
I was in the MAPS MDMA for PTSD study - anythingnonidin
https://www.psymposia.com/magazine/maps-mdma-ptsd-study-freed-childhood-abuse/
======
cnp
Every time articles like this appear on Hacker News it fills me with joy. I
have personally watched a much older person heal extensive personal trauma
with just one MDMA session, and to this day I regard it as a miracle that
seemed impossible prior to the treatment.

MAPS is just entering into their Stage III research process after being
granted a "breakthrough therapy" by the FDA
([https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fda-designates-mdma-as-
breakthr...](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fda-designates-mdma-as-breakthrough-
therapy-for-ptsd/)) and need all the funds they can muster. The tech community
can really step up here. If you have it in you, donate what you can:
[https://store.maps.org/np/clients/maps/donation.jsp?campaign...](https://store.maps.org/np/clients/maps/donation.jsp?campaign=11)

~~~
parasight
What is an MDMA session?

~~~
cnp
When a patient sits with a therapist under the influence of MDMA, which
typically consists of two doses (100-120mg initially, then 70mg a few hours
later) spread over an 6-8 hour period. The patient is largely experiencing
their own internal process, but at times the therapist is there to help guide
and comfort. Before and after the session there is conventional
psychotherapeutic follow-up.

~~~
yesbabyyes
Is it possible to do this, today, anywhere in the world (without getting into
a study, which seems hard, especially in another country)? I am looking for
help for somebody close to me.

~~~
bdamm
Only if you know a willing therapist.

~~~
yesbabyyes
Thanks bdamm. Yes, in particular, I am looking for pointers to that, I
suppose. Perhaps, somewhere there is one and we could travel there.

~~~
pizza
I don't have any references for you but this interview with a psychiatrist who
would use MDMA with his patients (and LSD) when he deemed it beneficial is
interesting.

~~~
yesbabyyes
Thanks pizza - you seem to lack the "forgot to post link"-extension ;)

No, really, I am interested. Please share. Thanks.

~~~
pizza
Wooooops
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0ZvZAG_XRg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0ZvZAG_XRg)

------
WhitneyLand
For decades, there has been a near complete effective block on medical
research for certain classes of drugs. Timothy Leary and that kind of 60’s
stuff chilled legitimate science. Only recently have small changes started to
happen, to the point the government, the flipping FDA, has started to think
Ectasy (MDMA) might be a viable treatment for some of our most horrible mental
illnesses.

So many people wonder when science will let us do things. When will we land on
the moon, when will we cure cancer (most cancer anyway, a handful have been
effectively cured), when will all of mankind benefit from the next great
insights? We ask this yet in a lot of ways, we won’t even open our minds
enough to give it our best shot.

How much can x, mushrooms, ketamine et al really change devastated lives for
the better under the right conditions? We may never know.

I fully respect the opinion of people who say these drugs shouldn’t ever be
used, or that disagree with me on any issue in general. But I will never
respect someone who doesn’t want to know the answers and the data.

It happens with drugs, gun control, so many political issues, people actually
do not want, and even work against collection of, objective data. Of course of
any given data set can be biased or flawed, and that has nothing to do with
getting the best data you can, iterating, and improving it.

If we are opposed to something, it’s ostensibly for a reason right? Why would
we ever not want to strengthen our argument, or discard it, based on better
understanding of our “reason”?

~~~
tome
> For decades, there has been a near complete effective block on medical
> research for certain classes of drugs.

In the US. One wonders why such a study wasn't carried out in a less puritan
country.

~~~
metalliqaz
It's because the real reason that testing these drugs is illegal isn't USA
puritan values/laws. It's because they aren't patented.

The synthetic opioids that drug companies are dumping on the population these
days are many times more dangerous, but they make a profit for big companies,
so they are legal.

Powerful drug companies influence research worldwide. They want no competition
from drugs that would be generic from day one.

edit: missing words

~~~
PeterisP
This is a big issue. Clinical studies to get a chemical approved for
therapeutical use are _very_ expensive, and since most of the chemicals were
first explored a _long_ time ago, they can't be patented anymore, so no
pharmaceutical company would fund the studies since they won't be able to be
the sole provider of that drug (at a premium cost), and public funding for
clinical studies is quite low.

~~~
refurb
There is nothing stopping them from making a patentable analogue. Happens a
lot right now.

~~~
joecool1029
Well, except for this:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Analogue_Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Analogue_Act)

~~~
refurb
Meh... that already isn't a barrier. Analogues of heroin (fentanyl, etc) are
legitimate Rx drugs today.

------
pdfernhout
From a comment elsewhere by "Brian" on moving past psychological trauma:
[http://www.hughhowey.com/our-silos-leak/](http://www.hughhowey.com/our-silos-
leak/) "Cognitive behavioral therapists don’t even bother trying to figure out
the why — because when most people get their so-called “epiphany” explaining
why they’re feeling so badly, the knowledge doesn’t give them any clue as to
how to feel better and be happy. All they know is, X and Y and Z happened to
me many moons ago, and that’s why I feel like crap now. But what do I actually
do about it? Bandler and Grinder figured it out forty plus years ago during
the infancy of NLP too: focus on what you want, focus on what makes you happy,
model people who are successful and happy and voila …. you’ll move in that
direction too. Like you said above, Hugh, thinking about something that
bothers you over and over is just another way of reexperiencing the pain and
torment. Unless you’re coming at the memory from a fresh perspective, it’s
like rubbing salt in the wound."

So, if a drug like MDMA helps someone see a memory from a fresh perspective,
maybe it could help? But otherwise, the general advice above seems useful.

------
ArchReaper
It's a shame that it took so long before we started to truly study the
positive uses/effects of drugs like MDMA and Psilocybin. I wonder how long it
will take society to really drop the "DARE/DRUGS ARE BAD" mentality and start
having more rational discussions about this stuff.

~~~
striking
IIRC, DARE had a slight opposite effect in communities where it was pushed
hardest.

~~~
dragonwriter
In the studies I've seen, DARE had _no measurable effect_ on either attitudes
toward or use of drugs, and a slight effect of promotibg a positive view of
law enforcement.

So, functionally, it's pro-police PR sold to parents and voters as an anti-
drug program.

------
Alex3917
If anyone is interested in learning more about this stuff, the annual Horizons
conference is this weekend in NYC:

[http://www.horizonsnyc.org](http://www.horizonsnyc.org)

And there will most likely be a MAPS event on Saturday night as well. I'm not
going this year, but in previous years they've always been good.

~~~
anythingnonidin
Yes: MAPS is hosting a benefit dinner for psychedelic research on Saturday
(tomorrow) night [http://www.maps.org/nyc2017](http://www.maps.org/nyc2017)

------
maxxxxx
Is there a way to do this in the US or other countries in half ways safe
manner? I would be very interested but the people I know who trip regularly
don't seem responsible enough for my taste.

~~~
brockwhittaker
In the US find a dealer or the dark web, you can buy test kits to test for
pure MDMA (Molly), to ensure it’s not mixed with things. Ecstasy can otherwise
be mixed with opiates or uppers like speed.

I know a lot of pretty responsible users of MDMA (most use during festivals).
It’s also best to not do it more than once a month as it’ll significantly
decrease the effects.

It’s also important to be mindful that in days following the high may come a
low where you feel more depressed than usual. This is due to the low seratonin
levels your brain will have after you increased them to levels you’ve likely
never reached before.

I also wouldn’t consider MDMA a “trip” per se. At doses like 80-120mg you will
be fully mentally able, you’ll just have rose colored glasses on (a fondness
for everyone and everything).

Otherwise some other tips are to chew gum as most people have an oral fixation
on MDMA and you don’t want to grind your teeth. I hear taking Magnesium before
helps as well though I haven’t personally researched that.

~~~
maxxxxx
I don't know about MDMA in particular but over the last years I have seen two
times the effect of trips gone wrong. Interestingly both involved women
ripping off their clothes (seriously!) and running around screaming at the top
of their lungs for hours. One especially was alone in the middle of the LA
National Forest hours away from civilization next to pretty big cliffs. I just
happened to hike by and could hear her for miles. I never do drugs so I just
want to make sure I have someone close who knows what he/she is doing and can
handle the situation if I respond weirdly.

~~~
gnahckire
Personally I wouldn't call taking MDMA tripping.

Also, those don't really seem like the effects that I have observed others
experience which are:

\- Hypersensitivity to others' emotions

\- Euphoria

\- Relaxation and reduced anxiety

\- Sense of inner peace

------
noddy1
As I get older, so much of what I grew up being totally excited with but which
was considered fringe and counterculture is now being recognized as truly
revolutionary.

I remember as a medical student on placement asking a palliative care
physician about whether they had considered the use of MDMA in end of life
care to provide dying people and their families with a potential method of
spending some really incredible time together. She scoffed at the idea and
continued prescribing the same old crap. 10 years later psychiatrists are
saying the currently MDMA, ketamine and the psychedelics are providing the
most exciting breakthroughs in modern psychiatric drugs in decades.

------
anythingnonidin
If anyone on Hacker News would like a crash course on the history and
potential of psychedelic substances - I cannot recommend the book Acid Test by
Tom Shroder more highly.

Or, for a shorter view, the article Trip Treatment by Michael Pollan:
[https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/09/trip-
treatment](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/09/trip-treatment)

------
ada1981
Check out the book TRUST, SURRENDER, RECEIVE by Anne Other.

It features the history, politics, science and first hand accounts of 40
people who used MDMA for healing PTSD and trauma in an underground practice.

Very powerful book.

Http://bit.ly/mdmabook

------
leyth
Anything that alters since of time in the brain is not really a good idea.

~~~
jMyles
Did you mean "sense" of time?

Lots and lots of seemingly benign things have a serious effect on a person's
sense of time. Some examples:

* Sleep

* Travel

* Cannabis

* Caffeine

* Turkey and red wine

* Video games or other intense visual engagement

* Scuba diving

* Intense cardio workouts

~~~
leyth
We should not compare natural human behavior to a mind altering chemical
substance.

------
maxwer
... until you stop taking the drug.

~~~
ThrustVectoring
Not according to the study. Psychoactive drugs don't just change how you're
feeling for a period of time - they also change how your brain is wired.
That's what addiction _is_ : drugs altering the brain into one that more wants
to take that drug.

Now, MDMA isn't particularly prone to causing addiction. It is prone to
causing lasting changes in how people relate to themselves and others, and a
combination of personal anecdotes and studies suggest it's for the better.

------
moretai
I feel like there has to be a good amount of people in the world who take
psychedelics on a regular basis. At least more so than your average person.
I'd imagine they are still broken, shattered, and lost individuals. Maybe some
people have accessed some secret knowledge on their trips. But for the vast
majority, I doubt that's the case.

I am not saying that there is no benefit, especially for an extreme case like
this. That relief these people get, a chance to exist without the confusion
and pain, and just feel like love.

But the high you get is a distraction from the pain you are feeling. It's not
the taking of MDMA or Psilocybin that fixes the issues. It's the integration.
It's the "lessons" you learn from your experience.

But are you learning, or are you just finally looking at what you didn't want
to all these years? Do you need to take psychedelics to look?

I think we should keep researching, because we should see what is at the end
of this tunnel.

~~~
wavefunction
You sound like you haven't tried either MDMA or mushrooms from reading your
post. I can't speak for everyone but the stuff you think is 'all bullshit'
seems to be pretty common experience even among people who don't know Terrence
McKenna or George Harrison from lil Jeffy Sessions.

And psychedelic use has been deeply ingrained in various human cultures all
over the world for thousands (tens of thousands? hundreds of thousands?) of
years. Taking psychedelics as part of a religious ceremony or ritual to rid
oneself of suffering is part of indigenous traditions in the Americas, Europe,
Africa, Asia and Australia/Oceania.

I'd say the historical traditions and these new studies should convince even
you that there is no fad involved in human psychotropic use.

~~~
moretai
>Taking psychedelics as part of a religious ceremony or ritual to rid oneself
of suffering is part of indigenous traditions in the Americas, Europe, Africa,
Asia and Australia/Oceania.

Could you link me to some research about this? I have heard this talked about,
but I haven't found anything reliable.

~~~
wavefunction
I think this article has some good examples of cultures and traditions you can
google for further info:

[https://www.culturalsurvival.org/publications/cultural-
survi...](https://www.culturalsurvival.org/publications/cultural-survival-
quarterly/hallucinogenic-plants-and-their-use-traditional-societies)

