
Duplicate your House Keys with your Phone - slackpad
http://shloosl.com/
======
ck2
Linking a picture of your house keys to your house address - what could
possibly go wrong...

~~~
fatbat
My immediate thoughts as well. Perhaps a different scenario.

eg- Anyone can easily just take their friends key, snap a pic and have creep
access to their house/car/locker/safe/etc.

I am not sure if this kind of easy service is a good one to have around. Do
not forget real-world security too!

~~~
eridius
The "Security" page addresses this very concern:

> Keyjacking is not allowed

> Worried someone's going surreptitiously copy your key with our service? Not
> to worry. We don't accept surreptitious or flyby pictures of keys. The key
> must be held in the person's hand, with their fingers visible. In any case,
> we require a credit card to ship the key, so in case of fraud, identity can
> be traced back. We respond swiftly to all inquiry from law enforcement
> agencies.

~~~
NuZZ
The victim wouldn't even know the key was cut by this service. So the
friend/plumber/handyman or whoever could just take the picture, get the key
cut and then raid the place without anyone knowing.

Seems legit.

~~~
namdnay
Indeed. In Germany for example, employees of this company could be tried as
accomplices to the crime if it was found that they had duplicated a house key
without asking for proof of residence.

------
kapilkale
Someone pitched me this idea a few months ago and I urged him to pursue it.
I'm glad to see that it's being done by a super technical team who seem to
know what they're doing.

Here's why I'm so excited:

1\. Shloosl solves a small but acute problem that nearly everyone in the
country has.

2\. It's a big FU to a fragmented and unevolving couple billion dollar
industry. I don't want to find a locksmith or go to Home Depot. I just want a
duplicate key. And I don't care whether I pay $1.50 for it or $10 for it.

3\. It's going to have some interesting implications on physical security in
society. Locks are already useless to any unskilled criminal with a $100
lockpicking gun. But now, any clown with an iPhone can take a picture of a set
of keys and have a working copy sent to anyone in the country within days. I
certainly hope the security industry responds with something good.

I'd like to think the solution is a better kind of lock, but I don't know.
Credit cards have been vulnerable in the same way for a while, but the
networks or merchants essentially insure fraudulent transactions so it hasn't
resulted in a real problem for people.

Either way, I'm looking forward to trying this out this weekend.

~~~
ics
> I certainly hope the security industry responds with something good.

Security industry? As you said, it's unlikely they'll be surprised. I'd say if
it catches on then we're much more likely to see legislation against these
sorts of services unless they enforce valid IDs– hell, give it a month and I'm
sure someone could find a way to spin it as a DMCA issue. That seems a whole
lot easier to them than _actually trying to solve the problem_ , which is that
the locks we use are fundamentally insecure.

All in all though I do think it's a great idea, and I hope it does happen. I
might even give it a try since I just welcomed a new roommate and it turns out
I didn't have as many spare keys as I thought I did...

------
AlexMuir
This exact concept was done very well by a HNer two years ago:

<http://dittokey.com/>

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2391571> \- Show HN: DittoKey - Door
keys copied from a photo app.

For my money it's a cool idea, but an overtechnical and imperfect solution to
a rare and cheap problem. Keys are cut in minutes, cheaply, with professional
guidance at tens of thousands of places around the world.

~~~
LogicX
iPhone app no longer in the store? Is this one dead?

~~~
AlexMuir
Founder went on to found CircuitHub (YC backed)

------
xlevus
Does this really solve a problem? The only time I've needed to get keys cut
was when I've either lost a key or moved house and needed a copy immediately.

Why would I risk my security and have to wait for the mailman? I can get a key
cut at one of 10 shops near my house, door to door in 15 minutes.

And in the case of a lost key, I'd replace the barrel of the lock too.

~~~
tomchuk
Nail on the head. I can only remember one or two occasions where I've needed
to copy a key and waiting a couple days for delivery would have been
practical.

That said, I had a clever idea on my way to work this morning.

They've already got automated kiosks[1] all over the place, why not network
those, give customers a login and let them save their keys to a centralized
location. You'd then be able to get a copy of any of your keys without having
the original present. You could even share keys with another account -
visiting friend, whatever, so they can get a copy cut in their hometown. No
need to save any info besides login credentials and keys (ie. nothing that
could allow someone to trace a key back to a lock via a billing address).

[1] <http://www.minutekey.com/>

------
eps
Oh, this is _so_ going to be abused for copying other people's keys. You can
now even Photoshop the "DONT COPY" embossing away. Very cool.

~~~
Moto7451
I've never had a problem having "DO NOT COPY" keys copied. When I was the
manager of a store I had to get multiple copies of the door keys and case keys
at various times working there. OSH, Home Depot, etc didn't ask me any
questions, just made my copies and sent me on my way.

~~~
kleiba
Interesting. I once tried to get a copy of a key to a security lock (a fact I
didn't know) in Germany. The guy in this tiny little shop (which I'm sure
would otherwise be happy for every customer) had one look at the key, then
handed it back to me straight away. He wouldn't do it.

Maybe I should have just gone to a couple of other shops?

~~~
6d0debc071
Same sort of experience in the UK, when trying to get a copy of my front door
key made. You needed the original barcode that came with the keys to order
copies.

~~~
emeidi
That's probably the reason why a lot of keys here in Switzerland nowadays have
chips on them as well.

------
pseudonym
I'm actually more worried about this[1]. I don't want my key and associated
information stored with bank-grade cryptography, I want it deleted after it's
cut and sent out. It's easy enough to change a password if you get hacked,
it's slightly more difficult to change a credit or debit card but it's more
hassle in "changing all the places it's used" than anything else. But changing
locks is a huge pain, and not always possible to do depending on what the key
is for. I'd far rather take a picture of a key, save it somewhere secure
myself, and send it in when I need a copy made. Having both my shipping
address _and_ the key to that address stored on a remote server is
particularly worrying to me.

1\. <http://shloosl.com/#Security>

~~~
philip1209
In general I agree for the sake of security, but in all fairness, the types of
locks for which they are duplicating keys are pickable in under 60 seconds. It
is essentially a waste of time to go through making a duplicate key - it is
quite a sobering moment for me when I realized how easily I could defeat the
locks on my house.

High security locks whose keys need protection, such as BEST Locks, are
probably outside the scope of this service, and are not normally available to
consumers anyways.

~~~
choult
There is a vast difference in the number of people who can pick locks and the
number of people with cameras.

~~~
drharris
Not when you correct it by the subset of people who would consider breaking
into your house. Lockpicking and bumping are very easy, even for the amateur
criminal.

------
olefoo
I had two, almost simultaneous reactions to this.

On the one hand "oooh, that's useful, I need another set for loaning to cat-
sitters."

On the other hand, "Keys are worthless now!"

The gripping hand is that keys have been worthless for quite some time, but we
continue to use them. Whether out of habit, or because they feel sufficient.

~~~
nextstep
If keys are useless, what are we using them for?

They're clearly not useless.

~~~
olefoo
Useless, in the sense that they are less than adequately effective; a
reasonably able locksmith can open most barrel locks in seconds. If a criminal
puts it in mind to acquire the skills, opening the locks is a small part of
thievery, getting around the alarm is probably more of a concern.

~~~
anxx
I don't buy this reasoning. Yes, if someone really wanted to get in, they
could probably learn to pick locks. But that doesn't mean locks are useless -
now we reduced the pool of potential criminals to people who 1) know to pick
locks 2) have been hanging around the area enough to know when the neighbors
are away and unlikely to notice anything suspicious while a stranger is
picking the locks 3) take greater risks. This is a significant improvement
from anybody who saw that the car wasn't parked and decided to waltz in.

------
namdnay
You have to be very careful about where you provide this service. Duplicating
a "secure" (i.e. non simple) key without asking for proof of residence is
against the law in some countries.

------
ChrisNorstrom
Now all I need is a lockable sheath to keep my key in so no one can take a
photo of it.

Actually... Damn... <http://www.google.com/patents/US7181939>. Similar idea is
already invented and patented.

Although, it isn't anything like I imagined it would be. My design's a lot
more practical and only 1 piece, so the patent won't get in the way but I
don't think it's something consumers might want to put up with. Having to
enter a combination to use your house or car keys each and every time just
doesn't seem worth it. Then again... fear is the easiest thing to sell.

What do you guys think? Would you buy a combination lock key sheath for
$19.99?

------
wavesounds
This is a pretty dangerous website, just because you can do something doesn't
mean you should.

A unscrupulous car mechanic could save up a bunch of pictures of keys then
sell them online anonymously to random people with fake credit cards. You
wouldn't even need the peoples address just google map the neighborhood and
look for their cars.

It'd be a lot harder to sneak off from work to the hardware store then just
take a picture of their key.

This isn't even a real problem people have.

~~~
MichaelApproved
You're over thinking this. Anyone with access to the car can open the glove
box and look at the address on the registration. They could take a picture of
the registration in no time.

~~~
VLM
1) If you have a picture of the key for the bike rack on my car, you don't
need to do photometric analysis of the key, all you need to do is read "N027"
handily stamped onto the key, and "Thule" silk screened onto the bike rack.

2) Geocoded pix in the exif data? So a pix of the bike rack key taken while
I'm standing in my driveway is easily accurate enough to find my driveway.

------
indrax
I predict a Facebook meme urging people to post pictures of their keys.

------
downandout
Forgive me if it's already being done, but I would love to see this capability
at my local Home Depot or maybe in an app for a locksmith service. Store pics
of my keys on a secure server at the provider, and if I ever lose a key, I hit
a button and it's made for me. Could be a whole new revenue stream for them.

~~~
wavesounds
Or someone steals your phone and then everything else you own...

Edit: I'm assuming this is idea was relating to an online business. You could
always give a copy of your keys to your friends if your willing to drive/walk
somewhere

~~~
downandout
Have them require ID to pick up the key. Or have the app require a picture of
the person(s) authorized to pick up keys and store it along with the key
photos on the server. Everyone is talking about the security issues, but these
are far from insurmountable problems.

~~~
VLM
"Have them require ID to pick up the key."

This is also known as registered mail. The killer problem is the post office
is 10x as inconvenient as just going across the street to the hardware store.

------
lucaspiller
> More convenient than a hardware store

I'm not too convinced by that, the only times I've had to get keys cut in the
last year were because:

\- I moved into a new apartment and my landlord only had one set of keys. I
didn't always want to be home when my housemates wanted to get in so the first
thing we did was get new keys cut.

\- I lent a key to my landlord to do repairs, and they didn't return it. I
borrowed one of my housemate's key and got a copy cut (protip: copying a copy
isn't a great idea) straight away.

I guess maybe it's different in the US, but over here I go past at least five
locksmiths on my way to work. Other than that, cool idea :)

(My landlord isn't too great BTW)

------
futhey
I'm not sure I want the ease of copying keys from a photo to be common
knowledge.

------
csmattryder
So i'm about to move out next week, I take a snapshot of the key (that's in my
possession right now), pay with a prepaid Visa, and take next occupants stuff.

Easily s/apartment/office.

Flawless, proof that just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

~~~
perlgeek
Exactly the same thing can be done by visiting a hardware store, or any other
store that makes copies of keys.

~~~
csmattryder
True, but I'm then on CCTV, shown to be getting a key cut. I could pay someone
to go get it cut, but there's an additional accomplice.

Though, the same could be said for a PO box delivery with an anonymous pick-
up.

I think at this rate, I'll just break into my old apartment! ;)

~~~
raimue
Woah, are you just saying you like the creepy CCTV everywhere for good?

Also, you could have copied the key any time you lived there. They won't store
videos such a long time. Even if they get data that you copied some key, they
still don't know which key. Machines used in a home depot or a mall are dumb,
they do not work with key numbers and can't store them.

------
kmfrk
Honest question, is it possible we are approaching a future where metal keys
will be rendered obsolete by 3D printers and low-light phone cameras?

Maybe Lockitron is much more than just a convenience.

Just a thought.

~~~
VLM
Be careful when defining obsolete.

To protect one site they're already obsolete except for some pretty exotic
high end locks.

Metal keys will never be obsolete from a police perspective because here's
"burglary tools" to bust people, and patterns to discern, and a piece of metal
evidence with fingerprints, and ordering history, and shipping history... They
may be useless for protecting one site, but they're a great tool for busting a
serial burglar who's done it a dozen times.

------
notdonspaulding
The obvious solution to the "this will be abused by creeps" problem is for the
website to generate a page with some random token on it that must be in the
same picture as the key.

------
lignuist
Next service: share your keys on Twitter and Facebook.

~~~
lucb1e
New: Login with Facebook!

At least half the people will not mind the permission to post things for them.
When pleaserobme.com catches wind of this, they're gonna get a lot of renewed
media attention!

------
eridius
Sounds pretty neat. But where the heck did they come up with the name
"Shloosl"? There's no way I'm ever going to remember that one.

~~~
anxx
Schlüssel means 'key' in German.

------
BenSS
Awesome. I had prototyped this exact same thing out, but was concerned about
the security and liability implications.

------
marvwhere
sooo now i only need a picture of my nemesis/crush to get in his/her
apartment? sounds good...all the fun i can have...

...and totally not crepy...

WHAT THE FUCK?

one more reason to get a $70 lock where the key is not that easy to reproduce!
and hopefully they stick to the normal rules and ask for the certificate when
u want a copy. that would make it a bit safer.

------
rtcoms
Now the just need to attach it with face detection which require a live entity
and not just a photo of the person .

------
TomAnthony
For anyone wondering about the name, it seems to be a web-two-ification of the
German word for key: Schlüssel.

------
padwan
How do they get the correct size?

~~~
padwan
Found the answer at <http://shloosl.com/#more-tips>

"For now, we accept only two types of keys. Chances are your house key is one
of these."

~~~
ryan-c
I assume they're supporting Schlage SC1 and Kwikset KW1 keys which fit the two
most common types of five pin locks in the US.

Both of these keys have a pin coding - each of the five pins has a value from,
IIRC, 1 to 9. With a little practice, one can decode keys visually in a few
seconds, I can't imagine it being hard to write an image processing algorithm
to do it.

~~~
EvanAnderson
I think you're right on the money.

I've decoded keys that I've seen people carrying on rings on their belts (and,
in many cases, the pin values are stamped right on the key). I don't carry
keys where people can see them, but I'm a little bit paranoid. With the advent
of this service it probably pays to be a bit more paranoid, since somebody
could take a picture of your key, send $5, and get a copy w/o knowing anything
about pins and tumblers.

~~~
ics
I think I just found a new people-watching side hobby. Next on HN: Burgling
across Brooklyn as hipster keychains "pic-pocketed" en-masse...

I'm really looking forward to when I get the time to rig up my door so I can
use my yubikey instead. Much easier than all the metal keys I have to carry
around now, and much less damaging to my pockets and belt-loops.

------
martin1b
Duplicate your credit card with your phone. Just take a picture of it, upload
and ....

------
tzury
FYI, Schlissel is "Key" in German (and Yiddish).

It seems like the name Shloosl inspired by it.

