
Homeowner forecloses on Wells Fargo office, becomes folk hero - gregory80
http://agentgenius.com/real-estate-news-events/single-homeowner-forecloses-on-wells-fargo-office-becomes-folk-hero/
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zdw
Anyone else think that nearly the entire financial industry is ready to be
replaced with a lot of very short shell scripts?

It seems to me that their value add is negligible compared to how they're
rewarded.

~~~
henryprecheur
You should show more respect to what other people do.

You're not the only one guilty of this, everybody tend to overestimate their
contribution to the world. How many times did you hear/read about a business
guy / manager saying that programmers are a disposable commodity? Saying that
"the entire financial industry is ready to be replaced with a lot of very
short shell scripts", you are acting exactly the same way.

Did you forgot about the dot-com bubble when the tech industry was the one
guilty of being over-rewarded for what was often was no value (pet.com)?

~~~
jbooth
As stated below, your general point is certainly true..

But what is the financial industry accomplishing today that they didn't
accomplish 25 years ago? As far as I can see, the most useful innovation has
been the ATM machine (which is indeed quite useful). The rest of it? Is the
economy running better? Does the financial system allocate capital more
effectively? If not, then why are they taking home so much more money?

I'm not going to argue that they're not smart -- they're plenty smart, I'm
sure there are a lot of people in finance who are smarter than me. It just
seems that those smarts have been applied towards rent-seeking and value
extraction rather than "building things people want".

~~~
jrwoodruff
I think the answer to that is they've made it a lot easier to borrow a lot of
money very cheaply. I'm pretty sure when my parents got a mortgage 25-some
years ago, the interest rate was around 18%. I wouldn't be able to afford my
house at that rate. I'm sure this same cheap money has helped finance many
people who build things, then helped them set up plants in China and Mexico as
well.

Whether cheap money is a good or a bad thing in the long run, I guess that has
yet to be seen.

~~~
jbooth
Well, mortgage interest rates are based on inflation plus a couple points so
the bank still comes out ahead. In the early 80s, inflation was around 10-15%,
hence an 18% mortgage. Now, it's more like 3-4%, hence a 5-6% mortgage.

Maybe they've made some bookkeeping and overhead improvements that allow them
to add a point less or something like that, but it's not like they had some
genius idea that allowed them to lower from 18 to 5.. it's just tracking the
inflation rate. (and/or the fed funds rate which is related to inflation).

(Side note: my ATM snark was stolen directly from Paul Volker, who was the guy
who stopped inflation in the late 70s early 80s by jacking up the fed funds
rate. Credit went to Reagan of course. Better hair.)

~~~
jimbokun
"Credit went to Reagan of course. Better hair."

Credit went to Reagan for selecting Volker and letting him do his job.

~~~
jbooth
Carter selected Volker.

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nhangen
I'm actually more impressed that the courts, even locally, didn't try to stop
him from pressing buttons and ruffling feathers. Bravo to the entire town.

~~~
Pooter
Don't kid yourself. In Philly, it owes more to the apathy of the courts than
any egalitarian motivations.

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hippich
Wait.. I am new to all this US legal stuff. So because bank did not response
to his letter, sheriff put bank building on sale? or I misunderstood article?

~~~
georgieporgie
I found it rather confusing as well. As I understand it, this is how it went
down:

1) He made a "Qualified Written Request" to Wells Fargo (W.F.). I don't know
exactly what the request was _for_ though. Presumably an explanation of
mysterious charges from W.F.

2) W.F. failed to acknowledge within 20 days and/or act within 60.

3) He filed a suit in small claims court regarding this failure to respond and
won by default, since W.F. failed to show up in court.

4) W.F. failed to pay the judgment (?), so he went to the Sheriff to have them
place a levy (fine) on Wells Fargo via (presumably) their property.

5) W.F. fails to pay the levy (??), so the property is put up for sale by the
Sheriff's department.

(I put question marks in all the areas where the article isn't clear)

Here's the first Google result for Sheriff's sale:
[http://www.hudclips.org/articles/what-is-a-sheriff-sale-
how-...](http://www.hudclips.org/articles/what-is-a-sheriff-sale-how-does-it-
work/)

It's basically a foreclosure, so the headline is only sort-of misleading.

~~~
MichaelApproved
I believe they did pay the judgment but didn't rectify the original QWR
request. I still don't understand how that allows him to foreclose on the
property though.

~~~
funthree
A levy is a legal procedure. It is the act of seizing property to pay for a
debt. Wells fargo didnt pay their legally obligated debt to this man, so he
used that (levy) legal process to go after their local office. It's very odd,
that's why it's a popular story

~~~
poet
It's not popular because it's odd, it's popular because these types of freak
situations happen to regular old homeowners all the time:
[http://www.jpmorganchase.com/corporate/Corporate-
Responsibil...](http://www.jpmorganchase.com/corporate/Corporate-
Responsibility/new-programs-for-military.htm). Only this time the tables have
turned and it's the bank that is getting foreclosed on.

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winternett
If your house is being foreclosed upon, look into filing a Lis Pends,
foreclosurefish.com has brilliant information on the process, Filing that
prevents most buyers from making bids on the house while you sort out your
case. Always save all of the paperwork you get from your mortgage company,
Hire a lawyer, don't file for Bankruptcy, Bankruptcy lawyers will tell you
that's your only option because they want your business, but that will put you
in financial jail for years! A lawyer can work wonders if they know what
they're doing, and they can also get your legal fees back. Its rough to get
laid off, but if you take hold of the situation, work on being marketable for
a job, and educate yourself about foreclosure, you'll recover.

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mryall
What does "forecloses on [an] office" actually mean? The article didn't
explain that to me.

From what I read, it sounds like the guy just won a court claim in local court
against WF, and got the Sheriff's office to concur that the company was
somehow in the wrong. I thought foreclosure was repossession of a house when
the borrower is in default?

~~~
dangrossman
Wells Fargo failed to pay the damages levied by the court. You can't just lose
a court case and not pay, not if you have assets at least. The Sheriff is
taking possession of their assets (the office) and selling them to pay the
claim.

~~~
krschultz
I don't know exactly how it works, but I had an uncle who had a large boat,
and was short around $10,000 on a bill to the yard it was located in. The boat
was worth around $80,000. He couldn't pay the last bit of the bill (well, $10k
worth) and the yard foreclosed on his boat. It ended up being sold for around
$40k. I'm not sure if the yard got its $10k and my uncle got $30k, or if the
yard got $40k and he got 0.

I do know that my (other) uncle owns a car repair business and has the towing
contract for the town police department. Whenever they tow abandoned cars, he
charges a daily rate. If no one steps forward to pay the bill, at some point
he can get the title for the car and own it. You would think people would
claim their cars, but in a lot of situations there is evidence in the car
(drugs, guns, etc) that the police take and then he ends up with a car on his
lot nobody wants to claim. Six months later, he forecloses on it and ends up
owning a car. Sometimes it can be a really nice car too.

So foreclosures/seizures/liens are not always banks evicting families that are
late on their mortgage, I just don't understand all the details.

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edkennedy
There's a bit more info, including more photos and a scan of the poster over
at the consumerist: [http://consumerist.com/2011/02/how-this-philly-homeowner-
for...](http://consumerist.com/2011/02/how-this-philly-homeowner-foreclosed-
on-wells-fargo.html)

~~~
troymc
A great line from that article:

"As a music event promoter, he says he's put up a lot of posters, but these
were the most satisfying he's ever hung."

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joseacta
This is a matter of statistics for Wells Fargo. Of all their clients, maybe 1%
do protest. The other 99% just go to the bank and pay the fees.

Maybe the other 99% doesn't even read the statements and just go and pay.

For them, it's all profits. Even paying this man and their attorneys to get to
a settlement doesn't make a dent to the revenue they're receiving of the other
99%.

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gregory80
RESPA ftw?

\--snip-- He learned about RESPA which allows a Qualified Written Request
(QWR), a letter that a loan holder can send to their mortgage servicer who is
legally obligated to acknowledge within 20 days and take action within 60
\--snip--

~~~
greenyoda
Why post this meaningless comment when you could have just looked it up on
Wikipedia yourself?

Real Estate Settlement Procedures Act: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RESPA>

~~~
jey
He said "ftw", not "wtf".

<http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ftw>

~~~
CWuestefeld
yes, but even reading it correctly, it was an empty comment that added nothing
to the conversation. It doesn't deserve those up-votes.

~~~
chops
A highlight is not an empty comment, but an effort to improve usability by
highlighting key elements.

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Evgeny
I think I don't quite get how the mortgage system works in the USA. In
Australia it is fairly easy to go to a competing bank or other financial
institution if you're unhappy with you current lender, discuss the terms and
maybe get a better deal, get a loan from the new lender and pay out the
outstanding loan with the previous lender. You may have to pay some fee for
paying out your mortgage too early, but it's usually not that huge.

Is this not possible in the USA?

~~~
jrwoodruff
Usually possible, but fairly expensive. Mortgages, at least here, are
generally not terribly simple... Loan origination fees, inspections, in
addition to possible early payment fees... usually several thousand dollars,
depending on the size of the loan. Also, many homeowners over here (probably
including the guy in this article) are underwater; that is, they owe more on
their home than it's worth, making it pretty much impossible to refinance.

~~~
caf
Is it really likely that he is underwater on a loan that he's been repaying
for seven years? Have valuations dropped that far?

~~~
waterlesscloud
They certainly have in parts of California.

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tjmaxal
So what can we do to help the situation?

~~~
IgorPartola
Don't get a mortgage from Wells Fargo. Better yet, tell them that you did not
and will not.

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megaframe
ok thats hilarious, well done sir

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RK
I think the moral of the story is: don't get an adjustable rate mortgage.

~~~
waterlesscloud
This didn't have anything to do with adjustable rates. Read it again.

~~~
RK
_A few years ago, he opens his mail to find a notice that his premiums are
doubling, requiring a $1,000,000 insurance policy in the event the home is
destroyed and needed to be rebuilt._

This sounds like a mortgage rate increase is in turn requiring a larger
insurance policy. Honestly it's hard to parse that sentence in a way that
makes sense to me.

~~~
ianferrel
I believe it meant that his insurance premiums were doubling due to a (new?)
requirement that his house have $1mil insurance.

I admit the article is incredibly unclear, but I don't see how an increase in
mortgage rate would result in increased insurance premiums.

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kolektiv
I can't resist it. I know pedantry is to be discouraged here, and I apologise
in advance. But... "a century old 6 bedroom 3 bath Tudor home" grates against
the part of my mammalian hind-brain responsible for breathing, basic motor
control and throttling estate agents. Downvotes will be sadly accepted.

~~~
zdw
When was the last time you were in a $180k house, built over 100 years ago?

The 6 bedrooms are probably all tiny <300 square feet, with closets that can't
hold more than 3-5 items of clothing.

I'd be surprised if the entire house was more than 2500 square feet.

This isn't a 6000 square foot McMansion like you're thinking it might be.

~~~
trafficlight
Exactly. In houses over a 100 years old (actually in houses built before
widespread electricity), most of the bedrooms were only big enough to
accommodate a bed, a nightstand and a chair.

My house was built in 1905 in a mining community. It was 2 bedrooms
originally. A queen bed wouldn't fit in either one. We ended up combining them
into one decent sized bedroom.

Before electricity, there was nothing else to do in a bedroom besides sleep.
No sense in making it bigger than it had to be.

~~~
shaggyfrog
Well... you can do _one_ other thing in a bedroom, even in 1905...

... I speak of whittling, of course.

~~~
idonthack
So that's what the kids called it in those days.

