
Light Pollution Masks the Milky Way for a Third of the World’s Population - hvo
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/11/science/milky-way-light-pollution-dark-skies.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fscience&action=click&contentCollection=science&region=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=sectionfront&_r=0
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sakopov
I think the first time I've witnessed the Milky Way was only 3 years ago at
27. Ever since than I'd often grab my DSLR and drive a couple of hours in the
middle of the night outside the city limits to shoot the stars. Quite frankly,
unless you live close to a large city like NYC, you're likely 30 minutes to 1
hour away from a decent location to observe the Milky Way.

You're probably not going to see it in its full glory as you would at the
Grand Canyon, but it would still be a memorable sight. If you're interested in
chasing the Milky Way, check the light pollution map [1] to find some dark
spots around your area and then head over to Clear Dark Sky [2] to check
weather and visibility conditions. Also, if you're Android or iPhone user,
check out Star Walk 2 [3] to help locate the Milky Way (and a ton of other
neat stuff!) when you're on site.

[1]
[http://darksitefinder.com/maps/world.html](http://darksitefinder.com/maps/world.html)

[2] [http://www.cleardarksky.com/csk/](http://www.cleardarksky.com/csk/)

[3] [http://vitotechnology.com/star-walk-2-guide-sky-night-
day.ht...](http://vitotechnology.com/star-walk-2-guide-sky-night-day.html)

~~~
Ultimatt
Not in the UK. More like 6 hours to get somewhere in Scotland or Wales thats
not populated at relatively high density. Even then ive never seen the
milkyway apart from on a greek island in the middle of nowhere. The UK is as
denseley populated as the densest New York state in the USA. Europe is very
different to the USA on what the impact of a hundred years of
industrialisation has meant.

~~~
onion2k
That's not really true. There are a fairly large number of "Dark Sky Discovery
Sites" where there are laws controlling the amount of light pollution, and
where you can see the Milky Way really well. You're probably not more than an
hour or two from one, and a few hours from a "Milky Way Class" site. I'm
fortunate enough to live quite near the Kielder Park International Dark Sky
Zone.

There's a map here: [http://www.darkskydiscovery.org.uk/dark-sky-discovery-
sites/...](http://www.darkskydiscovery.org.uk/dark-sky-discovery-
sites/map.html)

~~~
Brakenshire
They've got a 'milky way class' site about 5 miles from Croydon, good luck
with that!

I applaud the people who set up this site and map, but they should be a bit
more honest that going to a special event in a park isn't going to eliminate
the continuous orange glow which exists anywhere within 50 miles of London,
let alone allow you see the sort of sky that's visible in really remote
locations.

I'm sure Kielder would be a great place to go, though. I'd love to go to
Kielder Observatory.

------
JoeDaDude
It's a shame the International Dark Sky Association hasn't gotten more
traction. They advocate the use of lighting and fixtures that reduce light
pollution without sacrificing illumination for safety, etc. (Spoiler: just
make sure the light shines down and not upwards).
[http://darksky.org/](http://darksky.org/)

~~~
Zak
Let's not leave out the option of simply _not_ using fixed, always-on lighting
in many locations. The evidence for safety benefits from it is generally
mixed:

* There's definitely a benefit to lighting pedestrian crosswalks, though that benefit might be _increased_ if the lighting is triggered by a pedestrian pressing a button before crossing.

* There is a benefit where vehicles are prone to hit fixed objects or drive off the side of a curve, but reflectors or low-output marker lights can provide that benefit in many cases.

* There does not appear to be a reduction in crime from installing fixed lighting in public places. Criminals require light to select victims and break in to vehicles or structures. Some studies have shown reductions in crimes; others have shown increases. Most show no significant effect.

In addition, the capabilities of portable lighting have increased dramatically
since most of our cultural assumptions about street lighting came to be. A
pocket-sized bicycle light powered by a modern LED and an 18650 Li-ion battery
can provide a generous amount of light for urban riding all night long and
then some and recharge from a MicroUSB cable in a few hours.

~~~
treehau5
An often overlooked reason the lights being always on in convenient stores,
groceries, ect: to increase the likelyhood that the perpetrator is spotted and
can be later identified. Also helps the video cameras catch them.

~~~
blacksmith_tb
It seems like having PIR sensors turn on the lights would still take care of
that, and likely scare away anyone who'd sneaked into a dark building...

------
zzleeper
From this map I wonder:

[http://www.youcanseethemilkyway.com/light-
pollution/](http://www.youcanseethemilkyway.com/light-pollution/)

WTF are these huge masses of light off the coasts of Argentina and Peru?

~~~
lotharbot
I saw this comment was downvoted and I figured you were trolling or something,
but then I looked and there's a legit mystery there.

There are two big masses of lights, one off the coast of Peru and one off the
coast of Argentina, that aren't connected to any landmasses whatsoever. Look
250 km W of Barranca (which is north of Lima on the Peruvian coast), and for
the rest, start with the Falklands and look for a cluster 100 km north, one
150-200 km northwest, and one 100 km west.

The cluster off of Peru might be displaced from the Ecuadorian islands to the
north -- the shape looks vaguely similar to the islands Isabela, Fernandina,
Santiago, Santa Cruz, and San Cristobal (at around 0 deg N, 90 deg W).

I suspect the cluster near the Falklands has been displaced about 300 km to
the southeast -- the "ring" just north of the Falklands matches the area
around Comodoro Rividavia, the western cluster matches Isla Wellington, and
the northern inverted-Y shape seems to roughly follow highways 26/40 in the
western part of south Argentina.

EDIT: I moved around a bit more and noticed there are lots of faint streaks
off of the coasts of South America, including a fairly big blob just east of
Rio. I don't know whether it's browser-specific or something screwy on the
backend.

EDIT 2: while most of my local area (Denver) looked sane, I noticed a bright
cluster near Hereford, CO (around 41 N, 104 W) and that's just pure farmland.
The map shows [0] in the middle of a fairly heavily light-polluted area.

[0]
[https://www.google.com/maps/place/Avondale,+CO+81022/@40.966...](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Avondale,+CO+81022/@40.9662973,-104.3348417,3a,60y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sczXN396g486UklKht-
BYug!2e0!7i3328!8i1664!4m5!3m4!1s0x8713b236412d87cd:0xe0502d2948a6efc2!8m2!3d38.2375025!4d-104.3510792!6m1!1e1)

~~~
onethree
fishing vessels:
[http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/Malvinas/](http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/Malvinas/)

~~~
lotharbot
Interesting. I'd definitely believe that for some of those clusters
(particularly the inverted Y). Not sure it fits with the cluster near Peru,
and definitely not the one in northeastern Colorado.

~~~
dalke
The one in NE Colorado is likely oil extraction from the Niobrara shale
formation.

The street view is from 2007. If you switch to aerial view (from 2016) you'll
see many identical looking installations which are likely oil wells installed
during the previous 10 years.

[http://archives.datapages.com/data/mountain-geologist-
rmag/d...](http://archives.datapages.com/data/mountain-geologist-
rmag/data/052/052003/5_rmag-mg520005.htm) says that since 2009 some 4400 wells
have gone into Weld County, CO.

------
kornish
In 1994, a post-earthquake power grid blackout in LA caused all the light
sources in an area to stop functioning. Allegedly, an observatory received
calls about strange shapes and lights in the sky; what people were seeing was
the Milky Way for the first time. [1]

[1]: [http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/04/local/la-me-light-
po...](http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/04/local/la-me-light-
pollution-20110104/2)

(there's some doubt as to the legitimacy of the story, but it's still a funny
tale)

------
niftich
Growing up, I spent all of my time in areas with lots of light pollution. When
I was younger and read about how people would use the stars to navigate, I was
incredulous -- it didn't occur to 6-year-old me that in times past you could
see more than just a dozen stars.

~~~
wfunction
I'm still incredulous if I'm being honest. Even though I know this.

~~~
Brakenshire
It's not difficult to get compass directions from the stars, that's not a bad
start.

------
pjmorris
As a kid in coastal Northern Florida, I could see the Milky Way by night, and
the moon rockets by day. The two sights left a very positive mark.

My wife and I camped near the Grand Canyon the night before a raft trip there.
I'd forgotten how beautiful the Milky Way was, was amazed she'd never seen it,
and delighted at her delight to see it.

------
King-Aaron
I find it very strange living in a city, where every night you can go outside
and practically read a book with the amount of reflected light. Having grown
up in remote Western Australia, I got to see the whole 'fish-bowl' effect of
the night sky, basically every night.

I still try to get around an hour or two outside of the city every weekend
just to stargaze.

------
jonathansizz
This article is quite shallow, but the one linked below is excellent and
discusses in some detail several of the serious side-effects of light
pollution (on human health, animal populations, crime, as well as wasted
money):

[http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/08/20/the-dark-
side-2](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/08/20/the-dark-side-2)

------
vitd
If you're interested in seeing it, there's a nice website that has tips on how
and a light pollution map:

[http://www.youcanseethemilkyway.com](http://www.youcanseethemilkyway.com)

------
gkop
Not mentioned: shooting stars! When I lived in Taos, NM I saw hundreds a year.
Since moving to the bay 5 years ago, I've seen 1 or maybe 2.

~~~
vvanders
Also ISS, We caught it last night and it was incredibly bright since it was
just after sunset.

~~~
JonathonW
A good ISS pass should be visible virtually anywhere-- at its brightest (when
it's passing almost directly overhead), it'll be either the second or third
brightest object visible in the sky (behind the moon and occasionally Venus).

~~~
maxxxxx
Yes, you can see it even in LA. It's pretty noticeable since it moves quite
fast (takes around 3-5 minutes from horizon to horizon)

------
Alex3917
It's crazy to me that you're not allowed to just dump your garbage in a public
park, and yet you're allowed to run lights on your property all night if you
want.

Beyond just the aesthetics, from a public health perspective it's ridiculous
that we lock people up for smoking weed, but allow pretty much unlimited light
pollution even though it's likely worse in terms of health.

~~~
ra1n85
Aside from the fact that dumping garbage in a public park and leaving your
lights on are not even remotely close in terms of impact, it's important to
point out that one actually serves a utility.

Having lived in cities where electricity is extremely expensive and lights are
scarce, I can vouch for the value of light (particularly in poorer, urban
areas) during night time. Perhaps you cannot appreciate lit roadways and
sidewalks until you've experienced their absence.

~~~
lucaspiller
It depends on the location. In large cities and urban areas sure it makes
sense, but outside there is really little need for street lighting.

I'm from a village (~350 people) that to this day still doesn't have street
lights and it's great - if you go out at night you just carry a torch. Any
nights when it's clear you get a great view of the Milky Way (although there
are some large towns ~15 miles away so it could be better).

The roads in the area are all unlit too, so anytime I drive on a main road or
motorway with street lights (outside populated areas) it makes me cringe.

~~~
kdamken
Most people don't care enough about seeing the stars. They would rather feel
safe in their neighborhoods if they need to go out at night, and street lights
do a good job of providing that feeling.

~~~
Zak
_street lights do a good job of providing that feeling_

But there isn't significant evidence that they provide that _reality_.
Changing the perception is very much an uphill battle.

------
gloves
One reason to love living in the country. Sometimes there is just nothing
better than a beanbag, blanket, and a clear night sky.

------
dr_zoidberg
The data used in the interactive map is old. Near the Falklands Islands you
should see, along the 200-nautical-mile border of the Argentinean sea, a huge
ammount of light: squid fishing ships, most of the are said to be chinese.

For example, like this:
[http://www.inquinamentoluminoso.it/download/mondo_ridotto0p2...](http://www.inquinamentoluminoso.it/download/mondo_ridotto0p25.gif)

From the italian site,
[http://www.inquinamentoluminoso.it/worldatlas/pages/fig1.htm](http://www.inquinamentoluminoso.it/worldatlas/pages/fig1.htm)

------
LeifCarrotson
> The Scene Viewer can't be opened in your browser. Web Scene Viewer is not
> supported on mobile devices.

Anybody have a nice high-resolution screenshot of this? That's the content I
was most interested in!

~~~
niftich
There is one from 2006 by David Lorenz at UWisc

[https://djlorenz.github.io/astronomy/lp2006/](https://djlorenz.github.io/astronomy/lp2006/)

Both static images and a Google Maps layer is provided.

------
pc2g4d
I believe I may have commented on this before, but it's my opinion that
artificial (especially electric) lighting is a cause of huge health and
psychological problems. Not long ago the power was out in my neighborhood for
about five hours at the end of the day. When the sun went down, it actually
got dark. People came out on their porches to catch the last rays of sunlight,
creating a sense of community as neighbors saw each other for the first time.
With the neighborhood getting dark at the end of the day, I actually started
to feel sleepy. It felt _good_ for the day to feel like it was ending.

Something really is lost with pervasive, always-on electric lighting.

I haven't read it yet, but this book on the topic looks intriguing:
[https://www.amazon.com/End-Night-Searching-Darkness-
Artifici...](https://www.amazon.com/End-Night-Searching-Darkness-
Artificial/dp/0316182915)

For my part I've blacked out my window as much as possible to exclude the
light from street lights and neighbors, and I've introduced a smart light in
my bedroom which I use to simulate the rise and setting of the sun. It's
really helped me get a sense of the days' start and end which I've been
missing, though I hadn't realized it until that power outage.

------
aaron695
Personally I think it makes going out in the wilderness special.

If it was always there we wouldn't appreciate it.

~~~
timthorn
I think history records that the night sky has always been appreciated.

------
vkjv
I've lived on the US East Coast my whole life. I like to camp, so I thought I
had seen the Milky Way before. Then, I took a canoeing trip in northern
Minnesota and camped a night on an island in the middle of a lake. It was a
crystal clear night and there was zero light pollution. Gorgeous! Here I was a
decently well educated adult and I had no idea the sky could look like that.

------
js2
Previous discussion:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11880876](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11880876)

I'll make the same comment here: I was just in Mitzpe Ramon, IL with my family
on a moonless weekend night. It is supposed to be the darkest point in Israel.
The viewing was fairly good that night. And yet my kids were disappointed upon
seeing the Milky Way. They'd expected the night sky to look like what they've
seen in photos, like shown in the NYT article, even though I'd forewarned them
not to. :-(

------
zappo2938
Anyone in the Bay Area is a two hour drive South to the Esalen Institute which
has hot springs on a cliff over the Pacific open to the public from 1am - 3am.
I recommend everyone to go there and experience the Milky Way from there. [0]

[0] [http://www.esalen.org/page/esalen-hot-
springs](http://www.esalen.org/page/esalen-hot-springs)

------
samch
There is a nice animated video about people waking up the wonders of a natural
night sky: [https://vimeo.com/67419875](https://vimeo.com/67419875)

I can still remember the first time I saw the Milky Way. At first, I thought
it was just a cloud, but man, it was beautiful.

------
JoeAltmaier
I wonder if this hasn't always been true. From the first community fires lit
at night, to the days of gaslights and now electric street lights, much of the
population has been in cities away from clear skies. Only a lucky few have
ever lived alone away from towns.

------
hsribei
Forests (aka the largest connected land-based photosensor arrays on Earth?)
and whole ecosystems likely use the visible night sky as a shared
clock/synchronization mechanism.

Can't begin to imagine the potential consequences of it "going bright".

------
grecy
After living in remote parts of North America for 10 years, I recently visited
my home country of Australia.

In the middle of a town of 30,000 people, near Melbourne, the stars were jaw-
droppingly good. So much so I setup my DSLR and took a bunch of photos.

------
jasonkester
My 4 year old son asked for a Remote Control Helicopter for xmas this year.
Specifically, a Helicopter with a laser beam so that he could shoot out the
street light that shines on our back yard.

Evidently I complain about this a lot.

------
fiatmoney
Frankly, I'm OK with trading off massive economic growth and reduction of
human misery, including conquering darkness itself, in exchange for having to
take a trip out to the country if you want to go stargazing.

~~~
naz
What if it's not a tradeoff we need to make? What if you can have both a dark
sky and a thriving civilization?

~~~
fiatmoney
The fact that 1/3 of the world's population (in a world where 1/2 lives in
urban areas) does not live in such circumstances strongly suggests that that
is an arrangement is not empirically available, or not empirically valued.

Even more frankly, I'm not sure that availability of stargazing is a universal
enough aesthetic preference, compared to extremely widespread desire for
nighttime illumination, to give it any significant policy weight at all.

~~~
clumsysmurf
> an arrangement is not empirically available, or not empirically valued.

Maybe its value is beyond your reductionistic analysis. For example, light
pollution impacts bats which pollinate flowers which only bloom at night
(cactus, etc).

------
eugeneionesco
>light pollution

That's the most cynical name you can give to civilisation. Life in the dark is
horrendous no matter how many stars you can see.

This is something to be proud.

~~~
Zak
Portable lighting is a thing. Cars have lights on them. I carry a flashlight
when I go out at night.

The light I carry is under 1x4" in size and can provide enough light to see
well enough to walk comfortably and to be seen by cars (70 lumens) for 15
hours on a single charge of its rechargeable battery. Should I want more
light, it can match the output of a car headlight (1000 lumens) for an hour.

Lights with this kind of performance can be had for $15, plus another $10 or
so for the battery and charger. It's not a binary choice between life in the
dark and illuminating a bunch of mostly-unused space.

~~~
mac01021
I agree with you. That said, a cursory google search suggests that NYC serves
over 10M people with only 25K street lamps. So I suspect that, in many places,
there is something to be said for the efficiency of fixed lighting.

