

Woman Gives Her Autistic 9-Year-Old Marijuana - pw0ncakes
http://www.slate.com/id/2251174/

======
kaiuhl
My brother was diagnosed with Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma a years back and was
incredibly ill for most of his chemotherapy. Doctors shuffled anti-nausea
medications regularly looking for something that could keep him out of the
bathroom after each therapy, but the only relief he found was marijuana.

Eventually, he got into a trial of Marinol, synthetic cannabinoids that
entirely cured him of the effects of chemotherapy. And, it made him feel nice.

The more these stories like this one in Slate are told, the sooner the rest of
the country will adopt medical marijuana officially and people like my brother
and this autistic kid stop suffering.

~~~
seiji
I used to be anti-illegal drugs until someone I knew went through cancer:
<http://overcode.yak.net/3>

Marijuana gets a glowing review starting in the middle of the entries.

------
tokenadult
This is an interesting set of anecdotes. In the interest of considering
whether anecdotes support medical interventions,

<http://norvig.com/experiment-design.html>

I thought I should post a link to a discussion of the natural course of autism

<http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908>

over the childhood of most autism patients, as that suggests why it will be
important to do placebo-controlled, double-blind studies of any medical
intervention proposed for autism. See

<http://www.skepticstoolbox.org/hall/>

for a detailed discussion by a science-oriented medical doctor on why
variations in disease severity can confuse anecdotal accounts of what
treatments work for what diseases.

I feel for the parents who have children with autistic behaviors, so I hope
they get the benefit of sound science as they seek help for their children.

~~~
Alex3917
"it will be important to do placebo-controlled, double-blind studies of any
medical intervention proposed for autism."

The author isn't proposing giving marijuana to all childhood autistics. She's
just saying that it helps her son.

Besides, doing placebo-controlled, double-blind studies on whether marijuana
is an effective medicine is like doing placebo-controlled, double-blind
studies to figure out which is the best girlfriend. There are dozens of
strains to choose from, and there's no reason to believe that a strain which
is good for one person would be good for someone else, or even the best strain
today would be ideal for tomorrow.

~~~
tokenadult
But, Alex, while I believe that no mother would actively harm her own child,
the mother in question is not medically trained, and she has NO IDEA whether
or not the long-term effects of marijuana are better for her child than the
long-term effects of

a) doing nothing at all for his autism,

b) doing whatever is current standard practice for treating autism,

or

c) doing something that is bizarre and zany for autism.

She sees some behaviors change for the better, behaviors that might have
changed for the better on their own. She has no way to sample the tissue of
her child's brain to know what is happening to his brain. On the basis of her
self-report, she doesn't appear to be doing him active short-term harm, but as
a parent I try to validate what I do for my children with the observations of
many other observers. She would be able to help her child with more likelihood
of success if placebo-controlled, double-blind studies compare all the
possible treatment approaches out there.

~~~
Alex3917
OK, on those grounds I agree that well-designed, long-term studies would be
useful.

------
eplanit
One eyebrow went up at "...he made the heretofore unthinkable suggestion that
I finally focus on my novel. I actually felt OK taking him up on the offer and
spent a few weeks at the artists' colony Yaddo".

The other eyebrow went up, and the jaw dropped open, at "Salvation came in
late October when Organic Guy managed to score some White Russian...Within two
weeks, the number of times J was marked for behaving aggressively at school
dropped back to the single digits, even zero on some days. This was all the
scientific evidence we needed."

I'm very, very much in favor of medical cannabis. I don't doubt she saw some
positive results...but her home sounds like it might itself be a bit
'dramatic' if not in fact 'volatile'. To say her story is even anecdotal
evidence is a stretch -- in no way is it scientific.

Let's be scientific about coming to scientific conclusions, is what I'm
suggesting. I'd love to see a valid, scientific study done on this topic, for
I believe we would find benefit in cannabis. Stories like these, though well-
intended, make it all seem like more of a Moonshine and Snake Oil movement.

~~~
mooneater
Are you saying that, writers and artists are not to be trusted?

Regarding "all the scientific evidence we needed", do you not think the bar
should be a bit different for research papers, than for parenting a single
child?

------
sp332
This is "Part III", here's the HN discussion on Part II:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=864979>

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lukifer
At a high level of abstraction, marijuana seems to make sense to treat autism.
The various flavors of autism involve difficulty seeing patterns, and THC
makes pattern detection fire more often. While frequent marijuana use can take
the brain too far in the other direction (seeing patterns which aren't there,
synesthesia, etc.), it seems like there might be promise, though certainly not
without side effects.

The only way to be sure is further research, and it's unfortunate that the
political and social stigma make it so taboo.

~~~
TeHCrAzY
I didn't know that THC could induce synesthesia. I thought effects such as
that were reserved for the "stronger" chemicals, like LSD.

~~~
lukifer
It usually doesn't, and if it does, it's much milder than with hallucinogens.

------
fjabre
We'd have more research if it was legal to begin with.. Kind of sad that
people are put in this position b/c of the taboo surrounding marijuana.

Given all the usual side effects, including death, caused by legal drugs you'd
think this was a miracle drug by comparison.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrocannabinol>

------
petercooper
We have a lot of "interesting" chemicals and plants available to us that can
help resolve or reduce medical problems, and it's great that she lives in a
country with a progressive medical system that can get those things into the
hands of people who could benefit.

There are a lot of people who think the US has gone to pot (pun totally
intended) in many ways but there are very few countries progressive enough to
take similar steps (even in the UK, medicinal marijuana hasn't spread,
legally, beyond trials).

~~~
roc
Progressive? The US doesn't allow medical trials on marijuana. It doesn't
allow research on marijuana.

This woman is a statistical outlier -- a person in one of a tiny handful of US
states where it's even possible under state law to have it prescribed, and
with a doctor who may well be putting his career on the line by prescribing
marijuana. (Actual prescription is illegal under Federal law. They can
"recommend", but I'm not sure if merely "recommended" pot is kosher with
particular State laws)

Legally, the feds could walk into her house at any time, confiscate much of
her property, jail her and her husband and send the child to child services.

It's great that some States are willing to press this issue, but the nation as
a whole deserves no such credit and nothing but scorn.

The Federal government is the very reason that this mother is doing bad
science personally to try and find out what works, rather than having trained
experts doing it faster, more accurately and for the benefit of the nation.

~~~
tokenadult
_The US doesn't allow medical trials on marijuana. It doesn't allow research
on marijuana._

Since I have found a contrary statement, in a publication that I would expect
to tell me the truth on this issue,

<http://hightimes.com/news/ht_admin/295>

"DEA OKs MEDICAL-MARIJUANA TRIALS

"Tue, Jun 11, 2002 12:00 am

"Peter Gorman WASHINGTON After nearly 20 years of refusing to approve a single
medical-marijuana human research trial, the Drug Enforcement Administration
has simultaneously approved three individual trials. All three patient trials
will involve the use of smoked marijuana, and be conducted at the University
of California's Center for Medicinal Cannabis Research (CMCR), at its San
Diego and San Francisco campuses. The marijuana used will be supplied by the
National Institute on Drug Abuse's (NIDA) federally approved Hattiesburg,
Mississippi pot farm."

I would expect you to back up that statement if you want us to believe it.

I see from the expected Google Scholar search

<http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=marijuana> trials

that marijuana clinical trials are going on somewhere, so if there is
demonstrable medical benefit from taking marijuana that is not available from
some other drug, the scientific community will eventually hear about it.

~~~
r0s
It's completely at the whim of the DEA, that's not legal permission it's
selective enforcement. Any minute political shift could land the researchers
in jail, all their assets personal or otherwise seized until trial.

This non action is the opposite of leadership, and the Department of Justice
taking a slightly less conservative stance on the issue isn't progress.

~~~
r0s
Testing line feeds/n Line feeds!<br>

wtf line feeds

as;ldjfsa;jf

------
ars
I'm not really in favor of legalizing marijuana, but I would like to see it
moved from a schedule I drug to a schedule II drug. This would allow medical
use and research.

For comparison cocaine is a schedule II drug because dentists use it.

~~~
chbarts
> For comparison cocaine is a schedule II drug because dentists use it.

That would explain all the kleenexes.

------
noisedom
Reading this just reminds me of Temple Grandin lecturing on her experience
with autism and treating autism. There are so many behavioral treatment
options in addition to prescribed medicine that can help autistic children.

Video Here: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wt1IY3ffoU#t=5m20s>

I'm not on the mother's side with this one. Try the treatments that have
worked for others before you throw weed at the problem.

------
cellurl
wonderfully written.

------
metamemetics
Happy 420 HN.

------
neurotech1
"Medical" Marijuana has side effects obviously. So does risperdal, a strong
anti-psychotic, which is the approved for anger & outbursts in autistic
children.

Note: I have never tried Marijuana and nor do I intend to. Most people I know
who do use Marijuana are the type of people aren't going far with their
careers.

