
Ask HN: What industry needs technical innovation? - nategraves
Today, in the office, we had a brief discussion of some of the industries or fields that seem to have had relatively little technical innovation over the past decade.  Some industries seem to be getting a lot of attention from technical minds these days (e.g. the power grid, alternative fuels, etc.); others seem more stagnant and some may not stand to gain a lot from technological advancements.<p>But, I'm curious to hear others' opinions.  What industries are using technology and practices that are antiquated?
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SamAtt
As someone who works as an IT person in the Mental Health industry I'd
nominate that industry. Mental Health has all the problems of regular health
care times 10.

To give the most basic example, there is no formalized charting system in the
Mental Health Industry. You have standardized notes that are turned into the
county but that's about it.

The industry I work in (treatment of abused children who have been removed
from the home) has a 96% fail rate in California. That means 96% of the
children entrusted to the state end up in jail or dead by the age of 25 (as of
2003). So if ever there was an industry that needed technology's help it's
this one.

~~~
sorrow
The medical industry needs (good) software that helps with diagnosis. This
covers mental health also.

You have symptoms of problem and it helps narrow down. Need a massive database
of all known diseases as well as symptoms / remedies. Chart location data for
origin of specific disease, (less likely to be rabies if Australia etc) and
probability from all factors.

Would require huge amounts of data as well as many man hours to create but a
system that does this task would be one of most beneficial medical
breakthrough possible right now in my eyes.

Especially in mental health where there are symptoms of many things over many
separate disorder, or rare one. It would be a bonus if you could let this
information to be fully public, especially if one could direct users to
relevant places.

~~~
dangoldin
You also need doctors to be willing to accept the software. They may not since
they may feel that it makes their job look "easy" and will therefore cut into
their incomes.

~~~
sorrow
Thinking that doctors could be scared that their job looks easy makes me not
only excited but all more hungry for this sort of software. This is the same
thing labor said as it was mechanized. All sorts of other fields that changed
to be technology reliant are the same. The idea that medicine could become
"easy" could change this world maybe. Medicine becoming a job for more and
more spread out is exciting to me. I hope we can make physicians near obsolete
and direct professionals at research to better medicine.

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olefoo
Housing & Home Construction

Most house construction in the industrialised world is still done by semi-
skilled hand labour. There are few radical advances in materials or methods
that have gained traction with the industry. Partly this is because the
building industry is held back by antiquated construction codes that specify
acceptable means and materials rather than the minimum performance constraints
that buildings must exceed to be considered safe. But there is a lot of
cultural resistance as well, both from the building trades and from customers.

Home construction is an area where several orders of magnitude improvement in
both cost and performance are possible, just by the application of basic
engineering principles. Well, basic engineering principles and a willingness
to circumvent the established order.

~~~
kirubakaran
May be this has to be first done in a country where it is possible (lax codes;
not enforced; with corrupt officials etc - there are plenty of those) and made
it a great success. May be after that the First World will catch up. You just
have to make sure it doesn't get branded as Third World crap.

------
pg
Presumably the fields that need innovation most are those that have some
artificial constraint suppressing it. E.g. the music business, because
anything good is _ipso facto_ sued out of existence. Or the nuclear power
industry, because the level of regulation becomes a barrier to entry to all
but companies so bureaucratic they fit the government like a mold.

So oddly enough, you're most likely to be able to achieve innovation where
other people are.

~~~
YuriNiyazov
Can you give an example of a young company that managed to legally sidestep
that sort of regulation?

~~~
pg
Usually the way you do it is by replacing the whole industry that's regulated.

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jacquesm
Software development. And no, that's not a joke. We really are roughly where
we were in the 70's, we have not been able to make good use of the increase in
machine power.

It would be nice to see something really fresh. I'm holding out for 'fleet',
or something like it. A radical departure from what we think is 'best
practice' and the ways to do things. Something that will turn software
development into a true engineering discipline, without the house of cards
feeling that we have today.

~~~
Kaizyn
Alan Kay with the Viewpoints Research Institute is doing some interesting
work. If you have a chance, you should check out their released papers:

"STEPS Toward The Reinvention of Programming"
<http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2007008_steps.pdf>

"STEPS Toward The Reinvention of Programming, 2008 Progress Report Submitted
to the National Science Foundation (NSF), October 2008"
<http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2008004_steps08.pdf>

The idea here is to rebuild the existing software infrastructure that goes
into a fully-functioning system such that the source code is at a minimum an
order of magnitude smaller than systems are today. To do so, they claim,
requires building the software stack on top of the right abstractions. So far,
it seems they've made some excellent progress.

~~~
gord
sounds like lisp.

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mediaman
Agriculture. I'm studying an agricultural products distributor, and as much as
automation has helped reduce the reliance on labor in the agricultural sector,
there are still many areas hugely reliant on inefficient labor -- and many
business owners are facing increasing financial difficulty because of a
resistance toward automation.

I predict that as the industry consolidates, the more tech-savvy, bigger
players with more capital will squeeze the small guys out. And there is an
interesting opportunity for tech-savvy people there.

I am thinking specifically about some of the ag sectors which have not already
massively consolidated, such as greenhouse-based ag.

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simon_
How about law? Obviously there are non-technical problems there as well, but
it seems like there is still a lot that could be done technologically to
improve transparency and (maybe more interestingly) reduce expense.

~~~
nategraves
I've actually been thinking about law recently. It seems that, because it is a
field that is based on rules, it would lend itself well to a more programmatic
solution. Obviously not all law could be serviced programmatically, but there
are certainly areas that could be.

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adityakothadiya
Immigration processing is one, atleast in US.

I've still not understood why it takes 4-5 years to USCIS office to grant or
deny residency of an applicant. How can that process be so slow? All papers
and evidences are submitted on day one. Then why it takes 4-5 years to process
back-log applications and then process yours.

I know there is quota per country for per year. But not all quotas are full by
all countries. Why can't they do shuffling and do dynamic quota management?

This inefficiency is frustrating to many individuals, so definitely need some
technical innovation to process things efficiently.

~~~
jacquesm
That's because it is a deterrent.

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alanthonyc
Business Accounting

The current quarterly system of reporting finances was (I believe) developed
as a result of the Great Depression, to help inform the public of company
status.

The recent banking meltdown shows how inadequate this system is.

Something more realtime is needed.

~~~
nategraves
I think that's an interesting idea. I know that quarterly filings are an SEC
requirement, but it's at least in part to help shareholders keep abreast of
the goings on of the company in which they are part owners. It seems like
completely realtime would overwhelm casual investors, but could provide for
much more accurate trade decisions than those made on speculation and the
current system of quarterly conference calls.

~~~
alanthonyc
Yes.

Another problem with the quarterly focus is that companies end up gaming the
system (not in an entirely malicious way) in order to make the quarterly and
annual results look good, almost like cramming for a final. It can detract
from focusing on healthy long term growth.

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s3graham
Real estate is one that really chaps my ass.

I don't know what it's like in other countries, but in Canada there's this
bizarre mafia of middlemen that take ~6-10% of the value of house when you
sell. They self-promote and self-reinforce to maintain an information
advantage, but they don't seem to offer a service beyond a list of houses with
pictures, and hand-holding.

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byoung2
Education

~~~
vaksel
they just need to stop teaching useless shit.

Take math for example, why are we teaching kids how to do calculus using a
piece of paper, when in the real world they'll be using an Excel spreadsheet?

Math, Chemistry, Physics, Finance, pretty much any course that requires
calculations wastes 90% of the course, teaching the kids how to do the
calculations by hand, in most cases without even a calculator.

Excel is being widely used in the real world, yet you never see it taught in
the classroom. Why? Excel is what the kids will be using in their jobs,
shouldn't you be teaching them the skills they'll actually need? Instead of
teaching them outdated concepts? Why don't you teach them how to do calculus
using an abacus?

~~~
elptacek
An abacus is a better idea than you think. Most people struggle with
mathematics because it's not presented in a way that people who are not
mathematicians will understand. Read the biography for any $FAMOUS_SCIENTIST
and you shouldn't be surprised to find "read Euclid's elements at age [5-12]"

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vgurgov
Energy. All kind of. More efficient using of existing sources and new sources.
Think of it this way: How much worth ALL IT industry- all bright stars-
Google, apple, MS, ibm? Something around $1T, right? Now Petrochina alone(!)
is around 800B and its just about producing and selling gas in China!

So if you would be able to make technological innovation that would make my
car engine say 10% more effective or produce just few %% that my home consumes
- that will be HUGE!!!

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michaelkeenan
Government. It has a high barrier to entry (win an election/revolution) and a
high consumer switching cost (move far away, get a new job, learn a new
language). If the governing industry were more competitive, I think its
quality of service would be better.

The Peter Thiel-funded Seasteading Institute is trying to decrease the start-
up cost and the consumer switching cost. Paul Romer has another approach with
the Charter City proposal he's advocating.

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yan
All of them.

Under that light, the world is full of opportunities.

~~~
nategraves
Ahhhhh, that's true, but I guess I was thinking less philosophically.

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dpcan
The Home.

It should be "standard" to have a single web interface for control over
everything in my house.

1) Real-Time monitoring of water, electric and gas consumption.

2) Entertainment. I should be able to login to a website and click "TV's".
Then I can see if they are on, what channel is being watched, what is
scheduled to be recorded.

3) Security. Doors and Windows. Automation of opening, closing and locking.
Plus video surveillance.

4) Upkeep. Sprinkler control. Heat control and lights. Start the dishwasher,
start the coffee pot.

Sure, this can all be done with an excessive amount of work, lots of high tech
and expensive gadgetry, and custom software setups, but that doesn't mean it
HAS to be that way. I think the Home needs an overhaul.

~~~
nategraves
I used to hear a lot more about "smart" appliances than I do now. I know there
have been some companies that have worked on developing outlet adapters that
allow you to control some basic functionality over a network, but the smart
appliance craze seems to have died down as of late.

~~~
alexdonners
could you give any examples with names of companies that are doing the outlet
adapters that you mention? I'd like to view them further.

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skmurphy
Healthcare, construction, K12 education are three tidepools that a lot of IT
innovation has left behind over the last 30 years. None of them need
invention, they need to import and adapt working innovations from other
fields.

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zoba
Electricity, the power grid... Right now I'm pretty sure power companies can't
tell you if the power is on at your house or not...The system is pretty old.

~~~
djdt
The technology is there. If you live in the US then most substations have
metering, various indications (transformer monitoring, breaker positions,
etc.), and breaker/circuit switcher/motor operated device controls. If there
is a fault on your feeder then the utility should know immediately. Chances
are if you are served by a larger utility then you will also get an automated
time of day meter in the next couple of years. Is the adoption of technology
slow compared other industries? Sure, safety and reliability rule.

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personacode
Automobile - currently we are under the model slow and steady wins the race
and kills the environment. Traffic sucks, gas sucks, texting kills people.

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detcader
Environmental improvement (not necessarily environmentally-friendly, just
human environment)

ie <http://www.project10tothe100.com/ideas.html> "Create real-world issue
reporting system"

Google's Project 10 to the 100 has a lot of good ideas related to
technological innovation.

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gry
It seems to me the largest industries -- the ones bound by regulation or the
way it's always been done are the ones most ripe for change.

News, real estate, health care, automotive and agriculture come to mind. We're
seeing some of these change because of technology. Hopefully, the ones that
survive will be stronger for it.

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ippisl
The third world is craving for low cost technologies ,and there's a huge
market potential there. only in the last few years companies have started to
become interested ,so there might empty places for startups.

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baran
Healthcare, plan and simple.

~~~
dankjaergaard
more specifically: clinical trials. This is where most money spent on drug
development goes. The sooner big pharma figures out if a drug works or not the
better. Its still a very paper based industry, which I think is an FDA
requirement. So I believe lots can be innovated here

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danek
reminds me of an article my friend wrote:
[http://kcomposite.blogspot.com/2009/06/uniquely-
american.htm...](http://kcomposite.blogspot.com/2009/06/uniquely-
american.html)

(short answer = taxes and banking)

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studiotentpole
Digital Advertising

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Chirag
Agriculture.

