

Google Open Source Manager Says "Android Is The Linux Dream Come True" - dkd903
http://digitizor.com/2011/07/12/google-android-linux-dream/

======
mycroftiv
I can't say I think much of an article talking about Android as "The Linux
Dream" that doesn't clearly articulate the difference between the Linux kernel
and the rest of userland. Android has really demonstrated that Stallman's
convention of referring to GNU/Linux and not labeling the whole OS with the
name of the kernel should have been adopted for purely practical reasons.

If people are happy to call Android "Android", then we should have been
calling the desktop os with Linux kernel "GNU" and not "Linux" all this time,
shouldn't we? The full names should be Android/Linux and GNU/Linux to
differentiate the phone and desktop operating systems.

It seems that the power of a corporation to create a brand and call it
whatever they want is uncontroversial, and nobody seems bothered by the name
Android which makes no mention of the Linux kernel whatsoever, but RMS'
thoroughly rational and sensible idea that the right name for the desktop OS
should correctly label its major components has been very controversial.

I think there are a lot of lessons to be learned here about naming and power
relationships, and our implicit acceptance of the dominance of corporate
entities such as Google over our discourse.

~~~
aikinai
"Android" is just a far better name than "GNU." The main difference is
probably just that it's easily pronounceable, but it also connects to images
in people's minds that make it easy to remember.

"Linux," like "Android" is most importantly clearly pronounceable. And anytime
you have two words like "GNU/Linux" people are just going to use one, likely
the one they can read.

~~~
anigbrowl
I liked 'Gnu', but you're right. While such issues might seem trivial, the
fact that Gnu has had the same crappy drawing as its logo for >15 years has
always struck me as proof that almost nobody in the Gnu project understands or
cares about user experience. I got quite excited when Tux the penguin showed
up because it suggested there were still people out there who thought the GUI
desktop was rather important.

------
fluidcruft
It won't be until Motorola and anyone similar to them dies in a fire. I cannot
tell you how much having made the mistake of purchasing a Motorola phone has
made me absolutely loath those MBA-led jackasses. Get an Android they say.
It's open source, they say. Oh, you didn't know about the locked bootloader?
Oh, you expected software updates and bug fixes? LOL. Enjoy your abandoned
phone and thanks for the purchase. Android has been far from anything Linux-
like so far. The term "Android" does not equate with the types of control over
my devices I expect from something that is Open Source. I did learn my lesson
and my wife has a Nexus. This Android = Open Source lie is completely
misleading bullshit, though. Nobody sells AOSP phones except Google's Nexus
line.

~~~
Daniel14
Well, if you care about a locked bootloader and similar restrictions (99%
don't), but didn't put the effort into googling your phone to find out about
them, you can always root your phone and put on the the newest version - If
you didn't get a Nexus in the first place, that is. Also, you'd have to live
in the US for it to matter, the vast majority of carriers actually deliver
Android updates pretty timely.

I agree Android isn't anywhere near a perfect linux dream of open hard- and
software, but it isn't as awful as you depict it either imho.

~~~
fluidcruft
From my position now, I understand that. It is however not: "Get an Android
phone it's open source." Instead, it's find out about all sorts of technical
minutia and then find a phone that actually allows you to use the open source.

I do live in the US. My phone (Milestone XT720) was released running 2.1 over
seven months after 2.2 had been released and I bought it only both _after_
verbal and email confirmation from Motorola support that a 2.2 update was on
the way.

Nevertheless, Motorola officially abandoned the phone at 2.1 three months
after release. They claim it was an honest mistake and the support personnel
were confused. Whoops. Motorola has recently confirmed that we will never even
get a security update. I didn't know at the time that Motorola were such
incompetent assholes and would both lie and never ship updates. Maybe if I had
known that I would have learned beforehand what was the locked bootloader.

Like I said, I've learned my lesson. My family will never, ever buy anything
made by Motorola. Motorola points their fingers at the carrier and the carrier
points their finger at the manufacturer. I'm tired of these games. That's it.
End of story. It's Nexus only from now on. I don't trust any of the assholes
selling phones. Period. If I wanted to buy a locked down phone, I'd buy an
iPhone.

------
heyrhett
Wow, a lot of people are unhappy here. I suggest that you try the OpenMoko, if
you want more freedom: <http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page>

I for one am extremely happy that google exists, and is pushing a linux-based,
mostly free operating system. The fact that it's gaining so much traction and
market share compared to the linux desktop is a dream come true.

To develop an app for your mobile device, Apple requires you to:

1\. Pay them $99 / year. 2\. Use a language mainly specific to apple
development 3\. Buy their IDE through their App store (or download an older
version from their password protected developer website. 4\. Run development
software on their proprietary operating system.

I don't know what Microsoft and other giant companies are doing, but I imagine
the development process is not much better.

Conversely, I can download eclipse to any computer and write and android app
in Java for my phone for free in about an hour.

That feels a lot more free to me, even if there are a few locked parts under
the hood.

~~~
darklajid
(I'd say MeeGo is fine, but)

OpenMoko? How about WebOS?

OpenMoko was a great idea. It's more the HURD of mobile operating systems
though.. A failure - it never worked well, was rewritten a thousand times and
it sure seems to be dead.

Now, MeeGo could've started something new. But - here we're getting into the
'WTH did Nokia think' discussion. I'll leave this discussion to bergie, I
guess.

WebOS is the sexiest option for me. It runs a real linux stack (like MeeGo),
has a great UI (haven't used the N9, but before that I'd say it topped MeeGo
and probably Android in most cases) and your applications are by and large web
apps, written in JS (lately, using node.js).

If I could steer the market with my mind alone, I'd decide this to be the
winner/future. Back to my Android now. Need to install another CM release..

------
dave1010uk
If you're looking for a GNU/Linux mobile device, try MeeGo (currently only the
Nokia N9) or Maemo (Nokia N900). MeeGo and Maemo are GNU/Linux with a few
small proprietry components.

------
scythe
Wait, wait, wait. Android has realized the dream of fully open hardware and
software? This is the same Android that comes with a bunch of closed-source
stuff [1], stores your data on servers which are not yours, and runs primarily
on proprietary handsets?

I'm happy for the success of Android and it represents a significant step
towards openness in both the mobile phone space and the personal computer
space, but this is certainly not the end of the war, nor is it the beginning
of the end. Perhaps it is the end of the beginning.

[1] - <http://www.fsf.org/bulletin/2008/fall/mobile>

~~~
spot
yes it is. if you don't like the closed-source apps, you can run your own pure
replacements.

~~~
scythe
Obviously, and if I don't like Windows, I can install a BSD or anything from
<http://gnu.org/> and run a fully free computer (or Kolibri or Haiku). That is
relevant to the success of the open-source movement on the desktop, but it's
not the end-game.

~~~
spot
that's a bogus comparison: if you replace windows with BSD you aren't running
windows anymore. if you replace google's maps app with one from openstreetmaps
you are still running android.

~~~
scythe
That isn't the point, though: the point is that people are using closed-source
software by default.

------
darklajid
I disagree strongly.

Now - I'm an Android user. I just bought one of the upper-class dual core
phones and went with Android instead of waiting for the Pre3, giving the N9 a
try or something similar.

But that's because

* I love Google's services. More or less every single one. I don't extend that love to the company, but I like using their stuff.

* Innovation seems to happen in the realms of popular and therefor attractive markets. If there's a new thing (tm), it won't be available on WebOS (or MeeGo, or maybe even WP7) for a while. It's more or less iOS vs. Android. RIM's dead in my world.

But - am I happy with my choice? Nope.. My choice (Another Android device:
Yes/No) was basically accepting defeat and choosing the best compromise,
something that worksforme. It's not the Linux dream come true, it's why I
installed (among other systems) Windows on my desktop..

------
sciurus
The interview that this article excerpts is at
[http://derstandard.at/1308186313932/Interview-Google-
Android...](http://derstandard.at/1308186313932/Interview-Google-Android-is-
the-Linux-desktop-dream-come-true?linux)

------
binarycrusader
If the Linux dream was to randomly pick versions of the kernel, deem them
"unsuitable for public distribution", and not release them, sure!

I suppose it depends on whose dream they're claiming it is; much like the
article notes, I'd imagine most people dream of it being a mainstream desktop
OS (which it isn't yet).

Perhaps in time desktops will be irrelevant, but until they are, success in
the mobile space doesn't seem like much of a dream come true to me, especially
with the proprietary aspects to be paid.

------
ChuckMcM
It is interesting to see content spam which targets the HN crowd. This article
is clearly web spam, between that ratio of 'written text' to 'ads' to the
various typos (common on rapidly written and pushed out type articles) to the
disjoint connections (we got Linux, Google, Ubuntu, and Android all in one
paragraph). Add to this that we've got a 'private' domain registration hosted
out of India by ZDNET and well, it pretty much screams content farm.

------
bryanlarsen
The headline article is a refutation of Di Bona's statement, not an
endorsement, so please read the article before commenting. Thanks.

