
Why I killed my standing desk - fluxic
https://medium.com/swlh/why-i-killed-my-standing-desk-891174f9d6e6
======
bazzargh
The latter half of the article set all kinds of alarm bells ringing, starting
with the pseudoscientific _Air squats are one of the best ways to release
enzymes that breakdown the production of fat in your body_. So what's the
evidence for _that_? Following the link, the page you land at does not mention
enzymes at all. Moreover, it's by Mercola, who has his own page on quackwatch
([http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/mercola.html](http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/mercola.html))

So I looked at some of the other links, and point 1 about raising your legs
cites...the Daily Mail. Not a reliable source, and particularly pilloried for
its medical coverage, see eg [https://kill-or-
cure.herokuapp.com/](https://kill-or-cure.herokuapp.com/)

The article is fine as an anecdote about the author's failed attempts to use a
standing desk, but it's not persuasive evidence.

------
egypturnash
My work environment: standing desk with big monitor. And a low coffee table at
the right height for putting the laptop on and sitting on the floor.

And of course taking the laptop out for a walk to a cafe or park. Variety.

Except right now the coffee table is covered with Lego castles because I got
this toy dragon princess who demands a pretty place to live in. These things
happen and you have to work around them.

------
ryanmclaughlin
Millions upon millions of workers are on their feet for 8+ hours a day.
Imagine that!

Guy can't stand up for more than 4 hours, writes complaints on Medium.
Articles like this are why the tech industry gets a bad name.

~~~
_greim_
Generally those workers are also moving around, not standing absolutely still
with their arms held out in front of them. Standing desks don't insulate you
from the need for frequent breaks.

~~~
eropple
If you're standing absolutely still at your standing desk, you're kind of
crazy. I'm constantly moving; right now I'm sort of idly shifting back and
forth from left foot to right. And my arms aren't held out in front of me,
they're at my sides and bent loosely at the elbow to reach my keyboard and
mouse. When I'm not typing and just thinking a bit, I stick my hands in my
pockets, too--I don't leave them sitting on the desk.)

~~~
JTon
I often find myself with my arms behind my back while I wait for my
script/application/web page to finish/load

------
leothekim
I use a standing desk because I have two herniated discs in my lower back, and
if I sit for extended periods then I increase the risk of muscle spasms that
last over a day.

I generally agree with the author's sentiment - if you don't need a standing
desk then don't get one. But for crying out loud, don't write some
authoritative-sounding Medium post about what you should do instead that cites
questionable web sites and links to a random video of a Russian lady doing
squats.

------
eropple
This is kind of a weird article to me. I've been using a standing desk for
about...three years now? Somewhere around there. When I'm tired (which stopped
being a major concern after about three weeks for me, but if I'm standing for
a couple hours straight without doing much moving it can be a little annoying)
I pull up my draft-height chair, which I got for a hundred bucks, and sit for
a while. Then I stand again.

~~~
OrwellianChild
Was going to mention the same - my standing desk has a standing-height chair
that I can take breaks in without interrupting my productivity... This (along
with not accepting that acclimation to standing all day would take some time
to adjust) seems to be the missing piece of the puzzle for the author.

------
luketych
Man that author is spreading so much ignorance. He is a defeatist. He didn't
figure out how to stand properly so now he is on some mission to justify his
own failure. Standing desks are not the answer unless you have good standing
posture and know how to move. He makes a few decent points but then he smears
them together in a completely idiotic way. It's more complicated than he would
have readers believe.

Isn't this just basic psychology then when you fail at something you try to
justify why you didn't want to do it anyway? i.e. Tickets to the concert are
sold out -> "I didn't want to go see Black Sabbath anyways. They aren't that
good and they're too expensive anyways."

------
nickjj
You need to get used to it like anything else.

I'm a few weeks into using a self-built standing desk[1] and I don't even
realize I'm standing anymore.

Yesterday I stood for 15 hours and walked 3 miles and at the 15th hour I
barely felt different than when I started the day. I took (2) 10min sitting
breaks for meals.

[1] [http://blog.nickjanetakis.com/post/137161793153/build-
home-m...](http://blog.nickjanetakis.com/post/137161793153/build-home-made-
standing-desk-for-50-dollars)

~~~
slantyyz
>> You need to get used to it like anything else.

Totally. I used boxes and makeshift platforms to test whether standing was for
me. My first day was brutal. The only thing that ran through my mind was "What
was I thinking?"

After a couple of days though, it was second nature. My knees do get tight,
but it forces me to do squats to stretch them out -- not a bad thing, IMO.

I have a similar setup to yours, except for the keyboard platform, I used an
inexpensive shoe shelf [1] and a vertically oriented VESA monitor stand [2]
for my 2 27" monitors.

On the odd occasion that I want my laptop elevated, I use an articulating
laptop stand [3] to the left of my keyboard platform. In this case, I use
Microsoft's Mouse Without Borders to "extend" my desktop's workspace to the
laptop.

Like the author of the linked post, I have to sit down for some types of tasks
("deep thinking" stuff like planning or design) but in those cases, I just use
my laptop and sit down somewhere. Recently, I added an Ikea stool to my setup
[4] that seems to be designed for their sit-stand desks.

It's not the nicest setup, I'm thinking of something more permanent, like
building a standing workstation into an IKEA PAX wall unit.

[1] [http://www.homedepot.com/p/ClosetMaid-Selectives-24-in-
White...](http://www.homedepot.com/p/ClosetMaid-Selectives-24-in-White-
Stackable-Storage-Organizer-7067/100597820)

[2]
[https://secure.img1.wfrcdn.com/lf/187/hash/31565/13889834/1/...](https://secure.img1.wfrcdn.com/lf/187/hash/31565/13889834/1/Vivo-
Triple-LCD-Monitor-Height-Adjustable-3-Screen-Desk-Mount-Stand-
STAND-V003D.jpg)

[3] [http://pcbuild.qoeeky.com/wp-
content/uploads/2015/10/9e2bf91...](http://pcbuild.qoeeky.com/wp-
content/uploads/2015/10/9e2bf917d98d.jpg)

[4]
[http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/products/60279570/](http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/products/60279570/)

~~~
nickjj
Nice set up. Your [1] looks like a good match for a keyboard shelf.

You know what's funny. A lot of those tall chairs cost $100-150ish. I actually
contemplated buying a cheap $200ish laptop instead of a chair, simply because
the laptop has much more utility. Then I would just sit with a normal chair
and use the laptop for breaks.

My plan was to wait a month or so and see how things panned out before buying
anything for sitting. So far I don't feel like I need one.

Haven't ran into any deep thinking issues lately. Currently I'm in the middle
of planning an online course out which does require some thinking but I
haven't noticed it being harder to think while standing.

At the start it definitely affected me when all I could think about was how
bad I wanted to sit.

~~~
slantyyz
I actually had trouble finding something for my keyboard. I use a "gaming"
(ugh, I hate that label) keyboard that's quite wide, but I'm not willing to
give up the macro keys for something smaller.

I finally realized a shoe shelf would do it. I think I paid $20 CAD for it. I
think it's half the price in the US. It looks as cheap as it costs though.
Originally I thought it would be a stepping stone to a Varidesk, but now I
realize I can get away with a stand-only setup if I just got a stool.

FWIW, I just bought the stool a couple of weeks ago, so it took me around a
year of standing to pull the trigger.

I've been looking at chairs for a while, but like you said, they can get
expensive (I had my eye on the Humanscale Pony Saddle [1]). I don't sit for
long periods of time on the stool, just here and there to take the weight off.

At $60 CAD, I figured the Ikea Nilserik was probably a low risk purchase
compared to something >= 2X the price. You obviously get what you pay for, but
if you're not planning to sit most of the time, it works out fine.

[1]
[https://www.humanscale.com/products/product.cfm?group=Freedo...](https://www.humanscale.com/products/product.cfm?group=FreedomSaddle)

------
lazzlazzlazz
This is ridiculous. After years of avoiding standing for continuous periods,
the author tries standing for a few hours, can't do it, and then thinks it's
worth sharing with the world?

Try standing a little longer - you realize people generally get better at
physical things as they try them?

------
dfan
Previous discussion of this article on HN:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9275623](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9275623)

------
grahamburger
I just got a walking desk set up in my home office with an old used treadmill
and some cinder blocks. It's fantastic. I've tried doing just a standing desk
and had a lot of the same problems the author mentions - my legs would get
achy and I couldn't get in to a flow. While walking I don't have that problem.
In fact I daresay my focus increases while walking. I've done about 50 miles
on it so far and I feel great.

------
mixmastamyk
I see a few issues with this post (as others have).

1\. He has a wood floor. They are hard and he should have compensated, either
with more than a yoga mat, and better shoes, or Dr. Scholls inserts, etc.

2\. A tall chair. The standing benefits are for people who move around, not
simply stand in place for eight hours.

No need for a $2k motorized desk that moves, a simple $100 tall chair will do
the trick as you can alternate standing and sitting throughout the day.

~~~
redwards510
If anyone is looking for a good, buy-it-for-life floor mat, I highly recommend
the Topo Mat.[1] It is like a playground for your feet! It encourages constant
shifting of your feet and has these rubbery ridges that are fun to stand on. I
am not affiliated with them or ergo depot.

[http://www.ergodepot.com/Topo_Standing_Mat_p/afmtsm.htm](http://www.ergodepot.com/Topo_Standing_Mat_p/afmtsm.htm)

------
ahallock
Why didn't he get a desk that raises and lowers? Then if you're in the zone
but are tired of standing, just lower the desk and sit down.

------
xythian
Another case for moderation in all things. If you're tired of standing, then
sit for a while. If you're tired of sitting, then stand for a while. Don't
build a $22 IKEA desk. If you spend 100% of your work day at a desk, then make
the investment in yourself and get an adjustable setup.

~~~
Eric_WVGG
or just get yourself a bar stool… I’m a little baffled by why more folks
trying this don’t keep one around at least for while they’re adjusting to it

~~~
eropple
Draft-height chairs are great for this. So's my exercise bike, which fits
perfectly under my desk if I take the handlebars off.

------
thieving_magpie
That is some serious overanalyzing. Everyone's body and environment are
different. Get something adjustable or rig it to be makeshift, go about your
day. Buying into marketing ("sitting is the new smoking" is just that,
marketing) is always going to be misleading.

------
arandolpha
I will say, I was happy to see the 135 degree angle mentioned. If you
meditate, you know how much posture and physical positioning can impact your
state of consciousness.

Having an upright spine (standing/kneeling/sitting with a stacked spine)
facilitates an alert, problem solving state of consciousness.

But for less mentally intensive tasks (code cleanup, research, intra-day
relaxation) reclining in a "zero gravity" position is an ideal restorative
posture. We don't need to be upright for all types of work!

Individual productivity is intimately linked to spinal positioning and
physical comfort. I've been working on creating a product to elegantly
facilitate multiple working postures. If anyone is interested, DM me and I'd
love to chat about it!

------
jseliger
_It was hard for me to get into a flow while standing._

This takes practice.

 _When words are flowing, leg fatigue shouldn’t cut a writing session short.
When I’m “wired in”, I don’t want to have to think about the discomfort in my
lower back. I just want to think about my work._

I have a sit-stand desk: [http://jakeseliger.com/2015/01/24/geekdesk-max-sit-
stand-des...](http://jakeseliger.com/2015/01/24/geekdesk-max-sit-stand-desk-
review-two-years-with-a-motorized-desk/). Best of both worlds! When I'm in the
zone I often get up, walk a little, and then continue working anyway. Putting
it from sitting to standing or vice versa doesn't disrupt flow, at least for
me.

~~~
forgetsusername
> _Best of both worlds!_

Exactly; there is no panacea. The purpose of "standing desks" was to prevent
workers from sitting all day. But the sitting or standing are secondary to the
_moving_.

------
orasis
This author has their priorities wrong. I'm 37, so the physical health of my
body is priority #1. Without a standing desk, I frankly wouldn't be able to
write code any more due to constant neck pain.

~~~
st553
Do you have other suggestions for reducing neck pain? I'm 30 but I experience
it very often. I just got a standing desk but wonder if that's enough.

~~~
slantyyz
Having your screen at the right height might help.

If you're a laptop user, it makes things more difficult - you'll probably have
to elevate your laptop and get an external keyboard.

------
adam_albrecht
This is why I have a sit/stand desk. Often I'll start the day sitting, then
once I've achieved a good flow, I'll switch to standing (usually in the early
afternoon).

------
matthewowen
I sat on one of these for a while: [http://www.amazon.com/Salli-happy-
ergonomic-seating-SS-TW-L5...](http://www.amazon.com/Salli-happy-ergonomic-
seating-SS-TW-L5041/dp/B002F4VXFA)

Extortionately priced, but I liked the hip angle, and mobility it encouraged,
and the fact that you were so close to standing height that you could easily
move between sitting and standing (still need a sit-stand desk though).

------
dougmccune
The author spends a lot of time discussing the findings that moderate walking
is so good for your health, but then doesn't ever try to throw a treadmill
under the desk. I've been working at my treadmill desk for about 3 months and
I absolutely love it. However, I can't stand stationary for very long. That
hurts my whole body after an hour or so. But let me walk slowly at about a
mile an hour and my body feels great all day.

------
blakesterz
Wow, there's a lot in this article. For me the standing desk is not a EITHER
stand all damn day no matter how much it hurts OR sit all day. It's stand
some, sit some. Stand when I feel like it, or it feels right. Sit when I feel
like it, or if it feels right. But having this desk at least gives me the
option. I feel like the author made it I MUST STAND NO MATTER WHAT and then
said nope, I shall sit.

~~~
dmschulman
I don't quite get why the author thinks has to be a binary either. Standing up
for 8 hours a day has its health consequences too (if not more).

When I sourced my desk at IKEA I spent an extra $20 on a bar-height chair that
folds up. I can stand when I want and sit when I want. The trick is to
alternate actively.

------
DrScump
<One community in Okinawa, Japan has one fifth the risk of colon and breast
cancer and lives seven years longer than the average American.>

Apparently, this has nothing to do with their _far healthier diet than the
average American_ , in the author's eyes.

Also, teaching people to do bodyweight squats with their torso leaning forward
and stopping well below parallel is just bad, bad, bad.

------
teovall
You shouldn't expect to stand 8 hours a day. Get a sit stand desk. Stand when
you feel like standing, sit when you feel like sitting.

------
desireco42
If standing for long time was such a great thing, all those hordes of retail
workers would be thriving in health and joy.

I am not saying sitting is all that great, but standing all time is not
solution. Sensible approach to everything is what wins and we lack those.

------
argo12
I think the relevant bits are in the second half of the article. Squats,
stretches and general moving around is good for anyone who has a sedentary
job. Too much sitting or standing is not a good idea overall.

------
irascible
I've been programming while sitting in a position that resembles a curled up
prawn, for about 25 years now.

Zero back problems. My posture is a bit shitty, but my income makes up for it.

------
xyzzy4
I like to sit down instead of stand. Just make sure to change your posture all
the time. Fidgeting is good. And stand up to do something at least once every
15-30 minutes.

------
sgdread
The chair he has in a picture (IKEA Markus) gave me a huge back pain also it
is not very good at supporting you in 135 degree position.

------
user8341116
I lol'd at this trend the second I heard about it. Friggin' hipsters.

------
szxnyc
Here you go: google.com/search?q=define+moderation

