
Ask HN: Do you wear ear protection or noise cancelling headphones while working? - louprado
I am considering purchasing Bose&#x27;s noise cancelling headphones to block out constant street noise while I work.  Is that overkill given that I do not plan to listen to audio ? Has anyone tried earmuffs worn at gun ranges instead and if so are they uncomfortable if worn for prolonged periods ?<p>Just to share, there is a loud traffic control device right by my office window that plays a cuckoo sound whenever the north&#x2F;south walk light is on. It plays from 6AM to midnight at wildly varying volume levels. I find it comically ironic that I am slowly losing my mind to the sound of a cuckoo.
======
oblib
I'm gonna second what steve1011 says. If it's just dampening down noise you're
after good earplugs are probably better than the best noise canceling
headphones.

I wore industrial grade earmuffs and earplugs most all day long when I did
metal work. That's not the same as wearing them in an office environment all
day but I didn't find earmuffs terribly uncomfortable and I just looked at few
newer models that look pretty close in design and weight as the Bose headset
for about $30.

Both plugs and muffs have pros and cons. Plugs are less conspicuous, and muffs
are easier to get on and off.

My own experience is that they work about the same (if both are high quality)
and I generally wore both when doing metal work because the loud hammering and
grinding I did was especially damaging to our hearing and there was a very
noticeable difference than when using only one of those.

The earplugs I used were made out of "memory foam" (like the bed mattresses
use). There are other types I tried but they were not near as good.

~~~
tedmiston
The memory foam earplugs sound interesting. Do you have a link or the brand
you used for reference?

~~~
davidbanham
This is the kind of thing the parent means. They're very commonly available.

[http://m.homedepot.com/p/3M-Orange-Disposable-Ear-
Plugs-80-P...](http://m.homedepot.com/p/3M-Orange-Disposable-Ear-
Plugs-80-Pack-92800-80-6DC/202691611)

------
roryisok
I made my own "noise cancelling" headphones by buying a set of ex army ear
protectors and wiring in the drivers from an old pair of Sony headphones. They
are very effective. Once in work I watched everybody in the office stand up
and put on their coats, then start to wave at me. I was very confused until I
took off the headphones and realised the fire alarm was going off

~~~
jlebar
Man, I would love to try these out. Are they available for purchase?

~~~
tetraodonpuffer
there are plenty of similar things available, when playing drums I use these,
which is a similar concept

[http://remoteaudio.com/products/hearing/high-noise-
headset/](http://remoteaudio.com/products/hearing/high-noise-headset/)

they seem to be available at several online stores and are fairly comfortable
to wear, although at work I prefer simple foam earplugs.

~~~
Anasufovic
Yeah, for an office you are generally fine by looking for "closed" headphones
meaning they block out external sound and contain the headphone sound better.
It's similar to noise isolation using sealed earbuds except I find it much
more comfortable.

------
mike_h
Noise-canceling headphones aren't as effective as passive noise blockers. If
you don't want to wear earplugs all day, use the earmuffs meant for heavy
machinery or shooting:

[https://www.amazon.com/Ear-Defense-3000-Muffs-
Earplugs/dp/B0...](https://www.amazon.com/Ear-Defense-3000-Muffs-
Earplugs/dp/B01C72JGXK)

They even sell some as pretty decent headphones:

[https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004U4A5RU](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004U4A5RU)

Re: comfort, you will have to try a few pairs to see which ones are best for
you; most seem to be designed more for safety and maintaining a seal than for
wearing all day without fatigue.

------
overcast
My office has white noise generators to drown out the open office layout
conversations. So I wear noise cancelling headphones, to cancel the white
noise generators. It's insane, but keeps my sanity. Otherwise, it's like
you're on an airplane all day.

~~~
legodt
Can you please elaborate on the reasoning your company gave for such a wild
idea? Have any of your coworkers commented on this? Is this some sort of trend
to compensate for poor office planning? I thought the point of open plans was
to reduce hardware costs, not introduce more equipment! You are right, that is
absolutely insane

~~~
loco5niner
Not OP, but my office has it. And yes, it is insane and is a result of poor
office planning. Unfortunately, I can't elaborate because they did not give
any reasoning.

------
tedmiston
So I recently got the Bose QC30 and while they will help with average traffic
noise, the active noise canceling doesn't work super well for higher pitched
or more abrupt sounds like the cuckoo clock.

I've been playing brown noise or something similar through them on top of the
active noise cancellation. I use my own command-line program [1] or Noisli in
Chrome for this.

Yes, it feels kind of wasteful to buy premium headphones for the express
purpose of _not_ listening to music, but this is the best solution I've come
up for working in an open office.

I'd be interested to hear how others handle this problem, as I've always been
very sensitive to noise and can program way more effectively when background
noise is minimal and consistent, like a fan.

[1]: [https://github.com/tedmiston/zero-
noise](https://github.com/tedmiston/zero-noise)

~~~
jseliger
Earplugs are one possibility:
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0044DEESS](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0044DEESS)
though I don't know how well they'd work or how comfortable they be for hours
at a time. I wear them in noisy bars, clubs, or theaters for shorter periods.

Beyond that, it's hard to imagine a better reasonable solution than noise-
cancelling headphones. I first got a pair in college, when I was editing and
writing grant proposals while living with roommates who often (and reasonably)
wanted to watch movies, hang out with friends, etc.

~~~
semi-extrinsic
Have you (or someone else on here who owns active noise canceling headphones)
ever A/B tested them against a cheap closed-back set of headphones, like the
$25 Sennheiser HD202?

I ask because I've used some HD202s for five years now in the office, and when
listening to low/normal levels of music, I literally cannot hear a person
standing next to me saying my name loudly; people have to tap my shoulder all
the time. Even with no music at all, they remove a lot of sound/noise and I
have to take them off to talk to people.

I'm now looking to upgrade to the ~$150 AKG K271s, these are closed back
recording studio headphones specifically designed to not bleed whatever you
are listening to into the microphone you are singing into. I'm told they give
a good comfort boost over the HD202s, which are a bit uncomfortable after 3-4
hours, as well as a sound quality boost.

The same goes for professional DJ headphones; imagine the need for sound
isolation for someone doing live mixing of music at a nightclub. Neither DJs
nor studio applications make use of active noise cancelling, which tells me
you can get very far without it.

~~~
jmiserez
The difference is plain as day. I currently use the closed back Beyerdynamic
DT770 with an amp for listening to music, but exclusively the Bose QC25 for
work and commuting.

The main difference between my Beyerdynamic DT770 and the Bose QC25 are:

1\. Without any music playing but with active NC on, the QC25 _feel_ like
open-back headphones. The feel is airy and like a weight is lifted from your
ears in the QC25 vs. muffled/dull/pressured in the DT770. You can sort of hear
your the blood in your ears pumping in the closed-back DT770, a bit like what
you would hear in a seashell. If you turn off the NC, the QC25 is about the
same as the DT770 without sound. If you go back to your HD202s after having
used NC for an hour or so, you'll immediately notice the difference.

2\. Sound quality is much worse in the QC25, it's not even close. No rich
lows, no clear highs, it's just a mess. Still, it's usable.

3\. However, the killer feature is that with the QC25 you can listen at
extremely low volume (think 1 bar on the iPhone) and still hear the music
clearly. On the DT770 you have to play the music louder, and I find that very
quiet music is better for focusing.

~~~
semi-extrinsic
Interesting points, thanks.

Are you sure point 3 is not mainly that the QC25 has much lower impedance (I
think 32 Ohms) versus the DT770 which is much harder to drive?

~~~
jmiserez
Yes, of course I mean adjusted for actual volume played through the speakers
[1]. In a quiet room (living room) the DT770s are great at low volume as well,
but as soon as you add something like the office AC (white noise) the
difference in lowest minimal volume where you can still hear all the detail is
remarkable.

[1] Which for the DT770 is more bars on the iPhone, although I usually use a
USB DAC/Amp to drive them.

------
ccrush
What you're looking for is the radio headsets that airport ground support
crews use. More than 20dB attenuation, headphones built in, designed to be
worn an entire shift. If someone can deal with multiple Rolls Royce turbofans
nearby while wearing these, you can too. Be careful to buy one with two
drivers (some ground crews use the single headphone driver model to have an
ear free to hear other sounds), and get a proper adapter to plug them into
your audio source. Active noise cancelation only works in the 900Hz and lower
range on consumer bose headphones. You can try the Bose pilot headsets if you
want, but they are much pricier. You can get a good used ground crew set for
about $100.

------
steve1011
Earplugs are way better for noise isolation (i.e. blocking out noise)

There are a number of different types out there, including ones that can be
custom-molded to your ear canals for maximum comfort and sound reduction.

For the price of a new pair of Bose headphones, you could buy hundreds of
pairs of ear plugs or even a handful of custom molded musicians earplugs.

~~~
tedmiston
I'd be curious to hear if anyone has done custom molded plugs before and how
much better they really are. Especially if they make a difference in noise
isolation and/or cancellation, or if it's more about comfort.

In any case custom tips aren't that expensive relative to the benefits, so
it's something I'm considering.

~~~
scarecrowbob
I occasionally play music in bands with in-ear monitors. I use a $100 pari of
shure earbuds (se215), and they work quite well.

I don't play in these kinds of situations often enough to warrant paying
200-800 for a pair of custom molds and drivers, but I know people who do. I
have been told that the main benefit of custom molds is better (higher-
fidelity) bass response and are typically more comfortable, and typically more
expensive IEMs will also have more drivers for different bands in the audio
spectrum.

As far as noise isolation, the Shure's are plenty good enough for listening to
low-volume music while, say mowing the lawn.

Or, if the drummer is being annoying in a rehearsal I have unplugged them to
great relief.

Isolation doesn't, I think, get much better-- there is a lot of conduction
through other pathways than the ear canal.

After I played around with a couple different tips (these are very
inexpensive) I found that my ear canals differ slightly in size ;)

~~~
tedmiston
I had a pair of Shures in 2008 (the tips look the same today), and had a
similar experience with my ear canals being different sizes.

Mainly I used the foam tips which isolated extremely well vs triple flange
tips, but were very uncomfortable to wear for more than ~2 hours. Is that
something you've noticed too?

~~~
scarecrowbob
I've tried all three of the cheap tips (foam, silicone, and the flanges).

I think that going with smaller is more comfortable, as are the foam ones.
Yeah, they are uncomfortable for long periods of time, but I got used to it
after a while and fiddling with the sized helped.

I am not sure how healthy it is to wear them for long periods of time.

------
jlebar
> Has anyone tried earmuffs worn at gun ranges instead and if so are they
> uncomfortable if worn for prolonged periods ?

I use such a pair at work: [https://www.amazon.com/3M-Peltor-Over-
Earmuffs-X5A/dp/B01MG1...](https://www.amazon.com/3M-Peltor-Over-
Earmuffs-X5A/dp/B01MG1KAFK)

They are pretty uncomfortable at first, but I've gotten used to them. They are
like focus pills for me -- I put them on, then take them off and suddenly
realize two hours have passed.

I am interested in these "ex arm ear protectors" that roryisok mentions.

------
lcall
I am very distracted by sounds. The best I've found so far is a combination
of: 1- 3Ms "peltor X5a" headphones (there might be better ones now, but a
quick amazon search shows some results, they are ~$25). 2- noise-blocking
earbuds underneath them (searching amazon will probably turn them up, maybe
~$15?). I think the ones I got were like foam ear plugs, but with a tube down
the middle for the sound. 3- some white-noise app (like maybe "chroma doze"
from the f-droid store, or "relax and sleep" from the play store; those are
the ones I've used).

No connection to the above but as a pleased consumer. I don't know if the
above will suit audiophile purists--I love good music but more for the
"intelligent conversation & expression" aspect than the purity of
reproduction, so YMMV.

(I look forward to reading others' comments here...but it's been a day already
so I'm posting first in case it's useful to anyone.)

This combo works for me _much_ better than the friendly Bose noise-cancelling
headphones I bought ~2000 (which, or others like them, also might be much
better now). But I read that the noise-cancelling concept is weak for ambient
(eg office) noise, because it is not constant enough for the cancellation
mechanism to pick it up and block it all fast enough. So it is more like for
airplane engine noise which is more constant.

------
falcolas
I haven't seen these mentioned yet - In Ear Monitors (IEMs)

They are a combination of earplug and speaker, giving you the benefits of
both. Good IEMs [0] will attenuate the surrounding sound by up to 25db (for
comparison good earmuffs/earplugs are in the 30-35db range, closed back/over
ear headphones with a good seal are in the 5-10db range), and provide high
quality music when you want it.

The down side is that, like earplugs, they can be a bit uncomfortable to use
until you're used to them. I tend to listen to either music or just pink/brown
noise [1] through them, and I can't hear a thing going on in the office - even
when they're doing construction.

If you really want to go all out, you can combine earmuffs with music - there
are ranges from some inexpensive 3m ones (some of which include a radio,
others a 3.5mm jack), up to those used by pilots and ground crew. They're also
in the 25db reduction range; I have an old pair of David Clarks which are
insane (though heavy, they're made to wear all day).

[0] Shure and Westone make some great IEMs; make sure to pick up some memory
foam tips.

[1] I usually use the heavy rain sounds in the "White Noise" app, but there
are free generation websites out there too.

------
alexmr
Check out extreme isolation headphones:
[http://www.extremeheadphones.com/](http://www.extremeheadphones.com/)

My co-worker has them and likes them. They're basically earmuffs + audio

------
abhikhar
i just bought bose Q35. though audio quality is avergae but noise cancellation
is awesome. it is pretty steep price(349$) but it is worth increase in
productivity for me as there is no other solution available in market better
than this( i tried sony and momentum before but it doesnt fit my needs well)

~~~
blisterpeanuts
I second the QC-35. It's the most advanced headphone I've ever used --
maintains a list of paired devices and connects with whichever one is nearby
and emitting audio. It talks to you and tells you which devices are currently
connected (can turn that off using a phone app).

The noise cancellation is excellent, the audio quality is acceptable to me
(perhaps audiophiles are more finicky) and it also works nicely as a wireless
bluetooth headset for phone calls. It's replaced my audio 'phones and my phone
headset, and I'm getting a bluetooth transmitter for my digital piano so I can
practice the piano wirelessly :)

Most of the time I don't play any audio through my Bose 'phones but use them
simply as a silencer during the working day; I can't really concentrate with
music playing. It's a premium priced product, but well supported and seems to
be good quality construction and top engineering. The design is over-the-ear
and the ear cushions are very soft and luxurious.

They're rechargeable and last at least all day on a charge. This turned into a
mini-review but that merely reflects my enthusiasm at having found a good
silencing headset at last :)

------
penetrarthur
I bought noise isolating headphones today to deal with office noise. I heard
very good stuff about Audio Technica ATH-M50X and they are really good indeed.
I can definitely recommend those.

~~~
davidandgoliath
As someone who is _extremely_ noise sensitive, I disagree: ATH-M50X's are
'okay' for audio, and pitiful for noise mitigation. They offer almost zero
reduction in outside audio, but are okay from an audio standpoint.

(Yes, gun range ear mufflers will work, but you might look awkward. I have a
sets of those when I really need to concentrate)

Here's my recommendation:

Shure SE215-K. In ear studio monitor. _amazing_ noise blocking ability, and,
you can play some music to boot. I have literally wore mine down from years of
office/motorcycle/road trip use. They have replaceable cables too.

Caveat: These can be uncomfortable for prolonged use (I'm talking ~20 hour
road trips) as they're in-ear, but seriously get a set. Now that they're $99
on amazon, vs. the $299 I paid for them years prior -- it's a no brainer. In
fact, I'm going to get another set this very moment.

------
atmosx
Just beware that using any kind of headphones on a daily basis will severely
damage your hearing no matter what.

~~~
roryisok
Evidence please?

~~~
atmosx
That's like asking evidence that sugar consumption leads to obesity but pick
the one you like the most:

[https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=headphones+hearin...](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=headphones+hearing+loss&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp=&oq=headphones+hearing)

~~~
detaro
No article on the first two pages supporting your claim. There mentions of the
fact that headphones are capable of producing dangerous volumes (which is an
important point), but nothing to indicate that headphone use in itself is
damaging.

~~~
atmosx
I took music for granted tbh, that's why it seemed self-evident.

~~~
akerl_
It's not even that "headphones + music == hearing_loss", it's "headphones +
too_loud_music == hearing_loss". But, given that "too_loud_music ==
hearing_loss", it seems that headphones aren't super related.

~~~
roryisok
exactly. if you listen at a normal level there's nothing to suggest that
there's any hearing damage at all.

------
Zelmor
Ask for another desk, one with a farther flight from the cuckoo's nest.

