
Apple: Advancements in Game Controllers - tosh
https://developer.apple.com/wwdc20/10614
======
huhtenberg
Reading gamedev subs on reddit, I got a very strong impression that Macs are
generally being looked down upon and not considered worthy of porting to.

In part due to a significantly weaker hardware compared to Windows machines,
in part due to constantly changing API surface and breaking backwards
compatibility, and in part due to historical game-hostile stance of the
company stemming from Jobs' personal dislike towards having games on Mac.

Is this off or did I get the sentiments right?

~~~
jfkebwjsbx
It is spot on. Macs are less than 5% of the Steam audience, software now needs
notarization, developer tools cost money in the form of hardware, GPU drivers
are buggy (unless you use Metal and buy into Apple ecosystem), modern OpenGL
was abandoned years ago, etc. So developers only target macOS if the game gets
big enough.

From the point of view of gamers, it is annoying. The recent 32-bit support
drop killed a huge amount of macOS games. Now I have to bootcamp to play some
of my favorite games. The GPU performance is also quite bad due their fight
with NVIDIA.

~~~
naravara
> Macs are less than 5% of the Steam audience

Isn’t this one a bit of a chicken/egg situation?

~~~
mey
As a developer, you don't have much incentive to fix it yourself.

~~~
joshspankit
In fact, one could argue that you’re actually penalized for trying to fix it
yourself.

------
mensetmanusman
Why isn’t the ipad a portable console for TVs?

Why can’t you plug the iPad into an HDMI slot and use near-by iphones as
controllers?

~~~
micheljansen
I think this is exactly what Nintendo was thinking when it came up with the
Switch and it's pretty brilliant.

~~~
Malic
I have this daydream that there are some Apple engineers that looked at the
Switch and said, "Dammit. We could have done this."

------
Jyaif
The GameControllers API on macOS is completely useless. They forget to say it
in the documentation, but only a tiny fraction of game controllers are
supported, so you have to use a lower level API to have any level of
compatibility.

On iOS it's a different story. Only a tiny fraction of game controllers are
allowed to connect to iPhones in the first place, and this API supports them
all (1).

(1) They have deprecated support for game controllers that don't have
joysticks, so even made-for-iOS game controllers may stop working.

~~~
dsrw
XBox One and PS4 controllers have been supported on Mac and iOS since last
year. The situation was pretty grim before then, but things are much better
now.

~~~
mosselman
Wow I didn't realise this and I just tested my XBox Controller with Evoland
and Limbo and it just worked! Thank you! Now I can finally continue playing
these, as controlling them with touch was horrible

------
0xDEEPFAC
So apple reinvented SDL and made it less portable?

~~~
tobylane
SDL2 is a layer over Metal, or Vulkan, OpenGL, D3D and others.

~~~
0xDEEPFAC
It also abstracts out a ton of third party controllers

------
jmiskovic
As outsider I'm amazed how much work it is just to detect a button or to
vibrate the controller. That haptic diagram at 7:55 looks like satire. Compare
it with LOVE API which is as simple as it can be.
[https://love2d.org/wiki/love.joystick](https://love2d.org/wiki/love.joystick)

------
WoefullyInept
Apple is wasting its energy. All they know is they seem to make some decent
money from the crappy mobile gaming world, so they blindly think they'll be
able to leverage this.

------
qwerty456127
Why do we still use game pads anyway? Why not just put some sensors on the
fingers and the body itself and capture the motions?

~~~
BillinghamJ
For VR, that is pretty much what we do! For some higher-end stuff like the
Valve Index knuckles, you don't even need to hold the controllers - they strap
to your palm and track the position of each individual finger

~~~
qwerty456127
Why not do this for everything? Perhaps it could even replace ordinary
keyboards.

By the way I once tried playing a first-person shooter or a PS3 using its
gamepad - it felt like controlling an excavator (which is quite hard do fast
and agile enough to evade and shoot an enemy). I believe a VR-like sensor
could be as convenient as a mouse is.

~~~
NoPicklez
"once tried playing a first-person shooter or a PS3 using its gamepad"

Is this because you aren't used to using a gamepad? I know people who
exclusively use console gamepads and struggle to use a keyboard and mouse to
the same accuracy.

~~~
qwerty456127
AFAIK it's a well-known problem players using mice have a significant edge in
competition with game-pad users.

~~~
NoPicklez
You're absolutely correct, but that doesn't mean that playing on a gamepad is
difficult.

Just that it perhaps doesn't provide you with the accuracy of a mouse, that is
why they add in mitigating features such as aim assist.

In some areas its been a problem with PC players playing on a gamepad, to take
advantage of high refresh rates and FPS in conjunction with aim assist.

My point being that I have friends that have tried playing FPS games on a PC
and have seriously struggled. Not because it's difficult but because it was
new to them.

------
karmakaze
Weird studio over-production. The first speaker looked like old CGI _after_
cutting away from the cartoon.

