
The Georgia Tech Online Master of Science in CS is now accepting applications - crisnoble
http://www.omscs.gatech.edu/program/
======
robfitz
Quick testimonial:

I went to Georgia Tech and did a CS degree there from 02-06. I taught some of
the courses as a teaching assistant and did a year of grad school there before
dropping out to go through YC in summer 07.

The CS education was good and rigorous. It's much more formal than you need
for web apps (as are all CS degrees I would imagine), but it was a solid
program and has served me well.

~~~
timtamboy63
I've been looking for Georgia Tech grads/dropouts who have been to YC. Any
chance you could send me a quick email at chintanparikh@gatech.edu? I run
Startup Exchange at Georgia Tech

------
amelim
As someone who is on the other side of the fence for this program (I'm
currently a CS PhD student at Georgia Tech), I can tell you that many of the
faculty are excited about online programs. Hopefully the learning process for
the faculty goes smoothly and the online students have a worthwhile
experience. I know I'm excited to help TA some of the courses!

~~~
joeblau
What is the benefit of going up to Masters/PhD and what did you personally
gain from the expereince?

------
cmeiklejohn
I've just submitted my application.

I've got an undergraduate degree from Northeastern University in "Information
Technology" and an associate's degree from the Community College of Rhode
Island in "Computer Programming." I did both of these degrees almost
completely online, part-time, working a full-time job to pay my tuition.
Getting enrolled into a master's program for me has been a huge challenge.
Many universities do not want to talk to you unless: a.) you've demonstrated
independent research, and, b.) you have an undergraduate degree in computer
science.

I'm currently a non-degree seeking student at Brown University. This has only
been possible because I work a job where I can shift my hours around to attend
courses during the day. When initially trying to obtain "non-degree" status,
my previous education wasn't even part of the discussion, my experience as an
Erlang engineer working in the distributed systems field was.

I find the online master's degree idea extremely compelling. I want to keep
learning, but I don't want to drop everything to go back and do a master's
degree. I imagine this is the case for many people who simply can't quit their
job because they have other financial obligations, or a more restrictive work
schedule.

~~~
jdotjdot
You've had that difficult of a time going for a CS masters? What schools have
you looked into?

I ask because I'm considering the same thing, but I find it surprising that
you can't find __anywhere __that will take you without an undergrad in CS
given that you have work experience, especially given that your degree is in
IT, which is very related.

~~~
bpyne
Around 7 years ago I looked into a grad program in CS with a bachelors in
mathematics. I talked with graduate advisors from both my state university and
Brown. Their requirements were similar: 4-5 undergraduate courses in comp.
sci. and subject specific GRE. I believe the courses they listed were data
structures and algorithms, computer architecture, programming language design,
operating systems, and software engineering.

I think they've relaxed requirements a little but it's still not easy getting
into comp. sci. from another field.

About work experience, the Brown advisor said that, for them, it's a mixed
bag. A person from industry knows how to produce an application but there may
be large gaps in knowledge. For example, a developer can go a long way using
ArrayList in Java but not know a thing about it or alternatives, especially if
code generators are involved.

~~~
gu
Is studying in the UK an option for any of you guys? Many prestigious UK
universities offer so-called conversion degrees for people with a non-
traditional background. You should be able to produce a solid academic track
record and some familiarity with the field, though. For those with a CS
background there are many specialized MSc degrees, like Computer Graphics or
Machine Learning.

A good example is University College London:
[http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/admissions/msc_computer_science/](http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/admissions/msc_computer_science/)

The so-called generalist programs are for non-CS majors, while the specialist
programs are for people with a CS or related background. Degrees in the
natural sciences commonly involve introductory programming courses, so those
may be a good fit.

~~~
bpyne
Thanks for the reply. It looks like a great program.

Unfortunately, my wife would have a hard time finding work in her field and my
daughter loves her school and friends too much. I'd feel awful asking them to
make the sacrifice.

------
prezjordan
Definitely a step in the right direction, but I wish the degree didn't have
the word "online" in it. I'd like to see them advertise the same integrity of
their "offline" masters program.

I imagine the work is equal, and the word "online" shouldn't carry a negative
connotation, but it sort of does.

Best of luck to anyone taking this on - again, I'm sure the program is great.

~~~
didgeoridoo
I can understanding hedging on the first class; nobody knows if this will work
well or not, so GT might just be trying to protect its current alumni from
dilution in prestige if things go wrong. In the long run though, I agree that
the "online" label must go.

~~~
jophde
There is no online label.

~~~
jophde
[http://www.omscs.gatech.edu/faq/](http://www.omscs.gatech.edu/faq/) See the
thread below too. It's the same degree.

------
mmorey
The University of Florida EDGE program offers masters degrees in both
Electrical & Computer Engineering and Computer & Information Science &
Engineering[1]. The EDGE program has been around for a long time. Before high
speed internet was prevalent they actually mailed DVDs to students.

At UF they actually record the same lectures that on campus students are
attending. Same quality, just a different medium.

Although UF's engineering program is not as highly regarded as Georgia Tech's
it is still a very strong program and worth considering if you are considering
Georgia Tech.

Disclosure: I'm an alumni of the UF EDGE program.

[1] [http://www.ufedge.ufl.edu/degrees-and-
certificates/offerings...](http://www.ufedge.ufl.edu/degrees-and-
certificates/offerings#Degree_programs)

~~~
liamondrop
$725.75 per credit hour (non-resident) for EDGE vs. $134 for GA Tech OMS CS is
a significant difference.

------
artmageddon
As a person who had a 2.92 GPA getting out of university(I transferred from
one univ to another so while my credits were accepted from the first, the 3.3
GPA didn't carry), how critical are graduate schools of this sort of thing? I
have a BS in CS, and about 9 years of real-world development experience under
my belt and can probably get good recommendations from supervisors /
professors. Can anyone comment on this?

Edit: I'm in the process of updating my resume and applying. While I'm still
curious for anyone's thoughts for this, I figure it doesn't hurt to try anyway
:)

~~~
FireBringer
From my experience people that have been out of school that long and don't
have a good GPA usually take a few graduate courses through the non-degree
program, then get a recommendation from the professors when they apply to grad
school. It probably will vary from school to school. Grades alone however
usually grad school will want over a 3.0 GPA and 2-3 recommendations from
professors.

~~~
artmageddon
Thanks! That's sort of what I was afraid of, but if this might be the route I
have to go then it'll give me a better shot of getting into a program. By then
I'll see how well the current crop of Georgia Tech students like the program
and go from there. I'm doing a Machine-Learning class from Coursera / Stanford
starting next week to give me a taste of things, too :)

~~~
eitally
This is essentially how it worked for me, too. I had a 2.92 overall GPA but
showed them a 3.6 GPA in my major, and was provisionally admitted (based
mostly on my letters of reference and work experience). It seems admissions
and department heads have quite a bit of flexibility if you can convince them
to apply it. :)

------
mattferderer
Just a reminder these classes will be available for free on Udacity as well.
To me that seems like a better option for the first round of classes.

~~~
Dragonai
Yup! The 7 grand would be for the accreditation. I find this model to be
awesome. Makes me proud of my school.

------
dhawalhs
A list of all the courses:

[http://www.class-central.com/initiative/gatech-oms-cs](http://www.class-
central.com/initiative/gatech-oms-cs)

------
makmanalp
Does anyone know how "accredited" this is an whether you could do this on an
F-1 visa? Just curious. Would be kinda nice to do Georgia Tech without having
to move.

~~~
khoitran19
I am wondering the same thing. As I am working full time on F-1 OPT right now,
is it possible that I can enroll in this program? (I am not interested in the
master degree OPT but rather the degree program itself).

------
whoeverest
I'm surprised at the 100 student limit they impose. I'm currently following
MIT's 8.01x Physics course on edX along with 33k other students. So far I
haven't had an issue that's a direct result of the number (like felling I
don't get enough attention from the staff.)

So on one hand we have options like edX, which reach a lot more people and are
mostly free ($50 for a verified diploma) that reach orders of magnitude more
students, and on the other a paid-and-accredited degree.

I personally hope they'll be more of the first ones, because of a) not being
able to spend $6k and b) the warm feeling I get in my stomach when I think
about free and high-quality education that reaches tens of thousands of
people.

~~~
ojbyrne
This is the limit for their "pilot program" and will be dropped in the future.

~~~
whoeverest
Great. Do you maybe know if they plan on dropping the price in proportion to
the number of students rolled in?

I'm thinking: if they enroll 10x students, their expenses will be covered if
every student paid 1/10 of the price. And getting a masters degree for $600
from an accredited university... that's really something.

~~~
Guvante
There is a non-trivial per student cost assuming they don't just put your
programs through an automated tester.

~~~
kd0amg
And if everything you do for class can be graded by an automated tester, it's
not going to be a very good MS.

------
daeken
I'm applying, but don't have terribly high hopes. I'm hopeful that they'll
look past my lack of a high-school diploma, in favor of my industry and
teaching experience, but we'll see. It would be awesome to be a part of this.

~~~
thrun
How can we help?

~~~
Dragonai
Erm, question. Are you _the_ Sebastian Thrun? If so, that's awesome.

------
darklajid
As someone that only has a roughly BS equivalent degree: I checked the
application form and closed it again.

I'd love to enroll, I just recently discussed with my wife that I'd love to
get a better theoretical background, enroll again.

But .. the list of requirements to apply corrects this German's idea of what
bureaucracy means and I cannot provide most of the documents, nor does it seem
that this is seriously targeted at non US citizens. Not for me unfortunately,
but I do appreciate that this is offered in general, and even (in theory?)
includes global applicants.

~~~
jrs99
There is probably less bureaucracy than you think. It all depends on who is
making the decision. You should email them.

When I looked into schools, some schools stated they wanted a 3.0 GPA, for
instance. this seems standard and seems like school policy, but I have found
out that it isn't very strictly enforced at many schools, even public schools.
there are things that are stated because the state makes up what rules need to
be advertised for public schools, but departments often don't care.

In the end, they want your money, especially for a master's degree where
you'll be paying.

If you're interested, you should try emailing them and try to get a feel for
how lax they are about such things.

------
kozikow
Does anyone know if doing this masters will count in front of USA immigration
department? In other words will this degree move me from EB3 to EB2 category
in Green Card application: [http://www.murthy.com/2011/07/15/eb2-or-
eb3-understanding-th...](http://www.murthy.com/2011/07/15/eb2-or-
eb3-understanding-the-difference/) . Masters from the school where I did
bachelor's degree only counts as bachelor degree in USA, so it would be very
important factor for some people.

------
karmicthreat
So my problem is I never finished my undergrad. But I have no desire to put
3-4 more years work (its been 12+ years) into paying a whole lot in time and
money for an undergrad degree. I've worked in the industry and learned the
bits I was missing. (Advanced algo, statistic/probability, linear algebra)

I'd like to participate in the GA Tech program, its worth my time and the
machine learning/vision curriculum is exactly up my alley. Mind you I've been
picking this up anyway recently because I'm interested in the subject and have
some product ideas to hash out with it. The grad degree would be nice to have,
but not the end of the world.

I tried to email the contact for the program and they wouldn't really say one
way or another if they would even consider people who didn't finish undergrad.

I would suggest that GA Tech should open a couple weeder classes. Let people
who can hit a certain threshold take them and prove competency.

A degree is a nice benchmark, but in CS we have a pretty wide variety of ways
to learn. It would be nice to be able to segue in and out of the academic
system smoother to get needed credentials.

~~~
spicyj
The page says:

 _Preferred qualifications for admitted OMS CS students are an undergraduate
degree in computer science or related field (typically mathematics, computer
engineering or electrical engineering) from an accredited institution with a
cumulative GPA of 3.0 or higher. Applicants who do not meet these criteria
will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis; significant professional or other
work experience with supporting recommendations may qualify as an adequate
substitute for the appropriate academic credentials._

which seems to imply that they're at least willing to consider applicants
without a degree.

~~~
karmicthreat
Reading that a second time it does seem that way. At first it seemed to be
less flexible and required a degree. Just that the particular discipline was
flexible.

Thanks.

------
vamega
The page they link to [1] mentions that you need to submit your GRE scores.
However the page itself doesn't have any mention of the GRE being a
requirement? Any idea what the actual stance on this is?

[1] -
[http://www.gradadmiss.gatech.edu/apply/index.php](http://www.gradadmiss.gatech.edu/apply/index.php)

~~~
VolatileVoid
I was actually wondering the same thing.

I took the general GREs back in 2008 but I'm just over the arbitrary 5 year
cutoff that the ETS imposes on score validity.

~~~
VolatileVoid
Incidentally, the FAQ on the OMS CS page says explicitly that you do not need
to have taken the GRE.

------
r3m6
Only a 100 open slots and potentially 10,000 of applications as it seems they
accept applications from all over the world. And there will be no visa issues.
That means they might be able to be even more selective than with their
regular offline classes. => Very good to give the online degree an initial
boost in prestige.

------
otoburb
If you are a non-US student then you must still submit a TOEFL score. From the
FAQ:

 _If my country’s primary language is English, do I still have to provide a
TOEFL score?

Yes. TOEFL scores are required of all international applicants, except those
who have spent at least one year in residence and enrolled at a U.S. college
or university. _

~~~
ojbyrne
With a little digging, you can find this:
[http://www.gradadmiss.gatech.edu/faq/documents/TOEFL_Require...](http://www.gradadmiss.gatech.edu/faq/documents/TOEFL_Requirements.pdf)

~~~
otoburb
I am faintly amused that Canada is not on this PDF list of either de facto or
de jur countries where English is spoken.

~~~
ojbyrne
I asked them about this, and its not a mistake. It depends on the province.

~~~
otoburb
They clarified that any province outside of Quebec is exempt from TOEFL.
Quoting their tweet excerpt back to me:

@GTOMSCS: _Canadian universities outside of Quebec are exempt from TOEFL._

------
fintler
Yay! I got my application in before someone posted it to Hacker News. I might
actually have a chance now.

~~~
smoyer
Me too ... I was a lousy student (in the early '80s) and then scored well on
the Comp Sci GRE in 1990. I'm wondering whether they'll see the change I
recognized in myself during that span.

~~~
ojbyrne
I'm curious about your GRE comment - I took the GRE in 2007, and did well, and
thus would like to include it in my application, but ETS says GRE scores are
only valid for 5 years.

~~~
smoyer
But other than Coursera and employee development, those GREs are the last
academic record I have. You would think my transcripts from '85 would be even
less relevant with that line of reasoning, but that might be exactly what
keeps me from enrolling.

~~~
ojbyrne
FWIW, You can retake it relatively quickly.

~~~
smoyer
If I knew this course was imminent, I might have but the Computer Science
subject test was discontinued (see the note here:
[https://www.ets.org/gre/subject/about?WT.ac=grehome_gresubje...](https://www.ets.org/gre/subject/about?WT.ac=grehome_gresubject_130807))

~~~
thaumasiotes
I don't see a note on that page. What did it say?

------
klaussilveira
Does anyone know a good undergraduate online program?

~~~
chrisduesing
I did some looking in to this a while ago, can't vouch for any of them
personally, but known accredited schools with BSCS or at least related fields:

University of Illinois (BSCS)
[http://www.online.uillinois.edu/catalog/ProgramDetail.asp?Pr...](http://www.online.uillinois.edu/catalog/ProgramDetail.asp?ProgramID=638)

Drexel (BS Computing and Security Technology) [http://www.drexel.com/online-
degrees/bachelors-degrees/bs-gs...](http://www.drexel.com/online-
degrees/bachelors-degrees/bs-gs-tech/index.aspx)

Penn St. (BS Security and Risk Analysis)
[http://www.worldcampus.psu.edu/degrees-and-
certificates/secu...](http://www.worldcampus.psu.edu/degrees-and-
certificates/security-and-risk-analysis-bachelors/overview)

There may have been a couple more, but these are the ones I bookmarked.

------
jasondemeuse
This might be a naive question, but why is this so inexpensive? Don't get me
wrong, education is definitely way more expensive than it "should" be, but I
recently started a Master's in CS at DePaul and $7,000 for the whole degree is
a fraction of what I'm paying.

I understand DePaul is private and expensive anyway, but $134 per credit hour
is still far and away cheaper than anywhere else I've seen while I was looking
for schools to apply to, even in-state public schools.

~~~
gu
As a European I can only ask why this is so expensive...

------
polskibus
I'm doing Computational Investing from gatech on coursera now,
[https://www.coursera.org/course/compinvesting1](https://www.coursera.org/course/compinvesting1).

I do enjoy the course because I wanted to learn more about finance, although
they could improve a lot on their presentation skills and material
preparation. I hope they will take a lesson or two from their coursera
feedback for the benefit of their online students.

~~~
gohwell
Good class, I can't stand the first 15 second music intro.

------
dnautics
Hm. I have a PhD in chemistry, am considering this as a career shift option. I
can write software, I've just never done it formally.

~~~
Cymen
You don't need a CS degree to develop software. I have one but plenty of my
coworkers do not. If you want to see if the work suits you without jumping
right into the deep end or going back to school, see if there are any Software
Craftsmanship apprentice programs in your area. You'll get more exposure to
test-driven development and other ideas than most jobs however it may have a
consultant slant to it as that is what a lot of SC places are doing.

~~~
dnautics
Yeah I know, but I'd like some a more in-depth understanding of certain
topics, in particular neural networks. I think it's a field where my
particular expertise (mechanistic chemistry and biophysics) can bring in
translateable insights.

------
optymizer
I have an ALM in IT from Harvard Extension School. I've always felt like a
degree without any 'extensions' would be nice to have. On the other hand, I
don't want to pay 7k a year for another program that's similar to the one I
paid for already.

Am I even eligible? Is this program better or more challenging? Is it worth
it? Other thoughts?

------
blahedo
From the linked page:

    
    
      > Information Required for Application
      > [...]
      >   Ethnicity
    

_Really_? I could have sworn they're not allowed to require you to provide
that. (They can ask, but only if they make it clear that the response is
optional.)

------
gbertram
Will students who don't have their application accepted be able to get a
refund?

~~~
naudo
Generally in the US the application fee isn't refundable. I've always
understood it as a way for schools to offset the cost of processing
applications and prevent folks from applying to every college under the
premise of "Maybe I'll get lucky and be accepted into MIT"

~~~
gbertram
My credentials aren't that great, so I'll just wait and apply next term to
increase my chances of getting accepted.

~~~
lockes5hadow
From the FAQ: . Students who qualify but are not offered admission during
Spring 2014 will be offered deferred admission in subsequent terms.

------
tshile
I'm working on my application now. I barely meet the requirements, so it'll be
interesting to see if I can get in for the trial period or for the Fall 2014
semester.

------
elwell
Are they going to offer the course materials for free as well?

------
akg369
The application is asking for a Academic and Career plan upto 4000 words? How
important is to meet this word limit?

~~~
repsilat
I thought it was up to 4000 characters.

------
frodopwns
I applied this morning. I kinda rushed my statement of purpose but hopefully
it was sufficient. Wish me luck!

------
joshlegs
i would love to apply to grad school to get a CS degree (or even get a second
bachelor's). The problems are that my bachelor's is in journalism, and my
cumulative GPA was only 2.9. And I've only had a year of professional
programming experience :(

~~~
matchh
You shouldn't be allowed in right now because with your experience you would
be unlikely to succeed.

This is intended to be a serious master's degree from a top ten university for
people with strong practical knowledge. Unless you are a brilliant student, it
will be very hard for you to pass the initial courses - those required to
continue - especially because you probably will not be doing this full time.
It's unlikely that you're a brilliant student because you chose to study
journalism. I made the same mistake.

Udacity failed in their first attempt at accredited online courses with San
Jose State. This was attributed to unprepared students with full time jobs.

Georgia Tech can't accept this. So for the demonstration classes over the next
few years, they'll carefully choose the most motivated and capable people from
all over the world.

That said, MOOCs likely respect the work of other MOOCs, and there are lots of
courses on programming available. Udacity already has great ones (i'm
currently taking debugging), and even these can be difficult to complete on
time.

So it seems like using these to develop the discipline to complete the courses
will be perfect preparation for you to take the Master's.

And when they begin to accept more students, they'll likely start looking
closely at those who show demonstrated aptitude for working through online
courseware.

~~~
joshlegs
heh. > It's unlikely that you're a brilliant student because you chose to
study journalism. I made the same mistake.

i don't see the line of logic there, but oh well.

i just signed up with the course era python course, and i'll probably do a few
more of those courses. So you think several of those in conjunction with full
time programming will get me ready for a master's (or any other degree?) in a
year or so?

~~~
mdkess
Man, don't let people discourage you.

I guess the thing that you should realize though is that this isn't a degree
in computer programming, or IT - it's a more or less a mathematics degree. As
the saying goes, "Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy
is about telescopes."

If you want to get ready for serious computer science, I'd recommend a few
things which are what I think I got out of my undergraduate degree:

1\. A solid understanding of algorithms and data-structures. To this end,
topcoder.com/tc is invaluable and some serious study will quickly bring you up
to speed. CLRS (Introduction to Algorithms) is a great resource, as is
train.usaco.org.

2\. A basic understanding of theoretical computer science. To that end, I
found this a really useful book:
[http://www.amazon.com/dp/0321455363](http://www.amazon.com/dp/0321455363)

3\. Basic understanding of networking and operating systems. Not sure the best
route here, there must be online courses. Not too many great self-study books
in this area, unfortunately. So find some online courses.

4\. A decent math background: linear algebra, calculus, combinatorics, and
probability. For self study:

    
    
        Calculus: Stewart's Calculus is great.
    
        Linear Algebra: I've yet to meet a linear algebra text I liked, so not sure here.
    
        Probability: A First Course in Probability is an outstanding textbook.
    
        Other: Concrete Mathematics by Knuth is an incredible book, very VERY hard and took me a long time to get through, but packed with useful and interesting information. I'd recommend it after the rest of these.
    

5\. Read Snow Crash and watch Hackers.

Also, keep writing lots of code. Daily practice is the secret to everything.

------
codehero
Would online students have access to paywalled research papers?

------
phazmatis
Now we just need an online BSCS from a real college.

~~~
kyledrake
Seeing as I've met Stanford programmers that didn't even know how to write
object oriented php before, what exactly is your definition of "real"?

~~~
presidentender
Why would object oriented PHP be a part of Stanford's coursework?

~~~
prezjordan
You'd expect students of that caliber to work outside of the classroom.

~~~
nilkn
What if the person did plenty of work outside the classroom, but it never
happened to involve object-oriented PHP? I just don't understand the bizarre
notion that if one hasn't written object-oriented PHP before, then apparently,
well, I'm not even sure what the conclusion is supposed to be, but it seems to
be along the lines of "you are a crappy programmer."

~~~
jlgreco
I think the problem is many people mistake CS programs for some sort of
vocational education.

------
FridayWithJohn
How much does it cost in total?

~~~
crisnoble
The page says:

"Tuition: $134 per credit hour

Fees: $301 per academic term of enrollment"

And I found this:

"Georgia Tech's M.S. in Computer Science requires a minimum of 36 credit hours
for completion."

So at 4 semesters you would be looking at:

$6028

~~~
bfung
That number seems low...

doing a bit more digging:

[http://www.bursar.gatech.edu/tuiandfee.php](http://www.bursar.gatech.edu/tuiandfee.php)

[http://www.bursar.gatech.edu/student/tuition/Fall_2013/Fall1...](http://www.bursar.gatech.edu/student/tuition/Fall_2013/Fall13-all_fees.pdf)

1 semester for an out of state, 6+ hour (per week) student is $13,781.

~~~
fintler
The links and prices you've posted are for a different program.

~~~
bfung
ah, that's + undergrad. yup, my bad.

