

Rand Paul wants to lead a Supreme Court challenge to Feds' tracking of Americans - jchavannes
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/09/paul-wants-to-lead-supreme-court-challenge-to-fed-tracking-americans-calls/

======
bpatrianakos
What amazes me is the hypocrisy in all this. The American people have
basically known about this since about 2006. It's just that there wasn't as
much proof or specifics but the media covered this and it was pretty much
common knowledge that all phone calls and Internet activity were being
watched. Of course that's not okay and I still get the current outrage.
Totally understandable.

But then there are the senators... These guys approved this activity long ago
and while not all of them knew the specifics the Intelligence Committe did.
They were taken into meetings where no note taking tools or anything with a
battery was allowed and briefed about this.

Now that this story breaks the senate gets their panties in a twist like this
is news to them. They simultaneously defend it and condemn it.

It isn't fair to make such a blanket statement about the entire Senate, I know
but what I'm really getting at here is that what Rand Paul is doing doesn't
strike me as sincere at all. It looks like a dog and pony show set up to make
it look like someone gives a shit while they all keep getting briefed and
voting for this stuff behind closed doors.

It's like set up a bunch of PR stunts to make us feel warm and funny then do
the opposite while no one is paying attention. On this issue I feel like its
the guys trying to get attention the most who can be trusted the least.

~~~
mitchi
Rand Paul may have its faults. Many people like libertarianism but they don't
like the pro-religion/prolife and pro-rich aspects that come with it. That's
why Bill Maher has distanced himself recently from the libertarian appelation.
However to say that it's not sincere coming from Rand Paul is not fair at all.
If you know a little bit about who he is, who his father is, you couldn't say
that... Of course Rand Paul is building a political portfolio for 2016. The
filibuster, the TSA, the balanced budgets and now this, it's all going into
it. But all these political actions are in line with who he is and what he
represents. And still, after all that there's a very big chance he'll lose to
a generic republican like Rubio or Ryan in the primaries.

~~~
newbie12
Your speculation about the GOP primaries is mis-informed. In 2010, Rand was an
insurgent "tea party" republican, as was Rubio -- both men were officially
opposed by the party in their primaries and defeated the "generic" GOP
candidate. In both the GOP and Democrat parties, generic candidates often
struggle in primaries if there is a non-crazy candidate who can appeal to the
base. Rand has a safe path back to the GOP nomination -- his biggest risk is
doing too much "national" work and losing to an establishment Democrat in
battleground Kentucky.

~~~
tmzt
My reading of it is he was referring to the 2016 Presidential primary contest
for the Republican Party, not to the Republican primary for the Senate race in
Kentucky.

------
_delirium
Since he's a member of the Senate, a more direct route than the judicial
branch would be to pursue legislative-branch solutions, such as introducing a
bill to amend the FISA statute in a more civil-liberties-friendly manner.

~~~
Vivtek
That wouldn't be in the spirit of empty grandstanding at all! You, sir, simply
don't understand Ron Paul's strategy.

~~~
meepmorp
Rand, not Ron.

But, yes, I believe this is probably of a piece with his drone filibuster in
terms of being political theatrics.

------
ipsin
I was surprised by Rand Paul's proposed bill "To stop the [NSA] from spying on
citizens of the United States":

[http://www.paul.senate.gov/files/documents/EAS13699.pdf](http://www.paul.senate.gov/files/documents/EAS13699.pdf)

The effective body is fairly direct: "The Fourth Amendment to the Constitution
shall not be construed to allow any agency of the United States Government to
search the phone records of Americans without a warrant based on probable
cause."

What really surprised me was that it used the word "search", rather than, say,
"collect". Given that we don't know what happened to the records gathered
under Stellar Wind/RAGTIME, it's possible that the activity would still be
legal under Paul's bill.

I'm curious whether this choice of wording was intentional or accidental.

~~~
jroseattle
My wife is a former lobbyist. The wording is _always_ intentional.

------
akiselev
What does that mean, "lead a Supreme Court challenge?"

From what I understand, they'd have to file lawsuit with a lower court and
fight the long long road up to the SC docket.

~~~
aroch
SCOTUS can have "original jurisdiction"[1] over some cases depending on the
matter under review. In this case, because the State (read: USG) is a party in
the case, SCOTUS can be the court in which a case is first argued.

_____

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procedures_of_the_Supreme_Court...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procedures_of_the_Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States#Original_jurisdiction)

------
Vivtek
Rand Paul needs a class in civics, looks like.

~~~
peterjancelis
Or you need to read up about the concept of "original jurisdiction" with
regards to the Supreme Court.

------
jmadsen
The interesting side story behind all of this, that HN isn't looking at at
all, is the "bi-partisanship as usual" reaction from outside Washington.

A reason something might come of this? Ironically, it is because the Rush
Limbaugh crowd look at it as a way to get Obama, et al, while liberals are
equally aghast. Never mind that it was all spearheaded by a Republican
administration.

Now, as for me, I vote Green & don't like any of 'em - but it's nice to see
everyone looking like they might agree on something for once.

------
suredo
Do I need a warrant to get Obama's data for my data analysis project?

------
suredo
I heard my neighbor making bomb threats against the goverment (not me, my
neighbor) although I am mad at my government..

------
diminoten
Yeah this should happen, but no Rand Paul shouldn't be in front of it.

~~~
alipang
Why not? Like him or not, this is definitely in line with the libertarian
position.

~~~
diminoten
Because he'll make concessions and strategy choices which are _not_ in line
with what I want.

------
d4vlx
Rand Paul would probably do a lot more good by learning how to think
rationally.

~~~
adventured
That's all you've got? You feel free to call a man irrational, but provide
nothing to support that position. Dare I say that comes across as belligerent
ad hominem.

~~~
d4vlx
From his Benghazi hearing testimony

"I'm glad that you're accepting responsibility. I think ultimately with your
leaving that you accept the culpability for the worst tragedy since 9/11\. And
I really mean that. Had I been president and found you did not read the cables
from Benghazi and from Ambassador Stevens, I would have relieved you of your
post. I think it's inexcusable."

\- his obsession with drastically cutting social programs at a time when so
many Americans need them

\- his obsession with balancing the budget when interest rates are so low and
the so many things point to the problem being a lack of spending / almost
nothing pointing to the deficit being a problem

\- his backwards social views

I forget how easy mainstream American media goes on him. He makes some
interesting points but overall he seems very much like a dogmatic and
unimaginative libertarian conservative.

~~~
sageikosa
Your use of these as evidence of Paul's irrationality does not seem rational.
Instead, they appear as a complaint that he doesn't share the same values as
you; and by extension he must be irrational since your values obviously must
be rationally chosen.

~~~
d4vlx
Actually no, except for my point on social views. A couple assumptions I made
are:

1) He wants the American economy to improve

2) He wants to do what it best for Americans as a whole

They seem like reasonable assumptions, correct me if you seem any hole in them
please.

I do not think he his actions and these assumed goals are linked in a rational
way.

