
My visit to American Apparel - peter123
http://venturehacks.com/articles/american-apparel
======
ojbyrne
[http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_26/b3939108_...](http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_26/b3939108_mz017.htm)

'But BusinessWeek spoke with seven former workers who say they were offended
by what they called a highly sexual atmosphere at American Apparel. They told
stories of senior managers who pursued sexual relationships with less senior
colleagues and rewarded their favorites with promotions, company cars, and
apartments. "It was a company built on lechery," says a former stock person.
"I thought it was a male contemporary perspective on feminism, but it turns
out to be just a gimmick," says another ex-employee. And another: "I made sure
to stay away from the store when I knew [Charney] was coming into town. It's
not one person -- he's aiming for all women.'

I generally have little patience with these kinds of feel-good PR-ish stories.

~~~
josefresco
The negative Business Week article you referenced is doing the same thing as
the source article, just the other way around. We can cherry pick negatives
all day long, and the other side can do the same with positives.

Take the lessons learned from AA and make your company better. Just because
Charney is a little nutty doesn't mean the entire company/model/approach is
bad. In fact I think the business world could use more people like Charney
with an open mind and free (if not overly-sexual) spirit.

~~~
blurry
Forcing sexual relationships on people who work for you (or forcing a reporter
to watch you have sex and masturbate) is hardly "overly-sexual".

You said yourself that AA workers could not get the same money anywhere
else... surely you don't think it's acceptable for Charney to ask his
employees for sex in a situation where (according to you) he has so much
power?

In general, I think good/legal vs. bad/illegal behavior is not just a simple
sum of its parts where, say, 3 good deeds outweigh 1 rotten deed by 2. After
all, when your neighbor turns out to be a child predator, are you going to
say, oh well, that's ok because he's been a good church-going fella for the
past 30 years?

~~~
sethg
If the sexual-harrassment allegations are true, then I hope the folks being
harrassed get vindication in court and appropriate compensation for their
damages. But I don't think anyone is arguing that AA is making lots of money
_because_ the boss sexually harrasses female workers. And even if you weigh
AA's management in your moral balance and find it wanting, you can still learn
something from the non-repulsive things that the company does.

If your high-school calculus teacher turns out to be a child predator, that
doesn't invalidate everything you learned about calculus.

~~~
blurry
Did you read the article?

 _Charney doesn't deny taking part in any of the activities described in the
article._

How is it an allegation when the guy himself admits it was true?

And sorry but your argument is typical straw-man. Of course I don't claim that
all apparel ever manufactured disappears out of existence now that we found
out about AA's lack of ethics. What's the point of assigning me a clearly
retarded point of view just so you can refute it?

Obviously I don't think that it would invalidate an entire branch of
mathematics if I found out that my calculus teacher was a pedophile. However,
I would strongly object to an article profiling a him as ethical and using him
as an example for others to follow, which is what the original post is doing.

~~~
dreish
You seem to be approaching this article, and the comments about it, as some
sort of effete referendum on whether American Apparel is a good company.

Nobody here cares about American Apparel. In the context of news.yc, this
article is only interesting in what lessons it might hold for other
entrepreneurs. As has been said before, there are undoubtedly positive lessons
and cautionary lessons.

------
mattmaroon
I think he says:

"This should embarrass the heck out of any executive who thinks he has to
outsource in order to find cheap labor. Or at least call into question his
fundamental competence as a leader. If American Apparel can manufacture low
margin clothing efficiently enough to beat the sweatshops (in California no
less), then anyone should be able to. If they try hard enough."

I think he's misunderstanding why their business model works. Sending your
commodity product to China to be make extra-cheaply is one strategy. Building
a high quality product that proudly displays it's Made-In-America-ness and
tugs at our patriotic heartstrings while charging 2x the price as the Chinese-
outsourced competition is another. There is room, in almost every industry,
for both a Kia and Lexus.

And you do have to outsource to find cheap labor. $12-$15/hr with full
benefits is not cheap for a factory. I'm guessing he just misphrased what he
meant on that one.

~~~
nivi
Thanks Matt, it is poorly phrased. I will change it.

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dmv
I'm being prompted for a twitter account and password when loading that page.
Anyone else?

Looks like it is this script:
[http://twitter.com/statuses/user_timeline/venturehacks.json?...](http://twitter.com/statuses/user_timeline/venturehacks.json?callback=twitterCallback2&count=5)

Seems a little rude. I don't like a generic dialog box popping up asking for
my credentials to an unrelated site...

~~~
nivi
Hi dmv,

Are you still having a problem? Sometimes the Twitter widget in the sidebar at
<http://venturehacks.com> gets a little wacky. I believe it is an intermittent
problem with Twitter.

I thought it was _very_ rare but perhaps it is more common than I thought? Is
anyone else having this problem? I couldn't recreate it. Thanks!

------
blurry
I am sick of stories of how American Apparel is such an ethical company
because they pay above minimum wage and make their clothes in the US.

Yes, the clothes are manufactured in LA and the workers get above minimum
wage. However, at $25,000/yr that doesn't put them anywhere _near_ a livable
wage, and the fact AA makes and promotes what is essentially child porn far
outweighs any benefits.

This guy said it best (with actual photos):

[http://www.cracked.com/blog/american-apparel-ads-make-me-
wan...](http://www.cracked.com/blog/american-apparel-ads-make-me-want-to-
defile-things-i-shouldnt-want-to-defile/)

~~~
fallentimes
American Apparel's just marketing towards the people who hate outsourcing and
think buying "Made in America" is important. Most people fall for it; some do
not.

A better question: why is an American more entitled to a job than someone
living in another country? The problem with most of the outsourcing arguments
I've heard is that they come down to value judgments.

~~~
potatolicious
I think the most cogent (and only) argument for nationalistic job
protectionism is the fact that others are doing the same thing. If other
countries are reluctant to export their jobs to you, you would obviously avoid
exporting jobs to them in the vain effort to keep employment in your country
alive.

I do agree though - I dislike the "Buy American" argument. Other countries are
out-doing us in many industries; instead of pledging allegiance to buying
inferior goods and services, we really should be fighting back by innovating
and simply _making our stuff better_.

~~~
opticksversi
_If other countries are reluctant to export their jobs to you, you would
obviously avoid exporting jobs to them in the vain effort to keep employment
in your country alive._

Why might one want to keep employment in his country alive?

~~~
jimbokun
Eliza, is that you?

~~~
opticksversi
This one?

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA>

No.

------
cpr
Just have to say, "T-shirts are underwear."

(Watch this get downmodded out of oblivion.]

------
brandonkm
American Apparel is an amazing company.

'A 5,000 person, $500 million low margin clothing company, operating from a
single factory in the least business-friendly state of one of the highest
"cost" manufacturing countries. Beating the overseas sweatshops and still
growing rapidly.'

/article

------
nazgulnarsil
I tend to ignore any news story whose aim is breeding righteous indignation.

vote with you dollars, not a gun (courts and legislation).

------
mwerty
I'm embarrassed that I got past the first two paragraphs.

------
utsmokingaces
Have you seen their clothing? They are bland and tasteless. They are wal-mart
clothes for 3x the price.

Having "American" in this brand will make countries laugh at how
unsophisticated we are.

You are going to make something in America at least make something good like
New Balance. We don't care to known for making neon green tights.

~~~
gamache
"Bland and tasteless"? What exactly are you expecting from a T-shirt? I
appreciate that there is a manufacturer of cotton casualwear which _does not
feature logos_. I don't want to pay for the privilege of wearing a billboard.

And on the "make something good" tip -- AA makes the highest quality and best-
fitting T-shirts I have ever found. MILES ahead of the crap on sale at
Walmart. And they do it in America, so they've earned the right to put it in
their name.

Company politics and alleged lechery aside: they make a damn fine product,
without cutting corners.

~~~
utsmokingaces
Having a logo or not has nothing to do with the fact AA looks ugly as hell.
Many great clothing brands do not show their logos on some of their clothes.

"I don't want to pay for the privilege of wearing a billboard."

Your are paying $20 for a plain grey t-shirt. You don't think you are paying
for the AA billboards that are everywhere??

~~~
gamache
_Having a logo or not has nothing to do with the fact AA looks ugly as hell._

Again, I am not sure what you want from a T-shirt. AA shirts fit me great --
better than any other manufacturer. What is ugly about a T-shirt that fits?

~~~
utsmokingaces
I wrote "Have you seen their clothing? They are bland and tasteless." Not
t-shirt.

I'm glad you are satisfied with your plain $20 t-shirt
[http://store.americanapparel.net/men-short-sleeves---
t-shirt...](http://store.americanapparel.net/men-short-sleeves---
t-shirts.html) based on it's fit and comfort.

In my subjective view, it just makes me sick to see American Apparel in other
countries and people go in and see that "Americans" are about looking like
1970s high schoolers. Like it our not this brand does represent us.

~~~
jamiequint
"Like it our not this brand does represent us."

What single brand does? American Apparel is a single clothing brand out of
thousands that are exported from the US, and they are all different.

Certainly American Apparel represents a portion of the US, whether you like it
or not.

