
CarWoo is shutting down - uptown
http://carwoo.com/
======
Killah911
Would really like to find out why they're shutting down. I ran a virtual car
dealership for a while and then started a similar site to carwoo, before
carwoo. It was absolutely crazy. Six months into it, both my cofounder and I
decided it was best to shut it down (amid concerns that his employer might
just end up getting all or a significant chunk of our work).

The auto industry is a very weird one. Entrenched in their own way, and I
learned that it's a zero sum type game where the one willing to stoop the
lowest will win. Going to a few "dealer workshops" I learned psychological
tactics to make the customer feel like crap to get them to pay you more money
and sign contracts that they would inevitably regret later. Eventually I
realized that in the back it's really a financing industry (at least for new
cars) and for used cars it's a zero sum, get the most you can scenario or
bloodsucking buy here pay here deals.

After a significant amount of time and money, I was humbled at how much of an
uphill battle it was to try to innovate in the industry. Have been watching
CarWoo & TrueCar with a lot of interest (I'm a fan) since I can feel what
they're up against. I'd like to know why CarWoo feels it's time to shut it
down. Tesla has, IMHO, disrupted the new car market to some degree and the
industry is dire need of change. Here's to hoping the folks at CarWoo go on to
bigger and better things!

~~~
tommy_mcclung
I'm going to work on writing this up. Lots of reasons and it deserves a
detailed post-mortem.

~~~
jayzee
I was a big fan of CarWoo! I got my mazda3 at a great price thanks to you
guys. Best of luck man!

------
jader201
I used CarWoo a couple years ago to purchase my current car. Before I was
introduced to CarWoo, I did my own "no-haggle" negotiating by contacting
various dealers via email.

I think I contacted about 3 or 4 dealers, all of them local (within 30 miles).
I ended up with one that was my best price.

Then I found CarWoo, and thought I would try my luck with them. They did a
similar search, and contacted 5 dealers, two or three of which were the same
ones I contacted.

Of the others, they were further away than what I was willing to deal with
initially, but after seeing one offer a fairly significant savings over the
other (about $750), I decided to take that offer to one of the local dealers.

They matched it, and I walked away with about $700 savings (after the CarWoo
fee) vs. my initial offers. So in the end, I was definitely glad I went with
CarWoo.

If I had to do it again without CarWoo (and I would now, apparently), I
learned that I should open up my searches to not-so-local dealers just to get
the best offer, then have a more conveniently located dealer match it. That
is, unless you want to reward the best-offer dealer with your business, and
it's not too much of a hassle.

But I was still able to get roughly the same experience on my own, just
dealing with the dealers via email.

~~~
CCs
With Consumer Reports info I got 5% off MSRP. With CarWoo it was 10% off and a
lot less work.

------
vinhboy
The TrueCar homepage ([http://www.truecar.com/](http://www.truecar.com/))
looks like one of those generic 404/squatter page.

~~~
buss
Oh wow, I wonder when and why they started using this design? If I saw this
without already knowing about TrueCar I would have immediately closed the tab.

~~~
mojobot
Yeah, it's mostly the top banner that's the problem. With the large stock
image that may or may not be about buying a car and the set of links that are
sort of relevant to what you want. Scrolling further, the content looks more
legitimate. Had I not just read that article, I wouldn't have gone beyond the
top banner.

------
sayemm
I really digged the idea of CarWoo when I first read about it on HN years
ago... sorry to hear this news, all the best to the team.

On a side note, kinda crazy reading about 3 well-funded venture-backed
startups shutting down at the top of HN today:

[http://www.crunchbase.com/company/canv-
as](http://www.crunchbase.com/company/canv-as)

[http://www.crunchbase.com/company/outbox](http://www.crunchbase.com/company/outbox)

[http://www.crunchbase.com/company/carwoo](http://www.crunchbase.com/company/carwoo)

------
guynamedloren
What am I missing here? I don't see anything on the site mentioning this
impending shutdown...

------
buss
This is really a shame. I used them to buy my car a year ago and the process
was fantastic. I ended up getting about $5k below the sticker price by
combining the five or so offers I got from CarWoo with information from
TrueCar and playing the best two dealerships against each other. To top it off
I got them to give me 0% interest over a three year payment.

Hopefully something like CarWoo will exist the next time I need to buy a car,
or the industry changes so drastically that we don't need to worry about
haggling anymore.

------
justhw
Carwoo doesn't mention anywhere on the site about the shut down but recode.net
mentions it.

[http://recode.net/2014/01/21/two-ways-to-fail-startups-
drawq...](http://recode.net/2014/01/21/two-ways-to-fail-startups-drawquest-
and-outbox-die/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews)

------
seancoleman
As a CarWoo customer, this is really disappointing. I used CarWoo for my first
dealership purchase and it was an incredibly pleasant experience. I was able
to walk in to the dealership knowing exactly how much I would pay and
confident that it was all a matter of signing papers.

I really hoped CarWoo was going to disrupt this industry. Bummer.

------
rblatz
That's unfortunate, car sales are really in need of disruption, and it sucks
to see a talented motivated group like that go under.

If any of the people from Carwoo are interested in a developer job in the
online car sales field (used not new), send me a message. Especially if you
are a developer, we are always hiring talented developers.

------
prawn
I assume that their new work with a competing site means that they wouldn't be
interested in trying to sell CarWoo? Otherwise it often surprises me that
people abandon their efforts without at least trying to sell the
codebase/database as a starting point to someone else.

~~~
erik_landerholm
You are making a lot of assumptions here.

~~~
prawn
Well, I made one assumption!

------
firebones
Sorry to hear this. Bought one car a couple of years ago with them and I'd
characterize it as saving me time more than saving me money on price, but I
was happy since it saved some hassle and legwork. When we went to replace
another car last year, the CarWoo team didn't get back to us at all, so it
seemed like things were not going well there.

Not to speculate, but it seemed like as I went through the process two years
ago was one that might not be able to scale out and provide a consistent
experience to large numbers of consumers across the country.

Best of luck to all and thanks for aiming high.

------
michaelrbock
There's still a lot of work to be done to make the experience of car shopping
easier, so it's sad to see CarWoo shutting down. Side note: those interested
in disrupting the car buying space like CarWoo/TrueCar may want to check out
[http://www.hackomotive.com/](http://www.hackomotive.com/) the $35k hackathon
put on by Edmunds.com this February. (Disclaimer: I used to intern for
Edmunds.com on the API team,
[http://developer.edmunds.com/](http://developer.edmunds.com/))

------
psyklic
I used CarWoo for my first dealership purchase. I was not even considering
buying a new car, so I just signed up on CarWoo on a whim. However, I was
shocked at how low one of the offers was, only about $1-2K more than I was
willing to spend for a used car. (I was also having major problems at the time
finding a decent non-shady "newer" used car.)

I ended up buying new rather than used, and with only minimal hassle at the
dealership. That said, if I had done a lot of legwork I could have found the
deal independently, since it was advertised in the dealership's flier.

------
IgorPartola
Not haggling for cars is IMHO definitely anti-consumer. That's the last
bastion of defense a buyer has against a giant information void they are
facing. Square 6-12 dealerships against each other in a deathmatch for your
money and watch the price drop. Until actual sales prices start being
disclosed (not the meaningless invoices or the less than useless MSRP), we
will never know the true price of a car. It's a one sided market. The only
advantage a buyer has is the ability to make dealers compete.

~~~
prostoalex
It's not like TrueCar and Costco don't exist.

~~~
IgorPartola
Well, first, TrueCar doesn't exist:
[http://www.truecar.com/](http://www.truecar.com/). Second, what does Costco
do for you in terms of getting a better price? In either case I don't believe
they deal with pre-owned cars, which is really the best bang for your buck
IMHO.

But yes, my main point is that we should not just submit to the will of the
car dealers and take their "best price everz" as gospel. Things like CarWoo
and TrueCar need to exist, if only to protect those less likely to haggle face
to face.

Edit: oh, TrueCar does exist, just looks super spammy.

~~~
ryanhuff
Costco (supposedly) has pre-negotiated, no haggle pricing. I used them in the
past, and the experience was great (except for the trade-in). Also, there are
still car brokers that you can hire to do your bidding.

~~~
bane
Can you provide more info on the brokers? I was not aware this existed!?

~~~
ryanhuff
I really don't know much about them beyond my own limited experience as a
shopper (about 6 years ago). I came to know of a local broker (southern
California) via a referral at about the time I was looking to buy a new car,
and decided to try the service. This particular broker charges an up-front,
fixed fee (maybe $100? I don't remember), and he shops for the best deal in
the region for your specific vehicle configuration.

Even though I hired him, I decided to also see what the local Costco deal was
(wasn't completely confident Costco couldn't do better). The pricing the
broker negotiated was a shade better than I could get through Costco (maybe
$75 less, including the broker fee), but the big plus was that the car was
delivered to my door, and the contracts were signed on my kitchen table. I
never had to set foot on a dealer lot (minus my own Costco experiment). No
"finance guy" circus. It was cleanest car buying experience I have had.

------
uptown
Am I the only one that doesn't mind the car-buying process? All it takes is
the fortitude to sit through a litany of maneuvers trying to convince you to
agree on a price - when you've got zero obligation to consent. Sure - it takes
time, which is a scare commodity for many - but for the amount of money
generally being spent, I've got no problem pushing a salesperson to get the
price to where I want it.

~~~
jack-r-abbit
I have a fond memory of going with my roommate when he was buying a new car.
He had a decent amount to give as a down payment. Armed with the knowledge of
how much the dealer pays, he basically walked in, said he'd buy a certain car
for a certain amount and not more and handed them his down payment check. The
salesman took the offer to his manager. He returned with a counter offer. My
roommate didn't budge. After three trips to talk to the manager (each time
their offer came down), my roommate remained stuck in his price. On the last
trip, their offer was just $500 higher than the desired price. Roommate still
held his ground. We watched as the two men were discussing the check in hand.
The salesman kept pointing at the check. We couldn't hear what they were
saying but we knew it had to be along the lines of "He's going to buy a car.
Give him the price he wants." The manager would not come down any lower. We
walked out... just $500 away from closing the deal. And the best part... he
got a call later that evening asking if he'd still be interested in the car at
his desired price.

If you have the time and initiative (and can be willing to walk away without a
car) you _can_ get a good deal.

~~~
ovulator
"Armed with the knowledge of how much the dealer pays"

That is key, most of us don't have that.

~~~
gregpilling
Knowing the dealer invoice price does not tell you how much the dealer makes
on the car. Most of the dealers that my company sells to make their money from
bonuses for moving units.

More on how dealers make money is here [http://www.edmunds.com/car-
buying/where-does-the-car-dealer-...](http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/where-
does-the-car-dealer-make-money.html)

------
mrfusion
I was totally going to use them to buy a car next month! Are there any good
alternatives? I can't handle anymore haggling and tricks.

~~~
johnatwork
Well as the article said, try
[http://www.truecar.com/](http://www.truecar.com/) I guess. Being in Canada, I
was hoping that CarWoo would do well and eventually move up north. The car
purchasing experience is terrible, and is very ready for a disruption.

~~~
mrfusion
I may be wrong but truecar doesn't remove the need to haggle?

~~~
thomasmeeks
I used truecar (through overstock.com, I don't think overstock uses them
anymore though) 2 years ago to buy a sonata. It was a great experience, and
quite a lot off sticker.

Zero negotiation, walked in with the paper, that's the price of the car.

I don't think you will get the deal of the century through them, but you'll at
least not get screwed. Just don't let the dealership nickel & dime you on
protectants & floormats, etc. If they can't honor the exact price, just go
somewhere else.

------
diziet
Strange to see that -- I'd walked past their office in our building (1550
Bryant) and always saw that it was empty.

------
rysmit
I had a startup called lowpenny.com that was very similar to CarWoo (before
CarWoo) except we charged the auto dealers to use our system instead of
charging users which is what CarWoo did.

The process of buying a car needs to be disrupted but the solution is not
apparent to me. Would love to know why CarWoo is calling it quits.

------
jaksmit
they gave an awesome talk about 2.5 years ago at the AngelPad incubator about
their story of hustle getting started; they slept under their desks in the
office etc. it sounded like they had a real thing going, identifying out of
down dealers that specialized in set models. Shame to see it shut down.

------
tptacek
Anyone have any experiences with Truecar?

~~~
deadfall
I don't but they are an awesome team. I use to go to their Ruby meetups and
they are so nice to the developer community. One of the guys showed a demo of
how awesome VIM is and was compelling enough that I converted and I never
looked back.

[http://www.meetup.com/sfruby/venue/?sort=date&desc=1&venueId...](http://www.meetup.com/sfruby/venue/?sort=date&desc=1&venueId=1616072)

------
trinque
I used to work for Tommy's previous start-up. Sorry to hear this, and I wish
you guys the best!

------
ChikkaChiChi
If you are looking for an alternative, Consumer Reports pricing tools work
fantastic.

~~~
erik_landerholm
Their service is run by truecar.

------
samgreen
Ex-CarWoo employee. Really sad to see this, honestly one of the last things I
expected to see on HN tonight. I know the founders are an incredible and
versatile team. Can't wait to see what they do next :)

------
serg_chernata
Sorry to hear this, they were a great inspiration to us. If anyone is looking
for a similar car buying service, check out
[https://haggledaddy.com](https://haggledaddy.com)

------
nradov
Too bad. I used them to buy a car in 2012 and the service seemed to work well,
except for a couple dealers that wanted to waste my time with offers that
didn't match what I had specifically requested.

------
te
How is TrueCar's model different from what CarWoo was doing?

~~~
orik
TrueCar has a price that they evaluate the car at, and they give you a slip of
paper that you can go into any TrueCar dealership and buy that car from them
at.

With this method, sometimes the car dealership sells a car for lower than they
were hoping with the local market, and sometimes they make a killing off the
customer.

CarWoo, on the other hand, asks each dealer individually what they want to
sell the car at, and then forwards that price to the user.

------
pointernull
You know, I'm not really one that can take pleasure in the misfortunate of
others, but good fucking riddance. I was deeply and incredibly wronged by
members of the CarWoo team. It is incredibly gratifying to see this news, when
I've done so great at keeping them out of my mind. When the court case is
finally settled, I'm sure my appalling tale will be something we can all enjoy
together.

Hey Tommy and Eric, remember when you told me you'd rather die than sell out?
Enjoy your acquihire. Maybe next time you should try listening to customers
(not to mention employees). Back to work on my startup. My users need my
product ;)

I <3 Karma.

~~~
samgreen
Troll much? Go back to 4chan.

------
bane
A shame to see it go, but I've also noticed a number of a "pre-negotiated"
venues for cars...including Cotsco of all places.

------
100k
Bummer, but good luck at TrueCar.

------
atoponce
Car what?

------
stefan_kendall
Cars are commodities, and should not be sold by salesman on commission. I'm
not buying another car until mine falls apart.

~~~
adventured
This. All dealerships should be converted to car delivery and ordering centers
(with one of each model for test driving). The middle man cost should be wiped
out, and the business should move to an order > build > x days to deliver
approach. Save buyers $3,500 on a $30,000 car, let them further and easier
customize, and they will wait for delivery.

Simply put, replace build car > sell car, with sell car > build car.

As it is, car salesmen are nothing more than order takers that generate a
large commission and overhead; the customers come to you. They only still
exist because of massive regulatory controls that have created a dealership
cartel.

Auto makers would become significantly more profitable in this model as well,
no more massive piles of inventory or huge mistakes in guessing which models
will sell. This ancient, backwards model currently costs GM and Ford billions
each year in lost profit, and costs consumers billions in unnecessary middle-
man mark-up.

~~~
sokoloff
I predict that in that world, the buy it today, drive it home tonight makes
would capture market share. Honda already does a great job of building just
one or two configs (very limited option space, other than color) and sells a
lot of cars that way.

In an "Amazon Prime" world, few people want to wait 21 days for their new car
is my hunch.

~~~
toomuchtodo
If I can't wait 21 days for a new car, I have some serious life planning
issues.

~~~
pjc50
Quite often people need a new car because their previous one suddenly broke
down or was involved in an accident, neither of which are plannable.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Did rental cars suddenly disappear? After every car accident I was involved in
where my car was a total loss, I had to wait 5-10 days for a check from my
insurance company to cover the loss. During that time, a rental was provided
to me.

