
Fired SendGrid Developer Evangelist Adria Richards Speaks Out - olivercameron
http://allthingsd.com/20130327/fired-sendgrid-developer-evangelist-adria-richards-speaks-out/?mod=atdtweet
======
mnicole
> What happened at PyCon has cast a spotlight on a range of deep issues and
> problems in the developer world.

What happened _at_ PyCon was nerds making nerd jokes. People talk to each
other at public events, even with people on stage, and the appropriate thing
to do is turn around and ask them politely to keep it down. That is all there
is to say on that matter.

What happened _because_ of what happened _at_ PyCon was the result of people
who have nothing better to do than form at-the-minute internet mobs of hate.
While we have a lot of growing to do as a community, it continues to
disappoint me that the Greater Internet Dickwad Theory as it relates to this
situation keeps being strictly applied to developers who I would wager were
actually a very small percentage of the actual trolls involved in harassing
her. Trolls that have been actively harassing anyone they so please for years.

The best thing about situations like this is that they give you a good excuse
to disconnect. To go off-the-grid to try to find yourself again. I would love
the opportunity to do such a thing myself and I think we all should; the
internet is a quickly moving rapids and it is easy to get sucked under. And
while I agree that maybe there should be a group that acts as a safe place for
people to shed light on their experiences and try to figure out how to combat
them, I don't think now is the time for her to try to say that she should be
an "integral part" of such a group. Especially because she used what could
have been a perfect opportunity for her to officially apologize to state how
hard of a week it has been for her, personally, and not for the man who lost
his job and the countless females for whom she claimed to be acting on behalf
of.

~~~
zzzeek
> and the appropriate thing to do is turn around and ask them politely to keep
> it down

there's been a rebuttal to this concept in the form of the #iaskedpolitely tag
on twitter. Not everyone is comfortable with direct confrontation in
situations like these.

~~~
mnicole
Without going to get into the specifics on how to handle situations that make
you uncomfortable, there is always someone you can go to, whether it be event
staff, venue staff or higher authorities if you really feel it warrants it.
That said, if your anxiety prevents you from standing up for yourself in the
first place, then that problem exists outside of the realm of this individual
situation and perhaps it is in your best interest to figure out why that is
the case and what you can do about it because this will not be the first, last
or worst of what life will deal you. Living in fear is the worst way to live,
something I am aware of first-hand. It should not hold you captive in your own
life. I wish the best to all of those struggling and hope they can find the
courage within themselves (and this is not to say there aren't some situations
where you're truly better off not saying anything to the accused at all).

 _That said_ , PyCon had specifically appropriated their CoC to ensure that
people had avenues to communicate problems they were having. The argument was
then "But _I'm_ the victim, why should _I_ have to get up and do something
about it when I did nothing wrong?" which just kind of boggles my mind. Do you
or don't you want to make the effort to report this? You will inevitably have
to spend time going over it face-to-face with event staff anyway, digging into
time you wanted to spend doing something else, so you might as well just get
it over with. Fortunately at events, someone will probably have recorded the
talk and you can just watch it later.

Hopefully next year there will be a way to report via SMS, although I suspect
that the ease-of-use that provides will bring about its own set of problems.

~~~
zzzeek
> Without going to get into the specifics on how to handle situations that
> make you uncomfortable, there is always someone you can go to, whether it be
> event staff, venue staff or higher authorities if you really feel it
> warrants it.

correct, talking to event staff is absolutely what someone should do if they
feel uncomfortable directly confronting someone. I just hope that people feel
comfortable doing this at next years Pycon, without fear of being ostracized
for "not asking directly first". I'm disturbed at the level of anger over the
idea of someone not being comfortable with direct confrontation.

Before you bring out the pitchforks, taking a photo and tweeting is _entirely_
the wrong move and I am not defending that action in any way. I'm only
referring to the concept that a safe conference place should be OK with people
talking directly to event staff.

> That said, if your anxiety prevents you from standing up for yourself in the
> first place, then that problem exists outside of the realm of this
> individual situation and perhaps it is in your best interest to figure out
> why that is the case and what you can do about it because this will not be
> the first, last or worst of what life will deal you. Living in fear is the
> worst way to live, something I am aware of first-hand. It should not hold
> you captive in your own life. I wish the best to all of those struggling and
> hope they can find the courage within themselves.

I have a lot of background in this area as well, and while it's always great
if people can learn to overcome all their issues and glide through all social
situations in an impressively adept style in all cases, it's not very
realistic. Everyone is only capable of being exactly where they are at in
their lives, and that should not be a reason to avoid conferences. (Edit: nor
is it realistic to assume that someone who is afraid to confront someone _even
has a problem_ \- fear is not intrinsically a disease, it is a mechanism that
very necessarily exists to protect the species from harm - it is only
excessive and unfounded fear that is a pathology. Direct confrontation is
absolutely not advised in many, many cases, and I'm sure you've had your own
experiences where this approach goes terribly wrong.)

------
jsnk
Not a single line of apology to a man's career she ruined, his family's
welfare, and damaging influence she's had on female developers and developers
in general. This reads like she's making martyr out of herself fighting for
some greater cause. I cringe of deceit and sheer lack of conscientiousness.

~~~
seivan
She was just trying to increase her branding, something to blog about,
something to attract page views, create a name for herself (and by proxy for
Sendgrid). She doesn't care whose (or is it who's?) toes she steps on.

That was her goal from the beginning, people like that don't really care, for
them it's a hustle.

This person was jaded to begin with. With her blog domain "butyoureagirl".
She's gonna cash in heavy on the whole ordeal of sexism in our field. She was
prepared.

It's odd, though, as a developer evangelist you'd assume she would have her
Github on "Connect with me" widget on the site.

LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook and even Youtube. But no Github.

"... she work to promote inclusivity within the developer community"

Yeah people like that aren't here for the code, they're here to cash in.
Branding baby.

The term conference hoe' comes to mind, you know, all gender neutral and shit.

~~~
seivan
Seriously though, I can't find her Github even if I try.

~~~
irahul
Here you go(first result for "adria richards github")

<https://github.com/adriarichards>

~~~
seivan
Thank you. My mistake was adria got autocompleted to adrian. I own that
mistake :)

------
ceejayoz
> I cannot comment at this time on the specifics of what occurred at PyCon on
> March 17, and the subsequent events of the following days, but I can offer
> some general thoughts.

This sounds a bit like a lawsuit brewing.

~~~
mstank
It definitely sounds like she is either in the early stages of a lawsuit or in
the process of bringing one against SendGrid. With her argument being that
'conference spaces are work places' and that she was fired because she
reported something that happened while at work.

This statement seems very pruned compared to her previous writing and blog
posts.

Although I'm kind of happy that this fiasco has shed some light on sexism in
technology, I'm glad to see that it has stopped snowballing into a circus.

~~~
redidas
The conference spaces are work places is an interesting angle, but would it
hold in her favor? Had she informed pycon sans tweets and blog posts I think
it'd be an easy win in her favor, but unfortunately that's not really all she
did.

Consider a workplace scenario:

Employee A is unhappy about coworker B. Instead of discretely talking to
management about it, Employee A publicly shames B. B is fired. There's a big
hoopla about it outside the company. Employer fires A stating that A can no
longer perform their job due to the way A handled B.

~~~
ktsmith
I would hope that a wrongful termination suit fails for the reasons you
mentioned, that doesn't mean it will though. I also don't think the conference
spaces are work places comment holds any water. If tickets to the conference
are open to the public then it is a public event. If your employer purchases
your ticket to a public event you may still be bound by workplace conduct
rules but should also have no expectation that other attendees will.

------
MikeKusold
I'm tired of reading about Adria. She messed up at PyCon by publicly shaming
the same people that she was supposed to be attracting to her company.

Was she fired for reporting sexual harassment? No. She was fired for making it
into a failed personal publicity stunt at the expense of her employer.

In an office environment, if you are the recipient to sexual harassment and
you don't feel comfortable confronting the individual, you go to HR or your
boss and discuss it. You do not send a company wide email telling everyone
what occurred.

~~~
greenyoda
Also, in an office environment, a single offensive remark, or even asking a
co-worker out on a date, generally doesn't qualify as sexual harassment; the
offender would have to repeat his or her behavior _after being asked to stop_.
(The exception would be someone's manager asking them on a date, which would
probably be against company policy from the beginning.)

------
teelo2
As a woman working in the tech industry (though I am not a developer), I
really agree with Amanda Blum's take on this situation. We are all damaged by
events like this.

It's a prime example of what happens when we defend and escalate an
uncomfortable situation rather than face it. Adria is definitely guilty of
that, having taken the issue public so quickly. But I am very confident that
the two men whose verbal comments prompted her response also allowed the
situation to escalate before changing their behavior.

I'm pleased to see those involved address the situation directly, honestly and
maturely. That's the only rational way to handle this sort of thing.

~~~
seivan
How did the men allow this to escalate? What did they do other than joke
privately between each other?

Maybe you mean them posing for shot she took without asking permission? Is
that it?

This was all In Adrians head, the woman is disturbed and lacks some serious
self awareness.

------
pchivers
"Those who know me well in the the developer and tech community recognize that
I have always tried to conduct myself in a way that builds bridges for
everyone."

I couldn't get through the first sentence without laughing. How does shaming
two men by posting their picture on Twitter qualify as "building bridges for
everyone"? I think she is lacking in self-awareness.

~~~
seivan
For her it's all about branding and cashing in. Even her blog domain suggest
that she's not here to code, but to create a name for herself in terms of
"sexism at workplace".

------
DasIch
The length of the statement is impressive considering that it does not contain
any information.

~~~
zalzane
It has probably been written by a lawyer.

The real question is what she thinks suing sendgrid is going to get her.
What's she going to try to do, bring a sexism case against them?

~~~
rdtsc
If she is not employable now I don't see how she'll be more employable after
launching law suits against her employers.

Now a speaking or media career maybe...

------
HarryHirsch
"What happened at PyCon has cast a spotlight on a range of deep issues and
problems in the developer world."

Read: Adria has been fired from her day job at Sendgrid but will continue to
be fine on the feminist lecture circuit.

------
davidbrent
Title should read: Fired SendGrid Developer Evangelist Adria Richard's Lawyer
Speaks Out

------
onemorepassword
Can't disagree with the statement as such, but some self-reflection would have
been nice.

Especially since we have multiple verified examples (not just PyCon) where she
chose destructive escalation over constructive dialogue.

------
mylons
Everyone needs to take this to heart right now:
<http://www.thatvideosite.com/v/2822>

Anyone else feel like this is going beyond political correctness? The article,
and her statement, are oozing with spineless statements. What happens when you
get offended? Nothing.

------
kabuks
I'm impressed by this statement.

Regardless of what you think of Adria's actions, it's not hard to imagine that
the last two weeks must have been hellish for her.

I think it's brave and noble for her to make (what seems to me) to be an
attempt at civil dialogue.

In effect she's saying: I want to keep talking about this, and including
everyone in the conversation. After all she's been through. That's an
impressive thing to say. Regardless of how many lawyers it got filtered
through.

~~~
irahul
> I think it's brave and noble for her to make (what seems to me) to be an
> attempt at civil dialogue.

> In effect she's saying: I want to keep talking about this,

To me, it looks like a statement prepared by a legal team.

------
gabipurcaru
Is it just me, or is her statement _not saying anything at all_ ?

------
sybhn
wow. She is the political beast! plays the color, minority and gender card,
prepares a lawsuit and plants the seed for a next career move. I don't know
anything about sendgrid, but the fact that they put up with someone like this
is much more of a turn off for me than the fact they mob fired her

------
mkr-hn
That is a remarkably level-headed statement considering all that's gone on. I
can already see the rage brigade firing up the oven, but maybe some good
discussion can happen here.

------
RougeFemme
I'm glad she didn't do a point-by-point rebuttal. At this point, most people
either agree, disagree, don't care or are sick of it all - or some combination
thereof. (I must admit, I do like the way she worked in "conference spaces are
work places".) Now I'm going back to my place _almost_ on top of the fence. .
.

------
jliptzin
Another reason I'm happy to be self-employed. It's just as likely to be me
making those dongle jokes, and I certainly won't be firing myself for doing
it.

------
irahul
Meta: What happened with this thread? I am pretty sure when I submitted my
first comment, it showed me [DEAD], and now it's undead again.

------
beachstartup
this obviously smells like a lawsuit. talk about cutting off your nose to
spite your face.

i can already see the massive proliferation of female/minority hiring that
will overtake the tech industry once this episode is over.

who wouldn't want a week of massively negative PR, a crippling DDOS attack,
and then a lovely lawsuit? sounds like every executive's dream scenario.

------
RyanMcGreal
The outpouring of misogynist hatred may or may not have been triggered by
internet trolls, but the tech community has demonstrated a decided imbalance
in its allocation of outrage:

<http://i.imgur.com/9Jg2brL.png>

~~~
summerdown2
I think it's not as simple as you make out. There's little to say about the
abuse. Once you've said it was terrible, you've pretty well said all you can
say.

As for the incident itself, however, it's clearly possible to have different
opinions, which is why you see a lot more conversation about it. It's actually
the more interesting topic of the two.

~~~
maxerickson
Most of the conversation hasn't been very interesting though. I'd rather see
discussion of what people think is appropriate behavior in a public setting
like a conference.

When is it O.K. to at least make someone else aware that they are making you
uncomfortable? Is it a good idea to create situations where bringing in a
third party is an acceptable response to a situation? What is a constructive
way to handle situations where someone feels aggrieved but few people agree
with them? And so on.

Instead, we get lots of picking at the details of this incident, or
uninteresting analysis of what motivates Adria Richards (most of us are flawed
enough that we are not fully aware of our own motivations, never mind those of
a stranger).

I suppose there is at least some contingent that would point at the legal
system and say "There's your guide to behavior, right there." I also suspect
that there would be a majority that disagreed with them.

~~~
summerdown2
I think this is an interesting comment, because I find the opposite. I've seen
a great deal of debate about what people think is appropriate behaviour at a
conference.

The debate I've seen includes, amongst other positions:

a) It's work, so needs a professional attitude

b) It's just a joke, so should be forgiven

c) It lowers the tone

d) It makes a hostile atmosphere for women

e) It was a private conversation

f) It was a public space

g) It's against the conference policy

h) The problem wasn't the policy, but the public outing

i) Twitter isn't public

j) Is it sexist to use sexual imagery?

k) Have the companies responded correctly?

... etc. Lots of debate from what I've seen

~~~
maxerickson
You're right, there has been quite a lot of discussion along those lines. I do
think statements like "It's just a joke" fall under picking at the details of
the incident, I'd like to see the debated hoisted up a bit from there.
Meaning, do the people who think such a joke isn't a big deal think there is
any verbalization that would be inappropriate in that setting? How far would
the people who claim the conversation was private extend that context? Stuff
like that, where the details are set aside and people look for where the
interesting lines are.

~~~
summerdown2
I think it's pretty clear that there are some things that would be
inappropriate. The interesting thing here is that you wouldn't ordinarily
expect two people to lose their jobs over a crap joke and a twitter photo.

it appears to be a perfect storm, where the deviations from what might be
acceptable are minor, but the results are huge. One thing I take away is that
if something isn't done* to deal with the tendency of the internet to make
something viral, everyone will be walking on eggshells ... whether making a
joke or posting something on twitter.

* I have no idea what that could be, though.

