
Stripe Atlas for LLCs - pc
https://stripe.com/blog/atlas-llc?c
======
nodesocket
> Is organized in Delaware, the jurisdiction of choice for many new LLCs.

Be aware that if you are "doing business" in California which means you live
there you also have to file as a California foreign entity and pay the absurd
anti-small business flat tax of $800 a year.

This also does not include your state income tax liabilities in California.
Just because the LLC is formed in Delaware does not mean you don't have to pay
income taxes in the state you reside. Delaware is just the legal residence,
has nothing to do with income taxes.

I moved to Tennessee in January and switched my single-member disregarded
entity LLC from California to Tennessee. The annual fee in Tennessee is $400
vs $800 and there is NO STATE INCOME tax in beautiful TN.

~~~
ryanSrich
CA in general makes absolutely no sense to start a business in. There are zero
arguments for starting a business in CA. Oregon, Washington, Texas, Colorado,
etc. are all objectively better choices. Even if you're interested in raising
money from SV investors you're far better off locating in Seattle, Denver,
Portland, Austin, etc.

~~~
Meekro
I definitely agree with you that there are better states than California, but
I recently moved my online company from California to Texas and discovered a
really nasty surprise: Texas considers web hosting, server rental, SaaS, etc.
to be services subject to sales tax [1]. Washington actually does as well,
since you mentioned it.

This will complicate your life in two ways: First, your internet company now
has to enumerate subscribers in the same state as you and charge them sales
tax. Your competitors, located in friendlier territories, can undercut you by
not having to do this.

Second, any payments you make to a SaaS/hosting vendor are now subject to use
tax. Do you pay AWS for hosting every month? Get ready to cough up ~6% of that
for Texas' treasury. If you're running the kind of business where your hosting
bill will grow proportionally to your revenue, this amounts to a tax on
revenue. In my case, it wildly exceeds anything California ever charged me in
income tax.

[1] [https://blog.taxjar.com/saas-sales-tax/](https://blog.taxjar.com/saas-
sales-tax/)

~~~
lenjaffe
> this amounts to a tax on revenue.

Corporations wanted to be people. People pay income taxes on their revenue,
not their profits.

~~~
20after4
What about deductions?

------
freehunter
Damn, I was hoping for this about 6 months ago, I ended up filing my own
paperwork instead. It was actually easier and cheaper than I thought for my
state (Michigan). $50 and like five lines on a form. I even got my own EID
completely online in about 10 minutes, and a bank account at my local small
business bank the same day.

But just like with Stripe Atlas for C-Corps, what you're paying for isn't the
paperwork and the filing fees, it's the access to lawyers and tax help and the
network of other founders. It's Stripe's experience, and help for people who
aren't in the US. I'd say it's worth it because to be honest I have no idea
what my company's responsibilities for taxes are and yeah that makes me a
little uneasy.

~~~
gk1
> I'd say it's worth it because to be honest I have no idea what my company's
> responsibilities for taxes are and yeah that makes me a little uneasy.

Yikes. You should get an accountant. Ask for referrals from other businesses
in your area that are similar to yours. Ask your local co-working spaces or
incubators. Google...

~~~
freehunter
Yup, I'm working with an accountant to better understand what's going on. Last
year I was in a grace period but this year I'm going to have to file. Luckily
it's just me, no employees and no cofounder to worry about. But man tax law is
complicated and I don't like not knowing _every_ part of what I'm doing.

~~~
patio11
Part of the reason I started working at Stripe is that I remember going
through _exactly_ this and it freaking sucked. Building a product and finding
customers for it is hard enough without also having to cross-class as an
expert in international taxes of software sales.

(Drop us a line if you need a referral to an accountant; we can introduce you
to an accountancy that works with a lot of Internet businesses. We also have
some guides about it at
[https://stripe.com/atlas/guides](https://stripe.com/atlas/guides) to
demystify it a bit.)

~~~
mikeleeorg
Out of curiosity, are you guys thinking of something like an UpCounsel for
startup/technology-focused accountants?

~~~
patio11
We have a number of accounting firms which we work with that we refer Atlas
customers to. This lets us explain the Atlas concept once, prepare the firms
for "You're going to have a high volume of companies who will often have the
same set of issues so let's research and brief those in advance", build out
tools to assist with information gathering, etc.

It also lets us help refer companies to accountancies whose sweet spot most
closely corresponds to the facts of the company.

------
tptacek
This is all very cool. But: don't operate a multi-partner company in any form,
LLC or C-Corp, without formal vesting. Companies without vesting are rigged to
explode if any member leaves.

~~~
patio11
Context for folks who haven't encountered vesting before: vesting is an
arrangement where, instead of getting all of your ownership up front, you earn
it over time. For example, you might have a fairly common arrangement in
Silicon Valley where you get 1/4 of your equity after working for a year and
the remaining 3/4 over the next 3 years. This pre-commits to what happens
regarding ownership if someone leaves 18 months (or 18 days) into running the
company.

Atlas C corporations with multiple founders have a vesting schedule built-in
(4 year vesting; 1 year cliff), the market standard in Silicon Valley.

Vesting in an LLC is complicated:

Because an LLC is a partnership, there can be complicated consequences of
someone stepping back from an operational role (like e.g. being a founder) but
remaining an owner of the business. We didn't think it was appropriate to have
a one-size-fits-all answer for this: some companies might choose to buy out
the departing founder, some might choose to pay them dividends on an ongoing
fashion, and some might not have financial bandwidth to pay dividends but
might want them to participate in upside in the event of a future acquisition.

Conversely, adopting vesting establishes some fairly substantial tax
consequences (83(b) elections, etc).

This is heavily dependent on facts-and-circumstances.

Vesting is more of an established concept, with off-the-shelf support
throughout the ecosystem, for C corporations. For those who want it in an LLC,
please speak to an attourney. You can still adopt it for your Stripe Atlas
LLC, it just isn't built in to the default experience.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Because an LLC is a partnership

An LLC is _not_ a partnership. (A limited liability partnership is an LLP.) An
LLC is a distinct business structure with some similarities to a corporation,
some to a partnership, and some unique features.

~~~
matthewmcg
He's referring to the fact that, by default, the United States taxes LLCs
having more than one member as a partnership. An interest in a partnership is
taxed differently than an interest in a corporation (stock).

~~~
heavenlyhash
citation, since I have it open: [https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-
businesses-self-employe...](https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-
self-employed/single-member-limited-liability-companies)

> Specifically, a domestic LLC with at least two members is classified as a
> partnership for federal income tax purposes unless [...etc...]

(To grandparent comment: for what it's worth, I too find it highly confusing
that "partnership" and "LLP" (vs LL _C_ ) are both terms and not as closely
related as one might first suspect...)

~~~
dragonwriter
> for what it's worth, I too find it highly confusing that "partnership" and
> "LLP" (vs LLC) are both terms and not as closely related as one might first
> suspect...

They are just as closely related as one might suspect: an LLP is a partnership
where the partners enjoy limited liability.

An LLC is not a partnership, though multimember LLCs are, by default, treated
like a partnership for federal income tax purposes.

(The LLC is a fairly new form of business entity originally created as a lower
overhead alternative to the corporation that would provide a distinct entity
for corporate joint ventures; the LLP is also fairly new, but [in its US form]
it was formed to protect innocent members of professional firms from personal
liability for actions of other members of the firms, and is in many
jurisdictions restricted to professional firms.)

LPs and LLLPs make things even more fun, though.

------
inertial
Relevant for non-residents / foreign owned LLC :

[https://onlinetaxman.com/us-llc-tax-haven-for-
foreigners/](https://onlinetaxman.com/us-llc-tax-haven-for-foreigners/)

 _If you don’t have a dependent agent that substantially furthers your
business in the US and don’t have an office in the US, you are not subject to
US tax. Even if the LLC generates income in the US, the income is not taxed in
the US._

 _Furthermore, if you reside in a country with an applicable tax treaty with
the US, then you would not be subject to US tax. Since you reside in your tax
home, you can claim you operate a “permanent establishment” (e.g., an office
or other fixed place of business) in your home country._

~~~
sireat
When does it makes sense for a European to start a Delaware LLC?

Let's say you have a lifestyle side-business and many clients in US.

Where is the legal tax avoidance here?

You still have to report the pass-through income to your home country.

You can't just keep the money in the LLC and delay the tax?

Maybe you want to buy 10 servers in US to be used and shipped home to Europe
to be used for the same business.

Would you be able to deduct those kind of expenses?

PS I had a vanity Delaware C Corp in in the 90s which I did absolutely nothing
with besides getting all the cool corporate knick knacks.

~~~
inertial
There are many countries where Stripe etc. aren't available. Starting an LLC
in USA is an easy route to get that going albeit at additional compliance cost
(e.g. filing informational returns). The article above clarifies that a
foreign owned LLC with no income connected with US doesn't have to pay taxes
in US. They just have to pay tax in their home country. It makes it more
appealing & easier to start an LLC.

------
mechwarrior
This looks like a great service!

For my state (NY), I am required to register an out of state LLC (a "foreign"
LLC [1]) before conducting business in NY. Is this registration or assistance
with this registration included?

[1] [https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-qualify-
foreign-...](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-qualify-foreign-
business-new-york.html)

~~~
icelancer
This is likewise required in WA.

------
zawerf
Is the LLC anonymous by default? For privacy reasons, not legal. I know I can
still get subpoenaed. I just don't want my name/address associated with the
company on anything public.

It seems to do this I will need a lawyer to be my registered agent for mail
forwarding (a regular mail forwarding service such as
[https://www.virtualpostmail.com/services/registered-
agent/](https://www.virtualpostmail.com/services/registered-agent/) was
apparently not enough since it doesn't have attorney-client protection). That
was as far as I got when I last tried to start a LLC for my side project.

~~~
xapata
Delaware ain't the Caribbean.

~~~
zawerf
I didn't understand the Caribbean reference which led me down a pretty fun
rabbit hole trying to figure out how that world works. Apparently it's fairly
common to incorporate in British Virgin Islands (and a few others like Cayman
islands, Bahamas, or Panama) for international companies.

I was sincerely asking about it because of privacy and not tax reasons though.

~~~
xapata
To clarify: Many countries allow "anonymous associations", which provide
privacy and the side effect of enabling tax evasion.

------
patio11
Hiya folks! I worked with the team on this; happy to answer any questions you
have.

~~~
kentt
I appreciate the advice you've given through your blog and podcast. Thanks for
taking the time to create those things. They've been inspiring.

I'm wonder if a US LLC would be better for me? I'm a mISV in Canada. I use
Stripe & PayPal and make almost enough to live on. I have a US bank account
but Canadian everything else (sole proprietorship, business license, tax id,
citizenship, etc.). I don't plan on ever being funded, selling the business,
taking on partners or making more than a 150k/yr.

~~~
veesahni
A Canadian sole proprietorship is about as simple as it gets, since you can
file taxes on your T1 and business income just passes through to you. Stripe
can also transfer USD straight to a USD account at a Canadian bank.

Any kind of corporation (US or Canadian) is much more effort, both from legal
and accounting perspectives. It's worth it if you need legal protections a
corporation gives you or care for some of the tax advantages. But it comes at
the cost of extra effort in managing the complexities if a corporation.

------
gk1
Before doing this, be sure to read your home state's requirements for
registering out-of-state LLCs. You'll likely be required to file annual
paperwork and fees in your home state, thus possibly counteracting any
convenience you _thought_ you were getting by registering in Delaware.

Or consult with an accountant, many of whom offer free first-time
consultations.

------
philip1209
> Is designed to make conversion to a C Corporation as simple as possible. (We
> can connect Stripe Atlas users to a lawyer to manage the conversion process
> with discounted, flat-rate packages).

This is the most important part. LLCs tend to be cheaper and more flexible
before you raise money, but a C-Corp is basically necessary to raise money.
Converting an LLC to C-Corp conversion is often quoted at about $10K from a
law firm. With Stripe Atlas, you are set up to make the conversion easily.

~~~
patio11
$10k isn't the high end, either.

~~~
throw9991999
Any ballpark figure on how much it costs with Atlas?

~~~
patio11
Starts at $500. We can't quote a firm price because you can do things in the
company (it is your company, after all) which make it more complicated. There
are an infinite number of contracts that a company could hypothetically sign,
some of which have interesting implications for conversion. Those contracts
have to be read and interpreted; that isn't going to be free for a lawyer.

------
ssijak
I am not a USA resident, I live in Europe (not EU zone). What would be my tax
obligations to the USA if I had LLC formed through Atlas for a purpose of
software SAS business (selling software subscriptions worldwide)? I know I
would be obliged to pay income taxes in my country, but I don`t know if and
what would I need to pay regarding taxes to the USA.

~~~
gamblor956
You generally need to talk to a tax lawyer about this, but in a nutshell:

You could owe tax to the state in which you incorporate, if they tax LLC
income earned out of state. (Most states don't, but you will have a "minimum
franchise tax" that you must pay regardless of LLC income for the privilege of
being registered in their state.)

You generally would owe US federal income tax on the income you earn from your
US customers. But, in many cases you could qualify for tax treaty benefits
that reduce your US tax liability to zero. You would still need to file a US
tax return, but you would not actually pay US taxes. (Your tax return would
explain why you don't need to pay.)

You would generally be taxed on the income in your home country. Despite
common belief, almost all countries tax the worldwide income of citizens
residing in their country. (Territorial taxation is generally reserved for
corporations and expatriates.)

------
rolleiflex
Heads up, if you’re not a US citizen, Azlo (the underlying checking account
provider they use) doesn’t let you open an account. I’m not sure if they have
a special deal with Stripe that lets you through, but they definitely don’t
let their regular customers through without a US passport.

~~~
wbmstrmjb
Hi @rolleiflex, this is not exactly correct. You do not need a passport to
sign up for Azlo. It certainly is accepted as a form of identification, but
not the only one. Also, we will be accepting both resident aliens and non-
resident aliens this month!

~~~
challenge
@wbmstrmjb Just tried to sign up as nra a few days ago. It told me it was not
available. Also sadly I forgot the password and now can't even recover it
because it complains that there's no verified phone number (???), it never
asked for one as the procedure failed as soon I selected a different country
than USA.

~~~
challenge
nvm got answer from support.

------
gk1
Before doing this, be sure to read your home state's requirements for
registering out-of-state LLCs. You might still be required to file annual
paperwork and fees in your home state, thus possibly counteracting any
convenience you thought you were getting by registering in Delaware.

Or consult with an accountant, many of whom offer free first-time
consultations.

~~~
zrail
I believe every state requires you to register your business in that state if
you have a tax nexus there. California is particularly onerous about this,
requiring LLCs to register and pay a minimum $800 franchise tax every year.

------
chrisweekly
S-Corp always seems to get short shrift compared to LLC. I live in MA, where I
registered my S-Corp, and it simply costs less, w/ no downside. Do your
research (or, better, ask your accountant) before following the herd! :)

~~~
nodesocket
There is downside to S-Corps. Lots more regulatory requirements, minutes, and
tax forms required. As a general rule of thumb assuming you are a single
person company it doesn't make sense unless profits are greater than at a
minimum of $150,000 a year. At that level you can pay yourself a "reasonable"
salary say $80,000 and then lump dividend for the rest which is taxed at 15%.

~~~
chrisweekly
"unless profits are greater than at a minimum of $150,000 a year."

Ok, sure. Similarly, an LLC is probably overkill if you're making under $100k.
I'd argue it's a minority of entrepreneurial software consultants who make
over $100 but under $150. Finding a good accountant to help you figure it out
(and to handle the paperwork) is also likely to help you join the S-Corp
cohort.

~~~
brianwawok
You just setup a straw-man.

No one else agrees LLC is overkill if making under 100k profit. I would in
fact encourage LLC from day 1 for anyone making anything.

(and just auto converting to S-Corp at 150k is also silly, talk to an
accountant. Many reasons to be a LLC even if making millions of dollars a
year, see many real estate LLCs or companies with 100-1000 employees but still
a LLC)

------
sheeshkebab
It sounded right until $500 part... llc setup cost is $50, bank accounts,
stripe accounts are all free, same goes for any “credits” from aws and
elsewhere.

I understand the desire to turn a profit on this, but that’s kind of
overboard, IMO.

~~~
gk1
It's roughly in line (albeit on the high end) with what RocketLawyer and other
do-it-yourself companies charge. Yes they are all more expensive than _truly_
doing it yourself (as in, printing forms from the local gov site and mailing
them), but you're paying for convenience and the increased likelihood of
getting the paperwork done right.

------
danbtl
What would be the combined fed+state corporate income tax rate for a Delaware
LLC?

Quick google says this is 21% (federal) + 8.7% (Delaware). Is my understanding
of this correct, that a Delaware LLC pays 29.7% taxes on its profits?

~~~
Saaster
Unless you have presence in Delaware (offices or employees), you don't pay
corporate income taxes there just because you formed as Delware LLC or C Corp.
You pay a nominal franchise tax, and you're taxed in the other state(s) you
operate in.

~~~
jahewson
Yep. An LLC* is not taxed as a corporation unless it chooses to be, by default
it is taxed as a sole proprietorship (and so the owner would pay income tax).
This is known as a disregarded entity” at the federal level.

Also watch out for franchise taxes - if you live in California it’s $800/yr
minimum.

* Edit: a single-member LLC

~~~
nodesocket
Pretty sure you can only be a "disregarded entity" (schedule-c) with a single
member LLC. Beyond that is get's more complicated.

~~~
jahewson
Yes, that’s right. Good point!

~~~
jkaplowitz
You can choose to be taxed as a corporation even in that case, but it's
usually not worth the tradeoffs.

------
spamross
Why Delaware over Wyoming? Wyoming has no corporate income tax and lower fees.

~~~
foobaw
This! Delaware is simply the choice for most because of conventions,
marketing, and (legal) history. The ideal choice should be Wyoming in my
humble opinion.

~~~
woolvalley
Why wyoming vs nevada

~~~
prklmn
It’s cheaper

~~~
zrail
If the annual renewal cost of your business entity is a dominating factor of
where you're going to site the entity, you should probably be thinking
strongly about whether you should be forming an entity at all.

------
mechwarrior
I am particularly interested in the liability protection provided by an LLC
(selling physical products).

How much legally grounded advice is provided as a part of the service about
how to avoid activities that could make the corporate veil easier to pierce in
the event of a lawsuit?

I've heard anecdotally about doing a good job of keeping business and personal
accounts completely separate, for example. This is the type of advice that I
would typically lean on a lawyer for, but it seems could be easily provided as
a part of this service.

~~~
patio11
We're not lawyers and we cannot licitly give legal advice, but part of the
service is that we can introduce you to lawyers. We do have guides about
topics including that topic specifically; you can find them at
[https://stripe.com/atlas/guides](https://stripe.com/atlas/guides) ; I can't
remember which one addresses that issue off the top of my head.

------
tnorthcutt
I'll soon need to move an LLC from Texas to Colorado. Should I instead
consider shutting down my Texas LLC and forming a new one with Stripe Atlas?
Would there be any benefit to this?

------
brianwawok
Nice, this is why I didn't use Atlas despite being offered a beta slot.

I ended up forming a local state LLC. This is still delaware LLC, which seems
an extra hoop for (potentially dubious consult your lawyer) gain... but still
good to see them going this direction.

That send - end to end to form a LLC in the state of Indiana, it took about a
half day and $250. I do not need to file anything in delaware or deal with my
company as a foreign entity or any of the extra stuff you would get going this
route.

------
shubidubi
I recently opened an LLC in NYC for $200 and took me less than an hour. All I
did is to follow the (free) instructions here
([https://www.llcuniversity.com/new-york-
llc/](https://www.llcuniversity.com/new-york-llc/)), was super simple and
worth it. Opening a business account took me less than an hour and nowadays
you can do it online.

~~~
burntwater
The New York State fee by itself is $200. Unless I'm missing something, you
paid significantly more than that for the publication requirement (it was
around $1,000, give or take a couple hundred, last I checked).

------
artur_makly
Re: SVB bank I heard you can’t even get a debit card. What other restrictions
are there? Is it only good for using Stripe and nothing else?

------
sachitgupta
@Patio11 - I recently moved from California to Florida and I'm about to open
an LLC here.

What are the advantages / disadvantages of having an LLC based in Delaware vs
creating one in Florida?

I'd love to use Stripe Atlas - but not sure if I'm making things more
complicated than they need to be by opening in Delaware vs Florida.

~~~
gamblor956
If you don't plan on trying to raise VC money, then a local LLC is preferable
to a Delaware LLC in 99.999999% of business cases.

Or another way to put it: if don't plan to do business outside of Florida, why
would you subject yourself to the laws and jurisdiction of another state just
to save a few bucks?

~~~
sachitgupta
> If you don't plan on trying to raise VC money, then a local LLC is
> preferable to a Delaware LLC in 99.999999% of business cases.

Well, I do have clients and customers outside FL - lots of them. Does that
make a difference?

~~~
gamblor956
It depends on where you plan on doing work for those clients.

~~~
sachitgupta
Mostly in FL but I also travel a bunch cause I'm remote.

------
vioyul
Thanks Patrick. I've heard of Atlas recently and am seriously considering it.
I was simply wondering if you provide any tax advice for people living in
different countries but who own a Delaware LLC (or C-Corp) through Atlas?

------
kureikain
Anyone know what is the total cost of Striple Atlas? What others cost beside
the $500 one time fee? Will really appreciated some breakdown numbers

~~~
patio11
[https://stripe.com/atlas](https://stripe.com/atlas) Ctrl-F for "ongoing
costs"

It's impossible to give you a fully inclusive quote without knowing more of
your situation, and I'm not qualified to comment on e.g. tax consequences for
you if you live outside the United States, but broadly speaking the total cost
of ownership ranges from about $1k to about $2k depending on circumstances (C
corp vs LLC, number of founders, whether founders are US-based or not, etc).
This includes annual costs for Delaware taxes but doesn't include e.g.
corporate or personal income taxes.

~~~
tnorthcutt
FYI, there seems to be some disparity on two different pages:

On [https://stripe.com/atlas](https://stripe.com/atlas): _Delaware tax filing:
preparation is free, Delaware fee starts at $225_

On [https://stripe.com/docs/atlas/tax-
obligations](https://stripe.com/docs/atlas/tax-obligations): _All LLCs formed
or registered in Delaware must pay an annual LLC tax, currently at a flat rate
of $300.00._

~~~
patio11
Thanks; will correct.

------
blahman2000
@patio11 does the LLC package come with a DUNS number?

~~~
patio11
It doesn't, but we help people get them on an ad hoc basis.

Mind if I make a guess? You're probably wondering "Can I get a DUNS number so
that I can list something on the App Store?" if you're like 90% of people who
ask us this. If so, let me just tell you now what we'd tell you in the future:

> My most recent understanding is that if they’re using the DUNS number as a
> part of the Apple Developer program, we should recommend that they email
> appdeveloper@dnb.com and they will advise you how to apply for your
> situation. Just let them know that you’re representing a US company trying
> to get a DUNS number but that you’re headquartered in [country outside of
> the US if that’s an additional consideration].

~~~
SeanLockItUp
Not OP but that's my only use case for the DUNS number.

Are you saying we may not need it? Or that there's an expedited / cheaper way
if we're just getting it for that sole purpose?

------
antaviana
If the US company is going to be a fully owned child company of another EU
company, which is most suitable, a C Corporation or an LLC and why?

~~~
patio11
We do not support LLCs as subsidiary of other companies, for reasons. We do
support that use case for C corporations. There are complicated tax issues
involved here; an accountant can talk you through them.

~~~
antaviana
Isn’t Google LLC a subsidiary of Alphabet Inc?

~~~
patio11
Google has some issues that you and I probably do not, and has some lawyers
and accountants that you and I probably do not. Thankfully, we don't have to
build a product which seemlessly works for this Google; we just have to build
one which seemlessly works for the next Google.

------
annerajb
I wish atlas allow transferring over our Delaware c Corp to them. They
launched around 3 months after we incorporated :(

------
scollins
If I'm not a resident of US and didn't visit US in a tax year, would I have to
pay US income tax for the LLC?

~~~
patio11
Owning a US LLC as a non-resident can be complicated; it depends on a variety
of circumstances regarding what you do, how your business interacts with the
US market, whether you are a US citizen, where you live, etc. You may wish to
speak to an accountant.

~~~
evla
Would it be easier to own a C Corp as a non-resident? Does Atlas provide that
as well?

~~~
patio11
We do provide C corporations. It was the first option we launched with, and a
core goal of that was supporting non-US founders.

------
cvaidya1986
If I want to release a bunch of different projects under the same company name
which one is better LLC or C Corp?

~~~
patio11
Either supports that use case; the decision is typically driven by other
considerations. I wrote a guide about them:
[https://stripe.com/atlas/guides/llc-vs-c-
corp](https://stripe.com/atlas/guides/llc-vs-c-corp)

------
fiatjaf
Apparently Stripe Atlas is being used by and tailored for US residents only,
which is odd.

~~~
patio11
We have thousands of users in over 125 countries, and do substantial amounts
of work to ensure that we're making our services available as widely as
possible.

If there is a particular thing you'd want to improve the service for folks
outside the US, I'd love to hear about it -- feel free to email me at my HN
name at stripe.com

------
allochthon
Looks like you have to have a Web site up and running to be invited to the
preview.

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jlongster
Does this support converting an existing LLC into one that Atlas would set up?

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EGreg
No. I asked them. They said

 _We 're still in the growing phases and constantly looking for ways to expand
and improve, but I'm afraid, the Atlas program is only accessible as a package
deal._

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zrail
This is pretty exciting. $500 is a great deal for an LLC with a fully vetted
operating agreement suited for an internet company as well as a bank account
out of the box.

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billconan
Can I be taxed as a s corp with stripe atlas?

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patio11
An LLC can elect to be taxed as an S Corp. We're happy to introduce all Atlas
companies to accountants; this is something you can ask them to do for you.

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sheeshkebab
I think parent meant a C Corp with automated IRS tax election for S Corp...
not llc.

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gk1
Why do you think so? LLCs can elect to be taxed as S-Corps, and this thread is
about LLCs...

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prklmn
If you want to run a remotely lean organization, spending $500 to incorporate
your LLC is not starting off on the right foot.

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wpietri
Sorry, but lean and cheap aren't synonyms.

As an example, a pal once worked for some medium-sized company where if you
wanted a new pencil, you go down to the basement and through a long hallway to
a window. At the window you had to confront the Dragon of the Office Supply
Horde, and to prove your worthiness, you had to bring a sufficiently used
existing pencil. That company was definitely cheap, but was very much not
lean.

Toyota, on the other hand, is the classic lean company. When they don't need
to build cars, they don't lay people off or send them home, which would be the
cheap thing to do. Instead, they have them clean, polish, train, and generally
improve the plants and themselves. They spent extraordinary sums building the
_first_ Prius prototype, which could barely get around a track. But they kept
on improving it, eventually making one of the world's best-selling cars and
making them a leader in a new market.

Spending $500 to incorporate a startup may not be _cheap_ , but it certainly
can be lean if you determine that the investment in learning how to correctly
do the legal and financial dance will not have as much ROI as paying for it to
happen and focusing instead on building the actual business.

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HIPisTheAnswer
Liability can not be limited. Someone is either liable or not.

