
Soylent now accepting Bitcoin for preorders - ajaymehta
http://blog.soylent.me/post/57550580385/just-as-soylent-is-disrupting-the-traditional-food
======
jgrahamc
_Just as Soylent is disrupting the traditional food industry_

Huh?

I've asked this before and never got an answer. How is Soylent different from
Ensure Complete? Is it cheaper? Better made? Easier to order? Tastes better?
Better for me? Higher quality?

Because if it isn't really any different then what Soylent will need to do is
market better than those other companies. Because I'd definitely trust Abbott
with my health over random start up with indistinguishable product.

You see I'm actually interested in things like this as a 'meal replacement'. I
quite often drink chocolate milk instead of eating lunch and I can buy
nutritionally complete things like Ensure Complete. So, what makes Soylent
special?

~~~
tlb
Do you believe generally that Big Food makes healthier products than
independents? I believe the reverse is usually true in the US.

You can trust Big Food to pump their products full of sugar because testing
shows it makes consumers buy more. Sugar is second on Ensure's ingredient list
([http://ensure.com/products/ensure-complete-
shakes](http://ensure.com/products/ensure-complete-shakes)) while Soylent is
not sweet.

~~~
mbreese
I trust Abbott far more than some random startup with zero experience in long-
term production of food supplements and replacements.

I'm sorry, but living off of a concoction for a few months and then claiming
that it is better for you than X is crazy.

Look, Soylent _may_ not kill you. It might actually be good for you. But until
there have been multiple, years-long studies, this just isn't going to fly.
Hell, get some actual nutritionists (PhDs) and doctors (MDs) on board and
_maybe_ you have a shot at convincing people.

Say what you want about Abbott, but they produce baby-formula. Baby-formula
that has been around for decades, so they have a pretty good idea of what
works and what doesn't.

~~~
cLeEOGPw
I'm willing to take the risk and test it for a conservatives like you.

~~~
DanBC
But that's useless unless it's a large, controlled, randomised, double blind,
trial.

So far we have people selling stuff telling us "it's okay".

I'd be really interested to see what the FDA has to say about Soylent. Have
any of the Soylent team got legal advice?

~~~
vidarh
It's not useless. It will shake out any number of "obvious" problems.

It is just not _sufficient_ to deem the product generally safe as a food
substitute for everyone and/or for prolonged use.

------
sequoia
... electrical engineering, computer science and entrepreneurship ...
Industrial and Systems engineering. He has worked in finance, procurement, and
logistics ...sales, finance, and marketing.... early stage technology
companies ... Big Data ... operations and sales ... drives the sales channels
... sales engineer in the desktop video conferencing market ...

...and that's it. So I'm supposed to upend the foundations of my health & body
based on the... "research" of a bunch of 20 something electrical engineers &
marketers? I don't want my body to be "disrupted", I don't wish for my health
to "fail fast." This is not a photosharing app you're building.

I find it profoundly bizarre and irresponsible that these people are
recommending a total dietary replacement and they don't have _single
nutritionist_ or even _anyone with a medical background_ on staff. Soylent
team: you are MARKETERS, not nutritionists! Go disrupt something that either
a) has fewer potential disastrous consequences or b) you actually know
something about.

on the other hand USian diets in many quarters are so bad that this stuff
can't be much worse. :) But seriously, even for the veneer of legitimacy,
_hire a nutritionist!_ The lack of one makes me think you couldn't find one
who would touch the project with a 10 foot pole.

~~~
cLeEOGPw
Marketers have used the fake "experts" card so extensively, that it diminished
the value of the opinion of the expert to near zero. He chooses fundamentally
pure approach of giving the actual details of the product to you to judge. The
information is there, read it, analyze the books used by the medics and
nutritionists and judge by yourself. If you feel the need of an opinion of an
expert, you are willingly trusting any potential scamer with the
"nutritionist" or "doctor" title. Those experts are not some all-knowing gods
that can single-handedly approve as safe, or disprove as harmful. They are the
same people with the same access to information you and me has. And since
nobody has experience with that kind of products, opinion of people who have
given some title by someone is not much more valuable than anyone else who
learns about nutrition himself.

~~~
mbreese
Experts have spent years studying their field. Sure, the information and books
are all there for you to learn from. Hell, if you spend enough time at it, you
might be an expert too. But do you really expect someone to sit and spend the
time required to truly grok nutrition, health, medicine, etc? Oh, and how do
you sift through the information to determine what is true and what isn't?

The information that experts have is probably available to most anyone, but
where experts really have the advantage is that they have the proper context
and training to correctly interpret and apply that knowledge.

It's one thing to try this stuff out on your own body. When you start
convincing others to try it too is when it gets dangerous.

~~~
cLeEOGPw
> Oh, and how do you sift through the information to determine what is true
> and what isn't?

Regarding nutrition studies, it is not possible not only to regular person,
but also to nutrition experts themselves, because there are many contradicting
results from different studies in this field. That's why for this startup he
uses mostly plain biology and chemistry, which is far less contradicting, and
only fills some gaps with nutrition studies. I'd say nutrition studies are the
weakest source of information available, compared to chemistry and biology.

So you call this thing dangerous when others attempt it? If this is dangerous,
how would you call mass consumption of junk food and trans fats? It should be
called a genocide, if you call this experiment dangerous.

------
cuttooth
A bad idea run by someone who has no clue about what he's doing combined with
another bad idea supported by people who have no clue about what they're
doing? Sign me up.

~~~
jafaku
How is Bitcoin a bad idea, and how do we not know what we are doing?

~~~
betterunix
1\. Bitcoin has no rigorous security definition.

2\. Bitcoin can be "attacked" (for some vague notion of what it means to
attack a system that has no security definition) in polynomial time.

3\. The economics of Bitcoin are extremely suspect and based on a poorly
developed economic model, supported by neither the Austrian school nor by
modern monetary theory. This is probably the underlying cause of the lack of a
security definition, as the security definition of a digital cash system will
almost certainly be driven by the system's economic model.

These issues have been covered ad nauseam by many people, and have been
largely dismissed by the Bitcoin community. All the while we have seen
increasing amounts of energy sunk into Bitcoin mining, we have seen a major
block chain fork that left transactions in question, and we have seen wild
fluctuations in the value of Bitcoin currency.

~~~
bpodgursky
Adding a few of my own peeves:

4\. Bitcoin is inherently deflationary, which is an awful idea if you talk to
anyone who knows anything about money

5\. Bitcoin is fundamentally backed by pointlessly wasting CPU cycles and
wasting energy trying to reverse hashes.

~~~
jafaku
4\. Last time I checked, gold was still very valuable. And it has been used
for what... Thousands of years? The economies of the world did just fine
without forced inflation and consumerism.

5\. Printing paper money wastes way more resources. And how is using energy to
create something of value a bad idea anyway? Bitcoin doesn't even require that
you use a contaminating type of energy, for all I know you could be hashing
with solar energy.

~~~
bpodgursky
Most transactions now do not involve cash, and credit card transactions are in
fact far more energy-efficient than bitcoin transactions. And it is not just
using energy to "create something of value"\--it is an artificial waste of
energy barrier.

Furthermore, there will be an energy cost to transactions even after no
substantial number of bitcoins are mined, since just verifying transactions
requires wasteful hashing.

The solar energy part is totally irrelevant--if you happen to have a solar
panel sitting around, you could just as easily use it for actual work (and
offset coal burning) rather than computing hashes.

~~~
jafaku
> credit card transactions are in fact far more energy-efficient than bitcoin
> transactions

Huh? You seriously think Visa/Mastercard are using less energy than Bitcoin?

> Furthermore, there will be an energy cost to transactions even after no
> substantial number of bitcoins are mined, since just verifying transactions
> requires wasteful hashing.

You can call it wasteful all you want, but if you don't see the value in
creating/maintaining a global framework for storing and exchanging value, then
I don't know what to tell you. Besides, you are comparing apples to oranges.
Bitcoin is a currency. You can build things like Visa _around_ Bitcoin.

------
zhemao
Every time I see a Soylent article on HN I hope that it's all just a sick joke
that will soon be revealed as an elaborate hoax and forgotten about. Why the
hell would anyone in their right mind base their entire diet off of some
liquid concoction made up by some random guy who is clearly not a
nutritionist? Why don't you guys just learn to eat a healthy and balanced
diet?

~~~
JoshTriplett
I'd tend to expect that as this becomes more popular, they'll get some
nutritionists on board. That doesn't mean it's completely insane for people to
try it before that point.

Personally, I don't want to be an early adopter of this (I don't like to mix
"bleeding edge" and health), but I'm quite interested. And to answer your last
question: the hope is that this _is_ a healthy and balanced diet.

~~~
zhemao
Blegh, maybe eventually, but I doubt it. We can already eat healthy and
balanced diets today. No need to wait until they perfect some formula.

I know some people might want to use this just for a quick bite (er, slurp?)
when they're in a rush, but the creator's original post indicated that he was
consuming soylent for every meal because, for some reason, he found the act of
chewing to be somewhat tiresome. Are soylent fans just so busy that they don't
have time to eat a good meal each day? If so, you may want to rethink your
choices in life. Slow down, take things easier, enjoy life's simple pleasures.
Building that game-changing app or chasing VC money can wait until after
dinner.

~~~
JoshTriplett
Sounds like you're not in the target market, then, because you're attached to
the concept of a meal. Don't assume that anyone who _is_ in the target market
has something wrong with them and needs to "rethink [their] choices in life".

The issue isn't "so busy", it's "better things to do with that time". Total up
the amount of time you spend shopping for food, preparing food, storing food,
and eating food. Are you saying you can't think of any better uses for that
time?

Also note that making meal consumption optional doesn't prevent you from
partaking in it as a social occasion whenever you want.

But in general, the target market for this considers the need to consume food,
much like the need to sleep, an annoying biological requirement rather than a
feature. Patches welcome.

------
w1ntermute
For those of you considering Soylent, please read this first:
[http://www.priceplow.com/blog/soylent-
subterfuge](http://www.priceplow.com/blog/soylent-subterfuge)

Corresponding HN discussion:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6115114](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6115114)

------
throwawayyyz
Sorry, but I can never trust something made for human consumption by the guy
who wrote this:
[http://robrhinehart.com/?p=572](http://robrhinehart.com/?p=572) (especially
the Hormones, Antibiotics and Processed Food section).

~~~
ballard
Seems to be a totally incoherent braindump of every populist psuedo-fear,
similar to a political stump speech.

The only half-way valid point is on organic greenwashing.

~~~
nazgulnarsil
It's a list of _myths_ , with the thesis that things are getting better. Try
some reading comprehension.

~~~
ballard
I skimmed it because it was not worth my time. Try civility. Mmm tasty. =)

~~~
babby
Then in future dont make comments, it's part of the HN etiquette is it not, to
actually read the subject matter you're talking about?

------
mikemoka
How is it possible that a fixed diet may fit every different lifestyle?

I mean, would soylent be enough for people going to gym frequently? would it
be too much for people always working at home?

~~~
babby
Basically the formula is supposed to be customizable. Ie. more protein for
body builders etc.

If it becomes big, which, I guess is possible, it only makes sense for the
Soylent community to hack away. Im thinking it may evolve into few solid
recipes that can be mass-distributed and then for those who want fine grained
control they can get the separate ingredients/supplements themselves and
either modify an existing recipe or create one from scratch.

This whole thing would be pretty stupid-er if it was only going to be one
recipe.

------
dictum
I have a lot to learn from the whey protein industry. They've managed to
convince people who have never stepped foot in a gym to drink the old whey and
maltodextrin concoction and call it a revolution.

~~~
kazagistar
Last I heard they were removing the whey protein in favor of non-animal
products. Also, the idea is that you can literally never eat anything other
then Soylent, and have complete nutrition for an active lifestyle.

------
ballard
All it takes is for a nutritionist to come in, do something better and open-
source. _Squish_

~~~
nazgulnarsil
Open source, made from whole foods, Soylent Orange:
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjA38cUd4BZBdGZ...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjA38cUd4BZBdGZYM012N0JZTzEtVk05MVF4dlZyZ2c#gid=0)

I guess I'm going to write up an explanation and justification based on my
review of nutrition research at some point. But it's not like it's
monetizeable, so I lack motivation.

~~~
ballard
There's always money that can be made, even if it's a "commodity" by being a
knowledge person / service provider. By open sourcing, that's a signal of so
much confidence on a mfgr's part that people would stick with a particular
brand the existence of a recipe which can be easily replicated. Most people
aren't going to bother. Knock-offs can come in and try, but probably aren't
going to dent brand-affinity.

Many people, especially high income people, would gladly pay for the
convenience of ready-to-go product.

~~~
anonymoushn
> Many people, especially high income people, would gladly pay for the
> convenience of ready-to-go product.

I'll second this. I've used the linked formula off and on, but there's not a
significant difference in convenience between using it and getting food
elsewhere. The mixture seems to change within a few hours of being made in a
way that has not encouraged me to continue consuming it, so I have not tried
preparing it in bulk. Assuming there isn't a way to make it remain appetizing
for a few days after making it, it seems to be only about as convenient as
weekly bulk cooking of chicken/rice/eggs/veggies/dishes that combine these
things.

If nazgulnarsil has made large batches of it, though, I'd love to hear about
it :)

------
eru
Bitcoin is the ideal match for Soylent, since it does not allow any
chargebacks.

------
ballard
Shitty mobile pix...

Store-brand ingredients and nutrition info:
[http://screencast.com/t/KhqgkXT73Ofe](http://screencast.com/t/KhqgkXT73Ofe)

Major-brand:
[http://screencast.com/t/KhqgkXT73Ofe](http://screencast.com/t/KhqgkXT73Ofe)

~~~
babby
Same link twice, friend.

~~~
ballard
Thanks for the feedback.

[http://screencast.com/t/4dRnEZuw](http://screencast.com/t/4dRnEZuw)

------
jhuckestein
I find it surprising that so many people here are reluctant to try soylent and
afraid to "risk their health" because it is made by "a bunch of 20-something
computer scientists".

Do you really think the traditional food industry as it is is looking out for
you? Most people I know have terribly unhealthy diets and almost anything that
anyone put any thought in will be better for them. I'm not saying Soylent is
perfect or doesn't cause any long term ill-effects, I'm just saying that it
can't be much worse than a lot of "normal" diets.

~~~
oinksoft
At least the traditional food industry continues to be in the business of
producing stuff that is mostly food. This is a radically different concept, as
it is synthesized from the raw nutritional components.

Whether it is safe or not, this is a great case study for nutritionists. But I
don't want to be a guinea pig.

------
rza
I would love to believe in this product, but there are just so many sketchy
statements on the homepage alone that I doubt the ability of the team. People
are literally going to entrust their lives to this product and the best third-
party assurances they have are completely un-cited quotes such as:

"The taste is awesome."

"As a Biologist/Chemist I approve of Soylent and really want to start using
it."

"My mood experience! It has improved a lot lately. And by a lot, I mean A
LOT."

------
schrototo
Finally I can buy my fake food with fake money.

------
mrbannerjee
irony is dead

------
threepipeproblm
It's made of BITS.

