
China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row - adventured
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/china-sentences-canadian-man-to-death-in-drug-case-linked-to-huawei-row/2019/01/14/058306a0-17fb-11e9-a804-c35766b9f234_story.html
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CydeWeys
At this point I think I'm too afraid to ever go to China. You can't get
justice there, and you can be swept up into some stupid diplomatic spat.

Don't they realize how short-sighted this is? This is incredibly harmful to
tourism.

~~~
mikeash
He was already a convicted drug trafficker. I don’t see any indication that
his original 15-year sentence was improper. It is possible that he was falsely
convicted, of course, but I don’t know that this is more likely in China than
elsewhere.

Suddenly changing his sentence to death is rather suspicious, but at least for
me it doesn’t make a huge difference compared to a 15-year sentence.

Random anecdote: I just got back to the US from several weeks in China. By far
the most uncomfortable and worrying law-enforcement interaction of the trip
was going through US immigration control on the way back.

~~~
3pt14159
Either China is doing this so they can have something to retreat on that seems
gracious and careful (i.e., it's a complete ploy) or they're completely
misreading Canadian sentiment. Canadians tend to give and give and bend and
bend, but it really comes to it they snap in a way that I don't think the
Chinese understand.

We have way more leverage over China than they have over us. We sell them
commodities. They sell us electronics. You know what's the one good thing
about commodity sales? Fungibility. If we start banning Chinese phones we'll
buy American ones come in instead. If they ban Canadian grain it will be less
efficient, but the world will shift around and that grain will be sold to
someone. If they ban our wood, it will be less efficient, but we can make our
own furniture or sell wood to Europe to replace the wood China is buying from
elsewhere.

And if push every _really_ came to shove there is a _lot_ of Chinese owned
property in Canada. Foreign ownership taxes can go way, way up.

It's a complete misread of the situation by them. We have extradition treaties
with the USA. Our society runs via a rule of law. They're going to turn the
entire Canadian business and political community against them if they keep
this up. Take it up with the Americans for fucks sake. Even Maxime Bernier has
walked back his pledge for a Chinese-Canadian trade agreement.

~~~
magduf
>If we start banning Chinese phones we'll buy American ones come in instead.

Huh? America doesn't make any phones, and worse, simply does not even have the
technology to make phones if they wanted to. America does not have the
technology needed to make the screens for them, most notably: the screen
technology is all in Asia.

~~~
irrational
It doesn't have the technology or the manufacturing capability?

~~~
magduf
Neither. The technology is made in China or Korea, and owned by the Koreans.
We couldn't build modern smartphone screens in the US without doing serious
industrial espionage on our own ally, and even then setting up the
manufacturing capability would cost billions, if we could get it working and
not have a problem like the "capacitor plague" that happened when the Chinese
tried stealing Japanese capacitor formulae back in the late 90s or early 2000s
and didn't quite get it right.

------
rrggrr
Chinese leadership doesn't want Meng Wanzhou to talk, revealing the full
extent of Huawei misdeeds. The new sentence for Schellenberg is - I believe -
a message of solidarity for Meng's consumption and less an attempt to
manipulate the Canadian justice system. Keep in-mind Shellenberg was sentenced
to 15 years. A re-sentencing like this is unusual and experts say manipulated.
The sooner Meng is extradited to the US, the faster Canada can get of the
middle... though I doubt it will help Shellenberg's plight.

~~~
scrumper
A message of solidarity, which when you unwrap it contains a subtle threat.

~~~
stochastic_monk
How subtle a threat is a death sentence?

~~~
scrumper
It's interpretable as a subtle threat to Yang. The message looks on the
surface like solidarity: "We'll step up tensions over your arrest. We're on
your side. Hang tight." But really, it says, "We have no issues whatsoever
with judicial murder so keep your mouth shut." It's not like Canada is going
to release her to get a convicted drug smuggler out of jail after all.

Maybe it is not so subtle!

~~~
tomp
Why would they want to threaten her publicly, as oppposed to say through her
lawyer?

I'm pretty sure whatever message there is, it was mean for Canada, US and the
world.

------
redleggedfrog
It's interesting to me how much China is behaving very much like a "gang",
like the Crips or Bloods from the 80's. "You take one of ours, we'll grab some
of yours." Doesn't matter what the reasons for the grabs are, it's just
posturing.

It's sad when you're international relations are at the level of hoodlums.

~~~
mdpopescu
That's always the case. Interpreting international relations as spats between
gang members (or 8 year-olds) clarifies a lot of things.

~~~
Nasrudith
Reminds me of the sarcastic and cynical inversion - referring to gangs as baby
governments. Historically that isn't wrong given that strongmen charging
protection fees (by consent or coercion) and making an example of any
"bandits" harming his income by robbing them or harming their paying subjects.
This creates the monopoly on violence and things can progress from there for
better or worse.

Given an apocalyptic collapse and enough time you might see the Crip Nation
eventually become literal.

~~~
leetcrew
people _really_ don't like this line of argument on HN. I am curious to find
out why.

~~~
Nasrudith
Probably because it often is too couched in ideals that seem for lack of
better words childish - they already know that it is backed by a monopoly on
violence and power vacuums tend to make any idyllic situations rare and short
lived so there is little interesting there even to avowed anarchists. They're
aware and usually consider it the lesser of evils unless things go /seriously/
wrong.

Better received are nuance and reality bound arguements. Talking about viable
schemes to de-hiarch institutions and their limitations is far more
interesting.

For instance one more viable concept is the "when everybody is the police
nobody is" \- a situation where everyone has the same policing powers and a
tribunal legal system would be very radical but it is interesting conceptually
to explore.

Specialization still produces premiums so one could discuss in said
hypothetical if there was a "security fund" that people pay in and could get
paid by consent for operating as a dedicated policeman despite lacking any
privledged position legally. Even if one thinks the whole operation would
probably be doomed to failure by collapse or hierarchy entrenchment it gives
plenty to discuss in facts and opinions.

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anilakar
The moment anyone starts using a death row felon as a bargaining chip, the
death sentence turns into a political murder.

~~~
Nasrudith
Sadly history suggests the turn into part isn't new at all. Just look at
pretextual abuses like troublesome political figures receiving it like union
leaders and anarchists with only tennous links to crimes philosophically let
alone evidentiary. And before that there was King Henry the 8th and he
certainly wasn't remotely the first.

------
johannkokos
I am confused by this article. It says, "Schellenberg was arrested in 2014 and
received his original sentence in 2016 in a case that went unnoticed."

But according to the Chinese court[link 1], he was first sentenced for 15
years in jail on 2018-11-20. Robert appealed to high court. On 2018-12-29, the
high court decided the original sentence was too light and asked the
intermediate court for a new trial.

link 1:
[http://court.dl.gov.cn/info/122_138614.vm](http://court.dl.gov.cn/info/122_138614.vm)

~~~
tanilama
So he smuggled 220kg of meth, while 50g is death penalty in China.

~~~
chillacy
China (vietnam, singapore, etc) has been executing drug smugglers for a long
time now. Nobody really raised a fuss when they were executing africans who
may not have been aware of the consequences. [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-
asia-pacific-16137327](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-16137327)

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perlpimp
you could be imprisoned if in china police raid an expat bar and deported and
in light of current events jailed and persecuted if police find traces of THC
in your blood. They do raid expat bars regularly just to do this.

so really - reconsider going to china if you've been using any of recreational
drugs in last while.

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b88d80170
If he is not Canadian, would it be different for such drug case?

~~~
jdhn
Maybe, maybe not. I do believe that if he wasn't Canadian, we wouldn't be
hearing about it.

~~~
dwild
> Maybe, maybe not. I do believe that if he wasn't Canadian, we wouldn't be
> hearing about it.

For sure and the same is true before Huawei arrest. This has nothing to do
with his case but with how China use Canadian in their country to threaten us
(I'm Canadian).

------
DeonPenny
I don't feel good about buying Chinese goods anymore. Look at what has
happened. Even if he's not killed the fact that they brought media in is a
subtle as a finger sliding across a throat.

------
pseingatl
In the United States, the guidelines penalty for trafficking in 200 kilograms
of meth is life without parole. Canada's sentencing rules are more lenient.
The question is whether Canada will go the wall in what is really a dispute
between China and the United States. China does have an aggressive regime of
trying to protect its citizens overseas--see, William Sampson--that the U.S.
lacks. Sampson was at least arguably innocent while this trafficker is not.
There is no doubt that Canada will suffer because of its extradition treaty
with the U.S. The question that Canadians have to ask themselves is this: is
helping the U.S. to apply its laws globally worth all this trouble in the
absence of international consensus?

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mengxue
Ren Zhengfei’s first wife was Meng Jun (the mother of Meng wan Zhou), the
daughter of the former Sichuan Provincial Vice Governor Meng Dongbo. Meng
Dongpo served as deputy secretary general of the East China Military and
Political Committee. Director of the Infrastructure Department of the Ministry
of Metallurgy, Director of the Metallurgical Industry Department of Sichuan
Province, Director of the Provincial Economic Commission, Secretary of the CPC
Dukou Municipal Committee, deputy governor of Sichuan Province,etc

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eunos
I do not see the connection between the sentencing and Huawei's case other
than the timing.

~~~
dak1
China took the highly unusual step of inviting western media to the man's
appeal trial.

~~~
m-p-3
And the resentencing is suspicious.

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b_b
This man Winston Sterzel [0] has been predicting something like this will
happen in China, as they have no tolerance for drugs due to the horrors of the
opium crisis.

[0] =
[https://www.youtube.com/user/serpentza](https://www.youtube.com/user/serpentza)

~~~
hourislate
>they have no tolerance for drugs due to the horrors of the opium crisis.

Are you sure? They are the huge exporter of Fentanyl to North America while
the Chinese Government turns a blind eye.

~~~
dqpb
That's warfare.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Put like this, it sounds like repaying for opium.

~~~
wil421
What does Canada or the US have to do with the British and the opium wars?

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ferrolho
Does anyone actually know the reasons behind Meng's arrest?

~~~
T-A
[https://www.scribd.com/document/395185756/Letter-from-
the-U-...](https://www.scribd.com/document/395185756/Letter-from-the-U-S-
Justice-Department)

~~~
ferrolho
thanks, I had been looking for a proper document such as this

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cobbzilla
dons tinfoil hat...

Chinese government unofficially encourages entrapment of high profile
executives as bargaining chips.

Canada doesn’t like when one of their citizens is ensnared, applies pressure
by upping the ante - holding a legitimate financial criminal from China.

China sees a game of chicken and ups the ante further - to “death” the
ultimate expression of raw state power, intended to intimidate.

What happens next? I just hope no one dies.

------
Cypher
whoops now that umm Huawei arrest is really going to hurt now.

