
I Can’t Afford a Bachelor’s Degree, So I’m Making My Own - Michael-XCIX
http://blog.alyxandria.org/post/89703880248/i-cant-afford-a-bachelors-degree-so-im-making-my
======
alphaoverlord
This blog post seems like a jumble of ideas that are neither consistent or
connected.

It starts with colleges should be more than job training centers, then ends
with trying to create an accreditation process to prove value to external
entities (of which I assume employers are a big part?).

It mentions the high cost of education, then describes how his current options
are lacking because the number of classes in each major is limited.

He talks about how administrators are unnecessary, then suggests a similarly
labor intensive accreditation system that requires experts, committees and
other logistics that requires significant manpower and time/energy.

There are many flaws with the educational system, of which convenience, rigor,
equality, and cost are a few the OP mentions, however his solution doesn't
seem to solve many of the challenges he mentions. I doubt that accreditation
is a major cost to running a university - there are simply many other market
forces (wanting facilities, a good football team, strong researchers that
might not put teaching first) that causes the cost/benefit relationship to be
the status quo. He finds it unconscionable that adjunct faculty don't make
enough money, then hopes to solve it with a free market - where honestly the
things he values might not be the things many others value. He wants rigor -
then critiques current accreditation processes that largely does what he
suggests.

Each of the major MOOCs already are trying to accredite/build reputation/be
rigorous. What OP is essentially doing is describing the idea of Udacity,
Coursera, etc without the technical backend, the users to attract such a
marketplace, connections, support, or actually being able to do a MOOC.

~~~
ChuckMcM
Considering that it is their first degree, I made the possible inaccurate
assumption that this person was just getting out of the US equivalent of high
school. My thoughts at that age were pretty jumbled too.

Many of my peers didn't really have any idea why they were in college until
maybe their third year. It wasn't until they had the benefit of having gone
through such a program and looked back on it to appreciate what it was that it
was and how it affected them.

My sister asked once why I considered college graduation a 'big deal' and not
high school graduation. My response is that graduating from college is the
first thing you can do where it's reasonably hard, takes a multi-year effort,
and is completely optional. It is, for me, a signal that someone has decided
to pursue something through to the end, and to do so with the full knowledge
that not doing so is also a valid path. It is, for me, the kinds of things
that adults do, and kids don't do.

~~~
ap22213
"...graduating from college is the first thing you can do where it's
reasonably hard, takes a multi-year effort, and is completely optional...a
signal that someone has decided to pursue something through to the end..."

I see this point-of-view a lot, and it is certainly the conventional wisdom.
But, for a moment, let's abandon this belief and explore other perspectives.

What if college isn't a demonstration of tenacity or natural ability? Instead,
what if education is just a game that everyone is forced to play at an early
age, and what if advanced-degree seekers are those who have learned to enjoy
playing the game? (Or, have been forced to play, because of economic reasons)

I certainly can buy that.

For instance, I know a lot of people with advanced degrees, and they generally
fit into 3 buckets: 1) people who were expected to get an advanced degree
because their parents had them, 2) people who enjoy playing games and winning
external validation, 3) people who have an innate obsession with some aspect
of knowledge. (BTW - I think the true scholars are category 3.)

What if people who win at education are just people who are naturally
competitive, like being bounded by rules, are good at min-max game play, and
who ultimately are driven by praise?

Certainly, those types of people would be excellent candidates for the
corporation. But, are they also good candidates for being citizens or
Humanity, in general?

And, what are other perspectives? I am just a curious person who happens to
have a general dislike of conventional wisdom.

~~~
chasing
> For instance, I know a lot of people with advanced degrees, and they
> generally fit into 3 buckets: 1) people who were expected to get an advanced
> degree because their parents had them, 2) people who enjoy playing games and
> winning external validation, 3) people who have an innate obsession with
> some aspect of knowledge. (BTW - I think the true scholars are category 3.)

This is reductionist nonsense. Please. People get advanced degrees for a
million reasons.

> What if people who win at education are just people who are naturally
> competitive, like being bounded by rules, are good at min-max game play, and
> who ultimately are driven by praise?

You can replace "education" with damned near anything in this sentence.
"Business." "Basketball." "Super Smash Brothers Brawl." "Terrorism." Which is
a sign that it's an asinine point.

~~~
ap22213
I'm sorry that someone stating their thoughts can so easily unleash your
spite.

~~~
chasing
No spite! I harbor no ill will. I just thought they weren't very good points.
And I tried to explain why.

------
WildUtah
Opening an accrediting agency is the wrong first move. There's lots of space
to work within the system that's already being opened up to you easily and
cheaply.

Try these two accredited schools that will award degrees entirely by
examination, remote classes, independent study, project-based learning, and
other proven study that matches a rigorous college program:

[http://www.wgu.edu](http://www.wgu.edu)

[http://www.excelsior.edu](http://www.excelsior.edu)

Excelsior is a traditional remote-degree program with lots of help to find you
the right courses and get credit for them. Western Governors is new, online,
and more experimental. Either one can both help you find ways to learn and get
you the sheepskin bureaucrats need to hire you.

And they'll both handle all the accrediting for you.

~~~
jelloPuddin
Just looking briefly at excelsior, they don't even have a true CS degree. It
looks like mostly IT, network admin, and technician kind of stuff. I don't
think this really fulfills the need he was discussing.

~~~
pdxandi
I just filled out the tuition estimator, and for an undergraduate degree in
Electrical Engineering Tech (not sure what "Tech" means), it costs almost $67k
for four years. I haven't looked into online education before, but that just
seems outrageous. I graduated 10 years ago from a public university with an EE
degree and it cost me $17k for four years. I realize college tuition has
skyrocketed, but I see no rational reason a similar degree should cost anymore
today than what I paid 10 years ago, inflation adjusted. I'm really just
shocked and saddened at the current state of secondary education.

~~~
patrickyeon
"Tech" means technician. Generally they do the things that need some
understanding of electronics, but not full-on "Engineer" knowledge/skillset.
It might be anything from assembly, test, troubleshoot, characterize,
document... but not likely design, research, develop.

------
nostrademons
This is sorta the business idea that I always thought should exist but never
had the guts to start. So, kudos for giving it a try.

However, the reason I never started it is because the value of a degree exists
mostly inside other peoples' heads. Unless you can change what's in there, it
doesn't matter what the piece of paper says.

And you'll face an uphill battle in changing it. Most people are not like
Hacker News readers. They don't automatically assume that new ideas are
interesting ideas; they tend to be risk averse instead. And so organizations
that have built up a reputation over hundreds of years (like Harvard or
Oxford) are at a significant advantage compared to even colleges that are
decades old. Without a significant marketing campaign and a first class that
goes on to be very accomplished, it'll be very hard to get people to take a
new accrediting agency seriously.

Good luck.

------
chasing
So. Instead of paying a bunch of money and spending a lot of time on something
that didn't feel right, you struck out on your own and self-educated yourself.

Own that decision! Having a fake Bachelor's degree from some fake
accreditation system you invented will just make you seem like you're
defensive about it or trying to pull one over on people or something. It just
feels weird.

~~~
sirdogealot
What's so fake about it?

Completing a list of criteria and scoring well on standardized tests is pretty
much all that qualifies somebody for a "degree" from any one of our current
post secondary insitutions.

When you wrote "fake Bachelor's degree from some fake accreditation system" I
assumed you were talking about the Universities and Colleges of the world.

~~~
oh_sigh
What's so fake about buying 100,000 followers on twitter? It means you're
famous, right?

~~~
dmak
You can certainly fake it, but it can only hold for so long. There are degrees
today that do not uphold the knowledge you would expect that person to have.

~~~
JohnHaugeland
And this is one of them.

Oh wait, except for the "expect to have" part.

------
beloch
1\. Apprentice in a good trade and you can earn more than the average
professor. Seriously, my plumber makes more than than the prof who taught me
quantum physics.

2\. If you're at all cut out for college, you can get scholarships.

3\. Even if you're not brilliant and just persistent, you can get loans.

University administrators and their associated bureaucracy have been expanding
for quite some time now. It's actually rather sickening. I went to a
conference and inadvertently lost the receipt for a $20 supper that sparked of
a month-long shit-storm of gargantuan proportions when I tried to claim it as
a travel expense. I think the University must have spent upwards of $2000 in
man-hours lost. I honestly would have just paid the $20 had I only know what I
was setting in motion! They weren't even coming down on me! They turned on
each other like a starving pack of wolves, desperate to establish who was the
alpha!

It's worth asking how we can step back into sanity from our current, ludicrous
position. Recently, several University of Alberta professors organized a
protest in which dozens of professors have applied, in groups, for the
position of president of the University. They argued that any of the many
groups applying for this position could do a superior job to any single
person, and they'd each be getting a raise despite splitting the salary of the
position! While the obvious message is that top administrators make far too
much, I actually hope the UofA hires one of these groups. An absolute
bloodbath for the administration of the UofA would likely ensue! Perhaps those
claiming $20 for dinner at a conference will simply be given the $20 without
touching off a grand inquisition that costs thousands!

~~~
chrisBob
In addition to scholarships, which are merit based, many schools also have
good financial aid, which is need based. I think colleges advertise this
poorly but it makes a huge difference.

I am at Boston University now and while the sticker price is $55k/year the
average american student pays about half of that. When my wife went to
Princeton they used the FASA form to to calculate how much your family could
afford and gave you a grant (gift) to cover the portion that should be student
loans. In this way the fancy Ivy League schools can be cheaper than most other
schools, and this is available to every student that is accepted.

~~~
smeyer
When you say that "the average american student pays about half of that", are
you counting student loans towards the half the student pays or the half they
don't? I've seen loans treated both of these ways before. I went to Harvard,
and like your wife at Princeton, I found the financial aid incredibly
generous. Their net price calculator online is a pretty good guide to their
policies: [https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/net-price-
calculat...](https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/net-price-calculator) .

~~~
chrisBob
collegedata.com (what ever that is) says that the total cost to attend BU is
$61k, and the average need based gift was $26k plus another $7k in "self help"
for freshmen which I assume is a combination of loans and work for the school.
83% of freshmen got aid, but less than half of students over all got financial
aid. Some of this is skewed by the fact that BU has a large number of foreign
students who typically do not get any financial aid.

$30k per year is still a lot, but its a private university in the middle of
Boston. Half of that $30k is for room and board.

[http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg03_tmpl...](http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg03_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=146)

------
amorphid
Personally, I think this idea is awesome. My off the top of my head suggestion
would be to open source the requirements for accrediting a specific course.

For example, it's determined that students from the "Intro to Calculus for
Programmers" course need to meet certain qualifications to pass. If they
finish the course on their own, with no help from an instructor, then they
only need pay an Instructor to oversee an "I know my stuff" exit process. If a
student needs instruction, then the student can pay for the bits that they
need. Instructors can become highly leveraged, experts in the parts where
people really need help, charge more for their expertise, and students pay
less because they need less overall instructor time.

That may be a little unclear. I've got a couple beers in me.

~~~
Michael-XCIX
Thanks! That's really nice of you to say. What you suggested is 100% what will
be happening.

Everything, with the exception of the actual instruction between a professor
and a student/class (not recorded lectures, actual instruction) will be open
source and freely available for anyone to use with a non-commercial clause in
the license allowing for the author (or anyone the author permits) to generate
revenue from their use with banner ads etc.

~~~
fillskills
Absolutely fantastic idea Michael. I have been trying to solve the same
problem from a different perspective. Would love to see you succeed.

------
voidlogic
>>I Can’t Afford a Bachelor’s Degree

That is very true for some degrees, but I laugh when potential C-S students
say this.

My first year of undergrad at well performing state university, I took loans
and worked at the schools IT support center, 7.50/hr. The following summer I
worked as a "Application Development Intern" and made $10/hr. For the
following three years I worked part-time at a local software consulting firm
and made $15/hr and part-time as a C-S TA and made 10/hr. I paid off my debt 2
months after graduation and I got lots of great experience.

My story is very typical of my C-S and IS major classmates. And now those same
internships in my Alma mater's town are paying 17-18/hr.

So when people say that can't afford to get a C-S degree I think they either
don't know the score or want to be one of the "too cool for school" kids in
the valley, but lack the proper reasoning (I don't use that term for people
with good reasons).

~~~
steveklabnik
How long ago was this? It matters, a lot. Tuition doubled at my school while I
was there. I ended up with ~$72k in debt. And it wasn't any Ivy-league school.

~~~
Crito
While I was at university, I had a total of 18 months of 40-hours/week
internships/co-ops. Those were at intern rates, but even so a year and a half
of working took care of about $40k of expenses. I continued to work for some
of those companies while I was in class, which covered the rest.

It's not easy, but if you work hard you can at the very least keep your debt
reasonable.

(It is probably also worth mentioning that your debt was more than double the
median student loan debt of people leaving college: ~$30k:
[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/10/student-loan-
debt-m...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/10/student-loan-debt-median-
income_n_3573683.html) Your school (and mine) was far more expensive than was
necessary.)

~~~
will_work4tears
Let's be fair though. I knew one person, personally and closely, that went to
school full time, worked a full time job and raised two girls (they weren't
babies or toddlers though) and managed to get a 3.0+ GPA, but that doesn't
mean everybody can do it.

I tried (not the raising the girls bit), with a full time job and going to
school full time and my grades plummeted for that semester (which caused me to
have to retake a couple classes and delayed my graduation a semester).

Even in a Mid-Missouri small town, making 7-8 bucks an hour working ~24 hours
a week, it wasn't enough to survive, let alone survive AND pay "cash" for
classes and books.

~~~
crazypyro
Just curious, which small town in Missouri did you go to school?

~~~
will_work4tears
"Small" being relative, of course, it was Columbia, MO. I graduated from the
University of Missouri.

~~~
crazypyro
Oh okay, I go to a school just south in an miniscule town by your standards
then. Haha.

~~~
will_work4tears
How far just south? Rolla, or Jefferson City? My wife is from Rolla, and I
know several people that went there. I don't know anybody that went to Lincoln
though.

~~~
crazypyro
Rolla

------
chaostheory
> provides me the opportunity to challenge myself and not be restricted to the
> 10 or 12 classes available in a major

I don't feel that you're restricted to a set number of courses for your major.
Universities tend to tell students about the MINIMUM number of courses that
you NEED to take within your major in order to graduate. Universities will be
fine with students taking more courses within their major just as long as you
take the minimum number of courses in other areas such as general studies.
There are also more and more inexpensive online university programs, of which
more and more are being offered by public universities.

Even if the courses don't challenge you enough in your university, there's
nothing stopping you from asking a professor for more work in the form of a
quarter or semester hands on project or research. GA Tech professors are more
than happy to hand them out, and there are some cool ones.

Since we're on the subject of something that challenges you, you should try
applying to Georgia Tech. I'm not sure what the stats are anymore, but not too
long ago only 10% of incoming freshmen (most of whom were the top 5% of their
HS's) would graduate.

Michael, I'm not sure you fully did your homework before coming up with your
proposed solution (though I could still be wrong). imho I don't feel that
anyone can fully understand the problems of the current university system,
until they actually attend one.

------
araftery
A new form accreditation is really what's holding back a huge change in higher
education. MOOCs right now, at most, can replace only traditional professional
development classes. They're still not a drop-in replacement for college
degrees.

That's because of accreditation. Bachelors degrees are valuable, in large
part, because they're a common currency: employers know when they see a
potential hire has bachelor's degree, he/she at least spent four years
learning at a high level and fulfilled some level of competency in his/her
chosen major.

Right now, there's no way for employers to make similar judgments about people
who have obtained their education entirely online, so it's really hard to get
a serious job in, say, software development, with just a few Coursera courses
on your resumé. In that case, you'd need to build up a portfolio of OSS
projects, etc. Whereas a newly-minted bachelor's in CS will get your foot in
the door somewhere, even without that extra work to back it up.

One approach to accreditation/evaluation are domain-specific exams, like the
Boards in medicine or the Bar in law. But just passing an exam doesn't
necessarily communicate the same thing as a degree, and thus doesn't really
solve the problem. There are also, no doubt, disciplines not well suited to
this form of accreditation. This approach (Alyxandria) seems more focused on
accrediting courses (which solves the same problem) and does it by peer-
reviewing those courses, which I think is a very interesting, credible, and
scalable approach.

Right now, LinkedIn might be the closest competitor out there to this. They
offer a form of peer-review for one's skills with their endorsement feature.
Another company that was trying to tackle this problem is Accredible[1], but
it seems they've now pivoted to include many more features than peer
accreditation — perhaps at its expense.

It'll be really cool to see how this problem is solved in the long run. I
think "accrediting" individuals, rather than institutions or classes that
individuals can then take, will be the winning strategy, as education becomes
increasingly unbundled. That is, if articles, YouTube videos, etc. are to be
considered legitimate tools of learning in the future, as college classes are
today, then accreditation of individuals will be the only sensible approach.

[1]: [http://www.accredible.com](http://www.accredible.com)

~~~
sampo
> _" so it's really hard to get a serious job in, say, software development,
> with just a few Coursera courses on your resumé"_

Well this is not a general solution, but for Coursera's Probabilistic
Graphical Models, I remember someone in the course discussion board said that
this was such a demanding course that he would hire anybody, who passed the
course with good points, to his company.

~~~
grayclhn
It would be fun if the general solution was making online classes _absurdly
hard_. Unfortunately, it's hard enough to stop cheating on exams in physical
lecture halls, so once a high grade guarantees students job interviews....

~~~
majc2
...we will know if they know the material or not?

I don't think cheating on exams is that widespread, what are others
experiences?

~~~
grayclhn
Companies already can choose to interview anyone who's taken relevant
coursework, but usually can't commit that much time so they screen applicants
first. If the grades in a few particular online courses become widely known
for getting students interviews, I think most of us would expect cheating in
those classes to rise and the classes' role as a screening mechanism would
degrade.

I don't have data on cheating available, but anecdotally, I've TAed economics
classes at UCSD where---routinely---over 100 students in a class would turn in
word-for-word identical homework (this had nothing to do with whether students
were allowed or prohibited from "working in groups" on homework, so it was
definitely considered cheating in some of the classes). I suspect that
cheating varies a lot from university to university and from major to major.

------
HSO
Or… you could just emigrate to (one of the better-functioning parts of)
Europe. Public universities with no or low fees, some of them excellent to
world-class, no worries about SWAT raids, greater privacy protections,
healthier food, etc. etc. I used to admire the US when I was young(er).
Mostly, I came to realize, because I have deeply liberal values (liberal, that
is, in the original European sense!). These days, I ask myself why anyone
would even stay in that pathetic joke system, especially if young, flexible,
and intelligent. You can't get anything done for your own people, starting
with education and health; all you do is work them harder to extract more
taxes to pay for your warlords to terrorize and snoop on the rest of the
world.

~~~
lgieron
Aren't non-EU students supposed to pay full price for their university
education?

~~~
HSO
Sure, in the UK. I don't even count them in Europe anymore. ;-) Try Germany,
Switzerland, Austria, Norway, Sweden, France,…

~~~
phazmatis
But won't there be a language barrier? And call me a distrustful cynic, but I
somehow doubt those countries would accept that I just show up there and
demand edumacation.

------
netcan
Ambitious. Probably completely overreaching and doomed to failure. Small
chance of a wonderful success. Good luck.

 _" In my mind higher education should be almost exclusively about academics.
I’m looking for an affordable degree program that is academically rigorous,
and provides me the opportunity to challenge myself and not be restricted to
the 10 or 12 classes available in a major."_

For someone with these kinds of goals, I think the best perspective is to
think of universities as cultural institutions, like marriage. The institution
allows young people 3-4 years to spend on education, experimenting with their
personality, etc.

Peers are important from that context as are mentors.

------
jotux
>provides me the opportunity to challenge myself and not be restricted to the
10 or 12 classes available in a major

This seems like an exaggeration to me. Looking back at my BS I took about 45
classes total (not including labs). Of the 45 classes 16 were specifically for
my major (EE), 14 were science/math/engineering, and the last 15 were general
education.

------
anigbrowl
This strikes me as potentially much more disruptive than MOOCs and much closer
to the original concept of the university.

~~~
harmegido
I agree, awesome name too.

------
hawkharris
I love this concept and give the author credit for articulating it so well. My
only suggestion would be to add a social component to the program.

Meeting people is the most important part of college. The vast majority of
graduates find jobs through their personal networks. If finding a job isn't
your top priority, students who expand their circles grow intellectually as
they exchange ideas with people who have different perspectives.

Having said that, I've thought about putting together a do-it-yourself comp-
sci degree that involves attending local Meetup events. One of the great
things about this field is that, in most cities, there are active communities
surrounding what it is you want to learn. So it's possible to capture the
personal networking experience of college without the tuition.

~~~
nostrademons
I would love to see the social and academic components of college decoupled.

One of the things that always struck me as stupid about college when I
attended is that I knew I was paying mostly for the privilege of going to
school with a bunch of other grads who were silly enough to drop 40 grand on
an elite education, and yet would end up in powerful positions afterwards on
the strength of the name alone. The academics I could (and did) get elsewhere,
more efficiently, but the degree and the network can't be replicated. However,
the degree (fundamentally) is just a piece of paper, and the network
(fundamentally) was just hanging out with a bunch of people who also got that
piece of paper. I've found both to be quite valuable post-college, but there
are many, many subjects that I could've studied that would've been more useful
than my courses.

I bet we would see a lot more innovation in instruction methods and content of
courses if they were decoupled from social aspects, networking, residences,
and accreditation.

~~~
nmrm
For me, the social aspect of college was about a lot more than forming a
"professional network".

I learned a lot and grew as a person interacting with people outside of my
area who will probably never (directly) provide me with a competitive
advantage in the job marketplace. However, I know what I don't know in much
deeper ways than I otherwise would.

Attending meetups might get you this for the very narrow slice of the world
that is CS.

------
gdewilde
I had a bad idea for you Michael. Every day there are news articles about
university professors who did something wrong or have some other reason to
quit. You could contact them and point them at your project.

A sample for today:

Professor John Schindler posted a photoshop
[http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/higher-
education/navy...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/higher-
education/navy-college-professor-placed-on-leave-over-
photo/2014/06/23/4779ef78-fb14-11e3-9f27-09f20b8bfd1a_story.html?tid=pm_national_pop)

Professor Bacevich retired [http://www.bu.edu/today/2014/good-bye-professor-
bacevich/](http://www.bu.edu/today/2014/good-bye-professor-bacevich/)

and is starting a MOOC [https://www.edx.org/course/bux/bux-intl301x-war-
greater-midd...](https://www.edx.org/course/bux/bux-intl301x-war-greater-
middle-east-1556)

Reddit user 20kadjunct is adjunct professor with an annual salary of $20,000
and 2 other jobs. [http://www.businessinsider.com/adjunct-professors-ama-on-
red...](http://www.businessinsider.com/adjunct-professors-ama-on-
reddit-2014-6)

professor Thomas Docherty, a nationally recognised critic of higher education
leadership and policy, was suspended last term in March.
[http://theboar.org/2014/06/23/suspended-professor-
prevented-...](http://theboar.org/2014/06/23/suspended-professor-prevented-
attending-conference-campus/)

A fresh badge of Professors every day.

(the plot thickens)

------
dnautics
I'm not sure this is what is happening with alyxandria, but Whoa. I think a
peer-to-peer degree accreditation is an amazing idea, and I am a little bit
sad I didn't think of it first. There might be a problem going with a strictly
money-based exchange system (bad incentives) but I am certain there are
solutions to this problem (some sort of rating system).

I would be willing to help. I have a PhD in chemistry/biochemistry.

------
restless
"I want America like Europe where they'll educate your kid until his head
explodes. You want to go to college, go, we need you, we need doctors because
people grow up and fall down and go boom, everyone is going to need a doctor,
let's have three doctors per floor of every apartment building in this town.
How about that as a good idea? Like that is a good idea. Okay, so let's make
college tuition either free or really low and if you have a country full of
whip-crack smart people you have a country the rest of the world will fear.
They will not invade a country of educated people because we are so smart
we'll build a laser that will burn you, the enemy, in your sleep before you
can even mobilize your air force to kill us. We will kill you so fast because
we are so smart and we will have foreign policy that will not piss you off to
the point to where you have to attack us." Henry Rollins

------
ivan_ah
> _I’m looking for an affordable degree program that is academically rigorous,
> and provides me the opportunity to challenge myself_

If you're not going to university, you must find yourself some good books to
read. Get in touch with someone who is knowledgeable in the field you're
interested in and ask them for book recommendations. I remember one day my
friend recommended me the sequence of books for learning physics (CM by
Goldstein --> QM by Sakurai) and reading these two books did more for my
physics education than what I learned in class...

<plug> If you're interested in learning first-year science in an affordable
manner, check out the _No bullshit guide to math and physics_. I wrote this
book because I was tired of watching my students suffer at the hands of
mainstream textbooks. [http://minireference.com/](http://minireference.com/)
</plug>

------
masters3d
I understand the frustration the author may have with the current college
system but there are ways of getting a cheaper quality education. People
overestimate what they can do in a year and underestimate what they can do in
10 years. Take 1 college class every 6 months and you will get that degree in
due time.

~~~
Ologn
Yes. The title is "I can't afford a Bachelor's degree" and he talks about $12k
and $17k a year programs, but if he did not take a full schedule on and cut it
in half, it would be $6k to $8.5k a year (or perhaps $7-9k with fees). It
takes longer but if you say you can't afford it the other way...

------
ivan_ah
This could be good, but I don't think we need to imitate the "granularity" of
the existing system. Currently, the "accreditation" is very chunky: a piece of
11"x17" paper certifying you know how to read and write, and can produce a
sustained effort of three years in a row.

A more interesting option would be to issue certificates for each course
taken. Specifically, it shouldn't be necessary to sit through all the lectures
and do all the exercises, but simply pass an "I know my stuff" exam, as per
@amorphid's suggestion.

The test could be a 30 minutes skype interview + problem solving session over
skype with an professional accreditator. Of course, this only pushes the
reputation question to the problem of who accredidates the accreditators, but
that might be easier to solve, at least for certain niches.

------
eitally
I got really excited about something similar, in 2011, when I read this post
about the DIY-MBA movement: [http://kadavy.net/blog/posts/i-started-a-diy-mba-
group-youre...](http://kadavy.net/blog/posts/i-started-a-diy-mba-group-youre-
not-invited/)

I haven't done it yet, but I am still contemplating the idea. One of the
biggest problems that can arise with not actually attending a university in
person is the lack of relationship and teamwork education. That can be
partially mitigated via videoconferencing and online team projects, but it's
not the same as being in an office and leading a group of individuals in
person. One of these years I'm going to actually have time to do this....

------
nileshtrivedi
Meanwhile, Udacity has started a credential program called Nano Degrees:
[https://www.udacity.com/nanodegrees](https://www.udacity.com/nanodegrees)

------
eastbayjake
You've got moxie, kid! It seems like some other commenters are raising
questions about your model -- if you change your mind, I'm sure someone in
this thread could get you a job that would let you pay the bills and use your
spare time to learn whatever interests you. (Going to a prestigious college
was cool, but Matt Damon was right: I could have learned just about everything
at my local library for $1.50 in late charges.)

------
MisterNegative
Universities force students to learn, otherwise students will fail courses
etc. I usually make plans to learn stuff etc next to my courses, but while I'm
motivated to do so, it never seems to be enough. Therefore, I fail to do this
additional work because nobody enforces me to do it.

I hope that the author of the article at least thinks about motivational
problems such as mine before going through with it.

------
ofir_geller
do you have an estimate of the cost for a full first degree? even one that's
very broad will help me understand your idea better.

~~~
Michael-XCIX
I sure do. As things stand right now, the cost of a bachelor's degree from
start to finish will be capped at around $20,000 (hopefully less) if a student
were to pay to take complete courses with a professor in a live-web
conference, 1-1 tutoring, or in-person setting.

Professors charging less than the maximum amount allowed, plus the opportunity
to take competency exams administered by a professor (which have a much lower
cap on how much professors can charge) could reduce that cost pretty
significantly.

~~~
bcguy390
How much would you say the cap for a professor to teach would be. Also why
would they want to do this instead of teach a real course at their university

------
yellowapple
The site mentioned in the article (alyxandria.org) is flagged by my company's
filter/proxy (IronPort) as being a potential malware site because "IP address
is either verified as a bot or has misconfigured DNS." Perhaps this
accreditation organization should check its DNS records?

------
JohnHaugeland
Given that there are a lot of non-accredited schools filled with teachers and
curricula that we don't take seriously, so I'm sure a homemade college degree
by someone who thinks university is job training will go over well.

"Oh you graduated summa cum laude? From where? ... your house, you say."

------
phazmatis
This is an interesting idea, but I don't see how it differs from what Coursera
and such are offering. Pay for a structured, college-like learning
environment, to prove something to yourself, or brag. (I'm excluding those who
are just trying to be more marketable to employers)

------
peter303
I attended a technology school in the Boston area with the intention of
liberalizing my education once I found the time. But I never really did, save
a small hobby here and there. I still have great hopes with all the new
internet self-education options out there.

------
cardamomo
Why not depart even further from the traditional model of higher education?
Open Master's is an interesting concept in this vein:
[http://www.openmasters.org/](http://www.openmasters.org/)

------
bruceb
We are refining it right now but you can go to
[http://www.coursebuffet.com](http://www.coursebuffet.com) and see
approximately what level a free online course would be at a US university.

------
nickthemagicman
I love this idea and support it!!

Sort of PhD marketplace.

For smart people who can teach themselves there needs to be some sort of
validating and credentialing of the knowledge they have!

------
tchai_
Some valid criticism in here, but massive thumbs up for:

"The potential for a good story, is one of my only requirements in deciding to
do or not do something."

------
webhat
We went the other way and have approval to give course credit from the state
of Vermont. And are in the process of getting accreditation.

------
jqm
This is a cool idea.

It needs to be more fully fleshed out and coherent, and it needs more muscle
(and players) behind it, but it is a cool ideas.

------
supsep
How did this make the front page of HN?

------
kbar13
in HTML there are such things as anchor tags[0] that allow you to link to
other pages instead of using the footnote-y reference-y markup.

[0]
[http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/links.html](http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/links.html)

------
javert
I'm not going to have any sympathy for argument that starts out with the
demand that a person be able to get their education _locally_. A great many
people have to go somewhere else and move around for school. That is the norm
in a great many places. Also to pursue work, many people have to move.

~~~
maxerickson
Does your lack of sympathy to that point matter terribly?

~~~
zemvpferreira
Not at all, especially when the click-through link asking for Professors says:
"Work from anywhere. Online or in person - the choice is yours."

This seems like the beginnings of something great. I'm very curious to see how
it shapes up.

~~~
TheOtherHobbes
This seems like the beginnings of something <i>essential.</i>

The current system is hopelessly broken and corrupt. It's not serving most
students, it's not serving most teachers, and it's not even serving most
employers.

It mostly seems to be serving bean counters, bureaucrats, and property
speculators, who are all making out like bandits.

A serious disruption is inevitable.

------
johnsteve
This is an interesting blog. A very good idea in my opinion A good initiative
taken as well as a strong idea built for the people who have the poor
financials issues. Cheers

------
spiritplumber
I wonder how the kids in the movie "Accepted" would've fared after graduating
from S.H.I.T.

Good on you for trying this, but try to work with existing accreditors.

------
Bangladesh1
Nice reading this was

------
mellisarob
too much going on in merely one article

