

Ask HN: At a terrible school, making me depressed. Does name really matter? - nonameschool

I'm currently studying in a less than average school and feel really shitty about it. The name of the institution alone will reduce the chances of being accepted into a great graduate school to virtually zero.<p>When I visit the About pages of all these startups, I see lists and lists of founders and employees from Stanford, Harvad, MIT, etc, and when I read up on new advances in science and tech, I notice that those same institutions seem to produce the best work. I so desperately want to be a part of those circles for they seem to offer a wealth of connections, a valuable community to leverage, and the resources to really do big things, not to mention the credibility and respect.<p>I know people often say that down the road none of this will matter, but from what I see, it certainly does. If you look at the schools that Google and Facebook (among many others) hire from, where some of the most advanced scientific research occurs, and where many of the most influential professors teach, you'll notice that name really does matter. And not having that name basically prevents you from stepping foot into any of those environments.<p>This subject has been a source of quite a bit of depression recently, and I can't seem to shake it. Every day that goes by I read up on the latest news in startups/academia,  and am reminded of where I am and where I'll likely never be.<p>Can you convince me otherwise? Is it really not that bad? Have any of you come from less-than-reputable schools to work in an environment filled with big thinkers and achievers?
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nostrademons
Correlation != causation. I suspect that the reason you see tons of folks from
Stanford/Harvard/MIT at Google or successful startups is because those people
tend to be smart, and smart people tend to rise to the level that's
appropriate for them. I also know a fair number of people at Google that are
pretty awesome but _don't_ come from elite universities. Actually, some of the
best programmers I know at Google come from places like Colgate, Virginia
Tech, Ann Arbor, UT Austin, San Jose State, and no degree at all.

Going to an elite school basically makes things easier. It tilts every initial
interaction in your favor, so that you only have to maintain an impression
instead of creating one. But it won't let you do things that you otherwise
wouldn't be able to do, nor does it give you a free pass for the rest of your
life.

If you get stuck with a bad degree, the way to work around it is to kick ass
in your field. Be the best employee you can be, and then look at how you can
improve things _outside_ your company and be the best _innovator_ that you can
be. Eventually, everybody knows who the real folks are that get shit done. If
you can chalk up a couple big successes, nobody cares where you went to
school.

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T-R
I spent a semester at a less-than-stellar school for CS - the easy 4.0 was
nice, but I know what you mean. Some things I did to help myself feel better
about it:

\- I got ahead - I found some small projects related to the next semester's
material, and had an easy time in a class that others struggled in.

\- I talked to the professors - the students there weren't motivated, but the
professors were nonetheless interested in their own field, and they were
especially happy to find a student who was interested. This is especially key
if you need recommendation letters for transferring, study abroad, or grad
school.

\- I found a better curriculum online. At some point it's going to come down
to what you know, not where you learned it, so just do your best to reduce the
gap between you and people who went someplace with a better curriculum.

\- I transferred out. You don't necessarily have to go that far, though.
Whether you're in a bad job, school, or situation, one of the best things you
can do is to come up with a solid plan to get out of it, or to at least
compensate for it. The light at the end of the tunnel gives you the motivation
to do everything else.

\- I took my general education classes there. When I transferred, I fought to
get credit for them, and so I was able to spend more time on classes in my
major and minor. Also, don't overlook your side interests - things like study
abroad also look good on resumes and the like, and are useful for networking
outside of your field.

Things I didn't do that I wish I had:

\- Went to user groups and conferences and networked. Networking is one big
thing you'll miss out on at a school that's weak in your field.

\- Worked on open source projects, or smaller personal projects. My biggest
mistake in college was lack of balance - I spent a lot of time reading the
best material I could find (and still do), but I've got very little that's
concrete to show for it. In interviews, a nice github account and some
practice coding at a whiteboard goes a lot further than your college's name.

If you're worried about grad school, one thing you could try is picking a
subfield that you like, and getting in contact with professors from schools
that you'd like to go to who are in that field.

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Aqua_Geek
I went to one of the (if not the) top school for my program. Honestly, I came
away feeling very jaded - I felt like the school only cared about itself and
wouldn't think twice about you while you were there but would be sure to
quickly claim you as an alum if you made something of yourself afterward.

That being said, I did meet some amazing people there and it helped me get
through all of the politics. There's definitely something to be said about
surrounding yourself with talented people. But there are other opportunities
to do so outside of the school setting. Look for a local hacker group. Go to
some meetups.

While these schools might provide a springboard to getting to where you want
to go, they are just that - a springboard; they are probably not the end goal.
There was a link posted a few months ago about the idea of everyone wanting a
million dollars. The author's main point was that you don't really want the
million dollars - you want what the million dollars can buy (freedom,
adventure, etc). The second point was that you don't need the million dollars
to achieve these things.

Hang in there!

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stonemetal
Transfer to a better school. It is often easier to transfer than to get in as
a freshmen.

As far as where you went to school not mattering it is all but a lie. Your
first job out of college pretty much depends on where you went to school and
how you did. That second job may not depend on where you went to school but it
certainly depends on that first job which depends on where you went to school.
On the other hand is it really that big a deal if you never work at Facebook?

In the end is more about what you do and what you are capable of than where
you went to school or where you worked for that matter, a fulfilling life
doesn't come from external sources but internal ones.

~~~
nostrademons
There are various "career resets" that you can use to get out of the
preprogrammed track of college -> first job -> second job etc. One of the big
ones is open-source software; it's done entirely on your own, so you don't
need to ask permission for anything and are limited only by your own
creativity. Another is founding a company, for the same reason, but with more
risk. A third is going to grad school, if one will accept you.

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ZackOfAllTrades
Same situation as you. We have Stroustrup himself here at Texas A&M, so all
anybody ever uses is C++[0]. My intro teacher to 121 actually told us to us
the Waterfall method by name. All anybody wants to do is go into the video
game industry/play flash dames. Pretty awful, but you can teach yourself a
surprising amount of CS. I learned enough JavaScript that some of my side
projects got me an internship at a "big-name" company.

Also, it seems to me that the people who are ridiculously successful at MIT
would probably have been ridiculously successful most anywhere else. Find some
smart friends, stop thinking so highly of yourself, and get back to
learning.[1]"The best programmer is a humble programmer."[2]

[0]-High point of the class: Stroustrup was guest lecturing in class a month
ago. I had seen on HN a few days before he had responded directly to one of
Linus' attacks on C++. I raised my hand and asked him how he dealt with guys
like Linus. He got all flustered and just went "Linus is a immature fool!" and
then went on preach for C++0x. [1] Read Godel Escher Bach. It will put you in
your intellectual place. [2] Wish I knew who said that first.

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hansy
Do something big and different...something that will get you noticed. Make an
impact on your campus, like starting a club. Whatever your interests/passions
are, put your drive and work ethic behind it and really have fun with it. If
you are a CS guy, work on cool open source projects.

Don't forget about grades. I think going to a less-than-stellar school means
grades are far more important.

Lastly, every single school is unique in its own right. Figure out how your
school is positively different than, say, Harvard, MIT, etc. For example, I
went to a huge public school, but I really wish I had gotten the smaller 1 on
1 interactions you sometimes see at community colleges. Differences like that.
Exploit these difference so that if the issue of where you went to school ever
comes up with an employer, you can soundly give them a solid reason.

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jiahuang
You seem particularly worried that you won't get hired since you're from a
lesser known school. Don't be. Especially in fields such as software, they
care a lot more about talent than name dropping. Do some cool projects and put
it up on github. Have an idea for an app? Flush it out and launch it. Don't
have an idea? Look at a successful app and try to port it to another platform
-- you'll probably learn a lot along the way.

As students of a relatively small school that doesn't do a lot of advanced
scientific research, my friends and I were able to get jobs/internships at
some of the companies you've listed, so all is not lost :)

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sinamdar
My advice is this:

1.Find the most accomplished professors in your department and take courses
offered by them. Even though your school may not have a big reputation, some
professors may have enough clout to recommend you when applying to Google/FB
etc.

2.Keep doing Deliberate Practice. Take the hardest courses. Work on your own
projects. Contribute to open source projects.

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namank
Then kill the GPA. Most grad schools (far as I know) and virtually every
corporation give GPA about 50% of the weight.

Then undergrad doesn't matter.

