
Tesla dropped by Mobileye for “pushing the envelope in terms of safety” - fabian2k
http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/09/tesla-dropped-by-mobileye-for-pushing-the-envelope-in-terms-of-safety
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electic
Most of Tesla's issues are with the name. Drivers assume this is a fully
autonomous driving system. This leads to big problems. I have seen videos of
drivers sleeping while the car drives itself down the highway.

A more appropriate name would be co-pilot.

~~~
mikeash
I never understood how the public decided that "autopilot" means a fully
autonomous system. I grudgingly admit that some people think this way, but how
did it happen?

~~~
maxxxxx
To me it clearly means that the system is autonomous while the autopilot is
on. What else should it mean?

~~~
mikeash
Real-world autopilots cover a wide range of pilot aids, down to something as
simple as a gyroscope mechanically connected to the rudder in order to
automatically hold heading. Most are more capable than that, but typical
autopilot features would involve holding heading, altitude (or rate of
climb/descent), and speed, or navigating towards a particular point. Fully
autonomous autopilots are extremely rare, and I'm not aware of any commercial
system where the pilot is allowed to ignore the airplane while the system is
engaged.

So, again, how did you get this idea?

~~~
throwaway729
_> So, again, how did you get this idea?_

Because, as JonnieCache pointed out, the colloquial definition of Auto Pilot
is more informed by entertainment than by the aerospace industry.

What's more baffling is why anyone would assume that the average person knows
what "auto pilot" means in an aerospace setting. I mean, why in the world
would that be common knowledge? In fact, I've seen enough bone-headed
assertions about collision avoidance capabilities of modern aircraft that I'm
pretty certain even people who think they know what auto pilot means, actually
don't.

FWIW you can test this by finding people outside of the tech echo chamber who
don't know what a Tesla is and asking them to describe the capabilities of a
car with an Auto Pilot.

~~~
mikeash
You're not answering the question, you're just repeating the basis of it.

 _I accept that people think it means it 's autonomous._ Stop repeating that
as if it were new to me. What I want to know is _why_ people think that.
"Because everybody thinks that, if you'd bother to ask them" is not an answer
to that question.

~~~
throwanem
"Because entertainment commonly portrays it as such, and few people are
familiar with the workings of pilot aids installed aboard commercial aircraft"
_is_ an answer to that question. Perhaps it is not one you like.

Perhaps also it is not one which is accurate. I'm not really familiar with a
lot of entertainment that includes this trope, which is not necessarily a
surprise; what _is_ a surprise is that TV Tropes, which is generally very
detailed on such matters, doesn't seem to have anything covering it, either.
That certainly suffices to inspire some doubt in my mind as to whether "oh,
it's just entertainment" is an accurate answer, or a just-so story.

~~~
mikeash
When I asked for examples in another comment, the replies (so far) have been
sci-fi movies. I'd hope that people aren't inferring real-world capabilities
from sci-fi movies, but they very well could be.

------
eganist
I mean, this doesn't really seem like the grandest news. It could've been
safely inferred based on the releases at the time:
[http://www.wsj.com/articles/mobileye-ends-partnership-
with-t...](http://www.wsj.com/articles/mobileye-ends-partnership-with-
tesla-1469544028)

> Mobileye said it would no longer provide its computer chips and algorithms
> to Tesla after a current contract ends due to disagreements about how the
> technology was deployed.

But it's good to have the exact reason Mobileye decided against renewing the
contract in writing. I'm still keen to see how Volvo's system ends up since
they (if I recall correctly) are the only car company which has so far
indicated they would accept responsibility for incidents caused by their
driverless system:
[http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-34475031](http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-34475031)
\-- hopefully this'll compel their engineering teams to focus more on safety
rather than MVP.

I do wonder whether both Tesla and SpaceX are seeing the issues they're seeing
because of the abysmal work-life balance at both companies. Great successes on
both sides, but there are increases in risks of catastrophic failure in
products from both companies which have already been realized. I'm sure work
life balance isn't the only reason, but it wouldn't surprise me if Musk's
inability to personally burn out isn't actually shared by the vast majority of
his engineers.

~~~
6nf
Volvo's stated goal is improved safety on the road, both for the car's
occupants and for other road users. Volvo are not adding sensors to make
driving more convenient, they are adding sensors to make driving safer. The
whole Volvo brand is built around feeling safe.

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the-dude
See also the fatal crash in China just popped up today ( crash is from january
) :
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12504888](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12504888)

~~~
TeeWEE
Wow is it me, or is that cleaning-car on the far-left lane of the highway not
being very dangerous by cleaning there with such a slow speed? In the
Netherlands the whole lane would be dis-allowed to drive on if there was work
going on there.

~~~
sixseven
Any slow moving vehicle on a high way is a hazard to other vehicles. Maybe
that's a normal thing in China, but definitely not in Toronto. Judging from
the video, the warning light from the cleaning truck was not sufficient even
for human driver.

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helthanatos
What will happen when "autopilot" turns off because the driver ignores
notifications? Could that cause more issues? It's good that the cars will use
sensors around them better, but turning off the assist function may have some
fatal bugs.

~~~
toast0
A vehicle without driver aids and with sudden loss of driver inputs would tend
to idle down the road until it hit an object sufficient to stop movement, or
ran out of fuel, or the engine stalled for some reason.

A better response to lack of driver input would be to come to a controlled
stop, preferably out of the traffic lanes (since other Tesla vehicles have
driver assistance technology which may not respond to a stationary vehicle in
the lanes)

------
huuu
In an interview George Hotz said he told Elon to drop Mobileye. George is
repeating how bad that company is.

So it seems not only Tesla thinks Mobileye can't keep up with safety. Others
noticed this too.

~~~
Grazester
"No matter how you spin it, (Autopilot) is not designed for that. It is a
driver assistance system and not a driverless system," Shashua said. This
implies that Tesla's customers were not using the system as designer and
possibly didn't want negative publicly of such affecting its business

The article never stated anything about Tesla dropping Mobileye either but
implied the opposite.

~~~
toomuchtodo
"According to a Tesla spokesperson in a statement sent to Electrek today,
Mobileye tried to convince Tesla to keep using its system for future
generations of the Autopilot, but when it became apparent that Tesla was
sticking to its new in-house system, which the company confirmed today is
called ‘Tesla Vision’, they threaten to discontinue supply of the EyeQ3 chip
to cripple the current version of the Autopilot."

The unreasonable demands Mobileye made are listed in the below article I
lifted the above quote from.

[https://electrek.co/2016/09/15/tesla-vision-mobileye-
tesla-a...](https://electrek.co/2016/09/15/tesla-vision-mobileye-tesla-
autopilot/)

------
rfreytag
Noted caption on photo "A hirsute Sebastian using autopilot in a Tesla Model
S." If this was said about a woman it would be sexist. Imagine if it said
"Good looking Mary ... etc." outrage would be reasonable and forthcoming.

I believe if we're going to be alert to sexism towards women we need to tune
up our antennae to all sexism and have simple and clear standards that have a
hope of applying cross-culturally.

I welcome your alternate views below. I am genuinely interested in learning
why you think I'm out of line here. :-)

~~~
mikeash
That's just because "hirsute" is considered to be an undesirable trait in
women, but desirable in men. Pick an adjective that's flattering to Mary and I
don't think anyone would care.

Considering that Sebastian is also credited for taking the photo, I'd
speculate he approved of the caption, or even came up with it.

~~~
rfreytag
Thank you for your reply. I think any body-reference to Mary where that wasn't
relevant (is hirsute relevant?) would be sexist and should be called out.

~~~
mikeash
I imagine that Sebastian is proud of his beard, or embarrassed, or both, and
wanted to call attention to it.

