

Ask HN: Is this really what America is like? - ytadesse

Question:<p>I'm black and I live in Canada and I am hard at work at pivoting my business to position it for success. One option I've always considered for various reasons is to move the business to the US. At the same time, I've become increasingly concerned about the level of bigotry, division, and outright hate being spewed publicly by what seems like an increasing portion of the population. At first, I attributed this to TV sensationalism but the more I scour the internet, the more I come upon hateful videos, articles and comments from <i>non-anonymous</i> users.<p>This all culminated today when I read an article a friend shared about an NJ robber who was choked to death after he tried to rob and subsequently headlock one of his victims. My question is not about the appropriateness or legality of the action on either side. My question stems from the downright insensitive, hateful, divisive, racist views expressed in the comments section of the post on a seemingly neutral website like NY's Channel 4 NBC News: http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Smackdown-NJ-Robber-Killed-by-Former-HS-Wrestler-138711694.html<p>Is this really what America has become? Has the United States become a place where a shockingly large number of individuals feel comfortable with placing their name and image beside the same type of hateful rhetoric that would have been spewed back in the days of segregation?<p>Why am I asking this on HN?:<p>I am posing this question on HN because I generally feel that people on HN are rather open and deliberate with their responses. Scoble (after what he felt were numerous personal attacks) chastised this community about this a few days ago but there is definitely a benefit in this - most of the time. As such, I feel the HN community is more than capable of providing me with a response to this regardless of whether or not it's a tech question.
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tluyben2
I think it is a logical result of more and more people coming online and more
people having access to more efficient ways (smartphones & always on 3g+...)
of posting these comments/blogposts you are confronted with.

Did you ever go outside and talk to random people on the street, asking them
for their views on several topics? Personal worlds are shielded by our social
circles and our neighborhoods (which, if you read HN, is probably not the
slums) and yet, if you really talk to random people, you'll find that a lot of
these people say scary things. Interesting things as well, but also scary
things. I stepped out of a hotel a few months ago, bumped into a man on the
street; we started talking. He was French, a private jet pilot, sounded quite
well educated. He was going to the drugstore to get cough medicine and I had
to go in the same direction. When we were about halfway, an Middle eastern man
passed us; when he was out of ears reach, the French guy said, while nodding
to the man, 'we should bomb all those f _ckers, they don't deserve to live'.
People who say this kind of crap to total strangers have no qualms posting it
online either; these people were not online before in the numbers they are
now.

How would they know that if you are logged in with Facebook or Gmail that your
name/profile link automatically appears next to the post? People know very
little about computers (including smartphones) and integration + apps make it
very easy to blend in such a way that it would be _hard* for people to
actually not make their name appear.

~~~
ytadesse
In regards to the "random people" scenario, I have found that people who
harbour such feelings will almost never make them public in a public forum
even if they feel comfortable telling close friends or acquaintances. I have
found that this has somewhat changed over the past few years where more and
more people are somewhat saying "meh" and openly voicing any _anything_
-phobic thoughts.

I certainly think you're right about the fact that this can partly be
attributed to the fact that more and more people have more efficient ways of
posting these sorts of comments/articles but there also seems like there's
something more to it. There seems to be some fundamental social change in the
US that has emboldened people to feel comfortable to spew rhetoric publicly.
It's almost like a legalized form of hate under the guise of free speech laws
in ways that have never happened before.

~~~
kls
I think there is also a bit of backlash to government programs that tried to
mandate equality and fairness, but many served to just be bureaucratic money
sinks. Unfortunately in some peoples minds, the inefficiencies of these
systems, and the outright deception by some politicians in support of these
programs to further their own aims, get blamed on the recipients of these
systems. It is not fair, but I think it is a natural product of people that
don't analyze the situation fully.

Lets take immigration for example, there are politicians in the system that
are in total support for the current situation, because it creates a market
for less than minimum wage workers for companies, some of which contribute to
and lobby political offices. As such, it creates a financial system that
encourages bureaucracy that is intended to look like something is being done
about it, when in fact the intent is to maintain the current status as long as
possible. Unfortunately in this situation, people just looking to make a life
for themselves and doing what anyone else would do in their situation, are
left to bare the brunt of the outrage, a situation said politicians are more
than please with. There is a lot of scapegoating going on in the US right now,
which I fear could be leading to a dangerous situation.

------
coryl
Don't take internet comments too seriously. People say stupid shit all the
time, anonymous or not.

~~~
kls
I will play the part of the alarmist and also be the first to invoke Goodwin's
law by stating that unchecked rhetoric was the first psych-ops that the Nazi's
used. Group acceptance of dehumanizing a different group is the first step
down a horrible path. It should be checked at every advance. The seed in
America seems to have happened with Muslims, as it was acceptable in good
company to view them all as fundamentalist psychopaths, the government and
media where all to willing to reinforce such group think as it strengthen
their case for war, now that the seed has set it has grown to bear fruit.
Vilifying or dehumanizing a group of people always leads down a path of
darkness. I would not hastily blow it off as being stupid and crap said on the
internet, it is a dangerous mindset, that is easily infection to those
susceptible to group think and the sewers of it tend to be far too willing to
act when they feel emboldened by numbers and the echo chamber.

~~~
coryl
Good point, maybe I've been jaded by spending so much time on the internet. Or
maybe I have a separation in the magnitude between what people write online
and what people actually do in public.

~~~
kls
The real danger is that they would still think it, even if they did not have
an online venue, and when they feel safe they offer sympathetic support to
those that will act on their hatred. The more echo's heard in the echo chamber
the more empowered those that will act feel, at some point they will feel that
their actions will be accepted or at least not countered, and at some point
they will be right. I am not arguing against free speech by any means. The
hate is still there even if they cant say it, so limiting speech only serves
to treat the symptoms and not the infection. As well limiting speech also has
the nasty side affect of limiting the ideas of those that are not in power,
even if they have the moral high-ground. Unfortunately the only solution to
fixing this infectious thinking is good old fashion education which seems to
be a harder and harder thing to do. Willful ignorance is a merit badge now
days and we celebrate it as being the epicenter of our culture by idolizing
individuals that so predominately display the characteristic.

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sp332
America is a big place. There are 300,000,000 people in here. Some places are
worse than others (NJ, for example).

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zephyrfalcon
The racist/anti-Obama/anti-Democrat remarks are getting many more "likes" than
those with opposing viewpoints. That does seem kind of odd for a site like
NBC; I would expect the numbers to be more balanced, at the very least. I
wonder if an influential right-wing site linked to the article, and this is
what's driving all the traffic.

~~~
ytadesse
Good point. I was curious about that too. Didn't consider the fact that there
could be various in-bound links from various sites.

------
rdouble
The comments in that thread aren't much different than what's said on talk
radio or even certain mainstream TV news and opinion programs. It's probably
not worth worrying about for your business aspirations but certainly is an
unpleasant facet of living in the USA.

------
ytadesse
As an update, I thought I'd share this with everyone here:

[http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57372861-71/bbc-
confronts-...](http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57372861-71/bbc-confronts-
facebook-troll/)

