
Entire staffs at 3 Sonic locations quit after wages cut to '$4/hour plus tips' - willart4food
https://kutv.com/news/offbeat/entire-staffs-at-3-sonic-locations-quit-after-wages-cut-to-4hour-plus-tips
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norswap
I'm fascinated that the only source for the 4$/hour + tips is a tweet. As far
as I can tell, that's it. In fact, the article doesn't even make the claim,
just republishes the tweet.

The Sonic statements says no wage have decreased, but this is not pointed out,
fact-checked or commented on.

Real good journalistic work.

And to be honest, the strategy works. The fact that it (hopefully temporarily)
cracked HN's frontpage is testament to that.

~~~
0x8BADF00D
It looks like they reclassified their employees. The Ohio state min wage is
$8.55/hr for employees, but if your employees can get tips, you only need to
pay $4.30/hr.[0]

[0][https://www.com.ohio.gov/documents/dico_2019Minimumwageposte...](https://www.com.ohio.gov/documents/dico_2019Minimumwageposter.pdf)

~~~
reboog711
As I understood, if an tipped employee's salary is below the minimum wage the
employer must make up the difference; so the employee would still be making
minimum wage.

~~~
cannonedhamster
HAHAHAHAHAHA. No, no employer does this. If you don't like it there's the
door. Good luck proving you're not hiding money. You still have to pay taxes
as if you were tipped as well. Tipping should just be outlawed.

~~~
karolg
I'm amazed that this f __cked up system of obligatory tipping is still in use
in US.

~~~
speedplane
I'm always amazed when others are astonished of the "ridiculousness" of
restaurant tipping in the U.S. It's a well understood social convention that
everyone follows, creates an incentive for waiters to treat guests well, and
creates a more direct connection between a patron and server.

There have been many cases of restaurants that have removed tipping, only to
go back at the behest of their staff because waiters made more money from tips
than from a higher hourly salary. This makes sense too, if a waiter is
incentivized for tips, they will quickly learn how to nudge customers into
getting more.

So waiters make more tipping, and U.S. customers accept it as a social norm.
What's the problem?

The problem is that it opens restaurant employees up to abuse and
discrimination. In most companies, if a client starts abusing an employee,
managers can offer some level of protection and insulation, either by
inserting themselves or in extreme cases, dropping the client. A restaurant
offers far less insulation to waiters/waitresses, which makes it harder to
combat entrenched discrimination. This abdication of responsibility arguably
reinforces such discrimination, which can have wider effects than just in a
restaurant.

This is a problem that needs fixing, but given that waiters/waitresses are
often towards the bottom of the economic totem pole, and plenty of other of
areas need fixing too, forcing unwanted change on them for some greater moral
good before others seems wrong in itself.

~~~
cannonedhamster
Good service should be the norm. They don't get the same minimum wage and
service levels are arbitrary. You don't actually seem to understand some
things about waiting.

Higher wages only occur in places with higher food prices. Diners and the like
often don't make much over minimum wage. Try making a decent wage at a place
like a Waffle House. Great greasy diner food a a low cost, which means the
waitstaff make nil in tips unless they make it up in volume. Some places also
force waiters to pay for dine and dashers. The legality of this is
questionable but it definitely happens.

The solution is to remove the tipping minimum wage. If customers then want to
provide a tip above and beyond that wage level for exceptional service, fine,
but removing the tipping minimum wage would allow for more stable wages, would
improve the bottom end of the wages, help with lower hours, etc. This way it
removes the arbitrary lower wages that might come from discrimination, foreign
eaters, management issues, etc. Prices would go up everywhere, normalizing the
costs.

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toomuchtodo
Proof collective action works. The PR was so bad, corporate stepped in and and
exercised their right to forcibly acquire the locations in question back from
the franchisee. The workers have been offered their jobs back as well.

“Additionally, with the ownership change, employees may now have their
paycheck direct deposited and general managers are now eligible for a new
bonus program, among other benefits.”

~~~
NoblePublius
That’s not how I read it. What I read is that the entire story is wrong, no
one’s pay is cut, and the reason these signs were posted is unclear. What am I
missing?

~~~
toomuchtodo
What I read was that the franchisee who made the labor decision has lost their
franchises, the ownership of which has been transferred to a preferred
corporate partner.

“Thank you for your inquiry about the about the eight Sonic Drive-Ins in the
Columbus, Ohio market that have changed ownership from a franchisee to Sonic’s
operating affiliate, SRI Holding Company (SRI) as of Monday, February 25.”

It’s effectively a contractual death penalty for a franchisee (not an uncommon
component of franchise agreements as it relates to bad PR or egregious
business practices).

~~~
orblivion
This story is (maybe after update?) dated March 1. The official statement is
dated February 25. The tweet with the picture is dated Feb 23rd.

Not sure which interpretation to take.

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thelasthuman
When the people have nothing left to lose, they will make the right choice and
strike.

The key is to give the working class the slightest bit of hope to cling onto.

People will accept lots of abuse if they think there is still a chance of
making it in life if they obey their masters.

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0x8BADF00D
Pretty fucked up if you think about it. In order to circumvent minimum wage
laws, they reclassified their employees as tipped employees, thus exempting
them from having to pay state minimum wage. These types of practices are
common in third world countries. It would seem the US has dropped from a
developed nation to a developing one. This is also further proof that a
minimum wage doesn’t work. The free market should decide the fair market value
of a laborer.

~~~
perfmode
I was with you until the last sentence.

Furthermore, in the United States, what we have doesnt even resemble a free
market.

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HaloZero
I'm not sure about Ohio but I thought the rule was that you were obligated to
pay out the difference if tips don't make them go to minimum wage.

So was this policy from the new owners just a way to slightly reduce costs.
From any tips the employees got? Do fast food workers get tips? It seems....
so cheap.

~~~
techsupporter
> the rule was that you were obligated to pay out the difference if tips don't
> make them go to minimum wage

That is the rule but, practically speaking, the fastest way to get permanently
fired and more-or-less blackballed from ever working in foodservice again is
to complain to management (and, worse, the government) about getting shorted
on wages due to low tips. So few people do it if they need the job.

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foota
It's not clear, but I think what happened may be:

1\. Restaurant ownership changed 2\. New owners set wages at min(4 + tips, 8)
instead of 8 + tips. 3\. Staff quit

Technically, the minimum amount earned didn't change, but they'd be making
less if they got any tips?

~~~
tyingq
It hits them twice. Counting tips means higher taxes. It shouldn't, but the
reality is tipped employees underreport if they can, mostly.

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gesman
If this cut to $4/hr is indeed true and documented act by the management -
they'll soon be using their savings to pay for own legal bills.

However - better wait for the full and well-researched story to follow ...

