
Ask HN: I think I’ve burnt out. What should I do? - lostgame
Hi, HN. I’ve been here for a long time and I really respect the maturity and experience of this community, and so I’m asking for your advice.<p>I’m a 30-year-old iOS developer of about ten years, and last year suffered an incredible amount of trauma, including a breakup from a four-year relationship, two separate cases of sexual assault, and the passing of my mother.<p>While on an insured mental health break for months, I struggled through holding myself together, until finally returning to work in December.<p>I had been doing well for a while, but recently have been feeling significant mental instability - just disorganized and incoherent thoughts, and unfortunate bouts of overwhelming PTSD symptoms.<p>My coping method to that has been to try to hold my work together more and more, to a point late last week where I wasn’t even sleeping properly giving myself anxiety about work the next day.<p>I’ve fallen heavily behind on a lot of the personal responsibilities I’ve needed to ensure my continued healing but I’ve been terrified to step down from my job.<p>I live in Toronto, I’ve been with the company for more than a year, so I believe Employment Insurance would be possible for me...I’m honestly very confused as to what to do, and I’m sure others here have been in similar situations. I do have a medical professional who I deal with for this who I’ve scheduled to see tomorrow.<p>Thanks for reading, HN. This site has been a blessing in my life.<p>EDIT:
Wow, thanks for all the support and responses, extremely grateful.
======
adyavanapalli
Not that it's important making this distinction, but what you're describing
doesn't sound like occupational burnout; you've listed significant trauma that
are only exacerbating your work-related stress, and I'm really sorry you're
going through this!

First, I would agree with @codingslave in that you _SHOULD NOT_ quit your job,
if you can help it. Let me explain: Work provides important scaffolding when
you are in a rut. It provides routine and social contact. Without it, it is
possible you might start sliding into poor sleeping habits and withdrawing
socially, which can make things even worse. At the very least, find a less
stressful job to move to before leaving your current one. If this is hard to
do, please reach out to family or friends for help. Please understand that
it's absolutely okay to struggle and have bad days. Give yourself permission
to feel.

Second, it's awesome that you're seeing a medical professional/therapist about
this, and I encourage you to keep doing so regularly. "What should I do?" I
think you're approaching this well. I wish you the best!

~~~
nessus42
_> First, I would agree with @codingslave in that you SHOULD NOT quit your
job_

I agree with this. There was a period of several years when I was suffering
from mysterious medical issues that made functioning at work very difficult.
Fortunately, I had a therapist at the time. At times I told my therapist that
maybe I should go on medical disability.

My therapist advised that I should under no circumstances go on long-term
disability. That if I did, I would likely end up being on medical disability
for the rest of my life, and likely sit around being depressed forever.

Eventually, the mysterious medical issues went away, and I had managed to keep
my job and sanity in the meantime.

I'm sorry that that OP has been going through so much. I know how rough this
type of thing is, and it's truly hell on earth. What's always worked for me is
to just fake it til you make it. Take everything one day at a time. Work
towards getting your life to where you want it to be when you have the
wherewithal. Do things that you find to be fun when you can. Eventually, a day
comes when things are not so shitty anymore, and when that day comes, you'll
be happy that you persevered.

------
codingslave
Here's what I would advise. Do not under any circumstances quit your job. I've
lived through a similar scenario, and while I had a ton of savings, quitting
my job resulted in chaos. Poor sleep schedule, dropping motivation, etc. I
would get a therapist. Secondly, if your job is stressful, try and find
another developer job at a large slow moving, mediocre paying corporation.
Mostly recovering from burnout takes time, you just need to weather it out.

~~~
derekp7
The biggest thing that fixed my burnout was actually getting laid off during
the recession (09). And being unemployed for a few months. Fortunately this
was in the summer, and I spend many days up at the camper (we had an already
paid for seasonal spot about an hour away). I found myself sleeping so hard
during the afternoons that I slept through several recruiters calling me back.
Then when I finally landed a new job I hit the ground running so hard, that I
was an instant hit.

Problem is, after more than a decade I find myself constantly tired and
unmotivated for anything. I fear that burnout is starting again, but can't
afford another break in employment (and this job is actually really good --
very intense, but I don't have that feeling of dread going into work every day
[like I used to experience with high school], just exhausted).

~~~
mzarate06
_> Problem is, after more than a decade I find myself constantly tired and
unmotivated for anything. I fear that burnout is starting again..._

That statement relates to a feeling I have about burnout - I don't believe you
fully recover from it. At least in my experience, while I (and others I've
discussed this with) recovered by some point, I also felt something was left
permanently weakened, in a way that made me increasingly susceptible to later
bouts I'd experience.

There are probably normal factors that contribute to that, such as how much we
age between bouts. However, after each bout, I recall not feeling the same
after recovering as I did prior to when the bout started.

~~~
eq_sd_
This was how it was for me. I got burnt out coding a lot and studying for
interviews (as I'm mostly self taught). I started going to therapy, but got
fired after working under an awful manager that I didn't feel comfortable
opening up to. Interviewing while unemployed pushed me further into burn out.

Coding originally pulled me out of a funk, it gave me something to work at.
But now, I feel like I lost so much passion. I can't imagine coding in my free
time even if I wasn't a developer anymore.

~~~
oulu2006
I'm in a similar situation.

I used to code at home and read all sorts of books on various things like the
Linux Kernel, just for fun. Now when I switch off after work, just the thought
of looking at code makes me shudder.

------
hollander
Can you bring your work down to 4 or 3 days? For like the whole year? Going
back to 32 hours will give a lot of space, to sleep, to do other stuff. If the
company supports this, that would be great.

Daily chores, cooking, cleaning: do what is practical and what you can handle!
Order food if you cannot bring yourself to cook. Don't worry too much about
cleaning, but make sure pests stay away. When you go out for work or whatever,
make sure you are presentable, properly clothed and clean. Get a hair cut on a
regular basis. Shave. Having a house that is spic and span is no priority. On
the other hand, cleaning the house is a way to clear your mind. Walking,
fitness, biking, swimming - all the are good to clear your head and remove the
ongoing thoughts for an hour or so. This works better in a workshop with an
instructor, like a tennis or dance lesson.

------
MisterTea
You need to talk about your issues with someone in meatspace. Not a
"professional", but real people like friends or support groups. I've found
that a large amount of my depression, anxiety and stress comes from being
alone in my struggles. You feel like atlas holding up the world on your
shoulders. The thing is, you're not alone in your struggles, many people share
your problems. I feel like we've been conditioned to to take on the world
ourselves. In addition we also don't like to admit failure or confide for fear
of being labeled a whiner or complainer. We sabotage ourselves doing those
things.

Some of the best medicine was sitting around a fire in the middle of nowhere
with close friends and talking. Just let it all out, cry if you have to.
Talking about the really uncomfortable shit is important. Don't feel ashamed.

I don't know what else to add, other than delete social media bullshit because
it's a never ending feed of anxiety and noise. You don't need it because its
not real social interaction. You need to talk to real people in the real
world.

~~~
philpem
In my experience this is pretty bad advice.

Friends are usually good for a kind of support, but aren't a replacement for
an actual, trained therapist.

After a while, the mental load gets too much for them and they cut off
contact. (entirely understandable)

------
spac
Hang in there, friend. In my modest opinion, if you are not already (did not
read it in the OP), you should seek the aid of a mental health professional as
soon as possible. The problems you struggle with are real, and they are really
hard to tackle alone.

I wish you all the best, and please write at the email in my profile if you
feel the need to connect with someone.

Cheers, S

------
buserror
I went thru that, without external support over 10 years ago -- basically my
ability to concentrate and enjoy work vanished... It took me a year to
'recover' \-- I don't think I was ever 100% of what I was before TBH, but it's
because it helped me realise that there isn't JUST work that matters. I am a
lot more pragmatic about work these days, and I no longer 'live to work' as I
did before.

I don't know if any of these suggestions will help, but perhaps you should
pick up a hobby, something that is not too taxing and is still rewarding. It
can but doesn't have to be tech related either. For me it was Photography, and
I do a lot of landscape photography to this day -- but it could be anything,
perhaps these days I would pick Archery (field archery is a super way to 'zen'
out).

The idea is to get back the feeling of doing something you enjoy, and it
doesn't requires weeks of setup or zillions of hours of practice to enjoy
yourself.

If your company is cool with it, perhaps negotiate a 4 day week, and take that
one day for yourself to really unwind. Don't stare at the TV tho, so _the_
thing you enjoy, and go out and do it.

But ultimately, what I suggest is that in the future you watch over your
work/life balance. Take care of yourself!

~~~
eyegor
I would specifically advise against developing a tech related hobby. In my
experience, it just accelerates burn out. Something that forces you to be
outside/unplugged is ideal imo.

~~~
buserror
Well, what's "tech" in my case, photography provided a hell of lot of things
my nerdy side found interesting, optics formulas, sensors, films, whatever --
that's still 'tech'. You can't hide from tech for very long. Just curtain it
carefully.

Picking up an arduino and 'waste' a couple of days making LED blink can be
fantastically relaxing too.

~~~
eyegor
Oh no I just meant it as a general comment, adding to the "develop a hobby"
suggestion. I wouldn't put photography into a tech bucket.

I just think it's inevitable to hit burnout if you spend all day at work
staring at screens and come home to relax by staring at screens. Or at least a
way to burn out your eyes.

------
mntmoss
Hey lostgame, here are some thoughts:

1\. This time of year is notoriously tough on mental health, and that's
probably part of it. I got a subclinical case of SAD during the holidays. No
triggering reason, life is generally OK, but I really was not very active
outside of some minimum activity. I am finally coming out of it now that the
days are noticably longer.

2\. There's also been a seasonal cold going around that I just started getting
over today. Its symptoms were mild but included some amount of disorganization
and inability to focus. Really dramatic between yesterday and now in terms of
how much I accomplished and how difficult it was.

3\. All that notwithstanding, I have had a few traumatic experiences that
resurface on occasion. The most effective thing I've done is to find a hobby
that is really intensively engaging - not just idle escapism like most
entertainment but the top-end, "I have to stay 100% in it" kind of stuff. For
a while judo did this. It's a large committment, though, and I can't always
find time for it. More recently pinball has filled that gap, and pinball is
something I can get a quick fix of on my phone. Both of those games assault
the senses and require my total attention to succeed, which really does a lot
to reduce the ruminating aspects of traumatic stress.

4\. When I want to ruminate and escaping won't do the trick I will turn to a
diary. In here I try to settle my thoughts with storytelling. The goal - and
there is a goal here - is to not just report the facts and rationales like a
detective but to make a fairy tale out of it, adding in the kind of symbolic
resolution you feel is just or in character with your beliefs, even if it
means adding fantastic elements. When you do this, you change the story into
one that allows you to heal and guides your identity back towards something
stable. The "healing story" is an old folk technique, and a good, low-risk one
to try.

5\. It probably isn't the job, and like others are saying, you want to keep
that. A good rule to work from is "fix ordinary things", and if the job
doesn't need fixing then it probably isn't the focus.

Everything can be a struggle. Let yourself rest, but also don't let things go
when you have the energy and focus, even if it means silly stuff. I realized
that my habits are such that I am really focused to do a little more coding
right when I go to the gym...and so now I go and immediately use their
bathroom to get in an extra 20 minutes. I go in the off hours so there isn't a
traffic jam, but it's like, "well, my mindset is good here, why not use that?"
Sometimes it is little stuff that adds up like that, that gets me through the
day.

------
kempbellt
Whatever you have to, mate.

Break whatever cycles you feel are detrimental to your
emotional/physical/spiritual wellbeing and pave a new path for yourself.

If you have money saved up, or can sell a bunch of stuff and live frugally,
get out of your normal space so that you can gather new perspective on life. A
few ideas, as I know creativity can be blocked when you're feeling the weight
of everything. Feel free to ignore, or take any of these and run with them.

\- Go on a road trip, alone or with friends (having friends around will keep
your mind from thinking about things), for a week or two. If you don't have a
job right now, go longer. Or fly somewhere new.

\- Stay in a hotel, or go camping, just because. Break up the norm.

\- Learn a new physically engaging skill. Snowboarding takes me out of that
burnt out state of mind.

\- Go on a silent retreat. Some of them are donation based.

> My coping method to that has been to try to hold my work together more and
> more

Remember, life may be work, but work is not life.

Most importantly, breathe.

~~~
Paddywack
> Learn a new physically engaging skill. Most importantly, breathe.

I learned diving. It was great \- taught me how to slow down entirely \- you
need to be 100% "immersed" in what you are doing \- you have to breathe
consistently and calmly

I loved it and it helped me heaps (in addition to doing all the other good
things mentioned above!)

------
MrDresden
First off, I'm sorry to hear what you are going through. Having to go through
one of those events would be traumatic enough, so it is difficult to imagine
how you must feel.

I am not trained in anyway to do diagnostics. Like others answering your
question I would hazard a guess though that you may be going through something
of a more serious nature than simply burnout.

As someone who experienced burnout personally just last year as well as a
cancer diagnostic in my partner alongside that, I can't stress it enough how
important it is to seek professional outside help in these situations.
Especially in a case involving sexual trauma. You don't want that gnawing at
the back of your mind, unresolved for years.

Psychologists are trained to help people cope with, process, and get through
what you are experiencing. But they can't help you unless you reach out to
them. And know that there is no shame in asking for help. We all have done it,
whether we admit to it or not.

My experience was an eye opener. Simply the discussion, with a neutral party
did wonders for me. I was also prescribed any kind of exercise where my heart
rate would go up and, more importantly, involved deep rapid breathing. There
are bio-feedback loops involved there that help remedy some of the depressive
symptoms..

Also know that this kind of state can take time to heal from. It has been 5
months for me and just now do I feel myself coming together as the person I
was before.

Hope it all goes well for you.

------
digitalsushi
Someone quipped, "how does one untoast bread?" when asked about recovering
from professional burnout.

I've been strung up on whether this was flippant, or insightful.

------
bsurmanski
A lot of people mention therapy. If you need specific recommendations, I am
close friends with a therapist in Toronto that is starting up her own
practice:

personal page (WIP):
[https://meganpsychotherapy.com/](https://meganpsychotherapy.com/)

Association page: [http://thecalmcollective.ca/megan-lawrence-
therapist/](http://thecalmcollective.ca/megan-lawrence-therapist/)

I haven't visited her in a professional context, but I've known her for over
10 years and I have confidence in her abilities. She's very approachable and
easy to talk to.

~~~
lostgame
Hey, really appreciate this. I’ll check her out, thanks!

------
Ididntdothis
Do you do any psychological therapy? I don't think you can pull through such a
crisis alone or by working hard. I have had similar situations in the past and
I have learned that mental well-being is the most important thing. Trying to
power through usually doesn't work.

Also: When I had trouble I was too embarrassed to tell anybody but actually
talking about it is very therapeutical.

~~~
lostgame
I’ve been embarrassed to be honest and also, I suppose, being dishonest with
myself and coping with the stress in extremely stupid ways, just being with
friends all the time because I really don’t like being alone and having to
process everything.

My plan is to go to my psychiatrist tomorrow morning, I spent today with my
bestie to firstly relax and sort my thoughts out, and told her about some of
what’s been going on, but, ultimately, I thought a post to a tech community I
respect was a good idea. It’s probably the clearest-headed move I’ve done in a
bit.

I’m also going through some significant dental pain after a surgery atm as
well, so, to be honest, life’s been easier. >.<

~~~
kenshi
You are dealing with a lot, in a compressed period of time.

Try to remember that your first priority and responsibility is looking after
your own mental, physical and spiritual (I don't mean this in a religious
sense) well being.

In your situation, work really should be the lowest priority that you can
afford to make it. If you can afford to take extended time off to deal with
everything you need to, I would highly recommend that you give it serious
consideration.

~~~
Ididntdothis
I wouldn’t just take time off without a plan for doing something. It’s really
easy to spend months or years at home without improvements. Go to a
psychologist or something. I once spent a month at a yoga ashram which was a
turnaround for me.

------
stillwater56
I can only speak from my personal experience with burnout, but I found that
one of the hardest parts of recovering was the fact that it simply takes time.
I quit my job and tried to make immediate, drastic lifestyle changes expecting
immediate, drastic improvements, but burnout takes a while to develop and a
while to recover from.

For me, the best thing was to find some stability (spending more time with my
SO and exercising—albeit extremely simply, literally just going for a quick
run each day) was key.

------
newjobseeker
Sorry to hear you are going through this. I'm going through a crisis myself. I
left a bad workplace a few months ago, and took some time off. Now that I'm
back in job search mode, I'm also going through some physical health issues
and the added stress has given me a lot of anxiety. I've tried meditation,
yoga, etc. and nothing is helping. I'm having real physical symptoms and
everyone is telling me it's all anxiety, but I am not sure.

It is scary to step away from a job, because the uncertainty can be
overwhelming. But if you have a good support system (friends/parents/etc), I
would leave the job and focus on your health, it's more important than
anything else as it affects everything you do/feel.

~~~
eyegor
I'd advise taking some time to disconnect. Full disconnect from phone, tech,
internet and just focus on something else. Music, art, exercise, hiking, etc.
I went through some pretty rough anxiety when I was laid off for the first
time, the most helpful thing for me mentally was noping out onto the
Appalachian Trail for a week or so. After a couple of days away from it all,
my brain finally started to relax and I came back with a better sense of
focus. Ofc, I've always enjoyed hiking so ymmv. But I think the most important
part was the disconnection.

~~~
newjobseeker
Thanks for reading and for the advice. I've tried to disconnect but not fully,
I've still been talking to recruiters, reading job postings, etc. I just did a
remote coding interview, and it went pretty awful but it felt like a sense of
relief to do it because I had been dreading it for a while and was super
nervous leading up to it. Now that it's done, I feel like I can relax a bit
and also accept that things can go poorly and it doesn't have to be
devastating.

------
AdrianB1
I am not a therapist, so my opinion is not medical advice, but this what I
would do: take a few vacations of 2-3 weeks each and travel on the continent;
nothing fancy, just a disconnect. I have a few friends that I take for a very
long bike ride, if you have anyone that can join you it's a great thing to do;
the purpose is to disconnect, so the destination does not matter, just the
activity. The second activity: get a bunch of books (non-technical), go to a
cabin in the woods and read. I prefer science fiction or fiction, not poetry
as most of the poetry has a depressing effect on me.

Don't do this for less than a full week, it has no significant effect.

~~~
core-questions
This all sounds great, except what do I do with my wife and kids during this
time?

Vacation is not vacation for those of us with a young family - it's actually
more work than being at work is, sometimes. Good work, rewarding, but also
severely draining sometimes.

~~~
AdrianB1
You have a different situation than the person who asked the question,
assuming the same answer apply to everyone is a mistake.

How it worked for me in a similar situation: parents. I live in a country
where families are not completely destroyed, so we had 2 pairs of parents to
help with the kids. Taking the wife in vacation is doable and effective.

~~~
core-questions
True, I'm already relying on two sets, in fact. Problem is, we need them so
much already that lumping the kids on them entirely for weeks would be just
too much. Toddlers, ya know. Lots of energy.

------
Blackstone4
That sounds awful. Sorry to hear that.

I'm not sure what to say...you've raised so many things. It might be worth
spending time with friends, loved ones or a therapist to work through it.

One person once said, try and view yourself from outside yourself as a small
child. Be compassionate to yourself and love yourself as though you were
looking after that child. Go easy on yourself and sometimes it's better to
take a break and re-build and come back stronger than possible cause injury by
persisting.

I've been through some difficult periods and somethings worked for me like:
spending time in nature, cutting out the things that caused pain in my life,
doing sport and meditating.

------
avgDev
I also have problems not the same but you need to seek professional help if
you have a hard time coping. From your post it appears your job is not the
problem but outside factors.

I also suggest reading "Maybe you should talk to someone".

We are rewarded for seeming happy and excited all the time, but often we need
people in our life who we can open up to.

------
jfitzpa22
See a therapist if you have not done so already. A therapist can help you
develop healthy coping strategies, work through the significant trauma you
have experienced over the last year, and possibly refer you to a psychiatrist
for drug treatment if deemed therapeutically necessary.

------
shekharshan
Please prioritize psychological well-being over everything else. Please have a
therapist for regular counseling. As a practicing Buddhist I can tell you of
two excellent teachers in Canada, Yuttadhammo Bhikkhu near Toronto and Ajahn
Sona in British Columbia. Check out their videos on YouTube. Do remember that
there are a lot of people, who you may not know, but still they care for you.
Sending you lots of good wishes from across the border. Take care dear friend!

------
scottndecker
In my experience, when I'm burnt out, I find a new side project to get excited
about. Excitement in one area of my life bleeds into others. I've worked on
new apps, starting a company, woodworking projects, training my dog. Whatever
it is, find something that awakens you again. It's best if you can see it
possibly leading to a new career. That way it'll give you hope for and
ownership over your future.

~~~
duncan-donuts
While I tend to do this as well it is important to also say taking time to do
nothing is also a good use of time. We can’t do everything and sometimes when
you’re already burnt out putting a ton of energy into something new can make
things worse. YMMV

~~~
scottndecker
Yeah, for sure. It's a judgment call on if you're overloading or not. The
point is to find something you're excited about. Not a million things you're
excited about.

------
vigilante9
Here's what I do, in a somewhat similar situation.

1\. Control my thinking. Practicing the basics of cognitive behavioral
therapy.

2\. Fix my sleep. Going to bed at 10, waking up at six. Eight hours of sleep
per day. This requires getting rid of anything that disturbs the circadian
rhythm, screens and lights are big offenders. I use f.lux and ultra-warm
lightbulbs in the evening.

3\. Fix my diet (ties into sleep). Intermittent fasting for at least 16 hours.
Avoiding the carb/sugar spikes. I also went Keto for a while. I must advise
against veganism.

4\. Get exercise (also ties into sleep). Exercise is as potent as common
antidepressants with none of the side-effects. A little goes a long way.

5\. For work, a four-day work week and a short commute made a big difference.

I don't know if any of these can be left out. I couldn't fix my sleep on its
own, without doing the other things. You may think that it's your anxiety
keeping you from sleep, but it could actually be your eating and/or the lights
keeping sleep hormones away so that you end up awake in bed, thinking. Then if
you don't get good sleep, everything else just gets worse.

I feel perfectly stable now. Not fantastic, but stable. It's a process, took
me about two months.

~~~
SomaticPirate
Why do you advise against veganism? Going plant-based was easily one of the
more effective ways of becoming healthy for me. It lowered my cholesterol
levels and I think that it was instrumental in lowering my overall
cardiovascular risk. I agree with everything else you are saying but I don’t
understand why a vegan diet would not be considered a healthy lifestyle change
on the same level as keto. From people I have met who do keto they usually
increase their meat consumption and usually that includes things like bacon
and deli meats which the largest casual link to increased cancer risk
[https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/10/26/451211964/ba...](https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/10/26/451211964/bad-
day-for-bacon-processed-red-meats-cause-cancer-says-who)

~~~
zackmorris
I am against veganism too, but mainly because nutritionally it doesn't match
how humans evolved. So for that reason, the only fad diet I really agree with
is paleo.

That said, everyone is different. I gave up pork 20 years ago for ethical
reasons, but ended up with a somewhat rare (at least in the US) meat
deficiency because I work out extremely hard but try to eat mostly beans and
rice. But I have friends with the same lifestyle as me, but with high
cholesterol, who would probably benefit greatly from the mostly plant-based
diet I was on.

Unfortunately, there are macro nutrients and vitamins that are effectively
missing from the plant world:

[https://inourishgently.com/vegan-depression-
tryptophan/](https://inourishgently.com/vegan-depression-tryptophan/)

I would honestly love it if we had impossible burgers or almond milk with
anywhere near the nutritional content of meat and dairy. But we just aren't
there yet. Ethically, I feel a good compromise is to only buy free range eggs
and dairy, and try to avoid buying meat in the store. If someone is serving
meat (and someone always is), just eat it, because throwing it away is less
ethical IMHO.

------
xivusr
First of all thanks for your honesty here. Sometimes the hardest part is just
reaching out.

Many of the challenges you've experienced I've also experienced. I've found
that a vacation to a 2nd or 3rd world country for at least 2-3 weeks will help
me reset. I think it's a combination of going somewhere I've never been and
being able to see people less fortunate who seemingly are happy with much less
than what we have here.

Death is incredibly difficult for me to accept..and trying to pretend like I'm
fine when Im mourning a loss its near impossible. People tend to be
understanding to a point but healing is personal and everyone deals with loss
differently.

I've found that helping others is also incredibly rewarding and useful to
reconnect when life has pulled the rug out from other me. No matter what I'm
going through there is always someone going through something even more
challenging. Even if all I can do is listen to them and share their
experience. Sometimes that's all any of us need - someone to empathize with
our situation.

Finally I add one more thing I've found. I tend to try and avoid pain and have
struggled with addiction in the past. Fortunately my last bout of severe
depression I used the previous experience and decided to run the Camino de
Santiago. I ran the 500+ mile trail from France to the coast of Spain and in a
lot of physical discomfort. Most people walk this over the course of a month -
I would love to have a chance to do this again with more time. Absolutely life
changing and you will make friends from all over the world. Highly recommend
trying something uncomfortable -- its an incredible to be able to feel
physical pain and yet still be grateful!

I hope you find peace and grow from this!

------
jaw
I'm so sorry you're dealing with this.

About a year ago I resigned from a ~9-year job due to burn out (relationship
issues and the death of my father were major contributing factors). I had put
the decision off for a long time because I thought I should have a concrete
plan first, but ultimately decided I'd never have the energy to plan next
steps until I'd taken a long time off to recuperate.

So I just left. The time off hasn't fixed everything, but it has been
enormously beneficial to me and I'm much more excited and optimistic about the
future. I don't know how the gap will affect my career but at least now I feel
like I have the energy to deal with whatever obstacles I encounter.

I was very privileged to be able to do that and I know your situation may
differ; I don't have practical advice on dealing with financial concerns. But
make sure you're sharing your feelings and getting advice from people around
you, and - if you can keep your needs met - don't stay in an unbearable
situation just from fear that something as good or better won't come along in
the future.

------
Nursie
1\. Realise work is subservient to life, you work to enable life, not the
other way around. As such re-evaluate and keep your goal in mind .

2\. If work isn't taking you where you where you want to go and worse, if it's
hurting you, you need to either find a new tack or different work. I know this
is easy to say from a position of privilege, but would it be hard for you to
change post or change company?

~~~
lostgame
Firstly - thanks so much for your input.

Secondly - I’m concerned about the interim - I don’t want to leave my post
here without having a plan. My company is amazing and treats me very well. I
just recognize that unfortunately right now I’d certainly be better off in a
position where I could work remotely more, for instance. I don’t know how
possible or plausible that is. I’m in the process of figuring that out.

~~~
aguyfromnb
> _I don’t know how possible or plausible that is. I’m in the process of
> figuring that out._

Totally plausible. I wouldn't walk into work _tomorrow_ and quit your job, but
let's face it: you have experience in one of the most in-demand skills on the
planet. I'd bet you wouldn't have an issue finding another job. The problem
is: would _another_ job solve your issue? It might not.

As others have said, what you need is time. I'm not sure in what way your
medical leave was covered the first time, but as a fellow Canadian, our
country is extremely generous in that manner (and progressive with respect to
mental health). You might be able to take an extended medical leave that would
allow you to draw EI. If you can survive on the $500/week the benefit pays, it
might be worth it.

Good luck!

------
Ruphin
Hi

Shit sucks sometimes. It's not a nice feeling when you're constantly trying to
hold yourself together. You convince yourself you're doing all right, because
you're hanging on, but you have no energy to develop yourself or do new
things, and you're slowly sinking into a hole that becomes ever more difficult
to climb out of. After a while, even basic things take so much energy that it
becomes a daily struggle to keep up with laundry, cooking, cleaning.

How do you climb out of that hole? I don't know. I think there's no easy
solution. But talking helps. I don't have any answers for you, but if you just
want to talk with someone who understands what you're going through, you can
find my contact info in my profile.

------
thrownaway954
I can speak from experience on what _not_ to do. DO NOT DRINK. very, very,
similar things happened to me and my drinking only resulted in utter chaos.

~~~
g0rbongler
+1

------
logfromblammo
If work is the only stable thing in your life, you should try not to let it
fall apart, but it is designed to support you financially, not emotionally. It
can't hold you up by itself.

You're in Canada rather than the US, so there are fewer barriers to
professional mental health care, as far as I am aware. Go see a psychiatrist
or clinical therapist.

You have had _four_ major stressors in one year, and then piled on change
social behaviors and change in sleep habits. It's justified. Go talk with a
pro so they can hold you together with duct tape and baling wire while working
out a plan for more permanent repairs.

------
ericmuyser
The trick to burnout is don't believe it exists. I stopped believing I'm
actually burned out, and I've experienced much less burnout by simply not
giving into it. Perseverance. But actually it does exist and it can take a
strong hold sometimes, but you shouldn't feel yourself "becoming" or easing
into burnout. If you are, you're giving into it, letting it take you. Persist
until it's an unavoidable thing, then discuss with therapist if needed. Take
the advice from others about physical activity and whatnot.

~~~
theli0nheart
Burnout does exist, and just imagining it “doesn’t exist” will just delay the
inevitable, and probably make it worse than it would be if you just accept it
for what it is and work towards solving the core problems.

------
heymartinadams
Dear lostgame,

First of, I’m so, so sorry to hear. What you’ve gone through (sexual assault,
twice) is something nobody should have to go through; and the loss of your
mother and your breakup as well (I’ve experienced the death of a parent and a
significant breakup, too).

Your courage in sharing what’s happened to you touches me. Carl Jung, the
Swiss psychologist, famously said that “if you can feel it, you can heal it.”
And I think part of what you might be doing, by publicly sharing where you’re
at, could perhaps be to give yourself permission to feel things more deeply,
and letting yourself be witnessed doing so.

In case you’d like to consider joining our startup — we’d be honoured in
considering you for a position. We’re a different kind of startup: work/life
balance and authenticity is key. We’re basically starting a life-long family
of people who resonate with each other :) Our product is still in development,
but we’ve got an exciting brand: We are Ecstatic (accessible at ecstatic.com).

Oh! And we’re based in Vancouver, beautiful British Columbia.

Reason I’m mentioning this is because we don’t think of what we’re doing as
work, but as play (in all seriousness). We call it “plorking”. Perhaps you
need to find a company (such as ours) that let’s you be you throughout — no
stress, just creative play.

Be well, and best wishes on your path. Whatever happens, I wish you so much
happiness and peace. You deserve it. We each do.

------
lcall
Others have made good comments. My take (with some experience, and until I
read everything else here) is: don't (ever!) give up on life, be patient, be
reasonable/honest/kind toward yourself & others, and continue forward. Things
will eventually be OK, especially if we try to do what we know is right.

And to help find your purpose and real balance in life, I have thought &
written much at [http://lukecall.net](http://lukecall.net) (a simple site;
hopefully very skimmable; no sales; see the "life lessons" link about 1/2-way
down the page, then maybe the "growth/mm" links like "emotional", and feel
free to send comments). As I learn things over time, I try to add to it, in a
systematic/organized/skimmable way.

All the best.

(some edits above for clarity)

edit: ps: after they rule out enough other things, CFS is a possibility.
Wikpedia has a page, and more info for patients and practitioners is at
[https://batemanhornecenter.org](https://batemanhornecenter.org) . They seem
honest n helpful, but hopefully that link is not useful :) .

------
weq
Hey... PTSD is not something u can just walk away from. I was married to a
girl who suffered sexual assault/ptsd before we met.... Its one of those
conditions that will evolve with you and it will effect you in waves as well
as via a steady undertone of anxiety.

I recommend you really focus on your healing journey. Its not something you
can ignore. If you need someone random to talk to about about this with, send
me an email.

~~~
cynusx
Not to diminish her suffering, but I would like to counter a bit the
inevitability of PTSD causing long-term harm.

PTSD occurrence in soldiers follows a bell-curve with only the lower quartile
having a sustained psychological disorder. The middle majorities get
traumatized but after a varying length of time enter a phase of post-trauma
growth. One quartile is not significantly affected by trauma and can shrug it
off.

Apparently optimism is a key element of trauma-resistance which is a trainable
emotional intelligence skill.

I'd recommend the book "on mental toughness" from harvard business review for
some more insights on this

------
throw-666666
I've been in a similar situation, and would recommend to take some time off
and find a good therapist if that's possible for you.

In the Netherlands it's common to take sick leave and get paid 75% if you're
sick for more than 2 months. Insurance covers the sick leave for your
employer. I've been sitting at home for over a year now, working on my mental
health, and just took on a new job. I can not recommend a burnout to anyone,
for some outsiders it seems like I had a year-long vacation. This was
definitely not the case, I hated it. It has been very healthy though in
retrospect. Before my burnout I hated myself and felt like a complete failure,
I thought everything was my fault.

I can highly recommend therapy as well, I've been suffering from depression
for over 10 years, and finally sought out help last summer. It's trial and
error, but for the first time it feels like I regained some control over my
thoughts/life, and make sense of my behaviour.

In the period towards my total burnout (panic attacks/fatigue/depression), I
was very irritable, emotionally unstable, drank too much, started taking drugs
to handle the stress of working 50-70hrs a week and dealing with my life and
deteriorating relationship with a suicidal and junkie boyfriend, amongst other
things.

Taking time off, focussing on myself completely, breaking up with my
boyfriend, cooking, walking and reading helped a lot. Doing small positive
things. I cook for my ex now once a week, I like to see still him and just
want to let him know I care about him, also it doesn't take that much energy
and benefits us both.

Start saying no to people, define your boundaries, all that matters is you!
Listen to your body. All the best!

------
RobertRoberts
Find the things you are currently grateful for and focus on that any time you
feel out of it. I have faced what you are dealing with most of my life. I
still have to have a routine to get out of bed every morning.

Others have said not to quit your job. I agree, you need more stability, not
less. Maybe consider changing your focus? Maybe now is the time to try
something new at your work, just to change some aspects of your environment.
Only good can come from this from my perspective, either you realize you
actually like your previous work, or you find something else more fulfilling.
(and maybe less stressful?)

Helping others or even talking to others who are facing similar issues. (other
comments are suggesting similar) I have found that if I talk with others who
actively fight against their problems they are a help to me. If I find people
who are struggling that need some help and I can help them, this also helps
me.

But, the people I avoid are those that are actively not facing their problems
and/or refuse to, avoid these people like the plague for the time being.
(maybe down the road you will be stronger and be able to help them or tolerate
them...)

You will be fine eventually. This is a temporary state of your life. This may
seem trite, but it's true.

One thing I say to myself when I've been in real mental trouble, but not
physical is to tell myself everything, right now, is fine. I am ok. I can do
this one thing that is in front of me. This is often how I get out of bed to
take a shower, this is a low stress activity that makes me feel better than
staying in bed feeling terrible.

If I need to, I repeat this process through out the day. I am sorry you are
going through this. I hope you get some comfort and strength you are looking
for.

------
throwawaypa123
As tired as this cliche is, I have to ask if you workout.

I found that lifting or intense cardio helps me move out of my funks.

When I'm suffering through an intense workout I don't think about anything
else. When I finish the workout, I can be so exhausted that I pass out and go
to sleep. that in itself is a blessing.

Lastly, so much of stress is self-imposed. You are where you are, and whatever
plans you have, are determined by you.

Be safe. Good luck.

~~~
jurassic
Came here to say this. Even better if OP can find/afford a gym with a strong
social component; I know people who only marginally care about fitness but
really really care about seeing their friends at the gym and that is enough
get them to go to the gym several times per week. But you won't find this at
most cheap commercial chains where people just want to bang out some cardio
and get out. You have to look around at more niche facilities to find the
right vibe.

------
xzel
Take a long shower. Get a full night sleep. Take a sabbatical for as long as
you need. Relax until you're bored. Then do whatever gives you joy. Then
figure out if its your work (that is line of work etc), working conditions or
something else that lead to your burn out. Make a plan to guardrail against
it.

Personally for me, I need to take at least 1 personal day / 3 day weekend
every month otherwise I start hating my work. I also need to take at least a
week on a relaxing vacation (not sightseeing / running around doing stuff for
a week!!) about every 6-8 months. I also try to work on _my_ schedule the best
I can. I like to work from about 8am to 2pm and then some amount between
10pm-2am; for whatever reason those are my best working hours. Take as much
time as you can to learn to listen to your body because I really think you can
catch burnout before it reaches meltdown. I haven't had a proper burnout since
2016. Best of luck my friend.

------
sdegutis
Balance is of course important. But purpose is just as important. We must have
good and useful reasons for everything we do. Anxiety and pain are just
indicators that something is off balance or being done without good purpose
and reason. The question we must all ask ourselves is, what am I even here
for? Why am I alive today? What is my purpose? Whatever conclusion we come to,
everything in our lives must flow from that purpose of existence. And when
things don't seem to line up or add up, then we have to start back at square
one and ask ourselves if our estimation of our purpose was wrong, and use the
new hard earned life experience to try to figure it out all over again, and
make everything flow from that, and keep repeating until we finally have a
life without these internal alarms going off.

------
quangv
Priotize health for sure. That's the base. Everything else will come easier on
a foundation of good health.

~~~
lostgame
Thanks so kindly for the confidence of this statement. I feel like I’m
gaslighting myself - if that makes any sense. So many confusing lines of
thought that all seem valid, that settling on one just seems tough.

~~~
teekert
Perhaps try meditating? It's works for my negatively racing mind, usually. My
thoughts are clouds, the state I wish for is a blue sky where clouds that
appear are quickly dissolved or blown away. Try the trial of Headspace. I
think they nicely hit the balance of not trying to force it, just never stop
trying. An empty mind can feel very nice.

I never sunk as deep as you though. I get weeks of "stuck on negative issues
in my life". Daily meditation of only 10 min already seems to help, I am by no
means an expert by the way. Headspace helped me and when I try meditating now,
I hear the voice of the Headspace woman (you can also select a man) talking to
myself. When I feel bad again I may sign up for the service, but as said the
10 part trial is nice already.

Edit: 2 times meditation advice in 5 min ;) As below, it may not help very
much very fast, still, after trying to actively calm my mind 10 min I usually
feel better already. Even when it "fails" for 9.5 out of the 10 min.

No relation to Headspace btw ;)

------
flexq
I haven’t read a lot of the comments, but I agree with not quitting your job.
Looking for another though, maybe something to look at, at some point. For me
a vacation overseas (I choose south east Asia) where there are beautiful
beaches and people who like to have a chat, has done me wonders to get me back
on track. I forget about the world back home, create new connections (even for
a bit), and drop anxiety because the pressure of just being some where so
foreign seems to force it out of me. When I get back I always seem to have a
new sense of self. I can imagine it wont work for everyone and I could have
got lucky on the nice people Ive met, but now I swear by a trip at least once
a year for my sanity.

------
Wump
If you’re looking for someone to talk to about how you’ve been feeling and how
better to cope, I highly recommend texting crisistextline.org

(I’m a volunteer counselor there.) The conversation is purely over text, with
someone you listens non-judgementally and can offer coping strategies.

------
slics
\- at work ask for a task outside of your normal job responsibilities /
something different to try and change your thinking

\- find someone to share / bounce your concerns with or simply to hangout with

\- volunteer to a kitchen soup or some community event ( you will see with
your own eyes real pain and struggle)

\- visit a church or a social group therapy where people share their stories
and find methods to help or recommend help to one another

\- buy a camper and work remotely. Park that thing near a lake or water,
sunset or sunrise close to a water scenery helps you think and appreciate
little things in life that we take for granted due to the craziness that takes
most of our daily routine.

Good luck mate. Seek help. It’s out there, you just have to find it. -

------
dabockster
First off, don't quit your job. Your job provides a routine for you to follow.
Otherwise, you could begin to slip even further down the hole.

Next, you mentioned PTSD from sexual assault. This isn't burnout. You need
professional psychiatric help. Please get it ASAP and stop reading random
internet comments (like this one).

But if you can't find an appointment for a few weeks/months, some of the
symptoms might be fixed with a multivitamin (OneADay or a generic equivalent -
it doesn't push too far above 100% FDA daily value except for B12 and D, which
are actually beneficial sometimes in higher doses).

------
halfnormalform
It sounds like time to get back into mental health treatment so you can deal
with the trauma because workaholism is no longer working as a distraction.

The end of a close relationship, sexual assault, and the passing of your
mother are each things that can seriously challenge your self-concept in
difficult ways. They also will take a toll on your ability to trust others.
Together it sounds like too much too fast to be processed outside of survival
mode.

If you can't get into individual therapy, maybe you can find a support group?
Even something phone or chat based is better than nothing.

Please know that you are not alone and there are a lot of us here who have
struggled and continue to struggle. And go for walks with no phone or music!

------
j45
There is a possibility you could take a short term leave combined with a
honest vacation where you do nothing but sit and collect dust. Time in nature
without distraction is a big help I find.

I wish you all the best, remember to be nice to yourself as you are to others.

~~~
lostgame
Unfortunately, there’s a lot of responsibility I’ve got to take care of, and a
vacation is not an immediate option. I’m going to need to step up my mental
health care in a serious way, and that will require staying in the city
(Toronto).

~~~
j45
I hear you, I did a way too long sting that was 24/7/365 on call, couldn’t fly
more than 2 hours away. Super unhealthy over a period of a few years.

I try to remind myself of the reality is you’d likely be way more effective
with time off away. Not to be morose, if you went away work would replace you
within a week or a month.

What helped for me was learning to take one honest minute per hours, one hour
per day, and one day per week. And build from there. Find the things that get
you in touch with yourself and make them non negotiable.

------
codekendo
I want to let you know I am going through a similar situation. I did not quit
work but I am taking a break from my work.

Have a wall or separation between work and life; find balance. Do not make
work a priority in your life, separate the two.

Ask yourself brings you joy and happiness and just do it. Work does not define
you, it should be a means to bring about joy and happiness.

If work is a place where you cannot achieve balance or a really negative
place, I would work there until you find a better environment.

If work is a positive place, focus on what you have, reach out to people, ask
them if they felt the same way and how they manage those feelings.

I wish you the best of luck on your search to find balance in your life.

------
wtracy
1\. Therapy, therapy, therapy. If it's not helping, change therapists until it
does.

2\. Find activities that help you recharge. It took me a long time to
understand that "having fun" and recharging are _not_ the same thing.

3\. Look into the possibility of hiring a personal assistant to manage things
like cooking and laundry, at least until your symptoms are more manageable.

4\. Someone else recommended "Feeling Good" by David Burns. It's an excellent
book that I always recommend, but I don't know if it's up to the task of
helping with PTSD. Go into it understanding that it will help with a lot of
your problems, but probably not all of them.

------
wonderwonder
This is not work burnout my friend this is something far more caused by all
you have gone through. I am assuming the "medical professional" you mentioned
is some sort of mental health counselor, and is so that is great, if not
definitely find one. In addition you may want to look into some sort of group
therapy session. Speaking with people who have gone through what you have
(most of us on this thread have not) is going to go a long way towards getting
you the advice you need. On top of that human contact with those that have
been through something similar is likely going to be helpful.

I recommend googling support groups in your area.

All the best.

------
nemild
I've been writing a series called Notes to a Young Software Engineer, and
handling burnout was one of my first posts.

Most importantly, see a licensed medical professional. Burnout is often
confused for other health issues, and you may not be dealing with burnout, but
rather a larger health issue (e.g., PTSD).

If it is truly burnout, some that work for me are treating my body well,
cultivating human relationships, and addressing root causes at work.

[https://www.nemil.com/on-software-engineering/beware-
burnout...](https://www.nemil.com/on-software-engineering/beware-burnout.html)

------
rafaelvasco
First, sorry to hear about your situation. Hang in there. Then, absolutely
take a break from work. Don't try to power it through.

The inherent stresses of day to day work will be multiplied by 100x because of
your emotional state. Take a break;

Seek therapy. Not those useless psychologists that just hear you and say
nothing. The professional must actively talk to you, understand your situation
and give you the wisdom you lack to get out of your emotional trauma.

Very important too, don't dwell in the past. Most people keep reliving that
which has passed. Look forward. Seek what motivates you. What inspires you.
Restart with a clean mind.

------
codyb
That sounds really rough. I hope you’re okay.

One thing that has helped me when I’m low is letting myself know it’s okay to
just get a little bit done.

I don’t need to be unhappy my whole room hasn’t been cleaned, I can be happy
at least I cleared out the used dishes.

Making sure most things aren’t an all or nothing proposition has been helpful
in maintaining a more positive attitude for me.

“Boom at least did five pushups!”.

“Bang got those books in a neat pile!”.

It may not be a lot, but maybe you too can also receive some joy from the
little things you’re rocking out daily.

All the best of luck and more peaceful times ahead lostgame.

------
softwaredoug
I'm really sorry to hear this.

I can't say anything I've been through approaches what you've gone through.
However, I have been burnt out recently with chronic health issues. I have
some PTSD from some child abuse I went through, which means I struggle with
burnout and stress a fair amount.

The hardest thing I've is the pressure we put on ourselves. Nobody is judging
us harder than ourselves. There's nothing wrong with finding a work
environment that is pretty laid back, and cut yourself lots of slack. I did
this when my first child was born, and knew having a kid would really push me,
especially given my abuse background. I stuck with a pretty 'maintenance mode'
project, and wasn't stressing too much about work. I was certainly lucky to be
in that kind of situation.

Definitely seek out mental health help (maybe you are as you're on a mental
health break?). There are a lot of techniques for overcoming PTSD. EMDR, for
example, is one very effective technique. There's also somatic psychotherapy.
You can do this. Seek out support. And if you don't like your therapist, don't
hesitate to switch. A good therapist can be a very personal decision.

If you work at a good place, and you feel safe doing so, maybe consider
talking to your supervisors about your situation? I think it's tricky knowing
whether to do this, and maybe you feel safe, but maybe you're afraid of the
consequences? Both would be understandable. If you have a lot of trust in your
workplace, talking about it would at least give them context for what you're
going through, and you might be able to collaborate on a path forward that
gets you help and gets you to a place in your career you can be laid back for
a while. I've had positive results talking about my own issues to colleagues,
but I know not every work place or boss is the same...

Culturally, Westerners are supposed to be cheery and happy all the time. I
don't think this is reasonable. Forgive yourself and cut yourself lots of
slack. I'm can be somewhat grumpy a fair amount, especially when sleep is
impacted! Your negative emotions are perfectly valid and I think it's a shame
we all feel stigmatized by expressing them in social situations

Best of luck to you!

------
manishsharan
Please don't count on EIP if you leave your job on your own. Employment
insurance only kicks in if you are laid off or let go . You may be able to go
on long term disability but please consult a lawyer.

------
nojvek
It really depends on your work relationship with your manager and peers. If
you have a great manager i’m sure they’ll be understanding enough to balance
work responsibilities that you can go through the rough patch without
resorting to quitting.

I can only imagine what you’re going through. As others have said, give
yourself permission to feel. It’s okay to cry, to be angry (don’t break things
tho) to feel like shit, to have a bit of insomnia.

Surround yourself with close friends, be easy on yourself and remember that
time heals most wounds.

------
totaldude87
I would suggest to scale down a bit from work, you have already completed
almost 1/4th of your career and if it gives you stress now, imagine 30 more
years of it.

Then try to start helping people in anyway you can, like crossing a road, or
buying coffee for a stranger, or go to a elder community..

These kinds of small acts will give your breathing space to think and enrich
the mind and bring in more positivity.

Always remember that first thing is to get out of bad thoughts.. Therapy as
someone said might also help , but it comes to affordability.

------
darkmighty
My two cents: give yourself some time; try to take it easy on the job (even if
you feel pressure to complete -- "force" yourself to take it easy) or find
another job. It's incredible how a little time goes a long way in relieving
many symptoms of distress. And then, add some enjoyable things in moderation
to your routine, like a hobby, playing music, dancing, etc, to help divert
worry from the job (and reward yourself with satisfying activities).

------
mgarfias
Dunno if anyone else has mentioned this, but go get a full medical work up. I
was feeling like you - traumatic divorce, much stress, etc. as that eased the
burn out didn’t get better.

Finally went to get chemical help for the anxiety, and in the process found
out: I was diabetic, hypertensive, and had a tumor causing a hormone imbalance
(that probably triggered the first two symptoms).

Even if It turns out there is nothing medically wrong, it’s worth the time and
effort.

------
Simulacrum0
Sorry to read of your struggles. i nearly skipped to reading the next item of
interest but i recall how important it can be to echo "hang in there, as bad
as things get, know that life is cyclical and it will get better, given time,
perseverance, and reflecting"...aka 'always darkest before dawn'.

I cannot advise on the job, but the sooner you can communicate your
burnout/work-behind status, certainly the better to improving your day.

------
ArtDev
Unplug, get away. Travel. Run, eat healthy, do yoga, meditate, take
psychedelics (?).. and re-discover what you love about life. Make new friends.

It's been a very tough transition for me after a complete burnout two years
ago.

Now I am divorced and the healthiest I have been in a long time.

I took a pay cut but I am enjoying my work again. Unplug. You can retool later
when you actually care again.

Life is so much more than stupid computers, corporate bs and the technical
puzzles we fret over.

------
RickJWagner
First, I am very sorry, especially for the loss of your mother.

The answer I am about to suggest works wonders for me, and for lots of people
I know, but is not for everybody. My answer is to suggest you seek out relief
through religion. (Choose wisely, meaning investigate non-radical variants
that center on improving world conditions.) Religion is known to have many
benefits, including mental health benefits.

Good luck to you.

------
pmoriarty
Consider MDMA-assisted psychotherapy.

It has shown great promise in treating PTSD, even severe, treatment-resistant
PTSD.[1][2]

[1] - [https://maps.org/research/mdma](https://maps.org/research/mdma)

[2] - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA-
assisted_Psychotherapy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA-
assisted_Psychotherapy)

~~~
newnewpdro
Or a weekend of magic mushrooms in the woods...

------
m0zg
Watch Office Space, and learn the lessons from there. It's just a job. You
might actually be better at it if you don't give as much of a fuck - caring
too much tends to lead you to taking on too much work, and that can only end
in disappointment and burnout for everyone involved.

It's important to have some sort of a life outside of work, and to _prioritize
it_.

------
ramblerman
As most have suggested quitting without anything else in hand is indeed not a
good idea BUT that doesn't mean you should stay at your job.

You need routine, not a job per se.

So if you are financially secure you could consider going to school for a
year, and get a degree in something that interests you. It can be a nice
reset, while impacting your career and life for the positive.

------
gigatexal
“... two separate cases of sexual assault, and the passing of my mother.”

First of all I’m very sorry!!! I think that you could benefit a lot from a
professional to help you heal from this. If you are up to it perhaps pursuing
legal action to get justice might help.

When I lost my dad I got very numb and it was only a bunch of time and
counseling that helped me recognize that and reconnect.

------
albertTJames
Is it possible to ask to work part time? Get 1-2 more days off to focus on
health, personal projects, familly and friends.

------
sv1123
Wow. I don't even know what to say or what kind of advice to offer other than,
if you need a friend or somebody to talk to, I am here. Seriously. I've been
through trauma and I think I can empathize, although certainly have no idea
what you're going through. I am SO sorry.

------
sircastor
I think a lot of offered advice here is very good. Do you exercise with any
regularity? If not I would strongly suggest it. Exercise had a powerful effect
on the brain at well as the body and can help you regulate yourself. Also, be
sure to get some sunshine. Vitamin D is very important.

------
badrabbit
Second the comments about not quitting your job -- so long as your job does
not overwork you. My added advice would be to have goals and find something to
look forward to that you can hope to see through. Work on yourself as well, do
things unrelated to work or tech outside of work.

------
ssss11
I’m no expert but a few suggestions that have helped me in the past: a holiday
to clear the mind, work is not your identity you need some free time from it,
and it’s important to enjoy work so perhaps a more fun workplace or a change
if your boss gives you anxiety? Hope this helps

------
Damian_Z
Firstly, it's a very positive sign that you're reaching out. That is usually
the biggest hurdle. Getting professional help is the first critical step.
Connecting with someone who has been through this and come out the other side
(and there's thousands out there) is the second. With the greatest respect to
others here, I disagree that continuing to go to work is a must. Looking after
your health is the priority here, otherwise the ability to go to work might be
taken away due to the physical limitations that inevitably come with Burnout.
How do I know this? See below. Meanwhile, if you hit me up via email or
LinkedIn, Id be MORE than happy to set up a call. If my 5 years experience in
managing this proves to be of some value, then I'm happy to give up 30 mins of
my time. In the meantime, please take care.
[https://www.rebuildingburnout.com/about-
me](https://www.rebuildingburnout.com/about-me)

------
pvinis
I feel I need to disclaimer what I'm about to write so here goes.

Disclaimer: It's not my intention to offend anyone or brag or trivialize this.
This is me asking a question out of curiosity and concern for my wellbeing.

Ok so, everytime I read about someone having a burnout or taking 3 months off
to recover from burnout etc, I immediately think "oh here we go again, another
crybaby". I know that everyone is different and everyone has their limits and
that is ok. But I can't help but compare with myself and then I end up in the
same question:

"Are all these people just weak, quick to complain, taking advantage of an
employer, bad at managing their feelings and time OR am I just too hard on
myself?"

While reading the OP's text, I have had some of the things they had, not
everything. Reading other people's burnout stories sound familiar. I've had
big breakups, I've had long steaks of overwork with little return in the
expected results to be generated, I've had days where motivation was lacking
for anything, not just work, I've had days where the lack of sleep causes lack
of focus and motivation which causes more lack of sleep etc, and the list goes
on.

What I find myself doing is just powering through. It might take a week or a
month or three, but I end up fine or better than before. I don't know if that
means I am stronger or better OR just not as burnt out as these other people.
When talking with family and friends I have often said that what I want/need
is more free time from work. That way I can relax and feel less stressed, and
hopefully in due time work on some of my projects and ideas, yet so far I've
been doing a normal 40 hours/week job with extra times often. I have tried to
change my times to 4 days a week or 6 hours a day unsuccessfully so far. I
sometimes feel I'm wasting this time.

How do you actually know is you are burnt out? How do you know if you can
overcome it alone? How do I know if I'm not burnt out or if I'm strong enough
to overcome it or if I'm stupid enough to ignore the signs or if everyone else
is weak or if everyone else is doing the right thing?

That's all. I wish you best of luck and hope you feel better soon. Work is
always better when it can be something you're proud of, and excited to go to.
Again, I mean no disrespect to you or anyone else. This is my brain dumping
all my thoughts and concerns in the hopes that I might get some interesting
advice or food for thought. Thank you.

~~~
cynusx
If you can power through it then you've never been in a burnout situation.
Burnouts build up over months, if not years to the point you are no longer
able to function.

It's not that hard to avoid them if you remain aware of how your environment
impacts how you feel and don't just walk around ignoring an environment that
puts you in a constant negative state.

Anyway, I do agree that it's an overused term. Some people just need a
holiday, a change of job or a different romantic partner and they'll be fine
in a short amount of time.

------
jinahlee1234
Does your boss/supervisor have any idea what you've been going through?
Depending on the trust level between you guys, it may help "hint" your
situation. See if there is room to discuss minimizing hours/stress/duties or
even taking a short leave.

------
xupybd
Do what you can to find happiness again. Rest is important. Lower your stress
levels.

Talk to a professional before quitting your Job. HN is great but not able to
tell you what to do here. A therapist can help you come up with a plan. They
can help you evaluate if it's working.

------
brandon272
You mention you are in Canada. I am guessing your job comes with a group
benefits plan? Please take advantage of it. Benefits will typically range from
reimbursement for therapy sessions all the way to short and long term
disability coverage.

------
felipellrocha
All the comments here are amazing, but one extra thing to add is if you have a
good manager, work with that person to lighten your load. Having less to worry
about at work will go a long ways into making sure you are able to recover
more quickly.

------
janee
I've found great calm in doing long walks. Especially on the way down from a
good uphill hike when it's super early and there's noone else in the park.

For me it's sort of like forced meditation.

May better days be just around the corner for ya :)

------
viburnum
Read “Feeling Good” by John Burns, and be sure to do the exercises in the
book.

------
sedeki
You need a break from work and proper medical attention.

Go speak to a doctor about if they can help you get the right papers so you
can get an income and days off. That’s what the procedure is in Sweden.

------
drywater
> While on an insured mental health break for months

Keep your head up! 99,99% of this planet doesn't have mental health insurance.
I had no idea it even existed.

------
dsmurrell
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7La8-caCXpQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7La8-caCXpQ)

------
rabuse
Why does every single "Ask HN" get downvoted?

------
gjmacd
Dumb question: But have you taken a longish vacation? And I mean one that's
3-4 weeks or more that has nothing to do with work?

~~~
dajohnson89
OP is canadian but in USA, the normal amount of vacation time is 2 weeks per
year.

~~~
52-6F-62
It’s about the same in Canada. 2-4 weeks depending on your job, seniority, and
position if you’re in regular employment.

------
mewpmewp2
Pretty irrelevant, but why does OP post show as gray? Usually it is because of
downvoted, but this one is upvoted.

------
deboflo
Totally normal. Build something. Get those creative juices flowing again. Your
new career will choose you.

------
tapatio
1\. Exercise 2\. Eat healthy 3\. Reduce hours worked per day 4\. Spend time
with friends and family

------
mnemonicsloth
You're going to be okay.

You do have a huge amount of stress in your life. Plenty of people would break
down under half that. (Seriously, suppose it was one sexual assault and the
breakup. That is enough to fuck a lot of people up.)

I can't tell whether you already know this stuff. If so you can skip this
paragraph:

If I came into my therapist's office and told her I had your symptoms, she
would tell me that I had anxiety and depression from all the stress I was
carrying around. I know this because I've already done it. I didn't want to do
it because I didn't want to think of myself as crazy (mental illness has a lot
of stigma attached to it), so I resisted for a year or two. But eventually my
problems got serious enough that I couldn't deal with them any other way.
Waiting caused me a lot of trouble. I'm still pissed that I can't get those
years back.

I've never had PTSD, so I don't know what a therapist would say about your
symptoms. But I do know PTSD is treatable, as are anxiety and depression. The
treatments aren't as easy as taking a pill (though the option is there). They
work slowly, and they're process-oriented, so they discourage you from asking
_when do I get better?_ But the time does come when you feel normal again.

A few pieces of random advice:

\- Stop working until you get this sorted out. Mental health issues tend to
take away your ability to introspect. You could get worse without realizing
it, cause a lot of problems for your employer, maybe get fired and have a
black mark on your record.

\- You may not want to tell your employer why you're leaving. I don't know
what the culture is like in Toronto, but in the US people can get a little
strange about mental illness. Unless you get special mental health benefits or
something (and maybe even then) it's a good idea to just say "personal issues"
when they ask you why you're leaving.

\- You say you have a medical person. In the US medical people dispense drugs
and see you once every month or two. Therapists see you every week, and they
help you solve the majority of your problems. If it's an option, find a
therapist _that you like_. You may have to sit through a couple of duds. My
therapist is the primary reason I'm healthy today.

\- Understand that one possible endgame here is a breakdown where you suddenly
can't work or screw something up catastrophically (I've been there too :-).
Try to be graceful about it, but one way or another you should put everything
down so you can focus on getting better.

\- my email's in my profile if you want to talk.

------
say_it_as_it_is
Try vaping high cbd hemp flower daily after work for about two months. You can
mix it with thc flower to achieve a full spectrum entourage effect. Relax.
Listen to music. Let your mind wander and take you places.

Get off the amphetamines, if you're on any. Modafinil, Ritalin, whatever.

------
ankit_u_agrawal
Go on this 10 day vipassana retreat: [https://www.dhamma.org/en-
US/index](https://www.dhamma.org/en-US/index). It will immensely help you.
(its free including lodging and food for 10 days)

------
voisin
Read “The Body Keeps Score” and “Full Catastrophe Living”

------
dfraser992
My deepest sympathies - that is quite a lot to go through in just one year. I
have had my own battles with mental health issues, but never so concentrated
(just protracted). Like others, I really think you need to find a therapist
first. As for the modality, what immediately comes to mind is integrative [1].
CBT or Jungian would not be good options though, for various reasons.

A reputable therapist ought to offer a free first session (or half) to see how
you two get along and it gives them a sense of what you're struggling with. It
may take a few tries to find someone you click with (or a competent one), but
stay at it. The exact modality does not matter so much as the quality of the
relationship between client and therapist; Bowlby's attachment theory explains
this in more detail (e.g. secure attachment == good parenting).

I went through burnout a few years ago (quit the badly run by sociopaths
startup), went thru a good period (i.e. taking time off), got desperate for
work (bad idea, but couldn't focus on what I'd planned to (aka get out of
IT))), got a job, things were ok - and then went downhill again (the dead cat
bounce) due to various environmental factors and also not really addressing
some internal issues. So don't do what I did.

As for the job, you can always get another one (you're young enough). Again,
don't do what I did - I had a ton of responsibility in the startup job and so
put up with a lot of crap because a) I thought I was indispensable, b) all the
tech was my baby, etc. At the end of the day, I finally realized too late I
owned zero equity and the founders were deliberately exploiting me. Your
company sounds much better, but still, too much identification with "the job"
is endemic in IT and tends to lead to burnout.

And the PTSD worries me for some reason... just my intuition. So don't
procrastinate (like I did...) Good luck.

[1] [https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/therapy-
types/integrative...](https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/therapy-
types/integrative-therapy)

[edit] I see you have a psychiatrist - good, but you should do talk based
therapy also IMO - it may be my biases, but psychiatrists are only appropriate
for biological based issues. It is the difference in the training. A
stereotype perhaps, but when debugging software, do you immediately reach for
the soldering iron and start replacing chips?

------
greatatuin
I'm very sorry to hear about your experience.

I went through a rough patch recently with mental health too. I know how hard
it can be but I have come out the other side a much stronger person and a lot
clearer on what is important in life. Always hang in there, it gets better.

Everyone is different I know and I don't claim to be an expert but thought it
might be worth listing some of the big things that helped me and seems to help
a lot of others as well, just in case you find something:

\- Exercise like you've never exercised before. If you ever had dreams of
getting in shape or conquering a fitness challenge nothing motivated me more
than knowing I might feel a little bit better mentally for it afterwards.

\- Sleep. I got serious about making sure I got a good night sleep which was
extremely hard at times. All the sleep hygiene tips are worth learning. Not
getting too hot at night, blocking out all light, ear plugs, sleep
meditations, stretching before bed, reading something calm and positive before
bed, writing everything on your mind down so you can let it go etc etc

\- Every day writing down 3 things I'm grateful for (even small things like a
warm cup of tea), 1 happy thing that happened in the last 24 hours and 1 thing
I'm looking forward to. There's something to all the gratitude diary stuff.

\- Meditation and mindfulness were often the best way to get a break from it.
Learning these skills is one of the best things I've ever done.

\- Controlled breathing gave me some control of my nervous system. To calm
things down and slow my thoughts (especially in the middle of the night) I
personally found the 4-7-8 breathing technique worked well for me if done
properly but there's lot of others taught in yoga etc as well.

\- Socialise and talk to people a lot, even if you don't feel like it.

\- Help others. It is the right thing to do and it feels good and takes the
focus off you.

\- Learn new things, take on new challenges, things that you have no
expectations about.

\- Possibly the hardest but best lesson I learnt of all though was not to buy
into the negative thoughts my brain was having. Realising that I'm only
thinking that way because of the state my brain is in and that the state it is
in today isn't necessarily the state it will be in tomorrow, next week or next
month. The world is a great and amazing place. If it doesn't seem that way
right now it's just because of the state I'm in now but that state will change
and when it does change the world does indeed seem great and amazing again.

I also tend to agree with the advice of staying in your job. For me there was
an element of not being able to deal with too much but at the same time,
running from all responsibility and work wasn't the answer either so it was a
balance to be found until I could get back to full capacity. Taking on as much
responsibility as I could handle at each step helped to improve my self worth
and helped a lot too. But that's just me so I hope you find what is best for
you.

Hang in there and best of luck to you!

------
zackmorris
First of all, good job on taking a mental health break. I was burned out at
this time last year and should have asked for a sabbatical, but I thought I
could tough it out. I ended up having a falling out with my work and we parted
ways. A few thoughts off the top of my head:

* Do a health assessment, maybe a physical/checkup, and address any digestive or sleep issues. I had undiagnosed sleep apnea for 10-20 years which lead to severe fatigue, then acquired IBS from (I think) a meat deficiency and lack of fiber while bodybuilding, similar to what vegetarians get after 3 years if they don't meticulously watch their nutrition. I thought it was leaky gut from a sensitivity to legumes and nightshades (Dr. Gundry has info about this) but in my case, I think it was that I had substituted legumes for meat so had worn through my gut lining and also wasn’t making serotonin from tryptophan in the gut. Anyway, I went heavy on the meat and took some prenatal vitamins for a week and my digestion and mood improved within a matter of days. It was honestly a miracle.

* If your physical health is fine, start working on your mental health. I just found out a few days ago that I probably have ADHD, after reading this article on HN [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22129777](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22129777) about it. I also discovered that I have task anxiety felt as a pain between my chest and stomach when I need to do something I’m wary of (I thought I only had depression). Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) has helped, mainly that I acknowledge negative thoughts as they come in and then let them pass, similar to with meditation. And I use The Secret/Manifestation to take negative thoughts like “I so don’t want to help them fix their website” with “thank creation that another opportunity fell in my lap, even though I can only save the lead right now until I’m feeling stronger”.

* My guess is that you have too much emotional baggage in your head that hasn’t been garbage collected. It will take you a period of time proportional to however long something was scribbling the hard drive in your head to recover from it. In my case, I normally do PHP and mobile development, but learned Java and Ruby for projects within 6 months that filled my head with anti-patterns that I had long ago stopped using. So I was mainly fixing mistakes in the code which I never would have made, which severely taxed my motivation. I was also on call at night 1 week out of every 3 so wasn’t dreaming. So I got so discombobulated that I was reverse engineering tasks all the way to their beginning and realizing that the entire project would have to be rewritten to make any changes. That annoyed the client and dropped my productivity to 10%. I’ve also been through PTSD due to the death of a friend 15 years ago that I felt responsible for, so slipped back into very dark and negative thought patterns of the whole world being against me. Which I realize now is what happens when someone has doubts about or loses their faith - what we might call a midlife crisis.

* If decluttering your mind through meditation and perhaps counseling feels too overwhelming right now, you can start with your immediate surroundings. I just spent the last few weeks cleaning my home office and shredding paperwork from 15 years ago. I had worked through burnout to depression 6 months ago due to my girlfriend having me do a bunch of home improvement projects around the house which got me over my starting friction. But cleaning my surroundings got me from depression to anxiety as my todo list shrank enough that I could see the forest for the trees. My task anxiety was so crippling that I was going days between getting even one thing done. But I discovered that by separating the thinking from the doing by building my todo list during one time period and working through it during another time period, I was able to act as my own boss. That let me visualize where I needed to be long term and then get into the zone while tasking, because it’s easier for me to do what other people tell me. While burned out, we often lose our ability to self-start.

* I don’t really have a fifth point, so a here’s a bunch grouped together: forgive yourself, be patient with yourself in your recovery, know that you are not alone (literally millions of people in the US alone struggle with burnout and depression), try to have as many emotional free expression tasks in your life as analytical so that you can do something constructive instead of procrastinate, talk to others who are struggling like yourself even if it’s just online forums and chat rooms.

I would say that I am pretty much back to normal, but unfortunately I haven’t
really programmed in months. I am really, really struggling with the idea of
going back to work. I need to, but feel uncomfortable taking on a full time
job right now. I’ve been looking at freelancing, but unfortunately
freelancer.com and upwork.com are completely saturated with 10-25 (as many as
85!) coder applications submitted for every contract I’m interested in. I’m
trying the gig economy, but it’s kind of the off-season right now where I live
so am only making $50-75 here and there. I’m looking into non-programming work
that doesn’t emphasize problem solving as much - perhaps CAD or copywriting.
I’m eager to work and full of energy and ideas, I just.. can’t write code..
right now. I’m hoping to get my blog back up and write some in-depth articles
about the logistical side of programming and
ADHD/PTSD/burnout/depression/anxiety, about solutions for when technical
hurdles are not the problem. I’m up for anything, if anyone is in the same
boat or needs help writing/planning/designing something.

~~~
Damian_Z
This is excellent advice, especially the sleep apnea. Wishing the best of
health & happiness.

------
i386
Go on a very very long vacation!

------
michael-ax
Hi young man, this is not burnout. You seem to have reached the point where
your outer ideas of life no longer serve the organic inner ideas of life per
se, and so you have been creating all sort of pain around yourself in order to
notice that the conflict you've created can no longer be maintained.

Go back some years to where you last re-wrote your self-definition and take
out anything that's not real. This kind of struggle is one where you are going
to have to extricate yourself from your thoughts and ideas, otherwise known as
illusions, about life, and become an actual self-reliant/psychological adult
.. which is supposed to happen at this stage/age.

If you can manage to keep your work connection as a means of everyday
grounding, by all means do that while you mourn the end of childhood.

Anyhow, you wrote in the comments: Now that it's done, I feel like I can relax
a bit and also accept that things can go poorly and it doesn't have to be
devastating.

And that's the truth. I would underline it. Remember it while your emotions
suggest that you should feel like shit. Then it will pass. Its not fair, its
not easy, but adulthood is worth it.

~~~
epanchin
Young _man_?

