
Ask HN: When you can't fall asleep, what do you do? - cdvonstinkpot
If you can&#x27;t sleep, do you get right back at whatever project you&#x27;re into? If not, then what do you do while waiting to be tired enough to sleep?
======
jeo1234
As someone who has always had issues sleeping I hope I can be of some help.

I take 6mg of melatonin. Every night. I have found it allows me to fall asleep
within a half hour instead of it taking two hours.

Maintaining good sleep hygiene is often very helpful. Avoid blue light before
going to bed. Physical activity and exercise are important. Try not to eat
right before going to bed.

When I am really stressed out and just can't sleep, I lie in bed and daydream,
(often it's some type of fantasy where I get to live in the future where
mankind is living throughout the solar system, I digress). I find doing this
calms me down, making it easier to fall asleep.

~~~
martin-adams
I don't have trouble sleeping, but when you refer to daydreaming, this is
exactly what I do. I play out stories in my mind where I'm in a fictional
fantasy (not related to my life in anyway).

Another thing I experienced was when I cut out sugar and caffeine, I'd be able
to fall asleep in almost any place. Again, that may only be my experiences.

~~~
masters3d
^^ when I quit coffee, falling asleep comes easy also.

------
mindcrime
Melatonin[1][2]

I just have to be careful about taking it too late, if I really need to be up
the next morning. I find that when I take melatonin, I _really_ need my full 8
hours (or more) of sleep, or I feel pretty groggy for quite a while after
waking up.

[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melatonin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melatonin)

[2]: [http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/tc/melatonin-
overview](http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/tc/melatonin-overview)

~~~
ParanoidShroom
This And don't consume any stimulants that will keep you awake in the evening.
Flux, and avoid blue light. Works good.

~~~
mindcrime
Yeah, the avoiding stimulants is big as well, at least for me. Strangely
enough, I feel like that's one thing that's changed as I've gotten older -
when I was younger, I could drink coffee right before bedtime and still fall
asleep. Now, I find that if I don't cut out the caffeine well in advance of
bedtime then it affects my ability to fall asleep.

I'm not very good at the "avoiding blue light" part, I really need to start
doing that. But I'm really bad for surfing the 'net or reading some kind
document on the computer, right up until time to close my eyes. :-(

------
animal531
Not really what OP asked, but I think it's far more important to try and fix
the cause of why you can't go to sleep, instead of working on the symptoms.

1\. Try to go to bed at the same time every day (and sleep the same amount of
time). I'm a night owl and can easily move my day on, but moving it back is
very difficult.

2\. Sleeping ritual. Mine is pretty simple, I turn the lights off, climb in
bed and lie on my right hand side. After a bit (1-10 minutes) I will turn over
and then I'm pretty much immediately asleep. If you repeat something it will
become ingrained (and will work most of the time).

3\. Fix all sources of disturbances. Partner, pets, light, noise etc.

4\. Learning to switch your brain off. Try not to watch/read something that's
too emotionally charged before bed.

5\. After that everything else that has already been mentioned, eating too
close to going to bed, having drunk something so you need to get up to pee
etc.

For most people sleep shouldn't be a problem, they just have terrible habits
and/or environment.

------
adamzerner
I find that I need a cutoff point where I'm not allowed to do any more work.
Otherwise I'll be thinking about work and productivity up until the point
where I literally become unconscious (fall asleep).

Sometimes I read/listen to educational stuff. I try to keep it on the lighter
side. Sometimes I listen/watch comedy. Right now I've been watching Seinfeld
before bed. Before that was Khan Academy history.

I remember hearing advice from some credible source (that I can't remember)
that it's not good to keep trying to fall asleep when you are struggling. I
think 20 minutes was the point where it was recommended to get out of bed and
do something else for a bit. Anecdotally, it works reasonably well for me.

------
dinosaurs
When I can't sleep, I do something which I call the '1 2 3 4 5'-exercise.

While still in bed, lay on your back and think of something you can 'see'
(imagine it), anything as long as it's something that physically exists. For
example: your car, a guitar, a chair. Imagine it and try to describe it to
yourself in the best possible detail. 'My guitar is surf green, it's a Fender
Carbonita, it has 22 frets, it has a maple neck, ...' Do this for five things.

Then move on to "things you can feel". Physically feel. For example, describe
how your couch feels, how your blanket feels. Again, every little detail. Five
times.

Then think of five things you can hear: not at that exact moment in your bed,
but things you might have heard throughout the day. Something I think of often
is the sound of a train arriving or leaving. Again, try to describe it to
yourself in the best possible detail. Do this, again, five times.

Then start over at describing something you can 'see'. Do it four times, move
on to feeling, 4 times, move on to hearing, 4 times. Then all over again,
except this time 3 times. Then 2, then 1.

I have never made it past the first 5 descriptions of 'see'. I usually fall
asleep after describing two objects to myself.

It might help you fall asleep.. Might not. Worth a try, perhaps?

~~~
th0waway
As a kid I had a hard time getting to sleep (small home, could hear
everything). I eventually learned to block everything out and sleep using the
following routine: 1\. Start breathing as slow as possible. 2\. Count
breathes, starting at 100 and working back. That usually did the trick.

~~~
masters3d
What happens when you hit zero? Do you go to negative numbers? =)

~~~
th0waway
I don't remember ever hitting 0.

------
rajeshmr
Read.

As i understand, when you can't sleep your mind is active and / or is
receptive. Mostly its receptive to new ideas, and hence reading aids in
thinking and churning ideas.

In case your mind is active and has too much noise like worries / anxiety etc.
i find it best to watch videos i saved for later on youtube or ted.

------
Gustomaximus
Most importantly I try to take my mind off thinking about the day/problems in
general. If I'm a 'little awake' I make movies/stories in my head in as much
detail as I can conjurer. Usually some adventure story I play out. Kinda
amuses me until I drift off.

If I'm really awake and don't want to go back to work I put on a movie onto
the TV I've already watched a few times, ideally something a bit boring.
Usually that makes me drift off.

There's also the more personal option I'm surprised no-one has mentioned yet.
That tends to help the boys sleep at least.

------
JackMorgan
I can't sleep when my mind is racing with ideas or replaying the day.

First, I'll write down all my ideas, thoughts, etc. Even if just a few words,
I think that action helps me brain turn off.

If I'm still awake, the big guns, I'll read a fiction book in another
language. A few minutes of that and I'm exhausted. The kindle is great for
that, because it's got an easy dictionary for looking up unknown words. Just
make sure you're wearing orange tinted glasses or you're on a non-lit screen,
otherwise the blue in the phone screen will wake you up further.

------
vixen99
Get up, eat a small amount of cooked oatmeal or other complex carbohydrate
cereals (the tryptophan link), go back to bed, read a novel and you'll likely
drop off after a few dozen pages.

------
vayarajesh
I think falling a sleep at will can be done by either getting too tired or too
bored. I generally watch / read something really boring (e.g. I cannot stand
biology related books or youtube video teaching biology. Sometimes I force my
self to watch / read a boring books / videos and in 15min I start yawning and
soon sleep.

Another thing I do is I climb stairs to my house (I stay on the 6th floor and
have to climb more than 100 steps)

------
6t6t6
Just relax.

Assume that this is probably going to be a bad night, you will not sleep much
and tomorrow you will be tired. First of all accept that, or you will feel
even more anxious. The good part is that tomorrow night you will be tired, so
it will be easier to fall sleep.

Then, try to do something to distract yourself. It is really boring to spend
the night laying on the bed and feeling miserable because you cannot sleep.
Grab a book or watch a film, at least you will do something profitable during
the night. Finally, at some point, you will fall asleep. It will be probably
too late, but at this point there's nothing you can do about that.

IMPORTANT: Wake up at your time. You will feel extremely tired, and it will be
really hard to wake up; but if you sleep until late, you will be altering your
internal clock and next day you won't be able to sleep early neither.

If you cannot sleep for several days in a row, probably you should see a
doctor. He will be able to help you.

------
mcv
I read a book. I have trouble reading books lately because I keep falling
asleep, but that makes them perfect cures for insomnia.

But more seriously, reading some fiction (not news!) is a great way to clear
the mind and distract your thoughts from all the stuff that's keeping you
awake.

------
kyriakos
At this point I no longer understand what "can't fall asleep" feels like.
Especially after having a child my concern is how to stay awake rather than
not fall asleep. Not that I regret it but it has taken a toll on my personal
projects.

------
d2xdy2
I mostly get restless when I'm excited about something (much like kids on
Christmas Eve).

Its particularly bad tonight/this morning; I found Elixir a few days ago, and
I keep thinking about doing things with it.

Often I'll try to go to bed, get in some weird thought-state, and "wake" back
up with a fully planned project in my head I just absolutely have to get
worked out.... or.... rather, usually, some really weird/dumb idea that I
thought was great and probably shouldn't have wasted the night on.

------
shoo
If I have specific thoughts or concerns swirling around in my head, I find it
is sometimes helpful to jump out of bed, find a pen and paper, and write them
all down. Often this lets me get to sleep more easily afterwards, as I no
longer have to worry about "remembering things for the morning".

Getting a period of decent exercise (walking, jogging, etc) between work-time
and sleep-time also seemed to help break up the day for me, and ensure I am
both somewhat physically tired as well as mentally tired.

------
vukmir
Stop trying to fall asleep!

Lie on your bed. Relax. Instead of trying to fall asleep (and thinking about
it) think about making yourself as comfortable as possible. Turn this way,
move your arm that way,... Once you've done it, the sleep usually follows. In
short, think comfort not sleep.

P.S.

I've used to have troubles falling asleep, but that simple method helped me to
solve the problem. I would give the credit to the original author, but I can't
remember where I read it.

------
vixen99
Get up, eat a small amount of cooked oatmeal or other complex carbohydrate
cereal, return to bed and read a novel; after a few pages you'll likely drop
off.

------
hadeharian
Take an antihistamine which makes me drowsy, and then I sleep. Sleepiness is
often a function or two things: (a) feeling comfortable (b) not being too busy
minded about things

In my case, sometimes I just don't feel comfortable enough. However, I think
even a sugar pill would help some, because in some cases it's just a matter of
deciding to stop thinking about things enough to settle down.

------
sdnguyen90
To fall asleep I do mindfulness meditation and hypnosis videos on YouTube.

Sleeping with blinds open is pretty important for the next day. If you don't
have any natural light then getting sunlight as early as possible helps.

If I do take melatonin, I don't take it past 1 AM... I feel like it messes up
my circadian rhythm even worse if I do.

------
seekingcharlie
Pretty simple thing that I learned through yoga:

Breathe deeply & concentrate on making your exhale longer than your inhale.

------
adebtlawyer
Once I reached my 30's, not being able to fall asleep wasn't a problem for me
anymore. YMMV.

------
aaronbrethorst
Read a physical book (not a computer, phone, or tablet screen) — I've been
reading this monstrous tome lately, and it's been a great change from Facebook
and Twitter: [http://www.amazon.com/Aperture-Magazine-Anthology-
Minor-1952...](http://www.amazon.com/Aperture-Magazine-Anthology-
Minor-1952-1976/dp/1597111961). A Kindle is an ok fallback (for me at least)

Get some exercise — I feel way better after running even just 1 mile. I did 3
earlier tonight, and can barely keep my eyes open right now.

Don't drink — Your sleep isn't as restful: [http://time.com/3671777/drinking-
sleep](http://time.com/3671777/drinking-sleep)

Don't drink coffee after _x_ PM — I always cut myself off from caffeine by
4pm, and try to do it by 2pm. Find out what's right for you.

Take some melatonin — It did me a lot of good when I used to have trouble
sleeping.

Address the sources of anxiety in your life — A comparison of how well I sleep
now vs. when I had a lot of anxiety in my life (stress from working at
Microsoft, stress from trying to drag along my faltering startup, etc.) is
stark. I don't fall asleep with much or any worry most nights.

Worst case scenario: ask a doctor to prescribe you Ambien or the like. Re-
establish a decent sleeping pattern, and then figure out how to address
everything else.

Edit: There's one thing I want to mention about exercising. I started running
only two months ago after what essentially amounts to a lifetime of non-
exercise. I wasn't overweight by any means—I was just plain skinny. Like, sort
of the way you expect your average nerd to be skinny. After my first run of
barely a mile (walking about half of it), I wondered if I was going to have a
heart attack. I didn't, thankfully. And now, two months later, I can run a
longer distance than my first run/walk with basically no trouble whatsoever. I
feel great, have more energy, and sleep better.

You don't even have to start running. Just start walking. Here's a better
story than I can offer you at the moment on the value of this:
[http://www.loopinsight.com/2015/06/16/apple-watch-my-most-
pe...](http://www.loopinsight.com/2015/06/16/apple-watch-my-most-personal-
review-ever/) and [http://www.loopinsight.com/2015/06/18/follow-up-to-how-i-
los...](http://www.loopinsight.com/2015/06/18/follow-up-to-how-i-lost-
over-40-pounds-using-healthkit-and-apple-watch/)

You don't need an Apple Watch. You don't need a health tracker. Just move. It
feels better every day, and—I promise—within a month or two you'll start
craving it. It's an awesome feeling.

~~~
TimSchumann
Great advice. Especially the part about anxiety... he said as reading
hackernews at midnight to avoid sleeping.

~~~
aaronbrethorst
I was waiting for a build to finish ;) I _was_ planning on getting to bed
before midnight, but got wrapped up in some fun 'work'. Thought I'd come back
here once to see what folks had said on this thread, and then call it a night.

Are you _this_ Tim Schumann?
[http://projectskyhook.com](http://projectskyhook.com)

edit: to be clear, not that I'm previously familiar with your work; just
noticed that you must be another left-coaster, and decided to Google you. And,
assuming you are the aforementioned Tim Schumann, hi from a somewhat near
neighbor in Seattle.

------
Ollinson
I pop a couple benadryl usually works in about 30 mins

As far as drugs go benadryl is pretty innocuous. You could always buy that
ZzzQuil stuff but it's the same thing for more money.

------
ekianjo
I read Murakami's books. I fall asleep in no time.

------
Jipha
Read a _book_. It'll wind you down until you get drowsy. When you start
drifting off while reading, hit the hay.

------
jpindar
I listen to podcasts or lectures. If I _want_ to stay awake to hear the whole
thing, I almost certainly won't.

------
x13
when i can't sleep, i read HN.

this list is pretty good, considering the source:

[http://www.buzzfeed.com/nataliebrown/charts-that-will-
help-y...](http://www.buzzfeed.com/nataliebrown/charts-that-will-help-you-
sleep-better)

* exercise

* wake up earlier

* stop using all electronics after 9

------
guan
I usually look at my phone. Yes, I know that’s the last thing I should be
doing.

------
zewaldo
meditating to sleep has helped me a lot. Personally I find that having trouble
sleeping is related to not letting go of certain things that happened during
the day or event from before.

------
kleer001
I pay close attention to my breath and heart beat at the same time.

------
gjoshevski
Try not to fall asleep! Works.

------
cweagans
I am not a doctor, and this is not medical advice. Follow it at your own risk.

Make sure you're going to bed at the same time every night (notice: that's
_every_ night. Not just weeknights.), and getting up at the same time every
day (ditto), and make sure the delta between those two times is long enough.
Not "I feel rested after 30 minutes of sleep" long enough: start with 9 hours
and maintain that until you're getting up < 30 minutes before your alarm by
yourself and feeling rested. At this point, you can more or less consider your
sleep debt paid off. Then, back off the duration of sleep in ~90 minute
intervals (that's the average REM cycle in humans) using the same criteria
(note that average time to fall asleep is about 15 minutes). Most people won't
get past a 7.5 hour sleep time.

Another thing that really helped me is cutting most processed sugar and all
caffeine. As somebody who had a serious coffee and energy drink addiction,
this was really hard to do, but it makes a big difference. If you "can't" cut
caffeine, then try cutting it after 2pm or so. The biological half life of
caffeine is 3-7 hours in adults, so when in doubt, go earlier than 2pm if you
can. If you're a smoker, quit that too. Generally, stop putting stimulants
into your body. Given that most of those stimulants also come with all kinds
of sugars and other less-than-desirable additives, you'll be more healthy for
it in the long run.

Along that same line, alcohol, despite being a depressant, is a good thing to
avoid, especially in excess around bedtime. It might help you sleep, but long
term dependence on alcohol puts you firmly in the "alcoholic" category, and
even worse, it can cause or exacerbate insomnia.

When you're doing all of ^, you shouldn't need anything else unless there's
some kind of disorder in play. I had
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder),
which the article likens to "Social Jet Lag". It's correctable over time,
though, in part by following the rules I put up there ^, and in part by
following these next ones (these apply to other sleep phase disorders,
including mild insomnia):

0) This is optional, but keeping a log of anything related to your body will
provide you with useful data down the road should you need it. Treat this like
a personal log file: timestamped entries for when/what you ate, what meds you
took, when you laid down in bed, when your alarm goes off, when you get out of
bed (those times are usually different for me :P ), your rating of your sleep
on some consistent scale, and how long you exercise. The more data, the
better.

1) Start with 6mg of melatonin 15 minutes before laying down in bed. Keep
doing that for a week. If you are still having problems falling asleep:

2) 6mg of melatonin and 25mg diphenhydramine (Unisom). Note that this is an
antihistamine, and that in some cases, they can react poorly with SSRIs
(depression medication). I know somebody that ended up sleeping for about 48
hours straight as a result. They're otherwise pretty safe. After a week, if
you're _still_ having problems, and you're being honest with yourself about
following the rules at the top of this post:

3) 6mg melatonin, 50mg diphenhydramine. This is about the most potent OTC
sleep cocktail available. After a week and really, _really_ making sure you're
following the rules at the top - see how I keep coming back to that? They're
important - if it's still not working:

4) Go to a doctor armed with the log from step 0 and get a prescription for
Trazodone, which can (I'm told by my doctor) be safely layered on top of the
Melatonin and Diphenhydramine. If you stay awake through this, there are other
options too. Zolpidem didn't do anything for me, but I'm told it works wonders
on other people.

In any case, start with the minimum effective dose of these things because
they can really mess you up.

------
r080
A bit of weed helps me a lot.

