
Second body cam video of Baltimore cops manufacturing evidence discovered - xbmcuser
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/07/second-body-cam-video-of-baltimore-cops-manufacturing-evidence-discovered/?amp=1
======
DomreiRoam
Police have a monopoly on legal violence and Society act like their words are
more trustworthy in a courtroom. It is not acceptable that it is not
counterbalance by a high level standard and scrutiny. Police work is difficult
and I admire people that have commitment to protect and serve but we can't
give a blank check or a get out of jail free card for criminal or unethical
conduct.

I think we see in a lot of communities that the police and other public worker
are no more trusted and I think we will see the raise of alternative actors to
fulfill the gap. Such actor could be criminal groups like mafia and terrorist
group that then can use this to build up their base.

So I think it is immoral to allow this and I think it's stupid in
Machiavellian or realpolitik way.

~~~
pavel_lishin
> _I think we will see the raise of alternative actors to fulfill the gap.
> Such actor could be criminal groups like mafia_

Isn't this one of the reasons for the huge proliferation of gangs? Certain
communities know that the police won't help them, so they establish their own
organization.

~~~
ErikVandeWater
I've heard of this happening in Mexico, but not in the USA. Do you have a link
about communities establishing gangs as a substitute for police/roided up
version of neighborhood watch in the USA?

~~~
QuotedForTruth
There is an interesting documentary called "Check it" about a gang formed in
Washington DC to protect its gay members from violence. They aren't exactly
neighborhood watch though in that they only really look after their own
members and are involved in plenty of other illegal activity.

Although it is obviously not the only motivation of gang members and gangs,
protection from violence is part of why people seek these groups out.

------
po
A lot of progressives were pro-body-cam in the wake of Black Lives Matter
protests but from my view, unless they are accompanied by very strict protocol
rules (probably at the state or federal level) they simply increase officer
optionality.

If the officer can decide what to record, what to to submit in a report, if
the lens is dirty or covered, etc... it really is very tempting.

They certainly have helped cops put away very bad people and they certainly
have put pressure on cops to follow official protocol but they're not a
panacea if not regulated tightly. For example look at the protocol proposals
of Campaign Zero here: [https://www.joincampaignzero.org/film-the-
police](https://www.joincampaignzero.org/film-the-police)

~~~
moomin
IIRC the Campaign Zero people were talking about this right at the start.
Letting possible perps view the footage to get their story straight is
particularly egregious.

~~~
wavefunction
As far as I know, the investigating officer would take a statement from a
suspect at the time of arrest. So there's no opportunity for a suspect to "get
their story straight."

In fact, these cameras offer the opportunity to verify the statements of
officers, witness and suspect against whatever is captured by the cameras,
which is a net positive.

~~~
LeifCarrotson
A potential problem is that the officers would get an opportunity to verify
and practice their story based on the camera footage, while the suspects would
not.

A prosecutor could establish that the suspect's memory of the situation is not
completely correct. Meanwhile, the police officer would have a fantastic,
(almost photographic!) memory of the scene. The prosecutor could then ask each
about something that wasn't captured on camera. The police officer claims he
saw the suspect commit the crime, the suspect claims he did not...who is a
jury going to believe after that?

~~~
hammock
Don't give a statement to the police.....

In court you be be able to see the tape

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xbmcuser
I come from a developing country where we know the police are corrupt. And all
our elders tell us that if the cops ask you to open your car boot you get out
of the car and open it for them so that the police don't get a chance to plant
evidence (mostly to blackmail and get bribes). The only difference I see is
that American cops do it to pad up their arrest numbers and shows that
performance based policing without concrete controls is useless.

~~~
squarefoot
Private prisons also need constant influx of inmates to keep profits high,
therefore the system has no incentives to lower the crime rate. If there are
not enough new criminals, they must be created, and planting evidence is one
way of achieving that goal.

~~~
dmix
How are private prisons incentivizing politicians to write new laws or stop
other laws? Are you saying there are people who have invested in prisons who
are lobbying for tough on crime policies in order to fill their prisons with
people? Do you have examples of this? Can you even get wealthy enough running
prisons to have much influence in congress?

As far as I'm concerned this doesn't have to be the case for me to be critical
of private prisons and I'm otherwise generally libertarian for most issues.
One of the things government _should_ be doing is handling criminal justice
and running prisons should be a part of that IMO.

I don't see much utility in letting private organizations run them, there's no
real competition and 'success' seems merely a matter of a) political
connections or b) offering the lowest price. Prisons should be focused on
reforming criminals and treat them well, so a low budget hyper price-conscious
system sounds like a negative incentive to me. The cost of criminals on
society is high so giving appropriate resources for handling them should be a
priority.

If the US want's to reduce their massive prison bills they should reduce their
massive number of criminals.

~~~
maxfurman
You said it yourself, those who profit from running private prisons lobby
lawmakers to support their business - and private prisons are in fact
massively profitable. Here is a Washington Post article about the influence of
the prison industry on Congress -
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/04/28/...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/04/28/how-
for-profit-prisons-have-become-the-biggest-lobby-no-one-is-talking-
about/?utm_term=.3cc68ea5ee08)

~~~
dmix
I wasn't entirely dismissing that it was happening. I just assume it's more
hyperbole than reality that the 'private prison industry' has much influence
of criminal justice laws. But I see that that there are a few occasions where
this too is also being realized as a negative incentive.

This just further adds to the larger, more potent, argument against them. That
the typical benefits of privatizaton are largely non-existant in this
scenario. I really don't see the value of privatizing such a sensitive and
serious government responsibility. Simply because it's far from a true
marketplace.

I doubt many libertarians are pushing for these prisons either. Even the Koch
brothers were awarded by Obama for their justice reform work to reduce
incarceration rates.

Removing people from being able to work, taking away kids fathers, hurting
their long term employability, and sending them to a 'con-college' doesn't
help society at all from a purely economic perspective. It should be the
absolute last resort for the worst criminals instead of the standard practice
even for non-violent crimes.

It sounds like it's more of the domain of big government republicans who love
defence industry style privatization like the countless companies getting rich
off of NSA contracts with marginal ROI and limited oversight.

The real underlying problem here is a tough-on-crime prison culture in the US.
This should never be a potential 'growth' industry. This can only happen in
the US due to their high incarceration rate which far outpaces other
countries.

If you kill this obsession with harsh prison sentencing and yearly flood of
new laws you'd also stop this industry from being an attractive space for
investors to back lobbyists. Likewise killing private prisons seems like it
would also help reduce this culture.

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1dundundun
At some point in the (very) near future, we'll all be forced to realize that
the deck is stacked against you if you're black in America.

It's just one of those inconvenient truths.

~~~
bjpbakker
Not just in America I'm afraid. I live in The Netherlands, and see this
hppening at large scale against any non-white people.

As a white male I feel that all I can do is to share this injustice all I can
and hope others will become aware (which so far sadly seems not to really
happen).

~~~
the-dude
Which city? As a white male myself I was apprehended this year for no
particular reason at all ( Groningen ). Excuse for apprehension: I declinded
to show my ID for no reason at all.

~~~
bjpbakker
> Which city

Many times I've seen "public" ID checks in Amsterdam (especially those in
subways) targeting just non-white people.

> Excuse for apprehension: I declinded to show my ID for no reason at all

Yep it becomes more and more a "comply or your guilty" culture. Not going well
IMO.

If it's sometimes bad for white people, I only try to imagine how horrible it
must be for people who are discriminated against (by public authorities) on a
daily basis.

~~~
ensignavenger
Does Amsterdam require citizens to carry ID with them all the time? When I am
out around my home town but not driving myself (using public transit, walking,
or rding with friends/family) I often don't carry my ID with me. (I am in the
US). If asked to show my ID, I couldn't comply even if I wanted to. It seems
strange to me to expect people to have their ID with them at all times.

~~~
logfromblammo
Even US cops get stop-and-identify statutes wrong. They vary by state, but in
states that have them, you are only required to identify yourself if you are
the suspect of a crime, and stating your name and address is sufficient--a
government-issued photo ID card is not required.

Fast forward to all those YouTube public-accountability activist taking
photographs or video of the local cop shop from a public sidewalk, to be
eventually arrested for failure to identify, or trespassing, or jaywalking, or
loitering, or vagrancy, or resisting arrest.

Knowing who you are and where you live is necessary for the criminal justice
system, but the same info may also be used to intimidate those who commit no
crimes, but become inconvenient to those in power. Even the act of demanding
identification may be intimidating.

As such, Netherlands citizens may wish to push back against the state's power
to identify anyone at will, for no readily apparent reason. It's bad enough
when the law is on your side and the cops overreach anyway; I can't imagine
how bad it could be when the cops start to overreach and the law allows them
to go even further.

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mschuster91
The solution for officers not wearing/messing around with their cams is
simple: require full-on bodycams, and if there is even the slightest
allegation of police misconduct - either the officer has his bodycam enabled,
or guilt is automatically assumed.

~~~
pc86
I like how your response to some police officers assuming the guilt of
everyone they interact with is codifying the assumption of officer misconduct.
The presumption of one's innocence doesn't end because of their occupation.

~~~
mschuster91
> I like how your response to some police officers assuming the guilt of
> everyone they interact with is codifying the assumption of officer
> misconduct.

Police, in my experience, are rarely better than your next random street thug.
US cops routinely shoot people (especially PoCs are walking targets), German
cops love racial profiling (Hamburg, Hafenstraße - look on Twitter), beating
up left-wing people (last seen at the police riots in Hamburg, G20) or
cooperating with neo-Nazis (e.g. Freital terror group, but also the NSU
terrorists had their "helpers"). Yes there are good cops, but they are rare.
Most eventually succumb to the authoritarian system and what's called
"Korpsgeist".

~~~
Mithaldu
The last video i saw of german police "attacking" left wingers was literally
police officers gently lifting them up and away from a slowly moving car.

I'm a socialist myself, but if you want to do anything good for the left, make
sure you get your stories very straight.

~~~
mschuster91
> The last video i saw of german police "attacking" left wingers was literally
> police officers gently lifting them up and away from a slowly moving car.

Certainly, some events at G20 were exaggerated. I agree with you that this is
bad - the problem is that there's so much material about cop misbehaviors that
it cannot all be faked/exaggerated.

I have seen police attacking clearly visible, free standing journalists with a
water cannon. Police attempting to shoot a cameraman down a roof with a
watercannon. Police attacking a medic convoy transporting an injured person
with watercannons. Police illegally using rubber ammo (it's not allowed by
Hamburg police law).

And this is "just" what I have seen at G20. What I have seen and personally
experienced at other demonstrations, especially in Berlin and Munich, I could
literally write a book about.

German police don't carry name tags, only some carry number tags (in NRW, the
requirement got dropped just short after G20, actually!), and next to no carry
body cams. Bavarian and Federal police at least carry the number of their
group on the backpatch but numerous other countries don't carry any
"individual" mark. They are not investigated by independents, but by other
cops - and even if they are investigated, only the really high media profile
cases actually end up in front of a court. They are above the law and act like
so.

------
kelvin0
“I think you play in the dirt, you get dirty.” \- McNulty

~~~
sageabilly
Yeah, I've seen this happen with a good friend of mine I went to high school
with. Super good guy, nerdy, smart, always wanted to be a police officer-
hated the corruption, wanted to make a difference right? In the 10 years he's
been on the force he's gone from beat cop to detective to State FBI Special
Agent, and his thinking (illustrated on Facebook) has gone from blasting NWA's
"F&$K The Police" to posting pictures of himself all suited up in his FBI gear
_complete with skull and crossbones patch_ running around in the woods
"Looking for perps". He's got gold skull and crossbones grips on his service
weapon. In his mind it's all "Ninjas and Pirates" but that, coupled with his
descent into the thinking that "If you weren't guilty, you wouldn't run, and
if you aren't guilty, you have nothing to fear from the police" is _scary_.

~~~
iamtew
“You can’t change the system from within, it will only corrupt you.”

~~~
fundabulousrIII
When you look into the abyss the abyss looks into you. Right? You have to have
the self belief and fundamental aim to make things better or leave it to
beaver.

------
tryitnow
Not much is going to change. The police can do this because they are
represented by a union. And those unions are allied with other unions and
together they dominate the Democratic Party. So the Democrats won't do
anything about police abuse of power. Of course, Republicans won't because
they like to be seen as 'tough on crime.' Since neither political party is
capable of challenging the police unions nothing it likely to change.

------
honestoHeminway
Bodycam should activate at random and not tell that to wearers.

~~~
w458cmau
Is it not always actively recording and it's just that it overwrites once it
is about to run out of space unless footage is marked for read-only?

~~~
sgk284
The batteries only last a handful of hours so officers turn them on as
necessary (also most police unions lobby for this ability). It's unfortunate
but it's the current reality.

~~~
dghf
So how do they, as the article says, "retain footage 30 seconds before an
officer presses the record button"?

~~~
honestoHeminway
The permanently record, but do not permanently store. So if a button is
pressed, they store 30 seconds of pre-recorded footage.

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sebleon
> The [video of manufacturing evidence] one is from Pueblo, Colorado, in which
> an officer staged a drug-find in a vehicle. Charges were dismissed against
> the suspect, but no public action was taken against Pueblo Police Department
> Officer Seth Jensen.

Sigh.

~~~
metaobject
I never understood how it was legal for these officers to carry drugs around
(in their pockets? trunk?) for the purposes of planting evidence.

Shouldn't they face possession charges? Unless they are transporting newly
acquired evidence that is associated with a documented investigation to the
police station for storage they shouldn't be allowed to carry drugs around.

~~~
criddell
Just to be fair, the police car and all the property in the car should be
seized under forfeiture laws. :)

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sogen
Oddly enough that's where The Wire (2002) is set.

~~~
Hasknewbie
The Wire's creators were a local reporter and a former cop, and the series is
praised for its realism, so there's nothing odd about that: their series was
just about problems that existed in real-life Baltimore.

If anything, they only made these issues better known through their work.

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MrBlue
How is arstechnica.com blocking me from clicking on the embeded video and
having it open up on youtube.com?

~~~
BoratObama
Click on the the link to the non-AMP version of the article just below the
headline and then click on video to go to youtube.

~~~
metafunctor
One more reason to eschew AMP.

~~~
verytrivial
I'd love to know how to do that without eschewing Chrome altogether.

~~~
metafunctor
I don't use Chrome (on iOS or MacOS) much. I also use duckduckgo instead of
Google as my default search engine. I almost never encounter AMP pages.

