
Ask HN: Is it worth $60k and four years? - cj
I'm a freshman at a university in Boston, and I'm stuck.<p>All I've ever wanted to be was an entrepreneur, to start a company, to have great ideas and execute on them. First I wanted to be the CEO of a big company. Then I discovered the world of startups, went to a couple TechCrunch conferences and fell in love with the startup culture. I started a couple pseudo-startups. More like projects, none too successful.<p>BUT -- I feel amazing when I'm working on a new web app or a startup idea. I'm longing for that experience again, but school is making it nearly impossible. I have 23 hours of class per week, a (non-paid) job in a research lab, and a ridiculous number of papers to write and studying to do.<p>It's a "3, choose 2" scenario: (1) Pursue my tech/startup passion, (2) do well in school, or (3) have a social life. Adderall would probably let me do 2.5 of these, but I'd rather avoid it.<p>Perhaps the problem is that I chose neuroscience as my major rather than comp sci or business related. I am legitimately interested in neuroscience and the related fields, but it's not the kind of tech I'm into. It probably could be, but not before years of schooling and long-term, low-impact research.<p>On top of all this, I don't see any entrepreneurial spirit at my school. I haven't met many people remotely interested in tech or startups (trying to fix that by starting a 'hackers &#38; entrepreneurs' organization). I just don't know if this is worth $15k of debt per year.<p>In an ideal world I would find an internship that brought me to SF this summer, and then never leave. I'd love to take a leave of absence to work at a startup. Being a product guy probably makes that a lot harder.<p>I'm trying to avoid being in school for four years and hating it. I'm trying to avoid graduating with crazy debt while being forced to take a job that sucks but pays well.<p>Any advice would be amazing. It's not often that I feel beat down like this. I'm in this period of time where I can make decisions to completely change my life. It's an opportunity that I don't want to screw up.<p>Thank you.
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blake8086
Hopefully one day there will be a better alternative to college, but right now
it's the easy way to just fall into a nice job without having to try very
hard.

Unless you want to try very, very hard, college is the path of least
resistance.

Also, because of that, you won't meet many ambitious people. Most peoples'
ambitions don't lie very far beyond "be comfortable".

You will also literally never be surrounded by as many 18-22 year old girls in
the entire rest of your life. That's opportunity you should think carefully
about passing up.

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atgm
Why not change majors to something relevant to your goals that could help you?
For example, go for a business major and an accounting minor, or something
that seems completely unrelated but could be helpful, like History/Philosophy.

I don't know about your university, but mine was a great place to meet people
and network; you never know who will be doing what or who will know what in
the future. It's not all about the classrooms, for better or for worse.

Additionally, your professors, if you establish good relationship with them,
can be great sources for both recommendations (for job applications) and also
for advice/contacts in the future.

(I may have a biased perspective because $60,000 isn't even the cost of two
years at my university, so it seems like a fairly low-cost investment.)

So basically, take your time, make connections, and prepare for what you know
you want to do. It will probably pay off in the long run, despite the stories
of people like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates.

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timmm
Hey man, I am in a similar boat and am balancing an 18hr/wk job, school full-
time at Umass (business major), and just launched a health related startup. My
overbearing passion is health - more specifically neuroscience so I thought
I'd chime in.

I think, intuitively, we conclude that the ideal situation is to be a full
time entrepreneur. However many people in the tech-field don't agree with that
notion (DHH) and have been very successful in spite of adhering to it. Being
strapped for time when working on my startup demands that I be efficient. I
don't have the time to waste on superficial/cosmetic features. If I can't get
to the meat of the matter quickly then I won't get anywhere. I have been able
to use that pressure so I can speed through my school assignments and get to
what I really love - which is working on my website.

It's not that I'm afraid to leave college and go full time into my startup but
instead that it's my belief that doing so would be too easy. It would be too
easy to quit school and spend all my time on my startup, I'd rather earn that
right of going full-time when the time comes. Not to mention being faced with
the alternative of spending the rest of my days in corporate America is a huge
motivation for me to get out of there.

All I can say is my life is hectic as hell. Full time uni, 18/hrs a wk
working, a startup, and maintaining a social life. I'll admit I don't have
time to shoot the shit, I can't play video games, and the only reading I do is
that which has a practical application to my business. But I can honestly say
that not only is it possible but I think that I am slowly discovering that it
is (counterintuitively) optimal.

Good luck,

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deffibaugh
It depends on your school and what you are learning. My advice is to take
classes that you want to learn and don't worry so much about finding a job
with your degree. College should broaden your mind and introduce you to new
ways of thinking. I made the mistake of majoring in an IT degree. Besides the
obvious problem of it not being Computer Science, it is incredibly outdated. I
wish that I would have done a liberal arts degree and worked on tech on the
side. I have learned so much about myself, life, and what I value from taking
classes like philosophy, literature, etc. I really wish I would have realized
college was about more than getting a job earlier so I could have switched
majors.

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_wo6a
As a junior at a university outside Boston who has dealt with the same
questions, here's my advice:

Personally (this may not be you), I would say drop the lab job unless you're
really enjoying it or it's very clearly worth the time. You've got a lot going
on for a freshman and you can always explore a lab job again later in your
undergraduate career.

I don't worry too much about GPA. You're at a well known school with a good
reputation. I don't know what your definition of "do well in school" is, but
notwithstanding the unfortunate fact that your school seems to have
significantly less grade inflation than similar schools (which is bad when
employers are looking at your school and GPA and don't know what the average
GPA is, and assume it's higher than it is), I don't believe that having a GPA
in, say, the 95th+ percentile is worth the potentially 4-5x more time spent
studying than for a GPA in the 50-75th percentile, depending on what classes
you take. If you can do something noteworthy as a result of the freed up time,
it will be more valuable to employers than a higher GPA. (Looking at your
resumé, you are more than on your way already).

There's nothing wrong with neuroscience as a major, but I do advise taking a
broad spectrum of classes to expand your horizons. I've learned a huge amount
just by exploring the available information about interesting subjects that
have only been introduced in my classes. I also extol the merit of taking lots
of compsci classes, particularly because they will give you lots of practice
programming, which will help you spend less time building your own projects in
the long run. They will also expose you to important theoretical computer
science ideas that, while not talked about every day in industry, can be
indispensable. Taking an algorithms class will make you stop writing grossly
inefficient code, for instance.

I'm doing nothing for the next month before I go abroad (besides finding and
building my next project) -- let me know if you want to grab lunch or
something.

You might want to attend
<http://developersdevelopersdevelopersdevelopers.org/>.

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kotrin
You could always do your entrepreneurial things you wish and go back to school
later. Mind you, it gets tougher each year to go back. But really, what's from
stopping you from doing what you want? There is no need to "fall in" to the
norms. Do what you want. It's your life.

I will say, though, that you miss many opportunities if you choose to pass up
on school. I would take the advice of others and pick a major you truly enjoy.
College is for you. It is not high school. Please, do what makes you happy,
not what makes your parents happy. You are now grown up. Welcome to the world
of responsibility and decision making. It's fun. Enjoy :)

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rbyrne
I, a Junior now at a University in NY, have often have felt the same way as
you. I've never liked school too much and probably won't really pursue
anything related to my major, but I don't regret my decision to stick with it
at all, due to one aspect: People.

Let's face it, college is fun. You'll probably have some amazing times and
make some incredible and long-lasting friends along the way. Don't skip out on
that because you know eventually you want to start/work for a startup. You
will probably always be able to start a company, but can never really go back
to school and enjoy it in the same way you can now.

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skrish
I think you'll find this article very relevant.
<http://blog.guykawasaki.com/2006/01/hindsights.html> All the best.

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damoncali
Don't be in such a rush or you'll miss the best parts of growing up. You've
got to stop and look around to find out what those things are.

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jemptymethod
Your in a city with a great startup culture. Staying in school in that city
and thereby staying exposed to that great startup culture for 3+ years could
very well be worth what debt you will accrue in the meantime, and if your
smart enough to do well at neuro-science, you will probably get out of that
debt in short order.

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brudgers
"Legitimate interest" just isn't the same as passion...you can already see the
years of unpaid lab work and anticipate the academic tedium (leading to a
series of $30k a year postdocs well into your thirties.) My advice: pick a
major you actually have passion for not one that you believe people expect you
to have.

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mapster
It depends on how you view education, as simply a means to a financial end, or
as a personal enrichment, a chance to learn and grow. Money isn't everything,
there are many wonderful things to study, and who knows, maybe you combine
your major and being an entrepreneur in a fulfilling way.

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BenSchaechter
As someone who felt the exact same thing as you going through school, I say
just enjoy school if you can. I loathed school -- but looking back, I wish I
had embraced it more. Not necessarily the academia -- but the atmosphere.
Plus, your GPA doesn't matter at all -- especially if you're going into the
startup world (at least it didn't for me). I got a job at a startup right out
of school and have since started a company with a few others. What is meant to
happen, happens, in my opinion.

I now look back and wished I had spent a bit more time forming relationships
with people and doing stupid things while I still could. It gets much harder
to meet people after college as well in my experience. Just hack in your spare
time and keep building projects. If one really takes off -- go for it.

