
Tesla appears to defy Bay Area shutdown, plans to operate Fremont factory - widowlark
https://electrek.co/2020/03/16/tesla-fremont-factory-shut-down-shelter-in-place/
======
mkolodny
Personally, I think this is incredibly irresponsible. Elon told his workers to
stay home even if they feel "slightest bit ill or even uncomfortable" [0].
Yet, according to the CDC, symptoms may not appear until 2-14 days after
exposure [1]. So Tesla employees may be spreading the virus to each other, and
the rest of the world, without knowing it.

In the Alameda order which describes what "essential businesses" may remain
open, the closest loophole I can see that might allow the Tesla factory to
stay open is for "Airlines, taxis, and other private transportation providers
providing transportation services necessary for Essential Activities and other
purposes expressly authorized in this Order" [2]. I think it's more than a
stretch to say that building new cars counts as transportation services.
Repairing existing Teslas, sure. But I don't think Tesla should be allowed to
keep building new cars. And I think if Elon cares about his workers' safety,
and the safety of the world, he would ask his employees who are building new
cars to stay home.

[0] [https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-
tesla-...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-tesla-
factory/teslas-u-s-factory-to-stay-open-as-coronavirus-lockdown-begins-report-
idUSKBN2140Q8) [1] [https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-
testing/s...](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-
testing/symptoms.html) [2] [http://acphd.org/media/559658/health-officer-
order-shelter-i...](http://acphd.org/media/559658/health-officer-order-
shelter-in-place-20200316.pdf)

~~~
eganist
Judging from the full body of his email (which I'm guessing plenty of people
read before it even reached the news judging from how many of my friends sent
it to me), it seems like he really _doesn 't_ care about his staff.

Choice quote:

> I will personally be at work, but that's just me. Totally okay if you want
> to stay at home for any reason.

If this isn't the most peer-pressure-y way to tell people to show up, I don't
know what is. The head of the company choosing to keep showing up to the
office in the middle of an outbreak is the exact opposite of the precedent he
should be setting right now.

Shoot, he can even tell people he's going to work from home and still secretly
come to the office; people would understand. It's his company. Or he could've
just not mentioned his plans at all. But by mentioning his plans, his direct
reports will still show up, their direct reports will largely still show up,
and anyone who doesn't want demerits on their performance reviews will all
still show up. No different from an unlimited leave policy where people take
no leave.

This is absolutely wrong. And hopefully illegal. And I definitely did cancel
my Tesla order (RN112815329) because of it.

~~~
koheripbal
I suspect people with vulnerable household members will probably not show up,
regardless of their reporting structure.

~~~
joejerryronnie
Not if they also want to put food on the table.

------
____a
"Alameda declares Telsa an 'essential business,' factory allowed to operate
under cornavirus orders" [https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Alameda-
declared-Telsa-a...](https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Alameda-declared-
Telsa-an-essential-business-is-15137716.php)

~~~
bdcravens
How is an electric car factory an essential business?

I hope someone follows the money and prosecutes Elon if he exercised any
financial influence here.

~~~
labcomputer
Without commenting on whether it is sound, the logic seems to be that
transportation (particularly private transportation) is essential. Thus, auto
repair and supply businesses have been exempted as "essential businesses"
(they are specifically called out in all 6 Bay Area county orders).

Taking this one step further, auto repair businesses can't very well repair
cars if there are no parts available, and those parts come from Fremont.
Therefore, the Tesla factory would (at least in part) theoretically already
qualify for an exemption under the existing order.

One could also make the argument that (given that private transportation has
been deemed an "essential" service) replacing worn out or destroyed cars is
essential, and thus manufacturing finished cars qualifies for an exemption.

~~~
mech1234
Your argument can be extended infinitely. It's pretty easy to understand that
Tesla (and any other assembly plants that fit in this window) is simply
getting special treatment here.

The factory that makes hydraulic fluid for Tesla's presses that stamp out car
parts is also part of the transportation supply chain, As is the oil refinery
that supplies feedstock to the hydraulic oil vendor.

~~~
jsight
Honestly, your point is valid except for the part about special treatment.
From what I've heard, window tint shops are staying open too based upon the
same exemption. Its a confusing time and the regulators haven't fully thought
this exemption through.

(Just to be clear, I'm not defending Tesla here. They have the choice to
shutdown regardless of government order or exemptions)

~~~
selectodude
If a business owner wants to skirt the regulations by following the letter of
the law instead of the spirit of it, that's fine and we can consider them all
assholes. The rules are to keep people from getting sick. I hope all of his
employees go on strike like the Mercedes and VW ones.

~~~
lol636363
People worship him, no one has guts to strike at Tesla

------
lmeyerov
Yuck, leadership at its worst. It's tough to shut down factories - restarts
are sensitive - so it makes sense to allow a skeleton crew. That's not what's
happening. This looks like obvious local corruption in the face of a public
health crisis. Not thrilled to be "shelter at home-d" next to these pricks
with a wife who works at an area hospital and someone elderly at home: this is
quite the FU to the community that keeps bailing this government-funded
company out.

I've been keeping a tally of companies and leaders who force people to come to
the office or use this as a marketing opportunity (vs data4good), and Tesla is
now on the shortlist for evil.

~~~
panarky
_> government-funded company_

Has Tesla received taxpayer subsidies for anything in the last year or two
other than customer incentives to buy zero emission vehicles?

~~~
lmeyerov
That's a myopic view of the largely tax-payer enabled Tesla/SpaceX/SolarCity
conglomorate. I don't expect a company largely bootstrapped by massive US gov
program awards & free passes+subsidies to give equity to the gov despite the
massive capital investment, but backroom calls to circumvent public health
policy is somewhere between "far below baseline expectations" and "evil".

I'm happy we have real civic-level project funding for people who get results,
and private citizens reaping massive profits from them. In fact, I think the
real genius of Musk & Thiel is to be self-enriching versions of FDR, and the
DC prime etc. mess has forced their need. But that doesn't excuse evil - there
are real lives involved,.

~~~
manicdee
How do you feel about GM keeping factories open? Or Boeing?

~~~
lmeyerov
I -- and governments -- are for skeleton crews keeping most factories open to
avoid machine breakdown, and essential businesses at whatever they can do
safely.

Consumer car companies, casinos, and other special interests don't make sense
to me beyond the obvious answer of "knowing corruption" and "institutionalized
malignant ignorance."

~~~
xkjkls
The Alameda county order only allows for construction of replacement parts,
which can be obviously argued is necessary. People need cars to get to work;
people like doctors and nurses and grocery store clerks on the front lines of
this pandemic. A shortage of replacement parts for their cars would only make
it harder for them to fight this.

~~~
manicdee
Anticipate an amendment to the health order to clarify one way or another.

------
KKKKkkkk1
This is consistent with Tesla's safety record both for its own employees [0]
and for its customers [1]. Government is all too happy to allow Elon to keep
testing the boundaries.

[0] [https://www.revealnews.org/article/inside-teslas-factory-
a-m...](https://www.revealnews.org/article/inside-teslas-factory-a-medical-
clinic-designed-to-ignore-injured-workers/)

[1] [https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a31093282/ntsb-
autopilot-t...](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a31093282/ntsb-autopilot-
tesla-crash-ruling/)

------
zomglings
The asymmetry of outcomes here is sickening.

If things work out for Tesla and they don't have a Covid-19 outbreak among
their employees, a small number of people stand to benefit greatly (Elon Musk
especially).

If things go south for Tesla, not only do Tesla employees have to deal with
the fallout, but also their families and their communities.

~~~
heartbeats
It sounds like he's being a shrewd businessman who has discovered cheap
convexity. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

~~~
zomglings
We _may_ have it in our power to change the game around - vilify Musk and show
him that this convexity is just a mirage.

Not sure if that will work.

------
thordenmark
Marin county resident here. The details of the lockdown permit essential
businesses and services. Automobile repair, parts, and services fall under
that category.

~~~
rolltiide
Alameda granted Tesla an exemption

~~~
jandrese
Which smells a bit of "they're essential because they're employing a
significant portion of the population".

~~~
xkjkls
Well how many hours are they even working? Who the hell is buying $50,000 cars
right now?

~~~
GoOnThenDoTell
Maybe not this month, but things will go back to normal and people will want
their $50000 cars

~~~
xkjkls
Things will not be normal for a long time. This is going to be a severe global
recession and thats going to depress auto sales a lot. Also, oil is $24 a
barrel, which makes electric cars at even more a disadvantage.

------
wideasleep1
Interesting that they post an update/correction late in the article, but
retain the misleading title, which was a weasel word anyway. Classy.

------
Funes-
I find that while Musk appears to be more than competent on a number of
things, his opinions and stances on many subjects are, to me, downright dumb.

~~~
sershe
If I'm playing chess with a guy who is known for making good decisions in
(i.e. winning) many chess games, and he makes a move that looks dumb, the
prudent conclusion is not that the move is dumb, is that I'm dumb and I need
to figure out what the motivation was.

~~~
Funes-
Very flawed analogy. You're talking about qualitatively-different decisions
_in the same "game"_. I wasn't, since I was critizising him based on his
decisions regarding public health (handling covid-19, to be precise); I
explicitly acknowledged his seemingly outstanding competence with regards to
other matters (what you would refer to as "chess" in your analogy).

If he made a decision that appears to be wrong or stupid regarding Tesla cars
or SpaceX, I'd be more cautious to call him out. But my comment wasn't even
close to be about that. I hope you can understand what I'm saying here.

~~~
sershe
I don't think it is, though. You can subdivide life infinitely and claim
different domains and how one can be smart in soda business but dumb in candy
business, but I don't think that's justified. He made a decision about how a
factory should operate given the environment; I think, as his many other
decisions about business before, this one is solid.

~~~
Funes-
Alright, Elon.

------
thrill
Already under discussion at
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22606140](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22606140)

------
scurvy
I'm not excusing Musk's decsion, but I will say that lots of places are
ignoring the shelter in place request. Residential construction workers are
still putting up drywall, laying tiles, etc. Parts of the city have the usual
number of people on the street you'd expect on a weekday. Tourists are walking
around. High end coffee shops are still selling $6 lattes.

I went to the doctor and the pharmacist and was surprised at the amount of
people milling about. Definitely no 6 feet of social distancing either.

While the public works construction crews are exempt from this, maybe they can
fix Van Ness while everyone's cooped up?

~~~
cjhopman
> I'm not excusing Musk's decsion, lots of places are ignoring the shelter in
> place request

Wow, really? Let's take a look at your examples.

> Residential construction workers are still putting up drywall, laying tiles,
> etc.

Residential construction is exempted.

> High end coffee shops are still selling $6 lattes.

coffee shops are exempted for take-out and delivery.

> the doctor and the pharmacist and was surprised at the amount of people
> milling about

Doctor's offices and pharmacists are exempted.

~~~
scurvy
> coffee shops are exempted for take-out and delivery. > Residential
> construction is exempted.

That's some very essential services there. My point is that the number of
exclusions make this policy a joke. It's not a serious effort. It's half-arsed
at best. It's not going to work.

> Doctor's offices and pharmacists are exempted.

I know, that's why I went.

~~~
cjhopman
> My point is that the number of exclusions make this policy a joke

Bullshit. You are changing your stance once it was called out as wrong.

These were your examples for "I will say that lots of places are ignoring the
shelter in place request". Doing things that are exempted from the request
isn't ignoring it.

~~~
scurvy
Wrong, and let's try to keep things civil. You clearly missed the point and
are dying on a hill not worth it.

I'm not alone in my disgust about people's activity during the lockdown:
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/03/18/coronavirus...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/03/18/coronavirus-
cnn-sanjay-gupta/)

------
aatharuv
The new apartment complex near the (old) Fremont BART station still had people
actively working at it this morning. It doesn't seem to be on the essential
list from what I saw from the official Alameda County order.

~~~
tzs
That sounds like it would be covered under item 10d:

> For purposes of this Order, individuals may leave their residence to provide
> any services or perform any work necessary to the operations and maintenance
> of “Essential Infrastructure,” including,but not limited to, public works
> construction, construction of housing (in particular affordable housing or
> housing for individuals experiencing homelessness), airport operations,
> water, sewer, gas, electrical, oil refining, roads and highways, public
> transportation, solid waste collection and removal, internet, and
> telecommunications systems(including the provision of essential global,
> national, and local infrastructure for computing services, business
> infrastructure, communications, and web-based services), provided that they
> carry out those services or that work in compliance with Social Distancing
> Requirements as defined this Section, to the extent possible.

Source: [http://acphd.org/media/559658/health-officer-order-
shelter-i...](http://acphd.org/media/559658/health-officer-order-shelter-in-
place-20200316.pdf)

------
njarboe
Here is the actual shutdown order for Alameda county where the Tesla factory
is located[1].

[1][http://acphd.org/media/559658/health-officer-order-
shelter-i...](http://acphd.org/media/559658/health-officer-order-shelter-in-
place-20200316.pdf)

~~~
kyuudou
Who's the sheriff? Up to them, ultimately.

------
xkjkls
[https://twitter.com/ACSOSheriffs/status/1240062681635123201](https://twitter.com/ACSOSheriffs/status/1240062681635123201)

Apparently under county order they cannot make any new vehicles, only
replacement parts.

------
devy
Unless Fremont factory is 100% automated with robots, this sounds reckless.
However, the Gigafactory 3 in Shanghai has been reopened and working in full
speed (except when it's bottlenecked by upstream suppliers)

------
bitxbit
I used to support Tesla but can’t help but think recent successes (including
the astronomical rise in stock price) got to Elon Musk. I hate to say it but
they’re 2-3 quarters away from possibly filing if the virus continues at
current pace in US and EU.

------
DeonPenny
Send home all the elderly people and anyone with a preexisting condition. Most
people will get sick anyone. Vaccines take a least a year to make. Elon is
openly saying people are overreacting

~~~
mandeepj
Couple of trials are already underway for Covid-19. So, it may not take a year

~~~
xkjkls
Stage 1. That's the easiest stage to get approval for, and many of these
trials might not go into Stage 2 or Stage 3. Drug trials take a long time to
figure out all of the possible side effects.

------
kgc
I believe the factory workers are hourly. He should just shut it down for two
weeks. Not a huge cost.

------
zyang
Is anyone surprised? Elon is notorious for burning through people to achieve
his vision.

------
insiderinsider
Even Apple Employees are attending work

------
drenginian
Because money.

------
predictmktegirl
Part of me wants to say, "oh we've overreacted a bit, we should keep working
while observing safety precautions like distancing and hygiene." The other
part of me is doomsayer permabear saying that even giving humans the chance to
mess something up will result in catastrophic failure. At the end of the day,
I certainly wouldn't want to be the one responsible for killing someone's
mother or father.

------
ginsing
And what exactly the problem with that? We have a biggest hysteria of the
latest 10 years. Thanks for the social media and news. And now our economy is
basically on free fall, thanks for that. I would like at the end of hysteria
to make some analysis: How many millions of dollars we just spend on each
death case.

