
Why did United neglect to tell parents of a minor she was rerouted? - courtneypowell
http://www.publikdemand.com/blog/letter-to-united-ceo-jeff-smisek-why-did-united-neglect-to-tell-parents-of-a-minor-she-was-rerouted-and-leave-her-in-an-airport-for-ten-hours/
======
venus
What is this hysterical nonsense? Fine, UA should have called the mother to
let her know what was going on. Someone screwed up. But they obviously went to
a lot of effort to take care of the kid, putting her up in a hotel to wait for
the next flight, with a UA employee of the same sex chaperoning her.

The case was seized upon by what appears to be a professionally outraged
busybody trying to "monetize" shrill complaints against big companies, and
they get banned. So what?

I am no fan of UA but this is a storm in a teacup. The mother should just
chill out, and "PublikDemand" should learn that a kid not talking to her
mother for a couple of hours does not constitute a national emergency.

edit: Just read the "complaint". [http://www.publikdemand.com/blog/letter-to-
united-ceo-jeff-s...](http://www.publikdemand.com/blog/letter-to-united-ceo-
jeff-smisek-why-did-united-neglect-to-tell-parents-of-a-minor-she-was-
rerouted-and-leave-her-in-an-airport-for-ten-hours/)

I feel sorry for the kid, yes - because of her irrationally overprotective
mother. And the exaggerations amount to lies in my book - at no point was the
child "stranded", nor made to stay with an actual stranger. One wonders, if
"strangers" are so inherently evil, what the mother was doing sending her
precious little angel onto an entire plane full of strangers. Stranding her on
the plane, even!

Yeah, UA could have done better, but it's not like the kid is dead, for fuck's
sake. Can we have some perspective please?

~~~
ajtaylor
From your tone, I'll assume you aren't a parent. The parent purchased a ticket
with a specific itinerary plus paid extra for a chaperone. If my daughter was
flying alone and my wife got this kind of call from her, you can rest assured
that she would move heaven and hell to get things sorted out. From personal
experience, never underestimate the power of a mother protecting her child.

PublikDemand aside, United failed big time. First by changing the itinerary
(I've never had this happen to me) and second by not contacting the parents.
Yes, the girl is fine, but that's really not the point.

~~~
venus
> United failed big time. First by changing the itinerary (I've never had this
> happen to me)

This happens pretty often if you are a frequent traveller. Things go wrong! It
may be an inconvenience but it is certainly not a "fail".

> and second by not contacting the parents

Right. So that's what this is all about. Someone at United Airlines forgot to
make a phone call, or couldn't get through, or maybe the number was illegible,
or something. That's all this is about. Absolutely, totally undeserving of
this reaction.

~~~
ajtaylor
You doubtless fly more than me so I'll take your word for it regarding
itinerary changes.

You still don't get it about the contact. It's a child traveling alone. Should
the airline just throw them to the wolves?! Or assume that everything will be
ok? No, they should not! The parent paid EXTRA (and many airlines require the
unaccompanied minor fee) to ensure the child would arrive as expected. It was
their absolute obligation to inform the parents when things changed. Why the
hell didn't the chaperone call the parents? If United couldn't find the
number, the child certainly knew it!

And it's not just about "someone forgetting to make a phone call". The parents
asked for updates and got stone walled by Customer "Service". That was salt in
the open, bleeding wound. So yes, it's absolutely deserving.

If the airline doesn't want the trouble with unaccompanied minors - DON'T SELL
THEM A TICKET. By taking the parents' money the airline willingly assumed the
obligation. What more is there to discuss?

------
shrikant
All this reminds me of when I used to fly internationally as an "Unaccompanied
Minor" in the early 90s.

This clusterfuck would NEVER have happened back then (at least never happened
to me..) -- kids travelling alone were treated like royalty.

I'd randomly get bumped up to First Class, be able to use the nice lounges in
airports, and got put up in really nice hotels when flights were delayed too
long. All this amidst a constant stream of little delights (candy, toys,
snacks, compliments from the stewardesses for being well-behaved).

Ah, those were the days!

/end curmudgeonly old fart mode.

~~~
ajross
Nah, you're just lucky. I'm an older fart than you, and pretty much exactly
this happened to me in 1984. The airline had a delay, bumped my friend and I
(13 and 12 years old) to a later flight (NY -> Paris!), and didn't tell
anyone. And of course we were too dumb to call someone too.

This isn't an issue of malfesance or neglect. It's just what happens when a
bureaucracy hits a situation it didn't forsee. You can only "fix" it with
common sense, which was in no greater supply 30 years ago than it is now.

------
kevinpet
I'm somewhat surprised that the regulators are not cracking down on these
incidents. This is not the first time we've heard of kids being stranded and
not getting the chaperone that parents paid for. Refunding the chaperone fee
is a bit like choosing to refund the cost of insurance rather than pay a claim
-- the fee is far more expensive than the usual value of the services, and
it's only paid to protected against unusual situations like a flight rerouted.

This is a bit like a hosting company offering a 24/7 support hotline for a
monthly fee but never staffing it, and only refunding it when people complain
after failing to get through to the support hotline.

~~~
cmiles74
Here's the HN thread on an earlier, equally egregious error on the part of
United. This one also involves United taking money for their chaperone service
and then failing to follow through.

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4379599>

------
pud
Part of me feels bad for United here.

They're bound to make some mistakes when flying millions of people around the
planet every day. But thanks to social media, all it takes is one of those
mistakes to turn into a viral blog post -- and now you've got a PR crisis.

Not defending United or saying they didn't screw up. They did. But dang it, as
an entrepreneur, that business seems really f'ing complex and I feel for them.

~~~
rhizome
The "problem" is that these social media users can sometimes achieve parity in
expectations. United (and business in general, on the large) expects people to
take what they're given for the price they pay. "You pays your money you takes
your chances." That "one tweet" or whatever is seen to cause United problems
is evidence of how inured we have become to their abuses. Your critique kind
of reminds me of police vs. video, "Hey, you're not supposed to have any power
here." Why should a business deserve sympathy? They certainly don't have any
for us in the profit-margin-improvement meetings.

The entrepreneurial lesson to be learned here is not to sell items you can't
provide.

~~~
jowiar

        The entrepreneurial lesson to be learned here is not to sell items you can't provide.
    

Like sending people zooming through the air from point A to point B for a
price that people are willing to pay for it[1]?

[1]:
[http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2011/11/29/american_...](http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2011/11/29/american_joins_long_list_of_airline_bankruptcies/)

------
alayne
This reminds me of the issue with Dave Carroll
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Breaks_Guitars>. As a company, you can't
afford to get yourself in conflicts with people who have genuine issues and
are savvy with social media.

~~~
courtneypowell
I agree! I am not sure why they have yet to learn from the past.

------
javajosh
I propose a solution to this and all related problems. It is a law that every
legal entity in the United States must maintain a public, permanent record of
any and all complaints against it. They may choose to publish individual
responses, but this is not required.

This would solve the problem of aggregating complaints. The first line of
defense of a large entity is information asymmetry: they isolate the customer,
make them feel like their problem is unique, or that it's no big deal, no-one
else cares, etc. In this case, United (correctly) realized that PublikDemand's
twitter account was successfully serving as a de facto complaint database, and
acted to remove it.

Knowledge of other customer's complaints is a powerful weapon for any customer
with a problem. It tells them that they are not alone, that the company has a
problem, and opens the possibility of combining forces to take action against
the company: the cost-burden of legal action against the company can be shared
between plaintiffs, a kind of psuedo class action suit.

As it stands, only the most sensational horror stories are seen, and they are
not reported in a way that is easily searchable or usable for the next
customer that is abused and whose abuse is buried by information asymmetry.

~~~
courtneypowell
This is a difficult problem to solve, one that we have been working on for a
while at PublikDemand. We have hoards of people with the same complaint
against a company and are trying how to best unite them and allow them use the
collective voice to demand change.

~~~
javajosh
The problem is that the correct place to collect and disseminate these
complaints is at the problem point - and the problem entity has the least
interest in maintaining the information. This is actually a really big
problem.

------
paulsutter
Airlines need to start charging enough for their child chaperone service to
operate it with the level of care and communication required. $150 seems low
for a high touch personal service with brand/life-threatening failure modes.

~~~
thedragon4453
$150 isn't enough to make sure the kid gets to their connection or someone
calls the parents when something goes wrong?

~~~
pavel_lishin
All the facts so far seem to point to that conclusion.

~~~
thedragon4453
I disagree. I think that there are probably no more than 5 kids flying by
themselves on any given flight. I'm not even expecting a 1:1 ratio - I expect
that for those 5 kids, there is maybe 1 person in charge of them. Those 5 kids
are generating $750 in revenue. The expense for a chaperon is whatever a seat
costs, plus that employee's expenses. I'm going to guess that they make a
profit on the service (not to mention I'm doubting there is a special "kid
rate" for a seat).

Now the problem comes when they start cutting costs. The flight attendant, who
used to probably be a well paid, skilled employee who was serving 50 seats is
probably a paid less, shorter term employee now serving 75 seats.

And instead of having a dedicated chaperon, it's probably now just one of
those flight attendants.

That they can't deliver for the price they charge doesn't mean the price is
wrong. If you buy a car and drive it off the lot and the wheels fall off, you
don't say "well, I guess they should have charged me more."

Granted, there is a "too good to be true" factor, but I don't think that $150
to make sure that a kid makes their connection and picks up the baggage is
more than enough. Honestly, I'd expect that as part of the ticket price.

~~~
pavel_lishin
I don't know how chaperone services work, to be honest, but if I were paying
for it, I'd want the chaperone around in the _airport_ , not on the plane
itself. A kid can wander off and get lost, or get kidnapped, or hurt
themselves at an airport, they're not exactly going to get off the airplane
halfway through the flight.

> _If you buy a car and drive it off the lot and the wheels fall off, you
> don't say "well, I guess they should have charged me more."_

But the company should say, "We should have spent more money building this
car, and thereafter charged more for it."

------
courtneypowell
We went to Twitter and made sure that we were not blocked for a violation of
terms and they confirmed we were not and that a user blocked us.

~~~
larrys
Curious what vetting you do of the complaints that you handle this way? What
do you do to verify they are valid and not, for example, hoaxes or even if not
hoaxes that they contain all of the relevant facts and are not slanted in
favor of the harmed person?

~~~
courtneypowell
I personally reached out to the mother, checked the flight records and reached
out to United before sharing anything. We also waited until the child was home
safely before sharing anything.

~~~
courtneypowell
Re: the question on scaling. Our system is built to allows companies to simply
respond to complaints we automatically share with them via Twitter. We then
send the company's response back to the user receive that response via SMS so
the conversation can be continued without our involvement, although we retain
the conversation data privately on our site. This removes us from the typical
dialog we see on the majority of complaints. I only personally get involved
when we see something of an emergent nature.

------
JeremyBanks
Was this Tweet the only one made @United from the account before it was
blocked, or were there others?

<https://twitter.com/PublikDemand/status/309093527697104898>

If that's the only one, that's very surprising. It doesn't seem like the sort
of thing that would spur an instant block, even from an overprotective
overzealous social media rep.

~~~
courtneypowell
They were most likely upset that I called their emergency press line in order
to get the mother help. After I gave United the contact information for the
mother they refused to talk to me further. They blocked us the next morning.

~~~
ricardobeat
I'm not sure things would go well if we started having third-parties take over
all personal business like this. There are lots of things to worry about, and
it's double the work for the company.

------
kingnight
One could swear to never fly United, if one hadn't already done so for
American. Airlines have the worst customer service of any industry. Their
horror stories are actual horror stories.

~~~
svachalek
One interesting property of the insurance industry, as I've heard it, is that
left to pure capitalistic pressures, companies will charge too little to
actually provide the product they are selling.

I don't see why that same problem would apply to air travel but it certainly
seems to be the case. I know airlines outside the US provide a much more civil
experience but I don't know whether they face the same competitive pressures.

~~~
mikeash
In any perfectly competitive market, prices will be driven down to the
marginal cost of the product. This is basic economics.

To the extent that companies are able to make a profit, it's because markets
aren't perfectly competitive. People identify with brands, large capital
investments are often required, regulations have to be overcome, it's illegal
to create a product identical to one already being sold, etc.

But still, many markets come close enough to cause trouble. Insurance may be
one. Airline travel certainly seems to be another one. There's an old joke
that the way to make a small fortune in the airline business is to start out
with a large fortune. In aggregate, the industry appears to take a loss, long-
term, but they manage to keep going through bankruptcy, new entrants, and the
occasional government bailout.

A _lot_ of non-US airlines are national airlines which are somewhat
governmental in nature. They tend to have regulatory advantages and may be
outright subsidized by their government. Their motives may be less about
making money and more about providing services, showing a good image of their
country abroad, and whatever internal bureaucratic motivations they end up
with.

------
hamburglar
This sucks and United should really get a bunch of bad PR over it, but the
real message that I'm taking away is: don't trust a %$&*#! airline company
with your kids. I barely trust them with my suitcase.

------
jowiar
From [http://www.united.com/web/en-
US/content/travel/specialneeds/...](http://www.united.com/web/en-
US/content/travel/specialneeds/minors/faq.aspx)

    
    
        What if my child’s travel is affected by delays, cancellations or other problems?
        It can be very stressful when flights do not operate as planned, especially for unaccompanied children. In the case of weather or other delays and cancellations, United will contact you or the person designated to meet your child at his or her final destination. You can also track the status of the flight on united.com. Advise your child to remain with a United representative at all times. Consider giving your child a calling card or teaching him or her how to make collect calls so he or she can reach you.
    

In short, someone at United screwed up. The chaperone didn't call. That's bad,
and they need to investigate whether this was a one-off or systematic screw-
up.

That said, flying from Great Falls to Nashville (which is already hairy due to
the small regional airports on either end of the journey) on a day where
there's a major winter storm forecast to slam the midwest. This including a
foot of snow on Chicago, which ruins United's system for the day (is this not
a well known fact)? If you don't want to entertain the possibility that your
child might be stranded without you? Fly yourself to Great Falls, meet your
child, and fly back together. Alternatively, driving to Atlanta or Memphis
will up your odds considerably of a successful venture.

    
    
       Instead of sending her on the next flight to Nashville, they have routed her across the country on three connections and is staying overnight in Houston with a complete stranger!
    

United probably thought there was a pretty good chance "the next flight to
Nashville" wouldn't exist (It was delayed 5 hours, arriving in Nashville at
2am).

This doesn't excuse United's behavior, but Ms. Neff-Aguilar could have
prepared better.

~~~
mikeash
Your proposal to plan better would make more sense if airline travel didn't
require an order of magnitude or two more advance planning than weather
forecasts can provide.

~~~
jowiar
Getting stranded is a fact of life when flying. Especially during winter.
Especially with connections. Especially when flying to airports with very few
flights where one missed connection breaks everything.

If, going into the trip, the possibility of her daughter being somewhere
overnight was unconscionable, Ms. Neff-Aguilar could have originally planned
to meet her daughter in Montana and travel home together. Or compensate a
family member / friend in Montana to accompany her to Nashville.

~~~
mikeash
It's not the stranding itself that was unconscionable, but rather the
stranding _plus_ the not telling the parents _plus_ not being reachable by
same parents.

~~~
jowiar
Agreed, which is the unfortunate effect of the vast, vast majority of people
being unwilling to pay more for better service when flying, thus leading to
airlines being badly understaffed. In the Kayak/Orbitz/Hipmunk/Adioso era,
people buy tickets based on price/number of connections, almost entirely
without regard to the airline. The only folks who get better treatment from
the airlines are those who have status (and are thus loyal customers worth the
expense to retain) or who pay extra (first class or a lounge pass).

------
ukd1
Blocking you on twitter was a bad move. Have you got any results since?

~~~
courtneypowell
They have claimed they did not block us but I know for a fact that it was
someone on their team and not Twitter.

------
pheleven
My sister (several years ago) was flying United solo (minor, 17, first solo
flight) from CA to ME, connecting in LGA. Her flight came in late and she
missed the connecting flight (late at night). There were no United employees
on staff (at all!) in LGA at that hour. My mom spent several hours trying to
get someone at United to help her out and they couldn't get ahold of their "on
call" staff member to assist her. They ended up telling her to "sleep on a
bench" and wait till the staff came in some 4-5 hours later in the morning and
someone could get her set up with a new connecting flight. They eventually
offered a $150 coupon for her "next" flight, which will never happen.

------
benologist
The important thing is they're building a new lounge and smisek wore a hardhat
to tell us about it.

Where is the line between civil and criminal when it comes to caring for
children?

~~~
InclinedPlane
It has nothing to do with children, that merely makes the underlying behavior
more obvious.

It's the difference between treating customers like cattle and like human
beings. It's the difference between a company that assumes it is entitled to
the business of its customers and one that believes it has to earn it. Sadly
there are far too many of the first category.

~~~
benologist
I don't think it could be that simple when children are involved, there are
pretty significant consequences for parents that do a shitty job of caring for
them and I assume day care, schools etc have strict regulations.

------
mindcrime
Not necessarily related to this incident, but United really have become my
least favorite airline in many ways. There's just something about dealing with
them that constantly leaves me with this weird feeling, like nobody there
knows what the f%!# is going on. When I've had flights delayed with other
airlines, the process has at least felt organized, and while the delay was
annoying, it never felt like a total clusterfuck. OTOH, with United, it seems
like every time there is a delay, things get, well, weird. There will be 3 or
4 gate changes; airport monitors with information that doesn't match what is
on my phone via their mobile app, neither of which matches the screen behind
the gate agent stand; gate agents who seem totally clueless and so on. At
times, when I fly United, I wonder if I'm ever actually going to get where I'm
going at all.

American, Southwest and Delta all seem to do a much better job of organizing
things, from what I can see. The only thing United really has going for them
is Economy Plus seating, and American is adding a similar feature. Honestly, I
try to avoid United these days.

~~~
paulyg
US Air is like this as well. Always in a state of chaos. They are infamous for
losing bags. I live in a US Air hub city and still avoid them at all costs.

------
RougeFemme
_"As a result, no one has ownership of the minor."_ Maybe no one _by name_ has
ownership, but someone _by role_ has ownership. So whoever is filling the role
for the airline/airport at that time/on that flight/for that airline at that
airport (however the process is defined) has ownership. So there _is_ an
individual with ownership at all times. I agree though, that training may be
sorely lacking for those situations that are exceptions to the normal process.
None of that changes the fact that ultimately, the _airline_ has ownership.

------
brentledent
This sounds much like my family's experience with United as well. I will never
patronize them again in my life. Blocking on Twitter is taking it to a whole
new level.

------
ajasmin
This is more worrying than the typical HN post about having to turn off an
electronic gadget on the plane.

I'm not necessarily saying that United did something wrong though. Planes can
have mechanical issues and there are a bunch of reasons why the mother may not
have been contacted in time. But not knowing where your child is should
definitely get more attention than the typical "they told me to turn off my
iPhone" kind of complaint.

------
anti-pattern
One more reason I avoid flying them whenever possible.

------
ryanmarsh
My client is their biggest US competitor. I've seen operations across many
business units and can say, sadly this does not surprise me at all. The
employees I spoke with told me that the other airlines they've worked at are
similar. The employees generally, across this particular company are generally
very angry, feel screwed by their employer and simply don't care.

------
trotsky
Is there any market sizing or business intelligence data available for the
manufactured internet controversy industry?

It seems to be booming.

------
elliptic
And now Continental's just as bad. Almost makes me want to move to Singapore.

~~~
Adaptive
Upvote. Singapore would probably drive me mad eventually, but there really is
nothing like flying into that airport. My wife and I regularly argue whether
SIN or HKG is superior. Our conversation on entering the arrival hall is
always the same: "maybe we should move back..."

------
umsm
I feel like this is the norm with airlines these days. They're saving pennies,
pushing customers around, delaying almost every flight... It's hard to justify
flying for small trips.

------
courtneypowell
UPDATE: I was able to email Jeff Smisek and the SVP of Customer Experience
directly a moment ago. I will post their response publicly if I hear back.

------
trimbo
Why post it to a blog? I mailed Jeff Smisek directly l about a problem I had
at SFO and he responded in two minutes. On a Saturday.

~~~
courtneypowell
I emailed him directly to after someone sent me his email address a few
minutes ago, and their SVP of Customer Experience.

------
ixacto
I flew united this week, and had zero problems. The TSA on the other hand...

------
rscale
And with a single click, United loses the goodwill they generated when they
delayed a flight so a man could see his dying mother.

Bravo, social media team, Bravo.

