

Arrington out at AOL (for real this time) - asanwal
http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/09/07/exclusive-arrington-out-at-aol-for-real-this-time/

======
sofuture
This is abhorrently unimportant drama. TC has been a trash rag from the start,
and their flaming dramatic burnout is just as trash as everything else they've
ever published. Go away already. This is publicity coup 101 shit. DIAF.

~~~
nl
I don't get the vitriolic hate that TechCrunch gets on HN.

Sure, it can be trashy at times but it plays a very useful role in the Startp
ecosystem. If it didn't exist then either Startups would get a lot less
attention or some other publication would fill its place.

I think startups getting less attention is - on the balance - a bad thing. If
a publication other than TC was publication-of-record then it is difficult to
say if it would be better or worse.

Arrington did a media startup, cashed out and was going to run a VC fund.
What's wrong with that?

~~~
diogenescynic
>Arrington did a media startup, cashed out and was going to run a VC fund.
What's wrong with that?

The details in between are what matter. I think most people are just put off
by his constant need to interject himself into the stories.

~~~
nl
Can you relate some examples that you found off putting?

I thought - for example - the whole CrunchPad thing was quite interesting. It
was an interesting product, and the posts gave a lot of insight into how
hardware businesses worked.

~~~
jarek
What did you make of the Last.fm story?

~~~
nl
They published a story they got from a source, which turned out to be (mostly)
wrong.

References:

[http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/02/20/did-lastfm-just-hand-
ov...](http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/02/20/did-lastfm-just-hand-over-user-
listening-data-to-the-riaa/)

<http://blog.last.fm/2009/02/23/techcrunch-are-full-of-shit>

<http://techcrunch.com/2009/05/22/deny-this-lastfm/>

I don't see how that is Arrington's " _need to interject himself into the
stories_ "

~~~
jarek
I found their reporting of the story very off-putting. To be more precise, it
was a hatchet job.

------
anonaol
(throwaway account for the natural reasons)

As an engineer at Aol, articles like this drive me crazy. I'm not 100% sold on
the company's viability as it stands (MapQuest, AIM, and Moviefone don't
really belong together), but I do want it to succeed. Bizzarre politicking
played out publicly and the steady stream of internal emails stating "so-and-
so got promoted and other-so-and-so is gone effective immediately" are getting
disheartening.

I know the siren song of "it doesn't have to be like this" that startups sing
(and, until relatively recently, all I worked at were startups). But
(surprise!) Aol has a lot of great engineers. Once you get an excuse to work
cross-property and can see that on a bigger scale, it begins to feel like
"Hey, if we had the opportunity, we could build some (more) amazing stuff."

But we're constantly reminded that this is a HuffPo world now and business
drama is par for the course. Sigh.

~~~
fleaflicker
aol is not a software company.

it is not a tech company either, and hasn't been for a long time.

it was an ad-sales company until 2008 and now it is a media company.

~~~
kanamekun
@fleaflicker - You would be in a unique position to know!

"Touchdown Called Back: Fleaflicker Founder Buys Back Fantasy Sports Site From
AOL"

"Over three years ago, we reported that AOL had acquired the New Jersey-based
fantasy sports site Fleaflicker. It seemed like a touchdown for 26-year-old
founder Ori Schwartz. Now it's looking more like a touchdown that was just
called back."

"AOL has alerted members of the service today that Schwartz has bought back
Fleaflicker. As of July 22, AOL will no longer be in control of the site which
has dwindled under the control of our parent company. "While we love
Fleaflicker (and our users love Fleaflicker), we wanted to find a home for the
product where it can receive more love and attention," is the subtle middle
finger in their FAQ."

<http://techcrunch.com/2011/06/22/fleaflicker-the-aol-way/>

------
mahmud
What do I have to do to never hear of this man again? EVER.

~~~
gnu6
I paraphrase the FBI's cordial letter of November 1964 to Dr. Martin Luther
King Jr.: "Arrington, there is only one thing left for you to do. You know
what it is. You have just 34 days in which to do [it]. … You are done. There
is but one way out for you. You better take it before your filthy, abnormal
fraudulent self is bared to the nation."

~~~
mahmud
Umm, that was a bit too heavy handed.

I wish the man health, long life and prospority. And I wish to myself an
internet without his drama.

~~~
gnu6
I agree, in retrospect my comment was totally inappropriate.

------
ethank
Reminds me of the Theseus Paradox: if all component parts (Arrington +
writers) of Techcrunch are replaced will it be Techcrunch?

And conversely, if all component parts setup shop at a new blog, is that
Techcrunch (a map/territory debate perhaps?)

Oh how I would kill to be the lawyers perusing employment agreements, anti-
poaching clauses, etc right now. And very much looking forward to Disrupt this
week.

~~~
TomOfTTB
I guess it depends on how you interpret this graph:
<http://siteanalytics.compete.com/engadget.com/?metric=uv>

(given their contentious relationship it is ironic that AOL killed both Jason
Calacanis and Mike Arrington's greatest accomplishments in the exact same way)

~~~
Dramatize
Compete/Alexa rankings are worthless. It is known.

~~~
TomOfTTB
I agree on the specific numbers and on smaller sites. But on sites as large as
engadget I think they can show fairly accurate trending

~~~
arn
They really don't, even for large sites.

comparison:

\- <http://www.quantcast.com/macrumors.com#traffic> (measured)

\- <http://siteanalytics.compete.com/macrumors.com/>

------
arepb
I don't think he was ever really going to become an "AOL Ventures" employee
per this erroneous subhead here. There are really only 3 guys at AOLV and it
seems his relationship with them was going to be as a LP.

------
ilamont
The sourcing on this article is vague ("Fortune has learned that AOL
executives have decided to terminate Arrington. It is unclear how this will
officially occur"). As we have learned in the past week, even when AOL sources
are on more solid footing the story seems to be quite slippery.

I feel bad for other TechCrunch employees who must be feeling very uncertain
about their careers right now, in an already uncertain industry.

------
olivercameron
Tech news just became a whole lot more boring. I, for one, will miss his
scoops, they were always the most exciting, scandalous ones.

~~~
Steko
Like he won't start a new site?

~~~
olivercameron
With a probable non-compete?

~~~
culturestate
Which noncompetes have been repeatedly held unenforceable (acquisition NC's
not included, but they usually have a short lifespan) in California?

~~~
staunch
He lives in Washington legally. Non-competes are generally enforceable even in
California in the case of acquisitions like this. It's hard to argue that he
wasn't given sufficient "consideration" which is usually the main issue for
normal non-competes in employment contracts. IANAL though.

~~~
nikcub
I doubt it could stop him starting a personal blog or tumblr. he might do it
just to find out what happens

------
juxta
I can see the headlines now "Crunchfund backed by AOL - will go without
Micheal Arrington just like the Crunchpad backed by Micheal Arrington - will
go without Micheal Arrington".

------
EponymousCoward
When does he appear on DWTS?

------
geboyr
After reading the article above as well as TechCrunch the past few days, does
anyone have another link or two detailing AOL's point of view in all of this?
Arrington branded this as needing journalistic independence, and per the
linked article, it seems to be bad execution of whatever it was AOL was trying
to do. Drama and secret motivations aside, anyone give credibility to
Arrington's call for journalistic independence of TC and what I'm perceiving
of his belief that one can still be called a 'journalist' if you're
transparent enough about what you're doing outside of the journalism job? To
take a quote from one of the people he interviewed at TC Disrupt in NY,
"transparency is the new objectivity" - any thoughts?

------
daimyoyo
Does anyone know if his earnout has a "without cause" section written into it?
Since Mike is a lawyer I presume it is but I don't know for sure. Seems likely
he was let go without cause and I wonder if that means he'll vest immediately.

------
molecule
<http://istechcrunchdeadyet.com/>

"What happens if arrington leaves (as many founders do)

"Site is done. He leaves, and his sources will follow him and he will setup
shop elsewhere."

~~~
Steko
Site will likely coast at current levels for awhile.

------
jmtame
Is there anything to stop Arrington from creating another news blog? He's
losing properties like CrunchBase and the conferences, but why not take a few
of the TC employees and keep writing news?

~~~
arepb
Yes, a noncompete. It will likely be something they leverage in order to do
his earnout.

~~~
ethank
Non-competes are flimsy in California, but a bit more on the "maybe" in
Washington. It all depends on which employment law his agreement (and the
employment agreements of the other writers, if they have them) are under.

Anti-poaching is typically a term of the severance and is enforceable
typically.

EDIT: Corrected below, thanks! Non-competes do apply in acquisitions.

~~~
callmeed
IANAL but my understanding is that an acquisition (eg AOL buying TC) is one
scenario where a non-compete holds up, even in CA.

~~~
_delirium
Even outside tech--- there was a Greek restaurant in Santa Cruz whose owner
sold it, and then waited exactly N years (I forget what N equals) before
opening a new restaurant, due to the noncompete.

------
kirillzubovsky
I think a lot of readers here fail to understand that the worry isn't whether
TC can live w/out Michael Arrington, but rather what kind of culture will be
instilled onto TC when Arianna Huffington has a direct say in what is being
said and done.

Sure, TC Disrupt can go without Arrington, but will you still like it when it
starts resembling more of New York fashion show?

On a very basic level, this is the same reason why investors used to dump
Apple stock every time Steve took a yet another leave of absence.

------
dave1619
This really could be the end of TechCrunch as we know it. It's too bad. HN and
TC are the two sites I frequent the most often. Arrington leaving will
probably lead to Siegler and maybe Kincaid leaving, and then TC is as boring
as any other site out there.

------
notatoad
does the end of the drama mean that i can stop paying attention to TC again
soon? they never seemed to have too much of a presence on HN or reddit, but
since all the Arrington drama has come up there seems to be a lot more of
their articles being shared, and i don't mean just the drama-related stuff.
people seem to be using TC as a source for all sorts of stuff that i would
normally see linked to on founder's blogs instead.

------
res0nat0r
I'm guessing this drama wouldn't have occurred if happened to anyone other
than Arrington.

------
alain94040
Let's just say that TechCrunch Disrupt next week will be fun to attend :-)

------
franze
well, here is a new TC story

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2973357>

basically a TC guy made a honest joke about HP and TC censored itself.

------
wavephorm
This whole things sounds like one big publicity stunt.

~~~
rdouble
Getting fired on purpose is a perfect way for him to go out. He gets his money
and gets to go work on something else, or simply not work. Meanwhile, AOL gets
stuck holding the bag and looking like the bad guy. I had an old boss who did
something similar.

------
drivebyacct2
Who cares? Does anyone think that TC OR Arrington will become any less
influential or important? If anything this is GREAT for Arrington. Lots of
press about his new venture, lots of press about his legacy TC, and now he can
act in an independent journalistic capacity (even with respect to his
investment company) for his own purposes.

I just don't get why there are two stories every day about this on HN.
(Nothing like TC drama to bring out the silent downvotes)

~~~
redthrowaway
His new venture has $8M of AOL funding promised to it, so that could be
awkward to say the least. The drama ain't over yet.

~~~
dasil003
Nah, it's a win-win. I mean I'm sure there will be follow-on drama because
that's part of the win.

------
zackattack
Is TechCrunch still going to give priority scoops to YCombinator startups? Is
YC's stock going to rise or plummet because of this? Will Arrington still have
Aol investing in his new fund? Will Arrington be eager to invest in YC
companies?

