
New XPS 13 Developer Edition from Dell - nighthawk24
http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd.aspx
======
bewareofdell
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HGxYMJdm1c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HGxYMJdm1c)

It affects the E7x40, E6x40, E5x40, E5x50, M4800, M6800, E7450 & XPS 13 2015
under Linux/VMs.

So basically Dell took a few months to fix the keyboard de bouncing under
Windows and when they finally released a BIOS update they made the situation a
lot worse for linux users (keys would appear to get stuck). After waiting a
few more months, they finally released another BIOS update to "fix" the
anomaly under Linux (they fixed the "stuck" key problem but many users are
still reporting a de bouncing issue, see the latest pages of this thread if
you are interested [http://en.community.dell.com/support-
forums/laptop/f/3518/t/...](http://en.community.dell.com/support-
forums/laptop/f/3518/t/19593360) )

There's also a touchpad & trackpoint issue that is still not fixed after more
than a year and It looks like a BIOS/EC/firmware issue:
[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1258837](https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1258837)

Dell also broke USB3 support in the latest BIOS update for the E6540 and on
the E6440 [http://en.community.dell.com/support-
forums/laptop/f/3518/t/...](http://en.community.dell.com/support-
forums/laptop/f/3518/t/19610392)

They also released a botched BIOS update (when UEFI netwokrk stack is enabled)
fairly recently that necessitated the removal of the CMOS battery in order to
boot...
[https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/2m6u4s/dell_latit...](https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/2m6u4s/dell_latitude_e7440_a11_bios_update_bricks_machine/)

Also their fan control & thermal management is a sad joke.
[http://en.community.dell.com/support-
forums/laptop/f/3518/t/...](http://en.community.dell.com/support-
forums/laptop/f/3518/t/19593697)

Their BIOS testing process is broken if not in -existing.

So, if you want to buy a Dell machine, just make sure that you know what
you're getting into... Once the initial BIOS is declared gold it can take
several months to see an issue resolved.

~~~
mariusandreiana
Thanks!

Do you know how this would perform with Linux? ASUS Zenbook UX305FA-ASM1
13.3-Inch Ultra-Slim Aluminum Laptop, 8 GB RAM and 256 GB SSD

~~~
badsock
It sounds like it runs fine once you get past the tricky install:

[http://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/2zbtm2/asus_zenbo...](http://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/2zbtm2/asus_zenbook_ux305_for_windowsarch_dual_boot/)

------
kaushiks
Lack of a 16GB RAM option on a "developer edition" machine is very
disappointing. Looks like a Chromebook LS + Crouton is the best Linux
development environment one could aspire for right now.

~~~
bithush
This is actually the only thing holding me back from getting a new machine. I
_need_ one, badly. But I also need at least 16GB RAM. I have 8 in my current
(very old) machine and it is by far the biggest restriction I have. Getting a
new machine with the same amount of RAM is pointless and I don't want to get
another machine this big but my options are limited. I can't find many
ultrabook's with 16GB though :(

~~~
creshal
The X250 supports 16 GiB RAM sticks, and the T450(s) (20/32 GiB) aren't too
big either. Keyboard could be better, but the competition is worse IMO.

~~~
cpswan
Do you have a link or further info on that as I've everything I've found says
the X250 is limited to 8GB (which is why I'm still stuck with my 2yr old
X230)?

~~~
creshal
[https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/2xy9pc/x250_repor...](https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/2xy9pc/x250_reported_to_be_working_with_16_gb_sodimm/)

8 GiB is the official limit, 16 needs after-market modules; and you're still
limited to single-channel speed.

So no, I don't think the X250 is an adequate replacement for the X230. The
X230's 35W CPU is still faster than the X250's 17W one (except in [GP]GPU-
heavy benchmarks) and the X230's dual-channel RAM eats the X250's single-
channel setup for breakfast, even with the new modules.

Advantages of the X250 are the nicer display (FullHD IPS at 400 nits), and
lower power consumption per pound (the X230 still has a higher total battery
run time, but only with 9-cell+slice batteries, which double its thickness and
weight…).

------
rmchugh
I actually tried to buy one of these. Unfortunately I live in Scandinavia, but
I wanted an English keyboard (Scandinavian keyboards are a pain to write code
on). Since it wasn't possible to specify this via the order form, I tried to
ring them, only to find that the only support available for private consumers
is via their website, which doesn't allow me to specify this!

~~~
charlesworth
They are selling them on the UK Dell website, maybe that might be easier to
order from here?

~~~
darklajid
And the UK keyboard isn't the same as the US one, right?

~~~
charlesworth
Yes, its a bit different in the number+shift keys but the leters are in the
standard QWERTY arangement.

------
sirtopas
The thing that put me off the original was the 8gb max RAM... surely a
developer edition would allow for more?

~~~
Athas
I got a ThinkPad X250 a few weeks ago. Originally I was hesitant, as it is
also limited to 8GiB of memory, but I realised that development need not
actually use more than that (and indeed, I never do). I basically need to run
just Emacs, a compiler and a browser, and although both GHC and browsers are
memory hogs, 8GiB is plenty. Whenever I need to do really intense things, like
benchmarking, simulations or large-scale testing, I always want to use a
remote beefy machine anyway.

I know that some developers have a need to run a large number of local virtual
machines, but I do not really understand why, to be honest. I use virtual
machines too, but remotely, and mostly automatically for continuous
integration.

I don't think programming is inherently particularly resource-consuming.

~~~
michaelt

      I know that some developers have a need to run a large
      number of local virtual machines, but I do not really
      understand why, to be honest.
    

If you're developing a website, and you want to test on several versions of
Windows and IE. Or if you're developing something that needs to work on
several versions of Linux and you want to make sure it works right on several
different distros. Or if you're developing something that uses Java on Mac and
you want to make sure it works if the user has Java 6 from Apple, or Java 8
from Oracle, or both.

Obviously, there are ways to struggle through if you don't have much RAM - for
example you can run 1 VM at a time and be constantly stopping and starting
them. But if testing is a PITA, and it means you do a day's work before you
test properly and find there's a problem, you might have wasted that day's
work :)

------
unhammer

      Operating System
      Ubuntu Linux 14.04 SP1
    

Does Ubuntu have Service Packs now?

~~~
calpaterson
Ubuntu has Debian-style point releases:
[https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes/14.04.1](https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes/14.04.1)

Unlike the normal release of a package into the repositories, the installation
media are updated

------
gambiting
Developer edition, and still no option to get it with 16GB of ram. This is the
only thing that I dislike about this laptop, other than that it's a very cool
little machine.

~~~
mschaef
Serious questions: what's the use case for 16GB RAM? I'm not doubting... just
curious.

~~~
egeozcan
In a developer machine? Off the top of my head: virtual machines, in-memory
databases, a bitmap editor with _huge_ bitmaps consisting of many layers, game
programming, 3D rendering...

~~~
mschaef
Thanks.

------
ziahamza
Its a bit funny, when they state that it turns on instantly, They then back it
up with 12 second cold boot and 3-5 second from sleep

~~~
bithush
I find it strange they still use this as a selling point. My only computer is
a Dell laptop from 2008 (Studio 1737) and it wakes from sleep (Windows 8.1) in
~1 second. Sure I don't have connected standby but to be honest I don't really
care for it. I open the lid and in a second Windows is up and running again.
This machine originally came with Vista and it has always worked this quickly
as far as I can remember.

------
anw
This is perfect timing for a link to "developer edition" laptops. I've
currently been scouring, trying to find something I can be happy developing on
for the next 5+ years.

The big selling features for me [and most developers, I'd assume] are the
screen and the keyboard. These 2 things are my feedback loop for developing,
and need to be of a certain quality or I'll feel 'off'.

I find so many companies get close to creating my ideal development laptop,
only to lack in critical ways.

While I don't detest them, I find a lot of island style keyboards don't
provide a resistance for typing. The scissor switches under the beveled keys
on the older Thinkpads left me with a good experience for long periods of
typing. Feeling that resistance is so much nicer than pushing flat tabs down
(most often on spongy keys).

I do understand a lot of people watch movies on their laptops, but unless a
screen is 1080 or higher, I find a 16:9 ratio screen limiting. My 12 inch
SXGA+ screen goes up to 1050px height. Almost all "modern" screens are 16:9
and only go up to 900px height for the ~12" width. So unless a company makes a
1080 12" laptop, I still feel I'm missing out on those extra 150 pixels.

Soldering RAM, SSDs, etc. to the mobo. Like was mentioned here, "planned
obsolescence" is everywhere, but I don't want to be a part of it. My old x61
Thinkpad still performs beautifully, even after nearly 8 years of service.
Why? Because 8GB of RAM is still a nice thing to have, even if DDR2 RAM is
mind blowingly expensive. And the ability to change wifi cards, throw in a
CrystalHD card to play videos on, or just switch to an SSD. These little
upgrades help keep my old workhorse alive, and makes me wish Lenovo would come
out with an upgraded version, rather than changing to just hit the wider
market of people.

And this is what it comes down to, I feel. So many companies blindly target
the lowest-threshold-needs to hit the widest target group; not really thinking
(or maybe just not caring) that every other company is doing the same thing.
Perhaps it's the notion that 5% of a $1bn market is bigger than 80% of a
$50mm. But at that point, you reduce your company's reputation to being just
another brand, rather than being a master in a particular field.

------
jpgvm
The second model seems like a really good deal for a fairly powerful Linux
laptop with a really nice screen.

Will probably wait for an Ars review but definitely looks promising. Way more
affordable than the Precision model they released recently.

------
dest
French link for this product.
[http://www.dell.com/fr/p/xps-13-linux/pd](http://www.dell.com/fr/p/xps-13-linux/pd)
note that the ubuntu version is noticeably cheaper (-70€) than the windows
version with identical configuration. This is appreciable.

------
davidw
I have the previous edition of this laptop, and I'm very happy with it. I'm a
Linux guy through and through, and I'm happy to put my money where my mouth
is, rather than buying some Windows machine and hoping Linux runs well on it.

I'll probably pick one of these up later this year.

------
edward
I bought the new XPS 13. The fan runs all the time, even when the machine is
idle. Other people have reported the same problem. I returned it.

------
jakobegger
What makes this a 'developer edition'? Does that just mean it comes without
windows, or are there other differences too?

~~~
simonmales
Sans Windows.

------
lsiebert
The m3800 they sell has 16gb of ram, fwiw.

[http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=cump38...](http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=cump3800w7p8&model_id=precision-m3800-workstation&c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&)

------
CSDude
I expected to change some hardware components via Customize & Buy, such as
adding more RAM, however it only allows adding support or some accessories.
Expected more from a "Developer Edition". Do you recommend any other laptops
for Linux with full support and lasts more than 4-5 hours?

~~~
lhl
I got tired of waiting for the Dell (and got a bit antsy about the BIOS and
other issues) and went with a Lenovo X250 instead. It's fully customizable but
takes about 2 weeks to ship. I've actually been traveling since I ordered it,
finally getting it cross-shipped this week.

There are some crazy discounts every so often (I got a 35% off on my X250
order a couple weeks ago; I spent $1500 w/ shipping+tax for the i7-5600U CPU,
512GB SSD, 12.5"FHD screen, w/ a 6-cell battery). It maxes out w/ an 8GB DIMM,
but 16GB DIMMs are starting to show up and will be compatible (albeit
currently quite expensive).

The X250 is slightly bulkier than the MBA11/XPS13, but one nice thing is that
it comes w/ a built-in 3-cell battery and an additional hot-swappable 3 or
6-cell battery. Real world battery life is reported to be 6h+ with the 3+3
combo, and 10h+ with the 3+6. Lenovo claims 20h in Windows. I'm interested in
running some tests but I'm confident it should last at least a work day.

Here are some notes I've gathered, both comparing various ultrabook options
(I'm replacing my MBA11 after multiple generations of disappointments) as well
as lots of X250 specific config notes:
[https://randomfoo.hackpad.com/Lenovo-X250-Linux-
CVpUMLjBDZh](https://randomfoo.hackpad.com/Lenovo-X250-Linux-CVpUMLjBDZh)

------
tqh
Seems Dell is a mess in ACPI and will need firmware updates:
[http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/34542.html](http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/34542.html)

~~~
INTPenis
The state of the hardware in Linux is very relevant, I couldn't find any real
specs like chipsets of network, sound and such for this new XPS model.

Linux has come a far way as all of us who remember compiling a device driver
will attest to, but that does not mean we're free from having to check if our
new computers have well supported firmwares and preferably functioning open
drivers.

~~~
lhl
The most extensive discussion on Linux compatibility for the XPS13 is here:
[https://major.io/2015/02/03/linux-support-dell-
xps-13-9343-2...](https://major.io/2015/02/03/linux-support-dell-
xps-13-9343-2015-model/)

It includes info on the hardware: ALC3263 audio, BCM4352 network. Issues
(presumably all fixed/worked around now that Dell is officially selling a DE)
included the above-mentioned ACPI issues, sound (HDA/I2S, mic, headphone
output) keyboard debouncing, trackpad freezing (and having to run in PS2
mode), and un-suspend display corruption.

Note, Major Hayden, who wrote the original post ended up switching to a Lenovo
X1 Carbon: [https://major.io/2015/03/30/review-lenovo-x1-carbon-3rd-
gene...](https://major.io/2015/03/30/review-lenovo-x1-carbon-3rd-generation-
and-linux/)

~~~
igravious
The X1 Carbon X1 (2nd gen) starts at roughly €2,200 in my region versus Dell's
roughly €1,300 for the XPS 13 (3rd gen). That's a _big_ difference, it had
want to be worth it but wait...

The Carbon has the good ol' Windows tax, the XPS comes with Ubuntu pre-
installed.

The Carbon has an i5, the XP3 an i7.

Carbo has a res of 2560x1440 (QHD), the XPS has a res of 3200 x 1800 (QHD+).

The Carbon has a 180GB hard drive, the XPS has a 512GB.

Thanks, but no thanks. I have the previous version of the XPS 13 and it's a
sweet machine. Granted, it may take Dell a while to get the BIOS tweaks just
right but it's not like the machine is unusable otherwise - it just goes from
nearly perfect to perfect.

\---

[0]
[http://shop.lenovo.com/ie/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-ca...](http://shop.lenovo.com/ie/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-carbon-2/)
[1]
[http://www.dell.com/ie/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd](http://www.dell.com/ie/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd)

------
ret2libc
I had the previous version of the DELL XPS 13 Developer Edition and I always
had problems with USB 3 devices.

And Dell assistance is now a joke... four maintenance works (one of them broke
the display) changing random pieces and at the end the problem was still
there. I wouldn't suggest to anybody to buy one of this.

------
fit2rule
What I like about this: I can buy it with Bitcoin! That is not something I
feel should be overlooked ..

------
elcct
8GB RAM is so 2014... also keyboard layout is not so dev friendly.

~~~
creshal
You mean 2010. Sandy Bridge laptops from 2011 already had 16 GiB RAM.

~~~
elcct
I think since 2014 use of 8GB in mainstream laptops was a standard. It seems
like they just slapped Ubuntu on a mediocre spec laptop and called it a day.

~~~
creshal
Mainstream, maybe. But not in developer laptops/mobile workstations.

------
NateDad
I hope they do the no bezel thing on the next xps 15. It's super sexy, but I
need the extra ram and real estate in the 15.

------
CloudLeaper
It would be nice to be able to choose the 256 GB HDD for the non-touch
version. I'm not sure why this is not an option.

~~~
ironsides
Its available on the non-dev product page if you configure it.

------
gdamjan1
» Software Skype™, Internet Explorer, My Dell Support application, Dropbox «
wait what?

------
farresito
I would rather get a Thinkpad for that price, especially the T450S.

~~~
nazgulnarsil
$1600 for an IPS 1080p screen? what a joke.

------
tuananh
A bit weird as it says nothing about battery.

~~~
miahi
It does say "52 WHr, 4-Cell Battery (integrated)" in the details ("Also
included in this system"), but it doesn't list the estimated run time.

~~~
tuananh
Thanks. I didn't go into detail page. That's why

