
This Page Is Anonymous (2013) - oftenwrong
http://voidnull.sdf.org/
======
peteretep
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5638988](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5638988)

243 comments from 6 years ago

~~~
Nition
I notice a user was offering to contribute one bitcoin to the reward there,
upping its value in present-day terms by $9000. At the time, it would have
been worth around $135.

------
oil25
> ssh -o ProxyCommand="nc -X 4 -x localhost:9050 %h %p" sdf.org

This will send a DNS A record request for sdf.org and on some platforms, a
request for SSHFP records, too. Unless the system is configured to route all
DNS traffic over Tor, it may be possible to correlate those requests'
originating IP with the published update timestamps.

~~~
hnarn
> Unless the system is configured to route all DNS traffic over Tor

Edge cases like this is why I always use things like Tails when I want to do
something over Tor. There are just too many gotchas, and many of them are
barely even avoidable in the first place (like correlating timestamps).

------
p4bl0
I've known about sdf.org for a long time because they advertise in 2600. It's
the kind of service that makes me so happy it exists to the point that it kind
of makes me sad that I personally have no use for it :).

~~~
dmcdm
Yeah, this gives me temendous nostalgia. SDF was my first introduction to
Unix, must have been 12 or 13 years old at the time. I'm almost giddy when I
find these sorts of early internet systems / services are still online.

------
espeed
Analyze voidnull's use of pronouns and do a sim search over other users'
accounts on HN and the Web.

"Our most forgettable words, such as pronouns and prepositions, can be the
most revealing: their patterns are as distinctive as fingerprints." [1] - Prof
James W. Pennebaker

[1]
[https://www.secretlifeofpronouns.com](https://www.secretlifeofpronouns.com)

~~~
hnarn
I haven't read the book, but does it talk about whether it's possible to
"fake" the way you write? I'd also be interested in whether it explored the
way people write in web communities, I have a strong feeling people change
their tone and phrasing based on the audience (especially when upvoted and
downvotes are involved).

~~~
shapiro92
i would go through a loop of translating the documenting using online
translators between X languages. It will create syntax errors but will provide
maybe some "hashing"

------
schoen
Since this also mentions the HN account

[https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=voidnull](https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=voidnull)

could any HN moderator comment on the status of that account?

~~~
dang
It's fine and was always fine. Probably it got affected by a software filter
at some point when it was new, but a moderator marked it legit so that
wouldn't happen again.

~~~
schoen
Thanks!

------
espeed
Evidently 'adnam [1] (adnam@sdf) [2] is Adam Hayward [3].

The bike in the pic is a Dahon [4] folding bike.

Adam's freeshell site [5] contains a password-protected link to his CV
(request sent).

Here's an archive of his Bristol University Information Technology Society
(BITS) homepage from 2002 [6].

Adnam is "a nickname given to me by some mates in Cambridge" [7].

And here's the analog site stat logs for requests from Tue-08-Feb-2000 15:16
to Mon-08-Apr-2002 13:09 (789.91 days). [8]

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5639997](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5639997)

[2]
[https://sdf.org/tour/sdfers/gen.cgi?adnam@sdf](https://sdf.org/tour/sdfers/gen.cgi?adnam@sdf)

[3]
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/adnam/16677188/](https://www.flickr.com/photos/adnam/16677188/)

[4] [https://dahon.com/bike/](https://dahon.com/bike/)

[5] [http://adam.freeshell.org/](http://adam.freeshell.org/)

[6]
[https://web.archive.org/web/20020201220147/http://bits.bris....](https://web.archive.org/web/20020201220147/http://bits.bris.ac.uk/adnam/)

[7]
[https://web.archive.org/web/20020211221929/http://www.bits.b...](https://web.archive.org/web/20020211221929/http://www.bits.bris.ac.uk/adnam/about/)

[8]
[https://web.archive.org/web/20031112001318/http://www.bits.b...](https://web.archive.org/web/20031112001318/http://www.bits.bris.ac.uk/adnam/stuff/?page=log)

------
meruru
Correct me if I'm wrong, but any VPS that accepts cryptocoins is basically the
same thing. Is this special in some way?

~~~
mirimir
The anonymity of sdf.org accounts and VPS/servers are all limited by
association through access and payment. Tor is arguably the most anonymous
access method for any of them. Excluding login chaining via Tor through
botnets and compromised servers, anyway.

If done carefully, using well-mixed Bitcoin is arguably as anonymous as
sending cash through the mail. There are ways to screw both up, but also ways
to do both with arbitrary overkill.

Anyway, this is cool. I mean, six years is an OK run. But on the other hand,
all remote VPS and servers that I setup are just about as anonymous. And yes,
it's lots easier now than it was in 2013.

------
tomglynch
This is great - no success since 2013.

~~~
rossdavidh
Do we know that? I, at any rate, have no way of knowing that.

~~~
nydel
we do know, as far as proving a negative goes anyhow; i’m a sdf member &
volunteer ... the voidnull page has never been put away for too long & if
anyone was able to deobfuscate the user’s identity beyond the website page
proper it would be a whole exciting todo for our community.

if it becomes 2023, and if by then nobody’s doxed voidnull i think a special
edition “everyone wins especially voidnull sdf forever” mug &or hoodie would
be in order!

------
ikeboy
Seems long enough that a future AI could connect writing style to other people
writing about privacy during this time using an offline copy of the internet.

~~~
clubm8
Maybe not :-)

[https://github.com/psal/anonymouth](https://github.com/psal/anonymouth)

~~~
ikeboy
Seems unlikely they would use this and not mention it. Besides, it reads
naturally.

I've read spun spam emails, you can easily tell something's off.

------
clubm8
This is super interesting, brings back memories. We take for granted how easy
anonymity is in age when anyone can spoof their MAC address at a public wifi
point and be fairly anonymous.

Question: Is there a technical reason the author does not suggest simply using
torsocks? (eg: torsocks ssh sdf.org). I thought maybe it didn't exist in 2013
but the github has some files that date back that far.

~~~
mirimir
It's generally safer to use torsocks, because it routes DNS queries via Tor.
As oil25 notes, using the ProxyCommand option doesn't. However, it's possible
that torsocks in 2013 didn't reliably block DNS leaks.

In any case, Whonix was available in 2013, and using it would have -- and does
-- prevent DNS leaks.

------
ALittleLight
I don't understand the part about 1 dollar donations. Surely that can't be
enough money to do much of anything given how rare I imagine it is for people
to create an account.

(Though I'm personally tempted to.)

~~~
ohithereyou
The $1 donation is just there to prevent people from mass-creating new
accounts. It can be waived if someone vouches for you.

The non-ARPA and above users are somewhat limited in what they can do[0].

I've been a card-carrying metaSDF user since 2006 and it's a wonderful $HOME
away from home.

[0] [https://sdf.org/?faq?MEMBERS?01](https://sdf.org/?faq?MEMBERS?01)

------
sdf_pubnix
[http://voidnull.sdf.org](http://voidnull.sdf.org) is probably still a thing.
No one has asked us for that $100 smj promised. Happy 32nd year, SDF.

~~~
nydel
nydel@sdf pledges an additional usd100.

signed. j r nydel t.

------
dontbenebby
Is it not allowed to have an anonymous HN account?

~~~
dang
Of course it is. We don't ask for names. We don't even have a way for users to
give us their name, unless they choose to publish it via their username or the
About field of their profile.

~~~
dontbenebby
Thanks!

I thought maybe "HN is a community—users should have an identity that others
can relate to." meant our nyms should point to a real person, and that the
account mentioned in the article was terminated for being registered via Tor.

I try to find the middle ground with this account.

You can probably find out who I am, but I hope people will respect it's
important to have nyms where we can have informal convos. (Also luckily most
snoopers are lazy so simply not tying my legal name to this is sufficient
considering I'm not expressing anything particularly controversial...)

Kind of like how half of Gotham seems to know who Batman is, but they pretend
not to ;)

~~~
meruru
I have several completely anonymous accounts on HN all registered and used
through Tor. It has never been a problem.

~~~
mirimir
Did you need to request that accounts created via Tor be un-shadow-banned?

~~~
meruru
No, I'm not aware of ever being shadowbanned and I think I would realize if I
were since I often browse logged out.

------
mikorym
So, as far as we can tell, voidnull's identity has still not been unmasked.

~~~
nydel
voidnull's anonymous page has been my mood ring for about six years.

on good days i visit and appreciate the accomplishment + appreciate that our
good ol' SDF is a public access multi-user system on which such a feat is
possible!

on bad days i start thinking about writing evil sudos and shit, just grasping
at straws.. that f'king page done been mockin' me since 2013 :P

on today, i love seeing the spirits of HN & SDF intersect!

so many incredibly insightful, funny, creative approaches abound in this
comment section. warms my heart!

------
ikeboy
Will they block an account for spam? Government requests? High usage rates?
Etc

~~~
ohithereyou
They explain their policies here[0]. Notable is:

>Any illegal activities which includes, but certainly isn't limited to
spamming, portflooding, portscanning, unauthorised connections to remote hosts
and any sort of scam can really not be tolerated here. Why? Because there are
many here on this system that can suffer from this sort of abuse. If you want
to use SDF, you really have to care about this system and the people here. If
you don't want to care, then you really shouldn't use this resource.

[0] [https://sdf.org/?faq?BASICS?04](https://sdf.org/?faq?BASICS?04)

------
mygo
> I did not lick the envelope

So what if he did? Even if we had his DNA, we wouldn’t know whose DNA it is.
It would be as useful as finding a key on the ground without knowing which
house it unlocks.

~~~
macintux
Seems safe to assume we could identify nearly anyone these days using DNA
thanks to the services that collect such information for genealogical or
medical purposes.

~~~
mygo
Yep the only way to identify someone with DNA from an unknown source is to
already have a copy of their DNA on record, that you know is theirs. Or maybe
a close relative’s DNA on record.

It would depend on the country whether or not their DNA is likely on record.
Most Americans do not have their DNA on record. However it’s interesting that
Kenya recently required collection of DNA from all citizens.

But yep those who have signed up for 23 and Me with their real name (or maybe
a close relative) can be identified from an anonymous DNA sample. Or
previously incarcerated, since then the government would have their DNA on
record.

Or if they were already a suspect, then their DNA could then be taken and
matched against the anonymous sample.

So maybe by disclosing that he didn’t lick the envelope, he’s inadvertently
telling us that his DNA is on record somewhere?

~~~
colinhb
In the US, enough people have submitted DNA to 23andMe, Ancestry, GED match,
etc., that a random DNA sample can be identified by so-called “genetic
genealogy” methods.

Basically because your generic relatives have submitted their DNA to these
services, a small pool of potential candidates for your DNA can be identified,
and traditional investigation methods can identify you in that pool.

As the density of people who have submitted DNA to these services increases in
the total population, identifying random samples will be easier. (It is
already getting easier.)

These techniques were publicized with the Golden State Killer case but have
been used in several other law enforcement investigations.

My contact with this field is mostly through friends in the industry, but The
Daily podcast’s series on it seemed like a good introduction:

[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/06/podcasts/the-daily/dna-
ge...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/06/podcasts/the-daily/dna-genealogy-
crime.html)

