
In 2019, there were only 13 PhDs in CS granted to African Americans in the U.S. [pdf] - camillomiller
https://cra.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/2019-Taulbee-Survey.pdf
======
ta_tunestub
According to Census Bureau (2019)[1], this is the racial/ethnic makeup of the
US:

    
    
        White                                       60.4%
        Hispanic and Latino Americans (of any race) 18.3%
        Black or African American                   13.4%
        Asian                                       5.9%
        Native Americans and Alaska Natives         1.3%
        Native Hawaiians and Other Pacific Islander 0.2%
        Two or more races 2.7%
    
    

Below is the normalized 2019 CS Ph.D. count for what you'd expect if the US
was 100% of each respective race/ethnicity:

    
    
        White                          608
        Hispanic...                    115
        Black or African/American      97
        Asian                          2,560
        Native Americans/Alaska Native 153
        Native Hawaiian/Pac Islander   500
    
    

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_Unit...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States)

------
twybrobdingnag

        Nonresident Alien             906 61.7%
        Amer Indian or Alaska Native    2  0.1%
        Asian                         151 10.3%
        Black or African-American      13  0.9%
        Native Hawaiian/Pac Islander    1  0.1%
        White                         365 24.9%
        Multiracial, not Hispanic       9  0.6%
        Hispanic, any race             21  1.4%

~~~
speby
And only 21 of hispanic background? That's low, too. Also, "Non-resident
Alien" could include all manner of race/ethnicity. Does it break anything down
beyond that?

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jungletime
This is terrible. More black people are struck by lightning, than earn a CS
Phd?

"over the last 30 years (1989-2018) the U.S. has averaged 43 reported
lightning fatalities per year. Only about 10% of people who are struck by
lightning are killed, leaving 90% with various degrees of disability"

[https://www.weather.gov/safety/lightning-
odds](https://www.weather.gov/safety/lightning-odds)

13.2% of the US population is black.
[https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/IPE120218](https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/IPE120218)

So expected is about 6 black people killed by lighting, and 60 struck/year vs
13 who graduate with CS Phd if these stats are correct.

------
ReptileMan
And the Nonresident Aliens get 906 more times PHDs than native hawaian (also
twice as many as all of US ethnicities combined)

Statistics could mean a lot of things and can be spun a lot of ways.

------
camillomiller
Ethnicity stats can be seen at page 6.

~~~
Udik
These don't seem ethnicity stats at all. These are "two or three groups we
have problems with" plus the rest of humanity divided in "white" and "Asians".

------
joeblow9999
using the word 'granted' is an odd phrasing here

~~~
eesmith
How so? The terminology is centuries old.

See
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_degree](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_degree)
, which mentions things like "The Archbishop of Canterbury's right to grant
degrees is derived from Peter's Pence Act of 1533 which empowered the
Archbishop to grant dispensations previously granted by the Pope")

Or
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_degree#History_of...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_degree#History_of_professional_degrees_in_North_America)
\- "The M.B. or Bachelor of Medicine was the first medical degree to be
granted in the United States and Canada."

Or for a university, [http://catalog.yale.edu/gsas/degree-granting-
departments-pro...](http://catalog.yale.edu/gsas/degree-granting-departments-
programs/) \- "Degree-Granting Departments and Programs".

------
_prototype_
And? In 2020 America there is ample opportunity for anyone to attempt a CS
Phd. I am a proponent of equality of opportunity, not of outcome.

~~~
epistasis
This stat is clear evidence that there is not equality of opportunity.

~~~
jwond
Disparity of outcome does not prove disparity of opportunity.

~~~
epistasis
Could you explain the logic that get you to that conclusion?

Everytime somebody has tried to argue that to me, it turns out that they
believe that there are racial differences that are not based on evidence.

For example, I once had somebody say that the racial outcome differences were
not like socioeconomic upbringing differences in outcome, and that though
socioeconomic outcome differences were evidence of difference in opportunity,
that racial differences were genetic, which is clearly abiological.

So if you are not positing racial differences in opportunity, what are you
positing as the explanatory variable?

~~~
luminaobscura
If it was all socioeconomics, you could see that in the data. You would
control for parent's income and/or education, and you would see disparity
disappear.

I don't know what is the primary cause of disparities but i wouldn't assume
it's all socioeconomics without evidence.

Maybe different groups are valuing things differently? For example, an Indian
may try to migrate to US using PHD as a gateway. So they may be more willing
to sacrifice and work hard. Or maybe for some groups PHD (or education in
general) brings more prestige compared to others.

~~~
epistasis
My point is that socioeconomic differences resulting in different outcomes
would be accepted as evidence of differences of opportunity. Because there's
ample evidence of opportunities being different when growing up with fewer
resources and more stresses.

There's also ample evidence of racial discrimination resulting in differences
of opportunity, in all fields of science. But people are quick to assume that
it doesn't exist, or are quick to point out any chance that it may even exist.

~~~
luminaobscura
If a group has "fewer resources and more stresses" "when growing up", we
should try to address that directly.

This doesn't mean universities doesn't present equal opportunity.

The reason someone is not as capable may be just bad luck (bad parents etc.).
But still, society should give positions to most capable ones.

~~~
epistasis
I would point out that the original claim was "equal opportunity," not merely
"universities presenting equal opportunity."

And I agree that we should fix the systemic racism that causes unequal
opportunity starting from early in in life.

And if we are to believe the stories that come from Black people that attempt
degrees in CS, or STEM in general, they also face significant differences in
opportunity at the university level as well. I'm inclined to believe these
stories, as everytime I have spent some time investigating they have been
true.

