
The outdoor community made water filtration a must for a reason - hprotagonist
https://www.outsideonline.com/2279401/actually-slate-you-really-should-filter-your-water
======
vhost-
Years ago my friends and I took a trip to the Wallowas in Oregon near the
Idaho border. We were mostly camping backcountry with a few nights at
campgrounds. I filtered my water at the campgrounds, but when we went
backcountry, I was about to just put my bottle in the stream and one of my
friends stopped me and told me to filter it and to never just drink out of a
stream regardless of where you are in the US.

He was from that area and told me that ranchers will let their cattle graze
where ever they want, even on protected federal land, polluting pretty much
every water source and everything downstream. They were very right. We saw
cattle feces everywhere. It was very unsettling.

Edit: I also got giardia at Smith Rock one time and it wasn't fucking
pleasant.

~~~
mcguire
Many ranchers have (scandalously low-priced, but that is another story) leases
to run their cattle on specific federal lands. Cattle drop poop pretty much
everywhere they go. (Weirdly, donkeys apparently collect theirs into big
piles. Oddest thing I've ever seen.) If cow manure is unsettling, you may want
to be careful what parts of the outdoors you visit.

~~~
wavefunction
That's BLM and National Forest lands. Anything beyond that is illegal but you
should still protect yourself from unscrupulous ranchers just as you should
look both ways on a one-way street.

~~~
waterphone
Which is the vast majority of public recreation land in the U.S.

~~~
wavefunction
Yep, and always filter your water there.

I filter or boil my water even at 11,000 feet in altitude where the cattle do
not roam.

------
natecavanaugh
I missed seeing the mentioned article, but I wonder if this is an inevitable
result of the natural fallacy that has taken over Western culture.

Let's all get back to the Earth and live the way many of our ancestors did:
dying off in our youth or dealing with either preventable and crippling
diseases or even just wandering around with weird diseases that just make life
far less enjoyable.

On the one hand, if we were to take this approach, it would speed up natural
selection for us and whatever germs develop to kill us. But for chemicals and
things we do for purification of water supplies, we can at least control the
chemicals and how often we use them, and I have yet heard of a any really
serious bugs that can survive chlorine or just pure heat.

I guess I just can't grok the way people claim to wish to live in the past,
but what they're really describing often is similar to how we would describe
living in a third world. Unless you really believe our feces is cleaner than
most, that unfiltered water your drinking could very well contain the feces of
someone ignorant enough (or a pranking trollish person) to drop a deuce into
the local stream.

And I have a great appreciation for just how blunder headed we can be, so it
wouldn't shock me if and when that'd happen.

And ultimately, what's the real goal of the original article? Is it to make
sure people increase their risk? Or to provide some confirmation bias to those
who will do it either way?

~~~
aaronblohowiak
> I have yet heard of a any really serious bugs that can survive chlorine or
> just pure heat.

prions. not sure if you consider them "bugs" though.

~~~
jjoonathan
Their ability to resist heat has been greatly exaggerated. The kernel of truth
is that some sterilization procedures are insufficient to eliminate them and
that definitive guidelines have not been fully agreed on. Common folklore
translates this into "they are impervious to heat."

~~~
DrScump
Please describe the process by which a prion is rendered harmless at a mere
100C. Denaturing a protein generally requires a lot more.

~~~
SideburnsOfDoom
> Denaturing a protein generally requires a lot more .. than 100C

Nope. Protein generally denatures at lower than 100C / boiling point.

That's the principle of Sous Vide, not that you should use Sous Vide to
sterilise anything, but the protein in egg white denatures at 60-80C.

[http://www.scienceofcooking.com/eggs/eggs_sous_vide.htm](http://www.scienceofcooking.com/eggs/eggs_sous_vide.htm)

And in meat it's similar, 50-70C [http://www.mpip-
mainz.mpg.de/Sous_vide_cooking](http://www.mpip-
mainz.mpg.de/Sous_vide_cooking)

If you doubt it, stick your hand in water at 80C and see what happens.

~~~
aaronblohowiak
Prions don't degrade at the boiling point:
[http://www.microbiologyresearch.org/docserver/fulltext/jgv/8...](http://www.microbiologyresearch.org/docserver/fulltext/jgv/82/2/0820465a.pdf?expires=1518047129&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=5B41A4F4F072CF1011FBADABD6ED4C6E)

~~~
SideburnsOfDoom
Sure, though that's entirely different from the grandparent post's statement
about "Denaturing a protein generally", which happens well below boiling
point.

------
marcoperaza
I hiked over 600 miles of the Appalachian Trail last year, and just about
everyone filtered their water. Bacteria and protozoa[1] in the water can make
you very ill, and even cause longer term health problems if you’re unlucky.

Filtering water in the backcountry is extremely easy with products like the
Sawyer Mini ($25), which you just screw to the top of a standard water bottle
and drink through. It’s stupid to take the risk when the precautions are so
easy and so cheap. And it’s unbelievable that people in civilization, with
abundant access to clean water, would actually pay a premium for dirty water.

Yes, primitive people drank water straight from streams. They built up
resistance to a lot of the pathogens, but they also had lots of parasites and
diseases, and didn’t regularly live into their 80s, so I’m not sure why you’d
model your food and water safety on theirs.

[1] Viruses are a problem in much of the world too. Thankfully, streams in the
US don’t generally have viruses in them, and the most popular filters for
hikers don’t filter out all viruses. But for the extra careful, chlorine
dioxide drops and some pump filters do.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
There's a bit of a trope about how in history everyone died in their 30s from
war or disease.

[http://www.hormones.gr/211/article/article.html](http://www.hormones.gr/211/article/article.html)
concerns Ancient Greece, so not primitive. But, I think you should be cautious
about declaring primitive people as having their lives markedly shortened by
waterborn pathogens; at least cautious enough to be able to cite some strong
evidence?

~~~
marcoperaza
The Ancient Greeks filtered their water and sought out purer water sources.

I didn’t claim that people died in their 30s or that waterborne pathogens were
a major cause of shortened life. The latter certainly seems plausible though.
My point there was only that basing your water sanitation on the habits of
primitive people is obviously misguided.

~~~
NoGravitas
And they also added wine to it, which would kill _some_ bacteria and protozoa.

------
cdnsteve
Lifestraw is a decent emergency filter to have around. You can also use a
SteriPen UV light - which is great. It's light, fast and you can use it on the
go. Scoop up a full Nalgene bottle of untreated water, then treat with
SteriPen. Used both many times camping and on long portages with great
success.

~~~
prawn
I use the Sawyer Mini. Had the SteriPen for one trip but didn't like the
reliance on batteries, worrying about getting them recharged, etc. Had one
hike where our batteries went dead in the cold overnight and we had to rely on
meeting someone on the trail and borrowing their filter.

~~~
jcoffland
I use a SteriPen but spend the extra money on non-rechargable Lithium
batteries. They are way lighter, pack more power and hold their charge for
years. I bring two sets in case one runs out which has yet to happen on my
week long backpacking trips.

~~~
prawn
Do they suffer in the cold though? At this point, in cold weather I already
have in my sleeping bag: phone, iPad (drone controller), Anker battery packs,
etc.

------
rusbus
The thing I found hilarious: "You'd need to drink more than 7 liters of it to
get sick"

That is a completely reasonable amount of water to drink on a camping trip...

~~~
hvidgaard
My issue with this, is not so much the number, but if I can get sick from 7L,
I can get sick from a single sip as well, it's just not very probable.

------
davidw
There's a reason that "You have died of dysentery" is a thing.

~~~
wand3r
Because heroes travel the Trail at a grueling pace instead of steady which
runs down the party and increases the chances of illness.

------
deadghost
I caught giardia and who knows what else while I was in India for a year. I
had diarrhea 10+ times a day for over a month, vomited a few times, bloated
and lactose intolerant for over a year, and two years on I'm still not feeling
100% even after taking over 100 pills to nuke everything.

You might be lucky and not be too affected by this stuff but it's not
something to mess around with.

------
js2
HN discussion on the Slate article:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16285322](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16285322)

------
tannhaeuser
Not to mention the alarming levels of antibiotics in animal feed such that you
get in contact with resistant bacteria by merely swimming in lakes. In fact,
even Colistin and Colistin-resistant mutants were recently found (Colistin
being put on the RESERVE level by WHO, to be used for humans only, and as last
resort).

------
Hasz
Between the effectiveness of chlorine and the simplicity of a pump, there's
just no way I'm going to save ~8oz for the risk of explosive diarrhea. Having
both diarrhea and having to walk back t the trail head to get help would be an
awful combination.

~~~
ghaff
Pumps may be simple but I’ve heard experts in outdoor gear question whether
filters are reliable. They can develop micro cracks and therefore invisible
failure modes. Now, low failure rate plus low incidence of ineffective in the
water multiply to low risk. But they’re not perfect. It’s also very easy to
get a degree of cross-contamination.

Personally I mostly use iodine and boiling though I do have a pump. I’d
consider getting a steripen though.

------
gao8a
I feel like drinking unpurified water out of desperation is a tale you'll
eventually hear from people that've been outdoors a lot. It will either end
unpleasantly or with extreme emphasis on how lucky they were that it didn't
end unpleasantly.

~~~
hprotagonist
I think i heard this on "Survivorman", but also from many thru-hiker friends.

Dying of dehydration is a whole lot faster than giardiasis. If you're in a
survival situation and are reasonably sure of a rescue in less than 14 days,
go ahead and drink that water! Otherwise, don't.

~~~
loeg
Yep. If you're dehydrated because you didn't bring adequate water or a filter,
and drinking unfiltered water will get you to civilization (trailhead, car,
etc), it is better to have giardia (in a few hours) than to be dead.

------
braindongle
From my pithy mentor: "There are no randomized controlled trials demonstrating
the efficacy of parachutes." Similar logic here.

------
jrgaston
I've heard too many giardia testimonials to risk drinking
unfiltered/unpurified water while hiking in the US west.

~~~
dade_
Growing up in western Canada we were warned against an awful illness Beaver
Fever, which is a catchy name for it.

------
floren
A Sawyer filter is quite small and costs $20, there's no reason not to filter.

~~~
sna1l
Yeah I'm not really getting the reason for caring whether it is likely to get
sick from unfiltered water or not. Why not just always filter? (Assuming cost
is low)

~~~
loeg
The main reason people don't like filtering is because it takes time.

~~~
marcoperaza
Which isn't a problem with a Sawyer filter, because you can just screw it to
the top of the water bottle and drink through it.

------
toomanybeersies
In my experience, it all depends on location.

I know people who have been drinking unfiltered stream water for 20 years with
no ill effects. The key is to make sure that the water doesn't pass through
any human inhabited areas.

~~~
w8rbt
There may not be humans or cattle around, but all sorts of wild animals
defecate, urinate, procreate, etc. in water. Treat the water (boil, filter,
pills, etc.) before using it and you'll be OK.

~~~
toomanybeersies
It's a case of balancing risk I guess.

If I'm in an area where there aren't poison drops and where there is no human
interference, I'll take the risk. Outdoor activities are inherently risky.

~~~
yathern
Just because there is an inherent level of risk involved in an activity
doesn't imply you shouldn't mitigate some risk if you can.

Driving is inherently risky - but I still wear a seatbelt.

~~~
toomanybeersies
I've come close enough to dying in the outdoors in other ways that I'm not
concerned about getting the small chance of getting the shits from drinking
from a stream that I'm 99.9% sure is safe.

------
pfarnsworth
Does this have anything to do with that "raw water" nonsense from 2 weeks ago?
The idea that you wouldn't want to clean your water is absolutely insane to
me.

~~~
toomanybeersies
What gets to me with the "raw water" thing is that people are willing to pay
so much money for untreated water, literally thousands of times what it would
cost public water, and there's millions of people all over the world who are
suffering and dying because all they can afford to drink is "raw water".

There's something so perverse, so fucked up, about the elitism of the people
drinking this (literally) shitty water.

------
hammock
Anecdote, we drank unfiltered water from a melt pool on a glacier and were
fine. Glacial melt pools are probably some of the only places on earth anymore
where you can do that. Two days later, only 2000 feet below the glacier, a
girl with us drank unfiltered water from a river and got sick

~~~
BurningFrog
Yeah, melting snow is basically pure rainwater.

~~~
jcoffland
Have you ever seen that pink bacteria that grows on snow at elevation? Snow
melt is likely safe but definitely not bacteria free.

~~~
jcoffland
[https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/artful-
amoeba/wonderful...](https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/artful-
amoeba/wonderful-things-dont-eat-the-pink-snow/)

------
Mc_Big_G
The original article suggesting to never filter water is just plain idiotic.
Decisions about safety can come down to a risk vs. reward analysis.

Risk: Horrible diarrhea for possibly months (worse consequences for children)

Reward: Save 5 minutes of time and $1-$30 not filtering water and you get to
act superior to people who filter

Seriously? Not filtering is just stupid.

------
ecpottinger
My cabin was on a very clean lake, but one year my friend canoed to the far
end of the lake to find a dead deer in the water.

The deer was not there the year before but anyone drink the water that year
better treat the water first.

~~~
djrogers
One dead deer in a large body of water is not enough to worry about - imagine
the biomass of dead fish in the lake by way of comparison...

------
oblib
I still drink out of some of our creeks and springs in our NF areas when
backpacking and hiking in the Ozarks. You have to know the terrain and what's
on and around it to do that though. I've never gotten sick from that here.

I did the same back in the `70-80s in the Sequoia NF. I was taught by old
timers there when I was a kid to take your water where it was running clear
over rock and sand, not from still pools, and take a good look upstream and
around you for carcasses or other contaminants.

I've still never seen a carcass near where I decided to take a drink, but I
always look.

------
p3llin0r3
A few months ago I spent a week hiking through the Cordillera Blanca mountain
range with 6 other people. We ALL got diarrhea at some point, it was
absolutely brutal.

I'm going to continue filtering my water.

------
diebir
Not necessarily "filtration" but rather "treatment". There are a number of
various chemical treatments that can be used. For clear water I use MSR water
treatment tablets (chlorine dioxide?), for seriously muddy and dirty water I
rely on my partner's filter. We walked over 500 miles of desert in Utah and
Arizona, the water tends to be very hard to come by and what's available is
often contaminated by cattle, etc. Water treatment is a must.

------
bryanrasmussen
So, it seems to me that Slate's contrariness might be an opening to a big
lawsuit if someone acts on it and gets a debillitating infection.

------
dannylandau
I go hiking in Conundrum in Aspen, and never filter water once I'm above a
certain elevation. As long as there are no beaver dams above, I feel safe to
do so.

~~~
bdhess
Hopefully above the hot spring that everyone bathes in? Still that trail has
way too much human traffic for me to consider drinking unfiltered.

------
XR0CSWV3h3kZWg
Similarly: wear your seatbelt. Almost every single car ride I have been on
didn't need it, but you don't know you needed it till it's too late.

~~~
Jtsummers
2 stories:

A friend's grandfather never wore his seatbelt. He was in fine health. One
day, they rear ended someone. He was in the back seat and died because he was
essentially thrown underneath the driver's seat. Had he been wearing a
seatbelt he may have been injured, and given his age it may have been severe,
but he would have lived. No one else in the car was seriously hurt (all
wearing seatbelts).

Two weeks ago a driver decided to do a U-turn from the right lane. I was in
the left lane. I was spun around from the impact. While I am injured, because
of the seatbelt it's just whiplash and other soft tissue injuries. If I hadn't
been wearing my seatbelt I know I would've been tossed around inside the
cabin, or I would have had to tense up more to maintain my position in the
seat. Either would have resulted in more severe injuries.

These are relatively uncommon events. You cannot control the driver of your
vehicle screwing up and hitting someone. And as a driver you cannot prevent
others from hitting you in every case. Seatbelts may be uncomfortable (though
after 35+ years I don't notice anymore), but 20 minutes or a few hours of
discomfort are worth it to prevent life changing or life ending injuries.

~~~
Zigurd
I can tell you firsthand that seatbelts prevent injury. I was recently in a
wreck where the driver overcooked a turn in the wet on the off-ramp from the
Mass Pike to 128 We hit the guard rail on the inside of the turn once or
twice, and the concrete barrier on the outside of the turn twice, including
head-on at the end of our spin-out. Either the driver or I or some object
hurled forward between the seats folded my phone in half, which was sitting in
a narrow pocket in the center console. I sprained a finger on the door handle.
I would surely have hit my head more than once on the windshield and side
glass had I not been belted in.

Once out of the car we could tell it was quite a wreck: the engine was pushed
in and the whole front end crumpled. The front wheels were destroyed. Both
sides of the back were rounded off. The doors opened with some difficulty. The
smell of airbag propellant makes me think it must be similar to model rocket
propellant.

------
fitzroy
Always boil the water.

Source: Binge watching 7 seasons of Naked and Afraid.

------
mitchtbaum
Air too..

Cheaply: Indoor water feature and ultrasonic fogging with electrochemically
activated "acid" cleaning water.

------
ars
> ..... caught chronic giardiasis ..... weightloss....

Wait, so you're telling me I can loose weight by drinking unfiltered water?

~~~
freeone3000
Yep! All your body weight will simply leave through your anus!

------
jdminhbg
I don't drink unfiltered water, but I am a little skeptical of all the stories
about unfiltered water making people sick: What percentage of them actually
got sick from improper personal hygiene? How many tainted water cases are
actually self-inflicted E. coli cases?

------
georgeecollins
Anecdote is not data, but ok, here is an anecdote: When I was a boy scout
growing up in the Bay Area we would camp in the mountains for a weekend or
even as long as a week. We filled our canteens in any clean looking fast
running stream. Everybody did that and they were fine. Sure it is possible
this has gotten more dangerous but I am inclined to believe the paranoia has
increased faster than the danger.

~~~
tdb7893
I think the issue is that it's hard to know which sources are actually safe
and part of the reason people are so serious about disinfecting water is that
it's generally just so easy

~~~
ovao
Easy, inexpensive, lightweight and effective. With many things, you'd have to
choose only between two or three of these attributes, but with water
filtration, there are — practically speaking — no drawbacks.

Given this, it's a total no-brainer to err reasonably on the safe side when it
comes to natural water sources, in my opinion.

