
My car was damaged with FlightCar and they don't care – here's the 3-month story - mikeyla85
https://www.facebook.com/michael.morgenstern/posts/10100906573381481
======
jacquesm
I really don't get this concept. Never ever would I entrust a total stranger
that I haven't even met with an expensive piece of machinery. You have zero
control over what happens when you're not there and your car could easily end
up being totaled, broken (in ways not easily seen immediately) or used in ways
that conflict with the law. Sure, the 'middleman' will tell you it's all just
fine and they're insured and what not. But in the end it's _your_ problem to
fix it if things don't work out and it won't take very much to offset the
gains from going this route in the first place.

I love the basic idea behind the sharing economy, way too much stuff lying
around unused. At the same time as a supplier of capital goods to that
industry you're taking an awful lot of risk.

Edit: I did some googling about flightcar reviews:

[http://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/www.flightcar.com](http://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/www.flightcar.com)

~~~
lumberjack
The whole "sharing economy" fad preys on people who don't properly understand
risk. When the cost of risk is factored in you get the price before the market
disruption.

~~~
xsmasher
Not if it allows you to bring unused/underused capacity into use.

------
kartman
I have had the same experience. The car was returned dirty and there was
damage on the body. They said they will pay me a measly $60. I asked for $180
since I spoke to a mechanic who said it will cost me that much in SF.

Since there was back and forth I said fine ok just give me the $60 saves me
hassle I will foot the rest. I have not yet received the check this was
several months ago.

Also another time we had left a credit card in the car by mistake. Someone ran
up $700 in charges. Luckily card fraud protection covered us. Flight car did
not give a crap when we reported it.

Don't use Flightcar, just take a shuttle or cab or whatever.

------
corywatilo
I will never forget the comment a disgruntled former Flightcar employee left
on my rant I posted about Flightcar.

 _I am a current flightcar employee so I will be anonymous.

I read your post and listened to your recordings and I will do my best to
break down whats going on a flightcar.

I am sorry to hear your experience...

Do not use flightcar or recommend flightcar to any one.

The CEO is a 20 year old kid and only interested in making money.

He moved the customer support to Philippines because he can get someone for
like 10-12$ an hr. Great idea.. right? Let's connect the customers who are
loaning flightcar a 30-40k car to someone in Philippines who does not
understand english or even knows what a floor mat is.

Check out this post on reddit -
[https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/3..](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/3..).

An email sent by an angry coworker -
[http://imgur.com/eGhDhXM](http://imgur.com/eGhDhXM)

Yelp reviews - [http://www.yelp.com/biz/flightcar-south-san-
fra..](http://www.yelp.com/biz/flightcar-south-san-fra..).

Glassdoor reviews - [http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/FlightCar-
Revi..](http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/FlightCar-Revi..).

The current working conditions are so shitty that my whole team hates our
jobs. And it is not just you, my team and I are badgered by angry customers
and we are just done and give 0 fucks to the customers. If your email is the
spam in zendesk, it means that one of the philippines reps didnot want to
respond to you and marked the email as spam so that the email disappears from
their inbox.

SOOO what can you do? \- Post your review to reddit, yelp, facebook and
twitter so no other customers go through this. \- Here is the CEOs number, you
can try to call him - 609-529-8346

I have a few interviews so I don't care if flightcar shuts down, I will be
leaving this hell hole very soon anyway.

You seem like a good guy, good luck and please read all the reviews before
participating in a shared economy in the future._

From: [http://watilo.com/open-letter-to-flightcar](http://watilo.com/open-
letter-to-flightcar)

------
victorology
Not surprised. Had a terrible experience with FlightCar. They didn't damage my
car but I rented one. Arrived at the airport after a 13 hour flight, went to
FlightCar, they said the car I was supposed to rent didn't come in. Told me
they would refund me, reimburse me for a rental but in the end, they didn't
reimburse me. Will never use them again.

------
calbear81
I'm still a bit confused about why anyone would rent out their car via
FlightCar when I normally see off-airport parking with a free shuttle costing
between $5 - $15 per day with discounts when you do weeklong or more.

The "whatever" attitude of people when it comes to taking care of rentals
would mean it's just way more trouble than it's worth for me to use. If you're
staying for a month or longer, wouldn't it be much more economical to just
take public transportation there or an Uber?

~~~
gojomo
Because the traditional parking costs $5-15/day, while FlightCar may be paying
you $5-15/day?

On a long trip, the difference could be hundreds of dollars in your favor –
helping to cover your car/insurance payments while your car would otherwise be
idle.

~~~
calbear81
Except for you are not accounting for wear and tear on your car. Flightcar
pays $0.05 per mile from SFO and says that the average daily mileage is less
than 40. So let's say your car is rented for 40 miles a day, that's a whopping
$2 you made. The biggest value comes from saving on parking which I think
makes sense for some folks who might have to drive to the airport but I would
think that anytime you are traveling more than a few days, a shuttle/uber/bus
is a much better option.

------
gojomo
I can believe there was a bad experience, but even _without_ seeing
FlightCar's response, this story doesn't completely cohere.

* The vanity-lights in the sun-visors shouldn't "short out" just from being "left open". (It might drain the battery, or shorten the life of the bulb... but simply being 'open' wouldn't/shouldn't cause damage.) The actual failure may have been due to lifetime wear & tear, or perhaps even atypical use prior to the rental period... in which case FlightCar's responsibility is murky.

* The VW dealer price for repair is insane. Yet even though customer is displeased at FlightCar having slightly overestimated the radiator/themostat fix cost (by $200), customer expects FlightCar to cheerfully accept highest-possible cost for his own reimbursement.

Doing what this customer seems to want – generous reimbursement for something
that isn't indisputably related to the incremental use during the rental
period – might not be tenable for the business even if everyone was acting in
good faith. And if FlightCar had a reputation for generous reimbursements, it
would also attract people acting in bad faith: blaming FlightCar for
preexisting issues that could be snuck by the check-in/check-out inspections.

The difficulty of tracking and resolving such issues may be a fatal flaw in
the FlightCar business model.

~~~
mikeyla85
Can't respond to your first point as I don't really know, but I've only used
those lights about three times in the lifetime of the car, so wear and tear is
a hard thing to state. Proving anything is anyone's fault is an issue whenever
insurance is involved, and generally comes down to trusting someone's word.

I definitely would take the car to another shop to get fixed, and the
FlightCar rep knew this. The disagreement was not over price, it was over
whether they'd cover repair at all.

~~~
gojomo
I, too, have a VW with such visor lights, and I, too, have probably used them
less than once per year in the last 7 years.

So if a friend borrowed my car and (somehow, improbably) 'broke' them
somehow... I might not notice for months.

Are you sure they were working when you dropped the car at FlightCar? (Was one
of the 3 times in 10 years that you used the visor-lights that same day, or
was checking both part of the explicit check-in inspection?)

~~~
mikeyla85
The last time I used them was earlier this year, around February. I opened the
visor before and after the trip (but not slid out the visor lights), to put a
garage clicker on it. The light was definitely not open.

~~~
gojomo
FYI: In my 2009 VW Tiguan, you don't have to slide the cover shut to turn off
the light. The light will also go off when the visor moves back up.

So I can easily believe – and in fact now think it's the most likely
explanation – that the renter slid the cover open and the light _didn 't_ come
on. Without the light on, there's no reason to even think the slider should be
closed. Someone unfamiliar with this mechanism might not even realize that
when everything is working, the slider works as an on/off switch.

~~~
mikeyla85
afaik that's not how it works in the 2006 Pasaat, you have to actually shut
the mirror door or it stays on, even if the car is off. The service rep said
this was fixed in later models.

------
to3m
Previously in FlightCar:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5526655](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5526655)
(I just remembered this because I recalled commenting - was it really 958 days
ago??)

~~~
the_hangman
Well, seeing as it's only been 958 days since they promised improved customer
service, we should really cut them some slack here..

------
harrisonjackson
I can sympathize with your frustration, but it sounds like your car was on the
cusp of all sorts of trouble when you left it with FlightCar.

I don't know their policies, but if I was the person renting your car - I
would have been extremely frustrated that FlightCar even accepted your vehicle
into their renting pool.

I do hope it all works out well for you though - and your story has
successfully discouraged me from leaving my car with any such service.

~~~
mikeyla85
Agreed, the car's radiator was definitely not happy. FlightCar's policies are
that they don't check or guarantee the condition of cars, which is a bit
ridiculous. Kind of like AirBnb but for a hunk of metal that can go 100mph.

For reference, it's a 10-year-old Pasaat with 65k miles on it. I expect big
repairs every once in a while, but some of this was actual damage.

------
guelo
The news to me here is that if you leave the visors down on a VW it could cost
you $1500. That's awful UX/engineering.

~~~
rconti
I think there's a lot left unsaid here. It's a short Facebook post, and the
author doesn't seem to be particularly well-versed when it comes to cars.

~~~
guelo
It's not that short. If he's trying to rile up internet anger against
Flightcar he needs to be forthcoming with what really happened.

------
Mz
We need a more pedestrian friendly world. And more pedestrians. People are
letting their legs go underused, not caring how it is killing them, then
worrying how they can monetize all their consumer purchases. Cuz: "Logic."

The world has basically lost its mind.

~~~
swozey
People don't use their legs because most people can't afford to live near
their place of employment. It's hardly just people being lazy.

The average travel time to work in the USA is 25 minutes. That's in a car.

And I'm saying this as someone who walks to work. I'm aware of how lucky I am.

[http://project.wnyc.org/commute-times-
us/embed.html#5.00/42....](http://project.wnyc.org/commute-times-
us/embed.html#5.00/42.000/-89.500)

~~~
Mz
Yeah, there is a reason that my _first_ assertion was _we need a more
pedestrian friendly world._

Before life got in the way, I wanted to be an urban planner. So I am not just
making stupid comments off the cuff. I have thought about the problem space
and studied it some, formally even. Plus gave up my own car some years ago.

Better public transit would help. We don't need to walk the entire way to have
a pedestrian life. We just need to be able to get there without a car.

------
LyndsySimon
> I took the car to a mechanic, who told me that it was impossible to tell
> whether the thermostat is broken without replacing the radiator first, even
> though FlightCar had wanted to fix both

This makes _no_ sense. Replacing the thermostat in most cars is a matter of a
$10 part and 15 minutes. You need a pair of pliers and a ratchet.

Meanwhile, the only reasons a radiator would warrant replacement would be
extreme buildup (indicative of _much_ bigger issues, like a blown head gasket)
or a puncture.

------
pm24601
What I don't get is why visor lights would cost so much and why would they
short out because they were left on. This says as much about VW as it does
about FlightCar.

Bummer about FlightCar.

------
mikeyla85
For those asking, here's the breakdown of the costs:

Sun visor (x2): 238.78 + 78 service Coin drawer: 215.43 + 195 service New key:
272.60 Key programming: 97.50 Sales tax: 85

Total: 1499.19

Of course, this is an official VW dealer and this repair could probably be
done more cheaply elsewhere, which I'd be happy to do. But the issue with
FlightCar hasn't been about price, it's been about whether they are willing to
cover these things at all.

------
stephengoodwin
My biggest concern with lending my car out to strangers is many insurance
policies don't give the replacement value of the car if it's totaled.
Typically to purchase an equal vehicle (based on year, mileage, condition),
you would need to spend up to 10-20% more.

Although, I've seen a few car insurance polices offer "gap coverage" at a nice
premium to make up for the difference.

~~~
ams6110
Not my experience. I've had three cars totaled over the years and always
gotten what I felt was a more than fair market value settlement. I've always
carried major-name insurance which isn't the cheapest but have always been
taken care of when I needed it.

People often get emotionally attached to their cars and are not realistic
about what they are worth.

Edit: I can easily see an insurance co. refusing to pay for damages caused
while you "rented out" your car, unless you are specifically insured for that.

~~~
PhantomGremlin
_always gotten what I felt was a more than fair market value settlement_

Yup. Me too, fortunately just one time.

I paid $20,000 for an Acura Integra. Five years later it was stolen. State
Farm gave me over $16,000. I'd love for that to be a more regular occurrence
(but not frequent enough that they'd cancel the policy).

------
whbk
Had a bad experience on the renting side including poor customer service and
shoddy operations - can't even imagine renting my own car, just look at their
Yelp reviews. One of those concepts I really wanted to be great, but just
hasn't happened. Sorry you have to deal with this.

------
yeldarb
Lots of complaints about flightcar here in the comments but I'll just chime in
that I had an excellent experience renting from them last time I was in SF.

It cost 3x less than any other rental company and I got a much bigger car and
it was a hybrid to boot so I saved on gas!

------
Spooky23
Why would one think about doing this? Sounds like the dumbest idea ever.

~~~
therealdrag0
Not if the insurance/support actually worked. I have nothing in my car. For me
it's literally just a driving box. I'd be happy if it could be used when I
wasn't using it, especially if that saved me 100+$ in parking fees.

