
Report to local authority in the UK if you see a kid using Tor, VMs, Linux etc. - Santosh83
https://twitter.com/G_IW/status/1227700420178567170
======
proactivesvcs
Ironically, if a child is seen to be using Windows 10, Android, Instagram,
YouTube, Facebook, then their parents and guardians need to ensure that the
children understand that such software and online services are a danger to
their privacy and mental health, and should warn them of how advertising will
manipulate them and cyberbullying harm them. That these entities do not care
about them or reducing any potential harm.

Our governments need to be curating or writing guides to help parents and
guardians teach children about these dangers and how to avoid them. Open
source software and online services that respect the user are entities to
cherish and encourage, rather than treat like a boogeyman who's earned the
title without any material evidence.

~~~
alias_neo
Actually they do; in the UK at least, the NCSC (National Cyber Security
Centre) provide lots of good information about cyber security, handling your
passwords properly, child safety online, as well as various guidelines for
other cyber security/safety online concerns.

[https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/section/information-
for/individuals-...](https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/section/information-
for/individuals-families)

Also, to note, the NCA replied on Twitter to point out that the use of their
logo on the poster was unauthorised and not endorsed.

~~~
proactivesvcs
Wow, that looks like a rather useful resource. I'm surprised this is the first
time I've come across it. Thank you for the informative pointer!

~~~
alias_neo
No problem. I work in info-sec/comms-sec in the UK and it's an invaluable
resource for guidelines on information handling and security practice. We
often refer to it when we want to set a policy in the company I work for, for
example on password strength in any given year.

I think it can be very useful also for startups that don't specialise in
security to make sane security policies based on something "official".

~~~
proactivesvcs
I'll be sending my residential and micro business customers to it, as well.
And it never hurts someone who thinks they're informed to read these guides.

------
rvz
This is close to parody-level solutions here. Although this really doesn't
represent the whole of the UK but just the West Midlands region, the age old
assumption that kids on Kali Linux + VBox + Discord = Hacking is really beyond
comical these days.

Unfortunately, when it comes to some parts of the UK marketing their solutions
to preventing cybercrime and blackhats, this is just one of their finest
ideas. /s

~~~
zozbot234
Kali Linux seems to have become popular as an "elite" d00d's distro of choice,
for whatever reason. In fact, it is _specifically_ intended as a penetration-
testing tool only and not for general-purpose use, because it forgoes some
security mitigations that you generally want to keep enabled on your actual
systems.

~~~
skocznymroczny
One big reason is the Mr Robot TV series. The main character uses Kali Linux
for "hacking", and it was quite a popular show amongst casual computer users.
As a result, many people who had limited knowledge about security started
installing Kali Linux on their laptops so they could be "hackers" too.

~~~
rbanffy
He always wore hoodies and nobody is talking about the dangers hoodies
represent ;-)

~~~
sincarne
Spoken as someone who's never been subjected the Daily Mail!

------
heartbeats
> 1\. Has your son asked you to change ISPs?

> 2\. Are you finding programs on your computer that you don't remember
> installing?

> 3\. Has your child asked for new hardware?

> 4\. Does your child read hacking manuals?

> 5\. How much time does your child spend using the computer each day?

> 6\. Does your son use Quake?

> 7\. Is your son becoming argumentative and surly in his social behaviour?

> 8\. Is your son obsessed with "Lunix"?

> 9\. Has your son radically changed his appearance?

> 10\. Is your son struggling academically?

The more things change, the more they stay the same, eh?

~~~
0xcde4c3db
For the uninitiated: "Is Your Son a Computer Hacker?" [1]

[1]
[https://web.archive.org/web/20191111044139/http://www.adequa...](https://web.archive.org/web/20191111044139/http://www.adequacy.org/public/stories/2001.12.2.42056.2147.html)

~~~
big_chungus
Wow. I honestly can't tell; is this satire? The sad thing is that this remains
many people's view of computers. The first thing this person is missing is the
ingenuity of people who want to get around stuff; some crummy filter or lower-
powered hardware won't dissuade anyone who's curious.

~~~
smhenderson
I felt the same, and still am not sure but if it wasn't, just wow. It felt
like just a naive parent not knowing what they're talking about but this one
had me really scratching my head...

 _If your son has requested a new "processor" from a company called "AMD",
this is genuine cause for alarm. AMD is a third-world based company who make
inferior, "knock-off" copies of American processor chips. They use child labor
extensively in their third world sweatshops, and they deliberately disable the
security features that American processor makers, such as Intel, use to
prevent hacking. AMD chips are never sold in stores, and you will most likely
be told that you have to order them from internet sites. Do not buy this chip!
This is one request that you must refuse your son, if you are to have any hope
of raising him well._

~~~
mendelmaleh
> and they deliberately disable the security features that American processor
> makers, such as Intel, use to prevent hacking

This aged well...

------
AdmiralAsshat
The NSA also thought visitors of LinuxJournal were "extremists," so what else
is new?[0]

[0][https://arstechnica.com/information-
technology/2014/07/the-n...](https://arstechnica.com/information-
technology/2014/07/the-nsa-thinks-linux-journal-is-an-extremist-forum/)

~~~
protomyth
I'm old enough to remember when Radio Shack was freaking people out by not
selling them things if they had some unknown combination of components bought.
They were so damn insistent on getting your address. Only store I always paid
cash at because I was on an electronics kick and my friend had been told he
was not allowed to buy some combination of components. That was friggin
hilarious (he was building a controller for a pump), and I bought the
components at another store location (Radio Shack was sadly the only game in
town at the time).

------
xet7
Oh no, should all kids that have Raspberry Pi be reported? When you see kid
using Linux on Raspberry Pi?

[https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/made-in-the-
uk/](https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/made-in-the-uk/)

~~~
cs02rm0
Kali Linux is a particular flavour which includes pen testing tools, which is
why it makes the list, they're not referring to all distributions.

Don't make me defend this rubbish! =)

~~~
beatgammit
I think all or at least most Linux distributions include pen testing tools in
their official repositories, Kali Linux just ships them out of the box. It
seems that most kids using Kali Linux do it because it's "elite" or whatever,
they don't know how to actually use it. I'm much more worried about a kid
running Debian than one running Kali Linux, if only because Debian isn't
"cool" so they must actually know what they're doing.

That being said, I don't expect law enforcement to be that sophisticated.

------
draugadrotten
Let's just hope that parents that are computer savvy enough to actually find
and identify kali linux on a kid's computer are smart enough to talk to their
kid instead of snitching on their own to the police.

------
mirimir
In postwar East Germany, about 1% of the population were reportedly informants
for Stasi.[0]

I wonder what percentage of parents get caught up in this. I bet that it's
more than 1%.

0) [https://www.dw.com/en/east-german-stasi-
had-189000-informers...](https://www.dw.com/en/east-german-stasi-
had-189000-informers-study-says/a-3184486-1)

~~~
motohagiography
Snitch culture is a very dangerous and contemptible thing. It's what kept
Cuba, NK, and the former soviet empire running. You just need to demoralize a
small minority to watch over their neighbours, reward them with something
petty, make a few big examples of individuals, and you can create a climate of
fear to rule with.

Where I grew up, teachers used to punish tellers along side the alleged
offender because it was bad for society.

~~~
heartbeats
> Where I grew up, teachers used to punish tellers along side the alleged
> offender because it was bad for society.

Absolute legend.

Where was this?

~~~
toyg
Not OP but wouldn’t be surprised if it was around the Med... in Italy there is
a kids’ saying that goes “a spy is not a child of Mary” (“chi fa la spia non è
figlio di Maria”), i.e. grasses are going to hell.

~~~
pnako
The south of Italy is entirely corrupted by organized crime, so I'm not sure
it's a very good example.

~~~
motohagiography
Hadn't thought of it, but given Catholic schools and area, so probably
similar. Early christians met in the catacombs of Rome, so the tradition of
keeping it between you and your priest (sub rosa) might relate to the culture.
Their whole mythology is about the consequences of betrayal to political
authorities.

I wonder if there is a link between these snitch cultures and
secularism/atheism. Rather puts a spin on "keeping it G," as well.

------
atoav
I am generally worried with were most of the anglosphere seems to be headed
these days. The UK always had an irrational fixation towards surrveilance
technology, but with a gaze at the political developements of the past years
this existing infrastructure gets a whole new meaning I am afraid

~~~
TheOtherHobbes
Yes. We're laughing at the idiocy, but the idiocy is becoming more and more
entrenched. And more and more idiotic.

And we're also missing the subtext - which isn't specifically about using Kali
etc, but about the implication that anyone clever, curious, and different
should be considered dangerous.

------
vibrafox
That's how it starts. One day you're rolling your own kernel, the next you're
knee deep in Docker writing goroutines to keep one step ahead of the police.

~~~
jcelerier
[https://xkcd.com/456/](https://xkcd.com/456/)

------
big_chungus
Kali's response is pretty funny:

> Have to admit it’s sort of nice they give kids a roadmap on where to get
> started. We all know the easiest way to get a kid to do something is to tell
> them they can’t or should not, then they list specific item not to do. To
> bad they did not link to [https://kali.training](https://kali.training)

Seriously though, I bet they'll get a bunch of people downloading this stuff
just because it's "forbidden".

------
techopoly
Reminds me of this article about a student whose property was seized because
he had computer expertise:

[https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/boston-college-
prompt-...](https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/boston-college-prompt-
commands-are-suspicious)

------
jeffadotio
"Have you ever, while running Linux, questioned the teachings of the Mormon
Church?"

"Micheal, where did you get this?"

"It's from a website."

------
dvh
1\. Find which politician uses Android

2\. Report them for using Linux

3\. ???

4\. Profit

------
AnIdiotOnTheNet
"Hey guys, isn't it funny how so many people have no idea what's dangerous or
not because we, as an industry, do an absolutely shit job of helping people
understand computing in any meaningful way?"

~~~
godelski
Science had this problem until scientific communicators became really popular,
which really started with Sagan. Since then I'm not sure we've had anyone near
that level, though deGrasse Tyson ("Black Science Man") does a pretty good job
(Sagan set a high bar). I'm not sure a character or even community like this
exists for tech.

------
UI_at_80x24
Something you may not know about Kali:

It is used by the DoD, Canada's DND, and the UK's MoD, and by extension I
assume all of the 5eyes.

It is the standard tool. This isn't "just because" they saw it on Mr.Robot.

~~~
aidenn0
So you're saying my kid is using military technology!

------
TallGuyShort
Reminiscent of this: [http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-
holding-our...](http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-
kids-back.html)

"I along with many others tried Linux during college"... but I never inhaled.

------
lastres0rt
Way to bury the lede -- DISCORD is considered 1337 Haxor Software by these
clowns? Really?

~~~
big_chungus
It's not, though there are a surprising number of servers that sell stuff like
hacked accounts, shady coupon codes, etc. Very little actual hacking; I don't
think I know anyone who uses it for anything serious. Also creepy as all get
out to tell people to call the police on their own children.

------
StanislavPetrov
What's really sad is the near certainty that there is some parent out there
who reported their child to the police for playing Quake and now that kid has
an official report floating around official networks flagging him for this. In
these days of data crunching, social credit scores, and all forms of
algorithmically driven assessments there's a significant chance that this
could damage that kid in ways he might never even find out about.

------
lozf
For some it seems Tom Scott's "Oversight" [0] can't come soon enough.

[0]([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIuf1V1FhpY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIuf1V1FhpY))

Well worth taking ~2 minutes out of your day for if you havent't seen it.

------
mnm1
This is one way to dumb down the population and fill them with fear. Given the
current events in the UK, neither of these goals are surprising. Anti-
intellectualism seems to be rising in many parts of the world and is clearly
correlated with the rise of right wing authoritarianism. It makes sense as
authoritarians want to keep people stupid and ignorant of what is going on by
controlling them through fear. This is what happens when the culture adopts
authoritarian views. The US isn't much better in this regard. One can really
see the similarities between the societies when looking at their worst
aspects, authoritarianism, anti-intellectualism, and fear mongering.

------
mirimir
Back when I was a child, it would have been about headphones with alligator
clips ;)

------
ZoomZoomZoom
I think it's tangential to the recent discussions of decreasing computer
literacy of modern children and teenagers.

Kids should break stuff apart, mess with the parts, try to reassemble them,
bypass obstacles, change everything, ruin it all and make it whole again in
their own ways. This is not just the natural way of learning, this is also the
base of engineering and all scientific thought. If have children (or know
someone who does) and don't encourage this behaviour, please reconsider.

Humans should be explorers, not the "consumers" of the universe.

------
Aeolun
I don’t know. I feel like the person that wrote this knew exactly what they
were doing, and also knew the joke would be completely lost on whoever asked
them to do this.

------
Kubuxu
I find this really funny as I had my parents buy me "Hacking: The Art of
Exploitation" in bookstore when I was 13.

------
collyw
If your kid is using any of these he probably has a promising career ahead of
him (or her).

------
pvorb
The response by Kali Linux nails it:
[https://mobile.twitter.com/kalilinux/status/1227703199584395...](https://mobile.twitter.com/kalilinux/status/1227703199584395267)

------
void_nill
Cool kids use Black Arch Linux.

------
Jonnax
It's pretty dangerous to use Virtualbox. Oracle might run after you for money.

------
cushychicken
No such thing as bad press :)

------
matheusmoreira
Nice advertising. Now those kids will know exactly what to download in order
to access the deep web and try out exploits. Do they not know about the
Streisand effect?

------
jpangs88
Also the title sounds funny, "What is on a child's computer?"

As well as the very 1984 like, "engage them into positive diversions." Great
copy!

------
philprx
Report your kid if he/she has a brain and is not getting brainwashed on
Facebook or YouTube.

This kind of thinking is really a bigger problem imho

------
Dim25
That's great, the more kids will play with Kali and other tools the better.
Rough times ahead, youngsters shall be empowered.

------
e12e
Oh, be mindful of VMS for sure. Eh, VMs, is it?

------
gurumeditations
Thanks, I didn’t know what Metasploit was before. An easy to use hacking tool
sounds very interesting to me...

------
dyingkneepad
Am I the only one surprised for seeing them mention Discord instead of IRC?

~~~
ryanlol
It’s only adults left on IRC these days, all the script kiddie chats happen on
Discord.

------
kingpiss
Your son could just be training to be a penetration tester.

------
nimbius
first, the email in the photo goes nowhere. its west-
midlands.pnn.police.co.uk, not "uk" unless DNS in the UK does something we're
not supposed to know about

Second, theres no mx or mailserver there...the SOA is AWS though...

THIRD:

If I see a kid with a $200 wireless hacking toolkit running TOR on a Kali KVM
hypervisor full of metasploit nodes and actively discussing the whole thing on
discord, and its _my_ kid, im calling the local university.

~~~
semanticist
Nope, police.uk is a real valid domain name that the UK police have been using
for years. That isn't a sign this is a fake, although it may well be.

Registrations at the second level of ccTLDs is not uncommon, and Nominet has
relatively recently opened .uk registrations to anyone, after a period of
trademark and .co.uk-holders only.

------
mlrtime
You wouldn't download a car?

------
DoctorOetker
sounds like infosec control freaks trampling civil right to self-development
as if their voluntary submission to work related "need to know" practices
extend to the public at large who did not sign the contracts they did...

whereas in the past people fought to get their skills recognized, soon people
will fight for skill privacy

------
josteink
But, uh, Russians and fake news, right?

------
ReptileMan
One of the reasons why I supported brexit as non UK european. Also their
attitude to knives.

------
pgoggijr
Don't really see the problem with this - the optimist in me believes that this
can be helpful for parents who might be in over their heads. The leaflet isn't
necessarily asking for vigilance to put kids on watch lists, just to give
parents and kids some information on what is/not wrong to do.

"let us know so we can give advice and engage them into positive diversions"

Sounds like police actually trying to have a positive impact here.

~~~
protomyth
Reporting your kid to the police for non-crimes will not have a positive
outcome. Your kid will be on a list, never trust you again, and have to
overcome so many more obstacles. Every generation of parents finds something
that is "over their heads" and they need to deal with it like responsible
adults. Know what your kid is interested in and not fear monger it. Deal with
issues like an adult with educating yourself.

~~~
homonculus1
Seconded. Police are not There To Help You. Police enforce the law. When in
doubt of the law, they simply enforce. Don't ever tip someone off to the
police unless you have a real reason to believe they have or will harm a
person.

~~~
pgoggijr
I know this is the internet echo chamber, but the police in my community, and
everywhere I have lived, provide a lot of outreach opportunities to under-
educated and under-privileged (east coast, USA, for reference).

~~~
protomyth
I'm friends with police in a hard to police area, and they are good people. It
really has nothing to do with the normal functioning of their community
outreach or the individuals themselves. I find my friends are intelligent and
care about folks.

Its the system you put your kid into by calling the police on them. Police
don't have choices in a lot cases and the system around them has a lot of
rules that capture people in them for years.

