

Kickstarter sucks at pre-orders (or: Why we pivoted) - Bradosaur
http://swish.com/blog/2013/03/06/kickstarter-sucks-at-pre-orders-or-why-we-pivoted/

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forrestthewoods
I _strongly_ do not approve of having a website that lists "pre-orders" and
then links Kickstarter projects. As has already been mentioned repeatedly in
this thread Kickstarter is not pre-orders even if users, and sometimes
projects, treat it as such.

Treating it as such is not only incorrect but actively hurts the Kickstarter
concept and brand. You are literally causing direct harm to the service which
your website is largely dependent on. That's very uncool. :(

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samworm
Did you read the "what is Kickstarter?" page before making this? Because
Kickstarter isn't about pre-orders, its about backing projects. The
"Kickstarter Is Not a Store" post on their blog is pretty clear about it all.

I'm not saying that an alternative browser for Kickstarter projects doesn't
have merit. Or that a meta-directory sat on top of Kickstarter (and others)
isn't a useful service. I'm just saying that your framing of it (pre-orders)
is actually opposed to the ethos of the underlying service.

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Bradosaur
Kickstarter never intended to be a place for pre-orders. But it's hard to deny
that a lot of campaigns treat the plaform that way. We think it's amazing and
wonderful, but Kickstarter doesn't really want it on their platform (though
they're not fighting very hard, see eg the Almond+... a story for a different
day).

Both consumers and sellers want these transactions to happen, and we want to
(eventually) be the best place to list. But for now, we're starting by being
the best place to shop.

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noonespecial
_Kickstarter sucks at pre-orders_...

...because Kickstarter is not _for_ preorders. Also, my car is an awful boat.

<http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kickstarter-is-not-a-store>

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Bradosaur
I thought that blog post didn't live up to the title. It mainly said two
things: 1) no renderings and 2) no offering multiple quantities, and they're
not even enforcing the second part (Lace Anchors, eg).

The post itself says, "The new guidelines only apply to [projects] that are
developing new products ... that backers are expecting in their mailboxes."
They're not disallowing such campaigns at all. But we are offering an easier
alternative.

[Edit: clarity]

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NoPiece
Are you sure you are solving an actual problem? I've backed a dozen projects,
and never gone to to the kickstarter.com home page looking for a project.

I'm not sure many people spend time browsing for things to back. People just
hear about interesting projects via HN, twitter, reddit, facebook, etc., and
then transact via Kickstarter.

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lanthe
Creators tell us that around 30% of their traffic comes organically from
Kickstarter. There are _some_ people browsing on Kickstarter -- but it's not
really set up to help them browse. We just want to make it easier :)

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dkoston
So, in essence, the problem is that KickStarter is noisy at scale and you're
essentially selling a filter. Maybe the title of the post should have been
"KickStarter Sucks, Long Live KickStarter"

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jonursenbach
I don't want to be _that_ guy, but clicking on your logo on your blog takes me
back to... your blog. Super annoying.

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Bradosaur
I am so embarrassed. I had fixed it on the other WP theme, but then switched
themes to F2. Thanks, it's fixed now!

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snikch
My initial thought was 'is this solving a real problem', but then I checked it
out and have ended up backing a project. Definitely a cool service to help
promote product based Kickstarters.

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eaurouge
Are you still planning on taking 35% of markup? I commented in a previous post
on HN that I thought that was too high for the value you're adding. I don't
see this discussed on your website. There is mention of a "wholesale price".
What factors determine the wholesale and retail price? Also how do you handle
returns/refunds/exchanges?

I still think this has the potential to become a great service, but I'm not
convinced you understand (yet) the pain/problem that you've built a solution
for.

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lanthe
Don't tell anyone but we're going to switch to free listings soon. Sellers
still have to use our fulfillment, though -- it's the only way we can
guarantee delivery.

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MBCook
> So, following the apocryphal advice, we imagined the future, and built it. A
> refreshing pre-order store for sellers and shoppers alike.

Isn't Kickstarter always trying to get people to _stop_ referring to them as
preorders? You are supposed to back a project, and you are supposed to get a
reward if its successful; but they are NOT preorders.

That's where people keep getting in trouble. They "preorder" something off
Kickstarter and then complain when the project fails.

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spo81rty
Swish looks cool and useful for finding fun new toys. Good work!

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pbreit
If you're trying to help people find cool stuff on Kickstarter and
elsewhere...fine (good luck with that). But "Kickstarter sucks"? Really?
Really lame.

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brackin
I came to a similar conclusion with something that I'm building so I realised
to focus on the people with inbuilt audiences on social media & their web
presence (creators, charities, product makers, etc). Rather than building
another marketplace.

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rwallace
You say 'pre-order with guaranteed delivery,' but doesn't that mean in cases
where the creator underestimated project difficulty and the product is never
finished, backers will be asking you for their money back? How are you going
to deal with that?

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Bradosaur
When you list on Swish, you don't get the money until you deliver the product.
Much like dealing with Target or Wal-Mart. If it never shows up, shoppers
automatically get refunds after 1 year. This also really changes the
incentives for creators... only list if you're sure it'll succeed.

Some creators need the money up front, but most don't. (Creating the prototype
was comparably expensive, and they found a way.) Once you have the Purchase
Order, it's a lot easier to get VC funding, a bank loan, or use
friends/family/savings. If your project is very successful, you can deliver in
batches and we will release your money accordingly.

One of the weird things about Kickstarter is that every product needs to
explain why they need the money, even the ones that don't.

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apl002
swish sucks at crowdfunding

