

Ask HN:Do my company own IP when I work on my personal app in freetime? - mbh

I work in a software company 9-5. On weeknights and weekends I work on an iPhone app. The app has nothing to do with what my hiring company does. If I release the app in the app store, does my hiring company own any part of the IP?&#60;p&#62;Do I need to declare that I am building something on the side to my hiring company?&#60;p&#62;Should I think of release my app after I quit my hiring company if the above is true?
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patio11
It depends on the law in your jurisdiction and, potentially, on promises you
may have made in your employment agreement. Many jurisdictions will allow
employers to enforce an IP agreement which you made as a condition of your
employment, and employers in both these and under jurisdictions at least
theoretically state claims to such IP in a lot of employment agreements or in
appendixes to them. (e.g. buried in the Company Handbook which is incorporated
by reference, which may or may not be enforceable in your jurisdiction.)

In general, I would tell employers about that sort of thing and ask for a
quick two-line email that they have no objection to $NAME_PROJECT_HERE.

P.S. The right time to do this was _before_ starting work on the app, since
your options are very limited if they say "Cool, we own that now, any
questions?"

~~~
Mankhool
Absolutely agree. I used to work in Vegas. An engineer colleague of mine
specifically took a job there because (at that time?) Nevada was the only
state, or one of very few, where an employer could not lay claim to his side
projects - and he had at least one patent that I know of.

~~~
rmc
If you are in a place where the employer can lay claim to your side work, then
that means you need them to agree to not do so in your contract. There is a
demand for software engineers now, so they should sign it.

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dctoedt
In 2010 I posted a flow chart, with footnotes, to explain when an employer
owns an employee invention and when it merely has shop rights -- see
[http://www.techlawnotes.com/diagramming-a-legal-issue-who-
ow...](http://www.techlawnotes.com/diagramming-a-legal-issue-who-owns-an-
employees-invention/)

For copyrighted works: In the U.S., anything done "within the scope of
employment" (which can be a fact-intensive question) is considered to be a
"work made for hire," with the _employer_ as the "author" and thus as the
owner.

------
mark-r
There are a few states that have laws covering this situation, otherwise it
probably depends on the agreements you signed when you were hired.

stackoverflow.com/questions/401269/states-having-nonassignable-invention-
exceptions-similar-to-california-code-sect

I don't know what the default is in cases where there's no explicit agreement,
but this outcome seems possible.

www.dilbert.com/2009-01-22/

Forgive me that the links aren't clickable, I'm having trouble submitting this
comment and I suspect it's a bozo filter that I'm tripping.

------
muchonada
It all depends on the employee contract you signed. At the company I work for
the contract states that everything we make and do not disclose is company
owned. This is because our work hours are so flexible that it can be hard to
say what is "outside office hours".

But as long as I disclose my side projects they are mine and the company fully
supports us in our side projects.

My advice: Read your employee contract and then talk to HR - make sure
everything is legit before you make your move. That way there will be no
surprises.

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anonhacker
IANAL but the issue simplified -> You own IP if:

(Developed while not employed) || (Developed in
(California||Delaware||Illinois||Minnesota||North Carolina||Washington) &&
Developed on your own time using your own hardware) || (Your employment
agreement/contract specifically assigns you IP rights)

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dkersten
Read the contract you signed when you started working there - this is the kind
of thing that _should_ be covered!

If you don't have a contract, then you have bigger problems anyway.

~~~
CyberFonic
If you don't have a contract or your contract doesn't specifically mention IP
you should not tell your employer about what you are doing. But approach your
HR and explain the situation that you are thinking of developing an app which
is unrelated to the company's lines of business and that you will be doing
this entirely for your own education and in your own time using your own
computer etc. Put in those terms they should not have a problem with it. Make
sure you get it in writing to avoid future misunderstandings / contradictions.
Then after a suitable delay, you could release your app.

As other people have pointed out, you could release your app under a different
company - but then you have a similar situation of technically working for two
employers. Again, that shouldn't be a problem unless there is a potential for
conflict of interest.

------
AndrewDucker
Did you sign a contract saying that your employers have rights to work you do
outside office hours?

If yes, then yes. If no, then no.

------
AznHisoka
Why not release the app anonymously under a company name, or someone else?

------
gdhillon
You should be fine, as long you are not using their property (hardware,
software, phone etc) to work on your project. Also it should not be in
competition with your company. Just to be on the safe side, you might want to
tell your HR and see if they have any objections.

