

Ask YC: what laptop to buy? - shayan

I am thinking of buying a laptop and would love to get your advice on this topic.<p>Some info:<p>- Price is not that much of an issue, I see this as an investment that will pay itself off.<p>- I will be spending 99% of my time on this laptop, and it will pretty much be a desktop replacement for me.  I will not be playing games on it, but will be doing most of my development there. OS is no problem since I use linux.  <p>- Screen resolution is very important to me.<p>- I think a 15" would be good, not much smaller and bigger <p>- It must be <i>light</i>, I will have to be able to take it around easily and all the time
must have long <i>battery life</i><p>- the rest is simple, 1G+ RAM, 150GB+ hard drive, good graphic card ... <p><p>Questions:<p>- is there anything else I should care about?<p>-  what are your suggestions, i.e. what brand and models?<p>- should I wait for something that is coming out soon?<p>- when is the best time to buy, b/f chirsmass, after it ...?<p>- I was looking at the MacBook Pro? what do you think?<p>-  where are the best places to check for reviews and suggestions? (I have looked at PC mag and CNET)<p>- what do you have and are you happy with it?<p>Thanks a lot in advance for all the suggestions.

======
mrtron
If I were you, MBP.

However, I would seriously consider a macbook. It is smaller, lighter, and I
extremely happy with it (had it for about 1.5 years. You may have more of a
need for a good graphics card and such.

Upgrade the ram and harddrive yourself, it is trivial, and will take ~ 5 mins.

I wouldnt put linux on it, again unless you have a specific reason to do so. I
dev in OSX, deploy on linux.

~~~
tyler
Putting Linux on it really isn't as big of a deal as it was at one point. I've
only tried with Ubuntu though, for what thats worth.

7.04 was somewhat of a nightmare. Off the top of my head... you couldn't use
the normal installation media, graphics drivers had to be installed manually,
likewise with sound drivers, likewise with wireless drivers.

7.10 on the otherhand was simple and straightforward. Everything except for
the wireless card worked right out of the box. I'm quite happy with it and use
it most of the time on my MBP.

~~~
mrtron
Not so much because it is too difficult or a big deal, or anything like that.

I have found OSX to be more than an adequate operating system for efficiency
while coding. Unless you have a fairly good reason to go with Linux (Ubuntu in
your case), I don't see the motivation to do it. However, if I was getting a
Dell, I would instantly go Linux for obvious reasons - I need to be running my
dev stack on my local machine, remotely connecting won't cut it.

~~~
nailer
Easier to install and update LAMP-related apps, and not having to reboot for
Software Update all the time.

------
tx
Thinkpad T60 or T61

I love mine, even wrote a little mini-review here:
[http://kontsevoy.blogspot.com/2007/08/best-notebook-for-
linu...](http://kontsevoy.blogspot.com/2007/08/best-notebook-for-linux.html)

Thinkpads are designed _for doing actual work_ \- "UltraNav" unit and the
keyboard are to die for. They are #1 reason why I picked ThinkPad over Mac.

My distant 2nd choice would be MBP, and 3rd - Dell Vostro.

~~~
icey
I'm a macbook user when I'm on a laptop, but if I were planning to work _all
day_ on a laptop, I would also recommend a Thinkpad, hands down. They are
amazing machines, and rock solid as well.

------
mattmaroon
I have a Lenovo X60 and love it. As far as hardware is concerned, it's the
Lexus of laptops. The attention to detail is impressive, and the build quality
unparalleled.

It's light as a feather, even with the extended battery (which is a necessity)
and has enough juice to last me the entire San Francisco to Cleveland flight
(~5 hrs). The keyboard is pretty awesome for a laptop too, though my one gripe
is that they put the Fn key bottom left and pushed CTRL to the right. That's
more annoying than you may think.

If you need a bit bigger screen, the T series is still fairly lightweight, and
is pretty comparable. I used to travel a lot though, so the extra 1.5 lbs of
weight made a big difference.

Say what you want about OSX vs. Windows and I probably wouldn't argue, but Mac
hardware has always been overpriced and underwhelming. If you're slapping on
Linux you'd be nuts to go with a Macbook.

------
brk
I used to LOVE the Thinkpads, but ever since they became Lenovo, the quality
seems to have suffered.

What was once a nice rugged feeling case, now feels like cheap plastic.

We've had a rash of Lenovo issues lately. Failed hard drives, weird hangs,
randmonly blank screens, etc.

Myself, I use a MacBook. I had an MBP before this, and will probably get
another one soon. I went from a 17" MBP to the MB, but I miss the more
powerful MBP graphics.

~~~
initself
No complaints here about the Lenovo quality on a T60P. When I say 'here' I
mean in my first hand experience with it.

Here's someone who agrees with me:
[http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2864&Re...](http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2864&Review=Lenovo+ThinkPad+T60p)

------
jey
I love my macbook pro. It has native unix (for work) and a great desktop
environment (for everything else). It's also light and thin. I like that I
don't have to worry about the sysadmin shit that I'd have to deal with on a
regular basis with Linux, or FreeBSD, etc.

------
noonespecial
The macbook. Just plain macbook. I have both MBP and MB and I use the MB by
far more. Longer battery, cooler running, lighter, no hooks to latch shut -
all magnets and here comes the most important thing of all...

Sleep. Yes sleep. Before I got macs I didn't think it was possible for a
computer to come in and out of sleep so well. You can open and close the lid
and it sleeps in seconds! Every time. Open and close it three times in a
minute just to jot down a note or two. No prob. I can go days without
recharging just popping it open when I need it. Forget to recharge, no prob,
it has silently placed a hibernate image on the disk, just connect power, open
lid, get back to work.

This is a class act all of the way that no other manufacturer has even come
close to imitating. Sleep on windows machines is laughable at best. Linux
alomst universally bungles it unless you have "lucky hardware".

I know, lots of people say "hey my XP laptop sleeps just fine"... No, apples
do this spooky good. You just have to see it to beleive it.

Get it for the good hardware and good support. Love it for closing the lid and
never worrying that your work will be right there for you at a moments notice
when you open it again.

~~~
Tichy
Wouldn't it make sense to wait until January 15th, though? Rumor has it a new
Apple Notebook will be announced...

~~~
shayan
do you know any details of this one? I could def wait that much if its
something good!!!

------
xefyr
Because it hasn't yet been mentioned, you might consider an OLPC. They're
small screen size is, imo, greatly compensated for by their durability,
portability, and mobility. They run debian and can be used in direct sunlight.
Did I mention the price is right? Oh, they also have much better antennae than
the thinkpad. :D

I'm not sure if the needs you outlined above are driven by some technical
requirement or if that's just a list of the laptop-de-jour to which you are
aspiring.

If nothing else, check out the hardware specs for the pure geeky pleasure:
<http://www.laptop.org>

------
dyu
I was going to suggest MBP until I saw that you'll use linux on it. I have
one, but I wouldn't suggest buying it just for the hardware. But then, all
your other constraints call for a MBP. So I'd say either a thinkpad or a MBP.

~~~
shayan
MBP was also on top of my list, but whats wrong with putting own linux on
it??? also I have never had apple before so I might even switch!

~~~
brk
Nothing is wrong per se, but I think you have better hardware options from
other vendors if you're not going to use OS X.

To me, the beauty of Apple is not the hardware, or the software, but the
(mostly) fluid integration of the two. If you're going to not use the
software, the hardware is really not all that special (IMO).

In fact, while I was very happy with my MBP, the screen locking thing turned
out to be pretty fragile. It ended up breaking on me after a few months, so my
screen wouldn't stay shut unless I squeezed it a bit where the little "hooks"
drop down and sort of shook it a bit. It was constantly popping open, and the
spring-loaded hinge was always popping up. Big pain in the ass.

~~~
mrtron
> It ended up breaking on me after a few months, so my screen wouldn't stay
> shut unless I squeezed it a bit where the little "hooks" drop down and sort
> of shook it a bit.

My friend had that and they fixed it for him in about an hour at the local
apple store. Take it in since it is just a few months old, it will be covered
for sure.

~~~
brk
Thanks, but that laptop is gone now :)

I was pretty sure it was an easy fix, I was just traveling so much I never
really had a chance to take it in for a fix.

------
bootload
_"... is there anything else I should care about? ..."_

Usage. Is this to be a min dev machine? ("99%") if so look into 3 things

\- port replicator: some way to plug in ergonomic keyboard, mouse + external
screen

\- power & recharge (at a power point? or are you mobile all the time?)

\- Operating system availability: (are you happy with using Windows, OSX or do
you want to install _inux/_ nix?)

\- Warranty (can you extend it?)

For me the sweet spot is a ThinkPad T61. Reliable, durable, has necessary
accessories and you can get Linux pre-installed (by third parties)

~~~
sethjohn
"- Warranty (can you extend it?)"

Generally electronics warranties are an overpriced scam (sort of like the
insurance car rental agencies try to talk you into). I've heard from several
places, though, that the Apple warranties are a great deal.

------
cratuki
I have a macbook. It's solid but I'd avoid it for linux (which I've decided I
prefer to osx) - the single-button trackpad alone makes it a bad choice for
linux. If I were getting a new laptop now I'd get a high-end thinkpad with
lots of RAM so I could use vmware effectively. I have a friend who has just
done this and raves about it - he runs Ubuntu.

Some people can get X11 configured to do wacky things with the keyboard so you
can run linux. I figure - why bother?

~~~
shayan
I love ubuntu, tis really good... and I am starting to get a feel from
everyone's comments that if I go with MBP then I should stick to OSX ... so I
guess I can either find an alternative like you said that would make me happy,
and have my ubuntu, or switch entirely to apple and get a MBP

------
jamesbritt
> \- Screen resolution is very important to me.

> \- I think a 15" would be good, not much smaller and bigger

But then:

> \- It must be light, I will have to be able to take it around easily and all
> the time must have long battery life

and

> \- the rest is simple, 1G+ RAM, 150GB+ hard drive, good graphic card ...

You may may to make some choices. I was laptop shopping recently, and wanted
basically the same features you listed, but found that light + powerful was an
odd combo.

I decided on a Dell D830 with WUXGA 15" screen (19020x1200) and the 9-cell
battery.

Weight: ~6 lbs.

I was considering the MacBook pro, but wanted the higher rez screen.

    
    
     I got the FreeDOS version; Ubuntu will go on it, and  went for the least amount of bundled RAM, since it is WAY cheaper to buy that separately.  It's even cheaper  to buy it as a separate item from Dell themselves.  But better yet to go through Fry's or newegg.com

------
nostrademons
Acer makes really good laptops at decent prices. I've had my Travelmate for 3
years without a problem, not even a failing jack. The Sony Vaio I had before
it was falling apart after less than a year.

My next computer may be a Mac, though. I've heard lots and lots of good things
about the new MacBooks.

------
ryumaou
I've done really well with Toshiba. I've had a number of different Satellites
and they've all been good.

Once, I dropped one when I was literally running from one end to the other of
the Denver airport, trying to catch a connecting flight. It bounced on a metal
plate on one of those moving walkways so hard that people turned to see what
the big noise was. When I got on the plane, the case had a visible dent in it
and I was sure I had cracked the LCD, but was too exhausted to deal with it on
the plane. When I got home, I opened the case to find the LCD was fine and it
ran like a champ. Anecdotal evidence, surely, but I've stuck with them ever
since and not regretted it once.

But, I know several people who have switched to MB for their only computer and
seem to be doing just fine with it.

~~~
shayan
I have a toshiba satellite myself, and I love it... but I find them to be a
bit heavy, and really bad on battery... and if you are willing to buy the high
end ones then you have some other interesting alternatives!!! but I must
mention the graphic card and the LCD _are amazing_ can't recommend it enough

------
davidw
I got one of these:

[http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us...](http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&dgc=IR&cid=11973&lid=471885)

And have had ok luck with it. The hard drive died after a few months, but on
the other hand, 24 hours after calling their service department, I had a guy
show up at my house in Innsbruck, Austria with a new drive - and I bought it
in the US.

It's not all that light, though... it's sort of clunky looking, to tell the
truth, but it was relatively cheap. Be sure to look for the discount codes if
you buy a Dell.

~~~
shayan
thanks davidw thats actually a cool bundle, I use ubuntu myself

------
Zak
I'm mostly happy with my Thinkpad Z61m. It's a 15" widescreen machine that's
fairly heavy. Its replacement, the much lighter T61 widescreen should be
appropriate. It's much more configurable than the MBP; base configurations are
much less expensive, and comparable configurations are a bit less.

I think Thinkpad quality peaked around the 600-series of the late '90s (mmm...
carbon fiber) and has been dropping ever since. The Lenovo takeover hasn't
helped, but IBM was so far ahead of everybody but Apple that I don't think
anybody has caught up yet.

------
petesmithy
I could not recommend my laptop enough - Samsung Q35.

There's now a Q35 Pro
([http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3512&re...](http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3512&review=Samsung+Q35))

And there's a newer model, the Samsung Q45
(<http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3869>).

I get 3-4 hours battery out of it, I really like the display, the spec is
good, and it's really light and robust.

------
joeguilmette
<http://shop.lenovo.com/us/notebooks/thinkpad/x-series>

my friend just got a job at Google, and that's the laptop they gave him. it's
pretty amazing. super lightweight, very snazzy dock thing. this laptop is
incredibly tiny, well built, and just about perfect. like 8 hours of battery
life, and you can even get a fingerprint scanner on it for like $30!

dont get a macbook pro. they are so expensive for the hardware, especially if
you want to run linux.

~~~
scw
I have an x61s, and highly recommend it. Lightweight (<3lbs), durable, great
battery life, performs well (Ubuntu 7.10). If you are willing to wait a few
months, a mac ultraportable is in the works and likely to be released:
[http://www.macrumors.com/2007/12/04/apple-orders-13-3-led-
ba...](http://www.macrumors.com/2007/12/04/apple-orders-13-3-led-backlit-
screens-for-upcoming-laptop/)

The two constraints you have that will conflict the most are lightweight and
large screen. If you are using this as a primary desktop replacement, I'd go
with a 20"+ LCD for desk usage.

~~~
joeguilmette
as the other poster said, you are going to have a hard time finding such a
large screen in such a small package.

just get a nice lcd monitor, keyboard, and mouse. when you're at your desk you
have a desktop, and when you're out and about you have a small little window
into the internet.

imo, though, the thinkpad x series is the best out there. amazing how well
engineered it is.

------
staunch
Latitude D830, 15.4 inch Wide Screen WUXGA LCD Panel, 128MB NVIDIAX Quadro NVS
135MX

I use Linux exclusively and that's what I just ordered for my new laptop.
~$1300 the way I configured it (with Dell "Instant Savings"). I insist on
NVIDIA so high speed drivers are ensured under Linux. Apple doesn't even make
a 15" laptop that runs at 1920x1200 and the others that do charge a premium.
Dell is a great option if you (like me) expect to replace your laptop every 2
years and don't care that it's not a Mac.

------
nailer
HP Pavillion DV. I'm using a DV 2000.

There are Ubuntu 100s. Everything works out of the box at the end of the
install with zero setup required.

Compiz, webcam, touch sensitive multimedia keys, wireless, bluetooth, touch
slider on trackpad, multimedia card reader, and all the usual bits and pieces.

They're also great looking, and have won a Red Dot award to prove it.

------
Tichy
The biggest issue of todays notebooks is the fan noise. I personally would
avoid buying a notebook with a fan, because they all seem to suck. I returned
several fan-books untill I happily found the Dell Latitude X1 which is
fanless. It's modernised brothers are available from Samsung.

Another thing to look out for might be a DVI connector.

------
pius
<http://www.paulgraham.com/mac.html>

------
silberman
I would recommend a larger than 15" screen, and definitely get another 21"+
monitor for when you're using it at your desk. Drastically increases
productivity.

------
cellis
Sorry guys MBP = fail. On price.

Get this instead (windows, but you can install linux on it if you have the
chops). Its ~$700 cheaper.

[http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SYCTOProc...](http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SYCTOProcess?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&LBomId=8198552921665234522)

~~~
mrtron
I hate to be "that guy"

~700$ cheaper? For the base model, yes. Make the specs comparable to the MBP:
2x2.2ghz, 2 gigs of ram, read/write drive, comparable battery: ~200 cheaper.
They still dont exactly match, the MBP now has a better vidcard still, and the
Sony has 1280x800 resolution instead of 1440x900.

Apple hardware is very comparable in price to most other providers.

~~~
cellis
Not everyone needs 1440x900, or a $2k comp. I am simply providing an
alternative to the largely unjustified, yet astronomically priced MBP. I guess
I should have looked for a budget.

~~~
icey
Well, the VERY FIRST point he lists in his criteria is that he's not concerned
about cost as much as he is a quality machine.

