
The Sultan and the Sultan - lermontov
http://www.historytoday.com/william-armstrong/sultan-and-sultan
======
malkia
There is a a new turkish TV show rolling on Netflix -
[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4320258/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4320258/)
\-
[https://www.netflix.com/title/80127001](https://www.netflix.com/title/80127001)

It's called Dirilis: Ertugrul (Resurrection: Ertugrul) which is about the
father of the Osman, the founder of the Ottoman empire. I'm watching it,
ignoring all the overly muslim overtones, praise to God (Allah), songs, etc.
It has some good moments, but AFAIK it's based on very little historic facts.
But it's no coincidence that the TV show comes at the time Erdogan is the
"ruler". The knight templars are showed as very incapable fighters, the Kiya
tribe as universally good (with very few bad apples), but apart from that is
watchable (was binging on it, while waiting for my wife to catch up on
Stranger Things I, so we can watch together II).

But I'm also watching it, just to see how things are portrayed from this side,
since I've been told stories completely the other way (I'm bulgarian, so our
history, myths & legends are all about ottoman repression, which was even
called slavery while I was growing up, but recently the schoolbooks are
changing that).

Then few days ago, someone mentioned that this show is in contrast how Islam
was portrayed with another Turkish show released just few years before it,
(also available on Netflix-
[https://www.netflix.com/title/80089596](https://www.netflix.com/title/80089596)
\- that's supposed to tell another story, but I guess without Erdogan's
propaganda).

I still can't bear, the fact how his bodyguards beat so many people just
recently, and nothing really happened after that... Here in the US.

~~~
yawz
My ancestors fled Bulgarian persecution during the Balkan wars that the
article talks about. I've always wanted to visit Haskova (Hasköy at the time)
where they were from. Hopefully one day.

Thanks for the Netflix links. I'll check them out.

Regarding the bodyguards incident, I think some of them faced charges.
Incredible that this could happen even on US soil!

~~~
malkia
With my ancestors it was the opposite. The story, or legend goes, that my
family on my grandmother's side were bulgarians (okay not sure, but that's
what they claimed) living in Turkey, and they moved to Bulgaria (in the
"Strandzha" area) - because one of my grand-grand uncles killed a turkmen who
was extorting him every year to give his "yamurluk" (you might know what it
is). So he killed him, and they had to escape...

Here is another article which I'm not proud about which Bulgaria did in the
last year of the communist regime against the turkish minorities -
[http://www.dw.com/en/recalling-the-fate-of-bulgarias-
turkish...](http://www.dw.com/en/recalling-the-fate-of-bulgarias-turkish-
minority/a-18149416)

and then you have this -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batak_massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batak_massacre)

It's important to remember these, but not get too politicizied, in a
"propaganda" style (as we used to learn it this way in school). I would like
more open, here is what we did, here is what was done to us - here is what we
should not do, avoid, etc.

My mom & father are claiming Turkey is one of the most friendly countries
(they are living in Burgas, Bulgaria), and my mom specifically loves Kapalu
Charshi (I'm not prononuncing this correctly - but The Grand Bazar).

Cheers!

------
eternalban
> The parallels with Turkey’s mercurial president Erdoğan seem obvious.

The invariant remains the desire of the West to insure the Turks are down, and
that the region is destablized. The three historic reasons (for the West)
remain: Russia, Oil, and Asia trade routes. Given these invariants and
historic realities of the region, any sensible wanna-be region native unifier
will aim for the same "itihad" (Unity) "-i" (of) Muslims. Is this rocket
science? No, it is not.

So to correct the typically myopic view of the region per European (cum West)
regarding Turkey, since Western goals and designs for the region have NOT
changed in the past 150+ years, so to the reaction from the region's
(semi-)indepdentent regimes and/or rulers.

(You may have a clue per above, regarding the very ambitious gambit of the
crown prince of the Arabian peninsula minus the "semi-independent" part.)

> cult of personality

Is that like the cult of personality of the Donald the MAGA? Or before that,
the Obama the savior?

Why is it that Western press _always_ needs to include a "tyrant",
"mercurial", "<insert put down here>" when mentioning the target regions'
leaders? Are Western leaders men and women of worth? (Insert chuckle here.)

> the Sultan's nose

It is called 'prestige'. Every state has prestige sensitivities since that is
one pillar of maintaining power.

For example, a "foreign agent" news agency, RT, has been pointing out the
symbolic 'big nose of the Western governments', and oh boy, they are not
amused in the West. See, it is all very "parallel" to what goes on elsewhere.

Nothing to see here, really, except Oil, strategic geography, and containing
the maybe-maybenot-European power called Russia.

~~~
woodandsteel
>The invariant remains the desire of the West to insure the Turks are down,
and that the region is destablized.

That's ridiculous. The West wants to keep the Middle East stable, so that oil
flows are guaranteed, to keep the Russians out, and because a chaotic Middle
East breeds Islamic terrorists. And so it has taken policies for many decades
to ensure this, including supporting Turkey.

However, you are quite right that the West doesn't want a new Ottoman empire
that would try to take over Europe, like the old one did.

