
Do you guys miss real books? (2014) - wslh
https://www.reddit.com/r/kindle/comments/206cyn/do_you_guys_miss_real_books/
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thomasfromcdnjs
I thought there would be more "yes" to be honest.

I love physical books, I like how they look laying around as a reminder to
read them and I like how they disconnect me from technology.

Tried e-readers but I can never stick to them.

If I am doing dry reading, I put my computer somewhere near by for dictionary
etc

And I can move around physical books much more easily and it still feels more
natural.

~~~
drcube
Why would you expect more people to miss books? Books didn't go anywhere.
Anyone who wants them can easily buy them or borrow them.

You know what I miss? Dead tree user manuals that used to come with hardware
and software. That's something that has gone the way of the Dodo, unlike most
other books. Luckily I can still buy printed manuals from the FSF.

~~~
astrodust
With print-on-demand you can make a physical book out of any manual.

~~~
jl6
I just miss manuals, dead tree or otherwise. Where’s the manual for my iPhone?
It’s just a vast unordered, sprawling, inconsistent, incomplete subsection of
apple.com.

~~~
cr0sh
What I miss are schematics and parts lists. Of course, that would be virtually
impossible with today's electronics, short of a bunch of PDF documents or
something. Even then, they would almost be worthless.

But...back in the 1980s, just about any electronic device you bought
(especially if you bought it from Radio Shack), the manual would have a
schematic in the back, plus a list of parts (and in the case of RS - the parts
list would usually have part numbers you could pick up off-the-shelf at the
store!).

I miss that.

~~~
astrodust
There's too many black-box chips on a typical product to make any sort of
schematic meaningful.

There used to be full wiring diagrams for cars in manuals, but imagine that
now where your car has 200 separate computerized systems, each with their own
intricate circuits.

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michaelbuckbee
Two additional thoughts:

1\. These discussions are often framed as digital vs physical books and the
reality is more "books vs all other forms of entertainment".

Kindle, etc. really set up books to compete with Netflix and Gamepass in the
"It's 9 pm on a Wednesday what should I do to entertain myself for a few hours
before I fall asleep?" category of entertainment. Which I think is fantastic.

2\. Given cost and printing constraints there are lots of obvious and non-
obvious forces at play that constrain authorial expression. Case in point:
novellas are more or less non-existent in printed form as printing costs don't
make sense for a "book" in the 50-100 page range, but they're starting a real
revival on Kindle where it's entirely possible to charge a $1 for a shorter
work.

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sys_64738
Mixed emotions about them.

* hauling books around at college damaged my back * classic Microsoft texts like ASP v1.0 and SQL Server v1.0 make great monitor height boosters * waiting for a Commodore 64 book to be delivered at the local library in the 80s taught me extreme patience * you can’t flick through an ebook quit like a real book * one of the favorite pastimes was the personal collection of books you inherit when you leave your old job * a shelf full of obscure titles makes you look impressive to passers by

~~~
frosted-flakes
I don't use e-readers much myself, but I do have a Kobo e-reader (Toronto-
based company bought by Rakuten a few years ago), and I was surprised to see
how effective the rapid page turn feature they added is. Pressing and holding
along the edge of the screen quickly flips through the pages at a speed where
you can just catch the gist of the page.

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headcanon
For me it depends on the book - usually if its a novel, the kind I would used
to buy in paperback, I get the kindle version. Its much more convenient to
read the kindle in different places without having to decide beforehand which
book you're going to bring. Also, if I just have my phone, its a good
alternative to the other things you do on your phone.

The hardware kindle is excellent for travel since I can bring the whole
library with me. If I'm going on a trip I'll buy a book or two to keep me
occupied, and all I have to worry about is the device itself.

There are also a number of public-domain classics that are either free or
insanely cheap on kindle, like Zane Grey or Shakespeare, so for those its like
why not?

Having a large collection of print books also implies you have stable home
environment or some place to keep them. For readers who are either transient
or nomadic, then kindle has a lot of obvious advantages.

For the kind of book I would buy in "hardcover" I still go paper. These
include specific favorites, art books, graphic novels, coffee table books.
Many books quite simply do much better in print media, especially ones that
are highly visual.

There is also much to be said for browsing old boutique bookstores, since they
contain a lot of stuff that wouldn't be on Kindle at all, and have a lot of
deals.

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cwmma
The main thing I miss in physical books is the ability to flip around in them,
so while it's technically possible to do this in a kindle, any time there is
like a map or something similar in a book I end up just finding a picture of
it online and saving it on my phone.

This is also why I tend to prefer physical copies of technical books and RPG
manuals.

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truculent
I think there's something about the spatial dimension of how information is
arranged in a real book that really helps me learn and retain concepts and
information.

~~~
kolbe
I'm not sure I agree with the reasoning, but I agree with your result.

I've had a kindle for about six months, and I've been reading a ton. I'm
usually more of a 3-5 books/year type of guy, but I've gone through ten since
getting the kindle. Problem is that I really haven't retained the content as
well as I have been able to with tree books.

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billfruit
I prefer the convenience of ebook readers. But strangely the advent of
e-readers, has, to my eyes increased the value of physical books, as a
physical collectible items. So even though I do most of my reading on the
eReader, I buy physical books, whenever I see a beautifully made one or one
which is noteworthy any manner, and it gives me the same feeling that
collectors of any physical artefact gets. Moreover physical books may become a
rare prized commodity in the future, when only the most popular of works may
continue to get physical prints, so for many books the time in which they can
still be got as physical copies might be passing soon.

In a related matter, ebooks have made the concept of works going out-of-print
largely obsolete.

~~~
Cthulhu_
Books as collectibles is an interesting development; you see the same
happening in the music industry, where especially vinyl is making a comeback.
I've bought a number of vinyl albums, despite not having a vinyl player. It's
music that I pirated 10-15 odd years ago; I still wouldn't buy CDs (lack of CD
players, inconvenient compared to digital), but buying vinyl as a collectible
is definitely a thing. Also because they're a lot more tangible, have a nice
exploded view of album art, and often have some neat collectable features like
multiple disks, fancy colors, etc.

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DanTheManPR
I find myself gravitating back towards physical books after years of almost
exclusively reading on my phone or eink device. Something about how the you
can feel your progress as the thickness of pages in each hand. It's totally
irrational, the convenience of an electronic version ought to outweigh that,
but... I choose to read a physical version more often than not.

For reference books, where random access is a typical use case, I find a
combination of a physical version and a searchable PDF file on a computer is
most useful. Mobile devices, especially eink ones, are somewhat unsuited for
that kind of reading.

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therealasdf
I prefer my kindle because it is light and doesn't require a light like a
regular book. I would never travel without it. I don't find books more
immersive, if the writing is good I'll get lost in the book even if it was on
my laptop or phone.

My main issue with ebooks is the DRM around them.

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andrewla
The thing I miss most is the physicality not of reading the book, but of
browsing a collection of books. When I'm considering whether to start a new
book or re-read a treasured one a bookshelf is perfect for this -- I can look
at spines and instantly regain context. I can see hundreds of books in a
matter of seconds without having to flip pages. I can put candidates aside and
prune them down.

Similarly when I'm browsing books -- I still find my self going to Barnes &
Noble as a lookie-loo; just browsing around for interesting books, because the
experience is so much better than anything you can get on an electronic
device.

I've thought before that it would be neat to have an "Amazon e-book Store"
where there was a single copy of each book, with a QR code that contained an
affiliate link to buy the book on Amazon. You'd get all the benefits of
physical browsing there; you can take down a book, page through it, look at
other books by the same author, have staff recommendations, etc. The
operational cost would be small because you wouldn't have to carry multiple
copies of the same book, and you wouldn't have to keep any non-display
inventory or have to deal with the retail aspect at all.

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karlkatzke
I should answer yes, that I miss real books.

My first job was as a library page. It was natural; I had been reading thick
paperbacks since I was 8 or so. In Pennsylvania I needed to check those out
under my parents' library cards, because my juvenile library card wouldn't
allow me access to them. At age 12, the library finally stopped putting them
under my parents card and just granted me an 'Adult' card at an early age.
When an opportunity came up to shelf books for $4/hr, I jumped at it.

I was and am a voracious reader. Before ebooks, packing for a vacation
sometimes meant I needed an extra bag just for books. It wasn't possible for
me to throw a couple changes of clothes in a backpack and head off for the
weekend; I needed an actual suitcase because I'd need space to tuck at least a
couple of paperbacks.

But I don't miss real books. It took me a few years to get used to reading on
an iPad. I can finally travel light, even if I'm spending a chunk of an entire
weekend in airports. I don't need to choose between bringing one technical
book and three paperbacks. It's so much more convenient.

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random42_
I used to love physical books and the feel and the smell and the looks. Until
the day I moved overseas and couldn't take my collection with me. I left them
stored in boxes at friend's house and one day, during a storm, his house was
flooded and my books were destroyed like most of his stuff.

Today I love my Kindle and I like the peace of mind that my books are safe.

~~~
bitwize
> Today I love my Kindle and I like the peace of mind that my books are safe.

Until AMZN decides to take them away from you.

~~~
atrus
It's always a good idea to backup data that is in your possession.

~~~
mrec
True, but in this case that requires stripping the DRM too.

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mcv
I too love physical books. I love holding them, collecting them, reading them,
and having them visible in my home, because that also helps discovery by my
visitors; who hasn't taken a look at someone else's book case and thought:
"That book looks interesting"? You lose that if the books only exist on a
harddisk or memory card.

But recently I've been digging through some reading material which partly
exists in PDF, and partly in big physical books, and I'm going way faster
through the PDFs than through the physical books, because I read the PDFs on a
tablet that I always have with me, and the physical book is big enough that I
really need to sit down explicitly to read it.

~~~
Tobani
This is the biggest thing for me. I can cary my library with me all the time
and when I have to wait longer than planned I can read something meaningful
instead of just playing a stupid phone game or reading internet banality. I
mean there's times when I don't want to think and those things are great. But
now I have an option.

~~~
Freak_NL
As much as I love my (physical!) library, I don't feel the need to carry all
of it around with me. Just the book I'm reading at the moment suffices —
perhaps a completely different second book (e.g., non-fiction if the other one
is fiction) if I expect a long trip.

When I go to the barber I know that there is a good chance that there will be
a queue, so I grab a book. I got through six chapters of Foucault's Pendulum
(Umberto Eco, 1986) that way last week.

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droptablemain
I don't miss books because they're still a big part of my life. I do have a
Kindle, but I don't use it. I still collect and read paper books. I just
prefer the reading experience.

~~~
gigama
ditto, reading physical books is easier on my eyes, requires no batteries or
chargers (other than coffee), and the good ones can be easily passed on to
book-loving friends and family.

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eresing
Something I don't see mentioned: I like the aesthetics of shelves of books. I
enjoy perusing the shelves when I'm ready to start a new one. I also enjoy
shopping used book sales. Here in San Diego, there's a huge monthly used book
sale at the North Park library. Every book is $1 and under and it's actually
good stuff. I'll probably only read 10% of the books I pick up, but that's
okay considering the low cost of each.

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oftenwrong
Why I like books:

\- I prefer reading on paper

\- Not having to think about charging and battery life (book light excluded)

\- Used books can often be had cheap or free

\- No proprietary lock-in bullshit

Why I do not like books:

\- Turning pages is cumbersome

\- No way to search the text

\- No way to alter the font size

\- No way to look something up in a book you read N years ago unless you're
home with your bookshelf

\- Harder to find a comfortable reading position

\- Books are heavy and take up a lot of space

Despite all that, I still mainly read paper books.

~~~
gooseus
Mostly agreed, some of my addenda:

Physical better:

\- Persistent subconscious knowledge of where I am in the book (weight in each
hand).

\- Much easier to flip back multiple pages to re-read a section and flip to
where you were.

\- Resilient to collapses of information/power infrastructure.

Digital better:

\- Traveling with many books is impractical

\- Built-in dictionary and wikipedia search

\- Resilient to fire and water damage

~~~
shitgoose
Not sure I understand the last point about fire and water damage, but the rest
are exactly my thoughts.

~~~
zrobotics
Not the parent, but at least for me my ebook collection is far less likely to
be irretrievably lost than my physical library. I keep important data like
photos, documents, and books backed up in multiple places, including off-site.
So if my house burns down or floods, my physical library will be irretrievably
destroyed, while I will still be able to access my digital library.

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shitgoose
I went through few Kindles over the years, but ended up going back to real
books. Kindle UI is sluggish, it is pain to navigate to bookmark, can't jump
between chapters if I want to. Touchscreen is a disaster - press and then
think "did I press hard enough or it is just slow?".

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iMark
I have a large screen phone and decent eyesight, so I'm perfectly happy to
read books using the Kindle app.

Books are lovely physical objects, but the convenience of carrying a library
with me at all times far outweighs any sentimentality I have.

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GuillaumeBrdet
Might not be a popular opinion but I like being able to access any book from
my phone/computer. Mainly when traveling, it feels like you have an endless
library. You can easily purchase new books you're really interested in.

Though, I do understand how some bookstore may suffer. I actually believe we
may see more of them. They could benefit from the co-working space / coffee
shops culture that's growing.

On the top of that, I would say the ease of purchasing a book today has likely
helped a lot of authors increase their revenue or general awareness.

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BerislavLopac
The main thing I miss with the physical books, as opposed to e-books, is the
ease of giving them as presents. Right now, when I want to give a book I just
buy a physical copy; but it's been a long time since I bought one for personal
consumption.

The second way physical books are still superior is that the non-text-based
ones (i.e. anything with plenty of illustrations, especially in colour) still
look much better than their electronic counterparts (and with that type of
books, the appearance matters at least as much as the content).

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sametmax
Miss ?

Why miss ? Millions of them are still sold every month.

Besides, it's not an XOR proposition.

I had 3 e-readers, as they are handy in a trip. However, it takes less effort
for me to read from a real book, and I also read faster.

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glotgizmo
My eyes struggle to focus for too long on a real book, my kindle on the other
hand I can read for hours on end.

As a compromise, I will buy books from foliosociety.com as gifts for others
instead.

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moonshinefe
I like them for the smell and tactile sensation of it, and after spending
hours upon hours in front of a monitor essentially every day, it's nice to
unplug for a little while before bed.

I do have to say brand new books are pretty expensive though, but used books
can be gotten for very cheap (and I actually like that older book smell). Or
alternatively, free at the library if you have the time/inclination to go.

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theriddlr
I live in a tiny flat (normal for the UK). I only keep hard copies of special
books such as coffee table books and author-signed copies. I'll check whether
the library has the book I want before purchasing a digital copy of it.

I ran into the first world problem of not being able to read a physical book
in bed because my bedside lamp isn't bright enough, having always used my
Kindle Paperwhite.

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blts
Depends on the kind of a book. Novels, easy read - definitely better in
e-form. Anything complex - textbook, or science popularization or even rich
fiction - makes me miss real print. Mainly due to the lack of easy navigation.
It is a lot easier to go back and re-read fragments in the real book than it
is in the e-book.

TL;DR; Working with the book is easy in printed form and pain in e-format.

~~~
zrobotics
Huh, interesting that our preferences are polar opposites despite being formed
for the same reasons. I much prefer technical or 'hard' literature in
electronic format due to ease of searching and bookmarking, since I will often
need to refer back to previous sections or take notes. However, for something
like fiction novels I far prefer paper books, since I don't often need to
reference back for something like a SF novel, so I don't care that it's harder
to find a specific section.

Might be a difference in reading style, but for something like a physical
textbook it is normal for me to have 40-50 separate bookmarks, which I always
found unmanageable.

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rchaud
If it's a book that's technical in any way, or one that I'll need to reference
semi-regularly (say, a self-help book), I'll buy the print version. It's
easier to mark up the sides with notes, add tabs to bookmark important points.

Flipping through marked-up books is faster than going through the "highlights"
section of your ebook.

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talonx
No, not at all, because I read both "real" books and on the Kindle. I have
thousands of print books and keep buying more. I have the Kindle for books
which are too expensive to buy in print format. And not all books are
available on the Kindle - I thought this last one would be obvious, but
apparently it's not.

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VBprogrammer
I feel nostalgic about real books. I'm not sure that's exactly the same as
missing real books. Having a book on my phone means that when I have time to
myself I have the book I want to read. A real book would take effort to ensure
I have it.

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dr0verride
I use my ereader for entertainment and paper books for technical information.

I'm not really a book person though. I don't think owning a bunch of physical
books makes me smarter and I don't particularly like the look of shelves upon
shelves of books.

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ntlk
No, because I still buy almost all reading as physical books.

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saluki
y, it's nice having a book on a phone or iPad or kindle, but it's not the same
a flipping through a physical book, adding post it notes, marking notes in the
book.

Probably miss physical books more for something you are studying rather than
just reading a novel.

So if I'm learning something I'd rather have a physical book, for reading
either one works.

I do like having books on shelves though, just the look of it and seeing what
you have read, having books for reference.

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cafard
At my house, they haven't left.

I tend to use Gutenberg for quoting passages, and I read most computer
documentation on-line. Otherwise, I mostly use physical books.

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neom
No, as someone with pretty intense dyslexia, books and learning from them have
been the bane of my existence. Text to speech has been a life saver.

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Causality1
Print book sales are going up, not down.

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sverige
I guess I'm a dinosaur. I tried a Kindle once for about 15 minutes and have
never used one again.

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HNLurker2
Unpopular opinion: using phone ereader because you can pick up and listen on
way to commuting.

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Mirioron
No. I read a ton and if it weren't for my phone then I wouldn't read fiction
at all.

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ori_b
I don't miss them. They're still available. I buy them.

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martin_a
No.

Also see:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines)

