

Ask HN: Is it right to call yourself a Hacker? - k0n2ad

Ok, so someone comes up to you and asks you these seemingly simple questions: "So what do you do? What are you?" Oh boy! You think about it for a bit. Software Engineer? Well, you're a programmer and you write business apps, but you've also played with assembly and know what O-notation is... so not quite. Computer Scientist? Well, you also know a lot about computer networks, and you've modded your computer on multiple occasions (you've used a soldering iron)... so not quite. You also know your way around a Linux box. So what the heck do you call yourself, without being self-limiting or bombastic about it? I want to reply, "Well, I'm a hacker" - because the term is somewhat all encompassing (and the term "geek" makes me think of someone with no life outside of computers). But isn't it kind of pompous to claim that you're a "hacker?" Is it a term you should self-apply? What do you guys think?<p>"Now, 'Dude', there's a name no man would self-apply where I come from. But then there was a lot about the Dude that didn't make a whole lot of sense..."
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Aegean
Now that this subject is open, let me say it: I don't think the term hacker
really reflects the concept of Hacker News. Startups are focused on
entrepreneurship and revenue, there is a hacker side to it but the hacker
aspect is not the central point. If there would be a real hacker news,
building exceptional or interesting technology would be more of a central
point than entrepreneurship. E.g. Grand Challenge, or some new technology that
would change the way internet works.

~~~
mechanical_fish
_I don't think the term hacker really reflects the concept of Hacker News._

Sure, but what one word could? I'm not sure there's any word that you could
replace it with that would work better.

The mandate of the site is "stuff that would be interesting to a hacker; i.e.
an intelligent person who tinkers."

"Exceptional or interesting technology" is 100% on-topic. Please submit some
more of it! This site isn't necessarily _meant_ to be "entrepreneur news". One
may ask why, therefore, there are so many business-centric articles; I think
it's probably because there's a critical mass of YC people here (both funded
entrepreneurs, potential applicants, and interested fans). The community works
with a lot of different technologies, and a lot of different hobbies which wax
and wane over time, but YC people are by definition very interested in
business and they're interested _right now_.

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maxdemarzi
When other people call you a "Hacker", then you are a "Hacker".... until then
you are a "Software Developer".

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ax0n
I wholeheartedly agree with the first part of this statement. I've been called
a "hacker" plenty of times, and once that happens, I say it's fair to call
yourself one, but not before.

No one would have ever called me a software developer. There are many kinds of
hackers, and not all of them are coders or developers.

~~~
seven
I whole heartedly disagree with the first part of your statement. I considered
me to be a hacker long time before I got called 'hacker' by my peers and
clients.

As I already wrote, I do tell some people that I am a hacker. Most of the
times this a result of the question: 'So you are a hacker?' After I explained
what I do.

Saying you are only a hacker if your peers call you that just raises the
mystery around the term hacker.

Last part of your statement I fully agree to. Hacking at first has nothing to
do with software or hardware. For me it is using stuff in a way that is was
not intent to be used. Being in Africa right now, I see a lot of clever hacks,
where people use for example climate control devices to get more or less clean
water, reusing garbage to build new stuff and so on.

I am more concerned about the phrase 'expert'. This is imo something you can
not label yourself. And even if.. it sounds always kind of strange to me.

~~~
ax0n
++ on "expert"

But seriously, it seems "hacker" is thrown in self-reference too much. While
anyone can do something clever to perform "a hack," to actually be a "hacker"
takes a mind-set, not an accomplishment.

People can become hackers by taking on that mind-set, and they may very well
be a tenable hacker without having been gifted the label by another.

I'll agree with many other comments though, in saying that "hacker" is a label
that should only be used among folks who you are relatively certain already
understand the concept. Example: Calling yourself a hacker over a business
lunch with non-technical investors? Bad idea. Always. Even if you really are
one.

Either way, critical thinkers should be able to condense their function to a
single sentence without pulling out stigma-laden memes. They should also
recognize that "What do you do?" deserves a response more four words long.

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mattmaroon
I don't think I'd ever use that term. To someone who doesn't know what it is,
it sounds shady. To someone who does know, it's overly vague. It's like saying
"I'm a businessman."

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edw519
Fair: Answer with a noun, "I am a computer programmer."

Good: Answer with a verb, "I program computers."

Better: Answer with a verb for myself and a noun for the result, "I program
web applications."

Even Better: Answer with a verb for myself, a noun for the result, and another
noun for my customer, "I program web applications for doctors."

Best: Answer with a verb for myself, a noun for the result, another noun for
my customer, and another noun to describe my customers' benefits, "I program
web applications that help doctors give better care to their patients."

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icey
I used to spend a lot of time figuring out which way I would describe what I
did to people who weren't in the industry.

Now I just say that I'm in software, and it turns out that's enough 95% of the
time.

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dmlorenzetti
How many regular HN readers think of themselves foremost as computer
programmers (by whatever name)?

The responses posted here so far make it sound like the solid majority. Yet
there must be more people on here who, like me, just happen to do a lot of
programming in the course of pursuing other goals.

In short, I tend to tell people "I do xxx, which involves writing a lot of
code" (rather than saying "I'm a programmer"). For this reason, I often find
the self-representation here a bit strange. I tend to think of programming as
just a tool to get work done, rather than the work in of itself. A lot of HN
comments read to me as if a carpenter described his job as "swinging a
hammer."

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jlgosse
I just tell people I'm a software developer, because all I do is develop
software.

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showerst
My title is "User Interface Engineer". I tell people "I'm a Professional Nerd
for (X)".

It shows that I have a sense of humor about my job (a job that to many people
is inscrutable).

Many people in our own field don't know the difference between a web
designer/developer/programmer/UI/UX/DBA, and I figure that I'll take a crack
at whatever needs to get done, so why be limited to a label?

I feel like hacker has too many negative connotations outside our tiny
community that 'gets it', especially since I live in DC, which is more
traditional about this stuff.

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c_allison
I would say it depends on the person your talking to. To most people, a
"hacker" is a "cracker". A geek, loves card games and anime. A nerd loves
thick books. But a programmer? They do magical things to computers, something
people acceptedly don't understand, and theres no hard stereotypes regarding.

You certainly don't want to have to describe yourself too much. The more you
try to describe, the less credibility you'll have. In my opinion, _programmer_
is wonderfully enchanting to people who are not versed in... hacker lingo.

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seven
I do sometimes tell people that I am a hacker. But I make sure that the people
do know or understand that I am refering to the original meaning of the word;
and that I am a good guy. For me, boiling an egg in a coffee machine is
hacking. I do a lot of security work, but I tell the people that even if I
would have nothing to do with security, I still could be a hacker.

About self-applying, imo this is ok if you can tell me about your last hack
when I ask you about it.

..."Obviously you’re not a golfer."

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ax0n
I usually just tell normal people that I work with computers or that I keep
bad guys out of bank accounts. It's a word that one can use in self-reference,
but only once you've been accepted by other hackers as being one.

It doesn't apply only to the word "hacker", though. Many labels don't mean
much until you've really earned it and been validated by peers.

~~~
colbyolson
Assuming you work in the security side of tech, would it be possible to ask
you a few questions regarding your career? I'm confused about starting my own.
:-)

~~~
ax0n
I do infosec in the financial industry, mostly UNIX, but a little mainframe
and windows stuff as well when needed. I believe you can find my email address
in my profile. Feel free to contact me.

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mtinkerhess
The problem with calling yourself a hacker is that inevitably non-hackers
don't understand what you mean. Then you have to explain yourself, and you end
up seeming more interested in how you are labeled than what you do.

That or you end up sounding like Lex from Jurassic Park who "prefer(s) to be
called a hacker".

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statictype
Depending on the person asking and whether or not I'm in a conversing mood,
I'd use either 'programmer' or "I do computer stuff" while making that vague
and silly typing-on-keyboard gesture with my hand.

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notaddicted
I call myself a _computer programmer_ because I program computers.
Administration, Theory, Hardware, Engineering, those I consider supporting
skills, not the main attraction.

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iterationx
Calling yourself a hacker makes you look like an egomaniac.

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igorgue
My friends and family say I "type in colors"

~~~
apgwoz
I'm going to use that when I see family for the Holidays--it's perfect.

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bitwize
I tell people I program robot submarines.

And wait for the awesome to hit them.

~~~
bd
So you do this? :)

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rpterEeRY8>

~~~
bitwize
No. That's our competitor. And uh, they can keep that project :)

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CrLf
The real meaning of the word "hacker" has been lost forever (even in technical
circles) so, no, I don't call myself an "hacker".

If I know the audience will understand it properly, I'll call myself a "geek".
Otherwise, I'll just call myself a "computer systems administrator".

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moron4hire
I tell people I'm a mad scientist.

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hc
dude just say this: "i am a programmer and i write business apps, but i've
also played with assembly and know what O-notation is. I also know a lot about
computer networks, and i've modded my computer on multiple occasions (I used a
soldering iron)."

