
First physical evidence of why you're an owl or a lark - tjaerv
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24292-first-physical-evidence-of-why-youre-an-owl-or-a-lark.html
======
galaktor
I used to think of myself as an owl. I'd hate getting up in the mornings and
my most productive hours were somewhere between 11pm and 3am.

I actively started changing my habits a few years ago, meaning I changed my
diet to high-fibre+high-protein+high-(good)fat+low-carbs, stopped drinking
alcohol cold turkey, get up earlier (~5am) before work to work out and go to
sleep earlier (~10pm). This has worked wonders for me, I'm always energised
and never drowsy during the day, sleep like a rock and needless to say am much
healthier overall.

People think of me as a morning person now, which is probably right although
it's weird after having lived like an owl for years. I believe for most people
this boils down to habit and changing those is hard. An owl-ish life might not
be bad for everybody but from my experience it's very taxing on health and
social life and the mental state.

In my case having a regular job and kids certainly gave incentive (aka left
not many options) to transform into a lark, but most people can probably do it
- if they _really_ want to.

~~~
Nursie
It's good to hear that some people find a way out.

I'm not sure it's 'owlishness' or if it's delayed onset sleep disorder, but my
body seems to just want more hours in the day. More to be awake for (20 ish)
and more to be asleep (10 would be good). If I was left to control my own
schedule and didn't have to consider everyone else on the planet I'd probably
get up six hours later every day...

I've tried making myself go to bed, and sometimes to sleep with chemical help,
It doesn't seem to work for more than a few days. I don't seem to have a reset
button I can find.

Getting up at 5am regularly isn't really a choice I can see making, however
motivated, because 5am would come and my only thought would be how quickly I
could go back to sleep, shortly followed by seething, loathing hatred for
whatever had woken me. Similarly going to bed at 10 results in me laying there
for several hours awake.

I envy people who regularly get tired in the evening rather than waking up and
wanting to do stuff when the rest of the world shuts down.

~~~
galaktor
> I envy people who regularly get tired in the evening rather than waking up
> and wanting to do stuff when the rest of the world shuts down.

Here's some more from my personal experience (not saying it would work for any
of you, and it appears you've already tried a few times):

fwiw, I rarely am tired in the evenings, I just decide that it's reasonable to
go to bed now. Similar about food, I do it more to keep my machine working,
not because I'm hungry. Sometimes I pull a late-nighter because I'm sucked
into something, but getting up the next morning is harder (the "blerch" [1] is
louder) so that sucks.

Every time my alarm goes off in the mornings (fun fact: the alarm sound is
"Gonna Fly Now" from Rocky :-) there's a few minutes where my inner "blerch"
tries to convince me to stay in bed. Every time. I force myself to walk the
stairs and down a glass of tomato juice, and in almost an instant, am up and
running.

I don't think that it being really easy is the point here. And part of me
always wants to stay up long and nerd around. For me, taking control, getting
over that hump is never easy and takes a good bit of discipline, for the lack
of a better word. I did find that getting up in the mornings and stopping to
code/paint/play games a bit earlier before getting tired gets easier with
time.

[1] where I got that "blerch" word from:
[http://theoatmeal.com/comics/running](http://theoatmeal.com/comics/running)

~~~
Nursie
Lol. I can't think of anything that would have me up and running like that. It
often takes several hours after I get up before I properly feel alert and
awake.

The only thing that I have found really works is about an hour of exercise,
preferably cycling. That was a lot easier when I lived in a warm country.

Also I guess I'm not convinced why I should have discipline... it just seems
to work for other people!

------
Udo
All the data I have is anecdotal but here it is: I'm an owl. I do _not_
experience worse sleep compared to normal people, and in my experience my
sleep pattern seems to work better than most larks. The things the article
attributes to owls are not problems I'm suffering from, but on the contrary
some of my lark or normal friends do have them, including unusual tiredness
during the day. I usually don't consume tobacco or alcohol (only on certain
social occasions).

I'm also fortunate in that I have some brain MRIs of mine and in my opinion
there is _no_ marked reduction in white matter anywhere. I _do not_ have the
feeling that I'm suffering from permanent jet lag, though I must admit that I
seldomly experience jet lag at all (which I guess could mean I have it all the
time without noticing it somehow).

And here comes the most poignant bit of the article:

    
    
      "It's interesting that there are individual differences, but we need 
      to understand what is causing them and find ways of creating environments 
      in which those differences can be attenuated," says Dirk-Jan Djik
    

which sounds horrible and ignorant. I don't want my differences to be
attenuated. People are different, and for the most part that's a good thing.
Being an owl is only a problem if it inhibits human function. Otherwise, I
refuse to be labelled sick simply because I have a different innate sleep
pattern. Being an owl works for me.

~~~
kbajorin
You've missed the point. This is not about those that live healthy lives as
nightowls, but those that do not. Can we attenuate the differences among the
owls to figure out why some are unhealthy and others are not. Furthermore, can
we figure out the attributes that larks have, that on the whole seem to make
them healthier than owls. Then, maybe we can adjust the lifestyles of the
unhealthy larks to have them lead a healthier life.

~~~
Udo
_> This is not about those that live healthy lives as nightowls, but those
that do not. Can we attenuate the differences among the owls to figure out why
some are unhealthy and others are not._

That's not what the article is suggesting, and attenuating differences to
figure out the differences makes absolutely no sense, not even semantically.
The attenuation of differences in this context means that the intent is to
standardize the populace, nothing more, nothing less.

 _> Furthermore, can we figure out the attributes that larks have, that on the
whole seem to make them healthier than owls._

And I'm pretty sure I said I don't believe certain points the article claims
at face value. I don't think you can call this incredulity "missing the
point". This assertion that larks are healthier than owls, which seems to be
at the bottom of all this, should at least have more empirical data behind it
(preferably gathered by people with less bias).

 _> Then, maybe we can adjust the lifestyles of the unhealthy larks to have
them lead a healthier life._

Now you're just contradicting your own comment. Did you maybe mean to say
"owls" there?

~~~
bronbron
> The attenuation of differences in this context means that the intent is to
> standardize the populace, nothing more, nothing less.

> "Rosenberg suggests that people's work schedules should change to fit in
> with their natural sleep patterns"

I realize there's some of what you're talking about going on here (e.g. the
very next phrase mentioning that there's an 'easier way'), but I think there's
far less intent than you're implying.

~~~
dionidium
Right, I mean, we can talk about large, ominous themes or we can talk about
daily practicality. My boss wants me to come in around 9AM, more or less, but
my body and mind want me to be awake from midnight to 4AM. That's sort of a
problem. If a doctor can help, then I want that help.

 _The attenuation of differences in this context means that the intent is to
standardize the populace, nothing more, nothing less._

It sounds to me like you came to this article with the feeling that owls are
mistreated relative to larks and you're layering that previous sentiment over
the article so that it says things to you that it doesn't literally say.

------
jameswburke
I'm still not sure what the benefits of waking up and being _functional_ early
are, besides a societal one.

Ignoring my possible work relations, what difference does it make if I respond
to emails at 3pm, have breakfast at 5, work until 10, eat again, work until
2am, relax until the sun comes up, and sleep to do it again.

Again, society doesn't work this way and many times there are adjustments to
account for this (early meetings, spending time with friends and family,
etc.), but is early intrinsically better?

~~~
LaGrange
One word: sunlight.

~~~
Raphmedia
Here in Canada, during the winter, I wake up at 6AM. I'm a bit of a early
riser I guess. It's dark out.

I end my work day around 4PM. The sun is already down, and it's dark.

Being an early riser don't really help me get sunlight.

That's my work schedule. I'm naturally a night owl. I prefer to work all
night, but I can't.

However, I'm also one of the few who doesn't care that we don't see the sun
for month during winter. So being a night owl really helps me from getting
"SAD".

FYI, during winter: Sunrise: 7:34 AM Sunset: 4:22 PM

~~~
purplelobster
Swedish here. I just hate the way things are set up, so that in the winter you
practically don't get any sunlight at all. You go to work in the dark, work
inside (not necessarily by a window) and then you go home in the dark. I would
much rather shift the day so that the sun is up when I'm not at work. No
wonder people get depressed.

~~~
Raphmedia
Yes! But even with a free schedule, I have no idea how I could split it to
work.

Working all early morning and all late noon? Meh.

------
tokenadult
The reported study doesn't deliver what the headline promises, because the
study design doesn't show the direction of causation. A cross-sectional study
with one date of observation of adult behavior, like this one, cannot show
whether brain differences cause the sleep pattern differences, or whether the
sleep pattern differences cause the brain differences. The human brain is
reshaped and rewired by experience--that's what the brain is for, adapting to
the environment--so it's not clear what causes what here. See the online
article "Warning Signs in Experimental Design and Interpretation" by LISP
hacker and Google director of research Peter Norvig[1] for more information on
missing details to look for in preliminary reports on research studies.

[1] [http://norvig.com/experiment-design.html](http://norvig.com/experiment-
design.html)

~~~
fusiongyro
Exactly. They found a correlation, that's all. And a sample size of n = 50 is
not huge.

------
guard-of-terra
"For example, research published last month suggests that night owls who cut
their exposure to artificial light and boosted their exposure to sunlight
found their body clocks shifted towards earlier waking and sleeping"

Where I live there is not much sunlight except for a few months in a year. So
I get up at 10:40, hopefully get to work at noon, go to sleep at 2AM. And
don't feel so well.

~~~
basicallydan
Any chance of moving elsewhere?

~~~
guard-of-terra
I've not yet figured out where I want to live. I also fear losing connections
with my few friends/social circle and relatives.

------
danielparks
This is a horrible title; neither the study referenced nor the body of the
article itself makes the claim of a physical cause for being a morning or
night person.

The study just says that there were white matter “differences in the frontal
and temporal lobes, cingulate gyrus and corpus callosum” of the night owl
participants compared to the rest of the study participants.

The first author suggests this might be a result of night owls suffering from
“permanent jet lag” — i.e. that the cause goes exactly the opposite way the
title suggests. Of course, the study doesn't say that, it's just an educated
guess.

~~~
flatfilefan
I have heard a permanent jet lag explanation by a longer than 24h daily
biological clock cycle. So a person has 8 hours sleep and can go on for 18
hours before she is tired.

~~~
tifareth
This is my life, every single day. In order to maintain a semi-regular sleep
pattern, conking out for a full-night's rest is not optional because the
following night I -will not- sleep. Case in point - I have to be up in five
hours for work. I went to sleep two and a half hours ago and I'm still awake.

Oftentimes, it feels like the worst kind of torture. I am living in two worlds
and in one, I am barely better than an observer of my subconscious mind acting
out routine. My ex-roommate had this to say after he'd lived with me a year:

"Tif, you wax and you wane..."

This was a years ago. I think about it once a month or so - he was of course
referring to my self as alert and present as well as, alternately, a vapid
automaton driven by the eerily invisible clockwork of the subconscious.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get my coffee of the stove...

~~~
flatfilefan
A lesser evil might be to wake up every time an hour or two earlier than what
would have been natural. This way you would be tired in the following evening.
Almost guaranteed.

------
ChristianMarks
I used to be an owl for years. A regular 9-5 schedule seemed out of reach.
This May I changed my environment by filtering out blue light after 8PM. I use
the following:

1\. Inexpensive Uvex amber googles from Amazon:
[http://www.amazon.com/Uvex-S0360X-Ultra-spec-SCT-Orange-
Anti...](http://www.amazon.com/Uvex-S0360X-Ultra-spec-SCT-Orange-Anti-
Fog/dp/B003OBZ64M/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1379337848&sr=1-2&keywords=uvex+amber+glasses)
Wear them at least an hour or two before bedtime.

2\. I replaced most of the white compact fluorescent lights with amber compact
fluorescent lights
[https://www.lowbluelights.com/index.asp](https://www.lowbluelights.com/index.asp)

3\. And I use a sunrise simulator alarm clock. [http://www.amazon.com/Philips-
HF3520-Wake-Up-Colored-Simulat...](http://www.amazon.com/Philips-HF3520-Wake-
Up-Colored-
Simulation/dp/B0093162RM/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1380118779&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=philips+dawn+simulator)

No will power needed beyond the habit to wear the googles and change the
lighting. Usually in bed by 10PM.

Result: no insomnia. Have been able to consistently maintain an early
schedule. This would have been inconceivable earlier. I have become the person
you've never met.

~~~
shostack
You seriously need to get F.lux. Totally free, works on multiple OS's, and
shifts your color/brightness on your monitor throughout the day to more
naturally mimic natural light. This means it starts blue and bright in the AM,
and gets darker and more orange in the evenings. It can be pretty noticeable
if you are away and come back to your screen, but if you are on it for
extended periods you never even notice the shift.

[http://justgetflux.com/](http://justgetflux.com/)

~~~
ChristianMarks
Forgot to mention it--I use it, but it isn't enough. For Android there is
Twilight. The amber glasses are < $8 and are essential, in my experience.

------
kalms
I only read through the article once, and fast, but it does seem to imply that
night owl equals not enough sleep. That, and the amount of participants in the
test seemed a bit too low for a true statistical overview.

I'm a night owl, always have been, even after I had kids. Go to bed at 1am-2am
and wake up 7:30-8:30 depending on schedule. Weekends all bets are off. Works
well for me, but that's the thing: I don't think we're all that similar.
Different patterns for different people.

------
rdl
I've never really been owl or lark, but I do tend to have a long adjustment
process, and get off schedule fairly easily, I guess because I mainly spend my
time indoors and in artificial light, with no real consistent externally-
imposed schedule.

------
flatfilefan
Leanpub.com/nightowls somebody has taken time to summarize the experiences of
nightowls from IT

------
JonSkeptic
I'm definitely a lark, but I've yet to determine my unladen flight speed vs.
my flight speed when carrying a coconut. It seems most of those tests have
been performed on swallows.

