
Anthony Bourdain and the ‘Silent Epidemic of Male Suicide’ - uberdru
http://www.grubstreet.com/2018/06/anthony-bourdain-and-the-silent-epidemic-of-male-suicide.html
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aaavl2821
Suicide is the 10th leading cause of death in the US and causes more deaths
than breast cancer (45K vs 40K) and over 6x deaths from HIV (~7K). 90% of
suicides are related to mental illness.

It also takes younger lives than other disease. When combined with deaths due
to "poisoning" (generally due to heroin / opioid overdose), suicide +
poisoning cause more lost years of life before age 75 than any other major
disease reported by the CDC [1]

Imagine how many more people have attempted or considered suicide, and how
depressed these people are, and how much lost productivity is and unhappiness
is involved in this

Really tragic how little attention is paid to this

[1]
[https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus16.pdf](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus16.pdf)

~~~
finnthehuman
>Really tragic how little attention is paid to this

Meh. I’d rather have the silence when the alternate is repeating useless memes
at eachother and thinking it’s more productive than the silence.

Suicide is like mass shootings in one way... the media and popular
conversation are only equipped to make the problem worse.

~~~
lostctown
I agree and disagree. We should devote more total resources to the issue, but
maybe not through media? I believe the government has 2 primary
responsibilities: applying cost to externalities, and keeping it's
constituents healthy. Everything else should be second class. If our (the US)
nation's priorities were more than a half-baked set of corporate agendas we
might actually have such a government.

It's catch 22. We need people to care about this, but shoving it down our
throats on primetime tv isn't a productive way to accomplish this.

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DoreenMichele
This is a really difficult and emotional subject that will hit a nerve for a
lot of people. I'm a woman and I am quite open about having attempted suicide
in my teens and about ongoing struggles with being prone to being suicidal,
though I don't really suffer depression. I don't think I'm really the right
person to try to lead this discussion about male suicide, at least not today,
not now.

But I will ask that people try to say something substantive, per HN
guidelines. It's a hard subject that can easily go sideways and frequently
does. That doesn't mean it has to.

I don't think it is really helpful to implore people to "get help" while
making it clear you don't really want to talk about it in earnest here and
now. Having spent a lot of time suicidal, my view is that "Well, yeah, sure.
Everyone would like me to get better and most people don't want to deal with
it. That feels to me like a very dismissive _not my problem, go get your
broken self fixed, but don 't bother me with it_ kind of position."

I really rather dislike seeing comments of that sort.

~~~
kjeetgill
I agree with you. Sincere interest in a persons situation can't be replaced by
an anonymous phone call. It is hard though, I think the reflex to "implore
people to get help" doesn't come from a place of "not my problem" but rather
"I'm not a professional I don't know what you should do, but I suspect here's
someone who might."

Like you, I was fairly open, well before and after, about thoughts of and
attempts at suicide. I was very fortunate. I had a great network of people in
my life who were always there for me in every capacity. But even though they
were there for me, they simply couldn't really relate. It wasn't until nearly
eight or nine years later that they found themselves similarly ensnared. There
was an "Aha" moment where they (unfortunately) connected the dots. I was stuck
for as long as I could remember (think elementary school) and just three years
free from it I have trouble relating to the feeling anymore.

To anyone out there trying to help somebody: don't be afraid of being unable
to understand or relate. If you can, just be there. _Trying_ to relate or
_caring_ to be present is 80% of the game. A hotline can't replace that.

Fun story:

The one time I called a hotline, I was in a particularly acute spiral. I don't
know know if this was on purpose but the sheer awkwardness of that
conversation probably saved my life. Hearing myself try to explain my the
situation and it just coming out of my mouth like bad, angsty, incoherent
teenage poetry. On the other end of the line was a person who genuinely
sounded like they wanted to help but couldn't make sense of why I was so
worked up but tried so hard to understand. I think I hung up mumbling "You
know what, never mind." and hung up cringing.

~~~
DoreenMichele
I'm aware it typically doesn't come from a place of "not my problem." It
usually is well meaning. But it tends to be counterproductive.

My two adult sons live with me. When I'm seriously suicidal in a way that
could genuinely lead to my death, they don't leave me alone. We arrange things
such that one of them stays with me at all times.

Most suicides happen while alone. Just physically being there serves as a
deterrent.

My medical condition is a large factor in my suicidal tendencies. So they do
two things for me when I'm suicidal:

1\. They take physical care of me.

2\. They refuse to engage overly much with the crazy stuff because they know
that it is essentially a medical side effect and the cure for that part of it
is time and physical care.

And I'm trying to make conversation and generally agree with some of your
points. I have no idea how well I'm succeeding. I'm just very tired today.

------
pjc50
It's a difficult subject. I've lost one close friend to suicide, and one
acquaintance; I know a huge swathe of people who've suffered from depression
and achieved varying levels of help for it.

From the comments in this thread already I don't think HN is really equipped
to handle the conversation. I would say not only that if you're struggling,
you should reach out, but that people should "reach in" more and check in on
their friends, especially those who seem to be suffering in silence.

~~~
aaavl2821
I think the "reach in" comment is really important. But I feel like its hard
to be aware that this is something people should do, or which friends need
attention, or how to broach such a sensitive topic.

I know that FB, apple, google can detect suicidal thoughts with some
reasonable level of accuracy and that some of the leaders felt obliged to do
something, but not sure what came of it? Seemed like it was mostly for acute
situations rather than people at risk who could be helped by a periodic check
in. Would be cool if these companies could somehow non invasively encourage
ppl close to someone at risk to check on them

Also think that primary care is in a decent position to handle monitoring of
potential suicidality, although the PCPs ive talked to are incredibly scared
of liability concerns related to this...

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uberdru
"At present, men account for 80 percent of all suicides." Yet, "There’s more
funding on research into women’s mental health and the suicidality of women
and in young people."

~~~
sp332
Women attempt suicide more often than men, as far as anyone can tell.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide#...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide#Differing_methods_by_gender)

Edit: removed "far more"

~~~
rgbrenner
Edit: Ok... I'm just adding some numbers to the parent post because there
werent any in the wikipedia link. From the downvotes.. apparently data isn't
welcome.

~~~
cup-of-tea
_Reported_ being a very important word here.

~~~
eurticket
is there a way to estimate unreported cases from end result, actual deaths?

------
louhong
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline Call 1-800-273-8255

Putting this here in the event anyone needs it.

~~~
FireBeyond
One thing that struck a nerve with me. If you watch Season 11 of Parts
Unknown, you can definitely see a man who is at times struggling with himself
and who he is, blatantly, openly so at points.

For all the episodes where he is having a ball, it definitely paints a
contrast, and a tragic one at that.

His return to Borneo was rather profound, for me. He seemed to be battling
demons, be it substance or other.

~~~
kjeetgill
I've never seen the show, is there a clip you can point me to? I'm curious how
apparent it was.

~~~
FireBeyond
This is a couple of years old, visiting Borneo for the second time, but I
think shows it perfectly, particularly his comments on slaughtering a pig with
a spear (with accompanying, though censored, visuals):

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vum1F3BFkk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vum1F3BFkk)

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Shorel
In my opinion it is very disingenuous to talk about suicide and ignore the
medications these people were taking.

In many cases the medications have been reported to be correlated with a
strong increase of suicidal tendencies when interrupted abruptly or without
warning.

This is the case for some prescribed anxiolytics, and also for the drug
Bourdain was allegedly taking to combat his tobacco addiction.

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notadoc
Why are 80% of suicides men?

Is this a gender issue?

Is this a gender equality issue?

~~~
daxorid
edit: You've all made my point for me. Comment removed, Kommissar.

~~~
wilsonnb2
According to my quick look at wikipedia, consensus seems to be that men choose
more lethal means of suicide than women.

Women tend to choose things like drug overdoses or wrist cutting, while men
tend to choose things like hanging or firearms.

Women apparently attempt suicide more.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide#...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide#Differing_methods_by_gender)

~~~
notadoc
Men are more "successful" at suicide, whereas women tend to "fail" more at
suicide.

Interestingly, the suicide attempts are often categorized as a call for help,
as specifically stated by the attempters themselves.

[https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/...](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/205075)

> Of the attempters, 39.3% (3.5) endorsed the statement that they made a
> serious attempt, and it was only because of luck that they did not die;
> while 13.3% (2.1) endorsed the statement that they were serious, but knew
> the method was not foolproof; and __the remaining 47.3% (3.9) endorsed the
> statement that their attempt was a cry for help, and they did not want to
> die __.

It makes you wonder, why the gender discrepancy? Is this cultural? Social? Are
women simply better at asking for help than men? Are men simply more stubborn
than women?

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davvolun
Tangential...

I'm still not ready to accept incels as people essentially needing assistance,
but: [https://www.vox.com/2018/6/20/17314846/incel-support-
group-t...](https://www.vox.com/2018/6/20/17314846/incel-support-group-
therapy-black-pill-mental-health)

I mean, if you react to depression with misogyny and by lashing out at women,
I find it hard to pull up compassion for you, but at the same time, is this
because our society is failing to _treat depression_ or emotional damage
properly ("getting sex for incels," via prostitution or whatever, is a
complete non-starter -- the very last thing we need in our society is _more_
impetus on women to just close your eyes and "do it")?

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raven105x
It took the death of someone catering to diversity, women and minorities to
even bring this subject into any measure of media spotlight.

When you classify issues into "trendy" and "real", the disproportionate focus
distribution between the two reveals a key metric of society.

~~~
pjc50
> focused on catering

I don't think I'd describe a popular food writer as "focused on catering"!

