
US drone strike kills 15 civilians in Yemen by mistake - dkasper
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/12/us-yemen-strike-idUSBRE9BB10O20131212?irpc=932
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ck2
Wait, ANOTHER wedding? Didn't we do this a year or two ago also?

We just wiped out 15 completely innocent people? Destroying their lives and
their families forever?

Can you imagine the holy hell if a foreign government did that in a US city?

Shut down all armed drones. Review the entire use of them from top to bottom.
This isn't a video game, there is no do-over.

~~~
MartinCron
_Can you imagine the holy hell if a foreign government did that in a US city?_

You've just stepped into that intellectual minefield that's called "American
Exceptionalism". Enjoy your stay.

~~~
pekk
"American exceptionalism" does not mean "America is an exception to rules"
(whatever those rules might be)

~~~
nfg
What does it mean then?

~~~
keiferski
It refers to the belief that Americans as a people are specially suited for
doing things exceptionally.

~~~
basch
american exceptionalism generally refers to the state and its machine not the
people.

------
javajosh
I swear to christ someone has to pay for this kind of mistake, or we are just
mindless thugs. We have to pay attention to correcting our mistakes, or we are
tacitly endorsing them.

The problem, of course, is that there is no accountability. None. What do I
do, write to my senator and say how mad I am? People write to senators saying
how mad they are all the time.

And the press stands by and does nothing. They are just foreigners, its not
like they were Americans.

On it's face, Obama has final responsibility for this mistake. He is the
Commander in Chief of our armed forces; the drone strike policy is his; what
will he say? What will he do? Ignore it? Apologize and promise to "look into
it"?

I have a suggestion to align the interests of our armed forces with the
interests of our nation: fine the fuck out of the group that makes the
mistake. Make this incident have a material impact on next years budget. Teach
decision makers that when they kill innocents, their careers are on the line.
It's an embarrassment that travels all the way up the chain, all the way to
the political level, but it will hurt your pocket book.

Where should the money go? The surviving families. They should be set for
life. And if they radicalize and use their new wealth to arm themselves
against the US? Oh well, I guess we should have thought of that before blowing
whole innocent families up - and by remote control, no less. (Heck, we don't
even do them the honor of putting a single American life in jeopardy to
assassinate people anymore. Sheesh.)

~~~
galois17
Accountability is definitely an issue but the major issue is the attitude of
acting like the biggest bully in high school doing whatever the heck you want
just because you happen to be bigger than the other kids. Actually its even
worse because at least the high school bully doesn't go around telling off
other "bullies" for their behavior

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fishtoaster
There seems to be conflicting information:

"their party was mistaken for an al Qaeda convoy"

"An air strike missed its target and hit a wedding car convoy"

Were they targeting the wedding car or not? One is a failure of intelligence,
the other is a failure of the technology.

~~~
z0a
It's a failure of intelligence either ways, I'll tell you that.

~~~
towski
Or perhaps it's too smart

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kelvin0
So please remind me, who are the terrorists again? I keep getting confused ...

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middleclick
The repercussions are equally serious. What America is basically doing is
creating more terrorists by harming innocent people. It's not a nice thing to
see your loved ones get killed for no reason. Couple that with low levels of
education, poverty, and you have more "Death to America" people who believe
that jihad is the only way to salvation in an otherwise meaningless life.

~~~
pstuart
A more cynical person might think that this was intentional -- to keep the
pipeline full.

~~~
malandrew
Given some of the comments that have come out of the the Stratfor emails, I
don't even think you would need to be a cynical person. There are many in
Washington D.C. (and probably in every capital) that are more than eager to
fan flames because it keeps their pipelines full.

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atmosx
The only question that really puzzles me and probably should puzzle USA
citizens is:

 _Why is a USA drone flying in Yemen anyway?_

~~~
rayiner
Because Yemen is a failed state and a hotbed of terrorism, and the U.S.
believes that it's important for geopolitical stability to keep it in check.

There's nothing puzzling about it. This is the way the world has worked for
centuries, and how the U.S. has worked since its founding. The great powers
intervene in small nations to put out brush fires that could upset the global
status quo. It's like the history of Europe from 1500-1945.

~~~
vfclists
It is not because Yemen is a failed state which is another bit of nonsensical
terminology invented by the genocidal US policy hawks.

It is a failed state primarily because it has corrupt leadership that is
willing to take bribes from the US government and their armaments companies to
engage in extra judicial killings of their citizens.

~~~
rayiner
States exist to preserve internal security and impose the rule of law. Neither
of these things exist in Yemen. It's a failed state by definition.

As for how it got that way, it has nothing to do with the U.S. It's the result
of the civil war in the 1990s.

~~~
vfclists
The Soviet state murdered 30 million of its 'own' citizens between its
establishment and the onset of the 2nd world war. The 2 world wars between the
major European states resulted in the death of 100 million people. Are these
the signs of what you call 'successful' states as opposed to failed states? Do
you consider the deaths in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq as the result of
actions by a 'successful' state, ie the US?

The failed states you speak about have only failed because of the wars which
destroy them are funded by the major powers who can keep those low level wars
going indefinitely at minimal cost to themselves. Most wars come to an end
because the combatants simply lack the resources to keep them going, unless
they are funded from the outside, in this case the US and its Middle Eastern
proxies.

Your concept of 'failed state' is the product of the noxious foul diet of
neocon propaganda that passes for a liberal American education, and only
exists to gain the consent of the US population to indebt them, their children
and their great-grandchildren to fund their genocidal activities.

Do your self a favor and purge yourself of it.

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amaks
This will continue to be happening until a wedding or anything in US will be
destroyed by the drones, by mistake. Until then, the public opinion in this
country won't take these events with all seriousness.

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JaggedJax
This has less to do with drones or technology or intelligence or mistakes than
it has to do with war. The issue is should we be at war with Al Qaeda or not.

Assuming we are at war and okay with bombing the enemy, civilians will die.
That is how war works. A drone (Even one pointed at the wrong target) does a
lot less damage than the traditional carpet bombing. Civilians die either way,
but a lot less die with modern technology.

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elwell
Not good; are we creating more revenge terrorists than we are killing with
these drone strikes?

~~~
lawnchair_larry
Think of the number of innocents who died in 9/11.

Now think of how many people you heard around the country shortly after,
talking about their desire to turn Afghanistan/Iraq into a parking lot, or
similar. And everybody who was motivated to enlist, and go kick some ass.

I'm going to guess that their reactions aren't a whole lot nicer than our
reactions.

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o2sd98
Does anyone keep a tally on how many civilians the US has murdered with
drones?

~~~
msg
Yes.

[http://www.livingunderdrones.org/numbers/](http://www.livingunderdrones.org/numbers/)

There are no 100% solid estimates because of problems with reliable sources,
but here are a couple of links to get you started.

[http://natsec.newamerica.net/drones/pakistan/analysis](http://natsec.newamerica.net/drones/pakistan/analysis)

[http://www.longwarjournal.org/multimedia/Yemen/code/Yemen-
st...](http://www.longwarjournal.org/multimedia/Yemen/code/Yemen-strike.php)

[http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/category/projects/drone...](http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/category/projects/drones/)

~~~
o2sd98
Thanks, that was equally informative as it was depressing.

It's not exactly something that is winning the hearts and minds of people in
the middle east. I guess the western powers are passed that now, and are
engaged in a crusade.

