
Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream - kochikame
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-20/why-some-techies-are-shunning-silicon-valley-for-japanese-dream
======
ericdykstra
I love living and working in Japan, but I wouldn't recommend moving here
unless you're committed to becoming fluent in Japanese and integrating into
the culture. This is probably mostly true for any country one could move, but
Japanese is one, if not the hardest language to learn for native English
speakers.

I do, however, recommend everyone visit! Japan is a beautiful country with a
unique culture and has something for everyone. You'll be safe, and have all
the amenities you would expect from a first world country.

~~~
RobertRoberts
I really think any techie would appreciate the consitency of two of the three
alphabets in Japanese. (Hiragana and Katakana) The very fact that both of
these alphabets are the exact same phonetic pronunciations, but written
slightly different to visually distinguish them, is the only complication. But
that they are designed specifically to distinguish between Japanese and
foreign words is just brilliant.

Their Kanji script/written alphabet is a travesty left over from cave
paintings and Chinese. But the spoken language is easy, easy to learn. The
variations with polite (public or hierarchical relationships) vs common
speaking, seem to mainly affect verb conjugations.

But their sentence structures are reversed from ours, but many languages seem
to be, but they have fewer words, and make a number of a assumptions about
context that make speaking actually less complicated, but require more
understanding.

Also, they don't have any exceptions in pronunciation like English, which is
huge. The extra effort saved on this alone can balance out the other
complications.

This is my limited experience with a few years training in the language,
family members learning it and a few relatives that lived there for years.
(one permanently now)

Feel free to correct any errors I've thrown out.

My point is that Japanese can be easier to learn than other languages, but for
reasons that may not be obvious.

~~~
throwaway936396
Sorry, but I really strongly disagree with this. I've studied Japanese for 6
years, Chinese for 3 and am currently in Japan.

Some of your comments come off as extremely ignorant. For example, neither the
kana syllabries nor the logographic kanji system are alphabets.

The distinction between Hiragana and Katakana is more of a distinction between
emphasis on sound (Katakana) and normal writing of words. Katakana is used for
more than foreign words.

Kanji / hanzi is absolutely not a travesty. In fact, Japanese would be nearly
unusable without it (in my opinion). But your calling it "left over from cave
paintings" seems to imply that you're simply not familiar with it, so I'll do
my best to explain:

A very small percentage of kanji / hanzi are pictographic (in the range of
1-3%) with a similar percentage being ideographic. Thus nearly all kanji /
hanzi have written forms that have nothing to do with what they mean.

There are around 200 radicals which make up kanji. They're compounds of these
simple pieces, much like letters make up a word. For example, it doesn't make
sense to ask why there's a "t" in water and it doesn't make sense to ask why a
radical is part of a character (in general, there are exceptions to this in
both English and Japanese).

I wouldn't describe Japanese sentence structure as strictly reversed. For
simple sentences it often is, but in general sentences are just structured in
an entirely different way.

Japanese "exceptions in pronunciation" are in fact the hardest part of the
langauge in my opinion. Pronunciation of kanji in Japanese can be a bit messy,
especially compared to Chinese. In fact the island of Iwojima was famously
misread by Japanese admirals. The island's name's proper pronunciation would
be something like iwotou.

Despite the pronunciation issue with kanji in Japanese (especially in edge
cases), the written form is useful and beautiful enough to justify the cost.

Japanese is a truly beautiful language and I recommend anyone with the
patience to commit thousands of hours to it, to absolutely go for it -- you'll
be rewarded.

I'm very sorry if this comes off as insulting by the way. It's 12:40am here
and I got triggered by this comment and felt a strong compulsion to add my
thoughts and opinions.

~~~
ericdykstra
I was waiting for a response like this so I wouldn’t have to type it myself.
Almost everything that looks simple about Japanese at the beginning is complex
and deep underneath.

For example, one of the things I was told early on is that pronunciation is
easy, since all the sounds already exist in English. First, that’s not even
true. Second, if it’s so easy, why have I never met a foreigner with an accent
that even I, as a non-native speaker myself, could mistake for native?

~~~
nayuki
Agreed with everything you said. Japanese pronunciation is easy to hit in the
right ballpark because Japanese uses a near-subset of sounds found in English
and other common languages. But refining your Japanese pronunciation takes
effort and is not something to shrug off. Anyway, here are some examples where
I think English-speaking Japanese learners butcher their pronunciation:

* し is [ɕi] (tongue fronter), not [ʃi] (tongue rearer).

* ふ is [ɸɯ] (mouth more open), not [fɯ] (teeth touching lips).

* お is [o] (monophthong), not [ou] (diphthong).

* え is [ɛ], not [eɪ]. (e.g. さけ)

* つ is [tsɯ], not [sɯ]. (e.g. つなみ)

* Anything with the Japanese r. The alveolar flap does exist in American English, though it's not consciously recognized as a distinct sound. Japanese sounds funny but still intelligible when the native [ɾ] is replaced with [ɹ] (English R) or [ʁ] (French R).

* Anything with small y (e.g. kya, nyo, myu) should have a quick [ʲ] sound, not a long [i] sound. e.g. きょうと is [kʲoːto], not [kiouto].

* Vowels are never reduced; きもの is [kimono], not [kəmounou].

* But the appropriate times to suppress vowels entirely. e.g. です, ～ます, して.

* The concept of doubled consonants, not grasping it.

* The concept of long vowels, not grasping it.

* Stress is often on the first syllable, not the second.

* Intonation is flatter than in English.

* How to use high/low/rising/falling tones correctly on particles.

* A natural and even pacing of syllables, not the choppy speech that foreigners seem to exhibit.

~~~
RobertRoberts
And as an American, none of these were an issue. None.

They understand me just fine, and the details don't matter as long as they can
understand you.

It seems like you saying that having an accent in a foreign language equates
to not being able to speak it properly.

Edit: Getting down votes for saying this, so I will clarify.

If you reversed your arguments, claiming that the Japanese can't pronounce
English sounds, you would come across as borderline racist.

So I feel like arguing about the minutiae of sound detracts from whether or
not the language as a whole is harder/easier to understand.

------
xaranke
Are there really a lot of these people?

Don't get me wrong, Japan is truly a wonderful place to visit but living there
seems like playing life on "hard mode" as compared to other countries: new
language and culture, never truly becoming "one of them", and relatively poor
working conditions.

Unless you have existing ties to the place, it seems hard to believe that
people will move in droves; although I can understand a few people moving.

~~~
Raphmedia
> Unless you have existing ties to the place, it seems hard to believe that
> people will move in droves; although I can understand a few people moving.

The opposite is also true. You can grow so bored of western culture that Japan
become interesting with its different way of life. It is however quite a bit
"western" in some ways (compared to China, some of the middle east, etc.) so
moving there can sound like a challenge without being scary.

~~~
xaranke
This is a Eurocentrist view, but you're not wrong.

~~~
Raphmedia
Canadian but yes, I agree with you. If I were from somewhere else my point of
view would be different.

------
mnm1
The Japanese (and Korean) work culture, or at least the external perception
thereof is the biggest factor that turns me and others off. Who wants to work
most of their life and put in twelve or more hours a day six days a week or
more? It's worse than America which is already quite bad and off-putting. I
don't know what it is about hard work that people have fetishised, but it's
not all that it's cut out to be and frankly, if one doesn't have to work that
hard, working that hard is stupid. Not to mention unhealthy. Doing it for low
pay borders on insanity or disease. Workaholism is no different than
alcoholism at its core. Both are extremely destructive. Well at least with the
former, there will hopefully be money to pay one's medical and early funeral
bills.

~~~
lifthrasiir
You are generally right, but in the tech sector the work culture is highly
variable---I'm saying this as a native Korean having worked for Korean tech
companies for a decade, and I have heard similar accounts for Japan. South
Korea also enjoys a universal healthcare for everyone; there are mandatory
healthcare plans for long-term foreigners as well AFAIK. They do generally
have lower tolerance on diversity issues (even while the workplace can be much
better, the society is not), so that's something to keep in mind.

~~~
TulliusCicero
Healthcare is a big issue in America for the poor and working class, for white
collar professionals it generally isn't nearly as much.

------
knbknb
Recently, there was a long autobiographic thread on twitter about a young US
woman who could not make it into an adequante job in the gaming industry,
simply because she is a woman. For women, it seems to be very hard to find a
job generally, with few exceptions. For example, plenty of Nanny jobs seem to
be available in Japan.

------
anjc
Any non-Japanese person who wants to work there should think long and hard,
and give it a trial first. Poor pay, strong work culture, stifling weather and
crazy weather events for much of the year...it's no paradise. You'll
frequently see things happen which are downright illegal in the Western world.
For example, being explicitly denied service because you're not Japanese. You
might not see these things as a tourist but live there and you'll see it.

It's sad that some introverted/vulnerable people seem to gravitate towards
Japanese culture. If the Japanese themselves have a tough time in their own
society then why do outsiders expect to fare any better.

~~~
glandium
> For example, being explicitly denied service because you're not Japanese.
> You might not see these things as a tourist but live there and you'll see
> it.

There are very few such places. I haven't seen any myself, and I don't know
first-hand anyone who has seen any themselves either. The rare cases I heard
about were all a shortcut made to essentially mean "can't serve people that
don't speak Japanese". As in, they did actually serve foreigners that speak
Japanese. Which is somehow understandable, although the form might not be
appropriate.

Speaking of form, it is worth noting that when combined with poor English, the
signs can be huge fails in meaning. For example "Japanese only" can mean
"Japanese people only" or "Japanese language only". I'm sure there are many
ways people with good intentions can end up with badly worded signs. And
obviously, a foreigner seeing a badly worded sign is unlikely to tell them the
sign is badly worded, keeping the status quo in place.

I've actually heard of instances of foreigners telling about signs, with the
signs being replaced as a result.

~~~
CaptainZapp
It happened to me twice (as a tourist, overall being seven weeks in Japan).

My strong feeling was that the proprietor of those places were afraid that
they won't be able to communicate appropriately and that they may lose face if
they can't make me happy. I never felt discrimanted against, really.

On the other hand I had fantastic experiences walking into places, where
nobody spoke an English word, throwing a hearty _Omakase!_ (essentially: you
decide) at the chef. Smiling and an occasional _Oishii!_ (delicious) delivered
with a smile also go a long way.

You have to be aware that they're really scared to lose face and that you
could leave unhappy. A very big no!no! in Japanese culture.

I had fantastic experiences, let alone extremely tasty meals with this
approach.

edit : spello

~~~
noobermin
I once said "oishii!" in a coffee shop and the guy looked at me like I was
trying too hard.

------
ArtWomb
Sugoi! I'd be interested in hearing the price breakdown for living in Tokyo at
current exchange rates ($USDJPY = 110.00)?

For a moderate two bedroom in a cool neighborhood? As well as office space.
And how is the availability of gigabit residential fiber options. Say,
comparable to Verizon FIOS (~$150/mo)?

In short, if anyone has set up a remote office for 2-3 months or even
permanently I'd love to hear their experiences ;)

~~~
Aeolun
* 2 bedroom in cool neighborhood: $2100/month

* office space (3 people) somewhere central, shared facilities, private office: $2000/month

* residential gigabit (min 1 year contract): $60/month

* food for one month, either eating out or buying decent groceries and cooking: $800/month

\---

Those are off the top of my head. I'm not very interested in living in a cool
neighborhood and rent where I live is more like $1400 (office space is
presumably correspondingly lower).

~~~
vorpalhex
How do restaurant prices compare to grocery prices typically? Do folks tend to
go out as often as they do in the US?

~~~
0xCMP
Just came back from a trip and most restaurant prices match the US in cities.
Cheaper places go for around $6-7/meal. Most end up being around $20/meal
(+/\- 5).

Obviously cooking at home or snacking ($1-3/snack) from convince stores lowers
that amount.

Most prices include tax and there is never a tip.

------
cosmic_ape
I hoped to see there an elaboration of what a "Japanese Dream" is, but there
isn't much about that in the article.

------
emchamp1
This sounds oddly familiar to me, I worked in Japan for a year and a half
despite taking a large paycut from my job back in the US because I wanted to
explore something new. I ultimately left to Silicon Valley ironically because
they were offering nearly 4x the pay and better learning opportunities (the
Japanese compensation structure is not kind to new grads and SV has ridiculous
COL). However I loved my time in Japan and my ultimate career goal is to
somehow move back there but with a better opportunity. Good to see some people
finding gainful employment over there, it really is a great place to live.

------
latchkey
I know this is about Japan, but I did something similar. I went from San
Francisco to Saigon about 2 years ago. Significantly lower cost of living,
motorbike culture, great food and craft beer, super friendly people, easy
travel to other SE Asia countries. I don't regret it one bit.

~~~
toomanybeersies
I guess we all have our own preferences.

I visited Saigon (and the rest of Vietnam) a couple of years ago with an eye
to maybe moving there and working remotely.

It didn't take me too long to decide that I wasn't going to move. The main
reason was just the lack of creature comforts. No offence intended to Vietnam,
but everything there was just a bit shitty and in a state of disrepair. I just
felt like everything was put together with a minimum of effort, and then no
effort was made to maintain it. Whether it was motorbikes, or roads, or
buildings.

The other things that you might think were obvious downsides weren't actually
problems for me at all. I didn't mind the traffic, or the pollution, or the
noise. Riding motorbikes everywhere was actually fine as well. The heat was
pretty bad, but I'd get used to it.

I think at the end of the day the main reason that I didn't move was that my
reason for wanting to move was the lower cost of living, so I could save
money. I don't think that saving money is really a good reason to move
countries. Instead, I moved to another country with similar cost of living but
higher wages.

That's why I find these articles interesting. What works for one person really
might not work for others. I've seen stories posted/linked to on HN about
people who moved to Japan and hated it.

~~~
latchkey
Good on you to at least explore your options, that is 90% of the battle!

Agreed, Saigon (and VN in general) is not for everyone, but that is changing
over time as more western influence starts to happen here. Case in point,
Landmark 81 is now open. I'm not sure that is good or bad... It also is a city
that you live in, not visit.

Those 'creature comforts' are not easy to find as a tourist, but they exist.
Having friends and dating locals helps a lot. My google maps is unreadable now
cause I've marked every single place I've been to and I know that I'm missing
out on tons of things cause I don't know the language.

It took me about a year to get used to the heat, but you do (I actually find
that I get cold more easily now).

------
jimmywanger
If you're ethnically Asian but don't speak Japanese, Japan will not be
welcoming at all.

If you don't look ethnically Asian, Japanese people will give you allowances
and defer to you. However, if you're Asian and not Japanese, they look down on
you. Read about ethnic Koreans in Japan and how they're oppressed[0]. They
speak fluent Japanese and their families have lived 3 generations in Japan.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreans_in_Japan#Integration_i...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreans_in_Japan#Integration_into_Japanese_society)

~~~
mikekchar
My student who was of Korean decent but was the most popular person in high
school and went to a good university would disagree with you. As would my
friend who was born in Korea, married a Japanese woman and moved to Japan.
There is discrimination in Japan, but it's frustrating to see this trotted out
time and time again as if you'll be systemically discriminated against no
matter where you are. It's just not true.

But if you don't speak Japanese, it doesn't matter if you are Asian looking or
not, you won't fit in here. There are lots of other ways you won't fit in here
too. Not speaking Japanese well is an absolute deal breaker, though.

Edit: I should point out that there is nothing wrong with the Wikipedia page.
As far as I understand what it states is absolutely correct. It's simply that
Japan does not have dual citizenship _at all_. So if you want Japanese
citizenship you can have it -- you just have to give up your other
citizenship. Japan also does _not give citizenship automatically_ if you are
born here. You have to have at least 1 parent who is a citizen. However, you
can apply for citizenship and you will get it -- as long as you give up any
other citizenship. Otherwise you will essentially have permanent resident
status. The latter point is admittedly crazy and it is very unfortunate that
many Koreans are born into this situation, but they can fix it by
naturalising. They don't want to. BTW, the student of a friend of mine was
American and had exactly the same issue. It's not an issue of racism.

~~~
jimmywanger
The plural of anecdote is not data. And Korean people have been oppressed in
the past, and no attempt to rectify the situation has been made by the
government. That's why a lot of Korean people born in Japan gravitate towards
less savoury activities.

Plus, Japanese took Chinese and Korean women and forced them to become whores
or "comfort women" for the Japanese soldiers stationed in the mainland. As
recently as 2014 the Prime Minister of Japan said there was no evidence that
the Japanese government took "slaves".

And the second point, which you don't touch upon, is if you look even vaguely
Japanese at all, you are expected to follow all the social norms. If you
don't, they give you a pass.

~~~
dbjh
I already mentioned that Koreans in Japan have obtained a special status that
is AFAIK better than any other nationality as a direct result of WW2. As an
example of an attempt to rectify things what about this long list of official
apologies that are somehow forgotten in this kind of "discussion"?
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statemen...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan)
And you are again being disingenuous with what you care to mention. From the
list above: January 1, 1992: Prime Minister Kiichi Miyazawa, in a press
conference, said: "Concerning the comfort women, I apologize from the bottom
of my heart and feel remorse for those people who suffered indescribable
hardships". Are you perhaps trying to raise the bar? In 10 other official
apologies the suffering of the comfort women is acknowledged. You will also
see that the Japanese government didn't only spend words on this issue, but
also allocated funds.

~~~
mrpopo
From the very article you are citing :

March 1, 2007: Prime Minister Shinzō Abe stated in a newspaper article that
there was no evidence that the Japanese government had kept sex slaves, even
though the Japanese government had already admitted the use of brothels in
1993.

~~~
dbjh
Your quote doesn't invalidate anything I wrote. My response proved
jimmywanger's claim "no attempt to rectify the situation has been made by the
government" to be false. Also note how he moved the goalposts. In his original
post he talks about how Koreans _are_ oppressed, while in the second post he
changed it to _have been oppressed in the past_. I have no interest in
discussing the definition of "slave". I do find it irritating he brought up
WW2 within 2 hours after the article was posted, just because it was about
Japan. I get the impression he just wanted to use the opportunity to bad-mouth
Japan.

~~~
jimmywanger
> I do find it irritating he brought up WW2 within 2 hours after the article
> was posted, just because it was about Japan. I get the impression he just
> wanted to use the opportunity to bad-mouth Japan.

Trying to read somebody's motives (who you have never met) is mostly
incorrect. Japanese people in Japan are incredibly racist towards other Asian
people. And the Japanese government is backpedaling and still visits a shrine
with convicted war criminals celebrated as casualties.

~~~
glandium
> and still visits a shrine with convicted war criminals celebrated as
> casualties.

Not trying to be apologetic, but I recently learned that the Yasukuni shrine
is _also_ the "home" of Sakamoto Ryōma and others involved in the Tokugawa
shogunate overthrow and the following Meiji restoration, so it's not /that/
simple.

------
timwaagh
It sounds like an interesting idea. Certainly Japan is an interesting place.
In general I envy those who get to move abroad to work. The adventure appeals
to me. These days I might be good enough for it too. It wasn't always that
way,but certainly I'm currently one of the more capable engineers on my team.
But the ties that bind are too strong still. I will stay here. To those who
get to do this, I wish them a good ride.

------
dawhizkid
They found one engineer who wanted to live in Japan and call it a story? You
could do this for literally any topic about anything and call it a trend
apparently

~~~
mikekchar
Is this an appropriate place in HN to say "Me too"? :-) Moved here 10 years
ago. Don't regret it for a second.

But seriously, in the past 10 years I've noticed a _lot_ of high tech people
either moving here or wanting to move here. When I first came, it was really
rare to bump into a foreigner who was a programmer. They were either English
teachers or factory workers. Now I run into people relatively frequently (even
out here in Shizuoka prefecture).

~~~
propman
Can I ask you a few questions, if you don’t mind. Are you fluent in Japanese?
Have there been any major instances of discrimination at work? I know you’ve
been there 10 years, but is this a place you’d be happy for the rest of your
life to start a family and potentially retire?

Please ignore if any of these are too uncomfortable or invasive.

~~~
mikekchar
I don't mind answering what I can. Of course the answers are limited by my
actual life :-)

Fluent in Japanese: There is a difference between fluency and proficiency. I
am very _fluent_ in Japanese. If I want to say something, I open my mouth and
the words come out. If someone is talking to me, I understand what they are
saying -- unless I don't, in which case I ask them to explain and then I do.
I'm not very _proficient_ in Japanese in that the average 10 year old speaks
better than me, understands more, etc, etc. I can read relatively well --
street signs, menus, comic books, novels aimed at junior high school students,
and I can struggle through a newspaper if I have to. But (and I'm incredibly
ashamed to admit this), I can't write a lick. I used to be able to, but I
haven't actually done it in so long that I can barely write my own name.
Crazy, isn't it?

Discrimination at work: I currently own my own consulting company and do
contracts for foreign companies. I'm currently on a very long term contract
with a UK company. When I first came to Japan, I intended only to come for 1
year to learn Japanese (ha ha! one year... so naive). I taught English at a
high school. I fell in love with Japan and this area and decided to stay. I
taught English for 5 years and it was fantastic (highly recommend it to anyone
who has the opportunity).

So the only opportunity I've had for discrimination at work was at the school.
Keep in mind that I was on a year to year contract and I was an "Assistant
Language Teacher", which means that I was on the bottom rung with no career
advancement possible. Nothing to do with where I came from, just you need
actual teaching credentials to advance ;-). Also in a public high school
(where I was teaching), you need to get your teaching license which is
ridiculously hard (basically, you need to know everything that is taught in
high school for every subject, and you need to have a university level
understanding in your specialised subject). I could easily pass the English
tests (even the grammar!) and the interviews, but there is no way I could pass
the general test (remember, I can't even write my own name!). So there's a
filter there and in the history of Shizuoka prefecture there have only been 2
foreigners who have passed the high school teaching license -- both Chinese (I
checked). It's actually a dream of mine to pass the license even though I'm
too old now to realistically teach in a high school by the time I could pass.

Having said all that, I worked with some magnificent people and I worked with
some horrible people. Now, normally I'm not that judgemental about people, but
the school I worked in is very near the bottom of the school system (schools
are ranked) and so the worst teachers are sent there to be reformed. This
means that you get some real stinkers, but that the principal and vice
principal are usually quite good because they have to deal with these horrible
teachers. Next step in your career past that school if you are on the way down
is to get fired (and that's _incredibly_ hard to do in the school system).

So like I said, I worked with some people who I have to say rank as some of
the worst examples of humanity that I have ever met in my life. They were
petty, vindictive, mean... Let me just give you an example. One person I
worked with hated one of the students. I don't know why. He was a nice guy,
but she just hated him for some reason. She tried to get him kicked off of the
baseball team. For no reason. Just because she hated him. He complained to the
principal and the principal asked everybody in the department (including me)
what the deal was. We all said that she's just crazy and so the guy was
allowed to stay on the baseball team (and the teacher was lectured -- you have
no idea how long... maybe 8-10 hours!) So this poor guy was having a hard time
at home and one day his mother threw him off the second floor balcony of their
apartment. Luckily he didn't die, but he broke his arm. The school intervened
and offered to set up a foster home for him, or if he wanted they would find
an apartment for him and set him up with a job with a local company (quitting
school). He chose the latter since school wasn't going well for him either.
That teacher started crowing the next day how she was right about him and what
scum he was since he gave up on school. Complete nutcase.

Anyway long story short... in 5 years of working _even with people like that_
, I was never involved in any discrimination at work. On he contrary, people
often complimented me on picking up "the Japanese way" and doing things
appropriately. Which is not to say that I've never experienced discrimination
in Japan -- I have, but never at work (YMMV, of course). The worst
discrimination I've received in Japan were from expats who complained that I
enjoyed Japan too much, spoke too much Japanese and hung out with too many
Japanese people. "They'll never accept you, you know. You should just be
yourself." On the contrary, those people never accepted me and I _was_ being
myself. My Japanese friends were perfectly happy for me to be whoever I wanted
to be. I had one incident where the husband of a friend of mine refused to
speak to me ever. I could never figure out why until my friend said, "I'm
sorry. He doesn't like Europeans". Which floored me, but... I know lots of
people in Canada and the UK who don't like "brown people", so it was an
interesting experience to be on the other side.

Is this a place where I would be happy to be for the rest of my life, to start
a family and retire: Yes. Absolutely no question. This is my home. I'm a bit
old to be having kids (I'm 50), but I got married here. My wife is Japanese
and we met while I was teaching here. My wife's family is amazing and I've had
absolutely no problems at all. My mother in law refers to me as her son and
often introduces me that way. Sometimes people do a double take, but nobody
has ever said anything (they are Japanese after all!).

When I go travelling with my wife, foreigners are supposed to give their
passport or foreigner registration card to the hotel so that they can make a
photocopy of it. But given that my wife and I speak Japanese together and I'm
perfectly at home here, I think most people assume I'm a naturalised citizen.
I have an accent when I speak (which people kindly say is not that bad), so
it's obvious I'm not from here originally.

Somewhat strangely, I'm not even a permanent resident yet. After I got
married, my wife wanted to see what it's like to live in a foreign country, so
we went off to the UK for 2 years. That reset my counter. I'm not actually
sure when I can apply, but I think I can probably do it soon. Due to British
ancestry I can work in the UK, but if I get Japanese citizenship, I'll have to
give that up. My wife's mother is getting older (in her 80's) and while it's
hard to think about, after she passes away we might go back to the UK for a
while. However, when we are done travelling, I will definitely apply for
citizenship. In fact, I'm always worried that something will happen, or the
rules will change or something like that and it's very tempting to do it now.
But yes, this is home for me and hopefully this is where I'll retire.

Hope that rambling account was interesting for you. I've lived in 4 countries
in my life: Canada, the US, the UK and Japan. All have advantages and
disadvantages. All have challenges. I fit in here better than I fit in
anywhere else. Not everybody is like that. Some people (many, many people to
be perfectly frank) do not like living here at all. You have to become
Japanese if you want to be treated as a Japanese person. If you are not
willing to do that, then it can be very difficult to live here long term.
However, if you only want to live here for a year or two, then it's no problem
at all (and in fact, can be considerably easier).

~~~
bitcurious
Would you raise a daughter in Japan?

I've heard from a Japanese-American girl that moved back to Japan around age 9
that living growing up there as a woman was terrible, especially having been
exposed to the relatively egalitarian American society.

~~~
mikekchar
The culture is totally different. Gender roles in Japan are much more defined.
Especially growing up in the US and moving to Japan, I think it would be hard
-- regardless of gender. For example, young men _have_ to get their career
going in their early 20s and often are stressed out to the max. Young women,
on the other hand have a lot more options. Like I said, it's just different.

To answer your question, I'd have no problem raising children of any gender
here. I also really like the school system, which I found a lot better than
what I grew up with in Canada. Again, very different -- you need to know where
you are going by the time you are applying to high school, but then the kids
are raised to understand that.

I don't really know what to tell you. Usually people from one culture have
aspects of it that they think are really good. Other people from other
cultures may actually have a completely different point of view of it. In some
ways women in the US (and Canada) are in a situation where it's actually
difficult to take on the same role that their mothers or grandmothers did.
I've had American colleagues lecture Japanese students about how they
absolutely should not waste their lives with the goal of being a stay at home
care taker. When I asked those same colleagues if they would say the same
thing to a boy who wanted to be a stay at home care giver, they said "Of
course not" \-- apparently not aware of the double standard.

This is the kind of culture clash that I see, especially between American
people and Japanese people. Both sides see their point of view as being
absolutely correct. For Japanese women, feminism is generally considered to be
a dirty word. It's not that they don't want fair treatment, but they find the
way that it is pushed as being completely alien to their culture -- to the
point of being morally wrong.

Long story short, a Japanese girl does not have the same values as an American
girl. Neither does a Japanese boy have the same values as an American boy. And
while both sides will defend their moral choices, they are dramatically
different. If you raise your children in Japan to be Japanese they will
generally be happy -- I rarely see unhappy children where I live (male or
female). The same goes in America. Mix and match? That's where you can get
into a lot of trouble.

I hope that answers your question. It's a super difficult one to answer
because there are a lot of unspoken assumptions. In many ways Japanese culture
is literally morally wrong when taken in the context of American view points.
The opposite is also true, as hard as it is for both sides to recognise. I'm
in the middle where I can see and understand both, but it's hard to respond to
questions (from either side) without evoking hatred. The one thing that
American culture and Japanese culture has in common is that they are both
intensely moral cultures. There is a right and a wrong and very little middle
ground. The problem is that what's right and what's wrong is often very
different.

------
Fej
Japan is not anime.

~~~
nayuki
It kind of is, especially in a relative sense. I was in Japan for a few weeks
this year. Some of the unique anime things that I found in Japan that I don't
see in North America:

* Anime girls (specifically Azur Lane) plastered all over Yamanote Line trains

* Shops playing music from animes I've watched and other recognizable Jpop music

* Anime-themed cafes (Gundam, Card Captor Sakura, etc.)

* Stores for secondhand anime goods

* Rentable display cases to sell your anime goods

* Anime mascots printed on public banners

* Gaming arcades with anime goods

* Conversely, the way that cities, train stations, and other scenes are depicted in anime is fairly accurate to how Japan looks like in real life

This is not to say that Japan is 100% anime, because that is obviously false.
All I'm saying is that if you want to see a place that upholds the anime
lifestyle more than anywhere else in the world, then Japan is the only answer.

------
0xCMP
People are mentioning pricing for living there. I just visited, so not the
same, but noticed some things.

1\. Many things try to round out to a flat amount (¥100 instead ¥253). Some
places don't.

2\. Cash is king. Many places refuse to accept credit or contactless payments
if you carry cash. Some places only accept Cash. You can see this when you
look up places on Google Maps.

3\. Coins are used for denominations of 1 cent up to $5. $10 is the first bill
you get so be prepared to carry lots of coins. Also, I still don't understand
the reason for it, but they usually refuse to pay things using two methods
(e.g. to get rid of the 35(!!) ¥1 coins I had).

4\. Tax is usually included or a second price, higher price is shown with the
tax included. As in #1 you may see on receipts with tax included. E.g. ¥2000
first shown as total with a smaller number of ¥1740 as sub total and then the
final amount with tax included (same as total).

5\. There was never a tip where I went and I believe it's not done pretty much
anywhere.

6\. Many things in major cities are being adjusted for the olympics so things
are actually fairly nice for foreigners to get around.

7\. Besides going between major areas most train cards can be used in most
other places. Assuming you land in Tokyo (e.g. HND) you can get a Suica card
for the subway and put ¥2000 on it. It takes face ¥500 as a deposit on the
card. I used the same card in Tokyo, Kyoto, and Osaka.

sn: That card can be moved to your phone in to Apple Pay if you switch to
Japan region in your iOS settings (language and etc doesn't need to change).
Apple doesn't require FaceID for it so you can swipe to enter subway super
easily with just your phone. Once you do this you get the ¥500 deposit on the
card back to use without returning the card.

8\. Neat trick for changing prices is put a decimal after first two numbers
since your in ¥100 == $0.90 != $1.00, but it's close enough.

9\. Restaurants often have english menus, especially in cities, but it's much
better experience to be able to read normal menus. At least I'm assuming given
I know basically no Japanese.

10\. Food and restaurants are comparable to the US. Cheaper meals are $6-7
where nicer sit down restaurants are around $16-25.

11\. As far as cheap food: FamilyMart bread is a must try. Also the various
Rice+Seaweed+Protein meals are cool.

------
Grue3
I'm thinking of moving to Japan myself. Really enjoyed visiting it as a
tourist. I learned the language for my side-project and planning to take a
language proficiency test this December. Anybody need a Python programmer who
worked at Yandex?

------
paulsutter
To anyone who is thinking about going: you should really go.

~~~
Camillo
If someone were working in Silicon Valley as a permanent resident (not US
citizen), and wanted to try working in Japan (say, for a year), could they do
that without jeopardizing their ability to go back to the US?

~~~
zinckiwi
No.

Technically a year is the limit IIRC but I have heard of issues with even six
months away. It's at the discretion of the immigration official as to what
constitutes abandonment of your permanent residence.

------
sevensor
Pedantry, I know, but I don't think caché means what the author thinks it
means. Pretty sure _cachet_ was intended.

------
lanevorockz
The crazy political correctness is turning anyone working on Silicon Valley
into a paranoid person. You are expected to behave and think in a certain way,
being an individual is not acceptable.

~~~
leogiertz
And you think moving to Japan will alleviate that?

~~~
chosenbreed
> And you think moving to Japan will alleviate that? :-)

