
Bosch to be carbon neutral worldwide by 2020 - vitro
https://www.bosch-press.be/pressportal/be/en/press-release-17984.html
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l_camacho84
This is good news but sadly they don’t talk about transportation as normally
they are not considered as a problem of the manufacturer.

Maritime and airplane transportation emissions not being considered in Paris
agreement illustrate this problem.

Other thing is planned obsolescence. I wonder what is being made in the
company to design products to last a lifetime.

~~~
batmenace
Well at least on the consumer side, my perception has always been that their
brand revolves around solidly built products that last long. We have a bunch
of power tools that must be like 20 years old and still work like new.

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qntty
Can anyone who knows more about this than me comment on whether buying carbon
offsets is more than just a PR move? Props for investment in green energy
though.

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ghostly_s
All carbon offsets are not created equal (in fact, most of them are bogus).
There are alternative energy companies in our "deregulated" energy market here
in Illinois who will sell you "100% clean electricity" in the form of offsets.
These offsets represent things like wind farms in Texas that were built years
ago -- buying a "credit" for this electricity does nothing to add new
renewable capacity to the grid, remove more carbon from the atmosphere, or
change our emissions landscape in any way whatsoever. Credits for _new_
renewable generating capacity one could argue to be a positive thing, but this
market is pretty much entirely unregulated now and most of these products are
not much more than accounting tricks.

~~~
wlesieutre
_> These offsets represent things like wind farms in Texas that were built
years ago -- buying a "credit" for this electricity does nothing to add new
renewable capacity to the grid, remove more carbon from the atmosphere, or
change our emissions landscape in any way whatsoever_

The producer being able to sell those credits going forward is what made the
plant economical to build in the first place.

How are other credits for "new renewable capacity" any different? That new
plant is going to be producing renewable energy and selling renewable energy
credits for long after it gets built. The projected returns from selling those
credits is part of the financing they used to build it.

If more people are trying to buy RECs, the market value of those RECs goes up,
and it enables more producers to invest in new renewable capacity because
they'll be able to sell RECs for more money.

Of course the additional credits on the market could push prices back down if
a lot gets built (woo fucking hoo, that's what we're trying to encourage!),
and the market demand for more credits to purchase is also increasing as
governments pass requirements for XX% renewable capacity by YYYY year.

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wlesieutre
More background on these here:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_Energy_Certificate_(...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_Energy_Certificate_\(United_States\))

A short summary:

1) A producer gets a REC for putting 1 MWh into the grid from renewable
generation. This energy mixes in with all the other energy on the grid, it
doesn't go anywhere in particular.

2) The producer sells this REC on the market.

3) The consumer who buys the REC is considered to have purchased renewable
energy, either to meet renewable energy requirements or just for their own
personal reasons because it's a good thing to do.

In 29 states, DC, and PR, they have "Renewable Portfolio Standards" which
require electric suppliers to have a certain amount of renewable energy in
their production portfolio. They can own this production capacity and make the
RECs themselves, or they could burn natural gas and buy a bunch of RECs from a
third party, or even a bunch of people with solar panels on their roofs.

Beyond those 29 states, people also buy them just to say "We run on clean
energy." A friend of mine has an electric car and buys renewable energy to go
with it. Did the actual electrons in his car come from a wind turbine? No, but
he's helping make wind power more economically viable through the renewable
energy credits.

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semi-extrinsic
"Bosch to buy lots of carbon offsets by 2020." Without any breakdown on how
much is just buying carbon credits, and without any comparison to emissions
further down in their supply chain, I'm skeptical about whether this is
meaningful.

~~~
scrooched_moose
> Carbon offsets are to be gradually scaled back by 2030, and Bosch is
> stepping up investments in renewable energies to this end.

They're temporary until they get their renewable energy infrastructure in
place. Not ideal, but they seem to have a plan.

~~~
semi-extrinsic
So in the longer term we're still left with the question, how much of the
total emissions (including supply chain) of Bosch is due to Bosch's use of
electricity?

If somebody makes a battery final assembly plant in Iceland, and run it on
geothermal energy only, but buy battery cells manufactured in China with
energy from a brown coal powerplant, it's not so interesting that the 1% of
emissions from final assembly was removed.

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rjzzleep
I kinda like Bosch and props to them for their investment, but isn't
offsetting CO2 kinda like sending your trash to China and then complaining how
they ruin the planet?

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weinzierl
> I kinda like Bosch

Bosch is indeed interesting because it is over 90% owned by a charitable
foundation, the rest is family property.

~~~
clarry
Damn, now I feel like I made the wrong choice when I bought into the Ryobi
One+ power tools. Would be nice if we just had batteries that are compatible
across different manufacturers' lines. Sigh.

~~~
sjs382
As long as the voltage is the same, you can buy or make (3d printed plus a
little bit of wiring—you can find files on thingiverse) adapters.

The 20V line of DeWalt, Porter Cable and Craftsman are all compatible with
slight modifications to the plastic on the battery housing.

I know that's too much effort for most people, but it's nice to know that it's
_possible_.

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racecar789
Bosch owns Dremel. I sent-in my five year old Dremel rotary tool for repair,
along with payment info, fully expecting to get charged. I even noted on the
repair slip "feel free to charge me for the repair".

Instead, Bosch sent back a completely refurbished Dremel in almost brand new
condition for free.

I was like, damn they just earned a customer for life.

Anyhow, I know I am biased but I have a little faith this carbon initiative is
legit.

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perfunctory
Let's not fall for this corporate propaganda and delude ourselves into
thinking that a profit seeking entity will somehow pay "social dividends" at
the expense of profits.

"Bosch has agreed to pay $327.5m to resolve allegations in the US that it
played a significant role in Volkswagen’s diesel emissions scandal."
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bosch_GmbH#Role_in_emis...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bosch_GmbH#Role_in_emission_cheating_software)
[https://www.ft.com/content/964a2f72-e898-11e6-967b-c88452263...](https://www.ft.com/content/964a2f72-e898-11e6-967b-c88452263daf)

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sonium
Speaking of "propaganda" and then using the argument "they have admited guilt
in the past, therefore any future action must be malevolent" is interesting...

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perfunctory
Just because green energy became as cheap as fossil and they can afford to
switch without sacrificing profits doesn't mean they are taking "climate
action". It's the same as if I claimed credit for "climate action" because I
am paying energy tax. I am not saying this is malevolent. But it's at best
neutral.

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paraschopra
Not many know but Bosch is owned 92% by a nonprofit, so they are practically a
nonprofit company.

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GrumpyNl
Hard to believe, these promises van Bosch. Will they fake it again?

