

Valve is bringing Steam to your TV Today - zachinglis
http://kotaku.com/5941793/valve-is-bringing-steam-to-your-tv-today-watch-out-consoles

======
weego
The most interesting part of that article for me is the "lotus" approach to
using a controller to map to a full keyboard. Event at first glance is looks
incredibly elegant and indicates that they have some serious thinking talent
in there which bodes well for the bigger picture (if I can use such a pun).

~~~
fuzzix
I am trying hard (and failing) to recall a game which had a mechanism like
this for entering names etc.

I _think_ it was Killzone on PS2, but can't be certain.

~~~
CrazedGeek
I can't find a reference, but there was a PSP homebrew app that had a keyboard
very similar to this. In addition, I saw a similar keyboard at a CS fair at my
university last year. It's not new, just not particularly widely used.

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typicalrunt
I love this idea, and it is definitely the right way to go. Unlocking the TV-
playing audience is something that made Microsoft and Sony a lot of money over
the years. It will put Valve miles ahead of any other competitor out there
(though, the competitors will just copy the idea -- which is fine). The next
hurdle for Valve is how to get their Big Picture service to the customer on
their TV.

One way to do that is a game streaming service, but OnLive is floundering and
Ouya is too far away for that. If Valve goes the other way and ships a set-top
computer, that might help but now they're in the same race that MS and Sony
are in with their console lifecycle.

~~~
corin_
A small note about Ouya: it isn't a game streaming service. You will be able
to run OnLive on it - no different to how you can run OnLive on a PC right now
(maybe slightly different if OnLive is installed by default, but still..) -
other than that, Ouya has nothing to do with game streaming.

Would you mind sharing why you think of Ouya as related to streaming? It's not
an uncommon thought, I know plenty of people who work in the games industry
who have the same misconception about it, so I presume something sometime
caused this?

~~~
typicalrunt
Sure thing. And thanks for calling me on that, because I was completely wrong
about the Ouya for some reason.

I think of Ouya as a game streaming device because:

(a) this seems to be the direction a lot of companies are headed in;

(b) the device itself is so small[1] that it seems like it can't run a
powerful game, so I just mentally jumped to the conclusion that it is a
streaming device; and

(c) the pictures I keep seeing on news websites and such are of the game
controller, not the device itself, so I assumed that it was similar to the
OnLive service (I recall their ads only showing the game controller as well).

[1] It has the same footprint of an Apple TV or Roku box.

~~~
corin_
Thanks - I wonder if this was cleverly misleading marketing or accidental,
whether many people thought the same as you or just a small minority, and if
many whether that will help / has helped or hinder/ed Ouya sales...

Food for thought, anyway.

------
thirdsun
This looks good. So, what's the status quo on capable living room PCs? I have
been using Macs and a PS3 for years now, but if there was a small and good
looking box that could handle modern games this might be an option for me. Any
recommendations?

~~~
MartinCron
I recently built a few living-room/gaming PCs which was pretty cheap, and a
great learning experience for my 10-year-old son, who is delighted to talk
about building his own computer. Most gaming graphics cards these days have
HDMI out, which is all you really need.

The folks at Dell/Alienware have made a small box to fit exactly the need
you're thinking about, I decided not to go with it because it wasn't available
with an SSD, but it's an impressive little bundle.
<http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-x51/pd.aspx>

~~~
thirdsun
Thanks - I would probably put something together with individual parts, as I
already did back when we needed to connect PCs to our not so flat TVs via VGA,
Component or SCART Adapters. However that box you linked to has a nice form
factor and price tag. Not a fan of the Sci-Fi design though, but I just looked
for some cases and there's some good stuff available - seems like a performant
and A/V-receiver-seized PC is easy to pull off.

~~~
MartinCron
I used this case for my buildout. It's small, but supports full-size graphics
cards and multiple internal hard drive bays. It's more or-less invisible on my
bookshelf next to other components. It also doesn't have any drive bays, which
looks very sleek and I just download everything from Steam (or similar) these
days anyway.

[http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112...](http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112339&Tpk=PC-Q25B)

~~~
thirdsun
Yes, that's exactly what I already had in mind. To be honest until yesterday I
didn't even realize that Mini-ITX could handle the newer sockels and a decent
PCIe graphic card. But with knowing that, this is a very good alternative to a
console.

------
Lockyy
Sounds interesting, I just wish I had an adapter for my 360 controller so I
could test it out on my TV. I'll play with it on my PC for now.

I'd definitely be interested in building a PC that's small enough to fit under
my TV, but powerful enough to run any of my steam games. I wonder if there
might be a market in producing those for people. I assume that's what the
steam-box is going to be, but apart from this I don't see any hints of that
coming out soon.

~~~
talmand
Small computer under your TV depends on the games you play. If like to play
Valve's games then it's a tough call because most likely that little box will
have fan noise you may not care for. You can make such a box that can play
most of the games on Steam just fine without requiring a robust cooling
system. You just may not be playing the latest and greatest high-end 3D games;
based solely on how much fan noise you are willing to accept.

If you look around there's already a somewhat healthy market of pre-built
computers for that purpose. Most of them are HTPC types but some of them can
be upgraded enough that will play games nicely.

~~~
chaostheory
> If like to play Valve's games then it's a tough call because most likely
> that little box will have fan noise you may not care for.

I think a lot of gamers including myself can tolerate the fan noise,
especially if you have a good sound system. The earlier generations of Xbox
360 were really horrible for fan noise, and most people needed an extra 3rd
party fan to keep it from becoming defective; which adds another level of
noise (it took me four years before I had a red ring problem). I don't think
this was even fixed until the latest gen in 2010.

~~~
talmand
Oh, it's quite true we can tolerate it when more than likely your setup
involves your speakers being closer to your ear than the fans in your box. I'd
have to imagine most PC gamer's setups are like this. But for a PC hooked up
to a TV is not the same unless you are using a surround sound system of some
type.

Plus, depending on the games, many PC gamers use headphones.

But that's PC gamers though, I see your point about your 360. Your example is
basically what I'm saying, I don't think many people would care for that very
much. When it comes to electronics connected to the TV the most common
experience is that they produce no noise.

Most HTPCs are built to perform their duty with little to no fan noise but
putting in a proper discrete video card can ruin that. You can get accustomed
to it over time but you have to get over that initial unfamiliar white noise
coming from the general direction of your TV.

The reason I feel that this is important is that if Steam were to start being
used on a typical TV environment it will expand beyond games. They've already
tested the waters with one movie, granted it was very relevant to their
market. Steam is already well suited to be an iTunes and/or Netflix type
service.

~~~
chaostheory
> I'd have to imagine most PC gamer's setups are like this. But for a PC
> hooked up to a TV is not the same unless you are using a surround sound
> system of some type.

My Xbox 360 along with the 3rd party fans sounded like a leaf blower. You
don't need a good surround system, you just need to turn the volume up on your
TV or get a cheap sound bar. With PC's it's even cheaper to get a 2.1 speaker
system that does the job for like $20.

> But that's PC gamers though, I see your point about your 360. Your example
> is basically what I'm saying, I don't think many people would care for that
> very much.

People still care but many either tolerate it or work around it based on the
games.

~~~
talmand
Turning up the volume to cover up the white noise is not an ideal solution and
in many cases not a solution at all. A neighbor in an apartment building may
not care for the extra noise coming through the wall. I feel your 360 example
is supporting my thought, fan noise is an issue that different people handle
differently. You accepted the additional level of white noise in the situation
but it's not reasonable to assume every else will too.

> People still care but many either tolerate it or work around it based on the
> games.

Of which I totally agreed with. My point is that it's an issue because I
expect Steam to expand beyond games. If the box is not built with this in mind
then it's a potential issue. To expand into the TV audience market you'll need
a box that won't make noise that people who are not accustomed to may not
like.

~~~
chaostheory
> If the box is not built with this in mind then it's a potential issue. To
> expand into the TV audience market you'll need a box that won't make noise
> that people who are not accustomed to may not like.

I think there's a bigger problem than noise if they want to expand beyond
techies and gamers. Ease of installation comes to mind. It's hard to compete
against the Apple TVs, Rokus, PS3's and Xbox 360s on that end.

------
sandGorgon
Mobile. This is just screaming for mobile. Please let me dock my 2013 mobile
phone with 4 GB RAM and 4 Kepler-PhysX cores with my HDTV and let me play
Crysis on it.

You dont even need to port Crysis to be a "mobile" game (touchscreen, etc.).
You just need to make it run on the hardware using Android/ios.

I'll bring the Dualshock.

~~~
heretohelp
>let me dock my 2013 mobile phone with 4 GB RAM and 4 Kepler-PhysX cores with
my HDTV and let me play Crysis on it.

Hahahaha, no. (I love the non-gamers on HN. So optimistic. Go look at the
current state of emulation and hardware power, it's a bleak situation.)
Current desktop graphics technology is still only sorta able to run the
Cryengine at full speed, and they're pumping out on the order of 1000(mid-
grade)-2500(high-end) GFLOPS.

An iPhone is somewhere between 5 and 15 GFLOPS. So unless we're going to have
a 100x leap in graphics bandwidth, I wouldn't expect to be able to play
desktop quality PC games off of a mobile phone anytime soon.

Even my CPU (2500k) has higher throughput than the iPhone GPU, at 50-100
depending on the benchmark.

Should be able to run a poker game or Farmville though.

~~~
ANH
I think your definition of "gamer" is different from mine. We don't all play
the AAA titles.

I write 3D code for mobile devices, and I'm continually astonished by what
these things are capable of, i.e. your comment about poker and Farmville is a
bit too much snark. Besides, it seems you're equating game quality with poly
count. There are a lot of visually stunning, intelligent games that run great
on phones that would be perfect on a larger screen.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Honestly, if they can just get TF2 running on an Android phone with HDMI
output at over 30FPS, I'd be happy.

~~~
lazugod
Did any of the mobile GG2 attempts pan out?

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
As in Gang Garrison 2?

Not really. A Python port, PyGG2, is currently in development, and that
_might_ have a chance of mobile support, but I don't expect so. The current
GG2 is written in Game Maker. While GM has cross-platform
Mac/HTML5/iOS/Android support, we use a custom-built windows-only networking
library, so this isn't really an option. Also, we've been meaning to migrate
away from GM for quite some time, due to its performance and limitations.

(I used to be a GG2 and PyGG2 dev...)

------
vibrunazo
> No, this new "Steam TV" isn't going to make our video game consoles go away.
> It's not going to turn your Xbox into a doorstop or obviate your PS3

Not by itself, but summed with mobile it will:
[http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/when-the-consoles-die-
wha...](http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/when-the-consoles-die-what-comes-
next)

------
ChuckMcM
This is something that Zynga should be concerned about. It could be very
disruptive to their model. When I saw Gregoire's 'HDMI Dongle' [1] I thought,
hmm, here is a way to add value to a TV in a way that doesn't require getting
permission from TV makers first. All you need is a decent UI and a social
network and all sorts of things are possible.

No idea how Valve is implementing their vision but the idea of having casual
games be available like this on a subscription service can be really nice if
done well.

[1] <http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/products/hdmidongle.htm>

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watty
Many people already have HTPC's with Steam to run games on their TV. The only
thing this enables (or simplifies) is the use of a gamepad. It still requires
an HTPC physically connected to your TV .

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borlak
So I connect my PC to the TV to use a Steam UI, thereby limiting what I can do
with the PC...okay

Basically it's just a UI for using a controller while lounging.

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wtetzner
What I'd like to see now is an integrated XPadder-style system to allow for
playing games.

XPadder works OK, but it's kind of a pain to use. It would be nice if you
could set up a configuration for a game once, and Steam would remember it
every time you played the game.

It would also be nice if people could share their configurations, and maybe
when you buy a new game, it would default to the highest rated game-pad
configuration.

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mladenkovacevic
Time to see how well this will work on my tiny diy Llano-based HTPC. I can
play Portal smoothly via Steam on my 5-year old Opteron desktop running Ubuntu
so I hope I will have no problems with the A6.

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nvmc
<http://pastebin.com/73QHDqm4>

For those of us who don't want to give Kotaku pageviews.

~~~
yen223
Why don't some of us want to give Kotaku pageviews?

~~~
nvmc
Owned by Gawker, most of their articles are poorly written and with little
substance. Not the kind of journalism I want to encourage.

------
Splines
After using Windows 8 for awhile, I wished there was a way to interact with it
through a controller - I think it would work quite well.

~~~
barranger
This has to be one of the biggest mistakes MS has made with Windows 8. They've
added the store to (theoretically) make it simple to purchase and play games
(and apps), but left out support that many people would prefer when playing
these games.

------
DigitalJack
I'm always confused about Steam news from Valve. In this case it seems to
actually be what I expect when I read something about Steam: the clientside
application of their game distribution tech.

So many times people talk about Steam when it seems they are really talking
about the Source Engine. It's almost a shock to see an article about Steam
that really is about the client app.

------
nicholassmith
This looks like it might twist the arms (myself included) of the console
generation back to the PC.

~~~
shinratdr
Why? From what I can tell it's just a 10-foot interface shoehorned into the
existing version of Steam. I don't think anyone was waiting for this. Why
would they be? It doesn't solve the principal issues, like why would I game at
a crappier second PC that I have to separately maintain just to have the
benefit of the couch?

Why would I put my good desktop in the living room just so I can use a
controller in a more traditional environment? I can use a KB/mouse and a
controller at my desk or in bed. Steam isn't going to magically be able to
bring the graphical quality and versatility of the PC (which are it's primary
benefits) to the living room without being forced to sacrifice most of it.

The dev time spent on this would have been much better used as an investment
towards a home streaming technology. The Steam box should be an OnLive
mircoconsole that uses your desktop PC running Steam as the server. It's
perfectly possible, Apple does that exact thing via AirPlay except it uses
your iPhone as the server. Try Real Racing 2 on a 1080p AppleTV, your doubts
about the technology should vanish.

As it stands, this isn't notable news for anyone unless you're the type to be
willing to build and maintain two gaming PCs just so you can play in two
different rooms. If you are that type, something tells me lack of a 10-foot
interface wasn't the obstacle in your way.

Either that, or be willing to compromise on graphical quality and versatility
pretty heavily to get a cut down PC with standardized specs that you can put
in the living room for cheaper...

...Wait, isn't that just a console?

~~~
cbs
_I don't think anyone was waiting for this._

Did you mean to say "This doesn't fit my particular use case."? I can name a
dozen people off the top of my head that will be excited about this.

General purpose computers are general purpose enough that your attempts to
predict the shapes people have their setups arranged in falls flat on its
face.

 _As it stands, this isn't notable news for anyone unless you're the type to
be willing to build and maintain two gaming PCs just so you can play in two
different rooms._

Or keep the beefy computer in the living room as thats the only place they
play PC games (as I do).

Or have a TV in their bedroom / want to point their monitor towards the bed
and lay back to play (think kids living at home/dorms).

Or don't completely shit their pants over the idea of moving a box from one
room to another.

Or are OK with using this box for some not-top-of-the-line games on the couch.
The exciting indie titles don't have the budget necessary to make graphically
demanding titles. And No, that isn't just a console. Releasing onto a console
(even to XBLA) has monetary and certification requirements some developers
can't meet or are unwilling to compromise their game to meet.

------
brandoncapecci
Is there any word on when the Mac beta will roll out?

------
jlebrech
they could release steam for xbox and ps3 which would stream steam from the pc
to that console.

~~~
wbobeirne
Good luck trying to get Sony or MS to allow a third party app store on their
closed platforms.

------
ctdonath
Big Picture + Raspberry Pi?

~~~
kayoone
too underpowered for Steam games

~~~
jamesgeck0
Nah, there's plenty of low end games on Steam. A larger issue is that neither
Steam nor any of the games sold through it will run on an ARM processor.

------
ChrisNorstrom
I personally envisioned this to come with hardware (wireless HDMI)
[[http://www.chrisnorstrom.com/2011/02/creation-the-steam-
cons...](http://www.chrisnorstrom.com/2011/02/creation-the-steam-console-no-
its-not-another-set-top-box/)] so that you wouldn't have to have another box
next to the TV but instead could keep your PC in your room and just transmit
it's audio/video/controller input over to your living room.

From what I've heard wireless HDMI is not at that level of stability and
reliability yet.

