
The Period Is Pissed - dkasper
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/115726/period-our-simplest-punctuation-mark-has-become-sign-anger
======
chrismonsanto
Comments here currently call this strange. I personally thought this was
common knowledge, and it's not a new thing, either. I own a large video game
IRC community and we've used periods for this purpose as long as I can
remember (since ~2001? it's a bit fuzzy...) "fine." is about as passive-
aggressive as it gets. TFA is spot on about line breaks being the new periods,
as well.

It's also a bit odd when people use capitalization beyond "I"\--one of the
best ways to tell newer users from older users.

I feel so weird dropping by, say, freenode, where the customs are so
different.

(EDIT: Since people here are mentioning age, for the record, I am soon to be
26)

~~~
CodeMage
I feel so old now. I always capitalize every IM or SMS I write and I try to
make the punctuation as correct as possible. By that I mean that I don't stop
at using the full stop as required, but also worry about commas, colons, semi-
colons and even dashes. I'm also "guilty" of having read "Eats, Shoots &
Leaves" by Lynne Truss and agreeing with it.

It's not fair that being almost 35 I should feel so old, is it? ;-)

~~~
gizmo
It's a mistake to think of "correct punctuation" as some sort of abstract goal
to attain. Communication is about making yourself understood, and punctuation
is a means to that end. When people expect a period to mean one thing because
most people use a period in that fashion then what do you accomplish by
defecting from that common usage?

In meatspace you can rely on nonverbal cues, online you cannot. So if we can
overload the semantics of a period and of capital letters to help compensate
for the lack of nonverbal communication, all the better. Full sentences and
proper grammar don't go away -- they just take on a different meaning. Clear
communication is hard enough as is, why complicate matters further by limiting
yourself to perfect sentences and lose out on the extra nuance?

~~~
bmelton
> why complicate matters further by limiting yourself to perfect sentences and
> lose out on the extra nuance?

My problem with that, and I'm sympathetic to both situations, but it seems as
though the rules of proper grammar have been replaced with new rules that are
_less_ expressive than the old rules.

Sure, if the community infers a period as hostile, then clearly, one
attempting to avoid seeming hostile would be wise to avoid using periods.
However, why is that the case? How did it get there in the first place?

Yes, I know it's been this way for awhile, but the editor in my soul won't
allow me to craft broken sentences, even where I know that they'll be more
effective at communicating. Yes, I acknowledge that's a problem of mine, but I
would argue that the bigger problem is that people are looking for more
expressiveness by arbitrarily assigning connotation to things that otherwise
bear none, while completely disregarding that there are ways to be more
expressive through regular old English.

~~~
gizmo
1\. NO.

2\. No.

3\. no.

4\. No

5\. no

Only number 2 is correct grammatically. You can expand the list with other
versions of no (nope, no-no) and with other punctuation (exclamation mark,
ellipsis). There are easily 20 different versions of "no" I can think of from
the top of my head. Clearly being able to pick the "no" that fits best is an
expressive advantage. I agree that there are ways to express yourself
precisely in correct/formal English, but it's a lot more verbose.

Language is really pliable. It's quite strange that "fuck no" offends only
puritans but "uhm... no." can set off fireworks with nearly anybody. I guess
we all just have to adapt.

~~~
humanrebar
> Language is really pliable. It's quite strange that "fuck no" offends only
> puritans but "uhm... no." can set off fireworks with nearly anybody.

I'd be more offended by the former than the latter, though I wouldn't be all
that offended in either case.

> I guess we all just have to adapt.

I agree, if by adapt you mean we can all just chill out a little and be better
listeners. I think the graph of grammatical and punctuation expectations is
growing a longer tail.

------
logfromblammo
I interpret the lack of capitalization and correct punctuation as a
sociopathic desire to undermine the very foundation of modern civilization--by
destroying written language as a medium of communication. So in a way, I am
pissed when I end a sentence with a period: I'm pissed at all the people who
can't be bothered to use one. And when I use colons and em dashes, that should
be interpreted as hate crimes.

~~~
RyanMcGreal
No.

------
valtron
I distinguish between chat/non-chat writing, and I don't use periods in chats.
For example, I'll usually say things like this:

    
    
      me> i'm gonna give up on GTA IV
      me> just can't get into it
      me> especially after playing V
    

Non-chat, this would look like:

    
    
      I'm gonna give up on GTA IV; I just can't get into it, especially after playing V.
    

I guess I find "chat writing" (period-less) more amenable to quick, back-and-
forth conversation.

~~~
mistercow
> I'm gonna give up on GTA IV; I just can't get into it, especially after
> playing V.

You know, I've always attributed the increased frequency of semicolons in the
writing of coders (my own included) to their commonness in programming
languages, but I wonder if period-aversion among the tech savvy is a factor as
well.

There's nothing wrong with using a period in that line instead of a semicolon,
yet I would probably punctuate it the same way if I were writing it. Periods
feel monotonous and final, and that can't be attributed to C-style languages
alone.

~~~
cookiecaper
A semicolon is different than a period in that it carries the connotation that
the adjacent clause is a continuation or modification of the idea introduced
by its immediate predecessor, not a separate thought (regarding the same
topic, lest a new paragraph begin).

I don't think it has much to do with the commonality of the glyph in code,
where ; usually represents a conclusion, not a continuation. It may simply be
that coders and/or internet-savvy readers have more exposure to writing that
utilizes semicolons and they obtain the habit by osmosis.

~~~
beambot
"Here is a lesson in creative writing. First rule: Do not use semicolons. They
are transvestite hermaphrodites representing absolutely nothing. All they do
is show you've been to college." \--Kurt Vonnegut

~~~
cookiecaper
Yes, I've heard this before. But I do find use for semicolons, and I
appreciate their use in works by other authors. Kurt Vonnegut is (was) not
obligated to use them.

And I've never been to college.

------
peterjmag
The article mentions it only briefly, but the usage of ellipses (or just long
strings of periods) in chat is even more fascinating to me. I once had a
freelance client whose mood I could gauge by the number of dots in her Skype
messages. Read this and try not to cringe:

    
    
        no... that's not what we agreed to.......
    

It almost felt manipulative. I always imagined her sitting across the table
from me, forcing an awkward silence in an attempt to make me renege.

So imagine my consternation when a friend of mine started using tons of
periods in her text messages:

    
    
        hey.... let's get a drink tonight..........
    

Interestingly, in her case, the extra periods apparently didn't mean anything.
As she later explained, "that's just how I text...... not sure why.."

Amazing how much emotional weight a simple dot can carry, even when it's not
intentional.

~~~
kens
I've wondered about the use of ellipsis in Hacker News comments, e.g. "That's
quite... unusual". I guess it's supposed to indicate that the writer had to
stop and think hard to find the right word, but I feel like there's some
semantic meaning I'm missing. Has anyone else noticed this?

~~~
grecy
I do this... sometimes.

I use it (I think) to indicate not only that I had to stop and think about
what word to use, but also to indicate that what I'm saying is my opinion or
thoughts on the matter.

When I'm stating something factually I never do it, but when you ask if I want
Pizza or Burgers, I'd say, hmmm.... Pizza sounds good :)

------
vezzy-fnord
I honestly had no idea this was a phenomenon and I'm part of the demographic
which is ostensibly supposed to be aware of these new nuances in texted
language.

I have a very inconsistent typing style when on IM or IRC, but I've never
really seen anyone respond differently because of subtle punctuation
differences like adding or omitting periods from the end of a sentence.

I don't deny that this is a real occurrence, but it seems quite ridiculous.
The "because [noun]" thing at least has practical use in conveying implicit
meaning through brevity.

------
sukuriant
Apparently, I'm strange in this (meaning HackerNews) group of people. I've
been an avid instant messenger for several years; and, while I consistently
try to have correct, or at least almost-correct punctuation in my instant
messages, as well as a love for the semi-colon, I tend to finish my instant
messages without a period.

I finish posts on message boards like this one with them; but, when I'm using
an IM client, then period follows this article's alleged usage of meaning
irritation or annoyance. Notably, this only applies to the last sentence in a
message and only when the messages are between 0 and 1 paragraph. I haven't
analyzed my own chat-style writing beyond a single paragraph, so I have no
comment around anything beyond that.

The people I know tend to be the same, as far as I know, ending sentences
without a period. We do often end them with things other than a period,
though, like exclamation points, question marks or a few other group-specific
symbols, such as emoticons, to make sure that it's known the message is ended
and it is of a particular tone. The period is just one of those tones and that
tone is almost always perceived as a sharp one, unless it is one of the group
that has a rabid dedication to the period-is-end-of-sentence style.

All of that said, the people I tend to speak with also tend to have strong
pet-peeves around they're/their/there, than/then and other commonly
misrepresented words. They also tend to demand that people spell out whole
words rather than using r for are and u for you, unless you're being ironic.
Punctuation is very important to us, we have just redefined the terminating
mark.

Language is interesting.

------
TelmoMenezes
There is another phenomena that appears related to this. Younger americans are
adopting an interrogative tone for sentences that are supposed to be
statements. I really enjoyed that restaurant? The salmon was really good?

I really noticed this in my German class. There are students from various
countries, and one of the students was an American girl in her early 20s. She
was a nice person, but you could really see people going through the "are you
telling me or asking?" confusion all the time. I think there's something
deeper going on here. I don't want to wax philosophical too much, but our
current culture appears suspicious of statements. As if uttering them is crass
in some way. I don't claim to understand why.

~~~
thesimpsons1022
that is just girls with valley girl accents. (sometimes guys) but it
definitely isnt all, or even most, young americans.

------
davidcollantes
I do not use short Internet "slangs." I type as correct as I can --which can
be difficult while using english, as it is not my mother tongue. The lack of
proper capitalization and punctuation irks me, it does not matter the medium.

My teenager child follows my path.

~~~
gohrt
1\. [http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/16722/why-does-
tywi...](http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/16722/why-does-tywin-
correct-arya-on-usage-of-mlord-and-my-lord)

Arya Stark: My mother served Lady Dustive for many years, my Lord. She taught
me how to speak proper--properly.

2\. "English" is capitalized.

------
bitslayer
Wow, that is strange. I must be old, but I sometimes interpret the exact
opposite: a sentence without a period must have a twinge of... bitterness?
sarcasm? lack of care?

It can seem very passive aggressive.

~~~
pantalaimon
not realy

------
EyeballKid
Penny Arcade have been running a public information campaign on punctuation
for a few years now...

[http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/07/07](http://www.penny-
arcade.com/comic/2003/07/07)

(and [http://www.penny-
arcade.com/archive/results/search&keywords=...](http://www.penny-
arcade.com/archive/results/search&keywords=mr+period/) )

~~~
jasonwocky
My personal favorite has always been:

[http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/09/02](http://www.penny-
arcade.com/comic/2005/09/02)

Definitely a pissed-off period.

~~~
sukuriant
above link is NSFW

Did not know that when clicked.

~~~
jasonwocky
apologies

------
ISL
The period is not aggressive. The period implies a complete thought.

~~~
BHSPitMonkey
You're confusing a spec with real-life implementation. The article is
discussing the latter. The study of linguistics is separate from the study of
language and grammar.

------
pr0zac
Why is this surprising? Punctuation's usage, rules, and meaning have always
had a history of differing based on context. The most obvious and similar is
the effect of punctuation in poetry.

[http://www.brigitsflame.com/litlib/stylistic-
suggestions/rie...](http://www.brigitsflame.com/litlib/stylistic-
suggestions/riesiel-punctuate-end.php)

------
talles
What I have noticed is that the period assumes a meaning, despite the
traditional syntactical one, depending on the situation.

On the article's example a period means an non-friendly way to answer (like
being 'pissed'). In other cases I've noticed that the period assumes the
meaning of talking seriously (since it's more formal to use it). In other
cases I've also seen having the meaning of sureness (like when we end a
sentence with the word 'period').

In a nutshell: the period has a meaning of _completeness_ ; what I've said
ended just there. In a informal conversation, where period is not required or
it's not traditionally used, using it acquires a meaning. And this meaning is
completely dependent on the people and the subject involved.

I love these subtle differences in the way we communicate. I'm not only not
against it, as many people are, but I also nourish it. It's more fun, more
clever to do this way. Why not to say it: more humane.

I love language hacking...

------
krstck
I don't think this is necessarily accurate -- you really need to have context
and history with a person to determine how they use punctuation to signify
tone. For instance, the person I most frequently text always uses punctuation,
while I rarely do. I think it also depends on how you were introduced to
messaging/texting.

------
chadwickthebold
Does the progress bar on the top of this page, which only shows up when you
are 75%+ through the article, bug anybody else?

~~~
pantalaimon
It's super pointless, it's just there 'because the web designer can' \- the
mouse follower and blinking gifs of our time, so to say.

------
jcutrell
I've always felt that the English language is somewhat ambivalent, but the
construction of the language via writing is not ambivalent. To complete the
idea, imagine how language is used. Certainly, we don't think in punctuation-
able sentences at all times - we think in streams.

However, when constructing a logical presentation of ideas, we would think in
more grammatically anatomically correct forms.

The implications of the writing are a form of protocol in my opinion, and as
any good protocol requires, must be interpreted to some standard.
Unfortunately, the complexity of the standard for the English language is far
and above the complexity for a given programming language, and we
unfortunately don't really have a linter for conversation.

Hyperbole, perhaps; but it's true at its core: people only receive meaning if
they have some sort of roadmap for the symbol and the symbolized.

------
shittyanalogy
Without the clarity of being able to hear someone's voice and see someone's
facial expression the mind finds ways of over interpreting what's written. On
top of that, there are individuals who interpret every little thing in your
text as a clue to your emotion and intent as if you had painstakingly crafted
each individual letter. Sometimes I use periods when I text, some times I
don't. Sometimes I spread a thought across multiple texts, sometimes I don't.
Sometimes I use emoticons when I text, sometimes I don't.

You can't count on any of these non-verbal and non-muscular artifacts as
reliable emotional or intentional clues. But you can certainly count on
yourself to find meaning in the meaningless.

None of this is to say that sometimes it doesn't happen, but sometimes it
doesn't.

------
mbarrett
I find this to be more true when using short phrased, singular thoughts. With
shorthand being more common in IMs and texts, a single period may be a
misinterpreted that they intend the entire conversation to end, not just one
message.

"k." being the worst offender imo.

------
axus
The context might change when using proper capitalization. A sentence that
changes one convention might change another.

A counter-example are the McDonalds billboards that have shown up over the
last year. They don't use capitalization, but still end with periods.

------
nmc
Interestingly enough, French diplomats use ./. (dot-slash-dot) as the period
character, when writing official notes or messages [1].

[1]
[http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_(signe)#Le_point_diplomat...](http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_\(signe\)#Le_point_diplomatique_..2F%2E)

------
davmar
related: times roman font has announced a shortage of periods as reported by
steve martin.

[http://www.newyorker.com/archive/1997/06/09/1997_06_09_110_T...](http://www.newyorker.com/archive/1997/06/09/1997_06_09_110_TNY_CARDS_000378543)

------
tjstankus
42 years old with an English degree. I. am. so. fscked.

------
Timmmmbob
The word is "addictive".

------
misterparker
Not always pissed.

Sometimes. just. emphatic.

------
ademarre
no.

