

Laptops: Mac vs WinXP/Ubuntu? - jyu

Is there something I'm missing?  I have tried to find good arguments for getting a Mac over Ubuntu/Windows, but haven't really found any that hold water.  I mostly do documents, presentations, spreadsheets, research, internet browsing, light programming.<p>The differences between them appear to come down to personal preference than an overwhelming difference:
-Security.  Mac and Linux have better security handling and less malware than Windows.  I use DeepFreeze, which can fight off even laughing kitty.
-Survives accidents.  Maybe there's a slight difference here, due to the sturdier frame/case of Macbooks?
-Performance.  I'm looking at response time, level of annoyance during daily use.  Vista is a bitch, but WinXP and Ubuntu seem great.  With similarly equipped laptops, Macbook seems on par or slower than WinXP, and much slower than Ubuntu.
======
bbb
I had been using a Linux laptop for over 6 years until it died last fall. Now
I'm using a MacBook and I'm absolutely loving it. Why?

\- Power management. Suspend and resume just works. The battery life is great.
Linux has catching up to do in terms of power management. (I know ACPI docs
are bad/non-existent, and that it's not the kernel hacker's fault, and that
lot's of things are improving. But my Mac does a better job right now when I
need it, and I didn't have to configure anything.)

\- Keynote. I need to give good presentations as part of my job, I need to
communicate ideas. Every minute I don't spend fighting my presentation tool is
an extra minute that I can spend on content and delivery. OpenOffice Impress
and MS PowerPoint drive me nuts. Keynote is so ... simple. It just works. It
has a decent interface. Well done animations are suddenly worth the effort
(and nothing explains a technical process as good as a well-done animation).

\- Presenting works. How many times have I seen people fail to get X11 to talk
nicely to a projector? Even (Linux) kernel hackers had that happen to them. If
they can't figure out X11, I sure don't want to risk to look unprofessional in
front of an important audience. With my MacBook, I just show up, connect my
Laptop, and it works. Every time.

\- It's still a real UNIX (unlike Cygwin). I've got Emacs, I've got bash, and
most of development work doesn't feel any different from what I did with
Linux.

\- It's got MacPorts. I thought I was going to miss Linux package management
tools, but MacPorts is just as good (if you don't mind waiting for the compile
to complete).

\- Time machine. Yes, I do know rsync. I do know cron. I do know all kinds of
tools. Did I use them regularly? No, I was too lazy, as I suspect most people
are. Have I lost data because of that? Yes, and it hurt. Now, I do a backup
every night when I come home, because it happens automatically. If I break my
MacBook, all I have to do to restore my old system (including all installed
programs and settings) is to hook up a new Mac to my backup drive. OS X will
do the rest, which is great since I bet that my hardware will fail just before
an important deadline...

So is all that worth several hundred dollars? For me, it is. Buying a MacBook
has taken away one more thing to worry about. I rely on it to just work, and
so far it has not let me down.

~~~
thwarted
Oh, and interestingly, suspend and resume work flawlessly on my MBP under
Fedora 9, without configuration. So yeah, this is still a hardware issue, and
when the hardware is good, it works fine.

~~~
jamesbritt
Ubuntu 8.04 on my Dell D830 has decent hibernation (never use sleep or
suspend, so I don't know it they are good).

It seems that assorted issues come up because of various hardware
configuration: video card, wifi, sound card, etc. But as of now I'm quite
happy with my Kubuntu laptop.

------
martythemaniak
If were buying a laptop today, it would likely be a Thinkpad + Ubuntu combo.

You get a nice, productive OS and reasonably priced, elegant and sturdy
hardware. What's not to like?

~~~
JeremyChase
I have to agree here. My personal t42p thinkpad running ubuntu 'feels' just as
fast as my work MacBook Pro. I also think the build quality of Apple laptops
is very inferior to the thinkpads.

However, the MBP is just more 'fun' to use. So if you have money to burn go
for the Apple. If you just need function, get an old x86 laptop and throw
ubuntu on there.

Jer

------
bernard
I think you're right, it all comes down to personal preference. I like macs
for their sturdy laptop, and osx unix like os.

I got fed up of loosing precious time configuring linux and researching for
100% compatible hardware. I don't like windows, it slows me down. Oh, one more
thing, I can get commercial grade apps like photoshop or microsoft words on
osx. We always need to be compatible with the rest of the world.

I do pay a premium for Apple laptop, but hey, they're good quality and I'm a
sucker for design.

------
jseliger
One strong reason is to stay upwind—with the Mac, you can also run XP and
Ubuntu, but not vice-versa.

The other major reasons for me, anyway, include Spotlight, Time Machine,
Textmate, and Terminal. The first two might not seem all that important, but
once you have them, you won't want to live without them.

And, if for some reason you hate OS X, which is uncommon but, I suppose
possible, you can consistently boot into XP / Ubuntu.

~~~
xtrimsky
Yes you can run Mac OS X on a machin, I installed it on my Dell and it worked
very good. Its just not easy to install, but than it is as good as a Mac.

~~~
ropiku
It's illegal and also you don't have full hardware support.

~~~
notauser
There is some confusion about just how illegal it is in the US. The EULA does
not permit it, but that isn't the same thing as it being against the law -
especially since the EULA is presented post-purchase. (This assumes you bought
your copy, of course.)

Still, until judgement in Apple vs Pystar (which is slightly broader) it would
be better not to assume anything. Common law systems can produce some funny
results and special cases. Just because you can drop a Ford engine into a
Toyota without fear of legal action doesn't mean it carries across directly to
software.

Being able to use software you buy however you wish with very little fear of
inciting legal action is a great argument for adopting Linux, of course :)

~~~
chrisbroadfoot
The EULA doesn't matter, IMO.

You violate the DMCA when you run OSX86. Certain OS X binaries are encrypted.

------
kajecounterhack
I love Ubuntu. 3 Years, no hitches after the first months. Only switched to
windows when it came free with my new laptop. Still dual boot Ubuntu, though.

------
xtrimsky
My personnal experience: -Windows Vista is not bad, my next Laptop is with
Windows Vista. Windows Vista only works bad on old hardware/software. -I have
worked on Mac OS X for 4 months, I will not buy a mac soon, here is why: Mac
is cool for new users, it is easy to use. But if you are a good Linux/Windows
user, you'll find that Mac OS X is a loss of time. I can do things faster in
Linux and Windows. For documents presentations, spreadsheets its pretty much
the same for Mac or Windows because they both use Microsoft Office. I
personnaly prefer Microsoft Office than OpenOffice. For internet browsing they
all have firefox, so pretty much the same. I don't know what you call exactly
light programming. For Web Developpement I think it is pretty much the same,
for Programs I love Visual Studio and I hate Mac OS X SDK Developer (or
something like that) so that gives you my opinion. And I think dual boots are
stupid, I prefer one perfect OS, so I'm not buying a Mac to put Windows on it.

~~~
jonknee
> If you are a good Linux/Windows user, you'll find that Mac OS X is a loss of
> time

I don't doubt this is true for you, but I fail to see your logic. Mac OS X
offers the power of Linux with vastly better user experience. OS X lets you do
all the powerful *nix stuff but at the same time saves you from having to hunt
for drivers and do tons of configuration. There's definitely something to be
said for Linux, but time savings isn't one of those things.

~~~
lincolnq
Better user experience? Not for certain kinds of work. If you're in the
terminal a lot, for example.

The OS X Aqua terminal really blows, and its X11 terminal isn't much better. I
never have any problems with terminal settings under Linux, but every time I
try to SSH under OS X some stupid thing happens like the Backspace key doesn't
work. X11 is balls slow under OS X, too. Under Linux I can install any
software I need in 15 seconds, whereas under OS X, if I need some library or
something, I end up searching the 'net and finding some random guy who
distributes such-and-such a package for OS X, and it always has a wonky
install process (which invariably makes it impossible to uninstall).

So yeah, Linux saves me a LOT of time.

~~~
lincolnq
I should point out that I do use OS X for games, web browsing, and casual
programming tasks. It's a good OS, but I can't live with it when I'm really
trying to be productive.

~~~
byrneseyeview
_I do use OS X for games, web browsing, and casual programming tasks._

It's been a while since I looked into games on Linux, but if this is correct,
things are worse than I could have imagined.

------
iuguy
I find that whatever environment you're most comfortable with is the best way
to go. I find that XP/Ubuntu are more comfortable for me than other
environments. I can use a Mac, but I find myself working against it (probably
due to experience) in times when I really need things to be straightforward.
It's a bit like learning Emacs for me, I can see that there's some power
behind it but I find it too different to vi to bother. In this case, my vi
would be Linux or Cygwin.

I'm not keen on Vista at all and would much rather use XP or even 2000. I
suspect I'll avoid it till Windows 8 comes out.

I also don't think that the price difference between a Mac and PC laptop is
justifiable, but different strokes for different folks I guess.

------
hs
I work on various hardwares (laptops, desktops, macs) so sometimes i need to
move an installed hard drive on one mobo to another different mobo

win98 hd can be used across, good luck with XP / Vista

iBookG4 tiger hd can be swappable to mac mini

ubuntu hd, i had occasions when it's not swappable (always kernel panic on
other mobo - must reinstall from _scratch_ )

OpenBSD always works (tm) on every mobo, even on my 10 yo XD380 thinkpad

BUT YOU CAN USE VMWARE!!! errr, i use simpler, OS / hardware independent tech:
VNC

my setup now is: win98 for legacies, win-only software / hardware mac mini for
fancier hardwares bluetooth, firewire, DVI etc

OpenBSD for development, VNC to win98 and Mac Mini (powerPC)

It used to be OpenBSD+Ubuntu ... However, time tweaking Ubuntu is better
invested in win98+mac ... i feel ubuntu is trying to be win/mac/BSD* and it's
weak in the three fronts -- weak identity, designed by committee for mass

you may think supporting 3 OS is more complicated; however it's not true

if the OS misbehave and need complete reinstallation: win98: i could just dd
if=win98 of=/dev/disk2 and it's ready in 10 mins _shrug_ osx: reboot from
install disc, format tiger partition, map the tiger-image and it's ready in
~30 mins OpenBSD: just do ftp reinstall, untar Site44.tgz and it's
_production_ ready in 15 mins Ubuntu: i dunno, ... i'll prolly waste another
hour+half or two reinstalling it

NB: Can u operate 3 OS (Win/OSX-powerpc/Unix) on a single machine? * BSD is
more powerful than linux ... err GNU/linux ... or should i say GNU/BSD ? ... I
dunno, i just want to hack and use the most powerful tools available, no time
for silly nerd politics

------
watmough
The Mac Dev tools kick ass, but if you want to stay cross platform (e.g.
Python or Java for example), then you are probably as well on Ubuntu as
anything else.

Certainly, if I had the same requirements, I might want a TP running Ubuntu.

If you like the Mac hardware (shiny, vents at the back, beautiful underneath)
get a Mac laptop, since you can run Ubuntu or Windows easily on it.

I'm really a Mac guy, but I run Ubuntu on my remaining non-Apple hardware, and
it works great. It always seems a tad smoother than OS X for mainstream Unix
dev, e.g. No faffing with Fink or Ports etc.

------
jamesbritt
Last laptop purchase had me seriously looking at macs, but I ended up getting
an OS-free Dell D830 because it offered 1920x1200 15in screen and the clit
mouse, both unavailable on macbooks.

I did spend a fair amount of time dicking with things to get a few things
working Just So, though Ubuntu 8.04 seems to have fixed most of my previous
annoyances.

------
bkmrkr
I got a mac HATE IT, there are 2 programs that I cant use so end up spending
95% of time in VMWARE.

Also tried to install bootcamp, but MAC os says can't move files and I need to
backup entire hd and then restore it. (MAC OS doesn't have defrag)

~~~
jonknee
Did you not know that two of your main programs weren't available for OS X?
Guessing by your use of MAC you didn't research much. Same for the defrag,
there are several utilities that can do that for you (or you can just copy
back and forth from a backup drive). iDefrag is a popular one, but I've never
used any as I have plenty of free space and fragmentation's not an issue for
me.

------
greyman
I think you can't go wrong with WinXP, and even Vista is OK. My friend uses it
on Laptop with one-core Intel processor and 1GB ram, and he was able to
configure it so it is booting and running as fast as XP.

~~~
alyx
If you could possibly provide more info as to how your friend did it. I'd
definitely be interested, my laptop needs a boost.

