
No-tipping experiment at Costa Mesa restaurants axed - prostoalex
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/bl246m-719532-marin-prices.html
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Maarten88
In EU businesses have to advertise the whole price of everything they sell:
including things like tax and service.

I am always surprised that in the US, with all its consumer protection laws,
businesses get to advertise prices that are misleading. You have to pay the
minimum service fee, or you'll get into a loud argument. You have to pay tax
too of course, but it's added to the bill separately, which makes it
inpractical too: buy a coffee for USD4, and you have to pay an impractical
amount like 4.36. I always suspect this is a ploy by businesses to protest
these taxes.

~~~
bko
I feel forcing restaurant and vendors to quote the full price allows
politicians off the hook for high tax rates. I think it serves a purpose that
anyone that has parked in NYC knows there is 18%+ tax on their parking lot,
and everyone in PR knows of 11% tax tacked on to nearly every item.

~~~
Maarten88
If you feel that way, why not also let everyone know the profit margin as
well, and put that separately on the tab? So everyone can know how much profit
goes to the business owner?

These things are politically motivated, and do not serve the consumer, who
simply has to pay the full cost of doing business.

~~~
protomyth
Profit margin is a private personal manner of the business owners, and sales
tax is a matter of public records and government law.

~~~
rbjorklin
Which is why the tax is printed clearly on the receipt. Personally I do not
like the American way of not including the tax into the listed price because
it makes it harder to shop with a limited amount of cash on hand.

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ghayes
> At Marin, a large bacon and egg breakfast sandwich was $22, and refillable
> coffee was $7. On Friday it will go down to $18 and $5, respectively.

It was not exactly an inexpensive restaurant to begin with.

~~~
walrus01
> Marin

> $22 egg sandwich

I can hear the world's smallest violin playing for the wealthy snobs of Marin
County.

~~~
ssalazar
Perhaps, but this article is about a restaurant called Marin in Orange County.

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droithomme
At the "lower prices" of $18 for bacon and eggs and $5 for coffee, you'd think
they could pay the servers more than minimum wage, even with tipping.

~~~
toomanythings2
High end restaurants don't get their ingredients from the same place you do or
McDonald's does. The quality there is above and beyond.

~~~
lorenzhs
The cost of ingredients for coffee are a small fraction of the cost, whether
you charge $2 or $5 for it. There is a student-run café at my university, all
staff are unpaid volunteers, they serve really good coffee for 50 euro-cents
(~55¢ US). The beans are from a high-end local roasting house, and it's in a
real cup. Milk (whole/soy) is included. Coffee is cheap.

~~~
dagw
_Coffee is cheap_

Rent isn't. I bet those students pay a lot less in rent every month (and quite
possibly they don't pay anything at all) than what it costs a nice restaurant
to rent a centrally located place.

~~~
lorenzhs
Yeah, but the post I replied to was about the cost of ingredients. And
McDonald's has some really expensive locations as well.

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Lazare
> McKenzie surveyed 40 servers working for moderately priced sit-down
> restaurants. He asked what hourly wage they would need to voluntarily forgo
> their current minimum wage and all tips. The rate they wanted ranged from
> $18 to $50 an hour, according to the study

Ouch. Living somewhere where tipping is already not the norm, that
seems...wildly unrealistic? I wonder what the average was.

~~~
cafard
One would need to know what moderately-priced meant.

Three of us went to a Thai restaurant in the Washington suburbs last night.
Dinner was $75, and we tipped 20%. Suppose each server had six tables (which I
think was about right) and that the turnover is 1.5 hours per table, that's
four tips per hour. Our bill might have been on the high side (a beer each,
and one more entree than we needed); but it would probably be safe to set
$20/person as the low side of the bill, and a table average of 2.25 persons--I
saw no solo diners, and a number of tables of four persons. So the hourly
turnover during busy hours might be upwards of $180. The slow spells later
would be less, though maybe compensated some by more alcohol with the meals.
Anyway, with an average tip of 15%, that's $27/hour for the busy hours at
least.

So $18/hour seems fairly realistic. $50/hour suggests a turnover of something
more like $350/hour, so maybe a $90/table charge. I guess that Washington
counts this a moderately priced.

(It could also be that not all of cash tips come to the attention of the IRS;
but I don't know how much cash gets put down in that range of restaurant.)

~~~
toomanythings2
You're on the right track but it must also be remembered the time of year
affects this along with seniority of the waiter (how many hours they get) and
their own availability. Waiters can have great days and weeks followed by poor
ones but waiters at good restaurants can make decent money on tips. Too many
bad stories are from IHOP.

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gumby
This is a shame. Tipping is a pernicious practice in the US. But he seemed to
have good data.

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lox
Sometimes it's painful to realize how not economically rational people are.

~~~
jimhefferon
I know, right? Sometimes when I am sitting through an econ talk it is very
hard not to say, "But your assumption one is wrong."

~~~
DanBC
Coincidentally, I submitted this interview an hour ago.

"An interview with Professor Richard Thaler, godfather of behavioural
economics"

[http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/id-have-said-lets-not-
do-...](http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/id-have-said-lets-not-do-this-what-
osborne-never-asked-his-nudge-guru/)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11927635](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11927635)

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raverbashing
Unfortunately it's another case of "Culture eats strategy for breakfast"

Maybe it could have been handled differently.

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pmontra
They removed a 15% tip, increased pay from 10 to 15 and prices by 20%,
replacing a payment you should do with one that you must do. What could go
wrong?

------
lucio
"And most were actually working even harder because they were working as a
team for Arc, not themselves"

Give me a break!

~~~
toomanythings2
You don't understand. When you wait tables, you are in a little fiefdom of
your own that you are responsible for and no one else's. Helping others takes
time away from your space and, potentially, your own income. When your income
isn't based on helping yourself alone, then you can form a team to help each
other when they run into problems.

Note that I am not saying waiters never help each other out.

