
Are Video Games Weakening the Workforce? - Donzo
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/09/23/why-amazing-video-games-could-be-causing-a-big-problem-for-america/
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sprafa
First of all I think this article is completely delusional. I've yet to meet
that many people who don't want a good job with good pay. The actual
catastrophe that's happened is the massive loss of manufacturing. Vaclav Smil
has said "In every society, manufacturing builds the lower middle class. If
you give up manufacturing, you end up with haves and have-nots and you get
social polarization. The whole lower middle class sinks."

And that's exactly what's happening. For all his faults (including mass
manipulation and being a possibly-tyrannical demagogue) Trump is right about
one thing - free trade is not always great and the loss of manufacturing was
not "value added" for everyone in the US. But of course discussing this means
opening up the whole argument about how economics is broken and you can't do
that, as it would threaten stability too much. But anyone who looks into it
can see it if they wish. Look into Jonathan Goldsmith's appearance on Charlie
Rose when GATT (precursor to the WTO) was announced. He predicted the whole
thing and what was going to happen. And he tried to warn us.

Link to video -
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4PQrz8F0dBI](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4PQrz8F0dBI)

See 1 minuet or 3 minute mark

~~~
sevenless
Some of us don't think humans are less deserving on account of which side of a
border they were born. Agreeing that free trade did somewhat hurt the American
worker, America's loss helped lift hundreds of millions of people elsewhere
(especially China) out of poverty.

It's hard to say they should have remained abjectly poor just so some
Americans wouldn't experience a (fairly small) drop in living standard. A drop
which could be alleviated by more socialist government policy anyway. From a
global perspective, free trade is the best thing for improving the welfare of
humans going.

~~~
sprafa
It's creating social pressures that might unravel democracy though. It's
happened before and it's happening again.

And you say "everyone is deserving of a good life" but Americans do not elect
their representatives to lift hundreds of millions of Chinese out of poverty.
They elect them to help improve their lives, and they are waking up the fact
that they're not doing that, so they are choosing a radical alternative in a
desperate attempt to move things in the other direction.

~~~
sevenless
This is the problem with democracy: the people making the decisions often
aren't those who are affected by them the most. It's how you define the
_demos_. It's unjust for Americans to vote on policies that make the
difference between life and death for large numbers of much poorer people,
without giving them any say.

If democratic decision-making goes against vast improvements to the lives of
billions of people, then democracy is simply wrong and should be abandoned.

~~~
sprafa
Maybe you're right but I haven't heard of any sensible alternatives.

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metaphorm
this article amounts to a form of cultural warfare. it's singling out an "out-
group" (young male gamer nerds in this case) to ridicule for one of their
cultural preferences and conflating that cultural preference with a huge
complex of other underlying structural problems that make it difficult for
_some_ of them to get started in a long term career path right away.

honestly this kind of thing sickens me. washington post should be ashamed.

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ddod
This is some pretty terrible journalism. They start out with a personal story
in the lede that I assume is not related to the study and whose subject was
probably not informed that he'd be called "less educated" without any sort of
qualification. The conclusion the writer wanted to make (that the US economy
is in danger because of a declining workforce) is not reflected in the study
nor common sense and the writer had to resort to finding a random economist
unaffiliated with the study to parrot their conclusion. This does not belong
on HN

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dahart
> has found little satisfaction in a series of part-time, low-wage jobs he’s
> held since graduating from high school.

Ha! Surprised? People are supposed to be "satisfied" with low-wage entry level
jobs? Forget the video games, that's just funny right there.

Consumer entertainment, and especially games, are getting really really good.
Somehow not surprising that games are more fun than crappy jobs. I guess it's
too bad that games and gaming systems are a big fat piece of the economy now.

This article has multiple triggers for me. I was thinking bullshit several
times at the statements full of assumption, but by the time I finished it, I
think it convinced me there's some amount of actual cause for concern, maybe
just not the inflated sky-is-falling amount it claims.

If happiness is going up, the first question is why is that a bad thing? It's
a stated assumption in the article that we believe happiness will go down
later, but this part doesn't have evidence, the evidence we have is that
people working less and playing more are happier. What is the point of life if
not happiness? There are some legitimate answers to that, but it's still a
legitimate question, not to mention part of our belief system of inalienable
rights in the US. Nobody was thinking shitty low paying entry level jobs when
they were coming up with the phrase "life, liberty and the pursuit of
happiness".

It also seems presumptuous to state as fact that this is a slippery slope that
will hurt the economy. Historically, the economy has depended on high
unemployment at times. Businesses and the rich complain when unemployment is
too low. Moreover, the economy keeps crashing, often during times of high
employment, for reasons surrounding the actions of a very few people.

On the bright side, if all the young men are succumbing to video games, maybe
this is a good chance for women to take over the workforce.

------
imaginenore
I've been saying for years that we need _mandatory_ career counseling for the
young people. At least once a year.

Young people need to know what choices to make instead of the "follow your
dreams" nonsense that works out for 1 out of 1000. Young people need to be
aware of how many artists / historians / gender study / english students
graduate each year and how bad they end up on average.

We need to show them that if you study X, your expected starting salary is A,
and salary after 5 years is B. We need to show them trends and possible future
skill demand.

They also need to understand what poverty looks like. Nobody thinks they will
end up flipping burgers when they are in school / college. But many of them
do, and the only reason is poor career choices.

~~~
samsonradu
Quite a good point, why would this be downvoted?

~~~
jsmith0295
Because HN was wrong about their guidelines preventing the inevitable decline
of the community and as more people have gained the ability to downvote they
just do it over anything they disagree with. I haven't even been here that
long and I've noticed a pretty big increase in the frequency of this type of
thing happening in less than a year.

~~~
sprafa
Ouch. I don't think that's quite true. His point was ok, but he took the
validity of the initial claim in the article for granted ("young men are
playing videogames instead of working hard") and most people here actually
don't think that's true. It's a factual disagreement not an reflex like you
paint it. The original article is nothing but socially-punitive speculation
anyway.

------
zabuni
Why aren't young men content to be a cog in the machine?

The American dream is dead. Blue collar workers can't get a home, a stable
marriage or path of advancement in the workplace. Why wouldn't they turn off,
tune in and drop out?

The economy is bifurcated. The price of most creature comforts, like video
games, music, and other entertainment spirals down to nothing. While the
requirements to become productive member of society (degrees, medical
insurance, homes) spirals up. A person making fifteen thousand versus thirty
thousand isn't going to make much of a difference when it comes to the big
purchases.

Diminishing returns have never been higher for unskilled labor. Why wouldn't
people direct that towards leisure?

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chronid
I feel like we are swapping cause and effect here.

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cm2187
Well, at least when they play videogames they are not stealing cars or dealing
drugs!

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kelukelugames
Does the title "Are Video Games Weakening the Workforce?" not sound like click
bait to you?

~~~
jMyles
I'm usually in defense of titles, but I do think that a reasonable rule is,
"No question-phrased titles unless the article concludes with a convincing
answer one way or the other."

