
Ask HN: Just got an innocent man out of prison. What now? - ClintEhrlich
Hi, I&#x27;m Clint Ehrlich, a hacker&#x2F;law student who helped get an innocent man released from prison. I&#x27;m here on HN asking for advice about how to help my new friend get back on his feet.<p>A year ago, I saw a Dateline NBC episode about an Iraq-war vet, Sgt. Ray Jennings, who allegedly killed an 18-year-old girl in a parking lot. The evidence didn&#x27;t persuade me, so my dad and I started our own investigation.<p>We wrote a 34-page letter to the DA&#x27;s office, which you can read here: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ehrlichfirm.com&#x2F;criminal-cases&#x2F;raymond-lee-jennings-case.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ehrlichfirm.com&#x2F;criminal-cases&#x2F;raymond-lee-jennin...</a>
The letter persuaded them to reopen the murder investigation.<p>Last week, after 11 years behind bars, Ray walked out of court a free man. But he was released onto the street with no resources. Do any of the great minds at HN have any ideas about how I can help him get money for housing, food, and clothes?<p>The most obvious answer is litigation. And in a year or two, Ray will probably receive some compensation from the State. Unfortunately, there&#x27;s no way to access those funds in time to cover his immediate expenses.<p>In the future, Ray also may be able to earn some income talking about his story. Unfortunately, the charges against him won&#x27;t be formally dismissed for another 2 months, and until then he is understandably reticent about speaking publicly.<p>I have set up a GoFundMe campaign. It did well, but momentum has stalled. I&#x27;d appreciate any recommendations about how or where to promote it:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gofundme.com&#x2F;RayJennings" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gofundme.com&#x2F;RayJennings</a><p>Thanks for your help. I&#x27;m sorry that I was a bit caustic in previous posts asking for help with this case. I contacted the Mods, and they encouraged me to try again with a different approach.
======
bcks
Since you're in Los Angeles, you might try reaching out to Homeboy Industries:
[http://www.homeboyindustries.org/](http://www.homeboyindustries.org/)

They specialize in helping get folks back on their feet with job training.
They have a bakery program, a line of salsa, solar panel installation
training, etc. They hire ex-gang and previously incarcerated men and women.

Disclosure: I have enjoyed the salsa.

~~~
ClintEhrlich
I'm a big fan of Homeboy Industries, so I appreciate the suggestion. But I
don't think it's fair to put Ray into a program for ex-gang members.

Ray is a clean-cut, straight-arrow kind of guy, so it's been very hard for him
to spend the last 11 years of his life surrounded by actual criminals.

He really wants to become just another person — not an ex-con.

~~~
peteforde
Look, you've really gone above and beyond here. I think that's awesome.

But it's a bit of a drag to see you write off "ex-gang members" the way that
you did. These are human beings that deserve your respect. If someone does
their time and holds down a job, what's not to admire?

Your man was a soldier and he survived 11 years in prison as an innocent man.
I suspect that he'd really enjoy meeting the folks at Homeboy even if he
didn't end up working there.

~~~
ClintEhrlich
I value what Homeboy Industries is doing and I respect the people who are
participating in their programs and trying to turn their lives around. I wish
them nothing but success.

That said, it isn't a normal job training program. If you had a friend with no
criminal record who was looking for work, I doubt you send him to Homeboy
Industries in order to get job training.

Ray was in prison, but he isn't someone trying to turn his life around after
falling in with gangs or crime. He was a Sergeant in the U.S. military who had
his freedom taken for no reason.

He has just been forced to spend 11 years of his life with people from
backgrounds that led them into the criminal-justice system. Some of them are
good people, others are not. But none of them came from the same circumstances
as Ray, a man who risked his life for our country and never did anything to
society for which he needs to atone.

I will certainly tell him about Homeboy Industries and let him make his own
decisions. But I think it's totally reasonable if, after being forced to spend
11 years surrounded by convicts, he now chooses to seek out situations where
he will be able to spend time around "normal" folks.

~~~
Mz
This is something I understand completely. My "crime" was being born with the
wrong genes. My genetic disorder has closed a lot of doors for me, in spite of
my strong academic background. I also think many programs to help such people
do a lot of things inherently badly, so are often a bad idea, even if you need
reform. My experience with homelessness has been that a lot of programs can be
really detrimental to one's long term success.

I already left links to a couple of my sites in another comment. I will also
suggest panning for gold as a potential path forward. You can set your own
hours. The only human interaction required is finding a buyer, and I know an
online site if he is interested. It can pay decently.

I don't quite know what else to say. It has been a long day and I am tired. If
he is interested, I would rather discuss it (panning for gold) further
privately.

You are doing a good thing. Unfortunately, most people you speak with will not
see what you see: That he doesn't need reform because his life was stolen from
him. Most people just won't really get it. So, trying to find good answers
will be challenging.

My hat is off to you.

------
costcopizza
Churches.

I currently tutor a formerly homeless man whom I met through an Episcopal
church.

They saw him sleeping outside the front door and took him in. They connected
him with low income housing services who found him a subsidized apartment and
gave him a job working in the cafeteria of their school.

I'd visit a few parishes and ask friends/family who are churchgoing for
direction.

Best of luck and I hope Ray gets on his feet.

~~~
ClintEhrlich
That's a great thought.

Do you know of any online Christian outlets or forums that might be open to
promoting Ray's GoFundMe?

~~~
masukomi
I think people like to help more directly. I'd talk with churches in the same
state as Ray. Physical goods and places to be are as useful as money to a
person in that situation, and people typically have a lot of extra "stuff"
that they'd be happy to part with to help a person in need, especially if it
was brought up in church. They'd probably raise some money directly for him
too.

------
developer2
I know this is off topic to the direct question at hand but his case, assuming
the talking points found on this page I found[1] are true, is scary. No
evidence whatsoever, including fingernail DNA that _excluded_ him? What the
actual fuck.

>> Mr. Jennings voluntarily submitted to hours of police interviews and
interrogations and a polygraph test without objection or legal representation.

>> The evidence presented against Jennings at trial... statements and snippets
of statements taken from the hours of police interrogation of Jennings which
prosecutors said pointed to his guilt

It bears reminding, voluntarily speaking to police is _NEVER, EVER... EVER!!!_
the right thing to do. You try to help, but all it does is set you up as a
scapegoat. I'll do some more searching to find the answer, but all I can think
of now is what kind of judge or jury could have _possibly_ convicted this...
unless he accepted a plea.

>> prosecutors called forensic behavioral consultant, Mark Safarik, who
testified that it was his opinion that the crime was a sexually motivated
encounter which went bad; this, based on the fact that when found, O’Keefe’s
tube top was partially pulled down.

A "partially pulled down" tube top means sexual assault?! It couldn't be that
the attacker simply was grabbing at the victim?

>> because a security guard was on duty, it was highly unlikely that any other
offender would commit such a crime

How does one know whether a particular area is patrolled by security? Does
this forensic moron, and the judge listening to this testimony, really think
this is relevant?

These kinds of horror stories come up again, and again, and again in the US.
Just another reason I haven't crossed the border to that country in over a
decade.

[1] [http://justiceforray.webs.com/](http://justiceforray.webs.com/)

~~~
bbcbasic
Can a plea conviction be appealed / overturned? I admit my law knowledge is
from watching Law & Order. :-). But "Lawyer-up" is the take home from that
show (and by that token kids - ask for a lawyer not your mum or dad. you don't
need a cuddle you need legal help)

~~~
niccaluim
Yes, in California a judge can allow a plea to be withdrawn if it "serves the
interests of justice." This is the same mechanism used to expunge someone's
record after, e.g., completing probation. They are _required_ to set aside
guilty pleas if they learn that the party isn't guilty—even if the defendant
doesn't ask them to.

------
Jemmeh
Clothing: Thrift stores. Specifically, if you go to the church thrift stores
and you say "We are trying to help him get back on his feet" they will often
give you a discount and/or some clothes for free.

Jobs: Side gigs on craigslist. Lawn care, concrete, helping people move...you
can look on craigslist and find these. It's not perfect, but it's -some- cash
flow until he can find someone willing to hire.

Transportation: There are enough funds to get an old car for probably around
$1k or less just to start out. Can resell it later and get something better
once he gets more stable. But it will provide transport to side gigs and worst
case a roof over his head. I've had to sleep in my car more than a few times.

------
Mz
If he is in the LA area, he is not far from San Diego. You can get there by
bus, inexpensively, by taking local (commuter) buses instead of the Greyhound.
I spent over 3 years homeless down there. Here is my blog about resources in
San Diego county:
[http://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/](http://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/)

The North County is cheaper and has more open land for stealthily camping.

I also do freelance writing and one of my newest blogs covers that. It is
linked from that blog specifically, but here is the direct link:
[http://writepay.blogspot.com/](http://writepay.blogspot.com/)

That doesn't mean that what worked for me in specific will work for him in
specific, but it is a place to start.

If he is a veteran, he may also be entitled to free medical care and access to
other military services, though I don't know how his conviction impacts that.
I believe felons cannot get food stamps, so there may be a lot of things he
cannot access until after things are completely cleared up legally. In the
mean time, he can go to soup kitchens and the like for a meal.

My homeless blog takes the position that an individual's agency is incredibly
important. A lot of charity is done in a really harmful manner. I am not the
only person to have that idea. I recently tripped across a book titled "Toxic
Charity." So I try like hell to blog about what a person can access without
having to sell their soul, lose their dignity, give up their agency and so on.
That limits what is available, but I think it preserves things that really
matter.

Best of luck.

~~~
smilingtom
It gives me a weird feeling that you're trying to profit and become rich off
of homelessness. But, this is HN so... I guess its to be expected.

~~~
Mz
I started the blog solely to help keep track of information for myself. I
abandoned it for several months when I first left downtown San Diego and went
to the north county. I even posted a "Goodbye" post. Then, weirdly, even
without updates or any promotion whatsoever, it was getting organic traffic. I
discovered this because of the occasional few cents here and there showing up
on my Adsense account from the site.

Since the major city and the county have the same name and I was still in the
county, I decided to make it a countywide resource to the best of my ability.

It is shockingly hard for a homeless person to find the information they need
online. I have had a college class on how to do online search and sometimes
have difficulty finding things online so I can get an address and phone number
even when I know for a fact they exist.

Most websites for homeless service providers are not intended to be client
facing. They are intended to impress potential donors. They typically do a
poor job of telling needy individuals what they need to know.

So, there is demand for the info. I assure you, I am not getting rich off of
it. One of my Achilles heels is that I like being helpful. So, although this
is, sadly, one of the most successful projects I have ever had in terms of
traffic and being taken seriously as a valuable resource and making a
difference in the world, it has put damn little money in my pocket.

Further, I find it galling that a homeless individual is being criticized for
trying to monetize their expertise in the topic. Most of the time, I get this
shitty attitude that admitting to being homeless online amounts to me trying
to panhandle people. So, in other words, I am homeless, I am not allowed to
merit an earned income. I am only allowed to hope for charity and ingratiate
myself for crumbs. No matter how I get my money, it is inherently immoral.

And people wonder why my financial problems are proving to be so stubborn, as
well as why I have such strong feelings that the wrongly convicted individual
we are discussing should be allowed to pursue an income that doesn't involve
making a spectacle of his misfortune.

But, this is HN so...I guess it's to be expected.

(And I say "sadly" it is one of my most successful projects in part because
homelessness is on the rise nationwide. The general rise in homelessness is
part of why there is demand for the info. In my case, "getting rich" would
mean what? Getting off the street? How dare I aspire to such self indulgence
and selfishness when there are poorer homeless people than I.)

------
fecak
I wonder if Dateline would have interest in updating his story, and if there
might be any compensation for something like that. I'm not involved in TV
production, but you would think if they had enough interest to report on his
conviction (which happens every day) there would be an even better story
regarding his release.

~~~
ClintEhrlich
Dateline has asked me to sit down for an interview with Keith Morrison. I may
do that, but there will be no compensation involved.

~~~
mratzloff
You _may_ do that? You absolutely should. You're promoting his cause. See if
you can have space in the program to talk about his transition and the
financial assistance campaign in particular.

~~~
ClintEhrlich
There's a ton of media interest. I'm only going to appear on Dateline if I
have some assurance that the new piece will be fairer than the original one
that got my attention.

~~~
danso
What did you find unfair about the original piece? I haven't seen it but I had
assumed it would be relatively favorable if Dateline had chosen to publicize
the case 15 years after the murder and 6 years after the conviction.

~~~
ClintEhrlich
The Dateline piece came out right after Ray's conviction. I just happened to
see it 5 years later.

It portrayed him as a craven killer who was brought to justice only through
the Herculean efforts of police and prosecutors who wouldn't let the absence
of any physical evidence stop them from getting a conviction.

~~~
jean_claude
Well, people are often convicted based on circumstantial evidence. That's why
there is a jury, to weigh the available evidence. Personally, I wouldn't give
this guy any help based on what I've read, and certainly not without reading
the entire record of each trial. Also, the prosecutor should have definitely
sought a lower charge of manslaughter after the 2nd hung jury.

[http://www.thefreelibrary.com/TESTIMONY+IN+2000+SLAYING+CO-W...](http://www.thefreelibrary.com/TESTIMONY+IN+2000+SLAYING+CO-
WORKER+SAYS+HE+OVERHEARD+SUSPECT+TELL...-a0146287222)

Edit: added the following

Yeah, down-voting doesn't invalidate my my feelings on the matter, and looking
at the appelate court's decision to uphold the verdict [1] just affirms that I
would need a whole lot more convincing this guy is innocent.

[1]
[http://www.leagle.com/decision/In%20CACO%2020111219009/PEOPL...](http://www.leagle.com/decision/In%20CACO%2020111219009/PEOPLE%20v.%20JENNINGS)

~~~
zaroth
Why don't you try reading the letter OP wrote which got this man _released_
instead of shody reports of hearsay "evidence" from a 2-bit not-even-cop
trying to impress the detectives on the case?!

------
turc1656
I think sticking with the GoFundMe campaign is probably the best way to go.
But since it has stalled, it needs to be reinvigorated through some others
means. You need to get the attention of someone in the media who will publish
an article on the guy. Multiple articles from different publishers would be
ideal. If a few medium to high profile companies put something out there you
can definitely meet (and probably exceed) your goal. Think of the influx of
donations that would pour in if you made the front page of CNN, MSN, BBC, etc.

If you have social media accounts, post the links to your GoFundMe page and
the personal website you have listed above out on Twitter, Facebook, etc.
Better yet, include them as responses/messages directly to accounts held my
media corporations because someone at that company is reading them to monitor
their PR. And I bet most of the employees subscribe/follow that account as
well - and they might see it and pick it up. Example - "Hey @MSN, this story
needs to be spread. Please help this man get his life back.
[http://...."](http://....")

I also just made a modest donation in support of this cause.

~~~
ClintEhrlich
Thank you for your advice and your donation!

I am doing my best right now to reinvigorate the GoFundMe campaign. I'm
grateful to everyone who shares it with others!

------
danso
Because of the man's relatively common name, it was hard initially to find
articles in the mainstream press about his exoneration (at least compared to
his 2009 conviction). Here is a recent LA Times article that covers the
boilerplate: [http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-palmdale-
student...](http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-palmdale-student-
killed-20160623-snap-story.html)

~~~
ClintEhrlich
It's probably best to search for "Raymond Lee Jennings."

The media seem to prefer that formulation of his name, because it sounds
creepier.

This is the best news article: [http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-
ln-20160624-jenning...](http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-
ln-20160624-jennings-release-snap-story.html)

And this is a great blog post: [http://mimesislaw.com/fault-lines/prosecutors-
ask-court-to-r...](http://mimesislaw.com/fault-lines/prosecutors-ask-court-to-
release-guy-they-wrongfully-convicted/10775)

~~~
drzaiusapelord
The media is obligated to use full names as it differentiates people with
common names.

You can see this at work when, for whatever reason, killer Joel Rifkin was
only referred to by his first and last name for a long time in the tabloid
press. Lots of people share that name and it was unfair to them to be
associated with a killer. There was actually a Seinfeld episode making fun of
this as it became a problem in NY which has a lots of Rifkins. Now he's
typically referred to as Joel David Rifkin.

~~~
danso
I had a friend named Adam Moss...at his wedding, his father-in-law related the
shock he had in learning, via an Internet search, that the man his daughter
had fallen in love with was recently apprehended as a mass murderer:
[http://siouxcityjournal.com/news/local/adam-moss-who-
killed-...](http://siouxcityjournal.com/news/local/adam-moss-who-killed-in-
sioux-city-is-found-dead/article_a9b23621-4dee-575c-8176-1db4b1c7921e.html)

------
pthreads
How about a Kickstarter campaign to raise money for a self-published book? You
two can be co-authors that way people get to read his experiences as well as
your investigation.

It is an election year. Perhaps you could introduce him to Clinton's campaign.
They could hire him to do campaign related work (so he has a paycheck) while
she can use his story to make a case for reforms in the legal system.

~~~
remarkEon
I would definitely buy this book, and (Army vet here) a lot of my former
platoon members probably would too. One of my former squad leaders is a cop
now, and another platoon member is at the police academy. Anecdotally I can
say that, since a lot of vets end up in the LE community, interest in this
story would be there.

------
danso
I've only just read about the case but from the current vantage point, it
looks like a severe fuckup on the part of the district attorney. I know that
suspects revealing non-public details of a homicide can lead to an
investigation that uncovers more conclusive evidence...but to base an entire
case around that, without any other evidence linking them to the crime? I'm
looking forward to reading the post-mortem on how such a case gained enough
momentum to drive the DA to prosecute on such flimsy evidence.

edit: by "severe" fuckup, I also mean, just plain incomprehensible. At least
in other egregious cases, there's a mountain of quasi-science [1] or a coerced
false confession [2]...if the drama that managed to propel this bumbling case
this far forward doesn't result in at least a HBO miniseries a few years from
now, I will be very surprised.

[1] [http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/09/07/trial-by-
fire](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/09/07/trial-by-fire)

[2] [http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/507/c...](http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/507/confessions)

------
mtmail
In Germany the reimbursement is be 25 Euro[1] (28 USD) per day. I hope it's
more i the US and other countries.

[1]
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haftentsch%C3%A4digung](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haftentsch%C3%A4digung)

~~~
ClintEhrlich
In theory, California provides $124 a day in compensation to the wrongfully
imprisoned.

In practice, the State makes it VERY hard to ever recover those funds. There
are guys who were exonerated years ago who are still waiting to receive a
single penny.

~~~
pc86
Can you expound a little on what makes if difficult to recover the funds? What
hoops must one jump through that wouldn't be plainly evident in RLJ's
particular situation?

~~~
ClintEhrlich
Sure. There are two primary issues.

First, the standard for being compensated is higher than the one for being let
out of prison. Ray is free right now because the state has admitted that it no
longer has confidence in his conviction.

However, it has not affirmatively conceded his innocence. That may sound
pedantic. It let him out of prison and admits he isn't the target of the
ongoing investigation. But from a legal perspective, it makes all the
difference in regards to whether he is actually entitled to compensation.

Second, even if the State agrees that someone is theoretically entitled to
compensation, there are significant budgetary delays. State law requires
public hearings before funds can be appropriated, so sometimes you have to
wait months upon months for the funds to be allocated... much less actually
delivered.

~~~
xenadu02
This is one area where Texas is far ahead of California.

------
a3n
These people have gotten people out of prison, I'm guessing that they've run
across your issue and probably have ideas or places to refer:
[https://www.themarshallproject.org/about](https://www.themarshallproject.org/about)

------
eggestad
First of all you should take pride in what you have done already. You've gone
way beyond what most of your fellow country men will ever do.

While I understand, you're doing the wrong thing by focusing on this single
individual. Since this guy is someone you have gotten to know, you have an
emotional tie that is making you blind to the cold hard truth.

This happens to someone everyday.

\- Parents have a falling out with their adolescent children and kick them out
\- Runaway kids run out of money, and by running out I mean: zero zilch nada
\- Addicts just run out of money as well as in zero zilch nada \- Explosive
break up of couple where one gets locked out \- Eviction by landlords or as a
result of bankruptcy etc etc etc

Most have friend or family to help out, and you'll never heard about them.
Those who don't are the one you see sleeping on the streets. Thats assuming
that you're not one of those that just stay between our office, the mall, and
the safe gated community in the suburbs where the hobos are nicly or of sight
out of mind. This is what most people do...

You can do one of two things. a) Take the position that's you've helped one
guy out of jail. If every body helped one person, everybody in need would be
out of homelessness in a forth night. Quite frankly, your guy is just so much
better of just living on the street than in jail, so if you take this position
you've done your part for king and country. I will not fault you for taking
this position.

b) Start working on something, anything, that goes towards a solution that
take care of everybody.

I'm a bit astonished that you can't go to the court and argue that as there is
no way he is not going to get some kind of compensation, the state can just as
well right now front up something like $1000 - $10000 to help him get
reestablished. If there is some crap about there is case law not too, then
this is call to start working on abolishing the whole concept of common law
and switch to a civil law system. (I know this means getting the legislative
to replace the current body of case law with some more sensible civil code. A
task for which the word "hard" falls short.)

I just take the position we need to work on the whole problem , and that doing
this by individual you're effectively just doing a band aid. Remember the
phrase "the road to hell is paved with good intentions?" You make actually be
making it worse by doing it by individuals as it may hide the true scope and
scale of the problem.

~~~
ElijahLynn
Yeah, if our system puts innocent people away they should reimburse them for
that severe fuck up. Maybe focus on changing that law, for the big picture.

~~~
Falcon9
Such laws vary by state: [http://www.innocenceproject.org/compensating-
wrongly-convict...](http://www.innocenceproject.org/compensating-wrongly-
convicted/)

------
pmarreck
> A year ago, I saw a Dateline NBC episode about an Iraq-war vet, Sgt. Ray
> Jennings, who allegedly killed an 18-year-old girl in a parking lot. The
> evidence didn't persuade me, so my dad and I started our own investigation.

You're amazing!

I donate to The Innocence Project, because I think putting innocent people
into jail is just about the worst thing you can do to someone short of
rape/kill them.

~~~
limeyx
Indeed, and then when you look a little deeper and realize that the goals of
the "Justice" system are essentially to "prosecute and convict" as many people
as possible and the people who prosecute are almost 100% protected from
anything bad they do as long as they are chasing those goals

And then realize that even if it becomes obvious that someone is (or most
likely is) innocent or has been pushed into a plea deal to avoid an even
longer sentence for something they didn't do

You just want to puke

Somehow the ideals of justice got thrown out somewhere here in the US

------
sixdimensional
Apologies if you already thought of the following:

Post it on Reddit and also see if CNN will pick up your story. I have seen CNN
post stories involving GoFundMe campaigns related to good/human interest
stories in the past and those campaigns got a good boost. Plus, the folks on
Reddit also always love to support a good story.

If Mr. Jennings does decide to open up in the future, maybe even try to get an
"IAmA wrongly convicted man" story published where Reddit can interview him?
That would be an interesting raising awareness attempt.

With regards to Reddit, you might try reaching out to Alexis Ohanian via
Twitter or other channels to see if he has any suggestions.

P.S. Go Claremont :) Used to live there.

------
danso
Maybe premature to think about this, but once the full story can be told, this
seems like the perfect candidate for Serial Season 3...I'm really fascinated
to know what jurors, detectives, and prosecutors were thinking.

(Coincidentally, the accused murderer who was the focus of Serial's first
season, has just been granted a new trial, according to an announcement just 5
minutes ago [http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/us/serial-adnan-syed-
new-t...](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/us/serial-adnan-syed-new-
trial.html))

------
drawnalong
I'm an Afghan combat veteran in Los Angeles who has recent first hand
knowledge of how to navigate the homeless-to-housing pipeline through the West
LA VA, along with a great resource list of other things: transitional housing,
transport, getting into the VA system, psychiatric care, benefits claims, VSOs
(veteran service organizations) and so on.

Also, if Ray wants to speak to a good counselor, a Vietnam combat vet and
outstanding man, I can't speak any more highly than my own counselor. I credit
with him with me still being around.

Happy to assist in any way whatsoever. My email is username at gmail.

------
LyndsySimon
Post in the appropriate "Hometown forum" on AR15.com. As he is a veteran, I'm
confident that someone there will be able to help - I've watched the members
of that site have come through in a big way innumerable times in the past.

[http://www.ar15.com/forums/b/8_Hometown.html](http://www.ar15.com/forums/b/8_Hometown.html)

------
dvcc
This may not be the greatest idea, and may not even be realistic but are there
not cash advances on a pending/future lawsuit? I imagine the terms are not
friendly, but it may be more successful than a GoFundMe campaign if he becomes
desperate enough.

~~~
ClintEhrlich
Unfortunately, Ray's case has not advanced far enough to make litigation
financing a practical option. Financing firms need significantly more
assurance of a realistic payoff than they would be able to obtain at this
juncture.

~~~
jessriedel
Do you have a link to anything more concrete about that?

~~~
ClintEhrlich
Just my own experience submitting judgments to litigation funding firms while
cases were pending on appeal.

------
zaidf
You succeeded in getting a lawyer to take on this case(okay, he was your
father, but still.) Now try doing the same with getting a top notch PR person
with experience getting television exposure.

1) Reach out to top PR consultants

2) Explain this story to them in a paragraph

3) Tell them you need their help in helping get his story out

4) Big part of getting his story out would involve pushing his gofundme page.

~~~
Mz
I hope you do not take this suggestion too seriously. He didn't want to be
convicted and he may not want the entire rest of his life to be dependent upon
him telling his story and spilling his guts in public to pay the bills. It is
one thing if he WANTS to tell his story. But maybe he just wants his damn life
back. In which case, this could be just a way to add insult to injury.

I would try to give him options for getting his needs met that did not require
him to make a spectacle of himself to eat. If he wants to be a crusader or if
he finds it therapeutic to talk about it publicly for the rest of his life,
that's fine. But maybe he just wants his life back and THAT'S IT. In which
case, trying to go this route without asking him how he feels about it or
offering him other alternatives is not great.

~~~
dandelany
"trying to go this route without asking him" \- who said anything about not
asking him? Seems pretty obvious that this would be the implied first step.

~~~
Mz
I have spent 4.5 years homeless. Prior to that, I was an award winning
student, and then a respected military wife and homeschooling mom. (Edit: Oh,
yeah, I also worked for a Fortune 500 company for over 5 years.)

Being homeless has given me loads of firsthand experience with how cavalier
people are about completely disregarding the human dignity and agency of
individuals they view as _charity cases._ So, I felt compelled to speak up and
say "Please, don't view this as necessarily a great idea. There is more at
stake here than money. Please, don't sell this man out because of his current
financially desperate straits. That can make it impossible for him to get the
life he desires and it can be done to him without his permission."

And the degree to which people here are shouting me down suggests to me that,
no, most folks here wouldn't ask. They think it's a great idea. I am a lone
voice on the side of respecting his dignity, personal choice and right to
privacy first and foremost. And I find it baffling that people can claim well
"Obviously, we wouldn't do any such thing" while doing exactly that thing. I
have always found that baffling. But here it is again.

~~~
bardworx
Just my 2 cents, so please read with a grain of salt.

From your story, you appear to have a stronger connection to Ray's story then
most folk on this site. Since you were in similar circumstances (without
means), you have an understanding of how one can feel in that situation and
your reaction is just, when viewed from that side.

On the other hand, people who read HN are entrepreneurial in spirit and
instantly see it through their lense of "solving a problem". It is my opinion
that most folk here have no problem doing what is necessary to get their story
across or "sell themselves" to achieve a goal (within reason). Hence, to them,
Ray's situation should be attacked with a similar POV as drumming support for
a startup or idea.

I believe the misunderstanding comes from the way you are viewing Ray as a
person and attempting to preserve his decency in the event he's not
comfortable with some of the suggestions while others are viewing his
situation as an issue to solve/conquer without similar experience. Both
opinions are right but for different reasons.

Regardless, I'm glad that you had the strength to overcome your own hardships.
Hopefully Ray has similar success.

~~~
Mz
Thank you for commenting.

My view is strongly shaped by the negative reactions I have gotten over the
years on HN, where I have only sought to be taken seriously as an
entrepreneur, but have largely failed in that endeavor. So I am very familiar
firsthand with how much harm can be done to one's ability to support
themselves when there is a lot of public attention given to them in a way that
frames them as a victim, a charity case, and so on.

I have about six years of college. I was an award winning student. I am the
top ranked woman on HN _while homeless_ and, yet, I cannot get people here to
take me seriously that the only damn thing I need in order to make my fucked
up life actually work is arranging for an (adequate amount of) earned income
that does not keep me ill.

In spite of the famous saying that _There is no such thing as bad publicity_ ,
I have experienced firsthand that there absolutely is such a thing as _bad
publicity._

Entrepreneurs are promoting their work and accomplishments. It has a
completely different impact on your life when what is publicized is how you
have been a victim, how pathetic your life currently is and so on. That in no
way convinces people to give you paid work, whether as an employee or a
freelancer.

------
2pointsomone
I write this knowing how bad of an idea it is but it still is a gut reaction
so I will say it. Find a way to move him to Oakland and get him to be on the
YC Basic Income experiment. I bet the learning to YCR from this would be
extremely high, given I feel like fixing the prison system will probably be on
their agenda for future research.

~~~
jpindar
It would pretty much ruin the experiment if they allowed volunteers.

------
wyldfire
The letter itself: [http://www.ehrlichfirm.com/jennings/Ray-Jennings-Letter-
to-C...](http://www.ehrlichfirm.com/jennings/Ray-Jennings-Letter-to-CRU-
October-2-2015.pdf)

~~~
ScottBurson
I've read about halfway through it and I'm just appalled. They prosecuted
Jennings for the sole reason that they had no idea how to find the actual
killer. But someone had to pay, and Jennings was the least unlikely suspect
that they actually knew how to find (though they had to wait for him to come
home from serving in Iraq!).

This conviction is a black mark on the record of the great State of
California. And it really shows the dangers of listening too closely to
victims and their families, who are (understandably, in their pain) often much
too quick to fixate on a suspect. Yes, they wanted justice for their daughter
-- I get that. But true justice required finding the actual killer. Putting an
innocent man in prison is not justice for anybody.

BTW I've chipped into the GoFundMe campaign.

------
jimmc
I own a small business in OC (miltonsecurity) and I have a Vet program where I
hire them for up to 6 months, pay for training courses (CCNA online at the
office) and rotate them around to different groups (sales, support,
engineering) If they get their CCNA we then advance them.

I would be willing to do this for him (its not a lot of money to start, but
its something, and he can get some training while he waits for the DA)

jim

------
ClintEhrlich
Woah, thanks to all the HN posters who just started donating money!!! That's
REALLY generous of you guys. I appreciate it, and so does Ray.

------
cbames89
What'd he do in the military? He may be able to leverage those skills for
immediate employment.

~~~
ClintEhrlich
He was an infantryman. Kicked down doors in Iraq going room-to-room searching
for insurgents.

Until the charges are formally dismissed, it's hard to imagine any employer
will actually be willing to hire him. The DA's office is really making his
life hard by refusing to just immediately stipulate that he's an innocent man.

~~~
rdl
I suspect you could probably convince smaller businesses to be ok on the
background check, with disclosure. If I were hiring, I'd do it on his merits
(Iraq vet makes up for the extra hassle with a background investigation, at
least for me.)

(Also, fuck the DA. What is it with SoCal and horrible DAs?)

~~~
jessaustin
s/SoCal/USA/

It's not really a surprise; no decent person would voluntarily sign up to send
pot-smokers to prison.

------
kbagby
Jon Eldan, a former corporate attorney who works with exonerees, runs a
project called After Innocence that may be able to help/provide some guidance
with respect to healthcare, pro bono legal representation, and social
services: [http://www.after-innocence.org/](http://www.after-innocence.org/)

------
josephmosby
You may want to reach out to the Medill Justice Project at Northwestern
University
([http://www.medilljusticeproject.org/](http://www.medilljusticeproject.org/)).
What you and your dad did is what they do all the time, so they may have some
resources that can help out.

------
Rexxar
I'm maybe a little optimistic but why not ask a big and rich university to
give him a free education and shelter for 3/4 years ? It could be good for him
and for the university image (It would be a better usage of university money
than recruiting people bases on their athletics skills IMHO).

------
femto
Talk to the St Vincent de Paul society [1]. It's part of the Catholic Church,
but they are there to serve everyone, regardless of religious beliefs, and
won't pass judgement or bang on about their own religious beliefs. Helping
people in Ray's situation is what they do every day, with material assistance,
counseling or any other need. Even if Ray doesn't want direct assistance, he
may get some useful advice by chatting to them. No need to walk into a church.
Just walk into any of their shops and ask to talk to someone, or Ray can call
them and they will discretely come to him.

[1] [https://www.svdpusa.org/Assistance-
Services](https://www.svdpusa.org/Assistance-Services)

------
soyiuz
Reach out to faculty at UCLA (and other unis/colleges in the area) who work on
issues of incarceration. See for example the list of attendees/organizers at
this conference: [https://law.ucla.edu/centers/social-policy/critical-race-
stu...](https://law.ucla.edu/centers/social-policy/critical-race-
studies/events/2014/2016/9/23/2016-Prisoners-Advocates-Conference/). They
often have slush funds to hire research assistants, guest speakers, etc.

------
poof131
One place to look is resources for veterans. California has some great
ones.[1] See about filing for any disabilities that may be related to time in
service and if there is any way to get treatment and help through the VA.
Also, look for other non-profit veteran resources beyond just the state and
federal.

[1][https://www.calvet.ca.gov/VetServices/Documents/Veteran_%20R...](https://www.calvet.ca.gov/VetServices/Documents/Veteran_%20Resource_%20Book_2016.pdf)

------
wireedin
Hollywood, maybe? Netflix made a series on Steven Avery that created an
enormous amount of attention to that case. Him being in the army, coming back
to his country, being arrested for a activity that he didn't do, spending 11
years behind the bars and finally being released as an innocent man is a great
story to tell. Since hollywood is running out of stories these days that could
be an option. Hell, maybe Netflix would want to tie this to the next season of
"Making a murderer"?

~~~
yitchelle
It might be a naive question, do you know if Steven Avery or his family came
away from those TV shows with some money?

~~~
wireedin
Don't know those details but his lawyers obviously worked with Netflix on
creation of the series. It would be hard to imagine that there was no
compensation involved.

~~~
wireedin
Also on a different note, investing a little money/time on creating an
emotional video and posting it on social networks might help on advertising
the GoFundMe campaign thus generating more funds.

------
joe8756438
There are many organizations around the country that supply free business
attire to people in need. In New York City, where I'm based, main one is
"Dress for Success" and in Baltimore there is "Success In Style". I'm sure
there is something similar in Clint's area. There might be a directory these
organizations online OR just call up either of the ones I mentioned, I bet
they could connect you to a place that would help.

------
mcooley
Before I moved away recently, I had dinner pretty regularly with the guys at
Dismas House Nashville (dismas.org), which provides transitional housing for
former offenders. They do a great job helping people get back on their feet
with housing, jobs, etc. I don't know if they can help directly, but if Ray
has roots in North Carolina perhaps the staff there (I've worked with Davey
and Scott) know people in the southeast region who could help.

------
jeffmould
For some local reentry links in the area you can use 211 San Diego:

[http://www.211sandiego.org/Re-entry](http://www.211sandiego.org/Re-entry)

Also, I can put you in contact with an individual in the LA area that may have
some contacts as well (he served 25+ years in federal prison and is works to
help people who have been released. He is in LA). My email is in my profile.

------
ElijahLynn
I was thinking of starting a website a while ago and even bought the domain,
then released it, called www.helpahomelessperson.com. The goal behind it
is/was to just list a homeless person and their needs, a person who is more
well off would have to post their listing most likely and they would take
pictures, video interviews and tell their story for them.

Then you would have people that wanted to help (visitors) and would browse
around the site and find a story of someone who struck a chord with them and
they could donate anonymously or publicly in terms of anything they wanted.

The key to the site is for someone to be an amabassador for the homeless
person and really get that persons story out there and up on the site. The
'internet' would do the rest.

Also caution would need to be taken to not force someone to accept a person's
donation, because some people might expect something in return or just be bad
news, like a company who just wants publicity.

Anyways, the idea is still valid, I just haven't had the time to pursue it
yet.

This happens all the time I am sure. Would be a great Show HN.

------
VaedaStrike
If you don't know what church the Mormon Church will help whomever.

[http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/2016/06/24/mormon-...](http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/2016/06/24/mormon-
welfare-program/31091/)

------
akeck
In addition to what others have covered, connect him with a pro bono counselor
to help him smooth out the inevitable ups and downs as his new life unfolds,
and also to help coordinate other medical care. Also, help him get signed up
for base health insurance under Obamacare. Finally, find him a pro bono
accountant, if you can, to help him discover and correct any tax issues that
may have come up while he was in prison. It would suck for him to go from
freedom right back into the court system due to some easily corrected tax
issue.

------
jxramos
I read this post earlier and then just read this City Journal article where
the founder of the company America Works describes his history with the war on
poverty and welfare to work programs. The focus is to get people entry level
jobs and he apparently has a good track record of doing it.

Good luck!

[http://www.city-journal.org/html/what-i-learned-poverty-
war-...](http://www.city-journal.org/html/what-i-learned-poverty-
war-13513.html)

------
rhizome
Have you tried contacting a social worker in their locality?

------
maesho
Please help Ross Ulbrich

[https://freeross.org/](https://freeross.org/)

[http://www.drugpolicy.org/news/2016/03/retired-federal-
judge...](http://www.drugpolicy.org/news/2016/03/retired-federal-judge-law-
enforcement-and-leading-drug-reform-organization-ask-court-re)

------
jamie_
[Off topic] I am surprised that the DA reopened the case, particularly with an
actual jury verdict under their belt. What incentive do you think the DA had
to reopen the case? Were they just afraid to lose on appeal? Speaking of
appeal, how far up in the court system did the appeal go? And was the original
prosecutor still at the DA's office?

~~~
michaelhoffman
District attorneys are supposed to work for justice, not to win cases. If
there is compelling evidence that a guilty verdict is incorrect, then re-
opening the case is the right thing to do.

------
amelius
> The most obvious answer is litigation. And in a year or two, Ray will
> probably receive some compensation from the State. Unfortunately, there's no
> way to access those funds in time to cover his immediate expenses.

Make sure this money gets managed properly. You don't want him to spend this
money in just a few months.

------
duncan_bayne
"The 12 jurors convicted Ray, then went to a candlelight vigil with the
victim's parents."

Words fail me.

------
stevewillows
This is fantastic! It's a shame to lose eleven years of your life, but it's
inspiring that a citizen was willing to put in the effort to clear his name.

Outside of the immediate help, it'd be great for Dateline to do a follow up
story documenting your efforts.

------
kaila
You might try getting in touch with a local Quaker Meeting. Quakers tend to
care a lot about social justice (many have backgrounds in social work) and
often support the types of organizations that help folks find things like
housing, food, and clothes.

------
loteck
From the sounds of it the man is former military and has been mistreated by
the justice system. I presume his "record" will soon be clean.

We should find this man a job inside the criminal justice system. Would he
consider working in a police department?

~~~
jontas
From the various articles, he was in the process of becoming a US Marshal when
these events unfolded.

------
antisugar
A lot of colleges and churches will lend people suit jackets and or leather
shoes for job interviews. That really helps people, just make sure they feel
comfortable and warm/cool enough and don't smell bad for job interview.

------
fsloth
I'm amazed both at the injustice of this ruling and at the nobility and
skillfullness of you actions which rescued Mr. Jennings from decades of
imprisonment. Well done sirs! Sadly I can't help with you original question.

------
antisugar
Basic simple cheap outdoor/indoor clothing that is suitable for job
interviews. See if you can find it at goodwill. Merino sweater, patagonia
jacket or old wool suit, glasses, toothbrush, good backpack, from thrift
store.

------
bradnickel
I tried to contribute and I get this message:

Campaign Not Ready There's an issue with this Campaign Organizer's account.
Our team has contacted them with the solution! Please ask them to sign in to
GoFundMe and check their account

------
gravypod
Man, that's insane. Does anyone have links to articles about the prosecution?
I want to see how this was sold to the public so I can look out for "warning
signs" that show up in other cases.

------
ap46
Go to reddit, there'll be people willing to help. Start with an AmA

------
apo
Very hard to understand how he was convicted in the first place:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYYiAT0g3iQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYYiAT0g3iQ)

------
rdl
I assume you will be going into criminal defense law once you pass the bar?
Seems like it would be a waste for you to do anything else.

~~~
ClintEhrlich
Actually no. I hope this will be the only criminal case I'm ever involved in.

I'm about to spend a year as a Visiting Researcher at the Moscow Institute of
International Relations, where I'll be writing my dissertation on nuclear game
theory and international law.

------
tardo99
I read the articles a bit, but I didn't find any information on who the real
killer was. Are there any leads?

~~~
ClintEhrlich
Yes, but I can't talk about them because it's part of an active investigation.

~~~
tardo99
Also, was there one piece of evidence that really proved he couldn't have done
it? I read a bunch of it, and it sounds like you can't prove anything beyond a
reasonable doubt, but that he still might have done it (meaning, there just
isn't much to go on).

~~~
tempestn
Your comment might be read to imply that he shouldn't be exonerated unless
proven innocent, but giving the benefit of the doubt I expect you're just
wondering whether the evidence does in fact prove innocence, or whether it was
simply shown not to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt (both of which
should result in exoneration). I'm curious myself.

~~~
tardo99
I know and agree he should be exonerated if the "beyond a reasonable doubt"
standard can't be reached. I was just curious if there was some evidence that
showed that he was factually innocent.

------
antisugar
Basic good looking comfortable outdoor/indoor clothing from thrift stores
suitable for job interviews.

------
curiousgal
Try Reddit.

~~~
hacker42
[https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4q0c3k/iama_law_stude...](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4q0c3k/iama_law_student_who_just_freed_an_innocent_man/)

------
13of40
What did he study in prison?

------
mangeletti
Clint (or @dang if it's too late for Clint to edit the OP):

Can you please update the OP to include this:

[http://GoFundMe.com/RayJennings](http://GoFundMe.com/RayJennings)

Put it on its own line like that, near the top.

You have many up-votes (probably thousands of readers), but only a few
donations. This might be because the URL is easy to miss.

A lot of people skim large posts.

~~~
ClintEhrlich
This was a very good suggestion! :)

------
smoyer
Ask Peter Thiel to fund his litigation against the state and to put up his
living expenses until he wins.

~~~
gerby
If Peter helped this man to get on his feet and find justice, that would be a
very noble act. I'm personally willing to donate this exonerated man a
computer and teach him how to code user interfaces remotely if he wants. If I
could afford to do more, I would. OP Please e-mail me at
eddie@trycontractit.com

~~~
ClintEhrlich
That's very kind of you, Eddie! I'll be in touch.

Ray actually just got a laptop, and I'm teaching him the basics of computing.
It's amazing how much things have changed in 11 years!

------
moptar
I don't understand why there's such unanimous words of support for someone who
directly contributed to the half million deaths in the Iraq war. I know it's
unrelated to his case, but perhaps his prison sentence and current predicament
can be seen as karmic retribution. I know that's not how justice works, but I
don't think we'd see such enthusiastic support for a serial killer who had
trouble supporting himself after getting released.

~~~
brbsix
The way society is presently arranged, military personnel are absolved of (a
great deal of) their moral agency. They have surrendered it to a higher
authority, to the state. You can see it experientially in the Milgram
experiment. It's incredible more people don't find this troubling, it has me
at a loss for words.

~~~
moptar
It seems to be that way. Weren't the Nuremberg trials supposed to have
established the idea the soldiers, or at least officers passing orders along
can be guilty even if they're following orders? I suppose those were for more
clear cut war crimes and the Iraq soldiers were mostly quite removed from the
actual killing they triggered.

------
Bromskloss
I wish this question could be directed at the people who put him in prison.

------
throwawaylalala
Start a Go fund me campaign.

