
Nest Cam status lights can no longer be turned off for privacy - marklyon
https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/08/15/nest-cam-status-lights-can-no-longer-be-turned-off-in-the-name-of-privacy-and-customers-are-pissed/
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Sgt_Apone
Previous discussion:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20700810](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20700810)

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mymacbook
Having a status light ON for an outside camera seems smart for both sides –
pro-privacy & communicating the property is under surveillance. What sounds
frustrating is that when your network / wifi connection goes down the status
light flashes amber – there was never a way to turn this feature off even if
you had the status light off (previously). If you're a potential thief and you
see am amber flashing light on a Drop/Nest cam, you know you're not being
recorded. That's the bummer with cloud-only camera recording, there is no
redundancy. I wish there was an option to "hide" error states in the status
light and just keep it on as if nothing is wrong.

Of course the discussion so far has been limited to whether you should have a
choice when your camera is inside the home and used for things like a
nursery/baby cam? Should you have a choice "hiding" a camera to record anyone
who breaks in?

I don't have good blanket answers, however I think it's illegal in Germany to
record someone without consent, even if it's an intruder in your own home.
Right now it seems the decision has been made for Google camera owners.

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UnFleshedOne
I don't know how nest camera is built like, but can't you cover the light with
a bit of tape and be done with it?

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marklyon
Yes, but you risk also blocking the IR illuminators that let it work at night.

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tomatotomato37
>As it turns out, many people use these security cams to secure their homes
and don't want thieves to know that they're being watched

I don't get this argument. The whole reason the fake security camera market
exists is to deter crime by giving the illusion of being actively watched; if
you want to play spy and switch it off to prove a person's true nature it is
your business, but at the end of the day the crime has still been committed
and your stuff is still gone

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ssully
I think it's a mix of people who like using their camera's to spy on
family/guests/neighbors, and people who just genuinely do not know the camera
works better as a deterrent then as evidence.

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nickthegreek
If this was an exterior camera, I would agree. But if someone is already in my
home, I feel like them seeing the camera light isn't going to make them turn
around and leave but it could lead to them destroying my camera and then I
would lose evidence of their next moves.

Maybe the camera should contain a switch allowing me to choose which mode the
LED should work in (on when being viewed, always off, or always on).

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asdf21
We have roommates who leave messes in the kitchen and blame others, have
overnights guests more frequently than its allowed, etc.

Don't even get me started on the uses for kids.

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rubbingalcohol
How about don't put Google surveillance cameras in your home? You don't "own"
anything Google or Microsoft sells you. You are licensing their tech and you
are their bitch when they decide to pull the rug out from under you. People
tolerate such abusive, anti-consumer behavior and invasion of privacy all in
the name of convenience. In any relationship people have an ethical
responsibility to not enable abusive behavior (to the extent possible) -- this
goes for people just as well as amoral corporations. So just don't fucking use
their shit.

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wlesieutre
I talked to someone yesterday who didn't trust Amazon enough to use an Alexa
device after the recent audio recording publicity.

Imagine their surprise when I let them know who owns their Ring doorbells and
security cameras.

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fpgaminer
To be fair, Amazon only recently bought Ring (early 2018), and I recall the
products being quite popular even before Amazon's acquisition. So really it
may be the case of someone actively choosing not to buy a FAANG product, only
to be sucked in later by Amazon's blackhole.

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wlesieutre
That's exactly what happened. Same deal for anyone with Eero mesh routers
(Amazon) and Nest/DropCam (Google). It's impossible to avoid them in
technology because they just buy everything.

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pwinnski
The privacy of whom?

Google seems to favoring the privacy of those who might be recorded by the
camera. The owners of the cameras object. I'm not entirely sure why: do they
expect privacy while recording others?

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asdf21
You really aren't using your imagination if you can't figure out potential
uses for a hidden nanny cam.

What if I want to see:

* If my cleaning person is stealing?

* If my cleaning person is using the right chemicals on my stove?

* If the nanny is shaking the baby?

* If my husband is having an affair?

* If my teenager is doing drugs?

* Which sibling actually started it / threw the first punch?

Those are just off the top of my head, I'm not even being creative.

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JumpCrisscross
> _What if I want to see:_ If my cleaning person is stealing?*

Use your camera. The status light doesn’t disable its ability to record and
transmit video. You want to record these people without their knowledge. That
is just wrong.

More fundamentally, change the people you interact with or your relationships
with them.

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cr0sh
> That is just wrong.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "wrong"?

For instance, it's perfectly legal to record inside your house - visibly or
not - provided it's not in an area or place where the user would expect
privacy (usually meaning a bathroom or similar place - but could be extended
to bedrooms depending on consent and other reasons).

It might be considered unethical, perhaps even immoral, depending on the
reasoning or ulimate purpose for those recordings. But legally there isn't
anything wrong about it.

Note: This all depends on your local or other laws of course...

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bluescrn
Not hard to work around... open the device up, desolder or just cover up the
LED? Or if you’re lazier, electrical tape on the exterior... Works for all
kinds of annoyingly bright status LEDs!

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nickthegreek
maybe im too much of a consumer, but I bought a pack of led dimming stickers
like the ones linked below to cover all the status lights on my computers and
such cause I hate led lights in my house at night.

[https://www.amazon.com/LightDims-Original-Strength-
Electroni...](https://www.amazon.com/LightDims-Original-Strength-Electronics-
Appliances/dp/B00CLVEQCO/)

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ryandrake
A black magic marker would work too.

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mrexroad
Depends on how bright LED is

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cr0sh
Nothing's going to get thru a black industrial sharpie; if that doesn't work,
though, black fingernail polish, or if you don't mind the expense - black
Testor's acrylic paint - will do the job.

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leecarraher
my concern is that people become conditioned to look for these lights, and
draw the conclusion that light off = camera off. This is a bad precedent, as
multiple built-in laptop webcam attacks to disable the led recording lights
can attest to. If you need privacy, don't be in front of a camera or
microphone. don't trust a clearly software controllable status light.

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awestley
I'm glad I ditched all my nest stuff.

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post_break
I'm pissed because the whole point of an outdoor camera is to not advertise
when someone is watching. If they don't back pedal on this I'm switching to
ubiquity and running my own NVR so I don't have to worry about someone in
california deciding to change how a product I own works.

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heavenlyblue
>> is to not advertise when someone is watching.

Are you doing a Ph.D in social sciences?

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post_break
Why the snarky comment? When you're outside or on my property you have no
expectation of privacy.

