

Venezuela's Chavez calls for Internet controls - miked
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62D05I20100314

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Kilimanjaro
One trillion dollars over ten years, just in oil sales, have been stolen by
unscrupulous thugs who control the three branches of government and do
whatever they please with total impunity.

It is such a shame, being the latin saudis, and having brought the country to
such a deplorable state.

They had a chance and they blew it, now all they're doing is robbing as much
as they can while assuring themselves in power forever in order to avoid being
judged by international courts for all the crimes they have committed in all
these years.

More than 100,000 deaths at the hands of government-sponsored killers, more
than the afghan and iraq wars together.

The perfect definition of Kleptocracy.

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MikeCapone
The Economist has great coverage of what is taking place in Venezuela. There's
almost not a week that passes without Chavez closing down a TV station or
taking over some private businesses because, f.ex., they raised prices after
he devaluated the country's currency by half.

~~~
dantheman
It's the classic socialist play carrying itself out -- the ultimate end is
death and destruction. Hopefully the Venezuelans will recognize what's going
on and be able to stop it.

~~~
andrewcooke
From what I've read (I'm afraid I don't have references, and reports vary
wildly, this is just my synthesis, following the news fairly closely, as I
live in S America) he's doing about average. The country is seeing gains in
certain areas (health expectancy, literacy), but they seem to be (within the
uncertainties I listed earlier) about what you'd expect from any country that
has a sudden boost in (oil related) income.

I say all that to basically explain that it's unlikely he will collapse any
time soon.

He's certainly a populist leader, which I find personally distasteful. And he
has little respect for free speech or democracy, which is even worse (from my
POV). But I think we're also understanding that the "western model" isn't that
great either (articles of evidence: (1) the recent financial fiasco; (2)
China).

[Edit: I feel I am not really contributing much except uncertainty here. So
here's a more decisive take: the biggest problem facing S American politics
is, in my opinion, corruption. The kind of approach that Chavez uses
encourages corruption and so should be resisted. On the other hand - more
uncertainty - most alternatives (particularly military law - this is a _big_
lesson from Chile) also encourage corruption. And, wow, downvoted already...
some passive aggressive cunt who hasn't bothered to explain why. What a
surprise...]

~~~
berntb
I would have up voted you, if you hadn't used the term "cunt".

~~~
ErrantX
As an aside (and purely for my own interest) is that because you consider that
word particularly offensive - or just because of the whole tone of that p.s?

I ask because I'm noticing that while people seem to care less and less about
"fuck" in conversation they are caring more about that word.

(this is a genuine interest by the way)

~~~
berntb
I'd not react if someone used "fuck" as an expletive (depending on situation),
but if someone called another in the discussion for "fucker", or similar.

In sum: A curse is not high class, but might pass. A general insult to
someone, because they disagreed, is much worse.

(And I partly agree with the poster, if someone disagrees I'd like a motivated
comment. A vote up/down is just frustrating; what can I learn? [Edit: But to
vote up/down to show you're (dis)agreeing is the culture on HN, it seems. So I
accept that.])

Disclaimer: I'm not a native English speaker, but afaik "cunt" is quite
offensive.

~~~
ErrantX
Gotcha. That makes sense :-)

(and yeh I agree with the rest of what you say)

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lionhearted
Chavez is the Kim Jong Il of the Western Hemisphere. Military dictator who
runs his country into the ground while talking big, waving his arms around,
and thinking he's relevant. It's just staggering that despite all that oil
they've got, they've managed to squander most of the proceeds via corruption
and mismanagement.

~~~
ErrantX
I have a really bad anecdote about Venezuelan. We had a guy from Venezuela on
our Uni course.

Once at a party one of the girls on our course with communist leanings (an
American, as it happens) says to him "don't you think it's so great what's
going on in your country at the moment?"

The look on his face was awful (to this day I dont think she understands quite
why he was upset)

~~~
andrewcooke
The trouble is that we / you don't have enough context / social knowledge to
extrapolate from this. If the guy is in the USA then it's likely he comes from
a fairly wealthy background. And that is absolutely not going to support
Chavez. S American politics cover a much wider range than American / Western
politics, where you are basically choosing between Pepsi and Coke. There
really are Maoists and Fascists and everything inbetween.... And also,
American leftist supporters of Chavez are incredibly naive, in my experience.
So this is just the kind of cultural disaster you could predict - it doesn't
really tell us anything new.

I am not criticising you - just trying to explain the general problem with
understanding what is happening in Venezuela. It's very had to get a good grip
on. So much news is extremely polarized.

~~~
ErrantX
> So this is just the kind of cultural disaster you could predict - it doesn't
> really tell us anything new.

Oh absolutely (you've pretty much described the situation spot on). It was
just a related anecdote :)

(incidentally he was fairly poor in Venezuela but had distant family in the UK
who managed to pay for him to make it over to university here. The girl was
generally extremely naive: but in her eyes was wordly, experienced and a bit
radical. You can imagine who was more interesting to hang with - Jose is one
of the people that kicked off my fascination with South America)

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plesn
I think this news has it's place on HN, just as well as other news on ACTA,
net-neutrality, etc.. But some comments are really inappropriate to put so
much political polarity on it.

Venezuela is a country relatively "rebel" on US domination: that doesn't make
it a devil, but that doesn't make it a angel either: comments on Chavez being
a "dictator" seem inappropriate in this thread (what about a previous US
president who cheated with voting machines then ?). Essentially, beware of not
distorting the perception of things by highlighting many more such facts when
they happen in Venezuela than when they happen e.g. in France or Italy
promoted by major media companies and securitarian policies. Overall, think
about Chomsky...

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DanielBMarkham
I'm not going to argue the political theory of this, although I have a lot to
say.

Instead I'll just say that I continue to feel sorry for my brother human
beings in Venezuela. They deserve better than this.

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bh23ha
Just like our OUR politicians! Isn't that nice!

