
Linux's new CoC is a piece of shit - laresistance
https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/9ghrrj/linuxs_new_coc_is_a_piece_of_shit/
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atoav
I can't see anything wrong with the Code of Conduct. Some people call it
"toxic" and they are afraid of the "SWJs" taking over. This is only a problem
if you try to loose focus on the quality of the work.

Some argue that now that Linus realized how his communication is received
sometimes, he will suddenly not be able anymore to tell people when shitty
code is shitty. There are a billion ways to tell somebody their code is shitty
with out attacking the person themselves, some of which might even make them
realize that you are right. And Linus certainly didn't sound like he doesn't
care about the kernel anymore.

IMO the Code of Conduct has nothing irrational or outrageous in it:

* don't be sexist (you can critique someones code without making it about their gender or gender identity)

* don't be racist (you can critique someones code without making it about their race or origin)

* don't be shitty to people who know less (you can critique someones code without making them about them beeing a noob, and help them getting better)

etc.

I don't see how having more harassment would aid code quality.

~~~
adrianlmm
And if you dare to question that there are more than two genders then good by.

~~~
gyaru
This is a silly statement.

I'd be amazed if you somehow managed to question this and still make it
related to the Linux kernel...

~~~
adrianlmm
This is the problem with this covenant, anything you say personally in your
own social networks will also be taken into account.

~~~
Dain42
That's not true. In fact, it's a specific misrepresentation of the CoC.
Whoever planted that idea, did it in bad faith:

> _This Code of Conduct applies both within project spaces and in public
> spaces when an individual is representing the project or its community.
> Examples of representing a project or community include using an official
> project e-mail address, posting via an official social media account, or
> acting as an appointed representative at an online or offline event._

It's very specific. If you're representing the community, and you say
something bigoted, then, yeah, that might be brought up. But that _should_ be
the case. No project wants its representatives doing stuff that reflects badly
on the project or which creates a bad culture in the project community.

Besides, it's also just not a very good idea to post bigoted things, both in
terms of making a better society and culture, and in terms of just following
the Golden Rule and being nice to other people.

~~~
Pahtogen
Well sure its never a good idea to post bigoted things online but truth is
even if the CoC wasn't meant to socially persecute individuals for what they
do in their private time, it will most likely happen regardless.

This is the way of life for most now. If you say anything remotely offensive
and it ends up online/traceable to you. You will loose your job and most, if
not all other actual job possibilities.

Yes you may argue that one should never do that (and I certainly agree)
however, everyone is human and we all make mistakes. So what happens when we
as a society decide to totally condemn individuals for their mistakes without
allowing them to learn from them in the first place? I would wager, probably
something not so nice.

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lucideer
In the opener the author seems to generally agree that toning down ad hominem
conduct is a good thing:

> _He 's stated that he'd tone down his language (no more calls to
> "retroactively abort" people and such. This is all good, and I support it.
> One of my greatest fears is having my patch/contrition to a FOSS project be
> publicly dissected and ridiculed._

But his bullet point objections either contradict the above (transphobia
should be acceptable), or are basically contentless (objecting to a part of
the CoC that the author says doesn't apply to kernel dev).

Abbreviated summary of the bullet points on why the CoC is bad:

1\. The CoC's author objected to transphobia within the Opal compiler project

2\. The new CoC means Linus will need to tone down his language (which we
seemed to be ok with in the opener).

3\. The new CoC doesn't allow discrimination. Discrimination has never been a
problem in kernel dev (if you really believe that, then the CoC shouldn't
change anything)

4\. The new CoC requires all maintainers to be of the same technical ability?
(not sure where this idea came from, it doesn't require this)

~~~
baud147258
> 1\. The CoC's author objected to transphobia within the Opal compiler
> project

The mentioned transphobia was never in the Opal project, it was a comment made
outside the project, by a member, which would be outside the scope of a such
CoC.

For point 4, I think the problem for the author, was that a maintainer won't
have the possibility to say a patch is bad to avoid discriminating on
'technical ability'

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aritmo
The choice of words in the title is the reason that Linus is taking a short
break.

That post uses "SJW" as a slur for activists.

~~~
aikah
> That post uses "SJW" as a slur for activists.

No, it's fitting, "SJW" are slacktivists, not activists. When James Kyles
throws a tantrum and insults people working for Palantir or Microsoft on
Github issue pages, he might win a few internet points and likes on twitter,
but he is not making a difference in the real world.

~~~
atoav
I still don't see how this links to Linux having a Code of Conduct. If there
is never a problem with sexism/racism/harassment, you can simply ignore this
text. If there is one, there needs to be no discussion about whether it is
accepted or not.

I am against thought police, but Linux is about code. It is not hard to keep
your thoughts about people to yourself and instead try to critique code in a
fair fashion. It doesn't matter if a man, a woman, a dog in a costume or a
billion monkeys on typewriters wrote the code. Bad code is bad, good code is
good.

Anything that stops people from making it about people rather than code is
also good IMO.

~~~
aikah
> Anything that stops people from making it about people rather than code is
> also good IMO.

No, it doesn't, this Drupal story demonstrates that COC are useful to get rid
of people one doesn't like because they somehow "hurt" somebody by doing
something in their private life.

[https://www.inc.com/sonya-mann/drupal-larry-garfield-
gor.htm...](https://www.inc.com/sonya-mann/drupal-larry-garfield-gor.html)

~~~
atoav
The CoC clearly speaks about harassment and not about personal lifestyle
choices. If you keep your private life to yourself you should be fine.

Can a CoC be abused? Sure, if the community culture allows it. Does that
possibility invalidate a CoC alltogether? Probably not.

A CoC will codify allowed behaviour which decreases the freedom for some forms
of expression, most of which were destructive in nature and wasting
everybodies time anyways. So in a certain sense you loose something, but you
will also get something. Very talented persons who are to shy to use their
ellbows all the time might be more willing to contribute etc.

IMO a ok tradeoff

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sunpazed
Totally unrelated, but I couldn’t help notice that the OP shared an
“old.reddit.com” URL. Glad to know it’s not just me that hates the new Reddit
UX.

~~~
yayana
TFA crashed my mobile browser, and you say the new is even worse?

An email to a mailing list would have been more appropriate on a few fronts.
If not for the new CoC, I might express that differently. </sarcasm>

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thinkingemote
I am sure the chip corporations are going to be happier knowing they are going
to get an easier ride to make their changes now.

