
A guide dog that spies on people who ignore its owner - DanBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/disability-38027203
======
wccrawford
Some of it, like the taxis, you can't be sure they were being jerks. You can
never be 100% sure why they didn't stop.

But the subway employees that looked right at him and then chose not to help?
Ugh. Especially when they were hired especially because it's a busy time and
people need extra help? Unreal.

Of course, we don't know what percentage of the time this happens, either.
It's practically inevitable that you'll meet assholes in big cities, no matter
what your problems are or aren't. And I'm sure he's particularly sensitive to
these problems right now.

Can you really fix these people? Does reminding them to do their jobs and be
nice actually correct their behavior? I have serious doubts.

~~~
tyingq
It's possible the taxi drivers refused the pickup because of the dog, not
because of the disability.

There's apparently a view that dogs are unclean by some Muslim sects. So,
those drivers may be passing by because of the dog. There is certainly some
history: [http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/11/muslim-taxi-
drivers-...](http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/11/muslim-taxi-drivers-vs-
seeing-eye-dogs)

~~~
Johnny555
No need to blame it on a religion -- many drivers of all faiths think dogs are
too dirty to let into their car.

~~~
tyingq
You would have to have a strong enough objection to risk losing your job over
it. Religion is certainly a strong motivation to take that risk...more so than
a opinion.

~~~
Johnny555
Yet it happens:

[http://www.fox25boston.com/news/blind-woman-says-some-
uber-d...](http://www.fox25boston.com/news/blind-woman-says-some-uber-drivers-
refuse-rides-because-of-her-service-dog/452229921)

 _" I don't pick up dogs because I have leather seats"

[http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/uber-refuses-to-take-
blind-p...](http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/uber-refuses-to-take-blind-
passenger-in-dc/351565100)

_"Uber has suspended that driver’s privileges as it investigates Kristin’s
complaint against him. The company does acknowledge that refusing to transport
a service dog is both a clear violation of the law and of Uber policy"*

[http://www.cbsnews.com/news/uber-driver-refuses-ride-
blind-m...](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/uber-driver-refuses-ride-blind-man-
service-dog/)

 _" An Uber driver in Florida was arrested after deputies say he refused to
transport a group of blind people and their service dogs...Stigile says that
when Nau, 60, showed up, he said, "I don't take dogs." Stigile explained the
dogs were service animals and Nau allegedly replied "I don't care."_

------
pavel_lishin
> _The camera has given Amit the confidence to go out alone with Kika and his
> baby son_

Oh man, this is a terrifying idea to me. If I lost my sight, I have no idea
what I would do with my daughter. I felt bad enough when she threw up in her
crib, and I didn't see the vomit on camera - for the next few days, my brain
just kept running all the worst-case-scenarios through my mind and it was hard
to sleep.

~~~
icebraining
[https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/464/...](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/464/transcript#act1)

~~~
pavel_lishin
This story is both incredibly sad and incredibly awesome, especially the last
line.

------
CPLX
All these problems will be a thing of the past when we have self-driving dogs.

------
yorwba
When someone suggested in a recent thread that Amit Patel of
[http://redblobgames.com](http://redblobgames.com) was an early Google
employee, they were challenged to find a source:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13300539](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13300539)

At the time I thought: "How likely could that be? Unless Amit Patel is the
equivalent of `John Smith`, they are probably the same person." Now it seems
to me that the name is actually pretty common ...

~~~
jgrahamc
The name "Patel" is incredibly common (especially in Gujarat) and Amit is a
very common Indian first name.

~~~
DanBC
This website seems to be broken, because it says Amit isn't that popular in
the UK.
[http://names.darkgreener.com/#amit](http://names.darkgreener.com/#amit)

------
dgacmu
David Brin (author) would love this, as an example supporting his arguments
for a transparent society:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Transparent_Society](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Transparent_Society)

(I'm not yet convinced one way or another, but his arguments are thought-
provoking.)

------
mjpuser
In all fairness, he doesn't look blind. There are many people with sight that
have a service dog.

~~~
avehn
Unless the service dog has an "In Training" jacket, the person holding the
service dog's harness is legally blind.

~~~
cmdrfred
Is that true? It seems I can just fill out a form and pay these people $63 and
my dog would then be a "service dog".

[https://www.servicedogcertifications.org/service-dog-
id/](https://www.servicedogcertifications.org/service-dog-id/)

~~~
detaro
From their "information" page: _Service Dog Certifications does not certify or
authorize anyone to use a Service Animal — nor is certification required by
law. The privilege to use a Service or Assistance Animal is granted, under the
law, by the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and local governments._

They give you a piece of paper that says "service dog", that doesn't make it a
service dog in the legal sense.

~~~
cmdrfred
Why does anyone buy this product then? It seems to be effective enough to get
your dog on a plane according to the testimonials.

~~~
uremog
Probably because it's made to look like it does something. Sometimes that's
all you need to get people to buy.

And yet, they (probably) make no false claims so they are not breaking the
law.

------
macintux
For a deafblind person's take on consumer technology and some of the same
problems described in that article, I recommend [http://www.molly-watt-
trust.org](http://www.molly-watt-trust.org).

------
tjpaudio
I would be curious to hear his experience in other cities. It would be a great
way to figure if this is a cultural issue specific to a region or if people
really are generally terrible.

~~~
pavel_lishin
I would wager it's a large-city thing in general; I've noticed people walking
by an obviously blind woman in the subway in New York, and offered to help her
get to her train.

(It was a little awkward, because I don't know any blind people, and wasn't
sure how to help her - I started out offering my arm, then realized she
couldn't see it, then sort of slid it under hers, and she jerked away. I felt
like an asshole; clearly I should have asked her what she would prefer, or at
least announced what I was going to do. So if anyone else is ever in the same
situation, think about it a little more than I did.)

~~~
Starwatcher2001
Nice one for offering her help. I was taught to ask if the person would like
"a sighted guide", and if they respond positively to follow up with "would you
like me on your left or right side?"

~~~
pavel_lishin
I did ask her if she wanted help, since she seemed a little lost, and she said
yes, and seemed glad someone offered. I definitely should have asked for a
little more instruction on how to help.

I've seen her now and then in the same subway station, so she may have been
starting a new work commute.

------
innocentoldguy
I worked at the Library of Congress for many years, in the area that provides
various services to the blind (e.g. sending audiobooks and braille books to
blind patrons across the country, helping with research, reading textbooks,
etc.). I worked with blind patrons on a daily basis, learned to type and read
braille, learned the etiquettes of leading blind people, etc. I offer this
information to quell any reader concerns that I "don't understand" for my
following remarks.

This was an interesting article, I think, because it touches on the feelings
and fears of not knowing where you are, not being able to discern your
surroundings directly, and not receiving help. It also touches on the feelings
and fears that a lot of people have, when confronted with a condition that
they aren't familiar with. I think the people who ignored Dr. Patel were
probably thinking, "What do I do?" rather than, "That guy can't see me, so if
I'm really quiet, maybe he'll go away." People tend to fear that they're going
to offend or insult, so they don't offer help. Either that, or they're not
sure how to help, so they sit there panicking themselves into a paralysis.
I've seen both things happen, and talking about it is a good way to overcome
these types of situations.

There was one aspect of the article that I feel was a bad attitude to take on
Dr. Patel's part. In the article, Patel says, "Eventually when the staff
member actually came to me the first thing he said was 'sorry I didn't see
you' and that really bugged me. He wouldn't say that to someone who wasn't
visually impaired."

Actually, he would. That is a common phrase that people say to other people
all the time. We also say, "I'm sorry, I didn't hear you," but only because we
didn't. It isn't some micro-aggression against deaf people. When I worked at
the Library of Congress, we dealt with this with new volunteers all the time.
People wouldn't know how to respond, so they would be afraid to stick out
their elbow, and let a blind person hold on for guidance. They didn't know
what to do, and their uncertainty paralyzed them. These new volunteers didn't
come to insult and mock the blind people they had come to help. They just
found themselves in a new and uncertain situation, and acted awkwardly, like
people tend to do. Once they were told what the best course of action was,
they never had this problem again.

I think people are conditioned to take WAY more offense nowadays than is
intended, and I think it would be in our own best interest to stop this sort
of self-righteous indignation. Whether someone doesn't see you, ignores you,
or blatantly gets in your face. It is ultimately your choice to be hurt and
offended by it. Just choose not to be. I think that will do wonders for mutual
understanding and opening dialogues.

I used to work with a blind man who would say to people, "I know you're there.
I can hear you. I just need you to tell me which direction to go. I promise
not to bite." Then he'd laugh, and set everyone around him at ease. He
understood people's reactions, and helped them overcome their uncertainty by
offering guidance. This always seemed to be a better solution for all
involved, rather than getting angry and irritated. Especially when people's
behaviors are being driven by uncertainty, rather than insult.

I apologize for letting my response get a bit long.

~~~
pavel_lishin
I agree, it seemed like an innocuous statement to me as well. I wonder if he's
extra sensitive about it because of the sudden onset of the blindness, and how
recently it had occurred for him - only about five years ago.

I'm not convinced that most people were too afraid they were going to insult
him to help; I think they were probably hoping (and assuming) that someone
else was going to take care of it, so they can go on with their commute. Maybe
he just needs to know which set of stairs is for the northbound track, or
maybe he'll explain that he actually needs to be taken somewhere that'll take
you an hour out of your way, and then you'd have to either do that or explain
that you won't, etc., etc.

------
bencollier49
Edit: Apologies, I was wrong here due to the personal use exemption to the
DPA. Uploading images to public forums could be an issue, though.

~~~
pavel_lishin
> _Same as anyone using a Go-Pro._

Can you go into some more details? Does this mean that tourists technically
can't wander around with a go-pro strapped to their chest without registering,
or does this apply only to UK citizens - and does it mean that _they_ can't do
that when visiting London?

How far does that stretch? Does taking a video on a phone count?

------
skynetv2
interesting article but the title is misleading

------
Arzh
To be fair I try to ignore everyone, not just the homeless and blind.

~~~
pavel_lishin
Even when they clearly need help and are calling out for someone?

Even when you see someone who clearly needs to sit walking towards a seat that
you also want to sit in and are closer to?

I get your joke, but it's not really "being fair".

~~~
1_2__3
It's not a joke, and yes, it's fair. Walk down a street in San Francisco,
you'll walk past literally dozens of people literally screaming for help. Feel
free to try, report back after the inevitable complete and utter disaster.

Nobody is under any obligation to interact with people around them, and nobody
deserves to be shamed for wanting to live their own lives and let other people
live theirs.

~~~
Veratyr
> Nobody is under any obligation to interact with people around them, and
> nobody deserves to be shamed for wanting to live their own lives and let
> other people live theirs.

This illustrates a pretty big cultural difference to me, as an Australian. The
US is very big on individualism in what mostly seems to be an "every man for
himself" kind of way. It's strong enough that I've seen people reject things
that would be in their own interest solely because it removes a little of
their autonomy (I talked to someone who rejected universal healthcare solely
because they would no longer have the choice to have no healthcare at all).

At home in Australia, we're not all perfect, we don't all love each other but
we seem to be more happy to accept things that benefit us as a country (like
healthcare, support for the disabled, unemployment support, consumer rights,
employment regulation). We live our lives and we let others live theirs but I
think we tend to help each other out a little more, knowing that we'll need
help ourselves sometime.

------
maddy237
I pity his sweet little dog. Bless her.

~~~
Johnny555
Why pity the dog? She's a working dog with a purpose and gets to spend 100% of
her day with her owner.

~~~
tgb
The article says: "[the dog] was getting hit by peoples' bags and she was
getting a lot of abuse."

~~~
Johnny555
After seeing how hard my dog plays - she will literally ran at the other dog
and get knocked down and roll around on the ground, I think she'd be happy to
get knocked by a few bags every day if it meant she could hang out with me all
day long. Even more so if she had more purpose than just chasing a ball for me
or carrying the mail into the house. (tip - put the junk mail on the outside
to absorb slobber)

------
tantalor
_Watching, all the time watching... goggle-eye geeks..._

[http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=861](http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=861)

~~~
canadian_voter
<blockquote> Garygoyles represent the embarrasing side of the Central
Intelligence Corporation. Instead of using laptops, they wear their computers
on their bodies, broken up into seperate modules that hang on the waist, on
the back, on the headset. They serve as human surveillance devices, recording
everything that happens around them. <... snip ...>

The CIC brass can't stand these guys because they upload staggering quantities
of useless information to the database, on the off chance that some of it will
eventually be useful. It's like writing down the license number of every car
you see on your way to work each morning, just in case one of them will be
involved in a hit-and-run accident. Even the CIC database can only hold so
much garbage. So, usually, these habitual gargoyles get kicked out of the CIC
before too long. </blockquote>

\-- Neal Stephenson, _Snow Crash_ (1992)

Almost as quaint has "three megabytes of hot RAM".

