
Duke Nukem Forever: barely playable, not funny, rampantly offensive - xyzzyrz
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/reviews/2011/06/duke-nukem-forever-review-barely-playable-unfunny-and-rampantly-offensive.ars/
======
dkarl
I found the review persuasive. The points about misogyny resonated with me,
but everything he criticized about the gameplay resonated as well.

Linear gameplay with cutscenes, bleah. Regenerating health, meh, not in this
kind of game. You can only carry two guns and they aren't fun to shoot -- what
are they THINKING? This is DUKE. I don't know what era they grew up in, but my
action heroes can carry at least six guns, maybe eight, and at least half a
ton of ammo.

Nothing as fresh and silly as the shrink gun was? It was little novelties like
that made Duke fun to play. If you want to make penis jokes, make a penis gun.
If you want to make a joke about homophobia, make a leather gun that decks a
bad guy out in a leather outfit with assless chaps, temporarily incapacitating
his friends as they laugh at him. Blammo -- joke's on them! It wouldn't have
any point against the big bosses since they work alone, but it would be fun to
use anyway -- what is this big blob of alien going to look like in leather? It
would also add some sexual interest without being too misogynistic, since you
could shoot women to give them a bad-ass leather and sunglasses look, which
would give them a lot more class and dignity and real sex appeal than they
usually have in Duke games. Maybe they'd grab a gun and fight on your side for
a while.

How did I just think up a major improvement to the game while writing an HN
comment, and they couldn't do it in... how many years?

~~~
megamark16
Please, create this game, I will buy it. You had me at the assless chaps gun.

~~~
mdaniel
Was it only Quake that had such extensive modding capabilities, or was it Duke
also?

In short, if they stick to the _spirit_ of games from that time, then user
content will show up and you'll both get your wish.

~~~
antihero
Games don't seem to stick around long enough for modders so much nowadays :\

~~~
Roritharr
Thats only half the reason for the lack of mods, the other is that the orignal
game creation sdks are now free or freemium atleast so it wouldn't make sense
to try to mod something if you can get supreme tools for original creation
nearly for free.

------
andrewvc
Its hard to trust a humorless judgement of humor.

While I haven't played the game myself, I'd like to point out to the author of
the article that if attempting to describe why a something isn't funny, the
best weapon in your arsenal would be humor, not simply sticking up your nose
in disgust (though one could mix that in).

That said, a lot of the jokes in the game sound pretty straightforwardly
shitty and weird. However I'm trying to imagine the author describing a Louis
CK comedy set, a dirty comic I find hilarious, and I'm fairly sure he could
ruin that in short order, so I'll hold off on my judgements.

~~~
ineedtosleep
I'd suggest you play the demo before sticking with how you're describing the
article.

I'm a fan of nearly all types of comedy and don't mind the mindless,
'tasteless' humor types. That said, the demo was tasteless AND unfunny.
Considering Gearbox and 2K's recent track record, it's not too surprising --
they've been relatively mediocre at best lately.

~~~
andrewvc
Hey, I can believe that the game sucks in a painfully humorless way, never
said it didn't. I'm just talking about the writing style of the article. If it
was that unfunny, there should have been plenty of material in the article for
the author to riff on.

As is, he sounds like a straight laced bore.

~~~
mishmash
Agreed such a terrible review.

I mean his first reaction was to kill the women - and then shout down the game
for it - considering they explode exactly 5 seconds after the dialogue ends,
so yeah, really tried to avoid that huh..

<http://youtu.be/bbGihyEoOy8>

~~~
StavrosK
How the hell did he miss that? It actually takes three seconds from "we'll get
the weight off, we swear" to them screaming end exploding.

Also, my favorite bit:

"Duke, what's happening to us?"

"Looks like you're... _awkward pause_ fucked."

If that's any indication, I completely sympathize with the reviewer.

------
mahrain
I bought the game the day of the release (having waited for it for twelve
years!) and I must say it's good to be back. I agree with some points, the
loading times are terrible (especially when you're killed and want to get back
in the action sooner) and "boss" levels are hard with the loading times when
you're dead too, but guys, it's Duke Nukem!

A point this author didn't make is that it actually feels like different teams
in different era's worked on the game, some levels have very blurry low-res
textures, other levels are crisp and well-designed.

And as for the "feces"? Picking it up is optional and it dind't cross my mind.
You can interact with the environment 1000 times more than Halo (for instance)
allows you to which is great.

It's a game for people who've waited 12 years for Duke Nukem.

------
DarkShikari
A game is in development hell for years. It "officially dies", then in a
matter of a year or two, a sequel is whipped up by another studio using the
inherited rights to the name.

Did anyone really expect this to be anything besides a cheap cash-in on the
last gasp of the Duke Nukem franchise?

~~~
psykotic
> It "officially dies", then in a matter of a year or two, a sequel is whipped
> up by another studio using the inherited rights to the name.

This is not what happened. Please don't spread lies. The single player game is
exactly what 3D Realms had developed and Triptych finished following 3DR's
demise. Triptych consisted of a bunch of 3DR guys who wouldn't let the game
die and spent close to a year working out of someone's house with no
compensation. The work done by non-3DR/Triptych people was mainly the
multiplayer and the console porting.

~~~
ordinary
There's no reason to call someone a liar when it could just as easily be a
simple mistake. Don't attribute to malice, etc.

~~~
psykotic
He's making stuff up and stating it authoritatively as if it were simple fact.
I'm not sure what else to call it.

------
zemaj
Clearly there is something wrong with me as I found the game throughly
enjoyable. I did go in with low expectations after reading a few reviews.

However I also HATE God of War for its violence and misogyny. quite strange.

------
reitzensteinm
I was on the fence before, but I'm definitely going to play it now.

------
Joakal
For those interested in why it took over a decade to develop it before it
crashed: Learn to Let Go: How Success Killed Duke Nukem
<http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/12/fail_duke_nukem/>

The downfall was perfectionism.

~~~
shaggyfrog
Perfectionism doesn't necessarily result in death marches and a crap product.
Look no further to Valve to see what perfectionism can mean in the games
industry (can I have my HL2:E3 now... _please_?), and of course let's not
forget the obligatory reference to the master of perfectionism, Apple.

The difference between these two companies and the making of DNF? As Steve job
said, "Real artists ship".

------
bryne
"Did everyone really forget that Duke Nukem c1996 was also 'barely playable,
not funny, rampantly offensive?'"

<https://twitter.com/#!/ibogost/status/80475033998327808>

~~~
ineedtosleep
Short answer: No. D3D was never like that.

Long answer: If you were offended by a game where you get pixelated peeing,
some strippers with streamer pasties on their boobs and a few cuss words, yes
it was offensive. This is hardly comparable, though, as at the time there was
nothing like it, unless you include the idiotic outrage from Mortal Kombat.

------
saint-loup
I found this review interesting and more balanced:
[http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/06/13/wot-i-think-
duke-...](http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/06/13/wot-i-think-duke-nukem-
forever/)

------
sorbus
I've been watching a playthrough of Duke Nukem Forever (because I don't want
to play the actual game). Firstly, it looks really, really fun. Not smart, not
something that I would play through multiple times, even if I did play it - it
doesn't compare to Fallout 3 in the least - but fun, in the same way that
watching a mindless action movie can be fun. Secondly, picking up feces from
the toilet is entirely optional, and reflects upon the reviewer as well as the
game. One of the major selling points of the game was that everything can be
interacted with, so what did you expect?

------
whalesalad
I went to high school with a lot of people who weirded me out. This one
particular breed was a combination of a lack of social skills, misogyny, and
self pity. I always wondered what would happen to people like them... now I
know they're making video games for Gearbox.

------
KeyBoardG
I've only played through the first 20 minutes or so and had a blast. Sure its
not cutting edge at all but you can see the old 3dRealms touch of being able
to interact with a lot of things.

Users should set their expectations of the world's greatest game aside and
just taking Duke Nukem Forever with a grain of salt. To me its like an 80's or
90's action movie.

I would have payed to play this even if it was a 2 hour tech demo just to see
what they were working on all this time.

------
mcorrientes
I just finished DNF and I actually liked it.

It's not a game I would like to play more than once but in my opinion, it was
worth his pre order price. I was entertained about 8-10 hours with mini games,
some jokes and first person action.

There're parts which appear unfinished and can't be missed, but DNF can be a
entertaining game if you can look over it.

------
int3rnaut
Nostalgia Forever. I remember playing the older Duke games as a kid (strip
bars anyone?!) and thinking it was an amazing game. Like many people here, I
carried that nostalgia with me for many years to the point where I bought (I
didn't pre-order) DNF--and well... all I can say is, when you grow up your
taste in things change. I wouldn't call DNF a bad game, it's just not
something the adult me wants to play. I know though, if I handed this to my
younger self, I would be quoting the stupid one liners all day at school.
Gearbox made a decent game, they just didn't realize their main demographic
grew up.

------
mirkules
Talking about the joy of exploring the levels, I remember when I first
discovered the hidden room in the first level in DN3D with the jetpack. A
JETPACK! How awesome and novel was that in 1995??

And to think the game was not even true 3D! (You could aim straight ahead,
shoot and hit your friend that was flying in the air). Despite that technical
shortcoming, the game was FUN. I wasted many hours during summer in 1995
playing this game with a friend, and we even made our own levels to play in
deathmatch, figured out novel ways to place laser tripmines, and used
teleporters for nefarious purposes. Sounds like a classic case of "we made it
'cause we can" not because it was fun.

------
athst
There's probably a lesson in here somewhere about letting development on any
software drag on for so long. At a certain point you have to just kill it and
move on with your life. I hope we at least get a case study out of it.

------
trotsky
I think the lesson here is sometimes when a publisher shuts down a studio
instead of letting the game get finished they actually know what they're
doing.

~~~
b0rsuk
Much like stories or novels published after the author's death are generally
bad. More often than not there's a reason why they weren't published. There
are rare exceptions where the novel/story was _interrupted_ by author's death,
but otherwise - beware.

------
hessenwolf
The first paragraph of the article made me laugh at my desk. The rape is not
funny, though.

~~~
hugh3
Unless you're raping a clown.

------
rkalla
Not that it will change anyone's mind, but given that I'm more than half way
through DNF on the PC, here are my thoughts:

\- Graphics on the PC are decent when maxed out on good hardware.

\- Load-times are unbearably long. 25-45seconds on a Dual-core 3.0Ghz machine
(SATA drives, no SSD here) and an Radeon HD 6950.

\- Did I mention load-times?

\- Nudity is abundant and enjoyably breasty (I sincerely doubt MOST of the
people looking down their nose while playing this game don't actually enjoy
this aspect).

\- Level design is boring and feels very "last gen shooter". Not much detail
(although the Vegas back drop during the first 1/4 of the game is decent) and
movement through a level is primarily linear.

\- Guns are boring and feel VERY uninspired. There is nothing "fun" about the
weapons. There isn't a single gun I enjoy shooting. I'm a gun connoisseur when
it comes to FPS; for example, the Turok remake was an OK game (annoying
terrible at parts) but the weapon design and sound work was _fantastic_.

\- Enemies are not fun to fight or kill. Some of the bosses are interesting,
but the enemies you fight the other 97% of the time are either overly
aggressive and beat you down, making you frantic to take them out at the
expense of "having fun" with them (e.g. freeze ray, shrink ray, etc... you are
just panic'ed to kill them) or they have some annoying stupid AI routines
(like flashing in/out of position as their health gets low) that does nothing
for the gameplay and just artificially extends the boring-ass battle.

\- The game isn't funny -- it's not that they don't try, it's just a bunch of
humor that isn't enjoyable anymore. Sort of like popping Bill and Ted's
Excellent Adventure in and not laughing once and trying to remember why you
were rolling on the floor laughing when that movie came out. Or popping in
Wayne's World and trying to remember why you EVER though Dana Carvey talking
strange and both of them stay "SCHWING!" ad nauseum was enjoyable.

\- Monster-truck/mini-car-driving scenes are the most enjoyable so far.

\- Difficulty is not balanced well at all. With 3 or more pig-gorillas on
screen you can get your ass handed to you very quickly on Easy and on Hard you
can take down a boss just as quickly. I don't understand what the difficulty
settings do exactly. Regardless, Easy doesn't feel "Easy" and Hard doesn't
always feel "Hard".

\- For as much time/money/marketing Broussard put behind the "interactivity"
of the world -- it feels really flat. There are a few simulated things (like
pin-ball machines and poker machines) that are fully implemented and a total
waste of effort IMO, at the expensive of plenty of other things being non-
inter-actable. This is a perfect example of "depth" not "breadth" design in
all the wrong places.

\- The game is written/designed around the idea that you care at all about the
fan-fare that is Duke. I don't and I imagine most people playing this game
honestly don't care at all about the Duke character -- given that, a lot of
the enjoyability of being in this all-duke world, being this over-the-top-
character that is super-flat... just means nothing. So what little "umph"
being Duke was going to breath into this just isn't there at all. As a
comparison, it was intoxicating to be Shepard in Mass Effect 2 with all the
characters in the world reacting to seeing you for the first time after what
happened (avoiding a spoiler here) -- in Duke, I am just not entertained by
all the things Duke in this world. IN FAIRNESS, I might have cared in 2004, so
maybe all this stuff was applicable and funny at some point.

You can't slap a single tag on this game like "Offensive" or "Unfunny" or
"Uninspired" and point at that single thing as it's failing... it's all of
them to some degree.

The game is not a glaring flop, it's just mostly boring to play (it feels like
a chore to me), has a few high-light moments (bewbs) and is totally
forgettable.

For $5 rental? Sure pick it up and play it. For $39-49-59? No freaking way. I
can literally think of 100 better games to put your money on depending on your
preferences.

------
trevorgerhardt
Is anyone really that surprised?

------
zoul
I'm not really comfortable about the fact that dozens of adult people have
spent several years of their work and milions of dollars so that other people
can run in virtual environment and throw shit around.

~~~
drivebyacct2
Cheap attack is cheap.

How big is entertainment sports business? How many millions of dollars do we
pay individual players?

~~~
zoul
Tautologies are also very cheap these days :) It wasn’t meant to be an attack,
I’m mostly wondering about the motivations.

It takes a _huge_ amount of work to make such a game, even if everything goes
perfectly well. I know there are interesting technical challenges in the game
and there’s potentially a lot of money and other motivation, but I simply
can’t image myself working hard several years to create a virtual environment
where you can throw shit around and watch women explode because of alien
insemination. (This is a simplification indeed, but the point should be
clear.)

Would you invest the time and effort? If yes, why do you feel it’s worth it?

~~~
catch23
The legendary Carmack has been working on a game called "Rage" for the past 6
years. Six years ago, iphones & androids didn't exist. Game developers do it
because they enjoy it, even if the hard-core-games tend to make less dough
than games like angry birds or guitar hero.

~~~
samth
And if they're building a game full of misogyny and shit-throwing "because
they enjoy it", that's somehow better?

~~~
JabavuAdams
Hey! Misogyny is bad, but (virtual) shit-throwing is just funny!

Angry Turds for iOS. Coming soon. It's a steaming-pile of gaming goodness!

Development was tough. We had to push and push, but we made the drop.

EDIT> I'm just glad to be done with development. Now I can spend more time at
the pool, with the kids.

EDIT2> So, apparently someone already made Angry Turds for iOS. I'm not
affiliated with them in any way.

