
Show HN: Scoutzie, 444 best mobile designers for hire. - kirillzubovsky
http://www.scoutzie.com/HN
======
3ds
If you have so many awesome mobile designers, maybe put one to work on your
own site and create a responsive layout that works on a mobile device! This
fixed width layout doesn't help prove your point.

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kirillzubovsky
Maybe you could get lost ;)

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3ds
It's valid constructive criticism. I realize that didn't come out right, but
you should really work on that, it's not even all that complicated to get that
page to display nicely with css mediaqueries

~~~
kirillzubovsky
You are right, this comment makes me sound like an ass. Sometimes HN traffic
excitement overpowers language control. Let me elaborate on the MQ point.

We do want media queries and it isn't too complicated, indeed. Like you
correctly pointed out, we have some amazing designers on Scoutzie and many of
them are familiar with responsive layouts. We could design a layout that looks
great. More so, we could upgrade to the latest version of the Bootstrap and
use their responsiveness to accomplish this goal.

Having said that, we have been been changing something on the site on at least
weekly basis, tweaking the layout, occasionally flipping it on its head. With
that, I track analytics and I know the percentage of users that come from
mobile and I can guesstimate their behavior on the site; it's very similar to
the desktop users, not better, but not worse. So, maintaining a responsive
layout right now just doesn't make as much sense for us, if you consider the
time tradeoff.

Furthermore, a responsive layout shouldn't just be smacked on top of the
regular design. If we were to create a truly great experience on mobile, we
should design it with mobile needs in mind. Just having object be smaller and
wrap around is a good start, but I believe there is more to responsive design
than that.

For right now, we'd rather focus on making a better overall (desktop, for now)
experience, and once we got it down, we'll go ahead and revamp the
responsiveness.

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gmurphy
I'd really love it if someone could make it as as easy to buy design help as
it is to buy stock photography.

There is an astronomical difference between the effort required to buy tens of
thousands of dollars worth of imagery, and the effort required to buy tens of
thousands of dollars worth of someone's time. The former is a matter of a cart
and credit card, the latter requires lengthy emails, contracts, legal
approvals, timesheets, and all other sorts of mumbo jumbo and for most
projects, is enough work that I often just don't bother.

Though those roadblocks are there to protect both parties, I suspect that
there's an artificially large delta between cost and risk.

~~~
hcarvalhoalves
_to buy design (...)_

You don't _buy design_ because it's not an asset. It's part of the process.

~~~
MaxGabriel
He didn't say "buy design" he said "buy design help." He's looking for a
contractor, and just doesn't like dealing with the legal/accounting/recruiting
issues.

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pearkes
Please make the signup form[1] transmit passwords, emails and names over SSL.

It appears you're using Heroku, check out the docs for how to do this here:
<https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/ssl>

[1] <http://www.scoutzie.com/signup>

~~~
kirillzubovsky
Ha. got down voted for that response. I think it came out wrong. I mean to say
that "we do {host on heroku} and we will {implement the ssl)". How bad is it,
was meant as a "what are the implications?" question.

I am going to work on answering questions properly next time. Thanks!

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MortenK
Really bad attitude from both the founder, and the Scoutzie employee
badmouthing 99 designs. If there's something to learn from this thread, it's
how not to reply to criticism.

~~~
benrequena
I was just going to post something similar. It's jaw-dropping to see the kinds
of retorts that kirillzubovsky is giving. Even if the original comments are
snarky in their own right, to quip back with "Maybe you could get lost", and
"A little jealous, perhaps?", is absolutely brand killing not to mention
disrespectful. If I were a mobile developer I would not want to be associated
with this startup in any capacity.

~~~
kirillzubovsky
Ben, you're spot on. I shouldn't be responding like that.

As I explained to Nicole (<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4262188>), I
saw the original comment as an offense on the quality of Scoutzie-listed
designers and I take any such offense very personally. We spend a lot of time
talking to the designers, getting to know them, looking to understand how they
work and what they want to get out of their design careers. When I see a
negative comment about the site or about our user base , I see it as a
negative comment about each one of our users. It hurts me because I see these
users as real people, not just user ids.

Now, I can see that 'mnicole' wasn't out to get us, and it was wrong of me to
engage in a hostile manner myself.

Unfortunately, as one comments irritates your skin, it's really easy to
quickly overreact with others. I will get better at this.

Lastly, thank you for giving the feedback.

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EternalFury
BTW, I think a site like this begs for another site offering the services of
those who take Photoshop comps and turn them into actual iOS or Android UIs.
Because, while Photoshop comps can be totally awesome, there is a humongous
gap between them and an actual UI.

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dave1619
You should really add some screens or a video demo of what you're supposed to
do. I signed up but seems like I'm required to post a project. But what
happens when I post a project? Do designers bid? How long? Or do they contact
me? How? What's the process?

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kirillzubovsky
Dave, this is on our top priority to add. Thank you!

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newobj
If your business is based around mobile design, for gods sake give your site a
mobile design!

~~~
kirillzubovsky
Would you be so kind as to explain why it is important for us at this stage?

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lilbear
It's not that hard to do. I just started coding two years ago and can make a
responsive code layout with my eyes closed. If you are trying to sling mobile
design, your website should be mobile as well. Kinda lose credit when you
don't.

~~~
kirillzubovsky
Coding with your eyes closed is impressive. Non-the-less, you're not
explaining why it is important for a mobile-focused site to have a responsive
layout. Please explain, if you'd like me to take you seriously.

~~~
lilbear
I am looking at your site on an i phone and have to zoom around to navigate.
It would be a lot easier to explore your website if it was mobile formatted.
Using a framework like Skeleton, it takes pretty much the same time to code
for responsive layout as it does for desktop. Example:
<http://www.mchavezi.com/behance/> Appriciate the debate;)

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kyro
Really nice. My only suggestion would be to show more designs above the fold –
perhaps make the current image rotate with a few others.

Do you say 444 because that's all you have signed up currently, or are you
restricting it to that number? I think it'd be interesting to see what would
happen if you did the latter, almost as if you were curating top talent,
something like an agency. Imagine if 37signals kept the number of designers in
each price bracket it represented on Sortfolio to only 20 or so. A part of me
thinks those design firms would have gotten _a lot_ more business than they
would have otherwise.

~~~
jenntoda
It's a designer curate designer approach. The number is not limited, but each
new designer can only join by getting invited another designer already listed
on Scoutzie.

Instead of limiting the total number for the top 20, the bar is at "awesome":
more than 444 designers can be awesome, each in their own right.

~~~
kyro
Ah, so like Dribbble.

No doubt there are more than 20 awesome designers out there, but from a
client's point of view, I would think the zero-sum nature of a top X list
would do a bit more to ensure that the designers are worth their weight. Think
of it like Billboard's Top 10/20/100. I'm not saying this model would be
better, just that it would be interesting to see how this sort of presentation
would influence a potential client's perception of quality.

~~~
jenntoda
Yes, like Dribbble, we trust our designers to spot designers' talent.

But unlike Dribbble, we're not looking to build a popularity contest.

Actually, let me ask here: how much does popularity of a designer matter to
you in choosing a designer to join your team?

~~~
mnicole
I've been pretty vocal about my problem with the popularity contest, but
there's no denying Dribbble's ability to have followers and the number of
those followers _greatly_ enhances the promotion of your product if you let
your designer post shots of the process. While the cliques can't be avoided
and everyone on Scoutzie is likely to crosspost on Dribbble anyway, I think
there's a lot to be said about highlighting designers that are working on
projects they got through your site.

It also looks as though all it takes is downloading the Teehan+Lax template
and making a few fake iOS layouts to join as opposed to real mobile/responsive
experience. I'd find a lot more usefulness as both a designer and a scout if
there was more to it than that since mobile UX is imperative to the success of
the product and UI has a lot to do with that (static images - especially taken
at those dreaded angled/screenshotted Dribbble perspectives - of an
interactive experience don't sell me).. otherwise I'll just search Dribbble
for "mobile" to find someone's profile and get a better gist of their overall
skillset, be it more code- or design-based.

~~~
jenntoda
I'd greatly appreciate it if you can call out specific examples of designs on
Scoutzie that you believe are Teehan+Lax templates and fake iOS layouts.

I agree UX is imperative to the success of a product. But so too is the code,
its marketing efforts, and more. Can you elaborate a bit more on what you're
getting at?

~~~
mnicole
> static images - especially taken at those dreaded angled/screenshotted
> Dribbble perspectives - of an interactive experience don't sell me.

After Kirill's remark I'm not sure why I'm replying, but my overall point is
that the lack of minimum shots-per-project give little to no context of the
app or the cohesiveness of the UI, which is why it's hard to tell if they're
real or just concepts. I also think it would benefit the designers and scouts
alike to have their uploads sorted by project so you aren't just clicking into
a random assortment of thumbnails and you/your perspective clients can link
others to specific ones instead of saying "Click on the one with the big pink
star."

~~~
kirillzubovsky
Nicole. Thanks for replying. Indeed, I apologize for my comment. I do care a
huge deal about the designers on Scoutzie and your comment came across (to me)
as if you were accusing the designers of lacking talent. Although some may be
better at details, some are better at UI ...etc, I do believe the folks on
Scoutzie are overall great and deserve to be recognized for their work.

There is a huge gap between average and great, and whenever someone suggests
that Scoutzie folks are just average, I won't hesitate to remind them
otherwise.

Given your further feedback, I don't think you were aiming at the designers,
so my apologies for incorrectly assessing your comment and snapping back.
Sorry.

~~~
mnicole
I don't even think there's anything wrong with using templates as a means to
display your work in the given context, but there's just no way of knowing on
the current interface if the app actually shipped or is just eyecandy, and
that's why I assumed the latter on a lot of the entries.

Additionally, there's a drop-down to say you have experience with responsive,
but there's no follow-up to that. Does that mean you have experience building
the hi-fidelity mockups or are you actually building the media queries? Those
are the questions I would have as a scout or how I'd want to distinguish
myself as a designer, since a lot of employers either expect both skillsets or
make them two entirely separate roles.

Sorry if I came off as harsh in the initial response, I understand the need
for a service like this, but couldn't really tell how it couldn't be
superseded by the current go-to for finding designers until there was a little
more focus/drilling-down of projects/skillsets that the "competitor" doesn't
give you the room to include.

~~~
kirillzubovsky
Got it. Thank you for clarifying. We'll work these features into the app.

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benblodgett
I like this idea of collective, less-organized entities. I worked at a design
agency for 3 years and found that every designer who came immediately started
designing outside of their process. I think a system like this allows each
individual designer the ability to implement their own process and creativity
without management influence.

I would urge you to take this to the next step and unify accounting. This
would allow customers to feel as if they were hiring a traditional firm, and
would relish in the idea of being able to select out of 444 designers and then
work directly with them.

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alexpenny
Nice work! Now only if there were an equivalent for developers.

~~~
kirillzubovsky
We'll consider it ;) I think Github and Stack come close, but there you still
need to know what you're looking for. InterviewStreet does a good job at pre-
filtering candidates. Non-the-less, we'll keep that in mind!

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EternalFury
So, $100 to get a chance to contract with a quality designer? Umm...

~~~
benrequena
That was my first thought. I actually have a need to partner with a mobile
developer on a project, but paying $100 for the chance to find someone who's
personality, communication, experience, and rate are compatible is, well,
Ummm...

~~~
kirillzubovsky
Actually, you guys can contact them directly. You could, however, post a
project on the private shared board, in case you want to expose it to more
than just the person you are going to contact. This way, you get the benefit
of talking to the person you want, as well as (maybe) hearing from others who
might like to talk to you.

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yumraj
Curious, what's your revenue model? Your terms mention _Our basic service is
free, and we offer paid upgrades for advanced features._

So, do the designers need to pay a fee to be listed, when they receive a
message from a client etc.?

~~~
kirillzubovsky
There is no fee for designers to list their work. We plan to keep it as
designer-friendly as possible.

------
superkinz
It's a pretty looking website, you hired a good designer to help you skin it
Kirill. Nice.

What's the main difference between you and dribbble? They let you people
message designers about projects too, no?

Good luck!

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rmason
They need to let you search by geographic area and also for verified customers
to give validation to individual designers. Too few had samples of their work.

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cemregr
Would be great to see actual screenshots as opposed to blurred photos of hands
holding iPhones showing screenshots.

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mingfu
Scoutzie is a mobile design website made with the design community in mind.
IMO thats what makes them stand out.

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mciarrocchi
Great idea! I love this type of projects, and mobile is a great niche to work
on nowadays. Some feedback: it's a bit annoying that the "Show more ???" ajax
buttons send you everytime to the top of the page.

~~~
kirillzubovsky
We fixed that. Thanks for letting us know!

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yakshaving
Nice work Kirill - As a designer, you've really done a great job creating a
site that I think people would want to actually use on a regular basis.

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BadassFractal
Still not fully sure how the model works. You announce that your project needs
a designer on this site and you get to pick a designer?

~~~
jimg
Yeah, the site is real pretty - but I have no idea what the site is offering.
I understand dribble / 99designs / crowdspring .. but how exactly am I
partnering with 444 designers? How does the interview process work? How long
does the matching process typically take? How much is this gonna cost me
(cheap, like 99 designs, or market rates?) Does this support the no-spec
initiative?

~~~
jenntoda
We just happen to have 444 designers right now. We're a designers curated
community where our designers invite other designers to join us based on their
merits.

Right now, we allow you to post a simple project request. It's like a job
board. Except, since our site is curated and only our designers get to see it
- your respondents will be from vetted designers, not just any random Joe who
says he can draw. We made sure you get qualified leads - we leave you to move
forward with the designer as the two of you agree to.

We do not believe in asking anyone to work for free.

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jamesoey
Nice job Scoutzie! It's a great way to connect high quality designers with
companies and developers who need them.

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vinhboy
Every time I click "show more designers", it brings me back to the top. I
think you forgot a "return false;"

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kirillzubovsky
Yep. See above, the trick with javascript:void worked. Thanks for the bud
reporting!

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bherms
Looks cool. On the show more designers button, change the href from "#" to
"javascript:void(0);"

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pavingways
JS pseudo-protocol is bad practice

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bherms
This is pretty much only due to IE6 problems with using it. Given that mostly
everyone is finally dropping IE6, I don't see how it's a problem anymore.

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dcope
Looks neat, but clicking the "shuffle" button completely kills the back
button.

~~~
kirillzubovsky
Noted. Will look into that. Tnx!

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matan_a
i'm curious because right after i registered, i received an email with the
subject "Scouts: Please confirm subscription" which goes to a listserv and has
a reply to: will -at- vinova.sg.

What gives?

~~~
benrequena
Yes. That seemed pretty deceptive to me too. Nowhere did I agree or appear to
agree to signup for a listserv or newsletter. I probably would have, but the
surprise email in my inbox makes me not trust this group now.

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majorapps
It would be great to know how much each designer charged.

~~~
PufferBuffer
I second that!

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frantzdy_romain
Liking it :) Good work

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vj44
Great job scoutzie!

