
The Case for Star Trek: Deep Space 9 (2016) - yurisagalov
https://medium.com/maxistentialism-blog/star-trek-deep-space-nine-in-82-5-hours-10acde591fd2
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VLM
The standard complaint about DS9 is its merely a ripoff of Babylon 5. I have
not been able to stomach watching B5; if I ever have a couple hundred hours of
spare time I'll attempt it, until then I'll have to trust other's opinion.
Something not often mentioned is the sheer expense of these series; hundreds
of hours of limited spare time have to be invested to experience it all. I
watched all of DS9 when it was new and then decades later just a couple years
ago; it was pleasant but compared to the alternatives I'm not sure it was a
wise use of my time. I tried B5 but after a dozen or so hours invested I had
barely scratched the surface yet was bored. These series are just painfully
expensive. For a non-sci fi comparison try "The Sopranos" where if you're not
addicted its very hard to get addicted and the time investment is insane like
hundreds of hours required.

Garak is the most interesting character in all of Trek. The linked story was
very human focused, but if you get past the species-ism then Garak is clearly
the most interesting character in all of Trek. He certainly has the most
unique and interesting lines of dialogue.

There are strange human sociology messages in DS9 that are kinda unrealistic.
In DS9 land, individuals are extremely newness-seeking and would never
interact with someone of their own kind if there's any possibility of
interacting with a stranger, and the stranger the better; this political
requirement has no relationship with reality of course, and as such the series
suffers under a pallor of weirdness. Friendship and family and culture feel at
best bolted on, or at worst are outright ridiculous.

There is some relationship between DS9 and Ian Banks Culture-verse, echos of
one in the other. Both are kind of a window into a future that does not
contain social media and the problems resulting from social media, which is
kinda weird, like experiencing a science fiction novel from just before the
broadcast era that naturally does not explore the numerous effects of
broadcasting. Off the top of my head I can't think of any hard sci fi that is
set substantially in the future yet contains aspects of social media from a
decade ago, although someone here probably has some good suggestions.

~~~
specialist
Garak's rootbeer scene with Quark remains my personal favorite.

~~~
VLM
I would correct the linked article to add "our man bashir" S4E9 to be watched
at the end of the series, its basically an hour of in-jokes about Garak's
secret life.

Garak's blood type was "snarky" and that character might be a bit too much for
some viewers. Its unusual on TV to have extreme levels of snark that doesn't
divert into mere whinyness or fart jokes. I guess that was acceptable at the
time of writing because Garak is a space alien.

"Tragedy is not the word I'd use. Farce would be more appropriate." in the
context of the theatrical version of the assassination of Julius Caesar.

Or the time Garak made fun of aesops fables for being too violent (same
episode as last)

"Treason, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder."

WRT the linked article comment about Miles and his incredible tearing pants
gag thru the series "Unlucky for you, my sewing kit went down with the ship."
was seemingly inevitable...

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purephase
This is a great post. As a long time TNG fan (and fan of The Greatest
Generation podcast), I never grokked DS9. I tried many times, but the first
season episodes are just so bad that I can never make it though.

An episode guide like this is helpful as well as the behind-the-scenes on the
show in general.

Thanks for sharing.

~~~
squarefoot
Never judge a show by the first season, or worse the first few episodes. Cast
need time to get accustomed to the part, to create alchemy etc. Also,
"unusual" shows like DS9 (IMO best Trek ever) or even Babylon5 (IMO best non-
Trek ever) etc. need some adjustment from the viewer. I recall hating
Farscape, but decided to keep watching it anyway and in the end I loved it so
much that I cried after the last episode. Now I'm watching again Stargate
Atlantis (IMO best SG ever) which started strong from the very first episode,
but nonetheless grew anyway with time. I wished ST Voyager could get better as
well... that show had so much potential:(

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specialist
Great post. Fun learning some of the back story.

I love Deep Space Nine. All of it. As in: Best show ever made.

I agree that DS9, along with Babylon 5, pioneered the long form TV story arc.
Every single character goes thru the heroes journey. Convincingly. I love it.

Benjamin Sisko is my favorite captain. I'd follow that guy into a black hole.

Quark makes the show. I don't know how Armin Shimerman pulled that off. Some
of the best acting ever.

My favorite episodes remain the Ensign Kim stuff from Voyager. But overall,
DS9 was just the best.

~~~
rabboRubble
> favorite episodes remain the Ensign Kim stuff from Voyager

Wait wat? Which episodes?

~~~
specialist
Well. The two episodes I continue to think about feature Kim, but aren't
necessarily about him. Maybe Kim is just my favorite character.

#1 Voyager gets stuck in a time thing, splits into two like Siamese Twins, Kim
dies in one universe, surviving Kim gets sent across rift. That messes my head
up.

#2 A mimic version of Voyager starts to disintegrate. They figure out they're
not the real Voyager. Their last act is mimic Kim trying to send a message
out, before they disappear, so the universe knows they existed. That one
really messes my head up.

Please don't make me find the specific episodes. I am weak and am likely to
binge watch. But I have chores to do. :)

~~~
rabboRubble
I’m a huge Trekkie and I know exactly which episodes those are.

My brain kept getting stuck on the episode where he starts to transform into
an alien of the male sex. Only to be at risk of sexual desiccation. I didn’t
put that episode on a GOAT list however :-)

~~~
specialist
Ya, Favorite Son, that one's brutal. Good one.

I'd love to hear your other faves.

My least/most favorite episode is Tuvix. Dilemma! I just can't take it. And
the casting, portrayal of Tuvix is just so spot on.

Enterprise's Coginator is a close second.

Dammit, now I've started rereading episode guides.

Thanks for playing catch. This is fun.

~~~
rabboRubble
The ethical issues with Tuvix were actually pretty interesting.

I tend to like story arcs more than specific episodes.

The idea of being far from home with high fallutin’ ethical codes - how do
those codes fair with out a support system nearby? (Janeway)

The idea of being transformed physically and mentally by a crime - is self
identity fully recoverable? (Seven)

Are computer algorithms sentient - what lines must be crossed for an AI to
become recognizably humanlike? (the Doctor)

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fatjokes
Sadly I can't imagine a show like DS9 which made you think about moral
ambiguity being made today, especially in the US. The "good guys" (i.e., the
Bajorans) were terrorists (and religious ones at that). In some episodes, Kira
openly discussed the fact that as part of the resistance, they had to accept
killing civilians and other Bajoran as collateral damage.

~~~
icebraining
I don't get it, isn't moral ambiguity very popular nowadays? Dexter, Breaking
Bad, The Dark Knight...

~~~
yen223
For better or worse, it's really hard to find shows where one side is
_clearly_ in the right and the other is _clearly_ wrong.

~~~
nicky0
You could say this is shows finally reflecting real life more accurately.

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colanderman
> “O’Brien Must Suffer” episodes

Eh, these were among my less-liked episodes. None of them advanced the plot,
they mostly made no sense relating to O'Brien's character (like, why did
Starfleet choose him, a chief _engineer_ , to run an organized crime sting
operation), and the sum of these was O'Brien gaining this weird parallel
backstory of him as some woebegone magnet for unluck. They were all clearly
contrived; at least from reading this article I now know _why_.

(To be fair, some were really good – like when Keiko (O'Brien's wife) was
possessed by a Pa Wraith. Others were just like, what the heck, O'Brien's in
jail _again_?)

> Season one’s nadir, “Move Along Home.”

Funny thing is, this is one of the more "traditionally" Trek episodes. Meet a
weird species, have some misunderstanding during first contact, everyone
almost dies, but j/k it's all OK in the end and we forget anything ever
happened in the next episode.

> Season 2 establishes one of Star Trek’s greatest characters, Elim Garak.

Glad he got a call out! Was disappointed he was missing from the cast drawing,
given that he plays an increasingly prominent role in the later seasons.

> this would be a great time to abandon my guide and just watch the whole
> thing.

Uhh… but make sure to skip _Profit and Lace_. It's objectively awful (and I
love the Ferengi episodes), and I refuse to consider it canon. Unfortunately
it advances the Ferengi subplot; just imagine a story that fits the plot
points and you'll be better off than watching it.

> Optional episodes: Take Me Out To The Holosuite

I highly recommend watching this. It has nothing to do with the plot
whatsoever, but it's fun to watch and does a lot of good (if silly) character
building. You can tell the cast enjoyed it too.

~~~
cholantesh
The one where he has memories of being in prison implanted was fantastic, and
I really enjoyed the one where he infiltrates the Orion Syndicate, though I
don't know if they explained why an engineer was chosen for an intelligence
mission...

~~~
colanderman
You know, thinking some more, I _liked_ the episodes _individually_ (including
the ones you mentioned). But they just always felt to me like they were made
for another show or another character. So the article's explanation that
O'Brien, as a "likable" character, was specifically chosen to suffer these
misfortunes clears things up a bit.

Not to mention they usually didn't tie into the main plot at all. Like –
O'Brien has 10 years of prison psychologically weighing on his mind now! For
the rest of his life! That should be a character-defining change. But it's
never brought up again _ever_.

Same thing with the "parallel universe" episodes. As set-piece
action/adventure episodes, I _loved_ them; the Intendant and the Regent are
among my favorite (if over-the-top) characters. But the set-ups never made
sense and they never advanced the main plot, so I always started and finished
each episode a little disappointed.

I think that's why the Keiko/Pa-Wraith episode stood out to me as much better
than the others – it actually ties into and advances the main plot. Sure,
O'Brien is again randomly the poor sap who takes the fall, but it's not forced
and it actually advances the plot.

~~~
parrellel
O'Brien is already massively psychologically traumatized (re: Next Gen) so the
ten years of prison and other horrors weren't enough to really change his
overall mental state?

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InclinedPlane
I contend that DS9 remains some of the best television ever made (and yes,
I've seen, and love, The Wire). It has plenty of dumb and boring moments, but
when it hits the mark it hits it so squarely and soundly that it makes a mark
on the viewer for life. It takes the ball that Star Trek serieses typically
play with: issues of complexity and moral difficulty that our current society
is struggling with, and does more than just play around with it, DS9 knocks it
out of the park. DS9 knows what it's about and isn't afraid to put a very fine
point on it.

Also, there's this:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmdrhfA0-Fw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmdrhfA0-Fw)

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krylon
For better or worse, Star Trek TNG and DS9 have played an important role in my
development. I would like to think that is was a benefit.

The major message of Star Trek in general and DS9 in particular is that
despite of - no! because of! - our petty differences, we can all live together
harmoniously. That harmony may require to people to avoid contact, but that is
a - relatively - rare exception.

A minor message, but an important one, I think, is that violence and force are
rarely, if ever, the best way to solve a problem. With a little bit - or a lot
- of cleverness you can find a solution that will be satisfactory to all the
parties involved. Even if you have all the right cards, simply relying on
strength is not a good foundation for a long-term arrangement. Diplomacy and
Compromise is.

It is a lesson - Star Trek or not - that I think could help many young people
these days, Star Trek or not.

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lostmsu
I respectfully disagree, that DS9 was a step up from TNG. It all got nailed in
the Gene's quote about what you will and will not see in 24th century.

Star Trek for me is a sneak peak into a different future (maybe not 300 years,
but 1000s). And DS9 is, basically, today, wrapped into a Sci-Fi suit.

Name one episode of DS9, where you'd see a problem and its solution, and be
able to say "rare living human would do this". For TNG: the entire Borg thing,
and that episode with Data trying to prove a tool became sentient - is
something you can't find in Trump's twitter.

That is basically the same reason for the rants about Discovery: they can't
make it past TNG's timeline.

