
China’s surveillance state has created at least four billionaires - metaphysics
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-21/big-brother-billionaires-get-rich-as-china-watches-everyone
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caithrin
Writing this from China- it’s hard to really understand how little the Chinese
seem to care about any of this. The systems that so obsess western writers
seem to have absolutely no effect on Chinese society, and the majority of
these new systems seem to be replacing similar but more intrusive systems of
human-to-human checks. The concerns are warranted, but the interest approaches
zero in the culture here.

~~~
PakG1
You have a completely different worldview, a completely different education, a
completely different history, and a completely different upbringing.

For example, China never had the Magna Carta event that Western civilization
had centuries ago, enabling a foundationally disparate view of government and
society eons ago.

This is not a criticism of you. It's an explanation why you can't understand.
You need to transplant yourself into Chinese history to understand its people.
That in turn will help you understand its domestic policy, economic policy,
foreign policy, and more.

Have gone through that process myself, lived in China for almost a decade now.
I also didn't get it at the beginning. I'm an overall China bear, think its
final destination is to be like Japan, but mainly due to secular trends beyond
China's control. That doesn't stop me from figuring out things that I didn't
know before. It's weirdly educational, as I didn't realize how intellectually
arrogant, ignorant, and unwilling to consider other perspectives I was before.
Perhaps still am. :)

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taway483
I think you do a great disservice to the Chinese people by assuming that they
don't care or that they support it. The fact is that they're helpless. They
have nothing to gain by expressing their true beliefs and everything to lose.
I have many Chinese friends and they all either post government propaganda
(that they don't believe in or support) on weixin or stay quiet. Why? Because
it will be seen by their families, friends, classmates, professors, coworkers,
bosses, etc. When they go travel, want to get a loan, a promotion, etc. then
it will play a major role.

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PakG1
What can I say? My Chinese friends who like the job their government is doing
outweigh my Chinese friends who don't. Want to compare numbers and
demographics? I've accumulated a fair number of Chinese friends from all walks
of life in multiple cities in multiple regions across the country, both very
rich and very poor. When you speak of me doing a great disservice, it speaks
of a moral superiority in your mind. I used to think like that. Now I feel
like I understand Chinese society better. I don't agree with much of it, it
still doesn't match my values. But I do understand it better than before, even
if I disagree with it.

~~~
logicchains
I have a fair few Chinese friends and have found something similar. Sure, I
know a few Chinese who are desparately trying to do whatever they can to
emigrate from China, but I also know quite a few who studied/worked overseas
and then returned to China because they prefer the conditions there. They
recognise some problems with how things are in China, but view the problems
overseas as greater.

America for instance is perceived to be a more dangerous place to live. By
official numbers (which is what people see), you're much more likely to be
raped or murdered in a big American city than in a Chinese one. The streets
aren't covered with homeless people, used needles and human faeces in China.
You don't get $x0,000 healthcare bills for simple procedures in China. Big
Chinese cities don't have "no-go zones". Your kids won't be bullied for
academic success, they'll be bullied for academic failure. Your kids are much
less likely to be exposed to hard drugs and drug users in high school. Sure,
this may not actually be due to the efforts of the authoritarian government,
but that doesn't stop people crediting the government for it.

Europe is also seen as dangerous. There is no political correctness in China,
and many middle class Chinese fall relatively far to the right of the
political spectrum by western standards, viewing Europe as a failing state
ravaged by Muslim immigrants and undermined by its coddling welfare policies.
A Chinese friend, who grew up in a relatively poor part of China but is now
stably middle-class, recently went on holiday to Italy, and one of the first
things they said when they returned was that they were shocked by how poor
everybody seemed there.

For ambitious Chinese, many feel they have a bigger chance of making it big in
China. Count the number of ethnically Chinese tech company CEOs in Chinese
companies vs US companies, for instance. The "bamboo ceiling" is not present
in China, and due to the population the sheer number of job opportunities for
professionals is bigger than most other countries can offer.

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PakG1
_> > For ambitious Chinese, many feel they have a bigger chance of making it
big in China. Count the number of ethnically Chinese tech company CEOs in
Chinese companies vs US companies, for instance._

You were expecting Chinese tech companies to mostly have non-Chinese CEOs? ;)

