

Wattvision (YC W09) Now Shipping - savrajsingh
http://blog.wattvision.com/wattvision-now-shipping-sensors-for-digital-a

======
SriniK
Ping confirmed that you are using google appengine.

>ping www.wattvision.com PING ghs.l.google.com (74.125.113.121) 56(84) bytes
of data.

When you use federated login, google appengine is behaving as if request came
from the same google assets. This is a major hole. However it is recommended
you use following login method.

[http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/python/users/overview....](http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/python/users/overview.html)

EDIT: Just reported the bug with appengine groups.
[http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-
python/brows...](http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-
python/browse_thread/thread/cc6f25ecbed16a2b#)

~~~
savrajsingh
>>> UPDATE: Google confirms (see post by sean_lynch below): Google here,
confirming this is an issue with the Users API on App Engine. On-call team is
working on the fix now. <<<

>>> They rolled out a fix at 12:30PT. <<<

Ok will read up on that, thanks for confirming. We still cannot repro the
exact issue, however.

Here are our repro steps:

\- Inside an Incognito Window in Chrome, created a new Gmail account, signed
out, signed in and checked "remember me". \- In another tab, visited
wattvision. Clicking my house brings up "wattvision uses google accounts for
sign in" log-in window which asks for password.

Thanks for your help and support here!

-s

~~~
SriniK
Just use a different browser for the new account that you created. So many
users reported the problem.

Incognito mode is not the one you should test with.

------
lazyant
I was logged into my gmail account and after visiting this site, without
signing up for anything I get a welcome email, WTF?

~~~
savrajsingh
That's not the expected behavior. We use Google Accounts for Sign In, but it
should present you with a window that says "sign in to wattvision" and ask you
for your password again, even if you are already logged in to Gmail. We'll
confirm / try to repro on our end. Any other info you have is appreciated.

UPDATE: We definitely want to fix this, we do not want to surprise or
inadvertently sign up users. That's not our intention and we're not that kind
of company!

UPDATE 2: Ok it looks like Google has updated their "federated login"
<http://code.google.com/apis/accounts/docs/OpenID.html> since we implemented
our login system, so we'll check against that and see what's up?

If anyone from Google is reading this and can comment/help, please email us at
founders@wattvision.com.

Thanks!

~~~
lazyant
My navigation was:

\- home page \- /house \- /info/sensors \- /house/add

I went to the last page because I was curious that you had to register
_before_ buying.

At this last page I saw my gmail username pre-populated in the form
automatically which freaked me out (I didn't even know grabbing a visitor's
google account name was possible) and I closed the page, I did not submit
(voluntarily) any info. Then within a couple of minutes I got in my gmail
account a welcome email.

I think this is way worse than spam, fix asap.

~~~
Confusion

      (I didn't even know grabbing a visitor's google account
       name was possible)
    

I didn't either, but it seems you can simply use Google's API to allow a user
to sign in, where the user name of the user that signs in (or is already
signed in!), is reported to the user of the API via a callback. The request
after you sign in has a 'continue' HTTP header that says something like:

    
    
      continue=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wattvision.com%2F_ah%2Flogin%3Fcontinue%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2F
      www.wattvision.com%2Fhouse&service=ah&dsh=2844188452075813479&timeStmp=&secTok=&GALX=
      DTEVMCX16p4&Email=<your gmail address>&Passwd=<your_password>

------
gesh
To everyone complaining about the Google account login on wattvision.com: this
looks like a major Google bug, not a WattVision problem. Even if they _were_
evil, this should not be possible.

~~~
savrajsingh
In the end, it was a Google bug, and they fixed it at 12:30PT.

------
jeebusroxors
You should include a link to your site from the blog. I was borderline
interested in the product, wanted to see what it was about and went hunting
for a link and then became uninterested after I couldn't find one.

I think this was just discussed on HN too. There may be better input on that
thread.

~~~
savrajsingh
Can you point us to that thread? Good feedback, yes, we'll add the links.

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yock
I suspect that this sort of device could be removed by the power company
should they discover it.The homeowner/tenant does not, in most cases, own the
meter and some power companies could consider this a modification of the meter
and have it removed. Heck, they might even bill you for the removal.

I'm speculating, of course, but it seems like a real risk to me.

~~~
yanowitz
I think this is incorrect speculation. Black&Decker, for example, sells a
similar looking device. I've had one on my meter for months and no one's said
anything.

~~~
yock
Straight from B&D's site:

The reference to specific manufacturers is for informational purposes only and
does not represent that the Power Monitor has been approved or endorsed by the
manufacturer or your local power company.

[http://www.blackanddecker.com/energy/PowerMonitorCompatibili...](http://www.blackanddecker.com/energy/PowerMonitorCompatibility.htm)

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tlb
Sweet! We installed one at Anybots and it's surprisingly useful to know how
much power the building is using. You make what you measure, or in this case
use less of what you measure.

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sgt
I like it. Will you be shipping internationally? Just a note, the size
comparison is not very useful since I:

1) Do not know how large that particular candy bar is. It could be a tiny one
or it could be a huge one. 2) I have no idea how large that Reddit toy is.

:-)

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kno
Wow looking at the ranking page here <http://www.wattvision.com/rankings>
Mark's House use about 10 times energy as comparable size homes. Is it a house
or an open air furnace?

~~~
benologist
It's just a regular house with a nice big garden ... in the basement.

~~~
kno
Nice, I knew it.

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bhavin
I never knew this thing would sign me in to google _without my permission_..
and even register for subscription.. WTF?!

~~~
bhavin
_creates a bad impression for otherwise reputed YC startups.._

------
duck
Has that sensor been tested in winter conditions? I know my power meter
usually ends up having a foot of snow on it for most of the winter.

~~~
savrajsingh
Yes, it has. The sensor survived the harsh winter storm that dumped a couple
feet of snow last winter in the Northeast.

~~~
jat850
What about other forms of harsh winter conditions - extremely low temperatures
(including wind chill)?

~~~
jiaaro
Wind chill doesn't affect things that don't attempt to maintain a warmer
temperature than the environment.

Wind chill is the effect of cool air passing by a warm object taking away it's
heat energy more rapidly than stagnant cool air surrounding the object.

Wind does not cause an object to get colder than the air around it.

------
JeffJenkins
I'm interested in this kind of product, but I live in an apartment and don't
have access to my electric meter (or if I do, I definitely can't install
things on it). Is there something like this I could use on individual outlets?

~~~
wmf
If you have a breaker panel you can measure at that point:
<http://www.theenergydetective.com/store/ted-5000>

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petenixey
Dammit Savraj, in one fell swoop you not only brought out a super-cool greet
tech appliance but also realised the dream that Clickpass never could - true
seamless sign-on. The King is dead, long live the King!

~~~
savrajsingh
Hahah! Thanks Peter. And thanks for the escalation to your google contact,
they totally fixed the issue. ;)

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mike-cardwell
Pretty neat. It will be possible to determine if a house is occupied, by
looking at the current and historical power usage data. You've still got to
find the address though.

------
websta001
Awesome tech, Will be very interesting to put on my folks house which has
historically had really odd utilities spikes. I can finally debug :).

------
lutorm
Congrats! Does this hardware work with more meter types than the beta
hardware? My meter was not one of those that it initially worked with, so I
sent in a picture of it, and I would very much like to get this working.

~~~
savrajsingh
Yes. Please ping us at info@wattvision.com

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dustingetz
I wasn't able to find the cost until I signed in.

<http://www.wattvision.com/info/sensors>

$239 for hardware sensor $8.99/mo for historical data

~~~
savrajsingh
You don't need to sign in to view the link you posted or the pricing page.
Also note that 'monthly plan' doesn't start until April 15, 2011.

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ph0rque
Do the WattVision guys have plans to create sensors that can replace light
switches and receptacles? Perhaps with wireless mesh networking? That would be
sweet :~).

~~~
savrajsingh
Our current release is "minimum viable product" ;)

~~~
ph0rque
Sure I understand... I guess what I was asking is if you had any plans to
create the products I mentioned above.

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SabrinaDent
Login issues aside (I realise they are significant but they're very well
covered here)...

This is a great product. I'm delighted for you that you've launched it as a
shipable unit after what I'm sure was epic work. But you just cannot sell to
consumers on a website that look like that. Your homepage consists of a
_graph_ , for crying out loud.

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ErrantX
Any plans to go international? I would bite your hand off for something like
this in the UK :D

~~~
thomie
Apparently they already are: <http://www.wattvision.com/browse/by_location>

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craigmd
Sweet.

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adnanmahmud
very cool!

------
adnanmahmud
Very cool!

