
TSA gave my MacBook Pro to another passenger at LAX, and now it's gone - jackgavigan
http://www.echeng.com/journal/2016/5/23/tsa-gave-my-macbook-pro-to-another-passenger-at-lax-and-now-its-gone
======
IkmoIkmo
I don't get why this was deemed an accident. If you have me a random laptop,
I'll ask you what the hell you're doing. I won't take it, walk away and then
board another flight. That isn't an accident, that's theft.

Unless of course they've got a spare Macbook that actually did belong to the
woman, which she left thinking she was taking her own Macbook, but there's
nothing indicating that this is the case.

So you've got two very clear issues. One is a passenger who stole $3k on broad
daylight, who is on footage and can easily be traced to a particular flight,
which can easily be traced to a passenger list, which can easily trace back to
her.

The other is that you've got a custodial relationship for a few minutes. You
give objects away to be inspected, at which point the TSA becomes a temporary
custodian. They ought to return it.

I can imagine that the TSA restricts their liability to e.g. $5k per item, and
that its liabilities are covered if and when it has a proper safe-keeping
procedure in place that's followed, such they're not held accountable for
'acts of god' (which is a legal concept). This would provide sufficient
incentives to create very simple procedures that'd prevent 99% of such issues,
like described earlier in this thread in India. You have a box with two tags,
you get one, the employee at the end gets one, you put stuff in box, you give
tag, you take stuff from box, that's it.

But the notion that they're taking your stuff without any liability,
responsibility, insurance, procedures or just in general, recourse, is
ridiculous.

~~~
cognivore
>> I don't get why this was deemed an accident. <<

Reading the story, there is this little voice saying in the back of my head,
"They don't want to treat it as a crime because they know who has it and
they're in cahoots."

~~~
MOARDONGZPLZ
I would really, really doubt this. My assumption is that they either:

1\. They have statistics that they have to keep up, and having a ding like "a
crime was committed on your watch" isn't a good thing, so they try to avoid
it, or 2\. Classifying it as a crime versus an accident comes with a load of
paperwork and hassle for everybody involved that no one wants to do.

I really don't think this was malicious in the manner you describe.

~~~
matt-attack
> I would really, really doubt this.

Just curious, do you say that with knowledge of the fact that is on record
happening multiple times? Or are you just unaware?

~~~
MOARDONGZPLZ
Yes, but I also know government workers. For every recorded instance of some
theft ring, there are undoubtedly thousands of unrecorded instances of a TSA
agents (or, really, any non-SES government worker) downplaying things or
subtle manipulating situations to get out of paperwork.

------
plinkplonk
How this works in India.

When you put your laptop in a bin, the security person puts one of two
identical tags (pieces of plastic with identical numbers on them) into the
bin, on top of your computer and gives you the other one.

When you finish your patdown/metal detector etc screening and want to take
your computer back, you give the security person at the other end of the line
your tag, she looks around for the bin with the identical tag, and hands you
the contents of the bin and takes your tag back.

Not foolproof/fraudproof, but it seems to work in practice.

~~~
massysett
Great idea--simple, inexpensive, highly effective when considered relative to
its small cost.

Therefore I never expect to see this in a US airport.

~~~
mrexroad
"inexpensive"

Just wait until TSA vendors out the development of it :)

~~~
whamlastxmas
Case in point, TSA paid $47,000 for an app that randomly chose for a passenger
to go left or right.

~~~
riprowan
$1.4M

[http://www.geek.com/apps/tsa-paid-1-4-million-for-
randomizer...](http://www.geek.com/apps/tsa-paid-1-4-million-for-randomizer-
app-that-chooses-left-or-right-1651337/)

~~~
rgsteele
$47,400

[http://mashable.com/2016/04/04/tsa-ibm-randomizer-
app/?utm_c...](http://mashable.com/2016/04/04/tsa-ibm-randomizer-
app/?utm_cid=hp-hh-pri#dxlIVGqIePqc)

------
vidoc
In a way, it's not the TSA's fault, it's ours for tolerating this insanity.
Sometimes I almost wish someone smuggles a bomb through the TSA security line,
and successfully storms a plane so we can finally have concrete evidence that
those processes only provide _annoyance_ , not _security_.

The most successful terrorist of all times was Richard Reid, the dude who
tried to embark in a plane with explosive material in his shoes. The dude
totally failed to storm anything and was busted, now he was successful because
since he did this, billions people have been removing their shoes in USian
airports.

PS: Richard, if you read HN from your cell, thanks for not smuggling C4 in
your butt!

~~~
captainmuon
I don't wish for anything like that to happen, but sometimes I wonder what if
a terrorist would just detonate a bomb _before_ the security lines, between
the waiting people... didn't something similar happen in Belgium?

It's great that we reduced the risk of a highjacking so much in the last
decades, with security checkpoints and hardened cockpit doors. But in sum, I
don't really feel safer while flying.

~~~
throwanem
> what if a terrorist would just detonate a bomb before the security lines

I gather the idea is that, while a bomb in the security cattle chute might
kill hundreds, it's still preferable to a hijacked aircraft which can be used
to kill thousands.

Of course the dichotomy is false for all manner of reasons. But that seems to
be the underlying concept.

~~~
ceejayoz
> it's still preferable to a hijacked aircraft which can be used to kill
> thousands

Not anymore. That ship sailed with 9/11\. Passengers aren't going to sit
quietly and wait for SWAT to negotiate/rescue at an airport these days.

~~~
soneil
What actually happened on 9/11 really doesn't help us draw forward
conclusions, because the people on these flights had less scope of the big
picture. Each operated in a vacuum, it'd be difficult for them to know they
were 4 planes.

After that we have a much more reliable track record. The "shoe bomber" was
subdued with the assistance of passengers. The "underwear bomber" was subdued
with the assistance of passengers.

imho, two things have have genuinely contributed to airbourne security since.
One is reinforced cockpit doors. The other is that our collective
understanding has changed - it used to be "keep quiet, sweat it out while they
negotiate somewhere, and go home safe - just don't draw attention to
yourself". Now the 'understanding' is that we fight back or we die.

(And no, the TSA don't really contribute to either of these)

~~~
eridius
ceejayoz isn't saying the 9/11 flights proved that passengers won't sit
quietly anymore. He's saying that, as a result of 9/11, passengers won't sit
quietly anymore, which seems to be exactly what you're saying.

~~~
soneil
You're right. I was trying to reply to a_c_s. Not sure how I managed to fluff
that up. But yes, total agreement that the ratio of flights that fought back
_on_ 9/11 is a whole lot less relevant than on flights _since_. Or rather, how
we handled the unprecedented vs what we learnt from it.

------
tmalsburg2
Two weeks ago I traveled in the US and after the scan they first handed me my
own computer and then a minute later someone else's MacBook Pro. I said that
the Mac isn't mine, and you know what, they didn't believe me. I had to tell
them several times that I don't own a Mac and I had to show them that I had
already received my own computer. I think they didn't want to look for the
owner and just wanted to get rid of the damn thing. I wouldn't be surprised if
some people were tempted to give in and say "ok, yes, I admit it, this
expensive-looking MacBook is mine". Very careless of the TSA to handle
people's belongings this way.

~~~
kbutler
_ouch_

I know airport personnel are very sensitive to unclaimed bags, etc., so they
may look with suspicion on a "that's not my bag" claim, though presumably the
TSA has just verified that this item is "safe".

~~~
tmalsburg2
Good point but if there is a suspicion that an unclaimed item may pose a
security risk, the solution cannot be to push random strangers to take the
item.

------
gargravarr
Having recently flown from the UK to Hong Kong and then on to Manila, I am
suddenly struck by how much of an honesty policy we are expected to follow.
The idea of tagging the laptop as in India is a step in the right direction,
but at no point in my journey was my laptop tagged. It was placed in a bin
with all my other valuable possessions (phone, wallet, camera) and it's only
through practise that I manage to get through the scanners at the same time as
my possessions. At any point after I gave my laptop over to security, someone
could have stepped up and claimed it as their own. Security provides exactly
zero defense for this, and it's only through vigilence that I've never lost
anything yet.

I do understand the need to scan the laptop separately to its bag, but this
honesty policy just failed hard. It's a stupid system. The only workaround is
to keep everything in sight until you're 100% ready to step through the
scanner, and then watch the other side of the belt for all your stuff.

The fact that the TSA _handed_ the laptop to someone other than its rightful
owner lands them straight in the blame for this. At the risk of increasing the
time required to clear security, a big fuss was made last year that all
electronics must have charged batteries so that it can be demonstrated they
work (not that this solves the key problem). If the TSA want to personally
pick up someone's laptop, they should ask the owner to power it on and enter
the password to prove it's theirs before they hand it back. Yes, this also
incurs a privacy issue (intentionally defeating your own security system), but
as repeatedly demonstrated, border controls have some quite far-reaching
powers and can force this anyway.

Edit: also, shame on the security people and the police for dismissing the
idea of a crime being committed. Intentional or not, this is theft. As others
have commented, it's possible the two women were working together to steal a
laptop, but even if it was an honest mistake, it should be investigated as if
it were intentional. And the reluctance of the people involved to give case
numbers, log it etc. just reeks of 'we lost your bag, thank you for flying
Delta Airlines'. I sincerely hope this guy gets at least a check for a new
laptop and an apology.

~~~
basseq
As a "tulip" (opt-out), the forced trust is even worse. You're not even
allowed to _ask_ for a pat-down before your things are on the conveyor. I've
tried. Usually the timing works out OK, but sometimes it doesn't.

My most infuriating TSA experience was at MIA. I told them I was opting out,
and they instructed me to put my things on the conveyor. I did so, then
proceeded to wait. And wait. And wait. After 10 minutes, during which I
_repeatedly_ asked for a "male assist", I had to cave and go through the back-
scatter machine because my possessions (laptop, wallet, phone) was sitting
unattended on the other side.

I'm very polite to TSA. That was an instance of blatant targeting, and you
better believe my the end of those 10 minutes I was _not_ polite. I did some
consulting for TSA, and I'm pretty sure I was loudly speaking about "violating
the agency's core strategic goal to facilitate legitimate trade and travel"
while flipping the double-bird in the backscatter machine.

True story. Surprised I wasn't pulled into a back room.

~~~
flatline
> Surprised I wasn't pulled into a back room.

For the most part, TSA aren't actual security or law enforcement personnel,
they are closer in training and function to low-wage service employees that
you would find in the hospitality and retail industries. I'd imagine they meet
with this type of hostility with a mix of amusement, annoyance, and general
"oh man I can't wait for my shift to be over". As long as the hostility isn't
directed at them personally - and sometimes probably if it is- it's just
another aspect of the job.

The problem, of course, comes in when under-trained, undereducated TSA
employees are expected to perform the actual functions of law enforcement. 99%
of their security function is pulling bottles of water, toothpaste, and
sunscreen from customers' bags, the other 1% is a crap shoot in terms of a
competent reaction.

------
mjlee
Interestingly (to me) the author used the phrase "on accident". I googled it
and found this: [http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/215/is-it-
correct...](http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/215/is-it-correct-to-
say-on-accident-instead-of-by-accident)

As a British English speaker, this stopped me in my tracks. I'm wondering if
it had the same effect on the American English readers of this article.

~~~
jasallen
I'm American and it drives me _crazy_ to hear this, but it is regretfully not
terribly uncommon.

~~~
JadeNB
Heh. Muphry's law
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry's_law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry's_law))
demands that you use 'regretfully' instead of 'regrettably'
([http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/275034](http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/275034))
when chastising someone's language.

------
james1071
My guess is that the person who took it was acting with an accomplice,
possible the one who caused the distraction.

They would make an exchange in a place where there are no cameras.

The person who took it would have a story ready in case she was challenged.

As for the TSA - they want to pretend that the incident never happened,
because it would make them them look bad.

~~~
notahacker
Seems a little unlikely that criminals are organising to buy plane tickets or
obtain security clearances to steal things on security camera in a place
crowded with security personnel when they could steal MacBooks just as easily
by, say, wandering into a shared workspace.

~~~
adekok
If they happen to be flying somewhere, and there's a laptop free for the
taking, why not?

~~~
notahacker
Vastly increased chance of being caught?

Especially since if they "happen to be flying somewhere", they're not exactly
desperately short of cash.

~~~
djrogers
You can fly 'somewhere' for $29 - airports aren't just for the rich...

------
elkabong
I'm surprised that everyone is focusing on the TSA for giving his computer
away (awful), but to me, the even more objectionable thing is that THE WOMAN
TOOK A RANDOM COMPUTER and just left with it. Any reasonable person would say
"that is not mine", or am I being too naive? And, since she didn't do that,
there was clearly malice involved, so the police were also clearly in the
wrong, saying that it was an accident and not a crime.

~~~
howlingfantods
To be fair, MacBook Pros pretty much all look the same on the outside. She
probabaly just thought it was hers, stuffed it in her bag, and went to catch
her flight.

~~~
elkabong
That is a fair point, however, in that case, there would be a computer left
over on the belt, that the author would've seen when he got out of the
scanner.

On a side note: do people not keep their laptops in sleeves (even when in
backpacks)?

~~~
manojlds
Are you not required to remove laptops from sleeves while sending through the
scanner?

~~~
orph4nus
No you don't. As a nomad I fly a lot, and I always leave my laptop in its
waterproof bag.

~~~
avian
As a settler that travels ocassionaly I am often required to open or even turn
on my laptop at the security check.

~~~
djrogers
Where is this? I'ma frequent flyer, and have never once been sled to open my
laptop nor have I ever seen anyone asked to do so (outside a short period
after 9/11)

~~~
avian
Europe, mostly flying to/from Slovenia.

~~~
toyg
To/from UK I've been asked "back then" when the craze started; in the last 4
years, never once. Which is correct: they are not scanning the laptop but
rather _the bag_ which the laptop would obstruct. Once it's out it doesn't
really matter how it's packaged.

------
barrkel
Amazingly ignorant police.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_by_finding](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_by_finding)

~~~
wyldfire
I suppose they should be a little more suspicious but it's not at all ignorant
to not know about "theft by finding." The article you linked to describes
legal precedents in the 19th and 18th centuries.

~~~
soneil
Perhaps not by name (I didn't), but I believe it's common knowledge that
"finders keepers" isn't law? You're meant to hand things in, or make a
reasonable attempt to find the owner, or something along those lines.

It seems common sense that "oh look, it's not nailed down, it must be mine
now" isn't kosher - even if we can't name the legal framework behind it.

------
vegardx
One time I was in a hurry and had forgotten that I had a very valuable
foldable knife in my backpack when leaving for a flight, and with no time to
spare I had to let them just take it.

At the destination curiosity took over and I had to ask a security guard if it
was possible to get it back when I returned, something he confirmed. They
handed valuables like that over to lost and found.

This naturally made my day a little better and I didn't think much about it
until a few days later when my return flight was. I went to the lost and
found, no dice. I asked some security personell on site, and they confirmed
the practice, all valuables, including knives, was sent to lost and found,
where they logged it and kept it for a month or so.

So the guy who was going to protect us all from terrorist attacks had just
stolen it. Reassuring!

~~~
rndstr
In Switzerland's airports they give you a receipt where you can collect it for
$10 when you get back. They once confiscated a bike tool of mine. Why they
only picked the adjustable wrench out of total 3 potential weapons is beyond
me, though.

~~~
Starwatcher2001
You could have then gone to the duty free shop and purchased two glass bottles
of vodka. Smashed together they would likely make much better weapons.

~~~
knodi123
If you smash two bottles together, do they both break? I would have expected
that you'd always end up with one broken bottle, one whole bottle, and
(optionally) a fair amount of your own blood.

~~~
pritambaral
When two cars collide head-on, does only one of them crumple?

I figure the same effect would apply to two similar glass bottles colliding.

~~~
knodi123
Except a car can crumple almost any amount from zero to tiny cube, while a
bottle can only be perfect or shattered. Plus, bottles have strong and weak
points, and it seems less likely that you'd bang two equally strong portions
of each bottle together; more likely you'd be hitting a strong corner with a
weak wall.

This is SO off topic, and SO unimportant.... :-)

------
ari_
1\. Standard rule for traveling: Your bags move along with you. In other
words, you only step up to the x-ray machine as your bags are about to pass
through. You never, ever, take your eyes off your stuff. It irritates the hell
out of the TSA people, but who cares? In this particular case I think he was
trying to do this, but forgot to take off his belt. I would have walked
through and got patted down next to my bags.

2\. Why we continue to put up with this nonsense is beyond me.

~~~
franciscop
I always try to do this, but I also opt-out of the scanning machines. Any way
to make them work together? When I opt out I am required to wait outside an
undetermined amount of time until they decide I am not going to change my mind
and just get me through the x-ray and pat me down. I always try to keep an eye
on my stuff, but it's impossible at times. No problem so far, but I worry
something _will_ happen.

~~~
ari_
When I opt out, I keep my stuff next to me, or take it off the machine and
wait for the TSA drone to show up. It doesn't go in until I'm going with the
drone who's going to assault me.

~~~
rgrove
I've tried this both ways: putting my bags on the belt before opting out, and
holding my bags, opting out, and only placing them on the belt when an agent
comes to escort me.

Both approaches have gotten me yelled at.

------
pthreads
I have noticed that in Indian airports passengers are given a numbered token
and a duplicate placed in the bin with the laptop before it passes through the
x-ray machine. After passing through the security scan the passenger has to
present the token to the agents who will then match it with the one in the bin
and only then hand it to him/her.

I can't understand why TSA won't follow such a simple scheme that greatly
improves the incidents like OP's.

~~~
giarc
I've seen videos of security screening lines hundreds of meters long at one of
Chicago's airports, this process would only make them longer.

~~~
pthreads
I am not sure about that. The long lines are due to more fundamental problems
with the TSA in general. Shaving a few extra seconds for each passenger with a
laptop is not going to solve the problem.

~~~
giarc
Ya I agree, I was just making a comment that implementing this token process
would make things even worse

------
reacweb
For me, there is a crime. Even if it is in good faith, TSA took the MacBook,
then lost it. It is the same as if they broke it by accident. If they can not
recover it quickly, they should reimburse it because what happened is their
full responsability.

------
mindcrime
Man, I am going to be paranoid as f%!# from now on, when going through
security. If my laptop disappeared, it would screw me over pretty good. I
mean, not in the sense that I'd lose anything that is literally irreplaceable,
(well, not irreplaceable AND particularly valuable) but it would be a huge
time and energy sink to recover from that.

Last time I lost a laptop, was when somebody stole my laptop bag out of my
truck (I forgot to lock it one night while I Was in Barnes & Noble having a
coffee). That was a double-whammy, because the USB drive with my backups was
in the same bag. :-(

The only saving grace then was that most of my _really_ important data is
actually in "the cloud" somewhere (eg, code at GitHub) and that I had an older
backup of most of my files on another computer that I bought and used
temporarily after I spilled coffee on my old laptop (it started working again
after it had a few days to dry out, so I switched back to it).

Anyway, after reading this, I think I'm going to go get another 1TB USB drive,
and start keeping a set of backups that I leave at home, instead of carrying
around in my laptop bag. That or start pushing stuff to S3 or something. Code
is already in GitHub, but there's a lot of other stuff I'd hate to lose.

~~~
nikanj
Crashplan. $99 per year.

~~~
gambiting
It's actually just $59/year. Seems totally worth it to me.

~~~
flexd
Except if you have a bit of data you'll spend a few years uploading it. Their
servers are _slow_. Only getting like 5-20Mbit/s, mostly slower here in
Europe.

~~~
danieldk
I use Arq - I can choose where I upload it and I can have multiple
destinations.

~~~
gambiting
Arq does not offer storage on the cheapest plan(I have no idea what you are
paying for then), and even the $120/year plan only includes 250GB of storage.
If I signed up with Crashplan I would upload literally all of my data to it -
so 4TB of personal backups then.

~~~
danieldk
Arq is actually a standalone (incremental encrypted) backup tool, though they
are now also offering their own storage. Arq can be used with Amazon S3,
Dropbox, OneDrive, sftp, Google Cloud Storage, etc.

E.g. I use Arq with my Office 365 subscription that costs me Euro 1.38 per
month (four year academic discount) for 1TB.

~~~
flexd
Arq only runs on Windows and OS X though. I would prefer to use something
open-source, that runs on Linux. I won't be renewing my Crashplan subscription
when it expires.

------
appleflaxen
I'm sure they will tell us that this never would have happened if only their
budget was tripled.

------
mindslight
It's odd how the TSA escapes primary blame in the OP and these comments. This
blending-into-the-environment is part of what makes these half-baked
authorituhs so insidious.

The author had an agreement that the TSA would borrow his laptop for a few
minutes and then return it in identical condition. The TSA failed to live up
to their duties. Regardless of _what_ happened to the laptop while in their
care, the straightforward way to make this right is for TSA to reimburse this
person for a new laptop. This is not a new concept - it's called civil
liability.

If the TSA would like, they can try to reform their operating procedures so
this happens less. But that doesn't change the fact that they're still
responsible for _this instance_. We don't let a thief keep his bounty by
promising to not steal in the future.

------
codecamper
TSA should keep a link between face & scanned ticket. They should have been
able to easily contact that gate & stop the "gift" receiver from boarding
their plane.

If there is no connection between face & scanned ticket, then this is a pretty
serious gap of the TSA security system.

Without it, how can they look at recorded video & make connections to certain
passengers?

~~~
joelrunyon
I'm sure they have one. But they're probably not using it to find lost
laptops.

------
gchadwick
Whilst the TSA agents should be taking more care to ensure valuables are
returned to the correct person, there are several agents working on a single
line. The person who saw him place the computer into the x-ray would be
different from the person handing items back so it's not all that surprising
that didn't know who it belonged to and was just assuming people were being
honest.

Any frequent flyer will know return of items from security lines effectively
operates on a honesty policy. Things are free for the taking after the x-ray
and if they take your bag aside they frequently call out 'who's bag is this?'
or similar. It's important you keep an eye on things.

In this case he totally forgot his computer and lost it. If the situation was
immediately after security the TSA refused to give it back to him as someone
else claimed it was theirs then it would clearly be the TSA's fault but in
this situation I feel he should share some of the blame.

~~~
yoo1I
If the government decides they need to take my stuff away from me to check it,
they better make sure that I get it back correctly. In this case the TSA
_handed_ the laptop to someone other than the owner.

If this happens, clearly the process has a defect, and needs to be corrected,
or, even better in this case, abandoned completely.

Don't blame the victim.

~~~
curiousgal
>Don't blame the victim.

Ugh.

>If the government decides they need to take my stuff away from me to check
it, they better make sure that I get it back correctly.

Absolutely! But if you keep expecting them to do that without being careful
and paying attention to your own stuff guess who foots the bill? This could've
been all mitigated by OP being slightly more careful. Why do I say this?
Because it's easier to ask someone to pay attention to their stuff than it is
to ask the government to change its practices (bureaucracy etc). It's not
victim blaming, it's about finding the most practical solution to prevent this
problem from happening again.

~~~
yoo1I
Obviously being careful with your belongings, as with your personal safety,
makes a lot of sense to avoid harm.

However, clearly, if someone steals your things, or attacks you, it is
irrelevant if you did or did not take care of your stuff: The blame lies with
the perpetrator of this action, not with the victim.

That they forgot their laptop at the x-ray machine, does not entitle anyone
else to just take it.

Therefore:

> I feel he should share some of the blame.

is wrong.

------
tushar-r
Temporary work around - get a TSA compliant laptop bag. Yes, it means doing
something different to accommodate them, but in the longer term it saves you
this pain.

And convince the TSA to do what we do at Indian airports:

plinkplonk 9 minutes ago

How this works in India. When you put your laptop in a bin, the security
person puts one of two identical tags (pieces of plastic with identical
numbers on them) into the bin, on top of your computer and gives you the other
one. When you finish your patdown/metal detector etc screening and want to
take your computer back, you give the security person at the other end of the
line your tag, she looks around for the bin with the identical tag, and hands
you the contents of the bin and takes your tag back. Not foolproof/fraudproof,
but it seems to work in practice. reply

~~~
ubernostrum
_get a TSA compliant laptop bag_

No good. TSOs essentially reserve the right to void or override any policy, at
any time, for any reason, with no warning in advance. Many will simply tell
you that no such policy exists or ever has existed. And there is no appeal of
the decisions made by the people at the checkpoint: either you do what they
tell you right there, even if it contradicts policy (even if it contradicts
federal law -- the TSA is being sued over that very point by a guy who claims
they routinely violate disability-accommodation laws), or you don't fly.

Which means there is no such thing as "a TSA compliant laptop bag", only "a
laptop bag that a TSO might, a majority of the time, if you're lucky and
they're in a good mood, let you send through the x-ray without removing your
laptop".

------
mark_l_watson
I have mixed feelings about TSA: the people who work for TSA at the
checkpoints have always been polite, which is good. The bad thing is that I
feel like security is really weak in the USA. In comparison, in India,
everyone was searched on the flights I took, and a personal search seems much
more effective.

Re: stolen MacBook Pro: ouch! I have several older Linux laptops, so when I
travel I grab a laptop that is old and expendable. Since I always encrypt my
disk and most of what I do is in bitbucket, or on a cloud service, losing a
laptop would just be an inconvenience. I find it more relaxing to not have
things of high value with me when I travel.

------
blowski
I don't really understand the importance of this story. Sure it's annoying and
a huge inconvenience for the OP and I'm genuinely sorry for him. But it's a
lost laptop.

How often does this happen? Can you think of a way of changing the process
that would result in a net benefit for everyone?

If this story was "TSA gave away my diamond necklace" or "Nightclub cloakroom
hands bag to wrong customer" we would recognise this story for what it is -
one of those things. Backup your files, kids, keep an eye on your possessions
at all times, get insurance, and don't get too attached to a piece of metal.

~~~
yoo1I
> Can you think of a way of changing the process that would result in a net
> benefit for everyone?

That one's easy: Getting rid of the TSA alltogether.

~~~
nmeofthestate
No screening at all? That'd certainly be interesting.

~~~
yoo1I
For starters it wouldn't lower overall security by all that much[0]

[0] [http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/investigation-
breaches-u...](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/investigation-breaches-us-
airports-allowed-weapons-through-n367851)

~~~
blowski
So if JFK Airport removed TSA and just let people walk on to the plane, would
you board one? I sure as hell wouldn't.

I don't know what I don't know about international security. I don't have
access to the NSA and CIA files about international terrorism. Sure, some of
it is overplayed for certain people's agendas, but it's very clearly an actual
risk that needs actual solutions. The TSA may not be the best one, but if it
was removed, it would need to be replaced by something that would probably end
up looking very similar.

~~~
gonzo
> So if JFK Airport removed TSA and just let people walk on to the plane,
> would you board one?

Yes.

~~~
blowski
Do you think people aren't trying to attack planes, or that the TSA has zero
effectiveness in stopping those people?

~~~
ascagnel_
The latter. The TSA screening process (a recent report had them pegged at 5%
effectiveness[0]) is next to worthless and itself creates a security
hazard/potential attack vector. The TSA screening process is also entirely
reactionary -- shoe removal only became a thing after an attacker tried to
hide explosives in their shoes.

If the TSA was pro-active and had a reasonable degree of effectiveness, then
I'd be more willing to put up with it. As it stands, the $85 pre-check fee is
more of a "pay us money and we won't actively put you at risk for no benefit"
fee.

[0] [http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/investigation-
breaches-u...](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/investigation-breaches-us-
airports-allowed-weapons-through-n367851)

~~~
blowski
How would you make it more effective?

~~~
scholia
You could remove the TSA and let airlines do their own security checks at the
gate. Airlines _really_ don't want their planes hi-jacked.

~~~
blowski
Surely that would just defer the problem? Plus, the airlines now have to buy
all their own equipment, train their own staff. At the moment, they are
'outsourcing' their airport security to the TSA.

I suppose they could each choose which security checks they are going to carry
out, but how would they choose? Based on recommendations from something that
looks like the TSA?

It's not clear to me that the airlines would want this responsibility, or
would do a better job at it than the TSA.

~~~
scholia
The airlines actually care about the safety of their planes, because failures
have a significant impact in the marketplace. TSA staff don't care to anything
like the same extent. If they screw up, they probably get more money and more
power, not less.

I suspect you'd get better results if you moved the responsibility to people
who care more, and away from people who care less.

Some US airports have opted out of TSA screening, including San Francisco. You
could let airlines opt out or work with airport authorities instead. The best
solution will probably depend to a large extent on airport layouts.

~~~
blowski
They would have a serious conflict of interest between getting people on the
plane ASAP and checking safety. I already see this when staff are lenient with
checking passports and boarding passes.

On top of this, most airlines have terrible customer service, so there's no
reason to believe they would provide a better service than the TSA.

The TSA clearly has many faults, and nor can it take all the credit for the
lack of terrorist attacks on US flights. However, it has to get some of the
credit. It's wishful thinking to imagine this is a simple problem with a
simple fix. If you're going to get rid of the TSA, you're going to have to
convince the majority of travellers that the extra convenience is not going to
come at the expense of safety.

~~~
scholia
It would be interesting to know how the TSA-free airports are doing. How many
passengers is San Francisco losing, or gaining? Given the widespread view of
the TSA's lack of competence (which has been easily demonstrated by tests), I
suspect it's not losing any.

 _> most airlines have terrible customer service_

It varies. I've been through lots of airline-run security checks outside the
USA and they've all been fine.

------
blisterpeanuts
The one odd assertion is that they "gave" his laptop to some random person.
I've never seen a TSA person even touch people's stuff except to do a manual
inspection and even then they ask permission.

Assuming this story is on the up-and-up and isn't some kind of prank, the
writer should call the police and report a theft. Secondly, call a lawyer and
pursue a quest to recover property cost and associated damages--business
losses, legal fees, time lost, etc. Also, he should report the loss to his
insurance company.

------
kirykl
Steal something from an airport store and I'd imagine they'll find you

------
pmarreck
Someone in the comments there just created this clever script that causes your
laptop to make a racket if it hasn't been returned to you by some number of
seconds:

[https://gist.github.com/anonymous/5bf92b9d14b8c529919c602750...](https://gist.github.com/anonymous/5bf92b9d14b8c529919c6027502fbd09)

------
em3rgent0rdr
I don't like how the author fusses about someone else who was arguable also
similarly being abused by the TSA:

"Behind me, I could hear a woman making a big scene because her “flight [was]
at 4:15,” and her gigantic bag was clearly never going to fit on the airplane.
She claimed multiple times that “the lady” told her she could bring it through
security."

~~~
james1071
There is a good chance that the person who took the laptop was acting with an
accomplice, and that the woman making the scene was involved.

~~~
Cyph0n
So you actually think there are gangs that take flights just to steal stuff
during baggage check?

~~~
bane
Why wouldn't there be? Flights can be cheap, and security requires you to show
up hours in advance, but there's no limit to the number of times you can cycle
through security lines looking for targets.

~~~
tobz
Hmmmmm?

Every time I've ever flown, my boarding pass is marked up by a TSA agent
before I go through the metal detector/body scanner/X-ray belt area. I think
it'd be incredibly suspicious if you left and then back through, multiple
times even more so.

~~~
KJP191
I've been through security multiple times before (my daughter left her book in
one of the groundside restaurants) and nobody cared. Anecdotal I know, but n=1
is better than n=0

------
joelrunyon
This sucks, but I can totally seeing it happen. Surprised it doesn't happen
more often.

I'm not one for snarky comments, but when it comes to the TSA there are so
many to make.

Maybe the TSA director will help you out with his $90k in bonuses he got (for
who knows what) - [http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-
way/2016/05/23/479242102/...](http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-
way/2016/05/23/479242102/tsas-head-of-security-removed-from-office-says-house-
panel)

Or, maybe it's part of their broader effort to boost their pre-check
enrollment ([http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-tsas-precheck-
conundrum-1412...](http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-tsas-precheck-
conundrum-1412789364)) - pay us $85 and we won't steal your stuff - promise!

~~~
robk
That guy got fired yesterday - [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tsa-
security_us_5743a892...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tsa-
security_us_5743a892e4b045cc9a71ccec)

~~~
joelrunyon
I know - that's what my link story was about.

------
slantedview
Let's be clear: The TSA was an active facilitator in the theft of this
person's private property and failed to provide a remedy for their actions. It
wasn't an accident, it wasn't innocent and it was not made right. That's the
bottom line.

------
timewarp256
Never knew guest mode would allow access to Safari only. Probably worth
enabling for incidents like these.

[http://apple.stackexchange.com/a/82707/145499](http://apple.stackexchange.com/a/82707/145499)

Done!

------
pjf
Well, maybe it's a new idea for a song like "United Breaks Guitars"? :)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo)

------
pfarnsworth
Things used to be a lot worse when people without tickets were allowed all the
way through to the boarding gates. This, of course, was pre-9-11. Laptops
would get stolen all the time by criminals just going through security,
sometimes in pairs and one would slow down the line while the person in front
would take a random laptop and gtfo.

In some senses, the security is better by disallowed non-passengers from going
through security checkpoints. I feel bad for the owner, and I hope he/she gets
back his/her laptop, but I doubt the TSA will just write a check
unfortunately. They simply don't care.

------
djhn
> Luckily, I am meticulous about encryption and about backing up, so I don’t
> think I lost any data nor gave anyone else access.

What is the OP's setup (and what are some alternatives), that he is so sure
this was the case?

~~~
lucaspiller
Here is what I do:

1) Enable disk encryption (System Preferences -> Security and Privacy ->
FileVault)

2) Regular backups with TimeMachine to a USB drive. It your machine is lost
you can use this to restore everything back to how it was pretty quickly. By
default TimeMachine backups aren't encrypted, so make sure you check the
"Encrypt backups" option when enabling it.

3) As well as using "Find my iPhone" (which requires the device to be
connected to a network), I have a message with my contact details on the Lock
and Login screens (System Preferences -> Security and Privacy -> General ->
Show a message when the screen is locked).

4) Even if the disk is encrypted it can still be wiped, reinstalled and sold
on to unsuspecting buyers. You can set a firmware password which will prevent
that: [https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204455](https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT204455)

(I had a Mac stolen a couple of years ago and as soon as I got a new device
and got home I was back up and running as if nothing had happened. A few
months later I even recovered the device - the police carried out a raid and
found a number of devices, and contacted Apple for the owners based upon the
serial numbers)

~~~
uptown
Something I've never tested -- how does TimeMachine handle things like a
locally installed Apache instance somewhere on the primary disk? If I lose my
laptop and do a restore to a new machine does it set things back as-if nothing
had changed?

~~~
Xylakant
You can have TimeMachine either recover the user data, programs, or the whole
system. It's not a full system image, but so far it's been working fine.
Migrated across 4 or 5 machines using TM.

------
l3m0ndr0p
Sounds like the distraction was on purpose so that the theft of the laptop
could occur. Perhaps TSA agent was in on the issue & the reason they're saying
it's not a crime.

------
smoyer
I have a "TSA Friendly" laptop bag (it even has a stitched on label). The
laptop pocket unzips to the bottom of the compartment and folds along the
bottom, so the laptop is still in its pocket, but there is nothing but fabric
and foam between it and the belt. The metal parts of the bag as well as
anything else metal I might be carrying are all folded to he other side and
don't shield (electromagnetically) the laptop.

------
vitd
They did this to me at LAX once about 12-13 years ago. Oddly enough, the man
they handed my computer to was Johnny Cochrane (the lawyer that got OJ out of
a murder conviction). They were so starstruck (telling him "Here's your
computer Mr. Cochrane!"). Thankfully, he said, "Oh, that's not mine," just as
I walked up and I was able to get it unlike the OP.

------
JoshGlazebrook
Just an fyi, even if you don't book the ticket yourself, you can still go on
the airline's website or call in and have your known traveler number added to
your reservation to receive your pre-check status. (laptop never leaves your
bag which probably would have prevented the author's issue in the first place
as he was used to using pre-check)

------
ianpurton
My take away from this... Put your name and number on your valuables just in
case someone picks them up by accident.

~~~
Xylakant
You can put any message you want on your macbooks login/lock screen. Mine
contains contact information just in case I loose it. Might actually pay off
to put a sticker on it as well.

~~~
kriro
Two sided sword. If the person that took the laptop is actually a thief he/she
conveniently knows you're currently not at home upon boot. Since this theft
requires at least some criminal energy (I guess there's an outside shot of
just being a grab and run) I wouldn't put it past the thief to immediately
loot your home or have an accomplice do so.

~~~
sokoloff
Use a work address, email address, and a cell phone number. Agreed that home
address is a bad idea, just like on luggage tags.

------
njharman
What's the problem? Everyone acted nice, gave all the info needed / incident
number. 2.5 days is way, way not enough time to wait for action / response.

If author is worked up cause incompetence exists and accidents happen (or
crimes/scams happen) then life is going to be disappointing to them.

------
austinhutch
I made a TurboTax like website to help make a claim against the TSA in this
situation: [http://TSAClaim.com](http://TSAClaim.com), it will render a
completed SF-95 form that you email to the TSA.

------
heisenbit
How can they single out his computer without immediately singling out him too?
There is simply no point in treating the device suspicious and letting the
owner potentially leave the place.

------
tssva
No mention of insurance. The laptop may be covered under homeowners or renters
insurance. These cover personal property even when they are outside your
residence.

------
andy9775
My biggest fear of flying. Do those TSA approved bags really "work"? Meaning
that you don't have to remove your laptop

------
jkot
It is possible not to remove your laptop from backpack on TSA. Some backpacks
open like a clamshell so xray has no obstructions.

~~~
madmulita
What would stop the officer to give the backpack to 'some random woman'?

------
yAnonymous
Next time, tell them there's a bomb in the laptop and the person who took it
is your accomplice. They'll find it.

------
hellbanner
If you truly hate security theatre in the USA, boycott travel. Tell your boss,
your family, your friends that you can't travel because you refused to be
treated poorly by a parasitic and incompetent organization.

But, if your paycheck is more important to you than restoring diginity, the
(governmental) terrorists have won :)

~~~
awqrre
I think the opposite. Terrorists and the Government have won if you prevent
yourself from doing/saying something because of what they do/did. Another
example would be if you stop talking about some things online because you
think that they scan everything you post and can link it to your personal
identity.

------
peteretep

        > It’s been 2.5 days
    

meh. Government moves slowly.

~~~
SlashmanX
Also it happened on a Friday evening and he posted this on a Monday afternoon,
so it's basically only been half a day.

------
mlvljr
Typo: not -> now

------
KD3hj21ioje13
My laptop went missing when I sent it for servicing for several days and no
one seemed to know where it was including FedEx and the company I sent it to.
Turns out, it was the intelligence community and specifically Tailored Access
Operations (TAO) hacking my laptop and preparing to ruin/sabotage my life. If
you happen to mysteriously get your laptop back, make sure you look for
potential evidence of tampering.

------
jvdh
Alternative title: Guy forgets laptop at security checkout and blames TSA for
his stupidity.

 _> I emerged from the scanner without any problems, collected my 2 bags and
incidentals, and proceeded into Terminal 5. After awhile, I looked into my
backpack and realized that I didn’t have my computer. My heart skipped a beat!
I turned around and rushed to the security area._

~~~
LukeB_UK
Further down the article:

> _After a few minutes, he found me coming through the security line, and sure
> enough, my computer was not with my bags when I retrieved my belongings.
> Moving further back in time, we watched as a TSA agent pulled my computer
> off of the belt as soon as it came out of the machine—there is an area where
> agents can remove things from the belt before passengers have access to
> belongings. He moved my computer to a holding area immediately behind the
> x-ray machine. And then, we watched as the computer was inspected, after
> which it was handed back… to a random woman. The woman took my computer and
> left the security area._

~~~
jvdh
He completely forgot his laptop, moved away from the security check and only
later figured out he was missing his laptop.

With hundreds of people moving through those checkpoints, I do not blame the
TSA agents for handing stuff out to completely random people.

~~~
elkabong
He forgot his laptop, because it wasn't on the belt when he came out of the
scanner. They gave it away before he had a chance to forget it. The couple of
minutes it took him to realise that he didn't actually all of his stuff off
the belt (even though, he did, since the laptop wasn't there any more)
wouldn't have made a difference since somebody else has taken it beforehand
anyway.

~~~
soneil
Especially if you're used to being able to leave your laptop in your bag - you
fall back to routine very easily. I want to fault him for walking off and
leaving it, but I can also imagine myself easily doing the same.

------
tacos
2 million screenings per day, stuff happens. PayPal does 13 million
transactions a day, I bet somebody somewhere got ripped off. Before ranting,
please consider that you may not be a snowflake and that even the finest
systems occasionally harm people.

Systems are imperfect and we should always try to add nines but there's a "how
can this happen to me?" bias to this stuff that is really, really
uninteresting. These posts are no different than BuzzFeed -- pushing buttons,
attaching yourself to a brand (in this case the TSA), desperate to get heard.

Like the Google couple who couldn't believe that their car dealership wanted a
fingerprint when they tried to buy a $80,000 BMW with cash, not everything has
to generate an emotion and attention-seeking essay. As in that case, once the
smoke clears these posts usually do little but make the author look foolish.

I don't know about you but "couldn't manage to travel with a laptop" isn't
something I want permanently attached to my name in Google results.

------
alfanick
Wow, I'm actually surprised that you would blame TSA or the woman instead of
yourself (I'm even more surprised that no other comment mention this). It is
you who did not care to ensure your laptop go back to you. There is some bias
against TSA, but you cannot blame them for everything (disclaimer: never been
to States, never had anything in common with TSA).

Sure, it is a pity that you lost a computer; it is probably some kind of TSA
fault for handling the laptop to the woman (probably a common thief), but you
should remember that you left your computer for a scan and you should receive
it back. No computer back? Ask TSA for your computer - 10-15 minutes, most
probably everything would turn out ok.

~~~
alfanick
Can someone argument why this is being downvoted? I've read the article twice,
just using logical and safe unbiased thinking here.

~~~
ubernostrum
The author of the article appears to have done everything he legally could do.
TSA does not generally give you a choice of customizing their screening
procedures to suit your desire to keep an eye on your belongings. So you
appear to just be bashing on the author for no reason -- there's simply not
much more he could have done.

