
Ask HN: What tools/apps/etc. are out there in support of antiracism? - beermann
This has been touched on in the last few days:<p>https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23394972: Ask HN: How can a programmer help with current events?
https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23388597: Ask HN: Technologies to help prevent abuse of power?<p>I am re-asking because there isn&#x27;t a lot of information. I&#x27;m aware of the ACLU&#x27;s Mobile Justice app (https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.aclu.org&#x2F;issues&#x2F;criminal-law-reform&#x2F;reforming-police&#x2F;aclu-apps-record-police-conduct). What else is out there?<p>I&#x27;m specifically interested in whether or not tools exist to help hold police accountable. I&#x27;m interested in developing something similar to the Mobile Justice app. Similar to the idea of sousveillance, I think there is an opportunity to catalog instances of injustice in order to hold individuals accountable. I am imagining an app that has a real-time, location-aware feed of media references to such instances to corroborate and publicize, potentially supported by facial recognition of offenders to gather evidence of repeat abuse.
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twright
> I think there is an opportunity to catalog instances of injustice in order
> to hold individuals accountable

Maybe. But after enough years of catching police on camera strangling and
killing black people it has quickly become clear that accountability is not
the issue. It's that the system in which they operate (brought to you by your
tax dollars) protects officers who abuse their power to a superlative degree.
Don't forget the police unions are there if the officer is fired, furthermore,
they can just start up at the police force in the next town over if it really
comes to that (which it _rarely_ has).

I feel like HN has a hard time groking this but there is no app to fix
institutional racism and inequality. The tools for this are called law and
community organization. Just today, protests and organizing across the country
have elevated the charges against the officer who murdered George Floyd as
well as his three accomplices. Can you pitch an app or tech tool that can do
that?

Only with community organization and changing the law can you create a new
reality where people are held accountable. Voting is a good place to start.
I'm not saying technology can't help, but it is not the pure means to the end.

~~~
beermann
Well said. But I could also argue that, were it not for a video of George
Floyd being killed, we would not be seeing the community organization we are
today. I won't disagree that the community organization is what is driving
change though.

------
DataDaoDe
> I'm specifically interested in whether or not tools exist to help hold
> police accountable.

I'm interested in this too. And haven't been able to find much of anything.

> I am imagining an app that has a real-time, location-aware feed of media
> references to such instances to corroborate and publicize, potentially
> supported by facial recognition of offenders to gather evidence of repeat
> abuse.

I think the implementation and specific measures need careful consideration.
Remember justice according to Rawls is a form of fairness among all members in
society. What about the injustice going on that the police are tasked with
stopping on a daily basis and their respective part in ensuring a just
society? What about injustices against the police themselves? If we ignore
such data points and issues, society will develop a false impression and
injustice will supplant the justice we are striving for. IMHO any social
justice software should be "context aware" in as broad a sense as possible
(history of officers actions - good, bad, everything in between) and probably
a history of the "offenders/recorders" public actions (again good, bad,
everything in between) as well as specific encounters. Of course, this brings
problems such as rights of privacy, among others.

A software which only captures specific encounters, and only makes them public
when they are negative is something that on the whole might not be a net
benefit for society. I'm unsure and I think it needs some consideration at the
least.

~~~
beermann
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I have discussed the fact that there are
repeat offenders on both sides. Nobody has the right to incite mob violence,
for example. That could be captured by the same application.

I'm still early in my thinking around this, but welcome the discussion. From
my early research and discussions, there is a solution that is needed, but
there is a lot of definition that has to happen around what exactly that is in
order to take into account issues like the ones you describe.

------
splintercell
The thing about racism is that it is used to infer information about
individuals.

Cops in America use race as a proxy. They are far less likely do something to
an old grandma because they know she doesn't represent the same threat as a
young male in his 20s.

There are two approaches to deal with it, but only one is highlighted:

\- Either make them not use race for any information

\- Or help them identify the problematic individuals better

The first approach is what is actively being pursued by most people today, but
it hardly solves the problem and it's fighting a rising tide. The more cops
are weirded out by judging a black kid out of fear of racism, the more panicky
they would feel while dealing with him because they'd be waiting for other
pieces of information. For instance, Philando Castile was immediately shot
when the cop discovered that he was armed. In a different world, he would have
tried to analyse whether this man with his partner and kid in the car was
scared of getting arrested or not.

By running a major antiracism campaign cops are now left to use any piece of
information other than race to determine the threat level, and this turns out
to badly because their internal compass of threat assessment is distorted.

For the second approach, pro-racial training can be made regarding threat
assessments. Better databases can be built regarding information on
individuals (obviously a problem for most people, but this is a great way to
deal with this issue). China style facial recognition technology and going
full on surveillance state can clearly help with this issue. In other words
either do Israel style profiling or do China style surveillance, but both
these things will have major resistance from Americans (but surprisingly
arming cops with military weapons is ok).

