
Why America Is Losing the Toilet Race - notlukesky
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2020/02/25/808791622/why-america-is-losing-the-toilet-race
======
ekianjo
This shows how bad is Toto (and other companies in the market in Japan) at
exporting their products even though they are remarkably better across the
board. Even if they don't make it in every home overseas you could imagine
they at least tap in a kind of premium market, but no, they are close to doing
nothing and don't have partnerships in most countries. Truly incompetent.

~~~
wyattpeak
> even though they are remarkably better across the board

I think you're pinning on incompetence a lot that has more to do with cultural
mores. This doesn't seem remarkably better across the board to me. It seems
neat to the technologist in me, but it also feels extraordinarily fussy, an
accommodation for the weak or incapable.

I recognise we should probably move to bidets, but I wouldn't look forward to
the sidelong "is he a bit weird?" glances from guests. Warmed seats is a bit
like fuzzy earmuffs: probably an improvement but something I feel like I
shouldn't need. In some sense, I think trying to improve a toilet at all feels
weirdly epicurean.

I find this vaguely embarrassing to write, I'm not a particularly macho person
and I don't like to acknowledge that sense of masculinity circumscribing my
actions. But I think it would take a hell of a marketer to get me past that,
especially at a steep price point, nevermind people who are openly manly.

~~~
DonHopkins
They should introduce refrigerated toilet seats for macho men, that clean your
bottom with a vigorous squirt of icy water, then dry it with a refreshing
blast of cold air.

~~~
chopdcheez212
I’d buy that!

~~~
DonHopkins
How about a bidet with a retractable nozzle that sprays mouthwash to freshen
your breath after you puke?

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thirtyseven
I think a big obstacle to adoption here is that most US bathrooms don't have
an electric outlet in the right place for a Washlet. Now the already expensive
toilet needs electrical work too, which may not even be possible if you're a
renter.

If I ever own a place I'm definitely getting one though.

~~~
remmargorp64
I rent an apartment, and I just ran a 25 foot white-colored extension cord
around my bathroom wall along the top of the floorboard molding, with the cord
tacked in place with coax cable clips. It then plugs into my GDFI outlet on
the other side of the restroom. It looks tidy enough, and it gets the job
done!

It has a heated water tank, heated seat (although I never use it), a blow
dryer, and a night light.

I haven't needed to use a single square of toilet paper ever since I got my
bidet. No regrets!

~~~
6t6t6t6
> heated seat (although I never use it)

Really? After living for some years in Japan, I feel almost traumatized when I
go to Europe in winter and I have to sit in a cold toilet.

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systemvoltage
I've spent significant time in Japan and everytime I return back to US, I
never go "Gee...I wish we had one of them Japanese toilets". It's fine. Not
great, but it does the job. Although I think bidets are great, we should get
that going in the USA.

~~~
pfundstein
To counter your anecdote with my own, Japan is a common holiday destination
for my circle of friends, and every single time anyone comes back, they
either: go "Gee...I wish we had one of them Japanese toilet seats", or
actually buy one, or they already have one and say nothing.

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joeblau
My brother has one of these in his new condo. let's just say this toilet paper
binge that we're on in the US isn't really impacting his life at all right
now.

~~~
_anastasia
[https://doineedtoiletpaper.com/](https://doineedtoiletpaper.com/)

~~~
joeblau
I LOL'd. I was really wondering what was behind this link.

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DeathArrow
Do those toilets come with an UPS in case there is a power loss?

Also since they might have a microcontroller or CPU running some software, I
hope they aren't connected to the Internet since that might expose the user to
DOS attacks.

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waterhouse
A Dave Barry column from 22 years ago[1], describing how 3.5-gallon-per-flush
toilets were banned in the US, makes me wonder if some kind of import
restriction or regulation about what can be installed in certain places
applies. Though there are people in this thread saying they've got one in the
US, so that's a point against that theory.

[1] [https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-
xpm-1998-11-01-19983051...](https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-
xpm-1998-11-01-1998305189-story.html)

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dropoutcoder
Cleaning after defecation really requires the skillful application of wet
paper towel, then dry paper towel, followed by a shower with a removable
shower head set to the laser setting, with soap and disposable rag.

Having spent time in Japan, I found that a Toto washlet is inferior to the
shower method. However, washlets are clearly better than only dry paper towel.

My process for American public restrooms involves wetting paper towels,
preferably after defecating to maintain absorption of water in the clumped
paper towels. It’s odd to me that bathroom stalls don’t offer the facility to
wet paper towels. It must be obvious to all that dry paper towel (without soap
nor water) cannot possibly clean fecal matter sufficiently, yet this seems to
be the cultural norm.

Perhaps someone will invent a kind of washlet that works better than the
current offering. I personally don’t need heating and gizmos, just a high
quality and reliable cleaning on par with the shower method.

~~~
Ghjklov
Okay imagine this. You finish taking a shit. And then there's a hole in the
wall that you stick your ass in. Then your ass sealing the hole creates a
vaccum where it can then flood the hole by violently shooting warm soapy water
at your ass. It does this for 3 cycles with new recycled soapy water each
time. Then it switches to the dryer mode and completely dries your behind.

~~~
downshun
Engineering details, what's the seal pressure reachable before rectal
prolapse?

Yup.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groom_of_the_Stool](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groom_of_the_Stool)

~~~
Ghjklov
That reminds me. This would never work since everyone has different sized
asses.

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bitwize
I frickin' love the Toto Washlet, but a toilet with only the flushing feature
is less likely to break and easier to fix when it does so there's something to
be said for its economy of design and lack of scope creep. I believe Toto
sells the Washlet as a seat for an ordinary toilet, so that helps.

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downshun
Focus seems to be in waste removal instead of data collection.

Would large scale stool analysis benefits outweigh the costs of its
implementation?

Maybe there can be another 'Ignaz Semmelweis' before another 'Broad Street
cholera outbreak' type event.

------
Fishysoup
First thing I'm getting when I can afford to replace a toilet.

~~~
farnsworth
There are very simple attachments on Amazon for less than $40 (maybe not
currently, but mine was very cheap)

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Jenkins2000
I bought the Luxe Bidet Neo 180 on Amazon for $41 in 2017.

Easy to install and no electricity needed. They are out of stock now, but if
you can get one, they are amazing.

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giardini
How well do these electric Japanese toilets work when there is no electric
power? As in a hurricane or earthquake?

~~~
pfundstein
I would suggest, in such a scenario where electric power is absent, that the
toilet seat would work much like a non-electric toilet seat.

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loeg
I ordered and installed one of these Totos last year myself (US). Love it.

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NoPicklez
Comparing the innovations of the toilet to the rise of the iPhone.

Well perhaps if the innovative electronic toilet was so good it would have, as
the author says "diffused" into other countries.

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crispinb
Good grief. Using expensively treated water to flush waste away is crude
Victorian technology as it is - adding fusspot electronic detailing hardly
improves it.

Composting toilets at urban scale - now that would be tech worthy of the 21st
century.

~~~
shirakawasuna
Bidets use less water than it takes to make the toilet paper Americans use to
excess.

~~~
crispinb
True, everything is an improvement on the current English-derived norm. Grey
water systems would help, but are expensive, particularly to retrofit.

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droithomme
This has been posted several times.

$17,300 toilets are great, much better than $80 toilets.

Author should install a $17,300 toilet in his home using money he actually
earned himself and THEN write about how he feels that was the right decision.

~~~
HenryKissinger
Hold on a second. This is only for one particular model. The article says that
high-tech toilets are present in hotels, restaurants, bus stations, rest stops
and around 80% of homes in Japan. Japan is a poorer country than the United
States. If Japan can afford this technology, there is no reason the US can't,
from a strict affordability standpoint.

~~~
benrbray
Poorer by what metric? I wouldn't agree that life in Japan vs USA is so
dissimilar that you can definitively say Japanese people/shop owners are
poorer. For example, both countries rank highly on the Human Development Index
[1]. In fact, Japan is #3 by inequality-adjusted HDI, whereas USA is #28.

(agree that the user you're responding to is being disingenuous about the
price of Japanese toilets btw. The other differences is that public restrooms
in Japan are often shared among several nearby shops--like at a train station
--meaning a Toto is always within reach even if there's not one in every
shop.)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Dev...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index)
[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequalit...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequality-
adjusted_HDI)

