
Ask HN: MIT, Harvard, or Stanford? - luckyyy
In a similar vein to asselinpaul&#x27;s post, I would love some feedback on deciding between MIT, Harvard, and Stanford for undergrad. I was fortunate enough to be accepted to all three, so now I&#x27;m in that tough (but amazing) situation where I have to choose one.<p>My background is in programming and mechanical engineering, but I think big and want to do more than just become an engineer at a company. I look up to people like Elon Musk, but I also realize that shaping my life after another&#x27;s would be foolish.<p>MIT<p>+ Great engineering<p>+ Rigorous courses and student body<p>- Maybe not well-rounded enough for my long-term goals<p>Harvard<p>+ Amazing liberal arts (I&#x27;m all for being well-rounded)<p>+ Would teach me how to work with people<p>- Not known for engineering<p>Stanford<p>+ Great at engineering and liberal arts<p>+ Amazing network in the heart of Silicon Valley<p>- I live in the area and go to a private school nearby (I kind of feel like I need to explore the rest of the world)<p>I know I can&#x27;t go wrong here, but I&#x27;d still love to hear your thoughts. I&#x27;m going to be visiting MIT and Harvard for the first time, so I&#x27;ll make my final decision after that.
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noname123
If I had to do it all over again. I'd pick a place where there's a good state
school with attractive girls and good pick-up basketball/soccer games and a
good academic school with relatively open campus.

I'd then find a PT job doing programming and go to lectures at good academic
school and then on weekends and in afternoon go to state school for parties
and sports for well rounded education in theoretical CS, professional
programming and personal liberal arts (not talking about the Hegelian
dialectics, but how to hold you liquor, how talk to girls, how to drive and
finish at the hoop, and budgeting and saving on your personal retirement
plan/nest egg early).

But since youth is wasted on the young, I say Stanford. Since the youth craves
some kind of redemption of respect but nowadays it seems like old East Coast
prestige is out of style, there's still plenty of prestige at Stanford but you
also get to play the 'SV rebel card' by going to Stanford, so you'll feel very
secure and not have any "buyer's remorse".

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azinman2
My background: undergrad at UCSD, phd at MIT. Also taken courses at community
college, san francisco state, private SF-based k-8, public high school (in
marin county). I feel like I've sampled a wide range of US-types of education.

I'd consider if you have any idea whatsoever if you want to go to grad school
or not. You'd be a fool to think you'd know now, but if you can project out a
bit it helps.

If you want to go to grad school, that will end up mattering more because it's
where you'll specialize. Undergrad is more for opening up your mind and
creating early-stage networks. You'll get amazing networks at all 3 of those
and ultimately can't fail. But the cultures are very different at each place,
and I say that knowing 2/3 of those cultures very well.

Go to Harvard if you want to be a non-technical CEO. It won't be super
rigorous (redonk grade inflation) but the surrounding egos will elevate yours
and give you the confidence to do whatever you want (justified or not). That's
something I saw in the transition from UCSD to MIT -- your peers will push
you. There's also lots of good people running around, and your network will be
super strong.

Go to Stanford if you want to be a technical CEO. You should probably leave
the bay area for a bit, but you can also do that after college. It's not like
Cambridge, MA is that crazy different in the same way that living outside the
US would be, so don't think that level of geographic movement is so
significant from years 18-22. Go study abroad your junior year for that (which
I _highly_ recommend).

Go to MIT if you're more interested in being technical than CEO, but it's
still possible. MIT culture values raw technical talent more than the other
three (IMHO), and is very 'purist' in that respect. But people will be the
most autistic compared to the other two, so if you want to learn to be a
"normal" person go elsewhere. That said I loved MIT, and it was an amazing
place to do a phd. It's full of super super smart people, and then normal
smart people. Not many actually dumb people (all 3 will have that in different
proportions), just many non-creative people.

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spirographer
I was in the Boston suburbs (Newton) for 6 years, during which my dad went to
MIT for a graduate degree, and I myself went to Stanford for a PhD in CS. When
I was an undergrad I sat in on a couple classes at Harvard. The caliber of
student you will meet is roughly equal.

I think your undergraduate years are a great time to explore, so I would
highly recommend leaving your comfort zone, whatever that might be. Moving
away from the Bay Area is a great way to spread your wings. Taking several
courses in a field that is different/challenging and potentially a minor field
of study is another way to do that.

Use that experience as a lens to focus yourself on a graduate
degree/entrepreneurial career. If you leave the Bay Area, and you want to do
startups, definitely come back to Stanford for a master's degree, or even a
business degree, and then do it. There is really no better place in the world
for entrepreneurship.

Don't get fooled into thinking that your undergrad years have to be hyper
focused in order to succeed. As a matter of fact, it's the best time to
broaden your interests, and get to know understand the people who have the
same interests as you. The best entrepreneurs build amazing social skills to
complement whatever talents they have. They almost never start companies
alone, and they have usually spent years working with friends/team. The most
novel startups also usually combine ideas from multiple fields. Your
undergraduate years are a great time to put those pieces together.

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dadiomov
I went to Stanford for undergrad and am in business school at Harvard now. I'm
incredibly grateful for both opportunities. But here's the thing: Stanford
teaches you to love and to care and to have passion. Harvard teaches you to
think and to act and to have impact. You should totally learn to do both, and
you have time to do that - but if you pick one, go to Stanford.

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cww
I attended Carnegie Mellon and have worked with professors and given talks at
MIT and Harvard. I don't know a lot about Stanford, except that I have never
met anyone I actually liked who graduated from there (the same goes for
Cornell, interestingly).

I'm not really the encouraging type, so I'll just try to address the negative
points you put down for MIT and Harvard.

MIT: The curriculum at MIT absolutely is well-rounded. Did you know they have
one of the best philosophy departments in the world? Also, check out the MIT
Media Lab: they bring technology and creativity together in ways that no other
organization can. The Media Lab's fellows range from engineers to comedians,
and their director didn't even get a degree, but it's still one of the coolest
places in the world to explore the confluence of ideas and application. MIT is
also a leader in biology, chemistry, and medicine, so if you think you might
want to apply your engineering education to one of those fields, MIT will
definitely be a good place to park yourself for a few years.

Harvard: While you may hear more about Harvard Law and Harvard Medical School
than their EECS department, that doesn't mean they don't have a top-flight
program. In fact, when I was looking at grad schools long ago (for EE/applied
physics), Harvard was easily one of my top choices because of the sheer number
of professors there who have research interests in related fields. At the
time, my interests were at the intersection of robotics and medicine, and
there were no fewer than three professors there who would have been an
excellent fit for Ph.D. studies in that arena (and, three is a pretty big
number when it comes to picking the perfect Ph.D. advisor).

I also think staying in one place for too long can inhibit a person's drive to
be creative. If I were you, I'd head to MIT or Harvard - they're both
excellent schools, you'll get a fantastic education either way, and Boston is
a really fun city. You'll also be a 6-hour flight away from western Europe...
if you have a long weekend and some spare cash sitting around (hopefully from
one of the many excellent Boston-area tech internships), London is just a bad
night's sleep away.

One last thing, and I'm not 100% certain about this, but I've heard MIT and
Harvard students can attend certain classes at a variety of schools in the
area. So if you think your curriculum is lacking in art, you could, for
example, take an illustration class at Mass Art. It works the other way
around, too: my sister attended Mass Art and took a history class at Harvard
one semester.

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frob
I went to MIT for undergrad. When I was a senior in high school, I had the
same hold up you did: "Will MIT neglect my humanities?" Short answer: no.

MIT has a surprisingly strong humanities and arts department. All students are
also required to take a wide range of different humanities (though no single
class is required).

I found the student body itself to be the best bulwark against intellectual
and creative stagnation. The students there are self-motivated enough that
they create culture and stimulate each other.

Finally, students at this place put vehicles on top of buildings and do ninja
art installations. None of your other choices can claim that. How well-rounded
can they really be?

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dm2
I'd vote for MIT because your peers will have more of a engineering /
programming mindset.

Do you want to do business and build startups or be in a workshop building
cool toys?

If you want to build businesses then Stanford would be a great place to go.

Stay focused! Good luck!

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rorykirchner
MIT or Stanford. If you want to be well rounded, read books.

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mmxiii
Having gone through a similar process, and coming out on the other end, my
impression is that it really doesn't matter which school you go to.

All that matters is how you spend your time. If you are serious about
entrepreneurship, and serious about going off the beaten path (this takes some
introspection, with data that may take some time to collect), then the time
you spend in school is really just a minor asset.

You need to ask the question - who am I and what kind of role can/do I want to
play in creating a business. And your time should be oriented to that, as
opposed to spending an excessive time acing classes.

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sokoloff
MIT '93 Mech E here (only ever worked as programmer, manager, or executive
though). I agree with most of what's written, though I never found the winters
to be unbearable (and still live in Cambridge now-love it here). If the
weather is what matters to you, pick Stanford (duh), but that's an absurd way
to pick a school, IMO.

MIT has great breadth available; it's all a matter of what YOU want to make
it. If you want to graduate very unidimensional (deep excellence in
engineering, skate by in all others), you can. If you want to be well-rounded,
you can be, though not perhaps to the same extent of social network as
Harvard. I really enjoyed the living groups situation at MIT (I was in a
fraternity in Boston) and your living group choice makes a lot of difference
in your experience here, at least IME.

I took a few humanities classes at Wellesley College. It was kind of a pain in
the ass, and not worth it for the academic angle, but there were other factors
involved...

Congrats on your situation. I'd repeat at MIT, I'd never have considered
Harvard, and I was wait-listed at Stanford, eventually admitted, but I'd had
my heart set on MIT, so when I got in there, it was an easy call and I
couldn't be happier about my choice.

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russell
All three schools will give you a top flight engineering education. As a
Harvard grad you will have world wide creds and wont be pegged as pure tech
nerd. I am a Harvard grad, albeit nearly half a century ago and have resided
in Silicon Valley for 45 years. If I had to do it all over again, I would
probably go to Stanford. Better weather and prettier girls. In January walking
around campus in Cambridge, you're not even sure what species they are.

------
gaze
Doesn't actually matter. Go where you like the people.

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chaki
One thing that I think it's a bit under-rated is the amazing openness between
harvard and mit, despite on surface they often act like rivals (i attended
grad schools at both).

For example, the cross-registration is a huge benefit. and many classes on
both campuses you can see students from the other school. MIT $100K startup
teams long have Harvard students involved. Now, at Harvard i-Lab I already see
many resident teams having MIT co-founders (am doing EIR there).

In other words, i see it as getting two for "price of one" in some way... : >

Nothing bad to say about Stanford -- its beautiful campus is built for
studying/thinking. i love its d.school and am a huge fan (did a short course
only). but when Harvard and MIT has its own d.school, then...

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grinich
First of all, congrats! :) Those are all incredible schools, and you
(honestly) won't regret going to any of them.

I recently graduated from MIT (undergrad, CS), have lots of friends who went
to Harvard, and have family who went to Stanford (and I work in SF).

It's important to realize that college won't define your career. It's the
first step where you'll learn fundamentals and deep-dive into real math,
science, and literature. Just as important are the ways you spend your
summers, the books you read, and the friends you make.

Also, there's no "perfect" fit of a school. I was passionate about music, and
always wished MIT had a stronger arts department. But you should be open to
the unexpected. I joined the rowing team on a whim, and became a Division I
athlete-- something I would have never expected or planned.

With that said, here's what I've gathered:

MIT is hands-down the best engineering school in the entire world. In 2 years
you learn more than most people do after a masters. Downside is that it's not
very well-rounded, but that's kind of the point. As a friend's father once
said, "You don't go to a candy shop to buy broccoli." People routinely make
jokes about calculus and wear shirts that say "Nerd Pride." Places like the
Media Lab are an amazing fusion of art/science/design/engineering, and MIT is
a respected hub for world leaders. (I met the Dali Lama and Bill Gates in the
same year.) MIT was the birthplace of most of the tech we use today. People
like Richard Feynman went to MIT. At MIT I learned how to pick locks, spin
fire, write LISP, and laser-cut my Christmas gifts.

Harvard will teach you to think about how the world works and how to organize
people. Many people don't realize that Zuck was actually studying psychology
at Harvard, and Facebook was predicated on how people think and interact.
There's lots of "old money" at Harvard, and it's not the same kind of
meritocracy as MIT. Some kids are olympians and others the sons/daughters of
politicians. Al Gore and Tommy Lee Jones lived across the hall from each other
at Harvard. Harvard grads often go into finance, international relations, law,
doctoral science studies, etc. Harvard has lots of grade inflation.

Stanford is a mix of the two, with incredible science+engineering, but also
sports and liberal arts. You'll find the cliche fratboy bro, but then learned
he aced his SATs. Palo Alto is beautiful and sunny, and the vibe is locked
with the startup world. Professors regularly consult/advise companies, or
leave to start their own. Apple/Google are involved on campus, and there's a
true spirit of innovation amongst the students. (nb. distinct from invention.)
In particular, graduates of the Symbolic Systems program often become
Associate Product Managers at Google and/or found their own companies.
(Snapchat/Instagram/etc.) They aren't as nerdy as MIT, but they're still
wicked smart.

There's no "path" toward entrepreneurship, but there are many successful
founders that started with a hardcore engineering background. (Elon Musk was
actually planning to pursue a PhD in physics at Stanford before dropping out
to start Zip2.) Rigorously learning first principles in mathematics,
chemistry, physics, and programming is key to later taking-on large projects,
like building rockets.

I would just say matriculate wherever has the people you want to spend 4 years
around. It's your peers which push you and teach you the most, and later will
become your cofounders or employees if you do a startup. Even if the school
isn't perfect, you'll find your people and your own way.

(As an aside, I actually gave at talk at MIT last fall about how I got into
startups and rounded-out my education. Just more datapoints for how I
navigated.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJcCwUOsY_k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJcCwUOsY_k)
)

Just make sure to major in science/engineering and work your ass off. :) Feel
free to ping me if you have specific questions. I'm mg@mit.edu.

~~~
grinich
There was a reply that just got deleted. Here's an excerpt that was relevant.

 _If your interests change over the course of your first couple years in
school, Harvard has a very solid program in basically any subject you can
think of, and changing your field of concentration is very easy. If you decide
what you really love is ancient middle-eastern history, or Russian literature,
or whatever, MIT will be less convenient._

To also elaborate on the now-deleted comment...

I'm probably a bit too rough on Harvard's math/science departments. They are
much more theoretical, meaning the graduates will work in labs or become
professors rather than go into engineering. The commenter cited Math 55, which
is indeed an incredible class. Many folks at MIT end up doubling math/CS or
math/physics, so the pure math group is smaller there.

The "work your ass off" bit just means to not get soft and coast. When the
carrot in front disappears, lots of people are lost. You need to learn to
develop your own carrot and push yourself.

Oh, and I stand corrected. Al Gore and Tommy Lee Jones were only across the
hall as freshmen. They were roommates after that. :)

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studentt
Heyy congrats on getting into all three schools!

I'm a CS concentrator here at Harvard and could give you some real advice when
you come to visit; both the good and bad about coming here. Lucianoarango-at-
college-dot-harvard-dot-edu

~~~
mitochondrion
Next year, I'm going to be a freshman to Podunk University, Nowhere. I'm not
very happy with my situation, but I know that it's one of my own making.

What sort of things - besides an academic excellence I didn't display in high
school - should I do to break through into an upper-level school?

Thanks very much.

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zxexz
MIT definitely has the most penetration of the 'hacker' culture. If it came
down to MIT vs Harvard, I would personally choose MIT. Out of all three, MIT
tends to be less elitist, from my personal experience.

~~~
pseut
"Less elitist" may not appeal to someone who announces on HN that he or she
got into these three colleges. Harvard it is!

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apaprocki
It's a very difficult choice. I interview students at both Stanford and MIT
and have spent time on both campuses. They _feel_ very different to me
personally. I feel that you will gain more just from leaving your comfort zone
and moving to a new place than simply picking based upon what the school has
to offer. If you wind up picking Boston, make the most of it, say hi to me
when I'm on campus, and make sure you take a bus/train/plane and spend some
time in NYC while on the East coast :) (edit: Of course you can still say hi
at Stanford, too!)

~~~
mediumtrouble
I totally agree about picking up and trying to live in a new place.

But all three of these schools do a pretty good job of letting students live
in a bubble of sorts. The whole notion of leaving a comfort zone when going to
one of them is different than say, moving to Nairobi.

~~~
apaprocki
Yeah, I've talked to people near Stanford, though, that had never even been to
a city yet alone live in one. I'm just saying "baby steps". There is always
time to take a semester abroad in Nairobi or go build houses in South Africa
like one of my co-workers :)

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ameister14
Go wherever you find the best peer group. People you think are challenging and
interesting and professors you get excited by.

For me it'd be between MIT and Harvard, particularly if I went to high school
in California. You'll have friends that go to Stanford and if you really want
the network more than anything get an MS there.

Just as an aside: Elon Musk went to Penn. You don't have to go to the school
most widely known for what you want to do; any of these three will be
fantastic.

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waterlesscloud
I didn't go to any of these schools, but I still have an opinion. :-)

I think you should go to one of the Boston schools. Get out of the area where
you grew up. All three of these schools are fine and academically, socially,
and prestige-wise they all will serve your needs.

But your instinct to live somewhere else for a while is a good one, and
distance from your family is helpful as well. Re-forging yourself is useful at
that age (and several other ages down the road).

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chris11
Are there any differences in the amount of loans you will need? I would take
that into consideration if the schools are offering a wide range of estimated
costs.

I can't personally say much about those three schools though. I might prefer
to go to college out of state, just to live in more of the country. But I'm
sure all three schools have good study abroad programs if you want to travel.

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epenn
If you go to MIT you can cross-register for courses at Harvard as well. That
would get you out of the area where you grew up, give you a great engineering
degree, and allow you to better round out your liberal arts. I don't know how
well that would fit into your specific degree requirements, but it might be
something worth exploring while you're making your decision.

~~~
grinich
Just to note, almost nobody does this in practice. It's inconvenient and
there's more than enough to take at MIT. Friends I had who cross-enrolled only
did it for special subjects, like advanced Arabic or Russian.

~~~
azinman2
They're better at humanities if that's a strong interest. But I agree
otherwise :)

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swalkergibson
Go wherever you get the most amount of free money. In fact, your position is
so advantageous that it might be worthwhile to see if you can leverage them
against one another to get some perks. I have no clue whether or not this kind
of negotiation would work, given how competitive each of these schools is, but
it might be worth a shot.

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shivamtak
Choosing a school doesn't make a difference. although If you're looking for a
home away from home, I'd suggest Harvard. The place will give you everything
you'd want in your life. It will give you new friends, new dreams, and the
finest* cuisine. haha (past experiences)

*fake westernized cuisine

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girmad
Like others said, you can't go wrong.

Visit all three, talk to students and faculty, and decide with your gut.

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franklinho
If you're really interested in entrepreneurial pursuits, Stanford is the way
to go. They've got better infrastructure and guidance around it than anyone
else.

Also, Boston is horrible weatherwise. You'll really regret it your first
winter out there.

~~~
azinman2
Boston weather isn't a reason to not go to MIT or Harvard.

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nyassin
I got into all three as well, 4 years ago. I chose Harvard. I would choose
Harvard again.

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dlokshin
Went to Harvard, had a bunch of friends and interacted plenty with people at
MIT and would be happy to jump on the phone with you and give you a more in
depth view of my experience. Email is in my HN profile.

~~~
Denzel
Your email doesn't show up in your profile unless you add it to the about
section. :)

~~~
dlokshin
:0! Thanks. Added.

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luckyyy
Thank you everyone for the thoughtful responses! I know this may have come off
as pretentious or brash, but I truly appreciate the input and will consider it
when I'm visiting the schools.

Thanks again!

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azth
Not really adding to the discussion here. Out of curiosity, do you already
have a mech engineering degree given you mention it in your background?

That being said, congratulations on the admissions! :)

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rdl
They are all fine, but if I wanted to do startups, I'd probably go for
Stanford due to location and networking. (I am a MIT dropout and know lots of
people from all 3).

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quietthrow
MIT and Stanford will be more helpful if you are planning to be engineer in
the long run. And by long run I don't mean just employment, I am talking more
along the terms of your identity. Having said that I don't think you could go
wrong with either one. But the question to ask given your situation is do you
think your school is going to play a very large part in what you achieve. It
might play a small part but your actions are going to determine most of the
outcomes. How much do you think Elon Musk is what he is for which schools he
went to? I contend there might be a very small part. Congratulations and good
luck.

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rajacombinator
The fact that you're even considering MIT means you should probably go there.
It's not in the same league.

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shankysingh
With no experience of any of three, All I can say congrats man. Damn! I am
little bit jealous in a good way :)

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zhemao
Well you chose a rather appropriate username. Congratulations on getting into
so many good schools!

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suyash
If I had to pick, I'd go with Stanford due to it's location in the middle of
SV.

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cjbarber
What's your email? Shoot me one. cjbarber@stanford.edu

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grandalf
I think that Harvard has (and will continue to have) the most cachet as a
degree. Unless you plan to drop out, Harvard is the clear choice.

~~~
chaki
don't forget dropouts at harvard have been doing pretty well : > (i.e., mark
and bill)

------
motoranne
Stanford!

------
FD3SA
Go to Harvard. If you're smart enough to get into all three, you're not going
to school for the knowledge. You can learn that on your own. You're going to
school to build a network, which is the most difficult and most important part
of any successful venture.

Having friends who are worth billions of dollars will come in handy much more
so than a slightly better calculus course.

There are millions of extremely brilliant people who end up nowhere. Their
wasted potential is not a result of their lack of knowledge or technical
ability, but their failure to establish a powerful personal network.

P.S. Elon Musk is a perfect example. He initially went to Queen's University
in Kingston, Ontario (I'll bet your future net worth you've never heard of
this place). Then, he transferred to UPenn because he realized he needed to
establish a network in the way only an Ivy League school can.

What did he study at Queen's and UPenn? Economics, and later finished a dual
degree in Physics. What did he do upon graduation? Dropped out of a Stanford
PhD program in material science, started two successive software companies, an
electric car company, and a rocket company.

Critical thinking is something you develop on your own through practice, and
can be applied to any sphere of understanding once your mind is accustomed to
it. Additionally, knowledge outside of basic fundamentals is irrelevant until
you select a domain to specialize in. Finally, this knowledge is freely
available on the internet (mostly from MIT, no less).

~~~
grinich
There's a big distinction between acquiring knowledge and learning how to
think.

MIT pushed me to my limits, and taught me how to systematically accomplish
what I previously thought were impossible tasks. All while maintaining a
principled sense of rigor and focus. A lot of people who are "smart" just ace
high school and never are truly challenged. Harvard has insane grade
inflation, because the students there are used to getting As. [1]

The world has enough billionaires, but not enough fearless engineers. I've
found it surprisingly easy to connect billionaires when you genuinely need
it-- not just because you got drunk with them in your 20s.

[1] [http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/12/3/grade-
inflation-...](http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/12/3/grade-inflation-
mode-a/)

~~~
FD3SA
I heartily agree regarding your point on rigor, but I'm increasingly of the
opinion that, because of MIT's excellent online offerings, legendary engineers
like Musk no longer need to be in MIT to experience the MIT rigor. They can do
the courses in the summers, and hangout with MIT students to build their teams
for their first few startups.

I vehemently disagree regarding grades. Grades are the stupidest measure of
engineering ability. Paper tests are meaningless except as a measure for the
most basic levels of competence in mathematics and physics. We are talking
about people who push the state of the art. These people are often very
annoyed by tests, since it is idiotic to use an extremely distant proxy (i.e.
a test) for an ability like like engineering when it's much simpler (and
infinitely more satisfying) to just practice engineering itself.

The only measure of an engineer's skill is his ability to built elegant
systems. This cannot be taught through a course. It must be learned through
iteration, and repetitive failure.

~~~
Patrick_Devine
I absolutely agree with you in regards to grades. They are completely
pointless; How does someone get an 'A' when they've missed over 10% of the
questions on an exam? We should demand absolutely mastery in every subject,
and thankfully we're starting to get the tools (in online courses) which allow
us to do that.

There is one point though which I think you're not giving enough; schools like
MIT and Standford are all about connections and networking. You go to an MIT
or a Stanford to have a pedigree, and it opens doors and opportunities which
wouldn't be there if you hadn't gone there.

------
crassus
If you want to be a Senator, go to Harvard. You'll be playing beer pong with
future big wigs.

Stanford and MIT are both great engineering schools. Stanford has a unique
startup culture and great weather. MIT kids seem to dive deeper into the
fundamentals, due to fewer distractions from class work.

