
Escape rooms are big business - axiomdata316
https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2019/8/7/20749177/escape-room-game
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gambiting
The whole industry has sort of collapsed over here in Poland after a tragedy
few months ago where few teenagers died in a fire[0] - their room was actually
locked with no means of emergency exit, which was of course illegal and
against building regulations, but it caused such a stir in the media and
widespread panic that a lot of these businesses just had to close following
the tragedy and the industry hasn't yet recovered.

[0]
[https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/...](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/04/five-
teenagers-killed-after-fire-in-escape-room-in-poland)

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gkoberger
I haven't been in a single US escape room where you couldn't just... walk out.
Most creators in the US are aware of this, and don't take the "Escape" part
too seriously. And of course, in the US, this is heavily enforced.

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the_mitsuhiko
> And of course, in the US, this is heavily enforced.

Is it? How does this work? Are there regular checks and do escape rooms need
to register or how are they discovered?

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CydeWeys
It's standard fire code rules. All doors between occupied rooms and exits must
be unlocked during business hours. Exit doors must have emergency releases
that can open them from the inside. You must have your plans approved for
these and other issues before construction can begin.

~~~
the_mitsuhiko
But that was the case in Poland too by law. The owner locked the door anyways.

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CydeWeys
Compliance with laws varies by country band city.

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gkoberger
I built an escape room in San Francisco! It's a loving parody of startup
culture (Startup Escape), and while I built it because it seemed like a fun
challenge, it's also bringing in a good amount of business still.

If you're in SF and build it custom, you can make some money. If you are in a
random place with low rent and you buy an off the shelf game, you can make a
ton.

If anyone is interested in building one and has questions, ask away!

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evolve2k
I live in a smaller city where I’d say the number of escape rooms is about
equivalent to the number of bowling alleys (less than 5 of each come to mind).

How’s the best way to measure if the market is saturated?

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gkoberger
I think the answers you've gotten are looking at it the wrong way! For bowling
alleys, checking availability is a good way to see if there's room for another
one. Since Escape Rooms have 0 replay-ability, you're not really competing for
"regulars". There's likely hundreds of people who have already done all ~5,
and would be eager to do a 6th.

If those 5 have gotten enough people to come, most of their patrons will
happily come do yours, too. You're not really "competing". In a way, you're
more like a movie than a movie theater.

~~~
walterbell
Excellent point!

Could escape rooms go on tour like theatrical productions? Producers swap
escape room teams/spaces between cities? Professional roadies who are expert
in setup/teardown?

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gkoberger
They do! There's a few companies (SCRAP, PanIQ, The Escape Game) in SF already
that are set up that way. They have a ton of locations, and host games for
1.5-2 years, and then swap them with other locations around the world. SCRAP
also has some deals with media companies to do touring escape rooms; I've
played a Zelda one and a Pacific Rim one.

There's also many companies that sell escape room plans. So rather than
creating your own, you'd spend $5-10k to "buy" one and then build it yourself.
They usually guarantee a X-mile radius that you'll be unique, so that you
aren't competing against the same game.

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neilv
Has anyone mixed up escape rooms with role-playing, or additional
narrative/gimmick? Maybe targeting corporate team-building customers who'll
pay a big premium?

For example, company signs up for an ostensible corporate off-site retreat
meeting that suddenly turns into a team-building (obviously fake) kidnapping.
(Blindfolding, and moving to the maze, kidnappers go elsewhere but can be
overheard arguing about ransom, then the group manages to untie each other,
and try to escape the building, while whispering and evading the occasional
guard, time element when they overhear kidnapper threatening to wait only 10
more minutes for ransom call, etc. There could even be a second part, in which
the team gets to a dead end, with a cache of laser tag toys, obviously to
fight the rest of their way out of the building, and can team-building heal
each other when they get hit.) Followed by refreshments, with messages from
manager/CEO or product brainstorming, etc.

I'm pretty sure the exact above thing would never get past HR at some
companies, but I've heard of big-name dotcoms doing questionable parties and
team events, so maybe enough companies would pay enough for it?

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akerl_
So, I have a rough mental list of “signs that management is off-course in a
dangerous way”. I hadn’t thought to add it before, but I’m now adding “manager
plans an offsite that turns out to be a fake kidnapping where they blindfold
and tie up my team, followed by messages from the manager/CEO”.

I’ve been on several teams that have done escape rooms, and most have some
form of narrative / role-playing (there’s a decent cross section of murder-
mystery, fantasy, etc etc, depending on the folks running the room). But the
idea of tricking people into participating, especially with so many “fake”
hostile elements, is a big red flag. The reason this wouldn’t get past HR at
some companies is because those companies have an HR team that knows a land
mine when they see it.

~~~
neilv
I agree with you. I was actually whimsically trying to think of something that
might appeal to managers who think those "trust fall" team-building exercises
are a good idea. I was going against my own intuition, and ended up with a
terrible idea.

~~~
akerl_
Fair enough. In re-reading my own response, I also think I came across my more
antagonistically than I intended, so my apologies for that.

I do agree with what it seems your overall point was: that “escape room”-style
team-bonding exercises could have merit, and also the idea that escape-rooms
with a strong / compelling narrative are probably themselves more engaging /
thought-provoking. The specific example happens to be bad, and the element of
surprise has issues, but please don’t let that detract from the concept as a
whole.

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bequestry
I dont think you were antagonistic enough; anyone that tries doing this fake
kidnapping better be sure no one on the team has a concealed carry permit,
heart issues, anxiety, ptsd, etc.

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dreamcompiler
When I first saw one of these I went inside and asked what the deal was. I
immediately wanted to try it out as a challenge to myself, but then they told
me it was really meant for groups. Silly introvert me.

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sixothree
You can join a group if they haven't bought all of the slots. It helps if
there are two of you but not totally required.

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elcomet
I don't think that would work. Usually people go with a group of friends or
coworker so you can't just join a random group.

~~~
sixothree
I've been to five location in my city. For all of them you book the room by
slots. If you don't buy all the slots, people can join. If you want the entire
room, you need to buy all of the slots.

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grawprog
I've only been to an escape room once. It was a birthday gift. It was pretty
awesome. There were 5 of us. We had an Alice in wonderland themed room, well
three rooms in total. It was a lot of fun, we all worked together, as far as i
remember each of us ended up solving at least one puzzle. It was like a real
life co op point and click adventure game. I'd definitely recommend it at
least once if you can get a small group together.

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GuB-42
Are repayable escape rooms possible? Surely, some of owners thought about
that.

The way I would imagine that would be better than to have puzzles that can be
switched from a real puzzle to a "trap" puzzle. A trap puzzle would be a red
herring especially designed for people who did the original puzzle.

For example, in the the original puzzle you have to find blue stones that
arrange to a specific pattern that correspond to a code. The trap version
would be a few completely irrelevant blue stones that would be unlikely to
grab attention to the people who didn't do the first puzzle. For example they
could be used as dead weight for a scale-based puzzle or as rubbish the
players has to look through in order to find the real clue.

The idea loosely comes from Danganronpa. An kinda escape room-like video game.
The sequels tend to play with players expectations, sometimes confirming them,
sometimes to turn them against the player.

Edit: I realize it is much easier said than done. However, non-replayability
looks like such a big problem that I guess that it could be worth making a lot
of extra effort.

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ma2rten
Why not just design the room so that you change the puzzles easily?

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krapp
I'm thinking that VR/AR might be a perfect solution to this, but that seems so
obvious that I have to assume the technology just isn't ready yet, or there
are other unknown factors standing in the way. Maybe it just wouldn't be as
much fun.

Still, a mostly empty warehouse and a few sets of goggles seems more cost
effective, and a virtual set would be easier to reconfigure and reload.

~~~
GuB-42
I think the technology is ready. There are some games exploiting the concept,
"I expect you to die" is more or less an escape room.

We can make it a cooperative multi-player game to get the teamwork effect of
real escape rooms. An existing example would be "keep talking and nobody
explodes", a cooperative, semi-VR game.

The thing is, as fun as it is might be, it is an entirely different
experience. On one side you won't get the feedback of real life items and
people. On the other side you can do things that would be too expensive, too
dangerous or simply impossible to do in real life.

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justinator
I went to one here in Boulder, and that was enough for me. Couldn't really
control my suspension of belief (like say, a good movie with a silly, but
engaging plot) to get into to it, and each puzzle just felt like work. You
kinda hope for say, Myst, but in real life, but felt more like a weekly Martin
Gardnir, but just scattered about a room, and I had to pay $35 to solve it. My
mind literally went to chores I'd rather be doing instead being where I was.
All the props just felt like someone went to a thrift store. I should've drank
considerably more before participating - the same feeling you get at like, a
funeral for someone you dont really know.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Its a whole different activity, as a group event. 2 or three friends, yelling
out clues you've discovered, recording them and trying to put them together,
its very engaging.

I'd never consider doing an escape room alone.

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justinator
I was there with ~5 others for a birthday; I never said I was alone. I never
found it engaging though - you'd go through the room and everyone would just
tear it asunder. The time limit on the whole thing made it so efficiency was
the most important part of the, "experience". Again, felt like a job, more
than entertainment.

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prawn
I always thought an angle to try on these was to turn the escape room inside
out. Instead of paying rent, get old cars/buses and build an experience where
people had to get in rather than out. Something you could relocate to another
city or take out to kids parties. Have components in the trunk, under seats,
in roof capsules, glove boxes.

I’m sure bus-based ones have been done, but I haven’t heard of retro-fitting
junk cars.

~~~
mycall
My favorite version was Cube Zero.

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0xcde4c3db
The article seems to really gloss over the fact that the "escape the room"
concept was a media trope or even subgenre before this industry exploded. The
history discussion skips the years that the concept really started becoming
popular in media. The best-known examples are probably in the _Saw_ franchise,
but it's also a popular genre in casual gaming. As far as I remember, it
really took off ~15 years ago with Toshimitsu Takagi's Flash games ( _Crimson
Room_ , _Viridian Room_ , _White Chamber_ ; the latter should not be confused
with the sci-fi horror game _the white chamber_ ). There are other semi-
popular franchises that use the concept within a larger framework, as with
some of the _Saw_ sequels ( _Zero Escape_ , _Danganronpa_ ).

This, in turn, probably has a less direct relationship to films and TV
episodes that focus on a single room to save budget or create psychological
tension (as with the original _Saw_ ), without escape necessarily being a
major theme.

~~~
c256
The article gives a couple possible “firsts” for escape rooms, on of which is
specifically described as an attempt to bring _Crimson Room_ into real space.
Maybe you were just looking for a reference to _Saw_?

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0xcde4c3db
Yeah, I'm not sure how I missed that reference. I looked for several things,
one of which was the Crimson Room series. I probably jumped around too much
while backtracking.

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marcell
I made a site to help people find escape rooms, at www.escapespy.com. Check it
out if your looking for available bookings in your area.

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ericlavigne
This seems very close to being a tool I would use.

My wife and I like to play escape rooms together. There's just two of us, and
we prefer a team size of 5-6. So I often hunt through booking pages for rooms
that already have a team of 3-4 signed up, so that we can join them.

This tool lets me search for rooms that are available (which is almost all of
them) or booked (which I think means fully booked - not clear). I would want
to search for rooms that are partially booked, preferably with 3-4 people and
room for 2 more to join.

Totally separate issue - the hardest part has been finding locations that we
like. So far we've found two that we love a lot: the Great Escape Room in
Miami and the Master Escape Room in Boca Raton. Of course we've played every
room in both places. Yelp reviews are mostly written by people who just did
their first escape room, and even frequent escape roomers like us seem to vary
a lot in preferences.

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marcell
Yea that data (partial bookings) would be great. It’s hard to get reliably, I
have it for some rooms but not others. Once I have more quality on it I’ll
start showing it on the site. At the moment, booked means fully booked.

This site also has a review feature. Please add some reviews :). It shows how
many rooms the reviewer has done, so you know if it’s a new person or someone
with experience.

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k__
I think they should be bigger and the stories longer.

1h isn't nearly enough to get in the mood, especially of they have good a
story but you don't really have the time to read it.

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40acres
Escape rooms are great as a social work outing -- I never expected my manager
to belt out a shrill shreak after a dead hand dropped out of a safe after we
solved a complex puzzle.

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6thaccount2
I really like the idea of escape rooms, but have never had the chance to do
one. My area just had one or two shut down, so I might have missed the chance.

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prvc
>Escape rooms

Referring to a form of structured entertainment; not to be confused with
"panic rooms" or "escape hatches".

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JoeAltmaier
My buddy makes his living building escape rooms (in the US)

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personjerry
Escape rooms are NOT big business because a) no repeat business and more
importantly b) they scale terribly.

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GarrisonPrime
In general I agree escape rooms aren't a great business. But consider:

(a) Although you can't really get repeat business until you create a new game,
as long as you have at least 2 different games available at any one time a
single group can trigger a cascade of business. It only takes one person from
that group wanting to come back to play your other game, and quite often
they'll bring new people. Then, if at least one of _them_ comes back to do the
first room, they'll bring new people as well. Etc. And of course, whenever you
do get around to creating a new game the cycle can repeat.

(b) If you want to spend big bucks to make Hollywood-quality games in big
cities, yeah you're not going to scale well. But if you create "generation 1"
games (basically a series of padlocks, most needing a number or letter code)
put them in everyday, contemporary settings, and focus on serving large
suburbs and smaller towns, you can scale relatively well. Out of the 7 games
I've created thus far, the most popular ones were the quickest and cheapest to
build as they took place in a grandmother's home and a generic business
office. Quite easy to find relevant decor and furnishings dirt cheap.

Yeah, escape rooms are not "big business". But I think what's impressing
people is the ROI given the relatively minimal start-up capital and low
overhead costs. I only spent $4,700 starting up my escape room business and in
its first three years grossed over $100,000 in a tiny mountain town of only
17,000 people. While that isn't gangbusters, it's not bad for a little 20
hours a week side gig.

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knowaveragejoe
Seconded on the scaling aspect. This company has 39 locations, mostly in
medium sized cities. Granted, they are the "generation 1" type games, at least
at the one location I've been to.

[https://breakoutgames.com/](https://breakoutgames.com/)

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Mathnerd314
"Big business"? 2300 escape rooms times a few thousand a month is still only
in the millions i annual revenue. Tiny compared to Google, Facebook, Exxon,
etc. Even frozen yogurt was 1.8 billion in 2018.

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jccooper
The article is not actually about that. It’s a poorly titled submission.

