
Georgia defends voting system despite 243-percent turnout in one precinct - LinuxBender
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/08/georgia-defends-voting-system-despite-243-percent-turnout-in-one-precinct/
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powvans
I've lived in Georgia most of my life and we've used these voting machines as
long as I can remember. I've never felt comfortable voting on these machines.
You get the card from the poll worker, you put it into the machine, you make
some choices, and then you hand the card to another poll worker on the way out
the door.

Nothing about that process gives me confidence that the votes are actually
counted after they are cast. I _believe_ they are counted because I still have
some confidence in government. Unfortunately confidence in government is
eroding and these poor processes are not helping.

~~~
drb91
There's a similar process in California, but you get a receipt. Does georgia
offer a voting receipt?

~~~
Spooky23
Receipts are problematic as they enable compelled voting.

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36bydesign
Which is?

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bdamm
Which is where someone pays you to vote a certain way. It follows that they
want proof, so the receipt shows proof of your vote.

I think it's also likely to cause harassment outside of polling places with
gangs on sidewalks asking to see the proof that people voted for their
candidate. You DID get a receipt, didn't you?

~~~
_-david-_
Seems like someone could get a mail in ballet and sell it to somebody else?

~~~
kybernetikos
Yes, this is why I also don't really like mail in voting despite it being so
much more convenient.

I've heard lots of stories where the head of the household fills in the mail
in ballots for the whole family.

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woofyman
>appeared that 276 registered voters managed to cast 670 ballots, the piece
describes numerous other issues with both voter registration and electronic
voting machines. (In fact it was later corrected to show 3,704 registered
voters in the precinct.)

The headline is incorrect. The turnout was 18 percent.

~~~
HelloMcFly
This is the best comment on the reddit thread about this:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Atlanta/comments/95o3g8/georgia_def...](https://www.reddit.com/r/Atlanta/comments/95o3g8/georgia_defends_voting_system_despite_243percent/e3u7lqg/?st=jklqd4h6&sh=b379e73f)

It's not exactly a "nothing to see here" issue just because the issue was
fixed. Further, I'm not exactly brimming with confidence that the new numbers
themselves are accurate. Why should I be?

~~~
bilbo0s
That's kind of the issue. The suit is alleging that the system is prone to
error. To say that there is no problem, and no need for a suit, because - um -
we simply made a fairly common error and now we fixed it ???

I mean, that's what these people are alleging. That the system is prone to
errors.

So whether you believe the original numbers are correct, or you believe the
new numbers are correct, or you believe there are likely a different set of
numbers altogether that better reflect the reality, the premise underlying
your belief _has to be_ that numbers have been reported in error. Logical
consistency for adherence to any of the possible positions demands a
concession that either the first set of reported numbers were erroneous, or
the second set of reported numbers were erroneous. Or, indeed, _both_ sets of
reported numbers were erroneous.

------
hnaccy
I find the use of paperless voting machines extremely suspect. In the best
case supporters of paperless are naive or have had their palms greased by the
machines' suppliers. In the worst case they're actively being used to tamper
with election results.

The longer officials hem and haw over replacing them the more I fear the
worst.

~~~
Shivetya
I want a paper trail and an id. I don't see why we cannot have both as each
camp has reasons for it piece of the puzzle. proof of residence is just as
important as the paper trail.

but what good is a paper trail that does not include a code that can be
scanned to verify it was actually accounted for?

~~~
unclenoriega
It might be possible to have a system that allows you to prove that your vote
was counted, but if you want to prove it was counted _correctly_ , then you
open the door to vote buying and coercion.

Edit: It seems that technologies now exist to fix this problem. Link below
courtesy of tzs.

~~~
tzs
That's not quite correct:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scantegrity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scantegrity)

~~~
unclenoriega
Thanks for the link. I hope that catches on in more places.

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wheaties
I love that they wiped and degaused the servers holding key evidence. Cause
why would you do that if you had anything to hide?

~~~
everdev
It doesn't look good, but isn't proof of guilt. Did they say why they did it?
I'm wondering if they're required to reformat the machines X days after an
election result has been certified. I can't think of other legitimate reasons
though.

~~~
Brass
It's not good.

"On July 3, Marks' organization and state voters filed their lawsuit, and on
July 7, technicians at KSU wiped the server. When the case later moved to
federal court in August, technicians wiped at least one additional server one
day after a federal judge was assigned to the case."

[https://fcw.com/articles/2017/12/08/wray-fbi-georgia-
electio...](https://fcw.com/articles/2017/12/08/wray-fbi-georgia-election-
johnson.aspx)

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jimrandomh
Independent of whether paperless electronic voting systems are _specifically_
banned by law, buying and using them creates the appearance of deliberately
enabling fraud; the consensus among professionals in the relevant fields is
that they're unacceptably insecure.

So why don't we prosecute the voting officials who did this? Or at the very
least get them out of sensitive positions?

~~~
janekm
They should be voted out of office immediately! Oh, wait...

~~~
taneq
"Despite some early hiccups, polls show that 417% of voters support using
these voting machines."

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davidw
In the form of a press release, but Senator Wyden gets it:

[https://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/wyden-
paper...](https://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/wyden-paper-
ballots-and-audits-are-essential-to-secure-american-elections-against-foreign-
hackers)

------
jackfoxy
I spoke with a voting reform activist in San Francisco about a year ago. I
expressed my opinion that one's vote should be securely auditable. He was
horrified. Such a system could be used to buy and sell votes. (In other words
you could prove who you voted for to someone else, if you were so inclined.)

I can't help but think both _sides_ intentionally talk past each other in
order to maintain the status quo.

~~~
basementcat
What would be so horrifying about buying selling votes? (other than the fact
that it is punishable by up to 5 years in prison :-)

Political campaigns could be run more efficiently (directly paying voters
instead of a barrage of ads on radio, tv, youtube, billboard, every yard
sign). Citizens may even pay more attention to important issues as they decide
from whom they wish the accept payment. There would be a strong economic
incentive to ensure that all votes are reliably cast and accurately counted.
Depending on how voter incentives are taxed, local jurisdictions may even have
an economic incentive to discourage (or encourage) gerrymandering.

~~~
emiliobumachar
Tragedy of the commons. _Everyone_ would just sell to the highest bidder,
except a couple idealists.

~~~
basementcat
The USA economy runs this way and it has grown to be one of the largest
economies in the World and had provided it's citizens with one of the highest
standards of living in the World.

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diogenescynic
This is part of a trend—Georgia deleted election data from 2016 when a lawsuit
was filed: [https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2017/10/26/computer-
file...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2017/10/26/computer-files-heart-
georgia-election-security-case-deleted-day-after-suit-filed/803579001/)

How is that not destruction of evidence? Seems clear Georgia has a lot to
hide.

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madengr
Current KS Republican primary spread for governor is 197 out of > 300k votes.
This system needs to be accurate and verifiable.

~~~
redler
And one of the candidates is the Kansas Secretary of State, overseer of the
process.

~~~
madengr
Which is good, as he is one of the few concerned about vote fraud.

~~~
dragonwriter
Kobach has only ever been concerned about forms of vote fraud that don't show
any signs of actually existing, and only then as a pretext for policies that
make legitimate voting more difficult as a tool to disenfranchise populations
likely to vote against him and his party.

Thinking he is actually concerned about vote fraud is like thinking Donald
Trump's cries of “fake news” are signs of a deep and abiding concern for
journalistic integrity.

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exabrial
... wasn't the election integrity commission was mothballed by blue states?

~~~
joelkevinjones
That "integrity" commission was largely tasked with voter fraud, not overall
integrity. See which states are doing the most egregious voter-list purging
(i.e. using first name, last name comparison to determine if two database
entries are the same; ignoring: middle initial, race, DoB, etc.)

