
Full-time Geeks Shouldn't Ignore Physical Impact of the Craft - ldayley
http://blog.louisgray.com/2011/08/full-time-geeks-shouldnt-ignore.html
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donw
Wrist supports are one of the _worst_ things you could buy for yourself. All
you're doing is further weakening the supporting muscles, and making the
injury worse.

Buy yourself a set of climbing shoes, a chalk bag, and a membership to a
climbing gym. Your wrists, not to mention your whole body, will get a lot
stronger, and RSI will become a thing of the past.

Completely anecdotal, but I used to climb a lot, before moving to Tokyo, and
since I've been here, haven't been out once... and you know what? Wrist pain.

Exercise. Your body needs it.

~~~
doki_pen
I always thought that CTS was caused by the muscles in the wrists being over
developed. But I just read the Wikipedia article[0], and it seems that there
is no evidence that CTS is related to typing. I'm not sure if wrist health can
be helped by braces or exercise, except that it can be caused by obesity.

This is a great piece of marketing though, whether it is intended to be one or
not. I wonder how many wrist braces were sold.

[0] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpal_tunnel_syndrome>

~~~
donw
When typing, the muscles on the outside of the forearm (anterior group) get a
lot more use than the ones on the inside (posterior group), so they get a lot
stronger. This lack of balance is (likely) a contributing factor to CTS, in
the same way that a weak neck and thoracic stabilizers cause UCS (upper-cross
syndrome)

Climbing is ideal here, because you spend a lot of time grabbing and holding
on from odd angles, giving your entire forearm a solid workout.

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mike_h
The main point is always worth reiterating (take care of your body), but
before a bunch of people run out and buy wrist supports I just want to add
that things like this are not universally endorsed by physical therapists (or
fellow injury-prone hackers). They can lead to secondary issues like atrophy
and poor circulation, which in turn lead to more issues, etc.

Having been through multiple versions of these (the kind he has, less
restrictive ones, custom-molded ones), I found my body held up best when I
kept it active and strong on its own. The term "crutch" has a double meaning
in the English language for a reason: sometimes it's truly necessary, but when
it's not truly necessary it's actually hurting you in the long run.

~~~
ajross
It's worse, actually. Last I remember reading the whole idea of keyboard-
induced RSI is basically a myth. For RSI sufferers, keyboard use irritates the
problem to the point where it can be debilitating. But there is no known
correlation between keyboard use and RSI.

Some people have wrist pain, some (like me, despite living full time at a
keyboard for most of the last 20 years) don't. If you do, take care of
yourself. But don't do stuff like this prophylacticly, it's more likely to
hurt than help.

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Jarred
This is why I like having a desktop for coding.

It's much more comfortable sitting in a nice chair, with two big monitors, an
external ergonomic keyboard (Microsoft Natural Keyboard Elite), and the Razer
DeathAdder mouse (Not as ergonomic as a trackball mouse, but very ergonomic
for a regular mouse).

You could do this with a laptop too, but you'll be more prone to coding on the
couch, which will dramatically increase your chances of getting carpal tunnel.

~~~
mike_esspe
I wonder if not using mouse helps against the syndrome? I'm coding only on
notebooks + touchpad for last 10 years, and never had a problem.

Though reading stories from people with syndrome makes me worrying :)

~~~
mike_esspe
I just skimmed through carpal tunnel papers on pubmed, and found a surprising
large amount of papers stating, that there is no correlation between keyboard
use and the syndrome.

~~~
sliverstorm
I find myself wondering if the studies you reference actually studied the
effects of poor posture, or only the use of keyboards themselves.

I have found I'm much more prone to discomfort in my wrists when I am typing
on my 10" netbook half-lying down on the couch with my shoulders 30-45 degrees
out-of-line with the monitor.

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pshc
Wouldn't wearing wrist supports all the time atrophy your wrist muscles and
make the problem worse later? I always hear that doing free weights solves
this issue. He says he's strapped for time, but there's also the old "spend
time being sick later" adage.

~~~
louismg
It's possible. I don't wear them constantly, but usually when there is
soreness starting.

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jacques_chester
For a brief period in 2007 it looked like hand, wrist and elbow pain was going
to part of my life.

Then for an unrelated reason I went back to the gym and started deadlifting.
It hasn't returned.

~~~
z0r
Yes, aside from the occasional aching in the forearms and wrists the day or so
after some tough pulls, working ones grip this way seems to be only for the
better. Author got it right that prevention is the best approach to this kind
of injury, but may have chosen the wrong method to do so.

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trusche
I've been typing away on computers for fifteen years now and, knock on wood,
never had any wrist problems. Split keyboards help a lot.

However, in the last few years, I've had increasing difficulty with my neck
and shoulders, one one side mostly. I am also an avid whitewater kayaker, and
the first time my shoulder cried out in protest, I put it down to making some
wrong moves while playboating. Physical therapy and a break from the water
took care of it eventually. So naturally I stopped the exercises, and the
shoulder pain came back with a vengeance the first time I was back on the
water.

Now paying attention to my posture, and doing neck and shoulder stretches
several times a day, is slowly improving my condition. So don't forget to not
only support your wrists, but also to support your whole lower arm, either by
sitting very close to the table or by having a decent ergonomic chair with
adjustable arm rests. It prevents your shoulders from hunching up and
developing all sorts of knots in your shoulder and back muscles. Your neck
will thank you.

~~~
mattgreenrocks
I've been anti arm rest for awhile since I started guitar (another activity
not great on your hands), and I've wondered if it takes its toll on you. I
figured it doesn't do it any favors since your forearms are constantly engaged
as you type without an arm rest.

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erikcw
I recently had a new suit tailored and was surpised/amused to learn that my
right arm is 1/4" longer than my left (this hasn't been the case when I've
been measured in the past). My guess is that I was out of alignment from my
habit of sitting slightly diagonal to my desk and reaching for my mouse with
my _right_ hand for much of the day.

I'm already much more of a keyboard guy than a "mouser" (as I'm sure most
HNer's are) -- but I'm switching to a standing desk next week and correcting
my bad habits. I'm to young for this!...

------
sn0wright
Besides the physical impact, you should definitely look into the mental impact
of the craft as well. I've learned (unfortunately through the hard way) that
regular exercise (be it yoga, running, etc) helps to relieve stress that our
body encounters throughout the day.

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brendoncrawford
Most of the problems can be eliminated with...

    
    
      1. Use a standup desk
      2. Use a vertical keyboard (http://safetype.com/)
      3. Stretch every 4 hours
    

Using a wristguard really doesn't do anything to prevent long term problems.

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watmough
I've never liked wrist braces. Much better, in my opinion, to exercise and not
bash your wrists up with too much programming.

If my mousing wrist does ever get sore, I have a Logitech Marble trackball
that I use until any pain goes away. Motrin can also be your friend to reduce
inflammation.

I've also recently switched from a somewhat mushy Apple clear keyboard to one
of the aluminum and chiclet metal ones. Seems ok so far, and pretty close to a
laptop feel.

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flocial
Seems like a better way to take care of yourself would be to get some exercise
in this case. I bought one of those spinning gyro thingies for my wrist. I got
them spinning pretty good but then I got elbow pain. Got more exercise and re-
started supplements like chondroitin and glucosamine (these do wonders after a
couple months) and now no pain. Should be able to do wrist exercises again
soon.

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nwhitehead
I'm not a fan of wrist supports for everyday use. My strategy:

1) Kinesis keyboard 2) trackball on left and right side of keyboard, to
balance mousing 3) lift weights 3 times/week 4) fish oil supplements once a
day (mild anti-inflammatory) 5) standing desk

Having trackballs on both sides of the keyboard while standing lets you CODE
LIKE A BOSS.

~~~
docgnome
I second the Kinesis suggestion. I bought one for myself and my work just
bought me one. Best Keyboard Ever.

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proee
I've found setting my mouse sensitivity (pointer speed) to maximum helps
reduce wrist movement. It takes just a little getting use to, but once you
adjust to the increased speed your wrist moves very little. This is especially
good for large displays (I have a triple monitor setup).

~~~
aquark
I've used vertical mouse (www.evoluent.com) for years now at work and it is
great. It's cost per hour must be down in the 1c range.

It feels much more natural on my wrist than one in the normal orientation ...
and its always amusing to see people try to use it for something.

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ww520
Remap your CAPS key and Control key, especially for Emacs user. It does a
world of wonder for your pinky.

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ldayley
I wish that the Dvorak keyboard layout would get more attention and support.
Prevention > Cure.

~~~
kristofferR
Why not Colemak instead? Colemac is both more similar to QWERTY than Dvorak
(so a lot of keyboard shortcuts like Ctrl+Z/X/C/V still works and also easier
to learn) and more efficient.

~~~
subsection1h

      Why not Colemak instead?
    

I haven't encountered anyone who has recommended Dvorak after using Colemak,
so I'm guessing he hasn't used Colemak.

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peteretep
No mention of WorkRave or AntiRSI on an RSI-related article? We're getting
slow! As soon as your wrists start hurting, install the appropriate one for
your platform. It will irritate the hell out of you, but save your wrists...

------
lukev
This is why I use a standing desk, and keep a couple dumbbells underneath to
do a set whenever I reach a point where I need to stop typing and think.

------
georgieporgie
Upon graduating college and entering the workforce, I was debilitated by awful
wrist pain. It was so bad, I could barely shift my car on the way home.

Over a decade later, my wrists hardly ever bother me. Physical therapy taught
me to regularly stretch my wrists, and how to strengthen them. I began
pursuing other activities which further strengthened my wrists (rock climbing
is particularly great, so long as you avoid overdoing it and injuring yourself
worse).

My basic advice to people now is:

1) Follow the Pomodoro technique, or whatever it takes to force yourself to
get up, stretch, and move around for at least five minutes per hour. We all
sort of hear that and nod, but think about how many times you've gotten really
deep into a problem and sat there, twisted like a pretzel as you try to solve
it, for hours on end. You _have_ to condition yourself to take real,
meaningful breaks.

2) Sit up straight, dammit. In every photo we ever see of new startups, how
many people are sitting with good posture? None of them.

3) Get a keyboard with light-touch Cherry key switches. I'm partial to the
Kinesis ergo line, but there are others.

4) Get active. Straighten your spine and go for a walk around the block a few
times per day. Take up yoga, climbing, martial arts, or weight lifting. Focus
on improving posture, flexibility, and balanced strength. Find some hobby that
will get you away from the computer.

~~~
blahedo
> _2) Sit up straight, dammit. In every photo we ever see of new startups, how
> many people are sitting with good posture? None of them._

Do you have data that indicates that contributes to RSI? My personal
experience is that trying to "sit up straight" and maintain "good" posture is
the fastest, most direct route to wrist pain. Like, less than a half hour. By
contrast, if I slouch my body, my wrists can maintain a graceful positive
curve (not straight or bent back) and I can comfortably code or game for hours
(though I try not to sit in one place that long, in general). As a side
benefit, this also puts my eyes at a better angle when I'm using the laptop
screen.

~~~
da_dude4242
Wrist pain can be a product of Thoracic Outlet Syndrome.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoracic_outlet_syndrome>

The thoracic region of the spine is supposedly very sturdy and resilient to
injury. But sitting hunched over with head forward over many years can catch
up to you.

