
Ask HN: How can I make the most out of high school? - TheAsprngHacker
I&#x27;m in high school. Soon, I will be in college. Before, I’ve focused mainly on studying and pursuing solitary passions, but not doing social activities. However, I now feel that I&#x27;m missing out on typical teenager life, and I&#x27;ll have regrets when I&#x27;m an adult.<p>I just watched an anime following a group of close friends in a band as they pass through high school. I&#x27;ve seen people online state that the anime reminded them of their own high school lives, but it doesn&#x27;t remind me of my current life at all; it&#x27;s way too carefree and fun.<p>My online friends have told me that they don&#x27;t have close friends either, so my life is normal.<p>Today, I saw this: https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;AskReddit&#x2F;comments&#x2F;aanfmf&#x2F;whats_a_very_common_thing_that_you_just_cannot&#x2F;ecuao12. Granted, the person is saying that they don&#x27;t relate to looking back on high school. However, the topic is about common things that one can’t relate to, and some repliers said that their own HS lives were carefree. Now, I again feel I am missing something.<p>I like programming, and I&#x27;ve become interested in type theory. I doubt that other people in my school care about this stuff.<p>I take art class, but it&#x27;s a solitary activity between me and my teacher, not together with other students.<p>I don&#x27;t know how to make close friends. I can talk to people, but I can&#x27;t suddenly form a close relationship with somebody. Friendship can’t be forced; it develops naturally. Yet, I&#x27;ve never made a close, loyal friendship, only casual friendships.<p>Before, I&#x27;ve been looking forward to college so I can study my interests. Now, I feel afraid of ending high school.<p>Is it normal that I don&#x27;t have close friends and that I&#x27;m solitary? Am I missing out on anything?<p>What hobbies do you advise me to adopt that I can do in a group, with camaraderie?<p>Will college be the same or different than high school? Can I have the same kind of youthful fun when I&#x27;m an adult?
======
eurticket
Join a group, any group.

Close friendships come with time, make the time for that friend and do things
together even if it's dumb. You're not there to impress them or vice versa but
just the best of them and the best of you sometimes meet up and show the other
person that there is something admirable, in morals and values or skills like
your programming. You have something to share and time is the most valuable.
So make some time with the people you want to be close to.

~~~
viraptor
This. Some ideas I tried (some of them too late - try earlier!): board games,
trading card games, martial arts, dancing, snowboarding, ... - they can all be
awesome social activities. You could look at it as a numbers game - the more
groups you try, the more people you meet. You'll find someone cool at some
point.

> Am I missing out on anything?

From my experience - I wish I tried more at school times. It's much harder
once everyone has their own life / family to take care of.

------
peterlk
> Is it normal that I don't have close friends and that I'm solitary?

This is quite a common narrative. But it is also very easy for it to become a
self-fulfilling prophecy. If you don't believe that it is easy to make
friends, it will be harder to make friends. People are social creatures.
Smile, laugh, enjoy yourself, and celebrate the people around you; and you
will have friends.

> Am I missing out on anything?

Probably, but such is the narrative of life. If you're concerned about unknown
unknowns, then do more scary things. If you like programming and art, try
skateboarding or maybe join the debate team and do some public speaking. Just
do different stuff. You don't have to abandon the things you like, but you
have to make time and space to push yourself into places that are
uncomfortable.

> What hobbies do you advise me to adopt that I can do in a group, with
> camaraderie?

Anything with a group of individuals who are working together. Team sports,
band, some ROTC, debate, school newspaper, . I would also caution against the
impulse to be "better" than everyone else. Camaraderie comes from working
together as a team, not from being better than your teammates. There is enough
available success in the world to go around. There's no need to step on people
to get there.

> Will college be the same or different than high school?

Both. People will still come in all flavors. The amplitudes of their behaviors
will likely be different than what you're used to, but the same behaviors will
be there.

> Can I have the same kind of youthful fun when I'm an adult?

Depends on how you define "youthful fun" and "adult". The available options of
a 70 year old person are much more physically limited than a 17 year old
person. And there is some continuous curve that links those two points. But at
70, you've had a lifetime to accumulate wealth (and maybe some time to blow it
too), so the 17 year old may be more financially limited than the 70 year old.
Do what you can with what you have.

~~~
TheAsprngHacker
Thank you for your advice. In the past, I didn’t care about joining other
clubs and only cared about my programming hobby. Now, I think that I should be
more well-rounded and pick up other activities, especially ones in which I am
more likely to find companions. I will find an interesting club to join.

w.r.t being better than others - I go to a school with a strong academic
culture. In absolutely no way do people put each other down, not at all, but I
feel like there is an underlying motivation to have good ECs to make oneself
attractive to colleges. In particular, you mentioned the debate team, which,
at least at my school, seems to me like a highly competitive club that boosts
college applications. I feel extremely cynical about the culture of people
padding college applications, so I had decided previously to ignore clubs and
only pursue my passion of programming to be “true to myself.” However, now I
feel a desire to join a club out of genuine pursuit of happiness (as opposed
to boosting an application). I hope that I will find a club with a passionate
and genuine culture, without competitive people.

Before, my mother had told me that I should have activities outside school
that I could show for. Part of it was for colleges, as I would have a hard
time competing with others if I didn’t do much outside school. However, my
mother also said that part of it was being a fuller person. I used to feel
frustrated because I felt like she wanted me to do stuff just for college, a
motivation that I felt was “phony,” but now I see what she meant about being
more active in general.

------
crazynick4
In my experience, life has become more fun and carefree since I've become an
adult, not vice versa. It's ironic, as youd expect adult life to be laden with
more responsibity and "seriousness" but the truth is that work is easier than
school (as long as you're not married with children), and you have financial
freedom to pursue your interests. Your adult life can be what you make it.
You're not stuck with the same social group so you're free to associate with
who you want. I wouldn't go back to high school or even college if I had the
chance.

------
ebcode
> Is it normal that I don't have close friends and that I'm solitary? Am I
> missing out on anything?

Given your interest in type theory, it's definitely normal for you to be
solitary. Most mathematicians are. A lot of writers, too, I imagine.

But you _are_ missing out on something, as a lot of us "programmer-types" are,
which is a healthy social life. We can connect with others online, but I think
we'd be fooling ourselves if we thought that being social online can replace
being social IRL.

My recommendation is that you put some work into making a good friend with
similar interests to your own. There's got to be someone at your school who is
also interested in programming. Find that/those person/s and befriend them.
You'll be glad you did.

~~~
TheAsprngHacker
There are some people in my school who program, but they aren’t interested in
type theory. Nevertheless, I think that I would be closer with them if I could
just see them more often in terms of class schedules. I will find time to be
with them more often.

~~~
ebcode
How's it coming? Have you spent any time with any fellow (aspiring) hackers
yet? :)

------
mettamage
I hated high school (Dutch), with a passion. I felt restricted in what we were
learning (set curriculum, almost no extracurricular possibilities), I disliked
most people and it was posh (I'm not) and therefore had a bit of an
overconfident air.

I had fun: I cheated, I skipped classes, my motto was "minimum effort, maximum
freedom." I went out a lot in Amsterdam in order to get my social fix and a
read on what it means to be social (long story short: if you don't like going
out that much, go to places with more interesting music -- jazz, classical,
opera, finger style guitar etc.)

For me the fix was obvious: travel in Europe and make friends. It was obvious
because I had a huge hunger for doing whatever I wanted as opposed to other
people dictating it to me (e.g. set curriculum in high school).

In the end those friendships were short-lived, all of them. But those
friendship did give me the validation of that I mattered (and the insight that
everyone matters really). When I look at Japanese high school animes, I think
of the time where I felt lost in other countries, and gained some friends who
showed me their world in all their wonderful idiosincratic ways.

I'm not saying you should travel. I hope that my story just gives some
inspiration.

In your youth you can follow your desire, the older you get, the more you'll
have to follow responsibilities.

~~~
honzzz
I also hated high school with passion. I loved it at the university though.
That is also where I found the little circle of my closest friends - after 20
years we are still close. I am not sure there is any lesson to be learned for
the original poster except maybe... do not over-think it. Things change
quickly at that age and a year from now your life might be pleasantly
different without doing anything special to achieve that (not that I am
advising against mixing it up a little if you feel like it).

------
probably_wrong
As other people will probably tell you, I hated HS. For technical people it
seems to be a common thread: stories of the type "I was miserable until I went
to Uni, when I found out there's other people who like talking about the Linux
kernel" are everywhere. So I will risk it and say "yes, it's normal to be
solitary in HS if you're a technical person, but College is often better".

As far as hobbies go, it's more about you than about the hobby. I had a
drawing group where we would gather at coffee shops and talk and draw for a
couple hours. Sports are also surprisingly entertaining once you do them
because you feel like it rather than because someone tells you to. I made lots
of friends through martial arts.

~~~
akhilcacharya
>when I found out there's other people who like talking about the Linux kernel

I went to an engineering school with a sizable CS/ECE program but I never
found people like this.

My advice to OP is - go to a university that does have people like this.

~~~
fsloth
"My advice to OP is - go to a university that does have people like this."

Sorry, but that's an unactionable advice. You really can't tell what your
classmates interests will be before the uni starts generally.

Go to the best college you can is a better one.

~~~
akhilcacharya
Generally speaking it correlates well with selectivity and ranking.

------
slimshady94
I know hindsight is 20/20 and it's easier said than done, but probably the
best way to build social skills is to take up a group sport like
football/basketball/frisbee/rock climbing etc. Or join a dance team/music band
after a few lessons. Or take up volunteering. Any physical activity in which
you're part of a team. This is very important, try to succeed in this as
seriously as you study type theory because people skills are important for
whichever career/life path you choose.

------
beetwenty
It bears saying, despite being obvious: You can't have all the experiences the
world has to offer. And the ones that are in media are both constructs of a
prior generation - media is _selling_ the aspirations of the experience - and
inevitably romanticized, with clearly defined characters, conflicts and firm
resolutions. Most real experiences feel ordinary in the moment, with lots of
room to ignore, withdraw, disengage, or disbelieve. Even violence can feel
quite ordinary. I can assure you that most of your classmates are not feeling
their experience as anything but another weekday.

So it's not the experience itself, it's what you get out of it as years tick
by, and perspective can help. Real stories are subtle, with a lot of ways to
retell them differently.

"Carefree" high school life is not innocuous - or rather, like a toddler who
breaks their toys, it's innocuous right up until it isn't, and the friendships
are only lasting in some cases. As a lifelong thing, what will help the most
is bringing a balanced skillset and mindset to the scenarios you find yourself
in. But the skills and attitudes you get from full engagement in high school
life are also some of the _most common ones you will encounter among people of
your generation_ , and they are relatively undirected. It can feel good in the
moment without doing anything to help you down the line, because doing the
most common thing puts you up against a lot of competition.

So, "normal" can just mean setting yourself up for a completely different set
of regrets. It's something that young people cling to desperately in their
adolescent years by way of setting a baseline, but there are a lot of good
reasons to grow away from it and focus on life more pragmatically as an
unending series of opportunities and threats.

College life is more illustrative of the different paths you could take,
because there's more specialization, more extremes of behavior. Some college
kids break down moments after getting there because they discover they are, in
fact, extremely underprepared for life away from their parents. Others can
really thrive and define themselves.

------
aerovistae
Everyone's life is different, man. There is no benchmark that you need to
compare against. Most of my good friends are people I've known for 15 years
who I met in high school. Many people I know kept few or no friends from high
school. Some of those people have great friends from college instead, while
others have few or no friends at all. Some are happy, some aren't-- with or
without the friends. I know two separate girls each with almost no friends who
are both happy as a lark, and I know a few people with more friends than they
can count who are quite depressed.

There isn't a rubric for life.

------
lordnacho
> I don't know how to make close friends.

Don't worry about this. If you can make acquaintances, you're on your way.
Think of close friends as friend seeds that you've watered. I even have such
people from years ago that I keep warm around this time of year. Whether you
become close depends a bit on serendipity. Will you live near each other? Will
you work in the same business? Will you have kids the same age?

So gather up friend seeds, it's pretty easy. Go for drinks with people, hang
out, that sort of thing. You don't have to force yourself to spend a load of
time with anyone. In fact it's impossible in some cases.

As for your interest in coding and math, you've already discovered you can
make online friends. Maybe you'll see more people like you at uni, who knows.
For the moment you at least have online people you can socialize with, and
it's not like they're any less than real people.

------
bredren
Get into minor but not major trouble. Learn what it is like to bend or break
the rules get caught and suffer consequences. Get that out of your system now
if even an inkling of curiousity exists here.

Don’t get into major trouble or do very dumb things that could get people
seriously injured or killed.

------
markkm
Just go to college and study what you like. Contrary to the popular belief,
mathematics and computer science aren't solitary pursuits. You'll meet people
who share your interests and ways of being.

------
rmetzler
Regarding making friends, I would like to share this paper with you: "The
Experimental Generation of Interpersonal Closeness: A Procedure and Some
Preliminary Findings" [0] See the appendix for a great set of questions/tasks
to come closer to another person.

College for me was much better than High School.

[0]:
[https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/014616729723400...](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0146167297234003)

------
bipson
Look, everyone is different and so is his/her path.

While we have some ideals, e.g. as portrayed by pop-culture, it does not mean
that you would even enjoy living this ideal. Your life will be what you desire
it to be, if you are able to make your own decisions.

As someone that flip-flopped between solitary and social phases in his life
(and not only marginally), my only advice would be: whatever you feel like,
just try to enjoy it the best you can.

Life is incredibly short and it is all yours and _you_ will be the ultimate
judge.

Regarding friendships: Especially at your age, friendships can be very intense
and meaningful, and yet so frail and meaningless in retrospect. Again, all
that matters is how you perceive and enjoy it, and that's the point: deep
down, everyone just wants to enjoy themselves. Try to enjoy yourself, and
while doing that, don't hesitate to bond with people that support this feeling
and ideally have similar interests. And take an open look at what they offer
on alternative views and interests.

And don't sweat it, if most bonds are very shallow and superficial, these will
always be the majority (through all your life), and that's OK. And things
might change incredibly fast anyway, especially in high school.

------
HiroshiSan
Paul Graham wrote an essay on this exact question. I read it while in high
school but only after years later aimlessly wandering through life did the
words pierce my soul.

I'd say read this:
[http://paulgraham.com/hs.html](http://paulgraham.com/hs.html)

And really reflect on it deeply, aside from that just try to do things you
won't regret not doing later.

~~~
andai
Thanks for posting this, I was wondering today what advice I'd give my younger
self. Reading this, it turns out I'm still the intended audience for a high
school address :)

------
sl1ck731
Socialize where you can. I say this as someone who is looking at putting
together a wedding party and deciding on a best man. I had some good
acquaintances in high school, then I had some good acquaintances in college,
and then professionally. But no one that can really hit that "like a brother"
spot that stuck through each major change. Beyond all the socializing and
carefree stuff the one thing I wish is there was at least one person who I
knew throughout all the big parts in my life.

------
interesthrow2
Have fun, don't waste these years worrying about the future, you'll get plenty
of time in the next 50/60 years to do that but you'll never get your youth
back.

------
xchaotic
Is it normal that I don't have close friends and that I'm solitary?

Who cares what's normal, but your situation is quite common.

However I'd advise that you force your self to work on the social aspect and
have relationships - friends, colleagues, enemies is all good as long as you
invest some time in that. One good outcome is in high school you can have sex
with your peers - other young people, something that is illegal in the USA to
do when you become older.

------
roflchoppa
this shits a run-on thought so be warned before you read it:

learn to skate, you'll have a quick mode of transport in urban/suburban areas,
you get to meet some cool people, widens your music exposure. Chances are
these skating kids have spare boards, ask if they can help you learn, most
people are down to hang out a little after school and skate for a bit.

Seriously I was in a similar state, but skating helped me branch out to other
groups of people, I ended up meeting cool people through it, and I now surf
with one of the people I met through it. Plus whenever we are in SF i feel
really comfortable street skating.

Be ready to fall, and thats part of the learning, and the balance acquisition.
its a life long skill, but a gift that keeps on giving.

also don't take off the plastics that cover the ball bearings on the wheels,
people say that they "help out" but it really trashes them, if anything get
some Red Dragon Bearings and call it a day, they are super good besides
ceramics. If you have the ability to get a board ($110 new) get something some
Thomas Trucks, Enjoi Board, and some Spitfire wheels.

------
hevi_jos
If you look at facebook, you see what people want other people to see. The
pictures of good things,or beautiful places from travels, and so on, the only
good stuff. The same with the anime.

This is not reality. Reality of friendship or anything in life like dating is
good and bad combined. Sometimes is pain in the *ss to have a close friend or
lover.

You probably want something that is perfect, and you idealize it from the
distance. Friendship is not complicated, you just spend time with other
people, not hard at all.

It is also a routine, you need to gain momentum, it will look hard to break
you current routine(that is comfortable, what is called the "comfort zone"),
but is not, write down an objective you want on paper and look it every day
while doing a little every day to gain momentum.

How could I advice an stranger what hobbies should he adopt. I don't know you,
your tastes, I do not know where you life, your country. This is your job.

in places like the US people is isolated by default, one way to improve is
traveling to a country that is more social for a while like Spain,
Argentina,or Brazil.

Youthful fun? Stop desiring what you don't have. I had fun when I was a kid
but right now it is only memory. Only the present exist. And the past is not
the future.

There are more important things in life than "fun", read "Man's Search for
Meaning" of Victor Frankl.

You could have fun at any stage of your life, you don't need permission from
others for that.

What usually happens is that what other people consider fun, is not fun for
you and vice versa. I get pretty happy spending time in the Woods talking-
discussing about philosophy with other people. Other people consider it
boring.

~~~
hevi_jos
PS:"How to make friends and influence people" is a good book to understand
friendship, it is about others, not you.

By the way, this book has an old version, I think pre WWII or something, and
later versions.

Pick the old one, it is the original. It was later "improved" by the author's
descendants.

------
soneca
I am 39 yo and I am not close anymore to any of my HS friends. But I am very
close to lot of my University friends. I don't think you need to worry about
missing something irreplaceable for life.

Also, do not take other people's memories and nostalgic feelings at face
value. These memories usually filter out the bad, boring, irremarkable stuff
to make the past sound like an anime. Also, it is often compared to struggles
they are facing in the present and wish they could escape.

All that said, I think you do should do something to not feel solitary. I am
not so sure that friendships _must_ develop naturally. Sure, they can't be
_forced_ , by I think they can (should?) be consciously pursued. That's my
approach to keep my best friends close in my adulthood.

Keep an eye open for good people, people who are kind to others and that
happen to have some common interests with you. And if the interest seem
mutual, make an effort to hang out with those people.

For me, the bottom line: make an effort to be nice to nice people and nice
things will happen

------
sheminusminus
> Am I missing out on anything?

Only if you truly feel that you are missing out on something in particular--
something you can describe in unambiguous terms.

The answer to "am I missing out on something?" is always, 100% of the time,
"yes", because of course no single person can experience every possible
'thing', and there are probably tons of experiences you haven't had that
you're glad to have "missed out" on because they're undesirable.

if you know of some that you're really hoping to have before you move on,
those are probably the only ones to even concern yourself with; but, even
then, just know that it's really, really likely that they are things that are
available/doable far beyond your HS years, and at the end of the day, may not
have much to do with the fact that you're an HS student; you may find that
they are things you'd just generally like to experience.

On a more personal note, having been out of HS for almost 13 years now, the
culmination of my high school experience is basically a lot of relief that I
screwed up, made strange decisions, joined in sometimes, missed out sometimes,
got in a bit of trouble, helped some people, was hurtful to some others, and
was generally just totally winging it, while still an HS student.

In college I eventually learned how to learn, and how to think. High school
(for me) was the social version of that. I could have done much more, been
more extroverted, etc, but those feelings dissipated way more quickly that I
thought. A good example of this is the whole dating scene. I met my husband
when we were 16 and 17 years old, and I "missed out" on casual dating for most
of HS and all of college+. There were times I thought of this as a regret, but
it just took me a while to, for lack of a better description, know what I'm
about and what I want out of life; those regrets have been re-contextualized
as "I am so glad I never had to do that."

------
pongogogo
Firstly, it's difficult to get perspective on something when you're in the
thick of it. You may have made better friendships than you realise and these
things will become clearer with time.

Secondly, it sounds like you've lived yr teens a little differently to others,
but there's no right way of doing it, and you'll be richer for some of the
choices you've made and poorer for others, that's part of life. Live without
regrets. It's a cliche but also a truism that you can't change the past.

Finally, the great thing you've done is yr reflecting upon the life you're
leading. The trick now is to actually act upon the changes you want to make
and commit to them. If you can work this loop really effectively (do, reflect,
improve) while also just being able to relax a bit and find pleasure in where
you are right now then I think this is one of the keys to a happy, fulfilled
life.

Good luck!

------
fsloth
I would not trust an online group to form an opinion what is 'normal' and what
is not. An online group is formed of people who were incentivized to join that
discussion because it appealed to their personality. There are probably at
least 500 million english speakers on the internet. This means there can be
subgroups for all sorts of fringe things that have thousands of members, yet
present a tiny fraction of the population. Most of all, the groups you visit
have people who have same types of personalities as you. Hence, you don't know
whether the opinions you get are an overall average, or totally uncommon.

What I mean by this - it's great you are wondering how to to live your life so
it' fullfilling - but an online group is not necessarily the best place to
gauge the quality of your life in the general context as there is no single
optimum for human experience as people are very different. And some people
learn to cherish the things that make their life painfull. And some people
have toxic personalities yet are terribly good at persuading others.

Social proof is an immensly powerfull force yet it is easily manufactured in
this day an age.

That said, many have adviced trying some group sport and I think that's a
great advice. You don't need to like it, and can the stop the experience, but
there is no way to know except by trying.

It's great you are partaking in art. This already gives you a wider context
than just your technical interests.

While wondering how to live your life, you might enjoy reading biographies of
technical people. I would warmly recommend Walter Isaacsons magnificient
books- Innovators, Leonardo da Vinci, Jobs, Einstein and Benjamin Franklins
biographies give a vivid and human description how other technical people with
artistic qualities lived their life.

You don't know what your life will be like, and you are a being of your own,
but often peoples lives have more things in common than not - even across
centuries.

------
Sirenos
> Is it normal that I don't have close friends and that I'm solitary? Am I
> missing out on anything?

Not really. Not everybody needs to or wants to have a huge circle of friends.
And let's face it, it's impossible to have a huge circle of close friends. You
wouldn't be able to maintain the friendships AND your studies, hobbies, etc.

> What hobbies do you advise me to adopt that I can do in a group, with
> camaraderie?

Strength training, hiking, biking, running, dancing, watching
anime/drama/movies in a group -- so many to choose from. Just try out whatever
interests you. You'll end up meeting lifelong friends just doing that.

And trust me, high school is a not a big deal. It's a very small chunk of your
life compared to what's ahead. And what's ahead is much much better.

------
xupybd
Just keep making friends. Keep it a priority and learn to get to know people.
Don't stress too much if it doesn't feel like it's working. If you keep this
as a goal and make the effort it will happen. I don't think you are alone in
this. Western societies are getting more and more isolated. Finding people you
connect with is not easy.

I don't keep in contact with any of my high school friends now. I've made new
ones as an adult. I've changed so much since high school so has everyone I was
friends with so we just don't have that much in common any more. So I wouldn't
stress to much that you're missing out on high school connections.

You will need friends in life but you'll find a way to make them.

------
l33tbro
Every close friendship I've ever made has been based on a mutual understanding
that both of us are flawed.

You will only continue to cultivate superficial friendships if you keep people
out of your interior world, and are unwilling to be there for others to open
up to you.

------
Dnguyen
With most things in life, you get out what you put in. I remembered it was
awkward for me, but I made efforts to hang out with friends. A lot of my
friends didn't have the same interest as me at first, but there's always
something in common that we share, may it be sports or food or movies or just
plain hanging out. As you already know, friendship needs cultivating. Just
like building a relationship. So, go have fun! Keep an open mind and hang out
with people, you'll learn interesting things about them and build a long
lasting friendship bond.

------
theossuary
I remember watching an anime called Erased! that elicited similar feelings for
me, but it was centered around elementary/secondary school. I'm not sure I can
answer your question, I wasn't that close with my highschool class. But two
things I can say are: be your genuine self, and take a genuine interest in
others.

To say anything more specific would really just be me trying to give advice to
my past self, instead of trying to give you advice. Someone you know well may
have more personal insights.

------
a-saleh
Random musings:

There are less rules than you might think, but you are right that developing
close friendships takes time.

On the other hand college can be a nice ground zero, where you don't need to
break into some weird existing cliques where everybody already has shared
language based on years of in-jokes.

But my friendsip building wad reasonably low-effort, but over long time with
consistency :-)

I went to bible-study and enjoyed the more personal setting than the "50
people sing hymn together in a church youth-meeting". I am order of magnitude
less religious than I was back then, but I still remember the time fondly and
keep in touch with some of the people I met there :)

I liked to go swimming with few friends that found the idea "swim from one end
of 50m pool to the other for an hour" relaxing. Every 300m we stop at the end
of the pool and chat. Then we swim again.

I had group of ~4 friends I played board-games together. Or we organized lan-
parties from time-to time. 3 of us then went for a same programme at the same
college and that helped me quite a bit when acomodating in college.

I joined for a few longer (several days) hikes with few people from my class.
I don't keep in touch as much with them, but knowing there are few people I
literally walked like hundred miles along-side is nice :-)

I learned a lot just by walking home with a friend of mine and talking Java
design patterns and algorithms for path-finding through mazes. We did few
projects together, and to this day (10y after we left hs) we still make point
of getting a few beers together or going for Puzzlehunt every few months.

Close-ness is a difficult concept. I.e. with the friend I talked about I
wouldn't call him at 3 AM if I am depressed. I think only one I would wake up
like this might be my wife :) Over a beer we probably would discuss if I am
burned-out at work or simmilar.

I might have few friends I would talk about my kids and raising them and the
usual life-stuff. Former colleagues that I grew to know over hundred shared
lunches and cofe breaks and later on beers in pubs, occasional hike or going
bouldering.

I might have maybe one friend I might talk about more intimate stuff, like if
I had problems in marriage. We have known each other for around 20 years and
we literally met in middle-school.

I do wish you luck!

------
ilovetux
First, I'd like to say that you're doing fine, no worries.

Second, I'd say go out and join a team or two. This is where you will find
deeper connections with other people.

It could be a sports team, a work team, a User Group[0] or anything where you
have to cooperatively participate with others based purely on shared interests
and goals. Just be sure to pick something you enjoy and to participate fully.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Users%27_group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Users%27_group)

------
TheAsprngHacker
I wanted to make this submission longer to better convey how I feel, but I had
to cut it down to 2000 characters (including the title apparently). Therefore,
it may come across as terse and abrupt.

~~~
dang
You can get around that by adding more text in later via the 'edit' link,
which is there for 2 hours after you post.

But I don't think what you wrote sounds terse or abrupt! I hope you get some
value out of the replies.

------
throwaway7658
The less you worry about what you're missing out on the happier you'll be.
Focus on what you can and want to do.

TV and anime makes carefree socializing in high school look better than it is.

Colleee is usually a lot better time for socializing than high school,
espicially if you're ambitious and nerdy.

Find other ambitious nerdy people that share the things you're excuted about.
This will probably be much easier to do in high school.

------
perfmode
I hated high school. Spent all of my time alone. Flunked. Repeated the tenth
grade. Flunked again and dropped out. 5 years later, got e GED and went to a
state school. Found a passion for math and CS. Got good grades for two years
and transferred to Stanford. Found my tribe and discovered a career that I
love.

High school was an oppressive environment.

------
cauldron
Didn't attend US highschool, but from the movies and TV shows I've seen about
it, coolness and popularity seem to be commonly put on a pedestal, I can only
say it's just 3 years of your probable 70+ years' life, so what's cool and
popular for kids in high school maybe isn't as important after it.

------
sannee
> I don't know how to make close friends.

In my experience, it's much easier to do with people you have something in
common. I didn't even know the names of most of my classmates in high school.

> Will college be the same or different than high school?

The best thing about college was the fact that other people stopped feeling
like a bunch of scripted NPCs.

------
tom--
Here's a nice advice page done by founder of Stripe -
[https://patrickcollison.com/advice](https://patrickcollison.com/advice)

You'll be missing out on teenager life as you worry about teenager life, so
don't worry about it and just do what you want to do.

------
sys_64738
Make sure to never listen to guidance counselors. They’re idiots who push you
in the wrong direction.

------
jamilbk
1\. Forget about what's "normal". Instead, ask yourself: "Is this going to
contribute to my broader goals in life?" Having close friends in high school
may offer valuable experiences in social dynamics and managing relationships,
but chances are you won't remain friends with most of those people after high
school, and that's ok.

2\. Definitely research colleges thoroughly and apply to them, but realize
that you don't _have_ to go to college. And certainly not right out of high
school. In some disciplines, such as web software engineering, those 4 years
spent working with real clients could be more valuable for your career than
spending lots of money on a Computer Science degree.

3\. Leverage all the extra-curricular activities you can in order to gauge
your interest in certain subjects. Obviously you can't register for
_everything_ , but pick, say 3 activities to focus on each semester and apply
yourself to them. As life goes on, you'll have less and less carefree time to
explore this stuff.

------
FlowNote
Study your body like you would a machine or a program or a puzzle. Understand
how your muscles respond to stimuli. Figure out how your nerves transmit
intensity. Discover what forces your body to move against your will. Given
your submersion in the hormonal hilarity that is puberty, you're going to
spend a lot of time on autopilot, so step back and observe your body being
commanded by primal forces.

Once you build this map, you can begin to monitor and track how external
factors drive you. Memes, TV, movies, music, conversation... all signals
designed to persuade and hijack your behavior. Spending time here will give
you much needed clarity of self and begin laying the foundation of empathy for
others.

Friends appear once you have this map as you will have unintentionally
filtered out those who will exploit the unexplored regions of you.

Good luck.

------
stealthcat
Birds of a feather flock together. In my experience it's pretty hard to not
stumble with people that clicks with you, wherever you go. Take those chances
to make friends.

------
faissaloo
High School is pretty much useless, don't rely on teachers to teach you
anything.

------
andai
Like you said, you can't force friendship, your best bet is to make more
casual friendships and then develop the ones that are a good match.

I recently began consciously developing my casual social skills (small talk).
I make a point of smiling and greeting people at every opportunity.

Many of my coworkers are silent until spoken to, at which point they smile
with delight and really open up to you.

Beyond that, I would say, clarify as best you can the type of friends you are
looking for. What exactly do you mean by close friends? What kind of things
would close friends do together, or do for each other? Figure out what that
is, and then see if there are opportunities for doing those things in your
existing relationships.

A friend once told me, years after the fact, that a favor I did for him was
very meaningful to him. Nobody had done anything like that for him before, and
it was instrumental to our lasting friendship.

tldr (1) social skills will improve with practice (2) to have a friend, be a
friend

Best wishes

------
strken
I've never regretted saying yes to an offer to socialise in a small group.
It's easy to get lost at a party or a big event, but if you're one of four or
five people sitting in a MacDonalds after class it's easier to talk and make
friends. College will give you lots of opportunities to do things like that,
and they'll be more useful than the massive social events if you're a little
bit introverted.

------
austincheney
My lessons learned from high school:

High school performance is not an indication of real life performance. I
graduated class rank 380 out of 386 because my personal goal was to see just
how close I could cut it without missing the mark. That means I was at that
time a risk seeking personality. I also hated high school, because my high
school is one of the top high schools in the country and is certainly not a
reflection of reality. I was happier isolating myself from the competition
politics parents imposed on their children and I achieved that isolation with
far too great of success. I still got into college just fine and now I make
more money than many of my teenage childrens' friends' parents. This is solely
because I pursue my personal interests far more aggressively than most people.

Many years ago when I was at Travelocity I was a young senior developer.
Somebody I graduated high school with (top ten class rank) came in as a junior
vice president. Her education and life goals were centered around management,
but she had no product or technical goals. She left the company before I did
and is doing very well. It took me later in life to discover my personal goals
and I have been less successful as a result. I suspect there is greater demand
for me in the marketplace and I likely have greater job security and her
though.

You are still a child. Your brain has not fully formed and so you lack the
observational and emotional stability that comes with being an adult. That
said remain calm and don't anything too seriously. Focus on learning all
things from academics, inter-personal relationships, technical things, human
behavior, and so forth. Don't confuse who you are with who you want to be. Be
yourself and do it well.

Use your time in high school to prepare the personal behaviors that will carry
you through the rest of life. Consider things like self-reflection, work
ethic, a lust for learning, written communications, and so forth. Discover
your interests and personal passions and have the courage to share your
interests with others.

Set personal goals. Its ok if you don't achieve your personal goals at that
age, because your interests are subject to change. Goals give you something to
work towards and what is important is that you are working towards something
intentional with great focus. If you do quit your goal prematurely do so
deliberately with a great reason that you can speak to out loud.

You never get your time back. Don't waste your time on frivolous things. Any
activity that contributes to some degree of self-improvement,
listening/communication skills, or social behavior is important.

Fun is what you make of things. It is a matter of perspective. Beware of
people trying to define this for you.

------
graeme
To make lasting friends you have to hang out repeatedly with a group of
people. Then you'll naturally hang out more with some people in a group, and
suddenly you'll realize you're friends.

Also friendships bloody well can be forced (or nudged, anyway). All
friendships start between two people who aren't exactly friends.

"Hey, do you want to X later?" "Yeah sure"

Then you try X, and if you enjoy X, you do Y together later, and eventually
you're friends. Whereas if you don't, you drift off and meet other people.

As far as I can tell, (forming) friendship is just:

1\. Repeat interaction

2\. With people you like

The group helps make it natural. But friendships also form when one person is
outgoing enough to say "hey wanna hangout?"

Maybe you've done that and it didn't work. I was just skeptical when I read
the phrases "friendships have to develop naturally" and "I have never made a
close, loyal friendship". Empirically, you have no evidence of how friendships
_have_ to form - you've never formed one :) I find the "natural" language is
often an excuse used by people to avoid taking the outgoing actions necessary
to nudge a relationship forward. (This applies to dating relationships too -
someone always takes iniative of some sort)

Also if people aren't warming to you, then dressing well and being fit help.
And if you're a man, being strong helps immensely. This might sound silly and
superficial but it's how things work. People respond more warmly to people
they find attractive and/or not embarrasing to be with (within genders too).
And when people are warm to you, you act more warmly to them. This catalyzes
friendships. Simple as that. This could partly explain why you can talk but it
leads nowhere.

You don't need to go too deep into style. Just....make sure your clothes fit
you. Poor fitting clothes affects many an introverted high schooler.

Anyway, no it's not normal to have no friends. Introverts generally end up
with some close friends they interact with one on one. This is normal and
healthy and allows for a lot of solitude. But being totally alone isnt so
good. And some of the best friendships form in high school/college, so it's
good to work on the skill now.

(The group advice is good advice to finding these individual friendships. A
loose group lets you sift through and find closer friends)

Also, since things aren't coming naturally, "how to win friends and influence
people" is a really good guide to doing just that. People who are good with
people intuitively do the stuff in the book.

Also, that's good insight on your part after watching the anime. I only had
the same insight in third year college, I wish I had had it sooner. I do have
close friends now, it's nice.

Btw, as far as afraid of ending high school goes: don't be. You're only 17.
It's good to enjoy high school. But, it you start working on this an figure it
out by 19....you're still really young! Most young people are sortint
themselves out in one way or another. You're not "missing" anythint while you
do that: you're just gettint yourself ready for life. Most nerds were bad at
high school, have poor memories of it, and are fond of college instead. The
carefree high school kids with fond memories were usually either popular or
those who didn't go on to university.

That doesn't mean don't work at it. Do work at it. Just, the goal is to be
able to make friends, at some point in the near future. If you miss the high
school window, you should be fine as long as you're improving.

You may also like these Paul Graham essays:

[http://www.paulgraham.com/hs.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/hs.html)

[http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html)

(Your high school problem may simply be that people at your high school aren't
interested in your interests. See Paul's comments on his high school chess
club. Note also that he weight lifted, and his social life improved after he
became good at soccer and started a scandalous neespaper. Both are things that
improve social status:
[http://www.paulgraham.com/gateway.html?viewfullsite=1](http://www.paulgraham.com/gateway.html?viewfullsite=1))

~~~
solarkraft
> Also if people aren't warming to you, then dressing well and being fit help

I have been way over-valuing this before. While the effect might not be 0, I
think it is a much worse problem for dating and not so much just making
friends. Even then it is surprising how far a bit of confidence will get you.

Don't stress about things you can't change.

~~~
graeme
....you can very easily change how you dress. I wore ill fitting pants for
years. Now my pants fit.

I'm not high fashion or anything; I wear jeans and T shirts. But they fit.
This is pretty simple to fix.

It's not a huge deal for making friends, but it isn't zero.

This may not be OP's problem, and it may not have been your problem, but a lot
of introverted men are _awful_ dressers and it adds friction to hanging around
with them.

------
Broken_Hippo
For some of us, being solitary is the way it is. A range of things is normal,
including being fairly solitary :) I've never really had lots of close friends
either, but I've also found that there are upsides to this - it did, after
all, allow me to move countries without many complications, for example. I did
this in my mid-30's. I happen to move to a more introverted country than the
US - being somewhat solitary definitely helped with this.

I fully suggest things like joining groups if you have them in your area. I
understand that not everywhere has these or not in your interest. Join groups
even if you think everyone else will be your grandparent's age! You never know
who you might find. If you can't join any groups, try to do something
regularly. Do you have a local coffee shop or even a local McDonalds? Go there
once a week, fairly regularly, and drink coffee while you sketch. It is a
great way to meet people (I took a vacation to Amsterdam where I sketched in
coffee shops and other public places - it was wonderful). Plus, art gives me
something to talk about :)

Experience as much as reasonably possible, especially while you are young. The
only other real group hobby I have is tabletop gaming - I go to a friends
house when possible to play overly complicated board games. I've thought about
volunteer work, in part to improve my language skills.

Casual friendships are gold. While it is hard to find close friends - casual
stuff is easier. The grand thing about these friendships is that when put
together, they tend to equal a full friendship. One person might be good for
getting your mind off things while the other might like to listen to some
people's problems from time to time. I tend to have very few close
friendships. Heck, I have only a few casual ones as well, but i'm ok with
that. I'm not sure if I'm missing out on things, but I stopped caring.

College will be partially the same and partially different than high school. I
have enjoyed being an adult much more than I did being a teenager. I'm now 40
and can honestly say I enjoy life much more now. You can have the same kind of
youthful fun when you are an adult. What you find fun might (and probably
will) change. It is normal to be afraid of ending high school, by the way.
Most of us get at least a bit nervous before life changes when things seem a
bit unknown.

One thing that might help your perspective is learning how to frame things in
life. For example, before I moved to Norway after marrying the spouse (who is
Norwegian), I figured that if things went badly and I wound up back in the
US... I'd at least have a good story to tell and a mound of life experience
that wouldn't have happened otherwise. I figured the story itself would make
me more interesting - at least to my standards. This sort of attitude makes
difficult times ever-so-slightly easier and the fear of the upcoming changes
much easier. :)

And this might not have been the best writing, but that's all I'm doing for
now :)

------
glangdale
[apologies, wall of text follows]

A number of other people have suggested sports. I wish I had discovered Judo
and Brazilian Jujitsu younger, but I was a competitive fencer and boxed in
university. All sports give you a pool of people to have shared experiences
with (maybe a bit artificial) whether they are team sports or individual
sports.

The other element of these kind of 'instant friend' activities is that you can
find a kind of 'placeholder' group of people to hang out with who may be able
to introduce you to other people you are more likely to click with. I made
some good friends from groups of people that I largely had nothing in common
with but was hanging out with because of some girl (for example) - but you
might wind up meeting way more interesting people on the periphery of a group
you don't really 100% click with.

My friends in high school were generally 'shared interest' nerd friends
(mostly Dungeons and Dragons as a core nerdy interest).

It's possible to make friends doing pretty much whatever - a lot of friends I
had in university were my peers in CS and other subjects. We had to hang
around in labs and classes together, though (and having a 4th year "honours"
program in CS where we did 100% CS and all had on-campus shared offices was
really good for that). So it's just as possible that you could wind up walking
in, doing your work, and walking out. Cultivating some projects and working
with a group might really help with that. A lot of undergraduates are
considered disposable randos who are just interested in getting a
qualification as quick as possible while accumulating as little extra
knowledge as possible, but if you're interested in type theory, maybe you
should be trying to work with a research group in something you like. Ideally
go for a healthy research group that's actually _at_ the place you want to go,
not something that exactly fits your supposed interested right now (which will
likely change). So if they have a big healthy machine learning group that
welcomes undergraduate research interns vs one cranky weirdo doing type
theory, do the former (that's better both socially and, likely, as research
prep if that's the direction you want to go).

Do try to make sure that you're not assuming activities are asocial when they
aren't, too. Maybe people are getting coffee after art class?

It's very hard to force the issue - I think people are more and more
preoccupied with their phones and previous social connections via social media
than they are interested in meeting new people. I suggest cultivating a lot of
interests (including a wide variety of things), behaving yourself well,
keeping an open mind and seeing what happens.

Of course, maybe you're just solitary by nature. But don't assume stuff. I
substantially reinvented myself in university and essentially declared myself
an extrovert after having been very introverted in HS. Despite some awkward
moments from this forced transition (yes, someone trying to put on an
extrovert skin can be about as dreadful as you might imagine) this was a very
good idea long-term.

