

JavaScript Strategies at Microsoft with Scott Hanselman - Gargol
http://javascriptjabber.com/071-jsj-javascript-strategies-at-microsoft-with-scott-hanselman/
JavaScript Jabber Show
======
yuhong
FYI, the current policy on IE seems to be that they end major upgrades when a
version of Windows enters Extended Support (April 2009 in the case of XP) and
they support _all_ versions of IE ever released for a version of Windows with
security updates until that version of Windows exits Extended Support (the
infamous April 2014 date in case of XP). I personally reported a security bug
in IE6/7 myself which got fixed recently for example.

------
mattmanser
/rant

Contrary to what Scott's saying here, I think the ASP.Net team have gone far
too far down the rabbit hole.

I was doing an interview a few weeks back and part of the interview was a
technical test to code up a little website. I'd never actually created a new
project using VS 2012, just an accident of history. Part of it was an admin
interface to show the files in the project.

So a few minutes later, fire up the new admin page and boom, a colossal amount
of random js files, css files, etc. that had been 'helpfully' added to the
project. Both of us were perplexed at what the sheer quantity of crap that had
been added.

It's just got a little silly now. When MVC came out it was great because it
didn't include much baggage, the only slight annoyance was the MS-
WEMUSTDOEVREYTHINGSUPERFORMALLY-SPEAK written AccountController.

Now it's just, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete,
remove reference, remove reference, remove reference. No I don't want to use
'unobtrusive' javascript, a term invented to fix a problem only you caused
because you really can't write javascript. In fact I don't want you to create
anything at all javascript related thanks. And I pretty much ignore most of
your HTML binders because you're not very good at HTML either.

And _if_ I want to use jQuery UI, which will usually only be for the
datepicker, I really don't need all those other jQuery UI files do I? They
even know they've included too much as they try and hide it all in folders.

And who's bright idea was it to include Modernizr? It's not going to be needed
unless you're in the tiny amount of MS web developers who actually code for
public websites using HTML5, compared to the massive amount of developers
coding internal websites on a full MS stack where some people are stuck on IE8
as they're still on XP.

The people who need it are going to know about it, so why add it in the first
place?

Or start with an empty project and then have to cut and paste a bunch of stuff
you actually need.

And every version they seem to change their mind where the damn error catchers
are going to be. And still not work properly, rely on redirections, etc. Gah.

There's a happy medium which they seem to be having an extremely hard time
getting to. Or I have OCD about pointless code files that I'm not using.
Probably the latter and I'm a small minority of getting frustrated with it.

/rant

I guess at least it's not as bad as before NuGet where they'd include a
version of jQuery which was immediately out of date.

~~~
thisisdog
There is a empty MVC and Webforms project. Your wall of text of rant is
basically due to your own ignorance. The option for empty project is there. I
can't figure how anyone can miss it.

~~~
mattmanser
But the empty one has nothing in it. I want the happy middle, not EVERYTHING
or NOTHING.

So not my ignorance as you delightfully say to a person with probably vastly
more experience than you, but my frustration. I would actually like to see the
way they think you should do things with each new version.

~~~
shanselman
There is one called "basic" that is your happy middle:
[http://i.imgur.com/gIllZf5.png](http://i.imgur.com/gIllZf5.png)

~~~
mattmanser
Well, now I feel silly.

