

Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich" - aichcon
http://blogmaverick.com/2009/08/13/the-most-patriotic-thing-you-can-do/

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jonallanharper
"[when that tax bill comes your thought should be]... a recognition that in
paying your taxes you are helping to support millions of Americans that are
not as fortunate as you."

Right, so I bust my ass in school, non-paid internships, contracting as much
as possible, and 50 hour work weeks on my startup... and the reason I'm making
money is b/c I'm more "fortunate" than the slob who is still playing video
games in college after 6 years and the idiot who chooses to have kids he can't
afford?

OK, got it... making wise choices makes you "fortunate"... and it's
"unfortunate" when idiots who make poor decisions just don't make quite enough
money to afford cigarettes, bling for his car, and health insurance.

Another serious flaw in this article, besides his inept philosophy: money
stolen from us by the government is not "helping to support millions of
americans"... it's being completely wasted by GovCo, for the most part, or at
minimum used very inefficiently.

~~~
mikeryan
Wow that's cold.

It's a bit ugly that you can loop everyone that can't afford healthcare,
mental health issues or drug addiction into a single bucket and dispose of
them.

Those who can afford to spend 6 years in college playing video games, rarely
are the ones who are doing it on the gov't dime. Its the kids that grow up in
crappy underprivileged neighborhoods with poor school systems and no guidance
are the ones that need help. But hey its their parents fault right?

You sir, compassion less, and cold spirited and are the one I can do without.

~~~
jonallanharper
And, you sir, live in a false reality.

I bet you'd love to tell us how socialism would work if we "just gave it a
chance." Let me guess... it "hasn't been implemented properly" yet right?

~~~
mikeryan
Wow which false reality is that?

I'm well aware of how much I pay in taxes, its significant and getting worse
since I started my own business this year.

But I believe that my taxes fill a need society and in fact even have a
pragmatic slant (one which Cuban raised) in the Keynsian model more taxes =
more spending by gov't and the only real way to stimulate economy.

Win/Win I help people and make more money with a better economy.

~~~
solutionyogi
Show me one example where government is able to stimulate economy. First, you
will have to clarify what 'stimulating an economy' means. Once you have
specified what it means, you will have to explain how each dollar spent has
somehow stimulated the economy.

I think you fail to comprehend how complicated modern day economy is. Have you
heard of 'I, Pencil' story? <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6vjrzUplWU> The
gist is that no single person knows how to make a pencil. Because of co-
ordinated efforts of thousands of people, working for their own goals, makes
it possible to manufacture pencil and deliver it at your local store where you
can buy it for dollar a piece.

Do you really think that few hundred bureaucrats in DC can decide how billions
of dollars should be spent so that economy is stimulated?

------
nuweborder
Cuban is well known for speaking his mind, and he lived up to his reputation
in this interview. Thats what we are all out here to do. And thats what this
country is built on. Entrepreneurship. Creating something from nothing, and
making the process better, more efficient, and productive each time.

Mark Cuban said that we need to make a boatload of money, but does not say how
exactly to do that. At this point, you cant go by the Mark Cuban book. Dont
try to duplicate what he did. Aside from the rare occassion of the German
based ebay copycats whom later became reviered VCs, The European Founders
(<http://www.europeanfounders.com/index.html>), you have to create your own
path. What do you enjoy? Where is there a void in the market? Etc.

But, hopefully, you are not trying to "Get Rich Quick". Create your
entrepreneurial venture off of passion and a genuine interest in what you are
creating. Dont need it to blow up and produce millions over night, because you
have to pay your electric bill. Thats not the way.

~~~
timr
_"And thats what this country is built on. Entrepreneurship. Creating
something from nothing, and making the process better, more efficient, and
productive each time."_

I'm pretty sure that if this country was "built on" a concept, it was
intellectual freedom. Entrepreneurship is perhaps a nice consequence of that
legacy, but let's not confuse which end wags the dog.

~~~
nuweborder
Without entrepreneurship, there would be no Ford, no Microsoft, nor many other
"must haves" that we enjoy today. Entrepreneurship created the automobile, the
computer as we know it today, the website that we are discussing on right now,
and all the startups that Y-Combinator supports.

Allow me to rephrase. Entrepreneurship is what our economy is built upon. Not
intellectual freedom. Granted, intellectual freedom created peanut butter, the
lightbulb and more. But no one was attempting to create these items for sales
purposes initially. Peanut butter was invented by George Washington Carver,
not Jiff.

And I wouldnt say that intellectual freedom is what built this county. As so
many whom actually put in the man hours, hard work and physical suffering to
build this country, did not have any intellectual freedom, and died in the
process.

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nazgulnarsil
demonizing the productive rich along with the hereditary wealth parasites is a
fatal mistake for a civilization IMO.

~~~
ckinnan
There's a huge difference between the rich and high income earners. The
rich/wealthy often favor higher taxes because their income is from tax-free
bonds or from control of assets, where income is deferred and usually part of
a one-time transaction, like sale of a company, where taxes can be avoided.

High-income earners, on the other hand, often have negative net worth (school
and housing debt). The rich want high taxes on the high-income earners because
they don't want the upstarts competing with them for control of assets...they
want to make it harder for the next wave of entrepreneurs to build disruptive
or competitive businesses.

It is ironic, but taxes on new capital formation directly benefit those who
already have capital.

~~~
mcslee
This is an astute and important point. I have always found it flawed that a
middle-class American family making around $100K in income will pay more taxes
than someone with $10M+ portfolio of municipal bonds.

With that said, I agree with Mark Cuban's philosophy here, and do not get
personally upset with paying taxes.

I don't think the solution is to complain about taxes on high income earners.
Rather, there just needs to be more pressure on instituting equivalent taxes
for other forms of wealth generation (i.e. get rid of tax-free bonds).

------
jhancock
"Make a boatload of money. Pay your taxes. Lots of taxes. Hire people. Train
people. Pay people. Spend money on rent, equipment, services. Pay more taxes."

Don't most wealthy people hire lawyers and lobbyists to help them not pay
taxes? Don't they also move jobs overseas to reduce how much they pay to their
own economy?

Cuban seems to be living in a dreamworld.

~~~
pchristensen
They pay much more in taxes despite the fact that they do this. By "pay more
taxes" he means that the more money you make, the more taxes you have to pay.
I'm sure that if you asked him, he'd say it's also your duty to pay as little
tax as required.

~~~
run4yourlives
_They pay much more in taxes despite the fact that they do this._

I'm pretty sure Warren Buffet proved otherwise:

[http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/tax/article1996735.ec...](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/tax/article1996735.ece)

~~~
fallentimes
You're talking percent, he's talking gross.

~~~
run4yourlives
I don't want to speak for him, but I'm pretty sure Cuban is talking percent
too, given that he seems to be encouraging the paying of full taxes sans
loopholes.

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dschobel
_and your 3rd [thought] should be a recognition that in paying your taxes you
are helping to support millions of Americans that are not as fortunate as
you._

So just to clarify-- if you become successful, it was a combination of hard
work and good fortune but if don't become successful, it was just poor
fortune?

~~~
zackattack
I think so.

Consciousness is a gift through fortune. Through consciousness, you eventually
come to a realization that you should work hard and endeavor to become
successful. The less fortunate never reach such a level of consciousness.

~~~
dschobel
I agree that both are necessary but insufficient conditions independently but
I've always been irked by the fact that the hard work/motivation part is
always immediately dropped when you talk about average working stiffs.

It's like some bizarre fear that by admitting that _some_ people are simply
feckless and/or unmotivated you risk marginalizing everyone hasn't "made it"
whereas in reality incentives are a huge part of the productivity equation (as
anyone with a knowledge of basic economics can attest).

~~~
mcslee
Your point is well taken that it's easy to treat fortune differently in
different situations. Hard workers that don't make it are "just unfortunate."
Lazy people that win the lottery are "just fortunate." Hard workers that make
it "earned it."

However, I think randomness (i.e. "fortune") generally plays a much larger
role in all of our lives than we care to admit. The American obsession with
hard work and merit fuels this misconception. Our brains are also somewhat
intrinsically hardwired to intuit simple causes and effects, even when none
truly exist.

If you're interested in the topic, I highly recommend reading "The Drunkard's
Walk" by Leonard Mlodinow. [http://www.amazon.com/Drunkards-Walk-Randomness-
Rules-Vintag...](http://www.amazon.com/Drunkards-Walk-Randomness-Rules-
Vintage/dp/0307275175/)

------
decode
He makes an argument for making money, but not for getting (or being) rich.
What societal advantage is there to one person amassing wealth? It seems like
Cuban is saying that if you create wealth, you can pass it on to others. So
wouldn't that mean that it would be better for society if you were just a
conduit for wealth, paying your employees, contractors, and suppliers as much
as possible?

It seems like the most beneficial thing would be to "Hire people. Train
people. Pay people. Spend money on rent, equipment, services." but not skim a
bunch off the top for yourself.

------
iterationx
Getting rich by creating American jobs that manufacture goods that we sell to
Asia and re-balancing the trade imbalance would improve the dollar strength
and create American jobs, that'd be ok. If I get rich by putting Applebees out
of business because I made a slightly better boneless buffalo wing, nothing
would be gained.

------
321abc
_"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."_ \-- Samuel Johnson

 _"The most patriotic thing you can do is get rich."_ \-- Mark Cuban

Sounds about right.

~~~
anamax
You're mis-reading Johnson. He's not saying that patriotisim is bad - the word
"last" is important.

Asimov's "Violence is the last resort of the incompetent." has a similar trap
for those who don't read critically.

------
zackattack
I would also like to point out that Cuban has incentives to have his fan base
think of him as patriotic: he wants patriotic people to consume his NBA
entertainment and think well of him.

Just because someone posts something on their blog, does not mean it is what
they truly believe. It is only what they want to appear on their blog.

------
noelchurchill
I'm almost certain there there may be flaws in this though but:

Isn't there a limited monetary supply at any given time? So the richer I get,
the less rich other people become. Even after I pay rents and salaries and
everything else, if I'm richer than I was before, then there is less wealth
available for everyone else.

~~~
jonallanharper
You've highlighted one of the most important fallacies in the modern liberal's
mindset, in my opinion...

PG touches on this: "The Pie Fallacy" in <http://paulgraham.com/wealth.html>

My 2 cents on it: Wealth is created. Currency is a limited resource that
represents that wealth. The value of a single unit of currency is increased
every time more real wealth is created. Wealth is created when goods or
services that people actually want are produced.

~~~
Locke1689
_You've highlighted one of the most important fallacies in the modern
liberal's mindset, in my opinion..._

Completely unnecessary partisan drivel. The man asked a question and you made
a useless generalization that shows, more than anything else, that you don't
understand your opposition's socioeconomic philosophy.

However, you are correct, currency is simply a tangible representation of
value. Wealth is not a zero-sum game. Consider a screwdriver. Physically, this
screwdriver is simply its raw materials. However, by organizing the materials
in the right way, this screwdriver becomes more than the some of its parts and
increases its value accordingly. Thus, by selling this screwdriver for its
perceived value, one can create wealth in the difference of costs vs. revenue.
Of course, a simplistic example, but one that answers the question fairly
well.

Edit: Maybe I should cite pg and get on the bandwagon...

~~~
jonallanharper
And, you are correct; I don't understand the socialist philosophy, it's
incredibly illogical.

~~~
Locke1689
Ah, well, at least you associate "liberal" with socialist. Lots of progress
made today...

