

An Honest Apology - centdev
http://shirls.me/post/41790389190/shirley-hornstein-no-more-lies

======
homosaur
I don't want to stake this girl up, but honestly, she should produce something
that anyone cares about or shut up and go away.

There's qualified people out there she basically stole from. Stole jobs that
should have been theirs, stole attention that could have been directed to
something legitimate...

You don't get to apologize for stuff like this and have anyone care, you only
get to overcome it. So until she has something to show us, I'd prefer not see
her around.

~~~
danilocampos
> Stole jobs that should have been theirs, stole attention that could have
> been directed to something legitimate...

You really hit the nail on the head here. Her pathological addiction to lies
deprived hard-working people of opportunities. And it's a blackhole situation
– had those opportunities gone to legitimate people, they could have advanced.

Instead, by sucking up all this value, Hornstein destroyed it. Everything she
touched had a taint to it. Because everything about her was built on lies,
everything she took, everything she accomplished, went nowhere. Good things
that could have grown people's businesses or careers instead evaporated
forever.

What a poison.

~~~
neumann_alfred
Anything she accomplished went nowhere? One has to be complete fucking career
whore to entertain that thought for a second, otherwise it's a non-sequitur;
anything she accomplished was accomplished, _period_ , and the only loss you
can complain about is that she can't stick it in her resume now, like someone
else could have done. Hence career whore, and I know this is going to be
killed or worse but I don't care. The fucking nerve of your post, really, to
call a person a poison without a second thought. The irony of it, actually.

You have NO idea where she is going. Fucking up and learning from it gives you
insights and even strengths you cannot have from not fucking up. Who knows,
she might one day help people in similar situations, whatever.

 _had those opportunities gone to legitimate people, they could have
advanced._

Right, and because of her, they are now stuck forever. Is that what you're
arguing? Because it has to be either that, or that "any penny matters, time is
money".. either way, this is a human talking about human stuff, what makes you
think you even are competent to reply? You could have used the time you used
to write that post to further your career, and now that moment evaporated
forever. Better get hustling.

~~~
joshguthrie
Thanks for your nice take on the situation, no "let's-stone-the-bitch-and-
lynch-her" or any other holier-than-thou comments.

I had a discussion just some hours ago about the same kind of person in France
(my frog says hi) and Entertainment. A young woman called Zahia Dehar, who
went from underage (17) escort-girl for national soccer players to the
Princess of her very own fairytale, working for Karl Lagerfeld, working with
renowned brands, getting a documentary about her coming soon,... And of
course, with all our morals and stuff, we'll be quick to judge her as "she's
just a whore, why care?", and still, she's now more popular than most of us.

"Don't hate the player, play the game."

Be it Zahia, Kim Kardashian, Shirley Hornstein,...aren't they just the female
versions of Frank Abagnale, or even a twisted (as in "I do stuff for me, not
for curiosity's sake") version our very own Kevin Mitnick? Like it or not,
these persons are "hacking" their way to fame. Do they use the right methods?
We're enclined to think "no" but it's a matter of personal view.

These three girls never stole anything. They cheated they way, yes: they used
the system, the system WE built. One used fake credentials and network because
some people value "who-you-know" more than "what-you-can-do", one went on to
have a show about her to get simple minds addicted to her private life and the
last one sold her body to make more money in her prime than most of us will do
in a lifetime.

Now what about us, are we accomplishing anything by wasting time here bitching
about it or are we just complaining that we didn't take those "opportunities"
ourselves?

~~~
danilocampos
> These three girls never stole anything.

...What are you talking about? She stole money from multiple people and
companies. She took someone's credit card _out of their hotel room_ and used
it for her own purposes.

Moreover, Abagnale went to prison. As he deserved to. He was a thief.

Just like Hornstein.

------
genwin
Forgive. Half of Americans think it's okay to imprison suspects for life
without evidence, to kill suspects and their families in drone strikes, and
many well-respected tech companies do all sorts of grievous harm. No
apologies. So maybe with that in mind we shouldn't judge this individual so
harshly.

~~~
rhizome
Exactly, and if you read the Betabeat article (linked in the TC article
above), her crimes were 99% social offenses. The whole thing reads like a
bunch of high school cheerleader bullshit. Moreso, the damage appears
exclusively limited to her own reputation.

~~~
danilocampos
She stole people's money and resources, dude. Hardly a social offense.

~~~
rhizome
"99%"

~~~
danilocampos
That's a completely baseless and arbitrary estimation. If I choose to quantify
her crimes in civil terms, I can say 99% of it was theft. Don't give her a
pass just because sometimes she _didn't_ steal. Thieves who are good liars are
dangerous indeed.

~~~
rhizome
She's not being prosecuted, and we all know people who have flaked on credit
cards.

~~~
danilocampos
No.

 _She physically removed a credit card from someone else's hotel room._ Read.

[http://betabeat.com/2012/08/shirley-hornstein-shirls-
credit-...](http://betabeat.com/2012/08/shirley-hornstein-shirls-credit-card-
fraud-records/)

~~~
rhizome
That's the no-prosecution part, the story also mentions that she flaked on her
own card(s). Regardless, the stories are focusing more on her deceptions.

------
purephase
Context: <http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/28/talented-shirley-hornstein/>

~~~
andrewcooke
huh, so why apologise now, 4 months later?

~~~
rhizome
As the post says, she's been going to therapy. I'm guessing this post is part
of that as a first step in being honest.

~~~
arthulia
Hmmm... What if she's not going to therapy?

~~~
rhizome
Then who gives an F? This is just a bunch of cheerleaders butthurt that
someone was going around saying they were friends with her, with the school
newspaper writers (TC/Betabeat) getting in on it because, hey, they want to be
friends with the cool kids too.

------
scarmig
So I'm honestly a bit confused here. She pretended to be friends with a bunch
of Silicon Valley celebrities through Photoshop, and people threw money at her
because of that, and people are mad at her because she was lying and wasting
their money?

It would be an incredibly boring story of overly rich people who should know
better being scammed, except insofar as it shows some unsavory aspects of how
Silicon Valley is set up.

~~~
mnicole
I'm confused as to how anyone could think those weren't Photoshopped to begin
with, they're pretty awful.

------
heyadam
"I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe
you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

~~~
speeder
Heh, good quote.

I dumped a girlfriend about two months ago for this reason, after finding
several lies (for example, I searched for resumes she had sent, and found
three different age of births... why lie your age of birth on a resume?) I
figured that there are no way to know what parts are true and what are not, I
found no pattern, it is impossible to know when she lies and when she don't.

And after reading about Ms. Shirley, I felt like I was reading about my ex-
girlfriend (including stuff in the comments, like people that DO like her, but
did not knew she lied so much), I am upset that I cannot believe her anymore.
I am upset that I don't know if the good moments were actually good, or
acting. If the praises were sincere, or manipulation...

~~~
mdellabitta
Why ever put your date of birth on a resume? It just opens you up to
discrimination.

~~~
wahnfrieden
It's customary and expected in some countries.

~~~
speeder
Yes, I am from Brazil, here you are supposed to place many personal details on
your resume (even if you are married or not).

I am not sure why though.

------
bitcrusher
It's terribly sad that even in her process of reformation, she is still
seeking approval and validation externally. The only person she needs to prove
her worth to is herself.

------
guard-of-terra
I don't understand why would anyone care or make a big deal of it.

There's no difference between someone with a fake photo near Justin Timberlake
and a real one. It's not an achivement. It's not a sign of success. It's
nothing. The whole idea of "startup cred" gained by having photos of you
around important people disgusts me to no end.

Fruitful interactions matter. Posing in photos does not. If you infer
something from someone being on a same photo with someone else, you are the
problem, not Shirley.

I see this as a sign that most people in the "Scene" are empty extroverts too
busy making impressions to make any real things happen. So you measure each
other by a number of "important" people you talked to.

~~~
guard-of-terra
To paraphrase: There's a russian word тусовщик denoting a person who hangs
around some people famous for what they do (artists, musicians, writers),
knows all their gossip, has a load of stories featuring famous people, but
does nothing else. Does nothing creative. Does nothing, just kind of hangs up.

And that's a totally not a good thing. It's okay for teenagers if they're
lucky, but grown up тусовщик is a kind of miserable lifestyle.

And now you propose there are good, real тусовщики and bad, fake тусовщики.
This is extremelly strange to my ear. It's like having fake alcoholics blamed
for being fake.

------
dmschulman
I truly despise that attitude of "it worked for me for so long, why not keep
doing it?". Pushing boundaries is one thing, maybe "hacking" your way to a
single opportunity can be viewed in the light of experimentation, but being a
serial deceiver is no way to live a life.

I hesitate something like that to be instantly apologized away. We all fall
down, we all make mistakes. Learn from those mistakes instead of trying to
just get by.

~~~
neumann_alfred
_I hesitate something like that to be instantly apologized away. We all fall
down, we all make mistakes. Learn from those mistakes instead of trying to
just get by._

Have you even read the article? Here's a quote:

"please know this is not an excuse — because there is none."

and

"My focus now is to embrace my true self, seek forgiveness from those I have
wronged, repair any outstanding damage, and learn to speak honestly from my
heart. I hope I get the chance to prove this to you."

Doesn't sound like someone is looking for an easy way to sweep this under the
carpet to me, at all. So some reactions here are kinda curious to me. I mean
sure, I don't care either: I wasn't emotionally involved with the fact that
this stranger lied to other strangers, so I don't care about the apology
either, it's just not something that concerns me. But I assume it didn't
really affect anyone who is now being a hard-ass about her public apology,
either.

 _being a serial deceiver is no way to live a life._

You say that as if that is not exactly what she wrote, too. wtf?

I say good for her, and good luck. Having had relationships with chronical
liars, I often thought, as much as all of that sucked and hurt, that I would
MUCH rather be lied to, than be addicted to telling lies, because I'm sure
that hurts, too.

You know, I'd even go so far to say that usually(!), it hurts the chronical
liar much more than the people they're lying to, especially when it's to be
loved or respected; they really _do_ want that respect, so desperately so that
they're willing to lie for it; but what is respected is an image they made up,
a lie they told. To me this is like a junkie robbing someone; yeah, that
sucks, but being a junkie sucks so much more.

Mind you, I am merely arguing for compassion, not justifying lies. But one
thing is sure, unless you were directly affected by any of this, it's simply
not your place to accept or reject this apology.

~~~
dmschulman
I never knew about Shirley until I read her apology today, though I have
encountered many chronic liars over the course of time.

It would be wrong of me to judge someone I've never met before, though I
believe her behavior speaks for itself. She may very well be seeking to change
her behaviors, but given the reason for which she felt it necessary to write
an apology, I will wait to see what Shirley is up to in a few months.

To repent is one thing, but to demonstrate positive steps forward is another.

~~~
glimmung
It'd be good to see both, but it all takes time.

I wish her well.

------
norswap
This is interesting to me for one reason: the need to apologize.

My, perhaps heavily biased, impression is that this is a typical American
thing. I mean, what are the odds that all those people who did bad things (or
things considered as bad) feel truly sorry? E.g. Lance Armstrong.

Why not be honest and say "I lied"/"I cheated", "deal with it"? That would
garner more respect from me than an apology that is going to sound false.

------
surlyadopter
Narcissists don't feel guilt, only shame

From TLP:

"But I want to change, I want to get better."

Narcissism says: I, me. Never you, them.

No one ever asks me, ever, "I think I'm a narcissist, and I'm worried I'm
hurting my family." No one ever asks me, "I think I'm too controlling, I'm
trying to subtly manipulate my girlfriend not to notice other people's
qualities." No one ever, ever, ever asks me, "I am often consumed by
irrational rage, I am unable to feel guilt, only shame, and when I am caught,
found out, exposed, I try to break down those around me so they feel worse
than I do, so they are too miserable to look down on me."

If that was what they asked, I would tell them them change is within grasp.
But.

"So all is lost?"

Describe yourself: your traits, qualities, both good and bad.

Do not use the word "am."

Practice this."

\-
[http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2009/01/can_narcissism_be_cur...](http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2009/01/can_narcissism_be_cured.html)

~~~
neumann_alfred
Armchair psychiatrists without any reading comprehension whatsoever on the
other hand, those have all the answers..

