
Why I left Substack and the Email Renaissance - kevin_indig
https://www.kevin-indig.com/why-i-left-substack-and-the-email-renaissance/
======
kevin_indig
2 years ago, I started a newsletter on Mailchimp called Tech Bound and built
it out to +3,000 subscribers. 3 months ago, I decided to migrate to Substack.
One week ago, I went from Substack to publishing on my own site. In this post,
I explain why, what my current stack looks like, and a larger trend that has
been in full swing for 2 years.

~~~
jacamera
Great read! The problems that you point out with social networks served as the
motivation for my co-founder and I to create Readup [1]. We rank articles
based on complete reads which slows down the overall pace considerably and
cuts out a lot of noise since users cannot post or comment on articles they
haven't really read.

I'd be really curious to hear your thoughts on our proposed business model
since it's based on compensating writers when Readup users read their articles
to completion. In short, users pay $10/mo to use Readup, we keep $5 and divide
the other $5 among the writers whose articles the user has read to completion
during that month.

You keep your own stack and there's nothing you have to do other than verify a
Readup account with us so we know who you are and collect any money earned.
Readup users can read your articles using our browser extensions or mobile
apps (I just did! [2]). You can view the full pitch [3] on YouTube.

[1] [https://readup.com](https://readup.com)

[2] [https://readup.com/comments/kevin-indig/why-i-left-
substack-...](https://readup.com/comments/kevin-indig/why-i-left-substack-and-
the-email-renaissance)

[3] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFw-
OiK3zjI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFw-OiK3zjI)

~~~
oefrha
I was suspicious about your "complete reads" claim so I signed up to see how
it works. Impressions:

1\. Doesn't work on Safari. Definitely not a great first impression.

2\. Sure, let's switch to Chrome (one of the three supported platforms:
Chrome, Firefox and iOS). Now all I get is a blocking modal "To read on
Readup, add the Chrome extension. Add to Chrome — It's Free". Sorry, not about
to install an extension for something that hasn't explained why it needs an
extension, let alone demonstrate any value to me, whether it's free or not.

Stalemate.

So let me ask: how do you tell a skim from a read? How do you distinguish a
complete read from scrolling down to comment section (maybe even slowly)?
Reading speeds vary greatly, and there's no mind-reading web API yet.

~~~
jacamera
Not a great first couple of impressions!

1\. Safari uses a completely non-standard extension model and right now I'm
the only developer so we're Chrome and Firefox only for the time being.
Definitely sucks.

2\. That's great feedback on that modal. Seriously, it never even crossed my
mind that we don't explain why the extension is required before displaying it.
Also that the "Add to Chrome" button makes it seem like it will trigger an
install instead of bouncing you over to the Chrome store where you can see
screenshots and a description of how it works before choosing to install. We
really need to fix that ASAP.

Re tracking: When the extension is triggered (limited permissions, it only
runs when you click the icon) it runs a script on the web page that tries to
identify the primary text of the article. Once identified, we mark the
individual words as having been read, starting at the top left of the
viewport. Since we keep track of individual words you can scroll around and
read out of order and the tracking will still work properly.

This process runs on a timer that allows for a pretty fast reading speed
(probably around 500-600 wpm) but doesn't allow a user to just sit on the page
for a long time or scroll right to the bottom. As you point out you can cheat
it by scrolling very slowly through the entire article. Still waiting on that
mind-reading API!

~~~
oefrha
Thanks for the reply and glad the feedback is of some value.

Re extension: I'm not clear on why an extension is needed for reading on
readup.com (as opposed to on publishers' sites). Seems to me you can do all
the tracking just fine with regular sandboxed JavaScript running on the web
page? To be clear, when I'm not logged in or on an unsupported browser, I'm
presented with two options: "Read it on Readup" (with a "Get Started" button)
and "Continue to publisher's site", the former apparently being the
recommended path; when I'm logged in there's only the "To read on Readup, add
the Chrome extension" modal, but if I understood what you track correctly,
reading on Readup shouldn't require any extra capabilities, whereas reading on
publisher's site should. So in theory a user should be able to read everything
on readup.com without using an extension, just like they would on
instapaper.com or feedly.com (but with some added tracking). Is that not the
case simply because you haven't had the time to develop native tracking, or
did I miss some fundamental limitations?

Re timer: 500-600 wpm is pretty fast on average but I can certainly beat that
when reading information-sparse content (e.g. most digital magazines) or when
I consciously try to read fast, and I know people who read way faster than
me... Also note that some people can maintain a high comprehension level even
at high speed while others struggle to comprehend even when reading word by
word. I guess your compromise may be okay, but it's certainly rather crude
(not that I have a better idea).

Btw, Safari 14 is adding WebExtension API support.[1] (You're probably already
aware of this but doesn't hurt to share.)

[1]
[https://developer.apple.com/documentation/safariservices/saf...](https://developer.apple.com/documentation/safariservices/safari_web_extensions)
(documentation is crap though, at a glance)

~~~
jacamera
Re: "Read it on Readup" \- Again, great point. It should be read _with_
Readup. To clarify, you're always reading _on_ the publisher's site. It would
be a crazy violation of copyright if we copied the article text into our web
app for you to read on readup.com. That's why we need the extension, to inject
the tracker into the publisher's article pages. Can you tell it's just the two
of us an neither of us are designers or UX experts?

> I guess your compromise may be okay, but it's certainly rather crude (not
> that I have a better idea).

Haha 100% agree. One day, maybe a reading speed calibration during new user
onboarding? As you pointed out though, speed varies even for an individual
depending on what kind of content they are reading.

> Btw, Safari 14 is adding WebExtension API support.[1] (You're probably
> already aware of this but doesn't hurt to share.)

Wow, I was not aware! This is awesome! Thank you for sharing.

------
tbran
I'm planning to launch a newsletter soon for a site I own that gets a
moderately decent amount of traffic. Here is a snippet of some handy things
I've found:

The cost of sending email is a lot on some platforms (Mailchimp is $30/month
for 2500 subscribers and $50/month for 5000 subs), but a lot cheaper with
Mailgun or Amazon SES. Sendy [0] and Mailcoach [1] are both self-hosted
newsletter sending apps that use Mailgun/SES if you want to DIY.

There is a handy blog post [2] from the creator of cron.weekly on his
newsletter workflow.

Don't put "weekly" in the newsletter name because then you're really setting
that weekly expectation. At some point, you might not want to be publishing
weekly unless you've got some serious automation happening.

There are some interesting ideas on newsletter businesses on gaps.com [3]. A
year ago I thought that a newsletter should link to my own content. But now?
Many, many newsletters are link aggregators.

[0] [https://sendy.co/](https://sendy.co/)

[1] [https://mailcoach.app/](https://mailcoach.app/)

[2] [https://ma.ttias.be/how-to-cron-weekly-
newsletter/](https://ma.ttias.be/how-to-cron-weekly-newsletter/)

[3] [https://gaps.com/six-figure-newsletter/](https://gaps.com/six-figure-
newsletter/)

~~~
drchopchop
Note: do not attempt to use something a low-level as SES to send newsletters
unless you understand all the plumbing that has to be built around it
(unsubscribe/opt-out, bounce handling, click tracking, IP pools, DKIM/SPF,
etc). This especially applies if your list is low-quality or old.

------
cally
"I’m one of a few that saw the power of RSS, which is now coming back in the
shape of podcasts"

I don't think the rise of podcasts is massively due to RSS. I think it's
because of the low cost / high creativity balance of the format, where the
format uses RSS.

~~~
toyg
It's somewhat ironic that podcasts have effectively outlived the two
technologies they were based on (rss and iPods). Accidents of history and all
that...

~~~
Andrew_nenakhov
Not ironic at all. All that matters is the content, not the way it is
delivered to the user.

~~~
magnio
Yeah tell that to the music industry.

~~~
Andrew_nenakhov
Music oligopoly, you mean?

------
monus
I’d be interested to see if the author will get as much exposure to new
potential subscribers without a platform like Substack of Medium promoting it.
IMO, it’s always been the community aspect of these platforms that keep the
authors locked in rather than the technical difficulties of setting up your
own website.

~~~
polote
Substack doesn't offer exposition, they barely have a discover page
[https://substack.com/discover](https://substack.com/discover) which always
show the same newsletters

And actually the effect can be negative as, Substack is known to make payment
based newsletters, people could avoid those links

~~~
skohan
As a consumer, I actually think this approach is great. I think a lot of the
issues platforms deal with in terms of making hard decisions around content
standards comes down to the fact that they put things in front of the user,
and therefore have some responsibility for what you see.

I think the only way you can really have a true "free speech" platform is to
make it entirely self-serve. As soon as there is algorithmic content
discovery, bad actors will attempt to game it to get their ideas in front of
people.

------
Sachaniman
The biggest thing for me is canonical URLs.

If I'm trying to BUILD an audience, I'm going to write content for free. If I
already have a website I post content on, you bet I'm going to keep posting my
free content there. Why am I competing with Substack on SEO for my own free
content? That's just stupid.

Eventually, if I actually get an audience that's willing to pay, I would use
Substack to offer that walled garden. Just like Youtube creators offer their
free content on Youtube, and paid content through other means like Patreon.

Even Medium supports canonical URLs. I'm not sure why Substack isn't satisfied
with being the distributor of my content, but also wants to be the home for
it.

~~~
kevin_indig
That was one of the reasons I decided to go with my own platform. But Substack
is not like Medium because it provides less discovery and more of a platform
for writers. Medium, on the other hand, is more like an aggregator.

~~~
Sachaniman
I was glad to see the canonical URL issue mentioned in your post, since that
was the main thing bugging me about Substack. Thanks for writing this!

When I sent Substack Support an email about the issues of content ownership
and canonical URLs in late May this year, I got this response:

>On Substack writers own all of their content, but we don't support
synchronizing with external website or have external websites as the canonical
url. Substack is meant to be the home for individual writers. Sorry about that

I love many things about Substack. Chiefly, the user experience of setting up
the newsletters, and the iframe embed (though it can be improved) are great.

But I hope Substack reconsiders what their idea of being a "home for
individual writers" means. Substack shouldn't have to be the source of my
content, but rather be the plumbing for it. It seems not supporting custom
canonical URLs was a conscious decision to force me to make Substack the
source of my content, which is disappointing.

I'll have to look into ConvertKit in the meantime.

------
tinyhouse
I'm surprised Substack's business model is charging ~10% from one's revenue. A
fixed pricing would make more sense. Why would anyone who is planning on
profiting from their newsletter would go with a deal like that? Building a
newsletter site these days is a pretty simple task with many no code
solutions. I'm not saying what Substack provides is not worth paying for, just
that it's a bad deal for people with successful newsletters that generate
money, and a good deal for everyone else. But the former users are the ones
Substack need in order to make money.

~~~
Dowwie
They're charging "ad valorem" \-- relative to the value received. The value
that a Substack user with 4000 subscribers receives isn't the same as what
someone with 50 subscribers receives. This is a very common fee structure that
exists across industries.

~~~
tinyhouse
The fact it's a common fee structure that exists across industries doesn't
mean it makes sense for Substack. And I wouldn't call 10% standard. Most
companies I know of, take Stripe for example, charge much smaller fees
percentage wise and rely on high volume transactions.

Maybe a better example I can think of is a referral site. Maybe a site like
Kayak can charge Marriott 10% each time they refer someone who books a room.
If that room wouldn't be booked otherwise it's probably a good deal for
Marriott. Substack does help with discoverability, and that's probably where
their main value is (similar to FB, Instagram, etc), but the problem is that
unlike the Marriott example, the fee is not a one time payment.

~~~
dna_polymerase
And you think Substack can achieve the same high volume as Stripe does?

> Substack does help with discoverability, and that's probably where their
> main value is (similar to FB, Instagram, etc), but the problem is that
> unlike the Marriott example, the fee is not a one time payment.

No, they also provide the platform, the tools, the analytics. They are not
just an aggregator. Also, Marriott has to pay for every transaction, just like
someone using Substack. You pay per transaction.

~~~
tinyhouse
> No, they also provide the platform, the tools, the analytics

Maybe I'm in a bubble but I don't see it as their main value for _successful
users who make money from their newsletter_. I've setup a newsletter with
analytics a few weeks ago without writing a single line of code and with a
fixed cost (and custom domain...). Yes, starting with Substack is cheaper to
start with but long term it'll cost you).

> Marriott has to pay for every transaction, just like someone using Substack.
> You pay per transaction.

I guess I'm not familiar enough with Substack. What does it mean you pay per
transaction? It's a newsletter - you make money from paying subscribers who
pay monthly let's say. Are you saying Substack users pay per email sent to
their paying subscribers?

~~~
tinyhouse
> No, I was referring to the whole Marriott thing. If you book a Marriott
> hotel with an aggregator (like Kayak), Marriott has to pay for that booking.
> If you do it the next week again, Marriott has to pay again.

> Substack fees work the same, you pay a fee to Substack whenever a person
> renews (transaction).

> So to make the loop back, no the Kayak example works the same way as
> Substack does.

Replying here since HN doesn't let me reply to the comment directly (probably
reached the max number of nested replies).

I now understand your example but I disagree with it. A newsletter, unlike a
hotel, relies on a small number of paying users who are likely to renew their
membership. Many even pay for annual membership. The main cost is finding a
new paying user. Once the user is subscribed it's the newsletter's job to keep
that user paying. Marriott pays Kayak only for new users. Next time the user
can book a room via the Marriott site. It doesn't need to keep paying Kayak
for life every-time that user books a room.

------
jetgirl
Good for you. I quit using tinyletter after two years, switched to substack
and quit that last week. [https://jetgirl.art/2020/06/27/going-back-to-
blogging/](https://jetgirl.art/2020/06/27/going-back-to-blogging/)

------
gramakri
Why is it that one cannot export content from substack?

~~~
kevin_indig
I dunno. There's no feature.

~~~
l9k8j7h6
"Guys, a few of our customers are unhappy and want to leave. We need
Engineering to drop everything and start building a feature to let these
customers stop paying us more easily."

~~~
iuguy
I don't pay Substack anything. In fact they've paid me.

------
musicale
> you can monitor ad or organic performance with tracking pixels!

Use of tracking pixels is not a pro. It is a dark pattern that needs to go
away.

------
dgudkov
Is there a self-hosted alternative to Substack?

~~~
elicash
Ghost.org has membership features and email integration.

Could use the substation theme:
[https://substation.rdnthemes.com](https://substation.rdnthemes.com)

