
Traveling the World on a Third World Passport - cirrus-clouds
https://www.bucketlistly.blog/posts/how-to-travel-third-world-passport-thai
======
Aramgutang
Visa-free travel was what made me truly understand what "privilege" means.

Having an Armenian passport and travelling extensively through my life made me
very familiar with what the author describes: the months-long waits, the fees,
the scramble for documents, the uncertainty, the inability to travel without
planning months in advance, the queues, the unpleasant experiences at
airports, etc...

Eventually I managed to become an Australian permanent resident, which grants
the right to travel to New Zealand without a visa. Some time after, a sudden
opportunity came up, and I landed at Auckland airport, having booked my
tickets the night before. I handed my completely blank, recently renewed,
Armenian passport to the immigration agent (permanent residency is technically
a type of visa, there is no "green card", and Australian visas are electronic,
not placed as labels in a passport unless requested). He scanned it, stamped
it, and handed it back to me, welcoming me to NZ. Took all of 20 seconds.

That whole experience was completely surreal for me, not because it was so
different, but because it was so mundane. There was nothing to suggest that
this process might be different for some people. Everything about it screamed
"this is normal", while my mind screamed the opposite.

That was my first-hand lesson that unless you've ever lacked a certain
privilege, it is near-impossible to be innately aware of it. Sure, others may
try to educate you and make you aware, but it doesn't convey just how profound
of an impact a privilege can have on the lives of those who lack it.

~~~
pjc50
One of the remarkable things about Brexit has been all the people campaigning
against visa-free travel and residence who didn't realise it was reciprocal
and would apply to them. _Especially_ Britons who had immigrated to Spain or
France and were relying on freedom of movement rather than the tedious
business of actual residency.

~~~
sonnyblarney
Nobody in the UK is arguing that EU citizens should not be able to travel visa
free, or rather, this is fringe, and a tiny minority of them wouldn't grasp it
would be reciprocal.

Most are arguing against free settlement and access to social services and
voting rights by anyone else in the EU. This is a hugely different thing.

Furthermore, the UK would under any system allow quite a number of EU citizens
to come and work, so long as they meet some kind of criteria consistent with
the needs of the UK - this is rational.

Spain benefits quite tremendously from the 'near full time' retirees coming
there, so long as they don't have to foot the bill for healthcare (which they
don't) and it would be in Spain's interest to have quite a large number of
Britons coming there to retire. Britons aren't looking for jobs or voting
rights, or to have children in the economy, just for domicile for a couple of
decades.

~~~
pjc50
In the absence of a national ID system or local registration requirements (a
la France), how do you tell the difference between a visa free entrant and an
illegal resident?

> criteria consistent with the needs of the UK

So, would you be imposing the existing rest-of-world spousal visa requirements
on people who are already here with their EU spouses? If the answer is yes, do
you accept that you're going to force a significant number of Brits to either
lose their family or emigrate?

The existing Home Office system is already an inhumane disaster area which has
no clear idea what "the needs of the UK" are.

> don't have to foot the bill for healthcare (which they don't)

Isn't this dependent on the EHIC system? What's happening with that?

Aren't you uncomfortable with the idea that being domiciled somewhere for a
couple of decades wouldn't come with voting rights?

~~~
sonnyblarney
"In the absence of a national ID system or local registration requirements (a
la France), how do you tell the difference between a visa free entrant and an
illegal resident?"

Are you asking 'how the rest of the world' does it?

Or how the UK handles non-EU visitors today that don't require visas?

Because I don't think it's a concern.

"ren't you uncomfortable with the idea that being domiciled somewhere for a
couple of decades wouldn't come with voting rights?"

Not at all. Especially because 'a vote' won't hardly make a difference. What
matters is the integrity of the regime in question, and Spain is 'good
enough'.

If Spain wants to give local/municipal voting rights to those on long-term
retirement visas, then that's fine - point being, it's the decision of the
Spaniards, not some ruthless adherence to ideology such as 'freedom of
movement', the harsh interpretation of which is tearing the EU apart and
turning politics across the continent upside down.

------
xaranke
As a holder of a weak passport (India), I'm surprised that the author hasn't
used the most effective hack for "powering up" a passport: getting a US
visitor (B1/B2) visa.

A US B1/B2 Visitor Visa will generally get you into an additional dozen or so
countries (sometimes more), as outlined here:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_the_United_Stat...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_the_United_States)
(see "Use for other countries" section). This list crucially includes Turkey,
which the author could have used for applying for an EU visa from Istanbul
instead of going home.

Not to mention that the US Visitor Visa will let you visit the US for up to 6
months at a time for the next 10 years for a reasonably modest fee of ~$200.
Also unlike other countries you don't need to document a plan to visit the US
and your visa remains valid even if your passport expires and you get a new
passport.

Given all this, I'm not sure why the author hasn't made this (relatively)
small investment.

If you're opposed to getting a US visa for ethical reason, you can also pull
off the same (albeit to a lesser degree) via a Canadian/British/Schengen
visitor visa (roughly in that order).

~~~
zcbenz
One of my India friend has applied for a B1/B2 visa for multiple times and did
not get approved, even though he had already traveled to quite a lot
countries.

I also got rejected a B1/B2 visa for 3 times (I'm holding China passport), and
I finally flew and moved to U.S. after my company sponsored me a H1B visa.

The B1/B2 visa is truly the hardest visa to get for most third world people.

~~~
Zombieball
Wow I never would’ve thought this. As a Canadian, when I travel to the US for
work / vacations I sometimes get my passport stamped with a B1/B2 visa (it is
very common to cross the border with no Visa stamp in your passport).

I found this stamp more of an annoyance!

~~~
usepgp
Canada is easily considered a first-world / powerful passport country.

[https://www.passportindex.org/comparebyPassport.php?p1=ca&p2...](https://www.passportindex.org/comparebyPassport.php?p1=ca&p2=us&fl=&s=yes)

------
zcbenz
As a holder of third world passport, you will be really truly fucked up when
your flight temporarily changed destination and landed on a country to which
you don't have a visa.

This is what would happen to you:

1\. The aircrew would tell you everything is fine and totally ignored you
after landing. And you got no compensation from the airline.

2\. The custom control would hold you in a small black room from 12 hours to 7
days, along with all kinds of illegal immigrants.

3\. Usually you would end up getting expelled to your passport's country, with
it recorded on their system and even stamped on your passport, which means it
will become much harder for you to apply for a visa.

~~~
xaranke
Can you give an example?

I've never had this happen to me and my assumption was that if you stayed
airside (didn't cross immigration) you would be fine.

~~~
dman
Indians require transit visas when traveling through Canada. (I almost learnt
this the hard way when flying through Canada, as a complete coincidence I had
a canadian visa from a prior trip that was close to expiring)

~~~
xaranke
Right, but Canada doesn't have a distinction between airside and landside
transit. Although as a rule of thumb you should always check the rules for
every country you are passing through.

------
0xBABAD00C
It is hell. The difference between having a third (or second) world passport
and a US passport is night and day. Worst of all is the attitude at embassies
from some washed-up diplomat-wannabes who show open animosity and derision
towards you and your kind and get a sweet power trip out of each such
interaction. It is literally a hellish experience I don't wish anyone to go
through...

~~~
elboru
I’m from Mexico and even though my country has some bad immigrant reputation I
haven’t had any problem traveling several times to the US, Europe and some
Latin American countries. What countries had you had bad experiences with?

~~~
qaq
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Mexican_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Mexican_citizens)

Mexican passport is really good for visa free travel.

~~~
xaranke
Mexico is a classic tier-2 passport according to Andrew Henderson (Nomad
Capitalist).

------
peachananr
Thank you for sharing my article here guys! Glad it gets the discussion going!

To address one of the point in the comments about why i dont have a US Visa is
that I haven't been traveling there at all and the process of getting a visa
for Thais are very difficult, more so than the Schengen one. We have to fill
in the longest form ever online, make an appointment and pay upfront, and then
they will call me to have a one on one interview session and I have to dress
properly (business attire apparently) for it just require so much effort that
I decided to go to other countries instead. But even with the US Visa I won't
be able to ask for a visa abroad in countries like Kazakhstan or many other
countries that have embassy in Bangkok. They always ask for a proof of
residency in the country I ask for the visa. :/

I'm glad it gets the conversion going though and the US is finally on the list
now for me and I'll try and see if I can get 10 years. Apparently they are
giving less and less of that nowadays as well.

~~~
xaranke
Hey! I'm the person who suggested getting a US visa, although I realize it may
be tricky for a lot of people.

Glad to see that I am not the only one frustrated with tough visa
restrictions.

~~~
peachananr
Thank you for the suggestion. I'll definitely give it a go :)

------
betocmn
And that's for travelling. Think about how many people struggle in their home
country with very few chances to try it out in a better place for them.

As Nancy Birdsall puts it [1]: "No other circumstance of birth — not race,
gender, ethnicity, or parental socioeconomic status — so completely determines
life chances as the nation of birth, essentially because of border
restrictions on the mobility of labour".

[1]
[https://www.cgdev.org/sites/default/files/9781933286105-Prit...](https://www.cgdev.org/sites/default/files/9781933286105-Pritchett-
let-their-people-come.pdf)

~~~
xaranke
In my experience, people from India (and I'm guessing other third-world
countries) often move to a foreign country without ever visiting first given
the expense of travel and their limited savings. In a way immigrating is more
accessible to them than visiting as a tourist.

But generally, yes I agree with your point.

~~~
sumedh
> In a way immigrating is more accessible to them than visiting as a tourist.

Not really. Someone from a developed country can get a working holiday visa to
other developed countries very easily and work and travel.

People from third world countries cannot do that, ofcourse I understand why
they cannot do that.

~~~
jkaplowitz
Most working holiday visas top out at a certain age, like 35 or even lower.
The US participates in surprisingly few - only five, most of which have
maximum ages of 25-30.

But, sure, what you say applies to young people from most developed countries.

------
andybak
Brit here. Would love to travel to the States one day but it sounds like an
awful hassle so I continually pick easier destinations. Even the whole "give
up your social media passwords" is enough to make me go "meh..."

Vancouver was lovely. Might be as close as I'll ever get....

~~~
curiousgal
The US is worth the hassle in my opinion simply because of its national parks.
I have never seen anything like them in the world, in the span of like 3
states (Utah, Arizona and Colorado) you can experience 3 different landscapes
(otherwise found in at least 2 different continents/countries) and just feel,
truly happy, unlike other touristic experiences. (At least in my case,
something about nature I find so serene)

~~~
adventured
It is funny in a way, the national and state parks may be America's best
tourist feature hands down. It's a remarkable collection. Places like NYC can
obviously be a great experience. The parks are pretty special though, a lot of
the other typical touristy stuff you can more or less get in numerous other
countries. And it's inexpensive, a $80 annual pass gets multiple people access
to thousands of federal recreation spots and all 60 national parks.

------
adityapurwa
I would like to say welcome to Indonesia for the author of the post! I am
Indonesian, and just like what the author described, it is also hard for
Indonesian passport to travel around the world. There are some visa free
countries we could visit, such as member of ASEAN countries.

Indonesia is big, and the foreign embassy usually only located on the capital,
Jakarta, or other big cities.

It is hard for me to travel to country that require a visa because I, first
have to travel to the capital, this already took a whole day off work, and
also expense of travel, then either stay in the capital (more money for rent)
or go back to my home city, then back again to the embassy once its ready
(another money and time spent for travel).

The problem was not the money or time, the problem is that we cant be certain
whether our effort will yield result (e.g for me to travel to the capital, say
2 times and say 2 night hotel stay, would be around $300, also around 4 days
taken from yearly leaves).

Considering that, I’ll just visit visa-free country for now.

~~~
peachananr
Hey, I am the author. Greetings from Bajawa, Flores! Beautiful country you
have! And you are right, Indonesia is massive. I've been back and forth at
least 5 times in the past 6 years and still haven't been to Sumatra adn
Sulawesi!

But yes, that's what I did as well by starting my journey in Cambodia and
worked my way from there :)

~~~
adityapurwa
Hi, nice that you enjoyed Indonesia! Even I havent been to Sulawesi nor
Flores, good luck with your trip and safe travel!

------
emiliobumachar
Brazilian here, with a US visa. The appointment in the consulate took several
hours, mostly waiting in line. You really have to set aside an entire day.

Also, they keep your passport for a few days, then send it through the mail.

I'm still lucky to live a couple hours drive from the nearest consulate.
Brazil is a big country, and for many the consulate visit is a travel event in
itself.

~~~
Fomite
In fairness, this is true for getting a Brazilian visa in the U.S. My
understanding is this is retaliatory, one way or the other.

~~~
marcosdumay
Brazil reciprocates all and any customs process any country implements.

It will go as low process as only verifying the foreign documents at the
border against a known criminal list, and as high process as demanding an
entire day at the embassy on the specific case of the US.

~~~
schoen
> and as high process as demanding an entire day at the embassy on the
> specific case of the US.

I've obtained three Brazilian visas and witnessed other Americans obtain them,
and I've never seen anyone have to spend a full day at the consulate. In fact,
we can request them through visa expediters without appearing at a consulate
in person at all.

------
nish1500
Oddly, having residency in one of the more developed countries does little to
mitigate the ill-fated effects of a weak passport.

I am a Canadian resident with an Indian passport.

A 10-day trip to Iceland involved me having to submit 6 - 12 types of personal
and financial documents, and showing hotel bookings for everyday of my visit.

I need to wait for 2 weeks to submit my application (in-person of course). The
processing takes 2 - 6 weeks, not including the time they take to actually
parcel your application to the embassy.

I am 16 days into waiting and my application tracking status is stuck on the
message it showed on the first day. I contacted their support, and their
response was, "Oh year we didn't update that. I don't know what stage your
application is at, and this is the most information I can give you." I paid
more than $100 in visa and courier fees.

I have travelled to over 15 countries and the above experience is, by far, one
of the easiest processes I have been through.

~~~
xaranke
It is definitely a pain, but if you naturalize you'll only have to endure this
for another 3 years.

------
megamindbrian2
My wife is an immigrant from Poland. There is a lot of truth in this article.
Governments discriminate against other governments A LOT and the citizens pay
the price for that. In the US it would be considered illegal to take a Puerto
Rican to jail for not having a passport, but there are cops dumb enough to
think Puerto Rico is not a part of the US.

Contrarily, many countries discriminate against people with a US passport.
There is a hidden resort fee just for foreigners that hotels all around the
world charge, but if you speak the native language, you can bypass the fee.

~~~
adventured
I ran into an amplified version of that during a long trip to France in the
midst of the peak political fallout between the US and France over the Iraq
war.

The French being the French, every interaction was made dramatically better so
long as I made every effort to stay in their language. There was a lot of
tension in the air with regards to the US, dialogue in their language always
defused that. Older people were the nicest, they were always surprised I was
there and were happy to see an American in Paris at that time.

------
madmax108
Had a funny experience on a recent Eurotrip I was on. I ended up losing a
jacket (important to me for personal reasons) in Austria (Salzburg) on a tram,
and had to depart for Germany (Munich) the next morning. I'd reported the loss
to the bus operator and when they found the jacket they called to ask me to
collect it from their office in Salzburg, but by then I was already in Munich.

I ended up taking an early morning bus the next day from Munich to Salzburg,
collected by jacket and was back in Munich by lunch. We had a bungee jump
happening in Innsbruck (again Austria) the next day so we crossed the border
again, only to come back to Germany a day later.

So in 3 days I ended up crossing the border LEGALLY 5+ times.

This story blows the mind of friends back home. Foreign travel is a much
bigger deal in many places because of the planning involved (I even know
people who had to return from layover airports because they were unaware that
the airport needs a visa as well even if only on a layover... Yes, that's
silly, but it's happened).

As someone who carries a "weak" Indian passport (Yeah, I have a 10 year B1/B2,
but honestly that's still a far cry from most decent passports w.r.t. travel),
the Schengen process was astounding. I really hope more countries open up
their visa restrictions to travellers.

~~~
madeofpalk
Borders around that part of the world really are more of an implementation
detail than anything important.

I'm originally from Australia but living in the UK for a year or so. I went on
a couple month long holiday around the UK and while I was in northern Italy, I
decided it would be nice to spend a couple of days in southern Switzerland. I
hopped on a local commuter train and like 40 minutes later I was in
Switzerland. The next day I went on a bit of a day hike and 'accidentally'
hiked back into Italy for a stunning view.

~~~
madeofpalk
'Edit': I went on a holiday around _Europe_.

------
superasn
It's no wonder why (rich) people spend so much money to get a St kitts
citizenship just to avoid all this. It does really take the fun out of the
travel IMO.

The worst still is the US visa in which you have to go for an interview like a
fucking job interview in order for them to ascertain if you're fit or not. I
have travelled so much around the world but hated traveling to US because of
this reason (because at least with rest of the countries a travel agent can do
almost 90% of the leg work).

But when I think calmly I don't blame them though because people do abuse it a
lot. I think one time our entire rowing team disappeared in the US after
arriving.

~~~
charlesdm
You're kidding, right? St Kitts isn't exactly a world class passport.

If you want to "buy" a first world passport, go for a passport from any EU
country. Plenty of countries offer passports to investors.

~~~
Mediterraneo10
Right now, at least for Russian buyers of citizenship-by-investment (a field
with which I have some acquaintance as a RU-EN translator with some such firms
as clients), only Malta among the EU countries is an attractive option. Other
EU countries are no longer so quick to hand out citizenship, only residency
permits.

The Caribbean countries may not seem “world class” to you, but passports of
some of them do offer visa-free travel to Schengen and Commonwealth nations,
which in itself is enough for many of these investors.

------
NKosmatos
Here is the passport index global ranking:
[https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php](https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php)

Never occurred to me that Greece would be so high in the list :-)

~~~
xaranke
This is mostly because of inclusion in EU; the EU is able to negotiate visa
policies for their citizens as a block instead of individually.

~~~
nraynaud
it's even mandatory, bilateral treaties are mostly forbidden.

~~~
xaranke
I'm not so sure, IIRC Polish and Romanian citizens need a visa for visiting
the US even though they are both EU members and US citizens are allowed to
visit both visa-free.

------
macdice
Coming home recently I was somewhat surprised to see that US Global Entry card
holders can now skip immigration at New Zealand airports via a fast lane
otherwise reserved for diplomats, _even though New Zealanders are not eligible
for the Global Entry programme in the States_. Whoever negotiated that
asymmetrical deal... sheesh...

It so happens that NZ's regular immigration is now just an electronic gate
that takes your photo, if you have certain passports (NZ, UK, Canada,
Australia, US, some European countries etc). So it's already pretty close to
the preferred entry schemes in the US and other countries and they're not
missing much. But if you didn't have one of those lucky passports, but you did
have one on the Global Entry eligibility list (which now includes India) I
wonder if Global Entry would be a nice upgrade that would get you into several
other countries more smoothly (effectively outsourcing the vetting process to
the US, which seems kinda weird to me, but that seems to be what's happening).

~~~
xaranke
Does this apply to citizens of other countries with Global Entry too?
[https://www.cbp.gov/travel/trusted-traveler-
programs/global-...](https://www.cbp.gov/travel/trusted-traveler-
programs/global-entry/eligibility)

~~~
macdice
Good question, I can't find any information about that. I just saw the special
lane with my own eyes.

------
dronemallone
Not to mention standing in long queues OUTSIDE the consulate, sometimes for
several hours.

[https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/new-
queue-...](https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/new-queue-system-
saves-time-for-us-visa-applicants/article2148154.ece)

~~~
patall
Just to give some perspective, not all your visa problems are because you have
a weak passport:

As a European, that happened to me when I needed a work visa for the US (for 2
month unpaid internship, J-1 visa). Only had to wait 20 min though because I
had to book an appointment via credit card for $10. And I would not say that
the guys there were nice in anyways. (Whole thing cost me $500, one day of
travelling and 2 month preparing the whole thing in total.)

------
coolanymous
It's amusing that the author complains about a 2-week process for getting a
Visa where Iranians have to wait months and in some cases a couple of years
for a simple visitor Visa to US, and in many cases be denied for no good
reason

~~~
xaranke
If you're from Iran you can't even get a visitor visa now:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_the_United_Stat...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_the_United_States#Visa_or_entry_refused_to_nationals_of_certain_countries).

Also waiting for a visa for 2 weeks means that your passport is tied up for
those two weeks and you're unable to leave the country you're in. This could
put a serious dent in the plans of any digital nomad.

------
dredmorbius
NB , it seems travel visas emerged in the early 1920s.

[https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=travel%20visa%...](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=travel%20visa%2C%20transit%20visa%2C%20visa%20stamp%2C%20passport%20visa&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ctravel%20visa%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Ctransit%20visa%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cvisa%20stamp%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cpassport%20visa%3B%2Cc0)

~~~
umeshunni
Visas and passports started widely being used post-World War I

------
xvilka
Similar experience with Russian passport as well. Treating someone just by a
place where he/she was born is a racism, just in a less obvious fashion.

~~~
SeaSeaRider
Ironically, Russia is one of the most difficult countries to enter in the
world, for passport holders from any country.

~~~
xvilka
Sadly it is true. Russia is an awesome location for non-urban tourism with a
wild variety of climate - from hellish desert to a cold-hellish snow one, from
high-rise mountains to vast expanses of swamps. Totally worth a visit.

------
nojvek
My cousin from Kenya got his visa denied to US and it was sort of heart
breaking. Being from Kenya myself and now in US, I’ve missed many flights to
vacations and a friend’s wedding because Visa would not come on time.

You have to do quite a bit of preparation and paper work quite early. Hefty
visa price easing fees and long queues. Having a first world passport is
definitely a big previlege.

------
superseeplus
Something not often mentioned is that some countries (UK, Spain and France
come to mind) require a visa to transit through their airports.

~~~
xaranke
This can often be waived if you stay airside and have a visa from another
first world country. I've done this personally with a US Visa in the UK and
France, can't speak to Spain.

~~~
Aramgutang
The UK even allows visa-free 24-hour transit that allows leaving the airport
for almost anyone.

While studying in the US, I once booked a flight to visit my relatives in
Prague, flying into Heathrow, then flying out from Gatwick 18 hours later,
leaving me with a whole day to explore London. It's supposed to be at the
immigration agent's discretion, but he was happy to let me through, despite my
Armenian passport.

Return leg was slightly more complicated, because the airline staff in Prague
refused to check me in, since the flight was to London, and I had no UK visa.
After at least half an hour of arguing, they ended up drawing up a waiver for
me to sign, and let me on.

------
js2
Semi-related "Show HN: Compare benefits of second passport based on the one
you have" (201 points, 145 comments) from last month:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17577386](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17577386)

[https://multinational.io/](https://multinational.io/)

------
grosjona
One positive thing about being born in a third-world country is that if you
can manage to train yourself to become a good software developer (which I
admit is probably much harder to achieve than in a first-world country), you
can find remote work for a foreign (first-world) company and then you can live
like a rich person in your own country (buy houses, etc...); this seems
relatively attainable if you put your mind to it. When you're from a first-
world country, becoming rich is essentially unattainable; you wish you could
move to a third-world country to live a better quality of life, but that's not
really an option; often, the law of these countries forbid foreigners from
owning property; also, you don't know the language or culture so you might end
up getting ripped off when doing large transactions.

------
k_bx
Visa-free regime with EU is one of the best things that happened to Ukrainians
a few years ago, we now have many more low-cost flight tickets and directions
available, and most of my friends are using it, often surprising me at what's
possible even on a low budget some of them have.

------
empath75
I spent three months traveling through Central America and the stories I heard
of the difficulties people face trying to just visit America are absurd.

It’s just ridiculous that Americans can show up basically anywhere on earth
and get waved in and we don’t extend that courtesy to others.

~~~
macdice
I think most countries would prefer to do it reciprocally as a matter of pride
(for example Brazil started fingerprinting US travellers after the US was the
first to start doing that to all foreigners), but in some cases they can't
afford to put up barriers to tourism dollar inflows, so they make a difficult
choice. Plenty of countries _won 't_ let Westerners waltz in without a visa --
for example India and China.

~~~
xaranke
It ultimately comes down to balancing priorities - bringing in tourist money
vs keeping up diplomatically.

Both India and China have realized this - India allows an eVisa and China
allows you to transit visa-free for upto 144 hours.

------
morazow
Opening the page and seeing first picture made me smile :) That is a place in
Turkmenistan!

Coming from there and living in Germany, I wish someday to be able to travel
the world possibly with German passport though..

------
gandutraveler
I wish there was a MoviePass like service for visa's. Pay a monthly/yearly for
fee hassle free travel. Hopefully someday!

P.S.I don't have enough money to pay upfront to buy citizenship in Grenada

~~~
xaranke
The cost of visas is generally not an issue, especially weighing it against
the cost of flights, accommodation and food.

What I really wish for is a Common App-like system for visas that will copy
over info like Name, Date and Place of Birth, Travel History etc from one visa
application to another. Automating bank balance details would also be a nice
touch.

P.S.: If you have an Indian passport, the number of countries we have access
to visa-free keeps on growing, making this service less and less necessary.

------
peter_retief
I have a South African passport and just applied for visa to visit the UK,
what a mission, relate completely with what you say. There are reasons why
certain countries are targeted for strict visas. South Africa used to have
quite a good passport until massive corruption in the SA government allowed
criminals and other nationalities to get SA passports, now everyone suffers

~~~
akhatri_aus
The South African one got struck off the list (Namibia remained) after there
were a string of drug smuggling incidents.

~~~
peter_retief
Well the government in ZA is still as crooked as ever, its not one event ;)

------
maxxxxx
I have German and US passports. I definitely feel very lucky with the way I
get treated at most borders compared to others. And Thai is probably still one
of the better ones. I wonder how it's to travel with a Pakistan or Afghanistan
passport.

~~~
vowelless
How did you manage to get German and US? Doesn't Germany expect you to be
exclusively German?

~~~
gervase
German citizenship can be passed _jus sanguinis_ , which doesn't conflict with
US requirements based on _jus soli_.

Thus, a child born in the US to German parents is eligible for citizenship in
both countries. This bypasses both countries' requirements on exclusive
citizenship because you are not _applying_ for citizenship, but rather
exercising your claim to _existing_ citizenship. This is a semantically
meaningful differentiation from a legal standpoint.

Note that exercising this claim yourself will permanently disqualify you from
government clearances at all levels.

Source: I went through this process.

[0]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_sanguinis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_sanguinis)

[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli)

~~~
evansd
> Note that exercising this claim yourself will permanently disqualify you
> from government clearances at all levels.

Can you elaborate a bit more on this? Is it something specific to German law?
A relative of mine who holds both US and UK citizenship worked for the US
government and later for the UK government and was granted elevated security
clearances in both roles.

~~~
rjsw
Both the US and UK are Five Eyes countries [1], Germany isn't.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes)

------
nmeofthestate
Summary: massively asymmetrical economic situations of different countries
(resulting in massively asymmetrical impetus for citizens to illegally migrate
across borders) leads to asymmetrical passport experiences for their citizens.

~~~
amelius
Objectively, the winner is the environment, however. Perhaps traveling should
be harder for everybody?

------
latchkey
Great visualization (I think posted here recently) of where you can travel
with a passport.

[http://multinational.io/compare_passports](http://multinational.io/compare_passports)

------
Simulacra
I just acquired a GDR passport from 1981. I wonder if it’s still good…

~~~
maxxxxx
Is it in your name?

~~~
Simulacra
I can neither confirm nor deny that.

------
interdrift
Brexit is about to make the UK index much much much lower.

~~~
chupasaurus
Britain is managing it's visa policies on it's own. It would be a hassle for
any country inside Shengen Agreement, though.

------
level09
If you think a Thai passport is bad, try travelling the world with a Syrian
passport. it is extremely difficult to get through even when you have a valid
visa (you could still be held for hours and eventually returned back). USA has
already blocked the whole nation on grounds of religion (Muslim Ban).

Life is extremely unfair, but thanks to the internet that empowered us, we can
now create ideas, exchange them for money and then buy our way out of life
disadvantages.

------
upstandingdude
Pff, I am from Europe and if i want to go to say China its the exact same
process. blah blah

~~~
xaranke
If you have a Western passport you can generally transit through for 72/144
hours without any problems.

------
ayayecocojambo
except that obligation to get visas for most of the countries (and paying some
valuable dollars and euros for them), some of my experiences on having
difficulties over my Turkish passport are:

\- 3 hours interrogation when exiting thailand (some of my turkish friends are
busted in their hostels in the 5 AM and taken to the police station for
interrogation)

\- 1 hours interrogation in china (then the local police handed me over to
some kind of special police force for some more quick interrogation) and
veeery detailed search on my backpack and stuff in public.

\- had to enter separate line on entering Serbia with other (only) Turkish
passport holders, where police officers asked why would i come to the country.

these 3 stuff happened just after the official saw Turkish passport.

some visa problems my friends had encountered:

\- when Trump had sanctions over some Arab countries on visas, Turkey was
unofficially in that list i presume since none of my friends got their US visa
at that time. (some of them was living in the US before or got their MS degree
in states)

\- not being able to get schengen visa. (having CS degree in the most
reputable universities in the country, have no criminal record per se)

\--

while travelling with foreign friends who have 'reputable passports', i
realise, oh that is not the standarts. this is happening since i have third
world passport + some bad reputation of my country.

------
londons_explore
Unmarked affiliate links aren't cool...

------
damnyou
ITT a bunch of Hacker News denizens discover the idea of privilege.

~~~
HumanDrivenDev
What do you mean by privilege here?

~~~
damnyou
Systemic unearned advantages. An easier difficulty mode for life, if you will.

~~~
HumanDrivenDev
Then I disagree that it's privilege. A civilisation requires active effort to
maintain, it cannot just float by on its own inertia. If people from western
countries did nothing but inherit the privilege of their parents, society
would quickly erode, and then their passport would be at the bottom of the
list as well.

~~~
damnyou
I never said people with privilege do nothing but inherit it. But the fact
that they inherited it makes many things easier. And in any case maintaining
privilege is usually much easier than gaining it.

~~~
HumanDrivenDev
Your definition of privilege was 'unearned'. I would challenge that by saying
that privilege is earned by successive generations generating and maintanining
said privilege.

[https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php](https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php)

The nation at the top of this list was a low-income, third world nation 60
years ago. Do you think this happened by accident?

