
Some tech startups in Germany - carlchenet
http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-best-tech-startups-in-germany-2015-5
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iagooar
I always ask myself when does a startup stop being called like that and become
a company or enteprise. Some of the "startups" on this list are clearly pretty
grown up and calling them like that seems a bit odd to me.

This, or they keep calling themselves startups because it's cool and you can
pay your employees a lot less.

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jacquesm
A good rule is that it is a start-up as long as everybody knows everybody else
by name and is allowed to talk to the CEO directly.

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wongarsu
I worked at a small technology company where that's still true and the company
is two decades old by now (very successful in a very small market). There are
probably small watch-makers that are over a century old and still a start-up
by this measure.

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jacquesm
Apologies, I was assuming recent entry on the corporate scene and a goal of
growth but if you feel that small watchmakers over a century old are 'in
scope' then I should have probably been more clear.

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wongarsu
The problem with that is that in Europe "entry on the corporate scene" is not
as much a thing as it is in the US. Most companies here are comfortable
staying small or growing slowly, while American companies seem to generally
seek out drastic growth. It's a culture difference that makes classifying
things as startup or not startup more difficult.

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panamafrank
Ok so Research Gate employ their moderators on short term contracts (<6
months) at minimum wage (€8.50/h) so they don't have to give them much in the
way of workers rights and the managers of said mods are technically interns.

~~~
smil
All non-CS entry-level jobs at startups that I've seen in Berlin are
"internships" and pay unliveable wages, if at all.

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zerr
I have an impression that one of the main selling points for Berlin
particularly is the cheap labour - experienced engineers salaries are within
50-60K EUR range...

Some time ago, Berlin had a reputation as a cheap place to live, and "poor but
sexy". I think this is no longer the case.

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s3nnyy
I can only agree; if you optimize for money, Berlin does not pay. As a junior
developer with a master in CS from a top European school, the offers I got
from Berlin were around laughable 40k Euro for a web-dev gig.

40.000 Euro gross amounts to 2000 Euro per month in net-salary. My living
costs in Berlin would be around 800 Euro.

I chose to go to Zurich instead. Here, I am making 92.000 CHF also as a junior
web-dev. Due to the low taxes, my net-salary is 6.500 CHF and I live on 1300
CHF all-in.

Zurich is the only place in Europe where salaries are comparable to NYC or the
Bay-Area. If you are interested in moving here to work in IT, shoot me a mail.
Contact details can be found in my HN profile. Alternatively, check out my
medium-story: "Eight reasons why I moved to Switzerland"
([http://goo.gl/EIX4UX](http://goo.gl/EIX4UX)).

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crdb
I second this anecdotal evidence. It's a very tight real estate market but
somehow, cheap compared to salaries, with high quality options and a high
quality of life. Thanks to EasyJet, Swiss (the airline), and the always great
Swiss public transport, you're also next to a budget hub (ZRH) allowing you
easy access to the rest of Europe.

I moved cos my next job took me to Geneva (which is nowhere near as nice) but
remember the city fondly. Switzerland is generally a wonderful country to live
in and work, if you can cope with not being in a culture hub (which is the
only real drawback, relatively easily mitigated by weekends elsewhere).

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s3nnyy
The events that are important to me are about technology, UX, design, business
and entrepreneurship. There are plenty events happening covering these topics.
Usually, I am attending two to four meetups per week.

Also, people tend to forget that Zurich has 320.000 inhabitants and one should
account for this when comparing it to mega-cities like Berlin, which is
literally ten times bigger.

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throwawayaway
[http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-best-tech-startups-in-
germ...](http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-best-tech-startups-in-
germany-2015-5?op=1)

link for article as one page

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atroyn
Clue are doing really great work in grass roots women's health. ResearchGate
often also often flies under the radar but is really changing the way science
gets done. Wooga has a pretty great culture with a lot of ownership and
independence.

Berlin is a great place to live, so if you've thought about making the move
I'd seriously consider applying at any of these companies.

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k__
Crytek a startup?

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wink
According to Wikipedia[0] it sounded like the current Crytek is not any longer
the same company as it used to be.

[0]:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crytek#Restructuring](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crytek#Restructuring)

~~~
k__
Sad to read.

Crytek seemed to be the only international relevant game company from Germany.

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wink
For PC Games. (Or does Crysis also run on consoles?)

There are quite a few browser game companies though ;)

And don't forget about our heroes of old, Blue Byte, Ascaron and surely a few
more.

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k__
As you say: "of old"

Seems like there is not much game-dev left in Germany :\

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gumby
OK they are startups, but most don't seem to be _technology_ startups.

I liked living in Berlin but this is excessive boosterism.

