
Ask HN: How do I get started with Algo trading? - jklein11
I&#x27;m interested in getting started with Algo Trading, but I&#x27;m not really sure where to dig in. I  have a BA in economics and finance and did a capstone in pricing derivatives. Any good recommendations on how to get started? Any good MOOCS or books?
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remyp
If you're considering algo trading as a career then be sure to talk to a lot
of people doing it. I spent several years trying to break in to the industry
at a few prop firms with only middling success. Here are my observations:

1\. The vast majority of firms only hire people with CS or math degrees from
top 10 schools, with an MS being the minimum. There are few exceptions.

2\. Nobody is making as much money as they used to.

3\. Depending on what firm you end up at you will probably spend a lot less
time building cool strategies and a lot more time trying to shave off a few
microseconds here and there.

4\. Be prepared for a pretty rough work environment. Swearing, violent
outbursts, people being secretive and not sharing ideas.

5\. If you're lucky, management will be STEM people. If you're not, they will
be former floor traders who have managed to stay alive this long.

~~~
Rainymood
I'm like you trying to break into prop trading (Ms applied mathematics) would
you think it is still possible to 'make a career' in this kind of stuff? Or
would you advise getting a PhD first? How was your experience at the prop
firms?

~~~
remyp
I gave up ~3 years ago. I had to choose between aggressively pursuing low-
paying trading jobs or being pursued for high-paying tech jobs. The decision
was pretty easy for my family and me. As we'd say in the industry, I went were
the edge was. I'd recommend doing the same -- the security, stress level,
work/life balance, work environment, and transferability of skills is much
better in tech than trading.

Put concisely: if you can't handle seeing a smaller paycheck next month
because a guy on your team pressed the wrong button and lost $50k in 10
seconds then trading is not for you.

If you want to get in I would recommend as much math and programming as
possible. A PhD probably isn't necessary, an MS from a top school will do.
You'd better be prepared to do programming, math, AND arithmetic in
interviews, though. I once had a options trading interview that included ten
"please multiply 148 by 72 in your head, we'll wait" questions.

~~~
koder2016
_> I'd recommend doing the same..._

Sadly this advice only applies to USA... E.g. UK has such an over-abundance of
IT workforce that tech salaries are significantly below US despite comparable
cost of living.

~~~
spoonie
I would argue the lower salaries are for societal reasons (health care,
cheaper university tuition, etc) more so than Europeans coming to work in the
UK. Consider AmaGoogBookSoft salaries in London: lower but not scandalously
so.

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grayje
[https://www.quantopian.com/](https://www.quantopian.com/) has a great
community, lots of examples & tuts available, and you can look at everyone
else's algos. It's free, there's free backtesting, etc. They're a
"crowdsourced hedge fund" using Python and the zipline library.

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1274749637
I would start by getting industry experience and understanding how some of
these trading firms are businesses, not speculative machines. From that
understanding, you should be able to have a better idea of where algos might
provide some sustainable value.

Source: I was offered a spot at CTC, wound up at a large bank. Maybe the
better wording would be, "truly understand market making and market mechanics,
and where improvements there could be valuable, and then see if algos could
solve that problem." Algos have solved lots of problems but when you have a
hammer everything looks like a nail. Technology was the limiting factor in
markets for awhile, and right now the technology isn't the bottleneck, it's
the politics and the people - see Bitcoin. But before you go full Marc
Andressen, remember that finance is fundamentally about using the massive
trust and resource allocation system within the human society, and so to think
every valuable problem in the space can be solved by an algo may be dated
thinking.

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ghgr
Surely you'll find interesting Stockfighter [1], a trading game developed by
three members of this community; Erin Ptacek (elptacek), Thomas Ptacek
(tptacek) and Patrick McKenzie (patio11).

[1] [https://www.stockfighter.io](https://www.stockfighter.io)

~~~
zerr
Do those people have enough insight/experience for the domain?

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macromackie
One of the best resources I've seen is Mike Halls-Moore's QuantStart:
[https://www.quantstart.com/articles](https://www.quantstart.com/articles)

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sshconnection
If you're in the NYC or bay area, there are a few quant groups on meetup.com
that have regular events. Might be a good place to drop in.

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chollida1
There was an almost identical post about 3 weeks ago here.

Let me state flat out that I don't think there are any good books about
algorithmic trading all all.

Most will talk at surface level about what they are doing but non will give
you a start to finish example that can be deployed with a brokerage like
interactive brokers. Trading & Exchanges I see was recommended. I'd skip it,
most(All?) trading strategies that the average person will come up with won't
be market micro structure related, and if it is then I'm going to flat out
state that you've lost before you started.

If you really want to get into it, then please don't start with machine
learning.

I've said this many times but ask your self:

\- "what machine learning techniques could I apply that 100 fresh PHD's
haven't done on their first week at a hedge fund?"

\- "What data source do you have that the average hedge fund doesn't have
access to"?

\- "What market insight do you have that someone whose done this for years
doesn't have?"

If after all that you still want to get started then honestly your best bet is
to start with quantopian. Don't look at market data changes at a granularity
of less than 1 day until you can create a strategy on your own that makes
money.

Quantopian can give you access to a backtesting platform and clean market
data, which is the step most people get stuck on, and usually quit at.

Once you've found a strategy that makes money, put your money into an account
with Interactive brokers, If after 3 months you still want to continue then
start looking at market data slices of less than one day.

Tl/DR

\- first step is don't

\- second step is to focus on time slices of 1 day or more

\- third, put your own money into action on you strategy for 3 months

\- fourth step, there is a very small chance you'll make it this far, look at
time slices of less than a day. At this point you can start to apply machine
learning and build your own software. Even at this stage you are more likely
to be an ATM for a hedge fund than you are to make money.

Good luck

Feel free to reach out to me, personal email in profile if you'd like to chat.

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tmaly
check out [https://www.quantopian.com/](https://www.quantopian.com/)

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csayantan
u should be in financial engineering for algo development.get nt7 and test b/s
signal.more thing u should have a good money management rule with
wyckoff/pitch fork rules etc. u should have good understanding on OFA/MP too.

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algotrading
hi, yes there is an excellent online course developed called trading strategy
launch framework, helped me go from zero to cracking hubdreds of robust
strategies

~~~
fosco
can you share the online course?

