
Leak shows EU's plans for large scale surveillance of all communications - 1337biz
http://www.edri.org/cleanIT
======
runn1ng
More information is in this techdirt article, it's pretty freaky

[http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120921/03581820457/eu-
off...](http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120921/03581820457/eu-officials-
propose-internet-cops-patrol-no-anonymity-no-obscure-languages-because-
terrorism.shtml)

I love those bits

"The use of platforms in languages abuse specialists or abuse systems do not
master should be unacceptable and preferably technically impossible."

"Internet companies must allow only real, common names. These must be entered
when registering."

------
spindritf
> Governments should use the helpfulness of ISPs as a criterion for awarding
> public contracts

It's almost impressive how even the most innocuous public projects can be
turned against us by the governments. Every euro you pay in taxes can and will
be used against you, no courts necessary.

~~~
eckyptang
This is one of the reasons I pay someone to help me avoid paying as much as
possible. If I had a say what taxes were used for then, I might think
otherwise. Unfortunately it get used to fund oil wars, surveillance and
quangos whilst Healthcare, education and infrastructure crumbles. And don't
give me that democracy bollocks - it doesn't work when the majority of the
voting populous are semi-morons who might as well just tick the first box.

------
Atropos
This is ridiculous and misinformed Anti-EU propaganda. If you look at the
CleanIT website, you can see that this is just a project by the "Law
Enforcement or Counter terrorism departments" of some European Countries. The
project explicitly states that it has a "Non-legislative approach" and is seen
as a "Public-Private-Partnership".

The only connection to the EU is that it received an EU financing in 2011.
Clearly the content of the document is really troubling, but what would you
expect from a document exclusively edited by some governments anti-terror
departments? This reads more like a wishlist than anything having a remote
chance of political survival.

Anyway there will be enough time to start worrying and outrage if these ideas
actually appear in a legislative proposal by the EU commission. Even then it
would likely take another 3-4 years to become law. Keep in mind that the
current EU commission is only in place until the next EU elecions in 2014. It
is very unlikely that a huge legislative project would be initiated before
that.

~~~
christkv
That still does not fix the issue that the EU commission is a non democratic
institution that rules by unopposed fiat. Being a european I rather see the
whole commission gone asap.

~~~
Atropos
Hyperbole bordering on propaganda again. The 27 EU countries elect their
governments democratically. Then the council of these democratically elected
governments appoints the EU commission for the specific time frame of 5 years
and the appointment has to be confirmed by the democratically elected European
Parliament. The commission only has the legislative initiative, but the
proposals are voted on by the European Council and the Parliament, requiring
at least a qualified majority, in many policy areas even requiring
Unanimity...

------
mtgx
I get it now. So first they start monitoring everyone, illegally. Then they
pass new laws to make it legal. And then when more sites and people start
using encrypted communications, they start complaining about new technologies
making it "hard for them" to monitor everyone. So, kind of like it's already
happening in US.

In fact, I'm pretty sure this idea was suggested by US. US already has some
one-way deals with EU where they get some EU's data on EU citizens (but not
the other way around, of course), and now they probably just want more of it.
Why settle for only US data when you can have the world's data? On the other
hand, it's possible the EU commission wants this kind of power, too.

~~~
nacker
Although I'm in favor of paranoia generally, I don't think it was suggested by
the US.

All you need to know about "plans" for the EU was divulged by Vladimir
Bukovsky a few years ago.

<http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/865>

~~~
digitalengineer
Exactly. Here is a better Youtube link where Vladimir Bukovsky compares the EU
with USSR. I was _shocked_ to see all the comparisons!
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m41Tdl5mvdg>

~~~
personlurking
and Yuri Bezmenov here <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gnpCqsXE8g>

------
zxcdw
This is some horrible stuff, and there's very little one can do about it
really. Quite saddening.

And if only it was just that... There's a talk about different initiative,
_WhiteIT_ which tries to enforce internet censorship in Europe:

[http://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2011/28c3-4700-en-
what_i...](http://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2011/28c3-4700-en-
what_is_whiteit.html)

~~~
NameNickHN
> This is some horrible stuff, and there's very little > one can do about it
> really.

Not quite. It still has to become EU law and then the EU member states have to
accept it. There are still chances to axe this. See ACTA.

------
Teapot
Fucking control fanatics.

We must stop playing just defense against ACTA and such crap. We need an
offensive endless stream of Law suggestions for stronger protections of
freedoms.

~~~
jeltz
The only ways I see to stop this is by either leaving the EU or making the EU
parliament more powerful. The EU Commission is hellbent on controlling the
people.

------
gasull
It's time to start using Tor.

I don't mean only for browsing the web. I mean it's time to have services in
Tor:

\- We need a Youtube in Tor that won't censor a video because it's an
unauthorized remix of some other music videos.

\- We need a Twitter in Tor where users don't get subpoenaed.

\- We need a Facebook in Tor where I can use a pseudonym if I want to.

\- We need a Gmail in Tor where messages won't be so easily eavesdropped by
Governments.

\- We need services in Tor that won't need to fear patent trolls.

PG, please unblock Tor for HN.

~~~
mike-cardwell
I didn't realise that access to HN was blocked for Tor users, so I just
thought I'd try it out. I can access the site when using Tor. I can log in to
the site when using Tor. And if this comment submission works, then I guess I
can comment via Tor as well...

~~~
gasull
I tried long time ago and didn't work for me. I assumed it was still blocked.

------
personlurking
I'm pretty sure Marx in Das Kapital talked about having three trading blocs.
This isn't a new idea. Get everyone under one system and then, with any law on
the books, you can expand that law incrementally (the Fabian way, after Fabius
Maximus) in order to slowly wear down your opponent, via attrition.

~~~
dageshi
Ahh consider the Chinese method, pass so many laws that someone is always
guilty of something, selectively enforce those laws when and if some
individual does something to piss you off and they need to be put in their
place.

~~~
rockyleal
"Chinese method"? I'm sorry to break it like this to you, but you have just
described the West.

~~~
greenyoda
Exactly. This describes what's happening right here in the U.S.

See, for example these articles:

Revisiting the Explosive Growth of Federal Crimes

[http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2008/06/revisiting-...](http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2008/06/revisiting-
the-explosive-growth-of-federal-crimes)

The Expanding Federal Police Power

<http://www.cato.org/pubs/handbook/hb105-17.html>

And the U.S. has a much higher percentage of its population in prison than
China does:

[http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/world/americas/23iht-23pri...](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/world/americas/23iht-23prison.12253738.html)

------
jk4930
CleanIT's response to it: [http://www.cleanitproject.eu/edri-publishes-clean-
it-discuss...](http://www.cleanitproject.eu/edri-publishes-clean-it-
discussion-document/)

------
white_devil
Apparently, this falls outside of _tptacek_ 's "jurisdiction". He's nowhere to
be seen!

Luckily we've got Mr. Atropos taking care of things.

