
Ask HN: Should a website work without JavaScript? - baptou12
http://w3techs.com/technologies/details/cp-javascript/all/all
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DanBC
Many websites would be dramatically improved if they stopped fucking about
with stupid pointless javascript and just delivered content, marked up for
HTML and styled with CSS.

Some websites have applike functionality and so they need javascript. I am not
talking about those. I'm talking about newspaper sites that preload a huge
chunk of JS before displaying any text.

(The way you've asked this question is sub optimal.)

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Doctor_Fegg
Define "a website".

Should Government statutory information be accessible without JavaScript? Yes,
without question.

Should something intrinsically 'app-like' \- for example, a draggable map
explored by panning, zooming and interacting with vector data - work without
JavaScript? Much less compelling.

Ask yourself where your site falls between the two.

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andybak
In an ideal world even websites at the 'app-like' end of the spectrum would
degrade gracefully but I think it's idealistic to expect someone building
something akin to Google Maps to put the extra work in.

So all I think it's fair to expect is that 'content' is always accessible.
That does include complex search interfaces in most cases - that's one
situation where I think it is obligatory to put the extra legwork in as you're
basically still a content site rather than a web app.

~~~
robmcm
It's a lot to expect graceful degradation when we can't even get cross browser
support (looking at you whatsapp).

I think it far more likely to get a super basic alternative, almost a raw data
version. Sadly the main driver for this is SEO rather than accessibility for
disabled users.

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adventured
There is no objectively correct answer for this (yes or no).

It's up to the use case. What do you want to accomplish? What users do you
care about or not?

Should a website use images? Sprites? Font icons? Tables or CSS positioning?
Should a site have a dedicated mobile version? Should your site have an app? A
twitter account? Should your site use flexible layouts? Should your site use
any features unique to one browser? And so on. The only answers are opinions.

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codefisher
Users should be able to access all your content without JavaScript. I think
the old rule of progressive enhancement still applies, JavaScirpt can add
extra things, but everything should remain functional without it. If it does
not work without it, your doing yourself harm I think, remember one very
important user is search engines, and they don't (as far as we know) use
JavaScript.

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donatj
Professionally speaking, that is one of my most important tests of the quality
of a site. When I see an Ajaxed site on a resume, it's the first thing I check
as it is a sign of a true craftsman taking care in their work.

Ajax should ALWAYS degrade gracefully. Sites that use Ajax just to use it with
no real benefit to the end user perhaps for a slight bandwidth savings are a
particular irritation. It's often just a strong degradation of the user
experience to make up for the deficiencies of your back end, or worse yet for
no real reason other than it being the flavor of the decade.

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detaro
If graceful degradation is possible, it should happen. Of course, if you
implement critical features in javascript it is unreasonable to demand a full
fall-back server side, but things like menus, displaying text and images,
normal form input shouldn't break with javascript disabled (or just EXTERNAL
javascript disabled, which opens up another can of fun bugs).

Your landing page should work without javascript. Your blog shouldn't need
javascript to display your content in useable form. I should be able to use
your webshop (including content filters, shopping cart, checkout) without
javascript, but payment widgets from external providers are a reasonable
exception. Online office apps like Google Apps need javascript, but it would
be great if one could at least view documents without it.

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leovander
If you are making a mobile application based around a wrapped in-app
browser(Apache Cordova/PhoneGap and Appcelerator Titanium), I'd say yes.

I know most people wouldn't even think they could disable Javascript on their
phone or even know where to look in the first place, but there is always a
chance that it could be disabled.

The most recent experience I had was when I disabled the Javascript on my
iPhone 4s for a web accessibility course and forgetting to reenable it. Later
I'm looking to find a place to eat with good reviews, and Yelp's mobile view
would not load and gave me a lovely message to enable Javascript. I know it is
not a wrapped in-app browser liked I mentioned before, but the app should at
least give me a bare bones list at the end of the day.

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mschoebel
Some things just won't work without JavaScript. Or would be way, WAY too hard
to implement without JS.

But a website should at least _appear_ without JavaScript. I've seen lots of
websites that look empty or horribly distorted when JavaScript is disabled.
That should not happen.

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minikomi
Like.. instagram photo pages? (seriously, without js they're just a blank
page!)

~~~
owenjones
I'm not sure; I think it's telling that Instagram, arguably one of the most
popular / trafficked and supported (Facebook) websites out there, thinks it's
unnecessary to even show an ERROR page if a browser has JS disabled.

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cabirum
If "a website" is a resource intended to be opened in a modern web browser,
the answer is yes. In this case developers can safely assume the three
integral parts - html, css, and js - are enabled and available for use.

If a website - a blog - just displays some text, a raw/plain version can be
provided along with it, not necessarily on the same web address.

When a website displays/formats/filters some data, an API can complement it.

But sometimes, a website is an app where no alternative representations would
make sense. Then the answer is no.

It's all about needs, requirements, possibilities, and common sense.

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ddebernardy
I'd be curious to know what percentage of sites remain in the 88.2% list after
ignoring these three use cases:

1\. Site analytics

2\. Displaying ads

3\. Fighting spam

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toothbrush
Yes.

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bmn_
Yes.

