
Emirates Has Invested $500M to Build a 'Fort Knox' of Wine - JumpCrisscross
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-05/how-emirates-airline-serves-the-best-wine-list-in-the-sky
======
JumpCrisscross
> _Most airlines employ a wine consultant who will use a number calculated by
> the finance team to put together a list of 20 wines that are available both
> in the market and in the volume required. Tim Clark, the president of
> Emirates, wanted its wine list to be a differentiator. So the airline made
> the decision to partner with MMI and buy as directly as possible from
> merchants and vineyards and in smaller quantities, if
> necessary—10,000-bottle parcels instead of the typical 24,000 or 48,000._

Reminds me of Delta Air Lines' 2012 purchase of an East Coast oil refinery
[1], a more refined :) take on Southwest's profitable fuel-price hedge last
decade [2]. Both Emirates' and Delta's plays echo a comment I read yesterday
about "identifying supply-chain components that can be [more] economically
produced in-house" [3].

[1] [http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/01/business/delta-air-
lines-t...](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/01/business/delta-air-lines-to-buy-
refinery.html)

[2]
[http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/industries/travel/2008-...](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/industries/travel/2008-07-23-southwest-
jet-fuel_N.htm)

[3]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13323081](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13323081)

~~~
johnm1019
I always found the Delta arrangement very interesting. The refinery took a $10
million loss which saved DL $100 million. [1] But it also saved rivals money.
When they make cheaper jet fuel it doesn't just go to Delta. They have to sell
the fuel into the Jet-A for the region. That means they subsidize all the
other airlines too.

So DL says, if we give each airline $90 million (# made up), our use and
deployment of capital will be (is?) more efficient and therefore it's a net
win for us.

Or possibly in another thought-experiment, it's better that each airline has
the money to invest in their businesses and products, such that the entire
Aviation industry benefits, rather than giving that profit to an O&G company.

[1] [http://finance.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-deltas-refinery-
sacr...](http://finance.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-deltas-refinery-sacrifices-
profits-050817308.html)

------
ridgeguy
From the Bloomberg article: "And if you're really lucky, you might be able to
order a 2005 Sauterne from Château d'Yquem, the superior first-growth winery
that was a favorite of Thomas Jefferson and is now owned by LVMH."

My God. Drinking a 2005 d'Yquem is infanticide. Those wines are meant to
mature for decades.

When you talk about the "best vintage" of d'Yquem that's still drinkable, you
have to specify which _century_!

For example, 1811: [http://sip-bali.com/yquem-1811/](http://sip-
bali.com/yquem-1811/)

~~~
emdowling
Call it what you want, but yesterday at 38,000 feet it was absolutely
delightful.

~~~
kurthr
I hear it's great over the Indian Ocean with Rogue:One on the small screen
using complimentary headphones.

------
Apocryphon
A company based in a Muslim country and owned and managed by Muslims investing
in a secure complex to store alcohol is like a government of a fiat currency-
using country investing in a secure complex to store gold bullion, I suppose.

~~~
willstrafach
that seems like a strange analogy. they serve many markets (India is a major
one for example). there is nothing which forbids them from serving alcohol to
non-Muslim travelers.

~~~
Apocryphon
I actually didn't know that. I had assumed that alcohol was haram and thus
considered unclean, or at least that it would be sinful to participate in the
production or distribution of it, even to nonbelievers.

~~~
gkya
Well Islam is not only what extremists make us think of it. When it comes to
actual muslims, there's a gradient from totally-by-the-book to muslim-merely-
in-the-name. Many muslims consume alcoholic drinks.

~~~
aedron
True, though even "totally-by-the-book", Islam allows the consumption of
alcohol for non-Muslims. This is why alcohol is usually available at hotels,
even in Saudi Arabia.

~~~
chimeracoder
> True, though even "totally-by-the-book", Islam allows the consumption of
> alcohol for non-Muslims

And, depending on who you ask, for Muslims too. The prohibition is against
rice wine, which most Muslims generalize to include all alcohol, but some
interpret that to mean only rice wine, or only wine.

~~~
gkya
Well, when you say by-the-book, at the end of the day, it's possible to make
the book say anything. For example wrt homosexuality, it's possible to
generate valid arguments pro and contro based on each of three major
abrahamitic canons. My father occasionally went to friday midday prayers, and
fasted every ramadan. But then again, he drunk unfathomable amounts of vodka
and beer and he smoked. So for some he was a sinner destined to go to hell,
but for others he was a zealot. I guess that's why religious canons are fun
reads but not the books to build an outlook and a philosophy upon.

------
jahaja
I'm admittedly not a wine person but I really wonder how many people can
actually recognise a $10 bottle of wine from a $30 bottle of wine - or
similar.

~~~
blang
I'm sure some people can tell, but I highly recommend watching sour grapes,
there really are some emperor's new clothes moments.

[http://www.sourgrapesfilm.com/about/](http://www.sourgrapesfilm.com/about/)

~~~
prawn
Alternatively, Somm is about students trying to pass the brutally difficult
Master Sommelier exam. Worth a look IMO:
[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2204371/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2204371/)

I gradually went from "This main guy is a tool" to "Holy crap, he studies
incredibly hard. I hope he succeeds."

------
owenversteeg
Emirates may have the best wine selection for those who want to spend
thousands getting from A to B, but I find the longer Ukraine International
Airlines flights have the best drinks for the average person. I've taken
several in the past few months, and the flights are not only inexpensive but
the drinks on board are very cheap or free. Of course, some of this is owing
to the depressed hryvnia.

For those that wish to spend a little more, but not anywhere near Emirates
levels (and for those who are scared by flying over Iraq, which was definitely
an experience) KLM often has inexpensive flights with fantastic service, even
in economy. Not as good as Emirates of course, but still somewhat inexpensive.

~~~
kylehotchkiss
My understanding is that they currently deliberately avoid Iraq (my dc-dubai
flight in sept did), in favor of flying over Iran for many western flights.
Airlines do this often (look up tel aviv to mumbai on flightaware for a fun
flight path... or any flights from azeribaijan enclave to capital, or dubai-
yerevan, these routes are loaded with geopolitics)

~~~
owenversteeg
Yep - even Eastern carriers are doing that now. My comment downthread has more
on my personal experience [0].

El Al 73, 50% longer than it "should" be because of a detour around Saudi
Arabia:
[https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ELY73/history/20161230/0...](https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ELY73/history/20161230/0315Z/LLBG/VABB)

Azerbaijan Airlines J2261 doesn't seem to be that much longer, even though it
has to avoid the Karabakh region. (At first I thought you were referencing the
Ստեփանակերտի Օդանավակայան/Stepanakert Airport, which interestingly has no IATA
code.)

Dubai to Yerevan doesn't seem that geopolitically complicated though - seems
to fly just over Iran mostly. I guess the end of the flight could get tricky
though, with Armenia saying that Azerbaijan would shoot down Armenian planes
that go over Azerbaijan. The flight I found is FDB715,
[https://flightaware.com/live/flight/FDB715/history/20170103/...](https://flightaware.com/live/flight/FDB715/history/20170103/0755Z/OMDB/UDYZ)

[0]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13331458](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13331458)

~~~
kylehotchkiss
I'm surprised you can fly into Stepanakert! If I had to go there, I'd take a
car

Thanks for the data here, these are really interesting concepts because of how
abstracted they are. I would think many passengers don't realize these types
of choices are made by airlines on a daily basis.

~~~
owenversteeg
Hah, you actually can't. The airport is closed, since the chance of any flight
there being shot down is very high (although the director of the airport said
there would be flights in a matter of months... in 2011)

And you're very welcome! I love looking at these maps. I fly a bunch and it's
only in the past three months or so that I've really been considering the
strange routes that people fly.

------
CodeSheikh
And yet they are cutting back costs on services and have hired cheap third
party concierge service providers who are not as good as Emirates original
staff used to be and are very discriminatory with passengers coming from
certain regions. My uncle was denied a wheel chair when his flight landed in
Dubai because apparently 78 years old forgot to register "special request"
online at the time of check-in. Their reason, Dubai International Airport, a
world class facility, ran out of wheel chairs! I have heard/read similar
stories about how Emirates is loosing its grip when it comes to services
(especially inside the economy class)

Why I posted this rant here? Because I don't agree it is justifiable enough
for a business to hide its short-comings behind an expensive PR campaign.

~~~
ryanlol
Can't speak for economy, but IME Emirates still tends to be the best choice by
far for any super long-haul flights.

The wheel chair thing isn't a huge shock though, DXB staff only seems to be on
point on the upper floors.

~~~
acchow
I can't speak about business or first, but in coach class this has been my
experience as well. Emirates is on a different level from Cathay, Turkish,
Singapore, etc.

~~~
dmode
I have never traveled coach in Emirates but have Singapore, ANA, Asiana
multiple times. Are you saying Emirates coach class is significantly better
than these leading airlines ? Have to try it then

------
thesehands
Interesting that they'd tie so much cash up in the stock and storage. I expect
chateaus were falling over themselves to offer wines to a buyer like this.
Immediate cash and a natural scarcity created to the rest of the market.

------
6stringmerc
Kind of hoped there'd be some kind of discussion regarding what consuming at
altitude does to the flavor profiles of wine, if anything. If anybody has
experience that they could share I'd take a look for sure.

~~~
pboutros
In my experience (flying long-haul, economy flights), it makes cheap reds
taste far more potable. Wines I'd never choose on the ground are greedily
poured down my gullet in the air.

------
synaesthesisx
What's interesting is senses are generally diminished in altitude (the dry
cabin air doesn't help either). Apparently some wines (especially ones that
are more acidic) are especially prone to having flavors muted. If you're going
to enjoy premium wine a flight might not be the most ideal environment to do
it in...

Relevant: [http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150112-why-in-flight-
food-...](http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150112-why-in-flight-food-tastes-
weird)

------
kyleblarson
As long as I am in a lie flat bed with turn down service on a longhaul intl
flight I don't care if the bubbly I'm drinking costs 40 bucks a bottle or 400.

------
not_that_noob
TL;DR: If you take the price information out, the wine doesn't taste so
special

[http://www.wine-economics.org/aawe/wp-
content/uploads/2012/1...](http://www.wine-economics.org/aawe/wp-
content/uploads/2012/10/Vol.3-No.1-2008-Evidence-from-a-Large-Sample-of-Blind-
Tastings.pdf)

~~~
sschueller
There is a great documentary on Netflix called sour grapes. It is about wine
fraud and how in the end most can't tell if the wine is real or not.

------
adamqureshi
Cost does not = value. Value is created in the mind through branding. Products
are made in the factory. Brands are created in the mind. Marketing is
psychology. Been this way for years. What about all the knock off wine out
there, how "does" one authenticate a wine bottle or the content of a wine
bottle. Why would someone pay $2k-$150K for a bottle of wine without being
brainwashed through marketing psychology AND "believe" it is worth the price.
First world problems. Last time i checked Emirates is a muslim country and in
islam alcohol is forbidden. (haram) Good Lucky! they just make shit up as they
go.

------
purpleidea
Doesn't the in-flight turbulence of the aircraft shake the wines? I was always
told never to shake a bottle of wine. Doesn't this defeat the whole point?

------
abricot
Is $500M enough to build anything that can be called the 'Fort Knox' of
anything?

------
dirkg
The best wine experts and master somm's can't tell the difference between
cheap and expensive wine, red and white etc.

Wine is almost completely marketing and psychology.

~~~
partycoder
Wine snobs are experts at feeling superior just for being good at faking their
reactions to fermented grape juice.

Most snobs here couldn't pass a blind test.

