
Nexus 9 - agumonkey
http://www.google.com/nexus/9/
======
Symmetry
Wait, they're using the _64 bit_ K1 as their processor? That's Project
Denver[1]! I'm super excited to see how that thing benchmarks. This is
basically Transmeta's Efficeon (same IP and team, even) with a bunch of
improvements. They mentioned in the Hot Chips talk that they had made
improvements like enabling native execution while the optimizer works - they
benchmarks they provided said that it was very effective but I'm eager for
third party tests.

[1][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Denver](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Denver)

EDIT: And here's Anandtech's article on Project Denver
[http://www.anandtech.com/show/7622/nvidia-
tegra-k1/2](http://www.anandtech.com/show/7622/nvidia-tegra-k1/2)

~~~
corysama
I would expect it to bench pretty much the same as the Shield Tablet. In fact,
they are probably almost identical hardware-wise. I'll be interested to see if
there is a price difference.

Anand's CPU benchmarks are very browser-oriented. The Shield usually beat all
other Android devices, but still lost to the iPad Air. I suspect that has more
to do with the quality of Mobile Safari than the differences in hardware. In
the GPU benchmarks, the Shield does very, very well.
[http://www.anandtech.com/show/8296/the-nvidia-shield-
tablet-...](http://www.anandtech.com/show/8296/the-nvidia-shield-tablet-
review/4)

Overall, the K1 has both CPU and GPU _paper /marketing_ specs that are
theoretically a little better than an Xbox 360. This is demoed by the 360 game
Trine 2 running very nearly as well on a Shield as on the 360.
[http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-can-
tr...](http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-can-trine-2-on-
android-match-xbox-360-and-ps3)

edit: Looks like the Nexus has a 2048x1536 screen vs the Shield's 1920x1200.
51% more pixels on the same GPU will be a much prettier at the cost of more
GPU|battery strain. Given the high power GPU, that seems like a good trade off
for a non-gaming-oriented tab.

~~~
Symmetry
That's possible, but the Shield has a K1 varient with 4 32-bit A15 cores on
the chip while the Nexus 9 has a varient of the K9 that has 2 64-bit Project
Denver cores. The graphics are identical between the two versions of the K1 so
I don't expect much difference in the GPU benchmarks, but I expect the CPU
benchmark comparison to be interesting. On one hand we'll have four 3-wide
conventional OoO cores. On the other we'll have two cores that are initially
narrow and in order but are 7-wide VLIWs once the code morphing software has
had a chance to run.

~~~
Tloewald
Is that big little cores or four symmetric cores?

~~~
Symmetry
Four symmetric cores - all A15s. I don't think NVidia has ever done big.LITTLE
even though they had a fifth core with the same architecture but different
process/gate sizes for lower power in some previous Tegra chips. But you can
see from them all having the same max frequency that all four cores are the
same.

~~~
szatkus
32-bit K1 also has the companion core[1] (probaly Cortex A7).

[1] [http://www.extremetech.com/wp-
content/uploads/2014/01/tegra-...](http://www.extremetech.com/wp-
content/uploads/2014/01/tegra-k1-two-versions-a15-denver-core-640x353.jpg)

~~~
lgeek
The companion core of the ARMv7 TK1 is a low power Cortex-A15, like the
grandparent comment says. This is different from ARM's big.LITTLE which uses
different microarchitectures for the two clusters, i.e. Cortex-A15 + Cortex-A7
or Cortex-A53 + Cortex-A57.

~~~
szatkus
It's too small to be A15. I found the information that the companion core was
A15 in Tegra 4, but it's similar size to other cores[1].

[1][http://cnet4.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/2013/01/06/318d69ea-
fdb7-1...](http://cnet4.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/2013/01/06/318d69ea-
fdb7-11e2-8c7c-d4ae52e62bcc/85c559e80edbefe0a6e96c889ad2eb18/Tegra4_NvidiaPresser.jpg)

~~~
Symmetry
Core size isn't just a matter of the number of gates, but also their size. One
important tool for reaching high frequencies in chips is to have gates that
drive more capacities load be wider and therefore higher power. But if your
goal is to have an architecturally identical core that's lower power one of
the tools you have to accomplish that is to not do that. There's probably
other ways to shrink a core at the cost of performance, as well.

------
ChuckMcM
And of course the day before Apple announces its new iPad (allegedly). I
really like having two very well funded companies in all out competition, it
makes for some really great features and options in both products.

The size thing is what I'm interested in though. I'm waiting to see if there
actually is a 12" iPad pro tomorrow, otherwise I'll pull the trigger on a Note
Pro. I get the pocket/purse argument for 9" but my iPad has become pretty much
a replacement book. Between 1dollarscan, Oreilly's drm free ebooks, and my pdf
library of papers and data sheets, and various magazines, nearly all my space
is being consumed by reading material. So for me (weird case I know) it is my
library in my hand, and I really would like it to be a 12 - 13" screen.

That said, the Nook HD+ is my 'budget' 9" Android tablet that is my 'look up
things' / 'play music' / 'cast netflix' device and this could easily replace
that.

~~~
fumar
So far the best PDF annotation device, I have used is the Surface Pro 3. At 12
inches it displays PDFs very well. The pen is pressure sensitive and will
reject any outside inputs.

~~~
sho_hn
Out of curiosity, have you tried a Samsung tablet with a Wacom digitizer and
their S-Pen stylus? I'm currently looking for a device that lets me scribble
into language learning work books, I'd be interested in hearing your
comparison to a SP3.

~~~
gaze
Some people in my lab have samsung tablets (including myself), and others have
a surface 3. The samsung tablet has all the right hardware but the software is
lacking. In general. I've tried all of it, really. Android onenote,
lecturenotes, papyrus, s-note, etc. It all kinda blows.

~~~
Ollinson
I'm curious about your lecturenotes negatives. It has so many customizable
options I have a hard time imagining how it failed you. I've been using it for
over a year for mostly math applications and it's been indispensable.

The only feature I would want integrated is the "infinite workspace" of
papyrus. But even then who cares I can still have infinite pages.

------
pisarzp
I was using this device for last couple months. It's by far the best tablet
I've ever used. It feels great when you hold it and thank god for better
aspect ratio! (compared to N7). I also have N10, but never really liked it, it
was quite cumbersome to hold it. N9 feels much better in hands.

The thing I loved the most though was keyboard cover. It's narrow but you get
used to it very fast. Typing on it was such a pleasure! I was not allowed to
travel with this device but I could easily see myself just taking N9 instead
of laptop for short trips.

~~~
xur17
How's the performance? I have a first gen Nexus 7 that's getting really slow,
and this looks like an interesting option to replace it.

Is it faster, or at least comparable to the Nexus 5? I rarely use my tablet
right now as my phone is considerably faster.

~~~
Pxtl
Holy crap yes my old n7 just crawls. Makes me seriously suspicious of Asus
hardware in the future. My only thing is that I love the n7 size. Maybe I
should suck it up and buy a galaxy tab but I want stock Android.

~~~
enjo
My 2013 N7 still runs like a dream. It was such a better device.

------
zastrowm
The price is $400 [1], in case anyone else was wondering:

> Google’s Nexus 9 goes up for pre-order on October 17th, and should hit the
> shelves on November 3rd. The 16GB model will go for $400, the 32GB for $480,
> and a 32GB model with LTE built in will set you back $600.

[1]: [http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/15/google-
nexus-9/](http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/15/google-nexus-9/)

~~~
iSnow
Top of the line is 32GB and costs $600? That's not just a bit dissapointing.
How much can another 32GB of flash storage cost at OEM prices, $10? And no, I
don't want to store everything on your servers, Google.

~~~
Veratyr
I agree that flash prices shouldn't be as high as they're charging but I also
think you should know that they're higher than you think. Here, for example is
a pretty raw eMMC module:
[http://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_code...](http://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G140471315858)
($49 for 32GB) and a larger one
[http://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_code...](http://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G140470785454)
($79 for 64GB). That's a $30 price difference at the OEM level.

You need to keep in mind that the flash storage baked onto devices is of an
entirely different class to the flash storage you buy on a USB key or
something. Phone storage has to perform well (it's where the OS lives) as well
as survive the lifetime of the phone with near constant use 24/7\. They need
something a bit higher quality than what you're used to so the price is
higher.

~~~
userbinator
That is a module with a connector and PCB, and also sold at a rather high
markup. Prices are actually quite a bit cheaper for the actual IC itself:

[http://en.chinaflashmarket.com/pricecenter/emmc](http://en.chinaflashmarket.com/pricecenter/emmc)

------
izacus
I love the 4:3 aspect ratio - after switching from iPad that was the thing
that bothered me the most on Nexus 7 and Nexus 10 models. They were either not
tall enough or too narrow for comfortable web browsing and reading (also,
holding N10 in portrait was pretty tiring due to weight balance).

So finally having a good 4:3 Android tablet is good news for readers :)

~~~
sliverstorm
That's fantastic news, I have been scouring the market for a good 4:3 Android
for months...

------
AdmiralAsshat
Sad to see no SD card slot. I know that's not Google's thing, but Asus and
Samsung have defied them in the past to include them in Nexus models and I was
hoping HTC would follow suit.

That said, I hope this sells well. HTC badly needs some success.

~~~
Sanddancer
Last year's nexus 5 didn't have an SD card slot either. They're pretty much a
dying breed at this point.

~~~
polshaw
No nexus has ever had an SD card slot [ED: since the nexus one!]. It's their
thing, to push people into the cloud.

>dying breed

Rubbish, quite the opposite: every (other) flagship android phone has one this
year: S5, One M8, LG G3, xperia Z3. Every windows tablet has one. Compare this
to the last round when it was pretty much just the S4.

~~~
nl
(New) Moto X doesn't.

~~~
nl
I assume by the down votes I'm wrong? I checked some reviews and they all say
it doesn't have one. Has it changed?

------
4ad
It has an arm64 CPU. It looks like this will be the first cheap, easily
obtainable and hackable (?) arm64 hardware out there.

I'm writing the arm64 Go compiler. I wonder if it's feasible to start testing
on this machine too (e.g. how open it really is, how hard is to get a sane
working environment, etc).

~~~
rwmj
Before I got my Mustang (:-) I was hacking on the OCaml arm64 compiler backend
using this technique. The article describes setting it up for Fedora. Follow
through the links for how to do this on SUSE and Debian. It's fairly
reasonable as a userspace dev environment.

[http://rwmj.wordpress.com/2013/12/22/how-to-run-
aarch64-bina...](http://rwmj.wordpress.com/2013/12/22/how-to-run-
aarch64-binaries-on-an-x86-64-host-using-qemu-userspace-emulation/)

~~~
4ad
Yes, I started with QEMU user emulation. It was so lame (lots of bugs in QEMU;
both related to unsupported instructions and other miscellany that affected
Go) that I just wrote my own arm64 emulator eventually (didn't take long, it's
a variant of Plan 9's [5kqv]i user space emulators, I forgot to mention that
all this work started on Plan 9). Now I have hardware but my emulator still
gets its use, it's a great debugger too.

------
taylorbuley
It bothers me that we've lost the meaning of "memory" in the technical
marketing of mobile gadgets.

"Memory: 16 GB & 32 GB." Google, of course, means storage.

~~~
Pinn2
At some point we'll have unified memory and storage anyway. Our brains are
already unified in our perception of memory, so I have no problem telling
people the storage amount as "memory".

~~~
KaoruAoiShiho
Our brains are not unified. Separating long and short memory makes a lot of
sense.

------
jbellis
Apple finally admitted that bigger phones are better. Looks like Google is
finally admitting that 4:3 is the right tablet aspect ratio.

I'm kind of curious what the secret sauce is that makes Google think they are
ready to sell a premium-priced tablet. Lollipop may be better than iOS 8 but
is that enough to overcome the app gap?

(Anecdata: my wife had her ipad mini stolen last week. We have 5 Android
devices in the house, but as long as Civilization is only available on iOS
this isn't a serious contender for a replacement.)

~~~
s9ix
I'm not quite sure the 'app gap' exists still, does it? Recently switched from
iPhone 5S > HTC One M8, and nothing reallllly I miss.

~~~
anigbrowl
It's a big problem for music apps. Android has not delivered low-latency
MIDI/audio up to now, allowing Apple to own that market (much like it did with
Mac v windows for a long time).

~~~
yincrash
To clarify, you are talking about music production apps? Android L introduced
new APIs to improve that, so hopefully it will improve soon.

~~~
anigbrowl
Yes. I was glad to see it has finally been addressed but realistically it will
take several years to close the gap, since people who have gotten used to
various iPad apps have little incentive to switch platform.

------
Bud
They're releasing a big expensive tablet in 2014 and the top-end storage size
is 32GB? Really?

~~~
freehunter
Well they _are_ a cloud company. They probably just expect you to not store
anything locally.

No company puts a good amount of storage in their device for a reasonable
price. It's a problem on par with battery life.

~~~
Trellmor
The Nexus 6 has 32 and 64GB options. I'm a bit disappointed that they don't
match this with the Nexus 9.

~~~
fatbat
Excitedly waiting for a new Android tablet but 32GB max is too little for that
price tag.

I suppose Google expects more photo/video taking on phones vs tablet hence
lower storage?

~~~
crwll
They might well release a 64GB version later. They released a 32GB version of
the N7 2012 some months after initial release and removed the 8GB version.

------
zmmmmm
This marks an interesting if subtle change in direction for Google. Suddenly
they are talking about productivity on their tablet and even including a
keyboard. Also recently we've seen massive upgrades to the Google Docs suite
of apps as well, after they long languished as almost comically useless on
Android for a long time. Once again, it makes me question whether Pichai
taking over has had the unexpected effect of boosting Android and making it
into their premier platform across a range of form factors instead of what
seemed before to be mainly pigeon holing it as a phone / small tablet platform
mainly for entertainment. Interesting times.

~~~
anigbrowl
Yeah, looks like they're aiming to attack Surface at the same time as iPad.
Might be time for an upgrade...

------
cwal37
I assume this is the real, official end of the dream that I will ever get the
case they initially showed off for my Nexus 10.

I enjoy the Nexus 10, but I really feel like I've kind of just been left in
the cold. Android updates haven't been kind to the device in my experience.

~~~
izacus
On the other hand, Android 5.0 was announced for 10 as well, even though I
agree, my 10 always felt like a bastard child of Nexus family.

~~~
lut4rp
Oh really? Source, please?

------
WildUtah
So is it confirmed that there's no new Nexus 7? What is the best new
alternative with some kind of clean Android mini tablet?

~~~
aetherson
I don't understand why Google is making a Nexus 9. It seems crazy. Doesn't
everyone understand at this point that 7-8" is the right size for a tablet?

Are they just of the impression that phablets will eat small tablets?

(I should say that of course there is SOME market for larger tablets out
there. If they were producing a Nexus 7 and a Nexus 9, that would make more
sense. But I thought that both expert consensus and sales were clear: the
market for small tablets is much bigger than the market for big tablets.
Unless you believe that small tablets are going to get replaced by phablets).

~~~
ktsmith
> Doesn't everyone understand at this point that 7-8" is the right size for a
> tablet?

I've grown to loathe the Nexus 7. It's got a nice weight and feel to it from a
hardware perspective but it feels too tall/thin in portrait and too short in
landscape. I'm much more likely to pick up my older iPad instead. The
performance of the 7 (second version) was also very disappointing. I'm
actually interested in seeing the Nexus 9 not only because it fits me a bit
better being a bit bigger but by going to 4:3 I think some of what I hate
about the 7 will be eliminated. That being said it doesn't have enough storage
so I probably won't get one.

~~~
Raphael
I only use landscape for videos. Portrait for text and apps looks good to me,
although I haven't tried other screen sizes.

~~~
ktsmith
Going back and forth between the iPad and the Nexus 7 probably influences my
opinion. The 7 is just underwhelming in many areas. I'm not a fan of the iPad
mini either though I prefer reading on it to the Nexus 7.

------
mattgreenrocks
Anyone have experience installing Linux on an Android tablet to use for
development work? I'd love to use it with tmux/vim to hack on stuff.

Is battery life worth it?

~~~
TwiztidK
A lot of people have used an SSH client on a tablet for development on a VPS
or other server.

There is a blog about it here:
[http://yieldthought.com/post/12239282034/swapped-my-
macbook-...](http://yieldthought.com/post/12239282034/swapped-my-macbook-for-
an-ipad)

~~~
atomi
RDP app on Android from Microsoft works great though with this Nexus 9 I would
hope they allow you to change the resolution on the RDP client side.

------
tdicola
I'm impressed this is even lighter than the current iPad air (although it
remains to be seen what happens with Apple's announcement tomorrow), and not
by a trivial amount--almost 50 grams lighter. I've been a happy Nexus 7 user
but am starting to feel I need a little bit bigger screen, and the 4:3 aspect
ratio is much nicer for web browsing.

~~~
YooLi
_" I'm impressed this is even lighter than the current iPad air"_

It's also smaller, sporting an 8.9" screen vs. the iPad Airs 9.7" screen.

------
Zigurd
I'm aware that Nexus devices have lacked SD card slots seemingly as a matter
of policy, but I still don't understand the logic of it for a tablet this
powerful. You can buy micro SD cards with mind boggling capacity now. All the
other specs are state of the art. And then you are limited to 32GB.

------
donniezazen
Where do you guys think Nexus 9 fits? I have gotten used to Nexus 7 for
reading and Nexus 10 for writing/media consumption reading graphically rich
stuff like magazine. Do you think Nexus 9 replaces both of those different
types of works.

~~~
harshreality
I think the onward march of phone sizes into the 6" range is cannibalizing the
market for small tablets, and 9-10" for tablets is the remaining sweet spot
between phones and laptops.

~~~
nilkn
Given the Nexus 6, I actually think this is too small. If I'm going to have a
six inch phone, I'd prefer a tablet that is upwards of 12". I think huge
tablets are currently an unexplored niche that could kick off just like big
phones did.

~~~
dragonwriter
> I think huge tablets are currently an unexplored niche that could kick off
> just like big phones did.

Huge tablets aren't exactly an unexplored niche; the Galaxy Note Pro 12.2 and
Microsoft Surface, and even a few bigger tablets, do exist.

~~~
nilkn
I wasn't aware of the Galaxy Note Pro 12.2. Thanks -- I'm not keen on
Samsung's products, but I do like to see the space being explored.

I guess I unintentionally excluded the Surface Pro 3 since it's so much more
than just a tablet.

------
imaginenore
Seems like a step back from Nexus 10.

------
davidw
My Nexus 7's battery went kaput, so this looks like it'd be a nice
replacement. Overall, I'm quite happy to use the Nexus stuff: the experience
is very consistent, and they get regular upgrades.

------
nutjob123
4:3 aspect ratio on an andriod tablet! This should be interesting.

------
superbaconman
What's up with keyboards that lack a right side ctrl key? Is it bad form to
type using right-ctrl or something? Can someone shed some light on this? :\

~~~
seanflyon
What would you remove from the keyboard to accommodate a right side ctrl key?

~~~
superbaconman
In this case the alt keys appear to be the size of two letter keys. We could
steal some room from there. Maybe I'm just too picky, it's a small form
factor.

------
benaiah
A bit suspicious that there's no resolution announced, especially considering
the Nexus 10 had its resolution advertised ad nauseam from the day it was
announced, and the Nexus 6 has its high resolution hyped up as well. It'll be
curious to see if they've pulled back on the resolution arms race in favor of
something like battery life or price range.

~~~
jtgeibel
There is a button to expand the tech specs and see additional details:

Display

    
    
      8.9" IPS LCD
      4:3 aspect ratio
      QXGA (2048x1536)
      Gorilla Glass 3
      Double tap to wake

~~~
benaiah
Ah, that's what that does. Didn't even realize it was a button until you said
so. Seems like they didn't want to draw attention to the resolution drop
(admittedly to a smaller screen) between the Nexus 10 and the Nexus 9.

~~~
tomgg
I throw these eye-candy Google websites into a text-only browser and start
/'ing; it is _way_ easier to find the info you're looking for.

------
stormcrowsx
> The 8.9" screen is big enough to work and watch on, but small enough to
> carry around in one hand.

Really I could carry that in one hand? That's amazing! Know what else I can
carry in one-hand? My fucking 17 inch macbook.

~~~
experimental-
That's a good point in a way. At that size (especially with the 4:3 screen
ratio) it's certainly uncomfortable to hold it like a phone, even with huge
hands. Ergo, screen size doesn't really matter that much (of course it matters
somewhat; think of the forces and you realize what affects torque) – you hold
it like an iPad Air, and the more interesting spec would be weight which I
couldn't find by glancing the product page.

~~~
obsurveyor
425g (WiFi) or 436 (LTE). You have to expand the tech specs to see it, which
isn't very obvious. The jewel looks like something you'd drag, not click.

