
California: The ungovernable state - rms
http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displayStory.cfm?STORY_ID=13649050
======
cperciva
As a non-American, it seems strange to me that such a successful centre of
innovation -- the bay area -- can survive within what is, from all reports, an
utterly dysfunctional state. Can someone here with more understanding of US
politics explain how this is possible?

~~~
mustpax
As a wiser man once said, "the reports of my death are greatly exaggerated."

California has big problems, but remember that it is also the 10th largest
economy in the world (at least it was in 2007 according to the CIA factbook).
These problems, given the scale of California's operations are never fatal,
and usually quite temporary hiccups.

The state also tends to march to the beat of its own drum, which is not
entirely unique _cough_ Texas _cough_ , but this intensifies the criticisms of
California's idiosyncrasies, and it's left leaning government expenditure
programs.

The Bay Area, for all its business hustle and bustle, owes its origins to
this, dare I say, quite Commie mentality. It's the blend of this socialist and
capitalist ideology that creates an original mix of creativity and business
sense.

~~~
alex_c
_it's left leaning government expenditure programs. [...] Commie mentality.
It's the blend of this socialist and capitalist ideology_

I keep reading similar sentiments, but I don't really understand it. I believe
the tax rate is basically on par with Canada's (so, pretty high). However, to
give two counterexamples, California obviously doesn't have universal health
care, and I've never seen as many homeless people as in the Bay area (the
weather might have something to do with it). So what does all that money get
spent on, compared to other states which might be more right-leaning or have
lower tax rates?

~~~
krakensden
The prisons. Three strikes means we have an awful lot of prisoners.

There's also a lot of dysfunctional allocation- in the school system, for
instance, a majority of funds are earmarked for specific purposes, like
special ed, regardless of local conditions. Which leads to bizarre things like
bankrupt districts embarking on multi-million building projects.

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gasull
The article says that direct democracy in California is dysfunctional just
because people don't approve new taxes and more spending. Therefore direct
democracy is good only when the people just agree with politicians.

Actually direct democracy seems to be working. Cutting spending is the right
thing to do instead of increasing taxes:

How rich countries die [http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2009/03/16/how-
rich-count...](http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2009/03/16/how-rich-
countries-die/)

FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
[http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-
Prolonge...](http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-
Depression-5409.aspx?RelNum=5409)

On the other hand, I find chocking how a lot of libertarians say democracy and
freedom aren't compatible (I'm thinking of an interview with one of the
founders of Paypal that was recently in HN). You get actually the opposite:
the more democracy, specifically the more direct democracy, the less
oppressive a government can be.

~~~
endtime
Without taking a position, I will point out that in a pure direct democracy,
it is possible for 49% of people to be enslaved.

~~~
gasull
And that percentage goes up to 99.9% for non-direct democracy and other forms
of government.

~~~
endtime
Well, I don't think a representative democracy like the US has could really
result in enslavement of 99.9% of people.

In any case, I am no fascist (or anarchist). I don't know who first said this,
but the only thing worse than democracy is every other alternative.

~~~
gasull
And I don't think a direct democracy like California or Switzerland could
result in enslavement of 49% of the people like you suggested in your comment.

 _the only thing worse than democracy is every other alternative_

I agree, although I'm not sure if with _democracy_ you're counting both
representative and direct democracy as I am.

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natmaster
Interesting that they cite California's long constitution as a problem, since
Texas is in the exact opposite position as California (budget balanced), and
yet has a longer constitution (second only to Alabama).

~~~
jacobolus
The main problem in CA is that the voters can make policy through ballot
initiative, and get it into the constitution, where the normal legislative
process can’t touch it. That leaves all kinds of inflexibility that ties the
legislature down and prevents the give-and-take and adaptation-to-changing-
circumstance of good policymaking.

~~~
codeodor
"he voters can make policy through ballot initiative, and get it into the
constitution"

This is the same case in Texas.

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natmaster
"Because in the primaries they have run on extremist platforms against other
Republicans, they have no incentive to be pragmatic or moderate, and tend
simply to balk."

Yes, let's knee-jerk blame Republicans. Obviously cutting spending is out of
the question, even though other states somehow manage.

~~~
krakensden
Except they're /right/. The state Democrats are corrupt and ineffectual, but
at least they're not insane like our Republicans, who refuse to even consider
ideologically impure things like ``compromise to pass a budget''.

~~~
anamax
The Repubs have compromised. They only slowed, somewhat, the growth in
spending. Do you really think that CA would be better off if spending had
grown faster?

If not, then you get to explain how letting the Dems get more of their way
would have helped. Be specific. (Surely you're not going to argue that Repubs
forced significant new spending or that Repubs forced Dems to spend more money
than the revenues.)

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madair
I was just there. The people I talked to about this feel that (a) politicians
have talked up the crisis to such a shrill level for so long that trust has
almost completely been lost and (b) cost cutting is a desired outcome,
although I don't think the people I talked to are clear on what that means to
them in the day to day.

