
USMS Asset Forfeiture Bitcoin Sale - superchink
https://www.usmarshals.gov/assets/2016/bitcoinauction/index.html
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numlocked
Weird. Why not sell them in much, much smaller increments? You stand a way
better chance of getting full market value if you don't enforce the artificial
liquidity constraint of "only buyers who want a zillion bitcoins right now".
Or just legitimately sell them on an exchange. Is there a reason the gov't
would be obligated to go about it inefficiently?

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DougWebb
This is a typical assest forfeiture auction. They don't want to deal with
multiple buyers or non-cash-on-the-spot buyers. They value disposing of assets
quickly and cleanly over getting market value.

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asdfaoeu
Also not to mention they need to be seen fair doing it. Wouldn't look good if
the USMS was seen passing the coins off to their mates.

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ocdtrekkie
Especially considering some of these coins came from a lot seized from the FBI
agents (Carl Force was one) who tried to pocket it during the Ross Ulricht
case. ;) The risk of something unethical happening here isn't just high...
it's already happened to this exact merchandise.

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bigiain
And with the blockchain permanently recording this stage of those coin's
provenance - I'm wondering whether owning them is going to solve or cause
problems for someone later... "That's a Silk Road bitcoin!!!" (I wonder if
"Real Satoshi Bitcoins" will one day be worth many times their "face value"
like Confederate Half Dollars?)

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function_seven
If my wallet contains 10 bitcoins, and I somehow end up with a Satoshi
bitcoin, don't I now have 11 bitcoins that are all alike? When I go to spend
one bitcoin, how do you know if it's the Real Satoshi one or if it's one of my
others?

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Natanael_L
Coins have history, but coins spent together gets merged (and partially spent
coins get split).

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koolba
> The USMS will not transfer any bitcoins until it has confirmed receipt of
> purchase funds from the buyer.

I wonder if you can reverse the wire and keep the bitcoins.

> The USMS will not transfer bitcoins to an obscene public address, a public
> address apparently in a country restricted by the Office of Foreign Assets
> Control (OFAC), a public address apparently associated with terrorism, other
> criminal activities, or otherwise hostile to the United States.

How would a bitcoin address be located in a foreign country? Or even located
anywhere?

And wouldn't anyone participating in this create a brand new address with the
private key in cold storage?

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viraptor
> a public address apparently in a country restricted

I think _apparently_ is the key word here. For example if you're running a
company in restricted country X and it's known/advertised that this address is
associated with your company, it would match.

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sethhochberg
Seems to be the case. Actually some pretty clever wording.

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advisedwang
I wonder whether they will get a better deal through a sale like this than
simply selling them on an exchange (or exchanges). Do they sell on an exchange
when they need to dispose of other assets that have exchanges for trading?

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charlesdm
Of course not. But it's vastly easier to liquidate. Someone will make an
instant profit, upon acquisition of these coins.

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bemmu
If you run some bitcoin-related company, winning the bid could be an easy way
to get mentions in the media. It could actually make sense to bid a bit more
than the value of the coins, I would expect the coverage to be worth at least
several thousand dollars.

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charlesdm
Hadn't considered that. Very interesting!

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grecy
I wonder if this makes legal precedence that the US GOV is giving it's stamp
of approval that bitcoin is valid and legal.

i.e. when they seize drugs they don't auction them off because they are
illegal. When they seize fake iPhones I'm sure they don't auction them off
because they are fake and illegal.

Buy auctioning BitCoins it seems to me they're saying "It's a legal thing you
are allowed to buy and sell".

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UweSchmidt
Bitcoin is a legal thing you are allowed to buy and sell.

The Bitcoiners' dream is to have it be recognized as currency; as a commodity
it's just fine, or did you believe all that Bitcoin activity is happening
illegally somehow?

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ErikAugust
Didn't they seize a lot more BTC from Ross? I heard something in the amount of
150,000 coins.

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mrb
Yes, but they have already sold them (tens of thousands) in previous auctions.
This auction is from another bunch of coins seized from other law breakers.

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kamkazemoose
> These bitcoins were forfeited in various federal criminal, civil and
> administrative cases, including:

>United States v. Carl Mark Force IV, Northern District of California (Case
No. 15-0319)

>United States v. Sean Roberson, District of New Jersey (Case No. 14-565);

>United States v. Ross William Ulbricht, Southern District of New York (Case
No. 13-06919)

>Department of Justice, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives,
Case No. 776075-14-0028

>United States v. 178.95842915 Bitcoins stored in MultiBit wallet XXXX4XDAd,
Eastern District of Washington (Case No. 16-07009)

>Department of Treasury, Internal Revenue Service, Case No. 2015 9400 500008
01 001

>United States v. Approximately $200,979.15 Seized from Tradehill, Inc., held
in the name of Megan Thompson, et. al. Eastern District of California, Case
No. 14-02950

>United States v. $309,305.24 in U.S. Currency, etc., District of Maryland,
Case No. 15-03474

>Department of Homeland Security, United States Customs and Border Protection,
Case Nos. 2015330700002501, 2015330700002701, 2014330700023701, and
2014330700027201

So some are from him along with a mix of several other cases.

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mikerichards
so the US government says Bitcoin is legit? good.

Forfeiture is a scummy thing by the feds, but I'll take a 2017 vette with
those bitcoins.

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desireco42
Yeah, why not just sell on a market like any regular person would do.

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wmf
Which market, the shady one or the really shady one? At what price? Do Bitcoin
exchanges support all-or-none orders? What if the size of the order is a
significant fraction of the order book depth? etc.

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cbanek
United States vs Bitcoin wallet?

I hope the bitcoin wins.

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DINKDINK
My guess is that "United States vs Bitcoin wallet" could be an instance of
civil forfeiture, where instead of going through the steps required to
prosecute someone, US authorities are putting literally money in the defense
position and effectively automatically taking it. Which yields some tragically
comedic titles like: The United States Government vs $25,180 in United States
Currency.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States#/media/File:Civil_forfeiture_case_US_District_Court_Nebraska_2.png)

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stevenwiles
I was just wondering to myself "How the hell does the government win
judgements against sums of money?"

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st3v3r
The money doesn't appear to defend itself, and thus, boom: Default judgement.

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wmf
Does money have Miranda rights? If money cannot afford an attorney can it get
a public defender?

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tbihl
I don't believe so. It's also guilty unless proven innocent.

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rotoole
Maybe someone would pay a premium to own Ross Ulbricht's BitCoin.

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omarchowdhury
All bitcoins are created equal.

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JabavuAdams
And all humans are created irrational.

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vmarsy
> FOR SALE

> 2,719.32669068 bitcoins

> The required deposit to participate in this auction is $100,000.00 USD.

As of today 2719 Bitcoin equals $1,597,793 (Source: google)

This is a weird auction, putting Bitcoin risks aside, Bitcoin _is a currency_.
Is there auctions such as "FOR SALE: 1,000,000€" ?

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kondro
I don't think the US officially recognises Bitcoin as a currency yet.

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rspeer
"Yet"? Are you hoping for Bitcoin to be the next Liberty Dollar?

I'm not generally a fan of Bitcoin, but I know many people who are, and I
wouldn't want them to go to jail.

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kondro
Whether you're a fan or not, Bitcoin is clearly being _used_ as currency. It
would help if those adjacent to it would treat it as such so that less people
are taken advantage of.

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rspeer
It's extremely fortunate for Bitcoin that the government considers it a
commodity, not a currency. The fact that creating Bitcoin is called "mining"
instead of "minting" probably helped set that frame of reference.

If Bitcoin were a currency, then min(t)ing Bitcoin would be illegal in the US.
You can look at Liberty Dollars for an example of the federal government
cracking down on private mints, even when they don't claim to be making US
Dollars.

And yeah it would be great if fewer people got taken advantage of or stolen
from in the Bitcoin sphere, but I'm pretty sure that if you told Bitcoin
developers they had a fiduciary duty to users, they would just quit or go into
hiding.

(I am not a lawyer and this armchair sure is comfy)

