
PwC Hong Kong first Big Four firm to accept bitcoin - czl_my
http://economia.icaew.com/en/news/december-2017/pwc-hong-kong-first-big-four-firm-to-accept-bitcoin
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ckocagil
Here's a dilemma about the extremely bullish Bitcoin market: I would be happy
to get paid in Bitcoins, but do people want to pay in Bitcoins? Everyone I've
heard wants to hoard them ("hodl").

I only remember buying a single item with Bitcoins and that was because the
online store had difficulty with my credit card.

~~~
JepZ
We all want to get rich by hoarding money. The only difference is, that the
value of bitcoins compared to classical currencies is currently increasing.
And because the monthly increase is so high, so many want to join the game.

As soon as everybody has some bitcoins the bitcoin value increase should slow
down. At that point there would be no point in hoarding bitcoin more than any
other currency.

~~~
foepys
Every fiat currency is inflationary. Bitcoin is designed to be deflationary,
so every Bitcoin will be worth more and more forever. Using Bitcoin as a
currency makes no sense.

~~~
Frogolocalypse
Personally, I've grown quite accustomed to things becoming cheaper to buy. It
allows me to buy more things.

~~~
chii
yes, but when this happens enmass, the people making things are going to see
that nobody is buying their widgets, and go out of business before it becomes
cheap enough. Then their employees get fired, and now there's less things to
buy, with less people who have money to buy.

~~~
Frogolocalypse
In that theoretical world that punishes savers by telling stories of deflation
bogeymen, I'm sure. In the real world, I like beer, and when I want to buy a
beer, I buy a beer. Except now I can buy more beer, because my savings haven't
been debased.

~~~
emodendroket
A beer is one thing. Only a madman would take out a mortgage, auto loan, or
large business loan denominated in a rapidly deflating currency.

~~~
wyager
The interest rates would be correspondingly different. Look up the no-
arbitrage principle. It explains why all of these concerns are silly. If you
can’t be bothered to do that, just know that the general premise is “it all
works out”.

In particular, the risk-adjusted deflationary returns are already priced in to
the asset’s current price, so you can’t actually make any (time-discounted)
expected money just from holding on to a deflationary asset. You can, on the
other hand, _lose_ money by holding on to dollars, but only because its
utility from convenience sort of counteracts the deflationary loss of future
value (up to some small amount of dollars, at which point you start thinking
“I should buy stocks or something instead”).

~~~
emodendroket
> A situation in which all relevant assets are priced appropriately and there
> is no way for one's gains to outpace market gains without taking on more
> risk. Assuming an arbitrage-free condition is important in financial models,
> thought its existence is mainly theoretical.

Perhaps more to the point, we live in a world where governments can stimulate
investment in stocks by manipulating the interest rates of bonds and
maintaining steady inflation, and yet I am to believe that if, in effect, you
could collect interest with zero risk by just holding your money, it wouldn't
have any effect on the economy? Just as many people would be investing as in
the current situation, where if you do that you're losing money? It seems hard
to justify all the rhetoric about "war on savers" if that's the case. How does
the no-arbitrage principle actually explain this away?

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brucephillips
Serious question: How is BTC going to ever achieve the price stability
required for a currency?

~~~
brndnmtthws
Why are people so obsessed with stability? Prices can float freely.

~~~
brucephillips
Currencies, at least traditionally, are a store of value. You don't want
stores of values to be volatile.

Though I suppose the end game for BTC could be a transfer mechanism that no
one actually holds. It would still be subject to flash crashes, though.

~~~
lifty
Currencies are the store of value of poor people, because unfortunately they
don't have the sophistication to manage their wealth using assets that don't
loose their value. And that is unfortunate because they are taxed the most by
the continuous devaluation of currencies. Wealthy people avoid the devaluation
of their wealth through various sophisticated method, which leads to
increasing inequality. Of course, this is only one perspective in the nebulous
economic system.

~~~
brucephillips
I suppose directly most people don't store value in currencies, but
indirectly, they definitely do. Bonds are denominated in currency, and the
value of stocks are derived from companies that hold assets in largely cash
and bonds.

~~~
lifty
Perhaps a lot of people own houses too, but still, I think the majority of
people don't even own bonds or stocks (which can have a return). I think US
people are more sophisticated when it comes to using financial tools but my
impression is that in Europe most people have no clue about investing their
money besides buying a house. Hell, most of my peers in my generation barely
have any savings.

~~~
emodendroket
Around half of Americans own stock. [http://news.gallup.com/poll/190883/half-
americans-own-stocks...](http://news.gallup.com/poll/190883/half-americans-
own-stocks-matching-record-low.aspx)

> my impression is that in Europe most people have no clue about investing
> their money besides buying a house. Hell, most of my peers in my generation
> barely have any savings.

If there are more Americans in the stock market it's probably because the
American social safety net is very weak.

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seibelj
But why would an accounting company accept fake internet bubble money that
obviously has no value? /s

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Because, if they can quickly convert it to real money, they're hopefully safe.

~~~
topranks
Typically retailers who accept Bitcoin do just that.

PWC don't charge "cup of coffee" money for anything so I guess accepting
bitcoin could work for them, despite the high transaction fees.

~~~
Frogolocalypse
Bitcoin fees are pennies. I paid 25c for a txn yesterday, and that's just
because i didn't want to wait a week for the chain commit, which normally i
couldn't care less about. The value of bitcoin is already greater compared to
the amount i transferred + the txn fee.

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kaching
I am a Hongkonger, please listen to my advice:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y1o_DblVmA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y1o_DblVmA)
Cryptocurrencies will be another bubble story.

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djellybeans
I think EY Switzerland was actually the first.

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bhtru
People don't consider EY Switzerland as one of the "Big Four". You're right
though EY Switzerland did this same move roughly one year ago.

