Ask HN: Given the cost of living, why would a developer live in Silicon Valley? - hoodoof
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cairo140
My numbers (n=1, though this is widely true among the transplants I know)
worked out in spite of the cost of living. Here is my math, though obviously
the number will vary based on individual.

My rent went up by around $2000. At a marginal tax rate (Medicare + Federal +
State) of ~40% this meant post tax income would have to go up by $40000 to
"break even". Tack on an extra $5000 per year to cover the high state tax rate
(this difference varies based on origin state). In comparison, my gross income
went up by over $50k within a year and $150k within 3 years.

There are other aspects that add to "why I personally live here". (1) Job
security is much better, not in the sense that companies are more loyal or
successful here, but in that there is so much going on that you get job
security from the strength of the market, and I feel like if I ever lost my
job or wanted to change I can. (2) Because of the strength of the market,
employers treat employees much better here than in smaller markets. (3)
Everybody else is here. The proliferation of people who I can learn from here
is amazing to take in.

There are definitely things that will tip the scale in favor of going away.
Kids and buying a home are a big one, since those costs are even more outsized
here than rent alone. Also, the valley is disproportionately friendly to the
cutting-edge, type-A career, and the numbers (in terms of the jobs you can
get) are not as friendly if you want to settle down. It's for these reasons
it's likely I'll leave, but in the meantime, the cost of living is offset by a
long shot, to say nothing about the intangible benefits.

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blabla_blublu
\- The #Opportunities is staggering.

People are quite comfortable living in places (yes, rent is shit) where there
are multiple opportunities so that when one doesn't work out, they can move to
the next without uprooting their family/social system. Silicon Valley allows
for that in a 30-40 mile radius.

\- Number of likeminded folks as @dhogan pointed out. The sheer volume of meet
ups, etc. is incredible.

So many startups, so many cutting edge tech companies and a lot of driven
folks. You can bounce around as much as you like in the valley. Companies tend
to home themselves here, since there is an easier talent pool to tap into. I
am not saying other places don't have that, but the volume of such folks +
opportunities is very high!

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hacknat
Because you might make it big? Seriously though, I just left Seattle after 7
years to move to Madison, WI, for a very interesting opportunity to work on
some cool virtualization and orchestration tech. My current company is great,
but it's largely a coincidence that it's based in Madison, WI (most of the
leadership is on the West Coast). While I'm grateful to be working on
something cool right now, I'm painfully aware that there isn't anything else
in Madison after my time with my current company is up. Hopefully that's a
while, but, software being software, the nature of engineering is very project
based. We work in an exceptionally stable industry, but the companies within
that industry are not stable at all. I'm definitely getting a strong sense of
why someone would want to live near a tech epicenter now that I've left one.

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smt88
There are a lot of cities between SF and Madison in terms of software
companies, and all of them are cheaper than SF.

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argonaut
1) The gap between the Bay Area and other cities is more of a step function
than a smooth curve.

2) You don't have to live in SF proper.

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probinso
Many programmers start their career by trying to optimize their income to
achieve independence , rather than optimise their living expenses. this is
mostly because the market allows it

it is very rare for someone to intentionally decrease their income for a new
employment opportunity , and the highest paying jobs precede your next highest
paying jobs.

in the tech industry you are often rewarded for changing your job regularly.
if you subscribe to this model, and the bubble doesn't burst , than this can
be a very profitable approach to life.

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smt88
I make better money than the average SF developer at my age, and my cost of
living is half of what it would be in SF. I also work 40 hours per week (or
less) and work-life balance is highly valued in our small startup scene.

Optimizing for independence is something you would explicitly be moving _away
from_ by living in SF, since your income (adjusted for cost of living) is
lower there. There are studies showing that as well.

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ddorian43
Please give more info where you're located, and by whom you're employed, and
if you're local or remote.

Ex: living in NL and getting WA level remote salary 150K+ (you get the point).

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smt88
I prefer not to give that many personal details out on HN. If you're curious,
please feel free to email me via the address in my profile. I'm happy to chat!

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chmielewski
California state is broke. Over the last three years it's gotten better, but
compared to 8 years ago, desperate. More people would move there (the new DC?)
Which is why "use tax" on vehicle tags is still a thing... and the amount of
military in CA? Well they don't (usually) have to pay it.

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dhogan
Try flipping it: Given the potential salary, why would a developer NOT live in
Silicon Valley?

But really I think it's largely being around so many like-minded people. The
community and the fact that companies are there for similar reasons. At least
that's one reason why I personally would want to be there. To have the best
opportunity to learn and grow.

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dyeje
I'm not sure if that math checks out. What are usual starting salaries in SF
for mid level engineers?

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skylark
When I was a junior engineer, I was making 115k in SF. On average I'd put
2-2.5k/month into savings.

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b3b0p
When I was a starting developer in Oklahoma, making just a smidgen more than
half of that I was saving the same ($55k-$60k). Worked barely 40 hours per
week and lived in an apartment less than a block from work.

I left because I wanted and liked living in the middle of the city and wanted
a change. I'm in Austin now and I feel like downtown Austin offers a nice
compromise between expense of living and salary and tech community (like
minded individuals) when compared to San Francisco. My salary is similar to
what I was offered in San Francisco (almost negligible difference), but my
apartment is substantially nicer than anything I had a fighting chance for in
San Francisco. I bike or walk everywhere and don't need or use a car. I'm very
close to feeling like I've hit the sweet spot and being content.

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nitwit005
At the moment, the SF bay area still has the most choices if you're looking
for a new job.

That actually translates into something of a financial advantage. The two
largest pay raises I've gotten have been from quitting and joining another
firm.

It depends how settled down you are of course. Being willing to move is
generally financially beneficial as well.

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atarian
As a twenty-something who grew up and lived in different parts of California,
I actually think this one of the best places to live. If I had the money, I
would totally buy a house here. San Diego would be next on my list.

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kasey_junk
Because its close to their job? Commute time is highly related to happiness.

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smt88
The question implied that the alternative would be to work in another city as
well as live in another city...

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kasey_junk
Ah, I thought they meant "why would a software developer working in Silicon
Valley live there."

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banku_brougham
i live in Seattle. i like the bay, but a company cant (wont) compensate me
enough to move to Palo Alto where buying a house is impossible.

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_RPM
Most likely because the best companies are there.

