
Farm in SE Australia is growing native grains for flour and bread - oska
https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2020/may/13/its-time-to-embrace-the-history-of-the-country-first-harvest-of-dancing-grass-in-200-years
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ImaCake
I listened to the audio book of it back in January and it has completed
changed how I see the Australian landscape and it's aboriginal people. What is
interesting is that the topics and ideas in the book are not new among
academics (although some arguments Pascoe makes are controversial). Pascoe's
book has popularised these ideas and spread them to the public. I hope the
ideas gain traction here, we would do well to integrate some of these ideas
into our farming practices and our views on Australian aborigines.

~~~
shermozle
Pascoe's conclusions aren't really controversial in historical circles, only
political ones. The primary sources quoted in the book make it pretty there
was more extensive agriculture going on than most Australians think.

~~~
goatforce5
And, for the non-Australians in here, the lack of agriculture is essentially
one of the boxes you have to tick before you can invoke the concept of Terra
Nullius, which is what the English relied on to claim Australia.

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KorematsuFred
One my high school project in India was to do a detailed study of "native"
rice varieties from my village. I ended up winning a national level prize for
it.

My village had over 30 different varieties of rice which the central planners
of country would dub as "backward". Backed by centralized international bodies
such as UN, WHO etc. (probably pressure from US etc.) we were told these
native varieties were inefficient and lacked nutrients. We were then provided
seeds of "higbreed" rice which gave us lot more yield per acre for couple of
years and reached much lower yield levels after 5 years. It tastes as shit.
Since the original seeds were lost except in seed banks maintained by local
temples it was not possible to bring back our old varieties.

Now the government begs us to grow back the native rice. We can't as rice
farming has become economically less attractive to us.

~~~
luckylion
So you can't use seeds from the seed banks to grow rice? What are the seed
banks for then, are they just ceremonial?

~~~
stuaxo
Read to the end, it's because it's uneconomical.

~~~
luckylion
I did read that, but it's conflicting with the previous paragraph ending with
_it was not possible to bring back our old varieties_.

I understood that to mean that they were not able to bring back the old
varieties (at some point in the past) and _now_ the government wants them to
re-grow them, but they've moved on from rice-farming because it's not
economical (because of lower yields).

~~~
kjs3
I don't think any of that is conflicting; probably just a quirk of language.
Agriculture requires infrastructure and space. If you've moved on from rice
farming because it's not economical, it might _not be possible to bring back
old varieties_ because the infrastructure is gone, or the rice paddys have
been covered with buildings, or some such.

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sytringy05
I think I saw this on a tv show recently (maybe catalyst on the ABC). They
said it was a $1000 loaf, given how much effort went into getting the grain.

~~~
dumbfoundded
Generally, these types of issues are the easiest to solve. The genetics side
is a much tougher, longer scale problem. If they can make marginal land
productive, someone will figure out how to build the processing equipment.

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baybal2
In general, I find it weird how countries with western cultures have nearly
forgotten all staple foods except for rice, possibly oats as an oatmeal, and
white/red beans.

It was a big surprise for me when I arrived to Canada that barley, spelt,
millet, and buckwheat were so hard to find.

Right now, I have 11-12 different boxes of grains and pulses in my kitchen
drawer, and I am not feeling much likes for exotic foods.

~~~
Xylakant
That’s a bit of a generalization. I’m from germany, so definitely a western
culture. At the moment I have at least 10 different kinds of flour from at
least five kinds of grain (including spelt, buckwheat and millet) in my
cupboard. This is certainly above average, but neither of them is hard to
find. They’re all from the store next door. At least buckwheat and spelt are
widely available in all supermarkets, some more exotic grains like emmer or
einkorn are available in most organic supermarkets.

What’s harder to get are different types of flour, some of which are fairly
regional. For example “Spätzlemehl” is commonly available in the south, but
generally unavailable in the north. Italian Tenero 00 flour is only available
in select places. Whenever Swiss friends come visit I ask them to bring some
Ruchmehl - Standard Swiss wheat flour - as it’s generally unavailable in
Germany (unless you order online at your friendly local mill)

~~~
gambiting
Germany is really good about this. So is Poland in fact. But UK is like a
desert of food variety. You want to buy some barley? Well, maybe the "health"
isle in a supermarket will have some in 300g packets, because no one buys this
stuff. Flour? Like.....white or wholemeal? That's about it. There are
different brands of course but the variety is exactly zero.

And don't get me started on meat and butchers - I'm conviced that British
people don't know what an actual butcher is. The biggest joke are always
"butchers" in a meat isle like in Morrisons, who are only allowed to serve
very specific cuts of the 4-5 meats they have on display. Try asking if you
can just buy some bones for broth(sorry mate, not allowed to sell them), or
_the horror_ ask if you can buy some giblets, like chicken hearts or stomachs
- nope, they never get them from "the factory". So....are you a butcher? Or a
glorified cashier? And it's the same even at proper markets, where you'd think
they'd have more flexibility - "nah mate, health and safety mate, can't sell
you these". Just piss off.

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Xylakant
I’m curious since both you and my parent specially mentioned barley: what do
you use it for? I can’t think of any common use for barley except brewing and
I’ve never consciously seen it in a store (though I may have missed it since I
have no use)

~~~
gambiting
I use it for the same meals you could use rice or pasta for it just has more
"bite" than either one of those. When cooked in a vegetable broth it has a
very pleasant flavour too.

~~~
Xylakant
Ok, thanks. That would be what’s called “graupen” in germany, rolled and
polished grain. That’s fallen a bit out of favor, but I know it was once
common.

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twic
> We found a plant, we still don’t know what it is, which came back after the
> fires, a lovely little onion type thing, absolutely sensational.

Now i want to know about the onion!

~~~
Symbiote
I'd like to know the scientific (Latin) names for mandadyan nalluk, but I
can't find it.

Does anyone know?

~~~
pvaldes
Is probably a mix

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twic
The article skims over Pascoe's conflict with Bolt and Cashman. If you're
interested in the agriculture, then that's for the best, but otherwise, here's
a view on it:

[https://www.adelaidereview.com.au/latest/2020/01/24/bruce-
pa...](https://www.adelaidereview.com.au/latest/2020/01/24/bruce-pascoe-dark-
emu-history-wars/)

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mb_72
This is well-written article discussing Bruce Pascoe's book "Dark Emu", issues
surrounding his Aboriginal heritage and how he's been criticised by certain
right-wingers in Australia: [https://www.themonthly.com.au/blog/russell-
marks/2020/05/202...](https://www.themonthly.com.au/blog/russell-
marks/2020/05/2020/1580868886/taking-sides-over-dark-emu#mtr)

(Pascoe is the farmer in the linked article).

~~~
thomasfromcdnjs
That book is sitting right in front of me, funny to see it mentioned here.

My sister brought it home the other day from her work, she is an Aboriginal
arts officer who works at the thetorch.org.au/about/ (arts program for
prisoners and ex-offenders)

At family gatherings we don't really eat any native plants, mostly Taro. Where
we are from in FNQ (coastal), we eat a lot of turtle, periwinkles, mudcrab and
other shell fish.

Fun fact: On your native tribal land in Australia you are allowed to eat green
sea turtle and dugong which is illegal for the rest of Australia. In my life
so far, I've had some green sea turtles but never heard of anyone eating a
dugong.

~~~
Baeocystin
They're both endangered animals. Legal or not, I have to ask- why?

~~~
thomasfromcdnjs
I don't really have enough time to flesh out a thorough answer.

But I would say in short, most of the culture was completely destroyed, and
the turtle population of sea turtles shortly after by modernity
(fishing/pollution).

Cuisine generally being a pillar of most cultures, some perhaps think it may
be a little unfair to also take that away.

They could easily ban the number one killer of turtles, trawlers, in larger
portions of their habitats.

Because aboriginals are also a low socioeconomic class of Australia, they
don't even own boats so the likelihood of them even catching a fraction of
what the fishing industry kills is quite low.

\----

Another reason why? Food.

Take the example of Efate island in Vanuatu. It is the main hub for the native
populations, but also now a tax haven and a tourist destination. The island
itself has probably ~50,000 Ni-van (natives) who make a minimum wage of $95 a
week. The price of western goods is marked up more than it cost in Australia,
so a beer might cost $8. So although they work, to get ahead and enjoy
themselves they usually also try to eat off the land. Fishing being one of
their main staples.

But with the influx of resorts over the decades, the government declared that
you essentially can't fish anywhere in surrounding waters around the island.
Mostly because they wanted as many fish as possible for the snorkeling
business for the resorts. Think gentrification but not only making the cost of
living too expensive but also taking away the food supply.

\----

One last edit.

Most aboriginals only eat turtle/dugong on special occasions e.g. an elders
60th

The hunting laws also only allow traditional methods, spear and hand. (people
do use engine boats though)

It is also in the best interest of the indiginous to not kill off the
populations.

From my own personal experience this seems to be respected.

I don't have any strong opinions myself, sociological nuance isn't quite
science.

A lot of Australian wildlife conservation momentum comes through aboriginals
who fight to protect heritage. I'm sure, at the end of the day there is some
immeasurable balance of allowing them to live their culture, eat and protect.

~~~
ch4s3
This is a really interesting peak into a part or Australia that I don’t know
much about. Thanks for sharing!

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danieltillett
There are so many more interesting Australian native food plants that make
more sense to concentrate on growing than native grasses. Not the most
productive use of time and land.

~~~
dunco
Can you elaborate on this? One of the main benefits of growing these
grasses/grains is that they can grow on land that is otherwise unproductive
(we have a lot of this in Australia). Do you have knowledge that this is not
the case?

~~~
danieltillett
Grains are not able to be productive without huge inputs of fertilisers and
agrochemicals. These marginal lands would be better off left as grazing
country.

One thing we could do is improve the meat conversion of kangaroos and
wallabies. Some serious selective breeding could provide a commercially viable
way to use these lands without the environmental damage resulting from cattle
and sheep.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
_These marginal lands would be better off left as grazing country._

From what I've read a lot of Australia seems to be over-grazed.

~~~
danieltillett
Yes because we graze imported ruminants - I am suggesting we try and make our
native animals a viable grazing option.

Kangaroo is very tasty and low in fat. Selective breeding like we have done
with cattle and sheep could make them commercially viable rather than be seen
as a pest.

