

Ethics: a company goes back on its promise to pay interview travel expenses? - Amanjeev

This is just an honest question. Please advice.<p>I had an interview with a company in Herndon VA. Its a software company and I was being interviewed for an open position there. I live in Manchester, NH. I was told that they will reimburse up to $750 of the travel expenses. I was given only 1 day notice to be at the interview. I understand that I could have negotiated the interview date, but thinking that:<p>1. They are paying up to $750, I might be able to make it.
2. The program manager apparently had only that time slot available in the entire week (who apparently did not show up).<p>So, I said I will be there. I had cleared three phone interviews so far. This was supposed to be the final in-person interview. Unfortunately, I was not selected even though I do feel my interview had gone well.<p>So, in such a short notice, I booked a flight and a car and the cost came out to be around $700. I submitted my expense report and receipts later and was told to wait till the payroll runs. I followed up after a month and they said they cannot process it because it is too much of an amount. I sent the finance personnel the email sent by HR that they have up to $750 for me.<p>Then he called me and started to haggle/bargain this price with me. I do not have a job at present and I hope people here at HN know what is it to be jobless and still take out close to 1000 bucks.&#60;p&#62;It has been 2 months now and despite my several emails, they do not even reply.<p>What are the ethics here? I have original receipts and I have their emails.<p>What should I do?<p>Am I right in asking them that reimbursement as they had promised?
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bonsaitree
The ethics are clearly in your favor, but it's highly unlikely that formal
legal actions will result in any net dollar gains on your part. I'll explain.

Assuming you've completely exhausted casual diplomatic channels, I would
firstly send out a formal "letter of demand" (registered return receipt) which
includes an itemized list of your expenses, copies of your receipts, the
relevant correspondence, and "pay-by" date (usually 30 calendar days from
post-mark). Think of it as if you're formally presenting your case to a judge,
but that judge is pre-disposed to rule against you. Be thorough.

Legally, assuming you have documentation to back-up their $750 budget, their
request for your physical presence, and your $700 of expenses, it looks like a
clear case of "breach of contract".

The only flimsy legal leg the company might have to stand on is if the
particular HR representative didn't have "agency" to represent the company in
your travel reimbursement negotiations (highly unlikely since it seems as if
you've already spoken directly with someone who's post-facto implied such an
agency by haggling).

I live in Northern Virginia just south of Herndon. FWIW, IANAL, but as a
business owner, home owner, and investor, I have more than a passing personal
expertise in VA commercial contract law at both the small-claims and general
district court level.

If, after the formal demand letter, they don't pay-up and you still wish to
pursue formal channels, the amount falls under small-claims statutes.
Technically, you'll be filing for a "warrant in debt" [PDF]
<http://tinyurl.com/2fk54ce> rather than "breach of contract". This is both
good and bad. It's good since the current general case docket in VA right now
is about 10 months.

It's bad in that, as a person, you MUST represent yourself in small claims
court in VA. Only a company has the "luxury" of formal in-court legal counsel
under small claims in VA. At the minimum, you're going to incur a risk that
your additional filing and travel expenses to/from the hearing itself may not
be included in the final judgment (most of the time they aren't).
Nevertheless, you'll want to include them for possible liens, etc. Much like
taxes, don't be afraid to itemize. Since it seems that some time has past
already, don't forget to include interest.

If the company is not properly registered in VA (check here
<https://sccefile.scc.virginia.gov/> ) you'll have to file suits against its
owners. One other "gotcha" that particularly litigious companies will often
try to do is opt for a formal transfer of your case to the normal civil
docket. If they're already paying retainers for legal representation, it costs
them essentially nothing to try.

Amortize these formal efforts over time. I suspect that your individual
attention is worth far more than the resulting hourly rate.

~~~
ganley
Note also that there's a small cost to filing a small-claims case in VA - I
believe it's the cost of getting the warrant served. Last I checked, it was in
the neighborhood of $80. Sadly, @bonsaitree is probably right: even if you
win, this probably isn't worth your time. One thing you might try, which
worked for me once, is to type something up that resembles a lawsuit and mail
it to them with a note that you're about to file this, so this is their last
chance to settle first.

~~~
bonsaitree
Um, I _HIGHLY_ recommend that you _DO NOT_ do this.

Technically, you are mis-representing yourself as an "officer of the court"
(e.g. a firm which employs people who have passed the Virginia bar). It's a
crime similar to impersonating a law enforcement officer.

However, along these lines, it's perfectly reasonable to hire an attorney
(some will do it gratis or for an extremely small fee) to draft a follow-up
"letter of demand threatening suit" in their office's letterhead.

In practice, all this does is intimidate the legally ignorant (e.g. not
normally any kind of corporation) since the attorney must go through the exact
same legal hurdles as the debtor and the amounts involved in this case would
never be worth engaging the firm's personnel.

Essentially, these levels of disputes are "write-offs" and "costs of doing
business" to those who can afford to hire an attorney in the first place.

The _only_ reason to engage an attorney here is if you wished to wage a
profitless, but potentially damaging, negative PR campaign (think Gloria
Allred) against this firm.

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mattm
Perhaps they didn't hire you because they are having money troubles? It sounds
like that could be a problem with them.

People will generally do something if it becomes more of a problem for them
NOT to do it. You said it's been 2 months and you've ONLY sent "several
emails."

You need to set aside 15 minutes per day and call them every single day until
you have your money. You need to become a big pain in their ass so much that
they know that at 11am they are going to receive a call from you asking where
your re-imbursement is. Don't email because they can easily be deleted. You
need to phone and be polite but firm.

You are definitely right here to get this money.

~~~
bonsaitree
FWIW, that sort of phone behavior can be construed as "harassment".
Additionally, VA is a "one-party" wiretap state so the company could very
easily record the content and frequency of these phone calls and have your
number blocked, and/or file a criminal complaint against you.

You are correct in that emails can be deleted, logs altered, and records
"misplaced".

A single written demand letter (sent registered return receipt) by USPS is all
the "notification" necessary.

~~~
Amanjeev
I see. Thanks.

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jacquesm
Mail them that if they don't re-imburse you promptly that you will name them
publicly ?

They can't really fire you and they won't be hiring you. I don't expect
they'll be suing you (but that's always a chance).

If I were them I'd pony up.

If you have it in writing get a (friendly, so it won't cost you more $) lawyer
to write them a nastygram first ?

~~~
Amanjeev
I have their HR's email stating that they have reserved $750 for me from
corporate so that I can be reimbursed. I just am not sure if this is my right.
I mean, they did promise me and I have their email stating that but isn't it
their discretion?

~~~
jacquesm
As far as I can see it is a 'contract', they said if you do 'x' they'll re-
imburse you, you did 'x', they should pay up.

It's definitely not at their discretion to haggle or refuse after the fact.

Until you ordered that ticket they could have backed out.

I'm really surprised they would do this, no reputable firm would mess up like
this.

Also makes me wonder if you're the first.

~~~
chollida1
> As far as I can see it is a 'contract', they said if you do 'x' they'll re-
> imburse you, you did 'x', they should pay up.

I'm not a lawyer, though I do think you are right in this instance.

One thing to keep in mind though is that if an employee does not have the
authorization to make such an agreement then the company isn't liable.

I forget the legal term for this type of person, agent comes to mind.

~~~
jacquesm
> One thing to keep in mind though is that if an employee does not have the
> authorization to make such an agreement then the company isn't liable.

I don't think that it is that simple. If a worker for the city cleaning
department comes up to you and offers to sell you a small building the city
owns then yes, the city is not bound because you can assume that he has no
such authorization.

But if the mayor of the town would make you an offer to buy a small building
the city owns (in writing) then you'd definitely have a case of sorts, even if
it turned out afterwards that he did not have the authority.

It's all about the expectations of authority on the part of the recipient, if
those expectations are in line with the function of the other party. And in
this case it is perfectly ok to assume that if an HR person from a company
offers to re-imburse you for your costs if you make the trip that they will
actually do so.

~~~
andyjdavis
as always, Im not a lawyer.

It may vary where you are but in Australia if its reasonable for you to
believe the employee has the authority to make such an agreement then its
binding (everything else being equal). The employee's actual authority isn't
relevant.

Otherwise people saying "oh, they didn't have the authority" becomes an
instant way to wriggle out of any deal after the fact and contracts everywhere
become worthless.

Side note: this is one of the big reasons why big companies are so strict in
their rules about low ranking employees speaking to anyone within their
premises or while wearing anything identifying you as employee. It suggests
you are an agent of the company and thus speak for the company.

When I worked in a large supermarket chain many years ago all staff but store
management were absolutely forbidden from speaking to anyone about pretty much
anything because we were agents of the company and thus could be presumed to
be speaking for the company.

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arethuza
Be very pleased that you _didn't_ get a job there - if they treat job
applicants like this they will probably treat their employees just as badly.

~~~
Amanjeev
I totally agree. Perhaps, it is a boon in disguise.

~~~
andyjdavis
-Well, that represents quite a boon.

-Oh, an enormous boon.

-Well, we're always on the lookout for enormous boons.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nTmSu6v0LA>

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coryl
Wow, ask them to pay you what you're owed and what they promised, absolutely
and finally. If they still beat around the bush, remind them about the
reputation of their company and how you feel that the public disclosure of the
way they treated you would not benefit their recruitment.

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staunch
You are absolutely right in forcefully requesting the refund. They're jerks
for making you ask twice.

Absolutely do not threaten them in anyway. Do out them in public if they don't
make it right.

------
JeffL
Isn't this a good case for small claims court?

