

Raspberry Pi vs MK802 - bconway
http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/2012/11/raspberry-pi-vs-mk802.html

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Lerc
Chip wise this is the BroadCom BCM2835 Vs the AllWinner A10

The AllWinner Clearly has the better CPU with a Cortex A8 compared to the
ARM1176JZF-S. It's almost twice the speed clock for clock on general code and
more so if using things like NEON.

Video decode seems sufficient in each one since both can decode 1080p and then
some.

GPU is rather hazy. The BCM2835 has VideoCore IV, The A10 has a single core
Mali-400 I haven't seen any real head to head comparisons on straight GPU
performance. If anyone knows of a comparison I'd be interested. If anyone has
both devices running similar OSs I'd be very appreciative of some
benchmarking.

For IO the Raspberry PI wins over the MK802, but the CubieBoard is another A10
device that is better yet again. <http://linux-sunxi.org/Cubieboard> . The
biggest advantages of the CubieBoard are SATA and EtherNet (the R-Pi Ethernet
is USB based) VGA is also available from the headers which is a big plus if
you are aiming for older monitors.

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zobzu
Everyone talks about having the gpu/vpu/dsp/you-name-it that can decode hd
with drivers.

Except, even with drivers, some movies still lag, for example, try
[http://www.auby.no/files/video_tests/h264_1080p_hp_4.1_40mbp...](http://www.auby.no/files/video_tests/h264_1080p_hp_4.1_40mbps_birds.mkv)

Yes it's high profile 40mbps 1080p. But then again, if you want to play files
from a box and all you do is play baseline blurays, then I don't see the
point. I believe such a box should play "anything" HD.

The page also report their own tests <http://www.auby.no/files/video_tests/>

Bird certainly lags to death on my exynos 4210

~~~
DannyBee
The hardware decode blocks in each processor/GPU/etc are rated to handle
certain bitrates at certain profiles. The tech sheets usually specify. Going
over those bitrates is usually death on these types of CPU's. They don't put
much work into software decode, and even if they did, it wouldn't even come
close.

A lot of the cheaper ARM SOC's folks are talking about have decode blocks
(either in CPU or GPU) that can only do H.264 high profile @20mbps or 30mbps
at best.

By comparison, intel hd graphics (even the oldest ones) will support decode of
at least 40mbps of high profile h.264 (and newer ones often have no problem
with 100mbps). Nvidia's purevideo hd and ATI's UVD can do the same, obviously.

Realistically, if you want a box that plays stuff out of the mainstream (and
honestly, mainstream is 20-30mbps or less right now) you have to pay more for
it.

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sciurus
I think the great advantage the Raspberry Pi has over the Mk802 and other
Allwinner A10 based devices right now is the community resources.

Let's say I wanted to install Debian on the Raspberry Pi. I can go to
<http://www.raspbian.org/> and find a healthy project and well-organized
documentation. What if I wanted to install it on the MK802? After a lot of
googling and skimming results, I'd probably end up at <http://linux-
sunxi.org/Debian> if I wanted to build the bootloader, kernel, and root
filesystem myself or <http://forum.doozan.com/list.php?6> if I trusted
somebody else's work. The experience is very different.

This is why I'm hoping <http://www.indiegogo.com/pengpod> succeeds. I think
what they plan to do is exactly what the A10 platform needs to succeeed with
hobbyists-

    
    
        Maintain a community forum and wiki
        Provide source for everything we create and share it on Github.
        Provide a package repository for the PengPods.
        Provide prebuilt images, with updates as available.
        Provide tools, scripts and guides as we go.

~~~
neverm0re
Community resources? The Raspberry Pi has almost zero hardware documentation,
a closed black box controlled by a massive binary blob and an absolutely
despotic PR disaster named Liz Upton who actively insults and derides
developers and others in the RPi community.

Here's a fun excerpt from <http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/2221> :

 _Liz: ... keep trying to rustle up some outrage if it gives you a kick; I’d
recommend finding something else to do soon, though. We don’t want you
developing an ulcer.

Developer: Am I allowed to be outraged by the fact that it’s not really open,
since I see no mention of actual documentation for the hardware? Or by this:
<http://www.raspberrypi.com/mpeg-2-license-key/> ? Can I get outraged by that?

Liz: Well you /could/, but you wouldn’t half look silly._

Nice going, Liz. That's right, anyone who actually wants to make full
utilization of the hardware they paid for is 'silly' and we're only rustling
up outrage for 'kicks' when you post a press release announcing how open
source you really aren't.

Here, have a nine page thread of people complaining they were banned under
weak, insane excuses like 'concern trolling' because they dared to mention
things like 'your supplier isn't sending me anything' and 'My SD card gets
corrupted when I unplug the device sometimes':
<https://www.element14.com/community/thread/20081>

It's got massive hype since it's a $35 Beagleboard, but otherwise it's
bringing nothing new to the table that hasn't been done by others and
increasingly done better by other devices.

The remainder of the situation seems to be a collection of people more
interested in their awards, hype and press releases than their actual users
and developers on their forums. Frankly, there's quite a few ARM SoC boards
out there with GPIO pins and all the bells and whistles of the Pi, many of
them have even beefier hardware. None of them have this horrible baggage and
all of them will run the same software for the most part.

So that's great that many people are going to target this device, but it's
hardly an 'exclusive port' to the RPi. The real bet to back is Linux on ARM.

Personally, this board gets me much more hot than the RPi and prices are only
going to come down on similar future boards:
<http://www.arndaleboard.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page>

~~~
iuguy
Hmmmm... That's a bit shady, especially charging for MPEG-2 support and other
codecs. Not quite sure what they're getting at there.

~~~
jws
Why shouldn't the people tha want to use the MPEG-2 patents pay the license
fees? I don't play MPEG-2 on any of my RPis and am fine not paying them for
those those that want to use that format.

~~~
neverm0re
Except that totally overlooks the fact there are parts of the world where they
could implement their own MPEG-2 decoder legally as they do not have software
patents. Instead, because of this blob system without documentation they're
forced to pay for it. How is this in any way not contrary to goals of
education?

~~~
beagle3
They still can, no one is stopping them! All they have to do is compile ffmpeg
in software only mode. It would be dog slow, but it's what you are after.

They are optimizing for the British education market, not for some ideal
libertarian education market in Somalia that can ignore patents.

And licensing agreements are a bitch. It might be against Broadcom's license
with MPEG-LA to give enough info about implementing MPEG-2 regardless of
jurisdiction.

~~~
neverm0re
> All they have to do is compile ffmpeg in software only mode.

Let them eat cake!

------
hvdm
The manufacturer of the MK802 claims a processor speed of 1.5 GHz. The CPU
runs at 1.0 GHz, the GPU at 500 MHz. They add this to get 1.5 GHz. LOL

------
rwg
In early 2010, HN went bonkers over Panic's 46" LCD TV dashboard:

<http://www.panic.com/blog/2010/03/the-panic-status-board/>

It's rather nice, but they picked an expensive (>$2000) TV with an embedded
x86 PC designed for digital signage applications.

Since the bottom has fallen out of the consumer LCD TV market, you can now get
a brand-name 46-inch LCD TV for about $600. A low profile wall mount will set
you back less than $40. One of the various MK802 incarnations will set you
back less than $80, and if you pick the right stick incarnation and TV, the TV
can power the stick through the HDMI port, meaning that you just give the TV
power, plug the stick into the TV, and you're done.

One caveat with the MK802-alike Android sticks is that there are a _lot_ of
variants out there, and not all of them use a chipset that's properly (GPL'd
drivers w/ source code available) supported by Linux proper. Also, the feature
set varies widely. But if you do your homework before buying, I have no doubts
that a giant status dashboard thing that's functionally equivalent to Panic's
could be created for under $700.

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dattaway
I'm not seeing any I/O pins on the MK802, which I thought was the reason for
the Raspberry Pi. Not much hardware hacking potential without these pins.

~~~
georgemcbay
The original "reason" for the Raspberry Pi was just to be a super cheap
computer that kids could pick up and learn to code for like they did with the
old BBC (or VIC20/Commodore 64/Apple II/TRS-80/Atari 8bits/etc). At least,
that's what the Raspberry Pi foundation was pushing as the reason.

The GPIO pins and the fairly fast gpu for video rendering were secondary
things.

The Raspberry Pi somehow or other really caught the zeitgeist at the right
time. It isn't the only kid on the block doing what it is doing, even when you
consider price, but it is by far the most widely known and thus there are huge
network effects that make it a good device to be tinkering with.

This situation is quite similar to smaller microcontrollers where in the minds
of many people that whole segment has become nearly synonymous with the
Arduino despite the fact that there are many other options, some of them just
as capable but far cheaper (eg. TI's MSP430 which you can buy for less than 5
bucks) and some about the same price but far more powerful.

Of course, once all the software, tutorials and/or hardware "shields" crop up
for the mind-share winner, that platform certainly becomes the most convenient
to hack on and then that popularity feeds on itself. In both cases hopefully
the entry device serves as a gateway for the interested hacker, but not their
final destination.

~~~
beagle3
> It isn't the only kid on the block doing what it is doing, even when you
> consider price,

Can you point to others in the price range ($35) that come close? And from
your intro above, I would guess "what it is doing" includes GPIO?

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dgerges
Sorry if that's not directly related to the post. I don't really get the story
behind Rasberry PI. Is the goal to make something cheap enough so that it
spreads widely ? Otherwise there are plenty of platforms that would be better
for learning programming starting with a simple browser no ?

~~~
grannyg00se
I don't fully understand the excitement either. But I don't think learning to
program is really one its strong points. Learning to work with input/output
systems might be on the list but there are other platforms for that as well. I
think the pi has a combination of low cost, relatively high processing power,
and significant input/output capabilities that really attracts hardware
hackers.

For learning to program I think I'd just go with a javascript scratchpad in a
browser. Or for core concepts and less kludge, maybe just a node repl. I guess
you _could_ use a pi for that if you don't have a machine that you want to
play with but that isn't why people are jazzed about the pi.

~~~
dgerges
I share the view that Javascript can be a very universal learning environment
(even if in itself that may not be the greatest langage to learn)

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ollybee
This is comparing against an MK802 II there is a recently released dual core
version, newer models also have an extra full size USB port.
<http://store.cloudsto.com/dual-core-rikomagic-mk802-iii.html>

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sauce71
You can run Linux and XBMC on the MK802 add an Arduino to get hardware pins
and you're where most of the Pi ppl are. I got them both, haven't booted the
Mk yet, but I think it would be nice to use it for running my Reprap and hook
up a webcam so I can monitor it in the basement. Could use the Pi also, but I
don't think it can handle the camera simultaneous. Or I use the Pi and use the
MK as Mediacenter or use the Mediacenter to run my reprap ... Or something :-)

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mmagin
It seems like they fit a different need -- the differing number of USB ports
and wired/wireless Ethernet are what most users are going to care about.

(Sure, you can use a USB hub, but then you're into another rats nest of
cabling.)

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zemanel
pardon my lack of electrical engineering conaissence but would it be feasible
to use a solar power supply to power these devices ?

~~~
orthecreedence
If the wattage output of your solar panel is greater than the wattage input of
the device, then yes.

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drivebyacct2
This is a pretty poor comparison given that the RPi has full linux, hardware
accel, etc. The MK802 is not nearly as open. No results about XBMC playback,
etc :(

