

OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on - openbsddesktop
http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=138972987203440&w=2
http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.openbsdfoundation.org&#x2F;donations.html
and
http:&#x2F;&#x2F;openbsd.org&#x2F;want.html
======
PaulRobinson
So let's deal with the elephant in the room: the OpenBSD project is run by
complete and utter jerks. Not just Theo, but he has set the bar quite low when
it comes to friendliness and tolerance of questions from younger/less
experienced contributors. Linus' rants on the Linux kernel lists are almost
cookie cutter copies of Theo's.

There is "opinionated software" and then there is Theo being an intolerable,
obnoxious, ego-maniac.

As such many people are going to see this and laugh and think "good riddance",
and will be happy to see OpenBSD disappear.

That will only be enhanced by the fact the books are closed, the shortfall on
the electric bill is inexplicably $20k, and nobody is prepared to explain the
detail.

In essence rudeness + shady accounting practice != open source community that
should feel a sense of entitlement from non-core users

It's a shame because the code (especially the crypto code) is _really_ good.
Seriously, go read it: I used to love reading the OpenBSD source, but I never
contributed anything because Theo was such an absolute jerk.

I hope the guys who work on the crypto stuff at least either keep doing so
elsewhere (Free- or Net-), or a new project without the need for $20k in
electricity bills spins up to keep going.

~~~
sliverstorm
_the shortfall on the electric bill is inexplicably $20k_

Quick back-of-the-envelope: At $0.12/kWh, the shortfall is about 20kW of
continuous power.

Do they have significant HVAC requirements? I don't think I see 20kW of iron
in the two racks that get pictured.

~~~
chrissnell
For every watt you put in, you need to cool that watt, which requires a high
percentage of a second watt. Some of that equipment is almost 20 years old,
maybe more. One those old machines could warm an office back in 1994.

On top of the electricity for the servers and for cooling, there is also
maintenance: replacing ancient drives and other system components when they
fail (which may require paying out the arse for some gear on eBay), fixing
cooling equipment (ever replaced a dead AC unit in your house?), network
maintenance and upgrades, internet connection, etc., etc. The list goes on and
on. $20K seems reasonable to me. He's not asking for $20MM or even $200K,
guys. He's not mining bitcoins. Please be reasonable.

~~~
sliverstorm
$20k is not inherently unreasonable, but I won't donate if I don't have a
better idea of what is going on "behind the curtain", which is why I'm idly
musing.

------
jxf
Just to make the call to action a little more direct, the donation link is
here:

[http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html](http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html)

~~~
gommm
Thanks, just donated, I use openssh every day so it just makes sense.

~~~
scott_s

      [scott_s@local ~] history | wc -l
         500
      [scott_s@local ~] history | grep ssh | wc -l
         191
    

Donated.

~~~
chongli
The shell history really ought to have some sort of de-dupe feature. Too many
lines of history get taken up by duplicate entries!

~~~
zshhasoptions
try adding setopt HIST_SAVE_NO_DUPS to your .zshrc

you could also have a look at HIST_FIND_NO_DUPS and HIST_IGNORE_ALL_DUPS (more
options at
[http://zsh.sourceforge.net/Doc/Release/Options.html](http://zsh.sourceforge.net/Doc/Release/Options.html)
)

If you still use bash, now is a good time to upgrade to zsh

~~~
AdamN
'Upgrade' and a sourceforge link don't usually go together :-/

I'm a zsh user but am surprised that you guys are still using sourceforge
instead of github.

------
4ad
Useful (non-slashdot) links:

Initial ask for help: [http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-
misc&m=138730448307723&w=2](http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-
misc&m=138730448307723&w=2)

How much it costs: [http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-
misc&m=138972987203440&w=2](http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-
misc&m=138972987203440&w=2)

Why old hardware platforms matter: [http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-
tech&m=138973312304511&w=2](http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-
tech&m=138973312304511&w=2)

Why not kickstarter: [http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-
tech&m=138973837906139&w=2](http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-
tech&m=138973837906139&w=2)

And most importantly, the donation link:
[http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html](http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html)

~~~
sliverstorm
_I really love how we keep getting advice.

Anyone want to suggest we hold a bake sale?_

It's funny to hear this sort of thing from someone trying to accrue $20k in
donations. Yes, many people will give bad advice. No, you don't really get to
complain about it when you are asking them for large sums of money.

~~~
toyg
I guess you don't know Theo de Raadt ;)

The guy is infamous for being one of the most aggressive, sarcastic and
trollish OSS developers out there. He's been like that for 20+ years, he's not
going to change just because they are 20 grand short.

Part of the success OpenBSD has enjoyed is in fact due to this uncompromising
attitude: Theo pushed hard against security-by-obscurity, binary blobs,
undocumented proprietary hardware and poor development practices. With
openSSH, they pretty much set the bar for security-related programs the wotld
over.

At the same time, Theo's personality routinely drives away a lot of very
capable developers and users, which limited the overall popularity OpenBSD
could ever reach.

~~~
jethro_tell
>At the same time, Theo's personality routinely drives away a lot of very
capable developers and users, which limited the overall popularity OpenBSD
could ever reach.

It would be nice if we could all work in an environment where we could be
abrasive as we want and still get paid. But this is life and not many people
have that opportunity.

If Theo want's to put up a fight about blobs and proprietary hardware, he
should do that. Talking down to people who genuinely agree about his goals and
are trying to help is really self destructive.

~~~
andrewem
A couple relevant quotes from the justly famous talk "You and Your Research",
by Richard Hamming:

"If you chose to assert your ego in any number of ways, ``I am going to do it
my way,'' you pay a small steady price throughout the whole of your
professional career. And this, over a whole lifetime, adds up to an enormous
amount of needless trouble."

"I am not saying you shouldn't make gestures of reform. I am saying that my
study of able people is that they don't get themselves committed to that kind
of warfare. They play it a little bit and drop it and get on with their work.
"

[http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/YouAndYourResearch.html](http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/YouAndYourResearch.html)

------
jdludlow

      > The OpenBSD project uses a lot of electricity for running the
      > development and build machines.  A number of logistical reasons
      > prevents us from moving the machines to another location which might
      > offer space/power for free, so let's not allow the conversation to go
      > that way.
    
    

I don't understand this comment. If the choice came down to moving versus
shutting down entirely, why is moving an unacceptable answer?

~~~
takeda
I've seen a picture posted on Slashdot how they server rack looks like. There
are many very old machines, I am sure that at least one reason is fear that
they break during transportation.

Found it:
[http://www.openbsd.org/images/rack2009.jpg](http://www.openbsd.org/images/rack2009.jpg)

~~~
sliverstorm
Why not move the machines, and if the Amiga breaks down and they can't find a
replacement, end Amiga support? I mean, that's not a wonderful outcome, but
what would _you_ prefer to see given the following options?

a) Shut down OpenBSD

b) Shut down Amiga support in OpenBSD

I mean, is it even a hard choice?

Besides, if there are many developers who like developing for Amiga, surely
they would be able to find a replacement?

~~~
weland
The Amiga port isn't live. It hasn't been maintained for a while IIRC.

There are two important points that shouldn't be forgotten about aggressively
pushing cross-platform: it retains developers and exposes bugs. There's a
great deal of usefulness behind it, beyond simply making it obvious that the
workstations we get today are shit.

~~~
sliverstorm
Ok, Amiga was just an example I pulled off the top of my head.

I am not suggesting all legacy platforms need to be cut. I'm suggesting that
it's possibly an acceptable risk, and also if a replacement UltraSPARC simply
cannot be sourced, there can't be that many developers working on UltraSPARC
anyway. (Just as an example)

------
orbitur
I feel like it's useful to point that OpenBSD won't say exactly _why_ the bill
is so high, and apparently they don't have open accounting. That bothers me a
bit.

Link to relevant reddit comment thread:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1vakm9/openbsd_develo...](http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1vakm9/openbsd_developers_of_openssh_opensmtpd_pf_we/ceqoqse)

~~~
brohee
What kind of "why" do you expect? There is a pretty large collection of
computers, network equipment, UPS and HVAC stuff. You want a machine per
machine watt usage?

8 year old image of one of the racks, is only grew since...
[http://www.openbsd.org/images/newrack.jpg](http://www.openbsd.org/images/newrack.jpg)

~~~
aiiane
It's a due diligence kind of thing. If you're asking people to make
significant monetary contributions, it makes sense to provide a clear picture
of what you're using that money on.

~~~
mathattack
Exactly. Donors of non-profits like to see where the money is going. If you're
doing an arms length transaction, then it's ok to say "No need to look behind
the curtain, and feel free to buy from someone else."

------
ajkjk
Can someone explain why I would want to support OpenBSD?

I get, from the comments, that: openSSH is great (sure, I can believe it) and
Theo is an asshole but you should compromise and give them money anyway.

I don't get why a parallel operating system ought to continue existing,
especially one that comes from the same legacy codebase as several others. I
also don't get why, if openSSH is so good, the goal isn't to write a new SSH
or fund openSSH separately and drop the rest that can't be supported. Why does
the world needs OpenBSD instead of having the talent focused on making a
smaller number (..Linux) better.

Certainly the answer might be 'because that's what the talent wants to work
on' but that's not a good reason to fund it.

I have also gotten the impression, from limited observation, that there are
real problems in the open source community with too many people doing the same
thing and not working together, and with people being jerks (or just generally
anti-social or at least not-highly-personable) and making it hard to get
involved or care about otherwise important projects. I don't think supporting
Theo, from what I've read here, helps that trend.

I know very little. Can someone fill me in?

~~~
toyg
OpenSSH is one of many offshoots of the OpenBSD project.

OpenBSD being a full OS means that they need tools for everything.
Occasionally, one of those tools will be superior to mainstream alternatives,
thanks to the very strict practices of the project (which really sets the bar
for any other project in the security field) -- OpenSSH being the most famous
example. Even if their tools don't get adopted, a lot of their code and ideas
do, benefitting the whole ecosystem.

Their practices also mean that a lot of the standard GNU userland is regularly
audited with a degree of precision not found in more mainstream projects. The
bugs they find will be fixed by everyone else, again benefitting everyone in
the FLOSS world.

------
pyvpx
all I want to say on this (to me, tiresome) topic is: if you or your company
(especially if that is one and the same!!!!1) have ever used OpenSSH you
should at the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM buy a damn CD. you really ought to donate a
solid hundred in your local currency but if you can't, skip a couple pints
this month and buy a CD.

if you use CARP or OpenBGPd and have never bought a CD, you need to buy two ;p

------
justin66
I get that a lot of people don't care. I even get that some people have an
unrealistic expectation that they should know how every dime of their donation
is going to be accounted for, an expectation that must either not extend to
their other charitable donations or serve as an indicator that they don't give
a lot of money to charities at all.

What I don't get is where people - presumably people involved in information
technology - conclude that $20k/year is a lot of money to spend on
electricity. What utopia of free electricity for all are these people living
in? Can I host a few servers there?

~~~
nknighthb
> _unrealistic expectation that they should know how every dime of their
> donation is going to be accounted for_

This is done routinely by both for-profit and non-profit organizations. In
fact, it's done routinely by individuals like myself.

> _What I don 't get is where people - presumably people involved in
> information technology - conclude that $20k/year is a lot of money to spend
> on electricity._

Where I live, that would pay for the equivalent of 10-11 120-volt 20-amp
circuits running at 80% capacity (per electrical code) 24/7\. Some googling
suggests Calgary rates are similar, which isn't surprising. We both get most
of our power from hydro.

~~~
justin66
> This is done routinely by both for-profit and non-profit organizations.

I wonder if any nonprofit, ever, has given a by-the-watt power accounting of
the sort some of the people here are advocating

> Where I live, that would pay for the equivalent of 10-11 120-volt 20-amp
> circuits running at 80% capacity (per electrical code) 24/7.

aka several racks of equipment. My God, the audacity of OpenBSD developers, to
ask for help powering this stuff!

~~~
nknighthb
> _some of the people here_

Name them, link to the comments, and explain exactly what you mean by "by-the-
watt power accounting", or you're just inventing strawmen.

> _several racks of equipment_

The extent of the evidence we have is that there are two racks:
[http://www.openbsd.org/images/rack2009.jpg](http://www.openbsd.org/images/rack2009.jpg)

There are significant gaps in the racks, and ~16U are occupied by UPSs. The
rest is a mix of fairly modern and legacy gear with a few external HDDs and a
few 1U pieces of network gear. In a real datacenter, it would occupy perhaps
1.5 racks.

My arguments are backed by publicly-available evidence. Yours are backed by
vague assertions by people who assuredly do not need you defending them. If
they wish to convince anyone, they can release further evidence.

> _My God, the audacity of OpenBSD developers, to ask for help powering this
> stuff!_

Oh look, another strawman. Nobody believes requesting aid with an electric
bill is unreasonable. It is the amount being requested that is shocking, and
the extreme secrecy breeds suspicion.

------
SwellJoe
If the price of OpenSSH is keeping all of OpenBSD running, I'll send OpenBSD
some money.

I've never used OpenBSD except to tinker with it, and likely never will. But,
I use OpenSSH hundreds of times a day (both in automated jobs and in the
terminal). It is utterly necessary to me; likely necessary for all of us,
really. So, while a company would have shed the extra weight and focused on
its core product that users love years ago, OpenBSD keeps OpenSSH as a side
effect. I guess I'm OK with that.

Maybe it's even necessary for OpenSSH developers to understand systems level
programming at a level only OS developers can grasp, and maybe OpenSSH
wouldn't be the absolute beast it is today without that kind of influence and
widespread knowledge found in the OpenBSD team. I dunno. Whatever it is, I
support the people and the things they do for me in OpenSSH even if I don't
care much about OpenBSD.

~~~
eruditely
Value of openssh cannot be understated. it is one of the most important pieces
of software ever. Even if Theo's attitudes are distasteful.

------
blhack
They accept bitcoins, here is their donation page, and they're the people that
maintain openSSH, the software that I'd bet ALL of us use every day:

[http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html](http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html)

~~~
cLeEOGPw
Thanks for link, donated some.

------
brasetvik
You may not be using OpenBSD, but the same organization is behind OpenSSH.

Imagine being without ssh, then go donate. :)

~~~
drdaeman
Correction: OpenSSH, not SSH at all.

~~~
mhurron
Name another free ssh implementation.

On every* UNIX and UNIX-like OS ssh is OpenSSH. OpenSSH is why we don't telnet
everywhere anymore.

*- Honestly, I don't know of anything that ships with something that is not OpenSSH.

~~~
brohee
Dropbear, seen for example in OpenWRT.

Not that it's nearly as feature full as OpenSSH, nor as architected around
security (process separation and all). But it's nice when you need a small
sshd.

~~~
yarou
Yup, Dropbear is great for use on embedded devices. I only heard about
Dropbear because once upon a time I needed an SSHd for an old Unix (believe it
was Tru64). Unfortunately, no PRNG shipped by default, so I ended up
symlinking /dev/zero to /dev/random. Thankfully this was not a production
server, but an internal one laying around my house.

------
xradionut
They could probably kill support and power for some of the "dead silicon"
platforms they support. If the CPU hasn't been manufactured in the last decade
or two, why support it?

~~~
hhw
From Theo's comments on the mailing list:

"On a regular basis, we find real and serious bugs which affect all platforms,
but they are incidentally made visible on one of the platforms we run,
following that they are fixed. It is a harsh reality which static and dynamic
analysis tools have not yet resolved. "

"Regarding shutting them down, there other social problems.

Yes, we remove about 10 of the architectures. We'd slowly lose the developers
who like to work on those areas. They also work in other areas, but ... I
suspect they would another BSD that supports them."

~~~
riffraff
which other BSD would that be?

If the answer is "NetBSD", let's consider that the expenses in 2012 for the
NetBSD foundation were $6k [0].

Either they don't support the architectures the same way or they are spending
the money in a smarter way.

[0]
[http://www.netbsd.org/foundation/reports/financial/2012.html](http://www.netbsd.org/foundation/reports/financial/2012.html)

~~~
throwaway2048
They absolutely do not support the architectures in the same way. Most NetBSD
ports are cross compiled and not tested, you are lucky if they boot before
hard locking.

OpenBSD has a strict policy that supported architectures must be self hosted,
tested, and built against HEAD constantly.

------
fidotron
As I commented when this appeared here the other day as:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7059581](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7059581)

The fact this was submitted here and disappeared is kind of indicative of
their problems.

~~~
canistr
Fascinating given the attention that FreeBSD was given (and was able to raise)
when posted on HN about their own funding problems.

~~~
jeremymcanally
Many people find Theo de Raadt intolerable, which unfortunately may be
affecting some of their Friendly Network Effect™ and, by extension, their
fundraising ability (pure speculation, of course).

Supporting them is important given their work on other projects, but it seems
like outright dismissing alternatives to someone cutting them a check (e.g.,
moving the servers, etc.) is also probably limiting the help they're going to
receive.

------
simias
As a long time FreeBSD user I wish the BSDs would find a way to "unite" in a
way, try to put redundant infrastructures in common.

Right now I feel like linux is slowly eating all the market share, if it
continues that way the BSDs will regress back to the lines of Hurd and Plan9.

Competition is always a good thing, even in the OSS world.

~~~
asdasf
>Competition is a good thing, so we should consolidate and have less
competition

That makes very little sense.

~~~
simias
Then re-read my comment within the context of this discussion, which is
OpenBSD being on the verge of bankruptcy.

If I believed all the BSD forks had a chance to live long and prosper on their
own I wouldn't be saying that, but right now it seems to me that none of them
have any real long time chance to remain generic OS on par with Linux (except
possibly FreeBSD but it's not even certain anymore). Linux just moves too fast
these days.

~~~
asdasf
Your comment doesn't make more sense from reading it more often. Saying
"because I don't understand how the BSDs work or their development processes,
I think they should stop existing to prevent them from having to stop
existing" is still nonsensical, no matter how you slice it.

~~~
vidarh
It's nonsensical because you misunderstand it. He is saying he thinks two or
more of them ought to combine efforts in order to prevent _all of them_ from
failing.

~~~
asdasf
Two of them "combining efforts" is removing one. That is no different than one
of them "failing". That is the point. Contrary to armchair OS designer belief,
you can't just say "hey guys, stop working on your project and go work on
someone else's because I don't know what I am talking about and think this
will somehow help something". Go tell linus to start working on mercurial
because you think he should. What is the result of that conversation going to
be?

------
midas007
OpenBSD overall is interesting. The installer alone signals how simple and
elegant is the rest of the OS (take a look at the source [0]). A dozen basic
questions give or take, and one can have a fully-functional box.

Revenue-wise, the best move would be for a shop like iXsystems, Pair or
ByteMark to step up to cover costs. And, any shop that uses OpenSSH on a large
scale should be able to pony up some cash to keep
Open{SSH,BSD,CVS,{NTP,BGP,OSPF,SMTP,IKE}D} alive. For example, it would be
nice to see OpenBSD on Amazon, and AWS might even be willing to fund kernel
changes and more to accomplish that.

Finally: check out this handy script which makes it OpenBSD a whole lot easier
to get started and complete common tasks. [1]

References:

[0] [http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/](http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-
bin/cvsweb/src/)

[1]
[https://gist.github.com/steakknife/6120072/raw/shave](https://gist.github.com/steakknife/6120072/raw/shave)

------
cpprototypes
A little bit off topic, but this reminds me again of how much the web needs an
easy payment system (as easy as in-app purchases in mobile). EFF, wikipedia, I
often see notices or news of things they're doing and think to myself that I
should donate. But I'm usually in the middle of something and stopping
everything to take out my wallet, get the CC, fill out a form, etc. is just
too disruptive. So I try to remind myself to do it later, but then forget.

~~~
vog
Indeed, they should consider looking more at Europe, especially France and
Germany. Their donation page seems to focus too much on US, Canada and seems
to assume the rest of the world is happy with PayPal.

Other organization provide all information for SEPA bank transfers on their
donation page (e.g.
[http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Donate/SEPA](http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Donate/SEPA)),
while the OpenBSD donation page just provides an email address that you should
contact if you want to donate via a simple, plain bank transfer. That's kind
of discouraging.

~~~
tobiasu
Theo has a german bank account right here: [http://www.openbsd.org/bank-
donation.html](http://www.openbsd.org/bank-donation.html)

~~~
vog
I find it confusing that "OpenBSD" and "OpenBSD Foundation" have different
donation sites. Nevertheless, being able to donate directly to these bank
accounts is great!

------
jnazario
i used to have commit but was kicked out (along with a bunch of other people
over the years). i even wrote a book on openbsd. what i see from afar is that
obsd alienated a lot of people with theo's behavior, theo's gone and
surrounded himself with sycophants, and the rest of the world caught up to
them (largely) in features. as a result the userbase has shrunk - why put up
with tirades if you have a secure platform elsewhere - and the features have
remained stale.

theo was a visionary, and together with some other really brilliant folks (not
counting myself as one of them) accomplished what people said no one could.
since then he's been fine tuning that vision but has more or less kept it at
around 2003. the world has changed, theo - and as a result the project -
hasn't. so, the world caught up and users moved on.

------
openbsddesktop
[http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html](http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html)
and [http://openbsd.org/want.html](http://openbsd.org/want.html)

------
kscottz
I would love to see more FOSS projects on GitTip
([https://www.gittip.com/](https://www.gittip.com/)). It would seem to me that
regular small donations that can be budgeted would be more helpful than just
scratching where and when it itches. Giving $1 a week versus $50 at once is so
much more convenient. We as the FOSS community need to own up that writing and
hosting software isn't free, and most of us as highly paid engineers are in a
position to be charitable and help out. My resolution for this year is to give
away 1% of my income to the FOSS community and related charities (EFF,
Wikipedia, Ada Initiative, PSF, etc). I challenge everyone on HackerNews to do
the same. Stop bitching and put your money where your mouth and let's go help
make a better world.

~~~
auvi
Kudos to you!

------
openbsddesktop
VIDEOS

Exploit Mitigation Techniques: an Update After 10 Years (by Theo)
[http://tech.yandex.com/events/ruBSD/2013/talks/103/](http://tech.yandex.com/events/ruBSD/2013/talks/103/)

An OpenBSD talk by Michael Lucas
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXPV3vJF99k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXPV3vJF99k)

~~~
lawnchair_larry
Oh look, it's the talk where Theo blatantly and shamelessly pretends he
invented all of the mitigations that Spender and Pax Team had many years
before anyone at OpenBSD even mentioned it. They pioneered stack randomization
and ASLR? Are you serious?

Aside from OpenSSH, OpenBSD is not security relevant, and hasn't been for
about a decade. So when they don't get the 20k, nothing of value is lost.

~~~
justin66
I just started watching these. About six minutes into the fifty minute talk
Theo says "this wasn't our idea." If he's trying to convince people he
invented that idea he's going about it in a subtle, reverse-psychology way.
(he's not)

------
akulbe
If you use OpenSSH... you benefit from OpenBSD's work, even if you're not an
OpenBSD user.

SSH alone, and all the utilities that use it... have made my work/life SOOOOOO
much easier. That may sound silly, but when you don't have to search for some
3rd-party utility because what you need is built-in... it makes life easier.

I'm donating.

------
kriro
Seems insane that they can't get enough funding given the current security
climate. Think of some of the eccentrics whatever you want but they have
always been fighting the good fight as far as I'm concerned.

No BLOB is a very sane idea for example. I think we'd be further along if that
was enforced stricter by other projects.

------
jlgaddis
Although the priority at this point is certainly paying the electric bill, you
might also consider taking a look at the "Hardware Wanted" page [0] and seeing
if you have anything laying around that one of the developers can use. It's
typically not brand new top-of-the-line gear they're looking for so you might
be surprised.

[0]: [http://openbsd.org/want.html](http://openbsd.org/want.html)

~~~
xradionut
I've scrapped most of these systems years ago. Still have a aviion dual cpu
board somewhere in the shed, probably doesn't work.

------
plainOldText
I'm not an OpenBSD user, but I like their focus on security. And this could be
a positive influence on other platforms. Donated.

------
D9u
I suggest funding a solar power system, especially since the newer panels are
even more efficient for a lower net cost-per-watt/kWH ratio.

Even on cloudy days the new panels will produce energy.

The panels are usually warranted to produce at least a certain (80% on mine)
percentage for a set period of time. (25 years on my 5 + year old PV arrays)
so the other considerations would be a charge controller/charger, a voltage
inverter (from DC to AC) cabling and batteries for storage.

Of all the items, the batteries will be the main recurring expense as they
generally don't last as long as the PV panels. Depending on type of battery,
and how heavily cycled they are, batteries can last for 10 years, with proper
care and use.

A system which maintains a constantly higher amperage will last longer than a
system that has been allowed to be exceedingly discharged. (no less than 80%
of capacity)

In my area electricity sells for $0.49USD per KWH ergo solar is the logical
solution.

The end result is a self reliant system, independent of the issues associated
with distributed power sources, while increasing responsibility for the
consumer.

I find the cost/benefit ratio to be in favor of under-funded consumers,
especially in the long term.

------
soapdog
Just sent 50 USD their way. Its not much but it is as far as I can spend. I
recommend everyone helping. OpenBSD is one of those projects that benefit
everyone not only those using it.

------
jlgaddis
I read through some of this thread last night and was about to throw them a
few bucks. I don't really consider myself an OpenBSD user although I do have a
router here that runs it for pf. Other than that, I haven't touched it in
probably a decade.

I'm glad I read through the whole thread because by the time I got to the end
of it I had changed my mind. In one e-mail to the list, Theo basically said
(in effect) that a donation of $20 wasn't even worth it. (Granted, $20 isn't
much in the grand scheme of things but I feel that it reasonable covers my use
of OpenBSD.)

There are many people who think that Theo is the worst thing for the Project
(because he's such an asshole). OTOH, however, there are many who think that
the Project wouldn't exist if it _weren 't_ for Theo.

~~~
wila
His $20 reply is an answer to the "why don't you sell more merchandise"
question. Where he tries to explain that the merchandise model has a lot of
hidden costs.

As you read the whole thread, I suppose you've also seen this quote?

Nicolai, and others,

I'd like to take the opportunity to thank all of those stepping up to the call
for contributions. Every little bit helps.

See: [http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-
misc&m=138974990608900&w=2](http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-
misc&m=138974990608900&w=2)

Anyways, talk is cheap. Donate helps which as a lot of others here I just did.
Thanks Theo!

------
ThinkBeat
A lot of the discussion so far revolves around whether or not Theo can be
abrasive. Who cares?

I would rather have a non compromising, highly secure operating system
available, with all the source code available for me to see (none of that
binary blob business) than a mediocre operating system that was somewhat
secure from a guy who was really chill.

Funding the OpenBSD project is not a decision about the personality of Theo,
its a decision on the usefulness and and the quality of work that the OpenBSD
community creates.

When I am setting up and configuring and relying on a server with OpenBSD, I
could care less if Theo is eccentric or not. I am in awe of the technical
brilliance of OpenBSD.

And yes I have donated and do donate to the project, and I encourage clients I
have that are running on OpenBSD to do the same.

------
jms703
What will happen to OpenSSH if OpenBSD can't keep the lights on?

~~~
wmf
It will find a new home that's not dying.

~~~
openbsddesktop
Are you perfectly sure that it will represent the same quality then?

~~~
wmf
If I had a choice between, say, donating $10 to OpenBSD of which only $2 goes
towards OpenSSH development and letting Google take over OpenSSH, I'd take my
chances with the latter. I don't see why Linux or OS X users should subsidize
OpenBSD.

~~~
markmark
Yeah, there's plenty of people here saying "hey, you use OpenSSH on x86, you
should donate". But the the reason they need the donations is to pay the power
bills for running things like Vax servers for OpenBSD development on ancient
platforms? Not the most convincing argument.

~~~
_cipher_
And if you and many more were interested in 'why' there are some strange
ports, you'd get your answer. Search and you might be surprised.

It's easy to just say "hur, they be stupid to port on
vax/macppc/sparc/whatever". Do your homework.

~~~
markmark
All of the explanations I've seen are related to encouraging OpenBSD
developers and surfacing bugs in OpenBSD, how does that help the typical x86
OpenSSH user? "We want $20k to help maintain this other thing we do that you
have no interest in."

------
diestl
I wonder if this is a case of OS Darwinism. The fact that it seems to be
hanging on by a thread shows most companies are using and contributing to
Linux. I have never used OpenBSD so not sure what it overs over Linux as a
Unix implementation?

~~~
spinchange
I am also new to OpenBSD but had intended build a server with it per the
advice in the top comment on this HN post from Zed Shaw
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7036661](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7036661)

My understanding is it has a reputation for being very secure, having
thoroughly audited source code, and runs on lots of old and legacy hardware.
It's also renown for having super thorough documentation. (see Zed's comment)

Judging by comments on this post, I think it is more a case of the maintainers
and/or the foundation's management instead of loyalty or adoption of the OS. I
believe HN also runs on OpenBSD too, if I'm not mistaken.

~~~
nzp
> I believe HN also runs on OpenBSD too, if I'm not mistaken.

On FreeBSD.

------
jpessa
what i find interesting (read: suspicious) is how they have seemingly
prioritized and budgeted other things ahead of paying for electricity.

when i make budgeting decisions (whether personal or in business), i start
with the _needs_ before going to the "nice to haves". for openbsd, i can't
help but assume powering their various servers/systems is kiiind of a
priority...

so what i want to know is: \- the over all budget $ amount for 2014 \- what
was the cost of power in 2013 * how did you get to $20k for 2014? \- which
priorities are worth funding over power

my suspicion is that there's plenty of room for give and take here.

------
bhaile
Thanks for linking it here and would be better if it was linked to an article
providing additional details other than electricity costs. Other users have
posted the relevant links.

On another note, the readability of the font was a turn off for me.
Fortunately, there is an option to view it in plain text. adding &q=raw at the
end of the URL. [http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-
misc&m=138972987203440&w=2&q=raw](http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-
misc&m=138972987203440&w=2&q=raw)

------
jlgaddis
I'm excited about buying a cupcake from one of the OpenBSD developers at the
bake sale.

~~~
72deluxe
Haha brightened up my morning, thanks! Very amusing haha

------
mrbill
I can see their point about "We need to keep this VAX around because building
on actual hardware is different from building on emulation", however I'm sure
there's bits of infrastructure, CRTs hooked to KVMs, etc, that could be
replaced with newer and more efficient gear that can help with the power bill.
You don't have to run the ENTIRE place on cast-off donations and stuff out of
a dumpster.

------
ryen
I think OpenBSD should reach out directly to manufacturers of the many
hardware platforms they support (HP, SPARC (now Oracle), etc) and ask for
donations. Of course, only the companies that are still in business.

------
siculars
just donated 0.10 btc. really easy with bitpay integration. would rather not
give paypal or my cc the fees.

------
jason_slack
I used to use OpenBSD on my daily laptop about 8 years ago. Loved it. Worked
for a University and we had a few OpenBSD Servers in my department for web
serving, email, etc. No other departments did.

Why did I stop? Theo was such an ass about questions on "his" mailing lists
that, well, there were friendlier communities out there.

OpenSSH, however, I use a lot so I could donate a few bucks for that.

------
Senkwich
Donated. Hope it helps.

------
Aqueous
Perhaps it would be best to move all non-specialized builds into Amazon or
Rackspace or some automated CI service, and to move the specialized builds to
a differnet, less expensive place, or keep them where they are. At the very
least your electricity costs will go down.

------
bolle
22 seems an appropiate amount. Or whatever your portnumber is for your SSH-
server.

~~~
aaronem
I'm sympathetic, but not enough so to donate $22,000.

------
annnnd
I don't see the point - they should ask for subscriptions, not for donations.
What will they do next month / year, ask again? And again?

~~~
dan1234
They do offer Paypal subscriptions[0] You can donate 10-500 per month, in
USD/CAD/EUR.

[http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html](http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html)

------
jijji
The bigger question is who pays $2000/month for electricity for a server?

~~~
jms703
Can we get them some solar panels?

~~~
maerF0x0
You'd need something like a 10KW system? 2396 hrs sunshine in calgary. They
use something like 24MWhrs .. is my maths working? Plus a massive battery
system to get through the night, ... plus account for shorter sunlight in the
winter.. Yup, not helpful :P

------
elwesties
This may be a silly question but could they virtualise the process on EC2?

~~~
voltagex_
They're running on so many esoteric architectures it's not really viable.

------
mariuolo
What about emulators?

------
SilverSurfer972
I would love to donate some Litecoin

------
ffrryuu
The one with the gold makes all the rules.

------
blahbl4hblahtoo
I donated 50 bucks. These guys have been awesome for a long time. Sorry it
took me this long to donate.

EDIT: Here's the thing. I don't directly use OpenBSD, but they have influenced
more than just UNIX for a long time.

