
Forget Self-Improvement - karjaluoto
http://www.deliberatism.com/blog/forget-self-improvement/
======
coffeemug
When I was starting my company, I had to cold-call a few dozen people to test
a hypothesis. I delayed it for weeks, and when I finally forced myself to pick
up the phone, I dreaded dialing every digit.

Today, three years into running the company, picking up the phone to call a
dozen people is peanuts. I don't like doing it, I'm not very good at it, I
delegate it whenever I can, but if call I must, I'll do it, I'll be efficient
at it, and I'll get results.

Saying "you didn't do it because you weren't meant to" is nonsense. Get your
act together, stop making excuses for yourself, and do the uncomfortable thing
that must be done, even if you lose sleep over it. If you do it long enough,
it will seize being uncomfortable and become second nature. Shakespeare said
it best through Hamlet:

    
    
      Assume a virtue, if you have it not.
      That monster, custom, who all sense doth eat,	 
      Of habits devil, is angel yet in this,	 
      That to the use of actions fair and good	 
      He likewise gives a frock or livery,
      That aptly is put on. Refrain to-night;	 
      And that shall lend a kind of easiness	 
      To the next abstinence: the next more easy;	 
      For use almost can change the stamp of nature,
      And master ev’n the devil or throw him out	 
      With wondrous potency.

~~~
karjaluoto
The argument isn't one of never doing unpleasant things. (I don't like
changing the oil on my car, but I know it needs to be done.)

Instead, I suggest examining why a desire seems important, and whether it
might be more of a societal (or ego-driven) thing.

Additionally, I believe that if you take the time to find out what you really
enjoy, some things will sort themselves out.

I've been really good at getting off my ass and doing things, as you suggest.
In spite of this willingness to act, some of those things weren't as necessary
as I had once believed.

~~~
kurtvarner
Forget the naysayers. They're missing the point. This was one of the most
enlightening articles I've read in some time.

 _Most of us want to finish the race, but see running as a chore._

The take away - Do what you love and "running" becomes enjoyable.

~~~
matwood
"Enjoyable" can also be a frame of mind. While doing a task that on the
surface seems unenjoyable focus on the enjoyable parts and/or the final
destination ("finishing the race").

------
ISeemToBeAVerb
I think this article makes a valid point, but manages to miss the bigger
picture. It's true, you should love what you do. You should want whatever it
is you're going after. BUT (and this is a big but), what you're going after
isn't always going to be lovable. In fact, sometimes you'll downright hate it.

The problem with achievement in any endeavor is that people assume it should
FEEL easy. They assume that their lack of enthusiasm at any given moment is an
indication that something is wrong.

The writer who has writer's block is apt to tell himself he's a fraud.

The guy who's had a fight with his girlfriend might be inclined to question
the relationship.

The entrepreneur who's business is on the rocks might wonder if a cubicle job
is a better idea.

The beginning programmer who struggles with the concepts might wonder if he's
smart enough.

In the face of obstacles, it becomes very easy to question our path. The
difference between success and failure in many cases is, i think, the
knowledge and wisdom to understand that anything worth doing or having is
HARD. It isn't all tea and roses. Sometimes you're going to want to give up
and that's ok. That's what SHOULD happen, because if what you're doing is so
easy that it never challenges you, then you're likely not doing anything
amazing. True motivation is seeing the end game and still having the balls to
slog through the miles of crap to get there.

~~~
karjaluoto
Seth Godin's book, The Dip, talks about this too.

The question isn't about whether something is difficult; it's one of whether
the net gain is greater than the discomfort felt.

------
lincolnq
Interesting viewpoint.

It does seem like the people who are naturally most driven are naturally more
likely to succeed, because motivation is at the root of almost everything
humans do wrong on a macro scale.

So there's a reason that a lot of self-help is about trying to hack
motivation. Is it working? Not yet, I don't think, but it seems like we might
be on the cusp of it working. I guess your observation boils down to "we
haven't figured out the best ways to hack motivation yet", which appears to be
true.

I guess the part that seems wrong is giving up on self-help because it usually
doesn't work. I would argue not to give up on self-help, but instead to figure
out self-help that actually _works_. The benefits are huge: instead of
spending your life running because you love it so much, you instead hack
yourself to love starting successful businesses. Not because being successful
by itself is the goal, but because doing so is the best way to actually make
the world a better place.

~~~
karjaluoto
Precisely. There's no hack for motivation that's more effective than actually
enjoying something. If you like it, you'll do it, and with time the rewards
(often) increase. If what you're doing is good for you, you may introduce some
positive habits.

As an example, I hate going to the gym. It doesn't matter how much I should be
going, I just hate it. The routine tasks, the big guys who grunt, the sweaty
machines: gross! On the other hand, a mountain bike ride is so much fun that I
don't even realize I'm getting exercise. I go back for the enjoyment, but I
get the benefit of a workout.

~~~
doublerebel
Positive reinforcement and habit formation can make a big difference in
whether or not something is viewed as enjoyable.

From the same article as the Target pregnancy prediction[1]:

 _Over the next four months, those participants who deliberately identified
cues and rewards spent twice as much time exercising as their peers. Other
studies have yielded similar results. According to another recent paper, if
you want to start running in the morning, it’s essential that you choose a
simple cue (like always putting on your sneakers before breakfast or leaving
your running clothes next to your bed) and a clear reward (like a midday treat
or even the sense of accomplishment that comes from ritually recording your
miles in a log book). After a while, your brain will start anticipating that
reward — craving the treat or the feeling of accomplishment — and there will
be a measurable neurological impulse to lace up your jogging shoes each
morning._

[1] [http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/magazine/shopping-
habits.h...](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/magazine/shopping-habits.html)

 _(Credit due to this r/fitness
post:[http://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/ptn63/how_to_train_...](http://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/ptn63/how_to_train_your_brain_to_commit_to_exercise_use/\)*)

------
geraldalewis
I used to be a smoker. Every year or so, I'd quit. I know some people have an
easy go of it, but I was Mark from Trainspotting, watching that baby crawl on
the ceiling. Every time I started smoking again, I'd curse myself, until I
realized I was getting "better" at quitting. I'd subconsciously been making
little life changes in between the painful cold turkey moments. Stuff like
cutting back on how much I smoked a day, developing new ways to deal with
stress, and tasks I could sub out for having a cigarette (oddly: gardening).

I've spent the last few years working really hard on developing my ability to
maintain focus on a task, improving my mental stamina, and pushing my
programming skills. Every time my course veered into a spot where I felt less
productive, I made some painful changes and tried again. And now I'm seeing
the benefits (like getting up at 5 most days of the week, and coding for 12-14
hours). No pain, no gain.

------
adelevie
Relevant to this discussion is pg's essay on "schlep blindness"[0]:

> The most dangerous thing about our dislike of schleps is that much of it is
> unconscious. Your unconscious won't even let you see ideas that involve
> painful schleps. That's schlep blindness.

Hone in on the schleps you typically avoid and be totally honest with yourself
why you're not doing something.

[0] <http://paulgraham.com/schlep.html>

------
szany
_You've got to find what you love. And that is as true for your work as it is
for your lovers. Your work is going to fill a large part of your life, and the
only way to be truly satisfied is to do what you believe is great work. And
the only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you haven't found it
yet, keep looking. Don't settle. As with all matters of the heart, you'll know
when you find it. And, like any great relationship, it just gets better and
better as the years roll on. So keep looking until you find it. Don't settle._

\- Steve Jobs

<http://news.stanford.edu/news/2005/june15/jobs-061505.html>

------
derrida
As someone that ran a marathon and didn't think much of it, there is truth in
this article! I ran because I enjoyed running: but I didn't find this out
until I had been running for two weeks. Enjoyment and ease are two separate
things.

You can only do what you want.

I found my self wanting to run more than it was perhaps safe to do, because I
found it pleasurable. I liked running as running. I didn't like the idea of
running. In fact, I thought of running as something crazy athletic folks with
no brains did.

I enjoy the austere beauty of coding. The long bouts of concentration. The
feeling that your thoughts are alive within the computer. But I also like the
idea of being a super 1337 hacker, you know, the one that makes the machine
magically bend to their will. Sometimes liking the idea of what you are doing
is a distraction for concentrating on what you really enjoy about the thing.

I found this with running as soon as I started setting specific running based
goals. In order to complete these goals I had to commit myself to the idea of
them being worth achieving. Weirdly, I found myself running slightly less when
I fixed myself on such goals since I was no longer concentrating on the purity
of the act of running, which was what I was enjoying.

Human psychology is a troll like that.

If I had to offer advice to someone beginning running, I would say,
concentrate on enjoyment. Until this article, it had never really occurred to
me to practice this elsewhere.

Also, at no time when I was training for the marathon did I think "this is
hard work", until maybe the week or two before when I had solidified my
intentions to run it. I had it in the back of my mind as something I might do
one day, but really I was running because it felt like less work than not
running.

</rant>

------
doktrin
What a load of fatalistic nonsense. This essentially boils down to "if you
haven't done it, don't try since you're clearly not meant to".

A defining feature of individuals with ADD/HD is a tendency to focus on
immediate rewards versus long term goals. This doesn't mean that X-Box and
weed are what the universe 'wants' for anyone, it just so happens it's what
some (or many) people are wired to respond to.

Acknowledging the gap between our natural, immediate, impulses and our long
term desires is part of being an adult, and part of being human. We're capable
of conceptualizing of and seeking a future that is not directly in front of
our noses. Just because you're not immediately drawn to something, or just
because it doesn't "feel" good does NOT mean it isn't worth pursuing.

Apropos, a great Moneyball quote comes to mind :

    
    
      Billy Beane: You don't know how to play first base. Scott?  
      Scott Hatteberg: That's right.  
      Billy Beane: It's not that hard, Scott. Tell him, Wash.  
      Ron Washington: It's incredibly hard.  
      Billy Beane: Hey, anything worth doing is. And we're gonna teach you.

~~~
karjaluoto
That's inaccurate. It actually boils down to: if you don't love it, you
probably won't keep doing it. And if you don't do it, you won't become any
good at it. So, take the time to find what you love.

~~~
karjaluoto
Which should be common sense. Sadly, it's a notion many understand, but few
act upon.

~~~
doktrin
That's because it's perpetually misrepresented. Including by, but not limited
to, this article.

Developing a passion takes time and effort. Speaking for myself, I've actively
disliked a whole slew of things until I developed enough skill to appreciate
it. The stage between starting an endeavor and finding satisfaction in it can
be _very damn long_.

Beginner to intermediate just-about-anything isn't "fun" and won't inspire
feelings of "passion" or "love". That doesn't mean people should be
discouraged by their pursuit.

Some are fortunate to either be very talented or very inspired very early on.
That's the exception, not the rule.

~~~
_delirium
_Beginner to intermediate just-about-anything isn't "fun" and won't inspire
feelings of "passion" or "love"._

I haven't found that to be universally true. Beginner to intermediate
programming is _really great_ , if you start it in a sensible way that
foregrounds some of why it's interesting up front, with enough tools to let
you make _something_ happen fairly soon. The first 30 minutes of playing with
Logo when I was in elementary school were amazingly eye-opening, and I
couldn't put it down for weeks! It was pretty awesome really, you could give
these commands to draw turtle graphics, and then change them to draw others,
and then learn new techniques to make fancier things, etc., etc.

Unfortunately I think most people approach programming less in the way Papert
was trying to promote, and more in the coding-death-march sort of way where
you take a high-school class that lectures about C++ syntax for weeks. The
hacker scene has a better angle on it, imo; plenty of first-time attendees at
places like SuperHappyDevHouse and Maker Faire see an inspiring side of
technology they missed in school.

------
sn0wBuM
This is ridiculous. The only useful thing is the suggestion to find what you
love. But the author says nothing about the path to finding what you love.
This isn't easy for everyone. There is a reason many people go through several
career changes in their lives.

Here is my view on self help. Self help is about trying to cultivate the
thoughts and processes for being the best version of your self. It's about
actively creating your own thoughts, motivations, actions, goals, dreams, etc.
There are a variety of ways for one to think about this stuff: books,
conversation, workshops, or self reflection. But it is valuable stuff.
Suggesting to forget all of this is horrible advice.

~~~
karjaluoto
It's a new blog, with lots of room to go. I'll touch upon that point in future
posts.

(Have to break these things up a little, you know?)

~~~
sn0wBuM
Sure, I think the main problem is the title of the post. "Forget Self
Improvement" a pretty broad statement for how little you say about one part of
self improvement. I suppose it served its part in creating controversy (and
views), but I wish bloggers didn't resort to this.

~~~
karjaluoto
It wasn't a stunt. It was a reaction. We're bombarded by means for becoming
"better" people. Perhaps it's time to instead ask, "why?"

~~~
sn0wBuM
I agree with this.. "why?" is the right question to ask before choosing to do
anything. But unless I'm mistaken, this isn't what your article is about.

~~~
karjaluoto
It's one part of a longer discussion. (Again, I try to break things up a
little.)

------
9diov
"You might consider simply finding what you love, and letting the rest take
care of itself" - Man, what a great advice. Let's apply it to relationship:
"You might consider simply finding Mr/Miss Right, and the rest take care of
itself".

How does that sound to you?

~~~
svdad
Exactly. There's a lot good about this post but this business of "finding what
you love" is meaningless. There is no one thing you love. Just like there is
no Mr/Mrs Right. The good advice in this blog is that the secret to succeeding
at something is to stop analyzing why you're failing and do it _as if_ you
love it, as if you're doing it because you love it. That also happens to be
the secret to a good relationship.

------
petercooper
_Self-help books and workshops arm us with ways to trick ourselves into doing
things we perhaps should, but generally don’t want, to do._

Maybe, but this is not true of Tony Robbins, one of the biggest in the
business. His technique is to get you to dig down into what outcomes you truly
desire and then redefine the emotional associations you have with the steps
necessary to reach them.

He assumes you already know what it is you love, but that you're not working
towards it because the steps required have either too many negative or not
enough positive emotional associations. It's not for everyone but it's been
excellent for me.

~~~
karjaluoto
There's actually some interesting stuff in what Tony says. Unfortunately, it's
such a machine that the core ideas get lost behind his (very successful)
business model.

~~~
vertr
He borrowed a great deal from NLP.

------
hoytie
I don't agree with this view of things. All creative acts take a certain
impetus to get off the ground, and it can take serious resolve to take that
initial step. Sometimes it feels like you're dragging ideas out kicking and
screaming, but eventually things start falling into place, but the process can
take determination. Finding what you love and being productive at it has a lot
to do with your willingness to face challenges and tedium.

Sure, there are times when I love the process of writing or programming or
creating in general. But sometimes you have to jump some hurdles to get in the
flow.

------
espeed
_True but one unmentioned problem: how to find the thing you love?_

What ideas do you find yourself thinking about when you catch your focus
drifting off onto something else?

Is it another project? Something specific? Or maybe a more abstract concept --
something that's been ruminating in the back of your mind for several years?

Whatever it is, explore it more deeply. This may guide you to your true
passion. Your true potential. If you're not passionate about something, it
will never consume you so it won't resonate in your mind long enough to find
true genius within it.

------
shadowmint
How is this the top of hacker news this morning?

It's not a hack.

I keep seeing 300-odd word articles which are totally irrelevant turn up with
'up vote me on hacker news!' links at the top. Dislike.

~~~
karjaluoto
If you're working on a startup, you should be thinking about things like this.
Particularly when you're working those long hours, it becomes important to ask
why you're doing it, and if it's still working.

At least that's my perspective. When I started in business (at 26 years of
age) the only thing I thought about was the work. In time, I learned that
while I still like what I do at the office, there are bigger questions to be
asked.

~~~
shadowmint
I'm cynical.

Having 'up vote me' links is SEO servitude.

If the author was serious about this stuff then a lifehacker style post about
how to do it in some cool cunning way is the way to go.

That article is generic advice, a 'read me!' title to the post and 0% content
or hack.

Dis. Like.

~~~
karjaluoto
I can understand why you'd be cynical. Perhaps the "up vote" function is over-
the-top. In my mind, though, it isn't that different from the Tweet and Like
buttons at the bottom. I just want to spread the word. (The more people that
read it, the better the discussion.)

As for the "0% content" part, I'd ask you to read a couple of other posts
before outright dismissing it. Perhaps from there you'll get a feel for
whether it's link-bait or something I believe to be important--and worthy of
broader attention.

~~~
vukk
"it isn't that different from the Tweet and Like buttons at the bottom"

Yea it is, it isn't a small button at the bottom. Also twitter and facebook
are already full of noise but HN isn't, it feels like you want to promote
noise in HN. Despite if this is what you want, that is what it feels like.

Every time somebody does this "vote me on HN" stuff, I wont if the content
isn't _really_ good and very, very clearly belongs to HN. It raises the bar
even higher.

------
groby_b
God, the usual "do only what you love" nonsense.

Newsflash: There's _nothing_ you will love all the time. _Everything_ has some
tedium. Suck it up, and get it done. Call it "self improvement" if you must.
But really, it's about having some willpower to get through the things you
must to achieve the things you want.

~~~
karjaluoto
Perhaps it's the "usual," but most of us still haven't learned it.

Willpower is useful, but not always the right thing. Many of those with
willpower stick with something long past it making sense to do so.

~~~
groby_b
The reason this upsets me: I see quite a few people flounder because they feel
they still haven't found what they love.

Because sooner or later, they _always_ hit that dull moment. And so they just
jump from one thing to the next, disappointed that they just can't get to that
mythical sweet spot everybody mumbles about.

I'm not saying willpower yourself through years of drudgery. I'm just saying
that there is _nothing_ that will you infallibly get out of bed and motivated
every single day of your life. There'll be dull spots, there'll be lulls,
there might even occasionally be a dull week or month.

If I read things like "The writer gives in to the joy of playing with words,
moving past the aggravation", I want to scream. The writer often struggles
with words, and occasionally _hates_ having chosen that profession. And yet
the good ones stay with it. Entrepreneurs notice long days, and they
occasionally wish they didn't have to suffer through them - but they're
compelled to _still_ build that vision. (And some days, the only thing that
compels them is knowing that their business might run into trouble if they
_don't_ go to work)

I've had the privilege to know world-class people in several different
professions. They _all_ occasionally hate all the hard work that goes into it,
but they continue it. Not because they "love" it, but because they're
compelled to excel at what they do, and they're already good at what they do.

What they love are those few, precious moments where they are at the peak of
their craft, and everything seems effortless. What they know is that you pay
with a lot of hard work for each of these moments.

------
drcube
Runners and writers got over the hump to get where they're at. They didn't
start out in tranquility and joy. It took some work to get to the point where
it's no longer work. Like an aquired taste, there's "aquired fun".

~~~
georgieporgie
I've read that rock climbers have a saying, "fun doesn't have to be fun."

(admittedly, I never heard that in five years of active climbing, but upon
hearing it I immediately understood it to be true)

------
alexh
Because people find this attitude so western, and entitled, I would like to
propose a slight change. Rather, I will propose some sound bytes, and
hopefully somebody else will express the sentiment eloquently.

Learn to love the process, not the results. Find your foe not in achieving
success, but in destroying the obstacles. You can't get anywhere if you cannot
motivate yourself to _go_ there.

Or something poetic like that. People should probably not assume that they
have the right to do what they love. What they should learn is to love what
they do.

------
zipdog
There's a lot to be said for habit for making tasks happen that are hard to
motivate. If you can spend a week consciously putting on running shoes every
morning before breakfast, then it gets easier to do it on other days. Key to
this is to break it down. Instead of a task being a single behemoth (run 5km),
it should be a series of small steps that by themselves are easier to take
(put on shoes by the bed), each leading onto the other.

~~~
karjaluoto
I agree. Creating habits and reducing obstacles makes a huge difference. For
some time, I just stopped buying bus passes, which "forced me" to walk to
work.

The nice part was that I was able to listen to podcasts on my walk, and this
resulted in a really nice way to start my day.

(It's a pity it got so rainy.)

------
lwhi
I think there's something to be said for following the path of least
resistance - but I also think that adversity is essential to growth.

------
omerta
This is a pretty awesome article, IMO. I agree not everyone is meant to be
incredibly "successful." Success is rather subjective. In the end, for most
people at least, the attainment of happiness is the ultimate goal of life. And
if that means being a lazy pothead or whatever it may be, why the hell not?

~~~
karjaluoto
Yes! In a way, some potheads have achieved "early retirement."

While some might not approve, their approval might not actually be that
relevant.

------
dreamdu5t
So what happens when you know what you love but can't do it?

This blog post assumes:

1) You know what you love to do.

2) What you love to do is profitable.

~~~
karjaluoto
This blog post asks:

1) Do you love what you do?

2) Could there be profit in what you love?

3) Is profit the most important question?

Deliberatism isn't about telling people what to do. It's about asking
questions in a fashion that might get people talking and coming up with their
own answers.

------
alan_cx
Um, that article is just another self improvement article. What these authors
never ever do is tell you how to actually get to the ideal place as it were.
All it does is lead to more frustration, defeats the point.

Do I have anything to offer? Nope. Sorry.

------
ronnoles
Let me get this straight. If you don't feel like doing something don't do it,
even if it's good for you.

Great. I'll start eating pizza three times a day, stop bathing, and jerk off
more.

I used to love HN, but this fake, new-age like philosophizing is getting
pretty tired.

~~~
nessus42
_Great. I'll start eating pizza three times a day, stop bathing, and jerk off
more_

While you seem to think that the OP is so obviously _false_ that it shouldn't
be said, I think that is so obviously true that it goes without saying.

It just seems utterly obvious to me that the greatest things are achieved by
people who are _driven_ to achieve the goal. Though that drive my not be
provided by _love_ for the process. Sometimes the drive might be provided by
obsession or compulsion or some other emotion.

It also seems obvious to me that you can't just _will_ yourself into having
this sort of drive. Though, for all I know, there may be techniques (e.g.,
hypnosis?) that might help with developing drive, it seems clear that if there
are such techniques, they are not uniformly known or effective. I certainly
think that trying to develop discipline is something that is essential, but
you're still going to have to have some innate drive too.

Unlike you, I didn't see anything in the OP that says that you should just do
_anything_ that you love to do, all other consideration be damned. It only
claimed that what you chose to do should be _something_ that you love. As I
said above, I would have thought this so obviously true as to go without
saying.

------
SonicSoul
i'm not sure if it's as simple as finding what you love. starting a company
comes with lots of things you must force yourself to do in order to achieve
the dream. just like getting a girl requires you to swallow your pride and
risk rejection. you may love to run, but not waking up every day at 6am to
practice for that marathon, even though the end result could be an experience
of a lifetime. the self help can be of great help in pushing you to work a
little harder towards your goal, and it does work. At least i can give it
credit for helping me identify and overcome some self limiting beliefs i
wasn't even aware i had.

------
oliverdamian
"There are two types of people in the world: lovers and the others; we don't
want to be part of the others".

------
danielson
"Self-improvement is masterbation."

~~~
jtheory
You'll need useful skills to do any good in the world.

Spelling, for instance, might prove useful if you need to gain the confidence
and the respect of others through written communication, in the pursuit of
your larger goals.

------
georgieporgie
I'm not certain I understand the author's point, but I think it might be in
keeping with what Strength's Finder 2.0[1] says. Basically: don't try to
improve your weaknesses, instead capitalize on your strengths.

[1] <http://www.strengthsfinder.com/home.aspx> (for the record, I heard about
it on HN, bought it, did the survey, and was a bit 'meh' about the results.
Basically, it told me I should be exactly what I already am, but I'm not happy
as I am, so it was a bit of a wash)

------
af3
I think people just stopped liking doing hard stuff. (Example: php blog vs
searching binary tree). Nowadays is more about memorizing and being "creative"
than thinking and problem solving.

~~~
karjaluoto
Creativity is thinking and problem solving.

~~~
af3
In the _ideal_ world - yes! in the world of media and social networks - no,
imho.

