
Launch HN: Shogun (YC W18) – Storefront Builder for ECommerce Sites - Finbarr
We&#x27;re Finbarr and Nick, co-founders of Shogun - a storefront builder for eCommerce sites. We started the company 3 years ago. Initially it was a page builder for Rails apps[1, 2]. After about 9 months, we couldn&#x27;t convince many companies to pay us for that, but one of our prospects wanted to use it for a Shopify store. So we wrote a Shopify integration, waited a week, and gave up.<p>Within a month of giving up, we had some paying customers, so Nick and I continued to work on it as a side project. I went to work as a software engineer, and Nick moved to Thailand. We continued to work on it in our free time, and figured maybe someday it could be a lifestyle business.<p>But it continued to grow. And grow. And grow. By spring of 2017, it was making enough to pay Nick and me a modest salary, so I left my job and Nick came back from Asia. By fall, our growth wasn&#x27;t slowing down, and we figured that this could be a full-on software company.<p>We applied to YC, and Shogun grew 30% during the month between our application submission and our interview. We got in to the Winter 2018 batch.<p>Today Shogun is one of the most popular apps on Shopify. We just launched on BigCommerce as well and are now building out support for other eCommerce platforms.<p>In regard to tech, the hardest part has been implementing workarounds for all the bizarre quirks of each platform. We also build our pages to co-exist with the existing CSS and theme elements, so we have to be really careful with styling conflicts.<p>There are a lot of page building tools out there. Our major differentiator is that we focus on eCommerce specifically and integrate into your existing eCommerce platform&#x2F;backend. Shogun is also developer friendly with strong controls over details like padding and margins. We also built in a &quot;custom elements&quot; feature that allows developers to code re-usable drag and drop templates. Finding the right balance where developers love it and non-developers can learn it is very difficult.<p>We&#x27;re looking forward to hearing feedback and ideas from the community.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=9257363" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=9257363</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=9571603" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=9571603</a>
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orliesaurus
Aren't you afraid that if tomorrow Shopify releases their own version of your
plugin directly baked into their tool, you could lose a lot of customers over
night? The reason I say this, it's because as someone who has seen a lot of
vendors changing and limiting APIs and access, or just releasing baked-in
products - I have seen my fair share of companies having to pull a dangerous
U-turn! Nevertheless, it looks like a cool product!

~~~
whoisjuan
If they haven't do it by now, they probably won't. Why bother with this super-
crowded space (drag and drop builders) when you can let their app marketplace
figure it out. If it's successful Shopify customers win. If it's super
successful they can take a page from Automattic's book and acquire them.

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philfrasty
How does this compare to most builtin page builders in themes on e.g.
Themeforest? „Compare“ as in: why does Shogun seem to have SO MUCH MORE
potential in YC's POV?

For comparison: a top-selling theme on TF with a top notch built-in page
builder is usually around $50 to $70 one-time fee. Shogun with similiar
features in the most expensive version is $60 per month.

~~~
no1youknowz
Can you give an example of a top-selling theme with a page builder included?

~~~
redindian75
here are some:
[https://themeforest.net/category/ecommerce/shopify?term=buil...](https://themeforest.net/category/ecommerce/shopify?term=builder)

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jonbishop
I’m a Shogun fan. I was on a tight deadline to design, build, and launch our
new site on Shopify. Designing a new site is enough work without introducing
new functionality through apps you’ve never used before, especially in the
time frame I had. Not the recommended way to do things with so many ways it
could go wrong, but this was just the situation.

Shogun was an important factor in me hitting the deadline as it was very easy
to learn and build with. There are a lot of page builders out there, and many
hit a solid level of functionality, so it can hard to describe why Shogun is
better.

For me, the difference is the speed that I can build a good design at. The UI,
prebuilt templates, and backend speed all helped me move faster than with
other page builders. While I haven’t used their support, a lot of their
reviews on Shopify talk about how good it is (one reason I decided to take a
look at the app)

~~~
nickraushenbush
Awesome to hear you had a great experience with Shogun. What features do you
wish we had, or think we should build next?

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ajiang
Awesome. I don't know how common it is to see an app with 600+ reviews without
anything less than 4 stars. Great work to a great team.

[https://apps.shopify.com/shogun](https://apps.shopify.com/shogun)

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physcab
Looks like a great tool. I have a Shopify site that has a large amount of
products. I've had to build a lot of backend tech to manage all the syncing of
the products with the API. Making sure the products are updated with the right
info, are in the right collections, are connected and visible within my SEO
strategy. I've punted on the UI side and opted for just buying a nice theme
and doing some basic customizations bc working within Shopify is too painful.

I like the idea of smart data collections. If you guys had direct DB
connectivity, auto-populated the collections AND synced that between
platforms, that would be baller. And if you offered direct FB / Google
Merchant center feed control, that would be even more baller.

Would love to start a trial, but it seems daunting to figure out the migration
component. If you made a tutorial video on that, I can see that easing that
friction point.

~~~
Finbarr
This has actually been one of the harder parts of integrating. We mirror all
of the products in your store in our db so that you can use them in Shogun
pages. We have a Data Collection for your Shopify Products that you can use in
Custom Elements as well.

We're flushing out integration with Shopify collection pages right now, so it
might be that we end up with a Data Collection for those as well, which I
think would make your life easier.

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le-mark
_We applied to YC, and Shogun grew 30% during the month between our
application submission and our interview. We got in to the Winter 2018 batch._

This makes very little sense. If you had a proven, growing product in a large
market, why not just go for some angel investment or even series A funding? At
this point maybe you just need some cash to seize the oppurtunity ie fund some
developers to add polish, marketing, advertising to draw customers. A paltry
YC batch investment seems trivial, certainly less than you need. Also a
business based on Shopify and n1, n2, ... nx where x < 10? Seems like a lot of
risk.

~~~
jamestimmins
This sounds similar to a popular meme:

    
    
      1. "some developers to add polish, marketing, advertising to draw customers" 
      2. ???
      3. Profit
    

In reality it's much harder than that. And while I haven't gone to YC, it's
clear that they thought what they would benefit from YC in terms of funding,
connections, and expertise is worth more than what they were giving up in
equity.

~~~
le-mark
Well, that is the question, what benefit does a drag n drop shop builder get
from YC? Genuinely curious here.

~~~
Finbarr
The same benefits that any other startup gets from YC (in my opinion):

\- Prescriptive, expert advice and course correction at pivotal moments.

\- A forcing function around fundraising (Demo Day).

\- Access to opportunities in the wider community.

\- Name brand investor that helps with hiring.

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yding
Great story!

One thought: I'm looking at your pricing and it looks pretty low. Is that
something you've played around with?

Besides integrating with other platforms, what do you think the longer term
play of the company is? Is it to build your own shopify like platform?

~~~
Finbarr
It's definitely too low, and we're tweaking it. Patrick McKenzie (patio11) had
some great things to say on this topic recently[1].

We have no plans to build our own platform. Right now Shogun helps people to
build pages, but not measure or improve their performance. These are areas
we're interested in exploring.

[1] [https://stripe.com/atlas/guides/business-of-
saas](https://stripe.com/atlas/guides/business-of-saas)

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gupir
I think it is an interesting product. I am launching a website builder in a
few weeks, and this kind of product (web builder) is more complicated than I
initially devise. I wish the best for the team.

~~~
Finbarr
There are a lot of page builders out there. It's very hard to build a good
one. Best of luck with your project!

~~~
gupir
Yes, but what started as a petty project ended up gain momentum and I quite
enjoyed doing, so I know that my odds of success are slim, but at least I have
learned a ton of interesting things, including server in Erlang, android/java
programming, and a myriad of web technologies like react and js-crazy-world.

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lxxvii
Looks useful!

I noticed you have quite a few reviews in the Shopify app store - is there any
particular strategy you use there? Do you encourage reviews in-app or with
email?

~~~
Finbarr
Honestly we just provide really great support, and ask people for reviews when
we solve their problems.

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Kagerjay
Are you basing a lot of your designs off webflow? (Drag and drop)

Also, what future ecommerce carts are you looking at porting over?

~~~
Finbarr
Webflow is an awesome product and well aimed at designers and developers.
We're trying to provide something a little easier for marketers and other non
technical folks to use, while maintaining power on the backend that developers
love.

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locusm
What stack did you build on? I'm assuming Rails for back end, what about js
frameworks etc

~~~
Finbarr
Rails and React.

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rpedela
On a Pixel 2 using Chrome, clicking the top-level hamburger icon does not work
for me.

~~~
Finbarr
Ah thanks for letting us know. I don't think that menu actually does anything.
We're in the process of completely overhauling our site with a way nicer
design.

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tmikaeld
What about rendering speed?

Is this not an issue when you have many dynamic elements on a page?

~~~
Finbarr
Most of our elements are pure HTML and the pages are served up natively by the
eCommerce platforms, so there’s no hit to performance.

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mindhash
looks interesting. I had requirements from clients (e.g. apparel
manufacturers) to create product configurator. Is this sort of requirement
your tool can address?

~~~
Finbarr
We provide a bunch of standard elements out of the box, including some product
related elements. It sounds like you would need something custom, and we have
a feature that lets you create custom reusable drag/drop elements:
[https://help.getshogun.com/tutorial-
videos/advanced/creating...](https://help.getshogun.com/tutorial-
videos/advanced/creating-custom-elements-with-liquid-css-and-js)

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claudiulodro
Cool stuff. Any plans for WooCommerce?

~~~
Finbarr
We'd love to integrate with WooCommerce. Unfortunately their app store is
currently closed to new submissions, and has been for some time. As soon as
that changes we'll explore an integration there.

~~~
claudiulodro
You're in luck. It just opened up last week! :)

Here's everything you need to know:
[https://docs.woocommerce.com/document/marketplace-
overview/](https://docs.woocommerce.com/document/marketplace-overview/)

Shameless plug: Anyone else reading this that develops in the eCommerce space,
now's your chance to get in on the ground floor of the WooCommerce open
marketplace.

(Disclaimer: I work on WooCommerce)

~~~
Finbarr
Awesome - thanks for letting me know! Will check it out.

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vimarshk
Great Story!

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newscracker
If there's one thing that makes me highly suspicious and mistrusting of any
company, it's the absence of a pricing link right on the homepage. It reminds
me of "Contact Sales" schemes where the price is decided on how much can be
extracted from each customer. I'm not saying that Shogun falls in that
category, but putting a pricing link on the homepage would make it whole lot
easier for people to decide if it's for them or not. [1] Features and pricing
— both are important for decision making. Please don't force people to sign up
or search through help pages to find out how much it costs.

As of this moment, when I do a "Find on Page" and look for "pric" (just part
of "pricing"), I don't find anything. Whenever I get to such sites, I just
close the tab and move on.

[1]: [https://getshogun.com/](https://getshogun.com/)

~~~
farnsworthy
I agree in general, but that's not the case with these guys. Pick your
platform--first UI interaction--and the prices are right there.

