
Patreon mistakenly shut down successfully funded project Armory3D - andyonthewings
https://armory3d.org/fund.html
======
throwaway2016a
> ... whether it was something I (unknowingly) did or if it was a mistake.

> I realized Patreon has every right to do this.

While true. I don't suspect that I would have had this much restraint. I
applaud the author for resisting what must have been the urge to make a
statement against Patreon, I can't help but to think it should be stronger
about who as at fault here.

> (Update: Patreon notified me that my email has been unblocked and I can
> start a new page from scratch. Apparently it was a mistake. Armory will
> continue to be funded on this page to stay safe.)

At least they are voting with their wallet and not just going back to the
platform. This is an awful response by Patreon. I can't believe this don't
have a way to restore backers and content. They really need to make a whole
new page from scratch? What the heck?

Best practice is first you suspend, give a chance for the person to respond,
then you terminate after 30 / 60 / 90 days. Full deletion immediately seems
like a bad software design choice.

This reminds me of the old (?) days of Paypal freezing accounts with no
recourse. I could understand if someone considered this theft. Theft of future
earnings in this case (past earnings in the case of Paypal).

Am I alone in thinking companies that handle money should be held to a higher
standard?

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tropdrop
It seems lately I see an article like this about once a week - "an algorithm
did it" and 1 person's livelihood in shambles, with said person needing to
prove they're real/not a criminal/not violating policies/not fired/ etc.

Just off the top of my head - [1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17350645](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17350645)

We need to think critically about how to propel legislative action requiring
every company/organization using machine learning to have a human-in-the-loop
that can override the mistake. It doesn't matter how good an algorithm is -
thanks to the nature of probability and a large enough sample size, it will
_always_ make a mistake. The onus to correct that mistake should not fall to
the victim.

Currently, if, say, one's Google's account is suspended because of a mistake,
there seems to be no recourse for a victim except to stir up a large enough PR
scandal. In essence - a "guilty until proven innocent" approach. Our courts
don't work that way and neither should the closure of our accounts (which are,
increasingly, our livelihoods).

~~~
DanAndersen
This is the danger of the "law is just code" mindset of companies interacting
with customers/clients. In the rush to automate and process-ize interactions
with "mere humans" under a Great Algorithm, they forget that effective law and
processes relies not on kafkaesque bureaucracies following flowcharts blindly,
but by ensuring that human judgment is kept in the loop.

Beware the rise of the techno-bureaucracy, as it is only a low-dimensional
lossy encoding of what we actually want.

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forkLding
I guess Patreon has reached that size and clout where it can accidentally
crush whole lives via careless mistakes.

~~~
squarefoot
With size often comes excessive automation, which could be the cause:
something being flagged by an algorithm and dealt with by another algorithm
before a human can actually see what's happening.

~~~
falcolas
I have to be honest, "an algorithm did it" is a pretty poor excuse, and it
gets harder and harder to swallow. People need to take responsibility for the
algorithms they create and they need to be ready to step in when they fail.

~~~
closetohome
Indeed. If a human is going to be affected, a human needs to sign off on it.

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dresslogical
Patreon's response was basically "Ups, we have removed all your funding but
you start over again".. the fuck

~~~
augbog
Wow that is REALLY fucked up. Does this mean they don't have back ups or
restore points? Super concerning if they get hacked...

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paradroid
Why is everyone expressing so much restraint? It is insanely difficult to get
your entrepreneurial projects funded. This guy needs to get a lawyer!

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styts
Given how much hype blockchain projects attract, I'd dare say that it's about
time we had distributed and uncensorable crowd funding platforms.

~~~
jkirsteins
See: ICOs. They come with their own set of problems.

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breakingcups
"Update: Patreon notified me that my email has been unblocked and I can start
a new page from scratch. Apparently it was a mistake."

Is anyone else really worried about both the technical state of Patreon and
the lackluster motivation to fix their own fuckups reading the above quote?

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DiabloD3
Wow, that's kind of unacceptable.

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solidsnack9000
_...I realized Patreon has every right to do this._

Maybe Patreon shouldn’t have that right?

