
To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library - Tomte
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/08/opinion/sunday/civil-society-library.html
======
philipps
I can’t say enough good things about public libraries. At the MIT Media Lab we
started an innovation exchange with US libraries to co-develop new STEAM
education programs together (tinkering with electronics, building a “food
computer”, using data to tell stories...). We found that libraries are
wonderful collaborators. They are also one of the last places where people
from all walks of life encounter each other in a friendly environment. More
info about the project is at
[https://PLIX.media.mit.edu](https://PLIX.media.mit.edu) (and I hope this post
doesn’t seem too self-promotional - I just want to share our excitement about
working with public libraries).

~~~
3rdAccount
Sigh...not a big fan of "STEAM" as opposed to "STEM". STEM exists because
science, technology, engineering, and math don't get the focus they need in
the standard US education system. There is also the arts of music, and
drawing/painting/crafts, P.E., History, Literature that are still important,
but take the focus away.

If you say...well STEM is important, but let's not forget art, pretty soon
you'll say well we also need physical education as a healthy body is good too.
Before long, you're back at the standard education system.

Getting back to the main subject at hand, libraries are awesome and will be
even more important when Amazon forces the last brick and mortar bookstores
out of existence. I've also started to see library outreach programs that
teach classes on various subjects. Neil Gaiman has an essay on libraries in
his book "a view from the cheap seats" that you can also see here:

[https://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/oct/15/neil-gaiman-
fu...](https://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/oct/15/neil-gaiman-future-
libraries-reading-daydreaming)

As to the comment I'm responding to, you can probably mostly ignore my STEM vs
STEAM argument as it is only mildly important as far as how funds are
distributed. What really matters is people like you who are working to make a
difference in the world and thank you for that. To think that I might get to
bring my children to a library in the future that acts as a knowledge hub is
pretty amazing. I've also found the librarians at my local library to be very
kind & helpful people.

~~~
Alex3917
> STEM exists because science, technology, engineering, and math don't get the
> focus they need in the standard US education system.

Pretty much every HS kid in America is required to take at least 3 full years
of math and science if not 4. How exactly are they not getting the focus over
art? Schools are cutting art programs left and right in order to allocate more
resources toward things that get covered on standardized tests.

~~~
eftychis
3? (Kind of Sarcastic) wow!

Every single year/quarter of a person's basic education includes math and
science (physics and then biology and chemistry, then a bit of cs) where I am
from. Thus, worst case scenario a person has spent 9 years on that stuff
(among other topics sure).

Sure I can see art does not get a lot of focus from what you are saying and I
do not have experience in your system to say what the balance kept. But I can
see if a school is running under budget and needs to reduce something that
art/music is the first to go. Pity.

~~~
tehwebguy
FYI HS is “high school” which is only 4 years long

~~~
eftychis
I got that. Although not clear if they meant senior high school or what not.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_United_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_United_States)

It is a bit unclear to me when someone says high school in the U.S. if they
imply junior or senior or none of the above.

~~~
echion
"High school" is the universally-accepted term in the US, and means four years
before university. "Junior" high school is not a universal term, though exists
in some areas. "Senior high school" is a term I've never heard before, appears
uncited on that wikipedia page, and were I to say it to anyone I know they
would look at me funny.

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housingpost
I love the idea of libraries, but where I live most of them are almost as bad
as public transportation. People fighting, being loud, people on drugs asking
for money, so it's difficult to get comfortable to sit and read. Sadly you
have to go to the suburbs to get a quiet library where you don't get hassled.
Amazon certainly isn't the solution, but neither is having libraries be the
daytime homeless shelter.

~~~
krapp
To be fair, it's not the fault of libraries if society offers no more humane
options for the homeless than to hang out there... nor is it the fault of the
homeless.

~~~
dazc
In the UK, problems in libraries are usually not homeless people.

~~~
craftyguy
Care to share what the problems with libraries in the UK are then?

~~~
dazc
People for whom manners and respect of other people are alien concepts. In the
UK, their numbers are growing at an alarming rate, mainly because there is so
little done to sanction such behavior.

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kenneth
> [Libraries provide] welcoming public spaces for the poor, the homeless and
> young people.

And isn't this precisely why normal people don't use libraries anymore?
Because they've become de facto homeless shelters with unsavory guests who
frequently smell awful or use computers for watching porn. I recently visited
the famous Seattle public library and was shocked by the nature of the guests.

~~~
mxuribe
It is unfortunate that your experience was not a positive one...but i suppose
this says more about how society has failed in numerous ways that some
citizens are grasping at straws, and leveraging the only available
institutions for them.

~~~
closeparen
You can say the same thing about public transit, parks, and the sidewalk.

Does it matter? Not one bit. Once those places are allowed to become
disgusting, people with a choice in the matter stop going to them.

"You'd be surprised by how many San Franciscans think that the problem with
human feces or used syringes on sidewalks is the 'lack of empathy' of those
who notice them. That or their 'sense of entitlement.'"

------
flyinghamster
My local library has even made a tech push, not just with computers available,
but also has a couple of 3D printers and offers classes on using them. Or you
can bring in finished .STL files for printing, for the cost of the material
used.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
Is this in USA, how does state provision of such services pair with USAmerican
hatred of communism? Libraries, tool-shares, hackerspaces and such seem to be
the epitomy of communism.

~~~
st26
It's the co-op model, which USA generally has no problems with as long as it's
elective, e.g. you aren't forced to depend on it.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
It's different to a co-op model as you don't have to individually buy in, it's
provided as a function of the state, no? Are their commonly private [non-state
run] libraries in USA that you can become a member of, I'd guess not, which
makes your claim about election/forced dependency seem strange (in context,
though it might work more generally).

~~~
st26
Yes, it's a little bit different than a regular co-op, but:

1) it's paid for mostly by your local government, not the federal government,
so there's some self-determination.

2) You can get your books there, but you don't _have_ to get your books there,
and you can still have your own collection.

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sureaboutthis
I visit the library often. Two libraries in fact as I used to live in two
counties and each had their own and now both share resources. They give me
information on things I would not know because I didn't want to buy a book I
was worried wasn't what I was looking for. It helped me learn about FreeBSD
which helped me start a business I've been running for 15 years now along with
the programming languages. Libraries helped me cook and build things for my
home.

I own most of those books I borrowed from the library now and they still sit
on my bookshelf next to me.

And I'm pretty darned good at all that.

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cdoxsey
> Libraries don’t just provide free access to books and other cultural
> materials, they also offer things like companionship for older adults, de
> facto child care for busy parents, language instruction for immigrants and
> welcoming public spaces for the poor, the homeless and young people.

This is a description of the proper role of the church in civil society and a
public library is a poor substitute.

The church ushered in life with baptism, it educated the youth, it facilitated
the building of families in marriage, and comforted the grieving in death. It
extolled the virtues of the fruits of the spirit in relationships: "love, joy,
peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-
control". It sought unity in diversity ("There is neither Jew nor Gentile,
neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in
Christ Jesus."), and undermined social hierarchy ("You shall do no injustice
in court. You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great")

The church had problems, but it was an important component of civil society.
Now having abandoned it, we have nothing to replace it with, and we're paying
the price.

I understand that there are a lot of objections to religion here, and I fully
expect this comment to be downvoted to oblivion, but purely from a
sociological perspective, there was a lot lost in the relentless pursuit of
secularism.

~~~
j9461701
Churches encourage complacency (all of life is God's plan), many fought hard
against abortion, contraception, and women's rights/equality, and the insular
tribalism such places encourage has enabled a lot of truly ugly behavior to be
covered up due to in-group loyalty (see the Catholic church's sex abuse
scandal for an example). Ultimately secularization was a necessary step in the
evolution of society, as it's difficult if not impossible to reconcile a
techno-scientific post-industrial society with simplistic parochial
ideologies.

Personally, I _wish_ I could believe in religion. I want to live in a world
with a heaven and a hell and a god looking out for us, where things are
logical and just and evil-doers - eventually - always suffer. I think I'd
probably be a lot happier believing in that pleasant lie than I am living with
the truth. But such a thing just isn't in my wiring, and I imagine many modern
people share that sentiment. Hence, I suspect, all the new age woo that's
basically just re-packaging Jesus in a more digestible form.

~~~
noxToken
ever been to an Episcopalian service? I've been to a few dozen at a few
different churches in a few different states. They are a split from
Catholicism, so the rituals during service can seem familiar. However, the
sermon feels like your father or grandfather (and some cases mother or
grandmother) reassuring you for the week, and telling you to be your best
self. It's about as liberal as mainstream Western religion gets.

~~~
int_19h
Thing is, the denominations that tend to be less fire and brimstone, are also
less communal. I always assumed that it comes from strength (or lack thereof)
of shared convictions.

~~~
cxseven
They have convictions, too. The more salient differentiator is probably
extrinsic vs. intrinsic motivations, i.e. the need for a church to be a place
to show off or enforce virtues

------
ScottAS
The concept of “the library” is one that holds deep emotional attachment for
many people. The nostalgia of book smells, the exhibitionism of reading “cool”
physical books in public, the idea of being physically connected to “the
community”.

The core function of a library, storing physical books, makes little sense
anymore. Digital books are far superior in cost and functionality. But those
emotionally attached will claim “they’re not the same”.

Our province in Canada has a population of 500,000 and has over 100 libraries.
Each of those libraries needs to carry multiple copies of important
literature. Many of these libraries go unused. It’s a big waste of money yet
people can’t move on because of emotional attachment and emotional reasoning.

I do believe in the reinvisioning of libraries as a more digital space, a
place to work, and a place for the public to learn.

But let’s stop the emotional reasoning and use pure logic. “Civil society” is
more alive than ever, on the internet.

~~~
arandr0x
I understand the argument and I agree that digital books are the future,
however, they are so inferior in discoverability that if my library ever moves
all-digital I will replace it with one of my 10 local used bookstores. I need
to browse books to find some I like and am not interested in letting
algorithms or Internet echo chambers do so for me.

My own library also has copies of e.g. sheet music... I agree that those could
be digital but it's more practical to stick a giant piece of paper on my
keyboard vs a tablet (would be afraid the tablet could fall, also don't own a
tablet). And the library is often one of few places these days that young
children see physical books in large numbers... won't it be bad for their eyes
to do all that reading digitally?

~~~
sampl
Agreed, the UX of paper is still so much better than kindle. Nicer to read, no
lag, easier to organize and share, nicer taking notes in margins. I bought a
kindle and went back to paper.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
One of the main benefits of ebooks is cost of production, surely. There is a
massive cost saving (and impact on jobs etc.) but it seems the producers have
managed to keep all of that benefit to themselves?

~~~
BuildTheRobots
It's more than just production, let me highlight storage and transport costs
too (having just moved house with tonnes of books it's very much on my mind).

There's also longevity, which ties in with search-ability. Modern paper even
under the best of conditions only has a century of shelf-life, where as
digital data should persist for forever. Also as it's digital we get the
benefits of flowing text, searching/indexing and easily converting to new
formats and even languages - and the ability to easily update these
conversions as technology progresses.

Theoretically (on paper?) digital books have all the benefits in the world. As
a book lover I still can't quite get on with them in all but the trashiest of
uses.

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skookumchuck
I appreciate the librarians because they're one of the very few people who
stand up against ubiquitous government surveillance. It's nice to have a place
where I am not profiled based on what I browse.

~~~
zanba38
I don't understand this comment. Are librarians politically aligned in the US?
If so, why?

Also, if you are going to downvote, you might as well spend some time
explaining why.

~~~
detaro
Avoiding patrons from being tracked/potentially in the future prosecuted for
their reading is professional ethics for librarians, pretty much regardless of
political alignment.

~~~
zanba38
That's interesting and new to me, as I'm not American. Does the American
government track or prosecute people for their reading habits in libraries? Is
it to be expected then that librarians are aligned to the political left?

~~~
kaybe
Since 2001 (at least) the law enforcement is supposed to have access to
library records. The legal basis keeps changing, though.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act)

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tokai
Librarians and library scientist have talked about this for a long time. Look
up "library as third place" if you want to read more (and get an insider
perspective).

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_louisr_
Enough of this ideological driven media company. This company's actions do not
align with "restoring civil society".

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Deprogrammer9
We are all on the library now.

