

iPad becomes 'most quickly adopted non-phone electronic product'  - lotusleaf1987
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/05/ipad-becomes-most-quickly-adopted-non-phone-electronic-product/

======
ugh
The iPad [1] is showing up in surprising places. I first started to suspect
that it might substantially change how we use and perceive computers after my
sister told me that instead of magazines the hairdresser recently offered her
an iPad. This is not some trendy big-town hairdresser [2], this happened in a
small town in Germany. My sister loved being able to check Facebook [3] while
her hair were cut. There is just something different about the iPad [1], it
has qualities which make it ideal for certain uses, uses for which laptops or
netbooks are just not right.

[1] It’s only the iPad now but I’m sure there will be many similar devices in
the future.

[2] Ok, maybe somewhat trendy: <http://www.projecth.net/>

[3] The privacy implications make me cringe. I suspect that many customers
forget to log out, but that’s just a software problem and doesn’t really
matter in the grand scheme of things.

(This comment is a re-run: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1732887>)

~~~
masklinn
> It’s only the iPad now but I’m sure there will be many similar devices in
> the future.

There will be, but that doesn't mean they'll have the quality and drive to
show up. They've mostly been non-show so far.

------
tcskeptic
My company in the last 3 weeks has deployed about 6 iPads to executives for
mobile email via the Exchange 2007 client. I have never heard such raves about
a device, and I was skeptical when we did it. "I just hit the button, and boom
there's my email", "I can see it, unlike my blackberry." "Doesn't piss me
off."

These guys like this device to a degree that surprises me, and for most of
them, it is good enough, and does enough to keep them productive.

------
thought_alarm
I have owned many different mobile devices over the years, but the iPad is the
first to become a requisite device for resting on the couch and watching TV.
In fact, when I want to sit down and watch some TV and I can't find the iPad I
go berserk and tear the house apart looking for it.

------
danilocampos
I'm not surprised. What does surprise me is how lonely my laptop has gotten
since I grabbed an iPad.

A significant chunk of my computer time belongs to reading, research, and
light communication via email or Twitter. For these tasks, the iPad is
infinitely better than my laptop. It generates no heat, which is huge for
comfort. Its form factor works in bed, in a comfy chair, on the couch, even in
the tub (with a ziplock bag, natch).

The battery life is excellent, and would be extraordinary if not for the
weight it adds (edit: turns out this is bullshit, see below). I'm most excited
to ditch my laptop during travel. There's nothing I need from a computer that
my iPad can't do during travel.

It's best to see the iPad as an application console, the way a DS is a
portable game console. Sure, there's a bunch of stuff it can't do relative to
an honest-to-god computer. But that doesn't really matter, since its
portability and form factor make using it for the things it's great at doing
so much fun.

~~~
jbrennan
I agree with your points (iPad user here) but I don't think decreasing the
battery size would amount to a huge savings in mass. According to Marco Arment
(no link alas, on mobile), the glass display is the most massive component of
the device.

But I agree, it's a tad hefty.

~~~
irons
<http://www.marco.org/524984926>

The main contributors to weight boil down to 28% glass, 21% battery, 20% back
panel. No easy answers making naive cuts to any of them.

------
cryptoz
A quote from the article (quoting someone else):

> "there's not much a PC can do that you can't do on an iPad."

iPad can't run user programs! (without permission from Apple, anyway). What a
load of bollocks...wow.

~~~
glhaynes
Maybe it'd be better phrased as "there's not much that most PC users actually
do with their PC that they couldn't do with an iPad".

~~~
kenjackson
Things like run Flash, play WoW, or swap between a handful of tabs (including
streaming Pandora) and few running apps (like Word, Excel, and IM client) are
all pretty common things for most users I know. These aren't the geeks, but
just people who actually use their computers.

~~~
lotusleaf1987
You can download iWork: Pages for Word, Numbers for Excel, Keynote for
PowerPoint. It does the exact same stuff, easier, and for far cheaper ($30 vs
$150 or more). I'll give you WoW and Flash but I don't think "most" people
play WoW or even care about Flash. There are plenty of IM clients.

~~~
kenjackson
I've used both Pages and Numbers (but not Keynote) on iPad, and those are poor
excuses for productivity apps. They remind me of circa 2002 web apps (or
worse, circa 2010 versions of Google Apps).

My point wasn't that none of these (in my last bunch) was unavailable, but
using them all at once, is not reasonable in my use with the iPad (hence the
use of the term "swap between"). For example I'm using GoTo Meeting right now,
on this web browser, have Word, and VS open right now, with 18 open tabs. Most
people probably don't have 18 tabs open nor VS, but what I described in my
original post is pretty common. On the iPad it is just completely unreasonable
to work this way, and you're left with a much less productive environment.

The end result isn't a bad product, but one different than a laptop.

~~~
roc
The article quote is simply a refutation of the meme that the iPad is a toy or
consumption-only machine. Whether it can do _everything_ someone might want a
desk machine for is irrelevant. You're arguing against a claim no-one made.

~~~
kenjackson
This was the post I was arguing against:

"there's not much that most PC users actually do with their PC that they
couldn't do with an iPad"."

I pointed out a couple of things where the software isn't available. And
another being a use scenario that is much less comfortable. I'm directly
arguing an exact quote made by a poster.

~~~
roc
That quote says "there's not much" and you responded with... not much.

Popular as it is, PC gaming isn't something _most_ PC users actually do. Flash
is a better argument, but ultimately people don't _do_ things with Flash. They
do things that some sites use Flash to enable. Some of those activities are
unavailable, but many are available via native clients and formats. So saying
it doesn't do Flash serves as a helpful shorthand, but if most of the things
most people use flash for are available in other ways, the actual impact still
arguably falls in the range of "not much of it can't be done with an iPad".

And the quote says nothing about relative levels of comfort or capability in
doing PC tasks, so the multitasking scenarios still aren't relevant.

~~~
kenjackson
I think that's a lot more than "not much", but if you want to play that game.
How about this list. This is a list of things that a LOT of people do. Maybe
not 50% of users but a very sizeable proportion.

1) Connect to a printer and print.

2) Get data from a USB key.

3) Can the iPad connect to AD domains? This I honestly don't know, but if it
can't thats another big one. Not big for home use, but huge outside the home.

4) Upload pictures, e.g., connect a camera to it and upload pictures to the
device. A super common home use, less common in the business world.

5) Host all of my media content. Even my mom has about 100GB of media content
on her laptop now.

And lets be clear... a WinMo 5.0 device can do a lot of what most users do on
a PC. It can read and write Word and Excel docs. You can check email, browse
the web, and even make calls. Yet its absurd to say that the Treo 700 is
virtually a PC replacement.

The thing that is interesting about PCs is the long tail. Its not that there
are just four things that everyone does (word processing, email, web,
pictures). Its that I edit professional quality HD video on my computer and do
app development. He plays first person shooters. They use it for their LOB
app. He uses it for their video kiosk app. She uses it to access and
distribute business intelligence dashboards. He uses it to do photo editing.
They use it to monitor various sensors that are hooked up.

And the comfort thing which you dismiss is pretty darn important too. The
Windows 7 slates can do EVERYTHING a PC does. It just does most of them a LOT
worse. Simply doing things isn't really the same as "doing things".

But if you're happy with your iPad, more power to you. I'll wait to the 7"
comes out and I'll use it largely as an ebook reader. It just doesn't do what
I need it to do, and it doesn't do what virtually anyone I know needs a laptop
to do. But clearly there are some people who exist for which their computing
needs are sufficiently satisfied by such a device.

~~~
roc
> _"It just doesn't do what I need it to do"_

Yet you're trying to use your personal needs to counter claims about whether
the bulk of average, non-technical people, are going to run into roadblocks.

> _"Simply doing things isn't really the same as "doing things""_

Clearly, you need to try one out. The iPad is orders of magnitude more useful
and effective than Windows slates.

e.g. both _can_ do photo editing and no-one's going to ask either to run
photoshop, but regular people will get _far_ more done, _far_ more easily,
with an iPad.

It not only _does_ these things, it does them _usably well_.

As to your list: 1\. Printing (unfortunately) will happen shortly.

2\. USB keys are a notable bummer, but like with Flash, USB is a means to an
end. It's horribly popular, so it _is_ a pain point, but how often are regular
people swapping USB sticks? In my experience, when you get an iOS device, you
get a dropbox account shortly after. (Yes, even my mother. She loves Dropbox.)

3\. _People_ don't connect to domains.

4\. Yeah, it connects to cameras.

5\. Do people ask every device to _host_ all of their media content? Most
iPods aren't holding _all_ of their owner's media. Most netbooks aren't
holding _all_ of their owner's media. That's never been much of a barrier. As
long as a considerable swath can be held locally and the rest is accessible,
regular people apparently couldn't care less.

~~~
kenjackson
I love how you change the argument. But in any case.

First, I have tried one. In fact I owned one. If you go back far enough in HN
I even talk about it. I generally liked it, but found it too heavy. I'm
waiting for the 7" version. With that said, I don't think it can do most of
what a PC can do, but I don't think that's its goal either.

And I never claimed that a Win7 slate is more effective than the iPad. In fact
it was you who claimed that effectivness wasn't the metric being discussed,
but purely capability. 1) So printing isn't there.

2) OK, so now an alternative is something that is slower, requires an account,
and only really works at all with an internet connection.

3) I'm not even sure what that means. There are probably more AD users than
there are owneers of all iOS devices combined. Certainly at least iPads. If
you use your PC for work there is a very good chance your on a domain.

5) This isn't about "every device".... it's about PCs. Most people don't even
claim netbooks are real PC replacements. They're meant to be a portable
secondary device. No one I know has a netbook as their primary box.

It just seems that many iPad owners contort themselves into pretzels to prove
that the iPad is more powerful than any other device at any price point ever
conceived. It's simply not. I realize you iPad may have fixed your paralysis,
but you still can't print from it.

~~~
roc
> _"I love how you change the argument"_

I think I've been fairly consistent in defending the core statement. You're
the one who appears to be consistently misunderstanding the statements you
take issue with.

To wit: > _"I don't think it can do most of what a PC can do,"_

No one claimed anything remotely close to that. What was said was: of the
things that most PC users _do_ , most of it _can be done_ on an iPad.
(implicitly: usably well; not in that kinda-sorta-technically way that
accompanies talks about windows slates, symbian phones, etc.)

How is it that you can recognize no-one expects netbooks to be PC replacements
and you can dismiss their limitations due position as secondary devices, but
you can't see the same of the iPad? A device that --unlike a netbook-- can't
even be used unless you sync it with a primary PC?

> _"It just seems that many iPad owners contort themselves into pretzels to
> prove that the iPad is more powerful than any other device at any price
> point ever conceived."_

Again: No-one said anything remotely close to that in the article or in this
thread.

~~~
kenjackson
Here's the quote again: "there's not much that most PC users actually do with
their PC that they couldn't do with an iPad"

I've listed several things. What exactly is "not much" and what are "most PC
users", I don't know. I've listed several things that a lot of PC users do.

I've given concrete things like Flash (or Silverlight). Not sure if there is
JVM for it, but there's certainly no CLR. Of course these get dismissed as not
being important.

Hardcore gaming. Apparently a niche industry now. It's an industry big enough
to help drive PC sales, but apparently a blip for iPads.

Side-loading, USB keys, printing -- mere inconveniences, as minor as missing a
mute button.

Didn't even mention things like watch DVDs or CDs, but that's old technology
right? What about BluRay? Streaming over iTunes is the way better solution
anyways.

Burning CDs/DVDs? Why would you do that when you can just put stuff on
DropBox?

And then less concrete things like workflow difficulty. Such as the current
browser tabs being ridiculously slow, and the fact that one can't have a
spreadsheet calculating in the background while reading a report. Because
clearly unless you do things the way Apple prescribed, you're doing it wrong.

The iPad doesn't fit this quote: "there's not much that most PC users actually
do with their PC that they couldn't do with an iPad".

A FAR better quote is, "The iPad does somethings your PC does, but some things
it doesn't do. OTOH, some experiences are better on the iPad. It's a different
kind of device".

~~~
roc
I think both quotes work perfectly well. I'm not reading into the first
whatever it is you think the second avoids.

"much" I personally quantify on the basis of "things a normal user does at
least weekly". If half the things a normal user does weekly can't be
reasonably done on the iPad, that's 'much'. If we're down to one or two
things, that's not much.

"most PC users" I personally define as the people who are primarily concerned
with outcomes as opposed to technologies. The kind who don't care whether a
device does or doesn't 'do' Flash; they only care when a site they visit
doesn't do the things they want it to do.

To approximate 'much' and 'most PC users', try this: Suppose you're on
vacation for a week. You take the iPad with you to the lounge for happy hour
and leave the laptop in the room.

(You're on vacation to get away from the corporate concerns that normal users
don't have. You're in the lounge to give us a threshold to determine if an
outcome is realistically feasible or not.)

How many things might you want to do during a week of happy hours, where you'd
rather go back to your room to use the laptop, rather than just use the iPad?

i.e. If you'd rather go up to use the laptop, then the iPad's capability is
moot, because it's too onerous even if it exists. And if the better interface
isn't worth the five minute walk, then the iPad 'can' do that task, even if
not ideally.

Crunching that spreadsheet might be less annoying if you could browse during
the process, but if the wait is only a minute or two, you'd probably just
grumble about the lack of backgrounding and stay where you were.

A more serious spreadsheet might be worth the walk. But how often would those
come up?

Similarly, you might want some files that are on a USB key. Now, do you just
take the key upstairs, or can you get those files with an alternative workflow
that is less annoying that going up to the room? (e.g. downloading the files
directly to the iPad if they're on a server. Or emailing the person who gave
you the key and asking them to email a zip file. or otherwise post them.)

If there's a lot of data, or if you keep important stuff on there as a matter
of course, then it's probably easier to just run up to the room.

But how often are you accessing data that's only on a thumb-drive and
inconvenient enough to get another way that you hop on that elevator?

etc.

The workflow problem is, in my mind, a far more serious problem than a lack of
flash or usb mass storage support. It's the unavoidable barrier that prevents
the iPad being remotely arguable as suitable as a primary device for any user.
Until that's addressed --while still not a toy-- the iPad will forever be a
secondary device.

~~~
kenjackson
Your scenario doesn't work for me since I think more people spend time using
computers in the office, rather than while on vacation.

But if I am on vacation, I'm going to the lounge with neither my laptop nor my
iPad. I'm taking the Kindle, because I'm going to deck of the lounge to enjoy
some sun, while I catch up on some books I've neglected for real work over the
past year. I am on vacation, right? :=)

~~~
roc
> _"I think more people spend time using computers in the office, rather than
> while on vacation."_ There you go, you're thinking about the wrong people.
> The iPad, as a consumer product, is aimed at home users. Business users have
> different needs and they absolutely run into more of the iPad's limitations.

The example is set on vacation just to get you into the mindset of a home
user: computing for pleasure, family use.

