
Vitamin D and Inflammation: Potential Implications for Severity of Covid-19 - nradov
http://imj.ie/vitamin-d-and-inflammation-potential-implications-for-severity-of-covid-19/
======
not_a_moth
Just listened to a podcast on this [1]

a) 95% of severe covid cases in Indonesia had vitamin D deficiency (n=780)

b) Darker skin in high latitudes is strongly correlated with vitamin D
deficiency

c) In Sweden, Somali immigrants make up 40% of the covid hospitalizations
despite being .8% of the population.

d) Vitamin D is also a hormone that regulates up to 5% of all gene expression
while your immune system cells have vitamin D receptors

e) 70% of Americans have insufficient (a step above deficient) Vitamin D
levels

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45rlZGRz6Qo&feature=youtu.be](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45rlZGRz6Qo&feature=youtu.be),

[Also]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_ZJ8YDOX6g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_ZJ8YDOX6g)

~~~
deng
While that may be true, I'd really like a better source than a channel which
otherwise deals with "supplements that lengthen telomeres" or the age-old
sauna-detox myth.

~~~
todd8
I was surprised to learn a few years ago that saunas might actually have
significant health benefits.

See the references below from _The Journal of the American Medical
Association_ (JAMA), _The New England Journal of Medicine_ (NEJM), and Dr.
Patrick who has interviewed the original researcher.

[1] [https://media.jamanetwork.com/news-item/sauna-use-
associated...](https://media.jamanetwork.com/news-item/sauna-use-associated-
with-reduced-risk-of-cardiac-all-cause-mortality/)

[2] [https://www.jwatch.org/fw109897/2015/02/24/sauna-use-
linked-...](https://www.jwatch.org/fw109897/2015/02/24/sauna-use-linked-
better-health-finland)

[3] [https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/sauna-heart-
presenta...](https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/sauna-heart-presentation)

~~~
deng
I explicitly said "sauna-detox myth", i.e., the myth that you can "detoxify"
your body through sweating.

~~~
shijie
I’m surprised to hear that you believe this to be a myth. The only sources
claiming this to be a myth seem to be popular news sites referencing each
other in a circular fashion. Here’s a detailed study on the matter:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312275/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312275/)

------
hannob
Can someone explain something to me? What's this Vitamin D craze about that a
lot of people in the Hackernews crowd seem to follow?

Multiple times in the past days weak studies indicating some beneficial effect
of Vitamin D have been posted here. None of them looked like anything even
remotely conclusive. This one just cries "confounder!".

But in the comments below a large number of people seem convinced that this is
definitive evidence and that they always knew their Vitamin D pills are some
kind of magic.

~~~
throwaway829
I doubt anyone here thinks it's some kind of magic, but if you've been
following the pandemic from the beginning, you've probably seen these two
doctors who both recommend vitamin D:

\- Dr. Seheult's:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM2A2xNLWR4&t=821s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM2A2xNLWR4&t=821s)
\- Dr John Campbell:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCSXNGc7pfs&t=29s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCSXNGc7pfs&t=29s)

It's cheap and has minimal downside. Pre-covid it was already known to "reduce
symptoms of colds or influenza"[0].

[0] Benefits of Vitamin D Supplementation - Journal of American Physicians and
Surgeons
[https://www.grc.com/health/pdf/Benefits_of_Vitamin_D_Supplem...](https://www.grc.com/health/pdf/Benefits_of_Vitamin_D_Supplementation.pdf)

~~~
fzeroracer
I feel like we're just repeating the exact same arguments seen for Vitamin C.
Which went through the same arguments (cure for colds, cure for cancer,
recommended by doctors etc) and ended up generally being inconclusive as to
whether or not it actually helped.

At this point I'm convinced vitamin supplements are a scam in 99% of
situations. The only time they're useful is when you have an actual deficiency
as prescribed by your primary doctor.

~~~
nradov
Vitamin supplements are mostly a scam, but you can increase your Vitamin D
level for free.

~~~
acomjean
For those that don’t know, Vitamin d is created when sunlight hits skin.

“The major natural source of the vitamin is synthesis of cholecalciferol in
the lower layers of skin epidermis through a chemical reaction that is
dependent on sun exposure (specifically UVB radiation)”

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D)

Which unfortunately doesn’t work well in the winter depending on how far you
are from the equator.

It’s fat soluble so levels can be tested.

~~~
watertom
>For those that don’t know, Vitamin d is created when sunlight hits skin.

Actually it's when UVB rays hit the skin, and only during certain times of the
day, and north of 37 degrees only during part of the year.

In order to get enough UVB rays to make Vitamin D you need sunlight from
around noon, during spring summer and fall

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257661/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257661/)

------
radford-neal
The rational calculation here is very clear.

Taking 1000 IU of Vitamin D a day has pretty much zero risk.

Going outside in the sun around noon, without too much clothing (or sunblock,
of course!), for about 15 minutes a day also has pretty much zero risk. (In
fact, it likely has benefits other than vitamin D, such as nitric oxide
production, which lowers blood pressure.)

There is substantial evidence that these measures would reduce severity of
infections such as influenza and covid-19, at very small to zero monetary
cost. It's not a certainty, of course, but it is highly unlikely that Vitamin
D deficiency is actually protective against covid-19.

Therefore, all public health organizations should be strongly recommending
that everyone take 1000 IU of Vitamin D and get some sunlight, and heavily
publicizing this recommendation.

The fact that they are not doing this is sadly an indication that the people
in charge of these organizations do not actually have a mental orientation of
_solving_ _the_ _problem_. (As you probably know, there are many other
indications of this as well.)

------
cellar_door
I don't know how you can take this data seriously. It's comparing population
Vitamin D levels vs. population COVID mortality for n = 12 countries.

Are studies like this done to justify an actual Vitamin D study? They need to
take a sample of confirmed COVID patients and test their Vitamin D levels
individually.

~~~
blumomo
You don’t always need a big n to make causal conclusions. Do you know the
story about the king who gets served a soup? Because he’s frightened that the
soup might be poisoned, he gives it to his food tester first because the king
reasons like this: „If my food tester (n=1) doesn’t die, then I probably won’t
die, too, when I eat the soup“. Many great philosophers have argued, that
people should use their common sense instead of requesting big tests.
Therefore no big n‘s are needed. Start thinking.

~~~
jwilber
??? The Kong’s conclusion wasn’t causal with any statistical certainty (which
is what the above is arguing). It was anecdotal.

Maybe the poison doesn’t work for carriers of certain genes. Maybe it’s
temperature reactive. Maybe it’ll take weeks to kill.

Just because the King observes something do not make his causal conclusions
from that observation valid. Adequate sample-sized statistics aim to bridge
that gap.

~~~
tinus_hn
Well that settles it. Better keep on doing nothing!

~~~
Fjolsvith
(n=0)

------
DoreenMichele
So, a couple of thoughts:

First, correlation does not prove causation. This kind of study is fairly
common for medical stuff and it's not some double-blind study, so it's rather
hard to draw firm conclusions.

Second, I have no doubt Vitamin D plays an important role in immune function.
It is one of the vitamins people with cystic fibrosis are typically deficient
in and this is a population very prone to respiratory infections, among other
things.

------
ggm
Prophylaxis is simple. There is a toxicity risk, and there are effects
relating to bone density, (oral Vitamin D does not always do what people want
who suffer osteoporosis, the bodies tendency to homeostasis can be an issue I
believe)

But, in the current context some thousands of IUD should be something easy to
do.

Like the thyroid risk and iodine for kids: you dont want to have to but you
know you can.

Second upside: D is now indicated in depression. And its always be suspected
in MS (higher prevelance in women, and in northern hemisphere dark winter
economies)

~~~
TedDoesntTalk
> Like the thyroid risk and iodine for kids: you dont want to have to but you
> know you can.

I'm not familiar with these. Can you explain?

~~~
yesenadam
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodine_deficiency](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodine_deficiency)

------
gnicholas
Hug of death? Archived at:
[https://web.archive.org/web/20200515044745/http://imj.ie/vit...](https://web.archive.org/web/20200515044745/http://imj.ie/vitamin-
d-and-inflammation-potential-implications-for-severity-of-covid-19/)

------
hmd_imputer
Just a few days ago there was an article which claimed that Vitamin D
supplements were useless (also referring to scientific research). Seriously,
at some point, one starts not believing anything related to vitamins, since
they seem to contradict one another all the time.

~~~
sojournerc
Supplemental vitamin D is not as effective as that naturally produced by
exposing skin to the sun.

This is perhaps what you read, and doesn't invalidate thre findings here.

------
rapsey
The most effective way to get Vitamin D in your system is a Vitamin D lamp.
Taking D3 is a limited substitute. Switching to a lamp had an immense and
immediate effect on my insomnia.

~~~
andrewstuart
What about just getting some sun?

Not effective?

~~~
worldadventurer
Use this calculator to figure out how much sun time you need given your
latitude/longitude, cloud cover, elevation, etc.
[https://fastrt.nilu.no/VitD.html](https://fastrt.nilu.no/VitD.html)

~~~
m0llusk
And keep in mind that using your skin to generate Vitamin D from the sun is a
complex process that takes time. Exposure during the day typically results in
Vitamin D being made available in the evening, and thorough washing can reduce
yield.

------
aden1ne
I am getting an SSL error for this page. This website serves a self-signed
certificate for/by "odin.com" in Russia.

------
Fjolsvith
Noob question: If a person is obese, do they have greater propensity to
Vitamin D deficiency? Reason I ask is I read that its fat soluble, and so I
was wondering if having a greater BMI caused less Vit D in the body.

~~~
nradov
Obesity is correlated with vitamin D deficiency.

[https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/obr.12239](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/obr.12239)

------
nl
I wish people would stop posting studies like this.

It's a junk correlation study, done at a particular time when Southern Europe
was hit the worst. If they did it now, with Britain surpassing all those
countries they'd get a different result.

Maybe they should do a correlation study of "Vitamin D vs Estimated number of
Covid cases in country at date of lockdown" and see what they get.

(Also I'd note they conveniently fail to point out that _Northen_ Italy was
hit much more badly than Southern Italy).

~~~
tomcooks
They mention Northern Italy right off the bat

~~~
nl
> They mention Northern Italy right off the bat

They do.. without pointing out that's where the outbreak first originated, or
comparing with Southern Italy by offsetting infection dates.

With epidemics the originating location (and the dynamics around it) is the
key factor, and their failure to note that is what I'm calling out.

------
andrewstuart
I wonder if kids have higher vitamin D than adults?

~~~
core-questions
They probably go outside more often, at the very least.

------
balb0a
Get out and sunbath, enough about supplements:)

~~~
hmd_imputer
Wow, thanks, I am cured. You know that currently a lot of people all over the
World who cannot go out, right?

------
warmfuzzykitten
Pretty thin. Even ignoring the accuracy of the source data, there are plenty
of outliers on that graph. Before I'd assume vitamin D has any effect at all
on COVID-19 death rate, I'd compare Sweden and Scotland.

