
A real fMRI high: My ecstasy brain scan - kisamoto
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn22280-a-real-fmri-high-my-ecstasy-brain-scan.html
======
matznerd
There are also similar therapeutic effects from taking mushrooms (psilocybin)
or LSD. In these studies and others with MDMA, it appears that the effect
lasts over a year.

( [http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jan/23/magic-
mushroom...](http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jan/23/magic-mushrooms-
psilocybin-depression-drug) )

For any of you HNers out there hesitant to utilizing any of these of
substances in your life, remember that they help change your perspective and
allow you to look at problems from new angles. I will leave you with a Steve
Jobs quote on the topic:

“Taking LSD was a profound experience, one of the most important things in my
life. LSD shows you that there’s﻿ another side to the coin, and you can’t
remember it when it wears off, but you know it. It reinforced my sense of what
was important—creating great things instead of making money, putting things
back into the stream of history and of human consciousness as much as I
could.”

~~~
alwaysinshade
> remember that they help change your perspective and allow you to look at
> problems from new angles

For anyone who thinks this is airy-fairy crap, I can provide a very real
example. I've been taking MDMA regularly for the last 6 months (~2 doses x 2
instances per month) and recently, after coming home while peaking I admitted
to my partner of 9 years how I'd been abused as a child by particular
relatives. I'd never told anyone up until that point, and it was what had been
driving my alcoholism since my early 20's (now early 30's). As I recalled some
of the details to her, what would have normally made me break down instead
made me reflect on those events. I moved those memories from a traumatic area
to a (for lack of a better phrase) "done and dusted" area. I made peace with
those people and made peace with myself. Since then my desire to drink to
excess has waned, and what was a constant anxiety is quickly fading.

For anyone who has a dark side, I recommend you try MDMA - especially in the
company of someone you love or trust.

~~~
zone411
I wouldn't want to tell you what to do with your own body, but I hope you
realize that at this usage frequency you are abusing this drug. The current
thinking is that such frequent use does not give your brain nearly enough time
to recover and can lead to serious negative life-long consequences, such as
depression. Another consequence worth looking up, if you didn't hear about it
previously, is so-called "loss of magic."

~~~
alwaysinshade
> I wouldn't want to tell you what to do with your own body, but I hope you
> realize that at this usage frequency you are abusing this drug.

I disagree. Twice a month (two pills /in one night/ ~ two weeks apart) and
doing it in a social situation isn't indicative of abuse or dependency. It's
indicative of recreational use.

> The current thinking is that such frequent use does not give your brain
> nearly enough time to recover and can lead to serious negative life-long
> consequences, such as depression.

You are correct regarding depression - at least on a temporary basis. However
the latest and most comprehensive study funded by NIDA has shown no marked
residual cognitive effects in ecstasy users. See my other comment for more
details including a link to the study:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4541273>

> if you didn't hear about it previously, is so-called "loss of magic."

I hadn't heard of it but I looked it up. My experience to date, having tried
different [MDMA] pills, is that you have mixed results. The most recent ones
I've taken have been the best in terms of shortest activation time, "peak" and
lack of come-down. It's likely correlated to the total MDMA content of the
pill. YMMV.

~~~
kin
I'm happy that your experiences has helped with your drinking but your usage
frequency is quite high even if 'recreational'. At the very least since you're
using different [MDMA] pills please be safe and use a test kit or only use
pure ones since there are a lot of people out there selling unclean presses
containing speed and meth that can seriously damage you at your current usage
rate.

------
adrianhoward
There's some background on one of the theories why MDMA may make make negative
memories less painful in this Wired piece (if you can get past the link bait
title :-)

[http://www.wired.com/magazine/2012/02/ff_forgettingpill/all/...](http://www.wired.com/magazine/2012/02/ff_forgettingpill/all/1)

Simplification: the act of recollection involves the memory being erased and
then rewritten. If you're "happy" when you rewrite it then some of the
negative emotions get knocked off for the next time you recall it.

------
crntaylor
I'm really glad that someone is doing this research. I first heard about the
potential benefits of MDMA in therapy at a talk by David Nutt some years ago,
but he was skeptical that we would be able to investigate it further because
of tough restrictions around research into illegal drugs.

In case anyone is not already aware, David Nutt was the head of the Advisory
Council on the Misuse of Drugs (ACMD), a scientific advisory body to the UK
government. In 2009 he published an editorial comparing the harm from taking
ecstasy (MDMA) to the harm from horse riding (in short, you can make a
powerful case that horse riding is much more dangerous than taking ecstasy).
In October 2009 he was dismissed from his position, because "he cannot be both
a government adviser and a campaigner against government policy."

In my view it was a terrible decision by the UK government, and showcased
their reluctance to make evidence-based decisions on politically charged
subjects (like drugs, prison sentences, immigration etc). Since then, David
Nutt has formed the Independent Scientific Committee on Drugs (ISCD), whose
website [1] is well worth visiting if you want the most up to date and
scientifically reliable information on drugs.

[1] <http://www.drugscience.org.uk/>

~~~
glaugh
Nutt also wrote a pretty solid book about the data on the harms of various
drugs (legal and illegal), and how best to reduce that harm as a society.

[http://www.amazon.com/Drugs-Without-Hot-David-
Nutt/dp/190686...](http://www.amazon.com/Drugs-Without-Hot-David-
Nutt/dp/1906860165/)

edit: Economist review of said book: <http://www.economist.com/node/21560223>

------
niho
"The hypothesis was that MDMA would make the negative memories less painful."

Recreational use of MDMA has given me panic attacks, increased anxiety,
emotional dependence and depression. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence
online that tells the same story, which is something you rarely hear anyone
talk about. It seems like different people respond differently to MDMA.
Perhaps it's dependent on your personality or brain chemistry. For people like
me the effect on the serotonin system in the brain can be very dangerous and
sometimes cause permanent damage.

I used to be very liberal towards drug use in general until I experienced the
down sides first hand.

~~~
pchivers
It's highly unlikely that you were using pure MDMA.

[http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/02/05/ecstasy-related-
deat...](http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/02/05/ecstasy-related-deaths-in-b-
c-alberta-sparking-debate-over-how-to-fix-poisonous-problem/)

"Ecstasy is so consistently adulterated that when pure MDMA turns up on the
street, it’s likely be to sold on the street under the name MDMA or sometimes
“Molly.” Corporal Luc Chicoine, the national co-ordinator for the RCMP’s
pharmaceutical and synthetic drug operations, has worked on the street in drug
operations for 18 years and said he can’t remember ever seeing pure MDMA."

[http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/19/deaths-spur-
research...](http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/19/deaths-spur-research-
into-exactly-whats-in-little-pills-calling-themselves-ecstasy-hint-it-isnt-
always-mdma/)

"For a sense of just what might be in a given pill, Hudson points to
Ecstasydata.org — a Sacramento-based website listing active ingredients and
proportions in mailed-in samples — which has tested thousands of hits of
“ecstasy” since 2001.

A growing majority contain no ecstasy at all. Since 2010, 61% of 533 samples
tested had no MDMA, with 111 containing the drug, and another 96 some
combination of MDMA and other chemicals. Of 27 Canadian samples studied since
2010, 14 active chemicals were discovered, including caffeine,
methamphetamine, benzylpiperazine (BZP) and procaine."

~~~
ebf
I was under the impression that ecstasy is mdma + an upper, while molly is
"pure" mdma.

~~~
jiggy2011
Never rely on "street names" or what the drug dealer tells you it is. It's 90%
bullshit.

------
jmtame
If you still (incorrectly) believe that MDMA causes "holes in your brain"
(referring to a retracted study where the instrumentation was not calibrated
properly over-exaggerating how much MDMA affects serotonin levels) or
Parkinson's disease (referring to a retracted study about how labels were
incorrectly placed on bottles and monkeys were administered very high doses of
methamphetamine and not the MDMA) I strongly recommend watching Ecstasy
Rising: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjvNCijeYlI>

The short version is that there is lots of DEA-funded propaganda and
verifiably flawed scientific studies out there. Buddhist monks and therapists
have used MDMA before in their practice where they claim that one dose of MDMA
is equivalent to a full year of couples therapy. I'm really glad more research
is going on in the open about MDMA; for too long it's just been the DEA using
fear mongering.

------
easy_rider
I'm suprised that he had to return a week later for another session. MDMA
tolerance should be counted as a huge factor. I'm not sure if this is
accidental or not. Although 83mg is not a big dose, and shouldn't be
neurotoxic, without any supplements like 5-htp or other precursors to
serotonin, it's pretty tough for your serotonin levels to return to baseline
in a week time.

~~~
nicholassmith
I don't know all of the protocol involved in the testing process but as Nutt
is involved I think they're possibly trying to simulate the real world effects
of repeat usage, the average user wouldn't be aware of 5-htp.

------
macey
This has been going on at the veteran's hospital in SF for quite some time
now. Great potential for PTSD treatment progress.

------
blendergasket
First I want to say that it's infuriating that the healing experiences
described in this thread are illegal. I don't want to speculate on why this is
the case, but I find it fascinating that anti-depressants are legal but drugs
like MDMA and Mushrooms are illegal even though they've been shown to be
profoundly and positively influence the lives of the people who use them,
helping them work through and get past the issues that are the root cause of
their persistent negative emotions.

Psychedelics have become a small but important part of my spiritual practice,
yet I do not belong to Santo Daime or the UDV so my practice is illegal. I
find it strange and quite sad that a person following his or her own path is
not granted the same legal rights as someone who chooses a path with the
defined structure of a church. I guess we haven't gotten past persecuting our
alchemists and witches yet.

Mushrooms, MDMA, DMT, are category 1 drugs in the US, which means that there
is no known medical use for them according to the government. This is a very
sad joke.

------
quadrant6
Goes without saying that pure MDMA and "Ecstasy" as many people know it (from
a dealer, friend) are two very different things.

------
fl3tch
"This is my eye, captured by a mini TV camera mounted inside the machine. This
camera isn't a normal fixture but was installed by the TV production company
filming the experiment for a documentary. The pupil is widely dilated, one of
the outward signs I have been given MDMA. The inward signs are pretty obvious
too."

This is why it's impossible to do a truly double blind study of this kind. So
you give them MDMA or psilocybin and ask if it helped their PTSD therapy or if
they had a religious experience, and they are more likely to say yes.

------
anjc
Am i missing some of the article, or does it just not give any hint at the
outcome of the MRI?

I remember, years ago, seeing brain scans showing something like serotonin
receptors before MDMA usage, and months after, and if i remember right, things
hadn't gotten back to normal long after. Anyone know anything about the long
term effects?

~~~
gnosis
Here's what Alexander Shulgin[1] had to say[2] in response to a similar
question on the subject:

    
    
      Dear Dr. Shulgin:
    
      Lately I've been hearing a lot of talk about how every
      time you take ecstasy it does permanent damage to the
      brain. I've also heard that ecstasy puts holes in the
      brain. Are these statements true?
    
        -- Road Dog
    
      Dear Road Dog:
    
      No, they are not. The "permanent brain damage" is based
      totally on studies done with experimental animals, with
      the findings extrapolated to encompass the human subject.
      In a simple statement, there have been no studies in man
      that have indicated brain damage.
    
      The "holes in the brain" is an even more outrageous
      deception. These popular holes are areas in brain scans
      that appear less active in attracting radiolabelled agents
      that are agonists for certain receptor site areas. The
      pictures that are shown for comparison are not of the same
      person with or without MDMA in them, but of different
      people, one of whom has used a lot of ecstasy and the
      other one without any such history. The quintessence of
      this line of mythology is an article that appeared
      recently in the Willamette Week. It not only assured the
      reader that there were holes generated by serotonin loss,
      but that they became flooded with dopamine (the default
      neurotransmitter) and, being attacked by hydrogen
      peroxide, produced rust.
    
      Sorry, drug warriors. No damage, no holes, no rust.
    
        -- Dr. Shulgin
    

I can also strongly recommend reading the information on MDMA (and other
psychoactive substances) on erowid.org[3]

[1] - <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Shulgin>

[2] -
[http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/adsarchive/brainhole...](http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/adsarchive/brainholes.htm)

[3] - <https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma.shtml>

------
rogerclark
this article doesn't say anything

------
chm
It's important that such research is done, but there's a caveat. Usually,
people will take MDMA for pleasure, in a peaceful setting - not in an MRI
machine.

I wonder to what extent this can affect the readings of the MRI. Any brain
scientist in the crowd?

------
ihavebeenseen
Always the red pill, so you know how deep the rabbit hole goes.

------
nthitz
When I saw the photo caption: "Welcome back, Graham. My, what big eyes you
have" I thought this was about PG! Alas..

------
nerdfiles
Anecdotal, I must admit, but bereavement may be best resolved through MDMA, I
find. That's in response to:

'The hypothesis was that MDMA would make the negative memories less painful.
"We saw a boosted brain response to positive memories, and a weaker response
to negative ones," says Carhart-Harris. "It fits the idea that MDMA can help
people access negative memories without being overwhelmed by them and they
might be able to change the way they feel about what happened."'

I have Asperger's, and so not only have I a pallid response to gore or human
pain but I can understand it, visualize it, repeat it in thought, allot it a
mental space. Horrific murder is latent with images, which I believe only
become a growing gestalt in the mind's of those humans with Optimally
Performing Long-Term Memories. It is perpetual moral education, as if with an
admonishing tone, on the significance of human life. The morbid sense of humor
which Aspies tend to develop becomes a fatal flaw in a world incapable of
sustaining its own net happiness. (News which promulgates, indirectly, our Net
Unhappiness Quotient. -- News becomes the Negative Nancy to unwitting
optimists, aspie or otherwise. Granted, good news without explanation is
pointless, and News' marketing format is non-amenable to Demonstration,
Explanation, Maturation, and Observation (DEMO) of Knowledge.)

Of course a point is often made that industrial capitalism depends on a
sufficiently self-imposed unhappiness, otherwise "no one would work," etc. The
cost, however, is that those who can remember what is good in "bargain
reality," and remember it well, flack and flail at those who are habitually
forgetful, habitually like an agent whose sense of time must be perpetually
engineered for them.

MDMA does not "wake one up" but established a greater memory retention for
those events existentially nurturing to one's happiness.

~~~
msutherl
"MDMA does not 'wake one up' but establishes a greater memory retention for
those events existentially nurturing to one's happiness."

Indeed, though I would add that, in addition to increasing memory retention,
it makes possible events that are themselves more existentially nurturing than
one would normally experience.

The first experience on MDMA is often the most seratonin one has ever 'felt',
which is to say it is often the 'happiest' one has ever felt (though it is a
very specific kind of happiness).

The memory of that experience can set, if you will, a new bar for how 'good'
life can be.

~~~
dreamdu5t
Can't upvote this enough.

