
Ask HN: Any recommended resources to develop system thinking? - febin
I have read Thinking in Systems by Donella Meadows, anything else?
======
notduncansmith
Rich Hickey has some great talks on YouTube.

If you are a software engineer:

Build a simple database, a simple interpreter, and a simple web application
(backend and frontend). Read about “distributed systems”, “devops”, “Conway’s
Game Of Life”, and “fractals”. Read about these technologies/techniques (in
whatever order is comfortable), how they work, their pros and cons, why they
were created, how they compare to alternatives: “TCP”, “Open Sound Control”,
“Plan9”, “REST”, “Lisp”, “Erlang”, “Smalltalk”, “Forth”, “Datomic”, “event
sourcing”, “reactive programming”, “communicating sequential processes”,
“APL”/“J”/“K”, “Ansible”, “jq”, “graph databases”, “Apache Kafka”

The idea is not to become an expert in any of these, but to digest the wisdom
that lies in their design and surrounding literature. Each was created after
lots of careful thought by brilliant people about how to build sustainable
systems.

~~~
ioddly
Where does one get started building a simple database?

~~~
weavie
I found Martin Kleppmans book - Designing Data-Intensive Applications
([http://martin.kleppmann.com/](http://martin.kleppmann.com/)) to be a great
primer.

~~~
goostavos
An absolutely _fantastic_ book. It was also one of the scariest books I've
read recently. Made me realize just how much I don't know (and don't know that
I don't know!) about the failure modes of distributed systems.

------
paraschopra
To me, systems thinking is all about accepting that _most_ thinking that isn't
physics contains interactions that wouldn't pop naturally in the mind during
analysis.

So the first step to thinking in systems is the acceptance that there are more
interactions out there in the world than what can fit in our mind or what
jumps to us through intuition.

I find sketching diagrams helps. I also try to see feedback loops and
bottlenecks.

My recommendation would be to try breaking down systems. For example, I do
that on my blog:

\- [https://invertedpassion.com/revenue-requires-investment-
prof...](https://invertedpassion.com/revenue-requires-investment-profit-
requires-creativity/)

\- [https://invertedpassion.com/science-of-setting-achieving-
goa...](https://invertedpassion.com/science-of-setting-achieving-goals/)

\- [https://invertedpassion.com/what-food-delivery-companies-
can...](https://invertedpassion.com/what-food-delivery-companies-can-learn-
from-netflix/)

~~~
iovrthoughtthis
Reminds me of Frederic Bastiat's "that which is seen and that which is not
seen".

[http://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.html](http://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.html)

------
pjmorris
Gerald Weinberg has several books on the topic [0, 1]. Dorner [2] has a short,
sharp, thoughtful book on our biases in analyzing complex systems.

[0] 'An Introduction to General Systems Thinking', Gerald Weinberg [1]
'General Principles of Systems Design', Gerald Weinberg [2] 'The Logic Of
Failure: Recognizing And Avoiding Error In Complex Situations', Dietrich
Dorner

~~~
grndn
+100 "The Logic Of Failure" is a great starting point, and _everything_ by
Gerald Weinberg is worth reading.

------
elvinyung
A few cool reads in this area that are varyingly-related to software:

* Architecture of Open Source Applications ([http://aosabook.org/en/index.html](http://aosabook.org/en/index.html)): always a nice reference for brief overviews of how various OSS projects are architected.

* Counterintuitive Behavior of Social Systems ([https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/sloan-school-of-management/15-98...](https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/sloan-school-of-management/15-988-system-dynamics-self-study-fall-1998-spring-1999/readings/behavior.pdf)): primarily an argument by Jay Forrester (the "father" of system dynamics) for using computer models to test social policy changes, but also serves as a primer for _how_ systems are complicated, and how to approach reasoning about complex systems.

* A City Is Not A Tree ([http://en.bp.ntu.edu.tw/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/06-Alexan...](http://en.bp.ntu.edu.tw/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/06-Alexander-A-city-is-not-a-tree.pdf)): ostensibly a paper about the structure of cities, but but really a deeper insight into the limits of using tree-like structures to describe systems.

~~~
dqpb
I had never heard of "Architecture of Open Source Applications". Nice, and
free online!

------
andyjohnson0
_Systemantics: How Systems Work & Especially How They Fail_ by John Gall.
[https://www.amazon.co.uk/Systemantics-Systems-Work-
Especiall...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Systemantics-Systems-Work-Especially-
They/dp/0812906748)

The writing style is kind of unusual, but there is a lot of wisdom to be found
in it.

~~~
Buttons840
That book is half commedy, but does give some interesting things to think
about. I enjoyed reading it, and have been meaning to read it again.

------
jacques_chester
I find the visibly distinct split in recommendations to be fascinating.

Of the books I've read, Sterman's _Business Dynamics: Systems Thinking and
Modeling for a Complex World_ is the best all-round introduction to both the
theory _and practice_ of systems thinking.

There are a _lot_ of books and as a family of related fields, systems have
historically attracted creative and iconoclastic thinkers. That can be fun,
but also frustrating. I think Sterman strikes the right balance.

It can be surprisingly difficult to lay your hands on a copy; Amazon tends to
list 2nd-hand copies at high prices ($200+). I waited several years before
seeing one on sale for $90.

~~~
EliRivers
As an aside, I see that while amazon.com currently lists them quite highly
priced right now, alibris.com can find some much cheaper versions. Second hand
prices on amazon are sometimes surprisingly high, and sometimes, their new
prices too - I routinely check bookdepository, wordery, booksplea.se,
agreatread, thriftbooks, abebooks and alibris - each of them bests the others
and Amazon frequently enough to keep checking them all. My list of sites to
check is UK focused, but I expect there are US equivalents.

Looks like alibris will do a copy of the book in question for a bit under 20
USD as I type, with some searching around.

~~~
Pietertje
Piranhas.co does the same, though with less sites. It also includes shipping
costs.

------
beedeebeedee
If you are interested in systems theory, I would recommend Ross Ashby's
Introduction to Cybernetics. It's a short book and free to download:
[https://archive.org/details/introductiontocy00ashb](https://archive.org/details/introductiontocy00ashb)

Much of the pioneering work in systems theory was done in the 1930-40's by
different (but related) groups of academics in the fields of Systems Theory,
Cybernetics, as well as Operational Research. Bertalanffy and Wienberg are
progenitors of those fields, but I would stick to people like Ashby, who are
much better writers. The work they produced is profound and laid the
foundation for much of our modern academic disciplines and industrial
practices.

There are a lot of fascinating people and fascinating work that came out of
those academic groups during that period. They are too many to list, but I
would give William Grey Walter and his robotic tortoise's as an example:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLULRlmXkKo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLULRlmXkKo)

This might be beyond the scope of what you want, but I would also heartily
recommend Carver Mead's Analog VSLI and Neural Systems:
[https://www.amazon.com/Analog-VLSI-Neural-Systems-
Carver/dp/...](https://www.amazon.com/Analog-VLSI-Neural-Systems-
Carver/dp/0201059924/)

------
wunderlust
The Santa Fe Institute[0] has some courses, tutorials, and publications[1]
mainly, it seems, around complexity science. Complexity science isn't the same
as systems theory/science, but most (all?) systems are complex so systems
thinking usually necessitates some grasp of complexity. It's probably a good
place to start.

They also have short courses on information theory, differential equations,
and such.

[0] [https://www.santafe.edu/](https://www.santafe.edu/) [1]
[https://www.santafe.edu/research/results/books](https://www.santafe.edu/research/results/books)

------
iovrthoughtthis
I, actually have no idea what this really means. Does anyone have a good
explanation?

Systems Thinking redirects to Systems Theory on wikipedia:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_theory)

Is that what we're talking about?

~~~
chadcmulligan
from the book page 2:

So, what is a system? A system is a set of things-people, cells, molecules, or
whatever-interconnected in such a way that they produce their own pattern of
behavior over time. The system may be buffeted,constricted, triggered, or
driven by outside forces. But the system's response to these forces is
characteristic of itself, and that response is seldom simple in the real
world.

Donella H. Meadows. Thinking in Systems: A Primer (Kindle Locations 89-90).
Kindle Edition.

This is one of the most important books I've ever read, if you want the way
you think about the world to change read it. It's a very short read to.

------
rcarraway
The NASA Systems Engineering Handbook is one of my favorites:
[https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/nasa_sy...](https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/nasa_systems_engineering_handbook.pdf)

------
poat
In addition to reading about systems thinking, I would recommend actively
practicing it. I’ve found that looking for and cataloging abstract patterns
has developed my ability to recognize and reason about real-world systems.

For an example of what I mean, take a look at this project:
[https://github.com/perspectivesonatheme/patterns](https://github.com/perspectivesonatheme/patterns)

------
jirir
Perhaps this would interest only EU hackers .. but I think it’s going to be
extremely interesting as a “system design/theory” problem.

There is the GDPR regulation going to kick off in May 2018. Simply put it
regulates how an organization has to handle personal data. And that is a huge
deal.

The task is: Make the organization GDPR compliant.

Does anyone has a suggestion how to approach such a task from the most general
“system design/theory” perspective?

~~~
ianstallings
GDPR interests US hackers too. I'm currently working on a SAAS that helps
companies manage their data privacy, with GDPR being the main driver. I can't
say much about our approach just yet as we're in stealth mode still, but imho
the approach should be centered around _awareness_ of what, where, and how
data is stored. That's the very first step.

------
jamesrcole
I'd read books that contain case studies of systemic phenomena. Like books on
evolution (I'd recommend those by Dawkins and Dennett) or economics (even
something like the Planet Money podcast). Reading about specific cases is good
for honing your intuitions about systems, which is important for being able to
think in systemic terms.

I don't know your background but I also think learning programming is
valuable.

------
NiklasMort
Thinking in Systems: A Primer

by Donella H. Meadows (Author),‎ Diana Wright (

ISBN-10: 1603580557 ISBN-13: 978-1603580557

~~~
spodek
This book is my top recommendation too.

Also:

[https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=donella+meadows...](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=donella+meadows&oq=&gs_l=)

[https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dennis+meadows](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dennis+meadows)

[https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=peter+senge](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=peter+senge)

------
knbknb
"Introduction to Agent-Based Modeling" Course.

[https://www.complexityexplorer.org/courses/76-introduction-t...](https://www.complexityexplorer.org/courses/76-introduction-
to-agent-based-modeling-2017)

It is an introduction to NetLogo (a free simulation software and a Programming
Language), but in hindsight I think the couse and the book teach some useful
concepts.

------
goopthink
Overcomplicated

Building Evolutionary Architecture

The Checklist Manifesto

The Half Life of Data

How Buildings Learn

I recommend looking into anything around processes or process-
building/management, project management, how incentives work, and how the
brain works. The natural world and the corporate world are great examples of
systems in action.

~~~
ckluis
Seconded the Checklist Manifesto.

~~~
sokoloff
Checklist Manifesto is a great (and short/easy) read that I also recommend,
but I don't think it's going to be especially helpful to someone looking for
techniques to _develop_ new systems thinking models.

At most, it's a recounting of someone else's very specific systems work that
has some unexpectedly strong outcomes from surprisingly simple drivers.

------
valeg
Thinking and Deciding by Jonathan Baron: [https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-
Deciding-4th-Jonathan-Baron/...](https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Deciding-4th-
Jonathan-Baron/dp/0521680433)

General System Theory by Ludwig von Bertalanffy:
[https://www.amazon.com/General-System-Theory-Foundations-
App...](https://www.amazon.com/General-System-Theory-Foundations-
Applications/dp/0807600156/ref=pd_sim_14_6?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0807600156&pd_rd_r=3MMXFTXX0JK37R68TKJ5&pd_rd_w=5mGuK&pd_rd_wg=b82Uw&psc=1&refRID=3MMXFTXX0JK37R68TKJ5)

------
bordercases
The box-and-arrows paradigm for systems, built in the 50s and enjoying
popularity briefly in the 80s, is overrated, and has been outmoded by the
likes of complexity theory. This is due to the fact that box-and-arrows
systems like those made by Club of Rome to predict civilizational collapse
carry strong assumptions as to the nature and structure of underlying
variables and as such become very brittle as the size of the system scales.
The norm is not the closed-loop circuit models that initially inspired systems
thinking, but open-loop energetic models where any structural element is more
like a rarified pattern than an ontological atom.

The result is a discipline that has transformed into managing uncertain
outcomes in large heterogeneous models, i.e. complexity theory, rather than
reducing everything to balls-and-sticks. Meadows was famous for devising "12
basic places to intervene in a system", nowadays the focus is on hedging bets
adequately such that interventions don't catastrophically fuck up.

That said, some of the basic tooling is still flexible enough for basic
business problems and some of the old gems are able to explain important
concepts found in other fields without getting bogged down in the math.

[https://www.amazon.com/Early-Retirement-Extreme-
Philosophica...](https://www.amazon.com/Early-Retirement-Extreme-
Philosophical-Independence/dp/145360121X) is my favourite, it's not about
retirement, it's about using systems thinking to devise a robust lifestyle.

[https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-General-Systems-
Thinking...](https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-General-Systems-Thinking-
Anniversary/dp/0932633498/) will make a good complement to Meadows and should
give you a calculus to rigorously think of systems with.

[https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Cybernetics-W-Ross-
Ashby...](https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Cybernetics-W-Ross-
Ashby/dp/1614277656/) for its explanation on entropy, I mean requisite
diversity, which will you give you an approximate mental quantity of how
"powerful" any given system is.

[https://www.amazon.com/Sciences-Artificial-Herbert-
Simon/dp/...](https://www.amazon.com/Sciences-Artificial-Herbert-
Simon/dp/0262691914/) and [https://www.amazon.com/Design-Rules-Vol-Power-
Modularity/dp/...](https://www.amazon.com/Design-Rules-Vol-Power-
Modularity/dp/0262024667/) I haven't read either of these, but Herb Simon is
extremely influential and has great thoughts on the notion of system
hierarchies (nearly-decomposable systems is a great concept for design). The
second book is about the properties of modular systems, which will help grok
the reasoning behind a lot of refactoring techniques.

Good luck.

~~~
pella
"complexity theory" is very important!

\-----

my favorite: New England Complex Systems Institute (NECSI) website!

* About Complex Systems : "Concept Map" [http://www.necsi.edu/guide/concepts/conceptmap.html](http://www.necsi.edu/guide/concepts/conceptmap.html)

* Learn: [http://necsi.edu/learn.html](http://necsi.edu/learn.html)

* "Dynamics of Complex Systems" \- Full PDF: [http://necsi.edu/publications/dcs/index.html](http://necsi.edu/publications/dcs/index.html)

* NECSI Seminar Video Library: [http://www.necsi.edu/events/vidlib/](http://www.necsi.edu/events/vidlib/)

* Research: [http://necsi.edu/research.html](http://necsi.edu/research.html)

~~~
bordercases
As much as I love NECSI and Santa Fe Complexity Institute, the way the science
is taught is a bit of a grab bag. Way too much emphasis on models that aren't
widely applicable to engineering problems, like cellular automata.

Nassim Taleb's collaborations with NESCI are worth their weight, though, and W
Brian Arthur out of SFI produces works that I consider actionable for CTOs to
get a conceptual handle on their craft. UoM's Scott E Paige is also a good
resource on Complex Adaptive Systems in a way that is more unified.

------
neves
The good ole Gerald Weinberg always has wisdom to share:
[https://leanpub.com/generalsystemsthinking](https://leanpub.com/generalsystemsthinking)

------
abhiyerra
Science, Strategy and War covers the OODA loop which has a lot of similarities
with systems thinking which I found useful in terms of orienting business and
attacking problems.

------
aytekin
The Art of Thinking in Systems and The Goal are must read.

[https://www.amazon.com/Art-Thinking-Systems-Critically-
Strat...](https://www.amazon.com/Art-Thinking-Systems-Critically-Strategic-
ebook/dp/B078YYJBXL)

[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002LHRM2O/ref=dp-kindle-
redirect?...](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002LHRM2O/ref=dp-kindle-
redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1)

------
kanishkdudeja
Paras Chopra's blog -
[https://invertedpassion.com/](https://invertedpassion.com/)

~~~
pella
[https://invertedpassion.com/notes-from-skin-in-the-game-
by-n...](https://invertedpassion.com/notes-from-skin-in-the-game-by-nassim-
nicholas-taleb/)

------
gibsonf1
I _highly_ recommend this now free book: [https://www.gilb.com/p/competitive-
engineering](https://www.gilb.com/p/competitive-engineering) A metric-based
approach to systems engineering focused on continuous improvement and adding
value.

------
olfactory
I suggest three interesting exercises:

\- design a QA process for a software product. How important is "blame" vs
team learning? What are the tradeoffs of a blame-oriented approach vs a
systems oriented approach?

\- build something using AWS or App Engine infrastructure that makes you have
to work around the various constraints imposed by the system designers.
Consider how to make a system reliable when building it using "unreliable"
services.

\- consider a Marxist interpretation of the US legal system. I'd argue that it
constitutes a reasonable systems oriented critique, and makes it clear how (at
least for me) pre-existing biases made it at first seem absurd. I suggest this
mainly to highlight how biases can impact systems thinking. The QA process
example is also deeply emotionally charged for many engineers but should not
be.

------
HeyLaughingBoy
I don't have any specific links, but ISTR that INCOSE has a lot of
publications & recommended practices, etc. However, nothing beats working with
an experienced Systems Engineer (as in: someone with a degree in Systems
Engineering who has practiced it for many years) if you have the opportunity.
I learned something every day working with those guys.

[https://www.incose.org/ProductsPublications/Papers-
Presentat...](https://www.incose.org/ProductsPublications/Papers-
Presentations-library)

~~~
donjoe
Their 'handbook' is a great source, older versions can be found online for
free:

[pdf]
[http://disi.unal.edu.co/dacursci/sistemasycomputacion/docs/S...](http://disi.unal.edu.co/dacursci/sistemasycomputacion/docs/SystemsEng/SEHandbookv3_2006.pdf)

------
unixhero
This is a bit of a non answer, but there was an early MOOC delivered on this
topic. I remember this was back in 2010/2011 and the topic was System
Thinking.

The course was delivered by a political scientist, but focused entirely on
systems thinking.

I will look for it and return; But for now I don't have the name of the
course, or the university. I can remember is the year :).

Edit: Found it; [https://www.coursera.org/learn/model-
thinking](https://www.coursera.org/learn/model-thinking)

------
nickpsecurity
A lot of folks liked Just Enough Structured Analysis by Yourdon. Yourdon's
methods date back to the 1970's with a lot of real-world application. That
approach was also used in at least one high-assurance system (Tenix Data
Diode).

[http://zimmer.csufresno.edu/~sasanr/Teaching-
Material/SAD/JE...](http://zimmer.csufresno.edu/~sasanr/Teaching-
Material/SAD/JESA.pdf)

------
donjoe
If you're able to read in German I can highly recommend Haberfellner's Systems
Engineering. So far I couldn't find the book translated.

[https://www.ofv.ch/lernmedien/detail/systems-
engineering/145...](https://www.ofv.ch/lernmedien/detail/systems-
engineering/14546/)

~~~
ensignro2340
That book looks promising. My German's not the greatest, but I tend to have an
easier time with reading it.

~~~
donjoe
In case you wanna dig really deep, check out:

[https://www.incose.org/](https://www.incose.org/)

... and have a look at their handbook. Older copies should be available for
free online:

[https://www.incose.org/ProductsPublications/sehandbook](https://www.incose.org/ProductsPublications/sehandbook)

[pdf]
[http://disi.unal.edu.co/dacursci/sistemasycomputacion/docs/S...](http://disi.unal.edu.co/dacursci/sistemasycomputacion/docs/SystemsEng/SEHandbookv3_2006.pdf)

------
chadcmulligan
Haven't read it myself but:

The Fifth Discipline: The Art & Practice of The Learning Organization

is one I've heard a lot of systems people recommend

------
otakucode
Honestly, play a bunch of videogames and pay attention to the mechanics and
optimal play strategies. They're doing a fantastic job of giving even young
children an extremely deep intuitive understanding of system thinking
concepts. Stay away from twitchy multiplayer competition-based games, though,
those teach nothing.

~~~
jimfk
Some video games, like SimCity 4, can't be played well without being a systems
thinker. Everything connects to everything else in the game. If you change a
factor (such as a residential tax property tax rate, or the number of roads in
a neighborhood) there will be cascading effects on other game factors (such as
city revenues for police, or neighborhood air pollution).

------
jnymck
The book Making Things Work by Yaneer Bar-Yam

------
soroso
Russ Ackoff's "Ackoff's Best: His Classic Writings on Management" di Russell
L. Ackoff.

[http://a.co/6LvRWPO](http://a.co/6LvRWPO)

And also Ackoff's talks on Systems Thinking:

[https://youtu.be/EbLh7rZ3rhU](https://youtu.be/EbLh7rZ3rhU)

~~~
karmakaze
Oh how I remember Ackoff. Required reading for undergrad Systems Design Eng.
What is a system..., Good times

------
sz4kerto
Read 'Domain driven design'. Read about product development and talk to non-
technical product owners, CEOs, and so on. One of the major challenges in
building functional systems is to understand the domain as that's what going
to constrain you in the real life.

------
utanapishtim
The work of John Holland, Melanie Mitchell, Geoffrey West, most anyone at the
Sante Fe Institute.

------
contingencies
I try to maintain proximity to insights I read in this space with a fortune
database tailored to the area:
[http://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup](http://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup)

------
a_bonobo
Along with Meadows' Thinking in Systems I read Mitchell's Complexity: A Guided
Tour, which is just that - a reasonably superficial tour over many examples.
It's a very good starting point since it's got a long bibliography.

------
mch82
What were your key takeaways from "Thinking in Systems"?

What is your goal with systems thinking?

~~~
febin
I got an idea of system thinking, but I found it difficult to understand some
concepts. I simply want to get good at building great systems.

------
iovrthoughtthis
Does this pretty much boil down to "if we poke it here, what will it do?"

------
VvR-Ox
Do object oriented programming. On the way you'll create systems of objects
and with ongoing experience you'll also learn to move the abstraction layer
around.

I think while doing this for some time it's a little easier to think about
other (real world) problems as systems and you may find parallels between
software development and this real world.

------
la_fayette
introduction to cybernetics. it is a great book with exercises and it is free.

[http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/ASHBBOOK.html](http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/ASHBBOOK.html)

------
ismail
The answer below assumes the following:

\- You are talking about the application of general systems theory.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_theory)

\- You would like to learn to apply 'systems thinking' principals and analysis
in many domains or to new problems

\- You would like to learn to model systems

\- It is also important to note in many domains there are specific branches of
systems theory that may be more applicable.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_types_of_systems_theor...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_types_of_systems_theory)

\- You could spend an entire lifetime learning in this field as many have
done.

Types of systems:

Systems can be broken down by multiple dimensions:

\- Complex

\- simple

\- unitary

\- pluralist

\- coercive

Systems thinking approaches:

\- Hard systems thinking

\- Systems dynamics

\- Cybernetics

\- Complexity Theory

\- Soft Systems

\- Emancipatory systems thinking

\- Postmodern systems thinking

Learning More about Systems Thinking:

\- A great website is the systems thinker, that covers quite a bit of topics.
The articles are actually archives of a newsletter called "The systems
thinker" [https://thesystemsthinker.com/](https://thesystemsthinker.com/)

\- To get an overview of various approaches to systems thinking from an
organizational perspective:

Systems Thinking: Creative Holism for Managers by Michael C. Jackson.
[https://www.amazon.com/Systems-Thinking-Creative-Holism-
Mana...](https://www.amazon.com/Systems-Thinking-Creative-Holism-
Managers/dp/0470845228)

\- For general systems theory: An Introduction to General Systems Thinking by
Gerald M. Weinberg [https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-General-Systems-
Thinking...](https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-General-Systems-Thinking-
Anniversary/dp/0932633498)

\- For systems thinking and the learning organization:

The Fifth Discipline: The Art & Practice of The Learning Organization by Peter
Senge [https://www.amazon.com/Fifth-Discipline-Practice-Learning-
Or...](https://www.amazon.com/Fifth-Discipline-Practice-Learning-
Organization/dp/0385517254)

\- There is a great course that covers soft systems methodology, specifically
to solve social problems: [https://www.plusacumen.org/courses/systems-
practice](https://www.plusacumen.org/courses/systems-practice)

\- Habits of a systems thinker: [https://www.watersfoundation.org/systems-
thinking-tools-and-...](https://www.watersfoundation.org/systems-thinking-
tools-and-strategies/habits-of-a-systems-thinker/)

\- Systems thinking resources: [http://donellameadows.org/systems-thinking-
resources/](http://donellameadows.org/systems-thinking-resources/)

* Update added additional resources.

~~~
asn0
+1 for The Fifth Discipline, and I also recommend The Fifth Discipline
Fieldbook.

------
0x4f3759df
Inside the Aquarium: Making of a Top Soviet Spy -Viktor Suvorov

------
fouc
I suspect a strong background in Physics leads to systems thinking.

Especially since a couple of my favourite system thinkers are Jacob Lund
Fisker and Elon Musk. They both have degrees in physics.

~~~
n4r9
I looked up Fisker and it appears he is someone who combined personal
austerity with a decent income in order to retire early. A couple of books, a
blog, and several interviews, but that's literally all they're about. How are
you interpreting "systems thinking"? What's the difference between "systems
thinking" and "analysing and making informed decisions according to one's
goals"?

~~~
fouc
Honestly you'd have to read his book or some of his posts on the forum or blog
to get a sense of his system thinking. I can't immediately point out any good
links though, the book is a good start. It's not so much a personal finance
book but about systems and models, I highly recommend it. At least you'd get
the sense of what it looks like when a physicist writes a "personal finance
book"

------
aik
Read 'The Fifth Discipline'

------
rodolphoarruda
Read Peter Senge's work.

------
kesor
Learn by watching and reading materials released by great system thinkers.

Ludwig von Bertalanffy

[https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_ebooks_1?text=Ludw...](https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_ebooks_1?text=Ludwig+von+Bertalanffy&search-
alias=books&field-author=Ludwig+von+Bertalanffy)

John Seddon

[https://youtu.be/hbNsQFd8DQw](https://youtu.be/hbNsQFd8DQw)

[https://youtu.be/kjKG011gsJ4](https://youtu.be/kjKG011gsJ4)

[https://youtu.be/FbmuqYRi8z4](https://youtu.be/FbmuqYRi8z4)

Theory of Constraints

[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002LHRM2O](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002LHRM2O)
The Goal / Eli Goldratt

[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KYW1L66](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KYW1L66)
Necessary but Not Sufficient / Eli Goldratt

[https://www.amazon.com/dp/0884271137](https://www.amazon.com/dp/0884271137)
It's Not Luck / Eli Goldratt

[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00408ALES](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00408ALES)
Isn't it Obvious? / Eli Goldratt

[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002LHRM2E](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002LHRM2E)
Critical Chain / Eli Goldratt

[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004THZ9VK](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004THZ9VK)
Be Fast or Be Gone / Andreas Scherer

[https://www.amazon.com/dp/1499660901](https://www.amazon.com/dp/1499660901)
Hanging Fire / Jeff Cox

[https://www.amazon.com/dp/1439158932](https://www.amazon.com/dp/1439158932)
Velocity / Dee Jacob

[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XKX1FEO](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XKX1FEO)
Epiphanized / Bob Sproull & Bruce Nelson

[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0185JFYEO](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0185JFYEO)
Focus and Leverage / Bob Sproull & Bruce Nelson

A full list of books on ToC here
[http://www.tocico.org/?page=toc_books](http://www.tocico.org/?page=toc_books)

Russell L. Ackoff

[https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1?search-
alia...](https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1?search-
alias=books&field-author=Russell+L.+Ackoff)

Gerald M. Weinberg

[https://www.amazon.com/Gerald-M.-Weinberg/e/B00459FFAC/](https://www.amazon.com/Gerald-M.-Weinberg/e/B00459FFAC/)

Philip B. Crosby

[https://www.amazon.com/Philip-B.-Crosby/e/B001HD360A](https://www.amazon.com/Philip-B.-Crosby/e/B001HD360A)

Peter M. Senge

[https://www.amazon.com/Peter-M.-Senge/e/B000AQ8R86/](https://www.amazon.com/Peter-M.-Senge/e/B000AQ8R86/)

And many more, most of which are mentioned by the above in their work.

------
jeffcmohr
There's actually a lot of great material available, here are a few of my
favorites:

 _Articles:_

\- Introduction to Systems Thinking
([https://thesystemsthinker.com/introduction-to-systems-
thinki...](https://thesystemsthinker.com/introduction-to-systems-thinking/))

\- Tools of a Systems Thinker ([https://medium.com/disruptive-design/tools-
for-systems-think...](https://medium.com/disruptive-design/tools-for-systems-
thinkers-the-6-fundamental-concepts-of-systems-thinking-379cdac3dc6a))

\- The Mythical Leverage Point ([https://blog.kumu.io/the-mythical-leverage-
point-d582ce4b8b4...](https://blog.kumu.io/the-mythical-leverage-
point-d582ce4b8b49))

 _Videos:_

\- Peter Senge Introduction to Systems Thinking
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXdzKBWDraM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXdzKBWDraM))

\- I Used To Be A Systems Thinker
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ymt_TbNNwE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ymt_TbNNwE))

\- The (Failed) Promised of Systems Thinking
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=614&v=aelqgvFXGi...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=614&v=aelqgvFXGiQ))

\- Systems Practice Mindsets
([https://vimeo.com/212281432](https://vimeo.com/212281432))

 _Courses:_

\- +Acumen Systems Practice Course
([https://www.plusacumen.org/courses/systems-
practice](https://www.plusacumen.org/courses/systems-practice))

 _Books:_

\- Thinking In Systems: A Primer by Donella Meadows
([https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Systems-Donella-H-
Meadows/dp...](https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Systems-Donella-H-
Meadows/dp/1603580557/))

\- Fifth Discipline Fieldbook ([https://www.amazon.com/Fifth-Discipline-
Fieldbook-Strategies...](https://www.amazon.com/Fifth-Discipline-Fieldbook-
Strategies-Organization/dp/0385472560))

\- Systems Thinking for Social Change ([https://www.amazon.com/Systems-
Thinking-Social-Change-Conseq...](https://www.amazon.com/Systems-Thinking-
Social-Change-Consequences/dp/160358580X))

 _Articles on Leading Systems Change:_

\- Dawn of Systems Leadership
([https://ssir.org/articles/entry/the_dawn_of_system_leadershi...](https://ssir.org/articles/entry/the_dawn_of_system_leadership))

\- Acting and Thinking Systemically ([https://thesystemsthinker.com/acting-
and-thinking-systemical...](https://thesystemsthinker.com/acting-and-thinking-
systemically/))

\- Transforming the Systems Movement
([https://thesystemsthinker.com/transforming-the-systems-
movem...](https://thesystemsthinker.com/transforming-the-systems-movement/))

 _Relevant Tools and Websites:_

\- Kumu ([https://kumu.io](https://kumu.io)) - Web-based tool for building
interactive system maps.

\- The Systems Thinker
([https://thesystemsthinker.com/](https://thesystemsthinker.com/)) - Complete
library of all "The Systems Thinker" publications over the past 30 years

(Disclosure: I'm a cofounder of Kumu)

------
gaius
Step 1: get out of the habit of thinking “systems” means “computers”. People
and processes ( _not_ Unix processes!) are the major components of systems in
this context.

