
The IPS LCD Revolution - FredericJ
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/07/the-ips-lcd-revolution.html
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jrockway
These articles have made me want to buy a new monitor at home, but the 7 year-
old 24" Dell monitor that I have still works perfectly fine. It's more than
bright enough and there are no defective pixels. The $800 or whatever it cost
back then seems like a lot, but what other 7-year-old computer part does
anyone still use today? (My mouse and HHKB are getting there...)

~~~
weaksauce
I upgraded to a 30" IPS(from a 24" IPS) and it's well worth it. It does take a
little getting used to having that much screen that close but the adjustment
period is on the order of a day or two.

~~~
jrockway
I have a 30" at work. I don't really need the space. It isn't enough space to
have four 100 column files open, and 24" is enough for three.

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codinghorror
Multiple panels may be better for the way you work than one large panel. In
general I don't think any programmer should have less than two monitors, ever.
Ideally three (for the "center"), and if you're crazy, four.

~~~
obtu
I'm used to multiple desktops (gnome 3, gnome before that), and multiple
panels turn out to be useless to me. I just can't spread my attention across
two monitors, whereas I switch desktops without thinking about it.

~~~
codinghorror
Task switching, replacing one set of content with another (literally) isn't
generally free: [http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/09/the-multi-
tasking-m...](http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/09/the-multi-tasking-
myth.html)

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robomartin
IPS has been around for a long, long time. Pricing might be a reflection of
many things. Bad or questionable panels are one potential example. Another
might be an EOL panel or monitor (End Of Life). Translation: They are not made
or supported any more. It can also be an old model.

I spent some time in the LCD OEM business. The simplest way I can put it is
that the major LCD module providers defecate all over LCD monitor
manufacturers. Their defecate takes the form or panels that sometimes are good
and other times are bad. Sometimes the bad is obvious (remember the purple
aluminum Apple Cinema Displays?). Sometimes it isn't (reliability issues,
pixel issues, etc.

The panel makers also pull stuff like discontinuing panels seemingly overnight
and changing specifications on you without notice. We saw a case where the
manufacturer changed the logic power supply specification for a panel from 12V
to 5V and didn't bother to tell anyone. They shipped us new panels. Monitors
started to blow-up during testing. I mean, smoke coming out of them. It wasn't
until we burned-up the equivalent of a small BMW (or two) of OEM LCD panels
that we came to the realization that the manufacturer had caused this issue.
All we got was a new data-sheet out of them.

It's a rough business to be in. Ugly as can be. The sheer size of the
providers and sole-source nature of the products create a situation where, for
the most part, these companies are above the law (don't ask me how I know
this) and can fuck with you --the monitor manufacturer-- to no end. The only
companies that don't get screwed with as much are the large players like the
HP, Dell and Apple's of the industry.

IPS panels of very high resolution have been around for quite some time.
Probably the most famous of these was the IBM-originated quad-HD 3840 x 2160
22 inch panel. Memory fails but I'll say that this panel goes back at least
fifteen years. OEM cost started out around $20K and dropped to about $6K with
time.

My concern with these 27 inch monitors would be about the unknowns. They could
be just fine. But they could also not be OK in a million ways. Did they, for
example, not make it to US and European shores because they did not pass
safety tests? I don't know. No amount of money will compel me to, quite
literally, play with fire. Do they have system-level premature failure modes
such as questionable power supplies or the like? Don't know. Or how about
panel-level issues, such as high failure rates or deterioration with time,
temperature, etc.

Buy them if you must, but be very aware of what you are not buying. I, as an
example, would not leave these things plugged in and unattended. I'd plug them
all into a power strip and switch them off every time I leave the room for
more than thirty minutes. While I am not saying that a fire is the unavoidable
consequence of paying so little for them I am proposing that, sometimes, when
thing are too good to be true there's a reason for that.

~~~
codinghorror
Don't you think the many forum posts, now many months old (they start in Feb),
from people with these monitors would point out any raging extreme risks like
them commonly bursting into fire?

You realize, too, that these are EXACTLY the same LCD panels used in Dell and
Apple monitors, from the same factories, right?

[http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/content/dgm_ips-2701wph....](http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/content/dgm_ips-2701wph.htm)

Do a Google search for the LM270WQ1 label you see on the panel in those
pictures, and notice how often the words "Apple" and "Dell" appear.

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stephengillie
This is reminding me of a college student job as a PC tech:

 _We had about 20 labs, 3 of them had 1-year old Dell Precision workstations
with 22" Dell LCD monitors. During the summer, we noticed the monitors
developing a weird wavy waterline-ish streak along the top 2" of the LCD. The
LCD still displayed fine, but everything above this waterline was noticeably
darker. The wavy waterline was different on each monitor - on some it only
extended down a centimeter across one corner.

Eventually half of the monitors in these 3 labs developed this strange mark.
We RMA'd in batches; eventually we learned the glue holding the LCD layers
together was failing. The older (and newer) Dell LCDs didn't have that issue._

That's the kind of thing I'd worry about here, especially since there's likely
no recourse. Will these LCDs have strange issues, like a watermark caused by
the failure of cheap glue?

~~~
maratd
I think it's pretty obvious that if there was no risk involved, the market
would drive up the prices on these panels to where Apple/Dell/HP charge.

There is obviously risk. You're ordering from the other side of the world,
little customer support, the manual is in Korean, the description itself
states that the panels are inferior to the type you'd get from the big boys
... not to mention anything of the electronics, and the units come with a
funny plug to top it off.

And that's just the stuff you know off the bat.

For the majority of people, this alone, is unacceptable.

Then again, I'm the sort that's perfectly fine opening up the LCD and
replacing a blown cap with a soldering iron. Been there, done that.

Making this a fantastic opportunity =)

~~~
deelowe
Actually, Microcenter carries one model, so you can buy domestic if you'd
like.

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Paul_S
You could buy an IPS LCD for a bit above 200 quid for years now. Someone has
been not paying attention.

edit: turns out it was I who was not paying attention, not realising that's it
not about affordable IPSs in general but this specific size.

~~~
epaik
This is news to me. Sure, you could probably by A IPS LCD for 200 quid two
years ago, but a 27" one?

~~~
Paul_S
I don't know, I'm not in the economic class that can afford things like that
so I wouldn't even consider such a size. With the added distance requirement I
don't think I could even fit one on my desk. Is 27" the comfort sweetspot
then?

~~~
pja
Depends what you want to do! If you have the eyesight for it, you can fit a
lot of code on a 2560x1440 panel & because it's IPS you don't get a colour
shift from looking at oblique angles.

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sp332
This article doesn't mention, that these panels don't have the decryption
hardware for DHCP. That means you won't be able to watch blu-rays on this
monitor.

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nitrogen
Unless, of course, you live in a country without a DMCA-type law, and you rip
your legally owned discs to a media server.

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sp332
If you play them from a media server, it's not really a blu-ray anymore :)

Oh actually I just remembered that AnyDVD HD transparently decrypts Blu-rays.
<http://www.slysoft.com/en/anydvdhd.html>

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epaik
I've ordered one, but I'm more than a little concerned about the potential 30%
failure rate that I read about in the previous thread.

I'm a little bit curious though, as to WHY exactly these screen's failure
rates are so high, or how they fail. If there's any way to prolong my LCD's
life I'd like to be made aware.

~~~
pja
Perhaps that's why they're £200?

Also, they don't work with some video cards (I know my Radeon 5750 has
occasional trouble syncing with my HP LP2475W for some reason, but that's
single-link DVI only. I imagine these monitors are dual-link DVI displays?)

~~~
epaik
Of course they're cheap for a reason. I was just a little bit interested in
the technical details of what causes a display like this to fail.

And yes, these monitors are dual-link dvi only.

~~~
pja
Just to be clear: the 5750 is supposed to be dual-link capable, but the ebay
sellers for these monitors all seem to state that they don't work with the
5750 (nor a bunch of other ATI & NVidia graphics cards of similar vintage).

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DanBlake
I wish monitor arms could come down in price with them. Its crazy that some of
the arms cost as much as the monitor themselves.

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delackner
The link below says that LG is about to introduce their own very very cheap
HDMI compatible ips 27 inch, the IPS277L-BN for just 30,000 yen. OK in USD
that's like $385, but you get HDMI and a real company behind it. Also that
price is for Japan so who knows what the US price would be.

(in Japanese): <http://watchmonoblog.blog71.fc2.com/blog-entry-2304.html>

[edit: m3koval rightly points out that this monitor is low resolution so only
really fit for gaming or video viewing. My mistake. ]

~~~
m3koval
That description states a resolution of 1920x1200 instead of the 2560x1440 on
these panels. I think 1920x1200 looks pretty awful on a 24" monitor, so I'm
sure it will look even worse on one that is 3" larger.

It's a shame these monitors don't have an HDMI input. Then again, I can't
complain given the price.

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mrpollo
I've read before that my macbook pro 15" with regular display port wont
support the 27" displays, can anyone confirm this is true? even with the Mini
DisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI Adapter
(<http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB571Z/A?>)

~~~
mwill
I'm using one of those with a 13" mid2010 mbp to power a 30" display at
2560x1600. It works, just make sure you use a dvi-d cable as well, most of the
complaints I noticed about it not working when I was researching it seemed to
be because the person hadn't actually got a dvi-d cable to go with the
adaptor.

~~~
mrpollo
thanks. I'm running on a 15" late 2009, hoping it works too, I'll look into
the cable as well, Thanks!

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nachteilig
Even though I kind of wish people would not spread the gospel on this issue,
since I'd like the prices to stay low, I can report that I bought 2 of these
some weeks ago and really, really love the result.

~~~
nazgulnarsil
economies of scale vastly outweigh short term demand fluctuations in
determining technology prices.

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dbecker
I keep hearing programmers tell me how much better IPS is than TN, but then
they emphasize colors and viewing angles. Are these monitors better for
programming and text editing?

~~~
jdboyd
I had one TN display that got unpleasantly dim along the edges when viewed a
bit off angle. I could never find a position for that monitor where I could go
from sitting straight to slouching without some one of those positions
resulting in dim edges.

But, aside from that one bad example, if the text is crisp and there a plenty
of pixels, then it is probably good enough for programming and text editing.

Many programmers also do web design, photograph, games, or other tasks that
benefit from a better display though.

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devindotcom
Man, does it have to be a revolution?

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kecebongsoft
I own a 27" Samsung SyncMaster P2770, it's a TN panel, didn't know about any
of these things when I bought it, whish I could be patient and research more.
I'm not so much for viewing angle, so I'm just wondering how different the
color reproduction quality is compared to any average IPS panel. If you just
browsing around and doing stuff in terminal, is it worth to get one?

~~~
sliverstorm
For anyone who is not a graphic design type, color reproduction is primarily
an enjoyment thing.

Like high quality headphones. It is in no way whatsoever required, but some
feel it enhances their enjoyment.

That said, if a terminal constitutes most of your usage, there is honestly
little point in getting an IPS display. It just doesn't matter whether or not
the blacks are really perfect black, when you're reading text on a white
background.

~~~
nitrogen
I have two 28" TN monitors, and I find them much more comfortable with light
gray text on deep gray backgrounds than with dark text on a white background.

~~~
sliverstorm
I personally prefer light grey on almost-black backgrounds, black-on-white is
just the most common.

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kevhsu
Correction to the article: The majority of the displays only have DVI, but a
few have DP, HDMI, and VGA.

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pbreit
Am I reading correctly that you shouldn't expect to hook one of these things
up to a MacBook?

~~~
sachingulaya
No, I did it just fine. Check my comment history.

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Dox
Very interesting, which model is the non glossy version

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bytephilia
Can I use three of those for one 2011 MBP?

