
Ask HN: Who here struck out on their own without a plan? - MrFoof
When I signed on with my current employer, I ensured that I wouldn't be prevented from working on something on the side.  I made it clear during the interview process that my intention was not to be there forever.  Recently, I submitted a disclosure regarding the side project and today it was just approved by the Legal and Compliance departments.<p>I've become disillusioned with my current work situation, which is better than most places, but still has the usual fundamental issues (project mismanagement) that won't be remedied in the next two to three years.  I've let some contacts know that I'm looking for a change of scenery while I work towards a release, however based on some events today, I'm strongly considering giving my immediate notice.  Tomorrow is Friday, so the opportunity is there.<p>Who here has done just that: Just up and quit, then didn't decide to take up another job?  (I've done part A without part B before)  If so, aside from the obvious need to immediately produce revenue, what did you take away from the experience?<p>Thanks in advance.
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zavulon
I kind of did, about a year ago -
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=941417>.

I didn't exactly have no plan whatsoever - I had a consulting company, and
another side business, but I was kidding myself when I thought I was "ramen
profitable". A few projects done for a couple of grand is NOT "ramen
profitable". But I was so sick and tired of burning away at Wall Street that I
just said "fuck it, I'm gonna do it".

After a year of working harder than I ever did at a Big Soul-Sucking Corp.,
I'm finally making some money. I experienced a situation where I didn't know
how I'm going to have rent money for the first time in my life, but that's
turned out to be not that bad.

I'm still not where I need to be - my main business is still working on custom
projects for clients, but I have a few sources of income, some more passive
than others, working on a startup, and definitely on the right track. But I've
learned more in the last year than at last 7 years spent at BigCo, having a
lot of fun, being my own boss, and it's awesome.

If I knew how hard it was gonna be, I probably wouldn't have done it. So my
advice - just dive in, you'll figure out a way to float somehow.

------
danilocampos
I had a decent job -- reasonably good pay, decent benefits, good people. But I
wanted to work in software and that just wasn't the role there. I was also
living in Orlando, which is a shithole, so something had to change.

I saved up $12,000 and quit last year, despite the terrifying economy. No real
plan beyond "do something interesting." Moved across the country, built iPhone
apps, had a good time. After about eight months, got bored, money got tight,
but no biggie -- I got a job at a startup. I couldn't have landed it without
everything I learned during my little adventure.

It's an amazing feeling – it's freedom. No one expecting you at any place or
any time. Just you, your motivation and whatever you're able to imagine.

If you've been working for the man for awhile, having 100% control of your
time can be weird. My advice would be to establish a routine and stick to it
like glue. If you've got a specific working space, make sure you're in it each
day at the same time. Eventually you'll be able to fully enjoy the
flexibility, but at first productivity will require you sticking to what you
understand as a working schedule. Modify this as you learn your natural
rhythms throughout the day. (ie: maybe you're a night owl, so you enjoy a bit
of work in the mid-morning and then a six hour burst later in the evening.)

Working at home is fine and all, but you might want to find a quiet,
productive place away from where you live. If you're near a nice library, this
is ideal. The change of scenery will help you stay sharp.

Give yourself a break, if it's at all possible. I used the flexibility that
self-direction bought me to go to Europe for a couple of weeks. It recharged
my soul. Some kind of adventure will do you good if you've been following
other people's rules and direction for any lengthy period of time.

Most importantly, set clear goals for yourself when you're ready to get down
to work. I didn't always do this and my work suffered. Even if you're working
by yourself, a little scrum action might do you some good: plan weekly sprints
and do a little standup with yourself each morning or evening to review your
progress. You're your boss now – no one else will hold you accountable.

Good luck. It's a bit risky, sure, but a great feeling.

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omnigoat
Oh, coincidence. I did this about twelve minutes ago.

Yes, I've just tendered my resignation. I work in a large, large company. The
place is okay, the people are good, the code is fine I guess. I just wanted a
change of direction. I started in videogames, and compared to that, this job
feels far more... stuffy. And boring. Anyhow, I wanted a shot at starting my
own business writing web apps. I literally do _not_ know: javascript, ruby
(therefore rails), much of linux, or webservers (well, I've _heard_ of a whole
bunch).

But hey, I have good savings, I have low rent, I have a nice computer, and in
addition - unlike when I was working in videogames - I have a sleep-cycle that
has me up at 8:00am every day.

As for the actual experience, I've just informed my direct lead, and we'll
have to talk to the head of our department later today. I guess I'll let you
know how it goes!

~~~
tdfx
Good for you.

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dpcan
8 years ago. I had a 1 year old son. Just married. Wanted to be my own man,
run my own company, do my own thing. I wanted my son to see me as a man who
goes after his dreams.

So, I just did it. Took on some consulting work, and then spread the word of
what I could do. Gets better every year. Not so much consulting now, more
residual income from software and hosted services, and android game
development, but it's a living and a lifestyle.

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iamwil
I have. Depends on what your goals are when you quit.

For me, it was to do a startup, but I made some fundamental mistakes along the
way.

I spent a good chunk of time learning how to build. Before then, I had never
built something from the ground up. So that was good.

However, there's a bunch of stuff outside of coding that I didn't know. The
biggest thing was I didn't know anything about customer acquisition. Once I
built something, I had no idea how to drive people to it.

The others are usual mistakes. Not finding another cofounder sooner. Not
moving to Silicon Valley. Of course, you'll have people that say you don't
need a cofounder or that you don't need silicon valley, but I've found both to
be tremendously helpful. So, know yourself and what you need.

As long as you know what your goals are when you quit and work towards it,
you'll be fine. If anything, it'll give you time to build skills or notoriety.

------
coryl
I've never been in the situation you're in, so I can't say my advice is
particularly worth much.

But don't make important decisions based on emotion. Especially if you don't
have something lined up (unless you're good for cash). In your described
situation, it doesn't look like the benefits of quitting immediately outweigh
the cons. The weekend is coming, why not use that time to think about what you
really want to do?

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biznickman
I did, however you never really "quit", especially if you are at risk of going
broke. I went broke about 6 times after quitting, however if you are a
developer (like most people on here), then you probably have a skill that you
can use to get work on the side. That side work is critical to getting your
business off the ground. That's because most businesses you start won't be
paying the bills in the immediate future.

Even worse, they need money! I actually successfully managed to get to an
exit, however I now advise other people to work as long as they possibly can
before they quit their job. I know how lucky I got and I also know how many
times I literally was days away from being completely broke.

Then again, perhaps those moments are what makes the entrepreneur. I do think
that having a plan would be useful. While your plan won't be accurate, at
least you can think through all the steps you need to take for the foreseeable
future.

Also ... try to have 6 months runway if you can (I know, that's a luxury).

Create a plan, begin executing and then go after it. The worst case scenario,
you have to get a job again. The last thing you want to be is in a position 10
years from now asking yourself "Why the hell didn't I do it?"

The only other thing is to make sure you take care of your basic needs
(health, etc). I've made the mistake and have met others that have put their
business before themselves and it helped nobody. Aside from that ... best of
luck!! You're in good company on this site!

Any other rules I try to artificially create can instantly be broken so I'll
stop providing advice

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danspodcast
I did this about 2.5 years ago: I was just totally drained I figured I knew
enough to get something else started, I was pretty much prepared to sleep on a
friend's or family member's couch until I could make money doing some online
marketing. I had no money but I couldn't imagine another year in the office.
When I walked in to quit my job my boss wasn't expecting it (tad different
from your scenario) so started to drill down why I was leaving-- for me it
amounted to not being able to have freedom of movement and work when I want
etc. The office was killing me. We ended up hammering out a remote working
arrangement that has served me well and allowed me to get a bunch of other
projects off the ground. I wouldn't have predicted this opportunity to come
up, so I guess I benefited from a classic case of "you need to close one door
to open others..." Not sure if that's helpful, but I find when you are done
emotionally in a job or project compromise can be a killer especially for
people with the creative entrepreneurial spark.

------
el_chapitan
I did it.

I was completely burned out. I had actually had a hospital visit due to
stress, and ended up still working another 5 months after that (3 of those
after I told the company I was quitting and converted to a consultant, working
just as many hours but getting paid hourly instead of salary).

The good part there is that I had a nice cushion to land on and do nothing for
about a month. At the end of the month I had a little bit of ambition back,
and decided to do some small consulting gigs to make the cushion last a bit
longer while doing less than full time work. This lasted far longer than I
wanted, but unfortunately, I hadn't gotten enough of a client base to kick
back into gear when I needed it. Luckily, a long term client showed up right
when i needed it, otherwise I'd probably be back having a real job again. I'm
much happier with my current arrangement, in that regard.

The lesson to be learned from me? You can head out w/o a plan, but you should
probably form one and execute on it while your surviving on your savings.

------
toast76
I quit a job of 7 years with no plan of what to do next. My wife (but wasn't a
wife yet) had a reasonable job, and we figured if ever there was a time to
take a risk, that was it.

For three years now, we've lived on the philosophy of "if we stop making money
today, we have X months left before I have to go get a job". At the end of
each month we reassess that, and fortunately we're still doing ok. If nothing
else, my work is a hobby that makes us money. I doubt I'll ever get rich from
fivesecondtest.com, but it's something to be proud of, and that's more than
you'll get working for someone else.

If you think you COULD get another job in a pinch, then really you have zero
risk providing you have either a decent amount of money saved or have few
financial commitments.

~~~
petervandijck
<http://usabilityhub.com/account/logon/> is unstyled right now (no css), btw.

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dannyr
I quit my job without any plans last July.

I had a conversation with the CEO and the company environment he wants to
build is not what I wanted to be in. I gave my two weeks notice the next day.

I had no idea what to do but it just happens that a good friend of mine is
looking to start something. I asked him to be my cofounder and now, I'm
finally doing what I have always wanted to do.

I still work part-time just to pay the bills. We're building the product and
trying to find customers. Once I put more money in the bank, I'll be full-time
on the startup.

------
delano
Do what you need to do, just don't burn your bridges.

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endlessvoid94
I graduated from college, sold everything I owned, and drove across the
country to San Francisco.

Months later, I have advertising income from www.ThatHigh.com that generates
enough money to pay my rent and food. I now spend all my time working on
Djangy.com - private beta invites coming very, very soon!!

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cageface
I ended ten years of employment in July. Burnout was killing my motivation to
code at all and I gradually came to realize how damaging this could be.

My plan is to take a sabbatical, travel a bit, and recharge my intellectual
batteries by learning a new language and a new problem domain. So far the
hardest part has been sticking to my guns and turning down new job offers.

This TED talk makes a good case for this:
[http://www.ted.com/talks/stefan_sagmeister_the_power_of_time...](http://www.ted.com/talks/stefan_sagmeister_the_power_of_time_off.html)

~~~
henry81
I haven't viewed your video yet (bookmarked it) but I am completely on the
same page as you. I am soooo burned out, have worked 11 years. In short,
something isn't right and I'm not happy. I'm out of here in November.

~~~
cageface
Think about it this way. As a programmer, the future of your career _depends_
on your ability to keep learning new things and to stay on top of new
technology. Anything that threatens your ability or motivation to do that is
very dangerous.

It's easy to get comfortable in a good gig, particularly if the pay is high
and the work isn't too onerous, but this is a trap if it means you wind up
doing the same thing for too long.

------
petercooper
I've been doing that constantly since 1999 when I quit a job with no safety
net other than being only 17 years old and still living at home.

Since then, I've rarely any medium or long-term plans, just flitting from
opportunity to opportunity as it presents itself. I'm here, doing well - now
married, have child, have a mortgage, and still as aimless as ever ;-) If
you're self motivated and a little hungry, things stick together.

------
Deejahll
Right now!

Only possible because my wife saved up a bunch of money while I was working.
Now we're burning through that, I'm updating my portfolio, blowing the dust
and cobwebs off several startup ideas I had shelved for so long. No income
yet; I'm going to start aggressively looking for consulting work as soon as
the portfolio is up. I've had a couple "fell in my lap" job leads from friends
but none are in my area and I can't move right now.

I'm hoping to hit some kind of rhythm where I'm able to stay just afloat with
a part-time contract work, and the rest of my time I can spend time 1. with
the wife and 2. exploring my experimental software ideas.

My mantra and rationale remains unchanged: even if I fail at this little
adventure and go broke and have to panic and reorganize my life, that in
itself will be a lot more fulfilling and exciting than the burnt-out,
depressed place I was in at my former job.

I've heard that when skydiving, once you reach terminal velocity it's becomes
less frightening. So it doesn't feel too bad right now. But I'm entirely aware
that the ground is quite hard and only a few thousand feet, er, dollars away.

Best of luck to you!

------
xenophanes
IMO, for most people, having an expensive lifestyle is not worth working at
lot. Just save money, quit and live cheap for a while.

~~~
cageface
It seems to me that most people are happy to put up with long hours at a
stressful or boring job in exchange for a cushy lifestyle. If you're willing
to forgo the big house, nice car and 42" plasma screen you can buy yourself
some extra freedom though.

~~~
xenophanes
I don't think they're really happy. Some are; lots aren't.

------
davidu
All that you have to consider is how much you burn on a monthly basis and how
long you can sustain to focus on your endeavor without any stable source of
income.

Having full-time to focus on your plans will help, if you can afford to not be
making money for some period of time.

------
mhd
Some of you already mentioned it in their posts, but for those who didn't: Who
did it when you were in your 30s? 40s?

Striking out on your own is _a lot_ easier when you're leaving your first or
second job. When you've got family and/or are on your way up the "corporate
ladder", the incentives for swallowing your ambitions and sticking to your
current job seem bigger.

Which is kinda sad, as by then you should have a bigger appreciation of time,
and what it means to waste it.

So, as someone who has his first 10 years of corporate work under his belt and
doesn't want another 10 of working for someone else: Who's a late starter,
too?

------
petervandijck
I actually did that a few months back, but got a counteroffer I couldn't
refuse (a really awesome deal).

------
petervandijck
"the obvious need to immediately produce revenue" -> so no savings at all?

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jw84
I would make a flowchart but here goes:

Are you a good engineer? If yes you can work elsewhere.

Do you have good rapport with your managers? If yes you will have decent
references.

Are you well known or popular? If yes most people will applaud your courage.

Do you have money saved up? If yes you have a small runway to figure out what
you really want.

Life's too short to hate your life.

~~~
MrFoof
So as I've mentioned, I've done this before without the "work for myself"
part. Twice actually.

One of the contacts I made today was the only technical recruiter I've ever
met that understands the industry he caters to. I'm looking on my own, but he
has a nose for finding much better than average gigs. I'm not relying on him,
but he has exclusive access to a fair number of decent companies which quickly
broadens my search.

Managers can't complain. Heck, one of the partners went out of his way to
write my review. Partners don't write reviews. He did it to make a point.
However, constantly going the extra mile has me physically and emotionally
exhausted, and I see no chance for relief until mid-2011.

\-----

I keep my foundation expenses to a minimum, and normally save 30-40% of my
paycheck, but numerous mishaps this year have effectively wiped out most of
this year's efforts. My health is currently of concern (despite being in my
late 20s and reasonably good physical fitness), so that's what's giving me
pause as I investigate those options. That and sacrificing my bonus and 401K
match (7% of compensation), though at this point I'm willing to eat that.

\-----

The intention is mobile games. It's something I can do entirely by myself,
save for paying a college student for help with the first year or two of
getting my tax nonsense in order. No direct customers to deal with. Tools and
hardware that doesn't suck. Development costs are negligible. I have a
detailed concept, and overall complexity isn't much more than something out of
the NES era -- much of the effort will be re-learning my drawing skills, and
incessant polishing. The overall scope is very realistic for a single person
to push out in 4 months.

Originally the plan was to release on the side with the hope of eventually
covering most, if not all, of my foundation expenses so I can save more
aggressively. However stress has me past my breaking point -- I'm already
broken. I doubt more work is an ideal solution, but a relaxed pace and being
able to release something that meets my standards is a change of pace I sorely
need. So either I continue to crank for the office while cranking for myself,
or I tell them I'll build my own lunar lander... with blackjack... and
hookers!

