
1,000-year-old onion and garlic eye remedy kills MRSA - charkubi
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-32117815
======
crimsonalucard
I'm telling you, 10-20 years from now we're going to get garlic and onion
resistant MRSA.

~~~
Alex3917
Why? People have known about the antibacterial and antiviral properties of
allium for hundreds of years, so it's not like anything is going to magically
change.

~~~
ceejayoz
Penicillin mold has existed for millions of years, but it was widespread
therapeutic use in humans that caused extensive resistance. Humans are the
ecological version of "magic".

------
_red
Anecdotal. But when I was young I suffered from intense ear-aches. Eventually
my Mom capitulated to my Grandmothers suggestion and put garlic cloves in
olive oil and poured into my ear. Within a few hours of treatment those ear-
aches would disappear completely.

Years later I researched and found out about allicin and its presence in
freshly crushed garlic.

In fact there are now theories that many of the cooking practices of
"marinating in crushed garlic" was just as much to do about anti-bacterial
effects as culinary.

~~~
fpgaminer
> put garlic cloves in olive oil and poured into my ear.

While not applicable to your specific use, I'll point out for general
knowledge that garlic + olive oil can lead to the growth of Clostridium
botulinum, aka the Botulism causing bacteria. This more commonly occurs when
making garlic infused olive oil, since the botulinum needs time to grow. Hence
why it probably didn't matter for your grandmother's usage; not enough time
for the concoction to become dangerous. But this is one of those strange facts
that it's good know, in case someone decides to make homemade infused olive
oil for their meals.

~~~
e12e
Interesting - wasn't aware of that. I wonder how hardy those spores are --
that is, if they're as much of a problem with dried garlic, as with fresh?

One easy options seems to be to opt for garlic vinegar instead, as the vinegar
is acidic, and doesn't allow the bacteria to thrive?

[http://food-hacks.wonderhowto.com/how-to/make-garlic-infused...](http://food-
hacks.wonderhowto.com/how-to/make-garlic-infused-olive-oil-vinegar-
home-0153966/)

edit, see also:
[http://nchfp.uga.edu/publications/uc_davis/uc_davis_garlic.p...](http://nchfp.uga.edu/publications/uc_davis/uc_davis_garlic.pdf)

------
jimrandomh
"They found the remedy killed up to 90% of MRSA bacteria"

I don't think that's strong enough to be useful. This might be interesting if
they can figure out the mechanism and use it to create a stronger antibiotic,
but for the stage this is actually at, they're really overselling it.

~~~
Someone1234
> but for the stage this is actually at, they're really overselling it.

What exactly is it you think they're "selling?" I thought the article was
focusing more on the historical significance of this, in particular how good
medical knowledge was 1,000 years ago.

You seem to be under the impression that they're suggesting this as a possible
cure for MRSA. But the article never stated that. They might be able to look
at the mechanism and develop something which could help us fight MRSA, but I
highly doubt they would use this exact 1K year old recipe 1:1 in a modern
hospital (and, again, the article never stated otherwise).

Seems like your criticism is largely based on things they never said nor
claimed. Essentially you're critical of a strawman.

~~~
nodata
> how good medical knowledge was 1,000 years ago.

Survivor bias.

------
Symmetry
Well then, hopefully some pharma company will create their own patented blend
called ONGARTA (TM) that they'll shepard through FDA trials so doctors can
prescribe it.

[http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/15/fish-now-by-
prescriptio...](http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/15/fish-now-by-
prescription/)

~~~
mikeyouse
That article's not very convincing..

Fish oil you get at Walgreens isn't regulated by the FDA and can be
dramatically different than what the label claims
([http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25604397](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25604397)).
Moreover, the $30/bottle fish oil is very low concentration, often 20% - 30%
PUFAs, and typically very highly oxidized.

Lovaza is 90% ethyl ester PUFAs and has been thoroughly tested to demonstrate
safety and efficacy
([http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2009/021...](http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2009/021654s023lbl.pdf)).

Will the $30/bottle Walgreen's Omega-3s be pretty close in effect to Lovaza?
Probably.. If you take 3x as many to match dosage and if you don't mind the
fishy smell and biproducts due to the AV/PV levels being off the charts.. but
there's still no guarantee.

------
rsuelzer
I'm unclear as to why or how this is entirely useful. This article is probably
missing some of the key findings that would make it interesting. In reality,
killing a MRSA bacteria culture is trivial and could be done by a child. The
real usefulness of this discovery would be if this liquid could be safely
ingested and produce antibiotic activity while in the body. Pouring something
like bleach, gasoline, hydrochloric acid, liquid nitrogen on MRSA cultures
will also kill them. But, but these things won't help treat a MRSA infection
in the body.

~~~
colah3
The article seems to suggest it is mostly of historical interest. The
researchers seem impressed by its effectiveness for a medicine of that time.

It's of further interest because it seems to have come out of a tradition of
medicine that was based on something similar to the scientific method.

------
russellallen
Oh for goodness sake. This isn't a medical trial of a new anti-MRSA drug. This
is an interesting piece of living history research into Anglo-Saxon medical
practices.

Bald's Leechbook is fascinating for many reasons. One in particular they refer
to in the article - the local Anglo-Saxon remedies are in general lacking in
theory and so more or less evidence based. Later medieval medicine was
possibly in many ways worse - Roman and Greek ideas of the four humours were
imported and applied as received truth. Later medicine was much more likely to
take the approach of "Who are ya going to believe? Aristotle or your lyin'
eyes?"

Anglo-Saxon medicine had no overarching theory to apply. So their salves and
potions and magic incantations tended to be adhoc, complicated, and,
occasionally, actually worked.

------
benmarks
_" They were 'astonished' to find it almost completely wiped out
staphylococcus aureus, otherwise known as MRSA."_

Not all _S. aureus_ is MRSA; wondering if this is just poor phrasing or if I'm
misunderstanding something.

~~~
kragen
My guess is that the article is written by idiots who have no business
attempting to popularize science they don't understand even the barest
outlines of.

~~~
vixen99
Use of the word 'idiot' usually heralds an intemperate blanket comment.

What popularization? The article merely and briefly reports what the
researchers said.'Experts from the university's microbiology team recreated
the remedy and then tested it on large cultures of MRSA'.

Where's the lack of understanding on the part of the BBC team? The effect of
the mixture may be found to be of no significant account (90% is not much) but
that's another story that's down to the researchers.

~~~
kragen
The stigmata of the lack of understanding were the item you mention (thinking
that 90% is a large reduction in an exponentially-growing population) and the
item mentioned upthread (conflating S. aureus in general with MRSA, an error
which has apparently been silently fixed in the article now). But those are
the things they _said_. We don’t know what things the reporters _didn’t_ say
because they didn’t understand that they were important when the researchers
said them. Perhaps, for example, the researchers addressed the question
mentioned elsewhere in the thread of whether you can actually put this salve
in your eyes without burning your corneas, or sterilize it and inject it into
your body; or whether it has some activity transdermally and could thus
perhaps be used to treat cellulitis. And I wouldn’t be surprised if someone
decides to mix up this stuff from the article and blinds themselves with
garlic.

And that, in a nutshell, is why I’m intemperate about ignorant journalists
blathering about medical science.

------
matznerd
Just want to make a note for you guys on allicin and garlic. Allicin doesn't
exist in garlic, but is created when alliin and a heat-sensitive enzyme called
alliinase come in contact with each other.

They do not mix until you slice, chew, cut or press the garlic and rupture the
barriers between them. They key is to wait 10 minutes after this process has
occurred until you cook it, or you will remove most of the benefit of allicin.
For example, putting freshly chopped garlic in the microwave for 30 seconds
will take away 90% of the potential allicin content due to the heat destroying
alliinase.

------
snowwrestler
Is it hard to kill MRSA in culture? Bleach will do it, for example, and I bet
100% alcohol would too. It's only resistant to known antibiotics, after all--
not immortal.

I think the news here is historical (hey this crazy recipe works), not medical
(hey this stuff might be better than anything we already know how to do).

------
drcube
As a kid I made "ant poison" by mixing various household chemicals and water
in a gallon jug. Then I'd pour it on ants. Sure enough, they died. Mostly by
drowning, but still. It worked.

I wouldn't be comfortable buying a pesticide based on that research, however.

~~~
romanovcode
Reminds me of saying that best way to kill HIV is with AK-47, now how do you
kill while leaving carrier alive - that's another question.

------
jacquesm
Earlier today:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9287514](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9287514)

------
seren
It does not tell us if it has some side-effects, like making you blind.
Chlorine probably also kills MSRA in a petri dish.

~~~
mynameismonkey
Anecdotal evidence of course, but I am happy to confirm I have ingested all
four ingredients on numerous occasions and am still alive (as of the time of
this posting).

~~~
sanoli
I know a cousin of a friend of mine who also ingested these ingredients. Still
anecdotal, though ;-)

~~~
refurb
Injested or put in his eye?

~~~
serf
oh, it's all perfectly in jest.

------
kazinator
The article has no information about how this is supposed to be used.

Can you inject this into the bloodstream to clear an MRSA infection?

If not, then it's only useful as a topical antiseptic, which isn't newsworthy,
since bleach, Lysol and various alcohols also kill MRSA.

------
timdiggerm
Very curious how important it is to get the wine from that particular vineyard

------
mattbgates
That's like using natural lemon juice to kill the bacteria that cause pink
eye.. great remedy: squeeze lemon juice in your eye (yes it will sting and
burn for a hot minute until you... ) run your eye under luke-warm to semi-hot
water, and within 2-3 days, no more pink eye. Antibiotics can take up to 10
days to rid pink eye.

~~~
morley
Are there any clinical studies that support that claim? A quick Google search
only turns up a bunch of specious "home remedy" sites, and an equally
suspicious doctor denouncing the practice.

~~~
nasmorn
The problem is that I don't think there is currently a possibility that a
clinical study for this could be funded. Government has all but withdrawn from
late stage studies and no company has anything to gain.

------
enlightenedfool
I thought...wth? these are first ingredients in every curry we make ... every
day. EDIT: I meant onion & garlic

~~~
equoid
Also turmeric which many uses in folk medicine for stomach and liver ailments.

------
wppick
We are insignificantly smarter today than we were 1000 years ago. Take a baby
from 1000 years ago and bring him to the year 2015, and he will probably be
able to fit into modern society perfectly fine.

~~~
daeken
The discoveries we make today aren't because we're smarter, but rather that we
have significantly more knowledge to work from.

~~~
wppick
That's not what I was saying. All I was saying is that people 1000 years ago
were innately as smart logically as you are today. I'm not talking about a
posteriori knowledge.

------
gus_massa
> _A 1,000-year-old treatment for eye infections could hold the key to killing
> antibiotic-resistant superbugs, experts have said._

The problem is that when this is used frequently, the superbugs will evolve to
survive to this treatment. If this result is confirmed, it will be good to
have another alternative, but the new alternative will not last forever.
(Perhaps 1000 years ago, there was a garlic-and-onion-resistant-superbug, and
with the years they lost the mutation to survive this treatment.)

> _They found the remedy killed up to 90% of MRSA bacteria and believe it is
> the effect of the recipe rather than one single ingredient._

Perhaps it a combination of a few drugs present in the ingredients, that can
be produced artificially

~~~
nkozyra
A couple of points:

1\. "Superbug" is just a modern construct of something that's been happening
(albeit at a slower pace) since bacteria - and human pathogens in general -
have existed. Garlic (and relatives) have faced this for just as long.

2\. Similar to the adaption of bacterium in #1, the biological victims have
adapted. That is, after all, while garlic has large amounts of allicin - a
wide-spectrum antibiotic - in the first place.

------
DigitalSea
... At least until doctors start prescribing onion and garlic for everything,
then we'll have to find something else that works.

------
kbart
Reminded me of [http://goo.gl/SOecWG](http://goo.gl/SOecWG)

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lkiernan
Anyone know where I can buy 1,000-year-old onions?

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mikecsh
This is tripe.

Obligatory XKCD: [https://xkcd.com/1217/](https://xkcd.com/1217/)

~~~
tootie
It's funny you call it tripe since it calls for cow stomach in the recipe.

~~~
FrankenPC
I was assuming it was good wordplay. The downvotes say otherwise.

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shimfish
"They found the remedy killed up to 90% of MRSA bacteria and believe it is the
effect of the recipe rather than one single ingredient."

Believe? Don't you want to like, um, test that? You know, science.

This whole thing stinks of research grant bait.

~~~
belthasar
One line up?

"In each case, they tested the individual ingredients against the bacteria, as
well as the remedy and a control solution."

