
Today is The Day We Fight Back - brokenparser
https://thedaywefightback.org/
======
sinak
All of the people who built the site and the banner are volunteers who met on
HN across various threads, and not members of any of the advocacy orgs or
companies listed on the site. We're really interested in getting feedback on
how future campaigns can be better, and happy to discuss some of the decisions
we made. The non-profits involved did all the legal and organization lifting,
and this is a great opportunity to donate to the EFF and Demand Progress if
you haven't recently.

Likely the most impactful thing you can do right now is to add the banner to
your own site and ask the companies you work for to do the same. We've tried
to make it as easy as possible to add the banner; you can find all the options
(including a Cloudflare app and Wordpress plugins) here:
[https://github.com/tfrce/thedaywefightback.js](https://github.com/tfrce/thedaywefightback.js)

Pushing for technical solutions to the surveillance is also really important.
Friends at Fight for the Future are launching a campaign along those lines as
soon as this one wraps up, and there are a lot of open source projects (e.g.
the great work done by [Whisper
Systems]([https://whispersystems.org)](https://whispersystems.org\))) that
deserve attention.

But legislation and technology need to work hand in hand for things to change
in the long run. Even if we have decent technical solutions, legal measures
can easily limit the scope of their success (see Lavabit).

~~~
mkl
(My comment here is about the international version of the site - the USA one
is much clearer in its purpose.)

One crucial piece of information I haven't been able to find is what happens
to the names and email addresses people enter. How does filling in those boxes
amount to taking action?

I am strongly opposed to mass surveillance, but thedaywefightback.org doesn't
seem to be communicating successfully how exactly it is going to help. If it
is doing something that will truly help (which seems likely, but I can't
really tell), that needs to be clear in its message, and it isn't.

~~~
dannyeff
Hey mkl,

So they'll be a shorter version of this on the main site soon, but I can spell
it out at greater length and more informally here. (I'm EFF's International
Director, btw)

The short answer is that you're signing your support for a set of 13
principles on the application of human rights to communications surveillance (
see
[https://necessaryandproportionate.net/](https://necessaryandproportionate.net/)
), that were worked out last year (pre-Snowden, actually) by a coalition of
technologists, privacy activists, and legal scholars.

The long answer: We've been using this language to push the idea in
international venues and among key lawmakers in various countries that mass
surveillance (as well as a bunch of other practices conducted by the NSA and
other spooks, including corruption of crypto standards and backdoors) is a
violation of existing human rights standards.

This is important internationally because if the NSA gets away with its
current behaviour, it'll establish a norm that such surveillance is okay for
any government to conduct. We need to push back against that norm.

To do so, diplomats, policymakers and others need language and arguments to
back that up.

The Principles give them that language in a familiar context (and we're
working together to provide more detailed arguments and other legal guides).
It has found favor among politicians, experts and other influential people I
think partly because the smarter ones are genuinely worried that pervasive
surveillance really could undermine their own societies -- they recognise what
it could do in the wrong hands as much as anyone else.

In providing that leverage, it helps to convey that it's not just a bunch of
domain experts that think forbidding mass surveillance is a bad idea, but that
an increasingly large number of citizens find it abhorrent. That's what the
signatures will do. It really makes a difference in this arena, because so few
obscure technical documents have hundreds of thousands of supporters :)

I'd encourage anyone who wants to understand better how we're trying to get
all governments, not just the US, to craft better surveillance legislation to
read the full text of the principles at
[https://necessaryandproportionate.net/text](https://necessaryandproportionate.net/text)
You can also ask me questions at danny@eff.org . It's a long haul project, and
we're conducting it alongside legal actions in the US and abroad, shoring up
and disseminating crypto tools, and other non-policy defences. But it's pretty
amazing to get unanimity with hundreds of privacy groups on some basic
principles with which to start building proper, 21st century, surveillance
law.

~~~
lifeisstillgood
A (unofficial and probably wrong) precis of those 13 Principles:

1\. Legality - privacy restrictions must be prescribed by law.

2\. Legitimate Aim - What you want to break privacy for must be to support
laws.

3\. Necessity: We cannot (reasonably) achieve the aim without breaching
privacy.

4\. Adequacy: Listening to your phone calls must reasonably allow us to
achieve the aim.

5\. Proportionality: Don't listen to everyone when only some will do.

6\. Competent Judicial Authority: Any breach of privacy must be authorised by
Independant, capable judges.

7\. Due process: Who follow a clear process

8\. User notification: and tell you you are being watched (unless that might
hurt the Aim)

9\. Transparency: We get to see the metadata on their phone tapping

10\. Public oversight: and a few of us get to see everything not just the
metadata

11\. Integrity of communications and systems: backdoors are not allowed, if
you are bugging us legally, you dont need a back door

12: Safeguards for international cooperation: No playing arbitrage with
different jurisdictions

13: Safeguards against illegitimate access: and secure your stuff.

I hope those help

------
BobMarin
Here is great post from reddit by SomeKindOfMutant:

"Right idea; wrong methods. Let me explain. An email to your legislators may
result in a form letter response and a phone call to the office may amount to
a tally mark on an administrative assistant's notepad. But, if you want to get
their attention, a letter to the editor published in one of your state's 5-10
biggest newspapers that mentions them specifically BY NAME is the way to go.

That is the crucial thing to know--the rest of this comment is an explanation
of why I know this is true. I know this because, when I interned in the D.C.
office of a senator one summer, one of the duties I shared was preparing a
document that was distributed internally both online and in paper format. This
document was made every day and comprised world news articles, national news,
state news, and any letters to the editor in the 5-10 largest newspapers
within the senator's home state that mentioned him by name. I was often the
person who put that document on his desk, and it was the first thing he read
every morning after arriving to the office.

I began to suspect that this was standard operating procedure because several
other senators' offices share the same printer in the basement of the Russell
Senate Office building, and I saw other interns doing the exact same
procedures that I was involved in. Since the internship, I've conferred with
other Senate and House employees past and present and determined that most--if
not all--offices use essentially the same procedure.

Edit: I don't mean to suggest that calling or emailing your legislators is
worthless. It isn't--it's just not the most effective route to getting their
attention. However, if you don't have the time to writer a letter to the
editor, please consider at least calling or emailing them. In fact, there's no
reason why you couldn't use multiple tactics by calling them, emailing them,
and writing a letter to the editor. If you would like to go the call or email
route, tools to help with that can be found at
[https://thedaywefightback.org/"](https://thedaywefightback.org/")

~~~
GigabyteCoin
I would bet that the sheer fact most every competant reporter has come across
a website promoting thedaywefightback.org today that most every newspaper in
the nation will be talking about it tomorrow in some regard.

------
suprgeek
Why don't we (as the hacker/programmer community) also "fight back" in the
meaningful & legal way that is our core strength?

Resolve to push for encryption if there is any PII data in an app that you
work with especially if it is a e-mail/mobile/social app. at scale

Refuse to work with/at NSA until their policies change

Refuse to participate in any committee/standards body, conferences, with NSA
employees (or their cohort companies who have willingly forsaken the public's
interests)

Encourage non-tech folks to adopt stronger privacy practices

etc etc...

~~~
cLeEOGPw
> Refuse to work with/at NSA until their policies change

Don't agree with this. Boycotts relying on cooperation and trust between
unorganized members are doomed to fail and only hurts those that take part in
such boycott.

~~~
ElDiablo666
There's also such a thing as having a conscience. I agree that organizing and
solidarity are necessary for effective political action but let's not discount
the power of resistance against the moral turpitude of the day.

~~~
mjolk
I'm not going to jail due to fighting the government about disclosure of the
users of my dumb smartphone game. It's fun to play the moral high ground, but
let's not pretend we're the bastions of society because we encrypt user data.

------
motters
My little fight back are some instructions on how to provide your own internet
services, including encryption.

[http://freedombone.uk.to/](http://freedombone.uk.to/)

It's not ideal, of course, but in the short term since there seems to be no
political appetite for relinquishment or meaningful reform then technical
mitigation strategies - if they can be sufficiently popularised - may help to
reduce the harm resulting from mass surveillance.

Ultimately the solution is both political and technical. When politicians or
other public figures make claims that what's going on is "not mass
surveillance" or try to imply that collecting metadata is unimportant then
they should be challenged.

~~~
mikegriff
That's a good little installation document. I'm going to give that a go with a
raspberry pi when I get home.

How up to date are the instructions?

~~~
eliasmacpherson
It's not little - it's quite comprehensive. Excellent job done. It's explained
quite well in a very enjoyable writing style.

I think anyone who knows enough to add a banner to a webpage can work their
way through the document.

It's a good idea to promote it as an alternative because from the outside at
least, it seems freedombox has lost momentum since the privoxy release, even
though the idea is sound.

~~~
mikegriff
I didn't mean to belittle it all, I'm well impressed with it. Nicely explained
for the most part and I saw afterwards that it's up on github too so it's easy
to send in corrections for it.

I had to look up Friendica and Movim to see what they were (I'd never heard of
them before), it'd be nice to have links to the respective homepages, so off
I'll go and add them in.

~~~
motters
Pull requests for corrections or installation sequences are welcome.

~~~
mikegriff
No problems, I can see one or two bits that I think could do with clarifying
(not least to get rid of emacs :P ). I'll have a go at it this evening and
take notes.

~~~
motters
The particular editor isn't all that important. You could just use nano or vi.
I don't think any of the instructions contain anything really Emacs specific.

I happen to use Emacs and the source for the site is an org-mode document,
which makes editing it very easy. Exporting it as HTML is a few key presses.

~~~
eliasmacpherson
As a vi user, i'd be willing to leave the great war to one side and give nano
the thumbs up, many people not used to the console struggle to quit out of vi
or emacs while being competent with sublime text or notepad++. nano works
better for them.

------
BrandonMarc
I'm amazed that nobody's mentioned the biggest weapon we have against the
political class:

Primary elections.

 _Not_ the final elections - by then the incumbents are in place and it's too
late ... for national office, incumbents resign / die more often than they're
beat by an opponent.

Primaries are where the action is, for two reasons:

* it's the one time an incumbent is most vulnerable

* very few people vote in primaries compared to election time, so each person's vote makes a bigger difference

Want change in D.C.? If you primary just 10% of the critters there, you'll get
their full, undivided attention.

Yes, emails, letters, and phone calls have an effect. So does K Street.
Politicians care about their re-election and money / resources to make it
happen, so in the game of influence, I (a normal taxpayer with neither the
desire nor the ability to bribe them) will always have the disadvantage.
That's why I'd rather fight outside their game - in the primary race.

\----------------------------------------

More info:

Yes, these links are from a tea partier perspective, but guess what? The tools
they describe work for everybody just the same.

[http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2011/09/13/storming-
the-...](http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2011/09/13/storming-the-castle/)

[http://www.campaign4primaryaccountability.org/](http://www.campaign4primaryaccountability.org/)
One of the organizations in this space; there are others out there.

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSib8MfaQLQ](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSib8MfaQLQ)
Leo Linbeck describes the general strategy and how it can work.

~~~
crassus
The way to measure your political effectiveness is how many people have lost
their jobs. We're not making real progress until Diane Feinstein and Barbara
Boxer are unemployed, just like we aren't making real progress on IP law until
most patent attorneys are working traffic tickets.

The Tea Party began by running primary challengers to GOP incumbents, and they
remain a powerful force today. It turns out that politicians listen when their
friends lose their jobs.

~~~
declan
Yep. The thing is, though, that a _lot_ of Republican primary voters support
the Tea Party's message of lower taxes, limited government, and a return to
constitutional norms -- to the extent that they're willing to toss out an
incumbent, which loses DC seniority and risks having an even-worse Democrat
elected instead. That's trading short-term costs for long-term benefits.

It's not yet clear whether R and D primary voters care enough about NSA
surveillance to vote out incumbents on those grounds alone. (What about
abortion? Environment? The need for higher or lower taxes? Gay rights?
Firearms? Etc.)

I suspect that NSA revulsion among R and D primary voters is insufficiently
strong to make displacement a real threat. Look at SOPA author Lamar Smith's
easy cruise to primary reelection victory in Texas hill country -- after being
feted by those SOPA-loving liberals in Hollywood and opposed by Reddit's
TestPAC. Smith won nearly 80% of the primary vote. BTW, Feinstein, one of the
most prominent NSA loyalists, isn't up until 2018.

If anti-NSA activists really want to have a tremendous political impact, they
should unseat Rep. Mike Rogers, who beats out even Feinstein in his defense of
warrantless surveillance. But National Journal last year said Rogers is in a
"safe congressional district that’s poised to keep reelecting him until he
decides to retire": [http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/the-reason-mike-
roge...](http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/the-reason-mike-rogers-won-t-
run-for-the-senate-20130603)

So good luck with that.

~~~
dllthomas
There are a lot of Michiganders uncomfortable with surveillance. Maybe some of
them can eat a longer commute and move to Lansing?

------
davidw
I support this effort 100%, but... there's something a bit off about the
messaging that I can't quite put my finger on. Perhaps "the day"? This is
going to be a long haul, not like killing SOPA or some other bad bill. This
system is entrenched, and has a lot of support. It's going to be a long fight,
and it's going to be a slog.

For those in the US, though, please do _call_ your representatives.

~~~
KiwiCoder
If I had to point to one thing it would be "the day".

* It's clearly going to take more than a day to achieve a positive outcome in a system that was established over many decades

* What happens when "the day" ends?

* Since the action is framed as "the day", this is how the media will report on it - including _outcomes_ of _the day_. These outcomes, whatever they are, will be packaged with _the day_ and thus more easily dismissed than, say, "the movement" (which continues to grow) or "the tide" (that is turning) or "the big cleanup" (which must be repeated regularly)

~~~
dkrich
I think drives like these (whether intended to or not) result in heightened
awareness of a problem, not necessarily a fixed outcome.

If something like this took place once a year (where sites protest mass
surveillance) it would assure that people continue to discuss the issue
instead of slowly forgetting about it.

Labeling the effort "The Day We Fight Back" has a certain "shock" value that
intrigues people. If instead it were marketed as "let's talk about long-term
strategies for dismantling mass-surveillance" support would probably trickle
in.

After all, signing a petition or putting a url on your site isn't really
"fighting back," it's a protesting.

------
fidotron
I honestly think this is naive at best, and at worst useful idiocy on behalf
of the companies dependent on the illusion the aim is even achievable.

Mass surveillance, if technically possible, is going to happen. Therefore make
services where it isn't possible. If that screws with your business model
you're part of the problem.

~~~
Shivetya
I do not put much faith in it simply because I bet the majority of people who
are behind this voted for the guy in charge and will vote for the next person
that same party put up all because they cannot think rationally.

As in, you vote for a candidate who is protected by identity politics you will
never have a voice. You vote for a politician who adheres to the D or R and
your just doing nothing.

~~~
BrandonMarc
I wish I could upvote this 10x.

------
easy_rider
It seems to be the focus is a lot on the NSA .. The NSA just happens to be the
best at what they do. The Brits and Germans are pretty good too. As a Dutchman
I know a lot of the HUMANINT stuff here relies on hijacking SQL databases and
metasploit, and what is provided from other sources. But everyone is trying to
catch up and make friends with ..

We basically need a publicly audited restructuring of our entire communication
infrastructure. The problem has grown to such proportions that we now know
that we can not trust governing institutions like NIST, or chip manufacturers
like Intel for example. What makes matters much worse is that the U.S.
government will just keep playing the same card of supposed reforms, while
operations will not cease, but instead will do a illusive dance to more black
on black policies.

At the same time, public interest in the matter has already massively dwindled
due to over saturation in media coverage. While the cointelpro is working hard
to dismiss everything as essentials to provide us with a (sense of) security
for the global fight of terrorism and crime, apathy will prevail.

Also I'm referring to U.S. policies a lot, since they are the ring leaders and
are influencing international policy and operations at the highest level.

But obviously this is a problem across many if not all governments. The nature
of intelligence agencies is to gather intelligence by any means. This will
never change, never disappear unless we get full transparency on government.
Which will never happen due to concerns for national security. And we know
where that road will lead to.. ask how Bradly Manning is doing.

So no, I'm a bit too informed, and have become way too cynical to be counting
on a revolution any time soon :(

------
pirateking
It is a positive day for the freedom of information and I am happy to support
it, make the calls and emails, and tell friends about it.

I also think framing it as a one day campaign where the “fighting” involves
passive action at the individual level is not a game winning strategy. It is
still a great rallying signal though, and its effects have already gone beyond
the single day, and for every person too lazy to change their avatar back,
they will carry on for a good while longer in some way.

However, the motivation for the average person to even think about engaging
such an overwhelming and invisible force as mass surveillance is very close to
zero. For those who are willing, involvement seems to be passive (donating to
a more capable organization, hitting a like button, resharing links), bursty
(waiting for organized events to rally around), or demoralizing (low
visibility of opponent, lack of support from uninterested peers or locals,
extremely slow and indirect feedback loop for any action).

For these reasons, I hope that a campaign modeled as a constantly running open
source game engine emerges, because that is actually just the bare minimum
required for victory - to at least continue playing the game as long as your
opponent is playing, no matter whether you are winning or losing at the
moment.

A game model will at least make undeniably clear that there exists a thing
worth playing for (your personal information perhaps), that there are actual
opponents who can and will take this thing from you, and the visibility and
mechanics needed for you to take action to protect that thing.

~~~
squozzer
I would say for most of us a more accurate phase is, "The Day We Decide To
Fight Back."

------
einhverfr
As far as I am concerned, fighting back for a day is useless. The NSA is
probably going to find they have already lost _this_ battle because we now
trust their co-conspirators a lot less. It's the slow, relatively minor
pressure over time by billions of people that will change things.

But the real danger is with the next battle. I think we are going to see a
major showdown over legality of encryption generally within the next few years
with a push for legally required back-doors (since it will be harder to
guarantee cooperation unofficially and there is almost certain to be a lot of
effort into guaranteeing better security). That's the one we should be
steeling ourselves for.

So I won't be participating in this "The Day We Fight Back" not because I
think it is unimportant but because I think it is too important than to
relegate to a day of action.

~~~
sinak
I really, really don't think anyone is trying to say that this is the /only/
thing you should do.

Many of the people organizing this campaign worked on any number of different
campaigns over the last 6 months (Stop Watching Us, Restore the Fourth
rallies, a rally in DC, Defund The NSA), so we'd be the last to say that this
is the only day you should take action.

Rather, this is a single day for all of us who care about the isuee to rally
round and do something to reach a critical mass of action that gets noticed on
capitol hill. And also to help educate people who've tuned out of NSA stories
by reiterating all the things the NSA is doing to erode privacy.

~~~
einhverfr
> Rather, this is a single day for all of us who care about the isuee to rally
> round and do something to reach a critical mass of action that gets noticed
> on capitol hill. And also to help educate people who've tuned out of NSA
> stories by reiterating all the things the NSA is doing to erode privacy.

To be honest, I am jaded enough to wonder how much politics actually matters
here. The NSA isn't going to stop spying on us because Congress tells them to.
It isn't even clear that Congress knows enough about what is going on to
really oversee it. And if they don't, then what? We get some feel-good
legislation which purports to solve the situation but really just plants the
seeds of the next great abuse. That's exactly what happened with FISA.

The current battleground _is not on Capitol Hill._ it is in the insistence
that we make companies pay for what they are doing with the NSA and insist on
the development of secure alternatives.

The next battleground (as we make gains in private industry) will be in
Capitol Hill, and believe me, when it comes, we will need business interests
to be on our side.

------
lpolovets
I think it's interesting that there are ~200k Twitter/Facebook shares at the
time of this comment, but less than 10k calls/emails. The message seems to be,
"I think contacting legislators is a great idea! I hope some of my friends do
that.."

~~~
davidw
It is currently 4:27 AM on the east coast of the US. Most Americans are
sleeping at the moment, and I doubt congressional offices are open.

~~~
renang
Afaik NSA is/was gathering information worldwide.

~~~
CalRobert
True, but as congresspeople are elected by the people of the US they would
only be keen on hearing from them (well, that's the idea at least - in reality
they don't seem to worry a lot about what a small but informed contingent
cares about)

~~~
davidw
Indeed: they only take calls from their own constituents. I, as an Oregonian,
will be ignored if I call a representative, from, say, Iowa.

------
weego
Hash tags to show support? History is fucking laughing at us today.

~~~
aaronem
History's not the only one. This is just adorable. I'm sure everyone involved
feels like a really, really good person, though.

~~~
illumen
People are trying to get the law changed in the USA. It needs a show of
support to help get this done.

It's much harder work than writing snarky one liners on some internet forum
for nerds whilst you sip your expensive coffee.

This is the day to ask them to stop spying, and to ask our leaders to make
them stop spying.

~~~
tunap
I mean no snark here, just clarifying my interpretation of the OP's point:

The only vote any of the mass majority has is where we spend our dollars &
labors. These kinds of movements make everyone involved feel good and I do not
deny this campaign is for a cause the participants feel is just...I agree in
principal. However, joining another mineable database feels like doing the
same thing that we are talking about curtailing, with the added potential of
making participants part of a larger target if anyone threatened decides to go
on the offensive. Legislators only listen to the hoi polloi when reading
scripts in front of cameras or they are drumming up votes for the next
election. Even more pertinent, the corporate environment that exists in the
Western world has morphed to influence our every waking moment and would never
allow an organized collective get too big or gain too much traction before
well-publicized character attacks and disinformation fill the airwaves(or the
startup is 'incorporated'). The status quo owns the media(even Reddit), the
'tubez(backbone) & most western governments(lobbying is corruption, whatever
the laws have been tailored to say), thus they have the loudest message and
currently control all infrastructure in this global society(think 'good ol
boy' network rather than conspiracy theory). The antagonists and would-be
'movements' of late are diminishing from the public consciousness faster than
other entities can make noticeable ripples: Wikileaks, Occupy Wall Street,
Manning, Snowden... This is how group dynamics has worked since the dawn of
tribalism. Adding sentience to the equation has potential to improve the human
race above limbic compulsions but so far has only worked to increase the
polarization to meet the desires of the controlling interests(most powerful?
influential? smartest?).

I am sentient and have principals I believe in. These principals require me to
make sacrifices sometimes, and that includes how I earn & spend my monies. I
walked off a job in October that would have multiplied my income by a factor
of 10, problem is they asked me to endanger myself, compromise my principals
and break some really well-founded national safety codes, never mind the
organizations' 'professed' safety policies. Instead, I'm living hand-to-mouth
in a shack making a small fraction of my potential earnings and
reading/commenting on HN. C'est la vie, I have made my choices and still sleep
really well at night. Of the few dollars I make, I spend them just as
judiciously as I earn them. There are unavoidable expenses in a modern
society; housing, utilities, food. Other spending may seem crucial, but
ultimately distill down to wants or conveniences and I've minimizing or
eschewed those, too; ISP, TV signal, formal education. Then, of course,
there's the disposable income and all that encompasses. How I earn & spend my
money(times a factor of a few billion others), this is what drives the world
economy and this is what I determined I can influence to create or realize
meaningful change within 'my circle of influence'[1]. I must change myself
first in order to change the world. I encourage anyone who reads this to
contemplate doing the same. It's the only way to scale up a paradigm change,
IMO.

PS: I also exercise my own tools that sometimes sacrifice useability in order
to maintain my privacy and spread disinformation to those who believe they
value my privacy more than I do; NoScript/AdBlock/Blender/UserAgent
Switcher/HTTPS Everywhere/bleachbit/firewall monitoring/On+Offline
switch/disposable accounts/disposable emails/old & tired maemo phone, etc...
Even after two decades I still smile when a clerk says "Thank you for shopping
with us today, Mr. Revell"[2].

[1][https://www.stephencovey.com/7habits/7habits-
habit1.php](https://www.stephencovey.com/7habits/7habits-habit1.php)

[2][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_O%27Clock_High](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_O%27Clock_High)

------
dutchbrit
I really like the banner, although, in all honesty, I don't think this will
have any effect on spying. I truly believe that the NSA cannot be stopped by
words alone. People lie all the time. The only thing I think words can do in
situations like this is drive it more underground, and make the NSA lie that
everything is back to normal...

Presidents lie. Politicians lie.

Now, if every American refuses to work 1 day, and all head to the NSA's
office, datacenter (and actually destroy the thing), that'd really mean taking
matters into our own hands (extreme scenario, I know). The NSA knew people
wouldn't like this, but they did it anyway, because nobody knew. We will never
truly have 100% transparency what the NSA is doing. People can no longer trust
them. Period.

~~~
tripzilch
> Now, if every American refuses to work 1 day, and all head to the NSA's
> office, datacenter (and actually destroy the thing), that'd really mean
> taking matters into our own hands

You forget the part where the USA is a militarized police state that, unlike
(say) the Ukrainian government/police _will_ not hesitate to use lethal force
at these people.

Not that it will happen, but if it were to happen, that's what's going to
happen.

Remember the police violence excesses with the peaceful Occupy protest? They
didn't get friendlier in the mean time. The police did, however, get equipped
with more shiny military war toys.

------
acd
Please reply to this message with more applications that you find useful.

Self-host your email and keep it secure and encrypted
[https://www.mailpile.is/﻿](https://www.mailpile.is/﻿)

Project Tox, also known as Tox, is a FOSS (Free and Open Source Software)
instant messaging application aimed to replace Skype.
[https://github.com/irungentoo/ProjectTox-
Core](https://github.com/irungentoo/ProjectTox-Core)

Host your own file sync solution [http://owncloud.org/](http://owncloud.org/)

Torproject anonymous surfing
[https://www.torproject.org/](https://www.torproject.org/)

The invisible internet project [http://geti2p.net/en/](http://geti2p.net/en/)

GNUnet is a framework for secure peer-to-peer networking
[https://gnunet.org/](https://gnunet.org/)

Kali Linux - Linux distribution with security focus
[http://www.kali.org/](http://www.kali.org/)

------
sneak
Nothing on this page effectively answers the single most common response to
mass surveillance:

"Why should I care if they read my emails? I'm not important and I don't do
anything wrong. If it helps them catch terrorists, who cares?"

Until this question is answered clearly and effectively, nobody except all
those splinter groups represented by so many logos will care about this.

~~~
surana90
[http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1fwj66/u161719_t...](http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1fwj66/u161719_tells_us_all_why_surveillance_is_not_ok/)

This somewhat answers that!

~~~
mintplant
It's a post on /r/conspiracy, though. A good deal of people are going to be
turned away by that fact.

------
netcan
Snowden, the NSA scandals and the subsequent political and media responses are
very clear example of our right eroding. But, they are mostly concerned with
the US Government and US citizens.

This is a global fight. The perpetrators and the victims are everywhere.

------
super_mario
So the suggestion here is to "fight back" by asking politely the people who
are abusing you to please stop.

~~~
wjk
Thats what it seems like to me too. Can someone explain how this is not just
another slacktivism thing? Hashtags and banners on a website...

~~~
Trufa
In one day, nothing.

The objective of this is to generate awareness, and it is achieving it's goal.

My mother knows what the NSA is and sees the problem.

The only thing that might get us to a better place is to slowly change
awareness and with it, will start the political pressure.

Why one day? a focused campaign will generate much more visibility.

Think of how fast the zeitgeist has changed for civil right to minorities,
you'd be surprised, maybe in 10, 15 years privacy might be on it's way to
being respected again.

------
aryastark
The Catch-22 is that if I had faith in my fellow Americans, then we would not
be sitting in this deep well of depravity.

If you look at where we are, today, as a nation, how can anyone have hope?
We're a nation that finds it more politically convenient to kill people by
drones than to close Gitmo. We're a nation that, quite probably, kills people
by drones simply because our leader promised to close a prison camp that would
have normally taken said people, but can't now because it would be too visible
and too much of a political issue to have people arriving to a place that is
supposed to be closing. So America invents remote-control murder from the sky.
You can't deny that we're a crafty, ingenious people.

Today we know that George Carlin was not cynical enough.

------
dllthomas
Just heard a report on Democracy Now, where the EFF spokeswoman interviewed
raised some important points that shouldn't be overlooked regarding privacy
rights and when searches take place, &c, but seemed to accept Obama's
assertion that they are only looking at collected data when there is cause.
From my understanding, that is false. It is probably true that they are only
_supposed_ to look at data when there is cause, but the reports of instances
of "LOVEINT" \- spying on (current, former, or potential) romantic partners -
seem to indicate more access, especially the fact that the instances of such
abuses as have been found were self-reported (so other misdeeds may very well
be going undiscovered).

------
midhir
Great initiative, I've shared & supported it. But is compiling a database of
(full) names and email addresses of internet dissidents really wise given that
that's the very medium these organisations are abusing?

And would it be enough to deter a significant number of people from putting
their details in and showing support?

------
Yuioup
Why do I have a feeling that this is like changing your Facebook picture
because you think it might make a difference?

~~~
mrweasel
I get the same feeling.

From the website: Governments worldwide need to know that mass surveillance,
like that conducted by the NSA, is always a violation of our inalienable human
rights.

Sorry, but the governments of the world already know this. Obama, Merkel,
Hollande, Cameron or Putin isn't going to stand up proclaim: "I'm sorry, we
didn't know".

It's not that we shouldn't do anything, nor do I have the answer as to what
we're suppose to do, but this, "The Day We Fight Back", is pointless. Changing
your Twitter icon to green didn't stop the war in Libya, the Internet
"Blackout" is already forgotten and just pissed people of, it didn't
encouraged anyone to resolve or change anything.

~~~
dllthomas
_' Internet "Blackout" is already forgotten and just pissed people of, it
didn't encouraged anyone to resolve or change anything.'_

SOPA and PIPA were defeated after several legislators changed their stance,
purportedly in response to phone calls surrounding the blackout.

~~~
BrandonMarc
Yes, SOPA and PIPA were defeated with much fanfare and attention, while some
different laws _doing the same damn thing_ were passed just a month or two
afterward.

Victory?!

~~~
dllthomas
Victory in the battle, not the war. But the ability to win a battle is huge.

~~~
BrandonMarc
True ... I just hate when a won battle draws attention away from a hidden,
lost battle over the same ground, because in a way you're worse off if you
think you won when you really lost.

~~~
dllthomas
Agreed. We need strategy as well as tactics, and we need to keep our attention
trained.

------
shrnky
What disturbs me is not once was Obama's image shown in this video. More than
anyone he is the person pressure should be put on to start change(no pun
intended).

Before we knew the extent of surveillance we saw images like this of Bush:
[http://www.funny-games.biz/pictures/648-vampire-bush.html](http://www.funny-
games.biz/pictures/648-vampire-bush.html)

I never had to go looking for the imagery above during Bush's tenure it was
everywhere. Where is it now for the current administration?

~~~
tripzilch
Obama is the Smiler.

------
davidw
Since you guys are reading this, a _huge_ thanks for putting the time and
effort in to organize this. Here's hoping you are able to keep that up for the
long haul.

------
goldbeck
The suggested script is kind of awkward if your representative is already
supporting the USA Freedom Act. However, even if they are already in support,
it seems important to let them know you have their back on this, and that your
future support will continue to be contingent on their stance on surveillance-
related issues (if indeed it is). I know not of these things from a political
angle, but the following seems reasonable to me

1\. Start the call by asking if they're cosponsoring of the USA Freedom Act.

2a. If they are not, use the script, it makes sense.

2b. If they are, thank them for their support of this bill. You can also let
them know how important these surveillance issues are to you and the extent to
which your representative's actions on these matters will affect your behavior
at the polls and in donations.

Just a heads up to those planning to call (please do!). I felt kind of silly
finding out that the first senator on my list was already a cosponsor after
reading through the script, and wanted to save others the minor embarrassment.
It should feel good to call your representatives and express your support for
such important issues!

That aside, this is a really great campaign. Thank you so much to everyone who
put it together and made it happen!!

------
wavesounds
"Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others,
or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and
crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring
those ripples build a current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of
oppression and resistance.”

Senator Robert F. Kennedy, June 6 1966 (South Africa address)

------
sethbannon
FYI as of 11:30am ET there are approximately 5,000 calls per hour going into
Congress right now through this effort. Keep it up everyone!

------
josefresco
I'm going to play devil's advocate here and suggest that if political
involvement is what we're shooting for, robo-calling your representatives
isn't the best way to achieve true reform.

Pissed that the NSA (or insert gov agency here) is running amok? Get involved
in your government, vote out the lawmakers who let/made [it] happen, and
advocate for and vote in representatives who will invoke the change you want.

Appealing to the public in this manor encourages laziness and while it may be
"practical" (as we can't expect everyone to throw themselves into the process)
I don't think it's the best long term solution.

Not trying to torpedo _this_ movement but I cringe whenever I see the words
"script" when talking about invoking political or societal change.

~~~
declan
Can you give us a list of "representatives who will invoke the change you
want?" Are there any?

You are correct, though, that following the DC pattern of "follow this script
while calling your congresscritters" is insufficient. This turns privacy
advocates/Internet users into just another special interest group -- which is
dwarfed by AARP (40+ million members) or the NRA (which managed to defeat
congressional efforts at more firearm restrictions last year despite the most
favorable climate for gun banning in two decades).

The HN community can do better than mere phone calls. Here are some of my
suggestions from 12 years ago:
[http://news.cnet.com/2010-1023-971115.html](http://news.cnet.com/2010-1023-971115.html)

~~~
josefresco
Great article, I enjoy the input from someone who was or is "inside DC" and
isn't looking at this issue purely from a tech/IT angle. I'm not suggesting I
have a list of lawmakers to vote out, just that in an effort to enact
political change we should become _part of the process_ , not just the members
(as you stated so well) of another special interest group.

------
d23
Oh sod off.

The point about things like this is that by raising awareness and getting
people on board to do concrete action, we move the "collective consciousness"
in the direction we'd like to see it go. Imagine if 20 years ago everyone had
that attitude about gay and lesbian rights. Imagine if 80 years ago everyone
had the same attitude about equal rights for minorities.

You people are jackasses. Just because someone can't dedicate their full time
job to fighting this doesn't mean they don't care or are lazy. And even if
they did dedicate their full time job to it, what exactly do you suggest they
do? The first thing that comes to mind to me is that they should start trying
to rally others. Which is, as it turns out, exactly what is being done here.

------
doctorshady
I suppose it's common knowledge now, but a lot of people seem to think a phone
call will get more attention then an email in political scenarios.

~~~
davidw
It's a matter of effort, I suppose... "proof of work" as the bitcoin people
talk about. Clicking a button is less effort than making a phone call and
talking to a person.

------
lazyjones
This is a good initiative, but I still find it depressing that we have to
fight entities operating outside the law or in violation of it, using methods
strictly within the boundaries of the law. It's not a fair fight and it's not
likely to be successful.

------
codex
Ultimately, uses of technology reflect a society's values. Unfortunately, mass
surveillance will be a mainstream value until the fear of terrorism fades. As
frustrating as it may be, all the protests in the world won't make these
values mainstream.

~~~
dllthomas
Consistently, through history, fear of terrorism is what destroys democracies.
We _need_ to make these values mainstream.

------
xradionut
If the organizers really want to make a difference, the site should replace
the words "call and email" with "buy and pay".

~~~
mrweasel
Acutally that would make a lot more sense, having a: "Click here to fund our
own lobbying group".

------
johnjay
Just called my representative of district 7 and told her to support the USA
Freedom Act. Hope more people call.

------
adam12
I get the following message when going to the page to email my legislators:

Heroku | No such app

There is no app configured at that hostname. Perhaps the app owner has renamed
it, or you mistyped the URL.

------
cik
First off, way to go with all of this. While I don't believe in "raising
awareness" in general, I think this is the best way to keep this in the
spotlight.

There's one thing to keep in mind though. I don't think any of us actually
hate the NSA (in particular), or your local version. The piece I hate are the
policies and their implementation. I'm sure that like all organizations there
is some work being done by the NSA/CIA/FBI/KGB.... well maybe KGB was going
too far.

I'd love to see links in this thread to the other ways people are supporting
the struggle, whether it's blog postings, tumblrs, or something else. In that
vein, here's my blog posting:

[https://www.lyricalsoftware.com/blog/day-fight-back-
panoptic...](https://www.lyricalsoftware.com/blog/day-fight-back-panopticon/)

------
wcummings
I think some people are missing the point, this is clearly intended to raise
awareness, nothing more.

~~~
sinak
On the US side it's primarily about creating an opportunity for pro-privacy
legislators. Specifically, the legislative goal is to push through the passage
of the USA Freedom Act with amendments to prevent the NSA from undermining
encryption standards and to protect the rights of non-Americans.

Raising awareness is definitely part of it too, but it's not the main
objective.

------
worldsayshi
I find it a weirdly ironic that a protest opposing government collection of
personal information, such as political affiliation, from opt in data stores
on the internet consist of declaring your political affiliation in an opt in
data store on the internet.

------
sneak
All the logos in the world aren't going to make foreign organizations trust
American companies with their data again.

The blow to trust has been struck. Operating a data processing or data storage
business inside US jurisdiction is now a liability.

It's time to leave.

------
yincrash
I sent an email, but I'm not a fan of the auto-opt-in of the random mailing
list.

------
nicholassmith
Nice to see this is now a link at the very top of HN. Well done to everyone
involved.

------
whitej125
So what I find interesting is that as of 4:38pm EST this page has: * 72,000
tweets * 312,000 FB likes * 21,000 G+ shares

At the same time... there 54,700 calls made and 114,122 emails sent.

The number of social media shares is almost double the number of people that
followed through with the "call to action" here. Why?

If you are publicly passionate about the cause, I think you would do both
(social media share + contact legislator). If you were privately passionate
about the cause, you would just do the later; contact legislator.

But what is your mindset if you share this via social media, yet don't
actually follow through with the call-to-action yourself?

------
mikhael
In my opinion, the front page should really, really highlight the call-back-
and-show-script feature. Sending this out to family and friends, this is the
piece I really want them to see.

------
plg
I'm all for this (fighting back) ... but (and I sincerely don't mean to be
cheeky) but how exactly is putting a banner on your website 'fighting back' ?

~~~
DenisM
The goal here is to get people to call their senators and congress reps to
influence passing the right laws. You can contribute by calling yourself, or
encouraging others, or doing both.

------
stefek99
Question:

What is going to happen with the script after the campaign?
[https://github.com/tfrce/thedaywefightback.js/issues/98](https://github.com/tfrce/thedaywefightback.js/issues/98)

My personal view: I still don't get why it is bad, #pleasesurveilme -->
[https://twitter.com/stefek99/status/433307672838819840](https://twitter.com/stefek99/status/433307672838819840)

------
austerity
Wow, so much negativity here. The whole thing does seem a little
disappointing, but we have to start somewhere, don't we?

Added to our (moderately large) site.

------
Chirael
I like the idea of the "enter your phone #, we'll call you and show you a
script, then connect you".

But I wish there was also a link for a more traditional "here are the phone #s
of your representatives and a sample script".

With the latter, I could just print out that page and find a private place at
work - away from my desk - to make the brief phone call.

------
arca_vorago
The irony to me is that they have two of the worst offenders when it comes to
mass surveillance advertised on the side of the page. Facebook and Google,
despite their attempts to say they weren't aware of the NSA gaining access to
their info, are probably just as much of a threat to privacy as the NSA total
information awareness.

It goes like this: let the private companies run wild when it comes to privacy
violations, and then gobble up all their data via national security letters,
subpoenas, secret taps via NSA tech, and warrants for higher profile stuff and
then only if desperate, and that is assuming an adversarial nature between the
private sector and the government. In fact the C-levels are often directly
approached and goaded into silently and secretly cooperating. (and if they
refuse, ala Quest, they get targeted by the system)

Of course there is the matter that it is governments who will take the
surveillance information and then act upon it, making them the slightly more
evil evil in the room, but that does not negate the issue of private sector
mass surveillance that is for sale to the highest bidder.

I've been one of those who has ranted about the dangers of the NSA since the
late 90's, and now that it's a mainstream issue, it seems to have taken on a
"oh yeah, the NSA is bad! stop that surveillance" kind of hipster social wave
that lacks any kind of detailed nuance or explores the origins and
destinations of this admittedly huge issue.

Yes, the surveillance is unconstitutional. So have been many of the other
activities our American oligarchic powers have been engaged in over the past
decade, including the assassination of American citizens without due process.

All of these things point to a much more deeply rooted issue than simply
"surveillance", namely, that our fundamental governmental structure is in
ruins as a result of a combination of corruption and apathy that has gutted
the already precariously positioned checks and balances system.

Russ Tice has said he held in his hand the wiretap papers for a then hopeful
senator from IL, who happens to now be in the Whitehouse. Are we really so
naive as to think that Obama is clean coming from such a notoriously corrupt
political arena? The intelligence agencies have been using the same techniques
for ages, namely, bribery and threats. Russ Tice has also said he held in his
hands the papers for judges who now sit on the SCOTUS, and FBI whistleblower
Sibel Edmonds has a source who was responsible for vetting potential judges
(up to SCOTUS level), and according to her, he said that anytime a judge came
up clean, he was immediately removed from the roster of potentials. The
implication being that only controllable people are allowed.

The point is that all three branches of government are corrupt and no longer
(if ever, don't mistake that phrase for golden day idealism) functioning as
servants of the people and defenders of the constitution (I wonder what the
legal importance of oaths really is these days, because I seem to be
surrounded by oath-breakers(USMC combat vet)).

And of the three branches, it is the executive which lords it's power over the
other two.

The really sad part is that it seems to be the private sector which lords
power of the executive. This is the trail of breadcrumbs that truly concerned
people need to start discussing, researching, and following. It's very
difficult to do. It's hard to track down the global supranational corporate
structure. I am still often referencing this paper:
[http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/1107/1107.5728v2.pdf](http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/1107/1107.5728v2.pdf)

Oh, and as far as technological surveillance goes, there are two main starting
points. 1) open source EVERYTHING (especially our trackers _ahem_ cellphones)
2) decentralize everything possible. That is how we gain control of our data
back... but that's becoming more and more difficult.

Honestly, I think RMS was simply a man far ahead of his time, and the history
books (if he isn't wiped from their pages) will refer to him as a visionary in
a sea of overly pragmatic corporatists who failed to see the big picture.

I could go on quite a bit about this, but that's where I'll leave it for now.

~~~
BrandonMarc
As I've said before, I wish I could upvote 10x ...

------
throwaway125
Including a third party javascript to protest and spread awareness about mass
surveillance... That seems a little ironic.

~~~
Trufa
It's opensource, check it out:
[https://github.com/tfrce/thedaywefightback.js](https://github.com/tfrce/thedaywefightback.js)

~~~
throwaway125
It being closed source or not isn't what makes it ironic. Enticing people to
include a <script> tag on their website that then makes their visitors
download a .js that will leave an entry in cloudfront's log file documenting
that your users visited your website (via the referrer url) is what makes it
ironic.

------
spazmaster
I'm not getting any feedback in Chrome or Firefox (Mac OS X) that my signature
has been registered... what a shame!

~~~
sspiff
Same for me (Firefox on Linux).

------
gaussdiditfirst
Great to see this being done. I wonder what number of emails a typical member
of Congress must receive before they take note of an issue. Furthermore, how
many emails does it take to sway their opinion on said issue, or are dollars
the only medium that can induce the wild thought of reevaluating one's
perspective.

------
j_k_s
"THE DAY WE FIGHT BACK AGAINST MASS SURVEILLANCE" ... by entering your phone
number and email address. LOL!

------
IgorPartola
Odd. The call count seems to go up and down with every refresh.

Also, when you call the 202 number instead of having it call you, you the
message talks about something related to the trans-Atlantic partnership, not
the NSA issue.

Thanks for putting this together. I called and was pleased with the
experience. Really hope some good comes of this.

------
Killah911
Posted this up on our Meetup Group & sent out an e-mail to ask members to
participate. One person left the group due to this. Funny thing is, she works
for Cloudera!

[http://www.meetup.com/Coders-Hackers-Founders/](http://www.meetup.com/Coders-
Hackers-Founders/)

------
baldfat
It is treat as a "Tin Hat" issue, or a Occupy Wall Street movement. The people
in my circle (several hundred) see this as a non-issue.

We have an issue of education and clear message. Especially how this counters
the Constitution.

Maybe a push for everyone to read "1984" :)

~~~
dllthomas
I think that 1984 references, while apropos, are counterproductive. 1984 isn't
documentary, and it's not prophecy; it's fiction used to make some political
points. It is entirely reasonable for someone to not weight it very highly, in
their assessment of likelihoods in the real world. Those not already
sympathetic see comparisons to 1984 as hyperbole, those making them as out of
touch with reality, and it doesn't help us seem less "tinfoil hat". Actual and
potential abuses, with historical analogue, _should_ be substantially more
important - though precise reaction is hard to judge (can we get some polling
done?)

------
durrrrrrr
Let's all add an external javascript file to our site, that will sure stop the
tracking.

------
exclipy
The privacy policy link (international version) points to a page written in
Serbian. For a campaign all about privacy, really surprised about this. Sorry,
I can't give you my name and email if I can't read your privacy policy.

------
kbar13
I wish the "send email" button is more responsive, or at least shows some kind
of progress. Clicked once and nothing happened so I thought I misclicked or
missed and clicked a few times more, resulting in 6 emails. womp womp!

------
hnriot
I don't see the point, so what if legislation is changed, the NSA and all the
other clandestine agencies will operate outside of the law because they are
untouchable.

Might just as well play flappy bird instead, it will do about as much good.

------
fargolime
I felt compelled to give a fake address for fear of automated reprisal. If the
NSA builds up enough of an anti-surveillance (in their minds anti-American)
dossier on me, I could be added to the no-fly list or worse.

~~~
winslow
If you fear that now just imagine if no changes are made and the NSA & US
Gov't are allowed to continue stomping on your rights. At some point you must
stand up for yourself and others for you may not have the chance in the
future.

If it gets to the point of the NSA adding people to no-fly and/or worse
actions being taken, the situation would become hostile and more dangerous
than the current peaceful political debate.

------
jacquesm
How much traffic can your infrastructure handle?

Would it be too much to ask for an easy to clone repo (github?) that would
allow one to serve the content directly rather than by including some 3rd
party javascript widget?

------
duncan_bayne
Calling it fighting is a bit of stretch, if you're still paying taxes.

------
gkop
I called the three New Mexico lawmakers through the tool, and was able to
reach human beings at all of the offices (Senators Heinrich and Udall and
Representative Luján). Thanks for making it so easy!

------
robotcookies
Asking politicians who have broken laws in secrecy to stop being secretive and
stop breaking laws isn't going to work. The only useful course of action is to
vote them all out of office.

------
rufugee
So...the number it tells me to dial (202) 999-3996 tells me I'm calling to
fight the Fast Track for the Trans-Pacific Partnership. This isn't
related...could someone fix this?

~~~
ncsupporter
The best laid plans. I received that message. I tried to use it anyway. It
successfully connected me to Howard Coble's office (I'm in NC), and I
communicated the message to an assistant. The recording then said it was
connecting me to Richard Burr, but immediately seemed to think the call was
over and said "You're doing great". Finally, it successfully connected me to
Kay Hagan's office, but 5 seconds into her recorded message everything went
silent. That was it.

------
mrcharles
So this is an NSA honeypot to collect email addresses... right?

------
zdrummond
Great idea for the Call Congress feature.... however when I tried it would not
accept my zip code. I hit 9-8- "Sorry we don't recognize your zip code"

------
broabprobe
Man I wish campaigns like this would happen for issues I care more about. For
example, guantanamo bay or climate change or corrupt elections, etc

------
kumarski
Can we be a little more digitally violent in our protest?

For example, crowdsourced black hat hacking bad links to any companies funding
NSA loving politicians?

~~~
lelandbatey
To your call for violence, I make a similar call: let's make sure we don't and
instead adopt a more visible but equally peaceful approach.

~~~
kumarski
so passive. :/

------
theklub
Should be a year of fighting back and it should be 2015 and we should plan the
hell out of it to the point of people fearing it.

------
seanccox
Why not just demand that the NSA to be disbanded?

I mean... does anyone have any evidence to indicate that we need it?

------
chalst
Oh, a flash protest, one that seems to have been announced with a press
release only yesterday and pushed by the EFF just one hour ago.

Well, it is too short notice for me to invest the time to black out my
website, so I will not be supporting this. Maybe there will be a similar
action next year that I will support, if it is better advertised beforehand.

~~~
brokenparser
It was announced here a month ago:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7037548](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7037548)

~~~
chalst
What did that page say back then? I missed that story. I subscribe to several
EFF feeds and I recall nothing about a Swartz anniversary protest.

~~~
SyneRyder
Maybe you're not on the EFF email list or Facebook group? They've been
promoting this for several weeks (actually too much for my liking, so it's
interesting for me to hear that others weren't aware of it).

------
shawn-butler
I would make the source code for the android and iPhone apps available.

------
noel82
Looking at results, it could be: "...the day we step back."

------
veeberz
I used my zipcode in AZ and it worked great.

------
backtojoke
Hilarous, homus lupi est. Homus spy est.

------
kumph
This gave me a chance to collect my thoughts. I sent the following email to my
representatives. Thanks, Sina, for your role in organizing this.

\---

I think I understand what is going on. The folks at the top look at all the
huge centralized information stores like Facebook, Google, Verizon, etc., and
I guess they think, "well, it's gonna get collected anyway, so we may as well
have access to it." President Obama actually hinted at this line of thinking
when initially caught off-guard by the Snowden revelations. Instead of
responding directly, he deflected, suggesting that what we really needed was a
larger conversation about mass collection of data, i.e. not just the
collection by governments.

The trouble with mass data collection, either by governments or private
entities, is that it gives the possessors of such information extreme amounts
of power. Left unchecked, it will almost certainly lead to severe economic and
political corruption. The free market is compromised when a small group of
people can spy on the private communications of executives and other business
people, for example by stealing trade secrets or conducting insider trading.
Meanwhile, democracy is compromised when politically active people, including
politicians and activists, are made subject to intense scrutiny. Since
virtually no one is totally free from legal or moral wrongdoing, the
possibilities for politically motivated blackmail and retaliation are massive.
And of course the data collection has serious chilling effects on free speech
and freedom of the press.

If no course correction is made, the U.S. will become more and more
oligarchic, more and more like China and Russia. This is unfortunate not just
for its implications vis-a-vis individual freedom, but also from a larger
perspective. This century we are faced with a diverse array of extremely
difficult problems: economic, political, social, and environmental. Non-
democratic governments have a historical tendency to fight with one another
rather than cooperate, so it is hard to imagine how we will effectively
confront these problems in the absence of strong democratic institutions.

What worries me is that some of the people in positions of power may actually
believe that this massive data collection is somehow necessary to protect
Americans from terrorism. But it is patently obvious that terrorism is not,
and never has been, a serious threat to the personal safety of most Americans.
Over the past two decades, something on the order of 800,000 men, women and
children have died in car crashes, while around 3,000 have died as a result of
terrorism. If this were a matter of saving lives, we'd be much better off
fighting a "War on Car Crashes" than a "War on Terrorism." If this is
purportedly an economic issue, i.e. the fear that a dirty bomb will go off in
Manhattan and upset commerce, well, the fact is much worse things have
happened (i.e. Hiroshima) and economies have recovered. This perspective may
sound cynical, but in truth it is idealistic. I am not dismissing the tragedy
of the death of perhaps thousands of people, but rather saying that, for the
sake of a free and democratic society, such sacrifice is worthwhile.

The idea that "collection is going to happen anyway, so we may as well have
access" is not unreasonable, but it is ultimately self-defeating. What we need
is real leadership on this problem. Not only is there no strong voice against
mass data collection, but the overwhelming thrust of the government is to
reach its tentacles as deeply into the data gathering machine as possible.
Instead of working to lessen the danger, the government is acting to
accentuate it, amassing and centralizing even more data, and meanwhile using
its media access to legitimize such activities to the public.

Again, what is needed is strong leadership. We need a group of people at the
highest levels of federal power to put up a fight in congress and explain
clearly to the American people why, in fact, we are on a very dangerous road.
If not corrected for, this road will lead to the end of the democratic
experiment, and a very uncertain future for our children. I hope that you, as
my elected representative, will seriously consider taking a stand on this
issue.

------
theklub
Just one day?

------
gesman
Distributed Denial of Misservice Attack

------
pearjuice
Meanwhile in the NSA canteen: "and then they said 'today we fight back' and
this time they REALLY meant it, they even had banners you could copy on your
website!" _massive laughter_

Gotta love slacktivism.

~~~
saganus
And what would be your proposal for an alternative? That is also capable of
involving, if even a tiny bit, the amount of people this idea probably will?

There are potentially a lot of other ways to achieve the same goal, but if we
don't hear them, we can't analyse/debate and decide to act upon them.

Not being sarcastic or anything, but if you do have an opinion on how to
change/make this better, by all means please do so!

------
GrahamsNumber
You want to fight back? Turn off Google services, MSFT services, Facebook,
Youtube, Yahoo, DDG, Reddit, Tumblr, etc. for a day, that'll raise awareness
like never before. But all these companies don't really care, do they? A day's
worth of profit is more important.

~~~
moultano
Of course they care.
[http://www.reformgovernmentsurveillance.com/](http://www.reformgovernmentsurveillance.com/)

~~~
GrahamsNumber
This does not mean they care more than someone posting angry anti-nsa comments
on reddit. It ain't gonna change a thing

------
LambdaAlmighty
I got HN upvote nr. 1337!

That means my petition signature will hold a special weight.

------
Singletoned
Surely this site has been set up by the NSA to harvest the details of everyone
who opposes them...?

~~~
brokenparser
Or perhaps the NSA was set up by the campaign organisers so they would have
something to run an anti-campaign against.

~~~
chris_wot
How do I know you aren't someone from the NSA posting this to throw us off the
scent?

