
Doing Good in the Addiction Economy - kaj_sotala
http://kajsotala.fi/2013/09/doing-good-in-the-addiction-economy/
======
cousin_it
> _What is wrong with this? If people are voluntarily engaging in these
> activities, is that not a good thing? Well, if people genuinely enjoy those
> activities, then maybe so. And sometimes that is what happens. But often, my
> experience at least is quite different..._

That's an important point which is often lost on proponents of "revealed
preferences". It's explored in more detail in Yvain's essay on the want/like
distinction:
[http://lesswrong.com/lw/1lb/are_wireheads_happy/](http://lesswrong.com/lw/1lb/are_wireheads_happy/).
Here's a quote:

> _A University of Michigan study analyzed the brains of rats eating a
> favorite food. They found separate circuits for "wanting" and "liking", and
> were able to knock out either circuit without affecting the other... When
> they knocked out the "liking" system, the rats would eat exactly as much of
> the food without making any of the satisifed lip-licking expression, and
> areas of the brain thought to be correlated with pleasure wouldn't show up
> in the MRI. Knock out "wanting", and the rats seem to enjoy the food as much
> when they get it but not be especially motivated to seek it out._

~~~
paganel
Right now it's 1.30 AM where I'm living (a studio apartment in a crowded
building) and I can hear my neighbor hitting the concrete wall that stands
between me and him and screaming at his girlfriend "Just leave me alone! I
can't even finish a quest! Leave me alone!". Apparently he's playing WoW.

He's been doing this (screaming in the middle of the night and hitting the
wall) regularly since they've moved next door approximately two months ago,
all of it caused by his "deaths" that happen in an online game. The first time
when I heard him I thought this was just your casual "mad guy who gets upset
when drinking too much", but seems like I was wrong. The only thing which I
can't still understand is how come said girlfriend is still standing by him, I
can hear her from time to time asking him "please be a little quieter".

------
mildtrepidation
I was confounded and disturbed when I started seeing mobile games advertising
"addictive" as a positive trait. Most addictive game ever? Why on Earth would
I want to play that? But somehow it's become a badge of honor for games, with
people not even realizing they're being _told_ that they're being manipulated.

Of course this is not at all limited to games -- the article speaks to many
industries, most of which are more insidious about this -- but it's the one
that comes to mind most readily, because it illustrates an appalling lack of
consumer awareness.

~~~
protomyth
> I was confounded and disturbed when I started seeing mobile games
> advertising "addictive" as a positive trait

I wouldn't worry too much about that. Board games have been advertised that
way for years. It might just show that folks who worked in advertising on
board games have moved or the new folks are reading the old folks copy.

------
DanielBMarkham
Obligatory link to an essay I posted on HN a few years ago and received lots
of commentary from the community. This is a very serious problem. I've yet to
see much headway being made.

[http://www.whattofix.com/blog/archives/2009/02/technology-
is...](http://www.whattofix.com/blog/archives/2009/02/technology-is-h.php)

~~~
Houshalter
That was a very good read. Kind of scary to think about. I waste a lot of time
online, so I'm not immune, but I don't play addictive games anymore. I can get
addicted to them. If I start playing a game I might end up playing it nonstop
for a week. But I don't try new games. It doesn't seem fun. Just like I
wouldn't start using addictive drugs.

The same is true of websites. If I just stop going to those websites I'm
addicted to for a week, it breaks the addiction and I won't go back. I have
like 20 messages on reddit that I never get around to replying to, and bunch
of Facebook posts that feel like more work to read than it's worth. My RSS
feed overfilled and I haven't checked my email in months.

The point is, unlike drugs, games don't stay fun forever. You get bored and
quit. And if you quit you lose the temptation to go back to them.

------
OvidNaso
>the same process also makes it possible to create drugs, games, and services
that are ever more addictive than before.

Not necessarily. There very well may be a limit to the propensity of the brain
toward addiction, unless we delve into deep sci-fi territory of complete
reward structure take over. Opiates have passed their 200th birthday and we
certainly can't conclusively say that we have found anything more addictive
than heroin (150 years old).

~~~
__--__
_There very well may be a limit to the propensity of the brain toward
addiction, unless we delve into deep sci-fi territory of complete reward
structure take over._

What makes you think that doesn't happen? We know the brain is plastic. More
frequently used neural pathways get reinforced, unused ones get destroyed.
After a long period of addiction, the brain is physically altered to require
that addiction. The presence of the addiction becomes the new baseline for
feeling "normal." There's a limit to this for physical addictions, because
there's a point where the heroin will kill you. Psychological addictions don't
have that restriction.

~~~
olefoo
Psychological addictions can be just as deadly as physiological ones. Death
from overwork[1], death from playing video games[2], death from avoidable
STD's all of these could be classed as deaths resulting from psychological
addictions.

1\.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kar%C5%8Dshi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kar%C5%8Dshi)
2\. [http://www.ranker.com/list/8-people-who-died-playing-
video-g...](http://www.ranker.com/list/8-people-who-died-playing-video-
games/autumn-spragg)

------
gojomo
The only defense for superstimulus is the hedonic treadmill. (And vice-versa.)

~~~
cousin_it
Sadly, the hedonic treadmill only protects you from excessive enjoyment, not
from excessive urge to do something. (See my above comment on the want/like
distinction.)

