

U.S. teenager tortured in Kuwait and barred re-entry into the U.S. - yeahsure
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/01/06/kuwait/index.html

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mrr2
As a Somali, this person's life is likely absolute hell in Kuwaiti prison. The
Middle Eastern countries are incredibly prejudiced against people of Indian
Subcontinental and African origins as many come to the peninsula in order to
work on construction/menial jobs. Family friends (I am of Indian origin) have
horror stories of passports being confiscated, police blackmails, and blatant
racism.

Its truly sad that the U.S. has let a citizen be treated like this by a state,
especially a state where the U.S. has as much influence.

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myfoolishpride
A very sad story. I find it interesting that Bush is still brought up without
noting that the policy of rendition started under Clinton and was largely
replaced under Bush with Gitmo.

Also, calling Kuwait a puppet of the U.S. is a vast over simplification of the
situation. Though, the FBI agent and other officials who visited this young
man should be severely disciplined if they showed the disregard that is
alleged here.

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marze
Very sad.

Just a practical question, if someone is on the "no fly" list, does that
prevent them from flying in all countries? One would think not, so why
wouldn't that person be able to fly to Mexico then present their passport at
the border for reentry into the US?

~~~
yardie
You would think it works the way it is written but there have been a few
instances of flights being diverted even though they would never fly through
US airspace. And don't even think about flying to Canada, they are in lockstep
with the US as far as the no fly list is concerned.

For example, last year a flight from London to Mexico City was turned back
because a US citizen on the no fly list was onboard. Plane landed back in
London, the passenger was asked to leave, no argument, and the flight resumed
eight hours later. No one has been able to find out who he was and what
happened to him; arrested, cleared immigration, deported (where?).

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TeMPOraL
Isn't it true that an american citizen can not be banned from entering his
country and isn't that a constitutional law? I'm not from US, but I remember a
small media mess around a case, when TSA didn't want to let an american
citizen out of the airport (was mentioned on HN).

~~~
chrisbennet
Sadly, our US consitutional rights are have been severly abridged by the State
"in order to keep us safe". Rather than admit we are sliding into some sort of
police state, we try to rationalize that only the "bad" people are treated
unconsitutionally.

While a few brave souls stand up for their rights, the majority are too afraid
to. We submit to warrantless searches every time we fly (even if we know it's
pure ineffective security theater) lest we miss our flight.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Thanks for your answer :). But still, I'd like to know if it is a
constitutional right or if I misread it somewhere?

BTW. I heard a joke about current flight security policies in general (ie. not
specific to any country) that "you can board the plane with a fish in a bowl,
as long as you dispose of water before entering" ;).

~~~
drinian
(Disclaimer; I am not a lawyer, but I have studied the history of
Constitutional rights).

As far as I know, there's no specific right to _international_ travel in the
US Constitution, but the law and the courts have generally held that
withholding a citizen's ability to enter and exit the country should not be
used punitively.[0]

That being said, the First Amendment specifically protects citizens' ability
to petition the government for redress of grievances, as well as publicly
assemble.[1] I know that people have attempted to use that to establish a
definitive right to travel, as in _Gilmore v. Gonzales_ [2]. I don't know
whether they've had any success.

It's interesting that the Wikipedia page on citizens' rights doesn't have any
sources for their claim that all US citizens have the right to re-enter the
country [3]. However, I imagine that to deny someone right to entry would also
deny them their right to due process, specifically guaranteed under the Fifth
Amendment [4]. Heck, usually the government pro-actively tries to extradite
criminals back to the US...

[0]
[https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Freedom_of_mo...](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_under_United_States_law)
[1]
[https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/First_Amendme...](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution)
[2]
[https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Gilmore_v._Go...](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Gilmore_v._Gonzales)
[3]
[https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Citizenship_i...](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Citizenship_in_the_United_States#Rights)
[4]
[https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Fifth_Amendme...](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution)

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CWIZO
Warning: the page opens a video ad that starts to play automatically. I nearly
shat my pants, since I opened it in the background :)

~~~
nopassrecover
AdBlock Plus

~~~
srean
If you care for a different cure, then noscript. The developers of each had a
spat in recent times though.

~~~
nopassrecover
Wow I wasn't aware, but after reading this post:
<http://adblockplus.org/blog/attention-noscript-users> I'm honestly concerned
about using NoScript any longer.

//Edit: [http://hackademix.net/2009/05/04/dear-adblock-plus-and-
noscr...](http://hackademix.net/2009/05/04/dear-adblock-plus-and-noscript-
users-dear-mozilla-community/) The reply by NoScript was excellent. I feel
reassured.

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srean
Shocking! But my comment is about something else: the different presentation
style used by NYT and Salon.

The chances that I would have skipped over the NYT article is much higher than
I would have the Salon article. A picture makes a lot of difference, so does
"U.S. Teenager" versus "Detained American", and of course "torture" versus
"beaten".

~~~
sliverstorm
I think "torture" may be a little extreme. Are threats, beatings & lashings to
the feet & hands considered _torture_?

I mean, definitely not desirable or anything, but I always understood torture
to refer to the much more extreme. Otherwise we conclude schoolyard bullies,
police, and schoolteachers regularly engage in torture, though schoolteachers
have mostly ceased using canes for lashing.

~~~
srean
Prolonged beating of the soles of the feet, or phalanga as it is sometimes
called, is definitely torture. It has a _rich_ history. It is extremely
painful, primarily because of the abundance of nerve endings in the sole of
ones feet. It takes a long time to heal so the punishment effectively gets
extended over a long period of time, possibly permanent.

Conveniently enough it leaves almost no evidence.

Edit:A study on the effects of phalanga
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:_4_CVER...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:_4_CVER1g5YJ:www.irct.org/Admin/Public/DWSDownload.aspx?File%3D%252FFiles%252FFiler%252FTortureJournal%252F19_01_2009%252FLong-
term_consequences.pdf)

~~~
yeahsure
A friend of mine was in an orphanage in MX when he was a child. He suffered
from extended beatings on his soles (among other things like cigarette burns
and the like). I don't know if it's true, but he says he can't feel absolutely
nothing with his soles (ie No pain).

So yes, this is definitely torture, with permanent consequences.

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iwwr
For every story like this, there are countless that never get told, though
people in the Arab world are keenly aware of them.

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ScottWhigham
Sad tale, of course, but why is this front page news on HackerNews?

~~~
iwwr
When just the act traveling to a certain country makes you a target for
torture and imprisonment _by your own government_ , it would make one
uncomfortable, particularly as a person who would like to travel.

