
A high-carb diet may explain why Okinawans live so long - fraqed
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20190116-a-high-carb-diet-may-explain-why-okinawans-live-so-long
======
dbingham
For the love of all that is holy, can we please just admit that our current
methods for studying nutrition _do not work_, that we need better ways to
handle this sort of complex system, and the mean time, the best knowledge we
have about what constitutes a healthy diet really can just be summed up as
"eat food, not too much, mostly plants". The head spinning speed with which
new "scientifically supported" diet announcements come out -- which almost
always contradict each other -- is almost certainly contributing to the
undermining of the lay person's trust in science at this point.

We need to stop it, stop trying to apply clearly mismatched tools to this
problem and reconsider our whole approach.

~~~
nonbel
The idea of "mostly plants" was arrived at using the same methods you don't
seem to trust. Why are you ok with that one?

~~~
dbingham
A couple of reasons, it's the only thing that does seem to consistently match
across all the studies. Though, there are plenty of counter examples of
cultures that have an almost all meat diet and are perfectly healthy, there
are other factors involved in those cultures that don't apply to your average
first world eater -- the meat is mostly wild caught for instance.

The other one is environmental efficiency. While I don't buy that a vegan diet
is the most sustainable diet -- there are sustainable agro-ecology systems
that include meat by necessity to make them work, and the vegan diet relies
heavily on certain monocrops that massively damage the planet in their own
right -- it does seem pretty clear that we cannot continue to consume meat at
the rate it is consumed in the western diet and stay sustainable.

The other thing is that it's a really broad guideline, not a specific
prescription. As a broad guideline for health and sustainability for those
living in western culture, it seems pretty reasonable.

~~~
fpoling
In Mongolia people eat only meat from horses, sheep and camels. Mongolia is at
the top charts regarding the dearth from heart deceases and cancers especially
the liver cancer. And this is in a population that was exposed to this diet
for thousands of years and where the meat comes from the most humanely treated
animals.

One may argue that the statistics is biased towards people from cities where
doctors have a better chance of diagnosing the causes of dearth and where
people eat much more processed meat than in rural areas, but then the average
lifespan in Mongolia has been increasing despite people moving to the cities.
In addition there is a small population of ethnic Russian who moved to
Mongolia 100 years ago after the revolution. They show the same patterns of
deceases.

Disclaimer - I am vegan for ethical reasons.

~~~
pakitan
Yet, somehow, Mongolians seem to have a slightly higher life expectancy than
Indians, who generally subsist on plant-based diets.

------
grardb
As a vegan who is constantly seeing anti-vegan (or pro-keto) sentiment on HN,
it's nice to see a post about a Blue Zone[1].

Interestingly, the Okinawans eat a different sweet potato from the one shown.
It's appropriately named the Okinawa sweet potato, and it's purple on the
inside, due to having a high antioxidant content similar to blueberries[2].

These are not to be confused with sweet potatoes that are purple on the
_outside_ , and often confusingly called Asian sweet potatoes or Japanese
sweet potatoes[3].

If you live near an Asian market, you should try looking for the Okinawa sweet
potato (I get mine from a Chinese place near my home in LA). It has a very
different taste and texture. I personally like to cut them up, steam them, and
throw them into a food processor. They develop an interesting pasty texture
which I quite like.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Zone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Zone)

[2] [https://www.downtoearth.org/health/nutrition/okinawan-
sweet-...](https://www.downtoearth.org/health/nutrition/okinawan-sweet-potato-
purple-powerhouse-nutrition)

[3] [https://paleoleap.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/japanese-
sw...](https://paleoleap.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/japanese-sweet-
potatoes.jpg)

~~~
ianai
Do you have anymore recipes for them? I think I’ll stop at an Asian grocery
today. But I live off easy recipes.

~~~
grardb
Honestly, I love sweet potatoes so much that I don't really use them in
_recipes_ , per se. I almost always just eat them as-is, completely on their
own!

There was one time I made mini sweet potato pies with the Okinawa variety
inside a muffin tin, and another time when I made a cheesecake (vegan) that
incorporated them. Obviously not healthy, but it was the holidays, hah.

I think in general, tasting them on their own and figuring out what pairs well
is your best bet. I think like "typical" (orange) sweet potatoes, they have
that sweet-flavor-but-works-really-well-with-savory-foods property.

As for the Asian/Japanese variety: those are my absolute favorite, and I only
ever eat them completely plain, on their own. I just cut them up, steam, and
eat. So delicious, although I suspect they're not quite as nutritious as the
orange variety, but it's usually hard to find information on less well-known
cultivars.

Also! I should've mentioned this, but if anyone is searching for the Okinawa
variety and can't find them, there's another purple sweet potato called the
Stokes Purple sweet potato[1]. I have never seen them in person and have no
idea how they taste, but I would bet they're not _too_ different.

[1] [https://www.friedas.com/stokes-purple-sweet-
potato/](https://www.friedas.com/stokes-purple-sweet-potato/)

~~~
ianai
Do you have a quick low mess way to steam them somehow?

I lucked out and my local grocery had Japanese sweet potatoes today.

~~~
grardb
No way in particular. I just have a steam basket for my big pot, which kinda
looks like this:
[https://image.sportsmansguide.com/adimgs/l/2/231755_ts.jpg](https://image.sportsmansguide.com/adimgs/l/2/231755_ts.jpg)

I just throw in the pieces (about 1-2 bites each in terms of size). Sometimes
I pile them up all the way to the top! They're pretty strong, so they don't
get squished or anything. Cleanup is super easy.

Alternatively, boiling works just as well. I personally just find steaming to
be faster (both in cooking and the retrieval of the food), it uses less water,
and it eliminates the possibility of waterlogging them.

------
MarsAscendant
Highlights from the article, pertaining to the Okinawans' lifestyle and diet:

* little smoking among population

* strong social bonds → observed to be beneficial to bodily defence against stress

* high engagement in agriculture and fishing jobs → high physical activity

* possible effects of genetics — high presence of FOXO3 gene

* 10-to-1 carbs-to-protein comsumption ratio, like in other particularly-long-lived populations – linked studies support the conclusion, though too early to judge definitively

* sweet potato, rather than rice, is high-consumption food in the Okinawan diet

* most of the diet is vegetables and fruits; meats and fish are rare

* calorie consumption is, on average, 13% lower than general population

* it is suggested that past the age of 65, protein consumption should increase

* studies suggest that plant-based protein intake have a more positive effect on the human organism than meat- and fished-based

* their diet is not the "elixir of youth", as multiple interacting factors may be in play

~~~
galangalalgol
The article mentions isolation leading to unique genetics but then ignores the
obvious conclusion that the ideal diet for them is also unique to those
genetics. We know there are different dietary adaptations in different
populations why do we keep looking for the one trusted diet? That said the
lack of stress in this population is almost certainly universally applicable.

------
Geee
Or, they don't report their elderly dead to collect their pension. There has
been stories about this: [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-
pacific-11258071](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-11258071)

~~~
nonbel
That would be funny: "High carb diets explain pension scams".

------
youeseh
I suspect that staying slim and trim leads to longevity, regardless of diet,
be it high carb or high fat.

~~~
thrav
\+ Socially active and supported

------
nonbel
> _" Despite the popularity of the Atkins and Paleo diets, however, there is
> minimal evidence that high-protein diets really do bring about long-term
> benefits. So could the “Okinawan Ratio” – 10:1 carbohydrate to protein –
> instead be the secret to a long and healthy life?"_

In the low-carb diet you are mostly replacing calories from carbs with
calories from fat. Not sure why they are focused on this carb to protein
ratio.

> _" The traditional Okinawan diet is therefore dense in the essential
> vitamins and minerals - including anti-oxidants - but also low in calories.

[...]

For this reason, some scientists believe that Okinawans offer more evidence
for the life-enhancing virtues of a “calorie restricted” diet."_

Well, the benefit of low-carb is that you crave less food so naturally
"calorie-restrict" relative to a high carb diet. So if they are accomplishing
this another way it all makes sense (they mention some genetic factors in
tfa).

~~~
GreaterFool
Also, there's good food and there's bad food. It's hard to find something that
you could label 'keto' that's downright terrible (once big food catches on I'm
sure there's gonna be a ton of awful 'keto' food).

I spend a lot of time in Japan and US. In Japan food is simple, unprocessed,
healthy. When I come to US and even though I eat well the food feels like glue
in my stomach. And everything has horrible carbs in it. Salads? So much sugar
I can barely eat them. Meat? Laced with sugar.

I wouldn't mind carbs from vegetables but they get mixed in this sugary
garbage and then people come out and say "carbs are good for you" and then you
end up fat and unhealthy.

Also, when I eat carbs I simply don't feel so good. Keto has been great so I'm
going to stick to it.

I don't mind going off-keto but I won't touch anything with added sugar. Go to
Whole Foods and look at kombucha. Why does it need a ton of sugar? It's hard
to find _one_ that doesn't. Or that "healthy" cucumber something something
kale juice? Ton of sugar. Yuck.

~~~
danans
> Go to Whole Foods and look at kombucha. Why does it need a ton of sugar?

It needs to ferment in order to become Kombucha, which requires sugar.

~~~
nightski
While true it's a very grey area in how the sugar is reported. It's not clear
whether they are reporting macronutrients pre or post fermentation.
Ferementation in kombucha is particularly efficient from what I understand and
the residual sugars after fermentation are not significant. So it's unclear
whether the high carb count is due to sugars added pre-fermentation or if they
are only including sugar added post fermentation to make it sweet.

~~~
GreaterFool
There are too many with added sugar, presumably to make it "taste better" for
sugar addicted populace. You can find some with low sugar content, generally
ginger flavored.

But its the same with everything. Cucumber juice, watermelon juice, this and
that, most bottled teas, etc. Sugar, sugar, sugar. Everywhere.

In Japan I can go to convenience store and buy dozens of drinks with no sugar.

Or electrolyte supplements. No sugar versions are much harder to find!

------
watertom
The world is breaking down into name calling and finger pointing. I'm
surprised humans ever got out of the dark ages, hell I'm surprised that we
stopped flinging poop at each other, well technically it is what is happening
with the Internet and Social media.

Move to Okinawa, live their life and eat their way and lets see what happens.

Not everything works for everyone. I tried eating vegetarian for almost a year
then I got stricter and switched to vegan for 6 months because being a
vegetarian wasn't working for me. The worst 18 months of my life. I was eating
a well balanced diet, watching vitamins and mineral intake, my hair started
falling out, by skin looked horrible. I became a vegetarian because I was
75lbs overweight, with high blood pressure. When eating a calorie restricted
vegetarian/vegan diet and lifting weights and doing cardio I managed to gain
weight and my blood pressure never improved.

I switched to Keto, my hair recovered, my skin looks fantastic, I have energy
I'm sleeping better, my job performance is much better, and without eating a
calorie restricted diet I've lost 60lbs in 9 months and my blood pressure is
normal, all without exercising. I'm now starting to lift weight again.

People are different. If you don't try to tell me that keto doesn't work for
me I won't you that the Okinawian diet doesn't work for them, or that being a
vegan/vegetarian doesn't work for you.

------
jahaja
The ever changing field of diets must be the most shining example of the
infinite need for people to come up with theories to justify their own quirky
believes.

------
ummonk
They buried the lede. It isn't a high carb diet, but a low calorie diet with
10:1 carb to protein ratio. A more accurate description would be "low protein"
diet. While carbs might make up a higher proportion of their calories, in
absolute terms it's definitely not a high carb diet.

------
peter_retief
To try and sell a high carbohydrate diet based on this isolated community is
disingenuous. "They eat an abundance of green and yellow vegetables – such as
the bitter melon – and various soy products. Although they do eat pork, fish
and other meats, these are typically a small component of their overall
consumption, which is mostly plant-based foods." In other words they eat a
nutrient rich diet, not high carbohydrate as implied (They eat little rice
which is high carbohydrate.) They are small in stature that implies an
evolutionary response to food shortages. Questions I have are do they use
"naturally" fermented soya? do they walk a lot? Alcohol? Interesting read even
though I dont buy the titles narrative

------
GeekyBear
There are important health differences between refined carbohydrates and
carbohydrates that are naturally very high in dietary fiber like sweet
potatoes.

[https://www.webmd.com/food-
recipes/features/carbohydrates](https://www.webmd.com/food-
recipes/features/carbohydrates)

Sure, refined carbohydrates (and sugar) are empty calories that are better
avoided if you want to lose weight.

Foods rich in fiber like sweet potatoes, oatmeal, whole grains, peas, and
beans contain carbohydrates, but are nonetheless healthy foods you should be
eating.

------
magic_beans
> Genetic good fortune could be one important factor. Thanks to the geography
> of the islands, Okinawa’s populations have spent large chunks of their
> history in relative isolation, which may has given them a unique genetic
> profile. Preliminary studies suggest this may include a reduced prevalence
> of a gene variant – APOE4 – that appears to increase the risk of heart
> disease and Alzheimer’s.

Their high-carb diet has nothing to do with Okinawan longevity. Genes are the
most important factor.

This article is ridiculous click-bait.

~~~
scottlocklin
Do Okinawans who emigrate to, say, America show similar longevity?

Virtually all articles on longevity and diet are click bait.

~~~
tmm84
Well, they do have evidence of Japanese emigrating to Hawaii and getting
standard US health problems. Also when US fast food became popular in Okinawa
the young people who ate it regularly developed US health problems. (Plenty of
videos on YouTube about this as well as articles.)

It is about what you absorb instead of what you put in mouth.

