
Consumer DNA tests revealing misattributed parentage - prostoalex
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/07/dna-test-misattributed-paternity/562928/?single_page=true
======
dm8
There was an interesting thread on reddit where people were sharing their
experiences with DNA tests and their parentage/ancestry. I was surprised with
sheer number of them being listed/shared there. I never considered DNA tests
will have such a weird side effects. It's a fascinating to see how much
science or scientific tests in future can lead to weird results (not that I'm
condoning cheating or anything) -

Thread for the interested -
[https://np.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/comments/7mu9zn/there...](https://np.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/comments/7mu9zn/theres_probably_some_women_out_there_whose/)

EDIT: And every now and then you see these threads -
[https://np.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/8iq8hu/my_parents_a...](https://np.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/8iq8hu/my_parents_are_now_divorcing_because_of_my_results/)

More meta questions - will DNA testing result in fidelity of relationships or
some sort of regulation where you are not allowed to tell these uncomfortable
truths?

Regardless, I'm fascinated by DNA and how much it can reveal about ourselves.
Not to mention emerging trends like CRISPR.

~~~
tanbog
Maybe part of the issue is an over-emphasis on "fidelity". People have always
played around - or to be frank, many women have been assaulted and had to keep
it quiet - maybe the best outcome would be more open communication and
understanding between couples rather than even more prescriptive social norms
about how relationships should work.

~~~
mirimir
It's not so much about fidelity as honesty.

~~~
1000units
In any case, getting raped isn't a breach of fidelity.

~~~
mirimir
Never said that.

Edit: But I gotta say that I'd expect my wife to share if she'd been raped.
And especially if she had gotten pregnant, and had chosen to have the child.
Without that level of honesty in a marriage, there arguably isn't actually a
marriage. That may seem harsh, I know. But hey, I got it from Landmark. For
what it's worth, while responsibility and honesty are considered key values,
there is no blame.

------
555anon
Regarding the misattributed paternity numbers/rates:

Obviously interviewing people isn't going to reveal the correct numbers: If a
mother isn't going to tell her child, or doesn't know [switched in the
maternity ward, chimera, multiple partners] chances are they aren't going to
tell some random researcher either.

However, there was some interesting research at a hospital in the UK (maybe
Bristol ?) which tested the men which were present at the birth of the child
against the child, and the numbers are rather high - something above 1 in 20.
And this is for the men that were present.

Something which should be more common knowledge.

~~~
dotancohen
There is every reason to believe that this is strongly influenced by culture.

Perhaps the Swedish have a higher incidence, and the Saudis lower. One should
not look at a single study in a single place at a single time, that depends
almost entirely on human behaviour, and extrapolate to humans as a whole.

~~~
marchenko
The actual rate of non-paternity in western societies is closer to 3%. The
10-20% figures that appear regularly on the internet are largely derived from
rates of non-paternity in cases were paternity was questioned (i.e. pre-
existing suspicions of infidelity). The higher ranges quoted (30% is the
highest I have seen) are generally from small study populations with extended
periods of partner absence, like central American itinerant laborers or
African truck drivers.

------
hugh4life
A little OT and most here probably already know, but genetic
genealogy(GEDmatch basically) is starting to be used to solve rape and murder
cases.

Here's a recent murder case solved a couple weeks ago they announced just on
friday that they used genetic genealogy:
[http://providencejournal.com/news/20180727/how-dna-and-
tatto...](http://providencejournal.com/news/20180727/how-dna-and-tattoo-led-
to-charges-in-cold-ri-murder-case)

And here's the first instance that I know of of a non-fatal rape case where
the technology was used.

[https://www.thespectrum.com/story/news/2018/07/28/79-year-
ol...](https://www.thespectrum.com/story/news/2018/07/28/79-year-old-woman-
raped-assaulted-her-st-george-home/855583002/)

~~~
bayesian_horse
It's a good way to work around privacy issues like offenders not
wanting/bothering to have their DNA registered.

That's one of the reasons I believe people tend to be a little too protective
of their genetic information. For one thing we spread it around, constantly.
For another, all our relatives have some or most of that information too.

~~~
hugh4life
It's not really collection that's the big issue... the big issue is that the
federal DNA database only stores a very small portion of the DNA so familial
searches on it are only accurate up to 1st cousins. And there are privacy and
disparate impact on minorities(everyone caught thus far with GEDMatch has been
white IIRC) complaints with using the federal database for familial searches.
With GED Match you can go much deeper(at least to 3rd cousins but IIRC
potentially up to 5th) in the family tree than the federal DNA database would
allow.

There are about 1 million law enforcement personnel in the US which is about
how many samples are in the GEDMatch database... a pretty powerful database
could be created just from the samples from law enforcement personnel.

------
londons_explore
Some countries, like for example France, make DNA tests pretty much illegal to
prevent discovering painful truths like this.

~~~
rjdagost
The French government claims that fatherhood is determined by society, and not
biology. That is a very unscientific law.

~~~
crumbshot
> _The French government claims that fatherhood is determined by society_

It is. A child does not need to be genetically related to their parents.
Adoption is a common practice.

~~~
paidleaf
Legal fatherhood is determined by law. Biological fatherhood is determined by
science/genetics. Also, adoption isn't a common practice. Adoptions happen,
but they are rare.

Ideally, legal and biological fatherhood should be one and the same. That way
you can find your genetic history for medical purposes and legal family tree
for historical purposes. But tragically, in a few cases, legal and biological
fathers are not the same.

~~~
crumbshot
> _Ideally [...] But tragically,_

This is of course a value judgement. I'm sure many adoptees would disagree
with your assessment that their situation is tragic.

~~~
paidleaf
> This is of course a value judgement.

It's a biological and common sense judgment.

> I'm sure many adoptees would disagree with your assessment that their
> situation is tragic.

Ideally ( all things being equal ), adoptees would want to be with their
"ideal" biological parents. Of course if the biological parents are dead,
abusive or too poor to provide for them ( tragic ), then adoption is better
than nothing. But I can't think of any child who wouldn't want to be with
their biological parents all things being equal.

~~~
crumbshot
Appealing to common sense doesn't make your argument more appealing.

I mean, I could similarly assume the ideal to be mass incubation in artificial
wombs, followed by randomly selected adoption.

------
dotancohen
Best line of the fine article, in relation to the discovery by DNA testing of
secret infidelity and rape:

> It’s getting harder and harder to keep secrets in our society

That motif seems to be permeating deeper and deeper into every aspect of
modern life.

~~~
sandworm101
I went to law school with a former ER doctor. When a teenager (<16) would show
up in labor, he said there was a 30% chance her child's father was her father
too. The doctors duty was to the patient(s) and breaking up the family by
reporting was not in her best interests. The prevalence of DNA tests is going
to make such coverups impossible.

~~~
swiley
It would be best if we could decouple documentation from prosecution. The fact
that it isn’t is how you end up with situations like that where people can’t
talk about rape.

~~~
sandworm101
Careful, that's a breath away from decriminalizing pedophilia. The daughter is
still a child, the father a sex offender who in any other circumstance would
be crucified. The internet doesn't react well to such ideas.

Im all for allowing doctors some discretion in testing, but non-prosecution
cannot be public policy.

~~~
matheusmoreira
You said there was a ~30% chance a teenager in labor had been abused by her
father. It can be inferred that in ~70% of cases the teenager had not been
abused by her father.

Should people prosecute the father of every pregnant teenager despite the 70%
chance of him being innocent?

~~~
sandworm101
No, this is about testing that might detect those 30%. A doctor, not wanting
to discover something that he might have to report, will avoid certain tests
or questions. Blanket testing for things like genetics would remove that
wiggle room, discovering all the family secrets.

~~~
Fjolsvith
Illegal family secrets.

------
logronoide
I dated a girl in the nineties that worked at a maternity ward in a very
popular hospital. She said that just comparing blood types five to ten percent
of the babies did not belong to the mother’s couple. And of course doctors and
nurses never said a word.

~~~
qubex
Another reason to not want kids.

~~~
logronoide
Kids have nothing to do with the honesty of your partner.

~~~
sacado2
I'm pretty sure qubex means he does not want to raise someone else's kid, let
alone his own.

~~~
qubex
Pretty much, or rather: I’d rather not be invested in the future beyond my
death. My partner and I have sometimes discussed adoption (despite being able
to conceive) and maybe we’ll go that route if and when stuff settles down
enough for uncertainty to reach manageable levels.

------
RyJones
I found an older half sister via one of these tests. The demotion from oldest
to second oldest has been a bitter pill, but having a new older sister is
pretty neat!

~~~
technofiend
I found my father through one, sadly he never had any other children. It would
have been fun to instantly gain some new siblings. Because I first met him
well into my adulthood it was interesting to learn his likes and dislikes
since there's no question he didn't directly influence anything I did or
didn't do.

We're both avid readers, we both like to live clutter-free lifestyles, we both
like to travel. I learned to fly as a hobby and seriously considered it as a
career, he was a pilot in the armed services and then professionally until he
retired. We both like to go fast: I drove a late 60's Mustang in college, he
had a Porsche speedster. Really the only thing we're opposed on is politics as
he says "he's slightly to the right of Genghis Khan."

~~~
RyJones
Talking with my new sister certainly has changed my opinions on nature versus
nurture and freewill.

------
apo
_... “This generation right now and maybe the next 15 years or so, there’s
going to be a lot of shocking results coming out. I’d say in 20 years’ time
it’s going to dissipate,” she predicted. By then, our expectations of privacy
will have caught up with the new reality created by the rise of consumer DNA
tests._

This reminds me of a discussion in which people were speculating about things
that would not exist in the future.

There were many candidates: cancer; hunger; racism; and so on.

By far the most insightful comment came from the person who said "privacy." I
don't think most people are ready for that future; it's almost unimaginable.

~~~
syshum
One can not have freedom with out privacy. As we destroy the concept of
privacy we also destroy the concept of freedom.

It will be interesting how civilization handles it. We are starting to see
some signs of push back, but unfortunely people are turning to governments and
authoritarianism as a "solution".

IMO we are at at fork in civilization, and it seems we are choosing the less
free, less private path

~~~
Bromskloss
> One can not have freedom with out privacy.

Why is that? I want both, but I think they are different things.

~~~
syshum
How can you be free if you are under continual surveillance your ever action
judged in real time on mass, your ever past action judged based on the current
feelings of the day, your every comment, word spoken, person you interacted
with, etc judged and recriminated on a on going basis.

Every movement monitored, every interaction recorded.

Are you free in such a society? I say no....

~~~
Bromskloss
I take "free" to mean that no one else decides what I should do.

~~~
syshum
So if a mugger has a gun to your head and say "Your money or your life" do you
have freedom because you have a choice to choose???

No one is deciding if you should choose to give up your money

That may be hyperbolic but it is the logical conclusion to your statement.

This same argument is used by people to justify their mob mentality when going
after people for wrong think and target their employment, and business
relationships while claiming to support free speech believing that free speech
is only violated if government is censoring

I reject this idea that freedom is only limited by governments

~~~
Bromskloss
> So if a mugger has a gun to your head and say "Your money or your life" do
> you have freedom because you have a choice to choose???

That would be a prototypical case of _not_ being free.

------
tathougies
You mean misattributed paternity. Misattributed parentage happens mainly to
men. It's a much more involved process to defraud a woman of her child than a
man.

~~~
waterhouse
I guess the two mechanisms that come to mind:

1\. Drug and kidnap the woman, implant an embryo that isn't hers, and bring
her back home without her finding out.

2\. Switch the baby with another plausible-looking one in the hospital. (I
have heard this happens more than one might expect.
[http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1998-08-16/features/1998228...](http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1998-08-16/features/1998228086_1_bracelet-
delivery-room-baby-id) says "About 28,000 babies get switched in hospitals
every year, temporarily or permanently, out of four million births", though
"most mistakes are fixed before the baby leaves the hospital".)

~~~
mbreese
An IVF mixup is another...

Or a kid who was unknowingly raised by their grandparents is an example where
you’d see both parents misattributed.

~~~
toomanybeersies
> Or a kid who was unknowingly raised by their grandparents is an example
> where you’d see both parents misattributed.

I know a guy who this happened to. He got a Mormon girl pregnant and was
basically paid to go away, and the child was raised by the grandparents.

------
amelius
Imagine that you are the one doing customer support at one of these companies
...

