
How a Microsoft Font Brought Down Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif (2017) - ing33k
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/how-a-microsoft-font-brought-down-pakistani-prime-minister-nawaz-sharif/article35828938/
======
sjm-lbm
The scandal wasn't near as big, but a similar issue arose during the 2004 US
Presidential election. Documents claiming to be from the early 1970s about
George W Bush's air national guard service were found to use things like
proportional-width fonts - and, indeed, the entire document seems to have just
been typed using the default settings for a contemporary version of Word.

Here's some details:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killian_documents_controversy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killian_documents_controversy)

~~~
perl4ever
The letters were short, so someone could easily have retyped them in Word. Did
anyone old enough to have used a typewriter seriously claim they were
photocopies of 70s era typewritten documents? Surely Dan Rather of all people
must have some experience with typewriters.

~~~
djrogers
Yes, on air Dan Rather did in fact claim they were taken directly from
Killian’s files and had been ‘authenticated’. The person who sent them to 60
Minutes also claimed they were originals, which he subsequently burned after
faxing.

CBS then spent the next couple of weeks in a ‘strident defense’ (their own
investigators’ words) of the documents and their use, before ceding they
screwed up and firing people over the incident.

[1]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killian_documents_controvers...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killian_documents_controversy)

~~~
rrauenza
Culturally, this to me is a turning point of the political bloggers -- the
knee in the curve of their credibility and a large drop in the trust of the
news media, particularly among conservatives.

The blogs leading the document debunking were Powerline and Little Green
Footballs.

This was also when the term Pajamas Media was coined (quote from wikipedia
PJ_Media page):

> The network's original name was derived from a dismissive comment made by
> former CBS news executive Jonathan Klein during the 2004 Killian documents
> affair: "You couldn't have a starker contrast between the multiple layers of
> checks and balances at 60 Minutes and a guy sitting in his living room in
> his pajamas."

I followed the whole thing closely at the time -- it was a bit surreal.

~~~
creaghpatr
That whole ordeal seems so quaint now, in retrospect. I wonder if this
happened in today's day and age, CBS would have anticipated that the twitter
gonzo journalism class would rapidly attempt to identify flaws in the doc and
vet it harder?

~~~
Shivetya
it was their, the traditional media, wake up call. it also forever broke the
belief that the media was impartial. remember that while Rather and Mapes
brought this shameful act of reporting we got to witness the New York Times go
full Onion with a "fake but accurate" declaration.

Could it happen now? Not as blatant but I simply believe they have changed to
simply relying more on innuendo and unidentifiable sources.

------
ankit219
Pakistan acted on the Panama papers is a big news since a lot of countries
with allegedly a hard stance against corruption did not.

~~~
nobrains
It was mostly due to the efforts of one man, Imran Khan.

~~~
arif_sohaib
Yep. Hopefully he wins the current elections. Me and my whole family waited
hours in lines to vote for him last elections.

~~~
fish_bizkit
Hypothetically speaking, what will your reaction be if he loses this time too?
Will you (personally) accept his defeat and wait for the next election or will
you take to the streets and protest against the election results like 2014
(given Khan calls his supports out)?

I am only trying to get the feel of Pakistani politics here, no personal bias.

~~~
xbmcuser
Unlikley as all the other major parties have got their hands tied currently I
am more worried about what happens when he goes against the army will he able
to or will an army dictator rise again.

------
userbinator
It's like watching a movie set in the 1950s and noticing someone in the
background walking past with his head looking down at a smartphone.

~~~
emeth
Like this Charlie Chaplin 1928 movie, with a time traveler talking into a cell
phone walking by?

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU_k4yGPeOI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU_k4yGPeOI)

~~~
chungy
Good luck getting cell reception in 1928 :)

------
philliphaydon
If it was released in beta of longhorn in 2004 couldn’t they have still
legitimately created the doc???

~~~
philliphaydon
[https://www.dawn.com/news/1344685](https://www.dawn.com/news/1344685)

> In a separate email, de Groot, the font designer himself, said that while in
> theory it would have been possible to create a document using Calibri in
> 2006, the font would have to be obtained from a beta operating system, "from
> the hands of computer nerds".

> "Why would anyone use a completely unknown font for an official document in
> 2006?" he went on to question.

> "If the person using Calibri was such a font lover that he or she had to use
> the new Calibri, then he or she should be able to prove that other documents
> were printed with Calibri in 2006, and these prints should be in the hands
> of other people as well," he wrote.

> De Groot said in his opinion the document signed by Maryam Nawaz was
> "produced much later, when Calibri was the default font in MS Word".

So apparently yes it would be possible but highly unlikely.

~~~
deltateam
Having dealt with so many Pakistani web/graphic designers and photo retouchers
back then, I don't think it is highly unlikely at all.

There was such a competitive race to the bottom with graphic design work that
I could have seen the Prime Minister's son, daughter or anyone in their
network having had that font on their computer.

At the time of this trial, I always had to laugh about the argument and
wondered if I could present this reality as a third party to the trial, but
then I saw that like every Pakistani Prime Minister is brought down this way
and realized it has no bearing on my life whatsoever.

~~~
gpvos
Then, as Carter wrote, it must be easy to find documents by one of them also
using Calibri.

~~~
deltateam
_shrugs_

Honestly I have never seen any drama from Pakistan that matched my
expectations of due process.

The rebuttals and speculation are mildly entertaining, and the finality of
their court garners no respect from me either way.

If the whole case hinged on the font actually existing in the wild in some
capacity but the probability that it was on someone's computer at that point
in time, yet some obvious to me possibilities were never even brought up, then
all I can say is "lol, Pakistan."

------
ChicagoBoy11
Curious how/who noticed the font detail and knew enough that it could help
date the document.

However, couldn't the machine identification code from the printer reveal
exactly when the document was printed?

~~~
nobrains
It was identified by the JIT (join investigation team) established by the
supreme court to look at the case. And Robert W. Radley of London-based The
Radley Forensic Document Laboratory was the person who helped in identifying
it.

Source: [https://www.dawn.com/news/1344654](https://www.dawn.com/news/1344654)

------
zenovision
Almost every printed document also have hidden yellow dots that allows you to
get certain information about that document (print date, print model etc...)

~~~
Froyoh
Even monochrome printers?

------
m23khan
This may not amount to much for Pakistani people. The forces and judiciary are
so pathetically weak that they couldn't force the PM and his Daughter and his
sons to remain inside of Pakistan - so what if the PM's wife is sick in London
(which we don't even know if it's true) - let her die alone because she and
her life is worthless for Pakistani people. For months the PM's daughter
barked daily in front of masses against the judiciary yet received full
security protocol and no judge's order was put forward to muzzle her rabid
speeches.

And then there is the magical softening of stance overnight and miracle
reduction of punishments which Pakistani judges are famous for - absolute
joke. I won't be surprised at all if at the end of day, all he gets is a
'warning' and 'stern lecture'.

Finally, PM in question and his family aren't the only corrupt folks in
Pakistan - the other 'dynasty' is the PPP-clan of Bhuttos/Zardaris -- now
watch them flee scotch-free from Pakistan.

And the icing on cake - UK/UAE/Swiss are among nations which actively harbor
corrupt and dangerous Pakistani individuals, have granted them/their families
citizenship, and allow them to bring their illegal wealth - these Govts will
not send the wealth or the individuals back to Pakistan. Perhaps Pakistani ISI
should learn from Israel's Mossad.

~~~
gadders
Slightly offtopic, but this [1] is a great series of podcasts about the
assassination of Benazir Bhutto. No idea if she would have made a good leader,
but she was certainly brave. Even if you're not interested in Pakistani
politics, it's still fascinating.

[1]
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05r6cgx/episodes/downloads](https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05r6cgx/episodes/downloads)

~~~
arif_sohaib
What do you mean no idea. She was PM several times in the 1990s and not a good
one. She and Nawaz took turns robbing Pakistan until Musharraff came.

------
huntertwo
That’s really funny. Don’t think I’ve ever seen Calibri on any legal document
now that I think of it.

~~~
thewizardofaus
They should have used Comic sans. Released 1994.

~~~
xbmcuser
There a saying in Urdu (Pakistani Language) Nakal ke liye Bhi Akal Chaye i.e
Even to cheat you need brains.

------
baybal2
More coverage of today's court proceedings:

[https://www.dawn.com/news/1418326/guilty-nawaz-10-years-
in-j...](https://www.dawn.com/news/1418326/guilty-nawaz-10-years-in-jail-
maryam-7)

[https://www.geo.tv/latest/201862-avenfield-reference-
verdict...](https://www.geo.tv/latest/201862-avenfield-reference-verdict-
against-nawaz-sharif-family-at-3pm-now)

------
merricksb
Discussion from about a year ago:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14751358](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14751358)

------
baybal2
BTW, Avenfield reference case verdict has just been pronounced. Literally few
minutes ago: Nawaz gets 10 years!

~~~
degenerate
Good. Corruption needs jail time, not just fines.

~~~
hutzlibu
Only if the same standard is held to everyone. I don't know any details about
this case nor pakistans situation in general, but I know that in most corrupt
states, corruption trials are usually used in a power struggle, where one
corrupt side brings down the other side, and just has their own corpses better
buried and/or is connected better to the investigators/secret intelligence.

~~~
icebraining
Eh, better the powerful bringing each other down than united against the
people.

~~~
hutzlibu
Hm, but it is not like the evil powerful ones would go away this way. Besides,
I don't mind "the powerful" per se. What matters to me is what people do with
their power. Whetter it be much power or little. Also with little power you
can do bad things.

So I like a fair trial for everyone, no matter the power/money.

------
fish_bizkit
Here's another one. This guy spent 2.6 million Rupees on tea and biscuits.
With the bill of bakery items for one TV channel's interview team being 175000
Rupees.

[https://www.thenews.com.pk/archive/print/641087-kp-cm-
spends...](https://www.thenews.com.pk/archive/print/641087-kp-cm-spends-
rs2.6m-on-entertainment,-bakery-items)

[https://www.urdupoint.com/en/pakistan/bill-of-tea-
provided-b...](https://www.urdupoint.com/en/pakistan/bill-of-tea-provided-by-
pervez-khattak-to-jir-389727.html)

------
baybal2
Looks like that Zardari is next: [https://www.dawn.com/news/1418348/eminent-
banker-and-zardari...](https://www.dawn.com/news/1418348/eminent-banker-and-
zardari-aide-hussain-lawai-taken-into-custody-by-fia-reports)

Hussain Lawai - Zardari's personal banker. There can't be anybody with more
dirt on "the Beast" than him.

------
baybal2
Pretty much live coverage of that for the last hour:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQu5n7Nh42Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQu5n7Nh42Y)

Given the channel is pro PTI, half of it is about Imran's people rawing hard
on the streets.

------
maxpert
I’ve been following this case from the beginning. I think in a country like
Pakistan it’s a huge accomplishment! Pakistan is known for its corrupt leaders
because they control the system inside out this is probably the first time law
is being upheld and people are backing it.

~~~
nashashmi
It's not over yet. The person is still in London.

------
J-Kuhn
tl;dr: Forged document claims to be from 2006, uses a font (Calibri) that was
introduced 2007. Newsletters headline: "Sans Sharif".

~~~
master_ant
With a name like that how can you not make the pun :)

------
unaaaa
Would using the hidden printer tracking dots/stenography also work to disprove
the documents age?

------
Salamat
Microsoft bought a pirate Arabic font because they would not pay the orginal
owner- Boutros Fonts, his asking price, and got away with it.

------
amriksohata
Pakistan is not a democracy, it is run by the military regardless of who is in
power, the ISI it's it's real head of state, which have a pro-islamist agenda
but with a slightly modern outlook for economic growth. Regardless if he did
any wrongdoing, there have been far worse acts by politicians in Pakistan and
they have got away with it.

~~~
amingilani
That may have been true a few decades ago, but it's certainly becoming more
democratic.. still not the best, though. Especially with the military curb
circulations of a private national newspaper.

~~~
baybal2
Attack on Dawn and Geo were first of a kind after 5 years lull.

In last 5 years, Pakistan saw, well, nothing less than an explosion in
privately owned press and TV channels.

~~~
arif_sohaib
Not last 5 years. That was mostly under an actual dictator Perviz Musharraff.
That period was more democratic than after him which removed all power for
local governments and probably more censorship/bans by PEMRA, our media
regulatory agency.

I think people are too quick to judge other countries through their lens.

This is as true for some of us Pakistanis judging to the west through our
cultural lens.

~~~
baybal2
>This is as true for some of us Pakistanis judging to the west through our
cultural lens.

Am I? Well, media curbs were then and now, but have you noticed a very
apparent change in tone?

Yes, there were already quite a few private medias by late Musharaf, but back
then news section was nearly the same all across them. Aside from the usual
aha, aha, nod, nod, in news coverage of the junta, they just varied in kinds
of entertainment content.

But once Mush was gone, it was only then for the first time in decades that
news became somewhat resembling what they are supposed to be.

------
chris_wot
Haha! Sans Sharif indeed!

