
Kenyan girls who code: Mentors spur African tech innovations - kafkaesq
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-37489006
======
im3w1l
I want to remind everyone of the article we had some time ago about men
failing out of society in the west because they are too lazy and play video
games all they. Then predictable we get another article and then another about
changing society to better fit women.

The outcome for men is determined by their choices (= they are subjects,
actors). The outcome for women is determined by how society acts towards them
(=they are passive objects). That dualism is objectifying of women.

~~~
shoo
the women in this article we are commenting on (both the mentors and the
students) have agency, and this is clearly conveyed by the article.

in many societies - traditional and modern - we observe structural
discrimination against women. so "outcomes" for women are more heavily
constrained by society than "outcomes" for men. if i look up the definition of
"objectification" i find one aspect of it as "denial of autonomy – treating
the person as lacking in autonomy or self-determination". so it might be a
stretch to say that society objectifies women according to this definition,
but i'd certainly agree that society tends to restrict/limit the autonomy /
self-determination of women more than it does men.

under that interpretation i roughly agree with your statement of "that dualism
is objectifying of women", in the sense of that being a crudely accurate
description of the reality of what society does, and i'd go further and claim
that is not acceptable, and something we should endeavour to change, by
changing society: "affirmative action", "positive discrimination", etc.

was this the point you were trying to make, or were you trying to argue the
opposite conclusion?

edit: would it make any difference if it were women who were driving the
changes to society that would benefit them and other women? would that be
acceptable or would that be a case of women objectifying themselves and
denying their own agency by taking action?

------
hackuser
It would be interesting, and great, if in this culture women did the math.
Women used to have the role of doing calculations in the U.S. (and elsewhere
in the West), back in the 30s and 40s before computers.

As an example of how gender roles can vary, I was in the Himalayas and in the
local culture, the women did the physical labor. They carried our (heavy) bags
where we stayed, and I regularly saw them carrying massive loads of firewood,
on their backs, bent double, up and down mountain trails. I'm not sure what
the men did; I only saw them playing cards and drinking (tea?).

------
noobermin
Are there similar programs for engineering? I'd imagine many of the challenges
in the developing world require technological innovations that involve
engineering challenges, not just mobile apps.

~~~
sadlyNess
There's this [http://imgur.com/a/livAB](http://imgur.com/a/livAB) . They go
around schools and get kids to work on simple electronics projects. Just
started and only concentrating on primary schools, but I think they plan to
expand to high schools(and thus engineering & programming) if they get
funding.

------
nickpsecurity
Often a talk about better startups coming from a genuine need that started
with someone's aggravation about an unnecessary problem. I think people
getting robbed during unnecessary queues is an unusual and great example. From
a security background, I'm not sure that this would eliminate the problem as
crooks might adapt or focus more. It was a really, good attempt. I could see
it taking off just from increased convenience and reduced risk of
opportunistic robberies. Too bad that team didn't win.

~~~
sdenton4
One of the big selling points for mpesa - the mobile money service in Kenya -
is that it allows transferring money made in the city back to family in the
countryside without risking robbery on the travel home. (And makes the
transfer much faster, too.) Reducing queues to prevent robbery is a great
motivation for building and using the app.

------
krmboya
This is excellent.. with more people here (Kenya) getting internet at home due
to falling prices and affordable wifi hotspots cropping up in various
locations, I'm sure the next few years are going to be very interesting for
tech in Kenya.

------
aaron695
We have spent years trying to get gender equality in the West and now as
colonials we expect it just to happen in country X.

How about we start by getting a ecosystem of coders first as 'we' did then
specialise on working on gender and other equalities.

I know it doesn't make people feel good but it worked for us.

~~~
skoczymroczny
While we're at it, we should introduce some diversity to Kenya, black people
are overrepresented there at almost all jobs.

