

Objections to TSA's full-body scanners are rising - eplanit
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/28/AR2010042802743.html?wprss=rss_technology

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tptacek
I don't understand why people are OK with electronic strip searches. When they
make these useless machines mandatory, I'll consent to being scanned in them.
Until then, a $15/hour TSA employee who wants to invade my privacy on the
pretense of securing an airplane can at least look me in the eyes while he
does so.

It may be my intimate familiarity with crappy data management and retention
regimes, both in DHS and outside of it, but regardless of how I've acquired
this perception: I have zero faith that TSA can/will protect the data they're
collecting from abuse, misuse, and inadvertent disclosure. The people manning
these checkpoints are simply not adequately trained. _Real law enforcement
officers_ can't handle privacy and data retention. It is unreasonable to
suggest that the TSA could do a better job with more sensitive material.

~~~
warfangle
When they make these useless machines mandatory, I will cease to travel by
air.

~~~
bonsaitree
Here. Here.

I ALWAYS opt for the pat-down and, regretfully, can no longer fly into the UK.
If the trends continue, I'll simply stop flying general aviation in the U.S.
outside of exigent circumstances. Luckily, both the northeast and the pacific
northwest have train service.

Aside from the legal, privacy, and baseline human dignity issues, there's the
very unknowable health risks.

I have a degree in electromagnetics (technically EE) and we know FAR TOO
LITTLE about BOTH the short-term and long-term cellular effects of this
specific kind of radiation exposure.

It's not JUST the raw radiated isentropic power (which IS very low), it's the
specific sets of wavelengths involved, the orientation of the tissues with
respect to the incoming radiation, and the frequency of exposure.

~~~
goatforce5
What happened with the UK?

~~~
bonsaitree
Nothing. It was just recently announced that the full-body scanner machines
will shortly be mandatory for all U.K. international arrivals.

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shelly
I flew through BWI airport a few weeks ago, and saw signs posted in the
security line indicating they're piloting the new full-body imagers.

I wasn't thrilled, to say the least.

I was far less thrilled when I reached into my backpack at the end of a very
long series of flights and realized my swiss army knife had made it through
security, in the mesh side pocket of my carry-on backpack the whole time.

How 'bout the TSA focus on mastering the basics (like, um, finding knives when
they go through the x-ray conveyor belt) before they add new tech with
questionable benefit and high potential for abuse?

~~~
wheels
I keep a Swiss Army knife on my key chain. I fly fairly often, and sometimes I
forget to put it in my checked bag. Post-9/11 I've forgotten 4 times. I've
only had them catch it once.

~~~
chaosmachine
Did you have to buy it back on ebay?

<http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=NTSA>

(These are all NTSA seizures.)

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klochner
They just need better privacy settings, where the default is to make your
scans publicly available on facebook.

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viraptor
Aren't the examples a bit silly? "agents had found such items as a pocket
knife hidden on someone's back and a syringe full of liquid concealed in a
passenger's underwear"

The pocket knife should be detected by the classic metal detector (or are they
implying that these are not working correctly now? (yes I know they aren't)).
The syringe with liquid would be pretty easy to conceal in other ways (or just
taken legally, looking like a diabetes pack) if someone really wanted to do
that.

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CulturalNgineer
Our paranoid idiot government (or, more accurately, "our paranoid idiot
government that believes we're also paranoid idiots just like them)...

has given the idiot terrorists all the tools they need to completely bankrupt
us while obliterating our rights.

All they need to do is find another idiot to blow up his underwear in a movie
theater and then we can have scanners there too!

And then another idiot can do the same in a Wal-mart or whatever... and more
scanners!

What idiot is in control of THIS game?

Note to investment advisors: Invest in idiots! They seem to be having a great
run!

~~~
prodigal_erik
> our paranoid idiot government that believes we're also paranoid idiots just
> like them

Actually I think they're correct about that. The general public doesn't seem
to remember that they're at as much risk from random lightning strikes as from
terrorism, and that the death toll from 9/11 was comparable to traffic
accidents that month.

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kordless
I'd like to know the TSA's success record in detecting threats to our safety.
I'm not talking about some dude with a knife in his pocket, or a drug dealer
with a vial of whatever in his underwear. I'm talking about some guy with the
intent AND the means to do harm to an airplane or a passenger in an airplane.
How many of those type people have the TSA stopped? A Google search returns
very little in the way of results, so I'm lacking data in making a decent
determination on their success/failure rate.

Are we even told about these events, if they occur?

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nfnaaron
Their answer would be that the existence of the TSA security system has
certainly prevented many people from trying in the first place.

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neonfunk
One way they could make it less worrisome for passengers is to have the room
where they view the body scans separate from the room where the scanner is.
From the images I've seen, it doesn't seem like you'd be able to recognize a
person from their body scan -- I suppose unless they had a very, shall we say
"shapely", body.

~~~
sp332
First, it's _way_ creepier, and harder psychologically, to know someone is
watching you if you can't see them.

Second, <http://www.google.com/images?q=TSA+full-body+scan>

~~~
neonfunk
... for you. (I ought to have said, "less worrisome for me."). The thought
that the operator could just look up from their screen, after "looking in my
pants", so to speak, is what feels awkward to me.

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silencio
I was pretty amused when all it took was a feigned-friendly smile (and boobs?)
to some TSA employee at SFO international terminal (flying Virgin America) to
skip the nonexistent line for the full-body scan and just walk through the
metal detector instead.

Although, then, another TSA guy who seemed to have nothing better to do
determined that he wanted to test to see if my contact lens solution was
legit. Happened to ignore the rest of my two baggies filled with liquids and
aerosols though... I feel so much safer now.

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viraptor
Not connected to US really, but does anyone know the current rules for London
airports? There was some talk (in January, I think) about no alternative like
pat down available there. Is that still the case? I couldn't find any official
information about it now.

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jared314
I thought the UK evaluated the full-body scanners and found them ineffective.

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transburgh
I will do a strip search if they can promise me that there is zero chance the
plane wont blow up.

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hugh3
Zero chance the plane _won't_ blow up? Man, I hope I don't wind up on your
next flight.

