
Office Life Is Destroying Your Butt - otp124
https://melmagazine.com/your-office-life-is-destroying-your-butt-b0b19a08cf3d
======
shawn
Toilet paper might also be causing hemorrhoids.

Consider that our bodies were not evolved to use toilet paper, and that
hemorrhoids are virtually unheard of in third-world countries that lack TP.

(I haven't confirmed that latter claim. It's just something I read once,
somewhere.)

Anyone who's been sick and had to go to the loo multiple times in a row will
notice how painful it becomes. I'm not sure it would be painful if washing was
used rather than rubbing.

My comment here is full of assumptions and wildly unsupported by evidence. But
I thought it might be best to post it so that it can swiftly be disproven or
shown to have a grain of truth.

The topic is gross, but it's a serious issue that you don't think much about
until suddenly you have to.

~~~
allthenews
I've read that the culprit is not toilet paper, but the face that we sit when
we shit, while we ostensibly evolved to squat. So the bowels don't straighten
out as they should, and the excessive pushing leads to pressure which
gradually causes blood vessels to bulge over time.

Also, baby wipes work for adults too.

~~~
fastbeef
Don’t flush baby wipes, or anything except fences or toilet paper. They clog
drains and interfere with the sewage treatment process.

~~~
amelius
I sometimes use tissues when I run out of toilet paper. I hope that's not a
problem ... (?)

~~~
billh
Tissues are not designed to break down in water like toilet paper is.

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nilkn
Instead of trying to create a fancy standing/sitting desk workflow, I've
personally tried to just take more breaks throughout the day. Unless the
weather's terrible, even a brief five minute walk does wonders.

It's also a great way to get some alone time and mull over what you're working
on without distraction. Just as when I was a student studying mathematics and
doing a bit of research, I've found that with programming sometimes a greater
clarity of thought is achieved when you have nothing but your mind -- no
pencil, no paper, no computer, nothing to write on, nothing to doodle on. It
forces you to consider only ideas that you can fully manage in your head.

~~~
Moru
I think most jobs benefits from this, not just office work. A short time away
from work, quick walk does wonders for your mental health. Some people smoke
because that gives them the excuse to get outside for a few minutes now and
then :-)

~~~
dvfjsdhgfv
That's very true, but when you think about it, it's kind of strange that you
need an excuse in the form of a cigarette in order to refresh your mind.
People somehow seem to think that a cigarette break is OK since the person is
"doing something" but if the same person just takes a walk it might be
perceived as slacking.

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superasn
I think a solution for this is alternating between standing and sitting desk
with the recommended time interval being 20 min sitting, 8 min standing and 2
min just generally moving around.

Instead of buying a transitioning desk I just hooked 3 monitors to my desktop
where 2 are sitting and 1 (lg 2560px) is standing and created a small delphi
app that switches the monitor for me every 30 mins. So far it has done some
good for my back but i feel that doing this sort of circus destroys my focus.
Still health is over everything so I'm sticking with it.

~~~
crooked-v
I just have a standing desk with an extra high drafter-style chair, and
everything carefully adjusted so that the keyboard and monitor work for both
sitting and standing.

~~~
frankzinger
I wanted to do this recently but I couldn't find a chair tall enough. I need
the seat to be at around 95cm (37.4") otherwise my elbows are too low. The
tallest chair I could find was 90cm (35.4").

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plg
talk to any nurse, surgeon, janitor, etc, and they will tell you that working
on your feet all day is horrible for your health

working on your butt all day is also horrible for your health

it’s as if ... some middle-ground moderation-like situation might be optimal
... my god who would have guessed

~~~
S_A_P
[https://www.runnersworld.com/health-
injuries/a20860422/stand...](https://www.runnersworld.com/health-
injuries/a20860422/standing-all-day-is-twice-as-bad-as-sitting-for-your-
heart/)

A quick google brings this up. It seems to me that being alive is the leading
cause of death.

~~~
emodendroket
Well, what do they say about lying in bed all day?

~~~
copperx
I've always wondered about that. It can't be good for your muscle tone, but my
guess it's healthier than sitting or standing.

~~~
namibj
There are ways to take most pressure of your spine, while still allowing you
to sanely use a mouse/keyboard (the later has to be split). It's mostly a
fitted seat with a semi-fancy headrest, the latter has to be designed to keep
your head from rolling to the side. Also you need slightly channeled armrests,
which need to be adapted in extend/channel depth depending on how far your
hands have to move. If you use a steno keyboard, likely not at all, if you use
a graphics tablet, likely much further.

You still might need to move every once in a while though.

~~~
jm547ster
Got any examples of what this kinda of arrangement looks like? I’m having
trouble visualizing

~~~
copperx
I have no idea either, but perhaps something along these lines?
[http://www.ergoquest.com/store/p20/Zero_Gravity_Chair_2b.htm...](http://www.ergoquest.com/store/p20/Zero_Gravity_Chair_2b.html)

~~~
namibj
About this, less hip angle, and with the arms about the same height as the
torso (and as such necessitating a split keyboard). For a suitable arm angle
you need the head to be higher, which requires some closely fitting head
support, which has to even out the pressure on your head. Think a recliner
with armrests so your arms can most comfortably type/mouse, and a foam around
you neck so you head doesn't roll off to the side. The screen is angled at
about 45 degrees downwards, to match the head so you only need to move the
eyes.

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imgabe
Minor quibble, but halogen-lit offices? Who is sitting under halogen lamps all
day? Most office lights are LED these days or maybe fluorescent if they're
older.

~~~
Moru
Leds can flicker even worse than flourescent. Test it with your mobile camera,
shove it up to the lights real close and see if it starts showing banding all
over the screen. The calmest light you get is halogen or a normal lightbulb of
the burning rust type.

~~~
mastax
The solution is to have DC powered lighting circuits so you don't have
terrible $0.50 AC/DC power supplies in every bulb. It'd be nice to have DC
circuits for electronics, too, but that's probably a lost cause.

~~~
jacobolus
I’m hoping that USB Type C connectors become ubiquitous and people start
installing USB C outlets in addition to AC in many wall sockets. Many small
appliances can switch to DC and get rid of their transformers. AC will still
be needed for e.g. vacuum cleaners, washing machines, refrigerators,
loudspeakers, blenders, toasters, hair dryers, etc.

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3pt14159
> If you’re the sweaty biker type, cycling to work[...] "By cramming that hard
> bike seat into your perineum [you may make hemorrhoids worse and impact
> urine flow.]"

Though I can't stand the writing style, sitting while cycling is a real
problem, especially if you're male. I bike year round here in Toronto, about
200 kms a week for most of the year, and I didn't know. It took almost a year
for the ED to go away once I committed to standing while cycling 100% of the
time. I was only in my late twenties when it happened and I figured it was
something only old men get. I'm super happy I happened to come across a paper
that talked about it.

The side benefit is that it made my arms huge and I've got real abs now.

~~~
KozmoNau7
If you get numbness or ED from cycling, you need a better saddle! Don't just
"suck it up", you need to find a saddle that puts your weight on your ischial
tuberosities or "sit bones", not your soft squishy perineum.

Soft wide saddles are actually worse for this. You need a relatively narrow
saddle, with a deep cutout in the middle.

And you need to have it adjusted right, so you end up sitting correctly. And
if course you should slightly vary your position over the course of a ride.

A good bike shop _will_ be able to find you the perfect saddle and fit.

~~~
3pt14159
I kinda like biking standing up now though. I have a single speed with an
insane gear ratio so I'm constantly flying and standing makes that easier.

I feel like the road runner sometimes.

Beep beep.

~~~
KozmoNau7
You found an alternate solution, which also works :-)

But if you ever feel the need to sit down again, taking the time to find the
perfect saddle is well worth it.

------
anu7df
Or may be just change the way we sit?
[https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/08/13/6360250...](https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/08/13/636025077/to-
fix-that-pain-in-your-back-you-might-have-to-change-the-way-you-sit)

------
quadrangle
This really worked for me:

(A) a cheap, DIY standing desk arrangement

(B) a cheap "stability cushion" to stand on so I'm neither standing totally
still nor doing some repetitive exercise-machine

(C) squatty-potty (off-brand, DIY options are fine, lilypad or nature's
platform style for better real-deal)

~~~
siruncledrew
Concerning point (C):

I've found pooping with your feet on your tippy toes like a ballerina also
does the trick (while still sitting down of course) to achieve the elevation
of your legs to be in more of a squat position when pooping.

If you ever go to China and have to squat to poop, that's also a good catalyst
to finding the right squat position to best suit you.

~~~
quadrangle
Although that's certainly better than nothing, it's really not the full deal
at all. Even the squatty-potty which is _way_ beyond just tip-toes is only
about half-squatting. I've compared and the full squat is the real deal.

People who want to do it (even in prep for a China trip) better work on simply
spending time squatting in general. Apparently, westerners with sit-toilets
actually lose the flexibility to do a relaxed, flat-footed squat _at all_.

------
jarjoura
Go swimming! I do, and it takes some gravity off your body for a bit. <3

~~~
shrimp_emoji
<3

------
ukulele
> Staying in a seated position for too long allows gravity to pull more blood
> down into the pelvis

I could concede that more blood might end up in the pelvis, but surely this is
not the reason?

~~~
coldtea
Why "surely"?

~~~
ukulele
Because the torso is upright either way, and gravity doesn't care if you're
sitting or standing

~~~
coldtea
Gravity does the pulling, and sure the blocking is caused by the lack of
movement and the sitting position that obstructs the free flow of blood.

I guess we could say it's not the gravity itself, and it would be correct, but
also like saying it's not the bullet that kills you, it's the hole.

------
markatkinson
I'm 31 and my lower back has started hurting and giving me issues, especially
while sleeping.

I always assumed this would only happen much later and technology would have
advanced enough by then that I could have gotten a robotic lower back. But
here we are.

This is even with doing a stairwell run every hour and standing up quite
often, and sitting at what some article stated was the best angle, 135 degrees
or something.

I also do Pilates... So even with all of this sitting for 14 hours a day has
caused back issues for me. Sorry to deviate from the toilet topic. Luckily
that is one department where I seem to be healthy :)

~~~
jmpman
I had a similar issue. After encouragement from my wife, I visited a
chiropractor. A few adjustments later, and my back pain is dramatically
reduced. My chiropractor isn’t pushing holistic medicine or other garbage, or
I would be running from the experience. There are many charlatans out there
looking to fleece the desperate, so be careful.

~~~
geerlingguy
There are plenty of good chiropractors out there, especially (I find) ones who
do more sports-related work. I still regular MDs about any long term issues,
but especially for something sudden or a small injury like falling funny or
wrenching a back muscle, a chiropractor can help take off the edge and train
muscles for better posture.

But stay away from the ones who think they can treat medical issues with
spinal adjustments or weird arts.

------
01100011
Never had a serious issue with hemorrhoids until I got a Nintendo DS. Once I
started camping out on the toilet, I developed internal and external 'roids.

------
makecheck
I prefer to take frequent walks, which also helps to clear my head and forces
me to do other exercises like climbing stairs. A “standing desk” just seems
like a really complex solution that doesn’t even address any part of the
problem except the sitting.

Also, standing desks are really weird in a cubicle situation where suddenly
your neighbor is towering over the wall for an hour, peering into your space.

~~~
ghthor
Standing desks in open offices make me feel uncomfortable. I get pretty bad
anxiety when I feel like I'm bothering someone else so I tend to try and only
stand when my neighbors are standing.

At home office desk is 100% standing, DIY table mounted on top of 2 wooden
chairs. If I'm getting tired of standing and leaning around, time for a walk.
My productivity is so much higher at home compared to my companies open
office. Wish I could convince them to let us just make team "rooms" in the
open office, ala Valve style.

They bought us all standing desks with wheels, but were not allowed to roll
them around. VP of engineering jokes that after I brought it up all the desks
would be wheel-less come Monday. Little does he know that if those wheels
aren't gone next week my desk is moving were ever I find a space I feel more
comfortable, anarchy in the engineering wing, eyes open, no fear, be safe
everyone.

~~~
markrages
Reminds me of the Peopleware story about cubicles being sold as modular
furniture, but God help you if you actually reconfigure the cubicles to suit
your team's organization.

~~~
ghthor
It's like giving a kid a prebuilt Lego model and expecting them to never take
it apart and build something else. No sane parent would expect that, I wonder
why I keep all my creative ideas to myself and struggle with motivation
problems and execution inititive...huh... can't be that I have zero agency
granted to me in arranging my workspace. Heh

------
DrBazza
Standing desks aren't yet (2016) proven to do anything:
[https://www.cochrane.org/news/health-effects-sit-stand-
desks...](https://www.cochrane.org/news/health-effects-sit-stand-desks-and-
interventions-aimed-reduce-sitting-work-are-still-unproven)

~~~
natalyarostova
Anecdotal proof often precedes formal proof. If the cost is low and there
exists potential expected benefit it can still be rational to do it.

~~~
greenhatman
Sadly, it's generally quite expensive.

~~~
crooked-v
It doesn't have to be noticeably more expensive than a normal desk
arrangement. Just get a static standing-height desk (longer legs, no special
motorized stuff), and a drafter's chair with a seat adjustable to barstool
height.

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emersonrsantos
Well, standing cause varicose veins - because a close relative just needed
surgery because of standing too long - and she doesn't have the healthiest
relationship with her butt, so what gives? Are standing desks really healthy
or not?

~~~
adanto6840
I had a cervical discectomy at an unusually young age, was largely attributed
to poor sitting/posture.

My neurosurgeon for the procedure was fantastic, but he basically said "humans
aren't made to be in _any_ position for prolonged periods of time". His
recommendation was a sit/stand desk and to occasionally but consistently be
changing things up -- re-positioning, standing/moving, using an exercise ball
occasionally, etc..

------
syntaxing
I recently bought a Mi band 3 and a convertible stand up desk at work. There
is an idle feature where it alerts you when you do not have enough steps with
the hour. It has done wonders for me in terms of changing my sitting habits.

------
mamon
>> Humans evolved to stand upright and outrun their predators

Forgive my ignorance, but are there any predators that we actually can outrun?
Pretty much every four-legged mammal is faster, except maybe elephants.

~~~
krackers
I thought it wasn't in speed that humans excel but rather endurance. That is,
we wouldn't be able to escape a lion chasing us but we can hunt down deer/etc.
until they collapse from exhaustion.

See
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting)

~~~
rm_-rf_slash
Bingo. Over a short distance a tiger or cheetah would maul a human, but over a
longer distance a prey species like a gazelle would tire out and eventually a
human would be able to catch up with it.

~~~
Groxx
So since we evolved to chase our prey rather than run from hunters, maybe we
should program by putting our computer on a gazelle, and we have to catch it
in order to write code for the [time period]?

It'd certainly lead to more thinking before writing, maybe the tradeoff would
be worth it.

~~~
saagarjha
If you’re fine with waiting a couple days for the gazelle to tire out before
you can catch up to it, sure. And that’s if you know the signs to follow where
the gazelle is.

~~~
mamon
From the linked Wikipedia entry it seems that it usually takes 2 to 5 hours,
and 25 to 35 km chase. Not sure why you say "couple days". And hunters usually
know the signs to follow to track a gazelle, so that's also non-issue.

------
emersonrsantos
Related XKCD: [https://xkcd.com/1329/](https://xkcd.com/1329/)

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AlphaWeaver
This article seemed only to list bad things, which seemed to be just about
everything you could conceive of doing, without listing any solutions...

~~~
rexpop
That's fine. When problem solving, it's important to lay out the situation
clearly before delving into solutions that may only mitigate part of the
problem.

------
derptacos
Squats!

~~~
pen2l
I have been doing weighted squats for about 6 months now and oh my god I am so
happy with how big my butt is. I cannot wait for it to become even bigger by
next year as I continue doing squats.

~~~
psynapse
Throw a few heavy deadlifts in there. You'll develop some hard glutes.

~~~
pen2l
I do hex deadlifts, I like how they develop my upper back and neck.

I have a computer nerd neck... I’ve been thinking how to solve that. I think I
should do front squats rather than the standard.

~~~
psynapse
What do you mean by computer nerd neck? I do shrugs, which hits the traps, but
I find my neck is a bit thicker too.

Front squats isolate the quads more - I prefer to do back squats, then isolate
smaller groups with quad extensions and hamstring curls; the latter being good
for the glutes too.

~~~
pen2l
I mean that I have really bad neck posture: [http://bellefleurphysio.com/wp-
content/uploads/Forward-Head-...](http://bellefleurphysio.com/wp-
content/uploads/Forward-Head-Posture.png)

And I’m trying to find exercises that work in fixing this

~~~
andrewingram
Stretch your chest muscles, do face pulls. Do rows and deadlifts. If your
posture is really bad, don't train (strengthen) chest until you've improved
things a bit and have done plenty of stretching.

Then use postural reminding aids (don't use a brace unless a physio tells you
to), I put a small massage ball behind each shoulder blade and the chair when
i'm working, if they fall I know i've slouched.

I went from people openly telling me I needed to fix my posture, to being
credited with great posture in about 4-6 months. My posture actually still
needs work, because I have pretty noticeable anterior pelvic tilt, but the
forward-neck issues are mostly gone.

~~~
pen2l
Awesome, thanks for the tips.

I have anterior pelvic tilt too— what are you doing to correct this?

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darkerside
People seem to have a harder time recognizing satire these days

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ddebernardy
What about if you're using a standing desk?

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myth_drannon
To summarize the article - work kills!

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cjhanks
A somewhat odd article, but I like it.

~~~
CryoLogic
A somewhat odd article, butt I like it as well. Hemorrhoids suck.

------
rainbowmverse
At least someone is.

