
Samsung flew bloggers to Berlin, then threatened to leave them there - rounak
http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/09/02/heres-samsung-flew-bloggers-halfway-around-world-threatened-leave/?utm_campaign=social%20media&awesm=tnw.to_a4CW&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Spreadus
======
eddanger
The only winner out of this is Nokia who paid for the hotels and flights home
of those bloggers. <http://twitter.com/clintonjeff/status/242358009249026049>

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Wow, that is brilliant PR.

~~~
noirman
This is greatness.

------
indrax
This is a human trafficking story.

Clearly this is not remotely as horrific as the usual connotations, but the
structure of bait-and-switch coercion is very similar.

------
KaoruAoiShiho
I don't get this story. They were asked to wear a samsung t-shirt. That's not
how shills typically work, isn't it typically, pretend you're independent,
give good review, rather than, pretend you're part of our PR team?

Why would it benefit Samsung to have random Indians bloggers demoing devices
in Berlin?

Something about this story doesn't make any sense.

~~~
Negitivefrags
I'm almost certain this must have been a communication issue within Samsung.
Someone got it in their head that this group was hired to promote their
product and told subordinates to deal with the group.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

~~~
jakobe
There's no way that threatening someone to leave them stranded in a foreign
country is the result of "miscommunication". This behaviour on Samsung's part
is simply despicable.

Even if the bloggers _had_ agreed to work for Samsung, and then changed their
mind, holding return tickets ransom would not have been an acceptable course
of action.

There is no way that this is explained by stupidity, this is malice in its
purest form.

~~~
aptwebapps
Mmmm, how about stupidity followed by malice? Pure malice doesn't make sense.
What's so valuable about using foreign bloggers to stand around with phones
instead locals?

I'd say Negitivefrags's guess is good. Something like that might have
happened, and then when the bloggers didn't co-operate with the misinformed
boss, the nasty stuff started.

------
truxs
This ain't new for Samsung, they did the same during the olympics.

Officially they were invited to live the games from the inside but in the end
they worked as Samsung publicist for free.

[http://int13.net/france/blog/i-won-a-contest-to-go-to-the-
lo...](http://int13.net/france/blog/i-won-a-contest-to-go-to-the-london-
olympic-games/)

~~~
yesbabyyes
The author wrote it in English, too: [http://int13.net/france/blog/i-won-a-
contest-to-go-to-the-lo...](http://int13.net/france/blog/i-won-a-contest-to-
go-to-the-london-olympic-games/)

~~~
rm999
Interesting, from the comments:

> As a Cheil member, I want to express my deeply sorry to make you feel that
> way. We’ll try to do our best not to make any inconvenience around this
> matter. And I promise that your comments will be reflected to upgrade and
> elaborate our Moilers program. I hope you to keep in touch with us and show
> your opinion at any time. Whatever it is, it will be welcomed

From Wikipedia:

>Cheil Worldwide Inc., is a global marketing and communications company
headquartered in Seoul, South Korea.[1] It is South Korea's largest
advertising agency and was ranked 16th in the world by Advertising Age in
2006... Internationally, Cheil has carried out communications campaigns for
Samsung Electronics, including the “Imagine” branding campaign spanning 80
countries. It also provides marketing support for Samsung’s role as a
Worldwide Olympic Partner

Overaggressive third party marketing company? I wonder how Samsung will
respond to this article and other feedback.

~~~
tripzilch
Funny how their name is even a homonym for "shill" :-)

------
philhippus
Pretty sure that had they gone to the German authorities and explained how
Samsung "trafficked" them into the country with an expectation of being
provided a ticket home, Samsung Berlin would get a call from German
immigration - and promptly pay for the tickets.

~~~
NameNickHN
You have a lot of faith in the German authorities. The Indian embassy and the
Indian consulate would be probably of more help.

~~~
TillE
The German authorities generally don't take kindly to companies trying to
skirt around labor and immigration laws.

No guarantee that they would deal with the issue promptly, of course, but some
kind of threat or formal inquiry to whoever was in charge at Samsung probably
would have made them back down.

------
Roritharr
I'm part of the Samsung Mobilers program which is very similar to what they
did.

I've never experienced as much pressure as described here, but i guess the
Indian Samsung subsidiary is managed by different minded people.

It was clearly just a communication problem. Samsung expects you to do things
at these events and you get your trip and stay for free in return, sometimes a
little cash on top.

Noone wants to use the word work, for all the red tape this would create...

~~~
r00fus
> Samsung expects you to do things at these events and you get your trip and
> stay for free in return, sometimes a little cash on top. Noone wants to use
> the word work, for all the red tape this would create...

Legal? - possibly. Ethical? - not to me. How is this _not_ evasion of labor
laws? That this is par-for-the-course is pretty dismaying.

~~~
Roritharr
It's not as bad as it sounds. It's targeted toward students that are tech-
savvy. You get a free trip to an international destination that you otherwise
most likely wouldn't have a chance to travel to with people that share your
passion.

It can be a lot of fun if you know what you're signing up for.

~~~
hatcravat
If it's anything like this woman's experience
([http://int13.net/france/blog/i-won-a-contest-to-go-to-the-
lo...](http://int13.net/france/blog/i-won-a-contest-to-go-to-the-london-
olympic-games/)), I don't think they would have had much fun. _Especially_ if
they knew what they were signing up for.

~~~
Roritharr
I know her and have talked over FB to her personally. Her experience was
terrible and can only be attributed to the pressure Samsung was putting on
their PR people. Being one of the main sponsors of the olympics is expensive,
so they were most likely throwing a lot of pressure around and people weren't
able to think things through... too bad.

------
spartango
From the start, the offers that Samsung made seemed ethically questionable.
Yes, they may be common, especially where review device access is limited, but
they seem very much like bribes.

I like The Verge's ethics statement, which they post publicly, for this
reason.

<http://www.theverge.com/ethics-statement>

"We do not allow trips or any portions of trips (including but not limited to
airfare, hotel, or car rentals) to be paid for by third parties (these are
known in the industry as 'junkets')."

They make expectations for readers _and_ device-makers crystal clear.

~~~
mpclark
That's a nice sentiment if you're making serious money or are otherwise well
funded. Maybe their writers ought to take a vow of celibacy too, just in case.

~~~
pessimizer
Or if you think it might be wrong to lie to strangers for money.

~~~
mpclark
Is that reductio ad absurdum in action?

~~~
chris_wot
If it is, then it's a major fail because all it would take would be for the
bloggers to state that Samsung paid for their travel and accomodation when
they went to the event, but they are independent reviews. That should be
sufficient for people to make up their mind.

~~~
pessimizer
>Samsung paid for their travel and accomodation when they went to the event,
but they are independent reviews

Only if the word "independent" has decided to become a synonym for 'sassy' and
leave behind the boring 'disentangled.'

------
Indyan
Another Indian blogger - Amit Bhawani, who was also there at the event has a
different version of the story. <http://www.amitbhawani.com/blog/samsung-
mobilers-ifa-2012/> According to him, Samsung had always billed CJ as a
promoter and not as a reporter. This seems to be a case of miscommunication.
However, even in that situation, what Samsung did was extremely immoral. If
they believed CJ was not playing his part they should have flown him back to
India, had a discussion, and ejected him from the program. Not leave him
stranded in a foreign country.

~~~
tripzilch
Exactly. The miscommunication is not the issue here. It's obvious that there
was one. The scandal is how Samsung handled it.

------
briandear
This is typical of Korean companies. I worked in Korea for years and some of
my naïve colleagues would even have their passports held hostage for the
duration of the employment contract. This was in the education industry, but
these kinds of extortions are pretty standard in Korea.

I love Korea, but I avoid doing business in Korea because of this type of
tomfoolery.

~~~
miahi
I keep hearing about this "passport kept hostage" problem. What keeps you from
going to your embassy and reporting the passport missing or stolen? As the
passport is not your property but is actually the property of the issuing
country, a company or even another country's government cannot hold the
passport without causing trouble.

That hostage-passport can only hold if there is something else going on, like
working without a permit (when the workers know their status and fear the
punishment if they go to the embassy).

~~~
briandear
You can't get punished by your embassy for working in another country
illegally. As far as getting a replacement passport, that's no problem. The
passport hostage taking will prevent you from staying in the country or being
able to get another job in the country because while you can get a new
passport, you can't easily get a new visa. It's actually against Korean labor
law to withhold a passport however a foreigner has little chance of winning
that fight because they delay the process effectively leaving you without a
job and the ability to get a new work visa from another employer while the
process drags along.

In the old days (a few years ago,) you couldn't even leave the country unless
your employer released you from your visa. Trying to exit without a visa can
get you detained an heavily fined. So keeping your passport has the practical
effect of keeping you stranded because you can't get a replacement visa for
the new passport without the employer's permission. Korean immigration is a
mess.

~~~
kenster07
You haven't explained why someone in this bizarre scenario where they have
given their passport to their employer can't simply go to their embassy and
have the matter straightened out in a day.

~~~
hatcravat
You obviously haven't traveled internationally very much or you are being
deliberately obtuse (or both).

I'll explain anyway: Many countries have some sort of passport control both
when you enter and when you leave the country. The reasons for this are
varied, but a common one is to make sure you didn't overstay your visa. As a
result, you need to have a valid visa attached to your passport to pass
through passportcontrol to exit the country. It is almost never sufficient to
have been issued a visa to pass through passport control. You almost always
need the one physical piece of paper that is the physical manifestation of the
visa.

If your employer has your passport, they also have the visa which was stapled
to it. Your embassy can easily get you a replacement passport, but a
replacement visa is up to the host country.

Your two options to leave are: 1) Ask your former employer for your passport
and visa. 2) Go through some (or a lot, to judge from the other comments)
bureaucracy to get a new visa.

~~~
dedward
While this is all true - stolen passports are a very real problem, and when I
had mine stolen, and got a replacement, it clearly said on one of the first
pages "This passport replaces passport #XXXXXXX reported stolen on DATE".

Yes, I lost all my visa/entry stamps.... and yes, that can be a problem - but
the fact is, a nation is unlikely to hold you hostage and create a diplomatic
incident because your passport has been stolen.

------
grannyg00se
How could this scenario have gone well for Samsung? Did they think the
bloggers would suddenly change their moral stance and do a complete 180 on
what they had been insisting for weeks?

It seems it would be much easier to find people who are willing to be brand
ambassadors and be up front about it if that's what you are looking for.

~~~
codeka
This story seems very strange to me. As you say, why would Samsung do this? In
what universe do the events described in the article sound like the actions of
a rational company?

The whole story is entirely one-sided and to be honest if it sounds too crazy
to be true, I suspect it probably is too crazy to be true.

~~~
duncan_bayne
> In what universe do the events described in the article sound like the
> actions of a rational company?

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Kies>

Having been forced to use this monstrosity to get files onto a Galaxy Tab, I
don't see _where_ you get the idea that you're talking about a rational
company.

~~~
brokenparser
You don't need Kies to transfer files to your tab, in fact you don't need Kies
at all since they "leaked" ODIN (which has been independently re-implemented
as "Heimdall", not to be confused with Heimdal).

------
Empro
Wow. Samsung really needs to clean up its act.

~~~
denzil_correa
To be fair to Samsung, I do not think this is a Samsung specific issue. It
raises larger concerns about well known companies also like TNW, TheVerge,
Engagdget etc. FWIW these websites directly affect consumer choices.

~~~
potatolicious
Wait a sec, a blogger goes to great pains to state that he won't shill for a
company that's paying for his trip to a trade show. He verifies that this is
okay with the company several times, and states categorically that he will
cover other products and be impartial about Samsung's, repeatedly.

How does this "raise larger concerns" about these blogs? It seems like the
blogger here has gone out of his way to ensure that his impartiality isn't
challenged.

This sort of behavior - from Samsung or otherwise - is despicable. They need
to be held to full account for this sort of fraud.

~~~
denzil_correa
A lot of people have grossly misunderstood my statement. Please take a moment
to think that in this specific instance the blogger refused to dance to
Samsung's tunes and hence, got reported. If the blogger would have sgreed all
this may have been swept under the carpet. Therefore, it raises "larger
concerns" about bloggers who give product reviews.

I am in no sane mind defending Samsung or any of it's actions. I just want to
take this incident to pause & introspect over the ongoings in the technology
review industry.

------
azakai
"Use your left/right keys to browse stories" - seriously? A single click of
the left or right arrow moves to a completely different page?

~~~
akldfgj
It's the next innovation after Blogger's "touch your phone's screen to
randomly flip to the next or previous story."

~~~
DeepDuh
Blogsite owners probably think "well, if it works for pornsites and pirate
movie streamers..."

Of course, I only know the behavior of aforementioned services from my
'friends'.

------
fruchtose
This is the ugly side of "new media"--the big companies are able to push
around the little people who lack the support of their own big companies.

------
xmen
Samsung statement -

Samsung Mob!lers is a voluntary community of active Samsung mobile device
users, who are offered the opportunity to participate in our marketing events
across the world. At these events, all activities they undertake are on a
voluntary basis. No activities are forced upon them.

We regret there was a misunderstanding between the Samsung Mob!lers
coordinators and the relevant blogger, as we understand he was not
sufficiently briefed on the nature of Samsung Mob!lers’ activities at IFA
2012. We have been attempting to get in touch with him.

We respect the independence of bloggers to publish their own stories.

via - [http://asia.cnet.com/should-samsung-have-stranded-a-
blogger-...](http://asia.cnet.com/should-samsung-have-stranded-a-blogger-at-
ifa-update-62218570.htm)

~~~
tripzilch
Huh? If you threaten to strand them in a foreign country, how is that _not_
forcing them to undertake these activities?

That's not a "misunderstanding between the coordinator and the blogger", that
is your coordinator fucking up.

I can't believe that a company still thinks that "we regret there was a
misunderstanding" is any sort of apology when you should have said "we regret
we made this mistake and apologize", trying to pin it on the blogger, damn...

~~~
Udo
Don't feed the underpaid troll.

~~~
tripzilch
Actually not sure if that was a troll? They were just quoting Samsung's
statement (which is relevant info ITT), I'm not sure if they agreed with it or
considered it a sufficient apology.

(actually, given that it's three days without a reply, that pretty much rules
out "troll", by the definition that I've come to know and love)

~~~
Udo
In retrospect I think you could be right on both counts. First, I should have
called the guy an astroturfer instead of a troll to use more correct
terminology. Second, yes, the guy _may_ not be a Samsung forum shill after
all, but I'm basing this possibility solely on the fact that he took the time
to add some profile information about [himself | some real person]. The reason
why I didn't believe this account is real still exists though: it was created
and used solely for the purpose of commenting on the Samsung thread.

While this may or may not be a coincidence, my reaction is so negative by
default because recently there have been a lot of single-purpose accounts that
seem to exist only for one thread before they're being abandoned. They are
usually employed to troll, to attack someone personally, to post or promote
blog spam, or to shill for something. In fact, it has gotten so bad I can
usually tell by the post's content and style whether this person is engaging
in a quick hit-and-run or if they intent to stay around. I believe we're still
putting too much weight on "green" accounts. Maybe their posts should be gray
by default.

I might have come up with a false positive in this case, but there is no
evidence to support that yet.

------
boundlessdreamz
Samsung India seems to be full of morons. First they deny payment to ppk
[http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2012/03/never_ever_d...](http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2012/03/never_ever_do_b.html)
Now they are threatening bloggers.

------
denzil_correa
Raises quite a few issues about conflict of interests. Should there be a rule
for such declarations by writers who are paid to promote brands ?

~~~
bradmccarty
The FTC does have governance over endorsements and testimonials. Not sure that
it applies completely here. The trouble comes when you start talking about
people and companies outside of the US. International law for bloggers or
journalists seems like a difficult situation to say the least.

<http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2009/10/endortest.shtm>

------
xmen
Now check this - Samsung Mobilers IFA 2012 – Agenda & Facts / Emails Sent to
Bloggers - <http://www.amitbhawani.com/blog/samsung-mobilers-ifa-2012/>

~~~
dagw
It sounds like the blogger is question had balked those requirements, asked
for an exemption and (thought that they'd) gotten one.

------
Indyan
It may come as a surprise, but based on the various anecdotes "Nokia India" is
actually among the few that gets how to handle the new media.

------
saib16
Samsung will travel in Nokia way in India.

------
sbierwagen
The extended quotes, and TNW's reputation, makes me think that this may be
blogspam, but I can't find an original post.

------
revelation
Being stranded in Berlin is certainly not the worst that could happen to you.

That said, this is exactly what happens when, as a journalist, you start to
blur the lines. As a reader it's hard to feel any sympathy when reading
paragraphs that try just a bit too hard to rationalize the behavior:

 _Again, a reminder – Behavior such as Samsung’s is not uncommon in the world
of tech coverage. It’s perhaps considered more normal in some parts of the
world_

~~~
drx
Yes, blame the victim.

Not to mention your remark about being stranded in Berlin not being so bad.

~~~
revelation
I believe in incentives. In this case, more potential free all expenses
covered trips are stacked against "I'm a professional, theres a way for me to
do this and stay neutral".

I don't think that ever really worked out.

~~~
dschobel
I have to agree with you. While it is possible to accept gift airfare and
hotel worth thousands of dollars and remain neutral, it certainly looks dodgy.
Especially if you're a broke blogger.

If the allegations are true, Samsung acted reprehensibly but these guys were
naive.

~~~
theorique
There's a very big difference between:

on the one hand, being subtly 'encouraged' to write favorable blog posts or
reviews via enjoyable junkets, and

on the other hand, being expected to act as a real part of the PR team, wear
company-branded clothing, and film promotional videos.

One is normal practice in tech journalism. The other is something quite
different, and more aggressive. It seems like the bloggers expected the former
- not especially naively - and got the latter via pressure and bait-and-
switch.

~~~
akldfgj
Well, the latter is far more honest.

~~~
chris_wot
How, exactly, is it more honest?

~~~
pessimizer
Because it makes it obvious that you're being paid to claim to like things,
likely in proportion to how convincing you are.

