
Listen to AOL’s CEO Fire Employee in Conference Call With 1,000 people - wikiburner
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/08/11/audio_recording_aol_ceo_fires_employee_during_conference_call.html
======
ja27
I think anyone that survived the dotcom boom and crash has stories like this.
Pud's F-ed Company was full of them.

We had the meeting where only half the company was invited and the half that
wasn't invited was let go. We had the VP that found out he was let go when his
card key stopped working in the middle of the day. We had the employee lock
himself in the office and refuse to leave. We had the contractor that was "let
go" that laughed and just kept showing up for work. My boss that "let him go"
was fired 3 weeks later. We had the guys that were let go but slipped through
the cracks and nobody told them until HR sent them a packet. I saw the CEO fly
into town just to fire my boss but she panicked and left before he got to the
office and refused to answer her phones. Most of us kept all of our stuff
packed in cardboard boxes, ready to walk out the door or change offices
whenever people left. One friend kept a wall of ex-employee nameplates in his
cube. The day I quit, I handed him my nameplate on my way to meet with my boss
to resign, so everyone else knew by the time I walked out of his office.

The winners were two I didn't get to see. In some customer crisis, we hired a
new guy with some special expertise on a platform and put him on a plane
somewhere with a VP / Director of Development. They start talking on the plane
and by the end of the flight, the VP realized he was so full of crap that he
fired him, told him to not even leave the airport and go rebook his return
flight back home.

The same VP hired another new guy but on his first day he went to lunch with
other developers and somewhat joked about how he realized that it isn't what
you do but what they think you do that gets you ahead in this business. He was
fired 30 minutes after lunch.

~~~
kamaal
>>VP realized he was so full of crap that he fired him

That's strange, because VP's are themselves full of crap. Its exceedingly rare
that you can find a good VP.

Most VP's haven't done anything 'real' in years. And generally never have
context on what they are doing, why they are doing, or even why its necessary.
Two to three difficult questions in a row and they many not even be able to
explain why they or their title should even exist.

Most VP's get hired through their network and survive by means of their
network. The middle to senior level management is generally the most
hopelessly inefficient part of the whole hierarchy chain, while being the
biggest money sink in terms of the compensation and benefits.

~~~
brg
This is completely opposite of my experience in the industry.

Stephen Sinofsky is famous for sending people bug reports with the line of
code that was causing the windows bug. My presentations to Harry Shum were the
highlights of my time in Bing, as he was both interested and insightful. My
conversation with Satya Nadella about incentives and alignment of the OSD
organization taught me a lot about how the businesses operated.

I've met and worked with vice presidents in Microsoft, Google, and Facebook
and every time I been impressed with their levels of interest, insight, and
passion for the product.

There may have been a time with being a vice-president was a parking title and
reward for a lifetime of work, but that time has passed.

~~~
kamaal
I never said every single VP ever was like that. But exceptions only prove the
rule.

>>but that time has passed

Hardly!!!!. You have worked at nearly every outlier company, there is. And you
think culture you've seen there is the norm.

If there is any famous company with awesome executives, you will hear about
them. You will never hear about those that crash and burn because of bad
executives. Which are far more common than the ones that win.

~~~
F_J_H
[http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exception_that_proves_the_rul...](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exception_that_proves_the_rule)

------
rdtsc
"We spent 100s of millions of dollars the board is committed, I am committed"

Choo-choo, everyone jump on the fail train. No really, this is what is wrong
with big companies. They pick a failed direction and they can't stop. It is a
giant rusty ship heading to its grave, the captain waving his big dick around
"Doesn't matter what everyone says, this will be successful!"

I think most people there know it is failure that is why the explicit warning
not to joke about it (there is probably enough of that to warrant that
comment). Critics who don't believe in the failed cause are pushed out as non-
team players. It leaves the desperate and the brainwashed. ... Yes, patch will
be the next Facebook if you just work an extra night no matter if your
daughter fell of the stairs and broke her leg.

~~~
anthonyb
Well, this is the first I've heard of Patch, so I went and had a look at
[http://www.patch.com/](http://www.patch.com/)

...

Er, is this supposed to be a news site? There's not a lot of actual news, but
I can go and see what's happening at "Propwash Junction". Which isn't actually
a real place but a Disney ad. Real news is at least two clicks deep.

Doomed!

~~~
mh-
is it purposely avoiding major cities? (and all the neighborhoods in or near
them?)

I can't find any coverage in SF. And I checked for LA, Boston, Austin, NY
(each borough)...

~~~
gyardley
Yes, I think Patch's 'point' was local news for smaller communities - if I'm
remembering right, with a focus on affluent areas that could support ad sales.

------
mcot2
I used to work for a high level executive that would throw around the words
"you're fired" as a joke sometimes during all hands meetings. The fact is,
using those words on someone in public (joke or not) is embarrsing and
cringeworthy for all.

I've also had the "get on board or leave" speech thrown at me. More times then
not, those words are a sign to run away as fast as possible.

This guy is a joke and his product is a joke.

~~~
goingtogetit
> I've also had the "get on board or leave" speech thrown at me.

I'm going to get this speech in about 48 hours (flying to HQ at the moment).
What's your advice?

~~~
hef19898
As hard as it is, leaving in the mid-term may be the best option. i can only
talk for myself, but when my supperior doesn't think I'm on board I can't go
"on board" or fake it realistacally. Well, I can long enough to find something
better.

For the meeting itself, not so easy.

Part one: Come up with a plan for the meeting. Best if you know what "on
board" means and come up with some believable actions or things you can do in
the future showing you ARE. Find some explanations why you were not in the
past, even if it means to only find expalnations why your boss thinks you're
not "on board". Maybe you even know what kind of agenda your boss has for
himself, this adds a lot of usefull context to the points mentioned above.

Part two: Use the time you bought yourself to find something better elsewhere.
There are people that can addopt enough and get "on board" (whatever that
really means), but I'm none of those.

In cases like this, it's all about how a situation is percieved and not how it
really is.

Hope it helped a little bit. And even if it's not easy, don't worry or even
panic, stay calm and polite. Be prepared, but don't argue any points before
they are brought up by someone else.

Disclaimer: Had one meeting like that myself, came up with a defense a couple
of weeks later, left 4 months later. Teached me to be prepared for meetings
like this.

------
fsck--off
A quote from the Business Insider article linked to in this thread:

    
    
      This source tells us that Lenz always took photos at Patch 
      all-hands meetings. He would later post them to Patch's     
      internal news site.
    

There isn't enough background to understand why this happened. AOL may have a
clause in their employee contracts that makes picture taking at certain
meetings a "firing offense". The source says that Lenz "always took photos",
but it's possible that Lenz might have been warned not to take any more photos
at meetings. Lenz's silence about the matter is also ambiguous.

Nevertheless it is odd that an employee was fired for taking pictures of a
meeting when the audio was leaked to the media.

~~~
wikiburner
His silence could easily have something to do with a non-disparagement clause
in his severance. I'm sure they are giving him a decent one (assuming this
whole situation can be taken at face value) in order to mitigate this wave of
bad press.

------
temphn
Sounds bad. But almost certainly was not simply a spur of the moment decision,
but rather that Lenz was on the list of people to be fired later in the day
and had done things that Armstrong knew about (like leaking Patch
information). Still bad to do it like that on a call where people are getting
fired for real, but this gives some context.

[http://www.businessinsider.com/aol-ceo-tim-armstrong-
appeare...](http://www.businessinsider.com/aol-ceo-tim-armstrong-appeared-to-
fire-this-man-in-front-of-1000-coworkers-2013-8)

    
    
      A few minutes later, Armstrong complained about leaks to 
      the media. He said the leaks were making Patch seem like 
      "loser-ville" in the press. He said, "That's why Abel was 
      fired." "We can't have people that are in the locker room 
      giving the game plan away."

~~~
rgbrenner
From the recording in the article (@ 1:15)

"I also want to clear up the fact that leaking information or anything around
Patch isn't going to bother me. Doesn't bother me. I'm not changing
direction."

So what you're saying is, Armstrong also gives inconsistent directions to his
employees?

~~~
kolinko
"Won't bother me", meaning "won't stop me". It still hurts the team/the
project and is considered an offence.

~~~
rgbrenner
That's certainly one way of interpreting his statement, and I agree with you
that it's an offense to the team..

but.. I don't think it exactly helps Armstrong if instead of giving
inconsistent direction.. he instead gives unclear and ambiguous directions.
He's the CEO.. he should be able to communicate consistently and clearly.

------
ForrestN
I would leave that company immediately if I worked there. This isn't a TV
show. You don't fire people that coldly and abruptly regardless of the
circumstances, especially not in public.

~~~
rdtsc
> This isn't a TV show.

rdtsc's law of failing large companies: "a large enough failing company, with
a power crazy CEO is indistinguishable from a TV show"

~~~
charlieflowers
Well done! And especially true in this age of reality TV. Let me add my own
bastardized quote: "We're a race so primitive that we still think reality TV
is a pretty neat idea."

------
tvladeck
Off topic, but if Armstrong is serious about wanting people to leave the
company if they're not committed, why not offer buyouts? That would remove one
reason why people may decide to stay even if they don't believe in the
company.

I know Zappo's offers new trainees a cash bonus if they decide to /not/ join
the company after completing the training program. That way Zappo's can be
more sure that their new hires are not /just/ financially motivated but also
are excited about the company itself.

Buyouts are commonly used during downsizing, but any thoughts as to why this
isn't more widespread - i.e., used during 'normal' times as well? You could
imagine companies offering a cash bonus (or health insurance for a certain #
of months, or something) to anyone that quit but didn't have another job lined
up.

That, presumably, would have the effect of empowering people to leave their
job. So people who were not aligned with the company itself or otherwise
dissatisfied could leave, improving the culture of the company as well.

On a more meta level, pleas like Armstrong's, to "leave if you're not
committed" reminds me of the quote from North Dallas Forty [0] (A movie about
professional sports): "Every time I say it's business, you say it's a game.
Every time I say it's a game, you say it's a business." Leaders of businesses
can try to pull the same thing; they alternate between appealing to your sense
of mission, and then make decisions under a different logic.

[0]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dallas_Forty](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dallas_Forty)

~~~
rdtsc
> they alternate between appealing to your sense of mission, and then make
> decisions under a different logic.

When things go sour they also falsely blame a scapegoated 3rd party. "We would
give you bonuses and severance packages but those pesky lawyers/accountants
can't let us do it", as if those entities are forces of nature outside of
CEO's or board's control.

------
juanbyrge
What an awkward time to take photos.

My company was interviewing a candidate once. He was spectacular during the
interview, but then he stared taking pictures of our office and our employees,
which made us all uncomfortable, and that's the only reason we did not offer
him a job.

What may seem like normal behavior to one person may be offensive or intrusive
to someone else.

~~~
gojomo
Except: it came right after Armstrong talking about not being bothered by
"leaking information". And that according to Business Insider, this same
employee "always" took photos during meetings/conference-calls, for internal
publishing.

It's possible that in the stressful moment, with his mind on the "you're with
the plan or should leave" theme, Armstrong misread or overreacted to the
photo-taking. (Perhaps even, the "you're fired" was a reaction to a momentary
facial expression from the photographer, in reaction to the first "put that
camera down" command.)

Or maybe there's a history, and Armstrong already viewed the employee as
insufficiently serious about Patch. Either way, an odd occurrence.

------
sbarre
I wonder if this was a publicity stunt to get people to go check out
patch.com?

I'm only half-kidding.. I had never heard of it before, and I went to look at
it after reading the article. Anyone else?

I'm not an American so I'm not in the target market, but a lot of these kinds
of sites live and die by early adopters and tech influencers who start using
them and advocate to their networks.

~~~
rdtsc
Crossed my mind. I sure went and checked it out. I've used it once by accident
and didn't know it as AOL. But, if anything, this just made it worse. Now it
has a bloodstain on it.

So if it was meant to be a publicity stunt, it sure as hell backfired. But
then again, if they were good at marketing and publicity stunts, they probably
wouldn't be firing people on the spot or extolling how great it is for
employees to sacrifice their nights and weekends for the cause even after
their children break their legs falling off the stairs.

------
zw123456
It does not matter what the circumstances, to fire someone in any sort of
public setting is a since of profound ineptitude and immaturity. I was
surprised that AoL even still exists, I do not know who this person is, but if
he is in charge of AOL then it is only a matter of time before it is no longer
in existence.

------
dbecker
If Aol is still making most of its revenue by charging monthly fees to people
who have forgotten it exists, I find that more reprehensible than anything on
this call... and I'd be happy to see them go out of business.

~~~
kolinko
I don't know about their profit structure right now, but I think they've been
moving away from this for quite a some time.

It bought Techcrunch, among other things.

~~~
drill_sarge
I can't wrap my head around how you can still have an aol dial-up subscription
in 2013.

~~~
grkvlt
Except AOL provide high-speed broadband subscriptions now, just like all other
ISPs...

~~~
drill_sarge
I can't find anything about offering broadband directly from aol here:

[http://get.aol.com/plans/index.php?regtype=client&offergrp=w...](http://get.aol.com/plans/index.php?regtype=client&offergrp=webreg)

Only some crappy "security" software for broadband users (I wouldn't call
their subscription model for broadband users scam buts it is a bit shady to
take 12 bucks a month for some discount coupons and "$750 Extended Computer
Protection").

they seem to offer only 56k dial-up service.

?

~~~
mikeash
"AOL provides broadband offers through partnership with Digital Landing, owned
and operated by Acceller, Inc."

[http://broadband.aol.com/broadband/getting-
broadband.adp](http://broadband.aol.com/broadband/getting-broadband.adp)

------
cyanbane
I have on occasion used Patch (I live about 30 miles outside a metro area on
the border of suburb vs farming land). I don't read the site, but instead read
a twitter feed of the local corespondent. She happens to be fairly good at
filtering good community news. I'll be keeping her in my twitter stream
(assuming she isn't let go) but I will think about that recording every time I
start to click a link to patch.com from her feed or anywhere. I will probably
just query the main terms from her tweets in a Google news search from here on
out if I want to know more. Somethings should be handled privately even when
the opportunity may be presented publicly. There is no value to any point that
was presented by firing someone in that manner.

------
pavanred
To me this is just arrogance and probably even irresponsible. If I employed
someone in my company and if I could fire the person at a moments notice, then
I believe the employee and his skills were not leveraged to the benefit of the
company in the first place. I agree company's shouldn't create exclusive
dependencies with employees but if nothing is affected by letting an employee
go suddenly or if the employer didn't have to think twice before doing so,
then the employee probably wasn't needed in the first place. Both the company
and the employee should be invested in each other in terms of skill, effort,
time and compensation. Not to mention that you just burned a bridge that you
didn't have to.

------
computer
I doubt that this call and the exchange that we're shown is all that there's
to it. Having said that, if you're on a conference call and you say such a
thing without context, you can expect it to get interpreted in ways it might
not have been meant.

~~~
ivanbrussik
I jumped into another thread and said this already - the guy that was fired
was responsible for a poor UX that was hated amongst all and ended up failing.

------
kumarski
I'm curious.

For those of you who have lead and managed teams of 100 or more, would you
ever resort to firing someone spontaneously in front of their peers?

~~~
sbarre
Never, not even in front of a team of 10, or 5..

If you have to let someone go, you do it in private.

~~~
ihsw
How about if you're a psychotic asshole looking to spread terror in order to
quell opposition? Random violence is a staple of terrorist tactics, and random
firings is certainly comparable.

~~~
kbatten
Someone like that needs help, not a firing in front of everyone on the planet.

~~~
joseph_cooney
I think the CEO is the random asshole, not the person being fired.

------
joering2
What a dirtbag scum. What can you learn from a leader that loose it because
someone was taking his photos. This CEO made a fool of himself and I can bet
some people wont work with someone like that in the future.

This was not only embarrasing but unprofessional too. What was the reason he
got fired? Real reason?

------
martin-adams
Wait what?! Am I being thick or something? He mentions several times that he
doesn't care about information leaking, then fires someone for taking out a
camera.

~~~
MetaCosm
Yeah, that left my head spinning as well.

~~~
bsg75
Powertrip vs leadership. Spends significant time telling people why they
should leave instead of why they should stay.

Maybe a new term should be invented: "Got patched".

------
beedogs
Gotta love right-to-work, eh?

------
damian2000
Wondering why there was no shouts of derision at the CEO when he said that?
The others at the meeting should have spoken up in my opinion.

------
negamax
I am getting lots of AOL job ads on linkedin for my location and expertise.
Won't be applying there in a hurry

------
bvssatish
\- The tone of "Arrogance" is striking.

\- Ahh "Humility" is such a wise trait.

------
lynchdt
I love the way he only dropped maybe two beats in executing that one.

------
mylorse
Relevant older post from a different source:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6195996](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6195996)

------
icedog
I wonder if TechCrunch will post this story...

------
rip747
really? a site that is centered around local news that doesn't have miami or
fort lauderdale as an available area for florida?

you'd figure the first thing they would do is have all the major markets
covered

------
sciguy77
AOL is still a thing?

------
oh_sigh
:yawn:

Who cares what AOL is doing?

~~~
jmduke
AOL staffs around 5500 employees, posts incomes of around $2.5 billion, and
owns -- amongst other things -- TechCrunch and HuffPo.

If you don't think they're an important company, I suggest you talk to more
people who are outside of the tech industry.

