
Bill Gates calls Microsoft’s TikTok deal a poisoned chalice - pseudolus
https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/8/21359720/bill-gates-microsoft-tik-tok-deal-comments-interview
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topkai22
They underlying interview is pretty amazing, mostly not about this subject:
[https://www.wired.com/story/bill-gates-on-covid-most-us-
test...](https://www.wired.com/story/bill-gates-on-covid-most-us-tests-are-
completely-garbage/)

~~~
typenil
"I personally believe government should not allow those types of lies or fraud
or child pornography [to be hidden with encryption like WhatsApp or Facebook
Messenger]."

Disappointing to see that Bill Gates isn't concerned about the slippery slope
of regulating encryption. It frankly sounds like he'd be on board with the
EARN IT act.

As long as we're only undermining freedom for the children or to make sure
there's no wrongthink going on, no problem.

~~~
NicoJuicy
I've met a couple of really smart people ( like CEOs), who are very good for
their company + employees and have a very strong opinion about this.

They are pro security for sure, but...

Security shouldn't be abused by malicious actors. And those malicious actors
shouldn't be able to hide behind encryption.

In the same sense, privacy is important but I'm not sure if it's that
important in Covid times ( eg. The decentralized requirements from Europe).

In short: he's not saying security is bad. He's saying government spying isn't
that bad IF the government can be trusted.

~~~
luckylion
> In short: he's not saying security is bad. He's saying government spying
> isn't that bad IF the government can be trusted.

Which is a long way to say "security is bad because it might keep people safe
who we don't want to be kept safe".

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thekyle
I do expect TikTok to lose users after Microsoft acquires it. But not because
of anything Microsoft might do. TikTok just seems like a fad social network
that will inevitably lose the cool factor eventually.

~~~
MivLives
Instagram is also in the process of knocking them off. That didn't work out so
well for Snap.

~~~
bobthepanda
Eh, Snap managed to kneecap themselves with an extremely controversial UX
redesign shortly after Instagram stories, and this was an app that had a
notoriously bad UX to begin with.

Snap was also not doing well outside the US, but I haven't heard anything like
that about TikTok.

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bobbydreamer
Tiktok is better than YT new 15-30 sec videos and far better than fb as well
in content and keeping the user in. Entire thing deal and stuff it's a waste
of time or distracting people. Somebody figured out something better, newer
algorithm. At this point in world you have a mobile you are being tracked.

In last one week YT reco is all about bomb after watching couple of Beirut
videos. That clearly says algo is broke. Tiktok was on fire during BLM
protests but still keep regularly showing other contents then and then.

Microsoft first has to figure out and tell why have Teams and Skype. At this
point people are migrating from SharePoint to confluence or other s/w to
manage documents. Shrpnt GUI pretty much suck. New IE copy of chrome for the
first week, it was consuming less CPU, now I could hear CPU fan just like
chrome. MS should focus on improving software rather than media or unrelated
things. Right now only s/w I like in Win10 is task manager, I use it soo much,
thank god that UI has not changed.

Google never had luck with social media platforms. Fb came tookout Orkut, so
many other things they started all closed down. Google search also needs
improvement, it's fast but content is not as good as how it used to be 5yrs
back or before.

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Solstinox
I guess Microsoft may drop ~$30 billion on this poisoned chalice out of
goodwill.

~~~
topkai22
I think Bill Gates is worried that assets acquired in a $30B deal may take
inordinate amounts of time and attention from senior leadership, at the
expense of the rest of a $1600 billion business.

~~~
throwaway324343
He's chairman of the board. He can stop it if he wants to.

~~~
samfromnz
Not any more; he stepped down earlier this year.

[https://news.microsoft.com/2020/03/13/microsoft-announces-
ch...](https://news.microsoft.com/2020/03/13/microsoft-announces-change-to-
its-board-of-directors/)

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lingxiaoling
could someone parse the analogy for me. Does he mean a deal like this will
undo MS slowly over time?

~~~
blihp
Not necessarily undo MS, but rather that the deal looks attractive but may
actually not be any good. In other words, it could end up being one of those
deals where a few years down the road MS has to write the purchase price off
as a loss.

~~~
torbital
Given the opportunity though, it still seems like a risk well worth it.

Businesses rarely (if ever) fail because of an acquisition gone wrong. But a
acquisition gone right can have great returns.

If Instagram flopped when Facebook bought it, Facebook would still be doing
just fine. But since it did go well.. yeah.

So I believe that it's still probably in the investor's best interest if MS
does the deal even if it's only like a 35% chance that it isn't a complete
failure.

~~~
bobthepanda
I mean some of the biggest examples have been tech. AOL and Time Warner was a
hot mess that destroyed both, for instance.

~~~
scarface74
AOL would have been destroyed anyway. They were a dialup ISP who saw their
time coming. They were smart to take their inflated stock price to buy a real
asset.

Of course they mismanaged it and it should have been a reverse takeover like
Next/Apple.

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siliconc0w
Can someone explain how encryption comes in play with social media moderation?
I'd understand that from less technical 'thought leaders' but I imagine Bill
is still a pretty technical guy so I was kinda surprised to see that.

~~~
skybrian
Facebook has announced that they want to move to end-to-end encryption for
messaging, similar to Whatsapp. This would mean that any moderation being done
would have to happen on the device. But a company that's promising end-to-end
encryption presumably wouldn't do that.

That's kind of the point; switching to end-to-end encryption means the company
is (supposedly) getting out of the moderation business, at least for these
messages.

The kind of thing to worry about is social media's role in encouraging mob
violence, massacres, and genocide. I assume Bill Gates is taking a global
perspective on this.

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rchaud
Microsoft in talks to buy TikTok's operations in 5 Eyes countries only strikes
me as strange. Why not their European operations as well?

Was this acquisition even on their roadmap before talks of a ban started
making the rounds? It seems completely out of sync with the type of
acquisitions MS makes, like Github or Linkedin.

What do MS shareholders have to say about forking over $30b or thereabouts to
bankroll POTUS' China panic?

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Havoc
>President Trump suggesting the US Treasury will need some type of cut from
any acquisition.

uhm what? Has Mr ArtOfTheDeal still not understood that he's a president not
profit seeking CEO? How bizarre.

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xoxoy
I agree in the sense that TikTok is a trust and safety disaster at the moment
and I’m not sure Microsoft realizes the investment required to clean it up and
make it truly safe.

One of the most disturbing features to me is that you can be logged out and
download nearly any video to your phone. It would be naive to think pedophiles
are not actively downloading videos of minors dancing provocatively and
sharing it.

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dcow
Videos of minors dancing is by no means native to tiktok or in any way
illegal. If you think those videos are socially problematic (which many do),
then you need to attack the incentive structure that breeds that type of
content.

~~~
xoxoy
agreed the algorithm is especially geared to minors to make mini music videos
that are highly sexualized

~~~
dcow
Yes, but so is Hollywood’s, for example. The algorithm is geared around
imitation style creative proliferation. It shows you videos similar to others
you've liked. It simply seems like lots of people like to watch other people
dance to catchy tunes. And even watch people react to watching other TikTok
videos. The top videos on the platform get hundreds of millions of views, far
more than what you’d expect if this content was supported by pockets of
underground “pedophiles”. On one hand TikTok is an amazing and disruptive tool
for creative expression. On the other hand, it simply reiterates our timeless
cultural desire for sexualized female-gendered expression. If you find this
aspect of human nature problematic we have also developed tools and
institutions to combat it: religion. But those seem to have pedophile problems
too. Joke aside they have fallen out of popularity of late.

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arkitaip
I totally see Microsoft ruining TikTok simply because of their corporate
culture. Microsoft has had an astonishing history of destroying billions of
dollars in value simply because they can't manage their products better.
Internet Explorer, Bing and their mobile phones represent entire industries
where Microsoft has been totally decimated despite enormous advantages in
terms of resources and monopolies.

~~~
vikramkr
I wasnt aware that the bar for having a good corporate culture was to be so
utterly successful at everything you try ever that you end up with a monopoly
in every single sector you ever compete in and become the most successful
company in human history. Somebody should tell Nadella that the new corporate
culture he is building at Microsoft that has led to their enormous turnaround
in share performance and public perception is all in vain and has failed
because ballamer laughed at the iPhone once.

