
In China, alpha males carry designer purses - blasdel
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-china-man-purse-20110207,0,5536207,full.story
======
teye
_The 20-year-old office clerk at a Beijing cosmetics manufacturer knows it
could set him back more than $1,000. He'll have to save for months. But he
said it would be money well spent. "As a man, you must have one of those
bags," he said. "It will bring you status, dignity and boost your image."_

Petrifying though that may be, that's only months. We saddle ourselves with
six years of payments for the status symbols _we_ can't afford.

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stcredzero
This is one of the big rifts between foreign born immigrant Asians and their
children. (I'm such a child.) A lot of children of immigrants are embarrassed
by their parent's obsession with material things and signaling. In actuality,
this behavior is quite similar to the signaling through conspicuous
consumption of other North Americans. However, culturally different practices
stand out, while the local ways of doing things blend into the background.

~~~
drinian
Spending months of your salary on a designer handbag, or whatever it is they
think the culture values, is not a way to signal anything other than "I'm an
idiot."

~~~
stcredzero
How about 3 months of your salary on a small stone of no special rarity or
particular utility, just because an international cartel succeeded in telling
people they should? The entire industrialized world engages in this foolery.

This roundly shows the hypocrisy of those from the west making snide comments
about Chinese engaging in signaling. It's a part of North American culture to
engage in such signaling as a matter of course. The majority of all retail
establishments would lose a big chunk of their profits without such
tendencies. It's the same sort of thing as people criticizing ghetto kids for
buying Nike shoes. I wonder how many of those critics save enough for their
own retirement?

~~~
drinian
What makes you think that the same Chinese who base their self-worth on Coach
handbags don't also aspire to DeBeers diamonds? I stand by my comment, but
doubly so because China is far from an industrialized nation. The people
buying these things can't even drink their houses' tap water.

~~~
jcitme
As a Chinese person: fuck you.

What decade do you think this is, the 1940's? Can't afford tap water? This is
the kind of racism that people have to worry about, not stuff like censoring
Mark Twain. Notions of the lower class of another nation does more damage than
directly addressing issues ever will. Much of the cities in china are just as
industrialized, if not more so, than counterparts in the USA. The upper middle
class is a growing section of the population that produces a demand for more
flashy products such as diamond rings or handbags. Doubly so as for the
diamonds; the western nations is not above signaling with SUVs and other
gimmicks (well gas guzzlers are less of a concern in europe, but not my point
here). Pointing out that people not in a western country will save for a few
months to buy an expensive item smacks of hypocrisy, especially when such
people often demonstrates that they don't know the concept of saving in the
first place. (Living within their means, anyone?)

~~~
stcredzero
_Notions of the lower class of another nation does more damage than directly
addressing issues ever will._

I think this is an important notion. The Chinese view themselves as the most
sophisticated culture in the world. The Chinese view the currently dominant
economic power of the West as having an unfortunate side effect. It hinders
the rest of the world's understanding of the true value of Chinese culture.

How North Americans view the Chinese notion of cultural ascendancy is very
instructive, because it's a mirrored by how the Chinese view a North
American's notion of cultural ascendancy.

North Americans are well advised to consider this, as it's likely that China
will soon have double the economic output of the US.

------
c2
Reminded me of this article about Chinese women:

[http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-13/chinese-women-
milli...](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-13/chinese-women-millionaires-
enter-man-s-world-with-400-000-maseratis.html)

Seems in the West men buy sports cars and women buy luxury handbags, and it's
the reverse in the East.

It probably doesn't come down to any significant cultural differences either.
Buying expensive things is a way for some people to feel more confident about
themselves, or to spoil themselves, or some area in between. Basically, it's a
curious statistic, but ultimately a non-story for actually doing business.

~~~
k3dz
maybe in China.. but definitely not in all of the East

~~~
c2
Very true point, China has a good record of gender equality. Much better then
it's neighbors and also the West.

~~~
Joakal
They have over 30 million more males than females. The Chinese may have
equality, but that's a lot of sexually frustrated men that's going to
contribute to unrest.

~~~
sandal
You do realize that's less than a 3% difference, right?

~~~
MrFoof
Additionally, don't most countries have more men than women?

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_ratio>

~~~
burgerbrain
No, just the opposite. Most countries have more women than men.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sex_ratio_total_population...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sex_ratio_total_population_per_country_smooth.png)

Edit: check out that big red country on this one...:
[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Sex_ratio...](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Sex_ratio_below_15_per_country_smooth.png)

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lurker17
The top businessmen in China all carry Pracla purses.

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coryl
My cousin recently visited home from China, and brought his designer purse
along with him. I was kind of amused.

~~~
georgieporgie
Was it really a purse, or more along the lines of a soft briefcase or
messenger bag?

I ask because the image in the article showed what looked to me like a soft
briefcase with a long shoulder strap.

Incidentally, here is a random link demonstrating that Indiana Jones carried a
purse: <http://thesatchelpages.com/keeping-up-with-the-jones-bags/>

~~~
Joakal
It's a satchel, not a purse. [0]

[0]
[https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Satchel_%28ba...](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Satchel_%28bag%29)

~~~
angus77
I'm so disappointed that nobody's added Ford Prefect's satchel to the Satchels
in Literature or Satchels in Popular Culture sections of this article.

------
misterbwong
The USA variant of this is the briefcase or (more recently) the
messenger/laptop bag. Not quite as expensive, but (arguably) still used as an
indicator of social status.

~~~
fanboy123
Actually I would think the US version would be a nice watch. The article seems
to stress that it is a status indicator for business purposes.

~~~
atgm
Except that watches are kind of going out of style, with all of the electronic
devices people have. Perhaps the US version would be a nice smartphone, a nice
MP3 player, and nice, non-Apple earbuds.

~~~
fanboy123
Really expensive timepieces should have gone out with the quartz watches that
came in during the 80s. They haven't because some of the rich and powerful use
an inferior technology (from a timekeeping perspective) to show how successful
they are.

While hackers may just use their phones it is unusual to see a wealthy banker,
talent agent or lawyer without a nice watch. I would assume it is more
prevalent in jobs that require a lot of signaling for negotiation.

~~~
atgm
I guess I don't hobnob with the wealthy enough.

------
cma
"That figure is just 7% in the U.S."

Should set off some bullshit flags on their methodology for classification.

~~~
ars
Were you expecting higher or lower?

I was expecting closer to 0, unless they include things like messenger and
laptop bags.

~~~
cma
lower

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nowarninglabel
_"Your country has no need of charismatic leaders that can't be controlled.
Docile consumers, that's the way to go."_

------
colkassad
A similar fad was popular in Eastern Europe when I lived there (may still be):

[http://www.exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=8264&...](http://www.exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=8264&IBLOCK_ID=35)

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MrFoof
It's not a purse! It's a European men's carry-all.

Regarding the "7% of men in the U.S.", I wonder how many of that sample bought
them as gifts for women? I mean, I've stepped into Coach once to buy a
wristlet, but it was because my sister had it on her wish list as a gift.

Then again, Coach does make men's accessories. I have a belt from coach, which
my sister gave me as a gift. To be entirely honest, it's held up far better
than any other belt I've ever owned.

~~~
ericd
Yeah, Coach makes some very solid men's stuff - a wallet I bought from them
was a tank, and looked great to boot. Their stuff costs more than average, but
I think it also lasts longer.

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brisance
I've never been to China, so I was a little surprised to read that the largest
bill denomination is equivalent to just US$15. I wonder why the payment card
industry or contact-less payment systems like NFC have not taken off like they
have been for decades in other Asian economies like Japan and Korea.

~~~
jcitme
they have. google "octopus card" it's used EVERYWHERE. similar systems are in
place in shanghai and beijing.

alternatively, you can also look up WHY the country is cash based. it's an
interesting read.

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patrickgzill
I know many Filipinos both in the USA and in the Philippines - as soon as the
husband makes enough $$$, the first conspicuous purchase is Louis Vuitton, or
for the more wealthy, Chanel (whose bags are truly beautiful, and I say that
as a dude.)

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dmix
This is a very common sight in Toronto, which has a large asian population.

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drivebyacct2
Wait, other countries and cultures don't adhere to the United States finely
ingrained, unforgiving gender stereotypes? Let's have a laugh, they have
girly-men. Sigh.

~~~
hetman
It's amazing how often we take for granted that many cultural habits are
nothing more than exactly that. Instead there's this tendency to assume they
result from some sort of greater underlying truth.

The reversal of colour gender association in the mid 20th century is a great
example which is often very surprising to people.

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TheCondor
Shouldn't it be "In China, alpha males are not Alpha Males" ?

