
Jason Calacanis' response to Aaron Wall - hwijaya
http://calacanis.com/2010/01/31/my-response-to-the-wonderful-seo-aaronwall-whos-been-giving-us-great-free-advice/
======
jeff18
I like how on Hacker News, Calacanis was getting his throat bitten out by
Aaron and the community, while he was trying to feebly defend himself and do
damage control.

However, when you read this article, it makes them sound like great friends,
and it reads as if Mahalo is this awesome little indie site that wants the
community to help. I especially love the comment by Dorfman reinforcing how he
was ecstatic about Aaron's advice and had a great time noodling it over.

It's like if your dog takes a dump on the sidewalk and, like usual, you don't
pick it up. When someone [and an angry mob of your peers] makes a big enough
stink about it, you argue and argue, until it degenerates into a fiasco.
Finally, you write on your blog, "Thanks for helping us be even better,
buddies! You guys are awesome! Gonna think about picking up the shit real
soon. We are all so excited about what you guys said! Let's grab sushi, ya?"

There's a lot of ways to lie, and I've just learned a new one. It would be
cool to see an apology with an accurate representation of the scandal.

~~~
dschobel
Calacanis is obviously a smart guy and a master of controlling the perception.

He may get away with the ignorance alibi just yet because the SEO aspect is
technically nuanced enough that most people won't understand it.

~~~
bobbyi
If he were a master of controlling perception we would not be having this
discussion.

~~~
dschobel
We are 1% of 1% of the people he cares about.

~~~
jasonmcalacanis
I care about you.

------
elsewhen
in my opinion, the slimiest thing that mahalo is doing is scraping content and
then nofollowing the attribution links. nofollow was designed for outgoing
links that a publisher cannot vouch for - ie links in blog discussions.

but mahalo is nofollowing attribution links to content that THEY have decided
to scrape.

jason is conflating two things when he says "Do you think we should remove
nofollow from our links? we added this to avoid the problem of SEOs coming in
and turning Mahalo into a link farm"

you can nofollow links created by users but you should not nofollow links to
content that YOU decided was worthy of inclusion on your site.

it seems very clear to me, that this guy is playing dumb.

~~~
petercooper
_you can nofollow links created by users but you should not nofollow links to
content that YOU decided was worthy of inclusion on your site._

To be fair, he can do whatever he likes - as long as it's legal. Aside from
the murky spammy waters Mahalo seems to wading in, the "nofollow" is merely a
hack devised by Google (that's also acknowledged by Bing and poorly
implemented by Yahoo).

Jason can put anything legal on his pages with no qualms or being a "scammer"
or whatever. It's Google's job, then, to remove Mahalo from the index if it
doesn't like his "content." The ethical argument should be around this
scraping, not the use of a proprietary hack Google came up with to get around
an indexing problem they couldn't be arsed to solve properly.

~~~
elsewhen
i agree that mahalo is not doing anything illegal, the simple point is their
actions are unethical.

scraping content is allowed under fair use, but going the extra step of
nofollowing is an intentional attempt to use someone else's content without
passing pagerank.

it is a deliberate attempt to outrank the sources. this is pretty much akin to
a mid-level manager taking credit for the work performed by one of the people
that reports to him. illegal? no. lame and worthy of being called out for?
yes.

i also agree with you that the real onus is on google to not rank sites that
engage in this tactic.

~~~
petercooper
_it is a deliberate attempt to outrank the sources._

Of course it is. That's like saying Obama's presidential campaign was a
deliberate attempt to win the election.

The issue, though, is that Mahalo could not rank higher than original sources
unless Google is doing a shoddy job of indexing the Web. Just because Mahalo
has a few good pages doesn't mean the rest should automatically be trusted.
Google need to figure that out - and fast.

~~~
aaronwall
This domain authority exploit is exactly what many business models are being
built on...Demand Media, Mahalo, Aol, etc etc etc

------
bonsaitree
Wow. Just...wow. Ugh.

Given all the posts on this forum, and even his direct participation in the
discussion, I honestly thought that he would've recognized both the technical
problems in Mahalo's content & linking stratagems as well as the hollow tenor
of his words.

Sadly, no. More duplicitous ignorance and classic "PR framing" piece straight
out Political Communications 101.

1\. Couch direct criticism as "feedback". Do not directly apologize for any
perceived or actual misdeeds as that is seen as an admission of purposeful
dis-service and guilt.

2\. Enumerate an ill-defined set of seemingly concrete, but very porous,
actions to be enacted within an indefinite time frame. This overtly defines a
'scorecard', albeit one without any measurable boundaries for future
compliance. In other words, the Overton Window is wide open.

3\. Within the context of the response, inject positive spin on (any)
tangentially related side-issue to serve as a defensive soundbite reservoir
against any possible pointed questions within the limited time-windows of
future radio and t.v. media interviews.

4\. Make offers to "work more closely" with the opposite party, but
exclusively on your turf/terms while (un)subtly highlighting your strengths
and their weaknesses to continue business as usual. In this case, Aaron's
individual "free" time & attention versus their "paid" team of developers.

5\. Release "off-cycle" (e.g. late Friday, holidays, weekend) and in a forum
where you can have as much control as possible in 'shaping the break' of the
story as it makes its way through the media ecosystem.

This is just sad from every angle and, quite honestly, bumming me out. I wish
I hadn't clicked on Hacker News this afternoon.

------
dangrossman
The tone of Jason's responses to Aaron is so different than his normal
writing. It doesn't feel authentic Calacanis.

~~~
zaidf
Agree...yet, it's a catch-22 for him. If he is his typical self, he gets
attacked for trying to make it a joke(as he makes a lot of things). If he is
serious(as he _appears_ to be now), he is inauthentic.

------
aditya
Sounds like good damage control now.

First he made fun of Aaron and even this post almost comes off as sarcasm
(although who knows if Jason's going to stick to his word, so it may very well
be sarcasm). But the comment on the blog makes it seem like people at Mahalo
actually care about not being branded as a content-less SEO cesspool.

Kudos to Aaron for making Mahalo right its wrongs!

~~~
vaksel
Don't give kudos, till you see results.

~~~
aditya
Surely, Aaron deserves kudos for atleast bringing the issue to light and
causing trouble!

~~~
vaksel
oh yeah, but I mean wait on seeing the changes actually take place.

------
whye
I wanted to learn a little more about the company, so I clicked on the "about
Mahalo" link at the bottom of most pages.

<http://www.mahalo.com/mahalo>

How many other web companies serve ads on their "about" page? It seems like a
really odd thing to do.

------
ErrantX
I thought Aaron went a bit personal in the last rant; but if it works (and was
supposed to work rather than just be malicious) then fair enough.

Lots of ifs though.

~~~
pkaler
Agreed. I wish Aaron Wall had not went personal in his last post. Ironically,
Aaron Wall called out Calacanis the way Calacanis usually frames debates.

I am actually learning a ton about SEO from this debate. I wish both sides
would frame the debate with just the facts and keep the name calling out of
it. (IIRC, Calacanis called out SEOs a couple years back.)

