
Getting a PhD in Norway is nearly free--even if you're not a citizen - aagha
http://www.studyinnorway.no/Tuition-Scholarships/Tuition-fees
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p4bl0
I didn't know that people were paying to do a PhD anywhere on earth. In France
I'm fairly sure it is even forbidden to do a PhD without getting paid (if you
don't you have to justify that you have incomes by other means or something to
be able to register as a PhD student).

~~~
alkonaut
There is a cultural difference in whether PhD studies are seen as an add-on
education after normal university studies, or if it is an employment as a
teacher+researcher.

In Sweden it's the latter, so students are employed as PhD students and get a
salary (though usually not very competitive compared to what you would make if
working elsewhere).

The fact that the PhD students spend a lot of time teaching and not only
educating themselves and working towards their thesis is what makes take
around 5 years, rather than, say 3 years.

~~~
kaeluka
I'm a PhD student in Sweden. I'm expected to work 20% of my time for the
University (teaching duties, conference organisation, mentoring new phd
students). I'm getting payed a little bit lower than what the industry would
pay. It's possible that salaries in the industry would also raise quicker. My
PhD is supposed to take 4 years of research, but add in the 20% and you have 5
years.

I have very high job security and a salary that's a bit lower than a
coder/consultant starting salary. Also, my work is much more interesting (to
me) than what it would have been out there. It's a great deal for me, but
YMMV.

~~~
p4bl0
> I'm getting payed a little bit lower than what the industry would pay.

You mean for a "normal" (if I may) industry job or for doing a PhD within the
industry?

Because before starting my PhD, the salaries that I've been proposed by
recruiters from various companies were more like the double (and sometimes
more, like with Google or high frequency trading firms) of what I'm making as
a PhD student (but for a way less fun job, as you say).

~~~
letzjuc
In Germany I get paid around 3.500 Euro brutto per Month for pursuing my PhD
at my university. Same conditions as the parent post: expected duration 5
years, 20% work time dedicated to university,...

That's around ~44.000 Euros per year (including perks).

I interviewed in 4 companies before deciding to go for the PhD (all
engineering jobs). The salaries varied from 45.000 to 55.000 Euros brutto per
year, with one offer at 60.000 Euros.

Friends working in industry make around 50.000 Euros which matches with my
experience. Making a bit less for working in _your_ PhD is a really good deal
here. If you find the right PhD for you it can be very gratifying (plus you
are working for yourself). OTOH my friends in industry work way less hours
than I do, so if I had a family I would probably had never gone the PhD way.

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cabinpark
I have never heard of a PhD student who isn't getting paid to do research.
Even at the Master's level, most students were getting paid, with the
exception of the coursework people. Are there people who are actually paying
for their PhDs? If so that is definitely not the norm.

~~~
denzil_correa
> Are there people who are actually paying for their PhDs?

Yes, there are. I know Cornell(USA) has had such positions. But yes, it is
definitely not a norm.

~~~
cabinpark
Wow that's the worst. I would NEVER pay for a PhD out of my own pocket. I
mean, yes the PhD isn't "free" in the sense of I don't pay tuition. I do but
it's included in my funding.

I asked a former university staffer about it once and they told me the money
doesn't exist. The university "charges" me x dollars per term, but in my
funding there is conveniently an extra x dollars per term in addition to my y
salary from the university. So I then tell the university in my funding forms
that they owe me x+y dollars and they are like "oh, well we have to deduct x
dollars for your tuition". So the net effect is the money doesn't actually
exist.

What subjects were these PhDs in by the way?

~~~
denzil_correa
> What subjects were these PhDs in by the way?

I am talking specifically about Computer Science. This is not even a modern
instance. The first case I've heard about is in 1999.

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fulafel
Living expenses in Norway are astronomical if you're not locally employed.

[http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-
living/city_result.jsp?country...](http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-
living/city_result.jsp?country=Norway&city=Oslo&displayCurrency=USD)

~~~
varjag
You can live on PhD stipend fairly comfortably though.

------
graeham
I'm doing a PhD in the UK, and there certainly are people who are doing a PhD
without funding (and paying quite high tuition, outside the EU is nearly
£20k/yr), although they are a minority. I would guess 10%, less in STEM
subjects. I started my program with only about half my funding in place while
making plans to have secondary income to help fund my studies. Fortunately I
was able to find the funding for the remaining part of my program, but it
seems that most who try to find funding once starting their studies aren't
successful in finding it (at least in the UK).

Acceptance to the program is quite a bit easier than getting funding. I
wouldn't recommend studying without funding - in addition to the expense I
have seen these students are often treated as second class.

In Canada, most people were funded in research assistantships coming from
their PI, or had independent scholarships. This covered tuition and about
$10,000 salary for research-based Masters or $15,000 for PhD, and could be
supplemented by about $5000/year by teaching. This is marginally enough to
live on without loans if you were thrifty and don't have dependents. I didn't
know of anyone who wasn't paid (in Engineering - I think there were in Arts).

Its worth noting especially for STEM people that the biggest cost is probably
opportunity cost compared to the salary (or start up) you could be doing
instead of a PhD.

TL;DR - not paying tuition for a PhD isn't newsworthy.

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arnsholt
The title is a bit misleading. While it is true that Norwegian PhD students
don't have to pay tuition, they're also salaried employees of the university.
My PhD position pays at the lower end of what an engineer can expect to be
paid in the public sector (and certainly lower than private sector), but it's
still more than enough to live comfortably off: my salary is about 400k NOK
(~66k USD, according to Google).

------
jsumrall
Not free, but the people of Norway feel like education is important enough
that they choose to pay for it through taxes rather than make the individual
pay.

~~~
arethuza
Doesn't "free" in a context like this mean "free at the point of delivery" \-
not "doesn't cost anything".

[NB "free at the point of delivery" is how the UK NHS (all 4 of them) have
always described their services]

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xerophtye
I wonder why the poster put "PhD" in the title, where as the articles says "at
all levels including undergraduate, Masters, PhD"

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magic8ball
PhDs in the US are paid to teach and often receive grants to do research.

~~~
chrisBob
If you are getting a PhD in the US, and you aren't getting paid for it, then
you shouldn't be in that program.

Technically my program charges tuition, but everyone gets a paycheck every
month, and the department pays itself your tuition fees. I just owe the school
$20 a semester for "student fees".

------
tyd
university is free in most european countries

~~~
xioxox
University (degree level) cost != PhD cost

In the UK, in the sciences, a PhD place comes with funding from a research
council. An institute gets funding for places, which they award.

For arts subjects (I believe), an application by the student for a particular
project is made to a funding body. It is possible, however, to fund yourself
if you cannot get funding. I know a very dedicated person who did this,
funding with part time work. He's now a lecturer in a good university in the
UK.

~~~
Xophmeister
My understanding is that you're never guaranteed RC funding and, also, the
cost of doing so is that you have to do the research particular to that grant;
so you've either got to hope for something related to your field, or go for
something close enough to keep you interested. I've heard (sorry: no
citations) that here in the UK, around 60% of PhDs are actually self-funded --
to pay the tuition fees, mostly -- and while I don't know the breakdown, that
also includes research in the sciences. The upside of self-funding is that
you're free to research what you want, within reason (i.e., it's actually
worthwhile, the university agrees and you can find a supervisor, etc.)

------
pontifexa
So, the point of the linked article isn't that you are expected to get your
PhD without being paid for your research work. Most if not all PhDs in Norway
are paid or sponsored.

The point is that you can, having finished high school, go to Norway and get
the whole 8-9 years of bachelor->masters->phd education completely free of
tuition fees (disregarding the nominal ~100/year enrolment fee).

------
olssonm
It used to be the same way in Sweden, all educations were free even for all
foreigners. The hope was that once the foreigners took their exam they would
stay in the country.

However, it didn't pan out too well – now foreigners from non-EU countries
have to pay around (varies somewhat at the different universities) 9000USD per
semester.

------
pjan
In Belgium you get paid to do a PhD. For engineers it is competitive to market
rates, for all other majors it's even much higher than what they receive in
the private sector (but harder to get into/less possibilities.

This also applies for non-citizens.

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jebus989
Undergrad for free == interesting and not all that common (though does happen
elsewhere in EU, e.g. Austria)

PhD for free != interesting, I'm paid a tax-free stipend (UK) which also
covers tuition fees (same for MSc). There are "self-funded" positions
advertised but it's generally junior faculty trying their luck for overseas
students. I've never heard of anyone actually paying out of their own pocket
for PhD study in the EU.

~~~
n0mad_0
> I've never heard of anyone actually paying out of their own pocket for PhD
> study in the EU.

That probably also indicates that phd is only for those who managed to find
funding. Is it hard to secure funding for studies in the UK for the UK or EU
nationals?

~~~
jebus989
I agree. Honestly I'd say no (off-hand), obviously high-tier institutions are
competitive but PhDs are cheap labour for senior academics and cheap to fund
from a research council perspective.

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onazareth
You get paid in Norway to do a PhD. I got paid more then than having a job in
the industry in my native country.

