
The NBA Feels a Backlash in China After a Tweet Supporting Hong Kong - bubmiw
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-nba-feels-a-backlash-in-china-after-a-tweet-supporting-hong-kong-11570396236?mod=rsswn
======
reaperducer
China is offended by him offering an opinion on something. So, that makes them
right?

I'm offended by his backpedaling. That makes me right, right?

China really needs to get a grip and understand that with seven billion people
in the world, not everyone is going to agree with everything it wants.

~~~
khc
This is more representing the power of social media mob justice than what
"China" wants. It's really not that different from how the left or the right
boycott a business after any other tweet

~~~
alisonatwork
This is only superficially true.

In China the CPC exercises strict control over what topics are allowed to
trend on social media, so what appears to be "mob justice" is actually a
carefully curated event. The state media chose to report on this rather than
ignore it. The Cyberspace Administration chose to allow this outrage to gain
momentum while topics that do not toe the party line are squashed.

You cannot really compare the kind of social media "mob justice" people speak
of in the west to how things are managed on the Chinese internet.

~~~
chadcmulligan
likewise any criticism of Chinese policy that occurs on the internet is no
doubt being monitored and influenced by an army of Chinese intelligence
operatives

~~~
chadcmulligan
It seems they're downvoting my criticisms :-D

------
o10449366
US companies are increasingly "owned" by the Chinese government through
Chinese investment. None of them are willing to risk the financial backlash
that would occur if they spoke out against the Chinese government - so they
are willing to censor their own platforms and sacrifice their own stakeholders
and users to please them.

~~~
nradov
This is an increasing factor in the US motion picture industry. Major studios
are generally unwilling to produce movies that show China or the Chinese
Communist Part in a negative light due to the need for financing and
distribution.

~~~
zaroth
Studios will absolutely modify screenplays, or else edit the films
specifically for the China market to remove offensive or politically sensitive
topics.

It’s worth a lot of money to them to make a product which sells well in the
Chinese market.

~~~
magicsmoke
Could be an interesting market niche for a studio that makes movies that
unapologetically espouses western values and doesn't take any money from
nondemocratic funders. See if it's possible to earn a profit without selling
out.

~~~
chronic71819
> See if it's possible to earn a profit without selling out.

Unfortunately it's not possible.

Nearly everyone on HN would rather invest in a total stock market index fund,
simply because it gives better returns. How much different? Approximately 1%
more.

So there you have it. People will sell out for 1% of their portfolio. Myself
included.

~~~
GooglyMoogly
Google said no to China's censorship and is doing pretty well.

~~~
dirtyid
In 2018, Google made 3 billion in Chinese ad sales. Facebook made 5 billion.

~~~
GooglyMoogly
My thought is that it's ok to deal with China as long as they play by our
rules not their rules (such as censorship). If they see that they can still
operate successfully under a system with freedom of speech, maybe they won't
be so against it.

But yes, you do have to be careful not to let them become a large enough
percentage of revenue that the company would be in danger if China started
threatening to pull out.

~~~
dirtyid
I agree that if you don't want to beholden to foreign rules, then don't become
dependent on foreign markets. But what is this "our rules" business? Google
lobbying rules that's currently clashing with the EU. Or US foreign policy
rules?

~~~
GooglyMoogly
Freedom of speech

------
abhigupta
"If you want to know who rules over you look at who you are not allowed to
criticize"

~~~
magicsmoke
You can criticize China, but then you lose their dollars.

So in the end, the thing that rules over you is actually money.

~~~
maxharris
There's a difference between a _who_ and a _what_.

Also consider: you can ask a PRC official what they think, and you'll get a
response. Try to do the same thing to a pile of money? Crickets.

~~~
traderjane
That's not obvious at all in any place in the world.

------
tjpnz
It's frightening to what degree China is able to censor people living well
outside of their jurisdiction.

~~~
chadcmulligan
Indeed, at what time and place do we decide to draw a line? I feel that time
and place is nearly here.

~~~
mistermann
10 years ago would have been an opportune time, that no one is able to refuse
their censorship seems like reasonable proof that they've become too powerful
to do anything about.

~~~
chadcmulligan
so we roll over and just take it?

~~~
mistermann
That seems like one of many plausibly optimal approaches, but no one is able
to see the future.

The time for such conversations is long past, and it certainly wasn't me
assuring people that this massive experiment will undoubtedly work out just
fine.

------
saboot
I am surprisingly conflicted. My strongest urge is to plainly say, screw them.
China is a dictatorship, they are actively stomping out freedoms which I very
much believe everyone living person had a right to. If they can't stand
hearing the truth, fine, no NBA in China.

In the back of my mind, I also recognize that isolation and division breeds
more isolation and division. No NBA in China means less Western and Eastern
cultural exchange. China doesn't have that kind of influence in our country,
yet our American sport is hugely popular there.

~~~
throwaway1777
“China doesn’t have that kind of influence in our country”. Yet here we are
discussing them.

~~~
saboot
What does China produce that we have fans for? I don't see many cultural
exports from them in America.

~~~
twno1
Instead wasting time to build culture influence. They simply bought companies
from western and become rule maker.

For example, Tencent already bought two popular esport game companies from
U.S.(riot game /epic game). Not only for making money, also for ruling esport
world.

[https://www.pcgamer.com/every-game-company-that-tencent-
has-...](https://www.pcgamer.com/every-game-company-that-tencent-has-invested-
in/)

------
temp31213
And this is how China slowly takes away American's freedom of speech. This is
their 'soft' power.

------
blondie9x
Why can't Hong Kong just vote then we can end these protests? The people could
vote for a leader who wants closer ties and one who wants more autonomy but
let them vote and have a say in the matter. I do not think voting will lead to
secession but maybe to a sense of freedom and the ability to influence
direction of country.

~~~
beerandt
You do realize:

1- voting got implemented over there only a few years before the handover.
It's a relatively new and fluid concept to them.

2- industries/businesses get to vote. These are increasingly owned by China

3- China maintains veto power for any political candidates

If only it were as simple as "just vote"

~~~
throwaway1997
Even with our fake democracy, it's very common for people to buy votes from
elderly people, who make up much of the population, and don't really
understand democracy.

We have a lot of poverty here so it's very easy to buy votes by just hosting a
dinner at a average restaurant, telling the people all the wonderful plans you
have for HK then giving them a trinket to help them remember to vote for you.

------
fooey
The entire content of the tweet:

"Fight for Freedom. Stand with Hong Kong"

------
99chrisbard
Did NBA compare Xi to Winnie the Pooh? Haha. Seriously, China should stop
being so authoritative.

------
latch
A bit interesting to contrast this to the NFL anthem protests. In both cases,
there's been a lot of political pressure and some social media backlash.
However in the US, to the best of my knowledge, sponsors have stuck on the
"right" side and, according to wiki, have been rewarded for it.

------
jsgo
While I'm not a fan of how the NBA is handling this, I kind of lay the whole
thing on their doorstep.

Political commentary is not new in the NBA. LeBron was told (indirectly) on
Fox News to "Shut up and dribble" as an example. So if China/Hong Kong was an
untouchable topic as it now appears to be, why not send out communications to
teams that people aren't to comment on it? Does that stop someone from doing
so? Not really, but in this particular case he walked it back and the NBA now
has to be incredibly defensive. This seems like it could've been avoided so it
is an unforced error on their part.

------
emersonrsantos
As South Park brilliantly told us: “You’re gonna have to lower your ideals of
freedom if you want to suck on the warm teat of China.”

------
boomboomsubban
I don't understand many people's view of the Chinese. This is not the state of
China ordering the NBA around, this is an action by their people.

And though it is likely that China helped make the people aware of this event,
nationist individuals using blatant propaganda to attack people on Twitter is
not a problem unique to China.

------
AFascistWorld
He didn't even tweet it, just a like. And the media and west should stop
pretending that the people don't like and support the party.

------
TheMagicHorsey
Are we all going to become chickenshits to earn Chinese money?

The companies and people of the Western world need to stand up to
authoritarian China ... or else, in 25 years our kids are all going to be
tasting the boot heel of whatever god emperor China has on its throne at that
time (probably still Xi).

We are all underestimating how authoritarian China is and how much crime the
Politburo members get away with.

~~~
chadcmulligan
indeed, the price of a cheap TV is becoming to high

------
mytailorisrich
It would be interesting to understand why an American basketball team thought
it would be a good idea to make a public political statement, on a foreign
issue that does not concern them, when their (main?) sponsors are apparently
from the country they decided to effectively criticise... It is puzzling.

I suspect this might just be their Twitter guy who screwed up, and might now
be out of a job.

------
TheSpiceIsLife
What does fighting for freedom and standing with Hong Kong have to do with
promoting sport?

Why not just shut the fuck to and promote sport?

This is how we know some (many?) successful people just got lucky with the
birth lottery and generally being in the right places and knowing the right
people.

~~~
SpicyLemonZest
It doesn't have anything to do with promoting sport, which is why the guy
tweeted on his personal account.

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
Except that Daryl Morey, as a public figure in his role as general manager of
an NBA team doesn’t get much of a distinction between personal and public.

Which is why we’re here having this conversation.

------
diego
So many misunderstandings around this. For one, in the US we have free speech.
That means that you can say anything you want, but you have to accept that you
may lose customers for saying it. It doesn't matter if you believe that your
customers shouldn't be pissed off. It's the Chinese in this case, but it could
be any other relevant group.

Second, perhaps because most Americans haven't been to China and cannot read
Chinese, they can't really appreciate this situation. Hong Kong is a part of
China, and they are in the middle of a transition period from British rule.
It's inevitable that they will be incorporated into the country, and it's
really too late to try to turn that around. They could have tried to stay
under British rule, but they gambled on the fact that they expected a very
different future for China. The gamble did not pay off, and it is what it is.
The rest of China (not just the government) wants them to assimilate, and it
will happen. If you live in Hong Kong and you don't like that, really your
only reasonable option is to move. It's not a given that the protestors are in
the "right" and it's not a given that there is a right side on this. Just
misaligned interests.

~~~
99chrisbard
> they gambled on the fact that they expected a very different future for
> China.

Hong Kong was always going to return to China in 1997 due to a British-China
deal. There's no way for HK to NOT return to China.

~~~
chadcmulligan
Isn't that up to the people of HK?

~~~
khuey
Short of an actual revolution no.

~~~
chadcmulligan
that to is up to the people of HK, if thats what it takes

~~~
brokensegue
by that argument everything is always "up the people". "well if they don't
like $X they can always revolt."

revolt isn't a very flexible means of expressing the wills of the people.

~~~
chadcmulligan
But if the people in power use force to prevent a legitimate discussion then
the only avenue left is revolution. There is no legitimate way for the people
to involve in discussion, the HK protesters want democracy, the Chinese
government doesn't. What alternative do the HK citizens have apart from not be
part of China?

Edit: further there is no way to express dissent in China, the HKers are
taking their life in their hands by expressing dissent. I can think of no time
this happens in the west.

~~~
khuey
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution
inevitable."

------
XPKBandMaidCzun
Hong Kong is definitely heading in the direction of complete independence.
Thankfully.

I agree completely that the angst in HK is caused by outsiders. It has to feel
terrible for HK people having their representation grabbed by agents of
Beijing. They should apologize and grant universal suffrage to all people born
in HK.

Most important in this is HK establishing its own military service, intel
service, constitution (not just the Basic law oath of fealty to PRC), and UN
representation. These are the remaining things HK needs to be treated like any
other nation.

Since the rule of law is what matters, it will be important that judges and
lawyers have adequate time to adapt to the any changes in the legal process
after transition is complete.

The thing that has yet to be decided is how the legislature in HK will be
structured though. Maybe in /r/hongkong they can bring it up.

But most important will be China staying out of meddling in Hong Kong's
internal affairs. This is about Hong Kong people planning new system separate
from PRC. After that is complete PRC has the same right to establish treaties
the same way as Japan, USA, etc.

~~~
wei_jok
This post does not represent what HKers involved in the movement want, which
is autonomy (as per Basic Law), not independence.

~~~
XPKBandMaidCzun
You are right in regards to the current movement. In the 5 demands it says,
"...implementation of universal suffrage for Legislative Council and Chief
Executive elections"

Which could feasibly be done within the confines of the basic law. It is true
many pro-democratic HKers don't want independence.

For some more context for those reading into it:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_independence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_independence)
vs
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Hong_Kong_protests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Hong_Kong_protests)

But I should also be complete and let you know there is a fledgling and
growing movement, the so-called "Republic of Cantonia", who believe all
Guangdong should be break into its own nation. You can see the flag here:
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_active_autonomis...](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_active_autonomist_and_secessionist_movements)

