

I know there isn't much HN can do about it but can we stop opinion-based voting? - TimothyBurgess

I do realize this issue has been touched a number of times but I don't believe it has ever been truly addressed.<p>I will go ahead and mention the comparison to reddit because I know it will be brought up.  I stopped visiting that site for this very reason.  There's nothing more annoying than seeing a legitimate, well-thought-out comment offering perfectly capable intellectual stimulation... downvoted because it doesn't agree with the general population on HN.  It's counter-productive to HN's cause (progression, which can't come about without some opposition of current standards)... and every time I see it I lose more and more hope in humanity.  I upvote these types of downvoted comments every time I see them.  I'm tired of it and I may end up putting HN behind me like I did reddit.<p>So can we please all just come to an understanding and agreement to not downvote comments you don't agree with?  And better yet, upvote comments that provide intellectual stimulation even when you disagree with them.
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DarkShikari
I haven't seen this problem quite so much on Hacker News -- or at least, it's
nothing compared to more mainstream sites. On Reddit you can actually watch
(particularly on slower sections, like proggit) as single people come into the
thread and _every_ _single_ _post_ expressing opinion X loses one point.

I don't think it's caused by disagreement _per_ _se_. I think it's because
people (whether they realize it or not) want to promote their opinion on
certain topics. An upvoted comment expressing a contrary opinion seems like an
endorsement of that opinion by the community (even if it isn't). So they
downvote it to try to reduce the appearance of that endorsement, thus
promoting their own opinion in its stead.

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rlpb
Most of my downvotes are not solely because I disagree with a particular point
of view, but because the opinion presented seems to have been formed because
the poster is missing a fundamental fact that is crucial to the opposite point
of view.

I can't tell if he is ignorant of this fact and would change his view if he
knew, or if he holds his opinion despite it. Expressing a contrary opinion
requires suitable acknowledgement and refutation of the arguments going in the
other direction if it is to have any merit.

If such a fact is acknowledged and refuted, then I am happy to upvote.

~~~
TimothyBurgess
The problem is that voters like you are coming fewer and farther between.

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lwhi
I think an upvote _is_ basically equivalent to saying 'I concur'. It's not
equivalent to a '+' grade.

The problem is other people (rightly) have their own opinion about the meaning
of an upvote.

\--

I think voting serves a dual purpose; 1) to moderate via community consensus
and 2) provide a meta-game designed to entertain members.

I don't think voting should be taken too seriously .. in the end - points and
karma are just a distraction. I don't think it's worth taking it too
seriously.

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clojurerocks
HN is becoming a victim of its own success. It really needs to be taken to
another level so its easier to use. Right now its alot of noise which is
increasing on a daily basis because more people are using it and is making it
more and more difficult to use. The voting system is just one problem.

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pzxc
I voted for this post because I agree with it, we should definitely stop
opinion-based voting.

;-)

~~~
TimothyBurgess
As I said, people should upvote to promote intellectual stimulation, and this
thread directly addresses that - so it should be upvoted. Upvoting this
submission solely because you agree with it is not what you should have done.

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veb
What? In the real world, if you say I'm fat, that I should stop eating fast
food, and I'm a douche-bag, then that's your opinion.

My opinion is that I am am very fit, I have awesome pecs, I can lift a burning
car off a pregnant mother etc.

;-)

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revorad
Unfortunately your own post is mostly an opinion and is not providing much
intellectual stimulation. If you have any ideas to control opinion-based
voting or detect patterns, then that would be more interesting rather than an
emotional appeal.

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_0ffh
Which is why simple voting sucks! See
<http://frankhirsch.net/nbtsm.html#nbtsm>

~~~
TimothyBurgess
I just read your thread: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2095500> ...and
that's a great idea. It would be very difficult to implement accurately, but
definitely not impossible.

~~~
_0ffh
Yes, it would be a challenge to make it work, and work fast! Lots of numbers
to crunch! But it's definitely possible, you could e.g. use idle threads to
collate data in the background while not handling requests, and serve results
leveraging the collated database.

The simplest way would probably be to cluster the users according to their
preferences and serve your results according to which cluster a user belongs
to. More complex mechanisms, like detailed preference correlation graphs might
be possible, but would consume huge amounts of storage. But I really fancy
this idea, and I do seriously believe it to be one of the next big
breakthroughs which are going to happen.

Unfortunately I do currently not have the time to handle such a big
assignment, so I decided to throw the idea out there, free for the grabs. I
want to _have_ that thing, and I don't care much who's gonna make the big
bucks from it!

But try to convince anyone that an openly touted idea is actually worth
something. People still seem believe that if you're not secretive about your
ideas, they probably suck... :-(

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JoachimSchipper
Let's just focus on keeping politics off HN; the worst opinion-based voting
seems to be politically motivated.

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bmm6o
This is pretty vague. Can you point to specific instances where you have
observed a problem?

