

Got one job offer, took it, then got another.  Etiquette? - azelfrath

So three months ago I was recommended by my instructor for a pentester position.  He said that once the class was over (a week from then) he could officially vouch for me, since it's not showing favoritism if I'm not his student.  I apply for the position and wait patiently.  I email them back about 10 days later as per my instructor's advice asking if they have reviewed my resume, and got no response.  I figured they had either ignored, forgotten, or lost my app.<p>Fast-forward to a few weeks ago when I apply for a sysadmin position at a local ISP.  Less than three weeks from applying, I am hired before the background check even clears.  I started last Wednesday.<p>Today, I get an email from the first company saying they want to set up a phone interview.<p>I really don't know how to handle this.  Do I play hardball and tell them I was already hired?  Do I ask if they can beat the pay and benefits of my current position?  Do I say I am still interested but have been employed elsewhere?  Do I tell my current boss that I might be considering a better position at another company?
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bigiain
My advice is to be honest. Tell the new offer "I never heard back from you
guys, so I accepted another offer. I wouldn't feel right leaving them in the
lurch, so it'd a have to be a significantly more interesting offer and I'd
need some time to sort things out here without disrupting plans they've made
based on hiring me.". There's probably no need to tell your current boss
anything until _after_ (if) the "significantly more interesting offer"
eventuates.

~~~
azelfrath
This is the closest to what I intend to do. I wanna display interest without
making it obvious that I am gonna push for the best offer from both parties.

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tnorthcutt
_Do I play hardball and tell them I was already hired? Do I ask if they can
beat the pay and benefits of my current position? Do I say I am still
interested but have been employed elsewhere?_

If pentesting is what you'd rather be doing, be up front with them about the
situation. If you'd be willing to leave for a similar/better/wildly better
offer, say so.

 _Do I tell my current boss that I might be considering a better position at
another company?_

No. Do not tell your current boss that you might be considering a better
position at another company. If the company that you're not working for right
now makes you an offer that you'd like to take, make 100% certain that you
have a position there, and then notify your current employer that you're
leaving. Under no circumstances should you indicate to them that you're
thinking about leaving.

 _I wanna display interest without making it obvious that I am gonna push for
the best offer from both parties._

Do not push for the best offer from both parties. The only communication you
should have with your current employer about this situation is to notify them
that you're leaving once you have employment elsewhere secured.

My advice might be different if you'd been working at your current place of
employment for longer, and had reason to believe that they'd be willing to
negotiate to keep you around. For an entry-level position (I'm assuming, based
on the given context) that you've only been at for a few months, I wouldn't
think that would be the case.

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ig1
Well what do you want to do with your life ? - do you want to be a pentester
or a sysadmin ?

If being a pentester is what you want to do then take the interview, and if
you decide to take the job then just quit from your current employer and tell
them that the role wasn't what you were looking for.

Seriously, a decision that will potentially effect your career for the rest of
your life shouldn't be done on the basis of etiquette, it should be done on
the basis of what you want to do with your life.

~~~
ayers
I spent too long typing and you got there before me. Great point though.

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tobiasSoftware
First of all, from what I've heard declining a job offer after accepting is a
looked upon as a huge indicator you are not suitable to work for any company.
If you do that and word spreads, it could directly affect your career. Maybe
if you absolutely have a dream job lined up with double the salary you should
take that risk, but still think very very hard about it.

Second a phone interview IS NOT a job offer. I am a 4.0 GPA double major
undergrad and 3.9 GPA masters student with great recommendations and tons of
individual side projects and part time school-related job experience, but no
full time job experience. So far I've been accepted one place, I turned it
down due to a condition that would mean I could not work until half a year
passed. I have had over a dozen interviews and half a dozen phone interviews.
Most places go resume -> phone interview -> company interview -> final steps,
so that indicates you have passed 1/3 or 1/4 of the hurdles. Due to my skills
nearly every resume turned in becomes a phone interview, the phone interviews
pretty much always result in an interview, but most interviews dead-end
because they find "another candidate with more experience." If your situation
is anywhere near similar to mine, then you would have 50% chance at best of
getting the pentester job, possibly closer to 10%.

My advice would be to take the sysadmin position and leave the soonest you
feel comfortable (from what I've heard you should be there a year, at least
half a year, any less than that looks really bad). If you look for a job and
have even a single year of job experience, that should work in your favor. You
have already accepted it AND you do not have another offer.

Do not try to game the system, simply tell them you accepted another offer
already but would like to consider them the next time you are looking for a
job. If you say, "Well I was just hired by someone else so you better make me
a really good offer to make me turn traitor to my current company and leave
them," that reflects horribly on your character and they will run. If you tell
your current boss, "Hey I know you hired me last Wednesday, but I'm thinking
of leaving" that will also reflect horribly on your character and could damage
future opportunities (You do know the next company you apply for could ask
your current boss what he thinks of you right?).

My advice is just to forget about the other offer and pretend it never
happened, stay with your job at least half a year, and at that point if you
hate your job, maybe start looking around again and ask that company if you
could interview with them.

------
ayers
Something that has not been brought up is what direction are you wanting to
pursue. If you are dead set on getting into pen testing then that would add
more weight into your decision. If they are both just options for work and you
are still trying to sort out where you really want to focus then maybe staying
in your current job would be wise.

I would say that it would not hurt to take the phone interview. This doesn't
mean you are going to leave your current position. The company could end the
process at that point and solve the issue for you. If this is the case, at the
very least you gain some more exposure to interviews. If you do get past the
phone interview stage and progress to an offer you will have to make the hard
decision then. If you did proceed with the phone interview I would take
Bigiain's advice and be honest with them. As others have suggested, playing
the two companies off each other would not be a good plan since you have
already taken the job.

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gexla
At this point I would just be looking at everything as a learning experience.
The sysadmin job is probably a good learning experience, but probably not for
long. The other job offer didn't come back to you for three months, so maybe
they aren't in much of a hurry. Perhaps you could stick around the sys admin
job for a few months to learn as much as you can from that job and then make
the jump. In any case, I probably wouldn't be interested in sticking with the
ISP for long.

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overgryphon
A phone interview is not a job offer- you probably need to also complete an
in-person interview before being considered for an offer.

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procrastitron
I would take the fact that they gave you no response at all for 3 months as a
huge red flag.

~~~
azelfrath
That's what I was thinking, but it just occurred to me that perhaps the
position hadn't been created yet. I mean yea, they still could have said
something, but if I had been given advanced notice about a job that didn't
exist, it would sorta make sense...

No, you're right. They could have at least acknowledged my existence =\

~~~
tobiasSoftware
By the way, I recently had a company do that. I interviewed on campus, they
loved me, and I didn't hear from them again. They called me 3 months later, I
aced a phone interview. They bring me in for the real interview and 1) they
didn't have a contract yet for the job, they were in-between contracts and
"would probably have it before you get accepted" and 2) didn't accept me
anyways as they found a "candidate with more experience"

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gamechangr
Alway be honest!!! Tell them the other company responded quickly, but that you
would be willing to explore still

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108
yeah, they are too late but do ask if they can beat the pay and benefits of
your current position and dont tell your boss anything. Companies dont tell
you when they downsize and give ya the pink slip do they?

~~~
azelfrath
I was thinking that, but a small part of me feels like that would come across
poorly. I mean I know I am supposed to be looking for the best that is
available to me, but I don't wanna turn them off by asking so bluntly.

~~~
108
Hey, you didnt sign on the dotted line or anything while being employed with
current employer. You were in touch with them BEFORE you joined Com#2 and are
they contacted you now so are just exploring options. Its not wrong. When you
look at it this way you wont feel like a heel for leaving if the first company
makes a good offer :P

