
Some sexist tropes in the Martian - moxie
https://medium.com/@pandemona/some-sexist-tropes-in-the-martian-8e265f485ea9
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thieving_magpie
This article is really trying to force through a conclusion based on some
evidence that doesn't seem to hold up that well. Then the author challenges me
(the reader) to question why I did not pick up on things like being mentioned
as "beautiful" before highlighting career achievements.

Alright - I'll admit that I didn't think through these tropes when I read the
book. I was too busy reading and enjoying the book. I can't help but wonder if
the author's characters were slightly sexist. What if the characters were
written this way on purpose? It's certainly a real problem in our society -
why wouldn't it be reflected in a book. So am I to criticize the author for
writing it or the character for thinking it? Or are we lumping it all into a
general critique of the author's predispositions. I'm not sure I care to find
out the answer. I also feel for the blog author's point of view because it's
trying to combat a very real thing. I'm flustered.

~~~
snowwrestler
Generally speaking, post-modern critical theory doesn't care much about the
author, to the extent that it even rejects the idea that the author knows best
about what they wrote. Instead, it seeks to understand how the prevalent
culture in which the author lived shaped their work, and therefore, how their
work exemplifies and illustrates the culture in which the author lived.

So, the point here is not to attack Weir. It's to bring to his readers'
attention some subtle cultural cues that they might miss on their own. Weir
might have put those in there on purpose, or they might have ended up in there
because he wrote (like almost every author) in the way that felt most natural
to him.

~~~
Nadya
While I see you were explaining - I criticize their reasoning.

If you are looking for something, you will find it. Sometimes the reasoning is
easy to follow - other times it demands such illogical leaps as to question
the validity or reasoning of the person trying to show the connection.

Give me any two numbers and I'll find a way to transform it to 9/11\. For a
time, people had even made a game out of doing just that.

For example, I have a can of Pringles on my desk. It has 190 calories. 190?
Divided in a way makes two numbers, 19 and 90. 90 minus 19 is 71. The original
190 minus 71 is 119. Reverse 119 and there you have it, 9/11!

What you have is a group of people intent on finding messages that aren't
there. Sometimes they have some claims easily understood by others and other
times they delve so far into absurdity where only they can follow the train of
thought that led them down their path of reasoning. Even if I can follow the
logic, that doesn't necessarily mean I should give it any credit or
significant meaning.

~~~
snowwrestler
This is a common complaint about literary criticism, but it's wrong. "You can
find anything you look for" is usually said by people without any training or
experience in literary criticism. It's equivalent to a literary critic saying
"you can make a computer do anything"; while computers are incredibly
powerful, any knowledgable programmer understands that that is not true.

The blog post carefully lays out the evidence for what they are talking about.
But that also exists against a cultural background, and if you don't have that
background, it will be less persuasive because you won't recognize the
referenced patterns as easily.

~~~
Nadya
To which I say "give me any two numbers".

 _> It's equivalent to a literary critic saying "you can make a computer do
anything"; while computers are incredibly powerful, any knowledgable
programmer understands that that is not true._

There's physical constraints and constraints on our own knowledge. What
someone means behind a statement and their motivations behind that statement
are a lot more within human constraints. There are no limitations on
interpretation. Linguistic interpretation is a lot more open-ended than that
and when I say people can make up whatever they like, as long as they have
some strands of logic to prop up behind it, I mean it.

How many different interpretations of Romeo and Juliet do you think can be
found within each scene? Each interpretation will be colored by the observer's
experiences. If they are pre-determined to find a certain message, they'll
find it.

I know this for a fact. Humans see connections, patterns, and meanings that
aren't really there. As an example, the puzzle _Masqurerade_ has already been
solved. Yet there are people who are _so certain_ that their solution is the
correct one. They see patterns that aren't really there, and readily convince
themselves of the truth of their solution. Many of the solutions are quite
logical, some even give a close answer. The problem is that the puzzle has
already been solved.

[0] [http://hazlitt.net/feature/goes-all-way-queen-puzzle-book-
dr...](http://hazlitt.net/feature/goes-all-way-queen-puzzle-book-drove-
england-madness)

------
itsybitsycoder
> Here’s a letter Watney writes for Johanssen in case he dies. Johanssen is
> the “hot chick” on the mission. He also tries to tell her how to dress and
> how to act. Perhaps Watney also wanted her to smile more.

> > Johanssen: Your poster outsold the rest of ours combined. You’re a hot
> chick who went to Mars. You’re on dorm-room walls all over the world.
> Looking like that, why are you such a nerd? And you are, you know. A serious
> nerd. I had to do some computer shit to get Pathfinder talking to the rover
> and oh my god. And I had NASA telling me what to do every step of the way.
> You should try to be more cool. Wear dark glasses and a leather jacket.
> Carry a switchblade. Aspire to a level of coolness known only as…“Botanist
> Cool.” Did you know Commander Lewis had a chat with us men? If anyone hit on
> you, we’d be off the mission. […]

I haven't read the book but isn't the "dark glasses and leather jacket" bit
here Watney paraphrasing what he was told by NASA to do? Not Watney telling
Johanssen what to do?

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eimai134
blah blah blah - more from the "let's take every comment and twist it into
something sexist" crowd.

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angersock
Some of those examples are kinda meh. The third example is just (taken out of
context, I'm inferring here) a list of relevant things happening in the kid's
lives. I don't know how old the kids are, or what their interests are, but
maybe the only interesting things happening happen to be a crush and becoming
goalkeeper.

The fourth example (again, no context, so maybe am incorrect) is not "women
being talked about like they aren't there" so much as "one manager defending
choices to other manager, with subordinate in same room because reasons".

