

Ask HN: What will people pay money for? - davidjnelson

I tried the idea of picking a market, emailing executives from top companies in that market on LinkedIn, and asking for their pain points.  I didn't get any responses.<p>How can I figure out what to build?  My goal is modest.  500k a year profit without employees would be adequate.
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mindcrime
Cold emailing people and asking about their pain points is probably not the
best way to go. That said, you're on (sort of) the right path by understanding
that you need to find potential customers and talk to them early on, so that's
a good step.

What I'd recommend is this:

1\. Network, in person, as much as possible, and make real-world connections
with people. If you're not a natural schmoozer, don't sweat it, it can be
learned. Just go to events and talk to people. In the earliest phases, if
you're just trying to get comfortable doing that sort of thing, don't worry
too much about what kind of event, or what the person's title is, etc. Go to
Java User's Group meetings, go to Entrepreneurship Meetups you find on
Meetup.com, go to local Chamber of Commerce schmoozefests, etc, etc. If you
live in or near any reasonably sized city, there should be an event calendar
somewhere online that lists upcoming networking events. Seek them out and go
and talk to people.

2\. Leverage your _existing_ network of real world connections, as well as any
new connections you make, to make warm introductions for you, to other people
you want to meet.

3\. If you DO cold email people, don't just ask them to write up a thesis on
their pain points for you, and send it to you. You'd probably get more
traction saying something roughly like "I'm looking at creating a product
targeted towards (your industry | people in your position | whatever) and
would love to pick your brain for a little while. Could I grab 30 minutes of
your time in exchange for lunch (or a coffee / beverage of your choice)? I can
also share some really interesting research with you, that we've done in
regards to $FOO."

Note that that last bit is optional, but it is always good if you can offer
the other person something for their time. There _are_ people out there who
will sit and talk to you, either out of pure altruism, a desire to "give
back", or because it strokes their ego to think that you consider them
important, or a myriad of other reasons. But _quid pro quo_ is a pretty
powerful mindset and having something to offer is usually good.

Also, I think it would be good if you had at least a vague idea of an area you
want/expect to work in, and could develop some decent domain knowledge of that
area. This goes to credibility, and will be important in getting other people
to risk their reputation on you, which is what they are doing when they make
introductions to their connections, on your behalf. You need to impress people
as "someone who knows his shit and is worth spending time with" for best
effect.

I recommend reading Steve Blank's book _The Four Steps To The Epiphany_ as
there's a good section in there about what he calls "Friendly First Contacts"
which would be relevant to you. There are also a lot of old threads on the
Lean Startup Circle mailing list about how to get introductions, meet
customers, interview people, etc. Dig through those archives and you'll find
some golden stuff.

Edit: one last thing... there is something to be said for persistence, and
there are some gimmicks you can use to get a better response rate on cold
emails / letters. I'm not necessarily an advocate for either badgering people
or engaging in a lot of gimmicks, but don't be afraid to send more than one
email, and - if you feel the urge - send a handwritten letter and send it via
Priority Mail or Fedex or whatever. Or send a stupid little trinket (a plastic
bottle opener keyring thing or something) along with your letter. Chet Holmes
did a section on this on one of his DVD series, one he did with Anthony
Robbins. If you can get your hands on those videos somehow, he has a lot of
material on that "getting in the door" problem.

~~~
democracy
Great answer, thanks! I would also recommend setting a smaller goal of say 500
a month. If you can reach this goal and you get some understanding of your
industry, niche and audience, you will see if you have a chance to grow and
can invest more. O to 500k doesn't happen unfortuntely, even if you come
across an underserved niche with little competiton and huge margins you will
need partners, employees and "proper" business. Also as they me mentioned the
best route to take now is to become a supplier of your own needs, start with
what you personally need, be it computer games, dev tools, or anything else.
Good luck!

------
arash_milani
I assume you are almost doing something for living. May be you can come to
great ideas and pain points in your OWN business. Most of the great startups
started by founders scratching their own itch. You should be more alert while
living you daily life.

There is also another method suggested by Pual Graham think about your daily
task and imagine them 100 years later. How do you think they will be perfumed
in the future?

Also here is a recommended read for you if you hadn't read it before David
<http://www.paulgraham.com/startupideas.html>

~~~
davidjnelson
Thanks Arash for the fantastic resources and thoughts.

I have read that essay by PG numerous times.

I come up with lots of ideas, some I think are quite good. Unfortunately it's
hard to find one that I like so much that I stick with it all the way to
launch.

Even finishing an MVP is a lot of work, and I'm trying to do a better job of
researching up front so I don't waste time.

------
eduardordm
You either have to find a pain point or just jump into a saturated market with
a better product. There is always room for something polished.

For years I've been jumping from wpengine, to posterous, tumblr, blogspot,
trying to find a blogging platform that suited my needs. I never liked any of
them. So last week I was listening listening music on pandora and heard about
squarespace. And checked it later.

It is GREAT and cheap. I signed up and I'm a paying user.

The problem I have with pain points is: they are usually already covered or
are in a such niche market that are not viable.

~~~
davidjnelson
Thanks! What were your pain points, and how much do you happily pay?

~~~
eduardordm
I don't know (that's my point about pain points being useless - nothing really
bothered my on posterous or tumblr)

Their themes are not so great. Their interface looks good but has glitches.
The way they built their navigation system is awesome, but nothing that really
stands out. This is very subjective.

The vast majority of things people buys have nothing to do with solving
problems.

What pain point do moleskine notebooks solve? None. There are a myriad of
internet websites that sell the same thing: an idea, an illusion. And people
will buy it, happily.

That said, I think you shouldn't concentrate exclusively on solving problems
but maybe trying to 'overthink' people and creating something they would pay
for.

If you really want to cover some pain point, realize that people are usually
numb and do not realize that X could be solved with a service. Asking people
about pain points is useless, you need to watch them working.

------
Mz
_My goal is modest. 500k a year profit without employees would be adequate._

A) Maybe I am dumb, but it doesn't sound at all modest to me.

B) It sounds to me like you are lazy and expecting someone to hand you a get-
rich-quick scheme on a silver platter. Most folks who make that kind of money
actually work for it.

C) It sounds to me like you have it completely backwards and are in no way
looking to add value, you just want money. It generally doesn't work that way.
Even after you figure out how to do something of value that people want and/or
need, figuring out how to monetize it can still be a separate challenge.

D) Given the above, I will suggest that buying lottery tickets would be a
better bet than trying to start a business.

But feel free to prove me wrong on all counts. I have no problem eating humble
pie.

~~~
eduardordm
Why would you imply that this person is lazy? That's offensive. You should
apologize.

I'm sorry, but he doesn't have to prove anything to you, really. You read too
much into it, he probably has the idea that 500k in profits (not revenue) is
modest. That's all.

~~~
Mz
From what I gather, that's a heckuva lot of money even for the hn crowd. He
wants someone to tell him what to build to get that. He doesn't even want to
have to come up with the idea himself. Perhaps I am completely wrong, but
that's the impression I am getting here. If the OP wants to rebutt that and
explain to me why I am wrong, I am all ears. But your assessment that I am
"rude" is not evidence that my assessment is wrong. If my assessment is
correct, I don't think it does him any favors to feed his delusion there is
some easy answer.

~~~
mindcrime
_He wants someone to tell him what to build to get that._

I didn't read it that way at all. He said:

 _How can I figure out what to build?_

not

 _Tell me what to build to make 500K / year profit_

and he's already taken the initiative of emailing people asking about pain
points. It sounds to me like he needs / wants

A. a better process for finding / identifying pain points

and

B. some motivation

I don't see laziness here, just a lack of experience.

~~~
Mz
I would have been generally inclined to agree with your view except for the
closing line, which is why I quoted it. I don't know of any place in the world
where $500k/year in _profit_ with zero employees would be viewed as a modest
goal.

He asks "what will people pay for?" Maybe just poor construction of an ESL
speaker, but the title and other details look to me like he wants some easy
answer handed to him. Even his earlier methodology was to email people he
presumably felt should be in the know and ask for "pain points". If you can
find one, yes, sometimes people manage to get big returns. But if finding a
"pain point" and, moreover, good solution for it were as easy asking, I
imagine we would all be millionaires.

Further, I don't know what difference you think there is between "needs some
motivation" and "lazy". I don't get your point B at all.

~~~
mindcrime
_I don't know of any place in the world where $500k/year in profit with zero
employees would be viewed as a modest goal._

I never said it was a modest goal, and I don't see how that's relevant to what
I said. The OP may be ambitious, but that's fine. What I'm saying is that I
disagree what the OP is _lazy_.

 _Maybe just poor construction of an ESL speaker, but the title and other
details look to me like he wants some easy answer handed to him._

That was just the title, you have to look at what he actually _said_ in the
body of the post, and he clearly did NOT ask anybody to just hand him the
answer. That's what the body of a post does, ya know, it adds to / clarifies
the point(s) from the headline.

 _But if finding a "pain point" and, moreover, good solution for it were as
easy asking, I imagine we would all be millionaires._

Nah, because most people are too lazy to even bother doing the asking bit. The
OP has already shown more initiative than probably 99% of the population.

 _Further, I don't know what difference you think there is between "needs some
motivation" and "lazy". I don't get your point B at all._

Wow, I don't even know what to say to that. But whatever, believe what you
want to believe.

~~~
Mz
My last point was an honest expression of bafflement. I don't know what you
think is gained by trying to convince me I am wrong and then piss on me for
trying to say I don't understand something you said. Anyone who thinks I am
wrong can just answer the original question, which I am glad to see you also
did in addition to feeling the need to crab at me.

~~~
mindcrime
I'm not trying to convince you you're wrong. I think you're so wrong, you're
not even wrong, therefore I can't even respond to what you said in any
reasonable manner. Again, believe what you want to believe, it doesn't much
affect me one way or the other.

If you think that's "crabbing at you" or "pissing on you" then I think that's
more of a reflection of your worldview, outlook, personality, whatever, than
it is anything else. At any rate, I'm done with this line of conversation,
since it isn't benefiting anyone. Please, have the last word if you'd like.

------
dear
I suggest you find a job in the market you want to enter. After a few years
you should know what their pain is.

~~~
davidjnelson
Honestly, there isn't much pain that can't be solved by a good engineer doing
their job at the places I've worked. So I guess I could do consulting, but I
don't know how to get clients. And I personally find it more fun to build and
sell a product than to just do more programming for higher pay. There is
something special about owning something.

------
zeynalov
Actually you don't need a problem solving idea to start a startup. I wrote an
essay about ideas <http://www.vusal.me/essays/ideas/> which was a discussion
on HN some time ago.

~~~
davidjnelson
This is awesome, thanks. One of my current ideas is in this category:
"IDEAS/INVENTIONS THAT ARE BETTER VERSIONS OF EXISTING SOLUTIONS FOR PROBLEMS"

------
merinid
Study an industry. Be involved with it. In depth. Pain points are discovered
during research more than they are just handed to you.

~~~
davidjnelson
Thanks. How do you get involved in an industry?

~~~
merinid
If you want to build an app for traders, start trading yourself. If you want
to build an app for mass email campaigns, look for web marketing work to pay
for some R and D. Approach things practically, keeping the theory to a minimum
(though it's vital too). Really ask yourself who you have access to (friends,
colleagues) and what you are passionate about. Chances are that's the domain
your best ideas will apply to.

~~~
davidjnelson
This is good advice, thanks. I've been doing this.

