
How to spot a psychopath - ALee
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/non-fiction/spot-psychopath/
======
shakna
I'm a diagnosed borderline-psychopath. (Some non-complex emotions, in contexts
where strong emotions would be expected).

The article does get caught up in it's continual comparisons to killers.

But for those with no criminal history? I'd still call it a disorder.

I find it exceptionally difficult to interact with the average person on a
daily basis. Well, more tiring than overly difficult.

I'm not normally interested in how your day is, so why should I ask?

Fantastic, you had a child. I've accepted that, no need to keep talking, I'm
sure you're proud. I feel something akin to pride in my own daughter as she
learns to clap and walk. But I don't know why you'd care to listen to me
saying that.

To be part of society though, I've developed rules, and they help me fit in.
Smiling, laughing, being quiet and sympathetic.

Unfortunately, I also need to regulate some heavy self-control.

I should attempt to convince someone of the right choice. They're a human
being, they deserve their independence.

But it's so much simpler to manipulate them into doing what I want.

It can short-circuit days of discussion with clients.

But, the system of rules I made myself don't allow it. I had to include
morality in these rules, because if I have worth, then others must, from a
rational view.

I'm not free of morality - but it does require active effort to abide by it.

~~~
1_player
It's funny, I agree 100% on being totally uninterested in those topics (i.e.
small talk), yet I think I'm on the other side of the spectrum -- an empath.

I don't care about your child or your day, but if something's bothering you,
I'll most probably notice it and.. empathise with it.

~~~
shakna
I wish I could be you. Life would be much simpler.

I can't empathise, I can only sympathise.

It becomes a bit obvious and somewhat awkward when trying to reassure friends
and family.

I can usually tell what's bothering a person before they can, but it's
difficult to "cheer up" someone (without ignoring their right to feel) when
you can only vaguely understand the pressures of their emotion.

Though I guess you might not always enjoy being able to feel what others can.

~~~
1_player
(edit: not sure who downvoted you)

Life's complicated whatever's the emotional spectrum.. Being an "empath" helps
making friends, putting people at ease and being a good listener. Although
being aloof doesn't help at all :)

I think I might've known a couple people I could bet they're borderline
psycho/sociopath, but they definitely didn't seem to understand other people,
and they just steamrolled through them and life, lying, manipulating, without
ever noticing. So seems to me you're quite functioning compared to them.

After all, being unable to totally and completely understand other people is
part of the human experience.

~~~
shakna
It's always good to hear about others, and the way we all seem to move through
life haphazardly, and create this wonderful thing called society. Maybe even
make it better, with all our variations.

> So seems to me you're quite functioning compared to them.

Good to hear it. I was lucky, diagnosed at a young age, and people around me
to help teach me how to fit in, and the patience to keep trying.

\---

Always nice to hear stories from another perspective.

> After all, being unable to totally and completely understand other people is
> part of the human experience.

I couldn't agree more.

> (edit: not sure who downvoted you)

Shrug. This kinda stuff tends to be sensitive to people. Internet points
aren't important enough to get in the way of a good conversation.

------
pmoriarty
_" If someone’s brain lacks the moral niceties the rest of us take for
granted, they obviously can’t do anything about that, any more than a colour-
blind person can start seeing colour."_

That might be "obvious", but isn't necessarily true.

Many people these days believe that the brain is the mind, or the mind is an
epiphenomenon of the brain, and that psychology and brain function are
intimately connected, or even the very same thing. On this view, to the extent
anyone has free will and is able to change anything about themselves, they are
changing their brain.

One method of change that would be interesting to explore is seeing what
effect "empathogenic" drugs like MDMA (or perhaps other psychedelics) have on
so-called psychopaths. It might just be possible that they are in fact capable
of feeling empathy, but those feelings aren't consciously acknowledged or
easily accessible to them -- but some powerful psychoactive substances like
MDMA or psychedelics might be able to grant them access to their subconscious
and to learn to be aware of emotions they've either been unaware of before or
have denied.

Of course, such attempts should be tried only under the supervision of an
experienced therapist trained in psychedelic therapy.

~~~
amagaeru
In case anyone else is wondering, this isn't generally available as an option.
Yet.

MAPS has a goal of 2021 for prescription.

>MAPS is undertaking a roughly $25 million plan to make MDMA into a Food and
Drug Administration (FDA)-approved prescription medicine by 2021.

[http://www.maps.org/research/mdma](http://www.maps.org/research/mdma)

~~~
pmoriarty
It might not be legal or sanctioned by the mainstream psychological community
yet, but it's definitely an option (if you can track down a therapist willing
to do it).

Psychedelic therapy has been practiced virtually since psychedelics started to
be widely used in the mid-20th century. In the 1950's and 60's, LSD and other
psychedelics were used therapeutically. In the 1980's, efore MDMA became known
as a party drug, it was used therapeutically. Indigenous people have
traditionally used psychedlics in a sacramental context in which goals and
results could arguably be seen as therapeutic.

When these drugs were made illegal, the above-ground therapy stopped, but some
therapists dared to continue their work despite great risk to themselves. To
give just one example, a book called *"The Secret Chief Revealed"[1]
chronicles the work of one such underground psychedlic therapist, Leo Zeff,
who led hundreds of therapy sessions with MDMA.

Today the practice of psychedelic therapy continues, and there are even
university programs that teach it. It's still mostly underground, but is
starting to rise aboveground and becoming a real option as research in to
psychedelic therapy gets positive results and positive media coverage, as more
doctors and patients become aware of it, and as the so-called Psychedlic
Renaissance grows.

[1] - [https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Chief-Revealed-Myron-
Stolaroff...](https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Chief-Revealed-Myron-
Stolaroff/dp/0966001966/)

------
biocomputation
I always find these articles interesting, especially the idea that most
psychopaths aren't particularly dangerous. If we look at mental illnesses as a
whole, I feel like untreated depression and bipolar disorder are FAR more
costly for American society.

Also, I think it's somewhat dreadful that the tech industry seems to
elevate/celebrate psychopathic traits such as ignoring rules, impulsiveness,
and lack of empathy. I'm pretty sure that are people with psychopathic
tendencies at the top of the ladder of some of the giants.

~~~
Fnoord
> If we look at mental illnesses as a whole, I feel like untreated depression
> and bipolar disorder are FAR more costly for American society.

Yes, of course, reportedly psychopath % is 4% of society, but the number of
serial killers is a mere fraction of that 4%. Psychopaths or not, the number
of serial killers is also very small compared to the number of depressed
Americans, or obese Americans for that matter. What matters is: 'can a person
function in society?' If no, that's a loss for that individual as well as for
society. The victims of the serial killers are just [often] innocent to the
victim which clouds our judgement on severity. Compare terrorism victims with
traffic accident victims.

> it's somewhat dreadful that the tech industry seems to elevate/celebrate
> psychopathic traits such as ignoring rules, impulsiveness, and lack of
> empathy.

3/3 match with antisocial personality disorder. Quoting Wikipedia:

"Antisocial personality disorder (ASPD), also known as sociopathy, is a
personality disorder characterized by a long term pattern of disregard for, or
violation of, the rights of others. An impoverished moral sense or conscience
is often apparent, as well as a history of crime, legal problems, or impulsive
and aggressive behavior." [1]

It also doesn't help Hare mixes up sociopathy and psychopathy in his works.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorde...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder)

------
Fnoord
Article is a book plug.

I recommend The Psychopath Code by the late Pieter Hintjens [1]. It is
frighteningly analytical & accurate with many analogies, examples and
references to work with. Bonus points for using security terminology (he
refers to the psychopath as Mallory). The book is freely available as PDF, and
a physical copy can be bought as well. Changes can be suggested at gitbook
[2], though the author (a long-term member of the open source community)
passed away oct 2016.

Although anecdotal I also enjoy reading posts from self-proclaimed psychopath
"Athena Walker" on Quora on the subject.

[1]
[http://hintjens.com/blog:_psychopaths](http://hintjens.com/blog:_psychopaths)

[2]
[https://www.gitbook.com/book/hintjens/psychopathcode/details](https://www.gitbook.com/book/hintjens/psychopathcode/details)

~~~
ivraatiems
The Psychopath Code is a fantastic reference for how to deal with toxic
people, but Hintjens (as he readily admits) had no knowledge of modern
psychology or psychological research and no training in that field aside from
self-teaching and "in the wild" experience. His definitions for who a
psychopath is and how they behave are thus completely out of sync with how the
rest of the world identifies such persons. He does not distinguish, for
instance, between different kinds of personality disorders - Narcissistic
Personality Disorder, Borderline Personality Disorder, etc. - and psychopathy,
even though they are quite distinct. It is not accurate to call the people
Hintjens describes "psychopaths," but simply "toxic" or "pathological."

That doesn't mean the Code is not valuable - it is extremely useful. But it is
not a good reference for learning about psychopathy in particular.

(Full disclosure: I personally had some brief communication with Pieter
Hintjens a few months before his passing, where we discussed precisely this
issue in the context of some family members of mine diagnosed by professionals
with certain disorders, none of them psychopathy. While the conversation was
fascinating, it ended when I suggested that it was valuable to ask not only
"what does this person do that harms people?" but also "what motivates them to
do this?"; a psychopath does not share motivations with a narcissist or
someone with BPD, for instance, and it didn't seem he was willing to accept
that distinction.)

------
gscott
Psychopathic individuals do have boundries. Most want to avoid prison and have
friends.

My mother was severely ill with schizophrenia and thought Nazi's lived in our
attic and were going to kill us. They talked to her about how they were going
to do so.

Living in this situation I find myself different then others. No desire to
kill or go to prison though.

------
mindslight
Of course to make sure, you have to tie them up and throw them into a pond. If
they float, they're a psychopath. If they drown, then they weren't.

------
jiaweihli
M

