
Does Anyone Here Speak Art and Tech? - mtalantikite
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/04/fashion/art-and-techology-a-clash-of-cultures.html?_r=all
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jeresig
I was interviewed for this article, it looks like my comments were used well
and relatively in context.

That being said I definitely don't fit into the tech + art audience that was
being defined in this article. It seems to be implied that there is a large
amount of naïveté regarding art amongst techies, which is very true for the
most part, and they're just looking to burn their piles of tech money on
something pretty (which is certainly debatable). I study art and art history
in my spare time, with a particular focus on Japanese art and Ukiyo-e:
<http://ukiyo-e.org/> This seems to be very rare in the tech world with few
technical people being interested in the humanities, let alone art and art
history.

One point I mentioned to the reporter, but was left off, was that almost all
art I collect is either antique (and then acquired from auction or dealer) or
if it's from a living/contemporary artist then from the artist directly. I've
never met a more disdainful group of people then art dealers, especially
contemporary art dealers.

It's especially surprising that the article didn't mention Artsy
(<http://artsy.net>) considering that it's right in NYC and it's the perfect
intersection of the contemporary art world and tech. They are much more
connected to contemporary art galleries and dealers and are working very hard
to get people connected to the art they're interested in - which seems to be
largely fixing the issue(s) outlined in the article.

There is a lot of interesting work happening in tech + art right now in NYC
and I'm excited to even be in the outskirts. Cool projects like:

<http://www.eyebeam.org/> <http://arthackday.net/god_mode/>
<http://www.nypl.org/collections/labs> <http://smarthistory.khanacademy.org/>
Not to mention many of the projects here: <http://caa2013.thatcamp.org/>

~~~
jdi626
As a museum technologist and someone who works daily harnessing technology to
help make collection objects and exhibitions more accessible and open, I found
this article to be a bit skewed. Granted, the thrust was on personal
collecting habits of those in the tech sector, but I find the arts/tech
community to be vibrant, passionate and invested.

Just my 2 cents from the inside.

~~~
jeresig
I absolutely agree - for those that are in the realm it's a great time to be
involved. I'd also argue that the intersection of art + tech is still, very
much, a hyper-niche in the larger tech world (which is largely what this
article is portraying, for better or worse). It's unfortunate that so much of
"art" is conflated with "high-net-worth individuals being told what art to buy
from dealers" which is a minute aspect of the art world to focus on.

~~~
kenamarit
As a video game developer in NYC (I also participated in Art Hack Day: God
Mode that you mentioned above, I dug your project!), I agree with you that
"art" is being conflated with "high-net-worth individuals being told what art
to buy from dealers."

I also agree with everyone that there are many technologists very interested
in art, and maybe even a good percentage who understand this specific art
world that the article talks about and how it works. The problem, however, is
that the ones who are most likely to understand and perhaps even appreciate
this art world are also the least likely to have any money--they are more akin
to fellow "starving artists" running around Bushwick.

Though most programmers I know say they aren't in it for the money, and mostly
I think this is true, in the Art-Tech intersection specifically there are many
who can hack who don't actually make that much money from it.

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venomsnake
But why should tech people collect art? If I have few millions dollars to
spare I will throw them at Tim Schaffer to make Psychonauts 2 ... games can
use maecenates as well. And they are much closer to the heart and mind of the
tech community.

The only thing I can read in this article is "Moooom, flow of money bypassing
my pockets".

~~~
S4M
Yeah, exactly, when I was reading this article I had the feeling that art
gallery people were considering mandatory for wealthy people to collect art.
It doesn't give any reason on why they should.

~~~
quizbo
It's a group that assumes it carries the torch for 'culture', but culture here
defined as the exclusive 'high culture' they value and know something about.
Perhaps a bit like the self-appointed musical aristocracy Nick Hornsby took
the piss out of in High Fidelity.

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cllns
_“For technologists, it’s all about leveling the playing field, and the art
world is a very structured, hierarchical system,”_

This article seems to be talking exclusively of 'high art'.

Art isn't just found in galleries, and isn't necessarily for sale for a lot of
money.

Obviously the NYTimes is focused on this type, but it's an important
distinction.

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thraxil
I'm a programmer in NYC and I also do art on the side (I've shown in galleries
in the city here as well as London and Berlin).

Honestly, most of the art scene here (with some very exceptional exceptions)
is boring, incestuous, and more interested in chasing trends and trying to
seem cool than showing interesting work. It's way more about who you know and
whether you're doing the kind of thing that happens to be the buzz _today_. I
don't blame tech people for not wanting to be part of that. I much prefer the
scene on the west coast and Europe.

The HN crowd might be interested in Devotion Gallery in Williamsburg:
<http://areyoudevoted.squarespace.com/> which is small, but specifically deals
with the intersection of art, science, and technology. The last show dealt
with augmented reality, and other shows I've seen there have involved
generative algorithmic art, glitch, video games, and 3d printing. (disclosure:
my girlfriend is the gallery director).

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r0s
I have a large art collection and have actually commissioned work. I've worked
in art galleries and have a good understanding of the culture.

The reason for 'friction' in the art business, from my view is because it's
not a traditional business. Very few galleries can actually turn a profit from
sales. The few that do are in the largest cities, at the top of a mountain of
unprofitable, privately funded lifestyle businesses or non-profits.

The value of art is also quite hard to quantify, especially for the outsider
as the article says. The art world is confusing and insular compared to other
businesses, both for new artists and collectors. The upshot is it's largely
accessible from the ground up! Small venues are everywhere and desperate for
eyes and dollars, everyone is invited.

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Acoustiguide
Hello,

I work for a company called Acoustiguide and we are delighted that the tech
audience is interested in high art and culture. Our company creates apps for
museums; we write educational content to help explain art and record
interviews with experts, then this content is combined with images of the
artwork being discussed into both Android and iOS apps. And, we are located in
the heart of Midtown Manhattan!

We are proud to say that we have created content and apps for some of the
world's most famous institutions. In NYC this includes MoMA and the Jewish
Museum; throughout the US, this includes the Barnes Foundation, Seattle Art
Museum, and Asian Art Museum; and internationally, we've done work with the
Louvre, State Hermitage Museum in Russia, and Guggenheim Bilbao, among others.

We would love to share with you one of our favorites (which was made in
partnership with our parent company, Espro), which was made for the iPad and
explains the Detroit Industry Murals by Diego Rivera at the Detroit Institute
of Art. [https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/detroit-industry-rivera-
cour...](https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/detroit-industry-rivera-
court/id569181834?mt=8)

We hope you take a look and are happy to further discuss art history and
technology!

Sincerely,

Blaire

Acoustiguide, Inc.

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jkokenge
I definitely disagreed with the implication of generalized naivety among
"tech" folk regarding the arts and humanities. It all depends on the circles
you run in. I studied Latin and Ancient Greek for a long time and then I got
into tech. My experience includes a number of tech people who have studied art
history extensively across a wide range of traditions and I also know folks in
tech who were linguists in their previous lives.

I would also argue, though, that an honest appreciative and humanistic
approach to art and its place in our lives is to the NYC art scene as a loving
physical relationship is to porn and hookers and this story seemed more
concerned with the "scene" than actual art itself.

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kschlenker
Hi everyone, I loved this article, especially “I want to meet the artists and
hear their stories about why they make what they make. I don’t want to go to
the parties.”

I started Gertrude (www.gertrude.co) a few months ago in NYC exactly on this
thought. Instead of using technology to commodify art via an online
marketplace, I am more interested in using technology to match collectors and
artists so they can meet at intimate, real life one-hour events (we call them
Salons, like one by Gertrude Stein).

We have help 7 Salons so far with exciting artists and will do at least one
every week in the next few months. You can read more about us here:
www.gertrude.co

Kenneth Schlenker

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dageshi
I love how there's this expectation that once you've made a lot of money
you're somehow instantly transformed from what you were before into something
else entirely. You're suddenly supposed to care and be interested in a load of
things you were never interested in before.

To me a lot of the "high arts" are seemingly networking events for rich people
or soon to be rich people.

~~~
walshemj
Would be interesting to see what Ivan Pope thinks of this (tech entrepreneur
who was in the same year as Damien Hurst)

the trouble is for art dealers you have to wait to late in peoples lives or
for the second generation to grow up before they start investing in art in the
main.

they do seem to be "chardee" events for 60 year olds who have made it to
squire their third trophy wife to

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tenpoundhammer
The 'artists' in this article sounded like a bunch of entitled twits. It
sounded like they were saying rich people should be collecting art to support
the community.

Maybe rich people from our generation want to put that money into starting new
companies, philanthropy, or any number of other things. Why is art more
important than any other good cause?

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qzxt
I couldn't help but detect a certain level of bourgeois elitism in the
article, which in some part is why the rift is large as they claim, but in a
larger sense, is why the rift is as large as they claim.

That may seem a bit confusing to read, but when you look at the typical tech-
rich set, there is no inherent need to fit in with the crowd, simply for the
sake of fitting-in. "The art scene" for the most part is exactly just that.
Speaking as someone quite interested in art history, I can attest to the fact
that the "high art" world is very much a relic from old times - when children
were raised to watch their status and life was a giant popularity contest. Now
that's not to say that the tech-set are impervious to elitist behavior, but
tech elitism is based more heavily on talent, intelligence, and creativity. So
in a way, it's a kind of elitism that is forced on the culture itself, in a
pursuit for the most "innovative" way to do something. Where the art crowd
admires "witty" quasi-intellectual banter, the tech-set are more likely to be
interested in something, more demonstrably cool or unique to their interests.
This obviously poses a dilemma for art dealers from that standpoint - how do
you interest someone in something they have no interest in. It is a dilemma
that art dealers face, not just with "nerds" but with anyone, really. But
convincing the average Joe to be interested in your activity because "it's
what the cool kids do" is a lot easier than convincing someone who may not
necessarily care much for sitting at the cool kids' table.

So in a sense, the tech crowd doesn't buy into high art because it's a group
that generally doesn't have any particular need to fit-in for fitting in sake,
but in a larger sense, the elitism in the high art world is reliant more on
popularity and everyone reading the same books and speaking the same language,
which is complete anathema to a group whose principles are based more on "cool
shit" than club membership.

But then again, these are just my generalizations :)

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tibbon
I often find myself between tech and art. Day job is mostly Rails consulting.
Went to Berklee for Music Business Management (and plenty of guitar). I split
my free time between technology stuff, and building functional art/music
things at my hackerspace. I'd like to do yet more art. Many installations in
the pipeline.

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neilk
For tech people, status is achieved more by what you've done or can do, than
what you own or have. If the high art world wants to cater to the richer tech
people, they should focus on exclusive participatory experiences rather than
objects.

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syva
I work in this space; sadly not in NY, but here's our project:
<http://www.seditionart.com>

~~~
fotoblur
I'd love to see what your site is about but don't want to create an account
just to do so... I don't even get in the front door before I know I want to
leave. Just my 2 cents.

~~~
syva
Thanks for your feedback. We're changing this in the coming weeks :) For now,
sorry about the barrier to entry.

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onemorepassword
It's odd, I seem to recall that in the early to mid 90's there was between the
art scene and the hacker scene. Most of the tech, especially the internet, was
so new that nobody had a clear idea of how to do anything profitable with it,
so curiosity and creativity were a shared motivation.

The money and greed around the first internet bubble killed off most of that.

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icecreamguy
So "art" means only what, canvas and sculpture? Is music not considered "art?"

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robbyking
Me and most of my friends who work in tech are all big fans of art, but we buy
most of our art from local (SF) artists showing in smaller galleries.

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tlog333
Agree with earlier comment surprised <http://artsy.net/> wasn't mentioned

