
Can Naples reinvent itself as a tech capital? - atomical
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45486674
======
nakedrobot2
I have done some work with a good friend and his company which is located near
Naples.

No, this won't happen.

That place is pure chaos. It is closer to a so-called developing nation
(ethiopia, guatemala) than a "European Country". It is filthy, garbage
everywhere, chaos drivers, mafia infiltrating everything; Nothing really works
as well as it should; absolute corruption at every level of society.

Sure, Naples has a beautiful city center, and there are some impressive
technical universities around. But this is not enough.

~~~
patrickaljord
> It is filthy, garbage everywhere, chaos drivers, mafia infiltrating
> everything; Nothing really works as well as it should; absolute corruption
> at every level of society. Sure, Naples has a beautiful city center, and
> there are some impressive technical universities around.

Sounds a lot like San Francisco to me /s

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devilmoon
No, it can't. Mafia won't allow it and every decent human being born out of
that city moves out of it sooner rather than later

~~~
thune
This is my impression as well.

Only city in the EU that I've felt unsafe in, granted I was only passing
through so that feeling was probably just a manifestation of the city's
reputation.

~~~
pjmlp
Really? There are worse EU cities regarding security.

~~~
DocTomoe
Berlin and Leipzig, for starters, both of which are major startup capitals.

~~~
TomMarius
Huh? I have never ever felt unsafe in those. What areas are unsafe in Berlin?

~~~
pjmlp
If you can read German,

[https://www.berliner-
zeitung.de/berlin/polizei/die-23-unsich...](https://www.berliner-
zeitung.de/berlin/polizei/die-23-unsichersten-orte-der-stadt-wo-berlin-
gefaehrlich-ist-23459052)

[https://www.morgenpost.de/berlin/article210846209/An-
diesen-...](https://www.morgenpost.de/berlin/article210846209/An-diesen-Orten-
muessen-Berliner-und-Touristen-aufpassen.html)

~~~
TomMarius
Thank you, I can manage. Are these considered serious newspapers?

~~~
pjmlp
Yes, they are not like Bild and friends.

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fauigerzigerk
I wonder how important Naples's local issues really are for a tech startup.
Naples has a pretty bad reputation, but it's mainly about public services like
waste collection, sanitation, water and infrastructure.

If I were starting a construction company or a restaurant there I might be
concerned about mafia involvement, but as a tech company I worry more abut
Italy's general bureaucracy and its broken legal system.

The somewhat baffling political situation doesn't exactly inspire confidence
either (although I suppose I shouldn't be throwing stones from my UK glass
house in that respect)

~~~
DavidHm
One of the reasons that Berlin is so popular is that everything works smoothly
(everything is relative, of course), and it has a great, multicultural social
life.

Neither of these apply to Naples.

~~~
inciampati
The first applies for sure, but if you think Naples isn't multicultural and
social then you haven't spent much time here or aren't paying attention to the
faces and habits of people in the city. There are people from everywhere here,
and lots of them.

This city is hypersocial to the point that it exhausts visitors from places
like Berlin and the states. Thousands of people gather together spontaneously
any night of the week in the public spaces in the city center. You cannot walk
two minutes without the chance of talking to someone.

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eafkuor
Salaries in Italy are simply not high enough to attract or retain talent, in
my opinion

~~~
register
You are underestimating italian talent. Italy is fully of hungry minds and
determined people and that applies even more in Naples where opportunities are
scarce.

~~~
Kalium
Is it possible that instead of underestimating Italian talent, parent is
carefully considering the immense power, value, skill, hunger, and
determination of Italian talent? Especially when those incredible people have
ready access to a sizable number of other places that pay better!

I've personally met more than one _absolutely brilliant_ Italian engineer...
who lives in London.

~~~
donretag
Italy has a massive brain drain problem. Many university educated
professionals live overseas.

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southerndrift
* >The University of Naples, the first university in Europe dedicated to training secular administrators,

* >Naples became part of the Kingdom of Italy in 1861 as part of the Italian unification, ending the era of Bourbon rule. The kingdom of the Two Sicilies had been wealthy, and as many as 443.2 million ducats were taken from the old kingdom's banks as a contribution to the new Italian treasury.

* >by 1884, Naples was still the largest city in Italy with 496,499 inhabitants, or roughly 64,000 per square kilometre (more than twice the population density of Paris)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naples](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naples)

I had no idea that Naples had been that advanced. Building on that history,
they should have a huge potential. Unfortunately, I don't see how they can
recreate their strategic advantage the way they do.

The Mediterranean Sea was the Internet before the industrial revolution.
Naples is an expression of that network effect. Which network can they offer
today? Won't they suffer the same problem as India, that they educate
programmers who will take the first opportunity to move to Silicon Valley?

~~~
raverbashing
Comparing Italy to India is a disproportionate

~~~
gpderetta
it is true that a lot good Italian programmers go abroad looking for better
wages. Source: I'm one of them (Italian, not good, that is).

~~~
raverbashing
Silicon Valley has a global pull and a lot of programmers will end up there
regardless of nationality.

Italian programmers can go easily to other places, and the internal market is
not too bad as well, so I guess most don't bother looking to go to SV

~~~
gpderetta
Sure, I wasn't thinking about SV. Europe is big and has a lot of opportunities
with better salaries. London, where I live, is just around the corner for an
Italian (at least for now).

------
matco11
Such a pointless story. Saying that startups can only succeed in SV, London or
Berlin is myopic. There are plenty of startup successes (around the US and
around Europe) proving this wrong.

Every location has its advantages and its disadvantages - you play the best
cards you get, and the only sure way not to win is to not play at all.

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inciampati
Yes, but not by companies investing. This is a great place to live, and if you
have remote work you will live really well with minimal costs. It is just too
corrupt and anarchic to be a good target for investment. The idea of a company
headquarters here is simply impossible. It would have to be placed out in the
middle of nowhere.

Naples can be a tech hub, but in the leftist anarchist community sense rather
than the big business sense. People will have to choose to do so. From what
little I've seen this does seem to be happening already.

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epynonymous
the main things, i think, necessary to make somewhere a great location for a
startup are public infrastructure and talent, i dont know anything about
naples, but i wonder first and foremost how good the local talent is, and
second how well it can attract talent. is the airport accessible to direct
flights to say sfo, etc. are there incentives to place datacenters, although
not a hard requirement because of aws, gcp ovmh, but it helps, i imagine it’s
a volcanic zone, so probably not. look at all the great startup cities in the
world and you’ll find strong universities that have great talent, the
univiersities help to lure the talent, the companies help to keep them.

obviously this has lots of ties with government where they could make things
easier.

from the first picture, it looks like a great place to live on the
mediterannean, but the crime and filth sounds bad.

~~~
epynonymous
i would add to this, the culture must embrace entrepreneurialism, like tokyo
is a great place in terms of infrastructure, but the society is more bent on
having salarymen that have stable careers, so the startup scene is more
stagnant than other places where the schools/talent arent as good and access
to sfo, other places are great.

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donretag
Italy has a problem attracting talent, capital, and companies even in the
"better" and more developed areas. How can Naples fare? The article mentions
student academies, which is the only way it can manage since salaries would be
way too low for experienced workers.

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francasso
I'm Italian and no, it can't (would love for the people of Naples to prove me
wrong though)

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IloveHN84
Yes they can, if politics change its behaviour.

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bschwindHN
Does it need to?

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zinckiwi
Instant advantage towards the two pizza rule.

------
tomcooks
Coincidentally there is a stable US Navy base in Naples.

Don't turn Naples in another gentrified hellhole like you did with Lisbon.

~~~
thecodingmonk
What happened in Lisbon?

~~~
privateprofile
Gentrification, mass tourism and special privilege for some people that can
afford to buy entire buildings are causing major social issues: \-
[https://www.euronews.com/2017/09/19/lisbon-s-tourism-
magnet-...](https://www.euronews.com/2017/09/19/lisbon-s-tourism-magnet-is-
kicking-out-local-residents) \-
[http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/president-promulgates-
te...](http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/president-promulgates-temporary-
suspension-on-evictions-as-rents-skyrocket-and-housing-stock-falls/46197)

People using words like "prosperity" either don't live here, or especially
don't work for a living here...

~~~
pjc50
This sounds like AirBnB effects again :(

~~~
privateprofile
That, and the fact that the government has decided to keep giving away EU
visas to people from geographies that are notorious for corruption (e.g.
Brasil, Angola, China) in exchange for meager (500K€) real estate
"investments" [1]

[1] [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/18/portugal-
golde...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/18/portugal-golden-visas-
corrupt-brazilian-tycoon-among-applicants)

------
liftbigweights
More questions for headlines. Just clickbait pretending to be a news article.
You would think that the BBC would be immune to this form of "journalism"
since they are an established news company backed by taxpayer money.

But since the BBC asked, I'll apply Betteridge's Law and simply answer no. Did
I pass?

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mpax
Please keep such madness out of the EU...

