
Dot Watch – A braille and tactile smartwatch - DanBC
http://fingerson.strikingly.com/
======
falcolas
A smartwatch for vision impaired, advertised a website without a lot of
accessibility provisions (not to mention the scrolljacking and "are you sure
you want to leave" onexit hooks).

What a world we live in.

~~~
xjconlyme
The onexit hook is surprisingly caused by the embedded Google form.

[https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScqZJxEjHf6j66cX8wy...](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScqZJxEjHf6j66cX8wynAwxu7TcLGmEk7dk6xJd_04Fw-
TW4w/viewform?c=0&w=1)

That message doesn't make any sense since I didn't even touch the form.

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timthelion
Please don't share sites like this. This is a common theme. People advertise
"revolutionary products" for blind people, whithout actually explaining what
kind of microactuators they use. I am 99% sure this is a fake non-invention
that does not exist.

~~~
sleepychu
In the video on the linked page they show several blind people using the
watch, they seem genuinely surprised at the information they read from its
face. Do you suspect this to be faked?

~~~
timthelion
Yes, I believe it is faked. I worked in the braille community for years and
micro-actuators that actually work are like a holy grail. If they had one that
actually worked, they would be plastering their site with descriptions of
their new world changing mirco-actuation mechanism. They don't show a real
video of it actuating. It just makes no sense. Its like if you invented fusion
power and spent the entire time showing videos of smiling kids next to dish
washers, and never even tried to explain the breakthrough for the containment
material.

~~~
tzm
Here's a video:
[https://www.facebook.com/dotsmartbraillewatch/videos/1113611...](https://www.facebook.com/dotsmartbraillewatch/videos/1113611635421217/)

~~~
Jill_the_Pill
The video helps, since the watch face shown on the web page has only 2.5
braille characters to each side of the divider line. I was wondering how that
could possibly work, but in the video, there are 18 dots, or three full
characters, to each side of the line.

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ewyueywu
I remember when this was first announced a few years ago - great to see its
progress. It's amazing that visual display tech has advanced so far in 100
years that one can't see the pixels, yet haptic display tech is so primitive
that the best displays are only capable of dozens of pixels. It goes to show
that motivation and money are what drive tech innovation, not fundamental
physical constraints.

~~~
melloclello
I sometimes wonder what technology would look like if it were developed by an
alien culture with no sense of vision.

~~~
semi-extrinsic
I somehow believe that the evolutionary pressure towards sight is so large
(i.e. the benefit of sight is so great) that we're essentially guaranteed any
sentient biological extraterrestrial will have it.

~~~
ewyueywu
true, but consider other sighted animals but which have a different dominant
sense: dogs (smell), moles (touch), platypus (electric-fields)

even sight-dominant animals may have radically different vision to ours. Cats
for example are more sensitive to motion than to static resolution

How we obtain our data about the world is a huge influence over how we
conceive of it. I wonder how different programming would be were we to do it
entirely by touch

~~~
falsedan
All of your examples are related to food acquisition. Consider /imagine the
non-sighted analogues of them, and how 'successful' they are/would be e.g. a
worm the size of a mole[0] & how trivial it would be for predators to prey on
it.

[0]: not these ones tho
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_Gippsland_earthworm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_Gippsland_earthworm)

~~~
ewyueywu
yes i guess the evolution of our vision was driven in part by hunting (being
able to resolve animals at a distance) and gathering (being able to discern
colours of berries)

~~~
new_hackers
also the medium in which we primarily exist (i.e air). If we existed in water,
or in soil, then the collection and classification of light would not be as
important.

~~~
falsedan
I think the vast amount of seeing marine creatures is a massive
counterexample. Evolutionary biologists think that the ability to detect any
photons grants an advantage: in environments where there is light, eyes
evolve, even when the light is dim. It's only in completely lightless
environments that eyes no longer provide an advantage (i.e. abyssal plain or
caves).

~~~
new_hackers
Agreed, the sea creatures have evolved to capture even more light. I'm only
guessing, but I would think the pressure and temperature sensors on fish would
be more important than sight?

~~~
falsedan
You mean, sensors to detect at a distance? For temperature, most deep-sea
creatures have large amounts of insulation to survive the cold & thus would be
difficult to detect (especially since water is also an insulator). For
pressure, those exist and are called tendrils/antennae.

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bigblind
I'm visually impaired. I tried the apple watch a couple of months ago, but
concluded it wasn't for me because using VoiceOver imposes such a delay that
it's not noticably faster than taking my phone out of my pocket. This braille
watch might be much more practical.

I'm seeing a lot of healthy scepticism in the comment section. I'm visually
impaired, not blind, so I haven't checked this page with accessibility tools.
And, although I've heard about a lot of failed kickstarters, I'm not good ad
judging them. But if this is real, and gets built, I'd love to try one out.

~~~
dennisjung
Hi, this is Dennis Jung from Dot Incorporation At the current moment, we are
revamping our website [https://dotincorp.com/](https://dotincorp.com/) \- our
goal is to make all information available in both text and audio forms and
leave no one behind. We would like to apologize for any inconvenience.
Meanwhile, you can visit our Facebook page
[https://www.facebook.com/dotsmartbraillewatch](https://www.facebook.com/dotsmartbraillewatch)
to find out about our latest updates and news. Thank you.

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amelius
How are the "pixels" turned on and off, technically? Is it done by a small
magnetic coil? Or by electrostatic means? Or otherwise?

Does a non-switching pixel require a current?

~~~
hwillis
It works like this: [https://hackaday.io/project/12442-molbed-modular-low-
cost-br...](https://hackaday.io/project/12442-molbed-modular-low-cost-braille-
electronic-display)

It is a tiny magnet inside a solenoid. At each end of the solenoid there is a
steel part, which the magnets stick to when on or off. To switch state the
coil is energized. Hall effect (or other) sensors can tell where the magnet is
and what state the pin is in. It doesn't use any power when it's holding state
but switching can consume a relatively high amount of power.

The clicky pen mechanism is actually patented, and it also can't be made as
small as you'd like for this.

~~~
AstralStorm
Does it really? This kind of mechanism is not reliable for 10k switches
even... (Due to vibration damaging the pin.) And solenoids are nowhere near as
small.

~~~
hwillis
It may use nitinol wire, which can work with smaller latches. They can last
trillions of cycles. I really doubt it though, making something at that size
would be extremely expensive, unless they figured out a very simple way to
work it.

[https://g.redditmedia.com/rFj5xjIilFQKXM1N6sq8asAi5i4BQTfUgo...](https://g.redditmedia.com/rFj5xjIilFQKXM1N6sq8asAi5i4BQTfUgo6HULvj660.gif?w=320&s=202a544f1d384aae5aa5c3d55a24c32e)

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tschuy
I could potentially see technology like this being useful even for people
without vision issues. The ability to read information from a display without
needing to glance down at the watch would be great.

~~~
micheled
You should totally check Eone's watches then [https://www.eone-
time.com/](https://www.eone-time.com/). A friend has one, they look amazing as
well as allowing exactly that.

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anton_tarasenko
Any reason for the blind to use this over earbuds paired with Siri, Alexa, or
any other voice-based interface?

~~~
joelcollinsdc
The made the mistake of asking this to my gf who is a teacher for visually
impaired kids. Braille is reading, and listening to earbuds is not reading. We
teach our sighted kids to read even though they could just all have
audiobooks, just like we should teach children Braille even though they can
still listen.

Another good argument she made was it's about multiplexing. What if someone
wanted to learn the time while listening to an engaging conversation, they
wouldn't want to stop listening just to check the time.

~~~
gravypod
What kind of logic is "people need to do something more difficult because it's
easier for people who aren't the same as me"?

Also, who's to say that people shouldn't be encouraged to use audiobooks
rather then read text-based liturature? When listening to an audio book I can
do many other things like study for an exam or program. I can't read a book
via text and write software at the same time.

I don't think we should handicap people by making them feel like it's "better"
to do something that's harder for them for some reason. Blind or not.

> Another good argument she made was it's about multiplexing. What if someone
> wanted to learn the time while listening to an engaging conversation, they
> wouldn't want to stop listening just to check the time.

Most people don't wear watches and it's usualy considered rude to pull out
your phone mid-convorsation. I always wear a watch and so people just say "do
you have the time"?

If you can't ask Siri you can just ask whoever you're talking to. Also, if you
express you want to know the time and they say "I don't know" you can then
just ask Siri and tell them. It works out nicely.

Any other examples?

~~~
smhost
Is Braille actually harder to learn/use than normal writing systems?

> When listening to an audio book I can do many other things like study for an
> exam or program.

Why don't you just study for your exam and write code in audio?

~~~
gravypod
> Why don't you just study for your exam and write code in audio?

I see no reason why, given enough work, a sufficient audio-interfaced IDE
cannot be created. I think that is the way we should go. A real AI tied to a
speach processor and a polog-like system would be the best UX for programming
possible.

Think of Star Trek, "Computer, do X, Y, Z and then run that program".

I definetly don't think text is the best interface with a computer or any
system for that matter. That's why I'm saying what I'm saying.

And for now, we're talking about telling the time, not expressing a perfect
proof for infinitly complex ideas. I think Siri is good enough for that query
as it stands.

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H4CK3RM4N
I think this is the first real tactile display product I've seen go to market.
Have there been any other big ones?

~~~
Cthulhu_
Every braille display strip ever? I mean this isn't exactly big itself, as in,
it hasn't proven to be big yet. There was also a tactile clock, iirc involving
a pair of spheres on a dial instead of pointers.

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dfischer
I've loved the eone watch. Apparently it was also engineered for being usable
by the blind. Amazing design.

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ceejay
I think an important thing for a product like this to take off will be
integrating a good / open api.

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pjmlp
Finally a smartwatch that makes sense!

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anotheryou
Can't you spell words letter by letter if it's fast enough?

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canuckintime
As those like the moto360 watch straps? Or some other type of non-user
replaceable straps? It would be better if they weren't with standard lugs

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shadowfacts
The scroll jacking is really atrocious on my phone. It forces me to go
incredibly slowly. Scroll jacking of any kind shouldn't be a thing, but this
is worst than most other instances of it.

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unwind
That looked a bit like blogspam, or whatever the word it. It wasn't very
information-dense, anyway.

The manufacturer seems to be here:
[http://fingerson.strikingly.com/](http://fingerson.strikingly.com/). I guess
it's a smart watch since it pairs over BT with a cell phone, and can show
notifications from the phone. It can show the current time without a phone
connection, yay. No custom installable apps on the watch itself as far as I
could see, but perhaps something can be done through the phone, too.

Can somebody please explain how they count their Braille cells? From reading
Wikipedia, a "cell" should be 2x3 dots. The site says the watch has 4 cells,
but it clearly has more than 2x3*4 = 24 dots; I count 30. Also the middle cell
seems to be split by the vertical line? Very confusing.

~~~
rkalfane
It looks like the 3D renders display a bit too many dots.

When you look at the picture of the man holding a prototype, you have 4 cells
with no split.

~~~
bigblind
I deidn't count the dots, but you'd expect 6 dots in each braille cell, 2
vertical rows of 3;

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zv
Sorry, this content is not available in your country

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vegabook
too cool - I'd love one of these for those long meetings / dates /
presentations etc so I can just casually "feel" what time it is without being
noticed looking at my watch or phone. I'd have to learn at least a subset of
braille (numeric digits?) but it could actually be interesting to do that too.

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popobobo
Their team doesn't look too diverse to me. Not a good culture fit for silicon
valley.

~~~
ncocacola
It's a good thing they're based in South Korea then.

~~~
popobobo
So it is not made in AMERICA? I think they underestimate the patriotism of
blind people.

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mrgrowth
I read that as, "The First Braille Sandwich"

~~~
masterponomo
You could do that easily with a 3D printer using an edible medium on bread
with a sturdy crust layer. SnackChat?

~~~
riskable
Yeah but after the security geeks tear it apart there will be offshoots...
Sandwatch and Burnberger. Better to wait for the sesame seeds to settle before
biting off more than you can chew.

