
Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service Pistol - happy-go-lucky
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/01/19/army-picks-sig-sauer-replace-m9-service-pistol.html
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kens
Given the HN article earlier today about people claiming they were humbled
when they aren't, I find it amusing that the article quotes the CEO saying:
"We are both humbled and proud that the P320 was selected by the U.S. Army as
its weapon of choice."

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13480255](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13480255)

~~~
coderdude
It's believable though. The most powerful military force on the planet chooses
something your company makes to become the standard issue. It's hard to
believe that wouldn't feel humbling. What a sense of pride that must give
them. Do those two feelings cancel each other out? It's important to not try
to frame everything you read based on whatever article was recently up-voted
here.

~~~
coldtea
>* It's hard to believe that wouldn't feel humbling.*

The parent's point is that it wouldn't feel humbling in any original meaning
of the word. You wouldn't feel "lowered in stature" etc for being chosen, but
the opposite.

But of course this ignores that the word has shifted in use.

~~~
coderdude
Yeah you're right when you mention the shift in use. Reminds me of people who
use "begs the question" incorrectly (basically everyone and all the time) but
how most people think of it now. Very pedantic though. (Pedantic is the HN
norm though, so, when in Rome, do as the Romans do.)

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general_ai
Why not Glock, I wonder. If you're going to go striker fired anyway, Glock is
the Kalashnikov of handguns. Simple as can be, and just keeps going no matter
what. I have a Sig P226, it's a fine gun, I'm much more accurate with it
(shooting stationary paper targets), but if you asked me what I'd take to a
war zone, I would take a Glock 17 or a Glock 19. Much less of a chance that
it'll crap out on me at the worst possible moment, which is an important
feature, when your life is on the line, IMO.

~~~
aplomb
Glock was out of the running because lack of a "real" safety and their
unwillingness to add one

~~~
general_ai
They have the only "real" safety: keep your finger out of the trigger guard.
:-)

~~~
bnolsen
or for conceal carry...don't catch your shirt on the trigger...

~~~
easychewie
Dude. I've been daily carrying a Glock since 2006, never had a negligent
discharge.

~~~
Uhhrrr
Survivor bias - someone who has is less likely to post.

~~~
easychewie
You can't just say "survivor bias" and think you have a solid argument. Let's
examine your objection more critically.

I mentioned I'd carried every day since 2006. Suppose this isn't quite true,
and I've only carried 330 days per year (this is too low, but still). Further,
we just started 2017, and I started carrying in August 2006. This means I've
carried roughly 3,437 days. If my carrying a Glock on any given day is as high
as 99.9% safe (i.e., I have a 0.01% chance of a negligent discharge), then I
should have a "survival" probability of only 3.2%. If my daily safety
probability drops to only 99.7%, my probability of getting to now with no ND
is 0.0%. Decreasing my daily safety probability to only 99% means my
probability of no ND is 9.95e-14.

Now think about what this means. Either:

1\. Carrying a Glock is very unsafe, and I'm _incredibly_ lucky. In this case
your claim of survivor bias would be warranted (assuming there weren't many
others like me, which there are).

2\. Carrying a Glock is very safe, and the chances of an ND are substantially
less than 0.01% per day, in which case the charge of survivor bias is
unwarranted.

It strikes me that #2 is the clear winner here.

~~~
areyousure
I think the main thing you've demonstrated with your calculations is that a
0.01% chance of negligent discharge per day is in fact rather unsafe. In
particular, a 0.01% chance of discharging per day means that with daily carry
for two years, you are more likely to have experienced a negligent discharge
than not.

~~~
areyousure
Sadly, this comment of mine is incorrect. I meant 0.1%. My error comes from
the same error in the comment I was responding to:

> 99.9% safe (i.e., I have a 0.01% chance of a negligent discharge)

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ComputerGuru
I keep waiting for someone other than the Maryland PD to appreciate the
Beretta PX4 Storm.

Anyway, I think the decision to search for something "more potent" than 9mm is
pointless. There's a real reason we ditched the .45 for 9mm, and there's a lot
to be said for smaller, cheaper ammo that everyone in the army can shoot all
day without breaking their wrists. 9mm isnt .22, and it's more than enough to
stop just about anyone coming at you.

~~~
qball
>I keep waiting for someone other than the Maryland PD to appreciate the
Beretta PX4 Storm.

I should mention that the Slovakian army is adopting the Grand Power K100; the
action is very similar to the PX4 Storm (the barrel rotates).

~~~
ComputerGuru
Yeah, the rotating barrel is actually very neat and effective. I had my
reservations about it, but it's actually a pretty solid mechanism that all but
eliminates recoil and improves subsequent shot accuracy. Thanks for sharing
the info about the K100.

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aplomb
Article touched on the subject at the very end, but the decision was pushed
across the finish line just before inauguration. Tremendous waste in the
program and would have been easy fodder for Trump.

~~~
kev009
In the follow on procurement or the contract competition? The M9 is pretty old
school and should be replaced. The p320 is a pretty nice side arm at a
reasonable price on the civilian market.

~~~
aplomb
Agreed m9 was due and the p320 is a great weapon. But $17mm and two year
trials is silly for pistols that were largely already on the market.

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Surio
Sig sauers prominently featured in person of interest as well... Giving some
leeway for the fact that it's a TV serial, there has to be some merit in the
handgun for the protagonist to fall back to it all the time.

[http://personofinterest.wikia.com/wiki/John_Reese](http://personofinterest.wikia.com/wiki/John_Reese)

_Reese's weapon of choice is a SIG-Sauer P226R..._

~~~
cma
> there has to be some merit in the handgun for the protagonist to fall back
> to it all the time.

Probably product placement.

~~~
NTripleOne
The idea of product placement for a firearm just seems bizarre to me... but
I'm not American either.

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aphextron
Interesting to see this on HN. I know there has never been any love for the M9
from it's inception, so this is long overdue. Having a .357 option is going to
be really popular I'd imagine.

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metaphor
For anyone else interested in the acquisition side of this, here's the .GOV-
official award notice[1] and PDF of RFP[2] that drove this competition.

[1]
[https://www.fbo.gov/index?id=fb3dfb4ce966d2b1b0e017377b27cc1...](https://www.fbo.gov/index?id=fb3dfb4ce966d2b1b0e017377b27cc1b)

[2]
[https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=04ea995d09f89172f449616ffc...](https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=04ea995d09f89172f449616ffcf97e7c)

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TillE
It seems a little odd that Germany has so many of the world's leading small
arms manufacturers. I guess it's mostly the general manufacturing expertise.

~~~
eigenvector
US manufacturers have the benefit of a large domestic law enforcement and
civilian market for small arms, but also have to contend with relatively
stringent export controls on weapons.

Germany is the opposite. Small domestic LE/military market, minimal to non-
existent civilian market, but they'll export to anyone who can pay.

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jMyles
Seems sensible. Fairly conservative switch from one DA/SA to another.

edit: I was totally wrong. I was thinking of the P220, not the P320. This is
actually a huge change.

~~~
sornaensis
The Sig P320 is striker fired double action only pistol, and has the same
trigger pull every shot :)

~~~
jMyles
Whoa - I was thinking is the P220 / 226\. So yeah, this is a big change then.

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WallWextra
I remember reading somewhere that the modularity requirement was basically
written to make sure the P320 won. No, I can't recall where or cite.

~~~
jeron
I looked into it and found this article
([https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/03/21/army-general-
screw-...](https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/03/21/army-general-screw-
procurement-nightmare-give-glocks/)) about a US Army General that was tired of
waiting for the MHS competition (which is the competition that the P320 won)
and was gonna try to bypass the competition and just get Glock 19s. However,
he did not succeed and the P320 was chosen.

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caleblloyd
Fantastic although interchangeable grips are going to be a pain in the ass to
keep track of. Not to mention I sure hope they settle on a single caliber
across the force.

Can't wait to see how many models wind up on the property books if the Army
decides to go for different options. Which knowing the Army that will
happen...

~~~
microcolonel
Pretty sure 9x19mm is still the standard handgun cartridge across at least the
U.S. military, if not NATO as a whole.

I also suspect they'll standardize around the full size P320. I don't think
there will be such a sad explosion of combinations.

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jasonlingx
"We are both humbled and proud", what does this mean?

~~~
dajohnson89
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13480255](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13480255)

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rbcgerard
This seems like a disaster waiting to happen, modular, different calibers,
threaded etc...

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luckystartup
I wonder when humans will stop using guns on each other. Maybe 2100?

~~~
thedaemon
When humans have an alien species to use guns against.

~~~
luckystartup
In all honesty, I watched Arrival last night, and I've been thinking about it
all day. It's actually the main reason I posted my comment. I highly recommend
watching it.

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X86BSD
I would have chosen Springfield armory XDs.

I love mine. Outstanding sidearm.

