
Mac Pro - salimmadjd
http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/
======
ansimionescu
I love watching people moan about this yet unreleased product.

I think the new Mac Pro episode will resemble the iPad one - lots of "ohemgee
it's like just a bigger ipod, lol, how stupid do they think we are, kthx?"
reactions, when in fact this product will probably push a new paradigm shift
in the way workstations are built i.e. moving away from the plastic pieces of
shit ubiquitously sold now. Seriously, I dare you to look around a regular "PC
customization" website e.g. [1]. Apart from Razer and maybe Alienware nobody
has even tried to really innovate the workstation landscape. I remember when I
was building one of my first desktops with my dad - _20 years ago_.

A final thought: Apple has a million flaws (mostly software and systems, grr),
but they didn't get where they are for being stupid or for not understanding
the market, so at least give them some fucking credit.

[1] [http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/view/Vortex-500-gaming-
pc/](http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/view/Vortex-500-gaming-pc/)

~~~
mojuba
Curiously, my first association was "jet engine", was amused to learn that to
many it's a trash can.

Am I the only one whose breath was taken away by this new design? Power
desktop seriously revisited for the first time since the 80's, anyone?

~~~
Shivetya
nah, dyson fans have used similar bases for years.

I kid, I kid.

Honestly though I do not care for an integrated "pro" machine. This is form
over function. Fail a component and its off to the shop. Combined with, if I
want to upgrade them I need to replace the unit.

If they are going to integrate everything then they need to drop the price.
Integration implies lower costs as having all the support needed to drive user
added cards and internal drives can be done away with.

Plus its not like I want to have an octopus of cables on my desk and moving
storage to all external does that.

Benefits, perhaps driving the thunderbolt prices down and having new and
interesting devices to connect to the system.

In the end integration means commodity, just expensive. Can't wait to see what
they want for it, I figure on three thousand minimum, which would be a third
too much for something so inflexible. Apple, meet Dyson

~~~
sliverstorm
_This is form over function._

Exactly why I'm not taking it seriously. What does form do for a power
desktop? Nothing. I put my desktop under my desk. I can't see it. I have to
stoop to reach the power button.

I'm not going to say there's absolutely no use for form in _any_ desktop, but
IMO it's practically the number one least important feature of a power
desktop/workhorse.

~~~
rickmode
To me this looks like an example of Apple's craftsmanship in depth where
quality and elegance can be seen at multiple levels, from the case to the
internal hardware to the OS and its APIs.

Certainly one can find flaws, but compared to a typical Windows machine Apple
has more craftsmanship (in my opinion). Windows exhibits more of the "just get
it done" utilitarian idea.

~~~
michaelwww
It amazes me that people are willing to pay twice as much for the fluff. I'm
not convinced Apple Mac OS is twice as good as any other OS.

~~~
rickmode
You may have a point. I did say "in my opinion". ;)

I'm could be jaded from working on Windows apps too long. (I worked on Windows
stuff from the 3.1 era through to Windows 2000.)

~~~
michaelwww
Don't get me wrong - I like everything about the Mac Pro but you pay for your
thrills. I can't afford to lay out that kind of scratch unnecessarily. Apple
has done a nice job with the design, no doubt. Meanwhile, I have a high end
Windows PC for much less money. The speed thrills me, so I don't need a Mac to
get a thrill.

------
btown
Copywriting and product-debate aside, that's some pretty impressive frontend
presentation. From what I can tell from the minified JS, they're using
Require.JS for code organization, their own jQuery-like utility toolkit they
call Apple Core, fully pre-rendered text everywhere, and javascript that plays
and pauses two copies of the HTML5 video, one backwards and one forwards,
shuffling their opacities for seamless transitions.

Interestingly, they don't need separate videos for each transition, because
the video is streamed rather than pre-buffered in its entirety. Not that Apple
really cares about its bandwidth costs here, but it's an interesting strategy.

The minified JS: [http://images.apple.com/v/mac-
pro/home/a/scripts/macpro.rele...](http://images.apple.com/v/mac-
pro/home/a/scripts/macpro.release.min.js)

And the raw video (download and play in QuickTime):
[http://movies.apple.com/media/us/mac-
pro/2013/96614028-695e-...](http://movies.apple.com/media/us/mac-
pro/2013/96614028-695e-478a-8db8-0ad1c7b42925/video/macpro_main_desktop.mp4)

~~~
fourstar
Posting minified JS is pretty useless. Open up Chrome inspector tools and use
pretty print to actually read it:

[http://i.imgur.com/PHUaDSU.png](http://i.imgur.com/PHUaDSU.png)

~~~
btown
Wow, I've done entire reverse-engineering projects (namely re-skinning Angry
Birds Chrome, for one) squinting at minified JS and never knew that that was
what that { } button did! Thanks!

~~~
csmatt
There are so many tools for unminifying JS, why would you squint at it in the
browser?

------
rsync
I love this new device. I suspect I will buy one.

But it doesn't solve my "need a new mac pro" problem.

Right now my 2009 octo mac pro, with six displays attached, plays three roles:

\- it is my high end desktop workstation, with three primary high resolution
(2560x1600) displays.

\- it is my HTPC, with one of the six monitors strung into another room
entirely.

\- it is my office NAS, with four internal 3TB disks

So, three roles all rolled into one device. This is possible because I can
expand it internally with 3.5" disks and pcie cards. In fact, my 3x gt120
cards only take up 3 of the 4 slots.

To duplicate this, I _think_ I need to:

a) add an external disk enclosure

b) drive my fourth display via HDMI

c) pray that 3x 4k displays leaves can coexist with 2x 2560x1600 displays as
secondary displays, which seems unlikely

d) pray that the disk array doesn't cannibalize enough thunderbolt bandwidth
to interfere with the displays

e) another external box for cd ripping and general optical disk usage

... and all the while, with a single physical CPU, and no ability to ever
upgrade the graphics cards. Granted, my needs must not be complicated if I can
live with gt120s in 2013, but it was _nice to know_ I could upgrade.

Oh, and I have upgraded my SSD boot device three times in the 4.5 years I've
owned this system. That was nice.

So again, I actually really like this device - I think it is a very, very cool
computer. But as a discriminating mac pro user who pushed the form factor to
the limits, it is not at all what I need.

~~~
matthew-wegner
Maybe build a Hackintosh? I've been running one for 18 months (coming off a
Mac Pro when it became clear upgrades would be a long time coming). It's
pretty great. If you're careful with hardware selection you can apply Apple's
own software updates with zero issues.

See: [http://www.tonymacx86.com/351-building-customac-buyer-s-
guid...](http://www.tonymacx86.com/351-building-customac-buyer-s-guide-
may-2013.html)

~~~
Dirlewanger
Awesome. Thanks for the link. Would you be able to say with any reasonable
certainty that it is primarily the motherboard that is key for building a
Hackintosh? I want to build a Haswell Win7/OS X machine, and judging from this
link and the other brief research that I've done, that if one sticks with
Gigabyte for the motherboard you're more or less all set.

~~~
free652
Correct. The motherboard is the key, followed by the WIFI adapter.

------
ChuckMcM
As a design asthetic I find it fairly interesting. By working toward a design
managing the thermals in a way that allow for more heat removal while allowing
it to not sound like a 747 on takeoff is good. I suspect your typical desktop
machine will benefit from that kind of thinking.

Also for a long time Intel was trying to push all of the expansion boards
outside the case with USB, and Apple seems close to achieving this with
thunderbolt. Leaving the primary chassis as the system/holder for
CPU+Memory+GPU with perhaps some boot media, and putting anything else
outside.

I can't wait to see on in action to see how well this strategy works in
practice vs in slideware.

~~~
aylons
Thunderbolt is actually a few PCIe 3 lanes (4 in the original incarnation) and
a display port in a cable. This way, an external peripheral is not inferior to
most on board alternatives in terms of throughput, and has not room for
interesting things add size is no longer a constraint.

I am developing my first PCIe project and must say I am still shocked on how
powerful and underutilized the bus is. Hope Thunderbolt solves this -
peripherals could be much powerful than today, from SSDs and USB sticks to
high bandwidth data acquisition tools.

~~~
monkmartinez
"... to high bandwidth data acquisition tools...."

I see what you did there.

------
untog
This page is a fantastic example of great development skills used in a way
that is utterly infuriating to use. I don't want it to animate when I use my
scroll wheel. I want the page to scroll.

Off topic, but were this and the Air the only product announced? If so, I'm
disappointed- I was hoping to pick up an updated Macbook Retina 13". Oh well.

~~~
mikeash
I imagine they designed it for trackpads, not scroll wheel mice. It works
pretty well on a trackpad.

~~~
bhauer
Odd that they implemented a web site for a desktop PC for consumption via the
input devices of a laptop, and not a... desktop PC.

~~~
kbenson
Don't their mice have a trackpad built into the top now?

~~~
qqg3
Yes, magic mouse is pretty much a trackpad

------
glenra
"Okay, we COULD just label the ports with regular high color contrast paint.
Say, white paint on a black background or black paint on a white background.
But that would be TOO EASY and the panel would then really 'pop' against our
otherwise monolithic clean design. Which would be distracting."

"But during actual use the ports are going to be on the BACK of the device (so
you won't see it) and will have random stuff plugged into some of the ports,
which ALSO would disturb the pure clean lines of the thing, so who cares?"

"No, no, we've got to label this thing with black labels on a black
background, so it blends in."

"How will people be able to see the labels?"

"Easy. We'll add LED backlighting!"

"How will people TURN ON the LED backlighting, without the button to do THAT
destroying our perfect design?"

"Simple - there's no button for it - you just move the machine to turn on the
backlight!"

"What if you want the backlight to STAY on for a while, longer than the
default?"

"Just keep shaking the machine. Or duct-tape a vibrator to it."

"That's PERFECT!"

~~~
notatoad
considering the labels are totally unnecessary, i don't see the problem. it's
not like people are going to be plugging USB cables into the thunderbolt ports
or the power cable into the HDMI port by accident.

~~~
vacri
A USB jack can fit into an RJ45.

Still, there is something of a problem in that sometimes people plug things in
while the power is off, and computers are often kept tucked away in dim
corners. Looking at the machine from an angle, it's not always obvious which
connectors are where, especially if you're not a techy who could name ports in
their sleep.

~~~
Samuel_Michon
That sounds like a plea for LED illuminated ports... like the Mac Pro will
have.

~~~
darkarmani
They can't make the proper port glow when you get the cable close to it?

~~~
seanp2k2
My Dell U2410 has buttons that detect when your finger gets near them (they
start lighting up) which is pretty slick. Maybe it's just a bit more expensive
/ harder to integrate and wasn't considered worth it. Not exactly sure how it
works but I think it uses the same physical phenomenon as a theremin. Again
it's mostly pointless, but it is pretty slick.

~~~
Cthulhu_
> Maybe it's just a bit more expensive / harder to integrate

And probably patent-protected by Dell and needing licensing cost, instead of
coming up with something they could patent themselves.

------
wisty
OK, so it's not a Mac Pro. It's a Mac Mini Pro.

As long as it's not too expensive, it's exactly what a lot of prosumers might
want (especially those who want to ditch their laptops for iPads and iPhones,
and maybe a MBA for the road- a lot of people's MacBook Pros live on their
desks). I can't see a serious video editor wanting one, but they're all
jumping ship to get cheaper Wintel workstations (and at some point, studios
will move the heavy lifting to some kind of local big-iron server).

I can see developers who want a slightly better machine buying it, and rich
people, and photographers, and so on. If Thunderbolt expansions bring down the
costs of upgrades (compared to buying the upgrades with Apple - not everyone
likes to open their chassis) then it might be quite attractive.

~~~
look_lookatme
"I can't see a serious video editor wanting one, but they're all jumping ship
to get cheaper Wintel workstations"

Is this actually the case? I don't know anything about that segment of the
computing industry, but I just assumed that FCP was the industry standard.

~~~
pavlov
FCP was never the only solution in the pro video editing market. Avid has been
the traditional choice since the mid-'90s, but FCP was encroaching.

Unfortunately the botched introduction of FCP X sent Apple back a decade in
this market. FCP X was too different from 7, and it didn't even support many
of the workflows that pros needed. Since users had to learn new software
anyway, a lot of editors went to Avid or Adobe (Premiere is quite good
nowadays).

~~~
stephen_g
You'd be surprised how many pro editors are using FCPX now. With the updates
it's got it's better than FCP 7 was.

~~~
pavlov
I'm not saying FCP X is bad today, but the 1.0 release was an undisputed flop.

A lot of people jumped ship to Avid and Adobe rather than wait for FCP X to
eventually improve. Convincing them to take another look at FCP X won't be
easy.

------
mbell
Personally I couldn't care less about the design, it would be sitting behind
several large screens anyway and the thermal ideas sound interesting....

That said....

4 ram slots???? Really? 12 cores, 2 GPUs and I get 32GB of ram? Maybe 64GB if
16GB dimms in standard sizes become a thing? That kills it completely in my
book.

~~~
bilbo0s
That paucity of slots is what got me to thinking...

I was wondering if the idea would be to daisy chain these together via TB 2
and see one workstation with... say ...36 cores or whatever.

I'm trying to determine if that would be a possibility. In essence, is the Mac
Pro a Thunderbolt 2 "processing" device? Or could it be made to be one?

If it were...

Man...

put me down for a couple of them. I mean you could potentially get a 48 core
"workstation" in 1/2 the volume of the current Mac Pro.

~~~
kunai
Since they run on different boards, technically you'd set up two or three
nodes and run them in a parallel supercomputing setup.

Would be expensive as hell, I'd reckon.

------
jmduke
Apple is doubling down on their segmentation here. They're clearly abandoning
(I don't mean this in a pejorative sense) a mass appeal with this new
iteration and targeting it specifically to 'actual' professionals: graphic
designers, video editors, etc.

~~~
gamache
I don't see it that way at all. The Mac Pro has always been about the top 1%
power users. The appeal was twofold: it was a bitchin'-fast machine you could
stuff with as many cards and drives as you want, and it ran OS X.

This new design removes the former selling point. 12 core max (same as
current)?? Four RAM slots (down from eight)?? 1/6th the volume (i.e. space to
plug stuff in)??

This offers almost no advantage over a late model iMac with a Thunderbolt-to-
PCIe breakout module (which is what many power users have been doing in the
years since the last update).

~~~
bjustin
>This offers almost no advantage over a late model iMac with a Thunderbolt-to-
PCIe breakout module (which is what many power users have been doing in the
years since the last update).

A few big advantages over the iMac: Xeons processors, so more cores & more
cache; ECC RAM; and (two) workstation graphics cards. Six thunderbolt ports
means up to 36 (!) PCIe peripherals by daisy chaining, which means a lot more
expandability than the iMac or even the 2010 Mac Pro.

~~~
makomk
I suspect that a lot of people bought the Mac Pro despite the fact that it has
Xeon processors, rather than because of it. They're a lot more expensive
without a huge performance benefit for desktop or workstation applications.

The main advantages of Xeon were dual-socket support and support for oodles of
RAM slots, and the new Mac Pro supports neither of these things.

~~~
Samuel_Michon
I think you’re omitting the Xeon’s increased stability versus consumer grade
architectures. Many Mac Pros are used to run non-stop, they need to be more
dependable than other computers.

~~~
jarek
Does this really matter in 2013? Serious question. I could see ECC having been
useful in 2000 in the midst of the megahertz race, but I'm not too convinced
about today...

~~~
seanp2k2
Check out [http://linux.die.net/man/1/edac-
util](http://linux.die.net/man/1/edac-util) \+
[http://buttersideup.com/edacwiki/Main_Page](http://buttersideup.com/edacwiki/Main_Page)
and look on some servers to see if they're seeing many correctable ECC errors.
I've def. seen it happen on some Dell PERCs.

------
jroseattle
First thing I noticed was all the dark -- what, did someone turn off all the
lights? Where's the white that has dominated Apple material for so long?

But hey, give Tim Cook some credit here. This is literally the first
significant product release during his tenure as CEO where the major elements
of the update weren't simply screen-size or resolution. I don't have a lot of
confidence this is earth-shattering, but it will be interesting to see how
this is received.

~~~
toufka
Classically, White has been consumer grade and black has been the professional
grade in Apple design. See iPhoto vs Aperture, or iMovie vs Final Cut Pro. The
Macbooks were all white, while the pros were (admittedly not black, but)
metallic. I don't think it is that much of a change from what they've already
projected out there.

~~~
l33tbro
This rule was left behind some time ago. Eg, Macbooks are also silver - even
the Air. Obviously Iphones are both black and white, regardless of features.
But who knows, maybe the new tower is a throwback to the old days?

~~~
goblin89
Black seems to still remain Apple's ‘pro’ signature. Note that MBPs (and,
interestingly, iMacs) have black framing around their screens.

------
speedyrev
The last upgradable mac is now dead. I thought the whole idea of the pro was
the ability to put in graphic and other specialty cards as needed for "Pro"
use. This looks like another cute consumer PC. Maybe they'll sell it along
side the HP's at Sam's Club.

~~~
gecko
I think the idea here is that, between plentiful Firewire 2 and Thunderbolt 2,
you now have enough external bandwidth that you shouldn't need internal cards.
When given the choice, I prefer this route, since it means I can transport my
proprietary stuff to other machines, or even use them with laptops in a pinch.

That might not work for you, granted, but the amount of bandwidth available
between all those ports (20 GB/s in the case of Thunderbolt 2) should be
enough to cover most use-cases.

~~~
reportingsjr
A correction: Thunderbolt 2 can go up to 20Gbits/s not 20GBytes/s. Thunderbolt
uses a 4x PCI-E 2.0 connection.

Things like graphics cards use 16x PCI-E 3.0 at this point which is
128Gbits/s.

~~~
kbuck
Actually, a 16x PCIe 3.0 slot can do ~128Gbit/s each way - ~256Gbit/s in
total[1].

[1]:
[http://www.pcisig.com/news_room/faqs/pcie3.0_faq/#EQ3](http://www.pcisig.com/news_room/faqs/pcie3.0_faq/#EQ3)

------
Finbarr
I'm amused by all the disparaging comments about this new design. Every time
Apple launches an incredible product it is always immediately decried. I'll
wait til these are on sale before judging them.

~~~
anonymousab
Disparaging remarks? What, do you have something against trash cans?

------
jiggy2011
When I clicked on that page and saw "The future of desktop computing.." and
that trash can slide into view I actually thought it was supposed to be a
metaphor.

~~~
Aqueous
They said they were abandoning skeuomorphism but they sure made the Mac Pro
look like an actual waste bin.

------
grecy
Some pictures coming out are extremely interesting.

This one seems to show the the "CPU board" with the single CPU, and RAM on
each side... OK [http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-
content/uploads/2013/06/proces...](http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-
content/uploads/2013/06/processor.jpg)

This one shows the two "GPU cards" \- notice the one on the right has a white
connector, bottom middle, which is for the SSD. Otherwise, they are almost
identical (I see slightly different components at the top)
[http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-
content/uploads/2013/06/graphi...](http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-
content/uploads/2013/06/graphics.jpg)

And this one shows the "GPU Card", now with an SSD in that connector....
[http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-
content/uploads/2013/06/storag...](http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-
content/uploads/2013/06/storage.jpg)

Finally this one shows the three "cards", presumably with the power supply at
the very bottom. [http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-
content/uploads/2013/06/therma...](http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-
content/uploads/2013/06/thermal.jpg)

I think the big question here is how are the three "cards" joined together?

If they're using some kind of connector, I imagine that makes them
"replaceable" if not "upgradable".

It also hints at the possibility of getting just one GPU card.

I wonder if one could have 2xCPU cards and 1xGPU card?

Interesting

~~~
Sealy
-I think the big question here is how are the three "cards" joined together?

These days PCIx (and similar) extender cables are used commonly on server
builds. I wouldn't be surprised if apple used some sort of equivalent ribbon
to connect the graphics cards.

------
programminggeek
This is incredibly beautiful and I'm sure quite expensive, but I want one,
even it makes no sense to have one. Good work Apple

~~~
jgreen10
Really? It looks like a funerary urn to me.

------
kryten
Certainties:

1\. Use of glue somewhere which knackers any chance of repairing it. Memory,
disks and that is it.

2\. Proprietary fan which will get noisy after time and cost a fortune to
replace. First step will be to put it on the floor so you can't hear it...
leading to...

2a. Someone is going to put a half drank coffee cup in it and blow it up.

2b. Plume of hairballs every time a cat owner fires it up as it'll suck in
every bit of crap off the floor (the dirtiest place in your house).

2c. Someone will whack their noggin on the desk while they're trying to plug
their headphones into it.

Perhaps I'm bitter because my 2010 MBP blew up spectacularly, but I'm seeing a
lot of visual design over sensible engineering in Apple recently.

The iMac is a sensible design over this. If only it wasn't such a bastard to
get inside it.

I tend to use computers for years (typing this on a 7 year old Lenovo). I'd
like the opportunity not to fill up a landfill after a couple of years.

~~~
testbro
Aren't all 2a,2b,2c all applicable to other machines though?

~~~
kryten
Based on the fact it looks like a bin, feeds air from underneath and has the
headphone connector on the back, no.

------
philip1209
The product descriptions seem just horribly written:

> Something that provides an extremely powerful argument against the status
> quo.

> The new Mac Pro packs an unprecedented amount of power in an unthinkable
> amount of space. A big reason we were able to do that is the ingenious
> unified thermal core

> Not only does it feature a state-of-the-art AMD FirePro workstation-class
> GPU with up to 6GB of dedicated VRAM — it features two of them.

> The new Mac Pro looks unlike any other computer. Because it is unlike any
> other computer.

------
speeder
Is someone seeing something more on this page than me?

I am using a the Rockmelt browser on a Mac Mini, and I am seeing only the
trashcan thing...

The page has some secret trick or something to have more info???

~~~
potatolicious
Doesn't seem to work on some browsers. Not on the latest Firefox but works on
Chrome and Safari.

~~~
mike-cardwell
I'm using Firefox 21 on top of Debian Wheezy. Works fine for me.

------
drivingmenuts
It's light on RAM slots and monitor connections.

Four ram slots? That maxes out at 64 Gig of RAM. What happened to the old 128
Gig?

Sorry, dropping $999 ea. on a single monitor, much less multiple monitors, is
just stupid. The difference at the screen between a Thunderbolt display and a
display costing half as much isn't enough to warrant the extra cost.

The former machine had a visually distinct box with tons of space inside for
the video card of your choice and you could stuff drives in it for days,
without relying on expensive external boxes that sucked up slots on the power
strip.

It's probably the right design for someone, but not for people who want a
serious workstation and not an art statement.

~~~
woobar
It has 6 Thunderbolt/Display Port (i.e. any display with $10 cable adapter)
connections. How much more do you need?

------
duncan_bayne
It's disturbing to see so many people drooling over this hardware. Granted,
it's tasty-looking, but:

\-
[http://www.defectivebydesign.org/apple](http://www.defectivebydesign.org/apple)

\- [http://www.ifixit.com/blog/2011/01/20/apples-diabolical-
plan...](http://www.ifixit.com/blog/2011/01/20/apples-diabolical-plan-to-
screw-your-iphone/)

\-
[http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2337939,00.asp](http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2337939,00.asp)

Give some thought to the above before buying an Apple device, please.

~~~
codex
These are critiques of Apple's other products and software, but none of them
apply to this specific hardware. Are there specific criticisms of this Mac Pro
hardware?

~~~
duncan_bayne
These are critiques of Apple. In buying a Mac Pro, you're lending financial
support to a company that does the things spelled out in those articles.

~~~
oblique63
I don't know why you're getting downvoted, this is an objective trend that
you're pointing out and it's a legitimate basis to use for predicting the
style of any future Apple device. A company's product launches aren't discrete
probabilistic events like tosses of a coin -- they tend to follow patterns...

[Edit]: Man, I didn't even say I supported/cared about this manufacturing
aspect (hint: I don't) and I'm already getting downvoted... Considering all
the controversial things I've said on this site that hadn't earned me a
negative score before, this doesn't exactly shed a positive light on Apple
proponents. It's OK to not care about a certain aspect/political issue, but
the guy's argument was a sound one, at least give him/her that much.

~~~
codex
I think some people get tired of repeated comments by geek-liberal activists
coming out of the woodwork to attack Apple, when, in reality, very few people
share their particular perspective. "Ah, now we see the violence inherent in
the system!"

~~~
duncan_bayne
Obligatory: [http://xkcd.com/743/](http://xkcd.com/743/)

In all seriousness, this is a real problem in IT. People see shiny new
products, and focus on the shininess, not the ethics behind it.

E.g. reviews of new Android devices that so rarely investigate whether the
manufacturer is abiding by the terms of the GPL.

------
jpalomaki
This concept reminds me of the old Silicon Graphics workstations. Some 15
years ago they were something I would dream of having on my desk. SGI was the
symbol of performance and graphics and the computers looked very different
from everything else.

Maybe this is also a tribute to Steve Jobs and NeXT. Think Different.

------
Fomite
Taking a look at the site and the walk around, it eases _most_ of my problems,
but not all of them:

\- The RAM looks accessible enough that it can be changed/modified with ease.

\- That's true for the built-in drive as well, it looks like one of the
"blade" type SSDs that comes in the rMBP. Even if its a slightly different
form factor, I've got faith OWC will come up with solutions. Will be slightly
miffed about losing a "No SSD, give me the cheapest mechanical drive"
purchasing option, but there it is.

\- My real concern is the GPUs. With the new thermal profile and the walk
around, those really don't look like off the shelf parts. I'm pretty sure you
can't easily swap them. I'd prefer an nVidia option generally, and more
importantly the FirePros will likely be optimized for graphics work, and
terrible for gaming (yes, I do sometimes game on my Mac Pro) and not optimized
for scientific computing, which would be my other use case.

It's _just enough_ to make me like the new Mac Pro, but also hesitate because
of the GPU.

~~~
binarycrusader
That's my only real complaint (without seeing the price) at the moment: the
GPUs. I _really_ want/need an nVidia option.

~~~
Fomite
That's where I'm at now. A FirePro is a graphic design GPU. I don't _want_ a
graphic design GPU. That's not what I do. I certainly don't want to pay for
two of them.

And at the prices the Mac Pro will go for, we're also talking about comparable
systems with a Titan in them. I'd much prefer that GPU, except Apple's going
with a bespoke design by the looks of it.

------
mark-r
Up to 3 4K displays at the same time? It seems Retina desktop monitors are on
their way. I'm surprised they weren't announced at the same time.

~~~
rsync
My current mac pro has 6 displays attached, three of which are "high
resolution" (2560x1600).

I _think_ that the 4k displays require 2x thunderbolt ? Or else why would
there be a limitation of 3 ?

So all 6 TB ports used, and no ability to add a 4th display.

EDIT: well, I could add a 4th with HDMI, but it would be low resolution, and
the 5th and 6th displays are impossible. Also, all 6 TB ports used up, so no
further expansion is possible.

~~~
gfosco
Thunderbolt can be daisy-chained just like USB, so you're not limited to just
the 6 provided ports.

~~~
rsync
"Thunderbolt can be daisy-chained just like USB, so you're not limited to just
the 6 provided ports."

Ok. Still trying to understand the "3" limitation on 4k displays. If it's a
bandwidth issue, you'd think the number would be _4_ , since there are two
cards.

And if it is bandwidth, then presumably 3 4k displays plugged in and ... even
the empty TB ports become unusable since there is no more bandwidth available
?

I just want to plug in 6 monitors and am trying to figure out how :)

~~~
binarycrusader
It's bandwidth of the HDMI interface (is my understanding), but even then, the
max of a standalone AMD or nVidia graphics card is typically three displays.
And these are 4K displays!

------
KaiserPro
Hurrah! GPUs sealed directly into the machine. No more keeping old macs alive
with extra GPUs. (the quadro 4000 and k5000 really helped the 2009 macpro)

It also appears to only have one CPU. From what the page says its only got one
Memory controller, which as the "new"* Xeons have onboard memory controllers.
So that seems a bit of a fail.

*as in the same Xeons that have been in the HP Z620/820 for the last 8 months

~~~
wtallis
This Mac Pro will be using the Ivy Bridge-based Xeons, not the Sandy Bridge-
based ones that are in the HP machines you refer to.

~~~
KaiserPro
Indeed this appears to be the case.

The only thing appears to be going for this mac is that it has nice disk
bandwidth.

The Z series workstation is going to be cheaper, and almost twice as fast+.
(assuming one buys the correct fusionio card.) it also has the advantage of
taking normal pci slot graphics cards, which can be upgraded later.

+owing to having a second CPU

------
sandipc
Reminds me of the Cube. But Thunderbolt and USB3 make this much, much more
versatile...

------
podperson
The design seems pretty ugly to me, but it is functional. It's essentially a
wind tunnel with all the circuit boards placed against it.

~~~
bluthru
It's a pure cylinder. How can a basic form be ugly?

I'm pretty impressed that they didn't slap a logo on the front.

~~~
fluffyllemon
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platonic_solid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platonic_solid)

------
rdl
I'm a big fan of everything except less RAM capacity. Getting the disks out of
the case makes a lot of sense -- 4 drives was never enough to be meaningful. A
boot SSD and a big 8+ drive external RAID on TB2 seems a lot better (ideally
with an SSD or more RAM to cache), and/or NAS/SAN.

Curious where it will be priced; if it's $1999 or less for a usable base
config, it could be a default. Mini never really made a lot of sense as a
desktop. It's depressing leaving an rMBP docked all the time.

~~~
ericd
Unfortunately, I think the CAD cards and Xeons might make it impossible to
price at that level, unless the base config is severely pared down.

~~~
rdl
One low-end xeon (and one ati) is pretty low end. Xeons are not _that_ much of
a premium at the lower levels. ECC RAM is worth it to me. (the question is
where the low end is vs. Mac Mini; I'd consider a low end one as a HT box vs.
a Mac Mini, even)

~~~
ericd
It sounds like people have them pegged as FirePro W9000s, which retail for
>$1500, but that's probably the top option, with the lowest end being a much
wimpier card. So you may be right.

(Also, I didn't realize they had ditched the dual-CPU approach, though that
was probably a good decision)

------
bane
The New Mac Pro, the world's fastest trashcan introduced by the world's least
usable web page.

More seriously, I think it's pretty cool, I like that the design has a _point_
, thermal management, rather than just having a weird shape to look all
"designy". It's hard for me to accept that this is a pro machine though, very
over integrated for that kind of role.

And also, for a company that's not supposed to be focused on specs, there's a
lot of specs on that page (when it works).

------
fuzzywalrus
I've been using the same Mac Pro since 2008. I bought an ATI Radeon 6970
around a year or so ago and extended its life that much more. For most of my
computer's life, its had a PCIe eSATA card and an external case. It works
great still but its starting to show its age.

I can't say I'm too excited about a computer that's relegated to an much more
expensive Mac Mini. Thunderbolt 2 is nice but its a poor substitute for
internal drive bays and 16x PCIe.

~~~
bnastic
> Thunderbolt 2 is nice but its a poor substitute for internal drive bays and
> 16x PCIe.

Why, exactly? I don't know how many lanes will be in the Thunderbolt2 (haven't
checked the specs), but I have a Pegasus Thunderbolt RAID storage (4 drives),
which is _really_ fast. SSD sys drive + Thunderbolt storage = win in my books.

~~~
mturmon
Agree (I have a Pegasus TB RAID also). Thunderbolt changes the calculus for
system upgrades. Glad to see someone exploiting this.

------
squidsoup
The more I look at this design, the more I think it's absolutely brilliant.
Increasingly we're seeing fantastically small form factors for mid-ranged
desktop computers like the Intel NUC and the Mac Mini, yet high end
workstations are still stuck in massive, ugly ATX towers.

This seems to elegantly solve the problem of squeezing components that tend to
run very hot, into a relatively small space. The shared heat sync and cooling
pipe is really clever.

~~~
kayoone
that is because most people using high end workstations dont care about how it
looks or how big it is.

~~~
squidsoup
While only some people may care about the size or design of their workstation,
I suspect that nearly everyone cares about how noisy it is. The design of the
Mac Pro should make it relatively quiet I would wager.

------
skrause
If you can't upgrade anything easily, it's bascially just a very fast Mac
Mini.

------
r00fus
1.0Gbps writes for the internal SSD sounds pretty good. Wonder what component
provider they're using?

~~~
Already__Taken
That's pretty standard for the PCIe type SSD cards. I've been watching them
for a while I didn't know you could boot off them but it appeard that has
changed

[Scan Components]([http://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-hardware/all/hard-
drives...](http://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-hardware/all/hard-drives-
ssd/solid-state-drives-\(ssd-pcie\)-64gb-2tb))

------
sil3ntmac
My first reaction was, oh wow looks just like the NeXT cube, that's kinda a
cool tribute to Jobs.

Then my second reaction was, oh man, it will sorta look like I have a trash
bin on my desk. I wish they had made the dimensions a little different. I
think this will be the "flop" model where they work out hardware kinks and the
next one will be prettier/sleeker, so I'll hold out til then.

------
keithpeter
So instead of a Cube we have a Cylinder. I'm sure it will look nice with a
couple of large monitors and a Cintiq. The combination will still cost less
than even a _small_ company car and will be able to handle most of the tasks
people use workstations for!

------
Aqueous
Mac Pro: The world's fastest trash can.

~~~
pjmorris
But if you put a dome on top, legs on the sides, and painted it blue and
white...

~~~
blktiger
Genius! I want one!

------
antirez
I don't even care if it will be really great or not in the practice at the
moment (even if I hope it will be great), but it is so reassuring and warm to
see somebody trying new things...

------
chiph
There's no way a cat could sleep on it.

------
nwenzel
Would be interesting to see more GPU equipped machines designed for data
processing instead of just processing graphics. ("just" not to minimize the
value/importance of design, photography, and art, but "just" in that there's
more to GPUs that design, photography, and art.) Form + function for matrix
multiplication.

Though totally unrelated to the Mac Pro (other than it being a knockoff of
MacBook Air) Dell has made an interesting push for data crunchers. Their
recent-ish re-launch of an Ubuntu machine [0] that enables you to simulate and
then push your environment up to the cloud is an interesting, if fairly niche
product.

Could the Mac Pro, with it's specific audience, the Dell XPS, and maybe even
the RasberryPi, be the beginning of a much more specialized desk/laptop
computing movement in the face of iPads (errr... tablets) eating the general
purpose, internet surfing computer market?

[0]
[http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd](http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd)

------
ScottBurson
They go on and on about the memory _bandwidth_ , but never mention what is to
me the important number: the memory _capacity_. Anyone know?

~~~
wmf
128 very expensive GB.

------
kevincrane
It took me embarrassingly long to figure out how that website worked. The text
telling me to scroll took like 10-15 seconds to show up, so I kept exiting the
page and looking at these comments to see if there was more than just a
picture. Eventually I figured it out, but still had to scroll slowly and
methodically through to see everything.

~~~
pasquinelli
yeah, i felt like a bit of an idiot because i couldn't figure out how to go to
the next slide. then i found that i could click the dots on the right side.

later, i accidentally scrolled and it took me to the next slide. i was all
like, "ah, that's what they meant by scroll".

------
ajays
Not to fork the discussion, but: I'm thinking of putting together a new
(Linux) PC for my needs (which are mainly number-crunching, photo processing,
etc.). How much of the tech in this Mac Pro is available today to build one?
I'm not sure I've seen any PCIe SSDs, for example. How about Thunderbolt 2?

~~~
CoolGuySteve
Just a couple months ago, we built a similarly specced 1TB SSD raid using an
expensive controller and 4 256 GB drives for a multipass batch processing job
that we do. It gets about 1GB/sec read and write performance and cost about
$1k altogether. A controller that can max out the PCI bus is about $300 alone.

The major benefit we found is that the higher random access speeds allow us to
multiplex our jobs without completely thrashing the old RAID array that we
replaced.

But it sucks that there are no PCI solutions for what we needed. OCZ had a
couple cards but they were out of date and enterprise priced.

I think what we really need is some kind of slot for internal flash the same
way DIMMs are slotted, maybe even have the controller and flash chips
physically separated for more fine grained upgrades or have the SSD controller
embedded in the motherboard chipset.

The weird 9.5mm enclosure and sata cables that SSDs currently use is some kind
awkward weening phase off of spinning platters that needs to go away. Even
single SSDs are starting to saturate SATA3 and the SATA specs aren't keeping
up.

Hopefully a new trend in workstations that look like the Mac Pro will come
along the same way that many "Ultrabooks" look vaguely like MacBook Airs. At
which point we'll hopefully get more sensible SSD and interconnect management.

------
hkmurakami
The design is reminiscent of the 20th anniversary Macintosh.

[https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=20th%20anniversary%...](https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=20th%20anniversary%20macintosh&tbs=imgo:1&biw=1269&bih=1416&sei=fim2UYf7F9HUigLm2YDQCQ)

~~~
Samuel_Michon
What you’re looking at is the Bose subwoofer that came with the Spartacus,
it’s not the actual computer.

Interestingly enough, the subwoofer contains the computer’s power supply.

[http://512pixels.net/2012/12/tam/](http://512pixels.net/2012/12/tam/)

------
Fomite
I actually think this is a "Pro" machine - just the definition of "Pro" has
narrowed to someone who does visual design work (FirePros instead of a more
general purpose/off-the-shelf solution that can be swapped out for something
specialized) and has large enough storage needs that they've probably got an
external drive enclosure or NAS already (only the SSD for internal storage).

Unfortunately, that narrower version doesn't fit me. But since "Scientists"
weren't mentioned in the litany of users of the Mac Pro, and apple.com/science
is a 404 page now (which was better than the Leopard-era page that came before
it talking about the innovative Workgroup Cluster), I suppose I shouldn't be
surprised.

------
smegel
"no computer has been built this way before"

Well technically water cooling provides a common thermal core.

------
xrt
The design reminds me a bit of my "sunflower" iMac, which was a really nice
machine.

------
aboutaaron
I look forward to all the R2D2 mods this will birth.

~~~
wluu
Agreed, it does look like R2D2.

It was as if Apple lured R2D2 to the dark side and released as the Mac Pro!

------
pdknsk
Apple developers don't use Pivot? Text is cut off left and right on a
1200x1920 screen.

~~~
brudgers
I hate to answer a question with a question...but:

    
    
      Does Apple make a pivoting display?

~~~
wtallis
And the obvious answer: Yes, they sell more pivoting displays than non-
pivoting displays.

------
imeidolon
You can just see would-be entrepreneurs designing their trash can attachments
right now.

------
josteink
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is that a "pro" computer with no wired ethernet?

Who on earth would discard stable gigabit internet for some flaky wifi with
substantially lower performance?

Edit: Corrected as requested. Thanks.

~~~
adamt
If you scroll 'down' to the bit about expansion it says it has gigabit
Ethernet.

~~~
josteink
I was looking at the IO bit, and due to the new horrible black on black
labels, I was unable to see that there were actual ethernet ports there.

Completely unrelated ofcourse, but that's pretty telling about the black on
black + led thingie they've gone for. It's not something to be taken too far.

Edit: I have my monitors in portrait mode. Setting a window to span several
monitors and work in "landscape-mode", I can see ethernet is mentioned. On a
portrait screen it falls outside the visible area of the viewport and there
are no scrollbars.

Edit 2: By resizing the window, I see that the width of the viewport is
adjusted based on the height of the visible viewport (w = 2*h). So on a
portrait type display (tall) the width of everything is adjusted to be even
bigger. This pushes most of the content (apart from the black tube) outside
the visible viewport and off the screen.

Basically, this page was designed to only ever work in landscape and break
doubly in portrait. And hence most of the details on the page were simply not
available.

------
keithpeter
So instead of a Cube we have a Cylinder. I'm sure it will look nice with a
couple of large monitors and a Cintiq. The combination will still cost less
than even a _small_ company car.

------
rubyn00bie
Awesome. I've been wanting to play League of Legends in 4k.

------
Aardwolf
All I see is a cylinder?

I've seen a lot of Star Trek lately. It would fit in right next to other alien
spacecraft against the special effect space backdrop of The Original Series.

------
dakrisht
Worst webpage of all-time.

LET ME SCROLL damn it

------
inovator
The design looks so familiar, and it has been bugging me the whole day.
Finally, I found it! The new Mac Pro designs reminded me of this DLINK
Wireless Router

[http://thegadgetclub.net/wp-
content/uploads/2012/12/d-link-c...](http://thegadgetclub.net/wp-
content/uploads/2012/12/d-link-cloud-router-2500.jpg)

------
redler
The design is obviously polarizing and leaves many questions unanswered. But
one surprising and promising development is that Cook said this would be a
platform for "the next ten years." In the face of fears that Apple would
abandon the "pro market", this is one of the most explicit forward-looking
statements they've made in some time.

[minor edit for intent]

------
alinspired
The race to get the first donut-shaped accessory is on! And If I ever would
want a non-customizable computer I'd get an macbook air

------
rheide
It looks like a garbage bin.

~~~
alan_cx
I thought it looked like a car boot mounted sub-woofer.

------
kailuowang
Apple needs to design a really cool sticker sign that says "No smoking ashes!
This is an extremely expensive computer!"

------
carterschonwald
I'm pretty bummed about the new Mac Pro, I really want / need my dev work
station purchase this summer to have a Haswell generation CPU, plus NVidia
Cuda support. Which this seems to lack.

(context, I'm doing a lot of Dev work on high peformance numerical algorithms,
and the fewer machines i need to test all the different substrates, the
better.)

------
joeblau
For the home user, this is fine, but one thing Apple forgot about (And they
usually do) is the enterprise customer. If you're looking to replace your
current setup of Mac Pros with these, how would you go about mounting these
things in a rack?

------
danielcampos93
I wonder if you can use the center to play office basketball with the paper
scraps. If it gets hot because of usage you may even have a fun little fire
pit to use.

Regardless it looks cool and it may have issues but it will be a great
computer, overpriced but great.

------
xer0x
No one is talking about the HTML on that page?! Seriously, what kind of geeks
are you... ;)

------
noonespecial
The thing I really like about my old Mac Pro is that I could crack it open and
stick a couple old graphics cards in there and go crazy with media. I had 5
screens including a TV and a Wacom digitizer connected to mine.

This is a total miss for me.

------
mahyarm
It will be very frustrating if they don't make a dual coy socket version. If
you do iOS development and large compiled code bases, a mac pro is the best
you have. Hackintoshes waste your time in other ways.

------
veidr
As usual, the HN headline is misleading: it should read "Mac Mini Pro".

Oh wait, what?

------
hcarvalhoalves
Flash storage on a PCI-ex bus? Nice. I wonder which GPUs they are cramming
there.

The design is fantastic. I guess it has only one big fan on the top sucking
the heat of everything, should be silent.

Now brace yourselves for the price...

------
dman
What is the height of this workstation ? I hope apple is not messing with the
cardinal rule of making workstations tall enough that you can rest your legs
on them when you lean back on the chair.

------
sanjiallblue
Interesting design aesthetic. This still doesn't justify the price and Apple's
going to be taking a hit now that so much of the entertainment industry has
turned away from Final Cut.

------
jongraehl
Nice design. I hope it's quiet (is the bottom air intake really sufficient?)
Will it accommodate any standard parts (PCIe cards?) other than memory/drives?

Is the "one fan" concept patented?

~~~
Lexarius
They're going with external expansion options. There are enclosures you can
buy for PCIe cards to plug them in to the Thunderbolt ports if you need to.

------
Inetgate
This edged design inspired many Japanese users as below:
[http://togetter.com/li/516991](http://togetter.com/li/516991)

------
a1a
I really don't care about the product itself, but I am always glad when Apple
releases something new. It's really interesting to study the release process.

It's truly impressive being able to create such hype around a release. Funny
enough, many Apple fan-boys are basically fanatics. The rational thing to do
is of course to work against the corporations, in order to force them into
improving and lowering the prices. But somehow Apple has managed to create a
"personal army" of fan-boys, blindly defending their every move.

On a related note: I am really surprised they are going desktop, has not the
last five years been about replacing it?

------
assholesRppl2
How has nobody mentioned its size? I freaked out when I guesstimated 6.6
inches in diameter and 9.9 inches in height.

Size doesn't matter, but that's some astounding cramwork.

------
frozenport
Without expandability this product is for hipsters and the aesthete. If I am
paying thousands of dollars for a computer I refuse to compromise on core
functionality.

------
wasulahewa
Flash would have been the better option for the animation ;)

------
hcarvalhoalves
Not liking the design...

It looks like they were peer pressured to make something bland, and now iOS
looks too much apart from Mac OS. Throws away all learnability.

------
sgt
Due to the shape of it, the power contained within its walls... Yes, I'd be
very tempted to set the hostname to 'zpm'.

------
JulianMorrison
If Apple can save the desktop, I will thank them.

------
spitfire
Finally, I have a replacement for my NeXT Cube!

They've clearly studied their core markets - Graphics and viz work. I'm in
line to buy one.

------
serf
the iTrashcan looks fantastic.

iCan is super motivational, too.

~~~
xyos
iBin

------
lowlevel
I love it too... I will probably also buy one. :/ So much for cutting back on
my tech spending. _grumblesmurf_

------
davydka
Did apple finally make a responsive web page? I'm on my phone so I can't test
how it looks on a desktop.

------
snorkel
Whoever buys one of these promise us you will pose an Obi Wan doll behind it
flipping off the tractor beam switch.

------
beedogs
Ugly as shit. Completely useless for expansion. People will defend its
ugliness and lack of expandability.

------
andre
Only 2 things that I don't like about it: 1) price, 2) can't upgrade.

Otherwise it's very impressive.

------
nvmc
Another astronomically expensive Mac Pro. This time hermetically sealed and
unupgradable. Lovely.

~~~
marknutter
What's the price?

~~~
randyrand
It hasn't been announced, but xenon processors and PCI-E flash storage is
typically much more expensive than the Core Processor line or SSD storage
since they are almost exclusively marketed towards servers.

That said, disregarding the Apple tax I'm sure Apple gets pretty good deals on
their hardware so it is possible that it will be at similar price point as the
current line (which was typically regarded as over priced and outdated
anyways)

------
ChikkaChiChi
for a thousand bucks I would buy a new desk and monitor to make it the center
piece of my new study in my house. instead Apple will want at least five
thousand and expect it to be a business class workstation.

make this the Mac mini, you sell a gazillion.

------
lettergram
I like machines like I like my women, able to touch them all over.

Mac pro - still proprietary, no thanks

------
mixmastamyk
This reminds me of Steve a bit... like the Next Cube 2013. Must be why it is
black.

------
Dramatize
How well will it play the new crop of game? Battlefield 4 etc? (serious
question).

~~~
malkia
Ask EA, or the friendly folks at DICE

------
munimkazia
If it is a cylinder, won't it be easier to roll off a surface and fall down?

------
collypops
I look forward to Apple literally rolling them out in the near future

------
mehwoot
It's totally tubular.

The new OS is called mavericks
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mavericks_(location)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mavericks_\(location\))
).

Did apple suddenly become a bunch of surfers?

------
stox
Next up, the iSphere.

~~~
r00fus
I think iCone has precedence.

~~~
chacha102
Yeah, but the iSphere would fit perfectly on top of the iCan.

~~~
eumenides1
iTorus. it could fit around an iCan, hold an iSphere or iCone. And think of
all the Thunderbolt devices you can plug into a donut shape!

See you WWDC 2014!

------
groundCode
Is it me or does that look like something out of Tron?

------
thomaslutz
Price would be nice.

------
brudgers
The design is risky, one bad chip could ruin it.

------
izietto
The new Mac Pro: approved by Dart Fener :P

------
tmandarano
This is so awesome. Wow. Amazing design.

------
warrenmiller
Apple Urn

------
wcfields
The cube flopped.

Let's try a cylinder.

~~~
solnyshok
and then sphere? or a cone?

~~~
jarek
Hypercube. "No computer has been built this way before."

------
yoster
Personally, I have been waiting a very long time for this. PC users need not
read this. I love this company as they have revolutionized many things. Just
the App Store alone gives me enough reason to be loyal forever. iOS... just
beautiful. The Mac Pro... mind blown..

