
Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears - iron0013
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insight-idUSKCN1G8060
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jjulius
Headline is somewhat misleading - this applies to Chinese iCloud accounts, not
all iCloud accounts.

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noja
The headline is not misleading at all, they are doing exactly what I expected

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max76
The headline is ambiguous.

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Shebanator
Ambiguous != misleading - the latter implies intent

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spectramax
No, it doesn’t.

Ambiguous and Misleading is an _effect_ or _consequence_ of a statement.
Neither indicate any intent behind the statement. In other words, a statement
can be misleading despite of benevolent intention.

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millstone
This is from a year ago, headline should say 2018

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schappim
My first (knee jerk) thought is “I guess this is what happens when you’re
under pressure to perform better in China”; but I think there is more to the
story than we know.

I would be surprised Apple if caved on this without having a mitigation
strategy in place.

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eridius
The "more to the story" is that this is required by Chinese law, as explained
by the article:

> _In a statement, Apple said it had to comply with recently introduced
> Chinese laws that require cloud services offered to Chinese citizens be
> operated by Chinese companies and that the data be stored in China. It said
> that while the company’s values don’t change in different parts of the
> world, it is subject to each country’s laws._

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zeroname
Replace the word "China" with "Sweden" and it starts sounding like reasonable
policy.

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smsm42
No it does not. Sweden probably is less likely to horribly abuse the data to
incarcerate and execute citizens for disagreeing with the government, but the
goal of the policy would be the same - to make all data about the person
subject to the state's control. Swedish government might not be abusing this
control right now, but nobody can guarantee it won't in 15 years.

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mr_toad
> the goal of the policy would be the same - to make all data about the person
> subject to the state's control.

The real goal is just as likely to be economic - a way to protect local
businesses without actually calling it protectionism.

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smsm42
It's probably both. But experience shows control is much more important to the
state than the well-being of any businesses.

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ksec
I wish for an AirPort iOS Time Capsule. One with a 2.5" 1TB HDD, with a Sub
$199 pricing.

For $3 Dollar a month, you get 200GB iCloud, Most people don't need that, As
your iOS, Apps, Music, doesn't need to be backed up. Those takes up in between
15GB+. So if you have an 64GB iPhone, that chances are 55GB iCloud ( 50 + 5GB
Free ) is enough. That is $0.99 / month, $12 a Year, $24 for two years.

Surely a $199 iOS Time Capsule makes a much better business case than $12 a
year backup plan?

Those who don't want their government spying on them, could have use this
instead.

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intopieces
Will the user experience be degraded if the user sets their region to Hong
Kong or Macau?

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neop1x
There is no cloud but other people's computers. Don't store personal data on
other people's computers.

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zeroname
The question is, by pulling out of China as some sort of business virtue
signal, is the outcome an improvement? China doesn't need Apple and not
complying with China without pulling out isn't an option.

Let's say some major Chinese company pulled out of the U.S. market because of
the Iraq War, would the reaction of U.S. citizens, even those opposing the
war, be positive? Wouldn't politicians use it as an instrument?

Make no mistake, scary stuff is going on in China, but the solution has to
come from within China. In fact, by explicitly supporting the opposition in
China, any accusation of "evil foreign influence" is substantiated.

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KangLi
One more reason to dump Apple.

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mvid
And go to who?

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smsm42
About 1000 other phone models not manufactured by Apple? Is it some kind of
trick question that assumes Apple holds monopoly in the business of
mobile/cloud and we're not aware of it? Or there's some other point here?

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eridius
Everybody who operates cloud services in China is subject to these same laws.
If you dump Apple over this, every other choice you have is guaranteed to be
no better (and likely a hell of a lot worse) on the privacy front.

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smsm42
Maybe the point is to choose provider that operates cloud services _outside of
China_?

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vezycash
If it increases the share price, sales, maximizes shareholder value, without
backlash in home market, it's okay. /s

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mbrumlow
> they fear the authorities

authorities <\- its their country not yours not ours. Do bad things happen
there? Yeah probably, but so do bad things happen in whatever country people
are reading this post from.

Clearly countries have come about because people have different ways of
thinking of how things should or should not be done. Because of this I always
find it weird when people from one country are very concerned about another
countries citizens.

We(you) anybody can't be the police of the world. If you want to operate in
another country then you should probably follow their local laws. Any attempt
to do so will probably result in the hero (those who wish to police) to turn
in to a tyrant much worse than that we have today.

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keiferski
> I always find it weird when people from one country are very concerned about
> another countries citizens.

I find it strange when people from one country _aren’t_ concerned with other
countries’ citizens. That may or may not justify “intervention”, but we’re all
human beings on the same planet here.

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mbrumlow
Well put, and I do long for a day we are all simply just "human". But there is
enough bad in this world that the only sane way to combat it is based of
locality.

Just as I am not concerned so much with what is happening in a home one street
over, I am also not concerned about neighboring cities, states and then
finally countries. Each of these groups surly has their own set of problems to
solve before chasing after the problems of the next. So I chose to start with
my self first, then my family and move out from there.

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michaelmrose
I'm very tempted towards being snarky. This also is a logical fallacy. You can
work on your families problems and opt not to support companies caving to evil
dictatorships as well.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma)

Based on this fallacy we should never ever address any problem larger than
what to have for dinner tonight because piddling issues are ever present.

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mbrumlow
I can't agree that what I stated is a false dilemma. I am simply stating for
sake of efficiency locality matters.

I am also arguing that they are their own people. And while not all of them
agree to be governed in this manner, some large percent probably does. It is
silly to medal in the affairs of such.

