
Nissan's ‘Self-Cleaning’ Car Prototype [video] - relampago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwoGsCAKsxU
======
wuschel
(Disclaimer: I had a fair share of sucker punches with self-cleaning
surfaces..)

Approaches towards self cleaning surfaces have been seen in the lab since a
long, long time: They range from photocatalytic concepts (e.g.
TiO2/SiO2/polymer hybrid coatings for house paint) to surfaces with a mixture
of -OH/-CH3/-F (hydro-/lipophilic and mostly repellent) end groups that can be
produces by plasma treatment, and many more.

There is a good reason that very little of these applications have ended up in
mass production: The stability and durability of the film surfaces. Once you
get a surface structure damage on, say, your "lotus effect functionalized"
bathtub, house wall, car body, dirt starts to accumulate on this spot. The
german car industry had quite a bunch of projects with car windows without
front wipers (minimum speed 20 km/h to be effective), there have been a lot of
projects for self cleaning house paints using the sun - but so far there is no
effective product on the market. But of course there are a lot of patents..

I have no idea if Nissan found a way to make a cost effective, self cleansing
film coating that can stand the test of gravel, acid, and time. If they
succeeded, then it is a true accomplishment. But for the reasons listed above,
I somehow doubt that.

~~~
iandanforth
What if this were an option at a carwash? I use full synthetic oil because it
allows me to increase time between changes. I would pay more for a car wash
that lasted longer as well. If the problem is a need to re-apply, can you get
a coating that could be sprayed across the entire car without a need to mask
out bits like in the video?

~~~
wuschel
You have a point. How often/long do you wash your car, and how much $ do you
spend on this? I have to admit, I do not wash my car very often. Pity they did
not report anything about the cost of deploying the "dirtophobic" car paint
film. If one could make it a quickly applicable, inexpensive "spray and go"
option that allows to regenerate a dirt repelling film - why not. But there
must be a reason why "Nissan says it has no plans to offer the paint as
standard equipment, but will consider making it an option".

I am also wondering why they neglected the windows in the video clip. Might be
a problem with transparency of the film, or a difference in the nature of the
film adhesion to regular paint and glass. It is a pity that they did not
provide any data on mechanical stability and film degradation. Without this
data, I still do believe that this is a PR thing. Alas, it is wired.com.

~~~
Qworg
They are using Ultra Ever Dry.

It is not transparent.

~~~
glenntzke
There's good reason to have shown this on a white car because of this fact. 1.
white give nice contrast for dirt but importantly 2. white nicely hides the
frosty appearance of Ultra Ever Dry.

Check out the ars technica article - the UED video at the top shows work boots
frosted over with the stuff. [http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/03/the-
internet-demanded...](http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/03/the-internet-
demanded-partially-scientific-testing-of-ultraeverdry-in-hd/)

------
josho
I see this as an interesting business lesson for startups, but even more
general.

First, what a great marketing angle, a self-cleaning car, how cool is that! I
imagine 6 o'clock news stations across the country showing clips from this
video tonight.

Second, what a great up-sell opportunity. Now every oil change service done by
Nissan can include a new $50 charge (or whatever the market will bear) for re-
applying the self-cleaning paint.

Third, could they even push an environmental angle? Ie. litres/gallons of
water saved by not going through a car wash?

So, with one new _feature_ Nissan has gained free marketing, and an
incremental revenue source for their dealers. Not bad for a mature market.

~~~
Qworg
Even better, they didn't actually develop anything.

Ultra Ever Dry
([http://dry.technology/index.html](http://dry.technology/index.html)) has
been around for a while now. It is pretty remarkable.

The only downside is that it needs to be reapplied (and it cannot be used on
windows). It wears off at a rate depending on how much abuse it takes -
anything rubbing on it will hasten its decline.

EDIT: To dvcc's point below, this sounds very negative.

It is actually positive - earned media, essentially for free. Amazing job by
Nissan marketers.

~~~
toomuchtodo
> The only downside is that it needs to be reapplied (and it cannot be used on
> windows).

Reapply ever 5000 miles when you rotate the tires, and use RainX on the
windows.

------
michaelbuckbee
If the coating is anything like Neverwet it's not the initial application and
demonstration where the issue lies, but in the long term use and breakdown
(aka will it still work after being in Arizona heat and Alaskan winters?)

------
leorocky
RIP car washes! Wow and that self cleaning paint action, I just had to see it.
At this point I just think a ban on wired.com is called for on HN. Whatever
nice discussions we've had from wired is probably not offset by the constant
shit from this domain. I know I've sung this tune before.

~~~
jessaustin
I'm tempted to agree, bu maybe your "tune" would be more persuasive if it
weren't coming from a throwaway account?

~~~
leorocky
It's not a throwaway account, per se. It's an anonymous account.

------
lukasm
OK I've seen a dozens of different products like this. First time 8 years ago.
Why are they not in production yet? Why can't I buy it in shop? Is it highly
toxic or just works for a year? #confused

~~~
kawsper
There has been some concerns about carbon nanotubes could have asbestos-like
properties [1] if not handled properly.

Maybe that could be part of the reason?

[1] [http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-
articles/0113/130115-chemistr...](http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-
articles/0113/130115-chemistry-resolves-toxic-concerns-about-carbon-nanotubes)

~~~
nitrogen
Wouldn't carbon be easier to decompose than a mineral fiber?

------
adriancooney
It's not technically "self-cleaning" because it doesn't really clean itself
but more dirt-repellant. Self-cleaning does look a lot better marketing wise
though.

------
awda
Blogspam for
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwoGsCAKsxU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwoGsCAKsxU)

~~~
dang
Yes. We changed the url from [1]. Wired is one of those sites that produces
some solid articles and a lot of spammy fluff. We're not ready to lightweight
it [2], but we're close.

1\. [http://www.wired.com/2014/04/self-washing-
car](http://www.wired.com/2014/04/self-washing-car)

2\.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7658520](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7658520)

------
pistle
That's great until it breaks down (and it does). You can't get a basic detail,
since the supporting products also won't work with it.

Once it does start breaking down, you have issues getting basic stuff like
soap bubbles to work as needed to help clean the spots that are broken down.

If it can't be layered, without adverse effects to the color of the paint,
trouble.

If it can't be removed for repainting, etc. trouble.

Probably usable for some cases, but not going to get traction in the broader
market until someone can fix long-term cost of ownership issues.

Have some car zen. Watch Ammo NYC videos on youtube
[https://www.youtube.com/user/AMMONYCdotcom](https://www.youtube.com/user/AMMONYCdotcom)

------
EGreg
Can we just use this on our cars?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPM8OR6W6WE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPM8OR6W6WE)

------
sgt
I like it a lot - but I don't think it'll ever make car washes completely
obsolete. There are quite a few places that can still get dirty, e.g. tires,
rims, wheel arches, lights, grilles, windshield wipers, mirrors, and ofcourse
not to forget the big elephant in the room; the interior.

If this really catches on and becomes commonplace in most cars, I think this
in the end will complement the car wash industry just fine.

~~~
frogpelt
The hydrophobic/oleophobic coating bay could be another option at the car
wash.

That's a great idea.

~~~
sgt
And as someone else pointed out - most likely it'll have a limited lifetime.
There you go, repeat customers.

------
sp332
Ars Technica experimented with the stuff last year. It looks like a lot of fun
:) [http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/03/the-internet-
demanded...](http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/03/the-internet-demanded-
partially-scientific-testing-of-ultraeverdry-in-hd/)

------
danmaz74
I remember a similar German technology from way back here on HN, and found it:
[http://en.dienanoexperten.de/produkte.htm](http://en.dienanoexperten.de/produkte.htm)

But in the end it looks like they didn't expand at all. I would be curious to
know what is the problem.

------
kristiandupont
I'm assuming this is made with nanotechnology similar to Neverwet. I haven't
looked properly into it but I remember reading that there is suspicion that
nanotubes might be dangerous like asbestos. Imagine cars with this coating
crashing, sending dust of that stuff into the air..

------
mcescalante
This is another link bait situation from Wired, which seems to be happening
often nowadays.

This is just some "stuff-resistant" paint that works better than the paint on
cars now. It would be nice if all cars had this, but I'm sure that's just a
matter of time / manufacturer.

------
Istof
The product used appears to be Ultra-Ever Dry and is sold and marketed by
Florida-based Ultratech International
[http://www.spillcontainment.com/everdry](http://www.spillcontainment.com/everdry)

------
dannytipple
Some guy put this on his 4x4 over a year ago
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRlQAhlwb2E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRlQAhlwb2E)

------
rabino
Looks like it's using something like
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEH6tDLKcVU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEH6tDLKcVU)

------
obsurveyor
Look at that headlight on the treated side of the car. The cloudiness these
types of applications add makes it look like the headlight of a decade old
car.

~~~
chalgo
But they masked the headlights in the treatment process. Which also raises the
issue, you'll still need to wash your headlights and number plate.

~~~
obsurveyor
I don't think they did for the vehicle they took the picture of at the top of
the Wired article. There's a clear difference between the clarity of the
headlights.

------
ermintrude
Cars...meh. One word: Dinner plates.

~~~
tyree732
While that would be nice from a cleaning perspective, from an eating
perspective that might make certain meals awkward to eat and prepare.

------
BryanB55
So pretty much just a hydrophobic coating, which is the same as properly
sealed and waxed paint.

------
dmak
I find it interesting that they're marketing this as a self-cleaning paint.

------
darksim905
So they just coated the car in Never Wet? Got it.

------
huhtenberg
In practice it would probably mean that while almost nothing sticks, whatever
does will be a total bitch to take off :)

Just like antibiotics and superbugs. Survival of the nastiest.

------
ericdenver
That's really cool.

