
Stepping down as Nodevember organizer - knes
http://www.kevinold.com/2016/09/05/stepping-down-as-nodevember-organizer.html
======
aub3bhat
It's in scenarios like these that in spite of the slow & tedious peer review
process I am thankful that IEEE / ACM research conferences exist. Those are
the places that truly strive to be inclusive by enforcing peer review and
often double blind processes, where technical merit alone being the deciding
factor. There are no calls to disinvite authors because of the beliefs held by
them. Researchers from China, Russia, Middle east who likely do not subscribe
to the same "progressive" ideas, can still participate purely on basis of the
technical merit of their work. That to me is real inclusivity.

These new "cons" with their long list of rules are not about inclusivity but
rather about imposing cultural hegemony.

~~~
imglorp
Double blind makes plenty of sense for determining merit of papers.

Does it also make sense when selecting a speaker? These are often people
chosen because of their public reputation for something they've accomplished,
often uniquely identified as "inventor of X," and each usually come with their
own off-topic oddities that need to be overlooked if you want to hear their
on-topic thoughts.

What's the right process here?

~~~
PedroBatista
I think the right process here is being a grown up.

"off-topic oddities" is another name of "being a person", how sad is the fact
someone goes to a conference and demands the speaker to be a one-dimensional
deliverer of the topic they subscribed to and most of the cases already agree
100% ( not 99% )

These kind of people always existed, the fact that organizations fold so
easily to them is news to me.

------
oellegaard
When I started as a developer, I didn't care who I talked to if I thought they
could contribute something interesting. I wouldn't care what religion, gender
or country they were from - I was just interested in learning.

I recently stopped going to tech conferences. I don't want to go to
gender/sexuality/religion/you name it-equality conferences and it seems like
thats the main topic in all tech conferences these days.

Can someone bring back the technical discussions and throw out the bullies?

~~~
Balgair
>Can someone bring back the technical discussions and throw out the bullies?

-"The Tale of the Interwebz"

------
NhanH
> A suggestion to boycott the conference was made, because of suspicion that
> diverisity and inclusivity were not top priority.

I don't have a reasonable word to describe this (ie. nothing better than name
calling). So let's just say "I think it's not particularly reasonable for a
tech conference to put anything besides tech to be top priority" is an
understatement for me.

That said, I want to note that any flak being shot should not be aimed at the
organizer at all. The topic of "diversity" is slowly joining the rank of "What
you can't say"[0] topic, and it takes a lot of work, courage and risk for an
organizer to stand against an accusation like that. It's entirely reasonable
for an organizer to drop a speaker under said circumstances, although they did
botch the execution of removing a speaker pretty badly.

What's unfortunate is that such action can be considered "reasonable", and the
question of who to send flak to is left as an exercise for the sub-comment
thread.

[0]: [http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html)

~~~
dagw
Disclaimer: I haven't been following this particular case and thus don't know
the details or have any opinion.

 _So let 's just say "I think it's not particularly reasonable for a tech
conference to put anything besides tech to be top priority" is an
understatement for me._

That being said I do disagree with this statement. Conferences are, at least
for me, never primarily about learning about the latest hard core technical
topics. They're about meeting and talking to people in my field who share my
technical interests, sharing ideas and getting inspiration and talking hard
problems over beers in the evening. They're as much, if not more, about the
social as they are the purely technical. And even when it comes to
presentations I'll take a fun and inspiring talk showing a novel take on
something 'trivial' over someone reading their latest paper out loud while
staring at their feet, no matter what the technical merits of that paper might
be.

~~~
mcguire
Don't worry, there are no known details in this case.

------
erlich
It truly warms my heart to hear this!

I'm so glad people are fighting back against political correctness.

We're all just trying to get work done, and we have to put up with this
constant background noise. Checking in once in a while to see what language is
now deemed inappropriate to avoid chastization by some Twitter white knight
legion.

Its the ultimate bikeshedding.

~~~
wayniac
The irony here is people like this HURT their own cause. Rememeber the Adria
Richards debacle (aka "Donglegate")? That gal set back females in tech years
because who wants to deal with a co-worker that might complain to the boss and
get you fired because they overhear something you say and don't like it?

Same thing here. These folks aren't fighting FOR equality in work or safe
workspaces, they're essentially cutting off their noses to spite their faces
because they're going to turn people against them out of the desire to not
deal with the drama they bring.

~~~
Frondo
Someone who looks at the Adria Richards story and decides "women are the
problem", well, that's the actual problem right there.

~~~
1_2__3
It's considered rude in polite text conversation to attribute using quotes
words that another person didn't say.

------
okket
Previous discussions, in chronological order:

"In defence of Douglas Crockford"
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12422420](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12422420)
(2 days ago, 407 comments)

"Crockford"
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12425061](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12425061)
(1 day ago, 95 comments)

"Inclusivity Is a Joke"
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12425353](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12425353)
(1 day ago, 203 comments)

------
meritt
It's amusing how strongly the Node community strives to be "inclusionary" when
comes to race/gender/orientation/religion/etc but when someone presents
dissenting technical ideas or thinks an implementation is wrong, they might as
well be crucified for voicing such blasphemy.

~~~
ageofwant
I have noticed that the most self identifying "progressive left" people are
some of the most intolerant individuals I've ever had to deal with. They are
extraordinarily dismissive of any "non-aligned" viewpoints, they are miniature
despots. I would hate for any of those to have any real power over other
people's lives.

Being tolerant is being OK with other people being "wrong".

~~~
xiaoma
If you want to truly understand political correctness, try living in a
communist country for a few years. The media is maddening. So is the word-
policing.

------
gregjor
Every article I've read about this repeats the characterization of Crockford
as a "grumpy old man." Self-important not-yet-old people with thin skins
apparently unaware of rampant age discrimination in the tech industry, I
guess. And unaware of multiple meanings of words and lameness of geek humor.

------
hasenj
What is this nonsense? Why do conference organizers need to care about finding
speakers to represent fat people, for example? Is this really a tech
conference?

~~~
nowprovision
We also need to consider left handed people are equally and fairly
represented, for too long the privileged and dominating right handies have
over-run these conferences.

~~~
CM30
Dont't forget a diverse mix of opinions, religious or political beliefs! Like
more conservatives, religious folk or people with controversial viewpoints not
currently represented!

Oh wait. The people wanting this stuff only care about diversity of
appearance, not diversity of thought.

~~~
nowprovision
Yes, some ISIS should definitely be on the speaker list.. It would have to be
a meta talk as their aren't too many javascript experts in this unrepresented
community.

------
DigitalSea
The whole situation is just ridiculous. SJW's have well and truly infiltrated
the Javascript community. The Paul Straw linked post really highlights how
silly this situation is. A few comments taken completely out of context and
because some people took them the wrong way, things spiralled out of control.

I personally am not a fan of Douglas Crockford, but my views of him personally
don't override the fact that he did nothing wrong in this situation. He should
not have been un-invited to the conference. Their loss, Crockford is a smart
guy and a huge drawcard for an event like this. Now we get to listen to a
bunch of twenty-somethings talk to us about a language that Crockford was
pioneering when they were still in school.

------
hoorayimhelping
>Each of these were most likely represented.

That's what this is all about. It's not about being diverse, it's about
ticking off a list of checkboxes to make sure every group that some moral
authority thinks needs to represented is properly represented.

------
dunkelheit
This just confirms the old principle that anything taken to the extreme turns
into its opposite.

If you fight for inclusivity, prepare to exclude people.

If you strive to make everyone comfortable, prepare to face some very
uncomfortable situations.

~~~
czzarr
Aristotle said virtue sits at the middle of two extremes. That was thousands
of years ago.

------
afandian
There's a strong movement for Codes of Conduct at conferences. It's a very
good idea.

How about a CoC for conference organisers? Some minimal level of
professionally? The official statement:

> This conference was started by a group of friends to gather around the love
> of a shared language and community.

> We are in over our heads.

[http://nodevember.org/statement.html](http://nodevember.org/statement.html)

Is zero excuse. Don't organise a conference if you can't organise a
conference.

If Codes of Conduct are meant to protect attendees from incumbent inequalities
and prejudices, what hope do we have if the organisers behave like an old boys
club who keep out people that aren't like them?

~~~
DonHopkins
The need to be more agile about unit testing their codes of conduct
stakeholders.

------
abz10
The problem with using diversity as a selection criteria bias means that
statistically on average the diverse speakers will be worse. While attending
such a conference, if one were to optimize for the quality of speakers a
simple rule to achieve this at such conferences would be to avoid the diverse
speakers and pick a different track.

I avoid 'diverse' speakers, not because I'm racist, sexist, transphobic etc
but because I don't like having my time wasted.

~~~
mcphage
> that statistically on average the diverse speakers will be worse

I mean, since you're being technical, then it actually means that the speakers
will be slightly worse at writing talk proposals. But ability to write a talk
proposal isn't the same as ability to give a talk.

And even if it were, it's meaningless—when doing a conference, maximizing the
individual speaker "quality" isn't helpful either. 10 speakers speaking about
the same topic amazingly is worse for an attendee than 10 speakers speaking
about 10 different things merely very well.

~~~
abz10
I was not proposing alternative metrics for measuring quality but I believe it
should be safe to say that talk proposals are a better indicator of talk
quality than race and gender.

Nor was I recommending maximizing individual speaker quality over maximizing
conference quality. To reuse your two metrics, I would expect 10 different
talk topics given by people of the same race and gender to yield more value to
attendees than the 10 same talk topics given by people of all different race
and genders.

------
hanoz
Competitive political correctness is a difficult and high stakes game at the
best of times, but this lot are so ultra inclusive that they included
JavaScript on the server side. I wouldn't get involved.

~~~
jsmthrowaway
Sheesh, you could have made that joke without the unnecessary jab at political
correctness, you know. Why drag PC into it?

(surprisingly necessary edit: /s)

~~~
gadders
Because it is what caused this issue?

------
wayniac
People just need to start standing up to these SJW people. They are literally
infesting everything: Colleges, workplaces, open source, everything. They act
like bullies whenever someone says something they disagree with, even calling
for open retaliation across social media because they have no understanding of
the real world. What is worse is that more and more people are actually
catering to them out of fear instead of standing up and saying "Look, you're
an adult. Act like one instead of a kindergartener who missed their nap.
People are going to say things you don't like or don't agree with; shut your
mouth and learn to live with it". Instead, we get things like this that juts
reinforce the SJW belief that they are pure and right and that everyone needs
to do what they say.

It's really pathetic.

~~~
CM30
Isn't that what GamerGate was basically about? Well, at least in part anyway.

But the issue with standing up to them (however necessary it might be) is that
such individuals have a tendency to play the victim a lot and get quite a bit
of the media to rally around them every time someone calls them out. It's hard
to call out cases like this when the inevitable media coverage will be
'Javascript conference harassed by internet trolls over Douglas Crockford's
invite'.

~~~
jpfed
No, Gamergate was about ethics in journalism. That's why it started when
Gerstmann was pushed out of GameSpot for his unfavorable review of Kane and
Lynch.

~~~
makomk
Hah. I read some of the very first discussions - before it was even called
Gamergate yet - and in some sense it did start when Gerstmann was pushed out
of GameSpot. The threads were full of of anger and distrust in the gaming
press being stoked by past incidents, including that one. All that changed was
that for some reason social justice activists decided to tie their credibility
to that of the gaming press.

------
eecc
Seriously? I never imagined I'd see this slow-motion move towards the kind of
bigotry and conservatism we're accustomed to blame theocracies of.

Seriously, if "dog balls parens" and a metaphor involving "promiscuity"
(sexual, I presume) is all that's needed to be toast, you're so badly f*cked
it's not funny. at all

~~~
adamors
Crockford said:

> the Old Web was great because it provided promiscuity [0]

and

> promiscuous: indiscriminate; without discrimination [1].

It's just people getting offended for absolutely no reason.

[0]:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w6tZEbrHIY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w6tZEbrHIY)

[1]: from
[http://www.dictionary.com/browse/promiscuous](http://www.dictionary.com/browse/promiscuous)

~~~
tankenmate
Hyper-vigilance is quite often an ongoing response to PTSD. It would not
surprise me if a large number of people who get so offended over the use of
language no matter tenuous or non-existent are in fact reliving previous
issues.

Would it not be better that root cause are addressed; honest to goodness cases
and their psychological fall out are dealt with so that whole conferences
don't need to duck and run for cover every time a car backfires.

~~~
jacquesm
> It would not surprise me if a large number of people who get so offended
> over the use of language no matter tenuous or non-existent are in fact
> reliving previous issues.

I highly doubt that. There seems to be a great deal of deliberation behind
these attacks always involving some self declared champion of 'rights' that is
flexing their muscle in an underhanded game of power.

~~~
throwanem
I think it's a little of both. On the one hand you have people who really do
have troubles and really could use a little kindness, and on the other you
have people who are totally okay with cynically exploiting them and their
troubles in order to acquire power. And if we're honest, people who've been
abused already? _Super_ easy to exploit. You don't even have to break them
yourself! That's already taken care of.

Do I sound bitter? Perhaps I sound bitter. I was going for savage sarcasm, but
maybe I've overshot and landed in bitter. I've seen this dynamic play out to
completion once, with homosexuals like myself in the role of foil. Now I'm
seeing it play out again, this time on the backs of people whose uniting
characteristic is having gone through hell at the hands of others, in many
cases at the hands of people whom they should have been safely able to trust.
Now they get to be used all over again, at the hands of people claiming to
want to help - indeed claiming, implicitly or otherwise, to be the only ones
who _can_ effectively help, a classic abuser's trick in itself. In the face of
such enormities, perhaps I may be forgiven a bitter moment here and there,
shameful though they nonetheless be.

~~~
tankenmate
This would gel with my experience of working with LGBT+ people; some of them
fight the "system" for so long that it takes a very heavy toll in stress;
sometimes stress they don't even realise, or don't consciously realise the
full impact it has.

~~~
throwanem
To be sure I've made myself clear, let me note explicitly that my prior
comment's "on the other hand" refers to people who claim to be acting on our
behalf as they behave in ways inimical to our interests.

------
grabcocque
I still don't understand what it is that Crockford is supposed to have done. I
mean, I've heard him speak: he's insufferable and obnoxious and self-
righteous. But is that enough to earn a no-platforming these days? Cripes.

~~~
cs02rm0
He's not supposed to have done anything tangible, at least as far as anyone
has shown to be the case. Just some vague handwaving in his direction.

There's speculation he's sometimes a bit grumpy and curt, made some jokes
about people not wanting to use weak maps and promiscuity in respect of
internet connected devices which could be at the root of this, but you'd have
to be professionally offended to find issue there.

Ultimately these days it seems there are people who go looking for reasons to
be offended, or be offended on behalf of others. Naturally, they find what
they're looking for. It's a shame this has affected people who just want to
discuss technology without prejudice, even if they are javascript developers.

------
jgrahamc
_The tweets go on to chastize the conference for being held at a “Christian
university”. It is worth noting: I am a Christian. I would challenge that I am
in the minority among most conference attendees._

Be interesting to know if that last line is true.

~~~
tnone
Probably, especially if you limit it to practicing Christians. You know the
diversity brigade doesn't really want people like that to attend.

This is starting to look more and more like someone's personal hangups turned
into vendetta, using the nearest available excuses and target.

~~~
pluma
I'm atheist and think that religion is outright harmful so I'm somewhat aware
of people's expressed or apparent religious beliefs.

In my experience vocal Christians (as in: people mentioning Jesus, prayer or
other church-related activities in person or on Twitter) are the minority, at
least when it comes to JS conference speakers. So much so that they stick out
as much as e.g. a Muslim wearing a hijab.

That said, even as a "militant" atheist I wouldn't mind having a Christian
university as the conference venue or having Christian speakers -- as long as
they don't try to use the talk/event as a means to force their ideologies on
others. If anything, I'd find it interesting, because it's a place and a kind
of person I would not actively seek out otherwise (i.e. outside the
technical/conference context).

A few people I follow on Twitter or outspoken Christians or even Mormons. Yes,
I find their religious gobbledegook annoying (but I'm sure they'd find my
atheist rants equally unpleasant) but if they have enough interesting things
to say otherwise, I'm willing to put up with that no matter how much it
offends my sensibilities.

I'd hope this is the norm, but apparently "diversity" these days often means
"no disagreeable persons" and being a white Christian heterosexual cis-man is
borderline offensive in itself.

------
etangent
At this point, it would be desirable if people started actively boycotting
Nodevember. I understand that quite many individuals in the Node community may
be in favor of the decision to exclude Crockford, but I also suspect that
there is a significant amount of people (if judging only by the responses in
this thread) who very much dislike that decision. A concerted effort to
boycott the conference, even if done by a minority, would set a precedent and
send a very clear message that such arbitrarily rude behavior on the part of
the organizers will not be tolerated in future events like this.

A boycott would also pressure the organizers to either "put up or shut up"
regarding the evidence surrounding Crockford's dismissal. There is a very good
chance [1] that this is a personal vendetta happening rather than any ethical
misdeed done on Crockford's part. If so, a move to boycott the conference
would benefit not only the liberal side, but also the "politically correct"
(for lack of better words) side, as nobody is interested that their political
movement be hijacked by people seeking personal/egotistic goals [2]. If, on
the other hand, Crockford was indeed dismissed due to political motives, there
is still a decent chance that the evidence against him is extremely weak
(hence reluctance to present it). Such a situation would also benefit both
sides, in the sense that it would teach them a valuable lesson that
persecuting people is not something that should be undertaken lightly.

There are other JavaScript conferences happening this year [3]. Go to those
instead. Encourage your friends to do the same.

\---

[1] See Tim Hunt's case for an example of a similar situation where the
evidence against an individual later turned out to be mostly made up of thin
air. [https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-timothy-
hunt...](https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-timothy-hunt-witch-
hunt/) [2] Per conversation with the organizer, he had admitted to having "a
long and storied history" with D. Crockford, which further corroborates the
possibility of personal vendetta.
[https://twitter.com/getify/status/772413034773909504](https://twitter.com/getify/status/772413034773909504)
[3] [https://github.com/prigara/javascript-
conferences](https://github.com/prigara/javascript-conferences)

~~~
ageofwant
Absolutely. I will not willingly associate myself with the Nodevember cabal,
and neither should any other reasonable and tolerant progressive.

~~~
makomk
Exactly. We must fight back against this dangerous, oppressive trend of
conferences giving into threats of boycotts by threatening to boycott any
conference that doesn't do as we demand.

~~~
rhapsodic
> We must fight back against this dangerous, oppressive trend of conferences
> giving into threats of boycotts by threatening to boycott any conference
> that doesn't do as we demand.

Yep, because that's the only way to fight it that will be effective.
Conferences will only stop caving in to these vicious, hateful cry-bullies
when caving becomes more costly than not caving.

All of the tactics these SJWs employ should be employed against them, on a
massive scale. One of the instigators in this case, @nexxylove, is, get this,
a "developer evangelist" for Salesforce.com. And they hold developer
conferences. I hope a lot of people who find her behavior offensive let them
know that the won't "feel safe" at any Salesforce developer's conference where
she is in attendance. Another one, @nodebotanist, is, according to her
Linkedin page, a developer evangelist with Auth0.

Let's all make our feels known to these companies! Let the boycotts commence!

~~~
habitue
This seems dangerously close to inciting a brigade against these two people. I
don't agree with their complaints or nodevember's response to them, but we
need to be super careful not to aim the crazies at these people personally.

~~~
rhapsodic
It would be doing to them what they did to Crockford. Nothing more, nothing
less.

Turnabout is fair play. It would make them, and hopefully others, think twice
before trying to publicly smear someone in the future.

~~~
habitue
Uh,no man. When the rabid anti-SJW's go after someone they hound them, send
them rape and death threats, hack them etc. It's insane. Douglas Crockford
didn't deserve to be disinvited, but the accusers also don't deserve that kind
of mob justice.

~~~
rhapsodic
>Uh,no man. When the rabid anti-SJW's go after someone they hound them, send
them rape and death threats, hack them etc. It's insane. Douglas Crockford
didn't deserve to be disinvited, but the accusers also don't deserve that kind
of mob justice.

So far I've seen no reports of that happening. What I would like to see is for
conferences who hire these bullies as speakers to be flooded with boycott
threats, along with their corporate sponsors. Until there is some personal
risk involved to their own careers, these demented, vicious, hateful bullies
will never stop harassing and hurting the careers of other people who hold
views they disagree with or use language they don't approve of.

------
3princip
If I understand correctly, the conference "de-platformed" Douglas Crockford
because at some point in the past he made a joke about the internet being
promiscuous?

How utterly absurd. One should question the competence of these people to
organize a technical conference. Irrational, childish behavior.

~~~
sillysaurus3
I think the conference was facing a number of people who refused to
participate as speakers due to Crockford's attendance. The conference
organizers presumably felt pressured to do something to prevent speakers from
leaving en masse. That's slightly different than what you were saying, but it
seems like an important distinction.

~~~
danielrhodes
The proper response to this is to show the speakers who were protesting to the
door. It is the same scenario as when an employee tries to blackmail an
employer into getting a raise or a promotion.

~~~
michael_fine
But if a significant group of employees do it, that's called... a strike,
which is absolutely a reasonable thing for an employer to acquiesce to.

------
chippy
It seems like most comments here (and in previous times this has been
discussed) are avoiding the actual reason why Crockford was disinvited - it is
because a number of speakers said they would be uncomfortable with him
speaking and would not speak and attend the conference. The comments appear to
be looking for facts, reasons, examples of past behaviour of Crockford to see
if these facts can justify the decision. HN'ers are looking to understand the
reasons why someone has an emotional response.

That is the reason - from
[http://nodevember.org/statement.html](http://nodevember.org/statement.html) :
"that his presence would make some speakers uncomfortable to the point where
they refused to attend or speak.". Instead of addressing this point, we
generally are looking for concrete, binary, true and false examples. So it's
harder for me to see how his past behaviour makes me uncomfortable. But I also
can understand how it can possibly make other people uncomfortable.

How should any conference deal with speakers being uncomfortable with things?

How can comfort be increased for all? How can a small conference defend
against accusations of uncomfortableness? What would the best way to do this
be?

Personally, I don't think "well I'm comfortable, so it's okay" would be an
acceptable response.

So, working towards an answer to my own questions, instead of looking for
logical reasons, and responding coldly, we should look towards emotion, and
respond in kind: "Please be welcome here, we will have separate speaker
lounges, multiple places to interact and speak with each other. Many people
from a wide range of backgrounds will be attending. It will be our priority to
ensure you, and everyone can feel safe and welcome and have an enjoyable time
at the conference. We are a group of local friends putting on a great
conference about a topic we all like, we arn't a soulless corporate
conference. We are approachable and thanks for trusting us and feeling like
you can approach us with your concerns."

Respond with reassurance, comfort, trustworthiness, essentially more PR and
less rationality (and I would suggest that if they did that, the speaker
wouldn't need to have been removed)

~~~
josephcooney
You say "some speakers" and "a number of speakers". I read the article by Mx
Kas Perch. Is there anyone else?

I guess regarding the search for facts/reasons/examples - I guess we're
interested in trying to form a view as to whether that is an understandable
position on the part of these 'other speakers'. No doubt there is a spectrum
here. If it is just "person X doesn't like person Y because they hurt X's
feelings once" that is quite a different thing to "persons X, Y and Z have
been physically threatened by person A and fear for their lives".

~~~
chippy
> You say "some speakers" and "a number of speakers". I read the article by Mx
> Kas Perch. Is there anyone else?

"Some speakers" was from
[http://nodevember.org/statement.html](http://nodevember.org/statement.html)
and I used "a number of speakers" as being equivalent to that unknown but
small number. I wouldn't say "many speakers" though (British English).

I am also curious about the actual number - and also the number of supporters
or allies not directly involved. It is quite different actual threats,
experiences and imagined thoughts and emotions. And then (passive or active,
online and offline) supporters to anothers emotions or experiences. I would
argue that all these types of response can be addressed in a positive way.

Emotions can be addressed in kind - and perhaps reducing the number of
concerns is similar to increasing the level of comfort. For example, I might
say "well my friend is concerned that the venue is far away from public
transport stops and it's at night" but a good response from the organizers may
say "don't worry, we have security on the venue, it's well lighted, there will
be good taxi service, we're working with the venue and local police etc". This
may well reduce my hypothetical concern, and increase my comfort. I couldn't
speak for my friend though - but I'd imagine my, as an ally, reassurance would
help.

~~~
mcguire
Blacklists and Other Economic Sanctions:

[http://www.english.illinois.edu/maps/mccarthy/schrecker5.htm](http://www.english.illinois.edu/maps/mccarthy/schrecker5.htm)

Listen, the behavior at some past conferences and in the industry in general
are unprofessional, unacceptable, and egregious. It's at the point that I want
to disregard anyone who uses the term "social justice warrior" as an imbecile.
Everyone should be as comfortable as possible in this community. Everyone
should be welcome.

But punishing people based on the words of an unknown person or persons, with
no recourse or defense is not better.

------
Negitivefrags
This whole saga is just painful to watch. It's the Super PC Crowd vs the Ultra
PC crowd competing on who can moralize the hardest.

Can't we just grow up and get some real work done?

~~~
Bouncingsoul1
Splitter!

~~~
tnone
I hate these social judean warriors.

------
rhapsodic
Hopefully, Nodevember will implode, and serve as an example to other
organizations.

The growing power of the hateful, vicious SJW cry-bullies will only be checked
when caving to them becomes more costly than not caving to them.

I hope Nodevember's corporate sponsors are flooded with complaints and
boycotts over Nodevember's cowardly and shabby treatment of Crockford. Next
year there will be few if any takers.

I hope Nodevember's 2016 speakers will be subject to pressure to withdraw over
Nodevember's actions.

The potential downside of associating with Nodevember needs to be made far
greater than any potential upside.

These demented SJWs will take over the world if no one stands up to them.

~~~
ben_jones
One of the bullies is actually a 'developer evangelist' at salesforce... I
find that ironic.

~~~
dickbasedregex
Is 'developer evangelist' just the term for a sales rep who makes their
personal crusade everyone's problem? Seems as much.

Also, a terrible title. It induces eye rolling as much as rockstar or ninja.

------
_pmf_
Excluding older people because they have a different kind of humor is
bordering on ageism.

------
LoneWolf
Can someone explain to someone who has not been following this (me) what
happened in a short way, all I find are huge posts and I can't spare the time
unfortunately.

~~~
geowwy
Douglas Crockford is a grumpy old man who has a history of making politically
incorrect jokes. There are a handful of inclusivity activists who campaign
against him because of that.

The main Nodevember organiser recently dropped Douglas Crockford as a speaker.
No one knows why because they haven't properly explained themselves. But
presumably it's because they're sympathetic to (or scared of) the inclusivity
activists.

This is part of a wider battle between inclusivity activists and their
critics, hence the controversy.

~~~
LoneWolf
Thank you so much, I am getting tired of these inclusivity activists that want
to force the list of speakers to be representative of every religion,
ethnicity, etc.

No I have no problems with the speakers being of any specific ethicity or
whatever. The speakers at conferences should be invited by merit or because
they can give a good talk about a subject relevant, not just the sake of
diversity, I will not care if the speaker is a woman, man, straight or gay, if
I go to a conference it is because of the theme not because it has
representation of every ethnicity etc.

~~~
geowwy
I'm going to differ on this. I 100% support inclusivity.

I really, really like my job and I know activists have the power to destroy my
career. Therefore I'm doing like Scott Adams[1] and supporting inclusivity,
because it's safer for my career if I do.

[1] [http://blog.dilbert.com/post/145456082991/my-endorsement-
for...](http://blog.dilbert.com/post/145456082991/my-endorsement-for-
president-of-the-united-states)

------
sklivvz1971
I've written a few thoughts inspired by this brouhaha. Mostly: diversity and
inclusivity need empathy and compassion to be worth having. And some wise
advice on this by Kurt Hahn.

[http://sklivvz.com/posts/diversity-being-comfortable-and-
ten...](http://sklivvz.com/posts/diversity-being-comfortable-and-ten-good-
principles)

I'd welcome respectful feedback.

------
aikah
> The tweets go on to chastize the conference for being held at a “Christian
> university”. It is worth noting: I am a Christian. I would challenge that I
> am in the minority among most conference attendees.

> The acceptance of persons from all religions are part of diversity and
> inclusivity, as a whole. This is a postion I support and encourage.

> We, as organizers, were being publicly shamed because of our inclusion

> of a speaker, in which another speaker had a preference against.

> This is not tolerance. This is not acceptance. This is not inclusivity.

Wow seriously ? and that person who got Doug unvinvited talks about
"inclusivity" while shitting on Christians and getting people kicked out ? I'm
not going to that conference that's certain. The person who got Doug uninvited
is just despicable. I'm christian myself.

How can one brag about "inclusivity" while saying this kind of crap? hypocrisy
at its finest. I hope it backfires.

This conference needs to be cancelled for the sake of the tech community.

------
nowprovision
I think Mx Kevin is quite right to step away from this grand mess, it sounds
like this all could of been avoided if the main organizer spent more than 41
minutes in deliberating what action to take when a hypersensitive social
justice warrior started venting on Twitter. Complete dog balls..

~~~
sjwright
Your reference to dog balls makes me feel uncomfortable.

~~~
chris_wot
Quick, someone prohibit talk of dog balls in the CoC!

~~~
nowprovision
All in time.. I'm expecting the banishment first..

------
alansmitheebk
Since we're keeping score on what speakers make others reluctant to
participate, I do not feel comfortable speaking at or attending conferences
where Kassandra Perch is a speaker.

And when it comes to the selection of speakers and their topics, I'm more
interested in learning about technology than hearing about diversity and
having an equal number of male, female, and gender-neutral speakers. After
all, these are TECH conferences.

------
kyrre
this crockford business is even more stupid than the eggplant issue.

glad to see ordinary, decent people are fighting back.

~~~
haneefmubarak
What was the eggplant issue...?

~~~
aikah
I searched on google I found this :

[https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/3syfzb/socj...](https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/3syfzb/socjus_github_project_nodejs_bans_user_for/?st=isrrahay&sh=3d34c693)

It might be about it since it's the same people that kicked out CrockFord from
Nodevember. I have no opinion about this specific matter nor endorse what is
said in this thread, but it looks like it is related to "EmilyRose", the same
person that wrote a blogpost on medium saying how CrockFord made her feel
unconfortable which led to the situation at hand.

------
novaleaf
> I was not apart of the decision to uninvite Douglas Crockford to Nodevember

Quite literally, the quoted sentence means "I was part of the decision". From
the rest of the article, I think the poster has a serious grammatical error.

"a part" != "apart".

[http://www.dictionary.com/browse/apart](http://www.dictionary.com/browse/apart)

------
Mao_Zedang
The left always eat their own.

~~~
PavlovsCat
Define "left". I don't have a definition either, I don't like or use the word,
but I know there have been and are people that I adore and agree with on many
things who probably would be labelled that way, and all of them would spit out
what you seem to consider "left". One example:

> _Do not preach the straight and narrow way while going joyously upon the
> wide one. Preach the wide one, or do not preach at all; but do not fool
> yourself by saying you would like to help usher in a free society, but you
> cannot sacrifice an armchair for it. Say honestly, "I love arm-chairs better
> than free men, and pursue them because I choose; not because circumstances
> make me. I love hats, large, large hats, with many feathers and great bows;
> and I would rather have those hats than trouble myself about social dreams
> that will never be accomplished in my day. The world worships hats, and I
> wish to worship with them."_

> _But if you choose the liberty and pride and strength of the single soul,
> and the free fraternization of men, as the purpose which your life is to
> make manifest then do not sell it for tinsel. Think that your soul is strong
> and will hold its way; and slowly, through bitter struggle perhaps the
> strength will grow. And the foregoing of possessions for which others barter
> the last possibility of freedom will become easy._

> _At the end of life you may close your eyes saying: "I have not been
> dominated by the Dominant Idea of my Age; I have chosen mine own allegiance,
> and served it. I have proved by a lifetime that there is that in man which
> saves him from the absolute tyranny of Circumstance, which in the end
> conquers and remoulds Circumstance, the immortal fire of Individual Will,
> which is the salvation of the Future."_

\- Voltairine de Cleyre

If you say a little candle (or even just one that is fake and painted on) is
the sun, that just means you don't know what the sun is. Keep looking maybe,
or keep rationalizing your inertness to those who would fall for it.

------
minork
Someone mistook Mr. Crockford for Brendan Eich and fired away some tweets.

~~~
throwanem
Would it have been okay if it were Eich?

~~~
hoodoof
In the U.S., anyone "guilty" must be driven into the ground for the rest of
their life, having forfeited everything.

------
gadders
Another win for the SJWs.

------
forgottenacc56
So it's because a religious person felt uncomfortable about a non religious
person (Crockford presumably)?

~~~
pluma
No, it's because a feminist felt uncomfortable about a non feminist.

~~~
dlmetcalf
Specifically an intersectional feminist. It's worth observing that Crockford's
own intersections are that he's older, white, cis-male, an authority figure;
which ticks just about every box for being an intersectional feminist enemy.
Wouldn't be surprised if there's a fair bit of ageism, racism, sexism,
heterophobia behind this, for him not being 'diverse' enough.

~~~
sjwright
Indeed. And apparently, according to these people, we must hold Douglas
responsible for being an old white male. It's his fault! He should have known
better and been a young black woman instead. Obviously.

------
thisdotwat
Holy cow, HN. Get this _less_.

Hey, hiring managers: I'm a woman with 10+ years engineering experience and
_great_ references. I'm working on leaving the tech industry because this crap
isn't getting better fast enough.

I'll work for literally any company that pays half decently and puts a real
priority on empathic communication.

Email's in my profile. Wait, no it isn't-- I'm closing this tab and not
looking back, and I definitely don't want any of these people to know my email
address.

Thanks for sticking up for me.

~~~
tnone
Empathic is a preference, and judging from your post, one you'd apply
selectively and one way.

We're the people _you_ don't want to work with, because our communication
style is different.

Nobody's required to stick up for you, your attempts at shaming not
withstanding.

