
Ask HN: How does one create a fake identity? - filliamhmuffman
I imagine it depends on how this identity is to be used, and what sorts of scrutiny it must hold up to, so detailed information on the topic would be much appreciated.
======
1337biz
Let me be the first to welcome those fine representatives of three letter
agencies to this discussion. I hope you enjoy your stay and enjoy watching the
process of having turned almost a whole industry against you.

Thanks to your "freedom enhancement techniques" even (most likely) innocent
citizens are by now considering using methods previously reserved for high
level criminals.

~~~
jmduke
When you use fake-quotes like "freedom enhancement techniques" and someone
discovers that no three-letter agency or government organization has ever
actually said such a thing -- that such a quote isn't exactly grounded in
reality (Google only turned up
[http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/01/31/832543/-President-P...](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/01/31/832543/-President-
Palin-renews-and-expands-enhanced-interrogation-program), which was satire),
they're inclined to believe "Hey, if they weren't entirely truthful with this
aspect of their argument, maybe I shouldn't bother checking out the rest of
the stuff they said."

Call it seeing the forest for the strawman; either way, there's enough of an
argument to be made by sticking to the facts.

~~~
gregw134
Oh come off it--he's just using quotation marks to emphasize sarcasm.

~~~
timbre
It is frustrating that quotation marks have come to have two, almost perfectly
opposite meanings (the traditional "words someone actually said" and the new
"words no one _actually_ said"). I guess the battle against the new usage is
lost though.

~~~
charlus
I think it's interesting - Proust talks about this, an intonation to show
detachment.

 _As he spoke I noticed, what had often struck me before in his conversations
with my grandmother’s sisters, that whenever he spoke of serious matters,
whenever he used an expression which seemed to imply a definite opinion upon
some important subject, he would take care to isolate, to sterilise it by
using a special intonation, mechanical and ironic, as though he had put the
phrase or word between inverted commas, and was anxious to disclaim any
personal responsibility for it; as who should say “the ’hierarchy,’ don’t you
know, as silly people call it._

~~~
triplesec
V interesting. I found the reference (please add next time, it's useful) here,
and fortunately it was that easy to find:
[http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8g8rAEkl5-UC&lpg=PA92&ots...](http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8g8rAEkl5-UC&lpg=PA92&ots=tqWf0A44jq&dq=As%20he%20spoke%20I%20noticed%2C%20what%20had%20often%20struck%20me%20before%20in%20his%20conversations%20with%20my%20grandmother%E2%80%99s%20sisters%2C%20that%20whenever%20he%20spoke%20of%20serious%20matters%2C%20whenever%20he%20used%20an%20expression%20which%20seemed%20to%20imply%20a%20definite%20opinion%20upon%20some%20important%20subject%2C%20he%20would%20take%20care%20to%20isolate%2C%20to%20sterilise%20it%20by%20using%20a%20special%20intonation%2C%20mechanical%20and%20ironic%2C%20as%20though%20he%20had%20put%20the%20phrase%20or%20word%20between%20inverted%20commas%2C%20and%20was%20anxious%20to%20disclaim%20any%20personal%20responsibility%20for%20it%3B%20as%20who%20should%20say%20%E2%80%9Cthe%20%E2%80%99hierarchy%2C%E2%80%99%20don%E2%80%99t%20you%20know%2C%20as%20silly%20people%20call%20it.&pg=PA92#v=onepage&q&f=false)

------
Sukotto
Traditionally there are five methods to get a fake identity:

1) Work for a governmental agency that has a reason to give you one.
[[https://www.cia.gov/careers](https://www.cia.gov/careers)]

2) Enter a witness-protection program by testifying against murderous
criminals

3) Buy one on the black market. This can be as simple as a barely-passable
driver's licence for underage drinkers, or as sophisticated as a complete set
of papers (birth cert, etc) forged by a master
[[http://www.ted.com/talks/sarah_kaminsky.html](http://www.ted.com/talks/sarah_kaminsky.html)]

4) Steal (or trade) someone else's established identity

5) Create an identity for a child who died shortly after birth.

To do this last one you:

\- Ask the birth registration office for a copy of the birth certificate

\- Use that to get a national id number (like a SSN in the US or SIN in
Canada)

\- Use those to open a bank account

\- Use those to get a credit card (probably a secured card meaning you have to
keep a positive balance on the card)

\- Buy a course at a driving school. Let them get everything ready to take the
driving exam and as a bonus you get to use their car. They also add legitimacy
by implicitly vouching for your identity

\- Get a driver's licence

\- Use everything you already acquired above to get a passport

(Good luck finding such a child though)

~~~
driverdan
The dead baby method has been "dead" for a long time.

------
falcolas
On the flip side of these fine folks, you can obtain a real new identity with
relative ease, and totally legally. Of course, this will not prevent someone
truly dedicated to locating you, but it will make it much more difficult.

    
    
        0) Pay off all of your debt
        1) Go to a small town
        2) Legally change your name
        3) Regenerate all of your essential documents, with your new name
        4) Move to a big city
        5) Change your lifestyle entirely (use the internet only where necessary, use cash wherever possible, don't log back into facebook/hacker news, etc)
        6) Don't give someone a reason to come looking for you (i.e. pay your taxes regularly, don't become a missing person, etc)

~~~
sneak
This doesn't really work, as your SSN will be the same, and your credit
reports will show your name change and full address history.

~~~
falcolas
If you don't apply for credit, it's harder to pull a credit report on you. The
public record portion of a credit report is also not comprehensive - they only
obtain easily gathered public information (and are usually only interested in
bankruptcy and felony findings). For example, my wife's name change is not
recorded in her credit report. Hence the small city, and the recommendation to
use cash, not debt. The alternate names section typically relies on you
obtaining credit under the new name, using the same SSN.

Your SSN is only going to really be used for a very specific set of instances
- most frequently job related (and then protected by a number of laws).

There will always be a trail for someone to follow, but as long as you don't
have someone with the resources of the government looking for you, the trail
will be very hard to follow.

~~~
sneak
> There will always be a trail for someone to follow, but as long as you don't
> have someone with the resources of the government looking for you, the trail
> will be very hard to follow.

I think you vastly underestimate private, paid access to these databases.
Lexis-Nexis comes to mind, for one.

------
MWil
The first thing to do is realize that there are only a few limited situations
in which you are ever legally obligated to tell the truth (or to say anything
at all).

Allow that to empower you and the truth will literally set you free.
Truthfully, you are almost always free to lie. Find those boundaries and
tiptoe without crossing them.

I imagine that even if you are able to take advantage of some of the other
advice in this thread about gaining actual documents and whatnot, you are more
likely to get caught if you aren't willing to stretch the truth or lie.

"Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center."

I really enjoy watching fox news or listening to rush limbaugh and I find that
the longer I take it in, the more I learn how to hone this practical skill.

~~~
clarkm
I agree with you, but I don't think you should consider the act of using
multiple identities itself to be lying. Or at least, calling it that seems
harsh. Do actors lie when they use stage names? Are authors lying when they
publish under pen names?

Sure, some may use nicknames or professional names because they're more
marketable. But others use pseudonyms for privacy protection. They want to
compartmentalize their own identity, and I consider that a perfectly valid
purpose.

~~~
dedward
Sure it's valid.. and in the US, if I'm not mistaken, it's expressly legal to
call yourself whatever you want - as long as you aren't doing so to commit a
crime.

So during day to day business and life, you can call yourself whatever you
want. Others can insist on identification if it's important to them, and that
gets trickier.. but using a pen-name on a book or a hotel reservation is no
different than using a fake name at starbucks while waiting for your coffee.

Forging documents is of course illegal, so that puts a crimp on things - but
there is no particular reason that you are required to use your "real" name
except when dealing with government documents (and things that rely on them)

------
Amadou
Here's one anecdote - a woman I know has a very youthful appearance.
Inevitably when she has to provide ID, the person reading her ID will exclaim
that she can't really be XX years old. They think it is a compliment, but it
enrages my friend because that person has now disclosed her actual age to
anyone near by, including any acquaintances that might be accompanying her.

So, she asked me to create a fake-id to use in such situations. We made a
really low quality id - a laminated "state id" (not even a driver's license)
from one of the more obscure states a thousand miles away from her residence.
Completely ginned up, not even intended to look like the actual id from that
state. The information on the ID was correct, except that her age was listed
as ten years younger then she really is.

She's been happily using that fake-id in those circumstances where they are
just being nosey and there isn't a legal requirement for an id. Being nosey
means they feed that information into databases at companies like Blue Kai.
The result is that she has a shadow identity in those systems that is exactly
10 years younger. If you look her up on a website like spokeo there are
typically two entries - one for her true age and one of the fake-id age.

Anyway, the lesson I learned from all that is GIGO - these commercial
profiling databases are no better than the quality of information that goes
into them and the controls on that information are no better than a minimum
wage clerk taking applications at Costco or the local gym franchaise.

If you intend to use a fake-id simply as a way to compartmentalize the
pervasive tracking rather than commit fraud it does not take much. You don't
need a birth certificate from a deceased child, or to bribe someone at the
passport office. Just get yourself a fake-id like that available near most
colleges and start using it - most of the people you show it too couldn't care
less about its authenticity, even if they knew how to check they don't bother
because it's not their job.

The one bit of tactical advice I have is to look up name frequencies and pick
ethnically appropriate names that are very common. That will help to make your
information blend in with all the other people with the same name.

------
VLM
Why do you need "a" identity as in singular, why can't you have multiple
identities, and it seems easier to adjust your lifestyle to require minimal
identification rather than to get "a" new identity.

You can go to immense efforts to subscribe to 2600 magazine without the bank
or the mailman or the FBI knowing who you really are. That's all very
impressive in a way. But for the overall system, it turns out to be a heck of
a lot easier, cheaper, safer, and just plain ole better to walk to the nearest
B+N and buy an issue with cash.

This seems to come up over and over WRT identity. Changing how you use it is
simpler than changing the identity itself.

I've heard some apartment rental companies are a pain, running all manner of
checks and requiring all kinds of paperwork. Then again your average illegal
unzoned HOA denied landlord simply wants cash for a "good tenant". And the guy
who sleeps over at his friends apartment couch for cash as a roommate has no
documentation at all.

Gearing up to use a grocery store loyalty card with a fake id for your fake
checking account at the fake address with the fake loyalty card to save 15
cents on an apple takes a lot of work and risk and money, or ... you could
just pay cash at the full price at the farmers market, probably cheaper than
the supermarket anyway.

The outside the box thinking will help a lot more than a magical set of
documents ever will. And I don't even have any use for this stuff, imagine
what I could do if I put my mind to it.

~~~
rdtsc
I think in light of what we found out (or some who already knew) about our
government's monitoring patterns, going out of ones way not be noticed is ...
what will make you be noticed.

Over time defaults change. It used to be for example, that having a some silly
Facebook account was a new and interesting thing, now not having one is
perhaps odd.

Buying a car in cash was strange perhaps, you know walking in with a duffel
bag bag full of $50s might end up them calling someone to report you. (War on
Drugs and/or War on Tax Evaders etc etc).

2600 is probably not going to keep being sold in B+N. B+N might stop existing
soon as people stop buying books made from dead trees.

> And the guy who sleeps over at his friends apartment couch for cash as a
> roommate has no documentation at all.

But do you want someone like that sleeping on your couch? We have been
brainwashed to think those that put privacy high on the list are up to
something illegal. They are criminals perhaps...

~~~
VLM
I think by "change how you use identity" I mean a lifestyle change not a minor
procedure change.

As per your example, most people with no identity issues tend to walk into the
car dealer and buy a car with a loan and the dealer runs a credit check on
them before they even get to test drive (happened to me...). I agree, walking
in with a duffel bag of cash is not going to work.

On the other hand, why not buy a "decent" project car for cash from a private
citizen, then spend cash at car shops upgrading it to a quite nice hot rod?

Or the meta question of, why buy a car? If a decent fake ID is so expensive,
and the cost of detection is so high, why not just pay a cabbie or live in NYC
and not own a car?

The startup lesson here, if any, is optimize the big picture, then once that
is done, work on optimizing the little picture stuff.

If the cost, both financial and risk, of having a car while remaining private
is very high, then don't have a car.

On the other hand, as far as I know, fake profiles on facebook are no big
deal, just put enough up not to be suspiciously empty. One important datapoint
is I'm not operating under a fake ID, and I had a FB account years and years
ago back when it was new and just opened to the public, it was a total waste
of time, so after awhile I deleted it, and absolutely no one cares. Its right
up there with being one of those guys who doesn't own a TV and tells everyone
about it all the time. So a guy operating under a fake identity has at least
one anecdote that at least one guy with a real identity found not having a FB
account to be completely totally unimportant to modern living.

People who discuss living outside the identity system never seem to mention
our explosively growing illegal population. This stuff has all been figured
out, if you're willing to learn spanish and be friendly. If a hispanic looking
dude can get away with calling himself an illegal, and everything turns out
OK, then I can probably call myself a German illegal, or whatever. Germans
have pretty good records and might cooperate with the locals... How about my
becoming a south african illegal? That would probably work.

------
olefoo
On top of all the other steps, you'll want to get cosmetic surgery to alter
your face to match the new identity.

In the US at least the FBI has a program in collaboration with every state DMV
to perform facial recognition on drivers licenses applications. This has been
used to catch people who tried to generate fake identities to escape sex-
offender registration for instance. [1]

If your new identity is going to be vulnerable to someone posting your picture
to facebook, it's not strong enough.

1\.
[http://www.registerguard.com/rg/news/local/29978205-75/snow-...](http://www.registerguard.com/rg/news/local/29978205-75/snow-
aiken-court-sex-waters.html.csp)

~~~
cskau
I imagine you can get away with a lot by simply using a new photo each time.
Facial recognition is still far from perfect, while matching two instances of
the same photo is trivial.

------
aTMoZFeaR
There used to be, a few years ago, an onion site relating exactly to this
topic, they had a wiki-style setup with everything you would need to get this
operation done and even where to obtain the resources needed for it.

OR so I heard..

------
panarky
According to an interview with the CEO of Atlantis, a competitor to Silk Road,
they have many vendors who sell fake identity documents.

[http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1fwi48/im_the_ceo_of_a...](http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1fwi48/im_the_ceo_of_an_online_underground_black_market/)

------
onetimeonly
Source: at 17 I was running a black-hat hacker collective and had, through a
series of bad choices, got pretty deep into the 'real-world' side of that
business: fraud. The day after my 19th birthday my house was raided by the US
Secret Service and the UK Serious Organised Crime Agency in a worldwide
coordinated swoop that took in dozens of loosely affiliated people. I have
since completely rebuilt my life, so I don't mind anonymously sharing this.

Stealing an identity is trivially easy. Society revolves around relationships
of trust between organisations and individuals, and the trust runs amazingly
deep. The basic information you need to do it is publicly available: date of
birth, mother's maiden name (on the birth certificate and parents' marriage
certificate respectively, copies available on request from the records
office).

Carrying out the ID theft takes resources and balls. You'll need to be able to
manufacture ID documents, or have access to someone who does. Nowadays you can
buy them on one of the onion dark markets. Generally you want a driving
license, as this is the easiest to forge form of ID that gets you complete
access. Banks, governments, etc. will accept it.

Sadly, making driving licenses is not too hard - document security is pretty
weak. You'll need to make yourself some ultra-high resolution scans, trace the
entire design in illustrator, and then get hold of some printing equipment.
You usually want to print on teslin
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teslin_(material)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teslin_\(material\))),
and laminate with a high-quality laminator. UV seals can be easily replicated
by hacking an epson printer to use modified cartridges with UV pigments
injected into them. Holograms can also be replicated by dusting your laminate
with interference pigments and reverse-printing in clear ink to fix the
design. It can all be done on commodity hardware.

With a driving license and dob/mother's maiden name you can then access a huge
amount of someone's sensitive information, and more importantly, control their
relationships with organisations. I don't want this to be a tutorial, so I'll
simply say that with several more pieces of information you can take out
credit in someone's name, control their existing accounts (e.g. by adding
yourself as a new cardholder), or start causing trouble in their name.

A final word of caution. While it's easy to get people's information from
government records offices, it's even easier to get it from them personally.
We used to call people and social engineer them into giving us their DOB, bank
account numbers, secret words, etc. Don't be stupid with your information:
never tell someone your data down the telephone unless _you called them_. Oh,
and if you're thinking of committing identity fraud, think again. It's not
hard to pull off, but you're not smart enough to do it without getting caught.
Everyone gets caught in the end.

~~~
swalsh
Since you clearly know the process, can you give some tips on protecting
yourself?

~~~
onetimeonly
Actually my biggest lesson about identity theft is that most people just don't
need to worry. The negative effect of identity theft in 9999/1000 cases is
just the inconvenience of correcting the mistakes by informing various
institutions about it. In the last 5 years or so, banks have got very good at
clearing up the mess fast.

You need to assess the risk, taking into account the very low probability of
having your identity stolen and the fairly low inconvenience, against the time
and effort it takes to take protective measures. Don't live in fear of it.

That said, the single best way to protect yourself from random ID theft is to
use a decent bank with good fraud protection. In the UK, Barclays and HSBC are
very good, Natwest and Halifax are very bad. Citibank is a bad US one.

~~~
driverdan
This isn't true at all. You generally don't have to worry about credit card
theft, you're not liable. ID theft is completely different.

If someone steals your ID and drains your bank account it's going to be _much_
harder and more time consuming to get your money back. If someone opens credit
cards under your ID it will be easier to correct than losing your bank account
but can still be very time consuming. Often people discover the issue when
they're applying for new credit, such as a mortgage. Correcting your credit
issues can take months to resolve. They could lose a house they're trying to
buy if they don't get approved.

~~~
onetimeonly
Well, I just disagree. My experience is that recovering your bank account
after fraud is trivial. Fixing fraudulently obtained credit takes longer, but
basically just involves going through a formal process with credit reference
agencies and lenders. If you want to protect against this, you can get a
credit record protection service from any of the major credit agencies, where
they alert you if there is any activity on your credit record s you can fix
it.

edit: nobody should be so unaware of their own credit record that they lose a
house sale because of undiscovered fraud. Keeping on top of it is very cheap
and as simple as registering on a website (UK example:
[https://www.creditexpert.co.uk](https://www.creditexpert.co.uk))

------
runn1ng
With the new technology (fingerprints, retina scans), it's very hard to pull
that off I think.

Even spies today have problems with that; it's not enough to just put on fake
moustache when you are easily identified by your fingerprints.

~~~
mindcrime
That or it's easier than ever. Hack the computer that stores the fingerprint
and retina-scan images, upload yours, and you're golden. After all, everybody
knows "computers never lie".

------
Ovid
Source: a long time ago I read several books on this topic because I collected
odd books and I found three of them in an estate sale. The instructions below
are how this was done in the early 90's and earlier, but today, with increased
security and faster records access, the information is probably well out of
date.

Traditionally, the best way to do this has always been to establish a solid
"breeder document". This is a document used to procure other documents and
assure someone that the person is who they claim to be. Typically this was a
birth certificate.

There were two general ways of doing this. One way was to apply for the birth
certificate of someone already alive, but living in another state and unlikely
to travel internationally (assuming you wanted a passport). However, this is
less likely to be successful today given the widespread information available
on everyone.

The other way was to acquire the birth certificate of someone who was
deceased. In theory, you want someone who was born in one state and died in
another to ensure that the birth certificate won't be stamped as "deceased".

One thing to be avoided is to scan news stories of people who died in well-
publicized accidents: if others have applied for the birth certificate (having
the same idea in mind) too many times, a certificate may get flagged as
suspect and extra scrutiny be applied to requests for it.

Note that instructions for applying for birth certificates are rather lax:
[http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/reqproc/certified_copy.shtm](http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/reqproc/certified_copy.shtm).
Given today's software, it's trivial to fake a "photocopy" of an ID . You'd
want the birth certificate sent to a mail drop
([http://www.maildropsearch.com/](http://www.maildropsearch.com/)) and have it
forwarded on to another address for added security.

Once you have the birth certificate, you then start obtaining "supporting"
documentation, such as library cards, or maybe register for a local community
college and get a student ID (those are often easy to get and are readily
accepted as valid ID).

Eventually you'll want to apply for a state-issued ID card. Some states have
stricter requirements than others. There was a time when you could apply for
one with a library card and your birth certificate, but those times seem to be
long-gone. States will generally require a social security number, too.

Applying for the social security number was always the tricky bit. One source
recommended altering your "photocopied" documents to show that you were under-
age and then apply by mail (the Social Security card doesn't list your age,
after all). If you are ready to retire, file to correct the "bookkeeping
error" that incorrectly lists your age. I am suspicious of whether or not this
would work.

As you can see, the process is essentially one of building momentum of
starting with small, easy-to-acquire documents and working your way up the
chain. It was a long, slow, laborious process and it used to be that acquiring
an alternate identity wasn't necessarily illegal so long as you did not due so
for purposes of fraud. Today, I believe it's illegal in all fifty state.

That being said, I wouldn't try this today (hell, I never would have tried it
when it was still feasible). It's worth several penal slaps on the wrist.

I'm sure that a cunning person can take the plan above and work out how to
acquire a new identity today, but I'd not recommend it.

 __Update __: or if it 's a passport you want, there are alternatives:
[http://www.overseas-exile.com/2013/07/buying-second-
passport...](http://www.overseas-exile.com/2013/07/buying-second-
passport.html). For example,
[http://www.diplomaticpassport.com/](http://www.diplomaticpassport.com/) is
known to be a couple of shady guys who have contacts with various third-world
government people in African nations who, for the right price (a couple of
hundred thousand, last I heard), will get you a diplomatic passport from a
dodgy country, but due to the movie "The Ambassador" outing them, they've laid
low. The site used to have a somewhat larger presence on the net:
[http://web.archive.org/web/20070403230615/http://www.diploma...](http://web.archive.org/web/20070403230615/http://www.diplomaticpassport.com/)

~~~
Havoc
>for the right price (a couple of hundred thousand, last I heard), will get
you a diplomatic passport from a dodgy country

I don't buy this. Sure you'll be able to buy a passport, but a diplomatic one
- I doubt it. And if by some miracle you do pull it off then the country
issuing the passport will be so dodgy that nobody recognizes it anyway.

~~~
jrockway
A reporter / filmmaker does it here:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ambassador_(2011_film)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ambassador_\(2011_film\))

------
malandrew
Biometrics is going to make fake identities a thing of the past unless you
figure out how to effectively cross borders. Biometrics is even becoming a
problem for CIA HUMINT operations because its hard to fake who you are when
fingerprints and iris scans are being used.

[http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/04/cia-spies-
biometric-...](http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/04/cia-spies-biometric-
tech/)

------
RyanZAG
If you're talking about a real world fake identity (eg. social security,
passport, etc) then it seems to come down to falsifying documents or paying
off a worker to create the documents for you. This is a lot easier in some
countries than others - for example, getting a fake Egyptian passport or
Zimbabwe passport is likely to be incredibly easy right now. Once you have the
passport, getting a tourist VISA to just about anywhere is generally
incredibly easy.

If you're talking online fake identity, way easier. Head over to some local
place that has internet access - a coffee shop, etc. Sign up for a facebook
account and a google account using a fake name. Well done, you're now a new
person.

If you plan to use these fake identities to commit crimes, however, then I
wouldn't recommend it. Once law enforcement has a warrant it becomes easy
enough to head over to that cafe and tracking someone down is what cops do.
But for privacy and posting stuff online? Works 100% as long as you keep your
fake traffic completely separate.

------
christiangenco
[http://lmgtfy.com/?q=the+hidden+wiki](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=the+hidden+wiki)

------
filliamhmuffman
Hey Y'all, this response really exceeded my expectations! Snark aside, linking
me to the hiddenWiki was probably the most helpful single response. Im new to
this kind of question in a lot of ways, so it's all been pretty helpful,
debate about quotes aside.

Didn't create the hn identity via tor, but luckily after the one signup (not
telling from where) I'm able to log in that way.

I guess the big question for a lot of people was "why?" and I bet no one will
believe me when I say that this is an intellectual exercise for me, thus far.
Sort of one way of getting at the deeper question of identity construction.
Thus, the heath bunting reco was relevant.

The one piece of info that would really round this discussion out, though, is
an examination of how the other side would attack a ginned-up id. Any
insights, deep or googleweb would be appreciated.

------
cake
I'm curious as to why you would ask such a question. It reminds me of this
book that I haven't read but might answer some of your interrogations :
[http://kk.org/cooltools/archives/11678](http://kk.org/cooltools/archives/11678)

~~~
e3pi
There is something special about Islamic culture:

From review of linked book:

".....Suppose you wish to send $25,000 from Vancouver, British Columbia, to a
friend in Helsinki, Finland. You would hand $25,000 cash to a Vancouver money
changer (Hawaladar) in Vancouver, and receive code words (or an agreed signal
such as a secret handshake) and a contact address in Helsinki. No actual cash
moves out of Canada. Instead, when your friend gives the code to the
correspondent hawaladar in helsinki, he will receive the equivalent in euros
(less a commission) from money that is already there. To review:

-There are no written documents. The exchanges are based on mutual trust (perhaps for that reason unpopular in the United States?).

-Only local currencies are used. Thus, if you are sending money from the UK to Mexico, you pay in pounds and the receiver in Mexico collects in pesos.

-This exchange cannot be traced because no money crosses a border.

.........................

Wikipedia:

Hawala (Arabic: meaning transfer), also known as hundi, is an informal value
transfer system based on the performance and honour of a huge network of money
brokers, which are primarily located in the Middle East, North Africa, the
Horn of Africa, and the Indian subcontinent. It is basically a parallel or
alternative remittance system that exists or operates outside of, or parallel
to traditional banking or financial channels.

~~~
nisse72
I suppose the system only works as long as the net sum of all transactions
arriving (+) and departing (-) any given location is zero in the long term.
But I can imagine there are locations that are net payers and others that are
net receivers of money. What happens then, to settle the difference?

~~~
e3pi
This is straightforward, simple. The funds never cross borders. This is old,
established popular exchange system. I expect there are more Hawaladars than
there are brick and mortar banks. See Wikipedia.

~~~
nisse72
I understand that money never needs to cross borders. But presumably this only
works when there are enough local senders of money to offset the "incoming"
funds to be collected by local recipients.

My question was what happens if, for example, people in Helsinki are always
only recipients? The Finnish branch of the organisation is providing them with
Euros, but if there are no Finnish senders of money (or more likely: the Finns
as a group simply don't send as much as they receive) where do the Euros come
from?

------
lifeisstillgood
I would suggest the following (it's definitely not a one off ala day of the
jackal, but it seems feasible.

* Start with modern world bribe money (say 500k) * find out who works at mid-level of the passport office * approach them with the following (true) story - we are MI6, or at least a small department of it. We have to travel to various countries, but these days once my iris is scanned as Joe it's very awkward coming in 6 months as Frank on a different job. So we need people like you to swap in and out iris scans as we need them, no traces left.

We will show you how to steal your bosses password.

* if you chosen correctly, she is already working for a different agency and is happy to increase the salary again.

Ask for new passport in new name.

------
DanBC
You used to look through a graveyard to find a dead child born a similar year
as you.

You then got their birth certificate. Birth Certs say "MUST NOT BE USED AS
IDENTIFICATION", but it's part of the paper bundle that builds credibility.

~~~
enko
> find a dead child born a similar year as you. You then got their birth
> certificate.

You're missing the crucial step of: how on earth would you get the birth
certificate of some unrelated 30-years-dead kid?

~~~
true_religion
You can apply for a birth certificate even without ID yourself.

~~~
_delirium
A number of states now require at least some kind of substantiation of your
identity to get a copy of the birth certificate, although what exactly you can
use varies, and sometimes you can apply by mail with photocopies.

Here are Indiana's requirements:
[http://www.in.gov/isdh/files/Id_requirements.pdf](http://www.in.gov/isdh/files/Id_requirements.pdf)

------
medde
One tip to avoid being a victim is to never answer those online security
questions with a real answer because they can be easily figured out (I usually
answer with a password that I don't even bother to remember).

------
digitalquacks
An important aspect of this is to create a fake biometric. I am thinking
fingerprint and iris. I work in the area of fake biometric detection, and let
me tell you its quite easy to make a fake fingerprint. Clearly, its hard to
create a fake biometric that impersonates someone else, but a new fake one is
easy. [http://www.wikihow.com/Fake-Fingerprints](http://www.wikihow.com/Fake-
Fingerprints)

------
stinky613
Indirectly related to your question: you can find some interesting food for
thought from the Delhi episode of Scam City[1]. By the end of the episode the
host has a paper trail of (phony) medical problems and, eventually, his own
death certificate.

[http://science.discovery.com/tv-shows/scam-
city](http://science.discovery.com/tv-shows/scam-city)

------
edap
The artist Heath Bunting worked a lot about fake identity

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heath_Bunting](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heath_Bunting)

[http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/27/arts/design/27iden.html?_r...](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/27/arts/design/27iden.html?_r=0)

------
jmount
Probably you start that before publicly asking such a question.

------
moepstar
Edward? Is that you? ;)

------
jlgaddis
Just don't try to create an HN account while connected via that network that
starts with a "t" and rhymes with "door". Your account will be hellbanned with
quickness (even if you don't do anything wrong).

------
trotsky
steal someone elses

