
Ask HN: What credit card does your US startup use? - wenbin
More context:<p>- very small team (&lt; 5 people)<p>- mostly used for online services (e.g., servers, SaaS, api ...)<p>- rarely travel<p>- in San Francisco
======
caseysoftware
Not card advice but operational advice:

From being at startups where people tend to move fast and often move on, tell
your staff that they can use the services they need _BUT_ you will only
reimburse them for 3 months. After that, it must be on the corp card.

I've seen too many times where AWS, Mailchimp, etc, etc are on someone's
personal card and once they leave, everything blows up after a couple months.
It's even worse if they left under bad terms.

Give them some flexibility but make sure it comes to a single point of
control.

~~~
yeukhon
I would say save the hassles and just stick to the corps credit card. I
experienced the AWS under a personal credit card issue, but AWS was quick to
resolve the issue with us anyway.

Though it is needless to say, also make sure you have a vendor email address
to manage vendors. We have had vendor account signed up using work email but
after the person left the company, we lose the account control and have to
ping account manager. Sometimes, that process can take days to complete.

~~~
caseysoftware
But if you make them stick to the corp card that means everyone has the # and
you lose control and insight. That's dangerous at any stage but even worse
when you're early stage and every dollar feels like $20.

+1 to a vendors@ or similar email account.

~~~
masukomi
so, you're arguing that it is acceptable to have the core services your
company relies on be tied to a person who could quit or be fired at any time?!

~~~
some1else
I'm sure they will put in lots of overtime. Maybe fire them while they're
asleep under the desk, and their card is out on the table.

------
spullara
I have some very important advice for startups that is tangentially related.
Make sure that your AWS account is not on someone's retail account. They can
never, ever be separated. Your order history is not deletable and AWS
resources, data, etc. cannot be transferred between accounts. Additionally,
the root account is required for many activities.

------
planteen
My advice would be to make sure you have more than 1 card. There will be a
fraudulent purchase at some point leading to a card re-issue. You don't want
to be dead in the water for a few days while that happens!

~~~
adrr
Thats why i like Amex, their fraud detections systems quite advanced. Even
when my card had fraud on it and they issued a new card #. All vendors still
worked with the old card number.

~~~
koolba
Not only that. If you have fraud alert, they'll ship you a new card overnight.
From a customer perspective Amex is amazing.

------
jliptzin
Get a 2% cash back card. I think capital one has them. If you're running an
ecommerce business for example with low margins but high spend (on google
adwords or whatever), getting that 2% cash back really can be a huge boost to
your profitability.

~~~
jenamety
this 2%. nerdwallet for help. I have yet to see anyone beat the 2% back other
than bonus signons - but those are 1 time and on a 2-3 year horizon go with
2%.

Fidelity has a 2% one as well that deposits cash into a fidelity investment
account vs CapOne where you have to apply points to other transactions to
utilize the full 2% back (and CapOne redemption only applies to certain
Merchant Category Codes... FYI Timeshare/Rental in Orlando for a week is not
redeemable by CapOne and is not the same MCC as a Hotel)

~~~
pickettd
The CapOne 2% business card is called Spark Cash and doesn't have the
redemption restrictions that you're describing (I think you may be thinking of
their Venture card or another personal travel card). The only two downsides to
the Spark card (in comparison to the Fidelity cashback card or Citi double
cash) are that applying for it likely dings you in all 3 major credit reports
(as opposed to just one like most cards) and also that it carries a $59 annual
fee after the 1st year.

~~~
ruok0101
My startup has a spark card and being able to get the amazon gift cards as the
2% bonus was great, but unfortunately for some reason amazon gift cards are no
longer available as one of the gift card options. Had to start getting home
depot and target cards instead :/.

------
chrsstrm
Just keep in mind when applying that you might have personal joint liability
for your business card's balance. We have a Chase Ink Business Cash card that
I applied for as a representative of our company and had to provide my SSN on
the application. The card was approved no problem but looking at Chase's
offerings enticed me to apply for the Sapphire card for myself. I got denied a
Sapphire card despite a damn near perfect credit score and qualifying income.
When I called in to dispute being denied arguing that my personal card
shouldn't be impacted by a business card, this is how I learned that I was
jointly liable for my business card payments as well. Chase auto-denied me due
to "multiple consecutive applications" since they don't consider business and
personal to be separate if the SSN used is the same.

Point is, make sure you read the fine print before you apply - joint liability
may not be standard on all cards. Our bank issued us their business Visa with
a very generous line and it is only connected to our business account with no
joint personal liability.

~~~
cmdrfred
So if the company goes belly up its possible that you'll end up holding the
bag? That is horrifying coming from someone who has worked for mismanaged
companies.

~~~
ams6110
He's speaking about the person opening the credit card account in the
business's name (generally the founder/owner/CEO etc.)

As an employee using the company card you would not have personal liability.

~~~
uiri
An employee using the company card usually does have some personal liability
for the card. Liability does not arise in the case mentioned above where the
company goes bankrupt. However, if an employee makes unauthorized charges to a
company card, the company can refuse to pay them as they do not fall
underneath the company card policy. Those charges then become the employee's
responsibility.

Be careful with company credit cards, even if you're only an employee!

------
SeoxyS
Possibly the best card for startup business expenses is the Chase Ink. It
gives 5x points on office supplies and telco, and quite a few ISPs count as
utilities. Getting 5x points on your server bills is very nice.

Points can be transferred to airline partners for super cheap international
first and business class tickets (10¢ per point of value, often), or can be
redeem at 1.5¢ per point for any cash flights or hotel rooms on their travel
portal. Worst case, 1¢ per point as cashback.

Amex also has quite a few great business card. The Business Rewards Gold, The
Business Platinum, and the Business Starwood SPG cards are the best.

------
gumby
Don't worry about the card "benefits", worry about your procedures. Interest
rate doesn't matter: you pay off the card every month, right? And time spent
trying to optimize this is time you should be putting into your business.

For procedures: \- everyone should have a _company_ card _in their own name_.
This means you don't wonder who placed that order for 55 gal of lube on
Amazon; it will clearly be John Doe or Jane Smith. Since it's a company card,
you'll get the bill and will be able to manage recurring purchases (e.g AWS)
after the employee leaves. On the other hand if they accidentally order a
bridesmaid's dress on the company card (happened at one of my companies) you
can make sure the employee is on the hook for it. \- no expenses reimbursed --
only company card to be used.

SVB does this very well -- the employees get individual bills a day or two
before the company consolidated bill arrives (all sent to the company -- again
so the employee has a chance to catch that bridesmaid dress before the boss
sees it).

------
strictnein
American Express Plum card used to have one of the best bonuses for quick
repayment. It originally was 2% with no cap, if you paid it within 10 days. Or
you could pay your minimum and defer the payment a month with no penalty. I
think it is 1.5% now, which is still pretty good considering there's no cap.

I got it when I was doing a lot of affiliate marketing (no rebills, I swear),
which is sort of like being a founder, and spending $xx,xxx a month on
traffic. Getting 2% of that back was actually pretty sweet, considering my
margins were 15-20% in general.

~~~
sedachv
Capital One Spark Business Visa currently has 2% unlimited cash back and a $59
annual fee. When I signed up it was 1.5% cash back, no annual fee, and no
minimum cash back rewards redemption amount.

~~~
strictnein
Interesting. The Plum has a $199 fee after the first year. The one advantage
for it would still be the ability to defer interest and payments for a month,
but the Spark card may be a better option now, overall.

~~~
sedachv
American Express SimplyCash Business Platinum has the standard one statement
month-long interest deferral, 3% cash back on telecom bills and 3% cash back
in a category you choose (shipping expenses, advertising, travel, some other
ones I forget), no annual fee, and no minimum redemption amount. If you get
both the SimplyCash card and the Spark card you can use each accordingly to
maximize the cash back percentage, and get all the cash back accrued as
statement credits every month. It is a small improvement to cash flow that
adds up.

~~~
gleb
There is Plus: [https://www.americanexpress.com/us/small-business/credit-
car...](https://www.americanexpress.com/us/small-business/credit-cards/simply-
cash-plus-business-credit-card/44279) 3% is limited to first $50k of expenses
though.

Don't see Platinum. Does Platinum have a limit on 3%?

------
fru2013
If you pay your AWS bill with the Amazon Rewards Visa, the transaction is
categorized under Amazon and you'll get 5% rewards (only redeemable on Amazon
though)

~~~
ASinclair
> only redeemable on Amazon though

The Chase card? You can redeem the points as statement credit.

~~~
fru2013
I was unaware of that- thanks for the info. I should also add that 5% is only
for Prime members. Without a Prime subscription, you will only recieve 3%

------
greenwalls
If you use a VISA check card from your bank you can easily monitor all
expenses through your company bank account. I found this helpful for my
startup, but as you get bigger and spend more money you'll probably want to
look at cards that give you extras (cash back, etc...).

~~~
techsupporter
The big problem with that is that debit cards have much slower fraud
protections than credit cards (depending on issuer, of course).

If fraud hits your debit card, your cash account is empty and things like rent
may be getting returned while you deal with it. With a credit card, that's the
credit card company's money so they move faster.

~~~
ams6110
You probably don't keep all your cash in one account?

------
fredophile
I'm going to assume you're trying to maximize for cash back and ignore other
potential perqs like price protection, extended warranties, etc.

I'd say your two best bets would be either the Chase Ink Preferred or Amex
Business Rewards Gold. Both offer 3 points per dollar spent in some
categories. The Amex card explicitly lists cloud computing, the Chase card
includes internet and online advertising. I'd recommend doing a bit of
research to make sure your spending fits into the bonus categories.

If you're redeeming the points for statement credit you'll get 1 cent per
point from Chase and .6 cents per point from Amex. There are other ways to
redeem points that may be more valuable to you but this should be the minimum
value you get.

Both cards have annual fees so you should definitely do the math to see if
you'll at least break even on the fee. If you won't break even or you don't
use the spending categories that have bonuses you might prefer something
simpler. Citi offers cash back cards for businesses that give 1.5% or 2% cash
back on all purchases. The 2% comes with an annual fee so once again you'd
need to do the math to figure out which one is right for you.

------
Androider
Capital One Spark Business (Visa) has worked great for us.

Very friendly service, good online system (not as great as Amex though), $15K
limit from day one for a new business with zero revenue at the time. Best of
all, 2% cash back on every single purchase (no categories), which adds up to
real money when you put all of your expenses like AWS on it.

------
inputcoffee
Here are some features you might want for any business:

1\. Reporting on who spent how much on what?

2\. Access control and roll over in case someone leaves, joins, quits angrily
and so on

3\. Backup and contingency plans in case your bank decides to revoke their
relationship.

4\. Points back.

I think Amex has the most finely grained reporting and control and this,
alone, is worth more than the others.

------
austenallred
I'm not convinced it's worth our time to figure out which credit card we
should be using. Granted, our expenses are low, but the math just doesn't make
sense.

------
manav
I've seen a few people mention using check or debit cards and that is almost
always a bad idea. You lose the fraud protection and you are giving vendors
and employees direct access to your checking account.

For your particular situation I would probably just open a credit card account
with whoever your startup banks with. Beyond that I would probably explore do
the following (in rough order depending on your company size):

1\. Using Personal Guarantee: If you are an early startup you probably cant
get easily get a business card without a personal guarantee. In this case its
really up to the founding team's credit worthiness and I would recommend
Amex/OPEN, Capital One Spark, and Chase Ink. All of these will probably
require a personal guarantee to start but these particular ones won't go on
your personal credit report (Some other cards may).

2\. Establishing Credit: Create a Dunn and Bradstreet account, update it, and
make sure you have a good web presence. The easiest business credit accounts
to establish are UPS, Fedex, Amazon, Staples/OfficeMax/Depot, Frys, Uline.
Open them and pay your bills on time (and in full). This will all boost your
D&B Paydex score even if you are only making small purchases from each.

3\. Utilize your Bank: In SF Wells Fargo is actually quite good for a small
startup, SVB is good once you have funding, and US Bank/First Republic are
good alternatives. This is your best bet for first major business line of
credit (LOC). A business LOC is almost like a credit card and could even have
better terms for repayment. If and how you should actually use it depends on
your company and your finances, however if you get one without a personal
guarantee they will probably limit your expenses to business expenses.

4\. Get Credit without PGs(personal guarantees): Once you are seasoned for
around 3-9 months you can start looking to getting credit without a personal
guarantee. Beyond your bank I would look at US Bank, Amazon, Amex Business,
Cap One Spark. If by that time you have funding and more substantial bank
deposits approval will be much easier.

------
clemmakesapps
If you have high expenses and want to leverage a good rebate, I would
recommend getting the Alliant Cashback Visa Signature Credit Card.

It offers a 3% cash back off all purchases during your first year and the
annual fee ($59) is waived during the first year. 2.5% cash back after the
first year.

Source: [http://www.doctorofcredit.com/alliant-cashback-visa-
signatur...](http://www.doctorofcredit.com/alliant-cashback-visa-signature-
credit-card-review-3-cash-back-first-year-2-5-59-af-waived-first-year/)

------
kposehn
I've been running my affiliate business for a long time on several cards, but
have so far found amex gold / platinum to be the best if you have any measure
of marketing expenses.

The gold business card gives 3X points on Facebook/google ads, while the
business platinum gives 1.5x points on purchases over $5k (useful for
equipment purchases). You also get 50% points back on preferred airline travel
bought with points directly through amex.com

I do realize that not everyone has credit sufficient to get these two, but if
accessible they are great.

------
petercooper
Definitely make sure you get one where they're willing to scale up the credit
limit. Our cardable expenses are now more than our limit so we have to pay it
off multiple times a month.

------
rdl
I have: SPG Business Amex (most recurring purchases); Amex Platinum (certain
travel purchases). I use my personal Chase Sapphire Reserve and SPG Amex for
some reimbursed expenses as well. I have a Chase IHG MC and an Amazon Prime
(5%!) Visa that I use for IHG and Amazon, respectively (and the IHG for the
rare cases I need a MasterCard).

Aside from the 2-5% return by using these cards, (and warranty, travel, etc.
benefits), I find amex billing statements the easiest to reconcile across
multiple purchasers.

------
throwaway2016a
I know a lot of companies where the executive puts the expenses on their own
card and then files an expense report at the end of each week.

In fact, even as a non-executive I'd have no problem putting SaaS on my points
earning personal card if I trusted that my expenses would be reimbursed in a
timely manner.

I've gotten multiple free flights and hotel rooms this way.

I might get down voted a bit because people could argue that the company
should reap the rewards from any points but I don't personally see an issue
with it.

------
imroot
In the past, I used a USBank based service for small businesses. Low rates,
API to get purchases, and fairly easy to get/qualify for. Assign credit limits
per-employee and per category (so, for example, Maintenance Guy A can't
purchase any food/beverages, but, can buy stuff at Grainger/home improvement
stores, and has a limit of $500 per transaction, but a total credit limit of
$5,000).

------
modoc
Amex Business Platinum. Great benefits make it worth the cost 10x over.

------
Finbarr
Chase Ink Preferred. Has a nice signup bonus and you get 3% back on some great
categories for the first $150k spend.

------
akcreek
Another vote for the Capital One Spark card. We are getting $500/mo + back via
the 2% cash back, which has been a much better value for us than the miles we
were getting previously with an Citi AAdvantage American Airlines card.

I have a reminder setup to request a statement credit at the end of each month
and it hits our P&L as income.

Something else to be aware of is that some business cards will hit your
personal credit score. The Capital One Spark card I have does, but the Citi
AAdvantage card I had previously doesn't.

I pay in full every month so it actually improved my credit score a few points
as it added $30K in available credit with 0% utilization, but if you are going
to carry a balance you could take a hit on your personal credit score -
especially if your available credit utilization is high.

------
hndl
Agree with others are (sort of) saying. If you're a 5 person team and the CEO
please keep the card on your name. Then, create a accountspayable email
address so you're the only member in it. Then, whenever you get a CFO on
board, include him on the account -- this should be possible on the card
provided -- however, the main point is that you're aware of things that go on
with your account. Have some kind of process in place so there's dual approval
on critical operations (txns above a certain amount, voiding transactions
etc).

------
amorphid
Am also in San Francisco. In 2011, exactly one year after my bankruptcy, I got
a Capital One card w/ a $750 credit limit and a $75 annual fee. Three months
later I got a another Capital One card w/ a $2000 limit and no annual fee. I'm
guessing Capital One is a great company to go with, especially when it's "live
off credit cards" time and your credit rating is in the crapper :)

A less snarky answer is to join Credit Karma and see what they recommend. It's
a great service for $0.

------
joshfraser
Amex Gold and Chase Business Preferred are great for anyone spending a lot on
online marketing as you can pick advertising as your category and get 3X
points on all of that spend.

------
chromaton
Chase Ink Business Cash gives 5% back on: \- office supply stores \- cellular
phone, landline, internet, and cable TV services

------
fblp
If you need a high limit but don't have strong credit I'd recommend the Amex
gold charge card. I was getting $3-5k limits on other cards but got a 50k
limit straight away with this card. It had the 3x rewards on certain
categories like online advertising mentioned above, but the balance must be
paid in full monthly.

------
pbreit
Does anyone use the new age business cards for example from Bento[1] or
Dash[2] (I have no affiliation)?

1\. [http://get.bentoforbusiness.com/](http://get.bentoforbusiness.com/)

2\. [https://getdash.io/](https://getdash.io/)

~~~
manav
Neither of these are real credit cards, they are prepaid debit cards. I
suppose I could imagine a few use cases if you deal with a lot of
contractors/temporary employees but at that point I'd rather just deal with
reimbursements.

------
guaka
Not for the US: [http://holvi.com](http://holvi.com) is great for Finnish,
German and Austrian startups. You can get multiple cards, comes with
bookkeeping built in and reimbursement functionality.

------
cmalpeli
Chase Ink Business preferred is awesome - and it gives you 3x points on
Internet Marketing spend (i.e. Adwords/FB):

"on advertising purchases made with social media sites and search engines each
account anniversary year"

------
brentm
If you're spending much on advertising I would give Amex Platinum a look. They
offer 3x points on one category per year and advertising is one of the
options. The points add up fast and come in handy for flights.

~~~
nommm-nommm
You forgot to mention that $550 annual fee.

------
kabuay
Amex platinum but costs $500 a year. Solopreneur used to pay for hosting,
software, travel, etc. Being able to use the points on Amazon is awesome

------
albertut
We have a Chase Ink card, it was fairly easy to get and we have a limit over
$10,000 so we can use it for all of our expenses.

~~~
dguo
Ditto on this one.
[https://creditcards.chase.com/a1/olainkcash/th](https://creditcards.chase.com/a1/olainkcash/th)

We have the no annual fee version (Business Cash rather than Business
Preferred).

~~~
jenamety
interestingly they list "Earn 2% cash back on the first $25,000 spent in
combined purchases each account anniversary year*"

do you only get points once a year? 25k doesnt seem that high for 2% back
limit especially for a business?

------
taf2
Amex because it's automatic net 30 and for subscriptions you won't decline
immediately if the card is stolen

------
elchief
I was a manager at magicJack when it was starting up. We used the owners
personal black AMEX card :)

------
perfmode
When are we going to stop the insanity around credit card points and get to a
system where credit card usage is no-frills and cheaper across the board?

------
tommynicholas
SVB

~~~
kassovic
SVB is the worst! Go Capital One or AMEX

~~~
gumby
Why? I've used them for over 25 years for company accounts. They bank most of
the VCs as well. They understand startups, while all the other banks around
here are used to big businesses and retail.

------
zakshay
Amex

