

Court says Skype's name is too similar to Sky's - tpatke
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-32593735

======
Someone1234
There are 82 English dictionary words that contain the word "Sky." 63 of those
words start with the word "Sky." Therefore by logical extension of this
ruling, they have at minimum given Sky free trademarks on 82 additional words.
That doesn't even include made up words like "Skype."

These types of decisions are going to massively limit the number of
trademarkable words available for businesses to register in general. It wasn't
even like Sky and Skype are directly competing with one another
(VoIP/Chat/Video over Ip Vs. Satellite TV). Or that Skype was trying to feed
off of Sky's reputation or brand.

This ruling is simply terrible. It is terrible within itself and sets an even
worse precedent. The EU needs to pass additional laws clarifying this so that
courts cannot reach these kind of conclusions.

~~~
pzxc
Your understanding of trademark law is not correct. The crucial question is
whether consumers will be confused by two different entities using the same or
a similar trademark.

One of the first things you learn about trademarks is that two companies can
have the same trademark if they are in different industries and the consumer
is unlikely to confuse the two companies. For example, there is both an
airline and a faucet manufacturer called "Delta". There is both an electronics
company and an agricultural seed company called "Pioneer". However, Lindows
had to change their name to Linspire because it was clearly in the same
industry as Microsoft and the consumer could easily confuse it with the
trademarked Windows software. Similarly, the social networking site Teachbook
eventually relented after being sued by Facebook and changed their name to
TeachQuest.

It definitely is _not_ the case that this ruling grants the company Sky free
trademarks on every word in the dictionary that contains those three letters.

~~~
baldfat
For Example:

Apple Computers - Apple Records (Beatles)

Macintosh Computers - Macintosh Stereo Equipment (Stereo Equipment is much
more expensive than the technology company)

~~~
ChristianGeek
Actually, Apple/Apple is a really good example because Apple Records sued
Apple Computers when the latter got into music.

~~~
baldfat
Apple Computers had an agreement with Apple Records that it would not go into
the Music Business and Apple Computers broke their promise and did not try to
find a solution that would work for both parties.

Kind of like hoe there already was a Motorola iPhone in 2005 and iPhone was
debut on 2007.

------
dikaiosune
I'm still befuddled that you can trademark a name like Sky or Apple. I'm more
befuddled that the EU courts would block registration of a trademark that is
already widely known as a brand name and that the plaintiff in this case _isn
't even challenging_ as an infringement on their trademark.

~~~
rhino369
It's because trademark is considerably more limited that most people believe.

You trademark is limited to specific markets you operate in, both type of
market and geographic markets.

Apple Computers is okay because apple isn't descriptive about computer. You
couldn't trademark apple in regards to the fruit.

Typically, there can be a Sky TV station and a Sky car rental. However,
sometimes a company can become so popular that reusing their name will
actually confuse customers, and it is no longer allowed.

For example, you would probably have a hard time using Apple now, even in an
unrelated field.

~~~
ghshephard
1224 Live hits for the exact word "Apple" at
[http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/](http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/)

~~~
rhino369
That sort of actual confusion analysis in the US is done at the court level.
Just because you can get it past USPTO doesn't mean Apple won't be able to get
you to stop.

------
cnvogel
That's satire, right? Right? ❝the likelihood of the element 'Sky' being
recognised within the word element 'Skype', for clouds are to be found 'in the
sky' and thus may readily be associated with the word 'sky'.❞

Not really related, but it reminds me of another funny occurrence concerning
trademarks: O2 (the phone company) sued Weinmann GmbH (a medical device
company). Weinmann used the string O2 in a product that delivers oxygen to
patients... ([http://sci.tech-
archive.net/Archive/sci.physics/2005-03/8371...](http://sci.tech-
archive.net/Archive/sci.physics/2005-03/8371.html))

Sometimes I question inhofar "common sense" prevails in these trademark-ruling
courts.

------
SG-
Reminds me of this back in the 2003 where Microsoft went after a high school
kid for having the domain mikerowesoft.com (his name being Mike Rowe):

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_vs._MikeRoweSoft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_vs._MikeRoweSoft)

It ended alright for Mike Rowe in the end, but Microsoft only offered $10
originally and accused him of cybersquatting which was false. It was only
after a bunch of press that he got some decent return.

------
bad_user
Skype was released in 2003 and personally I don't associate it with "sky". If
Skype can't be trademark, then the trademark law is broken.

~~~
danbruc
For context - Sky was founded in 1991 but then named Premiere and only
rebranded to Sky in 2009.

~~~
notahacker
Not sure where you're getting that from. BSkyB (British Sky Broadcasting) was
formed in 1991 as part of a merger involving a pre existing Sky Television,
and BSkyB and its successor Sky plc has used Sky (as a standalone word) in the
name and logo of most of its TV channels (Sky Sports, Sky Movies, Sky News
etc.) and other service offerings (Sky Talk, Sky Broadband, Sky Bet)
continuously since then.

~~~
danbruc
Maybe I should not just have skimmed the article. The rest was same logo, same
company and limited knowledge of the history.

------
orf
Seems like Sky has a thing for Microsoft - first they were forced to rename
SkyDrive to OneDrive and now this.

~~~
k-mcgrady
Or does Microsoft have a thing for Sky? I don't see in this case how their
could be any confusion considering how long Skype has been around and how well
known it is but in the SkyDrive case I can see how that makes sense
considering Sky is an ISP and it is possible they could have a product named
SkyDrive.

~~~
cowsandmilk
Or neither, since the initial challenge of Skype occurred before Microsoft
even bought the company.

Sky just seems to love challenging everything similar.

------
mauricemir
Where is the Late Peter Cook when you need him

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyos-M48B8U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyos-M48B8U)

For background there was a court case back in the 70's (the leader of a
political party was accused of arranging a contract killing on his gay lover)
a high profile court case with an outrageously biased judge.

------
tamagokun
This is what happens when you name your company something like "Sky" or
"Paper"

~~~
higherpurpose
Apparently you win. It's the later derivatives that lose.

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pejoculant
Wow, they literally "own the sky".

~~~
nathanaldensr
Not literally; otherwise, they could charge you to breathe in the EU. They own
the trademark and its association with the sky.

~~~
pejoculant
Ok,ok but "own the term sky" doesn't sound as nice.

------
andor
Since Skype is by far the more popular (and important) service, I suppose
"Sky" should change their name ;-)

[http://www.skymedia.co.uk/Audience-
Insight/dashboard.aspx](http://www.skymedia.co.uk/Audience-
Insight/dashboard.aspx)

~~~
notahacker
Depends how you define important; Sky's $18bn market cap is testament to their
customers spending an awful lot more money on satellite television and
telephone landlines than on VOIP calls.

Neither party will change their name in the near future, and the lawyers from
both companies that have made a lot of money fighting each other will be
equally keen to make more money stomping on anyone with the temerity to start
an EU-based VOIP service with a name like SkyPeer or SkyBe

------
JimmaDaRustla
First SkyDrive, now Skype? What is this company's deal with attacking
Microsoft and others over a very very generic word?

For what it's worth, Sky is only 60% of Skype, and Skype has 2 more letters.

~~~
frik
Also MS "Metro" UI nowadays named "Modern UI":
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_UI#Name_change](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_UI#Name_change)

Metro Group, Germany's largest retailer, had something against it
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_AG](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_AG)).
Yet, it's an abbreviation of "metropolitan" and is used for many other things:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro)

~~~
wvenable
Microsoft should have never backed down on this one.

~~~
UntitledNo4
Metro AG owns Media Markt and Saturn[1], both sell electronics, including
computers. Judging by their stores, most of these computers are PCs (although
they do sell Apple computers as well).

Media Markt, is Europe's largest retailer of consumer electronics[2].

Saturn is one of the big retailers of consumer electronics in Germany, and
have stores in some other European countries[3].

So perhaps Microsoft could have won that one, but at what cost? Pissing off
one of their biggest retailers? I don't know for sure, but it seems very
likely that Microsoft wouldn't want to do that and made the decision to back
off instead.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_AG](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_AG)

[2]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Markt](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Markt)

[3]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_(store)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_\(store\))

~~~
wvenable
The thing is Microsoft's Metro isn't even a product, it's just a name for a
technology. Why should this company even care. The whole is ridiculous and
that's why Microsoft should not have backed down on it.

------
userbinator
Are they also going to go after the two dozen or so airlines that have 'Sky'
in their name...?

------
praeivis
skype well known world wide. sky known only in UK. I am from europe, and only
remember sky exist when MS decide change skydrive to onedrive, or when skype
not allowed get trademark.

------
sosborn
It is like saying "Hat" is too similar to "Hate".

------
gr8b8m8-88
TIL in Europe you are literally not allowed to pe under the sky.

------
skj
More nonsense protectionism from EU power brokers.

~~~
krzyk
Not EU, but UK protectionism, they do a lot different than guys on the
mainland. Skype was created in EU (ok almost, created in Estonia few months
before it joined EU).

~~~
ubernostrum
_Not EU, but UK protectionism_

From TFA: "General Court of the European Union", and got there because the
ruling was the same at the European Union's Office for Harmonisation of
Internal Markets.

