
Torvalds: SteamOS will "really help" Linux on desktop - WestCoastJustin
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/384934/torvalds-steamos-will-really-help-linux-on-desktop
======
balabaster
The reason Linux hasn't seen widespread adoption isn't just that it doesn't
have the marketing power of Microsoft behind it. It's flaky, it lacks support
for a wide variety of hardware, it requires a level of understanding that the
vast majority of the population just don't have time or willingness to gain,
it lacks obvious usability features in the most recent versions of major
distros.

The general population requires their computer to make their life easier,
Linux just doesn't do that. I've been hacking around with Ubuntu now for the
past month and I'm still not satisfied with it. I have a laundry list of
things that are far from satisfactory that I don't yet have the capability of
fixing myself... and I've been developing software for 20 years. If the
learning curve is this steep for a long time developer, imagine how daunting
it is to the general public. They don't get a computer because they want
something to tinker with and figure out how it works for hundreds of hours a
week, they want a computer to do something for them that will enrich or
simplify their life in some fashion.

Perhaps if some of the more fundamental features were fixed instead of adding
nice to have trinkets, you'd find more people will take it more seriously. I
shouldn't have to go and hack around with complicated and potentially not-yet-
existing files, referencing incomplete or inaccurate blog posts written by the
last guy who tried what you're attempting and got so pissed off with it that
he thought he'd save the next idiot the headache he'd just gone through - only
to omit the most important piece of information that's not to be found
anywhere else on the internet.

That is why Windows has a major market. Because unlike Linux, shit just
works... for the most part.

They say that Linux is free as in "freedom", but honestly, how free are you
when you have to spend all your time tied to the computer just to get shit
working?

I'm trying to love Linux, I really am, I'm on my 4th distro in 2 months and so
far I feel like the only thing I've achieved is getting Stockholm Syndrome.

If Steam can fix this, I say please, please bring it on. Torvalds, I think
you've got the right idea, honest to God I do, and I'm trying to love your
system but it seriously needs some love from developers and usability experts
that understand people.

~~~
gillianseed
Is there anything concrete in terms of 'drivers' and 'flaky', 'more
fundamental features' which you can point to as being a problem for you?

Personally I've been using a bleeding edge distro (Arch Linux) for the past
5-6 years or so and I've only been bitten once by a stability issue with
networking which forced me to downgrade the kernel while it was being fixed
upstream (this would not have bitten me had I not been using a bleeding edge
distro btw).

And I certainly don't have to spend all my time 'tied to the computer to get
shit working', since Arch is bare-bones it certainly took more time to set it
up exactly to my liking, but that's not something I have to spend time on
anymore.

Instead I spend far too much time here on HN :D

~~~
derekp7
Actually, I've got a couple of things that flaked out on me in the last year
or so. This was with Fedora 17, on a Lenovo Thinkpad x230 laptop, and Intel
video. At first I put Ubuntu on it, but it wouldn't reliably survive
suspend/resume, and sometimes X11 would lock up (this is because the chipset
used in this laptop was band new at the time, and driver support was still a
bit flaky). So I put Fedora 17 on it, and got a bit better luck.

However, after a few automatic updates, I started to get really weird sound
issues. When playing videos with VLC, I would get a buzzing sound (like a
broken speaker) for the first minute or so, then it would clear up -- this
only happened sometimes, after a suspend / resume. Reverting to an earlier
kernel fixed it, but also I couldn't duplicate the issue with any other audio
program -- just VLC. Eventually (after a couple months), the various
libraries, software components, and kernel versions stabilized on this
hardware, and now suspend/resume, audio, etc are all flawless. But I know I'm
probably in for some pain next time I upgrade hardware (unless I get last
years model).

Second problem -- I picked up a generic 7.1 USB audio device. The center
channel and subwoofer are reversed. I can't figure out how to re-assign the
audio channels through the driver (I think there is some combination of Alsa
and Pulse config file tweaks, but haven't got them to work yet). Ideally I'd
like to pass some parameters to the kernel module for the sound device to swap
channels. I looked at the source code, saw there was a spot where I can add
the chipset in the "quirks" table, but couldn't find the data structures that
assign audio output to specific channels. I'll probably end up jumping on one
of the kernel dev mailing lists to figure that part out when I get time.
Meanwhile, I just made an adapter to swap the channels (both the center
speaker and sub-woofer come out of the same audio jack on the sound device).

------
Havoc
I'm glad he approves of it. Generally if he doesn't approve of something like
this then it triggers a string of "Torvalds says" articles that do nothing for
_nix. Then someone brings up a RMS angle and then it all devolves into an
artificially created shtstorm which keeps the entire FOSS scene in this
constant paralyzed state.

Personally I think Valve - as great as they are - will step on a pile of RMS
flavored toes. So be it. They bring raw power to the (desktop) _nix world like
never before. _nix hasn 't really moved an inch on the desktop front
anyway...whats the worse that could happen? The risk is acceptable given the
massive potential progress.

I think it'll also provide much needed focus to the _nix world. Sure variety
has its benefit...but at some point it becomes fragmentation not variety. A
central vocal point like valve will go a long way to fixing that.

~~~
unlogic
_nix hasn 't really moved an inch on the desktop front anyway_

What a ridiculous thing to say. Millions of people use *nix operating systems
on their desktop computers every day. This number is significantly higher than
a few years ago. When I hear someone complaining about state of GNU/Linux on
desktops, they usually mean they can't play gamez. Sometimes they add
something about lacking good video drivers (to play gamez).

And by your statement you reduce the whole range of possible computer uses to
gaming. Maybe we shouldn't confuse "linux in entertainment" with "linux on
desktops"? Former is only a subset of the latter.

Don't get me wrong, I like playing, and I adore Valve and their games. But for
many GNU/Linux users giving up their freedoms may not be worth another
brainless AAA title.

~~~
Havoc
>What a ridiculous thing to say. [...] This number is significantly higher
than a few years ago.

Significantly higher yes...off a low base. We're talking 1..2..3...maybe a
(naive)5 percent of progress on total market share over literally decades in
the desktop market. Compare that to the androids absolutely crushing the
entire mobile market in a few short years. So yes in the bigger scheme of
things "nix hasn't really moved an inch on the desktop front".

>And by your statement you reduce the whole range of possible computer uses to
gaming.

You're kidding, right? I focused on gaming, because we are discussing a post
about Valve. The effects will extend to every corner of GUI driven _nix given
that nvidia has already made real world changes based purely on this
announcement. The_ nix world can fight another 10 years of a losing war
against an unmotivated nvidia & linux or they can grab something like this by
the balls.

>gamez

Really?

~~~
unlogic
_Compare that to the androids absolutely crushing the entire mobile market_

Why would I compare totally different things? When Android came by, there was
no monopoly in the mobile OS market. Every vendor had its own. Also, there are
much less legacy applications than on desktops. And mobile OS is substantially
easier to catch up with. Prior to smartphone era users had no trouble
switching between phone vendors (and subsequently the OSes). Switching to a
new a desktop OS is way more difficult step.

Better compare it to OS X. Same decades in the market, and still only ~15%
share. Yes, more than GNU, but they do their own hardware, and OS is by far
not their main selling point.

 _I focused on gaming, because we are discussing a post about Valve_

Sorry, I shouldn't have jumped on you so quickly. Yes, GNU/Linux seriously
lacks in a few more areas besides gaming (namely, professional media editing).
But it is still a far stretch to say Linux isn't advancing on the desktops.
Jeez, 10 years ago we didn't have a decent office suite.

Anyway, what makes you so concerned about Nvidia motivation? My integrated
Intel video does an excellent job drawing whatever 2D I throw at it. And it
even can do 3D well enough to play some 5yo games (if you consider TF2 one of
those).

------
officemonkey
The only reason I chose Windows over Mac OS X for my new home computer is I
wanted to play games on it.

If SteamOS lets me play AAA games (and not just Portal, Half-Life, Left4Dead
and Team Fortress) AND it lets me run XBMC or Plex or some other TV software,
then I'd switch in a second.

~~~
EvanKelly
I'm certainly not a "gamer" any longer, but I still have a pretty healthy
Steam library.

I've been very happy with the increasing options on Mac OS X and I hope they
keep improving.

I'm way more excited about slower, turn-based games, and Civ V, Europa
Universalis, and FTL have been enough to keep me from searching for anything
else.

Despite this, I know I've been missing out on games I would probably love. I
think I see a SteamOS device in my future.

------
massysett
"The desktop" that is relevant for GNU/Linux distributions is a stagnant,
shrinking market. You will see more Chromebooks than you will ever see Linux
desktops. At first glance SteamOS does not even look like a GNU/Linux desktop.
It's supposed to be a living room machine, complete with its own "SteamBox."
Attributing anything important to SteamOS is akin to saying "Roku is Linux;
this is really going to help us get some drivers."

~~~
ZeroGravitas
I'm guessing you don't count chromebooks/ boxes as "Linux desktops"?

~~~
massysett
No, I'm not an RMS disciple but here I said GNU/Linux for a reason.
Chromebooks aren't GNU/Linux. Torvalds doesn't seem to be saying that Steam
will help with Chromebook-like devices--and why would it? The manufacturer
will do what it takes to get the drivers working on those devices.

~~~
ZeroGravitas
If you use just "Linux", then there's some ambiguity. If you use both
"GNU/Linux" and "Linux" to refer to the same thing in consecutive sentences,
then that's plain misleading.

------
moocowduckquack
If they help sort out some decent graphics driver code I will love them
forever and send them cake on their birthday.

~~~
officemonkey
No cake necessary, just buy their games. :-D

~~~
evanb
Yeah, the cake was a lie.

~~~
FlailFast
You monster.

------
drill_sarge
I think it will help not exclusively _Linux_ but it will help more to get real
support behind graphics drivers. Sure, some of this is directly related to the
kernel (like power management, switchable graphics etc.) but mostly it is
stuff which isn't directly related to the kernel (e.g. mesa, xorg, wayland).
What I see recently that AMD has really stepped up too (if you own Radeon HD,
not the very old Xwhatever series), contributing to kernel code and mesa
drivers. Nvidia has some pretty good proprietary drivers, but heh... they are
proprietary. Thats the main problem I have: Both AMD/Nvidia closed drivers
offer better 3D performance, better feature support for their chips etc. but
when I have trouble with graphics on my system, it's because of the closed
drivers. You never know if they still work after updating.

------
Sheepshow
I know this isn't the point of the article, but:

> developers focus on useless UX features

This is the number one reason I have personally delivered poor quality
software.

------
asmman1
It makes me wonder how different is this one from the dozen of Linux
distributions around. Will this one solve any of the followings problems? if
so, it's a very good start.

Linux is hard to use on day-day. Even you chose the most friendly distribution
(like Ubuntu) Almost nothing works in the first try to install. Look, I failed
to get the newly gcc version (I really want it) because I need to compile from
source code and a lot of libs is missing from my system and when I try to
install others lot of libs is missing too. It's get in looping. I got the
latest version of Microsoft Visual Studio in just one second. Where can I get
something better? Also, nowdays everybody is switching to a XBOX/PS4 etc and
no longer do much play on PC. I don't have numbers, but I can seen it's
changing a lot. It shouldn't decrease, just unlike, it means in a future (very
close) playing big games on PC is almost dead. Why should someone invest time
and money in something going to no longer exists? PC is something that the
peoples will continues to have to work and browser on internet, if not on your
smartphone/tablet.

~~~
arjie
GCC 4.8 is in the repos. Interesting that you had trouble getting it.

~~~
asmman1
Show me how to install it?

