
Plastc will cease operations and will not fulfill any pre-orders - jedberg
https://plastc.com/
======
vkou
"In 2011 after buying a pair of sneakers, then a fruit smoothie and noticing a
Google Wallet icon on the cash register, Marquis asked the cashier how many
people actually paid with their phones. The cashier responded that so far 2-3
people per month were using it...

Immediately the lightbulb went on in Ryan’s mind that there was a significant
shift happening in the market from a physical credit card to digital payments.
His mind went wild as he dreamed about what the future of digital payments
could look like and within a short time after he launched Plastc." [1]

So, after shopping at a store that sells fruit smoothies and sneakers (?), and
being told that nobody cares enough about a universal credit card to use the
free Google Wallet one, he concluded that the future is a universal credit
card that people will pay hundreds of dollars for?

Only in Silicon Valley...

[1] [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bryan-elliott/plastc-one-
card-...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bryan-elliott/plastc-one-card-to-rule-
t_b_9435586.html)

~~~
xiaodown
It wasn't going to be so much that, as a card that you could put multiple
credit cards on, but that still functioned entirely like a credit card -
meaning it could be swiped in vending machines, by waitresses, and everywhere
that accepts cards, without the need for an apple pay or google pay or
whatever NFC payment hardware.

It's for people that keep multiple cards in their wallet.

~~~
abalone
_> everywhere that accepts cards_

Given the shift to chip-and-PIN, which can't be emulated like this -- Plastc
claimed they could but never demonstrated it (because it's impossible) -- they
were way too late to market with this idea even 3 years ago.

And if merchants are going to roll out new POS hardware they might as well
jump to NFC as it leapfrogs cards on convenience. And security, if your device
implements tokenization and fingerprints-instead-of-PINs (like Apple Pay and
others). Also it's built in to lots of phones and watches now.

~~~
hocuspocus
I don't know what was promised by Plastc exactly but I assume you need to
register your card numbers somewhere (like with Apple Pay) and then when you
use your Plastc card to pay (with chip and PIN or not), their back-end issues
a payment transaction using the selected card. Am I wrong?

Over here in Europe we have Curve that does exactly that, without the fancy
hardware: [https://www.imaginecurve.com](https://www.imaginecurve.com)

~~~
X-Istence
Yes, that is not what Plastc was. Plastc was like copying the data from the
front of your card and displaying it on a different one (mag-strip included).

~~~
hocuspocus
Got it. EMV is clearly an issue then, I see the problem.

------
halfcheck
My favorite part about this is that they created a webpage that essentially
called out Coin for selling out, and that they'd give you a discount if you
traded your Coin in. At least Coin was able to deliver some semblance of a
product, whereas Plastc was only able to deliver a blog post.

[https://plastc.com/coinbuyback/](https://plastc.com/coinbuyback/)

~~~
vkou
For the sake of posterity:

"Flip Your Coin For A $50 Discount

Coin has been acquired and is now defunct. Or in other words, they sold you
out. Don’t worry, Plastc’s got your back. We’re giving you the opportunity to
trade-up your extinct card for $50 off a Plastc Card pre-order. Looks like
you’re back in business! Flip your Coin Enter your email below and click
“Trade-Up” Instantly receive a $50 discount when you place your Plastc Card
pre-order Instructions will be sent to you by e-mail"

PS. If anyone got burnt twice by this, you should send me $200, and your
Plastc pre-order receipt, and I swear I'll build you a smart card that will
disrupt your wallet.

~~~
Nition
Hi, I'm interested in signing up for your card but I have one question first:
When you inevitably abandon the project and take my money, can I expect a
detailed blog post about your "incredible journey" or maybe your "amazing bet"
to disrupt the market? That's what I really sign up to these things for.

~~~
vkou
Yes. We promise to be the most accountable and transparent smart credit card
company in the world. We will be so transparent that we will spring the news
that we ran out of money and you are out of your preorder on you through our
Chapter 11 filing.

~~~
Nition
Briliant. If you do announce the news, will your posts be hard to decipher as
well? I think that's what people are looking for, that marketing spin. I don't
want to immediately understand that you're bankrupt and I'll never receive my
order; solving it should be like a fun logic puzzle.

------
danso
FWIW, the thread on Plastc from 3 years ago:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8422928](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8422928)

Edit: apparently there is a r/plastc and it declared plastc a scam 7 months
ago:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Plastc/comments/52or45/due_to_recen...](https://www.reddit.com/r/Plastc/comments/52or45/due_to_recent_news_this_subreddit_will_now_be/)

To me it's fascinating how much Plastc seems to have flown under the radar.
The initial announcement, and then almost no coverage until today:
[https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/plastc/press](https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/plastc/press)

I wonder if they even got the millions in preorders it claimed? How would
anyone know if they lied? Did they ever get VC funding, which would presumably
require me to tell the truth to investors?

~~~
thomnottom
I like that the first comment points out that they would be useless once the
chip and pin switch takes place "in a year or so".

~~~
Mister_Snuggles
Chip & Pin is an interesting beast.

Canada went straight to Chip & Pin, skipping over Chip & Sign. Since credit
cards generally didn't have PINs at the time, there was a little work on the
part of the issuing banks to assign PINs. One of my cards came with a letter
that said "Use the same PIN as you use with your regular bank card", another
came with one that said "Here's your new PIN, you can change it at any of our
ATMs" (I only have a credit card with this bank). This all happened over 10
years ago.

When I visited the US recently, I used one of my cards and the cashier said
"Oh, you're from Canada, you have to enter a PIN" after inserting it into the
payment terminal. A payment at Walmart was even easier as the terminal was
customer-facing, it worked just like it does in Canada - insert card, verify
amount, enter PIN, done.

Clearly the infrastructure is in place, since the transactions all worked, but
there seems to be some strange reluctance for the card issuers to actually use
it.

~~~
moeadham
Chip + Sign reduces 80% of classic fraud. Chip + PIN reduces ~98% (last I
heard in 2016).

Someone I spoke to at capital one said that Visa/MS decided to do Chip+Sign in
the US due to the increased support costs of forgotten PINs.

~~~
Mister_Snuggles
I'd be interested to know how much of a problem this is in Canada.

Maybe it's different here because debit cards are so common that we've been
trained to remember our PINs. My bank even uses Chip & PIN as the first step
for an in-person transaction at a teller.

~~~
mathgeek
> My bank even uses Chip & PIN as the first step for an in-person transaction
> at a teller.

Some banks do that here in the US as well, as do retailers. Those are both for
debit card transactions, though.

------
robbiep
It's borderline criminal how these guys were advertising their gear on
instagram up until very recently, as though they were literally just about to
ship. And they're not the only ones who have been advertising vapourware on
instagram as though they are a day away from shipping

~~~
jedberg
In their defense, until today they thought they were going to get funded and
actually be able to deliver.

~~~
vkou
In their non-defense, they also promised accountability and transparency. If
you are one signature away from bankruptcy, you may want to be transparent
about that, before taking un-refundable preorders.

Or you could do the responsible thing and keep preorder money in escrow.

Madoff was also only a few signatures from having his Ponzi scheme staying
afloat.

~~~
coffeemug
Don't judge them until you walk a mile in their shoes. When you worked on
something for years, you still maintain hope, and you're wrestling with doubt
every day being "transparent" isn't so easy. You literally can't say "hey, we
might go out of business" and then walk into a VC office and make a pitch.
Having to wrestle with this was the hardest part of my job at RethinkDB, and
any time I hear of someone who had to deal with it I want to wrap them in a
blanket and buy them hot cocoa (laced with bourbon).

~~~
vkou
There are alternatives to what they've done. They could have opted to not use
the pre-order money to fund their operations (Until more funding could be
secured). They could have protected it, as soon as they realized that they are
in deep financial trouble. Compare this story to that of Lily - where when the
party ended, it seems like the company has plans to give customers partial
refunds. [1]

Instead, from all external appearances, they did everything they could to do
right by themselves - not their customers.

[1] [https://www.recode.net/2017/2/28/14766780/failed-drone-
lily-...](https://www.recode.net/2017/2/28/14766780/failed-drone-lily-
bankruptcy-refund)

~~~
icelancer
>They could have opted to not use the pre-order money to fund their operations

Exactly. Sequestering pre-order money - at least some fraction of it - should
have been one of the first orders of business for any company who cares about
integrity.

~~~
pjc50
People talk about this as customers, but: surely the point of pre-order money
in many cases is precisely to fund operations - to provide the working capital
needed to do manufacturing?

If I have a hardware product that costs $80 to make (x10,000) and I'm selling
it on Kickstarter for $100, are you saying that after taking in a million on
kickstarter I should just sequester it and then find a spare $800k to do the
actual manufacturing?

~~~
mathgeek
The key difference here is that the manufacturing never actually happened.
They seem to have used preorder money to fund other steps in the process but
never actually made the product beyond some initial devices.

Kickstarter to fund manufacturing should happen at the appropriate time in the
process, if you're "doing it the right way."

------
processing
Understand launching hardware is hard but where did the $9 million pre-order
money go?

Also they just took Series A? $4.3M

[https://www.crunchbase.com/funding-
round/7fb2ab81232afc3adf4...](https://www.crunchbase.com/funding-
round/7fb2ab81232afc3adf4..).

They've just deleted all social profiles
[https://twitter.com/plastcinc](https://twitter.com/plastcinc)
[https://www.facebook.com/PlastcInc/](https://www.facebook.com/PlastcInc/)

------
openmosix
My newsfeed on Facebook is full of ads of hardware startups with amazing
concepts of products. When I get into the "know more" is always a "pre-order".
From IOT-retrofit-motorized-shades to triple-your-macbook-screen-via-usb. I've
been burned so many times that when I see "startup", "hardware", "pre-order"
and "as a service" in the same pitch, I make a mental note of "call me back
once you have a real product and it does not depend on your infrastructure".

------
hkdobrev
Does anyone have any information whether they'd refund people who have pre-
ordered?

~~~
hkdobrev
> A chapter 7 bankruptcy case does not involve the filing of a plan of
> repayment as in chapter 13. Instead, the bankruptcy trustee gathers and
> sells the debtor's nonexempt assets and uses the proceeds of such assets to
> pay holders of claims (creditors) in accordance with the provisions of the
> Bankruptcy Code. Part of the debtor's property may be subject to liens and
> mortgages that pledge the property to other creditors. In addition, the
> Bankruptcy Code will allow the debtor to keep certain "exempt" property; but
> a trustee will liquidate the debtor's remaining assets. Accordingly,
> potential debtors should realize that the filing of a petition under chapter
> 7 may result in the loss of property.

[http://www.uscourts.gov/services-
forms/bankruptcy/bankruptcy...](http://www.uscourts.gov/services-
forms/bankruptcy/bankruptcy-basics/chapter-7-bankruptcy-basics)

I wish they have clarified this in the email and the website in plain English.
I'm no lawyer, but this sounds like they won't refund.

~~~
artursapek
Kickstarter style

------
Mz
Three years? And they never shipped a thing?

How is this possible? I don't get it.

~~~
reustle
By taking all of the preoder money they were getting and rolling it into
advertising (to get more preorders)

------
mattes
CEO and founder Ryan Marquis deleted his Twitter?
[https://twitter.com/ry_marquis](https://twitter.com/ry_marquis)

~~~
reustle
I still want a chrome extension that warns me every time a previously bad
acting founders name is listed on a page I'm on, or I'm on the site of one of
their new 'projects'

------
joshyy
To be honest, I have always suspected that there is some kind of fraud going
on with the company. Their Facebook page is an endless call for pre-orders.
And they keep pushing the delivery date out. And further more, how the hell
can you spend every bit of 9 million dollars and still not have a product? I
don't know...

------
serg_chernata
At least Coin delivered my product before getting scooped up. =/

~~~
Chaebixi
I just noticed they shutdown the coin servers at the end of February, and the
app is useless without them.

Now I can't add anymore loyalty cards to my Coin. Damn internet of shit.

~~~
pdelgallego
RMS said "Software As a Service" is not free

~~~
ktta
I'd suggest a very interesting subreddit

[https://www.reddit.com/r/StallmanWasRight/](https://www.reddit.com/r/StallmanWasRight/)

------
joncalhoun
As much as I'd love to see something like this succeed, I can't see it
happening.

CC companies have too many incentives to force you to carry their physical
card, so they will keep on producing things like the chip-and-PIN tech. That
means we will always have one force pushing us to carry their physical card,
and until I NEVER need to pull out that real card I have to carry it with me,
so I might as well just use it.

------
tluyben2
Unfortunately this is bad for everyone in this market; it (all other players)
is a reason we decided not to do preorders but only to take actual orders we
can immediately ship out once the product is done and tested. Hardware is
hard, especially tiny, bendable hardware meant for daily use under many
different, hard to predict circumstances.

Disclaimer: I work on a similar product

------
patryn20
After canceling my pre-order in November I had hoped I was wrong about their
future. However it seems that chasing more and more features (massive scope
creep since the initial product) while being behind the curve on basics such
as chip and pin was just too much for them to overcome.

------
nkkollaw
Shouldn't the amount they raised from backers have included all that was
needed to fulfill preorders?

Taking someone's money and relying/hoping on future investments to be able to
deliver what people already bought is kind of risky...

------
zilchers
Late to the party, but does anyone know how the card was supposed to work? It
always seemed like a tricky technical problem, but may not?

------
choward
I'm no detective, but
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14155992](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14155992)

------
chrisbolt
Appears to be down, mirror here:
[http://archive.is/1vHvk](http://archive.is/1vHvk)

------
wand3r
Their logo is 6 letters in similar or the exact text as stripe with similar
color schemes

------
hvtuananh
Remind me of Coin card. Just a matter of time.

------
cschep
I wonder if this has anything to do with Final
([https://getfinal.com](https://getfinal.com)) shipping?

~~~
faet
Final has been shipping for 6+ months. Theyre also fairly different markets.

~~~
xeromal
Yeah, I've been using Final since October of last year.

------
throwanem
dang, sctb, et al: Please update the title to reflect the correct name of this
(former) company, which is "Plastc" (no 'i'). Thanks!

~~~
DonHopkins
It should have been obvious they were doomed to fail when they couldn't afford
to buy a penultimate vowel for their name.

~~~
throwanem
They sold it for a few million in VC funding.

