
Uber becomes legal in NSW, Australia – taxi owners to be compensated - BishoyDemian
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/uber-legal-in-nsw-taxi-owners-to-be-compensated/story-fni0cx12-1227656507684?nk=35cb421f9f76b5c0063a30276fd580f9-1450392057
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voltagex_
The Tele is a tabloid but appears to be the best source for this article.

September: [http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-28/uber-drivers-face-
susp...](http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-28/uber-drivers-face-
suspension/6808582)

Here's what's probably the press release that was used for this article:
[http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/about/news-
events/news/ministerial...](http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/about/news-
events/news/ministerial/2015/151217-ride-sharing.html)

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victorhooi
This is awesome news!

As a NSW taxpayer, I'm not too sure I agree with the government doling out our
taxpayers to compensate a dying/legacy industry, or tacking on $1 per Uber
ride to pay them out but I suppose the taxi lobby is strong, and the
government needs to pander to them.

I'm curious what licensing is required, will be good to hear more details.

~~~
cletus
The government has sold taxi licensed/medallions for the right to provide this
service. If this were real estate eminent domain would apply and the owners
would be compensated. It seems consistent to compensate existing license
holders.

~~~
victorhooi
Well, not really.

It's not like the government took away the rights of taxi drivers to drive
people around. It's just that there's a new entrant now, and they actually
need to compete.

In fact, taxi medallion prices went down post-2011 (before Uber) because the
government released more, because consumers (i.e. everyday people) complained
about crazy prices. You don't see the government compensating people there.

It would be like if the government handed out licenses to build 1000
apartments.

Then, they realised, jeez, house prices are crazy, we better issue more
licenses. Or we better re-zone to allow super-high density apartments, or
allow people to sub-let apartment (cause in this make-believe world, that
wasn't possibly before).

Would the original 1000 apartment owners be clamoring for government handouts?

~~~
notatoad
But the whole selling point of a taxi medallion is that the government will
limit supply. If a developer was sold the rights to build 1000 apartments
under an agreement that the government would limit future development in the
region and they later opened the market, the developer they made that promise
to would be right to expect some compensation.

The problem isn't the compensation. The problem is that the government
promised artificial scarcity to the taxi companies in the first place.

~~~
wycx
Does the legislation specifically state artificial scarcity will be enforced,
or just that supply will be regulated by the govt?

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sarne777
As an American resident of NSW, I had no idea Uber wasn't legal, I just knew
they couldn't pick up from the airport. I've been using the service regularly
since moving here. Perhaps this helps explain why locals I've met seem to
favor taxis.

~~~
dav43
I would have to differ on this. I only ride uber in Sydney since I got back
from o/s in Jan-2015. I would say, once the locals have ridden uber (i have
introduced family and friends on the service), no one that i know prefers
taxis.

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jseliger
Actually, this article raises a point I'd not considered: Why doesn't Uber
just start buying medallions, especially in large / angry markets? In NYC,
medallions are down to $600,000: [http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2015-taxi-
medallion-king](http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2015-taxi-medallion-king).
Presumably Uber wouldn't have to buy all the medallions out there, but if it
bought enough it could circumvent much of the political opposition from
current holders.

~~~
tacostakohashi
Because buying them would push up the price, especially once the sellers
realized the motive. If they could really buy them all for $600,000 / each
they probably would.

Nevertheless, having the government compulsorily aquire and compensate
previous owners in an orderly fashion, where they all get the same
compensation instead of being able to push up the price by holding out is a
wonderful solution to this kind of problem.

It would be great to see this happen more in the US, taxi medallions and rent
regulation are obvious areas where just compensating the current beneficiaries
as a one-off, then opening up the market would do everyone a world of good.

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pavel_lishin
> _The perpetual owners of taxi plates, about 5800 people, will receive a
> $20,000 payment for the plate. Multiple plate owners will receive a maximum
> of $40,000._

> _Both taxi and Uber drivers will also have to pay the government a $1 levy
> per trip for a maximum of five years to fund the compensation package._

So, "here's $20k, now start paying us back"?

I wonder how long it takes to accrue 20k rides in a taxi.

~~~
joseakle
For an average of 7 rides/day ~7 years, 20 rides/day ~3 years. Assuming the
car is working daily.

~~~
repsilat
Having a taxi collect a $1 just to redistribute it back to taxi drivers seems
a little pointless. The real impact will be in the levy money collected by
Uber drivers, so the ratio of Uber drivers to taxi medallions is very
relevant.

------
dav43
Can someone explain what I'm missing? 20,000 in perpetuity at the approx 2.5
rate in oz is PV of 800,000? But the plates hit there highs of 475,000 in
2011?

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ank_the_elder
Why aren't we addressing the safety aspects of Uber rather than making it
legal? Can we not ensure that the cars are professionally insured,
professionally driven and kept up to standard and safe to be in? That should
be our number one priority before allowing the company to continue operating.

Some random examples:

[http://www.cnet.com/au/news/sydney-ridesharing-driver-
charge...](http://www.cnet.com/au/news/sydney-ridesharing-driver-charged-with-
sexual-assault/)

[http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/uber-driver-
arres...](http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/uber-driver-arrested-
over-alleged-sex-assault-in-melbourne/news-
story/200c9101a4f31ec7218507d7bd6b6d4a?=)

[http://metro.co.uk/2015/09/08/uber-driver-dragged-
passenger-...](http://metro.co.uk/2015/09/08/uber-driver-dragged-passenger-
out-of-car-and-ran-over-her-5381679/)

~~~
victorhooi
Sorry, but these examples are pretty laughable. Do you live in Sydney, or even
Australia?

As a Uber customer in Australia, safety is not something I need to worry about
getting into an Uber. I can see the photo of the driver before I get in, I can
see his rating, and I know the entire ride including GPS location etc. will be
stored in the cloud.

Your examples only prove my point.

That's a lot more accountability that can be had with taxis.

Now taxis on the other hand....I have had some great drivers.

However, more often many of them are rude, and quite honestly, some of the
most a*sehole drivers on the road I've seen. Even as a customer in a hurry, I
don't want him or her driving like it's Grand Prix Turismo, or being a jerk to
other people on the road.

With Uber, I just rate him or her 1 star, and say aggressive driving. I have
only had to do that once ever with Uber (and I have taken around 150 Uber
trips, across four countries) - and within minutes, somebody from Uber emailed
me back, to follow up with the complaint.

Have you ever tried complaining about a Sydney taxi driver? Or heck, talking
to their lost property department? Good luck with that, mate....

~~~
ank_the_elder
None of those examples strike me as funny; I am somewhat concerned that you
can laugh in the face of human suffering.

I am also not defending taxi drivers. The other day I had to take a taxi for a
$9 ride and the guy was less than graceful about the fact that I wasn't going
very far from his taxi line.

But the solution is not knee-jerk deregulation - although I agree that a
shakeup is necessary and warranted.

~~~
victorhooi
Nice attempt at a strawman fallacy there, ank_the_elder....

Nobody ever said "human suffering was laughable" \- you just made that up.
It's the equivalent of uttering "think of the children!", when it has nothing
to do with the topic at hand.

I said that your examples were laughable - and you have said nothing to make
me change my view.

I made numerous points - in Uber, you see a photograph of your driver before
they arrive. In Uber, you see their rating (and can rate them afterwards). In
Uber, the drivers are constantly tracked by GPS, which is stored in the cloud.
You addressed _none_ of these points in your reply.

Please list to me your reasons how a taxi driver is somehow _more_ accountable
than an Uber driver?

I have had numerous bad experiences with taxi drivers, both as a passenger,
and as a fellow driver or cyclist on the road. I can assure you that
attempting to contact the taxi companies (at least in Sydney) is usually an
exercise in futility. It's only when you involve the police, that things get a
bit more traction, and the taxi companies are suddenly ever so co-operative -
fortunately I have only had to do that once.

In contrast, Uber customer support is fantastic. Even better, they have GPS
records of everything - so if you say, the driver never showed, it is very
easy to prove or disprove. Try doing that with a cab. (I've never actually had
that issue with Uber, to be honest, of a driver not showing - only with
taxis.)

Or one time, I left some headphones in an Uber. Immediately contacted the
driver via the app, who then drove back to me for _free_ , to give them to me.
Try doing that in a cab.

