
Technichi: Macbook Subscription Service - charlieirish
http://www.technichi.com/
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nickconfer
This seems like a difficult business to execute on.

1) You need capital to buy the machines to give out and slowly collect $60 on.
Once the capital runs out, more is needed, but without getting capital quick
enough, new customers have to be turned down, growth slows, and capital
becomes even more difficult to acquire.

2) Since the tech and product can be easily purchased by anyone, there is room
for other businesses to enter the space quickly and drive a pricing war. If
large chains got involved they could offer a lower price and push local same
day service.

3) Machines break. Without a hassle-free return / warranty, customers will
likely get frustrated, refuse to pay, and make collections very difficult.

Not to say it can't be done, the leasing industry is fairly large, but I'd
thought I'd share my thoughts on the problems that might arise. Reminds me of
when they did PCs for 19.95 a month plus internet for a contract term.

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dman
In your opinion what is the difference between leasing a computer and leasing
a car?

~~~
al2o3cr
Off the cuff, cars cost 10x as much and aren't obsoleted by better cars that
drive 3x as fast after two years...

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silverlake
Nor do laptops anymore.

~~~
dragontamer
A $300 Dell Venue 8 Pro Intel Atom _tablet_ is faster than a Macbook Pro of 4
years ago.

[http://www.anandtech.com/show/7263/intel-teases-baytrail-
per...](http://www.anandtech.com/show/7263/intel-teases-baytrail-performance-
with-atom-z3770-cinebench-score)

~~~
sscalia
Doesn't matter. Does Photoshop feel measurably faster on a 4 year old Macbook
Pro vs. a new one? Does email? Does web browsing?

Minus some spergy cases (PC gaming, 3d rendering, virtualization, etc) most
computers are just fine for everyday tasks for a long while.

~~~
dragontamer
Then get the $300 Asus Vivotab Note, instead of spending $60/month on a lease
on a new laptop. Within 6 months, you'll have made your money back and then
some (Especially since the $300 tablet can do everything a 4-year-old computer
can do, while having superior battery life, significantly less weight, support
of a Wacom Active Stylus and a touchscreen)

Yes, I have run Photoshop and Gimp on a $300 Baytrail Tablet. Yes, they work.
I can _personally_ verify that fact. On the other hand, I do notice
significant performance increases when comparing these cheap, tiny computers
against my beefy Desktop. Regardless, I speak from experience.

Benchmarks do not lie however, these $300 Baytrail tablets are faster than
Macbook Pros from 4 years ago.

Regardless of how you slice it, computers depreciate significantly faster than
cars. For those where "just enough" performance is good enough, you might as
well buy these modern $300 netbooks / tablets than lease a top-of-the-line
laptop for $60/month... unless you really throw away your laptops after less
than 5 months of usage.

A brand new cheap computer is better than a top-of-the-line computer from 4
years ago. And for those who are chasing the top end, modern premium computers
are released too often for this lease business model to make sense IMO.

~~~
auctiontheory
_Regardless of how you slice it, computers depreciate significantly faster
than cars._

Actually an MBP [1] holds its value better than many Detroit products[2].

[1] See eBay. [2] [http://www.forbes.com/2010/10/27/cars-resale-value-
lifestyle...](http://www.forbes.com/2010/10/27/cars-resale-value-lifestyle-
vehicles-depreciation-residual-used.html)

~~~
dragontamer
I'm thinking of the typical car vs the typical computer.

>> New cars typically lose about 20% of their value the moment they’re driven
off the lot, and about 65% after five years.

MBPs are one of the few computers that hold their value the best. But after 5
years, you're looking at a depreciation rate of 75%+ (going from $2000+ in
2009 to only $500 in 2014).

But we're looking at the _best_ computer that holds its value the best. No one
gives a damn about a refurbished Dell Inspiron from 2010.

www.sears.com/dell-refurbished-dell-latitude-e6400-14inch-notebook-intel/

You're looking at ~90% depreciation for the more typical laptop, and maybe 70%
if you focus only on Macbooks. With Cars, you're looking at 65% typical
depreciation, with only ~45% if you focus on Camrys or Corolas.

A 2009 Camry will run you ~12k today, only 45% depreciation.

~~~
auctiontheory
Did you read the article? These guys are leasing MBPs, not Dell Inspirons.
Your MBP depreciation numbers ($2000->$500 in 5 years) are also wrong.

~~~
dragontamer
[http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-13-Inch-Macbook-
Pro-2009-4GB-2...](http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-13-Inch-Macbook-
Pro-2009-4GB-256GB-Maverick-OS-Mac-Office-Please-
Read-/191122794950?pt=Apple_Laptops&hash=item2c7fce69c6)

You're right. Macbook Pros depreciate down to $400, (if you have $100 office
tacked on). I guess its closer to $2000->$300 in 5 years.

Without Office... it looks like the Macbook Pro depreciates to $175.

[http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-MacBook-Pro-13-3-Laptop-
MB990L...](http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-MacBook-Pro-13-3-Laptop-MB990LL-A-
June-2009-/221402884746?pt=Apple_Laptops&hash=item338ca3ea8a)

Not looking good for a laptop that 5-years ago costed $2000.

Realistically, I'm seeing $500 on certain EBay deals, but really its anywhere
between $175 to $500.

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zrail
Apple itself has a Macbook "subscription service", actually. It's called a
"Fair Market Value lease" and works basically like a car lease.

[http://store.apple.com/us_smb_78313/browse/finance/lease](http://store.apple.com/us_smb_78313/browse/finance/lease)

~~~
malbiniak
The devil will be in the details. The Apple lease program to me isn't
interesting because a) the minimum lease term is 24 months and b) the minimum
order is $3,000.

If I have an option to subscribe on 6-12 month terms and upgrade my machine on
each release cycle, that'd be really interesting.

~~~
tomkarlo
You'll pay for a shorter lease term with a much higher monthly payment.
Depreciation isn't linear; both a car and a computer will lose value much
faster during the first 6 months than during the second 6 months (much less
months 12-18.) So if you lease for say, 6 months rather than 24, the rate has
to reflect that higher depreciation (plus the risk and cost associated with
reselling the item at the end of the lease, spread over a much smaller number
of periods.) I could easily see it costing double the rate Apple charges for a
24 month lease to rent for 6 months.

Example: $2000 machine that depreciates to $1500 after 6 months, 1200 after 12
months, $800 after 24 (keep in mind much of the value loss happens when you
"drive it off the lot" and turn it from new into used). $100 overhead on
accepting the return, cleaning it up and reselling it to extract that value. 6
mo lease: ($2000 - $1500 + $100) / 6 mo = $100/mo 12 mo lease: ($2000 - $1200
+ $100) / 12 mo = $66/mo 24 mo lease: ($2000 - $800 + $100) / 24 mo = $50/mo

(Yes, I"m ignoring interest here. But rates are low.)

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jareds
Am I the only one who thought April fools? I could actually see this being
useful if I was considering buying a new Mac as a way to test out different
models for an extended period of time assuming I could get a one month lease.

~~~
bsima
I thought april fools also, but I'm really hoping it's true. My 4-year-old MBP
has finally been outpaced by software speed needs.

~~~
auctiontheory
I occasionally wonder whether to replace my 2009 MBP (upgraded to SSD and 8GB,
naturally). What software finally vanquished your laptop?

~~~
bsima
Honestly Chrome is the worst. I'll have 10-12 tabs open (including apps like
Asana and Gmail, plus a few extensions) and it takes a while to switch tabs,
especially when I'm also doing development work, with Atom open, a few iTerm
tabs, Activity Monitor, Finder windows, Messenger, Telegram, and Mail. Add a
few daemons for servers or databases running in the background it just locks
my system up.

Plus I work with data sets, and my HDD is filling up fast...

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zecho
This page really needs to specify the length of the term, otherwise something
like $60/month is pretty meaningless when trying to figure out if something
like this would be worth the cost of convenience.

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aaronbrethorst
I _really_ hope this is real. There have been a couple of occasions where I've
been waiting for a 'big leap' in Apple's annual hardware refresh, but
circumstances have dictated that I need a new computer right now[1]. Being
able to simply rent a laptop for a couple months would be killer.

[1] Specifically what's happened to me in the past is that I left a job and
had to return my work laptop, and in another instance someone dropped a pint
of beer onto my laptop.

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danpalmer
This could be great for businesses. To pay $60 for a machine for 2 years (for
example) means a total cost of $1440. If this service includes something like
an 'instant repair', i.e. they just send you a new one and take care of
repairs, so that you aren't ever without a machine, it could be worth the
slightly higher cost. Also, most companies will want upgrades/replacements
every 2 years anyway, so this way they get that, don't need to worry about
what to do with an old machine, which they probably wouldn't sell anyway.

~~~
dwild
"zrail" said in a comment that Apple already give that sort of offer to
businesses:
[http://store.apple.com/us_smb_78313/browse/finance/lease](http://store.apple.com/us_smb_78313/browse/finance/lease)

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Nk26
I goto school with a lot of people who would jump all over this. If the credit
requirement's aren't crazy and students could easily get approved, this could
be a game changer. I'm assuming it's going to be a 1 or 2 year term and they
are relying on the high resale value once you send it back to profit or re
rent the old systems for a lower price.

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adamnemecek
For everyone in this thread: I'm pretty sure it's a joke.

~~~
chrisrhoden
[https://twitter.com/TechnichiLLC](https://twitter.com/TechnichiLLC)

It's real.

~~~
adamnemecek
All tweets are from today. How does that prove anything?

~~~
chrisrhoden
I guess that I just assume that people are quick to congratulate themselves on
a joke well pulled.

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techwatching
Whats the advantage over financing such a purchase through any of the other
number of means available?

~~~
philmcc
First Guess: Doesn't show up on your credit (or require great credit)

Second Guess: There are different tax ramifications for renting something than
there are for purchasing/financing.

When you purchase a computer I think you can only write of a certain amount
(maybe depreciation?) as a business expense, whereas this entire $60/mo is a
business expense.

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bertil
This service has been existing in Europe for a while. It’s not nearly as
polished, though.

Yes, it requires a initial investment, but with a big insurance (fraud is
rampant and breakage astounding) a bank would be happy to pay against easily
re-sold inventory.

The key differentiating factor is the minimum rental time: you can offer any
period, but One-day rentals require a different logistic than a year.

I would personally love to see a meaningful One-week option because my MBAir
needs new batteries, and I can’t imagine stepping away from it more than a
day. If Apple could afford that through its Official Repair Partner, I’d be a
happy man.

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tomkarlo
Here's a question: when you return the computer, will they review its
condition for damage / mileage, the way a car dealer would for a lease return?
And if not, what's the incentive to take care of it?

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cschmidt
I hope that they offer next day replacement machines. As it is now, when my
laptop dies, I go to the Apple store, they say it will take a week to repair
so I buy a new one on the spot. I later get the old one fixed and give it to
my son as a hand-me-down. I've done that twice now, but it isn't the most
predictable way to always have a Macbook.

It would be kind of cool to be able to get a replacement machine by FedEx the
next day, and stay current on my hardware. (They tend to last a bit longer
than 2 years).

~~~
edraferi
That would be especially compelling if they integrated backups as well. You
get _your_ laptop back, including all the data from the last full-disk backup.

Of course, security. Perhaps encrypt the drives by default, then backup
snapshots of the encrypted data? Then you get the benefit of the backup
without the privacy hole.

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crawdog
What about cases of loss/theft? Is there a deposit?

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mehrdada
I call April fools: none of the models they advertise support the "upgrade" to
1TB magnetic hard drive, which they list in optional upgrades. When was the
last time you saw a magnetic hard drive with PCI Express interface? :-)

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steele
rent-a-center business model hits startup land

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ladiesman217
Just heard of a MacBook rental company Livyy from Khoi Vinh. Looking for
something more my price range and came across Technichi. Love the price and
the idea, but, are any of you fearful this might still be a joke?

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callesgg
Would one get new stuff when the old gets outdated? If yes, what would you do
with the old hardware? Who want's the old stuff then? If not, is there any
point other than your support for the consumer?

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ewang1
No Macbook Air?

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killion
Very interesting service, given that MacBooks have such high resale value it
may work out for them.

I do hope they offer the high-end 15" Retina config even though it is not
mentioned on the homepage.

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rebelidealist
This would be really useful if you macbook is being repaired.

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joshjdr
Why not just use a credit card if you want to pay over time?

~~~
Karunamon
Low credit limit? Credit's not that great? Incremental hardware upgrades?
(60/month for a year is $720 and I can upgrade to the latest and greatest
machine for the same price)

~~~
joshjdr
Nothing to argue with there. I was primarily pointing out that this company is
addressing a problem that doesn't really exist in the first place. Financing
for consumer purchases is readily available, and if you have bad credit you
probably shouldn't be leasing a Mac for "less than your monthly cell phone
bill" (nor should you likely have a cell phone bill over $60 per month...)

~~~
Karunamon
>if you have bad credit you probably shouldn't be leasing a Mac for "less than
your monthly cell phone bill" (nor should you likely have a cell phone bill
over $60 per month...)

That doesn't necessarily follow.

This is actually the boat I'm in right now. Medical bills + no real work for
1.5 years = Credit history is garbage for at least 4 more years until it falls
off my report. Sure, it's paid off now, and the report reflects that, but the
people and algorithms who just look at the number don't know and don't care
how or why.

Practically, I could either stack up the roughly $1500 necessary to outright
buy a machine and have only AppleCare, or I could just pay $60/month and have
a fully covered machine that's functionally immune to both breakage and
hardware updates.

(Or I could pay $200 a month to a sketchy "we rent to people with shit credit"
outfit and gain all of the headache with none of the benefit)

I know which particular equation I like more...

Aside, People really need to stop basing assumptions of people's behavior on
their credit score, and that goes double with the economic downturn of the
past few years.

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akerl_
Do I automatically trade it in for a new model when it comes out, or would I
have to pay more?

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warrenmcwin
is "How about them Apples" not enough of a clue that this is a joke?

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erikj
Is it going to work outside United States?

~~~
northernmonkey
If the cost remains the same then it'll probably do really well.

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veritas20
maybe a good option for start ups until they prove out their business model
and start to make money

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yjv
subscribed for beta.

a heads up: your glyph-icons are broken in firefox.

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Aloha
I like this!

Laptop as a service :-D

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te_chris
Congratulations, you've disrupted leasing by starting a leasing company.

