
The eleven nations of the United States and their cultures - daddy_drank
https://www.businessinsider.com/the-11-nations-of-the-united-states-2015-7
======
squiggleblaz
American state boundaries clearly do not reflect these national regions.
Federal states have boundaries that either serve to unite separate territories
or to administer a united territory. It has probably a source of strength in
the US, that states are either much too small or contain multiple different
areas in them, since it fosters a broader, national US identity rather than an
identity as a New Netherlander or a Far Westerner.

If Americans tried to reorganise their boundaries along the lines of the
article's map, they would probably stop "coming together" and start "moving
apart" in the course of a few generations. In the short term, though, it would
probably ease a lot of the pressure currently felt.

Germany is another federal state made stronger by having internal boundaries
that don't reflect historical identities (Bavaria being the weakness), and
which has been able to foster a unified national identity in the past seventy
years despite excluding Austria and losing much territory.

Canada's borders are more ... logical and accurate (visible in the map), and
their federation is much weaker for it. The long border with the culturally
similar US probably contributes to the weakness of Canada as a federal state.

~~~
dmurray
Switzerland seems to be doing OK as a counterexample. Its cantons have a high
level of self-government and a history as independent states and cultures. Yet
Switzerland is a prosperous country with a strong national identity and
minimal talk of secession by the cantons.

~~~
4h53n
Being a much smaller country, in terms of land and population, I would assume
variations within must be lighter too.

~~~
earthboundkid
I don't understand what you mean by "lighter". You're aware that Switzerland
has four national languages, right? That's a big variation!

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pjc50
It's interesting to see how canned phrases to represent certain concepts can
become nonsensical when put together :

> The Deep South was established by English slave lords from Barbados and was
> styled as a West Indies-style slave society, Woodard notes. It has a very
> rigid social structure and fights against government regulation that
> threatens individual liberty. Alabama, Florida, Mississippi, Texas, Georgia,
> and South Carolina are all part of the Deep South.

The pro- slavery rigid society that somehow values individual liberty? Would
anyone be able to explain how that works?

~~~
danans
> The pro- slavery rigid society that somehow values individual liberty? Would
> anyone be able to explain how that works?

It only valued individual liberties for free individuals, like slave owners.
Slaves are by definition not free individuals, so the right to individual
liberty by definition didn't apply to them.

It's practically tautological if you substitute the word "liberty" with
"freedom".

~~~
iguy
No, it's far from a tautology. A strong belief in individual liberty was a
distinguishing characteristic of that society. And especially of that
political society, which meant landowners. Having lots of slaves was another
characteristic.

The useful comparison is just up the coast, Massachusetts was almost the
opposite, a theocracy of busybodies. Where a town council could re-arrange
people's living arrangements if they thought X was a bit of a loner wanting to
be out in the woods. And of course enthusiasm for every detail of the approved
religion was not optional.

~~~
danans
The tautology is that non-free people (slaves) do not have freedom (AKA
individual liberty).

------
willis936
Upstate NY is not Yankeedom. It is Greater Appalachia.

Also, many of the Midwest states are less Yankeedom and more Heartland.

Also, Dallas is Greater Appalachia and not Deep South yet Houston is Deep
South and not New France?

Also, LA is El Norte and not the Left Coast?

Was this map based on 200 year old data?

~~~
derekerdmann
Greater Appalachia definitely extends through PA in a T shape across the
center of the state and the northern border (sometimes called Pennsyltucky)
and covers at least the Southern Tier in New York.

~~~
tantalor
See the image here:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Pennsylvania](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Pennsylvania)

 _Like most states, Pennsylvania 's rural areas tend to be more conservative
and support Republicans. The resulting political map of Pennsylvania is
therefore a red "T" in the center of the state with the Pittsburgh and
Philadelphia areas a strong blue._

------
bloopernova
Interesting divisions, and certainly something that can be argued about
forever.

My feeling is that Michigan probably has most in common with Wisconsin,
Illinois, Minnesota, Maine and the rest of New England. I'm not sure it's a
Yankee kind of thing though. More of a shared culture based on the
environment, lakes, hunting, and exposure/familiarity with large forests.

I wonder how, in a parallel universe, such states combined with Ontario/New
Brunswick/Newfoundland would end up looking like, as a nation surrounding the
Great Lakes and North Atlantic coast.

Sorry I'm rambling.

------
Balgair
Strangely, I'd say the CO frontrange is more Left Coast than West.

It's a good attempt, but needs data backing. I remember another article that
took daily commutes and then Voronoi Diagram'd them into a few 'states'. Can't
find the link though.

~~~
leetcrew
to some extent, such a map would almost have to have fractal complexity. I can
identify neighborhoods in my midatlantic city that fit into several different
"nations".

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runnr_az
There's a really interesting discussion of this on the Cracked Podcast:
[https://www.earwolf.com/episode/the-11-nations-of-
america..](https://www.earwolf.com/episode/the-11-nations-of-america..).

------
jfacoustic
Parts of East Baton Rouge Parish are liberal enough to be considered New
France, but Livingston Parish doesn't deserve the title -- it's more like
50/50\. The line may be determined by Catholic vs Protestant; New France
consists of Catholic majority Parishes.

I'm a part of the French revival movement in South Louisiana to help preserve
the culture. Most French speakers are 60+ years old, which is sad. Before
about 1970, children suffered corporal punishment if they spoke French in
school. Blame it on the Anglo-protestants.

There isn't much French spoken in Nouvelle Orleans anymore. Same goes for
Baton Rouge. This largely happened after Reconstruction: some of the Yankee
leadership who took over were just as xenophobic as Southern slave-owners. I'm
not trying to defend this change in leadership having to occur, it was
necessary to make sure the South didn't try to keep slavery alive.
Unfortunately, nationalist leadership was much like today's conservatives in
wanting the only official language of L'etats Unis to be Anglais.

South Louisiana is highly underrated though, especially the city of Baton
Rouge. Weed is decriminalized, there's an incredible symphony orchestra,
plenty of art museums, and damn good food. But it's much more "American" of a
town than New Orleans or Acadiana.

Here's a hilarious article explaining the division between North and South
Louisiana:

[http://dailycrawfishnews.com/2018/05/07/despite-korea-
unific...](http://dailycrawfishnews.com/2018/05/07/despite-korea-unification-
north-and-south-louisiana-no-closer-to-making-peace/)

Anyway, laissez les bons temps rouler, vous-autres!

~~~
jriot
I am in South Louisiana as well, close to New Orleans. Grandfather is full
Cajun, grew up in Cutoff, with his father being the captain of a shrimp boat.

One of my goals next year is to learn French. Do you speak French?

~~~
jfacoustic
That's cool. Je parle un peu de francais, et vous? Parisien, pas cadien,
malheursement.

~~~
jriot
No, not yet. It will most likely be Parisien as well, since learning Cajun
French would make the journey much more difficult.

~~~
jfacoustic
There are some mild differences in vocabulary and pronunciation (the Cajun 'R'
is way more difficult) but they're mutually intelligible.

~~~
jriot
Good to know! Where do you find people speaking Cajun French in Louisiana? We
went to the Festivals Acadiens et Créoles a few months ago, the only time I
heard French was in the music, no one seemed to use French during a
conversation.

~~~
jfacoustic
Mainly Lafayette for me. Vermillionville has French speakers as well. There
are a couple of French meetups in the Baton Rouge area as well.

------
duelingjello
There was a book and multipart PBS documentary by Robert MacNeil where he
traveled and interviewed Americans about how they spoke and the evolution of
accents.

 _Do You Speak American?_ (2005)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_You_Speak_American%3F](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_You_Speak_American%3F)

[https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0443484/](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0443484/)

------
dsfyu404ed
The lack of demarcations that correlate at all with major economic area
distinctions is a red flag to me that this map is questionable.

There's definitely a big cultural distinction between the Boston/DC corridor
part of the east coast states and everything else in those states. DC has more
in common with Boston than DC has in common with other parts (e.g. Indiana) of
the "midlands" panhandle the map has it occupying. The fact that there's a
line smack through the DC metro itself is kind of a wtf. There should probably
be "left coast" dots for the counties that Denver, CO and Austin, TX are in.
Maine North of Portland has more in common with Quebec and western
Pennsylvania than it does with anything in Southern New England. If those are
my gripes based on my personal experience then I would wager the areas with
which I have no experience are similarly inaccurate.

Edit: Just confirmed with people from Michigan, Indiana and west Virginia.
They all had some pretty raised eyebrows at this map.

Edit2: Asked some Mainers, one called the map "bold".

------
Pfhreak
The "left coast" has a similar idea in Cascadia. Up here in Seattle you'll see
what's called the Doug flag, a symbol of Cascadian independence.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_(independence_movem...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_\(independence_movement\))

------
jmpman
The author hasn’t spent much time in Utah, if he didn’t split it out.

~~~
CalChris
The article aggregates. But outside of Salt Lake City, what did the author
miss? Nevada is different from Las Vegas as well.

I was impressed with the north/south divide in Missouri and the east/west
divide in Tennessee. However, I wouldn't put Santa Barbara, Los Angeles and
San Diego in El Norte. The author may have had better reasons though.

~~~
jmpman
The buzzing beehive? The state is predominantly LDS. It’s one step away from
being a theocracy.

~~~
CalChris
But there are strong patches of LDS in Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico and Idaho.
Harry Reid was LDS. Crapo and Udall are. I'd say LDS is an element of Far West
culture in the way Protestantism is part of New England.

~~~
jmpman
True, but there’s balance in the other states.

------
CalChris
Chicago is in Yankeedom? I don't understand that entire western half of
Yankeedom, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin and Minnesota.

SLO, Santa Barbara, Los Angeles, Orange County and San Diego are El Norte?

~~~
ssully
I got a good laugh out of seeing all of Wisconsin marked as Yankeedom.
Starting to think they did that because it would look weird to have the
majority of Wisconsin being "The midlands" when it's a northernmost state.

------
RickJWagner
I find it to be a sizeable crock.

Look through the descriptions of the regions. Some are lauded for 'valuing
education', 'hard work', etc. Others are tied to slavery, are "intensely
suspicious", and so on.

This is a bunch of sorry tropes that don't hold water. It would have been just
as easy to characterize the lauded regions as homeless poop-havens and the
other parts 'eco-friendly' because the tree-to-human ratio is so much better.

------
kendallpark
This map is really hit and miss for me. As a Missourian, I agree with the way
Missouri is split up, right down the counties.

But the Upper Midwest (sans Chicago) is way closer to the rest of the Midwest
than it is to New England. It has its own distinct flavor compared to the
Lower Midwest. But not in "Yankee" way--more like "pre-Canada."

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jrimbault
I don't know for you, but all images were 404 in this article for me.

[https://web.archive.org/web/20170905210806/https://www.busin...](https://web.archive.org/web/20170905210806/https://www.businessinsider.fr/us/the-11-nations-
of-the-united-states-2015-7)

------
walterkrankheit
I had always divided the US into four separate countries but Woodard's theory
of 11 isn't so far off.

~~~
bcmo
I had a Prof in college who wrote a book about the US being 4 sections since
its founding, he called them folkways

[https://www.amazon.com/Albions-Seed-British-Folkways-
cultura...](https://www.amazon.com/Albions-Seed-British-Folkways-
cultural/dp/0195069056)

------
batterseapower
There is some genetic basis for this:
[https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/02/08/albions-seed-
genotyped...](https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/02/08/albions-seed-genotyped/)

~~~
bcmo
I never thought it had its basis in genetics, though that is pretty
interesting. At least from what I remember in reading Albion's seeds it was
the result of distinct cultures.

I think the division can be pretty broad. I live in Boston, and I've sometimes
heard comparisons of North Shore vs South Shore to be culturally rooted in
Puritans settling North, vs Pilgrims settling in South. Generally genetically
the same but a little different starting point, culturally.

~~~
iguy
There's no conflict here. In a world where people were perfectly blank slates,
and all such patterns were purely culturally transmitted, you would still
expect a giant Yankee blob on the map just because they mostly came from East
Anglia. (And the people of England when they left weren't perfectly mixed,
most had lived in one region for millennia.)

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HocusLocus
Colin Woodard: American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional
Cultures of North America [2011]

Woddard's take on Trump victory

[https://medium.com/s/balkanized-america/the-american-
nations...](https://medium.com/s/balkanized-america/the-american-nations-
trumpism-and-the-2016-elections-653b74bf2ad0)

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bathtub365
The map with the nations extending into Canada makes me think of Manifest
Destiny.

------
montjoy
Ugh. Another attempt to box in geographical regions so the author can make a
name for himself.

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segfaultbuserr
Wrong link. The link sends readers to the bottom of the page

> www.businessinsider.com/the-11-nations-of-the-united-states-2015-7#first-
> nation-most-of-whose-people-live-in-the-northern-part-of-the-country-is-
> made-up-of-native-americans-11

should be

> www.businessinsider.com/the-11-nations-of-the-united-states-2015-7

