
Instacart’s gig workers are planning a nationwide strike - gcheong
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/4agmvd/instacarts-gig-workers-are-planning-a-massive-nationwide-strike
======
woofie11
I would rather pay a higher delivery fee and (1) have enough workers to
deliver my goods (2) Have them (and me) protected adequately.

The whole way delivery works is broken right now.

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _I would rather pay a higher delivery fee_

In New York, we have Caviar [1][2], a mid-tier to premium food-delivery
company. They differentiated based on premium food. I haven't heard any
complaints from their delivery staff, though this may be on account of their
size.

Is there a premium player in the grocery delivery business? Something like
FreshDirect, but with better service?

[1] [https://www.trycaviar.com](https://www.trycaviar.com)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square,_Inc.#Caviar_restaurant...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square,_Inc.#Caviar_restaurant_delivery_service)

~~~
untog
> I haven't heard any complaints from their delivery staff, though this may be
> on account of their size.

This is probably the key part. Does Caviar pay their drivers more than other
sites? The cynic in me suggests that no, they don’t. Maybe, maybe, they get
better tips as a result of delivering premium food.

~~~
faeyanpiraat
In my experience as a food courier, tipping amount do not correlate with the
category of food delivered. You could get tipped more for a hamburger than a
sushi.

In fact the only correlation I've noticed is when the recipient seems like a
decent person, combined with you having to go trough an extraordinary amount
of trouble, like getting on a hill at the edge of the city, or having to
navigate trough a confusing maze in a giant office complex.

But then again sometimes you deliver in the night trough a thunderstorm an
orbital amount of stuff for a party, and get nothing.

------
jefftk
Unfortunately for these workers, with the unprecedented spike in unemployment
[1] I suspect Instacart will be able to find a lot of desperate people willing
to cross the picket line.

[1]
[https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ICSA](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ICSA)

~~~
joejohnson
The Instacart workers should encourage any scabs to instead join the strike so
they can work together to demand better wages and conditions.

~~~
aleksaxyz
How do they find these new workers? Wait for them out at the grocery stores?

~~~
mcgoo
Picketing?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picketing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picketing)

~~~
alasdair_
The workers that would be picketing don’t work for the supermarkets. The
people that own the supermarkets will tell the picketers to get lost.

------
ivanonymous
These workers would be dependent contractors in Germany or Canada, I think.
Defining that in-between category in the US would allow for some useful
compromises. Especially because full employee comes with so much baggage here,
e.g. health insurance.

[https://www.wolfbaldwin.com/articles/small-business-
articles...](https://www.wolfbaldwin.com/articles/small-business-articles/the-
case-for-the-dependent-contractor/)

~~~
aeyes
Instacart operates in Canada and from what I hear it's pretty much the same as
in the US.

------
bogomipz
From the Instacart post linked in the article:

>"As we previously shared, we’re offering up to 14 days of pay for any hourly
employee or full-service shopper who is diagnosed with COVID-19 or placed in
individual mandatory isolation or quarantine, as directed by a local, state,
or public health authority."[1]

So there is no benefits for workers who develop symptoms and self isolate?
This statement reads like you have to go a hospital and be fortunate enough to
be able to get a test. In many hotspots there is a shortage of tests. There
also seems to be any mention of providing hand sanitizer, gloves, masks etc to
these workers.

If you read the "previously shared" link in the above it states:

>"All Instacart part-time employees now have access to sick pay, an accrued
benefit that can be used as paid time off if you are absent from work due to
illness or injury. We’ve previously offered sick pay in select states — now,
all part-time employees across North America, including in-store shoppers,
will be able to accrue sick time to use as needed in the event that they
become ill. All sick pay accrual will be backdated from the start of the year,
so all hours worked by our in-store shoppers since then will count towards
their current, individual sick pay balance."

An "accrued" benefit that will be backdated to the beginning of the year(we're
only in month 3 of the year.)I'm guessing this would yield maybe 2 or 3 days
max. That barely puts a dent into two weeks of self-isolation and no work.

This all rings quite hollow.

[1] [https://medium.com/shopper-news/shopper-health-safety-
update...](https://medium.com/shopper-news/shopper-health-safety-update-
ec518ad3841c)

~~~
claudeganon
It’s a joke. I know people who have been to the ER with severe symptoms who
were turned away without testing (mostly because they’re young and “expected”
to recover).

Every company that’s using testing as a precondition for benefits, when
testing has been widely reported to be unavailable, is despicable.

~~~
briandear
I went to Stanford last weekend with a slight fever and sore throat and was
tested and had results in about 16 hours. You could go right now and get
tested there if you have symptoms. It’s an anecdote, sure, but the idea that
people can’t get tested isn’t completely true.

~~~
eli_gottlieb
I'm in Boston, and AFAIK there's nowhere I can get a test without having
severe symptoms that require hospitalization.

~~~
rwbhn
Work for a hospital system in Boston and can confirm - testing guidelines here
remain quite strict.

~~~
eli_gottlieb
I donated blood at MGH yesterday, which is how I checked. I'm just hoping to I
don't fall down ill in two weeks' time from having set foot, even masked and
hand-sanitized, in a hospital.

------
peterwwillis
Other delivery services don't have the problems of Instacart. My CSA delivers
me a custom food order once a week. They leave a box at my door, stand across
the street, call me, and wait until I come out and grab it. And their workers
are getting paid fairly. And they don't screw over local businesses. And they
get me what I actually ordered. I just have to wait a whooole week for this
amazing convenience, and pay less than Instacart charges for delivery.

Gig working will continue to exploit businesses, workers, and consumers until
we solve the problem that made it a viable business model: income inequality.

If people didn't need multiple part time jobs to survive, they wouldn't be
working these terrible conditions. And when that stops, businesses (like
restaurants) will also stop being abused by predatory gig-fueled companies
(like grubhub). And if people didn't need to make extra cash with Uber,
there'd be enough tax money to fund better public transit, which further
levels the economic playing field.

------
samename
It’s great that gig workers were included in the CARE bill. Hopefully this
starts a trend of more bills including protections for gig workers. I fully
support these workers striking for basic rights.

~~~
toomuchtodo
> It’s great that gig workers were included in the CARE bill.

This was specifically advocated for by Senator Sanders. He threatened to
tighten the restrictions even further on the $500 billion bailout of
corporations if this condition was not met.

[https://twitter.com/RespectableLaw/status/124303461436252569...](https://twitter.com/RespectableLaw/status/1243034614362525696)

~~~
granzymes
Is there a source for this that isn't random twitter accounts?

Looking at the Senate record[0] I can't see anything about the Senator and
there doesn't seem to be any news coverage of his involvement in the bill
other than the fact that he missed procedural votes for the initial draft.

[0] [https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-
bill/354...](https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/3548)

~~~
jkestner
I’m sure a lot of negotiations are not done on the record—that’s how it
works—but here’s a clip of Sanders advocating:
[https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4863928/user-clip-corona-
viru...](https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4863928/user-clip-corona-virus-bill)

~~~
granzymes
The negotiations were certainly not on the record, but we know who was at the
table from reporting and where many provisions came from.

* Senators Hoeven and Stabenow secured the $9.5 billion and other aid for the agricultural industry.

* Senators Thune and Warner pushed for the new tax benefit for employers helping employees pay off student loans.

* Senator Shelby got a cap on funds being used for dredging work on harbors removed.

* Senator Leahy ensured every state got a minimum of $1.5 billion in funds so small states weren't left out.

* Senator Booker got the Bureau of Prisons to making videoconferencing free for inmates.

Obviously Secretary Mnuchin and Senator Schumer did most of the heavy lifting.

I can't find anything about Senator Sanders, and that clip is from after the
unemployment provisions were already in the bill. The Senator didn't mention
anywhere in that speech that he pushed for the inclusion of the unemployment
provisions. He actually said "this isn't the bill I would have written," which
I personally would have followed up on with an explanation of what I did to
make the bill better if I had worked on it.

------
cameronfraser
Everlane workers tried to form a union and they were all fired
[https://twitter.com/EverlaneU/status/1243615472307695618](https://twitter.com/EverlaneU/status/1243615472307695618)

When there are a ton of people looking for work it is not really a good time
to be striking

~~~
taylorlapeyre
Speaking as a former employee with many friends on the front lines of this
event, the lay-offs have very little to do with the team that (previously)
wanted to unionize, and much more to do with COVID financial impact and the
retail team, of which many many more are now out of a job (vs the team where
some percentage of the members previously wanted to unionize).

Whoever the person running that account is, they are not interested in you
knowing all of the facts. I assure you.

~~~
cameronfraser
Interesting, did not know that. There is a reddit thread in malefashionadvice
you may want to comment on as well as there is no contradicting perspective
there.

~~~
taylorlapeyre
The amount of vitriol directed at Everlane for this Union thing is astounding.

There never was a union. Some people on the team wanted to form one, but most
did not. It caused huge cultural issues and tension across the team, and the
pro-union employees were very loud and went to VICE pretty much any time they
had any minor complaint about the company (which VICE would of course eat
right up).

Now Everlane is being framed as union-busting... when it was their own
employees that couldn’t form or didn’t want a union. Everlane has always been
fine with it, if that’s what the team wanted.

------
claudeganon
Sending these people into work, in the middle of a pandemic, without
appropriate protective gear, health benefits, or paid time off is criminal and
I’m glad they’re organizing to protect themselves. Hopefully other frontline
employees in grocery and delivery services will follow suit.

~~~
imgabe
Many grocery stores already have strong unions.

Nobody is "sending in" gig workers. Isnt the whole point of gig work that the
worker can choose whether to pick up a gig and go in or not?

~~~
diob
Do you have any proof of "grocery stores already have strong unions"?
Genuinely wondering how you've concluded this.

~~~
toomuchtodo
[http://www.ufcw.org/grocery/](http://www.ufcw.org/grocery/)

It's a strong grocers union, but does not cover Instacart and other gig
workers.

~~~
diob
Thanks for the example, looked into them a bit. Sounds like they're
negotiating for some benefits amid the current pandemic:
[http://www.ufcw.org/coronavirus/workers/](http://www.ufcw.org/coronavirus/workers/)

Wishing them the best of luck.

That's unfortunate that they don't cover gig workers. A good chunk of our
employment is now in "gig work".

------
bdcravens
The organization behind this, Gig Workers Collective, was only formed last
month.

[https://techcrunch.com/2020/02/10/gig-workers-
collective/](https://techcrunch.com/2020/02/10/gig-workers-collective/)

I have a hard time believing in such a short time they were able to organize
anything resembling a majority.

~~~
mandelbrotwurst
From the article: “Vanessa and I have been organizing for four years,” Clarke
said.

------
jariel
America has created quite a lot of terrible, low paying and unsustainable jobs
that also externalize a lot of risk to staffers.

It's great for consumers via low prices, and investors via returns.

But it's a problem on the whole.

Sadly, I feel if these people were paid a decent wage, the price would be high
enough the market would be tiny.

I'm not sure if the long-run economics add up very well here.

------
_bxg1
Imagine the capitalistic (!) opportunities that would exist if we had
universal healthcare and basic safety-nets. "Gig economy" jobs could actually
function as a reasonable and real system for working, instead of being
something dystopian and abusive. As a society we've hung so many things off of
this framework of "being an employee" (healthcare, retirement, the ability to
_not_ work for a small part of the year), that there's no room for any other
paradigm without having people forego fundamental needs. Unfortunately times
are dire enough that people do so anyway, but that's a separate question.

------
jessaustin
Should I be happy that I've never used one of these VC-driven delivery
services?

I'm certainly not tempted to do so now.

------
smabie
A prisoner's dilemma, and let me tell you, everyone is going to defect. My
money is on the strike never happens.

------
sabujp
instacart.com and sameday.costco.com are "down" ("We're taking a lot of orders
right now") - please check back soon. Good luck with your workers!

------
ccktlmazeltov
Will they raise their pay as well?

I know I'll get downvoted for exposing my point of view, but I'm one of the
many people who do not tip the delivery man, so I really hope that they obtain
better wages from their employers.

~~~
everybodyknows
Society might be better if tipping were not baked into the system, but there
it is: wage scales, labor and tax codes have completed normalization of
tipping, at least in the US.

Your principled act of rebellion will produce not reform of commercial
culture, but only distress for those who serve you -- and for yourself.

~~~
ccktlmazeltov
that's your point of view, and obviously not mine. If everybody stopped
tipping people would refuse to continue working in these conditions.

------
ilaksh
I think it's awful what is happening to Instacart and many other workers.

I hope that eventually there will be successful push back. That may be part of
what Bernie Sanders' movement is about.

But I think that within a decade or so the reality is that we will have more
advanced robots (combined with warehouses designed for automation) that can do
most of these jobs, including driving and delivery. Not saying it isn't
incredibly challenging or that we are anywhere close, but there is progress
and also massive, massive financial incentive.

At some point UBI will be the obvious option to everyone. It seems obvious to
me that income should not start at absolute zero even now.

------
sabujp
Instacart's Web UI does not work. The search feature is completely broken and
always shows a picture of the sad milk bottle, as is the update cart feature
(before the shopper starts shopping) where you can search for an item and add
it to your cart. I tried the same update cart feature in the app and while it
is able to find items, tapping add to cart just shows the button depress
animation and the item never gets added to the cart.

Not only that, they're using enterprise signed ios apps for their shoppers and
deliverers which requires them to do the settings -> trust app thing to run
the app. Seems similar to what made Apple revoke Google and FBs enterprise
cert for a while, very sketchy. You're only supposed to use enterprise signed
apps for actual employees. It seems these "gig workers" aren't considered
actual employees by the company but when it comes to abusing the cert it's ok?
Apple should revoke their cert until they get an actual deliverer/shopper app.

Edit: Seems I've angered some Instacart folks, care to respond about the
issues on the web ui, app, and usage of the enterprise cert for signing your
deliverer/shopper app?

~~~
throwaway2019B
I imagine you're being downvoted because your comment is incredibly irrelevant
to the matter being discussed.

~~~
sabujp
it's slightly relevant

