
The Terrifying Potential of 5G - everybodyknows
https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-communications/the-terrifying-potential-of-the-5g-network
======
HammerJack
If we should be concerned about the deployment of 5G, it's due to the fact
that it will render our weather satellites nearly useless. The frequency they
chose for 5G just so happens to be about the same frequency as water's
resonance. 5G cell towers would show up as huge points of water concentration
and we have no idea how to work around this yet.

[https://hackaday.com/2019/04/16/5g-buildout-likely-to-put-
we...](https://hackaday.com/2019/04/16/5g-buildout-likely-to-put-weather-
forecasting-at-risk/)

~~~
beautifulfreak
The same is reported in the journal, Nature, which requested a comment from
the FCC but didn't receive a reply. The Hackaday article contains this line:
"FCC Chairman Ajit Pai rejected the request, stating that there was an
“absence of any technical basis for the objection.” But the Washington Post
really zeroes in on the FCC, reporting unresponsiveness to the NOAA, NASA, and
even the House Appropriations Committee. All they're asking for is some time
to study the situation, but the FCC won't delay spectrum auctions or even
concede that there could be an issue.

[https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01305-4](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01305-4)

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2019/03/13/fcc-
auctio...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2019/03/13/fcc-auction-off-
wireless-spectrum-that-could-interfere-with-vital-weather-data-rejecting-
requests-us-house-science-agencies/?utm_term=.5263f9460f5e)

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linuxboxer
“The new 5G wireless technology involves millimeter waves (extremely high
frequencies) producing photons of much greater energy than even 4G and WiFi.
Allowing this technology to be used without proving its safety is reckless in
the extreme, as the millimeter waves are known to have a profound effect on
all parts of the human body.”

-Prof. Trevor Marshall, Director Autoimmunity Research Foundation, California

~~~
Tsubasachan
Air polution is known to kill millions of people every year. And not just in
India. Cities like Paris and London are mess.

Nobody gives a shit.

~~~
mrtksn
This is both irrelevant and wrong. It’s wrong because people do give a shit
and these cities are trying to come up with a solution like limiting or
completely banning certain pollutants like cars or burning coal etc. The air
quality is constantly monitored since years and EU country’s have implemented
quite strict environmental policies.

It’s irrelevant because even if people didn’t given a shit about pollution ,
wouldn’t mean that they should not give shit to other risks.

~~~
aries1980
> EU country’s have implemented quite strict environmental policies.

True, but yet, noone cares: \- [https://www.theguardian.com/uk-
news/2018/jan/30/london-reach...](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-
news/2018/jan/30/london-reaches-legal-air-pollution-limit-just-one-month-into-
the-new-year) \-
[https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/apr/12/london-h...](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/apr/12/london-
housing-approved-in-area-with-illegal-pollution-levels-lewisham) \-
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-
environment-44612642](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-44612642)

You can point to the Ultra-Low Emission Zone (ULEZ), which means you can't
drive in to very central London (where most people work, but almost noone
actually lives there) with a petrol car or van that is older than 13 years.
Doesn't sound ultra low to me, compared to hybrids have been produced for more
than a decade and electric cars are available to the mainstream. And even this
very low bar is enforced to the very inner boroughs only. The 50 years old
diesel trains that are running its per-carriage engines at the platform when
idle, are an exception of course.

[https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-
zone/way...](https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/ways-to-
meet-the-standard)

~~~
mrtksn
I don't get how do you reach the "No one cares" conclusion.

~~~
aries1980
I meant it has been happening since the EU-wide regulation came out. London
reaches the critical yearly level at the first weeks of January and only
cosmetic changes have been applied. E.g. a 20-year-old, rusty diesel truck,
that makes ~£500/day gets away with £12.5 fee instead of ban from Greater
London. The actual polluters won't invest in newer vehicles, because the lease
is more expensive than just £12.5 per day.

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kylec
Maybe I’m not forward thinking enough, but I’ve yet to hear any compelling new
use cases for 5G. I’m doubtful it’ll be of much use for self-driving cars or
robotic surgery, and 4G is more than fast/low latency enough for my phone
needs and the needs of most people. I really don’t see how 5G is going to add
anywhere close to $12T to the economy.

~~~
langitbiru
Game Streaming (like Google Stadia), AR/VR (because you need to download the
models which are usually big).

Accoding to AngelList newsletter that I read: [https://sg-
mktg.com/MTU1NTYwNzI3Nnw4YzJTNW5sbi1uQW9ScXVCOElJ...](https://sg-
mktg.com/MTU1NTYwNzI3Nnw4YzJTNW5sbi1uQW9ScXVCOElJZExqYkZNc2pIbWY0Y2YzZG1PVHV3d1Z0SVBiUVhxaFU4OEY2WkJoTUt0N08tUFlaTTYyRGo0dG84Zlh5cnhqYlpPTi1VSzM0MHBEM2prckdHM2Jlc1JhcDJXQmZZUjlrOEZJQmV3UEJ4VjFQVDZScll2UW9TaXJaemlkVWNWZFdHNFNFcTUyY2ZPRDhWa29BaHNUcHh0d203YzJTQS1hb2NmclZ0MVM3Tkh6a0pFa2Z2OTcwVzJCakR6VTVnM2tuZ3BYQklJWE5TcVlkRThXUUNRd3Y0U3VMdWhFZEhhWm9pYzNMdGhRRFRCckJremlzRUx1Y0NCUT09fH3OIHQ7IJUN8R1EvI4Nx8YJN5N7ge9jxMzpV_bWzf7f)

~~~
pdimitar
That is reasonable but IMO they are over-estimating the market size. And
businesses are very interested in the return of investment metric.

Investing in 5G in some of the areas with predicted boom might just turn out
to be too expensive in comparison with the expected revenue.

~~~
thereisnospork
The big one that grabs my interest is as a cable internet replacement, I would
love to be able to ditch Comcast.

~~~
pdimitar
They will probably lobby their way out of this as well.

Not sure if there's any hope for the USA to break free of carrier oligopoly.

~~~
jeffbax
I don't know if it's 5g or not but I have 300-500Mb wireless internet in
Boston right now. There's at least two companies doing it.

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m0zg
I'll tell you more. Earth is heated by an ongoing nuclear fusion reaction
which emits a wide spectrum of radiation between 430-770THz. The radiation
density during daytime is about 1KW/m^2, and some of it is proven to directly
cause cancer. Is that "terrifying" enough?

~~~
isostatic
Ladies and Gentlemen of the class of '99 Wear Sunscreen If I could offer you
only one tip for the future, Sunscreen would be it The long term benefits of
sunscreen have been proved by scientists

~~~
vbuwivbiu
bad for sealife

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purplezooey
I remember they said a lot of this when 4G was coming out. If it's anything
like that we got nothing to worry about. Add some $1200 phones and slightly
faster speeds when you're in the middle of the city and you've pretty much
summarized it.

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linuxboxer
Thousands of studies link low-level wireless radio frequency radiation
exposures to a long list of adverse biological effects, including:

DNA single and double strand breaks.

Oxidative damage.

Disruption of cell metabolism.

Increased blood brain barrier permeability.

Melatonin reduction.

Disruption to brain glucose metabolism.

Generation of stress proteins.

Let’s not also forget that in 2011 the World Health Organization (WHO)
classified radio frequency radiation as a possible 2B carcinogen.

~~~
thoughtfunction
You also get EM radiation from the electric wiring in your house, lightbulbs,
the sun and so on. It's also about the strength of that EM radiation that
determines is if it's harmful.

To compare, your wifi router does a max of 4000mW transmission, which is 4W

~~~
lighteater
The 50/60hz wiring radiation is a mild annoyance compared to 2.4 and 5Ghz wifi
(I prefer 5Ghz because it seems to transfer less heat to my tissues); I
sporadically use 4G on my phone so I don't need a permanent wifi installation
in my room. Contrarily, I've found that staring into the sun, early in the
morning for seconds up to a few minutes, is quite pleasant.

If 5G is much worse than 4G I'm literally getting lead-lined underwear. It's
already a bother to keep my phone sufficiently far from my brain and balls
while typing this comment.

Then again, my sensitivity is way too high. I can also feel whether my
microwave is turned on through the wall!

~~~
crooked-v
> I prefer 5Ghz because it seems to transfer less heat to my tissues

A single 60W incandescent bulb (which has about 10% efficiency for its
lighting) transfers more heat to your tissues than a stack of 10 home routers.

~~~
lighteater
That's a wide-band transmission with a regular 50hz signal, instead of a
narrow-band 2.4/5Ghz modulated by chaotic 10/100/1000Mhz (Mb/s) data.

Like the difference between a lightbulb and a tissue-penetrating laser strobe.

~~~
mveety
No it isn’t. The antenna is basically just a flashing light bulb for 5 GHz. 5
GHz transfers way less energy into your body than visible or infrared light
because it’s not absorbed as readily and each photon has less energy. It’s
like the difference between a blue lightbulb and a red lightbulb.

------
linuxboxer
“Along with the 5G there is another thing coming – Internet of Things. If you
look at it combined the radiation level is going to increase tremendously and
yet the industry is very excited about it…. they project 5G/IoT business to be
a $7 trillion business.”

-Prof. Girish Kumar, Professor at Electrical Engineering Department at IIT Bombay

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klyrs
This title is clickbait

~~~
rj5
Agreed!

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jokowueu
I love 5G

~~~
ido
why?

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linuxboxer
Whether people want to believe it or not, 5G is being deployed as both a
biological and psychological weapon. Millimetre waves and their effects are
well studied and utilised by military in their active denial crowd control
systems. Wifi is also dangerous, why would they have chosen 2.4Ghz when this
is the frequency absorption spectrum of H2O. The same frequency microwave
ovens use to most effectively heat food. Similarly, the frequency absorption
spectrum of oxygen is mm wave 60Ghz, 5G is likely to use this spectrum at some
point. Next generation wifi (WiGig) has its default frequency based on the
oxygen molecules absorption point. This means they are messing with the
fundamental elements of biological life. Ethernet cables do not have these
same flaws. The surveillance and control aspect of this iot 5G network
ecosystem is going to have chilling effects on freedom, liberty and
sovereignty. Social credit anyone?

~~~
Ao7bei3s
For microwave ovens / water: You have cause and effect reversed. You believe
water has an absorption peak at 2.4GHz because microwave ovens use it, not the
other way around. In reality, microwave ovens use 2.4GHz because it's legally
available (ISM band) and water has a wide absorption spectrum in GHz area (the
exact peak shifts wildly with temperature[1]. 2.4GHz is _far_ from optimal).
Microwave ovens also contain kilowatt output in a small chamber using RF
reflective walls (necessary for the standing waves to develop). Contrast this
with the inverse square law for cell towers.

For air: The 60GHz allows reduced cell size. This makes it more realistic for
you to opt out of receiving everyone else's emissions (by walking away). Also,
air is not not "fundamental to biological life" (anaerobic organisms exist).
More seriously, at 60GHz and above skin penetration is very, very shallow.

Active denial systems use a slightly higher frequency (95GHz) and much higher
radiated power (30kW-2.5 MW says Wikipedia).

The social aspects of IOT have as much to do with 5G as with, say, smartphones
in general. That's just anti-tech. It can be discussed, but it's not an
interesting argument in the context of whether 5G is harmful.

You are making emotional arguments that are not grounded in technical
arguments.

[1] Please refer to the chart in
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_absorption_by_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_absorption_by_water#Microwaves_and_radio_waves)

