

Ask HN: Asking what you did wrong in an interview? - sown

I've only tried this a few times and I seem to get silence in return.<p>This is only after the phone interview; after I get a "Thanks but no thanks" email I've asked in polite terms why I got passed over. I've heard back only once out of the few times I've done it and I felt that it really was a kind of hard decision for them to make.<p>Is it impolite? Is it a legal concern? Do they not like me that much? What?
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jamesladd
The times I have asked I have not received a response or the response I got
was generic and dismissive, rather than helpful which is what I was hoping
for.

I'm guessing the lack of a response is because:

1\. They don't feel they have to justify their decision. 2\. They don't want
to get into a dispute/nit-pick. 3\. They are just bad hirers and don't know
how to provide adequate feedback. 4\. They are trying to hire someone, not
help people they are not hiring.

Conversely, when I have turned down an offer those companies have never asked
me why.

\- James.

~~~
toomuchcoffee
Yeah. It's really just a kind of a protocol. A game with quirky rules, but
which we kind of have to play anyway.

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blakdawg
I would not engage in this conversation with an interviewee if someone asked
me that question. It sounds like an invitation to an argument or a lawsuit.

Chances are it's not something you did _wrong_ , it's just that other people
who had the same phone interview seemed like better candidates to move to the
next level of screening.

If you want feedback on your phone interview, have a friend/colleague sit in
the room with you and listen to your side of the conversation - or, more
likely to be illegal, record the conversation and have someone you trust
listen to it afterwards.

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toomuchcoffee
Whatever "it" is, it's _way_ more about them than it is about you.

It hurts, but the best thing really is to just take your lumps, and try to
detach yourself from the the idea that the rushed, off-the-cuff judgements
that utter _strangers_ make of you in the heat of the most awkward of social
contexts imaginable has any relation to you as person.

That is to say: _do_ take inventory of what happened, and do try to learn from
the situation and do better next time... but please don't take it "inside" you
as a person.

Life is just way too short for that.

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angdis
You're not likely to get it from the hiring manager or the people which
interviewed you. However, if you went through a recruiter and have good
rapport with him/her, you may be able to get answers to your questions about
"why" and what their reservations were. Whether or not this knowledge
_actually_ helps you in the future is another, perhaps more interesting,
question.

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codeonfire
If someone tells you the one or two tiny things you did wrong, you will just
fix those two tiny things and interview again and maybe make it through
instead of building the broad skills necessary that would have made those two
things non-issues.

For instance, if your resume says something like that you want to be CEO
within five years, the interviewer could tell you that they can't take you
seriously. You will just fix your resume and reapply to some other job.
However, all that telling you accomplishes is that there is now a person out
there that has completely unrealistic expectations but knows not to put it on
his or her resume.

------
russtrpkovski
Large companies have canned responses and HR coaches interviewers to avoid
providing direct feedback. Given the liability of someone providing
inappropriate feedback, don't expect a candid answer. Good luck!

~~~
JamesVI
This isn't actually true for all companies.

At my (large) company HR only gets involved once a decision to hire has been
made. They make sure the background check is performed, vet the offer to make
sure it is within guidelines (or the guidelines have been waived by someone In
Charge) and then handle the huge volume of paperwork that must be signed in
order to formally accept the offer.

Following on-site interviews the hiring manager will collect and sanitize
feedback from all the interviewers to give to the candidate. Sometimes the
message is something generic, like "not a good fit" or "lacking required
experience" because some feedback just can't be sanitized.

If the deficiency is in skills (technical or soft), rather than personality or
demeanor, then we generally provide solid feedback. For a candidate that is
borderline we will sometimes invite them back (or out for a drink) to ask them
how they would address the perceived deficit if we were to hire them. Not only
does it give them a chance to recover, it lets us see how they handle critical
feedback.

I don't believe there is liability exposure here, unless someone were to refer
to gender, race, religion, disability or ethnic background as a reason for not
hiring. Since those are never the reason for not hiring, this isn't an issue.

------
joshlegs
One employee at my work (I will not name it) was initially passed over for a
job because he called the company by the wrong name in his cover letter. He
emailed and asked what he could do better for his next job interview. That
email got him the job.

He was fired some time later for messing up too much on the job. [I couldn't
imagine that there would be any kind of predictor for that] ... I suppose it
just depends on who you ask and when you ask them.

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pktm
I frequently 'name a price'; that is, I disclose my current salary without
remembering that it locks me in for later negotiation.

~~~
sown
It never gets that far when they tell me 'no'. Maybe someday i'll have that
privilege.

------
mchannon
Perhaps it's very basic- in the Time Moneyland article on 8/8
([http://moneyland.time.com/2012/08/08/how-not-to-sabotage-
you...](http://moneyland.time.com/2012/08/08/how-not-to-sabotage-yourself-at-
work/)), it's suggested that the very tendency that you care enough to ask is
why they didn't hire you.

~~~
sown
I had assumed that it was something I did or some area I'm inadequate in that
makes me not get a callback. I just want to know what I can do to improve.

~~~
mchannon
Perhaps (and this is just based on my impression of your approach from a
computer terminal 1000 miles away; could be way off), an approach of needing
things to make sense, needing information, needing closure is coming across as
a negative personality trait that makes the interviewer think you're going to
be high maintenance, a drain on their time, and self- and team-sabotaging.

Nobody likes getting passed over for a job, with so much prep work and so much
on the line, but it's part of the game of interviewing and working for
somebody that you can keep that aspect of nervousness in check. I'm not saying
this is you, but if the roles were reversed, and you had 20 candidates for 1
job, and out of the two finalists, one may have higher technical marks but is
so nervous during the interview, wondering how they're doing during the
interview, even seeking your approval before they even get the job, which one
would you hire?

The basic value proposition for working for someone else is that you generate
a net positive financial and time outcome for them; if you take weight off
their shoulders, you pass. Seeking approval adds weight.

------
griffindy
the one time I asked for this I actually got a detailed list of notes each of
my interviewers had made, I found it very helpful

~~~
sown
That's the sort of thing I was hoping for. I genuinely want to improve my
shortcomings. "Build up your weaknesses until they become your strong points."
-- Knute Rockne

~~~
toomuchcoffee
But even if they felt they could, they wouldn't really have much to say about
your shortcomings, because... they're not _you_. They don't know anything
about what makes you tick, or the path you took to get to where you are now.
And they certainly don't know where you'll be in 10 or 15 years, regardless of
their current impression of you (+ or -).

All they have is this fleeting impression of how you "performed" in this one
weird, pretentious moment. Which doesn't have much to do with anything,
really.

~~~
shyn3
Their opinion matters in the sense that you can use some points that you
probably agree with but do not notice as being an issue for others.

~~~
toomuchcoffee
Yeah, that's my take, basically. Business, as well as casual social rejections
are (important) data points to be processed. But in most cases, just not worth
taking personally.

------
alpine
I once interviewed a potential hire in person and at the end of the process he
asked 'How did I do?' then pulled out of list of questions in the expectation
of forensic debrief as to where he could improve his interview technique!

Frankly, interviewing is a game with many unwritten rules - one is if you
don't get the gig, you are expected to politely accept the decision and move
on. Another is the interviewer will often decide in the first 60 seconds if
you're getting hired, so asking for feedback on where you 'went wrong' is a
waste of everyone's time.

Remember, when you interview, your potential employer has every intention of
hiring you _assuming you tick a few boxes_. This is also part of the game. Can
you figure out what those boxes are? Put yourself in their shoes. What would
_you_ like to see in you? As long as you continue to land interviews, don't
become disheartened - keep going and you _will_ get hired.

~~~
sown
> Another is the interviewer will often decide in the first 60 seconds if
> you're getting hired

OK. But why 60 seconds? What did I do wrong in that span of time?

~~~
alpine
It's important to get over the idea that you have done anything _wrong_. Think
of it as a percentages game... if you have been invited to interview then your
potential employer is definitely interested. So if the interviews keep coming,
be assured it is just a matter of time until someone makes you an offer.

~~~
sown
ok, that's a good point. thank you.

