
Louis C.K.: I won't let my kids have cell phones - kunai
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57603820-71/louis-c.k.-why-i-wont-let-my-kids-have-cell-phones/
======
Spittie
I'm not a parent. I'm not old enough to have lived in an age when phones
weren't common (19 years old).

And I totally agree with him. I didn't have myself my first phone until I was
14 years old (with some exceptions, like when going on school trips), and I
can't thanks my parents enough for this.

I agree that smartphones can be really useful. You have infinite knowledge in
your hand when you have a smartphone and a connection to internet.

But, you can also start depending on it. I know several people that can't
leave their smartphones alone for more than 5 minutes, even when involved in
social events. And it's not to access knowledge, it's either to chat with
someone else, or check the latest "meme" over facebook.

Yes, it's "having fun", but when you're not able to live the moment, and have
to access Facebook/Whatsapp every 5 minutes, it's called dependence.

Hopefully, Louis's child will not get into it. Thanks to their dad, they'll
learn to enjoy real life, to enjoy the moment. And when they'll get their
first smartphone, they'll be to busy enjoying their live to use it everytime.

~~~
goblinfoblin
I'm a bit older than you (6 years) and had a cell phone since I was in (I
think) middle school. My phone was primarily for staying in contact with my
mother because I was out of the house a large amount of the time, you don't
need a smartphone for this.

At this time I think it probably would suck to be older than 13 and not have a
phone, everyone you know is going to have one and that is going to be how they
communicate with their friends if you don't have one you will get left out of
the loop.

It is a parents choice but it might hurt children socially, on the other hand
there were a few outliers in my high school who spent every minute of class on
their phone (before smartphones were big) but this could be solved with
prepaid phones.

------
Klinky
When did Louis C.K. become the guru of the internet, and when did parents
decide they should accept parenting advice from a comic who's act is extremely
child unfriendly?

Not only do I think a child not having a cellphone(even just a basic one) is a
security risk, but I'd also think it could lead to less of a social life, not
more of one. Kids not fitting into their peer group and being ostracized or
picked on due to a lack of a phone/smartphone probably doesn't seem like a big
deal to the 20, 30, or 40-something parent. Probably because that 20,30, or
40-something parent has forgotten what it was like to be a 7th grader. It also
breeds feelings of resentment, and it portrays to the child a beautiful
example of hypocrisy, as the parental unit continues to use the so-called
"socially destructive" devices.

If you are not planning on giving your child a cellphone because you're afraid
of it's destructive effect on their ability to communicate with other human
beings, then what more are you doing to encourage social growth in your child?
Not giving your kid a cellphone is a passive action, not a proactive action.

~~~
kunai
A child will not get shot or kidnapped for not having a cell phone, and those
who will ostracize your child because of the technology they _don 't_ have
don't deserve to be your kid's friend anyhow. One could say that there is an
ostensible social and security risk in not having a cell phone compared to if
one _didn 't_ have a cell phone, but the risk really is very low, and if that
level of risk disturbs you, an el-cheapo prepaid phone with no minutes on it
(just 911) will suffice. I think people forget that we lived not even as early
as 5 years ago where smartphones were not considered a necessity. Kids did
fine with basic or no cell phones at all.

And before you pull the "Did you forget 7th grade" argument, I'm in high
school. I only own an unactivated iPhone for development and testing, and
really never call anyone.

~~~
jonahx
> and those who will ostracize your child because of the technology they don't
> have don't deserve to be your kid's friend anyhow.

yeah, but what if they're really cool and good-looking?

~~~
Klinky
It does not have to be actual kids picking on another child, but the child can
feel excluded. When I grew up my mom chronically destroyed the TVs we had
because of content she didn't approve of. Sometimes we would be without a TV
for years. Kids reactions to me not seeing a show because I didn't have a TV
just made me feel like more of an outsider.

------
hooande
I find it hard to disagree with Louis on this one. Overstimulation is a thing,
and we live in a culture where the common case is for a room full of people to
be staring at hunks of plastic instead of talking to one another. Let's be
honest, given cellphones children are most likely to cyberbully, sext and
drastically increase the intensity of the social feedback loop that is
adolescence.

Internet access in any form factor can be a gateway to all of the world's
knowledge, but the majority of people don't use 4G connections for high minded
purposes. I personally have a hard time coming up with a case where an
internet connected cell phone is absolutely necessary for anything. In my
experience I've usually been able to wait until I get home (with the exception
of looking up lost directions).

All of that being said, I don't think cellphones will bring about the end of
childhood. "If everybody else is doing it..." isn't the worst argument when it
comes to teenaged children, especially for larger values of "everyone else".
If cellphones are truly harmful to child development then we're all screwed
anyway. The overwhelming majority of teenagers have phones now... what's the
point of one person teaching their kids how to communicate the old fashioned
way if everybody else in the world is glued to a small screen?

Like everything else that children will be exposed to, cellphones are a matter
of self control. It seems like it would be better to have long two way
conversations with children about how to socialize properly and how they can
be better than their tech-addicted friends. It's possible that forbidding the
phone is a parenting easy out. It could take more time and effort to raise
children who can resist the siren call of facebook updates.

We shouldn't confuse nostalgia for strong values. There has to be a balance
between standing up for what we believe in as parents and giving children an
experience that's consistent with the century that they were born in.

------
rodly
I don't think his argument makes a ton of sense. Children still interact
through school, recess, sports, etc. Yes, they might post something hateful on
Facebook or text something insulting to a friend but they still get to see the
effects of their actions by comments. They still have to answer for their
words the next day or right in the comment thread. No child wants to be
excluded and will learn to play nice eventually. Phones can probably be
related to board games or cards of the years past. Children have always found
ways to keep to themselves when they're bored.

~~~
ahoge
> _Phones can probably be related to board games or cards of the years past._

Except that phones are pretty much the opposite of that. Thanks to the magic
of today's phones you won't have to deal with those boring people who happen
to be in the same room as you.

~~~
lkbm
When I was a kid, I always brought a book with me when I went places. Portable
entertainment is not new. Occasionally I'd bring a deck of cards and play
solitaire if I anticipated being somewhere conducive to that.

Our tendency to blame age-old problems on modern scapegoats usually reaffirms
our biases, but less often is upheld by the data.

------
s_q_b
I have a rock in my pocket that has access to all of the world's knowledge.
Why would anyone deprive another human being of that?

~~~
psbp
Because it's also a distraction rock that excuses you from the vestiges of
normal human communication.

~~~
muzz
Hopefully the owners of these rocks have more self control than that. Maybe
his point is that children aren't capable of that kind of self-control, but
adults should be.

~~~
psbp
Have you been in public? I don't get the sense that most adults around me are
trying to explore all of the world's knowledge.

------
vectorpush
Why don't we just teach children how to practice moderation?

Unless as a punishment, I think it makes more sense to simply guide them as to
when phone use is appropriate or excessive and make sure to be stern with
those standards. This is not a new problem, it's pretty similar to the
generation before us dealing with kids who stayed in all day playing video
games. Sure, the kid will do whatever they want once they're out of your
sight, but at the end of the day they'll insert your lessons into the category
of "behaviors that adults expect me to embrace" and the individual child will
react accordingly.

------
rabino
Related: this is a great essay on the topic.

[http://m.chronicle.com/article/The-End-of-
Solitude/3708](http://m.chronicle.com/article/The-End-of-Solitude/3708)

------
leephillips
This is a smart guy.

~~~
vladimirralev
People are adapting to texting and emails very quickly, especially the new
generation. It's not true that you are somehow less responsible for what you
write in a text message these days. In fact I think the only reason for
somebody to believe otherwise is that at least you have it now on record as
opposed to hearing nothing or rumors who said what when.

~~~
psbp
I think he's arguing against the excuse for avoiding healthy interaction
rather than the medium of communication. If text messaging provoked us to be
more earnest and empathetic, then it wouldn't be considered as much of a
problem.

~~~
vladimirralev
I understand that. But I am arguing that people are not less empathetic.
People are the same. The expressive power of the text message is worse, but
this is being fixed very quickly. If you count community-ranked reputation-
based systems (such as say HN) it will be far superior to the so called
"healthy interaction" in terms of efficiency and trust. Then there is video
and audio communication. Perfectly viable to run 100 million dollar businesses
and relationships. It's really not that bad.

------
mmagin
I'm kind of glad I didn't have a cell phone until I was 23. That's right
around the point they became really mainstream, not just for the business
types or the heavy telephone users. When you could get crazy replacement phone
cases for your Nokia in Chinatown with trademark-infringing graphics on them.

But I digress. It definitely feels like most people inherently tend toward
having difficulty moderating their use of any technology that has a tight
reward feedback loop.

I think the interesting question here is whether giving kids a mobile phone
enhances their psychological 'immune system' as an adult, or whether it just
instills these patterns of almost-addictive mobile phone use earlier on at an
age when it's more important to be learning basic facts, developing critical
thinking skills, and developing creative ability.

------
shn
Resistance is futile. (unfortunately)

~~~
rll
I dunno, I am 44 and have never had a cell phone nor do I see the need for
one. It's not that hard to resist.

