
Kixeye fires four after investigation into allegations of racism - ujeezy
http://venturebeat.com/2012/10/04/kixeye-fires-four-after-investigation-into-allegations-of-racism/
======
tptacek
Well, that sucks for the 3/4 of HN commenters on the Kixeye thread who came to
the conclusion that the contractor's writing style was damning to the story's
veracity.

~~~
yummyfajitas
How so? The fact that the company is attempting to minimize legal liability
doesn't mean that the contractor was truthful.

Nor does it mean that people who estimated that P(story = true | writer sounds
racist) < P(story = true) were incorrect.

~~~
aristotelian
It's not about who's right and who's wrong. It's about who has the power.

The Kixeye CEO did exactly the right thing for his shareholders. He's also
going to make a large payment to the OP, which will enable this obvious
professional victim to live for years off his month of work. This is also the
right thing to do - for the shareholders.

The lesson for hiring managers is that you have to be very careful when hiring
a member of a "protected class." You are effectively hiring them for a
different position than your ordinary second-class citizens.

It's not illegal to be an asshole to an ordinary second-class citizen. But a
member of a protected class is effectively a noble, and a different set of
legal norms apply to him. It _is_ illegal to be an asshole to a member of this
nobility. America is a nation of laws, and you have to follow the law. Kudos
to the Kixeye CEO for realizing this.

Why isn't it illegal for anyone to be an asshole to anyone else? A fascinating
question. Worth thinking about.

(And don't ask me how our country got to have "protected classes" at the same
time as it got "equal protection under the law." Actually, the latter is
legally derived from the former - believe it or not.)

~~~
cynicalkane
My God. Say what you will about affirmative action and discrimination law, but
I assure you that minorities and women do _not_ feel like "nobles" in America.

~~~
basseq
BTW, if anyone else was confused by the 450 SAT points comment, here's the
detail:

"To receive equal consideration by elite colleges, Asian Americans must
outperform Whites by 140 points, Hispanics by 280 points, Blacks by 450 points
in SAT (Total 1600)."

From "No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal: Race and Class in Elite College
Admission and Campus Life" by Thomas J. Espenshade & Alexandria Walton Radford
(2009)

Source: [http://80-20initiative.blogspot.com/2012/03/450-point-sat-
ga...](http://80-20initiative.blogspot.com/2012/03/450-point-sat-gap-large-
racial.html)

------
physcab
Startups in the valley seem almost by definition, segregated places to work. I
don't think it is intentional (or maybe in the case of Kixeye it was), but the
vast majority of companies seem to have straight white males in their 20's as
employees. What this means is that people who do not have "critical mass", ie
any few numbers of minorities, are going to count the number people just like
them. It will also mean stereotypes will be at their worst. Do startups hire
programmers in their 50's? Do startups that make products "for women" try to
hire women to work on that product? Why is it that black engineers and non-
native English speaking engineers are in positions like QA and testing, but
not program management? These are just a few of the trends I've noticed.

~~~
brown9-2
Why do you assume that "stereotypes will be at their worst" in a workforce
that is mostly male, young, and white?

~~~
wonderzombie
It seems reasonable to suggest that more diversity would inversely correlate
with comments/behavior which targets non-white, non-young, and non-males.

Furthermore, working with a wide variety of people from a variety of
backgrounds naturally encourages you to think about people outside of your own
culture. It's a counter-example to the idea that whiteness is "normal" or
"American" and (e.g.) black culture is "black" and, by implication, "not-
quite-American" nor "normal."

------
kevingadd
As much as I was expecting a spineless "a few bad apples" response from
Kixeye, I'm still pleased to see them responding openly to the accusations and
taking at least some action to correct the issues, instead of just trying to
make it all go away. Hopefully this leads to larger reform.

~~~
Lewisham
From what I can tell, Harbin seems like A Good Bloke. It doesn't surprise me
to hear of the brogrammer environment given the way they've marketed (the
YouTube video, recruitment flyers with Insanity Wolf on), but it's good that
he stepped up quickly.

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dreamdu5t
"Hipster racism" is exactly the right word to describe it. Suburban Internet
culture is infested with it.

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famousactress
_“...I did discover examples of embarrassing behavior that I find
inappropriate for Kixeye or any other work environment."_

I don't like that he leads with the word "embarassing". It suggests a focus on
how this makes _Kixeye look_. I would have liked to've seen a word like
"horrifying", "unconsciounable", or "evil" in it's place.

~~~
tptacek
He can't use those words. They incur further exposure to lawsuits.

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gavanwoolery
Well, there may or may not have been racism occurring (sometimes it is
difficult to distinguish a joke). Now if you are the type of person who thinks
a racist joke is a "bad" joke, then I guess you also hate South Park and love
to bathe in politically-correct self-righteousness. I have friends of every
race, and we joke openly about our respective races/religions/ethnicities.

The one thing I will say is that the author is clearly racist towards white
people (yes, this is possible), or at the very least grossly lumps all white
people into the same category. A few quotes from his article (linked below):
\-- "Beyond culture = hipster racism = neoliberal white supremacy" \--
"Dumbwhite __ __*" \-- "A brief moment of clarity only to be again submerged
in the sea of white privilege and supremacy" \-- "white men always telling
which way is up because they feel they are the “authority” when it comes to
any and everything, most often when they don’t know shit about shit except how
to protect their privilege by telling me my life experience is false"

The author takes (at most) minor infractions, and uses them to demonize the
entire white race.

On the other hand, it would be stupid for a company with a culture like this
to hire a gay black guy, they are just asking for a lawsuit.

[http://venturebeat.com/2012/10/02/kixeye-takes-
substantial-c...](http://venturebeat.com/2012/10/02/kixeye-takes-substantial-
corrective-action-after-black-contractor-calls-out-racist-behavior-at-social-
gaming-firm/)

~~~
geoka9
_Now if you are the type of person who thinks a racist joke is a "bad" joke,
then I guess you also hate South Park and love to bathe in politically-correct
self-righteousness._

I don't know much about South Park. Not sure about self-righteousness either.
But I like to bathe in the feeling that I don't accidentally insult people I
have no intent to insult. That's why I try to be careful with my jokes
(racist-wise or otherwise).

~~~
gavanwoolery
Good policy. :) Here is a good joke:

Q:"How does every racist joke start?" A:[Looks over both shoulders]

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alecdibble
I think this story brings up an interesting point about startups and "startup
culture". It's nice to have an environment that is friendly and comfortable,
but at the same time, lines have to be drawn. Unfortunately, some people see
having no HR department as an excuse to disregard inclusiveness or respect.

~~~
flexxaeon
It's an interesting point indeed. Lived it for well over a decade now and I
still find it's hard to come up with a good solution.

Startups, tech companies, new media companies, whatever you want to call them,
always want to create fun places to work. And everyone can appreciate that. A
usual mantra is "hey we're all friends here" and they attempt to go about that
way (sometimes awkwardly). Once friendship is established, especially among
younger males from Gen X and Y, jokes/ribbing/dozens are all but inevitable -
because that's what friends do. The problem is that some people poorly gauge
the limits and take things too far. But such is life.

I've always felt that situations like the Kixeye one contribute to the lack of
diversity in the tech world. Why would a company want to have to deal with
this? I'm reading the Harbin response and while I commend him and Kixeye for
taking action (if what happened to that kid was even half true, then it was
excessive), when I see "sensitivity training program" and "anonymous, company-
wide surveys"...ugh. Who the hell looks forward for that? And what does this
do to the company culture, where now you have to worry about not offending
people instead of building great products and "being kick ass."

It's _really_ difficult to balance diversity, friendly culture and
sensitivity. I haven't had to deal with "sensitivity training" at a company
but I doubt it's the best maneuver. From my experience, it's a matter of
awareness, skin toughness, and even some luck.

~~~
Tipzntrix
It's for the shareholders to minimize legal liability.

Anyone can spout as much talk about relaxed, casual, kick ass, rockstar,
ninja-like, and whatever the newest buzz word is to describe their workplace,
but it just takes one bad incident (or sometimes one overly touchy person, not
saying the victim here was though) to have to walk on the eggshells of
avoiding lawsuits. In any case, my bet is that the sensitivity training won't
even be taken very seriously, but I think the actual shake-up will definitely
spark some change.

My concern is now that the people fired will probably be even more racist
rather than less so because of said punishments, and look again for a safe
outlet to spew their hate. They may have learned for their own sake to keep it
out of the workplace, but don't think it just got "nipped in the bud". Someone
else is going to have to deal with this on what will most likely be a worse
level.

------
cityhall
What a terrible article. There's no reference to the actual allegations, not
even a link to the original post. Nothing but repetitions of the company's
press release.

~~~
Anechoic
_There's no reference to the actual allegations, not even a link to the
original post._

Did you actually read the article? There's a link to the original article
describing the allegations in the _second_ sentence:
[http://venturebeat.com/2012/10/02/kixeye-takes-
substantial-c...](http://venturebeat.com/2012/10/02/kixeye-takes-substantial-
corrective-action-after-black-contractor-calls-out-racist-behavior-at-social-
gaming-firm/) That article in turn links the post that started everything
(although the post has since been removed to the link is dead).

