

Ask HN: Do things like WakeMate really work? - dataguy

WakeMate lets you wake up at the optimal time in your sleep cycle (https://secure.wakemate.com/).<p>Seems like an odd question, but as I am just about to buy one of these things: Do they really work? I mean: Yes, I know the theory behind it, but: Is anyone here who uses this thing (or something similar) and is really convinced of it?
And how does it feel waking up without these things if you got used to using it?
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brandon
Just a note:

I pre-ordered a WakeMate on November 25th, 2009 with a ship date in January.
After the ship date passed, I got a "we're sorry" email which said that they
tentatively planned to ship them in February. No word until March when they
said they'd go out in March. In April, they told me the following:

"Based on your pre-order date (11/25/2009), you should expect your WakeMate no
later than 07/30/2010."

I've heard literally nothing since. Their website now says that if I order a
WakeMate today I'll get it in September 2010.

I can't speak to whether or not these sleep analysis tools work, but I
absolutely can't in good conscience recommend buying this particular device
(YC or not).

~~~
tdavis
Though biased (I wrote all of WakeMate's web-based software), I think the
product is solid and works as described; Beta users have agreed. Release
estimation and product management in general are clearly a different matter,
but we _have_ sent out multiple emails since April and the blog
(<http://blog.wakemate.com>) is routinely updated.

~~~
brandon
The only thing that has kept me from pulling my pre-order was that I do have
high hopes for the device once I eventually receive one. That's certainly not
a basis upon which to recommend the device, though, and my negative experience
so far has lead me to do the opposite _for now_.

As for the blog, it's great to see that progress is being made, but the
company's communication strategy has been inconsistent at best. I had no idea
that there were public updates outside of the emails I'd received, and I can
confirm that the last communication I personally received was on April 1st.
Even when I initially put $5 down on the device, the only confirmation I got
was from PayPal, not WakeMate.

The fact that the endeavor was a start-up effort is not lost on me, though,
and so I'm trying to be patient. I just hope that there are lessons learned
around customer communication and commitment.

------
waxman
I owned and briefly used a very similar German-made device called the Axbo:
<http://www.axbo.com/axbo/CMS/CMS.aspx?Language=E>

In my experience, it actually didn't work at all.

I suspect one main problem was that you could only set the alarm to wake you
up within a 30-minute window, which meant there was a fairly high probability
that the optimal point in your sleep cycle would occur before or after the
alarm (given that the average sleep cycle is 60-120 minutes).

That said, it's one of those ideas that just sounds so compelling (Circadian
rhythm!?! Sign me up!) It could work, the Axbo execution just didn't cut it
for me.

I actually know the Wakemate guys, and I'm really anxious to try their
product. I hope it works! For their sake, and for all those sleep-deprived
hackers out there like myself!

One question I have for HN, though, is: given their supply chain troubles and
the fact that, for all we know, their product may or may not actually work,
what do you think about pre-selling a brand new product? Is it ethical? Is it
advisable from a long-term strategic perspective (e.g. does it create the
wrong expectations settings for your first users?)

I'd be particularly interested to hear from Wakemate!

~~~
tdavis
_> Is it ethical?_

WakeMate never actually collected any money from the pre-sales, so I don't
think there's anything that could be considered unethical about it. If we had,
that'd probably be a different story.

 _> Is it advisable from a long-term strategic perspective..._

That remains to be seen, but investors wanted to see actual pre-orders; since
the investment was necessary to hire folks like me to finish the product, it
was the only short-term strategy available.

~~~
brandon
To be fair, WakeMate did collect a $5 pre-order deposit from a number of
customers which was later refunded.

I'm sure the money that came in this way was another vehicle towards finding
investment, so I don't begrudge them at all.

~~~
zaatar
Was the refund automatic? I am quite sure I paid the $5 but don't recall
seeing a refund. Maybe I got it but I'd love to know where to look ...

~~~
Frazzydee
From what I've heard: * If you paid by google checkout, you were never
actually charged * If you paid by paypal, you should have been refunded by
August 17th, 2010 (<http://blog.wakemate.com/2010/08/17/timing-update/>)

So if you paid by paypal, just check your transaction history around that date
to ensure you actually got the refund.

------
ithayer
Try an iphone app like "Sleep Cycle". It's worked just as well for me as the
$150 "SleepTracker Pro" I bought a few years ago. Arguably better since the
iphone app provides nice graphs and soothing wakeup music.

Does it work? I do feel like both the app and the watch nudge me awake at the
right time, but you need to be disciplined enough to actually get up and make
use of an unexpected 15-30 minutes in the morning.

~~~
petercooper
I also had some luck with Sleep Cycle (though it wasn't _mindblowing_ ). It
doesn't really measure your sleep cycle, merely your movements, but having an
alarm going off while you're naturally turning over or otherwise not totally
comatose seems to help. As you say, you still need the discipline to actually
get up, but the value is in not missing the alarm due to being in a truly
"deep" sleep.

------
boffobox
I've been using the SleepTracker Pro for about two years now and I love it.
Just last week I started to have some issues with it - when I would press the
light button it would short and everything would be reset. The CEO called me
the next day and said that it didn't matter how old the watch was. Send it in
and we'll get you a new one. Pretty cool. So I would highly recommend them.

The other part to this is that these types of alarms will only "go off" at the
most optimal time. That doesn't necessarily mean that it is any easier to get
out of bed. It took me a few months to get used to this fact. You have to get
a mentality that when the alarm goes off, you get up. For instance, if I went
to bed at 1am, I would set the alarm for 7:15. I would set my "wake window"
for about 1.5 hours beforehand. For the first few months, if my alarm went off
at 5:45, I would wake up, feel great, look at my clock and realize that I
still had over an hour that I could still sleep. So I'd go back to bed and
wake up feeling horrible.

Then, I got some great advice from a friend of mine who said, "Sleep like a
dog." In other words, sleep when you are tired. Play when you are awake. This
broke the mindset I had had since I was a child where I woke up with my alarm
to now, as soon as I start to wake up (whether from my SleepTracker or just
naturally), I think 'Am I rested? Did I sleep well?' If I had, then I don't
even look at the clock, I just get up. Otherwise, I'll stick to my safety
alarm clock that always goes off at 7:15.

------
moogatronic
I've had the Zeo for about 5 days, so I can only provide feedback relative to
that amount of time. It certainly SEEMS accurate with it's recording of my
deep/rem/light sleep cycles. There's no way for me to really know though since
I'm asleep.

I'm a data fiend, so having the data is worth more to me than the smart-wake
feature. I cant speak for the WakeMate, but the Zeo will wake you up to 30
minutes before your target time if it is more optimal than your target time.
I've not experienced any benefit from this so far, but like I said, only 5
days use.

------
wccrawford
I appear to have this software built into my brain. I will quite often wake up
before my alarm, sometimes as much as an hour, but most often as little as 1-5
minutes. And it does tend to run in cycles, with me waking up ~30 minutes for
a few days in a row and then going back to waking just before the alarm.

Only when I'm really tired, or had trouble sleeping, does the alarm wake me
up.

Most of the people I know use their snooze button, though. I've always thought
that a really bad idea, but couldn't really say why since I wake up ready to
go, and not drowsy. (I don't drink caffeine very often, and I've always been a
morning person.) Wouldn't you be defeating this device if you just hit
'snooze' and went back to bed for the remaining time?

------
rsaarelm
I use a lamp with a timer that gets gradually brighter. It turns itself on
some time before I want to wake up. Instead of a single point of waking up,
there's a window of around an hour when the light gets brighter for me to wake
up. One can be rigged up with just a regular lamp and a power outlet timer,
although that doesn't give the gradual brightening part.

Of course it's possible to just sleep through the whole thing if sufficiently
sleep-deprived, so something like the WakeMate could still be better for
waking up less painfully from a shorter than usual night's sleep.

------
iuguy
I use sleep cycle on the iPhone and it works great when I'm away. Having said
that, if you share a bed with a partner, YMMV - I just don't bother using
sleep cycle at home, my wife moves a lot in her sleep.

------
dzlobin
I ordered a Zeo this week, I'll write up a blog post in 2-3 weeks and do a
review if you're interested. I was waiting for wakemate to start shipping but
it has been so long that I figured I'd try Zeo for now.

------
patrickryan
Try Sleep Cycle if you have an iPhone. It's $.99 and works surprisingly well.

~~~
dataguy
I got an Android phone. Anything existing for that?

