
Magic Leap One now available for $2295 - pbnjay
https://www.magicleap.com/magic-leap-one
======
40acres
It's interesting reading startup literature regarding MVPs and iterating
quickly and notice that almost none of it applies to the AR/VR space. Between
Magic Leap and Ubiquty6 it seems like the most interesting players in AR are
more notable for their funding rounds than for anything else. Magic Leap is
rolling out their own hardware so it's more understandable but its really hard
to justify spending $2K on a first generation AR device.

If I had to put money on it I think Magic Leap will go the way of General
Magic, lots of cool tech and ideas in a product that was ultimately too
expensive and too late to drive the company forward but will be looked upon as
a great innovator once another company uses their inventions and packages it
in a low cost, user friendly interface.

~~~
gowld
It's new tech. It's not for you to keep in your closet. It's for hotels and
arcades and parties and other such rental use cases.

~~~
ghaff
I'd be skeptical you get sufficient volume with just specialty uses.

~~~
dymk
Magic Leap only needs to sell (roughly) 17% as many Ones as Oculus Rifts, to
have equivalent sales ($2.3k vs $400 device).

And while their current hardware is expensive, I would bet that their longterm
plan isn't to sell devices that cost more than $2000.

~~~
albinofrenchy
Equivalent sales is a nonsensical metric between the two. I doubt their profit
margin is 5x per device compared to the rift.

------
kadendogthing
Are they planning a sort of technical deep dive/developer Q&A? The page reeks
of marketing and is extremely lax on any kind of substantial details that
would make me want to purchase one of these things.

I've enjoyed my vive and rift since they both came out, and I'd love to try
this gadget out. It doesn't appear to be worth the cost at face value though.

~~~
DonHopkins
I'm shocked, I say shocked, that something from Magic Leap could possibly be
said to reek of marketing.

You should spend the next six minutes and seventeen seconds of your life
watching this amazing piece of public relations magic that transparently
unveils the deep truth of what Magic Leap is really all about:

The synthesis of imagination: Rony Abovitz and Magic Leap at TEDxSarasota

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8J5BWL8oJY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8J5BWL8oJY)

~~~
Reedx
I don't understand how Magic Leap thought this was worthwhile. Nor do I
understand how TEDx thought it was an idea worth spreading.

Can anyone explain the logic behind it on both sides?

~~~
ReverseCold
For the TED(x) talk part, anyone can give a TEDx talk. There are lots of local
events, and the videos are published on their website.

------
newfocogi
What happened to Magic Leap's advanced photonic lightfield chip? I thought the
thing that made Magic Leap special was their light field tech, but this just
appears to be stacked wave guides, which other than having 2 focal planes
seems to be the same tech as Hololens.

~~~
GW150914
It never existed and was never going to exist, except as marketing and
investor hype. Same with their fiber-scanning display, and everything else
that doesn’t add up to, “like a Hololens, but with a much dimmer view of the
real world and more useless patents.”

[https://www.kguttag.com/2018/08/27/palmer-luckey-founder-
of-...](https://www.kguttag.com/2018/08/27/palmer-luckey-founder-of-oculus-
magic-leap-is-a-tragic-heap/)

Quote from Palmer Luckey in that blog: _“The ML1 is a not a “lightfield
projector” or display by any broadly accepted definition, and as a Bi-Focal
Display, only solves vergence-accommodation conflict in contrived demos that
put all UI and environmental elements at one of two focus planes. Mismatch
occurs at all other depths. In much the same way, a broken clock displays the
correct time twice a day.“_

Downvotes aside, are there any actual counterpoints to be offered to this
critique? It _is_ like a Hololens, it does have a dimmer view, it doesn’t
match their many promises and early patents, it is slightly cheaper and has a
slightly better FOV than HL, but it’s also wired to their Lightpack. All in
all I’d say the investors should be carrying pitchforks and torches.

~~~
SahAssar
I don't think that's fair to say at this point. Everything points to it being
vaporware right now, but nobody outside of their R&D is sure, and Palmer
Luckey merely analyzed their current product just like everyone else (but
perhaps with a bit more bias).

It (what they advertised) looks like it's vaporware, but when they release
something else I'll keep an eye on it just in case it isn't.

~~~
GW150914
What’s unfair about it? They’ve spent years making claims that turned out to
be patently false, and their patents tell the story of a company that pursued
something better minds have failed at, and then shows them pivoting to the
boring “Hololens 1.1” we see today. Other than an incredible facility with
both deceptive marketing and fundraising I see no reason to give them the
benefit of the doubt at this point. They’re still blathering about “photonic
lightfield chips” when they’re selling run-of-the-mill waveguides.

I don’t see vapor ware, there is a product, it’s just technically unimpressive
and at odds with years of marketing. _If_ they release something else there is
no indication that they’re capable of producing more than incremental
modifications of existing tech. Do you see some other indication outside of
their marketing and fundraising to indicate otherwise? Investors were sold on
visions of something completely at odds with their actual product, how is that
not a huge red flag?

------
dmode
Magic Leap raised boatloads of money, which game me the impression that they
are really building something mass market that can be useful for most people
in this world. I am not into gaming and have kids, so cannot wear AR glasses
in my home and walk around. Are there use cases for Magic Leap that support
non gamers ? Or is it mostly a niche product like an Oculus ?

~~~
aphextron
>Are there use cases for Magic Leap that support non gamers ? Or is it mostly
a niche product like an Oculus ?

AR will definitely be the way forward for all computing. This brief awkward
period of 50ish years using analog inputs and physical screens which we are
currently living through will be seen as a blip in the history of human-
computer interaction hundreds of years from now. However the only use case for
this iteration of the technology is for developers to begin working on new
interaction paradigms and app ideas for AR in general. We're still years away
from true consumer tech but I can admit as someone very familiar with VR/AR
hardware that the Magic Leap One is a solid evolutionary step forward from
what we've seen so far. I'm not impressed enough to buy one yet, but at least
the company has shown they aren't total vaporware at this point and hopefully
they can keep improving.

~~~
xixixao
I am a big VR/AR fan, but I am interacting with this forum sitting in a chair
moving my hands max 2 inches there and back. That's comfortable. That's
something I can do for hours and hours. It's quite possible that VR/AR will
augment, not replace.

~~~
troygoode
On the timescale OP is talking about there is a decent chance users won’t have
to move their hands/fingers at all.

[https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/19/facebook-brain-
interface/](https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/19/facebook-brain-interface/)

AR would replace the display, not all input mechanisms.

~~~
earenndil
What if I don't trust facebook with my brainstate? (Or google or literally
_any_ other company.)

------
spullara
I have one of these and a Hololens. Basically the ML1 is incremental
improvement. There are still no mainstream consumer use cases that are
plausible.

~~~
sbr464
Curious--how is the font rendering/text quality? Example, working with digital
cards with a title, short description, maybe numbers (currency/stats etc),
reading them quickly and organizing them. I'm familiar with Oculus, so maybe
in general and compared to the Rift?

~~~
spullara
Hard to say. The experience is quite a bit different than VR headsets. I can
imagine that with its small FoV that it ought to be a bit better but I don't
have an easy way to compare them.

~~~
ReverseCold
How about...How big does text need to be in order for you to be able to
comfortably read it?

(Compare using a quarter or other common object a certain distance away from
you.)

For example on the rift, text is readable when it's the size of a quarter ~3
feet away from me.

------
taurath
Really seems like a money furnace for the investors here.

~~~
pwaai
Well if you are privileged to invest in Magic Leap One, they probably aren't
hurting...no sympathy from me when their plans to buy a yacht is ruined :/

It is backed by Google so there is probably plans to improve the hardware
which as it stands is _not impressive_ OR knowing Google they could pull the
plug just as easily.

In fact, Magic Leap One, is looking to be a major major flop, shortly after
somebody released a review on the limited focal view and some annoying
hardware designs I knew it was fucked.

~~~
0xCMP
It's not all about the investors dude. Money misallocated means companies,
solutions, and inventions that could have been built aren't since the money
wasn't there.

We all lose when that happens.

This is a developer device. We'll see when they release the consumer one if it
flops, but that'll probably be if no one makes the apps or games it needs to
be successful.

~~~
Maybestring
These all seem a guaranteed flop at the consumer level.

Limited FOV is going to kill it for almost everyone. I think they would sell
more at double the price, if they doubled the FOV.

~~~
0xCMP
Agreed. I'm sure they're aware of that. But they needed to get a device to
developers given that they've "built a whole new operating system" (As Lucky
explained, just built stuff on Android).

Also from Palmer Lucky: They need to fix the controller. Either compromise on
it or make something custom that works. Commercial applications will bring a
lot of funding here and a wonky controller, when others exist which are not,
will hamper that.

They have the chicken, now they need developers to make eggs. Day One of a
consumer Magic Leap device needs that for anyone to say "wow, I need to have
one of those in my life."

------
rglover
Cool to see tech like this moving forward. Still think we're 5-10 years off
from folks really adopting this stuff heavily (especially with a higher price
point like this), but man, it's going to get wild. $50 says one day Alexa will
just be sitting on your couch, taking on whatever form you'd like (e.g., Bill
Murray, snacking on Fig Newtons waiting for commands).

Does anyone know what would be a good way to start dabbling in developing
environments/experiences for these and other AR devices?

~~~
epmaybe
unity has a pretty beginner-friendly toolset for windows mixed reality, I
would check that out for sure. In terms of getting an AR capable device, I
think some of the screen only (not holograms but camera-based to display) MR
devices are relatively cheap, somewhere in the $200-500 USD range. It's a
pretty fun experience, maybe you'll have an interesting use case :)

------
whateveryou381
Site purchasing does not work. Leads to a page "oops" that has one button
"return to magic"

~~~
foobaw
Maybe a fake CTA to measure interest..

------
dna_polymerase
I remember the first articles about this super secretive start up from not the
Silicon Valley, that did some super amazing stuff, loads of VC-cash and all
that.

This thing now looks really underwhelming. The pages full of marketing talk to
present basically another (better, maybe) HoloLens.

~~~
sp332
What's wrong with being a better Hololens?

~~~
dna_polymerase
Nothing wrong, but given all the buzz I expected something incredible. This
right now has already be done, by Microsoft, so I don't really see how they
could possibly compete in this market.

~~~
DonHopkins
And Microsoft managed to ship Hololens without settling any sexual
discrimination lawsuits. (Obviously they have better lawyers!)

[https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/feb/14/magic-
lea...](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/feb/14/magic-leap-faces-
sexual-discrimination-suit)

[https://mic.com/articles/168619/the-most-damning-
allegations...](https://mic.com/articles/168619/the-most-damning-allegations-
from-the-sexual-discrimination-complaint-against-magic-leap)

[https://www.wired.com/2017/05/magic-leap-bias-suit-sexism-
si...](https://www.wired.com/2017/05/magic-leap-bias-suit-sexism-sign-
failure/)

>Thanks to Campbell's lawsuit, a whole new host of questions have arisen, as
well as a sinking suspicion that the company is even more dysfunctional than
previously thought. Excessive hype is one sign of a company possibly
foundering due to mismanagement. Misogyny of the kind alleged by Campbell
suggests dysfunction on a whole other level. As incidents of sexism in tech
pile up, it's becoming clear that misogyny in the industry is both a moral
travesty and a potential warning sign that a business is in trouble.

------
pbnjay
Sadly not available for my area, but I was happy to see the note about
prescriptions. Thats probably one of my biggest complaints about the Rift and
others is that it gets pretty uncomfortable with glasses on.

~~~
tlb
You can't buy them yet, which made the system barely usable for me. It comes
with an empty frame that accommodates round lenses. I popped the lenses out of
an old pair of glasses and ground them to the right size and shape with a belt
sander, and it works OK. You can eyeball the size accurately enough to fit
snugly in the rubber frame.

------
smaili
> We created a new kind of computer so we built a whole new operating system.
> One that gets the most out of our spatial computing system by working in
> tandem with digital lightfields and the brain. Lumin OS is fully optimized
> for environment recognition, persistent digital content and the performance
> to power high-fidelity visual experiences that turns your wildest
> imagination into even wilder realities.

Super curious if it's built from the ground up or a mod of an existing OS.

~~~
joezydeco
_" Magic Leap says they have “built a whole new operating system” called
LuminOS to take advantage of their “spatial computing system“. It is actually
just Android with custom stuff on top, the same approach most people take when
they want to claim they have built a whole operating system... I hope Magic
Leap does cool stuff in the future, but the current UI is basically an Android
Wear watch menu that floats in front of you."_

[http://palmerluckey.com/magic-leap-is-a-tragic-
heap/](http://palmerluckey.com/magic-leap-is-a-tragic-heap/)

~~~
jonnydubowsky
This is a great read. Thanks for posting!my favorite quote, "The ML1 is a not
a “lightfield projector” or display by any broadly accepted definition, and as
a Bi-Focal Display, only solves vergence-accommodation conflict in contrived
demos that put all UI and environmental elements at one of two focus planes.
Mismatch occurs at all other depths. In much the same way, a broken clock
displays the correct time twice a day."

------
Razengan
Chiming in on the questions regarding use cases etc.:

Aside from letting artists and engineers paint/sculpt/model more intuitively
in 3D space, I still believe that the killer app for VR on the consumer side
would be virtual tourism.

Coming full circle to the View-Master [0], except this time people could
practically live in their favorite fantasy or sci-fi locations.

Imagine being part of the crew on the USS Enterprise, or idling the hours away
smoking the halflings' leaf in the Shire..

Right now though, VR is just a fancy display tech, but with lower [apparent]
resolution than many existing 2D displays and comparatively poor, often
fatigue-inducing interactivity in almost all cases, apart from the
aforementioned placement of 3D objects.

Why has nobody dared to drop the pretenses yet, and actually take VR to the
level it professes to be: supplanting reality?

Make it more than just a display.

Invent some kind of cabin with climate control and aromatic components, that
lets your other senses and your _entire body_ feel like you're someplace else.
Feel the tropical wind on your face without leaving the concrete jungle of
your megacity.

Of course at first such tech would be too expense to have in most people's
homes. So you might also usher in a renaissance of public arcades; VRcades? :)

People could start going there as an alternative to expensive vacations.

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View-
Master](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View-Master)

~~~
arnaudsm
I'm skeptic about virtual tourism. We already have 4K HDR screens that display
gorgeous pictures, but people still go to the museum to admire paintings.

Tourism is more of a social act than a content-consumption one. People brag
when they go to the museum, but never when they binge-watch paintings at 3 AM
on the Internet.

~~~
api
Virtual tourism is like Soylent. Soylent doesn't replace good food. It
replaces crappy fast food. Virtual tourism won't replace going to an art
gallery for real. It replaces never going at all.

I could see it really enriching the lives of those who can't afford to travel.

I do it myself sometimes with Google street view. I'll go "visit" some random
place.

~~~
arnaudsm
I agree, I've spent way too much time on Google Earth VR !

But I still think virtual tourism will stay niche in the future because of the
social reasons I stated.

------
mattbierner
Any developers actively creating (and sharing) interesting stuff for the
device? The examples on their website feel like stuff I’ve seen before. I’d be
interested in hearing about the good things and the challenges of developing
for their platform and for AR in general

------
vijaybritto
Is it just AR? Or is it something different? All the hype for so many years
showed console level graphics in the ads but the real videos show low quality
android level graphics.

~~~
jazzyjackson
I haven't seen anything that differentiates it from Hololens at this point.
Their 'waveguide' tech apparently allows it to create graphics in focus at
0.5m and also at 5m, but having items become out of focus with the rest of the
world, never seemed like a hindrance to me since if I wasn't focused on it,
well, I wasn't paying attention.

They have eye-tracking tech but aren't using it yet.

The Palmer piece (Magic Leap is a Tragic Heap) breaks down that this is a
Tegra X2 running an Android OS.

The console level graphics were most assuredly vaporware.

~~~
freeone3000
It has a slightly wider field of view and two focal planes. Also, it's
cheaper.

~~~
GW150914
It also has a wired headset to a belt computing device, and a dimmer view of
the real world. I’m not convinced that the FOV is worth that.

~~~
DonHopkins
When I see "belt computing" I think of Factorio.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSfVqIkVEnI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSfVqIkVEnI)

------
Raphmedia
Before judging the price, remember that other less useful luxury tech gadgets
have similar price points. E.g. Sony's new Aibo at $2899.

~~~
IshKebab
And Aibo is now reasonably priced and a huge success?

------
xutopia
"Both the real world and virtual light rays initiate neural signals that pass
from the retina to the visual part of the brain, creating unbelievably
believable experiences."

So light?

~~~
onomics
Woah, virtual light rays travelling via neural signals! Oh wait, that's the
same as looking at computer screen. I hate marketing speak..

------
alexnewman
Any advantages over the hololens

~~~
Ajedi32
$700 cheaper, less weight on your head, increased field-of-view, 6-DOF tracked
controller, eye tracking, and support for two focal planes.

------
8bitsrule
Quite the name. Pretty sure that Rudolf Nureyev already cornered that market
tho.

------
nickthemagicman
Was the part at the end about the Airbender and zuko a dig at journalists?

~~~
drivebyubnt
It was a dig at Palmer Luckey, who wrote a scathing review of the MLP.

[https://palmerluckey.com/magic-leap-is-a-tragic-
heap/](https://palmerluckey.com/magic-leap-is-a-tragic-heap/)

------
interdrift
Too much.

~~~
sp332
It's an engineering prototype that you can buy. Hololens was $3,000 and this
is better than Hololens.

~~~
dna_polymerase
How is this better? You seem somewhat involved with them.

~~~
sp332
I'm just taking a break at work, chill.

[https://magic-leap.reality.news/news/magic-leap-one-first-
ha...](https://magic-leap.reality.news/news/magic-leap-one-first-hands-
impressions-for-hololens-developers-0186411/)

------
hartator
Really, really cool. I don’t any usecases in mind, but I want one. I wish
someone can just port a Sublime text or A VSCode on the headset, and code from
here.

