
Five-year-old passes Microsoft exam - alexbash
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30054140
======
ChuckMcM
Nice, that and $6 will get him a coffee at Starbucks :-). I think it is great
that the kid's Dad is allowing him to pursue his ideas, but its a challenging
place to be in without additional support from the family. The challenge is
that his feat is called out because he is '5' not because the exam is
particularly hard. So later when he completes the Cisco one and he's 10 it
won't be as 'good' because hey, he is 10. If expectations and understanding
aren't managed the fact that the kid is older and won't be "special" any more
can be a problem for them later.

I hope his father continues to foster a life long love of learning and does
not get get hung up on the whole 'prodigy' narrative. In college there was a
12 year old girl in my physics class who was miserable. She had an eidetic
memory and could regurgitate any fact or formula, but she was deeply unhappy
with her life and the path (and expectations!) her parent put on her. I
wouldn't want that for any kid.

~~~
speeder
When I was a little kid I too aced anything I wanted to, without trying
(granted I never signed up for particularly hard stuff, like this).

My parents, and all their adult friends were convinced I was going to be the
"Brazillian Bill Gates" (I think mostly because I was the only person
interested in computers at that time in their social circle...)

Now I am 26, unemployed, and desperately looking for a coding job... Now
everyone is interested in computers, everyone is a gamer too (when I was a kid
when I said I played computer games people looked at me like if I was an
alien), and I did not even entered a CS course, so I am just a regular jobless
coder.

It is making me very, very desperate to not fall into depression, specially
when I compare my life now and my life as a kid, and realize that my life is
essentially stagnant since I was 16, the same things I had while 16, is what I
have now, except health (that now is worse).

~~~
fibonachos
The folks in the various programming subs over on reddit tend to have good
advice for landing that first programming gig. There are probably several
posts that cover situations similar to yours, so do a little searching and
reading before you post.

/r/programming would probably be a good jumping off point.

~~~
speeder
I already had jobs before, but I spent all my money then to pay university
debt (that thankfully is now 100% paid... but I still wish I never went to
college, it made more negative than positive difference on my life).

My problem now is that the startup where I am working ran out of money, and I
have no money (I don't own a car, house, or even a decent cellphone! I am
using a borrowed dumbphone right now).

I sent hundreds of resumes, but companies don't even invite me to interview.

~~~
dudurocha
Hey Speeder, where do you live in brazil? I could probably help you out. I
work in a VC firm and know several it companies in brazil.

~~~
speeder
I live in São Paulo right now, but I ran out of money and will have to move
back to my parents home soon.

~~~
gonzo
We employ someone in Sãn Paulo. Send a resume.

~~~
speeder
Hello! Send to where?

------
leonardinius
I also like the way the article ends, e.g.

    
    
      "Ayan says he hopes to launch a UK-based IT hub similar to
      America's Silicon Valley one day, which he intends to call
      E-Valley.
      He also wants to start his own company."
    

It's sets both the tone and quality level of discussions regarding IT in the
general public.

~~~
melvinmt
Haha, when a 5 year old says this, it should be the cue to unplug the computer
and tell the kid to play outside.

~~~
cbd1984
Yes, because you need to be a certain minimum age to have a dream.

~~~
cbd1984
And again my premise is validated by down votes.

------
gman129
The lack of normal social life from being a geek in the eyes of other kids
will likely do the kid more damage then the benefit he will receive from being
a child computer wiz.

Let kids be kids and don't try to make them adults early, it usually doesn't
turn out to be as glorified as the adults think it will.

~~~
mikeash
Maybe if _adults_ like yourself would stop trying to push conformity on their
children, young prodigies wouldn't have such a hard time.

I was pretty sharp with computers and math when I was that age, or a bit
older. I wasn't passing certification tests (there probably weren't any
Microsoft ones at the time) but I was programming in BASIC and modifying games
that we played in the classroom and jumping ahead on my math. My peers were
supportive. At around the age of 12 I changed schools and suddenly being smart
was bad just because it was a different group of children with different
attitudes.

Kids shouldn't be pushed too much but they also shouldn't be held back just
because you think it will make them an outcast. _That_ attitude is far more
damaging.

~~~
gman129
Obviously i wasn't advocating the opposite extreme of telling a kid to do
thing just to 'fit in', kids should be encouraged to have a healthy curiosity
towards their interests.

My point was that parents should have in mind that when they send their kids
off to college at the age of 12, or in this case let them take tests that are
suited for 22 years olds they are likely doing more harm then good. Often
parents get excited by the fuzzy feel of my kid is a genius, but forget what
damage they are really doing.

~~~
mikeash
College at the age of 12 I can see. Suddenly they're put in an environment
where everyone is substantially older and more mature, and with nobody their
own age around. That's a huge leap.

But taking a test? That's not even remotely similar. In that case, the damage
comes not from a strange environment or lack of peers, but simply from a
conformist attitude that comes from people saying this stuff shouldn't be
done. It's self-fulfilling.

~~~
ddebernardy
Taking that kind of test is far worse imho. (Been there, done that...) It
gives the parent a warm fuzzy "our kid is a genius" feeling as they encourage
their child to do so, and the feeling oozes back onto the kid as an "I am a
genius" anti-social attitude. Peer rejection won't be far behind, and there's
absolutely no way anyone can argue this is good for the child with a straight
face.

~~~
mikeash
That attitude doesn't require the test, nor does the test require the
attitude.

The real problem is that "I am a genius" is seen as being automatically anti-
social. "Smarter" is seen as "better" and that separates them. Ultimately it
comes back to the conformist attitude I'm arguing against. _That_ is the
problem. Get rid of that, make it acceptable to be different, and passing a
test won't matter.

~~~
ddebernardy
A test makes that attitude materially more likely.

Encouraging kids to be smart and do smart things? Go for it.

Labeling them as smart? Sure, as long as you don't forget to teach them a
healthy dose of humility.

Constantly labeling them as _smarter_? Uh oh... did I mention humility yet?

Making them pass tests to _validate_ that they're smart? Kids don't need or
want that; the parents do. It's a recipe to set their kid's life ablaze until
young adulthood -- or later.

~~~
mikeash
You're still assuming that "smarter" means "better" and that "better" means
"separate".

What if we held the attitude that "smarter" was just another aspect of the
genetic lottery, like your height or the color of your skin? What if we taught
our children that it doesn't matter what you are, it matters what you _do?_

Why should telling a child that they're "smart" be any worse than telling them
that they're "tall"?

The problem isn't labeling them as smart, the problem is the pervasive
attitude that smart can be a substitute for other things like hard work or
kindness, and the attitude that a child who's too smart is somehow no longer
compatible with his peers.

Why shouldn't a child genius _both_ pursue extreme mental enrichment _and_
participate in life as a peer with other children of his own age? There's
nothing that inherently separates prodigies from their peers. _We make it
happen._

------
gregd
Not to take anything away from this (obviously) smart kid, but this is exactly
why less emphasis should be placed on particular "certifications".

~~~
ceejayoz
Why? If a five year old can run a marathon, does that suddenly mean completing
one isn't much work?

~~~
smeyer
It doesn't mean the certification (or marathon, or whatever) is intrinsically
easier than it was before, but it does mean you may have been overestimating
it.

~~~
ceejayoz
If lots of five year olds were completing it, perhaps. One isn't conclusive
evidence of any level of difficulty. Five year old Mozart could compose music
in a way most adults can't - that hardly means composing is easy.

------
jlgaddis
_> "The hardest challenge was explaining the language of the test to a five-
year-old. But he seemed to pick it up and has a very good memory," explained
Ayan's father Asim._

Maybe I'm just cynical but this made me think that the boy simply memorized
the questions on the some of the previous tests that have been posted on the
Internet ("dumps").

~~~
sghi
I agree that he probably did, and in an ideal world I think it would be better
if he was a bit older and had a little more knowledge of the whole subject
area. But where do you draw the line? If he memorizes some information, and
that leads to him being the 'computer expert' amongst friends and family, and
he ends up in an IT career that he really enjoys because of it, is that a bad
thing?

My first experiences were looking up basic problems online, then memorizing
them enough so that if the problem happened again I could fix it. Eventually I
wanted to dig more into the actual problem, and just like that I was hooked!

So yeah, it might be a problem but hopefully it'll lead to something
productive and if the kid actually enjoys it I can't see the harm.

------
aaronbasssett
Poor Microsoft certified professionals, I can hear the client complaints now
"What? Why do you charge so much? I can get a five year old to do your job"

~~~
electromagnetic
To be fair "You don't go to jail for using child labour" is a good reason to
me. Also tack on "and my rate just went up £10 for hearing your stupid
comment."

------
lbotos
My Parents generation talk of "mid-life crisis". Generation Y started to write
on "quarter-life crisis" (post college moving back in with parents due to no
work). I suspect this kid will suffer from "eighth-life crisis" if he keeps
this pace up.

I was doing generally nerdy things at 5 but I fear this kid will outpace
himself in a way that will lead to sadness and isolation.

Tech parents of HN, do you think this will help or hurt this young man in the
long run?

~~~
thearn4
This would be my worry too, because I've seen it in a few others. Eventually,
they make it to a place (top tier college, big name company, etc) where they
are no longer consistently the smartest person in the room, and they are
unable to cope with the sudden competition that poses.

~~~
mnw21cam
I remember the first lecture at undergrad university, at a very highly rated
university, was basically "You're no longer the smartest kid in the class, and
some of you will start to think we made a mistake letting you in to this
course. We don't make that kind of mistake."

------
barbudorojo
I would be interested in knowing what kind of program will this child create
in the next years. If his success relays mainly on his good memory then
perhaps nothing outstanding is to be seen, but it could be that there are
other great capabilities that could allow him to excel in programming.

    
    
      Perhaps we will see some very fine art of work in the foreseeable future. Time will tell.

------
bsg75
So either recruiters now have a whole new demographic to target, or
certification exams are worthless.

------
unclesaamm
"Too much computing at this age can cause a negative effect, but in Ayan's
case he has cached this opportunity."

Perfect typo

~~~
loco5niner
is it a typo? I just assumed the dad was speaking his 'native tongue' ;-) What
is the intended wording? I must be missing something...

------
chriogenix
its great the that kid is learning technology at an early age. but i really
hope its not in replacement to learning how to make friends, play and enjoy
being a kid. when i hear about how 5 year olds want to start companies it
makes me cringe.

------
Splendor
Well that's the first time I've ever seen the word "invigilators".

