
Devuan Jessie 1.0.0 stable release candidate - liuw
https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20170421.161009.6c644d3a.en.html
======
helb
"Devuan Jessie 1.0 RC" on HN yesterday:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14167447](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14167447)

For those who forgot what Devuan was, like i did – basically a Debian fork
without systemd.

~~~
nextos
For systemd-less distros, I really like GuixSD. A functional approach & Scheme
for all stuff is a big plus.

~~~
zzalpha
_A functional approach & Scheme for all stuff is a big plus._

I'll bite.

Why?

Being "functional" and using "Scheme for all stuff" is just a means to an end.
What value does it bring me as a user or administrator?

Because I can think of at least one obvious downside: Scheme has no mainstream
adoption. So they've picked a niche language (yes Scheme is niche) that users
now have to learn.

So the value it brings, in terms of features, maintainability, etc, better be
significant in order to justify that pain.

And I'm talking real value, not the value of intellectual rigor or functional
purity. I'm talking about actual, real, tangible features that can't be gotten
anywhere else.

~~~
nextos
Functional administration, not just implementation.

Most sysadmin operations are non-destructive. This has _huge_ implications.

~~~
zzalpha
Care to elaborate? This is a very vague statement taken in its own, and the
GuixSD website does no better at explaining their real life value prop...

~~~
nextos
All system configuration and packages are described declaratively. You can
roll back and forth between system definitions.

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e12e
"Devuan can be adopted as a flawless upgrade path from both Debian Wheezy and
Jessie."

That _is_ nice, to have a supported path of simply add sources, signing keys
and apt-get dist-upgrade. Impressive work.

I'm personally not convinced there's a viable near future for Linux without
systemd (not counting the mess that is android (as a potential workstation /
server distro) - I think Debian/kFreeBSD is a better path.

But I'd love to be wrong.

~~~
Mediterraneo10
> I think Debian/kFreeBSD is a better path.

Is there an assumption that once Debian decided to go with systemd and an
increasing amount of Debian standard software depended on it, the kFreeBSD
port will have to be given up at some point?

~~~
e12e
Well, that's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it, is that when
"all of Linux" went with systemd, there'd be little real interest and help
upstream in various packages to port to "linux-without-systemd" \- but as long
as open Solaris (by any name), free-, net- and openbsd exist - there's likely
to be some help with porting to _a_ world without systemd.

~~~
petre
What makes is so hard to write init scripts or run scripts or unit files for a
daemon?

Of course, when you irreversibly mess things up by adding a hard dbus
dependency, integrate udev in the init system, put systemd-resolved on
127.0.0.53 everywhere plus tons of other mess, then of course it's hard to
"port" everything because you messed everything up so badly that it only works
with your init system now.

~~~
e12e
Yeah, it's not the init scripts that are a problem, it's everything else, like
keeping gnome working without logind etc.

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MilnerRoute
Here's the official web page for that announcement at Devuan.org.

[https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/stable-candidate-
announce-...](https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/stable-candidate-
announce-042017)

------
JdeBP
Duplicates
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14171119](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14171119)
, posted earlier by Denis Roio .

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gareim
I never understand when OSS projects give themselves names that will never go
mainstream. If the goal is semi-popularity at least, then "Devuan" will not
work.

~~~
duskwuff
As I noted on another thread, the choice to call their initial release
"Jessie" is also bizarre -- that's the same as the release name for Debian
8.0, which was released in 2015. Between that and the project name (which is a
typo of "Debian"), it all makes the project look like it's _intentionally_
trying to create confusion between itself and Debian, rather than trying to
succeed on its own merits.

~~~
nextime
The name "devuan" has been selected cause it's a merge of "debian" and "VUA"
where "VUA" stand for "Veteran Unix Admins", the name of the group that
started the fork.

It has to be pronounced as this:
[http://danex.nexlab.it/devuan.wav](http://danex.nexlab.it/devuan.wav)

The first release has been named "jessie" cause it's a 1:1 replacement of
debian jessie, and for our luck jessie is also a name of a minor planet, so,
it match our nomenclature and reflect that is a very close path to switch from
debian jessie, as Devuan consider itself the "real" continuation of debian
after wheezy.

