
How some cities became rat-free zones - tomohawk
http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20190517-how-these-cities-became-rat-free-zones
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harimau777
Generally I think that we should manage animals in the most humane way
possible (e.g. we likely cannot have lions roaming around cities but that
doesn't mean we should just wipe them out).

However, it seems like rodents are a difficult case: As I understand it the
basic evolutionary strategy for most rodents is "breed prolifically in order
to offset a very high mortality rate". In that case it seems like
extermination is effectively the "natural" way to manage them. I don't think
it would be possible to round up rats and put them in shelters the way that we
do stray dogs.

What alternative method of managing rodent populations would you advocate?

~~~
geowwy
It's worth mentioning that cities traditionally were shared with free-roaming
cats and dogs. It's only recently that we've taken them off the streets.

I'm often dismissed as some kind of a troll for advocating the reintroduction
of street animals in my local town. But cats and dogs were instrumental in the
development of civilisation. They control vermin, they deter wild animals,
they reduce food waste, they act as an alert against violent antisocial
behaviour.

We need to get rid of the idea that cities belong only to humans. Many animals
belong in city ecosystems.

~~~
mikro2nd
In principle I'd agree, but there is one small problem. They shit everywhere,
and that becomes a problem in its own right.

iirc Victorian London had to find a way to dispose of something like 4 tons of
horseshit _a day_. And horseshit is easy -- it makes brilliant compost. Cat
and dog shit less so. Much less.

~~~
maeln
I never thought about this. I don't know how Istanbul manage it, there is a
lot of cats but the city is quite clean for a city that size (but cleanness is
also quite important in Turkish culture).

~~~
Xylakant
Cats are solitary hunters that rely on their prey not being aware of their
presence. They generally don't shit on the street. They dig a hole and close
it properly. Cats usually sniff multiple times to see if there's any trace.
They're much more likely to dig up playgrounds and litter there.

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thrower123
If you have a varmint problem of some type, I would highly recommend using
spring traps over putting out DCON or other poison. If you care about killing
them kindly, a big snap that crushes their skull or breaks their neck is
better than slowly dying of poison.

More importantly, if they die in your trap, you know where they are and can
clean them up easily. There are few things more disgusting than finding a rat
or a squirrel that has crawled off into some tight space to die, and sat there
long enough in the heat for the flies and maggots to get at the corpse

~~~
Jill_the_Pill
Also, have a thought for the animals up the food chain, poisoned by poisoned
rats and mice.

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lostlogin
> Farms closest to the border are checked twice a year and adjacent sites
> once. It sounds like a lot, says Merrill

That sounds like very little, and yet they have proven results. I know people
who run traps and check/reset them weekly over 10+km lines. That sounds like a
lot, and yet it’s hardly denting the population. Unfortunately it’s 1080
poison that is needed. New Zealand has a vague goal of becoming pest free.
This is going to be hard, and cats don’t fit with this. Perhaps dogs don’t
either?

~~~
goodcanadian
Rats can't survive outside in the winter in Alberta (or Saskatchewan). They
need human buildings. The distances between farmsteads are large, at least
from a rat's point of view. There is therefore a relatively large time
constant between jumps from one farm to the next. Checking a couple of times
per year is usually sufficient.

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dominotw
Fuck, I live in rat heaven- chicago. One sneaked into my bedroom last polar
votex. Never knew my sweetest gentle cat had such vicious killer instinct.
Flew straight out from the kitchen table and bit its neck and then proceeded
to torment the poor thing for next 1/2 hr before I rescued the rat, picked it
up with towels(blood still dripping) and threw it in garbage bin outside.

I decided that night to move the fuck out of chicago and will be moving out
end of this year.

~~~
selectodude
I’m curious where you plan to live that doesn’t have any rats.

~~~
Iv
I lived in Paris, Berlin, Tokyo. Never saw any rat where humans would go. I
think I spot mice in Paris in the streets once.

~~~
tzs
They are pretty good at avoiding being seen, but they are around. Paris has
more rats than humans, and Berlin has about 2/3 as many rats as humans. I
haven't need good estimates for Tokyo's rat population, but there are about
5000 reports of human encounters a year (down from 20k/year in 2001).

~~~
executesorder66
> I haven't need good estimates for Tokyo's rat population, but there are
> about 5000 reports of human encounters a year (down from 20k/year in 2001).

What do you mean reports of human encounters?

I was in Tokyo a few weeks ago, and I saw some rats. I didn't report it,
because who gives a shit if you see a rat in a city? I've seen rats in every
city I've ever been in.

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oeuviz
Another recent rodent killing article can be found here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20019487](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20019487)

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781
Disgusting animal abuse... There is place for everybody in our cities.

Meanwhile in more civilized places:

> _Fat rat stuck in manhole rescued by firefighters in Germany_

[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/27/fat-rat-
stuck-...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/27/fat-rat-stuck-in-
manhole-rescued-by-firefighters-in-germany)

~~~
blattimwind
Every German city has a program to deploy rat poision once or twice per year

~~~
forgotmypw
Rat poison that travels and ends up in our own air, food, and water, and is
just as effective on us as it is on them.

~~~
Joakal
If it was as effective, title would be: Cities became human free.

~~~
forgotmypw
It does cause a lot of health issues.

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burfog
My dad eats the stuff.

Seriously, rat poison is an FDA-approved medication that is used to prevent
blood clots. The dose makes the poison. If you get too much, you become a
hemophiliac.

So it's fine when diluted.

~~~
forgotmypw
Are you suggesting that everyone should be taking this FDA-approved medication
that prevents blood clots?

