
Windows 8 Sales Disappoint in Shaky PC Market - ssclafani
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/24/technology/tepid-sales-of-microsofts-windows-8-point-to-shaky-market.html?pagewanted=all
======
jpxxx
I think folks are too quick to point to the iPad (& misc. tablets) as the
cause of Win8's apparent downfall. PC vendors bungled this one on their own.

It's a shitty economy and Microsoft & Friends are offering tired form factors,
severe usability regressions, bad word of mouth, a bifurcation of Windows into
two conceptually incompatible product lines, a meaningless brand, useless
marketing, and poor developer incentives to migrate to the App Store model.

Then consider how 'Microsoft Surface' is muddying every message with mixed
reviews, poor availability, atrocious marketing, OEM alienation, and
incoherent product segmentation.

Windows 8 was a flop on its own terms, and Microsoft doesn't have the luxury
of working in a vacuum anymore.

~~~
mgkimsal
Do you mean "Surface" the touch table, or "Surface Windows RT", or "Surface
Pro"?

~~~
jpxxx
Whichever one comes with the touch cover... er, I mean the type cover. I mean
the colorful one that is a keyboard but isn't a keyboard but I can type on it
fast but just not as fast as a real keyboard but it's a real keyboard which
makes this a laptop but it's not. It comes included, right?

------
smegel
I would have already upgraded to Win8 if it had a real desktop with a real
start menu for my dual 27-inchers instead of a friggin touch interface
designed for a tablet. Seriously, i don't know what they were smoking when
they came up with that one. I still get moderately excited by new Windows
stuff, after all the PC is not dead yet and i still enjoy building up a dream
rig from scratch, even though i probably spend more time on my various Android
devices.

~~~
chimeracoder
> I would have already upgraded to Win8 if it had a real desktop with a real
> start menu for my dual 27-inchers instead of a friggin touch interface
> designed for a tablet.

Walking into Best Buy today, I noticed that almost all the computers had
touchscreens. Even the few that also had keyboards in front of them lacked
mice.

They're clearly betting on the hypothesis that computers in 2/5/10 years won't
have mice, those having been replaced altogether by all-in-one monitors.

In other words, I don't think the intent is to get Windows 8 installed on
existing hardware. I think the intent is to get Windows 8[1] to dominate (and
perhaps even drive) new sales.

[1] Or, more likely, the successor to Windows 8 - Microsoft customers have
always had a pattern of 'skip one, upgrade one', and even without the
redesign, Windows 8 falls on one of the 'off' cycles as it is.

~~~
smegel
Are you saying there were desktop PCs without keyboards? How does that even
work?

~~~
chimeracoder
You'd be surprised how little most non-geeks use the keyboard for much of what
they do. Heck, even geeks use tablets for a lot of daily work.

In any case, I think this was just for display purposes. The touchscreen is
intended more to replace the mouse than to replace the keyboard - at least for
now.

------
3amOpsGuy
I've been evaluating Win8 on behalf of an old client I still sometimes help
out.

It's nowhere near as bad as the press has been making out. It's certainly
different but I can point out a larger volume of improvements than the measly
3 obvious regressions.

~~~
windsurfer
Compare Windows 8 to OS X, Ubuntu, and Windows 7. Where would you say it
ranks?

~~~
xradionut
In order of my preference:

Windows 7 Ubuntu 12.04 OS X Windows 8

Windows 7 earns my bread, it works, and most of the time works well for
clients and friends. Ubuntu is my goto "Unix/Linux" for OSS development,
friends and resolving Windows issues.* OS X, use it part-time at work and
friends, couldn't justify the cost of the hardware and some other quibbles.
Windows 8 is a UI failure for the power user and admin.

~~~
3amOpsGuy
>> failure for the ... and admin

Coupled with server 2012, it's actually a huge leap forward for the admin.

But I agree that for power users (who are one of the rarer user types in your
typical office environment and notoriously hard to accomodate) it is not an
improvement at this time.

------
at-fates-hands
The most telling sentence of the whole article:

"The trickle of shopping bags leaving the store with merchandise was nothing
like the steady stream at a bustling Apple store upstairs."

Well, DUH. Apple is deeply rooted in several younger generations. MS is trying
to crack this same market and get people to switch to their newly created
walled garden. Kind of tough to do when you're fighting uphill against an
existing, entrenched market.

Not surprisingly, the sales have been slow.

~~~
dangrossman
It's not even just that. Apple Stores have the unique draw of being the only
retail outlet you can buy Apple's full selection of products. Given the
popularity of those products, it's no wonder they have lots of foot traffic.

Microsoft Store has no such unique draw to get people in the door, or to get
them to buy anything once they're there. It's a showcase of products you can
buy in other stores you've known much longer, and hundreds of websites. Even
the unpopular Surface RT is no longer a MS store exclusive with Best Buy
carrying it along with the full range of accessories.

~~~
danso
I don't think that's the main draw for most people, though...most people care
about iPads, iPhones, and iPods, which you can get at most major retailers
now. Perhaps the service stations at the Apple Stores make it more appealing
to go there, but exclusivity doesn't seem to be a main reason to go.

I think why Apple has traffic and Microsoft doesn't is because Apple has
thoroughly owned the entertainment and luxury image. Microsoft dominated the
office, but I think the side effect of that domination is that when you go
shopping for PCs, I think it's hard to escape the mentality of "these boxes
are similar to those I do my spreadsheets on, 40 hours a week, in that dreary
cubicle".

Shopping at Apple store feels like a luxury escape: I go frequently even for
accessories that are cheaper on Amazon. Shopping at a Microsoft store will
unfortunately have some of the same appeal as shopping for ink cartridges at
Staples.

~~~
jpxxx
You are correct to describe Apple retail as a shopping "escape".

There are interesting window displays, inviting and modern interiors,
generally unobnoxious staff, and screechingly fast unlocked and unfiltered wi-
fi. That's enough to be the best thing in any mall for most people, and enough
to thoroughly trash any competing American electronics experience.

That you can trial, buy, return, swap, service, and get help with anything in
the Apple universe is almost besides the point.

~~~
gav
I dread going to an Apple store. I live within walking distance of 3 and avoid
them all.

They are busy full of people trying to get service at the Genius bar (which is
pretty poor experience a lot of the time), the demo units are taken by people
just killing time, they have a lack of products in stock, and the accessories
are generally overpriced.

The last couple of Apple devices I bought elsewhere: Amazon for the new
MacBook Air as they had it in stock, and Best Buy for an iPod because it was
cheaper.

~~~
jpxxx
I agree, the crowds can be punishing and that's certainly an alienating
experience for many. But the stores remain at maximum capacity, they're the #1
retail draw anywhere they exist, and you're still sending Apple money. :)

------
elliatab
I think a turning point will be a combination of great Windows 8 apps and nice
hardware.

Concerning the hardware I am surprised to see very attractive stuffs here in
Japan. The Fujitsu Arrows tab here is an example:
<http://www.fmworld.net/arrows/tab_wifi/qh/>

It is featuring an Atom CPU so it's running the full Windows 8 (not the RT
version) so it means you can really use whatever Windows software you've been
using before on this machine.

I believe the idea of having a single device replacing the desktop and the
tablet is still attractive to many users. It will take some time for PC-makers
to propose compelling offers but 2013 may be that time

------
zmmmmm
I really wonder about this:

> Only 15 percent of Acer’s current Windows 8 products in North America have
> touch screens

Microsoft made an OS that tries to shove a touch based interface down user's
throats. They've gone all in and really committed 100% to it, which is
admirable in it's own way: they know a large section of their users will hate
this, but they also know their long term survival depends on getting a touch
paradigm into their products, so this release is "taking one for the team",
and it's not too surprising that sales are poor. But given all of this, why oh
why, are ANY products shipping without touch interfaces? This part I don't
understand and, I think, points to a major failure on Microsoft's part.

~~~
lessnonymous
When I bought my new laptop, the store was 95% Window 8. And ZERO had a touch
screen. I don't get why laptops don't come with a touch screen by default
these days.

~~~
nwh
Hold your arm straight out in front of you.

Slowly count to 20.

Now you know why.

~~~
dman
Its winter remove your glove and try to use your touch screen phone. Now do it
for 20 more seconds.

~~~
nwh
I can't relate to that one at all actually, I don't think I've ever been so
cold that gloves have impeded my touchscreen use.

------
cryptoz
I spent two hours today trying to buy Nexus 7 at a popular mall with many
electronic stores. Not possible. Not even close.

There were about 30 different Windows 8 computers I could have bought instead,
with lots of stock. But _no thank you_!

~~~
psbp
I recently started using a Nexus 7. It's such an incredible little device. I
think Apple and Microsoft should be worried about the potent mix of Android
software and great hardware.

~~~
randomfool
The cheap device that rocks at web, email & facebook is a solid solution.

I really do think that Microsoft miscalculated by going for the high-end
tablet market rather than the budget device market.

------
zaidf
_It used to be that a new version of the Windows operating system was enough
to get people excited about buying a new computer, giving sales a nice pop._

Vague statements like above make me wish papers like NYT published detailed
sources. My entire family has been on Windows for around 15 years and not once
do I remember getting _excited_ about the upgrade...and yet, we've done the
upgrade. My family could be atypical but that is why I wish I had the source
behind the article lead.

~~~
brisance
Windows 95 which is 17 years ago. I remember people camping out for it.

~~~
lesterbuck
I remember "Start Me Up" by the Rolling Stones licensed by Microsoft as the
center of their advertising campaign. That is really a catchy riff and it
worked very well to generate buzz about the launch. (Windows 95 introduced the
Start button.) The common television ads for Windows 8 seemed built around
synchronized opening and closing of tablets/laptops. My, how the mighty have
fallen.

------
randomfool
Lots of theories, but it's only a month 'till MSFT Q4 results on Jan 24. Will
be interesting what the numbers look like and how Microsoft explains them.

------
Shenglong
I don't know if Windows 8 induced PC sales can be compared to previous
versions. The upgrade from 98/2000/ME/(whatever) to XP seemed, at least to the
consumer, like a monumental shift. People expected the same for Vista, and 7
was definitely a revolutionary improvement.

But that's it. Windows 7 is a great product, and I don't think anyone is
approaching Windows 8 with the mindset that it's going to fix anything with
Windows 7. If you buy it, you're probably buying it for the features or the
hype. Add that to the hardware stagnation, and there's not much incentive to
buy a new machine.

Lastly, we have more electronics than we did several years ago, so we've
artificially extended the useful life of each machine. Naturally, we're going
to renew our PCs less. So, the article got one thing right: tablets, just like
phones, are going to play a big part in future sales.

~~~
glogla
Or because you have no choice. Many consumer class laptops now are shipping
Windows 8 already, and in a year, it might be impossible to get one with
Windows 7. You can downgrade, but only if you have the Pro version, and that
won't appear on consumer class laptop.

------
buzzkillr2
I have bought two windows 8 laptops in the past month and have returned both
of them. Windows 8 works nicely, is quick and once you get over the hump of
figuring out the unintuitive UI is mostly nice to use. The hardware simply was
not up to the task of everyday use as a student. Trackpad, screen quality,
keyboard, and battery life were the deal breakers for me.

~~~
cagey
I returned my first (Toshiba) Win8 laptop less than 1 month ago after (a) the
(Synaptics Multi-touch) trackpad stopped working entirely (after Win Update
pushed Synaptics 16.2.10.3, the version Toshiba authorizes), and (b) even
after recovering and switching to 16.2.21 (the newest release from Synaptics'
website), it worked very unreliably and the simplest feature (which I
require), single-finger scrolling, would not work at all.

------
clarky07
Just because people aren't shopping in the Windows/Microsoft store doesn't
mean nobody is buying Windows 8. 40 million sales in a month is nothing to
sneeze at. I haven't tried the tablet version yet, but I have it dual booting
on my iMac and it runs just fine.

Also, FWIW, I just got a Windows 8 phone (HTC 8x) and have been porting a few
of my iPhone apps just as a test of the market. I switched from my iPhone 5
for a week just to test it out and I really liked it. There are still a few
apps missing, but for the most part everything I wanted was there. Overall I
think I like Windows 8 better than Android though it's close. I'm sticking
with my iPhone as I like it just a bit better than both, but they are all
pretty close, (and so freaking awesome compared to just a few years ago). To
someone who doesn't already have a lock in to one of the platforms I think
Windows 8 could be a good competitor.

------
petercooper
If only Microsoft would make it easy to buy!

I installed VMware Fusion yesterday and decided I'd like to have Windows 8 for
it. So I looked for a download to buy and Microsoft has one.. an "upgrade"
that costs about $40. Except I need something that's from scratch.

Long story short, I either have to pay $700 for an MSDN membership or buy and
wait for an "OEM" version to come from my favorite PC parts vendor. Let me buy
an ISO and a license key fer chrissakes!

I am wondering if it's viable to download a pirated ISO and then buy a license
key only somehow, but if not, I'll have to buy a disc and rip it on another
machine after the holidays.

~~~
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