
Seeing red: Why cars are killing more people - jseliger
http://cityobservatory.org/seeing-red/
======
reificator
This page does not contain an article for me. Simply a header, an ad, and some
blocked content.

I am not blocking scripts, and there are no errors in the console. The only
network requests that are failing are analytics requests that are being
blocked. The HTML source does not appear to contain an article that has failed
to load. None of the requests appear to be for article content, just a lot of
libraries, stylesheets, and images.

Interesting snippets I found while reading the source:

    
    
        <!-- real people should not fill this in and expect good things - do not remove this or risk form bot signups-->
    

I'm guessing they have a fake form honeypot to prevent bots from spamming
their real signup form?

    
    
        /* <![CDATA[ */
            var newsletter = {"messages":{"email_error":"Email address is not correct","name_error":"Name is required","surname_error":"Last name is required","privacy_error":"You must accept the privacy policy"},"profile_max":"20"};
        /* ]]> */
    

I can tell from this snippet I really don't want to see their build pipeline
if they have to escape such a simple statement such that it won't break XML or
JS.

~~~
benologist
Stuff like /* <![CDATA[ */ was common some years ago because of JS and XHTML
parsers colliding -

[https://magento.stackexchange.com/questions/164569/put-
cdata...](https://magento.stackexchange.com/questions/164569/put-cdata-it-is-
a-good-practice-or-not-necessarily-magento-1-9)

~~~
reificator
You know what, my bad. I don't think I ever tried to use inline JS in that
era.

Thanks for that tidbit of info. I was picturing some horrific build script
with the canonical JS stored in XML.

------
post_break
Drive a stick shift in america and you'll very quickly see how many people are
zombies behind the wheel. Red light means head down phone time. People run red
lights way more often because they either didn't make the green because
someone was on their phone at the start of the line and people are too scared
to use their horn and risk road rage, or they themselves were head down. The
police do not enforce the laws on the books about distracted driving or
driving while texting, hell the police don't respond to much any more in our
city unless you say active shooter. It's just so frustrating to try to drive
any more in the past 10 years because of phones.

~~~
bob1029
I have an easy solution to this problem. Make it a felony to use your phone
(e.g. looking down at it) while in the driver seat of a vehicle in motion.
This is the only way you will get people to pay any attention. You only have
to enforce something like this occasionally. The fear of harsh consequences
will take care of the rest. Drunk driving seems to be far less of an epidemic
than distracted phone driving these days...

~~~
NullPrefix
>Make it a felony to use your phone (e.g. looking down at it) while in the
driver seat of a vehicle in motion.

Dunno about the enforcement but in France it is illegal for drivers to use
their phones even when the car is stopped.

~~~
pkaye
What is the penalty?

~~~
NullPrefix
IIRC license suspension.

------
romaaeterna
The article:
[http://cityobservatory.org/2019/09/](http://cityobservatory.org/2019/09/)

Text:

We’re killing more people because more people are ignoring traffic signals

We’ve charted the ominous increase in road deaths in the past several years,
and now there’s a new bit of evidence of just how bad the problem has become.
In 2017, according to an American Automobile Association analysis of NHTSA
data reported by the Los Angeles Times, we hit a new high for the number of
people killed by cars running red lights.

> In 2017, the latest figures available, 939 people were killed by vehicles
> blowing through red lights, according to a AAA study of government crash
> data. . . . AAA isn’t sure why the numbers are on the rise or why they have
> increased at a far higher rate than overall U.S. roadway deaths. Since 2012
> the number of highway fatalities rose 10%, far short of the 28% increase in
> red-light running deaths.

There are likely many causes for the increase in fatalities. Some of it sure
has to do with the increase in driving, prompted by cheaper fuel.

Red-light running is also likely another indication of the growing problem of
distracted driving. Drivers who are texting or distracted by in-cabin
technology are more likely to miss a red light.

It also has to be mentioned that our efforts to use “smart” technology to
improve compliance with traffic laws is woeful. Traffic engineers invest
untold millions in efforts to automate traffic lights to provide motorists
with a green wave, but spend little effort to promote greater compliance with
red lights and speed limits. For example, despite its official policy of
trying to achieve Vision Zero, for example, the City of Portland has just
eight fixed speed cameras. Several states, including Texas have banned
automated red-light cameras. Automated traffic enforcement is a technology
that’s been shown to reduce speeding and red-light running and save lives.

We’re all enamored of the prospects of technology to make life better, but in
one of the few instances in which we have a proven technology that’s been
shown to save lives, we’ve limited or actually prohibited its deployment, with
predictable results, in the form of an increasing death toll.

~~~
ztjio
You're overthinking this. People run red lights because they are impatient and
don't get punished for it. There must be a 1 in 1000 chance of actually being
caught. Maybe even better odds actually. During commute traffic in my area,
without fail people will run the red lights, usually 2-3 cars minimum every
single cycle.

Traffic code is unenforceable by current methods. That's the place to start. I
for one am all in favor of the idea of red light cameras however, they were
shown to actually cause more accidents. Go figure.

~~~
nickles
> red light cameras however, they were shown to actually cause more accidents

Adding to this, the issue was not directly with the cameras themselves but
with the length of the yellow light. In order to increase revenue from traffic
cameras, municipalities were reducing the amount of time the traffic light was
yellow. However, reducing the length of the yellow light also leads to an
increase in car crashes.

[0] [https://www.motorists.org/blog/6-cities-that-were-caught-
sho...](https://www.motorists.org/blog/6-cities-that-were-caught-shortening-
yellow-light-times-for-profit/)

[1] [https://phys.org/news/2012-09-length-yellow-caution-
traffic-...](https://phys.org/news/2012-09-length-yellow-caution-traffic-
accidents.html)

------
cmcaine
Cars aren't killing people. Car drivers are killing people, usually because
they are careless.

Compare the language used when pedestrians are killed by cyclists.

~~~
Godel_unicode
> ...pedestrians are killed by cyclists

Is this very common? I've been hit by cyclists before (apparently red lights
are a suggestion if you're pedaling?) but killing seems like it would be
difficult.

~~~
baroffoos
Its extraordinarily rare to the point of not even worth counting. But when it
happens once somewhere in the world it gets reposted on every single clickbait
news website and spread all over social media.

------
autoexec
the source gives a description: "We're killing more people because more people
are ignoring traffic signals We've charted the ominous increase in road deaths
in the past several years, and now there's a new bit o...

and links to this picture of a red light. [http://cityobservatory.org/wp-
content/uploads/2019/09/red_li...](http://cityobservatory.org/wp-
content/uploads/2019/09/red_light-1024x768.jpg)

That's all the content I can get out of their source code.

------
notus
The site loads but the article content does not

------
cbanek
I work on a college campus, and now the students are back. They are the worst
pedestrians to deal with. Many of them are distracted on their phones, and
many will just start walking into the road in any random place, never even
looking if a car is coming. I would say the intersections are very pedestrian
friendly - stop signs where they can cross any time (and I don't fault them
for that), but please stop walking out into the middle of the street, or using
the street as a sidewalk.

------
fnord77
I noticed a ton more red light cameras recently installed in my city.

Hope that keeps drivers on their toes.

~~~
casefields
Yes. So much so, rear end collisions will skyrocket:

[https://time.com/3643077/red-light-cams-rear-end-
collisions-...](https://time.com/3643077/red-light-cams-rear-end-collisions-
chicago/)

[https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15135851/rear-end-
cra...](https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15135851/rear-end-crashes-go-
up-after-red-light-cameras-go-in/)

[https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/05049/](https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/05049/)

~~~
fnord77
I think for this city, more rear end accidents in exchange for fewer
pedestrian deaths is acceptable

------
klyrs
Edit, was a link to different content with the same title

~~~
autoexec
> Pedestrians continue to die in disturbing numbers. Things like speed bumps,
> red light cameras, and more signage are virtually useless.

Haven't red light cameras been linked to increases in accidents? I'm pretty
sure I've read it was in part due to decreasing the length of yellow lights to
try to increase revenue.

~~~
notus
Yeah most cities are removing red light cameras, it's been universally
accepted as a failed experiment.

I think distracted driving is the problem IMO. I cannot go anywhere without
seeing people driving while looking at their phones and cops right next to
them not doing anything about it.

~~~
megaremote
> Yeah most cities are removing red light cameras, it's been universally
> accepted as a failed experiment.

This is bullshit. People just don't like them. People don't like having to
stop at yellow lights, including the people setting the laws.

~~~
jakeogh
They went down in flames here in Tucson.

[https://tucson.com/news/local/no-more-tickets-from-
tucson-s-...](https://tucson.com/news/local/no-more-tickets-from-tucson-s-red-
light-cameras-radar/article_c4b350cf-2e9a-59ef-b644-ce83fca30896.html)

------
kiliantics
But instead of opening the discourse on how to solve the car epidemic,
mainstream news prefers to focus on other road problems, like how "deadly"
cyclists are:

[https://nypost.com/2019/08/31/nyc-bicyclists-are-killing-
ped...](https://nypost.com/2019/08/31/nyc-bicyclists-are-killing-pedestrians-
and-the-city-wont-stop-it/)

~~~
bt848
Also “distracted walking “

~~~
baroffoos
The accepted punishment for stepping outside without being on full alert
survival mode is instant death.

