

Tim Cook promises monthly reports on Apple supplier working conditions - tilt
http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/14/2798303/apples-tim-cook-chinese-working-conditions-monthly-reports-fla

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DamnYuppie
Why is everyone so fixated on just Apple? I am sure these type of conditions
and issues exist for the majority of companies manufacturing in China.

I believe that we should be just as outraged with everyone who is, in essence,
supporting these practices. I am aware that outsourcing involves giving up
some control but it doesn't absolve one of moral and inhumane abuses caused in
the process.

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shadowfiend
At the moment, it really seems like the only reason Apple is being fixated on
is because they're the ones that are publishing some of the most detailed
first-hand accountings of what's going on within their supply chain. Greater
transparency, in this case, is translating to a disadvantage. I don't think
they're the only ones, but some cursory Googling reveals plenty of companies
with codes of conduct, and some even with detailed explanations, but few if
any with detailed reports, annual or otherwise.

In essence, they're being proactive—in part because they can afford to be—and
getting skewered because they're giving people a peek under the hood.

That's one part. The other is of course that they are wildly profitable, in
part through large profit margins, and the question arises of “can't you cut
into those margins to pay your workers better”. Though this latter one is not
only true of Apple, Apple is perhaps one of the most visible companies to whom
it can apply.

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schraeds
Also, they are the most successful and wealthiest company in the world.

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laconian
Good. Apple has the resources to follow through and do it right. Follow
through and set the bar high for the rest of the industry to follow.

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abdurraheem
Gruber said it best: This is the biggest challenge facing Apple today.

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sek
Isn't this sad? This should be no matter at all, bad working conditions is
something of the past century. Enabling the next revolution should be the
biggest challenge for them.

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jkmcf
Worker rights in China are still in the early 1900s, or worse, their policies
are feudal.

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swombat
Kind of ironic that the appalling working conditions of the 1900s are largely
what gave rise to communism. Although based on what I know, the average 1900s
factory worker would have sold their mother for Foxconn's working conditions.

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codemac
Either they took worker's conditions very seriously, or they didn't. I have no
tolerance for sentences like this:

> Apple takes working conditions very, very seriously, and we have for a very
> long time.

When put in context of all the stories tha have come out, obviously their
"[..] very serious and long [term effort]" is a failure. 84% compliance? with
what? _not_ abusing their workers?

I look down on Apple for their deplorable behavior, but I look down on most
everyone, so please do not confuse my disgust as a unique disgust with Apple.

~~~
swombat
All the other manufacturers are worse. Apple is just the only one who
publishes reports about it, and so for some reason they get pilloried for it.
Apple does seem to take it more seriously than anyone else in the industry. If
anything, they should be commended for their level of transparency and their
continued, explicit efforts to improve things.

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mansolo
84 percent compliance on no forced overtime isn't great, but it gives a guy
like me hope that I can own an iPhone 5 without having blood on my hands.

The pressure must remain on Apple to put human beings first, before profits.
That hasn't happened in a convincing fashion yet.

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electromagnetic
84% compliance isn't great, but you still see "coerced" overtime in western
countries. I picked my wife up at 9:30 on the day before Christmas eve as she
had no choice but to finish her work (she works for a law firm and the
deadlines if not met can cause a multi-million dollar case to be thrown out).
Even though I know it was necessary for her job, I can't agree with employers
doing this. The lawyers make 6 figures minimum (her lawyer is a senior partner
and gets a share of the company profits so well above 1 mil a year). Yet my
wife makes $35,000 and has to bust her ass yet they can't afford to hire
anyone else so their workers aren't constantly running on deadlines.

At least my wife's lawyer will not allow her (no arguing) to get paid overtime
pay. If she works late, she gets the time off. Some of her coworkers have been
paid almost double their wage in overtime pay because the company won't hire
them more workers. This is illogical to me. Why pay someone double for 65
hours when you can pay two people for 80 hours.

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sek
The quick distraction to the unrelated "We also believe that education is the
great equalizer." what has nothing to do with the average Foxconn worker.
Sounds totally like a PR move and shows no personal relation to the subject.

This is something Jobs never did and was for me part of the magic of the
brand. Cook has no public personality. Apple makes now without Jobs a cold and
frightening impression to me. Even Ballmer with his weird personality makes
Microsoft human somehow.

Apple has to do something really revolutionary again (not just milking their
cash cows and an iOS TV device), to win the magic back. Imagine what is
theoretically possible with 100B, but who in the company has the vision and
enough leverage?

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martythemaniak
A lot of people have tried to excuse Apple using a variety of methods (citing
Krugman, pointing to Samsung's use of Foxconn etc), but they all ignore the
fact that Apple is breaking a fairly important social convention.

When a person pays premium for a product, they don't just expect quality, but
they want to feel good about their purchase as well. When you buy Direct Trade
coffee/chocolate, you know more of your dollars are going in the hands of
locals, when you purchase food at a Farmer's market, you know you're
supporting small-scale local farmers, when you buy Canada Goose, you know
you're supporting decently-paid and treated workers in Ontario. OTOH, when you
buy an Apple product, you're supporting the same kind of supply chain used by
low-cost manufacturers. With them, you pay premium dollar, but don't get
premium experience. The fact that this extra profit simply goes to Apple's
coffers (not even dividends, or R&D or charity) is particularly galling.

A few years ago they got pilloried by Greenpeace and that forced them to clean
up their act, so I'm glad they're once again getting pilloried.

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aeturnum
I associate Apple products a lot more closely to luxury goods than the sort of
socially-conscious products you mention. Apple did that (RED) promotion a
while back with their products, but that is as close as they have come to
putting forward a socially responsible face.

I don't think consumers expect luxury brands to compensate their workers more,
though it would be nice if they did.

