

AeroFS (YC S10): It’s Like Dropbox, But It Runs Inside Your Firewall - danest
http://techcrunch.com/2011/09/13/yc-funded-aerofs-its-like-dropbox-but-it-runs-inside-your-firewall/

======
rb2k_
I have an account and try it every once in a while. It has a nice interface
and I could really see myself using it. My current problems:

\- It doesn't support symbolic links but requires you to put all the
directories inside the special "AeroFS" directory

\- There is only an option to add a 1 GB "cloud" storage. While it is not the
primary use case, I'd love to be able to buy some more

\- Last time I checked there was no way to install aerofs on a headless linux
system (e.g. a NAS device with a JVM)

~~~
weihan
Co-founder of AeroFS here :-)

1\. Symbolic link support is currently planned, I'd go to
<http://ae.ro/qc9Ey5> and upvote it. It'll allow us to notify you when it's
done.

2\. Bigger plans are in the works, stay tuned!

3\. Headless support has been actually available for a while for most linux
distributions, check out the "aerofs-cli" and "aerofs-sh" commands.

~~~
bitops
If you implement one feature, I will switch immediately: multiple accounts
running at the same time.

I want to be able to sync my work stuff completely separate from my personal
stuff. No "Shared Folders" solution or jazz like that. Dropbox seems totally
unwilling to support this officially, so if you did, that'd be an awesome
differentiator.

~~~
StavrosK
I'm not sure if this is exactly what you mean, but, last time I checked (a
while ago) you could share different folders with different computers. For
example, you could make a "work" share and sync it only with coworkers, and a
"personal" share and sync it with your personal computers.

~~~
nhashem
The problem is if me and Joe use Dropbox for personal use, and then we come up
with a great startup idea and want to start hacking on it. On like day 5 of
working on this idea, you'll want to start sharing/saving some PDFs or excel
sheets or something. Ideally you'd be able to create a new Dropbox for this
project and run two clients on your machine, one for your personal Dropbox and
one for your new project Dropbox, and Joe can do the same.

But because you can't run two clients at once, you can't do this. You can
create "Personal" and "Project" folders in your existing Dropbox and sync to
different machines, but Joe now needs to use your Dropbox account and he can't
sync his personal account. Or you both use the web client, except you're
basically using FreeDrive from 1999. Or you use an entirely different file
sharing service like ZumoDrive, which is kind of silly.

I get that multi-client support for Dropbox is probably a niche feature and
will probably lead to jerks like me using 5 accounts instead of 1, so they
don't do it. And there are workarounds like Dropboxen that allow me to sort of
have multiple Dropbox instances running on my machine if I have multiple user
accounts. But man it'd be nice if multiple Dropbox instances running was a
native feature instead of having the same, "Ok, I filled out the Articles of
Organization and put them in my Dropbox so just refer to our filing number
from there."; "Why don't you put them in MY Dropbox and YOU just refer it from
there?" conversation with Joe.

~~~
StavrosK
I don't understand, why can't you just create shared folders in your single
Dropbox account and share them with whomever you like?

~~~
itsnotvalid
There is an option too in the right-click menu for sharing a folder. They may
just have missed it. But the same button on the web based interface is clear
enough, I suppose.

------
ph0rque
AeroFS is YC S10? Why are they coming out as a YC company only now?

~~~
yurisagalov
I'm writing a blog post about this now :)

------
mrinterweb
I've been using AeroFS for a while now, and it is great. AeroFS lacks the
polish that Dropbox has, but for me AeroFS fills the need of folder
synchronization and redundancy much better than Dropbox. Your available
storage space is only limited by your disk space on the computers you sync
with.

------
elehack
I've been watching AeroFS for a few months now, and it is a fascinating
product that almost meets my needs. Just a few things keep me from using it,
some of which I can't quite put my finger on enough to turn in to real feature
requests on UserVoice.

\- It crashes sometimes. I think it does this less frequently now, but its
favorite time to crash is when I suspend & resume my laptop.

\- Synchronization is a difficult problem to solve, and users need to have
confidence that the software Does It Right. Somehow Dropbox achieves this, and
I can't put my finger on how; I think part of it is the fact that conflicting
files are duplicated and clearly marked. I haven't had conflicting syncs yet
with AeroFS, so I'm not sure how it handles them, but I also haven't seen
documentation on what happens. It's a combination of an algorithmic problem,
which you presumably have solved, and a UI problem to demonstrate to the user
that their data is safe and correct.

\- It doesn't yet support ignores. There's a feature request for this, and
I've upvoted it, so hopefully it's just a matter of time. When I'm syncing a
source directory, I don't want the built files synced. Yes, there's version
control, but it's really convenient to sync portions of my Eclipse workspace
so I can transparently work on the same changes on both my laptop and
workstation.

\- I don't know how it works. There are two pieces of this that are
interesting to me: the network topology and the crypto design. One of AeroFS's
selling points is that your data is never shipped to the centralized cloud
unless you explicitly use AeroFS cloud storage. However, as a privacy-
conscious user, I would like to know exactly where my data is going, when, and
how it is protected. Some data seems to be going to AeroFS's servers for
coordination; what all data is? File lists, or just peer locations & names of
libraries? A diagram what network connections are used and where data is
shipped would help users such as myself understand where our data go and what
the risk points are. Hopefully this can be documented without jeopardizing
your special sauce/value-add. For the crypto side, it would be useful to know
exactly what crypto algorithms are in use, where, and in what configurations.
Some providers claim Great Crypto, and then they're using Blowfish. You've got
some of this - your Features page discusses the use of the 2048-bit RSA keys.
But how is the "secure channel" established? How are the RSA keys secured
against theft (e.g. the Dropbox steal-the-auth-DB hack)? The crypto
documentation could be overlaid on the network infrastructure documentation.
In short - why should I believe the security claims? With things like this, I
think extensive transparency is the best way to engender trust with your
users, particularly when your competition is criticized for transparency-
related issues (e.g. the encryption "misunderstanding" with Dropbox).

I think AeroFS has a lot of promise, and I want you guys to succeed. We need
some good, secure, strongly-privacy-preserving competition in the cloud file
sync space.

~~~
elehack
Update: they have some network documentation here: <http://ae.ro/m3bHKs>

And have responded to a feature request for documentation here, so hopefully
we see it soonish: [http://vote.aerofs.com/forums/67721-feature-
requests/suggest...](http://vote.aerofs.com/forums/67721-feature-
requests/suggestions/2246067-document-network-and-cryptography-usage)

------
aquark
Previous discussion: <http://news.ycombinator.net/item?id=2877037>

------
itsnotvalid
One should note that Dropbox also transfer your files without the cloud if you
happens to have those devices within the same private network.

Also, as much as I think, having some Java programs running at the background
is the best idea. I have already got a Java background service running
(Crashplan) and it holds up to 500MB after running a longer time. I have yet
to receive an invite (msg me if you've got one!), however a native
client/background service/daemon would always be welcomed.

------
j2labs
I've often wondered why dropbox doesn't sell a product just like this.

~~~
alexro
Dropbox aim at the mainstream, AeroFS will be harder for a non-techie to get.

------
duck
I signed up for an invite a month or so ago, any idea when you are going to
open it up for more people?

~~~
callahad
Current users can invite new people by sharing a library with them.

My email's in my profile. Feel free to contact me and I'll invite a few folks
when I get home tonight (in a few hours).

Edit: To help avoid losing your mail to the spambin, put aerofs in the subject
line.

~~~
bostonvaulter2
I just sent an email. I'm looking forward to trying it out!

------
SODaniel
I assume it runs on your computers behind your firewall and not actually
'inside' the firewall.

Also don't quite understand why TC would compare it to Dropbox. Seems like a
solid service on it's on merit.

------
rdl
AeroFS isn't merely useful for security reasons (inside firewall), but for
moving huge files around a LAN. Dropbox does do some LAN syncing on individual
accounts, but being able to share big media files during the
capture/edit/publishing process would be a great use case. In a lot of those
cases, on location, you have Gig-E or better locally, but a 3G/4G hotspot for
publishing a final stream (and general Internet use), so something cloud based
isn't viable.

------
aik
I tried this once a year or so ago, but for whatever reason it wasn't able to
get through my corporate firewall, while Dropbox was. I am curious if that has
been resolved?

~~~
yurisagalov
We've done a lot of fixes since then that should hopefully address this issue.

Let's try again and let me know :) Shoot me an email (yuri at aerofs.com) and
we can see!

~~~
aik
Hello Yuri -- I e-mailed you. My invite code has expired so I'm not able to
try again.

~~~
yurisagalov
replied :)

------
jkahn
This looks pretty cool. I am curious to see how they will compete with Dropbox
in time, though.

It does seem like FolderShare all over again - which Microsoft acquired, sat
on, and subsequently re-released no less than three times with different a
different name and different level of stability. It seems to be the role of
the startup to re-implement correctly what large organisations screw up.

------
beagle3
The equivalent open source product: SparkleShare. Except it doesn't do Windows
yet (but supposedly will soon)

~~~
culturestate
I'm not sure how AeroFS works as I've not used it, but I've tried and had some
problems with SparkleShare on larger files because of its reliance on git.

------
jhermsmeyer
My only comment: AeroFS is an objectively horrible name if you ever want wider
consumer adoption. Even if you want to cater to the techie slice of the market
it's still not ideal. Pretty important to get the name right.

------
mlapida
It sounds like a great idea, but I'm curious how it will perform along side a
traditional file sharing system. I'm not sure users will find the benefit.
Windows allows cacheing of shared drives already.

~~~
smiler
Windows shared drive performance is abysmal. Anything to improve that would be
a boon. Plus this is cross platform.

The biggest competitor is a usb stick.

~~~
mlapida
It is poor, to say the least. Good point.

------
urza
Does anyone has an invite, pretty pretty please? :)

Or better yet, when can we expect the public beta? I am waiting for this over
a year now!

------
dotmanish
I know DropBox has had security fallacies in the past.

Inside Firewall or not Inside Firewall, how is the security designed here?

------
sstarr
This sounds very interesting. Would it be possible to install the linux client
on a cheap VPS to get your own "cloud" storage?

------
esutton
does this work between 2 computers not behind the same firewall. i.e. can i
sync with a computer in la while im in ny?

~~~
yurisagalov
Yup! :)

~~~
esutton
so how is it getting around the double NAT problem? Are users acting as
bridges (like Skype super nodes) or is it going though aerofs's servers?

~~~
ttyS0
An aerofs server is used to help establish a "connection", more or less along
the lines of <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STUN>

------
thedangler
I used it with my friend to share media. But It always kept requesting. Our
computers are on all the time.

I believe this happened because on my laptop I started a folder called media.
It was shared with my friend and my desktop. After a while I removed the
folder tracking from the laptop. The syncing looked like it was working but
all I ended up getting were empty folders and requesting or nothing at all.

Bugs maybe?

------
maxklein
I wish it allowed you add an external HD to sync with.

------
nobody314159
I'm always suspicious of great new infrastructure that is free. Exactly how
are you going to make money?

Presumably by waiting until i rely on this and have invested time and effort
into moving all my data into the system - and then you will impose some
pricing model.

I prefer to know upfront how much you are going to charge for what.

~~~
BrandonDC
I would imagine that if they are offering it for free to consumers now that
they will make money by offering special enterprise solutions and/or support
packages and/or premium options.

------
wavephorm
This sounds like a problem only techies have, and already have solutions for,
like centralized file servers. I don't sync files, I keep one copy of my
files, and access them over the network.

~~~
aquark
I have a large music/photo collection I sync with AeroFS.

I have multiple machines on my network with ten's of GB of spare disk space,
so this provides a good backup policy without needing to consider how I should
back up all that data off a central file server.

~~~
0x12
That's a good backup policy until your building burns down. Better do some
off-site backups too!

------
KonradKlause
Where is the source code?

~~~
KonradKlause
Ok, no source (jet).

Please vote: [http://vote.aerofs.com/forums/67721-feature-
requests/suggest...](http://vote.aerofs.com/forums/67721-feature-
requests/suggestions/1728653-open-source-aerofs-and-only-take-payment-for-
clou?ref=title)

~~~
KonradKlause
WTF? Why is this being down-voted?

~~~
ranebo
Honestly its probably because your original comment was a one line request for
the source code to an application that isn't open source, nor whose feature
article mentioned anything about open source. I'm just guessing though, I lack
the karma to dv.

