
Mangalyaan, India’s First Mars Mission - jayadevan
http://www.nextbigwhat.com/mangalyaan-india-mars-mission-isro-297/
======
kamaal
Those people claiming ISRO does it at a shoe string budget, because they reuse
yes they do. But we are talking of a factor of more 10 here.

Let me put facts on ground. Go and visit any ISRO campus in India. See the
kind of offices they work in, they kind of food canteens they eat lunch at,
they kind of buses they travel in and take a look at how much they are paid. I
assure you will be shocked. In fact shocked will be a mild statement to make.
These people work on ordinary steel tables, with fans over their heads. Eat
the 15 rupee rice-curry meal and travel in 20 year old buses. Well forget all
that. Take a look at pictures of ISRO available over the internet, they look
like to be taken in some one's garage than a space research organization.

Your average MacOS/iOS app development start up has better working conditions
and infrastructure than any ISRO office in India. I'm not talking just about
the work place infrastructure. Even the working gear, stuff like computers
etc.

For the salaries and the net compensation ISRO offers no ambitious well
qualified youth in India would be willing to work there- I'm even surprised
they have even gotten this far. Note, you are comparing a salary for something
like 20K per month with a salary of something like 100K a month Google offers.
You get peanuts for building the most important pieces of technology in the
history of mankind, compared to building websites for sharing cat pictures.

This is working on shoe string budgets to its very extreme. I hope these
people get better funding in the future.

And yeah for those people too worked up about spending some 100th decimal
rounding error of India's budget on a mars project. That is doing far more
benefit to India's reputation, than a yet-another-scam-infested scheme.

~~~
skrish
I used to stay in a paying guest accomodation during my first job. My roommate
was a guy who had just joined ISRO - we graduated same year but from different
colleges. And I also had a chance to interact closely with 2 other friends who
were working with ISRO at that time (one was a senior in college).

His payscale started at Rs.8000 per month (in 2001 that was less than
$200usd). He was a production engineer. He would be up for next revision of
payscale & promotion pending a review in 4 years! He knew that.

I used to wonder what keeps them motivated and I used to constantly question
them. One common thread you find based on these conversations is that they are
extremely satisfied with work - each of them used to say that what they are
working on is UNIQUE that nobody else in ISRO is responsible for. And buck
stops with them. They knew that.

That sense of ownership and the way the employees connect to a much larger
cause is something unbelievable at ISRO, in my perspective. I used to be in
awe of every conversation about his superiors, the work and their perspective
of the organization in general.

I think it is an interesting case study in organizational behavior and what
keeps you motivated with factors other than just money.

Teaching is another profession I think requires similar mindset. ISRO somehow
hires the right kind of people, the employees within the organization are not
so flamboyant setting examples for new hires and helps them connect in a way
it makes people see contribution to a bigger cause.

Just my observation from what I have seen from close quarters.

BTW, it is also given that he knew they get pension after retirement, medical
benefits & all such taken care of for his entire life because he is part of
the organization.

Would love to read if there are any case studies on this.

~~~
anupshinde
As an organization, ISRO is political and bureaucratic. I have a good "set of
friends and family" worked there or working there. There are good people and
bad people (projects) there. You must be lucky to get into the right one. The
pay scale is not competitive - But its not worse. The perks are really good.
i.e Ultimately they get paid a little less than a private cos. The perks from
the governments should not be discounted EVER. I work in a private co. which
is much better than the Infosys/Wipro/etc s.w co's (also with a relatively
much better pay). But I can tell you, ISRO job is better than mine. If I could
opt today, I would go to ISRO.

With a little lesser pay, you also get peace of mind. This might not be
important at 22s or 25s. But at 30, as a husband and a father, I can surely
tell you ISRO gives much better lifestyle. i.e you can work for 2 hours or 16
hours if you enjoy that. Average employee productivity there sucks -
literally. But at that non-competitive pay, government should not expect more.

You also have a "safe-job" and lesser work pressure. There are certain
projects that are high-pressure jobs - but those are rare.

An important factor to keep you motivate might also be "working for your
country". I have worked for large govt. projects for western countries and it
give you ZERO sense of pride. It is "just another project". And I worked for a
very small system for the transportation in my city. And just that feeling of
watching that system being used in my country gives me a hell lot of sense of
pride/achievement. I don't know if everybody feels the same way - but that is
one of the biggest motivation factors for me (I don't work for ISRO / govt)

~~~
kamaal
I agree with all you points.

Coming to ...

>>As an organization, ISRO is political and bureaucratic.

All set ups in India, regardless of private or government owned are extremely
political. I've seen dirtiest form of politics in private companies, hailing
to be champions of meritocracy which can put government firms to shame.

In fact politics in the number one reason which drives nearly every once-a-
great-firm to ground.

------
pavs
Every time India space programs discussion comes out a group of people will
bring up India's poverty and other problem that should be fixed instead of
investing on space program.

I used to be one of those guys (I am from Bangladesh), then I looked at the
actual cost of this space program and realized that its not a lot of money
(~$70 Million) even by India's standard. For example, in india's domestic
cricket tournament (IPL) one of their franchise was sold for $370 million.

I also don't buy the wholesale "you shouldn't do x, unless y is
achieved/fixed" argument. It might apply to some instances, for example india
defense budget is about $46 billion, a big portion of it could have been
certainly spent to alleviate the living condition of poor Indians in general.
But most of the problem in India and other south-east asian countries are
corruption and inefficiencies, not (always) lack of funds.

~~~
bolder88
One of the bigger questions is international aid.

"Since 2007 India has been the world's largest recipient of recorded
remittances from abroad. In 2010 these inflows were worth $54bn (£35bn). UK
foreign direct investment in India is considerable, reaching £1.8bn in the
same year."

You can't really on the one hand claim your country is terribly poor, and
needs handouts from other nations, and on the other play at being spacemen.

Thankfully the UK will stop sending foreign aid to India in 2015.

~~~
factorialboy
Maybe, just maybe, the British should not have colonized and looted India and
parts of Asia and Africa for 300 years?

~~~
bolder88
So you believe that the current British, should be paying money for crimes
committed by their ancestors?

Personally, I don't think people should pay for other peoples mistakes, even
if they happen to be born in the same country.

~~~
g8oz
What if those people are still benefiting from other people's sins? If the
current British don't want to pay maybe they can dispose of the ill-gotten
gains i.e the country estates paid for by black slaves, the textile fortunes
paid for by exploited Indian cotton farmers, the Kohinoor diamond in the Crown
jewels etc.

------
discardorama
Every single time India does something in Space, the bigots come out from the
woodwork: but India is so poor! Let them solve
poverty/hunger/education/water/toilets/ice-cream first, and then worry about
space.

When JFK pledged to put a man on the moon in 1961, the US did not even have
the Civil Rights Act[1]. Millions of blacks lived in poverty, and were denied
basic rights. Schools were segregated. In large areas of the South, blacks
were denied the right to vote. There were lynchings. People were being killed
just for demanding the right to vote. And Vietnam War was picking up steam.

And you know what? The US still said that getting a man on the moon amidst all
this was a worthwhile goal.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964)

~~~
UweSchmidt
Could you state your argument more precisely, please?

The original argument would be "don't do Space, solve
povery/hunger/education...".

You point out that "poverty/hunger/education..." have improved despite Space.

This does only partly contradict the original argument, since there are plenty
of severe and urgent problems today, including some of those from the 1961.

Additionally, can you explain the usage of the word "bigot"? Seems harsh.

~~~
discardorama
> You point out that "poverty/hunger/education..." have improved despite
> Space.

I did no such thing.

I'm saying that you can't wait to solve all problems before you take on space
exploration. They are not mutually exclusive. One can do space exploration
while simultaneously working to alleviate poverty/hunger/illiteracy/etc. The
example of the US in 1961 was meant to illustrate that: the US was fighting a
war in Vietnam, a massive Civil Rights movement at home, and still managed to
put a man on the moon.

~~~
UweSchmidt
Fair enough.

All nations have budgets for a multitude of programs and can work
simultaneously on different goals.

Obviously, they all draw from a single ressource, money, and therefore
priorties have to be weighted carefully.

Overall I'm not getting many good arguments on how to handle this except "Why,
things have improved, haven't they? Give me Star Trek" and "Bigots!".

I suspect that this is because Space fans are on average less affected by the
above mentioned acute problems, more likely to benefit professionally from
investment in space programs, and generally appreciate the nature of space
missions: A difficult task, but with a clear solution through engineering.

~~~
discardorama
You're making strawman arguments. I'm no space fan; I'm just a fan of science
and tech. I believe that a country the size of India can multitask: it can
work on alleviating poverty/hunger/etc. while at the same time spending a
little bit on space exploration. In fact, name any space-exploring country,
and I can point out some social ill that money could be solving.

------
swatkat
Here's a nice FAQ by Emily Lakdawalla of The Planetary Society:

[http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-
lakdawalla/2013/1031123...](http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-
lakdawalla/2013/10311230-india-prepares-to-take-flight-faq.html)

------
shared4you
You can follow the live telecast of the launch:

[http://isro.org/scripts/livewebcast-mars-
orbiter.aspx](http://isro.org/scripts/livewebcast-mars-orbiter.aspx)

[http://isro.org/scripts/livewebcast-
marsorbiter.aspx](http://isro.org/scripts/livewebcast-marsorbiter.aspx)

[http://webcast.gov.in/live/](http://webcast.gov.in/live/)

Text-only updates:
[http://www.isro.org/pslv-c25/c25-status.aspx](http://www.isro.org/pslv-c25/c25-status.aspx)

------
swatkat
T+150 secs. PSLV Stage-1 separated. PS-2 lit.

T+260 secs. PS-2 separated. PS-3 lit.

PS-3 burn out. PSLV enters a long coasting of 28 minutes, after which 4th
stage will be triggered.

T + 32 minutes. Coasting almost done. Stage 4 ignition in few moments.
Altitude is a bit higher due to over-performance.

PS-4 started. 4th stage performance normal. Yay!!

T+44 minutes. PS-4 cutoff. Spacecraft separation success :) Spacecraft
successfully placed in elliptical orbit around Earth. 300 day long journey
begins now.

[http://i.imgur.com/NX9MNsF.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/NX9MNsF.jpg)

------
gopalv
tambrahmrage (well, India's oatmeal) covers mangalyaan

[http://tambrahmrage.tumblr.com/post/66074106804/mangalyaan](http://tambrahmrage.tumblr.com/post/66074106804/mangalyaan)

~~~
ing33k
made my day

------
paraschopra
Here's live webcast from Youtube:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DcSDOkDvyQ](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DcSDOkDvyQ)

------
yogrish
Thanks JD. Good coverage on Mangalyan. For many Indians who are criticizing
this Mission saying that the money would be better spent on toilets or
teachers, this is an eye opener: Why Explore space
[http://launiusr.wordpress.com/2012/02/08/why-explore-
space-a...](http://launiusr.wordpress.com/2012/02/08/why-explore-
space-a-1970-letter-to-a-nun-in-africa/)

------
wil421
I have met a lot of Brilliant people from India that have blow me away on
their technical knowledge. What is stopping them from helping to fix the
infrastructure problem that India has? A lot of educated people seem to be
seeking a way out to another country. While most of the people in India are
living in poverty and have no chance of a decent education.

Forget Mars, for India the problems are too great at home.

~~~
chetanahuja
Unfortunately the massive social problems of India (or any society for that
matter) are not fixable by technology for the most part. For the part that are
susceptible to a technological (and managerial) solution, there's plenty of
interesting work going on.. e.g. [http://www.infowars.com/cashless-society-
india-implements-fi...](http://www.infowars.com/cashless-society-india-
implements-first-biometric-id-program-for-all-of-its-1-2-billion-residents/)

~~~
wil421
Well by technical I mean the engineering fields also. I assume there are
people in the less technology focuses engineering fields such as civil and
mechanical engineering.

But social problems are a different breed. It would be remarkable if India
could do what China is doing infrastructure wise at least. My knowledge is
limited and I am still an outsider looking in at both countries.

Edit: The link you provided mentioned corruption as a big problem in India.
Engineers cant solve that problem.

------
_anshulk
Live youtube broadcast here:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DcSDOkDvyQ](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DcSDOkDvyQ)

------
swatkat
ISRO stream is up: [http://216.185.104.74/isro](http://216.185.104.74/isro)
(needs Windows Media Player).

------
niyazpk
The website seems to be a bit slow, probably because of some traffic spike?

JD, I see that you are using wordpress. If you haven't already installed any
caching plugin, please do:
[http://codex.wordpress.org/WordPress_Optimization/Caching](http://codex.wordpress.org/WordPress_Optimization/Caching)

------
salilpa
India is making baby but firm steps in space exploration. wishing that ISRO
has a success with this mission.

------
hislaziness
Why ISROs Mars Mission is cheapest?

[http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-10-31/news...](http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-10-31/news/43561612_1_moon-
mission-chandrayaan-i-isro)

~~~
jayadevan
Much of the designs & research is "adapted". Hence, cheaper?

~~~
ramgorur
no I think we should think of that good old "the NASA space pen" vs. "the
russian pencil" analogy.

~~~
hittaruki
you did mean that sarcastically right? If not you might want to read this:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Pen#Uses_in_the_U.S._and_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Pen#Uses_in_the_U.S._and_Russian_space_programs)

------
Continuous
I watched the lift off

Good launch and good start. All 3 stages complete. It's in space in a matter
of seconds. Need another 45 mins to declare launch success and 10 months to
reach mars!

------
jayadevan
One would imagine that scientists believe less in rituals. ISRO scientists
pray at the Thirupathi temple before every mission.

~~~
fit2rule
Its not like NASA scientists don't have their rituals too. The Russians, as
well, have a history of sticking to their superstitious habits also.

Science doesn't mean you have to be an emotion-less robot.

~~~
pramalin
India's superstitions are far more deeper and affect common people in their
daily life. Kudos to ISRO on this mission, as they might have faced lots of
opposition to their operations from many sides. Even the Nobel laureate
scientist C.V Raman opposed space explorations in his time, saying that they
are meddling with Gods.

For example, Mars is considered as a malicious planet in their astrology and
people fear its effects next to Saturn. It is hard for one to find a matching
person to marry if he/she is are afflicted by Mars, because one of the belief
is that such afflicted person's in-laws will face untimely death. This belief
causes so much grief for the parents looking for alliance (ref:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangal_Dosha](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangal_Dosha)).

Hopefully scientific missions such as this will help the people to shed their
unfounded fear and live better life.

~~~
svasan
>>> Even the Nobel laureate scientist C.V Raman opposed space explorations in
his time, saying that they are meddling with Gods.

Could you provide some citation here? As far as CV Raman's religious
inclinations were concerned, my understanding is that he was an agnostic [1].

Being a scientist himself, I don't think it would have been in his nature to
stifle the spirit of scientific inquiry in the name of religion.

[1] -
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._V._Raman](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._V._Raman)

~~~
pramalin
I have read about C.V Raman's objections to space missions in Tamil language
sites only.

I dug up the following for your reference:

[http://new.modernrationalist.com/2012/07/science-vs-
religion...](http://new.modernrationalist.com/2012/07/science-vs-religion-
nietzsche/)

------
svirinchi
Well done by ISRO scientists. PSLV was proven vehicle in ISRO's arsenal. They
yet to prove on GSLV.

------
swatkat
Here's a nice step-by-step animation describing the launch, tracking,
spacecraft separation, and solar panel and antenna deployment:

[http://isro.org/launchtosolarpanel.aspx](http://isro.org/launchtosolarpanel.aspx)

------
known
And
[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/indianews/article-24804...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/indianews/article-2480424/VISUAL-
EDIT-India-little-better-Ethiopia.html)

~~~
praveer13
Indian government is already spending billions on poverty problem. Money spent
on this mission is less than 1% of money spent on welfare. You can't stop
everything else and just focus on poverty. Poor people are not the only ones
living in India, there are educated people who need jobs too.

~~~
known
"The significant problems we have cannot be solved at the same level of
thinking with which we created them." \--Einstein

~~~
praveer13
elaborate this gem of a statement please, idiot.

------
swatkat
Report: India PSLV successfully launches MOM en route to Mars

[http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/11/india-mars-debut-
pslv...](http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/11/india-mars-debut-pslv-mom/)

------
japaget
Article on spaceflightnow.com:

[http://www.spaceflightnow.com/pslv/c25/131105launch/#.UnkG4O...](http://www.spaceflightnow.com/pslv/c25/131105launch/#.UnkG4OLi28E)

------
knightsamar
If you cannot get the DD and ISRO sites, you can catch the live stream at
[http://www.livestream.com/spaceflightnow](http://www.livestream.com/spaceflightnow)

------
ved_a
Faster streaming at -
[http://spaceflightnow.com/pslv/c25/status.html](http://spaceflightnow.com/pslv/c25/status.html)

------
anupshinde
Just had a thought - Outsourcing Space Exploration - makes sense?

~~~
swatkat
This is already being done at various levels. Rocket motors, parts, satellites
etc are built by various private companies all over the world. Many space
agencies provide launch and telemetry services. And, now we've exciting new
space-companies like SpaceX, VirginGalactic, Icarus Interstellar etc.

More info:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_Spaceflight_Federati...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_Spaceflight_Federation)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_spaceflight](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_spaceflight)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Space_non-
governmental...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Space_non-
governmental_organizations)

By the way, ISRO has Antrix:

[http://www.antrix.gov.in/](http://www.antrix.gov.in/)

------
ananth99
Thank you for sharing. :)

------
terranstyler
I suppose the mass of 1337 kg increases the PR effect of the tax payer funded
show?

~~~
terranstyler
The rupee is in semi-free fall, the economy is tanking; yet there is a bunch
of downvotes if I point out that Mars missions are paid by the tax payer and
add nothing to the quality of life of an Indian.

Except maybe for the patriots that are unable to distinguish between
government and people. Stupid money spending is nothing to be proud of.

