
Study: Tesla battery production releases as much CO2 as 8 yrs of driving on gas - danjoc
http://climatechangedispatch.com/study-tesla-car-battery-production-releases-as-much-co2-as-8-years-of-driving-on-gas/
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rthille
What are the CO2 emissions of the mining, refining, and delivery of 8 years
worth of gas?

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woodandsteel
The link is from an anti-renewables propaganda website. See for instance this
article with the title: We pay a fortune for renewable energy when we should
be exploiting fossil fuels

[http://climatechangedispatch.com/we-pay-a-fortune-for-
renewa...](http://climatechangedispatch.com/we-pay-a-fortune-for-renewable-
energy-when-we-should-be-exploiting-fossil-fuels/)

~~~
danjoc
Your argument is invalid. Ad hominem. Attacking the source doesn't make the
reported 17 tons of CO2 per battery incorrect.

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GhostVII
But it makes the article a lot more likely to use biased sources and present
the argument unfairly

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jtlienwis
Overlooked in a lot of discussion of the CO2 impact of Tesla vs ICE is the
effect of the added weight of the batteries on the amount of road damage a car
will cause. A study in the 1950's showed that road damage is proportional to
the third power of the axle weight of the car. If the Tesla weights 1/3 more
that a similar ICE vehicle it will cause (4/3)^3 or about 3 times as much
damage to the road a similar ICE. Replacing the fleet of ICE cars with Tesla
type cars would lead to the road being replaced 3 times as often. Note
concrete production is large CO2 emitter.

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c517402
My friend who is a highway engineer would disagree with you. He says that
roads will last a very long time as long as the shear limit of the road is not
exceeded, but that once the maximum shear is exceeded the road will
deteriorate. So, semis that do not exceed their weight limit are not a
problem, but hauling a bulldozer around on a flatbed with four axles when it
should have six will really do damage. It makes sense to me because my
experience has been that when anything is operated within it's design limits
it can last a very long time. So, unless the cars you are talking about have
very narrow tires, I don't think they will be the problem you propose.

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smt88
This is fake news. The people whose instinct told them that a pro-fossil fuel
blog was peddling bullshit were correct.

[http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-
electric/news/a2...](http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-
electric/news/a27039/tesla-battery-emissions-study-fake-news/)

~~~
danjoc
>The headline is based on a Swedish study. It posits that production of a 100
kWh battery—Tesla's biggest—produces 17.5 tons of carbon dioxide. We'll take
that at face value so we can dig into it here.

The link you provide does not dispute the 17.5 tons of CO2 per 100 kWh
battery. Here's a figure for you. Cars produced in 2015: 68,560,000

[http://www.statisticbrain.com/cars-produced-in-the-
world/](http://www.statisticbrain.com/cars-produced-in-the-world/)

If 100% of those cars were Teslas, that would be 1.2 Gigatons of CO2 from
battery production alone. For reference, CO2 contributed by the burning of all
fossil fuels combined is around 4-5 Gigatons annually.

[http://soilcarboncenter.k-state.edu/carbcycle.html](http://soilcarboncenter.k-state.edu/carbcycle.html)

1.2 gigatons is not a small number and that's before the cars even hit the
road. Sweden must have realistic numbers. They pledge to reach carbon
neutrality by 2050. Popular mechanics have pledged nothing.

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boznz
Genuine question but I'm assuming making the power train for a normal car
releases greenhouse gasses too.

The totals for both should be released for a fair comparison

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sunstone
Sure but I bet all the fiddly bits of an ICE car take as much CO2 as the
battery. Not only that, manufacturing thse batteries at scale is a relatively
new process that's bound to improve with time. Mechanical engines, not so
much.

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btian
Where is the report? Which journal is the study published in?

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danjoc
You didn't even read the submission, did you?

>IVL The Swedish Environment Institute has, on behalf of the Swedish Transport
Administration and the Swedish Energy Agency, investigated the climate impact
of lithium-ion batteries from a life-cycle perspective.

This is Sweden, the country that has pledged to be carbon neutral by 2050.

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huxley
Tesla has pledged that the Gigafactory would be net zero:
[https://www.treehugger.com/renewable-energy/teslas-
gigafacto...](https://www.treehugger.com/renewable-energy/teslas-gigafactory-
will-produce-much-renewable-energy-it-uses-net-zero-energy.html)

If this is accurate and comes to pass, then assuming like the Swedes did that
the batteries would have 50% fossil fuel sources for production wouldn't
apply.

~~~
danjoc
[http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1105404_tesla-
gigafactor...](http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1105404_tesla-gigafactory-
energy-no-solar-panels-yet-but-no-natural-gas-at-all)

Last I read, no panels.

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cptskippy
It's not even a third complete, I think it's a little premature to be
complaining about the lack of solar panels.

[https://i0.wp.com/electrek.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/gigaf...](https://i0.wp.com/electrek.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/gigafactory-
march-2017-2.jpeg?w=1400&h=&crop&quality=82&strip=all&ssl=1)

[https://electrek.co/2016/07/24/tesla-gigafactory-picture-
sho...](https://electrek.co/2016/07/24/tesla-gigafactory-picture-shows-
construction-double-size/)

