
Back to Microsoft: Using Windows again so I can use Linux effectively - eldridgea
https://blog.eldrid.ge/2020/01/13/back-to-microsoft/
======
bilekas
So how exactly is using the WSL using Linux more effectively ?

Is that not the same as claiming that : Using Wine so I can use Windows more
effectively ?

I'm really not sure from your article what you were missing, on either
Windows/Linux side.. You didnt mention any Windows/Linux specifics, just that
you tried the WSL and it worked. Which is cool..

But if you're just worried about using linux more effectively.. Just use linux
?

~~~
ryanmcdonough
As he said:

“ I began looking for dockable tablets with USB-C and the ability to do Linux
work on them while also having good battery life, and relatively painless wifi
and bluetooth. While there are some great preloaded Linux devices out there
(e.g. Dell XPS, System76, Purism Librem) all either lacked a tablet mode,
USB-C , or both. Macs lacked tablet mode, and also have been using a keyboard
design recently that I don’t personally like very much.”

None of the OOTB Linux laptops offered either a tablet mode, usb-c or both,
same for the Mac. The clue was in the content.

~~~
bilekas
Yeah I kinda get it now, but it's still a bit strange for me. I've never
shopped for an OOTB linux laptop, nor do I understand why thats a requirement,
gnome as supported tablet mode for years too. So was all a bit confusing what
the relevance of those 'clues' where.

~~~
x0054
Not everyone wants to spend time on setting up drivers and figuring out why
something no longer works after an update, even if they have the skills. I can
setup Linux on almost any HW, I choose not too, and use Mac and Windows
instead because I have better things to do with my time. Out of the box
hardware works out of the box and allows you to do something you actually
enjoy. If you enjoy setting up and maintaining Linux, by all means, you should
do so, but other people have other hobbies.

Mind you, it’s not like MacOS or Windows are a joy to setup either, especially
on obscure hardware, but if you buy first party hardware, that hard work is
usually done by people who get paid to make it their full time “hobby” so I
don’t have to.

As an example, there is a YouTube dude who does nothing but installs Linux
distorts. He is an expert VIM user even though he doesn’t code, just edits
config files and plays in the terminal while looking super serious. I spend
time in VSCode writing actual code. It’s less cool looking but far more
productive for me to use MacOS for that. To each their own.

~~~
bilekas
> Not everyone wants to spend time on setting up drivers and figuring out why
> something no longer works

Cool, for starters, linux is not like that anymore, I remember setting up BSD
from a copy from a magazine, that's not how it is today thank god so that
point is as useless for this context.

> it’s not like MacOS or Windows are a joy to setup either, especially on
> obscure hardware

Ok; now we are loading full OS's up,(on obscure hardware?) bit of change of
focus from your last comment. But whatever. Nobody in their working mind needs
to load up a bootstraped OSX+n so unless you're a complete pirate who requires
sketch, you better have a hook and an eye patch before i'll entertain your
fallacy. Windows is super easy, maybe more than your mom, as we're all
throwing ideas out?.

Your last one is kinda too comical to make fun of..

> As an example, there is a YouTube dude who does nothing but installs Linux
> distorts. He is an expert VIM user even though he doesn’t code, just edits
> config files and plays in the terminal while looking super serious. I spend
> time in VSCode writing actual code. It’s less cool looking but far more
> productive for me to use MacOS for that. To each their own.

Yeah, to each their own. But, we're talking about one article, one very
specific article, actually, we are again talking about 1 article. Not
examples.

But, this was fun. Moron.

I'll be sure to take all your comments/nonsense with a glacier of salt.

If you'd like some attention for your work, do something and share it, the OP
had the balls to do write something and accept my criticism, where is yours ?
You're a bit worse than that little shit i take after I've taken a shit.. The
inconvenience.

------
striking
I'm a heavy UNIX user and believer. I hate Windows enough to have run it
inside a VM on Linux, taking the pains to set up GPU passthrough so I can get
graphical acceleration without ceding control of my computer to Microsoft.

But that was on a desktop. And although the Year of the Linux Desktop may very
well be upon us, I have to agree with the article.

There is a lot of really powerful, really slim, really convenient hardware
that can't easily be used with Linux. I'm planning to buy a laptop soon. It's
not going to be a Thinkpad.

Can someone provide a counterpoint to this article, perhaps in the form of a
convenient tablet-like machine (like a Surface Pro) that can run Linux without
too much hackery? I'm willing to compile kernels if that's what it takes. But
I would like for those things to eventually work once I do.

~~~
45ure
You might have some deeper reasons other than those described in your comment,
but I genuinely don't understand why you would vehemently oppose robust
hardware, which not only enjoys industry wide acceptance, but also provides
the most favourable conditions for running *nix, modding and upgrading.
Instead, you have cornered yourself and seek an inferior alternative solution,
without wanting to get your hands dirty ─ which consequently makes your life
even harder?

~~~
striking
I want something I can easily carry with me. You're not wrong in that it's
mostly impossible to modify these devices, but I don't think being able to mod
these devices really provides you with a ton of lift anyway.

And I'm okay with getting my hands dirty, but I'm just one person with hopes
and dreams. Maybe I can write _one_ kernel module but I don't think I could
build everything needed for a comfortable experience.

------
akho
WSL 2 is better in very critical ways. WSL 1 occasionally corrupts SQLite
databases. It’s a problem for anyone, but especially if you use Nix, where an
SQLite db is a single point of failure. I had it happen to me.

On the other hand, WSL 1’s network interface is the machine one, and WSL 2 is
a VM. So X server setup is a bit more tricky.

Windows Terminal does not support the mouse — no easy Vim window / tmux pane
resizing. I use WSLtty (but haven’t managed to set it up to render emoji. )

It’s a bit difficult to maintain configs for everything to work in WSL, on
macOS, and in Linux.

~~~
loopz
After spending half day trying to get CygwinXFree and XMing to work _properly_
, I just realized it's never going to be better, on Windows.

~~~
akho
I’m mostly fine using native GUI apps. Not like I use much except a browser,
messengers, and Office.

VcXsrv was largely painless, as far as I remember.

~~~
loopz
VcXsrv works without pain! Thx a bunch!

------
throwlaplace
one thing about the tablets with detachable keyboards i don't like is the
kickstand is the only way to prop up the body. that makes it tough to use one
from your lap for example. i realize there are 2-1s (i.e. laptops that have a
hinge) but i wish there were a tablet with a detachable keyboard that could
prop up the tablet using a hinge. the problem of course is the keyboard aren't
rigid themselves so you can't hinge anything from them.

~~~
christophilus
I think you’re looking for something like the Surface Book:
[https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-
book-2/8mcpzjjcc98...](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-
book-2/8mcpzjjcc98c)

~~~
throwlaplace
like i said i'm familiar with 2-1s that fold over. what i'm looking for is a
case like this

[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01C7AU8IY/ref=psdc_11548963011_t1...](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01C7AU8IY/ref=psdc_11548963011_t1_B01AWGYT0I)

but for my dell 5285 (basically a surface)

~~~
christophilus
The surface book has a removable but rigid keyboard. So, it seems to fit the
criteria. Am I misunderstanding your criteria?

~~~
throwlaplace
oh interesting. sorry i didn't realize the keyboard was removable on the
surface book. that is in fact what i was imagining. thanks!

------
natas_claus
+1 for the Surface Pro 7. I recently bought one as a companion for my mb pro
(still the daily driver) and I love it. Windows 10 is not bad either.

------
sneak
No amount of cool hardware or linux integration will ever cause me to run
Microsoft’s spyware OS ever again.

~~~
thrill
In many corporate and enterprise environments it's a requirement for the
desktop. At a previous job I had this limitation, though all my work was
managing their few hundred Linux servers. I used VMware Workstation to keep my
head in the Linux environment, and because a proper bash and vim and ssh is my
minimum. Now, I would use WSL2, as it's more than up to the task, and
noticeably faster.

As for the Surface, I bought my wife a Surface X for Christmas, so of course
my trusty Yoga needed depot repair right as she got it. She was kind enough to
let me take it for the couple of weeks it's been away, and I went through the
process of upgrading it to 10 Pro, installing WSL2, etc. It works mostly well,
except for Docker.

There's not a functional Docker for ARM64 unless I build it myself, which I
haven't felt a strong enough desire to do. But, the tablet itself is nice,
once I got used to the smaller keyboard.

~~~
anaisbetts
If you use WSL2 you can use the version of Docker packaged for your Linux
distro instead of using the Windows Docker, you have to start dockerd yourself
but then it Just Works

~~~
m_mueller
Are there ARM64 binaries for docker? What about all the common images, they
come in arm versions too?

