
Confessions of a Watch Geek - MrJagil
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/20/confessions-of-a-watch-geek
======
ansgri
_If you want a watch that looks like a Russian oligarch just curled up around
your wrist and died, you might be interested in the latest model of Rolex’s
Sky-Dweller._

Beautifully written.

~~~
exodust
Very smooth writing, like a luxury watch.

I can't believe I've now opened a few tabs of watch manufacturers, looking at
their goodies. Haven't worn a watch in years, but curious to see if any
designs take my fancy.

I'm not a fan of classic, I'd prefer something sci-fi, dark, modern, hi-tech,
unexpectedly cool with a comically over-the-top product video...
[https://youtu.be/R5aj53a1wQE](https://youtu.be/R5aj53a1wQE)

~~~
ansgri
Thanks for the link, I think it's a step in the right direction. I've stopped
wearing Pebble Steel because it's too ugly, though the functionality is
perfect: you can see what's happening with your phone to decide whether you
want to take it out of the bag to respond to a call or a message.

What would be perfect, is a classic timepiece design with really high-contrast
and high-resolution display as a watch face, which would display something
only in case of incoming notification. I.e. a smart watch should have a mode
where it looks totally "dumb" and classy.

------
tsunamifury
Watches have become a bit like horses or combustion cars might become in a few
years -- items that have lost most of their practical value attached to
industries that need to focus on higher and higher prices in order to inflate
their veblen good status.

I enjoy watches, especially mechanical ones, and a bit of the marketing and
story behind them, but even as a upper income individual, I find their prices
to be completely unabsorbable.

Rolexes and Omegas start at 8000 and their second hand market has become just
as artificially inflated. An Audemars steel watch starts at 13k! These are
impractical prices for all but the very wealthy and betray the working class
value that their origin stories rely on.

But what I find really fascinating is the Chinese replica market, which now
can make nearly identical watches at almost 1/100 the cost. Does the fact that
you can own a completely identical Rolex for just 500 dollars not call into
question the swiss market veblen good strategy?

I predict a significant crash in sales forcing some of the brands out of
business and maybe inspiring a few to make a real middle class watch. But it's
a powerful lesson that China can now manufacture even the most "hallowed"
quality to practically the same degree.

~~~
falcolas
For better or worse the cost of skilled human labor, particularly someone
trained as a watchmaker, is damned expensive. Supply and demand.

Can you get a similar, and perhaps even better constructed (machines are,
after all, more precise than humans) watch from China? Sure. Is it the same
watch? No.

These watches are luxury items - a status symbol. They are the Rolls Royce of
watches: built by hand, damned expensive, and worth every penny to those who
buy them.

Of course, if you prefer the watch from China, then more power to you. I
prefer my Dodge car over a Rolls Royce as well; I don't need or want a symbol,
just a good car.

~~~
md_
> Can you get a similar, and perhaps even better constructed (machines are,
> after all, more precise than humans) watch from China? Sure. Is it the same
> watch? No.

As far as I can tell, the manual labor is roughly the same in both cases.
Chinese mechanical movements are not assembled entirely by machines--in fact,
in many cases the machining may be quite similar. (Many of the popular Seagull
calibers are basically clones of ETA or Miyota designs, and I would guess use
the same manufacturing process.)

The main price difference is (obviously) some combination of a) quality
control and tolerances (do you ship a marginal unit or do you throw it out?),
b) conditions from the factory (do you adjust the movement to n positions
before shipping it, or just ship it?), and c) brand, as you note.

(a) and (b) have real economic costs. How much of a watch's cost comes down to
those versus (c) is hard to say.

I have an unbranded Rolex "homage" from China with a Seagull clone of an ETA
2824. The case is a bit rough around the edges--quite noticeably if you look--
and the timekeeping is (from the factory) about +6s/day. (I don't have a
timegrapher, so I can't tell you the positional variation.)

So, definitely not a Rolex. But for about 3% the price I'm not complaining. ;)

Edit: To add to this point, I am reminded of the similarity between ETA's
different grades of movements (which are sold at different price points
depending on precision/adjustment/quality) and the practice of computer chip
makers to do similar (i.e. to sell CPUs at a lower clockspeed if they don't
pass QC at the higher speed).

This isn't _exactly_ what ETA does; some of the grades use different material
for the hairsprings. But Standard and Elabore are apparently the same material
just adjusted to different tolerances, which sounds awfully similar.

~~~
neaden
Are there any Chinese brands that aren't replicas? Just selling their own
designs I mean for a cheaper hand crafted watch?

~~~
md_
Yes, certainly!

I was highly tempted by the Seagull "1963", which is a replica of a model made
for the Chinese air force in 1963 (powered by a Seagull ST19 movement,
supposedly a clone of a Swiss Venus column-wheel chrono movement!).

But there are quite a number of other Seagull and similar around--some made
for the Chinese domestic market, and a (seemingly increasing) number made for
export inspired by various classic designs.

------
gloves
I'm not a watch geek, but I do love them.

The thing I love the most is they are quite unique in the sense they can be
passed through the generations and become more than an object.

The watch my grandfather gave to me before he passed away is, and will always
be one of my most prized material possessions, which I also hope to pass down
to my children one day too.

It's why a fitbit, apple watch or the like will never do for me.

~~~
travanx
I still remember getting my first paycheck after graduating and buying a
Breitling 15 years ago because I liked the logo. And got a cheaper Rolex when
I started my first company.

We were watching a TV show where someone gets a Patek as a gift and told my
significant other that's a really expensive watch. She had no idea. Then I
went onto explain how cool different mechanical watches are because you can
hear the different movements tick. She didn't think so.

I wore a fitbit for the last week.

~~~
rocqua
This was a sad story :(

~~~
gloves
This is a sad story! Don't give up on the dream! Enjoy it because you enjoy
it!

------
rhaps0dy
> receipt for $4,137.25 [...] by my own standards I had just thrown away a
> small chunk, roughly 4.3 writing days, of my independence

Wow, this person earns a lot by writing o.O

~~~
CM30
No kidding. That's a few months (or more) worth of wages for a typical
journalist, especially in more competitive industries.

The author seems to be a novelist though, so perhaps that money comes from the
royalties on their books or something.

~~~
md_
0_o

Gary Shteyngart is a quite famous novelist. So, yes. ;)

------
ericcholis
The reddit/r/watches community is pretty active with a wide range of watches
(automatic and fashion). Good resources to find quality watches and avoid
marketing hype.

I admit, I love the smooth movement of the second hand on an automatic watch.
My sister-in-law got me my first automatic and I thought it was
broken....until I put it on.

They are tiny feats of precision engineering, even the cheap ones. I'm partial
to a Seiko Men's SNK807 Seiko 5.

~~~
hanklazard
Agreed on Reddit as a good resource for watches. For opportunities to
purchase, I'd recommend /r/watchexchange ... I've spent way more money there
than I'd like to admit!

------
boyce
I love watches in the same way I love classic British sports cars.

I love the designs and the decisions behind them, the stories of the designers
and manufacturers, reading about how to dismantle and maintain them. If
someone has an interesting one I am asking them all about it, appreciating it
as a mechanical object and as an aesthetic piece. I would never ever own one -
there's too many things in pieces in my house and garage already.

------
Philomath
Nice article! I really enjoyed the smooth writing style of the author. He
really made me engage with the story. To be honest, I also love watches but I
find myself not using it when I wear it, making it practically useless. It
might be because I'm always working with my laptop and thus I can watch the
time at the screen.

------
loydb
I love that Nomos was featured heavily. I don't own one yet, but they are for
sure my favorite manufacturer.

~~~
gingerbread-man
You might like Habring2 as well. The founder invented a novel mechanism now
used in split-second chronographs. Their watches are mechanically amazing, and
(relatively) cheap, because they focus more on mechanical refinement than
aesthetic perfection of the internals.

~~~
blacksmith_tb
Habring2 are likable, but not what I'd call 'relatively' cheap, as none of
their models are less than $4000 USD. For people who are interested in
modestly-priced mechanical watches, I would suggest Seiko, especially some of
their models intended for the Japanese Domestic Market, many of which are less
than $500 USD. They have very good quality throughout, though the aesthetics
vary (I like some of their divers quite a bit).

~~~
gingerbread-man
I agree 100% on Seiko. (For what it's worth, I wear a quartz seiko my parents
gave me as a high school graduation gift.) Habring2's "relative" affordability
is relative to other manufacturers of similar mechanical note, like Lange or
Patek.

------
bbarn
Excellent article. I've always loved watches, but not as much as tech. I've
got several beautiful watches, and one of them I'll wear at my wedding
probably. Every other day of my life it's currently the Garmin Vivoactiv HR.

------
professorumbra
I'm a big fan of mechanical watches, but I think the market nowadays is too
much about limited editions and unnecessary flamboyance. How many different
"limited" Omegan Moon Watches are there, for example?

~~~
huhtenberg
The mid-to-high-end watch market (in the $1K-50K range) is going through a
_major_ crisis right now.

For past several years they've been aggressively raising prices due to steady
Chinese demand, which now has been all but extinguished by a combination of
several factors. So the watchmakers are now is a pickle of situation - watches
are massively over-priced, their "normal" customers are well aware of that,
but they can't lower prices without damaging their "lux" image and upsetting
those who bought at a current price level. Some try and introduce cheapened
models (like steel Pateks), but it doesn't seem to be working well for them.
Fun times.

[http://wornandwound.com/bloomberg-reports-swiss-watch-
export...](http://wornandwound.com/bloomberg-reports-swiss-watch-exports-
poised-worst-year-since-1984/)

~~~
professorumbra
Interesting. It seems that the luxury image is more a burden than an advantage
to many manufacturers. But the brand ownership is concentrated and the owners
might not care about those kind of difficulties.

I'm more of a fan of utilitarian watches anyways. Sinn for example makes very
affordable tool watches that are also technologically on par with many luxury
brands.

~~~
eps
You say Sinn, I say Damasko :)

[http://www.damasko-watches.com/](http://www.damasko-watches.com/)

Very impressive line-up of in-house technologies for watches that retail for a
couple of grand or less.

~~~
professorumbra
Yeah, Damasko is another good example. Their metallurgy tech is really
impressive.

------
icantdrive55
I collect, and repair watches. I usually like stories about watches, and the
people who cherish them, but not today. I'm just in a weird mood? This popped
out, and made me cringe:

"Mechanical watches are far less accurate than quartz watches, but often far
more expensive, because their bearings are more intricate. All contemporary
Rolex watches, for example, are mechanical."

1\. They are not more expensive because of the synthetic rubies that are
called jewels. They are more expensive because of the name, and marketing.

2\. I've noticed a lot of guys under 35 just arn't into mechanical watches. I
do get it. And women--just arn't into watches at all. I don't know why, but
sometimes I think it's because we die so early.

3\. As it stands now, a guy could go out and spend 10 grand on a watch. The
second it goes out of warranty, and needs a service, or a part; it has to go
back to the factory, and is repaired at factory prices. Prices like $800 for a
mainspring, and service.

4\. See the watch comapnies decided to not sell parts to Watch Repair
people(like myself), or even a customer.

5\. It's like buying a vechicle, and when it breaks down; you need to take it
to the dealership.

6\. They claim it's for quality assurance, but it's a money grab. In my
American eyes it violates The Sherman Anti-trust Act. Yes--a federal
lawyer/Investigator agreed, but didn't feel it wasn't worth doing much about.
She said someting like, 'It's a wealthy person's problem, and not on my todo
list." All the while, those politicians are wearing Rolexes?

7\. The bigger watch houses have consolidated. Swatch owns many of the high
end watches you see out there. Rolex is separate. I believe Rolex even own the
company that provides the oil to those fancy watches. It's called Moebius oil.
And they want it used on all their watches.

8\. If you get into watches that's fine. It can be addicting. Would I ever buy
a new watch I could not work on, nor buy parts for--hell no!

9\. If the Watch Industry reads this, your customer base has changed. Lower
your prices, and enough to with the games. Customers are tired of the maximum
20% discount you require your boutiques to stick to. They are tired of being
told a grey market watch bought at Costco is not really a Rolex, and you won't
even honor the warranty. They are not the uninformed Dongle heads of the past.
Don't insult their intelligence--they are all carring around a smart phone
that tells the time.

10\. My parting words are this. I still love my old watches. I hope more young
people get into the industry and Shake things up. There something very
gratifying about resurrecting an old watch found on eBay. I went from
collecting to repairing, and there's definetly a shift of attitude when you
know what's under the hood. My everyday watch is a watch I found in a thrift
store. Years ago, the lady behind the counrt said the old Timex is $2.00. I
took it home and it set on my desk for 5 years. One night I noticed a little
fish on the crown. I thought, why would Times brand the crown? I opened it up,
and it was a IWC 853. All the markings on the dial were gone. I served it, and
wear it proudly. People think it's a cheap watch, and I don't care. I can wear
it to the worst parts of the city, and never worry about theft. I look at that
chalky dial, and it just makes me feel good. Knowing how to repair it feels
better. Sorry about the lenght of this post--depressed, or something?

~~~
ubermonkey
Speaking as a long-term collector of mechanicals, I dunno how true a lot of
this is for the broad market.

First, an ENORMOUS chunk of the middle-high end are watches with ETA (or other
well-understood mass market) movements in them, and not just models from the
Swatch Group[1]. Any reasonable-sized city has a watchmaker who can repair one
of those. Sure, if you bought a super-fancy watch festooned with complications
for tens of thousands of dollars, you probably need to go to a dealer who may
ship it back to Switzerland, but that's the exception.

Second, even the in-house movements used by some makes (Rolex especially) are
well-understood by non-dealer/non-manufacturer watchmakers. The mainspring on
my 1977 Rolex broke a couple years ago; a local fellow I trust replaced it for
$200, and that included a thorough cleaning.

[1]: The Swatch Group owns ETA, who make movements, but also LOTS of watch
brands you know, like Omega, Breguet, Blancpain, Longines, Hamilton, Tissot,
and others. My "Bond" Seamaster has an ETA movement in it, for example.

The tl;dr is that for most watches, you don't really need "factory" parts for
repair.

