
Gut Bacteria From Thin Humans Can Slim Mice Down - kenjackson
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/06/health/gut-bacteria-from-thin-humans-can-slim-mice-down.html?src=me&ref=general&_r=0
======
danielharan
If I were morbidly obese I'd rather have an enema with a thin, healthy
person's feces than have a surgeon cut me up and put a band around my stomach
to reduce the amount I can eat.

Am I the one that's weird? Or is it the doctors who see the fecal transplant
as a last-ditch effort only _after_ surgery?

~~~
jamesli
It is exaggeration "by transplanting feces from thin people". It is for eye-
catching. I believe scientists will strive to identify the bacterium or
bacteria, grow and purify them in an emotionally-acceptable environment. The
bacteria will be transplanted, mostly with some supplement for certain
medicine purposes, not the feces.

~~~
danielharan
There are already people doing that right now. No exaggeration. Google "DIY
fecal" and it will auto-complete with "transplant".

------
Aqueous
'"“I’m very excited about this,” he added, saying the next step will be to try
using gut bacteria to treat obesity by transplanting feces from thin people.

“I have little doubt that that will be the next thing that happens,” Dr.
Fischbach said.

But Dr. Flier said it was far too soon for that.'

I agree. It is far too soon - wait until you've named it something other than
'fecal transplant.' It's a branding issue.

Exciting news, though. I think our society uses shame as a motivator way too
much. We judge each other far too easily. Thin people take the fact that they
are thin for granted, and then accuse fat people of being lazy.

As someone who gained a bit of weight recently in the past two years
inexplicably and suddenly, having been thin before, with no change in diet or
exercise, I wonder how much of this is actually in our direct control, and
about the quality of the simple answers we give to shame people into
exercising or dieting.

~~~
Pxtl
I've got a zillion digestive problems running in my family so I'm actually
super-excited by the fecal transplant tech. If I can steal your healthy bowel,
I don't care if the idea's a little icky.

> wonder how much of this is actually in our direct control, and about the
> quality of the simple answers we give to shame people into exercising or
> dieting.

There's a contingent of people who find this attitude morally offensive. They
worked hard for their health and are disgusted by those who want an easy
way... and also people who _didn 't_ work hard to stay thin and are thin
anyways like the self-congratulatory notion that they're doing something
right.

Every time a new weight-loss tech appears you get people ranting about diet
and excersize and the offensive nature of this "shortcut".

I'm reminded how Socrates was offended by the growth of _writing_ because it
was somehow morally inferior to memorization.

~~~
oblique63
> _There 's a contingent of people who find this attitude morally offensive.
> They worked hard for their health and are disgusted by those who want an
> easy way... and also people who didn't work hard to stay thin and are thin
> anyways like the self-congratulatory notion that they're doing something
> right._

From my own experience, all the people that I _know for sure_ 'worked hard' to
achieve their fitness levels, are always the first to be the most
understanding about the whole ordeal. Even the strong personality types. The
vibe is always along the lines of: "yes, it can be incredibly difficult, and
there are many paths to the same destination, but look at me -- it's
possible!". I haven't seen many of of these people 'disgusted' at others who
want an easier way, if anything they can probably sympathize cause they were
probably there themselves at one point.

So that leaves the "didn't work hard" camp, and the "disgusted by an easy way
out" bunch... Now, I'm not gonna draw any conclusions cause this is all
anecdotal, and perhaps some people don't like to flaunt their successes or use
them to inspire others, but it is tempting to make the correlation.

------
StacyC
The Paleo Diet (or something similar) has also worked well for many people in
losing weight and just feeling better overall. The culprit seems to be less
about calories and exercise than about eliminating carbs, sugar and processed
foods.

There is quite a lot of anecdotal evidence to support this, and I can just add
that my wife and I started on it nine weeks ago and we have never felt better.
I even dropped a few pounds although I didn't really need to. We also
supplement with probiotics to ensure that we maintain good levels of healthy
bacteria in the gut, which is where much of our immune system functions.

~~~
yeahsure
I'm currently doing a Keto diet (very similar to Paleo) and -at least for me-
this is definitely the case. I'm addicted to carbs. I cut carbs and I
immediately start losing weight and forget about constant hunger. Whenever I
eat anything with carbs, my weight loss stalls and I start having cravings
again, all the time.

Edit: Oh, and by the way, I've lost 40 lbs since I started :-)

------
jokull
For those interested in recent research focusing on the interplay between
bacteria and our immune systems, I recommend An Epidemic of Absence by Moises
Velasquez-Manoff.

Podcast introduction from Chris Kresser: [http://chriskresser.com/what-are-
the-hidden-costs-of-modern-...](http://chriskresser.com/what-are-the-hidden-
costs-of-modern-hygiene)

Amazon link:
[http://www.amazon.com/dp/1439199388?tag=chrikres-20&link_cod...](http://www.amazon.com/dp/1439199388?tag=chrikres-20&link_code=as3&creative=373489&camp=211189)

~~~
Luc
Hard to tell at a glance whether this "Hygiene Hypothesis" is legitimate
science, or wishful thinking on the part of the journalist who wrote the book.
I'm leaning towards being rather sceptical.

~~~
graeme
You could do the absolute minimum of due diligence and check if there is a
Wikipedia article:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis)

It's been extensively studied by epidemiologists and immunologists. There is
some experimental evidence to support the theory.

~~~
Luc
Oh, big whoop, some experimental evidence, huh! There's a Wikipedia article
about the subject, so that blesses the contents of this book now, does it?

~~~
jokull
The premise, the logic stands on its own. We coevolve with other organisms and
bacteria, not in a vacuum. So wether there is hard evidence for this or that,
regardless it’s an interesting field of study right now and many are looking
into it. Sometimes before you have evidence, you need a hypothesis.

------
brentm
A similar concept is touched upon here: How Fecal Transplants Work -
[http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/human-biology/fecal-
tr...](http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/human-biology/fecal-
transplant.htm)

------
grannyg00se
" the part of the study that most surprised other experts was an experiment
indicating that, with the right diet, it might be possible to change the
bacteria in a fat person’s gut so that they promote leanness rather than
obesity. "

Right. So back to the same common sense advice. It would seem wise to simply
fix your diet first, maybe throw in a little exercise, and then see what
happens. That is, before trying things like fecal transplants.

~~~
AJ007
This story really doesn't belong on HN, but I digress since it relates to a
health issue I've seen a lot of software developers experience,

Making the assumption that the average obese person eat diets largely
consisting of processed food (which though is not always high glycemic index
is almost always accompanied by something which is), someone who is eating a
diet of unprocessed foods should have a greater diversity in their gut
bacteria.

One thing I have not seen mentioned is the use of anti-biotic medicine and gut
bacteria. I now know of multiple friends who have undergone a regimen of heavy
anti-biotic medicine, only to have digestive problems for anywhere from 6
months to well over a year and beyond.

~~~
jared314
> undergone a regimen of heavy anti-biotic medicine, only to have digestive
> problems

They have, recently, started to understand how that happens[1][2].

[1]
[http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/natu...](http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature12503.html)

[2]
[http://med.stanford.edu/ism/2013/september/sonnenburg.html](http://med.stanford.edu/ism/2013/september/sonnenburg.html)

------
trekky1700
Are we going to see an emerging trend with thin college students donating gut
bacteria instead of the more traditional paid donations?

------
jvh23
Poor fat twin.

------
mason240
I can't wait to start hearing this excuse.

~~~
aaronblohowiak
Is your comment furthering the intellectual discourse that makes HN different
from other news sites?

