
Ask HN: How can I make an extra 30-50k a year? - jman1
Hi HN,<p>One of my goals this year is to increase my income by 30-50K. I am currently employed full time and am looking for guidance from the thoughtful and capable  HN community on ways to do that. I can code and design. I have been part of a small team running a startup and have worn many hats on the technology and client facing sides. My biggest strength is to be able bridge business and technology. I can talk technology to non technical folks and talk business to technical folks.<p>Thanks for your help !!
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patio11
If you can design, code, and talk business goals with non-technical people, it
is _highly_ unlikely that the W-2 rate paid by your current day job is in the
near ballpark of what you'd reasonably expect to achieve by going into
consulting at an appreciable fraction of full-time. Quitting your job and
hanging your shingle as a consultant-who-solves-business-problems-with-
technology will trade a lot of the certainty of your biweekly paychecks for
more occasional payments on invoices which would blow your mind.

If you add the constraint "I want to keep my day job", then I'd suggest
negotiating with them (and, er, not mentioning that you're unwilling to leave
them prior to having that conversation).

There are many people who have, in recent memory, made appreciable fractions
of your goal numbers by taking one service offering which they'd be really
good at as a technologist -- say, designing iPhone apps or what have you --
and wrapping that service into a teaching product. There are a variety of form
factors: book, video course, in-person training event, online webinar, yadda
yadda. This does not get less viable if you mix substantial business expertise
into the offering or your promotion of it.

If you want to execute on that, I'd start building up a mailing list of people
who have given you permission to talk to them about
$BROAD_OUTLINE_OF_YOUR_TOPIC post-haste. Virtually no plan for building
products gets worse if you have 100, 300, 500, etc people who are willing to
hear from you about it.

~~~
orangethirty
Let me put your point in plain words:

Consulting currently pays a lot of money. You can make 6 figures without much
hassles. Don't quit your job to start consulting without having a group of
prospect to sell to. Build your prospects list first, by doing content
marketing and networking in site like linkedin.

If you want to take the business route, you can make that amount of money by
automating tasks and selling the software. What should you automate?
Everything that has to do with lead capturing is worth its zeroes and ones in
gold. Start there.

Anything else?

Yes! Start blogging. About your skills. About your projects. Get people
reading about you. Even if you don't have an idea at the moment, people will
gravitate towards you and give you good ideas.

Whatever you do, realize that this _will take time_. At the very least, two
months of work. Worth it? You bet!

Good luck.

~~~
msrpotus
If you can, just meet with people. Sit down, talk about their problems, and
how you can help them. Far more direct than blogging and hoping someone reads
it.

~~~
orangethirty
I don't disagree with your point, but blogging has a purpose. Which is to
define him/her as a an expert in the field. When you go in to a business
meeting, your credibility plays a big part. Through blogging, you develop your
credibility. Same as publishing a book (even if its self-published). Being a
published author makes a huge difference. I've had people contact me from the
other side of the planet asking for a consultation. All through books and
blogs.

------
jontas
I used to do freelance web development on the side in addition to a full time
job, and I pulled in the income numbers you're aiming for, but I must admit it
was hell. There's little worse than coming home from a stressful 9 hour day at
the office and realizing you need to work another 5 hours for a bitchy
freelance client. Or telling your friends, no, once again, I can't come this
weekend because I have to work.

If you can design and code then you've got more skills than I had (I am code
only), so I'm sure with a little effort you could put together a decent side
business. Just be prepared for the life sucking that comes along with working
100+ hours/week. But it isn't all bad, working for yourself, sometimes,
provides its own satisfaction.

Eventually my freelance business grew so big I quit my full time job--that was
always my goal and it is the reason I was willing to suffer so much at the
beginning.

~~~
amalag
Probably the most common question. Where do you get clients?

I have two clients for some freelance and I do web application for them,
earning me $19k over last 2 years ( plus $8k finishing in another month). They
run their own businesses and they are very happy with them, but I am not sure
how to expand past them. I don't think I will ever do it full time, but if I
can choose the right gigs, could definitely be worth it.

~~~
jontas
I got all of my clients via word of mouth. It sounds weird on the surface, but
honestly, as a web developer, I didn't even have my own website. I can't think
of a single client who didn't approach me first.

I guess it is a bit of a chicken and egg problem, but there's always a way to
get those first couple clients. Reach out to your personal network, everyone
knows someone who needs a website. Price the first couple of jobs cheap, do
good work, and your name is bound to get passed around. Also after you build
your first dozen sites, many of them are bound to require maintenance--
eventually you end up with fairly consistant work even if you aren't closing
new deals all the time.

After a year or so I had enough work to support me full time, and after 2
years I had enough work to bring on a second person.

------
drakaal
You didn't state your current salary. If you are making $40k and want to make
an extra $30-50k the answer will be very different than if you make $250k and
want to make an extra $30k.

My suggestion. Hire a maid. That will save you 8 hours a week. She (yes I'm
sexist it will be a she) will make $15 an hour and work 4 hours saving you
8-12 hours. You can work at Radio Shack and earn $22 an hour. Working 12 hours
a week that will make you $13k. Use your discount to buy things you were going
to buy anyway save another $4k a year. That is 17K and you will have only
spent $3k to get that. Netting you $14k for the year. If you want $30k double
your hours to 20 hours a week.

~~~
joonix
This was an odd post. And nobody at any radioshack makes anywhere near $22 an
hour.

~~~
chc
The manager doesn't make anywhere near $22 an hour? Really? That's lousy even
by retail standards.

------
tsotha
How do you look in lingerie?

On a serious note, never stop looking for the next job. If it comes up, move.
It'll add more stress to your life, but not only will you learn more about
software, you'll learn more about how organizations work and what you can do
to maximize your perceived value to the company.

~~~
cadalac
Thanks, you just made me spill my drink.

------
kyllo
What is your full-time job? How long have you been there? Does your boss trust
you? Is there a way you can contribute more value to your current employer?
For example, is there an important but difficult project waiting for someone
to step up and take ownership? Or do you have an idea for a side project that
if you successfully implemented it, would improve your efficiency or even that
of your entire team?

Promotions and raises are more likely to come when you "step up to the plate"
and show how much value you can create. And then you can simply ask to be
rewarded accordingly. If you really did your boss a solid, and he's a good
manager, he will recognize it and might even give you a pay bump without you
even having to ask.

If your boss shoots down your ideas, or lets you implement them and then
doesn't recognize them or takes all the credit for them and rewards you with
nothing, then update your resume and move to another place where your value
may be appreciated.

------
aaron695
I would say not having a goal of "increase my income by 30-50K" might be a
start.

Moneys not everything, it probably shouldn't be a goal.

Instead by focusing on making yourself happy you'll be better off and probably
be earning more.

Just a theory.

~~~
joshmlewis
You know, I'm about to rant on an ideal that I hold. So what about money?
Money is everything if you think about it. The second you stop having money is
the second you are on the street without anything. So money is _something_.

You can go through and live in a decent house with a decent car and you'll be
happy if you make yourself happy but I just don't see how people can argue
that money doesn't make you happy or happier. I get that in and of itself if
you fuck yourself over and you don't keep your friends or family or kids and
you work so much that you will be unhappy even with money, but money can make
you happier even if its indirectly. You may be one to sit at home and do
nothing on the weekends and I get that, but having money allows you to go out
and experience things. It buys experiences that you normally couldn't have.

Having no money does limit what you can do in life. The case can be made that
you are happier not doing things but I think if you are the least bit
adventurous money can buy you pleasure, joy, experiences shared with loved
ones, and in the indirect result happiness. I believe family and friends are
more important, but saying money should't be a goal is just silly in my
opinion. Why not have both as the girl on the taco shell commercial would say?

With no money there is a slew of problems that come your way..late rent,
bills, struggling to always be on top, etc. With a lot of money I'm sure there
are issues as well..but I'm pretty positive you can't find anyone that has a
lot of money that has good relationships that would trade their large bank
account to gain more happiness and be more free. If it's not your personal
goal then that's your decision and your life.

I'm NOT saying that chasing money should be your only goal. Working crazy
hours in a field you don't like while ruining relationships is not healthy and
isn't good. But strategically gaining money by working hard and smart and
taking risk isn't such a bad thing. I'm a big believer in doing what you love
and being the best at it and getting money that way, I'm not a fan of getting
a degree in a field and working your life in that field just because of the
money.

Happiness starts with you and ends with you. Whatever you surround yourself
with should be things that make you happy. It's also not relative. Having more
money shouldn't just make you automatically happier, but it should cut out
some stress to let you be free to be happier and enable you to do more things
that make you happy.

/rant

~~~
yen223
Money might not buy happiness, but poverty sure buys a ton of unhappiness.

~~~
joshmlewis
One of my points exactly. :)

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zbruhnke
You could start by putting your email address in your profile ;)

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ja27
Mobile apps. Pick a few niches and research them and the apps. Slam out some
MVP apps and see what sells. Go all-in on a bigger app in the best niche, even
if you have to pay a developer and/or designer. Bonus: when you stop working
on it, the app(s) keep making money for quite some time.

------
tunesmith
Subcontracting could get you part of the way there. If we assume you keep your
full-time job and have a restricted number of extra hours to devote, you could
probably handle a mid-size project where you're
managing/overseeing/architecting while subcontracting to 1-2 other developers
that you trust. Depending on your margin, you could hit that range. I'd
recommend sticking to local developers in your circle that you can work well
with, as opposed to off-shoring, which has a higher margin but a higher
probability of backfiring. It'd work well for your skillset since a lot of
freelance developers don't tend to market themselves aggressively, and are
happy to be subcontracted to.

I did this for a few of my own freelance projects - it worked ok, although I
also found that as a solo freelancer, the clients that were interested in
hiring me tended to have budget restrictions that made them nervous to commit
to sums of money that necessitated subcontractors. So it was an occasional
thing for me.

------
poppysan
Have you thought about possibly using your communications skills for profit
via workshops? You could teach a business boot camp for techies that covers
some common issues and pitfalls that tech folk may encounter on the road to
developing a successful business.

------
DotSauce
I would suggest domain name and website flipping, particularly to someone with
your skill-set.

[http://www.quicksprout.com/2013/03/18/the-neil-patel-
guide-t...](http://www.quicksprout.com/2013/03/18/the-neil-patel-guide-to-
buying-and-selling-sites/) <http://www.dotsauce.com/2010/10/21/how-to-sell-
domain-names/>

Also, if you invest in generic term domains for the 2013-2014 GTLD landrush
for quality extensions like .blog, .cars, etc. you stand to make a quick
profit during the GTLD launches. Please do your research first, of course, I
wouldn't want you to lose money.

~~~
tga
Please don't listen to this guy and leave domains alone.

In my books, professional domain squatters are scum and the rules that
unfortunately allow this should be changed. You should not be allowed to squat
like that on a public resource that is scarce and getting scarcer, this is a
net loss to everyone else (except maybe the registrars, which are in on it).

------
rdouble
On other websites, many commenters seem to have a sister who is unemployed,
but makes $87/hr on the computer - up to $12345 per month, in just a few
hours. Perhaps you could look into one of these schemes.

------
capex
"I can talk technology to non technical folks and talk business to technical
folks." This sounds like you haven't chosen your base yet.

~~~
lhnz
No, he's describing consultancy.

------
nym
Buy bitcoin while everyone else is selling ;-)

~~~
vecinu
Please don't do this. This is the worst advice here.

~~~
illuminate
It's great advice, but mostly for Nym's speculative hobby.

------
heliodor
Teach courses. Udemy, Skillshare, etc. If you're in a big city, see if the co-
working spaces also offer classes, then you can go teach there.

You may not realize it, but relative to ten years ago, you know a lot more, so
put that knowledge in an ebook or course and sell it to people ten years
younger than you.

Build mobile or web apps.

------
switch33
I'm surprised no one mentioned investing. You can make decent money from
investing if you have the time to do the research.

And an understanding of how accounting/finance is better than being to do all
the math since many of the stock information websites help you out with any
kind of information you want to know.

Also using programming you can grab data from sites using Yahoo API or other
APIs or simply webscraping(if they allow it) and produce your own tests on
market information to prune information for resulting trades.

------
darkxanthos
1\. Job hop 2\. Contracting 3\. Consult 4\. Kickstarter for something ??

~~~
newman314
Profit

------
fab101
(1) ebook : business 101 for programmers, (2) a micro start-up, (3) ebook:
pickup something new (a hobby) and blog about it and work hard to make the
blog sucessful

~~~
inovator
and get stuck in endless cycle of learning and buying more ebooks

------
ericb
Job hop to a larger company and get a more senior title.

------
flipper
I think OP you are on the right track trying to leverage your skills in one
area by applying them to another.

I'm in the process of transitioning from IT to Law. This obviously takes
longer than a year and it's certainly not for everyone. However I expect to be
able to use my technical background (though not expertise per se) in legal
work.

------
consultutah
Night manager at McDonalds.

~~~
shawnphoffman
Depending on your geographic location, this could be a lot of fun and really
open your perspective. I've considered moonlighting as something similar to
this (minus all the American Beauty connotations).

------
bjc
write a HFT bitcoin bot

~~~
t0
The exchanges charge 0.5% per trade. This isn't feasible once you look at the
numbers.

~~~
aianus
Why wouldn't it work if the spread was high enough?

~~~
anonymoushn
Sure. It would also help if the exchange took less than 10 minutes to execute
trades.

~~~
KingMob
Exactly. I'm writing a (low-frequency) arbitrage program in Clojure for fun,
but the long confirmation time for BTC and the inability to move non-BTC
currencies between exchanges greatly limits this in practicality.

------
cianclarke
1) Think of a SaaS Product 2) Build SaaS Product 3) ??? 4) 30-50k/yr

------
dylanhassinger
<http://fourhourworkweek.com>

<http://lifestylebusinesspodcast.com>

<http://startupbook.net>

~~~
michaelbuddy
oh that's your answer to everything. ;)

------
klint
Find paid speaking gigs.

------
fleitz
Start by asking for a raise, a 15 minute conversation can usually net you a
decent chunk of change.

After you get your raise phone some recruiters, ask for more from the new
company.

If you get a raise and another offer you've probably got your 30k.

~~~
pash
This is the easiest and most foolproof option. But reverse fleitz's
chronology: first get another offer, then go talk to your boss.

Edit—To imsofuture's point below: Yes, come to your employer with another
offer that you would actually take, but with a real preference to stay
(otherwise, just go). Ask for a raise, and if the discussion doesn't go
anywhere, describe the decision you face between more money elsewhere and a
preference to stay if the money were not a differentiator.

This is not extortion, and a reasonable employer will not treat it as such. It
is the way you find out what you're worth and get paid commensurately.
Changing jobs is not the only way to get a raise, and it's certainly not the
best way—for you or for your employer.

~~~
imsofuture
Don't do this. Well, do this, but don't use your offer as a negotiating chip
-- use it as a backup plan if you don't get a raise.

You _will_ be the first up against the wall if you accept a counter offer to
stay.

~~~
joezydeco
Not up against a wall. You'll be out the door as soon as your replacement is
trained. You'll probably be the one doing the training, too. And then instead
of your income going up, it'll go down to zero.

~~~
rhizome
Have either of you witnessed this happening in real life? There's always a
comment to this effect in every "raise" question I've ever come across, but
never have I seen any proximate information.

~~~
waltgoldberg
It definitely does! Take it from someone who's been responsible for giving the
layoff list to HR as well as being a small business owner. Business leaders
look at developers as a commodity. Why do you think so many companies still
hold Java in such high esteem?

~~~
rhizome
I don't doubt that out-of-band raises can put someone over the cost-line such
that they'd get the axe at layoff time, but I think that's different than the
company gunning for them as soon as they give a raise in response to a cherry-
pick offer to the employee, to be actively hiring for this person's
replacement ASAP.

~~~
joezydeco
First hand, it happens. Not every CEO is a wonderful caring person, and some
can get very vindictive when it appears that an underling is threatening the
operation of their company by (in their view) holding the job hostage for more
cash.

~~~
chc
More charitably, by talking about offers from other companies, you are
indicating to them that your continued employment is in question. Businessmen
like predictability. So from that perspective, when they see you have one foot
out the door, it makes sense to alleviate the uncertainty by getting the other
foot out the door and bringing in somebody who seems more predictable.

