
Money can buy happiness, but not unconditionally - Doncametic
https://www.trackinghappiness.com/can-money-buy-happiness/
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amoitnga
I think it's a well-established fact that going from poor to middle class
makes a huge difference, from middle to top makes difference too, but not as
big.

5 years ago I was a carpenter in New York making some 30k a year, I was
miserable. I wanted a different job, but not only because of a better
paycheck, but also a kind of work I'd do, the way I'd spend my days.

Now I'm a web developer and having that background really puts things into
perspective. That perspective makes me pretty darn happy. My point is this:

It's an equation with multiple variables, where 'money' is only one of 'em.
For me it's

M + T + Q = H

M = Money

T = Amount of time you spend to get it

Q = quality of that time. Sure you can make big buck but do something you're
absolutely horrified by, something that makes you miserable... Or you make a
pretty modest paycheck, but enjoy every minute of it.

Of course, there is more to it, but it conveys the idea: Money affects how you
feel, but there is more to that.

~~~
Rainymood
I kinda think its funny how the emphasis on money is being made here. While
true, money intrinsically fails to have any real value besides what others
think it is worth (its a fiat currency).

Money represents value, and with value we can buy other stuff that makes us
happy. I would argue that money is not part of the equation here at all, but
rather the stuff that money can buy. If we take your equation of M+T+Q=H then
the M would be weighed differently in Nepal than in San Fransisco with its
higher CoL. I, personally, would be able to live very comfortably without any
money, given my physical needs are satisfied. What will _probably_ happen in
this moneyless society is that another value store would be created to
transfer value in and across time, something like money but with shells or
oddly shaped stones maybe.

The point I was trying to make was that money does not bring happiness, but
rather the stuff that money allows us to buy. Then I followed this argument
and came to the conclusion that we end up with money anyway.

Are there any advanced societies _without_ a value-store like money? I wonder.

~~~
dharma1
I also wonder if AGI (if we get that far) will use money

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esotericn
I don't think anyone contests the fact that money increases happiness _up to a
point_.

Once you have full financial security though, it becomes quite nonlinear.
Outside of bonkers areas, 1 million NW gets you retirement. 10 million NW gets
you that plus... toys.

It's a major reason why taxation should focus on the rich (as opposed to the
'well off' e.g. high incomes). They really will not notice it aside from
ideological opposition.

~~~
lhnz
Are you speaking from personal experience or is this just what you've heard
elsewhere?

I've still not reached the point where more money hasn't increased my
happiness, however I'm definitely making far more than an above-average wage
in London.

I think a great number of people could be happier with more money assuming
they have good ideas on how they can spend their money to improve their lives.

~~~
coldtea
> _I 've still not reached the point where more money hasn't increased my
> happiness_

Depends on the persons age and maturity level too. At some point shiny new
cars and other trinkets are not really what makes you happy...

Besides, if you're making a wage (whether way above average or not) you might
not still be quite that independent that more money makes no difference (or
draw your happiness from competing in the race)...

~~~
rifung
> Depends on the persons age and maturity level too. At some point shiny new
> cars and other trinkets are not really what makes you happy...

I don't know if I agree with that. Just because those things don't make you
happy doesn't mean there aren't other things you can do with money that make
you happy. Or maybe I just haven't matured enough yet?

At least I think I am at the point I don't care too much about having a fancy
car or nice house.

Still, the thing that I have found to increase my happiness the most is giving
it to someone else and seeing someone be really grateful. If I had more money
I could do the same thing but to more people probably.

And probably just knowing that I have enough money that I don't need to worry
would increase my happiness significantly. Even better would be that my
parents don't have to work.

~~~
coldtea
> _Still, the thing that I have found to increase my happiness the most is
> giving it to someone else and seeing someone be really grateful. If I had
> more money I could do the same thing but to more people probably._

Well, that's not money then, that's helping others. One can help other people
with no or little money too.

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enraged_camel
It absolutely can. Even without the categories the author tracked, a decrease
in overall financial anxiety leads to an increase in happiness, which perhaps
culminates with the point where one no longer needs to work in order to live.

~~~
lbotos
I think a lot of people realize that "decreasing financial anxiety" would help
with happiness, but I think for many, the first step is an honest look at
expenses and understanding where their money goes. That always seems like the
blocker.

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ur-whale
Is this really a study where there is exactly _one_ subject?

He can gather another million data point about a single subject (himself),
that's never going to prove the point.

At the very best, he'll prove money makes _him_ happy. And probably not even
that, given how many factors might affect his own life and moods.

~~~
audleman
I too find it strange that he couches this as a scientific study. A study
of....himself.

Aside from starting an anecdotal conversation about happiness and money, there
is no scientific merit here.

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intralizee
Money can buy happiness is true in the sense of fulfilling a requirement for
obtaining the need(s) to experience a happy outgoing life. A person may need
an operation to improve their own health and afterwards would be able to seek
happiness as the current moment is dread by the variables of requiring the
procedure. Further, the person can only obtain the course of action needed
with a sum of finances they lack. Another person may fit the same scenario but
have the finances and can place themselves on the path of happiness sooner
which may be better than later. I see this in the transgender community a lot.
People debate it all the time because of discomfort towards the idea that
finances are a factor in obtaining vs not in having a happy life.

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NicoJuicy
Money can't buy happiness, the lack of money is a source of "unhappiness",
totally different.

~~~
Zyst
The lack of money to do what? To spend?

Because that's what we call having money.

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djhworld
The bit I find strange about this tracking is the whole daily spend thing.

I track my finances too and I have many "zero-spend" days, but it doesn't
paint a true picture because some costs come out all in one go (e.g. rent,
bills etc)

Unless he's amortising those costs in his tracking?

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ashwinaj
Interesting analysis, for me the takeaway was that he is 24. Going
anecdotally, most people who are 24 think money can buy happiness; and it
makes sense since most of them have:

1\. Some form of debt

2\. Lived off their parents or lower wage work

3\. All of a sudden get paid thousands of $$ (assuming it's a high paid full
time job, which this person seems to have)

As we grow older, I think our perspectives change (mine certainly did). It's
the same argument that we no longer played with dolls/toys/action figures when
we are in our teens.

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mezod
Great write-up, I remember you shared this with me before when I posted about
my habit tracker :) [https://everyday.app](https://everyday.app)

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Simulacra
I think it truly depends on the person. Give me $10 million and I will be very
happy for the rest of my life as I indulge every hobby I’ve ever wanted, and
build concrete security for myself and my family. I think it truly depends on
the person. Give me $10 million and I will be very happy for the rest of my
life as I indulge every hubby I’ve ever wanted, and build concrete security
for myself and my family. The philosophical questions that money cannot buy
you friends in love, but that Mrs. the point of people who don’t necessarily
need that in their lives.

~~~
Regardsyjc
One of my biggest nightmares is that money might bring out the worst in people
whether myself, my family, or my friends so if I was lucky enough to get $10M,
it would ruin my life by destroying everything that I love.

Sort of like the data behind the misfortunes of lottery winners.

[http://amp.timeinc.net/time/4176128/powerball-jackpot-
lotter...](http://amp.timeinc.net/time/4176128/powerball-jackpot-lottery-
winners)

In my limited experience, money makes it harder to have good relationships.

“I just don’t like Jack Whittaker. I don’t like the hard heart I’ve got,” he
said. “I don’t like what I’ve become.”

