
Luxury hotels are being inundated with requests from self-described influencers - prostoalex
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/06/instagram-influencers-are-driving-luxury-hotels-crazy/562679/?single_page=true
======
21
I've seen something which I think is even more interesting.

Second tier influencers (100k followers) paying expensive hotels and private
plane trips of first tier influences (1 mil followers), so that they can
appear on their feeds, and gain new followers.

~~~
fredley
This is straight up Black Mirror (season 3, episode 1: _Nosedive_ ) Obviously
the whole point of that episode was to imagine Instagram in its darkest
future, but it's scary how much of it is becoming real, and separately with
the roll-out of social credit scores in China. Scary stuff.

\---

Hansen: So in terms of quality, you could use a punch up right there. Ideally,
that's up votes from quality people.

Lacie: Quality people?

Hansen: High fours. Impress those up-scale folks, you'll gain velocity on your
arc and there's your boost.

~~~
fraudsyndrome
> the roll-out of social credit scores in China

The thing is, these all aren't enforced by governments, but through social
media and organizations. The popular one sesame credit in China is from the
Alibaba group, not the Chinese government. In the same vein, Instagram is it's
own platform, people can determine how much they think "followers" are worth
and businesses can use their own discretion to decide how much to enforce
their own policies based on others "social credit" or "followers"

~~~
mattigames
Except that if the "social "companies keep growing and merging eventually they
will have more power than governments and if you are not signed up you may as
well don't exist.

~~~
girvo
Which is explored (in a _decent_ but not brilliant way) in the Emma Watson
movie "The Circle". It's ending was somewhat chilling, if a little naff. I
enjoyed it though, and provoked some interesting thoughts, even if it doesn't
dive quite as deep as I'd like into this topic.

------
CamTin
I wonder why the strategy of these "brand personalities" has to be limited to
"luxury" type branding.

For example, could you build a following traveling the country by interstate
in a Fiesta, staying at Motel 6 and eating at Waffle House? It wouldn't cost
Motel 6 and Waffle House almost anything to comp a few waffles and otherwise-
unoccupied rooms as an experiment, if they aren't doing similar things
already.

~~~
orbitingpluto
Pot bellied middle-aged bald white man drives to his Motel 6 in his Ford
Fiesta, crosses the street to a Waffle House, gorges himself on waffles and
syrup, and returns to his hotel room to cry and wonder where it all went
wrong?

Sounds great.

~~~
nothrabannosir
I would create an Instagram account just to follow this guy.

~~~
megy
Obviously you wouldn't or you would have done this already.

~~~
ciupicri
As if Instagram lets you search a pot bellied middle-aged bald white man
travel blogger, especially without creating an account first.

------
futurix
I just want to know who the heck takes recommendations of 'influencers'
seriously? Gullible teens with no money?

~~~
Rjevski
My thoughts exactly.

It seems to me that the target market of these “influencers” is teens with
little to no money that spend hours looking at these “influencers” exactly
because these pictures are as close as they’re gonna get to that luxury
lifestyle.

People who can actually afford this will just go on holidays by themselves
with no thoughts about the “influencers” whatsoever, also because by the time
you can afford such lifestyles you widen up to the obvious commercial intents
of these influencer “recommendations”, making their “review” purpose moot.

In my social circle people who spend days & nights looking and sharing the
influencer pictures can’t actually afford any of that even if they wanted to.
Those that can afford it don’t give a damn about the influencers.

~~~
charlesdm
> People who can actually afford this will just go on holidays by themselves
> with no thoughts about the “influencers” whatsoever, also because by the
> time you can afford such lifestyles you widen up to the obvious commercial
> intents of these influencer “recommendations”, making their “review” purpose
> moot.

Isn't the idea to follow people who, for example, travel to cool places that
you might not have considered?

Perhaps seeing one of those pictures pop up where influencer X spends a while
in a Maldives resort might actually get you interested to go check it out
yourself?

~~~
zaarn
To my knowledge influencers rarely travel to "cool" places. They travel to
family friendly, safe places. And safe in multiple meanings in both "people
are safe here" and "this place is safe for me as influencer since noone will
be offended".

My family used to travel a lot and we went to a lot of family-unsafe places at
times (like in-the-wilderniss campsites in southern africa where you can't
leave the RV because there is snakes and wild animals outside or climbing up
several vulcanoes in iceland and I mean 'climb' not 'walk up a slope')

Those are actually cool places.

~~~
charlesdm
I'm not disagreeing with what you say, because I too think the places you
describe are often cool. However, they're also very much outside of the
comfort zone of most people.

For example, on average I would assume most women prefer a romantic getaway to
the Maldives over climbing a volcano in Iceland. And most people with kids
likely won't be going on a month long roadtrip through Africa or South-
America.

~~~
kchronic8
> For example, on average I would assume most women prefer a romantic getaway
> to the Maldives over climbing a volcano in Iceland. And most people with
> kids likely won't be going on a month long roadtrip through Africa or South-
> America.

Because a romantic getaway is far cheaper than Iceland or Africa. It's not
because it's outside their comfort zone, it's because they can't afford it.
The average woman (or man) can barely take enough vacation days, let alone pay
for it.

------
speby
In almost every field and industry, companies get requests like this go
something along the same lines as mentioned in this post: "Hey, I have access
to XYZ audience and we will be doing event ABC next month. It would be great
to showcase/use your product and share that with the group. Your company and
your product would be front and center for this group of people. All we need
is your product for free."

In the end, all this is is just ad sales: I have alleged access to customers
who want your product but don't know yet. I can share your company or product
w/ them. They trust me. It will influence them to become your customer. Give
me X."

And worse than that, many times those requests come with a price tag on top of
providing the company's product or service for free.

And really it's no surprise given how social media works. Now any "idiot" can
gain a following or an audience over some set of topics, or philosophy, or
style, and gain a following that tunes. I say "idiot" less as a derogatory
thing and more as a "every Joe or Jane" kind of thing who persists and is
focused. Any following of people that tunes into something, anything, can
often be cajoled into seeing or experiencing some mention or ad about an
unrelated thing and that causes some %-age of that group to pay attention and
some %-age of those that pay attention to potentially investigate further and
possibly become paying customers of some company or product they didn't know
about before. Certainly not rocket science and definitely not new.

What we're seeing here is merely a temporary fashion/trend that tends to focus
heavily on luxury hotels and envious-appearing travel experiences.

~~~
davidmurdoch
I still see influencer advertising in a better light than a brand's own ads.

Influencers, especially the more popular ones, help inform consumers about a
product/service/experience.

The _only thing_ an influencer has is their followers and most influencers
really are careful to not advertise products that they don't believe in
themselves.

~~~
mattbierner
I explicitly don’t trust influencers because all they have are their
followers. They often have no credentials or real achievements or original
thoughts, so why should I trust them? Especially given that their entire goal
is to get people to follow and like them?

I see this pattern a lot in coder twitter. The people with big follower counts
that are always tweeting about their amazing coding and love of software
development are not the ones building stuff. Even if their feelings are
genuine, the excessive self promotion is quite ugly and makes me doubt
everything they say. They are not people I want to trust or follow or listen
to

~~~
shostack
Simply put, influencers who don't have credentials or achievements may not be
the right influencers for your business.

Finding people who are well-respected in their space, actively create high-
value content for their audiences, and can find ways to organically share a
brands message are where the real value lies. Combined with trackable
promotions, this can be very effective when executed properly.

------
pentae
Almost all of these 'influencers' have fake followers. If they didn't buy
them, the majority of their followers are auto following bots or people using
bots to auto-follow to get more followers. Working inside this industry it's
remarkable how little reach 99% of these people have.

Who wouldn't want to get luxury hotel stays for free, have brands send you
free stuff, or get paid to promote something? It's an incredible deception and
many are falling for it.

~~~
rwmj
From the article:

> "We have to filter out influencers who have basically bought bots. There's a
> lot of those these days."

------
newfoundglory
Wow, 10% of unsolicited requests are worth looking at? That seems remarkably
high.

~~~
dasil003
I'm guessing most people realize it's ridiculous to even send such requests
when they have 2k followers.

~~~
dalbasal
That would not have been my first guess.

------
sorokod
In "the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy" there is a story about a society
that shipped out all its useless members (hairdressers and telephone
sanitizers) off planet. If Douglas Adams was writing the book now he may have
replaced sanitizers with influencers.

~~~
Animats
_In "the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy" there is a story about a society
that shipped out all its useless members (hairdressers and telephone
sanitizers) off planet._

Stanford is doing that with their new Redwood City "campus", an office park
five miles from the main campus. No professors. No students. No researchers.
No labs. All administrators. _" Stanford units that will have at least some
employees at Stanford Redwood City include Business Affairs; Land, Buildings
and Real Estate; School of Medicine administration; Office of Development;
University Human Resources; University Libraries; Office of the Vice Provost
for Teaching and Learning; and Residential & Dining Enterprises."_

 _" The first phase of construction at Stanford Redwood City will include four
office buildings, indoor and outdoor dining areas and plazas, a child care
center, a glass-atrium fitness center, a parking garage, a landscaped
greenway, a 2.4-acre park and a sustainable central energy facility."_

It's Stanford's version of a luxury center for influencers.

(As a Stanford alum, I consider this embarrassing.)

[1] [https://redwoodcity.stanford.edu/](https://redwoodcity.stanford.edu/)

~~~
shostack
Genuine question--what would make this not embarrassing for you? Is it the
separation from the main campus? How they are segmenting orgs?

~~~
Animats
It's the sheer number of administrators. Stanford has only 1,761 instructional
employees, of which 834 are tenured faculty. The Redwood City facility will
have 2,700 administrative employees in the first phase alone.

~~~
yttrium
Maybe I'm not surprised by this because I work in higher ed, but that ratio of
administrative staff vs faculty is not really anything to write home about. I
work at a top 10 business school, and our staff/teaching ratio is about 5/1,
and at schools like HBS or INSEAD in France, the ratio skews quite a bit
higher.

------
intrasight
I use Instagram and other social media. But I just don't get how this works.
Perhaps someone can give me and others an overview. I only see the posts from
my friends, so how would posts from these "influencers" influence me or
other's like me? Why would I follow some random person I don't even know?
Really, I'm looking for some enlightenment here. I assume that I'm not the
only one.

~~~
0x38B
I'm in the same boat, but what I've found from talking with many people is
that they use Instagram to discover places and get an inside look, with what
they see on Instagram determining whether they go or not. This leads to
reviews on Google like "they run a really good Instagram, but things don't
measure up in-person" (I saw this exact review the other day).

~~~
gm-conspiracy
Ha. I just checked into a Marriott about an hour ago.

In the lobby, there was a giant touchscreen and one of the icons was "social
media".

I tapped it, and it said "Our Instagram account is currently offline."

~~~
coatmatter
I chuckle to myself every time I see a superfluous piece of technology like
this being out of service. Then, I realise the probable reality is that no one
cares. All they care about is that the core business is still operating (for
better or worse).

I've never managed to get free WiFi properly working on a plane or train.

------
marban
_People want an authority to tell them how to value things, and they choose
this authority not based on facts or results, they choose it because it seems
authoritative and familiar._

\-- Michael Burry (The Big Short)

------
kaendfinger
I think this goes along with the (perhaps perceived) increase in self-
centeredness in society.

~~~
mc32
Or just a general idea of mooching off of someone for free for very little in
return. Apparently, it’s a bit of a con with most influencers, but for a
select few who actually do move the dial.

~~~
JetSpiegel
This is the entire advertising industry in a nutshell, and that funds Google.

~~~
cityhomesteader
> and that funds Google.

... and the atlantic and most newspapers, media companies and even this site.
Welcome to the consumer economy where trying to "influence" consumers to
consume is the name of the game.

Advertising is at the heart of everything in our society from technology to
politics to news. We don't even realize it most of the time because it's all
around us like air.

~~~
rland
I think there needs to be some new word for this ill. Advertising is only
necessary because of the breakdown of social trust that comes with fungible
living in this individualized, modern world of ours. I think this nebulous ill
of "advertising" extends far beyond ad tech, ad agencies, and media and right
into the structure of society and the human condition itself.

------
mud_dauber
Maybe I could become a chip industry influencer. Especially if I could wear a
suitably chic factory floor bunny suit.

~~~
BostonEnginerd
#metrology is awesome! #quadruplepatterning #FinFETastic!

I'm really happy that I don't work on consumer products.

------
United857
Every reputable travel publication/blog I know of have strict editorial
policies against accepting freebies/discounts/gifts in exchange for
reviews/coverage.

Those so-called "influencers" aren't really about serving their audience --
they strike me as just a scammy way to travel "for free".

~~~
jrnichols
The "influencers" reek of "I'm young, female, and attractive, and therefore i
am worthy of attention and lavish gifts."

Thing is, it works.

~~~
mayniac
To be fair on them, despite what their instagrams show it is a lot of work. My
girlfriend follows Alexis Ren and showed me her workout routine, it's easily 3
hours a day. Which combined with reaching out to brands, dealing with
advertisers, scheduling, photoshoots etc I could easily see it being a full
time job. Plus the constant dieting on top of all that which I can't remember
the details of, but I know is hugely restrictive: no eating after 5pm and zero
alcohol for example.

For sure a lot of them are pretty low effort and just do it as a side job, but
I don't think it's as simple as just being attractive and I don't think a lot
of them are as entitled as they seem.

~~~
drb91
It seems a lot like managing your own modeling and PR business. I am not by
any means saying that all influencers are attractive (or that it’s the source
of their popularity when they are!) but the line between being an influencer
and an “instagram model” seems very wide and grey.

~~~
coatmatter
It's a term that I only see the media industry using.

It's all cut from the same cloth but at the end of the day, advertising works.

------
merinowool
This is such a downer on holidays, when you want to rest at luxury place, but
some young people ruin it for you with their obnoxious behavior. I hope there
will be hotels that ban such Instagram addicts from premises.

~~~
coatmatter
This was not my experience with my last holiday. But then again, I did not go
for luxury.

------
goatherders
My GF has 18000 followers and gas worked hard for her brand to be meaningful
as an influencer. She isnt just posting a picture sitting next to the pool. As
a result she gets a number of things comped at hotels and restaurants,
sometimes without even asking.

~~~
megy
> sometimes without even asking.

How do they know who she is then?

~~~
qu1mby
I believe a number of brands use software to monitor social channels for
tags/locations related to their brand. This happens, of course, in near
realtime and then it becomes fairly simple to identify them and start
manufacturing instagrammable circumstances - comp'd bottle of wine, pretty
amenities sent up to the room, etc.

------
kylehotchkiss
Make them pay upfront for the hotel and then if they can directly attribute 25
guest stays in the future they can a refund. Problem somewhat solved :)

------
fma
Influencers... Probably the same kind of people who reviews Amazon product for
free and ends their review with "I've written this review with my own unbiased
opinion". We all know it's biased. Thanks but no thanks.

Ironically everyone of those followers wants to travel to that special unknown
destination, only after somebody with one million followers posts about it.

------
paulie_a
The only answer to these people should be "literally, not figuratively, go
fuck yourself"

------
code_duck
This phenomenon is well known among boro glass artists, or artists in general.
Paying with 'exposure'. People frequently contact us on Instagram, asking for
free merchandise, ostensibly to review. If they have 20,000 followers, that
may be worth it... for 50,000, it probably is. Often, however, it someone with
no significant following who therefore has little to offer. Businesses
similarly ask for our time to be donated or traded when we do public
demonstrations, though typically they would pay other entertainers such as
musicians or comedians.

This definitely is not limited to my niche of glass artists. There's a twitter
account about the wider world of people who think artists have vast
advertising budgets and lots of free time:
[https://mobile.twitter.com/forexposure_txt](https://mobile.twitter.com/forexposure_txt)

I think these hotels are in a similar spot - it may be worthwhile advertising,
or it may be a worthless request.

------
cavisne
I really think theres an opportunity for a startup here, some intermediary
between the influencers and the clients (hotels, brands etc).

I think this will be another _huge_ market for facebook when they eventually
solve this. Proper tracking of influencer posts, verification of audience
demographics, filtering out of time wasters would solve a lot of these issues.

~~~
rorykoehler
I've seen multiple successful (ish) startups doing this already

------
empath75
Sounds to me like this is a big opportunity for an intermediary to connect
useful social media influencers with various brands.

~~~
majani
funny thing is, there are also tons of influencer marketplaces and agencies,
it's a space with incredibly low barrier to entry. Thing about the marketplace
is, there is little incentive on either side for the influencers or clients
not to skip over the marketplace altogether after using it for window shopping

~~~
coatmatter
This sounds like Marketing.

------
duckduckno
What hypothetical scenario do you guys think could possibly result in the
termination of this trend? I think it would be interesting to figure out what
could cause social media to die out in the future.

~~~
razzimatazz
I can think of two directions we could go from where we are - perhaps
Authorative Media: a return to the government telling us everything we need to
know? Very dark, but a "government influencer" could still work..

And perhaps more positive - Truthful Media: Information generated by people,
in the 'open source' way that you can fully trust. Hard to believe, but almost
necessary. A blockchain of real information sources and trusted information
processors (aka influencers), who give opinions that can be traced back to
facts.

I think that perhaps glamour and fantasy will always win out - reality is
boring and human nature wont get us to choose facts when fantasy gets our
attention much more

~~~
TheBeardKing
Another worse case scenario for the future of social media could be one
outlined in the movie The Circle with Tom Hanks and Emma Watson. Soon, the
"influencers" will be available live, all the time. If you have no job
prospects or useful skills, why not just sell your privacy for brand
promotion?
[https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4287320/](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4287320/)

------
chrshawkes
I personally have 100,000 people following me on YouTube. My daughter at one
point had over 100k people following her on Instagram.

It's much more difficult to get subscribers than followers on Instagram. In
addition, a lot of followers are typically on Instagram just to creep on young
women and provide no monetary value except for just being another creep in
their followers.

Basically, 100k followers on Instagram is a joke and is about equivalent to
25k subscribers on YouTube, only it earns less cash.

------
timmytwotime
I have never had the self-{confidence,absorption,righteousness,worth} to think
that I could "influence" people in such a way.

------
not_a_moth
"Influencer". From browsing the influencers in the article, the formula
appears to be a) expensive clothes b) expensive hotels c) trailing
photographer, d) regurgitation of corny "I am so cool" lines like "It takes
cool people to do epic shit", "No one here gives a fuck".

Do you think we could design an AI, maybe GANs and caption generation, to
generate influencers like these? The hotels could pay the AI makers to use
their images, and would solve their problem of actually having to host them.

~~~
Ayraa
Believe it or not, really realistic looking computer generated Instagram
influencers already exist.

Example:
[https://www.instagram.com/lilmiquela/](https://www.instagram.com/lilmiquela/)
\- 1.2m followers

~~~
s0rce
Does this account have followers because its computer generated or in spite of
that. Seems like the former.

------
bonestamp2
> "The vast majority of cold-call approaches are really badly written"

I think he means, "poorly written".

~~~
ascorbic
Badly and poorly are synonyms.

~~~
bonestamp2
Yes, of course. However, "badly written" is poor grammar.

~~~
ascorbic
No it's not. They're equally correct.

------
newnewpdro
By the time we pivot to EVs the travel industry will be sure to prevent any
dip in CO2 emissions thanks to social media and its hoardes of mindless
consumers.

