
Ask HN: How did you escape your safe 9-5 job? - amadk
How did you escape your meaningless 9-5 job to work full time on what you wanted to work on[1]?<p>Did you have a strategy or was it a leap of faith?<p>Did you regret it later on?<p>Are you happy with the decision you made?<p>Where do you think you would be today if you had decided to stay in that job?<p>If you are currently in a job like that, then do you have any plans of escaping to work on your passion[1]? if yes, then please share your plan.<p>[1] Your passion may be a dream job, a special course (masters, software bootcamp, course in another field like marketing or airplane pilot etc.) or a startup. It just has to be something you love but are not doing because you think you&#x27;re job is currently the safest option for you.
======
codegeek
I bought a side project from someone else that was doing 2K per month at the
time and 4 years later, I have turned it into a 10+ person company (yes
bootstrapped so slow but controlled growth and I own 100% of the company). So
pretty happy about it. It cost me 60K upfront though which I had saved by
working a miserable Wall St. Tech. Job.

I just couldn't figure out how to get out of that routine. I had tons of ideas
but could never work on any of them. So I decided to take someone else's
validated idea and grow it further. The point was to get STARTED somewhere.
Force yourself into it. I forced myself into it by buying that side project
and then quitting my job 4 months later. My income went down but couldn't be
happier.

EDIT: So a few of you asking how I found the project. It was flippa. Yes, I
know it is needle in a haystack. That is where I guess the luck factor comes
in. I was just browsing that day and came across that project for sale. It
looked perfect for me and I talked to my wife and put a bid. Leap of faith
really. I never met the seller but he was an excellent marketer. THe software
was crap but he had already built a very small paying audience which I knew
could do a lot more.

If anyone is interested, I wrote a blog post on how to buy an online business.
Linked on profile.

~~~
jamisteven
Literally in the same position (miserable WS tech gig). How'd you get the grit
to make the jump?

~~~
codegeek
there is no one way really. I just had enough of it and was lucky to have some
money and timing on that flippa project. But I don't consider it just luck. I
think of it as me being proactive because I have been browsing flippa type
sites for years. So the key is: do something. anything. Even if small. But do
it towards your goal.

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
I've found this is a/the key to being successful in anything. Just keep
working at it even if you're only making small steps forward. Each step gets
you closer to the goal and also puts you in a better position to take
advantage of opportunities when they show up.

------
peterwwillis
> How did you escape

Out the window. I had to back up quite a bit and take a running leap, but I
was able to easily shatter the floor-to-ceiling pane glass. Marge from
Accounting tried to stop me, but luckily I had begun taking Parkour classes
recently and was easily able to dodge her.

> Did you have a strategy or was it a leap of faith?

It was a literal leap of faith. Some banners set up to advertise a corporate
conference broke my fall.

> Did you regret it later on?

Well, yes and no. I didn't regret choosing to leave my job, as I was able to
take a chance and see what I could achieve. But I did regret the broken legs
and fused vertebrae.

> Are you happy with the decision you made?

Yes.

> Where do you think you would be today if you had decided to stay in that
> job?

Probably not in this motorized wheel chair...

~~~
tfehring
Should've grabbed some cat-6 cable for a climbing harness first.
[https://xkcd.com/308/](https://xkcd.com/308/)

~~~
quickthrower2
Cat 5a would do

------
thisisit
The whole safe but meaningless job is just romanticization. The same job can
be meaningful if you are working on a good project. It can also be unsafe if
the workplace is toxic.

It is about finding what you really want in life. Sometimes safe but boring is
good enough. But sometimes working on a dream project might feel like a chore
because of the circumstances and people.

~~~
whorleater
I love this response so much because it encapsulates a SO style response of
"why are you soon X, you should do Y instead". The person asked about how to
escape from a job he perceived as meaningless and safe, not a job everyone
perceived as meaningless and safe.

~~~
thecatspaw
But you DO escape a meaningless job by giving it more meaning

~~~
AnimalMuppet
It might be better to stop looking for meaning in your job. I don't think real
meaning is there.

This does not mean that you shouldn't look for a better job, or one that has
_more_ meaning (for you). But ultimately, you need more meaning in your life
than a job can provide. If you try to make your job provide meaning, it
probably won't provide enough, no matter how good of a job it is.

And though a job may not provide real meaning, it can still be really
meaningless. If it's just make-work, if it's just bureaucracy, if it's just
_pointless_ , then by all means, look for something better. Full meaning for
your life isn't found in a job, but a meaningless job is soul-crushing.

------
dejv
I was product manager for fast growing product, but I was waking up at 5am
every morning, just so I can do some coding before work and then do another
coding session after I get back from work.

That managerial job was ok and it paid well, but still my morning/evening
coding sessions is what I was looking for all day. One day I was like "Cmon
somebody will always pay me to write a code." I had some savings, didn't have
kids or mortgage, next day I resigned.

It turned out well, I find maintenance contract doing programming job nobody
wanted to touch (writing internal application in Delphi) that lasted for
decade. I haven't made that much money, but I was able to travel the world few
times over, failed few startups, read a ton, play a music and even bought a
farm (dont ask).

I am in my 30s, having two small kids, mortgage and that farm. Everything is
going well and I am still happy to code everyday and when money get low I go
and consult for startups or something. If I stayed at that job I am sure I
will have some career going on and more stable live, but I am still glad I did
jumped the ship.

~~~
roadbeats
I’m also in my thirties and have a 1 year old boy. I want to wake up at 5, but
can’t find the power and energy. What would you suggest me?

~~~
dejv
I have 9 month old boy and I wake up at 2am, also 3, 4, 5, 5:30, 5:45...
Joking aside, it is just hard to keep any schedule with kids that young. Brace
yourself, in few months your sleep situation is going to get better.

~~~
leopoldo
For you and poster above - I have a 6-month old kid and he's sleeping full
nights since 3-months old. He only missed two nights (one was sick and the
other one just started teething). The resource we used was called "On becoming
babywise", highly recommended! (also, knock on wood, I believe we've been
lucky with the baby, so far!)

~~~
dejv
Each kid is different, you might just get lucky. Our first born was heavy
cryer till her sixth month, then she was sleeping nicely. Second did sleep
very well till 6th month, then teething started and he is just crazy.

------
alex_duf
>Did you have a strategy or was it a leap of faith?

Complete leap of faith. Got a very safe job in the French administration
writing programs that manage pension for public servants and electronically
archive documents. So safe I was bored to death and depressed.

I applied for a Canadian work Holiday Visa, got it with a friend, left and
never looked back. My boss at the the time was so surprised I left such a safe
place he literally told me "You've got balls" ("t'as des couilles"). Truth be
told it was a matter of mental health.

I've spent two years in Vancouver, Canada, learned scala in a startup, met
people I'm still in contact with. Now I live in the UK and work for the
Guardian which is by an order of magnitude the best job I've ever had.

>Did you regret it later on?

Never. It was risky but it also was the best decision of my life. I just miss
being closer to my family.

> Are you happy with the decision you made?

Yes

>Where do you think you would be today if you had decided to stay in that job?

Probably still integrating bloatware in order to manage French public servant
pension, if not in hospital.

~~~
avh02
Nice! The Guardian was my dream job for a while... I put together an
application, submitted it - and a week later all tech job openings
disappeared. open source too - so I found the PR removing the job descriptions
on github, it was quite a funny and surreal experience.

Keep up the good work!

------
projectramo
A risky, non-9-to-5 job can be just as meaningless as a safe 9-5 job.

The hours and safety of the job are not what give the job meaning; it is you
that gives it meaning.

I have worked for large firms and startups (none of them, by the way, were
9-5) and always felt it was a great job to have at the time. There was no
"escape" though since the work was remarkably similar. The startups still
paid.

To put it another way, I think you're looking at the wrong feature set to make
this prediction.

------
bavariancake
It sounds like you overthink uncertainty, which is something I was stuck in
for years. If I just reason it out enough, and have a good idea, and think it
all through, maybe I can solve the problem before I quit that cushy job, or so
the thinking goes.

It turns out that as long as I'm employed as a factory worker cranking out
pointless Jira tickets all day to integrate another A/B testing framework, I
don't have any good ideas. Boring works makes people dull.

How to escape: have f-you money. Pay off debts, save ruthlessly. See e.g. Mr
Money Mustache [0] or The Simple Path to Wealth [1] for more. Bonus: you'll
end up making better decisions at your 9-5 job because _you just don't have to
put up with all that_, if the need arises.

My strategy: realizing that having a boring 9-5 job I found unfulfilling would
make me insanely unhappy in the long term. You can always get another job if
you decide you'd rather do that again.

Did I regret it? Am I happy? N/A. I know for sure I'll regret wasting another
day arguing with a project manager that putting a ticket in the "in progress"
column isn't actually the same as progress. In any case, others' experience
doesn't have any bearing on yours (fortunately!). However, I strongly
recommend against discussing this with your coworkers. They've chosen the same
path you have, and will demotivate you despite having best intentions for you.
If you go on an antarctic expedition, you'll run into a lot of people
interested in the South Pole, and may begin to think it's common to spend lots
of time thinking about penguins or the aurora australis. Well-intentioned but
bad advice is pernicious.

You can't go wrong spending your days doing something that matters to you.

If you haven't read it, I recommend Post Office by Charles Bukowski.

[0] [https://www.mrmoneymustache.com](https://www.mrmoneymustache.com) [1] JL
Collins: The Simple Path to Wealth

------
SmellyGeekBoy
I was deeply unhappy in my job as a web developer. My co-workers were great
but our department (attached to an IT support company) was treated as an
afterthought. Our manager had no development experience and had bounced around
from department to department. He was basically one step away from the door
but the owner of the business didn't have the heart due to personal reasons.

A friend who owns an ecommerce business said that he would create enough work
for me full time for my first 12 months if I set up on my own, as well as
paying me the same as I was earning at my previous employer. My first job was
to build him a new website which involved not only building the site but
migrating all of his product and order data, which kept me occupied for the
first few months. I jumped at the chance, splitting my time between home and
his office at first.

This was 8 years ago and while growth hasn't been explosive, I've been
consistently employed since then and now have 2 full time employees to help me
out, with revenue slowly increasing year-on-year. I still have the original
contract (he started another ecommerce business in the meantime which has
grown to be the biggest in their sector) and have picked up a couple of others
along the way, expanding into industrial software and interactive marketing.
It's a mixed bag, and a lot of fun getting to pick and choose which projects
we want to take on.

I honestly couldn't be happier with the way things went. My life is relatively
stress free and I (and my employees) earn good money off the back of a very
small number of stable long-term contracts. We have a nice office and nice
working conditions. Everything I ever wanted and never got in my old job.

As far as what would have happened had I stayed? The company was acquired and
the web department was eventually dismantled after years of sitting around
with nothing to do. I hear the redundancy packages were half decent, at least.

------
mrdependable
I spent years working on side projects. They were always these apps that
didn't really exist yet, and by the time I finished making them and trying to
market them, I'd realize I had no idea why someone would pay for it. Then I'd
throw it on the trash heap and start the next idea. After far too many years
of this I decided to be more practical about it. At the same time I also cut
my living expenses in half and started saving all the money I could. Once I
released the app a major multi-national company signed up on the first day,
saying they had been looking for something that did what the app does for a
long time. Unfortunately, they were using it in a completely different way
than I had anticipated, and the amount of usage it was getting right off the
bat was way more than I thought it would get when I released it. Keeping up
with the bug fixes and feature requests was too much, and I couldn't stand my
job anyways, so I just gave notice. It's a bit strategy, a bit leap of faith.

This is actually all happening right now, but I am currently very happy with
the decision. I enjoy the risks and the unknowns. They are huge motivating
factors for me, rather than a source of stress. I honestly don't think I could
be happy working for someone else. Every job I have worked at, people justify
bad behavior as just being "good business". I simply can't accept that, and
don't want to be part of it. On top of that, I can't stand giving someone else
so much power over my life. I understand a certain amount of that is
inescapable, but a 9 - 5 just feels oppressive to me.

------
chrisweekly
Got laid off. Started taking contract gigs. Found I preferred it. Partnered w/
a collective of consultants founded by a friend and former colleague.
Established my S-Corp and committed to consulting. Now I make more $ and have
more autonomy than ever before. It comes w/ some uncertainty and some
downsides, but what doesn't? I don't expect ever to go back to traditional
employment.

I haven't yet reached the point where I only ever work on projects that are
particularly meaningful in terms of impact on the world, but I have more time
w/ my wife and daughters and dogs and guitar, and I take every July off to go
sailing... so it's a lot closer to "dream job" than anything else I've yet
come across.

~~~
chrisweekly
P.S. The "safe" job might not be as safe as it seems. Stuff happens.
Acknowledging this reality and being prepared to adapt and move on is crucial,
and much harder if you're complacent and stay put based on the illusion of
security. There's a huge opportunity cost in basing life decisions on risk
avoidance.

As for "meaning", one can find purpose and merit in almost anything, it's more
about mindset than circumstance!

~~~
amyjess
> P.S. The "safe" job might not be as safe as it seems.

It's been my experience that if you can get one 9–5 job, you can get another
as long as you have a nontrivial amount of experience.

For example, I last got laid off in March of 2016. In May of that year, I
applied for a job that I ended up starting in June (and I'm still here two and
a half years later).

------
Spooky23
Just be careful that you don’t use your job as a proxy for life. Understand
what _you_ want first, then figure out where work fits.

------
JunaidBhai
I wouldn't say that I quit because I wanted to work on something that I wanted
to, but instead, I quit and then came up with something that I would love to
work upon.

It was a leap of faith and within 10 days came up with Draftss. 9 months later
we've achieved 8k MRR. ([http://draftss.com](http://draftss.com))

Very much happy with the leap of faith. At present, I wish I would've done it
sooner.

------
everdev
I was laid off in 2008 during the recession.

I always wanted to start a business but preferred the safety of a salaried
position. When that was taken away and no one was hiring I had no choice.

I bought a laptop on my way home and started calling my professional network.
Within a day I had signed my first web design client.

5 years later I sold the company.

Both starting and selling my web agency were incredibly rewarding for my
professional growth.

------
dhumph
Depends. Do you have a family? A spouse? Debt? Do you need meaning in your
work or just a paycheck to get satisfaction out of life. You create your own
meaning or lack of it - the job doesn’t inherently have or not have it. If you
want a more fulfilling life find thing that give you that and do them. they
don’t have to be mutually exclusive.

------
EZ-E
Remember that your job doesn't define you.

If you think of a job as just a tool to make money, lots of the pressure of
having a "meaningful" job goes away. The job has meaning because it allows you
to feed yourself and your family.

~~~
Applejack
That's some any-time-previous-to-the-late-20th-century shit right there. Only
a few decades ago did we start to have the luxury of even thinking our job
should be "meaningful". I often think of a caveman or a child working in a
textile mill or the lead dude in "The Jungle" screaming out "My job has no
meaning!" as they're trying to just not die of starvation. I often find myself
too thinking that I would like my job to have more "meaning", but the truth
is, my boring corporate job provides me creature comforts that most of the
world present or past will never know, and me deeming it meaningless really
points to the fact that I lack volition and drive to make it or my life
outside of work sufficiently(existentially?) meaningful. Still, fuck corporate
bureaucracy that keeps me writing TPS reports instead of using my trade
skills.

~~~
millak
This. Especially fucking the corporate bureaucracy! I always enjoyed my work
before I joined my current company and, with just how _corporate_ it is, it’s
opened up the “where does my meaning come from if not work?” can of worms for
me. I had quite a negative emotional reaction to the workplace at first but
now I realise I have an opportunity to grow by finding meaning somewhere else
in my life.

For reference I work at a large bank, so I suppose the availability/features
of our systems/applications is not meaningless for our customers. That said
there’s no way I can see my professional experience moving forward here. Maybe
experience surviving in a corporate environment counts?

------
gk1
I wrote a longer version of this before[1], but here it is in short form:

> Did you have a strategy or was it a leap of faith?

It was more of a loose plan. I'd been reading Patrick McKenzie's articles
about consulting and knew I wanted to try it. When my 9-5 (more like 8-10) job
pushed me to the edge, I decided to put in my notice and give consulting a
shot.

I had about $30k saved up from four years of 9-5 work which helped A LOT
because I made zero dollars for a few months. But that cushion was a result of
good personal finance decisions, not because I knew I'd quit some day.

> Did you regret it later on?

No, never.

> Are you happy with the decision you made?

Absolutely. I still have challenging moments but they're the good kind of
challenges; interesting and rewarding.

> Where do you think you would be today if you had decided to stay in that
> job?

Miserable. No way my mind or body would survive that long in that environment
for that long.

In short: I made the right decision for myself, but it wasn't a rash decision.
My savings cushion helped me survive for the first few months. Even if things
didn't work out as well as they did, I would have no regrets for trying.

[1] [https://www.gkogan.co/blog/how-i-learned-to-get-
consulting-l...](https://www.gkogan.co/blog/how-i-learned-to-get-consulting-
leads/)

------
guggle
I found a meaningful 9-5 job.

~~~
diafygi
I agree with this. When I had to look for work last, I asked myself what was
the biggest problem I wanted to contribute to fixing (for me it was climate
change). Then, I started researching and networking with people who worked for
companies in that area. Eventually, I got a job in renewable energy. So far
I've loved every minute in this field because I feel it is so meaningful.

There's lots of 9-5 jobs that are meaningful. They may not pay as much as a
meaningless adtech job, but if you're in software engineering, they still
usually pay pretty well.

~~~
hndamien
This is exactly the path I'm on, software eng in ad tech would love to help
the cause for addressing climate change - any advice?

~~~
diafygi
Sure! Check out this post (and posts like in my comment history).

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15127154](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15127154)

Also, if you're in the bay area, start coming to events on my
bayareaenergyevents.com calendar. Software engineers usually have no issues
finding jobs once they come to a few events and learn who's hiring.

------
muzani
If you're a Malaysian, it's a no brainer.

A senior tech job pays about US$1000-$2000 per month. Maybe $3000-$6000 for
managers/VP of listed companies. Conditions can be poor. Long hours at work,
long hours in traffic, 14 days of vacation. Aggressive people. Pay is often
late with startups, and the norm is paying on the 5th of the month.

The trick is to work foreign jobs. I make about US$35/hour freelancing, which
is a very comfortable amount for me personally, and also well below the usual
rates internationally. I can live in a comfortable area away from the city
with good food, good traffic, and fast internet.

If I can just make an international SaaS thing at $1000/month, that should be
enough spare change to buy a family house.

------
tmaly
I did not escape in the physical sense, but I picked up side projects to keep
building out my skill.

I make it a priority to try to find more interesting work and projects that
will add value to the company.

I have tried for many years to create a profitable side project, but I am
still trying. You have to be careful about survivorship bias when you hear
about successful startup. I am not saying you should not try, I am saying you
have to consider that there are far more failures than successes. Keep that in
mind and try to learn as much as you can along the way.

------
JoeAltmaier
Never had one. Straight into startups right out of college. Never looked back.

The fallacy is, that a corporate job is safe. One startup got bought by Dell,
then we got laid off. Hadn't been laid off before.

------
EngCanMan
How did you escape your meaningless 9-5 job to work full time on what you
wanted to work on[1]? I assessed the 'worst case scenario' vs current scenario
vs best case scenario and threw a reasonable probability at each. Next I
looked at my potential happiness with each. It was quickly apparent that
staying where I was at was the dumbest thing I could do. (also consider how
'safe' your job really is, every company and gov't changes direction from time
to time)

Did you have a strategy or was it a leap of faith? Of course you have to have
a plan or an idea, but then it is just a leap of faith, not much in life is a
guarantee.

Did you regret it later on? Nope.

Are you happy with the decision you made? Yup.

Where do you think you would be today if you had decided to stay in that job?
In that same job, doing the same thing, reasonably happy, but slowly dying.

Background: I am from Canada where the social systems and job prospects are
good, therefore my 'worst case scenario' is not that bad, so YMMV. I also have
an engineering degree to fall on. However; I do have a wife, 3 kids and
mortgage. Honestly, the kids are the only thing that concerned me. Wives can
work too if need be, and mortgages are easy to get rid of.

Worst Case Scenario: Don't let fear of failure (ie Pride) get in the way.
Where is your pride when your dying and full of regrets?

------
brbrodude
I'm delivering my notice today, in Brazil it's 30 days of notice and then I'm
free :)

My plan is to work on my projects, blog, study in both specializing and
generalizing, get in touch with the developer community, do Open Source, seek
remote & independent work, I've saved enough for about a year on a budget.

I also plan to take the opportunity and take a very good care of myself, I
skate and I'm taking up calisthenics, at 31, I'll skate everyday! Small-scale
farming & getting a masters is also planned.

I've been trying to conciliate my actual interests with job unsuccessfully for
about 7 years now(subtracting some 2-3 years from the beginning), I've been
considered above average generally and almost always the employer wanted to
talk me out of quitting but I think I've reached my tipping point, the cost of
this salary is just too high for me. Feel free to get in touch anyone.

~~~
dddw
good luck on your ventures! you sound excited

~~~
brbrodude
Thanks man!

------
aiisjustanif
There are two outlooks. I like to think of them as theory vs practice.

In Theory: "Do what you love, and you’ll never work another day in your life."

In Practice: "It's not about where you work, it's about who you work with."

The theory is achievable, but it ignores working with people. The practice can
tend to avoid obtaining your ideal work to perform, but can lead to more
satisfaction among most people.

Working on a dream project can feel like bore or a nightmare due to the people
or dependencies. Sometimes safe but boring is awesome because it still might
challenge you and the people around you are amazing, they pick you up when you
are down, support your failures, and celebrate your success. Ultimately it's a
balance that we all have to find.

------
eaandkw
I ended up retiring from the military. It wasn't 9-5 and it wasn't meaningless
but it was soul sucking at times. I originally planned on getting into
information security/ cyber security but a good opportunity popped up to own a
franchise that does stretch therapy and I took it. Right now I am able to make
a difference in other peoples lives by reducing pain and increasing mobility
thru stretch therapy. Running a business has also been extremely educational.
Especially coming from a military background.

For the information security side of the house I am just doing my own thing
learning pentesting and reverse malware analysis. It is still fun but I have
less time to do it as I would like.

------
w1nt3rmu4e
Started my own company with a couple of partners.

Lots of risk and hard work, but it can pay off. It did for me. Not really that
company, though it was successful, but companies I started after that which
were more closely aligned with what I love to work on.

My plan was to become my own boss, or at least a boss. Turns out it's not that
black and white, but it defined my career for the better.

I will say this:

Taking calculated risks is as important, or more, than any other factor in
what you'll accomplish in your life. I've seen _many_ otherwise very talented
people get stuck in local maxima because they're afraid of failure.

Listen to your instincts. Take risk.

------
Hernanpm
Read Mastery by Robert Greene, great resource that talks about this topic
widely.

------
Lumiaric
This was me at my last job. I was there for 10 years, stuck for 5. As other's
have said here it is as simple as just quit, but go deeper than that. I'm sure
you have come to the same conclusion on how to escape, but you should since
down and ask yourself, "Why haven't I quit yet?". Are you simply scared of
failing somewhere else, knowing that your current situation is guaranteed? Are
you not confident in your skills? Analyze the reasoning for your reluctance,
and then working on your confidence. This is at least what worked for me. Good
luck!

------
benmorris
I had a "plan" but it was still a leap of faith, leaving a 8-5 steady job with
no income. My enabling factor was a good amount of savings and low debt. I had
around 1 year of comfortable living to figure it all out.

Staying at my last job wasn't an option so I'd have a different job for sure,
but not satisfied with what I was doing with my time. I find running a
business and developing my own products much more rewarding. 7 years later I
don't have any regrets although running a business is a whole new set of
challenges.

------
ccampbell
It was part strategy in that I kept my day job (web developer at a university)
and split my paycheck with my two co-founders so that we could start our
business/product. I would work on the idea on nights and weekends.

Luck and faith came into play when we applied to YC and were accepted. At that
point I quit my job to move to Mountain View.

There are no regrets today, but it was a difficult decision at the time.
Keeping my day job allowed me to still feel secure while also pursuing
something ambitious.

------
anonnyj
By taking a massive pay hit over my potential, and teaching 2 days/week in
China. I'd honestly rather die than getting stuck in a make-work 9-5 in
America.

------
Double_a_92
Earn that much that you can afford to work just 80% or 60%. 60% would be ideal
since it gives you a 4:3 ratio of free days, which is more than half the week.

------
LeonM
Just quit.

Really, that's it. Just quit, and go do the work you enjoy.

~~~
cube00
Sorry, but this is terrible advice. Do not quit until you have something else
lined up. Quitting with no plan for the next day will leave you out on the
street. Go part time if you want more time to set something up.

~~~
LeonM
Well, obviously you need to have either money or a plan so you don't end up
homeless.

The OP edited his question after I replied. When I wrote my reply the question
was a oneliner: "how do I escape my meaningless job"

------
caurusapulus
[https://80000hours.org/career-guide/](https://80000hours.org/career-guide/)

------
ianai
Those questions seem like they’re a part of a course assignment. Ie the
replies here will be reproduced in an essay.

~~~
cube00
> Your passion may be a dream job, a special course (masters, software
> bootcamp, course in another field like marketing or airplane pilot etc.) or
> a startup. It just has to be something you love but are not doing because
> you think ( _you 're_) job is currently the safest option for you

Hopefully it's not part of a course assignment otherwise the instructor may
need a course of their own.

------
malicebird
I've been having the same questions which led me to so good they can't ignore
you. The concept of career capital really resonated with me. For me it's about
bringing more value to my current organization and to myself to stay in my
current job and role, current job new role, new job or on my own.

------
Jach
> If you are currently in a job like that, then do you have any plans of
> escaping to work on your passion? if yes, then please share your plan.

I wouldn't really call my current job 'meaningless', it's nice to work on
something that customers actually value (I get to say "someone wrote a book
about the product I helped make" which is pretty cool) and isn't adtech or
analytics tech, but it is annoyingly safe and I've been thinking it's probably
time to look into a different environment. 3 years ago I estimated a 55%
chance I'd still be here, it drops to 35% chance in another two years. What
keeps me? Part of it is I've done the math on early "retirement" (having
enough investments to live off a % of interest/dividends) and if I stick it
out a few more years into my early 30s (I'm 28) I'll be at a spot with a nice
buffer to be fine even in years like 2018 where the final 1YR ROI for the S&P
500 was negative.

Alternatively I could try switching jobs to another bigco that gives out more
stock in annual compensation and maybe cut that need-to-work figure by a
couple years. As another alternative I could join various kinds of startups.
In the worst case for that (at least given what I would settle for, e.g.
especially now startups can band together into group insurance policies I'm
not going to accept a role without some sort of advantaged medical insurance
plan vs paying for one all myself) I just pay my current cost of living and
don't raise more savings until I have to get another job, so that extends the
time frame of "retirement". Perhaps in a close-to-average case it doesn't
change the years-to-goal line too much as startups with funding can at least
pay semi-competitive base salaries. In the best case it cuts the years
required by a few years (like another bigco job) due to a quick IPO or
acquisition. So ultimately on the financial front there's not a strong reason
to change right now. I can afford to be picky and wait to see if something
comes along that stirs the "I actually _want_ to do this for its own sake"
feeling (due to technology, the nature of the problem, or the people I'd get
to work with). Perhaps that thing will be my own thing and I'll make a startup
for it then. "Retirement" I often put in quotes because I do think there's a
strong possibility of continuing to work, just not in the traditional sense.
My dad just actually retired, I don't think I could last until I'm 60 without
a much stronger external driving influence (e.g., a kid, or a mortgage).

------
Kevin_S
I had an extremely easy gov contractor job that paid really well, used my
skills, and I worked with great people. I still was living for being off work.

Decided to pursue a PhD, which requires about 20x effort but I like coming to
the office every day to work. Huge difference for my mental health.

------
dacur
I worked in a support position w/ the DOJ for several years. After my pay was
frozen for two consecutive years, I realized I hated what I was doing anyway
and quit. Attended a coding bootcamp and have been a paid dev for about five
years. Best decision ever.

------
vectorEQ
before you can get something in your life, you need to have space for that.
the trick is to know yourself enough, that way, you can choose what you
actually want. if it feels like a leap of faith, then probably you have too
many unanswered questions (about yourself)

------
yitchelle
I don't particular the implication that a safe job should also be consider as
not meaningful. Would you continue doing a job that is meaningful but unsafe
(kinda like a lot of the US public servants now due the US gov shutdown but I
digress)?

------
raptorraver
I switched to management role in game development couple months ago. Now I’m
broken and miserable and sending applications to get back to sofware
development. Managing others just isn’t my cup of tea, no matter how cool the
project is.

------
known
Self-actualization in
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs)
?

------
eli_gottlieb
I got laid off. Twice. And decided, fuck it, the world was a garbage fire, I
was going to go do the PhD program and academic career I'd always wanted.

Seems to be working so far, though I'm super tired all the time.

------
arbol
You need to find autonomy somehow. More info here
[http://www.paulgraham.com/boss.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/boss.html)

------
antisthenes
Find meaning in your 5-9. That's the best I got at the time. Once I escape the
9-5, I'll let you know :P

But for most people, the best way is probably FIRE.

------
djohnston
it was a leap of faith and the best decision i ever made.

i left my cushy consulting gig for a small startup that was acquired a year
later. if i had decided to stay there, i would likely be doing the same
meaningless projects for about 5% more than I was the year before.

------
Deestan
Is a safe 9-5 job inherently "meaningless" now?

I am good at software development. I help a company with software development
8 hours per day and they pay me for my time. They take care of hardware, air
condition, desk space, social stuff, cleaning, internet connection, tax pre-
deduction and regular payment transfers. I get to focus on what I'm good at.

My colleagues are pleasant and my work tasks are challenging.

In the evenings and weekends, I spend time with my family, make things for
myself, or play games alone or with others.

~~~
rv-de
What does your company sell?

~~~
userulluipeste
I haven't up/down voted you, but I think I understand why others did. Your
comment appears either as relevant to or an off shot from the perceived topic,
thus gets judged and receives its due votes.

~~~
rv-de
How is the the product not relevant to the meaningfulness?

~~~
userulluipeste
It may happen, say... when the love is gone yet almost everyone hearing what
you're working on expects you to act delighted.

------
wetpaws
I replaced my with safe 9-5 meaningful

------
throwaway909808
I really need advice, I'm in this exact situation and I'm feeling lost.

I'm gonna go throwaway since I really need to spill the beans here:

My story is full of 'pendulum swings' and 'comparisons' and I can't really
make up my mind. I need help.

\- I am married with children.

\- I live in Brazil, which is shitty right now, as most of you know (far-right
trigger-happy president just got elected). Lots of unemployment going down
here, people are genuinely struggling. Basically everyone knows someone
unemployed or in bad shape financially.

\- I managed to somehow escape all the suffering from the last 3-5 years by
landing a .gov job several years ago. That means I currently have a good
stable income, I am able to afford a mortgage and a comfy home, I have a car
and health insurance. Not much money left at the end of the month but
everything is properly paid and managed. And I basically cannot be laid off
unless I do something really bad.

(Lots of people here would kill to have this job -- in our culture landing a
.gov job is synonymous of "having made it", because the majority of Brazilians
don't really enjoy hard work -- they measure success by your amount of free
time).

\- Problem is, my current 8-5 job is as meaningless as one can imagine. I
siphon data thru python scripts and write excel spreadsheets, deal with lots
of useless crap, data that is not going to be used for anything, and that's
it. It's a .gov job after all, filled with bureaucracy and useless stuff to do
just to fill time. It makes me feel really empty and after all these years I
have ended up developing Generalized Anxiety Disorder and Panic Attacks ;(

\- Otoh, before working here I worked on places in which I've consistently put
70h+ work weeks, I was really fat and my overall health (blood pressure,
sugar, cholesterol levels) was poor. After joining this boring dayjob I
managed to have more time for exercising and hobbies and I ended up losing an
excess of 50kg, which was really good to me. My health is mostly in check,
besides my anxiety which fucks me on a weekday basis (I almost don't have it
on weekends).

\- After I arrive home from my dayjob I'm usually so stressed out for not
really doing anything meaningful (which worsens my anxiety) that I have
several freelance gigs lined up so I can 'feel alive' for a bit. I am a
systems developer and I have almost 20 years of UN*X experience, which lends
well to these kinds of custom workloads where they need specialized solutions
and whatnot. When I'm in the zone doing this kind of work at my home office, I
have no anxiety whatsoever.

\- I know I need more free time for my family and the kid. I don't think I
should be living two work lives for that much time or I'll end up not seeing
my kid grow up or something. As much as the freelance gigs make me feel really
accomplished, I realize I also need time for "real" hobbies (music making,
woodworking), exercise, etc.

\- All these freelance gigs helped me shape my career outside of my day job
and build a good network and portfolio of solutions and cases. I currently
have some interviews lined up with recruiters from Europe, and some are going
pretty well. I think I might score a job there soon-ish and if that happens
I'll be offered to move. That means abandoning my "dream job" here.

\- Thing is, I don't know how it can turn up there, it could be good, it could
be bad and if I come back I'll not have my safe job anymore, and I'll end up
being thrown into genpop without any kind of safe net which is much needed in
this extremely volatile environment that is Brazil right now. And now I'm
older and I have a mortgage and a kid.

\- I am currently "taking a hit for the team". Not happy at my dayjob, but I
do it anyway and I "like it" because I am thinking about how I am able to keep
my family together and well-fed, while several people are losing their houses
etc and suffering a lot. It really is a 'lesser evil' situation.

My doubts are:

\- Am I complaining on an full stomach? Should I stick to my safe job and not
go into unsafe adventures?

\- What if I end up hating there as well and regretting not having valued my
current safety as much as I should?

\- Otoh, what if I am losing myself into this hole of a job and living a
lesser life, for me and for my family? Emigrating to a better place could mean
more work and less slack but also living in a better place, with less crime
and with a better overall quality of life.

Doubts doubts doubts.

I'd appreciate your sincere opinions! I'm gonna come back in a few hours to
read the replies.

Thanks in advance and have a good day, y'all! o/

~~~
tcrow
"\- I know I need more free time for my family and the kid. I don't think I
should be living two work lives for that much time or I'll end up not seeing
my kid grow up or something. As much as the freelance gigs make me feel really
accomplished, I realize I also need time for "real" hobbies (music making,
woodworking), exercise, etc."

This bothers me. You made a decision to start a family, when you did so, you
made a commitment to uphold their well-being to the best of your ability.
Living "two work lives" will most likely have detrimental effects on your
relationship with them. I know, I've been there. Be careful to balance your
needs with those of the ones you love, they are more important than some
temporary high of doing fun work on the side. Yes we need to do meaningful
work in our lives, but not necessarily at the cost of these other meaningful
things. As a programmer (and creative) with a family, I completely understand
where you are coming from. As a loving father, it is easy to make the
necessary sacrifices. I hope you find more meaningful work soon, but unless
you breath that work with your heart and soul (which is rare), it will always
be just that, work, and at best a fun distraction you will trade for time.

~~~
throwaway909808
thank you for your reply!

------
massung
I'll prefix my answer with a definition:

adj. meaningless - not bringing a sense of meaning, satisfaction, worth,
value, or purpose.

Now onto my response...

I was in AAA video game development, and regardless of what game I worked on,
it was always the same thing each cycle: solve the same problems, work long
hours on a game I'd never play myself, often detested, and maybe get some kind
of a bonus or vacation time if it did well. Rinse and repeat, only each cycle
was worse as I got older, had a family, wanted to spend time with them, and
learned from past mistakes, but the designers got younger (from my
perspective) and wanted to continually make all the same mistakes over again.

After a while, I came across - and read - "What Color Is Your Parachute"
([https://www.amazon.com/What-Color-Your-
Parachute-2018/dp/039...](https://www.amazon.com/What-Color-Your-
Parachute-2018/dp/039957963X)), which was fantastic!

At the time I was working for Disney and used the strategies I learned to come
up with a plan to make connections outside my studio, learn a few new things
while helping with other issues. Eventually (it took about a year) it paid off
and I was moved + promoted to a completely separate division. I was still
helping the game studios, but doing work that was far more rewarding to me and
I was learning new skills: big data, ETL pipelines, databases, etc. And, I was
able to apply all my existing knowledge and experience to that new position to
make it better. I may not know Kafka yet, but I knew how to integrate pipeline
code into the game engine using very low memory and CPU.

Time goes on, and - after helping someone else with a Scala + database problem
on Reddit, I ended up landing a job using all my new skills at The Broad
Institute helping with genetics research. I can't say that I've ever been
happier or ever had a job that was more meaningful. I go to conferences now
and meet people who are actually using my tools, REST APIs, etc. to cure
complex diseases. And I'm learning so much more than I ever thought I would.

Back to your questions:

> Did you have a strategy or was it a leap of faith?

It was a strategy. I think when you're young and don't have a family it's easy
to take big risks and leaps of faith. That was not an option for me. But, I
think that believing that I _could_ successfully make the transition was a
leap of faith.

> Did you regret it later on?

There was one point early on I did. I knew game development inside-out and was
an authority on the subject. If I said something in a meeting it was taken
seriously. It was hard to go back to being the newbie. After a while, though,
that went away. I absolutely do NOT regret it now.

> Are you happy with the decision you made?

Couldn't be happier. Life is better on every single front for me. I'll also
note that much of that is intertwined. I'm happy (with work), so I act happier
(at home), which means the family is happier (around me), and it all feeds on
each other.

> Where do you think you would be today if you had decided to stay in that
> job?

Do the same shit over and over again, until something happened to the studio
and I was let go. Eventually, I'd be a 50-year old game developer that no one
would hire because my price tag would be too high, and I wouldn't put up with
someone telling me to work 80 hour weeks.

> If you are currently in a job like that, then do you have any plans of
> escaping to work on your passion?

No.

But, I'll answer this a little differently than you probably expected. At
every job I've had - until now - I've always had side projects and little
programming things I did for fun at home. I always had an "itch" that wasn't
being scratched by my day job. That's no longer the case. I get fulfillment at
my job, and if there's ever anything I'd like to explore, I'm lucky enough to
be working where it is actively encouraged.

In summary, I'm not sure if your question was a kind of "poll" for something
else you're working on or if you are looking for encouragement to escape a job
that you find meaningless. Assuming it's the latter, I would suggest reading
the book linked - or at least enough to get you going. It has many great tips
for helping you discover what's actually important to you, and then how to
come up with plans on how to get there. It may take a while, but often, simply
having a plan and sticking to it (and being able to see the light at the end
of the tunnel) is enough to keep your spirits up.

Good luck!

------
davidscolgan
I escaped the 9-to-5 with freelance web development. I never actually had a
full time job because I decided I never wanted one when I was doing a summer
job in college that required me to sit in one place programming for 6-8 hours
a day. I discovered Hacker News around that time and the idea that I could
make money on my own and was hooked.

I started out doing what basically amounts to working in an agency. A business
guy I graduated with wanted to start a marketing company and he got the jobs
and I built the websites. It was still a contract setup and I made $50 an hour
because Hacker News told me that $50 was a good starting rate so I asked for
it and he gave it to me.

Then I got into doing Django web development and charged around $90/hr because
I got a lead and I didn't really want the work so I said, "My rate is $90/hr"
and he said "okay" and from then on my rate was $90/hr. (Ha!) I just recently
got $125/hr in a recent project.

Starting when I was still sort of in college helped a lot. Living in small
town Indiana where the college was and this company started out helped a lot
lot. Rent at the time was $150/month with a roommate. Having very low expenses
meant I could experiment more and not have to worry as much about paying rent.
Not having any dependents helped too.

The biggest advice I have to anyone who wants to go out on their own: learn
business skills. If you already know how to develop, you may think that's all
you need. It's a meme at this point that "If you build (a SaaS) they will
come." No, they really wont. You need marketing, marketing, marketing, and
coding to build a webapp.

This is why I recommend people start out freelancing first. Then go into
building consulting services. And _then_ build products. Freelancing is so
much easier to make money with. Any competent developer can get $100/hr+ with
some networking. That will teach you how to talk to clients and how to sell
yourself. All things you need if you are going to sell products, but it's way
easier and you don't also have the burden of designing a good product.

Consulting services are very lucrative, but require even more business sense.
If you can business and code at the same time, you are in a verrrrry small
percentage of people, and have superpowers.

Build your audience somehow. You'll need one if you are going to sell a
product. Make the product first as a service that "doesn't scale". That is,
manually implement the business outcome your software would give your customer
manually yourself.

Then if you feel the need build a product based on your consulting business.
Create rungs on a "product ladder" \- free content you put out, paid info
products, higher price consulting services, and then at the very top automate
all of it in software. It's a model I've seen a number of people do that will
be a lot "less risky" than quitting your job and building a webapp blind
without anyone watching.

I tried this once. I quit all my freelance work for a year and lived off of
savings. I then proceeded to not make anything anyone wanted and just ended up
spending all of my money. Then I got back into freelancing and have money
again.

In general, this strategy is: "Have safe money and risky money". Your
employment is safe money. It's boring, but safe. If you want to get out on
your own with less risk, figure out a way to get more time but keep that safe
money (maybe try to reduce hours, maybe try to reduce your commute, maybe try
to work 4 days a week), then pick up freelancing part part time. Then once
freelancing becomes "safe money", quit your job. Work on freelancing part time
and build a business that is "risky money".

This is what I'm now doing and I have managed to make a reasonable living
while having a lot more time to pursue ventures I'm passionate about. I still
spend about 20 hours of my day doing "boring" web development work, but it
pays for the rest of my life. I'll probably always keep at least a little of
that work because it pays so well for the time put in.

Happy to talk about this more, this subject is of great interest to me and is
something I've thought about a lot. My email's in my profile if you want. I
think your mindset is more reasonable than many people seem to think, and I
wish you the best in your quest to find work you love. It's a long term
process but in 10 years of doing this I wouldn't have it any other way.

