
Why mathematicians make great comedy writers - prateekj
http://www.chortle.co.uk/features/2013/09/29/18747/why_mathematicians_make_great_comedy_writers
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tieTYT
I performed stand up comedy for over a year and I can relate to this (but I've
got a computer science background). I was a one-liner instead of a story
teller (even though I wished I was a story teller). Here's how my background
in computer science helped:

* Getting a joke to work best often requires A/B testing

* I tried to choose my best jokes objectively. I'd watch my videos and keep track of the jokes that got the laughs consistently. I then wrote a program to sort jokes by the best ratio.

* There are lots of rules (though they are fuzzy). This kind of reminds me of programming language syntax. Like you should attempt to make the punchline the last part of the sentence. Start with your funniest joke, end with your second funniest (this rule might be reversed, I can't remember).

* Try to be as concise as possible. Usually if you can cut out words your joke will be more effective. This reminds me of removing DRY violations in code.

* Some jokes are _really_ technical. They'd consistently get a laugh if every word was said in the exact tone and order they're supposed to, but if anything about the joke changed, it wouldn't "compile".

* Like programming, it'll probably take 10 years to get good at it (see [http://norvig.com/21-days.html](http://norvig.com/21-days.html) )

* Sometimes you'd think of a tag for an already existing joke. A tag is a joke that only makes sense in the context of the immediately preceding joke. This is like adding a feature to a legacy code base. It often requires refactoring and maintenance.

I like the way Marc Maron put it: One liners are the Math majors of comedy.
Story tellers are the English majors.

~~~
prateekj
"Getting a joke to work best often requires A/B testing" \- So true! We all do
that in real life without realizing it.

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ColinWright
I remember an interview with Tom Lehrer in which he said that writing lyrics
is like solving a puzzle - I can see the similarity.

~~~
prateekj
Exactly! Writing something that is both meaningful and interesting is like
solving a puzzle.

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kangaroo5383
Clever humor, a product of wit, mental sharpness which usually comes with the
ability to make correlations quickly and creatively.

Mathematicians are trained to understand systems and manipulate it with the
confines of certain rules - which is not unlike taking social system, beliefs,
etc, and applying logic creatively and insightfully to create witty humor!

~~~
prateekj
"Clever humor, a product of wit, mental sharpness which usually comes with the
ability to make correlations quickly and creatively." \- That's a good way to
put it. Couldn't agree more!

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sanjiallblue
I don't think the current generation of Simpsons writers would be the best
group of writers to put this comparison to, but rather to the writers of shows
like Futurama (which as I'm sure many devotees will know, consisted of a staff
of mathematicians that actually developed proofs for plot continuity and one-
offs).

Though, I don't think mathematicians really is the ideal here (hell, I'd even
go one further and put magicians ahead of mathematicians). I prefer Conan
O'Brien's observation that comedy is most similar to music and how musicians
often make good comedians (and why stand-up comedy is inundated with musical
comedians
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_musical_comedians](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_musical_comedians)).
Because comedy is about character, point of view, timing and rhythm more than
it is about formula.

There are plenty of comedians out in the world that make a living having read
their share of formulaic stand-up books, tell their lazy formulaic jokes, get
their easy laughs, collect a paycheck and burn out into obscurity or languish
in D-List infamy. Or more relevantly, write mediocre episodes of an animated
sitcom that stopped being funny 12 seasons ago aimed at a fan-base that
watches out of habit.

Mathematics can provide the latter, but the former takes an approach that goes
beyond the mathematical. That isn't to say that great mathematics can't
produce great material, but like the mathematics of the Eulers, the
Pythagorians, the Euclids, The Turings, and so many others, it takes
subverting the problem at a slightly different angle.

~~~
tieTYT
> comedy is most similar to music ... why stand-up comedy is inundated with
> musical comedians
> [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_musical_comedians](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_musical_comedians)

No no no, you've got it all wrong. Comedy is most similar to acting! Look, I
found a bigger list than you:
[http://www.listal.com/actors/comedian/all](http://www.listal.com/actors/comedian/all)

Re: musicians. Perhaps that's just because this skill can be _directly_ used
on stage. Your entire set can be musical. I can't bring a laptop on stage and
program as an entire set. Rather, I've never seen anyone do that. Also,
musicians probably already have stage experience.

> Mathematics can provide the latter, but the former takes an approach that
> goes beyond the mathematical. That isn't to say that great mathematics can't
> produce great material, but like the mathematics of the Eulers, the
> Pythagorians, the Euclids, The Turings, and so many others, it takes
> subverting the problem at a slightly different angle.

What are you basing this off of? If you look at the top tier stand up
comedians, they all have a variety of backgrounds.

~~~
nagrom
> Rather, I've never seen anyone do that. Also, musicians probably already
> have stage experience.

I've seen this guy do it for music:
[http://www.computersings.com/](http://www.computersings.com/)

The live experience is actually that he turns up, puts his laptop down and
walks away...

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weeksie
Yeah, I find plot construction in fiction writing to be very similar to doing
software development. There's a general high level outline that you start
with, then as you follow the story the complexity increases as you have to tie
in disparate story lines.

~~~
prateekj
The same logic can be applied to a variety of other fields as well. Many
formulations within mathematics, signal processing, machine learning, AI, etc
follow this. Higher level problems in real life usually have to deal with
unknown terrains and the techniques need to adapt to that.

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jamesbritt
Interesting book: [http://www.amazon.com/Mathematics-Humor-Study-Logic-
ebook/dp...](http://www.amazon.com/Mathematics-Humor-Study-Logic-
ebook/dp/B0042JU7F8/)

Mathematics and Humor: A Study of the Logic of Humor by Paulos, John Allen

~~~
richardkiss
Great book. Tiny audience.

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jl6
I'd probably put it down to mathematics and comedy writing both being high-IQ
activities.

~~~
richardkiss
I wish that were true.

I've performed stand-up comedy for nine years. I have an MA in mathematics
from UCLA. And have been programming since I was a kid. My humor is definitely
more on the clever side ([http://richardkiss.com/](http://richardkiss.com/)).

Unfortunately, stand-up comedy is mostly dominated these by people trying to
show how cool and selfish they are. All too often the punch line is a variant
of "I'm an edgy and anti-social loser", aka the "I'm a piece of shit" school
of comedy (a phrase I coined a few years back).

This is often coupled with a careless (carefree?) towards knowledge and fact,
and discussion of mundane or trashy details about the comic's life that
requires an audacious quantity of (undeserved) confidence to pull off, lest
the audience realize they're being hoodwinked into listening to narcissistic
drivel.

When most comics are not clever, the audience who show up are the kind of
audiences who are not interested in clever humor. Clever people go to a comedy
show and realize it's not aimed at them. This makes it even more difficult to
try to do clever humor that requires the audience to think. Unless you're
famous (and bring your own audience), live performances tend to be mass-
market/lowest-common-denominator.

I find this very frustrating. I wish I could figure out a way to create a
business model for comics whose style is not the dominant mode.

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gbog
There is a notable book called Laughter by French philosopher Bergson. Its
argument is that comical effects are reducible to something mechanical
(mathematical) (mis)applied on some living thing.

This could be a better explanation than what I read here and in the article.

~~~
jseliger
If you're interested in the subject, see _Inside Jokes: Using Humor to
Reverse-Engineer the Mind_ by Hurley, Dennett, and someone else. They critique
Bergson (and many others) and conclude something interesting but which I can't
remember because I'm traveling and don't have the book handy.

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pcurve
PhD turned to comedy.
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FTY3LyJgog](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FTY3LyJgog)

