
Mentoring in Gaza's first hackathon - dopeboy
http://dopeboy.github.io/gaza/
======
this2shallPass
>>6 The gulf (UAE, Saudi, Qatar, etc) is the regional tech hub.

I would imagine Israel is the regional tech hub, even if there are few to no
interactions with tech people in Gaza. Would it be more accurate to say the
gulf is the regional tech hub for these programmers' day to day lives?

~~~
cm3
Does anyone know how the IT sector is in places like Dubai? I hear about a lot
of need for skilled programmers there, but it's hard to glean insight from
Europe. Anyone with first-hand experience?

~~~
Cyph0n
I'm living in the UAE. As far as I can tell, there is a growing demand for
skilled developers, especially in web and app dev positions. Most companies
hiring are small in size, usually local startups, and most of them are
operating in the e-commerce space.

Cool places to work at: Dubizzle[1] (Python + Django) and JadoPado[2] (PHP I
believe).

[1]: [https://uae.dubizzle.com/](https://uae.dubizzle.com/)

[2]: [https://uae.jadopado.com/](https://uae.jadopado.com/)

------
jalami
My father was born in Gaza, but got out as soon as he could and went to
college in the states. I'm glad this is happening! There's certainly talent
there like everywhere else. A big problem I see with Gaza digging itself out
of these problems is the destruction of infrastructure, inability to get
supplies and the effect this has on the job market. Software development is
one of those few professions that, as you touched on, allow Palestinians to
find a somewhat stable flow of work.

Thanks for mentoring and doing what you can there. I'd like to go and see some
extended family sometime myself.

Edit: How available are things like computers? I remember when my dad brought
electronics over as gifts it was usually something more-or-less unattainable,
but this was years ago: Super Nintendos and things like that.

~~~
dopeboy
I didn't inquire but based on what I saw inside the incubator, it seemed
computers were pretty available. The only iffy thing when it comes to access
are 3D printers.

------
iamcreasy
" _I met a Gaza Sky Geeks staff member who told me about his story. His
parents had to flee their ancestral home from Jaffa in 1948. He lost his
childhood home in the war of 2014. He also lost friends and neighbors in the
war.

Despite all of this, you would never be able to guess of any of his past after
talking to him. In fact, the only reason I knew to talk to him is because I
overhead someone else mention his past. He’s the most upbeat, jovial guy at
the space who was on his way to the U.K. in a couple days with an eye on a
seed round for a startup he’s working on. One might expect atleast some chip
on the shoulder, some bitterness, maybe even a little anger. I haven’t seen
that from him or any of other Gazans I’ve met and that—more than anything
else—has been the biggest surprise for me on this trip._"

This is amazing.

~~~
kobayashi
The author does a pretty good job of keeping politics out of his article, but
my visceral feeling is that you're trying to do quite the opposite here by
choosing that specific quote.

The author does not know the history of the land, nor does he claim to. But by
drawing HN's readership to the quote about personal loss it's my guess that
you're trying to politicize the issue. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's my hunch.
I've seen many people use similar tactics before.

~~~
iamcreasy
This guy has suffered, but instead of complaining he is pushing through it. We
all have our problems, but since ue live in a personal bubble, examples like
this can help us put our problems in a new perspective.

I am drawing attention to the amazing human resiliency, and what can we learn
from it.

------
aidos
What was the process like in terms of applying for the Israeli military
permit? Did you experience any problems with border control moving in and out
of Israel/Gaza? Did you take your own laptop? What's the internet like? I'm
assuming you don't get mobile coverage?

 _There are ground rules every mentor had to agree to before going. We could
not go anywhere unaccompanied_ \- Who's rule is this?

So. Many. Questions!

~~~
dopeboy
For the permit, all the basics + scan of passport, LinkedIn URL, my parents'
names, and my paternal grandfather's name (!).

No one had any problems at the border. Everyone is super professional and
courteous. Those that were muslim and/or of palestinian decent took slightly
longer.

I took my own laptop. The only different thing is you have to leave it open
(but not unlocked) when it goes through the scanner.

We were mostly confined inside the incubator or a hotel so we had wifi most of
the time. I _think_ it's 2G or 3G otherwise. Not sure if by an Israeli carrier
or a Palestinian one.

The rules are set by the parent organization, Mercy Corps. They receive the
bulk of their funding from USAID and my guess is those ground rules are
impacted by that.

~~~
k-mcgrady
>> "LinkedIn URL, my parents' names, and my paternal grandfather's name"

Any idea why this info is required?

~~~
daniel-levin
It's a special case of a more general (Israeli) bullshit detection technique.
They'll ask something unexpected, but reasonable enough that an honest person
would be able to say the answer immediately. The idea is that you bait a
person presenting false information into revealing that they are lying.
Security will ask a sequence of inane questions that a truthful person should
be able to answer immediately. If a person being questioned grows shifty,
nervous-looking, starts sweating, stops making eye-contact, or shows any other
sign of illegitimacy, then the questioning will continue until (il)legitimacy
is established. It is not a flawless method (see end of comment) but it
usually works. It is virtually impossible to nail every single aspect of a BS
story. If you're 100% legitimate, then you'll probably have no problems
recalling things like your grandfather's name or the synagogue you were Bar-
Mitzvah'd at. I'm a pale South African Jew - I was asked that.

Example:

Security: Are you a member of a Hebrew congregation?

Person: Yes, such and such a synagogue

Security: Who is the Rabbi there?

A legit person might say "Oh it's Rabbi so-and-so", but if a person hesitates,
and has to think, and blurts out an answer like "Rabbi Cohen" then it is less
likely they are being forthcoming.

In some sense, this is a very rough mental-Bayesian process of probability
updating. A person arrives at the border / El-Al check-in. Security assigns
some prior probability p_0 that a person should be allowed access, and via a
string of questions, amongst other techniques, a posterior probability p_n
that that person should be on that flight / in Israel is established.

------
Myrmornis
Excellent write-up and well done for doing this!

Were there any female instructors? If there had been some could they have led
a female-only session in the evening?

~~~
laughinghan
Context:

    
    
        On the first day of the 48 hour hackathon, all female participants had to
        leave by 6:30 PM. This is because, under Sharia law, women cannot hang out
        with men they are not related or married to late into the evening.
    

(For people like me who glance at the comment thread before reading the
article, or who merely skimmed the article.)

~~~
danharaj
Seeing "Sharia law" referred to as a definite entity is a little strange. It's
like someone saying "under common law...". It's cromulent, but only on general
principals not many specific statutes. There are several countries that follow
Sharia, just like many countries follow civil law or common law.

Relevant here because there are countries that follow Sharia that don't
enforce such a curfew.

~~~
eli_gottlieb
Does anyone have a definite idea which school of Sharia jurisprudence Hamas
even follows?

------
bbcbasic
This is turning into a very interesting AMA. Thanks dopeboy.

I wanted to ask if you felt in any danger at any time. Either in Gaza on
onroute through the checkpoints?

What are the ambitions of the participants? Do they want to work / set up
companies in Gaza or work abroad?

~~~
dopeboy
I never felt in danger. But I'm also brown and everyone there told me I look
Arab.

It's a mix - I couldn't tell you the proportions off the top of my head. There
are hard emigration realities that force Gazans to do the former.

------
judah
I work part-time for an Israeli tech company and am a Zionist; I assumed your
post would be ultra political and demonizing Israel.

Instead, I was pleasantly surprised to see your post was thoughtful, kept
politics out of it and remained focused.

You're helping Gazans live better lives by teaching them a trade skill. That's
a real kindness you did. Kudos.

~~~
cloudjacker
I saw a presentation in person about this at one of Google's Startup
conferences. I had to ask a ton of logistical questions like if they used the
Israeli business formation and banking system to get funds in for seed rounds,
turns out they use the UK and US because "f-ck that noise" lol

so I found that interesting.

------
askafriend
You got any keys sittin' in the trunk or do I have to come back next week for
the fresh batch, dopeboy?

On a more serious note, this sounds like an amazing experience and I'm very
glad you decided to share it with us.

That's very interesting the type of technology experience you saw in the crowd
there. Surprised you didn't see more Python, iOS/Android, or any of the
Javascript frameworks like Node. The internet cutting out with the electricity
must have sucked though. Especially for people without generators.....how are
you gonna Stack Overflow?!

------
tuna-piano
Great writeup.

You touched on it - but was there much political talk at all? Or was it just
the normal kind of conversations?

How was their english?

~~~
dopeboy
There was - and I usually started it. I deliberately left them off this piece.

There's general angst against Hamas. There's universal mistrust of Israel.
There's a good deal of division on how to engage with the Israelis / what to
negotiate for.

Their English is good. They could understand everything I said. Sometimes it
took them awhile to express certain words and phrases. During the hackathon
pitches, about half the teams opted to speak in Arabic. In these instances,
judges were paired with translators.

~~~
meric
The only times I read about Gaza is when Israel had just invaded it, pictures
of dead bodies and bombed out buildings. Having never seen any description of
what it's like inside, reading its name brings up thoughts of suffering and
sadness and nothing else.

Thanks for writing this up and taking those photos. I could not have imagined
there are places in Gaza that are just like my own office. It looks like a
great place to be.

~~~
e12e
Your comment reminded me of Banksy's recent short film (spoof advert) on Gaza:
"Make this the year YOU discover a new destination"
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3e2dShY8jIo](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3e2dShY8jIo)

------
bjourne
Wouldn't it be cool if there was street view in Gaza? If you search for Khan
Yunis you find lots of pictures of dead bodies and smoking buildings, but
absolutely nothing about what the city actually looks like.

------
Myrmornis
Are there any relevant internet restrictions?

Is there any program for remote google-hangout type help, or remote buddy
system, or something?

~~~
dopeboy
I didn't test the limits. All the social media and news websites that I use on
a daily basis were accessible. The only interesting thing I can say is I did a
visual traceroute and all traffic was routed through Ramallah which is in the
West Bank.

Everyone used Skype for remote work.

------
Myrmornis
What was the educational background/level of the participants? Where did they
get programming skills from?

~~~
dopeboy
Most were in university or had recently graduated. They got their skills from
there.

------
faizmokhtar
Wow, this is an awesome write-up. Kudos to you.

------
blisterpeanuts
Really interesting. Shame that they can't deal directly with Israelis, with
all of their start-ups and like-minded technology types.

~~~
rangibaby
I can never reconcile my respect and admiration of Israeli achievements in
technology with my disgust at their horrible treatment of the Palestinians.

~~~
golergka
I'm struggling to imagine a single country in the world that would act as
humane as Israel in a similar conflict.

~~~
typon
Im struggling to understand what people hear when Amnesty International
declares Gaza as worst humanitarian disaster since 1967.

"It could be worst, at least they aren't gassing them in camps"

~~~
golergka
Apart from AI's dubious record on that — you understand that these two
statements about the conflict are not mutually exclusive, right? Of course
Gaza is a humanitarian disaster, even extremen right-wingers would agree with
you on that.

------
maciejb
Great story! Thank you for sharing your experiences!

I'm curious how did you find out about the event in the first place?

~~~
dopeboy
A friend at Google passed it along. She was on a particular mailing list and
it caught her eye.

Google for Entrepreneurs provides some financial assistance to Gaza Sky Geeks
which is probably why they put it in the mailing list in the first place.

------
stale2002
"On the first day of the 48 hour hackathon, all female participants had to
leave by 6:30 PM. This is because, under Sharia law, women cannot hang out
with men they are not related or married to late into the evening."

Why am I not surprised.

~~~
ahaseeb
There is no as such sharia law that prohibits women to be back by 6:30.

~~~
stale2002
Well apparently someone is enforcing these rules. And it is clear that Hamas
supports thus enforcement

------
inglor
I'm an Israeli, I'm also a NodeJS core member and an open source guy with a
lot of web experience. I've contacted Gaza Sky Geeks multiple times and
offered assistance.

They took almost a month to reply. Apparently, Israelis are not welcome. It's
a shame that my only way to experience my neighbors is through serving in an
armed forces war.

~~~
curiousgal
I dated a Tunisian guy once and he was also frustrated he couldn't get into an
Israeli university solely because of his nationality. This whole rift saddens
me.

~~~
inglor
I agree - it is equally frustrating. If you send me his contact information
I'll see if I can contact some people from my university and see if there is
something that can be done.

~~~
curiousgal
That is truly nice of you. However haven't contacted the guy in years. Thank
you though! The world needs more people like you.

------
astronautjones
this is awesome. do you think you or anyone you worked with might be affected
by that terrible anti-BDS law Cuomo passed (if you were in its jurisdiction?)

~~~
wprapido
BDS/anti-BDS has nothing to do with prohibiting working in palestine and
traveling to palestine. actually, the BDS movement affects israeli businesses
in west bank by boycotting them

~~~
slavak
The BDS movement seeks to boycott all Israeli businesses, irrespective of
their location.

~~~
wprapido
it does. but it hits the west bank businesses harder than others

------
throwaway223223
So very true. I think if Mexico and Canada not only declared dead their intent
to destroy the US but also decided to shoot rockets onto civilians on a daily
basis (as does Hamas launches from the Gaza Strip), there would definitely be
a tough response should they not stop (as the military invasion of Gaza). One
also needs to consider that Israel offers cost-free, no-strings-attached
medical care to Palestinians who show up at their borders with Israel. Israel
also provides the Hamas regime and Gazans with power, water, and internet
connectivity, all of this despite being fired on daily, having their civilians
kidnapped and attacked by smuggling tunnels dug straight into Isrsel's
territory, and being threatened with destruction. I definitely don't agree
with many decisions the Israeli government has made, but despite what many
believe, Israel definitely supports the Gazans and Wesr Bank residents in many
ways.

~~~
Synaesthesia
Israel has occupied Gaza and West a bank, and resistance to military
occupation is legal per the Geneva conventions. Gaza has always resisted the
Israeli occupation hence it's punishment. There are continuous attacks upon
Gaza from Israel too. The disparity in armed power and thus destruction is
massive. In the last Gaza war about 20000 tons of bombs were dropped on Gaza,
whereas what they launched against Israel was maybe a few tons.

~~~
Papirola
1\. Israel is no longer in control of Gaza 2\. if you're going to fire stuff
at a x1000 stronger military power, then maybe it's time you made better
decisions (ref: peace deal made by Ehud Barak back in 2000, which Arafat sunk
for no good reason)

~~~
Synaesthesia
Israel is in control of Gaza, as recognized by most observers. It controls the
airspace, sea, and everything that goes in and out, as well as of course the
continuous incursions into the territory.

According to the ceasefires which Israel has signed with Hamas, it's supposed
to alleviate the siege on the strip, but it has never lived up to those
ceasefires, whereas Hamas has. Continuing to devastate the territory
economically, of course the people there will revolt!

~~~
blisterpeanuts
Are you joking? If you lived next to Gaza, how could you trust them? They
repeatedly have said they want to _destroy_ Israel, in speech after speech,
thousands of rockets fired indiscriminately into Israeli towns and villages,
dozens of attack tunnels dug, and it's in the Hamas charter that Israel must
be destroyed. There's some evidence that ISIS is now operating in Gaza, and
some Gazan Arabs have gone to Iran for combat/terrorism training.

If not for the extremists controlling the Strip, and dominating the hearts and
minds of its residents, Gaza could be a high tech paradise: foreign investment
there could be huge, with Israeli factories and tech centers set up,
agricultural enterprises, and billion dollar Mediterranean resorts along the
gorgeous coast.

~~~
Synaesthesia
The idea that Gaza is a threat to Israel is not true, Israel has a huge,
sophisticated military. It is Israel which is the threat to its neighbors,
it's launched many wars. Israel has preached the same kind of destruction
about Gaza and actually carried it out.

Regarding the history of Israel and the Palestinians, You should look at the
history of the occupation. In the Gaza Strip, the 5m high walls concrete walls
between the few thousand settlers who use way more resources, occupied about
1/3rd of the land, while over a million people lived around them in poverty.
It's very cruel and brutal apartheid/imperialism by Israel understandably made
Gazans angry. Things like arbitrary detention, mass torture of Palestinians,
assassinations and so on which are the underpinning of the military
occupation, this is what pushes people to extremism.

~~~
stale2002
Well the walls have been working fantastically well for Israel. Suicide
bombings just don't really happen anymore. Yeah sure, the knifings have been
going on, but those kill a lot less people.

15 years ago there used to be a bombing every week.

~~~
Synaesthesia
The suicide bombings only came after attacks by Israel, each one was a
response for an attack by Israel, for example attacking apartment buildings
with helicopter gunships. That's important to remember - they have a context.

Yes the wall is working well for Israel, it's annexed more of the West Bank by
default, and is disrupting the lives of Palestinians massively, and also the
migration of wildlife.

There's been quite a lot of violence lately, death toll is still pretty high
since late 2015.

------
dannypgh
Political talk is abnormal? The number of conversations I've had about Trump
recently must make me an outlier, then.

~~~
dang
We detached this subthread from
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11859233](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11859233)
and marked it off-topic.

~~~
dannypgh
Perhaps I should have been more direct with my point: I think it is
disrespectful to Palestinians to expect that their "normal conversation"
doesn't include any sort of reference to their political realities, as
political realities are part of everyone's normal, in any society that acts
even under the pretense of democracy (and Hamas was elected).

It would have been odd if people living in a territory that had electricity
for six hours daily and mostly closed/highly regulated borders didn't have
normal conversation about topics that are, inherently, political.

~~~
bbcbasic
I think you are overanalyzing the post that used the word "normal". I think
he/she was talking colloquially and didn't mean to imply that political talk
is abnormal.

------
partycoder
The Gaza strip is an enemy state of Israel so, if you are Israeli, you
immediately lose your citizenship by entering the Gaza strip (or any of the
other enemy states).

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_nationality_law#Cancel...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_nationality_law#Cancellation_of_citizenship)

~~~
bpodgursky
> cases in which the state can initiate a cancellation of citizenship of an
> Israeli citizen

That is not the same thing as "you immediately lose your citizenship". Does
this actually happen frequently?

~~~
ars
Israelis go to Gaza all the time - typically Muslim relatives, and sometimes
aid workers.

------
wprapido
amazing story, dude!

