
Can the European Union Learn from Switzerland? (2014) - trahn
http://tillrahn.com/2014/11/28/eu-ch/
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jernfrost
Switzerland also moved far more slowly than the EU, and waited with common
currency until cultural and political unification had come much further than
EU today. I think one of the authors central themes was the need for
pragmatism over ideology.

I think that is the main problem with the EU today. Too many career politician
with grand visions. We need people more rooted in reality who understand and
respect national differences and don't pretend we are all so dam equal.

To clarify, we are equal in value, but not in customs, expectations and
nature.

I think all Europeans want to be together, but we don't fully trust each other
and that must be taken into account.

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seszett
> _I think that is the main problem with the EU today. Too many career
> politician with grand visions._

I have a lot of things to say about career politicians, but _grand visions_
clearly isn't the first thing that comes to my mind.

> _We need people more rooted in reality_

I know many people who would say that Realpolitik and lack of ideals is
actually what is poisoning the EU.

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jernfrost
I suppose it all depends on perspective. I just don't think the ever closer EU
integration is driven by pragmatism. I think it is driven by grand visions for
a superstate because they have this rosy idea of how nice it would be for all
Europeans to share one country holding hands and singing happy songs.

They don't seem to take any practical considerations to things like there are
countries like Greece which simply hasn't solved the problem of collecting
taxes and spending within means. 100 German economist signed a petition
against Greece joining the Euro, because they said exactly what happened would
happen. Instead the pragmatists were overruled by the dreamers.

The ones who have suffered the most due to these dreamers are the Greeks
themselves. Real love is setting proper boundaries and not just give into
anybody's indulgences.

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JumpCrisscross
> _A solution to more democracy in the EU could be bicameralism as practiced
> in Switzerland - or many other democracies for that matter - as proposed by
> federalists. Here the people of Europe would be represented in one body of
> the legislative and the nations in equal parts in the other._

This is a shockingly good and after-the-fact obvious suggestion. Can someone
help me understand why the Parliament (popular)/Council (national ministers)
structure [1] isn't this?

[1]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_legislative_p...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_legislative_procedure)

~~~
Tomte
We kinda have it: the people are represented in the European Parliament and
the nations in the European Commission.

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saiya-jin
short answer? not that much.

longer - yes it's supremely well working society. society built from single
atomic pieces called citizens. remove/change them, and whole thing will fall
apart like house of cards. people here are given a lot of freedom, hence
responsibility over their lives, ie through direct voting. as we saw with
britain, similar approach clearly fails when tried even in another modern
western country (yes I call it a failure, not because of result, but because
the way whole thing has been done)

I mean, this is the country that publicly voted NO to extend 4 weeks of paid
vacation per year to 6. I don't know a single other place where people would
vote against their own interests (maybe Singapore? but that's not democracy to
start with). And countless other examples.

this country was done via 800 years of struggle through violent events in
Europe, and somehow it remained what it is now. you cannot expect to have this
"national experience" present somewhere else, and randomly copy pasting
something that makes sense here to other place won't work. because of people.
don't get me wrong - I wish it would be possible, but I don't see any way.

~~~
rdrock
Don't get me wrong, I admire the swiss. But attributing a nations success to
higher moral standards of individual people is crazy. The swiss might exhibit
admirable qualities worth emulating but those qualities might as well be the
result of a rich and stable environment the country had over the generations.
That environment was also bought by providing "safe havens for the wealth of
dictators and despots, mobsters and arms dealers, corrupt officials, and tax
cheats of all kinds" and staying equally un-committed to both sides in WW2
when one of them was Hitler is not something to write home either.

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freekh
Good read! Maybe it's my swiss blood but I have been thinking along the exact
same lines this last week.

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known
Internet has been UNITING the world. Hence it's prudent to DIVIDE nations into
smaller countries to protect the interests of Common man.

