
Professional Dress Code Tips - eitohaoeth
http://www.dba-oracle.com/dress_code.htm
======
kabdib
This works both ways.

When I was at Apple, we had a consultant who insisted on coming into work
dressed like a professional consultant. The rest of us were in T-shirts,
shorts and jeans, sandals or tennis shoes or hiking boots, a typical hacker
crowd.

She wasn't getting much traction. It was awkward to have a "suit" in meetings,
even though we knew she was an excellent engineer. A couple of us suggested
that it might help for her to dress down. Finally our director (a woman, if it
matters) took her aside and had a chat. A few days later the consultant
started coming into work in jeans / t-shirt and so forth, and her interactions
with us went a lot better.

The hacker in me wants to feel vindicated. But really it just shows how
shallow we can be.

In any event, I am never, ever going to wear a tie or a suit to work.

~~~
stephengillie
I've received significant social friction just trying to wear wool pants and a
button shirt with a collar, to an office job. Seattle is an incredibly casual
city/region. Coworkers at a major ISP ridiculed me so hard I had to go home
and change into a t-shirt and jeans. After taking a contract at another very
large company, I was again ridiculed for my outfit. I'm not even wearing a tie
- just the coat and pants seem to offend people.

~~~
walrus01
> Seattle

Things are so casual here that I know an engineer who never wears socks, and
wears Birkenstocks through the winter.

> Major ISP

The people with 'enable' on the core routers for the largest ASNs in the
Vancouver-Seattle-Portland region are also the ones most likely to show up to
work in an old ratty NANOG t-shirt and cargo shorts. If they're not working
100% remote.

------
raincom
Burleson had a good reputation before 2004. His technical reputation in the
oracle dba world got ruined by other well know tuning experts in the field.

There are reports that he doesn't pay his consultants.

[https://donburlesonfraud.wordpress.com/](https://donburlesonfraud.wordpress.com/)

[https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/don-burleson-
burleson-c...](https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/don-burleson-burleson-
consulting/kittrell-north-carolina-27544/don-burleson-burleson-consulting-don-
burleson-avoid-this-scammer-at-all-costs-kittrel-517594)

[http://oracledoug.com/serendipity/index.php?/archives/1303-W...](http://oracledoug.com/serendipity/index.php?/archives/1303-Why-
you-cant-just-say-Stop-feeding-the-troll-....html)

Burleson issuing DMCA notices:
[https://hoopercharles.wordpress.com/2011/02/11/on-the-
topic-...](https://hoopercharles.wordpress.com/2011/02/11/on-the-topic-of-
copyright/)

I consider a lot of non-technical stuff on his site to be just funny.

Look at this doe bell from one of his sites: [http://www.rampant-
books.com/product_deer_butt_doorbell.htm](http://www.rampant-
books.com/product_deer_butt_doorbell.htm) [http://www.dba-
oracle.com/redneck.htm](http://www.dba-oracle.com/redneck.htm)

~~~
eitohaoeth
"Understanding the redneck philosophy..."

o...m...g... do I read it now or wait and read it later? Which will be
funnier?

------
wilkystyle
This dress code provides great insight into the culture/personality of BC (and
why I would never want to work there), particularly this part:

> If you have been working all night and have an early morning meeting, you
> can use an anti-inflammatory hemorrhoid cream (e.g. Preparation H) to
> quickly shrink those unsightly puffy bags under your eyes.

~~~
jjeaff
They must be joking... right?

~~~
myhf
It's unusual to use topical anti-inflammatories in the US, but in other
countries they are common and available with non-hemorrhoid branding.

------
blinkingled
Everything about this is so overdone for 2018. I understand you should be a
bit on the conservative side and not do outright stupid things (flip flops for
e.g.) but this is just too much.

(I had a hardcore Oracle guy once walk in when I was at a Bank - there was a
product issue nobody was able to solve. This person had a pony tail, white
t-shirt, blue jeans and sports shoes. Charged a ton of money for his 3 days
and by the time he was gone things were measurably better off. Nobody was
minding his attire - and it was 8 years ago.)

~~~
_0nac
Oddly enough, in stuffy industries not adhering to the dress code is a strong
social signal that you're good enough to be able to flaunt it.

I used to work in telecoms consulting, which is fairly buttoned up: usually
dress shirts, slacks and nice shoes, although us engineers were permitted to
dispose of the tie and open the top button. But _the_ best engineer in my
company -- the guy who'd be flown in by private jet when needed because the
billing systems were dropping $1m/hour on the floor -- maintained a steady
uniform of ripped jeans, ratty T-shirts and permanent 3-day stubble, and the
clients would always fall over themselves with gratefulness when he showed up.
Not because of what he wore, of course, but because he was "the real deal" and
very good at _actually_ fixing problems, instead of talking about them.

~~~
cperciva
_Oddly enough, in stuffy industries not adhering to the dress code is a strong
social signal that you 're good enough to be able to flaunt it._

This is classic countersignalling behaviour: By refusing to pay the cost
(financial, time, and comfort) of dressing up, you're communicating that
you're not afraid of being mistaken for an interloper.

 _permanent 3-day stubble_

I really want to know how to do this. My stubble goes from 0-day to 1-day to
2-day to 3-day and then back to 0-day...

~~~
pheldagryph
> > permanent 3-day stubble

> I really want to know how to do this. My stubble goes from 0-day to 1-day to
> 2-day to 3-day and then back to 0-day...

I achieve variable-length shaven-stubble with "Amazon: Panasonic Beard and
Mustache Trimmer and Hair Clipper for Men". Once-over with the main clipper
(sans attachment) is like a 2/3 day (but it looks a little uneven), and then
the mustache trimmer to achieve a 1/2-day.

Avoiding zero-days is a priority of mine, also, so I felt compelled to share.
Good luck!

~~~
nscalf
To ride on this, I get pretty consistent results similar to this with hair
clippers from Walmart and the smallest attachment they come with. I didn't
even really think about it, but I'll probably get a "Beard and Mustache
Trimmer" as my next one.

If you're in an urgent need for a 3-day beard, a trip to Walmart and 3 days
will do it.

------
eric_b
As someone who wears jeans and t-shirts to work almost exclusively, this comes
off as old fashioned and probably not terribly topical anymore.

That said, he's not entirely wrong. What you wear absolutely affects how other
people perceive, treat, and judge you (rightly or wrongly). Good to always be
mindful of what your appearance says to other people, whether you care what
they think or not.

~~~
flukus
What many don't realize is that i goes both ways. They might be dressed nicer
than us, but I'm going to assume they're sleazy salesmen like just about
everyone else that still wears a suit. I'll assume that no one half way
competent works at the company, because we work in a competitive industry and
the best people have options to work in better environments.

I'm sure most of us here have worked with enough useless consultancies to know
that there is no correlation between dress and ability. It's not even a class
symbol anymore, the biggest group of people that wear suits to work are in
retail these days.

~~~
newfoundglory
So you know there's no correction between dress and ability but you're going
to assume that people who wear suits are bad at their job? Seems like a poorly
supported assumption.

~~~
flukus
You're right, correlation was not the right word to use, perhaps "positive
correlation" would have fit better?.

I have found a correlation between dress code and competence, places that
focus on the former can't afford to be picky with the latter in such a
competitive market. The more talented can usually get paid just as well at
more relaxed companies.

------
nihonde
Dress codes are just a coded way of communicating that you conform to a
particular social group’s norms. On Wall Street, it’s Zenga and Rolex. In Palo
Alto, it’s T-shirts and Allbirds. In Tokyo, it’s gaucho pants and beanies. In
stuffy old consulting companies, it’s stuffy “business” garbs from the 1990s.
In other words, it’s just local fashion.

------
brianwawok
I love Burleson and his small-horses, I cannot believe he made hacker news ;)

Guy is really old school, raises mini horses for fun, and literally shows up
in Google for any Oracle error ever. He is long tail SEO before there was such
a thing...

~~~
eitohaoeth
I refer to him only as 'Cowboy'. Everyone I work with knows who I mean.

~~~
mc32
Just as cool if he were called 'Tex' (be he from there or not).

------
SmellTheGlove
I suddenly live in a world where I can't tell whether or not this is satire.
And I was a consultant!

------
smacktoward
Reminds me of Edward "Tiger Mike" Davis and his infamous Tiger Oil memos:
[http://www.lettersofnote.com/2010/08/tiger-oil-
memos.html](http://www.lettersofnote.com/2010/08/tiger-oil-memos.html)

 _> I am not fond of hippies, long-hairs, dope fiends or alcoholics. I suggest
each and every person in a supervisory category (from driller up to me)
eliminate these people._

 _> Anyone who lets their hair grow below their ears to where I can't see
their ears means they don't wash. If they don't wash, they stink, and if they
stink, I don't want the son-of-a-bitch around me._

 _> Do not speak to me when you see me. If I want to to speak to you, I will
do so. I want to save my throat. I don't want to ruin it by saying hello to
all of you sons-of-bitches._

 _> DO YOUR JOBS AND KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!_

------
packetized
This dress code, much like “Oracle consulting”, has gone out of style.

~~~
tensor
Not true, it's just changed. Now you are expected to come to work sandals
jeans and a t-shirt. If you have the gall to wear a button up and kakis, oh
the horror! I've personally been judged for "dressing up" in inexpensive
button ups and kakis. So I ended up dressing down.

~~~
jopejosh
Judged by those wish you to lower yourself to their poor standards to ensure
you don't elevate yourself to a position higher than theirs.

~~~
DoreenMichele
Actually, if you study the history of clothing (etc) , that isn't what it is
about at all.

It is a signalling of a maverick industry so powerful it can succeed without
the approval or gatekeeping of stuffy banks etc. It is a huge middle finger to
The Establishment.

Think of how YC began with the idea of two guys in a cheap apartment seeking
to be _ramen profitable._ I will suggest it is no coincidence that I have read
that Paul Graham is fond of (iirc) cargo shorts and sandals. It's a hugely
self entitled position that his personal comfort matters vastly more than the
opinions of gatekeepers.

There are good psychological reasons for enforcing it as an industrywide
standard. You don't want people eroding that mindset of the industry or
altering that social contract.

~~~
dsacco
_> It is a signalling of a maverick industry so powerful it can succeed
without the approval or gatekeeping of stuffy banks etc. It is a huge middle
finger to The Establishment._

 _> There are good psychological reasons for enforcing it as an industrywide
standard. You don't want people eroding that mindset of the industry or
altering that social contract._

If you dig into these two paragraphs a bit, you’ll see they’re incompatible.
You’re just trading one establishment for a new one, which is evidently just a
susceptible to gatekeeping and biases as the old one.

~~~
DoreenMichele
Well, that's how overthrowing the old order and establishing a new one works.
Cargo shorts and sandals become the new uniform.

It still refuses to curry favor with the old establishment.

------
gcmac
I used to laugh at stuff like this, then at orientation the place I was
working with said "The best way to show your personality is through your
socks." I noped right out of there.

------
humanrebar
I've wondered why "tropical attire" hasn't caught on in the American South and
Southwest. In the summers especially it is consistently hotter and more humid
than most tropical locations. If anything, multi-layered wool-and-leather
getup is inappropriate for the climate.

If plastic melts in your car in the parking lot, maybe requiring people to
wear a coat or jacket is a bit much.

------
tptacek
"Skirt suit. No pants, ever." These people sound awesome.

~~~
koolba
Make sure you scroll to the bottom to see the pic of “Burleson home office”
attire.

------
meritt
Before you get out your pitchforks, this page is from 2001. He's made updates
and added email commentary since then but it's reflective of a very different
age from someone (Don Burleson) who was very much considered "old fashioned"
back then too.

------
mc32
It seems excessive by today's US standards (but not Japan or some other
places) but as long as it's not over the top and or excessive for the
position, and they are up front about it, I see no problem with it.

I mean, why shouldn't a Metal band, for example, require their roadies to wear
leather and spikes or spandex and hairspray if that's their thing.

------
killjoywashere
I do hope the hackers with business aspirations (entree prawn yuers? something
like that?) can see this as equivalent to a vulnerability write-up. Send a
packet wrapped in fine wool, and you can get past _all_ firewalls, without
ever touching a keyboard! Like goddamn magic!

------
philwelch
Interesting reference to the bushy eyebrows of the legendary Admiral Zumwalt:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmo_Zumwalt](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmo_Zumwalt)

Zumwalt, as Chief of Naval Operations, was responsible for the roughly ten-
year span when sailors were allowed to wear beards, outraging the naval
counterparts of Mr. Burleson here: [https://news.usni.org/2014/10/23/brief-
history-grooming-u-s-...](https://news.usni.org/2014/10/23/brief-history-
grooming-u-s-navy)

------
defen
Imagine how much money Facebook or Google would have been worth if they'd had
a dress code like this.

------
jgautier1
Hahaha the dress code is nothing compared to this [http://www.dba-
oracle.com/t_make_deer_butt_alien.htm](http://www.dba-
oracle.com/t_make_deer_butt_alien.htm) and [http://www.dba-
oracle.com/redneck.htm](http://www.dba-oracle.com/redneck.htm)

------
aeriklawson
I'm really amused / shocked by the amount of people here that feel "awkward"
or "bothered" in meetings with someone dressed in business casual versus jeans
and a t shirt.

I work at a startup in NYC and most of us are dressed very casually, but a few
people do dress up / more nicely (especially those that used to work in
finance and at those at the C-level). You know how much that bothers people at
my company? Not at all. I've never heard it brought up once.

The clothes someone is wearing _barely_ enters my mind at all when I'm
conversing / working with them. If the way someone dresses is bothering you
and your coworkers to the point of social friction, I seriously suggest you
look inwards to see what the problem is.

The irony/hypocrisy in SV is too much to handle sometimes.

------
acconrad
You're better off going to a place like styleforum.net to learn how to dress
well over this archaic nonsense.

------
eitohaoeth
"Burberry accessories - Burberry hats are for Chavs"

------
jackvalentine
I love how their second section is all about the status of the law. Very nice
and heavy handed.

~~~
ineedasername
For me that screamed, "I've been sued for this because I was an ass about it
but won because technically being an ass, by itself, isn't illegal"

------
buttcoinslol
While the rules are stodgy, they generally line up with mainstream men's
business fashion guidelines. Charcoal or navy suits, pressed white shirts,
conservative ties, a pair of captoe oxfords (Allen Edmonds or better, black
and/or brown)

------
ghaff
I agree that this comes across as pretty old-fashioned although many of my
sales compatriots routinely dress more conservatively than I do these days.
The dress codes for a consulting company I worked for 15 years years ago were
fairly conservative but not this conservative.

For what I do, even traditional business casual starts to look more like being
a "suit" than I prefer.

[ADDED: As someone else said, do read to the bottom. This is a commentary on
what clients are looking for.]

------
ineedasername
Huh, I searched on Burleson, curious about this anachronistic throwback, but
it didn't take long to see accusation of fraud committed against both
employees and clients. Looks like they declared bankruptcy a few years back
too [0]

[0]
[http://bankrupt.com/misc/nceb13-01106.pdf](http://bankrupt.com/misc/nceb13-01106.pdf)

------
bllguo
I haven't seen such an ugly website in a while. I'd give that much more weight
than physical appearance

------
cafard
Burleson seems to be longer on the SEO than the DBA, based on what I
occasionally see when Googling for Oracle stuff.

It has been a while since we had consultants underfoot at the office, and I
don't remember them as being quite that dressed up.

------
csours
This is satire, right? It has to be satire. Actually maybe just the pictures.

------
oliv__
Love that comment section... I wish all comment sections were like this today

------
markbnj
Wait... this is real? Come on, this isn't real. Is it?

------
xtiansimon
He has a fix for puffy eyes, but what about sweating?

~~~
AstralStorm
Unfortunately aluminium based antiperspirants have side effects. Other are not
efficacious.

But you can often take a shower before important meeting and that is a good
idea regardless of clothing.

Just think about it - a paid shower... with consultant rates.

------
sunebeck
I read this as satire.

------
legohead
I liked the stories of Zuckerberg attending investor meetings in his hoodie.
Sad to see him in full suit attire these days.

~~~
buttcoinslol
Now he is dressing for the job he wants to have.

~~~
voxadam
Congressmen?

~~~
RepressedEmu
President/God-Emperor

------
ACow_Adonis
While I appreciate and agree with the point that people judge others by their
looks, I'm just going to put this out there:

When you socially optimise for superficial appearance, you'll both work for
clients who value superficial appearance and attract employees who optimise
for superficial appearance.

Not a day goes by that I don't thank god I don't have to work for a
consultancy, though I do often dread that I'll have some brought in and have
to deal with the particular kind of moron employees they attract.

/superficial generalisation

