
James Cameron begins deepest dive - ed209
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17503395
======
dandelany
Paul Allen's Twitter seems to be a good source of up-to-the-minute news on the
dive: <https://twitter.com/#!/PaulGAllen>

He says he's on "Octopus," which I assume is one of the support vessels.
Aparently Cameron's sub has just touched down on the seabed, Allen's latest
tweet:

#deepseachallenge hit bottom at 0752 local time "All systems ok"

and a few minutes before that:

"Now on the bottom 35755 ft!! Plan is for #Deepseachallenge to spend 4-6 hours
on the seabed- take samples....Huge Congrats what a relief!!!"

Very exciting!

~~~
marcelvr
Octopus is Paul's yacht: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus_(yacht)>

~~~
jordanb
Man, whenever I see Paul Allen whining about Gates or Ballmer, I think, it
sure is curious way to screw someone over: turning them into a billionaire.

~~~
saucetenuto
Does Paul Allen actually whine, or is it just that other people whine on his
behalf? All the quotes I've read from him have been classy, or at least
reserved.

------
Isamu
They mention the hull is made of "syntactic foam".

It seems this is a composite of (glass,ceramic,etc) microspheres in a resin
matrix. They mention in the bbc video that they glue blocks together and
machine them somehow - how does one machine such a composite?

More on syntactic foam:
[http://www.crgrp.com/technology/materialsportfolio/syntactic...](http://www.crgrp.com/technology/materialsportfolio/syntactics.shtml)

[edit] yet more:

"Syntactic foam flotation products are available in formulations for shallow
water foam to those capable of reaching the bottom of the Mariana Trench."

<http://www.esyntactic.com/>

"The HZ Grade of syntactic has been formulated to survive the deepest depths
of the ocean. This class of syntactic will survive crush pressures greater
than 20,000 psi making for safe operation in the Hadal Zone.

<http://www.esyntactic.com/dwsfs.htm>

~~~
Isamu
So they say the pilot sphere is thick steel. How do they run the control
wiring to the outside? Or could the control signals sent through transducers
(e.g. ultrasonic?)

~~~
bbatsell
They use electrical penetrators such as these:
<http://seaconworldwide.com/products/penetrators/penetrators/>

They are listed as one of the main points of failure on the dive's website:
[http://deepseachallenge.com/the-expedition/deepsea-
challenge...](http://deepseachallenge.com/the-expedition/deepsea-challenge-
expedition-risks-dangers/)

------
michael_nielsen
The official Twitter account: <https://twitter.com/#!/DeepChallenge>

According to tweets from @PaulGAllen and @PeterDiamandis, Deep Challenge
should arrive at the bottom around 14:40 PST.

Edit (14:50 PST): No word from @PaulGAllen since 14:20 PST, when he noted
Cameron was at 32160 feet and "not long to seabead now". I hope the people on
the support crew are just really busy because Cameron is touching down on the
bottom!

~~~
davidpardo
He's on the bottom right now. Latest @jimcameron tweet: "Just arrived at the
ocean's deepest pt. Hitting bottom never felt so good. Can't wait to share
what I'm seeing w/ you @DeepChallenge"

~~~
michael_nielsen
Awesome! According to @PaulGAllen, they hit at 0752 local time, and "all
systems ok"!

~~~
yew
@PaulGAllen: Pressure at bottom is 16,285 Pounds per square inch at that
depth. Design pressure was 16,500 ...Yikes/Amazing!

Amazing that it is working. The engineering must be interesting.

Edit: Apparently the DC weighs a tenth as much as the Trieste (the original
bathyscaphe), including all the instruments. Less than a lifetime. . .

~~~
evoxed
Just read that too. That's not much of a safety factor! Still, it's quite a
feat and I hope it continues smoothly.

~~~
JshWright
It's quite likely that the 16,500PSI rating is accounting for the safety
factor.

~~~
snarf
16,500 PSI was just what it was tested at, and it could apparently withstand
significantly greater pressure than that. From the Deep Sea Challenge website:

"The hull, complete with its hatch and viewport, was tested twice in a
pressure chamber at Pennsylvania State University to an equivalent full-ocean-
depth pressure of 16,500 pounds per square inch (1,138 bars). It passed both
tests. Twenty-two strain gauges attached to the sphere gave data that
indicated the sphere could withstand up to 140 percent of the test pressure
without buckling."

------
sek
I have deep respect for this guy. He really cares about these things and makes
a living out of it. I share his fascination with the sea and exploration. He
really has a message with his movies, but unfortunately not understood by
everyone.

~~~
ojbyrne
Um, I don't think "not understood" is correct. More like not wanting to be
hammered over the head with his simplistic, fable-like, morals.

~~~
ojbyrne
I should have been clearer. I still like his movies, but they're not terribly
deep. Entertaining for sure.

What he's doing now is obviously pretty damn impressive.

~~~
sek
What i meant was inspiring for exploration, deep sea, the space and so on.

The stories in his movie is often very mainstream, but look at the panorama
scenes he makes. He really cares about impressive nature and unknown worlds. I
really enjoyed Sanctum because of this, these deep caves are really
impressive. The story is just something that makes is accessible for the
masses. No theater would show a nature documentation and he wouldn't get the
funds to make them.

~~~
MrJagil
Are you saying that what Cameron really wanted to do is documentaries?

also: "No theater would show a nature documentation" Remember Earth?

~~~
sek
Maybe, probably both, but his approach to create popular movies around is the
most intelligent way.

Earth was a failure and if something similar with that budget will be made
soon is questionable.

Budget: €30,000,000 (estimated)

Gross: $32,001,863

Cameron can do anything he want's with any budget since decades and earned
himself a fortune to do things on his own.

------
danberger
How awesome is it that he is tweeting from the deepest point on earth?

~~~
jacob1
It's neat, but keep in mind that we had live video from the moon in the 60's.

~~~
mladenkovacevic
And this is one of the few events since then that are capable of exciting as
much wonder and curiosity. I wasn't alive during the Apollo program but this
probably brings me close to the sheer jaw dropping awe I would've experienced
had I enjoyed the opportunity to watch the moon landings on tv.

------
pepsi
Almost done with ascent:

#deepseachallenge sub now at 700M rising.

<https://twitter.com/#!/PaulGAllen/status/184095201709662208>

------
cop359
Does anyone know how they communicate with the sub?

My understanding is that radio waves can't penetrate water very far (if at
all) and that it's impractical to drag a long cable down.

~~~
apaprocki
From Paul Allen:

"#deepseachallenge for the curious, using underwater audio coms UT2000/3000 at
8K freq to hear/talk to Jim five miles of water...30K ft now"

~~~
Isamu
"The UT 3000 is the very first underwater communication system combining
analogue and digital communication in one unit. In addition to the telephony
and telegraphy mode, the UT 3000 offers unique features such as own noise
measurement, horizontal distance measurement and transmission of SOS signals.

"The new digital mode for the first time allows fast and reliable transmission
of digital data in water. The possibilities for digital data transfer are
nearly unlimited. In the future, own position data, SMS, maneuver reports or
target data can be exchanged between submarines in a more secure way.

<http://www.naval-technology.com/contractors/sonar/l-3_comm/>

[http://www.elac-nautik.de/products-naval_acoustics-
underwate...](http://www.elac-nautik.de/products-naval_acoustics-
underwater_communication/highlite-
underwater_communication/0a9f51ec9b480fec01b01ddcb38c9515/)

Also: according to the UT 3000 MASQ brochure, it can transmit at up to 1000
bits/sec from 12km to 17km

Edit more: the brochure says the communication protocol overhead is typically
20%. Error correction is included - and features "excellent burst noise
rejection". I would think underwater burst noise could be quite long. Would
this require an interleaved code? Could someone comment on this?

~~~
spullara
It is probably 100x cheaper per byte than sending an SMS.

------
michael_nielsen
Cameron hit the bottom at 14:52 PST, according to @PaulGAllen, and "all
systems ok".

Here's Cameron's tweet announcing his arrival: "Just arrived at the ocean's
deepest pt. Hitting bottom never felt so good. Can't wait to share what I'm
seeing w/ you @DeepChallenge"

<https://twitter.com/#!/JimCameron/status/184036733959143425>

~~~
excuse-me
Am digging through black lifeless seabed mud and ooze - hope to find script
for next movie.

~~~
ojbyrne
Actually the phrase "teeming with life" has been used to describe where he is:
[http://www.voanews.com/english/news/science-
technology/Deep-...](http://www.voanews.com/english/news/science-
technology/Deep-Ocean-is-Earths-Own-Outer-Space-144031706.html)

~~~
andrewcooke
is it really ok to drop the word "maybe" from the front of that quote?

~~~
ojbyrne
Since the entire article and the point of the whole enterprise is to document
that life, I say yes. It's a reasonable rejoinder to "lifeless."

Plus I linked to the article, so it's not like I was being misleading. I was
stating my point succinctly.

------
softbuilder
Guts.

~~~
softbuilder
Funny, because I originally wrote out a long-winded comment about how I can
imagine doing everything he's done except doing the actually descent myself,
because of the incredible bravery. Then I realized my entire train of thought
could best be summarized in one word. But of course if it doesn't come
packaged in longwinded, pseudoacademic gibberish, HN won't like it. Lesson
learned.

~~~
yew
Think more that as I am not inside your head, I do not have the slightest clue
as to what your one-word post is intended to communicate.

------
dredmorbius
DEEPSEA CHALLENGE Expedition Risks & Dangers document describes various
possible failure modes of the mission, and answers a few questions below.
E.g.: "penetrator failure" addresses electrical connectivity through the
survival sphere.

I found the hyperthermia/hypothermia risk interesting. The survival sphere is
not temperature controlled, and will adjust to ambient. With equipment
heating, that's over 100F and 100% relative humidity at the surface in the
tropics. At depth, ambient water temperatures are just above 0C (32F).

[http://www.scribd.com/document_downloads/86673244?extension=...](http://www.scribd.com/document_downloads/86673244?extension=pdf&from=embed)

------
avar
He just landed on the bottom at -10.9 km:
<https://twitter.com/PaulGAllen/status/184037895819112448>

------
darxius
I don't understand, has he left yet?

Either way, this is awesome! I can't wait to see what lies at those depths. I
would love to know how the engineers who build the new vessel fixed the silt
issue.

~~~
softbuilder
Looks like he's started descent.

And I read another article that had more diagrams (maybe Wired?) that showed
the propulsion on the craft is at the top, and the pilot space is on the
bottom. I guess that solves the silt problem.

------
MatthewPhillips
Old media: <http://www.cnn.com/>

New media: <https://twitter.com/#!/i/discover>

Guess which one isn't covering this historic event.

~~~
ojbyrne
<http://nytimes.com> has a story on their front page, top middle.

~~~
MatthewPhillips
Underneath the all important Arnold Palmer Invitational results headline
article.

~~~
ojbyrne
Your comment basically suggests that the only difference between "new media"
and "old media" is the editorial stance, which stories to emphasize and which
to deemphasize. And "new media" essentially caters to the geek/science niche,
while old media appeals to the mainstream.

So what exactly is new?

------
ivankirigin
What a hero

------
Medicine
he is back

------
maeon3
Creatures down there have been separated from life up here for ever, we need
to get the DNA sequenced for some of them, we may find some shocking
discoveries of our ancestors 500 million years ago. Are there plans to bring
back animal samples?

~~~
pclark
It is very difficult to collect animal samples from such great depths - the
pressure difference.

It is one of the reasons as to why giant squids are so mysterious.

~~~
DanBC
He has pressurised containers for samples.

------
lwat
I can't wait to see what he manages to film down there!

------
jonniekang
I really hope he finds a UFO or some sea-dwelling people.

