
Startup founder reportedly jumped to her death from the top of NYC rooftop bar - uptown
http://www.businessinsider.com/startup-founder-jumps-to-her-death-from-rooftop-bar-in-manhattan-2015-7
======
onion2k
If you're depressed making the first move to reach out to talk about your
situation is _really fucking hard_ , especially if people's perception of you
is that you're some sort of _go-getting independent business founder who can
do everything_. This is a reminder that it's worthwhile dropping an
email/text/phone call to someone you've not spoken to for a while - it's
possible that _no one_ has reached out to them recently, and they need to
talk.

The worst that could happen is you have a chat, while the best that could
happen, without wishing to sound overly melodramatic, is that you save their
life.

~~~
Zikes
I think we need to work on removing the stigma around general therapy. I have
not personally seen a therapist, but of those I know who have, they almost
always talk of it being a positive experience. In some cases, they have even
advocated semi-regular therapy as a general health regimen, much like you
might see a dentist or doctor regularly for checkups.

~~~
stephengillie
Part of the stigma is the sheer number of well-meaning but unhelpful
therapists. I went to several free and religious counselors when I was young,
and had several worthless experiences.

Most of them just wanted to hear what I had to say, and had no advice, as
though hearing myself talk about my problems would solve them automatically. A
few gave suggestions but not things that would realistically help (Maybe you
should try to be more social, to deal with your depression). Some put me into
group therapy with people whose problems were much worse than mine, and this
gave me the sense that my problems were small and not worth their time.

Having people goto therapy sounds nice in practice. In reality there are more
problems in attending therapy than it promises to resolve, so you're likely to
have even more problems than you started with.

~~~
Gdiddy
There's a lot to unpack here... But let me touch on a couple of the points you
raise - from the perspective of a trained, but non-practicing therapist.

First of all, there are lots of terrible therapists out there. Especially of
the 'religious counsellor' variety (I'm shuddering at the phrase). I had a
similar negative experience with a school counsellor who had an academic
degree in psychology (which involves zero client hours) and had self appointed
herself as a therapist in the educational context.

So choosing the right therapist is key. Well trained therapists with good
experience are not free. Someone is going to have to pay for what is an
expensive and highly educated professional service (for example it can take up
to a decade to become a clinical psychologist here in Ireland). That might be
government, charity, or client payment - or it might be that some excellent
therapists offer a portion of their time at a reduced rate; but it's extremely
unlikely that you'll get good therapy for free.

To address your second point however, I have to emphasise that the goal of
therapy is not to give advice. It's explicitly antithetical to most schools of
psychotherapy / counselling. There are many reasons for this - the therapist
is there to be the one person in your life who doesn't evaluate you, people
respond negatively to advice (with 'reactance') even when they desire it,
advice isn't necessarily generalisable. But overall, if you're looking for
advice you need to talk to a domain expert - e.g.: someone whose doing the job
you'd like. If you're going through emotional difficulties, counter-
intuitively the last thing that will help is concrete advice.

What the research shows is effective are things like the relationship between
therapist and client, trust, tailored interventions (e.g.: CBT for PTSD or
OCD) etc.

If you're ever interested in resuming therapy, I'd recommend reading more into
how the different kinds of therapy differ. It sounds like some form of CBT
might be useful for you - but above all the important thing is to work with a
professional whose a good personal match for you. Picking a therapist is
selecting someone with whom you'll be forming an intimate relationship, and
compatibility is vital. So I'd encourage shopping around.

------
throwaway9er
As a founder who struggles with severe depression, one of the few bits of
advice that I remember when personally in a dark place is from a physician
that had met with thousands of suicidal patients. He said:

"I've never had a patient who survived (suicidal thinking) and later wished
that they had killed themselves."

Sorry I couldn't find the quote and may be paraphrasing a bit, I share this
because this personal mantra has kept me from the ledge when my thoughts were
otherwise debilitating.

~~~
johnbenwoo
Likewise, I read a news story (long time ago, source forgotten) that
interviewed several people who had survived jumping from the Golden Gate
Bridge. The reporter asked each one what thoughts went through their head
after jumping before hitting the water. It wasn't relief or clarity - almost
unanimously, it was "What have I done?!?" and immediate regret.

~~~
blackkettle
This was phrased really well in the movie/article, worth looking up:

> “I instantly realized that everything in my life that I'd thought was
> unfixable was totally fixable — except for having just jumped."

------
brianwawok
Just a friendly reminder that no matter how bad your startup is doing, or how
much money you owe to who, or how much shame you feel.. life is worth a lot
more than money. You can always earn more money, but you can't come back from
the dead[0]

[0] - Provable with current scientific tools

~~~
jey

        Suicide is not chosen; it happens
        when pain exceeds 
        resources for coping with pain.
    

[http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/](http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/)

~~~
eli_gottlieb
Well yes. We know. That's why it's tragic, horrible, and _evil_ when someone
is in such pain that they need to commit suicide. It's a blow for Pain over
Joy, and for Despair over Hope, and a life destroyed to make that blow
permanent.

~~~
jey
OK. I posted it because I didn't always know.

When I was 16, the message I received was that the rest of life would be more
of the same and I should just learn to deal with it. I found some solace in
the concept of a Final Protest.

------
codahale
800-273-8255

National Suicide Prevention Lifeline

24 hours a day, 7 days a week

or www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org

~~~
codezero
International help: [http://www.befrienders.org/find-a-
helpline](http://www.befrienders.org/find-a-helpline)

And for HN's healthy Indian population AASRA 24/7 helpline at +91-22-27546669
or +91-22-27546667. [http://www.aasra.info](http://www.aasra.info)

------
alphanumeric0
Her upbringing likely was a factor as well as the stress of startup life.

([http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3169057/Faigy-
Mayer-...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3169057/Faigy-Mayer-
leaps-20-stories-rooftop-bar-death-bar-patrons-continue-drinking.html))

This hits close to home, being a 30-something software developer, and having
grown up in a very religious, anti-intellectual household. Very sad, and
preventable.

~~~
personlurking
The article mentioned a religious documentary she was interviewed for. Here is
that interview.

[https://youtu.be/TjDzR5plpS4?t=15m52s](https://youtu.be/TjDzR5plpS4?t=15m52s)

~~~
alphanumeric0
Thanks for that. I heard about the documentary months ago and was meaning to
watch it.

------
gadders
We're not journalists, but as suicide seems to be affected by social proof [1]
perhaps we should bear these guidelines [2] in mind when commenting or finding
an article to link to?

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copycat_suicide#Social_proof_m...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copycat_suicide#Social_proof_model)

[2] [http://www.samaritans.org/media-centre/media-guidelines-
repo...](http://www.samaritans.org/media-centre/media-guidelines-reporting-
suicide/advice-journalists-suicide-reporting-dos-and-donts)

------
20years
"Of the 242 entrepreneurs he surveyed, 49% reported having a mental-health
condition"

Wow! This is high. I wish the startup community pushed the importance of
balance more. Instead it sometimes feels like a race to the bottom.

~~~
Cshelton
I mean, the going stigma out there is, sorry Cuban, "You have to work
24/7/365, because business is a sport and there is always someone looking to
kick your ass".

The problem with this is we are human. We get stressed, we get depressed, we
get overly confidant and then utterly destroyed when something does not work
out that you've put everything into.

The stigma of having to work 24/7/365 is just a saying. Balance of work,
exercise, social interaction, relaxation, and sleep is far more important. Yes
Mark Cuban said that, but what does he really do? Even when hustling very
hard, he still went out to the bars with friends, still relaxed, etc. What he
really meant is that when he WAS working, he was working incredibly hard.

What I'm getting at is the quotes and the movies/shows of programmers pulling
24 hours straight is not healthy. Yes it has been done, even by very
successful people...Bill Gates, but how many do you not hear about? The ones
who take their own lives or become depressed for very long periods of time.

Working like this is dangerous. Balance is key, we are only human.

~~~
20years
This ^ 100% agree!

------
eigenvalue
This is so upsetting. After reading a few articles, I don't get the sense that
this was about her startup (it doesn't seem like the company ever had any real
revenues). She was apparently very depressed and struggling financially,
coming to the end of her lease on her apartment with no place to go, and
presumably unable to come to her family for help because of their disapproval
of her secular lifestyle. It could easily have been a spontaneous decision on
the roof that she didn't plan out or even really think about. It's just a
shame that her close friends didn't realize how bad things had gotten and done
more to help her (e.g., give/lend her money, offer a place to crash, a job
offer, etc.) Often the only thing that stops people from suicide is the
thought of the damage it would do to their parents and siblings; if your
relationship with your family is in shambles, this sort of thing becomes less
unthinkable.

------
myth_buster
You are not your work. You are so much more. Stay strong.

_________________________________________________________

Edit:

Fred Wilson speaks more eloquently here:

[http://avc.com/2014/01/you-are-not-your-work/](http://avc.com/2014/01/you-
are-not-your-work/)

~~~
therobot24
Not trying to criticize here, but i've never cared for the term "stay strong"
it's like telling someone who's depressed to "just be happy". I get the
sentiment though, just something about the phrase that irks me i guess.

~~~
humbertomn
I understand it as "I know the situation is hard, but try to keep your head up
(don't do anything extreme) because things will get better if you fight for
it"

~~~
therobot24
Yea i agree, but i'm not debating the meaning, rather the delivery. I really
like the phrase, "you are not your work", because it comes from the opposite
direction. To "stay strong" it sounds like you're not acknowledging that it's
ok to be 'not strong'.

------
codecamper
What a terrible shame! From her online profiles one can clearly see that she
was thoughtful, sensitive, intelligent, creative, and beautiful.

Authentic & moral people like that can be difficult to find.

~~~
tjculbertson
It is a shame. Just looking at her profiles and accomplishments you can tell
she was special. Not to mention having the guts to switch from accounting to
development as a woman in a male dominated industry.

May you rest in peace Faigy. I will pray for you and your family.

------
rokhayakebe
We should not jump to conclusion and say this has anything to do with her
startup.

The most important sentence here is _sprinted toward a shrubbery-lined._

Someone who rushes (as in running) to their death is not similar to someone
who walks and jumps.

------
presty
some more info...

[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3169057/Faigy-
Mayer-...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3169057/Faigy-Mayer-
leaps-20-stories-rooftop-bar-death-bar-patrons-continue-drinking.html)

[http://heavy.com/news/2015/07/faigy-mayer-dead-suicide-
jumps...](http://heavy.com/news/2015/07/faigy-mayer-dead-suicide-jumps-
rooftop-bar-new-york-appton/)

------
curiousjorge
wtf is going on? seriously, why are these startup founders killing themselves?
Why is it that they can't stop and walk away when what you are doing is not
making you happy? Why do you put someone who is well off enough to throw you
some pocket change above your own livelihood and your life? I just don't get
it.

>After she jumped, some customers continued to drink at the swanky bar

ugh.

~~~
eli_gottlieb
>seriously, why are these startup founders killing themselves?

If I may be a politicizing dick, severe inequality means that seemingly small
failures or successes can have massive, oversized influence on the course of
someone's life, and also means that we socialize people, from youth, to take
_each_ possible failure or success _that much more seriously_ , as that much
more _determining_ of their overall life course and meaning in the world.

It runs directly contrary to imbuing resilience in people, and in society.

Anxiety disorders and suicides are the price of having a society and a world
in which increasingly many people have everything on the line, at every step,
all the time.

~~~
brerlapn
You're making a fair point--and feeling like you have everything on the line
at every step is most likely going to ramp up someone's level of anxiety and
stress with all the negative impacts that entails. However, I also think there
is a counterbalancing point that framing life as an all-encompassing economic
gamble actually reinforces that anxiety and stress by making it seem like
economics is the whole of existence--and for folks who are feeling overwhelmed
by feeling like their failure or success hangs in the balance it is likely to
drown out a more healthy counter-narrative which is that you're probably not
"ruined" if you fail. It'll suck (believe me I'm still paying shitloads of
student loans for a career I quit almost a decade ago), but you can still have
friends and community and value things in life that aren't work or career.
People who are at the point of attempting suicide have drowned out all those
positives with a tunnel vision on the pressure of success/failure that is
blinding them to other possibilities (see comments above about people who
survived jumping from the Golden Gate Bridge).

So yeah, the economics of operating without the feeling of a safety net sucks,
but people who are starting to crumble under that safety net need to hear that
the safety net isn't just their runway, it's also all the family and friends
and life that they have or can build. Unfortunately in this particular case it
sounds like she was in a transition and didn't quite have those solidly in
place yet.

------
abc_lisper
Is her startup not doing well? Wonder why she did it, in front of people.

