
Powering the Rift - Impossible
https://www.oculus.com/blog/powering-the-rift/
======
TY
There'll be a lot of negative feedback from OSX and Linux developers.

No surprises here for me though. After struggling to get DK2 and Unreal Engine
on my Macbook Air running smoothly, I bit the bullet and bought a Windows
gaming box just for the Rift.

Considering that I bought my current Macbook for iOS development in the
process replacing my Samsung laptop running Ubuntu, this makes sense -
platforms are just tools to get things done.

If budget does not allow all 3 of them, then choose whatever system makes most
business sense for you. This should not be an emotional decision.

~~~
pera
I don't think they will even receive any feedback at all: people will just buy
Valve's Vive this year and completely forget about the Rift...

~~~
alexqgb
That may be easier said than done, given that FB has already invested $2
billion in making Oculus happen, and have openly set their sites on getting a
billion users into VR within a decade.

~~~
Artemis2
Valve has a user base and a plan. I'm really curious for the future of Rift vs
Vive.

------
Arzh
I'm still surprised how many people are mad about the OSX ditch. They think
they need a high-end gaming video card, which Apple doesn't support. Apple has
never cared about making Macs machines that play games. Why would you want to
be on a platform that doesn't care about what you want to do on it?

~~~
mrspeaker
I think most people are upset because (like me) I was developing away on my
MacBook Pro with the DK2 and it runs excellently. There has never been any
talk in the past that support would be halted.

I was just hacking for fun, but a bunch of people are already in the middle of
creating products and games and have a lot invested. The anger comes from the
about-face, coupled with a loss in time/money investment.

Seems like reasonable thing to be mad about - I'm surprised you're surprised
by it.

~~~
alexqgb
Eh, not so much. As a dev kit user, you should be aware that (a) the DK2 a far
cry from Crescent Bay, which is much closer to what Oculus plans to go to
market with and (b) that a display of Crescent Bay's caliber needs a lot more
power than what's in an average MBP to offer a proper experience of Presence.

Seriously, if you _didn 't_ see a high-powered spec coming, you may want to
reconsider your ambitions as a VR dev. If a current Mac Pro could accommodate
a Nvidia 970/80, expecting Apple support would be one thing. But in the
absence of a system that can support cards like these, what were people
expecting?

I mean, Oculus has said over and over (and over and _over_ ) that their
biggest fear is re-launching VR with a less-than-mindblowing level of quality
and getting a negative to lukewarm response as a result. "Conversion on
contact" is what they say they're after.

Your MBP + DK2 may offer a fun and easy way to familiarize yourself with the
platform, but it's nowhere close to what's called for by the experience
they've been promising to bring to market.

The good news is that they're saying the setup they've specified - though
currently quite expensive - isn't going to change anytime during the life of
the product. In other words, the only thing that will change is the price of
this setup, which should be considerably lower by the time sets start shipping
in 1Q16, and sales really get going later in the year.

------
notjustanymike
What'll be interesting is the state of VR in a couple of years. The current
system of consoles will still be well within their lifespan, but unable to
handle complex VR. The current specs will be considered entry level, making
desktops the best place for this style of gaming. The "Rift" is well named,
since we may well see a split become couch gamers and immersion gamers.

~~~
shostack
Interesting that you noted "desktops."

I used to be a big gamer when I was younger and went through a phase of having
two "gaming laptops" (really more portable desktops...those things could fry
your nuts if you put it on your lap). I now have a massive Origin desktop box
that weighs ~100lbs and is an absolute beast. However as I get older, I'm
realizing that I'd rather have that square footage for other home things and
instead switch to a gaming laptop since they are much nicer and smaller now.

I wonder if gaming laptops of the near future will be able to sufficiently
handle VR systems like the Rift. Having a truly portable VR experience like
that is a very different scenario than being bound to sitting at a desk.

Sure it might be clunky at first, but you can technically strap the laptop to
a harness of some sort and have mobile VR. You can't do that with a desktop.

------
dankohn1
I'm very supportive of Oculus deciding to focus on one platform. Though I'm a
Mac and Linux user, I want Oculus to be a success, and deciding to say "no" to
non-dominant options maximizes that chance.

Relatedly, can anyone give an estimate about how many years behind integrated
graphics chips like Intel's are from Rift-compatible performance?

~~~
Strom
Lets do some basic math to get some clue of the future. I welcome others to
provide more detailed analysis to adjust my calculations.

The nVidia GTX 970 has 3494 GFLOPS[1] of single precision processing power.
The strongest currently available Intel integrated GPU (Intel Iris Pro
Graphics P6300, GT3e) seems to have around 1000 GFLOPS[2] and is from November
2013. The September 2012 Intel Iris Pro 5200 has 832 GFLOPS[3], and the April
2012 Intel HD Graphics 4000 has 333 GFLOPS[4]. The pace of improvement seems
to have slowed down for Intel. Given a generous 25% YoY growth, Intel will
have a 3500 GFLOPS integrated GPU somewhere around 2020. There is high demand
for mobile performance though, so with additional investments, perhaps a 33%
YoY growth for performance-per-watt can be achieved? Then a 3500 GFLOPs
integrated GPU could arrive as soon as end of 2018.

Even so, if VR is even mildly successful, I can imagine nVidia & AMD pumping
out even bigger behemoths than the currently available 6144 GFLOPS[1] nVidia
GTX Titan X. These giants will also receive annual performance gains, so the
gap between heavily cooled desktop beasts and cool mobile parts will probably
remain similar.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_900_series#GeForce_900_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_900_series#GeForce_900_.289xx.29_series)

[2]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_HD_and_Iris_Graphics#Broa...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_HD_and_Iris_Graphics#Broadwell)

[3] [http://www.anandtech.com/show/6993/intel-iris-
pro-5200-graph...](http://www.anandtech.com/show/6993/intel-iris-
pro-5200-graphics-review-core-i74950hq-tested/2)

[4]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_HD_and_Iris_Graphics#Ivy_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_HD_and_Iris_Graphics#Ivy_Bridge)

~~~
dankohn1
Super helpful, thanks.

------
ohitsdom
Slightly off topic: I didn't realize how excited the graphics card makers must
be over VR until reading this post. If VR catches on for mainstream use (not
just games), that'd be a huge boon to the industry.

~~~
rasz_pl
AMD already made a bunch of slides announcing the new GPU line to be VR
dedicated

------
cwyers
For those complaining about the lack of OS X and Linux support for now:

[http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey](http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey)

95.81% of Steam users are on Windows. If anything I suspect this understates
the number of Steam users who have Windows -- I suspect some of the Linux and
OS X users dual-boot. And I am sure it definitely underestimates the amount of
Windows installs among people who have the horsepower to support the specs
they're quoting; there's almost no laptops that support the Rift, which means
the only thing in Apple's lineup that supports this is the narrow market
segment of people who own the Darth Vader Trash Can and use it as a gaming
machine, and I guess Hackintosh owners.

Resources are not infinite. Every dollar/man-hour/etc. spent on Linux and OS X
support are resources not spent on something else. If there was a more
competitive market for high-end PC gaming OSes it might make more sense to
spend those resources there. But there isn't.

~~~
Jare
> the only thing in Apple's lineup that supports this is the narrow market
> segment of people who own the Darth Vader Trash Can

Not even that, I think.

~~~
leoc
If the support for dual-GPU VR in AMD's LiquidVR works as well as it's
supposed to then the Mac Pros (or at least some of them) should in principle
be good enough, but of course that support would have to make it to OS X
first.

------
Htsthbjig
Windows requirement in 2016?

Seriously?

It looks like 1996 with companies working for free for Microsoft and doing
things like Windows only modems.

I was going to buy a Rift, now this will force me to buy a Steam machine with
the VR set of Valve.

~~~
angersock
So, based on your presumably vast experience in soft-real-time systems, 3D
graphics programming, cross-platform development, and virtual reality UX, what
do you propose is the alternative?

Hint: the reason they're probably looking at Windows--and that _you_ are
looking at Steam machines--is that there is a much more controllable
environment for deployment. Having to deal with all the crazy of, say, X11 and
OpenGL and nutzo drivers and everything when you really just want to install a
super-low-latency path for your system is just a fool's errand.

~~~
fossuser
Just to jump in here too, Bill Gates and Windows appealed to games and being
the platform to support them in the 90s when Carmack and Doom were pushing
things forward back then too.

Currently reading Masters of Doom and it's really good in case people are
interested.

Here's the Promo video shown at a Microsoft event back then ( _cringe_
warning):
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dVAhFYjp9c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dVAhFYjp9c)

------
drcode
It's surprising to me that Facebook didn't use its financial muscle to
sidestep this issue and release a sort of "console" alongside the Rift that is
heavily tuned for this particular purpose.

I suppose this will happen eventually, and that the first "Rift" is still
intended as an "enthusiast" product with a more seamless, mainstream-oriented
product to follow.

------
rasur
It'll be interesting to see how the Linux & Mac communities react to this,
considering their line about concentrating on Windows for the moment. No ETA
for Linux/Mac development restarting.

~~~
perardi
They're suggesting an Nvidia GTX 970 for a good experience. I'd wager _very_
few Macs have a GPU of that power right now.

The big sellers are the 13-inch MacBook Pro and the MacBooks Air, all of which
run Intel integrated graphics. And iMacs have mobile GPUs. Besides the
cylinder Mac Pros, and older Mac Pros with new cards shoved in them, the
entire line is short on GPU punch.

~~~
ptomato
I'm pretty sure GTX 970+ cuts out everything that's not a hackintosh, even the
workstation cards in the current Mac Pro.

~~~
perardi
Well, if Apple would spend less time crafting delightful metal bracelets, they
could pop in a Haswell CPU and a contemporary GPU into the current Mac Pro.

(Sorry. Bitter, Hackintosh-using "power user" rant.)

------
cromwellian
400 megapixels/s filtrate requirement is a low end spec. Seriously, this is
weaker than current game consoles. it's not high end at all compared to what
enthusiasts build on.

~~~
mahyarm
A GTX 970 / AMD 290 is far more powerful than current consoles too, so there
is probably more to it than that.

------
angersock
It's sad to see them scaling back on development support for Linux, though it
makes a great deal of sense given how disorganized the ecosystem is.

------
Rooster61
Hmm. I recently upgraded to a GTX 960, and I wonder if it will have enough
horsepower. It's a cool, power sipping card for the performance it puts out,
but I would wager that many of the techniques used to get those benefits will
not take well to the specific demands of those dual screens. Then again, these
are "recommended" specs, not required.

~~~
kenrikm
I have SLI 670s which is around the performance of a 970. with graphics cards
there can be a variety configs to get to about the same performance.

~~~
wlll
Right now there are issues with SLI and VR though, there's information about
this available online, particularly on the oculus subreddit
([http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/](http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/)) if you
search. Current best advice, use a single card, with SLI YMMV.

------
bronz
I was a very dedicated supporter of VR from 2012 to 2014. Unfortunately I have
come to the conclusion that VR will flounder, especially in the coveted
"seated experience" category. When the DK2s began to land on the doorsteps of
developers and fans, feedback began to pour into the forums. There are two
kinds of people: there are people who do not get simulator sickness and those
who do. After reading the feedback and stories regarding the DK2 I realized
simulator sickness was a much larger problem that I thought, and that it
wasn't going to disappear with better tracking, pixel density and refresh
rate. Some people simply cannot tolerate VR, and I doubt that even the CV1
will be able to change that. But these are only the people at the extreme end
of the spectrum, there are many others who straddle the boundary between being
sick immediately and never feeling sick at all. The problem for people on the
fence is that lateral movement in the game world is a major trigger for
nausea. If your virtual body accelerates from standing to running, your real
body expects to feel a sensation of acceleration. What this means is that if
you move around too much you get sick. And for people who don't feel sick as
soon as they put the head set on, movement is often the tipping point. This is
a huge problem because there is no way to simulate that kind of sensation
(within practical limits) and almost all of the VR experiences that people
want to engage in involve moving around in some way.

This conclusion is based solely on rational observations, and it was arrived
at in spite of huge optimism and engagement with VR and the VR community.

~~~
KaoruAoiShiho
Simulator sickness is solved? All you need is 1to1 tracking. Of course this
means a whole genre of games is impossible (first person action) but every
other genre would work fantastically (and I hate FPS anyway). I'm pretty
satisfied with it. There really isn't any sickness problem anymore.

------
mahyarm
Would a lower spec card in SLI / Crossfire work? Like 2 AMD 280Xs instead of
an AMD 290

~~~
Cushman
It might "work" in the sense that it might not make you ill, but it's very
unlikely that Oculus will support it any time soon. They're focusing on
pushing the boundary for rendering latency, which current multi-GPU solutions
don't handle well.

------
outworlder
I can get the video card requirements. The system RAM, not so much.

~~~
genericuser
Yeah, the system RAM requirement does seem a bit low. I mean 8 GB currently is
basically just saying 'No you can't hook this up to that laptop which was
designed for the day to day use of an average web surfing, Netflix watching,
and video chatting individual.' I mean it should be basically a non-
requirement for people working in computer graphics or interested in this for
gaming.

------
curiously
I'm glad they ditched OSX and Linux to focus on Windows.

OSX and Linux are not serious gaming machines. It makes sense to improve the
95% of users gaming on windows machines and sacrifice the 5% who are simply
complaining that their manufacturers/vendors won't support their gaming needs.

