
App will self destruct in 5 months:How Counterpath have screwed over Mac users - kiyanwang
https://hackernoon.com/this-app-will-self-destruct-in-5-months-how-counterpath-have-screwed-over-mac-users-in-the-a628b64b779e
======
mapgrep
Just to recap, the allegation appears to be that Counterpath "screwed" Mac
users by not upgrading old versions of their software to work with a brand new
Apple operating system.

They _do_ offer a new version of their app that works with the new operating
system, and they do offer upgrade pricing. And old versions continue to work
with operating systems that existed when those versions were developed.

Sorry, but complaining bitterly online about this just reeks of entitlement.
It costs time and therefore money to support a new OS version. (Besides which,
the new Bria apparently has other improvements.)

I looked, just because this person seemed so outraged, and the cost of the
upgrade is $35 [1]. It appears Bria 4 launched 3.5 years ago [2]; if Bria 5
lasts as long you're talking about less than $1 a month. That seems eminently
reasonable!

(Maybe this is a generational thing? When I started using computers, it was
not unusual to spend $100 on a software upgrade.)

[1]
[https://secure.counterpath.com/Store/CounterPath/ProductInfo...](https://secure.counterpath.com/Store/CounterPath/ProductInfo.aspx?ProductId=334)

[2] [http://www.counterpath.com/counterpath-launches-
bria-4-softp...](http://www.counterpath.com/counterpath-launches-
bria-4-softphone-client-with-advanced-uc-features-for-enterprises/)

~~~
snuxoll
The problem is more Bria 4 was still being sold until recently. If I bought
software 4 years ago, a new version was released >1 year ago and it's the only
one that will be updated for MY_OS+1 then I'll suck it up and buy the upgrade.

If I bought software 4 years ago, was still being sold until 7 months ago when
the new version was released, and it ISN'T being updated for MY_OS+1 then I
will bitch and complain - you were still selling the product, and even if you
decide _I_ am not eligible for an update based on when I purchased it's still
screwing over customers that bought your product recently when they still
should assume support is available.

~~~
pwinnski
Are you drawing a strong distinction between a new version released more than
a year ago, and a new version released seven months ago? That seems to be the
key difference in the two scenarios you describe.

If seven months is too short, but one year is fine, when exactly between those
two is "just right," and why?

~~~
snuxoll
I personally consider 1 year to be the minimum amount of support I should get
out of a product I purchase before I either A) have to purchase a new version
or B) have to renew a S&M agreement. If you aren't even going to guarantee a
product I purchase will be supported for AT LEAST a year why do you deserve my
money?

~~~
pwinnski
I believe the v4 product is still supported. Nobody is forced to buy v5, v4
continues to operate as promised and as sold.

The OP wants to run v4 on a new operating system that wasn't available when
they bought v4. They're upset _that_ isn't supported.

------
awjr
I really don't see this as screwing over Mac users. The guy has a v4 (released
Apr 2014). The new v5 (released Jun 2017) has been around for some months.
This really is not 'screwing' over Mac users. You've made a choice to upgrade
to High Sierra which breaks numerous applications. You are using a 3 year old
piece of software (although 4.7 came out Dec 2016).

Also to suggest that High Sierra is a simple maintenance update also dismisses
the large number of apps that no longer work with Mac OS. This is a big big
change and you need to decide if you should consider updating given your
reliance on Bria 4.

I really do think the OP is blaming the wrong people here. Apple has a lot to
answer for.

~~~
Spivak
It doesn't matter when the software was released. If the generally accepted
lifetime of this software product was say 3 years then every customer is (dare
I say) entitled to software that continues to function for at least 3 years
after they bought it.

If the company decided that developing the old version isn't worth it then
giving them a free upgrade path seems acceptable but selling software that is
obsolete a few months after someone buys it reflects poorly on our whole
industry.

~~~
pwinnski
Obsolete? v4 still works on the operating system that was current when it was
first released, as well as the next three operating systems. It works on the
operating system that was Apple's latest and greatest one week ago, the
operating system that's still installed on the majority of Mac, and will still
be supported by Apple for years to come.[0]

My company insists that I shouldn't update to High Sierra because doing so
breaks several well-known apps, including Microsoft Office (albeit v2011, I
think?). So I haven't updated, and... everything is fine.

A demand for a free upgrade path suggests to me that all software ought to be
sold as lifetime licenses with unlimited upgrades. I think that extreme would
undermine our whole industry far more than a company insisting that only their
latest product is supported on the latest operating system.

[0]Here's Apple release updates for Sierra, El Capitan, and Yosemite very
recently: [https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT201222](https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222)

------
raarts
I was bitten by Counterpath too. Another company with similar practices:
Parallels. Forcing me to upgrade continuity, without offering valuable
features. Has been going on for years now.

~~~
Crontab
Did Parallels advertise that the product would work on the next version of
macOS? If not, you got wait you paid for.

~~~
msh
You can just as well turn it around: did they inform customers when they would
stop supporting their application?

~~~
achamayou
When the next version of macOS comes out and whether it will bring significant
breaking changes is not within their control though.

~~~
msh
Well they know a new one comes out every year so they would have to be
willfully ignorant to not know that and that it have a chance of breaking
behavior.

If they want to charge for new versions it would only be fair if they at sales
time gave a time range for how long they were going to support current
versions.

~~~
achamayou
Some releases are much more substantial than others though. Apple may even
deprecate functionality they depend on without a suitable replacement. It
doesn’t seem unreasonable that the customer is given the choice to pay for the
upgrade or not, rather than build in the insurance cost all the time.

~~~
msh
I think the programmer is much better equipped to make a informed choice about
this than the customer.

------
oh_sigh
Why aren't people upset with Apple for breaking a new app with an OS update?
Unless Bria is using, say, private API calls, why is the burden on them to
update their app every time Apple releases an OS update, and not on Apple to
ensure backwards compatibility, _especially_ when there is very little
difference to the end user between the two versions of the OS?

You can still run Windows XP programs in the latest incarnation of Windows, 15
years later.

------
jordan314
Yeah parallels does this too. I feel mixed about it. Native Instruments and
MOTU tend to make their software compatible for many years after you purchase
them, which I appreciate. But it does take development time to make them
compatible with new OS versions. Paying for a $40 upgrade every year seems
excessive, but I'd prefer it to a monthly subscription model like Adobe and
Microsoft have done.

~~~
drivingmenuts
Propellerheads is abandoning Reason 8 users. Apparently, whatever they did in
version 8 is heavily tied to the Apple file system, and the forced upgrade in
High Sierra will break their files.

So, I get a choice - keep Reason or upgrade to HS. I kinda feel screwed over
by all parties.

------
Angostura
Omnigroup have done something similar with Omnigraffle - you want it to work
on iOS 11? You have to buy the next version of Omnigraffle.

I _would_ upgrade if the new version had a feature that I requested about 3
years ago (a feature of the the desktop version) - but it doesn't so, I won't.

~~~
KSS42
Omnigraffle 2 should still open in iOS11:

[https://support.omnigroup.com/ios-11/](https://support.omnigroup.com/ios-11/)

------
nkkollaw
What is this, but the author ranting about a totally understandable move from
this company?

Don't upgrade your OS, or upgrade the software.

The title is misleading: the app doesn't self-destruct, and Counterpath have
NOT screwed over Mac users.

------
nicky0
> And by their decision here, there are a lot of disgruntled Bria users who
> will not be contributing to their sales, revenue or profit again.

Good riddance to bad customers.

------
amsheehan
TL;DR: Can someone recommend a decent softphone app that runs on High Sierra?

~~~
moreentropy
Don't know about High Sierra issues but Linphone
([http://www.linphone.org/](http://www.linphone.org/)) usually works very
well. Jitsi Desktop ([https://desktop.jitsi.org/](https://desktop.jitsi.org/))
is a decent SIP softphone too but it's really ugly. Both are cross platform
and open source, don't know about commercial software.

I wouldn't recommend native SIP softphones anymore, it's a pain to configure
and run securely. The best cross platform media stack is the WebRTC
functionality in modern browsers, and it usually just works perfectly with a
VoIP provider or PBX that has a WebRTC frontend.

------
mockindignant
I was about to give them money too, so glad I saw this.

~~~
awjr
Bria 4 was released in 2014. Bria 5 has been around since Jun 2017. I'd
definitely give the company a break here.

~~~
epicide
I think the larger issue is that some people bought v4 just in time to not be
able to use it.

When v4 didn't work with the betas of HS, I would expect them to warn new
buyers that they won't be fixing v4. I would also expect them to have a grace
period where recent buyers of v4 get a free upgrade to 5.

I don't know the details of whether or not they did any of the above. Just
pointing out a (more) fair approach.

~~~
oh_sigh
Wouldn't it be more reasonable to be upset at Apple for breaking a recent app
when they update their OS?

~~~
epicide
Which recent app would that be? My understanding is that v4 was originally
released in 2014.

Either way: no. Your product supports a platform, you update it to be
compatible. If you don't want to support the new version, that's your choice.

~~~
giancarlof
CounterPath stopped selling Bria 4 in June this year, since then its been Bria
5 which IS supported on High Sierra. They also have an upgrade program for
Bria 4 depending on when you purchased, with free upgrades if you purchased
within 60 days of the Bria 5 launch, and 30% off for anything prior.

[https://support.counterpath.com/knowledge-
base/article/%E2%8...](https://support.counterpath.com/knowledge-
base/article/%E2%80%8Bbria-5-retail-store-upgrade-program)

I did my homework, yes I missed out on the free upgrade, but 30% discount
ain't bad and with the frequency that they upgrade their softphone versions I
think its way more fair than Parallels or other software where you pay $50
every year with very few updates in between.

~~~
epicide
Yep, so unless somebody really thinks it should be greater than 60 days, I
think this is a pretty fair setup.

