
Bad sleep 'dramatically' alters body - sheri
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21572686
======
jacques_chester
Here's a little PSA:

If you have:

* High blood pressure

* Depressive or angry episodes

* Wake up tired no matter how long you've slept

* Loud snoring

Take a sleep study. You may have obstructive sleep apnea.

I got it badly enough that sleeping for 14-15 hours daily did nothing for me.
I didn't realise it at the time but I was on track to die, tired, at about 50.

Today I sleep with a little CPAP machine that keeps my throat open by pumping
air into my mouth. It's changed my life enormously.

~~~
michaelbuckbee
All extremely good advice, but the whole process of getting a CPAP machine
drives me bonkers (at least in the US).

A CPAP machine is a couple hundred dollars [1] (certainly less than a
thousand) and everyone I've ever spoken to about one has either instantly, the
first night of using one had a tremendous dramatic improvement in their sleep
or it was sort of 'meh'.

Given the costs and extremely minor risks (we're talking about a small fan
that blows air into your mouth) you would think the diagnostic process would
be to just give you a CPAP machine and see if it helped.

However you HAVE to go through a sleep study to get one, and you have to get a
prescription to even buy one online. All of which means thousands and
thousands of dollars of extra health care expense with very little to show for
it.

1 -
[http://www.cpap.com/customize.php?PNum=2507&PAID=0](http://www.cpap.com/customize.php?PNum=2507&PAID=0)

~~~
npsimons
Agree with most everything, but when I bought a CPAP machine many years ago, I
don't recall needing a prescription (I could be forgetting). I was deemed
"borderline" by my sleep study, so my insurance wouldn't pay for it. I went
ahead and bought a portable one online for a couple hundred, and it worked
like a charm. Funny thing is the place I bought it from sent me the "nurse's
manual" with instructions on setting pressure and "under no circumstances let
the patient see this manual" :) I've since lost some weight and had
septoplasty (to treat chronic sinus infections) and don't need it, so I
donated it to my brother-in-law. If your doctor won't prescribe it, you might
need to find a new one. Sleep really is one of those three pillars of health.

~~~
jacques_chester
I managed to luck out in finding the "full" manual for my device through some
googling. Basically you hold down some unrelated buttons and voila, you can
adjust pressure yourself. As I've lost weight I've periodically lowered it.

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oyvindeh
One thing is for sure: Reading stuff like that won't help me sleep any better.

I have no problems falling asleep, but I keep waking up after five and a half
hours. For periods, I can easily go back to sleep, but when I worry about
waking up, I often can not got back to sleep.

I've just started reading "The Happiness Trap"[1]. It's about accepting the
ups and downs of life as normal, but at the same time it tells how to handle
negative thoughts and feelings better (without getting rid of them). A former
Buddhist monk recommended it to me, and my girlfriend (who is a psychologist)
also liked it. The title kinda sucks though. Let's see if it helps.

[1] [http://www.amazon.com/The-Happiness-Trap-Struggling-
Living/d...](http://www.amazon.com/The-Happiness-Trap-Struggling-
Living/dp/1590305841/)

~~~
ralph
I recently read a news article that said making roughly in the middle of a
night's sleep is natural and you should just expect to doze off again rather
than worry about it occurring.

~~~
oyvindeh
Yes, I am aware of it. It's called segmented sleep[1]. Some think it is
natural, but not everybody agrees[2].

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segmented_sleep>

[2] <http://www.supermemo.com/articles/sleep.htm#Myths_and_facts>

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guylhem
Has anyone noticed how people who do not sleep a lot "look old" - I mean with
wrinkles, spots, etc.

Look at investment bankers - their chronological age does not seem to match
their physical appearance.

This article gives a potential explanation - bad sleep changes protein
expression, but I'm curious about the visible outcomes.

Hopefully there are many sleep deprived founders, and well rested lifestyle
entrepreneurs (sorry for the cliché!) reading this thread.

Do people tell you you look younger/older than what you are? And how old are
you??

~~~
droidist2
Good point. They always say that about Presidents, they age like 20 years in 8
years.

~~~
eCa
Obama 2004 (43 yo):
[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/9...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/9657962/Barack-
Obamas-life-and-career-in-50-pictures.html?image=8)

Obama 2011 (50 yo):
[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/9...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/9657962/Barack-
Obamas-life-and-career-in-50-pictures.html?image=47)

Not much hair color left..

~~~
username111
Well that is a time where a lot of people lose their hair color.

~~~
liber8
People lose their hair color due (primarily) to a lack of catalase, which
normally removes hydrogen peroxide. It is now thought that much of this work
is done during sleep. So, assuming this theory is true, a lack of sleep (an
effect every president has mentioned) does cause people to go gray.

~~~
KMag
That makes sense. Several of my friends in college developed grey patches in
their hair that went away shortly after graduation.

------
michaelgrafl
In the past few weeks I've been shitty to my girlfriend a few times after a
night of bad sleep (interrupted sleep and more dreaming than normally).

I figured out that I sleep a lot better - especially when sharing a bed with
her - when I omit drinking alcohol, even small amounts.

So maybe that's worth a try for people suffering from light sleep.

~~~
jberryman
I've found this to be true. I also find I sleep more soundly and feel much
better in the morning if I drink a big glass of water before bed too sort of
"tank up"; otherwise I end up waking several times throughout the night. Oh,
also the amount of light in a room is huge for me, which I didn't realize
until I moved and had thick curtains installed.

~~~
svachalek
Or vice versa. I sleep a lot better when I time things such that I sleep with
an empty bladder.

------
pkorzeniewski
I had a period in my life when I was going sleep in the morning and waking up
at 3PM, sometimes sleeping for more than 12 hours. It wasn't devastating so
much to my physical health as to my mental health. Sleeping too long is as bad
as sleeping too short, not to mention going sleep in the morning for several
days in a row. Sleeping properly really is essential for good physical and
mental health, don't sacrifice it just to 'do more'.

------
Kaivo
I used to sleep from 9:30 PM to 7:30 AM when I was in High School and I never
had to study a single bit. I just remembered what I was taught in class
without any trouble and aced most of my classes.

When I reached college, I got a late night job and started to sleep from 4 to
6 hours a day for about 2 years. My grades dropped badly; I couldn't remember
what I was hearing in classes, I wasn't able to stay focus for as long and I
ended up failing classes on my last semester.

It's probably the things that I fear the most from the lack of sleep, not
being able to use my brain efficiently when I'm awake.

I remember reading about the fact that the first few hours of sleep are mostly
there to physically rebuild the body, while the last hours of sleep are
helping mostly with the memory. I don't have sources and considering the
current article, I doubt it's as definite as what I read a while ago but might
be interesting to read about more extensively.

------
moondowner
Worth reading: <http://www.supermemo.com/articles/sleep.htm>

------
septerr
WHat stood out to me from the article -

"The findings also tie into research attempting to do away with sleep, such as
by finding a drug that could eliminate the effects of sleep deprivation."

Every now and then I get upset with myself for sleeping too much, not
utilizing all my time after work to work on side projects and learning new
skills. I wish I could stay up till late AND wake up early or be able to do
away with sleep altogether (and the need to eat)! How I wish I could do away
with sleep!!

Recently after a few days of skimping on sleep, I had a few days where I let
myself sleep enough and noticed how much more alert I felt during the day, I
had forgotten that feeling! For now I have accepted that I need to make time
for sleep. Side projects, new skills will just have to be done at a consistent
even if a slow rate.

[EDIT: fixed typos]

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Xcelerate
Just what I wanted to read after pulling two all nighters. So how do periods
of no sleep followed by equal periods of very long sleep affect the body? And
to what extent, if at all, are these changes reversible?

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gdilla
I was diagnosed with OSA, and chose to use a newish alternative to surgery or
CPAP, the provent strip <http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/07/14/sleep-apnea-
fix/> I keep ripping it off in my sleep and can't tell if it's working.
Ultimately, they said I would get used to it. You need a prescription and
after getting used to it, you have to go in for a follow up sleep study so
they can see if it actually works for you.

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KeyBoardG
While I don't doubt the findings and won't argue the results, a group of 26
people is hardly a study. Give us the results of 260 or 2600 people, from
different backgrounds.

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nakedrobot2
This might explain why new parents look 5 years older after 1 year of having
their first child (in my admittedly anecdotal sample, including myself)

~~~
colmvp
As a single guy, I didn't realize how much sleep a parent loses until staying
with my cousin and her newborns. It's like being a soldier constantly living
on the front line.

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larrys
Suggestions of things that works for me.

Custom made ear plugs AND ear lube when you insert them. Custom ear plugs are
under $100 can be made by any audiologist or ENT. Much better sound reduction
than the ones that you buy that are throwaway. The ear lube by the way creates
an additional sound barrier and adds to comfort as well.

Good "bucky" brand eyshades. White noise (a fan) going.

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johnm
For those who've tried cpap machines and struggled with the masks, try the so-
called "nasal pillows". They are a lot easier to get a good, consistent seal;
are much smaller and so don't trigger that "omfg their's an alien on my face"
freak out in the middle of the night; and they allow for more variety of
sleeping positions.

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j45
Wow, all the years I didn't sleep like a rockstar. Used to be able to stay up
2, maybe 3 days without an ounce of caffeine and maybe a quick 15 minute nap
here or there.

Looking back, how much of that time I really needed to spend awake, I don't
know. You get more effective with age.

------
darxius
So how much sleep SHOULD I be getting then? I assume it's based on a few
things (age, weight, etc).

~~~
awjr
Well your genes are different to mine so it comes down to your body type.

Personally I'll go to bed at 1AM and naturally wake up at around 7:30AM. I
usually fall asleep quite quickly and don't usually get woken up by any noise.

For you this might be a nightmare.

I know people that try and get into bed for 10:30PM. I tried that once. I was
awake at 4:30AM. I basically need 6 hours sleep. More just doesn't work for
me.

The problem is more that people with sleep issues don't ever feel like they
have got a proper nights sleep. It can affect them deeply. You need to get to
the root cause of the issue.

As an aside I went through most of my early life with sleep apnia caused by
large tonsils. Luckily on a skiing holiday with some friends, we hit it off
with a bunch of nurses, who heard very vocally from my friends about the
nightmare that was sleeping in the same room as me and the choking noises I
would make. 5 weeks later I had my tonsils removed as they were huge. It was
life changing. I'd spent most of my early 20s half asleep.

~~~
mratzloff
You tried that once... but changing your sleep schedule is not something that
happens literally overnight.

For awhile I was going to bed at 10:30pm and waking at 4:30-5am. It took
several weeks before I could train my body to sleep until 6-6:30am. As a
result I feel more alert in the evenings.

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changdizzle
A lot of people have mentioned sleep studies here - any idea on the process to
obtain one in the US? Do I need to go to my general physician or can I call up
a sleep study center?

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markprovan
I've been stressing out a lot about Uni recently, maybe getting a few hours
sleep a night (last night I got an hour). Never have I felt worse in my life.

~~~
_stephan
If there's no other way to reduce your workload, get a certificate of illness
from a doctor and delay some of the work or examinations or whatever is
stressing you out. Don't ruin your health. If exam preparation causes you so
much stress that you can't sleep or focus anymore, please see a doctor,
there's a good chance the doctor can help you with coping with the stress.

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sev
I wonder if the opposite is true as well, where good/proper sleep dramatically
alters one's body.

~~~
Mz
No clue, but dramatically altering my body has equalled sleeping better, fwiw.

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Tycho
Did humans evolve to sleep more than 6 hours at a time?

~~~
lukevdp
Considering that a lot of people do sleep more than 6 hours at a time... yes

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moron4hire
are the changes reversable?

