
Show HN: Like Airbnb but for food - negrit
https://www.cookening.com
======
enoptix
Very interesting concept! How do food & restuarant laws apply in Europe? I
know here in the US, restaurants need regular inspections by the local board
of health. And restaurant is defined as "a facility that prepares and sells
food directly to consumers for immediate consumption."

Presumably if people are paying the host, that host is now operating a
restaurant. I can already see the food lobby going crazy over this one in the
US.

~~~
Nursie
I would think there would be a lot of trouble with this in the UK, because if
you're serving food to people for money then you need hygiene certification
for the folks preparing the food and hygiene assessments for the preparation
areas, at the very least.

It's a nice idea, but like AirBnB it will probably fall foul of a lot of
consumer protection laws, and a lot of consumer protection laws really are
there for good reasons.

~~~
hacker789
They _are_ there for good reasons, but they doesn't mean they are good. At
least not in their current form.

If it's legal to have your neighbors over for dinner, but it becomes illegal
if they pay you back, something's wrong.

~~~
Nursie
That's not really what's going on here though is it? It's more like informal
restaurant businesses, with the service acting as a directory and booking
portal.

Not that I'm saying this shouldn't be allowed, but there are good reasons we
have hygiene rules and it's at least worthwhile investigating how they ought
to apply here.

------
negrit
For those who want to know the tech stack. We are running on heroku(the
european datacenter)[1] and amazon S3, we use RoR with some pretty nice
gems(active admin, devise, ...) and Jquery for the JS. For metric we use
Mixpanel and Google Analytics. For our emails we use Amazon and Mailjet.

The are on the european DC because of the Safe Harbor.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Safe_Harbor_Priva...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Safe_Harbor_Privacy_Principles)

~~~
jcase
When the EU region was announced[1] last month they weren't Safe Harbor
compliant (yet). Has that changed?

[1] <https://blog.heroku.com/archives/2013/4/24/europe-region> (near the
bottom).

~~~
negrit
You're right, I did a bit of a mic mac there.

They are still not compliant with Safe Harbor in the US. Anyway since our
company is located in France, the french privacy law allow us to use a hosting
located in EU (instead of a US SafeHarbor one). Heroku did the EU launch just
for this.

~~~
Forgotlogintwo
No. "It does not currently address data residency or jurisdiction concerns.
You should assume that some portions of your app and its data will be in, or
pass through, datacenters located in the US."

------
gregschlom
Hehehe, the "Airbnb for food" tagline reminded me of the
<http://incubatorincubator.com>:

Specifically:

"AirBnBForY. AirBnBforY specializes in incubating companies that are the
"AirBnB" for their respective industries (e.g. "The AirBnB for pantry space"
and "The AirBnB for condiments" (A lot of people aren't making full use of
their mustard, ketchup, and other condiments. AirDiments creates a marketplace
by which people can use each others condiments)."

~~~
negrit
Haha, I didn't know this parody of ycombinator.com

So, "AirBnBForY" is the punchline for the HN post but we obviously don't pitch
it like this :)

------
k-mcgrady
I love this idea and it seems like a great way to bring people together in
real life through technology. Like others though I think this could have
trouble with laws and probably to a greater extent than AirBnB. How liable is
the host if there is an food poisoning incident for example? Is Cookening
liable at all?

Anyway, good luck, it's a great idea.

~~~
theklub
Kinda sad that the first thing we have to worry about is how we could possibly
be sued while having strangers over.

~~~
Nursie
Having strangers over _for money_

This is not really some sort of altruistic dinner club.

------
skue
Very interesting idea, and great website!

A question: I'm curious whether you put a lot of consideration into the review
system?

Asking hosts to invite strangers over and publicly rate their hospitality,
cooking, and home is asking a lot. Yes, Airbnb does something similar, but
renting a room feels like more of a business transaction. Having dinner guests
share a meal is more personal and intimate - and it would be easier for hosts
to take reviews personally.

Also, how will you deal with hyper-critical guests who leave mostly negative
reviews? A few negative "foodies" like this could be a morale crusher for
early hosts.

In any case, good luck!

~~~
negrit
This is a very good remark. That's the reason why we have this three notes :
food, place and hospitality. As you see, we're asking guests to review the
hospitality, not the person.

As always, it is very important to us that guest expectations before any
booking are the right ones: hosts do not commit on serving food like in a
restaurant, they commit it is home made, they commit on a meal structure
(number of courses) and they'll respect food specifics mentionned by their
guests.

------
iamwil
One thing you guys should be worried about is the effort it takes for someone
to host. Airbnb can be as much or little time and work intensive as the host
likes. That makes it easy to host. With hosting a meal, it's always going to
be time and work intensive, which limits the number of people that would be
willing to do it on a continual basis.

Solve that, and you might have something interesting on hand.

~~~
evv
Millions of people already cook and clean for themselves and their family. Is
it that hard to add one or two extra plates?

~~~
iamwil
Many more eat out or over the sink. Even families have been eating out more
since fast food became more prevalent (at least in the US). Has the trend
reversed?

I'm not saying it won't work. It's something that people miss when they think
of this idea. Perhaps it works best in countries with a strong home cooking
tradition, rather than the US, like the ones listed on their homepage.

~~~
NoPiece
Just talking about dinner, most people eat at home most of the time. Here is
one study from 2005 on that:

RESTAURANT MEALS FOR DINNER LAST WEEK?

None: 47% 1 night: 27% 2-3 nights: 21% 4+ nights: 4%

<http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500160_162-1060315.html>

 _This poll was conducted among a nationwide random sample of 936 adults,
interviewed by telephone October 30-November 1, 2005. The error due to
sampling for results based on the entire sample could be plus or minus three
percentage points._

------
SippinLean
Cool idea. I wouldn't really want to eat food prepared by someone I didn't
know if that food/kitchen isn't subject to health inspections. The answer to
the "What about the hygiene?" FAQ doesn't do enough to assuage my fears in
this regard.

It says tables are "manually reviewed by the team". Reviewed with the
stringent standards of the health dept?

~~~
negrit
Thanks for the feedback! It means we have to improve the FAQ on this part.

Hosts cook and eat with their guests, so it's a very good way to be sure about
the quality: First because hosts eat it as well, second because they'll have a
direct feedback, and it's not very pleasant to serve bad food to people when
they're eating with you.

In fact, we think there's a fear of a risk more than a real risk. There's less
risk to eat something that has been cooked at home, in smal quantities, than
something in a big restaurant with food that has stayed in a fridge for
several weeks...

Actually, have you often been sick when invited by friend or family?

Reviews we're doing are based on information provided by hosts (description,
pictures), as well as email or phone contact if needed. And the review system
will help. Risk averse foodies will eat with hosts with no reviews, less risk
averse will go to hosts that already have a good reputation on the system.

------
desireco42
This is so weird that it has to work. My first reaction was that it was dumb
and no-one would do it, but this is exactly the first reaction to most things
that turned out to be success. I definitely wish you all the best. Plus I see
you are focused on Europe, which is probably place where good cuisine is
highly valued.

~~~
negrit
Thank you !

------
hawkharris
It's very smart of Cookening to provide information about WHY users should
connect with Facebook. As a privacy conscious user, I find that this is
missing from many sites. I might be willing to share my information, but you
have to explain what's in it for me in a straight-forward way.

~~~
negrit
Thank you !

This should definitively be a best practice.

------
Aga
Very nice concept!

I hope this catches fire like Airbnb! At least here in Finland "Restaurant
Day" [1] has already become somewhat of an institution, so I bet there's
potential for Cookening too!

A minor detail: I'd appreciate the _full_ price to be displayed with a side
note like "including Cookening service free 3€".

Or is the service fee per group? In that case it could be something like: "15€
per guest + 3€ Cookening service fee per group"

With the current layout the service fee feels almost hidden.

Best of luck with this!

[1] <http://www.visitfinland.com/article/restaurant-day/>

~~~
negrit
Thank you ! I'll forward the feedback to our UI/UX guy !

------
mmahemoff
Super Marmite, based in France, pitched this in 2010. I think it's still
going.

<http://www.super-marmite.com/>

~~~
jnsaff2
I was a founder at <http://eatwithme.net> but have since left the team.

Feel free to shoot me questions, should you have any.

~~~
wingerlang
Why did you leave?

------
resu
I think this is a fantastic idea! I would definitely try it out if it were
available in the areas I am planning to travel to.

Any plans to expand to Asia?

~~~
negrit
Thanks for the kind words !

We currently have hosts in Chile, Canada, ... so Asia should come soon.
Basically as soon as someone open a table in Asia it's done. If you are asking
about our marketing strategy, I don't know yet.

------
zevyoura
This reminds me a lot of the phenomenon of Pop-up Restaurants[1]; your site is
very much like a booking interface for pop-ups. Good luck, I love the concept.

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop-up_restaurant>

~~~
negrit
Thank you !

------
michaelbwang
I've thought about launching an idea like this in the US. After doing some
research, it proved to be too difficult to execute because of foodservice
regulations and ensuring safety.

I like your concept, especially emphasizing the benefits of home cooking. Here
are some things I think you should think carefully about: -how do you ensure
safety on both ends (buyer and seller)? -why would someone want to use your
platform instead of doing their own underground restaurant? -how do you vet
hosts? Is there a vetting process for hosts? -how do you ensure a pleasant
group meal dynamic?

Would love to chat more about this if would like. This is an idea I would
really, really like to see succeed!

~~~
negrit
Hey Michael !

I'll try to answer to you questions:

>-how do you ensure safety on both ends (buyer and seller)?

We do review the hosts manually. For the guests, they have to talk with the
hosts in order to make a booking reservation so I guess if they don't get
along nothing is going to happen. We also have a review/rating system.

>-why would someone want to use your platform instead of doing their own
underground restaurant? Well, it's not only for money but also for the
pleasure to share your food, culture, ... with someone else. And in order to
start an underground restaurant you need to get known, it might be kind of
hard if it's underground.

>-how do you vet hosts?

Sorry for my broken english, but I don't understand this question.

>-Is there a vetting process for hosts?

Yes

> -how do you ensure a pleasant group meal dynamic?

We have a blog[1] where we are trying to tell our hosts how to organize/...
the event and how to deal with the culture difference.

My twitter handle and my email are in my HN profile, you're welcome to ping me
!

[1] <http://theartof.cookening.com>

------
teawithcarl
Underground food sharing (trust). Make it "karma points" (not cash) ...
important to be unregulated, like the "volunteer" payments with SideCar.

Imagine tens of thousands of locations in each city, with most people's points
netting to near-zero. In other words, you give as much as you take. Cooking vs
eating - self-cancelling at nearly 50/50.

Open trade in points, reputation scores, and trust. People without time to
cook may barter other reputations.

A vast cashless ecosystem.

Cuisine and location both, discovery via online maps.

Any home, any vehicle, anywhere that trust, reputation, and freedom may
actually develop.

Personally, I believe "regulation" leads to the unsafe (thinks McDonalds) food
ecosystem we have now.

~~~
saraid216
Why is it that people who come up with these thought experiments can never
resist talking about their beliefs?

Do you have a plan of implementation? A seed network to beat the cold start
problem? An actual, non-exploitable prototype for aiding discovery? A way to
demonstrate trustworthiness? Survey results to show enough people willing to
cook in order to provide sufficient supply to meet demand?

Or is this just a pipe dream?

~~~
teawithcarl
It's called future prototyping.

The Tommorow Project, by Intel.
[http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/research/tomorrow-
pro...](http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/research/tomorrow-project/the-
tomorrow-project.html)

~~~
saraid216
It's called refusing to face reality. Preaching sermons doesn't change the
world.

Make. A. Prototype.

You know what's awesome about Bitcoin? I'm not a Bitcoin fan. I think it's
silly, though I admittedly don't have the chops to properly evaluate it. But
you know what I can't help but respect about it? _It exists_. It's _in the
wild_. It's _real_. No matter what wankery I choose to criticize it with, I
have to square that with the actual effects it's producing.

No plan survives contact with reality. You cannot anticipate everything. This
is goddamn Hacker News.

Make a prototype.

~~~
teawithcarl
I've built code and companies, and needn't a lecture from you on how to build,
nor how to dream.

~~~
saraid216
Then don't provoke one. I'm not telling you _how_ to build; I'm telling you to
_build_.

------
erik14th
Looks pretty nice, I just miss a 'cursor:pointer' in the 'contact the host'
button.

~~~
negrit
Thank you for the feed back, I'll tell our UI/UX guy !

------
ferrantim
I love how no one (yet) on this thread took this as an opportunity to trash
france and it's startups. A sign of a very successful launch! Congrats to the
cookening team. Love the idea. Will use next time I'm in Paris!

~~~
negrit
Thank you !

------
hariis
I love this idea but don't like the idea of paying. How about instead of
paying money for the meal, have an option where you can host the hosts in
return at your place.

May be this doesn't belong in this app or may be it does..

~~~
hariis
Moreover, if there is no money involved, there are no issues with the law, I
would think.

------
aatifh
Looks good.

Actually, there are many players out there in this market such as:
<http://eatfeastly.com/> <https://kitchen.ly/> <http://bigtable.co/> (Coming
soon)

And some more here: [http://www.quora.com/Food-Tech-Startups/What-companies-
are-d...](http://www.quora.com/Food-Tech-Startups/What-companies-are-doing-or-
have-done-Airbnb-for-food)

It's a good idea this Airbnb for food. Winners will emerge. May the force be
with you. :)

~~~
negrit
Thank you for the kind words.

You forgot to mention many other websites on the market :)

------
ngrandy
This is an exciting concept that has been tackled by many teams, few of which
have yet been able to reach significant scale. But I believe it will happen.
Feastly (<http://eatfeastly.com/>) is a similar approach that is active in the
US. (I'm an advisor) The restaurant industry is massive (in the US, it's three
times the size of the accommodations industry) so winning even a small slice
is a win.

~~~
resu_nimda
This is somewhat off-topic, but it seems kind of odd that they went with a
"ly" name but didn't use that TLD, especially since "feastly" doesn't make a
lot of sense except to associate with that trend.

It looks like a cool service though, I requested an invite.

------
radio4fan
Looks like the same concept as <http://eatwith.com/>

I'm going to my first eatWith event tomorrow night...

~~~
negrit
It is actually the same concept.

Let me know how it went with eatwith. My email and my twitter handle are in my
HN profile.

------
adman7024
Give this Quora post a quick read [http://www.quora.com/Will-Airbnb-for-food-
be-a-successful-bu...](http://www.quora.com/Will-Airbnb-for-food-be-a-
successful-business-model)

Dozens of ventures have failed in this niche space .. wondering if Cookening
has found the secret sauce.

~~~
negrit
Thanks for the link !

------
bridgpal
Isn't this what <http://eatfeastly.com/> does?

~~~
negrit
Looks like eatfeastly.com is more oriented for local guests with local hosts
and we try to focus more with international guest

~~~
njk
Feastly is actually positioned for all demographics. There are lot of locals
and a lot of tourists (both US and foreign) that come to meals.

------
anonymous1983
There was another company that tried this concept. I forget the name, but they
are not hosting dinners in restaurants for a group of random people and
turning a profit. I remember they said something along the lines of burden on
the host was too much.

------
blt
I don't like the name. It sounds all jumbled and gross, the opposite of a
delicious meal.

~~~
negrit
Yeah yeah. In French we say: "les goûts et les couleurs, ça ne se discute
pas". I let you think about it.

------
ziggster
There's a new company in SF planning to do something similar called Bigtable.
Planning to launch soon <http://bigtable.co>

~~~
negrit
Thanks for the tips. I will follow them :)

------
klous
You should look into Housefed, it was a startup that did a very similar thing,
the person is now doing Tindie.

~~~
negrit
Thanks !

I will check it out.

------
evv
I couldn't find my country on the list. I live in the US.

Maybe "all over the world" really means "all over Europe"

~~~
untog
Well, welcome to the Internet most countries outside of the US experience
every day.

(a little snarky I know, but the US is fantastically sheltered in this regard.
I know plenty of people that have no idea that Hulu and various YouTube videos
are unavailable to people outside of the US)

------
SocrateInShorts
Hannibal Lecter would love this

~~~
negrit
Twist: I'm Hannibal Lecter !

------
kaoD
"Like X but Y" might be the worst elevator pitch ever. Or the best. I can't
decide.

~~~
negrit
Well it's punchline for HackerNews, not a pitch for YC

------
MyBoon
What is your Business model ?

~~~
negrit
We take a 16,7% on every booking request.
<https://www.cookening.com/en/faq/guests#answer2>

------
antoinec
This is awesome ! What are your plans about expanding abroad ?

~~~
negrit
Actually, as soon as possible ! We still have a lot of work to do, especially
to convert foodies into hosts and travelers into guests but we are working on
it !

~~~
taude
Warning: foodies != good hosts (or good cooks) in much the same way as book
critiques != authors.

------
lexap
Isn't this basically kitchensurfing.com?

~~~
contingencies
This looks well executed ... if you're in NY, and want the chef to come to
you.

------
groundCode
nice work

~~~
groundCode
what's your tech stack btw?

~~~
kornifex
Here ! <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5752057>

