
Mystery seeds: Amazon bans foreign plant sales in US - nojs
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54046154
======
nostromo
Seeds on Amazon are an absolute joke and have been forever.

There are so many fake seeds to completely nonexistent plants, and obvious
photoshops, for sale.

Some hilarious examples:

[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y16C9FN/](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y16C9FN/)

[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GQTK5PB/](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GQTK5PB/)

[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01D80OV4E/](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01D80OV4E/)

~~~
Hokusai
> fake seeds to completely nonexistent plants

Amazon is the embodiment of "caveat emptor" because "seeds on Amazon" just
means "seeds that show up in Amazon search engine, and Amazon get a cut".

Of course, to make matters more confusing, that is no true for all articles.
As a small, but very profitable, subset of articles are Amazon branded or
served by Amazon owned companies (That are shown higher in their product
search engine).

It makes for fun listings, unless you really want to buy something.

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Gys
Is this really true? Banning the sales of seeds will not change anything
because seeds were not ordered anyway. Seeds are send instead of the
originally ordered item (the item to be reviewed). Seeds are light and cheap
and will continue to be used.

~~~
cptskippy
They're banning __FOREIGN __plant sales. There are import and customs controls
in place that Amazon does not follow or require sellers to adhere to.

These mystery seeds are bringing increased scrutiny to imports, and Amazon is
taking this move to reduce it's liability.

I'm sure they weighted the alternatives (e.g. wait for legal action, implement
change) and determined the least expensive route was to just stop the
business.

~~~
aarongolliver
An anecdote: I bought some seeds on amazon a few years back and they ended up
coming from China with a customs declaration filled out as "bookmarks". I
decided not to plant them.

[https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eNO55-KL0ynsmXLT8...](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eNO55-KL0ynsmXLT8svKUvWLEvH3lcgk1zA_IoTAiDa5H00KUms7zild1_kFknqTOz_gY19HD91R37nPzFyWNSmbARUFBlfFMCLhf0gnTR-b9LEOVhz3D_Oz2OPFNWVj-
fgF652WL_mQsxfur8RUijSQ=w704-h939-no)

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IAmGraydon
I’m confused about how this brushing scheme works. Why would anyone review
some random seeds they got in the mail? How would they even know where to go
to review them? If they didn’t even make the order, it isn’t associated with
their account, so they couldn’t even make a review. And finally, even if they
did get lots of positive reviews, it would help them sell more...seeds?

~~~
millisecond
It’s likely a totally different product, the seeds just give a verified
shipping history. They review the other product on their own account that
“ordered” the seeds. The seeds are cheap and make it untraceable back to the
original product.

~~~
Wowfunhappy
So then how does banning the sale of seeds help? They’ll just switch to
plastic doodads or some such.

~~~
aik
The purpose of a ban isn’t to prevent fraud on Amazon, it’s to prevent
unwanted seed from entering the country.

~~~
amf12
_The purpose of a ban isn’t to prevent fraud on Amazon, it’s to prevent
unwanted seed from entering the country._

I don't see how it helps though. The product page for such scams doesn't show
"seeds". It's an actual product, but the seller _sends_ seeds. Banning the
sale of seeds doesn't stop this.

~~~
HenryBemis
Protect the country's ecosystem by a species that may 'invade' and take our
existing flora [0],[1]. If 5% of the recipients want to do something "green"
and plant these in a park/forest near them, without knowing the impact.. well
10-20 years from now you may have wiped out other more useful and necessary
species.

[0]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_species](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_species)
[1]:
[https://www.fs.fed.us/wildflowers/invasives/index.shtml](https://www.fs.fed.us/wildflowers/invasives/index.shtml)

~~~
function_seven
Understood, but the question is still: how does this affect the actual trend
of sellers gaming their metrics via seed shipments? Those seeds aren't
actually being ordered. They're just a cheap, light item to ship to get a
tracking number.

It was already fraud before this rule. It's not like the scammy seller is
going to obey _this_ rule when they're already flouting the more fundamental
ones.

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5440
I received one of these packages from singapore yesterday. There is no website
on the packaging or inside of the envelope. Therefore, I don't understand the
amazon review thing. Its just a package of seeds in a manila envelope.

~~~
VonGuard
Yes but there's a shipping number associated with it in China, and there is a
confirmation that a thing was shipped to the US address. That's what they are
after here, and nothing more.

~~~
lostlogin
Why put anything in it?

~~~
pengaru
The news articles I read on this speculated the seeds may be invasive species,
implying it's a sort of subversive attack in addition to the review scam.

------
Ensorceled
Echos of Purple Loosestrife seeds being sold by a Canadian Seed company while
our conservation organizations and agencies were all trying to kill it every
where. At least the USDA has determined the seeds are not necessarily
problematic.

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pvaldes
Seeds of Eichornia caused permanent damages in a Spanish river. The economical
loses are over 25 million euro by now and increasing. This money was not spent
to erradicate it, just to control its propagation and trying to made the river
navigable again.

In USA, Kudzu causes economical damages estimated between 100 to >500 million
dollars (each year).

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skocznymroczny
Might be an urban legends. In Poland there's been warnings about "seeds coming
in envelopes from China", but no one really knows anyone who got such seeds.

~~~
onetimemanytime
>> _but no one really knows anyone who got such seeds._

You asked everyone in Poland :) ? If they sent them to USA, maybe they sent
them everywhere. IIRC, mailing from China is dirt cheap as well.

~~~
skocznymroczny
I haven't, but if it was a thing, Polish social media would be all over it.

------
rhacker
We order seeds from around the world all the time. Luckily most of our orders
go through private websites, not Amazon.

------
fmajid
So Amazon in its infinite grace and benevolence has consented to follow the
law?

~~~
srtjstjsj
The comment is snarky but based in fact. Importing plants requires a customs
license; 99+% of foreign plant listings on Amazon are illegal.

~~~
elmo2you
I am glad you mentioned this.

I don't know the legal situation in the USA, but I know that many countries
have restrictions on importing any biological/organic matter. Seed, dairy
products, meat, etc.

Usually explained as needed to control the spread of biological pathogens and
preserve local ecosystems, but regularly used to protect local industries
against international competition.

Anyways, I have always been surprised that this apparently never has been
enforced by border-crossing online sales platforms, like e.g. Amazon.

Could it be like this because Amazon is an American company? I know that the
USA is generally rather bad at enforcing its laws, when it comes to the
country's larger corporations. I find it always ironic when the country talks
about corruption and nepotism in other countries (no doubt bad things), but
then appears to ignore its own track record.

It might also just be that in the end, the actual responsibility is on buyers
(i.e. importer). Those might be too small and numerous to prosecute
individually. However, it always felt weird that large online platforms never
appear to do any preemptive filtering. Aside from obvious things like guns and
explosives maybe.

I do know of a few countries where packages with restricted/controlled
contents will regularly just "disappear" at customs. When that happens, you
better not be foolish enough to demand an explanation.

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throwaway4good
I don't understand who (which company) sends the seeds?

Is it some kind of drop shipping and seeds are simply the cheapest thing?

Why is it always seeds and not just eg. an empty envelope?

~~~
throwaway4good
Also it should be possible to trace back to the review and thus the company
from a reported unsolicited seed package.

------
JoeAltmaier
Been discussed before.

But, again I'll mention that America is largely planted with imported seeds.
Collected by Botanists in the 1800s circling the globe and bring everything
back indiscriminately. Our food crops, our animal feeds, our garden flowers,
our vegetables.

This ban is a silly act, political in nature and irrelevant to everybody
except the legitimate Asian seed sellers who's business gets hurt.

~~~
aik
People also put leeches on themselves to cure ailments in the 1800s. I don’t
know if the ban is political or not, but stopping seeds from entering a
country is nothing new. Customs paperwork has asked about it as long as I’ve
been alive.

Australia has been wrecked by foreign flora and fauna. New Zealand airport
biosecurity staff literally vacuumed my entire suitcase and tent in the when I
arrived there once.

~~~
detritus
Why was TheButlerian's response below killed?

Leeches ARE used contemporarily, eg -
[https://www.guysandstthomas.nhs.uk/resources/patient-
informa...](https://www.guysandstthomas.nhs.uk/resources/patient-
information/surgery/Plastic-surgery/leech-therapy.pdf)

"In medicine, particularly plastic and reconstructive surgery, leeches may be
used to help improve blood flow in an area of tissue or skin flap that has
poor blood circulation. Leeches do this by removing clotted blood (congested
blood) from delicate areas, such as underneath a flap of skin. By removing
this clotted blood, leeches can restart blood flow in the small blood vessels
of the flap. This helps to prevent the tissues from dying."

~~~
pbhjpbhj
Re TheButlerian, it looks like all their recent comments got downvoted and so
their account was closed.

