
Lightweight Living (1999) - grinich
http://www.aldha.org/ltweight.htm
======
hugh3
Everybody on this site is always attacking stuff. I'd like to write in defence
of stuff.

Stuff is awesome. Four years ago when I moved to the US I went from the
situation of having an apartment full of stuff to having two suitcases full of
stuff. I acquired an apartment where the old tenants were happy to leave
behind a crummy couch and a mattress on the floor, did a quick run to Walmart
to pick up a minimalist set of kitchenware and bedding, bought a bike to get
around town, and I was pretty much in the supposedly-blessed state of having
the mininal possible amount of stuff.

It wasn't that great. It was just limiting and depressing.

Four years of stuff-acquisition later I now have just about the right amount
of stuff. Some stuff (like half the stuff in my kitchen) I seldom use, but
it's there in case I need it. Other stuff is completely useless, but I like
having it around because it looks nice. I own four frypans, which is probably
at least twice as many as I need, but y'know what? Contrary to what you read
in many of these articles, having the extra two frypans doesn't cause me any
distress.

So while I'd never advocate anyone buying stuff just for the sake of buying
stuff, nor buying stuff that they can't afford, I really don't see any problem
with having some stuff, nor any great advantage to getting rid of stuff. Three
cheers for stuff, and its nonzero ability to enhance your life!

~~~
Qz
I'll bet that you have a job that you really love. In this case stuff is a
win-win scenario -- you earn money by doing something you enjoy, and you use
that money to buy stuff that you enjoy.

Most people are not in this situation. They have a job that they either put up
with, or in many cases actively dislike, and they have a lot of stuff that
requires a continuous money flow to sustain. They're convinced the stuff is
'necessary', and therefore it is necessary for them to continue slaving away
at the job that they hate so that they can enjoy the stuff they think they
need.

In that cases, it's not a case of net postive or negative for stuff, but cost-
benefit analysis. Is the stuff that you have worth the cost of working for it?

But like I said, if you enjoy your work, then stuff is basically free.

~~~
hugh3
Thanks, that's a good way of putting it.

"If you enjoy your work, then stuff is basically free."

I'm off to enjoy my free stuff.

------
jdietrich
We've come oddly full circle over the course of the industrial revolution.
Once upon a time no human owned more than they (or their mule/ox/wife) could
carry, as by necessity we were nomadic. Agriculture caused us to settle,
industrialisation brought us to cities, and with a few notable exceptions, all
our lifestyles adapted to suit 'settledness'. Now, as we're moving into the
post-industrial age, a return to mobility seems to make more sense, and with
it new attitudes and beliefs about property.

Steve Roberts ( <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDaz8vaKzdQ> ) is a bit of a
hero of mine and I think the first person to really figure out the physical
implications of internetworking for the knowledge worker. Steve took his first
voyage a few years before I was born, but in that short time we've seen
unbelievable changes in society, the economy and of course technology.

I struggle to think of somebody I know personally who couldn't do their job
from anywhere in the world, if only they had the courage to demand it. The
whole economy seems to be disappearing into the ether and the workforce seems
to be slowly following, albeit largely via Bangalore and Beijing. Perhaps most
extraordinary is the technological change. I recently built a modern version
of Steve's Winnebiko, but I quickly realised that it was a largely pointless
task - twenty-odd years of miniaturisation and a whole heap of bandwidth have
shrunk almost all of his 125kg trailer rig into an ordinary smartphone. I
still get a little thrill every morning at the marvel of technology that lives
in my left pocket. Every record, every book, every photograph, a telephone, a
camera, a television and much more besides in what previous generations might
have described as "something no bigger than a pack of cigarettes".

It is so easy to forget that we already live in the future.

~~~
nazgulnarsil
You kids these days with your unbridled wonder. Back in my day the future had
flying cars!

------
stellar678
Bruce Sterling wrote about simplifying possessions a couple years ago on
signaling the end of Viridian Design.

Basically useful, sentimental and beautiful things make the cut. Everything
else goes.

His unique recommendation was to photograph and meticulously document
everything you got rid of and generate a database of your former possessions.
Quite useful if you find yourself missing it in the future, and a pretty cool
personal history project to boot!

The essay is on the main page: <http://www.viridiandesign.org/>

~~~
ericb
I question the value of most sentimental stuff. I'm moving next week and have
been looking at my boxes of sentimental stuff. I realize I only look at it
_when I'm moving_.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not throwing it out--because I'm human and _I can't_.

~~~
keeptrying
Put the sentimental stuff into storage and look at it every month when your
storage bill comes in the mail.

------
Qz
It's like the feeling you get when you delete stuff off your hard drive,
except now you're deleting real things.

------
branden
Twice since 2008 I've left one state for another with all my possessions
crammed into my Honda Civic. It's liberating in a way that's hard to explain
to someone who doesn't already understand the feeling. I learned what I really
valued (apparently some books, my computers and gadgets, and old letters and
other mementos). And a car is large enough that there was still plenty of room
for junk I didn't need.

~~~
sliverstorm
I've done the same, except in one of these

[http://xtbuy.com/image/album/Toyota+MR2/Toyota-
MR2-SW11-Mk1-...](http://xtbuy.com/image/album/Toyota+MR2/Toyota-
MR2-SW11-Mk1-Orange.jpg)

The trunk is the size of a bag of golf clubs.

It is a fantastic feeling. For me it's a sense of freedom, knowing I can cut
loose and move at any time, anywhere.

~~~
hugh3
I've done the same except intercontinentally and with two suitcases.

I didn't feel liberated from my stuff, I just felt like I now had an
inconveniently small amount of stuff and needed to buy all my stuff all over
again.

~~~
sliverstorm
I'd say the difference is I had enough space to carry all that was truly
important to me, whereas two suitcases is enough for some clothes, a laptop,
and maybe a couple other things.

------
teye
Lightweight living, a minimalist lifestyle, or whatever you want to call it
represents maximum freedom for some people. If you come across adventure or
you decide you want to move, you can do whatever you want at the drop of a
hat.

I'd say it's best suited to people who don't have a family, sedentary
lifestyle, or hobbies that require a lot of stuff.

In late 2007, I got rid of my place and everything I owned to travel
indefinitely with only a laptop, HD cam, four shirts, a pair of pants, and two
pair of underwear/socks. My worldly possessions weighed 14 lbs and occupied a
backpack smaller than the L.L. Bean that hauled my books in high school.

Over the course of the preceding 6 months, I'd realized I never actually used
my kitchen, living room, couch, TV, or pretty much anything else in my place.
I would get home, play guitar and drums, use my computer, sleep, and leave.

So I got rid of it all, and the feeling was one of total liberation. I haven't
looked back, and after 3 years (including a move to SF), I've added a small
acoustic guitar and shed the HD cam.

I also realized that an apartment is mostly wasted space for someone who
spends most of his time outside and around town, so I got rid of that too and
sleep in my car.

Long story short, I've found getting rid of excess to be liberating,
productive, and addictive. Highly recommended.

------
katovatzschyn
I am personally obsessed with lists, rankings and statistics in general so I
do not know how universal my desires are... but:

Try making a weighted list of your dearest possessions. In as much depth as
possible to its dearest extent. Not the "true wealth" things such as love,
family, friends et cetera, but instead your physical objects like laptop or
favorite books.

I found that the objects low on the list I didn't care so much about and did
not use too often. It was easy to get rid of them then. Putting on paper what
my unconscious already valued made this process much more comprehensible and
satisfactory to me.

I find that the more I eliminate in excess the more I can love the things that
I do care about. Maybe that is true for you as well.

------
yason
The best kind of move is when you can keep your old apartment for a while.

You just relocate stuff on a when-needed basis and eventually the old
apartment is full of crap you haven't missed once.

Figuring out what to keep and what to give away is an easy problem at that
point.

~~~
darkxanthos
That's what I do too! Just did it again last month and simultaneously move
into a smaller place. I still have some boxes in my car and now that they've
sat in my car for a couple weeks and I don't miss them I'm pretty sure I don't
care or it may just be sentimental stuff.

------
manicbovine
I moved to Europe for a two year post-doc with nothing but a suitcase. I left
absolutely everything behind --- people included. I learned things about
myself and the world that I could never have imagined.

That said, I should have at least brought a damned book.

------
jasonkester
I just got back from 7 months backpacking from Peru to Panama. Sometime while
I was away, my storage locker was broken into back home.

My whole life is in that locker, yet when I sat down to think of what might
have been stolen it occurred to me that there was absolutely nothing in there
that I'd really miss if it were gone. Maybe a couple old photo albums, but
that's about it.

Turns out, the burglars came to the same conclusion. Evidently nothing I own
looks particularly valuable to anybody else either. Anybody want a bunch of my
old useless stuff?

Oh, and as to Pack Weight, it goes for traveling too. I carry exactly one
complete change of clothes on the road, along with a few books and a laptop.
At one point on this trip I wore the same shirt 40 days in a row (washing it
and putting it back on every couple days), until it degraded to the point
where I wore it shirt shopping and tossed it in the garbage can next to the
fitting room.

Much like the author, I get a bit of a chuckle watching the first-timers
hauling expedition packs on their backs and "daypacks" larger than my main one
on their front. They're learning their lesson for next time.

------
elai
The annoying thing about stuff is that there is that tool or that nick nack
that you might use 5 times a year. You really really need it, and don't want
to buy it and dispose of it and waste the time of going to the store to find
it, so you just keep it in some box for when you do need it. It's usually not
big enough to rent or to deal with the hassle of renting so it can get pretty
irritating.

------
david927
My wife and I are selling pretty much everything we own: our house, our car,
most of our furniture, etc.

It feels scary and liberating at the same time.

~~~
ahk
Is selling a house in this market a good idea? The important thing is to not
let your possessions tie you down. If you own it outright, maybe you can just
rent your place out while you check to see if that sort of a life is for you
or not?

~~~
david927
We've gone through all the options. We don't own it outright and renting in
this market isn't that great either.

It took us a long time to come to this decision. We'll see...

------
dareiff
I don't think I'll ever get to this point, but I'm slowly working my way up.
Sold a few computers, excessive speakers, and more a few weeks ago to finish
paying off my collegiate credit card debt. It's unbelievably liberating.

------
steveklabnik
I just wrote about doing this myself recently, actually... getting rid of
stuff feels good.

Oh, and the obligatory pg: <http://www.paulgraham.com/stuff.html>

~~~
grinich
Link to your post?

~~~
tome
I guess he means this:

[http://blog.steveklabnik.com/where-there-is-no-property-
ther...](http://blog.steveklabnik.com/where-there-is-no-property-there-is-no-
injust?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+SteveKlabnik+%28Steve+Klabnik%29)

Also available via <http://flavors.me/steveklabnik#dd8/feed>

~~~
steveklabnik
Yes, thanks. I always feel like linking to myself is a bit... scummy. In some
way. Can't put my finger on why.

------
altano
Tip: pack up all your stuff and move somewhere smaller. In the new place,
unpack as you need/want things. In 2 months, throw out all the boxes left
over.

------
kiba
related story: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1140670>

In the article, the writer mentioned a Russian who went around buying
typewriters, stereos, and all sort of car parts. He couldn't believed that
these things were so cheap but he brought it anyway. In Russia, every one of
these part are extremely valuable. All of which are simply junk to the author.
So the Russian guy didn't quite adjust his value system yet.

Now, the author himself is faced with the fact that he is doing the same thing
as the Russian guy did years ago. A whole lot of things are completely
digitalized, such as video, musics, scholarly journals, and all these thing.
He throw 200 pounds worth of information into the dumpster as soon as he
realize that there are no more values in such papers, which are already
digitalized.

------
mcdowall
Nothing beats the feeling of a good "format c:"

------
gills
We learned just about the same lesson (maybe not so far as ditching the
insurance...) while backpacking the globe a year ago. Amazing the kind of junk
we've shed that used to be 'important' or 'valuable.'

------
gte910h
Yeah, I don't get the point of cancelling the insurance. Selling the house and
buying a smaller one would be a better idea.

Insurance doesn't buy stuff, it buys not having to worry and plan.

~~~
Qz
That's the trick -- you don't _actually_ have to worry or plan _without_
insurance.

~~~
stretchwithme
yes, but if having stuff is what works for you or you want to make sure
responsibilities are attended to even if you're not around, you probably need
insurance.

~~~
flipbrad
isn't that quite circular, in a thread about minimalist living?

~~~
stretchwithme
I don't know about it being circular, but if someone decides they need a
particular thing, making provisions so they can keep having it makes sense

~~~
Qz
'decides they need a particular thing'? Can I _undecide_ to need food and
water? I would argue that 'needs' are by definition the things you don't have
a choice about.

------
stretchwithme
It sounds good and feels good to get rid of all useful rarely used things that
clutter our minds as much as they do our homes.

Its unfortunate that our government is so committed to consumption and has
geared so much of our economy and infrastructure, at great expense and much
debt, to supporting a complex existence, often at great cost to those who swim
against the tide. Why is it that we cannot let life develop in its own
direction?

------
zakkap
that is very enlightening but unfortunate

~~~
fixie
Why unfortunate?

~~~
gte910h
They died.

~~~
naz
More info: <http://www.aldha.org/larry05.htm>

~~~
wherespaul
I'm sad to find this out. One thing I know is cycling is dangerous! I road my
bicycle 10,000 miles around the perimeter US and loved it but everyday on the
trip I would hope that I would not get hit by a car. Had a few close call on
the ride, but I made it home safe.

Here is a video of my ride: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8Uht3DnbOQ>

~~~
tszming
I have watched your video before, good job!

~~~
wherespaul
Thanks! That is cool that you actually saw it. Ha. I'm going to try to
complete the Pacific Crest Trail next year.

~~~
tszming
Good luck!

------
sliverstorm
It's difficult to simplify past a certain point. I want to reduce more, but
I'm at the point where I have:

1: Some clothes

2: Tools

3: Key things (laptop, vehicle, phone)

4: Books

5: Food and some dishes

I know tools and books are the next in line, but I value books highly and
tools just as much. I haven't got a tool I don't absolutely require at least
occasionally.

~~~
hwijaya
For books, get a Kindle. I did that 2 weeks ago. Since then I have sold or
given away most of my books. It took 1 more thing away.

~~~
briandarvell
I'm just waiting for my Sony PRS-600 to arrive. I hope it allows me to get rid
of a bunch of my fiction books too.

------
nopassrecover
I posted a comment on a similar article recently
(<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1332845>)

------
powellc
Am I the only one reading these comments that appreciates the need for some
people to settle down given that our current "nomadic" lifestyle is heavily
dependent on farms?

Last time I checked, none of these people were hunting and gathering with
their 14 pound packs. In fact, I would argue that were they to start deriving
all their food from hunting and gathering, their packs would increase in
weight by approximately one spear and probably a decent bow and arrow. A gun,
would of course, require people to work in a factory to manufacture it, so
that's out.

There seems to be a general ignorance amongst many people these days that
almost everything humans have accomplished started with domestication of
plants and animals. And a core element of domestication is a sedentary
lifestyle.

~~~
neilk
You're right. Modern nomadism isn't about leaving stuff behind, it's realizing
that stuff is now mobile.

