
Storms and Teacups - ilovecomputers
http://acko.net/blog/storms-and-teacups/
======
Smudge
As I read this, I found myself trying to pinpoint the bits of text that would
inevitably be cherry-picked by others for the sake of argument (or simply to
make Steven Wittens look bad for having written this piece).

And, while there are certainly quotes that could be misconstrued, I had a hard
time seeing how anyone could take away part of this without at least
acknowledging the rest. Yes, the author touches on some uncomfortable topics.
Yes, I can see how someone might find certain arguments upsetting, or even
offensive. At the very least, not everyone will agree with every point Wittens
makes.

But the take-away, at least for me, was how vast the grey area is between the
"sides" of these topics, and also how much of what we perceive (about people,
sexism, and the tech industry as a whole) happens within a bubble. That there
are a ton of related and important issues in the wider context, which fail to
get addressed when the discussions are so narrow in scope.

There are plenty of other take-aways too, and perhaps I'm missing something
that someone else will point out, but overall I found this piece really
refreshing, especially after a the other discussions I've read lately, on HN
and elsewhere.

\------------

Note: I originally responded on this link, which is now dead:

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5434142>

------
AdrianRossouw
This is my favorite line from the article :

Judging a book by its cover is the new tolerance. We throw people into the
stocks based on feelings while ignoring intent and assuming victimhood. This
is why I fundamentally disagree with equating offense with harassment: it
provides unlimited ammo and shuts down discussion rather than giving people
the benefit of doubt. It elevates the exception to the norm, by presuming the
worst.

------
ripperdoc
Very well written. However, I believe he takes the conclusion one step too
far. As he says, the issue is complex. The problem can be _both_ sexism and
narcissism. The issues can co-exist. Clearly, a lot of women have to deal with
a plenty of vile crap. One can be active against rape threats and also _at the
same time_ speak out against those that misuse important issues to brew stormy
cups of tea.

------
stefantalpalaru
The best analysis on the subject I have seen so far. The fact that "the most
reasonable people are now afraid to speak their mind" is a strong indicator
that we're heading the wrong way.

~~~
code177
I believe this is true, and I have a theory that these public spectacles are
fuelled and perpetuated primarily by the simple fact that anyone with well
reasoned, rational responses tend to keep quiet in fear of being drawn into an
ugly discourse - leaving the metaphorical inmates to run the prison.

~~~
pyre
Much in the same way that most reasonable people don't go into the circus that
is politics?

------
heurist
_Ever since then, I treat the internet like I would a lovable-but-backwards
grandparent, who makes racist comments over Christmas dinner. Yes Grandma,
it's all the damn commie jews and faggots' fault, now, who wants dessert?_

This is key. I can't be responsible for the feelings of every person who
overhears anything I say. If I say something offensive, call me an ass and
move on because I'm not worth giving any attention to.

------
walrus
There's some more discussion on a [dead] duplicate link:
<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5434142>

------
googletron
I am the author of the neckbeardrepublic.com that he linked to and I went to
great length not to let the name of the site take away from the content and
the community I am trying to build.

5% of my subscribers are women, which hopefully goes to show that they too
seem to understand lighthearted poke at ourselves.

<https://www.neckbeardrepublic.com/faqs/>

------
mijustin
_They weren't talking about me, they were talking about themselves._

Often, when people (myself included) write comments we're making an instant,
gut reaction. We might have only read the title, the tl;dr, or heard second-
hand. But it ignites our insecurity and we lash out. We're no longer wrestling
with the author's thesis, we're focused entirely on ourselves.

------
jamesmiller5

      "If you're ready for a build server so pretty you could take it to the prom.."
    

The issue I have with this tweet is that it implies one would not take ugly
people, regardless of gender, to prom and comes off as shallow. I also don't
think it's a stretch to come to this conclusion as any other generally
excepted positive attribute could have been substituted for "pretty" such as
"awesome", "fun", etc which wouldn't have the same implications. No, I
wouldn't take someone un-fun to prom, just like I wouldn't use an un-fun build
server (or at least I wouldn't buy one).

Is there some context or interpretation I'm missing that implies otherwise?

------
olgeni
> For fuck's sake, way to exhibit absolutely no understanding whatsoever of
> the subtleties of patriarchy. Get educated.

Now I cannot stop wondering what kind of patriarchal horror is hiding in
robotfindskitten.

------
niuzeta
why isn't this more discussed?

~~~
pyre
Because:

    
    
      The most reasonable people are now afraid to speak
      their mind. They rightly fear being shamed and
      harassed by those who scream the loudest of abuse.

~~~
arcwhite
Allegedly. I see plenty of people speaking their minds, on either side of the
issue, and many of them are reasonable. I'm left to wonder how one can be so
certain that 'the most reasonable people' (by what metric? In whose
judgement?) are 'afraid to speak their mind'.

~~~
sekhat
Because the most reasonable people will have well thought out and reasoned
arguments and will have tried pretty hard to understand the problem from all
sides that it has. And you rarely see that in anything on the internet that is
difficult to talk about, you see a lot of quick fire, purely emotional
responses.

------
taylorlapeyre
Unrelated to the topic, but holy cow that website looks amazing!

