

Postgres Now the Default Database for Mac OS X Server - pixdamix
http://momjian.us/main/blogs/pgblog/2011.html#July_25_2011

======
gmac
The site is timing out for me right now.

Still, whatever the reason for the switch (is Oracle involved?), this seems
like a good new default.

I've found Postgres capable, fast, and rock-solid. (At the point I switched
from MySQL, a few years ago, I'd be tempted to say that it had approximately
none of those three going for it. I'll be happy to hear that MySQL has
improved meanwhile, though: is there any particular reason I might consider
switching back?).

~~~
Someone
Wherever possible, Apple selects BSD-style over GPL (see e.g. wget vs curl,
gcc vs clang)

Worse, MySQL seems to go for a strict interpretation of the GPL
(<http://www.mysql.com/about/legal/licensing/index.html>):

"For OEMs, ISVs, and VARs who distribute MySQL with their products, and do not
license and distribute their source code under the GPL, MySQL provides a
flexible OEM Commercial License."

Compare that with <http://www.postgresql.org/about/licence>:

"PostgreSQL is released under the PostgreSQL License, a liberal Open Source
license, similar to the BSD or MIT licenses."

~~~
pluies
Why would that bit of the license be a problem? (real question, no snark
involved)

Apple's version of MySQL on Snow Leopard was GPL and distributed on Apple's
own website : <http://www.opensource.apple.com/release/mac-os-x-1068/>

Postgres' source on Lion is now available at :
<http://www.opensource.apple.com/release/mac-os-x-107/>

~~~
Someone
An interpretation of that clause would be that Apple either has to release Mac
OS X under the GPL, or get that commercial license (I haven't checked, but it
probably isn't free).

I do not think the GPL license implies that, and as another poster said, that
interpretation would probably not hold in court, but why take the risk?

Also, shipping this in the past does not imply they were happy doing that.
They might have found the alternatives not good enough before, just like they
did with gcc/clang (I am not sure gcc is completely out yet, but it certainly
is on the way out)

~~~
icebraining
They would obviously not have to release OS X under the GPL, but they could be
forced to release the applications using the client libraries. On the other
hand, this has been true for years; this policy was created by MySQL AB, even
before Sun bought them.

------
danfried
Congrats to the Postgres guys. Even if this is for primarily licensing
reasons, pgsql is a solid, powerful database that's easily more powerful than
MySQL, and is slowly making gains against Oracle. It's underused, and lacking
in name recognition, but hopefully this is the first step towards changing
that.

~~~
lysol
Agreed. We're a Postgres shop at work, and the few times I've had to bust out
MySQL for a side gig because of client requirements I lament the lack of
functions and transactional DDL. It feels like a toy.

~~~
rimantas
Powering Facebook and Wikipedia is not bad for a toy.

~~~
lysol
I'm talking about relative perception. Obviously MySQL is doing something
right.

------
ralfd
It will be interesting how a discussion (if there is one) on Hacker News will
differ from Reddit. There the forty comments did fall in two categories:

1\. There is a Server Version?

2\. It is spelled OS X without a slash.

~~~
Pewpewarrows
Agreed. While reddit's great for many conversations that never occur on HN,
tech discussions are definitely not their forte.

~~~
awj
I wouldn't go _that_ far. I've had some great tech discussions on reddit.
Things seem to devolve like this whenever the discussion starts to close in on
a topic that any idiot can comment on. There are many of them there, and they
do.

------
nettdata
Having upgraded to Lion Server on one of my boxes, I found that Postgres was
indeed running. Or at least trying to run. It seems that the permissions
weren't set properly on the conf file or data directories, so my log was
filling up with "failure to start" messages as it tried to launch Postgres
every 10 seconds. Even a "repair permissions" failed to solve the problem, and
I had to manually go in and change some ownerships from the root user to
_postgres.

Not sure if this is just my issue, but if you did upgrade to Server, you might
want to check your system's log file.

------
tibbon
I take this as great news. Postgres is my preferred SQL database. I wish I
could articulate better why I don't like MySQL as much, but it just feels
'strange' in comparison.

------
callahad
As a nice perk, all of the core client binaries [0] (and pg_upgrade [1]) are
already present without having Mac OS X Server installed.

That includes: clusterdb, createdb, createlang, createuser, dropdb, droplang,
dropuser, ecpg, pg_config, pg_dump, pg_dumpall, pg_restore, pg_upgrade, psql,
reindexdb, and vacuumdb.

Unfortunately, it doesn't include any of the server binaries: initdb,
pg_controldata, pg_ctl, pg_resetxlog, postgres, or postmaster.

For the curious, I've pasted the output of pg_config at
<http://www.pastie.org/2275197>

[0]: [http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.0/static/reference-
client.h...](http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.0/static/reference-client.html)

[1]: <http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.0/static/pgupgrade.html>

------
mrinterweb
I was under the impression that Apple was discontinuing their XServe product
line after Jan 31st 2011. If this is the case, what hardware are people
running OS X Server on?
[http://www.macworld.com/article/155483/2010/11/xserve_discon...](http://www.macworld.com/article/155483/2010/11/xserve_discontinued.html)

~~~
reaganing
Apple sells versions of the Mac mini and Mac Pro as servers.

They're also selling Lion Server as an add-on in the Mac App Store for other
systems.

------
ehutch79
does this mean we'll get a better osx gui for interacting with postgres? all i
could find is navicat and it kind of suck.

~~~
gmac
pgAdmin? <http://www.pgadmin.org/>

~~~
pak
Egh, pgAdmin doesn't feel native at all. I wish there were a Sequel Pro
(<http://www.sequelpro.com/>) for postgres, with a proper Cocoa UI. Once you
use Sequel Pro going back to anything less friendly is a real grind.

------
Tyrannosaurs
Anyone any idea what version they're using?

~~~
swaits
RTFA.

~~~
Tyrannosaurs
I did, it's not stated. If I've missed it can you quote it please but I've
looked at both the article and the linked article.

