
I invested three years in a site which failed - retube
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/ffu1n/iama_guy_who_invested_all_of_his_money_and_time/
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jonpaul
I think he is selling himself short. He is saying that he _wasted_ three years
of his life and now he feels stupid. I think that's a normal reaction. I
applaud this guy. Mark Cuban and Jeff Bezos have both made statements about
living life with no regrets. What if he didn't do it? Would he regret it
later? Surely in the three years this guy learned a lot about building a
business, marketing, coding, etc. I'll bet that next time he won't make some
of the same mistakes.

In three years he did more than most will ever do in their life. It would be a
tragedy for him to not try again at another business and just simply give up.

~~~
equark
I think he has regrets. He lost a lot of money and most of his friends. A lot
of people would say that learning about marketing and coding do not make it
worth it.

~~~
originalgeek
And those people are not entrepreneurs.

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colkassad
The name is terrible and I don't know what the site is about after examining
the landing page.

BUT -- this guy is young (I assume) and he had an idea, found help in
implementing it, and carried through. At least he has the drive. He just needs
to keep trying.

~~~
humj
I think another important lesson here is that there's a big difference between
putting in the time and putting in the work.

In the comments, he says the website took the developers he hired about a
month. He doesn't even seem to associate himself with the making of the
product. Of course I don't the situation for sure so I'll phrase this as a
general comment. Sometimes, people think they can hire some programmers and
think, "I put in money, I put in time, this should work." 3 years is a lot of
time to run a website without learning to code, or reading a book about
entrepeneurship. Putting in the work doesn't mean, "if I dont know how to do
it, someone else will." It means "if I don't know how to do it, I'll learn."

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jarin
I disagree with the folks who say that contracting your development is ALWAYS
bad. I've been doing the development under contract for SetForMarriage.com for
over a year and a half, and it's going great (even though I have other client
work) because we communicate daily (it also helps that the owner and I were
co-workers before). I get pretty considerable leeway to play with features and
design (approval is almost always granted), and because of that I really enjoy
working on the site.

It only took a few months to hit our first thousand users, because the owner
of SFM spent a few days compiling a list of contact info for _every local news
station in the country_ , bugged them multiple times a week, and used vacation
days and skipped college classes to fly out and give live interviews (he works
for an airline so his flights are free). I was unsure of his hustling ability
before that, but boy did he prove me wrong. Plus, he's funding this whole
thing with airline salary and whatever's left over from his student loans.

I think the reason the Date or Done guy is so depressed is that he was never
able to admit to himself that either the idea was bad or he wasn't hustling in
the right ways. It's cognitive dissonance. We didn't spend any time on SEO for
Set For Marriage until a few months ago, and we didn't even have a real logo
until a couple of months after the site launched. I always hate to see people
get so attached to their ideas that they fool themselves. I think when you're
in the early stages it's better to be afraid that everything is on the verge
of miserable failure but always know that it's in your power to drag it out of
the mud into glory (or decide to pull the plug).

Also, I really hate to kick a guy while he's down, but if your social website
needs a walkthrough there's probably something fundamentally wrong:
<http://dateordone.com/how>

~~~
joshu
Having some trust with contractors is really important. I hired someone to
work on a pet project for me and i'm thrilled so far. First revision is mostly
done. He makes man decisionsn his own and I just run with it.

~~~
zackattack
how much are you paying him? i'd assume self-starter contractors command a
higher rate?

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guynamedloren
I cringe when I hear stories like this, because I know what it feels like when
something doesn't work. It's tough to get back up after being knocked down,
but this is more than that. This guy has been on the ground the whole damn
time, and he's just figuring it out. I hate writing negative things like this
and I'll probably get down-voted, but this boggles my mind.

 _> So I took a shot, I hired a programmer and a designer. I made payments for
2 years to pay all of this off. I had a custom logo made, I had a custom CMS
implemented and I spent a lot of advertising._

I applaud his effort, but that is absolutely insane. You know what else can be
done in 2 years instead of paying for a programmer and a designer? You can
learn to program and design. Yes. You really, really can. Anybody can. 2 years
is a really long time. And not only will you have a custom logo and a custom
CMS after 2 years, you will unlimited custom logos and unlimited CMSs for the
rest of your life (not to mention a whole load of other things you can do with
skills like that). I'm not even going to comment on whether the idea was a
great idea or a fundamentally flawed idea, but I can definitely tell you he
made horrible time/money investment choices along the way, and that's why he
failed.

 _> Now 3 years later my website has had about 30 users, and about 20 things
posted to it. I am out a lot of money, I have almost no friendships because I
spent almost all my time at work, college, or on the site. I spent way more
than I ever should have. I have become depressed and I can not believe I was
so stupid to think an idea I had could make it._

It really hurts to read this... but are you kidding me? Not to sound arrogant,
but I honestly don't even know how that's possible. 30 users over 3 years? And
there are how many billions of people on the internet? He spent a "lot" on
advertising... where? A bathroom stall in a funeral home? Does he know what
Google is? At this point in his rant, I couldn't resist any further. I had to
check out the site. It was better than I expected, but not great. It looks
eerily reminiscent of a pretty standard Wordpress template. Stanley Web Design
should be embarrassed of this work, and this guy should be embarrased for
hiring them.

All I can say is that I sure hope he learned something from this, because if
there's anything to be gotten here, it's a few pretty big life lessons (one of
them being not to rely or depend on others to get anything done for you). I
sincerely hope that he picks himself up and tries again, but maybe with a
little more know-how and elbow grease this time around.

~~~
kenjackson
_You know what else can be done in 2 years instead of paying for a programmer
and a designer? You can learn to program and design._

First, most people who aren't programmers don't know what can be learned in
two years. If you aren't a programmer you may not even know where to begin.

And I'm not a designer, but I took some drawing classes in college... but I
don't think I'd invest the next two years of my life to see if I could be a
good enough designer to create logos and other assets. I'd much rather pay
someone who can show me a kick butt portfolio today.

I don't think elbow grease was the problem. Rarely is, IMO. It's not knowing
the business and the market that screwed him. And that's what he needs to know
better going in. Learning Ruby or MVC or Javascript wasn't the delta between
success and failure.

~~~
guynamedloren
People can do _anything_ if they want it bad enough.

~~~
cubicle67
* for low values of anything

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ladon86
I think if he had been technical the damage would be seriously mitigated.

It's the kind of FML-clone site a lot of hackers would put up after a weekend
sprint. It looks reasonably polished, but not 3 years polished. What was the
revenue plan? Advertising?

~~~
muhfuhkuh
"What was the revenue plan? Advertising?"

How else would one of those "thumbs up/down voting + comments" sites be
monitized? People certainly aren't going to pay a subscription for it.

I like one of the upvoted comments on reddit: turn the ship slightly, port
over to Facebook, and slap adsense on it.

Then move on to the next idea.

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paul9290
Doing a start-up is like going to college, especially for those who cant code.
You put a ton of money into and either way the outcome should be positive;
either it's a crazy success or it wasnt but you gained invaluable
skills(coding & or online marketing), as well made some new friends by
throwing yourself into local start-up communities. Don't isolate yourself;
every town has a tech community.

Overall, his story mirrors mine; spent way over 100K & about 4 years on it. I
dont regret it, as the journey was a lot of fun, a great learning experience
and I met some great people/connections. We are even now are seeing others
creating & having a shot at the same concept(which is neat to see).

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dr_
Interesting comments, but let's face it - this was not a great idea. I'm not
even 100% sure what its about - I suppose people providing dating advice - but
isn't that what yahoo answers basically does as well? How do you plan to
compete with something like that? The Adwords banner ad does not look nice on
so primitive a startup with hardly any users, but maybe this was recently
added to generate some revenue, who knows. Also if you are paying a programmer
and want the site to look professional, they shouldn't include "Site designed
by Stanley Web Design" at the bottom. And the term "Submit Query" is just too
techie.

Live and learn, obviously he shouldn't give up. But if he is not going to be
the programmer, then he really should be the person focusing on design
aesthetics.

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pshapiro
Classic mistake: having someone else implement the site. How can you pivot,
adapt, and make good use of feedback if you can't work on the site without
having to pay money?

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pbhjpbhj
The cynic in me thinks this might just be an attempt to boost the site's
profile before sale. It's going to have lots of links it didn't have before
...

Also the idea isn't, I don't think, awful. It's not my kinda thing but it's
got something there. It looks pretty sub-optimal. Just the button text
"Detract From users reputation" speaks volumes to me; why is there a dropdown
and submit button for voting "do or done", why aren't they more prominent
[isn't that the point of the site?] ...

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chegra
Ok, I love the idea firstly and I think he shouldn't quit just yet, pivot and
iterate, yes.

Problems to be addressed.

1) Trying to do two things at once - It should be Date or Done, that is it
nothing else. Don't try to be Date or Do; do one thing and do it well.

2)Reduce the options available to users - Give your users too much choices and
they don't want to use your site, Choice Paradox. So, take away that form on
the front page about what they want to see.

3)Remove the How to Use - The site should be intuitive enough so that they
understand how to use the site.

4)One Question on the front page - Again limit the options the users have.
Only one question to respond to.

5)Don't require login to vote, Date or Done - Make it easy for the users to
interact with your site.

6)Seed your stories - Give your users something to munch on while they don't
have any questions of their own.

7)Make comments one liners - Comments should be able to fit in a twitter
status. Also, give them a button to allow for more characters.

8)Sharable comments - When you make a comment, it is suppose to be likeable
and tweetable[new words]. People have this need to show they are smart or
funny or whatever to their friends, make it easier for them do to this will
allow your site to spread virally.

9) Get a technical founder - I will leave the percentage up to you. But, a
huge chunk will be my suggestion.

10) Make link SEO friendly - I see they kinda seo friendly, but we need them
to be questions that people would actually google for.

11) Anonymous posting of questions

\--->

Take a month off and get back to it. You definitely have not tried everything.

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hartror
OR

 _I invested three years in gaining important startup experience for my next
project_

~~~
jlees
This is only true if he actually learnt what he did wrong. Looking at his
replies to some of the comments on Reddit, I'm not convinced he quite gets it.

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mkinnan
As many people have commented, the implementation of an idea is key. For
anyone with a startup idea, first think about how you would implement the
idea. Dwell on the implementation for weeks or months all the while trying to
think outside the box. Once you think you got something golden, pitch the idea
(just the idea and nothing more) to friends and family you trust to get
feedback. THEN ask them how they would implement the idea! Take their thoughts
and mold them with your own.

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rokhayakebe
Entrepreneurs need to realize success in business is an anomaly.

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TheSOB88
Jeez, they really tore into the poor guy. I think it was an admirable effort
at least. He already feels like shit, and they're just tearing him new ones.

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kjr
So this is why people say ideas are worthless? Because this idea was worthless
from day 1. Definitely a worthy learning experience though.

~~~
pavel_lishin
No. Even a good idea is worthless unless implemented. This is actually the
complete opposite of that.

