
Tonka beans – A delicious flavour with a toxic chemical - rfreytag
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170620-the-delicious-flavour-with-a-toxic-secret
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undersuit
>“I was talking to a vanilla purveyor recently and he offered me tonka bean
paste,” says Raquel. “I was like ‘If I want to use tonka bean, I’ll use tonka
bean.’”

One of my biggest issues with mislabeling foods. Sell me vanilla at the market
price, sell me tonka at the market price, but don't sell my vanilla that is
actually tonka at vanilla market prices. Same with scallops and stingray, crab
and surimi, calamari and pork, chocolate and flavored vegetable oil.

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Mikeb85
> scallops and stingray

Ray and skate is nothing like scallops.

> calamari and pork

Again, nothing alike.

> chocolate and flavored vegetable oil

Chocolate contains more elements than just cocoa butter, so you can't just
replace it with vegetable oil. I'm sure there's some chocolate out there that
cuts vegetable oil into the cocoa butter, but I've personally not come across
it.

~~~
Isamu
> Ray and skate is nothing like scallops.

They are frequently substituted, cut out in little circles, and sold as
"scallops". It is legal to do so (in the US.) The poster is complaining about
mislabeling.

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p0wn
Frequently where? I believe this is yet another urban legend. The meat looks
different.

~~~
rukuu001
Here in Australia. A lot of people just aren't familiar enough with the real
thing to know the difference.

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pluma
I was surprised the article didn't mention nutmeg, which is widely used
despite its toxicity, so I tried to figure out how their LD50 compares (i.e.
how much tonka nut you need to eat to have a 50% chance of death, and how
nutmeg stacks up).

I couldn't find any clear answers for tonka beans and the exact dose of course
depends on body weight but the lethal doses for nutmeg were an order of
magnitude higher: for nutmeg the doses are given in thousands of milligrammes
per kg body weight, for tonka beans they're in the hundreds.

So I guess it could be said that tonka beans are 10 times as deadly as nutmeg.

EDIT: g -> mg, sorry about mixing up the units

~~~
smeyer
> for nutmeg the doses are given in thousands of grammes per kg body weight

Is it really fair to call something toxic if the LD50 is more than your
bodyweight? I suspect you might have your LD50 value off.

~~~
pluma
Oops, you're right. I meant to say milligrammes. I haven't had much sleep
lately and my brain's not working right. I'll edit.

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rustlerpride
Although banning might be excessive, products containing coumarin should be
labelled appropriately. If what the article says is true, such as that a
teaspoon of cassia cinnamon can put you over the safe limits, then consuming
coumarin is dangerous for those with liver problems, recovering from
mononucleosis, or when consumed in conjunction with other liver-damaging
compounds (i.e. alcohol).

~~~
pavement
Probably also consider caution when taking some analgesics, like
acetaminophen/paracetamol.

~~~
tekromancr
Yea, but those are already properly labeled. I'm not sure what you are getting
at?

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icebraining
I believe pavement means consuming coumarin while taking analgesics.

~~~
pavement
Indeed, I was thinking that it's probably one more detail a person could
neglect, unwittingly nickel-and-diming their way to further liver damage. For
a perfect storm, add them altogether on top of a case of undiagnosed
hepatitis.

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danielam
Another food also banned from the US because of its coumarin content is the
herb Hierochloe odorata, also known as bison grass or sweet grass. It's an
important ingredient in Żubrówka vodka. For this reason, the Żubrówka you can
purchase in the US is essentially fake, containing ingredients meant to
simulate or approximate coumarin.

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sersi
Tonka beans are quite popular in Europe and there are a lot of deserts or even
jam using them. The thing though is that it tastes awful in large dose, so
you're unlikely to encounter a large dose of it...

It's a bit like nutmeg which is also quite toxic in large doses but is not
banned in the US (which shows that sometimes those decisions are rather
arbitrary)

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Sir_Cmpwn
Can someone who's a better cook than this author tell us their opinion of the
taste?

~~~
sersi
Yes, that part about his cooking experiment was rather ridiculous. It marries
very well with vanilla and chocolate. By itself it has a bit of a sweet nutty
flavor that is rather complex.

To be slighlty flippant, it's kind of the shitake (or msg) of desert, it
enhances the rest of the flavors.

~~~
magic_beans
The writer is a woman.

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scoates
I had the pleasure of tasting a Tonka Bean IPA I brought back from Brazil a
couple years ago. Immediately ordered some of the beans (thanks to my freedom
as a Canadian (-: ). They're really great in crème brûlée.

~~~
woodrowbarlow
do you just dust the top of the creme brulee with tonka shavings?

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jedanbik
Tonka (Tonquin) beans traditionally were stored with [nasal] snuff tobacco as
a flavor agent.

See page 42: [http://www.top25snuff.com/images/dokumenty/snuff-
yesterday-a...](http://www.top25snuff.com/images/dokumenty/snuff-yesterday-
and-today,-c.w.-shepherd,-1963.pdf)

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SurrealSoul
[https://www.amazon.com/Tonka-Beans-Wishes-Ravenz-
Special/dp/...](https://www.amazon.com/Tonka-Beans-Wishes-Ravenz-
Special/dp/B00JV3G64Q)

But it's illegal?

~~~
0xffff2
The article says it's illegal to sell the bean _to eat_.

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ashark
TL;DR with the important stuff bumped (I hate, hate, hate clickbait and
burying the lede):

Tonka beans, containing the toxic-to-the-liver chemical Coumarin, are banned
for use in food in the US but still used in some high-end restaurants and
bakeries, leading to occasional FDA raids. The beans impart flavors akin to
vanilla, lavender, cherries, and grass, due to their sharing some chemical
components. They're probably safe in small amounts, making the ban
controversial. If you have certain rare enzyme disorders or (obviously)
existing liver damage, however, the risk of harm is higher. The chemical is
present in smaller but still-large amounts in certain other foods and spices,
notably common cassia "cinnamon"—the less-common true cinnamon contains only
trace amounts. The use of Tonka/Coumarin in non-food products is unregulated,
and it is in fact used in cigarettes, e-cigs, and cosmetics. It can be
absorbed through the lungs and skin.

Tonka bean:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipteryx_odorata](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipteryx_odorata)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnamomum_cassia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnamomum_cassia)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnamomum_verum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnamomum_verum)

~~~
Dylan16807
"Tonka beans have an intense flavour that chefs and food manufacturers have
enthusiastically embraced. There’s just one problem – it contains a chemical
that could, in large enough doses, kill you."

This is the _first thing in the article_. How is the lede buried?

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ashark
Ah, yeah, I looked past the subtitle and started reading the article itself,
which is definitely _not_ ideal inverted-pyramid reporting, as it starts with:

"It’s led to raids by law enforcement agencies and mass deaths in animals; in
the United States, chefs have ‘dealers’ who smuggle it into the country."

So: lede's not buried, but the rest of the article's garbage.

I'm fine with nonstandard, creative news writing, gonzo, whatever, when it's
justified and done well, but this article's just a rambling eyeball trap.

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pruett
I adopted a pitbull whose shelter name was "Beans". Immediately upon adopting,
I dropped the name "Beans" and gave him the moniker Tatanka. My wife
occasionally calls him Tonka Beans for short...

He's my best friend.

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jjtheblunt
tatanka like buffalo from dancing with wolves? we use that reference for the
thundering footsteps of our hairy family members wrestling, playing tag,
playing...

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pruett
exactly...we were watching dances with wolves the night before we got him :)

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avs733
I am somewhat appalled but not at all surprised to see click bait headlines
leaking into the BBC's vernacular.

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SurrealSoul
It could be worse, I seen far more clickbaity articles about this topic

>This flavour is so good its illegal

>If your food tastes this good it could kill you

>This flavour caused a drug raid

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avs733
Oh it totally could be worse in an absolute sense. But for the BBC...this
seems quite bad. Its one thing to get that language from an ad or distractify.
Quite another from the Beeb

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torrent-of-ions
Bitter almonds contain cyanide and are used in loads of traditional desserts.

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panzer_wyrm
It gets deactivated by the heat

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jeltz
Yes, but you do not heat it in all desserts.

