
Linus Torvalds Shares His Thoughts on Microsoft’s New-Found Love for Linux - Alupis
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2019/10/linus-torvalds-doesnt-think-microsoft-is-out-to-hijack-linux
======
corford
I'm old enough to remember Bill Gates appearing as a borg on Slashdot and the
infamous mutating linux ads MS ran when Win2K came out
([https://images.app.goo.gl/Tqj5xPmgueJotQuN7](https://images.app.goo.gl/Tqj5xPmgueJotQuN7))
but I agree with Linus. The landscape has changed and the money today is in
SaaS and Cloud.

MS missed the mobile revolution but they appear intent on ensuring their slice
of the "cloud" pie through Azure. Making sure they support the linux ecosystem
is a no brainer (and I think they're far too late to embrace and extend).

Having already lost browser, mobile and search; they'd be dead if they fucked
up cloud too.

~~~
cure
> I'm old enough to remember Bill Gates appearing as a borg on Slashdot and
> the infamous mutating linux ads MS ran when Win2K came out

And XBill, don't forget about XBill!

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XBill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XBill)

------
thomasjudge
Found this a while back and thought it was an interesting perspective vis a
vis some of the collective (mine included) perceptions of Microsoft based on
their past behavior, illegal and unethical business practices and such. Not to
necessarily excuse or erase that, but Nadella-era MSFT is very different than
Gates- or Ballmer-era

[https://www.hanselman.com/blog/MicrosoftKilledMyPappy.aspx](https://www.hanselman.com/blog/MicrosoftKilledMyPappy.aspx)

~~~
Analemma_
(disclaimer: I used to work at Microsoft)

There's an important lesson here: while reasonable skepticism is always good,
it's important to remember that a policy of "never forgive, never forget"
actually creates moral hazard. If people/companies think they will never be
forgiven for current misdeeds even if they get better, then there's no
incentive to get better and they might as well keep being horrible. Allowing
people (or companies) to turn over a new leaf incentivizes good behavior.

~~~
lotsofpulp
I don't think it is reasonable to expect people completely disconnected from
the negative effects of their actions to "turn over a new leaf", especially
when they stand to make hundreds of thousands of dollars or more.

From all the examples I can see, "ask for forgiveness, not permission" is how
many of the largest companies have become economically successful.

------
iamwil
Whether Microsoft will stay like this just depends largely on their current
strategic positioning and how their organization is set up to make money now,
rather than how they acted in the past.

If the incentives are aligned, they'll be well behaved. If not, then they'll
do whatever they can.

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
Almost.

Whether Microsoft will stay like this depends on how they respond to the
changing landscape moving forward.

------
oska
Can we redirect to the original article [1] please (linked in the submitted
article).

[1] [https://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-isnt-worried-
ab...](https://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-isnt-worried-about-
microsoft-taking-over-linux/)

------
sys_64738
I think Linus will end up working at Microsoft some day.

~~~
newnewpdro
I think Linus will retire.

~~~
nine_k
I don't think Linus is currently working because he desperately needs money.

I suppose that Linus might continue working to further a case he cares about.

------
yaris
Funny how some people still fear MS controlling Linux (with intent to kill of
course), although RedHat/IBM is much more real danger.

~~~
jitl
RedHat/IBM already won now that SystemD is everywhere because Gnome requires
it.

------
bbanyc
Microsoft wants to compete with Amazon and Google, and god bless them if
they've been humbled by their recent failures and want to play fair now. I'd
be more concerned about IBM, which through its acquisition of Red Hat now
controls or funds most of the software in the "traditional" Linux environment.

~~~
pnutjam
Don't forget about Suse, they support alot of the opensource ecosystem.

You can actually buy RedHat support from them also.

[https://www.suse.com/c/know-suse-supporting-rhat-
years/](https://www.suse.com/c/know-suse-supporting-rhat-years/)

------
jupp0r
The article leaves out the minor detail that through sponsoring the Linux
Foundation, Microsoft is paying Linus' paycheck.

That being said, I'm really excited about the apparent culture shift inside
Microsoft. Let's forget about the ugly past and judge them by their recent
actions.

~~~
AlexCoventry
Such as their imposition of extensive telemetry in windows 10?

~~~
folkhack
Right? You're using a piece of adware/spyware if you're not on the LTSC/B
version. Even the Enterprise copies are atrocious now.

They're arguably worse than they were 10-20 years ago IMO... throwing some
Linux support on top of stuff just makes me scoff.

------
smitty1e
I appreciate that Torvalds is no ideologue, and that his "tit for tat"
approach extends to Redmond.

The relatively more purist views of the FSF are of value, as well.

A spectrum of opinion keeps any Towers of Babel from getting too tall.

------
peterwwillis
I remember when everyone was a Google, Facebook and Apple fanboy, and those
tunes sure changed. I also remember when the whole Open Source/Free Software
community loathed Microsoft. Maybe the lesson in all this is, don't assume
what a ginormous capitalist corporation will do based on your feelings about
their brand.

~~~
BuckRogers
Apple is still good. But their business model is aligned to be good stewards
of the user unlike Facebook or Google. Microsoft and Apple products are
irreplaceable today as well, while Google and Facebook offer convenience but
no necessary value.

~~~
peterwwillis
> Apple is still good

I think you miss my point... an entire company can't be "good". "Apple" is a
brand. You may like a lot of their products, but they also have some products
with shit features, and they sometimes do "things" that are not so much "good"
for "the users" as they are good for the company.

Their MacBook Pro keyboards are the worst in the industry. They make it so a
user can't repair a product that they own. They censor application platforms
based on the country a user is in. The majority of their products are a
"captive market", often impossible to use with anything but another Apple
product. There's many things Apple does that are _against_ the users. But here
you are, enjoying some of their products, so you call their entire brand, and
presumably their entire product line, "good".

How does one define "good", then? Good enough for all? For some? For you? Good
in quality? Good morally or ethically, and if so, based on whose
morals/ethics? Do the people and places they effect outside of their immediate
users matter? I don't think it's useful to think of an entire brand in such a
simplistic way.

BTW, Google and Facebook offer necessary value. Facebook is used to keep up
with people's lives (without it, many grandparents would know next to nothing
of the lives of their grandchildren, for example) and encompasses two of the
largest instant messaging platforms. Google is probably the biggest provider
of e-mail, an absolutely essential component of having an online life (which
is increasingly necessary for more of regular life, from getting a ride
somewhere, to accessing government services, to transferring funds), to say
nothing of search, maps, docs. And many of these services would be pointless
without the Apple/Google/Microsoft platforms, but many of those platforms
would be pointless without the services. So what's "necessary" is a bit
subjective.

(Caveat to all of the above: Fuck Oracle.)

~~~
BuckRogers
Facebook/Google are both easily replaceable, that's why they have no intrinsic
value they create. I can use Outlook.com or iCloud.com and I have the original
social network (or, pickup the phone or write a letter). DuckDuckGo grants me
search. Altavista was pretty good too.

I don't prefer all of Apple products, although I do like them all. I use a
Thinkpad X1 Extreme for work, and also have a 2019 Samsung Notebook 9 Pen. We
do use iPhones in this house. I thought "good" was a light-way of putting.
Overall, all things considered I'd go up a notch to "best".

You may have been rattled by me calling Apple "good", but if I have to light a
fire on all of these companies except one, I'd leave Apple intact. I could
easily and happily use their entire lineup. The Macbooks aren't "that bad". ;)
Hardly junk, and even their lowend isn't junk. I like the Macbook Air quite a
bit and recommend it often. Quality across the entire line is what I expect
from everyone, but it's why Apple is the best. They are even relatively
privacy conscious. Even if I'm a best of breed person.

Apple is so dominant in the quality realm that I would say their products are
best for everyone. You can't go wrong with a Mac, especially when sorting
through all the junk on the market to get to my X1 Extreme and Notebook 9 Pen
is honestly, fraught with peril. It requires good judgement and people often
fail at that. They will go for the lower-lines because they think they're the
"same" as the top of the line, and that's very much not true, outside of
Apple.

I would recommend most people just go to the Apple Store. None of it is junk,
and you have a store to take it to for repairs if you do have problems. Can't
beat it. Better than "good"\- best.

If I were dying, I would tell my wife to keep an eye on Consumer Reports, but
that she can safely continue to invest in Apple products for the foreseeable
future after my death. That's how strong their track record has been. I am one
that believes an organization can earn goodwill, not just anger and bad will.

------
yamato2022
They pay a good chunk of his salary, I assume?

~~~
CaliforniaKarl
As per
[https://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/](https://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/),
the Linux Foundation pays the salaries of Linux and Greg K-H. So Microsoft do
indeed indirectly pay for a part of their salaries; along with AT&T, Fujitsu,
Hitachi, NEC, VMware, Accenture, Juniper Networks, Toyota (the list of
corporate members is at
[https://www.linuxfoundation.org/membership/members/](https://www.linuxfoundation.org/membership/members/)),
plus all of the non-student Individual supporters
([https://www.linuxfoundation.org/membership/individual/](https://www.linuxfoundation.org/membership/individual/)).

------
pdonis
The claim that MS is "putting the Linux kernel at the heart of Windows 10 as
part of WSL 2" is an overstatement. If they really wanted to put the Linux
kernel at the heart of Windows, they would ditch the Windows kernel, which
would be no great loss, and make Windows a GUI over the Linux kernel.

~~~
nullbyte
The only problem with this is that there are thousands of business-critical
applications that are designed for the Windows NT kernel... Many of them have
deep integrations with the operating system.

Just think of all the Steam games that are only available on Windows!

~~~
Koshkin
> _designed for the Windows NT kernel_

I am sure you mean "designed for Win32 API."

~~~
morpheuskafka
Things like ATMs, industrial machinery, SCADA, real-time, embedded, etc.
likely have a number of kernel-mode device drivers.

