
Zoom is reinstalling itself after a minute of being uninstalled [video] - maloga
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AL28s9An5k
======
eeeeeeeeeeeee
I couldn't reproduce it (Mac, Mojave 10.14.5). I did this:

1\. Ensure Zoom client is not running (the GUI, not the ZoomOpener)

2\. Completely delete Zoom client app from /Applications, empty trash

(ZoomOpener continues to run from ~/.zoomus/, not just from memory, it is
never deleted)

3\. Wait 5 minutes

However, if you click on any Zoom link after you've done those three steps, it
will absolutely re-install that client app into /Applications AND launch it
into that video room. I confirmed that.

I still feel this is a violation of my trust and I'm uninstalling this app
entirely and won't use Zoom again.

Also, if Apple actually cared about the Mac and privacy like they say they do,
they would temporarily revoke Zoom's app signing key until they cut this shit
out.

~~~
MacroChip
You sure you want that last sentence? If that were happening, we would all be
commenting on here about how Apple decides who succeeds and who fails by
threatening to revoke companies' keys on a whim.

~~~
vorpalhex
Apple did that when Facebook was abusing enterprise signed apps and nobody
threw shade at Apple. There's a time and place for that, and this is it.

Now, if Apple revoked their cert because they didn't like Zooms view on <some
political issue> then I'd be ranting and raving with the rest of HN.

~~~
MacroChip
Ok thanks for the example. I hadn't heard of that, so I just briefly read
about it. It looked like there were clear terms about the Enterprise apps:
that it was for internal, employee use. Facebook was distributing it to non
employees. I imagine that is why there was little shade thrown.

------
bastawhiz
I really hope Zoom promptly fixes all these recent issues. I've used so many
video conferencing solutions. Vidyo was amazingly unreliable. BlueJeans had
the most amazingly awful interface I've ever encountered. P2P WebRTC solutions
get destroyed when there's more than a couple people on a call. Hangouts has
decent call quality but had spooky issues, like all parties joining a call,
but each appearing as if they're the only ones present.

Zoom is the only solution that's been decent for me. The UI for the desktop
client is a bit rough around the edges, but it's certainly not the worst. I'd
really like to continue to like Zoom but I can't do that if they're going to
do shady things or bungle security.

~~~
stcredzero
_The UI for the desktop client is a bit rough around the edges, but it 's
certainly not the worst._

It is the worst for giving presentations. I had practiced for giving a
presentation from my MacBook, and it was sprung on me when I arrived. Zoom "oh
so helpfully" pops down a control panel every time the mouse cursor approaches
the menus at the top of the screen. It also "oh so helpfully" puts itself into
fullscreen when I don't want it to do that.

As far as I'm concerned, the UX is bungled.

~~~
bastawhiz
Unfortunately the default settings aren't great. But if you've got the
patience to configure it (e.g., you're a remote employee) it's much more
tolerable.

~~~
stcredzero
So basically, you have to become a Zoom expert to make it good for
presentations? Funny, but Keynote hooked up to a projector or a screen just
works.

------
uj8efdkjfdshf
Seems like ZoomOpener automatically reinstalls the Zoom app if it is
uninstalled? [1]

[1][https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/201362983-How-
to-u...](https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/201362983-How-to-uninstall-
Zoom-on-a-Mac-)

~~~
stefan_
This support article was silently updated after the Zoom debacle. Google cache
has the old version, that doesn't mention removing their trojan:

[https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:QxuW6p...](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:QxuW6pW-
XjAJ:https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/201362983-How-to-uninstall-
Zoom-on-a-Mac-+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

>To uninstall any Mac App, see this article by Apple. Please also see
[http://www.wikihow.com/Uninstall-Programs-on-Mac-
Computers](http://www.wikihow.com/Uninstall-Programs-on-Mac-Computers)

------
sundayedition
Related?

[https://medium.com/@jonathan.leitschuh/zoom-zero-
day-4-milli...](https://medium.com/@jonathan.leitschuh/zoom-zero-
day-4-million-webcams-maybe-an-rce-just-get-them-to-visit-your-website-
ac75c83f4ef5)

------
PhasmaFelis
Could you explain the problem in words, please? Not in a position to watch a
video right now.

~~~
latexr
It’s a silent video of less than two minutes. It shows a user on macOS
quitting the Zoom app[1], dragging it to the Trash and emptying it. They stay
still for about one minute and fifteen seconds, at which point Zoom pops up on
the Dock again, opening its window.

[1]: This Zoom:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20387298](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20387298)

~~~
PhasmaFelis
Thanks! That was a lot quicker to read than watching the video.

~~~
fpalmans
Thank you everyone for this little thread. This is exactly what I am looking
for when I read the comments to a video link!

------
latexr
Between 00:15 and 01:30 it’s just waiting, so you might want to skip that
section if you’re only interested in seeing it happen.

------
mcdingle
Give this a try:

[https://www.objective-
see.com/products/blockblock.html](https://www.objective-
see.com/products/blockblock.html)

------
pxanyc
Are we sure they're not just using fleetsmith to install it and trolling all
of us with the zoom news going on?

------
KenanSulayman
Looks like a background self-update was in progress while it was deleted?

Or is there an official uninstaller, and Zoom simply tries to „fix“ itself
after the deletion-hook was invoked by MacOS? I can imagine plenty of people
wondering why Zoom doesn’t work after they „moved it“.

~~~
maloga
Very unlikely, because we've double-checked on a couple of machines at the
office here. Only on Mac though. Would be useful if we get some more
confirmations.

------
bwb
I am pretty confident the Zoom team can fix this and the other issues
mentioned in the great security article from yesterday. They seem to do good
stuff and I love how well it works.

~~~
sieabahlpark
Lol, is this a paid account? This seems to ignore just how bad this issue is.

~~~
bwb
Super bad issue, just merely voicing I think they will fix it. Everyone seems
to go into this shark feeding frenzy of how they are terrible and will never
fix it. I get tired of that shit and merely pointing out this is a well run
big company and they are going to fix it.

The mob mentality in these comments is overwhelming sometimes.

~~~
seieste
The question is not “Will it be fixed?” but “Why is it there In the first
place?” Given that the app makes a request to zipow.com to download the new
installer, the auto-reinstallation is not a bug or an issue, but an
intentional and anti-consumer design decision.

~~~
bwb
Yep but everyone in this community should know the answer there, we aren't
perfect, we don't think about everything and we make mistakes. Then you fix
them.

Too many people are just piling on without examining themselves and their own
work.

~~~
en-us
You're ignoring much of the story, such as the part where they ignored the
issue for months and then released a patch that they were told is ineffective.

So yes, we all make mistakes, and we should fix them promptly and correctly.
Zoom did neither, and then put out that nonsense PR blog.

There's no way I will trust that company again after how they handled this.

~~~
bwb
Not ignoring, but I've seen similar from many companies we all work for. Of
course, your criticism against them is fair too. And, I can also show you many
companies who haven't gotten their shit together in 90 to 120 days too.

Give them some time and I think they will fix this and fix the issues that
caused them to not catch this the first time and fix it as quickly as we would
all like.

~~~
seieste
If you go into the bathroom of a restaurant and see cockroaches, would you
feel comforted by management telling you to give them time, because they will
definitely get rid of them and to not be too worried that they haven't already
gotten rid of them?

~~~
bwb
Bad analogy :)

But you guys do what you want, I am getting tired of the mob mentality and
extremism that seems to permeate these and other discussions. Why not give
them some time and not adopt such an extreme position.

------
maxbaines
Luckily I use Pi Hole I just Blacklisted zoom.us and zipow.com

~~~
hnarn
Pi Hole only covers DNS queries though, right?

~~~
maxbaines
Yep, but from the original
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20387298](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20387298)
it looks like zoom uses zipow.com for re-install

