

5000% Increase in the sale of baseball bats on Amazon.co.uk - nwest
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/movers-and-shakers/sports/

======
jfruh
These loathsome people have no respect for Britain's glorious history or
traditions. Real British patriots use cricket bats on their looting spree.

~~~
dpapathanasiou
I admit I laughed, but this comment belongs more on reddit than here.

~~~
TheFunkyMonk
As a recent Reddit convert who would like to follow the rules, why?

~~~
todayiamme
Because it is easier to create slapstick than meaning.

Humor may be a part of life and discourse, but in certain cases, and
especially on the internet, it distracts from the real issue at hand, as most
slapstick fails to convey meaning. If you can make me laugh and then think,
then more power and karma to you, but most of us are unable to produce such
witty insight on the fly all the time. We try. We fail, and we spam. That's
why HN doesn't like slapstick jokes. If one person starts using slapstick then
it creates a chain reaction that distracts from the real issue at hand.

Such slapstick doesn't create meaning. It ends up destroying it.

I hope that made the issue clear to you.

~~~
mkr-hn
The initial criticism and long discussion any time someone cracks a joke isn't
much of an improvement.

~~~
ehsanu1
Except that it at least prevents the discussion devolving into a long chain of
jokes, like you see on Reddit, and generally keeps this kind of thing to a
minimum overall on HN.

There's a place for those chains of jokes, and that's mostly on Reddit (which
I enjoy browsing often). But I would prefer to keep the discussion here on HN
a bit more meaningful.

~~~
telemachos
I think mkr-hn's point, though, is that Reddit may have joke chains, but HN
has "tell-people-why-they-should-not-joke" chains. They're probably both
equally time-wasting (this whole thread is a good example, and yes I'm aware
of the irony of adding to it. Shit happens.)

~~~
Dove
Ah, but we also have threads with neither, or threads where the jokes have
simply plonked to the bottom of the page with no discussion.

------
itg
Are the rioters buying these or the people and shop owners who want to protect
their property?

~~~
Robin_Message
Surely rioters? I find it hard to believe a shop owner is seriously going to
try and hold the line by themselves against a mob. Also, a baseball bat is a
classic disguised weapon but a shopkeeper will have no justification in having
one so it is probably an offensive weapon in UK law.

I've heard it said that D-cell Maglite torches are used by security guards not
because they necessarily need a torch (a headtorch is generally more useful
anyway), but because it can be carried and justified legally.

~~~
srgseg
_I find it hard to believe a shop owner is seriously going to try and hold the
line by themselves against a mob_

Groups of shop owners are defending themselves. See this video
[http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2011/aug/09/london-
riots-...](http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2011/aug/09/london-riots-london)

------
jlmendezbonini
Shatter patellas (what are patellas anyways?), skulls...this can't be a real
review:

"Cuts looters off at the knees, 9 Aug 2011 This bat is perfectly weighted and
will suit any UK shop-owner looking to protect their property.

Thanks to the ergonomic handle, one easy swing should be enough to shatter
patellas, skulls or any other bone on your targeted looter. Personally, I
would recommend also investing in some fingerless gloves for extra grip."

[http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/cdp/member-
reviews/ATYCJGIRKTZTS/...](http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/cdp/member-
reviews/ATYCJGIRKTZTS/ref=cm_pdp_rev_title_1?ie=UTF8&sort_by=MostRecentReview#RMHYZ33K7VQD9)

~~~
portman
patella = kneecap

------
RobPfeifer
Reminded me of trainspotting:

"Ah wonder if anybody this side of the Atlantic has ever bought a baseball bat
with playing baseball in mind. Sick Boy, "Blowing It: Deid Dugs" (Chapter 4,
Story 3)"

~~~
yid
Actually, the entire situation reads eerily like the Trainspotting novel.
Looks like all the Francis Begbies are out in force.

------
Eliezer
Baseballs are up 2500%. I am not sure these stats mean quite what you think
they do.

~~~
polshaw
I believe there is law that states that a baseball bat with no ball can be
considered an offensive weapon.

~~~
sebastianavina
that's why "Baden Baseballs (Pack of 3)" are up to 3000%

------
chriserin
UKers, just make sure you get ash bats, not maple. A shattered bat on the ball
field is embarrassing. A shattered bat on the streets is dangerous. Likely
there will be no bat boy to hand you a replacement.

~~~
hugh3
Surely aluminium is the way to go?

~~~
NathanKP
An aluminum bat to the head would greatly increase the chance that the person
will be killed rather than just knocked out. I certainly disapprove of the
looters and rioters, but I don't think they deserve to die.

~~~
davidu
The force and momentum of a solid wood bat will trump a hollow light aluminum
bat any day.

The only thing you get with aluminum is a greater velocity.

~~~
NathanKP
Actually another factor that you have to take into account is that aluminum
compresses more than wood, causing a spring effect that considerably amplifies
the force. This is one reason why major league baseball does not allow metal
bats. Aluminum bats drive balls harder and faster than wooden bats. I am
working from the assumption that this same effect would happen if someone was
hit with an aluminum bat.

------
randomdrake
As of now, there's 7000% increase in the sales of military police telescopic
tonfas.

Apparently they're out of stock of them and the link is no longer working on
their site.

The original link to the item is here: [http://www.amazon.co.uk/Military-
Police-Telescopic-Tonfa-21/...](http://www.amazon.co.uk/Military-Police-
Telescopic-Tonfa-21/dp/B0049OD0CS)

You can search for the link in Google to check out a cached copy.

~~~
ralfd
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:CLBieou...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:CLBieouEW1kJ:www.amazon.co.uk/Military-
Police-Telescopic-Tonfa-21/dp/B0049OD0CS+http://www.amazon.co.uk/Military-
Police-Telescopic-Tonfa-21/dp/B0049OD0CS)

------
srgseg
Just to balance out the nightmarish images of London, here is a video of the
community rallying together to clean up the mess the day after
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz7WGzsaHQE>

~~~
ChuckMcM
Hmm, no offense but that looks a bit staged (or perhaps its just near the end
of the cleanup) a few people sweeping with brooms, most people milling about
and watching them.

A sad thing for me is when I start to tell a young person about a riot that I
experienced and they think its 'cool.' There is nothing, and I mean absolutely
nothing, 'cool' about a riot. You can read about mob dynamics, you can imagine
heroic acts of protest or defense, but nobody seems to capture the pure evil
that seems to permeate the air when rule of law loses its grip for a moment.

The veil of civilized behavior, and the relative safety that brings with it,
is quickly dropped by a few. Those few cause pain quite disproportionally to
their number.

~~~
petenixey
It wasn't staged, it was happening all over London - people were out in
Clapham, Peckham and Tottenham too. There were a lot of people out making a
lot of difference both literally and psychologically

~~~
SandB0x
I was in Clapham all morning with the cleanup crowd. There was nothing to do
and the police wouldn't let anyone through to the damaged areas, which were
full of forensics squads, firemen and surveyors. The last thing they want is
the general public trampling over the crime scenes (i.e. the damaged
properties,) The council had already cleaned up most of the other debris. I
went home at about 13:30.

At some point they probably let the crowd in for the photo op, but all the
real work had already been done.

------
int3rnaut
Props to the original poster--I've never thought about looking at a situation
from this perspective before, and while it's not scientific, it's an
interesting and unique way to look at a situation and certainly adds a new
layer of dialogue.

------
hullo
At least one of the items (the only explicitly martial one) appears to have
been pulled, #2 as of my viewing, "Military Police Telescopic Tonfa - 21" was
up 4,291% to #136, now 404s and doesn't return from search either. Doesn't
seem to be the case of just being out of stock, as another one of the bats in
the top 10 just shows as unavailable/out of stock.

------
rberdeen
4000% increate in the sale of Coleman PefectFlow 1-Burner Stoves on Amazon.com

<http://www.amazon.com/gp/movers-and-shakers/sporting-goods>

It must be significant.

~~~
amitparikh
No, you picked an outlier. OP pointed out a trend -- 8/10 of the top "Movers
and Shakers" are bats/batons. That is significant.

~~~
yid
With the ease with which the burner can be turned into a bomb, it's
portability (like a large Molotov), and the $15 price tag, I would be _really_
surprised if it were genuinely an outlier (in the sense of being a chance
correlation with current events).

~~~
brianleb
I hadn't thought of that. When I think of people buying little propane stoves,
I always think of them doing it for survival. What I thought was that some
people are getting their last minute emergency supplies just in case things
get worse.

------
guelo
That doesn't make sense, by the time you get the bat the riots should be over.
Are the local sporting good stores all sold out?

~~~
knowtheory
Doesn't Amazon run a shipping hub out of London? If so they may do same day
delivery.

Either way, you're hedging the cost of a bat vs the chance that riots are
going to go on for multiple days, or spring up outside of your shop?

~~~
corin_
Next day delivery if ordered before a certain time (5pm I think, might be
7pm). I'd place money on the riots still being around by the time an order
placed today arrived.

~~~
mortenjorck
Presuming, that is, that delivery is running normally.

------
ojilles
The 2nd in the list has: "Usually dispatched within 4 to 6 weeks"

That's no good, at least not for the implied use case!

------
superchink
Apparently CNN has picked up on this and has a story pointing this out as
well:

<http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/09/technology/amazon_riot/>

~~~
startupfounder
Looks like the interesting discussion is happening here:
[http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/forum/cd/discussion.html/ref=cm_c...](http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/forum/cd/discussion.html/ref=cm_cd_fp_ef_tft_tp?ie=UTF8&cdForum=FxXMJURA7JD85P&asin=B003XII2U6&cdThread=TxQSBU4OFV4E5L)

------
po
This reminds me of the recent video floating around the web (which I now can't
find) of korean americans defending their stores in the LA Riots with guns and
ad-hoc militias.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots#Riots_an...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots#Riots_and_the_Korean-
American_community)

The sometimes we take the idea of "law and order" as provided by government
for granted.

------
CoryMathews
On of the comments on the aluminum bat: "This bat is perfectly weighted and
will suit any UK shop-owner looking to protect their property."

------
ashishgandhi
Aren't we considering Amazon goofed up their arithmetic? There are a lot of
things which are selling way more as per their numbers.

------
super-serial
Was there a beer shortage?

My theory has always been that if there was no beer, everyone would slowly
realize "man, baseball is f-ing boring."

------
artursapek
50,000% increase on a riot baton with no name but five stars? It's a broken
link. I think Amazon is acting on this.

~~~
Silhouette
Probably a smart move, since various acts including importing and selling such
equipment are probably illegal in the UK, and carrying that sort of kit in a
public place would be as well (other than for police officers and the like,
obviously).

------
stcredzero
Funny, but I live in Texas, and I was just pricing aluminum baseball bats on
Amazon yesterday.

------
epaga
Note the 125000% jump in shovel sales though. That's a bit more hopeful.

------
billpg
I'm glad to see baseballs in that list too.

------
figital
"Movers and Shakers in Sports & Leisure"

------
CamperBob
Also a 4500% increase in sales of four-man tents...? Not sure these statistics
indicate anything.

------
pointyhat
That's hilarious.

------
netrus
Might become a Business Ethics Class classic. From my point of view, Amazon
should not deliver. It is obvious the bats are intended to be used as weapons,
which is illegal at least in Germany, no matter what circumstances.

~~~
ctdonath
Ah, so upstanding citizens should have no tools for defending themselves,
loved ones, homes & businesses?

Business Ethics Class classic indeed, and with no clear-cut answer.

I'd contend that anyone ordering such products online under such circumstances
is not part of the criminal element (who would instead just raid a sporting-
goods store, or pick up any comparable object) ... and thus Amazon would do
customers well to provide free overnight or same-day shipping.

~~~
grecy
We should sell them AK-47s and grenades. Probably higher profit margins.

------
justincormack
I would expect Amazon to make a statement saying they wont ship them, now this
has hit the press.

EDIT judging from hullo's comment above they have pulled all these products.
Not sure why this comment is getting so many downvotes, it is a PR issue not a
law enforcement issue, if the press are calling the company over this and it
is going to be in the papers they will do this.

~~~
mtogo
Yes, it would make perfect sense for Amazon to cancel thousands of orders
because they could be involved in some kind of ongoing riot. Great idea. /s

~~~
Alex3917
This isn't thousands, it's only a few hundred. Remember, the British don't
play much baseball so they would normally only be selling a handful of any
given bat per day.

~~~
nagrom
So, we refuse to sell bats to people who want to play baseball in the middle
of the summer (the item's main and intended innocent purpose) because other
people want to use them for other purposes?

If you don't explicitly do that, you need to figure out a way to identify the
potential nefarious users from the potential good ones. Do we allow a bat as
long as you buy a mitt and a ball too? Only to people over the age of 25
because most of the looters are under 25? By postcode?

There's no way that any business should be expected to do that - it's a police
action. If parliament wants to make bats illegal, or controlled items, that's
one issue (resting with parliament, not Amazon and just as contentious). To
refuse to sell sporting goods in case they're used for offense is just silly.
Do we then refuse to sell cricket bats, or broom handles, or 2x4s, or javelins
or kitchen knives if there's an upsurge in their sales?

Ultimately, the people responsible for the use of these items are the people
who use them. Let's not try to increase the UK's tactics of using enterprises
to carry out work to which the government doesn't want to admit.

~~~
cchurch
I believe Britain already has restrictions on knife ownership.

This is sad. Honest people resorting to ordering baseball bats on a website
for their defense. Imagine that that was your grandmother left with no other
option.

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon
the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." --Ghandi

~~~
rcfox
Grandma does have another option: She could leave the city.

~~~
burgerbrain
What makes you think she has that option?

