
Entrepreneurial Tendencies Among People with ADHD - baristaGeek
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2405366
======
jrapdx3
After a few decades in field of ADHD treatment the big lesson is adult ADHD
presents in numerous ways, it's risky to generalize and easy to misconstrue
the impact of having the real, full-blown form of the condition.

The article speaks of entrepreneurial tendencies among ADHD individuals, but I
admit evaluating the claim based on the data given was difficult. I didn't
have the time required to make sense of the opaque presentation. However, does
appear sampling biases were likely since subjects were obtained from ADHD
support groups, where attendees are likely not representative of the entire
ADHD population. Furthermore, it's not clear what, if any, diagnostic
processes were used to determine ADHD status, thus the sample probably a
"mixed bag" and hard to know which populations conclusions apply to.

There is a major difference between vernacular usage of "ADD", and the plight
of seriously affected individuals that come to clinical attention. As I apply
the term, ADHD is not a minor or trivial condition, the data show it's
associated with increased health risks, comorbid psychiatric disorders, as
well as worse outcomes in social and occupational achievement.

Certainly it's worth pointing out that having ADHD does _not_ mean lack of
abilities or talents. It's always the goal to enable developing talents,
including in the entrepreneurial realm. In reality, the problem is having ADHD
is more likely than not to impede reaching that goal.

The science literature on ADHD has repeatedly shown decreased success in
important quality-of-life arenas, e.g., greater rates of divorce, less
educational achievement, higher rates of unemployment, poorer driving records.

OTOH when the right treatment is provided, ADHD individuals can have a better
outcome. The "gold standard" is functioning in a way that's "indistinguishable
from normal". It may not be easy to achieve, though I've seen it happen in,
well, a lot of cases.

------
anupshinde
I consider myself a amateur entrepreneur (and a bit successful) with ADHD.

Personally, I believe ADHD is a gift and a problem(s). And the problems need
to be solved to receive the gift.. And I read these workarounds or solutions
are basics of successful entrepreneurship.

Focus - Staying focused requires significantly more effort (even not doing
anything is an effort). This is stressful. When I am working on X, my brain
wants to switch to Y, and it goes on with multiple tasks. This used to drive
me crazy in early days and had to find a solution early on. For me the
solution was a bit change in work schedule, exercise and one ginseng based
multivit a day.

Passion - I can work 100+ hour week consistently without burn out - only if I
have do some creative work. For a repetitive or not-creative task - it gets
boring soon and even 15 hrs a week is a struggle. This makes it very difficult
to keep up with processes and discipline. This forces early
delegation/automation of boring work and forces me to find out areas I like to
work on. (Clearly this doesn't work as an employee).

Attention to detail is deficient naturally, we have to work around this with
discipline and practice even in non-entrepreneurial jobs. After some time we
get pretty good at it (because of practice).

ADHD folks are likely to have failed a lot in early life. And I believe they
are better equipped to tackle failure as adults.

People with ADHD may have a very diverse experience, they know something about
everything - probably because they cannot focus/disregard in a natural way.
Gaining expertise is more than just hard work for us.

When one cannot remember a lot of things, it forces you to keep it simple.
Being a bit forgetful was a bad thing, but now it feels like a good thing - I
am a programmer, and I tend to forget my own code if I do not work on it for
couple of weeks. However that limitation forces me to write modularised
intuitive code. I would consistently forget syntaxes of a language I worked
for 5 years - but I would forever remember the patterns/designs I followed. I
think, the world to us is more about patterns and behaviours rather than facts
and figures. And it is easier to learn with the glass half-full.

~~~
anupshinde
I watched this amazing 3 hour long video/info on ADHD shared by nickysielicki
in this thread below.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCAGc-
rkIfo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCAGc-rkIfo)

After viewing this video, it seems like many people diagnosed for ADHD could
be in the CDD/SCT like. This distinction was not made few years back. In fact
ADHD sounds seriously scary after looking at this video.

------
walterbell
Short video interview with Branson on dyslexia (and the difference between
"net" and "gross"),
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpvF5xCQ7s8](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpvF5xCQ7s8)

HBO 2013 documentary on dyslexia, with Charles Schwab & Richard Branson:
[http://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Picture-Rethinking-
Dyslexia/dp...](http://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Picture-Rethinking-
Dyslexia/dp/B00DT55OCM)

Books with behavioral strategies:

 _Organizing for the Creative Person_ , [http://www.amazon.com/Organizing-
Creative-Person-Right-Brain...](http://www.amazon.com/Organizing-Creative-
Person-Right-Brain-Conquering/dp/0517881640)

 _Neurodiversity_ , [http://www.amazon.com/Neurodiversity-Discovering-
Extraordina...](http://www.amazon.com/Neurodiversity-Discovering-
Extraordinary-Dyslexia-Differences/dp/0738213543)

 _Learning to Learn_ , [http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Learn-Rosemary-
Bowler/dp/0684...](http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Learn-Rosemary-
Bowler/dp/0684809907/)

 _Learning Outside the Lines_ , [http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Outside-Lines-
Disabilities-Ed...](http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Outside-Lines-Disabilities-
Educational/dp/068486598X/)

 _ADD Success Stories_ , [http://www.amazon.com/ADD-Success-Stories-
Fulfillment-Attent...](http://www.amazon.com/ADD-Success-Stories-Fulfillment-
Attention/dp/1887424032/)

 _Spark_ (exercise), [http://www.amazon.com/Spark-Revolutionary-Science-
Exercise-B...](http://www.amazon.com/Spark-Revolutionary-Science-Exercise-
Brain/dp/0316113514)

~~~
walterbell
The HBO documentary in four 15-min segments:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzp8FUZm5_M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzp8FUZm5_M)

------
joshmn
I don't like how ADHD is viewed as a disorder. I was diagnosed at an
adolescent, in my prime.

I like to think of it as a gift of creativity.

~~~
clickok
Sometimes it seems like a gift but other times... not so much. I am working on
a couple of projects right now, and it feels like every time I hit a tough
spot, the urge to do/think of something else really saps my ability to just
power through.

I can't make claims about anyone else's experience, but the really frustrating
thing for me is that these new tangents might actually be truly good ideas
worth pursuing[1]-- maybe even better things to work on than what I'm doing
currently. But I've been through this process before, and so I just write down
whatever this amazing new thought was in a notebook, and then convince myself
I'll follow up on it later.

I almost never do.

Still, the fact that I can't trust myself to switch tasks really bothers me,
and even the strategy of writing things down and pretending I'll handle it
later is not 100% effective[2]. So it's a mixed bag, where you might think of
it as a gift because new and exciting thoughts are always popping in, ready to
distract you, but in my case it is definitely also a disorder since a lot of
the things I want to do require a certain degree of focus and commitment, and
if I abandon them when I first start to feel bored I'd likely be unable to get
through to the really worthwhile stuff.

\---

1\. The key is of course that they _seem_ to be good ideas, but that might
just be my brain fooling itself in order to persuade me to goof off.

2\. I currently have something like 800 tabs open, the results of thinking "oh
I'll just read a little about this", getting distracted/having to sleep, and
now they sit across my various browser windows, preserved in the amber of my
virtual memory.

~~~
walterbell
Look at how writers, filmmakers and magazine publishers handle large
quantities of research topics and editorial content candidates. There is
usually some form of physical storyboard which clusters related material in a
physical location (e.g. vision board, very large binder) that can be
referenced by motor memory rather than symbolic memory. ADHD and dyslexia can
co-occur.

Martin Scorsese's Notebook for _The Godfather_ :
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DJfJJogeOdo](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DJfJJogeOdo)

People with ADHD can also be found in professions like accounting and law –
which provide compensatory external structure.

Some people would find it easier to locate objects if all containers (boxes,
closets, drawers, fridges) could be made transparent on demand. Until then, we
have vertical surfaces, metal wires + strong magnets, foamcore, whiteboard
paint, mesh drawers and transparent plastic containers.

~~~
jacquesm
If that were released in book form I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

------
PeteJacobs23
That's where teams come into play. Highly creative people won't be able to
finish unchallenging work. They need their counterparts. That lesson is one I
still need to accept. I often think quite arrogantly "They all don't get it.",
but the skill of finalizing is as an important skill as seeing, understanding
and finding creative solutions.

------
grovulent
adhd folk are natural risk takers... so this result is unsurprising.

One thing I've always wondered is how adhd folks didn't get selected out
through their risky behaviour. Their existence could certainly confer some
group benefits - but I thought group selection was no longer well regarded in
the evo biol community.

~~~
dholowiski
Because they only have to live long enough to reproduce. There are studies
showing people with adhd have a much higher risk of accidental (and non
accidental) death.

Adhd is not a superpower. It's an incurable brain disorder. It fucking sucks.

~~~
dmak
I don't like to view it as an disorder, because that says there is a correct
way that your brain should function. I think it's just different. Viewing it
disorder is self-defeating for people with ADHD, it's like saying they think
there is something wrong with them at all times, but there really isn't. They
just find different ways to do things.

~~~
baristaGeek
Exactly. It's just a difference in cognition.

~~~
falcolas
It is starting to aggravate me that every time we have articles like this come
up that people keep trotting out the crap explanations of "it's just another
way of thinking", because they saw it in some TED talk.

No, it isn't. It's a fucking neurological disorder which affects dopamine
production, which interferes with normal brain function.

Imagine sitting down to work on something you really want to finish, but you
can't. You're reading reddit instead, because that gives you a quick dose of
entertainment. You keep yelling at yourself to do the work, because it's your
job on the line. But no, you'll end up looking at cat pictures, because, hey,
cats. That's what ADHD is like.

~~~
walterbell
Have you been to an ADD conference where you are surrounded by hundreds of
similarly-wired brains? Neurotypical is defined by the local majority. In a
hunter-gatherer society, slow reaction time means no dinner. Don't be fooled
by labels which originate in specific social contexts. Environmental impedance
mismatches can be addressed by changing the human or changing the environment.

~~~
falcolas
You know what else means no dinner in a hunter society? Your spear breaking
because you forgot to fire harden it. Scaring away the pretty because you
inadvertently bumped into a tree (inadvertently bumping into things on a
regular basis is an indicator of ADHD). In a gathering society: not gathering
because a butterfly distracted you. That's the effect of ADHD.

ADHD doesn't make you some magical hunter, patience does. Reaction time has
nothing to do with ADHD, it comes from paying attention when the stimuli comes
about, something a person with ADHD can't do.

As for "normal", I base it off the figure of 95%. That is, our brains are
different from 95% of humanity. That strikes me as a good definition of
abnormal, better than "I surround myself with th those like me, so I'm totally
normal".

~~~
walterbell
If everyone has a spear-hardening "problem", there will be external structure
and rituals to ensure that this activity is not forgotten. Reaction time is
explicitly measured by one clinical test which diagnoses ADHD.

There is no normal, that's the main point. If you get enough people with
"AD(H)D" in a room, and ask a few questions about preferred cognitive styles
(sound, light, touch, motor movement) you will discover clusters of
preferences and a wide range of differences.

The label ADHD is most useful as a search term for a vocabulary of common
challenges. Naming any problem is necessary to develop shared solutions. Prior
to the advent of this term, non-neurotypical people independently named their
logistical challenges and independently re-invented solutions.

Are you familiar with the term hyperfocus? Is that a strength or weakness?

~~~
techdragon
If you want to be really correct it's a simple label for what is otherwise a
spectrum of symptomatic severity due to underlying neurological issues.

I've met plenty of people who are 100% ADHD, both parents, all their children,
it is inheritable, and the degree to which each person needed treatment for
their personal ADHD symptoms tends to vary a lot. ADHD isn't a binary
condition, you can have ADHD tendencies, mild ADHD, severe ADHD, etc.

The frustration felt by those suffering with the worst symptoms when people
fail to appreciate their condition is hard to fix. While Autism has been the
subject of the decade thanks to a particularly disgusting pustule of a human
being publishing a particular fraudulent paper in a medical journal, ADHD is
quietly toyed with now and then. Most improvements to treatment for ADHD have
been accidental and is further hampered by the usual concerns regarding
psychoactive pharmacology, what is a legal treatment in one jurisdiction is an
illicit narcotic in others.

We're all human, I like lots of other people, have ADHD. Consequently I'm
going to post this as written rather than try to edit away the lack of a clear
direction or good summation. I've learned to cut my losses on tangential
trains of thought, this one has already lead to a rather mushy breakfast :-/

------
khorwitz
I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child. That is partially why I created this
webapp: [http://focusr.co/](http://focusr.co/). It helps you focus on one
thing at a time, which can be hard enough for people even w/o this diagnosis.

------
nickysielicki
You should all watch this video, it will completely change how you see ADHD...
It's long, and it's worth it.[0]

[0]: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCAGc-
rkIfo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCAGc-rkIfo)

~~~
jotm
Really, a 3 hour long video?

Can I get a summary, in text?

Thanks! :-)

~~~
joshuak
This 13 min video [1] also by Dr Russell Barkley is something of a summery,
but the longer one is absolutely worth watching.

1: [https://youtu.be/_tpB-B8BXk0](https://youtu.be/_tpB-B8BXk0)

