

How North Koreans See Themselves and Why It Matters - jaybol
http://www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2010/04/immersion-in-propaganda-racebased-nationalism-and-the-unfigureoutable-vortex-of-juche-thought-colin-.html

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forinti
There are 24 million North Koreans and they earn per capita about 6% of what
the 38 million South Koreans earn. In 1990 there were about 16 million East
Germans and 63 million West Germans who earned only about twice as much.
Twenty years on, East Germany is still behind.

Given the economic and ideological differences, I think the Koreans are more
likely to drift apart than to ever become one country again.

~~~
hga
One should also note the physical and mental effects of pervasive
malnutrition.

I agree; I don't know about the "drift apart", but reunification is the last
thing a bunch of South Koreans want. The above problems will take
_generations_ to correct.

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drinian
I saw the Mass Games in Pyongyang last year. This interview is spot-on that
the North Korean ideology is tightly tied to race. Hitler would have loved to
have the ability to put on such a show, and it was so beautifully done that by
the end _I_ was proud to be North Korean.

Cultural pride can be weaponized.

~~~
elblanco
Do tell more of this story!

~~~
drinian
I've mentioned bits and pieces in relevant stories here before, but haven't
put a coherent account of my five days in the DPRK anywhere online. Paul Karl
Lukacs' somewhat colorful account was what inspired me to go, and starts here:
<http://knifetricks.blogspot.com/2007/05/dprk-q.html>

Tourism is opening up a bit this year; you can now take a beach vacation in
the DPRK, via Koryo Tours!

------
xenthral
Christopher Hitchen's review of the book and YC discussion on it:

<http://www.slate.com/id/2243112/pagenum/all/>

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1094011>

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djcjr
When I saw the you can "read books" to see examples that "In other worlds,
North Korea's depiction of itself is strikingly close to, say, the American
right wing's depiction of North Korea as a rogue state", I was curious which
books those are.

By analogy, this is like writing up an essay "How 'Bob' sees himself, and why
it matters", and concluding from your research that that poor sap Bob really
does see himself as our US right-wingers do, and of course Bob is not around
to confirm or deny the what is being claimed about how he thinks.

Opportunity for wary skepticism, yes?

~~~
teaspoon
I gather from the interview that Myers doesn't qualify for a North Korean
library card, so the books he's referring to are probably available in the
North Korean Information Center in Seoul, the Natation Archives in DC, or the
Library of Congress. I don't find it suspicious that he's not dropping
specific ISBNs in an _interview_ , and substituting "Bob" for "North Korea"
doesn't illuminate any opportunity for skepticism that I can see.

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zppx
Off-topic, I have the impression that the same applies to US policy on Iran,
the majority of people appears to not understand the Iranian revolution, the
Iranian regime that followed, the divergence about Iran in the Shi'a world and
even what Iranians do think about their country.

~~~
hga
Not really relevant, I'd say.

To get a useful analogy, assume the Confederates had won the "War Between the
States" and following that this sort of split and lack of understanding
developed. Even then, it's hard to imagine the Confederacy e.g. taking such a
harsh line toward contacts of any sorts with the Union.

That sort of next door, you were once part of us thing is very far removed
from events on the other side of the globe in country with a very different
(and ancient!) culture, religion, etc. And one where visiting during a lot of
these events could result in death or something quite unpleasant (they're
still holding those hikers who (maybe?) strayed across the border, right?).

Heck, the current regime in Iran is more outlaw than the DPRK, in terms of
diplomatic protocols (our embassy) and the like, right?

~~~
zppx
As I said it is completely off-topic.

I'm not trying to justify the Iranian regime, my father have dual
Brazilian/Israeli citizenship and I do have the majority of my relatives
living in Israel right now, I do not have any sympathy for Iran, but I still
think we ignore some interesting facts (and useful if we are to understand the
world around us) just because of animosities between countries or because
governments needs to release propaganda against its enemies, this was for me
the essence of this interview about North Korea.

And I do agree with you about Iran at large, but there are far more problems
with Iranian foreign policy, specially in relations with its neighboring
countries.

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zoba
Is a minder just the person who watches over you when you visit North Korea?

~~~
sorbus
Like a tour guide, only with a duty to constant watch visitors and keep them
away from anything deemed unsuitable, including unsupervised talks with normal
citizens.

(Disclaimer: I haven't been to North Korea, this is just the definition I've
gotten from what I've read about people who have. Take it with a grain of
salt.)

~~~
jerf
Yes. Totalitarian regimes have been using those for a long time. In the
anthology "Expanded Universe", Heinlein has an extended description of his
trip to the USSR with his wife who could speak Russian, which they for some
mysterious reason neglected to tell the Russians.

North Korea may not be structurally communist, but this article really
reminded me of Heinlein's story. There's definitely an established pattern of
how a totalitarian regime deceives its visitors.

(Which it desires despite the danger, as it wants the visitors to take back
good propaganda to their host country. I suspect it's getting harder as the
wealth gap grows larger every year. Even putting on a "decent face" is getting
hard/expensive when you're from a country where the Wal-Mart, at or near the
bottom of the wealth scale, is clean, brightly-lit, and full-to-overflowing of
products for sale.)

