

Australia 'spied on Indonesia President Yudhoyono' - peterkelly
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24952229

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dodyg
I am Indonesian. Look, we know other governments are spying on our President.
This comes with the job - however, tapping the personal phone of the First
Lady is pretty much beyond the pale. She's not an elected official. This is
done in a bad taste.

~~~
cs02rm0
It's difficult, to my mind. If you consider it acceptable to tap his phone for
a purpose he'd rather not communicate to the Australians and there's a clear
line that says her phone must not be tapped but his is ok, guess which phone
he's going to use for that purpose?

~~~
dodyg
Well that's just fine. He's a President, not the most wanted terrorist in the
world. Are they tapping the phones of his children/relatives as well?

~~~
bilbo0s
Probably.

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tinco
If it would be rather awkward if instead of more peace and transparency, the
Snowden files would lead to more open animosity and even war.

Of course blame should never fall on Snowden, but I think it is a given that
close countries spy on each other. Nations act on self interest, it is very
important to know what other nations are doing around you, or you could be
caught unawares, like Europe was when the Blitzkrieg started.

~~~
glhaynes
_Of course blame should never fall on Snowden_

Why not? I'm not wanting to make the case that it should necessarily, but the
idea that some blame shouldn't fall on him if international catastrophe comes
from his actions doesn't seem obviously justified. If his actions seem to lead
to peace and transparency, I'd expect history to give him some of the credit.

~~~
tinco
I guess that's just my ethical system. He alone is not capable of initiating
national conflicts, he simply does not have the power.

He has (had) the power to influence the decisions of those with power, but in
any circumstance, as long as those in power have control over their own
emotions/actions, they should be solely responsible for the actions they take.

Example where some people might disagree with me: If the Hamas launches
rockets on an Israeli settlement, killing hundreds, and in return Netanyahu
orders a retaliation, killing one Palestinian civilian. Then I believe
Netanyahu is responsible for that death, and Hamas is not. Because Netanyahu
made the conscious decision to attack.

~~~
czr80
Responsibility is not zero-sum - it's perfectly possible for multiple people
to share different degrees of responsibility for an outcome.

~~~
tinco
Sure, the solder who pulled the trigger, the commanding officer who gave the
order, the general who made the mission on direction of the prime minister all
share in the responsibility as well.

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pinaceae
aka "intelligence agency of random country does its job"

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jamhan
As I understood it, Snowden saw excessive (and illegal?) spying by the NSA on
American citizens. He then spent time collecting information on these
activities which he intended to leak. I find it interesting that somehow
slides disclosing Australia's spying on Indonesia met his document collection
criteria. The timing of the release of this particular part of his document
collection is also highly suspect, as our newly elected government was working
hard and well with Indonesian authorities to shutdown the people smugglers.

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threeseed
I really don't understand why HN tolerates these political articles.

Newsflash: Countries have always and will always spy on each other. It's human
nature.

~~~
saurabh
Countries are not humans.

~~~
knome
Countries are human fancy. The nature of the fancier is somewhat pertinent.

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gadders
In other news, "Dog Bites Man".

~~~
growupkids
In other other news, HN does not erupt into self righteous indignation that a
country spies on another country.

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jrs99
So politicians are all a bunch of teenagers in adult bodies. Who would have
thought?

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bananacurve
No calls to boycott Australian products, hmmm.

~~~
pan69
Ugg boots?

~~~
Nick_C
Ha. Not for a while now, though. Deckers has 95% world market share. I can
remember the trademark battle a decade or so ago.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugg_boots](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugg_boots)

