

US Immigration: When Only 'Geniuses' Need Apply - dreamz
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/may2009/db20090517_864505.htm?campaign_id=rss_daily

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Kadin
I don't even think the Minutemen types (and I know a few) really oppose this
sort of immigration. This is exactly the sort of thing we should be
encouraging; highly skilled individuals should be encouraged to come to the
U.S. and work.

It's the flood of low-skilled workers that essentially drop the bottom out of
the labor market that present a problem.

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eru
> It's the flood of low-skilled workers that essentially drop the bottom out
> of the labor market that present a problem.

Do they? Any statistics to support that point?

Edit: Added the line I was questioning.

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falsestprophet
I don't think there have been any comprehensive studies about _Minuteman-
types_ on this subject, but I can offer some anecdotal evidence from my
Minuteman chapter in Clint, Texas (near El Paso).

We are a little divided. JerryD and Greg do not like it at all. Dan, Zach and
I don't have a problem with it. Jared, our leader, has adopted an intermediate
position; he supports such immigration, as long as they're not Mexicans.

I'll bring up the question at the next county-wide meeting in August. I'll
tweet the results.

~~~
biohacker42
I'm guessing you're being downvoted because you're memember of the Minutemen.
But I am genuinely curious about his:

 _he supports such immigration, as long as they're not Mexicans._

So even geniuses are not welcome if they happen to be Mexican?

~~~
eru
By the way: What are Minutemen?

~~~
biohacker42
Civilians who "guard" the US/Mexico border.

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eru
Against those evil Mexicans, I guess? Do the Mexicans also have guards on
their site?

~~~
greyboy
Is there really a problem with people streaming across the border in that
direction? Could be, for all I know.

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jgrahamc
That's the route I took to get my green card. Not sure I'd say I was a genius
though.

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xiaoma
If they truly are _at the top of their fields_ , why require a degree? Would
it really make any sense to deny a modern day Edison or Hemingway over a
degree?

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gojomo
I'd make these available to anyone above average.

As long as a person is not a criminal or an immediate drain on common
resources, more competent people mean more opportunities, more production,
more efficiency. And if they're not here, they'll be expanding possibilities
elsewhere, eroding the US's relative position. So admitting anyone who brings
up our averages is the truly patriotic policy.

~~~
yummyfajitas
From the perspective of maximizing the economy within the current borders of
the US, you are correct.

However, this completely neglects the potential cultural and political
aspects. Immigration, particularly in large amounts, will dramatically change
the cultural and political face of the US. We need to account for these
changes before making decisions on immigration.

~~~
gojomo
Not if we're only accepting 'above-average' immigrants. If we have cultural or
political aspects that can't survive the arrival of more highly-educated,
self-sufficient, productive, law-abiding residents, we should eagerly discard
such parochialisms.

~~~
yummyfajitas
Just because a person is smart and productive doesn't mean they aren't racist,
sexist, authoritarian or superstitious. A large number of such people could be
harmful.

A highly educated, self-sufficient and productive person said this: "I'm
gradually beginning to feel that we Chinese need to be controlled. If we're
not being controlled, we'll just do what we want."

If we import 50 million such people, the "parochialism" we discard may well be
democracy and freedom.

(source:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Chan#Comments_during_200...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Chan#Comments_during_2009_Boao_Forum_for_Asia)
). This is one example that springs to mind, and is (I hope) fairly non-
controversial.

~~~
gojomo
_racist, sexist, authoritarian, superstitious_

Don't forget: they might be xenophobic too! Or do we need more xenophobia to
protect "democracy and freedom"?

I would welcome Jackie Chan if he sought US citizenship, regardless of any
peculiar political comments. Peculiar political beliefs are allowed; it's an
explicit feature of the American system.

Any number of "Jackie Chans", when mixed in with all other top-performing
immigrants with diverse beliefs, total up to zero chance of making make our
society coarser or less free. Highly-productive people who leave their country
of birth because they prefer the USA are not, as a general class, small-minded
enemies of democracy and freedom.

And even where they have some preferences we natives might find peculiar,
within one generation, those peculiarities will either prove their enduring
value or be discarded by the children raised here.

As it has been for hundreds of years, so it shall be.

And thanks to American cultural/business exports, telecommunications, the rise
of worldwide English, and rising world living standards, each wave of
immigrants is already _more like us_ , upon arrival, than previous waves were.

~~~
yummyfajitas
I'm not claiming all foreigners display these traits. I'm merely claiming that
"above average" is not incompatible with them. Nice snip job, however.

The fact is, some smart and productive foreigners display values which are
incompatible with ours. I've met a few. Maybe their numbers are few enough so
that it doesn't matter. But such a claim requires evidence beyond vague
handwaving.

Note: I'm not arguing against immigration. I'm only arguing for evaluating
immigration on all possible dimensions (including cultural and political), not
simply economics.

