
Being a Noob - rcardo11
http://paulgraham.com/noob.html
======
munificent
_> Our dislike of feeling like a noob is our brain telling us "Come on, come
on, figure this out."_

Maybe I'm projecting from my own social anxiety, but I believe most of the
negative sensation of feeling like a noob is being _seen_ to not know
something.

People want to come across as valuable to others and one way we do that is by
offerring expertise. If we are seen to be noobs, it implies we may be less
valuable to others because we don't know a thing.

Unfortunately, _being_ a noob is a necessary precondition to actually learning
a thing. It's very hard to learn without putting yourself out there in some
way and trying. So there is this tension between wanting to be comfortable
with looking like an amateur so that you can immerse yourself in the kind of
environments where rapid learning happens, while also wanting to come across
as an expert at other times.

~~~
jsonne
I do have an anxiety disorder so I absolutely get this. A big breakthrough for
me through therapy was working on my self worth and realizing that I have
inherent value. I can't speak for everyone but I was raised to believe that my
worth was really only the sum of my actions in a very utilitarian sort of way
rather than a deontological way. I suspect a lot of other young men in my
generation were instilled with very similar values. If you know that you
existing just as you are is valuable regardless then the social anxiety around
not knowing something or being "perfect" tends to melt away (or it at least
helps). Perfectionism is a lot more insidious than most folks realize. That
said when you get to the place where you can get past that it's quite
liberating.

~~~
burntoutfire
> I can't speak for everyone but I was raised to believe that my worth was
> really only the sum of my actions in a very utilitarian sort of way rather
> than a deontological way. I suspect a lot of other young men in my
> generation were instilled with very similar values.

I feel for you, what a horrible philosophy to be raised under.

~~~
gonational
I think your username adequately describes the state of your generation
(guessing you are about 30, based on your thinking); the smoldering remnants
of a great fire that once was.

The idea that, somehow, your actions do not define your value is so
fundamentally broken that it isn’t found elsewhere in nature. There isn’t a
single creature in nature that gets to be valuable in the eyes of the very
objective and unrelenting judge that is evolution.

We are fortunate that the younger generation, filled with potential, is almost
here to replace the vast void.

~~~
burntoutfire
> he idea that, somehow, your actions do not define your value is so
> fundamentally broken

? I never said that.

------
Kuiper
I'm not sure I relate to Paul Graham's experience of finding being a "noob"
unpleasant -- if anything, I find it's the opposite, because any time you're a
"noob," there's so much low-hanging fruit to pick.

New city? There's a bunch of cool/fun things to do that you haven't tried yet.
New hobby? Hop onto Youtube and there's hundreds of hours of "explainer"
videos made by passionate hobbyists looking to share their favorite parts of
that hobby with you. New to a particular field? Other people have probably
already done the work of curating the 1% most interesting, important, and
fascinating things to learn about. It's easy to feel like you're making
progress when you're starting from zero.

I recently bought a guitar and started playing Rocksmith -- think Guitar Hero,
but with a real guitar hooked up to your computer, with learning tools
designed to help you learn how to play songs of your choosing, along with
lessons covering everything from how to play power chords to the very basics
of how to hold your guitar when sitting vs standing. I'm a total noob when it
comes to playing guitar, but I've enjoyed every part of my time with
Rocksmith, from the very first moment I plugged in my guitar and let the
software step me through the process of tuning it.

I've found it incredibly edifying largely because the experience of picking up
an instrument and learning how to play it has reminded me of what it's like to
learn a completely new skill from scratch -- I think spending a week with
Rocksmith has not only taught me guitar basics, but also given me a refresher
course on how to learn a new skill.

In fact, I wonder if this can lead to its own problem -- someone who gets too
much pleasure from the experience of being a noob and may turn into a
dilettante, moving from hobby to hobby without ever taking the time to spend
years cultivating a deep expertise. Which, I suppose, is fine on a certain
level, but there are definitely times when I've procrastinated and hidden from
the intimidating prospect of achieving mastery in a field where I already have
a lot of experience, and instead spent that time venturing into new fields
where there's still low-hanging fruit for me to pick.

~~~
pigscantfly
To add my two cents, I've studied half a dozen languages over my life and
managed to become fluent in three, give or take. My favorite part of the
process is always the first few months, when new concepts come the quickest
and one sees major progress made every day.

In the end, I think the learning process for almost any skill follows an
S-curve, and that initial takeoff is always the most intoxicating period for
me. That said, I've spoken about this with others in my classes, and most of
them find this early period more daunting and relish later stages, when their
footing has become solid.

------
auggierose
There is the assumption that people necessarily mind feeling like a noob. I
don't really. What I dislike is a situation where I freely admit of being a
noob and then people who know clearly even less about the situation than I do
acting superior. Or people who know more than me now about it, but will know
less than me in a month acting superior. Or, just people acting superior :-)

~~~
chrisseaton
Zen out. Let people act superior if that's how they want to act and don't
worry about who knows more or who thinks they know more.

~~~
k__
This is how we ended up with a bunch of rich but ignorant people calling the
shots.

~~~
chrisseaton
I didn't say do what they say, or let them push you around. Just let them act
how they want to act, and then go with what you know. Why does it matter to me
if someone acts superior about a topic if I have my own confidence in what I
know?

~~~
k__
Because they will persuade people who don't know any better.

~~~
chrisseaton
Just present how you see things and try to persuade them of your view then.
Don’t worry about how good the other person thinks they are.

------
bambax
If you're a constant noob, you're a tourist of knowledge. Actual competence
takes time. In many fields, it takes a lifetime. In some fields, it takes more
than one lifetime -- you can't achieve greatness if your parents weren't
already knowledgeable.

Being a noob is neither pleasant nor unpleasant. We are learning machines and
curiosity is one of our main drives in life.

Appearing as a noob can probably rub some people the wrong way. People who
are, how should we put it? Ego sensitive?

~~~
kharak
What would be an example for professions that required at least two
generations?

~~~
solveit
Fields where you have to start very young. For instance, it's very unlikely
that you'll become world class in gymnastics, chess, or piano unless your
parents were at least knowledgeable enough to get you very good teachers by
the time you were ten. Sometimes, a nation that cares enough can substitute.

------
flyGuyOnTheSly
My daily yoga practice has taught me to embrace challenging new poses (or
situations in life) in a great new way.

A paradigm shift, if you will.

I used to look at challenging poses with dread. "Oh god, that's going to be
uncomfortable..." or perhaps "There is no way I am strong enough to do
that..." and I am always right. It is going to be uncomfortable and I am
usually too weak to perform the asana with grace.

But what really excited me upon learning recently... and what helps me pull
through it every single time now is this:

I am about to be able to move my body in a way that was never before
possible... at least not possible since I was 6 years old or so most likely...

If I can just bear through it...

In a few weeks time I know I'll be able to move my body in ways that I never
even thought was possible... and that's really exciting for a yogi!

Trying new things is exhilarating!

I feel sorry for my former self who dreaded them for far too long.

~~~
stanferder
A noob is simply someone who has found a new world to conquer. The result
should be excitement!

------
duxup
I changed careers and at 40 something I'm a noob again.

It can be frustrating not knowing and I'll go down the path of analysis
paralysis and procrastination sometimes. I'm a bit prone to that as in my
previous career I kinda had things down pretty solidly.

But I try to embrace it. Is this the right code here? No better way to find
out than try things and see what happens....if it doesn't work, well I'm a
noob, that is going to happen. (obviously these are somewhat educated /
calculated risks, not just random)

I like it. There's a freedom in not worrying if you're doing it right all the
time and recognizing that doing it wrong is ok provided you learn.

~~~
lsaferite
How did you manage the drastic income change that comes with a late-life
career change? I've considered it several times in the past, but with a family
to support it's not really that feasible.

~~~
duxup
I received a generous severance package from my previous employer when they
were bought by another company and waited out that event in order to support
my family for a few months while I attended a coding camp (I studied a lot
before and after but wanted some in person instruction).

I managed to save a small stash of money as well on the side over nearly 20
years of work that I had as both an emergency fund and "one day I kinda want
to do something different" fund.

My wife works as well and while she doesn't make much (teacher) it helped of
set some costs).

The turnaround time from end of previous career to new job was about 8 months
and that was probabbly the key. That's not too bad. I would have loved to go
back to college for a more formal education but that was not an option due to
the time commitment / I was a terrible college student when I was younger so i
would have a lot to make up at a traditional college.

As a n00b i was making very little at my first job initially but after proving
myself my salary has risen quite quickly. I'm not where I used to be in terms
of income, but I'm happier for sure.

~~~
gonational
If you don’t mind me asking, what was your job before and what is it now? Were
you in software in both cases, but just drastically different roles? Or
totally different?

------
segmondy
Meh, I think post could have been a tweet. Learning new things will have you
feeling like a noob. It's okay to feel like a noob and totally clueless, it's
sign that you're learning. Learn often, embrace being a noob often.

------
eralps
> the more of a noob you are locally, the less of a noob you are globally.

> if you stay in your home country, you'll feel less of a noob

> And yet you'll know more if you move.

I experienced this in the US when I was scheduling interviews for an
internship with a US company. I had waited for the interviewer for half an
hour and shoot them an email asking for rescheduling after they did not show
up.

Turns out I forgot the timezone difference. In all my (quarter-century)life, I
had never needed to check timezone in the same country. Felt like the biggest
noob. I know more in general now but, even for a simple thing like scheduling
an interview, I became "locally" noob.

~~~
mcguire
That one has caught me out, too, and I've spent most of my life frequently
crossing time zone boundaries (Central/Mountain and lately Central/Eastern).

------
makach
It's a good thing to think of yourself as a noob.

I too think of myself as a noob. I believe it has to do about knowledge and
experience. You know the old adage "The more you know, the more you know you
don't know." To me this is very true.

I was reprimanded the other day, by management because I said in a
presentation "I don't know" when discussing how to solve a particular problem.
When having a discussion there is a few rules that must be followed in order
for you to have a meaningful exchange of opinions that brings you closer to
some sort of consensus. One of these is principle of charity: "interpreting a
speaker's statements in the most rational way possible and, in the case of any
argument, considering its best, strongest possible interpretation." My manager
did the the opposite of this principle and assumed that when I said "I don't
know" that that meant that I was going to find out on my own and disregard his
opinion and directive. What I meant was that "I don't know, let's gather a
group of experts, let them gather information and interpret this in such a way
that he can take a proper decision on what to do next."

I regret that I wasn't this clear when communicating with him to begin with.

To me, in IT nothing is more worse than someone who claim they know
everything, have all the answers and don't want to listen.

Recently on I recently read the quote "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not
ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge." I think this complements the
above quote very well, and is something important that we all need to be aware
of. To be a noob means at least you have the self-insight to understand that
you have much more to learn, and that you are willing to collaborate with your
colleagues to achieve more wisdom.

~~~
zro
> I was reprimanded the other day, by management because I said in a
> presentation "I don't know"

Maybe it's because I'm still in the junior / recent-grad mindset, but my
experience has been the opposite.

The most striking difference for me between academia and industry is that now
it's okay to not know things. In academia you're expected to have the answers
and be able to reproduce them on tests and things; in industry it seems much
more acceptable to admit ignorance so long as you plan on eventually getting
an answer.

~~~
makach
In academia they usually know the answers on beforehand, unless you are doing
a master or a PhD you must learn the basics and show that you understand the
concepts of your subject.

At work you have to use all your tools to continue to learn, and solve
problems that has potentially never been solved before while considering cost-
benefit with your solutions and making sure you do whatever it is you are
doing with some sort of integrity in place.

------
rs23296008n1
I'm a bit suspicious of people who call me a noob when I'm learning something.
Its too often a pejorative as if from on high. As if they were never a
beginner. But its a lie. They were once a beginner. And they themselves have
probably plateaued. To me its as bad as them bragging about their being a
perfectionist. I don't appreciate perfectionism either because they tend to
never finish anything.

If being a noob is shameful then becoming good and then later an expert is
made much more difficult than it should be. Mistakes and failures are also
seen as shameful and must be hidden. If you can't be open about making
mistakes and learning from them then you're more likely surrounded by idiots
or jerks.

Failure is part of learning. So if you aren't failing _at what you 're doing
right now_ in some way, to some degree, then its not challenging enough for
you. That is fine because sometimes the job needs to be done right because
you're doing the performance. But if you aren't pushing hard into a space
where mistakes and failures are actually possible then your goals aren't big
enough. Likely stagnating.

A stagnating expert is someone who is afraid of the next level. They are
afraid of becoming a beginner again. Afraid perhaps to even get into the
practice nets and practice batting or throwing. Afraid to practice scales or
try some hard piece they've never played.

~~~
polishdude20
I can call someone a noob and not mean anything negative about it. The word is
usually used to mean beginner.

~~~
rs23296008n1
Different circles of people have different norms.

------
piinbinary
I think this is roughly equivalent to "you'll learn more outside of your
comfort zone [even though you'll feel like you know less]"

------
blueyes
This is similar to the idea of Beginner's Mind in Zen. Shunryu Suzuki wrote
about it in this book: [https://www.amazon.com/Zen-Mind-Beginners-Informal-
Meditatio...](https://www.amazon.com/Zen-Mind-Beginners-Informal-
Meditation/dp/1590308492)

Which influenced Steve Jobs, among others. It's a great read.

------
GistNoesis
"the more you feel like a noob, the better." I am not convinced.

With experience it should become rarer and rarer to encounter some things that
makes so little sense that you feel like a noob, and you certainly shouldn't
feel aimless.

The more systems you explore, the bigger the toolbox you acquire. And there
are not infinitely many existing tools because they once have been invented.
And often these tools can be categorized by their operating principles which
are even fewer. Because most disciplines overlap, the more you explore the
faster the exploration goes.

Sure, when you encounter something new you will need to gather some info
before you are operational, but when you are enough of a generalist, you will
have picked up enough heuristics to know who, where, and what to look for, and
it shouldn't take long.

Sure, we can dig and make any subject arbitrarily deep so there are infinitely
many new things to explore and be amazed by. Staying humble, curious, honest
and acknowledging that there are plenty of things that you have explored yet
is also necessary.

But if you disperse by being contempt of being a noob you risk becoming lost
in a senseless experiencing of a chaotic mess, and not gather experience by
seeing the order things could be arranged into.

So when you feel like a noob, sort it out.

~~~
andrewzah
> With experience it should become rarer and rarer to encounter some things
> that makes so little sense that you feel like a noob, and you certainly
> shouldn't feel aimless.

Then you're not pushing yourself or trying new things. Noob == newbie, so it
applies even to experts who are learning things in an unfamiliar area.

I felt like a noob when I learned about functional programming. Then I felt
like a noob again when I started learning Haskell.

I read about Coq yesterday and felt like a total and utter noob.

I read about the `nom` lexing crate for Rust recently and felt like a noob
getting up to speed.

I still am a noob when it comes to using every unix utility: I recently
learned about gnu parallel and read about xargs more finely.

I never want to be in a situation where I never feel like a noob, because in
computing alone that's basically impossible unless I'm not challenging myself.

~~~
bonoboTP
I interpreted the post much more broadly, way beyond software tools. There are
tons of things in existence outside of computers, and each of us is a noob in
most things. Just some examples that come to mind:

Playing musical instruments and singing, yoga poses, barbell training with
correct form, Buddhism, how to negotiate in an Arab bazaar, tax returns,
training animals, riding a motorcycle, how to navigate forests, how to
navigate the sea on a sailboat, how to direct and edit a movie, reciting
poems, how to structure a novel, cooking and baking well, brewing beer, how
the electric wiring works in a house, hobby electronics, how to build
furniture, how to shoot guns and how they work, self defense and martial arts,
fixing a car, hunting and fishing, BDSM and fetishes, finance products and the
stock market, law and the court system in various countries, foreign
languages, diet and nutrition, amateur radio, physics, painting, calligraphy,
psychedelic drugs, networking effectively with important people, being a
bartender or other service personnel, backpacking alone, raising children...

Some may say "I may not have much practice in [particular thing], but surely
it's easy, it's just [...]", but I really recommend reading that blog post
called "Reality has a surprising amount of detail", which shows how many
things there are to learn about simple sounding special cases (like building a
staircase). All these things and hundreds more are rabbit holes with more and
more branches of rabbit holes of communities, cultures, various levels of
expertise attainable in each branch and subbranch etc.

~~~
andrewzah
Of course. In this case I specifically applied it to my professional domain,
but this advice applies to every single facet of life. Life is also incredibly
boring if you're not challenging yourself to do new things. Which is why I
force myself to try new hobbies, events, programming languages. I almost
always walk away glad that I pushed myself to expand and grow, even if I end
up not enjoying or pursuing that thing.

------
ArtWomb
I'm pretty good at keeping up with the SOTA in subjects like crypto, AI. But
it's because I make an effort. And they interest me immensely. And it's easy
with the wealth of information online.

Where I find it harder to keep up is that esoteric knowledge of "the culture".
What is current in music and movies and art. Even interacting with young
people a lot. The velocity of relevance seems to have altered significantly.

Another interesting take is returning to childhood passions. I used to be into
sailing and thought if I have some free time I'll take it up as a hobby again.
Maybe book a class in Annapolis MD. Or charter a small yacht for a day trip in
Florida during spring break.

But the world of sailing has just metastasized into a massive industrialized
complex! Lexus has a concept luxury yacht. You can control the helm 100% using
a Garmin Smart Marine Watch. There exist software platforms for archival wind
data.

Don't get me wrong, it's awesome. But there is an activation energy. And I am
sure there are still single person Hobie Cats available. But it does make you
feel as if you need to be all-in or else exist in a perpetual state of
n00b-ishness ;)

~~~
qwertygerty
>>But it does make you feel as if you need to be all-in

Hmm, this is a bigger point than I think you make it out to be. (?)

It's something that's pained me for a long time too. I'll ramble a bit...

I think part of the problem, in my case at least, is that the world programmed
me to think that I need to be all-in.

"All-in" to me means I have to get the Lexus yacht and the Garmin smart marine
watch, and all the _stuff_ that comes with that, if I want to partake in this
activity. If I want to enjoy its pleasures.

"All-in" to me also means that this activity (in this modern form) and its
ecosystem and community has been structured (by that massive industrialized
complex) such that if I don't go all-in, then it wouldn't work. The real
action happens when you go all-in.

From another angle, if I had the luck of realizing that I can do sailing with
a simple Hobie Cat, with a friend, on the local lake. I'd still have to
overcome this very difficult impression left on me by the marketers of the
Lexus + Garmin + Goodies that a simple Hobie Cat wouldn't be good enough to
bring a very broad smile to my face. They would want me to sit with the all-in
image in my head. They would want to suppress the simple option.

\-- which then is where we can look at your other statement: >>>The velocity
of relevance seems to have altered significantly.

You cannot just go all-in today and be set. you need to do it every year,
"new" updates, upgrades, all sold by the same marketers in such a way that the
previous models just seem not usable anymore.

\-- Reading again, I also see >>>it does make you feel you see, thats what
they want!

>>>it does make you feel as if you need to be all-in

so they want to create the idea that being behind, being a noob (the
"perpetual state" as you put it) is a bad thing. Or maybe rather, they know
humans (as PG says were in the old days required to overcome noobness to
survive) so it's built into us. marketers exploit this to get you to buy again
and again.

\------- which brings us to philosophy. The stuff I've come to realize sit
even underneath the above statements.

See, philosophers tells us that happiness already exists inside us. Right now.
Right here. Inside.

If you could be made to believe it is outside, then you could be told 'one of
the things' out there might be the one for you. Which implies, you'd have to
try out a lot of stuff to hopefully find it between the options. Which gives
you the idea that if you get something, and it doesn't work, you just gotta
try something else. But what you don't know, the trick, is that none of it
will fulfill.

Also, problem for a capitalist world is that, if you know happiness is inside,
then you have no reason to seek it outside of you. If you're not seeking it
outside, and you feel it inside, you won't be open to suggestions of products
that might fulfill this suggested feeling of emptiness. Which means they can't
sell you anything, and thus not take your money.

So, ask yourself then, how much of how our society is built, its structures,
how we're educated, deliberately avoids helping you to find the happiness
inside, and deliberately pushes you to seek for it outside of yourself.

\- being a noob i think then is not something we should seek in all cases.
when learning , yes definately.

but ito happiness, being in the moment and enjoying it as it is, is all you
need. no noobness attitude.

\---- ok, ramble done. I may've gone way beyond your comment, but you
triggered something, and I enjoyed it , thanks!

~~~
ArtWomb
No thank you qwertygerty, for the lovely digression ;)

I've always felt that you can't be liberated from your attachments, if you
don't fully realize what it means to be enslaved by them in the first place

I've always thought the subject of Renunciation in Hindu Philosophy would make
the subject of a terrific screenplay

There's a film you may enjoy, one of my favorites actually, The Razor's Edge
(1947), written by Somerset Maugham

Young American, born at the right place and the right time, who instead of
contributing to the booming growth that would place his nation at the
forefront of nations, chooses to chuck it all and "idle" for awhile

Here's the scene he arrives at an Ashram in the Himalayas after a chance
suggestion from a stranger

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDGwAoLhJE4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDGwAoLhJE4)

~~~
qwertygerty
Thank you for this suggestion, this definitely looks like something I'd enjoy.

"...the myst caught in the treetop. I've never seen or felt anything like it!"
" I felt as if I've been released from my body" "sense of knowledge more than
human"

Return to _silence_. Without the distraction of others and the world, ie
isolation. And in there, after the mind-chatter waned, he found _himself_

I've very recently had similar amazing experiences in the wilderness of
mountains where it felt like I was beginning to melt away into it all. Very
peculiar! Something I want to go back to... \--

Just did a quick search for philosophy around this movie, the theme of
existentialism comes up among others.
[http://www.philfilms.utm.edu/1/razors.htm](http://www.philfilms.utm.edu/1/razors.htm)

I'll have to spend some more time here :-D \--

Renunciation. Yes, that's a tough one. "renunciation of material desires and
prejudices, represented by a state of disinterest and detachment from material
life, and has the purpose of spending one's life in peaceful, love-inspired,
simple spiritual life"

In my own struggles with existentialism, I find the deeper I go into
spirituality, the more I naturally experience "disinterest and detachment from
material life". It just happens. What's most interesting to me, is as this
happens, also the world seems to fight back, like it wants to pull me in
again, not just the struggle with worldly desires, but things like these out-
of-the-blue amazing "opportunities" arrive, that when looked at, is just a
very polished way to try and pull me back into the world!

Life is amazing indeed.

------
lordleft
I like this post. There are Socratic echoes here: "I know that I know
nothing", though pg is making a different point. It seems cliche and low
effort but often times deep truths ARE cliched. The older I get, the more okay
I am with embracing my lack of knowledge in a domain. Now I see it more as a
potential first step in future mastery.

~~~
bob33212
As a teenager I frequently saw the way someone did something and assumed that
person was stupid, now as an adult I understand how that person's domain of
expertise may be very different from mine and I'm less likely to judge.

~~~
james-imitative
This a million percent.

------
louisswiss
> I think the answer is that there are two sources of feeling like a noob:
> being stupid, and doing something novel.

I very much doubt that being stupid correlates with feeling like a noob. In
fact, my own experience of 'stupid' people suggests the very opposite.

------
sbilstein
lol literally the opposite of his twitter feed in which he revels in telling
people what to think and do. that's the opposite of noob mentality. pg jumped
the shark.

------
lappet
Huh this essay seems really confusing. I can't figure out what pg is actually
trying to say - it is short but talks about being a noob in roundabout ways.
If this is so popular, perhaps I should get back to blogging again.

------
simonsarris
I get a joyous, almost dreamlike experience out of being a noob, I love to try
things for that feeling of difficulty. There is this rapt appreciation that
comes with it, even if I don't personally get good at the thing.

Ambling about like a dunce myself, trying to gain some knowledge or skill, and
watching professionals do it makes me feel in awe. I am overcome with love for
humans reaching for the divine, like Faust pondering future human goodness and
joy of participation in human life (as he dies).

------
cjfd
I can't say I share the feelings that PG is describing.

I don't really mind being a noob at something I see as useful to learn. The
feeling that I get in that case is a drive to find out what is up with that
thing. In programming it is not always clear, though, that the new thing is
that great or even that it should exist in the first place. This makes me then
feel not to great. But it is more of a feeling of irritation at the thing that
I suspect of not needing to exist.

------
TopHand
If someone has completed a process even only once, they may have some insight
that an old timer has missed. It's always a good idea to listen to a "noob".
You may learn something. Noobs also may have the best ideas about improving a
process. They haven't fallen into the "we've always done it that way" mind set
as of yet.

------
kelnos
I don't relate to this at all. Yes, I find being a 'noob' unpleasant, but for
me it's not about something tugging at me to figure it out, at least not for
intrinsic reasons, but because of some sort of inferiority complex. I don't
like that the people around me know more than I do.

And the idea that "the more of a noob you are locally, the less a noob you are
globally" just feels like faulty logic. Any and all combinations of noob-ness
are possible, and pretty likely, IMO. And regardless, this sort of statement
just seems like advocating for being a jack of all trades, master of none.
There's value in that to some people, but going deep on a subject or place
also has value that shouldn't be minimized.

------
quantumwoke
I think this speaks to that time-old trade-off between expertise and
generality. I can only speak for myself when I say that empirically expertise
seems to pay off in job prospects, exercise, and love. Perhaps my risk
heuristic function needs adjusting to focus on exploration?

~~~
bloopernova
My career, mostly as a sysadmin, has been defined by shallow and wide
knowledge.

One thing I've noticed, as I've progressed into a team lead position is that
the shallow/wide is very difficult for the people who aren't as experienced as
me. So my initial "just do it the way I did it!" was very, very wrong. I'm
changing that attitude in myself to target folks as subject matter experts
(sorry for corporate-speak!)

This is relevant because it's actually difficult to try to learn 20+ years of
wide/shallow stuff in 6 months. Who'd have thunk it? But people still try to
chase that extra knowledge, thinking they have to somehow achieve parity with
those much smarter or further along in their careers. (I don't consider myself
much smarter, I'm a bear of very little brain)

As they progress in their careers and experience, then the wide/shallow can be
introduced.

------
rubyn00bie
Heh. This guy ( _looks around sheepishly_ ) almost nailed it...

For me the feeling of being a n00b is exciting and scary, but one I sort of
constantly run towards because it's the one reliable indicator that I am
growing. Further, the more knowledge I acquire only emphasizes how little I
know sort of making this my steady state in life. I dig it, it's a reason to
get up in the morning.

The more you know, the less you know. In life as we acquire knowledge we leave
the darkness and step into the light, fortunately (IMHO), each time we leave
that darkness we find a new world, with each world new shadows we will have to
emerge from, ad infinitum.

The bounds of which we can know, like our universe is expanding, to not feel
like a n00b, is to have stopped learning.

------
ChrisMarshallNY
I don't mind PG's stuff. I don't care if he's a bazillionaire. I'm not looking
for a dime from anyone, and I don't worship wealth. Lots of billionaires say
stuff to which I'd rather give a pass.

I don't really mind being a n00b. In fact, I seek it out deliberately. It does
get me lots of sneers and micro-aggro; but we never learn anything new, if we
don't try something new. I have a pretty thick skin.

[https://medium.com/chrismarshallny/thats-not-what-ships-
are-...](https://medium.com/chrismarshallny/thats-not-what-ships-are-built-
for-595f4ae2c284)

------
iapsngh
It's the other way round for me. When I was young, I thought old people had
nothing figured out. Now, though I'm not that old but I think young people
need to figure out much more.

Maybe it was because when I was young, I tried to have a go at things in spite
of being a noob at many and being told not to 'experiment'.

Now, when I see my children with the same train of thoughts, I remember those
days and let them have theirs.

I agree with PG > "the more of a noob you are locally, the less of a noob you
are globally." And I kind of feel OK being a noob in a new place. Gives me the
opportunity to explore without inhibitions.

------
jeisc
The final lesson one learns is humility when one is pushing daisies!

The difficulty in life is knowing what are the important things to keep from
what we have learned.

Learning without practicing is futility in such as experience is the mother of
certitude!

------
finnjohnsen2
I've thought a lot about this.

Every X years the tech and methods we know and use; get old and eventually
useless.

This is because we work with and live of something we made up ourselves.
Computers, the internet. It just keeps changing. _We_ keep changing it. Law
and economics are other examples of studying things we make up ourselves.

The opposite, say a botanist or physisist, studies nature and natural laws.
How much does flowers, plants and vegetation change? Science and nature
doesn't change. Only our insight of nature changes.

If you want to become a master, and not reverting to noob over and over -
studying nature is a better bet than tech.

------
harrisreynolds
I think this is a great post. Value isn't a function of length. For me value
of content like this is a function of insight.

While the insight from this article may be obvious to many commenting here and
be of less value, in the broader world this idea is not obvious.

And while I love and respect everyone commenting, including the negative
comments, I am wondering if some may have a higher view their insight on this
topic than is real.

Metrics may help here:

\- How many languages do you speak? \- How many countries have you spent at
least 3 days in? \- How many books do you read per year?

The higher these numbers to more you likely can appreciate this post.

Your humble fellow HN reader,

\--Harris

~~~
xxandroxygen
that's a strange kind of gatekeeping to assume that these metrics are the
measure of a reader's enjoyment of this post.

yes this is a great post, and makes a great point quickly. why do you need to
bag on those who haven't met these arbitrary metrics?

------
persona
Is there an inverse correlation between curiosity and the aversion of feeling
like a noob? Exploring unknown areas/subjects/places may be a bigger driver
than overcoming the ‘noob feeling aversion’

------
scoutt
> why do we dislike it?

I don't dislike it at all. I love feeling like a noob. The last summer I
purchased a 3D printer (one of those you have to assemble yourself) and, not
knowing anything about it, I started to learn, to make tests. I felt like a
child again.

You are noob, then you master a skill, then you think you are getting good at
it. You browse some forum and notice that you really don't know much. Somehow
you started to use this skill at work, and it's not so much fun anymore.

It's time for searching another thing to be a noob again...

------
AlphaWeaver
> The life of hunter-gatherers was complex, but it didn't change as much as
> life does now. They didn't suddenly have to figure out what to do about
> cryptocurrency.

This line gave me a good laugh.

------
SimianLogic2
> The life of hunter-gatherers was complex, but it didn't change as much as
> life does now.

I agree with this sentiment but draw a different conclusion. Stepping outside
of your comfort zone as a hunter gatherer was a lot more dangerous -- new
terrains, new plants that could be poisonous, new animals that could kill you.
Tipping wrong or sticking your chopsticks in your rice bowl is unlikely to
lead to death or dismemberment, but it's possible our nervous system is
trained to send signals that it might.

------
aazaa
> It's not pleasant to feel like a noob.

Some people live to feel like a noob. It's a rush. They seek the feeling out.
When they stop feeling like a noob, the rush goes away and they look for
something else they can be a noob at.

These people have trouble finishing projects. Given enough energy and creative
thought, they can be quite successful. But the the key is self-awareness.

Noobophiles who deny their tendency can strangle a project or company. They
can find it hard to let go when success itself is the novelty.

------
m-p-3
Going from _you don 't know what you don't know_ to _you know that you don 't
know_ is still an improvement, and it gives you a path to learning.

------
taf2
The problem is being a noob doesn’t sell. So yes approaching life as a noob
but if you want people to buy your shit - you best not appear a nub

~~~
alexpetralia
Success sells. PG has achieved success, so he can freely endorse a noob
mentality. But take a loser and add a noob mentality, and you're only
signaling a bigger loser.

This is not to say a noob mentality is counterproductive - quite the contrary
- but that it's not always optimal to flaunt.

------
nickjj
I like the feeling of being a noob. It means I have something new to learn and
discover.

Asking questions, whether it's to Google or another person is a very rewarding
process when you eventually find an answer.

I would have thought most people in the tech industry would think like this
since it requires so much ongoing learning and feeling like a noob every time
a new library / framework comes out. Maybe not?

------
yason
Work and hobby-wise, being noob is pretty much my life so far. On the rare
occasions where I first think I know everything I do begin to worry as things
I tend to work with rarely are that simple, really.

Same with people at work. It's often better to be the dullest pencil in the
box because if you end up being the sharpest one yourself you know there's
likely nobody left to challenge you.

------
m463
Just a thought.

I remember listening to a joe rogan podcast where he mentioned the term
"personal sovereignty". I took it to be the state people reach when they're
the sort of captain of their own boat.

And being a noob is sort of the opposite of this... you're sort of at the
mercy of things.

I think you have to be a noob to get to personal sovereignty, and you have to
ping pong back and forth to maintain it.

------
xorand
There's a great book by Truesdell, named "An Idiot's Fugitive Essays on
Science". According to Truesdell, the initial meaning of the word "idiot" was
one who does not have preconceived ideas.

[https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9781461381877](https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9781461381877)

~~~
yesenadam
Hmm I can't really see that sense here. But thanks, I shall check out that
book, looks interesting!

idiot (n.)

early 14c., "person so mentally deficient as to be incapable of ordinary
reasoning;" also in Middle English "simple man, uneducated person, layman"
(late 14c.), from Old French idiote "uneducated or ignorant person" (12c.),
from Latin idiota "ordinary person, layman; outsider," in Late Latin
"uneducated or ignorant person," from Greek idiotes "layman, person lacking
professional skill" (opposed to writer, soldier, skilled workman), literally
"private person" (as opposed to one taking part in public affairs), used
patronizingly for "ignorant person," from idios "one's own" (see idiom).

In plural, the Greek word could mean "one's own countrymen." In old English
law, one who has been without reasoning or understanding from birth, as
distinguished from a lunatic, who became that way.

[https://www.etymonline.com/word/idiot](https://www.etymonline.com/word/idiot)

~~~
xorand
From
[http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:19...](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0057:entry=i\)diw/ths)

opp. to a professed orator, opp. a professed philosopher

Comes from
[http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:19...](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0057:entry=i\)/dios)

where you can find: opp. public, my personal opinion, unique and different
from others

------
vimota
Maybe the discomfort of feeling like a noob helps temper the gratification of
novelty and curiosity.

Sometimes it feels like a balancing act, I want to learn everything, but at
the same time the valley of noobness forces me to pick the things that seem
particularly interesting. Novelty causes exploration, while the discomfort of
learning produces exploitation of only _some_ things.

------
amelius
I think this misses that the word "noob" (or at least its negative
connotation) is mostly used in comparison to _other_ people, and doesn't apply
at the boundary of human knowledge. Newton wasn't a "noob" because he didn't
know about relativity. He probably didn't feel like a "noob". He was just very
curious.

~~~
chrisseaton
I think noob (short for 'new boy' where I come from) just means that you're
new to an institution, like a school, or today an open source community. It
doesn't imply anything to do with competence.

~~~
Izkata
Probably just multiple people with different understandings of the word. For
example, I picked it up from StarCraft multiplayer in the late 90s/early
2000s, where there were levels:

newb(ie) - New to the game (typically doesn't know what they're doing).

noob - Currently not good at the game, but is trying to get better (usually
lots of overlap with "newb(ie)").

n00b - Insult for someone who isn't good at the game, and is not trying to get
better. Often deludes themselves into thinking they're already good at the
game.

------
yingw787
It’s refreshing to hear this from an authority figure. My personal website
[https://yingw787.com](https://yingw787.com) has the Socratic creed “the only
thing I know is that I know nothing”. I try to live up to that ideal and not
let my pride and ego get in the way. A constant fight, but one worth having.

------
davidw
This has to be something that people have studied.

Novelty and new challenges are good for your brain. I'm positive that has been
researched.

As to why learning new things makes you a bit grumpy, I'd bet that has been
studied too. Probably it's just that feeling of knowing you're not good at it
- and maybe envy of those who are.

------
wglb
I don't find this feeling uncomfortable. I have been driven by an unending
curiosity about things that I don't yet know anything about. My career has had
many turns into unknown territory.

I wonder if a compulsion to be an authority makes the noob feeling
uncomfortable.

------
esch89
While I agree that taking risks and trying new things is important, there's
this saying that rolling stones don't gather moss.

If you keep moving from one thing to the next, you might become a jack of all
trades but a master of none. And real accomplishment takes mastery.

------
chooseaname
> It's not pleasant to feel like a noob.

This needs to be qualified. If I'm a noob at something and I find the right
person to help me understand said something, it can be an amazingly rewarding
experience and not at all unpleasant.

~~~
tartoran
I love beginner’s mindset and usually takes me quite far as I don’t have any
idea what the proper limits are. However, I do find it unpleasant when a more
advanced person explains advanced concepts that are not gradpable yet even
though they make sense. I need to digest it myself first. And ocasionally I
find the advanced person who articulates exactly what I was stuck at but was
unable to ask for help

------
eldavido
This essay feels a little trite.

There's a place for expertise and a place to be a noob. You have to keep
learning.

But I find this constant degradation of work and effort, something I see a lot
in Silicon Valley, pretty tiresome. I feel like the culture is pushing us to
be dilettantes in everything, to be more clever, and to "work smarter", rather
than putting in the hours -- striving for Olympic-level athletic performance,
pushing the state of the art forward in hard science, or bootstrapping an
industry cluster from scratch -- any of these could be 10-20 year
undertakings.

This is pg, in 2012: "If you're not at the leading edge of some rapidly
changing field, you can get to one. For example, anyone reasonably smart can
probably get to an edge of programming (e.g. building mobile apps) in a year."
[http://www.paulgraham.com/startupideas.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/startupideas.html)

So yes, I don't think we should be provincial, but there is value in doing the
same thing every day, and getting really, really good at it. Some things
aren't so easily "disrupted". If you don't put in the time, you can waste your
entire life chasing the new and shiny in 2-year increments, and accomplish
absolutely nothing of value.

------
0xdead
The reasoning of the author is totally flawed. If you feel like a noob
locally, there is no guarantee that you will not feel like a noob globally
too. In other words, it's not always good to feel like a noob.

------
finnjohnsen2
'Imposter syndrome' is also a central component to this topic.

------
dekken_
related:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin)

~~~
mjklin
Zen Mind, Noob Mind

------
reilly3000
Great post. One thing that jumped out at me was the challenge that concurrency
poses to PG and other VCs. When plenty of cash, speculation on platform
adoption, and speculation on new financial markets all collide. Which tech is
the right horse to ride, if any? Are coins part of terms sheets now? Are DAOs
something we should fund?

Being far removed from SV and VC means I don't know what the actual questions
are surfacing right now, but I do know that it is a perfect example of a
situation where a "Beginner's Mind" can serve one well.

------
mark-r
This gets an upvote from me just for introducing me to "Farawavia".

------
Yhippa
I read this twice and couldn't figure out the meaning of it.

------
cathyreisenwitz
I wish PG would link to his sources.

------
flyGuyOnTheSly
>Farawavia

I think Paul just coined a new fictional destination.

(His blog is the only mention of that word indexed in Google atm.)

I'm going to use that.

Thanks, Paul!

------
MattGrommes
I don't know enough about the topic to have a real opinion on it but I dislike
tying everything to how we "evolved". Not everything is based on evolution
unless you say that our culture and society is based on evolution so it's true
by association. It smacks of Deepak Chopra's tying his nonsense to words used
in physics and saying it's all science.

------
shannietron
This sounds like a corollary to the Dunning Kruger Effect!
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect)

------
cushychicken
Man, the hate is thick on the HN comment ground today.

Lots of august people are very afraid of looking or feeling stupid. Ask anyone
in a product development meeting to take a firm stance on the technical
feasibility of a product feature and you'll get a lot of hemming and hawing
about it whether the details are feasible, and very few people willing to put
their neck out and say "Yes, we can do it." Because if you're wrong, you've
spent some of your political capital in a way that fixes in everyone's mind:
"Well, the last time we listened to cushychicken, we fucked up!"

The angle that I think pg is missing is: when can you safely be a noob,
without torpedoing your credibility?

That's a much more difficult and interesting question.

~~~
qntty
> Man, the hate is thick on the HN comment ground today.

Am I the only one who's really annoyed by these kind of vague, middlebrow
dismissals? If you want to say something, just say it. Let other people judge
whether it's a more compelling perspective than other comments.

~~~
cushychicken
I'm very annoyed by what appears, lately, the rush to criticize and tear down
other people's thoughts and posts.

It's one of my least favorite characteristics of the tech community. Many
people will come out of the woodwork to say "You can't".

------
yesenadam
Sigh. Do such low-effort posts from other people as these recent pg ones ever
appear on the HN front page?! Guess I just won't click on them in future. It's
depressing to see –because I _really_ love many of his essays on non-startup
subjects, and learned a lot from them, and probably will again next time I
read them.

edit: oh, now its #1.

~~~
heinrichhartman
I don't mind them at all. If Paul writes anything, I want to know about it. So
please upvote so it gets to my attention.

Also note that Pauls blog is blazingly fast and does not have ADs/Cookie
Conent/Tracking madness. I don't click Medium links anymore b/c all that bloat
+ crap. With blogs like this, I am back to HN in less than 5 seconds if I
don't like the content.

~~~
dangus
Do you want to know about it because he’s a billionaire that might fund your
hot dog recognition app or because he’s said anything particularly revelatory?

Because I for one and sick and tired of wealth worship in this country.

The post is not interesting and shouldn’t be on the front page.

~~~
ekianjo
> because he’s a billionaire

Why is someone being a zillionaire even a variable to judge whether something
was interesting or not?

~~~
kick
That's exactly the point! This post is a generic, pretty universally-
recognized point, written by a billionaire, and is only the length of a
handful of tweets.

The only possible criteria that a post this small and with this little
substance would get upmodded for is the billionaire bit, and possibly that
people are just upmodding 'pg without checking the actual content (I've seen a
few people talk about how they use upmodding as a 'read later' function).

I don't even mind that it was, but the comment makes a decent point.

~~~
bnjms
It is the point. But it isn't the billionaire bit that matters. It's that PG
is a celebrity on HN. He wrote this forum and most of the early posts were his
blog posts. HN used to be all startups and tech all the time. Before
Y-Combinator was successful PG was already a celebrity here who would get auto
voted up. Before that it was /. Then Reddit I guess but I missed the golden
year for Reddit. There are other HN celebrities PG just happens to be the
founder.

This isn't _Billionare_ worship it is celebrity worship. And it's caused
because PG has written enough things insightful enough that people can feel
their minds changing as they read, that they will reflexively upvote.

I hate seeing anti-wealth rhetoric on HN. If the point is wealth doesn't
matter then the criticism ought to be more substantive then 'aye, he's just
popular because he's a billionaire'. HN is one of the only places I know of
where ambition has been celebrated. I get that startups and the startup
culture didn't turn out to be a necessary good thing so there's some cynicism
there. But we can do better than demonizing the money, a result, rather than
causes.

(Anyway, I think I'd like to join lobste.rs)

~~~
yesenadam
>most of the early posts were his blog posts. HN used to be all startups and
tech all the time.

To respond just to this part: I don't think either of these things are true.
With "past" you can look around the front page in 2007-8. I just did - not
very different at all from today. Not many pg essays around - none on most
days on the front page. The titles are a lot longer today, seems the main
difference!

~~~
bnjms
I shouldn’t have been so hyperbolic. Basically PG was a huge part of HN back
then. You’ll see a lot of people writing as if they know him and everything by
him or the likes of Steve Blank was voted to the top.

------
dangus
Billionaire says a bunch of obvious shit, people lap it up as revelatory
information, that’s on my corporate America bingo sheet somewhere.

~~~
dang
Please don't snark or post shallow dismissals to HN. Those are two of the site
guidelines, and commenters here need to follow them:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).

Perhaps you don't owe billionaires any better (btw, is pg one? I had no idea),
but you definitely owe this community better than this—much better—if you're
posting here.

~~~
gist
Snark, agree not needed. But this:

> Perhaps you don't owe billionaires any better (btw, is pg one? I had no
> idea)

He means in a sense 'rich as croesus' is my guess not literally that he has
more than a billion (arbitrary anyway, right?) amount of money. And for that
matter even someone who owns a billion worth of stock is not like they have a
billion of liquid cash but it's referred to (and has always been 'a
billionaire').

That said I think the parent comment expresses some of the sentiment of other
comments (including my own) that what PG says it taken as more important than
the same thing said by a nobody. (And not in particular that HN votes it up or
not but just this general sense in the world that a 'halo' is not merit based
which is what many people want to think success should be based on.)

~~~
dang
The simplest explanation is that HN users upvote PG's essays because they like
them and find them interesting, and because they are interested in what he
writes/thinks because of his history with this community. The idea that it has
something to do with his bank account seems an invention of the rage-based
comments which unfortunately have become a tedious fixture of these threads.

~~~
gist
Well that is true sure.

But he wouldn't be PG (in the context of my point) if he hadn't made money
based on what he has done. I mean I'd never read what he said if he was just a
guy who did Lisp and wrote essays. And if I wanted 'my aunt' to read what he
said a hook wouldn't be 'he went to Harvard and is a programmer and wrote a
book..'. But money? That attracts people and you know makes you popular and
accepted by a much larger group of people.

Just like Wozniak wouldn't be Woz if there was not money attached to what he
has done.

Now to support your point I could also point out many people who are revered
on HN who are not associated with making money for sure. So it is (I agree)
misplaced to tie my comment to having money maybe I should have said 'fame'
was the currency.

Taking it one step further let's say you and I meet on an airplane. I find out
what you do and that you are tied into YC and HN etc and Graham. I know who
Graham is. So sure I am going to be more impressed then if you are doing the
same thing for someone who has not scored it big.

Let's take it one step further for discussion. Let's say my aunt runs into you
on an airplane. She has never heard of YC HN or Paul Graham. So you rattle off
some YC companies she has heard of and even uses. All the sudden you are
viewed in a different light.

PG has a halo plain and simple. That halo can even be extended in a way by
people surrounding him. Part of that halo is as a result of money plain and
simple. Money is viewed as success and envied. Sure he's not a billionaire
(maybe) but certainly is viewed as probably having a large amount of money (I
do as well btw..)

------
zackmorris
There's a word for this: provincial.

Trying to understand certain phenomena in these times (like the election and
continuing support of certain presidents) can be utterly mystifying to
academics, intellectuals and other mental explorers.

But it helps to realize that half the country lives outside of major cities
and their biggest concerns are mostly things like whether gas prices will go
up, and real estate taxes, and if they'll have a job next year. The
environment or corporate malfeasance or discrimination are so far below their
radar that they can be considered second-order effects. They know their way of
life and they want it to stay that way forever and they're certain that they
sure don't want some far off know-it-all to tell them what to do.

~~~
throwawayjava
Pew did a comprehensive study of urban, suburban, and rural communities (link
below). Their empirically-backed findings are pretty divergent from these
common stereotypes.

[https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/05/22/what-unites-
and-d...](https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/05/22/what-unites-and-divides-
urban-suburban-and-rural-communities/)

There's even an entire portion of the report that basically boils down to
"everyone thinks others do not understand their community's problems but is
pretty confident they understand other community's problems".

[https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/05/22/how-people-in-
urb...](https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/05/22/how-people-in-urban-
suburban-and-rural-communities-see-each-other-and-say-others-see-them/)

~~~
zackmorris
Interesting, I wonder if this has been changing due to the arrival of the
telephone, internet, etc. Like maybe other factors contribute to local vs
global thinking more than geography.

I'm honestly at kind of a loss as to why politics is so polarized right now.
I've tried just about everything I can think of, but can't create a self-
consistent system of logic that explains the reasoning behind why people vote
the opposite way that I do. It must be something subjective like religion or
some context that I'm not privvy to.

I'm kind of joking and kind of not when I say that I wish we had an AI trained
to be either liberal or conservative so that we could study it and see where
it diverged. It's like we're way out on separate branches of a large search
tree, so lack the context to understand where the other side is coming from.
It really messes with me, because I should be able to understand a system of
logic even if I don't agree with it. But I can't even get that far. What
gives?!

~~~
jbboehr
> can't create a self-consistent system of logic that explains the reasoning
> behind why people vote the opposite way that I do.

Have you read any SlateStarCodex? He may have some relevant thoughts, see for
example top posts [0] especially #3 and #4.

Also maybe worth researching: cultural evolution and memetics.

[0]: [https://slatestarcodex.com/about/](https://slatestarcodex.com/about/)

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annoyingnoob
I resemble that remark.

~~~
james-imitative
STFU, noob.

~~~
dang
Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News? You've
already done it quite a bit, and we're trying for a different sort of quality
level here. The idea is: if you have a substantive point to make, make it
thoughtfully; if you don't, please don't comment until you do.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

