
Shocked by San Francisco, on my very first day - yohann305
http://www.genesx.com/2012/09/shocked-by-san-francisco-on-my-very-first-day-need-you-help-asap/
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crazypyro
I understand the idea, but I still don't think this is the right way to go
about it.... There are many well organized and already established charities
that help out the homeless. If you feel the need to help less fortunate people
out, I believe it would be better to donate to one of these charities. It also
helps circumvent the potential for the beggar to go use it for
alcohol/drugs/unnecessary purchases and it makes sure that only the people
that truly are trying to get help out of their situation get the money....

Edit: Playing devil's advocate here, but couldn't this be a way for some
"pranksters" to harass the homeless easily as well? I certainly don't have
enough faith in our fellow humans to expect this never to happen, especially
since homeless already deal with enough assaults... Between 1999-2010, 312
homeless people were reported dead from these assaults and over 800 injured
[1].

[1]<http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/hatecrimes.html>

~~~
wtvanhest
I'm always curious when otherwise intelligent people think that homeless
people shouldn't have alcohol. I can only think of several reasons why a
person thinks the homeless shouldn’t have it:

A) They enjoy alcohol, but feel that someone without a home doesn't deserve to
enjoy it. B) They don't drink alcohol which they believe is the reason they
are not homeless. C) They think that if that person stops drinking, they will
end up with a job quickly and get their life back together.

Only in rare cases is C going to work out and those cases it will probably
have nothing to do with whether you decide alcohol is right for them.

If you want to help homeless people, give them some money, not some old, half
eaten sandwich. Every time I’ve watched a friend try to give away some old
food, they are always turned down by homeless people.

I could be off here, but overtime I have got the sense that the homeless
people I see every day are not feeling bad for themselves at all. They view
themselves as hustlers, not saving, but just getting by everyday by raising a
few dollars here, a few dollars there etc. I view them as capitalists who are
making a choice every day to live the way they do.

~~~
crazypyro
Because I consider alcohol something that is an unnecessary expense and when
you are spending money on alcohol when you are homeless, I can't help but
think that there are more important things that you could be spending that
same money on. Also if I give money to a homeless person, I personally don't
want my money going to drugs/alcohol because that is doing nothing to help the
homeless person out. I'd rather it go to food or even something like a gym
membership for a month so that they can shower and get cleaned up to maybe get
a job. That's my view anyway.

~~~
nico
This is an interesting discussion. So what's the goal? Is the goal making the
homeless person happy/ier? Are you sure that by not allowing that person to
have alcohol, or by making him get a job, he's going to be happy/ier? If being
happy is not the goal, then what is it? And how do you achieve it?

------
Aloisius
Please understand that San Francisco has some of the most _extensive_ programs
for the homeless/poor in the country. There are homeless prenatal services,
clinics, shelters, food programs, healthcare, job training programs, low
income housing, mail services, free blankets, clothing, etc. Heck, there is a
program to give puppies from animal control to panhandlers and pay them a
stipend for watching them.

A good number of panhandlers aren't homeless. Many suffer from mental illness
and California hasn't done forced mental treatment since Reagan. A large
minority are addicted to drugs or alcohol.

Very few are actually hungry (in SF, food stamps come on a debit card that can
be used not only at grocery stores, but at many restaurants and even farmer's
markets). On top of that the San Francisco Food Bank distributes 100,000 meals
a day worth of food.

What I'm trying to get at here is that even with all this stuff, the problem
basically isn't going away. It is really complicated and giving someone your
leftover food might make you feel better, but I doubt it'll solve the
underlying problem.

~~~
mc32
The city, in my opinion, does provide above average (compared to other US
cities) care to homeless via many city and non-profit programs. Part of how
they fund those programs is a problem. The problem is that the non-profits are
not subject to sunshine laws so that we may not know how effective those
monies have been.

For example, over the years the city in its wisdom has seen it fit to divert
over 600million from the Hetch Hetchy system into the general fund (which is
where police, parks and non-profits can apply for funding). so now the city is
asking for a prop to raise 3.6 billion to fix the Hetch Hetchy water system
--which they'd been neglecting.

In any event, the homeless and mental illness problem cannot be a city or
state issue. It needs to become a national issue so that the problem can be
addressed nationally but delivered locally. Otherwise people with these issues
are attracted by places which treat them nicely (and thus over tax the
locality) while migrating away from places which provide little treatment
--i.e the 'nice' places get penalized for trying to be nice.

[http://www.sfgate.com/green/article/A-CHRONICLE-SPECIAL-
REPO...](http://www.sfgate.com/green/article/A-CHRONICLE-SPECIAL-REPORT-S-F-
looted-region-s-2796611.php)
<http://www.sfbg.com/39/23/cover_foi_nonprofits.html>

------
shreyansj
I couldn't help but chuckle a bit after reading this blog post. I am not sure
if I should be cheerful about this app concept or hang my head in shame.

>> Find/geo-locate the closest beggar near you

How? Homeless people are not static points-of-interest and to even consider
them like that is a bit distasteful.

>> Know how safe it is to walk close to that beggar.

Again, how? People adding reviews for an individual homeless person?

~~~
steferson
There's usually groups who go to the homeless to offer food, medicine and
clothing, they probably have the ins and outs of finding the homeless on their
city.

~~~
shreyansj
IMHO, the groups who to that, are doing a very noble thing. But dipping this
in the silicon valley startup sauce is quite insulting to the homeless
individual. What OP should be doing is working hard and contributing to these
groups/organizations who know the best way to render help and assistance.
Making this into a treasure hunt does not make sense to me. Why would you want
a random homeless already-struggling down-on-his-luck guy be disturbed by
every smartphone wielding person? Peace and solace must mean something, right?

------
corwinstephen
First off, a close friend of mine did this a few years back. He called it
hoboreview.com. He ended up shutting it down to to lack of public interest.

Secondly, the title of this post is "shocked by San Francisco" and yet the
article fails to explain what was so shocking. Was it the fact that the hobo
gave you a weird look? Or that there were hobos at all? I can't imagine Miami
being a whole lot different.

And finally, he needs our help with what? Seems to me he's so excited about
starting some sort of online collaboration / movement that he forgot to take
the time to figure out what the movement actually is.

Plus, the dude is in San Francisco for a week and decides to spend his time at
an ING Coffee shop? That's in poor taste.

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s_henry_paulson
An application targeting a vulnerable demographic, that encourages people to
put other people's personal information online, and offers a platform that is
ripe for misuse and abuse.

What could possibly go wrong?

~~~
wallawe
The guy noticed a problem and instead of being pessimistic, he decided to do
something about it and affect change. Whether you agree with him or not, you
should recognize that he is only trying to help. Instead of being snarky and
sarcastic, perhaps you could contribute to the conversation.

~~~
s_henry_paulson
Consider the sarcasm as my playful contribution, as we both know there is
nothing to contribute here because the goal is unrealistic.

The idea that homeless people, a demographic known for crime and drug abuse,
can be tracked reliably by volunteers so that other people can give them food
is laughable.

Not to mention if such a system did exist, it would be exploited by the people
who would benefit by it, bored kids, possibly law enforcement, etc. etc.

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ck2
I suspect SF is far more progressive but in my city the police would use this
to round-up and arrest them.

I am not exaggerating, it's illegal to feed the homeless in my city.

This is what we've become.

~~~
webwielder
What were we before? Elves living in blissful harmony?

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joeguilmette
am i the only one that finds this app idea a little... distasteful?

~~~
jonaphin
If it can help, no.

I certainly do see your point though.

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jerrya
Your piece makes a lot of assumptions.

Instead of writing the grossly and insensitively named "beggarmap" I'd like to
suggest you find a charity that needs volunteers and work with them for three
days.

Feed the homeless for three days, get to know them, then maybe you can decide
what their needs are and what the best way to meet them is.

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blissofbeing
Am I the only one who laughed at this? Everyone else in the comments so far
seem to think its serious.

~~~
yohann305
I'd like to point out that the beggar I fed yesterday was very excited to get
some food. If I can repeat this every day, then the app is priceless.

~~~
thom
If you do it every day, you should totally get a badge in the app. People love
badges.

~~~
ishwarn
Ten straight days and get a GOLD badge!

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kevinsd
I don't see how you were shocked.

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cyarvin
I've lived in San Francisco for 20 years. You might be interested in knowing
where your General Tso's will end up:

 _When work crews pulled open a broken BART escalator at San Francisco's Civic
Center Station last month, they found so much human excrement in its works
they had to call a hazardous-materials team._

 _While the sheer volume of human waste was surprising, its presence was not.
Once the stations close, the bottom of BART station stairwells in downtown San
Francisco are often a prime location for homeless people to camp for the night
or find a private place to relieve themselves._

[http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Human-waste-shuts-
down...](http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Human-waste-shuts-down-BART-
escalators-3735981.php)

