
Western fast food companies are aggressively expanding in Brazil - acalmon
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/09/16/health/brazil-obesity-nestle.html
======
shihching
> At one meeting, a representative from the food industry accused Anvisa of
> trying to subvert parental authority, saying mothers had the right to decide
> what to feed their children, recalled Vanessa Schottz, a nutrition advocate.

The same argument is used in the US to thwart limitations on sugary beverage
purchases and other junk food with SNAP -- these compose 10-20% of purchases,
50% of which goes to Wal-Mart, alongside 2-5x greater premature mortality from
cardiac arrest and diabetic related complications.

[http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2016.3...](http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2016.303608)

Incentivizing the poor to hock Nestle timed according to Brazilian food
assistance checks is clever. Reminds me of Herbalife, and Betting on Zero --
Hispanic populations, eager to succeed in entrepreneurship, here too are
victims of pyramid schemes preying on ill health.

~~~
icelancer
>>The same argument is used in the US to thwart limitations on sugary beverage
purchases and other junk food with SNAP

Those living under the poverty line don't like being hit with condescending
statements coming from those who are supposedly trying to help them, either.
Conservatives/Republicans at least call the poor lazy. Liberals/Democrats who
want to restrict sugar/luxury items from EBT/SNAP often make ridiculous
statements about "knowing better for them," which you can imagine plays real
well in their population.

I've collected EBT with a family and been under the poverty line. I know very
well how people think and feel about those above them. Sometimes the single
father or mother of two kids who struggles with daycare and a tough job 10
hours a day with 2 hours of commute time would like to buy their kids some ice
cream and "bad" food to escape from the terrible life they have, rather than
eat some broccoli or toasted kale. Let's have some sympathy.

~~~
yodsanklai
> Those living under the poverty line don't like being hit with condescending
> statements coming from those who are supposedly trying to help them, either.

So what? leave corporations feed them with junk food and ruin their health?

When I was a kid, we drank Coke at every meal and I'm literally paying for it
as an adult - and it certainly didn't make me an happier kid. I wish our
government had done something to avoid the damage (whether through taxation or
information).

> Sometimes the single father or mother of two kids who struggles with daycare
> and a tough job 10 hours a day with 2 hours of commute time would like to
> buy their kids some ice cream and "bad" food to escape from the terrible
> life they have, rather than eat some broccoli or toasted kale.

There is a middle ground between ice cream and broccoli. And believe it or
not, eating healthy food would make their life _much_ better, regardless their
commute time.

~~~
Kalium
> So what? leave corporations feed them with junk food and ruin their health?

One possible option is to offer people information and resources to guide them
towards what we might prefer. A lot of farmer's markets and groceries in my
area offer a 50% discount on produce for customers paying via EBT or SNAP, for
example.

------
crazygringo
As an American who lived in Brazil for 8 years, honestly I'm not sure this is
any worse than traditional food.

A typical Brazilian lunch is a piece of meat with beans, sides of rice, french
fries, and fried flour (farofa) -- that's right, 3 carbs of empty calories (2
fried) and no real vegetables -- all washed down with mostly-added-sugar
"fruit juice concentrate" (cashew apple is really common). Bar snacks are 100%
deep-fried, or "pizza" with copious amounts of sugary ketchup (don't ask).
Desserts are the sweetest things your tongue has ever touched -- brigadeiros,
pudim, essentially all just super-sweet condensed milk.

It's not like the traditional Brazilian diet is full of fresh veggies or
nutritional variety at all. I mean, I thought us Americans loved our french
fries... but the Brazilians have got us beat!

~~~
dasil003
As a Brazilian-American who spent many years in both countries from the 1980s
until today, you're misrepresenting things a bit.

First of all, the juice concentrates are a newish thing, 20 years ago it was
still common to make fruit juice from scratch at home every day. Also, farofa
is fried (more like sauteed, it doesn't need that much oil) _yucca_ flour,
which is a world away from refined white flour. Growing up, lunch was a large
salad along with rice, beans, a cooked vegetable and some kind of meat or
fish.

I fully admit that Brazil really took to fast food and it's just as terrible
as it is anywhere, but your analysis of "traditional" Brazilian food is quite
myopic and probably influenced by your own white-collar professional
tendencies towards convenience foods.

~~~
candiodari
Fruit juice is pretty bad on the calories regardless of added sugar or not. I
mean, the sugar doesn't help, and has other bad effects (teeth, most notably).

But the issue with fruit juice is just how much fruit you need to make it. One
glass of apple juice is 3-4 apples. An apple is 60-80 calories. That makes
that glass about 300 calories, which is ridiculous.

It's a bit less bad with orange juice, although like lemon juice it has other
problems (they're very acidic, at least as bad as coke).

So one glass of juice should be somewhere between 20-25% of your total meal
calorie intake. As in, if you drink (one glass) of juice, 2 loaves of bread is
now your limit. With water, you can do 3.

But the sugar. Well, the sugar takes the 250-300 calorie glass to 300-350. Not
good, but ... not going to make the difference. That's like taking a bit more
jam on the sandwich.

~~~
keldaris
Where have you seen a glass of apple juice with 300 kcal? In my (European)
experience it's barely a hundred or so. Is this some American version that
consists of vaguely apple-flavored sugar or something? I'm actually slightly
envious because I'm a tad underweight (and with a very low body fat
percentage) and find gaining weight difficult.

~~~
ryanwaggoner
Fresh squeezed orange juice is 110 calories per 8 oz serving. But most people
in America would drink a glass more like twice that size.

~~~
keldaris
I guess it's mostly just a difference in volume then. Google tells me 8 oz
translates to about 230 ml, that's pretty much the average glass of juice
around here.

~~~
brianwawok
People would complain if a resteraunt give them such a small glass. 12 oz /
350 ml is much more common drinking glass size here.

People going to McDonalds for soda get 32 ounce / 950 ml

Some crazy sizes here...

------
Animats
Japan seems to have fought this off. Japan has explicitly rejected "fat
acceptance" as public policy. Under the 2008 "Metabo Law", everyone between 40
and 75 is weighed and measured annually and sent to counseling if overweight.
Employers are involved and apply pressure to employees.

~~~
candiodari
> Employers are involved and apply pressure to employees.

That sounds like hell.

~~~
adventured
It is hell, for someone not used to it or someone over the fat line. Google
"Japan fat shaming" for some idea of how abusive they are toward fat people
culturally. They're not the only ones though, South Korea and China also have
weaker variations of aggressive cultural fat shaming.

~~~
binarray2000
I'm curious: How is "fat shaming" applied to sumo wrestlers? They are probably
big (no pun intended) stars in Japan.

~~~
adventured
As you would imagine with most nations and cultural extremes that benefit
entertainment or celebrity, it's an exception. Being obese for the purpose of
Sumo, is regarded as entirely different versus being obese because of poor
discipline / lifestyle reasons.

------
grecy
I saw McDonalds being built in dirt-street towns in Guatemala, I saw lines
three blocks long at KFC in South America, and I've seen many Porsches and
Ferrarris in the parking lots of American fast food joints in third world
countries.

I am utterly shocked they have not moved into Africa yet.

I've just driven tens of thousands of miles through 17 countries without a
single Mcdonalds. Between Morocco and South Africa, there were none [1]. I am
shocked they are not in at least Nigeria, Cameroon, Ivory Coast, Ghana, etc.

I wonder if that's the longest distance in the world that can be driven
without one. Or at least the most consecutive countries.

(checkout the map) [1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_McDonal...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_McDonald's_restaurants)

~~~
cdubzzz
There was a KFC in Accra back in 2011 or so when I was there, so they are
definitely in Ghana, at least.

~~~
wavefunction
KFC seems to be the easiest American fast-food to take global, given the lack
of cultural or religious prohibitions against consuming chicken. I've seen it
all over Asia at least.

------
ingenieros
I think it's also important to point out that it's not just "western fast
food" conglomerates doing all the damage. Frito Lay (Pepsi Co.) had its job
cut out for them by local junk food producers so they simply bought them out
and stuck their logo on the bag. Bimbo which is a Mexican giant in the
processed food industry has been doing exactly the same all across the Andean
region.

Another very important thing to keep in mind which this article fails to
mention is the influence of all the free trade agreements which were signed by
countries like Colombia and Perú in recent years. Now it's become more
affordable than ever to export "goods" from the U.S into these emerging
markets without paying any import duties. That is why you now find
supermarkets in emerging nations that bare a strikingly resemblance to their
american counterparts. A quick glance through the frozen food section will
reveal items that weren't even part of the local diet just a few years ago
such as pot pies and tater tots.

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ucaetano
I find the title of this link quite funny: Brazil is a western country, even
more "west" than Switzerland, where Nestle is from, and with very similar
culture to that of Western Europe and the US.

Not only that, but Nestle has been in Brazil for almost a century now.

------
hackerpolicy
Not to mention we brazilians have been bombarded with fast-food joints in the
past few years. My little hometown with no more than 90k habitants got its
first Subway. And last year the first Taco Bell in the country came to São
Paulo. This is the only one I would miss actually, as I've had enough from the
traditional fast-food places.

------
gcb0
they claim that a universal income (bolsa familia) is responsible for poor
people buying tons of sugary foods. in reality that universal income allows
poor people to not starve. why do they buy crap food? because that's what
middle class is also eating. why? because of recently unregulated and rampant
advertising.

------
valuearb
How do you hook people on better tasting food? You let them try it.

~~~
quadrangle
Indeed, just like drug pushers.

------
hellofunk
This makes me sad for Brazil.

I have heard, though cannot confirm myself, that Japan had one of the
healthiest societies in the world until fast food expanded there a couple
decades ago, causing many problems common in the States, like obesity and
diabetes and blood pressure issues, to significantly increase in frequency
there.

~~~
adventured
It's worth noting that Latin America has plenty of nations that have struggled
with obesity due to poor local diets even longer than the US has, including
Mexico, Chile, Belize, Brazil and El Salvador. The US obesity problem began in
the late 1980s.

------
gcb0
title is completely off. its not fast food (Mcdonalds, wendy, etc) but junk
food (nestle, kellogs, kraft, etc)

~~~
BoppreH
The article focuses on junk food, but it's both.

Until recently in medium-sized Brazilian cities, the only fast food chains an
American would recognize are McDonald's and Subway. This changed since the
last two years. In a short span of time I saw new franchises of KFC, Pizza
Hut, Domino's and Burger King.

~~~
gcb0
those companies are there for at least 10 years! at least! pizza hut over 15.
kfc over 10. bk over 7.

...but well, those companies increasing presence explain why the corrupt coup
government rushing to sell the country just passed laws removing low-wage
workers protection.

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Grue3
So, Brazil is not a Western country? I guess the entire Europe is The East
now. Also, why wouldn't they? It's a big market. Everyone loves fast food even
though you'll never see anyone admit it.

~~~
distances
I'm sure you know this, but "Western country" doesn't strictly refer to a
geographical location.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world)

------
sagivo
In Israel fast food costs more than normal food. Vegetables are relatively
cheep to the US ($3 for avocado??) And in general "fast" food is not a value
people appreciate over "healthy". One of the ways to fight obesity is by
taxation and lowering the costs of healthy food. When salad will cost less
than a burger (and there's no economic reason it shouldn't) people will choose
it.

~~~
r00fus
Not sure where you're seeing the $3 avocados. Even in SV, it's like $1 per
unless things have changed in the last several weeks.

~~~
sagivo
NYC, and untill recently every whole foods store

~~~
r00fus
[https://www.hassavocadoboard.com/retail/volume-and-price-
dat...](https://www.hassavocadoboard.com/retail/volume-and-price-data)

This aligns with my recent shopping experience.

~~~
sagivo
I think you're missing the point of vegetables being expensive in the US. If
you think these prices are normal than allow me to disagree.

[https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/28/business/amazon-whole-
foo...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/28/business/amazon-whole-foods-
cheaper-prices.html)

[https://imgur.com/a/6yozr](https://imgur.com/a/6yozr)

~~~
brianwawok
Avacados happen to be one of the more expensive vegetables.. and the price is
highly seasonal. You should see them for $0.8 to $1.2 "in season" and $1.5 to
$2.5 "out of season". Perhaps an additional tax if you live in a big city.

if you want to talk about vegetable affordability, lets start with lettuce,
carrots, and broccoli.

------
nextstep
Change the title to reflect the focus on fast food (use The NY Times
headline).

------
QAPereo
I don't doubt that this is all true, but he diet pre-Nestle was hardly superb,
Brigadeiro, flan, lots of meat, croquettes, tons of bread... you could do
plenty of harm with those traditional foods. What the were not however, was
heavily and aggressively marketed, ultra-cheap, and essentially never spoil.

~~~
mixmastamyk
The traditional meal of beans, rice, meat and veggies, is much better than a
lot of countries.

Even the "junk" foods you mention are still considerably better than empty
corporate garbage like cheetos and soda pop.

~~~
QAPereo
I think you'd be surprised on the snack front, but soda is addictive poison,
that's true enough. The issue with the traditional diet is that it only worked
when food was somewhat scarce. Even without the influx of 1st World crap
accelerating the obesity/diabetes issue, those problems would remain.

I'm not denying the role of Coke, Nestle, McDonalds, etc in amplifying an
existing problem into a full blown catastrophe however.

