
Google Decides to Monetize Maps - tornadron
https://adage.com/article/digital/google-flips-switch-its-next-big-money-maker-maps/2163976
======
dininski
I can't stress enough how much of a bad idea this is. I was stunned when a few
days ago I was looking up something on Google Maps and started seeing
advertised locations/suggestions.

Even though I love the product and have been a fan of Google products for the
longest time, their current strategy of monetizing everything they can is very
off putting. The direction Chrome is taking is also concerning.

Don't know what really is going on at Google at the higher levels, but from an
outsider's perspective is seems like they are aggressively trying to grow even
more. Maybe to raise stock price? But to invest in what? Maybe to compete with
Apple and Amazon? I can't be the only one who thinks it all seems odd - going
from "don't be evil" to shutting down a massive number of projects with a lot
of potential (e.g. Inbox, Fiber)...

Don't mean to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but looking at the bigger
picture, it looks like Google's strategy is going through some changes and I'm
not convinced this would play out well for them in the end.

~~~
technotony
Why should they offer a free maps service? They are a business with
shareholder responsibilities, not a charity, and maps must cost them a ton of
money to operate.

~~~
coldtea
> _Why should they offer a free maps service?_

The shouldn't. They should be forced to close, and Maps and Search should be
provided by a non-profit, internationally controlled (UN etc), organization,
not a for-profit company.

That's my opinion of what would be best. Some services (like "indexing the
world's knowledge") are too important to be left to private interests and be
monetized via ads...

~~~
manigandham
Forced to close? Why? That's a terrible authoritarian idea.

The only solution is more competition, not less. Trying to limit who can do
what has only ever led to worse outcomes. There's nothing stopping a non-
profit group from creating maps today if they wanted to.

~~~
coldtea
> _Forced to close? Why? That 's a terrible authoritarian idea._

I don't believe "authoritarian" applies to companies. If anything corporatism
is authoritarian.

~~~
manigandham
What exactly does "force to close" mean and how does it work in a free-market
capitalist society then?

If there are valid regulations to follow then sure but that's not what the
parent comment seems to be suggesting.

~~~
coldtea
> _What exactly does "force to close" mean and how does it work in a free-
> market capitalist society then?_

There's no "free-market capitalist society". Just a really-existing capitalist
society (like "really-existing socialism" which touted one set of values, but
practiced another), that sells to people the lie that markets are (and can be)
free, when they aren't in most ways that matters.

~~~
manigandham
This is a pedantic dead-end. The market is free enough. Regulation is not a
problem, as already stated, provided the legislature is looking out for
citizens and making the proper laws.

None of that has to do with Google being "forced to close" its Maps just
because you don't like ads.

------
blueski
Our Google Maps bill went from ~$100k per year to $380k per year as a result
of these changes. Needless to say, we're moving over to Mapbox.

What Google seems to miss is how this will affect customers' receptiveness to
other Google products in the long-term. Having pulled the rug from under us
once, there's no way we could consider e.g. a migration to Cloud in case the
same happened again (where moving to a different provider would be far more
painful).

~~~
blantonl
I agree. I get that when you build your business around someone else's API
that you are responsible for any changes and you should be prepared when
business models change, but this would be analogous to milk prices going from
$1/pint to $3.80/pint.

A 280% increase in pricing after you've gained dominance in market share is a
tough pill to swallow and left a really bad taste in developer's mouths.

I too have moved on to Mapbox, and I suspect the OSM group was thrilled at the
changes since now their mapping efforts probably increased tremendously. We're
probably going to roll our own map tile servers based on OSM since Mapbox as
well is pricey, but not Google Maps pricey.

~~~
43920
Mapbox actually fired the majority of the people they were paying to work on
OSM a few months ago [1]. I don't really know why, and it seems like a really
odd decision (unless maybe they're developing their own non OSM-based map),
but if anyone knows why I'd love to find out.

[1] Compare
[https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Mapbox&diff...](https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Mapbox&diff=prev&oldid=1638241#Current_Data_Team_members)
to the current list:
[https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapbox#Mapbox_Data_Team](https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapbox#Mapbox_Data_Team)

------
_bxg1
One of my absolute favorite things about switching to iOS is how minimalist
Apple Maps is. No more nagging "suggested businesses" (ads), no more promoted
locations, no more prompts to rate or tag things. Just a map, a search field,
and sometimes a subtle prompt for directions to a location I actually go to on
a regular basis. I love apps that aren't constantly trying to sell me things.
Unfortunately they feel almost alien in today's world.

------
JohnFen
I stopped using Google Maps a few years back. I received a notification on my
phone that a store I was near was having a sale. It was clear that something
was leaking my location, and that was being used to push ads to me through
Android itself.

A little investigation revealed that the culprit was Google Maps. I
uninstalled it at that point and never looked back.

~~~
sabareesh
So what do you use now

~~~
xemoka
Check out maps.me for iOS and Android -> Open source, uses OpenStreetMap data
(you can fix it!), offline maps with regular updates.

~~~
BubuIIC
Ugh. In it's core Maps.me might be a good app. But it's sooo full of tracking
stuff [1]. And I'm not even sure exodus catches all of them :-/.

There's a fork on F-Droid just called Maps, which removes all those trackers
and works really well. [2] Unfortunately there's currently an issue with
downloading the maps data, which makes the app currently unusable without
manual workarounds. [3]

The other option would be OSMAnd[4], which is a great app but maybe not quite
as user-friendly as maps.me/maps when initally getting started with it.

[1] [https://reports.exodus-
privacy.eu.org/en/reports/search/com....](https://reports.exodus-
privacy.eu.org/en/reports/search/com.mapswithme.maps.pro/) [2]
[https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.github.axet.maps/](https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.github.axet.maps/)
[3]
[https://gitlab.com/axet/omim/issues/78](https://gitlab.com/axet/omim/issues/78)
[4]
[https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.osmand.plus/](https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.osmand.plus/)

~~~
astrea
Off-topic, but this was my first time hearing about Exodus and I spent quite a
bit of time on there. How is it possible that Facebook has zero trackers?
[https://reports.exodus-
privacy.eu.org/en/reports/71538/](https://reports.exodus-
privacy.eu.org/en/reports/71538/)

~~~
jeromegv
Everything that happens in your Facebook app is saved directly into the
Facebook infrastructure. They don't leak it to other companies, they just own
it themselves.

For those other apps, they leak the tracking to 3rd party services. That's
what those trackers are.

------
cageface
Google is really leaving the door open here for Apple to step in and offer a
services bundle with a monthly fee that doesn’t involve stuffing advertising
into every nook and cranny of the user experience.

I generally prefer Google’s services to Apple’s but there might be a tipping
point soon where I’m willing to sacrifice some features in exchange for a
generally less creepy product.

~~~
Tsubasachan
You are assuming people would pay for an ad free GMAPS. Google tried this with
YouTube Red. It doesn't work.

Apple users may be willing to pay for apps, Android users don't swing that
way.

~~~
cageface
Ad free won’t be enough. I predict there will be some kind of monthly bundle
that includes a lot of different services. News, music, video and premium
features on top of things like maps. Getting people to pay small amounts for a
bunch of individual services is harder than charging them one lump sum per
month for everything.

~~~
snaky
We can imagine something like 'an iPhone experience' pack for Android, and
it's technically feasible - and may attract some attention from the customers.

But the question is - if you could get 'a pretty much iPhone' in your $200
Android for a couple of bucks a month, why would you ever buy an actual iPhone
for $1000?

~~~
pdimitar
\- Better battery life (if you disable background app refresh).

\- Unified and consistent UI (subjective but I like it).

\- No ads or privacy threats in general unless you try really hard to make
them work on your iDevice.

\- Guaranteed OS updates for 5+ years.

I'm probably forgetting some more.

An "iPhone experience" on an Android won't be even close to an iPhone. It
could be used as a tease to prompt people to switch to an iPhone, though.

------
joshfraser
Google tracks your exact location every few seconds. They know which stores
you visit, which restaurants you frequent, which friends you spend the most
time with, how often you go to the gym, who you're sleeping with and much
more. The targeted advertising and surveillance capabilities that are possible
as a result of this level of data collection are absolutely terrifying.

~~~
samirm
Is this assuming you have GPS on all the time or are you saying they're
actively tracking everyone's locations using other means as well?

~~~
JohnFen
Google does not rely solely (or even primarily) on GPS for its location
tracking. It also uses methods like triangulating based on what WiFi APs your
device can see.

~~~
samirm
source please?

~~~
magicalhippo
Any Android phone with semi-recent Android version.

Here's the disclaimer from my phone: "Location may use sources like GPS, Wi-
Fi, mobile networks, and sensors to help estimate your device's location.
Google may collection location data periodically and use this data in an
anonymous way to improve location accuracy and location-based services."

They have had similar-worded ones for a while now.

IIRC basically if the phone has GPS enabled it'll upload the list of visible
APs from that location, so they can use that as an estimate for when a phone
without GPS is nearby.

~~~
JohnFen
Yes. They publish that online, too, as part of their privacy policy:
[https://policies.google.com/privacy](https://policies.google.com/privacy)

------
brianpgordon
> Before the changes, Owczarek’s startup got 750,000 free map views a month
> and then was charged 50 cents for every 1,000 views on top of that. Then
> Google started charging after 30,000 views and the cost was $7 per 1,000
> views. His costs jumped from nothing to $5,000 a month.

 _Ouch_. How could that possibly be worth it? Are they just trying to squeeze
money out of businesses that are already locked into the Maps API? It seems
hard to believe that your average startup that needs a map widget (like, for
food or pharmacy delivery) would go with Maps instead of OpenStreetMap at that
price level.

~~~
tssva
Although I appreciate the effort that has gone into and continues to go into
OpenStreetMap the reality is that their data set is still pretty poor in
comparison to Google Maps. I would not want to create a delivery business that
depended upon it for success.

Just last month I found myself in need of a source of map data for a personal
use application and thought of OpenStreetMap which led me to looking up my
home address. Unfortunately I couldn't find my address by searching, so I
zoomed in on my neighborhood. About 50% of the street names in my neighborhood
were incorrect, so I spent time correcting them. The last time I had visited
OpenStreetMap was about 4 years prior. On that visit about 1/3rd of the
streets in my then neighborhood didn't appear.

~~~
Doctor_Fegg
Guessing you're American? OSM is very often better than Google in Europe and
other parts of the world. It's spottier in the US.

~~~
BubuIIC
Agreed on that. Although in Canada the OSM data seemed really, really good
when it came to national parks and trails. Not so much inside Vancouver.
(Still enough for navigation by car and on foot, but finding addresses was a
major PITA.)

------
nullc
Maps has been awful and getting worse for a long time.

If it's not routing me 25+ miles further to save "1 minute" (really a multi-
minute slowdown in the 90th percentile) then its failing to give
comprehensible directions in order to interpose business names.

Maybe the monetization is finally makes competing with it attractive enough.

~~~
Gene_Parmesan
And the app has become absolutely atrocious performance-wise. It used to load
nearly immediately, but starting ~1.5 years ago I began noticing extreme
slowdowns. Now it's barely functional for me. Every part of the UI is
appallingly unresponsive -- taps that take 5 seconds to register, hitches in
animation, etc. From tapping on the icon to being able to get underway
(including typing in an address) used to be about five seconds or less. Now
it's upwards of thirty.

This coming change to their monetization (really? mining our location data
isn't enough?) is just going to be the final impetus I need to find some other
solution.

~~~
jandrese
On my old iPhone the performance is still fine, but the volume controls have
been broken for ages. Basically you can only change the volume while it is
speaking (otherwise it changes the ringer volume). So you have to guess when
the phone is speaking and then smash the volume up button in the hopes that
you guessed correctly. And of course you have to do this blind because you're
driving at the time to trigger the turn prompt. Very annoying.

~~~
fortybillion
Settings -> Sounds & Haptics -> Change With Buttons: OFF. Now the volume
controls will only ever change the audio volume and never the ringer volume.

------
mch82
Meanwhile... MapKit.js has “a free daily limit of 250,000 map views and 25,000
service calls”
[https://developer.apple.com/maps/mapkitjs/](https://developer.apple.com/maps/mapkitjs/)

~~~
CamperBob2
If I can't use it on the desktop, though, it's not much good to me.

Edited to answer daveidol's question due to ridiculous HN rate-limiting: Apple
doesn't license Apple Maps for anything other than their own mobile platforms
as far as I can tell. It can't be used as a general-purpose Google Maps
replacement.

~~~
Uupis
DuckDuckGo have switched to Apple Maps as their mapping solution.

~~~
CamperBob2
I only see Bing Maps, Google Maps, HERE, and OSM...?

------
pojntfx
May OpenStreetMap prevail!

~~~
clydethefrog
I wish there was an app using OSM that had at least some usability and design.
I tried some but had to quit out frustration.

~~~
thinkingemote
Sometimes you have to sacrifice usability for something more important. AMP is
a good example. Users love it. It's more usable, but HN thinks it's evil.

~~~
JohnFen
> Users love it. It's more usable

Not all users. I hate it, and I don't really find it more usable. I find it
more limiting.

The complaints about AMP are not unique to HN, either. I see them in all sorts
of other places.

------
kgwxd
A few months ago, I noticed navigaton saying thing like "take the next right,
after Key Bank". Clearly an ad, as there is nothing ambiguous about the turn.
Haven't seen it mentioned by anyone else, am I the only one?

~~~
puzzle
It's not an ad¹. A lot of humans navigate that way, for many reasons. Google
has done research on that through the years. Landmarks might be easier to spot
and are an useful confirmation that you got the turn right. Do you never ask
yourself if you just made a mistake? Perhaps you got distracted by a
passenger, another vehicle or a pedestrian.

The street name you are turning onto might be not as visible because the sign
is small, covered by a large truck or not well lit at night. Key Bank is
probably harder to miss.

Or there might be no street name at all, which is often the case in places
like India, where Google has been testing this for many years. In that case
you have no choice but to use landmarks.

¹Or, at least, one that you can purchase now. It might happen in the future,
but of course they'd have to be careful when rolling this out. Imagine if they
used a business that is not very distinguishable and thus not a real landmark.
That would diminish Maps' utility.

~~~
flukus
I remember reading a pop-sci article many years ago about a study that found
women were better at navigating by landmark and men were better at more
abstract directions like maps and compass directions, with gay men being good
at both.

So while this is annoying for me it could be great for the other 50% of the
population, would be nice if it was optional.

~~~
puzzle
I found in my own amateur UX studies that there are drivers who hear "in a
quarter mile, turn right" and don't know how far that is, even after having
heard that prompt thousands of times. You'd think that after a while they'd
build a mental model of the distance. Instead, they seem to just tune out the
"in a quarter mile". This is one of the classes of users for which products
need to be designed. (I have similar problems with people's heights.)

Also, as a passenger it's fairly easy to say "turn in five blocks" and track
how many blocks are left, maybe even while holding a conversation. For
drivers, that seems more difficult, probably due to cognitive overload, unless
it's just a couple of blocks. And I've noticed that some drivers react to that
kind of direction by scanning the view and quickly translating the number of
blocks to a landmark.

~~~
sct202
Oh yeah I love when people measure turns by the number of intersections to
pass. Things like quarter mile or 1000 ft are hot garbage for me in terms of
understanding how close I am to needing to turn, since it depends a lot on how
fast I'm moving.

~~~
devit
Yeah, I don't understand why mapping software doesn't just say:

* after the next 2 intersections, turn right

* after the next intersection, turn right

* turn right at the next intersection

* TURN RIGHT NOW

* you missed the turn right, ....

Other huge annoyances:

\- Not telling you which lane it is optimal to stay on on multilane roads

\- Not telling you which road signs to follow outside urban centers via voice

\- Not telling you about speed limit changes

In general, I find the guidance to be barely usable instead of being excellent
as it could be

------
dontbenebby
I guess that explains why Google started nudging people to log in when using
the iOS maps app.

They made it really hard to click through and use it without an account
recently. Between that and that story about giving map data to LEAs[1] I
removed it from my phone entirely.

[1] [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/13/technology/google-
sensorv...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/13/technology/google-sensorvault-
location-tracking.html)

------
blunte
The cookie popup for this site... Which selection means No and which means
Yes?

Also, after submitting my "preferences", I actually got to watch a custom
progress meter creep thru the %s until I gave up around 80.

What a fucking disaster our modern internet is.

~~~
coldpie
Install NoScript. The web gets 100x more usable.

------
bscphil
I think this is taken word-for-word from this Bloomberg piece:
[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-10/google-
fl...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-10/google-flips-the-
switch-on-its-next-big-money-maker-maps)

~~~
robjan
It's a syndicated article

------
tinus_hn
This article is rather confused about the Google Maps service for users and
for developers/webmasters.

They aren’t starting to show ads in Google Maps because they have been doing
that for a long time. They just started limiting the free service for
developers a few months ago.

------
ff_
I think this is pretty ok news: if Maps gets too annoying to use an increasing
amount of people will start using alternatives, which will get better because
of this, and in the end it will make it easier to live a Google-free life.

------
growlist
A good reason to look at alternatives.

------
CharlesColeman
It was a mistake to let so many basic reference sources become ad-supported.
The goals of hosting ads and hosting trustworthy reference information are
diametrically opposed.

------
ericol
The problem I have with Maps is not the eventual monetization (By ads?), but
how much Google sucks at doing that in a non disruptive way; not to mention
I'm constantly arguing with the app as what is the best path, but I digress.

If they are to monetize it, they should take a hint from Waze (That, funnily
enough, was bought by Google few tears ago) as to how do in map advertizing
right.

They also have a lot of missed oportunities: The very few times I had to
search something when using the app (Be it having to rush to a gas station, or
in desperately need of an ATM) Maps has failed miserably.

Finaly, these apps are optimized for "First World" environments, and they also
fail just as miserably in other places (Or other dimensions, as the one my
country, Argentina, seems to be in)

~~~
moftz
Waze has the dumbest ads. Like I'm not going to stop at a KFC or grocery store
in the middle of a roadtrip. Why would I buy groceries now and how in the
world would I eat fried chicken and drive?

------
decebalus1
Great. I stopped using Google Maps the moment I bought my IPhone.
Unfortunately, it seems I'm in the minority when I say I get a better
experience with Apple Maps. Apple Maps with carplay for the past year have
been miles ahead of Google maps with Android Auto on all accounts for my
trips. I was skeptical at first but I was never rerouted on weird residential
neighborhoods / state highways or switch 3 freeways to shave off a minute of
my trip, very accurate estimating traffic and transit time, etc... Keep in
mind, I was also a huge fan of the Zune.

~~~
gumby
Apple’s coverage is spotty; quite good in many major cities and certain less
urban environments, but there are vast areas where its coverage is pretty
sketchy.

Like you I mostly use it in areas of good coverage and think it’s great. But
some places I’m SOL and have to switch to google as a fallback.

~~~
decebalus1
That may be the case. My trips have mostly been around the west coast high
density areas.

------
ashishmalik
Think about those who wish to start new business? Why? Because of money!
Google is doing the same thing, growing Growing, utilizing every small space
that Google occupies, earning money from it. Why Not!

~~~
ebg13
Some businesses make the world better. Some businesses make the world worse.
Let's not pretend that the two are the same.

~~~
jfoster
Are you trying to imply that Google and/or Google Maps have made the world
worse?

~~~
ebg13
Are you trying to imply that adtech has made the world better? Are you trying
to erase the difference between _mapmaking_ and _tracked advertising_? My eyes
are about to fall out the back of my head, I'm rolling them so hard.

Google's core business is tracking you and shoveling ads at you. Every time
they pollute one of their side hobbies with their core business, it makes that
side hobby worse and worse for the world. Search, mail, news, I can go on.

~~~
jfoster
You dodged my question, but I'm happy to answer yours. I do think that
advertising has made the world better. A majority of the content on the
internet is viable because of it.

~~~
ebg13
> _I do think that advertising has made the world better. A majority of the
> content on the internet is viable because of it._

AKA the "harmful behavior is ok when it's profitable" theory. I don't agree.

~~~
mrep
Would you rather have every website prompt you with a paywall instead because
that is the only other profitable solution I can think of.

~~~
ebg13
You are either ignoring the context of this subthread or agreeing with it.
I'll remind you: ashishmalik says "Everything is ok because money!"

------
Zigurd
Google already extracts a lot of hard, quantifiable value from Maps, partly in
the form of valuable data, but also including ads and other promotions.

This article is about developer pricing for the Maps API. The article doesn't
really delve into _why_ Google is squeezing more money out of small app
developers. The only plausible thing I can think of is to prevent losing ad
revenue to apps that don't include promotions, but that seems like a stretch.

------
ketcomp
I only have Google Maps on my phone because I am location sharing with my
family. Is there an alternative? I will gladly uninstall it then.

~~~
julkali
There are always alternatives. For Maps, check out

.) OsmAnd
([https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.osmand](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.osmand))

.) MAPS.ME
([https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mapswithme...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mapswithme.maps.pro))

For other alternatives to avoid getting your habits turned into money by big
companies, check out [https://ethical.net/](https://ethical.net/)

~~~
aw3c2
I am not aware of a live location sharing function in OsmAnd.

~~~
BubuIIC
There's this: [https://osmand.net/blog/osmand-telegram-
released](https://osmand.net/blog/osmand-telegram-released)

But I guess at that point you can just use Telegram for location sharing.

------
Malic
> “...You don’t expect them to pull the carpet from beneath you...”

Ah, yes, yes I do.

I work in an agency doing client website development and Google's recent price
change for map services caused us to look elsewhere - abruptly. We're all
about MapBox now - Google Maps has become too expensive.

------
User23
I stopped using google maps when they tried to force me to turn history on to
update my home address.

------
mark_l_watson
Does this apply to users who are logged in with a G Suite account?

I pay Google $12/month for services and although I am happy enough with their
combined product right now, I have an easy migration path away from G Suite if
that changes.

------
pkaye
Maybe they are trying to move away from advertising supported "freeware"
model. Charge directly for things at point of use.

------
Causality1
I'd be happy to do a one time purchase for a permanently ad-free maps
experience but I doubt Google would offer that. I stayed on an old version of
maps for years after Google crippled functionality by combining Navigation and
Maps into a single app, I'll be happy to do it again to avoid ads.

------
davidmott
Gosh, this could be risky for Google. But it was always going to be
inevitable.

------
layoutIfNeeded
Suddenly I’m fine with Apple Maps.

------
bassman9000
More?

------
ChuckMcM
Oh, what a surprise, not.

It is pretty hard not to see this coming with Google's falling margins on
search advertising. Let's review how things have gone for Google over the last
10 years.

2009 the big mortgage recession hits and Google, like everyone else, sees
businesses suddenly cut back on what they are willing to spend on internet
advertising. As Google's CPC metric begins to free fall after years of growing
or holding steady, Google sees the core metric of the only business they have
that makes money at the margins they need to exist, well its dying.

In response they start by buying more traffic. This means they start paying
third parties to send traffic that includes a search to Google so that Google
can put ads on it. Sometimes that means paying a browser company to send
search your way, sometimes it means paying a competitor with a smart phone
offering to send the search traffic it generates to Google rather than an
upstart. Importantly, that upstart (Bing) is reporting _increases_ in their
CPC as more advertisers start seeing them as a credible alternative to the big
G. Bing is also buying traffic from EVERYONE and kind of "psuedo" buying it by
offering access to their search for free through the old Yahoo! BOSS API.

This works for a short period of time, but not for very long so the next thing
Google does is to reduce what they paid "other sites" for using their
Advertising engine. That let them put more of the money on their own bottom
line. This was collectively experienced by millions of web sites that found
their AdSense for content ads went from paying $1K a month to paying $100 a
month. It was exacerbated by the falling CPC as well. Spammy ad sites
proliferated at people who used to make good money with these Ads were
desperate to hold onto that revenue stream.

This fix was limited though because, well you can't save yourself out of
bankruptcy. You have to grow the top line to keep ahead. So Google began a
campaign of adding more and more advertising (some overt, some not so much) to
all of their own properties (reported as Google Sites in their earnings). More
and more search results were actually ads rather than organic results. And for
things that indicated a "commercial intent", ie that the data cow on the other
end was looking to spend money, well those queries result in a veritable
cornucopia of paid spots, with payments to be in the 'shopping windows' or
payments to be on the page, or payments to be higher in the results. White or
black hat SEO be damned, there just isn't room on a search result page with
commercial intent for an organic result.

Meanwhile Google, now as Alphabet, was pouring cash into bet after bet, and
unwilling (or unable) to find a way to nurture even modest successes began a
series of project that consumed cash, never were profitable, and then were
killed. And things which one might expect to be profitable like a worlds
largest video service, or "Google class" cloud computation, struggled. Service
after service foundered on a fundamental challenges like having a human being
the paying customer could call to get answers to problems. Combining that
legendary non-customer service with the propensity to yank services has put
tremendous headwinds on any Google offering that asks its customer to rely on
it for anything other than a peripheral capability.

Year after year, as the money from ads was harder and harder to get, they have
stayed ahead of that decline by killing projects, reducing the amount of money
they share with the people who create the content, and trimming back on the
"perqs" they used to so freely lavish on their employees.

They can't get robots right, they haven't been able to get self driving cars
right, they can't make money with services when their customer service is non-
existent, they haven't been able to make money with videos, or books, or much
of any other of the worlds information. There are really only two things that
people consider "indispensable" and even those are becoming less so, their
search engine and their maps.

One makes (to a reasonable approximation) all of the money, and one just costs
money. So yeah, they are now stuck trying to squeeze money out of maps because
they can't improve the core value of advertising with them. Especially not
with all the new restrictions on selling the data cows data milk to third
parties.

What I find most interesting is that Google has _decimated_ Garmin's market.
Garmin would make anywhere from $30 to $75 per sale on their "navigator"
products, which people used for their turn by turn directions and ready maps.
Google gave away their maps for free on phones that Google made little money
on. That used to be okay, but now it appears that trying to get some revenue
out of this product is the only way to avoid the dreaded "year of year
decline" in top line revenue. That has so many ill effects from taking the
stock price down to creating a competitive opening.

Apple is uniquely positioned here, they have maps and they have devices to
show them. Sort of the 21st century version of Garmin where their maps are
just a feature of a bigger device. If Apple invested in a privacy first search
engine with organic results and limited their advertising aspirations to a
modest net income for the group I think they would seriously wound Google.

Interesting times ahead.

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techmortal
This will have a detrimental effect on smaller businesses. Those with small
teams of developers that have worked tirelessly to build their software around
Google's maps APIs. This will damage long term relationships with Google and
this mid size firms.

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npsimons
Hey Google recruiters, in case you're wondering why I don't respond to your
emails asking for interviews, you should know that things like this don't
really make me want to work for you.

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wortelefant
Evil webdesign patterns on this site: After I opted out of all but "required"
cookies, the popup kept me waiting for several minutes with "processing
preferences", inviting users to cancel the opt-out. Shenanigans like this one
has become my main use case for read-it-later-apps like wallabag/pocket these
days.

