
91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018) - adrian_mrd
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2017/07/plastic-produced-recycling-waste-ocean-trash-debris-environment/
======
DoingIsLearning
The Plastic recycling process as a whole is an incredibly succesful cost
externalization for the petro-chemical and packaging industries.

Governments and consumers need to get serious with these lobbies:

\- Ban ALL single-use plastic (except for medical supplies).

\- Heavily tax plastic packaging

\- Tax breaks for glass and paper packaging

\- Force plastic return deposit schemes at supermarkets _payed for by
manufacturers_

\- Define industry quotas for how much 'new' plastic is allowed to be made
from crude and make companies bid for it in a "new plastic" market, this would
enable buy in from petro-chemical businesses whose profit currently depends on
volume.

Yes, product prices will increase but the reality is that the price is already
there but is just currently hidden behind the recycling PR machine.

None of this requires ocean micro plastic cleaning tech, or plastic separating
computer vision, it is purely political it is purely stopping this
protectionism. It can change right now if people are outraged enough.

~~~
makecheck
I’m not against these ideas but you do have to zoom out a bit to fully realize
the impact of each alternative. It’s not as simple as replacing a “bad” one
with a “good” one, because there are side effects.

(I haven’t added up the total impacts of every option either; this is just
something to consider.)

For example, glass is much heavier than the plastic used for bottles. If you
have trucks/etc. hauling _millions_ of bottles around the world, it will take
more energy to move glass bottles. Glass is also fragile so it’s possible
there is more shipping material or more random losses affecting cost. So then
the problem is not just how to replace plastic bottles with glass but how to
offset the added environmental cost of transporting glass.

~~~
DoingIsLearning
All the cost/energy benefits listed are exactly the type of short term
business arguments that enabled companies like Coca-Cola to transition from
glass bootles to producing 110 _billion_ PET bootles, every, single, year. [0]

There are a number of long-term costs not captured in these business
decisions:

\- The energy cost of recycling a PET bottle is much greater than producing a
brand new one from crude oil. This creates the wrong kind of incentives for
recycling

\- Plastic degrades everytime it is recycled. Google plastic "downcycling". In
an ideal circular economy old plastics would still have to be replaced with
"new" crude oil plastic with additional energy and emissions costs.

\- The cost of plastic collection and _sorting_ (which manufacturers aren't
paying for)

\- The environmental and disposal costs of unrecycled plastic, a PET bottle
will take at least 450 years to fully decompose. [1]

\- The Health costs of the calamity of micro-plastics contaminating our food
supply and ground water. Simply google "plastic endocrine disruptors".

[0] [https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/02/coca-
col...](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/02/coca-cola-
increased-its-production-of-plastic-bottles-by-a-billion-last-year-say-
greenpeace)

[1]
[https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/08/plast...](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/08/plastic-
bottles/)

~~~
wcoenen
> _Simply google "plastic endocrine disruptors"_

I did, and found that the 1996 paper that helped launch the movement against
endocrine disruptors, was retracted in 2001 because the data was made up.

[https://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/notice-files/NOT-
OD-02-0...](https://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/notice-files/NOT-
OD-02-003.html)

(I'm not making any claim here about whether endocrine disruptors in our
environment are a problem or not. Maybe they are. But I don't like to be told
"just Google X" because that can be used to support any nonsense nowadays.
Just give me a good reference and I'll try to figure out whether it's
credible.)

~~~
DoingIsLearning
Fair point, I assumed this to be a matter-of-fact but I add more info below.

Evidence on the health effects of Bisphenol and Pthalates (commonly used
chemicals in plastics):

\- Influence in hormone dependent types of cancer
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31471387/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31471387/)

\- Influence in Cardiovascular disease
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32438096/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32438096/)

\- Influence in Female and male fertility
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31238688/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31238688/)
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32046352/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32046352/)

\- Cofactor in Diabetes:
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31286379/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31286379/)

~~~
wcoenen
I think I owe you an apology for my snarky comment. I shouldn't start fact
checking before my first coffee in the morning...

------
chubot
I still don't get how bottled water became a thing. It wasn't a thing when I
was a kid, and somehow the industry convinced us to buy huge quantities of an
inferior product for more money, and it pollutes the environment to boot.
Insane.

The least you can do is use a refillable container.

10+ years ago Google switched from bottle water to giving everyone a
container. And that was a great move. Yet people complained, and a few years
later we were back to bottled water.

What a waste.

~~~
AnotherGoodName
A thought exercise: Sugary bottled drinks are even worse for the environment.
They not only have the same bottles and water involved but they also have
other ingredients that add even more environmental consequences. They have
public health consequences too.

But of course to ban sugary drinks would cut into the realm of personal choice
right? After all people may choose to want a sugary beverage. So no one argues
that case.

Still it's weird to draw the line at bottled water and not further along. I
used to live near a council area (Manly City Council) that banned bottled
water. It meant you could only buy sugary drinks at the local corner store. Go
to the beach and forget your water bottle? You better like Coca-Cola because
that's all they'll sell you!

I'm not opposed to encouraging people to use a re-usable container. But i am
opposed to a ban on something that's far better than the alternatives that
remain unbanned.

~~~
pathseeker
Drink water out of the tap like a civilized person.

~~~
lm28469
I had people visiting from Greece, Poland and Spain asking me if my tap water
(Berlin) was safe to drink. You don't have to go to uncivilized parts of the
world to get bad tap water.

~~~
lightgreen
There are different levels of "safe".

For example, in London it's "safe" to drink tap water, it does not contain
toxic checmicals of bacteria, but it is calcium rich, and drinking it
constantly may be harmful for kidneys.

~~~
liability
That's what water softeners are for.

------
idoubtit
Since no one comments on the precise content of the article, I'll do it.

First of all, it's mostly based on a paper "published Wednesday in the peer-
reviewed journal Science Advances". Unfortunately, there is no link to the
article. The exact title is not even given. The date is unclear since the
magazine published this in 2017 and updated some (undetermined) content in
2018. Most links are dead (home page of the lead author, web site of an
association about statistics).

The basis is scientific, but this National Geographic article is not. For
instance, the title is misleading: "91% of plastic isn't recycled" means "an
estimated 91% of all the plastic ever produced has not been recycled as of
today (2017)". Another dubious sentence is: "79 percent is accumulating in
landfills or sloughing off in the natural environment as litter." Since 12%
were incinerated and 9% recycled, it assumes that the rest (100-12-9) is just
garbage. I suppose the reality is that a large proportion of the plastics
produced is still used.

They mention that 40% of plastics are for packaging. According to
PlasticsEurope, 20% for construction, 10% for vehicles. People often focus on
packaging and forget the variety of plastics and their usages.

What surprised me was that the USA were so bad at recycling (9%) while Europe
and Asia were far better (30% and 25%). I had read that some American soda
producers were mostly using recycled PET, so I wondered if there was a
contradiction. I've just read more about it, and these companies recycle in
many countries but not much in the USA because there is no large-scale
infrastructure to do so. The lack of national leadership means it can only
exist locally, with varying quality and lack of long term committing. Even
when the recycling exists, consumers in the USA do not behave as well as they
do in Netherland, so the recycled PET is more costly with a lower quality.

~~~
pixl97
>What surprised me was that the USA were so bad at recycling

No, you can thank the coca cola corporation for that. They have lobbied
millions, along with the groceries associations to prevent things like bottle
deposits to make recycling more common. Google it, plenty of information out
there on the topic.

------
ProAm
There is an excellent Planet Money podcast about this from NPR [1]

[1] [https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/912150085/waste-
land](https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/912150085/waste-land)

------
narwally
This is for glass recycling not plastic, but I recently found out that my
county ships all of their glass recyclables to be dumped in a landfill of a
neighboring state. In my state, waste disposal companies are legally obligated
to recycle everything they can that ends up in a recycling bin. But with glass
it's actually vastly cheaper to produce new glass bottles than it is to make
them out of recycled material. So there isn't a market for the waste
management companies to even sell the product they legally have to produce. To
get around this regulation they just ship their recycled glass to a state
without this regulation, and dump it all in a landfill there.

It seems like the only way to make recycling truly effective at a large scale
is to make it economically viable, either through the creating of new
recycling techniques that make using recycled materials the cheapest option,
or through subsidies to artificially produce the same effect.

~~~
lotsofpulp
>It seems like the only way to make recycling truly effective at a large scale
is to make it economically viable

I think it's easier and less corruptible to have the goal be to reduce the
consumption causing the waste and attack the problem at the root. I.e. a tax
increasing the cost of everything to reflect the cost of properly disposing
it.

Recycling doesn't undo the environmental damage, and in many cases it takes
huge amounts of energy to recycle causing even more damage.

~~~
wolco
Doesn't this hurt the poor while enabling the rich to continue being wasteful.

~~~
lotsofpulp
It solves the problem of excess consumption by humans as a whole. If this
creates a new problem, such as allowing some humans consume disproportionately
more than others, then that can be solved separately. The easiest and least
corruptible solution that comes to mind there is wealth redistribution.

------
noxer
PENN & TELLER: BULLSHIT S02EP05 Recycling
[https://www.bitchute.com/video/j0Hd6UfA4MKo/](https://www.bitchute.com/video/j0Hd6UfA4MKo/)
Yes its old but not much has changed.

~~~
ZeroGravitas
And here's their equally scientifically accurate take on climate change from
the same time period.

[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fWt2Rir8OQk](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fWt2Rir8OQk)

Big fan of both Penn and Teller but libertarian bullshit is still bullshit and
they proved that even smart people fall for it if they hang in the wrong
circles too much.

~~~
waterhouse
Did we watch the same video?

"Every tingly spidey sense, every sniff, every whiff, smells like global
warming—which they now call climate change, in case they want to go the other
way and say it's colder—but it just _reeks_ of fuckin' bullshit to me. And
yet, in good conscience, we can't really come out and say it's bullshit,
because there isn't enough information to really refute it completely. And
there is _some_ information that it might be real.

So—the high-dea is not to go with your gut, the idea is to go with your head,
and our heads can't say that global warming is complete and utter bullshit. So
we're doing—again, this is like our third show that's kind of sort of on
global warming—we're kind of picking out one area that we're sure is bullshit,
and that is the carbon credits, the spending money so that your guilt goes
away. Buying a forgiveness."

I see _proper_ intellectual restraint about the science, and criticism of one
particular policy proposal.

~~~
ZeroGravitas
No you don't.

Just replace climate change with another established scientific fact that you
actually agree with, like the earth being a globe perhaps, and you'll see what
you sound like to people outside your bubble.

> "Every tingly spidey sense, every sniff, every whiff, smells like global
> earth—which they now call non-flat earth, in case they want to go the other
> way and say it's a pyramid or banana-shape—but it just reeks of fuckin'
> bullshit to me.

> And yet, in good conscience, we can't really come out and say it's bullshit,
> because there isn't enough information to really refute it completely. And
> there is some information that it might be real.

> So—the high-dea is not to go with your gut, the idea is to go with your
> head, and our heads can't say that the spherical earth is complete and utter
> bullshit. So we're doing—again, this is like our third show that's kind of
> sort of on global shape—we're kind of picking out one area that we're sure
> is bullshit, and that is the funding for satellites, which would only make
> sense if the earth was a globe. What a waste of money. Millions down the
> drain!

Says a lot about Libertarian ideas that the one thing they attack is using
market mechanisms to address the problem. Clearly principles get trumped by
fossil fuel funding.

~~~
waterhouse
I would actually have serious respect for someone who is in such an
intellectually impoverished environment that they think the world is flat,
_yet_ they have the intellectual humility to say they're not totally sure.

The video doesn't actually say _what_ Penn's objections to carbon credits are.
Googling a bit, Wiki's episode summary for "Being Green" says: "Attacks the
concept of carbon credits as a method of profiting off guilt, and compares
them to indulgences"—well, is he wrong? I also see comments indicating that he
says Al Gore buys carbon credits from a company he owns, which sounds at least
like an "appearance of impropriety" which Gore maybe should have avoided.

> Clearly principles get trumped by fossil fuel funding.

Do you _really_ think Penn got funding from fossil fuel companies and ... The
steelman is that fossil fuel companies have paid _unscrupulous_ individuals in
think tanks that libertarians subscribe to, to write mendacious reports that
libertarians believe. That's possible. I wonder if any other group has been
fooled by mendacious reports.

I wonder what the best strategy is for defeating mendacious reports in
general. Perhaps encouraging everyone engaged in a scientific debate to be as
scrupulously honest and precise as they can be—and to recognize dishonest
tactics. A failure mode in that is seeing dishonest tactics where none exist,
so perhaps one can (encourage everyone to) adopt practices that make it easier
for everyone to tell the difference. Things like publishing all raw data,
preregistering experiments, and offering rewards for neutral parties to
reproduce an experiment, seem helpful.

------
dang
Threads about recycling have started to pile up just like the recycling has. A
list of the major ones is below (but only with "recycl" in the title—if you
find more, let me know!)

Given the current picture, perhaps most interesting in retrospect is this 1996
article (which apparently set a record for hate mail) and its sequel from
2015:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9757853](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9757853)
Recycling is Garbage (1996) (55 comments) -
[https://archive.is/JKG7y](https://archive.is/JKG7y)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10327585](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10327585)
The Reign of Recycling (34 comments) -
[https://archive.is/o8LBm](https://archive.is/o8LBm)

\---

2020
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24454067](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24454067)
Oil Companies Touted Recycling to Sell More Plastic (232 comments)

2020
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24441979](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24441979)
How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled (310
comments)

2020
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24440516](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24440516)
Pringles tube tries to wake from 'recycling nightmare' (394 comments)

2020
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23040674](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23040674)
Plastics pile up as coronavirus hits Asia recyclers (19 comments)

2020
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22927072](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22927072)
'Horrible hybrids': the plastic products that give recyclers nightmares (40
comments)

2020
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22741635](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22741635)
Industry spent millions selling recycling, to sell more plastic (105 comments)

2020
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22467015](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22467015)
Coke and Pepsi are getting sued for lying about recycling (170 comments)

2020
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22318165](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22318165)
Is Recycling a Waste of Time? (94 comments)

2019
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21837414](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21837414)
Recycling Rethink: What to Do with Trash Now China Won’t Take It (152
comments)

2019
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21742196](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21742196)
The Great Recycling Con [video] (77 comments)

2019
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21303618](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21303618)
How Coca-Cola Undermines Plastic Recycling Efforts (132 comments)

2019
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21297639](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21297639)
All plastic waste could be recycled into new plastic: researchers (150
comments)

2019
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21102560](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21102560)
We asked three companies to recycle plastic and only one did (64 comments)

2019
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21043986](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21043986)
Exposing the Myth of Plastic Recycling (17 comments)

2019
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20762789](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20762789)
Plastics: What's Recyclable, What Becomes Trash and Why (215 comments)

2019
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20728911](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20728911)
Smart plastic incineration posited as solution to global recycling crisis (84
comments)

2019
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20726689](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20726689)
'Plastic recycling is a myth': what really happens to your rubbish (63
comments)

2019
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20549804](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20549804)
Americans' plastic recycling is dumped in landfills (282 comments)

2019
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20433851](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20433851)
Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated (336 comments)

2019
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20134641](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20134641)
I work in the environmental movement. I don’t care if you recycle (15
comments)

2019
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19889365](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19889365)
Why Recycling Doesn't Work (216 comments)

2019
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19844551](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19844551)
Reycling Plastic from the Inside Out (46 comments)

2019
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19799348](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19799348)
Bikes, bowling balls, and the balancing act that is modern recycling (2015)
(35 comments)

2019
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19728391](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19728391)
Just 10% of U.S. plastic gets recycled. A new kind of plastic could change
that (116 comments)

2019
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19483074](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19483074)
America Finally Admits Recycling Doesn’t Work (35 comments)

2019
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19399543](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19399543)
The World's Recycling Is in Chaos. Here's What Has to Happen (25 comments)

2019
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19346342](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19346342)
What Happens Now That China Won't Take U.S. Recycling (219 comments)

2019
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18893252](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18893252)
The Era of Easy Recycling May Be Coming to an End (84 comments)

2018
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17841584](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17841584)
Recycling in the United States is in serious trouble. How does it work? (94
comments)

2018
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17677698](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17677698)
Trash piles up in US as China closes door to recycling (272 comments)

2018
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17495872](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17495872)
Californians love to recycle, but it's no longer doing any good (14 comments)

2018
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17409152](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17409152)
Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve (441 comments)

2018
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16856246](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16856246)
An enzyme that digests plastic could boost recycling (122 comments)

2018
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16174719](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16174719)
Plastics Pile Up as China Refuses to Take the West’s Recycling (71 comments)

2017
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15888827](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15888827)
Recycling Chaos in U.S. As China Bans 'Foreign Waste' (233 comments)

2017
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15528740](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15528740)
China Bans Foreign Waste – What Will Happen to the World's Recycling? (63
comments)

2016
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11083898](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11083898)
Is it time to rethink recycling? (147 comments)

2015
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10327585](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10327585)
The Reign of Recycling (34 comments)

2015
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9757853](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9757853)
Recycling is Garbage (1996) (55 comments)

2014
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7778956](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7778956)
Is Recycling Worth It? (13 comments)

2010
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1186666](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1186666)
Recycling is Bullshit; Make Nov. 15 Zero Waste Day, not America Recycles Day
(18 comments)

2009
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=937097](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=937097)
The Recycling Myth (36 comments)

~~~
oblio
Very useful, I'm favoriting this to use for future discussions :-) Thanks!

------
hinkley
Method started out as a stealthily eco-friendly company, and when they first
introduced refills for their products they did not make the container
recyclable but did a big defense of that.

They claimed recycling of plastic loses a large fraction of the input as
waste, and recyclables/recycled materials have to be bulkier. They could make
a very thin nonrecyclable package that had less plastic than the unrecoverable
fraction of a recyclable alternative, and reduce shipping costs/footprint in
the process. So sometimes less of a bad thing is better than more of a
mediocre thing.

They have since marked that packaging as recyclable, so I don’t know whether
they found a workaround or are participating in the recycling mythos now.

------
hristov
As I have said before the solution is compostable plastic. It solves the
problem with the smallest net change in behavior of the affected parties.

As we have regrettably seen with the coronavirus changing the behavior of
large populations is incredibly difficult even if there are dire repercussions
for failure to change.

The cost of compostable plastic is slightly higher than the usual plastic, so
the governments will have to enforce its use, but it will be a small price to
pay for removing the externalities of dealing with actual plastic waste.

~~~
ars
I disagree. The solution is burning plastic for energy.

You get to use the oil from the ground twice: Once as plastic, and again for
energy. It's a win/win since you reduce oil you burn and get rid of plastic
waste.

~~~
hristov
Have you ever burned ordinary plastic? The smell is horrific, there are some
truly nasty poisons being released.

Furthermore, compostable plastics will solve the biggest problem of plastic
pollution -- the a-hole that just tosses plastic garbage in the ground because
he/she doesn't give a damn. Compostable plastics compost much faster in proper
municipal/industrial composting facilities, so it is still important to throw
the stuff away in compost bins and to have regular pickup service, but they
will compost in the environment too. Thus, there is some defense against the
morons that just litter.

In other words, compostable plastics fail better than all the other choices.

~~~
ars
> Have you ever burned ordinary plastic? The smell is horrific, there are some
> truly nasty poisons being released.

Only if you don't use enough oxygen. Except for PVC plastic does not have any
bad atoms in it, if fully burned the exhaust is completely safe (it's just
water and CO2).

A proper, hot, incinerator will burn plastic very safely.

------
diggan
Fitting, I just started looking into reusing plastic myself by collecting
plastic from my own, family and friends trash and remoulding it into something
useful. In my quest for this, I found Precious Plastic, an amazing community
around recycling plastics yourself and for your community.
[https://preciousplastic.com/](https://preciousplastic.com/)

While individuals plastic pollution is not the biggest emitter of plastic here
in the world, we can always take small steps towards making sure we don't
throw as much plastic as we currently do.

~~~
cheshireoctopus
This is REALLY cool.

How can I meet people around me who have already setup a collection point, a
community point, or a machine shop?

Do you have an onboarding guide for beginners who are looking for low-effort
ways to explore what you are doing?

~~~
diggan
I don't want to give the impression I'm part of the Precious Plastic Community
(yet at least) as I'm only playing around.

However, here are some resources for getting started locally:

\- Map of all the workshops registered on PP -
[https://community.preciousplastic.com/map](https://community.preciousplastic.com/map)

\- Events that are being organized all around the world -
[https://community.preciousplastic.com/events](https://community.preciousplastic.com/events)

\- Onboarding guide, read from top to bottom, includes some videos as well,
great for getting started -
[https://community.preciousplastic.com/academy/intro](https://community.preciousplastic.com/academy/intro)

\- And the most helpful, PPs Discord community, tons of channels and even more
people, usually very responsive and very diverse -
[https://discordapp.com/invite/cGZ5hKP](https://discordapp.com/invite/cGZ5hKP)

------
ccktlmazeltov
People are so into recycling, but I fail to see how I can make a difference by
recycling. It just seems like the problem is too massive at this point.

~~~
Mvhsz
Don't let plastic recycling get you down, recycling aluminum is a great way to
help the environment. Paper and cardboard are also good. Glass is just ok.
Reduce your consumption where possible, and make sure that non-recycleable
materials make it to a landfill where the environmental impacts are contained.
Our individual efforts have a small impact, but it's a small effort and it
does matter.

While there are some uses for recycled plastics, I fear that we'll likely
continue to see a lot of single-use plastics until some economic force makes
plastic unprofitable. Maybe public anger drives new regulation, maybe we use
up all the oil, maybe we ween off of oil and it's too expensive to pump oil
just to make plastics. In any case, I think we need to embrace some short and
medium term solutions to mitigate environmental damage from single-use
plastic.

~~~
phobosanomaly
Maybe if there was a simple setup to convert recyclable plastic into
3D-printing filament?

------
dgellow
Germany has some recycling plants with modern sorting machines, almost
entirely automated, it’s quite impressive to see it working.

[https://youtu.be/I_fUpP-hq3A](https://youtu.be/I_fUpP-hq3A)

I was checking for details a few days ago, they announce on their website 53%
of their input recycled, and 47% used for “energy recovery” (which is newspeak
to say they burn it for the cement and steel industry).

I was surprised by the fact that they burn so much but 47% is apparently
considered very good.

~~~
thescriptkiddie
Burning plastic in a modern (read: clean) incinerator is probably the best
thing to do with it at this point. It's certainly better than burying it in a
landfill. Of course, it would be better to just not make it in the first
place.

~~~
dgellow
Yes, that’s what I read. It still feels dirty and counter intuitive IMHO, but
I get that by doing so they can avoid using even more fossil fuel.

Regarding the German system, they could really improve the percentage of
recycled plastic trash by using more explicit bins, you currently have one
single yellow bin for anything recyclable instead of one for PET, one or
aluminum, etc. Because of this it is always a bit difficult to know what is
supposed to go or not in the bin, and people just put everything they think is
plastic.

------
aNoob7000
Listen to the latest episode of Planet Money.

[https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510289/planet-
money](https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510289/planet-money)

~~~
scottndecker
This. Most plastics can't be recycled; it was a PR play by the plastic
industry decades ago. Using plastics for such things as medical devices and
such makes complete sense to me. Using plastics for items which inherently are
only used for a few minutes or an hour (see the F&B industry) makes no sense
at all to me.

~~~
chmod600
"Using plastics for items which inherently are only used for a few minutes or
an hour"

Of course it makes sense. Plastic is cheap, light, watertight, strong, and
mallable.

It's kind of a miracle material, except that it's too stable. If we had a
version that decomposed in a year, it would be awesome.

~~~
hadlock
Compostable "plastics", e.g. PLA, which sometimes is corn-based, exist; in
California I've seen compostable disposable silverware, as well as compostable
decorative planters (I own two, holding up good after three years, which makes
me wonder how compostable they really are). But compostable "plastics" do
exist, at least in some markets.

~~~
joelhoffman
Surely the companies that print the symbol and "Please recycle!" on non-
recyclable plastic wouldn't label non-compostable silverware as compostable...

I've successfully run "compostable" plastic through the dishwasher several
times and haven't seen any sign of decay. The county I live in offers
composting service and begs people to please not put "compostable" plastic in
it.

------
vaccinator
I pretty much stopped using my recycling bins... except for aluminum.

~~~
thescriptkiddie
Steel, unbroken glass bottles, and _clean_ paper/cardboard are actually
recycled at most municipal recycling centers as well.

~~~
vaccinator
but is it worth it, energy wise (or for any other reason)?

------
L-four
My idea is that retailers should have to pay for the collection and recycling
of any waste created by the products they sell. Thus creating an insensitive
to retailers to stock products with cheap collection and easy recyclability.

------
hosh
I knew that plastic recycling were not as big but I did not know it was 91%.

I started looking up stuff like this: [https://leapsmag.com/plastic-eating-
mushrooms-let-you-have-y...](https://leapsmag.com/plastic-eating-mushrooms-
let-you-have-your-trash-and-eat-it-too/)

I mean, if the corporate community won't do what they say, then I'm going to
look for a practical way to do this locally, onsite.

------
pfdietz
Plastic shouldn't be recycled. It should be burned. It's a compact store of
energy, and that energy can be recovered and used, even if plastic cannot be
easily reused as a material.

Waste handling should focus on making plastics cleanly combustible and keeping
problematic materials (like, toxic heavy metals) from being mixed with them in
the waste stream.

------
vinhboy
I don't really understand why recycling plastic is not viable. I feel like
this is more of a problem with ideology than actual process.

For example, I buy these "Green Toys" products that are supposedly made from
recycled plastic and I love it. I have no idea why this recycled plastic is
not used in other kid's toys, kitchenware, or random things like garden tools.
This recycled plastic is tough, it doesn't decay in the sun like regular
plastic. I would pay more for it!

I have actually tried looking for more items made from recycled plastic and it
just doesn't exist.

My conclusion is that people don't like the way it looks, because it's very
rough and the color is different, so there is no market for it. Most people
probably prefer to buy the cheaper, "nicer" looking plastic.

~~~
gruez
>I don't really understand why recycling plastic is not viable. I feel like
this is more of a problem with ideology than actual process. [...] Anyways, if
someone smarter than me tells me the economics doesn't work, I will believe
them, but until then I am skeptical of the idea that we can't properly recycle
plastic.

This comment is baffling. In the beginning you think it's an ideological
issue. Later on you acknowledge that cost might be an issue, but then you move
to goal posts from "plastic is not viable" to "we can't properly recycle
plastic". Cost is absolutely the main issue here, not that it's "not
possible". Even if recycled plastic is substandard compared to virgin plastic,
most consumers can be convinced of otherwise if it's sufficiently cheap
enough.

~~~
vinhboy
You're probably right. My comment was confusing so I edited it to make it more
coherent. I struggle with writing, so I appreciate the feedback to improve it.

However, regarding your comment

> In the beginning you think it's an ideological issue. Later on you
> acknowledge that cost might be an issue

I don't see these as contradictory. Ideology affects what people are willing
to spend. As someone who cares about the environment I don't mind spending
more on recycled plastic to reduce waste. Most of my peers would not spend a
cent more if they don't have to.

~~~
gruez
>I don't see these as contradictory. Ideology affects what people are willing
to spend. As someone who cares about the environment I don't mind spending
more on recycled plastic to reduce waste. Most of my peers would not spend a
cent more if they don't have to.

I disagree with this characterization. Photovoltaic technology in the 70s were
insanely expensive and clearly not economical compared to the alternatives.
There were some environmental enthusiasts who would use it despite the
economic issues, but I wouldn't characterize the lack of adoption in
photovoltaic technology as being an "ideological problem"

------
pstrateman
The vast majority of things people think of as recyclable are actually not.

The result is an endless stream of trash in the recycling stream which makes
the actual recyclables worthless.

------
gl00pp
Honest question for the great minds who hang out here but; why don't we
'harvest' the landfills?

thanks

good-day.

------
benjaminpkane
They should start making yoga pants from recycled plastic, if they don't
already.

It is deeply ironic that many people who advocate for better plastic
consumption, probably own yoga pants, which are made of plastic. Kind of off
topic, but, my point is it is more than just Coca-Cola driving the plastics
industry.

------
mattbeckman
If someone was to Elon Musk the shi* out of this problem, what would they
build or do differently?

My gut is that it would focus on plastic identification automation, but not
positive.

~~~
aforwardslash
They did. The plastics industry sinked millions in campaigns to convince the
people plastics are reclyclable. The only thing missing from being a true Musk
move is that they came up with it themselves, instead of buying off the idea
from someone else.

~~~
mattbeckman
You know that's not what I meant.

Let's chat again when you've executed and launched five unique revolutionary
companies.

~~~
aforwardslash
Executed is not a synonym of "bought". And arguably, none of them is
revolucionary. With a cool $1bn in the bank, you bet I could do better, such
as investing in tech that solves real problems instead of 3rd cathegory sci-fi
adaptations.

