
Beyond Meat S-1 - doppp
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1655210/000162828019004543/beyondmeats-1a5.htm
======
troydavis
The version linked to is from 2018. Here's the current version (April 22,
2019):
[https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1655210/000162828019...](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1655210/000162828019004543/beyondmeats-1a5.htm)

Things that stood out:

They buy this pea protein: [https://www.roquette.com/product-
overview/proteins-and-deriv...](https://www.roquette.com/product-
overview/proteins-and-derivatives/). Have committed to $22MM of protein (from
2 vendors)

Founder owns 6%

Co-manufactured by [https://www.clwfoods.com/](https://www.clwfoods.com/) and
[http://www.fplfood.net/](http://www.fplfood.net/) (seemingly typo'ed in the
S-1 as FLP)

The burger was 70% of 2018 revenue and 48% of 2017 revenue

Q4 gross margin: 25%, up from ~0% a year prior

R&D: 63 food engineers

~~~
sctb
Thanks! We've updated the link from
[https://sec.report/Document/1655210/000162828018014471/beyon...](https://sec.report/Document/1655210/000162828018014471/beyondmeats-1.htm).

------
Pfhreak
I've gone vegetarian, except for a single grass fed animal I bought from a
local farmer. (I live in a city, it was easier than I thought it would be to
connect with a farmer out in the rural part of my state.) The transition was
way, way easier than I thought it was going to be. I didn't guilt myself when
I made mistakes, just stopped eating meat unless I was sure the provenance of
it was sustainable and free from cruelty.

There's so much amazing vegetarian cuisine, and things like the Beyond Burger
and Impossible Burger both fill that 'gotta have a burger' feeling. I hope we
see more like them, and I'm really looking forward to being able to try 'clean
meat' from some of the labs who are exploring that.

~~~
bluntfang
>free from cruelty.

Do you mind if I ask what your requirements for this are? At the end of the
day, isn't ending life cruel, no matter the means?

~~~
ZeroFries
If the animal is free from suffering, including lacking awareness of what's
happening during the killing, that's as free from cruelty as you can get. If
lacking life is what's cruel, then vegetarianism doesn't really solve that
problem, since the animal would never be born without farming.

~~~
PerfectElement
I don't think lacking life has ever been an argument vegetarians use. Once
consciousness emerges, there is an innate desire to remain alive and to be
free from suffering. Even if we could give animals a wonderful life in our
current capitalist system, and then kill them without their awareness, we'd
still need to justify (from a philosophical standpoint) why it would be
immoral to do the same with a human animal.

~~~
lucb1e
> I don't think lacking life has ever been an argument vegetarians use.

That would make sense, since GP said:

> If lacking life is what's cruel, then vegetarianism doesn't really solve
> that problem.

So if vegetarians used the argument that lacking life is cruel, then
vegetarianism would be cruel, right? It makes perfect sense (given GP's point)
that they don't use that argument.

You're the third replyer that writes as if they disagree about this while
making the same point. I'm wondering if I'm reading this wrong, or if GP
edited their comment just before I loaded the page.

~~~
PerfectElement
The GP implied that vegetarians use the logic "ending life is cruel" as a
basis for their stance.

------
martythemaniak
Not a vegetarian here, but I'm really excited about companies and products in
this space. There's a lot of very poor quality meat out there that can easily
be substituted by these products for cost, nutrition and environmental
reasons. The way I describe the Impossible Burger to friends that haven't
tried it is "If I invited you to a BBQ with decent store-brand frozen patties
and randomly inserted Impossible patties, you probably wouldn't notice".

I have a general prediction about these products though: I think they'll
follow the broad development of art and games. Initially they will work very
very hard to produce something that is as close to meat as possible, just like
gaming worked very hard at photo-realism for many many years. But once they
reach close enough, people will actually get bored and new and more
interesting meat-like products, which traditional meat could never produce,
much the same way gaming gave up photo-realism and many hit games started
taking on more artistic qualities.

~~~
Zigurd
"Ethical cannibalism." Some med student is going to eat a surplus lab-grown
kidney, and there you'll have it.

~~~
EliRivers
I expect that at some point, it will be possible to grow meat from any given
set of human DNA. At this point, I see two things:

1) Lines of celebrity meat. One might be able to look forwards to, for
example, an Angelina Jolie steak.

2) Middle class (well, by then the middle classes won't exist - let's just say
"rich people") dinner parties in which the hostess serves her guests herself.
On a plate.

Is it cannibalism if it was never part of a whole human, but was instead grown
in a vat?

~~~
Thorrez
>Lines of celebrity meat.

Check out [http://bitelabs.org/](http://bitelabs.org/)

~~~
EliRivers
My idea! I should have written a disturbing SF short story à la Ray Bradbury
while I had the chance. Oh well.

Angelina Jolie salami doesn't sound so good; I'll hold out for the steak.
Something off the leg, please!

------
PerfectElement
I've been vegan for 15 years, and I've tried all sorts of veggie burgers and
mock meats available. Some of them are good, but pretty easy to tell they are
not meat. When I first had the Beyond Burger last year (just plain with 2 thin
slices of bread) it brought back a very strong memory of how meat used to
taste. I wonder if most meat eaters would be able to tell it's not meat on a
blind test.

I'm curious to try the Impossible Burger, but I haven't seen it in my area
yet.

~~~
daeken
As a meat eater, I've had mixed results with Beyond Burger and the Impossible
Burger. With real meat, it's pretty hard to mess up a burger; if it's anywhere
from medium rare to medium well, it's still going to be a pretty tasty burger.
The current burger substitutes require a much more narrow window before they
just don't taste very good. That said, I'm extremely bullish on these; they're
already great and they're only going to get better from here.

~~~
jordanpg
Good points about ease of cooking and error.

So much of short-term adoption of these is tied to marketing and time, but
their long-term success strikes me as a foregone conclusion.

In marketing, they will need to get past a latent psychological hurdle and in
time, waiting for the crotchety older folks who insist, no matter what, on a
"real burger." Both things are related to the living generations who have
grown up with "real burgers."

~~~
daeken
I genuinely can't imagine an outcome where these don't become commonplace. Not
going to predict that they're going to replace beef or anything, but it won't
be weird to get a meat substitute burger from Wendy's or the like.

~~~
somberi
Burger King (limited trials) and White Castle (370 outlets), already carry
Impossible Burger patties.

[https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/apr/02/burger-
king...](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/apr/02/burger-king-vegan-
whopper-meat-free-impossible-launch)

~~~
toomuchtodo
White Castle Impossible patties are delicious. I don't order traditional meat
there anymore because of it.

------
somethoughts
I've always thought two things:

\- Subway should have leaned into their use of soy in their deli meat [1] and
came in from the high end with it being the more expensive, high end,
healthier, better for the environment product

\- There should be high end burger chain which give you an eighth of a pound
real meat burger patty for taste reasons and an eighth of a pound vegetarian
patty for health and environment reasons. If everyone switched to such a
solution, we could could our greenhouse gas emissions from burger production
in half. In all honesty, this comment is based on superficial skimming of the
following article/Beyond Meat press release [2].

In fact, the Asian means of eating tofu is fundamentally different from the
vegitarian way of eating tofu. The Asian means of preparation is typically 75%
tofu and 25% is meat for taste. When you go 100% tofu, its no wonder most
people won't touch it.

[1] [https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-
way/2017/03/01/517920680...](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-
way/2017/03/01/517920680/dna-tests-find-subway-chicken-only-50-percent-meat-
canadian-media-reports)

[2] [https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/21/how-bill-gates-backed-
vegan-...](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/21/how-bill-gates-backed-vegan-beyond-
meat-is-winning-over-meat-eaters.html)

"Producing Beyond Burgers uses 99 percent less water, 93 percent less land,
creates 90 percent fewer greenhouse gas emissions and requires 46 percent less
energy than producing beef burgers, according to a September report
commissioned by Beyond Meat."

~~~
rayiner
> If everyone switched to such a solution, we could could our greenhouse gas
> emissions from burger production in half.

We'd be eating less tasty burgers for no real reason. Even eliminating meat
farming entirely would only reduce the average American's GHG emissions by
about 3%: [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/climate/cows-global-
warmi...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/climate/cows-global-
warming.html).

~~~
nothal
So far as I can tell, that number is speaking directly to methane emitted from
livestock which is not where the majority of livestock emissions come from.
It’s more related to the fossil fuel usage and transportation costs.

~~~
rayiner
No, it says farming overall accounts for 8% of green house gas emissions, and
animal farming is 42% of that.

------
morley
I have a stupid question: was there a regulatory change in the recent past
that made it easier to file for IPOs? Or is this just a coincidence that all
these S-1s were filed around the same time?

~~~
gdsdfe
It's just a good time to file, the end of 10 year bull market right before
next year's recession

~~~
colinbartlett
I find it amusing how confidently you state that. As if completely ignoring
all the people who have said that same thing every year for the past 5.

~~~
gdsdfe
So you think it will be an indefinite bull market or that the recession won't
happen next year?

~~~
evanriley
There obviously won't be an indefinite bull market, but why are you so
confident it will happen next year?

~~~
gdsdfe
I am not, nobody is ... But a lot of people more knowledgeable than me in this
area say it's highly probable we'll have one next year or early 2021. The
'when' don't matter much in this context, alot of people are expecting one and
it's coming which makes it an ideal time to IPO

~~~
chrismarlow9
[https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2019/3...](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2019/3/25/18279705/yield-
curve-inversion-recession-explained)

------
sammycdubs
I've seen this said before (I forget from who), but I honestly think that over
the next few decades meat is going to go through a similar transition to
tobacco.

I don't think it's ever going to disappear completely, but I think it's going
to become something most people only enjoy once in a while if at all. I also
think that meat consumption is going to be viewed in a significantly more
negative light over time.

~~~
freewilly1040
Why? Do you think global warming considerations are going to be that
mainstream? Tobacco has a lot of things going against it - it's bad for you in
any amount and it gives off an unpleasant odor that stains fabric and walls.
Not much of this applies to meat.

~~~
ip26
Red meat is a carcinogen & spoils quickly. There's the whole animal cruelty
thing too.

If the imitations can get good enough and also beat on price to boot, that
could seal the deal as well.

~~~
leadingthenet
> Red meat is a carcinogen & spoils quickly

This is overblown and not nearly as well supported by science as you think.
Just like how people said for decades that saturated fat is bad for you. It's
provably not.

------
gyaniv
I think the whole sector of meat-substitutions would be very successful, can't
speak about this specific IPO, because of the state of the entire market right
now.

But if many big companies, highly invested in meat are investing in
substitutes as well, they are not doing it from moral/humane/environmental
reasons, they are just doing it for the money, so for those that are dedicated
to this, it seems promising (if they can just survive the punches that "big
meat" will send their way)

------
strict9
Cannot wait.

A+ product that stores struggle to keep stocked.

It's been a long time time since I've admired a company as much as this one.

~~~
cknoxrun
A&W in Canada has a Beyond meat burger and a Beyond meat breakfast sausage
sandwich. I go there semi-regularly (being the best fast food restaurant in
Canada in my opinion) and I am astonished - almost every second person in line
is ordering the Beyond meat option.

Edit: Important to note that A&W Canada is completely independent from A&W in
the U.S.

~~~
bdamm
Also note that the burgers produced by A&W in the U.S. are complete trash
almost every time, not comparable to A&W Canada which produces consistently
delicious burgers.

------
r00fus
So I've had an Impossible burger (from my company cafeteria), but it was
probably over-cooked.

Does anyone know where I could taste-test a Beyond burger vs. Impossible
burger?

Definitely interested in this space as it's one of the surefire ways we reduce
both energy and water, and I have family who are veggie and this makes it
easier for me to connect with them.

~~~
ceejayoz
I haven't found Impossible in my area yet, but this is a big concern for me -
trying it out and not knowing if I screwed it up or if it's just not my thing
regardless of preparation.

~~~
TaylorAlexander
I think it depends on how you view meat. If you look at both of them as benign
foods where taste is the only important aspect, you may like beef more. But if
other factors like ethical treatment of animals or greenhouse gas emissions
matter to you, these burger substitutes offer a lot without the same
negatives.

~~~
ceejayoz
I think you're misunderstanding my comment.

If I made a creme brulee recipe without having ever tasted it done correctly
by someone else, I wouldn't know if the texture/taste was correct.

I have the same fear with the Impossible burgers - I want one cooked the way
the company _intended_ , so I know what it's _supposed_ to taste like.
Otherwise, my first impression of it might just be due to me over/undercooking
it.

------
HuShifang
For the philosophically rigorous, Christine Korsgaard has a good newer book[1]
on animal ethics and their implications that has significant bearing on some
of the comments here. (And she's a rather better thinker than Peter Singer.)

[1]: [https://global.oup.com/academic/product/fellow-
creatures-978...](https://global.oup.com/academic/product/fellow-
creatures-9780198753858?cc=us&lang=en&)

------
jedberg
I'm not a vegetarian but I do care about the environment. So I always try to
find meats that are sustainably farmed etc, but sometimes it's hard and
sometimes I just only have time for a quick fast food meal.

But if they have an impossible burger, I'll get that every time, even if it
costs more.

My hope is that over time their costs come down so much that the impossible
burger is actually cheaper, at which point I think we'll see a sea change in
meat farming. If getting the meat free burger at McDonalds costs less than the
meat one but tastes the same, that right there would be huge for the
environment.

------
joez
Their roadshow video is up:
[https://www.retailroadshow.com/](https://www.retailroadshow.com/)

I always find the video presentation more insightful.

Edit: Directly linking to the video didn't work.

~~~
onebot
Session expired.

~~~
joez
ugh, try just navigating from
[https://www.retailroadshow.com/](https://www.retailroadshow.com/)

------
shafyy
I recommend watching What The Health
([https://www.whatthehealthfilm.com/](https://www.whatthehealthfilm.com/)) - a
great doc by the same guys who did Cowspiracy, this time focusing on the
health and lobyy aspects of the meat and diary industry.

Negative lobbying is something that fills me with anger unlike any other and
not eating meat and diary JUST to stop giving those fuckers my money is reason
enough. Of course, there are many other great reasons to do so (animal
welfare, environment, health) - and no objectively good reason to eat meat and
diary.

And no, reasons such as:

\- "We need meat to be healthy"

\- "Humans meant to be eat meat historically"

\- "I love the taste and this is a free country"

Are either scientifically wrong or not objectively good reasons.

------
dzhiurgis
I've tried Impossible Burger once in a some random bar. Was dissatisfied -
texture was ok, but had weird after taste.

Also tried to cook some Beyond Meat burgers the other week. The stench was
horrible, even my roommates noticed. Topped with mayo, garlic butter, bbq
sauce and onions it did kinda hide the horrible flavour, but still I couldn't
finish it. I could feel that horrible flavour for a day or two after.

Really had big hopes for it and will definitely try again, but for now it's a
joke.

~~~
lamby
Don't forget they are really selling a wider
cknversation/story/narrative/worldview than just the meat. To focus too much
on the product itself might therefore be a mistake.

(Besides, that part can always be tuned... )

~~~
dzhiurgis
That's why I stick with regular vegetarian meals. Indian thali is amazing.
Tofu, tempeh, quinoa - passable.

Fake meat - non starter (same with mylks).

~~~
lamby
I don't disagree that those are nicer items, I've had them countless times
myself.. but I think you may be missing the "point" of Beyond Meat if you
solely talk about the taste or macronutrients.

~~~
dzhiurgis
I think the promise they selling is that science can make it better than
regular meat (I think it's certainly possible with genetically engineered stem
cell meat), but I am not seeing that yet.

------
stjohnswarts
I remain a keto advocate but I can understand why vegetarians do what they do
and kudos to them for choosing to do it. However, if I have to listen to one
more skinny white girl angrily try to convince me that I'm evil because I'm
not vegan/vegetarian I might crack and yell back.

------
byproxy
All well and good and as someone who doesn't eat meat it's nice to have more
options when getting fast food, but at home I prefer the frozen vegetarian
burger patties that have been available from Morningstar or Boca as they tend
to be much more affordable and have more protein/calorie.

------
ggm
I've always felt quorn
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn))
got a raw deal. They made some stupid marketing positions, they allowed the
agenda to get ramped up around allergy when its ratio of risk is significantly
lower than other foods including soy, and they walked into a battery hen issue
needlessly.

But the fundamentals look pretty good. Its a bioreactor, it scales, it can use
varying feedstock, and its good nutritive value.

TVP which proceeded it, in my highly subjective opinion was crap in
comparison. It reminded me of badly cooked stewing meat, when the connective
tissue is left behind and the good bits are now in the stock: you don't want
to swallow this.. cellophane meat "thing"..

~~~
cageface
A lot of their products contain eggs, which sort of defeats the purpose of
making plant based alternatives.

~~~
ggm
The quorn and tvp era was focussed on protein shortage and we understood how
to make chicken things happen in bulk. It was efficient use of animal product
to source binder in egg form deprecating the inefficient grazing behind pork,
lamb and beef. Chicken farming is pretty intensive. (I'm skirting the moral
aspect here)

It wasn't initially about vegetarianism as a holistic view avoiding animal
products, as much as fending off starvation from lack of food. If they had
found a way to make beef farming productive enough I think they would would
have gone there. The input was surplus product from a flour producer. I don't
think they were radical vegetarians.

They did subsequently get on the vegan bandwagon but had lost market momentum,
and the whole 'fusarium is not a mushroom' and 'you are allergens' kind of
killed it for a while.

------
leekyle333
For people that like to eat healthy, how do you feel about eating something as
processed as the "beyond burger?" I get that it's nice to have another option
but to me it's hard for me to stomach the ingredients especially with canola
being the third ingredient.

~~~
jakevn
Processed is not a bad word when it comes to health. What matters are the
ingredients. I'm not aware of any consensus on canola being anything but
healthy, but am interested in learning more as canola oil is what I use for
cooking.

That being said, like any meat or meat-substitute, I wouldn't consider it a
"health food".

~~~
leekyle333
I agree with you that the ingredients matter, but I also think as a blanket
statement avoiding processed foods is smart.

I think this is a pretty good synopsis of why canola and PUFA's
(polyunsaturated fatty acids)are bad. I actually think it's possible that we
should be vilifying them on the same level as sugar.
[https://www.alexfergus.com/blog/pufa-s-the-worst-thing-
for-y...](https://www.alexfergus.com/blog/pufa-s-the-worst-thing-for-your-
health-that-you-eat-everyday)

------
HuShifang
The amended S-1 from March 27, 2019 can be found at:

[https://www.nasdaq.com/markets/ipos/filing.ashx?filingid=133...](https://www.nasdaq.com/markets/ipos/filing.ashx?filingid=13324109)

------
tgb29
So great to see all these recent IPOs coming from tech investments and
innovation. California is making the Stock Market for everyone much stronger.

------
narrator
Here comes billions of ideological vegetarianism and virtue signaling dollars.
Might as well be a charity. Great business model. Lose money forever to chase
a shared ideological purpose for the benefit of investor's ideological
salvation.

It's like funding of the building of a church for the PETA crowd.

------
gnclmorais
My biggest question about this “meat” is how it compares to the real deal,
nutritionally speaking.

------
randomacct3847
Anecdotally seems like impossible burger has been more commercially successful

~~~
codezero
There's definitely a bit of an arms race going on, and it's unfortunate. I
find both products to be very different, and we could stand to have some
diversity in the area of alternative meat products.

Off the top of my head, in terms of commercial availability I've seen them at:

Beyond: \- Safeway (both meat patties, and frozen boxed crumbles) \- Del Taco
\- Carls Jr. \- Veggie Grill

Impossible: \- Umami Burger \- White Castle \- Smaller retail locations \-
pilot w/ Burger King

Beyond also has a lot of products, from sausages, crumbles, and different
flavors of meat.

I think Impossible is highly focused on reproducing ground beef.

~~~
redisman
> There's definitely a bit of an arms race going on, and it's unfortunate.

I don't follow, how is competition bad in this case? Sounds like the opposite
to me.

~~~
Slippery_John
I think they're afraid that one brand will be so much more successful that the
other goes away. Each brand has different flavor, texture, and nutritional
profiles so if any of those are particularly important to you then it's hard
to make do with one of the other options.

For example, both Beyond Meat and Quorn sell meatless "beef" crumbles. Each
has a noticeably different flavor and fairly different nutrition (The Quorn
has significantly fewer calories, but less protein for example). I would be
sad if either one went out of business because I use them differently.

~~~
redisman
It's still such a niche market that expanding it right now is the best thing
for all the players. Beyond Meat revenue is $33m compared to say Tyson at
$33b. The veggie meat market is also a lot less homogenic than meats since
everyone makes their own proprietary blends from thousands of possible
ingredients. Compared to say cheap chicken where it's impossible to tell
brands apart.

------
b_tterc_p
Exciting. I would invest in this if I didn’t think the market was on the brink
of collapse.

------
drewda
Instead of competing over burgers, could Beyond Meat or Impossible Burger work
on brisket?

------
ericdykstra
I see this as just another way to replace some of the natural food in your
diet with a garbage mix of highly processed plants and oils. No thanks, I’ll
stick to the food that has created and sustained human life for 1000s of years
over a science experiment. If you want to subject yourself to this, go ahead,
but it’s not for me.

------
gamegoblin
I am an omnivore, but deeply interested in meat substitutes. Before trying the
burger by Impossible Foods, it was my opinion that the patty by Beyond Meat
was definitely the best.

I am a big burger consumer, and I tend to rank the various substitute burgers
on a scale that indicates how satisfied I feel afterwards, and how accurate
the imitation is.

I felt like the Beyond Burger was 8/10 in terms of being as satisfying as a
burger, but only 6/10 in terms of being a good imitation.

For an example on why I use the different scales, plant-based patties tend to
sear differently than real beef, tending to produce a thin crisp layer. This
isn't great in terms of being a good imitation, but it actually has really
good mouthfeel, so it increases the enjoyment.

Being 8/10 in terms of satisfaction is a pretty important threshold for me. It
is at the level where I can eat one and feel like I ate a burger. Most veggie
patties are in the 4-7 range (Gardein is pretty good) in terms of
satisfaction, and even lower imitation quality.

When I first had the Impossible Burger a couple years ago, it was 9/10
satisfying and 8/10 imitation. It still had the distinctive plant-based patty
crispiness, but the internal texture was much more accurate. This was back
when the Impossible was only in a few dozen restaurants in the country, so
this was at a nice place in Las Vegas. I got an Impossible and a Wagyu beef
burger side by side for comparison. By the time I finished, the most obvious
physical difference I'd noticed was that the Impossible burger loses heat much
faster than a real beef burger.

In January 2019, Impossible began rolling out their 2.0 recipe, and they are
now in hundreds of locations. I got the 2.0 at an upper tier burger place ($20
for a burger) and again did a side-by-side test. The Impossible still lost
heat faster than a real beef burger, but the characteristic thin crispy sear
on the patty was reduced significantly.

Visually, the inside of the patty was virtually indistinguishable from real
beef. It's 10/10 satisfying and 9/10 imitation. I think it's indistinguishable
from a Burger King quality burger, but still not quite as hot and juicy as a
more expensive gourmet beef burger. I imagine they might be able to just make
a less healthy version that is packed full of various oils and whatnot to get
that quality.

Once the Impossible Burger rolls out to grocery stores later this year, I will
never have to buy ground beef again.

To Beyond Meat's credit, their Beyond Brats are the best veggie sausage I have
had, and as far as I know, Impossible doesn't have immediate plans to take on
that market. I've found that they have supply chain/production issues with
Beyond Brats, though, as they are almost always sold out at the Whole Foods
near me.

TL;DR I believe Impossible Foods is going to eat Beyond Meat's lunch

~~~
codezero
Interesting take. I've always said Impossible tastes more like meat, but has a
bad texture match, and Beyond tastes less like meat but has a better texture.

With that said, I think the flavor and quality of Beyond is higher, for me.
Impossible still hovers around low-grade, poor texture ground beef. I want
them both to be successful because the more options we have the better.

I think Impossible is likely to be more successful targeting current meat
eaters, though, so you may be right about their longer term success.

I've found the variance of each burger to be highly dependent on the
preparation, so I think a real fair test would be made-at-home side-by-side. I
enjoy the Beyond patty made at home on a skillet without much extra besides a
bun and catchup and mustard, this says a lot.

I'm a recent vegetarian (4 years).

~~~
gamegoblin
Have you tried the Impossible 2.0? It's noticeably better.

I agree that preparation has a _huge_ impact on quality. I once had an
Impossible 1.0 that was so badly prepared I ate 1/3 of it and then gave up.

I am wondering if Impossible will come up with a specialized cooker (imagine a
waffle press sort of thing, but for burger patties) that will automate
temperature management and cook time in order to reduce variability. But I
assume their final goal is to just make their substitute cook exactly like
real beef.

~~~
codezero
I’ll have to double check. I had an impossible burger recently but didn’t see
the version. It was similar enough to previous ones that it’s safe to assume
it was 1.0.

------
meekstro
Beyond meat works for financial reasons. Sunlight, pea plant, factory, paddy
costs less at scale than sunlight, corn plant, cow, slaughter house, factory,
paddy.

It does not work particularly well for dietary reasons. The calorie reduction
will reduce inflammation if it is not offset by additional excess calories but
the omega 3 fatty acid profile will not compete financially with fatty acid
profile of algae or grass-fed protein. The beyond meat diet will therefore
lead to more inflammation in the general population and increased rates of
chronic illness including diabetes and brain disorders.

A moderate amount of protein and fat from Grassfed animals and oily cold water
fish combined with moderate low inflammatory carbohydrate starches and loads
of vegetables is the optimum human diet.

Every other diet has a negative externality of increased chronic illness.
Health outcomes as measured by life expectancy are not better for the average
middle income human who survived to the age of 5 in 2019 than they were for
the equivalent dataset living 150 years ago in England.

And then you have the vegans. What is more precious? a virus, a amoeba, a
bacteria, a prokaryote, a eukaryote, a fungus, a plant, a insect, a arachnid,
a cephalopod, an invertebrate, a reptile, a bird, a mammal, a political ally,
a community, a friend, a sibling, a parent, a child or a vegan's theory?

Rhetorical question. Human Parents minimise the suffering of their children
and expect the favour to be returned in kind.

The choice between animal suffering and decreased probability of the onset of
your child's future chronic illness is easy if enlightened. Beyond meat
therefore doesn't work for economic reasons and is a fad of unknown duration.

The negative externalities of a vegetarian diet are currently obscured by the
corn lobby and any other political factions currently profiting from the sale
of inflammatory foods. They love the vegans chipping in. I often wonder if
roadkill slowly dying keeps vegans up at night or If they are sleeping through
it? And if if they are, how?

As for grassfed animals. Pastured land is marginal for growing starches or
vegetables. Solutions are in development for the reduction in nitrate leaching
and methane emission. The positive externalities of a low inflammation
moderate carbohydrate, moderate protein grass/algae fed diet and the reduction
in chronic illness outweigh the negative externalities of the methane. Put
nuclear engines in cargo vessels to trade the meat around, methane problem
neutralised, global health enhanced.

Food should be judged on it's toxicity to the general population and nothing
else. It is the only objective measure and miraculously the economics results
in humane farming practice and better human health.

Pretty hard to judge the toxicity of beyond meat and that's why I choose to
eat whole ingredients that I process myself. I think they will make some money
dependent on flavour, texture, marketing and distribution capability. Although
kraft spent 1 billion relabeling their cheese about 10 years back so good luck
competing against that. Eventually the human dietary truth will come out and
misplaced idealism won't save the business from public knowledge. That could
take 20 years but I think the inflammation and dietary literature is going to
converge before then.

Bill Gates isn't a vegan.

~~~
cageface
Your tone is unnecessarily snarky but I don't think you're wrong that these
new meat substitutes are probably not as healthy as a more thoughtful plant
based diet. I think it's great that they're available but I don't plan to eat
them regularly.

As for animal protein being necessary for human health, that's not even true
in the ideal natural case, never mind the reality of the horror show that
today's factory farmed meats have become.

If you think you can meet global demand for meat with free-ranging grazing
cows then you haven't even looked at the numbers and claiming that feeding
cows seaweed eliminates the methane issues means you also haven't actually
looked at the numbers there.

~~~
sridca
> Your tone is unnecessarily snarky

I disagree. He or she is one of the few intelligent commenters on this thread
that is not mindlessly grasping on to this alarming vegan/vegetarian trend.
And lo and behold, they are getting downvoted to oblivion.

~~~
cageface
HN is a fairly intelligent and educated crowd by internet standards. Perhaps
it should give you pause that so many such people not only consider veganism
not alarming but actually positive. And dismissing it as mindless doesn't
really signal debating in good faith on your part or his.

~~~
sridca
> HN is a fairly intelligent and educated crowd by internet standards.

Yet intelligent and educated people do hold beliefs not based on facts, and
are unwilling to be questioned.

> Perhaps it should give you pause that so many such people not only consider
> veganism not alarming but actually positive.

It gives me no pause whatsoever as I'm not someone that so easily follows the
crowd. I simply take it to be the case that veganism is the flat-earth-theory
of 2019.

> And dismissing it as mindless doesn't really signal debating in good faith
> on your part or his.

Good faith on my, and others, part and already have come by and been downvoted
into oblivion. Have you been watching this thread?

~~~
cageface
_I simply take it to be the case that veganism is the flat-earth-theory of
2019._

And you wonder why nobody takes your comments seriously. The American
Dietetics Association, the largest association of professional dieticians in
the world, says vegan diets are healthy and appropriate for all ages:

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27886704](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27886704)

Science is on our side. Who's the flat earther here?

~~~
toight
Science doesn't have the multivariate statistical capability to settle the
argument yet. Like I said The literature's converging and if dietitians had
anything of value to add why are chronic health conditions escalating. I'm
betting on the macro ratios of the pre colonial Polynesian diet, Works pretty
well for me. And I can do 40 pressups without any training other than the odd
walk and grass fed roast lamb is absolutely delicious and it's biochemistry
evolved in synch with mine.But by all means eat the pea goo, it reduces the
demand for lamb. Everyone gets freedom of choice to eat what they choose in
developed countries, It's a valuable freedom.

~~~
cageface
I agree that we still have a lot to learn about nutrition. What’s not
controversial is that you can be perfectly healthy on a strictly plant based
diet. Dismissing vegans as flat earthers or vegan diets as pea goo just makes
you sound defensive.

Also, the diet you choose has consequences for the environment and the animals
you eat so it’s not simply a matter of individual choices. Red meat in
particular has a huge carbon footprint.

~~~
meekstro
It is controversial though. Vegans have higher rates of depression and anxiety
than the general cheeseburger eating population which has terrible rates of
depression and anxiety. They also have higher rates of auto-immune disorders.
The major benefit of their diet comes from toxicity reduction from eating
optimised daily calories.

A plant sits in one spot thinking how to poison anything that eats too much of
it. An animal moves about consuming as little poison as possible.

Once you're assured of enough calories (which used to limit population growth)
the primary solution is to eat some calories from animals that evolved systems
for processing plant toxins to minimise your toxic load.

I used pea goo in the comment because I went to the beyond meat website and
looked at the ingredients in the impossible burger. The impossible burger
consists of about 15 chemical compounds, combined by people highly financially
motivated to optimise flavour, texture and colour and the primary component is
pea protein. If you can think of a more concise name I'm all ears but it's
definitely not a iphone or macbook air.

Vegan's choose pea goo over lamb. That's their choice and some vegan's will
have the genetic biochemistry to live healthily on a plant based diet. The
general population doesn't share that biochemistry. Veganism is the most
environmentally sound option if one's health optimises from the diet.
Unfortunately this is not the case for the majority of the population. The
average vegan should be admired for their sacrifice, not their logic.

~~~
cageface
Citation for your claims about depression and immune disorders being more
common in vegans? I've seen tons of studies showing exactly the opposite and
also anecdotally in every vegan I know.

Plant based diets are highly anti inflammatory which helps a lot with
depression. And the mammalian proteins in meat & dairy seem to be powerful
triggers for the immune system to start attacking itself.

~~~
meekstro
Vegetarians and rates of Depression
[https://ijbnpa.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1479-5868-...](https://ijbnpa.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1479-5868-9-67)

I don't have one for immune disorders. I apologise but people with multiple
sclerosis don't gravitate towards vegan diets.

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3181302/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3181302/)
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6412750/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6412750/)

Can you please share a few of the best studies you've seen on veganism
reducing depression and autoimmune disorders, I'm genuinely interested and
hope I'm missing something.

------
UI_at_80x24
>Have committed to $22MM of protein

I've never understood this convention and it always causes my brain to short-
circuit when trying to read it. Is that $22 Million Monies, or $22
MegaMillions

I'm assuming that the shorthand is supposed to be read as: $22 Million

So then I spend the next 5 minutes stuck in a feedback loop of what the hell
am I supposed to be thinking.

~~~
vincentmarle
M is the Roman numeral for 1000, so MM is a thousand thousands, in other words
a million.

~~~
AznHisoka
It is an awkward notation. Nobody says 100M for $100,000, they say 100K. So
why should 100 million be 100MM? It forces people to pause, and think
unnecessarily.

~~~
ewhanley
Only if by Nobody you mean every person in the oil & gas industry. I find it
funny that people get so worked up about different units in different
industries. I get that common units would be great for a variety of reasons,
but look around - the world can’t even unite on standard units for such
tangible things as distance/length. People who work with MM as million are
familiar with the vernacular, and it seems unreasonable for them to upend a
model that works so a lay audience doesn’t have to pause and think.

~~~
overcast
I've been in the oil & gas industry for 20 years (IT side of things). We never
use MM, I'm looking at last years half year results, and it's "m" across the
board.

------
alimhaq
This is probably an unpopular opinion here but I don't think these meat
substitutes are sustainable for long term health in humans...our bodies are
clearly designed to consume meat (especially apparent when you compare our
bodies to those of our mostly herbivore relatives) and by extension we need
these nutrients to thrive (not just survive, mind you). I understand the
incentive for people to go vegan but people should tread very carefully since
it's completely contraire to their evolutionary makeup and that doesn't come
without consequences.

~~~
geogra4
What kind of comparison are you referring to? Are there studies of some kind
that you're referencing?

Most of the scientific research[0] points towards plant based diets being the
best thing for us.

[0]: [https://www.pcrm.org/clinical-research](https://www.pcrm.org/clinical-
research)

~~~
jversd673
Most scientific research made by Neal D. Barnard proponent of Vegan/plant-
based diet and founder of the said Committee.

------
vidoc
The name of this company is hilarious!

------
whitepoplar
Has any research been done on the longterm health effects of replacing meat
with synthetic meat?

~~~
jackbrookes
There aren't any "synthetic meat" products. These are plant proteins; and my
understanding of the related Impossible burger co. uses a GMO to produce an
animal protein within a plant.

~~~
exhilaration
No, heme is naturally found in all plants but in tiny quantities, they put the
gene for heme into yeast to mass produce it. Read more here:
[https://impossiblefoods.com/heme/](https://impossiblefoods.com/heme/)

~~~
sdenton4
In other words, it's not gmo, but syn-bio.

(Of course, pretty much everything in the US without an organic label is an
unholy mishmash of gmos, pesticides approved by captive regulators, and untold
gallons of antibiotics. So probably doesn't make much of a difference
anyways...)

------
balls187
pea protein isolate, expeller-pressed canola oil, refined coconut oil, water,
yeast extract, maltodextrin, natural flavors, gum arabic, sunflower oil, salt,
succinic acid, acetic acid, non-GMO modified food starch, cellulose from
bamboo, methylcellulose, potato starch, beet juice extract (for color),
ascorbic acid (to maintain color), annatto extract (for color), citrus fruit
extract (to maintain quality), vegetable glycerin.

vs

Beef

~~~
Maximus9000
Have you ever gone to a baseball game and ordered a hotdog? What's in that
hotdog? My guess is most people don't ask. They're always so damn curios to
know whats in a veggie burger... but they don't give a damn about what's in a
hotdog.

~~~
virtuallynathan
Nathan's Hot dog: Beef, Water, contains less than 2% of Salt, Sorbitol, Sodium
Lactate, Natural Flavorings, Sodium Phosphate, Hydrolyzed Corn Protein,
Paprika, Sodium Diacetate, Sodium Erythorbate, Sodium Nitrite.

