
Chariot is shutting down - muzz
https://blog.chariot.com/2019/01/10/important-update-from-chariot/
======
idoh
I used Chariot a bit a couple years ago. Sad to see it go. For people who
haven't heard of it, it worked like this: I live in SF, and worked in Redwood
City. Every day, there was some type of large van that would pick me up a
couple blocks from where I lived and dropped me off a couple blocks from where
I worked. So it was like a middle ground between public transportation and
Uber / Lyft.

~~~
aniketpant
Isn't what you described an example of how buses work. I know very little
about the state of public transport in SF but if it was better won't it solve
what Chariot tried to do?

~~~
rconti
San Francisco and Redwood City are roughly 30 miles apart. In the Bay Area, in
particular, buses tend to work on a city or county level, which would mean to
make this trip, assuming buses were conveniently located, timed, and without
too many stops, it would involve using several transit systems, unfortunately.
San Francisco and Redwood City not only have dozens of other cities between
them, but they're also in 2 different counties (San Francisco and San Mateo
county, to be specific). I don't want to say we don't have cooperation between
transit agencies, but they are at least distinct entities for these services.

A better solution would be the train. Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART) serves
many counties and cities, but does not go that far south.

Caltrain serves both San Francisco and Redwood City quite well; however, the
nearest station is miles from the Marina district, and depending on
destination, would require a transfer on the other end as well.

Of course, I'm sure Chariot involved multiple stops as well, but presumably
most riders took it every day, so it was a route that was tailored to the
riders of that van, rather than a generic public transit service that might
have inconveniently timed transfers, too many stops, or other issues.

EDIT: Actually, it looks like I am incorrect. SamTrans (San Mateo County)
actually does go from Redwood City to San Francisco by bus, at least on the
397 and 398 routes, but only midday and it will take almost 2 hours, as it's
entirely on surface streets for those ~30 miles (and the terminus on either
end is not particularly more likely to be more convenient than the much faster
train)
[http://www.samtrans.com/schedulesandmaps/maps.html](http://www.samtrans.com/schedulesandmaps/maps.html)

~~~
dabockster
This sounds like why Sound Transit exists in the Seattle-Tacoma metro area. It
basically creates an adapter pattern-like third agency that manages the long
distance routes between the major cities and counties.

~~~
cbhl
The problem is that two municipalities (one on each side of the bay) voted
down the measures that would have funded the regional transit agency.

Thus, the train lines stop at the borders of these two municipalities, and
there are two other train systems that cover the missing area.

(BART, Amtrak, and Caltrain.)

~~~
masonic
Not "municipalities"; counties.

And they opted out because they would have had to pay in fully with no service
for years, followed by inferior service forever (they were to be cash cows).

------
SilasX
Wasn't it profitable when Ford acquired? Isn't there a pretty reliable
userbase? How did they mess it up?

I don't mean to be the conspiracy guy, but it matches the pattern of the
streetcar thing: Buy car-obviating service, shut it down.

~~~
kelp
This is purely my own speculation informed by some Clayton Christiansen, but
it's possible that someone at Ford sees Ford as a transportation company, not
a car company. So the job to be done is moving people and things around. Ford
also sponsors the Ford GoBikes that you see all over San Francisco. This could
be seen as competing with the Ford the car company. Or it's just part of the
portfolio of products from Ford the transportation company.

That kind of thinking could help them mitigate disruptive pressure, especially
in markets like SF where driving is pretty awful, but so is transit.

~~~
ijustwanttovote
Ford just stopped the GoBike sponsorship, so I think they are moving out of
alternative means of transportation.

~~~
jds375
Hopefully that doesn't get shut down anytime soon (it's actually owned by Lyft
I think). That service is one of the few services I've seen over the past
several years I've seen where I've gone "Wow, this is a great thing for the
world"

------
eob
I just wanted to chime in to thank Chariot for the service they provided.

In my experience, few startups literally make your entire day better. I’ve
been using Chariot to commute across SF for about two years and it has given
me more time at home with my wife and son, better ability to predict when I’ll
arrive at work, and a way to use my commute as a quiet space for the reading I
could never quite manage on a crowded bus.

So thanks to the whole team. Very sorry that the numbers didn’t quite work out
at the end of the day, as it often turns out in the startup game.

~~~
ctab
Thanks for the kind words. The ability to improve people's daily lives, as you
described, was a big reason a lot of us chose to work there and something we
were hoping to see at a larger scale eventually. Today's news came as a shock
to most of us.

------
olivermarks
Ford owned, and Ford are making major cutbacks this week.
[https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-buys-
chariot-65-million...](https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-buys-
chariot-65-million2016-9)

~~~
dopamean
Man. I feel bad for the employees. They probably thought getting bought by a
big company like Ford meant they would stick around for a while.

~~~
aezed
Getting bought by a big company rarely means that the acquired employees are
going to stick around for awhile.

~~~
capkutay
Not necessarily true. A lot of acquisitions are 'acquihires' meaning they were
bought just for their talent capital.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Acquihiring doesn't necessarily involve keeping _everyone_ from the acquired
company.

~~~
Aeolun
Nor does it mean keeping the company itself.

------
laurentoget
Not very surprising. There is a problem with trying to fund urban transit by
selling it as a service for those who use it. urban transit is a service which
benefits every member of the community it serves , both individuals and
corporations, by reducing congestion. In most places with an efficient transit
network, fare revenue is not the biggest source of funding.

This is shocking for americans who grow up in the post Reagan era, but some
things are easier done by governments.

~~~
hrktb
> In most places with an efficient transit network, fare revenue is not the
> biggest source of funding

It was eye opening to me to hear about train companies that heavily invest in
land development and partnered with the cities to build places to go. In Japan
they own department stores and actively participate in business development to
grow whole areas, wherever they see opportunities.

~~~
Aeolun
I was so surprised to see a whole town just basically stamped out of the
ground next to a new shinkansen station. Right up until I found out it was all
built by the train company.

------
capkutay
I used Chariot for about a year commuting from the Marina district of SF to
Caltrain. It was basically an adult version of a soccer mom taking the
neighborhood kids to practice in a mini van. It's definitely an improvement
over taking MUNI...but its not any better than using UberPool. It wasn't
'fancy' by any means. You were just crammed into a sprinter van.

As far as I remember, UberPool either wasn't available or popular at the time
Chariot started. Obviously the concept of Chariot wouldn't seem viable at all
if you tried to do it in 2019.

------
xaybey
I used Chariot daily for my commute when I lived in the outer richmond (24th
ave). Its existential purpose was to ensure you would only travel with fellow
commuters, and not the raving lunatics who rode the muni. It was a kind of
bridge above the fray.

------
dawhizkid
I recently watched the Anthony Bourdain episode where he goes to Nairobi and
rides on a "matatu", which are essentially privately operated party buses for
commuters. I thought that was actually a pretty neat idea and could definitely
see a market for that.

[https://explorepartsunknown.com/kenya/matatus-rule-
nairobis-...](https://explorepartsunknown.com/kenya/matatus-rule-nairobis-
roads/)

~~~
mlevental
matatu just means taxi or something like that (it actually comes from 'three'
in Swahili because the conductors used to yell "give me three" at potential
passengers). they are absolutely no fun to ride since the operators pack them
to the brim with people and other cargo (animals too) and they wait until full
to take off (so sometimes, for infrequently traveled routes you end up waiting
hours). this is all to say nothing of being in terrible disrepair. here is the
taxi park in Kampala
[http://photos.wikimapia.org/p/00/00/37/50/05_big.jpg](http://photos.wikimapia.org/p/00/00/37/50/05_big.jpg).
each minivan is a matatu.

source: lived in Uganda for 2 years. rode matatus countless times. almost died
many times. shat myself exactly twice.

~~~
dawhizkid
haha I'm not saying an exact replica - I mean the general idea of a themed
privately operated bus is interesting. obviously it would be subject to more
regulatory scrutiny than over there. you could have a party bus vibe, or a
meditation one, or a social one, etc etc.

~~~
mlevental
no worries i didn't think you meant exact replica - just giving some context.

------
ctime
I'm assuming the ease and likely success of UberPool[1] was the straw that
broke the camel's back. Even Waze has a similar offering [2].

Yet I'm not at all surprised they ran out of cash (I'm assuming) and had to
shutter. I do feel bad for the folks (drivers and support type folks) who are
now out of a job.

[1] [https://www.uber.com/ride/uberpool/](https://www.uber.com/ride/uberpool/)

[2] [https://www.waze.com/carpool](https://www.waze.com/carpool)

------
hmexx
My gf is using this everyday in London and it cuts her commute time by 30%.
Godsend.. but she's alone in the bus 9 out of 10 times. We've dreaded this day
but knew it would come. I'm about to tell her now. Crap!

------
leroy_masochist
Sad to hear this.

People talked a lot of shit about Chariot -- "Silicon Valley tech bros got
funding and invented a bus route", blah blah blah -- but urban minibus routes
are AWESOME when well-executed.

Seriously we were promised flying cars and we can't even get marshrutki.

------
paxys
I tried the service out for a little while, but it ultimately didn't make
sense to me. Routes were too rigid, schedule not frequent enough, had to
schedule trips in advance, and it cost as much or even more per ride than Uber
Pool/Lyft Line.

------
scrumbledober
I had a chariot driver cut me off on my bike while i was riding down second
street and he was turning left onto second across my lane. He stopped once in
my lane and I didn't have enough time to stop so I hit the side of his van,
somewhat damaging my bike. He looked right at me and then drove away. I tried
to contact chariot about this and got absolutely nowhere. Glad to see them go.

~~~
ryanbertrand
I had an encounter with one of their drivers tailgating me for ~1 mile until
they finally sped past me and cut me off. I was going above the speed limit.
Not sure if there were customers in the car, but I would hope not.

------
zapzupnz
I'd not heard of Chariot before this. Was it widely used? It looked like Uber
meets carpooling, or perhaps some sort of fancy work shuttle — and work
shuttle companies open and close all the time, so I don't see what's
newsworthy.

They don't state why they're closing down, so I'm a bit puzzled on this one.

~~~
k_sh
It's probably on the front page because Chariot was part of YC W15, and later
acquired by Ford.

~~~
zapzupnz
Thanks, that fills things in.

------
raz32dust
Seems like such a great idea on paper. I've seen these parked in various spots
in SF. Why do you think they failed? Too asset heavy? I am guessing the cost
of vehicles and maintenance, parking spots, regulations etc. was too much? A
similar service based on uber model might be more successful, where the
company doesn't own the vehicles? Not sure how to provide reliable service
that way, though. Perhaps a hybrid?

~~~
ryanbertrand
They were acquired by Ford. Doesn’t seem like a failure...even if shitting
down after 2 years.

~~~
raz32dust
I meant failure in the larger context, not silicon valley failure :)

~~~
OJFord
I don't think that's failure in any context...

------
dzonga
in Africa, we've the 'taxi' system or aptly named Kombi's after the VW model.
It picks you from say downtown and drops you by the stop sign or intersection
to your house. Pretty much covers almost every neighborhood and street in a
decent southern african city. Guess here in the west, it got complicated via
apps. & these taxis run pretty frequently i.e maybe every 10 mins depending on
capacity. I live in Austin and saw Chariot and bastard westernized appified
version of the african taxi system.

------
SergeAx
In Russia we call it "marshrootka", like "routed taxi", missing link between
taxi and bus. It is a large and demanded industry, cash-only and poorly
regulated. Check out the variety of minivan models and conditions with single
Google Images search:
[https://www.google.com/search?q=%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%88%D1%...](https://www.google.com/search?q=%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%88%D1%80%D1%83%D1%82%D0%BA%D0%B0&tbm=isch)

------
samstave
Will they be selling off their fleet?

~~~
driverdan
That's my first question too. I wonder if there will be some good deals on the
vans.

~~~
dawnerd
Probably off to auction where a lot of rental cars end up too. I’m sure if you
keep an eye out on the various auto auction sites you’ll see some pop up.

------
dr_
I’ve seen them around NYC, downloaded the app and waited for them to expand
their routes but they never did. I’m not sure why. Seems like a good idea -
but I suppose it may have been a challenge to compete with the wide variety of
services, including public transportation, that are available in the city.

~~~
sethhochberg
I've seen a lot of startups that have success in SF struggle with NYC because
they treat it like the same kind of city. Between the half-dozen mass transit
services operating in and around the city, a robust network of express
commuter buses (both public _and_ private), dollar vans and gypsy cabs, there
is an extremely robust transit network here - even if unconventional at times,
and maligned with delays at others. By comparison, despite having roughly
comparable density within the city itself, transit in SF just sucks. I'm not
surprised they never gained much traction in NYC. Via seems to fill the niche
Chariot would be trying to occupy, if we're looking for a direct startupy
comparison, and Via additionally operates outside of commute hours. NYC has
some kind of "legacy" provider for most kinds of problems, everything from on-
demand delivery of food and goods 24hrs to transportation to light laborers
and most of the other trendy app platform services.

~~~
neom
I thought it would be useful when the L train shuts down and had planned to
use them then, but now that's not happening I suppose they lost that advantage
(also amusingly lyft has spent a boat load advertising the shut down around
williamsburg recently).

------
pianoben
I have such a strong feeling of deja vu right now - didn't they shut down once
before already, and sell off their fleet? Is this their second shutdown?

~~~
ceocoder
I think you are thinking of Leap[1], one that offered "luxury" buses, barista
made coffee on bus etc.

[https://www.wired.com/2015/05/leap-suspension-shows-
regulato...](https://www.wired.com/2015/05/leap-suspension-shows-regulators-
are-watching-startups/)

------
diiaann
I know some people are very critical. I'm a big transit enthusiast but I still
see how some work routes are long to walk, but not well served via transit,
i.e. NoPa to Brannan St (Airbnb, Pinterest). Friends that were faced with
trickier public transit options didn't seem enticed by Chariot. They seem to
settle on biking/scootering, long walk, or choosing to take rideshare
everyday.

------
optimusclimb
This service was a godsend when I lived there, due to how abysmal Muni was.
Sorry to hear it didn't work out for them.

~~~
badwolf
I've been using it daily here in Austin. Sad to see it go. :(

------
BurritoAlPastor
Good riddance; my exposure to Chariot was mostly of them blocking the Golden
Gate Transit commuter bus pickup zones.

------
elektor
For the people that used this and are upset about Chariot shutting down, you
should give Waze Carpool a try.

~~~
gnicholas
Can you share some experience on how you’ve used Waze Carpool, or how the
economics work? I’ve wondered about it but not tried it out.

~~~
elektor
It's essentially a simplified Uber/Lyft app where I put in my home/work
address and a window of time when I make my commute. Afterwards, I see a list
of people who are on my route. Then, I can offer someone a ride or request a
ride.

Right now Google is subsidizing rides so I think it's $2 a trip. Otherwise
it's less than a dollar a mile, whatever the IRS sets the gas write-off as.

------
kgwgk
See also
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18877645](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18877645)

------
wmab
It's a shame to say goodbye to something that is quite synonymous with San
Francisco life. From the comments a lot of people don't "get it" and then
think that this is the reason it failed. I'm sure it's a decision based on the
complexities of scaling and working with each city and county to make a truly
successful business that they ran into too many problems.

Not all businesses need to grow to huge heights to not be considered
successful. It's a shame they can't continue to operate in the areas that it
works well in (such as here in SF). Scoot have had a hard time growing, but
are as successful as ever in SF, so that should be seen as a success in
itself. We now have very lofty expectations for businesses either Blitzscaling
[1] or dying, but surely it doesn't need to be that binary.

Clearly private solutions to commuting need to exist, people are not satisfied
with the public transit in most cities. In a capitalist country, the markets
will reward those who succeed. Lyft/Uber are helping somewhat, but you can
point to as many articles [2] showing how over congested cities become because
of them (even with pooling), which take up much more road space than buses.
Let's hope someone else gives this another shot, and we don't shoot them down
if they don't become a unicorn.

[1] [https://www.amazon.com/Blitzscaling-Lightning-Fast-
Building-...](https://www.amazon.com/Blitzscaling-Lightning-Fast-Building-
Massively-Companies/dp/1524761419) [2]
[https://www.chicagotribune.com/bluesky/technology/ct-uber-
ly...](https://www.chicagotribune.com/bluesky/technology/ct-uber-lyft-
congestion-20180225-story.html)

~~~
save_ferris
We're beginning to feel the crunch of car culture in the US, and not everyone
is excited at the prospect of footing the bill to overhaul infrastructure and
transportation systems at the public level.

> In a capitalist country, the markets will reward those who succeed.

This may be true, but markets will favor a solution that involves maintaining
control of the system in order to generate profit.

If we want our transportation system to rival that of Europe's, it won't be
done through market competition for transportation services/technology. Why?
Because services like ridesharing don't incentivize the development of solid
public-use transportation infrastructure. They represent the next revolution
of US car culture, which isn't going to benefit as many people directly once
cars become unaffordable for too many Americans, a trend that is already being
observed[0].

Once this happens, we're going to rely on cars more than ever because we won't
have a viable alternative. I'm not sure how comfortable I am with that idea.

[0]: [http://fortune.com/2017/06/28/car-buy-
price/](http://fortune.com/2017/06/28/car-buy-price/)

~~~
jeffbax
Not true. The best train systems in the world are private businesses. The
problem is having to compete with the government. The NYC subway used to be
two private systems and the government put them out of business and now it's
death by politics

A business focused on transit could otherwise profit and maintain for less
cost than government fails to do.

------
jelling
PSA: Via Pass is a great alternative in NYC and works with commuter benefits
too

------
pastor_elm
great name. Wonder how much they plan to sell it for.

------
thrownaway954
Probably because there is absolutely NOTHING on their homepage or about page
that describes what their service is in a simple manner. Their tag is "Mass
Transit Reinvented"... great!!! How exactly are you doing that in layman's
terms.

------
Tiktaalik
Pls stop trying to re-invent public transit.

~~~
NeonVice
Please, keep trying to re-invent public transit if you can come up with
something better.

