
The secrets of body language - neiljohnson
http://blog.bufferapp.com/improve-my-body-language-secrets
======
a_p
Body language experts are trained to look for _groups_ of behaviors. Often,
certain behaviors such as crossed arms could just mean the subject is cold. It
is also hard to judge someone's body language after you have just met them; it
is much better to compare their behavior to the "baseline" of their normal
behavior. That is because certain behaviors are not innate but learned
unconsciously from parents, relatives, close friends, and is also dependent
upon regional culture. If you want to learn about body language, you should
spend a lot of time practicing watching several different people and finding
groups of behaviors that signal their respective moods before you start to
start to make inferences with confidence. It is helpful to watch people from
different cultures or different classes so that you may see how much variation
there is. Otherwise, decisions made with little knowledge and practice is
actually harmful because your inferences will likely be wrong. "You should
never cross your arms again" may be good advice, but only because you can then
guard yourself from people that overestimate their powers of observation.

~~~
felideon
Good point. For example, I tend to lean forward (with forearms on the table)
out of respect. It shows I'm interested but I can see how it could be
misconstrued as a nervousness, or 'low-power'.

~~~
JabavuAdams
But isn't giving respect low-power? If you're the alpha, others give _you_
respect, and you do as you please. I'm exaggerating, obviously, but respect is
a form of deference. Deference is low-power.

~~~
felideon
I know what you mean, but given the context of a job interview, by
definition[1] you are in a lower power position.

I agree with sibling comments, though, that respectfulness is not mutually
exclusive with _alpha_ -ness. And if in general you are a respectful person, a
high-power posture will probably not impact their opinion of your
respectfulness too much.

[1] Assuming you really want the job and unless you are a hot shot who is
gracing them with your willingness to work for them.

~~~
nostrademons
I've gone into every job interview I've had with the attitude that I'm a hot
shot who is gracing my employer with my willingness to work for them[1]. I've
gotten offers at about 50% of them, which means that I've turned down more
companies than have turned down me.

Confidence really does work. If you sincerely believe in your abilities, it's
much easier to convince others to believe in them.

[1] This is not mutually exclusive with respect or humility. It's quite
possible to believe you have a lot to offer your employer while also believing
they have a lot to offer you, and then the job interview process is just a
matter of negotiating the right fit.

~~~
svachalek
Interesting. Whenever I see aggressive confidence in an interviewee, I
immediately think Dunning-Kruger because statistically it's by far the most
likely cause. Either way it's down to empirical evidence though.

Anyway, as far as anecdotal evidence goes, I tend to intentionally give off a
pretty neutral vibe and rarely worry about flunking an interview. (I chalk it
up to mad skillz rather than body language though.)

~~~
dualboot
One could also argue that your willingness to quickly diagnose an individual
coping with a traditionally high-anxiety situation (interviewing) with trendy
cognitive bias issues calls your ability to recognize your own weaknesses into
question.

------
zeteo
This kind of article doesn't address the issue known as Chesterton's fence
[1]. If so-called "low power" poses are so bad for you, why have they survived
evolution? Why do we have such strong ingrained impulses to assume them in the
first place? "Experts" need to give a very, very convincing answer to this
question before urging us to abandon such poses.

Anecdotally, I've often been with groups of engineers where _everyone_ was
assuming "low power" poses. The discussion seemed to flow more constructively
in such circumstances; it was as though everyone admitted that they didn't
know the right answers. They felt free to submit very rough ideas because
everybody else was just as ignorant and not in a position to shoot them down.
Enter a "confident" program manager, however, and the group quickly devolved
into silence and/or banalities; everyone felt reluctant to express opinions
that they didn't feel completely certain about.

[1] [http://epicureandealmaker.blogspot.com/2012/03/chesterton-
fe...](http://epicureandealmaker.blogspot.com/2012/03/chesterton-fence.html)

~~~
Mz
I am female. My behavior is frequently interpreted by other people as
extremely aggressive, attention mongering and so on. (Edit: I suspect a lot of
it would be interpreted differently if I were male and it would be less of an
issue.) It has gotten me loads of extremely negative attention. I have spent
many years trying to learn to fly under the radar and deflect attention. This
problem began very early in life with being an excessively cute, sunshiny
child and continued with being viewed as a beautiful young woman (which came
with perks like being raped and told it was my fault for being too beautiful
to resist).

There are serious downsides to getting attention. Faking confidence when you
do not have it and also do not have the ability that it implies can bring real
trouble. I still want to figure out how to get traffic for my websites because
I think that is my best hope for financial success but I have put a great deal
of effort into learning to deflect attention away from me personally. I hope
that if my work ever does garner good attention those lessons will stand me in
good stead. Lots of celebrities have been seriously burned at some point and
had trouble understanding why they were no longer darlings of the public eye.
I got to go through that on a much smaller scale. My hope is that it will pay
dividends some day when it matters more.

~~~
omegant
" Lots of celebrities have been seriously burned at some point and had trouble
understanding why they were no longer darlings of the public eye. I got to go
through that on a much smaller scale" After all it seems that you are afraid
of loosing attention. Attention flood may be as undesirable as a drought. But
if you have an unusual capability it would be unwise to not use it to your
advantage, that is, unless you have money enough to pay for marketing and
promotion while you stay away from the public eye.

~~~
Mz
I am not afraid of losing attention. I have a healthy respect for the very
real danger that comes from negative attention. There is nothing neurotic
about that. I have a medical condition which makes a normal job a big problem
for me. My best bet for success is via the internet. Traffic is necessary to
make money. That is a simple objective reality having nothing to do with my
feelings, personal baggage, yadda.

------
blindhippo
The fun part is watching people actually try to control their body language in
reality. You can try, but if you aren't feeling what that "power pose" is
broadcasting, you'll just look like an idiot to anyone even remotely paying
attention.

You aren't going to gain leadership by leaning back and spread eagling in a
business meeting. You're going to gain it by being an actual leader and doing
stuff that adds value to an organization.

~~~
nandemo
> The fun part is watching people actually try to control their body language
> in reality. You can try, but if you aren't feeling what that "power pose" is
> broadcasting, you'll just look like an idiot to anyone even remotely paying
> attention.

The article describes a scientific (?) experiment that goes counter that
intuition.

------
civilian
Here's the TED talk from the researcher herself:
[http://www.ted.com/talks/amy_cuddy_your_body_language_shapes...](http://www.ted.com/talks/amy_cuddy_your_body_language_shapes_who_you_are.html)

~~~
Aurel1us
Came here to post that link. One of the best TED talks ever!

~~~
civilian
Well I beat you to it :-P is your username inspired by Marcus Aurelius? (I'm
almost done with Meditations and it's great.)

~~~
Aurel1us
Right! Love the presence of emperors' names.

------
ForrestN
Two things I am wondering:

First, what does it mean that these poses, these concepts ("power" as the
desirable mode of relating to your coworkers for example) and even the key
hormone we are meant to incite are so gendered? The poses are more essentially
masculine than they are powerful. Have you ever seen a woman naturally with in
the arm-around-the-chair pose, hips slunk forward and chest back? It would
look quite unusual I think. As an employer, I'm not sure I want to select for
testosterone (and I don't think I have so far). But maybe there is more to it.

Second, does it matter that attention is zero-sum? I would suggest that to ve
convincing the author doesn't need to merely argue that body language
manipulation is helpful, but that it is more helpful than, say, listening
carefully, or preparing that much more for an interview, or even studying and
thinking about human psychology more directly. You can only keep track of so
many dimensions at once, and I'm not sold on the idea that I would benefit
from privileging this dimension. Maybe I would, but that case hasn't been made
for me yet.

~~~
egypturnash
I took burlesque dance lessons for a while. There was some time spent
discussing posture and its use; I learnt some ways of standing that would make
me look confident and sexy. There were some strong similarities to these
"power poses" - but trust me, they were very, very feminine.

~~~
newman314
Examples?

~~~
newman314
What's with the downvote? A claim was made and I'm honestly curious what these
"poses" are.

------
solistice
As a great practical guide to reading and applying body language, I'd
recommend "What everybody is saying" by Dave Navarro. Guy used to do body
language analysis for the FBI afaik, and then wrote a book about it.

[http://www.amazon.com/What-Every-BODY-Saying-Speed-
Reading/d...](http://www.amazon.com/What-Every-BODY-Saying-Speed-
Reading/dp/0061438294)

Concerning the body language tips the article recomends, I think everyone
except arms crossed behind head is covered for in the book. Arm akimbo,
crossed legs, etc.

As a personal tip, I'd give the thumbs up. No, like actually stretch your
thumbs out when you walk around or talk to people, and leave them out of your
pockets. It's ok to put the rest of the hand in, but the thumbs stay out.

Ahh, and if you're arguing, even if you want to, don't start undressing
yourself, no matter how angry you are. 2 people arguing and taking jackets and
shirts off usually means business you don't want to be part of neccesairily.

~~~
InvisibleCities
by Dave Navarro

I think you mean Joe Navarro, unless the guitarist from Jane's Addiction and
RHCP has led a far richer life than I previously imagined.

~~~
solistice
I always get his name wrong, sorry for that. Yes, Joe Navarro.

------
kyllo
This is the actual definition of "cargo cult" behavior.

It's getting cause and effect backwards because you don't understand their
relationship, and trying to imitate the effect in the futile hope that it will
cause the cause.

People who sit all relaxed like that do so because they have power. They don't
have power because they sit like that, and sitting like that will not
magically confer power to you.

~~~
egypturnash
Here's some anecdata.

I took burlesque dance classes for a while. One of the things taught in this
class was how to look confident, because projecting confidence is also pretty
damn sexy.

Curiously enough, as I started learning these postures and using them, I found
myself becoming a lot more confident. This was not something anyone told me to
expect; it just sort of happened. It's spread out over a lot of how I move and
behave, even when I'm not explicitly turning it on.

You are not a mind riding on top of a body. You are your body. And your body
has a lot of weird feedback mechanisms that can be exploited.

~~~
thatthatis
Two weird feedback exploits I like:

1) smiling can lead to feeling happy 2) deep slow breathing can lead to
feeling calm

------
jpdoctor
This is great stuff as long as you like people who breath their own exhaust.

As soon as you encounter someone who is not speaking the same language, there
will be great confusion. Usually, this means anyone from outside of
MBA/Marketing/ or other art-of-BS type disciplines.

~~~
jff
The whole thesis of the article is that body language is automatic and
ingrained, even in people born blind.

------
reeses
Impro: Improvisation and the Theatre ([http://www.amazon.com/Impro-
Improvisation-Theatre-Keith-John...](http://www.amazon.com/Impro-
Improvisation-Theatre-Keith-Johnstone/dp/0878301178)) has a great section on
communicating status through body language and movement.

It describes a number of exercises where one actor takes the role of a
superior and the other an inferior. The techniques are quite effective for the
intended audience.

I would quote from it but I had a paper copy and it's really only worth
running through once a decade for a non-actor interesting in the physical
aspect of acting.

------
visionpol
I know that body language and customs are different, but I wanted to point out
that in some Asian cultures, arm-crossing is done as a sign of respect,
especially towards elders. It's a source of confusion and amusement for older
people when the Western-integrated young people get angry.

That said, one should keep an eye out for more than just nonverbal cues, as
telling as they may be.

~~~
knome
It would make sense that a "powerless" gesture taken in deference to another
is seen as a sign of respect.

------
doki_pen
I hate it when people put their feet up on tables, especially near my person.
If you did that around me I'd just think you were an asshole.

~~~
pfarrell
Perhaps you are unconsciously responding to the "power move"? I had a boss who
would routinely show up late to sales calls _we_ were making. We were the
salesmen; we'd show up 10 minutes late. He said it was classic power strategy.
Make them think they're waiting on you. I was pissed, back then. Today, I'm
less incredulous and wonder if he was on to something.

~~~
Evbn
It is a classic gimmick that salespeople do to convince themselves that they
have a special skill beyond lying through their teeth at a customer.

~~~
newman314
Nah, he was likely just an asshole.

------
callmeed
I feel like this is one of those instances where, once everyone knows about
it, everyone does it, and everyone knows why you're doing it. Therefore, it
eventually becomes ineffective (perhaps there is a name for this phenomenon).
If I keep seeing books/blog posts/news segments on "power poses" then every
interviewee starts putting their feet on my table, surely I'll notice. It's
the body language version of a buzzword.

Also Zed Shaw had an interesting take on putting your feet on the table, but
the link appears to be dead now. See:
<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1235791>

~~~
Mithrandir
Wayback Machine has the article:
[http://web.archive.org/web/20101222093524/http://oppugn.us/p...](http://web.archive.org/web/20101222093524/http://oppugn.us/posts/1270132724.html)

------
jjuliano
I believe that we humans can also detect fake and unnatural body language.

What I don't like about is when people try to be impressive and poses a fake
and unnatural body language to convey a certain scenario or meaning.

Body language is all about the meaning of the messages they convey and the
GENUINE emotion they are experiencing.

It should not be faked, for the purpose of conveying a meaning or a make
believe scenario.

It should begin with the message itself, it should begin with the actual
emotion itself.

\- Focus first on having a meaningful means of being confident, before you
actually become, convey and exudes great confidence.

\- Focus first on having a meaningful message, before actually forcing people
that you have a meaningful and convincing message.

Winners have a genuine emotion for winning, so they actually have a real
winning body language. It is not fake, and it is very convincing, and people
will be drawn by the same emotions the winner is experiencing via the winner's
genuine body language.

I have encountered several people doing unnatural body language, they want
people to believe that they are confident speakers but their message is so
unconvincing, it does not gel and it is really annoying and is painful to
watch.

~~~
altrego99
All I can say is don't fake it. If you want to do a body language, feel it
from within - instead of simply rearranging your arms and legs.

~~~
marcosdumay
One of the pieces of research he cites (the one I've actualy read :) concludes
that faking it will make it easier for you to feel it from whithin.

------
cracell
This article doesn't address the "why you should never cross your arms again"
that is in it's title at all.

------
e12e
A couple of points:

1) As far as interviews are concerned (or any dialogue) mirroring might get
you further than power -- eg: when your interviewer crosses his/her arms, you
might gain an advantage doing the same - whatever the "power poses" theory
says. I suppose it is like language: Short, conscience sentences might be
"powerful" or "commanding" -- but that alone doesn't make for _effective_
prose in all cases. No communication without context.

2) Sitting in a room for two minutes, relaxing, convinced that you're doing a
"power poise" -- might elevate your hormone levels. I'm sure screaming a
battle cry, or doing a haka would work to. Not sure if it is just the poise in
itself that helps with the levels. Would be interesting to do a reverse test:
tell people that a "low power" position is actually a "power position" and
vice versa -- and redo the experiment. I highly doubt we've got strong
evolutionary ties to sitting with our feet up on a swivel chair.

3) The point about blind athletes -- so you imply blind people don't have
socialized behaviour? Thankfully you don't have to live in an isolation
chamber just because you're blind.

[edit: formatting x2]

~~~
powrtoch
Re: #2, My understanding of the experiment is that they simply had people
assume poses, and then measured their hormone levels. If they really did tell
them up front whether the pose was intended to make them feel powerful, that
would certainly be an egregious mistake in the methodology, but that wasn't
the impression I had from hearing the TED talk.

Actually, I wonder if you could even pull of that version of the experiment
without the participants seeing through it ("No really, shrinking into your
chair and looking at the floor is a great display of power!").

~~~
e12e
I didn't really mean to imply that that's how the experiment was initially
performed -- or that there's no correlation between poses and hormone levels.

I was more wondering if the results could be replicated with different poses
(and a different context).

Then again, if people already "know" that the poses are (relatively) high or
low power (hence are able to "see through" false explanations in an
alternative study) -- perhaps the mental state is more important than the
actual pose.

------
molecule
I can't locate the reference, but I've read, and observed, that if you want to
verify that the person w/ whom you're conversing is paying attention to you,
cross your arms: if the other person crosses their arms also, then they're
paying attention to you.

~~~
Evbn
Only if they are trying to sleep with you and have reqd a PUA book.

~~~
angersock
Oh God, I can see it now, startup pickup artistry:

"Yeah, I negged that investor twice and then escalated kino, and then popped
the termsheet. You're a beginner--try a cold-open with a Paul Graham story and
look for indicators of interest."

Yuck.

------
malcolmmcc
I typically dance to music that makes me feel cool while walking to job
interviews. So far it has worked really well.

------
nbudden
Great article. If anyone's interested I've got a video course on how to
improve your body language. The course is 100% free and you can register at:
<http://gobodylanguage.com>

------
securetoken
Lots of gems in here: [https://www.inkling.com/read/dummies-body-language-
elizabeth...](https://www.inkling.com/read/dummies-body-language-elizabeth-
kuhnke-2nd/chapter-8/building-defensive-barriers)

------
Geee
Hmmm.. With poses you can broadcast your 'negotiation position', but I don't
think it's appropriate to try to look like you're on the winner's side if
you're not. Makes some sense in some situations like interviews though.

------
CatMtKing
I'm learning taijiquan: one of the key concepts is the alignment of the body
posture to allow energy to enter the meridians. Health and emotion are both
influenced by posture.

------
gingerlime
Nice writeup. Interesting to see quite a few of those from buffer covering
some interesting research into stuff that affects our lives.

there's little typo in 'Our nonverbals gove(r)n' though...

~~~
D9u
When I saw the word "than" used in place of "then," my estimation of the
author plummeted, even though I agree with most of the article.

~~~
echobase
A single typo may not be enough to justifiably discredit an author - next time
look for clusters of typos. :-)

------
everyone
The title of this is complete bullshit! Did the writer actually read the study
hes referencing? One of the conclusions is that crossed arms is meaningless!

~~~
Evbn
Which gets more clicks: spreading a rumor or refuting it?

Link bait is a classic "power pose".

------
JDGM
Something I find immensely troubling about these studies is that examples of
high status body language are frequently things that I personally find
extremely obnoxious or social-norm breakingly rude, to the point that I have
often called people out on it.

The feet on the table one, for example. To what extent is that signaling high-
status simply because it's a very rude thing to do? Is it implausible that a
study might come out one day arguing that picking one's nose or scratching
one's arse in front of someone is high-status body language for the reason
that it is disrespectful to the other party therefore _must_ signal a
confidence in the asymmetry of power?

I know it's not quite the same, but certainly as a teacher if my students
don't sit "properly" on their chairs then I'll make clear that is
unacceptable. The older they get, the better they should know, and the harsher
I'll be. I've even sent students out of the room for it.

In situations where my higher status isn't assumed, the "calling out",
however, does not have to be verbal. This picture in particular
[http://blog.bufferapp.com/wp-
content/uploads/2013/04/Screen-...](http://blog.bufferapp.com/wp-
content/uploads/2013/04/Screen-Shot-2013-04-17-at-4.50.09-PM.png) annoys me
just to look at it, and reminds me of formal occasions when someone has been
sitting like that and I have conspicuously adjusted my own position so I am
sitting straight-backed and upright. I can't remember a time when they haven't
broken the pose and adjusted their position likewise. Sometimes it might take
an uncomfortable moment of silence, but they _will_ break it. Am I adopting
higher-status body language than them and they are keeping up? Maybe, but I
don't think so - I believe sitting neatly and smartly in response to their
pose just makes them (an _adult_ ) feel rather silly and they adjust to
nullify that feeling. I mean, if you were being interviewed for a job by
someone sitting in one of these supposedly "high-status" but actually pretty
damn rude positions, you wouldn't think the interview had even _begun_ yet,
would you?

Having read other replies in this thread, perhaps I'm wrong, and this means in
monkey times (technical term) I'd be the male who beat up the other male for
signaling challenging body language - and I doubt I would have lasted long
given repeat trials. However, I don't think of it like that. It is simply a
matter of respect and etiquette. _I'm_ not the one lying back on my chair or
exposing my crotch. "Sit properly!"

My experience of social-norms is informed by growing up in middle class
England and spending a long time living in Japan. I accept that in both
cultures signaling deep understanding of what is polite is the higher-level
currency of status. In other parts of the world, and for lower social strata,
I appreciate it can be very different.

Additionally, in the picture I linked, the fact that the first guy is exposing
his feet is probably actually more egregious to my sensibilities than his
pose. If he were wearing a suit and smart shoes I think I would respect him
more and consider the pose acceptable, I suppose in some way "earned". As it
stands, there's just something very - and I realise I may be about to lose
anyone on my side up to this point - "punchable" about his face...

A final point is that while I find myself in many situations where these
displays are considered vulgar, to the point that they counter-signal by
betraying a lack of etiquette-knowledge, they do seem to play an important
role in the "game" of socialising. I instinctively _feel_ like a "douche"
laying my arm across an empty chair next to me or positioning my legs in a way
that suggests what is between them is enormous, yet I'll do it anyway when the
situation is right and I'll justify it the same way I would "show off" dancing
or playing an instrument. But not at work:
<http://youtu.be/sEtQj9wuqhs?t=42s>.

~~~
derefr
> Am I adopting higher-status body language than them and they are keeping up?

You're playing a secondary game, countersignalling by conspicuously assuming a
lower-status pose. You're both aware that you could instead assume their pose
and play chicken with them about who will submit first. By "choosing the high
road," you're saying that you've noticed the status game in play, and that now
their implicit status move has become an explicit status move. And humans have
strong norms about the group disapproving of _explicit_ dominance. (See:
democracy.) So when the person displaying the dominant behavior realizes
they've been "found out", they stop.

Also,

> The feet on the table one, for example. To what extent is that signaling
> high-status simply because it's a very rude thing to do?

To answer this, consider the converse: to what extent could the fact that it's
a rude thing to do be explained by anything _other than_ it being a show of
dominance?

In the case of picking one's nose, it can be considered rude because it is a
private grooming behavior considered to be not especially hygenic by modern
standards. It exposes bits of one's internal "grossness" to others. It would
be uncouth even without dominance circuitry.

In the case of putting one's feet up on a table, though, I don't much see what
could be wrong with it _other_ than that it's a show of dominance. Perhaps we
might be slightly wired to predict that feet are _smelly_ or _covered in dirt_
, but in the modern white-collar work environment this isn't the case--so it
_shouldn't_ be rude. And yet it is. So it's a dominance behavior.

(And in the case of scratching one's arse, I'm not quite sure--that doesn't
seem dominant to me, but nor does it seem rude. It just seems like an
artificial restriction created by some Tough environments[1] to stratify
people by "those who can ignore all their bodily urges and pretend they don't
exist for longest." This is called _etiquette_ , and is a whole different kind
of mating-fitness-signalling--more like birdsong than apes beating one-another
up.)

[1] <http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/02/20/1410/>

~~~
JDGM
Good reply.

The feet on the table did occur to me as one which I could have the wrong way
around and while only "slightly wired to predict that feet are smelly or
covered in dirt" may be true (seems unintuitive to me though), I think the
perceived discrepancy is cultural as much as anything. I've noticed the
ickyness of putting feet on tables is almost universally invisible to
Americans, while in Japan it would seem completely unacceptable along with a
whole host of other related customs, for example, the taking off of shoes and
the special slippers to wear when you use the bathroom. Japanese ask me
extensively about UK customs regarding shoes and feet, it's evidently
considered a hygiene issue, much like their showering before bathing. In the
UK the foot thing is probably a bit of both, varying from person to person,
family to family. I was brought up such that I wouldn't ever consider putting
my feet up on a table, even when completely alone in my own house. Our trains
have signs telling you not to rest your feet on seats, I wonder if US trains
do. What you say actually now _reduces_ the offense that I would take if an
American put their feet up in front of me. I would think "well for them this
isn't considered gross, just a sign of relaxation that at worst is dominance
behaviour" and I'd attempt to force myself not to be disgusted by it.

~~~
derefr
One other thing might be that outhouses were an American innovation[1],
imported to other parts of the world later; and thus, of all rural-living
subcultures (which are the usual source for a culture's hygenic
mores/superstitions, being the most affected by them), rural Americans have
had the longest to adapt to not worrying about getting shite on their feet. :)

[1] [http://www.radiolab.org/2009/sep/07/sculptors-of-
monumental-...](http://www.radiolab.org/2009/sep/07/sculptors-of-monumental-
narrative/)

------
hbi99
How can anyone wearing flipflops strike a power-pose? LOL

------
pasquinelli
if you actually have power, you can sit however you like, amirightoramiright?

