
On Minimalism - chriseidhof
http://chriseidhof.tumblr.com/post/9539831015/on-minimalism
======
Udo
Anecdotal (read: personal) experience suggests that rich people are more
likely to be minimalists. Case in point, my brother is extremely wealthy and
even though he likes nice things, his houses are always very sparsely
outfitted, his cars never have any personal stuff in them, everything is
extremely clean and besides his laptop, he doesn't carry around any personal
possessions.

Compared to that, I hardly scrape by in an absurdly small apartment, and until
recently it was stuffed to the brim. My car is full of things. I'm a slob. And
all the poor people I know are too. Recently, I have started to throw away or
auction off a huge part of my stuff and it feels really liberating (how many
computers does a person need, anyway).

I wonder if being poor triggers people to hoard and/or to prefer complicated
items. For example, I observed that rich people tend to have really simple
furniture that is reduced to its core function, whereas poor people tend to
have complicated-looking things and a lot of them. Poor households are
absolutely cluttered.

~~~
vacri
To some degree, to get ahead in business you must personally present as clean.
This would carry over somewhat into your personal life - it's hard to be
wearing thousand dollar suits to work while living in a rat's nest, I guess.

Personally, I like clutter. Random toys people give you, buildup of projects
and jobs and whatnot. It personalises a place. I understand the appeal of not
caring about items - I don't particularly care about most of my clutter - but
minimalism is so... sterile. Walk into a minimalist's house and there's
nothing really there of their personality, nothing particularly different from
any other minimalist's house. I don't have a problem with other people living
that way, but for me, it's just so sterile and sometimes even feels
unwelcoming.

EDIT: I wonder if part of your rich/poor thing is that the rich have the
opportunity to move around a lot for both business and pleasure and so can get
a variety of memories and backdrops, whereas the poor see the same thing day
in day out, and so personalisation of spaces (or making them more varied) is
more important to them?

~~~
Udo

      This would carry over somewhat into your personal life - 
      it's hard to be wearing thousand dollar suits to work while
      living in a rat's nest, I guess
    

Yeah, maybe, though the rich people I know are generally not suit-wearers.

I like your backdrop/decoration thing though, it's an interesting theory. But
I still believe that having a nice bank account makes people feel independent
and free, in the end causing them to see a lot of superfluous things as they
are: clutter.

~~~
chriseidhof
Marcus Aurelius is considered one of the most important Stoic philosophers,
yet he was a Roman Emperor, probably the mightiest and richest man on earth at
that time.

~~~
vondur
Yeah, but he did spend a good portion of his life on the Danube fighting
German tribes. Probably did not carry much with him.

------
stygianguest
While the idea of minimalism really appeals to me, its practice does not.
After moving at about once a year for the last 10 years, I have had many
rounds of culling needless stuff (although I could do another round).

But there are so many things I would not throw away because I need and use
them every day: books, cds, musical instruments, cooking gear, all kinds of
tools, wires, parts, etc. for tinkering. This adds up to what I own, and yes,
it is quite a lot (moving requires the biggest truck I can get with a normal
license). For the books and cds I could go to a library, for the tools to a
hackerspace, for my food to a restaurant... The instruments, well, that'd be
hard.

It seems to me that such a life would be more expensive and require more
organisation. In short, it would be far less enjoyable for me.

~~~
chriseidhof
Yes, there is definitely a tension between pleasure and minimalism. I miss my
guitar too. I miss cooking a little bit, but the restaurants in Berlin are
very good and low prices. However, after this I might consider a furnished
apartment, as long as I don't have to own the stuff myself.

The point I'm trying to make in my article is that minimalism makes me
happier, but I'm not sure whether this will always be true. Too minimalistic
and I will probably become less happy. Also, doing it for a long time might
also get old. We'll see, so far I like it.

~~~
danieldk
_Yes, there is definitely a tension between pleasure and minimalism._

However paradoxical, minimalism can be also an be attachment. As Buddhists
would say, take the middle road.

Taking cooking as an example: food touches on the outer world (think of
everything involved in a simple crop, from the farmer to the sun) and the
inner world (physically and mentally). Preparing food is very good for
exercising awareness and appreciating life, why would one sacrifice that?

Edit: sorry for accidentally downvoting you :(.

~~~
mkr-hn
I balanced your accidental downvote with an intentional upvote. :)

------
pseudonym
As a personal counterpoint (ish) to this, I've found that minimalism is fine,
to a point, but _change_ is the huge thing that makes me feel better about
myself. Even something as simple as a different clothing style or different
haircut can improve your self-confidence and outlook on life, if you let it.

------
bignoggins
I'm not sure if this qualifies as minimalist, but 5 months ago I moved out of
my apartment, put everything in storage, packed a week worth of clothes, a
macbook air, ipad, ipod and set off around the world.

I used to have quite a bit of "stuff": home theater, nice car, video games,
etc. But I don't find I miss it very much at all. If anything, the only thing
I really miss is my dog. Right now I'm working on my iPad app at an amazing
cafe in Budapest. There really is no other place I'd rather be.

~~~
jh3
If you don't mine me asking, how old are you and how are you currently making
money? I'm assuming you saved some for a bit before you left wherever you used
to live. I'd actually be interested in anything you have to say.

~~~
bignoggins
28 and married. I'm own a mobile app business so I can work from anywhere in
the world. I didn't need to save up any money as my earnings are enough to
cover all of my expenses.

------
maneesh
Potentially offtopic but relevant for Minimalist fans who live in Berlin: we
have a weekly meetup for people doing Four Hour Work Week related businesses,
or doing any online business whatsoever. We've had Tim Ferriss and tons of
other entrepreneurs come visit us. If you're around, check us out on Mondays
at 5pm at Betahaus, Moritzplatz U8

<http://www.facebook.com/groups/146524318752855/>

------
pinaceae
random single guy finds it great to be able to have no obligations, film at
11.

emphasis on single. no kids. no obligations, no responsibility.

oh how zen you are.

~~~
lkozma
Wife and kid don't necessarily have to change everything, as long as you find
someone who thinks similarly to you.

~~~
r00fus
> Wife and kid don't necessarily have to change everything, as long as you
> find someone who thinks similarly to you.

Sorry, this is quite a naive statement. My wife before pregnancy and
childbirth had a different outlook on life... people's personalities change,
and having kids often makes this change (large cause of divorces and break-
ups).

Also, your kid's personality you can't choose. Some kids are very colicky and
stubborn and do much better with stable environment. Others are free spirits.
If you have a special-needs or disabled child, forget about it. No choice
there.

My wife's friend roams around with her husband (and their kid) - he does
short-term contracts around the world. She had repeated complained about the
churn and stress to my wife.

~~~
lkozma
I agree with you and I have a wife and a son. I didn't say it doesn't change
anything, but that it doesn't change everything. What I meant is that there
will be things you cannot do anymore and there will be things for which you
use the changed circumstances as an excuse not to do anymore. Extreme
minimalism in particular gets harder but buying a house/car/TV/expensive
furniture/100s of other things, just because that is what society excepts from
a settled person is silly.

------
revorad
When I read posts like these, I can't help but wonder if minimalistic people
go around feeling smug and superior all the time. If you think and talk a lot
about how great your minimalistic life is, then you're probably suffering from
what some call spiritual materialism.

~~~
dschobel
reminiscent of: [http://www.theonion.com/articles/area-man-constantly-
mention...](http://www.theonion.com/articles/area-man-constantly-mentioning-
he-doesnt-own-a-tel,429/)

~~~
chriseidhof
Haha, nice :D. I watch TV shows though.

BTW, I don't even own a television!

------
MrFoof
I've gone towards minimalism -- or at least as far as I feel is reasonable --
for the purpose of eliminating parts of my life that were pure maintenance,
such as cleaning and commuting.

In 2008 I got rid of what I thought were "most of my possessions". The big
thing was every piece of furniture I owned except for a desk, a small lamp and
am Eames molded chair. I did, however, have a walk-in closet full of clothes
and boxes. I also kept the computer, and the TV.

By having no furniture -- not even a mattress -- for months, it really changed
my perspective on what I valued about furniture. Sleeping and sitting on the
floor tends to do that to you. It really made me think about what I wanted in
a bed, or in a couch, or whether I even wanted certain things at all. It also
forced me to focus on the space. By most measures I lived in a very large
apartment, but I started to notice how awful the floor plan was, how much room
was wasted by an excessively large kitchen, oversized bathroom and tons of
useless hallway... it was "big", but not in ways that were useful considering
how you actually live in the space.

So 8 months later I downsized. Over that period of time I got rid of more
things. Useless baubles and kitsch. Clothes I never wore. Books I never needed
again. I had purchased a nice bed, nightstands and two lamps, but hadn't
acquired anything else, so I brought far fewer things into a considerably
smaller space.

However, that smaller space was MUCH nicer than the larger one, for a bit less
money, and in a ridiculously good location (subway across the street, in the
city instead of 10 miles out). My commute went from an hour a day to being
able to stumble out of bed at the last minute and walk across the street.
Cleaning was just getting easier and easier. With no junk around, you can just
power steam, vacuum, or wipe down every surface very quickly. I also seemed to
have to clean less often, in addition to reducing it to maybe 30 minutes a
week. Insects? What are those? I think I've seen only a fruit fly and a spider
in nearly 3 years. Despite losing 250sqft, I think I only lost 20sqft of
usable living space.

But I wasn't done. If I spent an hour going through everything, I'd still
finish with a 15-gallon garbage bag full of things to throw out. The former
walk-in closet of boxes? It's down to just one box (as of this weekend). Two
of the (three) reach-in closets are now empty, so I'm turning one into my
office (which reclaims a lot of floor space). I could probably downsize again
and still have tons of room, as even with a few more pieces of furniture
(partial living room) the place is feeling a bit gargantuan, and I'm worried I
might just buy furniture to eliminate the seemingly empty space.

~~~
hammock
What about wall decorations? I haven't seen anyone talk about those, and you
know I hate to see an empty wall. What has been your take on that?

This has been a fascinating thread and I've really been influenced.

~~~
MrFoof
I don't really strive for the absolute reduction to large, basic forms.
Without having built my space to control the lighting exactly as I intend, I
think that'd be impossible. Mostly I'm just for removing things that aren't
being useful to eliminate the costs of having to deal with said things.

However, do not underestimate proper use of color. My bedroom is backed by a
Benjamin Moore Jack O' Lantern [1][2] that gives the desired effect (and
similar in the bathroom with Shy Cherry). My living area needs something, and
I'm considering finding photos (Monaco Grand Prix, Targa Florio) to enlarge
and use as panoramic wallpaper.

\-----

One thing I have noticed is the opportunity cost of having useless things. Not
just the space to store it, but not having the space to store useful things,
and the lost opportunities by not having those useful things.

The most common example are having clothes you don't wear. Since they're
taking up space in your closet, you end up running out of the clothes you _do_
wear, and not having enough of the preferred styles/articles you like to wear.
So by keeping the articles of clothing around, you end up creating this
ridiculous artificial problem for yourself which results in more frequent
laundry.

I've noticed similar with pots and pans. The 3-quart pot is dirty and I want
to make some pasta? I can't with a 2-quart or 1-quart, so I won't be having a
shrimp scampi that night. If I simply got rid of the useless pots I almost
never use, and bought more of the ones I did, I'd be eating what I want (and
probably better overall).

Additionally if the pots are decent looking, and are well organized, it's free
decor. I once went to someone's home and their bath towels were in an open
reach-in closet, but meticulously folded and stacked. I was impressed, because
someone had made some plain, boring, inexpensive bath towels part of their
decorum rather effectively.

[1] <http://i.imgur.com/yyi62.jpg> [2] <http://i.imgur.com/D1DyH.jpg>

------
0x12
Try moving to another continent a couple of times, it does wonders for
breaking your addictions to 'stuff'.

Even so, I find that after moving the 'stuff' creeps back in again and after a
couple of years there is just too much of it.

It's just different stuff... especially tools, it's hard to get by without
them.

I couldn't care less about clothes or furniture but tools matter.

------
sfvisser
Although it certainly varies from person to person, very actively making your
life 'simpler' seems like a stressful thing to do.

Changing my eating habits to reduce my sugar intake will definitely be more
complicated than not doing so. The same holds for an information diet.

I understand why you're doing this and it'll most probably have a positive
effect, but I don't see how this is necessarily simpler.

~~~
ams6110
I changed my diet to avoid wheat and sugar (something like paleolithic). I
just did it cold turkey and didn't find it that hard. Stop eating bread and
other baked goods, candy, soda and you're 90% there. I lost close to 50 pounds
in less than a year. I have not eliminated sugar in the sense that I still eat
fruit, but mostly berries and I think eliminating nearly all the refined sugar
is what's important.

My diet is now mostly meat, eggs, fish, and salad with some nuts and fruit.
There's really nothing complicated about it.

------
getp
Very interesting article, I can see some of our discussions in there. I think
it's indeed fair to say most people could use less stuff in their lives
(minimalism). Furthermore, it's honorable to strive for a simpler life in this
age of the Internet and globalization. However, I also agree with the comments
that the audience for this article is probably individualistic, unbound,
single young men.

Both minimalism and stoicism are about constraints. Therefore, I do not agree
with replacing books with a Kindle. A Kindle - like most Internet-connected
mobile devices - represents abundance: an abundance of information. Hence I
find this point a bit at odds with an information diet. Having physical books
puts a constraint on what you can carry around with you (especially important
when traveling). Also, which is an argument not heard enough, reading from
books - especially hardcovers - has aesthetic value, and it's easier to
remember the contents of the book.

------
radicalbyte
I had a similar experience when I moved from the UK to the Netherlands in
2006. You gather a lot of hubris over the years and it feels nice to be able
to dispatch a big load of it.

Also it's an interesting point you make about dutchies and their agenda's. No
wonder people think I'm crazy. I've never had an agenda (or used calendars
either for that matter).

------
g-garron
One question: Is there a way to continue with that way of life once you have
kids? And start to need some more stuff?

(Another point this may be off topic)

Something about your 30-day-no-candy experiment.

If you continue trying to about complex sugars, you'll see that you will not
miss carbs at all.

For a different reason (I'm a body builder -hobby-) I tried 3 months with no
carbs at all, and I really felt good!

~~~
dagw
Kids, at least for the first couple of years, don't really require that much
stuff, certainly much less than most people buy. Beyond clothes, bottles and
consumables (like diapers), all you really need is a carriage and/or carrying
device (I highly recommend getting both) to transport the kid, some sort of
crib like thing for the kid to sleep in and some simple toys.

Ask me again in a couple of years time and I'll let you know if you need more
stuff for older kids.

~~~
g-garron
I've a nine years old girl, and a three years old boy. They own some 60% of
the stuff in the house. I would like to get rid of 80% of that 60% :)

~~~
ams6110
And its not just a matter of what you get them. Birthdays, Christmas, random
gifts from grandparents and other relatives and friends, and before you know
it you can't walk across their bedroom for all the crap that's accumulated.

Good plan is to say "ok now that you have this new thing we need to get rid of
one of your old things" but good luck getting them to accept that happily.

~~~
saraid216
One suggestion I'd make (that I haven't seen implemented, so it's only an
idea) is a regular cull. Every few months or a year, depending on your
preference / tolerance, just sit them down and ask them to choose what they're
willing to throw away or give away. You could explain it in terms of your
philosophy, or frame it as giving their lovely things to other kids who would
also like to play with wonderful toys, or so on.

Kids can be a lot more reasonable than people give them credit for.

------
mkr-hn
The best thing I've done recently was move aggregators like Techmeme and
Sphinn out of Reader and into a bookmark folder. I later realized most of the
stuff in the aggregators was not only useless, but even skimming took so much
time and energy away from the post-a-day/week blogs where I drew most of my
inspiration from.

I also did this with all the news sites I read. Most of it was filler anyway.
I end up not reading much news, but somehow I still hear about the important
stuff.

------
gnijholt
Reminds me of <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLoge6QzcGY>

------
Hyena
How much software do you have, including regularly visited websites and other
ephemeral software?

------
schiptsov
'Less is more' is a thousand years old general maxim. And of course, there is
nothing from Buddhism or stoicism in cutting some costs and undoing some bad
habits. One also should watch the Fight Club movie. ^_^

------
motyar
Minimalism is not about "less", its about "just enough"

------
twidlit
Good for him but i find this kind of free-wheeling and 'zen' lifestyle very
selfish at its core. Go minimalism to what end? Why don't you do something
that contributes to tree of human knowledge or something makes humanity more
efficient?

~~~
chriseidhof
I try to add value to the world as well. I don't see how those things are
exclusive?

And yes, it is very selfish. I try to optimize for my own happiness. Which
includes helping others, being nice, adding value, doing things that make life
less fun in the short term but better in the long term.

