
Private Mossad for Hire - iron0013
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/02/18/private-mossad-for-hire
======
manjana
And then again.. This would be the ideal psy-op, especially this time with
governmental shutdowns in the USA. What sources are truly reliable now a days,
whomst has no agenda to advance and no agenda to push...

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abalone
Spoiler: the op backfires and actually increases public outrage over these
naked manipulation tactics, resulting in a massive electoral victory for the
target.

I feel like the same thing may be happening with BDS. The naked attempts to
smear and dox college kids is just shining a light on these shady tactics that
right-wing Israel activists have employed for years.

~~~
devoply
There should be as much outrage over Israeli meddling in domestic politics as
there is in Russian meddling in domestic politics. Sure Israel is not a
competitor to the US and so Israel meddling only affects countries, people, or
groups not friendly to Israel or Israeli companies supplying tech to
dictators, it's still something that should be concerning for affecting the
process of democracy and for general world peace.

~~~
abalone
There's a difference that's important to understand. U.S. support for Israel's
aggressive policies is not a result of Israeli "meddling" or even the domestic
"Israel lobby". Those things would never be permitted over so many decades if
there wasn't a bipartisan U.S. geopolitical objective to begin with: namely,
to have a strong Western-aligned military ally to project power over the
region.

For comparison, Russia is nothing like that kind of client state ally, and
support for their meddling is a fairly recent and specific case and not likely
to last.

~~~
Udik
> U.S. support for Israel's aggressive policies is not a result of Israeli
> "meddling" or even the domestic "Israel lobby". Those things would never be
> permitted over so many decades if there wasn't a bipartisan U.S.
> geopolitical objective to begin with

A successful lobby will of course convince its targets- politicians, but the
entire public opinion when necessary- that its objectives coincide with their
objectives. Mearsheimer and Walt, in their famous "the Israel lobby" argued
that "no [other] lobby has managed to divert U.S. foreign policy as far from
what the American national interest would otherwise suggest, while
simultaneously convincing Americans that U.S. and Israeli interests are
essentially identical".

In fact, have you ever thought exactly _how_ would the interests of Israel
coincide with those of the US?

~~~
abalone
The idea that an "all-powerful small ethnic Jewish lobby" can trick the
corporate elite of America for decades to do things against their interests
is, putting aside its anti-semitic implications, utterly ridiculous. It is a
way of deflecting blame away from the U.S. government itself.[1]

The strategic interests are obvious: Israel is one of the largest military
powers in the middle east and a means to project U.S. power over it. This was
observed by the Pentagon as early as the late 1940s.[2] This is why the U.S.
has given so much financial, military and diplomatic aid to Israel, one of the
effects of which has been to build up its tech industry.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds7c3gOf2_I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds7c3gOf2_I)

[2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUQ_0MubbcM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUQ_0MubbcM)

~~~
Udik
> The idea ... is, putting aside its anti-semitic implications, utterly
> ridiculous.

And yet it's what any other lobby does. Let's just clear a first point: the
lobby exists. It has websites:

[https://www.aipac.org/](https://www.aipac.org/)

And it's not just made of "ethnic jews":

[https://www.cufi.org/](https://www.cufi.org/)

As for the strategic interest, it might have been obvious at the beginning of
Israel, now not so much. Let me remind you that Israel is an aggressive state
in contravention of international law since many decades, with a history of
ethnic cleansing [1] and apartheid [2], and that such practices are drivers of
instability and violence in the region, and that supporting and defending them
has a political and military cost. The 9/11 attacks and the subsequent "war on
terror" were part of this costs, as stated clearly by the perpetrators of the
attacks. [3]

Have a read of this article by a former US ambassador in the region, that
discusses the reality of the strategic value and "US power projection"
provided by Israel to the US:

[https://www.wrmea.org/010-september-october/what-they-
said-t...](https://www.wrmea.org/010-september-october/what-they-said-the-big-
lie-that-israel-is-a-strategic-asset-for-the-united-states.html)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ethnic_Cleansing_of_Palest...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ethnic_Cleansing_of_Palestine)
[2]
[https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/13/palest...](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/13/palestinians-
still-face-apartheid-israel-25-years-after-oslo-accord) [3]
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver)

~~~
abalone
The United States has never had a problem supporting aggressive states in
contravention of international law with a history of ethnic cleansing and
apartheid. It is itself such a state.

From the perspective of U.S. planners there are both costs and benefits to
aggressively projecting power over the middle east (and for that matter the
rest of the world). You've only identified the costs. You omit the perceived
benefits and implicitly exaggerate the influence of a small, (primarily)
ethnic domestic lobby.

That is like saying the Roman empire was a bad idea because it obviously would
lead to collapse--true--but instead of chalking it up to outsized imperialism
by the Romans themselves you blame some like Mesopotamian lobbyists for
overextending it.

~~~
Udik
> a history of ethnic cleansing and apartheid. It is itself such a state.

Well, you tried to score an easy win there. (1)

But Israel is engaging in such oppression _now_ , we're not talking about a
remote past. We're talking about very public and vociferous support for the
very public actions of a democratic state- a state on whose policies the
citizens have control through democratic elections and knowledge through
public opinion.

> aggressively projecting power

It's the third time you use the expression "projecting power" in a handwavy
fashion, without explaining what you mean in detail. I've linked in my
previous comment the opinion of a former US ambassador, arguing that this
supposed "power projection" amounts to nil. I was expecting some counter-
arguments.

I'll paste an excerpt here:

"It's useful to recall what we generally expect allies and strategic partners
to do for us. In Europe, Asia, and elsewhere in the Middle East, they provide
bases and support the projection of American power beyond their borders. They
join us on the battlefield in places like Kuwait and Afghanistan or underwrite
the costs of our military operations. They help recruit others to our
coalitions. They coordinate their foreign aid with ours. Many defray the costs
of our use of their facilities with "host nation support" that reduces the
costs of our military operations from and through their territory. They store
weapons for our troops', rather than their own troops', use. They pay cash for
the weapons we transfer to them.

Israel does none of things and shows no interest in doing them. Perhaps it
can't. It is so estranged from everyone else in the Middle East that no
neighboring country will accept flight plans that originate in or transit it.
Israel is therefore useless in terms of support for American power
projection."

-

1- As an aside, I understand that there might be a fundamental contradiction
in the minds of the freedom and independence-loving Americans: while they
repeal and condemn ethnic cleansing and oppression of native populations by
superior force, they also somehow must accept its eventual historical outcome,
as they are themselves that outcome.

~~~
abalone
You are being obstinate. I cited a couple extensive discussions of the matter
backed by voluminous scholarly work, compared to your one ambassador to Saudi
Arabia. You promptly ignored them. Israel is literally the only nuclear power
in the middle east and they are essentially a client state of the U.S. They
have helped destroy secular Arab nationalism (e.g. 1967) which was/is the
greatest threat to U.S. control of the region. There is intelligence
collaboration. There are internal U.S. planning documents going back to the
1940s demonstrating the perceived military value in supporting Israel.

The existence of dissenting voices within the establishment proves nothing.
There are always hawks & doves that debate the costs & benefits of policies.
It's as shabby an argument as the notion that a relatively small Jewish lobby
could "trick" U.S. corporate powers that be into doing something against their
perceived interests for decades.

~~~
Udik
> You are being obstinate. I cited a couple extensive discussions of the
> matter backed by voluminous scholarly work

Hm? Sorry, I think I missed them. I can only see two videos of Noam Chomsky.

> and they are essentially a client state of the U.S

This is what you are trying to prove. I haven't heard a single argument or
seen a single good reference yet.

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HillaryBriss
what cracks me up about this story is that the voters triumphed simply because
they were oblivious to the internet's lies

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gammateam
With so many separate distinct groups trying to influence US voting, all we
have is an election.

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barbecue_sauce
Like Uber, but for Mossad.

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qrbLPHiKpiux
The enemy within. Our government has plants all over the place. I guarantee
it. The law of averages says so.

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notahacker
The reassuring bit is how remarkably useless this whole operation sounds -
basically cargo cult Trumpism. Bet they could have hired a couple of local
high school kids to run a more dirty tricks campaign that had more salience
with the local population than a presidential campaign knockoff.

(edit: am really interested to know who thinks the draintulareswamp.com
websites and questioning the ancestry of a Hispanic candidate in a 60%
Hispanic town and resulting electoral defeat by an >80% margin was doing an
effective job...)

