
Ex-NSA and CIA Chief Hayden Sides with Apple - vermontdevil
https://theweek.com/speedreads/606641/exnsa-cia-chief-michael-hayden-sides-apple-fbi-iphone-encryption-fight
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jtome
Clickbait title. Nowhere in the video does he say anything about apple, or
even disk encryption.

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oksawe
He does mention end to end encryption, which is a feature of Messages, and is
part of the overall argument.

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ChuckMcM
Hayden's argument is that end to end encryption is the right decision for the
bigger set of users (the "main body") which are you and me, he also says they
got around the lack of back doors with bulk surveillance.

The implied argument (and one that would work well in this specific case) is
that if the phone company where the terrorists got phone service kept bulk
metadata records then the FBI could get their "contact lists" by asking the
phone company, while nobody could steal their personal health information of
banking secrets from their phone.

It is a pretty reasonable argument when you think about it.

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beedogs
Which is what makes me wonder why the hell they're trying to force Apple to
write software to break into the phone. They already know the guy's contacts.

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adventured
They're leaning on an ideal case example to try to set precedent. Nothing
would work better than one of the extremely rare terrorist cases. They don't
have many such cases to leverage, so they're trying to abuse the American
public's fear of terrorism with what they have. It's equivalent to the 'think
of the children' approach in politics. If you want to try to do something
wildly unconstitutional, play to terrorism fears. If Apple refuses to
cooperate, then they try to make it look like Apple is making the American
public less safe and bolstering terrorists.

All of the terrorism laws they've passed for example, have ended up being used
for everything else. It has happened that way by design, they desperately want
more power and reach. The FBI is attempting to do in their own area what the
NSA did with mass-surveillance. They saw how successful the NSA was and how
little push-back there ended up being to the vast privacy invasion.

If they're given a foot in the door on this specific example, they'll use it
for almost everything else imaginable.

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Terr_
> It's equivalent to the 'think of the children' approach in politics.

When waterboarding was in the news, one near-wishful scenario was "If it was
the only way to find the nuclear bomb before it exploded in a major city."

Of course, extreme and utterly-unprecedented situations are exactly what we
already have presidential-pardons for, and it was really just bullshit to try
to defend humdrum day-to-day abuse of prisoners/kidnap-ees.

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adventured
The emergencies-at-all-times doctrine of political manipulation.

Equivalent to designing your entire life and all choices around the notion
that your house is going to be on fire and burning down every day.

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awqrre
Apple has admin privileges on your device so it is trivial for them to record
encryption keys... They probably encrypt the PIN/key on the local drive for
easy decryption later without owner's consent (they are probably forced to do
it by some secret government order and can't acknowledge it)...

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pyre
If you have something useful to contribute to this conversation, then it would
behoove you to put your cards on the table rather than just tossing around
generic claims. For example, are you claiming that the secure enclave in
A7-based devices is nothing but a sham? If so, what is this based on?

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awqrre
Even if you assume that the enclave is truly secure, you still have to believe
that Apple or the manufacturer doesn't log the encryption keys stored inside
it when it is being manufactured, no?

