

In Seattle, a Sinking Feeling About a Troubled Tunnel - wallflower
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/10/us/in-seattle-a-sinking-feeling-about-a-troubled-tunnel.html

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hga
" _That was when the machine’s bearings became clogged with grit after digging
only about 10 percent of a two-mile highway tunnel beneath downtown._ "

Perhaps. Perhaps more significant is that (all this from memory when I did
some research after learning about this Charlie Foxtrot) the machine failed 3
days after it chewed through the steel casing of well _sunk and then left
there by the same state government org that 's running the whole project_.

Almost needless to say, they didn't tell anyone about this minor detail for a
month. And while no one was talking when I checked, it's obviously very
questionable this will be covered under Hitachi's warranty coverage.

Another minor detail is that that state org, their transportation department
or whatever, has a wonderful financial setup for this project. Well, for them,
anyway. They're paying a fixed amount, and the city will have to cover any
overages. Which at this point look to be substantial, I think they'll have
blown through the project's ~$48 million reserve by now.

Oh, and that earthquake damaged viaduct? Estimates are that if the tunneling
or other activities like this rescue cause it to drop by 2 inches (1 more than
the hopefully local drop reported in this article), they'll have to close it.

~~~
pyrocat
A downright prescient 2010 article from Seattle's local alternative newspaper
[http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/what-could-possibly-go-
wr...](http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/what-could-possibly-go-
wrong/Content?oid=4399657)

~~~
timr
That's not especially meaningful -- if there's a hipster-reactionary position
to be taken on construction projects, the Stranger will take it.

The Stranger has a long history of fighting losing fights to keep things more-
or-less the same -- unless the alternative is trendy and/or guaranteed not to
impact Capitol Hill. For example, they'd prefer that the viaduct be replaced
with a "surface boulevard" that has a fraction of the throughput, thus all but
guaranteeing decades of gridlock in downtown Seattle (which they like because
it "discourages driving", because they heard that San Francisco did it...and
most importantly, because it doesn't affect their lives either way).

Meanwhile, they complain _constantly_ about light rail on the hill, but they
campaigned heavily for the monorail-to-nowhere. Why? Because it was a monorail
(cool!), and the construction wouldn't affect their favorite neighborhood
(even better!)

Point being, it's not difficult to pull an article from the Stranger
predicting doom for a major urban planning initiative. That's practically
their stock in trade.

~~~
pyrocat
You apparently really don't like the Stranger, but that article is incredibly
well researched and reasoned. Lots of valid points that are vindicated in
retrospect. The only other notable papers in Seattle (Times + Weekly) do a
piss poor job of covering government accountability.

~~~
timr
I like the Stranger fine as an alt-weekly, but I give them basically no
credence on matters like this.

It isn't especially challenging to come up with ways that big projects might
fail. The point is, they'll whistle past the graveyard (Monorail!) or dwell on
every conceivable negative outcome (Tunnel!) depending on which approach
serves their purpose.

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ChuckMcM
Tunnel Boring machines (TBMs) fascinate me. A machine that is part excavator,
part factory, part structural support. And generally custom made for every
job, wicked expensive, and by all accounts very high maintenance. Seemingly
only "slightly" better than just digging the hole the old fashioned way with
sand hogs and trucks.

Given their nature, I have always wondered whether or not it would be possible
to use the excavating end as a 'portal' to manually excavate in the case of
breakdown, such that you could get to the "outside" of a damaged TBM but
clearly that isn't a design feature (the Swiss needed to get to theirs as well
as I recall on their tunnel project through the Alps. That we got a pair under
the English channel seems amazing.

~~~
RyJones
I looked into buying a used 24" TBM, turns out it's quite affordable to buy
one, use it for a project, and sell it. It can be much cheaper than trenching.

Project didn't move forward. Pity.

~~~
g8oz
How much was it?

~~~
RyJones
I don't remember the price of the TBM itself, but it was going to be about
$300,000 to put in the tunnel. That includes purchase and resale of the TBM.
Prices for used TBMs seem to be mostly measured in meters drilled, so if
you're only putting a kilometer onto a drill with five, you're not going to
hurt the value much.

------
civilian
This article is 4 years old, written before the tunnel project started, but it
clearly lays out the risks. Not only in building the actual tunnel, but also
that the city of Seattle (of which I'm a happy resident) is on the hook for
any cost overruns. [http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/what-could-possibly-go-
wr...](http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/what-could-possibly-go-
wrong/Content?oid=4399657)

Search for the section that starts with "The tunnel-boring machine gets stuck"
to read Dominic's assessment of TBM risks.

~~~
theophrastus
ah gawdbless TheStranger (particularly prior to Dominic's curious departure)
but the city is-not/will-not be on the hook for costs associated with the
tunnel, overrun or otherwise. It's a state route (as a parallel part of state
route 99), it's a state project, it was approved on the state level with only
the most superficial approval of the city.

~~~
hga
Every source I've read about the project says the city is responsible for
overruns. The author goes into the exact details of how this is so, even
quoting language from the law and how it might be interpreted.

~~~
theophrastus
Nevertheless everything written down and filed with the city attorney
respectfully belies Dominic and his faithful echo chamber on this particular
issue.

~~~
hga
Rather obviously this is going to be subject to litigation, and you didn't
have to tell me the above for me to know what the city's position will be ^_^!

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devindotcom
One of several reasons I voted against this stupid tunnel!

~~~
genwin
It could hardly have been more obvious that the cut and cover option (trench
with a lid "tunnel") was the best choice for the public.

~~~
mjt0229
I was never convinced that the city needed anything more than a surface
street. It's a little dicey putting any tunnel there against the waterfront in
landfill in an earthquake-prone area. Moreover, it was never clear that the
traffic patterns would have been improved by any sort of tunnel option. The
whole thing always had the feel of a land grab for real estate developers,
too. On top of that, a tunnel was really the worst for Seattle since it
wouldn't help anyone get into or out of downtown, just _through_ downtown.

~~~
genwin
I didn't support a surface street because it would have stop lights, in which
case it wouldn't begin to replace the viaduct. (For some reason the US can't
have Germany-style streets that dip below cross streets.)

> The whole thing always had the feel of a land grab for real estate
> developers, too.

Yep. A quote from the NYT article:

> “They’re talking about greenbelts and all that, but I think it’s a bunch of
> baloney,” he said. “I think it’s going to be all condominiums.”

I agree, the project is mainly about $700K 1-bedroom condos.

~~~
RyJones
$700k would be a steal in Seattle for a waterfront condo.

~~~
genwin
For a 1 bedroom? Wow, guess I'm out of the loop on that.

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mikeytown2
Seattle's Tunnel Project is cursed
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgIeuSlKQ3w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgIeuSlKQ3w)
(1:19 sketch comedy)

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Shivetya
Guess they never meet too expensive of a government project up there, Seattle
was spending 625 million per mile on another tunnel (3.1 miles of it) for
light rail extension.

Insanity all around.

~~~
koenigdavidmj
Sound Transit's project, an extension of the Central Link tunnel north to the
UW, is ahead of schedule and under budget. Most of us in the city are happy to
give them more money since they succeed at their job.

