
Russia’s Military Buildup in the Baltic Stokes Invasion Fears - PankajGhosh
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-06/putin-s-military-buildup-in-the-baltic-stokes-invasion-fears
======
binarray2000
Can it get more silly? Russia, after disintegration of the Soviet Union, has
not moved an inch to the west. NATO, on the other hand, is nearer on Russia
than ever. And does military exercises near the Russian border. And builds
launching pads for nuclear and anti missile rockets in Poland and Romania. And
has invaded country after country (Republic of Yugoslavia 1999, Afghanistan
2001, Iraq 2003, Libya 2011...) while breaking international laws in the
process. Yet, "Russia’s Military Buildup in the Baltic Stokes Invasion Fears"!

This insults intelligence of every critically thinking person.

~~~
rdeboo
afaik Russia moved a few inches into the Crimean peninsula..

~~~
binarray2000
Yes, those ruskies! How dare they react to the coup in Ukraine? How dare they
save their naval base in Sevastopol? Base that is longer there than the US of
A exist. How dare they, among other things, react to the request to tender [1]
by the US Navy to renovate a school in Sevastopol and put US troops there -
right in the Russian garden?

[1]
[https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=2bb691b...](https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=2bb691b61c59be3a68180bd8c614a0cb&tab=core&_cview=1)

Pay attention to the timeline. Writing of the documentation for this project
had to be started at least three months prior to the publication. It was
published on 2013-09-05, Euromaidan begins on 2013-11-21, 2014-03-16 Crimean
referendum, 2014-04-15 tender is cancelled.

One million dollar question: How did US Navy know in summer of 2013 that it
will need a school in Sevastopol in 2014 considering that Ukraine was still
under Yanukowich (and close to Russia) at that time?

~~~
my_first_acct
Um, I'm not sure your description of the US Navy's Sevastopol School project
is entirely accurate. Here is a 2014 article at RT.com, which certainly cannot
be accused of pro-US bias:

[https://www.rt.com/news/154180-us-navy-crimea-
charity/](https://www.rt.com/news/154180-us-navy-crimea-charity/)

The headline: "US Navy cancels charity projects in Crimea". According to the
article, the plan was to renovate School #5 in Sevastopol; the US Navy had
already paid for the renovation of School #22 in Sevastopol and School #14 in
Simferopol. The RT article states that "Russian media and bloggers suspect the
programs were meant to butter up locals for a possible US settlement there."
But it doesn't suggest that US troops would be posted there; the only US
military "presence" would be a commemorative plaque on the renovated building.

------
alva
I am so disappointed with our Western media and their complicity in shadowy
anti-Russia propaganda. I know that Russia has many faults, but over the last
few years we have been drip fed so many negative stories about Russia it is
crazy. It really feels like we are being mentally prepared for a war that
Russia (and most of our own public!) obviously does not want. I find this
terrifying.

Look at the actions of the US and NATO in regard to military drills, troop
reinforcement and the number of bases and missiles they have pointed at
Russia. What is going on? In the UK every month or so we are given stories
about Russian aggression and the existential threat they pose to the West.
When you start digging into these stories, this stance is not justified in
facts.

~~~
thedevil
You should read Russian news. Every single day, military propaganda in the
headlines. Every single day, anti-EU, anti-NATO, anti-US propaganda in the
headlines.

Seriously, google a Russian news source. On their page, you'll see tanks and
soldiers and fighter jets. And you'll see stories about how the west is evil
and how the west is collapsing and hints that Russia needs a military buildup.
And you might see a hint that eastern Europe is really Russian property
"stolen" from Russia by NATO and that the anti-Russian sentiment is just the
locals being "ungrateful" to Russia.

Now look at Google News. How much military do you see? How many stories about
Russia? How many supporting military buildup? We care more about the
Kardashians than we do about Putin.

This largely one-sided cold war has been going on for more than a decade.

~~~
Gedrovits
Maybe you've not read the western news, do you? Every piece of it filled with
fear of Russian, people get thrown shit without any proofs of aggression or
anything else. Just to put more NATO (read: US) bases in the world close to
Russian borders.

If you think that this is "good", and Russia response is "bad", then you
deserve everything what will happen because of that US politics.

~~~
knowaveragejoe
Did you willfully ignore what the person you're responding to said? Russian
news is largely constructing an alternate reality where facts don't matter,
and it appears it's even working on those outside the country to some extent
if your comment is any indication. Go visit some Russian news sources and look
around.

Here's an example of what's been going on:

>Take Novorossiya, the name Vladimir Putin has given to the huge wedge of
southeastern Ukraine he might, or might not, consider annexing. The term is
plucked from tsarist history, when it represented a different geographical
space. Nobody who lives in that part of the world today ever thought of
themselves as living in Novorossiya and bearing allegiance to it—at least
until several months ago. Now, Novorossiya is being imagined into being:
Russian media are showing maps of its ‘geography,’ while Kremlin-backed
politicians are writing its ‘history’ into school textbooks. There’s a flag
and even a news agency (in English and Russian). There are several Twitter
feeds. It’s like something out of a Borges story—except for the very real
casualties of the war conducted in its name.

[http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/09/rus...](http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/09/russia-
putin-revolutionizing-information-warfare/379880/)

~~~
Gedrovits
Ukraine is now US project, so don't even start the "annexing" shit. Because
this is what did the US there.

~~~
activis
Ukraine is sovereign unitary nation. Only brainwashed with russian propaganda
can say that some country or nation is no more then someones project and
putting war on it means nothing.

It's about people and there will to be protected against crazy militant
russians with stalin and putin in their minds.

------
Animats
This is getting scary. So far, Russia has bitten off a piece of Georgia, wiped
out Georgia's navy, taken Crimea, wiped out Ukraine's navy, and has an ongoing
war with Ukraine. And they got away with all of it.

Ukraine thought it had a security guarantee from the US and the UK.[1] That's
why they gave up the nuclear weapons they had left over from their USSR days.
When the crunch came, they weren't defended by the US and the UK.

So far, Russia hasn't attacked a NATO member country. So far.

This could lead to WWIII.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Securit...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances)

~~~
Gedrovits
Should we start what US taken on the East and how many countries invaded and
annexed?

Maybe you're blind not to see that US makes Cuban crisis but in the whole
World scale. And those small countries are just pawns which will be 'taken' in
the big game.

The more anti-missile systems they put in the Europe, the less chance they
will be hit by nukes, but nobody talks about the fate of those Europe
countries.

It's the latest US way of dealing with countries growing better or in the same
pace as they. They use the tactic of "color revolutions", it worked in many
other countries before, so why not use that until the war happens, yea?

Let's build the TODO list of owning other country:

1) Choose any country you are interested in (not the big ones of course, they
can hit you, you don't want that) 2) Send your military advisors and boxes of
money to support "opposition" of let's say few thousands people (which is a
less than 1% of population) 3) Make them start "peaceful protests" in capital
and actively cover all those events in media, showing only one side of "tyrant
leader" 4) When legal forces of country will start preventing that, call them
tyranny and prevent and use sanctions and fear to prevent or even easier,
start bombing them util all loyal forces remain (with NATO forces and US
allies) 5) Collect your profits, put your own people in government, collect
resources and plant military bases in the region. If non 1% of population
starts to protest, just use military and police to make them suffer.

This worked in Iraq, Syria, Turkey and Ukraine.

~~~
activis
It's your personal ravings about "US owns Ukraine". Ukraine is sovereign
nation despite russia which constantly tries to destabilize, detroy and "own"
it.

I am disgusted to read this crazy russian delirium.

------
plandis
So it's propaganda that Russia just took land Ukraine, is it? Russia has built
little trust with the western world and unfortunately you reap what you sow.

~~~
jdimov10
Russia took what it could - it would be stupid not to. Hardly a sign of
aggression. More a sign of abysmal western political and military incompetence
and lack of purpose / direction.

~~~
pavlov
Russia took Crimea because "it could". United States could annex British
Columbia if it wanted to. Wouldn't that be aggression?

~~~
jdimov10
Yea, good luck with that :)

But if it really could, you bet your ass it would!

~~~
pavlov
World politics is not a game of Risk. You don't just throw the dice against
the other guys every turn and see what you can grab, like Putin seems to be
doing.

~~~
meddlepal
Putin's doing it because he realizes he is not going to be challenged. He is
basically demonstrating the western military powers are all show.

------
jdimov10
Just to clarify my comments here. I'm not in any way suggesting that Putin is
an angel. He (personally) is a thug, a thieve, a liar and a murderer. His
government reflects all of this.

Yet I have FAR more respect for him than for ANY western politician. Putin is
transparent. He goes after what he wants in an unapologetic way. It is very
easy to see right through everything that he does and is also quite
predictable.

Western politicians, on the other hand, seem UTTERLY clueless, impotent and
chaotic. They are weak in a way that is repulsive.

And no, lining up untold billions of dollars of military equipment alongside
Russia's border is NOT a show of strength. It is the opposite.

~~~
activis
Putin is lining up untold billions of dollars of military equipment not
alongside Russia's border but outside like in Ukraine.

------
mb_72
Cue invasion of the Putin-sponsored posters or raging Russian patriots in 3 2
1 ... Russians are fed, and very often believe, a state-sponsored reality that
blames the West for internal problems.

~~~
knowaveragejoe
Oh, they've been here the entire time. Some of the first posts were obvious
pro-Russian garbage.

------
DenisM
I don't think discussion is turning out constructive. For one thing no one is
actually discussing the contents of the article.

It should really be nuked from the orbit. dang?

~~~
zzzcpan
Troll army accounts are the ones causing the problem, not the article itself.
It happens a lot on these kind of topics.

------
jdimov10
Does NATO actually do anything useful these days, other than frantically freak
out about Russia?

------
ivanb
This propaganda piece doesn't belong on Hacker News.

------
activis
Russia has annexed Crimea. ANNEXED!

Russian tanks, grads and soldiers are killing people in Ukraine every day This
cannot have any excuses.

Your logic makes me feel disgust.

~~~
asavinov
> Russia has annexed Crimea. ANNEXED!

Afaik, that was a decision of the people who live in Crimea on the referendum.
It is like Brexit or referendum in Scotland. For example, now UK leaves EC, so
in the same way Crimea has left Ukrain. It is how democracy works.

~~~
activis
1\. Does it look like legitimate "referendum" to you?
[http://pda.pravo.ru/store/doc/image/20160316120226.jpg](http://pda.pravo.ru/store/doc/image/20160316120226.jpg)

2\. Constitution of Ukraine states that only citizens of whole country and not
locals can decide such questions, _ANY_ local referendum regarding sovereignty
is illegal.

So NO IT IS NOT LIKE BREXIT or referendum in Scotland. Ukraine is unitary
country.

So it is how russian troops work not democracy.

