
Shutting down my side project of two years - joshsharp
http://joshsharp.com.au/blog/view/shutting-down-blasterfm
======
alaskamiller
You need a team.

I have the same problem doing things myself. I see the overlapping
demographics too, I see the nebulous potential use cases too, I see the end
products too, I finish them and then get saddened by the lack of polish or
details I could put into it to match competitors.

After spending some time at big corps I came away with a realization: I needed
a team to back me up.

Those guys that work at the fancy office parks with the free lunches and bus
shuttles to everywhere, they don't work that hard! It's because they have the
right amount of people to do the right amount of work on the right amount of
things.

I also think of it as a fireteam from my Marine Corps training. When we engage
in a firefight we utilize tactics of a lead, advance, backup with fire, lead,
advance, backup with fire again, repeat.

You need backup.

The process you've established is correct, you just have to keep using that
process to find the right product fit. Then you need to make a go at it,
delegating work, polish, market, and sell.

~~~
jlongster
Then the real question is: how do you build a team? We're talking about just
one or two other people who are basically "cofounders". Finding these
relationships is much harder than just hiring somebody, because you need to
work especially well with them.

~~~
mzarate06
Having built a product, I'll also add that early on it's not just about
finding someone you can work well with, they also need to believe in the
product and bring some level of passion for it to the table.

I can work well with any number of people, but few understand the importance
of things like audience building, using the product on a daily basis, etc.,
and even the ones that do might not act on that stuff. Overall passion for
execution and moving the product forward are critical.

Maybe this is what you meant, but I wanted to add my 2 cents to clarify.

~~~
jlongster
It's absolutely what I meant. I'm not actively looking to start a company or
product right now, but I've wondered how more introverted people form those
relationships with just the right people.

I'm curious if it usually happens naturally or if there's a lot of people that
find cofounders after building the initial product.

~~~
mbesto
Just like product design, I've found it sometimes takes months and years to
find the right team, and sometimes it just happens. Lots of luck in business,
especially when it comes to building teams.

------
redact207
Ironic that you make the HN front page when you're shutting it down.

It takes a lot of humility and courage to write such a candid post on
something that was obviously the foundation of your hopes for two years. I
have great respect for that.

Was it a complete failure? Absolutely not. You've picked up a great amount of
technical expertise in the process. More importantly after all this is in the
past you'll be able to reflect on it objectively and realise your mistakes and
shortcomings - and you'll know, unemotionally, that they were to do on the
marketing side.

Rob Walling said something once that stuck with me ever since. If you're
looking to build something, approach it in order of "market, marketing,
aesthetics, functionality." Not to paint with a broad brush, but it will at
least help you realign your focus next time you jump into something like this.

Because you will jump into something like this again.

~~~
joshsharp
Thanks. I am working on something new actually, but this time with a
cofounder. We're taking the opposite approach - find the market, customer
development, then build something. I think both having a cofounder and taking
this approach make a lot of sense if you are serious about the project. When I
started blaster.fm, I wasn't.

~~~
krichman
I think having customers early is key to creating a sustainable project. A
good co-founder is also priceless. It sounds to me like you're on the right
track, I wish you luck in whatever you do next.

------
donniefitz2
After reading your article and looking at the site, I think you might be
pulling the plug too early. I have been in the same boat before. You spend all
the time to build something, you believe it's got legs and then....radio
silence. Then you get some interest but it never really takes off.

I would bet that if you really talked, like physically talked (phone, Skype)
with your users, especially those who haven't been active for a while, you
might start to learn more about what you need to do to gain more traction and
develop the product further.

------
sachingulaya
Without knowing more details my takeaway is that "build it and they will come"
is not an effective user acquisition strategy.

1) What was the feedback from your friends who were using it?

2) Did you try to talk to customers to see why they left? What did they say?

3) Sticking around for a month is pretty significant. Do you know what kept
people were sticking around for that long?

------
chrisduesing
I haven't found the Flippa community to be overly drawn to custom tech (i.e.
not wordpress, etc.) unless there is already a large audience for the site. I
think the HN crowd needs a Flippa equivalent for abandoned projects.

I am happy to donate the domain startuptrader.com to the effort :)

~~~
joshsharp
I agree, and I'm not sure how well it will go on Flippa. I think you have a
point! Hopefully someone will build something.

~~~
whileonebegin
If you really want to sell, you need to improve your Flippa auction. Set your
starting bid to $1. Set your reserve price to something realistic; in the low
$100's. I know the site was your baby and you put a lot of effort into it, but
buyers are mainly concerned with if the site is currently making money or if
it has a high ranking and gets a ton of traffic. Your site is a PR-2 and has
no income, so that's a factor. Reduce the auction time-length to 5 or 7 days.
You'll get most bids in the final 24 hours. That's how you move a site. :)

~~~
joshsharp
Ha, sounds like ebay.

I agree that Flippa buyers are mostly concerned with sites that are making a
profit, and I'm not sure blaster.fm is a good fit for its market. Having said
that, if it's only worth a couple hundred dollars, I'd rather just not sell
it.

------
orangethirty
I think you are making the correct choice. What you built is an app. And it
seems that it is a good one. But building the business behind this app is a
challenge that you do not want to pursue. So don't do it. Don't listen to
those who say "get a co-founder". That wont fix anything. Your focus is not
it. Sell it, move on.

I'm not even sure it is a viable business itself. Aside from advertising, it
has very few options as it stands. You would need to modify the platform in
order to introduce other profit channels. But you already said you don't want
any more of it.

~~~
joshsharp
Thanks, I think you got the point of the post and your conclusion is spot on.

I think I would put it under what pg called "a dangerous bad idea" (can't
remember the exact wording) because it initially looks like a good idea - hey,
a social network for music! I might use that - but turns out to be built on a
false premise.

~~~
orangethirty
Yes, exactly. People don't realize that you can't make. Business out of
everything. Plus there are some ideas that will actually hurt you more than
anything. But the great thing about this is that you learned. Lot from it.
Take a break. Digest your experiences and try again with something entirely
different. Before you do, get the contact details of the people who use your
current app. That's a market that knows you and will be receptive to whatever
you come out with. It could be the difference between failing again and
turning a profit from the start. good luck.

------
timjahn
I agree with alaskamiller - you need at least a co-founder. Having somebody to
bounce ideas off of and ask questions to is invaluable.

More importantly though, forget about the technology. After reading your post,
it sounds like you're frustrated because you spent a ton of time implementing
super hip technology and yet still nobody is coming.

People don't care about technology. They care about what your site does for
them. You also didn't appear to talk to too many users to find out what it is
they needed.

My advice is to follow the data. If your data shows that nobody needs your
site, then shut it down. But don't shut it down because you built it and hoped
they'd come without trying any marketing or customer research.

------
IgorPartola
Your story, down to the timeframe mirrors mine. I created a Pingdom competitor
(<https://www.pingbrigade.com>) that was cheaper to operate and cheaper for
the users, while being easier to use and supported IPv6. After I launched it I
got several hundred sign ups over the two years, but nobody seemed interested
in the paid accounts (they let you monitor more than one thing). I did not
realize just how attached I would get to this project and how the fact that it
never became profitable would weigh on me. Last month I decided to pull the
plug on it and sent out an announcement to the users. I got a few responses of
"Noooooo!!!! Why???!!" I know for a fact that business development and
marketing were not there and that is why it never took off, but it was my
flagship project and it is hard to let it go.

Good luck to you on your next project. Hope it does better.

~~~
jeremyjh
Thanks for posting about this, I think you've mentioned it before and its
changed my mind about offering a free product, other than a 30-day trial for
my current side-project. I don't want to get a couple hundred users who love
my product but are just a burden for me when the site fizzles. I also don't
want 500,000 customers I cannot monetise or even get any marketing value from.
With a consumer-oriented site like the SP it is different - you have to give
something like that away

~~~
IgorPartola
I am glad to share my experience. If you end up learning from my mistake, I am
happy for it. The sad thing is that I was thinking that I was doing it right:
I had the whole freemium thing with individuals using the free version and
larger entities going for the paid accounts. Turns out that if there is a
large competitor in the space it doesn't matter that they are twice as
expensive for their cheapest plan: a business will go with them because of the
reputation. In fact, I think their price point makes people feel more
comfortable. My paid plan was $4/month (vs PingDom's $9), but I think that's
what made it seem like the cheaper alternative. But the biggest problem was
that the free plan was too good. It should have lasted for 30 days and then
automatically started charging for the premium service.

Anyways, good luck!

~~~
gromy
Things I might have tried (w/ time & energy): a better logo, more SEO, plans
start at $10/yr /monitor, 30-45-60-day trial. Text alert to pay for service
near end of trial.

------
joshsharp
I think what a lot of people are missing in this post (and maybe this is my
fault for not making it quite clear) is that I do know marketing is the
missing ingredient. I'm entirely aware that you can't build something and just
hope that people will come and use it. Even if I didn't want to think about
this initially.

The problem with saying "you're almost there, you need marketing" is that I am
done. I don't have the effort for marketing. I started the site for fun, to
scratch an itch, and that has passed. Maybe I'm close, but in all likelihood I
could've done everything right and still got nowhere. I need to draw a line in
the sand, and this is it.

However, it's nice to have people acknowledge that the problem is most likely
marketing oriented, rather than a fault with the site.

It is a pretty nice site.

~~~
orangethirty
No, the problem is not marketing. The problem is that it is a product designed
without profitability in mind. Making it profitable would require a
fundamental change in the product itself. That it is why you are lucky this
did not grow more than it did. It would have left you with something people
use a lot but without any way to make money off of it.

~~~
joshsharp
_Making it profitable would require a fundamental change in the product
itself._

Not necessarily, this is just speculation.

While designing for profitability is definitely the _better_ way to create a
product, there are plenty of successes which have simply aimed for millions of
users and figured out their monetisation strategy afterwards. This seems
particularly true for "social" products. It may have worked for blaster.fm, it
may not. We can't know.

~~~
orangethirty
You make a good point but it is flawed. The startups that have been successful
without a revenue model are an itty bitty little minority. Compare to those
that have failed without it and you can see that the pattern is clear. You
need to design with profits in mind. You don't open a pizzeria and give away
pizza. You give samples once or tsice but you charge for pizza from the start.

But I'm not blaming or shaming you. Your project got further than most. It was
very good learning experience which has give you a lot of tools you did not
have before. Tools that will help you on uour future endeavors. Just make sure
to starting charging from the start next time.

------
vineet
I wonder what would happen if you spend as much time on marketing as you spent
on development. I am not sure which would be the best: perhaps blog posts,
facebook activity, small ads, or guest posts on different sites.

Or, what if you spent as much time on 'biz dev' as you spent on development.
Perhaps talking to some music communities online and having them link to you
guys in exchange for highlighting their music or providing some service to
them.

I am not saying that the above would work. I likely would have had similar
biases as you. But as I grow up as an entrepreneur I am beginning to realize
all the hats that I need to wear (and that when I get lucky one of these hats
makes a huge difference).

------
nathanlil13
This is why I'm scared to invest too much time into something that isn't
directly for my benefit.

~~~
711Li
Anything you build, however, is to your benefit, as long as you are able to
learn from the experience.

~~~
nathanlil13
True. That's mostly my focus for now. I think a lot of people get stuck trying
to do something to big to fast. Great ideas take time to make happen.

------
robot
"I checked in weekly to post a track, but no longer considered it in active
development."

If you check the site only once a week, why should other users bother?

The site infrastructure is I believe valuable. One can pivot into a different
idea using the same infrastructure and simply move on, re-using the code base.

------
belcherj
Have you thought about creating it as a Spotify app. Also have you thought of
FB integration to add friends easily. Additionally once they have FB auth'd
you could add in FB stories. There is always a careful balance with sharing,
you don't want to be one of those auto follow sites or push to many spammy
stories. It is amazing what people will share given the option. I like the
site!

------
habosa
I can't vouch for the service but consider a campaign on
<https://www.bountysource.com>

Maybe you can get enough money from people who want feature improvements to
keep the site up for a little longer. If you have some consistent users you
must be doing something right, and it definitely looks like a well made
website.

~~~
wkonkel
I'm one of the co-founders of BountySource and would be happy to answer any
questions about our service. We're also on irc.freenode.net in #bountysource
if you want to come chat!

~~~
arafalov
You desperately need faceted search on that interface. Something like Apache
Solr. Otherwise, it is very interesting to look through the projects.

I also don't know if all those 'joiners' icons add much, especially since many
of them a blank github images. Social proof is great, but I would put
something else in there instead. Something more action-causing.

Just a thought.

------
ibudiallo
I think you are pulling the plug too early. You just finished the development
part. Now is time for marketing. Believe it or not, just posting on hackers
news have gotten you a few new users. (maybe it was your plan all along ) But
still now that you have refined the code focus on the users listen to their
needs. And focus on acquiring more. The game only begins. 49webzone.com was
started by a friend of mine and it took off only after 13 years.

I just deployed my first big project last week and my plan is to spend 80% of
my time on marketing and the rest on fixing bugs. Maybe it will fail but I
will make sure I do what most of us developers try to avoid like a disease....
Marketing!

------
afshinmeh
Eat your own dog food. I believe developers should use their application
before others. If you feel good about what you built, of course users feel
good also.

~~~
stablepeak
He likes the application and has gone through a lot of beta testing with
friends. The problem seemed to be that he was not willing to put more effort
into pushing the project.

------
meric
Is it possible to decouple the dependency on Last.fm, in case they shutdown
their API? If it is possible I will consider making a bid.[1] Can you also
upload your analytics? How many 'core users' are left?

[1] Probably just going to let it sit there if I do get to buy it. I buy
abandoned side projects because I feel sad seeing web services becoming
unavailable.

~~~
joshsharp
That's very noble of you.

It's definitely possible, but you're always going to need a provider for song
metadata (album art, album name, artist details etc). If you move from last.fm
you'd have to find someone else to provide the corresponding data.

~~~
boyter
I would suggest Discogs. They have full data dumps with this information
<http://www.discogs.com/data/>

~~~
iand
Or musicbrainz <http://musicbrainz.org/>

------
devgutt
It is strange that all the new ideas seem to stem only from you instead of
your users. I don't think that you would have found a better product
interating only with yourself. For example, in the land page, it would be
better to see a discussion of a very well-know music, and invite to see other
songs that I like.

------
jbrooksuk
This looks awesome, what a shame you're closing it. You've made front page of
HN - for the wrong reasons - you've had positive comments and people are
interested.

You need to focus on marketing the product you've made so well. Try it. I've
signed up to this too.

------
antoniuschan99
I'm wondering if you just need to spend time on marketing? What are your
thoughts of 4 Steps to Epiphany by Steve Blank?

------
pramodliv1
Maybe you could team up with <http://www.thisismyjam.com/>

------
prawn
Were/are you using the site yourself?

~~~
akcreek
There was a link to his profile in the flippa listing:
<http://blaster.fm/joshsharp/posts/>

~~~
Domenic_S
Look how sporadic the posts are. That should tell you something...

