

Ask HN: “Women Who Go” – Has tech diversity gone too far? - notsony

This was just posted on the Go SF meetup group.  There is nothing about the Go meetup which discourages someone from attending.  Subgroups based on gender or ethnicity only serve to encourage segregation and thus do more harm than good.<p>=====<p>http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.meetup.com&#x2F;Women-Who-Go&#x2F;<p>I have been going to GoSF meetups for about 2 years now. When the events were small (~50 people), I was usually the only female. Now the events are larger (~250 people), and I am often still the only female. This makes me sad.<p>I am hoping that this group will provide a better entry point for women who are interested in Go. I am also hoping (selfishly) that this group will help to increase the general estrogen level in the San Francisco Go community.<p>In sum, this group is for you if: 
1. You identify as female, publicly or privately 
2. You have some interest in Go
======
lsiebert
Subgroups based on gender or ethnicity serve, both historically and currently,
a wide variety of purposes for the participants who feel marginalized. Let me
guess, you aren't a woman. How would you know if you felt discouraged from
attending as a woman or not?

Even if you don't believe in specific benefits for minorities, I'm sure you
can accept that a simply smaller group may be more welcoming, especially to
new people.

The real question is, why do you feel it necessary to police what other people
do? If this was a beginner's group, or an East Bay Group, would you have a big
issue with it? If not, you probably want to check your privilege.

It sounds like .4 percent of the SF Go meetup is female, one person. That is
kinda sad, and it seems to me working to try to improve the community by
explicitly seeking to foster additional interest in Go is exactly the sort of
thing that should be applauded.

This group has 12 people interested, which sounds like 11 more than would have
showed up at GoSF.

~~~
siscia
> Let me guess, you aren't a woman.

She definitely claim to be a woman....

> It sounds like .4 percent of the SF Go meetup is female, one person.

Which is OP...

~~~
rco8786
I think you misread the OP.

OPs post is above the =====. Quoted, not OP, post below.

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sadamscodes
Hello all, This is Sarah Adams, creator of the Women Who Go meetup group.

There is a serious lack of women in the Go community - GoSF meetups, but also
Gophercon last year, open-source Go projects, ...

This group was just an idea I had. I know very little about what approaches
have worked well for increasing gender diversity in tech sub-communities. But
nobody else really does either.

I am giving this group a shot, not because I am sure it will help, but because
I feel better trying and failing to help than continuing to complain, but not
trying anything at all.

I'm going to assume that you all agree that the general lack of women in the
Go community is problematic. Forgive me if this is incorrect, and please let
me know.

Given that we all agree there is a problem, I generally ask that if someone is
going to veto an idea of mine, that they suggest an alternative idea which
they would personally be willing to help make happen.

So, if you have a better idea for a way to increase gender diversity in the Go
community that you would personally be willing to not only support, but take
an active role in making it happen, then I'm all ears! But if you do not,
whether you lack the idea or the time or the energy, then please don't bash my
idea or my efforts to just try everything I can think of.

If you find this group personally offensive, please email me.

Thanks,

Sarah sadams.codes@gmail.com

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slvv
Are you asking whether the existence of a group for people who identify as
female and are interested in Go is evidence that "tech diversity has gone too
far"?

I think the answer is no.

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rco8786
To answer your question: No

On an unrelated note, if you identify as female privately but show up at the
group meet you kinda give that secret away.

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bbcbasic
The problem is it enforces the gender division. While it has good intentions,
it's another brick in the wall.

Why not try to solve the problem of how to get more diversity at the original
GO meeting.

=> I agree with OP

~~~
sago
Can you give any evidence for these claims?

a) It _enforces_ gender division. Can you say what evidence you have that such
groups prevent women from accessing the mixed-gender groups. Or are you merely
saying that it is unfair that men don't go to the women's group?

b) It is another brick in the wall. Can you say what evidence you have that
such groups make it more difficult for women to participate in the workforce,
or are otherwise blocked from achieving their potential? Or do you mean that
it might make it more difficult for men to access everything they want to?

c) "Why not solve the problem" Do you have any evidence that such groups do
not contribute to more participation in a community.

I'm not a woman, but I've heard similar complaints against LGBT groups. LGB
people shouldn't have their club because it excludes straight people, etc. But
I can vouch for the fact that such groups form a welcoming platform to enter
wider community participation, provide support, and a way of resourcing people
who face similar problems in the wider community. Admittedly that's all
anecdotal personal experience, but I'd need to see some more concrete evidence
that it is counter-productive.

~~~
bbcbasic
a) There is a GO group that 0 or 1 women attend each time, and a new group
attending by 12 or so women and 0 men by the looks of things.

b) I have used "Brick in the wall" as a more general concept, interpreting the
message of the PF songs of the same name. Little and big things that reinforce
division in society. They can be independent, but essentially they are linked.

c) See stats in (a)

What you say about LGBT groups is spot on. LGBT groups are good. A LGBT JQuery
group is questionable.

~~~
sago
a) Doesn't demonstrate that it _enforces_ anything. The evidence is better
explained by the fact that more women want to go the latter. Do you understand
what enforcing segregation means?

b) But for all your generality, you've not given any evidence of such bricks
or detrimental effects of such groups.

c) Why? Is it any more relevant here?

"A LGBT JQuery group is questionable." Thanks for weighing in on that. It's
good to know we can count on straight advice for what groups are good and what
are questionable.

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narrowrail
Someone should create a "dummies who go" for people like me who are too dumb
'to go' so we just stay home and drink six packs [This is only kind of a
joke].

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GFK_of_xmaspast
Do you know there is nothing about the Go meetup which discourages people from
attending? Have you talked to people? Or did you just assume?

