
Prenda Law and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Appellate Argument - batguano
http://popehat.com/2015/05/04/prenda-law-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-appellate-argument/
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Sacho
I found the video source fascinating -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObZDipKRH0c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObZDipKRH0c)

Specifically, the judges' exasperation at Voelker's request (at first) that
they remand the case for criminal proceedings.

Also Judge Nguyen and Judge Tallman repeatedly attempted to steer Voelker into
a course where he might have some merit, but he kept outrageously denying that
the case had any legitimacy at all. I don't think he was winning them over
much with those arguments.

I've really enjoyed watching this channel and I don't think it gets enough
views - this is part of the court system's inner workings, laid bare.

~~~
aroch
I particularly enjoy the history lesson 30mins in:
[https://youtu.be/ObZDipKRH0c?t=2000](https://youtu.be/ObZDipKRH0c?t=2000)

~~~
dctoedt
The "history lesson" was delivered by Judge Pregerson, who is 91 years old [1]
and presided at the argument. Popehat's article notes that Judge Pregerson
began the day by announcing that it was the 70th anniversary of the day that
he, then a young Marine officer, was severely wounded in the Battle of
Okinawa. If he had said he'd been wounded at the Battle of _Gettysburg_ , it
would have been only a little more surprising. It's both amazing and wonderful
that a WWII veteran is still actively serving on the bench.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Pregerson](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Pregerson)

~~~
mcguire
And not being the image of an ancient, out-of-touch jurist:

" _Pregerson: And you 're a great lawyer._

" _Voelker: I appreciate you saying that, Your Honor._

" _Pregerson: I mean, it says so, right there on your web site._ "

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spacemanmatt
As a fan of wry judicial humor, this excerpt is a MUST-SHARE:

Pregerson: And you're a great lawyer.

Voelker: I appreciate you saying that, Your Honor.

Pregerson: I mean, it says so, right there on your web site.

~~~
nothrabannosir
And right after that:

 _Pregerson: I wonder how many super lawyers there are in this country_

 _Voelker: There are a lot of 'em._

 _Pregerson: And a lot of 'em is BS._

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Natsu
I believe this quote from the article sums it up:

You want us to send this back for criminal contempt proceedings?" asked Judge
Tallman, with the air of a parent asking a toddler whether he really wants to
hurl himself down the stairs. "Do you understand that the maximum penalty for
contempt is life imprisonment?"

~~~
cbd1984
This Prenda stuff is funnier than the "SCO vs Linux, IBM, and Basic
Rationality" nonsense from a while back. It's a Three Stooges bit slowed down
to litigation speed: Slapstick with all of the slow deliberation and
unswerving inevitability of a glacier bearing down on the supposedly-
professional protagonists.

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rqebmm
Can someone fill me in? It looks like there's a ton of backstory to this on
popehat, but no good summary.

~~~
DanBC
People who downloaded certain pornographic movies over bit torrent were
getting legal letters from the copyrights owners asking for a payment or
threatening to take the downloader to court.

But the company that "owned" the IP was a shell company set up by the lawyers
sending the letters. They created the company and then represented that shell
company. It's not certain whether the IP could be transfered in the way Pre da
said it had been. In some situations Prenda law just lied about it and forged
signatures.

One person stood up to the legal threats and it all started going downhill
from then on. Multiple judges across the US have expressed disappointment with
Prenda and surprise at the shennanigans.

Wikipedia has a rather jumbled timeline.
[http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenda_Law](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenda_Law)

~~~
moioci
Additionally, there's good evidence that principals of Prenda Law were the
ones that uploaded the movies in question to bittorrent in the first place.
These movies were never released through more conventional channels.

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chris_wot
Why the hell is this case still going? Put these guys in jail and take away
all their money already!

~~~
anseljh
The gears of the judiciary grind slowly, but grind they do. They're grinding
these Prenda guys down to their component atoms. That can take a while.

~~~
chris_wot
And in the meantime, it slows up the system for everyone else. The grinding
can go both ways you know.

~~~
untothebreach
the system is "slow" by design. The ability to appeal means that a potentially
wrongly-accused person has a second chance for justice.

I'm not saying it's not frustrating; I am definitely frustrated with it at
times as well. But this part of the system, at least, is attempting to
maximize "justice" (at the very least, to counteract the parts of the system
that do _not_ attempt it)

~~~
anseljh
This is why there are turtles at the base of the columns at the Supreme Court.

[https://www.flickr.com/photos/morgonmae/2437913438](https://www.flickr.com/photos/morgonmae/2437913438)

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mcguire
At some point, I'd like a book-length examination of everything that's going
on in this case. Preferably by Ken White.

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ericd
This is absolutely hilarious, really worth a read.

