
My Internship Experiences at Pixar, Google, and Two Sigma - ericjang
http://evjang.com/articles/internships
======
mehrdada
> you'll see lots of edges going from Goldman, Microsoft, Google, and Facebook
> to Two Sigma. There are very few edges going the other way.

Perhaps one reason for it that they don't advertise is the ridiculous non-
competes that their employees have signed and it's limited their future career
options. I have first hand experience with this. They had the audacity to ask
me sign a 18-month IP assignment (basically with FROR), a 1-year non-compete,
and a fucking 5-year non-solicit (much stricter than the non-solicit in a
Google's contract) clause. They want slaves, not employees. Of course I threw
up on that contract, especially considering their history of bringing criminal
lawsuits against their former employees. Avoid.

~~~
kyushiro
I went from TS to Google and personally know quite a few: \- They only enforce
non-compete if you actually go to a competitor (like rentech, KCG, Citadel).
You also get paid your normal salary during those time (just to chill around).
One of my friends is using that to travel all over the place. If you go to
other tech company like FB or Google then you can start the next day (which I
did) \- I only have 2 years non-solicit so may be that's a recent change. It
doesn't affect you that much though (you can't refer people you know from TS
or give them recommendation, that's it). \- If you actually follow the law
suits, those people actually tried to upload model to external servers. If you
try to do that with Google's HIP code I'm pretty sure they would do the same
to you.

I picked TS offer over Google offer before and now that I'm on the other side
I regretted nothing. Both are great place to work.

~~~
PhasmaFelis
> _They only enforce non-compete if you actually go to a competitor (like
> rentech, KCG, Citadel)._

Does the contract _say_ that?

Never trust anyone who asks you to sign away your firstborn, but says "Don't
worry, it's just legal boilerplate, we don't enforce it!" If it's not
enforced, it shouldn't be in the contract.

~~~
cpwright
They have to pay you not to work if they elect to enforce it; the contract
actually says that. They don't actually enumerate who is a competitor, but in
practice they aren't interested in enforcing against Google, Facebook etc.

~~~
kyushiro
Yes. One MD told me that non-compete is not enforceable if you don't pay. I
don't think anyone want to pay six figures and lots of good wills for no good
reasons.

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scrumper
The writer seems mature and should go far.

If he wants advice from someone in finance, I'd steer him towards Pixar. The
math might be harder and the prestige may be greater at the hedge fund, but
making beautiful things is inherently satisfying. Sweating to make a big
number get a bit bigger isn't good for the soul in the long term.

~~~
programmer_1452
> Sweating to make a big number get a bit bigger isn't good for the soul in
> the long term.

I've been working as a programmer for the last 5-6 years, and I strongly
disagree.

Pixar, Google and Two Sigma, and many similar companies in these industries,
are ultimately absolutely pointless and empty. Entertainment (distraction),
ads (mind pollution), and arbitrage (stealing) is essentially what they do.
Working for any of them will become mind-numbingly boring and damaging to the
soul very soon.

There are only two things that keep _me_ motivated; (1) hard problems, and (2)
money. (1) are hard to come by, most of my time I spend dealing with stupid
problems caused by stupid people. (2) is why I work on pointless problems, the
more I earn the sooner I can retire to do something actually useful.

Therefore, I think that working for a hedge fund in a money-generating role
can do wonders to one's motivation; the better you are, the more you earn. Not
many roles, in general and in software development, offer such direct payoff.

~~~
rwallace
Be that as it may, it's worth noting Google does other things as well. You
could always try to get a job there working on self-driving cars (saving
lives) or solar energy (saving the world).

~~~
jpatokal
Obligatory nit: those are now things that Alphabet does, not Google.

~~~
CardenB
Google is the brand still.

Plus, it's Google[X], which is a subsidiary of alphabet. So nitpick that if
you want to nitpick. It still wouldn't be called Alphabet.

Also you still apply to Google for the job.

------
jfb
This made me laugh:

> What I did in my spare time Browse the intranet for juicy info Browse the
> intranet for juicy info Browse the intranet for juicy info

------
Cookingboy
Very objective write up Eric. I'm an Xoogler with good friends working/worked
at Two-Sigma, and it's pretty much what you described. Good luck on whatever
you decide to do, don't stress out too much on your first job choice, there
are no wrong decisions here.

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gavazzy
Mirror (down at 4:54EST 8/17/2015)

[http://pastebin.com/8t0BquQg](http://pastebin.com/8t0BquQg)

~~~
thenobsta
^^^ This is why I love HN.

Thanks!

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ericjang
Hi all, author here. thx for the upvotes. Webpage is back up.

~~~
e40
_" If you care most about raising a family, work life balance (i.e. work the
least hours) and job security, you really can't go wrong with Google."_

This is such at odds with everything I've heard and read about Google, I'd
like to know if there's a typo in that sentence, and if not, how to you square
the wider perception with your perception?

~~~
ericjang
All I had to compare Google to were my limited experiences in the other two. I
thought Google was the most laid-back of the three.

No doubt you've heard about dinner cafes opening late to keep employees at
their desks, but the reality is that a lot of people's productivity slows down
from 5-6 anyway (that was ping pong hour for me). Go! cafe is open all day,
and lots of people grab a sandwich before skedaddling at 5pm sharp.

Maybe there's more pressure at some teams to put in more hours. I have no data
on that.

I think overall vacation benefits, hours, and pa/maternity leave are slightly
better, but I'm not certain.

~~~
kyushiro
TS's medical plan beats Google handedly, no copay, no deductible for a minimal
$7/paycheck (just so you can refuse it if you want). TS also starts out with
20 days vacation compare to Google 15. Hours is the same, you do whatever you
want to get it done.

~~~
ericjang
ok! thanks for the info ;)

------
Rainymood
How do you even manage to land such internships? It baffles me. How can
somebody after their first year of CS bachelor's education get an internship
with Pixar, and then with Google in the second year, and then with (bloody)
TWO SIGMA in the third year? Stuff like that is just ... incomprehensible here
in Europe (Netherlands). Crazy!

~~~
ericjang
It helps to be a student studying at an elite american university - pedigree
opens a lot of doors, for better or worse. Also, I had a shit ton of luck with
interviews and recommendations.

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austinhutch
This is a cool post, but I hope it doesn't get him blackballed by any of the
mentioned companies.

~~~
Cookingboy
I highly doubt it will happen. He is very objective about the pros and cons,
in fact if I were running the internship program at those places I'd take
these as valuable feedback.

And he put all of them under a positive light anyway (probably well deserved
too).

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RealityVoid
I am amazed at how awesome the projects page of his website is. I see so many
successful people on here, I just... wow..

~~~
CardenB
I had a similar reaction. It's incredible. He definitely deserves his success.

Someone like this working on iOS Play Books is the biggest downside to working
at Google.

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jacques_chester
> _you 'll see lots of edges going from Goldman, Microsoft, Google, and
> Facebook to Two Sigma. There are very few edges going the other way._

Is this surprising? Big tech companies employ orders of magnitude more
technologists. In many small tech companies you'd expect to find a similar
pattern.

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chrisbroadfoot
> At Google and Two Sigma, interns are kept in an "intern container"

As an employee of Google who has hosted numerous interns, I can say this is
not true. Interns have broad access to information at Google.

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rajacombinator
The author was definitely most passionate about Pixar. But he'll probably
decide based on prestige and go with Two Sigma. For most programmers, Google
is probably the best of the three for future career opportunities.

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justizin
Website over quota. :/

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otisfunkmeyer
i use ios play books! your work is not in vain!

