
Cycling to work through cavernous limestone mines turned into a business park - duck
https://boingboing.net/2019/05/22/watch-cycling-to-work-through.html
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CalRobert
Source video at
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePQsnhayam4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePQsnhayam4)
if you want to skip boingboing

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Breza
Reminds me of the old limestone mine where federal employees still maintain a
paper-based database system. Source:
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2014/03/22/sinkho...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2014/03/22/sinkhole-
of-bureaucracy)

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ptah
I wonder how much of this data got hacked and sold on dark web :) my guess is
nil

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Aromasin
I wonder how much data can be processed compared to a modern "hackable"
system? My guess is close to nil. How much of it gets lost? How much of the
paper is duplicated for backups? How much time is spent looking through
filling cabinets for relevant data? How is data transmitted - physically
mailed, or faxed, or scanned and emailed, which is hackable anyway? There are
costs to both practices.

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jacobush
How much useful data hides forever "lost" in "big data".

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mulmen
I'm not sure I follow.

Do you mean it's hard to find a single record out of many or that new insights
can be discovered in aggregate?

The former is simply not true, databases exist for this purpose. The latter
seems obvious.

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jacobush
I mean, gathering all kinds of junk may make you loose sight of what you
really are about. See for instance various self-criticism from within the
three letter agencies, about how operational capabilities were lost in favour
of hoovering up as much data as possible. Most of which is useless. When
compiling and processing data is very painful, you make sure you compile and
process the best data you can find.

I'm not saying we should go back to clay tablets or anything. I'm just saying
in any rapid technology transition, we risk loosing the good with the bad.

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mulmen
I don't think I agree with this line of thinking.

How can we determine data is "useless" if we do not analyze the data?

New technology may have good and bad aspects but that doesn't mean it prevents
us from doing what works.

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jazzyjackson
Analyzing the data becomes more difficult as you put quantity over quality wrt
how you're structuring data and where its coming from.

There's a database somewhere of Do Not Fly suspicious people, but how was it
compiled? Should we put any weight on these lists of names?

I think this is what OP was alluding to, when it is more painful to collect
and organize data, you make sure the data is worth collecting and organizing.

See also "Worse is Better"

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mulmen
I don’t agree that we have to make a trade off between quality and quantity of
data. That seems like a false choice to me.

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fitzroy
Not a business center, but if you ever get the chance to go to the The
Wieliczka Salt Mine just outside of Krakow, Poland don't miss it — absolutely
stunning (and easily accessible by local public transit).

Supposedly, it was one of the Tolkien's inspirations for the mines in the Lord
of the Rings. And because it's a salt mine, the air is very clean. They used
to send asthma sufferers into the mines as a form of therapy.

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tim333
Ooh fancy [https://www.bezoekkrakau.nl/bezienswaardigheden-
krakau/visit...](https://www.bezoekkrakau.nl/bezienswaardigheden-krakau/visit-
the-wieliczka-salt-mine/)

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pivo
I've been there, and if I remember correctly, what looks like glass on those
chandaliers is actually salt crystals.

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givehimagun
How do they handle the exhaust from vehicles inside the mines? I've seen cases
where they only allow electric vehicles with no exhaust inside facilities like
this.

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noobiemcfoob
You still need ventilation systems with electric vehicles. A lot of stuff
produces particulates or vapors that need to be vented out.

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jaclaz
Actually you need ventilation also for the actual humans.

A common "standard" for mines/tunnelling is:

3 Cubic meters/minute per worker

4 cubic meters/minute per diesel HP (calculated on the max power output of the
engines)

Electric vehicles (battery powered) are usually not considered as they
normally represent a fraction of the power involved in the
construction/digging.

The large machines that are electrically powered (via cable/wire) are not
included as they do not produce exhaust fumes nor particles/vapours, but they
may be considered in some cases for the amount of heat they produce.

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nmeofthestate
Map here, giving you an idea of the size of the place:
[https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/25700-springfield-u...](https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/25700-springfield-
underground/)

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dade_
I think it was in Suarez's book 'Kill Decision' where they went to one of
these facilities to try to hide from drones. Great book, but I didn't realize
these facilities already existed.

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vonnieda
Fun fact: Kansas City, MO is full of these caves. You can go play paintball
and laser tag there: [http://jaegers.com/](http://jaegers.com/)

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mc32
Looks like a datacenter here would have more cred than that datacenter “in the
catacombs of Paris” we read about couple of weeks ago.

Article says it's mostly warehouses but given that temp, looks like it would
work well for Datacenters. Do datacenters in general use geothermal energy for
cooling?

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Patrick_Devine
It would definitely be beneficial for AC, but electricity is still more
expensive in Missouri than a place like Washington state or Montana. You might
be better off in a colder climate with cheaper electricity.

Given its central location in the middle of the country, you may have benefits
for having low-ish average latency from both coasts, but I'm not sure how
close the mine is to any long haul internet backbone.

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jessaustin
I suspect that to get to the coasts you'll route through either Chicago or
Dallas... neither seems ideal.

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js2
An older article with some more details:

[https://www.news-
leader.com/story/news/business/2015/03/16/s...](https://www.news-
leader.com/story/news/business/2015/03/16/springfield-underground-rare-
vacancy/24834597/)

It's about 5 million square feet, or 115 acres. An even larger facility is in
Kansas City:

[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2015-02-04/welcome-t...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2015-02-04/welcome-
to-subtropolis-the-business-complex-buried-under-kansas-city)

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TACIXAT
This is the direction I hope the Boring Company goes in. Since underground
temperature is so well regulated, subterranean structures may have some good
applications as climate change continues to progress.

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owenwil
This seems like an incredibly good place for a data center, particularly given
it already even comes with multiple fibre uplinks...and incredibly low
temperatures.

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cstrat
No one has mentioned it here, but what is on the above ground side of these
caverns? Is it national parkland or is it urban?

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jessaustin
It's in town, but in a fairly open part of town:

[https://goo.gl/maps/aryzGANrp6Yjh35z8](https://goo.gl/maps/aryzGANrp6Yjh35z8)

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dmix
He notes in the video there is no cellphone or radio but they do have internet
coverage in most parts.

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quickthrower2
I wonder what protections they have for fire. Would it be too hard to escape?
Maybe they rely on sprinklers.

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Fricken
I wonder if the stone is solid enough to develop for climbing. That would be
cool.

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WorldMaker
Limestone can be on the "softer" side (part of why it formed natural caves so
easily) so that might not be the greatest idea, at the very least for
liability reasons.

I heard Louisville, KY's "Mega Cavern" added climbing walls, but I believe
they are the usual sort of indoor "adventure park" climbing walls.

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markstos
Louisville has an underground bike park and electric fat bike tours:
[https://louisvillemegacavern.com/attractions/electric-
bike-t...](https://louisvillemegacavern.com/attractions/electric-bike-tour)

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WorldMaker
I've heard the zipline is a lot of fun. Keep hoping for a group outing excuse
to visit the Mega Cavern. Usually if I'm by myself and thinking of heading
that direction I'm more likely to wander the Zoo.

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TheRealPomax
My only concern is the environmental cost of keeping all that air clean. And
clean air itself, I suppose.

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gen3
I would imagine the energy used to push air in from the surface is
significantly less then the impact that massive AC units have.

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ape4
The Springfield Underground - something The Simpsons didn't predict.

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quickthrower2
I was thinking this would be a great prop for a simpsons episode.

