
An American Citizen Was Forcibly Drafted Into the South Korean Army (2015) - curtis
https://www.allkpop.com/forum/threads/how-one-american-citizen-was-forcibly-drafted-into-the-south-korean-army.60174/
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askmike
Unfortunate sequence of events: he turned out to be a Korean citizen which was
the cause.

As such I really don't understand the title of the post. The fact he was an
American citizen had nothing to do with it. He might as well have been
Egyptian, Irish or Chinese and it wouldn't have changed anything.

~~~
jpatokal
People, even dual citizens, are often under the mistaken impression that
having another citizenship is a "get out of jail free" card for the
obligations of the other one. This is very much not the case.

~~~
int_19h
In many cases it is, so long as you stay away from the other jurisdiction.

In this case, though, it's not that he had such an impression. It's that he
didn't _know_ he was a Korean citizen.

If draft is a social contract, what do you call a contract where one of the
parties never consented to it and wasn't even aware that someone signed them
up without their consent, and then the other party tries to enforce it?

~~~
askmike
Citizenship is not about consent. There might be situations where you can out
of yours, but I don't think that means that everyone else consents. That said
I don't agree with how it works.

~~~
int_19h
Citizenship is at least opt-out in general. Some countries don't let you do it
at all, and most make it complicated and expensive, but still. For adults,
that's an option if you're unhappy with taxes, laws etc.

But if you're born a citizen in a country with conscription, then you're
underage - and thus unable to opt-out on your own, even if you could somehow
afford it - until you're 18. And then they hand you the summons.

~~~
jogjayr
> Citizenship is at least opt-out in general.

Only if you're able to obtain another citizenship. I don't think any country
will allow renunciation if it leaves you stateless.

~~~
int_19h
Most countries don't, but some do; USA is one of them.

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rmah
I have to wonder if there's something being left out of this article. My
family was in very similar situations. Our family emigrated to the US from S.
Korea. My little brother was in almost exactly the same situation as the guy
in the article. He was born in the US and is a US citizen. My grandfather, in
a fit of misplaced patriotism, registered my brother as being born in Korea so
he could have Korean citizenship. Upon turning 18, the S.Korean military, of
course, sent a draft notice. All it took to clear things up was for my brother
to send proof of US birth and US citizenship. Problem solved, no big deal.

~~~
toephu2
> sent a draft notice

Sent it where? They actually had your little brother's address in the U.s.?

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gandalfian
Boris Johnson, the British politician, was born in New York to British
parents. When years later he tried to change planes in Florida en route to
Mexico they would not let him into the USA without an American passport, his
UK one was no good if he was born in the USA. So he renounced his USA
citizenship, which he never knew he had, at which point they demanded his tax
returns for his life, including a large chunk of the capital gains money he
made selling a house in England. He had to pay up too despite never having had
any connection with the USA except his birth. My point is not that this stuff
is right but that it does happen, even in the USA.

Mysteriously we are all democracies yet still prisoners of our governments and
unable to free ourselves?

~~~
TomMarius
So how do we use Bitcoin to fix this?

~~~
manuelisimo
with machine learning of course

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whack
> _" It was only when Chun went to apply for a visa open to ethnic Korean
> foreigners that he discovered he was a South Korean citizen."_

The above paragraph isn't very clear, but it implies that Chun was aware of
his Korean citizenship before he flew into Korea? In fact, he consciously
benefited from his Korean citizenship, by not go through the visa process? If
that's the case, it would be eminently reasonable from the Koreans'
perspective, that he should perform the obligations associated with
citizenship. If I knew that I was a citizen of a country that has mandatory
military service, I would really think twice before flying there.

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MRD85
One of my best friends, the best man at my wedding, nearly had this happen to
him. He was born and raised in Australia but had dual citizenship with
Denmark. During a gap year after school before university, he travelled to
Denmark for 12 months. He was surprised to find that he was being conscripted
but managed to avoid this due to not being fluent in Danish. It seems that if
this had of happened in South Korea then he would have been out of luck.

~~~
maze-le
At least in Denmark you have the possibility to get over the border to germany
or sweden and travel back -- trying to handle that matter from the Danish
consulate in Australia. In South Korea, the only border is towards North
Korea...

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aristophenes
I knew a Canadian who managed to get drafted into the US military, for the
Korean war I think, because he had a summer job as a young man in the US, and
someone came in and said everyone needed to sign up for the draft so he did
with everyone else. And he got drafted. Apparently after he went through boot
camp, someone found out and I guess they were embarrassed, they didn't send
him to war but they did keep him in the service! They kept him stateside for
his commitment. And he didn't even get US citizenship out of it. Of course it
never should have happened, but I made a mental note that this is the result
of not taking bureaucracy seriously and just going with the flow.

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pcurve
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXyn4ZOcZ54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXyn4ZOcZ54)

audio interview

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knorker
"American citizen" \-- so what? Dual citizenship is a thing. So is triple.

"Forcibly conscripted" \-- as opposed to voluntary conscription?

~~~
Scoundreller
It’s a bit more voluntary if they say “show up at X in Y days” instead of
“you’re coming with us”.

~~~
knorker
Is it? I guess it depends on if at Y+1 days there's a warrant and between now
and now+Y your passport at borders will trigger alarms and arrest.

