
How the Library of Congress Unrolled a 2000-Year-Old Buddhist Scroll - sohkamyung
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/gandhara-scroll-library-of-congress
======
hprotagonist
By 2016 we had figured out how to take very high resolution microCT scans of
things with ink on them and "unroll" them virtually. This was successfully
used to read text from a scroll that had been turned into a column of charcoal
in a fire. The ink is different enough from the parchment, even when both are
partially combusted, to make the technique work.

Figure 1 is ... striking:

[https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/2/9/e1601247](https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/2/9/e1601247)

[http://www.sci-news.com/archaeology/en-gedi-scroll-
deciphere...](http://www.sci-news.com/archaeology/en-gedi-scroll-
deciphered-04216.html)

~~~
habi
Hey! Is 'we' you who has presented this at the Bruker User Meeting? I'm the
guy who presented the zebrafish gills story this year :) Your work with
virtually unscrolling the scrolls is amazing, keep on trucking! Have a good
day!

~~~
interactivecode
Come on, you can't mention zebrafish gills without actually telling the story!

~~~
dredmorbius
Based on username and DDG, I suspect:

[https://www.bruker.com/fileadmin/user_upload/8-PDF-
Docs/Micr...](https://www.bruker.com/fileadmin/user_upload/8-PDF-
Docs/Microtomography/UserMeeting/2019_UM_Presentation02_Haberthuer.pdf)

~~~
habi
Exactly, nice search engine fu :)

Here's a bit more information:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21782922](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21782922)

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ArtWomb
I love digital archaeology. Literally spent an afternoon recently watching a
"virtual unwrapping" of the Herculaneum Papyri found in the ashes of Mount
Vesuvius ;)

Reading the Herculaneum Papyri: Yesterday, Today, and Tomorrow

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-7-Xg75CCI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-7-Xg75CCI)

Digital Restoration Initiative @ UKentucky

[http://www2.cs.uky.edu/dri/](http://www2.cs.uky.edu/dri/)

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virtualwhys
> Finally translated, the final scroll has no title, beginning, or end

How apropos wrt Buddha's non-teaching. Given more time (decay) the teaching
would be fully revealed :)

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irjustin
I love this. The thing that got me into conversation/restoration was the
Baumgartner Restoration[0] youtube channel which lead me to the conserving a
michelangelo [1] by The Met from there I just kept going.

Of course, this is another level in fragility and love the care, precaution,
and respect these teams place into preserving pieces, meaning and
understanding of history.

[0]
[https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvZe6ZCbF9xgbbbdkiodPKQ](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvZe6ZCbF9xgbbbdkiodPKQ)
[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-7BKDfaZpg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-7BKDfaZpg)

------
spodek
Ironic to work so hard preserving something from a tradition based on
impermanence that says if you meet the Buddha to kill him. Not that there's
any reason not to preserve it.

~~~
roland00
Sigh that "Koan" is not literally about killing the Buddha. It is recognizing
the divinity is not in an idol or image, including other people. That strand
of Buddhism says enlightenment is first found within, and after you find it
you see it also in the external world, not in a specific form but you see it
everywhere.

Most likely that Koan comes from Linji Yixuan aka 1600 years ago, but Buddhism
is likely 2400 or older years ago.

\-----

Linji Yixuan also has another saying "If you meet your forefather, kill him"
once again this is not literal but is once again excessive reverence to other
relationships instead of finding family in all things not just a specific
forefather.

A similar statement would be Jesus Christ in the Gospels such as Luke saying
you can't be his follower if you love your father, wife, children, siblings,
etc more than him. Jesus demanded you love him more than you love your own
life, and your duty to his faith is greater than your traditions saying "I
must wait" to follow you for first I must bury my dead father and so on. [Once
again it is probably not supposed to be taken literally for the Gospels choose
certain metaphors for dramatic effect about how one organizes ones
priorities.]

~~~
Pigo
I never thought about the similarities before, that's an interesting point.
You always hear about how the Bible is a collection of many different genres
of writing, some which no longer exist, so it's confusing to people with no
point of reference. Song of Solomon, for example, is just hilarious if you
think of it as a detailed account of actual events and people. These concepts
were probably spreading across cultures for so long before being deposited in
a book or scroll.

------
yousifa
Is there an english translation of this?

Edit: translation is in this video starting at 18:35
[https://www.loc.gov/item/webcast-8586/](https://www.loc.gov/item/webcast-8586/)

~~~
est31
[https://blogs.loc.gov/loc/2019/07/now-online-the-gandhara-
sc...](https://blogs.loc.gov/loc/2019/07/now-online-the-gandhara-scroll-a-
rare-2000-year-old-text-of-early-buddhism/#comment-1660432)

Edit: also found this:
[http://ancientworldonline.blogspot.com/2019/07/gandhara-
scro...](http://ancientworldonline.blogspot.com/2019/07/gandhara-scroll-
online.html)

~~~
yousifa
thanks!

------
jspash
I love this type of thing! In today's age of digital impermanence, to think
simple birch bark can preserve a message from so long ago.

But one thing that stood out from the beginning of the article and wasn't
satisfactorily addressed was the fact that breathing on such a fragile object
could wreck the entire operation...why didn't they just wear surgical masks?

I mean, they went through all the trouble of pre-humidifying the scroll,
laying special little glass paper-weights and even spraying each bit when
necessary. But a single unexpected cough or sneeze could have made everyone
have a very bad day!

~~~
Double_a_92
I guess they probably did... the explanation with the breathing is just to
show how fragile it really was.

------
mandelken
> In 2005, conservators received the scroll in a Parker Pen box on a bed of
> cotton.

Surprisingly light on details of its origin. Part of the US war loot from
Peshawar perhaps?

~~~
pvg
You can google it, the 'perhaps' seems completely unwarranted.

 _The Library purchased the single scroll from a British antiquities dealer in
2003._

[https://www.loc.gov/item/prn-19-073/?loclr=ealn](https://www.loc.gov/item/prn-19-073/?loclr=ealn)

------
RenRav
So the moisture made it flexible enough to unravel? It looks amazing I can
hardly tell it is so old. Like in old paintings where you can see the
brushwork and feel some connection to the artist long after they have passed
away, I think there is something similar here with the characters plus the
doodle in the center.

------
kickopotomus
The author mentioned that the conservators used bamboo spatulas a couple of
times. Is there a particular reason that they use bamboo versus some other
type of wood or perhaps metal?

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pbhjpbhj
I've previously looked for Buddhist artefacts (not too hard though) and not
found any from before CE. Is this the oldest direct evidence of Buddhism?

~~~
Mediterraneo10
There is epigraphic evidence (the inscriptions of the Emperor Ashoka) for
Buddhism in BCE times.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
I'd looked at that but understood that the Buddhist parts were from 200CE,
added to dharma inscriptions from 300-200BCE. Thanks for sharing, do you know
other BCE sources?

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kingkawn
Feels like a desecration

~~~
staplor
I disagree. What's the point of having a scroll if you are unable to read it?
Now it is in a form(digital) to last another thousand years.

~~~
kingkawn
Because it is an object from our ancestors. And the digital form will probably
be destroyed long before you imagine since it’s accessibility is dependent on
an industrial system remaining stable enough to deliver it

------
dredmorbius
In some of the recent discussion of archival (see the Internet Archive /
Archive Team and projects including Yahoo Groups, Google+, Flikr, and more),
is the nature of past historical archival.

 _Records are in general scarce._ They're special. They're _highly_ skewed in
what, who, where, and when they cover.

This affects traditional history and historiography which are document-
centric, in that their scope is _limited by available documents_.

(There are other models and methods of history, some of which approach
anthropology in looking at physical artefacts, some based on genetics and
other methods. These are illuminating as well, though of necessity omit
specific textual context.)

That situation has changed, due to improvements in media, reproduction,
literacy, and now, raw data capture. The rate, quantity, and _intention_ of
recording is completely different today than 500, or 1,000, or 6,000 (the
origins of writing) ago. Then, both recording and storage were highly
_intentional_ , for all that implies. Now, it's _avoidance_ of leaving records
that is intentional.

I'm a fan of the Internet Archive's work. I'm also cognisant of the potential
risks and intrusions that it implies. The Archive tries to make such negative
disruptions as small as possible, but the challenges remain.

