
A New Connection Between the Gut and Brain - neo4sure
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-new-connection-between-the-gut-and-brain1/
======
hammock
>immune signals sent from the gut can compromise the brain’s blood vessels

This is known, Rhonda Patrick talks about it on Joe Rogan (I can hear you
groaning).

What confuses me is that this ties new research to old, outdated research (the
old wisdom that salt leads to high blood pressure). No sources, but latest
studies show excess salt is not harmful in healthy people.

~~~
dzhiurgis
My doctor still recommends me use less salt due to my high pressure. Is he an
idiot?

~~~
rootusrootus
Mine still tells me I should avoid eggs because they will raise my
cholesterol. I wouldn't call him an idiot, just not quite up to date on the
latest nutritional studies. Not a big deal since our understanding of
nutrition seems really weak and changes pretty often.

In any case, there is this: [https://www.acsh.org/news/2018/08/10/spoonful-
salt-makes-blo...](https://www.acsh.org/news/2018/08/10/spoonful-salt-makes-
blood-pressure-go-down-13289)

Which suggests that salt intake does raise blood pressure slightly, but it's a
very small effect and does not measurably impact actual cardiovascular
outcomes.

~~~
chrisco255
Total tangent, but since our understanding of nutrition is weak and has
shifted so much over the decades, why is it not also reasonable to doubt our
understanding of Earth's climate and the extent to which CO2 impacts temps?

~~~
riskable
Not yet mentioned: Collectively, the human gut _evolves_. Over quite a short
timespan! Climate is basically rock solid by comparison.

For example, a new type of food may become quite popular over the course of
like five to ten years. In that time millions upon millions of people will
undergo a change in their gut flora from eating that food--even if only on
occasion!

Who TF knows what the long term impact of such an evolutionary change could
be? 90% of the time it's probably nothing but 10% of the people might develop
IBS later in life because their gut bacteria suddenly evolved in such a way as
to throw off the "balance of power" (as it were... The many zillions of gut
bacteria are constantly at war with each other to process food faster and more
efficiently).

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novaRom
I find I consume more salt at times after intensive sport (semi-marathons,
swimming). It looks my body naturally requires more salt to restore itself. So
the advice to consume less salt should not be generalized.

~~~
Viliam1234
The question is whether salt (sodium chloride) is exactly what your body
needs... or just the best it knows it can get.

Perhaps magnesium would be better, but sodium chloride can also do the job at
the cost of some side effects. And if salt is all you have tried, then your
body will signal that it needs salt, because that's what worked in the past.

~~~
glastra
That is a gross and very, very dangerous oversimplification that flies in the
face of everything we know about electrolytes.

I highly recommend you perform a search for intracellular and extracellular
electrolyte concentrations.

I also highly recommend not giving anyone advice that could threaten their
health.

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bynormous
The gut brain axis is a new and exciting field of research. Here's an
educational animation showing the pathways that make these connections
possible: [http://mmm.hsiao.science](http://mmm.hsiao.science)

~~~
popsomoa
For a deeper dive on the topic that lab was on a recent gut biome episode of
the Ologies podcast!
[https://www.alieward.com/ologies/2018/11/26/microbiology-
gut...](https://www.alieward.com/ologies/2018/11/26/microbiology-gut-biome-
with-dr-elaine-hsiao)

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andreygrehov
Research is here: [https://twin.sci-
hub.se/6638/a9852778fa43b8bb70b67ce5abc71d7...](https://twin.sci-
hub.se/6638/a9852778fa43b8bb70b67ce5abc71d7e/faraco2018.pdf)

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dilawar
I wonder if many traditional medicine systems has some inkling of it?

~~~
Santosh83
Yes. The traditional Indian medicinal system called Ayurveda (as well as
traditional Indian culture in general) regarded food as a form of medicine.
Every form of food could potentially affect your body in various ways and many
disorders and diseases were treated by either modifying the diet or by special
herbal concoctions (as the concept of synthetic, molecular medicine wasn't
discovered back then)... it makes sense for preventing many lifestyle related
problems.

~~~
kr4
I'd recommend [0] as a reading on this topic.

The Welness Sense ... combines the yogic view of food as sattvic, rajasic and
tamasic with Ayurvedic perspective and further relates it to the modern view
of foods as acidic and alkaline. This is also the first time that Ayurvedic
prakriti (vata, pitta and kapha) has been discussed in the context of yogic
prakriti (sattvic, rajasic and tamasic) in a truly cohesive fashion. The
Wellness Sense extracts the essence of Ayurveda, yoga and tantra to combine it
with modern medicine in this simple, step-by-step handbook on how to take
better care of yourself. Accessibly written, deeply researched and distilled
from Om Swami’s own lived experience, The Wellness Sense puts your health and
happiness in your hands.

0: [http://omswami.com/book/the-wellness-sense](http://omswami.com/book/the-
wellness-sense)

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vklx
Phrenology: "Show me your head and I tell you who you are".

Gut bacteria frenzy: "Show me your bowels and I tell you who you are".

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jshowa3
The discussion on this piece is quite alarming. From general distrust of
doctors, to thinking people can research themselves into knowing better, to
slights about animal studies not being effective arbiters to humans.

No wonder there's so much BS in the medical industry. Too many non-doctors
with an opinion.

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how_to_bake
Anecdotal thought: I have noticed that I feel angry after eating bread. Sounds
goofy, but I realized that it wasn't the caffeine from coffee and it wasn't me
"not being a morning person". Recognizing this has helped my relationships a
surprising amount.

~~~
sizzle
I have a problem with bread too, I start falling asleep for like 5-10 minutes.
I think it's either gluten sensitivity or carbs to blame. I try to avoid bread
because of this.

------
DoreenMichele
So, a few thoughts from a person with a condition that significantly impacts
how my body processes salt:

1\. After years of pursuing diet and lifestyle approaches to managing my
condition and reading up on health stuff generally (and talking to people with
PhDs in topics like Chemistry and Biology), I concluded that the circulatory
system is the means by which all of the body interacts with all other parts of
the body. So if one thing is out of whack in one part of the body, the primary
way it impacts some other part of the body is by way of how it impacts blood
health. At this point, I think this should be viewed as a kind of "Biology
101" thing and I'm not very impressed with dramatic pronouncements that the
gut impacts blood vessel health in the brain, _le gasp_. To me, that's kind of
"Well, duh!"

2\. The body uses various molecules in conjunction with various others, so one
of the things you see is that adding more of X by itself will naturally cause
chemical derangement. Salt in particular works in conjunction with a number of
other minerals and the natural source of salt -- the sea -- contains a variety
of other minerals. "Table salt" is not how nature supplies us with salt. It
is, itself, chemically deranged from the get go and very much on purpose.

One of the things they put in table salt is a chemical to make it pour easier.
We assume this chemical is harmless, but I'm not aware of any actual studies
on what it does to the body, especially not if you start consuming a lot more
of it than "normal". So if you are consuming a lot of table salt, you are
likely consuming other things that aren't normal while not getting the variety
of minerals found in ocean water. I found high quality sea salts that had that
variety of minerals to be highly helpful in regulating my body's relationship
to salt. Getting more salt helped me, but only if it was accompanied by the
right minerals, the right carbs and the right fats. It took some experimenting
to find the right combo.

3\. About 70 to 80 percent of the immune cells in the body are found in the
gut. So, your gut is a primary part of your immune function. It really should
be no surprise at all that what you eat impacts immune function.

4\. I found it enormously helpful to read up on Altitude Sickness. This was a
huge Aha! moment for me that makes it clear how the blood connects different
organs.

You begin peeing at altitude well before you are at any risk of suffering
Altitude Sickness because the thin air means you can't breathe out as much
blood gas wastes as you normally would, so your body starts shunting the
excess blood gas wastes through the kidneys to get rid of them. This has other
consequences, such as dragging salt and other electrolytes out with it. So you
need not only more fluids at altitude, but also more electrolytes as well.
Heat waves above 105F and hiking at altitude are about the only time I consume
Gatorade.

~~~
zimpenfish
> We assume this [anti-caking] chemical is harmless, but I'm not aware of any
> actual studies on what it does to the body, especially not if you start
> consuming a lot more of it than "normal".

In Europe, thankfully, it's Sodium Ferrocyanide[1] which has been
studied[2][3].

"The Panel concluded that ferrocyanides (E 535–538) are of no safety concern
at the current authorised use and use levels."

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_ferrocyanide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_ferrocyanide)
[2]
[http://www.inchem.org/documents/jecfa/jecmono/v05je02.htm](http://www.inchem.org/documents/jecfa/jecmono/v05je02.htm)
[3]
[https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/efsajournal/pub/5374](https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/efsajournal/pub/5374)

~~~
amelius
From your wikipedia link:

> The ferrocyanides are less toxic than many salts of cyanide, because they
> tend not to release free cyanide. However, like all ferrocyanide salt
> solutions, addition of an acid can result in the production of hydrogen
> cyanide gas, which is toxic.

Doesn't stomach acid qualify as an acid here?

~~~
zimpenfish
I'm assuming (maybe wrongly) that if stomach acid was capable of triggering
the production of hydrogen cyanide gas, those two linked reports which say
"perfectly safe for humans" would say "DO NOT EAT THIS BLOODY HELL WHAT ARE
YOU THINKING" instead.

~~~
belltaco
Should we be worried about microdosing toxic chemicals?

~~~
syn0byte
Not for cyanide. It occurs in nature far to frequently for us not to be well
suited to clear it. Our bodies even convert it to B12 in some cases. A hand
full of nuts (organic, free-range, et al) will likely have more hydrogen
cyanide than the anti-caking agent in table salt.

[https://www.health.ny.gov/environmental/emergency/chemical_t...](https://www.health.ny.gov/environmental/emergency/chemical_terrorism/cyanide_general.htm)

