
US Uber drivers plan 12-hour shutdown over pay and conditions - AndrewDucker
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48051646
======
astura
[https://www.vox.com/2019/4/22/18511066/stop-shop-workers-
uni...](https://www.vox.com/2019/4/22/18511066/stop-shop-workers-union-strike-
contract)

This article is about a recent supermarket employee strike but it also makes
the argument that there's a larger labor movement that's sweeping across
America that started last year. Importantly the general public is
overwhelmingly supportive of the labor unrest. This Uber shutdown furthers
that argument.

So expect to hear about more worker stoppages, protests, walkouts, and strikes
in the near future.

>The [positive response from the public for striking supermarket employees]
echoes the support for public school teachers who launched major strikes
across the country in 2018 to protest low pay. It also suggests the labor
unrest, which swept across the US last year, is nowhere close to dying down

>Within 24 hours, the stoppage became the largest private sector strike in at
least three years, showing that last year’s spike in work stoppages across the
country was not an isolated phenomenon.

>A record number of US workers went on strike or stopped working in 2018
because of labor disputes with employers, according to data released in
February by the US Bureau of Labor Statistics. A total of 485,000 employees
were involved in major work stoppages last year — the highest number since
1986.

~~~
will_brown
There is no reason for this not to happen.

US corporations have record revenues/profits, US markets have never been at
higher highs...yet the gap between executive pay and common employee has never
been greater, social mobility has never been lower, wages have been stagnant
for workers for 30 years.

Unfortunately strikes are to little to late...look toward google who fired
organizers of the Google worker walkout, the powers that be have to much
power, don’t give a shit about legal rights/laws, and know they could replace
anyone with unpaid interns if needed because well that’s the state of
desperation already.

~~~
dfxm12
_know they could replace anyone with unpaid interns if needed because well
that’s the state of desperation already._

Is this true, given how low unemployment is? (With respect to Google engineers
being in a different situation from supermarket workers, teachers, uber
drivers, etc.)

I would think workers have more power now than ever in recent memory given low
unemployment and the current administration's aversion to immigration. Where
are these replacement workers coming from? I disagree that unpaid interns is
tenable solution.

------
ISL
Especially with Lyft as an alternative for both workers and customers, the gig
workers have more-than-usual power in this context.

If drivers are willing to accept Lyft's regular wages for a day, and refuse
the temptation of surge pricing on Uber, price-sensitive consumers will see
surge pricing on Uber and turn on the Lyft app.

If the goal is to threaten Uber's brand/customer-loyalty, this play might
work?

~~~
jquery
If they all drive for Lyft, they won’t get Lyft’s regular wages for a day,
supply and demand dictates there won’t be enough demand and they’ll get lower
wages.

~~~
DINKDINK
>supply and demand dictates there won’t be enough demand and they’ll get lower
wages.

Reductive.

Your model assumes demand for Lyft remains constant while supply increases.
This ignores the fact that supply is dropping at Uber, which causes a price
increase, which causes demand to shift else where...to Lyft which increases
demand.

~~~
jquery
Unlikely. While you and I may comparison shop, most people aren't going to
download a new app, enter their CC information, etc., just to skip a short
surge period. I don't check Taxi prices when Uber has a high surge during a
storm.

Additionally, many drivers who use both apps will simply _stop driving_ , so
Lyft is likely to see a surge as well.

~~~
DINKDINK
>most people aren't going to download a new app

Fair counter. There will be some lock in. Given that both platforms have
similar pricing means that there are strong arbitrage forces at play that keep
them in check.

------
johnwheeler
Uber has a brilliant albeit sad business model. In accounting terms, they have
no fleet maintenance or deprecation charges. Instead, that’s completely
offloaded onto the employee, which even further drags down their pay over
time, The business model plays off the boiling a frog in water model. Where if
you make incremental changes over a long period (in this case car wear and
tear), the subject is less likely to notice. I don’t hear anybody talking
about that.

~~~
maxxxxx
That’s pretty much the model of the gig economy. It used to be that in
exchange for loyalty companies would provide pension, health care and other
benefits. Pensions are already on the way out. Gig economy are slowly getting
rid of all other benefits. And people are getting used to it. A lot of young
workers know nothing about pensions and soon they will also not know about
other benefits employers would provide in the past.

------
chrisseaton
This will raise pay... for the drivers who don't strike and so are working
when the inevitable surge pricing turns on.

~~~
himynameisdom
I think we're on the same page in our thought process. The opportunity cost of
this strike is unclear to those who choose to take part. I'm not hopeful this
will bring the change these drivers are seeking.

~~~
pjc50
Everyone who ever goes on strike is aware that they are doing so at the cost
of their wages for that period. That's why long strikes are rare and
gruelling.

However, the cost to Uber is hard to predict - the strike is _on the day of
the IPO_. If they can depress the share price at IPO by a few percent that
potentially costs Uber far more than all the lost rides.

Edit: I suppose the entertaining thing about the gig economy is that it's
possible to be "on strike" at employer A while working for employer B.
Especially as there's no picket line here. (I think a few French anti-Uber
strike/protests _did_ have roadblock picket lines)

~~~
himynameisdom
Fair point. Interested in seeing how this all plays out.

------
duiker101
Good for them. Everyone I know loves to praise Uber and bash on taxis. while
some of the criticism toward taxis is definitely founded, Uber & co. are
definitely exploiting their drivers. I really hope that they can get what they
want.

~~~
buzzerbetrayed
I know I’ll probably take heat for this, but I really don’t understand this
idea of Uber “exploiting” drivers.

Being an Uber driver isn’t like other jobs where you have set hours to work,
bad working conditions, manipulative managers, etc... No one is keeping you
from getting another job and doing Uber on weekends, or doing Uber never. I
can’t think of another job where you are more free to do what you want and
make your situation better.

Seems pretty straight forward to me, but I know many people disagree. What
exactly is Uber doing to exploit drivers?

~~~
netsharc
I'll preface this with: In my understanding...

Basically, Uber and other "gig economy jobs" can only exist because of the
shit economic conditions of the last however many years. They are even worse
than McJobs because you're not even employed. Terrible regulations and
corporate lobbying has meant wages have been terrible for a lot of decades,
and people need 2, 3 jobs to survive. And in this environment Uber has
arrived, with a "It's better than nothing" job (although their ads promise a
lot more than that, obviously).

But the business environment is the environment.

After writing the above paragraph, I realized it seems like the problem is
that Uber promised their drivers good money, but the reality is much
different, the money is not enough to make a living, which is probably why
their drivers are pissed off and feel exploited. (If Job A (Uber) promised you
say $1000/week and job B promises you $800/week, you'd take job A. But if it
turns out job A only earns you $600 plus excuses, you'd be pissed off because
you would've been better off taking job B in the first place).

And add to that the psychological tricks:
[https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/04/02/technology/ub...](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/04/02/technology/uber-
drivers-psychological-tricks.html)

------
ProAm
Good luck with that. One of the key benefits of the gig economy is you're not
employees and easily replaceable.

~~~
CaptainZapp
_One of the key benefits of the gig economy is you 're not employees_

That's according to the gig economy and that's what the gig economy
frantically tries to communicate as the gospel truth.

Legally, and depending on the jurisdiction, this may not be the case.

EDIT :That's the first time I comment on a downvote: But would whoever
obviously doesn't like my opinion point out what's factually wrong with my
statement?

~~~
pjc50
No idea. It's now true in the UK, for example:
[https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/dec/19/uber-
lose...](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/dec/19/uber-loses-appeal-
over-driver-employment-rights)

~~~
CaptainZapp
I would also be wondering about Switzerland, which has some of the most
liberal employment laws in Europe.

Even though, an employer can't really do as she pleases. Some of the statutes
are changeable, some are not. And some are only changeable to the advantage of
the employee. For example: Minimum annual vacation is 4 weeks, which can be
changed to 5 weeks, but not shortened to less than 4 weeks.

An American company (with a local subsidiary) arguing that you're not an
employee, even though it controls all aspects of your work, and any dispute
should be arbitrated in Dellaware would be laughed straight of court.

------
thegabez
Here's a solution. Create a ride sharing platform that lets the drivers
actually be business owners. An Uber clone that would allow drivers bid on the
price of the ride and the "business" would take a small cut. The value Uber
created was getting people to buy into letting strangers (other than taxies)
drive them around and convincing people who otherwise wouldn't be taxi drivers
to become ones. So now that those two barriers have been broken down why not
take advantage of it? Would be easy to recruit the drivers and why wouldn't
they join such a network?

~~~
ISL
The difficulty would appear to be that there are more people who would like to
drive than there are riders who would like to ride at a wage that the drivers
would prefer.

Ride-share drivers already have a way to signal to the market that ride-share
wages are too low -- choosing to do something other than drive. It is the
absence of an alternative source of income that would make low ride-share
wages painful.

Once ride-share drivers meet the minimum threshold for driver quality/safety,
they are, perhaps unfortunately, a commodity in the eyes of the market, and
commodity markets are brutal.

~~~
thegabez
That is why this would work. Ride prices becoming a bidding war between
drivers. Say the price of an Uber ride is $5.00, why wouldn't a driver bid
$4.50 for the same ride, they take more of the profits? Furthermore, if I'm a
driver at the end of my shift and that rider wants to go to the corner store
next to my home, I'd bid even lower to win the ride. Thus, drivers and riders
are better off.

------
meddlepal
Good news for Lyft I guess.

------
himynameisdom
Hailing back to microeconomics 101, won't this cause a sharp decrease in
supply, causing an increase in price and higher wages for those who find it
economically-sensible to continue providing service in these cities until S&D
equilibrium is met again?

~~~
dsfyu404ed
Most drivers drive for Lyft too so they'll keep driving. It's like if Home
Depot workers go on strike lumber prices don't go up because the demand is
absorbed by Lowes.

~~~
jquery
Ironically the S-1s showed that Lyft objectively treats their drivers worse
than Uber.

------
jquery
Has an “Uber strike” ever caused anything except a temporary surge price?
Suppose there are a million drivers and this convinces 50,000 not to drive no
matter how high the surge gets... I wonder if there’s even 50,000 drivers who
would resist a 2x surge.

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gourou
This would probably have a huge impact if Uber had already done its IPO.

