
Kava: Fiji’s psychoactive brew - Thevet
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/05/the-great-kava-boom-how-fijis-beloved-psychoactive-brew-is-going-global
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elipsey
I recently tried kava, and found it to be quite relaxing. I found the numbing
effect to be mild, even after having quite a few, and otherwise would compare
the experience to drinking coffee (but obviously going the other direction) in
the sense that it was enjoyable and seemed mostly harmless. It had the added
benefit of being a way to enjoy a night out with a friend in a sort of bar
like atmosphere, but without the negative effects of alcohol. In fact, I think
what was most noticible was that the atmosphere was festive and convivial, but
without all the stupid bullshit that happens with drunk people. I would
recommend trying this to anyone looking for that kind of alternative.

If there was a downside, it was that getting myself stuck with a $70 kava-bar
tab from tieing one on in the Haight kind of made me want to rethink my life
choices at the end of the night. On the other hand, much greater regrets can
be had from going out drinking...

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orasis
Bulk kava is crazy cheap on Amazon.

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ianai
I’m curious what they purport adds so much value to their kava in the OP
comment.

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floatrock
Same reason a beer that's $8 at the bar costs $1-$2 if you buy it at the
supermarket.

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newnewpdro
Right, everything sold in a bar environment needs enough margin to offset the
overhead of dealing with people at their worst behavior.

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ianai
I was hoping it was some brand name I could look up for their pitch.

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9nGQluzmnq3M
Random note: the word "kava" is Tongan, not Fijian. In Fiji, it's called
_yaqona_ , pronounced "yanggona".

I also don't think kava is ever going to take off worldwide until they figure
out a way to deal with the taste and appearance. It's not actively terrible,
but it really does look and taste like a muddy puddle.

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z3ncyberpunk
Agreed, a muddy puddle is perfect. Friends wanted me to try some at a local
kava bar. The buzz I got from a "double dose" drink was basically a decently
mild nicotine buzz except my mouth went numb a bit like after getting a
novacaine shot. Not really for me.

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flukus
Keep in mind the strength varies wildly, even on pacific islands the
difference between bars 10 minutes apart can vary and the tourists ones are
generally much more watered down, or so I've been told. I had the opportunity
to go to a locals bar in Vanuatu and 2 cups was like being severely stoned,
right down to the room spinning and the desire to vomit. I had considerably
more at a tourist trap and could barely feel the effects.

Really flushes out the internals too.

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9nGQluzmnq3M
Fun fact: even in Fiji, Vanuatu kava is sold at a premium. The
cheaper/stronger varieties are known in pidgin as _tudei kava_ (as in, 2 day)
because that's how long the buzz/hangover lasts.

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markdown
> even in Fiji, Vanuatu kava is sold at a premium

Not true. In fact Vanuatu kava is hard to Fiji in Fiji despite the fact that
so much of it is imported. Tudei kava, when imported to Fiji (and the US) is
usually mixed in with Fijian kava to temper the horrible side-effects.

> The cheaper/stronger varieties are known in pidgin as tudei kava (as in, 2
> day) because that's how long the buzz/hangover lasts.

Stronger yes, but not at all in a good way. Think headaches, horrible nausea,
and worse. Hence the export of tudei kava is banned in Vanuatu except for if
the buyer explicitly requests it. Tudei kava should not be sold for
recreational consumption and its use is strongly discouraged.

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vichu
For anyone interested in trying kava recreationally (or really any new
psychoactive drug), I highly recommend you read up on Erowid before partaking
in consumption. Erowid is an amazing repository of knowledge, from scientific
articles to dosage recommendations to anecdotal trip reports.

Link here: [https://erowid.org/plants/kava/](https://erowid.org/plants/kava/)

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markdown
While Erowid is great for obscure drugs, you'll get much better info from
communities of thousands of active kava drinkers like /r/kava and
kavaforums.com

That Erowid page is pretty useless since the vast majority of reports on there
aren't about kava at all but about kavalactones extracted from kava root and
put into capsules and tinctures. That's like a review page claiming to be
about coffee but in fact filled with reports of people taking caffeine powder.
This is a problem because just like caffeine doesn't have a long history of
safe use (and in fact there have been recent fatalities from it) in comparison
to coffee, kavalactone products have been blamed in a number of liver injury
cases while kava has a long history of safe use.

Also, the Erowid page on the liver FUD is almost two decades out of date. The
WHO report in 2016 pretty much cleared traditionally prepared noble kava. See
also: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Kava/wiki/does-kava-cause-liver-
dam...](https://www.reddit.com/r/Kava/wiki/does-kava-cause-liver-damage)

Kava is a beverage made from water and the root of the kava plant. This is so
both in the traditional sense (what the word means in the Pacific Islands) as
well as in legal sense (as it will soon be listed in the Codex Alimentarius).
Pharma and nutraceutical firms trying to peddle kavalactone products while
piggybacking on the long history of safe use of kava are doing the world a
disservice.

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vichu
Thank you for the clarification. I personally have never drank kava or used
any sort of kava derived product, but I have used Erowid to great benefit
concerning a wide range of other substances and thought that the information
there would be up to a similar standard. Still, there is information there
that echoes what you’ve outlined in your comment - so it doesn’t seem like it
was all hooey.

How does that saying go? The road to good answers is paved through
Cunningham’s law? :)

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lynguist
I’ve drinken kava myself and I recommend it over alcohol. It gives an
immediate clarity in the head and an overall very pleasant music-like feeling.
The thoughts in the head get unstuck.

I recommend you to try it as well.

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exception_e
People with Bipolar: Seriously talk with your psychiatrist before trying Kava
- it was great for me at first, but then I noticed some undesirable mood
changes. I wish we knew more about Kava and also drug interactions.

(This comment doesn't really need a thread or arguments about natural
solutions :-P ... just a note/data point to maybe save someone a bit of
trouble)

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markdown
Thanks for the anecdote; it's probably the first one I've read from someone
who's Bipolar. There are a lot of anecdotes from people with OCD (mostly
positive). The latest study found kava to be ineffective in the treatment of
Generalised Anxiety Disorder (GAD), although the authors of the study (and
countless anecdotes online) still recommend it for situational anxiety (say
before public speaking or an interview).

Like you, I wish we knew more about drug interactions. One to keep in mind is
the grapefruit rule. Drugs that are incompatible with grapefruit are
incompatible with kava.

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exception_e
Nice! It sounds like you are keeping tabs on this anecdotally/with studies for
multiple mental disorders. Maybe my comment is sort of useful to some! Also,
I'd like to expand a bit, actually. My "version" of BP is "Type 1 with
Psychotic Features" \- it's a rough one, so doc recommended __total__ sobriety
(for me, that was only quitting marijuana). The reasoning was because of
potential med interactions and a higher chance of going into mania/depression.
My comment above says "[Kava] was great for me at first" because it was like
20% of a marijuana high, very calming, and I thought it was safe/not a "drug".
I actually felt like I was cheating and then noticed instabity pretty quickly
after that.

I've been sober for over a year and a half (strictly for my disorder, not
because of typical reasons e.g.: drug addiction). At this point, I'll take
stability over any tea (or anything) that provides a light high. :-)

For everyone else, I'm hopeful Kava is a helpful medicine.

~~~
markdown
> Maybe my comment is sort of useful to some

It definitely is. And thank you for the extra details. In Fiji (where I live),
kava is a recreational beverage and there is almost no info on medicinal use.
As kava use grows in the west we're slowly learning from anecdotes like yours.

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JacobAldridge
One of my best client experiences was advising a surf resort in Fiji, and of
course we had to go stay there in order to understand the business model.

Part of their community support is organising a welcome ceremony, hosted by
the local village (where they also fund the school) and given to every guest.
Sadly for us, no other guests overlapped with our visit and we missed out. No
doubt watered down for the tourists, but that would have been my kava
opportunity.

I keep offering them a Strategy Review! Next time...

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alecst
For those who are interested in buying, look for "noble Hawaiian kava,"
preferably certified. The quality standards are way higher and you're less
likely to get hit with an unpleasant feeling after drinking it.

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sibeliuss
Thank you, this was helpful

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markdown
Anyone curious about trying kava should check out /r/kava or kavaforums.com
for advice on reputable vendors. This is especially important if you're in the
US where dietary supplements are barely regulated.

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tilt_error
The only effect I ever experienced drinking Kava some 30 years ago was that my
tongue went numb... severely so :)

It tastes — and looks — like water from a puddle on a gravelled country road.

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imesh
It's a subtle high. Once you notice it you will notice it every time you drink
it, and it's very pleasent, but it's subtle. It's about as strong as one beer
and the effects don't get much stronger the more you drink.

Im from Hawaii, my parents used to give it to me when I had a soar throat and
I never noticed the high. Tried it again as an adult and felt the high, since
then I notice it everytime I drink it.

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staticautomatic
I wish the article had said more about what the alleged psychoactive effects
are. The description makes it sound like a pretty run-of-the-mill CNS
depressant.

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elipsey
Yeah. I'd say it was like I took half a Xanax. Relaxing and mildly dis-
inhibiting, but I couldn't get to sloppy. I'd call it pleasantly relaxing, but
not terribly strong. Perhaps out of an abundance of caution, I would hesitate
to drive home after having a lot of it, or if I wasn't a seasoned kava
drinker.

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industriousthou
A bar or a football?

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elipsey
OK, I guess I don't know that much about Xanax(TM). I meant, like 500mcg of
alprazolam.

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rdtwo
Drank enough to upset my tummy but no real buzz beyond young numbness. Tried
it at multiple sources in Fiji always the same effect or lack thereof

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markdown
How much did you drink? Fijians (and Tongans) love their kava weak. It's often
more about the socialising around the kava bowl rather than getting "drunk"
off kava. You'll find Fijians mix weak batches of kava and then drink it for
hours.

ni-Vanuatu on the other hand, make really strong kava and then only drink 2-3
shells of it.

If you drink it in Fiji as a tourist chances are it was even weaker than the
already weak kava the locals drink. You'd have to drink maybe 6 shells before
you'd begin to feel anything.

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oh_sigh
I've tried Kava twice at "The Root Kava Company" in Boulder CO - $12/pop and I
can't say that I felt anything specific. I was hoping for sort of an anti-
coffee that wasn't alcohol.

The taste was really good though, at least based on my assumption that the
drink would taste like medicine. It tasted more like a raspberry lemonade.

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markdown
> It tasted more like a raspberry lemonade.

:O Are you sure you had kava? I've never heard kava descried that way, and I'm
a kava farmer.

Perhaps you felt nothing from it due to the drink having only a tiny amount of
kava in it. Did your mouth go numb at least?

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uoaei
There's also cava, which is either the Spanish version of champagne or the
Greek specialty wine.

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bbody
I lived in Vanuatu for a couple of months working, I used to have kava once a
week. I found it to be a lot better than alcohol at helping me wind down from
work, got used to the taste after a little bit.

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Symbiote
As far as I know, kava is still banned in the UK. It seems strange that a
British newspaper doesn't mention this.

