
Cloud DB War: Autonomous Databases - pafries
http://blog.panoply.io/the-power-struggle-in-the-cloud-db-war-just-shifted-paradigm
======
Entangled
All I want is an ordinary RDBMS with SPAAS (Stored Procedures as a Service)
that return a binary blob of tables, nothing else. I don't want noSQL, I don't
care about cloud objects, I saw Firebase and didn't like it, I don't want JSON
as a result, I don't care if noobs don't know who CODD is, they will learn it
the hard way sooner or later.

Oracle is the living god of RDBMS and they should take advantage of that yet
they don't. It has nothing to do with AI, ML, NN, or any other word du jour,
just plain tables lightning fast.

~~~
mamcx
I almost do this. My main APIs are POST/GET sqlite databases (ie: I build a
sqlite db and return it like a file, then in clients and use it. Not using
stupid JSON when I need long rows!).

\--

I'm dreaming about building a relational language and by the way build a RDBMS
on top of maybe sqlite. I think exist a lot of potential for a relational
store with more flexibility

Think: with both in-memory and on-disk data storage, fixed schema (as normal)
+ dynamic (like JSON) + Flexible.

By flexible I mean to use Union Types and return mixed rows:

//A union of several schemas: Table Log = | Customer | Order | OrderLine

SELECT Log =

Customer(1,...). Customer(2,...) Order(1, ...) OrderLine(1, ...)

Also, maybe allow to directly acces indexes (so a index is just a KV store!),
to allow logical log manipulation, etc.

In short, what about a relational-redis?

~~~
dfox
Transferring whole sqlite databases makes sense when one side (usually the
client) really uses the file as semi-persistent database for some non-trivial
timespan (we actually do that for most of our mobile applications, usually for
long-lived read only reference data, but one of our applications actually
POSTs modified sqlite files back to server as part of normal operation, which
is in fact mainly a hackish way to overcome memory limitations of the hardware
involved). Using it only as data format for the transfer is hugely inefficient
in terms of both time and bandwidth.

~~~
mamcx
Yes. That is why a better options is to have a kind of streamable relational
format (a JSON for tables ?).

The problem is that using sqlite it also embed a functional query engine, when
a simple data format requiere extra layers to make it work.

So even better is to have a sqlite-like engine that allow partial/streamable
reading/writes.

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sna1l
> Oracle will have a steep climb to pull off their vision. They eventually
> will... someday. It's not with the fortune 100s that you surpass biological
> evolution, it's with the hackers, startups, developers, and red-eyed bandits
> that code at 3:14 AM to solve that one bug that kept them from sleeping for
> the past 3 days. The Revolution of Evolution in cloud ML and autonomous DB
> will come from a Panoply, the execution of large enterprise market adoption
> will come from an Oracle.

Lol sounds like a great place to work.

~~~
tdb7893
It's amazing how freeing working only from 9 to 5 and not having access to
emails away from the office is. I'm surprised anyone would willingly work that
crazy

~~~
SomeStupidPoint
I don't even get why they would. It's not like the time I have to type code is
my limiting factor on productivity.

Past a certain point, I'm not solving issues -- I'm creating them. On any
horizon over a week, I'm better off sleeping, eating, exercising, etc than
trying to smash every hour into working. Keeping my brain on a routine and
properly nurtured is more productive than crazy hours, by a wide margin.

But I guess looking busy can be as important as results.

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cmetech
So let the one who thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall. This is
a biblical reference, but in this case, it applies. He has built up this
product to do a lot by attempting to step on the neck of AWS. He's barely
reached an elbow. What he is attempting to start is already being done.
[http://blog.panoply.io/the-power-struggle-in-the-cloud-db-
wa...](http://blog.panoply.io/the-power-struggle-in-the-cloud-db-war-just-
shifted-paradigm)

------
dalacv
When is someone going to make this:

Example 1

\---------

Me: "Create a new Customer Record"

DB: "Customer Entity doesn't exist, shall I create it?"

Me: "Yes"

DB: "Customer Entity created. What is the Name of your Record?"

Me: "Larry Ellison"

DB: "Customer, Larry Ellison created"

Example 2

\---------

Me: "How many customers are there?"

DB: "There are 123 customers"

Example 3

\---------

Me: "How many customers have accounts that are past due"

DB: "I did not understand past due"

Me: "How many customers have accounts where past due is true?"

DB: "There are 5 customers where account past due is true"

Me: "Send me an email of those customers"

DB: "Email has been sent"

~~~
lioeters
It could be a conversational API layer for any underlying database. Intriguing
idea, possible with existing technologies.. Tune in next week for ChatQL!

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zzzcpan
Wouldn't a much bigger deal be distributed part of the Oracle database in the
cloud, not ML? Because turning a feature rich RDBMS into a decent distributed
database is not really possible. You either have to sacrifice consistency,
which by the looks of it is what Oracle is thinking to do [1], or you have to
sacrifice both performance and availability. And there are already cheap not
CAP consistent RDBMSs as services in the cloud. It's just hard to imagine how
Oracle can leverage 90s era technology in a distributed world.

[1] [http://oracle-help.com/articles/oracle-18c-future-
database/](http://oracle-help.com/articles/oracle-18c-future-database/)

~~~
bmh_ca
Note Google Spanner.

~~~
zzzcpan
Yes, Spanner is the opposite of that strategy, designed from the ground up as
a distributed database.

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seorphates
I'm not quite sure I can be hyped. It's worth keeping an eye on. The core dbms
is relatively easy to carry and with some careful considerations can be formed
and firmed up quite nicely. The irony is the that thicker the oracle kit the
more intricate, delicate and expensive it becomes. Storage, db engine, memory
and.. cluster ware? Nope, that bird can-nah fly.

Nice database you got there, it'd be a shame if it couldn't grow. Eight
figures later.

If ml can expect, select and plant my data closer to the end user then my core
rdbms engine can grow, otherwise you're just moving pieces on the monopoly
board. Fat pipes, willing victims and a little ingenuity can go a long way.

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TYPE_FASTER
Moving infrastructure to the cloud can save money and labor, but the value of
working with an experienced DBA to me personally has been getting expert
feedback on schema design and stored procedure and query performance.

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mrweasel
Debating Oracle and the cloud always seems a bit of to me. I believe that most
of Oracles database customers specifically don't want a cloud solution.

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JKPI
Ellison has always been a visionary, his problem is getting his programmers to
actually act and make that vision come true.

#18c sounds bold

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alexnewman
ML DB lightyears ahead? More like what everyone is doing. THis author needs to
catchup on whats going on at CMU with Andy Palvo. PG will run this way before
ORacle

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Hackthepack
How can we even know #18c will do anything? it sounded like a bunch of
buzzwords!

Oracle is so late to the game its gonna take a miracle for them to make a dent
in AWS

~~~
JKPI
Larry Ellison never bullshits, the question is if its actually gonna as
autonomous as he says. From my experience with oracle DBs its gonna do half of
what he claims and cost twice what he claims

~~~
thebrettd
If it doesn't do what he says or cost what he says it costs then how is that
not BS? Did I miss the joke?

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tyingq
Too little, too late for Oracle I think. No matter how good the product is, it
won't be a first class supported thing at AWS, Azure, or Google's cloud.

Eventually, that will drain off their customer base. If whatever the big 3
cloud providers are selling as a database is "good enough", then "better"
won't be enough to keep Oracle's current position in the market.

~~~
dtauzell
Oracle has a lot of "legacy" customers who have a lot invested in their
existing Oracle infrastructure. Oracle wants to migrate these customers to
their cloud. For "Enterprise" I see Oracle's biggest competitor being Azure.

~~~
tyingq
Yes...I agree. I don't think this is a fast death. But it is similar to the
position all the RISC Unix vendors were in once X64 came out. Took a decade,
but that was the death knell.

This one might be longer, say 15 or 20 years...but it's coming.

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skwilder
What’s the expression. "Been there. Done that". I think Oracle’s just getting
there. Looks like Panoply is already there - already incorporating machine
learning into database architecture

