

Restaurant Payment is an Awful Experience - nicklovescode
http://nickcammarata.com/paying-at-restaurants-is-an-awful-experience?2

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DanielStraight
There is always the option of asking for the check when your food arrives,
explaining that you will need to leave as soon as you are done eating. I've
seen this done many times without ever seeing someone refuse.

And, as others have pointed out, attitudes on this vary considerably around
the world. To some, the idea of being brought the bill and expected to pay and
leave as soon as you are finished eating is strange.

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nicklovescode
That is one good way to handle it. I unfortunately usually forget to do so.

One other thing I've tried is tried to do is give them my card in the
beginning and charge me when I'm done. This works well, because at the very
end I just get a paper to sign them I'm done. The issue is this seems
arrogant, so I don't do it.

I'm writing this from an American point of view, and I imagine it's handled
differently in different places.

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socrates1998
I agree with the article.

Why can't we just pay at the register and be done with it?

Adding on to the Japanese restaurants. They have a call-button system which is
much more efficient than having to flag down a waiter.

And, payment is more common at the register.

This allows Japanese restaurant to have fewer waiters and waitresses working.

You miss out on the interaction with the wait staff, but that's not really why
I was there.

Japan is far from perfect when it comes to business practices, but their
dining experience is second to none for the most part.

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codex
I suspect that paying at the register cuts down on the amount of tips, which
makes it hard for a single restaurant to buck the trend. That restaurant would
have to raise menu prices to pay for the lost tips, which makes the restaurant
less competitive.

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martinshen
There are a few startups tackling this end of the business. Integration here
with restaurants is challenging and usually only applicable to people who use
restaurants as a utility (not a luxury).

Spoke to someone yesterday about
[http://www.tabbedout.com/](http://www.tabbedout.com/) which markets it's "Pay
when you're ready" thing.

~~~
handsomecam
[Disclosure: I work for TabbedOut]

Thanks martin for the mention!

We’ve spent a lot of time working on this problem space. Ultimately, there are
a few different takes on solutions and different ones make more sense in
certain situations. The IRL vending machine scenario outlined in the original
article may make sense in some counter service places, but far less in a white
tablecloth restaurant situation.

While on the surface it may seem like it is not a hard technical problem, it
can be. Two approaches to solving the problem include writing middleware
integrations for incumbent point of sale software (eg. TabbedOut) or write the
point of sale software yourself (eg. Square). Both can have hurdles to
overcome on the technical side as well as the human side.

So some of the obstacles in place are: is there an existing point of sale?
Would the restaurant require something more powerful than an old school cash
register? Who should be processing the credit cards? How quick does fund
settlement take place? How much disruption of the normal business process is
acceptable (fix things, but don’t make a server’s life more difficult)?

On another note, from the end of the article where Nick mentions that he would
be happy paying an extra 10% tip, that seems like a nice gesture, but in
practice that isn’t a common mindset from the consumer. When TabbedOut
launched, there was a $0.99 service charge for tabs opened with the app.
Overall, the concept of making the consumer pay for the service was not very
well received.

We’re constantly working on improving our solution and would welcome any
feedback. Oh, we’re also hiring engineers if this sounds like a problem anyone
would like to help solve [careers@tabbedout.com].

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mikestew
I simply won't be held hostage at a restaurant when I'm the one with something
they want (payment). After a reasonable amount of time, I'll get up and head
to the door, bill in hand. If the waitstaff does not come dashing toward me,
I'll stop by the register if there is one, or tell the hostess that I want to
pay my bill. I rarely need to do this, but the fact that I ever have to do it
at all annoys me. I'm not annoyed because my oh-so-precious time is being
wasted, but because it's such a broken system for both patron and restaurant
staff. Business owners have incentive to fix it if only for themselves (and
some do, with payment at the register up front).

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dfxm12
Do you find yourself only patronizing places with a register up front?

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mikestew
Nope, as I said I rarely need to do what I described. Now if it's a habit of a
particular restaurant, yeah, I'll just quit going there. But sticking to
"register up front" means a lot of eating at Denny's. :-)

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imartin2k
I love the Japanese system: They put the bill next to you as soon as your
first order comes, and then they keep it updated every time you order
something more. Once you are done, you take your bill to the cashier at the
exit, pay, and leave.

I really wish restaurants around the world would adopt that system (I guess
the dependency on tips is one aspect that prevents this approach from being
implemented in other countries. In Japan, there is no tipping).

But tipping is another annoyance in today's restaurant culture anyway.

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masterleep
I like the South Korean system. Stand up when you're ready to leave and walk
out. They will intercept you by the door for payment. No high tech necessary,
sorry YC folk.

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Aco-
what if they fail to intercept you? free lunch?

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wmkn
You pay the cashier at a counter near the exit - there is always a person
there, so they will always 'intercept' you.

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NateDad
Leave cash on the table, that's the fastest way to do it.

This is also a great use for bitcoin. Just have the waitress drop a QR code
(specific to your party) on the table when you sit down, and you can pay
without ever having to flag anyone down, and no need to have an ipad per table
or anything expensive and fancy like that, and unlike cash above, no one can
swipe the money off the table. That's trivial to do even with current bitcoin
technology.

~~~
nicklovescode
How do you calculate tax and such properly? Also, I like having it attached to
a digital system so I can review my expenditures later.

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ehnto
In Australia, often times you pay first. I understand that some people find
this offensive, as the implication they feel is being made is that they'll
walk out without paying. But it makes way more sense to do it this way, and an
intelligent person can deduce why a company might want to structure the
process this way. It's nothing personal, and it's not a sign of a cheaper
restaurant.

You walk in, sit down with a menu, then order and pay at the counter and sit
back down. Not terribly difficult, and it solves all the problems in the
article.

The only time I'm waiting is when in line to order (if there is a line), and
when waiting for food. At no point is the status of my time there in question
either. Are they finished? Are they waiting? Have they paid? Where's their
bill? All questions never needing an answer, as if you have food, you've payed
for it. If you're done, you can leave.

You also don't have to hand your card to somebody you've never met and hope
for the best.

Smoother, safer, more concise and more efficient.

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dfxm12
Communication is key. If you are in a hurry, tell the wait staff. They should
be more than happy to oblige.

I really think you're in the minority of expecting to be in and out of a
restaurant quickly, save for diners.

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mpayments
This is an idea that startups often try and quickly abandon (see Toast in
Boston). The clear winner in Manhattan is Cover - I think this is exactly what
you're looking for.

TabbedOut and MyCheck have really struggled to get any real traction here in
New York. I saw recently that Cover does more volume in Manhattan than all the
competition combined. Not sure if there are any good options in SF.

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Paul_S
The reason behind the deliberately obtuse system of paying is tipping. Unless
you change your culture you're not going to solve the problem.

