
Tell HN: Oracle now requires you to login when you try to download JRE - dmitriid
Oracle now requires you to create an account and login when you try to download JRE from the JRE download page at https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.oracle.com&#x2F;technetwork&#x2F;java&#x2F;javase&#x2F;downloads&#x2F;jre8-downloads-2133155.html
======
taftster
This was part of the master plan and roadmap for Java for a long time now.
This should not be a surprise or cause any outrage. The roadmap was:

1\. Oracle starts to relicense as open source most parts of the JVM, spinning
off OpenJDK in the process.

2\. Oracle provides support, patches, community and endeavors to help get
OpenJDK self-sustaining.

3\. Once OpenJDK is maintained by the open source community and generally
healthy, Oracle starts working on proprietary value-add additions that can
benefit their customer base (and bank accounts).

We're entering phase 3. Oracle, beyond what you might think of them, has done
a pretty decent job of following the overall plan. They have helped get the
OpenJDK community off the ground and are still invested in its success.

Without doing the above, there was real risk that Java would succumb to other
more open platforms or be splintered off by companies like IBM, Redhat, etc.
Instead, the above plan allowed for Oracle to keep the core of Java in one
piece, conceding that other companies would help with its evolution, and still
reserve their ability to make a buck later.

It's a little shaky right now with all the hubbub about Oracle's licensing of
the Oracle JVM. The messaging could have possibly been better. But if you
haven't been aware of the OpenJDK and following along with it - if your sole
source of all things Java has been Oracle - then it's definitely time for a
wake up call.

Oracle is now a member of the Java community, not necessarily the driver.

~~~
fierarul
> Oracle is now a member of the Java community, not necessarily the driver.

I agree that, all in all, Oracle told the world what it's going to do and now
is executing on the plan. It's no surprise really, and it makes sense that
they want to make money somehow from Java considering how much they are
putting into it.

Still, Oracle is most certainly the driver still. If you look at a chart like
[1] you see that Oracle has an order of magnitude more commits than the 2nd
company which, surprise, is SAP.

Also, if you read the OpenJDK bylaws [2] the OpenJDK Lead will forever be from
Oracle as will the Board Chair. Oracle will never lose under a Two-Thirds
Majority rule when they have 2 of the 5 seats.

Note how AdoptOpenJDK could not run the TCK on the JDK builds which included
OpenJ9.

1\. [https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-group/building-
jdk-11...](https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-group/building-
jdk-11-together) 2\.
[https://openjdk.java.net/bylaws](https://openjdk.java.net/bylaws)

~~~
taftster
Yeah, good points and thanks for refuting my statement with precise
references.

I think I was just trying to be a little more generous or wishful with my
statement. Maybe I'm hoping that we are heading in a direction that doesn't
require Oracle in the lead. Right now, Java needs Oracle as much as ever. And
if Oracle continues to provide good leadership and does the right thing by
Java, then why not continue to have them in the lead? I'm happy they are there
and continue to provide good stewardship for Java.

I think the Java community could, if needed, fork Java completely away from
Oracle. This would be a major undertaking with a lot of pain, and would
definitely require other parties to get even more onboard. But at least now,
with the way things are set, this could start to be a possibility if we ever
needed it.

------
jplayer01
This is annoying.
[https://java.com/en/download/](https://java.com/en/download/) will give you
the download without signing in. But if you happen to be directed to
[https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/](https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/)
instead, say through a google search (which is the top search result on Google
for me), you have to login.

~~~
taftster
java.com will give you a JRE distribution only. e.g. all the parts that you
need to run java, not the parts that you need to develop it.

The oracle.com link that you refer to is the source for the Oracle JDK, which
includes the compiler, etc.

~~~
jplayer01
No, scroll down. It gives you the option to download the JRE as well, and
that's the one that requires a login. If this were some obscure link you had
to go out of your way to reach, it wouldn't be a big deal. However, depending
on the alignment of the moon and the sun, the link might be the top of the
Google search or it might be second or third. I refreshed a couple of times
and got slightly different results, it was always near the top though.

[https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jre...](https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jre8-downloads-2133155.html)

This is the direct link Google gives me and it's the one that requires a
login.

------
PedroBatista
Good for them, with some luck they'll even pull some Open Solaris to Solaris
to Death move.

Meanwhile: [https://adoptopenjdk.net/](https://adoptopenjdk.net/)

~~~
Krasnol
TIL!

Thank you it worked out pretty well for the application with which I've been
using it the most. Never seen it starting so fast.

Are there any downsides to this?

~~~
taftster
The Oracle JVM and the OpenJDK JVM (as provided by AdoptOpenJDK and friends)
are for all practical purposes identical. There was a time when OpenJDK was
still young that you'd probably prefer the Oracle JVM. But since maybe 5-7
years now, the Oracle JVM is basically composed of the OpenJDK plus some
additional Oracle licensed features that don't affect many/most applications.

In short, use the OpenJDK for your project. There are no real downsides for
98% of applications. AdoptOpenJDK is a great source, or likewise vendors like
Redhat who are also maintaining OpenJDK distributions.

~~~
Krasnol
Thank you. I'll keep it :)

------
tyingq
Probably not a bad idea since the Oracle JRE/JDK is not free to use. It helps
push people to OpenJDK distributions.

~~~
Someone1234
How does that work in practice?

If I google "Java Runtime" I get Oracle's site, mirrors of Oracle's site, then
very sketchy sites claiming to offer similar (which I can only assume are
malware). That's the first page of Google's results.

How are people meant to find and use these alternatives?

~~~
taftster
Agreed. It's going to take awhile for the search indexes to start offering
better OpenJDK sources. As Oracle has moved its version of the JVM to a
paid/registration model, the marketing and awareness of other alternatives are
somewhat catching up.

So here you go:

AdoptOpenJDK - supported by a number of commercial companies and individuals
committed to keeping the OpenJDK environment easy to use and integrate. Get
your Mac, Windows and Linux JVMs here.
[https://adoptopenjdk.net/](https://adoptopenjdk.net/)

Redhat - Maintaining the JVM long term support versions for their
distributions, which includes inclusion by CentOS, etc.

Apt/Debian/Ubuntu - I'm not totally sure who is maintaining the Apt version,
but Ubuntu and others have the LTS version of the JVM available as well.

~~~
tyingq
Also, Amazon Corretto, supports Windows, Macs, and Linux.
[https://aws.amazon.com/corretto/](https://aws.amazon.com/corretto/)

~~~
toyg
Also Zulu, by Azul: [https://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu-
community/](https://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu-community/)

------
zokier
Only old versions of Oracle binaries require login, the current version (12)
does not, either on
[https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jdk...](https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jdk12-downloads-5295953.html)
or [https://jdk.java.net/12/](https://jdk.java.net/12/)

~~~
taftster
I wouldn't quite say "old versions" \- it's possibly better to say LTS
versions (long term support). The LTS versions are what Oracle is requiring
registration/payment for now; so if you want to stay on the "Java 8 Oracle
JVM", you'll have to pay for that privilege.

Or alternatively, you can get a LTS version from another vendor based on the
OpenJDK source. For example, AdoptOpenJDK or your Linux distribution.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
Basically, Java is suffering from the Windows XP problem right now. Nobody
supported anything above Java 8, so everyone's still trying to use it, and
Oracle's done with giving it out for free.

~~~
toyg
Ish. This move would have eventually happened even if the community had jumped
on Java 9+ from day 1. Oracle is all about monetizing and reducing costs,
doing that with Java was always on the cards. It just so happens that it comes
at a time when there is also an upgrade issue from a technical perspective.

~~~
ternaryoperator
>Oracle is all about monetizing and reducing costs, doing that with Java was
always on the cards.

You might not like Oracle, but let's be fair here. They completely open
sourced the JDK and encouraged other vendors to ship compatible versions. They
charge only for support. You can get the identical product with no support
absolutely free.

~~~
toyg
I don't see where I criticized them, it's a perfectly legitimate strategy -
part of the reason Oracle is still around and Sun isn't. No need to be
defensive.

Oracle might have found a way to make money without being hated (too much) by
the community, which I think is a positive development. There is some credit
for Sun, which (iirc) is where the move towards OSS started; but Oracle is
adding the $$$ aspect they are famous for, which Sun could never quite crack.

------
slipwalker
they are making it easier and easier to decide to switch to
[https://adoptopenjdk.net](https://adoptopenjdk.net) ...

~~~
Someone1234
That's not a website aimed at consumers though. All the questions they're
asking should be hidden in "Other Platforms" with one giant link saying
"Latest Release."

I don't care about the politics or niche between HotSpot Vs. OpenJ9, and
reading the descriptions it sounds like 99% of people who don't know better
want HotSpot and JDK 12, so why even ask these questions?

That website is a perfect showcase of why OpenJDK isn't popular. Oracle's
consumer experienced is ten times better:
[https://www.java.com/en/](https://www.java.com/en/)

~~~
dragonwriter
> That's not a website aimed at consumers though.

Java isn't aimed at consumers, either.

~~~
Someone1234
So developers are writing Java Runtime software that nobody is running at all?

~~~
javagram
Oracle recommends developers pack a JRE with their individual applications
now.

No need for users to install a JRE or even know they’re using a java
application.

~~~
Someone1234
Wouldn't users still need a license to run Oracle's JRE?

~~~
javagram
They don’t need to use oracle JRE. Oracle has fully open-sourced the JRE under
GPL (unlike Sun).

If an app developer wants to use a version of the JDK other than that freely
supplied by Oracle at [https://openjdk.java.net/](https://openjdk.java.net/) ,
they can distribute AdoptOpenJDK, Apache Corretto, or any of the many other
openjdk distributions.

------
clouddrover
Can't you just download it here:
[https://java.com/en/download/manual.jsp](https://java.com/en/download/manual.jsp)

~~~
ghostbust555
Yeah not sure what the problem is. Google "download java" and this is the
first link.

~~~
Bartweiss
Oracle has two different links up, one of which requires a login. Searching
"jdk download" on a clean machine brings me to the technetwork page which
requires a login.

~~~
ryandrake
Maybe the title should be modified to: “Tell HN: It’s now slightly harder to
find a Java download link in a few seconds of searching”

------
badrabbit
Could be wrong but this has always been the case if the jdk/jre is not the
very latest download?

~~~
pjmlp
Yep, since Sun days already, but lets not let that stand in the way of
releasing some Oracle hate.

------
spullara
Oracle Java 8 is no longer freely supported. Switch to OpenJDK and move on if
you don't need their support.

------
severino
This has always been like that. You can download the current version JRE,
either from java.com or
[https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jdk...](https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jdk12-downloads-5295953.html),
where you can get the binaries just by accepting the license agreement.

The same holds for the current version JDK.

For older versions, login has always been required.

So please, don't spread FUD like this.

------
chaz6
There are alternative JRE/JDK distributions, including Coretto (Amazon), Zulu
(Azul), OpenJ9 (IBM), AdoptOpenJDK (jClarity/Microsoft).

------
pjmlp
Usual anti-Oracle FUD.

Already during Sun days one needed to login for EOL versions of Java.

JRE was EOL as per Java 9 release.

------
heelix
The only JDK you might be able to download from them without needing an
extended support license is JDK 12 - and that is only until October 16th.
Every other JDK/JRE version, from 6u211 to 11.0.4 only has the patched
versions available with a login. They might have had older releases still
public, but those were a huge source of grief. 7u80 was the last public
version, but 7u231 (if I remember right) is the latest release. You really,
really don't want to be using those unpatched versions.

Adopt OpenJDK has a great long term support release for v8 and v11 of the
JDK/JRE. Free as in beer.

------
butz
Good thing that Android Studio includes its own JRE.

~~~
aitchnyu
So does all its Jetbrains bethren, like Pycharm, Rubymine, PHPStorm, Idea.

------
techie128
You can completely avoid this by using a package manager - Homebrew on macOS,
apt on Debian/Ubuntu, yum on Redhat/CentOS. I don't use Windows but I am sure
there should be something similar. You also don't need to use Oracle's distro
any more. AdoptOpenJDK is a great alternative.

------
pron
That is because that version is intended for support customers. To get the JDK
with a free, open-source license, download it here:
[http://jdk.java.net/](http://jdk.java.net/)

(I work at Oracle on the JDK)

------
faeyanpiraat
They have put the newest mysql server behind registrationwall aswell. Really
annoying

~~~
mirimir
And they spam you incessantly for months afterward.

------
cpach
While we’re at it, is there any sane way to run Java applets these days...? I
know applets are obsolete a.f., but some legacy systems from large/important
vendors still require them.

~~~
vbezhenar
Internet Explorer should work with JRE 8.

------
dzhiurgis
I install mine via brew, but IIRC [https://sdkman.io](https://sdkman.io)
should easily solve this too.

------
drinane
Yeah I think there is a work around.. but it will take this comment board to
bubble it up

~~~
bhaak
Is the workaround downloading a newer version?

Because this works for me.

Not that I would do this unless I'm prevented from downloading OpenJDK.

------
metalliqaz
So are they trying to kill the platform?

~~~
mumblemumble
No, they're trying to make money off of it. I assume they're looking to figure
out how to make a _lot_ of money off of it, to make up for shrinking
enterprise software revenues.

It may be that their efforts to increase profits right now also inhibit Java's
pre-eminence in the open source community over the long run. I doubt that's a
major concern for them. Oracle is a Fortune 500 company, not a nonprofit
foundation.

~~~
oblio
It's still sad, though. Java got where it is thanks to Open Source.

Java's push onto the web failed (applets), Java's push onto desktops failed
(AWT/Swing), Java's push onto mobiles failed (Java ME; Android doesn't count,
Google did it despite/against Sun/Oracle). The only truly successful Java
domain is Java backends, which was rescued from Java EE hell by Apache,
basically.

~~~
rubinelli
.Net Core, on the other hand, looks better and better. It's expected to hit
3.0 next month. If I were making a stack decision today, barring some very
specific library/integration requirements, I'd rather pick it or Go over Java.

~~~
pjmlp
How is that Xamarin.Form GUI designer doing on .NET Core for Linux?

Focusing on .NET nowadays, but there are definitely a few areas where .NET
Core fails short of Java offerings.

------
squirrelicus
It never ceases to amaze me how the JDK and dotnet core have flipped in their
relationship to the software engineering community.

What was once open is closed. What was once closed is open.

~~~
kelnos
Java is just as open as it always was. Oracle has been gradually moving itself
away from being the sole source & driver of Java. OpenJDK is open and free,
and is both community-supported and driven by several companies prominent in
the Java ecosystem.

Oracle JDK is based on it, and Oracle is adding proprietary features so they
can make a buck.

Honestly, I'd say the new situation is _better_ than the old. Oracle no longer
has the stranglehold over Java that they had since they bought Sun.

