
Canada to bar entry to non-residents (except US) - munk-a
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cbsa-border-airports-screening-trudeau-covid19-coronavirus-1.5498866
======
burke
Additionally, it didn't take a lot of reading-between-the-lines to infer that
they're planning to close the border to Americans in the next few days as
well. NAFTA must be an impediment here.

~~~
jedberg
There is also the issue of NEXUS card holders. Many of them work in one
country and live in the other, or have other reasons to cross the border
daily.

Or it could be the fact that it is a huge mostly unprotected border.

Sure you can stop people at the main highways, but there are a ton of lakes
where you can just row across to Canada.

~~~
eigenvector
The issue is not sealing off the border entirely, but trying to reduce non-
essential travel while keeping supply chains and essential commuter workers
flowing. A person who's no longer able to make their weekly milk run to
Bellingham, WA from Surrey, BC isn't going to try hiking across the border,
but it'd be best if they could be persuaded to stop travel voluntarily without
incurring the costs to essential traffic that come from closing border
crossings.

~~~
blaser-waffle
+1

This isn't a police action to prevent dirty immigrants from getting across the
border, it's a quarantine measure.

99% of those travelers aren't going to row across a lake to get into Canada;
if they are chances are they're doing something sketchy and would have been
rowing across lakes anyway regardless of the enforcement regime.

More importantly disease transmission is one of herds and numbers -- a tiny
handful getting across isn't a huge deal, it's the influx coming through ports
and via plane.

------
martythemaniak
The problem with closing the US border is that it can't be a simple blanket
ban - a very large amount of our food and other supplies comes from there.
Closing that border must be a much more complex situation and needs more
resources and planning.

~~~
mthoms
I think you hit the mark. The government will need to allow American truckers,
air freight and rail crews to cross no matter what.

~~~
anonymfus
Why not change rail/truck crews/drivers at the border or stations closest to
the border?

~~~
HashBasher
Imagine the complexity of that. Mind boggling.

~~~
ttul
Yeah, the risk-to-reward ratio for that would be ... high.

------
wolco
Reading between the lines I get the feeling we can't close the border and
we're all in it together. There are towns where the border runs through the
middle of town. Indian tribes that run through both. It would be extremely
difficult to close the entire border.

~~~
reaperducer
There's a school district in Washington where the children have to take a bus
through Canada to get to school.

That is, if Washington State schools are still open.

Still, there are a number of U.S. towns that can only be accessed through
Canada.

Also, my relatives in Minnesota say that most of the retail sales in their
town is Canadians who don't have anywhere else to shop.

~~~
danudey
> There's a school district in Washington where the children have to take a
> bus through Canada to get to school.

In case anyone is curious, they're referring to Point Roberts, a town whose
primary economic drivers are, as far as I've been able to tell, Canadians
coming down to pick up packages to avoid cross-border shipping, and providing
gas and restaurant meals to those same Canadians.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Roberts,_Washington](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Roberts,_Washington)

------
ajlburke
It should be noted that anybody coming into Canada now from a foreign country,
no matter their citizenship, is being told to self-quarantine for 14 days.

This isn't mandatory or enforced (yet) but it's not exactly a red carpet for
folks to come visit for tourism or business meetings.

------
sefrost
This is heart breaking for me! I am a Brit planning to come to Canada on an
IEC visa which expires at the end of June. I'm writing to the IRCC begging for
an extension to my entry date.

~~~
pletsch
I can't imagine Canada not being lenient in this situation, we tend to have
quite good relations with all commonwealth countries

~~~
digianarchist
As a British citizen and now also a Canadian citizen I can confirm that we
don't get any special treatment and rightly so.

~~~
cachvico
We do with driving licences, at least in Quebec. We don't have to pass a test
to get a licence here _smh_.

------
math0ne
This is a crazy decision on a day when most of our cases came from the US.

~~~
drpgq
Most of them seem to be Canadians returning to Canada, not American tourists.

~~~
math0ne
Yeah I guess that is prob true.

------
thbr99
Stressful times for temporary skilled foreign workers in Canada &
international students on study permits.

Foreign worker visa extension delays and loss of work visa status will happen.
Also those who applied for permanent residency while working in Canada are
going to see long wait times.

Chrystia Freeland diplomatically dodged questions concerning the work permit
holders & international students in Canada when asked by a reporter.

------
reaperducer
So... Meghan Markle can go back to Vancouver Island to be with her child, but
Prince Harry is trapped in the UK?

~~~
gpm
It seems unlikely that a member of the Canadian royal family [0] and Canadian
military is going to be blocked from returning to Canada if he isn't showing
symptoms.

[0] Technically a distinct entity from the British royal family, it "just
happens" to currently contain the same members and have similar (but not the
same) succession rules.

~~~
reaperducer
I never thought of the notion of "Canadian royal family" before. I guess that
makes more sense.

It also gives me this silly vision of Harry at the YVR immigration counter
holding up a $20 note and saying, "Because my grandma says so."

~~~
smnrchrds
He doesn't have to, he can just point to the official Government of Canada
webpage describing Canadian Royal Family:

Canadian Royal Family:

[https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/royal-
fa...](https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/royal-family.html)

His Royal Highness The Duke of Sussex, Prince Harry:

[https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/royal-
fa...](https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/royal-
family/members-royal-family/prince-harry.html)

Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Sussex, Rachel Meghan Markle:

[https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/royal-
fa...](https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/royal-
family/members-royal-family/duchess-sussex.html)

But in all seriousness, immigration is a separate issue. Being a member of the
royal family, unless your are the Queen herself, does not guarantee you any
rights in Canada, including right of entry.

------
beloch
Closing the border to the U.S. and leaving it open to all other countries
would probably have a larger impact on controlling the spread of coronavirus,
simply because of the relative volume of traffic between Canada and the U.S.
vs the rest of the world.

------
TheMerovingian
The US is our biggest trading partner. If they are also barred from entering
the country, it would effectively grind the economy to a crawl.

~~~
burke
Tourism, certainly, but that's already in the toilet regardless of who our
border is open to. Even for overseas countries, we imposed no restrictions on
trade or commerce, only visitors. I doubt this accounts for a non-trivial
fraction of our economy, especially with public spaces already shutting down.

~~~
smnrchrds
It doesn't look like it is just visitors. People with Study and Work Permits
seem to be affected as well.

~~~
burke
Sure, and perhaps a solution for America would include work and study permits
alongside permanent residence in the category of exceptions.

------
xutopia
Too little too late. It's what will happen internally that will matter most.

~~~
aguyfromnb
> _Too little too late._

I agree. Our government didn't take any apparent action up to this point,
except express platitudes of "business as usual".

Why not overreact early and buy some time to get sorted? How do people whose
jobs it is to deal with these things go from, "we're fine" to "close
everything down" in a matter of days? We've had months to get ready for this.

~~~
mardifoufs
It depends on the province. Quebec is almost completely on lock down at this
point. I think the decentralized approach is better in this case since it
allows for much more agility and a localized approach. The provincial
government here is communicating extremely well with the population and
answers really well to most concerns from the population. To give an example
they opened today daycares for the children of healthcare workers to avoid any
disruption due to all schools shutting down. Which is an excellent comprise
that I don't the federal government being able to set in place so quickly and
so widely across the whole country

------
avip
There goes my plan to flee to Canada once things go south.

~~~
TravHatesMe
What makes you think that things are so much better in Canada? There are so
many problems here.. the grass is always greener.

~~~
gpm
Because we have functional universal healthcare, safety nets that let people
stop working when ill, etc.

I've lived in both, I am very happy I am in Canada instead of the US right
now.

~~~
reaperducer
_Because we have functional universal healthcare_

You'll have to define "functional" for me, as someone who frequently hears
advertisements on Palm Springs radio stations for hospitals offering to
perform medical services on snowbird Canadians that they can't get done at
home.

~~~
gpm
Uh, does "I can get whatever care I need, whenever I need it, for free" work
for you?

Apart from purely elective plastic surgery (which isn't free, or needed) I
really can't think of any services that could be being advertised. Maybe your
hearing advertisements for medical care that doesn't involve returning to
Canada instead of medical care not available in Canada?

~~~
reaperducer
You may want to stop waving that "Whatever care I need, whenever I need it"
flag.

The average wait time from a GP's referral to seeing a specialist in Canada
was 8.7 weeks in 2018. Meanwhile, this USA-an doesn't need a referral to see a
specialist. I can just pick up the phone and make an appointment.

"Specialist physicians surveyed report a median waiting time of 19.8 weeks
between referral from a general practitioner and receipt of treatment"

That goes up to almost a year (45.1 weeks) to wait in New Brunswick for
treatment.

Source: [https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/waiting-your-turn-
wa...](https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/waiting-your-turn-wait-times-
for-health-care-in-canada-2018)

~~~
gpm
I don't know where they are getting their numbers, but the one I can easily
fact check for you are flat out wrong, and the other ones all strike me as
very suspicious.

> Canadians could expect to wait 4.3 weeks for a computed tomography (CT)
> scan, 10.6 weeks for a magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) scan, and 3.9 weeks
> for an ultrasound.

I've had multiple ultrasounds (outside of a hospital, no urgency) the waiting
time is literally 0. I walk in to the imaging clinic and hand them the piece
of paper the GP gave me 10 minutes ago and get one.

I've had a CT scan (in a hospital, medium urgency), the waiting time was "a
few hours".

I've never needed a MRI, the only person I know who did need one (very
urgently) got it within hours.

The waiting time for specialists does not strike me as believable, but given
that there is variation across the different fields I can't authoritatively
say they are wrong. For context, I just needed to see both a dermatologist and
a urologist (nothing serious, no medical related urgency), the waiting time
was roughly 2 weeks and 3 weeks respectively.

~~~
paulmd
US wait times aren't ideal either. I scheduled a dermatology appointment
(suspicious mole, so this is a necessary treatment, not getting my acne
treated) and my wait time is three months for the appointment. My dad was
telling me his derma usually schedules a year out, they set up next year's
appointment while he's in the office.

------
swarnie_
Surely the US is the last place you want to accept people from (from a health
point of view)

~~~
swebs
Not even in the top 5

[https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.h...](https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6)

~~~
swarnie_
They have the worst and least accessible healthcare system in the western
world.

The only reason those numbers aren't higher is because they're testing less
people per population then Vietnam.

~~~
swebs
You can complain about the insurance system, but the quality of care is among
the best in the world.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_quality_o...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_quality_of_healthcare)

Nobody is denied care if their life is in danger, and those below the poverty
line qualify for free healthcare through Medicaid.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid)

~~~
JimTheMan
Surely people then resist going to the hospital when they need to because its
going to financially cripple them?

Like if you are rich enough to not qualify for medicaid, but not rich enough
to have good insurance?

"So I have a deep cough and a bad fever but I will just ride this out. I'll be
fine".. And that's exactly how the Corona virus manifests, like a bad cold
that just keeps getting worse.

------
tmh79
Interesting question: Do you think the Canadian government has the power to
deny entry of US citizens into Canada? I don't think they'd be able to do it.

[edit] I think any Candian government who actually did it would see an
economic shock and loss of legitimacy so large that none of them would risk
it.

~~~
def8cefe
Why do you think that? The Canadian government absolutely could and already
does on a selective basis daily.

~~~
tmh79
I mean, they definitely could in a legal sense, but then the reaction from the
US would likely be extreme and putative, it would likely cause a huge shock to
the Canadian economy, and it would risk a sharp decline in the legitimacy of
the canadian government.

~~~
preinheimer
Speaking as a Canadian: the current US government being angry at us would only
increase the legitimacy of our government in my eyes.

~~~
RandallBrown
The decline in legitimacy would come from the devastating effects of shutting
down trade with Canada.

~~~
munk-a
To clarify - shutting down trade isn't on the table right now - all trade
lines will be kept open for the immediate future.

This announcement was solely about persons moving for non-logistical reasons.

