
Show HN: how to approach sensitive conversations  - zekenie
http://www.betactful.com
======
rpedroso
Looking at this, I'm not quite sure what the thumbs up/down signify. For
example, on the cancer Don't list:

 _Offer unsolicited advice. Telling people what to do when they don 't ask for
help is rarely a good idea, even if your intentions are the best._

The above has 2 thumbs up and 4 thumbs down. I can interpret that two ways:

\- 2 people agree that you shouldn't offer unsolicited advice, but 4 people
think this rule is wrong.

\- 2 people thing you should offer unsolicited advice, 4 people agree that
offering unsolicited advice is a bad thing.

It gets more confusing with this one:

 _Be patronizing or condescending._

8 thumbs up, 8 thumbs down. Would anyone disagree that you shouldn't be
patronizing or condescending when talking to a friend about their cancer? I
have no idea what the thumbs up/down means.

~~~
zekenie
Thanks for the feedback! The ups and downs are just smoke screens right now.
Its just to show future functionality. We're about to present at the hackathon
presentation.

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RyanZAG
Oh wow, I'd recommend turning off the ability to add suggestions before
actually demoing this on a stage or anything. You're at most an hour away from
being flooded by all kinds of very rude suggestions.

[http://www.betactful.com/just_lost_their_mother_or_grandmoth...](http://www.betactful.com/just_lost_their_mother_or_grandmother)

------
fdb
I recommend "Difficult Conversations", which is an excellent book on this
topic. It gives many good examples of difficult conversations, analyzes them
and provides great advice.

[http://www.amazon.com/Difficult-Conversations-Discuss-
What-M...](http://www.amazon.com/Difficult-Conversations-Discuss-What-
Matters/dp/0143118447)

------
steveklabnik
I can really appreciate this idea, but, uh, how to put this: reddit/hn style
upvoting and downvoting is not going to lead to good advice at being tactful.

The entire point of the site, after all, is that people don't often know how
to be tactful. So asking those same people to crowdsource answers isn't going
to work out.

Also, as soon as /b/ gets wind of this...

~~~
zekenie
Good feedback. What model would you suggest? We got the feedback that experts
could be useful.

~~~
steveklabnik
Yup. There are people who specialize in this kind of communication: work with
them to get real answers backed by experience. I love the wisdom of crowds,
but I think this is one case where expert opinions are key.

------
jefecoon
Thought this very interesting and potentially useful.

I added a suggestion under 'person going through a divorce,' e.g:
''Acknowledge it's going to be a difficult process and transition period, but
give them hope they may be happier after''

When I posted my suggestion immediately had 7--8 thumbs-ups & downs. The
second it was added to your site...

Let me suggest you either fix your impossible-to-not-notice bug on up/down-
voting, __or__ immediately remove your "just add a few numbers..." code which
makes it look like your new site has more engagement than it actually does.
Since if the point of your site is to let users optimize advice for difficult
situations it strikes me as wrong you'd be randomly adding numbers into that
equation for the sake of making it look more useful / validated / engaged than
it really is. Your 'bug' or whatever else (really) rubs me the wrong way. Fix
this bs and good luck.

~~~
zekenie
This was a huge fuck up. I'm really really sorry that this offended you and I
totally understand how it could. I didn't realize it was going to get content
which is stupid of me. I'm sorry and I'm fixing it now.

------
danso
I know the intent here is well-meaning, but I suspect this app will get a lot
of derision from people who dislike the "there's an app for that!" trend, or
the idea that so much of human experience can be encapsulated either by
algorithm or the wisdom of the crowds.

In particular, this area of human experience is very dependent on context, and
what is tactful is not easily captured by a bullet point. And one of the
consequences is that the wisdom of the crowds is not going to be
helpful...it's not enough to say that something was tactful, because it
depends on the situation and the person involved.

I've liked reading essays on how to comfort someone in times of need, not just
because they're interesting, but because they show how complex it can be.
Here's one column I still remember from the NYT a couple years back:

[http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/12/fashion/what-to-say-to-
som...](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/12/fashion/what-to-say-to-someone-whos-
sick-this-life.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0)

In the OP's app, for example, one of the top voted suggestions is: _Offer
assistance. Example: "Please let me know if I can help."_

From the perspective of the NYT op-ed writer, that sentiment is the top thing
_not_ to say:

> _1\. WHAT CAN I DO TO HELP? Most patients I know grow to hate this
> ubiquitous, if heartfelt question because it puts the burden back on them.
> As Doug Ulman, the chief executive of Livestrong and a three-time cancer
> survivor, explained: “The patient is never going to tell you. They don’t
> want to feel vulnerable.” Instead, just do something for the patient. And
> the more mundane the better, because those are the tasks that add up. Want
> to be really helpful? Clean out my fridge, replace my light bulbs, unpot my
> dead plants, change my oil._

Who's right or who's wrong? I'm not saying either the OP or the op-ed writer
is more correct, just pointing out how much nuance is involved here.

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quasque
FYI, your domain is listed as a spam domain in the Spamhaus DBL (I couldn't
access it from work).

[http://network-
tools.com/default.asp?prog=lookup&host=betact...](http://network-
tools.com/default.asp?prog=lookup&host=betactful.com.dbl.spamhaus.org)

[http://www.spamhaus.org/faq/section/Spamhaus%20DBL#291](http://www.spamhaus.org/faq/section/Spamhaus%20DBL#291)

------
iamwil
I think it can be very helpful, as I often don't know what to say. But it must
be seriously moderated, esp if the answers are crowdsourced.

I thought of all sorts of funny things to say under "Don't", though I
controlled my impulses. This is a site that currently teeters between useful
seriousness and utter potential for hilarity. If it's meant to be the former,
than the mods need to guard hard against the latter.

~~~
zekenie
Good feedback. I think its made to be serious.

------
booop
Nice. This would be great as a mobile app as well. Also you need to fix your
dns configuration, can't access via
[http://betactful.com](http://betactful.com)

~~~
zekenie
Thanks!

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elliptic
Ought "just lost their mother or grandmother" really be a single category? I
don't know if I'm acting correctly, but I tend to approach those two
conversations rather differently.

------
shifu
good idea . I tried posting this on Twitter this is what i got " Oops! A URL
in your Tweet appears to link to a page that has spammy or unsafe content."

------
pvnick
Great idea! Looking forward to the planned functionality being built in.
Bookmarked for future usefulness

------
zekenie
FYI this was built for a health literacy hackathon.

