
New System76 Laptop: Lemur Pro - _jordan
https://system76.com/laptops/lemur
======
ben7799
The value of this new Lemur Pro is completely in how well the software works.

I had IT at my job buy me a Lemur Pro (previous model) a year or two ago.

If I just stayed at my desk all day it would have been better than the Macbook
Pro.

But software issues were always letting it down, and I was wasting lots of
time trying to patch/fix linux configuration issues & bugs. It got to be such
a waste of time I gave up and went back to the MBP.

Main issues were:

\- Lots of issues with wifi not connecting, wifi setup 1000x more complex than
windows/osx.. mostly around linux not having autodetect on the myriad options
on wifi

\- Switching between wired at the desk and wifi was problematic, difficult to
get up with the laptop and go to a meeting

\- Lots of issues with applications needing to be restarted when switching
from external to internal monitors

\- Lots of extreme battery drain when trying to do certain activities.. e.x.
video conferencing apps like zoom, webex, etc.. the fan would go 100% the
whole time and the CPU would peg due to video acceleration issues. The battery
could drain down 100% in a 30 minute meeting, etc..

I tried 2 different distros. It didn't really make a difference.

So realistically.. hardware on this thing is probably fine, if not as fancy
looking as a MBP. It has more useful ports, so less need to carry dongles.

But it's a time waster in a lot of office/dev environments if the software
integration hasn't improved.

This is the kind of stuff that wouldn't bother me on a personal laptop where
the goal was to hack on linux. But it was a deal breaker on a corporate laptop
where I needed to focus on the product.

~~~
danieldk
I am not sure if this will ever get better. E.g. Intel GPUs that were
perfectly fine for quite a while, now have regular hangs with Linux 5.3 and
5.4 [1]. Since Linux 5.4 is an LTS version, various distributions have already
switched to it. I had to downgrade to Linux 4.19 on one of my machines,
because my GPU locked up ever 1-2 days.

Nonsense like this make Linux difficult to use on a laptop that you have to
carry around and get real work done.

[1]
[https://linuxreviews.org/Linux_Kernel_5.5_Will_Not_Fix_The_F...](https://linuxreviews.org/Linux_Kernel_5.5_Will_Not_Fix_The_Frequent_Intel_GPU_Hangs_In_Recent_Kernels)

~~~
AsyncAwait
Interestingly, I am running a 10th Gen Intel Iris Pro GPU and had no problems
on these kernels, (Arch)/

There were minor issues on 5.5 at the start of the cycle when some patches
were overlooked, but that's all fixed now.

I honestly don't experience more problems than with my MacBook, (especially
after major upgrades).

Maybe the issue is people just keep defaulting to Ubuntu and equating their
experiences there with Linux as a whole. Maybe it just isn't the best distro
around.

I'd honestly go with EndeavourOS, Manjaro or if you want to stay in the Ubuntu
ecosystem, maybe Mint. I know everybody always says just switch distros, but
honestly Ubuntu hasn't been the best distro around for anything for over a
decade.

~~~
matthewbauer
I would be really surprised if Ubuntu had issues that Manjaro or Arch don't
have. Debian and Ubuntu is usually pretty ahead on testing different hardware
combinations. Most likely this is some hardware-specific issue and you don't
own the same hardware as GP.

~~~
AsyncAwait
No doubt Canonical tests more, but there's something about the way they
configure the kernel and packages that gave me more problems over the years
than most other distros. In fact, the first Ubuntu install ever, back in '06
failed for me completely, while Mandrake worked.

I do appreciate that this is subjective, I just wished Ubuntu isn't the only
choice people evaluated when trying Linux.

~~~
hvis
Ubuntu has been fairly solid for me, over several laptops and almost a decade
of releases.

Freezes due to graphics drivers (on Intel) is something from ~3-5 years ago,
I'd say.

And let's be realistic, when people are just trying GNU/Linux (for the first
time), they will go for the most popular and user-friendly distro available.
Or, at least, they should.

------
holstvoogd
Bought a Darter Pro last year, newest version, and as a long time apple user I
just want to say: beware, the build quality is another ballpark. There is a
reason mac books are 1k more expensive, they are that much better imo. Even
with the shitty butterfly keyboard.

Not trying to shit on System76, it is a fine laptop and in a couple of ways
better than a mbp, just not as 'premium'.

Oh, and they have no resale value, I getting offered ~20% of the new price for
a laptop that has only been used for a week. Not surprising really, small
market and all. And here (NL) nobody knows System76.

~~~
PascLeRasc
That's partially because System76 doesn't currently design and produce their
laptops, they rebrand Clevos. This new Lemur Pro appears to be this model [1]
so unfortunately it'll also have poor build quality. From System76's careers
page and their posts about Thelio it seems like they'll be designing their own
laptops soon, and based on the Thelio I'd bet they'll be much more solid.

[1] [https://clevo-computer.com/en/laptops-
configurator/purpose/b...](https://clevo-computer.com/en/laptops-
configurator/purpose/business-and-office-solutions/3804/clevo-l141cu-intel-
core-10th-comet-lake-intel-uhd-graphics-620-metal-chassis-mil-std-810g)

------
ambulancechaser
I would purchase today except there doesn't seem to be any screen options
higher than 1080. I can't go back to 1080 after years of 4k monitors and mbp
retina for work and x1 carbon 2k screen on personal laptop.

~~~
PascLeRasc
I wish someone else besides Apple would discover the 16:10 ratio. I love my
MBP but every company I've worked at has been allergic to OS X. Right now I'm
stuck working from home on a 1366x768 screen because it's "business-class".

~~~
alphadevx
The 2020 model of Dell XPS 13 has 16:10 @ 4K AFAIK. If you get the Developer
Edition, it comes with Linux preinstalled.

~~~
sbierwagen
4K on a 13.4" panel? [https://www.sven.de/dpi/](https://www.sven.de/dpi/) says
that comes out to a crazy 337 PPI. Current Macbook pro is 226.

~~~
NotSammyHagar
I have one. It's pretty. But it provides no useful thing other than occasional
touch screen use. But it has _terrible_ battery life. 5 hours is good.

Supposedly the fhd (1080p approx) has much better battery life. I regret
getting the 4k screen. For OP above, what's your battery life like? Mine is so
bad I keep thinking something must be broken. I'm not doing compiling all day
either, doing small things in bash, not killing the cpu, web pages.

~~~
cge
That depends on use. For working on or reading papers, it's great: I've
significantly cut down on the number of drafts and papers I print, as the
screen's ppi is high enough that figures will appear at a similar resolution
to what most researchers will have on their printers when adjusted to the
correct size on the screen.

------
trey-jones
This looks cool. There is an important question that won't be answered for a
while yet:

 _How long will the battery continue to give you a 21 hour charge?_

Things might have changed since the last non-mac laptop I used regularly, but
right now I have a 2013 Macbook Pro on the original battery that I still find
usable for several hours at a time. I've never known a laptop other than a
Macbook that comes close to that. Like I said, my knowledge of the subject is
limited and I would love illumination on widely available battery quality in
the 2020s.

In other news, as it became apparent that my 2013 MBP was not really fit for
primary use anymore I went back to a desktop for everyday and I actually love
it. I still carry the MBP for remote work and just-in-case, but the HEDC is
really, really nice (12 cores, of course), since most of my time is spent in
the office anyway.

~~~
throwqwerty
just FYI you can change the battery on that mbp pretty easily

[https://youtu.be/fupkPz55tUo](https://youtu.be/fupkPz55tUo)

I used shoe laces. just be sure you get the right battery - I had to reorder
mine because plug was actually shifted a little.

------
yjftsjthsd-h
_Looks_ nice, uses coreboot and disables ME :), i5/i7, "Up to 40 GB DDR4", "2×
M.2 SSD. Up to 4TB total." Holy cow that's a powerful machine.

> USB Type-C Power Delivery Compatible

It's capable of charging by USB-C? Then why does it have the old-style
circular power jack?

~~~
tw04
Because it only has a single usb-c port. They probably want people to have the
option of charging the laptop while also plugging in something over usb-c. Why
they didn't just do two usb-c ports, I don't know. Maybe someone from System
76 can answer that.

~~~
bluGill
They don't make their own laptops (yet, it is in the plan but probably not for
10 years), they buy enough laptops to have input on how they are designed, but
in the end they don't get everything they want.

Edit: 10 years is my guess. There are hints they might make their own laptops
sooner. Time will tell.

------
babypuncher
How are barrel connectors _still_ a thing? Apple figured out the correct way
to hook up a power supply over a decade ago. Of all the design decisions
manufacturers like to copy from Apple, why do they avoid this one like the
plague?

~~~
bloody-crow
If you're taking about magsafe, it's patented. Apple reverted to USB-C
charging on all current models, which is not as cool as magsafe, but on the
bright side, you can now charge on either side and use the port for other
things when not charging.

~~~
PascLeRasc
Somehow Microsoft is able to produce magnetic chargers for their Surface
devices though. It'd be nice if Apple would allow the patent to be breached
now that they're not using it.

~~~
jcrawfordor
Apple holds a patent on magnetic charging, Microsoft holds a patent on
magnetic charging + data ports, as well as a patent on magnetic USB-C now. I'm
not sure how well these would hold up against Apple's patents in court, but I
think the two companies both have so many lawyers and so many patents that
there's a bit of a mutually assured destruction situation with either going
after the other on charging technology.

------
emsy
If it wasn't for the 16:9 screen I'd buy it in an instant. Specs are
sufficient for me, the battery life sounds enticing and the screen is matte.
I'm just curious if I'm the only one that has such a strong preference for a
less wide screen ratio.

~~~
jacek
No, I would also love a laptop with 3:2 or 16:10 screen. And a Ryzen 4000 APU.

Actually System76 might offer self manufactured laptops with AMD Ryzen in the
future [1]. I hope they will consider a better display then. Currently they
are basically rebranding Chinese laptops (like Clevo).

[1]
[https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=System76...](https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=System76-AMD-
Laptop-Possibility)

~~~
e12e
Looks like Microsoft surface with ryzen 4000 might be comming. Will be
interesting to see if it fares any better than previous Gen vs Intel, though:

[https://www.anandtech.com/show/15213/the-microsoft-
surface-l...](https://www.anandtech.com/show/15213/the-microsoft-surface-
laptop-3-showdown-amd-picasso-vs-intel-ice-lake)

Rumor:

[https://www.techradar.com/au/news/amd-ryzen-4000-powered-
mic...](https://www.techradar.com/au/news/amd-ryzen-4000-powered-microsoft-
surface-device-may-be-coming-soon)

Still waiting for full touch support for surface pro 4 in mainline Linux -
other than that it's a pretty snazzy machine. The keyboard is great (if not
quite IBM era thinkpad great.. But what is?). Would prefer a matte screen
though.

~~~
Koshkin
> _comming_

OT: I wonder if this should be spelled with a 'k'.

------
pnathan
Cool! My wife and I have System76 laptops, and they work quite well.

Congratulations to the System76 team, I look forward to seeing your success as
you go forward.

------
mark_l_watson
Wow, 2.2 pounds, really light weight. I have had one of their Oryx Pro laptops
for 18 months and really like it. I don't need a light weight laptop now, but
if something happened to my MacBook I would consider it.

------
airstrike
I hate specs that are stated like "up to 40 GB DDR4".

How much RAM does one get in the base $1,099 model? It seems that info is
nowhere to be found

~~~
OJFord
That is annoying, but if you really want to know, I suspect it's almost
certainly 8GB.

------
onionionion
I've been looking for a non-mac machine to replace a 2017 macbook pro, and
this looks great, but I can't divorce myself from the higher dpi screen. If
this could match the mbp I'd order right now.

------
esaym
I need to update my 8 year old T520 with quad core i7.

I've been looking at the system76 series all year but can't really make myself
pull the plug on anything. I can get a two year old T580 with similar specs
for probably $600 on ebay.

But honestly, I'm tired of using Intel laptops (been doing that for over 15
years). Really hoping something more promising (and with better linux
compatibility) from AMD powered laptops pop up soon. Lenovo already has some
AMD stuff in their smaller T series lineup, but almost nonexistent in the used
market (for now).

~~~
erikw
A Lenovo E495 Ryzen 7 U3700 with 32GB RAM and an NVMe will set you back around
$600-700 today. Actually more expensive now than it was several months ago,
but I would expect these to be inexpensive used within a year. Zero hardware
issues in NixOS or Ubuntu, USB-C charging, outputs to 2 external displays plus
the internal without any additional fan noise.

I've got zero complaints, especially since this is not Lenovo's top business
line.

~~~
lliamander
I have an E495 (but with the 3500U) and the thing runs like a champ. I run
Solus on it with no issues. It's build quality is excellent as well:
consistent with my work-issued P50s, despite only being a (budget-focused)
E-series.

I briefly considered getting a T-series, but the presence of soldered RAM is
what killed it for me. Unless the RAM has to be soldered and there is some
benefit for the consumer (which is what I've heard for LPDDR4 RAM) then
soldering RAM just kills the ROI for me. I purchased my with only 8GB of RAM
and will upgrade when I find the right deal.

~~~
erikw
Great point that I forgot to mention, because I take it for granted- this
laptop is upgradeable (SATA, NVMe, and RAM), so you don't have to commit 100%
upfront, but can upgrade over the life of the computer.

Regarding an above comment about the resale value of the Lemur, I'll be
interested in how my e495 depreciates over time. It included Windows 10 Pro,
which I left on a partition, expecting to dual-boot into. I haven't ended up
needing it yet, but it will probably contribute a higher resale price- just
delete my Linux partition, resize Windows back to 100%, and toss onto eBay.

------
pachico
It looks definitely a good alternative to XPS, which is what I work with.
Both, most importantly, have matte screens. I can't understand how people can
code with glossy screens...

~~~
vladvasiliu
I used to think the same, but I think it depends on where you are. Inside, or
in fairly low light situations, matte screens are great.

However, as I'm currently working from a suburban house and am able to go
outside, I've discovered the glossy screen of my 2013 MBP is actually more
legible when the sun's up than a matte external monitor (Dell P2415Q), both
set to maximum brightness.

Sure, there are way more reflections and I have to wear dark clothes, but if I
use a light background I can see the text fairly well.

On my external display the light is so diffused that the contrast is terrible.
Even if there are no reflections, text is so washed out it's much harder to
read.

~~~
pachico
I understand what you say but I prefer not to do workarounds with my working
tools. Imagine that, rather than "I wave to wear dark clothes" I said "yes, I
must be facing north to work properly" or "I have to hold the USB connection
to make work" you would immediately say "no way". :)

------
jeffFrom18F
The advertised battery life appeals to me, if it does indeed work as
advertised. I have a 3-year-old Oryx Pro, which I probably over-indexed on
performance on. Everything about it is great with the exception of the battery
life which is usually < 1 hour (surfing the net or programming, nothing
crazy). I would have gone with a different offering if I had known this.

~~~
acidburnNSA
That's what I've been reading about those a lot. I think they took the
feedback seriously and packed this thing with a real whopper of a battery. I'm
pretty excited by this development.

------
martin_a
720p webcam? I know this is complaining on a high level, but as smartphones
come with 16 MP cameras, why are laptops still so behind?

~~~
yjftsjthsd-h
> smartphones come with 16 MP cameras

Front-facing?

~~~
martin_a
Oh boy, don't nail me down on the numbers but look at the image quality some
of those front facing cameras can get you: [https://www.dxomark.com/the-best-
smartphone-front-cameras-of...](https://www.dxomark.com/the-best-smartphone-
front-cameras-of-2019-2/)

And we're mostly stuck with blurry pixel mess in devices which cost several
times the price of a smartphone.

~~~
josteink
> And we're mostly stuck with blurry pixel mess in devices which cost several
> times the price of a smartphone.

It’s not that black and white.

These days you can get $200 laptops and $2000 smart-phones.

~~~
martin_a
Well, as written in another comment: A brand new $4000 MacBook Pro will come
with a lousy 720p front facing camera, while some used smartphone for $200
might be able to provide you with a better image quality.

~~~
lonelappde
720 is more than plenty of resolution. That's midway between DVD video and
Blu-Ray. Resolution is not a major factor image quality. Lens and light
sensitivity is.

------
JimmyRuska
I've been using linux as my primary operating system for a long time now. The
last two laptops I installed linux on, I've had have had multiple problems,
even using Pop OS. Dell inspiron bought from costco was awful, had to switch
it back to windows. The graphics card never worked, the wifi was flaky. I got
a thinkpad e495. Lots of issues, the whole computer freezes when you open
chrome, reinstalled everything several times, tried the latest kernel, it
won't come back from sleep sometimes and I lose all the things I had open.

If system76 can offer solid experience in terms of hardware support on modern
specs, I'm happy to pay a premium to get the best experience. I guess it would
be also useful if there was some site that ranked new laptops by linux
compatibility, I don't want to pay a premium either if it takes 10 minutes to
install linux from a USB stick, and people could confirm a machine works well.

~~~
MonaroVXR
I got the ThinkPad E585 also with an AMD SOC. There were some difficulties
with the new AMD hardware.

[https://github.com/StellaArtuois/Installing_Linux_on_ThinkPa...](https://github.com/StellaArtuois/Installing_Linux_on_ThinkPad_E585)

------
eugeniub
Very cool overall, but to me USB-C is the default port I use. Most of my
cables are USB-C on one end, not USB-A. I can't see myself buying a laptop
with just one USB-C port. Does it even charge via USB-C? It says "USB Type-C
Power Delivery Compatible" but I don't know if that's just power out or power
in as well.

~~~
outworlder
How the tables have turned.

------
Ingon
This model finally fixes the arrow keys issue I had with the previous ones-
because the up arrow key takes up space from the right shift, I was frequently
hitting up, instead of shift.

16:9 is ok for 14in laptop, but would be great if we get a 16:10. Still, not a
dealbreaker.

Everything else sounds great!

------
estebarb
It would be nice if the keyboard comes in other layout like ISO. It would help
map keys better in other languages like spanish. I want a key for the Ñ.

------
kdamica
Looking forward to seeing reviews of this one. I have a Galago Pro and my
biggest issue is the battery size, so it's good that they went with a larger
battery here. But I have lots of other issues with it so hopefully this model
is better overall.

Also curious what "USB Type-C Power Delivery Compatible" means. I can charge
over USB but the included charger is an old-style one?

~~~
pathartl
Yes.

------
utxaa
for ~ the same price:

[https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air/space-
gray-1....](https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air/space-gray-1.1ghz-
dual-core-core-i3-processor-with-turbo-boost-up-to-3.2ghz-256gb#)

[https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/configure/Surface-
Lapt...](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/configure/Surface-
Laptop-3/8VFGGH1R94TM?crosssellid=drawer2&selectedColor=CBB1A0&preview=&previewModes=)

[https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-t-
ser...](https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-t-
series/c/thinkpadt#compareSection) -

------
aorth
Waiting for reports on build quality...

------
lonelappde
> *Tested at the default display brightness measuring watts consumed while
> separately watching videos on YouTube, reading articles on Wikipedia, and
> editing in VIM separately.

So, they didn't actually measure the 16hr Wikipedia / 21hr vim?

They just extrapolated from a non-linear power curve?

~~~
acidburnNSA
They know the Watt-hour capacity of the battery (~70 Wh) and they now know how
many watts each activity takes in steady state (W). What's the non-linearity?
Does the power usage of those activities change with time, or does the
integral capacity of the battery change?

------
greendave
Looks pretty nice. A pity there's no option for the 6-core Comet Lake CPU
(10710U). I assume the 40GB RAM limit is from 8GB soldered on, plus 2 slots.
16GB soldered would have been great too.

I wonder how Linux's support for USB-C docking stations is these days.

------
gtoast
USBC 3.1. Slim design. Integrated gpu. I'm all in. Can't wait.

------
iso1631
No ethernet port, what a shame.

Imagine just a few mm thicker, but a dozen extra ports.

~~~
mmstick
You can purchase a USB3 to 1G ethernet adapter for $10.

~~~
iso1631
A right pain, but more importantly you lose your only usb3 port

~~~
mmstick
Not if the gigabit ethernet adapter is also a USB3 hub, like so:
[https://www.amazon.com/USB-Ethernet-Splitter-HUB-
Network/dp/...](https://www.amazon.com/USB-Ethernet-Splitter-HUB-
Network/dp/B07G8VZ51Z)

------
DennisP
How are System76 trackpads these days? I bought one of their laptops five
years ago and the trackpad was near unusable, the cursor jumped all over the
place.

------
purpleidea
I want an ethernet port. Don't laptop makers get it? Even one of those slim
ones that flip up would work.

~~~
mmstick
Options like so exist: [https://www.amazon.com/USB-Ethernet-Splitter-HUB-
Network/dp/...](https://www.amazon.com/USB-Ethernet-Splitter-HUB-
Network/dp/B07G8VZ51Z)

------
miohtama
Looks interesting! How does it compare against Chromebooks in a similar price
range and specifications?

------
skrowl
Are they planning on making one that has discrete video? These specs look
pretty nice other than that.

------
aoeusnth1
Now might not be a good time to buy laptops with the new AMD 4000 APUs coming
in the next few weeks.

------
ancarda
>Security - Disabled ME

Does this mean I can (eventually?) run libreboot (coreboot with no binary
blobs)?

~~~
wmf
The ME and the FSP blobs have nothing to do with each other.

------
rgovostes
They are showing off that their laptop unfolds flat, but what is the use case
for that?

~~~
pengaru
When you're using the laptop's keyboard but a larger external monitor in front
of you.

Thinkpads have had this ability for as long as I can remember.

~~~
markstos
I hadn't ever considered that.

I'm also not sure I want my desk cat walking across the flattened screen.

~~~
pengaru
Having used Thinkpads exclusively for decades, I had no idea it was a unique
feature and nearly broke the hinge on my ex's Macbook Air when she was sitting
across from me and wanted me too see something on her screen.

I reached across the table and grabbed the top of her screen pulling it down
to horizontal while I leaned over to look down on it while she exclaimed
"stop! you're breaking it!" as her keyboard elevated her hands...

Fortunately I had my Thinkpad in front of me and immediately demonstrated I
wasn't completely insane for expecting it to be fine.

------
abinaya_codes
That's a great configuration laptop. Looking forward to try my hands-on it.

------
Groxx
As someone who has never heard of system76: what is this / why should I care?

I'm curious, but the "about us" doesn't describe what the business is trying
to do, just who's doing it. I assume it's on here for a HN-relevant reason,
but I'm not really seeing what it is...

~~~
mmstick
They sell high end Linux systems, and maintain the Ubuntu-based Pop!_OS Linux
distribution. The Lemur Pro — and other Intel-only laptops — are running open
source firmware developed by System76 in collaboration with Intel.

Who buys computers from System76? People that care about buying hardware
that's guaranteed to work with Linux, from a company that supports Linux. That
ranges from web developers to NASA.

------
villgax
A physical toggle for 1660ti & this would be the best laptop

------
Razengan
They have made the mistake of including a 720p camera, which, according to
some of the comments on MacBook-related posts, makes a laptop nigh unusable
and is totally unacceptable in this day and age.

~~~
Koshkin
720p is perfectly fine for a laptop camera.

------
baybal2
73Wh battery, not bad in such a slim design!

~~~
acidburnNSA
So epic. They got lots of complaints of battery life in the earlier models,
and that was the one thing keeping me from pulling the trigger. With this huge
battery and these specs I will have a really hard time not buying this to
replace my old Vaio.

------
modzu
is it made of aluminum yet?

------
MrMorden
Still no TPM? Seriously?

~~~
wmf
I think the System76 crowd would pay extra to not have a TPM.

