
999-Year Lease - jermaustin1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/999-year_lease
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sleavey
This isn't just a historical phenomenon, given that the Millennium Dome
(opened in 2000) was also granted one. I wonder what the point of it is - are
local governments in the UK not allowed to gift or sell land, only lease it?

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jameskilton
IIRC it's a significant source of income for the British Royal Family. They
own a lot of land.

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ValentineC
UK land is technically "owned" by the Crown Estate [1], and revenue goes to
the British government. The royal family get a percentage of this (called the
Sovereign Grant [2]; née Civil List [3]).

[1] [https://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/en-
gb/resources/faqs/](https://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/en-gb/resources/faqs/)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_Grant_Act_2011](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_Grant_Act_2011)

[3]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_list#United_Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_list#United_Kingdom)

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chewyfruitloop
My house is on land that’s on a 999 year lease since 1870(ish) from the county
that moved boundaries 40 years ago...and we have no idea who the the lease
holder is... so that’s fairly perpetual

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ralfd
So ... can you sell the house?

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Fezzik
Generally, yes. You can sell the building on the land (which you own) and
transfer the lease (sometimes for a fee, sometimes not). My family has a cabin
North of Seattle, WA (USA) that is on land that a non-profit cultural
association just renewed a 99 year lease on from a railroad (I forget which
one). So long as you abide by the org rules sales are easy. I do not know how
universal such set-ups are.

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jermaustin1
This isn't just a UK thing. Well the 999-year lease is a UK/Commonwealth
thing, but I've worked in NYC real estate, and a lot of projects have multiple
hundred year leases.

And interestingly enough, there is a 99-year lease which the 99-year term was
not literal, but merely an arbitrary time span beyond the life expectancy of
any possible lessee (user) or lessor (owner). [1]

1:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/99-year_lease](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/99-year_lease)

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arrivance
I believe I read somewhere (and it is one of the related articles on the page)
that it was the 99-year lease that actually caused Hong Kong to lapse back to
Chinese control.

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Aeolun
A great reminder to always go with 999 years if you do anything country scale.

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tiernano
the Guinness Factory
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness_Brewery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness_Brewery))
has a 9000 year lease... they pay IRL£45 per year for the lease... Not sure
what that works out in Euro with inflation...

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ollie87
"The 9,000 year lease signed in 1759 was for a four-acre brewery site. Today,
the brewery has expanded to cover over 50 acres. The 1759 lease is no longer
valid as the company purchased the lands outright many years ago. So don't
worry, we're not planning on going anywhere."

[https://www.guinness-storehouse.com/en/faq](https://www.guinness-
storehouse.com/en/faq)

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secfirstmd
Guinness/Diageo in Dublin have one of these. A whole chunk of the city around
Dublin 8. I think they had an advert that they are 250 years of their way
through it.

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tiernano
It's 9000!

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msingle
it was, but it got converted to a normal purchase.

The funnier part is that they (Diageo, the owners of Guiness) discussed moving
out of the original brewery and the people got so angry that Diageo realized
they had to keep it open.

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secfirstmd
Yeh I remember that. I would stop drinking Guinness forever if they tried that
crap. And I'm sure most of Ireland would.

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Wowfunhappy
Legitimate question: why not just add 1 and make them thousand year leases?
Easier to remember, easier to say, and practically equivalent.

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ChuckMcM
Reminds me of the 'off by one' joke in CS. It actually is a 1000 year lease.
The first year of the lease is year 0. So you make 999 lease payments and you
have paid for all years up to and including year 999. The lease gets renewed
at year 1000.

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gowld
Are you saying 999 lease payments plus a down payment, or making an off-by-one
error?

When I sign a 1-year lease on real estate, it's 1 year, not 2 years.

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ChuckMcM
Its a terms thing, in a one year lease, let's say you sign it in December, and
pay for the month of January. Now each month you make a payment for the "next"
month, so in November (month 11) you make the final payment for December.

You have made 12 payments but the last one was in month 11. The first payment
was made in month "0" :-) it happens "outside" the lease range.

In a 99 year lease (the more common ones) you make your first year payment and
_then_ the lease starts. Then you make 99 more payments and at the end of the
last year the least ends. Which will be the 100 year anniversary of the start
of the lease.

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cwmma
yeah but in your example, nobody would call a 1 year lease an 11 month lease,
because you have the thing for 12 months not 11

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ChuckMcM
I don't name these things :-)

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Wowfunhappy
Well, why do we generally call two year leases two year leases, but thousand
year leases 999-Year leases? Where is the cutoff point where we switch
terminology?

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marcthe12
A common thing in Singapore. Almost everything since the 60s has 99 or 999
year lease. HDBs in places like matter which are over 50 year old have low
property processes even though it is a few stop to the down town.

