
Android O Beta Program - madmax108
https://www.google.com/android/beta
======
schwank
My Nexus 6P died last night after <2 years of service, and my wife's first 5X
died after only 4 months. Now that the Pixel is priced as a premium device in
line with the iPhone and other flagships, I find myself considering a non-
Google phone for the first time since the N1 was released.

Given the short support curve for most Android devices from Google and
especially from third parties, that device is quite likely to be an iPhone.
What was unthinkable to me just a few short years ago is now reality... I type
this on a MBP and I might be convert my phone platform now as well. A true
testament to the constant change in the marketplace, and the need to evaluate
based on features and performance rather than fanboism.

~~~
jknightco
Just to provide a counterpoint: I'm still rocking a 3.5 year old Nexus 5 with
almost zero evidence of its age (the battery discharges a bit faster than it
used to but it's not noticeable enough to even warrant a new battery).

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fulafel
You have been out of security support for a long time - apps, web pages and
video clips can pwn your device.

~~~
plaguuuuuu
That's surprisingly terrible. Unbelievable. To think that Google can't even
support its own devices after _3 years_ whilst the Linux ecosystem supports a
silly number of devices and platforms, substantially on a volunteer basis

~~~
pawadu
Speaking of voluntarily basis, here is 7.1.1 on the N5:

[https://download.lineageos.org/hammerhead](https://download.lineageos.org/hammerhead)

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losvedir
I did this beta program for Android N back in the day but had to revert
because, uh, Pokemon Go didn't work on it. I'm embarrassed to admit I'm still
playing.... but can anyone confirm whether Pokemon Go works for them on the
Android O beta?

~~~
bergie
Seems to work fine on the O beta (Nexus 6P)

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taeric
No nexus 6 support. Sad face.

The shelf life of phones is embarrassingly low. For no apparent reason.

~~~
forkbomb_
The real issue for the Nexus 6 is that Qualcomm has completely abandoned their
32-bit mobile platforms. Look for "8084" here:
[https://wiki.codeaurora.org/xwiki/bin/QAEP/release](https://wiki.codeaurora.org/xwiki/bin/QAEP/release)
\- the Snapdragon 805 hasn't received a release since August 2016.

So, Google did an in-house bringup for 7.0 - and "normal" OEMs aren't able to
do that. Qualcomm usually provides a lot of pre-compiled binaries to the OEM,
which either require nasty hacks to work on newer versions of Android (which
won't pass CTS - so can't be shipped), or just straight up don't work. The
blame here rests largely with chip manufacturers and their short support
cycles.

Of course, LineageOS[1] remains an option if you're looking for extended
support for the Nexus 6. (disclaimer, I'm a device maintainer for Lineage)

[1]: [https://lineageos.org/](https://lineageos.org/)

~~~
pas
And do they need a new kernel so desperately?

I don't understand the problems with backward compatibility. They already
provide it via the Android SDK (the support library).

Java/Dex/Dalvik/ART or whatever it's called now that runs the shit works on
Linux 3.0 probably. (Android 2.3 was released with Linux 2.6.35 [+ patches, I
assume && hope], and that's currently the lowest supported API Level (that is
api level 9)).

~~~
forkbomb_
The kernel isn't the problem - one of the devices I maintain runs 7.1 (mostly)
fine on Linux 3.0[1]. The issues lie in the HALs - which translate between the
standard Android camera/sensor/telephony APIs and the vendor's implementation
in the kernel. These are device-specific, and usually provided to the OEM by a
HW/chipset manufacturer.

Google is generally pretty good about keeping source compatibility, but ABIs
change, and sometimes completely unrelated changes break everything for no
obvious reason. Some things I've encountered include:

* sensor blobs crashing when using a clang-built libc, but working with a gcc-built one.

* blobs crashing when using jemalloc, but not dlmalloc (dlmalloc was removed with 7.0).

* Vendors introducing hacks in the OS - workarounds to deal with broken HW media encoders (which misinterpret pixel formats), misbehaving GL blobs, or devices which expect one pixel format for their display when the system provides another (e.g. RGB vs BGR).

* closed-source OpenGL drivers which use-after-free - the bug's probably existed since forever, but it only manifests after 7.0.

[1]:
[https://github.com/LineageOS/android_kernel_samsung_smdk4412...](https://github.com/LineageOS/android_kernel_samsung_smdk4412/)

~~~
pas
Oh. I see, so the binary blobs that are not exactly user space, but not
exactly non-userspace either.

That's why XDA is full of ROMs that "just need to get GPS working and camera
sometimes crashes" :(

How come Google doesn't try to source better hardware for their phones? Also,
is this the cause of why Apple in-housed a lot of things?

Also, how come there isn't an isolation layer for these blobs, something like
docker for the phone? (So they get their runtime dependencies, and communicate
with them via a socket-shim?)

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moonka
I was part of the N beta with my pixel. Overall it was pretty smooth, but 2
minor annoyances. When it came time for the final, it didn't come for those of
us in the beta until a couple weeks later (though you could manually flash it
which I did). The other was that on reboot there was a popup that you would
have to hit OK on to continue.

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packeted
Just installed it on my Pixel XL already on a beta version of N. Sadly the
update failed meaning I had to factory wipe. Given I'm overseas right now, not
ideal as I can't receive my 2FA SMS to log back in to everything! I guess I
should be less trigger happy on beta software!

Otherwise seems like a nice incremental step. Android pay not currently
supported which is another downer to running this beta.

~~~
Tepix
Being overseas should not stop you from receiving SMS.

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xbmcuser
I have a feeling Google customer support problems will only be fixed when they
solve AI in the next few years.

~~~
norswap
Now where have I heard that before?

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sdotsen
Like many previous posters, my N5's battery is starting to die. I've changed
it once and it hasn't helped. Otherwise, it's a decent phone and it has served
me very well. I've thought about possibly going to the new OnePlus when it's
released, BUT the lack of "long-term" support (more than 2yrs) bothers me.

I bought an iPhone 7 just to give it a whirl, but I eventually gave it to the
wife. There's something about that back button that I can't let go.

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recursion
Got O installed about an hour ago. Some nice changes. Nothing that I'd class
as amazing (for users) but a lot of steady incremental changes none the less.

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int_19h
For those who have installed it, does it (re)-add Night Mode that we've seen
in N previews on Nexus devices?

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hellosputnik
Yes, there is a Night Light setting:
[http://imgur.com/c7dCAR0](http://imgur.com/c7dCAR0)

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int_19h
Is that on Pixel, or on Nexus?

(there are some claims that there's a difference for that particular option)

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sikosmurf
Not seeing that option on my 6p.

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spyspy
Have they settled on a dessert name yet?

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bitsoda
Not yet, but they did provide packs of Oreos for attendees. Apparently they
gave these out last year, so it's not a lock.

~~~
dajohnson89
Oreos are probably a trademark, so I wouldn't bet on that. How about Sundae?

~~~
fredoliveira
To be fair, Kitkat was a trademark too :)

