
How Tide Detergent Became a Drug Currency - atestu
http://nymag.com/news/features/tide-detergent-drugs-2013-1/
======
ChuckMcM
Tide as a poor man's bitcoin.

TL;DR version - Laundry Detergent is pretty fungible, everyone needs it, and
its difficult to trace, unscrupulous retailers will buy stolen tide for cash.

This situation provides crooks with a couple of benefits, one they can
separate the money trail for selling drugs, after all who thinks this looks
like a drug buy:

    
    
       Alice goes to grocery gets laundry detergent;
       Bob sells stolen detergent to a grocery for cash.
    

No way to connect Bob and Alice until you add:

    
    
       Alice goes to grocery gets laundry detergent;
       Alice gives Detergent to Bob for drugs.
       Bob sells stolen detergent to a grocery for cash.
    

Now you can connect them and see the drug deal. Hard to get a warrant to
search Bob's car for laundry detergent.

~~~
samstave
I have no idea how to reconcile this scenario.

Can you explain it in more detail?

If alice is buying $100 worth of Tide, how much $drugs does she get for her
$Tide?

How much $cash does Bob get for his $Tide when he sells it back to the store?

How much $Profit does the store get from the $Tide bought from Bob?

~~~
DanBC
Alice steals $100 worth of Tide.

Alice doesn't care how much drugs she gets for that, because shop lifting is
easier than prostitution and has lighter sentencing than robbing houses.

Bob sells his bottles for $5 each. That means the store can either sell at a
big discount for friends, or can make more profit. The margins are not good on
Tide.

This is in the article on page 3.

~~~
samstave
> _Alice doesn't care how much drugs she gets for that_

I think your explanation is wrong.

Alice would _certainly_ care how much she got for $Tide, else she wouldn't see
it as ($).

Bob is the lowest common denomiator here in that Bob must know that he can get
$xY for $Tide from the store... whereas he is going to give minimal value for
$Tide to Alice.

This is not only how Bob $Profits, but also how Bob lays low from the Law.

~~~
DanBC
You think a crack addict is a rational actor?

From the article:

> _While the driver kept the car idling, a heavily tattooed, spiky-haired
> detective named Alexander Mallari jumped out holding a laundry bag filled
> with a few bottles of Tide and lots of bonus items—a dozen pairs of Philips
> earphones, a dozen or so bottles of Victoria’s Secret perfume. Mallari’s
> mission was simple: He’d enter the shop, disclose that the items were
> stolen, and try to unload them._

> _Ten minutes later, Mallari emerged with an empty bag and a small wad of
> money in his pocket. He was offered just $30—a pittance by the standards of
> the Tide trade. “That’s a true crackhead price right there,” Thompson said._

This is the drug that brought us "smurfing" - addicts would earn drugs by
taking very many blister packs of OTC medication and popping the pills out of
the blister packs to be used in making drugs.

Bob fences stolen goods from drug addicts _because the margins are so good_ \-
and the margins are good because drug addicts just want enough money to get
more drugs.

~~~
sk5t
Addicts may be the most rational economic actors of all: each $10 can be a
really, really big deal to an addict, and he will find the most efficient way,
within his limited capabilities, to get it, whether that is smurfing, farming
WoW, stealing copper pipe, etc.

------
nikcub
I grew up in a suburb in Australia that bordered a bad area where crime and
drug dealing were rife, and I went to school with a lot of people from that
area.

The network seemed to always have one product or another that was used as an
informal currency. For years it was the Energizer brand AA battery, then it
became prepaid cell phone minutes after one provider allowed users to send
credit to each other (this was shutdown).

At one period it was Gillette Mach 3 razors, but then stores started putting
them behind the counter so it didn't last long. Cigarettes were always a
quasi-currency, I remember the value going from 20c to 50c, and cigarettes
being exchanged for everything (and some smaller stores selling or buying them
individually).

After I left the school I heard that the market had reverted back to batteries
(there was always a battery market, I don't think I ever purchased batteries
from a store), after a very brief period where the most shoplifted items in
the local supermarket were cuts of meat and meat trays[0].

What these items all have in common is that they can be shoplifted from large
supermarkets easily, are portable, easy to store, have a long shelf life
(well, not the meat) and are essential household purchases even in poor
neighborhoods.

I find interesting that even if you aren't involved directly in the drug
trading, you are taking part in the surrounding economy by purchasing or
exchanging these goods. I never bought drugs but my friends and I were always
buying and trading these goods. I assumed that they would always end up back
with the drug dealers somehow, who would find a way to convert them back to
cash.

[0] Apparently this is an issue again in Australia - "GROCERY prices are
rising because organised crime gangs are stealing hundreds of millions of
dollars worth of meat" - [http://www.news.com.au/national/organised-gangs-
targets-meat...](http://www.news.com.au/national/organised-gangs-targets-meat-
trays-at-grocers/story-fndo4dzn-1226488477632)

Edit: an interesting related article from Forbes that came up in my Google
search - "Why do people steal meat from grocery stores?", goes into the
economics and details of shoplifting and is US-centric:
[http://www.forbes.com/sites/larissafaw/2012/12/24/why-do-
peo...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/larissafaw/2012/12/24/why-do-people-steal-
meat-from-grocery-stores/)

------
Cogito
The primary reason for using detergent as a currency, beyond the fact that the
market for stolen Tide is so strong, is that shoplifting carries a far lower
penalty than robbery or burglary -theft-.

If they were robbing the stores at knife point, or breaking and entering, the
risk is significantly higher. This way they have a low risk, easy to turn
over, virtually untraceable scheme, and that is obviously a very attractive
thing.

~~~
freiheit
Shoplifting is theft. I think you meant "robbery".

~~~
Cogito
You are of course correct, I should have picked that up thanks!

------
djt
A similar story: I read years ago that there was a gang of people that would
steal laptops at airports when businessmen were tired and unattentive. The
reason they gave was that it was easy to move them (this was 10 years ago so a
Macbook Pro was about $5k) and if they got caught they could pretend they
accidently picked it up instead of their own bag. If they got caught it was
very unlikely to be prosecuted.

The robbers said that compared to robbing a convenience store etc it made as
much cash but the risk was extremely low.

~~~
GabrielF00
About five years ago I worked in an office that was above a physical therapy
place. Sometimes patients would sneak upstairs and steal a laptop. We were
able to recover one laptop: the guy who stole it sold it to a kid for $50 and
when the kid came home, his Dad made him tell how he'd gotten it. The Dad
found our number and said he'd give us back the laptop for the $50 his kid
spent, which we were happy to do. Another time a laptop was stolen the thief
wasn't smart enough to take the power cord.

I guess if you're desperate enough that you're willing to commit a crime for
$50 then stealing a laptop is a better idea than robbing a convenience store
but you still have to be pretty desperate.

~~~
samstave
1\. Steal laptop.

2\. Call victim and claim your kid bought stolen laptop for $50 and 'fessed
up.

3\. Claim you'd give it back for said $50

4\. Profit $50.

4a. Appear innocent.

~~~
eric_h
Amazingly, I think this is actually almost feasible, at least with regard to
the "fencing" of the stolen product. If you only attempted to swindle $50 out
of someone with this, it would very likely have a very high success rate.

Unfortunately, the economics don't work out w/respect to the risks/overhead
involved in the theft of said product.

~~~
ddlatham
Unfortunately?

------
alaithea
I saw one of these transactions go down a month or so ago in my town (a DC
suburb). A somewhat ragged looking woman was lugging a large bottle of tide
down the street. Another person waved at her and they approached each other in
the middle of a crosswalk. They haggled for a brief moment, the Tide changed
hands, and they went on their respective ways. My husband and I were totally
confused as to what we'd just seen. Now we know!

------
eric_h
I have been curious, since I moved to the LES in NYC a year and a half ago,
why the Duane Reade near me had security dongles with metal cables attached to
the handles of Tide and other premium detergent and on nothing else in the
store. Now I know.

[edit] this comment's reference: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5024191>
suggests that my local Duane Reade may have simply fallen victim to paranoia
induced by a viral and perhaps inaccurate news article. I'm inclined to
investigate further.

[edit again] the end of the article mentions another Duane Reade in NYC that
had someone steal a great deal of Tide detergent. I now wonder if there is, in
fact, a black market for tide, or if this thief fell victim to viral
misinformation, causing Duane Reade (equipped with the same misinformation) to
also over-respond.

~~~
eli
At my local CVS in DC they moved the Tide to behind the counter.

~~~
uxp
Reminds me of the time I was carded when I bought Baking Soda.

I see a lot of weird shit on the internet, I generally like my reality to be a
bit more logical, but every once in a while something really does make me say
WTF.

------
bulletsvshumans
This is listed as 'undetermined' on Snopes, for what it's worth.
<http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/tide.asp>

~~~
incision
I recall the Daily article mentioned making the rounds last spring.

It jumped out at me because I had previously noticed conspicuous anti-theft
tags on jugs of Tide in a downtown CVS, for what that's worth.

~~~
DanBC
But are the tags because of actual theft, or because someone read the article
and ordered tags be fitted?

Washing detergent is pretty expensive in the UK, and I can understand how
people might start stealing the ultra-concentrates to pay for drugs.

~~~
willyt
Finish dishwasher tabs. £10 for a 39 box in the Co-op. Thats where the real
money is if you ask me :-)

------
trevin
After reading through this a second time, I'm convinced it's an elaborate
press release. Way too much of the article is devoted to the benefits of Tide
and why people are so brand loyal.

Also, many of the quotes and details given appear to be pretty tongue-in-
cheek.

~~~
nikcub
This story is 9 months old, it was first on local news (with the same source
from the same police department):

[http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2012/03/14/tide-detergent-
beco...](http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2012/03/14/tide-detergent-becomes-the-
latest-target-for-thieves-across-the-country/)

and again:

[http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2012/03/23/prince-georges-
coun...](http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2012/03/23/prince-georges-county-
police-bust-laundry-detergent-theft-ring/)

Then extended as a feature in The Daily later that month:

[http://www.thedaily.com/page/2012/03/12/031212-news-tide-
the...](http://www.thedaily.com/page/2012/03/12/031212-news-tide-theft-1-4/)

Which lead it to becoming a subject on Snopes:

<http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/tide.asp>

It seems that the writer at NYMag hit his word count by extending the
background on the brand, since he had a ready source available with the
marketing/PR department at Procter. I think this could have been more
interesting if it went into the direction of exploring the economics at work.

------
justx1
Stolen bicycles are another example of a drug currency:
[http://blog.priceonomics.com/post/30393216796/what-
happens-t...](http://blog.priceonomics.com/post/30393216796/what-happens-to-
stolen-bicycles)

Interesting read about the "Economic Theory of Bike Crime": "...Using this
risk-return framework for crime, it begins to be clear why there is so much
bike theft. For all practical purposes, stealing a bike is risk-free crime. It
turns out there is a near zero chance you will be caught stealing a bike (see
here) and if you are, the consequences are minimal. "

------
chrisballinger
I'm surprised no one has made a money laundering joke yet.

~~~
ryusage
This isn't reddit.

~~~
guyzero
In your dreams. This isn't 2008 Hacker News either.

~~~
ryusage
True enough, but it's still not the place for stupid pun threads.

------
norswap
tl;dr: Thieves and crackheads are using Tide bottles as currency, because
those are getting bought by some stores under their market value in order to
turn a bigger profit.

~~~
dickbasedregex
Thank you. I quit reading after a while because the author wouldn't just cut
to the damn chase already.

------
onethree
I used to work in a supermarket in Australia, and we had a very similar
problem. We'd lose $10,000 a month in Olay products, virtually all of which
would end up at the local markets. It's not as uncommon as you might think

------
montecarl
This article makes Tide almost sound like its worth the extremely high cost. I
buy store brand everything for the most part. Am I missing out?

~~~
jevinskie
Honestly, I don't know. I think a lot of it has to do with the fragrance.
Wearing clothing washed with a different detergent feels odd, at least to me.
Also, one of the main odors that defines a "household scent" is the detergent
used in that household. Maybe these factors help drive brand loyalty?

------
rickyconnolly
But I still don't get it. Why _Tide_ in particular? Why not any other high-
price bulk retail product? Why not gourmet coffee grounds, for instance?

~~~
objclxt
Because Tide is universally popular in the US, amazingly so. You could go into
a CVS or Walgreens in the US and _70%+_ of the detergent on sale will be Tide
branded.

Since people are always going to wash clothes, retailers can guarantee they'll
shift, and it's virtually un-perishable - and because the margins on tide are
rather low, shops will happily buy suspect goods: they're practically
untraceable and will shift fast.

Practically _everyone_ does laundry, but not everyone drinks coffee. And those
who do drink coffee will have differing tastes and far more varying brand
loyalty than the detergent market.

~~~
bcn
"...talking about moving the Tide to stores “back home”—which in their case is
Vietnam."

Not only popular in the US!

------
philip1209
One page:

[http://nymag.com/news/features/tide-detergent-
drugs-2013-1/#...](http://nymag.com/news/features/tide-detergent-
drugs-2013-1/#print)

------
kleiba
_[...] the average U.S. consumer buys 68 pieces of clothing a year [...]_

I'm speechless. Can that figure be true?

~~~
cperciva
I imagine it depends on definitions. I bought a dozen pairs of socks in
November; does that count as 12 pieces of clothing or 24 pieces of clothing?
Do the hiking boots I bought count as clothing? And if a new parent is buying
baby clothes, who is the consumer -- the parent or the baby?

~~~
kleiba
The latter point is probably not as important since we're talking about
averages anyway.

I would imagine boots do not count since we're talking about detergent here,
although some shoes can be thrown into the washing machine.

There are three comments about socks now :-) But to get to 68 you'd still have
to buy 34 pairs of socks. Even if you exchange some of them for shirts, pants
and underwear, you'd need a pretty big sock drawer if you keep adding and
adding every year...

~~~
cperciva
_The latter point is probably not as important since we're talking about
averages anyway._

Well, unless you say that the baby isn't a "consumer", in which case your
average is the same total number of items of clothing divided by a smaller
number of consumers.

------
brokentone
Whether this story is fully accurate or somewhat sensationalized, it seems as
if the market accepts it. I was in a Duane Reade (convenience store/pharmacy,
think CVS or Walgreens) recently in the LES, NYC and I was trying to figure
out why they had alarm tags on most of the bottles of Tide, but none of the
other brands that had similar value and value density. This explains a lot.

------
smoyer
Perhaps the thieves are hoping for a clean get-away?

(Sorry ... someone had to do it)

------
elsurudo
The undercover cop selling the nail salon $1000-worth of stolen goods for $30,
then busting them for a felony is a little harsh and dishonest. They relied on
a trick, too (including expensive items, like quality headphones, with the
Tide, ONLY to push the "retail cost" of the goods over the felony-minimum).

~~~
Phlarp
How is this not entrapment?

------
Cogito
full text: [http://nymag.com/news/features/tide-detergent-
drugs-2013-1/#...](http://nymag.com/news/features/tide-detergent-
drugs-2013-1/#print)

~~~
montecarl
better yet:
[http://viewtext.org/article?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnymag.com%2Fnew...](http://viewtext.org/article?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnymag.com%2Fnews%2Ffeatures%2Ftide-
detergent-drugs-2013-1%2F)

I really like viewtext. To whoever made it, thanks!

~~~
aaronbrethorst
Ronnie Roller (<http://ronnieroller.com>), who is also the creator of
<http://www.ihackernews.com>

------
bane
Reminds me of a story I can't seem to google where a D.C. council woman was
killed and robbed for her credit cards, which were used to rent a tanker truck
and to buy thousands of gallons of gasoline, which (the plan was) was to be
sold for cash back to another gas station (at a discount) in order to buy
drugs.

------
GregBuchholz
Bravo. Better than _The Suit is Back_ by a country mile. "If You're Watching,
It's For You"
([http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2008/08/if_youre_watching_its...](http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2008/08/if_youre_watching_its_for_you.html)).

------
idunno246
I guess this is why safeway locks up the most ridiculous things. Like
toothbrushes!

~~~
anigbrowl
Things like toothbrushes are locked up because they are relatively expensive
but so small that they are easy to steal. You can just slide one up your
sleeve while pretending to examine another one and then putting it back. It's
not worth trying to identify or detain shoplifters over toothbrushes, but the
costs of theft add up. Same thing with razor blades.

~~~
caf
I have heard that razor blades are one of the most expensive items on a per-
pallet basis that a supermarket sells.

~~~
idunno246
and yet, the razor blades are right next to them not locked up. I remember
that specifically because it seemed really strange

~~~
winthrowe
"Give 'em the razor; sell 'em the blades"

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freebie_marketing>

~~~
corin_
Given you're replying to people talking about securing razors and making
blades easy to steal, that's not really relevant.

~~~
winthrowe
It was late, and I apparently read that backwards.

~~~
corin_
Fair enough :)

------
pixie_
Is this for real? Seriously this is the definition sensationalism.

------
dminor
Sounds way way less convenient than cash to me.

~~~
jpatokal
Stealing cash from a store requires armed robbery. Stealing Tide from that
same store is only shoplifting.

~~~
dminor
Ok, but if I'm hanging out on the corner selling drugs, do I really want to
deal with a bunch of laundry detergent tubs?

~~~
nathannecro
I'm not sure if that's the point. What they're doing is lowering expressed
risk.

In a standard drug+robbery cycle (I'm guessing here):

Alice robs a Walmart/7-11/etc with armed force or intent to use armed force.

Alice gains $500.

Alice goes to Bob and pays the $500 to him for drugs.

Not only is Alice in danger (she can be prosecuted for armed theft), but the
cash can be traced back to Bob putting him in danger. This also links Alice to
Bob's drug dealing activities which stacks additional charges on Alice.

In a Tide-enhanced drug+robbery cycle:

Alice goes to the Walmart/7-11/Etc and walks out with 10 tubs of detergent
(coordinating shift changes to make her escape). If caught, she can only be
prosecuted for shoplifting which is at best a mark on the record.

Alice sells the tubs of Tide to Bob and grabs her drugs.

If caught with the tubs of Tide, Bob can deny any connection. In addition, as
Cynthia, Darcy, Elizabeth, ... all shoplift Tide from the same store, that
store's inventory of Tide detergent will be depleted. As it takes time for P&G
to ship the Tide out, the store will have to rely on local-area suppliers of
Tide which in turn will have bought the Tide from Bob at a markup.

As long as Bob is not caught with the drugs on him, he'll not face any charges
(for possessing marked cash for example) as a bottle of Tide is deniable.
Similarly, Alice will only face charges for shoplifting which carries a far
more lenient sentence compared with grand theft.

~~~
ghshephard
As an additional twist, Alice sells the tubs of Tide to Carol (a Bodega
Owner), and then uses the cash she gets from Carol to buy drugs from Bob.

------
speedyrev
A new take on Money Laundering? _rimshot_

------
marze
Of course it would come to this. People need to pay more attention.

------
monochromatic
What a strange article. Almost feels like an April Fools Day joke.

~~~
muzz
Indeed. I expected a revealing that Tide was used as an ingredient to make
drugs, like how baking soda is used to make crack. I didn't expect "brand
loyalty" to be the TLDR.

~~~
marshray
Yeah, this has all the signs of a viral marketing campaign to me.

But some folks with long-established accounts on here confirmed that they've
seen evidence of the Tide underground economy in and around DC.

I think the world would be a more interesting place if it turned out that
Procter and Gamble had subcontracted some PR firm who trolled the shopkeepers,
police and crackheads alike.

~~~
corin_
I don't think anyone would sign off on a viral marketing campaign whose
message was "buying our product might make it look like you're about to buy
drugs".

------
bluedanieru
Oh fucking great, so now we can have the DEA confiscate your car because you
have some laundry detergent in the trunk.

The last half of the article detailing the "detective work" (read: harassing
destitute drug addicts) made me sick.

------
frozenport
this speaks to effectiveness of traditional regulations on currency.

~~~
mikenon
How so? The drug dealers are converting Tide back to dollars, and a
significant portion of their business is still done with paper currency.

The drug user is who acquires the Tide, and then barters it for drugs. As
other have pointed out, shoplifting Tide carries less risk than burglary,
armed robbery, prostitution, etc.

If anything I think this speaks to the resourcefulness of drug users, and/or,
the effectiveness of black markets.

~~~
frozenport
They feel the need to use something other than dollars.

~~~
mikenon
Right, we agree on that. However, for the reasons I explained above, it's not
because of regulations on the dollar.

