
Bitcoin climbs to $10k - pseudolus
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-22/bitcoin-climbs-to-10-000-as-memories-of-the-crypto-bubble-fade
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janandonly
I lament the recurring fact that “the price” dictates more than anything else
when and even if a news article appears in a mainstream news medium like
Bloomberg.

There is soo much technical development in bitcoin that is _way more_ news-
worthy than what the market happens to be doing today ️

~~~
boybd
What else is there? Bitcoin is an investment, so this is important in the same
way that the price of gold climbing like this would be important.

~~~
elil17
Bitcoin is meant to be a way of completing payments, not an investment. The
use as an investment goes against its primary purpose.

~~~
imtringued
You must be pretty behind the times. Most shops have stopped accepting bitcoin
because of volatility and high transaction fees. Bitcoin thrives as virtual
gold precisely because those two downsides make it useless as a currency.

~~~
pmorici
That's the primary reason the Bitcoin Core / Bitcoin Cash split 2 years ago
now was a difference in opinion about whether or not usage as a payment method
mattered. Now you have two competing camps one is pushing the Bitcoin as egold
and high fees while the other is pushing Bitcoin as a means of exchange with
low fees.

The volatility was solved by the payment processors. In any case the big
payment processors support both now. The higher than credit card fees though
did kill the use of Bitcoin Core as a payment method in ordinary transactions.

------
Bostonian
The central banks of the Eurozone, Switzerland, Sweden, and Japan have set
negative short-term interest rates, and in the U.S., the president has
threatened to demote the chairman of the central bank if he does not cut
interest rates. This may explain increased interest in alternative currencies.

~~~
jshaqaw
And yet there is no inflation. So the currency debasement yielding to
hyperinflation argument which has been running since 2008 remains without any
evidence.

~~~
roboys
There is inflation, it shows itself in asset prices. You are also skipping a
step, the currency debasement and resulting loss of global reserve status
leads to hyperinflation.

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Joe-Z
I'm still not sure what to think about cryptocurrency[0]. I just don't get the
price fluctuations. They seem to be random and not based on any relevant real-
world event. Granted, they list the announcement of Libra as a reason in the
article, but how would that be good for Bitcoin?

[0]and that's coming from someone who owned several bitcoins a few years back
but stupidly used them for buying stuff. It's not as bad as the guy who
ordered a pizza for I think 1 million bucks, but still I'd rather have the
money now...

~~~
loceng
The people gaming the system to increase its "value" have slowly brought the
price up - and they will keep working together (indirectly and directly) to
convince/manipulate/trick consumers into buying into this global,
decentralized Ponzi-Pyramid scheme to further their wealth through
unreasonably redistributing wealth towards earlier adopters - while increasing
the "army of HODLers" who now have vested interested in pushing these
crypto-"currencies." Everyone who's lost money to the earlier adopters are
heavily incentivized to talk positively and promote them so they can attempt
to at minimum break even from their losses - which is the main mechanism as to
why these are so dangerous for society, the incentive and alignment of working
together - to adopt something that has shown little to no value to society;
blockchain is a separate conversation as to its value for society. The "killer
app" that no one seems to have been able to create for society yet seems to
actually be that its structure allows for a Pyramid-Ponzi scheme - and the
people selling the shovels during this modern gold rush seem to be the ones
best capitalizing on the hype and frenzy.

~~~
seibelj
Are you against any asset where visionaries got in early? VCs and wealthy
investors reap the vast majority of rewards when companies like Uber go
public, and let the retail investors hold the bag. I don’t see much of a moral
difference.

~~~
thomasz
Uber is a company that provides a highly useful service. Bitcoin is just a
decentralized long con.

~~~
seibelj
You can make an argument against the asset itself and it’s utility. But parent
was arguing that the fact early adopters captured a majority of the gains
makes Bitcoin evil doesn’t make sense to me. I’m happy that crypto nerds won
this time over the usual suspects of VCs, family funds, etc.

~~~
loceng
What value has Bitcoin et al brought anyone other than earning them "profit"
because they were earlier in the Pyramid-Ponzi scheme - or at a low point
before price went up and sold before the bubble(s) popped?

~~~
seba_dos1
Ok, I'm not a huge fan of the crypto craze, but ignoring providing a solution
to the problem of trust in decentralized networks and implementing a working
payment network on top of that is just a blatant ignorance.

The solution is massively unelegant and unlikely to be worth so much long-term
as markets are predicting now, but it definitely does provide some tangible
value and it's pretty stupid to imply otherwise.

~~~
loceng
Simply asking for what value has Bitcoin et al provided isn't the same as a
statement that states it doesn't cover some areas of value, however pros
existing doesn't necessarily negate the cons - doesn't mean there's a net
benefit to them existing. Ignoring that a solution for 'trust in decentralized
networks' can't be solved in other ways, like normal real-life trust networks,
where people make a decision of who they trust for this vs. having "blind
trust" is in fact blatant ignorance.

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seibelj
Bitcoin is a very good store of wealth when compared to, say, gold. If I was
in a country like Turkey or China I would be moving my wealth into it any way
I could. The government inflates their currencies and locks or seizes bank
accounts. When you want to escape the dictator, you can memorize 24 words and
take your wealth with you over the border. Very hard to keep your gold safe
from guards.

Ignoring all of the other uses of Bitcoin, the “digital gold” argument is the
strongest IMO.

~~~
elil17
How is it better than gold? The primary goal with a store of wealth is price
stability, and gold is way more stable than BTC. BTC is certainly better than
many fiats but it’s still highly unstable. Most people who are buying it are
buying it as an investment, not a store of wealth.

~~~
vvpan
I think the commenter is suggesting that sometimes the mobility of your store
of wealth is more important than volatility. Hard to argue that gold is easy
to move or store. People from the US and Western Europe are prone to forget
how volatile the political and economic situation is for most of Earth's
population.

~~~
elil17
People who use gold as a money store don’t buy physical gold, though. They buy
insured, gold backed securities which are held in a stable location, usually
the United Kingdom. The account that holds those securities is protected by a
password, just like Bitcoin

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heliodor
The second half of that headline is a loaded statement that does not belong in
proper journalism.

~~~
mskvsk
At least, the authors gave away their bias from the get-go.

~~~
Tomte
Journalists do not only report the news, nor should they limit themselves to
that. They also explain, classify and arrange the news, and put them into a
broader context. This is the more interesting, the more difficult and more
valuable part of their job.

Sure, you don't want to read this viewpoint. Great! There are thousands of
cryptocurrency web sites with "proper" news and commentary for you to read.

This article is for people like me.

~~~
heliodor
Once you provide interpretation, you are picking and choosing. That's an easy
vehicle for manipulation of public opinion, and is exactly why so many people
lament the current state of journalism (not that the past was any brighter).

~~~
Tomte
People lament the current state of journalism, because they feel "their
journalists" aren't reputable, but the reputable ones aren't "their
journalists".

There are journalists all across the political spectrum, from the extreme left
to the extreme right. But everybody wants to see his opinion enshrined as
"mainstream" by the New York Times or the Washington Post.

On the one hand, they place enormous value in those papers and their
reputation, but on the other hand these papers only sell worthless
manipulation. Something doesn't compute here.

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msamwald
But why would Libra increase rather than decrease interest in Bitcoin? Is
there any actual rationale?

~~~
atmosx
No, but I always find funny that geeks are so excited about the technology
behind bitcoin but at the same time remain largely clueless about what
currencies are, why so they exist, what is the role of a central bank, how
currency adoption works, etc.

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manojlds
Has broken $11k right now.

~~~
roboys
It will pass $25,000 before the halvening in May 2020.

Increased equipment cost, same electricity cost but half the rewards = a large
value shift.

~~~
usaphp
Why 25? What makes you throw this exact number? Wild guess?

~~~
georgyo
25,000 if we are talking about significant digits is not very precise. Also, I
interpret the 5 to mean between 20 and 30k.

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abledon
This won't affect the price of GPU cards heavily right? Since most of the
mining is done by specialized ASIC boxes now?

~~~
tromp
Bitcoin rising in value tends to pull up many altcoins along with it,
including GPU mineable ones like Ethereum, Monero and Grin.

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ohiovr
Demand for bitcoin comes from ransoms. Entire cities are being extorted so
this affects the price.

