
Ask HN: How do you do home security? - gshrikant
I recently moved to a new town and am living alone. The neighborhood is decent and my building has security too. However, it just seems like good sense to me to implement an extra layer of home security apart from the usual (locked doors).<p>I was looking for ideas and was wondering how people on this forum go about securing their houses?
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Mandatum
I live in South Africa in a gated community with 24/7 guard patrols and 12 ft
high barbed wire fences.

My own house also has blade-topped fences, I have an electronic gate which
requires a 6-pin entry pad and a thumbprint. I have 3 dogs, double-plated
steel doors and retractable window bars.

Some fucker broke in through the ceiling last week while I was asleep and
stole my iPhone and wallet.

The reason we do this in South Africa is because of safety. Home invasions,
car jacking, mugging, kidnapping are everyday occurrences here. I know of 3
people who have been killed during one of these engagements and everyone I
know knows someone who has died.

If you worry about your kids wandering the streets in America, Canada, New
Zealand.. Come to Africa and get some context.

Possessions are meaningless, your health and your friends are what counts.
That's something some people learn the hard way in this country.

~~~
mibbitirc
Not to be rude, but why do you chose to live there? If you value your health
and friends, why live in a war zone.

~~~
Mandatum
If it was as simple as that notion sounds, I wouldn't be here. And believe me
I know many of people who have decided to start families in other countries.

I hate my government, the corruption, violence, bigotry.. But this is my home.
I love the people, the culture, the food, my friends and family.

I've traveled and I've lived in other areas in the world. But this place is my
home.

People wonder why anyone would want to live in the Middle East; Iraq,
Afghanistan, the Gaza Strip? Because this is my land, these are my people, my
tribe.

I will stay, and I will fight and protest for a better life for everyone in
this country.

Sorry I feel this is too offtopic for HN, but I couldn't help but reply.

~~~
omegaham
Are things getting better? I can definitely understand this mindset, and I
feel like once momentum starts building, people get behind it and start
believing in a better tomorrow.

I'd feel a lot more hopeless if things were stagnating or getting worse. I
can't imagine being a Syrian right now, for example.

~~~
zamalek
> Are things getting better?

That's not really what it's about for us. South Africans have become experts
at making the most out of a bad situation so things are always "good" in a way
that's hard to describe out of context.

When you ask if South Africa is improving you have to qualify that with: which
class? Anything that the government controls is going backwards. The middle
and upper classes, however, have in a way created their own functioning
infrastructure.

* The police force is complete ineffective. Solution: build a fortress and hire private security.

* Continuous controlled blackouts because the power infrastructure is inadequate. Solution: buy a generator.

* Hijackings, muggings. Solution: lojack all cars (car insurance now _requires_ it) and don't walk anywhere.

As I said, we make it good.

~~~
buyx
The South African government has improved the lot of the poor in some ways-
child support grants form the basis of a welfare system that protects people
from utter destitution. Sadly, as you point out, the public healthcare and
education systems are dismal, and the failure of the education system means
that human capital is being wasted.

~~~
random778
Some things they do means well, but doesn't deliver as much as you would
think. Having a single parent with no job, no education and no support means
that frequently that money goes into buying alcohol. If you think the majority
of the poorest have been uplifted significantly, you haven't been in the
streets in really poor areas.

------
victorstanciu
I don't. I own nothing I would cry over if I lost it. My wife doesn't own
expensive jewelry, all our money is in the bank, and all my work is backed up
to external servers, so losing the laptops would only cause me some delay. We
are not attached to any object that we own, and we only lock the door for our
own protection. If someone wants to burglarize my home, all I ask is that they
wait until we're not home to do it.

~~~
philtar
That's not a healthy attitude. You don't have to be attached to an object to
be averse to losing something of monetary value. It's like you're trying to be
weird on purpose.

~~~
padelt
Just another opinion: I find that attitude very healthy. As a society, you can
have a general policy of not locking doors. Will work basically the same as a
society with generally locked doors. Burglars will find a way in - this way or
the other. There will be hotspots of crime in both cases. The overall rate
will not differ that much.

------
davidw
Here's how it's done in Italy:

* Big, heavy solid doors. These things are bulletproof. It's a bit ridiculous, because I think smashing down the front door is probably not the most common burglary technique, but still, here you won't find any of those doors with the doorknob right next to a big plate of glass.

* Serious shutters. They're called 'rolling shutters' in English, and standard on houses here. [http://www.topsystem.biz/wp-content/gallery/tapparelle/pvc4....](http://www.topsystem.biz/wp-content/gallery/tapparelle/pvc4.jpg) \- these are not the wimpy 'venetian' blinds in the US, but sturdy things that will keep out the sun in the summer, cold in the winter, and when locked at the bottom, anyone but the most determined intruder, who would still likely need some good tools and time to boot. I wrote this a few years back: [http://blog.therealitaly.com/2007/08/09/window-technology/](http://blog.therealitaly.com/2007/08/09/window-technology/)

~~~
huhtenberg
Here's how it's done in Switzerland:

You don't do anything and just file an insurance claim. In fact, if you got a
break-in and call the police, they come, but only to issue a report for your
insurance company.

------
omegaham
We have two dogs. By far the best deterrent that you can get. The alarm goes
off when someone _approaches_ the house, let alone tries to open anything. You
can't sneak up on them. They're also furry and warm, which is a plus.

One thing to note is that burglars don't fixate on a house or apartment. They
are looking for the easiest, lowest-risk house. Dogs immediately upgrade your
house to "harder than the next house over."

I'm not worried at all about someone breaking into our house while I'm away.
They can have my shit. I'm much more concerned about someone trying to invade
while I'm home, because that's what gets people perforated. Dogs are an
immediate deterrent to that.

Other than that, we have a couple guns from when my girlfriend worked at a
prison and had psychos threatening her life on a daily basis. She keeps a
taser in her center console of her car, I keep a heavy tire iron in the door
of mine. That's about it.

~~~
pki
My friend had 3 dogs shot and killed, just so they would stop barking :(

------
Hogg
My home security setup:

\- Dogs. Obviously this won't work for everyone, as you may not like dogs or
be allowed to have them or able to afford them. Also not all dogs will be
effective alarms; one of mine starts growling if she hears a butterfly down
the street, while the other one would unlock the door for a burglar if she
could, just hoping he'd pet her.

\- Lighting on all points of entry. I have time-controlled lights on the doors
and motion-sensing floodlights on the detached garage. All are LED so they're
fairly efficient and long-lasting.

\- Simplisafe security system. It's self-installed, wireless, and no contract.
Depending on your subscription you can get monitoring only, or monitoring plus
a mobile and web app. I really got this more for the 24/7 smoke and carbon
monoxide alarm monitoring, but the entry and motion sensors are a nice
addition. (If you do have dogs, you might consider declining police dispatch
though.) And there are little stickers / signs to try to scare off burglars.

\- A large can of pepper spray (stream, not spray). I don't own a firearm (and
I'd really rather not use it in the house even if I did). I think someone
breaking into the house would most likely be a burglar and would rather flee
than get in a fight, so I think a non-lethal solution is good to have.

\- Cameras. I have a mix of brands of wireless cameras and iSpyConnect,
watching the entrances. This is more for me to check in on things remotely,
but the recording could be handy too.

\- Neighbors. I'm not super-close friends with mine, but I'm neighborly, and
we look out for each other.

\- Insurance. If you're renting, make sure you have renter's insurance. A
security system may get you a discount on your home or renter's insurance
also. And an automatic offsite backup system is a good idea, of course (I use
CrashPlan).

------
buyx
Internal and external burglar bars on all windows, and an outside perimeter
fence. High walls on side and back, topped by barbed wire. Security gates on
all doors. Burglar alarm linked to armed response, and outside perimeter
beams. This is fairly standard in South Africa for standalone homes in decent
areas. Much of this is to protect against home robberies (violent home
invasions).

Many people have internal gates separating sleeping areas from the rest of
their homes, as well as CCTV and electric fences. If you live in a gated
estate with security, you can afford to forgo some, but not all of these.

~~~
prawn
Wow, that's pretty extreme. Is it nerve wracking living in an environment
where that level of security feels necessary? I can imagine it would be
stress-raising unless you were used to it?

There'd be a low risk of minor burglary in my area, but the risk of anything
violent would be almost nil.

I lock the doors and cross my fingers.

~~~
buyx
You get used to the stress, and the ubiquitous security, and you get on with
your life. But you have to constantly be aware of new threats: a newish one
that has hit a few people I know is "car jamming" where remote locks on cars
are jammed and the contents are looted.

------
sgt
I have an alarm system with passive sensors on each side of the house. So when
I go to sleep, I activate the outside passive sensors.

There are also passive sensors inside the house so if I am not at home, I
activate everything using a remote control. The system is pet friendly so my
cat can move around freely.

I built a CCTV camera and installed it above the outside gate. It's more of a
DIY camera than anything else, but it looks pretty good. I used a halogen
light fixture to hold a Logitech web camera, and I've created my own adapter
to convert the USB output to an ethernet cable setup, and back again to USB
before it gets to my home server (which is in the garage). This was the
cheapest way to do a USB webcam over such a long distance (8-9 meters).

I'll write a blog article about the camera project if anyone's interested in
the details.

------
nabucodonosor
I used:

\- magnetic contact sensor: [http://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Sensor-Window-
Warning-Switch/...](http://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Sensor-Window-Warning-
Switch/dp/B0050N7SM0)

\- raspberry pi: [http://www.raspberrypi.org/](http://www.raspberrypi.org/)

Wired up all contact sensor and connect to gpio on pi. Use pi to detect
circuit break and send messages or phone calls via google voice.

------
clagio
I bought a piper ([http://getpiper.com](http://getpiper.com)), you can
integrate with some z-wave accessories to monitor the door, windows, turn
on/off lights or device.. Is nice, whenever you want, you can connect and see
whats happening in your house, see statistics (only for the last 48h) about
temperature, humidity, light, noises, etc Unfortunately is far from being
perfect, a basic feature like automatic activation of the alarm during the
days is not possible (and to me seems a quite basic feature for an alarm
system).. This, together with the fact that activating/disabling the alarm
takes too long, ends with me not using the alarm system at all, except for
long absence from home Having some public API to play with would be nice too..

~~~
therobot24
So do you just put the camera/piper-thing in one room? Or do you have a few?

------
matthewjames
You could easily install a $10 door alarm that chimes when it is opened. They
can be ordered online or picked up at stores like Radio Shack, etc.

------
Uberphallus
Not much. To get to my place you actually have to know how to get there, you
just can't randomly get to it. When inviting new friends over and even
providing a map with directions, I get "where the hell is your place" calls
most of the time.

Other than that, I have a Raspberry Pi with a camera running motion; it
records video when movement is detected and offloads to a remote server. I
have it in my room, pointing at the door, and I have a script that alerts me
with Pushover whenever:

* Movement is detected and my phone is not in range.

* Movement is detected and an unknown WiFi device is in range (it sniffs WiFi probes).

~~~
cb18
Where do you live? Woods? Mountains?

~~~
Uberphallus
It's an old residential area, next to a main road, but the only access is a
private path along which you have many other houses and their own security
cameras.

That path is a dead end, and the last section is around 50 m (~165 feet) long
and not even accessible to cars or wheelchairs; too narrow and with steps. The
gate to my place is the very dead end.

That's why people have a hard time finding my place. Now, I feel like talking
about security a bit more.

After the gate you have other 20 m (~65 feet) to the door, and most valuables
are upstairs.

Basically a burglar would have to take multiple trips, up and down inside and
outside stairs, to load up a car/van parked before the narrow end, with faces
and plates invariably captured by cameras. Or do the multiple trips for maybe
300 m (~1000 feet) each to a parking spot across the busy main road (there's
no space to park on my side of the road; you'd block it).

In case of break in while I'm out, after I get the notification on my phone
I'd call a neighbor to block the path with his car and wait for the police to
arrive and do the rest.

There are other possible break in spots, but they involve wall jumping, so
damage would be way more limited. Somebody could jump into my garden over the
2 m (~6.5 feet) wall from my neighbor's, but they have to break into the
(wealthier) neighbor's before.

The rest of the garden is surrounded by a concrete wall, 2 m (~6.5 feet) high
on my side, 3 m (~10 feet) on the other side, that separates my house from a
residence complex with its own security and all. But you can't really see this
wall; it's hidden by thick foliage on my side. Once I got my quad-copter
crashed into this residence and it took me 30 minutes worth of branch cutting
(saw and hatchet) just to reach the wall, and I tried to grab it for a while,
with a hook and hung from a tree, before even considering jumping that high,
getting hurt, and possibly be unable to jump back in again.

So a burglar would rather steal shit from any not as logistically messy
target.

TL;DR: my house can't be accessed by car and I'm surrounded with other houses
and apartment blocks that are not as much trouble to burglarize.

------
djloche
Can you describe what you are looking to add?

Security is a process, and it depends on the situation how far you want to go.
You can buy / build / rent a home security system & service. You can establish
good security practices like not allowing location services data (or your own
big mouth) to broadcast or otherwise tell the world where you are or when you
are or are not home, not placing valuable items in window view, keeping your
doors and windows locked, doing regular lock checks, switching your door
deadbolt lock so that former owners/renters/etc can't get in, etc.

------
ibz
Whenever I leave home I lock the door and hide the key somewhere. If I leave
for more than a day, I give the key to my neighbor. That can come in handy,
like once I forgot the passport at home, and the neighbor could get it and
send it to me. But I live in a small village where everybody knows everybody.
:) Also, I don't have anything expensive and that I would miss, except maybe
my laptop. I'm more worried of somebody stealing my axe if I forget it outside
than of somebody breaking in.

------
anant90
We use one dropcam pointed at the valuables in the house (the living room with
all the monitors and computers etc.) Dropcam offers a lot of sensible features
like camera schedules and location sensitive activity alerts that make the
experience of buying the $200 device worth it. There's also night vision and a
microphone + speaker. Needless to say, everything works seamlessly across
devices, and you can buy 7-day cloud storage for an additional $99 a year.

~~~
qq66
Keep in mind, the Dropcam only helps if you know the thief. We had a theft in
our old office and caught the thief on Dropcam. The police saw the video and
noted that they had seen the guy at other thefts as well. My obvious question:
"anything that you can do about it?" And unless ubiquitous CCTV with face
recognition is widely deployed, the answer is basically no.

~~~
anant90
I agree. But activity alerts are pretty good. You can set Dropcam up so that
if someone enters the area when you're not home or the camera loses network
connectivity, you get an alert - and if you do, you can alert the neighbors or
the cops.

------
__xtrimsky
I too have recently moved, I haven't yet purchased a security system but I
have been looking around, these are the things I was looking for:

\- No monthly fee

\- A loud alarm

\- Not necessarily calling the cops, I just want to be contacted, I can call
the cops myself if needed.

I have found only two systems I like:

\- The most expensive one: SmartThings, about 550$ for what I want, looks easy
to set up. The only mentioned inconvenience is the wiress range of the hub. I
have a pretty big house so I need to consider this.

\- Skylink SC-2200 security system on Amazon. This is much cheaper 187$. But
requires a landline (I don't have one). You can make it work using an "OBi100
VoIP" (also on amazon). The Obi100 can connect to google voice (free account
but only in the US), it has a landline phone port which allows you to make the
skylink system work. From what I have read you also need a cheap (8$) landline
phone to make test calls at first.

Now I prefer the SmartThings system because it's simpler, and also you can
control everything from an app on your phone. Skylink all it does is placing a
phone call to your phone when something gets triggered ("door X has been
opened"). Both systems used in this way have a failing point, your cable
connection. If someone goes outside my house, and cuts the cable, my system is
ineffective. With Skylink I think you can set up a sim card, and other system
too. But that ends up costing a monthly fee, which I don't want.

I still haven't decided, I don't have much extra money for any system right
now as I've spend so much for the house.

~~~
jqm
There similar do-it-yourself security systems for about $2-300 that use a sim
card and the cell networks.

[http://www.amazon.com/PiSector-Cellular-Wireless-Security-
Qu...](http://www.amazon.com/PiSector-Cellular-Wireless-Security-Quad-
band/dp/B007GP3JUA)

You can program what numbers to call. I had one similar to this in a building
I leased along with some IP cameras. It went off a few times by itself and
woke me up in the middle of the night and I drove down to find nothing.. maybe
the window vibration sensors or a mouse or something.

We moved recently, but I haven't put it up at the new house. My main security
at home is two dogs and a short barrel pistol grip shotgun with a blinding
light. Everything irreplaceable is in a fireproof gun safe that is bolted to
the floor.

------
littletimmy
You are probably being paranoid about safety. The chances of someone breaking
into your house through locked doors violating building security in a decent
neighborhood are very small. You are far more likely to die in a car crash.

That said, if you want extra security in your house you could use deadbolt
door and window locks. Those are very hard to get through. You could also buy
a gun. Get a dog if you will be a responsible pet owner.

------
Robin_Message
Insurance, but not too much. The expected value of insurance is generally
negative, so only cover things you can't afford to lose or you think your risk
is much higher than the insurance company estimate.

Cultivate a healthy attitude towards your possessions° - don't let them own
you, and remember that it's just stuff at the end of the day.

° Incidentally, in my first draft I wrote relationship, not attitude, which is
exactly the problem!

------
dirktheman
We have a dog, which is an excellent anti-burglary system. He won't bark at
the mailman, but he will bark at strangers in my yard or people standing in
front of the house in the middle of the night. (This actually happened a
couple of weeks ago when my neighbours came home from their holiday late at
night).

The thing is: the vast majority of burglaries are spur-of-the-moment things.
Here in The Netherlands at least. Sure, if they know you have a lot of cash at
home they might actively target you, but most of the time it's much simpler:
they see an open window or 'easy' door lock and they act upon it. Burglars are
extremely opportunistic. To fend off most burglars, you don't need to have the
best security, you just have to have better security than the least protected.

If you read the crime reports in the US, this rings true. I can't tell you how
many times you read 'phone stolen from unlocked vehicle' or 'entered house by
slitting the screen door'. Common sense can go a long way.

For countries like South Africa and some countries in South America it's a
whole other story I guess.

------
Mimu
I'll never understand people going full security mode when they live in
complete harmless neighborhood (and insurances are not crazy themselves). If
anything you are asking to be robbed to be honest, combo challenge + there is
probably something good to get.

You already living in an apartment in a secure building. Who do you think is
coming for you? The Ocean's 11 squad? ><

~~~
machinesofn
There aren't many safe neighborhoods. I live in a gated apartment complex in a
nicer part of the Bay Area, and I came home one day to a completely destroyed
front door (they didn't get in thanks to the thick fire doors, but it could
easily have been looted). On top of that, our car was broken into and they
looted everything that wasn't bolted in.

------
Donmario
I'm from Poland and I use solid doors and rolling shutters as described by
davidw. I also have an Satel Grade-3 alarm system (one of the best systems in
the world) that is basically used in banking institutions with sensors that
are pet save. The funny thing is that I don't own any expensive stuff, so it's
just for our personal safety.

------
cxseven
WRT electronic countermeasures:

You can get a bunch of motion detectors and controllable outlets for cheap
through Insteon/Smarthome. BestBuy has a decently priced starter kit with a
hub, which uses both X10 and wireless transmission for redundancy. I've seen
reviews of more expensive home automation systems that aren't as reliable
because they use only one mode of communication, so I'm happy I chanced on the
right choice. The system also works with ultra-cheap X10-only devices if
that's good enough for you.

I have a couple controllable outlets with sirens attached to them that I can
trigger remotely if my motion sensors and foscams show me something
undesirable, and control the hub with Perl-based Misterhouse software. I think
I saw Python and Java interfaces out there as well.

------
lmorris84
We have 4 internal cameras that use motion detection, and a house alarm that
calls us if the motion sensors go off, or goes nuts if it detects movement at
night.

We were broken into last year while we were asleep. We were only alerted after
a few minutes when one of our Dogs freaked out and started barking. They ran
away.

The cameras will be useful in terms of potentially identifying future
burglars, but it's also more about feeling violated. They actually made off
with very little considering what was just lying around but I'd love to know
exactly what they were doing while they were inside. Pretty scary with a
newborn sleeping upstairs and we were non the wiser.

------
mdnormy
One of the thing that always fascinate me with American film is how 'simple' a
suburban house can be. You have 4 feet open windows and glass wall everywhere
living in a neighborhood without any gate or security guard. That led me to
believe that American must have it nice over there...until I actually went
there. They do have similar common sense of protection as where I'm coming
from such as hardened/laminated glass for window, and solid door+frame.

I add CCTV just to expedite any insurance claim. Socially, nothing beats
tight-knit neighbors.

And if your toilet have one of those airduct/vent. Make sure the size is no
more than a feet.

------
exodust
A couple of inexpensive PIR sensors and a couple of wireless IP cameras.

Sensors can trigger video camera, then images uploaded to cloud. Or just use
the sensor built into camera (not as good).

The same sensor can alert your phone, and send image after which you can
choose to alert cops or take more pictures or trigger alarm or even talk to
the intruder all from your phone.

Some security cameras have "alarm out" and "audio out" for connecting optional
alarms and speakers. I like Lorex IP cameras, but there's plenty of choice.

------
BorisMelnik
Ruger LC9 downstairs and Remmington Shotgun upstairs. I usually keep the LC9
on my pesron including while I work / watch TV etc. Someone is awake at all
hours of the day and night and we have 2 dogs.

BUT

One thing I think a lot of people underestimate is a relationship with their
neighbors. We don't have a neighborhood watch but we do communicate with our
neighbors about shady activity and are always looking out for each other.

------
sliken
Good building security seems rare. I've been pretty surprised at the number of
problems I've seen in SF buildings where thieves hit the mail room and bike
storage regularly by just following residents in from the street.

Depending on how easy it is to tell if you are home it might be helpful to
install a doorcam. That way when thieves knock to see if you are home you can
answer remotely.

------
zamalek
Make your house secure with other suggestions from here, and then add very
visible additions to _show_ that you are secure. E.g. Put up an armed reaction
sign even if you don't have armed reaction. Barbed wire fence even though
barbed wire is easy to work around. A red flashing LED light.

The best possible outcome is nobody ever testing the measures that you have
put into place.

------
AnimalMuppet
My wife visited her grandparents in western Pennsylvania some years back. They
were going out to lunch, and being the last one out, my wife locked the door.
When she mentioned this, her grandmother said, "I hope I have the key". She
routinely left her house with the door unlocked!

Myself, I have a dog. I got to test the dog recently, when a locksmith was
replacing the ignition switch on one of our cars. I kept waiting for him to
finish. Finally, I gave up waiting for him and went to use the can. Of course,
that's when he finished, and came in looking for me to pay him. The dog made
it very clear that the locksmith was _not_ coming any further into the house.
It didn't attack him, but it drew a clear line on the floor: you go no
further.

So, we lock our doors, and there's the dog. Anybody who gets past that has to
worry about whatever I find handy. Lime-Away? Really good chemical warfare
agent in a handy spray bottle (but it's almost like a gun, you can blind
someone, so you'd better be _sure_ before you pull the trigger). That tool for
unscrewing supply hoses from the bottoms of sinks? (Good for jabbing or
clubbing, light enough to get good velocity, heavy enough to do some damage.)
Even a cat can be thrown, and will hit with claws out looking for some
traction. Think. You've got way more weapons in a house than you might expect.

Now, would I consider that adequate in some situations like Mandatum's in
South Africa? No way. But for where I live, it's probably good enough. (Or
maybe I'm just cocky because I've been lucky.)

------
mibbitirc
Location is everything - move somewhere there is no crime. Failing that, get
some IP cams setup and archive the footage offsite.

------
buro9
What are you trying to achieve?

Is it personal safety from intruders? Or safety of possessions from burglary
or damage?

If the latter, do you really own anything that cannot be re-purchased? Any
works of art or otherwise irreplaceable high value items? If not, just get
insurance and do whatever the policy requires (window bolts, certain grade of
locks for doors, etc).

------
hacym
I recently installed a Simplisafe security system. Easy to do, fairly
inexpensive, and it really works. Sometimes too well.

~~~
MrZongle2
I've looked at this system as an alternative to ADT. Can you go into any more
detail regarding your likes, dislikes, and what "sometimes too well" means?

~~~
hacym
Sure,

It's wireless, which is great. It's super simple to stick the sensors where
you want and not have to worry about wiring anything up. I think my total
setup time was somewhere in the range of 20 minutes, which included signing up
for their monitoring.

It's fairly inexpensive, too. I think I paid like $150 for my set? It came
with almost everything I needed (no glass break sensor and I needed an extra
entry sensor).

All of the sensors seem to work well, with only minor issues occurring every
so often. There are rare times that it simply doesn't register a sensor has
been tripped (I can open my door, for example, and it doesn't think I have).
Other times, the sensors trip for no reason at all. I've gotten calls about
tripped motion sensors, but it has never been legitimate.

The entry sensors that go on the window don't have any glass breaking
capabilities. There is a sensor that "listens" for the sound of breaking glass
for about $35 on their website. I haven't tried it, so I can't speak to how
well it works. I'd feel a lot more comfortable with impact sensors, though.

The monitoring service seems to be top notch. I have had to communicate with
them 2-3 times. The first time was a little confusing, because they ask you
for your master password, which I assumed (incorrectly) was my code to turn
the alarm off. They don't tell you that you got it wrong for obvious reasons.
The police went to my house, cleared it, and then billed me $300 for a false
alarm (which they later waived). The other times I have spoken with them they
have cleared everything up in seconds.

The online management is great, I can disable/arm/check the status of my alarm
all from their website. The only thing that doesn't seem to work is the
temperature sensor. I'm not sure if I have that or not, but their website
makes it appear like I do.

My only major gripe is that for several days my base station lost connectivity
with their monitoring station. Because of this, it acts only as an alarm, and
can't alert the police if it goes off. Rebooting it, etc. did not help. I had
to go through a lot of troubleshooting with them to get it to work again. That
being said, it's the only time I have had to contact their support, and my
e-mail at 1 a.m. was answered within minutes.

I would suggest this if you are looking for a low cost solution that isn't
guarding a pot of gold or something. If you just want the piece of mind that
you can turn it on and get alerted if someone or something trips a sensor,
then great. If you are looking for advanced protection it's probably best to
invest more into a professionally installed system.

~~~
MrZongle2
Excellent. That is quite helpful. Thanks for taking the time to write that up!

------
jlaws
12 gauge shotgun

~~~
hga
Unless you live in an awful place which doesn't allow handguns for self-
defense, shotguns tend to be a pretty poor choice for home defense. Confined
spaces make them unwieldy, and it's frighteningly easy for an adversary to
grab it outside of your grip and use the bigger lever arm to twist it out of
your hands, as I demonstrated a few years ago to a nephew who's bigger and
much younger and more fit than I am. Normal self-defense handguns are much
easier to retain, and not quite so overpowered.

~~~
jqm
I very strongly disagree. I believe a shotgun is very much the best home
defense weapon.

Most people are poor shots with a handgun, especially if woken up in the
middle of the night. A shotgun is a point in the general direction and shoot
kind of thing. It also has a lot more stopping power than a handgun.

Also, with a shotgun, you can use larger gauge bird shot or something like #4
buck shot and it is less likely to penetrate walls and hurt someone you didn't
intend.

A 12 gauge pump shotgun is also an intimidating looking and sounding weapon.
Much more so than something like a 9mm handgun. Finally, the laws regarding
shotguns for many area of the US are likely to be much less restrictive than
on handguns.

I understand your comment about the unwieldiness of shotguns, but in my
particular case, my shotgun has double pistol grips and no stock. I would be
much less concerned about loosing control of it than I would a pistol. I have
a top mounted light that triggers when the front pistol grip is grasped. It is
(almost) as short as the law allows... the entire weapon is just over 2 feet
long (28 inches to be exact). I hope I never have to use it in defense or
worse yet, shoot to kill someone. For this reason I have 5 shells in the
chamber. The first two are birdshot... deadly at close range, less likely to
be so at a further range. Then I have two rounds of #4 buck, then a slug. I
have 5 more rounds of #4 buck in holders at the top. I've considered having
the first two rounds rubber like the police use.

~~~
hga
_A shotgun is a point in the general direction and shoot kind of thing._

Now, I have to admit I haven't patterned any shotgun at close range, but
everything I've read and seen says at home defense ranges you have to aim them
with almost as much care as a rifle, the pattern expands rather slowly, even
with cylinder choke (no choke). And I know from too much wingshooting that at
range you have to be pretty precise as well.

A quick check with Google came up with [http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-
truth-3-the-shotgun-me...](http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-3-the-
shotgun-meets-the-box-o-truth/) which doesn't fill me with confidence in the
lack of interior house construction penetration of #4 buck. Note, per the
above, that the pattern at 12 feet was 3.5 inches, which matches pretty well
the 1 inch spread/yard metric I first read about in _Patriot Games_. And #4
buckshot is not a good perpetrator; if you're a Facklerite you want 16 inches
(in case you have to shoot thought an arm to reach the vitals). Birdshot is
obviously much more iffy.

As for intimidation, well, some people don't intimidate worth a damn, although
I agree a Europellet dispenser is not a good choice unless their are other
constraints; me, I stick with .45 ACP in M1911s (primarily because the gun has
fit my hands like a glove since I was a teen).

It's true, in some areas of the US a shotgun is your best option because of
restrictions on handgun ownership, but this is not true for the vast majority
of the country, land and people. Like, outside of Hawaii? and several of the
Northeast states.

No stock == not very accurate in most people's hands, negating the aiming
advantages there while indeed mitigating to some degree the issues if it gets
up close and personal. Me, I keep my police configuration with full length
stock 870 in my safe, loaded with #1 buckshot, which all things being equal is
40% better than #00 (lots more pellets with sufficient penetration). I bought
it while living in Massachusetts, one of those states where getting a handgun
is difficult to impossible in the more urban areas, now I've got it mostly in
case I need a literal riot gun.

And if, like in most of the nation (although absent a saving throw with the
Supremes it looks doomed in California), you can carry concealed, there's a
lot to be said for learning well only one type of gun, i.e. not just a
particular semi-auto handgun model, but ones in a family that are more and
less suited for carry and home defense, that have the same controls,
ergonomics, etc. E.g. there's _lots_ of models to choose from in the Glock
family.

~~~
jqm
Interesting article. I would note a couple of points though...

1)Notice the drywall collapsing? That's what is going to happen to a person
getting shot at close range with a 12 gauge.. even with birdshot. It would be
something like getting smacked with a sledgehammer. I'm less interested in
penetrating vitals than flat out knocking the person down. A person who's arm,
or even lungs are penetrated cleanly by a high caliber round might still be
functional for a bit... functional enough to shoot back.

2)Even though the #4 buck did penetrate multiple layers of drywall in this
guys test, what is the lethality after 2 or 3 layers? You say yourself that #4
buck is less likely to penetrate vitals in the first place. Your 45 on the
other hand will likely easily penetrate multiple layers of drywall, then
completely penetrate the person on the other side.

Anyway, different strokes and all that. A firearm is a good home defense
weapon in general. Always nice to meet another person who doesn't feel owning
a firearm makes one a Neanderthal of some kind. Where I live, I wouldn't be
without one in the home. I sleep much better at night and feel I could protect
my girlfriend and our belongings against invasion.

I also have a number of other firearms including military type rifles, hunting
rifles and some handguns, but the shotgun is the one I keep in bedroom for
defense.

~~~
hga
As someone who follows Dr. Martin Fackler on interior ballistics, I believe
that at worst case the incapacitating mechanism has to be sufficient blood
loss. That is, for a subset of perpetrators, simply being shot is not
sufficient (I gather as many as half will desist when that happens), and you
can't count on being lucky enough to make a disabling CNS hit (spinal cord or
brain). If so, you need penetration to the vitals causing a lot of blood loss
... and you need to stay alive until that takes effect. The debacle of the FBI
Miami shootout is perhaps the most notorious example of all this, see e.g.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout)

I don't believe the kinetics you're posting will work on a human. F = mv^2,
force = mass * velocity squared, so velocity is a big factor (although much
less so on the target unless it usefully dumps energy before exiting). The
recoil _you_ feel will be significantly greater than the impact the target
gets unless at contact range, because in addition to the lead, higher velocity
gasses exit the muzzle (although a muzzle brake will mitigate that at a cost
of visual and aural ergonomics, see Obama's famous shooting picture). The
target is only going to get the impact of the lead. The only mitigating factor
is that the recoil you feel is spread across what's initially a larger area,
although it won't take many yards for the areas to be equal, following the ~1
inch spread/yard of distance rule of thumb.

And you're welcome. I grew up hunting and shooting, and after going to college
in fact got my first guns after getting a girlfriend to protect in the Boston
area, which was and still is pretty high crime.

------
andyfleming
Are you talking about personal security or security of your posessions?

~~~
andyfleming
Either way, two key things you should have, IMO, are:

\- renter's insurance

\- off-site backups

Sometimes it's best to focus on mitigating risk. If someone were to break in
and steal something, would you be able to replace those things?

------
HeyLaughingBoy
180 lbs of dog in the form of two adult (if aging) German Shepherds!

------
GarsDuCoin
Grandma keeps the house safe.

------
thejosh
dog

------
arsalanb
Shotgun.

~~~
jlaws
Beat me to it

------
ThePadawan
Not living in the USA.

~~~
omegaham
The vast majority of people in the US live in safe neighborhoods. Burglary and
home invasion are some of the least common crimes committed. The reasons are
that it has a very real chance of getting you killed, the prison penalties are
steep, (B&E is a charge in and of itself, along with the larceny) and its
rewards are complete garbage. A fence will give you 5% of the retail value of
the product, if you're lucky (even less for stuff like jewelry). You have to
be completely tweaked out on meth and crack or be a dumbass teenager to even
consider it these days.

~~~
mibbitirc
From [http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-
the-u.s/2011/c...](http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-
the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/property-crime/burglary)

In 2011, there were an estimated 2,188,005 burglaries

Victims of burglary offenses suffered an estimated $4.8 billion in lost
property in 2011

Seems pretty high to me.

~~~
dirktheman
Pretty high in relation to what? I live in the Netherlands, which is
considered to be a safe country, right? We have 0.00539 B&E's per inhabitant,
whereas the US have 0.068 B&E's per inhabitant. Not that much difference, if
you ask me.

~~~
Mandatum
It's more than 10x higher?

~~~
omegaham
He mis-wrote it. The Netherlands is significantly less, but not by an order of
magnitude.

US per 100000 people: 715 Netherlands per 100000 people: 428

For reference, England is 986, Sweden is 1029, Australia is 1017, Belgium is
891, and Japan is 117.

