

How Much Money Do You Make Programming? - par
http://devcodehack.com/how-much-money-do-you-make-programming/

======
patio11
Many people who program professionally are not called programmers, either by
the people in charge of titles at their organization or by government
statisticians.

For example, the Bureau of Labor Statistics thinks that "software developers"
(which it has a fairly rigorous definition for) have a median salary
nationwide of about $90k, which is rather north of self-reports on glassdoor.
(And, incidentally, below prevailing salary offers for fresh graduates at
AmaGooFaceSoft in 2013. That's news-you-can-use for some of you.)

However, if you take any of the _numerous_ career paths which can _quite
easily_ result in you making doctor/lawyer/banker money, it is highly unlikely
your business cards will still say Programmer on them, even if programming is
a large portion of your day-to-day activities and value proposition. Take a
quick gander at the HN leaderboard, for example: many of the people on it are
well-compensated and program professionally, but comparatively few are of them
(us?) are titled as programmers.

Relatedly, calling yourself a programmer is not necessarily a successful
tactic if you want to make $PICK_A_SUCCESS_METRIC via doing programming.
[http://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-
pro...](http://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-programmer/)

------
Eliezer
Well those numbers sound wildly low.

~~~
par
are you disappointed or are you making wildly more?

~~~
carterschonwald
the GP is Eliezer Yudkowsky [http://yudkowsky.net/](http://yudkowsky.net/), he
works at a nonprofit. Also author of the excellent "Harry Potter and the
methods of rationality". So your remark makes no sense.

Also those Salary figures are low. The lowest I've seen for a junior engineer
who can't negotiate in NYC or SF is 70-90k.

Its very very normal for a smart junior engineer with track record to get 110k
even at relatively small orgs, I've seen this or higher in NYC or SF. (notice
the emphasis on really smart)

really really good (and senior) engineers at organizations that have money /
are somewhat large, are known to easily hit salaries of 300k-400k. I've heard
of higher, but I'm just naming the range i've heard from people directly.

~~~
samspenc
> really really good (and senior) engineers at organizations that have money /
> are somewhat large, are known to easily hit salaries of 300k-400k.

That's really high. I work in NYC and know of a small set who're hitting
175k-180k max (not me, I make less!), and those people are a rare bunch. I
realize there are people who may be getting up to 300k, but that's probably
the top 0.5%-1% percentile.

I've heard these urban legends of 200k+ in SF and NYC - are there people here
on HN who make that much, even in SF or NYC?

110k-150k seems to be a realistic range for a pretty good software engineer in
NYC.

~~~
carterschonwald
I agree, 110-150k is the normal good range. The folks I know who are above
that range are some of the best engineers I have the pleasure of knowing on
the planet.

When I say really really good, think "epic, world class level threat" amazing.
:)

~~~
samspenc
Agreed. :) But IMHO, that puts them in the top 0.1% of engineers, and isn't
reflective of the "middle class" or vast majority of programmers, even in SF
or NYC. ;)

~~~
carterschonwald
Come to the NYC Haskell meetup sometime! There's really really good
interesting (yet accessible) tech talks and really nice smart folks.

------
softbuilder
A few thoughts:

First, sources. Please.

Second, salaries are all over the map. Worse, the under-performers and
insecure are always included in salary reports which makes it hard to know
where you might stand against competent, self-assured peers.

Third, we need to stop worshiping $100k as any sort of meaningful milestone.
Skilled tradesfolk can make that and more. "Six-figures" has had the same
cultural cache my whole life. Meanwhile inflation (even w/ low rates) marches
on, compounding. What was $100k in 1995 would have to be $150k today. Or 1985
to today, which would be over $210k. [1]

[1]
[http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm](http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm)

------
gagabity
I was under the impression that Fortran Devs get paid pretty well, because its
not the cool thing to do there isn't a lot of them.

Also the languages changing fast thing isn't really correct, Java, C++, C#,
Javascript, PHP have been around a long time and still going strong, you could
do your entire career in one of these.

~~~
gfodor
Framing a career in software development around programming languages is like
framing a career in mechanical engineering around CAD tools. It's a key
component for sure but by the end of your career which particular tools you
used fades into a footnote.

------
damian2000
If you're in the Philippines, try about USD$7,500 per year. Lowest in the
world according to this info graphic [http://www.staff.com/blog/web-developer-
salaries-infographic...](http://www.staff.com/blog/web-developer-salaries-
infographic/)

~~~
Eliezer
Are they competent? For that price I'll take 4.

