
Feds may let Playpen child porn suspect go to keep concealing their source code - ghosh
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/01/feds-may-let-playpen-child-porn-suspect-go-to-keep-concealing-their-source-code/
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jobu
Essentially this means they're willing to let all 135 defendants walk rather
than reveal the source code. (IANAL, but I'm pretty sure that when one of them
goes free because of this, it sets a precedent that all defendants can use.)

This seems really fishy. The only way it makes sense is if the FBI is doing
something massively illegal in that source code, and I can't even fathom what
that would be. Perhaps there is no source code, and they're using NSA tools or
other illegal wiretapping methods instead.

~~~
WildUtah
They can still prosecute anyone they caught by independent means. It's just a
matter of having some other way to search their computers, which is just a
formality in most prosecutions. It's exceedingly easy to get a warrant against
anyone these days; that's why they have parallel construction.

~~~
rincebrain
The problem appears to be that they didn't doso, and they took over the site
for ~2w before shutting it down, so they no longer _could_ doso if they wanted
to.

I'm entertained that they're going to such lengths essentially to conceal
their 0days. Did they assume the judges were just going to let them skirt by
without verifying how they identified people? You'd think they'd have learned
from the days of IDing piracy by IP address that it's generally not going to
fly any more.

~~~
WildUtah
Giving up cases only if a competent public defender wants proof of guilt,
including technology used, is a longstanding practice. [0] Then you underfund
the PDs and live content that criminals rich enough to have a lawyer will
often go free.

It's a beautiful justice system.

[0][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingray_phone_tracker](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingray_phone_tracker)

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superkuh
If there were any DA with integrity they'd drag the agents involved in this to
a grand jury to get the evidence and code, then indict them put them on trial
as the criminals they are.

But it won't happen because no DA would ever go prosecute anyone from the FBI
unless the orders came from some politically powerful source. Too much risk to
their career and of backlash.

~~~
nhumrich
You could also argue that if the DA had ethics they would let the FBI catch
these disgusting child porn criminals. It really goes both ways. And while the
FBI might be criminals, who would you rather see behind jail? The people who
track adults without warrants or the ones who track naked children?

~~~
lightbyte
>The people who track adults without warrants

This is much worse in my opinion. Doing it to catch "disgusting child porn
criminals" shows they know it is wrong, but they think they can get away with
it because "the ends justify the means". First they came for the child porn
criminals, etc.

~~~
subcosmos
I don't think you understand how awful these crimes are or how many lives they
destroy.

Victimized children don't really ever recover.

~~~
Dylan16807
The victimization of children is not the crime they're going after here.

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AndrewKemendo
So the options are:

1\. Reveal code which will explain the exploit. This would take down the
existing ring, but also allow other child-pornographers to patch their systems
(probably the politically worst thing possible). It may also reveal publicly
controversial investigative methods of the FBI.

2\. Keep code private and potentially see the existing perps walk. This would
preserve the exploit (maybe) for use another day, but might also be a risk to
civil liberties.

What a mess.

~~~
junto
You've missed:

3\. Be forced to admit in court that there is no source code and the
defendants were identified by the NSA illegally spying, storing and analysing
the internet traffic of all US citizens. The NSA hands the IP addresses to the
FBI and the FBI fabricate the idea of "source code" as parallel construction
in order to hide the NSA's activities.

~~~
digler999
or 4 (perhaps the most benevolent possibility): They'd rather use the fear of
the unknown as a bigger deterrent against further pursuit of CP than getting a
handful of convictions. People who are involved now or thinking about it may
stop or never get involved at all if there's > 0% probability that the feds
are holding on to a working 'sploit.

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Nexxxeh
So were they actually caught with anything incriminating, or is the only thing
identifying them the IP address that the FBI seemingly obtained through now
classified means?

Is the TL;DR: They were caught with child porn, but that evidence is
inadmissible because the warrant that let the FBI find it relied upon this
"NIT", and the FBI won't reveal the NIT?

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Mizza
A related talk really worth watching:
[https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-8136-stopping_law_enforcement_ha...](https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-8136-stopping_law_enforcement_hacking#video&t=1518)

Makes the very solid argument the government hacks are like oilspills.

