
Ask HN: How to turn a “toy” side project into a business? - memn0nis
We launched http:&#x2F;&#x2F;hallway.chat a couple weeks ago and since then hundreds of teams have signed up. They&#x27;re all free users, but daily usage is pretty high.<p>Hallway started as a fun side project &#x2F; &quot;toy app&quot;. It creates temporary video rooms in Slack for teams to connect and make working from home less lonely.<p>I wanted to ask if anyone has any ideas about how to think about turning this into an actual business given there seems to be some interest?
======
afandian
This isn't the answer you want. But I have a hobby side project that I've kept
going for a decade, and which gets high enough use to feel like it's worth
keeping going.

It costs server money to run, a couple of take-away-coffees per week's worth.
In the past I did agonise about putting ads on it, or otherwise monetizing it.

But at some point I decided that as I was lucky enough to have a paying job,
the marginal returns I would get by trying to monetize the site wouldn't be
worth it, and I was happy to pay for it like any other hobby. The grateful
emails I get every couple of weeks make it worthwhile.

That was a very liberating decision. Mix business with pleasure and it stops
being fun.

~~~
_bxg1
I don't think it's impossible to mix the two successfully, but I think it
varies greatly by what the project is. Some things monetize very naturally,
other things would completely lose their appeal if you tried to contort them
into a product that people pay for.

Example: I did a project for a hackathon at UT when I was in college. The idea
was that in this day and age it's still hard to get a file or snippet of text
from one device to another unless they share some kind of account sign-in or
something. People still email things to themselves.

So I made a website called "Catch" where you can upload a file or a text
snippet, get a throwaway 6-digit code with which you can download the thing
from any web browser, and after ~15 minutes the artifact is deleted from the
server. The whole appeal of it was having absolutely minimum friction.

When we presented our project one of the first things they asked was, "how
will you monetize it?". It was something where any sort of sign-up or payment
step completely defeated the purpose, so the answer was, "we won't".

But I don't think that's the case for every fun-project. Especially if you
take a freemium approach or show ads.

~~~
hkiely
There always different types of projects. Some are platforms where If you can
get multiple thousands of users, you can generate revenue from advertisements.
From there you can scale into different business models such as freemium. The
key issue is to know what problem you are solving and who you are solving it
for.

------
movedx
This is an ad. This isn't a genuine request for help. They have everything in
place to monetize this.

They've got two massive companies that I know of using their service: Pivotal
and Coursera. They've already got a pricing model in place so it's already
monetized.

This is an add. People up voting this and acting like it's a sincere request
for help have had the wool pulled over their eyes.

I'm honestly expecting to be down voted for this, and that's fine, I can
understand why my reaction would be seen as negative, unconstructive, and so
on, but posts like this go on indiehackers.com, not HN (unless they're
genuinely a hobby project on the side.)

~~~
memn0nis
It's not an ad. It's genuinely a hobby project... We have not made any money
on it. There are teams at those companies using our app, not the companies
themselves.

My email address and main job / company are in my profile btw.

~~~
movedx
Is this you as well? [https://mightydash.com/](https://mightydash.com/)

------
lifeisstillgood
\- Actually phone up at least one new sign up per day. Ask why they signed up,
what they use it for, how it compares the the others they have used and what
would they pay for - unlimited time, number participants whatever. They will
try to be nice - assume they lie. most importantly how did they hear of you.
Pay attention to the vocabulary they use. What you are trying to get here is
your elevator pitch - but told to you by your customers "Video chat right in
Slack"

\- You now have some idea of channels to market - ten people signed up because
of a facebook post or because of a linkedin article or a google search - so
choose a channel - facebook / linkedin / SEO. Just produce ten articles or pay
for ten adverts - and see what traffic changes you get - stick at it - you are
looking for a channel to market. Somewhere somehow there is a way of reaching
a potential audience - with a sales pitch you learnt from above you want to
find where that sales pitch reaches the most of your potential audience

\- pricing - this matters less than the above especially as you are aiming at
busiesses - I would say Slack has a pricing norm so you may want to charge per
user but aim for 30/55/75 or there abouts.

\- keep trying new sales pitches, and vary the channels you try slowly.

-

~~~
memn0nis
Thanks for the advice! We don't store phone numbers, but that's great advice
to ask users for language to use.

Regarding channels, we posted on product hunt and then I think they are mostly
word of mouth

~~~
lifeisstillgood
Get some way of reaching the real customer - email, slack channel (!), just
hunt them down on linkedin. You have had people who looked at your tiny
offering and went -"Yes please I'll have some of that, lovely". You want to
understand their brains and their situations inside out.

Find one customer today. Just one. Call her, email her whatever. just one.
_Today_.

As for channels, you need a channel that _you_ can drive - product hunt is a
one shot affair. Word of Mouth - you cannot control it. its great. But it is
totally passive on your side. If I give you 10 million dollars to exapnd your
business how do you spend even one cent on 'word of mouth'?

We love the idea of building great new products that sell themselves. And
great products do - once the flywheel is spinning. But you need something
where you pay x dollars and that turns into a customer paying you x+y dollars.
(And those dollars paid might be your time to write evergreen articles on your
website that go viral and sit at top of google page 1. But even so its your
time you paid for)

(And no SEO never does that anymore)

------
kd5bjo
The same way you turn anything into a business: figure out who will pay how
much money for what. Then, figure out how much it will cost you to provide
that to them and tell your future customers that you exist. If the former is
more than the latter, you might be able to make a viable business.

Your existing users might be good leads, or they might not. At the least they
see enough value in your offering to use it for free. Talk to them and find
out what they think you’re adding, and figure out if that’s something people
might pay for.

~~~
snarf21
Interest is measured in how many will pay and how much. As said above, you
need to talk to your users and figure what features have value and what that
is. Rinse and repeat.

~~~
memn0nis
We've priced it relatively high at first, but we've also put the language "If
you want to get on the paid plan for Hallway, but don't want to pay, just
email us at support@hallway.chat with a link to yourself sharing Hallway on
social media and we'll give you a discount"

~~~
hopia
That's a good idea. Does it work?

------
yboris
I have no experience in this other than my app[1]. In my case, I chose a price
that was so low that even if a customer encounters a bug, they are still very
happy about the software overall.

My app is $3.50 and at such a low price, I don't feel obligated to ship many
updates - it stays a project I can be passionate about and happy to work on,
rather than feeling obligated and indebted. Maybe a good strategy in other
situations.

[1] [https://videohubapp.com/](https://videohubapp.com/)

~~~
yboris
ps - I also made Video Hub App into MIT open source:
[https://github.com/whyboris/Video-Hub-App](https://github.com/whyboris/Video-
Hub-App)

~~~
margani
Can I ask why you did it?

~~~
yboris
I made the app open source as one customer emailed me asking for the code,
hoping to make some changes. When first releasing the app (v1.0.0) I was
worried about making it open source (perhaps someone would steal it) but after
almost a year 'on the market' it seemed safer. I don't know how common it is
for that fear to materialize in reality, but at least in my case it seems like
no one made an identical copy (or even a similar copy for that matter) and
started distributing it (my other fear was someone creates a virus-ridden
copy).

Making the app open source improved it significantly: the customer who asked
for is initially contributed some excellent code making screenshot extraction
better (and faster). Others have added bugfixes or features. I'm really glad I
did it. I also gave a talk touching on the open source question at AngularNYC
in February (still waiting for the recording to be put up on YouTube).

PS -- my app is _Charityware_ \- I wrote a blog post about that too:
[https://medium.com/@whyboris/charityware-doing-good-with-
pro...](https://medium.com/@whyboris/charityware-doing-good-with-proceeds-
from-software-purchases-e48e66a5d1a)

------
willart4food
OK, so now you have version 1.0 of a product.

Read about MVP (Minimum Viable Product) the Wikipedia entry is fine, then the
decision tree is as follows:

Do you want to try to make a MVP out of this? YES / NO

IF YES: establish a budget, a timeline, and tangible metrics and go for it

IF NO, new decisions tree: Pivot existing product OR scratch it and start a
new one (using the knowledge acquired building this and the MVP knowledge)

------
armatav
[https://coda.io/@rahulvohra/superhuman-product-market-fit-
en...](https://coda.io/@rahulvohra/superhuman-product-market-fit-engine)

This is always a great resource for keeping that product market fit loop
really tight.

~~~
memn0nis
Great article, thanks for sharing

------
riceluxs1t
Long time League of Legends fan/player + a hedge fund SWE here. Got intrigued
into modeling basics (data engineering/research/simulation/pnl monitoring) and
decided to try a quant approach to Daily Fantasy Sports for LOL, which has
been empirically successful because the game is against other human
participants, not the house. Wanted to share my experience of turning a real
life hobby+job experience into a side income generating project

------
bachmeier
First question you need to ask: why would someone pay you $30/month to add
something to Slack?

The answer to that question is going to be a mystery to anyone reading your
homepage. "make working from home less lonely" \- I don't know what that
means, but I don't know many individuals that want to pay $30/month for it,
and it's not a very compelling argument for a business either when the economy
is in the toilet and getting worse every day.

~~~
memn0nis
Yeah we need better language. It's just a fun way for teams to stay connected.
So for $1 a day a company can add it to as many channels / use it for as many
teams they want.

------
polote
Make paying mandatory after 45 days of use for new users, keep it free for the
current users.

Ask for a monthly fee. The only way to know if users are willing to pay for a
service is to make it mandatory to pay and see if people pay, as long as you
refuse to do that you will never know :)

------
Avshalom
relentless self promotion.

relentless.

It's awful and kinda soul drain and I have no stomach for it but every one I
have ever seen that managed to pull it off did so by getting as many eyeballs
as possible and then getting as many ears possible... or getting impossibly
lucky.

~~~
movedx
You know I think you're right.

They've got two massive companies that I know of using their service: Pivotal
and Coursera. They've already got a pricing model in place so it's already
monetised.

This is an add. People up voting this and acting like it's a sincere request
for help have had the wool pulled over their eyes.

------
quickthrower2
I guess you'd need to find companies that care about spending money on this
during a tough economic climate. And "making your employees happy" by having
them take breaks might be a tough sell (even though I know yes breaks are a
good thing for productivity!).

What about this product could motivate someone to buy it?

Maybe target this to "Indie Hackers" rather than companies? They have they own
spend decision and might be happy to pay for A. not being lonely and B. the
opportunities chatting to a cohort once in a while might give - so there is an
opportunity benefit.

------
mgreenleaf
$30 seems a bit steep for the upgrade in features. If I was signing up, the
basic feature set in free seems like it would be sufficient for my needs,
especially since I'm already a Zoom subscriber. Lowering the price and
shifting the feature parity might do something.

But, that said. I'm not the target audience for it, and going to the current
users and talking to them or figuring out why they signed up and what would
sweeten the deal for them is probably the best method forward. There might be
a bit of a pivot that would make paying worth it for them.

------
kelvin0
Well Coursera, Nextdoor and others are already your customers aren't they? You
did it, it's now a business!

------
gentleman11
I am considering a kickstarter for a game this summer as the core gameplay
gets closer. Anybody have any experience with this? I think a playable, good
prototype and pre-creating a mailing list probably matters a lot

------
numakerg
\- Cold call marketing

\- Sell it as a cost-saving technology

\- Figure out how much alternatives are costing them and tell what they could
be saving

\- Offer the paid plan for a trial period

\- Limit the size of the organization, but open the free plan to more than
one-on-one

------
Igelau
(Twirls moustache)

Microtransactions. "Excavating your hallway. Time Remaining: 90 minutes --
Want it now? Buy TNT for 10 Gems!"

Gems can be bought for cash, or you can have some mined by paying Stars. The
mine yield is somewhat random and the dwarfs need frequent breaks, but it
sometimes includes loot like stupid hats you can use in the video. You only
get Stars by referring people, connecting social media accounts, signing up
for mailing lists, etc.

Gotta go now -- I can hear the RCMP riding in and these maidens aren't going
to just tie themselves to the railroad tracks. Let me know where to send the
bill for consulting!

------
hkiely
You do customer development and make sure that you are solving an exerting
pain. If there is no pain, there is no value proposition.

------
wolco
Price is too high for most. Needs a third pricing tier. 8 dollars 50 video
chats. Highlight as most popular.

Lower free tier to 5 chats.

Get more users.

~~~
memn0nis
We've priced it relatively high at first, but we've also put the language "If
you want to get on the paid plan for Hallway, but don't want to pay, just
email us at support@hallway.chat with a link to yourself sharing Hallway on
social media and we'll give you a discount"

We can look into adding tiers

------
memn0nis
Btw we just added the paid tier today!

------
glacials
I started a side project in 2013, and when I (for other reasons) left my job
at the beginning of 2019 I decided to go full time on it. I timeboxed myself
to one year to show salary-like profits.

Things that snuck up on me:

1\. I thought it'd be the same work as before, but more of it. But when your
side project is promoted to your full time job, you want to keep it that way.
You start focusing on different things, like making sure you make enough money
to keep going. My project used to be ~90% free, and after six months of
"that's okay, I'll just build more paid features" it didn't work out (that's a
whole post on why) and I was forced to move a lot of free stuff behind the
paywall, which comes with all the user backlash you'd expect.

2\. Apart from building paid features, learning how to do so and funnel people
into them is half a full-time job in and of itself. YC's free Startup School
was a fantastic resource here.

3\. The more people pay you, the more you feel beholden to them. You'll spend
more time doing customer support than you want because of the guilt. You'll
think you can resist this or engineer it away, but it just keeps coming.

Before: \- 10k MAU \- Net negative $300 a month

1 year of full-time later: \- 13k MAU \- Net positive $500 a month

Uplifting result, but not salary-like, so I'm moving on and demoting it back
to a side project. Nonetheless I don't regret this; if I hadn't done it I'd
always be wondering "what if".

------
tarr11
I thought Slack has video rooms?

~~~
memn0nis
Yeah they have video rooms... Hallway can use any video room software

~~~
codingdave
I'm 100% unclear what this product does. Slack already has video, or you can
use any other video room software to also do what it already does?

What am I missing here?

~~~
memn0nis
Oh it posts hangout rooms every X hours in any channel you want so you and
your colleagues can have a 10 minute chat. It's a fun break from work

------
duiker101
seems like you already have a paid plan. if that is not working maybe your
free tier is just too giving or the jump from free to paid it's too big and
worth it.

------
swyx
stripe atlas.

