
Lyft donates $1M to the ACLU, condemns Trump’s immigration actions - vthallam
https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/29/lyft-donates-1m-to-the-aclu-condemns-trumps-immigration-actions/
======
Pfhreak
Uber undermining the taxi strike [1] yesterday was pretty visible -- at least
in my social circle here in Seattle -- and when Lyft made this announcement we
all deleted our Uber accounts.

Will that have a material impact on anyone's bottom line? Who knows, but I'd
love to see the graphs for new account signups/account deletions.

[1] Taxis were not servicing JFK in support of those who were being detained
there.

~~~
inverse_pi
I don't get it. How about other people that were not part of the protest and
were trying to get home/get to the airport? How about the Uber drivers trying
to make a living? Just because they were not part of your protest you'll give
them hate?

~~~
kungfooguru
Yes, it undermines the strike. Strikes are supposed to disrupt.

~~~
benchaney
Strikes are intended to disrupt. They are not entitled to disrupt. There is a
huge difference.

~~~
pikzen
In most professions, there's a feeling of unity. Taxi companies and drivers
will either stand with striking drivers, or be respectful enough to not
disrupt their action.

Then comes Uber, the vulture that swoops in all in the name of disrupting the
market. They're allowed to do it, sure. Whether it's morally right is another
thing.

~~~
benchaney
It is definitely morally right. Calling Uber a vulture ignores the reality
that the world doesn't stop just because some protesters are unhappy.

~~~
eropple
"Some protestors are unhappy" is a really interesting way of phrasing "the
federal government is embarking on a concerted attack on 1.7% of the
population for reasons at best murky."

Be better, please.

~~~
benchaney
Come on. Trump is doing lots of bad things, but if he weren't people would
still be striking. The largest protest in American history happened before he
even took office. Let's not pretend that people's emotions are less of a
driving factor than the facts. Get over yourself.

~~~
couchand
Or maybe you should "get over yourself". If you care so much for the facts
perhaps you should make sure to get them right. I suppose you're referring to
the Women's March, which took place the day after Trump assumed office.

And it's remarkable if your claim is that without Trump's Muslim Ban there
would still be protests at JFK this weekend. Are you really arguing that?

~~~
benchaney
It is interesting that you say that, because I read about that protest in the
Friday paper (from the 20th). The paper of course became available many hours
before Trump was sworn in. Stop pretending that it was a reaction to anything
he did in office.

I don't know exactly how different protests would have played out if Trump
took different actions in office, but it is overwhelmingly obvious that the
protests are the result of emotion, not facts.

Also, you seem to be confused about the phrase "get over yourself" means. It
targets self importance such as "be better please", it makes no sense
whatsoever as a response to my comment.

~~~
couchand
That's a skillful evasion of facts you just executed, going from your previous
claim that the protest occurred before the inauguration to just that it was
planned before then. Well played.

Your dubious claim about the motivations of large groups of individuals is not
at all "overwhelmingly obvious."

Get over yourself.

~~~
benchaney
Is it an evasion of facts to focus on facts that are relevant? If a protest
was planned before Trump took office, that logically excludes actions taken by
Trump as motivation for the protest. That is "overwhelmingly obvious" to
anyone who isn't confused by the concept of causality.

~~~
couchand
I don't think anyone claimed that the Women's March wasn't planned before
January 20th, that would be absurd. However it was still clearly a reaction to
Trump's words and actions, and that doesn't require him being a sitting
president first.

But it's worth noting the difference between that protest and the one at JFK,
which I think it's pretty clear was a direct reaction to a specific policy
created by President Trump. Using the Women's March as some sort of catch-all
"haters gonna hate" dismissal of the valid concerns that many Americans have
about the sitting president's actions is, to put it simply, a remarkable
argument.

~~~
benchaney
I never used the women's march as a "hater's gonna hate" dismissal. I never
even dismissed the concerns of protesters. My point was that protests are
based on emotion. I only felt that need to make that point because eropple
took some weird offense to me saying that the cause of protests was people
being unhappy. It is fine with me if you want to defend him, but don't pretend
that context doesn't exist.

~~~
eropple
I took offense to your cavalier dismissal of _some real shit_ as "being
unhappy". You trivialized it, and you knew what you were doing, and it was
lousy behavior. And you shouldn't do that and you should be better.

------
zerdmann
I think instead of commending Lyft for what could be seen as marketing (they
also did not stand in solidarity with the JFK strike, we should be discussing
ways that ride-sharing technology can be used to support unionized drivers. I
admittedly don't know much about the details, but apps like Curb
[http://gocurb.com/](http://gocurb.com/) at least claim to be working with
licensed cabbies. I'd love more information on alternatives to the big ride-
sharing apps that are more overtly focused on workers rights, instead of
calling a fleet of contractors "disruptive."

------
israeli77
Lyft operates in Malaysia, where Israelis are banned from entering unless they
get a letter of approval from the Ministry of Home Affairs, which is nearly
impossible for the average Israeli. I'm curious if Lyft has any qualms about
operating in Malaysia? I understand their disgust with Trump's action but I do
hope they're consistent with their views.

~~~
throwawaybeta
To clarify, lyft does not operate outside of the states. They partner with
Grab and DiDi.

For lyft to stay consistent with their views, they'd have to cease partnership
with Grab. With the claimed $1MM donation they paint a positive picture for
us(fellow HN users reactions show they are more likely to use lyft, lyft will
thus earn off us), but it would simply be loss of potential revenue in the
case of Malaysia.

~~~
jy1
Try placing your lyft pin in Kuala Lumpur airport.

~~~
throwawaybeta
That is the result of their partnership[0]. IMO, partnering with already
established services is much safer than what Uber did.

[0][http://take.lyft.com/global/](http://take.lyft.com/global/)

------
koolba
Why is a company that is losing money and having what's left of their lunch
taken by a gorilla of a competitor (Uber) throwing away $1M like this? If I
were an investor in Lyft I'd sue them.

~~~
ajamesm
$1M just got them the best PR campaign they could have hoped for.

~~~
rapsey
By pissing off half the country?

~~~
nilkn
Keep in mind that the American election system is such that only 20% of
Americans (or 30% of eligible voters) voted for Trump in order to get him into
office. So it really does not follow that a move against Trump would anger
half the country. Trump famously lost the popular vote as well, and he has one
of the lowest approval ratings on entering office of any President in modern
history.

Finally, who's more likely to use Lyft? Trump's support base is shockingly
hard to truly pin down, but certainly a lot of his base resides in rural
areas, not cities -- areas where Lyft (and Uber) may not even operate or, if
they do, the volume of rides is far, far lower. My impression, in fact, is
that there's almost an inverse correlation between number of heavy Uber/Lyft
users and Trump support in the area -- it'd be interesting to see someone
actually try to verify/debunk that impression with real data.

~~~
pfarnsworth
Using your math/logic, what percentage of Americans voted for Obama?

~~~
mschuster91
Per [http://bipartisanpolicy.org/library/2012-voter-
turnout/](http://bipartisanpolicy.org/library/2012-voter-turnout/) in 2008
there voted 62.3% of eligible voters in total; Obama won with 52.92% of this
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_history_of_Barack_Ob...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_history_of_Barack_Obama)),
that makes 32.96% of all eligible voters.

In 2012, turnout was 57.5%, of which Obama won 51.06%. That makes 29.36% of
all eligible voters.

The problem is that it's really, really hard to get numbers on the question
"how many people did not register themselves for voting rights, even if they
could legally have done so?".

~~~
dragonwriter
You can usually get stats on turnout as both % of registered voters and % of
voting age population. Neither of those is exactly % of legally-eligible
population, but together they bracket it.

------
calciphus
Does anyone have a reliable source that Lyft was still operating at JFK during
the protest? I can't honestly figure out if they were or not.

No horse in this race, just seen it reported both ways, trying to figure it
out.

------
nojvek
I really really like Lyft. It seems Trevis is kind of a scumbag, kind of like
Trump in a way who wants to win at any cost and has little sympathy for people
in his way.

Hearing employees at Uber crying, drivers getting scammed into leases,
terrible customer support. I'm glad I didn't accept the offer.

------
sontek
I'm surprised everyone is jumping on Lyft even though Thiel is a major
investor in Lyft and a huge supporter of Trump.

I think it'd make most sense to avoid both services if you are concerned about
the recent immigration ban.

~~~
astronautjones
Lots of boycotts are of the moment - like if I applied my politics and
boycotted equivocally I couldn't buy gasoline or pay my utilities or work for
my employer. When one breaks out (esp in a competitive market), it's easy to
decide to join in (with fervor). It's always been that way.

------
facetube
Donald Trump is being powered by conspiracy theorist Steve Bannon, the
"Breitbart News" head and board member of Cambridge Analytica, an analytics
firm that used psychological profiling to cynically exploit the American
electorate. Despite his inexperience and stated desire to "blow things up", he
was appointed to an influential national security position, over the Joint
Chiefs of Staff [1]. This is an existential threat to the American public and
to the world.

1: [http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-
canada-38787241](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38787241)

2:
[http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/cambridge-a...](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/cambridge-
analytica-steve-bannon-robert-rebekah-mercer-donald-trump-conflicts-of-
interest-white-a7435536.html)

3: [http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/the-british-data-
cruncher...](http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/the-british-data-crunchers-
who-say-they-helped-donald-trump-to-win/)

4:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Analytica](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Analytica)

~~~
colordrops
Please don't use the phrase "conspiracy theorist" as a term of disparagement
or to indicate a particular bias. There are many that investigate conspiracies
who have the opposite views of Bannon and are very skeptical and scientific.

You are giving a tool to the unscrupulous to bury conversations by labeling
their opponents "conspiracy theorists."

Would you say Edward Snowden is in the same bucket at Bannon?

~~~
smpetrey
What phrase would be more effective in describing Bannon?

~~~
AnOscelot
neo-nazi Leninist

The former term is how his detractors, including me, would describe him. The
latter is a term he famously used for himself.

[http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/22/steve-
banno...](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/22/steve-bannon-trump-
s-top-guy-told-me-he-was-a-leninist.html)

~~~
GFK_of_xmaspast
That's not what Leninism means tho (it's not "smash the state" as Bannon says,
it's about having a vanguard party and control of political power by the
working class).

~~~
AnOscelot
I completely understand that. But it's a term he used for himself, and I think
it's funny to semi-accurately (not in terms of actual definition but in terms
of someone's self-description) label a member of a Republican administration
as a Leninist.

Though Bannon may be more accurate than he realizes about being a "Leninist"
since he wants his faction to be the vanguard party with power derived from
the white working class and voters who identify with such.

~~~
pfarnsworth
I think Bannon is an asshole and I wish he didn't have such a close position
to the President. The only saving grace is that Trump is so arrogant, I don't
think he will follow anything Bannon says that he already doesn't believe.

But since when is he a neo-nazi? Breitbart.com is about as pro-Israel as you
can get, and Breitbart himself was a Jew. Trump's daughter Ivanka is also a
Jew, as is her husband, who is now another special advisor.

~~~
AnOscelot
There's evidence Bannon has been the chief author behind some of the recent
executive orders. Especially the immigration order. Trump is arrogant but he's
very easily influenced. And I'm not convinced he even understands what he is
signing.

His antisemitism has been well documented. How he gets along with Kushner and
Ivanka, I have no idea. I suspect they don't get along at all. There will
plenty of books on Trump's Team of Rivals, though probably much less glowing
than for Lincoln's similar team.

One reference for Bannon's antisemitism:
[http://www.timesofisrael.com/stephen-bannon-5-things-jews-
ne...](http://www.timesofisrael.com/stephen-bannon-5-things-jews-need-to-
know/)

Speaking of which: I also wouldn't be surprised if Bannon is behind Trump's
recent Holocaust statement in which Jews aren't mentioned at all.

~~~
pfarnsworth
Evidence? Trump pledged all of those since the beginning, before Bannon was
involved in his campaign. "Easily influenced?" You're making shit up now. I've
never seen anyone so ridiculous stubborn in such a position of power. Any
evidence he's "easily influenced" besides your opinions? He hasn't even given
up his Twitter account for God's sake and he doesn't listen to any of his
advisors to shut up, except for the day before the election.

> How he gets along with Kushner and Ivanka, I have no idea.

The obvious answer is that he's not anti-Semitic.

You can try to make up stuff, or pull one off references from divorce
proceedings, but he was head of a strongly Pro-Israel website, created by a
Jew. If he's anti-Semitic, he's a failure. He's working for a president that
obviously supports and loves Jews, since his daughter converted to Judaism
without any issue from him, and his Jewish son-in-law is his top adviser.

If you think he's some Othellian figure that can endure working for so many
Jews and espousing Jewish values, all for the chance to whisper one-or-two
white nationalist policies into Trumps brain, you're absolutely crazy. Okkam's
razor, dude. The simplest answer is that you're wrong and he's not anti-
semitic.

~~~
AnOscelot
The ADL disagrees with you regarding Bannon.

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-
faith/wp/2016/11...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-
faith/wp/2016/11/15/anti-defamation-league-decries-stephen-bannon-while-other-
jewish-groups-stay-silent/?utm_term=.83f5323cd31f)

As for who wrote the executive orders:

" Inside the West Wing, it is almost impossible for some aides to know what is
in the executive orders, staffers say. They have been written by Stephen
Miller, Trump’s senior White House adviser for policy, and Steve Bannon,
Trump’s chief strategist, according to people familiar with the matter. Ideas
for some of the Trump executive orders came from transition officials and so-
called “landing teams,” " \--[http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/trumps-
flashy-executiv...](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/trumps-flashy-
executive-actions-could-run-aground-234200)

How can someone be pro-Israel and antisemitic?

[https://theintercept.com/2016/11/16/steve-bannon-made-
breitb...](https://theintercept.com/2016/11/16/steve-bannon-made-breitbart-
space-pro-israel-writers-anti-semitic-readers/)

[http://forward.com/news/israel/354402/how-steve-bannon-
and-b...](http://forward.com/news/israel/354402/how-steve-bannon-and-
breitbart-news-can-be-pro-israel-and-anti-semitic-at-t/)

And of course he would put up working with Jews if it meant he had a seat at
the table and a chance to enact his wildest dreams. In a choice between power
and principles, most people chose power. Your proposed Occam's Razor doesn't
work because you're ignoring the most obvious thing: the desire of people for
power. If being Trump's right hand man means putting up with Kushner, then so
be it. I'm sure Kushner, as the other key figure standing beside the throne,
feels the same way. He can put up with an antisemite in order to be in the
White House.

Think about it. Occam's Razor is for the simplest choice. Assuming Bannon's
racism, Bannon's choice here is: work with Jews and have a lot of power, or
avoid Jews and go back to the mundane life as a publisher with no seat at the
table. There's really no question of what he would choose.

~~~
pfarnsworth
Think about it for even a second. Your story makes no sense. Is he an anti-
semite or is he not? If he is, then why would Ivanka and Jared Kushner, both
devout Jews, allow Bannon to join the campaign? They are Jews, how could they
tolerate having him next to them?

Nothing you suggest makes sense. The only answer that makes logical sense is
that he's not an anti-semite. None of your conspiracist theories make any
sense.

But then again, if you think Bush was behind the 9-11 bombings, then there's
nothing really to discuss either.

~~~
GFK_of_xmaspast
This is an interesting mental model about how people work.

------
Malician
I agree that Uber should have participated in the strike. You said "welcome to
post-truth politics" and "clearly and unambiguously untrue." Please
demonstrate that I am a liar.

~~~
dang
We detached this subthread from
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13515263](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13515263)
and marked it off-topic.

------
tibbon
Why will Uber not pull their heads out of their ass and have any moral-basis
for operation? It's not like they don't hire a _ton_ of Green Card holders...

