
Tesla responds to "bricking" issue - sephlietz
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/plug-it
======
URSpider94
This is PR mastery.

Nowhere in the release does Tesla refute that owners have "bricked" their
batteries. Nowhere in the release do they say that the battery can not be
bricked by leaving it for a long period without a recharge. All they say is
that it would take a period of weeks for a Tesla roadster to reach 0% charge,
and that the Model S has battery disconnect technology that can extend this to
several months. They also point out that the car will provide increasingly
strenuous warnings to plug it in (which, no matter how loud they are, would be
hard to hear from across the country, if you've left it in an airport parking
lot).

If it were true that a Tesla battery pack couldn't be destroyed by letting it
fully discharge, or that it had never happened, then they would have mentioned
it in the release. In fact, they take the opposite tack, re-emphasizing near
the top of the document that users should always plug the car in when parked.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still very enamored by Teslas, and I don't think that
this is any different than the owner of a gas-powered car letting it run out
of oil and seizing the engine -- it's neglect. If you don't get it by now,
Tesla owners, you need to plug in your cars.

~~~
redthrowaway
It's really no different than early fuel-injected cars being damaged by
running out of gas. The solution? _Don't run out of fucking gas._ That didn't
stop fuel injection from becoming the dominant technology, and neither will
this halt the rise of EVs.

~~~
burgreblast
Sounds like you knew all along that the Tesla battery could be bricked by
running out of charge? That would make you one of a very small minority.

The original story got play because it was a surprising, unknown, and frankly,
sucks.

If all of my fuel-injected laptops had never been damaged when they ran out of
fuel, I would be pretty shocked and disappointed when it was a problem with
the Kugelfischer. Much like the Tesla owners this affected.

Tesla isn't a "cause" it's just a product. So whatever happens to Tesla one
way or the other has a smaller influence on "the rise of EVs" than you can
imagine. Mahalo.

~~~
redthrowaway
>Sounds like you knew all along that the Tesla battery could be bricked by
running out of charge? That would make you one of a very small minority.

Comprising all Tesla owners. It's in the Owner's Manual, and I would be very
surprised if new owners aren't informed of it when they purchase the car.

~~~
droithomme
It's good to know that you agree with the blogger who wrote the article, and
agree that Tesla is lying when they say his claims are unfounded rumors.

------
grellas
Deposition line of questioning suggested after reading this piece:

Q. Is it true that the battery has catastrophic failure when it drains to zero
and is left in that state for a sustained period?

A. The company has built in countless safeguards to ensure that the battery
never drains to zero.

Q. That is not what I asked. Please answer the question.

A. It is an unfounded rumor that many owners have incurred such a catastrophic
failure and only an irrational fear would permit anyone to believe that.

Q. I didn't ask about many owners, only whether it is possible to incur a
catastrophic failure as described. Please answer the question.

A. Our documentation clearly tells owners that it is vital to keep their car
plugged in and we give them ever-escalating warnings to ensure that no
rational person could ever let the car get close to that state.

Q. I didn't ask about the likelihood of this happening, only whether it can
happen. Please answer the question.

A. We value our customers more than you can imagine and it is slanderous to
suggest that we would subject them to risks that can be avoided.

Q. Again, not what I asked, please answer the question.

A. Every car has risks of catastrophic failure if it is badly misused.

Q. Does this mean the Tesla does too with its engine?

A. We will not dignify a mere rumor with an answer to that question.

Q. And is it true that it costs $40K to replace the battery?

A. I object to that as irrelevant.

Q. And that it is not covered under warranty?

A. Ditto - irrelevant.

Q. And constitutes an uninsurable risk?

A. We really are off track here. I will not answer.

Q. So you do not regard it as worthy of disclosure to your buyers that, should
their battery drain to zero for any sustained period, the only remedy is to
replace it at their own expense at a $40K cost.

A. That disclosure would not fit with our marketing plans. Plus we say
something of the sort at page 487 of our owner's manual.

Q.Well I guess this was all pretty pointless.

A. Of course, nothing wrong here. Ignore the man behind the curtain. What a
stupid thing to ask about anyway. The revolution is apace and you shouldn't
bother me with little details.

~~~
eduardordm
Answer to your first question: No. The battery is fine, the stupidity in
understanding that Li-ion batteries must never be fully discharged is the only
catastrophic failure here.

Why can't I down vote your post? :(

PS: Don't buy any RC model (or diesel engines!), they all suffer from the same
"catastrophic failure".

~~~
dhughes
What about diesel engines? I have a diesel, have run out of fuel (clogged
filer), have had air in the system - bled it out, was dangerously low on
radiator fluid but no ill effects.

All that over the span of ten years and I still drive it actually the engine
is the best part the rest of the truck is falling apart around the engine.

Add to those no spark plugs, no spark plug wires, no distributor, a more
durable engine design, higher efficiency compared to a gasoline engine.

------
blhack
Here's one of the problems that I have with this whole thing:

My iPod goes dead all the time, so does my phone, so does my laptop, my
camera, my remote, my everything.

I think that every single battery-powered device I've ever owned has, at some
point, gone "dead" (as in it won't power on).

 __NONE __of these things have ever been completely incapacitated because of
this. I've never had to replace my laptop because I let it go flat.

I'm sure some of the 5 owners who have had this happened knew that the car
would go dead, but I'm sure that _all_ of them figured that that just meant
that they would have to charge it.

Tesla: here is how to fix this, and I'm asking that you do this on behalf of
_all_ electronic vehicle manufacturers (to keep people from being scared off
the things by blogs like this).

Release a statement that follows the standard 3-step press release of oops:

\---

1) "Own it". -- We fucked up here. This was our bad. We were stupid to believe
that the general public would understand that letting the battery on their car
go dead would cost them $40,000. This was incredibly stupid of us, and is 100%
our fault. We take responsibility for this.

2) "How we're fixing it" -- The 5 people who have had this happen have all
been contacted by Tesla motors. We're shipping a tech and a battery to all of
them, and all of their cars will be back on the road by next week.

3) "Why this won't happen again" -- From now on, we're including a physical
battery disconnect. A device will attach to the battery terminals that is
normally off, and requires that the battery be at 5%[1] charge to close. If
the battery drops below this, it _physically_ disconnects the battery from the
rest of the system, and doesn't allow for any parasitic electronics to drain
it further.

[1]: 5% is a made up number.

\---

Of course this won't happen, but a PR-spectator can dream.

Tesla: you bungled this one. Badly. You're hurting the entire EV industry.
Suck it up and admit you were wrong.

~~~
Arjuna
I mentioned this yesterday [1], but I am repeating it here, because I believe
that it is a critical piece of the conversation.

The consequences of failing to maintain the battery are _clearly_ stated by
Tesla Motors in the owner's manual.

Is it the fault of Tesla Motors that an owner did not read, understand and
follow the maintenance procedures outlined in the owner's manual? Is it not
the buyer's responsibility to perform due-diligence in this regard?

From the Roadster 2/Roadster Sport owner's manual (italic emphasis is mine):

"Important! Caution: If the battery’s charge level falls to 0%, it must be
plugged in immediately. _Failure to do so can permanently damage the battery
and this damage is not covered by the New Vehicle Limited Warranty._ Also, if
you allow the battery to fall to a critically low level _it may not be
possible to charge the vehicle._ If you are unable to charge the vehicle,
contact Tesla Motors."

[...]

"However, situations may arise in which you must leave the vehicle unplugged
for an extended time (for example, at an airport when traveling for a couple
of weeks). If this is the case, _it is your responsibility to ensure that the
battery does not become fully depleted._ "

[...]

"If for some reason, you are unable to keep the vehicle plugged in when it is
not being used, _it is up to you to preserve battery life_ by paying attention
to the charge level and the temperature [...]"

[1] <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3625527>

~~~
carbocation
You can put whatever you'd like into the warning. The fact of the matter is
that this is a car. When a car runs out of gas, it's not forever bricked.
People will, due to a hundred years of experience, expect the same from a new
car that has a different power source.

They can fix this. They have the technology.

~~~
gnaffle
What kind of technology is going to keep a battery magically charged if left
alone? Self-discharge is a built-in phenomenon of these batteries. The fix
they have is that the car can "phone home", and that's what Tesla and other
car manufacturers are doing.

------
giberson
Am I the only one face palming from reading "Here is why the rumor is
unfounded" followed by the first two paragraphs confirming exactly what the
blog stated? That batteries must be kept charged, and that if they get too low
will contact Tesla HQ?

~~~
ricardobeat
The rumour is unfounded because you have to try really hard to get to that
state. You can leave your car in storage or at the airport for weeks as long
as it has enough charge to hold, and even if you get to 0% charge you still
have 30 days to plug it in before all is lost.

------
moomin
TL;DR; A single blogger is spreading a rumor about electric vehicles becoming
inoperable. We'd like to confirm the rumour.

Seriously, I find it breathtaking, for all the reasons people have already
given. It's a case study in saying "yes" while giving the impression of saying
"no".

------
aero142
Why is this thread so filled with hate? This all sounds very reasonable to me.
They clearly acknowledge that the battery must be maintained properly and they
seem to be doing to the right things to minimize the risk. They then show very
clearly that the total amount of maintenance is less than that of a gasoline
vehicle, w/ oil and scheduled maintenance. There are a bunch of things like
breaking your timing belt that will break a gasoline engine. This all sounds
very reasonable to me. Why is everyone freaking out?

~~~
snowwrestler
A surprising number of people, even within the technology field, don't like
change that disrupts their personal habits. Hence the constant low-intensity
warfare over the various Linux distros and interfaces.

In this case a lot of folks are getting emotionally involved because this
story serves as proof that electric cars can't be maintained with the exact
same habits that an ICE car is maintained. Habits are a personal things, and
can be difficult to change. A lot of people will fight to preserve them rather
than adapt them.

------
sr3d
This is the weakest "anti-rumor" corporate response ever. After all that
lengthy passive-aggressive "We're great, but you need to charge your battery",
there's not a single statement about what would happen if the battery runs
out, which is precisely what the original article is about.

Tesla, stop beating around the bush like a politician, grow up and answer the
million-dollar question like a man:

What will happen once the car's battery is completely depleted?

(life-line hint: it will get bricked)

------
mikeash
Here's something I'm still unclear on: how strongly were owners warned about
this beforehand?

If Tesla cars come with a bright red warning on the driver's side window
saying IF YOU DO NOT KEEP THIS CAR CHARGED THEN YOU RUN THE RISK OF REPAIRS
COSTING UP TO $40,000 then I'd say Tesla is completely in the right here.

If they didn't mention this anywhere and it's just something owners discover
because they use it in a way that Tesla didn't think they should, then Tesla
is completely in the wrong.

If they did something in between, then it's in between. I may have missed it,
but so far I haven't seen this explained.

~~~
morrow
These (apparent) e-mails between an owner with the dead battery issue and
Tesla seem to indicate that there _is_ a a 'built-in notification system' for
this, but it wasn't added for the first 500 cars :
<http://jalopnik.com/5887504/tesla-emails-gallery/gallery/1>

~~~
mikeash
A problem like this really needs advance warning, not just a notification when
the problem is about to develop, since the owner may not be in a position to
get the car plugged in if they don't know it could occur beforehand.

~~~
Groxx
Which is why there are warnings in the manuals. Which puts it on par with
changing the oil in a regular car, if less culturally-obvious. Reading a
manual for something you spent $100k on seems a reasonable prerequisite,
especially if you have any interest in keeping it running.

------
verelo
No technology or system is perfect, there is a certain level of "acceptable
use" that we always need to comply with. I don't think charging a Tesla is
that big of an issue, and if you're fortunate enough to own one, you're
probably also intelligent enough to plan ahead.

In Australia (where I'm originally from) LPG (Propane to everyone in the US &
Canada) conversions on Petrol (Gas?) cars is a common thing. Its the same
situation, LPG is not available everywhere, and while most LPG cars can run on
both fuels...you simply think ahead before you go on some unusual route. It
becomes part of your planning for a long trip and that's all there is to it.
If you run out of LPG, its a bad situation...you cant just go grab bottle of
LPG, its a compressed gas, you actually need to either run the car on normal
fuel (Petrol) or get it towed.

My bias opinion here is that someone probably mistreated their car, and Tesla
told them something like "We tried to help you before this happened, but you
ignored us...its in the terms you signed when you bought the car and now there
is nothing else we can do to help"

Completely reasonable.

------
JS_startup
What a terrible release. Is it still a rumor if the company who makes the
product just confirmed that it's true? What happens when the battery runs all
the way out? Why does it happen? What's being done to resolve it?

PR mastery indeed..

------
fr0sty
I wonder if as much digital ink would have been spilled on this whole
kerfluffle if the original article had not used the term 'bricked'.

Bricking, at least in my mind, is something that happens suddenly usually when
attempting something at least slightly risky. Jailbreaking iPhones, replacing
your laptop harddrive, desoldering components in an audio amplifier and other
'warranty voiding' all carry some 'bricking' risk.

The situation with Tesla is more akin to leaving your (very expensive) bike
out in the rain: Given enough time it will rust up and need to be extensively
repaired but I don't think you would say you 'bricked' it...

~~~
abruzzi
It need not be risky or warranty voiding. Bricking has been applied to
software updated pushed out by vendors in the past, so I don't think it
implies anything more than something that causes something to lose all
function and become inert, like a brik.

~~~
fr0sty
A vendor software push is risky even if well tested...

> "something that causes something to lose all function and become inert"

add "suddenly and without warning" and I'd agree with that definition.

------
jfasi
This is a good release, however there is a better way to present it.

By now, gasoline powered cars have been around for a hundred years. Everyone
knows they are complex machines with lots of movings parts, and that they
require regular maintenance to keep in working shape. What Tesla is putting
forward here is the fact that the same principle applies to their electric
cars: they need their own kind of TLC to be kept in good shape.

However, there is another point Tesla fails to get across. Over those hundred
or so years, not only has the need to care of a gas-powered car entered into
the public psyche, but also how that care must be carried out. Everyone knows
that cars need oil changes and exhaust checks and all that. It's obvious by
now.

However, that sort of awareness doesn't exist when it comes to electric cars.
Saying they need care is great, but Tesla is missing an opportunity to develop
the same sort of intuitive public awareness with regard to their vehicles.
It's not just 'these cars need care,' it's 'these cars need care, and its of a
kind you don't expect, that's OK because you haven't need raised on these
vehicles since you were young.'

This way, the message would move from being an ever-so-slightly condescending
implication that you forgot that electric cars need electricity, and refocuses
on the need to augment the way in which people think about maintaining their
vehicles.

------
abruzzi
This is a textbook example of a non-denial denial:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-denial_denial>

------
gwern
> The earliest Roadsters will take over two months to discharge if parked at a
> 50 percent charge without being plugged in.

What exactly are the conditions for this statement to be true? My laptop
battery has lost some of its capacity over the past 2 years - how much
capacity do Roadsters lose over time? If I had bought one of the first 100 or
whatever, what would that discharge figure be _now_?

------
droithomme
Wow. Great example of PR spin. It totally confirms the bricking claims by
refusing to outright deny them. Instead it just repeats that you are supposed
to recharge it and not let the batteries deplete, which is something everyone
already acknowledges is true and is not a point of contention.

There is also a jab at a "single blogger" bringing the issue up, as if he is
some rogue on a vendetta or looking for attention. But then not denying his
claims makes this look like an insidious corporate attack on a journalist who
actually brought to the public's attention a serious flaw with a product. Very
similar to how GM's attacks on Ralph Nader back in the 1970s started.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsafe_at_Any_Speed#Industry_re...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsafe_at_Any_Speed#Industry_response)

------
jrockway
I read this as, "yup, you'll brick your car if you don't keep it plugged in."

On the other hand, I manage to keep my cell phone charged at all times, so I
can imagine that I'd be able to keep my car charged at all times. But I ride a
bike, so this doesn't really affect me.

------
outworlder
Assuming Tesla PR is correct, then:

1- All modern battery packs, including laptops, have internal management
circuitry that, among other things (like controlling charge so that they will
not explode) not allow the damn thing to deplete. When 0% charge is reported
the battery still has plenty of juice left.

2- With the given parasitic drain, the battery will last for at least a month
left at 0% charge

3- If you leave you car at the airport, you kinda expect to be able to get
back, so you won't leave the car at 0% when you depart. And even at 0%, you
have a month to plug it in

So, barring a zombie apocalypse, what is the expected use-case that actual
owners would encounter, to be able to destroy the batteries? It is certainly
not normal usage.

------
jellicle
Tesla, what's the cost of bundling a solar trickle charger in with your
vehicle? Either build it into the roof (next generation, obviously) or just
buy one that sits on the dashboard and throw it in with purchase.

"Please to be using this when leaving vehicle at airport. Thank you much,
Tesla."

Maybe there's some reason this won't work, but... you need to work with your
customers' expectations. Some of them are going to leave the vehicle unplugged
for a while, and they're going to be pissed if the vehicle battery is
destroyed.

~~~
jws
30 watt drain. You will need 720 watt hours per day which will be around a
square meter of solar cells.

Won't work in the parking garage, snow, or Seattle. Just don't leave your
tesla at the airport of 12 weeks. That's expensive all by itself.

~~~
krallja
Do you need the full 30W to keep the battery alive, or is that for the whole
electrical system on standby?

~~~
jws
I suspect it is dominated by self discharge. By that is just guessing at the
load.

------
ssmoot
I can't remember ever saying this before, and it's not even really plausible
considering how relatively small HN is, but some of the comments here feel
like they're directly from the mouth of Tesla.

I mean seriously. Cost doesn't matter? Time doesn't matter? Equating going on
vacation without your car to never changing your oil?

Just because someone says it's neglect, or even has a contract that defines it
that way, doesn't mean it's reasonable or even anywhere near the realm of
common sense. That's just lawyer speak that is.

------
stitchy
The comments here seem to fall into two unrelated categories: "Tesla isn't
telling customers the whole story" and "What did people expect to happen when
they left their car unplugged for months?"

Both are valid points. Why are you arguing? The points don't seem mutually
exclusive to me. Tesla has a lot going for it. They make innovative cars, and
I would love to own one. That doesn't make the company's PR responses any less
defensive and cagey. The response for this particular issue is a big turn off
for me. I would definitely prefer that they didn't contradict themselves
within the first three paragraphs.

I get it. Owners of Tesla cars need to charge their cars or they will be out
$40,000. That makes sense to me. Batteries don't last forever. My Mother
however doesn't care how the car works. She just wants it to work. She'll do
the maintenance that you ask her to do, but she's not going to know why. So,
she won't know why she can't leave the car at the airport for a month.

That's why it's important for Tesla to say, "yes this is an important issue
that is part of maintaining your car." Not, "A single blogger is spreading a
rumor about electric vehicles becoming inoperable." If my Mother read that
last sentence, she might say to herself, "oh, I guess that blogger was just
lying," and move on without reading the whole article, now assuming that it's
not possible to "brick" her car.

I also lay some blame at Michael Degusta's feet. I don't think that it was
appropriate for him to title his article "'It’s A Brick' – Tesla Motors’
Devastating Design Problem." I don't see this as a design problem. It works.
The potential for bricking your car is just something you'll have to watch out
for, just like not changing your oil is something you need to watch out for.

I think that Tesla was just reacting against the accusation that they had a
design flaw. As long as they make sure that all of their customers know of the
issue, it's not a design flaw. At that point it's maintenance. That's where I
think that Tesla failed today. They skimped on their responsibility of
informing the customer of important facts, so that they could come out
smelling like roses.

P.S. Incidentally, if I were to take a trip to my mountain home in Italy for
half a year, roughly how much would I expect to pay in electricity to keep my
Tesla vehicle charged? Does it draw a constant amount of power for the entire
time that I'm away?

~~~
jrockway
If you can afford a $100,000 car, you are not going to leave it parked at the
airport for a month. Tesla does not make cars for people that need a utility
vehicle, they make toys for rich people. Some day, this technology will be
mass market and the batteries will be more forgiving. Today is not that day.

~~~
stitchy
I agree with you. But now that you mention it, it seems like utility vehicles
get used more often. Rich toys often stay in the garage with the other rich
toys.

------
miker64
If you don't do the basic, fundamental things to maintain your vehicle, it
will no longer work.

If you are, in fact, unable to grasp that, then you will pay the cost.

How is this even a thing?

~~~
burgreblast
Um, because maintaining a gas/diesel/lpg vehicle (or a laptop) doesn't include
keeping it continuously fueled up at the risk of $30K damage.

You don't keep your laptop or phone charged on penalty of battery replacement,
so why pretend that you're not surprised at the Tesla result?

~~~
revelation
If you completely discharge a battery, it will take damage.

Also, quite obviously, the batteries used in the Tesla are the same kind used
in your laptop or phone, just a vastly greater number of them.

So yes, maintaining a laptop means keeping it charged.

(How do people not know this? Battery 101)

~~~
ghaff
Raises hand.

I did know that it's not good for the life of a battery to continuously deep
discharge it. (Though I've seen so much different advice over the years about
various battery technologies that someone might easily think it was better for
batteries to run them down now and then, a belief that had at least some
relevance to NiCads.)

However, I confess to not knowing that running down, say, a laptop and then
letting it sit uncharged for a long period was a very bad thing.

------
phil
This sounds a lot like breaking a timing belt on an engine with an
interference design. (When that happens the cylinders plow into the valves and
there's a lot of carnage).

On my car that's a $6-7000 fix if it happens. I bet if there were only 2,500
of those engines in the world it _would_ be a $40k fix, but economies of scale
have made it cheaper.

------
solsenNet
quote "spreading a rumor"

turns out in this case the rumor is true...

well the first automobiles needed to be started with a crank on the front
grill. sometimes the crank would catch and whip around an break the user's
arm.

its a neat thing that even in this day and age, people aren't completely
shielded from being on the cutting edge.

the 2020 Teslas are going to be amazing.

------
vollmond
Even if it is in the owner's manual - and even if it is prominent in the
manual - how many of you have ever actually read the manual when you get a new
car? I know I have only ever looked when I actively needed something: the
meaning of a warning light, how to operate the disc changer, something like
that. It is entirely conceivable for someone to own a relatively new car for
years without needed to look in there.

edit: and yes, I realize it would probably make sense to check it out when
buying a type of car that is relatively new, but that doesn't mean even a
significant minority of new owners will.

------
jaggs
Two words: Nissan Leaf.

Quote - "Nissan spokeswoman Katherine Zachary tells Motoramic that the all-
electric Nissan Leaf "will never discharge completely, thanks to an advanced
battery management system designed to protect the battery from damage." Thanks
to a combination of different management and battery cells custom-designed for
the car, Nissan has sold 22,000 Leafs and never suffered a similar failure.
Tesla's acolytes may find no fault in the charges, but other automakers know
there's little margin in blaming customers for not asking the right
questions."

------
eldude
The comparison of a fully discharged battery to the negligence of running a
car with no or bad oil is disingenuous and likely manipulative. One is a
passive issue of forgetting or not knowing a car requires charging when _not
operating_, the other is an active negligence of operating a car that is unfit
to run. I can neglect a car in storage for decades and getting it started will
not require more than the cost of the car. At best it will require a tune-up
and a full tank of gas.

------
Torrents
I registered at Tesla motors website so I could comment, but it says to login
to comment, even when I'm logged in. When I click 'login' it says I'm already
logged in.

I would like to ask if it's true or not that any batteries have become
inoperable due to being drained completely. Also If that does occur, what is
the cost of replacement, and is it at all covered by warranty.

It doesn't seem like that answer is forthcoming...

~~~
maxerickson
It seems pretty clear to me that they do not plan on offering warranties
against batteries sitting unplugged for long periods of time.

------
redthrowaway
And so marks the conclusion of yet another Internet shitstorm. Sound and fury,
gnashing of teeth, forgotten in a week.

All this has happened before, etc.

------
bambax
Isn't the whole point of "electric cars" to save energy?

Here we learn that they need juice constantly to run "vital systems" and
therefore consume energy at all times, even when not running. The owner cannot
choose to let his car unplugged because then it'll break down completely and
need to be repaired at a cost of 40% of the original price.

This is not progress.

------
mef
Incidentally, does anyone know why the wheels of a 'bricked' car would be
locked up, preventing towing?

~~~
Mvandenbergh
Yes, because the systems for disengaging the wheels from the drive train won't
work without power.

~~~
tocomment
Is that a fail-safe or the opposite of a fail-safe? I can't decide...

~~~
teamonkey
Consider a battery failure while parked on a hill

~~~
abruzzi
Park usually does two things--it slips a fixed tooth (pawl) into a gear on the
output shaft of the transmission, effectively locking the driven wheels (i.e.
front wheels on a front wheel drive car.) It will also unload the gears of the
transmission the same as the neutral setting. This is why on some AT cars, the
idle speed will creep up a tiny bit after put in PARK or NEUTRAL.

------
wtvanhest
What happens if you leave a gasoline car for 6 months without driving it?

That is the comparison I would like to see.

~~~
jellicle
If you disconnect one of your car battery terminals, it will be perfectly fine
for six months. Reconnect the terminal and drive away. It's not necessary to
do anything else.

The main danger is things like squirrels moving into your engine block, if
it's outside.

~~~
wtvanhest
Not sure why you were downvoted. Seems reasonable to me. And the animal threat
is real.

------
zephjc
Devices are not pets or children. They should not die through owner inaction.

------
revelation
What is wrong with you people?

You are really trying to kill off cars because you got a horse carriage at
home. The horse can when coupled reproduce itself, all it takes is some food
and water to keep going, its unlikely to break down, you can be flexible by
changing from a one-seater to carrying raw material in the blink of an eye.

Obviously, the horse is vastly superior to its new "car" competitor. Only a
moron would invest in further developing the car, given that it was
irrefutably shown to be inferior.

\-- On a more serious note, I really can't believe this. This is supposed to
be a technologically informed crowd, but you are instead acting as if we've
got an infinite amount of oil "somewhere down there" and that it's
unacceptable to deviate from the three ton monster SUVs that roam the streets
in the USA.

~~~
mansolo
I feel you on this one, but building an industry on misinformation is not the
way.

Another thought: maybe we need to stop being so obsessed and utterly dependent
on cars in general. Live locally, support your community, become more self-
reliant, leverage personal technogy.

~~~
Sanddancer
From everything I've seen, Tesla's been pretty up front as far as what the
battery needs, and what sorts of behaviors to expect.

As to your other thought, some of us do not want to ghettoize ourselves. Some
of us have friends in areas that are, unfortunately, difficult to reach via
public transportation. Living locally would mean disconnecting from a great
number of people that I care about quite deeply.

------
pbreit
The original blogger and all the naysayers were completely insane to think
this was some sort of design oversight and that the Model S would not include
significant improvements.

------
mmuro
Even though this response doesn't address everything that was brought up by
the original post, I still find this whole thing fascinating.

------
aidenn0
I'm still a bit astonished that they didn't implement a deep-sleep in the
roadster, but it's good to see they will do it for the Model S.

------
mathattack
Seems like a little upselling going on in the defense. That is mastery.

------
functionform
tl;dr don't take your tesla camping, or it will 'discharge' _cough_ brick
_cough_

------
mellifluousmind
One key issue that Tesla PR accidentally omits is whether owners are still
responsible for 40K replacement if battery does indeed fail.

40K replacement basically tells user that go get a gas-powered car. If a fuel-
injected engine fails, would it still cost just as much to replace? How about
a BMW? or Mercedes? or Lexus?

~~~
Geee
Of course you have to pay if you are stupid. Same thing if you destroy your
gas-powered car on purpose using some other method. It is not a 'fail', which
implies a manufacturing error or similar.

~~~
shock-value
Except in this case you wouldn't be destroying the battery "on purpose"
obviously, but rather through neglect or ignorance. It's a fail in the sense
that this technology has been exposed to be clearly unready for wide-scale
adoption, and the company in question has barely even acknowledged the issue,
let alone outlined steps it is taking to fix it or improve the design.

~~~
tfb
You can neglect and ignore maintenance of gas-powered engines too. Stop
getting oil changes and never check/refill it and see what happens to your
engine.

It will eventually be "bricked".

Just like gas-powered vehicles need to be maintained, so do electric ones. EVs
actually happen to require less maintenance. Simpler too. I would say that the
EV equivalent of oil changes is to keep it charged above some minimum.

~~~
jaggs
Err...it will take a _very_ long time for a conventional gas engine to get
'bricked' as you put it. And the cost to repair will not be $40K. This line of
argument from the apologists it a little weak methinks.

------
cenuij
Is it true to say that other battery only electric cars don't have the same
potential, sorry, to become a brick? If so, this PR response is pure fluff.

~~~
wmf
Other EVs have the same warnings in their manuals.

------
TwoBit
tl;dr - A Tesla car can in fact be bricked.

The blogger should write a follow-up article: "Tesla admits that cars can be
bricked. They are just a little harder to brick than assumed."

------
xl-brain
So, I guess they are saying you can brick a Tesla roadster.

Just to add to the PR observations, I like how they have a few positive
comments, but it is actually impossible to make comments on the post.

