
Bitterness, Anger And Betrayal At MySpace - aaronbrethorst
http://techcrunch.com/2011/01/11/bitterness-anger-and-betrayal-at-myspace/
======
edw519
_As it turns out, Mr. Jones and his lieutenants knowingly used their
employees, working them hard, making them give up time with their friends and
families, knowing all along that no matter how hard they worked, and how
successful their efforts, many of them would be rewarded with layoffs._

Pardon me for being cynical, but just a little personal experience:

    
    
      BOSS:    "There will NOT be a layoff."
      REALITY:  There was a layoff.
      
      BOSS:    "There will be no more layoffs."
      REALITY: There were more layoffs.
      
      BOSS:    "This will be the last layoff."
      REALITY: There were more layoffs.
    
      BOSS:    "I will be the next person laid off."
      REALITY: He wasn't.  Someone else was.
      
      BOSS:    "I am instituting 35 hrs. pay for 40 hrs. work."
      REALITY: It lasted one pay period before the layoff.
      
      BOSS:    "The corporate jet will be the next thing to go."
      REALITY: The corporate jet was still in place after the layoff.
      
      BOSS:    "Customer XYZ will pay their bill next week."
      REALITY: Customer XYZ never paid their bill.  Layoff instead.
      
      BOSS:    "Finish this project and we're in the clear."
      REALITY: The project was finished.  Then came the layoff.
      
      BOSS:    "Indispensable employees will be spared."
      REALITY: No one was indispensable.
      
      BOSS:    "We made our numbers.  We'll be OK."
      REALITY: The SEC and IRS disagreed.  We went out of business.
      
      BOSS:    "U.S. manufacturing is solid and protected."
      REALITY: 400 jobs shipped to Haiti within 90 days.
      
      BOSS:    "A layoff will be the last resort."
      REALITY: Layoff + executive auto leases still in place.
      
      BOSS:    "I will promote you next week."
      REALITY: The company newsletter reported his girlfriend getting my job.
      
      BOSS:    "Just help me get through this and I will reward you."
      REALITY: I helped him get through it.  He didn't reward me.
      

Sorry to say, moral of the story:

    
    
      Q:  How can you tell if the boss is lying?
      A:  His mouth is moving.

~~~
DanielBMarkham
I've been a consultant most all of my life -- mainly because I don't trust
stock-price-driven companies to be honorable or to know what the heck they are
doing. I love all the people I've worked with: it's just the organizations and
business models they create that's so crazy.

The nice thing about being a consultant is that you do something they like,
they pay you. Repeat and rinse. Pretty soon you're out on the street looking
for a new gig. If they don't like you, you don't get paid (and you're on the
street quicker).

It's a very simple and easily understandable deal. And being on the street is
not the end of something or a failure -- it's a chance to go on an even
greater adventure.

I even had one government employee who had a high level job at a place we all
know tell me "Look. This is easy. You do all the work. Solve all the hard
problems. I'll take credit for it."

Sounded good to me. Finished the job early and went on to something else. He's
still there doing the same thing.

There are a lot of implied or assumed promises in corporate full-time jobs.
It's been my experience that you shouldn't trust any of them -- even from
people who are trying really hard to do the right thing. IT is just a business
where everything is always changing. It's not like any other business I've
ever seen

~~~
davidw
Consulting is like running though: the minute you get tired and stop a minute
or two, your velocity is gone - no more money coming in. A functioning
business is more like a bicycle - it's not like you're just along for the
ride, you have to work, but you can coast a little bit now and then. For
instance, vacations. That's true for both bosses and employees.

I enjoy consulting too, but it leaves me with the feeling of not building or
being part of something for the future... if that makes sense.

~~~
DanielBMarkham
Worst part about consulting (for me) was having to be gone from my family so
much -- and the lack of permanent friendships at work.

The part about not being able to slow down or you die? I actually like that
part. Technology is always changing, and I like the fact that I'm constantly
challenged to find real, solid value in what I'm learning or doing. Keeps me
on my toes. Although I freely admit it's not for everybody.

I coast by taking as much time as I want between gigs.

I have family members who are "normal" -- they want a 9-5 job, long-term
responsibilities and friendships, and they want to forget all about work when
they punch out. The don't want things to change, and they want promises they
can rely on for the future. They want somebody else to worry about things
changing. I respect that. I'm just not that way. I tell folks that consulting
has probably ruined me for life as far as ever being a useful company man.

~~~
davidw
I really get not wanting to do a 9-5, but on the other hand, the more I get
long-term responsibilities of my own, like a child, the more I think trying to
build a business of some kind is, long term, better than consulting, in terms
of doing stuff on your own terms.

As you age, you get more experience, but are less able to pound out tons of
code, and spend tons of time keeping up with the latest thing.

~~~
DanielBMarkham
I think you've just accurately described why I'm on HN so much and why I've
spent the last several years learning about startups instead of .NET 7.0

And also why I now help teams out instead of being the 18-hour code monkey.
Still love coding, but you reach the natural limits of these things and have
to move on. You also reach the point where you have to start thinking long-
term instead of short-term.

EDIT: I'd add that I'd much rather be the guy who knows a dozen different
languages and databases, has had experience in a lot of industries, and is
used to working hard and saving, yadda yadda -- I'd rather be that guy looking
to get into startups than the guy who took the 4-year degree, punched the
clock everyday for years, trusted his company to take care of him, and is now
wondering where his future went and whom to blame.

~~~
davidw
I think we pretty much agree: I think my writing is mostly to encourage
younger people to think about building something rather than just going off
into consulting.

------
johnrob
_He and his executive team had just somehow driven hundreds of people to work
hard for months, giving 20 hour days, even 48 hour sleepless stints..._

If put in more work than what your cash salary is worth, then you are
investing. And sometimes investors get no return. Invest with caution.

~~~
meterplech
Maybe, but this is in stark contrast to the courage of Pixar's bosses in
saving their employees that recently was on the front page. Easy to be cynical
about life in BigCorp and the vicissitudes of your bosses, but doesn't make it
any less wrong to treat people who trust you this way.

~~~
wmeredith
I think it's a telling contrast when compared against the success of the
respective companies.

------
billpaetzke
_And the hard working, loyal employees that worked their butts off...will be
looking for jobs._

If you're a MySpace engineer that was laid off, hit me up:
bpaetzke@leads360.com. I'm a software engineer at a .NET startup in El
Segundo, CA that's hiring.

~~~
RickRoll
Hahaha .NET /jk

------
DanielBMarkham
Three things:

1) I really feel for those guys. Technology is like that: one day you're on
top and the next day you're on the street

2) Work as hard as you can at something and never regret it. The only person
that can make you feel tricked into working 20-hour days is yourself. Don't do
that to yourself.

3) Bitterness isn't going to make it any better. Sucks to hear that, yes, but
what you need now most of all is a positive attitude and motivation to go out
and kick ass. Might take some time to get that back, but work on that instead
of chewing on what some C-level jerk is planning on doing or has done to a
company you're no longer with.

Thinking about my comments some, there's probably a very good reason I never
had a job as a counselor. Sometimes what folks really need is a beer and
somebody to complain to. Sadly, I'm probably not that guy.

------
mambodog
If anyone's interested, an engineer at Myspace who thought they were being
laid off (but turned out not to be) is doing an IAmA on Reddit:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/f09rk/iama_myspace_emp...](http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/f09rk/iama_myspace_employee_about_to_be_laid_off_today/)

------
lkozma
I know an engineer who was working in a failing company in post-communist
Eastern Europe. The decline of the company took more than a year, in which
time salaries were cut, sometimes pay was delayed for months or not given at
all, the owners were visibly transferring their personal wealth abroad (as
well as moving their family members). This engineer stayed at the company,
despite some good offers from elsewhere, to the point when heating was cut off
from the company and he had to sit in office in winter jacket, and in the last
weeks he brought printing paper from home. Finally the company went bankrupt
and he took the earlier job offer at a salary lower than what was offered
before.

Morale: watch out for signs of Stockholm syndrome, because it can be real.

------
staunch
These are some of the tamest allegations of corporate wrong doing ever made.
The worst of them is that Mike Jones waited to fire people as long as possible
instead of firing them in time for Christmas.

~~~
noibl
I hope the author of this 'email from a reader' gets a cut of the ad revenue
from its publication in whole, or they'll have two reasons to feel bitter.

TC--

------
shubber
It saddens me to reflect that every time I felt like a company was with was
failing, and that we might recover, ultimately, we failed. So, the most
rational advice I could give any employee would be: if you're invested in the
success of your employer, and they seem to be failing, leave. And the CEO
giving locker room inspirational speeches is the surest sign that it's time to
stroll on.

But, how does that square with the idea of pulling together and making any
endeavor work? Is the lesson to only be a founder? Morally, doesn't that mean:
never employ anyone?

I don't know, I just feel for those laid off this week. 'Cause is really
sucks.

------
pygy_
A living example of the MacLeod hierarchy and the Gervais Principle at play.
Psychopathic executives managed to groom their whole staff into clueless
lemmings to better abuse them.

The Gervais principle was defined by Venkat (Venkatesh Rao) in a series of
articles published in his blog. They should be well known around here, but
here they are for those who missed them. The insight of these essays is
amazing, and worth much more than the time it'll take you to read them.

.

__________

The Gervais Principle, Or The Office According to “The Office” ---
[http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-
principle-o...](http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-
the-office-according-to-the-office/)

The Gervais Principle II: Posturetalk, Powertalk, Babytalk and Gametalk ---
[http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/11/11/the-gervais-
principle-i...](http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/11/11/the-gervais-principle-ii-
posturetalk-powertalk-babytalk-and-gametalk/)

The Gervais Principle III: The Curse of Development ---
[http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/04/14/the-gervais-
principle-i...](http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/04/14/the-gervais-principle-
iii-the-curse-of-development/)

The Gervais Principle IV: Wonderful Human Beings ---
[http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/10/14/the-gervais-
principle-i...](http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/10/14/the-gervais-principle-iv-
wonderful-human-beings/)

.

_________

Related considerations by the same author.

.

The Genealogy of the Gervais Principle ---
[http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/02/04/the-genealogy-of-the-
ge...](http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/02/04/the-genealogy-of-the-gervais-
principle/)

Random Promotions and the Gervais Principle ---
[http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/12/13/random-promotions-
and-t...](http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/12/13/random-promotions-and-the-
gervais-principle/)

Conceptual Metaphors (Mashable), Gervais Principle (Fugitive Philosophy) ---
[http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/01/13/conceptual-metaphors-
ma...](http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/01/13/conceptual-metaphors-mashable-
gervais-principle-fugitive-philosophy/)

Two Interesting Gervais Principle Follow-Ups --
[http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/05/06/two-interesting-
gervais...](http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/05/06/two-interesting-gervais-
principle-follow-ups/)

------
bane
Something I learned early in my career, "never be any more loyal to your
company than your company can be loyal to you".

------
latch
People need to look out for themselves. You need to have your own thoughts on
the future of your company and your own thoughts on what is and isn't worth
doing.

~~~
trafficlight
Exactly. And who didn't see the demise of Myspace for the last couple of
years? Surely from the inside you'd be acutely aware of the situation.

------
nowarninglabel
Further proof of MySpace as a failed company is that one cannot delete one's
profile from the site without jumping through an exhaustive series of hoops
which culminates in adding the words "Delete my profile" to your profile.

~~~
benologist
Yes they should do what Facebook does, where you just click the big red delete
button on your profile and it's done!

~~~
nowarninglabel
I know this is sarcasm, but the point is not so much the profile deletion
itself. It's the user experience of the process. Normal user goes to remove
their Facebook profile, heck even I go to delete my Facebook profile, and sure
I haven't deleted it, but I'm left more or less neutral. Try deleting a
MySpace profile and see how you feel after the process.

------
xentronium
[http://techcrunch.com/2011/01/11/bitterness-anger-and-
betray...](http://techcrunch.com/2011/01/11/bitterness-anger-and-betrayal-at-
myspace/#comment-128121827) \-- there's a comment there which describes
myspace's acquisition as, well, a failure.

------
rwhitman
I've never worked for MySpace or Fox, but I've worked for folks who had just
come from MySpace / Fox and I have to say it was really apparent how ingrained
into the culture pulling all-nighters, working through weekends and holidays
etc was.

~~~
ladon86
And yet the rate of innovation was glacial. Hours aren't always the answer,
they might be the problem.

------
chrismealy
These guys knew they were working for Rupert Murdoch, right?

~~~
forensic
because General Electric or Disney would never do such a thing!

------
motters
This is MySpace's dot com moment. To me it seems highly unlikely, short of
pulling a rabbit out of a hat, that MySpace will survive for very much longer.
The niche which they occupied has been successfully colonised by Facebook, and
there are plenty of other sites where you can go to listen to and buy music,
or watch music videos.

------
redthrowaway
>Bitterness, Anger And Betrayal At MySpace

Sometimes you can just tell a Michael Arrington headline before you even
click.

------
trotsky
Really sounds strikingly similar to some of the management practices and
employee abuse that went down during the decline of TechCrunch's parent
company, AOL.

------
garrettgillas
Wow, this really made me feel terrible. I had no idea that that's how the deal
with the layoffs went down, but it all makes sense now after reading that.

------
sagarun
And the website myspace looks down to me. Is it?

