
Unraveling the linothorax mystery (2013) - _Microft
https://jhupress.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/unraveling-the-linothorax-mystery-or-how-linen-armor-came-to-dominate-our-lives/
======
klyrs
This is cool and all, love ancient armor, curious about the chemical
similarity to cour bouilli (which actually seems to suck in comparison), I'm
amused that SCA heavies cheap out with armor made of carpeting which sounds
more accurate than ever, but

> While all of this mayhem (both scientifically controlled and free-form)
> convinced us that our linothorax was ancient-battlefield-ready, we still
> felt compelled to try a real-life scenario, so Scott donned the armor and
> Greg shot him.

Fuck! Don't shoot your fucking grad students! Buy a dummy, dress the dummy in
the armor, and shoot the dummy. Dummies are _way_ cheaper than grad students.
_Asshole_. I don't care if it was his idea as a grown adult, you loosed the
arrow, you're responsible if anything goes wrong.

~~~
DoofusOfDeath
> Dummies are way cheaper than grad students.

It's painful to read a statement like that, knowing that HN is largely
intolerant of jokes. Holding them back is very painful.

~~~
tomcam
> HN is largely intolerant of jokes.

That has also been difficult for me. This cohort is sublimely brilliant in
many ways and I treasure that, but it almost seems to be at the price of a
sense of humor.

Another thing I've found is that simply asking questions often gets treated as
an act of aggression. I have tried lots of ways of being more diplomatic and
have failed completely. I will accept this as a shortcoming of my own, and I
truly have attempted to be nicer somehow. My new solution is to ask them and
just take the downvotes on the hopes that I also get a thoughtful answer.
Doesn't work very well.

~~~
praptak
I think HN tolerance for jokes is exactly where it needs to be. Some good and
non-obvious jokes make it through. Anything more would degrade into the stream
of low effort humor which makes many other forums painful to read.

~~~
mumblemumble
For those who weren't there and don't bear the scars, some keywords to Google:

    
    
      first post
      grits
      Natalie Portman
      in Soviet Russia...
      CowboyNeal

------
mauvehaus
"We also found out that linen stiffened with rabbit glue strikes dogs as in
irresistibly tasty rabbit-flavored chew toy, and that our Labrador retriever
should not be left alone with our research project."

Animal protein glues enjoy a lot of interesting uses to this day. One of the
weirder ones is glue-chipped glass[0]. You roughen the surface of glass,
spread hide glue with a high gram strength on it, and as the glue dries, it
contracts, chipping out the glass leaving a neat texture. One has to be quite
careful disposing of the glue/glass waste. Dogs will apparently eat that, to
their considerable detriment.

Fish glue is also still available from luthier suppliers; it has a higher tack
than hide glue.

My favorite glue for general woodworking is Old Brown Glue[1], which is a hide
glue that's been modified to remain liquid at room temperature (it's still
best applied warm though). It has a longer open time than hot hide glue (which
is a gelatin at room temperature), while retaining all of the benefits of hide
glues generally: reversability and low creep. For a neat demonstration of the
reversability, I highly recommend his column veneering video [2].

I did a project with a large bent lamination, and I was looking into the
modern adhesives people typically use. Unibond and epoxy both have pretty
substantial health concerns. You don't typically use yellow glue (Titebond,
etc) because they do have a lot of creep, which can lead to your lamination
changing shape over time. I ended up using Old Brown Glue; it had enough open
time to get the lamination in clamps. I'm happy to report that I'm still alive
and all four legs of my dining room table still sit flat on the ground[3].

[0] [https://letterheadsignsupply.com/how-to-glue-chip-glass-
inst...](https://letterheadsignsupply.com/how-to-glue-chip-glass-instructions)
N.B.: You shouldn't sandblast with sand because of the risk of silicosis.

[1] [https://www.oldbrownglue.com](https://www.oldbrownglue.com)

[2]
[https://www.oldbrownglue.com/index.php/articles/11-articles/...](https://www.oldbrownglue.com/index.php/articles/11-articles/10-master-
class-low-tech-method-for-veneer-columns)

[3]
[https://www.longwalkwoodworking.com/gatelegtable/](https://www.longwalkwoodworking.com/gatelegtable/)

~~~
exDM69
Hello, fellow hide glue geek.

If you're not already familiar with it, here's a gem of a document called
"Hide Glue in the Modern Workshop" [0].

I really like Old Brown Glue too, but shipping it from America is
prohibitively expensive for me so I started cooking my own. My usual recipe is
0.2 parts urea, 1 part hide glue flakes, 1.5 parts water (by weight), heated
to 60-70 degrees celsius, chilled rapidly, then heated again and chilled again
(not sure why or if two heat and cooling cycles are necessary, but it works so
I'm not trying to fix it). The result is indistinguishable from OBG.

I have also tried the "123" recipe of 1 part table salt, 2 parts glue flakes,
3 parts water (by volume) but it inhibits the gelling too much and the drying
times are too long for my taste. However, it works better than the urea recipe
in cooler temperatures.

I'll send an email to the address you have in your HN profile. Reply if you
want to geek out about natural adhesives and woodworking in general.

[0]
[https://emgw.org/resources/Documents/Meeting%20Presentations...](https://emgw.org/resources/Documents/Meeting%20Presentations/2016%2005%20Hide%20Glue%20in%20the%20Modern%20Workshop/Hide%20Glue%20in%20the%20Modern%20Workshop.pdf)

------
kleton
I wonder if the historic version of this would have used boiled linseed oil as
the resin rather than collagen glue.

~~~
exDM69
I work with collagen glues and boiled linseed oil all the time, and they work
great together. I have made wafer thin all-natural composite materials using
wood fibers (thin plane shavings) as the substrate, hide glue to hold it
together and thoroughly impregnated with boiled linseed oil with a beeswax top
coat. The result is a rather strong material that's lightweight and thin
enough to let light through.

It is plausible that they would have used boiled linseed oil instead of or in
combination with hide glue or other materials commonly used in that era
(bitumen, beeswax, etc).

~~~
mauvehaus
Hi, I'm also a woodworker, and I'd love to see pictures of the material you're
describing!

~~~
exDM69
I'm sorry, can't find a picture right now.

I call it "basket weave veneer", made by taking thin plane shavings, boiling
them in a kettle and straightening them under weight and finally weaving them
like a basket and applying some glue.

Using (liquid) hide glue is essential in this job. With a PVA glue, you'd end
up with a blob of plastic. Unlike PVAs, hide glue doesn't interfere with the
finish (BLO).

I did a few prototype sheets with the intent of making a lamp or lantern but
never completed the project.

------
opwieurposiu
Flax Fiber and flax oil (linseed oil) has been used in place of fiberglass to
make boats. Kind of cool that the same plant makes both the fiber and the
resin.

[http://compositesmanufacturingmagazine.com/2018/09/biocompos...](http://compositesmanufacturingmagazine.com/2018/09/biocomposites-
encourage-innovative-applications/)

------
swebs
Huh, the process sounds like an early form of the same process used to make
carbon fiber.

------
cassepipe
So now I wonder, why did the medevial era (at least knights) seemed to favor
metal armors? I doubt it was less labour intensive, metal was harder to get
for sure and it was probably way heavier. Was the knowledge forgotten? It
seems unlikely but it might be so. Was the psychological effect of metal armor
better wether at creating fear in the enemy or at creating a feeling of being
safe? Would love to know more about this.

