
The FCC has fined robocallers $208M and collected $7k - mudil
https://www.foxnews.com/tech/the-fcc-has-fined-robocallers-208-million-its-collected-6790
======
themagician
Can someone explain to me how spoofing is even possible and why it is allowed?
That’s what I’ve never understood about this whole thing. Does it has any
legitimate use?

Robocalls would be much easier to address if you could block/report the actual
number they come from.

~~~
zackmorris
It's because:

1) Caller id was conceptually flawed from the beginning so was implemented as
an honor system instead of something required to communicate (like an IP
address)

2) Caller id is unregulated, so there is no penalty for spoofing

My previous comment on it:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19303931](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19303931)

From the linked article:

 _Unlike phone numbers and domain name service (DNS), wherein there are
internationally recognized databases that are authoritative sources, there is
no central authority or regulation for caller ID. No FCC guidelines regulate
carrier accuracy, and although federal regulations exist regarding
telemarketers and spoofing, carriers can maintain their caller ID databases as
they see fit._

[https://www.onsip.com/blog/how-caller-id-works-why-it-
might-...](https://www.onsip.com/blog/how-caller-id-works-why-it-might-take-
months-to-update)

~~~
ChuckMcM
Exactly this. The last time I had a chance to talk to an FCC commissioner
(they were in the Bay Area at an IEEE meeting) I strongly suggested that they
could do a world of good by creating such a database, requiring anyone who
wants to call into the US have their numbers registered in such a database,
and to put 'DO NOT TRUST' on any number that wasn't in the data base as its
default Caller ID.

Pair that with creating an access restriction to the US PSTN for any entity
that originates a call with a spoofed number that is enforceable with
technology rather than by voluntary or compelled action, and much of the
problem will be mitigated.

~~~
robrtsql
That doesn't solve the problem where legitimate numbers are spoofed, does it?
It seems my number is among the many that are being used by robocallers,
because I sometimes get texts from strangers saying "who are you?", or "sorry,
can't talk now".

~~~
ChuckMcM
That is part two, adding real teeth to spoofing a legitimate number. Basically
on confirmation that a provider allowed such a call to be made on the US PSTN
would result in all their numbers being blocked from the US PSTN until they
could prove they had fixed the problem.

------
hathawsh
Here are some tips for anyone plagued by robocalls.

My cordless phones have a simple "call block" button. It's quite helpful. The
set is similar to this set:

[https://smile.amazon.com/Panasonic-KXTGF344B-4-Handset-
Landl...](https://smile.amazon.com/Panasonic-KXTGF344B-4-Handset-Landline-
Telephone/dp/B00V5ZKBZI)

My "landline" is actually VoIP through Callcentric. They have good rates, the
service is extremely customizable, and they are very reliable. Sometimes I use
Callcentric to block numbers before they reach my phone.

I'm not affiliated with Callcentric or Panasonic. I'm just a happy customer.

~~~
pavel_lishin
What do those "call block" buttons do?

~~~
alistairSH
I believe they just add the currently listed (via caller ID) to a blacklist
that it will block in the future. It doesn't help for spam calls that rotate
their spoofed numbers.

~~~
hathawsh
That's right, the button instantly adds the caller ID to a blacklist. In my
experience, spammers don't rotate their numbers very often, so the button
works well enough. YMMV of course.

~~~
TacticalTable
Interesting. I've never received a spam call from the same number twice. They
just pick something with the same first 3 digits and area code.

~~~
alistairSH
That's my experience. Either a northern VA (703, 571) or DC (202) area code
with random last 7 digits.

And these days, about half the spam calls are in Chinese. Because Alistair is
such a common name in the Chinese-American community. :|

~~~
pavel_lishin
> _Alistair is such a common name in the Chinese-American community_

I'd bet you a dollar they're just dialing numbers sequentially; while they're
specifically targeting Chinese folks, I very much doubt it's more cost
effective to pre-filter phone lists.

------
basseq
From a similar article from _Gothamist_ :

 _> The problem here is partly bureaucratic: While the FCC has the power to
dole out fines, it lacks the power to actually enforce those orders. That
task, according to the Journal, falls to the Justice Department, and is not
made easier by the fact that many entities responsible for this relentless
aural spam are individual people or small outfits that can't afford the fees
they rack up and can skirt collectors without too much fuss._

... and...

 _> The Federal Trade Commission, it should be said, has done slightly better.
Since 2004, it has won a total of $1.5 billion from robocallers and No-Call
Registry violators in court, of which it has collected $121 million, or 8
percent of the total._

The Federal Trade Commission, it should be said, has done slightly better.
Since 2004, it has won a total of $1.5 billion from robocallers and No-Call
Registry violators in court, of which it has collected $121 million, or 8
percent of the total.

[http://gothamist.com/2019/03/28/fcc_robocall_collection.php](http://gothamist.com/2019/03/28/fcc_robocall_collection.php)

------
CWSZ
Change might be coming. The SHAKEN/STIR framework to authenticate calls is
making decent progress:

[https://transnexus.com/blog/2018/providers-responses-
shaken-...](https://transnexus.com/blog/2018/providers-responses-shaken-
without-delay/)

Once implemented incoming calls can be handled differently (e.g. UI
differences on dialer, dropped to voicemail) based upon the attestation.

------
antonf
Can filtering out robocallers be solved through technology? Similarly to how
Spam folder in your email app works. I have zero knowledge about how telecom
works, but it seems not too complex.

Also, it seems that iOS have support for third party apps helping to block
spam calls: [https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT207099](https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207099) Android have this
feature built-in:
[https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/3459196?hl=en](https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/3459196?hl=en)

~~~
elhudy
I've noticed that almost all of the robocalls i receive come from a number
beginning with the same three numbers as my number. I would love for the
ability to block all calls beginning with these three numbers, UNLESS they are
already on my contacts list. This would solve 95% of robocalls for me and
wouldn't have too much of a negative impact.

Although I could imagine the impact for people who receive many unknown calls
from their own area code would be non-negligible.

~~~
CharlesW
> _I 've noticed that almost all of the robocalls i receive come from a number
> beginning with the same three numbers as my number. I would love for the
> ability to block all calls beginning with these three numbers, UNLESS they
> are already on my contacts list._

Hiya (and presumably other solutions, but I've used Hiya extensively) does
this.

~~~
elhudy
you're a lifesaver; glad I asked!

------
ortusdux
One of the biggest issues here is that the people who would pass laws to
crackdown on robocalls depend on the technology to raise re-election funds.

------
mtw
The only reason I didn't cancel my phone is 2FA and a few essential apps
relying on you having a phone. Otherwise it's been weeks, if not months I
haven't initiated a voice call, and I might only get one valid voice call per
2 weeks.

~~~
TallGuyShort
My solution to the robocalls problem is that I essentially don't answer my
phone anymore. Some known numbers will get through, like my parents. 95% of my
communication is either text-based, web-based video calls, or something else
that's not traditional phone calls, _especially_ not from unknown numbers.

------
Causality1
Fines are a worthless form of punishment since almost all companies just see
them as a tax that may or may not be levied, and even if it is levied it will
never exceed the profits made by the illegal behavior. Every single fine over
$1000 should come with prison time for somebody. I don't care if it's a single
weekend in jail, when company executives choose to abuse consumers it's people
who should be punished, not bank accounts.

------
busterarm
This is kinda funny. This is one area where private industry is demonstrably
doing better than a government agency.

Lawfirms have collected billions from private industry via class action TCPA
cases.

This just means that the FCC has been ineffective. The law is actually mostly
working as intended. It stops/punishes legitimate large enterprises from
robocalling. It's no surprise that a law isn't doing anything about scammers
who are already breaking the law.

------
system2
I still don't understand how hard it would be for major phone carriers to
validate the source and let the calls thru. Wouldn't it be possible just to
allow Verizon to TMobile, or ATT to Verizon, since they both have their user
info and can validate each other's calls? I mean, I can see their names on my
phone, why not just add a little bit more info to make it more legit.

~~~
tantalor
What about the non-major providers? They are no longer allowed to operate?

------
ada1981
We out to fix robocalling / spoofing.

We also ought to fix the collection of fines and include jail time for execs
when fines aren’t paid.

------
tsumnia
For my own understanding, is the issue with robocalling the same with the
issues of spam emails or arbitrary DDOS attacks? In the guise that they look
"legitimate", but are "malicious" and any attempt to identify the original
source is difficult due to multiple proxies masking the origin?

------
pessimizer
Stop fining and start jailing. Those fines aren't going to compensate the
people getting robocalled anyway. Jail a few dozen people, and in 10 years
when parents tell their kids that recordings used to call to trick you into
financial scams, they'll think their parents are joking.

------
rhizome
Mandate that telephone customers who receive bad calls can acquire the billing
information of every call received (whatever is behind the spoofed Caller ID),
as well as implementing the ability for users to block incoming calls based on
the unspoofed number and/or account holder.

------
arcticbull
Any time I get a call from a human robocaller, I treat it as a game to get
them to hang up by telling them I plan to waste their time, then dong so
without remorse. Knowing many companies won't let them hang up so long as I'm
on the line, it can be quite the game.

~~~
GrinningFool
The problem with that is that it also wastes your time...

~~~
michaelmrose
In theory this could actually be done by a robot on your behalf that pretends
to be a human being. In theory this could even be a service that you transfer
the caller to silently. Want to write this so I can subscribe?

~~~
MockObject
Glad you asked!

[https://jollyrogertelephone.com/](https://jollyrogertelephone.com/)

Unfortunately, I find these spammers have gotten wise to this, and I haven't
been able to snag them in a year or so.

------
mnm1
Why even have laws and regulations that aren't or can't be enforced? Might as
well stop pretending like the government cares about this issue or that there
is even a law/regulation. It's exactly the same thing as not having a
law/regulation.

------
ortusdux
Does anyone have experience with the google call screening available on pixel
phones?

~~~
CarVac
I do; it's fantastic. Robocallers hang up every time.

------
bichiliad
Has anyone had any success with one of the handful of call blocking apps or
services? T-Mobile's Name ID service seems to be doing a fairly good job, but
a handful of calls still slip through the cracks.

------
mojomark
Why do they stop with the robocallers, instead of going after a-holes who are
paying for the robocaller services?

------
ravenstine
You can stop robocallers by simply not using the archaic phone system. Set
your phone to only accept calls from people in your contacts, or simply reject
all calls. Educate everyone you know about doing so. Legacy telecom needs to
die.

~~~
itake
I am interviewing for jobs and I have my phone number on my resume so
recruiters can contact me. This is not a good solution for many people or
small businesses.

~~~
RoadieRoller
I just took a Google Voice Number and put it in the resume. I get so many
calls from recruiters and I will not even be notified as I don't have anything
that connects them to my phone. I use the web interface of GV everyday end of
day and go through the voicemail, or calls them back if I think they are
legit. Again call back is also from GV number. So Google voice handles it for
me where it even converts voice to text in voicemail.

~~~
itake
Besides the fact many people may not want Google to listen to their phone
calls and voice mails, I still receive robo calls on my GVoice number, albeit
less.

------
prolepunk
Last week tonight released an episode on exact this issue a few days ago --
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO0iG_P0P6M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO0iG_P0P6M)

John Oliver should increase the frequency of robocalls to FCC chairs.

------
usaphp
Can someone explain me what is the business model for WSJ of acquiring new
readers. If new readers can’t even read the article to know if it’s worth
subscribing or not. It looks like they only rely on older people who used to
read WSJ when it wasn’t behind a paywall

~~~
gamblor956
The WSJ has a well-deserved reputation for its financial analysis. People in
business and especially in finance will gladly pay for the subscription.

They don't really care if anyone else reads the paper; the expected return on
a non-core subscriber isn't worth much more than the cost of acquisition, so
there's not much point to changing their business model to chase gadflies.

At the same time, non-core readers are a large source of potential revenue, so
they make their stories available through some means (like Apple News) in a
manner that allows them access to a large non-core market while protecting
their core subscription model.

------
esoterae
Robocallers are a problem! You can help fight this and make a difference with
just a few simple steps! First, you...

Please subscribe for only $N per month to keep reading!

~~~
soared
> Hates paying for content

> Hates advertising

mfw

~~~
dymk
Or use outline.com! Ignore that it's just straight up rehosting pirated
content from paid sources.

Edit: This is a heavily downvoted comment. Instead of downvoting, how about
you explain why you think you're entitled to paid content for free?

~~~
jelling
Shh...the knowledge workers that arrange bits in one format don't think the
knowledge workers that arrange bits in another format deserve to be paid. They
should innovate their way out of their victimization in a way that pleases
their attackers.

------
kolbe
Outline isn't working for me. Anyone know if the WSJ did something to thwart
them?

~~~
Redoubts
They've definitely been working on fewer domains for me lately

------
gpm
This appears to be the same article - or at least a substantial portion of it
- without a paywall (but with an annoying autoplaying video)

[https://www.foxnews.com/tech/the-fcc-has-fined-
robocallers-2...](https://www.foxnews.com/tech/the-fcc-has-fined-
robocallers-208-million-its-collected-6790)

~~~
sctb
Thanks! We've updated the link from [https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-fcc-has-
fined-robocallers-2...](https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-fcc-has-fined-
robocallers-208-million-its-collected-6-790-11553770803).

------
DigiMortal
Tear down that wall!

....WSJ!

------
soheil
Non paywall version [0] Or just copy and paste the original link in your
Facebook search and click it from there. [0]
[https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsj.com%2Fa...](https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsj.com%2Farticles%2Fthe-
fcc-has-fined-robocallers-208-million-its-
collected-6-790-11553770803&h=AT2p7k0fAEoiHsQyIX1vF0awPvoLkfNbwnpoENJ4TZzT6zAJyj6TDSaUXzncCU2T5efBKuWK_2u3LRoEjkRbKTm-
qHcakP42-Td4sS3obUwsY69qsMZGackjfwfS_HaxzYJa-g&s=1)

~~~
tekromancr
That link is still paywalled

~~~
caprese
I used it but then realized I was logged in to the WSJ and had a subscription

I'm just so used to circumventing paywalls that I forgot I actually pay for
that

------
mbrumlow
Maybe they can hire some robocallers to robocall the robocallers for
collection?

~~~
imglorp
[https://jollyrogertelephone.com/](https://jollyrogertelephone.com/)

~~~
mirimir
Love this!

A cool added feature would be detecting long catches, and then calling you, so
you could listen in real time.

------
amelius
Some time ago Google demonstrated a robocaller, and iirc most people on HN
thought it was cool ...

~~~
shawnz
Robocalling refers to the automated dialing of numbers, not automated speaking
over the telephone.

~~~
beering
They literally suggested the use case of robo-calling restaurants to get
holiday hours. I think it's a great idea BTW.

~~~
shawnz
But you choose the restaurant, it doesn't automatically call every restaurant
nearby. The product is the automated voice, not the automated calling of
numbers.

