
U.S. denying passports to American citizens along Mexico border - aaronbrethorst
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/us-is-denying-passports-to-americans-along-the-border-throwing-their-citizenship-into-question/2018/08/29/1d630e84-a0da-11e8-a3dd-2a1991f075d5_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.03e54150be90
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cmurf
No person can assert their citizenship as fact, it's the state issuing the
birth certificate that asserts it as fact. And it is the U.S. State Department
questioning the veracity of the issuing state. Upon being born a person isn't
even sentient, they learn of their citizenship over decades through
indoctrination and then accept it as an established fact. And then, the state
department issued a passport at one time means they at one time accepted the
veracity of the birth certificate as issued by the state government.

I'm not a lawyer but I'd ask a court to rule the burden of proof is on the
state department. Not the individual.

And shame on any issuing state that doesn't come to the defense of someone
they claim is one of their citizens.

~~~
nikdaheratik
The problem is that the system doesn't work like that at all. If you have the
money to hire an immigration lawyer, then you can probably get this sorted
out. However, Texas and other states wouldn't have the ability to directly
intervene in an individual case because the Constitution doesn't allow them to
have a say in foreign affairs. They can sue the US government to get them to
stop certain actions, but the Attorney General for that state is the one who
makes the call here, and that is always a political consideration.

Basically, the laws are written under the assumption that the people running
these Departments would have a strong interest in protecting US citizens and
wouldn't use their power to do massive discrimination. So you're left with
getting either Congress or the Courts to intervene which takes time.

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siruncledrew
Damn, that is messed up. Born in America, served in the U.S. Army, and is just
as much a citizen as anyway else... but suddenly doomed because his name is
"Juan" and is Hispanic. That's gotta be depressing as hell to give so much to
a country to get turned away on a whim like that.

~~~
hprotagonist
"turned away" fundamentally misapprehends the travesty of justice here.

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remarkEon
How hard is it to forge a birth certificate? I was under the impression it was
quite difficult. Maybe with today's technology you could produce some
convincing frauds, but I'm kind of skeptical this was happening at any kind of
scale back then.

~~~
Retric
This is not about forging a birth certificate. This is about denying birth
certificates issued be the US government are actually valid.

~~~
remarkEon
I think I took the word "fraudulent" a little too all encompassing then. Still
... I think my point remains. How does one go about obtaining a legitimately
produced US birth certificate and then assign it to someone not born here? I
imagine this would have to be a tightly controlled process at hospitals. So
how do midwives get them?

~~~
Retric
Depends on the state, but it’s fairly common for people to be born outside of
hospitals, even just at the side of the road etc.

[https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CHSI/CDPH%20Document%20Libr...](https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CHSI/CDPH%20Document%20Library/ADA_Out-
of-Hospital%20Birth%20Pamphlet%20\(01-18\).pdf)

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fredgrott
you have to understand how difficult it is for the Border Patrol to determine
that a birth cert is not fraud...

We have 50 states, sever US non states and on top of that the numerous Native
American Reseverations and every one of them issues a birth cert...

~~~
slededit
Most crimes have a statute of limitations. If someone spends their whole life
believing they are a US citizen it makes no sense to throw them out at the age
of 40. Or even weirder - keep them inside but deny a passport.

They aren't morally responsible for whatever crime was committed at the time
of their birth - assuming one was even committed. Requiring proof of innocence
is near impossible and ridiculous.

