
Facebook is trying to register BOOK as trademark in Europe - jwildeboer
https://euipo.europa.eu/eSearch/#details/trademarks/018075708
======
Lio
As a cycling fan we've had a few of these sorts of shady cases where people
try to take a pre-existing term, trademark it and then threaten to sue people
legitimately using it.

Recent examples that have amused me include when Specialized Bicycle
Components released a bike named after the French town of Roubaix and its
famous bike race on cobbled roads... then proceeded to start threatening other
businesses also named after the town.

Or the company Peloton Interactive Inc which named its indoor spinning product
after the commonly used name for a group of cyclists "peloton"... and then
proceeded to start threatening bloggers for using the term to describe groups
of cyclists.

What's particularly funny about the peloton case is that some other outfit in
California is claiming a trademark on the term "spinning" to describe people
indoors using static spin bikes... and has proceeded to start threatening
small gyms for using that term.

Not sure if this is known as trademark trolling or not but I'm going to
quietly trademark that term and start sending out threatening letters just in
case.

~~~
shardinator
I think a ‘business process patent’ to protect your trademark trolling is the
way to go :)

~~~
carapace
[https://yogainternational.com/article/view/yogaglo-patent-
dr...](https://yogainternational.com/article/view/yogaglo-patent-dropped)

> Just over a year ago, Yoga International broke the news that YogaGlo had
> filed a patent application for their method of filming yoga classes. YI
> (among others) had recently received legal letters claiming that some of our
> early video content fell under the vague description given in the
> application. Though YI removed the content, we were troubled by the broader
> implications of the patent request, and the precedent that it set for
> contemporary yoga culture as a whole.

~~~
jgtrosh
Hello,

Your comment infringes on my patent regarding commenting style.

Please cease and desist.

------
paozac
Ten years ago I developed a local rock climbing database called Climbook.
Small website (~1000 users), no ads, no money involved. Facebook has spent the
last 3 years suing the owner, saying it's a trademark violation. The first two
rounds at court rejected facebook claims, now they're up for a third. Horrible
people.

~~~
eb0la
I Hope the court will dissmiss the case and condemn FB to pay the legal bills
(which is usual in my country for frivolous lawsuits).

~~~
SkyBelow
We need something more akin to gun laws.

Using the court is an extreme level of threat against the average person. So
someone who grossly misuses it should face similar penalties to someone
misusing a gun; losing the right to access the weapon. Facebook being given a
20 year ban on going after anyone in court would be a good start.

~~~
akiselev
So, 20 years of no contracts, property rights, or anything else that would
require a court to enforce?

~~~
SkyBelow
When a person loses access to a gun because they abuse it, do we concern
ourselves with how their diminished ability to protect themself?

~~~
akiselev
This isn't like taking a gun, this is like locking someone in a metal box
without food or water for 20 years.

~~~
SkyBelow
No one is being locked inside a box. The punishment doesn't even directly
impact a person, much less lock someone in a box.

------
jordigh
Whenever these trademark stories come up, everyone seems to get angry without
trying to bother to understand how trademarks work. They think that they're
like copyrights, that trademarks require originality or disallow all forms of
copying or something like that. I'm generally in favour of trademarks and I
don't think trademarking common words is as problematic as most people think.

When some word is trademarked, it doesn't mean nobody else is allowed to say
that word. I can write all day and all night about windows, apples, and lifts
without having to get lawyers in my face about it. And if the lawyers do come,
they might just request that I acknowledge the trademarks that I was using in
a way that could confuse consumers.

You don't need to defend everyone else's trademarks on your own. If you want
to generically say to "google" as a verb for any kind of search, go right
ahead. It's Google's job to defend that trademark, not yours, and I think they
may well lose that fight some day.

Trademarks allow common, dictionary words. There's no requirement for a
trademark to be original or creative. All it has to be is distinctive. I can
call software "Windows" and I can call a music producer "Apple". Generic words
are usually only disallowed as trademarks when they are used to generically
describe the thing under commerce. Facebook couldn't become a bookseller with
the trademark "book", for example. (Little known fact, though, "facebook"
itself _was_ a common word, referring to college-provided printed books with
fellow classmates' photos on them. I assume since no one is making those
anymore, or because Facebook never produced printed facebooks, they now can
elude any accusations of genericism.)

The test for trademark infringement is, are you using the trademark in a way
that a reasonable consumer could be confused that you're selling the same
thing as what someone else has under the same trademark? I don't think anyone
has been referring to all social networking sites as "books", thereby
invalidating the claim that Facebook has a valid trademark on "book".

Please, try to understand trademarks. One of my pet peeves with people who
lump them under "intellectual property" is that they think that trademarks are
somewhat similar to copyright or patents, but these are all very different
laws with different purposes, histories, and ways of being defended and
infringed. It doesn't all just mean "reproduction is disallowed".

~~~
theobeers
This is a type of HN comment that I see often and don't appreciate. Format:
"Your disapproval of [thing] can only be rooted in misunderstanding of
[technicalities]. [Flex re: said technicalities.]"

People who are familiar with how trademarks work can still be dubious of
Facebook's attempt to register BOOK. Is there a context in which I would
accept it as distinctive? Yes, of course: the name of a social networking
service. Is Facebook applying under such narrow terms? Not as far as I can
tell. And do I trust Facebook to be tasteful and show restraint in defending
this trademark, if it's granted? Not in a million years.

P.S. This is almost beside the point, but remember when Monster Cable sued a
bunch of small businesses—most famously a mom-and-pop mini-golf course—over
trademark infringement?[0] At the time, there was no shortage of pedants
chiming in to say that Monster didn't _need_ to be such a bully, that it
wasn't an issue of the trademark system per se. As if that were some
consolation!

[0]
[https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080515/1940111131/](https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080515/1940111131/)

~~~
mirimir
That may be technically correct. But Facebook trademarking "BOOK" is just
stupid, on its face.

Also, I note that "facebook" itself was a term that had been used by
universities for years to describe books of students' faces. As by Harvard,
which Facebook was riffing on.

Maybe it's OK to allow such trademarks. But there ought to be restrictions on
holders suing over currently typical usage.

~~~
mirimir
I mean, Amazon has far stronger standing to trademark "BOOK". And they'd be
foolish to not contest this.

------
Angostura
I suppose its worth noting that the company is trying to trademark them in
Class 9:

Class 9

Scientific, nautical, surveying, photographic, cinematographic, optical,
weighing, measuring, signalling, checking (supervision), life-saving and
teaching apparatus and instruments; apparatus and instruments for conducting,
switching, transforming, accumulating, regulating or controlling electricity;
apparatus for recording, transmission or reproduction of sound or images;
magnetic data carriers, recording discs; automatic vending machines and
mechanisms for coin-operated apparatus; cash registers, calculating machines,
data processing equipment and computers; fire-extinguishing apparatus.

Explanatory Note

This Class includes, in particular: – apparatus and instruments for scientific
research in laboratories; – apparatus and instruments for controlling ships,
such as apparatus and instruments, for measuring and for transmitting orders;
– the following electrical apparatus and instruments: (a) certain
electrothermic tools and apparatus, such as electric soldering irons, electric
flat irons which, if they were not electric, would belong to Class 8; (b)
apparatus and devices which, if not electrical, would be listed in various
classes, i.e., electrically heated clothing, cigar-lighters for automobiles; –
protractors; – punched card office machines; – amusement apparatus adapted for
use with television receivers only; – all computer programs and software
regardless of recording media or means of dissemination, that is, software
recorded on magnetic media or downloaded from a remote computer network. This
Class does not include, in particular: – the following electrical apparatus
and instruments: (a) electromechanical apparatus for the kitchen (grinders and
mixers for foodstuffs, fruit presses, electrical coffee mills, etc.), and
certain other apparatus and instruments driven by an electrical motor, all
coming under Class 7; (b) electric razors and clippers (hand instruments) (Cl.
8); (c) electric toothbrushes and combs (Cl. 21); (d) electrical apparatus for
space heating or for the heating of liquids, for cooking, ventilating, etc.
(Cl. 11); – clocks and watches and other chronometric instruments (Cl. 14); –
control clocks (Cl. 14).

~~~
DoctorOetker
they are going for the libra black book? liber = book?

~~~
tempodox
libra = balance/scales (for weighing). Also, it was a unit of weight in
ancient Rome.

“liber” is a masculine noun of the 2nd declension and thus has no
grammatically sensible connection to “libra” which is a feminine noun of the
1st declension.

------
jwildeboer
Facebook is trying to register BOOK as a word mark at the EUIPO (EU
Intellectual Property Office). The application is "under examination".

This means that EUIPO decided this application meets the minimum requirements
and has actually assigned an examiner to this instead of refusing the
application as it is IMHO too generic.

~~~
rndgermandude
An examiner would refuse the application as too generic... They don't really
have pre-examiner-examiners.

------
OliverJones
Hmm. Johannes Gutenberg is a little ahead of them, 580 years ahead of them to
be exact.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Gutenberg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Gutenberg)

They were called codices (plural of codex) back then, though.

I hope EU uses this application for a few laffs, then denies it.

What's next? Will they tried to register FRIEND and LIKE as wordmarks? How
about "FAKE NEWS"?

~~~
jordigh
Trademarks allow dictionary words. Windows, Apple, Uber... These are
dictionary words. Usually trademarks only disallow dictionary words if the
business being trademarked is too generically described by that word. For
example, a window cleaner called Windows or a produce seller called Apple;
that's not allowed.

The point of a trademark is to be distinctive. Unlike copyright, there's no
requirement for a trademark to be creative or original. I don't care to find
the details of what Facebook is trying to trademark, but it may well be the
case that "book" is a valid trademark.

~~~
sbfeibish
There are already 2 LIVE trademarks on book at TESS at (uspto.gov). One
bothers me at the company wants to ("Digital on-demand printing services of
books and other documents.") use it for a business involving book printing.

------
nhebb
Ohio State University recently tried to trademark the word "The". Thankfully
they were denied.

~~~
LanceH
Sometimes a denial is success, though. It means nobody else can swoop in,
trademark it and prevent you from using it.

~~~
nhebb
Good point. Someone on r/cfb made the same point, but the idea of marketing
"The" caps and shirts was still widely mocked, even by OSU diehards.

------
blackbrokkoli
Everybody here is dismissing the idea that business could be affected because
_book stores_ are in some kind of other category - what about tech and
software like

book2: language learning platform

Galaxy Book2: Samsung Product

book.com: Barnes & Nobles URL

duelingbook.com: Yu-Gi-Oh! Simulator

books24.in: Online Billing

book24.ru: Web book store

bookweb: American bestseller association

...

I understand the idea of trademarks and would not call it a bad one - it makes
sense that companies want to protect their name from direct copycats in the
same sector. It is fair that some companies protect deviations from their
actual name, too (Twitter, tweets. Microsoft Windows 10, Win10). But nobody
calls "Facebook" "book" and it's not like they have a palette of products with
the word in it, like iPhone/iPad/iOS or something. If somebody can explain how
they're possibly acting in good faith here please elaborate, but I hope they
get shut down, especially since it is well established that megacorps can just
keep bullying regarding trademarks and the like, even if they are clearly
wrong [0].

[0] [https://nissan.com/](https://nissan.com/)

------
szczepano
Trademark is evil same is with patent and copyright. It's just a corporate
tool to gain free money from work of people who passed away long time ago.
Those tools have one purpose - stop innovation and progress for years.

~~~
michaelmrose
One can imagine a world without patents or copyright still thriving. How can a
consumer marketplace exist where its impossible to discover which of 100
products are made by whom and which are likely to fall apart or kill you?

Trademark has a purpose.

~~~
szczepano
What purpose exactly ? Only corporate products are good and other are trying
to kill me ? That's your point ? McDonald sandwich will kill me or Apple
iPhone ? Maybe facebook can kill me ? Qualcomm processor ?

Or maybe you think sole people doesn't build cars/planes and don't use them in
public ?

Anyone can read about anything anywhere and yeah older people also talk about
products they use and how good they are. They actually talk about it more than
younger people.

I recommend you a great book by Cory Doctorow "Information doesn't want to be
free" you can buy or download it.

------
ksangeelee
I recently registered 'twitbook.uk' when the .uk TLD opened for general
registrations, with the intention of running a satirical social network that
would blatantly ask for personal information, allow open bidding to access the
data, and provide features such as 'make me angry' or 'validate my opinions'.
Just for fun of course, no real information would be solicited or sold.

I wonder if such a site would be considered a violation of this trademark,
were it to be granted.

~~~
ourlordcaffeine
When do you think you will get it running? Right now I just see an apache
welcome page. A parody social media site is something I want to see

~~~
ksangeelee
It's hard to say, since this is really just scratching an itch. It'll be on
GitHub as soon as the first meaningful version is available, contributions
will be welcome.

------
onetimemanytime
Nothing beats the $6 Million "We" trademark.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Intel has copyright on the lower-case letter 'i'. I claim victory.

~~~
detaro
Deutsche Telekom has trademarked the use of the color Maganta (RAL-4010) for
telecommunications products.

~~~
scrollaway
Trademarking colors is very common and to be honest, kinda reasonable given a
domain. "McDonald's Yellow" or "Coca Cola Red" are good examples.

[https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/cheerios-color-
tradema...](https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/cheerios-color-trademark-
brands)

[https://www.businessinsider.com/colors-that-are-
trademarked-...](https://www.businessinsider.com/colors-that-are-
trademarked-2012-9)

[https://assets.atlasobscura.com/article_images/45509/image.j...](https://assets.atlasobscura.com/article_images/45509/image.jpg)

------
notkaiho
Given the umpteen categories they have this application applying to, what
would their purpose for doing this be? To register "FACE" and "BOOK" together?

~~~
apricote
They already own the trademark for "FACE" [0] in the context of "Operating of
chat rooms, none primarily featuring or relating to motoring or to cars".

[0]:
[https://euipo.europa.eu/eSearch/#details/trademarks/00385277...](https://euipo.europa.eu/eSearch/#details/trademarks/003852779)

~~~
excalibur
Sooo would FaceTime run afoul of this?

~~~
kube-system
Would a reasonable person believe FaceTime is associated with Facebook?

~~~
beefhash
I suppose I'm not a reasonable person, then. I was under the impression
FaceTime _was_ a Facebook product, or at least bought from them.

------
zozbot234
Amazon might take issue with that.

~~~
martin-adams
And Apple

------
marapuru
Can someone explain to me what the implications of this trademark could be?
Would that mean that a store that sells books and would have the word Book in
their logo or brand could expect a lawsuit?

I'm not that familiar with trademarks and such.

~~~
austhrow743
trademarks are market specific. You could be a bookstore called "whatever
book" and be fine. You could not be a social network and call yourself
"whatever book". The general idea is to prevent things from being associated
with a brand in the consumers mind when that thing has no right to the
association.

~~~
bskap
Some of the markets they're applying for seem a little questionable. Looks
like they're trying to claim far more than just social network.

* Downloadable e-commerce computer software to allow users to perform electronic business transactions via a global computer and communication networks

* Magnetically encoded gift cards;

* Software for accessing and viewing text, images and electronic data relating to conferences in the field of software development;

* Software for making reservations and bookings;

* Software for ordering and/or purchasing goods and services

* Software to enable accessing, displaying, editing, linking, sharing and otherwise providing electronic media and information via the internet and communications networks

~~~
XJ6
> * Software for making reservations and bookings;

The word BOOKing should be a giant flag that they're trying to trademark the
generic name there. Reservation book, order book, etc all come from physical
books. It would be a giant stretch to try to trademark book for software
covering those things.

------
mirimir
Context:
[https://www.dictionary.com/e/facebooktrademark/](https://www.dictionary.com/e/facebooktrademark/)

------
kjar
How does this pass the straight face test. The proposition is insane, I hope I
wake up and this is all a fever dream.

~~~
raxxorrax
I think this is pretty much for occupying legal departments with benign work.
At least in some European countries with strong legal lobbies, they are very
welcome to do that. It is also sometimes used to advance shady trademarks that
can only succeed in contrast to applications like this.

------
artursapek
Shout out to Barnes and Noble, owners of book.com :D I hope Zuck doesn't try
to harass them next.

------
pentae
Seems just like lawyers doing lawyer things. People always read headlines like
this and imagine Zuck sitting around a conference table with a bunch of his
underlings cackling about their next big evil plot, but I bet he doesn't even
know about this it's just their legal team doing what they've been paid to do
- protect their trademark as much as possible.

~~~
kerkeslager
Just because someone is paid to do evil things doesn't mean it's suddenly
okay. In fact, getting paid is one of the most common reasons people do evil
things.

Capitalism doesn't work as a moral compass.

------
schappim
This is too close to home! My company is being sued by a company claiming the
suffix KEY.

------
sbfeibish
Noobs should become familiar with ICANN, WIPO, the US trademark database
(TESS) at (uspto.gov), GDPR (European Union), and the European Union's
trademark database (
[https://euipo.europa.eu/eSearch/#details/trademarks/01807570...](https://euipo.europa.eu/eSearch/#details/trademarks/018075708)
). As well as the rules for obtaining a trademark or patent. I hope Facebook
isn't obtaining a work mark trademark. Hopefully, only a design mark. Along
with the words "NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "GAME" APART
FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN". Book is a generic word and doesn't show source. The
EU shouldn't give Facebook an exclusive right to use book. Steve Feibish
(book.us)

~~~
sbfeibish
"NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "BOOK" APART FROM THE MARK AS
SHOWN". Sorry about that.

------
stuaxo
Can't they just fuck off?

------
nathancahill
"It's cleaner"

------
tabtab
sueBook.com :-)

~~~
rhacker
We are in desperate need of a startup like that - a social media mechanism
that organizes classes (as in class action) and goes after companies. Let
lawfirms bid on the cases (percentage/prestige + vote on the best lawfirm to
take the go)

