
“Don’t Try”: The Philosophy of the Hardworking Charles Bukowski - vo2maxer
http://www.openculture.com/2019/12/dont-try-the-philosophy-of-the-hardworking-charles-bukowski.html
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asdfman123
I just listened to an episode of The Happiness Podcast and it made it clear
that obsession over goals and other people's validation kills our natural
passion. I don't know about you, but passion is what I'm really after -- the
kind of state where you get lost in your work and love what you do.

It may be easy to dismiss Bukowski's advice because his abrasive and cynical
delivery style, but I think he has a point. Follow your interests, and try to
forget about your ego and the rest of the world.

(However, at the same time, I think it's important to be consistent and
develop good habits that will prevent you from quitting at the first
roadblock.)

~~~
cortesoft
Sadly, a lot of people's interests (or their interests combined with their
lack of ability, connections, etc) don't put enough food on the table.

"Forget about the rest of the world" isn't helpful if someone has a family to
support, or even themselves. It is pretty privileged to think everyone can
choose to only work in a field of their choosing... I don't know if many
janitors have an 'interest' in cleaning toilets... they have an interest in
supporting themselves.

I have always appreciated Mike Rowe's views on work and this idea... it is ok
to just work to make money, and find meaning in other parts of your life.

~~~
vanusa
Then you just have to decide what your primary goal is:

Is it to create a piece of (truly) original artistic expression?

Or is it to... put food on the table?

Both are perfectly valid. But -- as you are correct in noting -- quite
different.

~~~
homonculus1
Everybody's primary goal is to put food on the table! You must be pretty
insulated from the hard realities of life if you think people can simply treat
survival as optional.

~~~
medion
Putting food on the table for yourself is pretty damn easy. But if you want a
house, kids, a wife, a nice car, etc, then it gets exponentially more
difficult.

So, there is a choice available for creative people who don't wish to
compromise: They can be fully into their work at the expense of the above
cultural norms - perhaps if they are very successful in their niche they can
have those things too, but there could be a very long or infinite period of
their lives where this is not possible - that's the sacrifice.

I'm so sick of the 'I can't do XYZ because I have kids and a mortgage' talk -
well maybe you should have thought about the long term ramifications of kids
and a mortgage?

~~~
homonculus1
Okay, I agree with you. I guess "put food on the table" has a connotation of
providing specifically for others and not just yourself, which I wasn't
considering.

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DaveSapien
His quote (my favourite) may help understand this value: “If you're going to
try, go all the way. Otherwise, don't even start. This could mean losing
girlfriends, wives, relatives and maybe even your mind. It could mean not
eating for three or four days. It could mean freezing on a park bench. It
could mean jail. It could mean derision. It could mean mockery--isolation.
Isolation is the gift. All the others are a test of your endurance, of how
much you really want to do it. And, you'll do it, despite rejection and the
worst odds. And it will be better than anything else you can imagine. If
you're going to try, go all the way. There is no other feeling like that. You
will be alone with the gods, and the nights will flame with fire. You will
ride life straight to perfect laughter. It's the only good fight there is.”

~~~
bullen
I was going to say "Do. Or do not. There is no try." but your quote was
better!

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system2
I love Bukowski but "don't try, let it go, it will happen" doesn't make so
much sense. He lived most of his life not too happy. Being successful after
50-60 doesn't justify suffering for something you want so much. Especially in
today's world with high tech and fast-paced competitive environment, it is not
as easy as before. It is much harder to sit in a motel room, drink all day and
type so you might get published someday and make money. His lifestyle and
approach really wouldn't (doesn't) work today.

~~~
serf
>It is much harder to sit in a motel room, drink all day and type so you might
get published someday and make money. His lifestyle and approach really
wouldn't (doesn't) work today.

color me surprised; that kind of dedicated labor and isolationism sounds a lot
like the startup world, to me.

pick the right specimen and they probably imbibe as much booze doing it, too.

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metalrain
Bukowskis work really struck me when I was in my twenties. I'm not sure it
would now.

~~~
vincent-toups
He really struck his girlfriends too, I hear.

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vanusa
_struck his girlfriends_

Multiple girlfriends? Repeatedly?

I'm aware of 2 incidents involving Linda King. With other incidents (involving
which girlfriends) are you referring to?

I won't defend his behavior - but please, let's be accurate here.

~~~
vincent-toups
Super important to be ultra careful about how many times this man hit a woman.

~~~
vanusa
No, I just don't see the value in hyperbole -- or outright factual
misrepresentation.

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system2
So, how many times is acceptable?

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vanusa
That's not the point.

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atentaten
This is a lesson in what the Taoist call wu wei, which can approximately be
described as inaction, effortless action or non-doing. In the context of the
parent post, wu wei would imply unconflicted, spontaneous action wherein a
person is not "trying" they are simply doing what comes natural to them.

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kabacha
Pursuit of Wonder on youtube did a beautiful rendition of this[1].

That being said I'm not sure how well this holds up in modern world,
especially when it comes to technology. A lot of initial barriars are really
difficult to wrap your head around and often can only be overcome only by
sheer will. That's the most important thing I've learned studying CS -
sometimes you need to push through.

I'd really like to see some big data science on this. We all know the memes of
Einsten flopping math or something but in reality most of the world changing
actors seem to be quite predetermined, as in they didn't try. Do we have any
cases where someone _did_ try and succeed in changing the world?

1 - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMTDAHK-
tkE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMTDAHK-tkE)

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ogou
Morpheus : What are you waiting for? You're faster than this. Don't think you
are, know you are. Come on.

Stop trying to hit me and hit me.

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nsxwolf
Jeez. I don't feel that way about anything.

~~~
keenmaster
Literally anything? You’ve never thought about an unsolved market problem and
felt a rush trying to solve it in your head? Wouldn’t you feel an elevated
sense of purpose working for a company solving that problem, or starting a
company and solving the problem yourself? You’ve never had fun doing something
that can be commercially useful, even if you have to cross it with other
domains to make money?

~~~
kharak
I genuinely can't tell if this comment is sarcasm or not.

If it's not sarcasm, fun isn't passion. Not even close.

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baby
Everybody should read Factotum from Bukowski, it taught more about work than
any other book.

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vmchale
Sounds kind of Taoist, some parts like Catherine of Siena.

Also yoda lol

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muhammadusman
link is down, anyone have an alternative link?

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MS90
Master Yoda put it pretty succinctly. "Do, or do not. There is no try."

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dijit
But only the sith deal in absolutes.

So, work that one out.

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wwweston
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes."

"But wait, isn't that statement itself abs-"

" _ONLY_ a Sith, you hear me? NOBODY. ELSE."

~~~
etblg
Yoda in the prequels is a hypocrite and an old stooge who let a republic
collapse.

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tengbretson
Charles Bukowski was a man-child and a grifter.

~~~
TurkishPoptart
Maybe, but he is one of the best American poets, and will remain so.

~~~
edoo
“Art is what you can get away with.” - Andy Warhol

