

Apple selling unlocked iPhones in Canada - r7000
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2010/06/15/apple-unlocked-iphone-canada.html

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ErrantX
They have been doing this in the UK for a while
([http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_iphone/family/iph...](http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_iphone/family/iphone)
£499-599). Is this a particularly revolutionary thing?

 _Apple's move, however, will force the carriers to compete for the business
of customers with unlocked iPhones, possibly even on a monthly basis._

I don't buy that somehow. They are pretty expensive (at least here anyway)
compared to the currently subsidized prices. Currently I see no real benefit
of not getting a contract device for 18 months then getting the free upgrade.

 _Customers will only need to buy a Subscriber Identity Module (SIM) or micro-
SIM, which typically sell for about $10, to switch to a different carrier._

What about data costs? I know you couldn't do that here because internet
access costs would crucify you quickly.

~~~
ugh
Flexibility and cheap calls from abroad.

I don’t know much about the price structure in the US but in Germany there are
cheaper options if you buy just the SIM. That phone must be payed somehow,
that’s why you pay more every month when you have a subsidized phone.

Now, that in itself wouldn’t be so bad, but your choices are seriously limited
with a iPhone. What if I don’t need hundreds of minutes but want a real data
flat rate? That’s not possible with an iPhone.

And you can’t just pop in some cheapo prepaid SIM when traveling, you are
forced to shoulder the roaming costs. That’s maybe not so important in the US
but seriously sucks in Europe.

Since the costs are the same – either higher monthly costs and a subsidized
phone or lower monthly costs and a unsubsidized phone – I would always rather
buy the unsubsidized phone.

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ErrantX
_What if I don’t need hundreds of minutes but want a real data flat rate?
That’s not possible with an iPhone._

Wow, yeh. I just checked into this and it seems in the UK, on O2, we get a
great deal - basically "free internet" data for a 18 months (then you can get
a free upgrade).

 _Since the costs are the same_

Not sure that's true, depending on your needs. The unsubsidized phone + lower
monthly cost + phone bill would be much larger for me than the current
contract I have.

Agreed, though, it would be nice to be able to pop in a foreign SIM when
abroad (I actually have a SIM free bog standard phone for this exact reason)

~~~
ZeroGravitas
If you've had your iPhone more than 12 months then 02 will unlock it for you
if you fill in the form on their website, then you'll be able to use local
sims while abroad and shift to month-to-month sim-only deals on any network
once your fixed term contract runs out.

You keep mentioning "free" upgrades. Do you just mean that you don't need to
pay for the phone up front and instead (re)-sign an 18 or 24 month contract
with minimum monthly payments? It's not really free, it's just like paying off
your phone in installments. I saved money by paying more than the minimum
necessary for my iPhone and paying a lower price each month than the minimum
I'd pay to get the phone for "free". Even if it worked out cheaper in theory,
you're locked into that price for 18 months. Now I'm out my contract my
monthly cost is halved but the number of free minutes I got for that money
quadrupled. I could get an even better deal if I switched carriers, but I
can't be bothered.

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silversmith
Interesting. Here in eastern europe, unlocked has always been the 'usual' way.
Even now, telecos generally go for partnerships with established retailers
rather than opening their own chains. Buying a subsidized phone is more of a
"I'm already using operator X, might as well get the device cheaper" kind of
deal.

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DannoHung
Has anyone ever tried to model the benefits of going with an unlocked,
contract free phone over one tied to a specific carrier with a fixed contract?

I know that a lot of people, here in particularl, find the notion of locked
down hardware repugnant, but from a cost/benefit perspective, I have just not
seen that much of a problem, personally. I mean, are there usage scenarios
with an assumption that you will have continuous approximate service (for the
purposes of the iPhone, that would be a voice and data plan) that are common
where carrier lock-in is very costly?

~~~
jokermatt999
This is just wild massing guessing on my part, but without vendor/hardware
lock-in, wouldn't competition (and therefore service) be much better? As of
now, there's several prohibitive costs to switching services due to having
contract cancellation fees, requiring a new phone, not necessarily being able
to transfer your data, etc. With an unlocked phone, you'd still have those
contract cancellation fees, but it would be a much smoother process to switch.
If it was easy enough to change to another carrier, carriers would most likely
focus more on being more attractive than their competitors to try to entice
customers to them. As it stands, it seems to me like few people would actually
bother switching unless they were grossly unhappy with their service.

However, I'll freely admit that I don't necessarily have data or experience to
back this up. Am I on the right track here, or babbling aimlessly?

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cwp
It seems that the elements are in place for some real competition in Canada:

    
    
       - all the major carriers support the iPhone
       - Apple is selling unlocked phones
       - you can get a voice/data plan without a contract if you have an unlocked phone
       - phone number portability works well
    

I think it's possible to get unlocked Blackberry and Android phones too, but
not sure. It's too early to tell if this will lead to lower prices and better
service, but I'm optimistic.

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ehnus
Good stuff. I had my iPhone stolen a few months ago and I had to buy a
replacement through my service provider (Rogers) as Apple wasn't selling them
unlocked at the time. I think, if anything, this will help dispel the feeling
I had at the time that I was getting screwed by my provider for the
replacement phone cost even if it's actually not the case.

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simonk
I don't really see a big plus for this, we have 4 big GSM providers Rogers,
Telus, Bell, and Wind Mobile.

Wind Mobile works off a different spectrum so that doesn't help. Rogers,
Telus, and Bell all have almost the exact same plans for the iPhone and if you
don't buy the iPhone from them the monthly cost is usually higher not cheaper.

~~~
turnersauce
The state of wireless in Canada is depressing, although slowly improving. The
instant that Wind goes live in Victoria, I'm switching!

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jat850
$549 for the 3GS. I absolutely shudder to think of what the iPhone 4 will sell
for. I'm going to guess about $749.

~~~
ben1040
AT&T's "commitment free" price for the 16GB 3GS is $549, with a $599 price for
the 16GB iPhone 4.

Although I'm guessing there's still some carrier subsidy hidden in that price
since commitment free != unlocked, and even if that phone is sold on eBay it's
guaranteed to only generate revenue for AT&T and nobody else.

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sfard
Although this is great for consumer choice, I shudder when I think of all the
corporate heads at telecom companies thinking of how to screw customers on
this. The phone becomes a sunk cost and companies can then screw us on a
higher go-forward price for their service. This is especially true in Canada
where the industry is practically a duopoly.

~~~
paulgb
Things are actually starting to get better. There was some spectrum auctioned
last year and recently a number of start-up carriers are starting to pop up.
The government also lifted some foreign ownership limits on the carriers. Give
it a few years for people's contracts to end and we should have a healthy
telecom market.

