
Microsoft cofounder Paul Allen tries again with patent megasuit - blhack
http://feeds.arstechnica.com/~r/arstechnica/index/~3/3yNGXNL3rSo/microsoft-cofounder-paul-allen-tries-again-with-patent-megasuit.ars
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dansingerman
I really hope what he is doing is deliberately launching a ridiculous large
scale patent suit designed to fail on a massive scale that will undermine all
future software patent suits, and therefore the whole software patent system.

If he is he's a hero.

If not he's a dick.

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ez77
I had a similar reaction. The good news is that, _regardless of his true
intentions_ , enough high-profile ridiculous suits like this will be the most
powerful catalyst for severe reform.

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jacquesm
> enough high-profile ridiculous suits like this will be the most powerful
> catalyst for severe reform.

The problem here is that as long as these suits are lost there is plenty of
force behind those that say that 'the system works', so only if Paul Allen
would actually win this suit would there be an incentive for such reform.
There is no real penalty to bringing a suit like this (other than making a
bunch of lawyers richer, but when you need 9 zeros before the comma to express
your wealth that's no big deal).

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motters
Whatever tech industry reputation Paul Allen may have previously enjoyed, he's
really destroying it now.

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jacquesm
Reputations take a lifetime to build and can be destroyed in a heartbeat. Paul
Allen did a fantastic job of building his reputation, and barring a hidden
agenda has done an equally impressive job of destroying it, not just with this
'retry' (abort or ignore?) but already with the first incarnation of it.

I'm hoping that there is a hidden side to this but I'm having a hard time
dreaming up a scenario where this is not a 'win' for Paul Allen either way in
retrospect ("I've done this to destroy the patent system" or "I just made a
bunch of money"). Maybe he should state his goal? The worst case outcome for
the rest of the world is that he wins this stupid suit, the best case outcome
for the world is that he really is a greedy patent troll and triggers patent
reform.

If he's doing it with that purpose then I'm all for it but since there is a
chance that he will make a great deal of money from this I highly doubt it.

It's funny because over the years I lost patience with Microsoft, Gates and
Ballmer with Paul Allen being the last hold-out in terms of being respectable.
It's a pity to see that soiled in this way, apparently there is no such thing
as 'enough' and abusing the system is just A-Ok.

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alextgordon
Patents are essentially a licence to write new laws. A list of millions of
banned actions. The only difference is the people who write these new laws
aren't elected, and the laws expire after 20 years. There is no way to tell if
something is banned or not, except by getting sued.

I don't know how anyone thinks this is a good idea.

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blhack
These are some of the most absurdly vague patents I've ever heard. Very, very
bad form.

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tkeller
Have you actually read them? Read the claims? They're software patents, so
plenty of folk will hate them just based on that... but they really are not
poorly drafted patents.

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blhack
No. As I am not a patent attorney and do not speak legalese, I had to concern
myself with the abstract descriptions only. Have you? These appear to cover
what is essentially the * symbol appearing over your "notifications" icon
after a timeout on facebook, or the (1) appearing on twitter if you leave it
idle for long enough and a new tweet appears in your stream.

Do you think that this is unique enough an idea that others should have to pay
Paul Allen's company for the rights to use it? This was something that I was
going to implement on thingist. Should I not do this because I would be
infringing on a legitimate (legitimate in the _spirit_ of patent law) bit of
intellectual property?

This is why patent trolling is so damaging to the community. I'm not a lawyer,
I have no idea. The best I can do is read the abstract of a patent (if I can
even find it) and try not to step on anybody's toes. For somebody like me, a
lowly 23 year old kid making side projects in his spare time and day-dreaming
about someday moving to San Francisco and getting to hang out at the cool kids
table, this stuff is _terrifying_. Paul Allen, a multi-billionaire with a
fleet of private jets and private yachts and private submarines and private
multi-million-dollar-per-year-retainer lawyers might SUE ME.

SO I have a couple of choices. I can implement what seems like a completely
obvious feature and risk being sued by the largest Goliath in the industry, or
I can follow the written law and not.

What should I do? What would you do?

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tkeller
That's kind of my point. The title means nothing. The abstract means almost
nothing. The figures mean almost nothing. Have a look here for a brief guide
to reading a patent, written for nonlawyers.
[http://www.danshapiro.com/blog/2010/09/how-to-read-a-
patent-...](http://www.danshapiro.com/blog/2010/09/how-to-read-a-patent-
in-60-second/)

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blhack
Do you think this sort of thing (that programmers would have to concern
themselves with reading patents beyond their description) is acceptable?

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tkeller
Do I think it's acceptable that adults are required to have some understanding
of how the world around them works? Yes, I do.

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blhack
That isn't what I asked. This has nothing to do with understanding the world
around you, this has to do with understanding things that were written down on
small slips of paper and filed away in boxes inside of a building in Virginia.

The slips of paper (which have now been scanned into a computer; images of
them are now available on the internet) are there to mark the occasion of the
first person writing that particular series of symbols down on that particular
piece of paper. The idea is that if you write a certain series of symbols down
on the paper, you are the only person that is to be allowed to do whatever it
was that you described with the symbols. If somebody doesn't know about the
occasion of you writing down the symbols and does whatever it was you
described (well, in this case, predicted they might do), then you are entitled
to a portion of that unlucky person's assets.

The entire thing is absurd, and if you can't see that, then I suggest you
devote more time to "understanding how the world around you works".

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mkramlich
> That isn't what I asked. This has nothing to do with understanding the world
> around you, this has to do with understanding things that were written down
> on small slips of paper and filed away in boxes inside of a building in
> Virginia.

Unfortunately, the Vogon Destructor Fleet was not moved by this appeal to
reason.

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S_A_P
I guess he sees his fortune in MS stock declining over the next few years and
needs a new revenue stream...

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msg
It's been flat for a decade, so why now?

The Seahawks are in trouble, so he's turning to other interests?

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WildUtah
Hey, the Seahawks are hosting a playoff game if they can top the Rams next
week. Of course, they're still 6-9.

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arvinjoar
The man is dying, and he's really well off, what is he doing _patent
trolling_?

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y0ghur7_xxx
If you mean he is dying from cancer, actually no, he is now free from cancer.

<http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/297665>

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Devilboy
He strikes it rich with Microsoft, survives cancer and to repay the world
he... turns to patent trolling.

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coderdude
>>Also, Mueller said, "[s]hould Google be served an injunction as a result of
Interval's suit, owners of Android phones would experience a very significant
degradation of the user experience."

Well that sucks. It would be terrible if I had my phone's services greatly
impaired so this guy can go through his little patent suit.

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sp332
I think the point would be to use the threat of an injunction to get Google to
settle for lots of money out-of-court.

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extension
_While Apple's iTunes Store, App Store, and Apple TV are targeted in the
lawsuit, iOS was notably not named as infringing Interval's patents._

Notification is an area in which iOS is conspicuously lagging behind Android.
I wonder if this "peripheral attention" patent has something to do with that.

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gojomo
Some tech zillionaires create private space programs… others create giant
patent troll portfolios. Maybe the former can nuke the latter from orbit.

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alexqgb
At this stage, it's the only way to be sure.

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guelo
He should be using his money to launch a lobbying effort to eliminate software
patents.

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jws
I hope he has all the success he did with "Paul Allen's Charter
Communication™".

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spicerunner
The patent system needs an enema. Most of these are so broad it's like
patenting water. Apple recently patented the 'slide to unlock' UI concept. If
I'm not mistaken, the aliens in the Preditor movies had already established
that as prior art and should probably go pay Apple's attorney's a visit.

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EGreg
Paul Allen is taking advantage of the law. There is nothing really wrong with
that. If you think the law is wrong, then let's work to try to change it. I
personally find these intellectual property monopolies to be more menace than
good. Especially the 17-year-long patents for SOFTWARE!

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patrickaljord
> Paul Allen is taking advantage of the law. There is nothing really wrong
> with that.

Why? If a law is wrong, unfair or immoral, taking advantage of it is not
right, it is actually wrong. That being said, it is legal, but being legal
does not always imply rightness.

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EGreg
Who says a law is wrong, unfair or immoral? Certainly not the legislators.
Even if it is, taking advantage of the law might still not be unfair or
immoral. If anything, it will highlight that the law needs to be changed.

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patrickaljord
What does it have to do with legislators? They don't define what's right, fair
or moral, they just make laws.

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rdl
If anyone settles with him, that company becomes the enemy as well.

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meadhikari
and this is how software patent ended. Is the best result we could expect from
this.

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berntb
Anyone _really_ believes this is not coordinated with Microsoft?

So the next phase will be when e.g. Wozniak put up a software patent company
and sues Microsoft, Google and Nokia? And then some investors in Google will
finance a patent troll company which...

Patent Armageddon, here we come. :-(

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pierrefar
I did note that MS is not listed as one of the defendants.Odd as I'm sure a
cursory look would find an infringement of _some sort_.

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sp332
Allen has already got his money from Microsoft :-)

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pierrefar
MS is sitting on a few tens of billions of dollars in cash. How cynical do you
need to be to think this pile is off limits for patent trolls?

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sp332
This isn't a random patent troll, this is _Paul Allen_
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Allen> , _co-founder_ of Microsoft.

If you're still feeling cynical, you can think of it this way: MS has enough
dirt on Allen from his years there to bring him down if he threatens them :-)

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pierrefar
I know who's involved. Your point about dirt is very valid - I didn't think of
it because a patent troll crosses a line after which he doesn't value friends.

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cookiecaper
Not to mention Allen still probably owns a large amount of Microsoft stock,
which would probably not respond well to major patent litigation, especially
if MS lost and had to not only pay out damages but re-implement in a non-
infringing way.

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lotusleaf1987
This is exactly what you do when you're a greedy scumbag.

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mkramlich
Have zero in the bank: can't afford to be a patent troll.

Have a few million: can afford, might even make financial sense, assuming you
are ok with it ethically.

Have a few billion: why be a patent troll? You have the world's biggest yacht
-- do you need 1000 more?

Boggles my mind.

