
Apple: Magic Accessories - davidbarker
http://www.apple.com/magic-accessories/
======
buster
Scroll down to the mouse gestures and the first thing you see is someone
slowly demonstrating the unbelievable feature of a right click on a mouse.
With the index finger. Awesome.

Edit: There it is:
[https://www.apple.com/media/us/accessories/2015/e137bcd8-687...](https://www.apple.com/media/us/accessories/2015/e137bcd8-6875-11e5-9d70-feff819cdc9f/magic_mouse/click/split_files/large/large_1.split.mp4)

I could watch this masterpiece all day.

~~~
stephenr
I don't understand how people on a site called _HackerNews_ still somehow
aren't aware of what features apple products have, while still feeling
obligated to post comments based on their own assumed/misinformed views about
the features they believe aren't there.

Every mouse Apple have shipped for the last decade has supported "Secondary
Click", and honestly after using a _multitouch_ mouse for about the last 4
years, I don't understand how anyone would use anything else.

~~~
coldpie
I've got one of those button-less trackpads on my work Mac laptop. I can't
fucking stand it. The clicking just kinda gradually stops working about
halfway up, like the bottom half is clickable and then it slowly fades to a
non-clickable surface as you move up. So you have to keep track of where your
finger is to know if you can click.

Click-and-drag when you realise you've run out of trackpad space to keep
dragging is a mind-bending experience.

What's fucking wrong with buttons?

~~~
stephenr
The trackpads on Apple laptops _prior to the new force touch models_ are
physically clickable only at the bottom because the top edge is basically
fixed in place (as the hinge for the whole thing). I don't see how this is any
worse than separate buttons - you'd still have the same physically clickable
area then (the bottom bit) but you'd have _less_ space to drag the cursor
around.

Seriously though, turn on tap-to-click. Never worry about physically clicking
it again.

> What's fucking wrong with buttons?

A multi-touch surface such as the MagicMouse or Trackpad on a recent Apple
laptop is so ridiculously more customisable than a mere one or two or even
three physical buttons + regular trackpad.

Taps, with 1-4 fingers. Swipes in 4 directions with 1-4 fingers. Swipe from
the sides. Pinch/Spread with 2 fingers. Pinch/Spread with thumb and several
fingers. Rotate.

Seriously, this is just what's available _out of the box with OS X_ , before
you look at third-party software to track even more gestures on touch
(trackpad/mouse) surfaces.

Edit: clarified that pre-force-touch trackpads are top-hinged.

~~~
coldpie
> I don't see how this is any worse than separate buttons - you'd still have
> the same physically clickable area then (the bottom bit) but you'd have less
> space to drag the cursor around.

Sure, but with physical buttons I know if I'm on a physical button. With this
thing, sometimes clicking just doesn't work because I'm too far up and I have
to move my finger down to where it's magically clickable again.

> Seriously, this is just what's available out of the box with OS X

I dunno, I don't use any of that stuff. I do 90% of my work from the Terminal.
I drag windows, scroll, and select text (ugh) and that's about it. For my use
case, this thing is no improvement over buttons and often a detriment.

~~~
stephenr
> I drag windows, scroll, and select text

All of which is easier _because_ of multitouch.

Two-finger drag to scroll. Three-finger drag to do anything that's normally
click+drag.

Doesn't matter where your fingers are on the trackpad, or which direction you
need to move, and you can briefly lift your fingers and resume a 3-finger
drag.

------
Splines
Bringing the laptop interface to the desktop? Not interested.

The desktop is the one place where I don't need wireless, I don't care how
big, old, or ugly looking my hardware is, and what I bought 10 years ago still
works perfectly fine today.

The Magic Keyboard seems designed for using it from the couch. Any other use
case seems better served with a "normal" keyboard.

~~~
coldpie
Amen. I actually built up a stash of the old-style Microsoft ergonomic
keyboards shortly before they stopped building them. I cycle through them only
when I spill water on them; that is their Achilles heel. I give them Viking
funerals.

~~~
togusa
Same with cheap cherry G83s for me.

I widlarize mine though :)

------
xd1936
Now we have to deal with battery degradation. AAs can be replaced; Sealed-in
Lithium Ion batteries degrade over time.

A very Apple move, to change to hardware with more planned obsolescence.

~~~
arbitrage
What's the expected lifetime of a mouse, and what's the expected useable
lifetime of a li-ion battery? Yes, it will degrade over time, but you'll
continue to get use out of it. I'd peg both at about 4-5 years at this point.

It's not apple that's implementing planned obsolescence. It's the entire
industry, and it's defacto obsolescence. Or would you still expect to be using
your microsoft ball mouse from 1999 today?

~~~
togusa
Seriously a Logitech wireless mouse costs £8 here in the UK at the moment. It
takes one AA battery a year for me and lasts about 3-4 years before the
buttons stop working.

So not the entire industry.

As a side note I have a working Microsoft optical mouse from 1999 that was
used for 7 years and is still fine.

~~~
unprepare
If its still fine, why did you buy the logitech?

~~~
togusa
Bought a new desk and the cable was too short.

------
nicpottier
Rechargeable is kind of nice, but a lightning cable?

I thought we were all going to start standardizing on USB type-C?

~~~
chrisBob
The lightning port to charge all of your devices is interesting. I kind of
like the idea that the phone charger you have laying around anyway[0] can be
used to charge all of your battery powered devices. The new Siri Remote for
Apple TV has the same thing, and it surprised me at first, but it actually
makes sense to do that rather than a USB connection for most of their
customers.

I agree they don't have it quite figured out though. The Apple TV developer
kits came with two cables: You get a lightning cable to charge the remote and
a USB type-C cable to connect to the Apple TV itself.

[0] I think its safe to assume that the average person buying an Apple
keyboard also has an iPhone in their pocket.

------
IkmoIkmo
My thoughts:

\- Nothing unexpected really. When they did force touch on the Macbooks, we
all knew it'd be coming to the phone and wireless trackpad, too.

\- The lack of force touch on the magic mouse means developers are less
inclined to create any essential force touch functionality into their software
as a substantial number of their users this generation of hardware may just
have the non-force touch mouse only. Not a really big deal (tons of old Macs
without force touch around anyway), but if they'd been able to put force touch
into every magic mouse too then you'd be able to create software that relies
on force touch in a few years.

\- Trackpad feels a tiiiiny bit too large now. Not a big deal, a little
redundant area is somehow comfortable and its for a desktop environment
anyway. But just look at the pinch gestures, the hand in the video is shown
pinching to full stretch and there's still area left to stretch even further.

\- Can still see a lot of people complain about the mouse's ergonomics. At
what price, is it really? We've got plenty of great mice to choose from. The
notion there are fewer moving parts is an interesting design choice, but it's
not exactly important in the way it is for say an internal combustion vs
electric engine where you see differences in wear and tear and such. In my
experience the lifetime of all my mice has been ridiculously. It's certainly a
nice looking design, but a higher elevation fits better in my hand and there
are plenty of mice that offer that, offer wireless, offer swiping gestures and
rechargeable batteries.

Anyway, the tl;dr overal takeaway is that these upgrades make a lot of sense
and I'd be more than happy to upgrade as an existing MM/TP user, but I'm not
enticed to switch if I wasn't a MM1 / TP1 user to begin with.

Question to you all btw, have you seen anyone putting force touch into their
software on a mac? I've literally used it 0 times in the past 6 months mostly
because I don't use safari, but I don't see any developers jump in to provide
any functionality, either yet.

------
chiph
> Apple Magic Mouse 2 has a new internal structure with fewer moving parts.

It had like .. 1 moving part before - the switch when you depressed it.

~~~
pdpi
And the battery compartment. And the power switch (which I expect it does
still have).

~~~
chiph
I'll argue that the battery lid isn't a moving part since it doesn't move in
regular use. But I'll agree that the power switch could be one. The new mouse
is probably smarter about entering sleep mode and doesn't have a switch
(guessing here). So that's 2 moving parts gone.

~~~
pdpi
I guess my Logitech G710 has me so used to piss poor battery performance that
the battery compartment seems to me to be very much a moving part that gets
moved on a regular basis.

------
usaphp
Magic Trackpad 2 is a must buy for me, ever since I bought a new MBP with new
touchpad that allows to click anywhere on a surface - I can't get used to old
way of clicking only at the bottom of a trackpad, I want to click anywhere now
and with consistent pressure

------
TomSawyer
It's kind of a bummer that the new keyboard ($100) doesn't have a backlight
while still keeping the eject button.

~~~
dnissley
And still no black keys option :(

------
dot
yay, finally rechargeable!

i'm actually excited about the new trackpad. i have some kind of a weird
sensation whenever i use a silver trackpad, a sort of tingle in my fingers.
this doesn't happen on the magic mouse's white surface... anybody know what
i'm talking about? my friends think i'm crazy.

~~~
k8tte
i recognize this.

i've been using only the apple trackpad for about 3 years now, and the
"sensation" you describe was persistent for the first several weeks / months.
the interaction by using the tip of your fingers is a bit wierd at first, but
now i could never go back.

trackpad is very superior to a mouse, at least for non-gaming stuff, like
coding & browsing the webs

------
hatsunearu
I personally find the force touch trackpad really spooky. It clicks in when I
exert force, which is fine, and if I reduce the force without moving my
finger, it clicks out, which is also fine.

When I click and drag across the trackpad, the click out force point changes;
it clicks when my finger leaves my trackpad, not when my finger removes the
force on the trackpad. That hysteresis makes my brain hurt.

~~~
shade23
I didn't realize this till you put it up.But does this have any effect on your
workflow?

~~~
hatsunearu
Well I use a trackball and an external keyboard so it doesn't really matter.
My personal laptops don't have force touch trackpads so it's a non-issue for
me.

------
rebootthesystem
You know what is far more eco-friendly than not having to replace batteries on
keyboards, mice and touchpads?

Cables.

Lithium-ion batteries are not necessarily clean to manufacture. And,
eventually these things are going to end-up in a landfill somewhere.

I truly don't understand this push to de-cable keyboards, mice and touchpads
that will be attached to something on your desk. Every single one of our
workstations, Mac or PC, has cabled keyboards and trackballs. I can't remember
one single instance --in decades and hundreds of workstations-- of anyone,
including myself, expressing any degree of inconvenience or any problem
whatsoever related to cabled input devices.

The way I see it, adding batteries --of any kind-- to a device that could very
reasonably be plugged in and forgotten about is the exact opposite of eco
friendly.

The funny part you still have to have cables laying around because there will
be a monthly two hour charging ritual --times N devices. At least with
disposable batteries one could pop in new batteries and get going. Now, if you
forget to charge, you'll have to attach the cable for a couple of hours. My
guess is eventually people are going to leave the keyboard and touchpad
plugged-in, again negating the reasoning for both non-eco-friendly lithium-ion
batteries and wireless.

This is a design choice made purely for design and presented with a very
twisted justification of eco-friendliness when, in reality, the opposite is
true. Outside of a few corner cases cabled devices would do just as well and
be far more eco-friendly by a long shot.

There are many articles out there on the issues surrounding the production of
lithium-ion chemistry cells. Of course, as with anything on the web, it is
important to understand the interests and bias behind who publishes the
article and why. With that, I grabbed a couple to post the links here. I leave
it to the reader to explore further.

[http://phys.org/news/2014-10-li-ion-batteries-toxic-
halogens...](http://phys.org/news/2014-10-li-ion-batteries-toxic-halogens-
environmentally.html)

[http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/01/19/tesla-
motor...](http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/01/19/tesla-motors-dirty-
little-secret-is-a-major-proble.aspx)

------
mrweasel
>This solid but lighter build, along with an optimized foot design, results in
a smooth, superior glide with less resistance.

That's exactly my issue with the mouse. It glides to easily. The touch is
pretty much useless because I end up moving the mouse instead. I'm probably
holding it wrong.

While I love the current trackpad, I'm not sure that I really believe that
much in force touch, it seems like a very undiscoverable interface design.
Some people are still struggling with single vs. double click, I don't feel
that it helps them that they now also have to think about how hard they press.

------
iMark
The new trackpad certainly stands out in terms of pricing.

£109 vs £65 for the new mouse.

~~~
togusa
Ouch! As a comparison point paid £7.99 for my Logitech wireless mouse from
Curry's.

There's not that much extra value in it.

~~~
hollerith
I paid about $15 for a Microsoft Mouse 3500, which tracks my shiny desk
surface (1960s linoleum) whereas according to internet reviews, the Apple
Magic Mouse (older version) will not track a shiny or transparent surface.

~~~
togusa
Yep. I actually had the last magic mouse and it nips your fingers on the sides
as well.

------
ape4
Is a cable for your keyboard really that bad. Its mean a perfect connection
and no recharging.

~~~
Corrado
Well, the newer Macs have limited USB ports so you have to either do a lot of
switching around, or have a USB hub on your desk. Now you have 3 or 4 cords
laying around which look ugly and, worse, usually end up getting hung up on my
mouse and causing me to rearrange stuff. It's not the end of the world, but I
really, really enjoy my wireless keyboard/trackpad and am looking forward to
getting the new ones (at least the trackpad 2).

------
pilif
For years now I have a TrackMan Wheel by Logitech, but it's starting to slowly
dissolve after years of continuous use.

Unfortunately, they don't make that one any more - only its successor which is
wireless for some inexplicable reason (you don't move a trackball around - why
do you care about wires?).

As such I'm on the lookout for a replacement. I've tried the old Apple
Trackpad, but it doesn't feel as comfortable as the trackball - likely because
it has a way too steep angle for me - also it is in need of constant battery
replacement which just doesn't make sense for a stationary object on the
table.

Maybe the new trackpad is a solution for this: The angle looks less steep and
it can presumably be used in wired mode or at least it doesn't need new
batteries as it comes with a rechargeable one.

I'm used to Force Touch from a 15" retina macbook pro and I like it very much
on that machine, so that's probably ok.

Really looking forward to trying this one out :-)

~~~
pilsetnieks
Or you could upgrade to a full-on trackball. I've been using Logitech Trackman
Marbles for the past 8 years or so but a few months ago I upgraded to a
Kensington Slimblade which is amazing.

------
joosters
No force touch on the magic mouse? That's surprising, it seems like an ideal
candidate for the feature.

------
joeblau
Ascetically, these look very good. As a developer who spends a lot of time
typing, I prefer using a keyboard with mechanical switches so I use a Das
Keyboard. That being said, for my Mac Mini build server that is connected to
my TV, these would make an excellent addition.

------
Sidnicious
The built-in batteries feel like a step back. If you use the current crop of
mice and keyboards with rechargeable AAs, you get the same benefits but can
swap to a full set in seconds and recharge the old ones at your leisure.

------
felixthehat
I hope they're not phasing out the numeric keypad versions! I love typing on
those. Never understood why Apple didn't make a wireless version with a keypad
either.

~~~
wlesieutre
It looks that way. No more Apple keyboards for me, I need those for Blender's
view shortcuts.

~~~
felixthehat
Exactly my use case too! Blender is unusable without. In case you'd not seen
there's a cool iOS app which replicates Blender's keypad functions - great
when you're on a Macbook or similar: [https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/blender-
keypad/id430784289?m...](https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/blender-
keypad/id430784289?mt=8)

~~~
wlesieutre
You can get a lot of it from the Pie Menus addon. Holding q pops up a menu,
you push the cursor slightly toward the one you want and release the key:

[http://i.imgur.com/zDdbrER.png](http://i.imgur.com/zDdbrER.png)

It's what I use on my laptop, but I still prefer the keypad when I can have a
full keyboard.

------
icedchai
I wish Apple would make a mechanical keyboard. Those flat keyboards are fine
for laptops. For a desktop, I want something substantial.

~~~
steeef
They do!
[http://deskthority.net/wiki/Apple_Extended_Keyboard_II](http://deskthority.net/wiki/Apple_Extended_Keyboard_II)

It'd be neat to see an update, but it's not going to happen. Mechanical
keyboards are a niche product.

~~~
icedchai
Thanks for the link. I remember that from the 90's.

I personally can't stand Apple's keyboards, laptop or desktop. I'm probably in
the minority, but preferred the non-chicklet keyboards on the old (before
2008-ish) MacBook Pros ...

------
bonaldi
The way they talk about the new keyboard makes it sound like the MacBook
keyboard, which I really can't get on with.

~~~
Killswitch
The small keyboards without the numberpad have always been pretty on par with
a MacBook keyboard. Which is why I love them so much.

Before I went all Mac, I had trouble going from a regular keyboard to a laptop
keyboard. Always missing where keys are and that. Once I went Mac with the
keyboards almost exactly the same, I don't even notice it anymore.

------
mathgeek
I'm not a huge fan of the form factors on Apple's external input devices to
begin with, and now that I can't just swap out the batteries and have an
instant full charge while on the go... no thanks.

------
_superposition_
Its a sad day when a wireless mouse and keyboard make it to number 3 on HN.

------
Spooky23
Reading between the lines here, does this mean that a mouse interface will
finally be available for iPad?

It would be awesome to have a mouse for Citrix/VMWare terminal access.

~~~
alsetmusic
I assume you're referring to the Lightning to USB connection. Pics on the
website show Lightning ports on the accessories, so the other end would be
USB. This wouldn't connect an iPad and a Magic Mouse.

------
FLGMwt
Haven't we learned that the inward incline isn't the way to go? Or is it
marginal enough in this case to be aesthetic?

------
dangerlibrary
In the section for the magic trackpad, there is a little animated gif showing
how a two-finger swipe animates sliding webpages (presumably emulating "back"
and "forward" buttons). The animation in the browser is choppy and there is a
visible delay/mismatch between the swipe and the response. Apple's marketing
can't even doctor a gif properly.

~~~
stephenr
What are you talking about? It's smooth in the animation, just as it is in
reality doing the same thing on a previous-gen magic mouse or MBP trackpad).

Are you confusing the snap at the end with "choppiness"?

