
Show HN: Fieldbook: Lightweight Database with a Spreadsheet UI and a REST API - jasoncrawford
https://fieldbook.com/developers
======
toisanji
I would use an open source version of this immediately. I've written several
hacked up projects using google spreadsheets and it works, but its unreliable.
I would not want to use a smaller 3rd party service as I would be afraid of
the service getting shutdown or neglected. I would be much more inclined to
use and pay for this service if they also open sourced it. Maybe run it like
wordpress, they make a lot of money :)

~~~
iheartmemcache
Wordpress is kind of a "one-off" in the same way that Farmville and Minecraft
were (i.e. right place, right time -- Newspro and Perl CGI was falling out of
fashion, PHP4/MySQL3.23 were common everywhere, shared hosting was easy, and
Wordpress came bundled with CPanel IIRC).

A more sustainable business model would be, I think, the safe middle-ground
for both the consumer and the developer-- the Atlassian model. Offer an
absurdly cheap .jar/.dmg/.exe out of the box which you can run locally for the
end-user/small-business (what is it like a dollar a user a year for the self-
hosted binaries?) and limit it to 5 or 10 seats. If the acquire-hire-kill by
GoogAplTwitSquare happens, you still have a local copy of your data and the
ability to migrate off the platform. If >(5||10) employees are using the
application as a critical component of your business, making the seat-fee
price-jump at that point is worth it (value provided > cost of seats, even at
a few hundred dollars a month).

~~~
huskyr
WordPress 4.4 comes with a new REST API that might change some things:

[http://v2.wp-api.org/](http://v2.wp-api.org/)

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benbernard
Hey Folks!

I'm the CTO of Fieldbook, we're really proud of what we've built here. In
particular, I really like our API explorer that allows you to run real node
code right in the browser to explore our API. (And see our realtime updates in
action on the same page). That feature is powered by Tonic
([https://tonicdev.com](https://tonicdev.com))

Its mad fast to setup a database with a REST api with Fieldbook, and we'd love
to hear what you think / what could be better / etc.

~~~
newman314
While it's nice that you have your own spreadsheet interface, how hard would
it be to hook Excel in as a front end?

I deal with large enterprises primarily and I've been looking for a nice
relational backend for Excel for years.

So breaking out the roles of a consumer vs. a creator, I would like end users
to consume without knowing that there is a different backend to the Excel
sheet they are using while still freeing up the creator to do what is needed
on the backend.

For example, we have extremely complex pricing spreadsheets that we use to
estimate projects, it would be fantastic to be able to collate and manipulate
data on the backend as well as data sources while being able to tell an end
user to keep using Excel as the front end as before.

Maybe this is a fit, maybe it isn't but any insight/feedback would be welcome.
Thanks.

~~~
jasoncrawford
Thanks! At some point I think we'll have an integration that allows data
syncing to and/or from a spreadsheet like this.

The spreadsheet isn't ideal as the primary UI for a number of reasons. That's
why we built our own UI, inspired by spreadsheets but fundamentally breaking
from the model to be more like a relational database.

But a spreadsheet connection could be great for reporting, modeling scenarios,
etc. – basically, all the things that spreadsheets are actually good for.

~~~
benmarks
I've been shocked at the number of enterprises with workflows involving shared
Excel docs (particularly in the eCommerce space). One of my (Magento)
community members has a business which seems to tackle some of the issues
around this: [https://www.cobby.io/](https://www.cobby.io/)

Might be worth having a chat with him.

------
tlrobinson
Neat. How does this compare to Airtable?
[https://airtable.com/](https://airtable.com/)

~~~
jasoncrawford
Thanks!

I think we've focused a lot more on relational support. For instance, on a
detail page, you can view and edit all linked records, and add new ones
inline: [http://docs.fieldbook.com/docs/go-beyond-the-
grid](http://docs.fieldbook.com/docs/go-beyond-the-grid)

We have a full-fledged query UI: [http://docs.fieldbook.com/docs/focus-on-
relevant-items](http://docs.fieldbook.com/docs/focus-on-relevant-items)

And we have a grouped view (think Trello meets spreadsheets), which is great
for any kind of pipeline/kanban view: [http://docs.fieldbook.com/docs/track-a-
workflow](http://docs.fieldbook.com/docs/track-a-workflow)

~~~
jamesmcintyre
Just an idea to share, from someone who's been building business apps using
Knack's visual builder for the past year, I think a killer combination would
be fieldbook's friendly UX for the database with a "marketplace" of front-end
"plug-and-play" UI modules. So in fieldbook I would create and save views for
the database with your current UI but then I could plug ready-made UI modules
on top of that database view and then customize the front-end UI. Ideally
these UI modules would be free or pay web-based or native.

I know it's extremely important to strike the balance of complexity,
capability and UX so this area is notoriously difficult to tread but I think
whatever solution does it right without sacrificing customization
extensibility is going to win big!

Fieldbook looks great and I hope it keeps getting better!

~~~
jasoncrawford
Thanks! Good ideas, and yes, you nailed it: the right balance of complexity
and functionality is key.

~~~
iheartmemcache
Eve's already been mentioned here, and Chris' lecture at Cal was really
interesting from a UX perspective. I'm sure you've seen it but if not, go
watch it.

The spreadsheet model is fairly intuitive for the end-user. He and Rich Hickey
both are pretty convinced that a Datalog-esque query engine is the way to go.
20 years ago, Lotus' Improv's model (where you separated the data manipulation
from the data type constraints) was way ahead of its time and guaranteed so
much more internal/referential integrity than 1-2-3. Modern-day Quantrix is
probably the closest you'll get to it, used pretty heavily in niche finance.

MSR puts out some interesting work on the PLT behind alternate spreadsheet
grammars[1] which are quite interesting too. Other than the obvious issues
(ETL[2], ACLs/RBAC, presentation/extensibility) MSR has put out quite a few
interesting papers out there. This is a very interesting problem domain to say
the least. I've developed up-to-the-Pareto-point for this in the past for
clients and if you get it right, it's a license to print money.

[1][http://research.microsoft.com/en-
us/um/people/sumitg/pubs/pl...](http://research.microsoft.com/en-
us/um/people/sumitg/pubs/pldi11-table-synthesis.pdf) [2][both conventional a
la SSIS and Informatica, as well as a Pipes-esque query; a premium feature you
could easily charge into-the-Oracle-rates would be a Pipes-esque service with
an SLA. I've been in enterprise consulting long enough to know that whether
you're Ingersoll Rand, Haas, an REIT or Cravath, sanitized, guaranteed data is
worth a lot, integration is worth even more.

~~~
infinite8s
When you refer to Pipes-esque - are you talking about yahoo pipes?

------
thetmkay
I've been using Fieldbook a little bit, and even playing around with their
API.

It's a great product I'm going to use more. Big fan - there have been several
side projects where I've wanted to use Google Sheets as a prototype DB - with
the simpler API and better relationship model, I'm going to use Fieldbook from
now on.

------
dsr_
It looks very nice. But I can't integrate it into a project if I can't
guarantee that it will run even if Fieldbook-the-company changes business
models next year. When can I deploy a self-hosted version, and how much will
that cost?

~~~
benbernard
We definitely intend to be in this for the long haul! We will always let your
data out of Fieldbook, we already support CSV downloads of any sheet or view,
and we are thinking about a wide variety of export and sync options to other
services / data formats.

I understand being leary of business model changes. While we can't make any
guarantees in the wild world of startups, we can say that we want a free tier
to remain forever, and would give plenty of warning if it were ever to change.
A little more information available here:
[http://docs.fieldbook.com/docs/security-and-
privacy](http://docs.fieldbook.com/docs/security-and-privacy)

We don't currently have any short term plans for a self-hosted version.

------
PhilWright
The user interface looks beautiful and I like the innovation for the
group/sorting/filtering. Allowing all three to be defined using drop downs
within the single area is really neat. Fast to add and compact in space.

How does it handle data types? Can you put any type of data into any cell? If
I want a column that is numbers is there anything that stops a user adding a
string to one of the cells by mistake?

~~~
jasoncrawford
By default you can put any type of data into a cell, like spreadsheets. If you
want some input validation, you can add an optional input type to a cell. So
you could set a number type on a cell, and then if someone tries to type a
non-number, they'll get an error. [http://docs.fieldbook.com/docs/input-and-
formatting#input-ty...](http://docs.fieldbook.com/docs/input-and-
formatting#input-types)

------
nekitamo
Can multiple people edit the same spreadsheet at the same time? If so, are
their changes displayed live?

~~~
benbernard
Yep! Definitely. We don't (yet) show cursors and who is connected like google
docs does, but you do see changes replicated to all windows / users in real
time. You can even see your own real-time changes from API calls in realtime
while looking at your book.

------
auston
This looks really awesome. Can you lock columns or rows to prevent people from
changing them?

~~~
jasoncrawford
Thanks! We're working on a feature that will let you share a book “metadata-
readonly”: allow editing of rows/cells but not the structure of the book
(sheets, fields, links, formulas, etc.)

Longer-term we might offer more fine-grained locking or permissions control.

------
asp2insp
This looks excellent! I recently started writing something similar for my
phone since I needed something more flexible than the standard todo/gtd apps.
Do you have plans for a 1st party mobile client?

~~~
jasoncrawford
Right now there is basic mobile web access. Definitely going to do a native
mobile app!

~~~
asp2insp
Great to hear! I've been playing with the product for a few minutes and I
really like it so far. Lots of very nice touches! I think I found a bug -- If
I give 2 columns the same name, the resulting JSON field gets overridden:
[http://i.imgur.com/KA9mAeI.png](http://i.imgur.com/KA9mAeI.png)

Maybe display an error if I name 2 columns the same? Or disambiguate somehow
in the JSON?

~~~
jasoncrawford
Correct, we don't handle this case right now and one of the fields will get
shadowed. We'll handle this more gracefully in the future; for now we
recommend unique column names :-)

------
jasoncapriati
I've used Fieldbook a few times. It is incredibly neat.

------
snehesht
It's an interesting idea, However if it's not self-hosted then I think their
reach of customers is very limited. We all know most of the businesses run on
spreadsheets and most of them don't want to share that information with
anyone.Unless you handle this problem with run time encryption or provide a
self-hosted version It's difficult to land lot of customers.

------
Nazariy1995
This is so awesome. Easy to use, set up in seconds, and is mobile friendly.
Nice! Can't believe no else has something like this.

------
teamrating
Its not that difficult to use Google Spreadsheets as a database - here's an
app I put together in a couple of hours to allow people to rate players after
a soccer game - currently used by a reddit sub:

[http://www.teamrating.com](http://www.teamrating.com)

~~~
jasoncrawford
Nice!

One of the key advantages of Fieldbook is actual relational support. You can
create a relational model by “linking” sheets, and then linked records are
returned by the API.

Also, the Fieldbook UI is more suited to being used as a database than
spreadsheets are. It's much easier to do queries, for instance, and
sorting/filtering won't mess up your book.

Lots more on Fieldbook vs. spreadsheets here:
[http://docs.fieldbook.com/docs/what-is-
fieldbook](http://docs.fieldbook.com/docs/what-is-fieldbook)

------
zubairq
Congratulations Jason. it looks awesome and has come a long way in the last
year.

------
tyingq
Looks like the beginnings of a QuickBase competitor, which would be
welcome...Intuit's pricing model is terrible.

I had high hopes for DabbleDB before Twitter bought them and shut it all down.

~~~
medell
I went down the road of working with QuickBase, meeting their implementation
consultants. It was classic old school software company. Left hand not talking
to the right, bloated, unresponsive, just trying to sell you.

TrackVia is another interesting alternative, they started as an Excel
replacement (and very good one at that), but have since gone more towards
mobile and simplicity in the new version.

Knack is in the conversation as well, but it seems like Fieldbook & AirTable
are now the ones to watch.

------
cpr
How does this differ from DabbleDB, which seemed to have all this and more?

(Sadly went nowhere and subsumed by Twitter.)

~~~
jasoncrawford
I didn't learn about Dabble until after it was gone, so I only know it from
watching the demo video and talking to one of the founders. The spirit is
similar and I think we have a lot of shared vision.

I think our UI for creating links (relations) and for doing queries is unique,
both were developed through hundreds of usability tests to be both accessible
for novices and satisfying for power users. Check it out.

------
oceanallin
The UI is just gorgeous IMHO.

Can you share which frameworks you used ? Did you use a template for the front
page ?

~~~
jasoncrawford
Thanks!

Not much of a framework on the front end, but we do take advantage of
Bootstrap and Backbone.

------
Im_a_throw_away
That looks like a really well made product, awesome UI!

What are some real world use case for using fieldbook?

~~~
benbernard
Thanks! We actually have a few user success stories, and most of our templates
are directly from use cases we've seen people use.

Here is a story of Data Analysis tracking sales leads:
[https://medium.com/@fieldbook/data-analysis-tracks-sales-
lea...](https://medium.com/@fieldbook/data-analysis-tracks-sales-leads-in-
fieldbook-696be751f693#.jpoj426f9)

And here is one about how Continuum Analytics uses us to track their
professional service work: [https://medium.com/@fieldbook/continuum-analytics-
manages-pr...](https://medium.com/@fieldbook/continuum-analytics-manages-
professional-service-work-with-fieldbook-a0ecfeb617a5#.w0zix0qae)

------
marvel_boy
Anyone remembers similar product DabbleDB? Or I'm too old?

~~~
jasoncrawford
Yup, we've had a few conversations with Avi, one of the Dabble founders; he's
been helpful with advice and feedback.

------
orliesaurus
is this a bit like sheetsu?

~~~
michaeloblak
It's someway similar. The difference is that Sheetsu.com use Google
Spreadsheet as a storage.

------
DHJSH
It would be nice to get something modern to replace what people used to do
with FileMaker. This may be it.

~~~
triangleman
Hi DHJSH, I just wanted to let you know that you have been "shadowbanned",
which means all of your comments are dead on HN by default. I vouched for this
comment to make it visible, but mainly in order to reply to you and let you
know that you have been banned.

------
m0rganic
Disclaimer: early Kinvey engineer here.

Doesn't sound too far off from Kinvey and Parse except for the fact that MBaaS
services have been around a lot longer and have much more robust mobile and
web SDKs.

~~~
jasoncrawford
We don't think of it as BaaS. Instead, we think of it first as a spreadsheet-
like UI, and it also has an API.

The use cases people have been most excited about need both. For instance, set
up a configuration database or CMS for your app--an engineer can create the
schema and read via the API, then anyone on the team can view and edit the
configuration.

With the BaaS offerings I've seen, you get the database and API, but you have
to build any UI you want yourself, including any web or admin UI.

~~~
m0rganic
>With the BaaS offerings I've seen, you get the database and API, but you have
to build any UI you want yourself

Not true, you get a spreadsheet data grid like UI out of the box.

They are more general purpose - that is true.

