
Tarsnap logo contest - cperciva
http://mail.tarsnap.com/tarsnap-users/msg00678.html
======
ericdykstra
I think you would end up with a better logo if you just did a call to your
mailing list for designer recommendations, and paid a real designer $500 for a
few hours of their work to come up with their best effort.

By opening a contest, you're not only going to get a much lower quality of
submissions, but in the end, the final decision is going to be made by you,
someone "useless at anything artistic".

Paying a designer $500 won't get you a full brand identity makeover, but
that's not what you're going for. You should be able to find a talented
designer who will spend an hour discussing what you want to get our of your
logo, some time going over a number of their own ideas, and then wrap up the
project and give you the sizes you need and a vector file if you ever need to
scale your logo up or down.

~~~
cperciva
_in the end, the final decision is going to be made by you, someone "useless
at anything artistic"._

That's a fair point... but I do know what Tarsnap is, and it's not exactly
"typical". I don't know how many non-tarsnap-using designers would come up
with something which is consistent with the rest of the "tarsnap brand".

~~~
ericdykstra
Well, part of the $500 would presumably be talking through the goals of the
project, what message you want to convey with the logo, how you might want to
extend the Tarsnap brand in the future, etc.

To put it another way, if you needed to roll out a new feature for Tarsnap but
couldn't do it yourself, would you hire someone on contract, or do a contest
for it?

~~~
tptacek
He just wants something cool looking and memorable for the FreeBSD sponsors
page and for his website. This is part of the problem with paying for
designers (something I've done a bunch of times, to varying effect) --- they
want to have a conversation about your brand and the message of the logo. No
doubt there are productive conversations like that to be had with good
designers --- but not in $500 logo projects.

~~~
rcgs
To pay someone $500 and then not want to spend an hour with them making them
understand your product/idea/whatever seems like a bit of a waste of money to
me, likely making the results hit and miss.

Or have I misunderstood and you're saying that for $500 finding a designer
than can hold that conversation is unlikely?

~~~
tptacek
I think he will have a hard time getting a qualified designer to take a $500
project seriously. I have no doubt he can get _something_ for $500, but it
won't be something he likes.

~~~
miloshadzic
You are right if you focus solely on designers from countries with a high cost
of living. I'm pretty sure the friend who did my little shop's logo(you can
see it at [http://rightfold.io](http://rightfold.io)) could make something
that Colin likes for less than 500$.

------
jasonkester
I've said it before and I'm saying it again: It needs to be a parsnip.

That's what springs to mind when you hear the name of your company, so that's
what you need for a logo.

Here are a few options:

[https://www.google.com/search?q=parsnip](https://www.google.com/search?q=parsnip)

~~~
tptacek
I think a parsnip would also be an _awesome_ logo.

Before you discount it, remember that Sourcefire has a goofy looking cartoon
pig.

~~~
eps
Yeah, but snout is a great concept for something that involves sniffing.
Parsnip on the other hand just goes well with pancetta.

~~~
eropple
_Tarsnap: for secure recipe storage._

------
eps
"Design contest" to a designer is what "prototype me my facebook idea" to a
programmer. You will be laughed out of the room by professional designers at
best, so what you will end up with a clipart logo based on a ripped concept
done by someone who has zero idea of what tarsnap is (but who _really_ needs
your 500 bucks).

Do the right thing, Colin, call this thing off, take an hour to go through
logopond and dribbble and email a dozen of guys you like. $500 is a good
budget to get a good logo.

EDIT - alternatively, just pick a good sans font (something that you
personally like and that matches well what you think tarsnap is about -
simplicity, clarity, reliability, etc.), take a semibold or bold weight, type
"tarsnip" in lowercase letters, kern it tightly and you got yourself a clean
and concise wordmark.

~~~
anologwintermut
And yet I bet he will get results and they will look good enough, even if you
and everyone else who considers themselves a designer laughs at him.

He can actually judge the logos he gets and choose the best one (or
potentially non at all). Designs don't have anything close to a monopoly on
good(enough) taste.

Evaluating the quality of a code base, on the other hand, requires close to
enough skill that you probably could write it your self. It's not analogous.

------
srgseg
[http://www.one-tab.com/web/images/tarsnap.png](http://www.one-
tab.com/web/images/tarsnap.png)

A castle and medieval font to convey security and resilience

Use of a font with a distinctive R to help it appear as TAR-SNAP and not TARS-
NAP

A monospaced font with underscores to convey that this for the UNIX command
line

Subtle gold/silver colors that convey a history of widely acknowledged value
and future longevity

Font:
[http://www.fontsquirrel.com/fonts/metamorphous](http://www.fontsquirrel.com/fonts/metamorphous)
(free) Castle: [http://3docean.net/item/door-
castle/4004680](http://3docean.net/item/door-castle/4004680) ($32 licence
required)

Please feel free to use/build on this concept if you like it, I waive my
rights to this logo design.

~~~
ape4
Not bad. I think that castle is somewhat busy for a logo.

~~~
weaksauce
Maybe just the silhouette would work.

------
noir_lord
[http://i.imgur.com/UP5d3gH.png](http://i.imgur.com/UP5d3gH.png)

edit: [http://imgur.com/k6elBCU](http://imgur.com/k6elBCU) with masthead

Not a professional designer but I like mucking around in inkscape and it was a
fun way to avoid work.

~~~
selmnoo
Oh Gosh, that was all done in Inkspace? Pretty impressive, I'll have to check
that program out.

~~~
noir_lord
Yep entirely in inkcsape.

It's a fantastic program even to a developer type like me, it also has _really
really_ good PDF import which is useful sometimes :).

------
prawn
A good way to make sure that the designer gets the full fee (without losing a
commission to 99designs or by them participating in a design contest with no
guarantee of getting paid) is to choose one designer and offer them the $500.

Does the interest in design contests stem from a fear of paying and getting
something you might not like? Or not knowing what you might like until you see
it?

~~~
cperciva
I have no idea what I might like. I'm hoping to get some discussion and
sharing of ideas -- including from people who don't have any interest in or
ability to actually produce a logo themselves.

If I knew that, say, I wanted a graphic of a piece of tar being snapped in
half, I'd look for an artist and say "here's $500, please draw this for me".
But given that I have no idea what I want, I figure the more people I invite
to provide ideas the better.

~~~
dpapathanasiou
_But given that I have no idea what I want, I figure the more people I invite
to provide ideas the better._

You can just do what Steve Jobs did with Next: pick a designer you like, and
leave it entirely up to him.

Ironically not because Jobs didn't have ideas on what he wanted but because
the designer insisted:

 _" I asked him if he would come up with a few options, and he said, 'No, I
will solve your problem for you and you will pay me. You don’t have to use the
solution. If you want options go talk to other people.'"_

[http://www.logodesignlove.com/next-logo-paul-
rand](http://www.logodesignlove.com/next-logo-paul-rand)

~~~
tptacek
That worked because Jobs could contract Paul Rand. Colin has $500 to spend.

------
tvanantwerp
By using a contest format and only offering $500 to the winner, you're
significantly limiting the talent pool of designers. Designers who are good--
and know that they are--probably wouldn't design a logo for a guaranteed $500,
much less for an effectively random chance of payment.

Maybe you don't really care if it's a very good logo, or if you're
collaborating with a professional who can walk you through the process of
discovering what you want. (You do want something, trust me--you just won't
know it for sure until you start rejecting the things you don't want.) And
that's fine--it's your choice. If your business is doing fine without an
awesome logo or a slick brand, then good job!

But if you really do want something professional, something that can be built
out into a bigger brand, and something that someone put a lot of thought into,
then this is the wrong way to go.

I wouldn't hold a contest for $500 for a developer to write a piece of code
for me. Why would I do it for a logo?

------
da_n
Here is the idea I submitted, uses Deja Vu monospace for the font. The shape
is a bolt, and I am trying to go for the idea of industrial strength and
security.

[http://dev.bitmono.com/tarsnap/tarsnap.png](http://dev.bitmono.com/tarsnap/tarsnap.png)

~~~
graue
This one is my favorite so far :) Very sleek. But I wish it distinguished
"tar" and "snap" to give a subtle cue as to pronunciation. What if the "tar"
part were set in a slightly heavier weight?

~~~
da_n
Thanks and an interesting idea, I can see where you're coming from. I have
tried it with a bolder font on the tar, it does hint more as to how to
pronounce it.

[http://dev.bitmono.com/tarsnap/tarsnap-
variation.png](http://dev.bitmono.com/tarsnap/tarsnap-variation.png)

------
6ren
On the topic of brand, I always read "tarsnap" as "tarsnip" \- like a parsnip.

I think I get the name (unix `tar` plus a snapshot or securely locked in).
It's not lack of familiarity - I've known about it for years, and even have an
account.

I doubt you're keen on a name change, but "tarlock" would avoid this.

Or... a parsnip as a logo.

 _EDIT_ how bizarre! The instant I commented this, jasonkester made the same
suggestion.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6462378](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6462378)

------
AnotherDesigner
I've wrote about this a few times on HN before. You guys like to downvote me
every time I do but here we go again ...

Good designers, the ones you want if this is important to you, don't do
contests. We have families to feed and bills to pay. "Winning" a popularity
contest, not based on substance but instead on style, doesn't allow us to
support ourself and our families doing our work. So, who are the designers
doing these contests? Well, besides the large number of completely untrained
laypeople, it's mostly students wanting beer money and portfolio pieces. And
lets face it, most designers need many years beyond school before they're
anything approaching "good" at their craft. Those years are spent doing grunt
work with increasing amounts of responsibility under senior designers, art
directors, creative directors, whatever.

My second point about that is how rare it is to win a contest. Designers know
that they're often designing blind here. They could spend all the time in the
world creating the perfect brand and the client could choose something else
because they don't like the color blue or they're scared of clown logos or
whatever. Point is, the client is often hardly objective in these situations
and the designers know this. What does this mean in practicality? They are
going to put as little effort as possible in to this because the chances of
reward are small. Personally, I'd love to see the average amount of time spent
on these logo entries. I bet most of them are well under 10 minutes.

Legal issues. I'll skim here because I don't have my links handy but most of
these contest websites have been caught with stolen logos in their
submissions. Companies have been sued for using these logos from contest
websites costing them thousands of dollars they didn't expect. It happens and
when the "designer" is some anonymous guy across the world, you have no
recourse but to pay the fees, lawyer fees and then pay to do your logo all
over again. Not to mention the embarrassment to your company when this
happens. This stuff is very, very rare for clients working with designers
face-to-face.

Lastly, when you're missing the face-to-face collaboration between designer
and client, you're also missing most of what makes design "design", instead of
art. The research as well as most of the creative process tends to go missing.
The designer starts to view the client as the ones to design for instead of
the "user" and as a result, the logo/brand/whatever becomes less effective.
And you know what? A lot of important questions go missing ... like what are
your plans for the future? What is your strategy to deal with your
competitors? Even simple things like "am I making the logo for the company,
the product or both" ... changes in company strategy are rarely mentioned in
logo contests and this could be the most important question in the world.
Logos need to be adaptable to company strategy and that strategy needs to be
talking out between company and designer. Often NDAs are signed beforehand,
good luck doing that with on a contest.

~~~
cperciva
_Good designers, the ones you want if this is important to you, don 't do
contests._

I'm not looking for a good designer. I'm looking for a hacker (ideally a unix
hacker) who happens to have some design skills.

~~~
huhtenberg
Then you should've not offered the $ reward. This motivates wrong kind of
people and sure as hell it does _not_ do much to motivate a "hacker with some
design skills".

~~~
ceejayoz
Who gives a flying fuck?

If someone was going to make a free Tarsnap logo, they're unlikely to be
_deterred_ by the possibility of a small reward for it.

The only downside to the "wrong kind of people" entering is more entries to
look through. Who cares what kind of person they are if the logo's good?

~~~
huhtenberg
There are people who _really_ need those $500 (think - 3rd world countries
where this is a luxurious sum on money) and who will enter because they are
desperate. Then he makes a face, flips a finger and says it wasn't good
enough. Does it not stink to you even one bit?

Of course contestants realize that they aren't likely to win, but if he's
doing the right thing by setting up a mud wrestling match? I personally think
he's not, so I do give a fuck.

------
neilk
Did a sketch of an idea here:

[https://github.com/neilk/tarsnap-
logo/blob/master/tarsnap.pn...](https://github.com/neilk/tarsnap-
logo/blob/master/tarsnap.png)

I wanted to get away from castles and locks and such. You can check out the
README if you want to know what my thought process was, but it should be
distinctive and appealing without an explanation.

~~~
jyap
I quite like it.

Note that the font is not free. From the fine print: Use by more than 25
Users, or equivalent Website Visitors, is a breach of this Free Licence
Agreement, and instead requires a commercial licence.

~~~
neilk
Thanks.

About the license - you are correct. I was under the impression this font was
already distributed via Google Fonts, but I was wrong.

It's a very nice font, and just costs $67.00. But it could also be swapped for
a font with a less restrictive license.

------
dmix
Glad to see Tarsnap investing in branding/identity.

I like how Colin adopted prgmr.com style of appealing to the technical minded
for it's website design/documentation. A simple logo wouldn't hurt.

~~~
cperciva
_A simple logo wouldn 't hurt._

I'm certainly not opposed to having a simple logo. I want to see what people
come up with. :-)

------
cschmidt
How about:

Tarsnap: a guard dog for your backup data

An then your logo is the very stylized face of a bulldog, looking straight on.
The word tarsnap is set to the right of the dog face for the full logo. You
can use the face by itself for the favicon etc.

I think the word 'snap' has a lot of dog connotation to me. A dog snapping at
your heals. The dog snapping at the mailman. And a guard dog is a pretty good
metaphor for your product. It keeps things safe and protected from the bad
guys.

Also, to have a 'mascot' like logo fits in with the penguins, devils, ponies,
etc. You can make it stylized to project a "serious, reliable" image, rather
than cartoon like.

If you like my suggestion, take the $500, and hire my favorite designer,
tywilkins.com. You get a much better result than me trying my hand. The
problem with a $500 budget is you don't have a the time to explore a lot of
options. At $100/hour, you just have 5 hours. But that might be enough time to
draw an already fleshed out idea.

------
daviddaviddavid
How about snapping fingers?

Something like: [http://mobiusband.com/blog/wp-
content/uploads/2008/06/finger...](http://mobiusband.com/blog/wp-
content/uploads/2008/06/finger_snap.jpg)

But less detailed and with something that indicates noise emanating from the
fingers.

Sorry for being too lazy to take a stab at implementing the idea.

------
cromulent
Choose one of these:

[http://codepoints.net/mathematical_operators](http://codepoints.net/mathematical_operators)

I suggest ⊷ "Image of".

[http://codepoints.net/U+22B7](http://codepoints.net/U+22B7)

~~~
cperciva
Interesting idea! I think "multiset union: might be the most appropriate:
[http://codepoints.net/U+228E](http://codepoints.net/U+228E)

~~~
currywurst
true, but the "image of" gives ideas of "two entities related by a link".

------
AdamMeghji
My version of the logo: [http://imgur.com/Laxvw7E](http://imgur.com/Laxvw7E)

The logo is the wheel on a cassette, which is a fun throwback to the tape
days, inspired by TAR -> Tape ARchiver.

------
vicbrooker
Considering Tarsnap doesn't have a GUI I'd suggest a text-only logo -
something like Tarsnap_ for a full logo and then just T_ for social media
icons/favicon/128x128.

I can put something together but at the end of the day it's just changing
fonts until there's a winner.

Colin, if you're interested in the idea and there's a particular font/color
you would like used let me know and I'll make the pngs for you. Don't stress
about payment, it's quick and easy for me to do.

~~~
gingerlime
my thoughts exactly. In my very non-artistic, unimportant opinion, the last
thing tarsnap needs is yet another logo with a padlock / key / chain / castle
/ fortress / shield / guard / dog.

These security-related icons are so frequently (ab)used that I'm getting a
strong urge not to use any product that relies on them to symboloze its
security.

~~~
cperciva
_the last thing tarsnap needs is yet another logo with a padlock / key / chain
/ castle / fortress / shield / guard / dog._

I'm inclined to agree... I'm not saying it's impossible to produce a good logo
with one of these, but I'd need to see something really inspiring to put up
with a cliche.

~~~
tptacek
How about heraldry + block mode diagram?

We did CBC mode in "tattoo flash" style.

(I'm seriously considering another take on block mode diagrams for a tattoo).

------
parennoob
I suppose tarsnap is named like 'portsnap', which you also wrote, but what is
the thought process behind calling _that_ 'portsnap'? That might help
stimulate some ideas and suggestions.

I am assuming it's not a piece of tar snapped in half. Although sometimes,
having the FreeBSD ports system compile perl and python from scratch when I am
trying to install emacs does make me want to snap it in half (yes, yes, I know
I am not the model FreeBSD user, et cetera :))

~~~
cperciva
portsnap = SNAPshots of the FreeBSD PORTs tree

tarsnap = TAR backups, in a SNAPshotted model (vs. incremental backups). I
also liked the fact that it reminded FreeBSD users of portsnap, which is a
very popular tool.

~~~
SwellJoe
I understood the name immediately, but always considered it an awful name for
most "normal" users. But, maybe UNIX culture will win in the end and "tar"
will become a word everyone knows.

~~~
cperciva
Tarsnap users almost always already know what tar is. The fact that tarsnap
has a tar command line -- i.e., one they already know -- is a big deal for a
lot of tarsnap users.

------
nilved
Nothing on tarsnap.com will load for me in Luakit (WebKit) on Arch Linux. Has
anybody else had this problem?

~~~
cperciva
This is the first I've heard of any problems... please let me know if you
figure out what's breaking for you.

------
coherentpony
Slightly off topic, but is there a way to have tarsnap back up to my own
server instead of S3?

~~~
cperciva
No, the tarsnap client needs the tarsnap server.

~~~
X-Istence
Will you ever make the tarsnap server available?

------
sgt
Here's my proposal, very simplistic and based on the inconsolata font (which
is licensed under an Open Font license). Original artwork is SVG.
[http://imgur.com/SVOZTC6](http://imgur.com/SVOZTC6)

~~~
bambax
Interesting, but there's a big hole between the r and the s (tar (...) snap).

~~~
sgt
Thanks - will move them a bit closer.

------
samweinberg
I'm normally against the idea of spec work, but I think it makes sense for an
open source project. People contribute code, sometimes even copy and graphics
to open source projects, so what's the problem with crowd-sourcing a logo?

------
webehpi
here's a sketch of a small idea that came to my mind:
[http://i.imgur.com/ZaIR5yD.png](http://i.imgur.com/ZaIR5yD.png)

... basic idea was: "box" \- not very original, but imho appropriate when
thinking of storing things. as illustrated on the right, the form is the
intersection of the shapes on the three visible faces of the box. the two in
the front make up the "T" and on top is a very minimal "S". i thought of this
intersection as a simple visual analogy of encryption.

wouldn't consider this a final logo - probably there could be done some more
work on the details.

------
underdown
I have used tarsnap for a while now and id be willing to bet this hacker news
post will get him more business than a well designed logo. Have you seen the
site? It looks like ass. Didnt stop me from trying it great service btw.

------
ihenriksen
Have a look at [http://logo.designcrowd.com/](http://logo.designcrowd.com/)
for logo design crowding, my company did it and is very happy with the result.
Don't cost much.

------
niels_olson
Beastie leaning an elbow on a treasure chest, looking cool, as though it were
a bar. Cool like he's taken down marauding hordes with his bare hands so
keeping you away from that box isn't even a thing.

~~~
cperciva
Can't do it -- beastie is trademarked, and Kirk only licenses it for BSD
things.

~~~
niels_olson
Then a turtle or a sloth.

------
moonie1
my take, a bit simple: [http://imgur.com/JBnLjgL](http://imgur.com/JBnLjgL)

Font is consolas

------
lazugod
An asterisk encased in amber.

------
contextual
Design a logo contests are tacky. It reveals a lack of understanding of your
own brand and it's bad marketing. Go out and hire a professional graphic
designer.

