
Work for only 3 hours a day, but everyday - NonUmemoto
http://plumshell.com/2016/03/10/work-for-only-3-hours-a-day-but-everyday/
======
err4nt
I have experienced a similar thing while freelancing or design and web
development. I used to work 16 hours some days and less hours others, but then
sometimes I would need to work and found it hard to kick it into gear.

I think creativity is like a well, and when you do creative work its like
drawing that water out. If you use too much water one day, the well runs dry.
You have to wait for the goundwater to fill it up again.

Not only did I begin viewing creativity as a limited resource I create and
have access to over time, but I noticed that some activities, like reading
about science, listening to music, and walking around town actually increase
the rate at which the well fills up.

So now I have made it a daily habit of doing things that inspire me, and I
also daily draw from the well like the author said - but Im more careful not
to creatively 'overdo it' and leave myself unable to be creative the next day.

Viewing it this way has helped a lot, for all the same benefits the author
listed. Im in a rhythm where I dont feel I need a break on the weekend, I just
still have energy.

~~~
vram22
Do you think this is related to biorhythms? I meant to post an Ask HN on it
recently, then saw your comment. I know a lot of people will dismiss it as
pseudo-science, but my reply to that kind of answer, is sometimes this: if we
could go back in time and describe to a cave man or even a person of two or
three or ten centuries ago, some of the inventions that we take as commonplace
today, like airplanes, computers, land line phones, cellphones, fax, Internet,
TV, credit cards, bikes, cars, satellites, CAT scans, X-rays, etc. etc., they
would disbelieve us, think we were mad, and maybe burn us at the stake as
dangerous witches. Apply the analogy to today. So, many of the things that are
dismissed as pseudo-science, may just be things that actually work or are
true, but we just don't happen to know how they work or the physical laws that
govern them, as of now.

~~~
err4nt
I have found a daily cycle of rest and work much easier to sustain for long
stretches of time without creative burnout a lot easier than weekly work/rest
cycles. Now I wake up on the weekends and fill note book pages with ideas and
plans and concepts and I often go build them, where before it was all I could
do to keep working when I had to work without running dry.

I feel like great philosopher, Juicy J, "I'm still working while I'm on
vacation, You can't tell me nothing 'bout my dedication"

Well Said Mr. J.

------
JacobAldridge
If I told you that every car needed 8 gallons of gas to drive 100 miles, you'd
point out I was wrong - so many different makes and models, not to mention
variables from tire pressure to driving style.

Yet for the potentially even more complex range that is different people, it
amazes me that so much of the advice is didactic - we all need 8 hours sleep,
8 glasses of water, and 8 hours of work with breaks is optimal.

The closest I get to advice is 'learn your body and what works for you'.
Thanks to the OP for sharing what works for him.

~~~
lucaspiller
This is one of my gripes about working in an office. More often than not I
cannot work continuously from 9-5, and end up wasting time just trying to get
myself back into working mode - which usually descends into browsing
HN/Reddit/etc or just working half as effectively as I usually do.

When I work remotely and have freedom over my time, I can take a few hours off
to go for a walk, sleep, go for a long lunch, meet friends, or even play
games. Afterwards I feel recharged and can be 110% productive, and usually end
up working more hours than I would in an office.

I did this for a lot of last year, as I needed to overlap with teams in India
and PST, so I usually worked 10am - 10pm taking a few hours off in the
afternoon. I was able to get so much more done because of that extended break.

~~~
agumonkey
A friend at work prefer to stay at work incontrolably doozing rather than
taking a cut, because "that's not proper", even though he will spend that time
on reddit, self loathing, doubling the negative effect.

~~~
scroy
That sounds like the typical Japanese salaryman lifestyle, from what I've
heard...

------
jiblylabs
As a freelancer, I understand where some of the comments "As a freelancer this
won't work" are coming from. However, the last year I've flipped my
freelancing model where I offer a more productized service with a clearly
defined scope and set price. Instead of doing design work for $XXX/h, I'll
deliver A,B,C within Timeframe Y, for Price $XXXX. With clearly defined
services, I've actually been working for the last 12 months using a similar
model, usually constraining myself to 4h/day with weekends off. My
productivity + revenue have increased dramatically. Productizing your service
makes it easier to market and generate leads, while it gives you the
flexibility to work the way you want and actually free up time. Awesome post
OP!

~~~
dkopi
This approach has a lot of pros and cons. By committing to a fixed price for a
project, you're taking a lot of risk on yourself.

What if it takes more than Y? What if you weren't able to expect the true
scope of the project? What if the customer isn't cooperative and wastes your
time? What is considered a reasonable delivery? How many bugs do you continue
to fix for free without charging more? How many changes to you put in your
design without charging more?

Working at an hourly rate saves a lot of legal and contractual headaches. Its
also critical when you're working with an agile company that has constantly
changing needs and expectations.

~~~
rokhayakebe
_What if it takes more than Y?_

No problem there. Educate your clients. Tell them if it takes significantly
longer than expected you will come back to them. Tell them it is not likely
but you want to be straight from the beginning.

~~~
dkopi
You still end up taking the financial risk on yourself.

It's one thing if the project is delay because of you. Its another thing if
the project is delayed because their backend guy hasn't fixed a few bugs and
you're stuck creating ugly workarounds in the client code.

------
wilblack
I started contract work last fall. I set me rate assuming a 25 hour work week.
At first I tried working ~4 hrs / day everyday day. I quickly realized this
did not work for me. Working everyday, even just a little is not sustainable
for me. I have a family and they are still on the 9 to 5 schedule, so working
even a few hours on weekends cut into my family time which is important to me.
So now I force myself to take at least one weekend day off with no prgramming.
This is hard because I love to program. Also I have a hard cutoff time during
the week days at about 5:30pm when my wife and kid get home. I usually feel
like I want to keep working but that forces me to stop (at least until my
daughter goes to bed). So now I work 5 or 6 days a week but seldom exceed 6
hours/ day. Most days are closer to 4hrs. It's great at this pace because I
usually always feel like i want to keep programming so I don't get burnt out.
And if I do have an off day I just don't work.

The problem I am running into now is what do I do with my spare time? All my
hobbies are computer based (video games and Raspberry Pi projects) but I am
trying to minimize my screen time in my off hours. This will get better in the
spring and summer as the weather gets better but during winter on the Oregon
Coast going outside is hit or miss.

And I hear you about not being able to go to bed until I solve a problem I am
stuck on, that drives me crazy.

~~~
vhost-
Since you mentioned Oregon, you should try rock climbing. This is one of the
best places in the country to be a climber given we have Smith Rock, Broughton
bluff and other climbing areas.

I've been climbing for years outside work and I feel like it's a great hobby
for programmers. It gets you outside and you are essentially problem solving.
I found my side projects (video games, rpi things, fun programming) are much
more productive when I spend time climbing.

I also found it helps me not think about work. Before I started climbing, I
would think about my next work day non-stop which was totally counter-
productive. I would over think things and then get stuck in a rut for weeks at
a time. I now care less about my work when I'm off and I think it's actually
made me a better employee.

~~~
walking
Anything where I have to really focus on motor skills seems to work for me.

I used do indoor and outdoor rock climbing. I also used to free climb
buildings, when I was younger and less risk-averse (I'm not suggesting anyone
free climbs buildings; it's dangerous and illegal :P).

Right now I don't have the opportunities to do as much climbing as I'd like,
and I started learning to play the violin. It has a similar effect because I
have to really focus on what I'm doing, and there's no mental space for other
issues. I'm also not really good enough for creating music to be a creative
process. Mostly I just work on drills and scales. Doesn't really get you
outside though.

Personally, if I _really_ want to unwind my brain, I find a super pulpy book
series and read it. The less intellectual the better.

------
susam
I agree with this article mostly, although 3 hours a day might be too little
to make good progress with work for some people.

This article reminded me of my previous workplace (about 7 years ago) where my
manager discouraged engineers from working for more than 6 hours a day. He
recommended 4 hours of work per day and requested us not to exceed more than 6
hours of work per day. He believed working for less number of hours a day
would lead to higher code quality, less mistakes and more robust software.

Although, he never went around the floor ensuring that engineers do not exceed
6 hours of work a day, and some engineers did exceed 6 hours a day, however,
in my opinion, his team was the most motivated team on the floor.

~~~
chris11
Did he differentiate between more demanding work like writing code and less
demanding work like going to meetings?

~~~
susam
No, he was not specific about what the 4 hours of work included. However,
working on code consumed about 90% of our time. Meetings were held once a week
for 30 minutes. The time spent on emails and updating bug tracker usually
varied anywhere between 0 minutes to 45 minutes per day.

------
shin_lao
3 hours a day is just not enough for everyone.

For some projects it's perfectly fine but some tasks can only be done if you
focus for a large amount of time on it, work obsessively on it until you reach
a milestone.

The greatest work I have ever done, was always done when I retreated like a
monk for several weeks, cutting myself of the whole world and working almost
non-stop on the task until I made a significant breakthrough.

Then I go back to the livings and share the fruits of my work, and of course,
take a well deserved rest for several days.

The trap into most people fall is that they are confusing being _active_ and
_working_.

~~~
Nemcue
I too do my absolute best work in that kind of mode. However, I'm thoroughly
lacking on the "take a well deserved rest" part after crunching on my own.
Since no one actually sees me working so hard, I have no idea how I would go
about making sure client/boss would be happy with that.

------
dkopi
I'm pretty sure this has worked for the author, and it will work for a lot of
other people as well, but a lot the benefits raised can still be achieved when
working more than 3 hours a day.

A few points are raised in the post: 1\. If you only work 3 hours, you're less
tempted to go on twitter/facebook/hacker news.

True - but that's really a question of discipline, work environment and how
excited you are about what you're working on. It's perfectly possible to
perform for 10 hours straight without distractions, just make sure to take an
occasional break for physical health.

2\. Better prioritization.

Treating your time as a scarce resource helps focus on the core features. But
your time is a scarce resource even if you work 12 hours a day. Programmers
are in shortage. They cost a lot. And the time you're spending on building
your own apps could have been spent freelancing and working for someone else's
apps. Always stick a dollar figure on your working hours. Even if you're
working on your own projects. You should always prioritize your tasks, and
always consider paying for something that might save you development time
(Better computer. better IDE. SaaS solutions, etc).

3\. Taking a long break can help you solve a problem you're stuck on.

Personally, I find that taking a short walk, rubber duck debugging or just
changing to a different task for a while does the same. If I'm stuck on
something, I don't need to stop working on it until tomorrow. I just need an
hour or two away from it.

~~~
geographomics
On the topic of work environment: in one job I worked at, we had the Internet
machines completely separated from the work machines. If you needed to check
something you had to physically walk over to the Internet desk. Great for
focussing on the task at hand without distraction, and considering carefully
what information you need.

~~~
dkopi
"Air gapping".
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_gap_(networking)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_gap_\(networking\))

It's common practice in classified environments, as a necessary security
precaution. But it's a true productivity killer imho. Better to just install
an extension that blocks twitter/facebook etc, than completely cripple your
ability to search for technical information as you need it.

Also - good luck installing tools and plugins when you have to start copying
things from the internet computer to the classified computer.

~~~
wtbob
> Better to just install an extension that blocks twitter/facebook etc, than
> completely cripple your ability to search for technical information as you
> need it.

With godoc, man pages, info pages, a local copy of the Common Lisp Hyperspec
and Usenet, what more does one need?

~~~
bpchaps
At the last place I did sysadmin work, this was basically how I functioned.
Just about everything was done to prevent having to use google, stackoverflow,
etc. It was absolutely amazing in terms of learning and gaining confidence in
the tools and documentation, etc.... but nah. After about 3 months of that, I
gave up. It's possible, but it led to so may "time wasting" rabbit holes in
trying to figure things out. I thoroughly enjoyed it, but in hindsight, it
probably wasn't the best use of time while at work (and should be frowned upon
if management ever suggests it)!

------
andretti1977
I agree with the author with some exceptions: when you are working as a
contractor or freelancer for someone else's project maybe 3h/day is not
acceptable. When you've got externally imposed deadlines 3h/day may not be
sufficient.

But i agree that working less than 8h/day could be really more productive. I
also liked the "less stuck for coding" topic as "...it is sometimes hard to go
bed without solving some unknown issues, and you don’t want to stop coding in
the middle of it..." so maybe forcing themselves to stop could be a solution.

Anyway, i would really like to work 4 or 5 hours a day but keeping holidays
and weekends free from work and i think this can only be achieved if you can
pay your living with products of your own such as your apps and not by
freelancing (i am a freelance and i know it!).

But i enjoyed the idea behind the article and i will try to achieve it one
day.

~~~
driverdan
> when you are working as a contractor or freelancer for someone else's
> project maybe 3h/day is not acceptable. When you've got externally imposed
> deadlines 3h/day may not be sufficient.

There's an easy solution to that problem: don't take on those projects. If
they don't fit into your schedule don't do them.

~~~
wilblack
You could say that but it seems like you will be turning down a lot of work.
If you are only working 3 to 4 hours a day it is not that hard to double yours
hours for a week or two to meet a client's deadline. It will keep your clients
happy and if you charge by the hour it a nice bonus on your invoice.

~~~
Michielvv
I think the assumption of the author is that the 3 hours he does work are
best-case productive hours. If you work 40+ hours a week, you still have to
account for all those staring-at-your screen hours, that are not contributing
towards meeting the deadline.

Somewhat related: I found it is a lot easier (and natural) to estimate
projects in terms of 'ideal' hours. And then just assume there are only 20 to
25 of those a week. That quite closely matches the 21 hours of the original
post.

~~~
ghaff
This is somewhat different but, back when I did consulting work that often
involved writing in some form, we tended to think in terms of the work that we
could do in a "production day" of about 4 hours. The thinking was that, on a
given day, we'd spend about half on project-based work and about half on the
phone with clients and others, doing miscellaneous research and "research,"
internal discussions, and various administrivia. Sometimes we'd buckle down
more to get something done and other times we were at conferences and the like
--but we found this a good rule-of-thumb.

------
rmsaksida
I mostly agree with the author, but I don't see the point of stopping yourself
when you're "in the zone". Why lose the flexibility?

What works for me is having a baseline of 3 or 4 hours of daily work, and not
imposing any hard limits when I want or need to do extra hours. This works out
great, because I have no excuses _not_ to do the boring routine work as it's
just a few hours, but I also have the liberty of doing obsessive 10h sessions
when I'm trying to solve a tough problem or when I'm working on something fun.

~~~
sleepychu
The author thinks in the long run the 10h sessions hurt you. They acknowledge
specifically that got a week long exercise more work will produce more results
but that they feel their average productivity is much higher over months or
years by never getting bogged down even when they're making progress.

~~~
kethinov
The 3 hours every day pattern might work for the author and many other people
but it won't work for everyone. That's the problem with generalizing. There's
no one size fits all solution for an optimal work schedule.

I think the lesson to learn from this is that we should work harder to not
only remove the stigma of unusual work schedules, but encourage them so people
can discover their maximum productivity schedule for themselves.

------
jacquesm
There is a much better alternative: work really hard for 2 to 3 months per
year and then take the rest of the year off. If you're doing high value
consulting you can easily do this. You may have to forego some luxury but
that's a very small price to pay for the freedom you get in return.

~~~
Melk
That was my schedule the past 8 or 9 years (actually it was closer to working
4 months and taking 8 months off because I'm not that high value). The problem
is that I like what I do but the months I was working I enjoyed it less and
the months I was off I missed working. Also it's killing for your social life
when you're working nonstop. Another problem is you'll lose clients if you're
not available for months at a time. My new schedule is closer to what the post
describes and it works much better for me personally.

~~~
jacquesm
> Another problem is you'll lose clients if you're not available for months at
> a time.

Yes, I can see how that would be possible, this is not a problem for me
because of the work that I do but in other lines of work it could really kill
your momentum.

------
jjoe
It reads like someone who isn't doing much of realtime support. This works
great for projects that haven't been unveiled or even ones that require little
ongoing maintenance like a game. But if I worked 3 hours a day, my clients
would crucify me.

Sadly, it isn't always possible.

------
maxxxxx
When I was freelancing there were a lot of days when I didn't do much but then
there were days when I got into the flow and worked 2 or 3 days almost
straight. Most of the time this ended up at around 40 hours/ week on average
but in spurts. This was probably the best work environment I have ever been
in.

I hate about the corporate workplace that it doesn't accept any kind of rhythm
but treats you like a machine that performs exactly the same at all times.
Nature is built around seasons and so are humans. They are not machines.

I would much prefer to have a time sheet where I can do my 40 hours whenever I
feel like it.

~~~
thearn4
This is one thing about federal work that I can appreciate, if nothing else,
it is at least flexible.

------
joeguilmette
I work on a remote team and I am only accountable for my output. I end up
working 15-25hrs a week. Sometimes more if something is on fire.

I usually work 7 days a week, but invariably a couple days a week I only work
an hour, checking email and replying to people.

The work I do is of better quality, I'm happier, and I easily could work at
this pace until the day I die.

------
LiweiZ
I work 4-5 hours everyday but everyday on my own project. I wish I could have
more time on work since most of the rest time I have is allocated to housework
and taking care of two little ones. I guess the key is to control your work
pace. When a sprint is needed and you are ready for it, a two-week with 90-100
hours in each week would not be a bad idea. Just like running. Listen to your
body, pick your pace and keep going towards your goal.

------
spajus
How to pull this through when you are paid by the hour?

~~~
brianwawok
You either learn to live on less, or switch to billing by project ;)

------
a-saleh
Nice!

I actually had similar routine while at school, but it was 6 hours a day
total. 3 hours in the evening, usually just before I went to sleep, might be
19-22, or 21-24 and 3 hours in the morning when I woke up and continued for ~3
hours and then left for lectures.

I started doing this because I realized that I am no longer capable of pulling
all-nighters. And it worked surprisingly well :-)

------
amelius
> Making money on the App Store is really tough, and people don’t care how
> many hours I spend on my apps. They only care if it is useful or not. This
> is a completely result oriented world, but personally, I like it.

I would guess that, if the OP had a competitor, then the OP would be easily
forced out of the market if that competitor worked 4 hours a day :)

~~~
Drdrdrq
Not really, that's exactly the point. OP would be forced out of the market if
that competitor produced better results. Not the same thing.

------
Shorrock
One size certainly does not fit all, however, my one take away is that this is
huge benefit to paying close attention to what works best for you and
optimizing your life around that. When you focus on productivity and happiness
(often the 2 are linked) ignoring, when possible, schedules dictated upon you
your quality of life will improve.

------
TensionBuoy
3 hours is not enough time to get anything done. I'm self employed. I go 12
hours straight before I realize I should probably eat something. I love what
I'm doing so I'm drawn to it all day, every day. At the end of the day I've
hardly made a dent in my project though. 3 hours is just getting warmed up.

~~~
maxxxxx
Do you do this every day? I also used to go 12 hours straight but then there
were days I would take off and not do anything. I am not capable of going 12
hours hard every day.

------
1123581321
I read an essay several years ago that suggested working three focused hours a
day. But, it suggested slowly increasing the hours worked while keeping the
same level of focus, and doing restorative activities in the remaining time.
The idea was that this would "triple" productivity.

------
shanwang
I'm about to quit my day job and work on my own projects. I planed to maintain
a 9-6 working style by going to a library with wifi. Reading this post I'm now
thinking maybe I can experiment with different work routines and see which one
is more productive for me.

------
mrottenkolber
What about work 11 hours a week and be happy? Works for me, and I am a
freelancer.

Edit: I usually do three blocks of three hours each and one two hour block
each week. I find three hours perfect to tackle a problem, and a good chunk to
be able to reflect upon afterwards.

------
abledon
This is so true of people who give 100% every moment they work, but can't work
long hours without feeling drained. compared to someone who goes at 50% and
can manage the 40hr/work-week, I wish this method would become more
recognized.

------
JoeAltmaier
"Work for only 3 hours a day, but every day".

'everyday' is an adjective

------
jamesjyu
Work hard. Not too much. Focus on what's important.

------
xg15
So no going out for drinks where you might have a hangover the next day?

~~~
Kenji
If you really want alcohol, why waste the next day with hangover when you can
just drink one or two drinks and be well?

~~~
mattmanser
Getting drunk is part of the point. There's no gain in pretending it's not.

~~~
nommm-nommm
I really like drinking but I hate being drunk. I am happy with a buzz but if I
drink more after that is unpleasant to me.

My apologies to Xg15 for down voting him or her. It was accidental, my finger
slipped and there's no "undo" button that I know of.

~~~
xg15
No offense taken - I didn't notice to be honest.

------
logicallee
Historically, working 24 hours a day (I include sleep because after a certain
number of hours you even dream of code or your business) for 1 year typically
accomplishes more than working 3 hours per day for 8 years. Or 1.5 hours per
day for 16 years. There is just some kind of economy of scale.

\---------

EDIT: I got downvoted. Come up with whatever standard of productivity you want
(ANY standard that you want) and adduce a single human who in 16 years times
90 minutes per day accomplished more than I can find a counter-example of
someone doing in the same field in 1 year. 1 year of 24 hours a day strictly
dominates 16 years of 90 minutes per day, and you cannot find a single
counterexample in any field from any era of humanity. Go ahead and try.

oh and by the way, in 1905 Einstein published 1 paper on the Photoelectric
effect, for which he won his only nobel prize, 1 paper on Brownian motion
which convinced the only leading anti-atomic theorist of the existence of
atoms, 1 paper on a little subject that "reconciles Maxwell's equations for
electricity and magnetism with the laws of mechanics by introducing major
changes to mechanics close to the speed of light. This later became known as
Einstein's special theory of relativity" and 1 paper on Mass–energy
equivalence, which might have remained obscure if he hadn't worked it into a
catchy little ditty referring to an "mc". You might have heard of it? E =
mc^2? Well a hundred and ten years later all the physicistis are still laying
their beats on top.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annus_Mirabilis_papers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annus_Mirabilis_papers)

Your turn. Point to someone who did as much in 16 years by working just 90
minutes per day.

Closer to our own field, Instagram was sold for $1 billion about a year after
its founding date, to Facebook. Point out anyone who built $1 billion in value
over 16 years working just 90 minutes per day.

~~~
onion2k
_There is just some kind of economy of scale._

I feel the opposite is true. Working longer hours actually reduces my level of
productivity because at some point I start making mistakes that take time to
undo. For me that's only about 6 hours of coding; if I work 12 hours then half
of my time is spent undoing mistakes or finding better solutions, so I'm less
productive than if I'd only written code for 6 hours in the first place. I
definitely don't find that I'm more productive if I just put in more time ad
infinitum.

~~~
rorykoehler
6 hours is my sweet spot too.

