
China unveils draft law to allow fully foreign-owned enterprises - beefman
https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/world/china-unveils-draft-law-to-allow-fully-foreign-owned-enterprises/article26129186.ece
======
toxik
The recent press release of Ai Weiwei comes to mind, perhaps particularly
this:

> There are no clear laws, only interpretations of the law based on the
> Party’s interests. China is not a nation under the rule of law. China is a
> nation under the rule of the Party.

[https://www.gardinermuseum.on.ca/ai-weiwei-releases-
statemen...](https://www.gardinermuseum.on.ca/ai-weiwei-releases-statement-
response-tensions-canada-china-ahead-exhibition-gardiner-museum/)

~~~
awakeasleep
It's frustrating to consider how that same standard applies to the USA.

We certainly have enough laws that everyone is a criminal and selective
enforcement perverts the idea of justice.

Of course, I'm not saying things are equally as corrupt as they are in China,
but we're definitely on the same spectrum. Maybe the difference is, in the
USA, "The Party" includes both big business AND the government.

~~~
toxik
The US has an independent and democratic justice system. They are not on the
same spectrum.

~~~
_delirium
In principle, yes, but the proliferation of broadly defined crimes has made
the formal guarantees much less valuable than they might otherwise be. In
current US law, especially federal criminal law, prosecutors have a _huge_
amount of discretionary power, and the discretion itself, i.e. who they choose
to investigate and charge and who they don't, is subject to very weak judicial
oversight (they can more or less only get in trouble for it if they're dumb
enough to say on the record something like, "I looked for something to charge
this person with because they're black"). And if a federal prosecutor _does_
decide they want to charge you with something and is willing to spend
resources on a fishing expedition, they're pretty likely to find some charge
that will stick.

~~~
swagasaurus-rex
What are some broadly defined crimes I should be careful not to commit?

~~~
roenxi
Well, one that got a bit of press recently is making false statements which I
found out about when they got Flynn for it [0]. I thought it was interesting,
because the test for lying is 'is it material to the case', so there might be
no crime but if you mis-remember some relevant fact while explaining the
situation to government a crime suddenly comes into existence. Particularly
when you are up against entities that potentially have a better idea of your
online and call activity than you do and have lawyers with a better
understanding of what 'material' means.

But realistically, the problem is that America has more laws than anyone can
read and has also developed a secret legal apparatus so has case law on the
books that essentially nobody is allowed to know about [1]. Since an American
can't possibly know what the law is, it seems like a stretch if they claim to
be following it. Particularly if they do something off the beaten track like
run a business, live overseas (byzantine tax system), talk to government
officials (see above) or communicate with other people using the cell phones
or internet (I think teen sexting laws in the US might be a federal crime, for
example, which is sometimes a nasty shock to many minors).

Also note that for all this stuff the tests involve dangerous legal words like
'reasonable' and 'contemporary adult community standards', which we all think
we know what we mean up until it turns out that they mean something slightly
different to everyone and the lawyers have very different standards to on some
topic. Everyone is unreasonable on something, hopefully there not on something
there is a law about, eh?

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intellig...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Court#Secrecy)

~~~
wbl
All you have to do is say "I take the fifth".

~~~
roenxi
I have repeated it 5 times in a variety of different tones. I still don't know
all the law that governs a US citizen, and they would still likely apply to me
if I was in America :P.

You've missed the point. If someone puts a bear trap just outside my door it
is easy to avoid - just hop over it. That doesn't change the fact that there
is a bear trap outside my door. The whole point here is there are so many laws
on the books that just talking to a federal agent is potentially
incriminating, which is what is being part of what is being acknowledged by
pleading the 5th immediately and getting a lawyer.

Also, if I don't know about the bear trap, there is a very high chance I will
get caught in it even though it is easy to avoid.

------
crazy5sheep
And the Chinese govt can also have a thousand different ways other than law to
harass foreign-owned companies. that said these law means nothing to real
business in long-run, but just a response which attempts to fool the US govt
for stopping the trade war.

~~~
DeonPenny
This time though the US plan on having a mechanism to allow them to swiftly
punish china for using those abilities unlike before. Quartley reviews and
what not with mandatory tariffs.

------
starpucks
And.... would you believe them? Would a corporation sink billions into there
knowing full well they can come up with arbitrary laws to get their way? How
about if there is a war fought, would you believe that they won’t sieze all
the assets? How about getting money out of their country? And how about
subjecting your company to the inevitable corporate espionage that will
happen? Would their court system actually protect your company? Hmmmmmmm

~~~
chrischen
Yes they already do that. Even Taiwanese companies like foxconn and HTC.

~~~
mistermann
The China of today seems less safe than the China of ten years ago though. Are
foreign companies making big investments lately?

~~~
chrischen
Yes, Apple had done as well as an investment into Didi. You'll notice a lot of
western brands in China from Mars (M&M), Nestle, General Motors, etc.

~~~
mistermann
The Apple investment was almost three years ago, were the others more recent?

[https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-china/apple-
invests...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-china/apple-
invests-1-billion-in-chinese-ride-hailing-service-didi-chuxing-idUSKCN0Y404W)

~~~
chrischen
Probably, but I’m not Google. Feel free to research yourself.

~~~
mistermann
I don't particularly care one way or the other, I was simply asking for
evidence of your assertion that it _does_ happen _lately_. Playing devil's
advocate I think it's sometimes called.

>>>>> Would a corporation sink billions into there knowing full well they can
come up with arbitrary laws to get their way?

>>>> Yes they already do that. Even Taiwanese companies like foxconn and HTC.

>>> The China of today seems less safe than the China of ten years ago though.
Are foreign companies making big investments _lately_?

>> _Yes_ , Apple had done as well as an investment into Didi. You'll notice _a
lot_ of western brands in China from Mars (M&M), Nestle, General Motors, etc.

> The Apple investment was almost _three years ago_ , were the others more
> recent?

------
baybal2
Misnomer here, wholly foreign owned companies were there there for more than a
decade. What the law is said to do is to remove "qualitative distinctions" in
between 3 foreign owned company types.

It will not end the prohibition on foreign ownership in restricted industries.

What it will do is that the state will not be allowed to say "you can't do
that, but we will let you do it in a joint venture"

Now, the question in between doing a JV and setting up an own company is up to
an applicant in every industry.

------
sonnyblarney
Here's another gem of a 'law', Constitutional no less:

"Article 35 of the 1982 State Constitution proclaims that "citizens of the
People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly,
of association, of procession, and of demonstration.""

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_People%27s...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China)

~~~
logicchains
"Article 51. Non-infringement of rights

Citizens of the People's Republic of China, in exercising their freedoms and
rights, may not infringe upon the interests of the state, of society or of the
collective, or upon the lawful freedoms and rights of other citizens."

So technically those rights may only be exercised when they don't "infringe
upon the interests of the state".

------
mmwelt
So what's the difference between WFOE's (Wholly Foreign-Owned Enterprises[1])
and the new fully foreign-owned enterprises? WFOE's have existed for a while.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wholly_Foreign-
Owned_Enterpris...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wholly_Foreign-
Owned_Enterprise)

------
forkLding
Ironically it seems in the comments that making this law means no difference,
if so whats the point of a trade war.

~~~
gred
Great question. My own reactions over the past months have been something
along the lines of (1) "Not the best execution, but maybe we'll see some
positive change..." -> (2) "Cool, looks like things may actually change!" ->
(3) "Wait a minute, I don't trust that this is real... so what's the end
game??"

------
rhegart
Good work Trump. The one thing I absolutely love about his administration is
the pressure on China. Didn’t back down from all the pressure from literally
every group. His method works, he’s getting concessions. The TPP at its best
would be 1/100th as effective and would have taken 20+ years to implement. Our
cyberwar truce was a joke policy.

~~~
justaguyhere
_His method works_

Okay, can you list _real, permanent, verifiable_ changes as a result of his
"method" (whatever that is)?

Anyone can get empty promises, empty laws that have no teeth etc for PR
purposes...

------
jorblumesea
Why would you ever believe anything China says? Their game is clear and
obvious at this point. Avoid that country like the plague if you care about
the longevity of your business.

------
walrus01
Foreign Owned Enterprises, like the one Erik Prince is setting up to help
train armed government law enforcement authorities in Xinjiang province?

[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/01/business/erik-prince-
xinj...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/01/business/erik-prince-xinjiang-
china-fsg-blackwater.html)

