
Blackberry Keyone Review: Part Productivity, Part Nostalgia - rbanffy
https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/4/15439018/new-blackberry-keyone-review-2017-phone-keyboard
======
vanderZwan
> _It was in about the third hour of using the new BlackBerry KeyOne,
> available for preorder now for $549 unlocked, that I started to question my
> longtime preference for touchscreen keyboards._

I'm surprised it took that long. Bret Victor explained it best:

 _I call this technology Pictures Under Glass. Pictures Under Glass sacrifice
all the tactile richness of working with our hands, offering instead a hokey
visual facade. Is that so bad, to dump the tactile for the visual?_

 _Try this: close your eyes and tie your shoelaces. No problem at all, right?
Now, how well do you think you could tie your shoes if your arm was asleep? Or
even if your fingers were numb? When working with our hands, touch does the
driving, and vision helps out from the back seat._

 _Pictures Under Glass is an interaction paradigm of permanent numbness. It 's
a Novocaine drip to the wrist. It denies our hands what they do best. And yet,
it's the star player in every Vision Of The Future._

[http://worrydream.com/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDesi...](http://worrydream.com/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDesign/)

I really hope this is the start of a trend

~~~
aphextron
>Try this: close your eyes and tie your shoelaces. No problem at all, right?
Now, how well do you think you could tie your shoes if your arm was asleep? Or
even if your fingers were numb? When working with our hands, touch does the
driving, and vision helps out from the back seat.

I think this is an awful analogy. I can type just as fast on my touchscreen no
problem without looking. The problem with having physical keyboards on a phone
is space. You're taking up a solid 1/4th of the weight and bulk of a phone
with something that is entirely dedicated to the single purpose of entering
text. On top of that keyboards are a vector for dust and moisture to enter,
making the phone less durable. There's a reason iPhone is the single greatest
selling electronic device in history, and RIM is circling the drain. People
want slim, sexy, lightweight touch phones. Not bricks with keyboards.

~~~
Jaruzel
> People want slim, sexy, lightweight touch phones. Not bricks with keyboards.

I'm 'People' and I don't want that.

~~~
DanHulton
You're "person". Sure, I'm being pedantic, but when you take a look at the
overall market, the "people" being referenced, they do indeed want that.

~~~
throwaway7645
Unfortunately I think you're right and not sure why you're downvoted.

~~~
Jaruzel
Just upvoted him, he's allowed his opinion, even though it conflicts with
mine.

I may be a 'person' and not 'people', but imagine if we all had to drive the
same car, or live in the same type of houses, just because the majority
preferred it that way...

If there is enough of us who want something different that making or providing
that thing is viable, then we should be allowed to have it, and have no-one
criticise us for that choice. It is after all supposed to be a free world.

~~~
throwaway7645
Agreed. I use incredibly obscure programming languages, devices, hobby spoken
languages, games...in almost everything I do outside the norm, not because I'm
trying to be different, but that's what I like. The parent comment is just
saying the market (most people) have spoken and we're not it. Just like I
doubt you're an avid Java fan on HN (you might be, but I doubt it). The market
has spoken on that and Taylor Swift...etc.

------
zoom6628
Like the article says: its for a certain niche of people who just get stuff
done. I have owned iPhones(6+, SE), Blackberry (9700, Z3, now DTEK60), several
Android devices. None of them hold a candle to the 9700 for getting work done.
For play its hopeless, but for email, spreadsheets, reviewing docs, it was
brilliant because of one single hardware device - the optical mouse 'pad'. I
dont understand why other devices cant do something like this (other than
patent protection). Life is some much easier when one can navigate quickly
without smudging the work, obscuring the work. There is a reason there is a
whole bunch of folks out there that like the IBM/Lenovo trackpoint nub (I hate
it but others love it). These devices allow a certain style of working that
can be productive beyond belief.

But history shows us the spoils dont go to the 'best' as far as consumer
devices go. They go to the flashiest, most convenient, lowest resistance
(lowest common denominator), that gets enough of everything right to be easy
for masses.

iPhones get it right for everything just works and 3 year olds can figure it
out. Android is a whole lot better but appeals to the engineer in people - 3
year olds less so. Blackberry is for getting work done or those who
communicate in written form far more than anything else. I hope the KeyONE (i
like the name because its not boring like 6, 7 or childish like Galaxy, Moto)
is a success. Plan to get one near end of the year because i need to break the
habit of wishing for progress by buying a new phone phone every 6 months!

For the curious why did i give up on Apple and go back to Blackberry. because
iOS would not allow me to set size of system fonts. App vendors decided that
everything should be in unreadable 8pt so for a long sighted person that made
most apps unusable as my eyes got worse over last year (Im 50+) from
programming and aging.

End of rant.

~~~
pdimitar
I am really drooling over the OLED iPhone which will supposedly release around
the end of the year, but truth be told, I have some reservations for iOS and
not being able to change the font size is one of them. I am very tempted by
the much better battery life of the Plus iPhones because I am sick of having
to optimize my battery usage on my Androids, plus iPhones are objectively
quicker at single tasks... but some of the lack of customization is making me
hesitate. (Though I do admit, if Apple introduces a dark theme -- and I am 90%
sure they will, based on rumours/leaks -- that will seal the deal for me and
I'll absolutely get the OLED iPhone.)

As for getting work done on the go, I seriously think a MacBook (the original
one from 2015, with the 12" screen) is a much better deal. I can't understand
people who need to text 24/7, even if it's for work. And if you really do need
to text so much, can't a small laptop like the MacBook or a tablet with a good
BT keyboard do a better job? If you're a business person you're already
carrying some kind of briefcase or a laptop bag anyway. So if you're on a
train, in a car or a bus and if you're not the driver, why not just pull out a
laptop or a BT keyboard for a tablet and get your work done even faster?

------
blakesterz
"The KeyOne is a phone for a very specific person, one that longs for the days
when the BlackBerry Bold was the most important device in the office and the
majority of business communications happened over email."

Do communications happen over something else now for many/most businesses?
Yes, for SOME businesses the majority of business communications happen over
something else, but I'm under the impression that for MOST businesses email is
still holds the majority of communications still. Am I wrong on that?

~~~
thesuitonym
Professional bloggers often seem out of touch with the rest of the world. They
seem to think everybody starts their day out with an hour at Starbucks
drinking $5 cups of coffee and replying to tweets, then heads out to the gym
to take selfies for an hour before lunch.

~~~
na85
Where do you live that a coffee costs $5? Around here a grande at starbucks
costs $2, and even the fanciest of the fancy drinks costs less than $5.

Is your local starbucks charging you 10 bucks for a flat white or something?

~~~
spcelzrd
Just checked transactions on my credit card. Most of my Starbucks purchases
are five dollars and some odd cents. Seems like he nailed it. I'm in Atlanta.

~~~
pound
I guess it's not just for single coffee. Either couple of them or
sandwiches/croissants.

------
jlebrech
I long for the days where I could look at my phone, click a few times and put
the phone back down again. rather than fingerpeck and frustratingly try to hit
backspace to correct a word but instead of backspace you hit either enter or
the mic button.

~~~
pdimitar
Me too, but I've lost hope. Companies are only interested in selling the next
big hit and consumer needs take a back seat 99% of the time.

Plus, natural language processing (talking to your phone) is still in its
infancy. Google's voice dictation is alright but makes mistakes often enough
to be unusable for me.

------
Slackwise
I'd buy a phone with a keyboard in a heartbeat, but BlackBerry has these
awkwardly shaped keys that never feel right.

I miss the old HTC keyboards, like on my G1 and G2.

~~~
marak830
God's I miss the G1. That popout keyboard was amazing.

~~~
Slackwise
Same. Although the G2 was even nicer, in that the keys were bigger, but you
lost the dedicated number row.

I'd honestly be okay with a slab style phone, that's wider than normal, but
still fits in the hand, so I can have a solid keyboard.

Something similar to the Peek: [https://i2.wp.com/www.amitbhawani.com/blog/wp-
content/upload...](https://i2.wp.com/www.amitbhawani.com/blog/wp-
content/uploads/2010/03/Get-Peek-Email-India.jpg)

~~~
digi_owl
Reminds me that Samsung have been offering a keyboard cover of sorts for their
recent high end models.

[http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/mobile-
accessories/phones/g...](http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/mobile-
accessories/phones/galaxy-s8-plus-keyboard-cover--black-ej-cg955bbegww/)

Apparently it is not simply a passive device, but one the firmware is aware of
when placed above the screen, as the screen actually shrink to account for the
area covered by the keyboard.

Edit: That said, i can't help feel the world lost something when the leading
light in phone design moved from Europe to USA, and in the process turning
every phone into a flat piece of glass.

------
Jaruzel
I am a die-hard proper keyboard fan, and I've been waiting for the KeyONE
since it was first announced as the Mercury.

All my phones have had keyboards, the last two being the Droid4 and the
Blackberry Q5.

I've never been a touchscreen keyboard fan, my fingers are too fat and my
nails too long - at speed, the only thing I ever type on them is total
gibberish.

I don't care if the KeyONE is underspecced or if the 'media' people don't like
it. As long as it runs a mainstream operating system, and the keyboard is at
least on par with previous blackberry keyboards - I'll be happy.

However, at $499 the sim-free price _is_ a bit on the high side :(

~~~
dmix
> I am a die-hard proper keyboard fan, and I've been waiting for the KeyONE
> since it was first announced as the Mercury.

Mercury sounds like a far better name than KeyONE. KeyONE sounds tacky, not
like a corporate executive's phone.

Curious why they changed it. It should be well known as the keyboard device
without having to mention 'key' in the name.

~~~
Jaruzel
Yeah Mercury (and then Rome) were good names for it. KeyONE just... sucks. :(

------
Cuuugi
I'm certainly late to the party, but i think i have the last blackberry device
I'll ever own in my pocket.

The hardware itself is excellent, I own a priv, and it's literally been driven
over.

They have since outsourced their best feature, IMO (now using Chinese
manufacturing).

They claim to have the most secure devices on the market, but i haven't had an
Android update since February.

Perhaps most egregiously, they shared their BIS private key with the RCMP.

So, they don't care about security, privacy, and now build quality.

I'll buy something else.

~~~
maxsilver
If your talking about the Priv, then :

Updates: It still gets consistent security updates, as recently as last month.

Build Quality: They already outsourced this a while ago, while maintaining
high build quality. (The Priv was designed, but not assembled, by BlackBerry.
This KeyOne is also designed, but not manufactured, by BlackBerry). Chinese
manufacturing isn't inherently bad -- MacBooks and iPhones get made in China
too.

I understand and agree with your concern about the BIS private key, but in
terms of execution, BlackBerry really has done as good job with these recent
phones.

~~~
Cuuugi
Updates: I don't know what to tell you. I am running patch version February 5
2017 (While being fully updated).

The Priv was the last device to be assembled by Blackberry. The first device
to not be assembled by blackberry was the next phone (DTek50)

------
tyingq
I do miss blackberry keyboards. $549, though, doesn't seem very competitive.
Maybe that's just a list price, and actual pricing will be more in line with
phones that have similar specs (other than the keyboard) ?

~~~
dmix
That price sounds pretty normal considering the offering... phones are
expensive these days and this isn't a low end device, nor a low end target
market (corporate office workers).

~~~
tyingq
A Motorola G5 Plus has the same CPU, same storage, but more RAM, 1920x1080 vs
1620x1080 display, etc.

It's substantially lower in price, at $229.99

I'm no phone expert, but the premium for the keyboard plus a slightly larger
battery seems off to me.

~~~
tacoman
I won't disagree that the KeyOne seems expensive. What never seems to get
brought up in any conversation that compares the price of devices is the
included and future software updates.

I don't know what exactly BlackBerry has committed to in terms of security
updates, but if buy this phone and I get very timely security updates for the
next 2+ years, that has a lot of value to me.

------
gcb0
owner of a blackberry priv here.

I can't write without the keyboard anymore.

the phone is garbage. but just being able to do ctrl+a, ctrl+c, ctrl+v is
already enough to make up for all the other bs.

sadly, my next phone will probably be another dumb keyboardless one because
the key selection and lack of customization are just not worth having a huge
phablet for me.

if it had a tab key. and maybe esc. or heck if it were barelly usable when you
select another soft keyboard (e.g. hackers keyboard) then I'd use it even if
the form size was a full tablet! but it will completely quit working if you
select anything other than the bb soft keyboard. which as you can imagine, is
pure shit.

oh, and every update they make it worse. in typical blackberry lack of touch
with reality. the last one was that backspace suddenly becomes delete!!!
imagine you carefully place the cursor after the second word of a paragraph.
hold delete to erase them. and after they are gone, it start deleting the rest
of you painfully typed text! and most android apps dont have ctrl+z
capabilities.

~~~
yjftsjthsd-h
If you're on Android, install Hacker's Keyboard. All the keys, soft keyboard.

~~~
digi_owl
Anysoftkeyboard is perhaps also an option.

[https://anysoftkeyboard.github.io/](https://anysoftkeyboard.github.io/)

------
phonon
I'm looking forward to this indiegogo Moto Z add-on--hopefully it won't be too
thick. I kept my Droid 4 for as long as I could...this seems almost as good.

[https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/keyboard-mod-a-
physical-k...](https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/keyboard-mod-a-physical-
keyboard-for-the-moto-z#/)

------
goatherders
I love BlackBerry. I bought a Passport just for kicks and have never put a SIM
in it. I just like it. I'll probably buy one of these too and just sit it on
the desk.

~~~
Cuuugi
OS 10 Devices don't support TLS 1.2

Hope you don't want to be PCI compliant.

~~~
Cuuugi
Don't know why i am being downvoted, i guess ill have to elaborate.

The Blackberry Hub in OS 10 does not support TLS 1.2 for email, without a BES
policy.

You need a BES server to use TLS 1.2.

I know several Passport owners that basically use them for paper weights as
well, because BlackBerry doesnt care.

------
reacweb
I have a 6" phablet and I often travel with my "huge" bluetooth keyboard. With
connectbot, tmux and vim I have a decent environment for small programming
tasks. I can't code without my keyboard. IMHO the strength of Blackberry was
its keyboards. When BB has started producing keyboard-less phones, it has
killed itself.

~~~
ToniCipriani
They killed themselves when they dragged their feet when the iPhone came along
and developed an ecosystem, and went with BB10.

------
dddw
I currently use a bb passport, and look forward to using a KeyOne... when my
passport is totally obsolete or broken.

~~~
helb
Same here, just with Classic. Sadly it's becoming obsolete pretty quick
(Android 4.3 runtime…).

~~~
Jaruzel
It's an uphill struggle getting Google Play on BB10 devices, and then
Messenger and Facebook. I've done it a few times - every time I rebuild my Q5,
but it's starting to get really annoying.

~~~
helb
I use this for Google Play (and other related Google things) –
[http://forums.crackberry.com/blackberry-10-os-f269/cobalts-o...](http://forums.crackberry.com/blackberry-10-os-f269/cobalts-
official-google-apps-landing-page-965257/)

Never got Mesenger or FB app to work, though. I just use m.facebook.com in a
browser.

~~~
Jaruzel
The version of Messenger which works is:

    
    
      com.facebook.orca-25.0.0.17.14-8972666-minAPI14.apk
    

You'll find it on APK sites (or, I have a copy)

------
zekevermillion
I loved my first blackberry, I think it was the 6710. From there it has all
been downhill with possible exception of the Classic. BBRY freaked out when
Apple figured out what consumer users want and took over the market. As long
as BBRY tries to go head-to-head with Apple / Samsung, they are going to fail.

~~~
thesuitonym
Are they going head to head with Apple and Samsung? Like they definitely tried
that, but this device seems to be moving back to catering to the business
person who isn't playing games on their phone or watching videos.

------
fuball63
I've had a Blackberry Classic for 2 years now, and I get a lot of flack from
friends and family for it... The same people that have their OS lock up
constantly, can't hold a charge for a whole day, and get a new phone every
year due to planned/unplanned obsolescence.

~~~
pdimitar
People love to bash those who aren't in their "club"; you probably are aware
it's nothing personal but an instinctive social reaction. I still wouldn't
tolerate it however.

------
bebna
Does GPG work in the hub?

------
gorillapower99
Wheres the headphone jack?

~~~
matart
It looks to be on the top at the left side

