
Starbucks Prospers by Keeping Pace with the Coffee Snobs - zbravo
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/business/starbucks-prospers-by-keeping-pace-with-the-coffee-snobs.html
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leejoramo
I don't buy the comparison of Starbuck's to McDonalds. Starbucks sets much
higher standard in coffee than McDonalds does in burgers. And prior to
Starbucks nationwide roll out, McDonald's weak coffee in a styrofoam cup set
the standard. Yuck

I remember the time before Starbucks. American coffee was some watered down
beans with 5% non-coffee filler that had been sitting in an open air carafe on
an electric heating plate for the past 3 hours. Yuck

I love my local coffee houses, but 30 years ago there were almost none. You
had to live downtown in a major city or in a university town to easily find
good coffee. Yes, I am sad when I visit Seattle or the Bay Area and see how
many local places have gone away, but out here in rural Colorado I think
Starbucks helped grow demand for good coffee and local shops.

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cjrp
I think a comparison could be made in the "dumbing-down" of the cooking
(McDonalds)/brewing (Starbucks) process. I was surprised last week to see that
the barista-side of a Starbucks machine consisted of a few buttons and that's
it. The machine grinded, tamped, and pulled the espresso. Much in the same way
a cook at McDonalds puts raw food into a machine, presses a button and the
computer takes care of the rest.

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waylandsmithers
Interesting theory to explain why Starbucks' stock price is up, but I'm not
sure I believe it. Friends in Seattle tell me that to "coffee snobs" Starbucks
coffee is basically on par with McDonald' burgers, and that some locations
serve coffee without any Starbucks related branding or nomenclature to avoid
driving away the people who feel that way.

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warfangle
They may be increasing the quality of the bean they source.

But their beans are stale by the time they get to the store (once you roast
the bean, the clock starts).

And they notoriously over-roast their beans, giving it that distinctive burnt
taste.

I'll continue going to my shop that roasts their beans daily... and doesn't
think that a flat white can come in three sizes.

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amyjess
> And they notoriously over-roast their beans, giving it that distinctive
> burnt taste.

They've offered multiple kinds of roasts for years now. If you don't like
their dark roast, you have lighter ones to choose from.

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hueving
The OP you're replying to doesn't even go to Starbucks because they offer size
choices. Your facts won't change his/her mind.

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warfangle
I go there when there's no other options, and probably twice a year to see if
they've gotten better.

If I'm spending $4+ on an espresso drink, I'd rather it not taste bad :)

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manaskarekar
Been happily roasting my own beans for almost two years. I urge anyone
interested to give it a shot, there's no going back.

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cheshireoctopus
Any tips/hints for getting started?

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jmhobbs
I started as simple as a pan on the stove and a spoon. It's better if you can
do it outside or somewhere well ventilated, burning chaff isn't the most
pleasant smell.

If you can make friends with a local small batch roaster you can pick up a lot
of info quickly. The ones I've met love to talk shop about roasting. And they
can sell you some of their stock directly, so you can try more things without
waiting for it to get shipped to you.

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amyjess
> Starbucks prides itself on its care for “partners,” the noun it prefers to
> employees. It pays higher wages, offers health insurance even to part-time
> workers and pays college tuition for thousands of eligible employees.
> Starbucks employee turnover is relatively low, yielding benefits in
> efficiency and morale.

On a related note, Starbucks also has very LGBT-friendly policies at every
level; they're well ahead of the curve in terms of non-discrimination policies
and trans-inclusive health benefits. It's widely known within the LGBT
community, and _especially_ the trans community, that if you're LGBT and
looking for a retail job, Starbucks is the number one place to look.

They do an amazing job at treating their employees well.

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Kluny
With the added bonus that you sometimes get the most delightfully colorful
people serving your coffee. Really improves the experience for me.

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untothebreach
FYI, Autoplaying video

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n0us
Why do companies do this? I would love to see a breakdown of the bandwidth
costs they pay for something that enrages most visitors and is tolerated by
most of the remaining. I have never visited a website and said "man, I wish
that video had just played itself"

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sageabilly
Boutique coffee is all about nuance- it's like Scotch, or bourbon, or tobacco.
You get _this_ particular sack of beans from this tiny coffee producer in the
middle of nowhere and you've roasted 5lbs of it just _so_ and you then grind
it just _so_ and you then prepare it just _so_ with an exacting process and
carefully controlling your variables of time of extraction and water temp.

Starbucks cannot and does possess the ability to harness that subtlety because
they operate on a huge scale. They roast their beans to burnt in order to
drive _out_ the differences between beans sourced at different plantations
because they have to offer a homogenized product across all of their stores
and all of their retail offerings. Every cup of coffee at every Starbucks
across the entire world has to taste exactly the same because that's what
customers expect[0].

If I want nuance I go to a local coffee roaster and ask the owner what's good
that day. If I just want a caffeine fix I can go to Starbucks or, better yet,
just drink the crappy stuff at work that's free and load up on the sugar and
cream.

I don't go to a college rager and expect to find Springbank (fancy single-
source Scotch); I go and expect to find Natty Light and Yuengling and, in
fact, I _expect_ those offerings because I'm not going to stand around and
compare tasting notes, I'm going to get drunk and have a good time. Similarly,
I go to Starbucks as a mid-morning break at work so I can have an excuse to
get up and walk around and get something caffeinated I can sip at my desk
while doing other things; I'm not expecting the _coffee experience_ nor do I
want it, I just want to get my buzz on and go about my day.

Additionally I think this move by Starbucks is putting even more pressure on
small boutique coffee shops and potentially marginalizing them even further
because now casual consumers can just go to Starbucks and get what they think
is a "boutique experience" when, in fact, their money and their time would be
better spent going to the actual boutique coffee shop (Edit- amyjess pointed
out that this is NOT the case!
[http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/hey_wait_a_m...](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/hey_wait_a_minute/2007/12/dont_fear_starbucks.single.html)).
Not to mention a potential ripple effect in coffee pricing where Starbucks
could be able to strong-arm the market and drive small specialty coffee
growers out of business like Wal-Mart and the enormous pickle jar[1].

[0][https://www.reddit.com/r/Coffee/comments/119vnt/question_reg...](https://www.reddit.com/r/Coffee/comments/119vnt/question_regarding_consistency/)
[1][http://www.fastcompany.com/47593/wal-mart-you-dont-
know](http://www.fastcompany.com/47593/wal-mart-you-dont-know)

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SilasX
Or it could just be a kind of placebo effect that doesn't stand up to double
blind testing, and the function of coffee pickiness has more to do with social
signaling than flavor.

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bch
There are subtle strokes that are off the chart of what I'd say "an average
consumer" might find or look for that are _easily_ identifiable with a small
amount of training and effort (I've identified roast or lot changes from my
go-to roaster without any prompting or hints from them). I think Starbucks
(outside of their Starbucks Reserve store in Seattle) really isn't looking to
serve that market -- they're really most middle-of-the-road. In fact,
_Starbucks_ is probably getting by on a lot of signalling in that less subtle
space.

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swagv
This is an investor relations puff piece if I've ever seen one.

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sschueller
Waiting for the day Starbucks carries Kopi Luwak[1]. /sarcasm

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_Luwak](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_Luwak)

