
The Clean Farming Revolution - mariushn
http://www.bbc.com/future/bespoke/follow-the-food/the-clean-farming-revolution/
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rmason
There are a number of problems with this story:

1\. Farmers are using chemicals in bulk, they pick them up in 110-240 gallon
containers that include a meter and a pump which are then returned to the
dealership. The number of 2.5 gallon containers of old has been greatly
reduced

2\. He talks about finer and finer sprays. But there is a huge problem with
that and it's drift. Drift over on a neighbors crops too often and your
insurance carrier will cancel you.

3\. I am not certain of the percentage but a fairly large percentage of
pesticides are applied by commercial pesticide applicators, often part of a
fertilizer company or grain elevator. These commercial applicators must be
certified and are held to much higher standards than farmers.

4\. He also talks about a positive and a negative charge or what is called
electrostatic spraying. This has been around a fairly long while. It's had
some success applying fungicides but not that much for other uses.

5\. Lastly he speaks about what he calls vertical farming. People have been
building these vertical farms for a number of years. I've yet to see the
numbers work out so they can make a profit. It's often a high value crop like
fruit or vegetables. For example tomatoes out of season where people in an
East coast city are willing to pay 2-3x as much at say a Whole Foods. Funny
but you never see a follow up story on these farms.

~~~
VBprogrammer
As for vertical farming, there is an interesting video debunking it by some
professor of agriculture. In essence it boils down to the fact that the 1000w
of light applied per square meter by the sun dwarfs all of the other inputs.

Unless we suddenly gain some form of near unlimited clean energy it doesn't
make sense (except for some very limited circumstances like expensive micro-
greens for classy restaurants)

~~~
squish78
I think these experiments are meaningful and fascinating for research
purposes, but they will never be more efficient than nature. The solution to
food security is not to re-engineer the farm, but to return food production to
people, because the most dangerous thing we can do is to consolidate our food
production into the hands of a few ag-tech corporations.

Granted, I'm talking about a cultural shift and you can't force people to
enjoy gardening, but there are some people who are doing incredible
experiments in urban farming which is still mostly low-tech. Even though he is
an extreme example, Rob Greenfield shows what is possible with a typical 1/8
acre city/suburban lot. He is currently experimenting with growing/foraging
100% of his diet in a city.

[http://robgreenfield.tv/foodfreedom/](http://robgreenfield.tv/foodfreedom/)

The biggest shift will be to convince people that turfgrass lawns are the one
of the biggest waste of resources in the modern world, and a silly cultural
relic.

~~~
VBprogrammer
I really like the idea of growing our own food and have intended to create
some raised beds in our garden. I've started taking baby steps this year by
growing some herbs. Turns out that's about 10x the effort I imagined it was
going to be. I think I might have killed a good portion of them yesterday with
the 38 degree heat.

~~~
sametmax
It is a lot of work, but there is litterally an order of magnitude in time and
energy you spend to get the same result, depending of your technic. And when
you start, you usually do it the hardest way.

~~~
pimlottc
Took me a moment to figure it out, but the word you are looking for is
"technique". Unless you're talking about using Lego blocks :)

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tomp
I haven't yet read the whole article, but this seems related:

[https://www.quora.com/How-is-China-able-to-provide-enough-
fo...](https://www.quora.com/How-is-China-able-to-provide-enough-food-to-feed-
its-population-of-over-1-billion-people-Do-they-import-food-or-are-they-self-
sustainable)

It's a description of how China does farming at scale. Some interesting
points: seafood farms (floating in the sea) instead of fishing, sensible
sustainable (or "sustainable") cycles (e.g. fish -> fertilizer -> mulberry
trees -> silkworm -> fish) (they also need aerators so the fish don't
suffocate, and solar panels to power the aerators), massive amounts of
greenhouses (including in places where it was previously impossible to grow
vegetables due to climate), drip irrigation (Israeli technology for growing
vegetables in the desert, saves a lot of water), returning farmland to the
forest (to prevent mudslides).

~~~
rb808
> You know that most Tibetans historically only eat yak meat, milk, cheese,
> and bread? They couldn’t grow anything in such a harsh climate. Only monks
> could have the luxury to eat vegetables. Now it is the solid proof that the
> Chinese government didn’t just destroy temples in Tibetan culture but helped
> them eat vegetables and fruits.

That CCP is just so nice and helpful!

~~~
cagenut
wait if they couldn't grow anything how'd they get bread

~~~
logfromblammo
Rye, barley, and certain amaranth species are better suited for brutal
climates and inferior soils. Tibet mainly grows a strain of barley adapted to
the poor agricultural conditions, AFAIK.

You can process almost any powdered food item flour into something resembling
bread, if you expend enough effort on it. You can make bread with cricket
flour. Even meatloaf could be considered a type of "bread", if you massage the
definitions long enough.

But I'd guess that Tibetans mainly eat barley bread. Rye and barley aren't as
good as wheat is for making leavened breads, but they can make a loaf that
isn't entirely brick-like, if the baker keeps a good sourdough starter and it
gets a lot more rise time.

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artificialLimbs
I can't understand how people can still think that technology is somehow going
to save us from bad agri practices.

The rise of permaculture/regenerative agriculture practices are some of the
revolutions in 'farming' that I believe are what are going to be the basis for
people producing food that are reasonable going forward. Cooperating with
nature instead of fighting it is continually being proven to be the best
practice for growing food from a environmental and deliciousness perspective.

Every time I see an article about farmers having some kind of trouble, their
crops are one massive monoculture. It's not natural, it's not sustainable,
it's destructive for the environment, and that party is going to be over in
the future. Go look at the permaculture forests that people have established
and you'll be shocked at the production, lack of work required (after some
years, of course), and complete lack of chemical/nutrient input.

~~~
tick_tock_tick
People believe technology will solve the day because it has every time single
time so far. As we get better and better it looks like divorcing from nature
is going to be the best approach.

We are going to make to growing all our food in giant box farms.

The simplest and most glaring issue is the Sun itself. Only a few hours a day
for plants. Water is a massive issue! Huge swaths of the earth have very
limited rainfall or access to fresh water. Factory farms can make efficient
use of its water supply rather than watching the ground soak it up. Pesticides
can be used sparingly when the whole environment is controlled.

I'm willing to bet that within 30 years a very large chunk of food grown to
eat directly (strawberries, avocados, oranges, etc) will be box farm grown and
the transition of wheat and corn will have started.

~~~
artificialLimbs
Are you being serious?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

"Only a few hours a day for plants." About half the day is decidated to
sunshine, give or take. It's been this way for ... since plants.

"Huge swaths of the earth..." Don't grow there. Don't live there. People don't
live in volcanoes for a reason. It's too inhospitable. OTO, you could import
your goods via plane/copter/whatever if you're brave. Good on you.

We're already able to grow tropical fruit 1,500 feet up in the freezing Alps
with no (artificial) chemicals/fertilizers/pesticides and effective (natural)
water management. Can't imagine it will be much more difficult in growth
friendly places.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQdCkPR6ZCw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQdCkPR6ZCw)

~~~
spraak
Yes, Sepp Holzer! It's refreshing to see other people, especially among the HN
demographic, to know of work like his and permaculture in general given the
general obsession with specific myopic forms of technology (like to whom
you're replying here); i.e. I still see permaculture as a kind of technology,
just a different kind than what most modern conventional farms use.

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throw0101a
If you have uBlock Origin installed you may not see this, but in the top-right
hand corner there's the text: "In Association with Corteva Agriscience".

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codeulike
Wait what? On a BBC site? That seems very unlikely. I'm viewing it in vanilla
Chrome and there is nothing saying that in the corner.

~~~
CameronNemo
I can confirm it says that in the corner once I turn off ublock origin in
Firefox.

~~~
codeulike
Thats weird, perhaps its a Geo thing. I'm in the UK and the BBC isn't allowed
to carry advertising/advertorials in the UK. Presumably some of the content is
also different.

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rb808
If you like that you'll love the sundrop solar & desalinating tomato growing
plant in South Australia.
[https://vimeo.com/183859356](https://vimeo.com/183859356)
[https://www.sundropfarms.com/](https://www.sundropfarms.com/)

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georgehayduke
This is a really interesting area and problem. When you factor in the extra
food we need to produce to feed a population expected to hit 9bn people AND
the increased demand for a more western diet from a growing middle class in
places like China and India, we need some serious innovation in agriculture.

Another interesting area not covered in the article is genetic engineering
bacteria in soil to fix nitrogen, reducing the need for chemical fertilizers:
[https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2018/11/20/can-genetic-
en...](https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2018/11/20/can-genetic-engineering-
deliver-a-natural-microbial-fertilizer-for-crops/)

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golergka
This scrolling takeover is just awful.

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wisienkas
I think a much better approach would be to look away from using pesticides and
start looking in other directions for doing agriculture

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senectus1
I _really_ want to get into this. maybe even turn it into a business.

So much potential...

~~~
vinceguidry
Have you considered indoor gardening? I've seen a few pics of fairly-dense
setups over the years, might be enough to scratch your itch and work towards
an eventual business.

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jacknews
Very interesting subject, but unfortunately the weird scrolling kills the site
for me on firefox

~~~
heymijo
Firefox user checking in. No problems scrolling here.

~~~
CameronNemo
Firefox on Mac here. Absolutely unusable. I disabled ublocko and umatrix.

