
Turkey tries to have a German comedian locked up–in Germany - doener
http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21696903-german-satire-and-turkeys-thin-skinned-president-turkey-tries-have-german-comedian-locked
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dukoid
It's quite sad that we still have "Lèse-majesté" and blasphemy laws in Germany
in the 21st century :(

This case has created quite a media hype in Germany though, with comedians
trying to top each other in violating this law now -- not sure if that's what
Erdogan intended... "Nichtlustig" for example:
[https://www.facebook.com/NICHTLUSTIG/photos/a.186737799993.1...](https://www.facebook.com/NICHTLUSTIG/photos/a.186737799993.155561.131582549993/10154258375649994/?type=1&theater)

~~~
Mithaldu
The other artists are no violating the law though. In making fun of Erdogan
trying to act against Böhmermann they are engaging in satire, criticism by
exaggeration, which is wholly different and completely legal.

~~~
dukoid
Well maybe they don't go exactly that far, although the Nichtlustig drawing
seems to be at a similar level. Dieter Hallervorden calls him a terrorist (ok,
that's hardly an insult given his treatment of the Kurds), Sonneborn "the
crazy guy from the Bosporus" (and he is looking forward to see the
Böhmermann's specific allegations investigated in detail by the German justice
system). Mathias Döpfner (a comedian in a very special sense) writes "Ich
möchte mich, Herr Böhmermann, vorsichtshalber allen Ihren Formulierungen und
Schmähungen inhaltlich voll und ganz anschließen und sie mir in jeder
juristischen Form zu eigen machen" (not sure how to translate this
correctly.... "I fully agree and with all your insults and I would like to
make them my own words in a judicial sense")

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Mithaldu
tl;dr: That article is severely misrepresenting various realities.

German here:

The dude didn't do satire. He straight-up went on a tirade of insults against
Erdogan in a way that contained literally zero satire (i.e. criticism by
exaggeration), and was found funny by approximately nobody.

He even declared he knew that what he was doing is illegal but he isn't
actually doing it and only reading the "poem" as an "example".

It is obvious to basically everyone here that what he did was roughly
equivalent to saying:

"I know it is illegal to call for all people with black skin to be murdered,
for example with a speech that would roughly go like this: <insert 5 minutes
of hate speech calling for the aforementioned> But what i did is different,
see, since this is only an _example_!"

There are very few germans who're actually opposed to having Böhmermann be hit
with the full legal force, since:

Our very first law states that the human dignity shall be inviolable. This
means insulting someone without actually engaging in satire can be countered
with a law suit, usually punishable with fines. Insulting a high-ranking
foreigner representing their nation elevates the punishment to possibly a few
years of jail, since suddenly that person is playing with the fate of the rest
of Germany while also violating a person's dignity.

~~~
dukoid
Well I am German too, and I am quite opposed. I think Böhmermann did a good
job of creating a public discussion about our ancient Lèse-majesté law that
should be finally abolished (together with similar blasphemy laws that somehow
survived to this day). Also, Erdogan basically called for this by his
ridiculous reaction to the Extra3 video.

P.S. Also, what exactly is the difference between the content of the article
and your statement except for your added sentiment?

~~~
Mithaldu
I never said there aren't people who do oppose it. :)

As for that law: Böhmermann could still be sued without it, just not have to
worry about a jail sentence. And frankly, i prefer that over having Erdogan
express his anger towards Germany differently, which is the whole reason this
law exists.

~~~
AnimalMuppet
If Erdogan is going to express his anger towards Germany in any way beyond a
strongly worded protest, it will backfire. Let him have his hissy fit and
ignore him.

~~~
Mithaldu
Do you think it is fair and just that only others should suffer the
consequences of Böhmermann's inability to control himself?

~~~
j-pb
Yes. Why should Germany suffer for Erdogan's inability to control himself?

~~~
Mithaldu
Holy shit, what a dishonest argument.

If you disagree with the premise of my question and think i asked the same
question, then it's fine for you to state that and have a dialogue on that
point.

However pretending to answer my question, yet actually answering a completely
different question is just very dishonest.

~~~
j-pb
You just don't want to admit that you side with the position that is backed by
authority.

If Erdogan hadn't acted like a huge dick there wouldn't have been a need to
insult him.

So why should Germany censor itself just because Erdogan is a whiny little
cunt?

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gkya
Recently, on a related thread, I said "Erdogan playing to the Turkish crowd,
he knows that he's not going to get that guy cencored or anything in Germany",
sort of (1). Now if he succeeds at getting him processed, I'll indeed be very
surprised, and sad for Germany. I hope Germans won't let such a humiliating
thing happen.

(1)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11396532](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11396532)

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tryitnow
German comedian?

Is that the punchline?

~~~
dukoid
Did you know the Germans tried to develop a weaponized super-joke in WWII that
would make enemy soldiers laugh to dead?

~~~
dukoid
p.s. Here is the corresponding documentary:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdWGlJrG6sQ&list=RDsdWGlJrG6...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdWGlJrG6sQ&list=RDsdWGlJrG6sQ#t=329)

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StanislavPetrov
It's sad that the importance of free speech was understood by Socrates and
Plato 2,400 years ago, but is still not grasped by so-called "free societies"
like Germany.

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cpncrunch
Does Turkey realise they have basically no hope of joining the EU now? (Not
just because of this incident, but all the similar incidents over recent
years).

~~~
tim333
Well, if they voted out Erdogan that would help.

~~~
cpncrunch
It wasn't much better before him.

