

Ask HN: Unlimited legal advice over the phone, what would you pay? - will_brown

I lost a lawyer's income to focus on my start-up, I think the situation is comparable to an engineer leaving a position at a software firm after 3 years.<p>Something I learned through HN is how many Hackers continue to supplement their income while working on a start-up through "consulting."  Based on many HN posts, I think there would be an immediate need met by offering unlimited legal counsel over the phone for a year based on a flat fee.  I envision this falling between pre-paid legal service, in-house general counsel, and the awesome legal services YC start-ups receive.<p>Included: unlimited phone conferences for advice on forming business, liability and tax related issues to structure, indemnification, state selection for business, necessary business agreements, annual compliance with the state(s), IRS tax compliance, 501(c)(3) determination advice, general agreement advice, help you retain affordable local counsel when requested or advised.<p>Not Included:  Drafting of legal documents, guaranteed review of documents, representation in law-suits.<p>To the HN community would you (your consulting firm), your start-up, ect... be interested in a service like this and if so what would be a reasonable fee for the start-up community?  Should I let the start-up/client dictate the fee?<p><i></i>*This is not an offer of my legal services nor is it a solicitation of representation.
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czbond
Cash is _very_ sparse for startups when they need legal advice the most,
formation. I would suggest anything more than what we'd pay for normal filing
docs ($750-$1k) would be too much to do besides on a month to month basis.
When I've needed the equivalent of in-house counsel, it's been for specialized
knowledge (for us, the Real estate laws) - but that's particular to a niche.

I think the idea has merit.

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will_brown
I completely agree that start-ups would gain the most value with this kind of
legal advice at the time of formation.

I like your suggestion of a flat fee and including the State filing fee. At
$750-$1000 I could advise business start-ups at the time of formation and
"draft/file the docs" to form the company in most States. However, it gets
tricky to have a flat fee which includes the State filing fee in some cases.
Example, in California I would always recommended paying the State to expedite
the formation but its optional, or in New York separate from the State filing
fee LLC's must publish in a weekly and daily paper once a week for 6 weeks and
publication costs are subject to change.

At $1,000.00 I would feel comfortable advising client's before formation and
continue with unlimited legal advice over the phone for the remainder of the
year for the business. However, I think your suggesting $1,000 above and
beyond the State filing fee may not be reasonable for the average tech start-
up, especially because the start-ups would generally only utilize the
unlimited legal advice at the time of formation and little thereafter.

>I think the idea has merit.

Thanks your feedback was insightful and encouraging.

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czbond
Other areas that we've engaged counsel that might benefit you:

\- Specific industry specialties (eg: Crowdfunded sites need S.E.C. guidance,
B2C companies need Contest guidance, Commercial/Residential Real estate needs
H.U.D. guidance.) - a specific package would have been nice. Even if not your
specialty, you could get a lead gen fee. \- Financial instrument
review/drafting (Term Sheets, Conv. Notes, etc) \- Founder / Employee
Dissolution

Just thoughts.

~~~
will_brown
>Just thoughts.

Your comments have been very genuine and insightful.

>Even if not your specialty, you could get a lead gen fee.

FYI and probably good practical knowledge for all founders to know when
dealing with lawyers especially those who use lawyer referral services (1-800-
__*-pain). 1. Lawyers cannot split fees with non-attorneys (whether a lawyer
works with a referral marketing service or a professional CPA who works on the
case as an expert, the lawyer cannot split fees with them). and 2. In most
States, for a lawyer to split a fee with another lawyer a.) the actual % of
the fee split must be in writing and approved by the client (this presents
switch and bait, or you retaining a partner with 30 years experience and your
case getting dumped on a first year, and b.) the fee % must have a
relationship to the actual amount of work done on a given matter (this
practically prohibits a lead gen fee, because a referral alone does not
support a lawyer splitting the fee). Hope this info can help keep some start-
up's legal fees down if not just a little.

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GregBuchholz
I'm not familiar with it, but your idea sounds similar to LegalZoom's plans.

<http://www.legalzoom.com/attorneys-lawyers/legal-plans.html>

(...at least to a layman)

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will_brown
You would be right, it is similar. Also pretty helpful to see what they offer
and their fee ($23.99/month).

It would be tough to match legalzoom's fee. At that point I would simply have
to bring on to many client's to generate a stream of revenue that I would not
be able to continue focusing on my start-up.

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cup
Depends if your advice is binding. I mean if I call and pay for legal advice,
follow that advice and realise I have committed a crime despite being informed
that I was on the right side of the law then what have I paid for?

~~~
will_brown
It would be no different than any other attorney-client relationship.

Interesting fact: If a client commits a crime, it is not a legit defense that
a lawyer said it was ok. Unrelated, but also interesting, if a client commits
a crime, and as a defense proves a government official, whom a reasonable
person would believe has legitimate authority over the matter, said it was
legal then that is a legit defense.

