
Lessons In Survival - why elite military forces bounce back faster - DTrejo
http://www.newsweek.com/id/184156/output/print
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mstevens
I'd be interested to read more about how much of the Special Forces difference
they're born with and how much you can train.

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Retric
_On the deck, the unconscious sailors are rolled on their sides, and as soon
as they revive, an instructor shouts again and again: "Are you gonna quit? Are
you gonna quit?" Sailors are given 30 seconds to answer or they're kicked out
of the program._

A lot their "training" seem designed to weed out those who lack specific
innate traits. From what I understand the goal is to cull most people as soon
as possible and then train those who remain which suggests they focus on
innate talents rather than testing people after they have been trained. Which
IMO is a good idea, because you don't know what you are going to face in the
real world.

PS: You see the same idea with a large high school's football camp. The first
few days is all about weeding people out based on physical fitness.

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chuckm
_A lot their "training" seem designed to weed out those who lack specific
innate traits_

I don't think it's entirely about innate traits. There's a lot of training
that occurs before going to some these schools. For example, in the Army
you're not eligible to 'try out' for Special Forces until you're an E4 grade
(not sure about officers), which may take 1.5 - 3 years to achieve, assuming
you enlisted as an E1. Even then a lot of guys spend 2-4 months in special
training programs before going and some don't pass until their second or third
attempt.

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run4yourlives
In other words, they're controlling for knowledge and training gaps. All that
remains is pure talent, really.

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SapphireSun
I wonder how many false positives and false negatives there are for the
monotonic heartbeat test. Could they skip putting the recruits through hell,
or do they learn enough from it that it would still be worth it?

~~~
gaius
It's all about unit cohesion. The psychology of it is well-understood. People
are afraid of failing so are reluctant to push their limits and expose
themselves to criticism from their peers. By putting everyone through an
ordeal together, everyone sees everyone else suffering, that barrier is broken
down. The benefits of this type of training go way beyond the military.

~~~
chriskelley
Put me with a perfect stranger and give us 80 minutes on the rugby pitch
together and it's mind-blowing how fast a deep friendship can form.

~~~
gaius
Yeah, strip everyone down to the basics, no pretences, no bullshit, and we're
all basically the same. Well, that's not true. There are those who are willing
to do this and those that aren't.

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jcl
As I was reading the article, I couldn't help wondering: Why doesn't everyone
have the same traits that the special forces people do? Unless there was some
huge downside, I'd expect evolutionary pressure to select for them. But it
wasn't until the end of the article that it gives a hint of a disadvantage:

 _Unfortunately, this metronomic effect is usually associated with early heart
disease and even sudden death. Morgan wonders whether the same thing that
makes you really good at surviving under high stress may not translate into
excellent heart health when you're 50._

~~~
skmurphy
From an evolutionary standpoint, anything that manifests above 40 has little
impact if it gives you better survivability younger. For most of human history
you will have already had your children and raised them to independence .

~~~
jcl
Good point. Which makes me wonder if there are further disadvantages beyond
the one mentioned in the article. Perhaps panic-suppression is actually a
disadvantage in most life-or-death situations? Or that it's such a desirable
trait in high-risk professions that people with it tend to enter these
professions and die young?

~~~
gaius
_Perhaps panic-suppression is actually a disadvantage in most life-or-death
situations?_

I've done offshore survival training, dive training and worked as a lifeguard
and one thing that's very obvious is that what usually kills people who get
themselves into a situation (that on paper they're equipped to deal with) is
panicking and/or refusal to accept the reality of that situation. Basically I
cannot think of a case in which a trained person would benefit from losing
control like that.

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christofd
(Btw - this is why i like HN. Trying to understand life, the universe and
everything in practical terms.)

Hmmm... yes, I wonder how much you can train stress resistance/ resilience and
how much is nature-given. I'm probably more of a sensitive type person, but
through ongoing training I've got myself to be able to endure lots of pain and
stress through willpower (well, it's more like I'm more numb and less
receptive than I used to be): doing martial arts since I was 6, resisting
groups in social situations and insisting on what I think is right (braking
peer pressure), occasionally engaging in physical fights (when I was younger),
and again various sports activities like long distance running, skateboarding,
mountainbiking, hiking etc. - IMHO it comes down to facing fear and pain on an
ongoing basis: NO FEAR. lol.

On another note, this is exactly why geeks are not in charge in most
corporations. Because they are not in any way as well trained as your average
jock to fight back against stress and pain. At least geeks can learn to live
with this inherent weakness and be aware of it.

