
Life on the Dirtiest Block in San Francisco - veidr
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/08/us/san-francisco-dirtiest-street-london-breed.html
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narrator
It's worth looking into the idea that a lot of San Francisco's problems are
connected to local court judges who appear to be very lenient on property
crimes[1].

[1]
[https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/heatherknight/article/Le...](https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/heatherknight/article/Lenient-
court-system-weakens-city-s-attempts-to-13145711.php#photo-15984319)

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dsfyu404ed
I agree. It's one thing to have a catch and release policy for victimless
crimes like drug possession or contempt of cop but getting nothing more than a
slap on the wrist for a crime that victimizes someone else is not acceptable,
especially for repeat offenders. Unfortunately it looks like other states are
slowly implementing similar policies.

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jpochtar
SF is just worse at running itself than NY, Tokyo, and every other major city
in the world. If we could accept that, we could could learn from and copy them
to fix the city.

YIMBY is too incremental— turn SoMa into mini-Manhattan to jump SF 100 years
into the future!

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louisswiss
I made the mistake of staying in a hotel in the Tenderloin district the first
time I visited SF.

As a European who has visited many different countries on multiple continents
(including time spent living in NY and London), I was truly shocked. It wasn't
just the filth though - rather the shocking part is the contrast of such
filth/destitution juxtaposed on a background of prosperity, and the way SFers
almost nonchalantly accept it as 'normal'.

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dsfyu404ed
Rest assured, Americans from 49 other states find it equally unsettling.

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wallace_f
SF is as bad as I have seen, but many other US cities have _scary_ homeless
scenes. No other country in the world that I've been to have I seen this
phenomenon. It's similar to no-go zones in American cities. Everyone just
pretends it doesn't exist.

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crooked-v
It sounds like you're trying to argue for some weird conspiracy theory. There
are dangerous areas in US cities, but that's not the same as the (generally
mythical) idea of "no-go zones".

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tunap
It's no conspiracy, it's a racket called "gentrification". The hoods get
cleaned up, some naive, young professionals buy in @ inflated prices & then
the sun goes down & everything not bolted down is stolen/destroyed. Then
there's the break-ins, muggings & murders, but we don't like to talk too much
about those aspects.

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jefflombardjr
> Just a 15-minute walk away are the offices of Twitter and Uber, two
> companies that along with other nameplate technology giants have helped push
> the median price of a home in San Francisco well beyond a million dollars.

The article didn't even mention Dreamforce, where no kidding there was a
surplus of clean food, water, and even clothing/swag just a 10-15 minute walk
abject poverty. The whole thing kind of made me think of the following quote

> “The greatest crimes in modern history resulted not just from hatred and
> greed, but even more so from ignorance and indifference.” ― Yuval Noah
> Harari, 21 Lessons for the 21st Century

I took a couple of extra socks and shirts from software vendors to give out,
but man... Heroin is an ugly drug. There was alot of talk about hoping the new
mayor would do something. Like set up safe injection sites, but this feels to
me like a bandaid for the problem.

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claydavisss
What does Dreamforce have to do with it? The homeless problem in SF has
nothing to do with access to food, water or clothes.

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jefflombardjr
The root cause of the problem yes, unrelated.

But many homeless lack access to these basic necessities that were in such
abundance/wasted just 10 minutes away. To juxtapose the two extremes was
unsettling.

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anothergoogler
Vagrants in the tenderloin aren't dying of starvation, thirst, or exposure.
They could have Dreamforce on the street in the tenderloin every month and it
would have no effect on the conditions there.

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jefflombardjr
They might not be dying of starvation, but plenty of people in SFO certainly
are hungry:
[https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/article/Nearly-1-in-4-San-F...](https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/article/Nearly-1-in-4-San-
Franciscans-struggle-with-hunger-11171678.php)

I was just trying to point out that many people do not have access to the
quality of food/water that literally goes to waste at tech companies.

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PretzelFisch
Is homeless the right word? Many of the people who live on the streets of sf
have other issues. Is lumping all people without homes together detrimental to
those that just need little stability and shelter to get back on their feet.

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a2tech
Lax homeless laws+unreasonable apartment costs+temperate weather=filthy
streets filled with feces and homeless people.

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matthewmacleod
What are "lax homeless laws"?

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vowelless
A euphemism some people use to partly blame the victim.

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AllegedAlec
I don't think it's unreasonable to demand that there are laws against people
shitting in the streets and leaving infected drug needles all over the place
and that these laws are also acted upon by law enforcement.

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matthewmacleod
Ultimately, someone who is in a position where they're defecating in the
street and discarding used needles isn't likely to be in a position where
they'll be engaging positively with law enforcement.

That kind of thing needs to be treated as the public health problem that it
is, with extensive society-wide initiatives to prevent people getting into
those situations, and to help them get out once they're in. Law enforcement
can play a part in that for sure, but until there's a clear programme it
doesn't do much to alleviate the problem in the long term.

~~~
beaconstudios
how are regular people meant to get back on their feet when extreme
gentrification prices out everyone who doesn't work in tech? I find it hard to
imagine a path from homeless heroin addict to making $2500+/month to be able
to afford to live in the area.

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prepend
I don’t think it’s possible and they’ll have to leave. I think the city or
NGOs are going to have to invest in low value housing since they don’t have
the profit margin requirement.

But I think this will help with the pre-homeless. But I think the feces/drug
problems are caused by individuals for whom $2500 and $1000/month
rent/mortgage are equally impossible.

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dmode
The problem with Tenderloin is it is located in the heart of SF. Every city
has its squalor. For example, Skid Row in DT LA or south side of Chicago. But
tourists wouldn’t stumble upon them

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lovehashbrowns
There are tons of awful areas in Chicago--I used to live in a pretty ghetto
area of the south side. In the 1990's, the whole area I lived in was a
battleground between two major gangs. Walking down the alley past a certain
part of the night was practically a guarantee that you'd get robbed, at gun
point, by a passing car. Gangs used to recruit kids in my elementary school,
and the nearby high school was completely overrun by gangs.

Still, that area of Chicago was pretty damn clean compared to what I have seen
in SF. Living here is so depressing, even more so than what I've encountered
in Chicago. Walking past literal hobo shanty towns on the sidewalk; seeing god
damn used needles on the sidewalk across the street from my office; having
coworkers visiting from out-of-state harassed by homeless people; SHIT
EVERYWHERE. Not even just downtown. I live in the Richmond District and
there's constantly shit on the sidewalk. This is easily the grossest city I've
ever been in.

The most maddening thing about all of this is how much it costs to live here.
Fucking hell. AND HOW MUCH THEY CHARGE FOR SECURITY DEPOSITS! This is all so
crazy to me.

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nickthemagicman
There's spots off Market St. where the homeless set up large markets. They lay
down blankets and peddle whatever they've stolen/found/made. Its really
fascinating how they've started their own market with their limited resources.
San Francisco is like Calcutta.

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opwieurposiu
Is there some way to pay the homeless people to clean up the city?

I am thinking of something like a smartphone app that logs which blocks you
spend time on. If you spend time on a block and it's cleanliness improves you
get money. This idea does have some problems regarding minimum wage laws and
funding but the concept could be worth a try at least.

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resters
What people misunderstand about this is that while it is tragic, it is mainly
the result of an overly restrictive immigration policy.

The blighted areas should be thriving and bustling, full to the brim with
immigrants from all over the world, but we turn them away.

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prepend
This is an interesting idea. What makes you think better immigration would
apply to this problem?

Do you think more cultures would displace the homeless? Or they would be more
able to care for the vulnerable population? Immigration is less restrictive
now than 50 years ago, but this problem seems worse now than in 1970, right?

I’m all for improved immigration policy, don’t don’t see the connection.

~~~
resters
It depends on one's perspective of the _cause_ of the tenderloin being the
tenderloin.

My view is that the land and infrastructure in the tenderloin is being
horribly misused.

Not only does it provide shelter for some people, but it is also an
environment where hard drugs and crime are rampant.

Immigrants would be willing to settle in some of the more grungy areas, and
would quickly clean them up through investment in little things that make a
big difference, such as reporting crimes, cleaning up messes, warding off
those who have no concern for the value of the neighborhood.

There will still need to be housing and treatment for the indigent and
addicted, but there is no reason that miles of productive urban space should
be blighted for decades due to being overtaken by squalor and crime.

Immigrants would revitalize it by filling it with non-addicted and ambitious
people who would strive to make it their home.

