
Basic Personality Changes Linked to Unemployment - skorecky
http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2015/02/personality-unemployment.aspx
======
jared314
Being picked last in playground kickball hurts. That doesn't change when you
trade a playground for an office.

Social acceptance is a human need, like thirst, hunger, and safety. People
will kill for acceptance.

~~~
swayvil
But of course we don't kill, we just feel stress and anxiety. And then,
eventually, the stress goes away. We get used to being an eternally-broke
marginal citizen. We hang out with the other marginal citizens. We work on our
software projects and collect foodstamps.

~~~
cheatsheet
Maybe it's accepted over time, or maybe it isn't. Maybe a lot of time makes it
easier to deal with losing literally a chunk of yourself. But I don't think it
does.

"It's that if you want to make a human being into a monster, deny them, at the
cultural level, any reflection of themselves."

~Junot Diaz

When I left graduate school, I came home for three years with no one that I
could have the kind of intellectual connection with I had at college. It was
like I was speaking a foreign language to my family and coworkers. Of course,
I could go on the internet and talk about my computer stuff, but it's not the
same when you are with people you trust your understanding of your knowledge
with.

It's scary, and I'm still clinging to my own sense of self, even though I
don't get to know whether it's still there, every single day. But I won't be
marginal.

~~~
crpatino
It sounds like you really need to learn and switch gears, man.

Your family, friends and coworkers are what is _real_ in your life. I know
it's probably not your fault, but graduate school has this nasty effect of
absorbing every bit of mental "energy" from the students. Your connection to
the rest of your life gets starved and your identity becomes whatever you
research.

Then, if you don't happen to be from the very lucky who get tenure, you get
thrown to the wolves into a world that cannot and will not understand you. I
could tell you of the time that I almost cry in my first (grossly
overqualified) job because I could not figure out how to use the damned phone.

I am not telling you to leave behind whatever is you found in graduate school.
You can always make a special place for it in your life. But the way forward
is to make your life broader, by nurturing aspects and relationships that have
been neglected so far (or creating new connections if some of the older ones
got broken beyond repair).

At the end, you will become a happier and more interesting human being! :)

~~~
cheatsheet
I can love both family, friends, coworkers, and research. It's a slow process
of the accumulation of a lifestyle. It doesn't happen over night, and I can't
force it. That's the biggest thing I've learned since leaving college.

------
fr0styMatt2
The first time I got made redundant was devastating. I'd only been in the job
two or so years but it was a place i really loved working at. It greatly
affected me and was an intense three months. I hadn't been jobless
involuntarily before that.

The second redundancy, after nearly 8 years, was surprisingly different. I
guess it's because I'm older and wiser.... maybe. "You are not your job" is an
easy thing to say to yourself but I think you have to go through the
experience of being jobless to really internalize that. I think that's what
made my second redundancy different.

i'd come out of that job having learned a lot and had gained a lot of
confidence as an engineer. Losing the job didn't feel like losing a part of
myself so much as the first time.

One of the most helpful things for me came from a 'career transition' course
that my employer paid for me to go to as part of my redundancy. The
instructor/presenter was talking about people they'd worked with previously
who had spent months engrossed in their job search to the neglect of other
things. When asked what their biggest regrets were, one had given an answer
along the lines of "I've spent the last six months totally immersed in my job
search when I could have spent this time with my kids". The point they were
getting that is that in a way, the time you get from a well-paid redundancy
might be a rare opportunity and you should take advantage of it to do the
things you want to do but never had the time. Certainly look for a job, but
don't make job seeking your existence. Ofcourse you have to have the luxury to
be able to do that, but I think it's a good philosophy even just to remind
yourself that your life always involves more than just a job.

~~~
l33tbro
This is why Maslov's hierarchy of needs is not authoritive. In my experience,
having financial security and being socially altruistic have not been mutually
exclusive. Same goes for your example with family. You can be bummed about
being out of work, but that doesn't have to undermine the opportunity it
presents to spend quality family time. Yea, this is where my cliche point
about "balance" comes up.

------
teamhappy
I'd really appreciate it if people would stop phrasing headlines like that. As
far as I can tell, "linked to Unemployment" in this context means unemployment
is an example of external forces influencing our personality. Did I get that
right?

------
jokoon
From my experience, I just agree with the title. I've never held a job, I am
29, I live on welfare in france (thanks for that), and I already have the
mindset of somebody who is a marginal. I already thought about living in the
streets.

I am currently an intern, thanks to some schooling program for the unemployed,
and god do I want to go back being unemployed. I can't even bail out because I
would need to reimburse the schooling program, which is 5500 euros. I was so
excited of having the opportunity of trying again to be part of society, to
have some reason to get up in the morning, to see people, but I was very naive
about myself and about the schooling program I was offered. I would have
better contributed by picking up trash, but in this country, even those jobs
are difficult to get for some reason (I guess the government would not like
having all the education which was given to me, go to waste because of the
economic context).

I still have this desire to make my own video game in my basement though, but
I barely have the mental resources to do it. My girlfriend hates me for being
unemployed, so it makes things even worse for my self esteem. I feel pushed
and sometimes I'd want to kill people who still argues that civilization need
some form of class system. To me, civilization only meant getting welfare,
getting porn and online video games. Not a system I have utter confidence in.

The schooling program I'm in aims to teach people web programming in 1 year. I
already had programming skills before that (from a public school program where
I failed my exam), so I learned nothing, and I hate php/java/mysql with
passion.

~~~
perdunov
Maybe, you just do not want to work.

Actually, it is the most natural desire for the human as it is for animals
from which we have evolved - to not want to do anything when you do not have
the urge.

Animals can look very busy, but if you change their evolution-formed instincts
that force them to do so, they would stop immediately and would just lie down
and do nothing.

It is interesting to note that having a requirement to work may be just a
drawback of the current society. When the AI eventually arrives, there may be
no such requirement anymore.

~~~
jokoon
I think you're correct, but in this case, how do I justify it in the context
of today's society ? No government nor politicians will agree that
unemployment has its place in civilization.

Most people today consider that everyone should work, that work is good for
the soul, and necessary for the well being of the economy. When you think
about it, civilization is built on employment.

Me, I think I might want to work if I set my own goals and if society can be
okay with it. The problem is making that work get out in the world. I might
just work for the same reason a neanderthal just toys with sticks, fire and
stones.

------
skorecky
Being let go and thus unemployed for a month or so really messed me up. I
really didn't know why it affected me so badly until I read this article. It
makes sense but also shows that there is a lack of support for people that
have been laid off.

~~~
trentmb
I haven't even been fired- I'm six months out from (finally) graduating, and
the only offer I've gotten I couldn't afford to take. I'm losing my mind.

~~~
cwal37
Hey, I took a look at your profile, and saw your resume. Coincidentally
enough, I'm actually a fellow UIUC grad, although not in CS or engineering.
I've applied to a lot of different jobs and internships in the past few years
as I went through grad school, and I definitely notice a few things about your
resume that could use some fixing up. If you want to chat about that my email
is my name at gmail.

One major trick to applying is to not preclude yourself from jobs, but let HR
do that. Apply to anything that interests you, even if you don't exactly meet
the criteria.

EDIT: I was a bit casual, but it's bothering me, so I'll be serious. I
guarantee your resume is hurting you, and I'm willing to help.

~~~
AlfaWolph
That's very kind of you to offer that to someone you don't immediately know.
'Felt compelled to tell you that since it made me smile.

------
keithpeter
_" With respect to conscientiousness, the longer men spent without jobs, the
larger their reduction in this trait, which is also tied to enjoying one’s
income, according to the researchers. [...] The researchers theorized that
women may have regained some conscientiousness by pursuing non-work-related
activities traditionally associated with their gender, such as caregiving."_

Just wondering if voluntary work would help with these indicators? Anyone got
any idea about why conscientiousness is linked to enjoying income for men in
the study?

~~~
Falkon1313
I have no idea, but a wild guess would be that easy-going types tend to get
their rewards otherwise, and don't care as much about steady income. They're
more likely to let their money pile up while not bothering to buy things or
pay the bills but also more likely to just blow it all on something
unimportant. OTOH, highly-conscientious types get pleasure from paying the
bills on time, buying themselves rewards for their work achievements, and
having a steady well-managed cash flow.

Another study
([http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/staff/alex.wood/cons.p...](http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/staff/alex.wood/cons.pdf))
says "Conscientious people experience greater drops in life satisfaction
following unemployment".

Taken together, one could hypothesize that with extended unemployment, some
people adapt (decrease conscientiousness) to reduce the suffering caused by
unemployment and learn to get their rewards otherwise.

I'm curious how volunteer work would fit in there too.

------
motters
Having been unemployed on a few occasions for non-trivial lengths of time I
think it's unlikely that my personality changed significantly as a result.
However, those experiences were "character building" and changed my political
outlook. When you're in that position much of the corruption, waste and false
beliefs within society become far more obvious.

------
aj91fl48znv3mpk
I could easily be a statistic in this report. Unemployed for a long period of
time and living with people who would rather ignore me than watch a show
together or share cooked meals. The madness grows slowly stronger and does not
relent.

------
jeffehobbs
Who has paid for these studies? They have a distinctly corporate/HR air to
them (as does the OCEAN personality trait model).

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits#cit...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits#cite_note-11)

UPDATE: The OCEAN personality model was created by two guys working in the
personnel dept. of an Air Force Base in 1961. So, take this with a grain of
salt -- this model is optimized to rate folks working together in a miliary
organization.

~~~
perdunov
I also dislike the very term 'unemployed' because it is meaningless and
derogatory.

If I have some savings and want to work on my own projects for a year, I am
what - unemployed?

They want to view people as some sort of robots with their terminology and
primitive models.

~~~
CmonDev
Exactly, nobody ever says that a CEO, politician, or a rich owner are
unemployed. They are "pursuing other interests".

------
RhysU
Would be interesting to see the same study performed on graduate students at
various stages (pre-Masters to Masters, Masters to Candidacy, Candidacy to
Doctorate, Doctorate to Post-Doctorate vs Doctorate to Industry).

------
mrcactu5
I think you'd be pretty agreeable if you were strapped for cash for more than
2 years

