
Office comparison: 37signals vs Zappos - wlll
http://thinkvitamin.com/web-industry/37signals-vs-zappos/
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frisco
I wouldn't want to work in Zappos's office. It just doesn't look appealing to
me at all. On the other hand, the 37s offices feel _cool_. The Zappos offices
are Office Space-like cubicles covered in random crap. The 37s offices send a
very different message; if you're going to work in an office (hopefully, not
all the time), I'd much rather be in that environment.

I think it comes down to this: the style of the 37s offices (like many other
designed offices) is more like what I see when I think of the "future". And
I'd much rather be living and working in the future than cubes covered in
random crap.

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dmix
I'd also imagine the people who work at 37s are generally introverted
developer/designers while Zappos is packed full of extroverts.

I'd expect different environments for both.

Does the Zappos engineering dept look the same?

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billpaetzke
Also notice the different gender makeup:

* only men are in the 37signals pics

* only women are in the Zappos pics

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zachallaun
37signals' office seems to say, "You're in, you're out." Fried has, on
multiple occasions, suggested that offices are the downfall of work. You're
more productive in your natural environment. Their office seems to reflect
that: You come in to work, quickly and efficiently, and then you leave and
head home to get your real work done.

In contrast, Zappos' office seems to say, "You're already home."

[edit] It's also worth pointing out that these companies are employing very
different people. Zappos has a huge focus on customer service, and their
"people friendly" office reflects that. The engineers and designers at
37signals, however, very well may appreciate the minimalism and simplicity of
their environment.

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mikeryan
To be fair, I'm pretty sure those 37signals pictures were taken right after
they moved in. Imagine what cubicle hell Zappo's would have looked like when
they first moved in.

It would be interesting to see any changes made after a year or so once
everyone has settled in a bit.

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jasonfried
They were, you're right. The office will change over time as we settle in.
It's already a lot more lively than those pictures showed. We have plants and
fresh flowers and art and books and some other things starting to make their
way into the space. Time takes care of the personality.

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rhizome
I really like that 37S chose actual chalkboards.

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x0t
What about dust?

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rhizome
Canned air should be as fine as it is for other kinds of dust. Chalk is
basically inert, so there are no worries about affecting electronics or
anything like that.

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acrum
Zappos would drive me crazy. I have been in an environment like that. It's
"cute" at first, but then you realize you're just living in a messy corporate
cubicle. It really inhibits work if your job is something such as development
or design, in my opinion... just too much visual noise.

37signals office seems virtually distraction-free. If you need groups of
people to work together efficiently in an office environment (that is still
comfortable and not a cubicle farm), this is the kind of space works well, I
think. Because they have so many remote employees, I think they want their
real "office" to be Campfire anyway.

There is a significant difference in philosophy with how the companies
operate, I think. Zappos wants people to be comfortable (or 'at home') where
they work, and 37signals wants people to work wherever they are comfortable.

~~~
primigenus
"Zappos wants people to be comfortable where they work, and 37signals wants
people to work wherever they are comfortable."

What a great way to summarise the difference between the two.

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petercooper
The Pixar offices take an interesting middle ground. They have the flair and
joy of Zappos but avoid the generic cube aesthetic:
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/veerles-blog/461586084/>

While I like 37signals, their sterile office would drive me nuts, but so would
the extreme state of disarray at Zappos'. The Pixar model keeps the craziness
slightly organized and not all in view at once.

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dereg
I love these offices. They have the sophistication of the 37signals and yet
without the sterility. There's warmth and inspiring comfort.

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subbu
Apples to Oranges. Zappos is a support oriented culture whereas folks at 37s
need a lot of quite time. I can't imagine Jamis Buck writing all his awesome
maze algorithms while surrounded by balloons and tents everywhere.

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ssharp
It's definitely apples-to-oranges.

If you're a phone/email CSR, you might enjoy being in a slightly more
stimulating environment because you're daily job duties are less stimulating
and more mundane.

If you're working on software, you might enjoy the options of quite space,
cleanliness. For a company like 37signals, where design takes such a focus,
having a nicely designed and organized space might help inspire the company's
output. Also, 37s had previously blogged about holding events in their office,
so their physical presence must gel with their online image.

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davidw
The Zappos pictures make me think of someone getting called in "we need to
talk about your flair".

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rhizome
It seems apparent that everybody is striving to emulate Tony. I would also
venture that their hiring process filters for people amenable to that culture.
Could be a distinction without a difference, but some of those "streamers
tucked into the dropped ceiling" look a little forced.

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AlexandrB
I like the Zappos approach - in theory.

However (and maybe I'm a control freak) the imposed clutter of the Zappos
office would drive me nuts! No place to think and concentrate because of a
constant barrage of visual noise.

Similarly, in theory I also like my roommate.

But some of the mess he imposes on my life drives me mad.

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richcollins
_Something tells me that if someone at 37signals put up a huge green and blue
tent around their desk, they wouldn’t get a high-five in the hallway. The
unspoken message to 37signals employees is this: “Don’t touch. Don’t put your
stamp on this office.”_

Or maybe the 37signals employees had the good taste to pass on turning their
workspace into a kindergarten classroom when given the option.

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yatsyk
Zappos workspace is bad from programmer point of view. Open space with lot of
crap, phones on tables. May be this workspace is good for communication,
someone could feel more happy in this workspace and so on but it's terrible
for hacking. It looks like this envirement encourage interraptions. 37s office
much better for productive work.

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petercooper
You say that, but Zappos' offices look more like most hacker personal spaces
I've seen (just replace streamers with cables and turn the lights right
down..) I know more geeks who live in a mess than those who adopt a stylistic,
minimal approach. But maybe I know too many Unix nerds.. ;-)

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binarycheese
You are confusing gamers with programmers

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petercooper
That's not the case (though admittedly most of them were _also_ gamers ;-)).
Most Unix beards I know live in, well, not exactly filth but "jumble."

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topcat31
I visited the Zappos office while I was in Las Vegas recently (proof:
<http://dis.tl/haPmaA>) and must attest to how unbelievably amazing and
awesome their offices are. The culture and morale is simply breathtaking.

That said, I think that it's tied much more closely to the culture than to
just the nik-naks that litter the office (though clearly they are a part of
it).

I like this post and it's good to get a look at the two offices but it would
be great to get more of an understanding of HOW the office environment affects
the office culture.

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antidaily
_Your office ≠ your product_

Not sure this is true. I think it has to do with culture. I'm sure a lot of
the adjectives one would use to describe 37signals's office could also be used
to describe the company and/or their products.

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arrel
What a reflction of the attitudes of each company towards their customers.
Zappos is all about coming down to the level of their users and having fun
with them. 37Signals has finally built their ivory tower, and they want
customers to think of their product as a door into that tower.

If they were political parties, Zappos would be the FDR Democrats and
37Signals would be the Libertarians.

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hsmyers
Having worked in two disparate offices; a Capital One debt recovery phone bank
and Electronic Arts; both of which follow the Zappos model, I'd say that if it
doesn't get in the way of production be it code or money collection then why
waste time on non-productive issues. To me this is much the same as insisting
on suits for programmers...

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rhizome
I worked at EA as well and it's exactly what I thought of when I saw the
Zappos offices.

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unfug
Office design should reflect what the employees in the office are trying to
accomplish. As a developer, all of that crazy stuff in Zappos' office would be
a huge distraction to me. I haven't checked, but I'd be a little surprised if
developers' cubes/offices were as over-the-top at Zappos as those for their
customer service reps.

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run4yourlives
Look at the markets they sell to. 37Signals needs to remain professional and
appear competent, because they routinely buck established business "truths"
and this draws attention.

I wouldn't listen to a person telling me they have a better way of conducting
business from inside a green tent. Sorry, I'd think they were an immature
kid...

...which is exactly why Zappos' approach works. They distribute a hip, cool
product to people based on other businesses' reputation. The only thing they
need to do is ship something once the right way to convince a retail customer
they are competent enough to take a pair of shoes (or whatever) from point A
to point B.

People have very different expectations with regards to the deliverables of
the companies. The office space simply flows from that.

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nimrody
Interesting to compare these with
[http://positivesharing.com/2006/10/10-seeeeeriously-cool-
wor...](http://positivesharing.com/2006/10/10-seeeeeriously-cool-workplaces/)
\-- especially Pixar's office which is downright beautiful.

Personally, while I'm not so fond of the total mess Zappos's offices look
like, I find 37s a bit too tidy, cold and uninviting.

Bottom line - it is more important who are your neighbors (assuming you are
working together) than what the place looks like. Smart and friendly coworkers
are priceless!

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zlopid
I think the styles are more similar than Ryan makes it out - both have control
over their environments, but in different ways. At Zappos, they have standard
half-height cubes and they control their environment by sticking things on the
wall and hanging it from the ceiling. At 37signals, I recall that they
designed that office - they had a deeper influence on their environment than
Zappos. Same thing, but a different style, and each one very much demonstrates
the company culture.

~~~
tomkarlo
Okay, but if you are hired after the new offices were designed, you now have
no input into the design and no "right" to customize the environment. I"m not
a fan of the Zappos office (it would drive me bonkers) but I do think folks
should have a right to express their personality in their work environment so
that they can feel more at "home". 37signals doesn't just look clean, it looks
severe, sterile and unwelcoming - I remember a lot of dot-com marketing firms
having offices like that in New York (anyone else remember the shark tanks at
KPE?)

As I look around my work space right now, it's reasonably "business-like" but
it's also obvious there is a lot of WORK getting done - white boards covered
in post-its and sketches, index cards with stories tacked to the wall, etc.
Those artifacts allow our team to cooperate better, but they're also part of
how we "own" the space and make it ours.

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chopsueyar
I would like to see what the 37signals office looks like after a year.

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djwebb1977
Both have positive notes but I think if the two offices bred the offspring
would be closer to what I consider ideal. There is a lot of noise with all the
flair at Zappos but the 37s space lacks fun & individuality. So something with
the clean aesthetic of 37s with a shot of Zappos individualism would bring it
home for me.

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kellishaver
I think if I had to work in the Zappos office, I'd probably develop at least
one nervous tic by about lunch time. I don't see how anyone could concentrate
to get actual work done, with all the visual and likely auditory distraction
of such a cluttered, bright, flashy space. I don't just get distracted if
there's a lot of clutter around me, I actually get depressed, become extremely
introverted and irritated, and the part of my brain that cares about stuff
just shuts down. I'm the same way if I'm around a lot of noise. I probably
have some sort of sensory issue there.

My home office is quiet and free of clutter, but still warm and inviting, with
about 8 different adjustable levels of lighting, depending on my mood. It took
me a while to get it the way I want it, and it is by no means fancy, but it's
the most comfortable work environment I've had so far.

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scrame
This seems like it is because 37signals is a primarily design driven company,
while zappos is more of a backend engineering company.

The design folks, like the article says, are more concerned with a clean
presentation and tidy appearance, the programmer style is more concerned with
being a place that they can feel is surreal and comfortable enough that they
can just work there continuously and feel comfort in the geekiness.

That being said, I work squarely in the latter camp and am glad that I don't
feel obligated to take part in the corporate sponsored 'whackyness'! Maybe
because I don't like feeling obligated to be in the office more, than
necessary. I like having random stuff at my desk, but this reeks of Office
Space style flair.

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mhartl
Zappos and 37signals hire (for the most part) different kinds of people for
very different jobs. I, for example, would be much more likely to work for
37signals, and I also find their office much more appealing. I don't think
that's a coincidence.

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d0m
I guess 37signals hires employees that like the design of the place. i.e.
personally, I really like how 37signals is designed and I wouldn't even think
of putting something weird on the wall.. so in a way, 37signals let me design
the place how _I_ want it to be (clean and empty). So, by working in a clean
place, I control my environment by letting it stay clean.

In contrast, working at Zappos's office, how would I be able to control my
clean environment?

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mannicken
37signals office is similar to left-brain: ordered, clean, and structured.

Zappos office is right-brain oriented: a bunch of spontaneous stuff
everywhere.

What this actually means is that Zappos overload and "shutdown" right brain,
making left brain talk to people (verbal communication is the left brain's
job).

37signals overload the left brain, making right brain hack software and come
up with out-of-the-box solutions to problems.

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c2
I don't really care what my office looks like. The most important thing to me
is the team I'm working with followed closely by the things I'm working on.
The appearance of the office space is so far down the list of my priorities as
to be negligible.

As long as I'm excited to go to work, the actual appearance of the office
makes very little difference to me.

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elai
37 signals looks like a library, especially with the study booth style desks
at the sides of the windows and the carpet style. The wide hallways add to the
public lobby effect. I love the hardwood flooring, the central walls and the
meeting rooms. The phone booth rooms with rubber sound dampening panels are
genius

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hasenj
I've worked in a zappos like office. The problem is not the mess on the
cubicles -- I was ok with that. The problem: it was too noisy. You could
hardly concentrate or think. And the work sucked. The technical infrastructure
was horrible.

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bguthrie
Interestingly, Rackspace--another very service-oriented company--has an office
culture very similar to Zappos. I wonder if it's common to more companies
highly focused on customer support as a differentiator.

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joeybaker
Summary: "Look how different these offices are. But wait, it turns out the way
offices look doesn't matter."

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cfontes
Awesome post ! thanks for this !

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mkramlich
shoe sales vs programming

big difference in type of people needed and what those people need to be happy
and productive.

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mkramlich
summary: too much flair vs not enough

(Office Space movie reference. Hilarious must see.)

