

Parable of the Stones - mikecane
http://www.rexblog.com/2013/04/24/49208

======
zach
The idea that Jobs is reacting against is essentially the "Great Man" theory
of history as applied to business:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Man_theory>

This idea states that it is the "great men" who are responsible for making the
world we see today, through their force of will, powerful ideas and charisma.

And as it happens, that's how the public sees Steve Jobs today. So it's good
to hear him tell a story that reminds us that he had a very different
perspective on this idea.

~~~
ecuzzillo
I don't know about that. He was reacting against the mythology of the idea and
ignorance of execution. It still might be (and I would argue in some cases it
was with him) that there exist "great men" such that if you remove them, the
product is wildly shittier, whereas if you remove almost anybody else in the
process, the product is not necessarily that much worse.

------
nzealand
Can Apple survive without Jobs? Who is shaking up the can until the product is
polished?

Large organizations often take very smart people and very good ideas and then
produce crap. The most successful organizations usually have one very strong
leader with visionary ideas yet an incredible attention to product detail.
Apple, Microsoft, Oracle, Google, Salesforce, Facebook... take away that one
leader and they struggle. Because large organizations thrive on teamwork and
not taking any big risks (if you are right, everyone basks in your glory, if
you are wrong, your ass is on the line.)

Apples latest maps application was far from polished. Then their CEO fired the
one guy who seemed willing to shake things up. I am looking forward to their
next big thing, to see how polished it is.

~~~
danielrakh
May I ask how you know that Tim Cook, Jony Ive, or any other Apple exec isn't
"shaking up the can"?

As a matter of fact their CEO fired the one guy who wasn't willing to shake
things up. In fact, I think he was fired for that very reason.

------
gruseom
Some time ago I heard an 82-year-old lady talk about how her parents' marriage
had been a happy one. She said that the whole time she was growing up, her
mother kept a newspaper clipping on the family icebox that described marriage
as a process by which "two stones are by friction made smooth". It was only
later that she saw this as a sign that her parents did have their
difficulties, and that her mother must have kept it there as a reminder.

The point is, these insights are proverbial.

------
cellularmitosis
This reminds me of a signature I once saw on a forum: "as iron sharpens iron,
so one man sharpens another.". As it turns out, that's actually proverbs
27:17.

------
zafka
A nice parable, but for anyone who has used a rock tumbler credibility is lost
when you get polished stones in one day. It makes me wonder if the story is
completely fabricated, or changed for brevity.

~~~
ScottWhigham
I laughed at that as well. Mine, back in 197x, took weeks. My son's, bought in
2009, took the same amount of time...

------
stevenameyer
As much as I have a personal dislike for Jobs, I think this is advice that a
lot of people fail to see value in. Having people who care standing up for
their opinion and taking whatever comes out on top will often lead to the best
product.

People need to stop avoiding friction between opinions and ideas and instead
embrace it. That's how great things come about.

------
lalos
Weird to see all the comments criticizing the mention of Steve Jobs and the
use of the word parable instead of people just concentrating on what this post
is about, just an anecdote that may or not relate to your leadership style.
Who cares of who made it and yes I understand the title was modified to sound
more appealing but everything in life is modified to attract attention.

~~~
Contero
If the author wants us to discuss the point he should get to it faster rather
than droning on about apple stock and product pipelines.

300 words isn't so much that it's cumbersome to read, but it definitely primed
me to think that his point was somehow specific to apple and investing when it
wasn't at all. I'm not surprised that people have decided to nitpick it.

~~~
lalos
Yes but instead of nitpicking to criticize maybe we could use the same skill
to filter out the bad parts and get to the good parts. I'm not saying I agree
with the way the author presented the information, he thought it was the best
way but that doesn't mean I have to completely ignore what he wrote based on
that fact. It's pretty obvious to see in this post the relevant part to HN.

------
neekb
The part I liked best was:

"And as you evolve that great idea, it changes and grows. It never comes out
like it starts because you learn a lot more as you get into the subtleties of
it."

I think this really relates to the hacker community because it shows that you
can start with SOMETHING (Just go try something), and then later you can
change it and modify it. The idea you start with is never the idea that comes
out on the other side.

I have a seemingly simple, offline business that we had to pivot more than
once to get it just right. We used feedback from our customers (and more
importantly, would-be customers) to evolve and succeed. Thanks for posting
this!

------
abdophoto
Here's the video: [http://abdophoto.tumblr.com/post/48782980706/steve-jobs-
on-t...](http://abdophoto.tumblr.com/post/48782980706/steve-jobs-on-teamwork)

------
euphoria83
I have seen that video and it is a treasure of management advice. Other
things: 1) When asked how he learnt to manage such a large company and aspects
like finance, etc, he said (paraphrased): "as you do it, you just learn it".
Makes starting and running a company sound more natural. 2) The other thing I
remember he said: When sales guys get promoted to the level of CEO, they don't
understand that their company runs because of a product and that is how they
provide value to their customers, instead they just think of more sales
channels, wider markets, etc. In doing so, they kill the entire process that
created the company's product in the first place.

------
Tyrant505
This is excellent advice. This parallels with finding rocks once polished then
putting them through the machine again during hiring.

------
arocks
Implying that the Job's quote can promise future innovation is a bit of a
stretch. It is a good story, I agree. Without the occasional frictions and
collisions, it is almost impossible to make a group of highly talented people
produce great results.

Having said that, just having a highly talented team without good leadership
is disastrous. The role of the leader is more important than the sum of
talents of the team. He inspires the team to a common vision and ignites
passion. The term 'passionate team' becomes meaningless without a shared
vision.

~~~
pekk
What makes good leadership? If you have a highly talented team, good
leadership might be less leadership and a shared vision might require nothing
more than everyone receiving the same assignment. This mentality is what makes
some poor "leaders" put themselves ahead of everyone and claim credit for
everything. It wouldn't be foreign to Dilbert's pointy-haired boss.

------
drzaiusapelord
These Jobs' hagiographies are becoming tiresome.

~~~
sbuk
As are these complaints...

------
dvt
Maybe it's just me, but the Jobs worship on HN is getting pretty annoying.

~~~
sbuk
No more that the fawning over Google, or the posting of everything Linus says
in his G+ stream, or the over-the-top criticism/lack criticism of Microsoft.
Here is an idea; if it bothers you that much, don't read articles about Apple
or Jobs, and don't comment on them either.

Apologies for the snark, but this type of comment is lazy and pointless.
Trolling at it's most insipid.

~~~
mehwoot
_this type of comment is lazy and pointless. Trolling at it's most insipid._

Here is an idea; if it bothers you that much, don't read it and don't comment
on it either.

~~~
sbuk
I see what you did there. Very clever. I do tend to avoid the fawning articles
about the actors I mentioned, hence the free advice. You what you and the
others posting the soporific "bored of the Jobs worship" nonsense, or
downvoting without reply, miss in the article is the take away that the
anecdote is offering. This is due to your views of an individual that lead a
company you deem less than worthy, for whatever ideological reason. Take the
protagonist out of the story and it remains a good story. But you keep on
doing what you are doing. No, really, your counter point was insightful.

~~~
mehwoot
Hold your horses, I was just replying to your comment, not the article
content.

If people like the article, they should comment with why. If people don't like
it, they should likewise do so. That way people can have discussions. The "if
you don't like it go somewhere else" line of thinking is vapid and the world
would be worse off if everybody did that. People should challenge each other.

~~~
sbuk
When some has commented " _Maybe it's just me, but the Jobs worship on HN is
getting pretty annoying._ ", it is vapid, as you say and without any tangible
value or merit. It's not a particularly useful or constructive discussion and
it certainly doesn't "challenge" anything or anyone. It's whining, and IMHO
trolling. As I pointed out, there seems to me to be as much fawning of Linus'
G+ comments. As the OP of this particular branch perhaps admires Linus, he
doesn't notice it as much. Cognitive bias in action. My suggestion, which I
totally stand by, yet apologised for, was actually meant constructively.

~~~
mehwoot
_When some has commented "Maybe it's just me, but the Jobs worship on HN is
getting pretty annoying.", it is vapid, as you say and without any tangible
value or merit._

I disagree. It started a discussion and then you replied with how it isn't
really out of line for things that people like.

 _Cognitive bias in action._

Yes, I agree. That's why it is good that the person commented and you replied.
If they had just ignored the article, they wouldn't have received that
information. How would anybody ever learn anything if we just read and
discussed those things we already agree with?

~~~
sbuk
Nothing of merit. It's wasted the time of at least three people. If the OP had
kept such a petty thought to themselves, the world would be no worse off.
Nothing insightful has been shared...

------
signalsignal
Will no one rid us of these Steve Job's parables. Wisdom has no correlation to
success.

~~~
melling
Since he ran the company, he must have done something right. He wasn't always
right but he did have repeatable success. When he took over Apple in the late
1990's, Apple was almost dead.

Btw, here's some of his advice that I alway try to remember:

[http://www.forbes.com/sites/carminegallo/2011/05/16/steve-
jo...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/carminegallo/2011/05/16/steve-jobs-get-rid-
of-the-crappy-stuff/)

------
obviouslygreen
I don't know about this author's history, but the connotations of "parable" in
this case make it seem a bit over the top. Another Steve J.C. Jobs story;
we've even given it a snicker-worthy nearly-Biblical name.

The interview snippet itself isn't bad; while I see the point he was making,
it's not terribly strong or well-stated, and quite honestly it doesn't deserve
its own proper name. It's worth reading, but if it had been Jobs' intention
for this to be worthy of the title "parable," I'm quite sure he'd have been
able to throw it back in the coffee can for another few cycles and turn it
into something worth repeating.

~~~
d23
Blah, blah, blah. It was a cool story; the man clearly had some important
insight into the world and the making of a successful product. Can't we just
try to take something from it instead of nit-picking?

~~~
pekk
Can't we just present the interesting insight without using religious language
and deifying the man?

