
Snowden decries Russian surveillance bill as dangerous, urges Putin not to sign - j1vms
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/25/edward-snowden-decries-russian-surveillance-bill-d/
======
Pica_soO
There is a man, standing for his ideals, even if it would cost him the last
save harbor he had.

Now lets belittle that, so we can stop feeling small. And maybe, if all sides,
put equally amounts of scrap on the scale, so it evens out, we might be able
to lean back- and call the equilibrium "good".

~~~
BWStearns
No one is belittling his advocacy for his ideals even in Russia. I explicitly
said the opposite. Him standing for his ideals, even and especially towards
his hosts, does not however mean that we have to pretend that his host
government shares those ideals.

~~~
icebraining
Who is asking you to pretend? Clearly not Snowden - he's the one pointing out
they don't!

------
hartator
I think it's so weird to have so much negativity in HN comments towards
Snowden. This guy should be our nerd hero. He was and he is risking his life,
freedom and assets for solely calling out the US agencies on illegal
activities.

~~~
capote
This isn't too much negativity (2 or 3 top-level comments that aren't even
purely negative, but just questioning his heroism) and they were downvoted
into the ground.

Rest assured, HN is clearly pro-Snowden and doesn't question it.

I'm not impressed by Snowden because I've seen worse than NSA surveillance
(communist Romania, my grandfather was beaten to death in jail for having an
anti-government journal) and I don't think the US can fall down such a
slippery slope that we need to worry about it at the cost of security and
massive irony. The formula that makes oppressive countries oppressive through
surveillance just doesn't exist here. Not even close. Even by modern
standards, we're not even in the same league as Russia and China in terms of
oppression via surveillance. We should probably stop it at some point but it's
not at the top of my priority list right now, and I'm not worried we're going
to fall off some metaphorical cliff anytime soon.

Anyway, to see Snowden in such a positive light requires thinking that
stopping NSA surveillance is a top priority that should be done at any cost.

------
golergka
He was front and center in russian media when he spoke about US — but without
even checking, I can guarantee you that this will not appear on a single TV
channel and will be downplayed in any media that decides to run the story.

~~~
banach
[https://www.rt.com/news/348404-snowden-russia-terror-
law/](https://www.rt.com/news/348404-snowden-russia-terror-law/)

~~~
kafkaesq
RT is for external consumption; let's see what the mainstream media outlets
have to say.

------
BWStearns
I'm shocked! Shocked! To see oppressive surveillance expansion in Russia!

Good on Snowden for calling Putin out, but I don't think it'll mean anything.
It is reassuring to see a reminder that his warm welcome in Moscow was just a
diplomatic на хуй/fuck-you to the US. Reading some comments about Snowden made
me think I had unwittingly Rip Van Winkled my way into some weird future where
Russia was a bastion of individual liberty and respect for human rights.

------
zerr
As if signing or not signing something in Russia mattered...

~~~
kafkaesq
It does, quite a lot.

To not understand this is not understand the philosophy and ideology of the
system by which Putin (and the heads of other modern hyper-autocratic states)
operate.

~~~
zerr
Well, my country is affected by Putin/Russia actions an every day basis and I
know that no matter what agreement they sign - they doesn't give a shit. It is
something western elite can't understand.

~~~
kafkaesq
Of course Russia routinely violates peace agreements with its neighbors. That
doesn't mean these agreements don't have a significance in another, more
psychological sense. In particular, that significance is:

"See? We got you to think you can feel safe in exchange for swallowing your
pride and making major concessions to us. Then we attacked you again anyway.
Now you're _really_ our bitch."

 _It is something western elite can 't understand._

Dividing the world between east and west, or thinking "westerners think in
such-and-such way, they'll never understand our situation" \-- is exactly the
mind trap that Putin and the secessionists in eastern Ukraine would love to
have everyone fall in.

~~~
zerr
> "westerners think in such-and-such way, they'll never understand our
> situation" \-- is exactly the mind trap that Putin and the secessionists in
> eastern Ukraine would love to have everyone fall in.

Well, the future aside, I'm talking about it post-factum. So yes, so far the
ineffectiveness of the west plays hand in hand with Putin.

~~~
kafkaesq
_So yes, so far the ineffectiveness of the west plays hand in hand with
Putin._

On that we definitely agree.

------
mc32
Oh, Mr. Snowden.

Now you learn the nature of the bear.

Snowden, by revealing the surveillance on domestic inhabitants of the US did a
service to his country, exposing overreach. However, turning over unrelated
state secrets, to me was unnecessary and deplorable.

On the other hand, now he's learning Realpolitik and he's now a forgotten
thorn. Moscow might be shopping him around, get him out of their craw. Who
knows. But certainly meddling with internal politics of the regime will not
procure favors, but from the decimated (not only as a metaphor) opposition.

Maybe he's itching to get out, or he's gone mad. This can't be a viable
political move on his part.

~~~
gruez
>However, turning over unrelated state secrets, to me was unnecessary and
deplorable.

Source?

~~~
BWStearns
He did exfiltrate more than the specific programs he had issue with and
trusted Greenwald et al to differentiate between public interest or not, which
I've heard as a pragmatism issue (filtering in situ exceeding risk tolerance).
I have yet to see any evidence that he has turned any data over to Russia
beyond what has been published for all. I'm sure Russia would _prefer_ he did,
but that doesn't mean he did (or for that matter, that he didn't).

Just pissing off the USG is sufficiently explanatory for his being allowed to
stay in Moscow, so I generally weakly hold the belief that he has not made
extraordinary disclosures to Russia regarding things not published for public
consumption.

------
capote
"an unworkable, unjustifiable violation of rights" in Russia? Shocking.

But seriously, will anyone relevant hear him? This type of thing is common in
Russia and has been for a while. Snowden ran to hide in the mother of all
government surveillance after blowing the whistle on government surveillance.

I'm not belittling Snowden; I'm belittling the amount of attention and respect
he gets relative to the action and help he provides. He just sort of says
things… that are unimpressive… from hiding… in Russia.

~~~
bbcbasic
He was bound for Cuba via a safe route. What would you have done in his
situation in Hong Kong, if preventing irony is your number 1 priority.

~~~
sawthat
Cuba is also not very free in this regard.

~~~
dalke
bbcbasic was incomplete. He was bound for Ecuador, which had offered asylum.
His planned to go through Moscow then Havana, but Cuba was not his final
destination.

He was unable to carry out his plan because the US canceled his passport when
he was in Moscow.

