
Finland plans to give every citizen a basic income of 800€ a month - lumberjack
http://qz.com/566702/finland-plans-to-give-every-citizen-a-basic-income-of-800-euros-a-month/
======
deepnet
Another way to look at this is tax money that the government would have spent
is now spent by the citizenry directly.

Giving people money rather than, government, banks or as corporate tax breaks
is a novel way to redistribute wealth - in direct oppositition to the
paralysing bailout / austerity cycle much of Europe is suffering from.

The surprising sucess of Bush's economic stimulus cheques shows money
distributed this way stays local longer stimulating economic activity in small
business which provide long term employment and community investement -
entrepreneurs are in great part the wealth of nations.

This removes the poverty trap, alters everyones risk profile for startups, and
future proofs an economy against robocalypse - looking forward to seeing this
in action.

~~~
sharemywin
I doubt taking money from the disabled and the elderly and giving it to able
bodied people is going to "help" them out of poverty.

~~~
efes
I've had friends and acquaintances in multiple countries who've had to choose
not to do things because they risked no longer qualifying for disability and
other programs that they were dependent on. Once you are in you tend to stay
in because these programs inevitably victimize those who try to leave and
fail.

Giving everyone a little backup makes for a better society where people can
take the risks they should take.

~~~
sharemywin
My grandmother is 83 years old and gets about $1200/mo to live on. So, your
saying her lazy ass needs to go get a job when her check goes down to $800 so
I can have an $800. it makes no sense. a negative income tax makes a lot more
sense and you can set it up so the marginal tax rate doesn't discourage people
from working.

~~~
efes
I suspect that much like in Switzerland, many politicians are looking at
something demanded of them that they wish to sabotage and are craftily pitting
current social net recipients against it is one way to do that. I think the
unfinished process of publishing and voting on it is meant to address that.

I'd be arguing from the opposite side, where you both get the ~$1200 in
universal income if that is a normal pension amount, and then I'd expect the
average HN reader to end up paying a little more in additional taxes than they
get in income under a universal income plan. But over time, I think it will
raise all ships.

There are many ways to implement that, but I think universal income has a
better opportunity to remain intact and increasing once pushed through. Plans
that try to achieve fairness through more complex benefits and scales tend to
end up in tatters because they offer opponents a lot of surface area and ways
to implement a thousand cuts where few people feel a connection to each
individual part.

------
ColinWright
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10090542](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10090542)
: 108 days ago, 233 comments

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10553008](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10553008)
: 23 days ago, 280 comments

Other submissions:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10093134](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10093134)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10682359](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10682359)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10685049](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10685049)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10683527](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10683527)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10511242](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10511242)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9730541](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9730541)

I'm sure there are more.

 _Edited to correct incorrect URLs initially posted._

~~~
gus_massa
The fist two threads you linked had no comments, perhaps you copied the wrong
URL.

(In this case, I'd avoid to link to the others threads unless one of them have
a very interesting comment that deserves to be rescued from an obscure thread.
This is more frequent in technical threads, were the comments may add a lot of
information. Basic Income is too close to politics and usually the threads are
full of unsupported opinions.)

~~~
ColinWright
That's bizarre - I'll look into that - thanks.

 _Edit: Now fixed - thanks again for the heads-up._

------
acd
This is quite interesting from an entrepreneur point of view, people could try
lots of different startup, company ideas but still have at least a basic
income.

~~~
sharemywin
not if you've got to take care of your disabled grandma because her benefits
got cut and she can't live by herself anymore.

~~~
stephen_cagle
She gets the 800 as well. Seems much more fair than the system in the United
States, where benefits accrue relative to your political influence (or, often,
the political influence of the lobbying group that manages your interest).

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randomname2
Finland has been in a depression for a while. Their GDP is still 6pc below its
previous peak. [1]

If this is a last desperate ploy to prevent secular stagnation one has to
wonder how effective this will be - it is sold as temporary but the moment it
is withdrawn their economy truly craters.

[1] [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/12001895/Finlands-
depress...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/12001895/Finlands-depression-
is-the-final-indictment-of-Europes-monetary-union.html)

------
sharemywin
so who loses out on the plan? The disabled, elderly, children of poor single
mothers. why should they get all the benefits. now spoiled rich college kids
get extra money to spend.

