
China recalls giant pandas from San Diego Zoo amid U.S. trade war - ycombonator
https://observer.com/2019/05/china-recall-giant-panda-san-diego-zoo-us-trade-war/
======
duxup
I always thought the pandas were a sort of friendly good will gesture that
didn't cost them much, seems like an odd olive branch to withdraw that I guess
might play well in China, but it's not like it would change many opinions in
the US. Seems like a silly thing to withdraw.

If anything this seems like the sort of no cost good will thing you LEAN ON in
tough times.

------
citilife
The U.S. effectively is trying to cripple a few major corporations from
China... their response is "I'm going to take my Panda back"

I don't really see China's negotiating position here, but if that's what they
can do - then the U.S. definitely has the leverage.

~~~
Spooky23
It's a way to signal displeasure in a diplomatic way. It's not about a bear,
it's about taking back a gift. Diplomacy is more about subtlety.

US headlines are dominated by our administration's boorish behavior and we
don't get a good picture. The reality is that these issues are more nuanced,
and China can achieve outcomes that benefit them in different ways. A common
narrative that the BRIC countries are developing is that the US is too
volatile to deal with.

Re: leverage, at the end of the day, the US doesn't have the capability to do
lots of manufacturing. Our primary export to China is cash. We don't have the
machinists, don't have the ability to train for the skills needed to
manufacture, and will need to buy tooling from China. Real competitive
pressure is decades away. The vaporization of commercial banking means that
nobody will be building factories either.

Tariffs generate revenue and are regressive, but ultimately you need to get
your iPhone somewhere, and the fabs for SSD, memory, etc and a million other
components are located mostly in China. Forget about this as a "trade deal",
it's a tax increase.

~~~
Fjolsvith
> Re: leverage, at the end of the day, the US doesn't have the capability to
> do lots of manufacturing. Our primary export to China is cash. We don't have
> the machinists, don't have the ability to train for the skills needed to
> manufacture, and will need to buy tooling from China.

This is not a problem for the US. Companies have accelerated a shift of
manufacturing to other Asian countries during the last year [1]. As far back
as 2013, China was facing an exodus of factories [2].

> Real competitive pressure is decades away.

I doubt this. Although some opinions say China has more leverage than the US
[3], "The country’s heavy debts, built up over years of lending used to spur
growth, limit its options. If it retaliates against the United States sharply
by devaluing its currency or shutting factories crucial to global supply
chains, the moves could ricochet and hurt its own newfound wealth.

...

Its tremendous success in nurturing its own homegrown industries, which has
helped China’s economy rise up the value chain, has reduced its imports of
American goods, giving it fewer items to hit with tariffs." [4].

1\. [https://www.theepochtimes.com/us-tariffs-adds-financial-
pres...](https://www.theepochtimes.com/us-tariffs-adds-financial-pressure-to-
foreign-manufacturers-in-china-pushing-them-to-leave_2610229.html)

2\. [https://www.mckinsey.com/business-
functions/operations/our-i...](https://www.mckinsey.com/business-
functions/operations/our-insights/a-new-era-for-manufacturing-in-china)

3\.
[https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/05/ch...](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/05/china-
has-more-leverage-thank-you-think-trade-war/589726/)

4\. [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/17/business/china-trade-
infl...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/17/business/china-trade-
influence.html)

~~~
Fjolsvith
Starting to look like China is having some supply chain disruption too:

[https://www.digitalphablet.com/intel-and-qualcomm-also-
bans-...](https://www.digitalphablet.com/intel-and-qualcomm-also-bans-huawei-
stops-supply-with-immediate-effect)

------
dangero
How do we know that the panda recall is tied to the trade war? Makes no sense
since the article mentions that several other zoos in the US still have
pandas. This seems like clickbait.

------
logfromblammo
Seems like an odd gesture of annoyance. It's not like there can be that many
people that go to the San Diego Zoo just to see the pandas. From what I can
see in the article, China "loans" their female panda to SDZ, then she gets
pregnant, delivers babies, and they get shipped back to China when they are
weaned. It really sounds like a good deal for them--SDZ takes care of the
animal at their own expense and periodically sends back babies.

China can't recall the panda expertise of the zookeepers in San Diego--or the
panda habitat and operations funding--along with the panda, so if the recalled
female fails to get pregnant while in China, that's a loss for the worldwide
panda conservation program. SDZ visitors will still be in one of the largest
zoos in the entire world, and can walk past the closed exhibit to the next
one.

It's like National Lampoon's "buy this magazine or we will shoot this dog"
issue, except not a joke. "Lower your tariffs or we will threaten this
species?"

------
NotPaidToPost
This article is 2 days old and this had been announced in March. [0]

The loan agreement was coming to an end in late April and the Chinese said
that they would not renew it.

It's not quite the same as deciding to take them back in retaliation to the
last round of tariffs/anti-Huawei measures.

[0] [https://phys.org/news/2019-03-zoo-beloved-giant-pandas-
china...](https://phys.org/news/2019-03-zoo-beloved-giant-pandas-china.html)

------
Digory
Not directly tied to the trade war.

China has been declining to renew all of the international panda "loans" as
they expire. They now have the breeding expertise in country.

So it isn't retaliation, just another example of how China treats foreign
"partners" after the IP is transferred.

~~~
duxup
>They now have the breeding expertise in country.

I thought that was always the case.

~~~
Digory
Captive breeding for conservation has been a long term issue, and needed
international help. There's a reason the World Wildlife Fund's logo is a
panda.

[https://www.fws.gov/international/animals/giant-
pandas.html](https://www.fws.gov/international/animals/giant-pandas.html)

~~~
duxup
I still thought that most breeding was always done in China.

------
ngcc_hk
Anyway it is another export. When one can import - wharsapp, google play,
Facebook, hackers, news, ... to china.

