
Think Twice Before Ordering Coffee or Tea on a Plane - devy
http://www.travelandleisure.com/airlines-airports/flight-attendants-dont-drink-coffee-tea-planes
======
farnsworth
I never know what to take away from these "germs are everywhere" scare
stories. I've been drinking coffee on planes for years. Maybe I've been
exposed to something, but I've never been sick. Maybe it's making my immune
system stronger. I'll make reasonable choices but I'm not going to be paranoid
or even think twice about something like coffee on an airplane.

~~~
bspn
The water is boiled to thermo-nuclear levels so I'd be shocked if anything
nasty could survive it - certainly the flavor can't!

I'm not sure if it's because there's more content available these days, but
the "germs are everywhere" movement has far greater prominence than when I
grew up. We'd spend all summer barefoot, put our hands in places they
shouldn't and then in our mouths, eat food that we almost certainly shouldn't
have and yet we somehow survived.

There's some things that we absolutely shouldn't consume, but airplane tea and
coffee are pretty low down that list.

~~~
officialjunk
boiling water kills most of the organisms, but the toxins they excreted will
still be present and can cause problems.

------
jpm_sd
If you've ever had coffee or tea on a plane, you probably already know that
the water usually tastes terrible anyway. So, germs or no germs, stick to cold
drinks. Like gin and tonic.

~~~
scandox
That's my philosophy. The Quinine will also help suppress any malaria one
might catch due to humid conditions in the rear cabin toilets. Slice of lemon
for a Vitamin-C immune system boost. The mild sedative of alcohol to drown out
the screaming void of my mind left idle without access to the internet.

~~~
Eerie
>The mild sedative of alcohol to drown out the screaming void of my mind left
idle without access to the internet.

Consider doing something with your mind...

~~~
copperx
There's nothing as pleasurable as reading a book on a plane, as there's not
much else to distract you. That's changing, though.

------
rwc
Damn near every flight I see the pilot and copilot enjoy a cup of coffee, and
yet we don't hear about the waves of moribund pilots unable to perform their
duties....

~~~
benhoyt
What kind of flights do you take that you get to _see_ the pilot in this post
9/11 world? (I agree with the sentiment though.)

~~~
Godel_unicode
If you're paying attention you'll notice that, typically after cabin beverage
service ends, the flight attendants will make and deliver coffee to the
cockpit. What happens to that coffee once it's behind the door is, of course,
purely speculation.

~~~
zzalpha
_What happens to that coffee once it 's behind the door is, of course, purely
speculation._

Its times like this that I'm reminded of the risks of failing to fund high-
quality investigative journalism...

------
jobu
_" According to a 2004 EPA sample of 158 planes, 13 percent contained
coliform. Two of the airplanes were found to have dangerous E.coli in the
water."_

That is kinda gross, but realistically all that bacteria would be killed by
heating the water.

More of a concern is that is the same tap water in the bathroom for washing
hands. Last flight I took I noticed there was a Purell dispenser in the
bathroom next to the sink and I wondered why that was necessary given there
was soap and water.

~~~
dragon_greens
Simply heating does not kill all bacteria magically. That would require
boiling for some time and I doubt that happens in-flight.

~~~
sfeng
Heat absolutely does kill bacteria. Heating water for just a few minutes at
60C will kill e. coli, 70C will kill it instantly. Coffee is brewed at
90-100C.

[1] [https://academic.oup.com/jtm/article-
pdf/3/1/11/5107757/jtm3...](https://academic.oup.com/jtm/article-
pdf/3/1/11/5107757/jtm3-0011.pdf)

~~~
rjsw
Airplanes are not pressurized to sea level though, water boils at lower
temperatures at altitude.

~~~
spiznnx
On airplanes, pressure is equivalent to about 2000m ASL, at which water boils
at 93.4 °C

~~~
rjsw
There are several ski resorts at 2000m, you notice the difference in coffee
temperature from sea level.

------
725686
Hypercleanliness may be making us sick [2013]:

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-
science/hyper...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-
science/hypercleanliness-may-be-making-us-
sick/2013/03/25/9e6d4764-84e9-11e2-999e-5f8e0410cb9d_story.html?utm_term=.d85b0756c125)

~~~
Mz
More proof that absolutely everything makes us sick.

/s

------
theDoug
Asked two flight attendants I know, neither agree with this. But hey, more
coffee for me.

------
rm_-rf_slash
_They cook the shit out of everything now cause everybody’s afraid of food
poisoning! Hey, where’s your sense of adventure? Take a fucking chance will
you? You know how many people die in this country from food poisoning every
year? 9000... that’s all; it’s a minor risk! Take a fucking chance... bunch of
goddamn pussies! Besides, what do you think you have an immune system for?
It’s for killing germs! But it needs practice... it needs germs to practice
on. So listen! If you kill all the germs around you, and live a completely
sterile life, then when germs do come along, you’re not gonna be prepared. And
never mind ordinary germs, what are you gonna do when some super virus comes
along that turns your vital organs into liquid shit? I’ll tell you what you’re
gonna do... you’re gonna get sick, you’re gonna die, and you’re gonna deserve
it cause you’re fucking weak and you got a fucking weak immune system!_

-George Carlin

------
res0nat0r
Most flights I've been on are serving water in cups from bottled water the
attendants are opening as they go.

~~~
mattkrause
Also isn't the water....boiled for coffee and tea? Perhaps not enough to
totally sterilize it, but it must help some.

~~~
rdoherty
I'm 99% sure that any boiling will kill nearly all germs in water. I don't
have facts on hand, but I do remember that once you get above ~160F, nearly
all germs are dead. So boiling water will definitely kill everything.

~~~
falsedan
It will kill the pathogens which cause vomiting and diarrhea: the article
mentions _e. coli_ , which the CDC[0] recommend 1 minute at boiling
temperature to deactivate. I'd skip that and stop as soon as the water boiled.

Note that sterilization requires higher temperatures for longer periods, but
it's not required for food products consumed by the general public. Some
bacteria may survive the boiling process, but your stomach acid + immune
system will destroy them.

[0]:
[https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/private/wells/dise...](https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/private/wells/disease/e_coli.html)

~~~
rdoherty
Good point! That's why posting on HN is so great, even if you're 99.9%
correct, someone will always reply to tell you precisely how you are 0.1%
wrong . Thanks for the link, I tried to find official sources online and had
trouble.

~~~
falsedan
To be clear, I think your original comment is just fabulous and you're 100%
right.

I'm just curious since I know that controlling the level of _E. coli_
contamination in milk is important from first-hand work on dairy farms, plus I
know that pasteurization heats (not boils) the milk, and not for the
ridiculous durations I see when searching online for "making water safe to
drink".

~~~
mattkrause
Also, the relevant factor is not just temperature--it's a combination of time
and temperature. For milk, you can do 1-2 seconds at 135C (UHT), 15 sec at 72C
(HTST), or something like 20 min at 60C.

------
LukaAl
Ummm... Pasteurization used to kill deadly bacteria in our food is done
heating the substance to sanitize at 73-75 degree Celsius for around 15
seconds. For brewing a good coffee or tea you need a much higher temperature
and I guess they don't immediately cool it down.

So, go ahead, drink your coffee or tea on the plane. Yes, it is disgusting,
but it is a matter of taste, not of bacterial infection.

------
projectramo
Also, all coffee and (especially) tea drinkers know that the coffee or tea has
to be really hot to be enjoyable.

But you can't distribute weaponized fluids when your entire world is literally
being rocked.

So they hand out lukewarm tea or coffee. Yes it is safe but not fit for human
consumption.

Looks like they saved us from e.coli as well by giving us that tepid stuff.

~~~
Semaphor
Only been flying with Emirates recently, but their coffee was always hot

------
smsm42
I hate it when articles say "research found X in Y", without stating how much
X there was and whether or not it is above normal level and is dangerous. It's
California prop 65 story all over again. Bacteria are amazingly versatile and
resilient, one can find _some_ of them practically everywhere, so finding some
in an environment that is not specifically and thoroughly sterilized is no
wonder. The question is how many of them and how dangerous that is to a common
person. The article provides no information about it, and therefore is
useless.

------
jdc0589
I embrace all chances to strengthen my immune system. challenge accepted.

------
virtuexru
No wonder my immune system is so strong; I love airplane coffee.

~~~
mindcrime
It's strange... I've always assumed that airplane coffee is the lowest of the
low-bid, el-cheapo, nobody-else-would-buy-this coffee that you could find. But
yet, I've always enjoyed the coffee on airplanes, and to a surprising degree.
I think every time I've ever gotten coffee on an airplane, my thought after
the first sip was "OMG, that is SO good".

But, that could just be because I'm usually dead-tired, caffeine deprived, and
jonesing for coffee like a crack addict craving their next hit, by the time I
get on the plane. _shrug_

------
heisenbit
One really has to draw the hat to Business Insider pushing surprising
insights: Long haul has more bacteria than short haul. I always thought
bacteria would die off over time. /s

There is however a good chance coffee or tea messes with your sense of time so
moderation when flying can be important. Especially when taking into account
the beverages consumed of the ever increasing leg of the flight in the
terminal.

------
pasbesoin
I take a can of V8, if they have it. A bit of nutrition and elctrolytes. If
the water is a concern, then I guess it'll be a can of mineral water to go
with it, instead of "tap".

------
davidw
I try to stick to hard alcohol but will make due with wine or beer.

In wine there is truth, in beer friendship, in water... bacteria.

------
k_sze
I don't understand. Is that something that a Brita-like filter can't fix?

------
vinayan3
Taking a flight can contribute to dehydration because the air in the cabin is
dry and low humidity. Drinking coffee and tea doesn't help.

~~~
Godel_unicode
This is a commonly belief with no basis in actual science; see this answer
from a Mayo clinic dietician.

[http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-
he...](http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-
eating/expert-answers/caffeinated-drinks/faq-20057965)

