
EBay is about to increase its seller fees to 10% - anigbrowl
http://pages.ebay.com/sellerinformation/news/springupdate2013/springfeesimplification.html#feesataglance
======
anigbrowl
If you were looking to dirupt eBay's business model, you couldn't pick a
better time.

While considering a price adjustment on a high-value item I'm selling, I went
to their fee calculator to explore some other price points. I was mystified to
see not only the fee I expected of ~$55, but a 'New Fee' of $123. Thinking I'd
made a mistake, I explored further, and noticed that as of April 16, casual
sellers who don't have an eBay 'store' will be charged 10% of their final sale
value in fees. Store owners will keep the existing fee schedule, but it will
cost them a monthly fee beginning at $16/mo. Add in the 3% Paypal fee and
they're taking a very large cut. For many categories of goods, this represents
a doubling of current fees.

I only discovered this by accident; I listed the item yesterday and there
wasn't any warning about an impending fee increase. They haven't sent any
notifications by email or to my eBay mailbox either; seems this is being
rolled out quietly.

Now I'm lowering my price in search of a quicker sale rather than risk paying
an extra $70.

EDIT: I've just realized that this fee increase begins right after Tax Day in
the US - when many people list and purchase items because it's time to pay
taxes or receive a tax refund. I've always defended moderate eBay fees because
they provide relatively smooth access to a big marketplace, but not any more -
this is pretty sleazy.

~~~
Jsarokin
Interesting to see this move by eBay - we've found that high fees for casual
sellers is a huge pain point. By focusing their fee structure towards power-
sellers they also happen to be alienating a large group of casual sellers.

We're trying to solve this problem (among others) with our product SellSimple.
Free app, free postings, and 5% if it sells.

Check it out, would love to know what you think: <http://sellsimple.com>

Disclosure: co-founder of SellSimple

~~~
icelancer
I looked at it; very interesting.

But why does someone have to sign-in to buy? That is a major turn-off. I can't
use something that people need to register an account for to buy. Just take a
CC and shipping info and pass it to me.

~~~
jbrowning
Seems to be a fraud deterrent. I once had an eBay listing that was "purchased"
by a Nigerian scammer. Buyers need to have a reputation system as well in a
viable eBay replacement.

~~~
Jsarokin
Yup - I think from a technical aspect we could totally have a user purchase
before creating an account / signing in, however this limits us when it comes
to dealing with fraud as well as brings up problems with the escrow system.

Since all payments enter escrow, without an account, the buyer can't release
the payment to the seller.

------
e40
The elephant in the room is this: ebay is all but impossible to use for big
ticket items. I tried to sell a camera (>$1000) and after two months of agony
and several failed auctions, I pulled out of ebay and immediately sold it on
craigslist.

Why? Fraud. The first time, I didn't set the option to only sell to
established users. I got bids from people with minutes-old accounts that I
knew were fraudsters waiting for the end of the auction. Sure enough, they
tried to pull a scam and I contacted ebay. After weeks they ended up locking
that account. I relisted and __the same buyer bid __, even though I really
cranked up the safety controls that an ebay customer support rep told me to
use. The winning bidder? Account created 5 minutes before. I called ebay, said
the email I got from the winner was a carbon copy of the first, fraudulent
bidder's email.... it still took weeks while I waited for the auction to be
voided. The total time I lost was well over a month.

On Craigslist, I definitely got a bunch of scammers, but they had no power
over me. I just ignored their emails and waited for someone serious, which
didn't take but a few days and we finished the deal at a local bank. We were
both happy with the transaction.

I will NEVER use ebay to sell again.

~~~
illuminate
The not-caring about shill bidders to the point of hiding their names is also
terrible for buyers.

------
ChrisNorstrom
YES!!!! The new price changes are actually going to save me money. Plus
they're still cheaper than AMAZON.

FYI: I sell on both Amazon and eBay. On ebay I pay for "Buy it Now" listings
($0.50 insertion) and 11% final value fee. So for me the cost is going to drop
by 1% and .50 cents.

eBay is doing this to compete and catch up to Amazon. Auctions are a fad on
their way out, and "buy it now" is where it's all at. Store style.

Amazon fees are MUCH worse than ebay + paypal fees combined, btw. Plus on
Amazon you can't have calculated shipping so you have to buffer your shipping.
I had to lie about my calendar weighing 4lbs just so I can force Amazon to
calculate shipping more fairly. So sometimes you lose some money and sometimes
you win. While on eBay calculated shipping charges buyers based on dimensions,
weight, and destination so you charge your buyer the exact shipping cost down
to the penny.

The problem with the OLD ebay rates is that they discouraged people from
posting "Buy It Now" items. There's a barrier to entry. If you wanted to sell,
lets say, 10 products on ebay with a "buy it now" price you had to pay
0.50/listing (not per item or sale) and they would be on there for a month
/or/ until that item's quantity reached Zero and sold out. Now, you can put up
to 50 items on ebay for free.

Ebay's old prices favored Auctions, ebay's new prices favor store style
listings. It's now cheaper to start a store on ebay.

~~~
anigbrowl
I would love to know what has an 11% FVF, because I can't find it in their fee
calculator. I agree that the new fees work out slightly better if you don't
have a store and if you are selling items under $90. On the other hand, eBay
lets you charge precise amounts on shipping but it takes the same commission
that it does on the FVF. So if shipping an item costs $20 you'll end up paying
$22 - $20 to the shipper and $2 to eBay.

I actually prefer Buy It Now to auctions, but I don't agree that they're a fad
on their way out. Perhaps that's because I tend to trade high value rather
than commodity items. I don't sell on Amazon and have no opinion about their
fee structure; looking at at my own sales history it seems like eBay was about
the same or very slightly more up to now, but Amazon will be significantly
cheaper going forward, at least for anything over about $100.

EDIT: for my items, the fees are higher than eBay. YMMV.
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=1...](http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=1161240)

~~~
ChrisNorstrom
<http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/fees.html>

It in the Fixed price listings—basic fees, under "All other categories". It's
11%.

~~~
anigbrowl
OK. I didn't think to consider the special case of items under $50 earlier.

------
tempestn
Here's a great comparison of the old and new fee structures:
[http://ebaystrategies.blogs.com/ebay_strategies/2013/03/part...](http://ebaystrategies.blogs.com/ebay_strategies/2013/03/part-
iiii-ebay-announces-spring-2013-changes-big-changes-coming-to-fees.html)

While it does probably amount to an increase overall, there are certainly
plenty of situations where the fees will be lower. And without doubt, they are
now far simpler than before, which is important. Being able to quickly
determine what it will cost to sell an item on eBay may well make casual
sellers more likely to do so, even if they end up paying slightly more on
average than with the complex rules.

~~~
anigbrowl
It's OK if you have a store, but you are paying a monthly fee for the
privilege and FVFs are close to what they are now. As an occasional seller who
does maybe 5-10 moderately high value trades a year, it's a terrible deal -
simplicity is not worth hundreds a year in additional fees, or an equally
complicated 'store' that I have no wish to rent.

~~~
tempestn
Agree with you there. Presumably eBay is looking for more volume of the
smaller stuff, which would fit with the theme of strengthening competition
with Amazon.

For the larger stuff, they don't have as strong a competitor (outside local
options like craigslist), so they probably figure they can afford to boost
their margins, and bundling it in with a 'simplification' and cuts elsewhere
is a convenient time to do it.

~~~
homosaur
Does eBay actually think they have any juice to compete with Amazon when
Amazon offers warehousing and tons of other vendor services? Sounds more like
the last gasps of AOL when they were trying to deliver pretend Internet.

------
ck2
Actually the cost to sell on ebay will be closer to 14% since paypal is
practically mandatory and they take 3.3%

I wonder what they are going to do when all the bigger ticket items start
disappearing from listings, except for those with $250 a year stores of
course.

~~~
jrockway
As a casual eBay seller, I don't really care about the fees. I mostly want to
get rid of stuff and make more money than I would if I threw it in the trash.
1%, 14%, 99%... it's all good.

------
thenextcorner
Headline is disturbingly inaccurate

Don't you know that this is a simplification of the fees for casual sellers,
where before, there were multiple tranches for listing an item, and if it sold
successfully, you also paid a final value fee.

The new fees represent a simpler and better to understand system, where the
first 50 items per month for casual sellers are free to list, and easy to
understand final value fee.

This is in fact a decline in % of what you would pay!

~~~
anigbrowl
That's absolutely not true. It's simpler but the final value fee is quite a
bit higher. Yesterday I listed an item for $1200, which would have a total fee
of about $56. Four weeks from now that would rise to $123. I assure you that I
checked my facts and figures carefully before choosing to post here.

------
WatchDog
They obviously don't see much value in the casual seller. Buyers have a better
eBay experience when buying from an experienced seller, better descriptions,
faster shipping and communication and less disputes. eBay owns a lot of other
auction site properties[1]. They probably want to differentiate their brands,
have eBay focus on power sellers selling new products and have their other
brands focus on the casual sellers selling used products.

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_acquisitions_by_eBay>

------
pravda
I don't think there could be a slimier company then Ebay. I wish Taobao would
come to the US and crush Ebay like a Zhong Nan Hai cigarette butt.

"Ebay may be a shark in the ocean, but I am a crocodile in the Yangtze River.
If we fight in the ocean, we lose — but if we fight in the river, we win."
--Jack Ma.

------
buro9
Thank you eBay!

Seriously, classifieds and auctions of niche items is precisely where I'm
headed and the more that eBay taint their product in the eyes of sellers and
buyers, the better.

------
zengr
Wait, what? The title is completely misleading. It's not an absulute increase
from 9% to 10%. The fee earlier for all the sellers was 9%, now for ebay store
owners (which mind you is a lot) get rates like 4%, 6% etc based on what items
they are selling.

So, ebay is actually giving great price to sellers who sell at scale (now they
can open an ebay store, which is definitely a good deal!). They are just
trying to promote the adoption of eBay Stores which helps their business and
sellers! What's wrong with that?

When Mr. SellSimple reaches the scale at which eBay does their business, we
will see how "good" they play and we start critizing them when they actually
try to make money (4% cut won't help you in scaling the business).

For casual sellers (the guy who sells his iphone once in 2yrs): They will need
to pay 1% extra, which is frankly not much. I sold my iphone4 after 2yrs for
$240 + $6 shipping on eBay. I don't mind paying 1% extra.

~~~
anigbrowl
_The fee earlier for all the sellers was 9%_

This is not true. It was pretty much the same as the store owner structure
with a range of fees for different categories. Don't you think that I checked
my facts before posting?

You can verify this for yourself using the link below; for example, on a
musical instrument selling for $1000 you save $0.50 in insertion fees but your
final value goes from $63 to $100. For cameras and consumer electronics,
including phones, the increase is greater, from $51.50 to $100. I trade
several pieces of quality pro audio gear a year; these changes would cost me
hundreds $ in either final value fees or monthly store fees.

[http://pages.ebay.com/sellerinformation/news/Feecalculator.h...](http://pages.ebay.com/sellerinformation/news/Feecalculator.html#)

~~~
zengr
I am refering to this table here: <http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/fees.html>

<http://i.imgur.com/arqYfh6.png>

~~~
anigbrowl
OK, but keep scrolling on that page and you'll see it's a lot more complex,
with different fee schedules for different item categories in the table
immediately following if you want to offer a Buy It Now option.

------
lgeek
I'm just saying, it's been 10% (with a £75 cap)[0] for ebay.co.uk for as long
as I can remember. It's still widely used.

The news to me is that other countries used to get lower fees. I wonder why.

[0] <http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/sell/fees.html>

------
Diamons
I guess this is our chance? (<http://theboxngo.com>)

------
Osiris
eBay used to be the place where you could put all your old junk and get some
nice cash for it but lately it seems to be entirely focused on resellers
(stores) rather than people selling junk from their basement.

Now it's all $1.00 items with $16.00 shipping fees.

I've been using Craigslist to buy/sell. I would prefer a place that was
targeted specifically at casual sellers.

------
shoply
Open a shop with us on Shoply.com. Quick, simple, easy. Benefit from our
marketplace and existing traffic. We're a startup and exist to democratise
commerce and help sellers showcase and sell their products.

No fees whatsoever for all HN affiliated sellers. hit us up at
support@shoply.com and we will upgrade your account for free forever.

~~~
nodata
Was going to signup, and then I saw Facebook login and Twitter login, so left.

Edit: then I went back to double check and saw the little "sign up with email"
link. Hurrah!

Edit2: it would be nice to view things near me. How do I search by geographic
location?

------
Kequc
Sure ebay has always charged huge fees for absolutely nothing other than
having a recognised domain name. Their software is terrible they've just been
around forever. They don't actually do anything, their terrible software keeps
churning out money for them because they were in the space first.

This entity encompasses Paypal too, another very terrible service that simply
won't ever go away.

Allow my distain for other people to show through. People will continue to use
ebay and paypal, as they have been for far far too long regardless of any fee
increase. It is the same reason people still use Facebook. Because the
synapses in their brain get configured one time, set and forget. Use facebook
forever.

Use ebay forever, use paypal non stop. Buy EA products. Keep paying your cable
tv bills. Oppose change when it is ever actually finally suggested and put
fourth by congress.

God this world is stupid.

~~~
mehwoot
Yeah, or, people use eBay and Facebook because that is what everyone else uses
and those sorts of websites are useless unless there are lots of other people
using them.

~~~
Kequc
That's exactly what I said idiot.

------
dreen
I was successfully deterred off eBay when I tried to sell a hot item (recently
released top range smartphone), other people selling same items just register
bogus accounts and sabotage your auction. Getting insertion fees back is not
always guaranteed, I spent almost £40 on them. Fuck eBay.

~~~
homosaur
I couldn't give negative feedback to a nonpayer fake buyer because I sold the
item 2nd chance. That will be my last trip ever to eBay to sell anything.

------
marban
<http://www.flipso.com> is a solution for classifieds within private groups.
Zero fees.

Disclosure: Founder, together with Idealab

------
tocomment
I've found selling on Amazon to be a good alternative for most mainstream,
easily shippable items. You don't have to fool with writing your catchy
description and worry about auction timing, reserve prices, etc. And I'd guess
the fees are lower?

Do you guys agree? Are there other good alternatives?

------
dcc1
I was planning all this week to make a classified site for bitcoin sales and
exchanges

with 0 fees, its up to buyers and sellers to deal between themselves, making
money on related advertising instead and maybe seller verification

what do people think of that idea?

~~~
Kequc
I don't think people are willing to trade bitcoin for anything other than
currencies right now, since the value of it is so unstable. By the time the
item you bought arrives you may realise that you hugely over or underpaid for
it. I just don't think people would go for it yet.

Also, no chargebacks on bitcoin. So, there is going to be a huge amount of
scams. You need to at the very least set up an intermediary between all
parties. This will effectively double shipping cost and delivery time on all
sales.

------
salman89
I'm wondering if eBay is making an attempt to remove low-margin products off
of their screen estate and make a play in higher margin listings.

~~~
illuminate
eBay has been moving away from individual sellers and trying to court larger
scale "shops" for several years now. It's pretty terrible for anyone who isn't
doing it fulltime.

------
JCCollector
For collectibles at least ShelfLife.net provides way more functionality, a
modern interface, a growing community and half the fees.

------
shakeel_mohamed
Well, they just continue to make their services less appealing to the average
user. What else is new?

------
cm2012
Amazon takes 20 percent. It's not a big deal.

~~~
anigbrowl
Their fees vary from 6-15% plus a few extras:
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=1...](http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=1161240)

