
Internet in Iran gradually shuttting down due to protests - anticensor
https://twitter.com/netblocks/status/1195775905907576832
======
sepent
I live in Iran and I am lucky enough to have a connected link right now, but
this is the last link among the others I lost in the previous hours. I was
wondering is there any stable solution like satellite internet or something
without direct affiliation with government for people like me, desperate
enough to ask questions like this.

~~~
tracer4201
This is an interesting notion and one I never thought about before - there is
nothing preventing another state from beaming internet down to citizens of
Iran (or any other nation that shuts down internet but lacks technology to
shoot down a satellite...

If Elon Musk was to put satellites over Iran, what kind of ground
infrastructure would be required for someone to connect? Can it be a radio
that fits in ones pocket but can easily be connected via USB or some other
ubiquitous interface? The goal here is to have something so easy to hide and
transport that the government can maybe find it from 50% of the population at
best.

~~~
ISL
It is hard to hide when you are transmitting RF. Even with beamforming, there
will be sidelobes.

~~~
mycall
Maybe hiding doesn't matter. Of course, signal jamming isn't hard to achieve.

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pdm55
Protests are about the increase in the price of petrol, a multi-faceted
situation. Just one aspect is the money to be made from smuggling fuel:

"According to foreign-based economist Mehrdad Seyed Asgari in an article on
Radio Farda's Persian website, the price of one liter of gasoline in Iran is
currently about 8 cents while the price in the destination of smuggled fuel in
Turkey, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, Pakistanis, Iraq, Afghanistan and Armenia is
at least 1.23 US dollar. This means that every liter of smuggled fuel brings
in a profit of more than a dollar.

The astonishingly low gasoline price in Iran is because the government
subsidizes more than 90 percent of the cost; just the opposite of what many
other countries do when they heavily tax fuels to reduce consumption.

The devaluation of the Iranian currency in the past one year has made gasoline
at least three times cheaper in dollars. That has made smuggling even a more
profitable venture."

Another aspect is that the subsidised price of fuel benefits the upper-middle
class:

"Another problem is that this subsidy comes out of the country’s wealth but
mainly benefits those who have a car and can afford to drive a lot. The
richest 10 percent of the Iranian population benefits from the subsidy 11
times more than the poorest ten percent.

In 2016, 43 percent of Iranian families had gasoline fuelled cars. The other
53 percent do not own a car, so they do not benefit from the gasoline subsidy.
The shocking reality is that the richest urban families own at least one car
while only one percent of the poorest rural families have a vehicle."

If the aim of the price increase is to redistribute wealth, who is doing the
protesting? (Facetiously, I suggest that it might be privileged youth who go
cruising the streets at night.)

[https://en.radiofarda.com/a/iran-fuel-gasoline-smuggling-
san...](https://en.radiofarda.com/a/iran-fuel-gasoline-smuggling-
sanctions/29783028.html)

~~~
yyyk
The protests are too widespread to be classified as just a 'rich-people's
thing'. The regime would not have bothered to suspend the internet if they
were so limited. I guess the poor may pay less, but they can afford the hurt
less too.

In Chile, protesters have a slogan: “This protest is not about 30 pesos, but
30 years”. I think this is the case here. The Iranian economy never did very
well, and limiting one of the few things the regime gave to the people was
bound to lead to a reaction. That said, these types of protests usually
produce little political effect.

~~~
pdm55
What's life like for a young Iranian?

"With the sexes segregated at school and boys and girls discouraged from
socialising together, trying to get to know members of the opposite sex is a
huge preoccupation for Iranian teenagers. They hang around shopping malls, in
cafes and parks, parade up and down boulevards and spend lots of time cruising
around in cars."[0]

I once saw a TV doc on life in Iran. The night-time cruising reminded me a lot
of the film "American Graffiti". I imagine Iranian youth would not be happy
with any increase in the price of fuel.

I take your point though that widespread protests signal more than just the
discontent of youth.

[0][https://www.lonelyplanet.com/iran/background/other-
features/...](https://www.lonelyplanet.com/iran/background/other-
features/5dfe99c7-3ffb-4664-a7de-4ba79bcc016d/a/nar/5dfe99c7-3ffb-4664-a7de-4ba79bcc016d/361011)

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jammygit
Better title: Iran government gradually shuts down internet in response to
protests

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ur-whale
This type of event should make us all concerned, not just because of the
oppression people of Iran are being subjected to, but also because the exact
same thing is happening in many places in the world, eg China, but even more
importantly, because it could very easily happen to so-called "free"
societies.

The problem is that internet is _not_ as decentralized as everyone seems to
think.

To wit: sites seized by the FBI have a very hard time getting back up, but
that's far from the only example.

A really "free" internet needs two things:

1) a decentralized, blockchain-based DNS. This is actually not hard
technically, but it is hard to deploy when the incumbent DNS system is
ingrained everywhere like a cancer.

2) a routing infrastructure where _every_ participant offers global routes (a
mesh network). This is technically harder, especially in less densely
populated area (unless we build a secondary, tor-like internet on top of the
existing one).

The day this type of infrastructure (every user a router) comes alive,
censorship will get much, much harder.

Decentralize all teh things !

~~~
xiphias2
At this point there are enough wifi tethering capable mobile phones all over
the world to run a mostly decentralized internet.

Also Lightning network is capable of sending messages, but the infrastructure
is just being built. Without micropayments the incentive structures wouldn't
be there to build the decentralized internet (which of course means mostly
centralized in practice, but increased fees instead of disrupted network in
case of government action).

At the same time Lightning Network needs people to adopt Bitcoin, in which the
adoption is about 10M people all over the world, which is in the 0.1% order.
At about 2x / year growth, it will take about 6-10 years until it gets
practical.

~~~
DuskStar
> At this point there are enough wifi tethering capable mobile phones all over
> the world to run a mostly decentralized internet.

What, are they supposed to make a mesh network? Because cell services are just
as centralized.

~~~
xiphias2
Of course. You just need a few people who connect cities with other cities
with a lasers that the government can't find, and payed well for it.

------
FillardMillmore
One thing I wonder about in events like these: what is the larger priority of
government in following through with these actions, stemming the free flow of
information or mitigating/limiting the citizens' ability to resist and
organize? I tend to think it's more the latter but both elements probably play
a role. I must say that I appreciate the people who run Tor relays that help
these people in autocratic/theocratic nations access information, despite the
risks associated with being the 'exit node' for nefarious requests.

~~~
morelisp
It's not about Iran, but there was an interesting article / analysis called
"How Censorship in China Allows Government Criticism but Silences Collective
Expression" \- you may guess from the title how it answers your question.

[https://gking.harvard.edu/publications/how-censorship-
china-...](https://gking.harvard.edu/publications/how-censorship-china-allows-
government-criticism-silences-collective-expression)

------
citilife
Why are they increasing the price of gas (which triggered the protests)?

My understanding is that they are largely embargoed, so shouldn't they have
plenty of fuel around, given they are (or were) a major exporter?

~~~
thg
Apparently they want to use the additional revenue to help needy families.

> "Many people in oil-producing Iran see cheap gasoline as a national right
> and price hike sparked worries about a further squeeze on living costs,
> despite assurances from the Iranian authorities that the revenue raised
> would be used to help needy families."

Source: [https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-iran-fuel-
protests/irans-f...](https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-iran-fuel-
protests/irans-fuel-protests-turn-political-state-media-idUKKBN1XQ0CI?il=0)

~~~
whatshisface
> _Apparently they want to use the additional revenue to help needy families._

> _despite assurances from the Iranian authorities that the revenue raised
> would be used to help needy families._

I don't see how those two statements are connected at all. Smart people don't
even trust statements coming from American politicians, and Iran is a second-
world country.

~~~
Filligree
> I don't see how those two statements are connected at all. Smart people
> don't even trust statements coming from American politicians, and Iran is a
> second-world country.

It's not like _every_ country that used to be under the USSR's umbrella has
untrustworthy politicians. There tends to be more than average, yes, but
that's true for the US as well.

Actually, does that include Iran? I think you might mean they're a third-world
country.

~~~
the-dude
Original definition of 1st/2nd/3rd world countries was based on sphere of
influence, not state of economy.

1st world : US 2nd world : USSR 3rd world : not aligned with either

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buboard
Makes you think if DARPA's "Internet" project succeeded or failed in making a
resilient, attack-resistant network

~~~
PostOnce
If Iran goes offline, all the connections that would have routed through it
now route around it, so _the internet_ is resilient. i.e. it's resilient for
all of Iran's neighbors who will be unaffected.

~~~
saagarjha
So it's possible to eclipse part of the network.

~~~
PostOnce
That was the point (in the DARPA context of this thread) -- nuke takes out a
city, network still functions and routes around it. So signals are still
getting from SAC to DC or whatever.

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itsmeva
Hey you guys, does anyone know if we still can call a friend in Iran to check
on him or not? Did they shut down phones coming from outside too?

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hassancf
“ how tech #sanctions helped Iranian government to shut down the internet.”

[https://twitter.com/ammir/status/1196388376661970950?s=21](https://twitter.com/ammir/status/1196388376661970950?s=21)

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jackfoxy
Can a Farsi speaker please translate the chants of the protestors in the
videos into English?

~~~
emilsedgh
If you mean this video [0] they are chanting:

* Down with Dictator

* Down with Rouhani (President)

* Down with Khamenei (Supreme Leader)

[0]
[https://twitter.com/Maryamtaban12/status/1195792928934944768](https://twitter.com/Maryamtaban12/status/1195792928934944768)

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naringas
Iran's national bank, is as far as I know, not independent from Iran's
government. Just like Bolivia's, Venezuela's, Cuba's, and North Korea's.

Saddam's Iraq also used to be like that before w. bush waged war on them.

~~~
nextstep
Kind of like how the Federal Reserve is not independent from the US
government?

~~~
naringas
no, as fas as I understand, these banks are directly part of their
governments. Whereas a typical central bank is independent and autonomous.

~~~
marcosdumay
If by typical you mean just looking on developed economies, then "autonomous"
holds. "Independent" is a rarity.

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perlpimp
this is where Starlink will help ? That makes me think that some sort of P2P
wireless sneaker net can be engineered, something along lines of the wireless
app that was used during umbrella protests - FireChat.

~~~
bad_alloc
When threatened a regime will jam the signal, track transmitters, make them
illegal, throw people into torture prisons for posession and/or kill owners.
It will make it harder for the regime but a cornered totalitarian will do
everything to control this. Maybe they could include a "stealth mode" for
passive receiving, but that brings a new bag of problems with it.

I think the solution here is not more tech but killing the despots.

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teresa123
Now I cant get in touch with my freind see when hes coming back home

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teresa123
No I cant get in touch with my freind see when hes coming home

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abtinf
The current headline, "Internet in Iran gradually shuttting down due to
protests" is a massive injustice against freedom seeking people.

An accurate headline would be "Totalitarian Iranian Regime Shutting Down
Internet".

~~~
anticensor
HN guidelines say, use the original title, or choose a neutral one if no title
used in the original.

~~~
abtinf
There is no original title.

Which part of my proposed title is not objectively true?

