

Mobile version of IE10 won’t run Flash by default - Rabidgremlin
http://blog.rabidgremlin.com/2012/10/11/did-microsoft-just-kill-flash-ie10-wont-run-flash-unless-your-site-is-on-a-microsoft-whitelist/
Cached link since my poor server is dead: http://blog.rabidgremlin.com.nyud.net/2012/10/11/did-microsoft-just-kill-flash-ie10-wont-run-flash-unless-your-site-is-on-a-microsoft-whitelist/
======
bunderbunder
Cue stanard Betteridge's Law remark.

The whitelisting only applies to the "mobile" version of their browser. To
that end, Microsoft's policy is markedly more Flash-friendly than what's
happening on other Mobile platforms. After all, at least some Flash content
will be permitted. By contrast, iOS and (as of recently) Android are
effectively Flash-free platforms.

I think the fact that there's no restriction on desktop, combined with their
published requirements for how to get whitelisted for mobile, make it pretty
clear that this isn't really meant to be an attack on Flash. It's more an
attempt to deal with the large number of websites whose Flash content is
fundamentally incompatible with touchscreens because it assumes the presence
of a mouse. Blocking Flash on those sites hopefully results in a better user
experience because the site is theoretically degrading to a Flash-free version
instead.

Far from being a Flash-killing move, in hindsight the other mobile platforms
adopting a similar policy might have been the one thing that could have saved
Flash for them.

~~~
bradleyland
Maybe you meant this by putting quotes around the word mobile, but this
applies to IE10 on desktops as well; when running IE10 in Metro... I mean
Windows 8 UI. In the official documentation [1] they refer to it as "Windows
UI". I think it's a bit misleading to claim it only applies to "mobile" [sic].

1 - [http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/ie/jj193557(v=vs.85)...](http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/ie/jj193557\(v=vs.85\).aspx)

~~~
bunderbunder
Right. IE 10 Metro being the mobile _version of their browser_.

It's true that it runs on desktops. But it's also true that it's primarily
intended as the version of the browser that's used on touchscreen devices.

~~~
bradleyland
Eh, I hate to split hairs here, but I feel like the author of this blog post
is being unfairly taken to task for a misleading headline. I disagree with the
characterization of the WinUI version of IE being the "mobile version of their
browser". It's the only version available on mobile, but WinUI is the default
UI when you boot Windows 8, isn't it? That's not rhetorical. I haven't used
Windows 8 much, but I did install the beta in a VM, and it booted to Metro
(...er Windows UI). When I launched IE, it launched in WinUI, so it's
reasonable to assume that mom & pop are going to use IE10 in WinUI at least as
much as they do "desktop" mode.

The whole kerfuffle here centers around the ambiguity of the terms in use. It
is unfair to take the blog author to task over his language, only to use
unclear language in return. Characterizing this as the "mobile version" of the
browser is incredibly unclear, considering it's the default on the OS that
will ship with desktop and laptop computers.

EDIT: Here's a little matrix I posted further down the page. I think this
makes the context a little more clear.

    
    
                            Windows UI  |  Desktop
                            (default)
        ================================+================                    
        Tablet or phone :   Affected    |  N/A
        Desktop or laptop:  Affected    |  NOT affected

~~~
bunderbunder
Maybe, I suppose it depends on how you use it. I've been using the consumer
release Windows 8 on my personal laptop for about a month now, and I honestly
haven't even seen the Metro version since then. I know it's there, but the
desktop version's generally quicker and easier to get to.

As far as the whole "mobile/not mobile" thing goes, I think that ambiguity is
totally inescapable on Windows 8. Windows 8 has an identity complex, and is
full of bits of UI that were clearly designed for touchscreen devices but are
also used on the desktop OS. But I don't think the fact that they're available
negates the fact that they're primarily optimized for a mobile experience.
It's more just a symptom of Microsoft trying (and, as illustrated by cases
like this, not necessarily succeeding) to shoehorn a mobile experience and a
desktop experience into the same environment.

------
cryptoz
Apple and Adobe killed Flash. MS is merely a "me too" Flash-killer here.

~~~
stephengillie
Videos chugging along at -1fps to 10fps on phones is what killed flash.

Edited...

~~~
lysol
Flash killed flash. Video runs just fine on phone hardware.

~~~
irunbackwards
Macromedia killed Flash, Adobe has been using the defibrillator for quite some
time now.

------
Turing_Machine
If your video delivery company isn't already supporting user-transparent
alternatives to Flash at this late date, you should probably be looking for a
different video delivery company.

It looks like Brightcove does support mobile (at least they claim to) so
what's the big deal? Can't they just deliver different content for the new IE,
the same way they are presumably already doing for the other non-Flash
platforms?

I'd be royally pissed if they told me it was my responsibility to get my site
whitelisted with Microsoft.

~~~
Rabidgremlin
Its all about the DRM. Flash is the only viable way of streaming with enough
protection that keeps rights-holders happy :(

Video on the web would be a lot simpler if DRM/content protection would die
die die...

~~~
wwweston
> Flash is the only viable way of streaming with enough protection that keeps
> rights-holders happy :(

Silverlight seems to work out for Netflix.

> Video on the web would be a lot simpler if DRM/content protection would die
> die die...

Let's say it did. What web standard (particularly that IE10 implements) makes
it relatively easy to implement even _non_ -protected streaming?

~~~
wmf
_What web standard (particularly that IE10 implements) makes it relatively
easy to implement even non-protected streaming?_

HTML5 (video tag), H.264, and (coming soon) DASH.

~~~
okaramian
Only progressive delivery if you're talking about IE10.

------
Rabidgremlin
Cached link since my poor server is dead:
[http://blog.rabidgremlin.com.nyud.net/2012/10/11/did-
microso...](http://blog.rabidgremlin.com.nyud.net/2012/10/11/did-microsoft-
just-kill-flash-ie10-wont-run-flash-unless-your-site-is-on-a-microsoft-
whitelist/)

------
ryanisinallofus
This article should be edited-away by the moderators. Not just link-bait
garbage but the title is an actual lie.

------
27182818284
[http://blog.rabidgremlin.com.nyud.net/2012/10/11/did-
microso...](http://blog.rabidgremlin.com.nyud.net/2012/10/11/did-microsoft-
just-kill-flash-ie10-wont-run-flash-unless-your-site-is-on-a-microsoft-
whitelist/)

Instead of a mortal wound from Apple or death by a thousand cuts, it seems
like Flash is dying from a series of maiming injuries.

Although DRM is often cited for the main reason Flash still exists, from my
experience it exists because it is still being taught at community colleges
and universities to graphic design students. They enter the workforce, do
something at their new job in Flash like a restaurant menu or whatever, it
looks good on a desktop and so Flash persists.

------
azakai
Can't tell because the page won't load, perhaps MS indirectly killed the
webserver of the blog ;)

------
jiggy2011
Somewhat OT and tin foil hat:

I was talking to a friend the other day about whether it was best investing
time into getting really good at developing for the web vs native
mobile/desktop.

My argument was that the big advantage of web dev was that you not only had
more choice of backend tools but it was also the best way to get your apps to
run on any platform including locked down ones without having to worry about
app store policies etc.

His counter argument was that the browser is becoming the new target for
malware etc especially as the new HTML5 APIs become more sophisticated. He
thought that it might be likely that some browser APIs would become locked
down by platform vendors. In other words if you want your web app to do stuff
like WebGL/Local Storage etc you would need to be explicitly whitelisted by
the OS or browser vendor. In which case there could be rules like "your web
app cannot do xyz, your website must not have content related to abc".

Outright website blocking would seem out of the question, but perhaps things
like this are the first sign of a move in that kind of direction?

------
efsavage
That's funny, because I won't use IE10 unless your site is on a whitelist.

------
JimmaDaRustla
Probably mostly a security strategy, with a side of merciless.

------
cyber
NoScript under Firefox, and ClickToFlash* under Safari can help the transition
to a Flash-free environment.

* hoyois.github.com/safariextensions/clicktoplugin/

~~~
riffraff
disabling plugins in chrome works fine too (which ends up being clicktoflash).
But it also makes it needlessly difficult to whitelist sites.

------
JimmaDaRustla
I think this is occurring because of some news released by Microsoft on Monday
- Flash will now be packaged with IE by default. This provides a better user
experience - never need to download and install/update Flash, but they provide
a way to keep it secure. Heard it on today's Security Now.

<http://twit.tv/show/security-now/373>

------
alrs
Wishful thinking says that they're taking a kick at Adobe because they're
aware of an effort to port Creative Suite to Linux.

------
Rabidgremlin
Sigh... title got edited... somebody didn't read the article.

This effects desktop windows 8 too not just mobile

------
franklaemmer
Windows is getting better and better.

I recently committed a website to a design review site. FLASH pages are not
allowed any more.

These pages used to be called FLASH–award, now they are called CSS-awards,
what comes next?

------
Rabidgremlin
Oops my server went boom (I really need to toughen it up)...

Here is the link to the Developer guidance for websites with content for Adobe
Flash Player in Windows 8: [http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/ie/jj193557(v=vs.85)...](http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/ie/jj193557\(v=vs.85\).aspx)

~~~
filipncs
That document clearly states that the desktop version of IE isn't affected.

~~~
Rabidgremlin
But the Windows UI version is and that is the default for Windows 8...

~~~
bradleyland
Unfortunately, I think you're being judged based on your headline because the
site is down. Cached versions are coming up slowly as well.

Are you running on WP? Got a cache plugin installed?

~~~
Rabidgremlin
I do but my Apache config sux so ran out of RAM (its a low traffic server).

I was gonna put Varnish in front but have just never got around to it.

Server resize in progress :)

------
Metrop0218
Wouldn't surprise me. Everyone is trying to kill flash; HTML5 has filled in
the gaps.

------
mtgx
Isn't this old news?

------
drivebyacct2
IE10 in RT mode. Title is a bit misleading.

~~~
ashmud
Beat me to it. Hasn't this change been known since early Win8 information was
available publicly?

Here's the MS page linked from the article, since the site is currently
unresponsive: [http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/ie/jj193557(v=vs.85)...](http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/ie/jj193557\(v=vs.85\).aspx)

~~~
drivebyacct2
>Hasn't this change been known since early Win8 information was available
publicly?

Yes.

------
cmccabe
I hope Ballmer issued a memo about "cutting off their air supply," for old
time's sake.

