
Ask HN: Unable to detach emotionally from work? - throwawayzza
I really care about my work and I&#x27;m having a hard time taking a more relaxed approach after a few incidents at the workplace.<p>I don&#x27;t work well in agile environments with strict tasks and sprints because I&#x27;m all over the place doing project work but also fixing a lot of small things that pile up (and nobody cares to fix).<p>Lately, I&#x27;ve been asked why I&#x27;m working on these things when there are other things to do. there are always other things to do.<p>Attemtps to communicate with other teams to sync and improve processes were also shutdown... because it&#x27;s not my responsibility and the team leads felt threatened.<p>Anyway, I told my boss I&#x27;d strictly  work on my Sprint tasks and not making a single extra contribution (in these exact words).<p>Fast forward a few weeks, here I&#x27;m again doing more than I&#x27;ve been asked and getting passive-aggressive responses.<p>I can&#x27;t quit this job right now. How do I care less?
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counterpoint1
Focus on being "good at your job" not at "making everything better" or
whatever you're doing now.

What you think of as doing extra work also ends up causing extra work for
other people. You say "Attemtps to communicate with other teams to sync and
improve processes were also shutdown... because it's not my responsibility and
the team leads felt threatened" \- it's almost certainly not that your team
lead "felt threatened" (wtf?) but because you caused an extra hassle for them
by causing confusion among your coworkers about the processes and practices
for communication, documentation or decision-making.

Your time spent "fixing a lot of small things" that nobody cares about means
other people have to code review, QA test, merge, deploy etc your work, which
as you stated, was not scheduled/prioritized/desired.

An important part of being a team is playing your role, which includes not
interfering with other people doing theirs. You see yourself as an
unappreciated hero picking up the slack for everyone else, but everyone else
sees you as an unpredictable wildcard causing confusion and extra work. Just
focus on doing your job well and let the whole team thrive.

~~~
throwawayzza
_> What you think of as doing extra work also ends up causing extra work for
other people_

This is a very good point but none of the things you mentioned are happening
to other people (code review, QA, merge, deploy). Maybe that clarifies the
kind of environment I'm working with.

In any case, I understand that even if more work is not being done, more
stress is being caused because people just assume things will break in
unimaginable ways. I can appreciate how that would be a problem for others.

 _> everyone else sees you as an unpredictable wildcard causing confusion and
extra work_

Thanks for the harsh truth. Would you say the kind of work I'm doing has a
place in any other type of company? Or at all?

------
bedane
Anecdotal(worked for me and a friend):

Find another activity (hobby, sports, taking care of someone, meditation,
side-project, anything) and gradually have it replace work in your head.

You won't be able to "detach from work" because the mind (especially in people
who like to think) doesn't work this way. You'll have to expel it/push it out.

Any time you catch yourself thinking about work in an emotional way, or
outside your office hours, force yourself to shut it down and think about the
other activity you chose as replacement.

This process took me years but it's really been worth the effort.

~~~
throwawayzza
That seems like the best action for me. Thanks!

------
wolco
Don't do extra things. Let the sprints guide you. Try to make your code
better. The place doesn't want you to do these cleanup tasks without them
being approved in a sprint. So next sprint meeting suggest it and only do it
if it gets approved.

~~~
throwawayzza
I feel the planning done by management doesn't let me feel proud about the
work I'm doing. That's the emotional component I'm struggling with.

I've been told the things I raise as necessary to be done "will be done in the
future" but they never are and I'm not given good reasons for why not. Most of
the time it's because people don't consider them important (see my other
comment for examples).

So I kind of rebel against that in a way and, while I think my output is
better, I'm not appreciated for that and worse, might get reprimanded.

------
codegeek
You need to first understand why you are getting passive-aggressive responses.
Just because you think you are doing "other things that no one cares about",
it doesn't mean it aligns with what your Manager/Team/Company needs from you
to ensure you are effective at the job you were hired for.

Superstars in a team are easy to spot. They not only get their stuff done but
do other things that help the bottomline. Problem is that sometimes you may
think you are helping the team by doing other things, but you are probably
doing it at the cost of your own work.

------
itronitron
You are being micro-managed, it's worth comparing your current work
environment to what you were told it would be like when you hired on.

If there is a large difference between the position description and reality
then you may be able to push back with the hiring manager so that you are
given more autonomy to prioritize tasks during sprints.

Ideally your management should be asking you to first do items in set X and
then giving you time to work on tasks that you prioritize.

This is why I prefer Kanban over Scrum as Kanban doesn't limit the set of
tasks per sprint as Scrum does.

~~~
throwawayzza
It's funny that you mention that because we used to do Kanban and switched to
Scrum because that was what all other teams were doing, and "it helps with the
reports".

I think I see a lot of tech debt and I want to solve it. I'll admit there are
situations where I'm purely being extra zealous and I shouldn't and I'm trying
to work on that.

I agree with the micro-management part too. If at least we were aligned and I
was micro-managed for doing things management and I agree on, it wouldn't feel
so bad. But the way things are right now, I feel like I might get fired for
doing extra work, which is a first for me.

~~~
celticmusic
I don't necessarily think you're being micromanaged, but I can tell you I
dislike agile and one of the reasons for that is because despite what people
say, it's segmented as shit and typically prevents you from doing good work.

And when I say it prevents you from doing good work, I mean it. The last
company I was at did scrum and I found it difficult to even call someone up to
have a chat about things without blowback. My "PM", aka manager, insisted that
he was a requirements gathering bot, and any attempt at requirements gathering
that didn't go through him was promptly shut down. And by shut down I mean 2
weeks into the job I had a meeting with someone about a new feature and 15
minutes into it this "PM" magically shows up and completely derails the
conversation. nothing got done. The next day I recieve an email from the
manager of the person I had the meeting with declaring that all meetings going
forward would have her in it. When I questioned why with my manager I was
quietly pulled off of that project, and I watched the other developer on it
come back from every single meeting over the next 2-3 months repeatedly saying
he still had no idea what they wanted.

It was like trying to develop in a straight jacket. The final straw for me is
when I had asked some questions over an email and the VP over that department
didn't like the questions and told my direct manager to write me up over it
(he told me this directly). That was on a thursday, I had an offer for 20
hours/week by the end of friday (enough to live on), and basically told them
to go fuck themselves. I made it very clear to them that it only took me a day
and they're not going to keep any talent acting like that.

On the flip side, I've been working on another project as a freelancer for the
past 8 months (with a break in the middle) with another developer, and this
guy just wreaks havoc on everything he touches. Just last week I looked at
something else he did, sat back and said out loud "how is it that I disagree
with literally every decision you make?".

This guy would rewrite everything I wrote. He would take the idea and just
restructure because he wanted to. Only, in such an overengineered manner that
I'm just kind of miffed at what he's doing. I remember after about the 3rd
month I just called the owner of the project up and straight up told him they
need to stop paying me because he's _literally_ rewritten every piece of code
I've written. I told them in no uncertain terms that I would take _no_
responsibility for the quality of the work because none of it was actually
mine, they're just paying for everything twice. I straight up told them they
need to get rid of the guy.

fast forward to 8 months and that same owner asked me to come back on board
and told me directly that the company was going to be paying the cost of
having this man work on their stuff and they're planning on releasing him.
Why? Because a 2-4 week project isn't stable 8 months later and it's actively
put their business in danger.

So I'm now working 40 hours a week and have completely replaced the income
from that shitty company.

My point is this: I've seen both sides of it and just w/i the last year. You
need to do serious thinking to determine which side of this coin you're on,
and make the changes you need to make.

If you're in a company like that, get the hell out because you're too good and
you're going to hate your life there. If you're like that man, you need to be
kept in check and grown because you're not experienced enough to be left to
your own devices without actively putting businesses at risk.

------
tjchear
It's in my experience that when one elects to keep themselves busy with A
instead of B, it's because they're more adept at A than at B. Doing B requires
one to get out of their comfort zone, and doing A let's them believe they're
making progress while avoiding having to think about B.

Now that's just me, maybe it's different for you.

If I may ask: how are the sprint tasks different from the other small things
you feel compelled to do?

~~~
throwawayzza
_> B requires one to get out of their comfort zone, and doing A let's them
believe they're making progress while avoiding having to think about B_

There's definitely some of that.

 _> If I may ask: how are the sprint tasks different from the other small
things you feel compelled to do?_

Sprint tasks are almost always about new features. The other tasks are more
about maintenance and tech debt.

For example, my Sprint task will be about feature X. When I'm adding tests for
X, I realize this particular repo has been neglected and is using very
outdated dependencies, not following CI best practices we're using
everywhereetc. So doing all that slows me down but I feel it's the right thing
to do. Others disagree and don't see any problem with that.

Or our monitoring system started to spill out false positives a lot (or I took
a look at that just this week), and I need to adjust things so the oncall
doesn't keep being woken up unnecessarily. Or worse, they just keep pushing
the ignore button.

Or the code I'm working on is using a database that's behind updates and is
missing security updates.

There's a lot of yak shaving if I'm to look at the whole thing and feel proud
about it.

~~~
tjchear
Hey, that's the mark of a great engineer. I'm sorry your peers did not see the
value in what you do.

My armchair diagnosis is you and your company are a poor fit for each other at
this phase of the company. You have probably already surmised that you'd do
better at large corporations or companies not focused on growth, but on
greasing and sustaining their existing products.

Since you mention that you can't quit this job, there are several options you
can consider:

1\. Internal transfer to another team, if possible.

2\. Start looking for other opportunities that are more aligned with what you
do.

3\. Be mindful of priorities and timelines. Visualize and draw the timeline on
a piece of paper if you have to, and understand that it's physically
impossible to do both new feature and the small tasks, and still meet the
deadline. Hopefully doing so helps you to see the big picture as the company
sees it, and lets you override your compulsion. Write this down on a sticky
note as a reminder and stick it on your monitor if you have to.

~~~
trilinearnz
I agree with this. The OP is demonstrating a level of conscientiousness,
professionalism and self-agency that a lot of companies would like from their
developers who only do what they are told to do. See: Theory X and Theory Y
management (don't want to work vs. want to work).

However my only addition to what the poster above mentioned, is be wary of the
perils of the consequences of continually updating dependencies as this can be
a never-ending spiral. If your organisation lacks the labour to maintain
projects properly, your efforts may well be more sensibly allocated towards
the greenfields areas you are being asked to focus on.

