

The Danger of iPads in Schools - matt2000
http://matthall2000.tumblr.com/post/40973782626/the-danger-of-ipads-in-schools

======
nemothekid
I don't know how old OP is, but I'm 20 and first computing experience was
graphical - with Windows NT 4.0. My elementary school had Macintosh OS 7/8
(don't remember exactly). However all I can remember doing on these computers
were playing games - AOL Kids, Math Blaster, JumpStart and Zoombinis.

I didn't start programming until I was 13 (out of my own curiosity) and I
wasn't offered any sort of programming classes by my junior year in high
school.

My point is I think for most of us who grew up in the era of graphical
interfaces, computers have always been glorified xboxes. When GUIs were
introduced and we had options like Math Blaster I don't think many of us
actually considered that we could write our own games. In elementary school I
think the bar may be a little too high (not to say it can't be done). That
said, it didn't matter to us that the machines were directly programmable. We
didn't have the resources to create our own MathBlaster and I don't think any
of us would have patience to wrestle with gcc.

I think Codify is a much better tool for teaching programming than a plain
text file would be. Its a lot easier to make a "cool app" from a app that
hides all hard parts of making a game (like a graphics library) than to try
and convince a kid he should mess around in the console.

~~~
matt2000
Interesting - do you remember at all how you first got into programming? How
did you even find out it was an option? And what was the first thing you tried
to make?

BTW, I'm the OP and I'm 38, I started with Logo on Apple II's at the Library,
but I'm wondering if there's something more we should be doing to help kids
get into this stuff.

~~~
nemothekid
My friend and I both got started with Flash. His dad was a graphic designer
and we both knew with Flash you could create games, but we didn't know
anything about programming. However after his dad showed us how to make a
play/replay button, we played with the concept more, and made a Rock Paper
Scissors game. (This was done by animating every possible combination, then
having a "play button" that would jump to a random frame).

We did have to do a lot of Googling (we were only ever shown how to make a
play button), but I don't think its very different from what Codify is trying
to offer. After we had most of the basic programming control structures down
and learned some of Flash's features (ActionScript 1 was very easy to use) we
were off making games.

In hindsight, you are right. Simply having the programming environment to do
whatever we wanted helped us learn. I remember we jumped into networking to
create online versions of our games. However I am not sure if there is a way
to recreate that push - we simply got into it because we spent so much time on
sites like Newgrounds and armor games.

------
woleium
Kids who are inquisitive (future engineers) will still want to take the
devices apart and will find a way to write apps.

You are focusing on the device not the environment. Consider a book, you cant
edit or create with a book but that doesn't inhibit potential authors.

iPads allow (admittedly somewhat limited) creative activities, as well as
supporting a raft of consumer educational software, consoles do not (so much)

edit: In addition, we should trust our educators to determine the best tools
from those available to achieve the desired pedagogical outcomes.

~~~
matt2000
Well put. However, I would argue that we should be attempting to reach the
kids who might not realize they could or would like to be future engineers.
The problem with the book analogy is that it's very obvious how you would make
a book, all the pieces all there in front of you. It's not obvious how you
might make an app for the iPad, none of the requirements are present. When I
show kids how they're made, they're generally amazed.

Finally, I'm not sure we should trust our educators without question, this
stuff changes very quickly and very few of them are programmers. In the 30
years since I've been programming there doesn't seem to be much change in how
programming is taught in schools, so it might be time for a rethink.

~~~
woleium
Agreed, it's a more complex procedure to create an app, but the kudos for
achievement is proportionality higher. It could therefore be argued that there
is a rough balance in terms of motivation (assuming kudos drives motivation).

The fact that educators are not inherently technically adept is precisely why
they need devices that can be reset and redeployed quickly and simply. If you
take into account the attention span of young kids you can see why these
devices have become so popular so quickly.

The target market in this context is a younger age range than the age at which
programming should be introduced to the curriculum (admittedly this a
contentious issue).

I'd argue that the use of iPads in this setting only reinforces the importance
of learning to program when the opportunity present itself. How many of our
peers were put off a possible career in programming as a result of the high
barrier to entry presented by the flashing cursor and a lack of comprehension
of the relevance of writing code? We need a proportionate representation of
all personality types in the programming world to provide the best solutions
for the non-programmers (at least until everyone is a programmer). Maybe this
early exposure will attract people with insights we currently lack to careers
in programming.

~~~
matt2000
This is a great point, I didn't consider how many people got turned off a
computer right from the start because of an unfriendly interface like a basic
prompt.

------
cleverjake
I don't think that a prompt is the reason why kids get interested in computer
programming. If that was the case, we could call this The Danger of Windows 95
in schools.

If anything, the prolifieration of apps makes a lot of programming more
attainable for kids.

Hardward hacking, on the otherhand...

~~~
matt2000
I don't think the prompt itself is the thing, it's the perception that the
machine is under their control. In these kinds of things perceptions seem to
matter a lot, especially to kids.

------
jxdxbx
I have Scheme on my iPad. You can get Python for iPad, too. Not much useful
you can do with them, but useful for learning programming.

But yeah, if you want to write native apps for the iPad you need a Mac and
Xcode. Of course, it's not like people write Android apps on Android very
much.

------
cbhl
I can see the author's argument, but I think there are more fundamental issues
to be dealt with. My high school, for example, discontinued Computer Science
classes altogether due to low enrollment.

~~~
matt2000
This is sheer insanity to me. I just don't understand why comp sci isn't
taught as a fundamental course like math. Do you have a sense why nobody was
enrolling? Was it seen as too hard, too nerdy, something else?

~~~
woleium
I'd say that it's usually because the pace of change in the industry is too
fast for the curriculum to keep up.

Maths courses written in the time of COBOL are still being taught. The only
option is to teach the basic fundamentals, which (without application) makes
for a very dull subject.

