
A game engine for building online adaptations of board and card games - SunTzu55
http://news.dice.com/2014/08/06/sourceforge-interview-new-game-engine/
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MisterBastahrd
The problem with Vassal and other engines like this is that they focus all of
their flexibility of solving the problem of playing a game, and virtually none
on helping someone streamline the interface for people who are actually trying
to play the game. The learning curve to use someone else's game is too high.
They are two separate problems and they each deserve adequate resources to
solve them.

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erikb
I don't really get what you mean. Can you give an example? Do you want the
game engine to unify the interface over many different games so that you can
switch from one game to another with less work?

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MisterBastahrd
I'd like users to be able to customize the controls and hide options that make
no sense for the function of the game they're playing. Perhaps a scriptable
user control interface that allows plugins for different game types would be a
more optimal solution. Granted, I haven't messed with Vassal in a while, but
the last time I used it, it was just a mess that would take longer to explain
how to use than it would to explain the rules of a brand new game.

~~~
uckelman
Our experience has been that the two things you're asking for---a shallow
learning curve for learning to use a game's UI and a UI customized for each
game---aren't compatible in practice. We arguably have the latter, a UI
customized for each game, right now and it generates no end of confusion
because users expect the UI not to change completely between game X and game
Y. If you give the module designer broad freedom to alter the UI, then what
you get are differences in game UI between games which are down to the
designers being different people more than differences between the games
themselves.

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egonschiele
Initially I thought this was just a framework that provided graphics +
networking for building board games, but you still had to code all the board
game logic yourself. Then I read "you don't have to be a programmer to write a
module". How does this work, then? Is it aimed at providing a framework for a
common set of games, like euro-style board games?

I had written a dominion simulator[1] a few months back. It took some thinking
on how to handle some action cards (like playing a throne room on a throne
room). I'm curious how Vassal would handle something like that.

[1]
[https://github.com/egonschiele/dominion](https://github.com/egonschiele/dominion)

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elemeno
VASSAL is basically a virtual board - it wasn't really designed to do any form
of rules enforcement, but rather handle the physical aspects of a board game.
Given that translating game rules into software is often a daunting task,
that's probably for the best!

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bhz
I'll start watching this too. I have also been watching the
[http://roll20.net/](http://roll20.net/) guys for a while now too. It's good
to see more and more things like this coming about.

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avolcano
There's a game on Steam called Tabletop Simulator with similar goals, but with
the added bonus of a 3D playing space (including physics):
[http://store.steampowered.com/app/286160/](http://store.steampowered.com/app/286160/)

Obviously a different sort of project (commercial & proprietary), but still an
interesting one.

~~~
cschneid
Tabletop simulator doesn't implement any rules. It is a physics sandbox with
the focus on game related physics. It's a ton of fun to play with, and
infinitely flexible, since there's no coding of rules. It does have specific
coding for cards, dice, and a few other things, but no game rules.

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mcphage
Most VASSAL modules don't, either.

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andrey-p
This is excellent. This may finally get my friend and I to finish prototyping
that board game idea we've had for ages.

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nnnnni
It's perfect for that! The BattleCON guys do it...

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jimmcslim
What do board game designers (and publishers) feel about this... I assume that
it is relatively easy for IP to be ripped off, does the Vassal community self-
police this? Or is it more a case of there are no sales lost due to the
existence of copycat modules in Vassal since if you actually want to play the
board game with friends in close proximity, you'll actually just buy the damn
board game :-)

But I could potentially see lost sales of tablet implementations of board
games; although those almost always codify the specific rules and logic of the
game so again quite different to Vassal.

Like for example, Carcassonne:
[http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Carcassonne](http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Carcassonne)

~~~
uckelman
Many, many games published these days have a VASSAL module available before
they go to press because game designers are using VASSAL for playtesting. In
the wargaming world, there are publishers which actively promote the existence
of VASSAL modules for their games (GMT and MMP are the two big ones which come
to mind, though there are others as well), some which are indifferent, and a
few which are opposed. The impression I get is that the availability of VASSAL
modules increases sales for publishers which aren't in opposition to it.

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tharri
VASSAL rules. Board game designers like myself even use it for playtesting. I
can't wait for v4.

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jonstewart
Joel Uckelman's a colleague of mine (we write computer forensics software for
our dayjob). He's on vacation in Wales for the next few days, but I'll direct
him towards this thread when he's back online.

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blue1
My experience is that for wargames it works nicely. For other games, there are
some really awful modules out there. I once tried a game – can't remember the
name now – that in physical form it is usually played in about 45 minutes.
With Vassal, it took almost four hours, despite the fact that we were all in
voice conference with skype. It was extremely clumsy, a quite horrible user
experience.

Ed.: I think it was Citadels, aka Ohne Furcht Und Adel

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caio1982
I wonder if I could put together a hacked version of Supremacy (Risk-like with
a nuclear and economical twist) using it. That would totally make the child
inside of me REALLY happy. Checking it out now!

EDIT:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacy_(board_game)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacy_\(board_game\))

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chew827
There are an astounding number of modules for VASSAL. The article calls it "a
new engine" or whatever but it's been around forever.

[http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Supremacy](http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Supremacy)

~~~
caio1982
Holy bananas! Thank you!

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EvanKelly
Awesome! One of my many unfinished projects was a networked version of The
Russian Campaign so that my dad and I could play together.

Looks like there's a Vassal module and we can finally get those games going.

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po
This kind of reminded me of WolFire's Desparate Gods which I think they made
for a quick game jam. It's a different take and a bit silly because it's
actually a complete simulation of a board game. It's really more up to the
players to enforce the rules.

[http://www.wolfire.com/desperate-gods](http://www.wolfire.com/desperate-gods)

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thisjepisje
Related, and quite old:

[http://www.zillions-of-games.com/](http://www.zillions-of-games.com/)

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sbarg
Also, this is a great example of an open source project that is adaptable to
many different uses.

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archon
Are there uses for the engine other than just board games?

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andrey-p
Given the breadth and variety of board and card games there are, I'd say this
is pretty versatile already.

Though, having given it a quick try, it seems like it's a pretty powerful
engine. I'm sure someone has used it for purposes other than the intended one.

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jameshart
While it seems somewhat appropriate that an article about a boardgame engine
should appear on a website called 'dice.com', I'm not entirely sure why it's
there. It seems to be basically a reblog of SourceForge's August product of
the month interview[1], being spun as something to interest people in game dev
jobs on Dice.

[1] [http://sourceforge.net/blog/august-2014-project-of-the-
month...](http://sourceforge.net/blog/august-2014-project-of-the-month-vassal-
engine/)

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JackFr
You'd also think that for being project of the month and all, there would
actually be a link to the SourceForge project. I looked hard and ended up
having to use the search box to get to it.

