
Notes on watching "Aliens" for the first time again, with a bunch of kids - dcre
http://www.rogerebert.com/mzs/watching-aliens-for-the-first-time-again-with-a-bunch-of-kids
======
JohnBooty
I first saw _Aliens_ when I was 12 or 13 on cable in the late 80s and it blew
me away. Perfect movie in every way. I could watch it every day and never get
tired of it. Funny thing was that our local cable network showed the "extended
version" (with the sentry turrets, scenes with Newt's parents, etc) and for
years I thought I'd imagined some of those scenes because the extended version
wasn't available on video until much later.

Fun fact: Jenette Goldstein (Pvt. Vasquez) runs several bra stores in the Los
Angeles area that cater to women with difficult-to-fit sizes. She is a total
sweetheart. If you have a small group and contact her via email ahead of time
she may be willing to make accommodations for your group. We had about four
couples and she opened the store a bit early for our group. The women got
fitting sessions (she personally fitted my wife) and she chatted with us for a
bit afterward, including answering some questions about _Aliens._

Please be respectful of her time and the fact that she's running a business,
obviously. The bras are fairly expensive (but worth it, according to the women
in our group) and they don't carry anything smaller than a D cup. So if you're
not a potential customer, this is not the way to meet "Pvt. Vasquez!"

~~~
bollockitis
> Funny thing was that our local cable network showed the "extended version"
> (with the sentry turrets, scenes with Newt's parents, etc) and for years I
> thought I'd imagined some of those scenes because the extended version
> wasn't available on video until much later.

Wow. So there WERE sentry guns. For years (pre-Google years) I used to argue
that there was a scene with sentry guns, though I don't think that's what I
had called them. Those guns were awesome and they had made a huge impression
on me. Problem was, no one else could remember seeing them. My family and
friends swore I was crazy. So I asked for the uncut version of _Aliens_ for
Christmas one year (probably around 91 or 92) and I was so disappointed. No
sentry guns. So I just figured everyone else was right. I must have imagined
it or was mixing up my films. A few years later I purchased a "special edition
extended version" on VHS which, sadly, also had no sentry guns. So that was
that. I was wrong, there were no sentry guns, and that was the last I thought
of it until now. I knew I saw those damn guns!

~~~
omilu
sentry gun clip:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQDy-5IQvuU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQDy-5IQvuU)

~~~
stcredzero
Holy crap! I'd never seen that before! For its time, that's masterful! It also
makes the sci-fi facet of the screenplay much more intelligent. (Of course the
Colonial Marines are going to use lots of automated weapons!)

------
pluma
In Germany the film is rated 16+, so this story strikes me as really odd. I
wouldn't have thought of showing the film to children any younger than 14,
personally.

But I guess this is a cultural thing. We tend to be more prudish when it comes
to violence but are a lot more relaxed when it comes to nudity or sexuality.

I do remember watching Alien under age (no idea at what age exactly) and
thinking it's the scariest thing I had ever seen, though. However I think it's
difficult to tell whether that did me any harm or not. We tend to overestimate
our own psyche, just as we tend to overestimate how "adult" our children
really are.

~~~
powertower
For all the "think of the children" commentators here and in the blog - why is
it that kids who have parents that hide them from everything "bad", wind up so
messed up, narcissistic, and are generally unable to cope with life?

The answer is of course right there, by putting them in a "safe place" you've
removed every adversary and every challenge - right when the mind needs those
things the most so it can form abilities necessary to deal with and move
forward in life (a life that will throw all kinds of issues, disasters, and
curve balls at you).

Its kind of like the peanut allergy study that was posted here a day or two
ago... The infants and children that don't get exposed to peanuts at an early
age - so their systems can get familiar and use to it, are most likely to end
up in the highly allergic group. _[this is just an analogy]_

edit:

This isn't about movies (that word is not mentioned in my post). Some of the
replies so far are red-herrings
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring)).

I'm not suggesting that children should be constantly exposed (or made to
watch) graphic and horror movies to prepare them for life.

And I'm sure there are cases of children who just can't handle these things at
the age of 10-15... Though most will be fine - and won't need therapy, will
not have their lives ruined, nor will their well-beings be negatively
impacted.

I am also not suggesting that they should have no supervision.

What I am suggesting is that there are too many over-protective and helicopter
parents who are making "special children" that can only live and function
inside bubbles.

And if the child get's broken by watching "Aliens" at the age of 11, then the
problem is with the parenting - rather than the friend's dad who let them
watch it.

In which case, please, attach a note to the child with all the rather
available things that he/she should not be exposed to or is allergic to (like
peanut butter).

We live in a society where a child would have to sit on a park bench for
700,000 years before he/she would get kidnapped, but if you leave him/her in a
car to pay the gas station clerk, someone can take a picture of that child
being untended and send it to the police, which will then charge you with a
misdemeanor.

~~~
CamperBob2
I tend to agree. The biggest problem I have is that movie ratings for all
practical purposes carry the force of law even here in the US, despite the
lack of anything resembling valid evidence of harm that kids under 16 or 17
might undergo by exposure to a movie. The Germans in particular are
ridiculously overprotective in this sense. Um, guys, I'm pretty sure Hitler
never saw _Aliens_. Lighten up already.

The second, more serious criticism I have is that the moral panic associated
with exposure to children to onscreen violence, sex, and drugs can only
diminish the real outrage that we ought to feel when kids in war-torn
countries, inner-city slums, and refugee zones actually _experience_ real-life
violence and horror beyond anything Hollywood can conjure, and on a daily
basis. If most of those kids don't grow up to be serial killers, I somehow
doubt a movie is going to do it.

~~~
DanBC
> If most of those kids don't grow up to be serial killers, I somehow doubt a
> movie is going to do it.

That's not why most people want to restrict the amount of violent content
their children watch.

See, for example, the "You've been Tango'd" ads in the UK. There's a soda
called "Tango". One advert showed someone drinking the can, than a fat near
naked man painted orage runs in, and slaps the drinker's face with both hands.
Children imitated this, causing several perforated eardrums.
[http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Man_%28advertisement%2...](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Man_%28advertisement%29)
(see controversy section). That's one example of children imitating what they
saw on tv, and other children being harmed as a result.

EDIT: i'm not saying children copy everything. But this example proves that
children do imitate some behaviours; that children are influenced by some
things they watch. Ask any parent about the children's show "Caillou" and the
change of their children into whiners. Parents realise that some content will
cause mild behaviour changes or nightmares and they want to be prepared.

~~~
powertower
So how are half of the children, who play violent video-games all day long,
not imitating the behavior they see and do in those games?

We should be at least overrun by car-jackings at this point thanks to Grand
Theft Auto.

~~~
stcredzero
_So how are half of the children, who play violent video-games all day long,
not imitating the behavior they see and do in those games?_

A lot of those games involve hardware the children do not have access to. The
games also often portray consequences in a way which the kids still know to be
very bad. (As much as children play "war," they know viscerally that being in
pain and bleeding is generally not fun.

 _We should be at least overrun by car-jackings at this point thanks to Grand
Theft Auto._

There was one young man who enacted a GTA scenario and shot his way out of a
police station with a gun he stole from a police officer. However, he is very
much the exception.

What the orange advert did was to portray an activity with bad consequences as
a trivial and harmless one, in a way that specifically worked around the built
in understanding that otherwise deters kids from doing things like that.
(Unless they mean harm. That's also within the possible range of behaviors of
children. However, it's not so common in many places for children to want to
really harm their playmates.)

~~~
Cthulhu_
> A lot of those games involve hardware the children do not have access to.

You mean things like fists, feet, pipes, kitchen knives, crowbars, hammers,
that kinda thing? Like others said, if video games made normal people violent
you'd see a lot more violence.

That anecdote about the 'enacting a GTA scenario' would also have happened
just like that without the GTA link. Then it becomes a guy with a gun in a
police station.

~~~
stcredzero
_You mean things like fists, feet, pipes, kitchen knives, crowbars, hammers,
that kinda thing?_

Yes. Actually, there was an incident I was personally witness to involving
someone's 8 year old son and an ordinary clawhammer. There is clearly such a
thing as "desensitization," and opposition to the notion is usually the kind
of unconscious bias one generally sees in politics. <
[http://lesswrong.com/lw/gw/politics_is_the_mindkiller/](http://lesswrong.com/lw/gw/politics_is_the_mindkiller/)
> Note that my position is not so simpleminded as to be simply placed on one
side or another of the typical Internet argument.

If you believe that widespread gun ownership generally increases the incidence
of gun injuries, then you are subscribing to the same general theory, that
availability increases likelihood. Do I believe that's a justification for
banning things? No, but we should be honest about the existence of such
effects. (Also, fists and feet are an entirely different category, as they are
naturally part of your body. And while I said it wasn't common in some places,
in others kids do use those to enact violence.)

 _Like others said, if video games made normal people violent you 'd see a lot
more violence._

I would put good odds on your repeating what lots of people angrily repeat on
the Internet in defense of their hobby. In the grand scheme of things, people
_are_ violent! We are extraordinarily violent as animals. In particular, we
have an ability to band together in groups and murder each other in a
coordinated fashion, one that probably predates our getting language! We also
accomplish fantastic things living together, so we also have fantastic
mechanisms for coexisting. Seeing things in media does have the effect of
reinforcing the portrayed actions and scenarios in our minds. However, human
minds are very complex and robust. We have mental defenses, much as we have
homeostatic mechanisms.

 _That anecdote about the 'enacting a GTA scenario' would also have happened
just like that without the GTA link. Then it becomes a guy with a gun in a
police station._

Read up on the incident and honestly tell me that GTA had nothing to do with
putting the idea into his head. Of course, one could also find other pieces of
media he was exposed to conveying much the same message. The systemic problems
resulting in his violence are probably more serious and of greater import to
society than the content of some video game.

------
danso
It's almost a crime to be a writer on RogerEbert.com yet not reference Ebert's
classic review of Aliens, so well written that I can still remember his
characterization and nod my head at it:

[http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/aliens-1986](http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/aliens-1986)

> _It 's here that my nerves started to fail. "Aliens" is absolutely,
> painfully and unremittingly intense for at least its last hour. Weaver goes
> into battle to save her colleagues, herself and the little girl, and the
> aliens drop from the ceiling, pop up out of the floor and crawl out of the
> ventilation shafts. (In one of the movie's less plausible moments, one alien
> even seems to know how to work the elevator buttons.) I have never seen a
> movie that maintains such a pitch of intensity for so long; it's like being
> on some kind of hair-raising carnival ride that never stops._

> _I don 't know how else to describe this: The movie made me feel bad. It
> filled me with feelings of unease and disquiet and anxiety. I walked outside
> and I didn't want to talk to anyone. I was drained. I'm not sure "Aliens" is
> what we mean by entertainment. Yet I have to be accurate about this movie:
> It is a superb example of filmmaking craft._

It sounds like all of the kids were boys...It'd be interesting to hear the
perspective of girls watching it for the first time. Aliens was one of the
first action movies I ever watched (and remembered) and I don't remember ever,
at all, thinking that it was odd that a woman was in charge (in fact, all of
the strong characters are female). Only years later have I realized that Alien
and Aliens (never watched the other Alien movies) were unique among
blockbuster movies in how the heroine is both the savior and not written as an
object of romantic interest (beyond a brief flirtation with Cpl.
Hicks)...Unlike movies like "Kill Bill" (which I love), the woman isn't
written as an oddity, but a down-to-earth character who happens to be strong
and resourceful. I never even thought Sigourney Weaver was beautiful until
seeing her in other non-action movies.

Edit: speaking of watching Aliens as a kid...I think it's the movie that
caused the longest-running movie-inspired-phobia in my life...hearing
something under my bed, and then not wanting to look under my bed for fear of
a facehugger attacking me.

~~~
kevin_thibedeau
> Aliens was one of the first action movies I ever watched (and remembered)
> and I don't remember ever, at all, thinking that it was odd that a woman was
> in charge (in fact, all of the strong characters are female).

That's because the Ellen Ripley character was originally a man named Martin
Roby.

~~~
bhaak
> That's because the Ellen Ripley character was originally a man named Martin
> Roby.

That doesn't make sense to me. Martin Roby was the original character for
"Alien" and in the first movie, for the most part Ripley wasn't the bad-ass
character she would be throughout the second movie.

But the OP was anyway talking about "Aliens" and there Roby could no longer
have been an influence for her character.

------
sbarre
_The biggest challenge was dissuading kids from trying to predict every single
thing that was going to happen. This is a generation of talkers. They have to
comment on everything. No thought can go unexpressed._

This is, unfortunately, why I so rarely go to the movies anymore. I honestly
don't remember if it was this bad when I was a kid, but I don't think I've
seen a movie in the last 2 years where I didn't want to (or actually have to)
tell some kids (late teen or younger) in my radius to stop talking. A few
times other people even had to chime in when they scoffed at me, like I was
somehow out of place telling them to not talk _during a movie_.

~~~
s_kilk
For what it's worth, I worked in the cinema industry (as a projectionist) for
a few years, and even the old-timers had spotted this trend over time.

Apparently it's much more common to need staff to intervene with talkers in
shows than it was thirty years ago. One memorable case had a staff member
explaining to some kid that he couldn't record the show on his phone. The kid
seemed confused by this, taping things on the phone and sharing them with
friends was just normal, how they engage with every experience.

Another fun thing I noticed from the vantage point of the projection booth: if
you look down into any screening more than about one-quarter full, at any time
during the show you will always, always see at least one mobile-phone in use.
There is never a time when the full audience is giving the film their full
attention.

~~~
savanaly
That phone one might be true because phones are becoming more interesting, not
because of shifting social norms.

~~~
s_kilk
Maybe a bit of both.

But why go to the cinema if not to pay attention to the film? Maybe they were
dragged along to crap films by their friends I suppose.

------
tptacek
_And as we watched, I realized again that while unfortunately you can 't see a
great movie again for the first time, the next-best thing is to show it to
people who've never seen it._

The third-best thing is reading a well-written account of that fresh showing
of the movie. Now I want to watch Aliens again with my kids.

------
acqq
> "This movie has so many cliches in it," a boy said (...) My son told him,
> "This movie was made in 1986. It invented all the cliches."

The first boy was right. It felt full of cliches even then. I watched it in
eighties as soon as it was distributed to my place and I all the time I had
that feeling of "boring 'we're the marines' movie." And I still can't
understand why would anybody consider Aliens an interesting movie. The first
Alien is however something else. And I was always amazed to later watch "The
Dark Star" made before the Alien and find it (among the other things) an Alien
parody made before the Alien(!) It's really so thanks to Dan O Bannon. Now
that's something. Aliens... not even worth mentioning.

Watch Alien, watch The Dark Star. Forget the boring Aliens.

Disclaimer: I'm old enough that I've watched the Star Wars in seventies in my
movie theatre. And Mad Max. And and and.. Of course Aliens were already
cliches and cliches.

~~~
mathgenius
I'm old enough that I saw Aliens in the theatre, with my Dad. I remember he
had a similar perspective to you. His comment was how the original alien was
smarter than than the crew, but in the second movie the aliens are just dumb
animals. This may be true, but for me the second movie is one of my all-time
favourites.

~~~
outworlder
Don't forget the instances where they display intelligent behavior. Such as
turning off the power, operating elevators, the alien queen telling the drones
to back off.

~~~
mathgenius
I don't think operating an elevator (etc.) compares to hunting down and
decimating the entire crew (almost) one by one. Such behavior is so far more
advanced than anything we see in the second movie. There is a real sense that
the alien is just plain smarter than everyone in the crew, and in the end
ripley just has to run for it. None of this happens in the second movie, where
it's just a slaughter fest.

------
noir_lord
I was born in 1980, I didn't have an awesome home life but some of my fondest
memories are watching films like Aliens (and Blade Runner and Terminator) with
my father.

There was and is something undefinable about movies of that era (maybe
everyone feels the same about the movies of their era) that modern films
rarely capture for me.

~~~
krylon
Sci-Fi movies of that era - the good ones, anyway - used to have great
atmosphere. And they were about telling a story.

These days, many movies seem to be about expensive special effects and little
else. While there is nothing wrong with special effects, using them as a
substitute for a story or atmosphere ruins a movie.

~~~
rdtsc
Blade Runner is one of the best for atmosphere I think.

Also the Dark City -- the Matrix before the Matrix if you wish.

~~~
walshemj
Absolutely when they run that opening credits with Vangelis's music thundering
out I thought finaly some one really really gets SF.

~~~
rdtsc
Yes yes yes! Absolutely breathtaking. One of the best intros to a sci fi
movie. And that is with 80's special effects!

Looking back at it, special effects, the mood, is still so distinctive and
well done. And that was probably the pinnacle of non-digital special effects.
And we'll probably never get back to it but even after so much investment and
so much advancement in computer technology, digital effects are still not
quite there (thinking of modern Star Wars, Avatar...). At some point they'll
be outmatched but we are still not there.

------
benmarks
Great write-up. But why did I read the comments? Immediate conjectural descent
into the harm inflicted on the children without parental consent. This is a
more egregious reality today than kids needing to verbalize all the things.

Personally, if I'd sent my 11yo over to _Roger Ebert 's_ house I'd expect him
or her to watch whatever movie was on offer and thoroughly thank me for the
experience years later.

I just watched _Aliens_ for umpteenth time last week. The harsh language line
still gets me. And I always am just a little more on edge when I walk outside
after watching.

~~~
sukilot
Watching a movie with a corpse is something any parent could fairly object to.

~~~
Crito
Oh come on. Even Disney movies have corpses in them.

------
ekianjo
Aliens is one of my most lived movies of all times. But if you plan on buying
a copy of it, please, please make sure you are not buying the Director's Cut
edition. The ones with 20 minutes added to it. Most of the additions are
useless (or just plain bad) and spoil all the surprises the movie had in its
first cut.

Many, many times I find that Director's Cut is just synonymous with "take the
best cut and fill all the crap we did not think was worth it in the first
place".

~~~
Eupolemos
That certainly wasn't true for Bladerunner, IMHO.

~~~
ekianjo
True, but Blade Runner had a different story. The producers forced the
Director to add the voice-over for the final cut of the movie before release
because they would be worried the audience would not "get it" otherwise (if I
remember correctly). The Director's Cut was the true version of the movie
originally planned for theaters.

------
malloreon
The second episode of the excellent "I Was There Too" podcast features Ricco
Ross, who played Private Frost in Aliens.

It's an excellent episode (and show) filled with cool trivia from the cast and
film shoot.

[http://iwastheretoo.wolfpop.com/audio/20250/aliens-with-
ricc...](http://iwastheretoo.wolfpop.com/audio/20250/aliens-with-ricco-ross)

Also, Aliens is the 2nd greatest action movie (after Die Hard) of all time,
and #1 sci-fi action movie ever.

------
pronoiac
Neill Blomkamp, director of "District 9," is going to direct an "Aliens"
sequel! It seems that first he said he'd ignore "Alien 3" and "Alien:
Resurrection," but it seems like he's taken that back.

[1] [http://www.avclub.com/article/neill-blomkamps-alien-movie-
wi...](http://www.avclub.com/article/neill-blomkamps-alien-movie-will-ignore-
alien-3-an-215808)

[2] [http://www.avclub.com/article/actually-blomkamps-alien-
movie...](http://www.avclub.com/article/actually-blomkamps-alien-movie-wont-
ignore-alien-3-215905)

------
cubano
The first time I saw Aliens, I was on acid, and to me, in that state of mind,
it seemed like the best movie ever created.

I remember sweating a lot watching it, and all the meta-references that
psychedelics enhance seemed to work perfectly within the framework of this
story and show.

More to the authors point, I have two grown sons and a 13yo daughter, and
always, the best way for me to relive my (often misspent) youth is with and
through them, by sharing the same or very similar experiences.

------
agumonkey
Some movies will leave beautiful scars in your minds. The atmosphere of
Robocop and Alien still pull me back.

~~~
jsmeaton
Yes, Robocop did do this to me. It was one of the weirdest movies I had
watched at the time. It's been a long long time since I've seen it though, I'm
probably due for another viewing.

I watched the remake a few weeks ago. It was _ok_ but it didn't leave an
impression on me like the original did.

~~~
__david__
> I watched the remake a few weeks ago. It was ok but it didn't leave an
> impression on me like the original did.

What bothered me was that they completely removed all the satire of the
original. Robocop had a very dark sense of humor throughout—I love the scene
where they're shooting the cans of baby food, and the one where the all news
cameras follow the man falling out the window to his death[1].

Oh, and all the news reports and commercials. The new one played it really
serious, where the original didn't take itself seriously at all.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md14H_qD8iQ?t=1m47s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md14H_qD8iQ?t=1m47s)

~~~
DanBC
There's a bit of footage where the filmakers talk about the death of the
executive after the new robot malfunctions, and how censors reacted.

The original clip showed him dying, and the machine just keeps firing and
firing and firing. It becomes darkly funny.

Censors didn't like the scene but their suggestion was to cut down the length
of time the gun fires. That turned the scene into something less funny and
more brutal.

------
sparkzilla
I watched Aliens with my 10-year-old daughter a few weeks ago. We had watched
Alien a few weeks before. She had wanted to watch a real horror, but couldn't
make it through the first few minutes of Scream, so we settled on Alien. She
thought the alien bursting out of John Hurt's character was really funny. And
it is. She thought the beginning of Aliens was too slow and it wasn't all that
scary for her, but she enjoyed the film overall. I don't know if I would watch
Prometheus with her - I'm sure she'd agree that film was terrible.

~~~
rdtsc
Prometheus wasn't bad I think, I just never compared or put it in the same
league as Alien(s).

~~~
insin
Ripley would have just ran sideways.

~~~
davesque
Right. And she wouldn't have acted all butt-hurt about just having had a
c-section without anesthesia.

~~~
Crito
That c-section was simultaneously the best and worst part of the movie for me.
The scene itself was great. Thematically and artistically, it was on-point. It
felt like _exactly_ the kind of scene that belongs in an Alien movie.

What I hated is how the rest of the cast failed to react after it was done.
They had been trying to capture her, she gets away, gets it cut out of her,
and then everyone seems to forget or forgive just because that old guy was
coming out of cryo-sleep. They should not have been so easily distracted.

------
tootie
I love how the kids think action movie cliches date back to 1986. Every sang
froid action hero is copying Clint Eastwood from the 60s who was copying
Toshiro Mifune from the 50s who was copying Humphrey Bogart from the 40s. You
can pretty much follow the trail back to Gilgamesh.

------
protomyth
I saw Aliens when it opened and I was about a week from turning 16. I had seen
Alien when it came out (my Mom was a movie lover), and had been about a month
from turing 9. I had not even seen the trailer so I was expecting another
creepy horror film. I was totally blown away, it really felt like an action
adventure with some horror. Since then, they released an extended edition with
the auto-cannons and it seems like a different film.

Funny thing is the first movie was scary when I saw it, but not something I
dwelled on. I did get the big Alien that glowed in the dark for Xmas, and that
scared the crap out of me when my Dad hung them by their tails in the
basement.

Plus, for how many times you hear: "Nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to
be sure" or the actual quote "Nuke the entire site from orbit--it’s the only
way to be sure", it had to have a bit of an impact.

~~~
a3n
I actually heard the phrase in a programming shop before I'd ever seen the
movie, and it made sense. It was a fun moment when I finally saw the movie.

------
dankohn1
I watched the first half of War Games (1983) with my 6 and 8 year old boys
tonight, and they were both totally into it. The movie holds up incredibly
well, especially the back-and-forth of Matthew Broderick and Ally Sheedy
choosing targets to attack as the officers in NORAD are running around
panicked.

I can perhaps imagine showing Aliens to my sons when they're 11, but it seems
overly aggressive to show their friends, without getting explicit agreement
from their parents first.

~~~
rsync
Agreed - wargames holds up really well, even now in 2015. It's a fantastic
movie.

------
jonhohle
My son (just born Friday!) has a named influenced by Aliens. The special
edition is one of my favorite movies. Even as an adult I could watch it
continuously. I can't wait to watch it with my boys (quite a few years to go).

What a treat to see such a great dad and movie story on an exhausted morning.
Joeri's comment about practical effects is spot on.

~~~
nacnud
It's a lil' baby Facehugger! (congratulations!)

------
xivusr
Very fond memories of watching Aliens, Predator, & Leviathon with my dad on
weekends when mom was working. Fun read.

------
nmeofthestate
I remember being horrified by Alien when it was shown on TV - I disappeared
upstairs after the chestburster scene because I couldn't handle it. It haunted
my dreams for weeks.

11 year olds must be hardened wee bastards these days.

------
beloch
The early 80's were a truly special time for action cinema, and sequels in
particular. There were several sequels that stand out for both putting a
completely different spin on the movies that preceded them while offering
relentless and tight pacing.

Aliens is just one example. Consider also, "The Road Warrior" (a.k.a. Mad Max
2). It took the faded and failing civilization of the original and pushed that
out to every extreme possible. Total collapse. Anarchy. Barbarism. Post-
apocalyptic wasteland. It also featured some of the tightest editing, most
impressive stunts, and most relentless action of any film ever made. However,
it was far from alone.

"The Empire Strikes Back" took the light, fun, and somewhat corny adventure of
"Star Wars" and turned that into a dark, brooding character driven film that
was a non-stop roller coaster of tension. Empire is the film that makes people
take Star Wars seriously no matter how much zany Ewok slapstick and standup-
droid-comedy Lucas put into ROTJ and the prequels (I refuse to even type the
full J-J word). The 2001-derivative "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" was
followed by the "The Wrath of Khan", which itself focused on character
development and featured a climactic battle between both leaders and star
ships. This film, despite being made on a shoestring budget when compared to
the first Trek film, defined Trek movies for all time. Arguably, the franchise
has suffered as Trek film after Trek film tried to recapture the magic of "The
Wrath of Khan" instead of blazing their own paths.

When you watch these films and compare them to today's action flicks, one
thing that stands out is that the action is anything but non-stop. All of
these films feature extended sequences of slow, careful character development
that are punctuated by action scenes. Compare the most recent Superman film to
Aliens for example. Aliens may have felt relentless and draining in its last
hour, but the first hour is relatively slow. That slow, building action sets
everything up. It made us care so much about the characters and appreciate how
utterly alone and vulnerable they were that it was tough watching them go
through the meat grinder of the second half.

"Man of Steel" on the other hand, begins with action, continues with action,
and ends with action, taking only brief breaks to string along a flimsy plot
and barely flesh out stereotypical characters. Halfway through the city-
wrecking final action sequence one finds oneself wishing the film would just
get to the point! Both the magnitude of destruction and sheer volume of film
expended in "Man of Steel" dwarfs that of Aliens, but there is only a fraction
of the tension. You could take your time going to the bathroom at any point in
"Man of Steel" and, odds are, all you'd miss is some CG mayhem that has no
lasting effect on the plot. Does it really matter how many buildings Superman
and his foes level without resolving anything?

Today's film makers are too often afraid of boring their audience and too
frequently sacrifice developing what makes the action matter for the sake of
giving their audience non-stop action. Non-stop meaningless action is like
eating nothing but ice-cream for dinner. Sure, ice cream is great, but it
simply isn't satisfying on its own. Today's film makers should look to the
early 80's as an example of what can be accomplished when you don't
underestimate your audience's attention span.

~~~
soylentcola
> "Man of Steel" on the other hand, begins with action, continues with action,
> and ends with action, taking only brief breaks to string along a flimsy plot
> and barely flesh out stereotypical characters. Halfway through the city-
> wrecking final action sequence one finds oneself wishing the film would just
> get to the point!

It's like the cinematic equivalent of "the loudness wars" in music production.
In music, the idea is that people like volume and it makes songs stand out on
the radio, jukebox, or a test screening so the only way to compete with
loudness is more loudness. The fear is that compared to competing tunes your
offering will seem too quiet and boring and some ADHD-addled listener might
(gasp!) change the channel.

In movies you also see this sacrifice of pacing and careful buildup of tension
for wall-to-wall action and destruction. On the surface, more volume, more
energy, more destruction, and more action seem like a sure way to ensure
something memorable since you've maximized the "peaks" and avoided those dull,
boring "valleys".

In reality, the whole thing is mentally exhausting and you end up with no
stand-out moments. When you start off at 11 and stay at 11, you miss the
buildup. I'd argue that in music and in film, it's the "contrast" between high
and low that elicit the most memorable experiences.

------
bwldrbst
When I was about 5 I wandered into the room just in time to see my slightly
older cousin watch the opening scene of An American Werewolf In London. That
convinced me I wanted nothing to do with "scary" movies.

A few years later I saw an advertisement for Aliens and declared "I never want
to see that movie!"

When I finally did watch Aliens at about 15 it immediately became my favourite
movie. AAWIL is also pretty awesome :]

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davesque
This is perfect. Watching _Aliens_ at exactly that age was a rite of passage
for me. I had been _really_ scared of scary movies up to that point. When I
saw _Aliens_ , it definitely freaked me out but, after the movie was over, my
mind had been blown and I thought it was the coolest thing ever. Totally cured
me of my scary movie phobia too.

------
aceperry
The Aliens series of sci-fi films is my favorite of all time. Even though I
watched the first two on tv, they were still amazing, and I have the 5 DVD
set. I enjoyed them all, even though one or two of them weren't as popular.
The story lines and arcs were pretty original and well thought out. Just an
awesome series.

------
TheMagicHorsey
This movie inspired an entire generation of Video Game developer aesthetics.
You can see the influence of this movie in literally every single game that is
SciFi with human soldiers in it.

The most obvious examples are Natural Selection and Halo ... but there are
many others.

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teekert
Based on the title I thought it was going to be about kids freaking out and
that one should pay attention to "kid's friendliness" of movies. But no. I
also wouldn't be very amused if someone showed it to my kid without asking me
first.

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sebastianconcpt
Hilarious kids, thaks for sharing!

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seesomesense
Showing that movie to 11 year olds is totally inappropriate.

~~~
davesque
Not all the time. I saw it when I was eleven and I consider that to have been
a formative experience for the better.

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gbog
I don't know what slumber party means but it seems completely crazy to have a
bunch of kids together and play video games, eat pizza, watch horror movies.
Do you want spoiled fat bored and boring kids? Because that's how you get
that.

I don't mean to mean that my 5yo boy and I never eat pizza or play video games
or watch anime. But when we do it's because we are on our own, a Sunday
evening, after having gotten outside with friends, and I'm too tired to play
Lego.

Also, alien is really a horror movie, playing hard with the nerves of the
audience. Way too hard for 11yo kids if you ask me.

~~~
__david__
> I don't know what slumber party means…

A slumber party is a party where the guests spend the night at the hosts
house. This typically involves pizza, movies, and the kids trying to stay up
as late as possible. I seem to remember going to maybe 1 or 2 slumber parties
a year.

It's definitely a special occasion and the late night aspect of it lends
itself to movies, since by the time the movies come on it's typically too late
to make a bunch of noise outside.

> Do you want spoiled fat bored and boring kids? Because that's how you get
> that.

No, actually, slumber parties are _not_ how you get that.

~~~
gbog
Ok, if slumber parties are late night parites then my point need to change a
bit:

\- Getting 11yo kids to officially stay up as late as possible is a weird
idea. They will stay up late anyway but why make it official?

\- Many games are suitable for some kids together in the evening. I mean non-
video games.

\- Watching a movie can be useful to cool down the atmosphere but watching an
horror movie just before sleep seems not very advisable. I do not buy the
argument that these kids did already see all suitable cartoons and movies. Did
they really see all of Miyazaki, Chaplin, Buster Keaton, old Disneys, etc? If
so,they clearly watch too much movies.

\- I do not think pizza is a good diet for kids (and adults), and it is
better, if possible, to not link in their mind fast-food and "having nice time
together". I guess it is not convenient to cook a three courses meal with many
kids around, but there are other, better possibilities including bbq, picnic,
salads, etc. (My reasoning is that having a nice time together is in most
culture synonym for having a nice meal together, and so the food can be more
important than we think in these occasions.)

~~~
wishinghand
The staying up late portion of the slumber party is more like
tolerated/permitted rather than encouraged.

Almost every slumber party I went to/heard of watched an action movie or a
horror movie that wasn't too hardcore for our preteen selves. I'm pretty sure
it's cultural at this point. Also these kids are friends of Ebert's kid. I'm
pretty sure they'll be much more movie-literate than the average kid.

We were a bit too old for nintendo and too young for n64 to be part of the
culture where we lived, so no comment on video games. We did run around the
backyard pool for quite a while.

