

Ask HN: Is Spamming the only way to get users? - rush-tea

Last week we heard about how Path spams its users by contacting every single one of the users contact in the address book.  Even now FB is blocking Path API access to FB friends.<p>Previously, we heard the same thing about airbnb, that airbnb spams Craigslist by making fake ads and then ask users to go to airbnb.<p>So now at least we know 2 startups that made its way to glory by spamming. I mean, yeah, users acquisition is part of the game, but I wonder if to be succeed, you have to play 'dirty' and spam along the way.
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keenahn
User acquisition is probably the biggest challenge for an early-stage startup
(<http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html>). Your definition of "spamming," is
pretty broad.

"Spamming" by itself is not malicious. In the case of Path, the app is only as
valuable as my network of friends who is on it, so you can be damn sure I'm
going to invite them. In the case of AirBnB, people saw the ads, signed up and
ostensibly got value out of AirBnB, so what was the harm?

Not sure what your problem with "spamming," is (even though you have provided
two examples that are pretty different), but I imagine that yes, startups will
continue to grow at all costs because they have to in order to survive.

~~~
rush-tea
My definition spamming is by market your product to untargeted audience. for
path example, it's clearly the contacts in your address book is untargeted
people as they have no interests in Path.

As for airbnb, this is more like junk emails, where everything is automated,
fake, and you just pray that you can get 1-2% hits. yes, it's kind of targeted
audience since the users are clicking the ads, but the ads itself is a FAKE
ads because it does nothing but directs you to another site, just like the
nigerian million dollar spam. I mean airbnb is a real site, but the ads
content is 100% fake. maybe phishing is a better word than spam.

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dangrossman
Airbnb essentially just e-mailed people that listed rentals on Craigslist with
a message that said "hey, you should list this on Airbnb.com too". You could
call that spam, but there's nothing fake about the content of the message, nor
is the linked website purporting to be anything it's not.

~~~
martey
"... _there's nothing fake about the content of the message,_..."

It has been almost 2 years since this story broke, so I think it is beneficial
to read the original article and the HN comments that appeared at the time:
<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2603844>

I think nhagen - <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2604918> \- summed up
what is wrong with the emails best:

" _I don't hate that they did this, but I hate that they tried to pretend they
were anonymous women that happened to really like AirBnB. Why be so shady
about it and instead why not just be honest?_ "

I think it is clear that AirBnB also understood that the Craigslist messages
were not above board, based on the apology that Christopher Lukezic, their
spokesman, sent to several news publications.

" _We have since learned that some of these remote contract sales people were
apparently aggressive with their outreach and may have used Craigslist to
attract customers to our service who were not open to solicitation. This is
not a tactic we condone or endorse, and it is our policy to forbid such
actions._ "

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jtcchan
2 startups is hardly enough evidence to say that's the only way of acquiring
users.

Besides, if the "spam" is actually helpful and appropriate, what is spam to
you may be a welcomed way to learn about a new product for another person.

That said, never trust a marketing messaged signed by the Prince of Nigeria.
;)

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tptacek
Who did Instagram spam? Would you rather have been Instagram or Path?

~~~
FramesPerSushi
Who did Facebook spam? Would you rather be Facebook or Instagram?

I don't have a strong opinion on this topic, just pointing out a flaw in your
logic.

~~~
tptacek
Who did Facebook spam?

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ceeK
I don't know the history, but the social network movie highlighted the
spamming of his college network through email.

~~~
jplewicke
I wasn't inconvenienced by it, but I remember myself and everyone at Dartmouth
receiving a single email inviting us to join Facebook at the same time
somewhere in the early winter of 2004. It wasn't a viral action like "your
friend has added you", but was instead a direct invitation to sign up. I
remember my roommates and I all immediately signed up and wasted the first of
many hours on there.

I think the email was from another Dartmouth student, so I assume they just
paid someone to send the entire campus an email.

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momchenr
Wait, I thought AirBnB called it 'growthhacking'.

