
When Chinese children forget how to write - w1ntermute
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-china-blog-28599392
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fenomas
This will seem like an odd analogy, but for those unfamiliar with kanji to see
what's happening here, I might suggest grabbing a pen and trying to draw
Mickey Mouse or Bart Simpson, or some other simple iconic figure that's always
drawn a certain way. Even though you could recognize it easily, and can recall
the general shape and some of the individual features, unless you've practiced
it you're not sure how many lines you need or where they connect. And if you
just wing it, you'll probably get enough parts right that others can guess
what you were drawing, but the result will look way off, even to you.

For me at least, that's approximately what it feels like to be unable to
remember how to write a kanji.

~~~
eloisant
It is actually a bad analogy, because when you draw Mickey Mouse you're using
your right brain. This is also the case for a beginner in kanji, because he'll
be considering it as a drawing.

When you really learn the kanji (or Han characters to be more generic, kanji
being the Japanese name), you end seeing them with their components, and
you'll be using your left brain to write them - just like when writing
English.

~~~
fenomas
It's the best analogy I can think of, perhaps you have a better one. Note that
when I say "draw Mickey Mouse" I mean the rote reproduction of the standard
iconic character - not the creative act of drawing an original picture. A
well-known corporate logo might be a better example but I couldn't think of
any complex enough.

As for left-brain/right-brain, I doubt that's a useful distinction here (if
indeed it's useful anywhere). But that aside, I don't think it's correct to
suggest that native speakers process Han characters just like English. See for
example:
[http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/123/5/954.full.pdf](http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/123/5/954.full.pdf)

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conistonwater
Language Log has many posts about what they call character amnesia, for
example this one:

[http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=5669](http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=5669)

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mehwoot
Is there any real advantage to having such a complex system rather than (some
level of) a phonetic one like most other languages? Obviously there are
cultural reasons we would still like to be able to read old text and not lose
that, but in general the Chinese system just seems like pain for very little
gain...

~~~
wesleyy
Yes there actually is! English is a language that really favours the writer
while Chinese favours the readers. Most of the time, you can read Chinese a
lot quicker because the characters are all the same size (although they might
have different complexity), and there is generally a lesser need for linking
words to ease the awkwardness of sentences, unlike English, because each
Chinese character carries more of a "concept"/"theme", where as english words
usually have quite precise definitions, and have more specific places where
the words would actually make sense.

This is just my opinion as a native Chinese and English speaker, but I'm sure
other bilingual English/Chinese speakers would tend to agree.

~~~
MichaelGG
A quick search seems to indicate it's almost a tie, overall. That is, Chinese
readers end up reading at about the same speed add English readers. It seems
like an unintuitive result though. From my own mild studies of Japanese and
the kanji, the few kanji I can read, it feels like the information just jumps
right into my mind.

Also apart from the actual reading, which may be a tie, I'm not sure the
complexity cost overall, e.g. teaching, fonts, IMEs, etc. are actually worth
it. What would a designed writing system look like? I think a properly
phonetic/syllable approach like Hangul or even the Kana might be correct.

~~~
wesleyy
Well another thing with Chinese characters is that they are usually made up of
parts, and these parts generally carry a theme. For example, if I have never
seen a specific Chinese character, I can usually decipher its definition
easier than English words because of the parts the Chinese character consists
of. This is similar to roots in English, but these parts are less specific,
and are recycled and reused in many more characters.

I agree that Chinese is not the easiest or best language when all practical
aspects are considered, and this is one of the reason simplified Chinese was
invented, but the social hurdle to completely adopt a different language or
change it even more dramatically would be far bigger than the nuisances that
the language may have.

~~~
MichaelGG
Really? I've been studying the kanji and well this is true enough to build up
a framework to jog memory, it didn't particularly seem enough to have much
predictive power. I can say "oh, I can see how those 3 concepts could be
related", but only after-the-fact. Maybe it gets better when one knows over a
thousand.

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CmonDev
"...many Chinese people consider the creation of Chinese calligraphy to be one
of their primary contributions to civilisation..." \- is this really true?

Anyway there are no reasons to oppose the natural process of more advanced
languages displacing the less advanced ones, apart from political (avoiding
cultural assimilation).

~~~
baconstrp
Chinese calligraphy carries far more artistic dimensions compared to non-
symbolic languages. My grandmother has accrued such a beautiful Chinese font
style over years of practicing calligraphy and being reporter on battlefields.
Her ink writings/letters have been passed down to my parents and taken good
care of as family treasure brought overseas. Being Chinese British I still
occasionally use them as copybook to practice. Even though all everything
about her was told as stories, her handwritings, those strokes & circles,
speaks a decisive, brave and clever woman.

Each character needs to be written in balance itself. Like architecture all
characters itself has a firm pillar stroke and together they also need to fit
into structural of the whole paragraph. Positive or negative, aggressive or
passive meaning can also be expressed by same strokes but sharp or round in
the right place.

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malkia
I'm sorry "English", but the whole idea of "spelling bee" is ridiculous to
begin with, and excuse me "China" \- same goes for you, but in writing...

Give me sane language with small alphabet, and whatever you speak is whatever
you write (and vice versa).

Just kidding!

