
Barbados introduces plan to allow visitors to work remotely there for a year - jshc
https://money.yahoo.com/barbabos-introduces-plan-to-allow-visitors-to-work-remotely-there-for-a-year-192734193.html
======
GordonS
This is really interesting - I wonder if, in our post-COVID world, we'll see
other countries doing the same.

I'm trying to see any disadvantages for countries that do this, but the only
thing I came up with is the possibility of distorting local rental prices. But
presumably if enough countries offered such a visa, applicants would be spread
over those countries, causing less distortion.

~~~
throwaway894345
I would love to work remotely from Europe. I would think it would be in the
interest of European countries to make this kind of arrangement because I
would be spending my cushy US salary on European goods and services and not
taking a job away from a European.

~~~
dominotw
> cushy US salary

Wouldn't this be tax fraud to claim an address in US as your paycheck address
and not actually live there?

~~~
taylortrusty
How is that tax fraud? You pay federal taxes anywhere in the world you live as
an American citizen.

~~~
dominotw
ok i work 100% remote, can I claim my sisters address in Texas in texas for my
payroll and actaully live in new york?

I am genuinely curious. This will save me tens and thousands of dollars every
year if this isn't fraud.

why the downvotes, i don't get it.

~~~
jsjohnst
> ok i work 100% remote, can I claim my sisters address in Texas in texas for
> my payroll and actaully live in new york?

That’s an entirely different issue. Yes, New York _state_ will likely take
issue with the scenario you describe, but not at the federal level (what this
thread is about). Further nobody, but you, was indicating lying about their
address.

~~~
dominotw
> That’s an entirely different issue.

how is it different?

OP is claiming an address in USA for payroll as his residence but it isn't
actually his residence. How is this not fraud.

~~~
jsjohnst
Reread their post again, there is no mention of lying about their address to
their employer. Based on your other comments, it seems you assume that all
employers wouldn’t maintain a salary if someone moves, which isn’t true (yes,
it’s common for employers to adjust salaries for that reason, but it’s not an
automatic given).

~~~
dominotw
Really shocked by this. I had no idea there are employers who doesn't adjust
your salary from US salary if you move to an entirely different country.

all the examples i know of like gitlab, mozilla ect adjust it to local country
comp.

anyone know if such an employer actually exists in US?

~~~
jsjohnst
> anyone know if such an employer actually exists in US?

Yes. I’ve personally seen it happen multiple times at different employers,
each with unique factors.

There are way to many factors at play here to make broad assumptions that no
employer does it...

\- first and foremost, Covid changed everything when it comes to remote salary
norms

\- Duration of move (some employers would be more lenient for 6-12mo vs
permanent move)

\- level of seniority (which correlates somewhat with how hard it is to
replace said employee if employer says no)

\- how long as the employee worked for employer (another factor in how much it
impacts employer if employee moves anyway and goes to work for another
company)

\- how bad the employer wants to retain said employee (Multiple previous
emplayers, big and small, have made exceptions for specific coworkers)

\- it’s important enough to mention again, Covid changed everything.

~~~
dominotw
> There are way to many factors at play here to make broad assumptions that no
> employer does it...

Yes you can make broad assumptions that almost no hr, payroll, legal dept of
any company is setup to deal with taxes, labor laws ect across hundreds of
different countries.

Yes exceptions exist.

> \- it’s important enough to mention again, Covid changed everything.

No it didn't. Do you have even a single example of an employer thats allowing
ppl work longterm from whichever country they please due to covid?

~~~
jsjohnst
> Do you have even a single example of an employer thats allowing ppl work
> longterm from whichever country they please due to covid?

Yes, I do, but I’m not doing your research for you. You’ve been extremely
combative and flat rude and incredulous this entire thread, so I’m stopping my
participation. If you genuinely are in pursuit of knowledge and not to just
pick random fights on the Internet, then I implore you to use a different
approach.

~~~
dominotw
Sorry I wasn't trying to be rude, yes I agree that my comment were indeed
rude. I apologize to you.

I'll try to be better.

I did do my research but I havent found any company that,

1\. Lets you move to any country

2\. Adjusts your payroll to that country's address.

3\. Doesn't adjust your compensation from what you were getting paid in USA.

I do know of some exceptions where people were allowed to move to a country
where they already have a home office. One of my coworkers moved to Dublin and
my company had a home office in Ireland. Some of my coworkers are also stuck
in countries like India due to covid and HR allows them to work from there for
now. But it is not any sort of company policy to let ppl work from a random
country forever while maintaining their US salaries.

But the claim here is that you can move to any random country like Barbados.

------
cheeze
> Mottley addressed the concern: “In terms of broadband, we have two major
> telecommunications companies, and at the same time we are looking to see how
> we can continue to boost our national television station and move it from
> being a broadcasting entity to digital services.”

Not... the most inspiring, but maybe the internet is good? That would be my
biggest worry. It's an absolute must have.

~~~
nness
I'd imagine the internet just has to be good enough to have video calls and
transfer the occasional large file for 90% of people.

I think life on a Caribbean island would be enough reason to ditch our usual
high bandwidth vices like gaming and streaming for just a year.

~~~
dylz
Some examples:

[https://discoverflow.co/barbados/broadband/overview](https://discoverflow.co/barbados/broadband/overview)

[https://discoverflow.co/barbados/mobile/plans/prepaid](https://discoverflow.co/barbados/mobile/plans/prepaid)

[https://www.digicelgroup.com/bb/en/mobile/plans/postpaid-
pla...](https://www.digicelgroup.com/bb/en/mobile/plans/postpaid-plans.html)

~~~
chongli
The real question is how good the backbone is that feeds the country. If large
numbers of people move there and start doing video calls, streaming Netflix,
etc then it could use a ton of bandwidth.

------
tbronchain
Georgia just introduced something similar:
[https://agenda.ge/en/news/2020/2654](https://agenda.ge/en/news/2020/2654)

~~~
graeme
Do they have a health insurance option? That’s a big issue for international
travel with the pandemic.

~~~
tbronchain
They require to have one.

I do not necessarily personally recommend it but I know Safetywing is a
popular choice for nomads and officially covers Covid. Otherwise you can look
at either your countries of citizenship or residency that have international
health insurance. IMO it makes sense to get an insurance from the country you
would like to get repatriate to if you get in a very bad condition.

------
DoofusOfDeath
AFAIK, U.S. imposes income tax on all of its citizens, even those who reside
in other countries. IIRC it applies to all earnings above $110k(?). There's
also the notoriously difficult hassle of complying with FATCA's [0] reporting
requirements.

I would imagine that sours the value proposition quite a bit, at least for
U.S. citizens.

[0] [https://www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations/foreign-
account-...](https://www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations/foreign-account-tax-
compliance-act-fatca)

~~~
edanm
(not a lawyer or accountant, but know a bit about this)

That depends on the country. Some (I imagine most?) countries have deals with
each other when it comes to taxation, to avoid double taxation.

So if you're earning a salary in, say, Israel, then you only have to pay US
taxes on money that hasn't already been income-taxed in Israel. Therefore,
whether you're paying more taxes than locals depends on whether the tax rate
in the country is higher or lower than in the US. If it's higher, then you end
up not having to pay anything extra.

That said, these things get tricky and there are lots of individual wrinkles.
E.g. freelancers typically have to pay taxes either way here, afaik. Then
again, those taxes aren't doing nothing - they're paying for you to have a US
social safety net of some sort.

~~~
MrPowers
Most countries follow territorial / residence based taxation. People that live
in the country are taxed in that country. An Italian that lives in Italy pays
tax to Italy. An Italian that lives in the US, pays tax to the US.

A couple of countries have worldwide / citizen taxation (i.e. the US). A US
citizen that lives in Singapore will pay tax to both Singapore and the US.
They pay tax to Singapore and can claim a tax credit on their US tax return.
They can also claim the foreign earned income exclusion deduction.

~~~
unishark
> A couple of countries have worldwide / citizen taxation (i.e. the US). A US
> citizen that lives in Singapore will pay tax to both Singapore and the US.
> They pay tax to Singapore and can claim a tax credit on their US tax return.
> They can also claim the foreign earned income exclusion deduction.

So it ends up working out like residence-based taxation for most people
anyway, but with more steps? Except I guess if the country has a lower tax
rate than the US, then you'd need to pay the difference?

------
aunty_helen
"Digital nomad visas" are starting to become more common as countries realise
they bring in low impact wealthy online based 'tourists.'

Currently, it's very possible to travel on a 3-6 month basis between countries
under tourist visas and to work remotely in a somewhat illegal fashion. These
nomad visas are an attempt to capture that market offering legitimacy for a
fee.

Unfortunately, Barbados hasn't really hit the sweet spot here. It's possible
to exist in Barbados for 6 months purely as a tourist and do the usual remote
working gig where you just don't walk up to a tax official and start telling
them you're working in an illegal manner. Or, you can now apply for this visa,
stay the whole year, be legit, but you have to meet some conditions and hand
over 2k USD which is pretty steep.

~~~
dzhiurgis
Yeah seems there needs to be something provided in return. Healthcare probably
pays off itself compared to US.

~~~
aunty_helen
I don't think you're going to save on healthcare with visas like this. You're
still required to be fully covered with your own health insurance as one of
the visa conditions.

This removes the possibility of you being a burden on their public health
system, which is common amongst not just these new 'nomad' visas but also the
working holiday visas that have been around for decades.

~~~
dzhiurgis
Maybe. I'm guessing health insurance is still going to be cheaper to buy in
any country outside US. A lot of time it's not worth to get insurance at all
and just pay out of your pocket (because you aren't ripped off by hospitals).

But going back to point - why would anyone get this permit when they can stay
on tourist visa. I guess complacency is one reason.

------
altvali
Does this apply to U.S. passport holders only? If not, what about taxes? If
you spend 12 months in Barbados, will you have to pay your taxes there?

~~~
UglyToad
As the other poster says you continue to pay income tax in your home country
and you're also forbidden from working for any Barbados company since they
don't want people taking local jobs.

However this may have tax consequences in your home country. I'm from the UK
and if you spend more than 180(?) days abroad in a tax year you become non-
resident which has some implications. You'll need to consult an accountant I
guess.

I got my visa and I'm hopefully heading out towards the end of September, it
should be fun.

~~~
objclxt
> I'm from the UK and if you spend more than 180(?) days abroad in a tax year
> you become non-resident which has some implications

This isn’t quite accurate. There are other tests that come into play,
including whether you own a house in the UK, and how long you spent outside
the UK for the rest of the year (and the preceding years).

Basically if you live in the UK, then spend 180 days (or even a whole year)
outside the UK but then immediately return HMRC is not going to consider you a
non-resident for that period.

It is worth paying for tax advice before you leave because the rules are
complicated and there are other factors aside from just not being in the
country.

~~~
arethuza
"worth paying for tax advice"

I knew someone who, through their employer, got tax advice from one of the big
name accounting firms that turned out to be completely wrong - leaving them
liable for tax both in the UK and in the country they had travelled to. It all
got sorted out in the end but took a long time and was he was rather unhappy
with the whole thing, as you can probably imagine.

~~~
0xfaded
I had this situation where an employee insisted on tax advice from the
company's lawyer. The law firm represents who is paying, same for liability.
In the end we sponsored an expensive email basically saying as such.

~~~
arethuza
One thing I have learned through bitter experience is if there is a
significant tax issue at stake then get your own lawyer and/or tax adviser.

------
Nasrudith
Really this economically seems similiar to "permanent tourists" if taken to
the logical extreme and extended indefinitely, their income source isn't taxed
directly, they don't take local jobs, but do use local services. Healthcare is
probably one of the most significant differences between transient and
"permanent tourist" compared to transit costs. Not being seasonal is almost
certainly an advantage unless it aligns with another industry's "off season"
and the transit income is likely irrelevant to the host country.

It brings to mind a future organizational hypothetical of a "modularized
citizenship" for work vs residence - unlikely as that may be given the
tendency of nations to insist that their rules are the only rules and thus
international laws are more like guidelines in practice.

------
29athrowaway
Remaining outside the US for more than 12 months may result in a loss of your
green card, if you have one.

------
nine_zeros
It only takes 20 hours to go to the other side of the planet, 10 hours if
you're in the eurasian continent. More and more young people want to travel
and do business in many countries or live a life in different cultures. Lesser
people want a picket fence home with 30 years of slavery.

The only thing stopping this is backward legal systems and the bureaucracy
around these processes.

I imagine a lot of countries will take advantage of this and reduce
bureaucracy in the recovery efforts post covid. Island nations and rapidly
developing countries will probably pioneer this and young people from
developed countries will probably try to escape their own high cost of living
to these nations.

------
mancerayder
How does taxation work for U.S. companies, assuming they allow this?

It's an independent contractor's dream, maybe. It's unclear what tax issues
exist for W2 people.

------
baxtr
What’s the usual rent for a family home there?

~~~
tom_mellior
Looking at [https://www.terracaribbean.com/Barbados/For-
Rent/](https://www.terracaribbean.com/Barbados/For-Rent/) just before it went
down (I guess others are interested too) the first six prices for 1-bedroom
houses/apartments are US$500, US$600, US$625, US$725, US$800, US$800.

------
tonetheman
This sounds really fun. And a good way to spend a year after such a shit year
we have had so far.

------
zanecraw
well ill be damned. packing my bags as we speak lol

------
cblconfederate
Interesting how , in a remote work world, having a passport is a burden .
There might be a demand for an "airbnb for passports" in the future

~~~
jonahbenton
Being able to use someone else's passport....is not now and even more so in
the future will never be a thing. But getting passports from more
jurisdictions and choosing which to present- that is and will be even more of
a thing.

~~~
input_sh
Regarding your second point, there's a couple of dozens of countries that
specifically require you to denounce your other citizenship to gain theirs, as
well as those whose citizenship is lost automatically if you become a citizen
of some other country.

I do see the cases of multiple citizenships (and therefore multiple passports)
increasing in the future, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it to become a
common occurrence within our lifespans.

~~~
jonahbenton
Don't disagree. Could even see that exclusivity strengthening, a global
movement towards national allegiance and homogeneity. Would be a terrible
tragedy.

