
Did three men actually survive the escape from Alcatraz? - rickdale
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11927025/Did-three-men-actually-survive-the-escape-from-Alcatraz.html
======
brm
I got nailed in a lower comment for suggesting that Betteridge's law applies
here (I know I know.. Betteridge's law isn't hard and fast and it's SO
over/passe), but we live in an age where bullshit reigns and I'm willing to
double down...

This is from the Telegraph, a paper who at this point basically reprints press
releases on science and history with sensational titles (Not that they're the
only guilty ones). Other major sources of this specific spin on the article
are the Daily Mail and the New York Post (SfGate takes a slightly less
sensational approach to the new evidence).

Clearly your crap detector should be tingling when you see these sources as
the main sources and then bang! you find it: There's a new History Channel
show premiering soon about this very escape - Alcatraz: Search for the Truth.

Gee I wonder why this is making the rounds? Will it end just like any other
search for history show in the annals of television: "inconclusive evidence:
the mystery is still out there and we'll keep searching we promise"

This is a different form of PG's Submarine PR hit
[http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html)
and frankly it makes me mad/sad that its so high up on a site like HN.

Feel free to continue downvoting me into oblivion and I'll continue shouting
into the void.

~~~
mindcrime
_frankly it makes me mad /sad that its so high up on a site like HN_

I don't get that mindset. Who cares if it's a "quality" story or not, so long
as it sparks an interesting discussion? And the thing about the HN crowd is,
even the most banal articles can, and often do, spark a really interesting
discussion.

I would argue that upvoting this isn't upvoting this specific link or this
specific story...it's just upvoting the general topic.

------
steven2012
I think they would have found traces of the bodies had they not survived. Yes,
I know there are extenuating circumstances, but they have eventually found
bodies such as Scott Peterson's wife and child many months later. Even a femur
found on the shore would lead to an investigation, so I just find it hard to
believe that body parts weren't found.

~~~
kafkaesq
I wouldn't say it's "hard to believe" that no bodies were found. The bay
currents generally tend outward; and Alcatraz Island sits basically right in
the middle of the outward flow, not too far out from the Golden Gate Bridge.
It's pretty much a straight shot out the bay, actually.

Meanwhile Scott Peterson seems to have made the mistake of dumping his wife's
body somewhere around Richmond, where currents are more stationary. Her body
was also dismembered, increasing the chance that parts of it -- such as the
fetus -- would eventually be found.

------
gambiting
>> Driving home she would often resort to fast food because she was hungry and
exhausted after a 15-hour day slaving over a hot grill.

This bit stuck out to me. How is this even legal for her to work 15 hours a
day?

~~~
rockdiesel
I think you meant to post in this thread -
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10393477](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10393477)

~~~
gambiting
Hmmmm yes, thank you. I don't understand how this happened though.

------
jcslzr
In the excellent book: On the Rock: Twenty-Five Years in Alcatraz, Karpis
claims they did survive

------
mosselman
I like the pointless poll at the end of the article. What?

~~~
techterrier
There's loads of that sort of thing in the Telegraph these days. All those
retired Colonels must find it bewildering.

~~~
branchless
They should have a poll on when the Telegraph is going to close for good. Last
legs.

~~~
joefarish
It looks like they made a profit last year:

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnol...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/11639407/Telegraph-
Media-Group-delivers-operating-profits-of-54.9m.html)

~~~
branchless
Yeah but they have utterly alienated their core readership. You can make a
profit during a fire sale, but not every year.

~~~
teddyuk
my dad is their core readership, has read it for decades - isn't alienated,
doesn't use their web site.

~~~
branchless
well it's pointless dropping anecdota but for what it's worth I know people
who are apoplectic at how trashy it's become online and offline.

Here is some actual data showing readership dropping:

[http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/content/after-decade-
decline-c...](http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/content/after-decade-decline-
could-daily-broadsheet-circulations-be-leveling)

Doesn't look like it's leveling off to me!

Also the Telegraph had a lot of internal conflict recently culminating in
their politics head quitting. Read this and tell me it's not in trouble
coupled with the above data:

[https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/peter-
oborne/why-i-...](https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/peter-oborne/why-i-
have-resigned-from-telegraph)

The last article clearly shows you can make money on advertising and trash
your reputation in one swoop.

They are trying to rebrand to trashy. The recent stuff on Corbyn every day is
simply mental. Clearly they are willing to run it into the ground to curry
political favour.

~~~
spacecowboy_lon
The telegraph was always "trashy" back when it was the "Butlers" Paper they
used to publish detailed reports of society divorces where the times used to
bowdlerize its reports.

And the DT is to the left of the Kippers (Ukip)

Edit: Interesting I worked on the first version of Open Democracy nice to see
its still going.

------
brm
Betteridge's Law of Headlines:

"Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no."

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines)

~~~
eric_h
Except in this case the answer seems to be 'yes' (or at least 'quite
possibly').

~~~
brm
How many of these stories get written this way? Treasure at Oak Island... The
reporter's father killed The Black Dahlia... D.B. Cooper is alive etc...
They're written mainly to sell papers. Until the men are uncovered, the answer
is most probably: No.

