

Collusion - iPad Creativity & Collaboration Tool - Schwolop
http://collusionapp.com/

======
bobsy
The negative connotations of the word 'Collusion' puts me off before I even
see it.

Looking at it. No one appears to be writing with their hand resting on the
iPad. Their hand is either floating or off to the side. Is this because
writing isn't very good with your hand resting on the screen?

Its interesting but I feel it still isn't needed. Pen and paper is typically
fine. So is typing. This allows you to back up all of your scribbles but
beyond that I think pen and paper has the advantage.

How many people need to collaboratively write on the same page of A4 at the
same time?

If I need to see multiple pages of notes I either add a sticker to the page to
easy flick between them or tear out the page and put pages side by side on the
table. Collusion doesn't appear to be able to do this.

If it could automatically convert written notes into typed notes. Maybe that
would be cool. I don't know though. I still think a laptop is better in most
note taking situations. With my laptop I can take notes, get additional
resources and record the audio of whatever I am taking notes from all at the
same time. With an iPad I can't.

Replacing a pad of a paper and pen with an iPad, sensor and pen doesn't look
like innovation to me.

~~~
zacaltman
I've tried Collusion. I was resting my hand on the screen. There's an option
to allow for this so it only detects the pen, which is awesome.

------
mcobrien
Watching the video, I was struck by how slowly and carefully everyone was
writing. I guess I might do that if I someone was filming my handwriting, but
if it's to compensate for the speed of the sensor it's a problem.

Competing with paper and a pen is hard enough, but if you can't scribble fast
it might be a dealbreaker.

~~~
hastur
It might have more to do with the lack of friction from the medium.

We're all trained to write by putting some minimal, but constant effort to
move the stylus (pencil, ballpen) against the paper surface. Here, it's just a
piece plastic sliding on a glass surface. You have to make a different kind of
effort in controlling the stylus, when it moves too easily and has to be
stopped or redirected at the right moment. (Learning to ice skate might be a
good analogue.)

------
sc00ter
Looks interesting - the biggest shame is that, thanks to the closed nature of
iOS, it won't be possible to make this an input device for other apps without
each app having to develop to it specifically (assuming there's even an SDK).

------
mahmud
There is already an app called "Collusion", a Mozilla add-on:

<http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/collusion/>

~~~
sthatipamala
They are two very different projects on two entirely different platforms. It's
not going to be a problem.

~~~
nodata
We have this conversation on HN every single time.

Two apps with the same name is a problem.

------
rob_colluding
Hi Guys.

Paraphrased from our Kickstarter page: Thanks to those that have identified an
issue with our drawing video clips, they were shot with a high fps camera and
included in our video at half speed. @mcobrien this is why drawing looked
"slow and careful". In response, our video will be adjusted to demonstrate the
drawing at normal speed.

Additionally, we have identified areas to further optimize our algorithms for
you to ensure that any latency is fully minimized. You can consider drawing
speed to be equivalent experience to the iPad touch interface; if not better.

Cheers,

Rob (CEO) Collusion

------
fallenhitokiri
I do not really care about collaboration, even if it could be fun sometimes
and I believe we will find use cases where we absolutely need it,...

The one thing I find interesting is "Real Palm Rejection". I tried to replace
my trustworthy college block with the iPad but I always failed because writing
without putting my hand on the screen feels wrong and results in a writing
even I cannot read anymore. If they only get this one feature right I believe
they can enter and enterprise market without any real competition.

~~~
chj
It is hard to believe they can perfectly solve this problem. There are many
developers out there struggling with this beast.

~~~
Schwolop
They don't use the iPad touch events when the pen is on the surface, so
there's no issue with this whatsoever.

~~~
fallenhitokiri
So when the pen touches the surface they deactivate touch input? What is when
the app crashes? "did you try turning it off and on again?"

------
michaelbuddy
So what's the difference in this and the iPen? I mean what is going to make
this project better to support than just getting the iPen right now? On the
products page of Collusion you say, "Why are we doing this? Nobody has stepped
up to own the problem of digital writing and drawing on the iPad"

I think you ought to say in the site somewhere, "Where the iPen is successful
in this...we are doing this"

It's got to be differentiated somehow.

~~~
rob_colluding
Differentiation is apparent by scrolling down our product page: decently
designed and manufactured hardware (unlike iPen) real time cloud
collaboration, ocr as you write (mentioned in the video), handling of media,
deep field.... hope this helps

------
amvp
It looks interesting, and the the palm rejection is probably the feature that
will make or break it. It looked to me from the video that nobody was actually
resting their palm on the surface - they either suspended their hands above
the screen, or wrote on the edge and rested their palm on the (ipad's large)
bezel.

So perhaps, as of yet, that 'tricky problem' isn't quite as solved as they say
it is.

~~~
lukejohnnuttall
The Collusion guys are hanging out at my coworking space(fishburners). I just
used it 5 mins ago. The palm rejection works great.

~~~
Schwolop
Yeah, palm rejection is better than anything else because they simply don't
register iPad touch events when the pen's pressure sensor is activated.

The underlying tech is that the pen is an ultrasound transmitter and the
attachment has stereo microphones. It's then just a matter of basic
trigonometry to get the position much more accurately than the iPad can detect
a finger.

~~~
alttab
That's bad ass

~~~
rob_colluding
Thanks man! what's even more badass is that the core IP around the ultrasonic
techniques used in the pen was developed by the Israeli Military. Now that is
BAD ASS!

------
georgespencer
How does palm rejection work (if at all)? That has been the major barrier to
me using my iPad for note-taking etc.

~~~
obsim
It works by considering only the digital pen signal for writing. The pen in
the demo is essentially the same as the iPen, which has been supported by a
few handwriting apps (including mine) on the market. However, the pen is not
accurate enough for serious note-taking, because the signal is transmitted
some distance above the pen tip. There are many complaints in the iPen
Kickstarter comment section.

iPen: [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ipen/ipen-the-first-
acti...](http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ipen/ipen-the-first-active-
stylus-for-ipad)

(Disclaimer: I am the developer of GoodNotes.)

~~~
zacaltman
I've tried it. The pen was accurate enough for me to color in tiny squares
(same as those on grid paper). Writing felt natural too - I was surprised.

------
dasmoth
It's an appealing, nicely-produced video.

Everyone in it has nice handwriting, even when writing on a low-friction
screen. What about those of us who don't particularly like reading our own
handwriting, let along sharing it with others?

