
A Man. A Van. A Surprising Business Plan. - slamdunc
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/01/04/144636898/a-man-a-van-a-surprising-business-plan
======
johnnyg
There are going to be a lot of vans parked on that corner before long.

If I'm these guys, I realize that my moat is weak and do these things:

1\. Do not interview with NPR. It isn't like you are driving business. You are
only attracting competitors.

2\. Park 6 vans outside, each with a different dba so that the market looks
saturated.

3\. Make a retail space, see if it does better than the vans.

4\. Look nation wide for similar geographic anomalies that would create this
same pain point. Park a van at one of them and send one of the owners to sit
in it. See if money can be made. Repeat.

There are many unemployed people in America right now, it sounds like several
dozen can go rent a van and fix the glitch. :-)

~~~
larrydag
There may be competitors but the initial "branding" will still hold. Guys/gals
in blue shirts and red hats and great customer service will differentiate from
any would be competitors. Emphasizing the customer service will make sure
competition stays away.

~~~
johnnyg
How it has come to the point where I'm rebutting the reasonable opinion of a
stranger on the internet regarding a business I didn't start, haven't run and
don't really know about I'm not sure, but here we go...

One time I went tubing with a friend. We borrowed his brother's vehicle. His
brother is a SWAT team member. My friend left the FOB in his pocket and it
fell out, given up to the river gods. His brother had the vehicle rigged
against hot wired jump starts. Clever fellow.

It was at that moment, and not an instant before, that we started paying
attention to "Lock Smith For Hire" and "Jump Start Service" signs. The first
guy to pick his phone up was hired.

The guy who came to jump us took an hour to show up, was an ass and didn't
really quote us a price or listen to our description of the problem - but heck
if he didn't have that car running 5 minutes later.

Point is, when you are down to the felt unexpectedly, you'll take the first
option you can get and will judge the service in binary - it did or didn't
solve your problem. If I was going to have to go the half mile to BK, but now
I don't, that's good customer service.

Ever used a bail bond company to get someone out of jail? Someone had peed on
the only unoccupied seat. There were still 4 customers in line ahead of me. I
doubt the guys across the street offered much better. They didn't really need
to.

You can't advertise in the paper "need help filling out your visa?" and expect
a good return. You can't give out free drinks with your return and expect to
drive repeats. Your whole business is being a printer at the right place at
the right time.

Yes, if one guy wants 3 visas over his life time (they expire, he travels
often, etc) then perhaps you can make 'em loyal and garner repeat business.
That seems a small-ish portion due to the type of business.

Yes, if there are 10 vans out there and yours offers a free drink with the
service, you will get more business until all your competitors copy your offer
- then you'll all be giving away that margin, and probably paying a guy to
make sure your new offers are more attractive than the other van's offers
besides.

You won't drive repeat business by being super nice or wearing matching getups
due to the type of business, in my humble opinion. If you are in many other
types of businesses this make a lot of sense and should be focused on, but
saying "customer service wins every time" seems like an over reach.

To me, a better investment would be great signage/advertising
dominance/figuring out who owns that land and buying it/paying who ever owns
that land to disallow other vans from parking there/etc.

~~~
vidarh
> You can't advertise in the paper "need help filling out your visa?" and
> expect a good return.

You probably can at least get a decent return that way - it's how I got my
Chinese visa when I went a few years back.

In a lot of major cities near Chinese consulates there are companies that
specialize in filling out the forms and waiting in line with you, and many
which will offer to have your passport picked up and couriered back to you.

------
BenoitEssiambre
Am I the only one who read that in a hip hop voice?:

"We've all been there. Trapped in line at the D-M-V

Or stuck on hold while trying to call a city a-genCY.

It's easy to complain about government bureau-craCY.

But it's the rare person who sees such ineffi-cienCY

as a business opportuniTY.

Meet Adam Humphreys. He lives in New York CiTY

It started simpLY

enough. Adam found out he needed a viSA

to travel to ChiNA.

for a vacation. His bureaucratic haSSleS with the ChineSe conSulate launched a
whole new buSineSS.

"Can you help me?" he said.

No!

"Do you have a printer I can use?" he tried.

No!

~~~
bjcy
Yes.

But damn you, it's now stuck in my head, with half a day left at work. I blame
you if my function signatures all start to rhyme.

~~~
lukifer
The idea of rhythmic code is blowing my mind a little bit. Perhaps when
executed it outputs the MIDI for a back-beat?

------
jitbit
I was born in Russia. Where they still have vans like this next to the US
embassy, the UK embassy, the Canadian embassy, the
French/German/Spanish/Swedish embassies, heck, all the "western" countries'
embassies. We're used to it.

This "business plan" is 60 years old. When the WW2 was over and the world was
(stupidly) divided into two parts. Visas are PITA. You, Americans, just not
very used to it... Fortunately.

~~~
dbuxton
I've never seen this at either the British or the Canadian embassies in
Moscow...

~~~
jitbit
I should've written "VISA Application Centers" not embassies (they're not the
same place)

------
dugmartin
I wonder how many HN folk's first inclination would have been to create a
website to do this instead of rent a van and deal directly with people? How
much do we hold ourselves back by trying to go directly to a scaleable
solution?

~~~
cperciva
Given that the initial pain point was _needing a printer_ , I hope most people
here would have enough sense to realize that an online-only solution wouldn't
work.

~~~
jaipilot747
Or you could create a site where people would always get the latest forms and
proper guidance? It wouldn't help the applicants who get rejected at the
consulate though.

~~~
Tuna-Fish
Your problem at that point is getting the customers to you. I'd be willing to
bet that not many people would be willing to pay for it _before_ they have
tried and failed at the consulate. And at that point, they are going to
stumble on that van before they see your website.

~~~
Splines
That's an interesting take - there's always the danger that filling in the
gaps in someone else's product will cause that someone else to wake up and
fill it in for you.

Seeing as this is a government failing, however, makes me think that it'll be
a long time before they decide to improve enough to make these guys
unnecessary.

------
ShabbyDoo
I talked to a guy in Chicago who just opened-up an upscale bar/restaurant. His
description of the corruption and bureaucratic hassles reminded me of stories
told to me by Indian friends about getting basic stuff done in India.
Apparently the Chicago liquor permit process required standing for hours in
lines only to be told that you were in the wrong line, had the wrong
documents, etc. This guy gladly would have paid a couple hundred bucks for a
"guide" of sorts.

I'm sure there are high-end, lawyer-run advisory services which handle these
issues for large clients. Perhaps the opportunity lies in the middle-ground?
People who don't have complex needs but don't want to waste hours of their
day? I'm thinking about the walk-in, "Minute Clinics" at CVS and other
pharmacies which are run by nurse practitioners. Nurses there know how to
treat basic stuff and how to decide if someone's needs might be beyond their
expertise. It works out pretty well for the patient who just wants to confirm
that he has strep throat and get some antibiotics.

------
petenixey
I could see the same thing doing well outside the US embassy in London.

Offer a US-visa sized passport-photo service, a locker to put your phone when
you can't take it into the embassy and some tissues to wipe away your tears of
joy/despair and you'd be in business.

Add to that a £10 glossy file to give the assorted papers of your $2,000
application that final touch of gloss and you could make a wonderful income.

~~~
brc
OT but funny story I heard. The US Embassy in London wants to buy the land
underneath it in Grosvenor Square. That bit of land is owned by the Duke of
Westminster. He said he would gladly agree to sell them the land as soon as
they returned his familys land in Virginia and New Hampshire that were taken
in the 18th century.

I doubt it is even remotely true but funny nonetheless.

------
hiccup
Great business. Serves an identified need for people with a real pain point.
I'm glad to see that they're erecting some barriers to competition with native
Mandarin speakers and a service oriented atmosphere.

It'll probably last a few months at least, but make hay while the sun shines.
Doing NPR probably wasn't a great idea since their customers don't find them
via traditional advertising means, but are literally thrown on their doorstep
by the Chinese consulate.

~~~
Game_Ender
The first thing I thought of was, why aren't they getting some kind of parking
ticket for their vehicle? Extra publicity is certainly not going to help them
if they are violating any city ordinances with their business model.

~~~
marquis
In the audiocast they said they have the occasional parking ticket.

I use visa consultants. If they set up a website front I'd be happy to seek
them out next time I go to China. Sounds like they know the system inside out
and $20 is a small price to pay for sanity.

------
alexchamberlain
If they are making $500 a day, they only need this to work for a few months,
then they have enough cash to keep them going for a few more to come up with
another great idea.

I'm not sure it's sustainable, but it's certainly viable!

~~~
r00fus
Or branch out... my experience with the French consulate was ... uncomfortable
the first time, and I would have paid handsomely to not have to go back again
for the same Visa.

I soon realized that the Consulate's job for many countries is to _keep people
out_... only when I went to the UK consulate did I see an attempt at customer
service.

In fact, any country without a US visa waiver [1] sounds like a decent target
market, as all visits would require a trip to the Consulate.

[1]
[http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1990.html#...](http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1990.html#countries)

------
nemesisj
Most of the trouble with the Chinese Visa system is the requirement that you
apply in person. Note that this is for reciprocity against the USA requiring
the same in-person application for Chinese nationals visiting the USA. There
are several "by-mail" services that just stick a runner in line with your
documents, I've used one for the last several trips to China.

These services are expensive, like roughly 50-100 bucks, depending on which
consulate you're using. Those who stand in line risk running into trouble like
the folks in this story, and I'm sure they're more than happy at this point to
fork over some cash for the help they need.

~~~
waqf
> _Note that this is for reciprocity against the USA requiring the same in-
> person application for Chinese nationals visiting the USA._

So what you're really saying is that most of the trouble with the U.S. visa
system is the requirement that you apply in person.

You as a U.S. citizen experience the policy through reciprocity, everyone else
experiences it directly :).

~~~
nemesisj
Yes precisely :) It's a major pain in everyone's ass. I don't have enough
experience to know if this is only the case in Asian or 3rd World countries,
but I wouldn't be surprised if the "in-person" requirement is dropped in
Western European or developed nations.

This is why there are a significant number of customers who try to go-it-alone
and ignore the website (more expensive) option only to be frustrated and
realize that 20 bucks is a pittance compared to not being able to travel.

~~~
waqf
I considered answering that question in my post above, but I thought I'd wait
for someone to ask :).

The "in-person" requirement is dropped for the Visa Waiver Program, which
applies if you're from a "nice" nation _and_ you want to stay no more than
three months _and_ you don't want to work or study _and_ you don't have a
criminal record (in any country) _and_ you're not on any secret U.S. lists of
"interesting" people.

~~~
vidarh
And of course you need to not tick "yes" to the questions about wanting to
enter the US to traffic drugs, having committed genocide or been involved in
espionage and other fun things on the visa waiver form prior to landing. That
form is always the most hilarious thing about any trip to the US.

------
felideon
Interesting. Having done all the paperwork myself for my wife's visa (thanks
to help from visajourney.com) I always wondered how much 'consulting' one
could do without being an immigration lawyer.

By the same token, if I am not a tax accountant how much tax advice can I give
someone for a fee?

Granted, on the surface the Lucky Dragon Mobile Visa Consultants are just
providing an internet and printing service — so there shouldn't be much of an
issue. However, would they have to be careful of going from "What form do you
need?" to "Hey, before you go in there, you probably need this form instead."

~~~
sliverstorm
If what I've read about lawyers applies, basically you can give as much tax
advice as you like for a fee, until someone sues you for bad advice and you
get fleeced.

There might be regulatory boards that go around making sure everyone
practicing has credentials, but I bet the first case would catch up to you
sooner.

------
forinti
This used to be common in Brazil: a guy in a VW van with a typewriter to help
you with bureaucracy. I see the fact that these characters are gone as a sign
of progress, so it's funny that this has shown up in the US.

~~~
Vivtek
Yeah, there's a whole cottage industry across the street from the DMV in
Puerto Rico.

~~~
mey
Got married in Puerto Rico a bit ago, and extremely happy we worked with a
group that helped handle the marriage license details.

------
ck2
Oh it's not just the competition that will ruin this for them giving this
interview.

It's the law enforcement that won't allow them to park and run a commercial
business like that.

------
five18pm
This is what happens in front of every single Indian government office - state
or central :(

~~~
balakk
For people who are wondering why this is a bad thing, some context:

In India there are two groups among such "entrepreneurs"

\- People who make out a genuine living buy providing typewriting, proof-
reading and other services. There's a genuine need for this, because of the
relative lack of literacy and byzantine rules.

\- Touts. Vermin who have an unholy nexus with the bureaucracy, and generally
thrive on rampant corruption.

The second group is the reason for despair. Widespread computerization only
helps to an extent; such services still tend to involve manual processes, and
corruption does not stop.

------
cdibona
Let's do the math:

Gas + Truck Rental = 100$/day. Parking/tickets in front of embassy: Free?
Costly?

3 people (or 4? The article says they have 2 mandarin speakers on tap) in said
truck for 8 hours + back and forth time splitting the remainder and you have a
bit under 12.5/hour.

That said, they're not being up front about how much they make, and given its
probably largely a cash business ...

~~~
pflats
The article did say that "he" makes $500/day, which I interpreted as Adam's
own net. 3 people a day, $500 each founder, maybe less for the translator
(flat wage rather than a stake?), that's a decent business.

If it's $500 in total income for the team, though, that's another story.

~~~
cdibona
Yeah, that would be a bit better, then they'd pass 25 or 30 per hour.

------
arnoldwh
I live across the street from this, and I've always wondered what these guys
did. Great to read their story, and I've got to say it definitely takes guts
to put yourself out there day in and day out (especially right now when it's
14 degrees outside!).

------
prawn
Last time I went to China was just before the Olympic Games and security was a
little higher - not sure if it's since relaxed. You needed to list an
itinerary for the trip and, specifically, accommodation for each night you
were there. I, however, was looking to arrive with basically the contents of
my pockets and then make things up as I went along. (Turns out my phone died
and I was still wandering Shanghai at 2am until I settled on a hotel, but
that's a separate matter.)

Solution was to book a couple of the cheapest hostels in a believable travel
pattern, get stamped confirmation letters and then cancel them once I had the
visa. I think one of the hostels was so cheap and I felt bad about cancelling
(even a month out) that for the $4/night cost, I just let them know I wouldn't
be showing up but that they could keep the money.

I wonder if arranging cheap accommodation for this purpose is a service they
offer in the van?

------
simpsond
When arranging my trip to China, I was told not to even try to get my visa by
going to the consulate. I was told to pay a service company to do it. It
worked. This certainly helps those who are willing to do it themselves.
However, if you plan to go to China, find a service to do it for you.

------
umairj
Quite an interesting story, I would like to point out that being from
Pakistan, I have seen such services since the first day that I went outside a
passport office. Here in Karachi, you can find people providing Copy services,
to scanning and printing and also what they call here is document composition
where the guy writes a complete letter application for the client to be
submitted in the Govt office. You can also find different Oath Commissioners
(for document attestation). And all these are commonly found outside courts
and other Govt offices, usually having a desk under a tree !

------
carlsednaoui
Find a problem: Check

Think of a solution: Check

Take some calculated risks: Check

Bring your solution to customers in need: Check

Make money: Check

This is brilliant!

------
swombat
> _And it's clear that Adam Humphreys and Steven Nelson have stumbled on a
> viable business. In a van. On the street._

Well, that all depends on your definition of viable. Being dependent on a
single bureaucratic bug for your livelihood is not that great. They need to
diversify a bit before this can really be called viable.

~~~
AndrewDucker
If there is one thing you can depend on bureaucracy for it's an endless stream
of new bugs to work around.

------
conradfr
Thought it was going to be about BangBus.

~~~
derwildemomo
second.

------
pnathan
I think there's a huge market out there for beauracracy negotiation/consulting
services. Every time I open up an insurance information packet, I am deluged
with many options, all slightly different, all carrying different
implications.

I want something _simple_.

~~~
justincormack
Or an opportunity for the bureaucracy to simplify stuff and improve their UX
and kill these businesses.

~~~
invalidOrTaken
Why would a bureau see this as an opportunity? What could they gain?

------
shimi
I went to the American consulte in Tel - Aviv about a week after they've
changed the Visa procedure and had a missing form. The consulte did had a
couple of PC's but non of them could access an email account.

I wondered to the street and found a coffee shop next to the consulte that
provided all the services you'll need, lockers (this part is strange since you
can't pretty much bring anything to the consulte e.g. a mobile phone lockers
are essentials, I know that other consultes like the one in Sydney provides
lockers), printer, and for a fee will feel up your forms.

So this isn't a new idea, but its an interesting phenomenon.

BTW I got my visa, and I must admit that the consulate service was outstanding

------
bond
See an opportunity and take it...

~~~
sgt
Right. I applaud this. Even if this opportunity will only last a few more
months, they'll be sitting on thousands of dollars in cash (less what they
actually spent on living costs), that can be used for their next startup -
most likely based around a much bigger idea.

~~~
Veera
In India, there are lots of people who makes their living out of the money
earned by helping people to fill out forms outside every Government office.
And they are in this business not just for few months but for a long time.

------
taylorbuley
Government creates inefficiency and markets spring up (here, drive up) to take
advantage. Classic lesson of economics.

~~~
kawera
"The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy."
-- Oscar Wilde

------
ilaksh
The thing that bothers me is that everyone just accepts that the initial
problem -- lack of printers or whatever at the government office -- won't get
solved in that office.

I think everyone's premise is that the bureaucracy is unchangeable and
unfixable, which in the short term and for an individual or small group is a
realistic and practical perspective, but a longer-term responsible view for
society is that the initial problem should be resolved.

First of all, its not _impossible_ to improve a bureaucracy. However, it is
quite difficult, and therefore I think that in most cases bureaucracy needs to
be replaced by a much more functional and responsive model.

Speaking of government versus private in general, we have two modes: 1) a
private mode which has a profit motivation but no legal or ethical motivation
but which is (supposedly) restricted in its capacity for monopoly and has
(supposedly) highly restricted authority for force, and 2) a government mode
has ultimate legal and ethical motivation and responsibility and total
monopoly on force authorization and the domains of government.

I think we should be able to formulate another mode of operation that works
better.

------
michaelleland
There's an opportunity for some A/B testing, not just of price but of service.
Another van, parked at another consulate, could vary one thing and the team
could measure the gains/losses. I imagine this kind of thing is done in retail
all the time.

~~~
omarchowdhury
They could also setup another competing van in the same area.

------
irunbackwards
I'm thinking more of a Life Aquatic look.

------
tyler_ball
Upvotes for any headline with alliteration.

~~~
bobwebb
No alliteration here! Just rhyming.

