
Best Buy Is Thriving in the Age of Amazon - cohaagen
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-07-19/best-buy-should-be-dead-but-it-s-thriving-in-the-age-of-amazon
======
kop316
I can't speak for the Geek Squad (as I have never needed to use them), but
they price match to Amazon (and several other online stores), and will
generally have what I am looking for (at least for consumer electronics). I
know that I will get it that day (vs. Amazon's "two day shipping" that
regularly turned into three or four days) at an Amazon price, it will
certainly NOT be a counterfeit, and I don't have to give my information so I
don't feel like I am being tracked.

~~~
jurassic
Lately my items generally show up on time but badly packaged. I would say 9 of
the last 10 books I bought on Amazon have had some kind of visible damage,
from minor cover dings to folded covers and ripped pages. The worst is when
they put a single book into a bubble envelope that is so oversized the book
can slide around and rotate a full 360 degrees inside the packaging. This is
essentially a trade paperback book in an evvelope large enough to hold a
textbook. I have avoided returns because I don’t want to get banned from
Amazon over my satisfaction with a $12 book (they are known to fire customers
with too many returns), but I have started purchasing the books I want that I
see in indie shops at full list just to avoid this disappointing experience.

~~~
ohitsdom
Fire customers? I've never heard of that. My household is a heavy Prime user,
and we make returns pretty frequently (few times a month). We've never had any
issue.

~~~
PuffinBlue
It's more a ratio thing I think. If you buy a lot you can return a lot and
still have a low return ratio. Plus it makes a difference if you buy and
return only vs buy, return and get a different or replacement product.

~~~
jurassic
Given my rate of book damage, I also have low confidence that the replacement
item would arrive in good condition so exchange seems like a waste if time. I
want to buy things and have them show up undamaged. Is it so much to ask?

------
dropfrog
But that call-in "customer support" is a deal killer. I made an online
purchase, a cheap antenna (thank goodness). It arrived in a box with my
address taped on it but with customized shirts inside. Boxes were damaged
during shipping and when put back together, someone got my stuff and I got
theirs. UPS - "it's not on us, contact Best Buy". So I decided to use this to
test Best Buy's customer support. I call. Foreign accent. I explain very
carefully, slowly, in detail. She didn't listen to a thing I said. Started
asking questions that did not pertain to the situation whatsoever. More
explanation. 10 minutes in. 15 minutes. Finally she says, oh, I have a
tracking number right here and your new shipment is on its way! I said, give
me the tracking number, a little surprised she found the solution so suddenly.
She read it off. It was the identical tracking number of the damaged box I had
just received, and UPS showed it delivered to my house already of course (the
one with the shirts inside). Anything to get me off the line. I called her
bluff and said "That's the same tracking number as the box that was already
delivered and had shirts inside". She said "Well, it's not our responsibility
anyway." Me, "goodbye". Only $15 (and 20 minutes of time) to determine to what
extent Best Buy cares about customer support, and to guide my purchasing
decisions accordingly.

~~~
ApolloFortyNine
I've had similar issues with Verizon support reps. What I've started doing is
if I get the feeling they're not helping, I just hang up and call again. At
least with Verizon I'd say 50% of agents know what they're talking about, so
usually that works.

I know this is a shitty solution (and to be honest, I've never had to do the
same with Amazon) but it does help.

~~~
thaumaturgy
I recently switched to T-Mobile from Verizon, because they were willing to
straight up pay off the phone I bought a few months ago, whereas being a
Verizon customer for a decade has given me basically no benefits whatsoever.

Anyway, there was a screwup with the reimbursement, and the one thing I'll
give T-Mobile's customer service is that any time you contact them, they text
a survey to you afterward, and if you express displeasure through the survey,
man, they are all over that. You get a call back shortly after from someone in
a department dedicated to fixing customer service issues.

I'm pretty sure it's the very first time that responding to one of those
surveys wasn't a total waste of time. I really wish more companies handled it
that way.

------
josefresco
Like most Americans I order a shitload from Amazon. However the last item I
bought from Best Buy was a TV (my old LG just ... died).

Ordered online, chose to pick up in store.

Drive 35 min to store

Pickup process takes 10-15 min

Drive 35 min home.

Left after dinner, was watching it that evening.

The only condition that would have prevented me from using this model would be
traffic, as it could extend the trip by 60-90 minutes and would also increase
my stress significantly.

Whereas Amazon would take 2-3 days (maybe more) and I'd be shitting bricks
worrying about it getting damaged and being forced through the horrors of
shipping a return.

~~~
jmuguy
I ordered a TV from Amazon. They use a third party service that schedules
delivery with you. Two dudes came out with TV, unboxed and set it up (put on
stand, plugged in power to verify its working).

A few days after delivery I noticed a red line running along the top of the
screen. Contacted Amazon about replacement. There was some issue with doing a
direct replacement so they had me purchase another TV and then refunded the
cost.

Dude comes out and picks up busted TV, puts it in box. New dudes come out a
few days later with new TV.

All of that is to say - it really wasn't a big deal to order it online.
Shipping was still free. Also they took packaging material with them, so it
was nice not having to deal with disposing of a gigantic box.

~~~
jumelles
I can't tell whether you're happy with Amazon's service. It sounds to me like
you waited for delivery, got a bad TV, waited for delivery _again_... but at
least you don't have to deal with the box?

No thanks.

~~~
twblalock
He could have gone to Best Buy, drove the TV home himself if he had a car a
65-inch TV would fit in, dealt with the packaging and setup himself, and then
found out it was defective.

It sounds to me like he got pretty good service and avoided a lot of hassle by
doing it through Amazon.

------
LyndsySimon
This is rather off-topic, but the only thing that saddens me about Best Buy is
that it just doesn't feel the same walking in as it used to.

I remember when I got my first job, at age 14, in 1998. I cut, baled, loaded,
hauled, and stacked hay in a barn for a local farmer. It was extremely hot and
tiring work for an overweight geek, but it paid better than anything else I
could have gotten at that age - I was paid by the bale and I want to say it
worked out to about $6 / hour. I saved all summer with nothing in mind other
than "I want to buy a cool tech gadget!"

At the end of that summer I convinced my grandfather to drive me ~90 miles to
the nearest Best Buy, and walking in that day was the best feeling in the
world - a whole store full of cool toys that I didn't have! I walked out that
day with one of the first MP3 players, a Diamond Rio PMP300, and a 32MB
SmartMedia card. I spent about $350 on them, which my family thought was
absurd.

I proceeded to go home and fill it with songs I downloaded from UseNet, and
took it to school. I went to a rural school, and I don't think anyone had a
clue what it was - several people asked me if it was a MiniDisc player. I
explained to them what an "MP3" was.

I wish I could recapture the feeling of walking into Best Buy in the 90s.
These days I have pretty much every tech item I want, and there are very few
things there that can hold my interest. It makes me a little bit sad to walk
through the doors and not be excited about what I'll find. It's pretty much
the very definition of a First World Problem, but it is what it is.

Back then, I wasn't really wanting "toys" as much as I was thirsting for
knowledge and fields to explore. That little MP3 player introduced me to
UseNet, then Napster, and finally Gnutella. It ended up being a pretty big
part of what got me interested in technology in general and development in
particular - I went from "Hey, this is cool, free music!" to "Hmm... LimeWire
is open source, I wonder if I can figure out how to fix this bug..." over the
few years following.

Ultimately, it led me to my career. I wouldn't quite go so far as to credit
Best Buy with that, but it's fair to say that the store contributed a great
deal to building my interest in a technology.

~~~
kevindqc
Wow 32MB? Fills up after what, 10 songs? For 350$, which is like 500$ today?
:( I understand your family reaction lol

~~~
jhgaylor
I suspect the recording were either much smaller (Let's call it 30 songs which
seems insane still if compared to an ipod but it wouldn't exist for several
years.) or there was audiophile quality hardware in it in which case carrying
1 album HiFi wasn't too bad. You could change it out after school the day you
get bored of it.

------
gzu
You really can't beat going into a physical store for a large ticket item
purchase. No waiting for shipping, easy to return, viewing the product in
store.

Recently purchased a MBP from Bestbuy. The first one I received had noticeable
back light bleeding near a screen corner. Walked back in the store the next
day to return. The process from an online retailer would have taken weeks.

~~~
gameswithgo
A while back we had a refrigerator die, and I was like "no problem, I'll run
to home depot and get one".

they could NOT handle it. Everyone seemed annoyed that I wanted to do this.
They have refrigerators on the floor but only a few are for sale, and they can
do delivery in theory but they didn't seem to know if their delivery guys were
available or not.

I went over to Lowes next door and it was the same deal. I was astonished.
Couldn't give them my money.

So yeah I got it online, which was a very smooth experience but was without a
refrigerator for a few days which is not good.

~~~
Bedon292
Yeah I was somewhat surprised when I bought a new washer and dryer. Took my
truck to the store so I would have space, get there, and they are like yeah
its going to be two weeks for delivery. They keep none of those items on hand,
as they are too large. Its all out in a warehouse somewhere else, and they
just aren't prepared for someone who wants something now. It makes sense, but
is not something I thought about before experiencing it.

~~~
rsync
Interestingly, the one place you could do this (walk in and buy a new
washer/dryer/fridge and drive away with it) was Sears which has closed their
stores in many major metro areas and are basically going out of business...

~~~
StillBored
This is only true of a small portion of the sears with warehouse attached (aka
the ones not in malls). Even then, I purchased my last two dishwashers there,
and in both cases it took a couple days to deliver.

If you want something right now, go to one of the scratch and dent appliance
places. Same basic deal as hd/lowes/bestbuy when it comes to appliances, just
about the only ones those stores have in stock are the ones that got returned.

~~~
jsgo
I worked at a Sears when I was younger. The location didn't have a large
warehouse attached (smaller one, but it was only for smaller home and
garden/electronics items), but there was one in town so for some items we'd
sell and they'd go there to pick up. I do recall at points where items were
sold from the store, but that was a rarity.

------
mistersquid
Yesterday, I went into a Best Buy for the first time in ages because I needed
a USB A to USB micro b cable and I was on the road in a small city (fewer than
50K).

I was surprised by how clean, well-organized, and well-staffed it was. When I
asked where such cables were (not having yet left the front of the store
because, not having a lock with me, I needed to stow my bicycle up front), the
associate on the floor came over and directed me precisely and accurately to
where the cables were.

I hope Best Buy figures out how to stick around because the cable I bought is
actually pretty nice (braided cable) and I like having the option to buy
quality electronic accessories from a clean storefront when I'm on the road
(i.e. urgent electronics need and I don't want a low-quality no-name throw-it-
away-after-5-uses knock-off).

~~~
xemdetia
The thing I find Best Buy really useful for is things that actually need to
fit you or do not have a standardized size or really varying quality like
headphones or mice. I get attached to models of both of those items and
eventually they get deprecated and I have to find new ones and the Amazon
experience just doesn't work for those things unless you want to buy 3 and
return 2 that don't work for you.

I also feel like it's the same with phones- you can can go and see if it feels
right in your hand or if you want the XL model or something and since it's not
a mobile phone store primarily it's less apparent pressure then the dedicated
stores for those sorts of things.

I think they do have a place going forward if they keep the experience up, the
other big box places you can buy electronics such as Wal-Mart, Target, and
Staples end up just being depressing supermarket-esque experiences with half
the products on the shelves being out of date by 3 or more years or just being
the absolute bottom of the barrel in quality. It really feels like a struggle
for other stores to carry decent quality middle of the road products, but Best
Buy does well in that aspect.

------
seiferteric
Their prices are not too bad anymore. They usually are about the same as
online prices and returns are easier in store, so I have got a few things from
Best Buy. Most recently a Macbook for my wife was $50 cheaper in Best Buy vs
in the Apple store.

~~~
hinkley
If you don’t want to live in a world dominated by one company, you have to
shop at the other guy as often as you can. That means picking #2 whenever they
are no worse than #1, not just when they are better.

When amazon has no competition left, the experience will worsen. If for no
other reason than that the stockholders will insist.

------
NelsonMinar
Don't forget, Best Buy's Geek Squad has been acting as an extension of the FBI
for awhile. The FBI regularly pays Geek Squad employees to report on suspected
illegal activity worth investigating further.
[https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/03/geek-squads-
relationsh...](https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/03/geek-squads-relationship-
fbi-cozier-we-thought)

------
chris72205
Once Amazon started charging sales tax in my state, it was a no brainer to go
to Best Buy first.

\- Same price (or sometimes less)

\- No waiting on delivery

\- High confidence that I'm getting a genuine product

For me, it's the last point that's most important...especially with more
expensive electronics purchases.

~~~
mieseratte
> High confidence that I'm getting a genuine product

Coming from a guy wearing a $50 pair of counterfeit Billabong shorts right
now, that I bought off Amazon, I agree.

------
at-fates-hands
I worked at the Richfield HQ in 2010 before Joly came in and it was a disaster
working there. Environments would go down and stay down for hours or days. I
would come in at 8am and not be able to work until 1 or 2pm. They had such a
consistent turn over, they would have 3rd party vendors and have no idea who
the contact was or what company actually operated large chunks of their
network. They essentially had a 70-80% contract workforce so the code was
unbearable to deal with. Nobody cared about how bad the code was, they just
cared the site looked nice. The amount of hacks I saw were shocking. Writing a
25 line script to indent an H3 title two spaces? Yeah, that was pretty common.

I left after 8 months. Several of my friends stayed on and noticed how
different it was when Joly came on. Several years on, things have gotten
significantly better. They've modernized a lot of their apps (even through
their website is still clunky and old) and are in the process of revamping
their site to a far more modern stack. Joly cleaned house and brought in
people who want to modernize their software, and from what I know now, the
people who stayed on are a lot happier nowadays.

~~~
fma
I noticed that in the article, Joly gave back the employee discount and said
it was a big morale booster. I think morale is important, especially for
retail. Employees run the business, and store floor employees are the face of
the business.

I've gone to Best Buy mainly for store pickups - but generally a good
experience. One time I was there for pickups, and in general looking for a new
vacuum cleaner...so I wandered over there. An employee approached me with a
positive demeanor and asked if I had any questions, and even asked if I wanted
a demo. I gently declined, she said I can find her if I have any other
questions and she didn't bother me.

I didn't buy my vacuum cleaner from there...I found a clearance at Walmart
that had great reviews. But if I wanted to buy one at retail value (or at
least, non-clearance price) I'd go to Best Buy...good customer service, and
they'll match anyone.

Happy employees = good business. I work for a big company, and management
always does surveys. One of the biggest complaints is we don't get free
coffee. The executives addressed it and responded...no free coffee. Would you
rather want free coffee, or hire more employees? (funny thing is we're not
hiring)

~~~
mmt
> Would you rather want free coffee, or hire more employees? (funny thing is
> we're not hiring)

Indeed, an amusing twist on the traditional false dichotomy: the truth isn't
that you can actually have both, but, rather, that you can't have either one.

------
lolsal
Amazon won me over with "real two day shipping". It was truly glorious when I
signed up. It lulled me into this constant consuming state - shipping was so
fast (and 'free' with prime) I could just mindlessly order any thing without
waiting for a big shipment. I would order from Amazon a few times a day for
days on end - any random thing I remembered I needed. It would all quickly
stream into my house - I stopped even thinking about shipping and delivery
days. It was wonderful.

They lost me with "not really two day shipping." Today, two-day shipping means
"two days from when we ship it, not counting weekends, and not counting
however long it takes for us to actually process the order, and then not even
actually two days." 'Free two-day shipping' often comes in about a week for
me. My constant state of consumption was interrupted by going days thinking,
'where is that thingamajig I needed to finish that project?' \- often
manifesting by ordering something on Mon/Tues assuming it would be here for a
weekend, only to have it not show up in time, forcing me to run to the local
hardware store (or whatever) and then return my Amazon item.

I still buy some stuff on Amazon - mostly things that I don't really care
about when it comes as long as it comes. I've gotten into the habit of
compiling lists at home of stuff that I absolutely need at a certain time and
then making trips to local stores when needed, including Best Buy.

------
Guest9812398
Similar to a lot of people in this topic, I recently visited a Best Buy for
the first time in years, and was impressed with the new interior and layout.

I ended up leaving and buying what I needed on Amazon though. I had limited
time in the store and didn't feel knowledgeable enough to choose between a
handful of products, so I went home to do some research before ordering.

I wonder if Best Buy would benefit from a lounge, where you can sit down in
peace, read product reviews, and browse online to make an informed purchase.
Or maybe they could have tablets on stands next to groups of products with
reviews. For example, you go to the printer section, and there's a tablet that
shows all the printers and their user reviews. Then you can quickly compare
options, sort by price, and see what printers are best reviewed.

Sometimes I try to check reviews in a store with my phone, but I usually feel
out of place standing in an aisle for 15 minutes looking at my phone. So, it
would be cool if they had a place where you could actually sit down for a
while to educate yourself and make a decision.

~~~
spathi_fwiffo
If I'm browsing around a Best Buy, I almost always pull put an item i am
looking at on Amazon, so that I can check for price match and check
reviews/research.

kind of a reverse of the old model of playing with something in store, then
buying it online.

------
danso
I remember years ago on HN, there’d be debates over whether it was ethical or
decent to go into a Best Buy store, then do a price check and order on Amazon,
effectively using BB and other brick-and-mortar stores as showrooms. I
remember the debate seeming split on generational lines, with younger folks
pointing out that BB should adapt or die, and older folks arguing that brick-
and-mortar was at a huge disadvantage no matter how low they cut prices, and
that shuttered stores were a blight on real-life communities.

I still buy most of my stuff of Amazon but the nearby Best Buy stores are good
enough that I see them almost as a premium shopping experience. Not at the
level of Apple of course, but good enough that I’m happy to spend money there.
I think the turnaround moment was a few years ago when I noticed a premium
wireless mouse going for an incredibly low $20. When I tried to checkout, the
cashier said that according to the system, it appeared the mouse was labeled
wrong on the shelf, to the tube of $40 off. But without hesitation he gave me
the discount anyway.

I would’ve predicted back when Amazon released its Price Check app that Best
Buy would be decimated. I don’t use their tech support/consulting so I still
am surprised they are surviving. Ironically, I now take advantage of Amazon in
order to buy at BB. When I see something I like on the shelf, I check to see
if the Amazon reviews are good. If so, I can buy it without the same level of
nagging doubt about the product’s authenticity.

~~~
mikec3010
The moral arguments extend beyond "brick and mortar" vs online. I think the
bigger issue is how they treat their employees. One company uses "third party
contractors " to skirt labor laws and has their employees pissing in bottles
to stay in good standing.

------
bsharitt
Recently I've found myself at Best Buy a few times after not having been in
years. There's a few reasons.

For big ticket items like TVs, Amazon usually isn't much cheaper if they are
at all like it seemed to be a few years ago. Being able to see them in person
and take them home same day is also nice.

Amazon's listings are mess. Sometimes the listing are just skeevy looking and
have missing or wrong information. Even when the listing looks good, I'm not
always sure I'll get quite what I ordered. I've already started to basically
not use 3rd party sellers, but even when Amazon is listed as the seller, I've
gotten items that were clearly used(when they were supposed to be new) or just
not the right item, once being a counterfeit of what I was ordering.

I also noticed that for "gravy" items like cables and stuff, where Amazon was
often 3 or 4 times cheaper, Best Buy is at least not as bad as they were in
the past. They've still got some very overpriced options, but they also have
some more reasonably priced options. So now its a decision to spend $3 or $4
more on that HDMI cable at Best Buy when I get the TV rather than $15 more.
The decision to to spend the couple more dollars at Best Buy for the cable
isn't just convenience, but is bolstered by cheaper items on Amazon being even
more of a crapshoot than they were in the past.

------
gmiller123456
I actually think it's Amazon that has the poor business model, and I'm puzzled
how it's working for them. They are usually not competitive on price compared
to other sites, and sometimes it's the same price off the shelf at Best Buy.
Big ticket items from Amazon usually have free shipping, but it's a 3-4 day
wait unless you pay for "free" shipping by joining Prime. But I quit Prime a
few years ago after 10 out of my last 10 orders arrived late. I can understand
the convenience of using a single website, but when you can find the same
items elsewhere for $30-$40 cheaper, I don't see why more people aren't
shopping around.

~~~
steveeq1
> But I quit Prime a few years ago after 10 out of my last 10 orders arrived
> late

I have a hard time believing this. I've never had late shipments with amazon
nor have any of my friends. Are you exaggerating or is there any omitted
context?

~~~
j79
Prime member for the last 8 years but I'm seriously considering canceling next
year (mostly due to the price hike in Prime).

I've had plenty of items arrive late or not even at all, with stretches where
I've had back-to-back-to-back issues with Amazon, so frustrating that I
considered canceling Prime right then and there (~3 years ago).

A couple times they were delivered to our neighbors house next door (who
dropped them off to us, thankfully) and a few times we had to contact Amazon
Customer Service who just sent us a new one. In general, I trust Amazon to get
me my item, but they're definitely not perfect and I wouldn't be surprised if
OP isn't exaggerating...

BTW, I live in the Bay Area (and not out in the boonies).

~~~
steveeq1
I live in Los Angeles and have had the complete opposite experience. Been a
prime member for 4 years now, I order from them all the time, and shipments
always come on time with no problems whatsoever.

~~~
gamblor956
I live in LA as well. While most of my Amazon purchases arrive on time (and
even occasionally early!), more of them have begun arriving late. My Prime Day
purchases, for example, were originally supposed to arrive same day...but are
currently on track for Saturday and Sunday. I could have just stopped by Best
Buy on the way to work.

------
thomasec
It's amazing how many things Best Buy is doing right that have largely gone
unnoticed over the last few years. While still not perfect, they've done more
than almost any other retailer I can think of to modernize the shopping
experience, while leveraging their existing advantages:

* Local Inventory with Google Shopping - if I search for almost any product on Google, Best Buy is usually the only major retailer that shows me local inventory for that product. I can't believe how few major retailers do this. If I search for an external hard drive on Google, I can see right away if I'm able to go down the street and pick it up.

* In Store Pick Up - this is almost as seamless as picking up an order at the Apple Store. Just yesterday I placed an order for in-store pick up at my local Best Buy. 20 minutes later I received a confirmation email that my order was ready, and all I had to do was show my ID when I showed up to the store. No signing a receipt, or making sure I had the credit card I placed the order with. The whole process took less than 3 minutes, and I could even add additional name(s) of people who were authorized to pick it up for me.

* Open-box items - I know these can be hit or miss, but at least with Best Buy you can inspect open box items before deciding to take them home (as opposed to Amazon Warehouse, where you have to go through the process of shipping it back if it's not what you expected). They even have these "outlet items" highlighted on both their app and website, so I can see which Best Buys around me have a specific open box item I'm looking for.

* Geek Squad Protection - this isn't perfect, and it can be expensive, but it's nice to know that if something goes wrong with a large item (such as a TV or appliance), someone will actually come to my house to check it out. They are also very willing to give you a brand new replacement if the repair is going to be expensive or labor intensive. I know I probably sound like an old fogey, but dealing with factory warranties directly through the manufacturer is always such a pain, and they almost never offer a full replacement.

* Best Buy APP - their app is great! It keeps track of all of my orders, and even tells me when something I've bought has an open recall. I think Target is the only company that does a better job combing both the in-store and e-commerce aspects into a single app.

They've also IMO done a good job keeping the in-store experience consistent
between locations. I'm sure there are still some locations that have less
helpful employees, or less reliable inventory, but this is happening less
often for me.

~~~
kfarr
Yes I'd second the comment on local inventory control in general - unlike
other box stores with "fuzzy" inventory listed online, Best Buy seems to have
a very accurate representation of what is in each store. If I want an item now
I have high confidence that when I go there it'll be there for me to pickup.

------
danielhlockard
Best Buy was great the day my GPU died and I needed a new one by the evening.
Prices were pretty good.

~~~
avgDev
Speaking of GPUs. I bought a ATI card for $600 during a mining craze. I had
issues with blue screens, and they took it back 6 months after purchase and
refunded me full price, even though it was selling for $370 at the time.

Pretty good customer service if you ask me. I mainly want to support local
store because Amazon used to have much better pricing than all the physical
stores, but now it is not the case. However, it is much convenient to find the
item online instead of going to store and finding out the item is not there.

~~~
fireattack
Mining existed when ATI is still a thing?

------
SEJeff
Best Buy still exists mainly because you can go and demo the gadgets. For
certain things, you want to see them in person and they always price match
Amazon for anything Amazon has cheaper.

I bought an 85" 4K tv a few years ago and it was not a cheap item. Do you
really think someone would just buy something for $10k on Amazon and hope it
is ok? I also paid them to have a team of 3 people come and install it on my
wall. This is a case where the local store beat the online store.

------
luddaite
Over the last few months, I decided to try and reduce my Amazon.com shopping
as much as possible. As a result, I have been doing my item finding on Amazon
and then going out and buying the item at a brick and mortar. I find it to be
an interesting reversal. It has also been pretty shocking to see how much
money I save when I don't have a Prime account. It turns out that most things
I want are things that I don't actually need.

------
foxhop
I went to Best Buy recently on a whim to try and _not_ by something from
Amazon.

I had found a product on the Best Buy website, a $79 55-65 inch LCD/Plasma
corner wall mount. So I drove to the store and looked for it. This was roughly
2 months after Christmas.

The store had about 300 units of a $199.99 version and 0 units of any thing
the below $150...

I spent about 15 minutes looking for somebody to tell me what I already
expected, they only carry the expensive one in store.

I bought the same brand (slightly different model number off Amazon.com
[likely to prevent price matching]) while in the Best Buy for $69, shipped to
my house.

It was $10 cheaper, I didn't need to leave my house, I didn't need to talk to
anyone...

Best Buy completely lost my sale because they didn't have inventory and pushed
a more expensive and way higher margin unit ...

I was so disappointed because I really, really tried to _not_ buy from Amazon.

It's no wonder Amazon is eating the world while only being mediocre...
Retailers are simply botching any advantage they have (being local) for the
last 15 years...

(disclosure: I worked for Sears Electronics department part time for about 3
years while going to college [sears no longer sells electronics like
Televisions or radios])

------
dugluak
Last time I went to BB was to buy a Pixel 2 charging cable. A BB employee
helped locate it and reminded me that it's called "USB C" cable not a "Pixel 2
charging cable".

~~~
rcoveson
> "USB C" cable

Would that it were so simple.

------
wpdev_63
[https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/03/geek-squads-
relationsh...](https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/03/geek-squads-relationship-
fbi-cozier-we-thought)

[https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/18/us/politics/charges-
cia-b...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/18/us/politics/charges-cia-breach-
vault-7.html)

All you need into let one of these guys into your house and some child porn
magically ends up on your hard drive.

I'd pay a local IT a bit more knowing that I am supporting a local business
while at the same time not supporting corporate Orwellian culture(TM).

------
classichasclass
What was the "reality check" part about Ms Kordash's day at the end? She sold
a TV, provided what appeared to be prompt and complete customer service, and
the customers seemed to like her. The main drawback -- a relatively older
clientele which may not necessarily be big consumers of the latest shiny --
was more due to the area she was serving. Certainly the level of service is
expensive to provide, but it seems like Best Buy is either able to handle or
at least reasonably aware of that cost.

~~~
zwieback
I was asking myself the same question - maybe that field customer service and
human contact are what makes BB compete effectively with Amazon?

~~~
classichasclass
Maybe, but the choice of words implied that there was some limit on their
aspirations. However, she seemed to do very well in the field and clearly
represented a competitive differentiator. I'm sure Amazon is taking notes.

------
jayzee
In the last year counterfeits have become such a big problem for me that my
trust in Amazon has eroded dramatically. I wonder when that will show up in
their stock price.

------
fred_is_fred
After years of not stepping into one due to them pushing Monster cables with
every purchase I went back to look at appliances. I was pleasantly surprised.
Sales staff was knowledgeable and they had a good selection. A much better
experience than the home improvement stores I went to. Even better - my fridge
went on sale the following week for $500 off my price, they gave that all back
to me as they price-match post-sale.

------
WhompingWindows
If your item has a high price, something like a laptop or TV, it's in the best
interest of the consumer to see it in person, compare it directly with other
models, and potentially walk out with it then and there. The lower the price
of the item, there will be proportionally higher % of total cost to the
consumer in going out to a store, in terms of labor and time spent.

Do I need to spend 25 minutes going out to pick a new phone charger for $10?
My time is valued more highly than that. But for a $800 TV, the % of costs in
the time/effort slice become proportionally much less. It will take me
slightly longer to pick a TV out, but still, an hour of my labor at $35 is not
even 5% of an $800 dollar TV, whereas the time/labor for me to get the phone
charger in person is going to be much closer to 50% of the total cost.

------
tacomonstrous
I don't trust Amazon for technology purchases any more. Best Buy offers the
same level of convenience (next day delivery in most places), with the added
benefit of being able to pick up something same day in-store. No fear of ever
being stuck with counterfeits or missing deadlines on pre-orders.

------
jccalhoun
I will pop into best buy from time to time to see if there are any good open
box items or any cheap blurays. I am always amazed that they continue to give
as much floor space as they do to appliances. I guess they have good profit
margins and someone must be buying them to keep offering them?

------
erikb
In Germany we have Saturn and Mediamarkt, and these shops seem to work the
same way they worked 15-20 years ago. In some regards the products available
even went down, at least in the areas I care about. So really, every time I go
into one I regret it. Not even USB cables are something I want to buy there
because of the small amount of choice, because they are hard to find, and
because they price cheat (i.e. put up a good price in front of product which
actually costs too much; then claiming the way too small string on the price
label says it's for another product), like many physical stores do these days
here.

So I really want to support local, European companies, but there is no
competition to Amazon here. I'd even consider Taobao before I purposefully
would go to a store here.

------
Yhippa
The in-home service is the last thing I'd want. But I have been shopping at
Best Buy way more than I used to.

Here's why. A few years ago I bought a big-ticket item (TV) and obviously
wanted to see it before I bought it. They were able to provide generous no-
interest financing via their co-branded Citi credit card. They have a policy
of offering 12-month no-interest financing on many products and split up over
that much time it's easy to talk yourself into buying things you probably
don't need.

Also the Gamer's Club Unlocked is better than Amazon's game discount system
because it works anytime, not just up until release. I've heard that they have
ended the program though which would just send me back to Amazon.

------
_JamesA_
Fry's doesn't appear to be doing so well. The Austin store reduced it's
product selection during a remodel a couple of years ago.

For a tech city Austin only has 1 Fry's and 1 Altex for serious electronic /
computer stores.

I wish MicroCenter would open a location here.

~~~
tjr225
Had a MicroCenter back in Kansas City...that is a FUN store to go to for
geeks.

------
jefe_
I recently ventured beyond the in-store pickup area of a Best Buy for the
first time in a while, I was pleasantly surprised. It seems they're
positioning themselves as the smart home destination, pretty extensive
inventory in this area, with product samples and descriptions clearly visible.
They've also lowered the shelf heights and the store feels less cluttered
(without feeling like an apple store clone). They also seem to be distributing
inventory across regional stores to offer greater in-store pickup options.
There are several Best Buy stores within reasonable distance to where I live,
and typically at least one has the desired product. Staff seems generally more
friendly as well.

~~~
LargeWu
Reducing the amount of music and movies they sell in store has helped a lot in
that regard. They've reclaimed a lot of that space for the "store within a
store" concept for things like wearables and smart home stuff, which brings a
more inviting, open feel to the stores instead of feeling claustrophobic.

------
ntoeu0nt
What is Best Buy anymore? I recently bought a refrigerator there and it was a
really bizarre experience. It seemed more like a small mall than a big box
store. The appliances were in a section called "Appliances by Pacific Sales",
where Pacific Sales is a chain of stores in LA. We actually bought our oven at
Pacific Sales years earlier. Then they had the "Apple Store at Best Buy," next
to the "Verizon Store at Best Buy." I couldn't really tell whether Best Buy
was directly selling anything or not. It just seemed to be a collection of
stores within the Best Buy store. It was like a small mall, but only with
electronics and appliances. So odd.

~~~
heedlessly3
Not sure what you're expecting. Did people forget what an electronics retailer
is?

A retailer such as BestBuy never sold their own "BestBuy" branded electronics.
Retailers have always been the middle-man between the electronics manufacturer
and the consume, so that the electronics company doesn't need to rent or build
their own stores. It's cheaper for BestBuy to not hire their own bestbuy
salespeople. Instead Verizon and Apple hire their own knowledgeable staff and
put them at Best Buy.

------
ocdtrekkie
Best Buy often has competitively priced weekly sales that beat Amazon
regularly and they'll price match the rest. Their free shipping offer is
reasonable, and in store pickup and return offer a huge advantage Amazon can't
match for near instant transactions at nationwide scale. (Arguably, same day
shipping offers at Amazon are close, but those are only in a few localities.)

I'm not surprised they're doing okay, especially since a lot of their retail
competitors in the electronics, appliance, and movie businesses have closed up
shop. Physical retail will always have a certain draw, when the market for it
is reducing, you just need to outlast your competitors.

------
let_var
I have had good experience (on multiple occasions) when buying consumer
electronic from the Best Buy. They do price matching, you get to experience
the product, and the customer rep was really helpful.

I can't say the same about the snob at the Apple Store.

~~~
maxyme
You have to keep in mind though their "price matching" is basically dependant
on whatever manager is currently working. Ive had them outright refuse a match
on Amazon because the margins for them were too thin, or even add in the cost
of same day shipping to the "matched" price.

------
zpr
One of the main benefits being reported here is the instant purchase, however
with Amazon Prime Now (1-2 hour delivery of some items in metropolitan areas),
this somewhat goes away. I recently used Amazon to buy new computer parts to
upgrade my PC, and when they arrived and I started assembling it, I realized I
had gotten the wrong RAM. So even at 9pm I was able to order 2 sticks of
decent 8GB ddr4 ram and get it delivered that same night by 10pm and finish
the build.

What I prefer about Amazon are the reviews and selection. Even when I'm in
Best buy, I'm on my phone reading Amazon reviews for the products I'm
considering and exploring alternatives.

~~~
mmt
> One of the main benefits being reported here is the instant purchase,
> however with Amazon Prime Now (1-2 hour delivery of some items in
> metropolitan areas)

I remember Amazon came out with this, but I initially dismissed it, thinking
that the selection of items was too limited and never looked again.

I do, still, believe that limited selection is an issue, but what's a far
greater issue is that I'm generally not even aware of what that is, due to
lack of integration with their main shopping experience. Having to go to
primenow.amazon.com and not seeing a "Prime Now" option prominently displayed
for an item on their main shopping site means the option probably doesn't even
occur to most people (as it doesn't to me).

Nowadays, there's also the controversy surrounding how Amazon "Flex" workers
are treated and paid, which can have a more direct effect on the Prime Now
experience.

------
j45
I'm not sure why electronics stores should be dead.

They provide a discovery layer Amazon can't, including a hands on exposure, as
well as Same-day ownership.

It might get interesting if Amazon opens their own electronics stores carrying
their wider selection, though.

------
jetti
Up until a year ago I didn't do much shopping at Best Buy but now I do a
bunch. What changed? I got a PS4 last year and joined their Gamers Club
Unlocked program. $30 for 2 years and I get 20% off all games (new/used/pre-
ordered) as well as double Best Buy points on games/gaming accessories. I also
can get $10 gift card for pre-ordering certain games (which would still be 20%
off). So for FIFA 19, I preordered and saved 20% off list price and then will
be getting a $10 Best Buy credit on my account once the game is shipped to me.
Oh yea, they will ship the game to my house for free too.

------
bluedino
Best Buy often has sales on Macs. Educational discount or just $150-$300 off.
Plus you can save a little more on an open-box.

I'd also much rather go to Best Buy to upgrade my phone. I absolutely detest
going to the Verizon store.

------
justjash
I go occasionally, usually when I am going to make a larger electronics
purchase like a laptop, camera, etc. I still like being able to check out a
physical copy of something and make sure it is what I am wanting.

I still like the breadth of options on Amazon and being able to get a lot of
items to my door in 2 days. It actually happened yesterday where I went to a
local shop and they didn't have what I wanted in stock, either wait 2 weeks
for them to place the order and have it delivered or just get it off Amazon
and have it on my doorstep on Saturday.

------
stephengillie
Recently I've started buying small tech items (wireless mouse, laptop bag,
temp cell phone, etc) from Best Buy again. Being a WA State resident, I'm
paying the same 10% sales tax on Amazon purchases (or near enough to not
care), and not only can I try out items before I buy - I get free, immediate
delivery too, no Prime needed.

Then, after getting the product, no worries about it being counterfeit - like
the pants I bought from Amazon, sold as adult pants but must have been
children's pants, as my foot wouldn't fit through the leg.

------
cpeterso
Best Buy is nice because I like being able to actually handle and try the
products I'm going to buy. Plus buying from a physical store supports the
local economy with jobs and sales taxes.

------
superkuh
A lot of people are talking about the respective pros and cons of dense
metropolitan use of amazon vs. everywhere else and shipping times, and how
they're slipping.

But what really matters to me is the lock-in, or lack of it. When I order from
Best Buy online (I don't go in person anymore) I don't need to pay $100 for
just the privledge of shopping there. That kind of anti-consumer practice I
simply won't abide.

------
rjohnk
I recently bought a washer and dryer at Best Buy. I was thoroughly impressed
with the selection and customer service. They even gave me a deal on the
higher tier model after the ones I wanted were on backorder. I think they
partner with Pacific Kitchen and Home to do the appliances.

Their remodels have gone a long way in getting me back there, personally. I
had otherwise steered clear and was an Amazon/BH junkie.

------
3rdAccount
Funny enough, I just went into Best Buy prior to a long road trip. My phone is
old and has no memory left and I wanted an mp3 player to listen to some
podcasts as well as a splitter cable to listen to an audiobook with my wife. I
found cheap, but high quality products pretty fast. I love Amazon, but
sometimes you need something right now. I'll be sad when all brick and mortar
stores are gone.

------
vlunkr
Looking over the comments, it looks like no ones thinks Best Buy should be
dead. I don't either. Although I usually avoid it because I can't get through
the store without several employees badgering me, it still has a place.
Especially for non-tech people who actually want someone to sell them a
TV/tablet/laptop because there are an overwhelming number of options now.

------
portaljester
I was gifted a 25$ Best buy gift card, I thought I would never remember to use
it. One day the lady is looking at makeup and I see a Best buy. I go in
looking for a new mousepad. The place is full of washers and blenders etc. The
only mouse pad they had was 60$ (extreme gaming blah blah). I ended up
grabbing a Pink Floyd vinyl for 22$. I found it odd but if it works it works.

~~~
beenBoutIT
Buying someone a gift card is another way of telling them that you're a
consumerist idiot who doesn't give a shit about them. "First and foremost, I
don't care about you at all. That said, instead of giving you $20 in cash, I'm
going to give that same $20 to BestBuy and force you to shop there or forgo my
gift in its entirety, because I'm an imbecile." Intelligent people who don't
give a shit about a person will always go cash.

~~~
ryneandal
I'm truly glad I don't see the world in such drastic black and white. Sounds
miserable.

~~~
beenBoutIT
Do you know of someone who migrated from binary black and white to whatever
schema it is that you use to judge others?

------
dzink
They have become the showroom for new or high-margin tech like Oculus, Dyson,
7K refrigerators etc and they collect a hefty margin and shelf fees for the
effort. They make more money B2B than B2C probably. On smaller stuff their
markup is ridiculous ($40-50 for an iphone screen protector that you can buy
in a different brand in a pack of 3 for $10 on amazon).

------
actionowl
I like going in to touch things. I often buy things that I wouldn't online
because I can physically hold them and try them out.

~~~
roter
Agree, with one caveat. When viewing via the website, a large fraction of
items are "Online Only" through their 3rd party resellers. I'd like to touch
but can't. Note: Canadian experience, may be different down south.

------
SketchySeaBeast
I walked into a best buy for the first time in years, and I was surprised how
much it had changed, how modern it looked, and how many staff were there.
Unfortunately it was right after opening, so they all had energy to
continually ask if I needed help, which was a bit obnoxious, though I'm sure
super helpful if you actually needed help.

------
weirdkid
As long as you remember the first rule of Best Buy (never buy cables at Best
Buy), you can find prices as good or better there than Amazon, and I have to
say, the people there are very helpful and friendly. I especially liked their
Magnolia store-within-a-store concept for higher-end audio products.

------
quest88
I bought my camera at best buy and then took a free photography class, hosted
by a best buy employee, the following weekend. It was great!

I've always enjoyed going to best buy and now that I'm an adult I've spent
thousands of dollars there.

------
AtlasBarfed
I would say they are staying afloat, but still pretty far from shore.

Their stores are actually rented out retail space for Apple, Samsung, and
other brands.

Their online is still somewhat of a disaster, they were #2 for a while but
Jet/Walmart will probably pass them as they attempt to challenge Amazon.

Best buy is making no real attempt to challenge Amazon in online retail, a lot
like Target isn't either.

Their IT is divided between dotcom and bricks and hate each other, and their
IT will be lead by dinosaurs in brick and mortar for the foreseeable future,
so the IT innovation that does exist is constrained by executive politics.

Their CEO is just punching the clock and doing what is necessary to trigger
stock options.

So, again, treading water and not floundering, but "thriving"? That's like
saying you're in the guillotine and there's a really nice breeze, and the
blade hasn't been dropped.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Their stores are actually rented out retail space for Apple, Samsung, and
> other brands.

So, it's now largely a convenient place known to consumers that serves to
connect them to third-party sellers where originally it was entirely a direct
retailer itself.

So, it’s like a bricks-and-mortar version of Amazon?

------
emodendroket
There's something to be said for just walking in and buying something you can
hold in your hands and look at, at least if there isn't a tremendous
difference in price.

------
post_break
Best Buy price matches Amazon (for the most part) and if I have to pay tax I
might as well get what I want today, vs in two days. And if it sucks I can
return it to the store.

------
nishantvyas
every-time I go nearby store it's mostly empty... (price/sq.ft. ratio)

I'm also not happy with their price match... I had a BB gift card so went
there with Costco headphone deal to price match, which they did with shipping
of 3 weeks from order day... If you'd have to guess it... yes... shipping
after the Costco deal would expire... I wanted to give benefit of doubt but
when they canceled my order after 3 weeks... it kind of felt like a trap...

------
brynet
At least in Canada, they changed their website quite a bit, accepting PayPal,
having a marketplace with 3rd party sellers, similar to Amazon. Good for them,
honestly.

------
silveira
Sometimes they have some good deals online. I buy and get in the store. In the
store itself, it's kind of a mess. I went to buy an $80 item that I saw online
but the price there was $100, had to talk to manager to get the price (price
matching themselves?).

The thing that makes me usually go to Amazon or elsewhere compared to Best Buy
is the return policy. Best Buy will give you only 15 days to do a return with
refund. Many times 15 minutes is not enough to install the product, test it
and go to the store to return it.

------
socrates1998
I personally don't really like Best Buy, I feel like they are still kind of
overpriced and don't have what I need a lot of the times.

However, I am not really who they want in their store. They want older people
who only want basic stuff and don't know how to use it.

It's a smart play to cater to people who don't know how to do much. There is a
massive market for older people who hate learning how to use their devices on
their own.

------
crtasm
The regular $150 8tb WD Easystore drive deal helped a bit I imagine!

------
floor_
Best Buy sells things through Amazon. I just bought a tv through them.

------
qaq
I buy big ticket items at BestBuy it's much saner for returns

------
taeric
Why should it be dead? Poor management and bad money practices of some other
competitors does not mean the retail segment is dead. Just that over leveraged
companies are risky. No?

~~~
axaxs
Best Buy used to have extremely shady practices, and to some extent still
does. They used to have lower prices online, and higher in store, and IIRC not
match their own website, nor online competitors. As I understand it, this has
changed, their policy looks sane now. Last time I walked in to purchase a
laptop, the only ones available had a small packet taped to them of 'upgrades'
or antivirus or whatever that cost a ton. I had to track down an employee who
had to get a ladder to find the same model with no such attachment.

~~~
emodendroket
They gave me a free antivirus product I never installed with my laptop.

~~~
axaxs
to be honest, I don't remember what it was now. If I remember right it was
some slip of paper that indicated Geek Squad had optimized it and put
antivirus on it. IIRC it was around $100 extra. And it wasn't clearly
indicated, I didn't even notice or find out until checkout.

------
yuhong
I wonder how much the mining GPU shortage helps.

------
Kinnard
I wonder what to what extent this is driven by cryptocurrency mining and other
computationally intensive blockchain use-cases.

