
Soylent Campaign - nkh
https://campaign.soylent.me/soylent-free-your-body
======
iandanforth
I really enjoy this campaign because it gave me an excuse to compare it with
snake oil labels.
([https://www.google.com/search?q=snake+oil+label&tbm=isch...](https://www.google.com/search?q=snake+oil+label&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=6MibUZmmBam9ygHBn4HoAQ&ved=0CC4QsAQ&biw=1440&bih=726))

The characteristic of this kind of marketing that I enjoy the most is the
presence of what I call 'linguistic asymptotes.'

These are words that imply a product has unparalleled or infinite properties.

On the soylent page we have "ubiquitous", "perfectly", "optimized",
"automatically", and "optimal" all in the first paragraph.

On a sample of snake oil labels we have 'instantaneously', 'cures _all_ aches
and pains', 'always', 'strongest', and 'immediate.'

It's very difficult for a claim that contains a linguistic asymptote to be
true, but it's cognitively very easy to understand and process. You don't have
to consider your personal medical history, or cost, or anything else really,
because the product is 'always' right for you!

Fun stuff.

~~~
vecinu
That's a very good point and very observant.

I too am highly skeptical of ALL of these claims.

My main gripe with Soylent (ever since I first saw it here on HN a month ago)
is that they are making cooking seem like a horrible chore that nobody wants
to do.

Shopping is convenient because I go whenever I have time and only buy exactly
what I need. At the same time, I also ensure I only buy the best ingredients I
can at the moment (Assuming labeling is correct).

A lot of people I know and myself included, LOVE to cook. I love cutting a
bell pepper and catching a whiff of its fresh smell in my nostrils. I love
sometimes adding different sauces, spices or ingredients in my meals to give
them a distinct and unique taste.

And cleaning up is also fun because I recognize I am a responsible adult, able
to revert something back to the state I received it in. Just like my bed, or a
rental car or my home.

~~~
SoftwareMaven
My concern is that they are billing this as healthy with zero evidence that it
actually is. The last few years of nutrition research has begun to show us
that we know nothing about it. Pretending you can come up with an optimal
solution when _nobbody_ knows what healthy is, is just that, pretending.

I fear for the people who see this as a great "life hack" who wind up doing
long-lasting damage to themselves. There are cases of people having liver
failure when they go on a long-term liquid diet. I have no idea if that
applies, because we don't really know why that happens.

I appreciate the hacker instinct, but, in this case, I fear it is a dangerous
one.

~~~
nitrogen
How can eating Soylent do more long-lasting damage to oneself than eating any
other food?

~~~
kamakazizuru
just off the top of my head - if the nutrient powders in there are
contaminated (which isnt impossible - a lot of the things he has in there
arent your typical over the counter Centrum - but rather rare metals / their
compounds - manufactured in some factory somewhere)

~~~
papsosouid
He specifically said compared to eating any other food. Every food can be
contaminated. In order to sell this, he has to meet the same requirements
every other food producer does.

------
blhack
Wow there is a lot of hate in this thread...

A lot of the arguments here seem to boil down to "Much smarter people are
working on this and _they_ haven't solved it, who the hell does this KID think
he is?!?"

That's pretty depressing for a website that, at least originally, was to help
startups talk to one another. Shame on you, hacker news. You're smarter than
this. By this logic, never ever trust your data to anybody other than IBM
because those dumb hacker kids don't know what they're doing!

Second: "He's violating ALL KINDS of FDA regulations! [none of which I can
name]"

Oh is he? Because if you actually look at what he's doing, it appears that he
is taking things are _already_ approved from human consumption, and mixing
them together. This would be akin to a baker taking eggs and flour and mixing
them.

What he's selling (although selling is a bit of an incorrect word here) is
effectively a big power bar, except his comes in powerdered form. There are
some hippies that sell power bars at my local coffee shop. They are
_terrible_. What sort of advanced degrees do you suppose the hippies have?
None? Possibly some experience in "baking"?

Finally: this is being presented within the context of "an experiment". If you
start eating soylent, and you get sick, STOP EATING IT!

I'd imagine that I might have similar results if I ate nothing but the hippie
vegan power bars at the coffee shop.

Personally, I'll be in for whatever the $65 level is.

1) Because I think this is neat

2) I want to encourage people to experiment with the world around them.

3) I'm not an idiot, and if I start feeling sick as a result of not eating any
"real" food, I'll stop eating soylent.

Geesh.

~~~
cscurmudgeon
Except that those hippies don't raise $100k+ on the web.

"Soylent is perfectly balanced and optimized for your body and lifestyle,
meaning it automatically puts you at an optimal weight, makes you feel full,
and improves your focus and cognition"

The techniques and the wording seem snake oilish.

Also, if anything those dumb hacker kids build breaks (email, web app, game)
etc, they won't hurt you physically.

The body is a weird mechanism: it can put up with lots of abuse and
experimentation. It is also fragile at the same time.

Also, where are the ingredients listed? The FAQ is hilarious. I can't believe
that people are so gullible. There are mountains of research on nutrition in
modern science and thousands of years of accumulated evidence from traditional
practices (Indian, Chinese) etc.

"But, hey, there is this magic potion which I can buy. Don't care about the
ingredients. Can't be bothered to read up on the manuals for the greatest
mechanism I will ever own. "

Whatever happened to extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence? In
this case, there is a huge chance that a bunch of guys will get rich and some
person will get hurt badly.

~~~
jcampbell1
While this product clearly doesn't meet the risk-reward profile for you (or
me), do you not enjoy the idea that a few thousand people are about start an
interesting experiment?

One though I had was, if Ben and Jerry are adored for making a product that is
delightful but contributes to the obesity epidemic, why can we not also praise
people trying to do the opposite?

~~~
DanBC
I like the idea that people can use the Internet to noodle about with weird
ideas. That's great.

What's not great is moving from "This is me, noodling about with my own
personal weird idea, and here's the information so you can join in" to "Hey!
I'm going to solve world hunger, and obesity, and you can live off this with
no problems no matter who you are!!! (only $200 per month)"

Rest assured, if Ben and Jerry had a crowdfunding website and claimed their
food was balanced for optimal nutrition I'd be very critical of them too.

------
pron
Guys, please don't do this. We've met at YC, and I think you are great guys,
but some things in the video are false.

Soylent is definitely not "perfectly tailored to your body" and it probably
isn't "everything the body needs", for the simple reason that _nobody_ has any
idea what the body needs, let alone how to tailor a perfect diet. Nutrition
research is extremely complex and fraught with false findings. When John
Ioannidis said that most medical research findings are false he singled out
nutrition and genetics as the most problematic fields.

False advertising this particular product can be dangerous because a lot of
people get obsessed about diet and health, and tend to cling to whatever
subset of findings they happen to have heard, and then treat the whole thing
religiously.

Some nutritional deficiencies become apparent only after _years_ and then
possibly only in people with a certain genetic makeup.

You are targeting a population that adopts health fads like they were the ten
commandments, and are trying to sell a product that has properties _you can't
possibly know_. Please stop because you may inadvertently hurt people.

~~~
wldlyinaccurate
I'll admit that I'm _very_ interested in Soylent, and I'd like to try it
myself. But I completely agree with you on this.

Soylent is the sort of thing that could seriously damage your health. I know
that several people have trialled it over the course of a few months, but
nutritional deficiencies can take much longer to develop. For example I don't
recall ever reading that oral health was being monitored during the trials -
when you're not chewing anything, _your teeth will fall out_.

I'm sorry but I truly do believe that selling Soylent would be dangerous and
irresponsible. Please, don't sell Soylent to anybody until you've done some
proper clinical trials.

------
chasing
"Soylent is perfectly balanced and optimized for your body and lifestyle,
meaning it automatically puts you at an optimal weight, makes you feel full,
and improves your focus and cognition."

Bull-fucking-shit.

This is a product made by four twenty-somethings, none of whom appears to have
a background in nutrition or any kind of health studies. To trust your health
to these people would be fucking stupid. Jesus.

Also: They've got to be violating some kind of FDA rules. So that'll be fun.
When they get sued. Or accidentally harm someone.

Please. Do not back these people.

\-----

Edit: What FDA rule do I think they're violating? I don't know, exactly. But I
doubt you can say things like "it automatically puts you at an optimal weight,
makes you feel full, and improves your focus and cognition" without having
some actual data backing you up.

~~~
Afforess
Wow, it's like the "Hacker News Is Depressing" Article didn't happen. I trust
the Soylent folks more than I trust myself purchasing frozen meals in a
grocery store. It's hard to be worse than that benchmark.

~~~
w1ntermute
> trust the Soylent folks more than I trust myself purchasing frozen meals in
> a grocery store.

That's a strawman. You're ignoring the fact that those frozen meals are made
by companies who have more experience in the food industry than these 4 clowns
combined a million times over. I am MUCH more afraid of the Soylent guys'
sheer ignorance than I am of any profit-motivated negligence on the part of
large frozen meal companies.

Edit: also read this thorough breakdown of Rob Rhinehart's claims regarding
Soylent by a health expert and nutritionist:
[http://www.businessinsider.com/rob-rhinehart-food-
substitute...](http://www.businessinsider.com/rob-rhinehart-food-substitute-
eating-disorder-2013-3)

~~~
josh2600
Ad Hominem attacks don't strengthen your argument.

From what I can tell, the Soylent team appears to be pursuing their goals in
an admirably scientific fashion. Although there's quite a bit of work to do, I
recall an article from a couple of days ago on HN that was talking about the
wonderful work the big guys are doing. This quote from General Mills is
priceless:

>In a public comment posted on the FTC website, our friends at General Mills
pointed out that under the IWG guidelines, the most commonly consumed foods in
the US would be considered unhealthy. Specifically, according to General
Mills, “of the 100 most commonly consumed foods and beverages in America, 88
would fail the IWG’s proposed standards.” [1]

I understand your disagreement, I disagree with your ad hominem attack and
think that there may be some merit to the Soylent team and their claims,
especially when taken in light of the General Mills comments.

[1][http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-
blog/2013/05/19/de...](http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-
blog/2013/05/19/dear-american-consumers-please-dont-start-eating-healthfully-
sincerely-the-food-industry/)

~~~
w1ntermute
> This quote from General Mills is priceless

There is a _world_ of difference between "unsafe" and "unhealthy." I am not
claiming that frozen dinners are healthy. Far from it - I avoid them like the
plague. However, they are not going to land you in the hospital in the short
term.

> think that there may be some merit to the Soylent team and their claims

The fundamental issue is that statements like "there may be some merit" might
be sufficient for trying an iPhone app. It is _NOT_ sufficient for trying a
radically new diet like this one.

~~~
josh2600
>It is NOT sufficient for trying a radically new diet like this one.

To you. It's your opinion, not mine. You could say "The FDA would strongly
condemn something like this" or "I think this is unsafe" but you can't say it
is not sufficient for everyone just because you feel that way.

You can't make blanket claims that apply to all of humanity; being an
absolutist only works if you're a Sith Lord.

~~~
DanBC
> You can't make blanket claims that apply to all of humanity

Except Soylent are doing exactly that.

~~~
josh2600
That's called marketing. When a business does it, you take it with a grain of
salt. When an individual says something like this, you have to take it a
little more seriously otherwise you're not giving the person their due.

But I do appreciate your point and you did make me scratch my head when I
first read it.

------
alex_c
I read this initially assuming it to be a clever spoof on the whole startup /
crowdsourcing scene, because of the name: pick something that is obviously a
joke product ("Soylent Green is people!") and run with it - start piling on
impressive claims, include startup-y backgrounds for the founders, and be
really vague about what the product actually is. Given my initial
interpretation, I thought the "Is soylent vegan available yet" FAQ was
particularly hilarious.

Then I started reading the HN comments, and initially assumed them to be
tongue-in-cheek replies running with the joke: the typical "this is why it
won't work", the usual "this is why it's a bad idea", the inevitable "it's
actually amazing, stop being so negative". But that gradually stopped making
sense the further I read, with people appearing to take it way too seriously
for a simple spoof.

So thanks HN, you've managed to confuse me completely. This might be a sign
I've been spending too much time here lately.

~~~
ellyagg
Yep, I thought it was a joke at first, too.

Since the term soylent is widely understood to mean human remains masquerading
as food, the name suggests pretense.

He wrote:

    
    
        Before I rarely had enough energy to go to
        the gym, but this day I had plenty so I 
        decided to put the diet to the test. I'd been
        running off and on for several months, never 
        able to do more than a mile straight, but
        this day I ran 3.14 miles non-stop. This is an
        irrational improvement.
    

!! Indeed, it does sound irrational, doesn't it? In fact, whether this is a
hint or he's just being cute, I literally don't believe that Soylent caused
this uptick in performance. Want to bet on the results of a double blind
study?

Elsewhere, he said he only needs 1/3 the calories on Soylent, which was
explained away by an apologist in the comments as a figure of speech, or
perhaps art of rhetoric, but that explanation is contradicted by his precise
descriptions elsewhere and worrisome in this context regardless.

There were more jokes like that, conveniently allowing its author to laugh at
people no matter whether he's being truthful or not. Parts of the campaign are
patronizing and condescending and they've shown no desire to fix that aspect,
making me more leery due to the immaturity. Should I trust my health to such a
cavalier attitude?

I lean toward it being legit, but they've got a long ways to go to catch up
with the cutting edge of understanding in nutrition science and it's not clear
what advantage they'll be able to offer over established meal replacement
drinks like Ensure, which most people don't want to drink today. Improved
taste? You can get rats to overfeed to fatness on chocolate Ensure. Expertise?
No. For personal use, Soylent Orange is more convenient, available today, and
safer, IMO:

[http://lesswrong.com/lw/h2h/i_hate_preparing_food_my_solutio...](http://lesswrong.com/lw/h2h/i_hate_preparing_food_my_solution/)

~~~
princess3000
Also notable is that he ran exactly pi miles.

e: AND called that an "irrational improvement." That must be a joke or
something...

~~~
d23
Which is an irrational number. This _has_ to be a joke.

Edit: Okay, you beat me to it :P

Edit 2: Are we the same person?

~~~
princess3000
Ha, at first I just noticed that he ran exactly 3.14 and thought "well, that
number sounds familiar." Then I thought that "irrational" was a strange way to
describe running a longer distance than normal and just put the two
together...

On his blog [1] he talks about running 3.14 constantly, so it's possible that
he chooses to run pi miles on purpose regularly. Who knows.

[1] (cached)
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:kUt_beW...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:kUt_beWntwUJ:robrhinehart.com/%3Fp%3D474+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

------
Eliezer
I'm in for $65, because I've run out of patience with everyone wisely nodding
caution and not trying to solve the problem themselves. Like a lot of
metabolically disadvantaged people, I feel betrayed and tossed off a cliff by
a society that doesn't understand and doesn't care. You want to know how
desperate we are? Read this:

[http://www.shaman-
australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=35...](http://www.shaman-
australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=35552)

That's the next alternative if Soylent doesn't work. Now either offer a design
for a _better_ food replacement, or shut up and get out of the way.

~~~
jckt
Do you mind explaining why Soylent is the solution for metabolically
disadvantaged people as opposed to a "traditionally balanced diet"?

~~~
Eliezer
Because we tried your traditionally balanced diet, the high-protein diet, the
high-fat diet, the paleo diet, the improved paleo diet, the four-hour diet,
and yes, exercise, and nothing worked. (Shangri-La resulted in 20 pounds of
very easy weight loss then stopped working and never worked again.) Maybe
Soylent won't work either, but the concept behind Soylent seems dissimilar to
all of those diets along dimensions in which they are similar to each other,
so I'm going to try it.

~~~
cwilson
I'm very optimistic about Soylent and just paid for a month, but saying
exercise did not work for you is worrisome. Moving around heavy objects and
maintaining a healthy diet (which Soylent may make easier to do) are the key
to health, plain and simple.

What kind of exercise did you do, at what intensity, and for how long?

The creator of Soylent will be the first to tell you this (he works out quite
a bit).

------
DanBC
Some people said that it was only a matter of time before this person started
charging money for this crank product, and I guess this proves them right.

He's making a number of health claims on that page. I'm curious about the
legality of doing so; it's not legal in the UK unless he meets some pretty
strict criteria.

> If not for this waste there would be plenty of food to adequately nourish
> everyone alive.

Waste food is a serious problem and something needs to be done. I'm not sure
there's a connection between food waste and world hunger.

> 2 million people are killed annually by smoke inhalation from indoor cooking
> stoves alone

This could be an interesting problem. Why do people use really inefficient
dirty open fires to cook? Why aren't they using better stoves? It's not as if
a stove requires huge amounts of resources.

~~~
smacktoward
Yeah really. If that figure is incorrect, building a better cook stove would
be an excellent place to apply some engineering know-how. Reinventing food is
less so.

~~~
postfuturist
People are working on this very problem: <http://ecozoomstove.com/>

------
jere
>Soylent is perfectly balanced and optimized for your body and lifestyle,
meaning it automatically puts you at an optimal weight, makes you feel full,
and improves your focus and cognition.

Citation needed. I'm a big fan of n=1, but making these kinds of claims
supported by anecdote and then asking for money based on those claims is
ridiculous.

~~~
jckt
Also, the quotations from the early adopters...they could at least say _who_
said those things, never mind whether or not they actually said them.

------
sp332
I got curious about this statement: _2 million people are killed annually by
smoke inhalation from indoor cooking stoves alone._ This is just wrong enough
to be misleading, since that figure actually includes heating, not just
cooking. <http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs292/en/> So soylent
wouldn't help in the cases where indoor pollution is caused by heating.

~~~
volandovengo
Really?? From all the comments about this idea/execution/etc, this is what you
chose to focus your attention on?!

~~~
DanBC
Soylent got a fact wrong.

Either they deliberately misreported something; in which case they're lying
while trying to raise money.

Or they made a mistake. And if they get something this simple wrong why should
I trust them when they're making something that I'm supposed to be able to
live on?

~~~
dvanduzer
PBS and Science Magazine allegedly got some facts wrong. Regardless, the WHO
is talking about three _billion_ indoor fires in primitive homes.

In most of these cases, there is no distinction between a "cooking stove" and
"heating stove" and whether these families require heating year round or not,
cooking is not a seasonal activity.

Splitting hairs on this point is dumb, though. The point of citing it at all
is to illustrate how big they are thinking. They want to solve _the entire
world's_ food problem. Isn't that scale of vision why we're all here?

~~~
DanBC
> They want to solve the entire world's food problem. Isn't that scale of
> vision why we're all here?

That's an amazing vision. Soylent shows little to no understanding of the
actual problems of food security. There doesn't appear to be any research into
the causes of food scarcity, or who is affected by food scarcity, or what a
sensible solution would be.

Soylent glop doesn't seem to do anything to increase local independence. Where
food could be grown and sold locally now people are importing a bunch of stuff
from elsewhere.

Here are some people in Mogadishu selling food.
([http://www.irinnews.org/Photo/Details/201207161308270312/Veg...](http://www.irinnews.org/Photo/Details/201207161308270312/Vegetable-
sellers-in-Bakara-market-Mogadishu))

How much Soylent does this child need?
(<http://pinterest.com/pin/278519558175219781/>)

How do you get Soylent to the Democratic Republic of Congo?

What do you do when people don't have clean water?

Soylent have made a strong link between food waste and world hunger. They
claim that waste here causes hunger there. That's clearly, blatantly, wrong.

I'm all for big ideas and thinking big, but so far this is either a cynical
scam or brutally ignorant.

~~~
dvanduzer
Prior art on the link between food waste and world hunger:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeoa0-U8-Yw>

The concept of Soylent is orthogonal to the slow food movement, but it isn't
incompatible with local production by definition.

None of your objections make any real sense. This is an early prototype of
balanced-diet-in-a-pill, but because they haven't solved the problem of clean
water across the globe, _they're_ the cynical ones?

------
ChuckMcM
Limited market appeal (folks who eat to live vs live to eat) and it lacks the
credibility of a clinical study done under the supervision of folks who have
the experience to evaluate the results.

So in that way it is simply another "look, eating this probably won't kill
you, at least not quickly." product. There are many of these introduced and
produced every year.

That said, to the extent that this guy can get traction for his effectively
artificial food, the big food companies will watch it and talk about it. If
there is something to it they might add their own toe in the water, or not.
Most recently they have been hammered pretty publicly about how their
manufactured food products aren't really much food (see "In Defense of Food"
as an example of the narrative)

~~~
marknutter
In the end though, it's just food. I could launch a kickstarter campaign that
sold veggie shakes and claim it makes people feel healthier when they drink
them and it would be no more harmful than this campaign.

~~~
gamegoblin
I think that the difference is that Soylent aims to replace (or come close to
replacing) one's entire diet.

~~~
marknutter
Nowhere do they recommend that you replace every single meal with Soylent and
the creator stated many times throughout his many blog posts that he continued
to eat normal meals whenever he felt like eating normal meals. This is in
contrast to something like the movie Fat Sick and Nearly Dead
(<http://www.fatsickandnearlydead.com/>) which actually _does_ recommend
drinking veggie shakes exclusively for every meal for 90 days.

~~~
jckt
Well their "Rewards" section is slightly misleading then. For $230, you can
get

"One Month's Supply of Soylent We'll ship enough Soylent to fully _replace one
month's worth of meals_. Shipping included."

~~~
marknutter
That to me doesn't sound like a recommendation to actually replace every
single meal for that month. Rather, it's a unit of measurement that provides
better context than simply giving the number of kilograms of powder you'll be
receiving. Even so, I don't think it would be harmful to do it for an entire
month anyways, and I doubt very many people will be that hardcore about it. It
will work perfectly as an occasional meal replacement for busy geeks on the
go. Attacking the extreme case is attacking the straw man, IMO.

~~~
jckt
Perhaps. There seems to be a lot of people who seem to have thought what I
thought, though. Maybe it would be better if they gave an all-out disclaimer
saying that, "no, Soylent cannot be considered as a replacement for your
balanced diet"?

From his blog, he really did seem to push the idea of making Soylent his only
food -- IIRC he felt like that the traditional idea of eating from a lot of
different sources was stressful (I guess the decision of what to eat, etc, was
stressful). His blog seems to be down for me right now, though, so I can't
confirm that.

~~~
marknutter
Yeah, I agree they should state that. He did mention a few times that he eats
normal meals when he wants to, but even at that it was only a few times a
week. If I buy the stuff I'm likely to only replace my breakfasts and lunches
and continue having dinner with my family.

------
tinco
It's crazy how strongly people react to the idea of this drink. It contains
only ingredients that are found in other nutrients. That means the FDA will
probably give it a stamp of approval without even giving it a second thought.

There's this idea that because we have such stringent laws governing our
medicine, we probably have such laws governing food too. But the reality of it
is that if you take a bunch of ingredients that have already been established
in the market and you throw them together you're allowed to call it food and
sell it in the supermarkets.

In a macabre way, if this drink _does_ seriously harm someone, and they sue
these guys that would actually be a good thing, because these guys are doing
nothing different from what the preprocessed food industry is doing. Except
that the preprocessed food industry optimizes for minimal ingredient costs and
maximal consumability, where Rob is optimizing Soylent for maximal ingredient
coverage and minimal consumation need, the exact opposite! We might actually
get some sane laws (like the rejected one that said food marketed for children
should consist of at least 50% nutrients)

Before you question the integrity of this project, please consider that Rob
himself has already been living almost exclusively for 4 months. No that does
not mean this product is by all means safe or that you should replicate him
without doubt, but it does mean he already put his _life_ on the line for the
idea of this product.

That being said, I do find it a bit disconcerting to see that all the
cautionary language of his blog is gone in this marketing site. It wasn't a
good idea to hire a sales person for this kind of project, he already has more
initial backing than he should need in my opinion.

------
NickM
This _would_ possibly interest me, but including nootropics without listing
them seems incredibly scary. It's one thing to include all the normal vitamins
and minerals your body needs, but to take it a step further and include mind-
altering substances seems absurd and questionably legal.

Maybe by "nootropics" they just mean everyday vitamins that have been shown to
benefit your brain, but that's certainly not what I think of when I hear that
term. Then again, maybe there's somewhere online where they actually list what
they're using, but I couldn't find any details on the campaign page.

~~~
beefman
Nope, one of the blog posts mentioned actual nootropics. They're playing
pretty fast and loose with the ingredients. If they're still experimenting (as
it seems they are), they should say so.

------
mindstab
Personally as a 20 something first worlder earning decent money in tech I am
interested in this. So part of me wishes they'd kept the advertising focused
on that. Because claiming to be able to tackle world hunger with this "long
shelf life, easy to prepare, and efficient no waste" product is disingenuous
unless they plan on lowering prices > 10x the listed kickstarter rewards. I'm
sorry white kids of America but world hunger is a little more complicated than
just waiting for you to come along with a powder. Your product will not end
subsistence farming. You want to know why? Take a look outside and around for
a change, travel, or read for a MINUTE: as pointed out elsewhere "Almost half
the world — over three billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day"[1]
($17.50 / week). Your $65/week product... not going to even register for them.
So good luck, I mean it, I'm interested in this product because I kind of eat
out too much and not well, and this can be a good product, but maybe reign in
the marketing kids because it's sounding nearly offensively naive when you
start talking about ending world hunger with this rich kids product for food.

[1] [http://www.globalissues.org/article/26/poverty-facts-and-
sta...](http://www.globalissues.org/article/26/poverty-facts-and-stats)

~~~
nawitus
The linked article states that the price will go down as production scales.
Besides, ingredients tend to be cheaper (in dollars) in poorer countries.

~~~
vecinu
So it's going to be manufactured in every single country it's sold? What other
products do this?

~~~
pbreit
Pretty much all food products.

------
eof
Without going on with the almost certainly absurd claim you can be perfectly
healthy, indefinitely, eating one shake.. There does seem to be a lot of
interest, I think mostly from people interested in the saving of time and
still getting good nutrition.

To those people, I highly recommend green protein smoothies.

They aren't cheap, really, but they are fast and done right they taste good
and will take an otherwise mediocre diet to better than 99% of people without
much other change (I am not a doctor, just an observer).

Some fruit, some leafy greens, some nuts, optionally some protein powder (my
favorite had been pea protein, but my nutritionist recommended alternating
protein sources every few weeks of doing it regularly).

Adding in some thing like vitamineral green and you are really doing alright.
Spending about 3-400 USD on a good blender and you can have an über healthy,
delicious meal replacement in minutes with about 30 seconds of clean up.

A mediocre blender still make the experience less enjoyable when using nuts
and tough greens like kale.

Expect an 800 calorie shake to cost maybe 3-5 bucks to put together depending
on your tastes, whether you go organic, and access to produce.

~~~
scottjad
My favorite green smoothie (lacks protein, I'll have to try the pea protein):

2 large handfuls of fresh spinach or kale, 1 apple or 6 strawberries, 1
banana, 1 tbsp ground flaxseed, 1 large handful of ice, 1-2 cups of water, 1/4
cup unsweetened almond milk

I prefer to drink it with a straw.

~~~
zeroexzeroone
Damn that sounds good - completely natural - save for possibly the emulsifiers
in the almond milk.

~~~
jimmar
Replace almond milk with almonds & water. Blend well.

------
ceejayoz
It's a pity no one on the team has any experience in a relevant field, and the
"Is it safe?" answer is absurd. You could say the same thing to deem
cigarettes safe.

~~~
volandovengo
Very true. They need a nuticionist on the team

~~~
breadbox
YM dietitian. A dietitian is someone with the relevant educational background,
at least in the US. (The title of "nutritionist", in contrast, has no legal
requirements, so they are perfectly free to call themselves nutritionists if
they want to.)

------
papa_bear
This is kind of what I wanted to accomplish by building Eat This Much[1],
ideally making eating and staying healthy at the same time less of a chore.

I'm really on board with the idea, but what got me interested was the notion
that it would be easy to adjust the formula to my needs, e.g. choose a
different ratio of various powders if I want to gain weight, lose weight, or
compensate for some genetic difference.

[1] <http://www.eatthismuch.com>

~~~
toomuchtodo
Eat This Much subscriber here. Thanks for the awesome product/service.

------
nemo1618
I think HN's hatred of Soylent has been increasing exponentially as we get
closer to a mass-market release. What's with all the negativity? If you don't
like it, don't buy it -- easy as that.

It may not be the perfect product, but at least it's pushing some boundaries.
I, for one, am excited to get my hands on a batch and let the results speak
for themselves.

~~~
DanBC
What boundaries is it pushing?

Liquid feed is not new.

~~~
dgabriel
Right? Medifast. Optifast. Slimfast. There are literally thousands of options.

------
niico
"We have been testing Soylent on ourselves for several months and the data
shows it to have a positive nutritional benefit."

No shit. Seriously, who is going to try this powder made by this twenty-
somethings guys with no background in any kind of health nor nutrition
studies.

It reminds me to the Power Balance scam
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Balance>

~~~
josscrowcroft
Apparently 1,016 backers, with $130,000 kicking about, at last count.

------
gojomo
I'm glad such eccentric projects are pursued – they're how progress happens –
but it's still the case that...

(a) Both the 1973 Charlton Heston movie and mixed, some-negative health
connotations of the word 'soy' make the chosen name for the product
problematic.

(b) The argument for its safety – "We have been testing Soylent on ourselves
for several months and the data shows it to have a positive nutritional
benefit" – creates little confidence compared to thousands of years of
alternate practice, and strong evidence the human system needs some
variety/chaos for optimal health/resilience.

------
Afforess
Looking forward to this. There has been a lot of FUD, and I think some of it
is valid, so I'm choosing the 1 week supply option to give it a try. I'd like
to replace 1 of my meals each day with this, I hate having to deal with
cooking and cleaning up in small temporary apartments.

~~~
DanBC
I hope you enjoy it! It'd be interesting to hear how you get on.

If you decide you don't like soylent there are a bunch of other products from
other more mainstream manufacturers.

Fortisip and Ensure are the two brands I'm most familiar with, but there are
others. Fortisip do wide range of different style products (shake, juice,
yoghurt, and 'savory'.) But it's an acquired taste.

I'm not sure why they have two trailing slashes.
(<https://www.nutricia.co.uk/fortisip//>)

(<http://ensure.com/>)

~~~
rosser
You might want to avoid Ensure. In a test where it was used in place of the
standard glucose solution for an oral glucose tolerance test, it caused 2 hour
blood glucose levels over 180 mg/dl in some subjects.

Sure, it's marketed as having a low glycemic index — but the GI of chocolate
cake and ice cream is even lower...

------
jonathanjaeger
Would be nice if you put nutrition facts on the campaign page. I wouldn't buy
without seeing those. Here is what I found ("What's In Soylent?"):
<http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424>

The macronutrient breakdown based on calories per gram is 50% carbs, 13%
protein, 37% fat, if I'm not mistaken. I'd rather have a bit more protein and
a bit less fat, personally.

~~~
beefman
I still don't see an ingredients list. I believe one will be required to sell
this in the U.S.

[http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Food/GuidanceRegulation/UCM2654...](http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Food/GuidanceRegulation/UCM265446.pdf)

~~~
atdrummond
They'll also want to get their production facility cGMP certified, which is
going to substantially raise short term prices in addition to those associated
with FDA labeling procedures.

------
Xanza
I'm actually really pissed off at this product -- as with many, I've had both
high hopes and reservations since the start of this whole ordeal.

With me being a college student with a VERY limited budget I get very little
nutrition that's needed for my body to operate normally. I was so turned on to
this product because it was initially advertised to cost the creator between
$50 and $100 per month. Now, all of a sudden it's going to cost me $230 just
to get started.

It's starting to sound more and more like a scam; I'm pretty livid.

~~~
jgj
I'm not sure that the cost of a month's supply on this campaign is necessarily
what it will ultimately cost in full production. The prices listed here, I
assume, are what they think they need to charge to reach their 100k goal to
enter mass production (based on how many people they expect will support the
campaign). Ultimately they have a lot more costs than just the price of the
ingredients, and their first run is likely to be more expensive than
subsequent runs.

~~~
gwern
Exactly. If it really cost $65/week or whatever the Kickstarter is charging,
why would they bother doing it? The whole point is apparently to raise funds
to cover all the startup costs - of course you are paying more than the
marginal cost of Soylent.

------
raddoc
As a physician with a degree in biochemistry, I am no expert but will throw in
a few thoughts.

1) All foods are broken down into their respective molecular constituents
(free fatty acids, glucose, amino acids, etc) through a series of enzymatic
reactions. These nutrients are ultimately absorbed through the wall of the
bowel or what remains passes as feces. This is true whether you are eating
lettuce, ribs, a slice of bread, or this soylent product.

2) Frankly, I see no difference in this product from any other meal
replacement powder available in bulk at any nutrition store. If we ever see a
nutrition label, I suspect it will look strikingly similar to Slim Fast.

------
tghw
Oh good, it has antioxidants! Which have been shown to actually increase
mortality slightly when given to healthy people[1].

I really like the idea, but until they apply some real science to it, I'll
pass.

[1] [http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD007176/antioxidant-
supplemen...](http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD007176/antioxidant-supplements-
for-prevention-of-mortality-in-healthy-participants-and-patients-with-various-
diseases)

~~~
jere
Yea, it's rather silly to claim that Soylent contains no toxins. It's been
suggested that the positive effects of antioxidants may arise through
hormesis: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antioxidant#Pro-
oxidant_activit...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antioxidant#Pro-
oxidant_activities)

------
supes
Feels like they are jumping the gun in terms of saying this could help with
malnutrition in developing countries. Starving and malnutrished people can't
just drink a meal replacement shake and be fine, especially kids. There are
many other factors that must be taken into consideration. For example see
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plumpy%27nut> . I saw this on 60 minutes a few
years back.

"Plumpy'nut is a peanut-based paste in a plastic wrapper for treatment of
severe acute malnutrition... They are also relatively high in calories, which
means that a patient receives a lot of nutrition from small amounts, important
because malnutrition shrinks the stomach."

------
create_account
While their high level goals (eliminate hunger, reduce stress on agricultural
and environmental resources) are laudable, this project suffers from the same
arrogance of doctors in the 1960s who said mother's milk was primitive and
could be replaced by artificial formula.

Now, in hindsight, we know what a mistake that was, as natural breast milk
contained compounds which decreased various cancer and health risks.

I cannot help but think they are going down the same road.

~~~
jongraehl
I for one will be sticking to breast milk.

------
crusso
This went from "interesting self-hacking experiment worth watching" to " train
wreck of a health and liability hazard" in a fairly short time.

Not good.

------
gcb0
Still doesn't answer how this is much different than just another kind of diet
shake.

~~~
mc-lovin
It's a diet shake where the seller goes "you know what, fuck it, I don't
recommend that you eat a balanced diet, and I do recommend you replace all
your meals with this shake"

~~~
smacktoward
and "of course it's safe, I've been eating it for, like, months now"

~~~
jere
"And I've only noticed a single deficiency! So far."

------
gojomo
Per "Poe's Law", I would not rule out the idea that this is an extended
prank/art-project.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law>

~~~
d23
There is no doubt this is. The "irrational" improvements to 3.14 (read: pi),
the ridiculous name, the complete lack of evidence -- all point to obvious
parody.

------
enraged_camel
The most depressing thing about this whole thing is the alarmingly high number
of commenters here who seem to not have the most basic grasp of how science
works, and what types of evidence are necessary before something can be deemed
safe.

Here is a hint, folks: it is called a random controlled trial. Until these
Soylent guys conduct a few of those and show that their product is not only
just better, but also safe for consumption, it needs to be dismissed and
ignored.

------
saalweachter
How well does this stack up against the milk-and-potatoes diet?

According to the popular science/history book _1493_ , it is more-or-less a
complete diet in itself. The two datapoints it uses to back this up are a
story about two Polish scientists who ate nothing but potatoes and milk (or
milk products, like cheese and butter) for a year, and remained in perfect
heath for the duration, and the claim that prior to the Potato Famine, 25% of
the Irish population was already surviving on nothing but milk and potatoes
indefinitely, and they were regarded as a healthy and hale race.

A 2000 calorie diet of milk and potatoes (4 cups 2% milk, 5.5 300g potatoes)
costs around $65 / day. Preparation time involves as little as microwaving a
potato and pouring a glass of milk.

~~~
ceejayoz
I don't know where you buy your milk and potatoes but they shouldn't be
costing you $65/day. :-)

~~~
saalweachter
Whoops, meant $65 / month.

------
TheCoelacanth
I get that the name "Soylent" was originally coined in a book that did not
involve cannibalism in any way, but it still seems like a very bad choice of
name. "Soylent green is people" is much more well known than any allusion to
_Make Room! Make Room!_ can possibly be.

------
angkec
It's interesting to see everything went from supportive on soylent to very
negative after they published this campaign. I wonder what has changed?

~~~
wch
Experimenting on yourself with replacing food with shakes is one thing. I find
that an interesting project, and I'm sure many others did as well.

On the other hand, selling this stuff with claims like, "Soylent is perfectly
balanced and optimized for your body and lifestyle, meaning it automatically
puts you at an optimal weight, makes you feel full, and improves your focus
and cognition," is another thing completely. It sounds like a total scam,
especially since they don't even say what's in it.

------
deathcakes
I can't help but feel that this is such an 'engineers' solution to something
that isn't really a problem - whilst I agree that a cheap, reliable and
efficient way to feed a lot of people is something that the world is sorely in
need of, I can't understand why someone would opt for this through choice and
not necessity.

Which is nothing more than a failure of my imagination, of course, and I'm not
seriously suggesting that anyone who does is defective in any way, but I feel
like most of life's greatest pleasures come directly from the preparation and
consumption of food. To want to get rid of these pleasures in the name of
efficiency is a strange argument to my mind.

I'm 100% behind the vat grown meat brigade on this one.

~~~
marknutter
For me one of life's greatest annoyances is the preparation and consumption of
food, like 90% of the time I have to eat. To each their own, I guess.

~~~
jgj
Agreed. I'm a pretty good cook, but I can't stand doing it upwards of 99% of
the time. I appreciate the shit out of a good meal, but I appreciate a
mediocre meal that took me 0 effort to acquire much, much more than even the
best meal that took me so much as 1 effort to acquire. Pour water into
container and shake is about as low effort as I can imagine for a
nutritionally complete meal, and if I die from liver failure after a month
then I just wasn't meant to be.

------
collypops
Rob has been testing (and modifying) Soylent for mere months. He has a bunch
of human Guinea Pigs that have been testing various mixes for mere weeks. How
is a Kickstarter-esque campaign the logical next step?

It sounds like the guys behind this are impatient, overconfident and reckless.
Worse than that, they're preying on those caught up in how fashionable crowd-
funding is these days. I doubt very much that a website like Kickstarter would
actually get behind a project like this, which is why they've had to roll
their own website.

If these guys had a background in Bromatology and did their due diligence
before launching this campaign, I'd be skeptical. Just imagine how confident I
am, given the reality.

------
petercooper
I hope they eventually state all of the potential allergens that are in this.
As I've gotten older I've become very sensitive to various foods (especially
anything with lactose in it) and this sort of thing appeals to me, but if it
had lactose in it, say, it could be.. interesting ;-) Ditto for people with
peanut allergies and the like.

~~~
atdrummond
I wouldn't count on them providing an exhaustive list. They already claim
Soylent is allergen free, despite using whey protein. Yet beta-lactoglobulin
is a well known allergen present in whey protein.

------
mscottmcbee
I've been following this for a while, and I'm excited to see it start to come
together. I hope a lot of people aren't turned off by this pseudo Kickstarter,
and wonder why Kickstarter turned them down in the first place.

~~~
drharris
I imagine Kickstarter turned them down because of potential liability if
something goes wrong. Replacing food with chemicals makes sense to scientists
and engineers, but I imagine this has the potential to be lawsuit-heavy for
the average people out there (my back aches, must be the Soylent).

Edit: specifically, these two guidelines:

\- Projects cannot offer financial, medical, or health advice.

\- No tobacco, drugs, and drug paraphernalia; energy food and drinks; or
nutritional supplements.

~~~
jonathanjaeger
Kickstarter is for creative projects with a finite ending point. For example,
you can't launch a website and raise funds on Kickstarter so you can pay
engineers -- it needs to be a concrete project, not "I want to start a
company." The same is true for Soylent, it isn't framed as a project.

------
devonbarrett
Although I love the concept, backing a team that does not even have a single
chemist or nutritionist in it is worrying.

------
chollida1
I think the biggest issue I see here is that they are selling a dietary
supplement and they don't have a licensed or even a trained nutritionist or
doctor on their startup team.

That's pretty scary to me. Who is the person who is certifying this as safe
for meal replacement?

Where is the clinical study that was done before this was released to people?

------
Duhck
I truly hope this is successful, not in the sense that these guys monetize it
and become millionaires, but that the world in general does need a way to
supplement our diets in a more sustainable way.

What irks me though, is the lack of a true clinical trial.

This fundraising effort is for the supplement itself when it really should be
for clinical trials to prove the stuff is safe and works.

Perhaps they are scared of the results, or perhaps they really believe in
their product, either way this is in the wrong direction and people COULD get
hurt.

------
xefer
The logo seems to be a benzene ring. When I see that I think "poison" not
"health"

~~~
Udo
It could also be any other C6 ring. To me, it simply looks "organic" ;)

------
russelluresti
I've been following the Soylent articles since they were posted and have been
pretty interested in it. Definitely going to have to give thought to backing
this.

------
mjt0229
Although some of the lofty stated goals of this project seem commendable, this
is one of the worst ideas I have heard in a long time. I can't tell if it's a
joke, but I hope that it is.

------
btbuildem
Yes, because a handful of smiley tech nerd kids know nutrition better than
professional researchers with decades of experience, backed by hundreds of
millions of dollars annually.

~~~
jimmar
I'd put more stock in nutrition researchers if their advice was remotely
consistent from decade to decade.

~~~
alan_cx
Do you understand "research" at all?

They study, they tell us what they find, they study more, and tell us new
information, and keep going, getting better and more refined as they progress.
More researchers test the claims, and prove it one way or another. If this
isn't good enough for you, then at what point would information ever be good
enough for you? Do you expect a time when knowledge is complete and set?

You prefer the ideas of non researchers, people with no foundation in the
subject or scientific methods? You prefer their advice? You might as well take
your scientific facts from a bloke in a bar.

------
revelation
Do they really expect to market this without even listing whats in that thing?
And why does not a single person in their team have any credentials in the
area whatsoever?

------
gcb0
Anyone ever heard of the kickstarter clone they are using?
<http://www.crowdhoster.com/>

it seems to just be a implementation of Selfstarter with a backend to process
payments, but at the same time they boast "Free to use"... how can a payment
processing be free?

~~~
gergles
It uses Crowdtilt to process payments, which takes 2.5%. Although the wording
of the statement isn't crystal clear; they may charge the people wishing to
contribute an extra 2.5%? Regardless, 2.5% gets skimmed off for payment
processing.

<https://www.crowdtilt.com/learn/fees>

------
christianrahn
I'm extremely interested in this...concept.

But for someone trying to hack nutrition this way, you would think they would
open the ingredients, or at least offer research sources.

Knowing the contents of Soylent isn't going to stop anyone from buying it
(convenience), but it would allow people to understand some of these bold
claims.

~~~
Afforess
They have. Soylent Formula: <http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424>

------
cpeterso
What does Soylent taste like? What does "the body doesn't have to get rid of
unused waste" mean? I'm reminded of the episode of _Seinfeld_ where Kramer
goes on an all-yogurt diet for a week. :\

Also, it's a little disconcerting when the only founder with any food or
biotech background is the sales guy.

------
hapkins
Out of curiosity, if Soylent really does provide every nutrient the body
requires, would that mean a user would no longer have to defecate?

My reasoning is if every nutrient is absorbed and used, there is no physical
waste left, and all toxins and byproducts would be expelled through urine.

~~~
atdrummond
Having done pure liquid diets (with significantly reduced caloric loads) on
numerous occasions (not by choice, unlike these fellows) this is mostly true.
One will typically see bowel movement frequency drop dramatically, although
not entirely to zero in my case.

That said, I am missing a significant length of digestive tract, so my
experience may be atypical. I would also note that that as calories increase,
to or above your metabolic needs, that this effect would likely diminish.

------
mdisraeli
I believe that Soylent uses Whey protein, because of common allergies to Soy
protein... which is amusing, since an intolerance to milk protein runs in my
family, and appears to be quite common too.

In fact, an extremely common request of clinical nutritionists is for a non-
diary product, especially for ones aimed at children.

I strongly urge Soylent to try and gain the help of someone with experience
within the established industry and get their assistance. Whilst us hackers
might be happy to take the risk at this stage, someone with industry
experience and knowledge of product development and production would bring
invaluable skill. Plus, they'd be best placed to answer any questions about
FDA issues, etc

Disclaimer: I have a family member who works in this field

------
loupeabody
I'm going to put $65 up for this as I've been eager to try Soylent since it
first popped up on HN.

Clearly this is a very controversial topic, but the general attitude for most
of the supporters (myself included) appears to be that if no serious negative
effects have been exposed from consuming Soylent in three months, it must be
safe to _try_.

Is there any possibility that consuming Soylent for a while (say, a week to a
month) and then stopping cold-turkey could be significantly harmful to one's
digestion? Maybe? I guess we'll find out when the first round of supplies is
consumed.

Another thing, props on the campaign and having already been funded, but let's
hope the next promo video does less to seem like a run-of-the-mill
infomercial... :\

------
bfung
A request for those who might go on the Soylent diet, starting in july (a
month before the estimated shipping date), during your Soylent diet:

    
    
      1. Record your current height
      2. Record daily: weight + timestamp, sleep start time, sleep stop time, 
         food consumption (http://www.livestrong.com/thedailyplate/ perhaps to help 
         or alternatives), exercise, 
         and how you feel physically (tired, energetic, sleepy...).
      3. Blog about your experience and contribute the data to science.
    

No point in bashing or hyping this up, we'll have some data points in a few
months.

Disclaimer: I will not be participating in this experiment, but am interested
in the results. =D

------
typicalrunt
_Is soylent vegan available yet?_

 _Not yet. This first run will be the regular vegetarian soylent, but it is
lactose free, kosher, halal, and absent of all known allergens_

I believe soy is an allergy to some people. What does "absent of all known
allergens" mean then?

~~~
Judson
They use a whey protein - I don't believe the formula contains soy.

~~~
steveklabnik
Doesn't whey protein contain lactose?

~~~
Judson
There are two types of Whey protein, concentrate and isolate.

Whey protein isolate is a more "pure" form or whey protein that does not
contain lactose. Whey concentrate is cheaper, but does contain some lactose.

The site mentions that the formula is lactose free, so I imagine they are
using Whey Isolate.

~~~
steveklabnik
Gotcha. Thank you.

------
outworlder
I can't believe this is anything other than a carefully constructed joke.

I guess that a few months from now we'll see a New York Times article
explaining how a fake startup with a fake product managed to raise seed
capital.

------
jbarham
I'm calling it: Soylent is the Pets.com of this investment cycle. Ironically
dog food is probably more nutritionally balanced than Soylent, which is almost
beyond parody.

------
tzs
If you want to see why this is a terrible idea if you care about your health,
with plenty of cites to peer-reviewed science, read "In Defense of Food" by
Michael Pollan.

~~~
taude
May as well put a Michael Pollan quote in here with some simple, sane ideas
for eating: "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants."

------
nemof
If any of you are foolhardy enough to try this stuff, please please please get
your physician to do a full workup before, and do regular repeat checkups.

------
atarian
You know, some of the things that ended up being super successful (Velcro,
shopping carts) are the things that a whole bunch of people initially panned
and rejected.

I feel pretty confident that this is the case right now. A lot of people here
are shitting on these guys for creating something that completely contradicts
our notion of nutrition. I for one, support this new venture and wish them the
best of luck.

------
yadamo
Let's stop and think. This is a _good thing_. The truth is, none of us know
whether or not it's snake oil. Just because we don't have enough information
to prove it isn't a farce (besides the founders' insistence on their good
health), does not mean we have enough information to prove that it is. Is it
dangerous? _Highly_ unlikely. The vast majority of early adopters will
probably be people at least somewhat characteristic of this community, meaning
smart enough to know that if something makes you feel awful, you should
probably stop eating it. If you bought a month's supply, maybe you get burned
a few hundred bucks and it wasn't the best decision. If you bought a week's
supply, you tried it for a few days and felt terrible, just make the
intelligent decision and stop eating it (or drinking or whatever the process
of consumption should be called). Whether or not the people behind this are
looking out for everyone else, we don't know. But let's be honest, neither is
McDonald's or even the businesses stocking microwave dinners in grocery
stores. They're in it to make a profit, not to fill you with the proper
nutrition. Frankly, the goal of many of the businesses in the food industry is
to cause customers to crave the product, often at the expense of nutrition
(i.e. by loading with sugar, conditioning the brain to crave more). To say
that they know better than these 20-somethings who have been collecting some
actual data besides "hm, tastes good" is exceptionally naive. Your average gym
rat eats far healthier than a microwave dinner diet. This could be bad. But
none of us have the data to prove it. Until then, I'm hopeful. Innovation in
this industry is long overdue. To say that these 'kids' are too young or
inexperienced to make a real innovation and prove us all wrong, is a shame,
especially in this community. Is it perfect for everyone? Doubtful. Is it
better, on average, than the diet many of us are consuming? Well, that just
might be true. Who are we to say it isn't?

------
brown9-2
Is it me or is the nutritional breakdown of the drink not listed anywhere?

~~~
Afforess
It is. Soylent Formula: <http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424>

------
steveklabnik
> vegan

I don't even really believe soylent is legit, but it's interesting enough to
plunk down money for. However, this is kinda a deal-breaker.

How exactly is Soylent currently not vegan?

EDIT: Re-reading <http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424> , it's implied that this
uses whey protein. I've used hemp protein rather than whey before.

Also, it'd be green then. ;)

------
leot
I have a soylent-like thing that I've started eating, and I've personally
found the impact to be wonderful. It's arguably easier, and it's potentially
healthier.

It is extremely inexpensive, delicious, vegetarian/vegan-if-eggs-are-omitted,
flexible, nutrient rich, high in fiber, high in good fats, relatively "slow-
cal"/low glycemic index, wheat gluten-free, protein rich, easy to digest, and
very quick to prepare.

Pre-cooked in large quantity weekly/every-two-weeks:

\- quinoa (2 minutes total prep time, in a large cheap rice cooker) \- sweet
potatoes (4 minutes total prep time -- simply baked in foil 30 mins to a side
at 425 F) \- beans (I do black beans, Mexican style -- this can take a fair
bit longer, but they're super tasty, and can last 2-3 weeks if portions are
frozen)

In the morning ...

Ingredients \- olive oil (1/4 to 1/2 a cup) \- pre-cooked quinoa (3/4 - 1.5
cups) \- pre-cooked sweet potato (1/2 - 1 cup) \- pre-cooked beans (1/2 - 1
cup) \- eggs (1-4) \- greens (kale/spinach/chard/whatever) \- salt and peper
\- hot sauce!!

I pour the olive oil in a large cast iron skillet (cast iron is the best!). I
then add the cooked quinoa and fry at high heat for maybe five minutes -- the
quinoa should absorb most of the oil (there should be no smoking or
anything!).

Then I add some beans and some sweet potato (skins on! and, for the last few
mornings I haven't had beans so it's been sweet potato only) and mix it all
up. Then comes some chopped up vegetables (kale/spinach/chard). When the
vegetables are 70% cooked or so I add one to four eggs (this morning it was
four). I mix the eggs in with the rest of the hot conglomeration and cook them
very briefly, being careful to avoid having them spend too much time on the
hot skillet (which makes them rubbery).

I then put the hot mess into a bowl. If I have avocados (as I do now) I chop
one up and mix it with some salt and lemon juice and put it on top of
everything. I usually douse it all with hot sauce, repeatedly.

I estimate that my breakfasts are typically between 1800 and 2800 calories,
though some days (like today) I only get through a part of it, in which case I
save it for later. If I get through it all, it usually means I don't have to
worry about eating anything more than a snack at dinner time. This has the
benefit of avoiding the afternoon food-coma caused by lunch.

I wash the meal down with some homemade carrot-ginger-apple-greens-beet juice
(mixed in with a bit of creatine).

~~~
papsosouid
What you described is absolutely not healthier. You are clearly not meeting
100% RDI on many vitamins and minerals. Where is your vitamin E? Why is the
quinoa even there? That is only "protein rich" if you are eating 4 eggs, and
are very generous with your definition of "protein rich".

~~~
leot
That wasn't a very helpful criticism. The basic principle of pre-cooking
quinoa, beans, and sweet-potatoes is a good one for many people who want ease
of preparation, tastiness, "real food", and something much healthier than what
they're currently eating.

Also, the nutrition data site says that it's got ~124% of the recommended
vitamin E (<http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/recipe/2832909/2>)

What would you add to this to make it better?

~~~
papsosouid
I don't understand why you think it isn't helpful. You are suggesting that as
an alternative to soylent. It is a very poor alternative, and I explained why.
I wouldn't add anything, I'd toss it away and start over. You don't try to
build on a base of high calorie, low nutrient food like quinoa and olive oil.
You had to max out everything in that recipe, which puts you at 2400 kcal, way
over what most people need. And you are still seriously lacking in half a
dozen essential nutrients, and are low on omega3s. Those percentages listed
are based on someone who needs to consume 2000 kcal, so you want to aim for
100% at 2000 kcal.

~~~
leot
Most people wouldn't consider (extra virgin) olive oil or quinoa to be high
calorie/low nutrient -- what percentile would you put nutrients/calorie ratio
of, e.g., quinoa? That said, it's easy to reduce the caloric content of the
above recipe by simply decreasing the olive oil (I increased it because I have
higher caloric needs).

And, though I didnt' mention it, I typically consume the meal with capsules of
fish and cod liver oil.

"Very poor" alternative? Really? What kind curve are you grading on, exactly?
I would say twinkies, or meat-and-potatoes, or anything that took hours to
prepare, would be "very poor" alternatives. If this is a "very poor"
alternative, what is a "reasonable" alternative, then?

~~~
papsosouid
If you reduce the oil to a reasonable amount, you are putting the vitamin E
deficiency back. If you don't come anywhere close to approaching 100% RDI of
half of the known essential nutrients, then you are proposing a poor
alternative to something that covers 100% of all of them. Especially when you
require 20% more calories to still be massively deficient. The fact that an
all twinky diet would be worse does not make your option a "potentially
healthier" alternative to soylent.

------
shurcooL
I really hope they're able to ship to Canada soon. :( I just donated $50 to
the cause until then.

I believe in the general cause so much, that even if there's only 1% something
good will come out of this particular project, I'll happily take that chance.

~~~
caublestone
Thank You So Much! We will work to get it across the border asap.

------
gclaramunt
Only one individual and only three months is far from enough to claim that
works. I bet you can go better (and safer!) with military rations. Pretty sure
the army/air force would have those experiments nailed down in the 50'

------
postfuturist
"... antioxidants, probiotics, and nootropics. It's everything the body
needs." - Soylent video

"It's a single cell protein combined with synthetic aminos, vitamins, and
minerals. Everything the body needs." - from The Matrix

------
Selfcommit
Anyone else pick up on the fact that they claim to be allergen free? They use
whey protein in the drink, so way are they even close to allergen free.

They also have a poor understanding of what constitutes an allergen.

------
jckt
This is an interesting parallel to another article on the front-page right
now:

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5743419>

------
owencm
I've started a wiki page on Slant.co for people to outline the main arguments
why Soylent may or may not be healthy since these threads can be very hard to
follow all the great discussion going back and forth!

Please help me flesh it out so it can help people come to their own conclusion
about Soylent's safety: [http://www.slant.co/topics/695/~is-it-safe-to-
replace-my-die...](http://www.slant.co/topics/695/~is-it-safe-to-replace-my-
diet-with-soylent)

------
nsxwolf
STILL sticking with that absolutely horrific name, I see? You should seriously
give out DVDs of the film as rewards.

How about a sleeping pill named Quietus[1]?

[1] Children of Men reference, film version

~~~
Afforess
Horrible? Try genius. Instant recognizability, causes tons of comments. Any
press is good press.

~~~
nsxwolf
Well what may doom them is that their concoction looks like human snot, or
even semen.

------
Kiro
I personally don't find the promises hard to believe. Losing or maintaining
weight is all about energy in/energy out. If you keep a consistent kcal intake
controlling weight will be easy. For the cognitive effects it's easy to
understand once you realise how taxing it is to digest food. Anyone who has
been fasting or been on a lean diet knows that it makes you much more vibrant
and sharp.

------
gems
Let people take risks. They can die if they'd like.

------
tocomment
Ever since I heard about this project I've been trying to make my own version.

I've found it's surprisingly hard to make something healthy that doesn't make
me gag. So far I tried egg protein powder mixed with chia seeds, olive oil,
plain yogurt and a banana.

I'm now thinking I'd be better off with something solid that I could eat on
the go. I haven't seen a good recipe though.

~~~
DanBC
Why don't you try the existing liquid feeds?

~~~
tocomment
I like the idea of gettin more olive oil in my diet. Also the existing ones
have too many carbs and aren't filling.

------
peteysd
The launch of this campaign is about a month and a half late. It would have
been much more appropriate to launch on April 1st.

------
cookingrobot
Relevant XKCD (the current one!) <http://xkcd.com/1215/>

------
aviv
I don't understand why they had to name their product "Soylent". It doesn't
even contain soy. Many people avoid soy products and/or have negative
associations with it (GMO, Monsanto, phytoestrogens, allergy).

Why would you alienate potential customers with a product name that beings
with "Soy"?

------
frozenport
This is poorly motivated:

1\. I can make a Hot Pocket in about 3 minutes. While the microwave is running
I can browse my email on my cellphone etc...

2\. Some instant food is unhealthy, perhaps healthy instant food is market for
disruption?

3\. Are we living in a society where people can't stop for 3 minutes to grab a
bite to eat!?

~~~
Afforess
1\. If I eat a Hot Pocket every day I will shorten my lifespan considerably.

2\. Healthy instant food tastes bland or like garbage.

3\. Yes. I don't like it, but most of us don't have choices.

~~~
frozenport
You can't wait 3 minutes for the microwave!? Even if you can overlap
microwaving with doing other things like reading HN on the ipod.(common
threading paradigm). You don't have a choice for 3 minutes!

------
gnoway
Aside from the possible health issues, I'm kind of disappointed with the
price. It's pretty expensive!

~~~
gph
That's how I felt. I wonder how much it costs to produce per "meal" for them.
Because they are charging ~3.10 per "meal" at the weekly rate. Maybe there
will be a better price after they officially launch. But it kind of feels like
they are taking a heavy profit at that rate. Perhaps making a quick buck
upfront in case this doesn't pan out in the long run?

Either way that and the snake-oil type sales pitch has really turned me off.
Through all the hoopla this generated on HN I mostly sat on the fence. Now I
feel distinctly like I don't trust them. But they've got backers, so we'll see
the results eventually.

------
milesf
I apologize for behaving badly and deleting most of my posts. I've cooled off
now, but am still very concerned for people being taken in by this.

This gif pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter:
<http://i.imgur.com/twkp3So.gif>

------
wldlyinaccurate
If Soylent actually takes off and becomes popular (I really hope it doesn't
btw. See my other comment for why), I wouldn't be surprised if some of the big
food companies come down on them really hard. I mean, just imagine what this
product would do to the food industry.

------
juskrey
Guys, do not worry. When they will raise enough money, they will fund 10 or
even 100 appropriate researches that will prove the credibility, safety and
superiority of this product to natural food. And everything will be ok. They
have been doing that for ages.

------
jbarham
Startup idea: Soylent Restaurant.

Only one item on the menu. No need for a kitchen or trained chefs. I'll be
rich!

------
hcarvalhoalves
I'm surprised this is even legal.

~~~
ceejayoz
Who says it is?

------
seivan
LCHF. <http://www.kostdoktorn.se> or <http://www.dietdoctor.com>

Eat till you are full. Normalise your weight.

------
Neepy
Does anybody know about international exporting restrictions for goods such as
this? My freight forwarder restricts food and beverage, but not sure if it's
technically classified as such?

------
djt
\- I don't care how much money these guys make out of this

\- I don't care what they do to their own bodies

\- I do care that they don't have any rigorous testing done before offering
this to the public without disclaimers.

~~~
cookingrobot
We're smart - the disclaimers aren't necessary. If we weren't smart, they
wouldn't help anyway.

I agree they've gotten carried away in their claims and are focusing the pitch
on some silly stuff.. for ex I don't think they're going to solve world
hunger. But these are criticisms of this particular pitch, and don't change at
all the actual product they're pushing: a best effort implementation of
medical science's actual nutrition guidelines + some nootropics.

------
Tenoke
TL;DR The guy's marketing is questionable, he makes misleading claims, hasn't
done proper testing but the product or a spin-off still has the potential to
be useful to many people.

------
ratherbefuddled
I'm amazed the key question hasn't been asked or answered yet:

Does it taste good?

~~~
Afforess
Yes: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTkuvppi334>

------
mongol
Is Soylent better for me than carrot juice, oatmeal and eggs? Now I just chose
three random foodstuffs, but at least I know what they are and what they
contain.

~~~
jimmar
Part of the appeal of Soylent is that you don't have to juice the carrots,
cook the oatmeal, or scramble the eggs.

------
georgebonnr
Ok, so just to be clear... this is real? And not an elaborate Charlton Heston
joke? Well color me surprised that... they used the name Soylent.

------
Fuzzwah
www.soylent.me doesn't work.

<http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/www.soylent.me>

~~~
johncoogan
Sorry about that. DNS record pointing to <http://campaign.soylent.me> is
caching. Should be live now.

------
qwerta
Hilarious. After 3 years and 2M$ spend they will reinvent the bread. Now we
only need similar startup to reinvent the water and maybe air :-)

------
anuraj
Has it been vetted by FDA? What is the long term effect of having a supplement
instead of regular food? Where is the controlled trial data?

------
obibring
Assuming this product is made from Soy (ingredients aren't listed), I would
caution any male from inducing it in large quantities.

~~~
fowkswe
The name has nothing to do with Soy, its a reference to a movie titled Soylent
Green (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green>)

------
mecha
What, it's only at version 0.6!? I'll usually wait until my food at least
matures to version 1.0.

------
adnam
'Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.'

If only this genius and effort behind 'soylent' were put to good use.

------
jstalin
Is it just me, or can you barely hear the guys on the video? They need a
microphone.

------
mousefad
"I ran 3.14 miles non-stop. This is an irrational improvement."

[checks date]. Late for April Fools.

------
bksenior
The founder needs a public speaking class. He talks like Dexter.

------
legierski
It's a real bummer that they don't send it anywhere outside US

~~~
DanBC
Why?

Liquid feeds are already available, and are made by regulated suppliers to a
high quality.

------
mindstab
Why was this flagged? 123pts at 2 hours should not place 39th?

------
iagomr
You guys are f* crazy. This has a place in the world because many people don't
know how to eat or don't even know what is good food. Free piece of advice:
Move to a southern country and spend less money in health treatments

------
jchook
1:07 "no waste" -- did he just say he doesn't poop anymore?

------
benjah
guys guys guys. . .

"It's made of people."

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sp-VFBbjpE>

This is marketing genius

------
superkamiguru
I had a feeling this wouldn't hit Kickstarter.

~~~
jimmar
They tried to get on Kickstarter. Kickstarter didn't want them because Soylent
is not a "creative" product.

------
chm
Ignorant crooks wanting to make a quick buck.

------
talmir
When will the green version come out?

------
flippyhead
The audio on their video is sooo bad!

------
mrleinad
Is crowdhoster trustworthy?

------
ericcumbee
is it people?

~~~
mattip
My thought exactly the choice of name is suspicious, and lack of ingredients
even more so. Is this all a joke?

------
songzme
does soylent expire?

------
zeroexzeroone
Most people have already screwed themselves with the traditional "American"
diet. I can see why this would be enticing. I, for one, prefer raw food -
vegetables and animals I can hunt myself (when I can). I wouldn't call it
Paleo - I would call it NORMAL EATING. I also run every day and do some
moderate lifting every other day with yoga every night. I feel great,
actually, and don't need something that looks like raw cocaine to put in my
body. I don't trust food bought from the internet, no matter how it looks or
what the reviews are. Farmer's markets are where its at - buy local and buy
raw, everything else is a waste of time.

------
cmccabe
Ugh, every discussion about soylent follows the same pattern.

person #1: But he hasn't proven it's safe!

person #2: But you haven't proven that it isn't!

person #1: But he doesn't have a PhD or any qualifications in food science!

person #2: But you don't either! And anyway the real experts admit they don't
know what they're doing anyway. The fake experts are busy pushing colon
cleanse products and miracle diets.

person #1: But he's playing with people's lives! Think of the children!

person #2: But so are the guys who invented the Doritos taco shell, the
twinkie, and the super-sized french fries. Why the double standard?

How about injecting some reality into this debate and admitting that _nobody_
is going to actually eat nothing but soylent every day. OK, maybe possibly the
original inventor will stick to it for a while, but I can't imagine anyone
else possibly doing this. Most Americans can barely make it between meals
without grabbing a snack. Do you really think someone is going to eat nothing
but green snot for a year? All these arguments are irrelevant, really.

------
notdrunkatall
Good god, $184k as of this writing. Are people retarded?

