
DNA from cigarette leads to Dakota Access arrest warrant 3 years later - anigbrowl
https://kfgo.com/news/articles/2019/sep/06/dna-from-cigarette-leads-to-dakota-access-arrest-3-years-later/934803/
======
nimbius
This whole protest always seemed pretty dystopian to me. The fact that the
government of North Dakota is still combing the scene for DNA leads to
prosecute additional protestors 3 years later after having acquitted or
probated nearly 400 of them seems to imply this is quite a witch hunt.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakota_Access_Pipeline_protest...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakota_Access_Pipeline_protests)

> In September 2016, construction workers bulldozed a section of land the
> tribe had identified as sacred ground and when protesters entered the area
> security workers used attack dogs which bit at least six of the protesters
> and one horse.

>At least six protesters were treated for dog bites, and an estimated 30 were
pepper-sprayed before the guards and their dogs left the scene in trucks.

>In May 2017, internal TigerSwan documents leaked to The Intercept and other
documents obtained through public records requests revealed a close
collaboration between the pipeline company and local, state, and federal law
enforcement as they carried out "military-style counterterrorism measures" to
suppress the protesters.

~~~
markdown
> security workers used attack dogs which bit at least six of the protesters
> and one horse.

How many years did the security workers get in jail? In my country that would
be quite a few for "intent to cause grievous bodily harm"

------
segmondy
"we only collect DNA for violent crimes" right!

we need to remember this as they push for facial recognition, gait
recognition, voice recognition, etc.

~~~
sieabahlpark
They left quite a trash pile when they left at the expense of to the Dakota
taxpayers

~~~
mattnewton
It was mentioned elsewhere, but it is hard to pack up when you are fleeing
attack dogs, carried off in cuffs, or being pepper sprayed.

Besides the fact that that isn’t one of the charges filed here, and the cost
of cleaning up litter can’t possible compare to the amount of police work
spent to hunt down this person.

------
acollins1331
I wonder if there will ever be enough of a political pushback on this stuff to
change anything? I feel like people that care about privacy and not having a
dystopian government are always going to be the minority. What needs to happen
for normal people to start to care?

~~~
robotron
It will have to occur to someone they care about or themselves. By then it
will be too late.

~~~
kgwxd
But that will only change the mindset of the person it directly affects, and
only maybe. Somehow, it needs to become part of the system, by default,
whether most people care about it or not. Once it's in place, any stray from
that default needs to be met with instant backlash from within the system
itself to keep it in position. It's a never ending fight.

------
capableweb
Seems to be missing an explanation on how they managed to figure out whoever
smoked that cigarette was involved in the riot. Is there videos of that
specific cigarette being thrown on the ground or something like that?

~~~
whoisjuan
Reaching that conclusion is pretty simple. At least simple and straight
forward enough to charge someone. Probably not as simple to get an actual
conviction.

I think this is what happened. They probably found several cigarette butts
inside the perimeter of the vandalized private property, they ran DNA tests
for all of them and one matched this guy's DNA. There are only a few possible
reasons for his DNA to be inside that perimeter:

1) He was a contractor doing work for the Dakota Access Pipeline operator
(probably already ruled out, otherwise he wouldn't have been charged).

2) Somebody took his butt from outside and put it inside the perimeter (very
unlikely).

3) He actually smoked that cigarette and dropped the butt in that location
while he was vandalizing it (most likely scenario from the prosecution point
of view).

4) He trespassed the property at a different time and smoked and dropped the
cigarette butt at that time. This is still an unlawful behavior but is
probably better than all the other charges. (This is a possible scenario but
it would be pretty hard for his defense to demonstrate this is what actually
happened).

Again. This is enough for prosecutors to charge this guy but it doesn't mean
at all that this is good evidence to get a conviction. In my humble opinion, a
cigarette butt with your DNA is pretty weak evidence in this particular case.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
If he had an alibi for (3), then (4) would be plausible to show.

~~~
whoisjuan
Yes, that's true. 4 is not that unlikely actually. He could have trespassed
with no intention of doing harm. We don't know how the location looks like,
but it's possible that it was just an open construction job site, so
trespassing would have been as simple as just walking in.

------
jessehorne
I went to North Dakota when the camp was at its height. It was incredibly
beautiful and inspiring.

~~~
aaronax
I lived in North Dakota during it's height and 30 years prior. It was a
ridiculous protest driven by emotional overreaction to a normal construction
proceeding (the Missouri had already been crossed near Williston by the same
pipeline).

It had a disruptive negative impact on many of the surrounding communities.
And the state was left with a huge mess to clean up after all the protestors
left.

~~~
anigbrowl
It's hard to believe that those pushing people off the land for trespass in
forcible fashion would have decided to delay a day if they had pointed out the
they needed time to clean up their campsite. Did you really think that
argument through, or was it just a convenient way to express a negative
opinion?

------
sys_64738
How do you prove the evidence wasn’t tampered with in the intervening years?
Are we to trust the police evidence gathering and storage techniques for that
long?

------
aussieguy1234
First it's these protesters in the US, next this will be used against Hong
Kong protestors

------
zonidjan
We don't live in a surveillance state! We have all these rights and everything
to prove it!

------
blt
Daily reminder that police exist to protect the "property" of the ruling
class.

~~~
dang
Maybe so, but please don't post unsubstantive comments to HN. Especially not
ideological flamebait slogans.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

~~~
anigbrowl
That seems rather biased, Dan. While the 'daily reminder' bit is snarky
dismissing it as mere flamebait or soganeering is unjustified and veers into
trying to control the discussion. It's quite relevant considering the context.

~~~
dang
It simply repeats a slogan that's favored by one side of the ideological abyss
and rejected by the other. Therefore there's only a single bit of information
in it, the bit that signals which side the comment is on. An HN comment needs
more than one bit of information to count as substantive.

------
draw_down
I’m sure our intrepid freedom of speech crusaders will be along to decry this
any moment now!

~~~
deogeo
I'll decry it - for the growing surveillance state that shows how difficult
it's getting to anonymously protest, for the corporate-skewed use of police
resources (I'm sure more serious crimes went under-investigated while they
were busy doing DNA analysis on every piece of trash from the protest), and
for the chilling effect of prosecuting on the mere basis of presence at a
protest. There's always a chance protests will get out of hand, and few people
would attend if merely being there resulted in being prosecuted for everything
the protest as a whole did wrong.

I also cried "censorship!" when 8chan got kicked off Cloudflare, when Facebook
banned white nationalism, and when a cartoonist was fired from a rural
newspaper after criticizing agribusiness.

I hope this helps you to a less strawman-like view of free-speech crusaders.

~~~
fzeroracer
The problem is that what garners the attention of said free-speech crusaders
tends to be wildly unbalanced.

The issues of FB banning white nationalism and 8chan being kicked off of
cloudflare incited a massive thread and attention here on HN. Then you have
stories like this one with the government itself engaging in very selective
measures in attempt to censure people and it doesn't gain nearly the same
amount of attention as it should.

I've posted various similar stories here on HN and there is a very obvious
slant towards what 'violations' of freedom of speech invoke a larger response
here on HN or across the various tech communities.

~~~
deogeo
Are you sure they didn't get more attention from free-speech crusaders simply
because they got more coverage in the media?

Speaking for myself, I see stories of government prosecution used to stifle
speech extremely rarely (unless we count every instance of the cops getting
too rough with protestors). Which is not to say it _happens_ rarely, it's just
not reported on much.

There's another aspect to this, I think. Cops have been arresting protesters
for centuries - we've reached equilibrium there. But censorship by globe-
spanning private companies is new, as is the growing share of communication
controlled by them. Which makes it scarier, and harder to predict if it'll get
much worse in the coming decades.

------
RcouF1uZ4gsC
A crime was committed , and DNA evidence is being used to solve the crime. How
is this any different than using DNA evidence to solve other crimes?

Also, I find it interesting that a person who was there presumably out of
respect for the environment, is polluting the environment by his smoking and
littering.

~~~
kennywinker
I have three replies:

1\. is civil disobedience a crime, or the duty of all engaged citizens?

2\. dna proves he was present AT SOME POINT, at that location, but not that he
did anything illegal. I suspect they don't actually need to win the case, they
just want to chase this guy down to chill further protests.

3\. while I don't like cigarette butts littered around either, the
environmental impact of a cigarette and its filter is so far outweighed by the
impact of the pipeline in question. To compare the two is ridiculous.

~~~
cjensen
The _whole point_ of civil disobedience is to intentionally commit a non-
violent and non-destructive crime.

If there is no crime, in the US it's just a lawful protest as permitted by the
First Amendment.

~~~
kennywinker
Pardon, you are right. I'm actually not trying to say that the action itself
is not illegal, just that I believe the RIGHT thing to do is consider
political actions differently from un-politically motivated actions. To
potentially punish or pursue them less (protest, civil disobedience) or more
(hate crimes, corruption, terrorism).

~~~
droithomme
The protest was not illegal. Stop saying it was.

~~~
ci5er
I was not there, and I am not up on all the facts, but was there not criminal
trespass and destruction of property?

~~~
anigbrowl
Do you really want to live in a country where DNA evidence is used years after
the fact to prosecute people for trespass? Bear in mind that DNA only
establishes the accused's presence at the scene, and not the nature of any
actions taken there beyond the smoking of the cigarette the DNA was obtained
from.

~~~
ci5er
Uuuh. No. Did I imply that somehow?

Either I can't write (which is possible) or you can't read (which is also
possible), but where did that come from?

~~~
anigbrowl
In your previous comment where you alluded to trespass. Surely you are aware
that mere presence isn't proof of having committed vandalism absent other
evidence that would render the DNA identification moot.

