
FreeBSD turns 21 - tachion
https://www.freebsd.org/news/newsflash.html#event20141102:01
======
tachion
For all those not familiar with it, FreeBSD[1] is a great Linux alternative,
being rock solid, free and open operating system delivering some of the
coolest new technologies out there, including out of the box support for ZFS
filesystem, awesome debugging tool DTrace, hot new security layer in form of
Capsicum, fresh and legacy free hypervisor Bhyve, one of the best
documentation amongst any open source projects and much, much more!

And now it can get legally drunk in every country on the Earth, where drinking
is legal ;)

Be nice and send it a birthday gift![2]

[1] [https://www.FreeBSD.org/](https://www.FreeBSD.org/)

[2]
[https://www.freebsdfoundation.org/donate/](https://www.freebsdfoundation.org/donate/)

~~~
hiphopyo
That's the thing -- it's a testbed for a lot of experimental, some would even
say unnecessary, technologies.

Just like Linux taught me to appreciate FreeBSD, FreeBSD taught me to
appreciate OpenBSD. OpenBSD -- the world's simplest and most secure Unix-like
OS. Creator of the world's most used SSH implementation OpenSSH, the world's
most elegant firewall PF, the world's most elegant mail server OpenSMTPD, and
the OpenSSL rewrite LibreSSL. OpenBSD -- the cleanest kernel, the cleanest
userland and the cleanest configuration syntax.

Ref. [http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-
misc&m=139321387226212](http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=139321387226212)

[http://itwire.com/business-it-news/open-
source/62641-crypto-...](http://itwire.com/business-it-news/open-
source/62641-crypto-freebsd-playing-catch-up-says-de-raadt)

~~~
vezzy-fnord
_it 's a testbed for a lot of experimental, some would even say unnecessary,
technologies._

Nope, that's DragonFly BSD. FreeBSD is far more conservative in comparison,
occasionally integrating some more daring idea. In contrast, NetBSD used to
silently innovate all the time (and I think still do, what with rump kernels)
and even OpenBSD, despite being rather vanilla on the outside, is internally
innovative in the area of security.

~~~
justincormack
I think it varies. FreeBSD does have a lot of stuff, like netmap, capsicum,
that is quite experimental in some sense, although capsicum is a great design.
NetBSD has rump kernel, but thats not much code, it is just(!) portability
done right, some build fixes and a little code.

------
johngd
Forever grateful to FreeBSD as it was my first non-windows/mac distro that had
installed on one of my own machines. I snagged a copy of FreeBSD 4 that was
bundled in a book that they sold at BestBuy. I spent all of Christmas
installing it on a old Packard Bell Pentium 1, several times if I recall
correctly (disk partitioning was rough for a newbie). That one day set my path
for the next ~15 years

------
teekert
I was at Andrew Tanenbaum's goodbye Lecture where we once again were reminded
of the stupid move by AT&T of suing BSD, which stalled the project for 3 years
allowing Linux to flourish. Oh how different the landscape could have been.

~~~
cowmix
The lawsuit cut both ways. Back at the time when I was starting my ISP we used
BSDi _because_ they were being used by AT&T. However Linus, even back then,
started to gain an edge over the BSD(s) despite having a less mature
filesystem and TCP stack for these reason:

1) Almost since day one Linux was a better desktop OS (even back in 1992). 2)
This might seem counter intuitive but Linus focused on source compatibility.
It was much easier to take any source package and type 'make install' and off
you went whereas in the BSDs, there was a 10% more chance of thing not working
right. 3) Devices: Linux expanded device compatibility much faster than the
BSDs.

~~~
digi_owl
Yep. Even today the Torvalds mantra is "do not break user space". If a patch
of yours do, you will be at the receiving end of one of his infamous rants. At
least if you happen to be high up in the patch chain and should know better.

just wish certain other Linux related projects would take that mantra to
heart.

Btw, it is a similar mantra that has carried Microsoft all these years.
Recently discovered that some software a relative of mine has been enjoying
dated back to Windows 95. And it only broke now because the new computer was
running 64-bit Windows 8.

------
Lammy
FreeBSD won me over about 12 years ago when I was looking for a stable OS for
a small dynamic DNS home server. OpenBSD kernel panicked on my AMD K6-2
machine, and I'd just been screwed by a Mandrake Linux upgrade that left my
system unusable, so I installed FreeBSD 4.7 and slogged through a month of
"help, this isn't Linux".

It's impressive how both the feature set and community have grown since then
and hard to imagine the OS now giant-locked or without ULE, ZFS, DTrace, PF,
and a host of other things both homegrown and imported. I'm particularly
excited to see BHyVe mature so there is a native VM option besides VirtualBox
when I need more than a Jail.

FreeBSD still struggles in some scenarios, especially desktop use and
availability of BSD VPS hosting that would let people cheaply experiment with
the OS like they can with Linux on Linode or DigitalOcean. I have a FreeBSD
desktop and a VPS running in prgmr.com's Xen environment, but both took quite
a bit of effort to set up:

[https://cooltrainer.org/a-freebsd-desktop-
howto/](https://cooltrainer.org/a-freebsd-desktop-howto/)

[http://wiki.prgmr.com/mediawiki/index.php/FreeBSD_as_a_DomU](http://wiki.prgmr.com/mediawiki/index.php/FreeBSD_as_a_DomU)

Happy birthday, FreeBSD!

~~~
strmpnk
Most people don't seem to be aware that there is a well supported FreeBSD
image supported for EC2 these days:

[https://aws.amazon.com/marketplace/pp/B00KSS55FY?sr=0-5&qid=...](https://aws.amazon.com/marketplace/pp/B00KSS55FY?sr=0-5&qid=1402079030897)

GCE can also run FreeBSD fine if you don't mind messing with KVM images
yourself (a quick search should show some threads on how to get started). Many
other providers would probably maintain support for this as well if more
people spoke about their interests. It's not hard to support on KVM based
systems so it's a matter of winning new customers not technical limitations.

Of course, it's worth pointing out that it's also easy (and cheap!) to rent
hardware at places like Softlayer and Rackspace. Both of these provide support
for FreeBSD on the metal. You could then run Jails (very mature and easy to
use) or Bhyve (less mature but the guest support is growing at a reasonable
pace) on top of this if you need to partition resources.

EDIT:

I should also note that I saw this company recently. It's a nice and cheap way
to get a FreeBSD setup: [https://www.vultr.com](https://www.vultr.com)

~~~
Lammy
I'm familiar with the AWS images but at the time I was looking for hosting
Amazon charged more for running HVM than for PV images. I can't find anything
about that now on their instance types page, so maybe it's no longer an issue.

~~~
cperciva
_Amazon charged more for running HVM than for PV images_

The issue was that older instance types (now known as "Previous Generation
instances") didn't support HVM for "unix" images, so FreeBSD had to pretend to
be Windows -- which meant that you had to pay for a Windows license you
weren't using.

All of the instance types introduced since 2010 have supported HVM "unix"
instances, and as of a few months ago all of the older instance types have
been officially deprecated.

------
malkia
PS4 runs on FreeBSD:

[http://www.scei.co.jp/ps4-license/](http://www.scei.co.jp/ps4-license/) (and
many other oss)

[http://www.scei.co.jp/ps4-license/freebsd_kernel.html](http://www.scei.co.jp/ps4-license/freebsd_kernel.html)

[http://www.scei.co.jp/ps4-license/freebsd_fsck.html](http://www.scei.co.jp/ps4-license/freebsd_fsck.html)

~~~
pjmlp
And so far as I am aware, Sony didn't gave any code back.

~~~
tedks
Why should they? If the FreeBSD project wanted code to be given back, they
would have used the GPL. It's Sony's right as a corporate person to take BSD-
licensed code and profit from it without any sort of "giving back."

------
danieldk
Let's not forget BSDs long-lasting influence. OS X uses a lot of code from
Free/Net/OpenBSD. Many commercial operating systems initially based their
TCP/IP stack on BSD.

Cheers FreeBSD! I happy remember buying the 2.1.5 CD set from Walnut Creek and
tinkering for weeks.

~~~
justincormack
Android has a fair amount of BSD code, as it has no GPL code in userspace, eg
NetBSD is upstream for much of bionic libc.

------
aperture
Wow! I just realized FreeBSD is about as old as I am! FreeBSD is a great
system, and going from Windows to Ubuntu to FreeBSD was a fun transition, one
I recommend for anybody willing to learn more about computers.

Recently a new book came out too for FreeBSD, I'll see if I can post it here
without some sort of referral link:
[http://www.amazon.com/dp/0321968972/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl...](http://www.amazon.com/dp/0321968972/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8)

I managed to get one of my professors to purchase the book as well, and it was
a nice piece of material for Intro to Operating Systems.

~~~
profquail
I saw a promotion for _Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD Operating
System, 2nd. ed_ this morning, in case anyone is considering purchasing the
book. If you buy it direct from the publisher[1], there is a coupon code [2]
for 35% off -- bringing the price down to a very reasonable $36.

[1] [http://www.informit.com/store/design-and-implementation-
of-t...](http://www.informit.com/store/design-and-implementation-of-the-
freebsd-operating-9780321968975)

[2]
[https://twitter.com/MeetBSDCA/status/528659641106837504](https://twitter.com/MeetBSDCA/status/528659641106837504)

------
ausjke
Used freebsd, netbsd and openbsd in the past. FreeBSD for desktop, netbsd for
embedded and openbsd for firewall.

I'm happy to see more headlines on BSDs these days, and I can't stop thinking
it has something to do with systemd.

~~~
diltonm
I'm on Ubuntu 14.04 and had to stop to check if systemd is installed, it is.
Ubuntu operates the same for me today as 12 did. I don't have any issues with
it. I wrote a Java system service the other day and installed it with the
usual update-rc.d command like I've done in 12 and it runs fine so for me
systemd has nothing to do with my choice to stay with Linux, Ubuntu
specifically. It certainly wouldn't drive me away, I wasn't aware it was even
there. Like Ubuntu, and Linux overall...it just works (apparently).

~~~
nisa
If you run Ubuntu 14.04 you don't run systemd. You have a process called
systemd-shim that is some kind of compatability glue for software that
requires systemd.

[http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/systemd-
shim](http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/systemd-shim)

If you want to try a real systemd system use a recent Fedora or Arch release.

------
profquail
I keep hoping Travis-CI will add support for FreeBSD, but it seems there's
some blocking issue due their use of OpenVZ as a containerization layer:
[https://github.com/travis-ci/travis-
ci/issues/1818](https://github.com/travis-ci/travis-ci/issues/1818)

Does anyone know if there's been more progress on this? It'd really be a boon
to FreeBSD (and BSDs in general) if travis-ci supported it, since it'd make it
easier for devs to write portable code (between Mac/Linux/BSD) from the get-
go.

------
jeffdavis
Linux has had vastly more resources poured into it just for the kernel than
all of FreeBSD (and the other BSDs as well).

Yet FreeBSD is still a nice operating system and kernel.

Legitimate question: where have all those resource gone into Linux? What have
we gotten out of it that's not in BSD?

~~~
mburns
Hardware support in the form of many, many drivers.

~~~
shanth
Absolutely. I'm still looking for a BCM43142 driver :(

------
darka
Happy birthday, FreeBSD! You were one of the many operating systems I
experimented with back in my teenage years, along with countless Linux
distributions. The popularity has waned [1] but good to know it is still
active :)

[1]
[http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=%2Fm%2F02ydx&cmpt=q](http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=%2Fm%2F02ydx&cmpt=q)

~~~
axaxs
I'm not sure that's a good indicator. Linux shows a similar decline (try it
yourself). I'd wager it's more a result of the rise of the general population
coming online, including smartphones. Us geeks searches became miniscule in
comparison. That's my theory, at least, and I'm sticking to it :)

------
jarcane
FreeBSD is the OS I switched to after one Linux distro after another refused
to run properly on my hardware. I don't boot it often, but if I want to do
some good old fashioned Unix hacking, it's my first choice from here on out.

------
diltonm
For those commentators deriding Linux attempting to make FreeBSD sound better;
you're doing your chosen OS a disservice. Instead, you should highlight why
you like your OS and not try to denigrate Linux.

~~~
byuu
> you should highlight why you like your OS

I'd be happy to! ZFS, DTrace, pf, Bhyve, Capsicum, Jails, GEOM/geli, the
userland is part of the base system, and the core team is elected.

For the buzzwords: I like that my out-of-box install has AES-256 whole-disk
encryption, software mirroring (that doesn't require identical disks) and
snapshots; I really love pf for managing traffic and port remapping on my
server; Jails are great added security for services exposed to the internet.

Through and through, I just like the design more in nearly all cases. rc.d
works great for my needs, I like devd, I agree with FreeBSD's philosophy
difference on the behavior of /dev/random, I like the more laid back
licensing, etc.

And to flip things around ... I think Linux does a massively better job at
out-of-the-box simplicity in setting up and running a desktop environment. The
BSDs are server-oriented and that really shows.

~~~
X-Istence
I don't think that is so bad, use each one for their respective strengths.

Linux for the desktop, FreeBSD on the server.

------
StevePerkins
A decade ago, running FreeBSD on my main PC for a few years taught me half of
what I now know about UNIX.

Over time, I grew tired of having my machine in a near-constant state of
compiling code (updates are built from source rather than through APT or RPM
repos). So I drifted away and ended up with Ubuntu, where I wouldn't have to
tinker with the OS so much. However, I miss the amazing documentation that
came with FreeBSD, and the things that it encouraged me to learn along the
way.

~~~
jff
I finally started experimenting with the pkgng stuff and it seems pretty good.
I too have been annoyed by the constant compilation, so I've been pleased that
I'm getting along with the occasional "pkg upgrade", which will update all my
packages, even the ones built from the ports tree. If you have custom compile
options in some of your packages, you can simply lock them and pkg will leave
them alone; you can then use portmaster or whatever you prefer to re-compile
them yourself.

------
hhw
One thing to note about FreeBSD is the new pkg-ng package management system is
a big step forward in terms of usability vs the old pkg_ commands. It does not
lose to Debian's apt in any way when it comes to binary packages, and
FreeBSD's ports system are still second to none when it comes to source based
packages. I had been avoiding making the switch, having been used to using
portupgrade since 2001, but as soon as portupgrade began supporting pkg-ng I
started using it, and have found it a pleasure to use. I now do a pkg upgrade
first, to pull all available binary packages from the official repositories,
before doing my own upgrades from ports using portupgrade.

------
riffraff
something like ten years ago I did my very small part as a member of the
FreeeBSD Italian Documentation Project, and translated parts of the handbook
and other docs (the VM design thing[1] was super interesting!).

The FreeBSD Handbook[0] was the single best thing about the OS, IMO: a
cohesive, up to date reference to about everything in the system.

Cheers, live long and prosper!

[0]
[https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/](https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/)
[1] [https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/vm-
design/article.ht...](https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/vm-
design/article.html)

------
danbee
I <3 FreeBSD! I run it on my HP Micro Server. Picked it for ZFS support and
solid networking.

------
tete
I like how they consider birth as "construction ready".

Oh and a side note. Being based off the original BSD its roots go back to 1977
and even earlier.

[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Unix_his...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Unix_history-
simple.svg)

------
EGreg
For someone looking to run a social network, and valuing rock solid
reliability and efficiency, what would be the tradeoffs between, say:

CentOS Linux

Debian Linux

FreeBSD

~~~
hhw
FreeBSD is or at least was capable of higher concurrent connections per
server, which is presumably why Whatsapp uses it. FreeBSD also has a
reputation for performing more consistently and being more responsive under
duress. These might be important attributes for a social network.

When comparing between CentOS and Debian, I'd say Debian's apt system is
superior to the RedHat family's rpm system, both in terms of usability and
when building your own packages. If you plan to run commercial software
however, most are made for use on RedHat although that's starting to change
with Ubuntu also being a target nowadays. So in general, I'd say go CentOS for
commercial software, or Debian for open source software.

------
manish_gill
Can someone who has used them both tell me what are the advantages of FreeBSD
over something like OS X (desktop use)? I was turned off from linux after
trying out several distress that kept melting down due to one issue or
another. OS X has none of those issues and I get all the benefits of a unix
system. How will FreeBSD be different if I try it out?

Thanks.

------
ekn
Happy Birthday, FreeBSD!

------
damm
Damn I was running FreeBSD when Bill Clinton was getting over getting
impeached. I feel /OLD/

------
amelius
FreeBSD has reached the legal drinking age! Cheers!

I just hope that they don't change their license model into just "free as in
beer" :)

And I hope they one day implement all kernel functions that Linux supports, so
that switching from Linux to FreeBSD becomes less painful.

~~~
tachion
There's already Linux compability layer in FreeBSD's kernel for years now,
allowing you using linux binaries on FreeBSD. Anything in particular you'd be
missing when migrating to FreeBSD?

~~~
bcantrill
For whatever it's worth, we in the illumos community have been working on a
complete Linux compatibility layer -- including 64-bit.[1][2] Our Linux
emulation is relatively closely intertwined with some illumos abstractions
like zones, but it would be great if the FreeBSD folks could make use of it --
we have a long history of technology exchange with FreeBSD, and we think it's
made both systems better. Happy birthday, FreeBSD -- from your illumos
cousins!

[1] [http://www.slideshare.net/bcantrill/illumos-
lx](http://www.slideshare.net/bcantrill/illumos-lx)

[2]
[https://twitter.com/sjorge/status/527937813568708608](https://twitter.com/sjorge/status/527937813568708608)

~~~
justincormack
Cool looks like its going really well.

What is the license on this code?

------
joshcanhelp
How coincidental ... working on a FreeNAS home server this morning!

~~~
gonzo
How coincidental, there is a developer/vendor summit that starts tomorrow.
(MeetBSD yesterday and today.)

------
kleiba
One of the biggest disadvantages Linux has over Windows is the lack of driver
support from hardware manufactures. Is the situation with FreeBSD comparable,
or better, or worse?

~~~
diltonm
I have zero issues with Linux drivers? If anything I've had a better
experience with Linux drivers than Windows. I could go through a laundry list
of devices I buy, plug in and they just work on Linux (Ubuntu). My experience
wasn't that way back when I ran Windows more. I'd buy a new printer and
couldn't use it until I'd ran the installation software. On Linux just plug
and play. Same with my headsets, Bluetooth, phones, etc. etc.

~~~
quacker
_On Linux just plug and play._

Really? Most common peripherals, like mice, keyboards, usb drives, etc, just
plug and play (as they do in Windows). But I tried installing a (4 year old?)
multi-function printer under Ubuntu 14.04 a few weeks ago and was never able
to get the scanner to work, despite Brother providing Linux drivers. Some co-
workers and I haven't had great experiences with webcams under Linux. Touchpad
support is there, but whether gestures and multi-touch work is another matter.
Overall, Linux drivers are a far cry from plug and play in my experience, and
I really don't care if I have to run an installer once as long as it ends up
working.

~~~
hga
They also _break_. I have a USB sound dongle that works fine with the Debian
lenny and wheezy kernels, but not squeeze (that's versions 5 and 7, but not 6,
and I tried another chipset's as well). My Wacom tablet stopped working with
wheezy.

I've read that driver breakage is for many the #1 problem with Linux, even for
enterprise/server setups. I'm starting to view RHEL in a new light after
running Debian for a long time.

~~~
DanBC
I can provide plenty of anecdote for broken Windows drivers.

One example where moving from Windows Vista to Windows 7 will update Intel on
board graphics card drivers, thus killing Minecraft. Fix is to upgrade
graphics card; or to run old versions of Minecraft; or to install Linux and
run latest version of Minecraft.

[https://bugs.mojang.com/browse/MC-14051](https://bugs.mojang.com/browse/MC-14051)

~~~
hga
The problem I personally have had here is that Debian support cycles are _way_
too short, 1 year past the bi-annual release of the new version. Even the
squeeze LTS 1 year additional support experiment is too short. Hence my new
appreciation of RHEL.

With Windows there's a very good chance you can continue using an old version
for a _long_ time. I'm still supporting my mother using XP through two sets of
hardware (although that'll end soon). (In)Famously, many people skipped Vista
and are now skipping Widows 8, and I gather not suffering all that much.

------
jestinjoy1
I am from Debian, looking to test Unix. The demands/needs

1\. Should be Free as Linux 2\. For use in Desktop 3\. Needs UI 4\. Mainly for
Development

Which BSD is best fit for me?

~~~
elektronjunge
PC-BSD is probably your best bet. Its a distro of FreeBSD with tools to make
it easier to use as a desktop. If you don't mind wading through config files
then any of the big 4 (FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, DragonFlyBSD) should be good
for you. I recommend FreeBSD or maybe OpenBSD. NetBSD will run everywhere but
isn't the best for standard hardware. DragonFly is too experimental. FreeBSD
is the easiest to setup and has the most hardware/package support. OpenBSD is
nearly as good on this front but you may have more difficulty.

------
whyenot
Has Netcraft confirmed it?

\--

I first installed FreeBSD in 1997. You had to send away for the CDs. There was
something so very cool about tinkering with the OS and then typing "make
world" at a shell prompt and watching as the OS rebuilt itself. FreeBSD used
Beastie[1] as their mascot, cuter than a penguin :)

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD_Daemon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD_Daemon)

------
pjmlp
Happy birthday. Where would FreeBSD be, if Linux didn't shown up in the
scene...

------
jstalin
Honest question -- is FreeBSD as easy to administer as Debian? I love apt-get.

~~~
emaste
FreeBSD has made great strides in the last couple of years with binary package
management tools. While there are a few things still to be done, in general if
you're familiar with Debian you'll be right at home.

Have a look at
[https://wiki.freebsd.org/PackageManagerRosettaStone](https://wiki.freebsd.org/PackageManagerRosettaStone)

------
gonzo
Yes, Jordan Hubbard stood up to announce same yesterday at MeetBSD.

------
pmoriarty
The worst thing about FreeBSD is the license.

~~~
dschuler
What don't you like about the BSD license?

GPL proponents generally argue that since code must be contributed back if a
program is distributed, it will cause the original source base to grow. On the
other hand, from what I gather Apple has used a lot of code from FreeBSD and
contributed a significant amount back to the project, which wouldn't have been
possible without a BSD-style license. Native ZFS support wouldn't have been
possible either, although Sun may have deliberately used a non-GPL compatible
license in that case. In any event, it's possible for a BSD-licensed code base
to grow as well.

The other pro-GPL argument is that it provides more freedom than a BSD
license, but I wonder if part of that is just a desire to prevent commercial
use of something others created and gave away for free. I'm not sure why that
bothers some GPL proponents. What's your take on that?

Personally I'm more inclined to contribute to a BSD-licensed project because I
can use parts of the code commercially. I don't see as many opportunities to
work on GPL-licensed code outside of a very niche job working for someone else
or doing it merely as a hobby.

