
'We're going to electrify the F-Series,' Ford exec says - prostoalex
https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2019/01/16/ford-f-150-electric-pickup-truck/2595515002/
======
ProfessorLayton
This is a big deal. The F-Series is the single most popular _vehicle_ in the
US, and nearly 900K of them are sold every year!

In fact, the top 3 models in the US are F-Series, Silverado, and Ram, so the
environment will definitely appreciate the electrified competition the
F-Series will force.

~~~
make3
I can't believe that pickups are the three most sold models in the US. That's
really insane. [https://www.businessinsider.com/best-selling-cars-and-
trucks...](https://www.businessinsider.com/best-selling-cars-and-trucks-in-
america-in-2018-2018-8#2-chevrolet-silverado-291074-107-19)

~~~
StillBored
I started driving a truck 15 years ago after a number of sports
cars/sedans/etc. I will never go back.

Its not insane when you consider any number of factors, starting with the fact
that Americans are BIG. As a large person myself (although not overweight),
I'm here to tell you that what a 120 pound 5'6" person finds comfortable
frequently is painful for me.

Second, I spend upwards of 2+ hours a day sitting my my car, spending a couple
grand extra a year for a seat that is 6" wider, doesn't require me to have the
flexibility of a 15 year old doing a deep knee bend every-time I get in/out of
my car, and allows me to sit upright rather than tilting the seat back into
the second row is well worth it.

Third, while there are some SUV's and maybe minivans that qualify on the
comfort front, they either tend to be less efficient, cost more, or have
social stigma associated with them.

Sure if I had two vehicles, I might be able to get away with driving the truck
on the weekend or when I actually need it, but the convenience of being able
to throw a bike, kayak, lawn mower, TV, piece of plywood/drywall/2x4/etc in
the back when I need to is worth it. Plus, I tow something maybe once a year,
but again, if you only have 1 vehicle.. The two vehicle argument might make
more sense, if there was space and insurance/taxes/etc were per person rather
than per vehicle.

Finally, part of the problem is the American car market. Sedan seems to
frequently translate to econobox. In Europe a basic car is smaller, but
somehow frequently seems to have far more leg and headroom than a similar
American car. This space problem seems to extend from the econoboxes in the US
to the luxury car market as well. Apparently in the US, taking an econobox,
putting leather and a bigger engine in while leaving the chassis/etc the same
(or streamlining it and making it even smaller as honda/acura seems to do) is
common. The result is that if your bigger than average, you likely don't fit
in something that isn't a SUV/Truck.

~~~
mikekchar
Interestingly (perhaps?) we got a Leaf a few months ago and the biggest thing
that surprised me is that it is _massive_ inside. I guess because the battery
is stored under the floor. Although I have relatively short arms for someone
my height (5' 10"), I still think it's instructive to say that when I'm
sitting in the passenger seat, I can't touch the dash without leaning forward.
And, again, I have slightly shorter legs, but with the seat all the way
forward, I can still stretch out my legs without bending them and not touch
the front. I have a long body (if it weren't for my short legs, I would be
well over 6') and I can wear a straw hat in the car and still have a couple of
inches of clearance. Not so sure about width... I'm probably "average sized"
for a North American (fat for a Japanese person -- my wife likes to remind
me...) and the width is perfectly comfortable.

My supposition is that electric vehicles are just a lot more efficient on
space. The leaf isn't a huge car externally (although it's not exactly small
either), but it's the biggest interior I've ridden in for a long time
(probably not since my Grandfather's Buick).

As for the 2 car issue, I actually don't use a car much at all. The only
reason we have one is because my wife insists that she needs it. Getting
things delivered is both more convenient and cheaper from my perspective. The
trade off is that I need to plan ahead a day or so, but I don't actually have
to lift big heavy stuff. If I need to haul something bigger, I just rent the
appropriate vehicle. I usually end up renting once or twice a year. It saves
massive amounts of money. It _is_ a lifestyle change, but it's got upsides as
well as downsides.

~~~
awful
Tesla same; drove one a few weeks ago, had 6 adults in it, and room for more I
think. More than enough room.

~~~
StillBored
Tesla at least in the case of the model S, has quite respectable
specifications, but I physically could not drive one a couple years back.
IIRC, Like the newer mustangs the seat angle drives my knees into the dash at
an angle which doesn't provide enough clearance to get my feet into position.
ALSO IIRC, I had to lean the seat way back to keep my head off the ceiling. If
I had one handy I would go measure why it doesn't work and compare it with
their official head/legroom numbers.

------
H1Supreme
Hopefully they make a version that isn't absolutely gigantic. I've wanted a
basic, no-frills 4x4 pickup truck with a 6 foot bed for years now. Problem is,
they're all gigantic. And, they all have back seats!

Ford released a new Ranger, which is nearly large as everything else out
there. In the late 80's / early 90's there were all types of small trucks on
the road (including the ranger). Now, there's zero options in US for something
that resembles those vehicles.

Currently, I drive a compact SUV (Honda HRV), which does nearly everything I
need. But, I have to line the hatch in a tarp when I deal with anything dirty.
I'd love a truck version of this car, but the options are just absurdly large.

~~~
sandworm101
Because the pickup isn't a work vehicle. It is a statement, a bit of fashion.
That's where the market is. People want to look like they need a pickup. In
reality, they would be better served by a minivan. They are why every truck
has back seats.

A more honest answer is probably to get the smallish SUV and buy a trailer. An
8'x4' metal trailer, with full wheels, will let you haul the wood/stuff those
few times a year you need to. When I was in university I had a small Jeep and
a proper trailer. On big climbing/camping trips I could haul more stuff than
any pickup. An 8'x4'x2' trailer is bigger than all but the biggest pickup
beds. The bed was also lower, which made things like motorcycles much easier
to load.

~~~
jessaustin
Good grief the bed heights are ridiculous now. Forget about reaching over the
side and grabbing something without having to climb in: and I'm 6' tall! I've
mastered this maneuver where I jump up and land with my stomach over the edge
of the bed. It's uncomfortable but I can actually reach something. My father
is three inches taller than I am, but it was still something of a revelation
for him a couple of weeks ago when he realized what I was doing. Now he's
doing it too.

It didn't used to be like this, before every pickup had to be 4WD with tall
suspensions to handle towing heavy trailers. I'd like to buy an old truck just
so I can actually reach my tools. Instead I'm thinking of getting one of those
dinky Ford Transit Connects, because it will keep everything dry as well as
accessible.

~~~
Symbiote
> Ford Transit Connects

That vehicle, and others like it, is the standard work vehicle for European
people with equipment to move. Pickups are very rare.

"Transit" is almost a generic word for any van in the UK since the middle
sized one is so common. "White van man" is derogatory, usually used when
there's one illegally parked or driving carelessly.

Anyway, the method is well tested.

------
artificialidiot
Rivian is the much needed kick in the nuts. When it turn out to be a viable
truck and not just vaporware with lofty promises, people took note. I am by no
means a truck or suv type guy but the idea of full electric one is very
intriguing, if only I had the space. I can imagine the allure of great low end
torque, improved storage capacity and the fuel savings for the more leisurely
drivers, who don't need to tow 10 tons or haul 1-2 tons which is frankly not
the case for the vast majority of the people in my experience.

People keep saying lithium batteries loose capacity and stuff but less energy
dense chemistries than the one in your mobile phone fare better in an
automotive setting.

Big automotive companies had all the time in the world to come up with the
tech of the future but they squandered the opportunity. Upstarts seem to be
poised to eat their cake.

~~~
clouddrover
> _Upstarts seem to be poised to eat their cake._

Probably not. I think Volkswagen will be the biggest producer of battery
electric vehicles within the next 3 years. VW is also talking about licensing
their MEB electric car platform to Ford (though not necessarily for this
F-150).

~~~
sjwright
I do like the look of the Golf GTE, but it's not sold here (Australia) and I
don't trust VAG as a company.

In my estimation, electric is perfect for the smaller second car, where it
becomes a no-brainer for 95% of commuting and shopping tasks. Tesla is going
for the electric-car-first market. Volkswagen, BMW and others seem to be
throwing darts at the wall to see what sticks.

Right now the most interesting future products are coming from Hyundai-Kia. In
particular I'm looking at the Kia Niro EV with quiet anticipation. A
completely normal and boring car that gets all the normal and boring stuff
right—but with a well sorted pure electric power train.

[https://youtu.be/AR5sDwF5aBM?t=103](https://youtu.be/AR5sDwF5aBM?t=103)

~~~
clouddrover
Yes, I agree the Hyundai Kona EV is the best value for money today. It's got
good range at a good price.

But the upcoming Volkswagen I.D. models are also cars which get the normal and
boring things right:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Tqw9LX3QE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Tqw9LX3QE)

[https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/about-us/concept-
cars/volkswage...](https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/about-us/concept-
cars/volkswagen-id)

The I.D. hatchback is supposed to be priced around the same as a diesel Golf.
They say they'll be able to drive down prices though the economies of scale of
their MEB platform:

[https://jalopnik.com/the-fascinating-engineering-behind-
vws-...](https://jalopnik.com/the-fascinating-engineering-behind-vws-electric-
car-pla-1829257860)

And for high-end luxury cars VW will have the Porsche Taycan and at least
three models of Audi e-tron in the next few years (Audi e-tron SUV to be
released soon, a future Audi e-tron GT based on the Porsche Taycan's platform,
and a future Audi CUV based on the same MEB platform as the I.D. models).

~~~
sjwright
All true but again, I don't trust VAG as a company so I'm not inclined to
purchase any of their products. I personally know too many people burned by
their various catastrophes with their DSG gearboxes and diesel engines that
I'd simply be too scared to hand over my money.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
That's interesting, they are perceived as a quality/aspirational brand in the
UK.

~~~
sjwright
They are here as well (Australia) among some people but their reputation for
reliability and longevity is trash among many segments of commentator and
consumer.

Mazda has an unusually strong footprint in Australia, particularly for
hatchbacks and crossovers.

Most non-German European brands are very unpopular, selling in relatively
minuscule numbers.

------
mchannon
Used to own a factory Ford Ranger EV.

The vehicle was a dead ringer for the gas version, down to the same weird
gearshift off-by-half-a-position thing. I even gave people rides and they
didn't notice it wasn't gas.

Alas, it had a second-hand 312V lead acid pack made up of out-of-production 8V
batteries. One battery went bad and then it became a yearlong half-finished
battery changeout. Sold it for about what I paid for it.

Would buy one (if they ever made any more) in a heartbeat. Word is Ford
crushed most of the ones they made, rather than all of them.

------
jdhn
I honestly think that this will help make electric vehicles more mainstream.
People here in the US love their F-150's, and if Ford could make die hard
truck fans switch from a V8 to a TTV6, then they're the ones that can convince
the same fans consider buying a hybrid or electric F-150.

~~~
msla
And I think the cultural problems will scuttle the whole thing.

[https://jalopnik.com/bro-truck-owners-are-deliberately-
block...](https://jalopnik.com/bro-truck-owners-are-deliberately-blocking-
tesla-superc-1831322063)

> Bro-Truck Owners Are Deliberately Blocking Tesla Supercharger Spots

> I generally like people, which may be why I never fail to be surprised when
> I encounter people being truly unrepentant dickheads for no good reason
> whatsoever. That’s what seems to have been going down at a Tesla
> Supercharger in Hickory, North Carolina, where a Tesla owner was attempting
> to charge her car, only to find the Supercharger spots blocked by at least
> three pickup trucks, with the trucks owners chanting “Fuck Tesla.” What the
> hell?

The problem is that electric cars are associated with "Believing In Global
Warming" which is associated with Blue Tribe. Red Tribe will fight this.

~~~
samsolomon
Many people bought Teslas because they were cool, not because they were
helping the environment. Tesla gave consumers what they wanted AND it happened
to be better for the environment.

If Ford can deliver an electric F-Series, it will have the same effect on
truck owners.

------
germinalphrase
Now, if only they would revive the light trucks of the 1980s. Even the new
Ranger looks massive (perhaps, that’s only looks though?).

~~~
amacbride
We had a 3rd-Generation Toyota 4WD that was simply amazing -- I think we sold
it with 350K miles on it, and it's probably still running today. I looked at a
recent Tacoma, and was shocked at how huge they'd gotten.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Hilux#Third_generation_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Hilux#Third_generation_\(N30,_N40;_1978–1983\))

~~~
ip26
The new Tacoma is basically a ringer for the old Tundra.

------
jws
There is plenty of demand for short range commercial pickup trucks. Think of
"on campus" maintenance vehicles. You need to tow equipment trailers, haul
tools and bulk items, but you don't put many miles on them. A trip to the gas
station is a pure waste of employee time, just charge them up at night.

Marketing may prevent Ford from leading with a short range truck, but a less
than eye wateringly expensive vehicle with a lighter battery pack and less
range would find buyers and make a safer, low volume launch.

~~~
nradov
There's demand sure, but not much profit available. Those fleet buyers choose
the cheapest stripper spec trucks and have no brand loyalty. So the
manufacturers focus on more profitable segments.

~~~
ip26
It's interesting though, with lower operating costs & less maintenance, they
might be worth the premium even for fleet. Fleet buyers get the stripper spec
because leather and A/C doesn't matter, but electric might influence the
bottom line.

------
mrbonner
I will not buy another pickup when my F-150 is gone. So many god-dang people
keep asking to borrow mine to run their errands.

~~~
EADGBE
buT HaRDly aNYonE aCtuaLLY haS USe fOr A TrucK

------
anumberofopt
This would have been amazing for when I lived in a small town in the
subarctic. My truck was always useful for things like dump runs or picking up
lumber etc. But the town was 20 km end-to-end so I would rarely drive more
than 10 km at a time. Of course you'd need a second car or truck for longer
trips, but everybody has more than one car in a rural area anyways.

Completely flips the environmental option that many chose where you drive a
Prius to work and a truck long haul, to the other way around.

------
appleiigs
The 2019 RAM 1500 already has an "eTorque" system which also known as an
"mild-hybrid".

------
mastrsushi
I have a really worried feeling about this. Don't get me wrong, it needs to
happen, but why start off the transition with commercial? It's the consumers
who are concerned with buying gas, environmental, and politics. The elephant
in the room is Tesla and of course every auto company will follow, further
eating into the consumer sedan to SUV market. So why doesn't Ford start there,
then work there way up to migrate its trusted largest asset F-Series? I worry
Ford is about to look really stupid, sticking out like a sore thumb.

~~~
blihp
Well Tesla does have the Semi so it's not like this is completely virgin
ground. Presumably they've got better data than we do re: mileage needs and
its possible (just guessing) that many of the F-Series buyers might make sense
re: living within range of a single charge while also seeing more of an impact
given the lower MPG of trucks.

Something else to keep in mind is that American big auto ironically hasn't
been, how shall I say this, umm... great at doing passenger cars for the last
40 years. So another thought is that they might see this as a place they can
be more competitive.

------
makerofspoons
Imagine the options for fleets- you could have electrical outlets along the
bed to let you plug in and use electric tools powered by your truck! That
would be huge for maintenance vehicles.

------
dwighttk
Ford: we’re going to make _an_ all-electric F-Series truck

Might be a better title

------
anewguy9000
so after 5 years the battery in my laptop is just toast.

can anyone comment on what happens to an electric car after 5 years? 10, 20?

i have a truck with 350,000 kms on it. will this still be possible?

~~~
thebluehawk
As with every manufactured good, certain things are prioritized. Your small
commodity laptop battery was likely made to be cheap and light, but not
necessarily built to last a long time.

That's like comparing a lawn mower engine and an engine in a car designed to
last hundreds of thousands of kilometers. They just weren't designed with the
same things in mind.

Tesla especially has done a fantastic job with the chemistry and cooling
allowing their batteries to have long life even when they are rapidly charged
(which usually wrecks batteries).

~~~
ip26
Here's one way to think about it, for example- is your laptop battery
thermally managed, with its own heating & cooling system to keep it at ideal
temperature? Chevy Bolt's is.

~~~
jessaustin
"Bolt" would be the logical name for a hypothetical Chevy electric truck.

~~~
ip26
There is already a Chevy Bolt, in case you had not heard.

------
King-Aaron
Oh god, the customer base nearly shat the bed when they announced a transition
from steel to aluminium panels... Looking forward to the uproar this will
cause!

------
voltagex_
Can anyone tell me why diesel hybrids aren't really a thing?

Edit: should have Googled - this makes sense:
[https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1080282_diesel-
hybrids-...](https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1080282_diesel-hybrids-why-
they-dont-make-as-much-sense-as-you-think)

------
benmorris
Even a plugin electric hybrid would be a big in my opinion (30-60 mile range).
We have owned a Volt now for over a year and it has been great. Since owning
it we average 75 mpg. My wife can nearly drive to work and back on all
electric.

I have an F-150, a ~50 mile range hybrid would cover nearly all of my driving.

~~~
greglindahl
Plugin hybrids make great sense, but they don't sell well:
[https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-
scorecard/](https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/)

------
justinph
I'd love to see them try. The difficulty of making a pickup truck
aerodynamically efficient are substantial.

~~~
xxpor
There's no reason why pickup trucks need to have the MASSIVE flat grills they
do today, other than aesthetic preferences. They're a disaster aerodynamically
as well as for pedestrian safety. Obviously there's a lot more to it (like the
bed) but it's a start.

~~~
strait
I think you're referring to the massive grill guards on the front of many
pickups. Are you saying "no reason other than aesthetic preferences" because
you feel like it?

Deer at night are a major hazard in much of the land. I hit a small one at
night a few weeks ago in central Texas and the dead center impact managed to
destroy the chintzy plastic grill in my car and buckle the radiator. I was
lucky at that. I was on a four lane highway, doing 50 in a 60 zone, and being
vigilant. Still, like most major impacts with deer, this happened completely
without warning. As fleet of foot as deer are, they still seem to be slightly
overly optimistic about crossing the road before the vehicle arrives, and with
cars as fast as they are, there is little room for error. (Try communicating
that to the deer)

My mom 'totaled' her car a few years back by hitting a bigger deer at a little
faster speed. An impact without any warning.

~~~
jessaustin
_Try communicating that to the deer_

PSA: the way to communicate with any roadside animal is to lay on the horn.
They rarely experience horn-honking, and it often shocks them right out of
whatever mental rut led them to run onto the road in the first place. While
car lights have a dazzling effect, car horns are scary to animals.

~~~
strait
Yeah, the horn usually gets to them, when you can see them up ahead, but one
should always brake first. I used to hear 'Never swerve, use the brake
instead!', and I couldn't imagine anyone with any driving experience thinking
that swerving was a good idea in the first place. I never had a serious
collision with a deer that was 'caught in the lights', standing on the road.
Always able to slow down enough to avoid or slow bump. It's the interceptor
deer on a full run that did the most damage, which happens more often than one
might think.

------
Havoc
Title is deceptive

------
elchief
Finally. I've been waiting for an all electric truck, and Ford is a decent
brand

------
abrowne
They're going to make all-electric (and hybrid) options. What the headline
first made me think was that the whole lineup would be all (=only) electric.

~~~
jmole
I was thinking the same thing. There isn't enough power generation capacity in
the US to support something like that.

~~~
cowmix
Wrong. For the energy it takes to refine 1 gal of gas you can drive an EV
around 27 miles.

~~~
EpicEng
And best of all, electricity just produces itself!

~~~
hannasanarion
No, but a central power generator can produce energy far more cheaply and
efficiently than a consumer gas engine optimized for mobility.

~~~
EpicEng
My point was that you should be comparing production and consumption directly.
Of course electric is better, we wouldn't have EV's otherwise.

------
21
This is terrible. How am I supposed to roll coal in an electric?

------
tomohawk
Please no. A hydraulic hybrid approach would be so much more appropriate.

[https://www.epa.gov/cati/hydraulic-hybrid-
vehicles](https://www.epa.gov/cati/hydraulic-hybrid-vehicles)

~~~
aidenn0
Why? I would estimate that well over 90% of miles driven in F150s are with no
significant load. In addition while delivery trucks are driven for many hours
per day, most passenger vehicles are not.

~~~
tomohawk
Hydraulic hybrids recapture 80% - 90% when braking as opposed to 20% - 30% for
electric hybrids. Hydraulic hybrids much better fit the characteristics of a
vehicle such as a pickup truck.

------
natch
They said they are going to make an all electric version.

On Hacker News this becomes: “We’re going to make F-Series all-electric.”

Then HN readers (the current top comment) read it as: “We are going to make
ALL F-Series trucks all-electric.”

------
exabrial
I really hope they don't ignore fuel cell technology or other phase change
energy storage systems when they do this. Batteries are not convenient for the
vast amount of their consumers in non population dense areas. (For those of
you from cities, an F150 is a status symbol everywhere else in the USA).

~~~
nradov
Fuel cells appear to be a dead end. There's no efficient way to produce
hydrogen, unless electric power becomes far cheaper than it is today.

