

Ask HN: Working on Startup projects at night and weekends - zonked

I have lately been bitten by the entrepreneurship bug. I have a couple of ideas in my head which I would really want to get started with now. I work for one of the tech giants in Seattle and was planning to work on these ideas as a side project at nights and on the weekends. Do you think it is a practical approach or should I consider leaving my current job and take a real risk? One thing that concerns me the most is that I would not want these ideas to end up as just another school projects(with focus on just the technical learnings) and want to focus on creating a quality product and it give it a real shot with a quality business idea. Do you think this all can be achieved with side projects? Please share your experiences/suggestions.
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geophile
My story:

In 1995 I had a technical idea underlying a product, and tried to do it at my
current company. It was an uphill slog due to lots of resistance, and it just
wasn't happening. Java 1.0 had just come out. My company was thinking about
client-side Java (which is how Java was initially positioned). My idea made
more sense server-side and I liked Java. I decided that my idea was
potentially useful and decided to do it on my own. I gave myself eight months
to build something and then figure out what to do with it. I had no idea how
to sell it, market it, did zero market research. I have a very understanding
wife.

Eight months later, prototype is done and working great, and I had been trying
to find interested parties. A tech giant in Redmond was "interested", but only
because they were hiring people in my area of expertise. They were going to
buy the software to hire me. It was basically a signing bonus. But I visited
and _could not stand_ the place.

A friend of a friend put me in touch with a VC who put me in touch with a
local startup who bought my software for a decent amount of equity. The
startup went on to a good exit and I lived happily ever after.

Obviously, I was _extremely_ lucky. The idea I just had to work on happened to
actually have some value. But I just as easily could have been fooling myself.
Things are very different now, due to open source, and I think that the path I
took wouldn't work any longer. Certainly not for the technology I worked on,
(there are now many open source products available), but obviously lots of
software that used to be proprietary now isn't.

As for what you should do: Do you have a technical idea, requiring innovative
software? (I'm assuming you are a software engineer.) Or do you have a
business idea that requires only well-understood technology? If it's the
latter, and if you are primarily a techie, the risk of fooling yourself is
much higher.

No matter what you do, be very careful about IP issues with your current
employer. They can lay claim to anything you do while you are employed. Review
your employee agreement and think about whether your idea overlaps anything
your company cares about. I suggest talking to a lawyer with some experience
in IP and employee agreements if you decide to pursue your idea while
employed. (As I was about to sell my software to the startup, my old employer
accused me of stealing trade secrets, which nearly killed the deal. They had
no basis for the charge -- they were on a fishing expedition. But it made my
life miserable for several weeks.)

~~~
zonked
inspiring story. Thanks for sharing this. Well I am a software engineer but
the idea that I have is business idea that requires only well-understood
technology, so yeah the chance of me fooling myself is pretty high. I will
need to check up about the IP issues though.

~~~
geophile
In that case, I'd be very careful about validating the idea before jumping
ship. Talk to potential users, non-techies, ... These are all the things I
personally find difficult, but I recognize they're necessary once I'm outside
my narrow area of expertise.

What it came down to for me was: If I don't try, it will gnaw at me forever,
and I was reasonably certain of some value. Of course, there can be regrets
either way. But I've only had the "itch that must be scratched" feeling about
technical ideas, not business ideas. I think you are in a different situation
since you are a techie with a business idea.

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mgkimsal
Anything can be achieved (OK - I'll never play for the NBA, but _almost_
anything can be achieved).

You may have some legal issues regarding IP if you stay at the current gig and
have any degree of intermingling of your 'work' and your 'side work'. You
should probably review your current work contract, and perhaps seek legal
advice on this point.

You will never have enough time for your side project if you're working full
time for someone else. That said, many people working full time for themselves
still don't have enough time. At least some of this comes down to being
disciplined and focused. You can practice being disciplined and focused while
keeping your fulltime gig, at least for a while longer.

"Burn rate" or "runway" - how much do you have in terms of savings to see you
through? Are you independently wealthy, or do you need a steady stream of
income? If so, calculate out how much you need, then determine what your
comfort level is in terms of 'i could survive X months with $0 income'. My
tolerance for risk isn't what it used to be - I'd want at least a solid year
of expenses banked before I struck out on a venture. But you may be different
- everyone is (kids, bills, etc).

As romantic as 'quit the day job!' is, have a strong plan in place _first_
(imo). You can accomplish quite a lot 'on the side' while testing the waters
before quitting the full time gig. Not _everyone_ can, but many can.

I think we had a session on this at <http://indieconf.com> a couple weeks ago.
:)

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QuasiPreneur
QuasiPreneur.com here. Yup.. I like you been there... err... still doing it.
I've spent several years collecting everything there is to be an Entrepreneur.
From psychology to life style changes to inspirational stories and case
studies. There are over 3,000 articles there. Sorry..not here peddle my stupid
site.. it's nothing more than a collection I made. I started like all good
surfers to bookmark only to return at a later date to no longer being
available! argh@! Thus.. I collected/plagarized but do leave backlinks and
author info.

Some thoughts to your Q:

You need a partner in crime or someone who can hold you accountable. Without
that constant "reporting" of what you've done.. you will be incline to not do.
I think we all know what I'm talking about... we've all been there AND have
done that for sure. I tried support groups looking for co-founder but finding
that even harder than finding a woman to marry. Luckily I've found her.. in
matter of months but co-founder.. after years of meeting dozens and
dozens..nope. why? I realize that they are all "alpha" male like me. Which is
an fortunate and unfortunate trait for a founder. Two alpha's don't make for a
good partner.. they really need opposite traits BUT with the same goal... I'm
finding it's easier to find a snowball in hell ;-)

Last word of advice.. don't goto cafe's.. the environment I found is NOT
conducive to work.. it's more of distractions. I found libraries are the
awesomeest places on earth to work! why? bc everyone else is! And it's quiet,
has bathrooms, wifi, big, clean and don't require you to buy what you
shouldn't do which is 800 calorie frap with 500 calorie donut to patronize the
place. Library cost.. zero. Also a plus.. feels like you're at work! while
cafe is more like a playground.

So.. bottomline from who's still trying to make it... 1\. Keep your day job..
but keep it strictly "8-5" don't bring it home. 2\. just do 2 weekday evenings
and 1 weekend .. all day...if you have a significant other like me.. else
squeeze in another weekeday. Leave Sun for half at most.. else you're going to
burn yourself out. 3\. always prep what you're going to do else you'll spend a
good deal of your time floundering. We all know it takes a good hour to
"start" coding again.. getting into that groove is much easier if you know
what you need to accomplish. 4\. do set small milestones AND a good realistic
deployment date and have it tape up somewhwere where you see it EVERYDAY.
Start with: a) feature list aka eng spec, functional spec, bizplan etc... b)
mockup (I found it best to "emulate" a site that looks like what I want mine
to be for starters) c) Get a quick mockup up and running. It's important to
make visible progress at the end of each day's worth of work. It's a feel good
thing to see progress else you'll lose the "steam" to go further.

Sorry.. this is turning out to be a book.. I'm rambling.. but I hope you get
the gist of it.

If anything.. get inspired by coming to my two sites I got up.. One for
article storage: <http://www.QuasiPreneur.com> Another I just got done coding
from the ground up: <http://www.VentingPost.com>

-QuasiPreneur

PS> Would love to hear some feedbacks on my sites... still coding 3 more
before xmas!!!

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bherms
It depends on the project really. I've been doing the nights/weekends thing
for a while now for a new startup of mine and I couldn't be happier. Could I
launch quicker if I quit my job? Absolutely. Is it necessary? Nope. If you're
happy with your job and enjoy receiving a steady income, keep your job, work
on the project until you get a real gauge of what you want to put into it and
how quickly you want to launch, then make a decision then. My personal plan is
to stick with the job, work on the project until I'm ready to launch, then to
see in a small test market what the viability and money potential really is.
Then, if I think it looks good, I'll quit and dedicate more time. I'm
obviously biased, but it's absolutely possible to build a product in your free
time.

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JerryH
Personally I left and went for it 100%, then I'm 100% committed to getting it
done, and don't have the fall back excuse or mentality of the "day job".

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adamramadhan
yes it will, do you know github ? its a side project btw, try see
<https://gist.github.com/6443> . a must read for side projects.

