
Alaska is warming so fast, quality-control algorithms are rejecting the data - lisper
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2017/12/12/barrow-is-warming-so-fast-algorithms-removed-the-data-because-it-seemed-unreal/?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories-2_alaska-warming-230pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
======
soperj
"Just this week, scientists reported that the Arctic had its second-warmest
year — behind 2016 — with the lowest sea ice ever recorded. "

Lowest sea ice ever recorded is verifiably untrue.
[http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2017/09/arctic-sea-ice-
at-...](http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2017/09/arctic-sea-ice-at-minimum-
extent-2/)

It was the 8th lowest in the 38 year record.

~~~
gerdesj
OK soperj, why not come out with your real snag with this article, rather than
sniping around the edges.

Are you seriously a sea ice height/depth soz - level fan?

~~~
soperj
Yes. I check it out nearly every day.

------
UncleEntity
> The Arctic is warming faster than any other place on Earth...

I was reading like two days ago the Antarctic was warming faster than any
other place on earth and shedding icebergs like crazy. Some sort of runaway
effect from warm South Pacific water eating them away from underneath. Sea
level to rise like 70ft.

Get your story straight people...

~~~
tziki
Nothing you say contradicts.

~~~
gerdesj
Arctic != Antarctic

------
throwahey
> The missing station was just the result of rapid, man-made climate change,
> with a runaway effect on the Arctic.

I'm not a climate change denier, but isn't it disingenuous to label this as
man-made. There isn't enough science around how the climate functions in
general to make the assumption that in this specific area, the changes are a
result of humans rather than natural cycles we have yet to identify because of
the very little data we have.

~~~
orf
It's a pretty firm scientific consensus that mankind is having an outsized
impact on the changing climate. It would be disingenuous to report otherwise.

Sure, we could be exacerbating natural cycles, but according to the large
volumes of data we _do_ have it's pretty clear that humans are a major
contributing factor.

~~~
throwahey
Consensus is not conclusive. It takes a special kind of hubris for someone to
think they understand climate change with the minute dataset we have.

We don't have enough data to guess next month's weather let alone the possible
effects in 10+ years.

~~~
orf
> It takes a special kind of hubris for someone to think they understand
> climate change with the minute dataset we have.

And an even greater hubris to ignore the pretty vast dataset we do have and go
diametrically against the conclusions it suggests.

It's also pretty funny how that greater hubris is exhibited mainly in a
particular country, and a specific party in that country which has a lot of
ties/donations from oil companies. Especially when other branches of the
government are preparing for the results of man made climate change. Makes you
think, doesn't it.

~~~
dizzystar
In a certain state in said country, the majority of people are very much not a
part of said party, recycle by law, and claim to live with minimal carbon
footprint.

They also prefer to buy gas-guzzling SUVs, use millions of gallons of water to
maintain lawns in the desert, redirect water to their large population centers
to do so, and line up to buy the new iThing each year (tossing out the
perfectly good old one in the trash).

~~~
seanmcdirmid
I’m seriously trying to figure out what state you are talking about.
Definitely not California (cities aren’t very near the desert, even Los
Angeles is in a semi humid basin), Arizona doesn’t have lawns mostly, Utah SLC
wouldn’t really qualify as desert either. So then I thought you might mean
Saudi Arabia?

~~~
dragonwriter
> Definitely not California (cities aren’t very near the desert

The coastal cities aren't, but the southern central valley cities
(Bakersfield, notably) are _in_ the desert.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Sure, but that isn’t many of them. A drive through the desert finds it is
mostly unpopulated. Definitely “desert” doesn’t define most of California’s
population, it isn’t related to the Bay Area, Sacramento, etc....

You can find a list of California’s largest desert cities at
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deserts_of_California](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deserts_of_California),
and it’s pretty marginal. Note Bakersfield isn’t even on that list.

~~~
dragonwriter
> You can find a list of California’s largest desert cities at
> [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deserts_of_California](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deserts_of_California),
> and it’s pretty marginal.

The list is incomplete; it seems to include only cities in the named deserts,
not cities in desert climate; much of the San Joaquin Valley, especially the
southern part, is desert—but not in a specifically _named_ desert—that is
irrigated for agriculture.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
That still doesn’t make sense, those people primarily vote Republican and are
agricultural. GP was hinting about vast liberal desert cities...so they must
mean some other state.

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yters
Is there hard data showing sea ice melt causes ocean levels to rise? Because
water will displace the same mass whether it is frozen or not. The best
explanation I've heard is the loss of reflection from the sea ice will cause
the water to warm, and warm water is less dense. But most sea ice is
underwater, so am not sure just how much reflection is lost, and how much that
affects the sea water warming.

~~~
gerdesj
"Because water will displace the same mass whether it is frozen or not."

Why do bergs float and have a bit sticking up out of the water?

Why do ice cubes in my G&T insist on floating?

Sea ice melt is a bit of a worry if you are a polar bear that hunts on pack
ice but for sea rise the real snag is land based glaciers melting into the
sea. Greenland may be off your radar but it is a bit of a worry - lot of ice
turning into water there, along with other places.

~~~
greglindahl
Sea ice melt is a huge worry because it changes the albedo of the polar ocean.
That means more heating from the sun, which means a warmer Arctic and a warmer
planet. It's one of the positive reinforcement mechanisms that's a huge worry
to the climate community.

Greenland melting is also huge, and sea ice melting will make it go faster.

~~~
yters
But how much does it actually change the albedo? Are there hard numbers and
analysis? Most of the sea ice is below the surface, so a lot of sea ice melt
does not necessarily translate to a large change in albedo.

------
jquery
Previous submissions:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15893859](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15893859)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15083989](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15083989)

------
zeep
and it's snowing in Florida already...

~~~
gerdesj
I've got relos in Palm Spring FL. Should I be warning them? 8)

~~~
zeep
not sure... this snow was north Florida... sometimes it doesn't even snow this
early in southern Canada

------
apple4ever
Maybe its because the data input is bad.

The Earth isn't warming, that we know.

The models that used to predict the warming can't even output data that
matches the observed data.

In 20 years, when the Earth has cooled, all the people who failed to use
science will look like fools.

~~~
King-Aaron
> The Earth isn't warming, that we know.

[citation needed]

