
Noam Chomsky: 'There's never been a moment in human history' like this one - brzozowski
https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/514212-noam-chomsky-theres-never-been-a-moment-in-human-history-like-this-one
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caymanjim
Way to throw the hyperbole, Noam. "Right now" doesn't even crack the top five
most historically-important periods in the past century, much less all of
human history. There are some unusual things going on right now, but the only
one that's going to be remembered in a few decades is Covid. By most other
metrics, it's business as usual.

From an American perspective, it's absurd to elevate "now" above the Great
Depression, World War 2, the Vietnam War, and the massive social and political
changes accompanying each, to name just three eras in the past century. Tack
on another century, and now doesn't even make it into the textbook.

Yeah, there's never been another moment like this, but that's true always and
forever. There are some big things going on all the time. Add them all up, and
this is a pretty bland time in the grand scheme of things.

~~~
guerrilla
That's only if things turn out fine. It seems like he thinks nuclear war is
actually possible and the effects of climate change are coming soon and big.
If that's so (I'm not saying it is) then what could possibly be comparable?

~~~
aaron695
> It seems like he thinks nuclear war is actually possible and the effects of
> climate change are coming soon and big. If that's so (I'm not saying it is)
> then what could possibly be comparable?

That is a tautology kinda.

If we assume something that's bigger than anything else happens, what was
bigger.

Nuclear war is silly, because The Cuban Missile crisis was scarier and
probably would have been worse if it had of kicked off.

If climate change all happens in a year instead of 100 years, it's big, but
not that big. You'd notice it less that the coronavirus.

~~~
tome
> If climate change all happens in a year instead of 100 years, it's big, but
> not that big. You'd notice it less that the coronavirus.

That's interesting. Can you say more about that? It's very much counter to the
conventional wisdom (mass death, mass migration, mass starvation, destruction
of coastal civilisation, etc..)

~~~
aaron695
> mass starvation

Due to my hyperbole it's a hard argument that if 100 years happens in one year
it'll all be ok.

But yields from crops will improve in some areas and weaken in others

[https://www.nato.int/docu/review/articles/2011/02/18/food-
se...](https://www.nato.int/docu/review/articles/2011/02/18/food-security-the-
seed-of-solution-is-already-here/index.html)

So there will be no mass starvation long term, after this super climate change
year.

But I see no reason in the USA and Europe if they know what will happen with
climate in a year, all the big farms won't adapt within that year.

To put all that change into a year will hammer the poor, but they will adapt
within years and I'd see no reason the richer countries couldn't prop them up
during the change over.

It's a tough hypothetical. The Netherlands probably couldn't do 100 years of
climate change in a year for their dykes... I'm not sure. Maybe they could.

The coronavirus is also a big deal, you'll feel it for decades. What worries
about it, is lost time. We are destroying time doing nothing during C19.
Climate change 100 years -> 1 year, you'd lost a lot of stuff, but things
would plod along.

------
haunter
If he means human history = US history then maybe. 1 out of those 5 are very
US specific right now (racial unrest). The raging pandemic is once again
regional where US is the worst globally but I'd not apply to the same to
Europe and not at all to East Asia. The remaining 3 for sure a global problem
but even then I do not think a chance for a nuclear war is higher than before
say in the Cold War

~~~
kasperni
> If he means human history = US history then maybe.

Don't most posts on HN?

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briga
Technically true for all moments in human history

------
nemoniac
I'm aghast that Noam Chomsky is getting flagged on HN.

------
aww_dang
Doomsayers should understand that opponents hear the following:

"This time is different. The end is nigh. Our only hope is for heathens to
ascribe to our morally superior political ideology and central planning.
Heretic unbelievers must accept the gospel truths of technocracy and
scientism!"

Make what you will of that, but there must be a more effective way to
communicate. Doomsaying is not uncommon. Nor are ideologues seeking power
while claiming the mantle of "collective good". Suspicion is not unwarranted.

Please don't read this as a denial of the existence of backward and regressive
individuals. Thanks.

~~~
guerrilla
> central planning

If they hear that then they must not know that Chomsky has spent his life
arguing against central planning and "technocracy." He's literally an
anarchist. [1]

[1]. [https://chomsky.info/19760725/](https://chomsky.info/19760725/)

~~~
aww_dang
This lacks nuance for me.

>"CHOMSKY: Let me just say I don’t really regard myself as an anarchist
thinker."

[https://books.google.com/books/about/Internationalism_Or_Ext...](https://books.google.com/books/about/Internationalism_Or_Extinction.html?id=o3zADwAAQBAJ&redir_esc=y)

From the summary of: "Internationalism or Extinction", his new book.

>The introduction and accompanying interviews place these dual threats in a
framework of unprecedented corporate global power which has overtaken nation
states’ ability to control the future and preserve the planet. Chomsky argues
for the urgency of international climate and arms agreements, showing how
global popular movements are mobilizing to force governments to meet this
unprecedented challenge to civilization’s survival.

He's an anarchist who doesn't regard himself as an "anarchist thinker". He's
against central planning, but laments the state's failing ability to "control
the future and preserve the planet". He argues for supranational governance to
protect civilization.

The proposed solutions seem at odds with the assertion that he is against
central planning. I'm not sure if it is fair to define him as an ideologue
within narrow political terms. Perhaps it is a case of pragmatism overtaking
ideals?

------
warrenq
[https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-failed-eco-
pocalyp...](https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-failed-eco-pocalyptic-
predictions)

~~~
puranjay
Just because they got the dates wrong doesn't mean that they got the trend
wrong.

~~~
tome
"Correctly predicted 10 of the last 0 eco-pocolypses" comes to mind.

[Adjust the figures as you see fit, but the latter won't come close to the
former.]

~~~
puranjay
That's a very narrow viewpoint. Several species and ecosystems are certainly
going through eco-pocalypses even right now. Lots of very poor people have
also gone through their own versions of eco-pocalypses

------
tome
> Noam Chomsky said humans are living through the darkest and most
> consequential time in history.

> Chomsky said the current age is a “point of confluence of severe crises,”
> including the threat of nuclear war, climate change, a raging pandemic,
> economic depression and racial unrest in the United States.

The period between 1914 and 1945 would probably beg to differ.

I've found it interesting to read "left" and "right"[1] pundits on Twitter
recently. Each "side"[2] believes that this is the last chance to save
democracy and all hell will be unleashed if their candidate loses. Ten years
ago we had the "Tea Party", on average a deranged bunch of lunatics without
the ability to see or think clearly. In response one could validly and
amusingly proclaim "facts have a notoriously liberal bias". Fox News was
extremely partisan and contributed to a sort of radicalisation of the right.
In 2020 the same lunacy seems to have taken over the Democratic party as a
_whole_. Facts are out of the window on both sides. Fox News _and_ CNN and a
whole host of other media outlets are contributing to radicalisation of both
sides.

In 2016 the media convinced me that Trump would turn into Hitler 2.0. I'm glad
and embarrassed to realise that what he has turned into is an average
Republican president except he understands the working class and he hasn't
started any wars.

This is "the darkest and most consequential time in history" for people who
want to push an agenda (right-wing commentators will claim the same, not just
left-wing ones) and for media outlets who want to increase their ratings. We
are facing deep, deep problems that need overcoming, but only people whose
worldview was based on the assumption that the growth and stability of '92-'08
would last forever are going to be swayed by claims of this being the worst
_ever_.

In order to be able to tackle the challenges on our plate society needs to be
able to think clearly. What we need at the moment are _calming_ forces, not
the inducement of more panic.

[1] for want of better descriptions

[2] if you can really call them "sides"

~~~
s5300
Everything else aside; where do you get the slightest clue from Trump and his
life history that he "understands the working class"

Like, that's such a low ball man. Do _you_ understand the working class?

~~~
tome
I think he understands that a large swath of working class Americans
(particularly, but not only, white men) have had the wind knocked out of their
sails by the social changes of the last approximately thirty years, and the
economic changes due to offshoring their jobs to the developing world over the
same period.

> Do you understand the working class?

I'm not sure, man. Like, do _you_?

~~~
waheoo
The fact that you're already getting downvoted for a completely unsided
viewpoint is pretty much proof in the pudding for what time pool calls trump
derangement syndrome.

People have actually lost the plot, I think trump is a horrible person but the
way people react to anyone even remotely suggesting a viewpoint inline with
his and you're a scumbag racist that needs to be cancelled.

~~~
tome
Ah yes, good point! I also forgot to mention that the Tea Party had "Obama
Derangement Syndrome". It was obvious that they took everything Obama said or
did in the worst possible light. Sometimes they even made things up! Now
almost the _entire_ Democratic party and left wing in the US (and indeed
around the world) has Trump Derangement Syndrome. He can't say anything
without it being misinterpreted and broadcast all around the world within five
minutes.

