
Police sent warrant to Facebook for information on Philando Castile’s girlfriend - vezycash
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20170623/06000037650/cops-sent-warrant-to-facebook-to-dig-up-dirt-woman-whose-boyfriend-they-had-just-killed.shtml
======
SwellJoe
There are so many things I can't even believe about this case.

One of them is how many people are willing to believe absurd theories in order
to justify this murder.

Castile was a law-abiding citizen, with a job, a girlfriend, people who cared
about him, and no criminal record. Why would _anyone_ believe he would reach
for a gun with an officer pointing a gun at his chest? Why is that even a
claim that can be taken seriously?

So many people say, "We can't know what happened in the car." Unless you
believe a rational, by all accounts kind-hearted, adult with no history of
violence or crime would suddenly decide to have a shootout with cops with a
little girl in the car, we _can_ know what happened in the car.

What must you think of black men to believe a story that is so absurd on the
face of it? I've heard the argument that it was the gun that made it possible
for people to believe the officer's version of events. But, would anyone
believe this story if it had been a white man in his 30s in the same
situation?

And, how horrifying must it be to wake up each day, as a black man in America,
knowing that a jury of Castile's peers believes that at any moment any black
man could snap and go on a murderous rampage? That's the only thing I can come
up with that makes any of this work; that white America still believes black
men are inherently dangerous.

I'm horrified by every police execution of an innocent person, and one
shouldn't have to be a perfect citizen to not be subject to being killed by
police. But, this one is the most stark example I can think of where there is
no excusing it, and no way to assume the officer had legitimate reason to be
afraid (aside from Tamir Rice, a 12 year old with a BB gun, who was given mere
seconds from the time of arrival of police on the scene before he was gunned
down...by an officer who also faced no consequences).

You have to believe black people are inherently dangerous to believe the
police officer's story on this. And, a jury did just that.

~~~
votepaunchy
It was a jury of the officer's peers since Castile is dead and it was the
officer on trial. And with demographics being what they are and since the
defense is permitted to evaluate and whittle down the jury pool ...

> There were just two black people on the jury of Castile’s supposed peers.
> Juror One was a young African American man who “works as a shift manager at
> Wendy’s and personal care attendant for his mom.” He expressed some lack of
> faith in the criminal justice system, reportedly expressing a belief that
> “the wealthy and powerful could get off in the legal system because they
> could hire better attorneys.” Juror 8 was an 18-year-old Ethiopian American
> who has lived in the U.S. since age 10. The Tribune notes that “the defense
> tried to strike her due to unfamiliarity with the U.S. legal system, but the
> judge denied the attempt.”

> The rest of those selected for the jury were overwhelmingly middle-aged
> white Minnesotans, many of whom expressly stated support for police or a
> belief in the infallibility of the criminal justice system.

[http://www.salon.com/2017/06/23/the-philando-castile-jury-
wa...](http://www.salon.com/2017/06/23/the-philando-castile-jury-was-stacked-
with-pro-gun-pro-cop-middle-aged-white-people_partner/)

~~~
SwellJoe
You're right, and I shouldn't have phrased it that way. Even with my awareness
of my own racism, I used language that put Castile on trial.

Anyway, I'm heartbroken and deeply disappointed in America right now. I'm most
disappointed in every white American who will defend this officer, and all the
others like him, based on a deep-seated belief that black people are always
criminals and never to be trusted.

------
zer00eyz
This is revolting.

Do the police just get to go to a judge and literaly say "blah blah blah we
want a warrant" and the judge goes "OK"? Because it sure does feel like it
sometimes.

In this case FB seems to have done right by its users (or tried to). However
is that always going to be the case? Are they always going to be willing, are
they always going to find their rebuttal in the hands of someone who is
friendly to their argument?

~~~
zkms
It helps if you throw around phrases like "based on my training and
experience" but yes, there's plenty of judges who act like literal rubber
stamps when it comes to warrants. This is why "due process" doesn't
necessarily mean too much, because a lot of the time it's just a case of the
law-enforcement agent finding the right judge to show the warrant application
to.

~~~
yorwba
These systems all really need some kind of feedback loop. E.g. when a judge
approves a warrant that is later found to be unjustified, they have to take
responsibility. Likewise for not approving a justified warrant, otherwise you
might get chilling effects. If both kinds of feedback are present, it should
help the judge stay calibrated to an acceptable interpretation of "justified".

~~~
votepaunchy
> Fruit of the poisonous tree is a legal metaphor in the United States used to
> describe evidence that is obtained illegally.[1] The logic of the
> terminology is that if the source (the "tree") of the evidence or evidence
> itself is tainted, then anything gained (the "fruit") from it is tainted as
> well.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree)

------
mnm1
I hope it's apparent to more people now how little difference there is between
police in America and the gangs they allegedly "protect" us from. Both are
unchecked forces doing whatever they want, killing whomever they want for
whatever convoluted reason they want. The main differences are that police get
to live to potentially kill another day and their gang territory is the entire
country. But it's not just the cops. The inhumane jury members led by an
inhumane supreme court decision clearly shows that this is what the system is
created for. To allow police to get away with murder and anything else. This
Facebook warrant is a clear example that there was never any intention of
justice in this case, that police only care to serve and protect themselves,
and that no one is safe from police in America. No one.

------
jt2190
> The only upside... is Facebook refused to hand over the information

------
pokle
Why is this on Hacker News?

~~~
s_kilk
Because it highlights the sometimes disturbing intersection between technology
and the real world

~~~
s_kilk
And a counter question: why do techies pretend they have no stake in the civil
society they live in?

------
azinman2
“Yanez was acquitted and Philando Castile is still dead -- a man who did
nothing more than try to comply with an officer's orders.”

That’s a bold claim. If we watch the video, we can see the officer repeatedly
saying “stay away from the gun.” It’s not clear what’s happening, but I can at
least say I don’t know for sure what did in this tragic case.

~~~
michaelmrose
Seems to be pretty clear that the officer was paranoid and shot him without
any real reason other than in the officers imagination.

~~~
zkms
Yanez fucked up, hard. He was clearly on edge and nervous from the start, put
himself in a bad position, and the verbal commands he gave were utterly
_atrocious_.

He asked for proof of insurance and ID, and then once Mr. Castile informed him
of his weapons permit, Yanez said "don’t pull it out". However, to someone who
_isn 't_ intending on pulling out his concealed-carry weapon, "don't pull it
out" _does not_ adequately and unambiguously signal "stop moving". Mr. Castile
was obeying the command to show his ID and also had acknowledged the order not
to pull out his gun. Yanez did not even entertain the possibility that Castile
might not be reaching for a gun -- and the phraseology Yanez used is
indicative of that. Had Yanez wanted Castile to stop moving altogether, he
should have issued an unambiguous command _to that effect_ ; such as "stop
moving" or "hands on the dashboard" or "put your hands out the window now".

Yanez got himself all worked up and panicked before even making contact with
the people in the car, issued verbal commands that were obeyed to the letter,
shot up a compliant person, and then gave weird excuses about the smell of
marijuana during questioning. Yes, someone in Castile's position _could have_
stopped moving altogether when hearing "don't pull it out", but it really
shouldn't be up to people stopped by police to try to reverse-engineer an
officer's intentions and de-escalate the situation to avoid being shot by a
nervous policeman. Obeying commands should be sufficient to not get shot up.

~~~
azinman2
When you have a cop repeatedly yelling at you to stop pulling out a gun, it’s
pretty clear the situation is getting intense. After the second time, you’d
figure whatever you’re doing is wrong and at that point you’d stop...
especially with all the police shootings as a black man.

Regardless this is all us trying to put ourselves in that situation when none
of us were in it, the videos don’t conclusively show what he was doing, and
the officer wasn’t worked up / nervous from the start – he started off very
calm.

We can only speculate on the situation, without living it and fully seeing it
how can we judge one way or the other? Clearly there’s a larger problem with
so many black people in prison and killed by cops in this conntey, but to do
justice you have to look at every situation individually.

