
Diet Drinks are not killing you - perseusprime11
https://medium.com/the-method/diet-drinks-arent-killing-you-54c9e5d06c30
======
URSpider94
Stripping away his sensationalist headline, the author is 100% right that this
study proves basically nothing. The author does not control for either
diabetes or BMI, two factors that are well known to increase risk for stroke,
heart disease and dementia. Also, one might reasonably expect that someone who
is obese or diabetic might in fact drink more diet soda than the general
population. So, in fact, the results are well-explained by simple correlation,
not causation.

That said, the fact that this study doesn't prove a significant connection
between diet soda and these diseases, doesn't mean there isn't one. It's
really hard to prove a negative. The best we can do is keep looking for a
negative impact -- the longer we look and don't find one, the more likely that
there isn't one.

~~~
duncan_bayne
People have already spent a _lot_ of time and money looking, at least in the
case of Aspartame.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy)

> FDA officials describe aspartame as "one of the most thoroughly tested and
> studied food additives the agency has ever approved" and its safety as
> "clear cut."

~~~
spangry
Why the downvotes? This is true to an almost absurd degree. The following food
/ health standards agencies have found aspartame to be safe for human
consumption:

\- World Health Organisation

\- US FDA

\- British Food Standards Agency

\- European Food Safety Authority

\- Health Canada

\- Australia and New Zealand Food Standards Authority

\- And a whole bunch of peer reviewed, double-blind RCTs

Although, I should disclose that the Aspartame Illuminati pay me a commission
whenever I make a positive mention of the additive :)

~~~
tmnvix
Not sure about the rest, but doesn't the Australia and New Zealand Food
Standards Authority just adopt the USFDA stance where appropriate? Are you
saying that they did their own research in this case?

~~~
spangry
_Not sure about the rest, but doesn 't the Australia and New Zealand Food
Standards Authority just adopt the USFDA stance where appropriate?_

I don't know. What leads you to think that?

------
danblick
Perhaps I'm just eccentric, but I avoid artificial sweeteners because I think
they support behaviors that will ultimately lead to weight gain. (In
particular I suspect we may subconsciously learn that sweet foods do not
provide energy.)

On a related note... Science has led to many amazing things, but that doesn't
mean it can realistically answer all questions. I think we should remember to
be a bit humble and honest about which questions can be answered
scientifically and which can't. Unfortunately, individual researchers and
journalists both have incentives to make the most out of any result.

~~~
untangle
> In particular I suspect we may subconsciously learn that sweet foods do not
> provide energy.

What do you mean by this?

~~~
danblick
Something like this:

[http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/news/20130710/could-
artifi...](http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/news/20130710/could-artificial-
sweeteners-cause-weight-gain)

"After a while, Swithers said, it's like the mouth keeps crying wolf, and the
brain and gut stop listening. As a result, when real sugar and real calories
come along, the body doesn't respond to them as strongly as it normally might.
Calories don't end up making you feel as full as they should. They aren't as
rewarding. So you don't get the signals that might stop you from eating when
you should."

------
GIFtheory
There is still plenty of evidence that diet drinks are killing you, or at
least making you fat:
[https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/11/161122193100.h...](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/11/161122193100.htm).

~~~
cholantesh
One study of a small number of male mice is really not significant evidence.
This is at best a pilot study.

~~~
littleweep
Anecdotal counter point: I have never seen a skinny person that regularly
drinks diet cola

~~~
vmarsy
Bill gates is a famous example, with many cans per day :
[https://www.inverse.com/article/22652-bill-gates-diet-
coke-s...](https://www.inverse.com/article/22652-bill-gates-diet-coke-sugar)

~~~
littleweep
From the article you posted, a counterpoint that's not a medium article:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892765/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892765/)

~~~
cholantesh
The neurological argument is very much in its infancy, with very little in the
way of true experimental evidence, yet laypeople throw it around as if it's
well-established theory. Neuroscientists, however, are pretty humble and
hedging about it: every paper on the subject is littered with mights, maybes,
perhapses, and "more investigation is needed"s.

------
valuearb
I still quit, and am happier for it.

~~~
zenonu
My 3pm headaches that'd come on because I was drinking 2 diet drinks a day
completely disappeared when I quit. I still crave the bitter sweet taste of a
Diet Coke, but fuck those headaches. The occasional regular soda drink is that
much more satisfying instead as well.

~~~
mahyarm
How much of it was sodium or caffeine?

~~~
cholantesh
Exactly. There are plenty of other ingredients in a soda, why home in on the
sweetener?

------
paulcole
This is what makes the internet so great. It's trivially easy to find an
article that affirms whatever you want to believe about nutrition.

Want to drink soy sludge and live forever? Have I got a site for you! Looking
to skip breakfast and lunch in the name of science, here you go! Eat no meat?
Eat all meat? Both work!

~~~
Neliquat
As someone who eats mainly keto/paleo as a prefrence/habit, and has vegan
friends, the huge variaty of acceptable diet for humans is amazing. I even
know people who eat food from bags and boxes, where the source caloric
material is indecipherable, even with an ingredient list. Yet we all live
well.

~~~
Baeocystin
An awfully large % of the genetic difference between us and our nearest
relatives are genes that relate to the gut. Being a true omnivore has its
advantages!

------
addicted
Maybe I am not understanding it correctly, but it seems to me that an initial
analysis does show a correlation between dementia and consumption of diet
drinks, but once you adjust for factors that could cause dementia (such as
diabetes) that correlation disappears.

But doesn't that imply a correlation. Eteeen diet drinks and diabetes? So
maybe diet drinks don't cause dementia, but they do lead to diabetes, which
then increases the odds of dementia. How do you conclude "drink away" from
that?

That would also fit other studies that have shown that drinking diet soda
instead of sugar soda leads to no weight loss, likely because people
compensate by getting their sugars elsewhere. Which would match well with the
idea that diet soda consumption correlates with diabetes.

~~~
URSpider94
That's an interesting idea, but there is no proof for this in the data, and in
fact that's a common logical fallacy.

Let's assume a population that lives on an island that sits on the equator.
One side of the island is polluted with radiation. It also features a kind of
purple fruit that doesn't grow anywhere else and is not exported.

Now let's assume that the fruit contains a cumulative toxin that causes people
to die very young of brain cancer.

A study without adequate controls might conclude:

\-- Living near the equator causes brain cancer \-- living on this island
causes brain cancer \-- radiation causes brain cancer \-- eating purple fruit
causes brain cancer \-- radiation causes people to eat more purple fruit

Only one of these is true, but one could certainly invent reasons to explain
nearly all of these correlations as causal.

In the case of this study, an alternate explanation that makes sense is: \--
diabetes causes dementia \-- diabetics are strongly encouraged to drink sugar-
free soda to avoid sugar intake \-- therefore, diet soda intake and dementia
are linked only through their common root cause, diabetes

------
placeybordeaux
The technique that the researches performed is really suspect, however simply
saying that they ran 100 tests neglects the fact the the only statistically
significant results were found in the same grouping (artificially sweetened
drinks & stroke).

Questioning the research is great, and pointing out that they used a scatter
gun approach is totally valid, but I feel like the author lost a lot of
position when they said:

"There’s only one small snag in this story; it isn’t true. Diet drinks aren’t
that bad for you at all."

That's completely unsubstantiated. You've pointed out some potential problems,
but not brought it home.

~~~
hueving
The onus for evidence is on people making the claim that diet drinks are bad
for you.

Until there is some proof of that, it's safe to say that there is no evidence
that diet drinks cause bad effects.

~~~
placeybordeaux
The claim that diet drinks aren't bad for you w.r.t. stroke appears to be as
unproved as the claim that diet drinks are bad for you w.r.t. stroke.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

------
apatters
It took me a long time to realize that most of the media's science reporting
is scaremongering BS, and I know people who have gone their whole lives
without realizing it.

It's stuff like this which makes me wonder if we really need the media in its
current form. I'm inclined to say no and that's why I have no qualms about
using an ad blocker. Maybe society would be better off if we just funded
whatever shreds of that dinosaur industry are still valuable directly -- Glenn
Greenwald could surely make a fine living with a Patreon account. Outside of
very specific cases I would prefer my media outlet to be an aggregator of
primary sources, perhaps with summaries. I do not want the mainstream press to
publish any more bad science articles.

------
tabeth
funny how there's so much controversy to whether or not diet-poison is a lot
worse than poison. fact is, virtually all beverages you can drink, except tea
(barring a few variants) and a few types of black coffee are significantly
worse than water.

drink water. trust me, i get it, sugar is good. but really, just drink water.
your health will thank me.

~~~
copperx
I get it. I know it. The kidneys rejoice when they get a stream of water. But
I can't stand drinking just plain water all day; I need a strong flavor: soda,
lemonade, Crystal Light, tea, coffee, beer, anything but tasteless water.

What can I do? force myself to avoid all of that? perhaps. I've tried but I
always go back to flavored drinks.

~~~
nol13
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZmSeBI6Bp4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZmSeBI6Bp4)

------
lngnmn
Crappy food produced for sale and quick profit.

To paraphrase - Processed Crap Is Killing You.

