
Why Millennials Can’t Grow Up - msohcw
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/12/millennial_narcissism_helicopter_parents_are_college_students_bigger_problem.html
======
Aqueous
Yay! Another article where the older generation shits on a younger generation.

Is it possible - and this is just me talking here - that maybe our generation
isn't composed of a bunch of emotional weaklings who can't bear the stress of
life, but that you guys fucked it up pretty badly for us? Your self-interested
conservative personal responsibility do it yourself policies bankrupted the
economy because you were asleep at the switch, and now we can't find jobs.

I can guarantee you that if you flip back several decades you'll find an
article in Life Magazine written by some asshole asking the question "Why are
the baby boomers such pussies? We fought World War II for crissake!"

A load of horseshit. Life is hard. Help, you assholes.

~~~
GuiA
The average parent's age for first child has never been higher, just like the
rate of 20-somethings still living with their parents.

No matter what the reasons for that are, you can't refute that it's bound to
have some interesting consequences on the psychology of the 20-somethings in
question.

~~~
Swizec
Average age is only up because women started child bearing later.

About a hundred years ago it was common for men in their very late 20's to
have finally built a life of their own and get a bride. A bride who was 16 or
so because that meant she still had plenty of child bearing years ahead of
her.

What if men just got back to that same state, while women have joined men in
this status instead of having the whole teenage pregnancy thing?

~~~
wambotron
Either you have rich grand/great-grandparents or we come from VERY different
places. My family has been historically poor up until my dad, who is just
middle class now. Both sides of my family have struggled until death. I don't
know of anyone other than maybe one or two who had parents growing up that had
"built a life of their own," then married and started a family in their very
late 20s.

~~~
Swizec
Historically I come from a family of peasants. Especially after WW2 both sides
of my family were poor, but there was a period before then that one side was
rich farmers.

They were only rich because my great grandfather bought the farm where he used
to work as essentially slave labor (they'd only get food and board in return
for being manual labourers, it was a thing back then).

But anyway, this age thing was something I read in books about late 19th and
very early 20th century.

------
spodek
It seems every generation discovers the same new problems of every generation
before it. And as each earlier generation matures, it describes the new
generation disparagingly.

This article described the movie The Graduate, which everyone felt described a
generation coming of age in the 60s. Pick other movies and books for other
times.

Take it far enough back and you have this quote

" _Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority,
they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise;
they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents,
chatter before company, gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers._ "

which sounds contemporary but dates back centuries (often attributed to
Socrates, but not likely that old). It sounds contemporary in every time.

I conclude things aren't suddenly getting worse --
[http://joshuaspodek.com/arent-suddenly-worse](http://joshuaspodek.com/arent-
suddenly-worse) \-- which makes my life better.

~~~
joelrunyon
Hey Josh,

I actually agree with your quote - but a surprising number of your posts /
comments / submissions are or have links / references to your site.

That's not inherently bad (I'm not against self promotion at all), but it sort
of comes across like your contribution to the site is one big promotion for
your site rather than focused on the contribution to the community.

Hopefully this isn't too out of line - but I thought I'd mention it as I've
seen a few of your posts in the past couple of days referencing that site
multiple times & realized they were all yours.

~~~
spodek
I go back and forth because I usually prefer to post on topics I like to write
about, which means I've often written about them elsewhere. I try to write
posts that get votes, implying the community values them, so I try to make
posts that stand on their own without clicking the links but get more depth
with clicking. If the material is relevant I could still leave it out, copy
it, or link to it. I'll use your feedback as a data point suggesting reducing
the links. I'm a fan of constructive criticism, though it feels funny doing it
publicly like this.

------
acadien
Hooray for anecdotal evidence! I even agree with some of it, but there's sweet
fuck all to back up any of it.

A highlight for the those of you that couldn't make it through the whole way:

"A generation ago, my college peers and I would buy a pint of ice cream and
down a shot of peach schnapps (or two) to process a breakup. Now some college
students feel suicidal after the breakup of a four-month relationship."

This shit is publishable?

~~~
xerophtye
Ok i din't read it all the way through so thanks for posting that. But
SERIOUSLY?!?!? You know it wasn't our generation that wrote "romeo and
juliet".... And i thought this was backwards now? I thought young people now
care even far less for relationships and more for sex...

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Untit1ed
This isn't a story representative of a generation, this is a story about one
messed-up 30 year old. I can't think of anyone I know who can't figure out how
to do laundry and homework in one day, and I don't think it's because I'm in a
circle of particularly self-sufficient Gen-Yers.

Honestly, if the Onion were stuck for content they could publish this article
word-for-word and I'd gladly believe it was supposed to be satire.

~~~
was_hellbanned
If I understood the author correctly, she is a psychotherapist talking about
people she sees professionally. So, this could just as easily be a story about
how Millennials are much more willing to see a therapist for these sorts of
problems than their parents' and grandparents' generations were.

~~~
supercanuck
Or maybe it is about people who are 30 and need therapy?

Why generalize an entire generation? ... because, page views.

I'm 32 and I HATE laundry and every single person in my age group that I have
met hates it too.

------
wambotron
I'm thirty but I do notice many of my coworkers and other folks my age cannot
grow up. It's not even just a matter of getting a job. Most of the folks I
know are still partying all the time as if they're at a high school kegger.

I'm not sure of the exact cause, but I do think people having children later
in life (late 30s, early 40s for many people I know) coupled with the fact
that most of them are only having one child causes a bit of over-involvement
and softening of parenting. There are too many "special snowflakes" who grow
up and cannot handle the fact that none of us are these special creatures and
you have to compete for everything you want and need to live.

I think shifting blame to older generations is a result of some of these
things. Yes, there have been some messed up things handed down to us, but it's
nothing we can't fix. We just have to get our act together, plan things out,
and work hard.

Life IS hard, but it's how you respond and adapt to hardships that define you.
Blaming everyone else is not going to do anything.

~~~
jrokisky
"you have to compete for everything you want and need to live." I think I'm a
special creature. This really depresses me. Do you think this is the ideal
situation? I don't understand why this is currently the case. In my opinion
there is more than enough to go around, and the majority of our daily problems
are caused by other humans.

~~~
secstate
Woah. That's the problem to a T. You hit it right on the head. You are not a
special creature. There are approximately 6 billion other creatures nearly as
capable as you trying to make a go of it right now, and a substantially
greater number who tried to make a go of it and are now dead.

The majority of our daily problems are caused by ourselves, not other people.
We think too much about ME and not enough about others. Try taking 30 minutes
a day to intentionally improve someone else's day.

And as long as I'm writing here, I'll note that parenthood becoming something
we hold out as long as possible to start down is probably one the single
greatest issues facing Western culture, and I'm not even convinced it's
altogether a bad thing (teenage pregnancy not great, yada yada yada). But the
full weight of responsibility of keeping someone else alive is enough to wake
anyone out of their delusions of self.

~~~
jrokisky
I agree that "we think too much about ME and not enough about others". I don't
understand how "having to compete for everything you want and need to live"
will encourage people to care less about themselves and more about others. I
think the opposite is true as evidenced by the current state of affairs.

I don't agree that "the majority of our daily problems are caused by
ourselves". I think most people's daily problems are the result of more
intelligent and selfish people taking advantage of them.

I agree that "taking 30 minutes a day to intentionally improve someone else's
day" is great advice and a fantastic investment of your time.

------
nisa
I fit into that description. 30. Lot's of problems related to money and
discipline. No helicopter parents through.

What I realize quite often when I'm talking to friends and what I hear very
often when I talk to my parents is a lack of deep social connections.

If you have a social circle you really like and you can count on it's far
easier to organize yourself and get your stuff done. Because you learn that
stuff together in your circle. You just grow faster in a group of like-minded
people than fighting all the bullshit alone.

Finding this social circle is pretty hard for me. If this social circle is
lacking or you just does not care about you if you don't fit their worldview
you are on your own. Now you are scared and desperate to to fit somewhere in.

Everyone is fighting their fight alone. It's more often than not a piss-match
about status and money and importance than a real friendship. The partying is
the illusion of this social circle that you want to keep in your life. If you
drop this you'll have to face that you are totally alone and nobody gives a
fuck about you.

If I talk to my parents or grandparents I realize that they still meet with
their colleagues from school or university or old jobs.

If you don't function now nobody cares. Old friendships just vanish.

This may be my problem. I'm not sure. Maybe I'm an loner or idiot. But there
is a difference in comparison to earlier generations and most people I know or
talk to feel pretty alone very often.

------
codex
Maturation cannot occur without independence. The Great Recession has
prevented independence for a large number of young people.

~~~
philwelch
I don't buy it. If it was a real recession rather than a chronic shortage in
marketable skills, some of these millennials wouldn't have mommies and daddies
who could afford to keep them around. My dad grew up in the Depression and
somehow managed to support himself from manual labor from the age of 14. Show
me an unemployed hipster 20-something willing to do day labor but unable to
find any. You can't find one.

Maybe this "Great Recession" is an effect, and not a cause, of the fact that
white Americans are increasingly too decadent to work for a fucking living.

~~~
secstate
Amen. And of course eventually we'll have something like a massive ecological
disruption (or War with China) that will fuck everything up all over again and
we wont have time to write asinine op-eds about "what's wrong with people" (or
comment on them, pot ... kettle black). We'll be too busy digging our asses
out of despair.

------
ecspike
A lot of these parents are enablers. They made it ok for their overachiever
kids to have no job as opposed to a job not in their field of study.

I graduated during the recession of 2003-2004 which was almost as long as the
Great Recession. We've been technically out of the recession for over 3 years.

------
ChristianMarks
What's wrong with contempt for authority? Is there a more appropriate target
for contempt? As for lacking respect for elders, why do they deserve respect?
I certainly should not have listened to my elders when I was younger. They did
me no favors, and it took decades for me to stop listening to them. Now that
I'm old enough to be one of them, I must say that I am supremely unimpressed.

------
LetMeListen
I'm 21, do not have a college degree, work for 7.50hr, and feel exactly like
this with the exception that I have to deal with it on my own because I
neither have the time or money to spend on therapy. I've learn to deal with
things and keep it moving because no one else is going to lend you a hand
unless you have something to give in return; that's how I see it anyways.

~~~
neona
Similar situation here, my only problem is that while I am able to (barely)
sustain myself, depression and similar issues are continuing to stymie what
attempts I can make to better my situation. I honestly don't know what I think
these days, other than that something needs to change, and I'm starting to
wonder if I'm not as much of the problem as I like to tell myself.

~~~
LetMeListen
Stop thinking that. Think of yourself as the last piece of wonderful on earth
and that everyone is here to compliment you, as egotistical as this sound it
will boost your morale.

------
hindsightbias
This is just a bot regurgitating all the mille stereotypes.

------
brianbarker
Yet another "Millennials Suck" article. Woooptie doo. What's really going on
is the Baby Boomers are getting old and they're sounding like that old Grandpa
in his rocking chair bemoaning "kids these days."

------
aresant
Things are inherently different with and for the Millennials:

[http://www.pewresearch.org/millennials/](http://www.pewresearch.org/millennials/)

[http://cew.georgetown.edu/failuretolaunch/](http://cew.georgetown.edu/failuretolaunch/)

I particularly appreciate the data from PEW as it allows for contrast vs. Gen
X / Boomers at the same age / place.

------
od2m
I think millennials are simply on the verge of realizing that the American
dream they've been sold is a lie, and they don't know what to do.

Meanwhile the older generations are screaming at them "Pay for my medicare and
medicaid that won't be there for you! Pay taxes to pay my state funded
pension! I don't care that you cant afford a home, or medical care, or
college! I don't care that we outsourced your jobs and that you can't make
enough money to be poor!"

------
brisance
This is entirely anecdotal but "Amy" could very well be my sister-in-law. Yes,
she's 30. Her previous two boyfriends had the same first name and the current
guy she's seeing also has the same first name. I don't think that's
coincidental. I think partly my mother-in-law is to blame because of
helicopter parenting and always leans on my wife (the older sister) to serve
as an emotional support.

------
joelrunyon
Great counterpoint in the New York Times the other day on the shifting values
of millenials.

[http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/01/opinion/sunday/millennial-...](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/01/opinion/sunday/millennial-
searchers.html)

This is more the extrapolation of one struggling 30 year old onto a generation
rather than the symptoms of an entire group of people

------
ChrisNorstrom
People keep looking for that magical ONE reason why everything is the way it
is. It's NOT just 1 cause of these problem, it's numerous.

The Job Market - Automated and outsourced jobs have limited workplace
opportunities over the decades. From all the older folks I talk to, they
mention how much easier it was to get a job and how many jobs there were back
when they were young compared to today.

The Money - Inflation has made the price of everything more expensive, yet
most wages have relatively stayed the same. So I'm getting payed the same
amount yet the price of everything around me is getting higher. I feel like I
can't ever catch up.

Growing up and Relationships - Almost every single friend I have ever had has
divorced parents. The rare few whose parents are still married are miserable.
Is this what awaits me? Find love, start a family, be miserable? Growing up is
extremely discouraging when you can see the terrible results of "growing up"
all around you. I don't want to hate the person I love. I'm afraid of finding
a spouse because I've seen what happens when others do. It's like walking down
a dark alley covered in others' blood, and every time you turn around to run
away a sea of voices taunt you with "stop being a pussy! grow up and go down
the dark alley like we did". I don't want to go down a road knowing there's
something bad at the end. Sorry.

Work Hard/Don't work hard Paradox - It pisses me off when I hear someone say
"kids these days don't work hard enough!" and "Go to college so you can get a
good job in an office somewhere and not doing manual labor" in the same
conversation. This one is just confusing. Which is it? When I get a job
working hard I'm looked down upon by peers because I don't work at Google or
Facebook. I'm looked down upon by my parents because the job doesn't have
dental and health and 40 hours a week and $20/hour. Hard working jobs do not
pay well because they're so plentiful and there's a lot of people trying to
get hired. So the prices are crap.

America's Greed Problem: You cannot tell me you don't see it. From the bank
bailouts, to the behavior of the car companies that needed to be bailed out,
to outsourcing jobs, to the housing market (caused by people buying up homes,
barely doing work on them, and flipping them to the next sucker) it feels like
America's collective goal is to #1) create as shitty of a product as possible
and sell it at the highest price possible and #2) find the most efficient and
legal way to fuck people over. My parents worked so hard to buy the crappy
house we have now at 7 times the price of a house in Bulgaria, and still it's
always falling apart and needs maintenance while homes in Bulgaria are built
like a rock, out of brick and cement, more energy efficient, and cost less.

Extremist Politics: It feels like the liberal and conservative parties have
gone to more and more polarizing extremes to differentiate themselves and
counter-balance the other party's philosophies. This has turned into 2 parties
that don't listen and don't think but instead react using old traditionally
memorized values. When looking at Republicans and Democrats, they've all but
stopped "thinking" about each problem that faces the nation and instead throw
their "blanket solutions" over whatever problem comes their way. If one party
were truly better than the other, we would have kept them in power
permanently. Instead we switch parties every decade or so. This political
environment isn't getting problems solved. It's not giving me hope for a
better future. And it sucks that my only choices every few years are between
people who are either hard working but backwards thinking or people who are
educated but lazy and bureaucratic.

Oh and the best part: Every 4 years I get to pick a president from 2 unproven
daydreamers with unrealistic promises.

For me personally, I don't want to grow up because I don't see the payoff in
growing up. I know watching my parents abuse themselves by overworking only to
come home and be tired and miserable isn't much of a motivation. And the
response from others has always been "well that's life you lazy p.o.s.".
People don't even know me yet they call me lazy. I've worked outdoors, in
warehouses, in tree removal, at theme parks. I've had really hard manual labor
jobs. I can assure you I'm a hard worker and not "lazy". People will work hard
but there has to be a payoff, that's how all games work. And when the game of
life doesn't come with its rewards, people don't want to play anymore. Even
the makers of Farmville knew that.

------
joelrunyon
Related (humorous) video:

 _Millennials: We Suck and We 're Sorry_

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4IjTUxZORE](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4IjTUxZORE)

