

Plan To Split California Into Six States Gets OK To Gather Signatures - adventured
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/02/19/plan-to-split-california-into-six-states-gets-ok-to-gather-signatures/

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nkoren
I actually think that a lot of good could come from splitting up California.
This would allow the intense stupidity of its politics to be less monolithic,
and would permit more experimentation with policy, which might have a good
outcome.

That said, as a former San Luis Obispan, the notion of being an adjunct of Los
Angeles (see
[http://www.sixcalifornias.info/](http://www.sixcalifornias.info/)) makes me
shudder. And having Los Angeles and Orange County in separate states makes no
sense. If you were going to carve up California along lines of economic and
cultural interest, then I'd adjust the Six Californias as follows:

Jefferson (blue, in the far north) -- looks about right (and has a great
history, worth reading about).

Northern California -- I'd swap Alpine, Mono, and Inyo counties into this
state (from Central Valley), as this creates a state which is dominated by
wilderness, tourism, and natural resources.

Central Valley (red) -- I'd take San Benito from Silicon Valley, to create a
state which is unified by agriculture.

Silicon Valley (yellow) -- I'd shift San Benito to Central Valley and
Monterrey to Central Coast (green), creating a more technology-centric state.

Central Coast (green) -- take Monterrey, but send Ventura and Los Angeles to
Southern California. This is a rural area dominated by nature and tourism, and
shouldn't be swallowed by Los Angeles politics.

Southern California (orange) -- take Ventura and Los Angeles from Central
Coast, so as not to split up the overall conurbation.

Chances of this (or any version thereof) actually happening? Nil -- but it's
kind of fun to think about.

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tansey
Good luck convincing the rest of the country to give your region 10 new
senators.

~~~
dllthomas
Stacking small states until you have CA's population, you have enough senators
to sustain a filibuster. We have 2. This is both undemocratic and
unreasonable.

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twoodfin
The undemocratic part was considered a feature, not a bug.

As to unreasonable: It's a rare issue that unites the smaller states. From a
national political perspective, Vermont and Wyoming couldn't be much further
apart. So I am not persuaded by arguments that assume there is a threat of a
small-state Senate alliance against the overwhelming wishes of the rest of the
country.

On the other hand, if you want to argue that overuse of the filibuster has put
an inordinate amount of legislative power in the hands of the Senate majority
leader and a dozen middle-of-the-road Senators, I agree. But the solution to
that problem is to fix the filibuster, not destroy the Constitutional balance
between states and the Federal government.

~~~
dllthomas
Undemocratic is a feature and a bug. It shifts over firmly into "bug"
territory when it gets too extreme.

 _" From a national political perspective, Vermont and Wyoming couldn't be
much further apart."_

Vermont and Wyoming are strongly united on a number of issues (guns
immediately springs to mind). I'm not the _least_ bit sure that Central
California and Silicon Valley would be united on fewer. The notion that
Vermont and New Hampshire should be separate; Connecticut, Massachusetts, and
Rhodes Island should be separate; Maryland and Virginia should be separate;
but Sacramento, San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Francisco all belong in the
same state is _laughable_.

 _" But the solution to that problem is to fix the filibuster, not destroy the
Constitutional balance between states and the Federal government."_

Right, because when they wrote the Constitution, Jefferson and Madison and
friends carefully laid out California's borders.

When California entered the Union, its population was less than 1% of the
total US population. Now it's well more than 10%. The borders that made sense
when it was a state like Wyoming don't make sense anymore. It has population
like the eastern seaboard, it has industry like the eastern seaboard, it
should have borders more like the eastern seaboard.

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Aloha
Balance of Payments.

Bay Area and LA Area pay the bulk of the taxes in the state - there is a net
transfer of money from the rich counties on the coast to the poorer ones in
the north and east, in short, it would take counties that get many services
paid for and supplied by the state as a whole, to a level that could possibly
resemble a third world country.

California is unmanageable - but its because via the initiative process the
voters have boxed everything into a corner.

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hartator
I don't really see the point, is it for a more strong separation between rich
and poor California?

edit: It seems they target to have a better ratio senators/californians and to
get rid of the debt.

details: [http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/19/tim-draper-six-
californias-...](http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/19/tim-draper-six-californias-
secede-silicon-valley-ballot-initiative/)

~~~
BryantD
It's for a more strong separation between rich and poor California. This plan
would create the nation's poorest state by per capita income (Central
California), and I think Jefferson would also be in the bottom 10.

[http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2014/02/05/rich-
stat...](http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2014/02/05/rich-state-poor-
state-vcs-six.html?page=all) [http://bber.unm.edu/econ/us-
pci.htm](http://bber.unm.edu/econ/us-pci.htm) (per capita income list as of
2012)

~~~
mktgtheweb
Actually, you think Central CA would be the poorest, although that's assuming
policy remains unchanged. Imagine a conservative state within 1+ hr drive of
the bay area, that could eliminate personal income tax attracting workers from
Silicon Valley, affordable housing, better weather, water control (delta), and
agriculture.

~~~
BryantD
Yes, I do, because I'm from New England so I don't have to imagine those
things. I've lived in New Hampshire: a conservative state within an hour drive
of Boston with no personal income tax and housing that's way more affordable
than Boston. These factors don't magically make it more affluent than Boston.

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julienchastang
The problem with the United States is that there are too many states rather
than not enough of them. The states are too small and weak to solve their own
problems (e.g, health care, high speed rail) so they have to rely on a
dysfunctional federal government that can't solve any real problems these days
(e.g., education, immigration, and of course health care).

~~~
FireBeyond
Agreed. You should not be able to drive across a state in less than two hours.

~~~
cafard
Those managing the Delaware toll booths on I-95 seem to agree with you.

However, many eastern states can be traversed in on common travel routes in
about that time. In clear traffic, you can do the Maryland stretch of I-95 in
about two hours. Connecticut and Rhode Island are not particularly large.

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BryantD
Previous discussion here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6957282](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6957282)

That discussion includes some breakdowns of possible voting numbers
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6957513](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6957513)).
I don't think it would be a slam dunk for Republican senators but it would be
a lot more likely. (dragonwriter's followup to my numbers analysis is
important and accurate.)

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thyrsus
How do you convince a Republican to vote for this?

~~~
CWuestefeld
I would think the question is the other way around.

It's a step (possibly a small one) to diluting the DEM monolith that his
California.

Today CA can be depended to field a DEM slate of senators, and send DEM
electors to the electoral college [1]. If broken up, then some of the new
senators would presumably go GOP, as would some of the electoral votes.

It would be fascinating to see the outcome of such a plan. The results would
be interesting from poli sci, economics, and sociology perspectives.

[1] Is CA an all-or-nothing state, or is it proportional? I don't recall.

~~~
dmm
There is no way the other states would allow california to get 12 senators.
Right?

~~~
protomyth
Playing the long game, if the split was right, yep they would because then
California could not pull some of the stunts it has in the past[1]. Textbook
companies are another area that would change because of split CA.

1) latest one [http://www.kansascity.com/2014/02/04/4798111/missouris-
koste...](http://www.kansascity.com/2014/02/04/4798111/missouris-koster-sues-
california.html)

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Xdes
This is a good thing. If bigger states break up then there will be better
representation in congress.

~~~
Aloisius
Except you know... they won't be the same state anymore. It won't be too many
years before they act like six competing states because of competing
interests.

By staying one state, California has the benefit of being one of the most
powerful economies on the planet which, even without having things pass at the
federal government, allows significant world power.

California's car efficiency standards over the years for instance basically
forced every car company that sells a car in the US to up their efficiency.
There is no chance that would happen if it was just 1/6th of California.

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chiph
I guess central CA would get to keep the bear on their flag. West CA could use
a Range Rover as their symbol. South CA might use the Joshua Tree. Silicon
Valley would have the iFlag...

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quanpod
these proposals pop up every season - interesting that it looks like it could
be reasonably balanced (from a senate perspective - central, west, and another
could vote more 'red'), that means Democrats would lose a part of the gigantic
electoral votes CA brings. All in all, probably not going to happen.

~~~
dllthomas
On the other hand, every Democratic president for a long time would have still
won their election if CA had gone the other way.

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EGreg
This is a joke, right?

I ain't buying new flags...

~~~
TallGuyShort
Not a joke, but probably very unlikely. There was recently a motion to split
Colorado into 2 states with very strong support internally, and it went
nowhere.

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wf
I imagine Silicon Valley turning into The Capitol in The Hunger Games.

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bruceb
In other news MySpace wants to regain its lead over facebook.

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poweredbytofu
>>"Supporters of a plan to divide California into six sates"

I would take this news article a bit more seriously if they had spelled
"states" correctly in the first sentence...

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samstave
Yay! More DMV franchises!

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tribe2012
Would this mean everyone in CA would need to get new licenses?

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protomyth
Yes for all licenses with the possibility of different rules. The redone
letterhead will be a major cost (no, I'm not joking).

~~~
jack-r-abbit
Think about all the flags that the whole nation would have to replace.

~~~
protomyth
Think of all the state drop-downs that need to be replaced.

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dba7dba
This isn't about Dem versus GOP imo. It's about Silicon Valley against the
rest of the world.

