
Your Product is Going to Fail if you Don’t Ask Users to Pay - davidspinks
http://whatspinksthinks.com/2013/11/18/your-product-is-bullshit-and-youre-going-to-fail-if-you-dont-ask-users-to-pay/
======
selmnoo
> If you EVER plan on charging for your product you have to ask for money NOW

There are actually a lot of good reasons to wait before you start charging.
Like, getting situated, getting everything working, working out the kinks,
evaluating possible monetization models, etc. etc.

> The second one usually refers to media companies and massive networks like
> Twitter, Facebook, Instagram etc. If you’re the next Twitter, Techcrunch,
> Facebook or Instagram then kudos. For the other 99.99999% of you who fall in
> the first group with the rest of us, if you haven’t asked your users to pay
> yet, then your startup is completely bullshit until you do.

Uhh, no. A lot of companies can work on this model. And do so. The examples
are numerous.

And, what is it with this condescending style of writing? If the content of
the article wasn't full of reductive, hand-wavy half-baked ideas, the
arrogance in that entire piece would be forgivable. But that's not the
situation it looks like.

~~~
davidspinks
"Like, getting situated, getting everything working, working out the kinks,
evaluating possible monetization models, etc. etc."

What does getting situated mean? Working out what kinks? People aren't paying
for your product they're paying for what they believe your product to be.
Kinks don't matter.

"Uhh, no. A lot of companies can work on this model. And do so. The examples
are numerous."

Lets hear them.

"And, what is it with this condescending style of writing? If the content of
the article wasn't full of reductive, hand-wavy half-baked ideas, the
arrogance in that entire piece would be forgivable. But that's not the
situation it looks like."

Sounds a lot like your feedback.

~~~
st0neage
I think what you're missing is that there are very different kinds of startup.
There is the high stakes "next facebook or bust" kind, where it makes a lot of
sense to first grow a userbase, get a lot of investors to pay you and take it
from there. And then there's the "we are starting a business" kind of startup
you seem to be talking about. And a lot in between.

~~~
davidspinks
Any examples?

~~~
st0neage
I don't think examples are needed here, since this is just common sense. Also
if you could reply to the actual content of my post, that would be great.

~~~
davidspinks
I'm trying to respond to the content of your post. If it's such common sense
then it should be easy to come up with examples. I'd argue that there isn't
much in between. Either you're building a company that has to sell a product
or you're building a high growth monetize later company. This post is
addressing the former option.

~~~
st0neage
For the high stakes kind youtube or twitter are good examples. For the
business kind every old little business around the corner is an example. Why
do I need to spell this out to you? For in between - can't really be bothered
to research this, so I'll just give you that.

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pearjuice
I have a hard time taking provocative titles and harshly written articles like
these serious. Especially when the author has no _real, credible_ experience
building sustainable businesses.

~~~
davidspinks
So you disagree with what the post is saying?

~~~
freehunter
I think you may be a little _too_ active in your own post's discussion. You
don't need to reply to every comment, especially if all you're going to do is
argue and shut down any critical debate.

~~~
davidspinks
How am I shutting down debates? I think it's important to respond to anyone
who has a unique perspective.

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mvkel
It's very naive and silly to make blanket statements like this.

Charging immediately just because you're "supposed to" is just as bad a
strategy as not charging because you're "supposed to."

Some business models are "get as many users as possible, get acquired, and
live as a loss leader for a larger organization" and that's perfectly fine.

~~~
davidspinks
"Some business models are "get as many users as possible, get acquired, and
live as a loss leader for a larger organization" and that's perfectly fine."

I agree, and address that in the article.

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vernie
Is there a Marketer News for these posts?

~~~
chc
Starting and growing businesses is very much within the scope of Hacker News.

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basicallydan
I see what you're getting at, but your language may have been a little bit too
hard-hitting.

Shall we at least agree on the idea that "maybe some products should not be
free and the creators should consider paying for them"?

~~~
davidspinks
"maybe some products should not be free and the creators should consider
paying for them"?

Not sure what you mean by the creators should consider paying for them.

~~~
basicallydan
Hah, typo! I meant, "charging" not "paying".

