
Uber president Jeff Jones is quitting - fluxic
http://www.recode.net/2017/3/19/14976110/uber-president-jeff-jones-quits-management-turmoil-ride-hailing-company?utm_campaign=www.recode.net&utm_content=entry&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
======
loudin
Serious question - why hasn't the Uber board replaced Kalanick yet? While it
is indisputable he successfully brought Uber to where it is now, it doesn't
seem like he has the good judgement to be leading Uber at this stage of the
company's lifecycle. Wouldn't the best thing for the company at this point be
a complete overhaul of leadership?

~~~
tyingq
Would be fun for the remaining bro culture if the board ousted Kalanick and
installed Marissa Mayer.

~~~
drivingmenuts
So she could bury the details of getting hacked? Again?

Seriously, if she is ever allowed to hold a paying job again, something is
wrong with corporate culture.

~~~
tyingq
Interesting...The FBI seems to be praising her for her actions in that space.

 _" Mayer exhibited 'great leadership and courage while under intense pressure
from many entities,' FBI San Francisco Division Special Agent in Charge Jack
Bennett said on Wednesday"_

~~~
synicalx
Yeah that'll be a great resume padder "Ignored and pretended not to know about
one of the largest breaches in history, but it's ok because the FBI said I was
a real trooper"

------
fluxic
Update 1:

> _Travis Kalanick just sent out a company-wide email. It essentially says
> after Uber said it was naming a COO, Jones decided to leave._

[0]
[https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/843586902817099777](https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/843586902817099777)

Update 2: Ex-president Jones makes statement

> _" I joined Uber because of its Mission [sic], and the challenge to build
> global capabilities that would help the company mature and thrive long-
> term._

 _" It is now clear, however, that the beliefs and approach to leadership that
have guided my career are inconsistent with what I saw and experienced at
Uber, and I can no longer continue as president of the ride sharing business._

 _" There are thousands of amazing people at the company, and I truly wish
everyone well."_

[1]
[https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/843620240961368065](https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/843620240961368065)

~~~
elvinyung
Haha, from the follow-up tweets[1]:

> one or two back-handed compliments in there. but alas.

> (one imagines taking the high road would have been a better decision here.
> but hey, im not an exec)

[1]:
[https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/843587293428375553](https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/843587293428375553)

~~~
nomnombunty
More from the follow up tweets in regards to John's statement to Recode[1]:

> one imagines that the above statement wouldn't have come if the below email
> didn't include the passive aggression

[1]:
[https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/843620898967969793](https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/843620898967969793)

------
israrkhan
Given that he quit just in six months, probably he did not even wait for his
RSU grants to mature (1 year cliff for stock grants). The situation might be
much worse that what appears.

~~~
trevyn
Leadership compensation does not work in the same way as rank and file
compensation.

~~~
jaytaylor
Not necessarily true. I've seen it work both ways, so probably best to leave
it at "we don't know the details of the compensation arrangement".

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was_boring
While this is big for the company, I am curious what it means for recruitment
of future executives at the company.

My understanding is at this level it's about personal connections and grooming
an image. With that in mind, does it become harder to attract great executives
on a go-forward basis for Uber?

~~~
jimmywanger
> With that in mind, does it become harder to attract great executives

A good analogy would be attracting candidates for coaching positions in
sports.

If you're a team in a bad situation, you'll have to settle for candidates that
don't have the experience usually required for the position, or people who've
done it before who haven't had huge success.

Also most great execs are already in a great position - why would they step
into a bad situation unless you gave them a higher title or more power?

Basically you get either a placeholder or an unknown quantity. The unknown
quantity is just that. They might be awesome (everybody has to have had a
first head coaching job) or completely overwhelmed.

~~~
dharmon
There's an important difference: compensation.

If a losing team wants a winning coach, they will either have to settle for
someone inexperienced, or pay up to get someone experienced in turnaround
situations.

Same with companies, except with turnarounds the most substantial part of
compensation is the company's stock. If the turnaround is successful, the
executive will get wildly rich as the stock appreciates (and rightly so).

With Uber, the stock is greatly overvalued, which means anybody coming in is
trying to turnaround the company, but only to maintain the current imaginary
valuation. Where's the upside?

~~~
jimmywanger
> pay up to get someone experienced in turnaround situations.

To your point, in the business world, if you've already gone through the
turnaround experience, you're probably already very well compensated.

The one big thing that you can dangle in front of good candidates is a more
powerful position or more responsibility. Hire a COO into a CEO position, or
give a proven head coach power over personnel decisions. Other than that,
there really isn't much of a carrot you can dangle. A move from a CEO of a
successful company to a CEO of a failing company is a strictly negative move.
EDIT: all other things being equal, of course. You could get a CEO of a small
successful company to run a large failing company, but that'd be similar to
getting a successful high school coach to run a college team.

~~~
user5994461
> To your point, in the business world, if you've already gone through the
> turnaround experience, you're probably already very well compensated.

And you have a name and a position and a network and influence at your
company.

Money is worth peanuts compared to that!

What's the risk of taking an hypothetical 50M from Uber, it's gonna be trying
to fuck you over with ISOs and sexually harass you, whereas you can take 5M a
year at your current company safely and with great success for the next
decade.

Keeping a successful ship successful is hard work. There is nothing a
distressed ship has to offer you.

~~~
runamok
The challenge? Anecdata but my mom explained it thusly: some are good at
starting companies, some at keeping things humming along and others at fixing
companies...

------
yalogin
If you are living in the Bay Area you would think Uber is a bad company. But I
just met someone outside of the Bay and realized people love Uber. They have a
lot of problems and a lot to do but they are still the market leader.

~~~
cyberferret
Cities that still don't have ride sharing services still see Uber as the
shining Messiah coming to save them. Current shenanigans within the company
are really not that well known outside of tech circles.

At present, in our city in North Australia, ride sharing services are still
technically illegal, but Uber is campaigning hard against local government to
get it overturned and the general population are behind them because the local
taxi service stinks. Uber are even placing targeted ads on Facebook for local
residents, and have a special page on their website just for our city
residents to get information on the progress of the fight with our state govt.
and local council.

------
CydeWeys
Uber doesn't have a prayer of rehabilitation until Kalanick himself goes. The
rot goes straight up to him. Jeff Jones was a much more recent acquisition who
came from staid corporate America (Target) -- I don't think he was the
problem.

~~~
taude
I agree. There's enough social awareness that people don't want to support a
company run by jerks like Travis Kalanick. In an era with socially conscious
consumers, integrity of leadership matters.

It is easy enough to switch to Lyft (I live in major metropolitan area)
without any inconvenience. And the Lyft driver's I've talked with about all
the controversy say they make more $$$ and are happier driving for Lyft.

~~~
TheCowboy
There is still the problem that without the competition that Uber provides,
Lyft likely becomes a more typical company and begins increasing their margins
in ways that customers and employees dislike.

~~~
dralley
Uber's rates are already unsustainably low. Competition is one thing but
unhealthy, unsustainable competition is another thing entirely.

It's probably for the best that rates go up a bit.

~~~
794CD01
Best for who? It's better for riders if rates stay unsustainably low and they
can get discounted rides at the expense of VCs.

~~~
andrewprock
"better for riders if rates stay unsustainably low"

Rates that are unsustainably low cannot be sustained, by definition.

~~~
794CD01
Not without outside pressure, which in this case exists. I've been using Uber
for 5 years.

------
nananonymous
Meta: how can you write an article about Uber's president leaving and leave
out the massive lawsuit from Google's parent company?

~~~
daenney
Because they're unrelated? Mixing in the Waymo suit does nothing to clarify
the situation around Jones. Sure it's juicy, but it's a different story.

~~~
jonathankoren
Not necessarily. It broke within six months. It's believable that he didn't
know anything about the parentage of Otto, and when the lawsuit hit, he
realized just how screwed up of a situation he found himself in and bailed.

We can't say it is related, but we can't say it's not related either.

~~~
phailhaus
> We can't say it is related, but we can't say it's not related either.

...and that's why you should leave it out of the headline.

------
Fricken
I think Uber's biggest problem is the broken relationships it has with so many
of it's drivers. Their abuse of their labour force is the reason unions exist.

~~~
nomnombunty
It is a broken relationship that would be hard to fix. Uber doesn't even try
to hide its intention to get rid of the drivers once it has its self driving
cars fully deployed

~~~
tomcam
At current burn rate they won't survive long enough for that to happen.

------
redm
The "echo chamber" works both ways. When there is excitement and buzz, it
drives startups to success like no where else. Apparently it works in reverse
too and people love to see the big kid on the block take hits.

~~~
ivraatiems
Sorry, this is not just or mainly what's happening here. Every time an anti-
Uber article comes up, someone pops in and says something to the effect of
your comment, but it simply isn't true.

Uber is evil. They do evil things. They should not be supported. Yes, people
like to see the titans fall, but people also like to see those who behave
poorly get what they deserve for that behavior. That's what's happening here.

For reference, here is a list I compiled a while ago of all the scummy things
Uber does that would make one glad to see it go.[1]

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13793923](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13793923)

~~~
partiallypro
Outside of the sexual harassment claims, literally none of this is different
than any other huge tech company out there. People want to see Uber failing
has a lot more to do with narrative than reality. People have created a
caricature out of Uber's failings and applied it to every aspect of the
company. It's starting to feel like an agenda more than actual concerns, it's
pretty annoying actually. Once Uber is gone, if it ever goes, people will move
on to Lyft or the next threat to the status quo. AirBnB and Uber are the
current enemies because they endanger established businesses more than
anything else. They don't have heavy B2B relationships like the other big
players (Amazon, Google, etc) so they are naturally the targets of business
that have no interest in seeing them succeed. This has a long history of
happening well before Uber existed, people want to protect their interests and
create and build upon a narrative of rapacious heartlessness.

~~~
ivraatiems
I won't lie to you and say I don't have an anti-Uber agenda. I do. I would
like them to fail and go away.

But you have cause and effect backwards. I feel this way about Uber _because_
of all the things they do; I didn't feel this way and then decide to find
evidence to support my feelings. Lyft isn't great, either, hell, neither are
taxi companies, but they aren't saturating the world with crappy behavior like
Uber is. Given how universal Uber's misbehavior is - even my list is only
partial coverage - I don't see how it _doesn 't_ apply to "every aspect of the
company."

At what point would you draw a line and say "this behavior pattern is
unethical and shouldn't be encouraged/enabled" when we're talking about a big
company? That is, if Uber doesn't fit the bill, who does - does anyone?

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scottmcleod
Uber's board is failing the company and the public right now.

------
bogomipz
What is the role of "President" of the company? Where does that title fit in
to an org chart or relate to the C-level execs? I am not familiar with this
title in tech companies.

~~~
icelancer
I am the President of my company, and the founder. I gave up the CEO title to
someone who bought a piece of my business. The way we split it is:

President (me): Head of corporate strategy, networking, and vision. (I also am
the acting CTO but that's kind of not relevant here)

CEO (him): Fiscal policy, hiring planning, org chart projections, etc. He is
the main executor of plans and also somewhat the Chief Revenue Officer. He's
also the COO and his work is more meaningful in being the ops director,
actually.

I loved giving up the CEO title. I don't want it back. Ever.

EDIT: Essentially the President title is flexible. In my company's case, I am
the head of the entity and the buck stops with me for 85-90% of use cases
across 30+ employees. But that's not always the case.

~~~
bogomipz
Thanks, interesting division of duties. I think as a title it's certainly more
common in non-tech companies. Oddly though the VP title seems to be a dime a
dozen. I have worked at many places where there was department with one or two
people and one of them was the VP.

~~~
icelancer
Hmm. We don't have any VPs. Maybe we need to add some.

Also should be noted that I guess the company I run isn't really a tech
company. We do sports science stuff.

------
rexreed
I don't understand the obsession by the press, VCs, and even consumers for
Uber. I know it has changed the dynamic of transportation for many people. I
know it has changed the dynamic of self-employment for many people. I know it
has changed the dynamic of regulation for many cities. Oh wait. Ok I get it
now. All that said, it's remarkable that ride sharing is the pinnacle of
startup valuation in this latest wave of startups.

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brooksbp
I love this thread. TK is loving this. GaryV is loving this too.

Go build an Uber. Do it. Please. I wish you all the successes of this world.

Worry about yourself, not Uber.

------
NicoJuicy
In the assumption that any news is better then no news. Has the bad publicity
contributed in a decline or increase of installations / usage for Uber?

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dkarapetyan
Hypergrowth is a lot like cancer. Either they take swift action to excise all
the toxic elements or it is going to be a slow and steady decline.

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Overtonwindow
Jones saw the writing on the wall...

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thedarkginger
"That was not the reason for Jones’ departure, sources said, even though it
meant that Kalanick was bringing in a new exec who could outrank him. Instead,
these sources said, Jones determined that the situation at the company was
more problematic than he realized."

~~~
notyourwork
Why did you quote the article and not add a comment? I read that in the
article so adding it here doesn't add any value to the discussion.

~~~
hyperbovine
I appreciate somebody extracting the money quote. I don't even remotely have
time to read everything posted here.

~~~
Kinnard
The loss of context can be dangerous and misleading.

~~~
hyperbovine
I'll be the judge of that.

~~~
Kinnard
Without the context?

~~~
hyperbovine
If the summary is truly eyebrow-raising then yes, I'd move the little pointer
to the top of the screen and click the link. Whatever point you are trying to
make here seems way overblown.

~~~
notyourwork
The reason I commented was the part he quoted could have been the title for
the submission. It wasn't adding value to any discussion so I felt it wasn't
needed.

You and some others disagree with my point of view but judging by the amount
of discussion on this post, I suspect majority agrees with me. And by that I
mean pasting a quote without any additional context or comments isn't adding
valuable discussion to hackernews threads. I come here for the discussion so
the OP was off putting to me.

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aphextron
I really hope that Uber serves as a warning to companies who think they can
ignore customer complaints. I've never dealt with such an opaque company in my
entire life, in terms of getting any actual human support whatsoever regarding
anything.

~~~
Jare
Google wants to have a word with you. Or rather, they don't want to, and won't
let you if you do.

~~~
JumpCrisscross
I pay for Google Apps. Their phone support is excellent. They literally built
a feature for me (compliance-related tags in Vault) within a few days of my
call.

------
MichaelBurge
I wonder if it's a good idea to apply to Uber. With all the controversy, you
could argue for a pretty good salary bump or signing bonus to compensate.

Though, if executives are quitting after 6 months even before their stock
vests, maybe it's more than just the outrage machine news clamoring for clicks
and views.

~~~
CydeWeys
There's lots of other companies out there that are paying good salaries that
don't have these problems. It doesn't make sense to me to seek out a ship
that's taking on water to sign up for. I know some Uber employees and none of
them are happy with the situation.

~~~
aianus
Of course it makes sense, they would be more desperate to hire and you would
have less competition from others who have ethical problems with Uber.

~~~
CydeWeys
How are you so blase about jumping into a toxic work environment? A little bit
more money isn't worth those conditions, assuming you could even get it. And
keep in mind that a lot of the compensation is going to be in Uber equity --
which is affected by this scandal.

~~~
aianus
The people I know at Uber don't think it's a toxic work environment and I have
no reason to distrust them in favor of a couple of accusatory blog posts from
disgruntled ex-employees that I've never met.

~~~
CydeWeys
The people I know at Uber say differently. But whatever, it's your life and
your decision. I wouldn't go work there now.

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throwaway3332
This Uber story, where scandals just kept dropping struck me as very
suspicious. Like Google just randomly got CCed by a supplier? You want me to
believe that?

I was suspicious but who could be behind it, and why? Who is telling people to
air the dirt that's undoubtedly very real, but that they have been just
sitting on for a long time, at this particular moment?

I recently learned that Kalanick is very close to Trump, and given that this
started just after the election that would seem the likeliest explanation.

~~~
fred_is_fred
Are you claiming that Jeff Jones applied for a took a job with Uber just so he
could resign 6 months later to create a controversy?

~~~
throwaway3331
No, I didn't mean to imply that. I'd say either he is not part of the
shadiness at all, or he left because someone applied pressure on him recently.

But this is just my guesswork.

(Switching account because I didn't store the old password... Wrote this
password down)

------
bsg75
> He is leaving after apparently deciding the current controversies are too
> much to handle.

Not exactly leadership material.

Edit: Apparently an unpopular opinion. Do those here think otherwise given he
joined the company less than a year ago (and is thus not part of the original
culture), but instead could try to repair the damage done by the uber-bro
culture instead of looking for an easier paycheck?

~~~
Anderkent
> Apparently an unpopular opinion. Do those here think otherwise given he
> joined the company less than a year ago (and is thus not part of the
> original culture), but instead could try to repair the damage done by the
> uber-bro culture instead of looking for an easier paycheck?

Maybe 'uber-bro culture' is not actually a thing, and he doesn't see a
possible solution for the PR problems?

It's really hard to stop the hatetrain.

~~~
bsg75
That depends on where the train is directed: At the company as a whole, or at
another set of company heads who ignore serious or hard problems?

I doubt the entire company is tainted, but it does have issues that need to be
led by people who will address in something other a Facebook AMA.

