
A Cultural Thing: Why More Minority Women Aren’t In Tech - flynnwynn
http://www.cristinajcordova.com/2011/04/a-cultural-thing-why-more-minority-women-aren%E2%80%99t-in-tech/
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OasisG
I think the first two reasons affect everyone pretty equally, but the 3rd
rings pretty true in a couple ways.

I was lucky enough to attend several city schools with serious technology
programs/curricula. This included C++ for all 4 years of HS provided you were
on the advanced track.

That said, I still had troubles fitting into the tech world and even left it
for a time. There's a variety of reasons for this, but one of them was that I
never really felt any sense of camaraderie with the other people who were into
this stuff. Outside of computers, I often had very little in common with my
white, male peers.

They liked metal and rock, I mostly liked JPOP and Electronic music at the
time. They were worried about getting girls to like them and annoyed at the
athletes who seemed to get all of them. I was usually dating those same
athletes. Even my gaming interests seemed to diverge from theirs. I'm a
console gamer, but the guys were busy playing Counterstrike.

This meant there were FAR fewer opportunities to collaborate and learn from a
group of similarly-interested people. Thankfully, people are a LOT more open
to differences now that I'm older, but it still leaves me pretty far behind.

Note: I'm an Afro-Latina woman.

~~~
jasonlotito
> This meant there were FAR fewer opportunities to collaborate and learn from
> a group of similarly-interested people.

I'm going to tread carefully here. =)

Similarly-interested in a small segment of likes. I think it's fair to say
that in most careers, their exists a culture, and if you aren't apart of that
culture, you miss out. I see this in all sorts of industries, and the type of
people involved generally follow a well established stereotype. Their are
exceptions, and stereotyping is bad, but I think it's safe to say we all see
this and know it exists. It's not on purpose. Us white male programmers just
happen to have a lot of similar interests.

> but it still leaves me pretty far behind?

Do you find this a fault with the industry? With those white guys? With you?
Or no ones fault and it is what it is?

My own experience is that people who have the same dedicated drive for
programming but aren't interested in the same extra-curricular activities as
most programmers usually have a lot to offer. Have you found that to be the
case personally? Do you feel other people see that in you?

~~~
yummyfajitas
_I think it's fair to say that in most careers, their exists a culture, and if
you aren't apart of that culture, you miss out._

This happens to white people too. I work in the financial industry.

Typical weekend activity:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1CKesTyTpI&feature=relat...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1CKesTyTpI&feature=related)

My weekend activity:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7CtBWhrVAE&feature=relat...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7CtBWhrVAE&feature=related)

Sucks for me, but I can't find fault with other people for doing what they
like. It's not the job of the rest of the world to change to make it
convenient for me to network.

~~~
nolite
Holy shit that was intense

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tseabrooks
I'm a biracial Software Engineer that grew up 'poor'. I think the single
biggest reason I went into technology is because my parents, through some sort
of time bending super sight, saw fit to save scrape, and scrimp so that I
could have a computer at a very young age (9 years old started with Apple IIe
in 92ish, it was already outdated and we quickly bought a nicer computer).

This happened right before my fifth grade teacher sat me in the back of the
class and let me play with the 1 classroom computer with the BASIC manual
because I was 'gifted' and always finished my work early. These two events
provided tools and a framework for learning that many minority students
probably didn't have.

~~~
erikpukinskis
I wonder... as more and more kids of all economic groups have smartphones, or
even if they can't afford a service plan, an iPod Touch or similar.... it
seems inevitable that in the next decade or so almost all kids will have
access to some form of "personal" computer from childhood. I can't help but
think that would change the representation in the software industry.

Makes me think that getting really good programming games and dev environments
on SmartPhones is a great idea.

~~~
tseabrooks
Maybe but a lot of these new devices every kid has can't be 'programmed' the
way my Apple IIe could be. The early computers were devices that could write
software for themselves and the current 'post-pc' (I hate this term but it's
all I had) devices don't really enable you to write code using them for
themselves.

~~~
brg
I would argue that the inclusion of Applesoft BASIC in the Apple ][ line was
the most beneficial thing to happen to the tech field in the 80s. Perhaps at
the time it was simply a way to get traction from homebrew hobbyists. But the
impact was immense. Spending nights on end in front of green text to type in
"Home Computing" programs was the first steps taken by the many of the
greatest programmers I've ever worked with.

Newer tech products are designed to be consumable only. They are media
devices, ends to themselves and no longer tools of exploration. They do a
great job at making peoples lives more enjoyable, but its with regret I see
kids unable to begin unlocking how they work simply by typing in 10 PRINT
"HELLO"; 20 GOTO 10.

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usaar333
From experience, Asians (East & South) are far overrepresented in tech,
relative to all women.

~~~
findm
I think that most of it is due to the fact tech is mostly a meritocracy (at
its best). You're either good or you're not. You aren't judged on how well you
can socialize with your superiors, co-workers, clients nor does playing
politics wildly affect your performance/compensation. It does but I would say
less than other fields.

Also eastern culture places more of an emphasis on introspection paired with
their particular upbring which typically revolves around a lot of studying, a
solitary activity, I think its natural for that segment of the population to
find tech to be a desirable career.

Personally if I were a woman, I'd jump into tech. I'm sure being competent and
of a different gender would yield significant advantages albeit maybe soft
advantages.

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manvsmachine
There factor of risk aversion exists, but I'd argue not any more so for women
than for men of the same racial groups. This is because the risk really isn't
financial - these days everyone knows that there's tons of money to be made in
tech. The risk is in prestige - doctors often become known figures in their
communities in a way that engineers rarely do. Believe me, this can be a
_huge_ factor for people who grew up noticing that they were treated
"differently" - minorities, immigrants, women, etc. If you are doing something
awesome with your life, you want people to know about it; it can often mean
the difference between being shown respect and not.

In response to Shamiq, this could be why most of the "underrepresented
minorities" you see in tech are actually women; arguably, they have less to
prove.

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Shamiq
Funny, most of the few women I see in Tech ARE minority women...

~~~
yummyfajitas
"Minority" is a code word for "Black/Hispanic". Asians don't count.

~~~
gregbayer
Minority should not be absolute. "Underrepresented minority" only makes sense
in context.

~~~
yummyfajitas
The term "underrepresented minority" is misleading.

In any state where nonhispanic whites are a minority (e.g., CA), they are
typically an underrepresented minority (only Asians tend to be truly
overrepresented). I've never heard whites described as "minority" as a result
of this.

~~~
nbroyal
Non-hispanic Whites are not a minority in California [1]. And even if they
were, I'd be very interested in seeing any statistics that show them as
underrepresented in any context of significance (i.e. not prison).

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_California#Raci...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_California#Racial_and_ancestral_makeup)

~~~
yummyfajitas
Nonhispanic whites are 44% of CA. That's a minority.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority-majority_state>

Nonhispanic whites make up only 32% of UC Berkeley. That's underrepresented.

[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/04/racial-breakdown-
of...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/04/racial-breakdown-of-the-
l_n_485577.html#s72048&title=University_of_CaliforniaBerkeley)

~~~
nbroyal
OK, you are correct.

Though I still think the statement, "any state where nonhispanic whites are a
minority (e.g., CA), they are typically an underrepresented minority" is very
much hyperbole, which was the point I was trying to make.

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wh-uws
This generalizes to minority men as well.

Even if its not that risk taking is discouraged, risk averse or more
conservative routes are certainly encouraged more.

There is also the pressure of not having multi generational wealth to fall
back on.

Not having previously successful family to lean on in times of need or if
things don't go right is a strong precursor to risk aversion

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rokhayakebe
I hope sometimes we take a minute to just understand that technology (the
building of it, that is) just does not interest everyone. As a matter of fact
I think it only interests a minority of people so it is really difficult for
this small group to include a large subgroup of every ethnicity.

There are some things in life for which certain minorities just do not
necessarily enjoy. It is not just about women or technology.

Example: I do not enjoy going camping in the wild, and apparently 99% of black
people (whether they are African, African Americans, European do not really
enjoy this).

~~~
mkramlich
I've also noticed that there are almost no black people (in the US) on ski
slopes, camping or at the beach. And I've never assumed that it's because
they're being oppressed or that it's the result of some cultural bogeyman.
Rather that, for whatever reasons, they are just not as into it as white
people are. Also, based on my experience, I've seen almost no Asian folks
doing those activities either. Some Hispanics/Mexicans, certainly, but my
offhand sense is that they are underrepresented relative to their total share
of population as well. But it's not as extreme of a difference as it is for
blacks and Asians.

And you know what? I just don't see this as a problem. I don't think there's
any one right/perfect/proper percentage for any given human activity. Or at
least, I don't see how we can objectively conclude what those percentages are.

~~~
earl
I go to Heavenly and Kirkwood basically every weekend in ski season -- at
least until I broke my ankle mid March -- and I'd say the demographics at
Heavenly match sf pretty well. Kirkwood less so, but I'd guess that's the
difficulty getting there / drawing more people from SLT and Nevada.

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bane
There are tons of Minority women in Tech! I'd argue that there are more
minority women by percentage of total women in tech than minority men. I've
seen entire development shops with dozens of developers, 30-40% were women and
of those >90% were minority women.

The better question is the age old, why aren't there more women in tech?

~~~
cristinacordova
I should have mentioned that I was mostly referring to historically
underrepresented minority women (blacks and Hispanics). This may affect what
you have observed. Asians, in particular, are overrepresented in education and
technology when compared to the general population statistics in the US.

~~~
bane
I do have to agree partially with you. Asians (East and Indian) women are
_fairly_ well represented as a percentage of women in total. I've seen very
few Hispanic women in computing (and sadly, very few Hispanics in general).
However, I've met more black women in computing than black men. This is all
anecdotal of course, but there's some kind of deeper sociological pattern
there I'm sure.

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omnivore
I think it's an access thing. Not access just to tools, but access to people
who are doing something different. But it extends beyond tech.

------
mkramlich
I think we should be gender and race blind, and therefore also neutral, when
it comes to thinking about whether any given permutation "should" be in tech,
or should be in it in greater or lesser numbers than currently. I think a
serious intellectual mistake is made whenever someone sees a situation where
say < 50% of the folks in a given field are female, and therefore concluding
that's a "problem" or the result of some oppression, or that any given field
should be comprised of X% race A, Y% race B, X% race C, and so forth. Because
we just cannot know for sure what the "proper" or natural percentage is
supposed to be in these cases, as the baseline to compare against an allegedly
unfair percentage. Instead, let's work to make both the tech and the field
equally (and by that I mean neutrally) available, and friendly, and useful,
for everybody, period, and then let the chips fall where they may.

