
Electric race cars that look like Formula 1, but are eerily quiet - wanderer42
http://qz.com/657578/these-electric-race-cars-look-just-like-formula-1-but-are-eerily-quiet/
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jasonwatkinspdx
I think this has a lot of promise, but I think they haven't quite dialed in
the format.

I think they should focus on battery swapping as the way to deal with limited
energy capacity. It makes for a nice spectacle watching pit crews do their
thing. Swapping out an entire car and driver is just boring. Likewise the
constraint to be able to swap the battery packs quickly will necessarily lead
to the cars looking a bit different than F1. I think that also would be an
improvement and help them differentiate as more than just "like F1 but more
quiet and slow."

The ability to run events almost anywhere is a huge opportunity. It could make
for some really compelling video footage in some awesome locations, if they
can negotiate it.

Courses should focus on short sections and tight turns. Acceleration is where
electric motors are most exciting, and keeping top speeds below the 200mph+ of
F1 would let them run smaller events with less safety buffer space. Let people
get up close and see the cars rocket out of each corner.

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kayoone
I went to the Formula E Grandprix in Berlin last year. I am a pretty big F1
fan, watching most of the races and know whats going on but Forumla-E was
actually pretty bland and boring, i believe mostly due to missing any kind of
engine noise. It kind of feels like very fast soapboxes racing around (not
nearly as fast as F1 though).

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framioco
Just wondering, have you ever attended a F1 race in person? I ask because
after watching WTCC for a long time, when I attended my first live race I
found it pretty boring as well. Watching on TV allows me to follow the race,
and I missed that a lot when attending live.

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manojlds
This is in response to the video saying that the fans love the cars since they
are almost quiet.

When I went to my first F1 grand prix, I could hear the sound of the cars from
the parking lot. As a huge fan, that gave me goosebumps and got me excited.
The sound is a huge plus, and all fans I know love it. Yeah you need to plug
your ears when you are in the stands, but I would take that over the sound of
these electric cars.

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BillinghamJ
I went to the last season's final race in London. They are indeed
significantly quieter than Formula 1 cars, but they're by no means silent.
It's more of a not-uncomfortably-loud whining noise as the cars pass you.

Formula E has been pretty exciting to me since I first heard about it 2 years
ago. I wonder if it will really ever become a mainstream event though - as
Formula 1 and similar gradually involve more EV elements

Due to the relative quietness of the cars, the Formula E events usually
involve background music, sometimes live from a DJ, usually electronic style
music.

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zimpenfish
I watched the Battersea Park race on TV and I can't see it becoming popular -
the mid-race car change (which admittedly may well disappear as technology
evolves) was laughable and the whole "fan boost"[1] thing made even some of
Bernie's more ridiculous suggestions seem sane.

[1] Fans vote on a driver who gets an extra speed boost in a race. Because
Reasons.

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willvarfar
In the old horse days in Europe (and presumably everywhere else too) lots of
very nice houses were built next to roads. Nowadays as I drive past I pity
them and the ugly sound-deflecting fencing and berms they have to invest in to
make them habitable. I look forward to quieter cars rejuvenating these old
houses.

UPDATE: so my hopes are dashed :(

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glaberficken
This is a common misconception about roadway noise pollution.

Electric Vehicles will still generate a fair amount of road noise pollution.
There will be important improvements for city quality of life, mostly in
reductions in the sub 35kmh acceleration/deceleration moments. But for highway
speeds the reductions will not be that big.

Check this interesting wikipedia article for reference.

Linking to the part that lists the basic variables that affect Roadway Noise:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadway_noise#Description_of_b...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadway_noise#Description_of_basic_variables)

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mikeash
I don't think it's entirely a misconception. Yes, some people mistakenly think
that an all-EV world will be totally silent, and it won't, but the noise
reduction is still huge. In most situations, the average is much less
important than the maximum, so the fact that typical noise from modern cars is
mostly tires and air is irrelevant. Trucks, motorcycles, and performance cars
are what make up the bulk of the annoying noise, and EV versions of those
would help a _lot_.

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glaberficken
True, it would help a lot in city centers where tipically cars have to
accelerate from a stop at lights, but not on highway style roads.

~~~
mikeash
Even there, the constant drone of tires is far more tolerable than the
occasional blatttt of sports bikes or the rumble of a tractor trailer.

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invernomut0
These cars just look like some kind of Formula cars but there are some of
important differences: \- first for now all cars are more or less the same
(there's no research competition behind motors or aerodynamics like in WEC or
F1) \- the race rules are not so meaningful to me: changing cars in the middle
of the race doesn't add to the fun, why not doing 2 shorter races? I see it as
a minor low budget futurist racing series to exploit the "electric motors"
trend in automotive.

Real investments go to WEC for technology or to F1 for PR and brand strength.

Things might change when teams will have the chance to customize their cars
more (mainly motor, batteries)

Edit: they race in very nice locations anyway, that's the only cool thing
about the series :p

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pnewman3
This was true in the first season, but in season two the motor regulations
opened up. Teams are now allowed to choose their own motor and gearbox, and
there are (I think) about six variations in use. Packaging differences between
the motors has led to some variation in rear suspension as well.

Aero, battery, and tires remain standard for all the teams.

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jdfellow
Tangential, but I keep thinking that the moment EVs have finally "made" it
will be when they can compete in endurance races like 24 Hours of Le Mans
against IC vehicles.

The fact these Formula E races are considered quite enough to be run in
populated areas is pretty sweet though. I've never attended a Motorsport event
before, partly because I'd have to make a big effort to go out of town to
watch any, instead of just staying local.

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alex_duf
Any excuse to get better battery performance is good enough to me :)

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firimari
To answer the supposition at the end of the article, they're already working
on driverless racecars.
[http://selfracingcars.com/](http://selfracingcars.com/)

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agumonkey
At what point will we be discussing humanless humanity ?

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elcapitan
Wait, isn't that what we are working on anyway?

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agumonkey
Funny paradox isn't it ? should we stop before it's too late ? or maybe we
plan to rely on a climate catastrophe to set progress back to the Jurassic
era.

~~~
elcapitan
Maybe these robots will be smart enough to understand how great humanity was
and teach us.

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NDizzle
I couldn't really tell if that first kid liked cars or not. He certainly
doesn't look that interested.

Here's how you get a kid to get interested in this kind of event. First, buy
good earphones. Super important - it's incredibly loud. Next, go to a top fuel
event.

If you are grown and haven't been to a top fuel drag race, I HIGHLY recommend
you try it once. Once is enough to figure it out.

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numlocked
Are Formula E cars geared? Electric engines can deliver the same optimal
torque throughout the RPM range, so is shifting involved? That's obviously an
important part of the F1 drivers' skillset (especially during starts) so I'm
curious if they just have work the brake and accelerator or also worry about
gear changes.

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TD-Linux
Electric motors are usually torque limited (especially modern inverter driven
ones), so they have a constant maximum torque throughout their speed range.
However, this means that at higher speeds, they are able to deliver more
power, so gearing is actually beneficial. Formula E cars have 5 gears.

There is a lot of work done to change the performance - ideally you'd actually
not want flat torque, but high torque at low speed and lower at high speed to
reduce the need for switchable gears. This is done with techniques like flux
weakening.

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goshx
I watched Formula E in Florida and it sounded like a race of blenders :)

I also watched Formula 1 and I loved the sound of the engines. You can tell by
the sound what the top engines are. It is just a whole other experience. You
hear the car coming before you see it and that gets you excited.

I'm probably biased, being a Formula 1 fan for over 25 years.

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netsin
Cars are limited to just 200hp during races, and FIA has blocked the teams
from innovating much. It's almost as if it pains them to have electric racers
that they made them bad on purpose. These things accelerate slower than a
tesla family SUV.

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k-mcgrady
Quiet is not a great selling point. One of the big complaints in F1 right now
is that the current spec engines are too quiet. The noise contributes hugely
to the atmosphere and sense of speed.

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usrusr
Great selling point, except when you happen to live within earshot of a
racetrack. Which is literally a radius of miles, easily enough to house half a
million when you put the track in a densely populated area (which is
increasingly rare, but still exists).

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ericcumbee
except most of those are 1 weekend a year (Temp Street Courses). the only
exception I can think of for that is Imola.

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grimmdude
It would be interesting to see this done with drag races. Those cars are loud!

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S_A_P
I would call it refreshingly quiet. I am not a fan of loud ICE engines in any
vehicle. I do worry about the quietness of these vehicles and sight impaired
pedestrians and distracted pedestrians. I wonder if there will be an
adjustment period where car-pedestrian impacts increase until cars are
autonomous enough to stop for those who step in front of a car, and/ or
pedestrians realized they cannot rely on their hearing to monitor traffic at
crosswalks.

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Raphmedia
> or pedestrians realized they cannot rely on their hearing to monitor traffic
> at crosswalks.

It's time enough. Unless you are blind, you should look both way before
crossing. You shouldn't jaywalk anyway.

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Symbiote
You have that the wrong way around.

The car driver should be looking before proceeding, and should be driving slow
enough to stop before any pedestrian.

Yes, that may mean driving through a residential area at 15 km/h. (Or even
10km/h: [1])

[1]
[https://collegegreensharedspace.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/...](https://collegegreensharedspace.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/home-
zone-02.jpg)

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mikeash
You both have it wrong. Both cars and pedestrians must remain alert and look
carefully for the other. Anything less than that gets people killed
unnecessarily. Trying to pin it on one or the other is just arguing over who
should pay for the headstone.

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Symbiote
Children can't look as well as adults can, and adults make mistakes.

The responsibility lies with the one vastly increasing the danger.

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mikeash
I'm not talking about responsibility, I'm talking about what people need to do
in order to increase the odds that everybody involved can die in bed.
Responsibility is just the question of who pays for the funeral.

