
Your Friendly Neighborhood Drug Dealer - pyduan
http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/04/your-friendly-neighborhood-drug-dealer/360560/
======
beat
"If you get jammed up, you can become a convicted felon and that damns you to
do it for the rest of your life, because you won’t get anything but a $7.50 an
hour job—if that. You give somebody a felony record for life, what did you
accomplish? You’ve just created a lower-class idiot that has to commit more
crimes to survive.”

That's the problem right there. We can spend tens, hundreds of thousands of
dollars incarcerating a simple marijuana dealer, and then remove most of them
from the chance of ever having a productive life.

There are exceptions. I have an old friend who spent a few years in prison for
LSD traffic back in college. He's one of the smartest people I ever met.
Eventually he got out, finished his PhD in chemistry, and now is the co-
founder of a startup doing new chemotherapy drugs. But like I said, one of the
smartest people I've ever met.

~~~
Symmetry
And the same conviction that means regular employers not trust the person mean
that potential partners in crime know he's actually a criminal and therefore
more trustworthy for their purposes.

~~~
collyw
"Criminal" as in the label. Was there not a statistic recently that the
average American commits 3 felonies every day? Being a criminal just means you
got caught.

~~~
jrockway
That's a quip, not a statistic.

------
JPKab
This is a nice take on the reality of the middle to upper middle class drug
economy.

It's not all episodes of the Wire. If you're picking up ecstasy or high-grade
cannabis, chances are you're doing it like this.

I have to admit that I miss MDMA. I haven't touched the stuff in over 10
years, but it was awesome to use once a year or so. I'm pretty thoroughly
convinced that I overcame some issues with trusting people and forming human
connections as an accidental side effect of wanting to have a good time.

~~~
cnp
I've personally seen MDMA fix two marriages, with one session each. Its divine
stuff. I'm very happy that new studies have been completed or are being
planned to further explore the psychotherapeutical side of the drug.

But aside from that, I agree. It's the best. No hangover (if it's pure), short
duration, music sounds amazing, an amplified sense of intellectual focus and
compassion, and good times with friends. You can't ask for anything more from
an intoxicant. Its the best.

~~~
WarDekar
No hangover? Except for, let's see, a short list:

Severely depleted serotonin levels, causing irritability and possibly
depression

Loss of focus, concentration, and attention (good luck programming competently
the day after)

Bruxism (jaw clenching/grinding)

~~~
cnp
Hangovers tend to occur when you've had MDMA mixed with one of the ever-more-
frequent mixers such as methamphetamine, cocaine or even MDA, which actually
targets dopamine receptors far more prominently than the serotonin and knock
you out for days. Pressed pills are usually the culprit, and I would avoid
them unless you know exactly where they're coming from.

From a wide array of experience, pure MDMA (in recommended doses, meaning
200mg or less) produces less of a hangover than two beers, with a very real
"afterglow" which lasts for days after. Excellent focus and concentration
included.

This is a good read: [http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/pure-
ecstasy-...](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/pure-ecstasy-can-
be-safe-for-adults-health-official-says-1.1229517)

~~~
WarDekar
From your own article:

"The drug's letdown can include feelings of confusion, irritability, anxiety,
paranoia and depression, and people may experience memory loss or sleep
problems, jaundice or liver damage."

And:

"Dr. John Halpern, a Harvard Medical School assistant professor who led the
research, said pure MDMA can change core body temperature, heart rate and
blood pressure in the short-term, and decrease immune resistance for a few
days."

Sounds like a hangover to me:

"2a : disagreeable physical effects following heavy consumption of alcohol or
the use of drugs" [http://www.merriam-
webster.com/dictionary/hangover](http://www.merriam-
webster.com/dictionary/hangover)

I'm not saying MDMA is terrible for you, but it certainly does cause hangover
effects (and of course, this will vary by person).

~~~
berberous
It definitely varies by person. I know people who say they consistently get an
afterglow and feel even better the next day, whereas others consistently feel
the serotonin deficiency and can feel a bit depressed. The jaw clenching seems
to be more universal.

~~~
thatswrong0
There are also supplements that help prevent the negative side effects plus
protect against some of the toxicity.. magnesium + gum for the jaw clenching,
Vitamin C [1][2] + ALA [3] + Vitamin E [4] + others for antioxidants and
preventing neurotoxicity and hepatoxicity.

1:
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15212815](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15212815)
2:
[http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/1098-2396%2820010...](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/1098-2396%28200104%2940:1%3C55::AID-
SYN1026%3E3.0.CO;2-O/abstract) 3:
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10619665](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10619665)
4:
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11931860](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11931860)

------
throwaway13qf85
I found this sentence interesting -

    
    
      I surmised that Viktor serves a large segment of the East
      Coast and personally takes in $24,000 to $32,000 per month
      after all his other costs are covered.
    

Let's say he takes in an average of $30,000 per month. Does $360,000 annually
sound like quite a small amount of money for running a highly illegal business
that serves a large chunk of the East Coast?

Small-to-medium sized business owners, Wall Street traders, quants and very
good engineers make that much money with none of the associated risk.

~~~
gedrap
>>> Small-to-medium sized business owners, Wall Street traders, quants and
very good engineers make that much money with none of the associated risk.

Of course it's not a lot. The corner boys are earning less than McDonald's
burger flippers.

But you comment makes it sounds as if a dealer one day can say "screw it, I
will be a quant". It's not a lot but it's the best he can get.

~~~
throwaway13qf85
We're not talking about the corner boys - I've read Freakonomics too, I know
they are earning next to nothing. We're talking about someone running a large
scale distribution operation supplying a huge metropolitan region in the US
with goods that are in short supply and high demand.

I guess I thought that the guys at the top would be earning more. It's a lot
of money, but it's not private jets and weekends in Aspen kind of money.

~~~
aidos
Just because he's serving a large segment of the coast, doesn't mean it's
exclusive. I've known of people serving larger numbers than mentioned in the
article, but they're one of 100s in the city. On any given weekend in London
huge numbers of drugs are purchased and consumed. A single supplier is a small
part of that.

------
mabbo
It's become obvious that laws can't stop drugs. Imagine a world where the
level of convenience described here was normal, but without the bullshit.

No more money wasted on police trying to stop it. No sales to minors (at
least, no more than cigarettes and alcohol have now). Taxes on income by drugs
dealers (Colorado is showing a hell of a windfall). Reliability and safety in
quality, so that you get exactly what you expect.

We might even get there soon.

~~~
Jun8
"No sales to minors"

If law enforcement cannot stop drug sale en masse, how do you propose that
sale to minors will be prevented? The analogy with cigarettes and alcohol is
not very apt: a lot of chain stores sell these (although some are pulling out:
[http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2014/02/05/cvs-
to-...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2014/02/05/cvs-to-stop-
selling-tobacco-sacrificing-2-billion-in-sales-for-public-health-and-future-
growth/)). It's clear that such outlets will not be open to drugs like heroin
or MDMA.

~~~
damon_c
When I was a kid, it was much easier to get illegal drugs than alcohol. I
assumed this was because one of them was only available to those over 21.

~~~
saraid216
That's basically correct, with a bit more nuance.

There's no profit in selling alcohol to kids. Not only does the law come down
on you if you get caught, but they can't provide enough demand to make it
worth the risk. Plus, a chunk of your clientele will get antsy about it.

Illegal stuff, on the other hand, already has fully-operational structure
measuring risk versus reward. The law is going to come down equally hard, so
there's no increased risk, just more customers. Plus, the clients who find out
are already incentivized to keep quiet.

tl;dr, prohibiting something to a minority is ridiculously more effective than
prohibiting something to a larger group.

------
badman_ting
See, I've always wanted someone like this, but never found it. I've always
found people that sell one thing only (cannabis), or maybe a couple, but not
the "drug supermarket". I mean, it makes sense as the article points out, if
you're going to take on a big risk you might as well not do it halfway. I
probably travel in the wrong circles, to put it lightly.

~~~
tomp
> if you're going to take on a big risk

It's not only the risk, it's also finding the right whole-sale provider, which
I imagine is not the easiest thing to find.

~~~
Consultant32452
The guy in the article mentioned his supplier of MDMA explicitly. I assume he
has a different supplier for his different drugs.

------
Tloewald
So, um legalize harmless recreational drugs already.

While we're at it, how about adding "no victim: no crime" to the constitution.

------
corin_
In the UK (at least in my anecdotal experience, I know people in London,
Oxfordshire and Cambridgeshire) it seems there's hardly any money to be made
in selling weed any more. I'm sure further up the chain there is, but at
actual dealer levels (I've never come across a "street corner" sort of person,
just those who either sell from their home or travel to deliver) there's very
little profit available. I don't know how long this has been the case (seems
to have become so much more over the past couple of years I think), and having
never been a dealer myself I don't know exactly how much can be made now, or
in the past.

But essentially, it seems there are very few weed dealers left, other than two
types: pot-heads who sell to a circle of friends to subsidise their own
smoking, or people who sell harder drugs (in my experiences: cocaine) and have
a bit of weed on the side but don't focus on it.

Cocaine on the other hand... I've had friends who sell it (not in a "I became
friends with a dealer" way, but just people who I found out deal unrelated to
how I knew them), and there is a _lot_ of money to be made there, even selling
fairly small quantities. It's been a few months since I've had a conversation
on this topic, but afaik it's still the case, even with people who sell to a
few dozen people, mostly small quantities, can make a hell of a living from
it.

All that said, it's possible my knowledge is from a fairly affluent middle
class angle (hell, the last person I met who randomly turned out to be a coke
dealer was somebody who held a decent job in the PC hardware industry, though
he's stopped dealing now).

Would love to know more about the economies involved (for example I've heard
rough numbers of cost for cocaine from its origin in South America to UK
consumers, but not in huge detail), but it's very hard to find out this sort
of information without being directly involved yourself.

~~~
librethrowaway
I disagree somewhat, dealing marijuana is still quite profitable, even in west
coast USA where ubiquitous medical/legal marijuana has driven down prices a
lot. As for east coast? From what I hear, the markup is still huge, with
retail prices roughly double of west coast.

The only people I know of making a living exclusively selling marijuana (on
the west coast) are small-time growers, though.

You're definitely right about crack/molly, the profit margins on those are
ridiculous - because what's truly valuable there are the connections.

~~~
corin_
It may be that it's different in the UK (where I am), apart from anything weed
generally travels much shorter distances here. I heard from friends in one
region here that after the police busted a local farm with a few million £ of
weed grown there, there were a couple of months where every dealer had
incredibly limited supplies, mostly coming in from Holland rather than
elsewhere in the UK. There definitely isn't as much growth here as west coast
USA.

Of course it's also possible that there are dealers making good money off weed
here and I just haven't come across them. But my anecdotal data points are at
least reasonably varied, from well off people in good jobs to a couple living
off benefits in council estates.

~~~
librethrowaway
I agree they're definitely the exception to the rule, most of that 'last mile'
of going from ounces to a gram or two seems to be made up of people doing it
on the side for a bit of extra money.

It does sound like the supply chain there is quite a bit different.

------
mikestew
"Customers in Colorado and Washington State no longer need to pay a premium
for black-market marijuana."

Colorado, maybe. Since the retail operations are not open for business yet in
WA, we still don't know if retail is going to be cheaper. That's the part that
worries me. I look at the tax structure (25% on each of the three players
involved: grower, processor, retailer) and wonder how they're going to keep it
under $100/quarter ounce.

It's happened already in WA: tax the hell out of something and then wonder why
revenues dropped. A few years back WA jacked up the tobacco tax a ridiculous
amount (I think a pack of smokes was like $8). Shortly after, the state
complained that revenues took a dive. Duh, ya think? They raised taxes so much
it was now practical to either order via the Internet (KY has smokes for $3,
IIRC) or drive out of your way to the American Indian reservation.

If a quarter ounce of legal weed comes out to $150 because of taxes, this
grand experiment isn't going to end well. (If someone has some hard math on
what the consumer-level price might be, I'd love to be corrected on this.)

~~~
chenelson
Ha. I've seen $22/gram recreational with a max of 3 grams, and people are
lining up in downtown Denver. Things aren't much better in Boulder, where the
city is dragging their feet on recreational. You can get 1 gram of wax
(concentrate) for $25 black market (the bicyclists love their sativas), or
from $40 to $65 in one of the shops (lower price typically medical).

I think the pie is probably growing. Good number of senior citizens are
waiting patiently in line for 15 minutes; favorite line: "Sativa edible? I
can't wait for bingo tonight."

------
peterwwillis
It's funny that they didn't interview any actual neighborhood-dealers. The
people sitting on the corner slinging dope have a much more dangerous job than
people with clientele who are discreet and wealthy. I suppose it's because
they're perceived as so dangerous that reporters never talk to them. But ask a
corner man his life story and he'll tell you about serving time, getting shot,
and paying off cops to stay alive. Stories like this one really gives you a
romantic - and unrealistic - idea of dealing.

~~~
ryanobjc
Part of the point of the article is exactly that - what is your "neighborhood
dealer" now-a-days?

The people sitting on the corner slinging dope is itself an image, and may not
be reflected in reality anymore. Especially with police wise to that kind of
behavior, surely it makes sense to be able to blend in?

~~~
bluedino
>> The people sitting on the corner slinging dope is itself an image, and may
not be reflected in reality anymore.

Have you been in a bad part of town lately?

The places to buy drugs are liquor stores and car washes in bad neighborhoods.
Plenty of people standing around willing to sell you $20 worth of your drug of
choice.

Why do you think so much gun violence occurs in those areas?

------
V-2
"At one residence, a businessman in his 40s opened the door, still dressed for
the office in a suit and silk tie, still, by phone, issuing stern instructions
to one of his colleagues"

Not very professional for a drug dealer, bringing a journalist to his
customer's house (not to mention the customer accepting this fact without
batting an eye). It reads like something Stephen Glass could have written.

------
D9u
[http://www.democracynow.org/2011/2/8/headlines/hilary_clinto...](http://www.democracynow.org/2011/2/8/headlines/hilary_clinton_says_us_cant_legalize_drugs_because_there_is_too_much_money_in_it)

------
jschmitz28
> In many circles, drugs are nearly as easy to find as liquor.

I can't figure out if this is a mistake, deception (liquor is not a drug, it
just contains one), or implying that "drugs" means "illegal drugs".

~~~
ryanobjc
I think the reason why you are getting downvoted is because, especially from
the context, its very common to know that 'drugs' means 'drugs taken for fun'
(not all of them are illegal either).

See, this is why I'm not sure I like computer people anymore - overly
pedantic, not advancing the conversation. I call that 'smart-stupid' \-- so
smart, yet dumb at the same time.

~~~
jschmitz28
I wasn't trying to be pedantic. I probably should've been more direct but what
I mean is that it's a disservice to the article to distinguish alcohol from
all other recreational drugs like that. The way it's worded makes it sound
like alcohol is not a drug at all, which opens up people's minds into treating
the two differently even though one literally IS the other.

~~~
CocaKoala
The article talks about drug dealers. Unless you call the cashier at the local
liquor store your dealer (and you're super weird if you do that; don't do
that), it seems exceedingly clear from context that they're referring to
illegal drugs. Blatantly ignoring contextual clues like that is obnoxious at
best.

~~~
Myrmornis
Wow, wtf? Why are you guys downvoting jschmitz28? Of course a local liquor
store is a drug dealer. You do realize the USA is not the only country in the
world right, and that the USA is leading the world in cannabis legalization
variously across different jurisdictions in the USA? Which drugs fall in the
illegal set and which fall in the legal set depends on _jurisdiction_. Just
because your mom and pop told you that drugs were bad, doesn't mean your mom
and pop were expert ontologists / semanticists. "Drugs" includes alcohol and
MDMA and cannabis. "Illegal drugs" depends on jurisdiction. I'm surprised
computer programmers are having trouble with this.

~~~
corin_
Scientifically alcohol is a drug, culturally it isn't called that. Even go
somewhere where people don't drink and they wouldn't use the term "drugs" as
an umbrella to include alcohol.

> _" Of course a local liquor store is a drug dealer."_

Yes, technically correct, but just like jschmitz28 it's incredibly pedantic.
The phrase "drug dealer" isn't used to mean "someone who technically sells
drugs", it's used to mean "someone who sells illegal recreational drugs". In
this case the mom and pop version is what absolutely everyone uses.

~~~
Myrmornis
> Even go somewhere where people don't drink and they wouldn't use the term
> "drugs" as an umbrella to include alcohol.

Ah, interesting, I didn't know that. How many muslim cultures and languages
are you familiar with?

~~~
corin_
That's my experience when people are speaking English, whether first language
or not, in other languages I have no idea.

~~~
Myrmornis
Right, but alcohol is currently legal in most English-speaking jurisdictions.
So the places you're referring to are the least relevant to the question of
whether alcohol is considered a "drug" by modern humans.

