
In Brazil, Amazon Protections Are Slashed and Forests Fall - pseudolus
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/28/world/americas/brazil-deforestation-amazon-bolsonaro.html
======
zelphirkalt
This happens when other nations and unions stand by idly instead of
immediately threaten sanctions against insane people like Bolsonaro. There
needs to be so much pressure on the country, that they riot against people
like him and rid themselves of people like him. The moment this guy talked
about cutting down trees, other nations should have immediately threatened
with heavy sanctions, to stop this thread right away.

~~~
Dumblydorr
Hard for USA to pressure with a nationalist right winger in power, same with
Britain and many EU countries. So who exactly has the political will and clout
to do anything?

~~~
devoply
It's bullshit anyway. I have this idea that Bezos should use his money from
Amazon to buy a large chunk of the Amazon rain forest. I am sure right winger
is happy to sell the land for slightly above the price of wood on it.

~~~
hanniabu
That's nice in theory, but unless there's surveillance it won't help. They'll
ravage the land anyways if there's nobody there to protect it

~~~
devoply
Hello Amazon drones?

~~~
hanniabu
Not sure you're aware of how large and remote the Amazon is. Even if the drone
battery life was sustainable, you'd still need to get physical enforcement to
the location.

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ablation
We seem determined to undermine all attempts to save ourselves. It makes me
very depressed sometimes, when striving to be better as an individual, to see
things like this happening. I truly do worry we don’t have a lot of time left.

~~~
pluc
Just switch your allegiance to the Planet instead of the Race.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Puts you at odds with humanity unfortunately.

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andrenth
The other day there was a thread on HN where most people agreed that Amazon
should pay France more taxes because even though it’s an internet business, it
benefits from things done by the French government.

Maybe developed countries should start paying a tax to Brazil and other Amazon
forest countries so that they can preserve it. After all, most didn’t do a
good job preserving their own forests, so demanding underdeveloped countries
to do it is somewhat hypocritical.

~~~
hrdwdmrbl
This ^^! Most people do not appreciate what truly being poor is like. If the
choice is development or preserving the rainforest, Brazilians deserve the
right to choose for themselves

~~~
addicted
Except destroying the rain forests is gonna do absolutely nothing to help the
Brazilian poor.

So I’m not sure what being truly poor has anything to do with this. This will
be almost entirely about displacing the poor, poisoning their water, and
rewarding corrupt cronies.

~~~
nfrbc
Indeed. It's probably going to be even worse for the poor in the affected area
from now on.

Illegal wood extraction doesn't only kill trees. Those criminals have
historically killed citizens in order to prevent being caught.

------
nfrbc
Bolsonaro is only doing that in order to spite the left.

If leftists took the public position of wanting to destroy the Amazon he would
be doing everything in his power to preserve it.

That's the world we live in today.

------
Keyframe
_“The Amazon is ours, not yours,” he told a European journalist._

I wonder if there's a scenario somewhere, already worked out, where this is
not true anymore. A military takeover of the amazon basin.

~~~
nfrbc
It won't happen because Bolsonaro is too cozy with the US government, both
have the same anti-leftist "own them libs" political leaning.

Who's going to do it? Europe? Asia?

~~~
Keyframe
It's an amusing thought experiment. China? They seem to be focusing on the
topic of environment.

~~~
Bayart
China's burning more coal by the day.

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zaro
It's a pity things are going in that direction. But i don't think we are in
position to judge the Brazilians over this.

I watched a short documentary about this issue recently on Youtube, and the
journalists went to some really remote area and spoke with the mayor of town
there. The guy was big supporter of Bolsonaro and he said something that is
actually very true. He said US and Europe have no right to tell Brazil what to
do with it's natural resources, because they have already used theirs to
industrialise and develop and now want to prevent Brazil from doing so.

And as unpleasant as it sounds he is right. People in the western world can
wipe their buts with toilet paper made from virgin pulp, but Brazil and other
poor countries should hold should preserve the lungs of the planet.

~~~
vasco
That is the same argument Poland throws at Germany to justify the huge amounts
of coal it uses and has little plans to reduce. At some point one has to ask
at what cost the growth is justifiable and if dumping the same efforts into
renewable technology isn't going to pay more dividends in the future when the
world has moved on

~~~
Tade0
Polish person here.

Actually that argument was only ever used to make the miners - a very powerful
group in Poland - vote for whichever political party was in charge at the
moment.

The coal industry overall is not a source of growth, but a liability, costing
the taxpayers around €2bln annually.

A looming energy crisis and increasing costs of emissions, finally made the
current government give in, put their cronies where they wanted them and
approve a lot of new offshore wind investments + create a subsidy program for
solar power to the tune of €230mln.

I talked with some people from Silesia and even the miners see the writing on
the wall - currently 20% of the coal used in Poland is imported, so miners as
a group don't have as much leverage as they used to.

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forinti
Brazil's southeast (which includes São Paulo - the most industrialised state
and with 40 million people) gets humidity from the Amazon. They have had water
shortages these last few years.

This government has given power to the greediest and most short-sighted
elements of Brazilian society. They have always played a big role, but they
now run unbridled and unashamed.

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ed_dantes99
What if rich countries stop buying things that cause deforestation such as
meat and wood? (now you throw me through the window).

When I read that foreigners (specially Europeans) are concerned about Amazon I
simply laugh. They've been exploiting Brazilian's (and other colonies as well)
natural resources since ever! They've got rich as hell by just doing that!!
But now they are superior and know exactly what the world needs. Same old
story.

------
addicted
Apparently it’s not just the forests that are an obstacle to growth.

[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/28/amazon-gold-
mi...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/28/amazon-gold-miners-
invade-indigenous-village-brazil-leader-killed)

------
lipe66
There are no protections being slashed. this is totaly and complete BS. France
is attacking Brasil because of the impact in a comer ial agreement. Why you
don't go take care of your lives instead of gossiping in the web?

~~~
dang
If an article is wrong and you have correct information, you're welcome to
provide it, but please don't do it by calling names. Do it by neutrally
stating facts. This will do a much better job of refuting the wrong article.
Taking the threads further into flamewar helps nothing, and damages this
place.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

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chewbacha
Things like this strike fear in my heart and make me feel helpless to prevent
our species from dismantling our ecosystem until it can no longer support us.

~~~
Dumblydorr
We are in the thick of it. Shame that politics moves so slowly in so many
countries, and that money and economics comes above long term ecosystem
health. I think if we recognized we are merely a species from that ecosystem,
part of its food chain, maybe we would react better.

Reminds me of a friend who has this pet desire that 1/2 of all humans should
vanish, this was before Thanos too. He just hates what humans do and wants
less of them.

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woliveirajr
Everytime there are news about Brazil the threads get a simple political view
with shallow arguments.

I'm yet to see an article from nytimes and so on where they begin with basic
and correct information instead of out-of-the-pocket made up numbers. Because
numbers, in reality, are very different from this perspective that it's
written. There isn't these increase in forests falling as this article
implies.

~~~
Dumblydorr
Wow, pot calling the kettle black. You provided zero numbers yourself.

~~~
woliveirajr
Yes, because I'm not discussing this article, I'm pointing that no one else
is. A meta comment, if you prefer.

