
Married to someone with anxiety - throwaway309
https://psiloveyou.xyz/married-to-someone-with-anxiety-d5bab822ba2d
======
physcab
Thank you for writing this. When people talk about these issues it becomes
easier and more acceptable to society and it helps lessen anxiety stigmas.

As someone who suffers from anxiety and who regularly seeks therapy, I can say
that the rituals that have helped me are:

\- Realizing that anxiety isn't who you are, but more like a disturbance that
will pass

\- Eating, sleeping, exercising, and practicing mindfulness go a long way

\- Knowing and dealing with the physiological reactions helps. Realizing that
anxiety is a fight or flight response and is often based on fears of the
future, which causes heart to race and breath to shorten. Therefore, simply
forcing yourself to take large breaths and being mindful about the state of
your body helps bring you back to the present and not let your mind get into
"rabbit holes"

One piece of advice I have for you is to not take on the role of mental health
professional in your relationship. This isn't your problem and you can quickly
tire yourself out. All you have to do to support is help your wife accept her
current state, and help remind her of living in the present. If her condition
is severe enough, encourage her to see a psychiatrist in addition to a
therapist too. It may help greatly.

~~~
dominotw
>One piece of advice I have for you is to not take on the role of mental
health professional in your relationship. This isn't your problem and you can
quickly tire yourself out.

This is precisely the opposite of what happened in the post in question. Cause
of anxiety was wanting to live a lifestyle and not wanting to work a stressful
job. Marriage and "permission" to quit solved the issue immediately. None of
the therapy stuff did them any good, she didn't need therapy as soon as the
underlying problem was identified and solved by them. No amount of sleeping,
exercising or eating kale would have solved that.

~~~
michaelkeenan
I get a different impression from the post. Rather than quitting and marriage
solving the problem immediately, I think she still has anxiety, because he
wrote: "She still has anxiety, and I imagine she always will. But we are able
to deal with this in a much more productive way. Sure, there are times where
it all gets a bit too much"

I don't think it's correct to say "None of the therapy stuff did them any
good" because therapy isn't mentioned in the post. If you meant counseling, he
mentioned that positively, in the context of the useful decision to quit the
job: "we found a private counsellor who could help get to the route of what
was causing some of this anxiety — we then discussed a lot of these sessions
and reflected on them and tried to put into practice some of the advice we
were receiving. We also made big and brave decisions like my wife quitting her
exhausting job up in London"

~~~
dominotw
>She still has anxiety, and I imagine she always will.

Wouldn't it be strange for a human being to have no anxiety ?

>we found a private counsellor who could help get to the route of what was
causing some of this anxiety

I understood this as the counsellor putting a rubber stamp on what they
already knew, so that the decision could be made guilt free.

~~~
skybrian
Feeling anxious sometimes and suffering from anxiety attacks are different
things. Most people (I assume) don't suffer from anxiety attacks like
described here. The people who do get anxiety attacks would like it to stop.

------
valuablevalve
After a 10 year fight induced from stress, I can positively say that I'm free
from it, just reading a page like this would have floored me 5 years ago.

Some stuff I learned:

\- Stop* with coffee, for some reason tea does not the same thing to my body,
coffee is like gasoline on the anxiety fire, I cant stress this point enough.

\- Stop* with nicotine, (almost) same as coffee

\- Stop* drinking, you need to stay strong 7 days a week to get out of it

\- Start walking, at least 8km during weekdays day, in brisk pace, you should
have to take a shower after. After each walk, do a workout, pushups, chins
etc. Make this a priority, and dont walk when its dark outside, you need the
sunlight.

\- In the beginning, avoid everything stressful, its not hiding, its waiting
until strong enough

\- Stoicism contains allot of valuable lessons for us, its where CBT came from
after all.

\- If you come out on this like me on the right side (I hope), and your loved
one is still by your side, remember that !

All the best !

*) To stop with something like "drinking" and coffee, it seems hard and rash, but it really helps, and dont make the mistake to once in a while break the rule, its much easier to stick to the rule if there are zero exceptions, less inner conversation, less guilt, more pride.

~~~
freehunter
>Start walking, at least 8km... dont walk when its dark outside, you need the
sunlight.

An 8km walk at a brisk walking pace is a little under an hour and a half
(average 10k running times is about an hour). I get out of work at 5pm, and
it's officially dark by 5:30pm. I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but
this one is literally impossible for anyone in the northern latitudes (New
York, Chicago, Seattle, London, Berlin, Hong Kong, even San Fransisco is
officially dark before 6pm this time of year).

Instead, I'd suggest focusing on taking vitamin D supplements if you don't
have a lot of sun then taking a vigorous walk whenever you can. You don't need
one more thing to be anxious about!

~~~
douche
You can do it in the morning without too much trouble, if you can drag
yourself out of bed. I get up around 6, and walk my dog 3-4 miles every
morning between 6:30-7:30. This is a bit north of Boston, and it's already
getting dark by 4:30 PM now, so afternoons are out. Whee, daylight savings
time!

~~~
nommm-nommm
... unless you have to be to work at 7 like me.

------
soared
> a 4 hour commute (both ways)

What the fuck is this person doing and why do they think its okay? According
to that paragraph she's home at 8pm. She leaves for work at 4am. That leaves 8
hours total to eat, sleep, and live your life.

He just brushes over that until later when she casually leaves her job (for no
reason given). C'mon guy.. that was the root of the problem!

~~~
drdeadringer
I had a 1.5h commute both ways and _that_ caused me anxiety problems.

~~~
tmalsburg2
Yes, there is research showing that long commutes are associated with
depression. Don't have the reference anymore but it shouldn't be difficult to
find on Google Scholar.

------
b1tr0t
OK - I'll bite. I haven't seen anyone mention medications here but personally
I use propranolol.

Life. Changing.

For the first while I took it every day as prescribed for my ET. 20mg. And as
I experienced the first pill (effects kick in about 40 minutes after), I had
this realization "wait a minute, this is what it must feel like to be a normal
person"! That light bulb in itself was incredible. Before that, I hadn't
realized life could feel that good. I'd always wondered how people could do
the things they could do ... and suddenly I didn't just realize but got to
experience what it was like to be someone who DIDN'T have constant anxiety.

I cut back my dosage looking for minimum effective dose. Most days for me it's
0 (that's right, I don't take anymore on most days). My anxiety level has
decreased because now I know -what it feels like not to be anxious-, plus, if
I do feel anxious I have a solution at hand which lowers anxiety.

For a particularly stressful day I might take 5mg. (For me now a particularly
stressful day means standing in front of a room of hundreds of people and
presenting after 2 hours sleep.) At these infrequent low dosages, I don't
experience any negative side-effects.

Worth sharing general personal details. I'm a 37 year old male in reasonably
good health, I exercise vigorously twice a week and get a healthy amount of
walking and biking in almost every day. I discovered propranolol by accident -
it was prescribed for an essential tremor (ET), it was only after that I
discovered the "off-label" anti-anxiety side-effects of beta blockers.

It's worth mentioning that I did experience negative side-effects when I was
taking 20mg daily. If you can avoid taking it daily, that's going to be better
for you in the long run.

* Reduced sex drive * Life just seems more "flat" I don't laugh as much, get as giddy. My partner described me as seeming "disconnected". * Cold limbs & numb tongue

~~~
NumberCruncher
>> * Reduced sex drive * Life just seems more "flat" I don't laugh as much,
get as giddy. My partner described me as seeming "disconnected".

Propranolol - like other drugs - changes your personality and makes an other
person out of you. Replacing you through "Propranolol you" is not a real
solution.

~~~
jeffnv
Easy to say for someone that doesn't rely on beta blockers. Take it from
someone that does: 'beta blockers me' is the one I want to be forever.

------
JohnBooty
When your partner has anxiety, every problem you have now becomes two
problems.

Because when you have a problem (work, health, whatever) you now either have
to

(1) figure out how to tell your partner without causing a meltdown (which will
probably fail no matter what you do) or...

(2) just keep it to yourself (obviously unhealthy)

So that sucks. You have to partially mitigate it by reducing your partner's
overall stress levels. And also learning how to communicate while tiptoeing
through the fucking minefield of their emotions without getting your legs
blown off. (Except the mines are _moving_ so, good luck with that)

It's not their fault, they didn't choose this. You did.

~~~
josefdlange
The last line is the important one.

> It's not their fault, they didn't choose this. You did.

That's exactly right. You chose it. You chose to be a partner to that person.
In the case of marriage, typically that means "in sickness and in health" and
so you either step up to the plate and be the support they need, or you
realize your mistake and move on before it destroys both of you.

That's the positive (yet realistic) take on what you're saying here, which I
hope is your intent.

I'm a little bothered by your characterization of partnership with someone
with a mental health condition as "...tiptoeing through the fucking minefield
of their emotions..."

Mental health issues are not emotions. They may interplay to a degree, but do
not mistake clinical anxiety or depression for someone being excessively
emotional. It is a medical disorder of the brain that causes it to
malfunction. My ending statement is a bit hyperbolic, but not really:
dismissing a mental health disorder as emotions is how people end up dead.

~~~
JohnBooty
I don't think we're saying anything different, really.

> Mental health issues are not emotions. They may interplay to a degree

Bit of an understatement in many cases, eh? "Interplay to a degree?" No, when
it comes to anxiety, the emotion we call "anxiety" is just by definition the
primary symptom.

Yeah, they "interplay to a degree" just like 3rd degree burns and having your
skin slough off "interplay to a degree."

Nonetheless, your point is correct and vital.

Mental health issues can absolutely not be dismissed. There are deep seated
physical and/or behavorial reasons for these problems.

They are every bit as real as breaking one's arm or one's spine, and mental
health issues are in some ways much tougher to handle because they are
"invisible." At least when you have a broken leg, nobody asks you to run a
marathon.

------
Gruselbauer
As somebody who overcame a different but similarly awful mental illness
(addiction to strong opiates, mainly heroin and opium), I can't even begin to
pretend I understand what people with anxiety issues are going through. But I
know I've been at a point where I thought I would just pack it in, just go
into a forest in winter and freeze to death. Didn't obviously and am
unbelievably glad I didn't.

You know the generic tips. Get help, believe in change, keep trying. I'm not
sure I want to reiterate that because none of these things were what helped
me. It was a close friend, somebody I can genuinely say saved my life. And
there's what imagine to be the worst problem with generalized anxiety: not
easily being able to ask others for help.

Believe me, it wasn't easy for me either. But if social interaction scares
you, if going out of the door is an impossibility? Man, I have no idea
whatsoever how that could be improved.

Still, and this is vital, giving up for good is never the answer. I was
jamming two grams of morphine per day into my veins five years ago, barely
still literate and pretty much waiting for death. Back to working, back to a
social and romantic life, back to... feeling good. Sober. And I'm neither
stronger nor cleverer nor better than anyone else, not by a long shot.

------
benmarks
Anxiety disorder just sucks, because there's no way to rationalize it or the
depression that often engenders.

It's fortunate that this couple were able to figure out what was happening and
can now talk about this openly. Normalizing the open discussion of mental
illness is key to helping so many people who currently suffer in silence.

There is a nonprofit initiative in the tech world which encourages open
discussion for this purpose: _Open Sourcing Mental Illness [1]._ I've been
privileged to share my story of Generalized Anxiety Disorder with tech
audiences in the run-up to this being launched, and I've heard so many
humbling stories from others. It is having a positive impact, and I hope
others will see the initiative or the presentations and feel that they can
discuss what's happening with them or make it clear that others should feel
okay to talk about their experiences.

Above all: if you are in pain, in worry, in doubt, etc., please reach out for
help. The difference between silent suffering and a life enjoyed can start
there.

[1]: [https://osmihelp.org/](https://osmihelp.org/)

~~~
don_draper
You said there's no way to rationalize it, but it depends on the person. For
some becoming more mindful allows you to see bad mental habits that may
contribute to the anxiety. Once you are mindful of these you are empowered to
change them.

------
manmal
There might be something that you can do - probiotics. There has been research
that the microbiome is at least somehow linked to anxiety [1].

Not just any probiotic - there's a lot of unresearched crap being sold, some
even dangerous (e.g. some soil based organisms can become opportunistic). I
can recommend L. Plantarum 299v (this strain reportedly does not produce
d-lactic acid, which is really desirable, as probiotic use could lead to
acidosis [2], [3]), E. Coli Nissle 1917, and maybe a well researched soil-
based mix (Prescript Assist maybe, they claim that it's the best researched
probiotic in its class). Testing your biome at ubiome could provide you with
info on what is missing, or what group of organisms is underrepresented. I
haven't tried that yet though.

Sorry for not providing links to studies for all my claims, as I'm not at
home, but all that should be easy to back up by searching at pubmed.

[1]:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23384445/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23384445/)

[2]: [https://med.virginia.edu/ginutrition/wp-
content/uploads/site...](https://med.virginia.edu/ginutrition/wp-
content/uploads/sites/199/2014/06/Parrish-September-15.pdf)

[3]:
[http://hkjpaed.org/pdf/2006%3B11%3B246-254.pdf](http://hkjpaed.org/pdf/2006%3B11%3B246-254.pdf)

Update: Added another link. Why the downvote?

~~~
benrjackson
I suspect you have been downvoted because some people may perceive your answer
as a glib trivialization of a debilitating condition ('just pop a few
probiotics and everything will be ok').

However, I have upvoted you because I agree that probiotics can play a part in
coping with anxiety for some people.

I have experienced anxiety attacks for the last several years (including
several full on panic attacks). For several years before the onset of the
anxiety episodes I have also had IBS like symptoms (which continue to this
day). I have noticed a clear link between the two (anxiety accompanied by
nausea and frequent trips to the toilet). I could go into the disgusting
detail but I won't.

To cut a long story short, I have found that consumption of high dose
probiotics containing B longum has corresponded with a decline in sympton
severity & frequency [1]. I am not suggesting that this is a _cure_ (or that
it will help all anxiety sufferers). Other things that help are reductions in
caffeine & alcohol intake, increased exercise (the more extreme the better)
and acceptance of the physiological symptoms of anxiety - it is easy to think
that heart palpatations etc caused by anxiety are a result of genuine
physiolgical issues (which in turn causes more anxiety).

[1]
[https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Lalonde/publicat...](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Lalonde/publication/47543461_Assessment_of_psychotropic-
like_properties_of_a_probiotic_formulation_\(Lactobacillus_helveticus_R0052_and_Bifidobacterium_longum_R0175\)_in_rats_and_human_subjects/links/00b7d52d5876418c0f000000.pdf)

------
shams93
It's actually unfortunately normal and healthy to have extreme anxiety when
you have no workers rights and its hard to replace a job. As working people we
are forced to live with unprecedented levels of uncertainty. Life can be
extremely punishing, I've seen both the mediocre and the extremely talented
crushed beneath the wheels of the system sometimes seemingly at random. Abuse
if the h1b creates artificial shortages of work to leverage wages down and
hours up. It's not unusual to get used more and more as short term temporary
labor the more experienced and capable you get. Other professions like
teaching college pay poverty wages that cannot support a family. So much of
the dignity of work has been annihilated to make things better for
billionaires.

~~~
witty_username
Most billionaires make most of their money through stocks, so why not invest
in those companies and make good money [if things are becoming better for
billionaires].

------
benibela
I have holes in a few of my clothes.

Today I went to a shop selling needles/yarn/wool/.., so I could fix them. I
arrived at the shop, was too anxious to enter and left again.

Guess the holes will have to stay.

~~~
sp00ls
I have done something similar. Go to the mall because I need clothes, walk in
the door, do a lap around the store, walk out and go home. I know it is
ridiculous but in my head it just feels like everyone is watching me, judging
me based on what I am looking at. So I just don't even look at anything. I
know that isn't true when I'm sitting at home but the second I arrive the
anxiety kicks into high gear. It is very frustrating sometimes. I've noticed
that I don't seem to get so anxious when grocery shopping or shopping for
something I know a little about. Clothing is just so out of my element that I
feel like a fool and have a hard time relaxing.

~~~
afro88
It gets easier. But unfortunately it's not just a matter of putting yourself
in the situations more (you'll just get accustomed to how you feel so it won't
get you down as much, but you'll still feel anxious and leave).

2 things helped me a lot: mindfulness (I read "A New Earth", YMMV) and the
book "Learned Optimism". I can't recommend that book enough. Doesn't sound
like it has anything to do with anxiety, but it really does. Anxiety can come
from a pessimistic outlook - the stories you make up for the things that go on
around you that you don't have all the information on. For example, you say
"it just feels like everyone is watching me". This most likely triggers
thoughts like "everyone thinks I'm uncool" or "I must look so out of place" or
"I'm so unattractive" etc. which makes you anxious about staying there, so you
leave. And there begins the spiral or rabbit hole to debilitating anxiety,
depression or feelings of worthlessness.

"Learned Optimism" is all about changing the stories you tell yourself about
these situations, to nip those thoughts in the bud. There's a definite pattern
to them, and it can be broken quite easily. I won't do it justice to try and
explain it here, it's really best to read the book from the start and let it
do the talking. Oh and check out this out:
[https://github.com/raganwald/presentations/blob/master/optim...](https://github.com/raganwald/presentations/blob/master/optimism.md)

~~~
sp00ls
I think you hit the nail on the head about the outlook and made up stories
stuff. Those do sound almost exactly like what I experience. Thank you for the
comment, I'll check out the suggestions you made.

------
dominotw
>We also made big and brave decisions like my wife quitting her exhausting job
up in London and her retraining to work with young people in a college
environment — stressful, but local.

Looks like now that guy is mainly responsible for all the stress and anxiety
of mortgage and family finances. Brave decision indeed, at least form his
side, hope he doesn't catch that horrible illness too.

There is some evidence that women are quitting due to high stress environment
of modern workplaces[1]. Given this instantly solved the issue in this
particular case, safe to assume it was the root cause of anxiety , and that's
what "solved" it, not talking, therapy and all the other stuff.

>We also got a cat.

I strongly recommend this also. Cats will show you how to chill, how to find
that sunspot and enjoy life. They will instantly de-stress you with their
chill vibe.

Edit: de-stress != distress.

1\. [http://www.mckinsey.com/business-
functions/organization/our-...](http://www.mckinsey.com/business-
functions/organization/our-insights/unlocking-the-full-potential-of-women-at-
work)

~~~
throwaway-hn123
> Brave decision indeed, at least form his side, hope he doesn't catch that
> horrible illness too.

Why is it a brave decision? Do you actually think anxiety disorder is an
infectious disease?

~~~
extra88
Do you think anxiety disorder is genetic and can't be acquired from one's
circumstances and environment, an environment that includes someone
demonstrating how to be anxious?

~~~
graycat
So, you are addressing the old, often challenging issue of separating nature
and nurture.

Well, suppose a mother has genetic anxiety disease and consider her daughter:
Then the daughter likely has anxiety disease from both nature and nurture,
that is, from both her mother's genes and her mother's behavior.

E.g., both the mother and daughter can have social phobia and, then, commonly,
when planning the social aspects of a trip to the grocery store have her brain
burn glucose at a faster rate than anyone has yet thinking about, say, general
relativity or P = NP. E.g., when making salad dressing, don't use wine vinegar
because _wine_ on the label that might generate rumors in the community,
school board, and church that the woman is an alcoholic -- it wish that was a
joke or exaggeration, but it wasn't .

------
mrcarlosrendon
Thanks for sharing. I think its important to discuss mental health issues
openly. They have a huge impact on our lives and are quite common (NAMI says 1
in 5), yet we tend as a society to shy away from talking about it and tend to
have strange beliefs (they are just a negative person, they should just get
over it, their thoughts will be contagious). I think many people never get the
help they need because they aren't aware that help even exists.

~~~
brookside
But a depressed person often is a negative person, and moods can spread. Think
about working for a boss who is miserable and passes that feeling down onto
people who work for her. If that boss goes to to a psychiatrist/therapist
because she is having trouble getting along with the people in her life, that
psychiatrist/therapist will likely say she depressed, never diagnose her as
being a "negative person" which is also a true assessment, and how people
working with her would describe her.

I'm happy to be open about mental health issues. I have had enough negative
experiences with, and read broadly enough about the theory behind
psychotherapy to have come to my own conclusion that it makes about as sense
as most dogmatic religions (very little).

~~~
Sgt_Apone
>But a depressed person often is a negative person, and moods can spread.

That's pretty stereotypical. The happiest people on the outside can hide some
pretty dark clouds on the inside; especially in a work environment where
outward appearances are important. In fact, I would suggest that the majority
that are depressed don't show any outwards signs to working colleagues.

~~~
washadjeffmad
I'm in the Robin Williams category of depressives. I know how desperate and
tiring it is fighting off those causeless bouts, and so I try to make life as
enriching as I can for people around me.

It's my way of compensating for every relentless, hammering, baseless urge to
die that I've survived alone over the years. It took a long time for me to get
that people don't typically understand that it's more like hiding that you
have cancer than not being able to cheer up. You can hide the symptoms of
both, you don't ask for either of them, and they might both kill you, but
somehow you're responsible when you get depression but not cancer.

~~~
brookside
We can be responsible for our depressions though. The CBT paradigm is that
thoughts cause emotions, and if we change our thoughts (which we can have
control over) our mood will shift. So there is some self-determination, I
don't think the typical comparison with cancer is a good one. (Obviously you
can give yourself cancer with behaviors like smoking, but once you have cancer
you have little internal control to make it go away. Not so with depression.)

------
Ended
> More evenings with no sleep, coupled with a 4 hour commute (both ways) means
> she is exhausted.

This stood out to me - I cannot imagine the detrimental effect that 8 hours
commuting per day has on one's mental health. I'm glad she was able to change
jobs.

~~~
gerardnll
That would be impossible. I understood 4h total.

~~~
mschuster91
Oh, there are people forced to endure such commutes. For what it's worth, some
school and university mates had 2-hour-plus one-way commutes.

Now add in the usual stuff like people throwing themselves in front of a train
(happened quite often to those whose train passed by a mental health
institution), random technology breakdowns (some parts of Munich S-Bahn
operate on a single rail for both directions, it gets nasty when something
happens), cops/paramedics attending to people on the train, idiots blocking
the train doors and causing delays, car drivers too stupid to see the tramway
approaching (and only waking up once the tram crashes into their car, blocking
the single tram to the university)... the delay record, I believe, was
something like six hours total what should have been 2,5h.

And those affected most by long commutes and the "random" (aka daily) service
interruptions usually were those with not as much money as the rest - because
living as a student in Munich is expensive as ... and many poorer students had
to live in the hinterland of Munich with a bus driving only 4x a day or not at
all, and because it's easy to hail a cab and say "ok, f..k that delay, I'm
getting out, here's 50€ to get me to university" if you have the money.

------
jschwartzi
It's worth noting that if you have anxiety around starting therapy, as I did,
that many therapists can be contacted via email. In the US, there are trade
publications like Psychology Today and trade groups like the American
Psychological Association that maintain lists of practicing therapists.

Often the hardest step is the first one. If your anxiety is anything like mine
is you may not even realize you have a problem. My anxiety has robbed me of so
many opportunities, that I often wish I had started therapy in my twenties. It
took me months of goading myself before I contacted anyone about it.

I'm glad I did.

------
kafkaesq
Keep in mind that chronic anxiety is often the flip side of other, highly
positive traits -- like empathy; the capacity to be deeply committed to others
and one's goals; and self-knowledge, generally -- which many seemingly
"relaxed, self-assured" people sorely lack.

------
11thEarlOfMar
A lifetime of anxiety usually results in the sufferer developing a set of
coping mechanisms that are typically not healthy, and can include drug use,
raging, cutting, seclusion, social restriction or other self-harm.

One possible line of therapy is Dielectical Behavior Therapy[1], which works
to teach the sufferer to re-cast their emotional responses to daily events,
see them more objectively and find healthy coping methods.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_behavior_therapy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_behavior_therapy)

------
everyone
Social anxiety seems to be really common for anxious people. I'm quite
anxious, but I have no social anxiety. I have medical anxiety, like
hypochondria. I was able to fix this by being really logical about it. Ie. if
I was anxious I was having a stroke or something I would list the symptoms
(fainting, paralysis, blurred vision, extreme nausea etc.) and tick off the
ones I had (I invariably didnt have any of them, so I determined I was fine)

~~~
graycat
Fine, except when you do actually get some symptoms for some serious medical
problem, it gets important to get to an appropriate physician who usually,
easily can do a much more accurate diagnosis.

E.g., as a child I had middle ear infections from congestion. So, recently I
had some congestion and wondered if I was on the way to an ear infection.
Okay, on a visit to a general practice physician for something else, I
mentioned the ear issue, and right away the physician (A) too my temperature
and (B) looked into my ear. Fast diagnosis: I was fine.

And an appropriate physician has a huge list of much more powerful diagnostic
tests.

Net: If you have some symptoms at the level of loss of sleep, lack of
appetite, tired feeling, sore joint, etc., don't worry and, instead, go to an
appropriate physician and get checked out.

If you still worry, then take notes with dates and continue monitoring and
checking until get some resolution. The continuing notes may help you and/or
the physician.

------
tixocloud
Thanks for sharing. I think it's so important that this gets surfaced.

Having dialogue is probably the best way to help someone going through
anxiety. A lot of times, they just need someone to listen and to support them
and tell them that it's ok.

------
gargalatas
anxiety == trauma

1\. After 6 months - 1 year it becomes part of you. You can't get any better
without a professional help.

2\. Go find the best psychiatrist (not therapist) your money can buy and trust
him 100%.

3\. Therapy and medicine can make miracles! You can become another person
better than ever! Free from your worst fears forever.

4\. Be patient. Therapy need 2-3 year or even more. But with the appropriate
medicine you can keep your life going.

5\. Medicine made to help people. All the other excuses are bullshit. But
WARNING! Medicine doesn't make you better. It just hides the symptoms. Therapy
will make you better. Therapy will give you the explanation and the self-cure.

6\. No-one EVER EVER died from anxiety. Someday your will just have fun with
all these symptoms. Just trust your doctor.

7\. Read Echart Tolle. Maybe meditation is not the answer but he can teach you
the meaning of life. Mindfulness is a great tool. Learn what you are thinking!

8\. Psychiatry is the only science. The others are just philosophies.

9\. Are you still here? Stop crying for your money and give them to your
doctor! It's really a huge investment. Be absolutely sure that life will give
them back multiplied. Remember that money is the medium.

10\. DONT QUIT YOUR JOB. DONT QUIT ANYTHING. Anxiety == trauma!

Me? After spending 5 years with all the pseudo-cures and pseudo-doctors even
with homeopathy and other crap like this I decided to start with the best
doctor I could find. 2.5 years of a great journey. Feeling great and I am in
the process of quitting therapy.

Keep up, and be strong!

------
woodchuck64
Sometimes anxiety is a symptom of high-functioning autism spectrum. (Note that
anxiety doesn't need to be solely related to social situations in this case
either)
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3809000/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3809000/)

------
rmetzler
I wonder if your wife ever tried medical marijuana? Many people use it to
battle anxiety and in fact anxiety reduction is one of the effects, websites
like Leafly rate cannabis strains in. Cannabis aids sleep, so this might also
be some desired effect for your wife.

Search for anxiety in reddit.com/r/trees and you'll see the amount of people
who think it helps them.

~~~
nozzlegear
I have no doubt that marijuana helps a great many people with their anxiety
issues, but I recommend caution if you've never tried it before. Search for
marijuana/weed in r/anxiety and you'll find many people that think marijuana
made their anxiety worse, or caused it to manifest after a bad session.

As somebody that was diagnosed with a generalized anxiety disorder a couple of
years ago, I've personally never tried it to see what the effect would be for
me. Exercise, being honest about it with my spouse, and a "goal-oriented life"
has been crucial to beating my own anxiety, so much so that it rarely affects
my life anymore. In fact, most days I don't even think about it, which would
have been hard to believe when it was at its worst after first being
diagnosed.

Just to be clear, I'm not against using marijuana at all. If it helps your
anxiety, great! I only write this as someone that frequents r/anxiety and has
witnessed people there writing about both the good and the bad of marijuana.

------
FailMore
Hi All,

I thought I'd share my experience as someone who has been through anxiety and
come through the other side. I was very lucky to have (and still have) a
fantastic therapist to help and teach me.

 _Why we get anxiety:_

I sure know how confusing anxiety can be! It doesn't feel like it comes from
anywhere clear or that it has an obvious purpose... but in fact is is
strangely systematic.

Anxiety does two things (we will explore both in detail); 1) protects you from
something. 2) makes you feel shit and forces you to act on making yourself
feel less shit.

>> 1) Protecting you

Anxiety is one of the mind’s best defense mechanisms. Whatever you experience
anxiety about it nearly always leads to a reduction in action, connection and
conflict with others. It could be that you don’t speak out, get on stage, tell
someone you're pissed off with them, leave your room (as someone in this
thread is having a hard time doing) or go to your friends house for dinner (re
op). Anxiety = not doing things.

Not doing things is a fantastic option if you just want to survive! I’m fairly
sure if I spent the day in my bedroom and had a pizza posted through my
letterbox I would make it through the next 24 hours fairly unscathed, and a
part of me thinks that is a very smart idea. It’s very good to stay alive.

The confusing thing about being an adult with anxiety is that we are
protecting ourselves from things that we don’t need protecting from any more.

 _Being young:_

When you are small (under 10 or so) there are a few big differences from being
an adult.

 _1)_ You really really need to keep big people (parents) around. You are
genuinely very vulnerable when you are little. A five year old is not very
good at making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, it’s extremely important to
have someone (a parent) there to help. A nine year old is not very good at
defending itself vs a 32 year old bodybuilder, a big person (parent) is an
extremely important tool for protection. If they are not there, you really
could die.

 _2)_ You feel like you control / are responsible for more than you are. It is
hard to understand that you are growing up into an imperfect world where,
despite you being good, bad things are happening. It can be common, and often
easier, for a child to feel that the world is good, but it has been bad so bad
things have happened. The child has more control that way.

These two things combined mean that unlucky children teach themselves very
strong and very misguided lessons at at young age. I lost my father at eight
and I certainly did.

There is often a traumatic event - a divorce, violence, a huge argument, a
death - that results in one parent / carer leaving, or almost leaving, the
family hub. As discussed above, the love of the ‘big people’ is genuinely
indispensable to a child. If you don’t have big people love, you probably will
die and death is very scary.

The child finds a way to blame this on itself. It must have done something
wrong for this loss, or almost-loss, to have happened and it must not do it
again! Toe the line. Keep everyone happy. YOU MUST KEEP THEM HAPPY OTHERWISE
YOU COULD DIE. This is a very sensible narrative for a young child that has
been through a trauma.

 _Being older:_

Now that you are older two things have happened.

The first is that, if you’re lucky, you don’t need the help of any big people
to make it through the day. You can make a p&j sandwich on your own! You can
survive loss. It will make you sad but it will not kill you.

The second is that you can be more objective. If you’re parents get divorced
when you are 25 years old, you are more likely to see it is because your dad’s
train watching hobby is just out of hand, rather than it being a reflection on
who you are as a person.

But your anxiety was not taught to you when you were a grown up, it was taught
to you when you were a child - so it makes no sense in the world of an adult.
You don’t need to be (that) scared of pissing someone off as an adult! You
don’t need to be (that) scared of someone you love leaving you as an adult.
You will make it through. But your emotions connect you to the perspective you
had when you were a child - if you piss people off, if someone leave you - you
could die. No wonder you are feeling anxious! I would be (and was) too.

Pissing people off, or having them leave you, or saying something offensive,
or not making EVERYONE happy - can happen quite easily in the adult world. It
can happen at the shop, at work, at a party, in a relationship. These are
normal activities that you probably will survive - but they appear very very
scary to a person with anxiety because these activities are more than what
they are. They are opportunities for the world to fall apart and for you to
maybe die.

>> 2) Anxiety makes you feel shit and makes you do something to try and feel
less shit

As I hope you have learnt so far, the strong feelings of anxiety that one can
have do not come from a very logical (grownup) place. They are beliefs that
were useful when you were young and felt like you were holding the world
together, but don’t make sense any more.

(Note: if your anxiety seems to have popped up from nowhere after years of
being fine, it could be that you have touched an emotional depth that you have
not since you were young. For example, my anxiety flares up when I’m in a
relationship and experiencing strong feelings of connection / love - as a
child might with a parent.)

The whole brain is really a very clever thing. Much cleverer than the bit of
the brain you spend your mind talking to. As odd as it sounds, a part of it
knows that you have a belief that is a little out of place and causing you
problems in your day to day life - and it wants you to fix it.

I’m willing to bet if you have strong feelings of anxiety you are having
frequent, intense, and mostly unpleasant dreams. I’d bet you’ve even had some
recurring dreams. Dreams are another weirdly systematic process which can seem
complex, but not to be discussed today (my email is below if you want a walk
through). These dreams are no meaningless coincidence, they are there to nudge
you towards fixing whatever no-longer-useful belief you have.

Like I said, the whole brain is really very clever and it knows a great way to
make you take notice of something is to cause you immense pain! (Just like it
is useful for a rash to itch, so you see you have it and take care of your
skin.) And just like the synergistic of a bee and a flower (the bee gets the
food, the flower gets its pollen spread), anxiety protects you and, through
its pain, forces you to take a look at yourself.

So that is what’s going on. (Apologies if you feel this is an
oversimplification, but this structure covers the common narrative. I’m sure
there are many cases I’m not dealing with.)

 _How to face anxiety:_

To face it, you need to say - “Hello child brain, I see what you’re doing -
you really are very smart! But today I’m not going to listen to you because I
probably don’t need protecting from whatever you’re trying to prevent. I’ll
probably be ok”

Then you’re child (emotional) brain will say - “WHAT THE FUCK!! WE’RE TOTALLY
GOING TO DIE!!!”

And then you are going to have to use all the courage you can muster to tell
it to shut up and do the thing you are so scared of doing. And see what
happens (your child brain will be watching too) - you’ll probably be fine.
When you’ve done this a few times the child brain will calm down and you’ll
move through this anxiety… onto the next one!

Also, if you can, get a good therapist.

If this was helpful / you want to reach out - please do so at
eichler.summers[at]gmail.com. I’d be interested to hear feedback.

If you are from YC, or a particularly kind rich person / VC and you think
there should be a scalable solution to anxiety, please get in touch. I would
love to start a company in this space. I am a credible (TechCrunch Disrupt
nominated, ex VC) individual who just needs a nudge.

~~~
tixocloud
I am neither from YC or a rich person but I strongly believe in helping people
get over these issues and I am interested in learning more about what you're
thinking about.

For me, I do think that there should be a scalable solution but I also think
that the solution should involve more connectedness with the human side of
people. Something along the lines of building a network of support like AA but
on a grander scale.

~~~
FailMore
Yes - I agree. I think people will always be part of the process of moving
through things. It needs to be included in the thing that scales!

------
homakov
I've been in that position, shaking in my bed not able to sleep for days. Then
I was prescribed many different medications. I ended up doing seroquel and now
I'm trying to tamper off it. However in my situation I still have no idea what
caused my anxiety. I'm unemployed and don't need to work, and everything seems
alright on the surface to me.

------
bendbro
I like how this follows a more pratical approach than other writing about
mental health. Overly emotional mental health literature is a big turn off for
me.

------
mbizzle88
Thank you for this.

------
milesf
I overcame Bipolar Spectrum disorder. This article, and many others like it,
get many things right. Each person is different, and it took me many, many
years to get the right help and many, many different approaches.

I'd like to add another aspect to this discussion that might be misunderstood,
but I'll say it anyway because there are likely others that were in the same
situation I was. I attended a church back in my 20's that turned out to be a
horrible environment for me. Churches are not all the same. They are
multifaceted, not monolithic. I was at this church for 10 years, and the
environment was very emotional. They even had services on Wednesday nights
because of the hype and emotion.

When I became sick, I had pastors pray for me and ask God for healing. When
the months went by and I was not getting better, the not-so-subtle message was
"there must be sin in your life" or that I needed deliverance from some sort
of demonic influence. People stopped visiting. I felt like a social leper. It
was one of the darkest points in my life.

After 7 months of suffering crushing depression, daily anxiety and frequent
panic attacks, I was reduced to working a part-time job and eating only
sandwiches from the gas station next door because I didn't want to be out in
public. I could share the remainder of the story, but the point I want to make
is I got through it.

There are many, many communities of faith out there. Some are fantastic and
very understanding of mental health issues. Others are toxic and horrible. If
you're in a similar situation, I just want to let you know three things: 1)
There is hope 2) Don't give up 3) If you need to make a change (church,
family, friends, etc) do it.

There are many wonderful, loving people in the world who really do care and
REALLY DO understand what you are going through. You really are not alone. I
know how it feels to think you're the only one going through what you are
going through, but the truth is you are not. I still remember being in my
first mental health group of about 10 people and hearing people share their
stories. What a relief it was to know I was not alone! Some of the biggest
laughs I've had in my life have been with other "crazy" people, because we all
know how hard mental illness can be, and how wonderful life can be when things
are simply normal without all the drama.

I'm now married over 16 years, with two children and two very spoiled pugs.
I've also been attending a great church for the last 6 years that is more
balanced, without all the ups and downs emotionally. I've shared my story many
times about overcoming a serious mental illness and will continue to do so.
Mental illness is more cruel than most people will ever realize, so if you
suspect you have something or know you get help, and surround yourself with
positive, encouraging people.

------
thro32
I had to deal with something similar, and I think I would add a few practical
advices (outside of my other advice):

\- if psychotherapy does now work in first 3 months, than problem is somewhere
else

\- check sugar levels, diabetes.. it is often misdiagnosed with psychiatric
problems

\- if she has paralyzing fear, you should talk to good psychiatrist and get
medication. Be careful what motivations he/she has, he might try to sell you
expensive doses for long term.

\- we had good experience with psychiatrist outside US. Most consulting was
over skype

\- MRI, blood test... usual general tests. Anxiety can be result of infection,
head concussion...

\- Phenibut is quick & cheap solution to anxiety and sleep problems. No side
effects, but you develop resistance fast, so it can be used only once a week.
It takes edge-off before proper solution is found.

~~~
RossBencina
> Phenibut [...] No side effects

Severe withdrawal symptoms are not uncommon. Reports are easy to find with
google.

~~~
thro32
Yes. The problem is you go back to zero sleep and anxiety. If you can solve
sleep some other way, there are no withdrawal symptoms.

Problem with this is that it 1) works, 2) resistance is developed fast 3) you
are back to square zero very soon. So it has to be taken in small doses with
long intervals, when anxiety is at its worse.

It is not addictive as other drugs, most countries even sell it without
prescription.

------
thro32
I was married to such person for 8 years. I physically aged 40 years, and I
got gray hair.

My best advice is to get out NOW if you can. Maybe things are working out now,
but you are barely floating. Add normal family life into picture: children,
job loss, some injury, any sort of accident... and you will sink to bottom
faster than a stone.

~~~
arghIdontwantto
Not sure why you are being downvoted. It may seem crass, but it is true. In
the last 6-7 years I seem to have mentally and physically aged twice as much
if not more. WE are still together but honestly, I don't think I can handle
this much more to the point I'm getting depressed as well (suicide thoughts)

~~~
googletazer
Is it worth it? Staying out of "obligation" or "guilt"?

~~~
sankae
I see my wife as "family."

You don't abandon family.

Then again I'm Asian so perhaps our sense of family is different. For example,
we often treat our cousins like siblings.

~~~
nathan_f77
You should never make a blanket statement like "you don't abandon family."
There are many situations where the best (and only) option is to get away.
This includes both your spouse and your family. Abuse is one obvious example.

I'm not saying that we should run away at the first sign of mental health
issues. I just think that there are plenty of situations where it might be the
right decision. It's obvious in extreme cases, but the decision will always be
extremely difficult.

For what it's worth, I think most people view their spouse as "family". It's
hard to imagine a different arrangement.

~~~
nommm-nommm
I agree with you. My parents are very, very toxic people. I still see them a
couple times a year but the best thing I ever did for myself was stop trying
to have any kind relationships with them.

------
yarou
The latest treatment protocols for anxiety seem to have shifted from GABA
receptor agonists to SSRIs and supplements like folic acid[1].

The jury is still out on how effective these treatments are compared to CBT.
I'd be curious about how physicians subjectively feel about prescribing benzos
to their patients.

[1]
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3200167/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3200167/)

------
rublev
Really glad this article was posted.

I have anxiety. No idea what to do about it. I just sit here locked in my
apartment all day, haven't seen anyone in weeks. Moved a friend in next door,
he's extremely loud, now I haven't seen him in weeks either. I just can't. I'm
just an asshole sitting here with headphones on 14 hours a day and then
sleeping completely locked in a prison of my own making. To walk into the
kitchen and potentially hear them fucking or watching TV really loudly in
their bedroom - it _feels_ like what you're feeling is unreasonable, so then
you start feeling guilty, except I can't help any of it. In my head it's like
'good for him! get laid buddy!' but what I feel is pure adrenaline and anger.

Sometimes when I wake up just right after a perfect sleep, hit my routine
properly, get everything done, then I feel great, and can go out, and do
things. But I have to feel extremely great, and it takes so much work to get
there. And it only ever works rarely.

My heart rate is almost constantly 1.5x what it should be, like a consistent
and constant adrenaline rush that no amount of pushups will get rid of. Any
excessive or intrusive sounds sends my adrenaline to the roof and now I have
to focus my energy on calming down to be able to work instead of actually
working.

Very rarely there are small patches of time where there is no anxiety. I liken
those moments to the moments Dostoevsky describes when he's not suffering from
seizures.

The one thing I'm trying to avoid is telling people about it, I don't ever
want to put someone in the position of "listen, my life is harder than yours
because of X condition, so _you_ need to adjust to _me_ ". I think that's
gross. Like my loud friend. It's totally his right to be loud, and it's unfair
to him that someone like me lives next door. But now he has to feel neglected
from my lack of contact, which just brings me more guilt. Then at some point
we're going to have to talk about it, at which point I can either lie to make
him feel better or tell him what's actually up and potentially lower his
quality of life and instill in him a similar amount of anxiety. Then we both
lose. Pity is one of the worst feelings ever and I really don't wish to invite
it into my life.

>All of these things helped but we were not living — we were surviving in a
world where anxiety had taken over.

Exactly, it's just surviving. Dead time, unenjoyed. I am very lucky to have
recently met a girl that takes the time to ask questions and explore and talk
without judgement and assumptions and it's been the most wonderful experience
of my life so far. I've never had that, so initially it was very difficult to
trust. The first few months it was a mental loop of "Why would this person
ever talk to me much less try to help me?". I lucked out huge though.

edit: Wow is what I'm typing really that foreign to some of you? I should
probably look into this more. Thank you everyone who replied and OP for the
article.

~~~
DanBC
> The one thing I'm trying to avoid is telling people about it, I don't ever
> want to put someone in the position of "listen, my life is harder than yours
> because of X condition, so you need to adjust to me". I think that's gross.
> Like my loud friend. It's totally his right to be loud, and it's unfair to
> him that someone like me lives next door

It's good that you're not asking him to adjust to you, but I hope you realise
that _you do not deserve to live like this_ , and that _help might be
available_.

Have you seen a doctor?

There are some physical health checks they'll want to do, and then there are
some mental health options they can talk about with you.

If you were in England you could expect this from the NHS:
[https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg113](https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg113)

Broader information: [https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/conditions-and-
diseases/men...](https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/conditions-and-
diseases/mental-health-and-behavioural-conditions/anxiety)

Anxiety disorders often respond well to treatment.

~~~
0xcde4c3db
> There are some physical health checks they'll want to do

The importance of this step should not be underestimated. Hormonal and
neurological phenomena can have huge effects on mental and emotional
processes. It's socially accepted to joke about hormone-addled teenagers and
"roid rage" (and, not so long ago, PMS), but then we act like the default is
somehow to have no hormones at all, instead of admitting to ourselves that
every one of our brains is marinating in a constantly-fluctuating chemical
soup.

------
douche
Being in a relationship with somebody who has anxiety issues is exhausting. It
just never ends. Well, until it ends...

------
cowardlydragon
"A four hour commute each way"?

~~~
mcormier
No, 4 hours total. 2 hours each way.

------
draw_down
God bless you both but I could never do this. Life is hard enough without your
partner making things that should be easy difficult.

I was with someone like this for years in my 20s and it eventually became
unbearable. At some level, "I have anxiety" starts to feel like an excuse, not
that the person can control it exactly, but we all have the ability to tell
which of the thoughts occur to us are good ones worth listening to and which
aren't. I became resentful of how, for example, a nice vacation would be
ruined over worrying about a lingering bill for $50 or whatever. It's really
hard to be around someone like that long term and still feel like they make
you happy and that your life is better with them in it, when it so clearly is
materially not better. It's like all the color drains away from life and why
bother doing fun stuff since it'll just get ruined anyway?

~~~
jacalata
> Life is hard enough without your partner making things that should be easy
> difficult.

Would you make the same argument about a partner with cancer, or Alzheimer's,
or multiple sclerosis?

~~~
draw_down
I don't like when people compare mental issues to physical disease because
three doctors will all diagnose the same cancer as cancer, not so with e.g.
anxiety. (Not to mention the race, class, and gender biases that come into
play with diagnosing mental issues).

Beside that, there is some element of choice if the condition exists at the
time you decide to make the other person your partner. If you meet someone
with cancer and decide they'll be your partner, well, you make that choice and
everything that comes with it. This is why I say I can't do it. I tried once,
for a long time. If your partner becomes ill at some point after that, well,
that's life. And it could just as easily have been you.

But anyway, yes, it's hard no matter what. Illness is bad, and sad, and it
makes life hard for everyone.

~~~
greenshackle2
Cancer is not the best example here. Cancer, like anxiety or depression, is
not a single disease, it's cluster of symptoms that can have a multitude of
different causes.

You can tell when it's bad enough, like if there are visible tumors, but try
to get 3 doctors to correctly diagnose whether a cancer is completely gone
after treatment.

On the other hand, I guarantee 3 out of 3 doctors will diagnose my panic
disorder as panic disorder.

I have recurrent tonsillitis, clearly a physical disease, yet 3 doctors
couldn't figure out the cause.

When it comes to disease things are almost always murky, whether it's
"physical" or "mental".

------
jsprogrammer
Stop thinking in "types" and responses and most certainly--stop thinking that
things happen for "absolutely no reason".

Everything happens for a reason. Anxiety is a mental state. Until that state
is resolved, the anxiety will persist. Strong self-reflection is the way out.

Cannabis can help to rocket you through your anxiety and helped me figure it
out pretty quickly.

