

How A Facebook Game Makes Zynga Millions - Hunchr
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-get-completely-addicted-to-a-stupid-facebook-game-2009-12

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biznerd
Could this facebook game thing be a fad?

I remember back in high school when web games like Earth 2025
(games.swirve.com/earth/) were quite the rage and everybody was playing them.
This lasted for a year or so until the novelty wore off. Some still play but
the casual players are gone and the audience is a tiny fraction of what it
once was.

I've noticed that my FB friends that play FB games tend to stop playing after
a couple months. The games are mindless, cookie-cutter and repetitive for the
most part.

<EDIT>I don't think WoW is a good comparison as there is clearly a huge depth
between it and Zynga games. The experience is entirely different.

"Easy come, easy go" could apply to this market. I mean these games come out
of no where to millions of players. These are not hardcore gamers that develop
strong loyalty and build communities, but "casual" players that probably
started playing because their friends are.

"Casual" gamers are notoriously fickle. Look at the Nintendo Wii, which is the
most popular console but has the least average amount of titles bought per
owner (which is where the real money is.)

In 2-3 years I would not be surprised that after all this over-exposure these
x-ville games will be significantly less popular. These "games" have more in
common with Tamagotchi and Beanie Babies than Wow or Call of Duty... </edit>

~~~
ibsulon
Some of us played for years, long after the fad wore off. The difference
between the swirve games and facebook is that a community grew up around the
game. From what I've seen of the facebook games, it's mostly your existing
friends. I haven't heard of Mafia Wars meetups like E2025 or Utopia had, for
example. (And yes, there were ways to get extra turns via various offers. I
remember having to research something on goto.com every day, as one.)

What swirve did well is create a community. That's what an online game should
aspire to, and I have only seem glimpses of that with the facebook games, even
with the obnoxious updates.

~~~
teej
There were Facebook clones of Swirve games that had similarly rich communities
around them, but those games don't make as much money as the X Wars or the X
Ville games.

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sili
They have a great idea on making money of users. Instead of charging a larger
amount to let them play the game, they charge a numerous smaller amounts for
different objects in the game. First, people are more willing to part with,
let's say, 25 cents for that one cool fish than with 25 dollars for a game.
Second, once you get them pulled into the experience, they will be even more
willing to spend money. Surprisingly, I don't see that kind of pricing used
much in other areas.

~~~
mattmcknight
It seems like it worked well in the arcades. Back when I couldn't afford a
Playstation or a TV, I could rent some time on Tekken, and even got to play it
with my girlfriend and meet other people at the arcade.

I haven't ever bought anything on Facebook, but it would really improve the
profitability of these games if there was a super easy payments system there
to avoid the huge hurdle of the first time someone has to get the credit card
out of their wallet. Once they have the numbered stored, incremental purchases
are lubricated, as in the case of iTunes, where it is very easy to make a
casual $0.99 purchase.

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mattmaroon
The minute you refer to the game as "stupid" you lose the ability to
understand why it works.

~~~
bumblebird
I don't really see why. We can pretty much all agree that the lottery is also
'stupid', but it works, and it's quite clearly understood why it works.

These sort of games work because they get people addicted, and then blackmail
them into paying money to make the games easier for them.

~~~
heyitsnick
The only way they could be blackmailing you is if they said something like,
"if you don't spend money, we will tell everyone on facebook how much you suck
at maintaining virtual fish!"

I don't think this is exactly the case. They sell a service. Whether you deem
it a service of value or not is irrelevant.

~~~
bumblebird
The fact someone sells a service doesn't mean it's right, proper, etc.

Gambling is heavily regulated for a reason. I would say that games like these
should be regulated just as much.

Imagine going to the arcades, playing street fighter II, and it saying "We
know you can't get on the score board because you suck, but if you pay $20
we'll put you at the top of the score board anyway". Would that be completely
fine and above board?

~~~
mattmaroon
Like many drugs, gambling is heavily regulated because of puritanical values,
not because regulation helps reduce the social impact. These games are not
gambling at all, and share no more in common with gambling than any other form
of capitalism.

And yes, it would be totally fine. If you don't like it you don't have to play
Street Fighter II. And given that it costs 50 cents a play and has a steep
learning curve, that's effectively what they do in a roundabout way.

~~~
bumblebird
They share a lot. They are addictive, and the further in you get sucked, the
harder it is to stop. Because of this, the further in you get, the easier it
is to be exploited and taken advantage of.

I don't think it's about being puritan, it's about protecting the most
vulnerable members of society from themselves.

For example, say you get 95% of the way through a game, then the game asks for
$100 to get past an absolutely impossible stage, they'd probably get a
fantastic amount of people spending the $100 reluctantly. Which IMHO isn't a
nice way to do things.

~~~
mattmaroon
You can't protect people from themselves, that's the problem with those laws.
Research shows this time and time again. Anti-gambling laws don't protect
gamblers, they just move them from safe, legal, regulated casinos to scammy
underground gaming halls and instant bingo ticket parlors. Anti-drug laws
don't decrease drug use, they just increase violent crimes.

But that aside, thankfully capitalism doesn't require you to find a "nice" way
of doing things. I'm as addicted to shaving as any player is to a Facebook
game. (We could both stop, but don't want to.) I'm even more addicted to food.
But that doesn't mean Gilette and Whole Foods are scammers.

~~~
bumblebird
I don't think that's a good analysis. Anti gambling laws does indeed push the
hardcore gamblers into underground gaming halls. But the important thing it
does is stop lots of people getting hooked in the first place. Same with drugs
etc.

Having said all this, it's clearly extremely lucrative to setup games like
this.

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mrbgty
Good at least to see someone making games for people other than the hardcore
crowd.

IMO, this shows that in gaming there isn't a straight line of worst-to-best
but instead there's lots of different types of games that appeal not only to
different types of people but different moods a person is currently in.

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zandorg
I had an email saying a Zynga user with my email address had withdrawn money
from a Mastercard (which wasn't mine - nor do I own a Mastercard). Emailed
Zynga to tell them about this odd semi-fraudulent activity, and they couldn't
give a toss. Total idiots.

I didn't lose any money, but it was unnerving.

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sanj
I believe that giving coins for inviting friends is explicitly disallowed in
Facebook's TOS.

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Tichy
Is that article just a couple of screenshots of them playing a game??? That is
even cheaper than a virtual machine gun in Mafia...

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DanielBMarkham
Ironic.

While a lot of us are thinking about cool new tech, lisp, twitter, and all the
other kinds of stuff we love talking about on HN, these guys are writing
simple flash aquarium apps and raking in millions.

Perhaps running your own startup about a lot more than simple monetary
success. I know I want to make people's lives better in addition to
controlling my own destiny.

But still, sure looks like a sweet spot to be in. I bet the field is probably
way overcrowded by now, though.

~~~
yumraj
Field is "never" overcrowded.

Before Google beat the crap out of everyone there was Yahoo, Altavista, Excite
etc. Before iPod came there were numerous mp3 players. Before Zynga, there
were numerous Facebook apps and countless Flash games.

So, if you want to do it and have a good idea, I'll say do it, give it a shot.
Whats the worst that can happen, some time wasted. Lather, rinse, repeat...

~~~
robfitz
Search doesn't benefit from a network effect, whereas social games do. It's
the same defense that Ebay/Craigslist enjoy (though admittedly less ironclad).

Someone like Zynga has brutally low customer acquisition costs compared to a
new social game developer (because they can cross promote to existing players
for only the opportunity cost of showing other low-CPM banners).

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bumblebird
This sort of thing is worse than gambling. I'd say there's a strong case for
regulating things like this. It's just preying on the addicted/weak/stupid
surely.

It's almost a bait and switch:

1\. Get user addicted to game 2\. After some time, tell user they can progress
quicker through the game if they pay money (Blackmail).

~~~
Hunchr
How is that any different than how I used to pump quarters into Street Fighter
II arcade games back in the day?

~~~
dolinsky
The difference is the barrier to entry / improvement. In the case of a quarter
machine slot game it's pay to play, while it's a bait and switch for a game
which only allows you to continue by paying more money regardless of how well
you are doing in the game. It's not necessarily illegal, but it surely is
deceptive and won't win the game any fans.

~~~
mstevens
I've been playing one of the zygna games myself.

To the level I've got, plenty of things would be easier if I was willing to
spend money, but I haven't found anything I can't do for free.

~~~
skolor
I believe that is strongly tied to why they have become so popular so fast.
You can go into the game, pick it up, and become fairly good quickly. If you
continue on with it, you slowly get better as time goes on. You then get a
friend to join, and they have to start at the beginning. They could spend the
days/weeks it took for you to get that far, or they can spend $5 and get there
in a tiny fraction of the time.

To generalize it, its easy to get a handful of people to do something. If you
offer it to them for free, there are plenty of people who will go out of their
way to advance as far as possible. Once those people start getting friends
involved, the friends will want to get that far too. By offering them a quick
advancement in exchange for money, you can then make a tidy profit.

