
Ask HN: What do you think of job hopping? - jobhopper
How is it considered by hiring managers? How long one should stay at one place to not be classified as a hopper? Is it a big deal to hop in our (the tech) industry for engineers&#x2F;PMs? Does it makes a difference whether the hopper apply at a startup or at a big company?<p>(also I consider a hopper who&#x27;s efficient and who&#x27;s seeking challenges, who unwilling to settle rather the underperformer who keeps leaving before getting fired...)
======
fecak
Recruiter here, and the first thing to consider is that to actually be called
a job hopper, you must be pretty good at getting hired. Otherwise, you'd be
called unemployed.

People define job hopping different ways, and the tenure matters. I once had a
client (financial, big) that wouldn't hire anyone that wasn't at their current
job for 7+ years. They abandoned that policy around 2006, as they found it
impossible to hire, and they also found that the types of candidates that met
that qualification often weren't that attractive. In other words, they found
that if you were at your company for 10+ years, it could be because you are
not in high demand by others.

In tech, moving jobs is expected and probably recommended from a marketability
and employability perspective, as long as you make smart moves and don't just
leave every time you get bored or passed over for a promotion.

Someone who has a pattern of staying perhaps 3 years with companies and then
leaving will often be viewed as very attractive, whereas someone who has
several 6-8 month stints over the course of a few years will often get a
negative view. EDIT: Forgot that I wrote an article on job hopping for tech
pros earlier this year
[http://jobtipsforgeeks.com/2013/07/25/hop/](http://jobtipsforgeeks.com/2013/07/25/hop/)

~~~
CmonDev
Gray area is the most interesting as usual: 1-2 years.

~~~
djKianoosh
I had an old manager about 10 years ago that told me his advice is, rule of
thumb, everyone should move after 2-2.5 years. 1 year is not enough, he would
say, to really know the business/tech of a place to make a real big
difference. After 2 years, if the work isn't interesting anymore and/or if
you've already made an impact, it will take a while to make a big impact
again.

Looking back (I've had stints of 4 yrs, 2 yrs, 6.5 yrs, .5 yrs, and 1yr) I
have to say he was pretty much on the money.

~~~
fecak
I even think 3-5 years can be a good duration if your company is doing
interesting things and moving you around a bit. Multiple 2 year stints could
start to scare some people, but I definitely feel that someone with five 2
year stints could very well be better off than someone with 10 years at the
same place.

~~~
djKianoosh
That person with 10 years at the same place better not have been doing the
same thing for half that time! :) that's my point. It could be that you were
at Accenture or IBM 10 years. Fine. You probably had a great senior
manager/associate partner that took care of you. Great. Most likely during
that time you wore many hats, had several roles, etc. To me that's similar to
someone working at 5 different companies in 10 years. Just need the details to
confirm.

But if that gal/guy is 10 years with only two different roles during that
whole time. Yeah, I'd have to dig in deeper on that.

------
Ensorceled
In my 20 years of hiring developers, how I feel about job hopping depends on
which of two categories you fall into:

No problem: You're a top shelf engineer, you are going to hit the ground
running. Your prep for the interview has almost made you a domain expert, you
suggest technologies and point out issues I didn't know about. Your resume has
short stints at startups, some who are now gone, and a mistaken attempt to
work at IBM. I don't care if you leave in 6 months because I'll get 5 1/2
months of amazing stuff.

Problem: You are, supposedly, a solid journeyman programmer. I can tell it's
going to take you at least 2 weeks to get a feel for the place and about 2
months before you're solid. If you leave in 6 months, I've invested 2 months
of effort training for 4 months of return. The 2x recruitment fees are going
to make it not worth hiring you, I should have gotten a contractor.

------
chanced
Depends on a few factors:

\- Type of employment. Is it a contract or "perm" position? Contract positions
are expected to hop. It's part of the game.

\- Timing. Are you in the middle of something? Can someone else easily pick
it? Bailing in the middle of a big migration will leave a nasty taste in
managers' mouths.

\- Rank. Are you a CTO or a developer? The higher up you are, the longer
you're expected to stay.

Changing jobs is something that you should do, in my opinion. Here's why:

\- Versatility. You'll be exposed to new challenges/solutions, practices, and
possibly languages.

\- Network. If you do it properly, you'll establish a lot of new contacts in
the industry

\- Exposure. The same job at different companies may have different
responsibilities and roles. You'll get a chance to build new skills or
determine weaknesses.

\- Pay. If you're hopping for the right reasons and doing it right, it is
hands down the best way to get a pay boost. Once you're "in" a bigger company,
they'll put you on a standardized raise ladder. Sure, you can get promoted but
those will often have calculations involved that reduce your elevation. With
hopping, you can set expectations (I need X% more to jump).

Problems with job hopping:

\- Bridges. You'll burn them.

\- Fatigue. It's a lot more time and emotionally consuming than you'll realize
to look for work. Interviews are exhausting (and intentionally so).

\- Loyalty. You won't have any.

\- Rank. It's hard to climb a ladder when you're jumping off of them.

~~~
FelixP
> Bridges. You'll burn them.

As a manager, this is definitely not always the case. If someone is leaving
for the "right" reasons (namely, they have an awesome opportunity somewhere
else), then that's great. While it may be an operational disruption, one of my
goals as a manager is always to want the best for the people on my team - even
if that means leaving.

~~~
GrinningFool
I've always wished I could be comfortable having a frank discussion about this
with my management (previous jobs - actually quite happy where I am for the
moment).

It would be great to be able to say "hey I'm thinking it's time to move on"
and have a reasonable discussion about it (exploring other things in the
company, etc) instead of being concerned that they now consider me a flight
risk and will start trying to find a replacement.

------
varelse
IMO the minute you are hired as an at-will employee that can be terminated at
any time, with or without cause, you have been granted carte blanche to do the
same to your employer.

That said, staying for ~2 years and jumping when you can get a promotion by
doing so seems to be a pretty common strategy. I've heard hiring managers and
engineers decry this practice repeatedly, but I know way too many directors
and VPs who got there by doing this very thing to feel one should criticize
it. Or, sigh, hate the game, don't hate the player.

~~~
toomuchtodo
VP of Operations here. The longest I've stayed at a job was three years in
thirteen years. I make what I make because I don't wait around for a raise. If
you haven't given me one, I go to greener pastures (as we all should!).

Loyalty and waiting years for recognition via compensation? Ain't nobody got
time for that.

~~~
amackera
Do you at least ask for a raise first?

~~~
petervandijck
A raise usually means a 5-10% increase, a job change a 20-50% increase. Asking
for a raise makes little sense.

~~~
djKianoosh
Asking for a raise also puts you on management radar. some people like that,
some people don't. they consider you a "flight risk" at that point. good
companies will try to figure out ways (other than money) to keep you around.
Sometimes though, personal dynamics change and those people just leave a few
months later anyway, even if they do get a bump in the short term.

~~~
sblawrie
My company has straight up told me that they know I'm a "flight risk". I've
been there for a year and a half, and they know I'm looking to do "bigger"
things then what I currently work on.

So, they've been continually giving me raises. It's really nice, but frankly,
it doesn't matter. I'm still interviewing elsewhere.

They're right; I want to go somewhere where I'm challenged, and unless they
can pay me 40% more than what I'll make on the free market, I'm a "flight
risk".

------
codegeek
Depends on a few things. what you are looking to achieve in your career and
how far along are you ? Let me explain further. In my opinion and experience,
if you are entry level or about <5 years of experience, changing jobs a couple
of times may not be a bad idea. It gives you exposure to a new environment and
you could learn a different set of things which you may or may not at the same
company. Not to mention that in the initial few years of your career, job
change will get you a decent raise which is almost nothing these days if you
stay at the same company (even less than inflation for majority of us).

Once you have reached a certain level of experience or no. of years (say
average 7+), then the question becomes: what is your goal now ? If you want to
be a manager/executive/director/VP etc at a company, then you need to be able
to show some stability in employment history otherwise you are getting into
the territory of "job hoppers who are not good fit for the senior level
roles". But if you instead want to become a consultant/contractor/SME in your
field, then you can keep hopping from client to client of course and sell
yourself as the guy who comes, solves problems and leaves while making a good
chunk of dollars. I am personally in the second category and even though at
times I have considered the stable option, it just does not cut it for me.

One final advice (been in professional industry for 10+ years), most employers
are not loyal to employees anymore. Gone are those days when employers
actually invested in their employees as assets and not
cost/headcounts/resources. So just like you are considered job hopper, I
consider many companies "Candidate hoppers". They will get rid of you without
any remorse (well may be a sorry from a nice manager if at all) and will just
officially say "we are cutting down on budget so need to get rid of you".
Always remember that hopping is two way.

------
BigChiefSmokem
My last year of still being considered a "junior/mid" level developer I job
hopped about 3 times within 7 months and propelled myself into the very high
end of the (national and local) pay scale for a Senior Developer. A lot of
people take years to make this transition (or wait to be promoted) but I felt
I was considerably undervalued and that I could be a Senior within a couple of
years. To my surprise, the reality became that I did it in 7 months by taking
a lot of big risks (including moving across country) and doing a lot of
bluffing (but never lying) with regards to my contracting terms. I tend to be
offered a lot of contract-to-perm but in practice I never actually get around
to the "perm" part, as I like to control my hours and my overtime and usually
by that time I am ready to move on to broaden my experience.

These employers were more surprised rather than pissed at me. I don't consider
myself a "rockstar" or any of that mumbo-jumbo but I always make sure I am a
productive part of any team I'm on. I made it clear I wish to burn no bridges
and that I always followed my experience and the opportunities they opened up.
I also always make sure the money is right so that I could say no to any
counter-offers. Usually when I'm ready to leave money is not going to get me
to stay. There are always many other factors at play in a departing worker's
decision besides money.

~~~
scarecrowbob
That very much meets with my general career pattern. If you want to make quick
advancement (especially if, like me you started as a developer at 33 instead
of 23), then this make s a whole lot of sense. I literally doubled my hourly
rate every three months for a year (it didn't hurt that I started off crapping
out small marketing sites for $14/hr).

I gave each group I moved on from chances to match whatever offer I was moving
to, but usually when confronted with having to pay me almost double, they were
quite happy for me and totally understood why I was moving on (even though
it's not about the money).

To add to the other things that I agree with (don't burn bridges, neither lie
nor undersell yourself, don't move to "perm", money isn't the motivator as
much as finding higher quality projects): having a pad of cash saved up when
you can do it makes all of that a lot less risky and makes decisions easier to
make.

If you're used to living on $16/hr, the first step is risky and hard to take,
but if you can maintain that way of living the next several steps all seem
increasingly less risky, to the point where I have tow concurrent contracts
who want to hire me and I don't know if I want to get pinned.

------
opcenter
My general rule is that I will stay with the same job for at least 1 year.
Part of that is to not look like I'm job hopping, but mostly it's because it
generally takes me around 6 months to fully acclimate to the environment and
another 6 months to get deep enough into development to figure out if it's
somewhere I want to stay.

Of course that timing changes depending on the product and company. If you're
working on a well established product at a medium to large company it may take
longer to do much real development (beyond bug fixing and paper shuffling), so
it may take longer to figure out if you want to stay longer. However, at a
startup, you'll probably be dropped right into the fire on the first day, so
you may be able to determine that more quickly.

When I've looked at resumes, anything less than a year at a job usually raises
a flag. Unless there are a lot of jobs on your resume like that, it's not a
negative thing, but I would absolutely ask about it during an interview.

~~~
webjprgm
I figure I should stay a year because usually the hiring bonus has to be
returned if I don't.

~~~
eru
Just tell your new company that they have to make up for that, if they want
you sooner.

------
gscott
I made the mistake of staying at one job for 9 years. I was raised by my
Grandmother who in her generation staying for a long time was a good thing. 9
years on one technology and tools is a huge distaster that I realized too
late. My current position I have been at for 4 years. Now every day I am
making sure I learn something new so I can prepare to find a new position.

------
agentultra
I've worked in startups for most of my 10 years being paid to program
computers. I probably average about 1-1.2 companies a year. The reason being
that most of the companies I've worked for folded, pivoted or down-sized. It
doesn't help that the technology sector in my neck of the woods is anemic at
best and supported by very cautious investors.

I've never had a problem. I can only recall being asked about it by one or two
people. I was just honest and they didn't seem to mind. I got at least one job
despite it. I might have missed out on another offer because of it but I doubt
it.

The weird thing is that this is just the sort of thing I was warned about
before I even got to college. I was told that the norm would be to have many
different jobs in my lifetime and not to expect to be with the same employer
throughout my career as my grandparents were. I just see it as the new normal;
a symptom of a network economy as Pekka Himanen describes in _The Hacker Ethic
and the Spirit of the Information Age_. A bunch of people get together, build
something cool, make some money and move on. We're not in the business of
building widgets on an assembly line after all.

But maybe my path has allowed me to be blissfully ignorant of the whole "job-
hopper," conundrum. I'm sure it still exists. I just think it's a very
backwards ideal in a creativity and knowledge-based line of work such as
programming.

 _Update_ It's not for a lack of trying to stay on a long-term project. One
startup I worked at for 2 years and had no intention of leaving. It was being
shuttered and I got laid off. That is a fairly common occurrence for startups
in my neck of the woods where funding and investment is anemic and the
majority of talent is funneled off to SV.

------
malyk
I'm trying to hire an engineer right now and job hopping is almost an instant
reject. But my guess is that it really depends on the stage of the company and
size of the team.

If you come from a recruiter that I have to pay $25k (or more), then there's
no way it's worth it for me to only have you for 4-8 months.

If you are one of the first few engineers on the team then there is no way I
can justify building a team of people who I suspect are going to jump ship in
4-8 months.

But, if you have a more established team, the candidate doesn't come from a
recruiter, and I have projects that I know are scoped in the 4-8 month time
period then I may consider it.

So I'd say if you are a job hopper it's fine, but don't get upset with me when
I refuse to talk to you even if you have the best skills I've ever seen.

~~~
nawitus
If a job hopper hops to get raises, then it's easy to makes sure he stops
hopping: pay the employee market rates. If they can't get a raise, they
probably won't quit.

~~~
malyk
Sure, but comments in this thread alone tell us that not all job hoppers do it
for money/title bumps. I'm happy to pay market salary, and give competitive
raises if warranted, but you aren't going to become the VP of engineering or
CTO at any company I'm involved with if you are 24 and have worked at 8
companies for 4 months each no matter what skills you have.

That doesn't mean that person isn't good at what they do. But I'm building
teams, not a group of mercenaries. If I need a mercenary I'll hire a
contractor.

------
herghost
In my industry (info sec, UK) most people consider 2 years to be the (permie)
line. The farther below this you go, the more of a liability you start to look
(it costs a lot of money, time, and effort to recruit - I don't want to be in
a constant recruitment cycle). Conversely, if you're a "lifer" then you've got
work to do to convince me I'm your next butt-groove.

For contractors, the length of time is less directly important, what I'm
looking for are people who were extended from their original contract length a
few times - this tells me that they're not just purely contract hopping
(constant recruitment cycle again), that they're willing to stay in the right
place (which I obviously believe we're offering), and that someone felt they
were good enough in a previous role to try to keep them.

------
rubiquity
Job hopper here.

I used to come to these threads hoping to find comfort for the job hopper in
me. Now that a couple years have gone by and I'm OK I think I can provide some
comfort to job hoppers.

My background: I've been an employed developer for over two years. Over the
two years I've gone from cutting my teeth at a start up doing Customer Support
and any programming they would let me get my hands on to being considered
somewhere in between Mid-level and Senior in my particular environment. During
this journey I've been at four different companies for 6 months, 8 months, 4
months, and 6 months. I've always exceeded all goals and contributed in big
ways in short periods of time. I'm now a Consultant because I think it is more
suited for how I like to work on a lot of different things with different
people and I have enough experience and successes to be able to be a
consultant (ie. people will pay me for my services).

During the interviews for my last two jobs the hiring managers brought up my
job history point blank. One even directly called me a job hopper. I didn't
shy away from their perception or try to convince them that this time it would
be different. While some may see this as sugar coating, I indirectly told them
that I am a challenge hopper. I talked about the projects I've worked on and
the impact I've had. I talked about the value I've brought to the teams I've
been on and what I do to better myself as a programmer.

All companies are looking for the good old "V" word - value. Some companies
will be more interested in how long you're likely to stick around for. If how
long I'm likely to stick around is that important to them then I treat this
difference the same way I would anything else that we don't see eye to eye on
- I walk away.

In the land of software we are lucky to have this affordability because of
demand for programmers is high and margins on software can be extremely high.
Jump around a little bit and learn a lot. Maybe you'll do that forever. Maybe
you'll go do your ownt hing. Maybe you'll settle down. You've got a skill.
People want it.

~~~
rfnslyr
Hopping is great. I'm 20 and work as a contractor, so I just work on a per
project basis. It's great being exposed to a different set of tech on nearly
every project. Plus, as a contractor, you get paid a lot more.

I don't see any downsides. I think I'll hop until my mid 20's and then I'll
either start my own gig or stay somewhere for an extended period of time.

Hop when you're young, get experience, build connections, meet people.

My current place is actually pretty mad I'm wanting to leave, but I don't want
to dedicate the next 10 years of my life to just one company.

> I didn't shy away from their perception or try to convince them that this
> time it would be different.

Good point. Don't let managers/recruiters guilt you. No shame in job hopping.

It's less stressful working on a per-project basis. If the company wants you
to stay, you'll get another contract for another project, nothing wrong with
that.

~~~
MartinCron
If you're 20, you can't yet speak to the potential long-term downsides of
being seen as an opportunistic job-hopper.

~~~
rfnslyr
I've been hopping since I was 14.

~~~
webjprgm
Still doesn't count. You're perceived entirely differently being that young
(younger than a typical college grad new recruit). You also don't have the
same life goals to deal with, like raising a family which is much more
expensive and requires more stability than a young single guy in an apartment
who can move at a moment's notice.

------
louthy
As an employer I am acutely aware of:

1\. Are you a contractor who is short of work 2\. Are you a full-time
individual that can't stick at a job for > 2 years

If you appear to be either of the above then I won't even get you in for an
interview,

A recruiter earlier in this thread said that a "job hopper" could also just be
someone that is good at getting hired. That may be true, but I am not remotely
interested in employing you, regardless of how good you may be.

If my investment of time in you is out the window in a year then you may as
well be a junior programmer, because I will have to start all over again.

Employees aren't obliged to be at a company for any amount of time, but it
really looks bad if you appear to not care (IMHO).

------
Cyranix
I've been a developer for a little over five years now, and I've had four
jobs. The longest of them lasted over two years, and shortest lasted three
months. I'm actually leaving a job today after a little over eighteen months.

In my limited experience, rapid job changes at the outset of one's career
aren't particularly damaging -- providing you can offer an honest and
reasonable explanation. I left my longest job because I had to move in support
of my wife's career. I left my shortest job because the technical lead was
toxic and the work would have led to a dead-end career. I'm leaving my job
today for a variety of reasons which I've discussed amicably yet honestly over
a period of several months with my manager. In no case was a better salary or
some other material gain the primary motivation behind my decision to leave.

There's something to be said for getting exposure to a variety of environments
early on. Freelancing, consulting, part-time jobs, summer jobs, and co-op
terms can help to maximize exposure without much risk of negative career
implications. If you have good priorities -- e.g. eventually ending up in a
fulfulling, long-term job with appropriate pay -- a few changes will likely do
more good than harm. But if you routinely leave when the technical challenge
stops being sexy or if you attempt to get a cushy job with nothing but
shortcuts, you can find yourself in trouble.

------
otoburb
The severity of hiring manager "job hopping" alarms are inversely proportional
to historical job tenures listed on your CV.

If you show that you changed jobs at a rate of 6 months then hiring managers
will extrapolate this and conclude that you are less likely to stay longer
than the preferred minimum 12 months. A severe "job hopping" alarm will be
triggered in this case.

If you change jobs every 12 months, then you're in more-likely-to-land-an-
interview territory, but there will be questions and reservations, depending
on the job position.

Anything longer than that and it's probably unlikely you'll trigger job
hopping alarms for engineers. PMs may be a bit different depending on the
industry. For example, if you're a PM in a slower moving technology industry
like telecom then anything less than 24months would probably count against
you, especially if you're moving between different completely markets.

Startups help to explain short job durations, but hiring managers would then
expect to hear what you learned and convince them you were insanely productive
during said period.

~~~
f7t7ft7
> but hiring managers would then expect to hear what you learned and convince
> them you were insanely productive during said period.

Hopefully you can say these things about any job you were at.

~~~
otoburb
Hopefully you can, especially about the "insane productive" part. But for
startups roles due to the shortened timeframe and heightened expectations on
the part of the hiring manager the job applicant needs to make doubly sure
they convey this impression.

------
rpedela
My advice is to always stay at your first job for about 3 years. Then any
question of "job hopping" does not happen. If you really really hate your
first job, then switch and stay at the next one for 3 years.

~~~
eru
I stayed at my first job for three years. It was a mistake. I could have
gotten way more money by switching.

~~~
rpedela
You have your entire life to make money. First, get experience and show you
won't jump ship for no good reason.

~~~
eru
You gain way more experiences by exposing yourself to different environments.
More challenges and more money is a good reason. It's just a job after all,
not a ship.

------
eddie_31003
Continuous Growth and Continuous Improvement doesn't always mean leaving your
current gig, but if that is what it takes, then hop away. For me personally,
in the last 4 years I have been in 4 different companies. I had one job offer
that asked whether bringing me on meant that I would be leaving after a year
or two, I declined the offer because it was not enough to make me want to
leave the employer I was at. I feel that each one of my previous endeavors has
lead me to the next opportunity.

------
kennethtilton
It is a concern. It says to me the applicant is all about accelerating their
personal income growth while the company is just a stepping stone. I know they
will be looking for a new job the day they start. My feeling is, if I can milk
them I will, so they need to be good. But our system takes time to master, so
prolly not even gonna be an interview.

------
Jackie345
In India project managers(usually non-coders and highly paid than any
programmer) never switch jobs until they get fired or the organization goes
bankrupt.

Good Programmers always switch approximately about 3-6 years once and usually
get about 30-50% hike with promotion.

------
gwbas1c
It really depends on the complexity of the product(s) your working on, and how
much you enjoy the position.

There's also something be said for hopping until you find a nice set of golden
handcuffs. :)

------
ChristianMarks
What about resigning after < 2 months? Solid record before that (to the point
of petrification).

~~~
travem
Speaking from the perspective of an interviewer (so assuming you pass the HR
filter) it wouldn't be an issue as long as: 1) you had a good story why it was
not a fit for you, and 2) why moving to my company, in contrast, is a good fit

While I say "story" above I don't mean something untruthful but rather a
concise, credible, and compelling narrative. Concise - because you want to
quickly get through this part of the interview and onto the "real" stuff.
Credible - because you want me to believe it. Compelling - Because you want
the narrative to show a transition to why you are interested in this new
company and demonstrate that you are not just "looking for any port in a
storm".

------
jobhopthrowaway
Just wanted to add an additional perspective, lending some weight to a few
others here.

I assume I'd be considered a mid-level developer, over 6 years out of school,
with a master's, though I've been called a "senior software engineer" at
times, mostly for billing purposes. I've held 6 positions since school,
ranging from 6 months to just over 2 years. I've been in my most recent for
about a year and a half, and am considering making another move.

In nearly every interview, I get asked about why I've changed jobs so
frequently. The 6-month stints have mostly been about culture, other job
changes have mostly been boredom or frustration. Many interviewers have been
sympathetic to my issues, and maybe some even see it as a good thing -
learning quickly, contributing fast, etc, all look good, especially when
you're young.

As I've gotten older/deeper into my career, the questions have changed
somewhat. Instead of "why did you leave," it's becoming more of "why do you
leave so often? Did you try to work it out with your manager? What assurances
do I have that you'll stay?" It's critical to have solid answers to those
questions, assuming you even get in the door. Unfortunately too, I have gotten
passed over several times even for an interview because of it - many employers
in my region are either larger (so more traditional views on employee
tenures), or very small, so looking for low-churn employees that are willing
to make longer-term investments in being more of a "family." Those smaller
companies also tend not to be high-growth or high-margin companies, hence why
they tend towards longer-term views.

To more directly answer some of your questions, in my experience, the longer
your career, the more stability you need to show. Of course this is industry
and locale-specific, but at this point, my average of 1-1.1 years/position is
becoming detrimental to me, and I think employers are probably looking for 2-3
years. I have, as has been suggested, dropped a couple of the shorter and
less-relevant positions from my resume, both to keep it to one page, but also
because as mentioned, a 6 month gap can often hurt you less than a 6 month
job. It's also critical to demonstrate a track record of delivering for the
client, and doing great things. You want your resume to say "if you hire me,
this is exactly the type of thing I can do for you." If you're "efficient and
seeking challenges" as your question indicated, make sure that you can back up
that claim on your resume and interview.

Keep in mind as well the type of company you're applying at. Hiring managers
at startups and big companies are going to have similar rubrics, as many of
the responders below have indicated, but you're going to have a different
rubric for your satisfaction at these places. Find a company, big or small,
where you will enjoy the type of work you're doing, can find projects that you
can sink your teeth into and really own, and also can have a good time (all
the soft stuff like coworkers, office environment, etc). Make sure to find one
that acknowledges your skills and type of worker you are, and can provide
opportunities for rapid growth, tons of learning experiences, and a chance to
deliver. Try to avoid a company where saying "I'm bored" is going to turn you
into a black sheep or flight risk. Find a company where your manager is
interested in your growth as a human and as a developer. And this is not to
say that this only exists in startups or big companies or whatever; some
startups will not have that sort of culture, and some big companies will. I
wish I had the magic bullet for figuring those out - if I did, I probably
would have had better luck finding places I could thrive in.

And now that I've carried on much longer than I thought I would, best of luck
in your potential job search and career!

------
michaelochurch
Me, personally?

My thought is that you should do what will have you learn the fastest. If you
have a good job, try to stick it out 3+ years. You'll learn more. It's faster-
than-linear (for a while) what you learn by sticking with a job. I'm trying to
level up on machine learning, into the big leagues, and you don't get heavy-
duty production experience if you're a rolling stone. There are things you
learn from building and supporting a system over 2+ years that you don't if
you move on before you have the time to really finish anything.

If you're not learning, though, I'd say that you should hop.

If you are, try to stick with it for 3 years at least, and 5-6 (with
promotions) is ideal. Including consulting + career counseling I've seen a lot
of companies (probably 40+ of which I have intimate knowledge) and good jobs
are not the norm (maybe 30%). When you have a good thing, stay the course.

I'd be pretty forgiving of a good candidate with a job-hopping history, but
I'm also at the 99th percentile of progressivism on this sort of issue. I've
seen people get utterly raped by the job hopper stigma, and many were people
with normal careers by VC-land standards.

 _How is it considered by hiring managers?_

One hop's not a big deal, but a pattern burns you. Finance and large companies
look down on that, and after 30 you're going to be a lot less interested in
the VC-funded startups (for one thing, they won't be able to afford you unless
you're in management).

I've seen consultants and startup people face this problem when trying to move
into more conservative (stable) industries like finance. They weren't disloyal
and had done nothing wrong, but having been in a world where 18-month tenures
were normal and not unstigmatized (because the only way to move up in the
startup world is to create bidding wars; internal promotion is rare amid the
social damage wrought by 90-hour weeks) made them unable to get, e.g.,
proprietary trading firms (which are very paranoid about IP) to take chances
on them.

Here's a guideline:

    
    
        0-4 months: -6 points (but take it off your CV because even the gap is less damaging)
        5-8 months: -4 points
        9-17 months: -2 points
        18-29 months: 0 points
        30-47 months: +3 points
        48-71 months: +5 points w/ promotions, +1 w/out. 
        72+ months: +7 points w/ continuing promotions, -5 (yes, negative) w/out promotions.

------
Dewie
What's peoples experience with job-hopping vs sticking around and hoping for
raises and/or promotions while sticking to mostly technical roles? I've heard
that the "ladder" for programmers that don't want to eventually go into things
like (project) management can be a bit stunted at some companies.

------
lukio
What, oh kinda like Stephen Elop? I'd say go for it since, you know, #yolo.

