
Ask HN: When we will see the rest of the Snowden docs? - at-fates-hands
It&#x27;s been widely reported he took more than 50,000 docs. To my knowledge, only 400 documents to date have been released. Does anybody know when we might see the rest of the documents he&#x27;s still in possession of?
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duxup
Hasn't he talked about returning to the US? Releasing more (if he has them)
probably would have to be considered, along with the wishes of his current
hosts.

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banku_brougham
I have a followup question: Was Snowden a villain?

I certainly was interested to learn what the NSA was doing, and very unhappy
about the fouth amendment implications. But forget all that.

What specific publicly available info indicates he had nefarious intentions or
was an agent of a hostile power?

~~~
matt_s
Isn't he residing in Russia now?

A related follow-up question is: could his knowledge of our systems and
processes somehow have helped Russians do the hacking prior to 2016 US
elections? Not that they couldn't have done it without him but did he help in
an indirect way?

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woodman
> Isn't he residing in Russia now?

The only country that has demonstrated the ability to resist pressure to
extradite people wanted by the US? Yes.

> ...could his knowledge of our systems and processes somehow have helped
> Russians do the hacking prior to 2016 US elections?

bwahaha, so now he is involved in muh Russian collusion? The answer is yes,
which is what makes your insinuation really funny - they did all the things he
would have advised them not to do. So you could interpret that as evidence
that he didn't provide them that information, and is therefore not a Russian
spy.

~~~
ccarter84
> ...is therefore not a Russian spy. Hopefully you're right - lotta respect
> for how eloquent and well-spoken that kid was given the enormity of the
> pressures on him. As the years have passed, I'm a bit less sure about the
> motivations however.

~~~
woodman
> As the years have passed, I'm a bit less sure about the motivations however.

If you've got evidence, or even a coherent rationale, that would cast doubt on
his motives - I'd love to hear it. No, fleeing to the only country that would
be out of the reach of a president who prosecuted more whistleblowers (and
reporters) than every prior administration combined... that isn't evidence of
Snowden being a Russian spy. That would be like insisting that a prisoner who
accepts food from his captor is also expressing approval for his captivity.

BTW, looking back at all the articles about Obama's legacy in regard to
whistleblowers, written after the election - darkly predicting that Trump will
start jailing reporters because Obama had established the precedent... lol.

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krapp
Those documents are now a commercial asset. When the steady drip of Snowden
stories stops making money for the media, everything left will be probably be
dumped in a box and shelved somewhere.

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hsienmaneja
First off, the official narrative is that he passed them off to reporters.

Secondly, what in the releases in the intercept public releases specifically
compels you to want to see more classified info?

I might suggest a military path if you want a strong chance to be in the
intelligence community, then you can be privy to sensitive info that is need
to know.

If you believe info should be free I respect your right to believe in that and
the service members of our military also fight for your right to do so as
well, while keeping classified info private.

~~~
woodman
> ...and the service members of our military also fight for your right to do
> so as well, while keeping classified info private.

Combat vet reporting in: you have my permission to view the rest of the
Snowden documents. While secrecy does have a role in operational security -
taken too far it does much more harm than good. I'll never forget the news
rolling in about the leak, and how vindicated many security folks (including
myself) felt in regard to how insane the surveillance apparatus had become. It
was hilarious watching them drip feed the leak, see the predictable government
lie, then see the next leak proving that the government just lied.

~~~
hsienmaneja
Most people in the military I speak to absolutely have the opposite
conviction. In fact all of the people with whom I’ve acquainted myself are
against the Snowden leaks. Maybe it’s geographical. I’m talking to people in
my state only.

My take on the follow up leaks is that they were chosen to give the impression
of a trail to something much more insidious, but were actually picked in some
attempt to obtain maximum impact in embarrassing United States.

Also, why would you want classified info that’s not related to domestic
surveillance shenanigans leaked to the public? Everything that has been
released since the initial revelations seems to be related to military
operations. Maybe I’m missing something.

~~~
woodman
Most of the people I served with share my conviction. It likely has less to do
with geography and more to do with experience and culture. I fought in
Fallujah as a Marine infantry machinegunner, and did a bunch of S2 work as
well. You know what good the NSA and CIA did us? None. I can't tell you the
number of times we were sent of wild goose chases for Zarqawi by an intel
echelon above battalion... So nothing Snowden leaked would have touched
operations in the al-Anbar province. Manning on the other hand... he leaked
fresh company level operation logs - which I certainly disagree with. It is a
very strange experience to be able to go through wikileaks and find mission
debriefs that I submitted over a decade ago.

> ...obtain maximum impact in embarrassing United States.

That only worked because the government repeatedly lied in an attempt to
minimize the last leak, only to be proven a liar with the next leak. That
wasn't the ultimate goal though, just a hilarious side effect. The ultimate
goal was to dominate as many news cycles as possible, because the public has a
limited attention span.

> Maybe I’m missing something.

You are. The NSA is so incredibly tilted toward offensive operations that it
is ridiculous. They've so inundated themselves with surveillance data that
they've got analysis paralysis and can't effectively use the data for its
stated objective. It makes no sense for the US to dominate in offensive cyber
operations, because we have no technological peer... unless the NSA is cool
with industrial espionage. [0]

That effort should instead be redirected to defense, which is supposedly a
mission of the NSA, because of the asymmetrical relationship between the
difficulties in exploitation and hardening. Any banana republic can gather a
team of hackers and electrical engineers, but it takes some serious resources
to harden code and infrastructure. This is the reason why we stopped pursuing
biological weapon development and shifted to an unmatched defensive posture.

[0] [https://theintercept.com/2014/09/05/us-governments-plans-
use...](https://theintercept.com/2014/09/05/us-governments-plans-use-economic-
espionage-benefit-american-corporations/)

~~~
hsienmaneja
Thanks for your insights. May I ask why you believe too much info is leading
to analysis paralysis? Because of Binney or Snowden?

Also, I read the document just now that Snowden leaked related to the
corporate espionage. What our IC was doing is nothing compared to the broad
theft other cultures engage in without any moral concern as a matter of course
in that culture. I find Snowden and Greenwald leaking such a document to be
hugely offensive and anti-American. The intercept’s analysis of some
“subversion of society” is totally overblown. Such an underworld of spies is
bound to be dirty and the general public doesn’t know enough of the reality to
understand that. I believe in the American way and disagree that we should not
have an offensive cyber strategy as well, but agree about fortifying (and
reinventing) our defenses. Offensive biological strategy is something
different, not seeing the parallel.

As for your insights about Iraq I’ll ask around. Good to get your info here.

~~~
dangerface
You talk about the American way, I assume that means "form a more perfect
Union", "promote the general Welfare", "secure the Blessings of Liberty",
"establish Justice" you know all that good stuff thats in the American
constitution.

But everything you have said in this thread has been the opposite, you
encourage espionage without moral concern that's not Liberty. You see America
as a cult not a country or culture, questioning its actions are not seen as
trying to establish Justice but are instead hand waved as anti-american.

Earlier you talked about the leaks being embarrassing, maybe you should
encourage your country to stop doing things which embarrass you and your
country, instead you blame other people for talking about your embarrassing
actions.

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ionised
He's not in possession of anything. He handed over everything he had to
journalists in Hong Kong.

