
Beto O'Rourke's membership in America's oldest hacking group - mpiedrav
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-politics-beto-orourke/
======
js2
He named his BBS "TacoLand". He should definitely play up this angle...maybe
campaign on a taco cart on every corner. I know people who will vote for him
for that alone.

This piece is a disaster. It's an excerpt from a soon to be released book,
it's light on facts about O'Rourke and is at least equally about Cult of the
Dead Cow, it's trying to make things sound more nefarious than they were, and
it's playing the guilt by association card. The only questionable activities
by O'Rourke are:

\- he dialed long distance without paying for it.

\- he used pirated software.

(Not that I'm defending this behavior, but so did I.)

And he wrote fiction that barely rises to the level of a really bad Stephen
King'esque short story.

That's it.

~~~
txcwpalpha
>it's trying to make things sound more nefarious than they were, and it's
playing the guilt by association card

Are we reading the same article? If anything this article seems like a
submarine PR puff piece to me, made to increase the image of Beto by making
him seem "cool" and "hip" by associating him with the typically-seen-as-sexy
"hacker" scene. This article is very similar to the pro-Beto stuff that was
all over Texas during his senate campaign.

~~~
eli
We are in a world where the exact same video of Beto skateboarding was posted
by both opponents and supporters and each saw what they wanted in it.

I would challenge the idea that being a “hacker” polls well for a presidential
candidate. Recall that “hacking” was a bit of a problem in 2016.

~~~
js2
Fox News: "Young Beto O'Rourke wrote 'murder fantasy' about running over
children, was part of famed hacking group: report"

CNET: "Beto O'Rourke has serious hacker credentials. The presidential
candidate was a member of hacker group Cult of the Dead Cow"

WaPo: "'Psychedelic Warlord': Beto O'Rourke's past life as a teenage hacker"
and "Beto O’Rourke’s hacking universe, explained."

Sources:

[https://www.foxnews.com/politics/beto-orourke-wrote-
murder-f...](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/beto-orourke-wrote-murder-
fantasy-children-was-part-of-famed-hacking-group-report)

[https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/beto-orourke-has-
seriou...](https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/beto-orourke-has-serious-
hacker-credentials/)

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/psychedelic-
wa...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/psychedelic-warlord-beto-
orourkes-past-life-as-a-teenage-
hacker/2019/03/15/f503f225-7223-449a-a2c3-715f6afb2f13_video.html)

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/03/15/beto-
orou...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/03/15/beto-orourkes-
hacking-universe-explained/)

~~~
micheljansen
I thought you made these headlines up to show how the same news might
hypothetically be presented by different outlets and thought you got them
pretty spot on. Then I saw the sources. What a sad world we live in.

------
gaze
Why are all the articles about Beto about how cool and antiestablishment he
is? Just absolutely nothing about what he really intends to do, how he intends
to do it, and most importantly, how do we reconcile his conservative voting
record with this contrary image he presents?

~~~
wybiral
> how do we reconcile his conservative voting record with this contrary image
> he presents?

Because a good representative represents their people. And as a Texan, I can
assure you that his left-leaning constituents weren't always the majority he
had to represent.

Any politician who blindly ignores a large segment of their constituents (even
the ones that didn't vote for them) isn't someone you want in office. I don't
have to name specific examples for you to know who I'm talking about.

~~~
JeremyNT
He represented an urban district which was overwhelming blue. Are you sure his
constituents were holding him back in this regard?

~~~
wybiral
Blue doesn't mean far left progressive. Being a Democrat in Texas isn't
necessarily the same as being a Democrat in a more progressive state. So
"blue" is an ambiguous term here.

------
busterarm
Having been involved in the community for most of my life, my very first
thought was "oh that's cool he's one of us" and then I remembered that
historically hackers have been phenomenally bad people to give any kind of
real power to.

~~~
dmos62
> historically hackers have been phenomenally bad people to give any kind of
> real power to

Do you have any examples?

~~~
txcwpalpha
Paul Leroux comes to mind. It also really depends on who you consider to be a
"hacker". To some people, Zuckerberg fits the description (though he is a
different type of hacker, moreso the "hacker" of "Hacker News"), and I think
most would agree he would be a terrible politician.

~~~
bitxbitxbitcoin
Was Leroux given power or did he take it, though? I'd posit that there may be
differences between hackers that are given power and "power hungry" hackers
that crave/seek/take power. There are then further differences between those
power hungry hackers that only operate legally and those that are willing to
do illegal things. I guess I'm just trying to say that Beto doesn't seem to be
trying to take power the way that Leroux did so the comparison may not be as
valid.

------
zinclozenge
I hope nobody uncovers the naruto fan fiction I wrote in my teens when I run
for political office.

~~~
Kurtz79
You joke about it, but it is kind of scary that some obscure tweet or facebook
post one did in their teens might be used against them when running for
(whatever) public office...

~~~
mikeash
We’re in a weird transition period where all this information is now available
but we’re not used to it yet. The illusion that people had a clean past is
still prevalent. I suspect that in another decade or two, we’ll finally
internalize the fact that everybody does stupid crap and nobody will care
about it anymore.

~~~
cbsks
Or people will realize that the internet is forever and will stop posting even
slightly controversially things publicly, unless under a pseudonym. My
generation may be the first and last to publicly post all of their stupid
teenage thoughts on the internet for anyone to dig up later.

~~~
pizza
I feel like it's more likely that someone will just automate private
intelligence gathering and sell it as "generating a reputation score for
job/relationship/political candidates". Like the social credit system in
China.

------
LMYahooTFY
My initial thought is this is quite provocative in the realm of federal
political campaigns. I can imagine some interesting one liners during his
future campaign, especially from the opposition, that will likely rile us all
up.

I enjoyed the story, and if any of it is legitimate and honest insight into
O'Rourke's inclinations then I'm interested to see more of his policy
proposals.

Furthermore, I think the article's point about O'Rourke's technical literacy
giving him an edge in obtaining support from the tech sector is interesting,
and if at all valid, potentially a huge factor. Not that this really needs
elaboration on HN.

In regards to the CDC, I haven't heard of any members ever being convicted of
a crime? I'm not confident enough to say it hasn't happened, but if so I'll
take any good light to bring to the hacker culture that we can get these days.

~~~
microcolonel
Unfortunately, he doesn't appear to have any actual policy platform related to
the presidential run; at least, the other day when I visited the site I saw
only merchandising.

~~~
LMYahooTFY
Is he late in this sort of thing? Is it typical for candidates to have their
own platforms put forth outside of the incumbent party platforms by this
point?

~~~
dragonwriter
> Is it typical for candidates to have their own platforms put forth outside
> of the incumbent party platforms by this point?

Most of the top tier (by current polling) 2020 candidates don't have much
beside donations and merchandising on their website yet; Harris has some
things that are at about the level of a stump speech and Warren has actual
issue pages.

Those currently in Congress (e.g., Sanders, Harris, Warren, Gillibrand,
Klobuchar) can (and do) signal platform positions concretely through sponsored
legislation, even they don't have issues pages on their website.

------
nabla9
\- Was member of a punk band

\- Arrested when sneaking into private property.

\- Member of cDc

\- Co founded a small Internet services and software company.

\- published an tiny online newspaper,

Any hacker born in 70's can relate.

~~~
writepub
Except for the actual hacking part. When everyone is a hacker, no one is. But
let's put facts aside, for Beto makes us all feel really good with the
inaccurate "hacker" moniker attached for political mileage.

I personally would love to anoint him with the "Doctor" moniker, for his
active contributions to WebMD.

------
shereadsthenews
If anyone can show that Beto has a hard copy of the Anarchists' Cookbook I'll
vote for him twice.

~~~
blang
What if he had the digital copy, stored on floppy disk?

~~~
Varcht
Then he is some compression wizard too!

Edit: I guess that could be read as plural...

~~~
tptacek
It was both a book and a series of tfiles. Most HPAV boards had copies. They
would not have come close to filling a floppy.

~~~
Varcht
To be fair, we had not and have not stipulated what we mean when we say
"floppy". Maybe you were a rich kid but a lot of us were still on some pretty
low density stuff into the late 80's. Embarrassingly, I was still on cassette
for most of the decade.

~~~
tptacek
There is no PC, Mac, or Amiga floppy drive that could not have held the tfile
Anarchist's Cookbook (the tfile cookbook is not the same as the book, which
fits easily on a single-density 3.5 but not on a 5.25).

~~~
Varcht
Anyways, Beto will always be a wizard in my book.

------
samirillian
Unfortunately, his politics are not nearly as progressive as his public
posture.

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/my-advice-to-
progres...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/my-advice-to-progressives-
dont-back-down/2018/12/14/b6e0bacc-
ffbf-11e8-862a-b6a6f3ce8199_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.66d9aad73c68)

------
ra7
He might just be the guy who understands technology, privacy and cryptography.
Or is that too much to ask for?

~~~
jlisam13
Andrew Yang knows about it, check him out
[https://www.yang2020.com](https://www.yang2020.com)

~~~
busterarm
Isn't this the guy that just said that within a generation white people will
be shooting up Asians?

I'm not sure how writing off a demographic of people not even born yet is
going to go for his campaign.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWQNiiC0AzA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWQNiiC0AzA)

~~~
indigodaddy
Yang is going to gain steam. Might give Kamala a run for her money. I
recommend you check out the Joe Rogan interview.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Yang is going to gain steam. Might give Kamala a run for her money.

While it's extremely early (though in most recent elections, the eventual
primary winner was at this point in first or second place, more often second),
Harris is only polling third (consistently, across polls) and is way behind
Biden (first) and Sanders (second, so arguably the most likely nominee).

~~~
SlowRobotAhead
>Sanders (second, so arguably the most likely nominee).

I wonderfully interested that you think the DNC would allow that to happen
after just two year of being shown explicitly that they will do whatever is
needed to make sure that does not happen.

~~~
dragonwriter
> I wonderfully interested that you think the DNC would allow that to happen
> after just two year of being shown explicitly that they will do whatever is
> needed to make sure that does not happen.

It's not the same DNC. While the Sanders faction didn't gain control after the
2016 election, they essentially got a power-sharing agreement and, more
importantly, they've gotten a bunch of reforms, including mostly neutralizing
the power of superdelegates. And Sanders is starting 2020 in a much stronger
position than 2016, and doing so without an opponent with anywhere close to
the establishment power of Clinton, whose partisans also were in charge of the
DNC at the time.

~~~
SlowRobotAhead
I don't at all agree. The DNC had a system to allow rigging, and I'd willing
to bet my lunch they still do. If they had a system of rigging - why do you
think they would give that up what would their incentive be to do that? They
didn't want Bernie then, they don't now, it's the same people in the
organization.

But... Because neither of us can possibly prove it. I guess we'll just wait
and see. I believe they just won't let him and they'll either do it by rigging
more subtly this time, or have Warren there only to split his votes. Either
way, it'll be more interesting than the "show" they put on last time with Webb
and Chafey bowing before Hillary.

~~~
djur
What "system" did the DNC have to allow "rigging"? How did it work? Who
operated it? What evidence is there that it existed, much less that it was
used?

~~~
SlowRobotAhead
Here is enough background information [0] [1] [2] [3] quoted directly from
people involved that should get you started. Unless Warren, Brazile, DWS and
others are all wrong with their statements about it.

[0] [https://www.foxnews.com/politics/donna-brazile-i-found-
proof...](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/donna-brazile-i-found-proof-the-
dnc-rigged-the-nomination-for-hillary-clinton)

[1] [https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/02/politics/elizabeth-warren-
dnc...](https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/02/politics/elizabeth-warren-dnc-
rigged/index.html)

[2]
[https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-b...](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-
brazile-hacks-2016-215774)

[3] [https://observer.com/2016/07/wikileaks-proves-primary-was-
ri...](https://observer.com/2016/07/wikileaks-proves-primary-was-rigged-dnc-
undermined-democracy/)

~~~
djur
Neither Brazile, Warren, nor any of the leaked DNC emails provide even the
slightest bit of evidence that any voting process was manipulated, any vote
totals falsified, or anything else of that nature. They also do not show any
evidence of any kind of adverse action against Clinton's opponents. There is a
compelling argument that DNC staff were too partial to Clinton, who they
viewed as the presumptive nominee. There is also evidence of animus against
the Sanders campaign, although that animus must be viewed in the context that
the Sanders campaign had previously _sued_ the DNC.

Party organizations involved in the primary process need to avoid even the
appearance of favoritism. The DNC under DWS failed in this, and it also
demonstrated other forms of unprofessionalism (such as passing around credit
card information in unencrypted email!). Cleaning house was necessary.
Furthermore, superdelegates had been a controversial issue in the last two
contested nomination contest, and were clearly perceived by a substantial
number of party supporters as undemocratic. Reforming them was also necessary.
But none of that changes the fact that there is no evidence of any form of
rigging of the nomination process.

If it's obvious there was some sort of corrupt manipulation of the process, it
should be possible to point to at least one single state where there is
evidence of electoral manipulation.

------
jak92
He's nice and all, but can we go back to electing Presidents who have had lots
of executive _and_ political experience ?

~~~
dvtrn
What, was being an elected congressman not enough?

~~~
dv_dt
Though some Presidents have served as house representatives in their past,
none of them made the Presidency without doing something else in between their
house service and winning the presidency.

[https://history.house.gov/People/Other-Office/Member-
Preside...](https://history.house.gov/People/Other-Office/Member-President/)

~~~
dvtrn
Still satisfies the stated refrain of "having political experience", but an
interesting historical factoid nonetheless.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Still satisfies the stated refrain of "having political experience”

The request was for candidates with “lots of political and executive
experience”, not merely some political experience.

------
spudlyo
I should probably start making my "Psychedelic Warlord 2020" lawn sign now.

------
arminiusreturns
CdC has always controlled a candidate in every presidential election... HN
needs to catch up.

~~~
saalweachter
Fun fact[1], Marco Rubio was also a member of cDc.

[1] Fun fact, did you know that some historical uses of the word "fact" are
more as an antonym to "opinion" than as a qualification of a statement's truth
value?

------
kbenson
Woah, the name of his band when he was younger is reported as "Foss". Given
his membership in the Cult of the Dead Cow, I wonder if it's actually FOSS...

~~~
shereadsthenews
Foss was not in the lexicon in 1989.

------
RickJWagner
"When he was younger, he was arrested on drunk-driving charges and played in a
punk band. Now 46, he still skateboards."

Funny how the combine a very bad thing with some cool things as counter-
weights. I'd have more faith in the objectivity of the article if they
mentioned that O'Rourke actually put people's lives in danger, hit a vehicle,
and tried to leave the scene. [1]

[1]
[https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/politics/texas/article...](https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/politics/texas/article/Police-
reports-detail-Beto-O-Rourke-s-1998-13195088.php)

------
VectorLock
This is good advertising for a book on the cDc that I never would have known
about otherwise.

------
donohoe
My respect for Beto just moved up a notch!

------
giardini
Reuters shelved the 'Buff My Balls" (Beto's own poetry) hacker story until
after the 2018 Senate race:

[https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-17/reuters-shelved-
bu...](https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-17/reuters-shelved-butt-shine-
beto-hacker-story-until-after-2018-senate-race)

------
ds
Isnt 2600 older than CDC?

~~~
Famicoman
2600 isn't a hacking group, it's a publication that has meetups.

Both 2600 and cDc started in 1984, however. LOD did too.

~~~
Pokepokalypse
2600; do you even crunch?

------
hugh4life
Reminds me of this old story... couldn't believe it was 10 years old when I
googled it.

[https://torrentfreak.com/warez-leader-is-chairman-of-san-
die...](https://torrentfreak.com/warez-leader-is-chairman-of-san-diego-
republican-party-080502/)

------
bitlax
Does the Homebrew Computer Club not count?

~~~
Famicoman
I feel like the author should have said "longest running," but sensationalized
it a bit instead. I'm sure there were many hacker groups before 1984.

------
merlincorey
I'm a little late to the party, but...

For anyone interested in finding writings by "Psychedelic Warrior", here's a
search you can use to get started:

[https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&&q=site%3Atextfiles.c...](https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&&q=site%3Atextfiles.com+"by+Psychedelic+Warlord"&btnK=Google+Search&oq=site%3Atextfiles.com+"by+Psychedelic+Warlord")

------
cabaalis
Wow, I used to read the Cult of the Dead Cow's stuff when I was a kid, mid-to-
late-90s. Still won't be voting for Beto, but that is cool.

------
droptablemain
Oh ok. He's got my vote.

------
gorpomon
This just makes me like him more.

------
i45fyerhfmt
> I fear we will always have a system of government, one way or another, so we
> would have to use other means other than totally toppling the government (I
> don't think the masses would support such a radical move at this time).

------
koboll
His band was called 'Foss'? Amazing.

EDIT: Found elsewhere where he claimed it was called that because it's
Icelandic for 'waterfall'. But now I'm thinking that was a cover story.

~~~
dagw
Using the term "FOSS" when talking about software is fairly new. I'd very
surprised if the term existed before the late 90s.

------
humbfool2
It's better to have a leader who has an understanding of how things work
rather than electing a leader who pretends to know everything and doesn't
think global warming is real.

------
writepub
With Elizabeth Warren's bonafide native american roots, and Beto's hacker
cred, I'd say we're witnessing a very honest, salt of the earth campaign by
the Democrats.

------
busterarm
What a time to be alive

~~~
throwaway427
Hahha TRULY.

I loved reading the CDC growing up. That one of them is a serious presidential
candidate now is truly making my day. I'm almost in tears laughing at the
idea.

------
dmode
What ? I didn't think Beto could be more cool after his punk band and
skateboarding "scandals". I really really hope he wins the nomination.

------
tzhenghao
Oh my, just imagine one of us running for president, and someone found out
we're part of "Hacker News".

------
KorematsuFred
In 2019 I expect this to actually work in his favor than other way around.

------
linkmotif
Was anyone about to glean from this whether Beto is 1337?

------
ratling
I don’t believe this. The GOP is desperate to discredit him because he puts
Texas into play a couple years early. This smells like a weak hit job.

I’m not sold as Beto as the candidate but this is a weak meme. 2/10 be best.

~~~
pnw_hazor
If Beto had an R after his name instead of a D, you’d hear he was boarding-
school-attending judge’s son who dodged serious charges for the DUI &
burglary, used eminent domain to gentrify poor Latino neighborhoods & married
into a billionaire’s family.

[https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/brace-
yourse...](https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/brace-yourselves-
for-betomania/)

~~~
acdha
The author of that piece is desperately trying to push the discrimination
narrative, hoping nobody looks outside of the bubble long enough to question
it. Anyone who wasn’t completely tuned out during 2018, however, will question
it because it got so much coverage during the campaign — I mean, the DUI was
such a secret that he spent a fair amount of debate time talking about it.

------
huvaxet
Since when hacker news promotes political threads?

------
pteredactyl
So he's a criminal. Great. I don't care if he skateboards, hacks, smokes,
whatever.

What concrete results has he delivered?

------
arbitrage
Wonder what his handle was.

~~~
puzzle
"Psychedelic Warlord"

Well, at least he didn't turn out to be Satoshi. That would be one of the few
ways to top this.

~~~
gknoy
On the bright side, the Secret Service are one of the few organizations I'd
trust to keep one safe if one were Satoshi. ;)

------
efficax
thanks. i hate it

------
zxcvvcxz
Isn't this the guy who wants to dissolve the border between Texas and Mexico?
Jesus.

Here's the difference borders make: check out Nogales Mexico vs. Nogales
Arizona -

[https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/travel/nogales-arizona-
me...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/travel/nogales-arizona-mexico-
border.html)

It's not race or genetics or even culture. It's the institutions separated by
country borders that let almost otherwise identical cities have radically
different outcomes.

~~~
BryantD
Hey, I may have missed something -- do you have a cite for the claim that he
wants to dissolve the border?

~~~
dumitrupetrov
Here one: [https://www.dailywire.com/news/43514/tear-it-down-beto-
orour...](https://www.dailywire.com/news/43514/tear-it-down-beto-orourke-
wants-knock-down-ryan-saavedra)

google it, there's a video.

~~~
BryantD
That's to be a video of Beto arguing that walls should be torn down. I'm
asking about this claim that he wants to dissolve borders.

------
cazum
So what?

If anything all this does is show that being an old school hacker doesn't
prevent you from becoming an ineffectual small-r-republican with a donkey pin

[https://www.vox.com/policy-and-
politics/2018/12/21/18150359/...](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-
politics/2018/12/21/18150359/beto-orourke-voting-record)

~~~
dumitrupetrov
You mean Democrat?!

------
antibland
Beto has taken more donations from oil and gas companies than any other
Democrat. The only politician who's taken more is Republican Ted Cruz. His
vagueness on many issues is partly due to how beholden he is to his donors.

~~~
BookmarkSaver
He was almost a victorious Senate candidate in Texas, and it's no coincidence
that the other person with the most was his opponent. Context matters.

~~~
dragonwriter
> He was almost a victorious Senate candidate in Texas

“He needed the fossil fuel money in order to almost (but still not) win his
one campaign for statewide office” is probably not a defense the O'Rourke camp
would be well served by when the issue, inevitably, arises.

~~~
allemagne
To be clear, we are talking about donations from _employees_ of the fossil
fuel industry, who are just as much citizens and constituents as anyone else.

When I donate to political campaigns as a private citizen who happens to be
employed by a software company it does not suddenly make the campaign I
donated to a shill for tech companies.

~~~
dragonwriter
> To be clear, we are talking about donations from employees of the fossil
> fuel industry, who are just as much citizens and constituents as anyone
> else.

The usual approach to reporting political donations by firm/industry uses only
PAC funds from corporate PACs controlled by firms in the industry, but
OpenSecrets aggregates PAC and individual employee donations, which it
justifies on the basis that “[o]ur research over more than 20 years shows a
correlation between individuals' contributions and their employers' political
interests and we have also observed that the donors we know about, and
especially those who contribute at the maximum levels, are more commonly top
executives in their companies, not lower-level employees.” [0]

In any case, I've been commenting on the _political impact_ , not the merits,
of the donations wet his candidacy.

[0]
[https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/methodology.php](https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/methodology.php)

------
pseudolus
The hacking is much ado about nothing but apparently the New Yorker has dug up
some past associations that raise serious questions about O'Rourke's youth:

[https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/beto-
orourke...](https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/beto-orourke-
rocked-by-scandal-as-high-school-mixtape-appears-to-include-reo-speedwagon)

