
Why aren’t location-based networks growing like they were expected to? - emilam
http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/10/23/why-wont-location-based-networks-grow/
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callmeed
Maybe I'm too old to "get it" or maybe it's because I'm not in an urban area,
but I really don't see the value-add in location-based social networks. I use
Twitter a lot and I use Facebook a good amount. How does adding a _location
component_ improve the overall experience for me?

It doesn't.

I already know when my close friends are in town or out of town. _If I want to
know what they're doing on a Saturday night, I'll text them_. It's 5x faster
than launching an app and looking for their marker on a map.

Oh, and that chunk of the population that–like me–are married and have
children ... I don't need a Gowalla or Foursquare to tell me where they are.
They're most likely at work or at home. And they're using Facebook to connect
with their friends–because their location doesn't matter.

You can argue that they just _"need to gain traction"_ or _"need to grow
faster"_ , but maybe the answer to this title is that _they simply aren't any
more useful than Facebook_.

Location-based services are great for local commerce, probably great for
dating, maybe handy at large events/conferences, but for basic social
networking ... meh.

~~~
spidaman
Among the problems I see with most of these services is that they don't
provide anything meaningful to socialize _about_ that is unique to mobile and
location based data. For general social banter, facebook seems to have won the
turf. To your point, if you're no longer in the hooking up or carousing with
friends demo, these apps have seemingly nothing for you.

All that said, I think there's tremendous value potential for overlapping
virtual and physical communities. I just think all of these players have been
too early and lacking imagination to strike a hit. Now that location aware
devices are nearly ubiquitous, the next steps are commodifying and
standardizing location data, APIs, etc. It seems inevitable. If there's
anything that's going to yank me from consulting/contracting back into full-
time startup hackery, it'll be something along these lines.

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jacquesm
\- there is a hardware requirement

\- there is stalking potential

\- people don't yet know that they exist

It's very early days, expect this to explode somewhere in the next two years.
The people that are using this now are the early adopters. It's like in-car
navigation, or CD players, a mobile phone or a facebook account.

Like that you have a 'novelty' and people argue if it is even useful and like
that everybody has one.

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cousin_it
This:

 _I installed Loopt on my iPhone when it was launched more than a year ago. I
stopped using it soon after, since none of my Facebook friends or Gmail
contacts were on it. Now it has more than a million users, so last week I
installed it again — along with several other apps — but I didn’t have much
luck this time either._

...illustrates why we need to open up the social graph. It's stupid that every
new social feature or business has to build its own registration, friending
mechanics, etc., or consent to live in a walled garden of one proprietary
social network. Brad Fitzpatrick (of LiveJournal fame, now at Google) has long
promoted this idea, e.g. see <http://bradfitz.com/social-graph-problem/> .
Unfortunately it's still very much an open problem. OpenID is one piece of the
puzzle, but the rest is still missing.

I'm kinda sorta looking into writing Facebook apps right now, and can vouch
that I'd be much less reluctant to dive in if the platform were open.

~~~
ugh
Uh, that sounds like a privacy nightmare. Well, one could argue that existing
social networks are already a nightmare, I guess. So much of the damage is
already done.

~~~
cousin_it
What nightmare? Facebook lets you control what non-friends can see, an open
platform could do the same.

~~~
gaius
I think many people _like_ that their LinkedIn and Facebook personas are
completely separate.

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kilps
Why couldn't an open system allow for different profiles? E.g. personal,
professional and public. Facebook has started to get the right idea with its
lists feature - but there needs to be far more control - a completely separate
profile, option to target statuses to certain groups etc.

Inevitably the solution will be a decentralised social network which other
providers can tap into - core functionality such as profiles (and location?)
should be as portable as a wordpress blog: either I get someone else to host
it or I host it myself.

~~~
fauigerzigerk
I think one problem is that users want more than just share and hide
information selectively. I want each of my "friends" to believe that I share
everything with them because they are soooo super special.

If my "friends" know that I'm hiding something from them, they feel bad, and
they may not be my "friends" for much longer.

~~~
olefoo
But is that true of business contacts, casual aquaintances? Some guy who's
going to sublet your apartment while you're on sabbatical?

I would hope that my friends don't feel left out if they aren't getting my
complete output stream. If someone did, I would find it odd and possibly
creepy depending on the context.

~~~
fauigerzigerk
I agree that in many cases it shouldn't be a problem. But if everyone has one
or two real friends who might be disappointed, that's enough to destroy the
idea.

But it probably depends on whether people use social networks for managing a
broad range of contacts or to keep in touch with close friends and family.

The general problem is that some things can change dramatically as soon as
they become explicit, even when nothing of substance has changed.

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gstar
I think that the location based networks are _probably_ growing how you'd
expect.

The exemplary demographic willing to have their location disclosed (with the
biggest upside from doing so) is the 16-25 year old groups of mutual friends
that live close together.

I'd expect the adoption rate to grow over time, but not as quickly as the more
anonymous social networks.

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easp
Because these apps all started with the idea: Location based mobile
advertising is going to huge. I gotta get me some of that. Hmmm. Hey, social
networks are big...what if we do a location based social network?

The problem is, it is a stupid damn idea. I mean, think about it. Not only do
most of your friends need to be using Loopt (or whatever) they have to be at
about the same place at about the same time, but not so close that you an
already see eachother. There are just too damn many things that have to line
up.

So, it is no surprise that they are trying to loosen constraints. Most of them
ditched the time constraint earlier this year. The focus moved from meeting up
to sharing experiences. They've also been ditching the constraint that you
already need to know someone else using the service. Loopt Mix is about
meeting new people.

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eam
The why may be a matter of whether you own a smart phone or not. People tend
to have more desktops/laptops than smart phones. I believe most location based
networks rely on smart phones capabilities. For example before I didn't have
an iPhone, so I didn't have a loopt account, now that I have an iPhone I use
loopt. Other social networks are easily accessible with either phones or
computers therefore a greater user market.

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whatusername
There was a post recently about how hotmail took off. My friend in SF could
email me here in Australia and hotmail would instantly be useful. Location
stuff like this fails for that reason. What value do I have in being the first
one in my city to adopt it. See also: Craigslist - anywhere but the few cities
it dominates in.

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minalecs
Im very surprised, that people fail to see Yelp mobile as a location based
service. Their location based services, finding restaurants and reviews are
probably the most I use right now. GraffitiGeo ( purchased by loopt, and y
comp), offers almost the same feature set as Yelp as well. Just wondering what
is the distinction ?

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prabodh
Its strange .. Social networks like Facebook, orkut have a very high share in
mobile internet usage...But still the growth of Location based mobile
networking seems to be not that high...I would still expect there will be
growth once there is heavy integration of the app with local information,deals
etc..

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jodrellblank
Apps that help you live in each other's pockets? You'll be pushing for
communal living next.

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jsz0
Most of these apps seem to be based on the idea that an individual is in a
location with no predefined plans/destination and a lack of familiarity with
the area. Sounds great for travel but in my everyday life that's just not a
realistic problem.

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SlyShy
Without widespread adoption these apps aren't very useful. But I don't see
that they are able to convince people to sign up very effectively. A lot of
people don't have capable devices yet, either.

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gaius
Surprised Latitude isn't mentioned - this is by far the most popular location
network amongst my friends.

~~~
milkshakes
Can you tell us a little more about yourself? Starting with where you are
based and what you (or your friends) use location networks for?

