
Regular cannabis use were associated with poorer cognitive performance - option
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/add.15207
======
jlturner
The title here seems like it’s drawing much more conclusion than the paper
gives - really should read “Study Correlates Regular Cannabis Use in
Adolescents with Reduced Verbal Memory Performance”

Better yet, “Stoned Teens Don’t Listen” hah.

~~~
option
the title was copy-pasted from paper’s “Findings” section.

Can’t paste all the nuances in the title, so checkout the actual link.

~~~
CameronNemo
Here is the actual sentence the title was edited from:

>After correcting for multiple testing, a greater frequency and earlier onset
of regular cannabis use were associated with poorer cognitive performance,
specifically on tests of verbal memory.

I thought the bad grammar was just a typo, but it was due to you cutting up
the sentence to mean something different than what the paper actual states.

------
alextheparrot
> A vast majority of participants endorsed [Quotation note: Had used] cannabis
> use at waves 1 (88%) and 2 (94%), with a mean age of onset of monthly use of
> 13.7 years. Further, participants reported using, on average, 8.4 (SD 1⁄4
> 10.8) days per month in the previous 6 months at wave 1.

They’ve collected a group of urban kids whom the vast majority are using
cannabis, many starting years prior to this survey.

I know it is chic to be skeptical, but this is one study where I think it is
also correct. The study leads the reader to believe that there is a
biochemical link between cognitive performance and cannabis as a substance
[0]. On the other hand, the evidence they present is that a small minority of
kids aren’t using and are performing better. The number of confounding
variables is much, much higher than simply alcohol use (Which in the second
wave was at 99%, not much to normalize for) and family situation. For example,
drug use can result in being kicked off sports teams, suspensions, things that
could hinder intellectual development.

Is anyone convinced by the study and would stand to offer support for its
conclusion?

[0] To me, the following quote can be read to support this assertion: “
Moderate adolescent cannabis use may have adverse effects on cognitive
functioning, specifically verbal memory, that cannot be explained by familial
factors”

~~~
giarc
Problem is you can't run an RCT and hand out marijuana to teens so you are
stuck with biased sampling methods.

~~~
edmundsauto
Easy personal solution is to accept the serious limitations of studies like
this. Harder scientific solution is to implement a well designed cohort study
that follows people over 20+ years.

That's how we know about cardiovascular health. Framingham cohort study.

~~~
alextheparrot
I haven’t really vetted this study, but it samples IQ prior to use at 9-12 and
after use at 17-20 among twins [0]. It concludes that there is no link between
IQ scores and usage. More of a “For your interest” reference.

Your overall comment is spot on, just because designing a good study is hard
does not mean we should accept poorly designed studies as good science. Agency
risk unaddressed, science should seek to find the solution to a question
rather than an answer.

[0]
[https://www.pnas.org/content/113/5/E500](https://www.pnas.org/content/113/5/E500)

------
shajznnckfke
From my own personal experience, pot seriously impairs my cognitive
performance. I’ll only do it if I don’t have to work for the next 48 hours
(eg. a Friday night or vacation). If I’m undertaking some kind of serious
effort I can’t do it at all, because that period of impairment will stop my
progress.

I think if I had a different kind of job, that didn’t require me to figure out
a lot of details, it wouldn’t matter.

I understand that others have a totally different experience and can code
while stoned. But I’m not surprised that the average results would show lower
performance if a chunk of the population is like me.

~~~
rorykoehler
I don’t think this is accurate. Surely it depends on the specific pot. If you
consume cbd are you cognitively impaired? Probably not. What about mostly cbd
and <1% thc? <5% thc? Or maybe all thc and little cbd. All of these will have
different outcomes.

~~~
shajznnckfke
I don’t notice much effects from cbd. Sometimes hints of a “body high” but I’m
not sure if it’s the placebo effect. The only thing that seems to matter is
the thc content. For me, a little dose of a high thc gummy is the same as a
big dose of a low thc high cbd gummy. So I could take cbd on a work night, or
probably even during the work day, but it wouldn’t do anything for me.

When I talked about pot, I wasn’t taking about cbd, although I apologize if
that causes confusion.

~~~
rorykoehler
CBD is known to have a modulating effect on THC. Essentially THC on it's own
induces anxiety. CBD reduces or even eliminates that effect. My point is more
that saying "pot" does this or that is not descriptive enough to draw any
conclusions. The effects between different strains and people varies so
greatly it's a practically meaningless statement.

------
satori99
I am a regular pot smoker in my mid-40s. I have been using marijuana regularly
since I was 16 and have participated in several studies of this nature since I
was in my early 20s.

I have volunteered for these because I have always felt that marijuana does
not diminish my cognitive performance for certain tasks -- and definitely does
not diminish my memory recall abilities.

Some of these tests involved listening to short stories, and re-telling then
an hour later, and other memory games.

I like to think I aced them, to keep the bell curve wide.

On one occasion, the researcher did indicate this to me, well after the
experiments were over.

~~~
Barrin92
I grew up around a lot of people who were regular smokers from an early age,
say 15. (and by regular I mean "can't sleep without pot"), and their cognitive
abilities definitely suffered from smoking, and they freely admit it, and I
think it's very obvious if you're around people who smoke a lot.

You simply can't concentrate when you're high the same way you can when you
don't smoke. Reading is more difficult, exercise is more difficult, that's
just the literal effects of weed.

If you're high all the time you're not going to perform the way you can when
you're sober, and this is just my anecdotal observation, with people who
started smoking young it becomes a sort of personality trait. You just become
less sharp, less active, and when there's habit less interested in doing
things not-high. Studies aside, that just can't be helpful.

~~~
wolco
Heaping all weed together produces this confusion where one person has one
experience and a different person another.

Some strains make you highly focused. Others more social. Some make you more
creative. Some might make you scared and hearing things.

It's like thinking all food is the same. One person eats chocolate bars all
day and another carrots but are treated as a baseline.

~~~
solitus
No. It would be like saying: one person ate kale all day while the other ate
red cabbage.

------
justanotherc
Is this really all that groundbreaking? I had a teammate in highschool remark
that you could pinpoint in his grades the times when he started/stopped
smoking weed.

~~~
cgriswald
That could have indicated poorer cognitive performance, reduced motivation,
poorer time management, and any number of other things.

~~~
justanotherc
Well not if you ask him as he would tell you his grades were highly correlated
to his smoking habits. Obviously its a non scientific anecdote, but my point
is I thought it was well established common knowledge that marijuana affects
cognition.

~~~
appletrotter
And his smoking habits might be directly correlated with reduced motivation,
poorer time management, and any number of other things. Meaning that it might
not be a direct cognitive effect, but a second or third order effect altering
his performance.

~~~
justanotherc
Please read the second part of my comment before just repeating what you
already said

------
zdware
It's important to note that this study is focused on Adolescents.

------
oblib
They say "A sibling in each family was a clinical proband identified due to
delinquent behaviors."

Pardon my ignorance here but, does this mean they only studied kids with
"delinquent behaviors"?

~~~
alextheparrot
Your reading is correct:

> From 2001 to 2006, 245 probands/257 siblings from San Diego and 351
> probands/373 siblings from Denver were recruited via substance abuse
> treatment programs, alter- native schools and juvenile probation departments
> (see [30] for ascertainment details)

Citation 30 is:

30\. Gelhorn H., Hartman C., Sakai J., Stallings M., Young S., Hyun Rhee S.,
et al. Toward DSM‐V: an item response theory analysis of the diagnostic
process for DSM‐IV alcohol abuse and dependence in adolescents. J Am Acad
Child Adolesc Psy- chiatry 2008; 47: 1329–39;
[https://doi.org/10.1097/](https://doi.org/10.1097/) CHI.0b013e318184ff2e

------
aksjfnkajsnd
Awful title

------
tus88
Wonder what affect of LSD is in similar stufy.

------
abellerose
I'm curious if it was a light, medium, or heavy THC strain of cannabis that
the subjects consumed. It would be nice to see a cognitive performance study
for all prescription drugs.

~~~
SaintGhurka
I haven't touched the stuff in 35 years, but is it markedly different today
than in the past?

~~~
ciarannolan
Yes:

> Overall, the potency of illicit cannabis plant material has consistently
> risen over time since 1995 from approximately 4% in 1995 to approximately
> 12% in 2014.

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987131/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987131/)

~~~
tstrimple
Concentrates are regularly in the 60%-80% range, with some crystalized
versions hitting above 90%.

------
sigzero
This is no new. I was under the impression everyone knew this?

------
dossy
tl;dr: They call it "dope" for a reason, dummy.

------
29athrowaway
Carl Sagan used cannabis, and we can al agree he was a rather smart guy.

However weed strains back then had a different CBD/THC ratio than the ones
today.

~~~
liability
There is a strain today for just about any CBD/THC ratio you could ask for, in
legal markets anyway. Black market supply might be warped, I don't have any
experience with that though.

~~~
eyelidlessness
Sorry, this isn't true. I work in the industry and know how to talk about
product. I have a very, very low THC tolerance, but I appreciate a buzz. I
have failed to find a product that suits my preferences for years in a legal
market. My preferences are relatively "niche", and the market has no interest
in it.

~~~
joejerryronnie
Just take half a hit and inhale air for the rest of your breath. No need to
take a four foot bong rip if you just want a smooth mellow high.

~~~
eyelidlessness
Well, duh, if I'm very sensitive to THC I obviously don't take large tokes.
But with typical THC content being > 15%, "half" a hit is really hard to nail
down. I tend to err on the side of caution because getting too high makes me
anxious... and the usual outcome is I don't get any effect at all.

~~~
joejerryronnie
Have you tried edibles? Dose can be controlled and I feel like it’s a much
more mellow high that builds slowly over time.

