
Uber Sales Reach $7.5B in 2017 - tmh79
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-13/uber-sales-reach-7-5-billion-in-2017-despite-persistent-turmoil
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parasubvert
I find a lot of naysayers miss the point of Uber: the experience really is
better. UberX’s discount isn’t why I use it. It’s because the app is without
peer. I can choose the car with the features I want. I have a company watching
me and my driver to ensure that the experience is good for both of us, unlike
taxis which have abysmal customer service and consumer (or driver!) protection
in most cities.

I’d happily pay more for it (and usually go for select or black when I can). I
tip where I can. I don’t like Uber’s bro culture and wish Lyft would get
better and broader coverage. But Uber is on to something big.

UberEATS I can take or leave as others have comparable experiences (Skip the
Dishes, DoorDash, etc).

~~~
untog
> It’s because the app is without peer.

Eh. Lyft provides essentially the same feature set. Here in NYC we also have
Juno and Gett. The point is not that Uber is bad, but that it's utterly
replaceable. The one plus they do have is their presence in so many cities
around the world, and while that is a benefit, I'm not convinced it's enough -
I don't think _that_ many people travel _that_ often that it can keep the
company competitive.

~~~
mastazi
> [...] presence in so many cities around the world, and while that is a
> benefit, I'm not convinced it's enough

It's enough in all those markets/countries where there is no viable
alternative to Uber. Here in Australia the main competitor would be GoCatch
but, while it's a very good app for calling taxis, the "private car /
ridesharing" service is still in its infancy.

Another field where Uber has no competitors thanks to its international
presence is international travellers: when overseas, most people are obviously
going to use Uber since it's a huge hassle to do your research and then sign
up to local alternatives every time you travel.

~~~
ghaff
>most people are obviously going to use Uber since it's a huge hassle to do
your research and then sign up to local alternatives every time you travel.

Or we just use a taxi in the many cities where there is decent taxi service. I
travel to London a fair bit and rarely bother with using Uber there.

~~~
eric_h
That works when you speak the local language. When you do not, using a local
taxi can be a much more difficult experience, and in many places you are
likely to be over charged.

In Kiev, for example, very few of the taxi drivers speak English, and I don't
speak Russian. Uber is both extremely easy to use there, there is no issue
with the language barrier, and it is absurdly cheap (from my US perspective).

~~~
ghaff
I guess. Not that I use Uber/Lyft much, but in the US I've had a number of
times when the driver ends up calling me because their GPS has ended up taking
them to the wrong side of the hotel or whatever. My experience hasn't really
been the smartphone making all verbal communication unnecessary.

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mevile
Anecdotally I have found Lyft's tech to just be abysmal. Lyft line for example
instructed the driver on a packed freeway we've spent what felt like a good 30
minutes slogging through just before the last exit over a bridge to go ahead
and turn around and pick up another passenger just so we can go through all
that traffic again. I've heard drivers mention similar problems to me too. I
didn't want to use Uber, but I can't really put up with Lyft's problems.

I don't know and don't claim to say that this explains Uber's success, but it
explains why I use Uber despite its notoriety.

~~~
nemothekid
Anecdotal, I also use Lyft, a lot, to the point where I'm probably wasting a
lot of money (Mint says I spent $400+ last month). My usage upticked over the
last month as I started commuting to the south bay from the city (so I would
line to Caltrain).

Line just seems abysmal during peak hours, where I actually reinstalled Uber
just to commute. Multiple times last month, when leaving Caltrain to go home,
the Lyft would leave the awful gridlock that happens around 4th street, then a
passenger would be added, and the driver would have to turn around to pick up
that person at Caltrain and we would all have to sit through traffic again.
One of those rides took 30 minutes for what is normally an 11 minute line
ride. In the morning, Line tends to choose the strangest drivers (some that
are 15 minutes away) which always leads to me guessing which train I'll be
able to catch.

When I first switch to Uber (for my commutes), the most surprising thing is
they recognized my street is one-way and had the driver pick me up on the
adjacent street. Lyft drivers are almost always routed all the way around the
block.

I will continue using Lyft when I can (their support team has been really
good, and I tend to prefer Lyft drivers), but I was a bit surprised by the
small differences in routing. It really challenges my thoughts on
Uber/Lyft/XYZ being truly interchangeable.

~~~
misun78
Prefer Lyft drivers? Almost every Lyft driver also drives for Uber.

~~~
fastball
Stats? From my experience in Austin, Lyft drivers have mostly been "I work
from my car starting a business / I drive around in my car for other reasons
and I do Lyft literally on the side (as in: I was already driving this way, or
similar)"

Driving for Uber may be a second/additional job for many people, but I have
never had an Uber driver seem like it was a super casual thing they do for a
few extra bucks.

~~~
misun78
Stats - I’m an Uber employee who can’t disclose much more than the general
statement from above :)

There is almost no reason for a Lyft driver to also not do Uber for maximum
earnings potential. Uber on the other hand has enough volume that drivers can
operate at a max efficiency without the hassle of managing and switching
statuses across multiple apps.

~~~
fastball
You're right, but I guess I'm comparing all of the different places where I've
used the two, including many where I've only used Uber. For instance in London
and other European cities, Uber drivers seem to almost all drive for Uber
nearly full-time.

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finkin1
And a 4.5B loss, which seems insane to me.

It's interesting that UberEats reached 4B gross revenue run-rate, which
according to the article means food delivery is 10% of their business. Seems
like that's pretty significant given how recent UberEats is and how many
competitors they have in the space. Why is UberEats better than Grubhub, for
example?

~~~
williamscales
UberEats works very well. It's a simple UI and has many restaurants. The food
comes quickly and you can see the location of the drive. When I've had issues,
the customer support has been good.

I haven't used GrubHub myself, but my experience with DoorDash has been
considerably rockier than with UberEats. They get the order wrong often or
fail to show up and you can't always order from the restaurant for immediate
delivery.

~~~
mrep
> UberEats works very well. It's a simple UI and has many restaurants. The
> food comes quickly and you can see the location of the drive. When I've had
> issues, the customer support has been good.

100% yes to all of these and I've ordered uber eats just shy of 100 times now.
The customer support has been especially surprising as a few of orders have
mixed with other people's a few times (so i got a completely different order)
and I got too keep the food and got my money back.

Granted, when they first started where I live, ALL delivery fees were waived
so I could order a 5 dollar meal with no delivery fee, then they changed it to
$30+ orders were free delivery, and now all orders have fees based on distance
+ surcharge so I don't order as much as I used too.

I still use uber eats every once in a while as it is generally cheaper than
other delivery services since tips are not expected and the cheapest delivery
fees are currently 2.50$

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forkLding
I have a strong feeling that Uber will survive time, simply because of the
differences in their cost-of-acquisition and user lifetime value; Uber
attracted me through their ~$40 cost of acquisition by paying both me and the
referrer in credits which is small when you compare and see myself spending
more than that amount in a year and definitely more as I move through life. I
can also see them subtly increasing prices until they finally dominate
transportation and ride-sharing.

Expending huge amounts of money to grow is actually normal, Microsoft had
billion dollar losses trying to market their Microsoft Surface in an Apple-
saturated market and are currently now profiting from their heavy losses in
the past; you can't really see the past until you're in the future.

------
nawgszy
Not really a surprise. Lyft is their only real competition in the States, I
don't have any idea about the global state of things but I imagine they are
likewise entrenched with their first mover's advantage.

The real question, I thought, is: are losses per sale decreasing? If not, and
if we need to see a significant price increase per ride before things can get
better, I sort of wonder if the only thing the taxi industry needed to do to
prevent this all from happening was develop a ride-hailing app which tracked
your car and gave you the price ahead of time.

~~~
rankam
Taxi apps like these are prevalent in Europe and have been around for 5-7
years. MyTaxi/Hailo is owned by Daimler and is Europe's largest taxi app. Gett
Taxi is a large player - Volkswagen invested $300 million in them in 2016.
However, the taxi industry is regulated and can't set artificially low prices
like Uber does.

~~~
dingo_bat
Nice regulations! They set a minimum price instead of maximum. Pretty clear
the regulation was supposed to protect the industry not the consumers. Such
regulations are the reason uber exists.

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T2_t2
Double revenue, 1.5X costs. Uber is well on track.

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ameyamk
$4 billion food delivery business! Thats pretty neat. Uber is showing signs
that they can succeed in general logistic space also besides just taxi
business.

~~~
abvdasker
Yeah it'll be interesting to see what happens with their new Freight business.
That has the potential to be a real disruptor as I don't think any other tech
companies have tried to tackle that space.

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Animats
_" Sales were $7.5 billion. But the company also posted a substantial loss of
$4.5 billion. There are few historical precedents for the scale of its loss."_

Somehow the part about the record loss disappeared from the title.

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deevolution
All that turmoil has likely increased their mindshare. Basically they just
benefited from free marketing... althought not without some consequences.

~~~
deevolution
Evidently one of those consequences was not lower revenue.

Edit: replaced profit with revenue. Uber is not currently profitable.lol.

~~~
protopeer
you mean revenue?

~~~
wuliwong
I think there profits are less negative. :)

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dmaschek
It's pretty easy to have huge sales if what you're doing is essentially
selling one dollar for 50 cents.

~~~
freyir
Yeah, but they only lost $1.1B last quarter. Things are looking brighter.

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BugsJustFindMe
Uber Pool for 2 people across town frequently costs a bit less than the bus
here, which means that they're still buying passengers, which means that
"sales" is not a super honest metric. The question becomes how much will sales
be hurt when they stop subsidizing. The cost doesn't have to go up by much to
lose many current pool customers.

~~~
msoad
Dont underestimate how inefficient public transportation is

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petraeus
The moment uber stops subsidizing their rides a million competitors will come
out of the woodwork with a comparable app. its not the app thats unbeatable
its their vc money, you cannot have 10 multi-billion dollar unicorn taxi
providing companies existing at once.

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scarface74
So how is that considered a success when they are still subsidizing rides and
losing money. No one knows if Uber has a successful business model until they
can start operating at a profit.

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vondur
I could run a money losing company so long as investors keep dumping money on
my doorstep.

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Myrmornis
I prefer Uber because it doesn't hassle me for tips. Tips make compensation
opaque, and a large part of the beauty of uber/lyft/etc for me anyway is not
to have to think about the payment (after checking that the fare is
reasonable).

A small part of me probably prefers Uber also because the anti-Uber rhetoric
in the press and "progressive" social media contacts is largely substance-
less.

