
Don't Be a Free User (2011) - oskarth
https://blog.pinboard.in/2011/12/don_t_be_a_free_user/
======
danieldk
Unfortunately, it often seems that with too little money, a service disappears
due to bankruptcy, with too much money a service disappears due to talent
acquisition.

With software as an application, there was still the possibility to continue
using software for years when a company shut down. Windows has terrific
backwards compatibility and on UNIX you get far by keeping around old shared
libraries and giving a hint to the dynamic loader.

With services, you are lucky to get a one-year heads up. Sometimes the service
disappears in mere months. For this reason, I only give my money to services
that are too big to fail (e.g. Dropbox & Office 365) or have an easy migration
path (Fastmail). Other than that I refuse to buy anything but software where I
actually own a copy.

~~~
user5994461
> Windows has terrific backwards compatibility

Windows is most backward compatible software in existence.

~~~
edp
I think that's what danieldk meant. Terrific != terrible (english is not my
primary language so I might be wrong)

~~~
TAForObvReasons
I think user5994461 meant that calling windows backwards compatibility
"terrific" doesn't do it justice. My dad wrote software more than 2 decades
ago that, amazingly enough, still runs on Windows 10 and he still uses it.

~~~
danieldk
And they had a subsystem for 16-bit OS/2 applications until Windows 2000:

[https://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windowsnt/...](https://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windowsnt/4/workstation/reskit/en-
us/os2comp.mspx?mfr=true)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Microsoft_Window...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Microsoft_Windows_versions#Windows_NT_2)

------
resoluteteeth
I think this made sense in 2011, but now the trend of acquihires has gotten so
out of hand that it hardly makes a difference; products making plenty of
revenue are still being instantly shut down after being bought out.

~~~
arcaster
VSCO is a curious case.

------
nerdponx
This is why web services should be open source and available for self hosting:

\- The geeks with the know-how to run a Web server benefit from your product
for free, but in exchange you get bug reports, patches, etc.

\- Everyone else pays, because you also offer a paid hosting option.

But because the product is fundamentally open source and federated, it can and
hopefully will outlive its original developer.

~~~
dkyc
My experience running a project/company like you describe:

1) Not the geeks, but the big multinational companies with disposable
developer time end up using your open-source solution. Exactly the types of
users I don't feel sorry for and would rather extract money from.

2) The "payback" in the form of bug reports and patches is negligible, because
nobody likes to do work if they're not being compensated (either through
money, or, more commonly in the open-source world, fame)

3) The users of the hosted version don't want to pay anything because "it's
open-source, after all".

4) People that do not have the necessary technical capabilities to host your
software, but also don't like to pay, harass you on GitHub and other support
channels because "your software doesn't work", and it "throws error messages".

The key advantage is that some people (journalists, bloggers) tend to present
you in a more positive light if you describe yourself as an "open-source
solution" rather than yet another commercial app.

~~~
oblio
Open Core for the win.

You want to use the base functionalities? Be my guest.

You want Single Sign On through LDAP, AD, etc.? Commercial edition.

You want advanced user management and permissions, etc.? Commercial edition.

You want the product to work behind a NTLM proxy? Commercial edition.

You want to use your own domain name (if hosted)? Commercial edition.

There's a handful of requests that are sure-sign markers that someone is using
the product in a corporate environment.

Of course, if the people asking for those features also provide a pull request
that complies with the project's pull request guidelines, then in that case,
things might change. Though it's quite rare that such a huge feature as AD
integration is actually provided by a project outsider (especially one that
also comes with good code coverage, respects project coding conventions,
etc.).

~~~
eloisant
There are 2 issues with that:

\- People who only need basic functionalities don't bring any money

\- People who need paid functionalities don't get to try them in the free
version

So as much I as like free tiers as a user, for a business I think "free trial"
is the way to go.

~~~
majkinetor
People who only need basic funcs provide you testing, i.e. product stability
i.e. money.

------
anondon
The term "free software" is used rather ambiguously in the article. The free
software that is referred to in the article is free as in beer. The more
commonly used meaning of the word (among hackers) implies free as in freedom.
If you want to learn more refer here [https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-
sw.en.html](https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html)

~~~
nrb
It seems like the author is indeed referring to Free Software, but then makes
a comparison to free-as-in-beer web services.

~~~
gregmac
I disagree: it seems like the author is completely unaware of the "free-as-in-
freedom" definition, and all usages of "free software" refer to free-as-in-
beer web services.

~~~
wiredfool
I'd not take any bet that maciej is unaware of any major tech movement.

Look in the third paragraph from the end:

> I love free software and could not have built my site without it. But free
> web services are not like free software. If your free software project
> suddenly gets popular, you gain resources: testers, developers and people
> willing to pitch in. If your free website takes off, you lose resources.
> Your time is spent firefighting and your money all goes to the nice people
> at Linode.

~~~
kiba
Can we live in a world where we get paid for writing free software?

~~~
rini17
Yes we do. You can double-license, you can offer consultancy services, there
are options.

------
Raed667
These arguments fall apart when you're living in a country with no access to
online, international payment methods.

And I realize that you don't want to bother with people that are not currently
potential customers, but I'm just saying that you're locking entire countries
out.

~~~
0xCMP
So it needs ads then? Or it needs to be self hosted? What's the alternative
for someone to build a business on the internet like pinboard does?

~~~
jeremyjh
What would be the point in advertising in a country without payment
infrastructure? You would have to find local businesses who want to advertise
online and who would also have barriers to paying you.

~~~
Raed667
In Tunisia for example, there is a booming payment infrastructure. It is just
limited to local currency and local stores. Local Google and Facebook ads are
flourishing.

------
saycheese
Average user can't afford pay for all the free service they receive. If each
user had to pay $20 a month for even only the top twenty websites they use and
this would be beyond the reach of the average user; Google, Facebook, Free
Apps, LinkedIn, Wikipedia, Yahoo, Twitter, etc.

~~~
avian
Is there a way to actually estimate how much money I would have to give per
month to compensate for the ads I see on the web? Perhaps some browser plugin
that counts ad impressions? I doubt that any one web site makes $20 per month
from my visits.

~~~
candiodari
[http://www.forbes.com/sites/tristanlouis/2013/08/31/how-
much...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/tristanlouis/2013/08/31/how-much-is-a-
user-worth/#d6e57f492a9b)

Relevant data repeated here. Per-user revenue for some sites:

Google: $10.09

Facebook: $1.63 (although has since doubled)

LinkedIn: $1.53

Yahoo: $1.81

~~~
avian
Interesting. Note that these numbers are per quarter, so according to this,
average revenue even for Google is only around $3 per user per month.

------
a3n
I pay for pinboard, for _exactly_ this reason. I like it enough that I want it
to be there tomorrow. Same with LastPass, Fastmail (don't know if they still
have free accounts), The Guardian and The NYT.

There is much, much more of the web that I use for free, either because they
have their own reasons for for not charging at all, or they appear to have
enough of a paying base that I'm merely small-guilty but not worried, or
because I don't care enough about them to think about the issue.

~~~
freehunter
I agree with what you're saying, but I stopped paying for the NYT for similar
reasons. My subscription isn't enough to keep them in business, so either I'm
not paying enough or they're wasting my money.

If I pay for something that I could have easily and legally gotten for free
and then it's plastered in ads, either charge me more or revisit your business
model. I want to see them stay around, yes, but I wasn't getting the value for
my money that I expected to get.

~~~
a3n
Agreed, my sub fee doesn't pay for the NYT's existence. And worse, I block
ads. I'm sure I wouldn't pay the actual fee required to support their current
operations.

I think, or at least hope, that we're in a transition period for large
operations that are currently ad supported. If ads didn't suck up so much of
my resources, _and_ were benign and didn't track me, then I'd relent. But as
it is, ads don't just buy space, they buy people and any information the ad
networks can get away from collecting, gleaning or stealing. "Homey don't play
dat."

------
joelthelion
Cool, you can pay and be screwed a second time when the company is sold
anyways.

~~~
msandford
It's some years later and pinboard shows no signs of slowing down, at least as
far as I can tell. The guy who runs it makes a good living and he plans on
keeping it going indefinitely.

~~~
a3n
I believe what you say about pinboard (and I pay), but Joel makes a factual
observation. I can't blame anyone for using a service for free, when free is
an official offering.

Merely paying for a service does not ensure that the service will continue,
and if your data or operations are integrated into a service then when it dies
it can be anywhere between inconvenient to impossible to extract yourself,
paid or not.

But that's the nature of the web especially, with its relative low barrier to
entry. I shuddered when Fastmail was acquired by Opera, and was relieved when
they split. Even old established IRL businesses come and go for various
reasons.

Nothing in life is permanent, and so logically some of what you use and know
is going to disappear in your lifetime.

------
Grue3
Meh. I don't like the subscription model. I have to pay for too many things
monthly. Every silly web service is probably not worth the headache of
trusting them my credit card details. So I will subscribe to as few services
as possible. If there's a lifetime subscription option, I will consider it.

------
alt3red
I think many services become popular and see wide adoption, because they are
free. When the free element goes away there will not be nearly as many users
willing to try it or to use it and love it so much that they will recommend
it.

------
wodenokoto
While I don't disagree with the sentiment, I do feel like $5 here and $5 there
in monthly charges quickly adds up.

mail, web site/blog (some blog services want a minimum of $10-15!), maybe git
hosting, another 5 for a bookmark service (pocket is $5, though pinboard is
only $1) a back-up solution, and so on and so on. Should I also have a paid
subscription to my internet search and social network services?

------
thatlooper
So what about HackerNews?

~~~
moolcool
I don't think of HN like a product meant to make money though, more like a big
ad for YC

~~~
anondon
> more like a big ad for YC

That is dumbing HN down a lot. This community is much more than that: hackers
share cool articles, have vibrant discussions and the comments section is
probably the least toxic of all comments sections. YC related posts are very
popular and YC itself is promoted heavily, but the community is much more than
just YC.

~~~
tqkxzugoaupvwqr
He doesn’t mean Hacker News promotes YC in the literal sense. He means Hacker
News is a popular hub for developers which are a target audience of YC. By
association, Hacker News as a property of YC helps YC stay in the minds of
developers.

------
majkinetor
Its actually very simple: do not use web services that do not provide data
liberation into some standard format.

In other words, you take a free ride wile its there then you switch to some
other solution. You might be irritated at first because you liked the tool and
its workflow but that is the only downside which is not that serious as
typically something similar will appear soon enough.

------
4684499
I thought people who "clone them" was considered unethical? a copycat? And
then if you start charging money from it, well, be read for the storm...

I totally agree with the logic of the article. And I do hope this will become
a cultural thing. I just don't believe it will be widely accepted because of
ingrained "free and open spirit".

I think, in practice, you'll be competing with fund-raising start-ups who
provides free and better services with "free and open spirit" and lots of
money ready to burn, after they took the large share of the market, small
competitors will not be the only game in town, instead, they'll be out of the
game.

That said, it's amazing that pinboard.in is still alive after so many
bookmarking services closed. I guess the philosophy of Don't Be a Free User
could work well on specific areas.

------
adjwilli
Polly Lingual [https://pollylingu.al](https://pollylingu.al) is a little mom-
and-pop software creation. We're probably in the lightest shade of green on
that chart. Someone help us!

------
ehnto
HTTPS error when trying to view. Chrome isn't happy with the ciphers
supported.

~~~
jakub_g
Http works though. I pinged them on Twitter, but maybe mods should change the
URL to http.

------
_h_o_d_
Nothing changes. Except, perhaps Facebook might be around a while. What are
your thresholds for relying on a service? I still backup my google and fb
data.

------
newsat13
Reminds me of trello. They gave everything free and made it so hard to pay
them money.. And now they are done. Slack is next.

------
pmoriarty
There's a glut of information on the internet. Great information, even. Free
great information. The scarcity of free, great information is over.

If some of these sources dry up because of lack of money, that's too bad, but
no great loss, because many other sources of free, great information will
arise to take their place.

------
akjainaj
I am a proud free user. When a service closes because of bankruptcy, a new one
always appears. Or maybe two or three. So who cares?

There's always a free alternative to every service, especially web ones.

~~~
devoply
Thank you Mr. Locust, that will do.

~~~
Michie
@devoply, I think the best term to describe akjainaj is a parasite. A parasite
is an organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by
deriving nutrients at the host's expense.

Based from his response here, I think he is just a troll.

~~~
akjainaj
I don't see how I'm trolling here.

For example, I run Spotify with an ad blocker, so I don't have to pay for it.
And years ago, when they limited the amount of minutes of music you could
listen to every month, I made tons of accounts to bypass that limitation. Why?
Because, in the unlikely case they go out of business, by then some other
service would've appeared, run by someone who thinks he won't commit the same
mistakes the owners of the previous service made.

Common sense says my system of abandoning/taking services is not sustainable
in the long term, but by now it hasn't failed me. And I'm also sure a sizable
percent of people do the same I do. Am I a troll just because I'm open about
it?

~~~
sireat
You do have a point, shipping 50lbs of pet food for free was not sustainable
for pets.com in 2000 but one could hardly fault customers for taking advantage
of such foolishness.

Let's set aside any moral/ethical implications of ab/using free services for a
moment.

The problem for you as a customer is that once the service closes it might
take some time to find a new service.

Second, your time is valuable too. Making multiple free accounts to save $10 a
month is an activity which might make perfect sense for a poor college student
but would draw comparisons with Mr. Burns if you are a middle-aged high wage
earner.

It took a while for amazon.com to get into pet food business.

When del.icio.us became slow and uncared for it took some time for me to find
pinboard .

~~~
bluedino
At what point is it not acceptable to use free accounts or discounts?

------
andrewclunn
Still gonna use Linux, sorry. There should be a disclaimer, "Does not apply to
Open Source projects."

~~~
wmeredith
He addresses this in the article.

~~~
andrewclunn
Oh wow. Read it but somehow missed that. Well I'll leave the foot in mouth
comment for posterity.

~~~
lucb1e
I missed it as well. For future readers:

> free web services are not like free software. If your free software project
> suddenly gets popular, you gain resources: testers, developers and people
> willing to pitch in. If your free website takes off, you lose resources.
> Your time is spent firefighting and your money all goes to the nice people
> at Linode.

~~~
lqdc13
It depends on the service, but I think the vast majority of free products are
over engineered in terms of using cloud services.

It costs something like $60 a month in maintenance fees for 1 VPS. Double that
and you are safe from hardware outages.

As a dating site for example, you don't need S3, cloud formation, etc.

