
Tesla Model 3 Owners Vent About Polar Vortex Affecting Cars - tomcam
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-02/freezing-cold-means-love-hate-relationships-with-electric-cars
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martin_bech
Having owned a BMW 3 series and a Tesla Model S. The problems are pretty much
the same, in very cold weather.

Once in my BMW, the gas plug froze stock, os i Couldnt get gas.

The biggest difference, is that i can remotely start the AC/Defrost the Tesla,
with my phone. I do that 10 mins before i Drive, and everything is fine.

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throwaway2016a
Counter anecdote:

I have a Model 3 in New England and I love it. My range is about 30% less than
it should be due to the cold but I kind of expected that and I just plan my
trips accordingly. Like most M3 owners (I think) 99% of the time I charge at
home anyway.

Pre-heating definitely takes it's toll.

The flip side of that is it pre-heats faster than any car I have ever owned.
30F to 70F in 15 minutes. And as a bonus I can pre-heat it in my garage
without poisoning myself.

I haven't had the door handle issue. My understanding is it is a lot to do
with the fact it is recessed and there is nothing to grab onto to break the
ice / plus the ice can get behind the handle. But the window sticking issue...
I had an Audi with a frameless window and that happened on it too.

BUT... and this is a big but... I have a garage for my car and the coldest it
has gotten this year where I am is -3F (and that was in the middle of the
night). Which is nowhere near as cold as the polar vortex temperatures.

Edit: My biggest complaint with it is actually the build quality. The gap
between the door and the frame is huge in some places and the exterior paint
quality leaves something to be desired. Plus for some odd reason the web
browser in the dash sometimes requires a system reboot to work which sounds
like no big deal but there are a lot of cool web based "apps" for Tesla cars.
But overall, I am extremely happy with my purchase.

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jondumbau
i think you'll find that the M3 name is already occupied.

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trymas
So what is the exact problem?

Batteries - everybody knows that the voltage drops in cold weather. This is of
course big issue in the electric cars, but is an issue with a gas cars too.
Bellow -20C, you will start to feel that it's harder to start a car, even with
rather fresh battery.

Car door handles, what the hell is this problem? You need to lube door handles
and door rubber gaskets (sorry if terminology is wrong) for probably every car
if you do not want to have _any_ trouble in seriously cold weather. Stickier
door handles or door freezing to the car's body is usual occurrence for me
every single winter.

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perl4ever
"Car door handles, what the hell is this problem?"

Teslas have door handles that work differently from ordinary cars, and that
seems to cause problems with freezing weather. Different models have different
mechanisms, but the root cause seems to be the desire to have the handles lie
flush for the sake of appearances.

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freshfey
Actually I think it has less to do with appearance and more to do with
efficiency as every mm counts in an electric car drag coefficient.

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jeffwass
Why wouldn’t ICE cars be equally affected by car drag coefficients?

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audunw
They are, but range is not as big of an issue with ICE, so less pressure to
optimize drag coefficient

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ams6110
Winter temperatures are just something people should be aware of if they're
thinking about electric cars. If you live in a place that often has extreme
cold during the winter, an electric vehicle may not be your best choice.

Any vehicle can have difficulty in extreme cold, though with an ICE engine, if
it starts, it's generally okay after a short warm-up, and gasoline doesn't
lose range by getting cold.

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xedeon
It's not really just about being able to "start". Winter temps can affect
fuel/energy efficiency of ALL cars regardless if they are EVs or not. ICE cars
can lose somewhere between 22-34% in range.

Source:
[https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/coldweather.shtml](https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/coldweather.shtml)

~~~
jondumbau
i think its worth noting that at least the summary presented on this page
could be sliced into two sections

1: different usage of accessories to make the occupants comfortable, e.g.
warming up interior for longer, running heated seats... 2: physical changes
that affect the overall car: denser air resistance, higher rolling
resistance..

the one point that is specific to an ICE engine is friction from running
colder oils, the rest seem to apply to both ICE, hybrid and electric vehicles,
the latter two more so.

overall the takeaway seems to be that most losses in an ICE vehicles are not
about the powertrain, whereas a hybrid/electric vehicle has almost all the
losses of an ICE vehicle but with significantly more battery degradation.

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purplezooey
"I paid $60,000 to not drain my battery so quickly."

thats your own damage, dude.

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Tade0
Friendly reminder that at -40C(-40F) the air is 27.5% denser in comparison to
room temperature, so highway range should be affected roughly proportionally.

Also at least a few times in my life during a cold snap I arrived to a car
frozen shut. It is this thing that happens sometimes.

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jve
Handles seems no fun.

As for loosing some battery charge overnight - if possible, car should be
plugged. It heats the battery after all and it is very good for overall
battery health and longevity.

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heyjudy
You're so very wrong. You're suggesting how to potentially wear-out and
overcharge li-ion battery tech, not improve it.
[https://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/how_to...](https://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries)

~~~
MertsA
He's spot on. Tesla vehicles heat up a cold battery pack when charging and
IIRC Tesla suggests an upper charge limit of 80% for daily driving to minimize
any additional wear from keeping it at a high state of charge all the time.
The best approach is to plug it in and have it only charge to 80% and leave
thermal management to the car, it will heat up the pack if it needs it instead
of just charging it cold.

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jve
It even heats battery even unplugged. Thus draining those miles at night.

Tesla really does good job to keep the battery in shape.

[https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-
dat...](https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-data/)

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Camillo
Do batteries suffer permanent damage from getting that cold?

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Neil44
I don't know about Lithium batteries, but lead-acid ones have an interesting
thing where their freezing point is much lower if they are fully charged. The
acid concentration is higher and works like antifreeze. If you let it go flat
the concentration drops, and the physical expansion from the water freezing
just destroys the thing.

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xedeon
I don't get why this is even a story. This is not exclusive to Electric Cars.

TLDR: (Internal Combustion) Car Mileage Drops By 22~34% In Winter For Short
Trips
[https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/coldweather.shtml](https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/coldweather.shtml)

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fluxem
Tesla's door handles - designed in California.

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alsadi
I guess Prius is not affected. But Prius is borning.

