

Student Suspended for Refusing to Wear RFID Tracker Loses Lawsuit - sk2code
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/01/student-rfid-suspension/

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ck2
Get kids trained early. Next put them into all adult ID cards and make it
illegal to walk around outside without one. Police can just drive through a
neighborhood and see who everyone is and their drones can just tag you and
watch you move through your day. Don't have a chip on? Then get a forced iris
scan like the US military does in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The future freaking terrifies me, especially how people just roll over and
accept it.

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dreamdu5t
What terrifies you in this scenario? That the technology would be used by
people other than the police, or that the police require identification?

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ck2
Your response terrifies me even further. You don't see a problem with giving
the police extreme powers?

How about the police pulling up outside a neighborhood and making everyone get
in a line for TSA-like gropes and clone everyone's cellphone because there
were some crimes in the area recently (this actually happens now, not entire
neighborhoods but select individuals at their whim).

Tell me where you draw the line and how police won't immediately abuse any
power they are given? Let me know how you feel after your first encounter with
the police someday.

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phaylon
There is a trend in Germany right now, where police ask whole neighborhoods
for voluntary DNA testing when they are looking for someone. The problem is
that you'll get a visit and asked why you didn't volunteer if you don't go.

And it looks like it's not just Germany:
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4161983.stm>

I think part of the problem is that the reasonings in these cases aren't out
of this world. So people will think of the whole issue as much less
problematic.

~~~
tomjen3
That is surprising. Germany usually has its shit together wrt. privacy issues.

Of course you can always just hint that they are acting a bit naziest. Makes
them shut up really fast (totally unfair tactic, but it works).

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pilom
The district offered to let her wear a badge that didn't have an rfid tag but
she still refused. This case had nothing to do with rfid tags. The district
said she had to wear an id badge and she refused saying that the badge
represented the mark of the beast. If anything this is a freedom of religion
case not an rfid case.

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Osiris
That seems the be the argument:

 _“By declaring Andrea Hernandez’s objections to be a secular choice and not
grounded in her religious beliefs, the district court is placing itself as an
arbiter of what is and is not religious. This is simply not permissible under
our constitutional scheme, and we plan to appeal this immediately,” the
institute said in statement._

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hayksaakian
Yeah what the fuck? Since when can the government qualify the religousness of
my beliefs?

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eropple
Since _its inception_? There is a massive amount of case law defining what is
and is not protected based on religiosity (and numerous other classes).
Determining what is and is not constitutionally protected is one of the
primary purposes of the judicial system in America.

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andrewfelix
I think the title is misleading...

 _"The girl’s father, Steven, wrote the school district explaining why
removing the chip wasn’t good enough"_

The title should read "Student Suspended for Refusing to Wear ID Loses
Lawsuit"

This case had little to do with RFID. It had more to do with religion.

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Falling3
How about crazy teenager misunderstands religion and loses lawsuit?

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eru
What do you mean by misunderstand? If that's what she believes in, than that's
her religion.

(Different people already interprete Christion scripture in a different way.)

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DigitalSea
Did it ever occur to the girl that wearing an identification lanyard is
perhaps a security measure by the school to ensure only people permitted to be
on the grounds are on the school grounds? I think the RFID chip is a great
idea. It prevents people wagging and as mentioned prevents just anyone from
walking into the school pretending to be a student. They presented a
compromise of removing the chip and it wasn't good enough, there's no
religious belief trespassing here just stupidity and defiance for school
policy.

Here in Australia the public school I attended required me to wear an ID card
(no RFID though) on a lanyard for security purposes so they could identify
people who weren't supposed to be there. I don't see the problem because a
couple of places I've worked at have required the same thing and all
Government jobs also require a lanyard with ID displayed at all times.

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tptacek
I'm sort of with you. I've never really understood what the objection was to
RFID badges in schools. My kids already wear ID badges in public schools. Why
would I be upset by better ones? It's not like they're being tracked at all
times. They're in school. They're not even allowed to go to the bathroom
without asking.

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dmix
I guess some people have different expectations of freedom and privacy we
allow our kids.

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DigitalSea
In what ways does an RFID chip or ID badge on a lanyard restrict the freedom
of kids whilst at school? As for privacy, I don't see how an RFID chip or ID
card does that either. Passports have RFID chips in them as well as our photo
and other identifying info we're forced to have when visiting another country,
do passports infringe upon privacy as well? My drivers licence here in
Australia has my photo on it as well as an in-built chip, is it infringing my
privacy when I am asked to show it at the liquor store or anywhere requiring
proof of identification?

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bad_user
> _do passports infringe upon privacy as well?_

Yes.

> _is it infringing my privacy when I am asked to show it at the liquor store_

Yes.

~~~
tptacek
So for the rest of us who may not love the need for passports and drivers
licenses but are overall fine with it, it seems RFID school badges might be
just fine.

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param
Per the article, the school's motivation in adding an RFID tracker was to have
more accurate reporting on daily attendance (leading to more federal funding).
However, in an attempt to accommodate the student, the school district offered
her the choice of wearing a non-RFID badge. I wonder how the school was going
to detect her presence without the tag. If they were able to, then they
shouldn't do RFID for _anyone_. If they are NOT able to(which I would think is
likely), then why ask her to wear the plain badge without RFID? They should
have just offered her an exception to make the the whole case go away!

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caf
It seems to me that the system enables more accurate reporting on daily
attendance _of ID badges_.

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gizmo686
So? If a student does not have their badge, the teacher just marks them
present by hand. If a bandge does not have its student, the system marks that
student present automaticly. Either way, the school gets payed.

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caf
I thought this could go unstated, but presumably the intention is to encourage
the attendance of students, not badges.

~~~
tomjen3
No. That is undeniably the original intent behind the federal law.

The school, however, institutet that requirement because they want more money;
they might care about student attendence, but that is only a secondary
concern.

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bcoates
Article is wrong. The student didn't lose the lawsuit, she lost the motion for
an injunction that would prohibit the school from expelling her for refusing
to wear the badge. The lawsuit is allowed to proceed.

IANAL, but the decision still looks crazy to me: It centers around Employment
Division v. Smith, which is no longer good law federally or in Texas as the
Federal and Texas Religious Freedom Restoration Acts were passed specifically
to overturn that decision.

They create a new statutory right that forbids the government from using the
powers in Smith. The court interprets the new laws to not forbid anything that
would be allowed by Smith, which IMHO is not a credible reading of the law and
pretty disrespectful of the Texas State Legislature's right to control the
Texas school system.

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malandrew
Why does she just microwave the badge? Destroys the RFID but she is still
wearing the badge. Another option is to use RFID blocking materials like
several layers of aluminum foil.

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illuminate
She's refused to wear non-RFID based badges.

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pteredactyl
Technology for technology's sake. But at least I can easily create box-shadows
now or know my geo-coordinates at all times! PS - This article is on the
frontpage of msn.com

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OGinparadise
>> _"Student Suspended for Refusing to Wear RFID Tracker Loses Lawsuit"_

Student Suspended for Refusing to Wear Any Identification Badge Loses Lawsuit

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drivebyacct2
Previous discussion: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4819832>

