
Strong Legs Associated with Healthy Brains in Twin Study - mhb
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/11/18/brawn-and-brains/
======
padobson
I go to therapy to manage my depression. I don't have a severe case, but it's
bad enough that it affects my productivity at times. Once a year or so I'll
have a bout where I am almost completely unable to function.

The tools I use to manage depression are (wait for it) diet, exercise and
prayer (or meditation, if you want to keep it secular).

Exercise is particularly useful. Depression affects the mind, so it's
difficult to be self-aware about it. But I've found that when I start to have
those thoughts of hopelessness, going out and running 1-3 miles at a pace that
pushes my physical limits (I use a Nike Sportwatch for measurements)
eradicates my depression.

On a semi-daily basis, 30 minutes of prayer, 30 minutes exercise and at least
one meal with ~90g of raw spinach seems to do the trick for me.

~~~
andor
Spinach, that's interesting. Apparently, tryptophan + vitamin B6 + vitamin C
converts to serotonin.

[https://thomasmcgregor.wordpress.com/2013/06/07/cure-
depress...](https://thomasmcgregor.wordpress.com/2013/06/07/cure-depression-
with-spinach/)

~~~
padobson
Thanks for the link. I started on Spinach because my doctor suggested "leafy
green vegetables". I tried kale first, but I prefer the taste of spinach.

I most often eat it first thing in the morning as a shake: 90g spinach + 1 cup
almond milk + half a frozen banana.

According to the article, I may want to add some strawberries or oranges for
more vitamin C.

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mrfusion
Fresh spinach?

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padobson
Depends. I buy groceries every two weeks and get two bags of fresh spinach. I
freeze one and leave the other in the vegetable crisper. So the first week
it's all fresh, the second week it's frozen.

~~~
keithpeter
If you want more calories, try skirlie (oatmeal and spinach)

[http://www.mostlyeating.com/skirlie-fast-savoury-
oats](http://www.mostlyeating.com/skirlie-fast-savoury-oats)

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omginternets
This is actually a fairly old idea and hinges on the role of leg muscles in
general circulation and brain irrigation. I don't have the other papers on
hand, but I recall there being studies relating sitting time with cognitive
performance, the idea being that there's a bit of hypoxia associated with
immobility.

Edit: An anecdote which I think will resonate with many. Very often I start
getting drowsy in front of my computer and decide to get a cup of coffee. By
the time I make it to the coffee machine, I'm no longer drowsy ...

~~~
shas3
Do stronger muscles result in increased blood flow?

~~~
Namrog84
I could be wrong but I thought I read. Increased exercise increases capillary
size and in some cases can form new ones? In which relates the more you
exercise. Stonger your muscles. The more blood flow there is.

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esseti
Just started to read the book "Brain Rules: 12 Principles for Surviving and
Thriving at Work, Home, and School".

It basically starts with this "For starters, we are not used to sitting at a
desk for eight hours a day. From an evolutionary perspective, our brains
developed while working out, walking as many as 12 miles a day. The brain
still craves that experience, especially in sedentary populations like our
own. That’s why exercise boosts brain power (Brain Rule #1) in such
populations. Exercisers outperform couch potatoes in long-term memory,
reasoning, attention, and problem-solving tasks. I am convinced that
integrating exercise into our eight hours at work or school would only be
normal."

~~~
tomp
> Exercisers outperform couch potatoes in long-term memory, reasoning,
> attention, and problem-solving tasks

I'm pretty sure the cause/effect is reversed here. It's more likely that
people who are smart and have better focus/are less impulsive are more likely
to take care of their health and exercise.

~~~
thewarrior
So how come Stephen Hawking isn't a mental slouch by now ?

~~~
theseatoms
A single data point is hardly an argument.

~~~
daveguy
I think he was pointing out that correlation does not equal causation. Strong
legs => healthy brain is just silly. Could it be better eating habits => both?
Just because they're twins doesn't mean one doesn't like their vegetables.
Also, this data point is just as valid as the "Bill Gates jumped out of trash
cans!" point.

~~~
pc86
As was stated elsewhere the most likely cause is that smart people are much
more likely to take their health seriously, and part of that is some form of
vigorous exercise.

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cronjobber
Anecdotal confirmation: Bill Gates, who is widely believed to have a very
healthy brain, in more youthful years used to perform silly jumping feats,
like jumping out of garbage cans.

~~~
jinst8gmi
Anecdotal counter-example: my dog likes jumping into garbage cans but isn't
very smart.

~~~
bkmartin
Might apply to humans only... no canine trials have been studied yet. /s

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codebolt
Just like I always say, all a man needs to succeed in life is maths and
squats.

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DevX101
Strong legs are also associated with people who run a lot, which has been
already shown to be associated with healthy brains.

It's possible this study is a proxy for the common health advice of 'just do
more cardio'

~~~
hyperchase
Or weightlifting, squatting and deadlifting heavy on a regular basis will give
you substantially stronger legs than any runner.

~~~
uououuttt
Any runner? Sprinting is as good as anything for developing explosive leg
strength. Of course, the best sprinters work lifting into their training as
well.

~~~
jperras
> Sprinting is as good as anything for developing explosive leg strength.

Considering that "leg strength" is conventionally measured via seated leg
press for a maximal, single repetition, I would be extremely surprised if an
Olympic sprinter could achieve the same sort of leg strength that an Olympic
weightlifter (of similar weight) could attain.

~~~
uououuttt
If you define leg strength specifically as "seated leg press for a maximal,
single repetition" then sure, the Olympic weight lifter will win.

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xendo
TL;DR

"muscle fitness (measured by leg power)" is correlated with cognitive ageing.

~~~
mapleoin
inversely correlated I hope?

~~~
skj
The term "inversely correlated" is a new one for me, since correlation is two-
way, and, as they say, not necessarily causal.

~~~
zeroxfe
"Inversely correlated" roughly means "correlated in opposite directions",
e.g., when one variable goes up, the other goes down, i.e., the correlation
factor is negative. It does not imply causation.

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datashovel
I'd be interested to know more precisely whether the subjects were doing more
aerobic or anaerobic exercises.

My hunch, given my distant past life as an athlete, is that the correlation is
with aerobic exercise and not anaerobic.

~~~
SebKba
You can build aerobic power (at least to some extent) using anaerobic exercise
like sprints / intervals. I would assume a combination of aerobic & anaerobic
exercise is probably the healthiest because that way all energy pathways and
muscle fibres get activated.

I always think it's crazy to expect humans to function properly without
exercise. We see the problems in all other animals when they become sedentary
below the level that they would historically be expected to do. Yet somehow
some people seem to think we are an exception to this rule.

~~~
Chris2048
"Healthiest" is pretty vague in this context, as we're tracking a particular
result - mental ability, and possibly neurogenesis.

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staunch
Walking helps me think because my thighs pump my brain full of smart juice?

~~~
barry-cotter
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain-
derived_neurotrophic_fac...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain-
derived_neurotrophic_factor)

Certain types of physical exercise have been shown to markedly (threefold)
increase BDNF synthesis in the human brain, a phenomenon which is partly
responsible for exercise-induced neurogenesis and improvements in cognitive
function

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurobiological_effects_of_phy...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurobiological_effects_of_physical_exercise)

People who regularly participate in aerobic exercise have greater scores on
neuropsychological function and performance tests. Examples of aerobic
exercise that produce these changes are running, jogging, brisk walking,
swimming, and cycling. Exercise intensity and duration are positively
correlated with the release of neurotrophic factors and the magnitude of
nearly all forms of exercise-induced behavioral and neural plasticity;
consequently, more pronounced improvements in measures of neuropsychological
performance are observed in endurance athletes as compared with recreational
athletes or sedentary individuals. Aerobic exercise is also a potent long-term
antidepressant and a short-term euphoriant; consequently, consistent exercise
has also been shown to produce general improvements in mood and self-esteem in
all individuals.

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shabbaa
Interesting, however i'd lean towards muscle mass in general having this
effect rather than thighs in particular.

Although being at the lower end of the body might be important in maintaining
goid circulation.

~~~
raverbashing
Here's the thing, you don't/can't "isolate" development of a muscle,
especially a big one

Working out has systemic (anabolic) effects

~~~
makeset
> you don't/can't "isolate" development of a muscle

This is not true at all. You may be confusing it with the assertion that you
can't isolate individual heads of a particular muscle.

Yes, training has some systemic effect through hormonal activity, but muscle
anabolism is very highly specific to local stimulus. Otherwise we'd all be
just doing curls and watch our legs grow.

For a comically extreme example of localized functional muscle hypertrophy,
search for the armwrestler Matthias "Hellboy" Schlitte :)

~~~
raverbashing
Yes, if you focus your training on one specific muscle, especially if it's a
small one (arms basically) you will cause said muscle to be hypertrophied

But you can bet Matthias Schilitte doesn't stand all day training only said
muscles (also he has a genetic problem)

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SebKba
There is probably a correlation between overall health -> leg strength &
overall health => brain health / power. Not as revolutionary as I would like
it to be.

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Chris2048
What I'd like to know is how this boils down wrt work.

If an increase in mental ability represent a greater work-done-per hour; But
the cost is time spent exercising -> less time working (maybe somewhat
compensated for other positive non-work benefits), Then what would be the
perfect amount of exercise to boost productivity?

i.e. would an hour spent exercising pay for itself in productivity boost?

~~~
vox_mollis
You can get in a decent intense squat session in only 15 minutes.

The really big time sinks associated with lifting include: \- commute to/from
gym \- changing clothes \- another shower

If you don't live in cramped quarters such as SF/NYC, I recommend a small
home/garage gym to address these.

~~~
kyllo
Also, finding new pants that fit. That's been a big time sink for me.

~~~
khnd
preach!

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danielrm26
The whole causation / correlation thing is a big part of this, I think. Many
will likely read this and think that there's brain power in your legs, when in
fact it's most likely saying that leg health -> physical activity in general
-> brain health.

I think the writing about the study should be more clear about this, as I'm
sure the original work is.

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kaitai
Full article at
[https://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/441029](https://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/441029)

Leg strength was tested by "Leg Extensor Power Rig," a custom-built instrument
in one of these medical school labs (Nottingham Med School). It's important to
remember that for all of these strength tests on average citizens you want an
exercise that doesn't require coaching or good form, so no squats, sadly....

~~~
DrScump
That puts disproportional emphasis on quadriceps strength. I had hoped for a
broader metric.

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hellofunk
I wonder if this would be yet another advantage of using stand-up desks, which
are now quite well-known to be stellar for cardiovascular health, but if they
also improve leg muscles, could be a boost to one's thinking power? After a
day of standing up at a desk, my legs are super tired, so obviously there is
serious muscle development going on there.

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ALee
Oliver Sacks once held the weightlifting record in California:
[http://www.mensjournal.com/health-
fitness/collection/8-thing...](http://www.mensjournal.com/health-
fitness/collection/8-things-we-learn-from-oliver-s-sacks-memoir-on-the-
move-20150501)

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sevensor
This is an appealing result. I like exercise and I want to think it's doing
good things for my brain, but as with all studies on the mind-body link, it's
going to take a great deal more evidence to make it convincing. It's
especially premature to conclude anything about exercising the legs in
particular.

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cheriot
The study controls for genetics and upbringing. So somewhere among food,
fitness, and the entire rest of the world is a contributor to brain health.
How helpful is that?

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davidw
I know getting out for a bike ride certainly activates my brain as long as I'm
not going full-out.

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askafriend
You heard that HN? We all need to be doing heavy squats in the gym.

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pvaldes
Maybe but not always, kangaroos o frogs do not seem to be much smarter than
deer or salamanders...

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plg
remember: "associated with" does NOT mean "causes"

having a Mercedes in the driveway might be associated with higher grades in
high school ... but you're not going to magically raise your kid's grade by
parking a mercedes in the driveway

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reustle
Well, I guess it depends on how much money you donate to the university.

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hsnewman
Yeah, just ask Stephen Hawkings

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Retra
That's really not how statistics work.

