
I got arrested in Kazakhstan and represented myself in court - drpp
https://medium.com/@peretzp/i-got-arrested-in-kazakhstan-and-represented-myself-in-court-d3764fb738f1#.e2fu9nw2w
======
grizzles
This dude just grassed on all the people who bent the rules to be nice to him.
With pictures. For a moment of blog fame. Very uncool.

~~~
turar
The guy sounds like an asshole. His bemused depictions of friendly border
guards reek of self-superiority and total lack of empathy.

~~~
Unbeliever69
Try spending even a night in a U.S. jail, or worse yet, any considerable
amount of time in a US jail while awaiting trail, and ONLY THEN can you
appreciate how easy he got off. Before reading the article, my gut told me
that he was going to get it much harder in Russia. I was surprised to find out
how humanely he was treated compared to the way we treat suspects/inmates in
the U.S.

~~~
oh_sigh
He was in Kazakhstan....

------
steven777400
Great read. I've never been in a situation where a bribe might have helped and
so it's good to get some idea of "how bribes work" for possible future
reference.

I have noticed that it seems valuable to project being "poorer" rather than
"richer" when traveling. Naively it might seem like throwing money around
would grease all sorts of wheels but the opposite has been my experience
(although probably I just don't have enough money to throw around to really
grease the wheels).

~~~
mc32
John MacAfee has a great guide. Context is important. You need to know the
situation, you have to be situationally aware. You can't just start showing
money (maybe alcohol or other "currency" depending on their penchants are more
apt). You have to know a bit about the locals. See
[http://www.whoismcafee.com/the-travel-guide/](http://www.whoismcafee.com/the-
travel-guide/)

~~~
pavel_lishin
Serious question: given how ... unstable ... McAfee seems to be, how reliable
is this guide?

~~~
at-fates-hands
Just because he's paranoid schizophrenic now does not lessen his experiences
before his brain went AWOL. Considering he's dealt with some pretty hostile
governments and government officials, I'd say the advice is pretty solid.

On a side note, when I was in telecom, My boss (who had been in the industry
for 15 years) used to tell me about working for MCI and doing surveying and
laying copper in several middle eastern countries. He told me some stories
that would make the hair on your neck stand up.

He said it was an open secret that MCI was giving his team suitcases of cash
to bribe officials and the military just to allow them to do their job.
Stories of being pulled over at gunpoint, negotiating with military people and
being able to talk through the process of a bribe was something he always
maintained was part of the day-to-day survival game they played.

~~~
theoh
Being schizophrenic does not mean that the brain/mind is "AWOL".
Schizophrenics endure experience like the rest of us. The idea that the insane
have "no mind" is an old-fashioned, dehumanizing idea which should not be
tolerated even on HN where everyone is of course young, healthy and
overconfident. (!)

~~~
taneq
I was thinking about this just the other day, the term "demented" literally
means "with mind removed".

~~~
elbrownos
Actually it means "out of one's mind"

~~~
taneq
Huh. So it does, thanks for that!

...as a tangent, I'm impressed and slightly weirded out by the fact that I
googled for "etymology demented" and it answered directly with an etymological
tree for the word. Google's getting smarter.

------
exabrial
I don't know even what to make of this... The preamble suggests that
Kazakhstan justice was superior to American justice, but after reading the
whole story I'm like... dude, grow a sense of self-responsibility. It's not
like your visa expiring was a surprise... you knew exactly when it was going
to happen, and YOU CHOSE to violate it without giving yourself any wiggle
room. Then you willingly participated in a corrupt system, rewarding those who
profit from it.

It would have been so much easier and involve less questionable ethics to just
leave more than 24 hours in advance.

~~~
coldtea
I find this response, and the suggestions, exemplifying why Kazakhstan justice
(as expressed in the story, I don't know how it's in general) is superior to
American justice.

It's the ability to take the law and regulations lightly, when they're not
that serious, and be humane about it.

I mean writing: "YOU CHOSE to violate it", with added emphasis, as if having a
visa expiring on the same day you leave a place (and literally while you're on
a vehicle leaving it) is some kind of huge crime...

~~~
jules
All this does is provide random and selective justice for those who can pay
the bribe.

What about the visum expiring the day before you leave? Two days? The law has
to draw a line somewhere. It is the obligation of the person to stay clear of
that line. If the visum duration is too short, just make all visa valid for 16
days rather than 15 days, and then enforce that line equally for everybody.
Once corruption has taken a hold it tends to encroach on everything.

~~~
zeroer
> visum

Is this supposed to be some kind of faux-Latin plural? I defy you to find an
English dictionary that contains this word.

~~~
blowski
Apparently, it is the singular of visa in German.

~~~
kaeluka
German, singular: visum _or_ visa, both work. Plural: visa _or_ visas.

------
nathan_f77
Ooh, I have a relevant story that I've never shared before.

I was living in Kazakhstan for a while and had to take the overnight train to
Kyrgyzstan for a visa run. They're very old trains. I woke up around 3am and
had to use the restroom. The train had just stopped at a station in the middle
of nowhere, and it was the middle of winter. I went to the restroom. I
flushed. But when I looked down through the toilet, I saw snow and train
tracks. These trains didn't have anything to collect waste, they just flushed
straight onto the ground. I immediately heard some loud whistles and shouting,
and footsteps.

I rushed back to the bed and hoped that no-one saw me, but it was too late,
and then we spent the next 30 minutes talking to soldiers. I wasn't sure if
they were asking for extra money, or if it was something we needed to pay
anyway because we were crossing the border.

It was a tiny train station in the middle of nowhere, and we had no SIM cards,
so I started thinking about what we would do if they kicked us off the train.
I was actually kind of excited about the idea of building an igloo and
sleeping there overnight, and then going to get some help in the morning. That
would have been a better story, but in the end they just let us go.

So don't flush any ex-soviet train toilets when you're stopped at a station in
Central Asia.

~~~
_delirium
> But don't flush any ex-soviet train toilets when you're stopped at a train
> station.

Not just ex-Soviet trains, British ones too. Newer and renovated trains have
sewage tanks, but older trains flush directly onto the tracks (and often
therefore have a sign in the toilet asking you not to flush when stopped at a
station). According to the BBC, as of 2015 this applied to about 10% of the
trains in service: [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-
england-30541015](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-30541015)

The tabloids periodically have a field day with it when people notice again
that these trains are still not quite phased out. E.g. in 2014, there was a
minor sensation about the quantity of "fertiliser" on the tracks producing
tomato growth: [http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/trains-dump-much-
human-...](http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/trains-dump-much-human-
waste-4445188)

~~~
tn13
Almost all modern Indian trains are like this too. But I dont think you will
get into trouble for shitting on a station.

~~~
eklavya
Open defecation is such a big problem. There is a big government programme
just for this. I hope it succeeds and rids us of this shame.

~~~
tn13
I really doubt if that problem will ever be tackled. In cities it is a
logistical problem. Standing in line for 5 minutes for a proper toilet v/s
shitting on a track right away. There is no way on earth we can build
sufficient number of toilets for the people in Mulund or Dharavi slums. There
are politically incorrect solutions such as letting people defecate in open
but provide slightly better facilities which will help tackle all the shit.

In village however the problem is purely cultural. I worked with some NGO
which build proper flush toilets but people would prefer to use them as goat
shelters. Their priorities are different.

------
vbezhenar
I'm surprised, that a western man is so ready to participate in corruption. I
live in Kazakhstan and I would be very afraid to bribe an official, it could
become worse very fast and if you are caught with that, you'll have to bribe
much more people or end up in a jail with a very serious offence. I definitely
don't recommend to bribe an official in Kazakhstan, usually it's better and
safer to follow a law.

~~~
astral303
I agree. It's very naive and the original poster is lucky that he didn't end
up in serious trouble.

~~~
coldtea
Anybody who thinks it's "very naive" has never travelled much in such places
to see how things work, or went to some kind of boy scouts or the seminary
school...

------
dakics
Great story!

5 years ago we went on a Mongol Rally. Driving European vehicle through the
Stans makes you easy prey for local policeman. My co-driver had a strategy of
befriending them and sharing small gifts (pens, lighters etc.). Most expensive
were Tajik GBAO guards, they got headlamps. During my shifts I had 2
encounters but played dumb, even though I'm native in similar language and
could communicate. No bribes given. :)

Had a great time in Semey, KZ and later across the border in Barnaul. Must go
back some day, driving, of course:). If you love big skies of US west, you'll
be in heaven in Kazakhstan.

~~~
asymmetric
Would love to read about your experience on the Mongol Rally!

~~~
donretag
The Mongol Rally is on my bucket list, but there is no way I could ever find
like minded people to do it with.

~~~
dakics
Follow their FB page, there are many people who are looking for a partner, or
additional team member to share costs.

In fact, if you need to spend a month in a car, it might be better with a
person you don't know (friend, relative...). There will be too much
information you don't need to know. :)

Another #protip: the ultimate "get out of jail" card is the red MAN UTD
t-shirt.

It's the better universal value than cigarettes, pens or crisp $20 notes. If
we had few of those (fakes, obviously) we would've seriously cut our mechanic
bills and few other expenses along the way.

------
jlg23
Great read, but I don't buy it. I've not been to Kazakhstan but traveled
Africa and South America extensively. I've been to war zones. A lot of things
don't add up:

* A cop takes a bribe, is surprised the tourist is in some computer and then returns the bribe? I've never ever encountered a cop who takes bribes but does not know how the system works. They are not this stupid. This, by the way, is the best way to avoid bribing: Point out you accept punishment and let them work out the consequences for them - paperwork, getting you to jail etc. All this for a visa that expired a few hours ago? I'm sure they'll find a less work-intensive way to let you go.

* Cops being happy to have some "criminal" around for getting drunk and they even pay? No, they rather take your money and get drunk with their friends.

* The girl's story did not make much sense (abortion, breaking up, being raped, leaving school, being arrested, being dug on by a male guard while making out with a female guard and all of this within 24h? wait, what, I am missing some connections here).

I'm not saying that the base of the story ain't true, but there is, IMHO, a
lot of storytelling in there, too.

~~~
Pinatubo
If you read his story about his SF arrest you'll see he and his friend were
drunkenly interfering with paramedics trying to treat an accident victim, even
after the police told them to stop. He then threatened to commit suicide while
in jail and got put on psychiatric hold.

And somehow he turns that into a story of injustice. So yes, he likes
storytelling.

~~~
umwhat999
Um, what? I read the story of his SF arrest. That's... not what happened.

He was arrested because the police resented that he did not immediately
'respect my authoritah'. He was not interfering with paramedics. He was a safe
distance away.

He got put on psychiatric hold by the police as retribution for insisting it
is reasonable for him to have the right to see a doctor for medical treatment.

Medical treatment which was only required because the police physically
assaulted him.

It's very hard to imagine a retelling of his story which doesn't involve
substantial police misconduct.

~~~
Pinatubo
In the time it took you to make that throwaway account you could have read
this:

[http://sfist.com/2014/02/18/young_tech_worker_who_called_911...](http://sfist.com/2014/02/18/young_tech_worker_who_called_911_on.php)

or this:

[https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/779439/police_report_ann...](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/779439/police_report_annotated.pdf)

LOL, he stated he was a medic and tried to push his way past the police.

~~~
umwhat999
That's a... selective reading of that police report.

The idea that it is right for police to violently enforce their every whim if
one does not immediately obey all commands is a serious problem.

For one, only a small subset of all possible commands a police officer could
make are commands which one is legally obligated to follow.

Secondly, I think we want a society where police choose constructive dialog
over violence.

Nothing about this incident was necessary or proportionate.

Unnecessary violence has made policing dangerous lately. A few years ago it
was more dangerous to supervise lawncare, be a taxi driver, collect garbage,
or be a handyman than it was to be a police officer.

I wonder if this year's escalations will lead to policing actually becoming a
dangerous profession. :(

~~~
trhway
>Secondly, I think we want a society where police choose constructive dialog
over violence.

seeing how deep the police got addicted to violence one can only wonder
whether it is possible for them to get sober at all.

I mean you can't make that up - [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-
mix/wp/2016/07/2...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-
mix/wp/2016/07/21/fla-police-shoot-black-man-with-his-hands-up-as-he-tries-to-
help-autistic-patient/) . Just make sure to watch the video. The police tried
to shoot the autistic patient even after the therapist clearly explained to
them everything, and there were absolutely no danger to anybody. The police
screwed the shot [fortunately] and instead of killing the autistic patient
they hit the therapist in the leg.

~~~
jessaustin
I thought it was a scapegoating situation: the light-skinned guy didn't do
what they wanted, so they shot the black guy.

~~~
trhway
it gets even "better" \- the police who shot black therapist is now saying
that he was trying to save the therapist from the autistic patient. If not for
the video, we'd never knew how really low their lies are. The police
demonstrate all the symptoms of addiction - doing their drug (violence) and
lying about it in the face of obviously contradicting evidence.

[http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-
way/2016/07/22/487027848/...](http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-
way/2016/07/22/487027848/north-miami-officer-was-aiming-at-man-with-autism-
union-chief-says)

------
mind_heist
Is that picture going to get Irlan in trouble ?

~~~
krick
I hope not, but it seems to me that not taking photos if explicitly asked not
to is _the least_ you can do for a guy who, upon arresting you treats you like
a best friend, helps you to get refund for unused ticket and buys you bear and
coffee. Hell, it's actually only human to restrain from taking photos of
somebody who doesn't want to, but doing so to that Irlan guy?

The most repulsive thing is author doesn't do that because of malevolence. He
just honestly doesn't care.

It's funny that probably being a type of person that I dislike so much, may be
actually helping him to write a story I like so much.

~~~
crazypyro
I personally don't find it morally wrong to take pictures of someone who was
pressuring you for bribes. My "best friends" don't try to extort me for money.
Irlan was only nice when he realized the author could provide entertainment
and had very little assets...

~~~
jpatokal
"Extortion" is not the right word here. The OP was _genuinely_ in hot water
due to their own actions, Irlan was offering a potential way out.

It would be extortion if Irlan had (say) planted a kilo of heroin in his bags
and then demanded money.

~~~
witty_username
But it's still bribery and corruption.

------
swimnow
Something similar happened to me. I was a citizen of Uzbekistan at the time. I
was about to fly out of Almaty. When the lady at the checkpoint saw my
passport, she asked where my exit visa was. I never knew all the Uzbek
citizens needed one to leave the post Soviet territory. So, I was denied my
seat on the plane. Had to renew my ticket for $50. Come next day, another lady
at the checkpoint says the same thing - without the exit visa I am not going
anywhere. The plane was already boarding and I was about to miss it again. She
saw me getting agitated and says "why don't you talk to this man here?". He
said everything could be arranged for mere $300. Even though I was an actual
student and poor as a church mouse, I had to pay it. I was let out.

~~~
pavel_lishin
How much would it have cost to get an exit visa?

~~~
Someone
In dollars, I would guess less. In hours, likely a lot longer.

------
gheeohm
I'm amazed by the amount of negative comments.

In my opinion, this is a great, well written traveling story, where no
objective, willful harm was caused by the author. What I got from it was that
a book should not be judged by its cover, it's important to try and relate to
people when traveling, and violence against women is a horrible problem.

If the names weren't changed, you could say he was a bit naive (although the
odds of this ever reaching Irlan seem somewhat small to me), but ultimately,
he portrayed all of the people he met in a positive light that makes me want
to visit Kazakhstan.

I think being in such a situation, out of one's comfort zone, gives great
perspective on what really matters (although it's not for everyone).

------
mildbow
Heartwarming story.

What I've experienced is, all over the world, people will try to help: if you
seem like you need help and don't have all the answers/money.

For travelers -- if you know the local language, speak it. I had a scary
experience in the same part of the word and managed to "ingenious" my way out
of it. Speakign the local language just helps people identify with you more.

treat them like a person and they'll treat you like you are a person.

------
HNaTTY
Reading this and then going back and reading his SF arrest story (linked in
the article) is a real contrast.

~~~
plaguuuuuu
Is that story legit?

~~~
Viper007Bond
It happened, but whether it happened like he said is up for debate. There's
reports from others out there that he actually was being drunk, disruptive to
rescue operations, and elbowed a cop in the eye.

Yet another reason to have body cameras -- no he said, they said.

~~~
jpreiland
It seems like body cams keep mysteriously getting disconnected before
something goes down though

------
atmosx
All ex-communist countries were poverty is the status quo have a similar way
of dealing with things. We call it bribe, but most of us are on the _bright
side_ of the planet, financially speaking at least.

If Irlan didn't wanted to be bribed there would no discussion. All the chit-
chat was in order to induce the victim to bribe him.

I heard much more salty stories from my father who was a Businessmen in the
Balkan area in the 90s and 00s. After 2002 the situation in the Balkan area
improved a lot, but it's not uncommon for police officers to get bribed, it's
their way to make ends meet and the easier way for a foreigner to _get things
done_.

------
joelhaasnoot
Cute story, but wonder if the outcome would be the same if the author hadn't
originally been Russian and didn't speak Russian.

~~~
Dr_tldr
While speaking a common language usually (but not always) helps, being a US
citizen is the way more important part of the story.

Police in the United States are used to generally treating everyone (including
foreigners) with impunity, while cops in other countries dealing with US
citizens are more wary of causing a diplomatic incident. There's also the
novelty factor: people from high status countries are seen as interesting, and
the more uncommon your presence is there, the more friendly interest officials
take.

He's making a mistaken inference by assuming that how the police treat US
citizens also reflects how they treat locals.

~~~
drpp
Everything you say is true. I fully acknowledge that. I hope it's not implied
otherwise.

~~~
Dr_tldr
I still think it's a great story that's funny and well told while being
respectful to the people involved. It's definitely indicative of a meaningful
part of the culture that's very different from the western/american
bureaucratic mindset.

------
jgust
Can anyone tell me what this means?

> ...in another ten years, you will see, we’ll be living like Arabs.

~~~
clydethefrog
The future of Kazakhstan is highly unstable. The current slightly benevolent
dictator has no good processor and the development of Kazakhstan is mostly
dependent of oil, so when renewable energy becomes the norm and rhe president
dies in the coming ten years the country will probably implode.

~~~
civilian
> has no good processor

Do you mean he is stupid or that Kakakistan doesn't have an oil refinery or
that he doesn't have a successor?

~~~
jjawssd
I think he meant to write predecessor but what he really meant was successor.
Potentially confusing similar words for non-English speakers.

------
fsckin
This reminds me of Bert Kreischers' story about his travels in Russia as part
of a language immersion trip.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PAtFsJY5q0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PAtFsJY5q0)

~~~
aflex
One of my favorite stories from mother land.

------
polytap
This story reflects most poorly on the author himself.

------
kharms
"I could have called the US embassy, but from past experience I knew their
help was often useless, and occasionally even harmful."

This was an interesting throw away. I wonder what his experience was.

~~~
jrockway
His other article is about how to never call 911 if you see someone injured
because you'll get arrested.

Good reading material, but I'm probably going to call the embassy (and 911).

~~~
nommm-nommm
The author was being a total dick in that other story so his conclusion was
incorrect.

At the very least its very impolite to hang around and gaggle at a police
investigation or someone getting aid from the EMS. At that point you are only
getting in the way.

I've never personally gotten assistance from a US Embassy but I know people
who have and they were genuinely helpful.

------
ommunist
for god sake, the author has to at very least change names of the guys who
sincerely helped him to avoid serious troubles.

~~~
marssaxman
Are you sure he didn't already do that?

------
robertson041
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------
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------
staticfish
what a wonderful story. really puts arguing about typesafe frameworks in
perspective..

A+++ would read again.

------
Annalbano012
I met him back then in 2014, he has helped me with more than five exploits, he
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------
agentgt
The author is very gifted writer. I was hoping for a quick skim but I could
not stop reading.

------
Twirrim
"He who represents himself has a fool for a client" \- Abraham Lincoln.

------
lunchTime42
We are programmers and architects - do not bend the rules, we made them, your
bending suggests flaws and imperfection and is offending.

Trains shall run on tracks. Spontanious agents are a loss of controll. The
horror.

~~~
lunchTime42
The downvoting behaviour so predictable. The irony of a controlling agent,
hating the idea of beeing controllable.

------
johansch
a) Sensationalist headline - something that seems amazing to someone who is
not e.g. russian - but the person is actually russian

b) Outing the photo of a cute 18 yo girl "who just got raped"

Yes - an interesting story - but this is extreme clickbait likely for profit.
And problematic in other dimensions. This guy is an opportunist who does not
seem to care about other people.

~~~
drpp
A) This was a pretty unusual experience for me. And I think it is unusual for
the readers.

B) I can see your point. She did ask me to take photos and to tell her story.
I have not been in touch with her in a while. I will deliberate for a bit and
consider taking down her photos.

There is no profit motive. I am not paid for this story.

~~~
CamperBob2
_Irlan (left) wouldn’t let me take pictures, but occasionally I’d sneak one
in._

I'm not sure what to think about this. Corruption is bad. But this particular
official's heart seemed to be in the right place, and he treated you with
respect, honesty, and generosity, even when he didn't have to. He doesn't seem
to have been repaid in kind.

I _want_ to say something like, "Hopefully Irlan isn't on the wrong side of
the courtroom as a result of your story," but on the other hand... corruption
is bad, and I don't want the legal system in my own country to work this way.

So, did you do a good thing by exposing Irlan and his colleagues, or a bad
thing by betraying them? I honestly don't know. You made me empathize with
someone I wouldn't ordinarily empathize with, and then you stuck a knife in
his back. Which is interesting.

Parenthetically, if you're a US citizen, you're subject to the FCPA, which can
potentially be a pretty big deal. Google it if you're not familiar with the
acronym. I don't know if the FCPA's reach extends to bribing low-level
immigration officials, but it's worth looking into if you plan to leave the
article up.

~~~
vkou
IANAL,

Is the FCPA applicable outside the context of business transactions?

~~~
CamperBob2
Dunno. However, the Feds have a long history of defining "business
transactions" in whatever terms suit their purposes at the moment. (Wickard v.
Filburn comes to mind, for one thing.) And certainly export regulations don't
make a distinction between commercial and private transactions.

------
fiatjaf
Is this real?

------
cloudjacker
and the award for biggest snitch of the year goes to OP......

can you like take this down?

