
Seafood Without the Sea: Will Lab-Grown Fish Hook Consumers? - 1PlayerOne
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2019/05/05/720041152/seafood-without-the-sea-will-lab-grown-fish-hook-consumers
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pvaldes
Is enough dificult yet by traditional methods.

There is a limit to the tick of a meat piece if oxigen and food must rely in
simple difussion. Fishes need omega3 fatty acids to survive. They are unable
to synthesize it. How do you effectively feed with omega-3 the cells of an
animal without stomach? I wonder also how cell excrection would be solved
without a few tubes and filters to collect it. Would you eat fish fillets
growing soaked in "fish urine"?

The list of challenges to solve is really long.

The more interesting goal here is changing the perception of public about what
is food. There are lots of problems with fish breeding. Bad husbandry
practices will produce easily a lot percentage of deformed fishes in the pool
(lacking one or two eyes, lack of opercles is also common and skeletal
sclerosis can produce "Z" plied fishes easily also). Those are unmarketable
today. If you just say that it was cultivated in a laboratory then abismal
quality products could suddently enter in a market chain and turn into
acceptable or even top quality. Even better than the real thing.

But a good comforting lie is still a lie.

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greendestiny_re
I have a sinking feeling this kind of synthetic food production is just a bait
for health-wary consumers. After reeling in enough customers, lab-grown fish
produced for profit will inevitably have to deteriorate in quality to
maintain/increase revenue. Can this kind of endeavor scale? Can it be
introduced to schools, for example? I'm sure some consumers will swallow the
idea hook, line and sinker but I see it as just another cool concept in an
ocean filled with bottom-feeders.

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wpietri
I don't think it's inevitable that quality has to deteriorate. I buy all sorts
of manufactured products that are perfectly good; competition in balanced,
well-run markets keeps producers in line.

And personally, I'm willing to pay extra for lab-grown. I'm sure they'll sell
that as a health benefit; it's much easier to avoid contaminants. But for me
it's about minimized negative externalities. I don't have to worry that I'm
driving a species extinct, or contributing to some more localized eco-
catastrophe.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
You may pay extra, plenty might want the same for less - particularly if it
becomes fashionable. We don't really have balanced, well run markets, so
competition also produces cheap, profitable eco-catastrophes, either to sell a
similar product for less - see US experience of beef farming. Or to turn a
once wild-caught luxury food into a mass market everyday food - see almost all
salmon farming. No problem - the eco-catastrophe is now someone else's problem
- an externality.

I see no reason to have confidence this will be any different in terms of eco-
damage or other pollution without strengthening regulation in several areas.
Just being in a "lab" \- which will be regular food factory once
commercialised - won't remove waste, or stuff down the drains.

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nyolfen
many global fishing stocks are being critically overexploited, and lab grown
fish could help abate it. this is a much more immediate threat to food
security than climate change and may be intensified in the future by ocean
acidification. i don’t see why a fish lab couldn’t be run in a carbon neutral
manner and it’s much better than doing nothing.

[https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/07/fish-stocks-are-
used-...](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/07/fish-stocks-are-used-up-
fisheries-subsidies-must-stop/)

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siruncledrew
> BlueNalu is not looking to replace wild-caught or farm-raised seafood, but
> is aiming to become a third alternative for seafood eaters.

Since they are targeting “fish that cannot be easily farmed”, the whiff I get
from this idea is akin to synthetic diamonds. This lab grown fish is an
alternative to the rare and high-end fish that is harder (and more expensive)
to get.

This is not a cheap replacement for standard consumers buying filets at the
grocery store for weeknight dinners, but a niche offer for chefs and clientele
wanting the experience of eating particular fish cuisine.

It would be disingenuous to say this is going to save the oceans. Fish are
useful to the environment and it would be better if their populations rose, as
overfishing is causing massive oceanic destruction.

Comparing this kind of lab grown fish to lab grown beef is actually an inverse
comparison because a central point of lab grown beef is addressing the issue
(and environmental impact) of humans farming too many cows for beef, whereas
with fish we have the opposite problem where humans have decimated the
populations so much we actually need to lift fish populations.

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neltnerb
I don't think I follow. If I had the choice of eating a wild bluefin tuna
versus lab grown bluefish tuna meat, I'd eat the lab grown meat every time
because... overfishing of bluefin tuna is a serious problem.

There is never a silver bullet, but if we can improve stocks of any wild fish
via displacement, it's working to save the oceans.

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jacknews
Indoor fish farming seems like a much more practical approach to solve the
problems inherent in catching wild fish to eat (and the pollution that outdoor
fish farms cause), and a much more logical next step for seafood than lab-
grown muscle tissue.

Lab-meat makes most sense for beef, which is an incredibly inefficient and
habitat-destroying food source, and is also often served in a processed form
anyway, ie as minced-beef in burgers, bolognese, sausages, etc, etc.

~~~
RhodesianHunter
Many fish (Tuna being a prime example) can't be farmed. There's also a notable
decrease in health and nutritional content of farmed fish.

~~~
pvaldes
Tuna is not easy to breed, not at all, but can be farmed. I had seen tuna
babies born in captivity. The tiny critters are all mouth. Is a long term
effort.

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open-source-ux
The Marine Conservation Society (MSC) has an excellent Good Fish Guide if you
want to find out which fish are overfished:

 _" Use the Good Fish Guide to find out which fish are the most sustainable
(Green rated), and which are the least sustainable (Red rated)."_

[https://www.mcsuk.org/goodfishguide/search](https://www.mcsuk.org/goodfishguide/search)

In the UK, supermarkets display the MSC logo on frozen fish products to
indicate the fish is sustainably sourced. They did a recent Good Fish Fingers
guide for 2018 (UK only):

[https://www.mcsuk.org/responsible-seafood/fish-finger-
guide](https://www.mcsuk.org/responsible-seafood/fish-finger-guide)

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intopieces
What is never brought up in the lab grown meat discussion is the potential to
mitigate human suffering. Working a fishing boat is hard. Working a poultry
plant is hard and psychologically stressful. Lab grown meat could eliminate
that for thousands of people.

~~~
BurningFrog
I'm _not_ impressed with academics who think all physical labor is torture.

NOT EVERYONE IS LIKE YOU OR WANT TO BE LIKE YOU!

Sorry for the shouting...

~~~
intopieces
[https://www.ilo.org/global/about-the-
ilo/newsroom/features/W...](https://www.ilo.org/global/about-the-
ilo/newsroom/features/WCMS_075579/lang--en/index.htm)

“The ILO is keenly aware that people in the fishing sector often face harsh or
difficult working conditions: they may spend long periods at sea and are
frequently exposed to unpredictable and dangerous conditions. In a number of
countries, the fatality rates for persons in the fishing sector are many times
greater than the national average, for example higher than those for fire-
fighters or police. These rates may exceed 150 to 180 per 100,000 workers,
rivalled only by such other hazardous occupations as forestry and coal
mining.”

~~~
thrower123
Much like cutting trees for a living, fishing - even of the net hauling and
trap wrassling variety - can be very fulfilling and fun for a certain kind of
person.

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aviditas
I am seriously excited for this to become available to chefs. There is a
rampant issue in sushi with fish fraud and this would be a clean and ethical
solution.

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pvaldes
Why do you think that this would be more ethical than allowing fishes live in
the sea?

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cryptonector
Yes, I would eat lab-grown meat (fish or otherwise).

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ipsum2
I'm skeptical. This article makes huge claims about what they've done, but
looking at BlueNalu's website, there are no pictures of the lab or actual fish
that they've made. This seems like a submarine article
([http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html))
no pun intended.

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labgrown
Looks like another firm trying to pull an "impossible" \- hype up something as
lab grown meat, sell veggieburgers.

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intopieces
Impossible is plant based, not lab grown.

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ci5er
That was the point of the comment.

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intopieces
But Impossible does not and has not ever claimed to be lab grown meat.

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ci5er
Fair enough. I was responding to your response to GP (which claimed it did so
claim before the bait&switch). I have no dog in this hunt - just tracking
grammar and claims. Probably makes me a Nazi.

