
Why I Would Raise Chickens - kuusisto
https://www.gatesnotes.com/Development/Why-I-Would-Raise-Chickens
======
paganel
My parents live in a village in Eastern Europe with less than $2 a day (I also
chip in to financially help them), and they do indeed raise chickens, they've
being doing that for the last 15 years or so, since they moved out to the
countryside.

Bill Gates is correct in his assessment, it's way more profitable to raise
chickens than, say, cows. You need to have a bigger barn for cows, you need to
do all the hay thing, which is very time consuming and demands a lot of extra
work just for feeding said cows, you need to pay someone to take care of the
cows when they go out to eat in the summer on the communal field. It's easier
to just barter your chickens' eggs for some milk or cheese, that's at least
what my mom does.

It's also quite profitable to grow beans and cabbage. They preserve well over
winter well into spring and you can also use them for bartering.

~~~
Houshalter
> it's way more profitable to raise chickens than, say, cows. You need to have
> a bigger barn for cows, you need to do all the hay thing, which is very time
> consuming and demands a lot of extra work just for feeding said cows, you
> need to pay someone to take care of the cows when they go out to eat in the
> summer on the communal field.

This is surprising to me. Of course a cow should be more work to raise than a
chicken. But it has so many times more meat on it than a chicken, and is more
energy efficient per calorie consumed too.

Similarly with beans and cabbage. They might be easier to grow, but in terms
of calories they seem much less efficient than, say, potatoes.

If this was addressed in the article, sorry. It's just a blank page on my
browser.

~~~
paganel
> They might be easier to grow, but in terms of calories they seem much less
> efficient than, say, potatoes

I agree about potatoes, but that only works for relatively cooler climates,
i.e. places like Poland or Ireland. It can easily get to 35-37 degrees Celsius
in the summer at the place where my parents live (not to mention places like
the Indian subcontinent or Africa), at which point storing potatoes becomes a
challenge.

> But it has so many times more meat on it than a chicken, and is more energy
> efficient per calorie consumed too.

It's all about the return on investment. Raising cows only becomes financially
viable once you pass a certain number threshold (meaning big farms), otherwise
you're pretty much doing voluntary work. It's a lot of work in order to feed a
cow, I mean, lots and lots of work, and said work is pretty effective in
burning calories. A lot of farmers in the European Union who are in the cow-
raising business (I'd say most) wouldn't make it without financial help from
the EU and from their governments.

I'd say that goats are a lot better option if you really need meat. They feed
practically on everything (cows are a lot more picky) and they're smaller, so
they're easier to "store" and protect at night. This is why I think they're so
widespread in the poorer regions of the world.

~~~
nunb
Goat are great ... funnily enough was just at a small sheep/goat farm
yesterday. The goat's milk is salty (great for keto) and my lactose-intolerant
gut can stand a glass or two. Plus the cheese is way tastier, milk has more
fat etc.

[http://www.self-reliance.com/2015/12/why-not-add-a-dairy-
goa...](http://www.self-reliance.com/2015/12/why-not-add-a-dairy-goat-to-your-
homestead/)

~~~
sooheon
Why is salty milk better for keto?

~~~
tmerc
I think in keto, the kidneys flush sodium instead of retains it. If you're
interested, The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance by Volek and
Phinney is a good read.

~~~
sooheon
Thanks for the recommendation!

------
whiddershins
Re: many people wondering why this hasn't happened organically, it is easy to
underestimate how much cultural attitudes can affect common practice.

As an anecdote, when I visited rural China a couple of years back I asked my
friends who grew up there why, if most people had one chicken, they didn't
simply grow a few more?

The response was "you don't know what it was like back then. In the Mao
attitude people would say ... 'who are you to have two chickens when everyone
else only has one' " ... which was enough social pressure to keep everyone to
one chicken, no matter how much that contributed to malnourishment.

I'm not proposing the same social attitudes are at play in these regions, but
there may be other non-obvious contexts discouraging people from getting
started with a flock.

For some scenarios I could imagine an initiative like this helping to break
through inertia and change norms.

~~~
tonmoy
This seems very accurate. When I was younger it was a social taboo for middle
class families in rural area to raise animals in out country. Then the
government started blasting propaganda about how farming fish and raising
chickens/goats was a noble "entrepreneur" like thing, and now it does not seem
like that much of a taboo any more.

~~~
mapt
There is a campaign in West Africa right now to grow 'grasscutter', aka
greater cane rat, as an entrepreneurial alternative to bush meat and as a
noble poverty reduction measure.

The biggest argument for micro livestock in extreme poverty areas is the
barrier to entry. You can run a large chicken, rabbit, cuy, or grasscutter
farm for less than it costs to own a single pair of cattle, and nobody in the
area has high amounts of saved wealth.

[http://www.nap.edu/read/1831/chapter/1#xv](http://www.nap.edu/read/1831/chapter/1#xv)
is an attempt to explore the options for getting the world's subsistence
farmers (mostly growing crops that have already been heavily automated) into
livestock production (which still require lots of human care).

------
bko
> If you read this article, watch the video above, and answer one question
> below, I will donate—on your behalf via Heifer—a flock of chickens to a
> family in poverty.

Giving a flock of chickens to desperately poor families sounds like a great
idea that will pay dividends for many years. However, I can't help but be
reminded of the many charitable programs that sound great but end up having
very unusual unintended consequences that often defeat the purpose or make it
worse. Anyone care to speculate as to some unintended consequences this
project may have?

~~~
crpatino
In order of severity:

1\. Family ends up homeless because there is no legal framework to raise small
anymals in urban environments, and the flock is framed as "unruly pets" by
abusive landlord/neighbours. Family ends up worse than how they started
without help.

2\. Family receives the flock, but not any training/resources to tend them
properly. Chickens die of illness, malnourishment, or get killed by urban
predators (i.e. semi-feral cats). Purpose of the program is defeated.

3\. Family just eats the chickens right away, which would be a relief from
their situation, but still defeats the purpose of the program.

[Edit: I posted this prior reading the article, and assumed this would be
about helping the urban American poor, not the Global poor. I simply could not
imagine rural poor people in 3rd world countries _not knowing_ chickens are a
good source of income/food. They may still forego the option if they lack
other resources to raise the chickens.

So, you may say I stand corrected. Thanks for your polite feedback]

~~~
shostack
You forgot risk of salmonella and other diseases from not properly handling
chicken products (meat, eggs, cleaning up after handling them, etc.), and
subsequent lack of medical help because of lack of money and/or lack of
insurance.

That said, you have to break some eggs to make an omelette (ok, I guess the
pun was intended). These are things you can help educate about in the process
and shouldn't stop something like this from being rolled out.

~~~
stouset
As I understand it, salmonella and other food-borne illnesses are quite rare
in non-factory-farmed chickens. The biggest contributor in the US is water
chilling (as opposed to air chilling), which causes one infected carcass to
infect the rest.

------
gearhart
Anybody else surprised by how much a chicken costs in Africa?

$5 is £3.45[1] and I can buy a (dead, plucked, gutted, packaged, delivered to
my door) chicken in the UK for £2.95[2].

I realise the local supply's much lower because my Sainsbury's chicken is
grown in a cage in a factory somewhere, but nonetheless, I didn't expect that.

[1] I presume USD is the currency in the video, since 5 of the local currency
is £0.006

[2]
[http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/chicken/sainsb...](http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/chicken/sainsburys-
british-whole-chicken--small-135kg-%28serves-2---3%29)

edit: looks like I left the page open for longer than I thought - this
discussion happened elsewhere hours ago. Apologies.

~~~
Spooky23
Chickens weren't sold that way until pretty recently in history in rich
countries.

Like cows, chickens provide ongoing sustenance. That $5 chicken may yield $50
in eggs. When the bird gets old, you make some soup.

~~~
maxerickson
$5 seems to be the price for a carcass. In the video, dead chickens are tied
together and draped over a bike for transport to wherever they are being sold.

~~~
kuusisto
I'm pretty sure the chickens tied together on the bike are alive. I imagine
it's just a lot easier to transport a bunch of them with a bike when they're
tied together like that.

[https://youtu.be/MwZxBPYqiLg?t=17s](https://youtu.be/MwZxBPYqiLg?t=17s)

~~~
maxerickson
Yeah, giving it a second look, you are right.

------
jakeogh
I started raising chickens 2 years ago. A few things I have learned: If you
have a yard that they can run free in, they don't need a coop. Chickens will
happily roost in the trees. I live in southern Arizona, so the winters are
mild, but I know of people that do the same thing in much colder climates.
Chickens are tough. An added benefit is they are actually safer, if they are
locked in a coop, and a predator gets in, it's going to kill them all.
Outside, they can hide (good luck finding a scared chicken, they are really
good at bolting to a hideaway) or fight. Chickens make all kinds of commotion
if there's a predator around. They will make their nests in secluded shady
spots and unlike a coop, they do not poop in their nests so the eggs are very
clean. I supplement their foraging with chicken feed, but it's not necessary,
there's enough critters and plants, they often just ignore the feed. What they
really want is your compost, no need to separate out what they eat and don't
eat, they do that. The rest attracts their favourite food of all: bugs. Going
coop-less also removes the chore of cleaning the coop. In AZ their poop dries
up very quickly and if they are free range it's not really noticeable since
it's so spread out.

They need lots of water and shade, so make a continuous drip somewhere in the
shade.

Domestic cats don't mess with full grown chickens, and in my experience they
leave the chicks alone too if they are fully feathered and about pigeon size.
The cats eat pigons on a regular basis, but they let the chicks run around and
seem to enjoy them. In the daytime it's common to see the cats and chickens
laying around in the shade within a foot of each other. Racoons like chicken,
and they are good climbers, but the chickens just make lots of noise and fly
off if one gets too close. By then I have my paintball gun out and the Racoons
learn quickly to get dinner elsewhere. I'm constantly surprised about how
smart they are, if they know they are not allowed in a spot they will wait for
you to go away and then rush over. If you catch them in the act, they freak
out and run off back to their allotted area. I find small firecrackers a good
way to tell them "stay away". They learn quickly.

Most of my chickens are good flyers, they can easily jump up to a perch 5ft
above the ground and then into a tree from there. They could also easily fly
over my fence and exit the yard, but they _never_ do.

I wish I had started years ago, the eggs are fantastic.

~~~
ischnura
I have seen a similar setting in Brazil with small Bantam chickens.

Some breeds are more self-sufficient l than others. What chicken breed do you
raise?

~~~
jakeogh
I have 2 Yellow Brahma (big bids, very nice temperament, cant fly far so they
need a way to get to their perch, one is still too young to lay), 1 New
Hampshire Red (she's the alpha, pretty good at flying too), 2 Leghorn (well
one might be a Blue Maran), one grey/blue one white (smaller, really fast,
great flyers, practically impossible to catch), 1 New Hampshire (still growing
and not laying yet, super sweet temperament) and 1 Belgian Bantam (also not
laying yet). They hang out in groups by age.

The Bantam/Leghorn/Maran hens have a celebration every time they lay an egg
which can be a bit annoying if it's 7am, but usually it's mid morning.

Other random tips, to pick them up, especially fast chicks, place your hand
under their belly and let the legs hang down, don't come at them from behind
or above or too fast. Laying chickens often will assume a mating pose if you
go to pick them up which makes it easier and you can just grab them with 2
hands around the folded wings. They like being pet under their chins, but
generally not on top of the head. Be sure to wash your hands even though they
look perfectly clean.

They are all pretty spoiled, if it was a harsher situation I would stick to
the small fast breeds.

Also, I give them the eggshells back, they love em and need the calcium
anyway. Some folks say that encourages them to eat the eggs but I have never
seen that. It's only when one gets broken by accident.

------
fiatmoney
I don't get it. As mentioned in the article, chickens are incredibly easy to
bootstrap (ie, it's not like they require a huge capital outlay to get
started, and they literally pay dividends in further chickens), and have been
present in the area for centuries. What has been the obstacle that has kept
them from already being common enough to drive the expected benefit of further
investment to ~0? And how is that obstacle going to be overcome?

~~~
bryanlarsen
They're giving away _vaccinated_ chicks. I suspect that the vaccines are the
main problem they're addressing. It's certainly possible that it's easier and
cheaper to give away vaccinated chicks than it is to give away vaccinations.

~~~
bko
The author mentioned the low cost of vaccines (the one that prevents the
deadly Newcastle disease costs less than 20 cents). I suspect the reason that
this is not already being done by the locals is that there are some other
costs or factors that are specific to the local market that outsiders have no
way of assessing.

~~~
lukeschlather
It sounds like in order to get money you need to be raising and selling on the
order of 100-300 chickens per year. So we're talking $20-40 year. To put that
in perspective for a contract software developer making $100k+/year, that's
like spending $20k/year on software licenses.

~~~
allannienhuis
$.20 cost of vaccination per $5.00 chicken is 4 percent cost. You're quoting
20 percent cost comparison. Am I missing something?

~~~
lukeschlather
I was comparing against the farmers' current income estimated at $2/day, not
the income post-chickens. Though presumably their income is substantially less
than $5/chicken.

------
ensignavenger
I know a older couple that have spent the last year or so traveling around
Africa doing 'chicken projects' where they help build chicken coops and teach
poor families how to raise chickens (pretty simple to do, actually, but there
are little strategies one can use to increase profits- hardest part is keeping
predators from eating them!) Cool stuff, glad to see Bill Gates onboard!

~~~
mooreds
Sounds cool! Do they have a webpage/fb page where they are sharing their
journey?

~~~
ensignavenger
The wife posts on her personal facebook page periodically, but nothing
generally public :(

------
Animats
Some idiot in my neighborhood tried raising chickens, and they got loose. Some
days I've had 16 chickens in my front yard. There are at least two roosters,
so the flock is self-sustaining. They hide in the creek gully where they're
hard to catch. This has been going on for two years now.

~~~
wtbob
> Some idiot in my neighborhood tried raising chickens, and they got loose.

Sounds like some philanthropist has kindly provided you with all the chicken
you can eat — if you catch it.

------
lumberjack
It is not specified what they mean by "chicken" (age and breed and sex) but $5
seems like really expensive.

I know that you can buy baby chicks from an incubator for egg laying purposes
for like 3 euro or less in rural western Europe. Breeds meant to be harvested
for their meat cost even less.

~~~
bryanlarsen
I get the impression that's for a fully grown chicken sold for meat. I have no
idea how big those chickens are. In North America live chickens sell for
between 30 and 50 cents a pound. The chickens in the video look like small
roasters, definitely under 10 pounds.

~~~
pitt1980
how am I able to buy a rotisserie chicken from the grocery store for $5?

seems like I've getting pretty much everything that's economically viable from
the chicken, plus a fair amount of labor put into the chicken

~~~
rnga1dco
Rotisserie chickens are often a loss leader for grocery stores[0].

0- [http://debtblag.com/why-rotisserie-chickens-so-
cheap/](http://debtblag.com/why-rotisserie-chickens-so-cheap/)

------
dingleberry
Raising chicken is a recession-proof investment which made robust by 'cloning'
<\- you put initial capital, got divident of its type; type can be money,
chicken, plant, whatever; multiply base by cloning.

I plant kangkong. Initial capital is 1usd, about 300 stems. harvesting
biweekly, i get 2600% roi. That's divident part.

I can clone the kangkong by cutting and replant cut stems. It's multiplying
the capital part.

Similarly with chicken, one can eat dividend (eggs) and multiplying base
(breeding/'cloning')

with cash only, i cannot get good dividend (say, by buying bond); much less
luck with cloning cash legally.

Extrapolating to basic income, observe that poverty is lifted fast if the cash
is invested in high roi activities (like entrepreneurship) that grow and scale
fast.

It's the type of activity that matters more than the cash.

------
clumsysmurf
If you want to raise backyard chicks, double check your local chicken
ordinances! Unfortunately, even when they are allowed, it can be the source of
tension between neighbors:

[http://articles.latimes.com/2012/nov/27/nation/la-na-nn-
back...](http://articles.latimes.com/2012/nov/27/nation/la-na-nn-backyard-
chicken-farmers-arizona-20121127)

~~~
hijinks
We have 6 in our backyard and you hardly notice them. They are generally very
quiet. The only times ours makes noise is if one chases another.

The birds in the tree make a lot more noise.

~~~
jly
I find the same thing. My neighbors and I have chickens on ~5000 sq ft fenced
lots and you barely notice them, especially when compared with the local bird
and insect population. My neighbor has a rooster and even that isn't a large
bother.

------
grishas
Pretty much all research has shown that the best way to improve poverty is to
give people money, and not some sort of good that you've decided is better
(goats, chickens, cows, whatever). Unfortunately, giving away money just
doesn't sell. :(

~~~
wrsh07
I'm not sure that it's as cut and dried as you describe.

If I understand correctly, GiveDirectly is uncertain about the effectiveness
of their programs outside of their current "pilot" countries.

[there are lots of factors: the poor in Kenya & Uganda are very poor - and the
marginal dollar to them is very effective, replacing thatched roofs, etc;
Kenya has good support for transferring money]

Besides, it's a good thing to experiment to see how effective different
methods are. It seems naive to settle on one method and decide all other
methods are "stupid," especially when contributing to one doesn't necessarily
detract from the other [the Gates foundation has enough money to saturate any
one charity].

It's always so surprising to me to see people unhappy about the good work
others are doing.

------
bencollier49
If six times as many people raise chickens, won't the sale price of chickens
go down and negate (part of) the effect of providing all the chickens in the
first place?

Shouldn't the number of people raising chickens have already reached a market
equilibrium?

~~~
mattnewton
Probably not because:

1) Farming chickens requires capital investment that might not be available to
poorer families. Equilibrium can only be reached if the would-be-chicken-
farmers have easy access to credit.

2) Chickens have inherent value; you can consume the eggs yourself as a
substitute for other goods you were going to buy, and the meat as well.

------
BadassFractal
Any threat that by increasing the # of chickens around humans' living quarters
in the third world we might be increasing the chances of developing avian
diseases that jump onto surrounding humans, creating new epidemics?

------
shireboy
I am not poor, but did recently raise chickens for about a year, and did the
math on how they fared as an investment. I would disagree they are "easy and
inexpensive", though in a 3rd world setting with some luck it may vary. Here's
a rough summary from my experience:

-1 x Coop (self-made from scavenged wood, home store bought wood, wire, and hinges) ~$400 -5 x laying chickens ~$100 (Chicks are cheaper, but you pay to feed them for N months before they lay, and they need special care. Even then, some died or got sick and quit laying)

So let's call it a $500 initial investment. Mine laid roughly 12 eggs a week.
Near me, we pay $5 for a dozen farm-fresh eggs. So it would take ~100 weeks to
pay off my investment, not taking into account the ~20/mo for feed,
bedding(hay), wormer, and time spent fooling with them. Time-wise, in addition
to building the coop, etc. I had to let them in/out daily and feed and water
them.

They were fun. I like fresh eggs and I'll probably do it again sometime. But a
good investment they were not.

~~~
mod
I think this is way out of line. (I also keep chickens, though not with the
tractor I'm about to list):

Here's a $300 chicken tractor, complete package:
[https://www.aosom.com/pawhut-96-wooden-backyard-hen-house-
ch...](https://www.aosom.com/pawhut-96-wooden-backyard-hen-house-chicken-
coop.html)

Depending on your situation, you might not need much of a coop. I would expect
you could get away with $100 in supplies, in the US--not using scavenged wood
--if you didn't need an enclosure etc, and just a small coop with nesting
boxes.

Chicks are $2 and less, so it seems absurd to pay $20 for a laying hen. In my
area I think hens are worth about $6-$8.

Your 12 eggs/week (for 5 hens) was a bit low, but of course that can vary
greatly by variety. Many hens can lay for 4-5 years, though, and slow down as
they go. I'd expect near the end you'd get 12/week. FWIW I had 9 chickens and
was getting 3doz+/week. If it was winter, you might have needed a light in the
coop to extend 'daylight' hours. They lay more slowly in the winter.

My feed runs about $12/month in the winter, $3/month right now. I seriously
can't see how you could feed 5 chickens $20/month worth of feed. Around here
50lb bags of layer pellets go for $10-$12. Plus I throw them scraps from the
table, which would be waste anyway. I bought one thing of straw that is going
to last about 2 years for $12 at TSC. I don't count my time--and actually,
these days my six year old does nearly all of the work to take care of the
chickens (releasing, feeding, locking up at night). The straw need not be
purchased, though--plenty of substitutes could be had for free or cheap.
Shredded newspaper would probably work.

For your $500 + $20/month I think you should have been able to handle about
15-20 hens and therefore triple your production, or make your money back in
about 30 weeks. Even at 100 weeks, it's not a bad investment, IMO, given that
it just generates money forever after that.

~~~
shireboy
Re selling chickens, that means a rooster, who when I had one ate a ton (and
laid not one egg ;). Then the hens don't always get "broody", so you buy an
incubator...shots for the chicks... I'm sure in 3rd world they make it work,
but the cost is non-0.

I have no doubt my coop was over engineered and way more expensive than it
should be.(I'm a software developer ;) The biggest cost was wire, and also
includes wire fence for a run, feeder/waterer hay bedding (we changed every
week to keep down disease!?), etc.

I'm sure there were other wastes in my operation that could have made things
more efficient. But learning those things takes time, money, and effort too.
I'm sure if my life depended on it it would be different.

~~~
mod
I'm a developer, too! I probably have a smaller coop than you.

In truth, mine was already on the property, but I've looked at a lot of them.
I dislike the one I have and want to rebuild it. Someday.

I'm also blessed with a small creek for watering them, and they have plenty of
room to range and therefore mostly feed themselves.

I chose breeds that are known to be broody, and I typically have at least one
broody hen at all times. Right now, I have two. I'm not letting them hatch
anything out, though. In truth it seems to be just two particular hens that
get broody off and on, so perhaps I was just lucky. I'm fairly new to this
game, myself.

------
cplease
> _They empower women._ Because chickens are small and typically stay close to
> home, many cultures regard them as a woman’s animal, in contrast to larger
> livestock like goats or cows. Women who sell chickens are likely to reinvest
> the profits in their families.

Uh... this is empowering???

EDIT:

> If you read this article, watch the video above, and answer one question
> below, I will donate—on your behalf via Heifer—a flock of chickens to a
> family in poverty.

OMG, it's finally happened for real. Anyone remember this?

"Hello everybody,

My name is Bill Gates. I have just written up an e-mail tracing program that
traces everyone to whom this message is forwarded to. I am experimenting with
this and I need your help. Forward this to everyone you know and if it reaches
1000 people everyone on the list will receive $1000 at my expense. Enjoy.

Your friend, Bill Gates"

~~~
mackal
In cultures where it is "considered woman's animal" the chickens provided by
Heifer will most likely be raised by them. These woman will help bring in
money for their families. That is what is empowering.

~~~
cplease
I get what the words say. What I am remarking on is that engaging in domestic,
socially-acceptable and conventionally female work around the household for
the economic benefit of ones family (as opposed to oneself) is a highly
strained interpretation of "empowering."

Yes, if the alternative is wallowing in penury and being completely
economically dependent, it is certainly better. But empowering?

~~~
creshal
Why is it _not_ empowering to give women more economic independence, in way
that's sustainable in their societies?

Suffragettes in Europe had to fight for more economic rights for fifty years
_after_ getting the right to vote, and it was messy, protracted battle. (Until
the 1970s, German husbands could dictate whether their wife were allowed to
work or not, and kept control over their earnings for even longer.)

~~~
cplease
It's "empowering" in that sense for anyone to get more money. It's "empowering
women" to give them opportunities, including economic opportunities, which
they don't already have or to which there are barriers.

What I'm saying is that chickens are not "empowering women" in societies where
it is and always has been acceptable, status quo, and already conventional for
women to raise chickens; a "woman's animal," small and "close to home," for
domestic purposes. They already have that opportunity!

Empowering would be raising goats and challenging the notion of a "woman's
animal." Or maybe, you know, getting some education and having a life beyond
subsistence farming.

------
trial1234
I used to spend majority of my Summer each year (when I was a pre-teen) in a
very poor South Indian village where my extended family lived. Our family
owned a large flock of chicken. I enjoyed feeding the chicken, feed like rice,
maize, wheat, etc., though for the most part, the chicken did not expect to be
fed anything. They would just graze on whatever they found. Now that I look
back, interestingly, every family (even the poorest) in that village owned a
flock of chicken. It was as though the flock of chicken was one common thread
that ran through every household in the village. At the time though I didn't
have the sagacity to realize the economic incentives of owning a flock of
chicken.

------
LionessLover
> A farmer who sells 250 chickens a year can bring in $1,250, versus the
> extreme-poverty line of about $700 a year.

(That's the comment when you answer the quiz correctly.)

What a simplification. I'm all for the chickens, but the quiz and this quiz-
answer-comment make it seem a little _too_ easy.

If you want to sell 250 chickens a year you a) need quite a few more than
that, b) you need SPACE - and it should provide plenty of free food for
hundreds of chickens (so, LOTS of space), and c) the more chickens the higher
the risk of disease, and several hundred chickens is <i>a lot</i> of chickens
for a poor guy, d) if you don't have LOTS of space you will need to get food
from somewhere (and pay for it?).

~~~
ensignavenger
250 chickens a year wouldn't be that hard. 8-12 weeks from birth to butchering
weight would mean you need a substantially smaller flock than 250 birds. If
they scrounging for most of their diet, it may take a bit longer to get to
butcher weight. Also, if they are scrounging you need more space- and your
success will depend on keeping predators out. But you won't need 'several
hundred' chickens at any one time to reach that goal.

------
nunb
Joel Salatin of Polyface farms might be an interesting read. He also has a lot
of videos on youtube. Here is one [1] but I recall seeing an interesting video
where he runs larger ruminants (cows) and then chickens (coop on wheels) and
then plants the area (the chickens aerate the soil). He also wrote an article
"Everything I want to do is illegal" and has several books on the mess of
agricultural bureaucracy.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdQ5y5_0dRc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdQ5y5_0dRc)

------
walrus01
"Watch the video to get +100 Pts"

What is this, some sort of gamification to get people to read and watch more
content on the gates website?

~~~
prawn
Might be a strategy to get the public to become more active on social issues.
I know I'd use gamification as one method if it were up to me.

------
raintrees
Meta: Almost 10,000 lines of code for that web page (I have NoScript on by
default, I check source to see what I am missing when I get blank pages).

But back to the main point: When my wife and I moved up to this very rural
area of coastal Northern California, we took over dad's chickens. He had been
keeping them penned, but we let them out, and the eggs became drastically
better tasting. More protein, I assume.

It has also taught me that chicken-based epithets carry some weight, they are
not the brightest of creatures.

We are considering adding a few more this year, we have avoided roosters, so
we do not have the risk of fertilized eggs. The trade off is we pay for the
odd hen or two, once every couple of years or so.

We now enjoy more traditional recipes that use uncooked eggs or lightly cooked
- I hadn't realized what I had been missing.

I have definitely learned quite a bit, but so much more to go.

------
ddon
According to this table, raising ducks is more interesting than growing
chickens:

[https://www.tyrantfarms.com/wp-
content/uploads/2013/09/duck-...](https://www.tyrantfarms.com/wp-
content/uploads/2013/09/duck-vs-chicken.png)

~~~
jakeogh
My neighbour keeps suggesting I add some ducks, seems like a good excuse to
make one of these natural pools. Also, in town where I am, you cant have a
rooster (thank god), but male ducks are aok.

------
cmurf
Impractical to raise chickens in cities where it's illegal to butcher them.
The egg laying tapers off at 3 years, but they'll live to ~10 years. That's a
pet, or a freeloading chicken you have to feed but don't get eggs from. So...?
Yeah, not terribly practical unfortunately.

~~~
pc86
The inability to butcher the animal is definitely a problem. I'm not well
versed in this area, is it typical to butcher a chicken after the egg laying
tapers off, or does it typically happen before/much after?

If you're doing this for convenience, it may be worth making a trip out of the
city to have someone butcher them when the time is right. If you're doing this
to save money, it's likely you don't have an easy means of transportation for
something like that.

~~~
cmurf
If it's a male, typically butchered young, 40-50ish days. You only need so
many roosters, and they're loud once they get old enough to crow. In most U.S.
cities, crowing roosters are illegal, but mainly that's because it pisses off
the neighbors.

Butchering elsewhere might work. Seems like a pain. And seems like there could
be a limit on how many you can butcher rather than making it illegal. E.g.
Denver, I think you can only have eight chickens at a time anyway.

Age wise, eating chickens are always young, less than 50 days. Some people
might butcher the egg laying chicken at first molt when it'll stop laying eggs
for 1-3 months. Others do it at 2-3 years when it tapers off. These are
tougher meat chickens but they stew fine.

------
SixSigma
I would raise iguanas

[https://learnenglish.britishcouncil.org/ar/magazine-
articles...](https://learnenglish.britishcouncil.org/ar/magazine-
articles/iguana-farming)

------
ktRolster
This isn't the first program of this type, so he's not going into it blind.
See this for one example: [http://www.cityfarmer.info/2013/11/15/gaza-urban-
rabbit-rais...](http://www.cityfarmer.info/2013/11/15/gaza-urban-rabbit-
raising-intervention/)

I also remember reading about a rabbit raising program in the Philippines
several years back, but I can't find a reference to it.

------
swehner
If they're so great, why do they need to be promoted?

~~~
tacos
Same reason condoms and vaccines do. It's hard to change behaviors.

------
gfo
This sounds like a fantastic idea.

However, if he really gives a flock of chickens to a bunch of families in
need, won't that reduce their monetary value over time?

If every family has chickens, the monetary incentive isn't there for others to
purchase them, or the higher supply will squash demand and drive the price
down.

There's still the health benefit and it's obviously a great initiative.

------
jds375
I find it a bit odd that he doesn't mention actually eating the chicken itself
at any point. He mentions selling the chickens for more nutritious food than
just eggs... But isn't chicken meat alone pretty nutritious?

------
josu
A touch of humor, a clip from Harmony Korine's brilliant Mister Lonely:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2B4q1yWk2U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2B4q1yWk2U)

------
psadri
I wish a local person could give us their perspective on this initiative.

------
tbrock
What is the ratio of female hens to male roosters? Quick googling tells me 10
to 1 but I'm not sure if that is correct.

Is there any other species that has a similar extremely lopsided number of one
sex?

~~~
olooney
The natural sex ratio of chickens is 50/50\. Chicks are sexed when a few days
old and excess males are disposed of.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick_sexing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick_sexing)

There is strong evolutionary pressure that keep sex ratios at close to 50/50
in the vast majority of species. Some species (e.g. clown fish) have
environments and traits which push this equilibrium away from 50/50\. Fisher's
explanation for this phenomenon is widely accepted:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher%27s_principle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher%27s_principle)

~~~
cneumuel
Right, and just in case anyone is in doubt, the ratio for cattle is also
50/50\. There is no sexing that I am aware of, but if someone is a vegetarian
and drinks milk, they are still supporting the schnitzel industry.

------
Dowwie
Please note Bill's address to the community about his charitable donations
contingent upon our participation. I like how he is engaging the community to
spread a good idea.

------
spydum
maybe I'm missing something, what will the chickens eat? "whatever they find
on the ground" is not exactly a strategy for growth, especially if everybody
is raising chickens, you can pretty much expect the availability of edible
stuff to reach zero in villages. not saying this doesnt work, but it's still
an energy in/out problem right, where is the new source of energy?

~~~
CuriouslyC
Chickens can eat bugs, plants and food waste that people wouldn't touch. This
would work fine assuming at least a temperate climate (ideally tropical) and
small villages with a fairly low density.

~~~
Grue3
If chicken can freely walk around, there immediately occurs the problem of
people stealing others' chicken. I grew up in a Soviet village and it happened
a lot, so I'd imagine it would be even worse in poorer countries.

~~~
CuriouslyC
In a larger, more populated village, this is definitely a potential concern.
In the smaller, less dense villages where this program is likely targeted,
everyone knows everyone, and chickens usually have sufficiently distinct
markings that if you have a small flock you could probably identify your
stolen bird without too much trouble.

Just for reference, I've seen roaming chickens in small villages in the
Philippines/Caribbean, it is very common. I even saw it in some decently sized
towns, though it was less common. In cities everyone kept their chickens in
pens, so I never saw them (though they woke me up every damned day, so I know
there were plenty of them).

------
known
The significant problems we have cannot be solved at the same level of
thinking with which we created them.

------
shirro
Lots of people keep backyard chickens even in developed countries. Most of the
local schools have chicken coops.

------
neves
What about the chicken feces? Wouldn't it be terrible for your health to live
in a small house full of feces?

------
tkyjonathan
This makes no financial sense. You would be better to eat the chicken feed
yourself (corn/grains) and get x50 more caloric value for your money.

------
carapace
(Useless blank page without JS enabled. Whine. Complain.)

------
spoofball
The way chickens are raised today, you'd be insane to raise chickens.

Chickens of the old, roamed the grass, picking little shits that no one could
find or eat, growing slowly but steadily, surviving and mating.

Today, they gorge on soybean-B12 juice that was raised on ex-rainforest area.

It's highly unsustainable and ridiculously bad investment.

Bill Gates has previously written about meat and its sustainability and has
shown serious lack of understanding of how it all works on a global scale.

Yes, chickens being raised on a field filled with little nutrients only
chickens can see is exactly the same as cows being raised in an environment
where grass grows around them and climate is pretty stable.

That's not the way Africa or India will get its dosage of meat, and it cannot
be done in any way other than massive soybean way (the best source of protein
and growth for all living animals).

When we get Africans or Indians on the luxurious flesh, we'll never get them
off the bandwagon and the unsustainability of the process will ruin more
rainforests, more oceans, more living species and more life.

Absolutely disappointed with Bill.

I guess he's totally oblivious to the dead oceans zones that are caused
primarily by animal agriculture.

Or that 90% of the rainforest is being cut primarily for soybean, that is
primarily given to the animals in the animal agriculture.

Can't believe a guy was solving a problem this huge and he seems to still be
on the meat bandwagon.

~~~
kenshaw
This is a clear troll. Absolutely nothing said by this poster has anything to
do with the actual article. Additionally, the user account is only 13 days
old. Moderators, please kill this account and postings.

~~~
davidcollantes
I don't see the troll on it. He expressed his points of view, related to the
article. I agree that meat isn't a long lasting solution (I eat meat, by the
way). I think plants agriculture is. Chickens for short term? Yes.

------
roel_v
Reading the comments on that post make me weep for the future of mankind. It's
like Youtube but worse - because at least on Youtube everybody knows they're
being idiots.

------
0xdeadbeefbabe
When he says stuff like this does it affect the commodities market?

Edit: just more unintended consequences if so, and it is things like this that
make me aspire to be a good neighbor instead of a Manager.

------
known
Bill Gates should live in a 3rd world village for 6 months to really
understand the nuances of poverty;
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untouchability](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untouchability)
and
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs)

~~~
ramblerman
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem)

------
fish55
"Relative surplus value is produced through the reduction of the value of
labor power (variable capital) by means of improvements in the production of
goods (effectively the appropriation of productivity gains by the capitalist
class)." -Marxist definition

In other words, they will no longer need a wage that also represents the value
of eggs, so: -the wage will ultimately be reduced -the portion of their
unwaged labor (raising chickens) will increase

People who raise their own chickens _can_ work for less than those who don't.

tldr: A service they could once afford will become unaffordable.

