
Ask YC: Masters in CS? Or no? - maneesh
Hey guys,<p>I'm currently an undergrad student at Stanford University, and I'm wondering if I should pursue a 1 years masters program to get a Masters in CS. Here's the lowdown: I've done a lot of programming before---in fact, I've written four books on programming (two were international bestsellers), sold a facebook application to Kaplan Inc, and have developed for some hot start ups in Silicon Valley. I'm studying abroad, and I was planning to stay abroad until next April, but if I want to pursue the masters program I will need to come home to start working on it.<p>My future goal is to start a freelancing company to develop enterprise software--my first project is this summer in Italy. So, my question is, based on the cost ($45,000 for a year--after TAing, it should be closer to $15,000) is it worth it to pursue a masters degree at Stanford? Will a master's open up any doors that wouldn't be open for a Stanford grad with a good resume?<p>Thanks!<p>-Maneesh Sethi
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akeefer
I did the co-term at Stanford about 6 years ago, though my goal at the time
wasn't to go start a company or freelance right away. I'm personally glad I
did it, and not because of any resume-padding or salary-boosting (I already
had a job at a startup where I worked part-time while I did the co-term) but
simply because it was a great opportunity to learn a lot of stuff. I knew that
if I didn't do it right away, I'd probably never really want to go back, and
I'd also never have another chance to do it in just one year.

There are just a lot of things that are harder to learn on your own. Want to
learn SQL, OpenGL, TCP programming? Read some web pages or some books; you
don't need a class for that stuff. Want to learn how to write your own
database, rendering engine, network stack, compiler, or filesystem? Take a
class. Especially if your goal is write enterprise software, which inherently
involves building large, complex systems, some of those things will come in
handy, if only by exposing you to new ways of thinking. My experience has
always been that the practical stuff is easy enough to pick up on your own,
but the theory is always harder. It can be done, you'll just learn it better
and faster from a good professor.

If you've already taken all the 200 or 300-level courses in CS at Stanford
that you want to take, I don't think you'll get much out of the MS. If there
are a lot of those courses that you haven't taken and that still interest you,
it's worth doing. If it's just a pure business play it's not worth it.

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mechanical_fish
_Will a master's open up any doors that wouldn't be open for a Stanford grad
with a good resume?_

Wait and see.

In your case, I'm extremely doubtful that a master's will make any difference
whatsoever. And getting one now is premature optimization. Wait until you find
yourself trying to get a specific kind of job, but failing, because the jobs
are being snapped up by people with advanced degrees. Then get a master's. It
only takes a year.

I bet you'll wait a long time before that happens.

And why play the go-back-to-school-for-free card now? It's valuable. Keep it
in your pocket for a while. You've _been_ in school recently, at _Stanford_
for god's sake -- you've already got a lot of recent contacts from your school
days, and you're _already in_ a startup hub. So, wait. After you spend a few
years in industry, and find yourself stuck in a rut, you'll discover that it's
wonderful to have a ready-made excuse to take a year off, go back to school,
and make a whole new set of friends and professional contacts. You might even
have a better idea of what you want to study, and where, and with whom.

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mattrepl
A MS usually requires about 30 credit hours, or 10 courses. Do these
accelerated MS programs have the same requirements?

Sounds like earning the degree now may shorten the program's duration.

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maximilian
An MSc and a Masters of CS are slightly different. Basically a Masters of CS
is a masters lite. 2/3 the coursework with no thesis. Its a whole different
bag.

I'm doing a masters in applied math, and not having to do a thesis would sorta
ruin the whole super independent part of it. I'm looking forward to doing cool
research that I want to do. It will probably suck towards the end when I'm
finishing the details of my thesis, but right now its exciting to dream of
things to research.

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adamsmith
I'd advise against getting a master's degree for someone who already has an
impressive resume and knows what they want to do next.

I dropped out of my master's program after getting accepted into YC. It was a
no brainer; I flew back to Boston and met with my adviser the same day to tell
him I was dropping out. I had already published with him so we were good
friends.

With few exceptions, people in the tech industry rarely care about graduate
degrees.

Beware of opportunity cost when reading posts saying it's only one year, or
you can make $x more / year with a master's degree. It sounds like you're
going to learn much more in the first year of your venture than you would in
school.

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donal
The opportunity to bang it out in one year is something that shouldn't be
passed up lightly. Going back after being out for a while is hard.

I'm getting my masters now (graduated undergrad in 2003). It is difficult, but
then I'm working and going to school.

The one thing going for taking time off and going back is that you are
amazingly focused because you know why you are there, but then if you are
graduating from Stanford and considering a MS, then I don't think that is
really a problem for you.

I don't think the MS for you would be as much about career options as it would
be being able to get even more in depth with subjects in a way that you really
don't get much opportunity to do later in life. At least for me it became
become fluent enough in subject n+1 to do task x+1. The queue only gets longer
and I never have managed to go back to any one thing that has interested me.

~~~
RK
_The one thing going for taking time off and going back is that you are
amazingly focused because you know why you are there, but then if you are
graduating from Stanford and considering a MS, then I don't think that is
really a problem for you._

The OP is the author of a book called "How to Succeed As A Lazy Student" :)

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diego
Besides the monetary cost, you'd be investing a year of your life. When faced
with a similar situation, I went for it not so much because of the future
earnings potential but because I thought it would be a valuable life
experience (which it was, and I'm happy I did it).

If you see it purely as an investment, you have to figure out what else you
could be doing in the meantime that would give you the same return, both
financially and emotionally.

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gexla
As a freelancer you will rarely (if ever) be asked about your educational
experience. If you were for some reason, then a bachelor's degree would
probably suffice. If you are good at what you do, then you will have high
enough demand for your work that you can pick the work you do. If a potential
client makes unreasonable demands, then you simply go with with next client in
line.

The world moves fast. If you have an idea about a certain niche for enterprise
software then right now is probably better than a year from now. The earlier
you can break into a market the better.

A degree is more important for working for others. You need that degree to get
past the HR gatekeeper. In the freelance world, things are different. I don't
even have an undergrad degree and I have had no shortage of freelance work.

Once you go freelance, you will have a hard time convincing yourself to go
back to working for someone else. Leave the grad degrees to the academics. For
hackers, grad degrees take us out of the real world for too long.

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bluelu
A masters degree is always good when you are selling yourself to other people.
If it only takes you one more year, I would simply do it.

~~~
goodkarma
You can write a lot of code in a year. If what you want to do is write code.
(And he does.)

~~~
jules
How much less code will he be able to write if he gets a masters degree?

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menloparkbum
If you'd want to eventually work abroad, I'd go for it. I don't know about
Italy, but many countries have points-based immigration systems and having a
master's degree from Stanford gives you a significant amount of extra points.

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donw
Posts like this make me wish I had worked harder in school. Which is why I'm
back and getting my MS -- doing things _right_ this time. _grin_

In your case, you need to ask yourself if another year in school is what you
want or need; nobody here can answer that for you. A Master's will open new
doors, but at the opportunity cost of taking time away from other projects
that may be more beneficial.

~~~
tptacek
What doors would those be?

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ampradhan
IMHO the purpose of MS should not be to find a better job or to get a raise.
You have already proven that you are an Entrepreneur therefore it would not be
too difficult for you to start where you left off after a year. You can never
go wrong with education and investing a year of your time will only make you a
better decision maker.

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fogus
It sounds to me that you are already 1 (perhaps 3) steps ahead of the game. A
graduate degree from Stanford will always "look good" on the resume, but I
wonder what it will do toward further your freelancing goal. One thing to keep
in mind, and all caveats apply, but in my experience I have found that many
organizations/clients view higher level degrees as a "sign" (valid or not
matters little IMO) that you are prime leadership material. This may be
beneficial in winning contracts. At the same time it may make you appear over-
qualified (less likely I would say). It's a delicate balance.

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ivankirigin
Masters coursework isn't worth it across the board. Some areas are too
theoretical for what Masters students will want to do.

I got a more directed MS in Robotics, and am very glad I did. I think it helps
to have a niche. You can do the exact same work I did for my robotics degree
in a general CS degree - so my advice is to pick an area of focus, and work on
building something interesting.

You shouldn't work on many projects. Take the opportunity to build up a single
real system for 2 years.

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goodkarma
If your goal is to developer enterprise software, and you already have your
first project (i.e. this summer in Italy), what do you need the Masters degree
for?

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abless
What does he need his BA for? Not for what he is doing ATM anyway.

~~~
goodkarma
I agree, but that is in the past. He's asking about the future.

I don't work in the field I got my degree in. But I still enjoyed the
experience.. :)

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dasmith2
I'm not sure about what a masters will do for your prospects, but I'm getting
one and I LOVE it. So I say do it if you think you'll enjoy it.

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osipov
>My future goal is to start a freelancing company to develop enterprise
software

Based on some interviewing I've done in a corporate setting, Masters is often
looked at as a trade off for lack of work experience. In your case it doesn't
seem like that would be an issue.

Whether or not you have a Ph.D. will matter more for your career long term,
than whether you have a BS/MS.

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sjunkin
If you are starting a company why not pursue an MBA, sounds like you wont get
much more out of the mscs degree.

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tx
That's quite pedestrian and bottom-line oriented approach to life. Good luck
crossing the finish line.

