
Ask HN: Bad user experience angers and depresses me – what can I do about it? - throwaway894028
When I encounter what I strongly believe to be indefensibly poor design, I get feelings of anger and depression; anger that such stupid decisions could be made and that I must deal with them, and depression that I am largely powerless to change the situation.  In particular, poor design that is part of public service (subways, signs, etc) really makes me feel as though I am getting exploited, and for some reason I almost actually feel they are personal attacks on me.<p>I currently try to justify why poor design decisions are made and to give the &quot;system&quot; the benefit of doubt. Perhaps there are cost constraints, time constraints, or perhaps the intended use case is not the one I am in -- but a lot of the time I arrive at this conclusion: &quot;this design is simply indefensible -- had the creator, or anybody involved actually <i></i>tried<i></i> the design, just once, surely they would notice the problems and fix this&quot;.  Furthermore, the fixes are sometimes very obvious. So, I think to myself, is the whole world just lazy? Stupid? Apathetic? Why would somebody make this thing the way it is, and think it is acceptable?<p>I had listed examples, ranging from NYC subway gripes, double doors where one door is locked and the handles are ambiguous, cell phone gripes, google maps, windows, etc, but there is no space for it in this post. So, for the sake of helping me, please just assume that my assessments of certain designs are accurate, and that they are undeniably awful, and had the designer(s) attempted to use their design once they would have realize this -- and that it&#x27;s not just me.<p>Lastly, and more to the point, I feel awful that such banalities can have such a profound effect on me. I realize that I may come off as whiny or arrogant or whatever -- I accept that. But it really, truly, pisses me off when I encounter bad user experience, and I honestly don&#x27;t want it to. What can I do about this?
======
Doctor_Fegg
Become an open source contributor.

OSS has some of the worst UX in the world. Look at Inkscape. Look at the GIMP
- probably the only piece of software in existence where the name is bad UX in
itself.

But because it’s open source, you can fix it.

You won’t be able to fix all the bad UX in the world. But you could make a
massive difference by applying yourself to just one project like this.

~~~
open-source-ux
_" But because it’s open source, you can fix it."_

You can't fix it really because everyone (understandably) wants a say in the
visual and interaction design of the software, but you can't design by
committee. Having many participants contributing to source code can work well,
but I don't think this model works well for design.

It sounds really undemocratic (why shouldn't everyone have their say?). And it
undoubtedly contributes to the stereotype of the designer as diva or precious
about their work. But can you think of an open source project praised for it's
visual and interaction design that was collaboratively developed with dozens
or more participants? If you can, it will be an exception, not the rule.

When there are too many participants in the design of a program, you end up
with a project pulled in every direction and pleasing to no-one. But if you go
the opposite route and limit design decisions to a dedicated UX team, you end
up generating resentment from contributors or users who feel their input is
being ignored.

------
simplecto
Sadly the most helpful comments will be voted to the bottom.

If the world around you is making you angry and depressed (regardless of
reasons), then perhaps consider professional help for your mental health.

------
jitendrac
I would say, try to see world from others eye. eg. If door nob is to low ->
for children, Fonts too big--> For elderly, Website so dumb --> for
accessibility reasons etc.

Change your perspective, Always ask why to your self like If you find
something dumb and also in abundance, there must be reason why it is still
being used. Walk in others shoes, make your product/daily decisions thinking
the same way. It will not just work first time, Every day do meditation for
15-20 minutes and think for what you saw last day and repeat, you will have
your answers. May be you get new business idea doing so ;). That would be the
best way to handle it in my opinion.

~~~
wetpaws
Medium filled with ads and dark patterns - for management promotion

~~~
jitendrac
sorry, I did not understand. can you elaborate.

~~~
brainlessdev
I think it was just sarcasm

------
throwaway848483
It can be a combination of multiple things.

It can be your environment, some places are designed by people who don't care.
Some places even are adversarial.

It can be you, either from lack of something (sleep, magnesium, ...). It can
be you missing some understanding. Or you just don't getting that most people
either don't have your attention to details, don't care, or don't want to do
anything to improve their environment. It can be you not being the intended
audience. It can be you not putting yourself into the intended usage.

But either way, you can choose to accept it or change it and be proactive
about it and don't whine as it reinforce learned helplessness. Pick your
battles. The environment is dynamic. For example try littering and see what
happens. Or you can make some improvements to it. Or you can point and shame
on the internet.

Giving feedback in the real world is quite easy. You can carry a pen and a
stack of stickers, or a spray paint can to mark things. For example you see
ambiguous handles just mark one red sticker/dot on the handle which is closed
and a green dot on the handle which is open, (or do the opposite and set-up a
live twitch :) )

You can write letters to the mayor. You can also notice the positive small
details left by people who care, and reward them.

------
loopz
There's this story about the two shoe salesmen. The first one visited this hot
climate country, and nobody was wearing any shoes. He got really depressed,
said "Nobody is wearing any shoes here, goodbye" and left hurriedly with the
next train. The other guy smiles arriving while looking excitedly around, and
then exclaims: "Wow! Everyone is a potential customer. Nobody has even one
shoe. I must set up shop immediately!"

~~~
wool_gather
I'm not sure about this parable; it reminds me of Chesterton's fence. Our
optimistic salesman may be completely ignoring the fact that no one is wearing
shoes _because no one needs or wants to_.

~~~
unishark
> Our optimistic salesman may be completely ignoring the fact that no one is
> wearing shoes because no one needs or wants to.

Isn't that perspective represented by the first salesman? Both are seeing the
same limited data and drawing a conclusion about business potential. The
second salesman may be wrong, but their optimistic view is still a possible
one.

Especially since we know shoes can be plenty useful in hot climates and are 99
percent about fashion anyway.

------
LarryMade2
Ive sent a few emails to Website Support or Newspaper Editors when I see
something that is bad and I can offer a constructive solution. In a brief
message, stating the subject what's wrong and a short suggestion for
improvement. (maybe with an example image or PDF. Rarely get feedback,
sometimes I see the issue addressed. Either way, I can at least be satisfied
knowing that I did _something_ to improve the situation.

------
karmakaze
I'm not a UX person by any means but do appreciate good ergonomics and
begrudgingly tolerate the bad.

My first thought is that you should create a website with the worst offenders
found day-to-day and tag them with the manners in which they fail. It would be
both fun and crowdsource the popular opinion of what really bugs people.

The second part is why it should affect you so personally. My guess would be
that you have built a career on good UX and seeing examples of bad UX
undermines its importance. For this I think getting some perspective is
useful. In many cases bad UX is good enough. Unfortunately you are very
attuned to good/great UX and see any deviations as gross misses. It's like
someone with amazingly acute pitch hearing listening to what's imperceptibly
off pitch for the rest of the population. In this sense, the hypersensitivity
may actually be about you. Just my 0.02

~~~
throwaway894028
I appreciate your feedback, and you are mostly correct. I have actually
thought of making a website to document "shitty" things.. from annoying
graffiti, to terrible websites, to awful interfaces on popular products and
software. It's an issue of time and commitment, both of which are in short
supply lately.

> The second part is why it should affect you so personally.

When it's a public service where exorbitant amounts of money are spent on it,
and where it needs to serve the public and fails miserably. One thing that
comes to mind is NYC transit, which replaced giant paper maps on the platforms
with small non-touch LCD TVs that show a blurry, barely legible map -- that
is, when they are not showing advertisements, promotions, or what amounts to
government propaganda. In the above example, I know the cost associated with
this change was huge, and that it utterly fails at its design goal, and that
had anybody loaded the image on the TV just once before deciding to spend
millions replacing all of perfect usable paper maps they would have seen how
awful it looks -- and yet there it is, in front of me, at every platform.

Again with the above example, I fully realize it may not even be the fault of
the "designer", per se, given the budget, politics, time constraints,
whatever. Maybe it's because they need to cut labor costs by having a way to
update service announcements without having humans replace paper postings on
every platform. Whatever the reason, though, the shitty LCD tvs are in front
of me every time I'm on a subway platform. I cannot escape it, I pay to see
it, and I cannot change it.

Another reason for the personal offense is difficult for me to describe, but
imagine an injustice were to happen to you, and you ask the person in charge:
"You know this is wrong, but why can't you fix it?" they reply: "that's just
the way things are", or "well, life isn't fair".

~~~
karmakaze
I really feel for the position you're in. I've been in similar ones, but in
smaller, more direct scopes (e.g. within a company) regarding technical issues
other than UX.

This reminds me of "23 Minutes in Hell" which I've never read but was struck
by the description of hell as 'annoying'. At first I thought that seemed lame,
but then on further thought I realized at over eternity we could get used to
many intense things. Annoying things no matter how annoying will always be
annoying unless you can somehow psychologically reframe it.

Similarly, a girlfriend of mine used to always complain about a particular
garage door which took forever to open. After hearing this many times and
having shared her annoyance, I said that she should either do something about
it or don't mention it as it will only linger in her mind amplifying it.

It's really unfortunate that these things are below the level where you're
motivated to take action but elevated to the point of being intolerable. In
hopes that you can get to the bottom of this, I'll just point out that you
described this as 'an injustice that were happen to you' as where I would say
that the injustice was inflicted on the public at large. I think it was
something about you being hypersensitive to bad UX since you've come up with a
plausible rational explanation of the situation but it doesn't lessen the
experience. At least you don't also have an exceptional sense of smell. I'm
always moving myself about in public transit to minimize my exposure to the
wafting trails of former passengers.

------
s1artibartfast
>So, I think to myself, is the whole world just lazy? Stupid? Apathetic? Why
would somebody make this thing the way it is, and think it is acceptable?

In my personal opinion, yes, the designers probably don't care about your use
case, or about the product at all.

The designers were probably happy to collect a check and go home.

~~~
trynewideas
How many designers? Who was removed during the project to work on something
else? What was the budget and deadline, and how were they changed during the
project? Were the designers professional, full-time designers or someone from
another discipline pressed into the task? Were the design elements crafted for
the task or adapted from a library? Was the design in-house, through an
agency, through multiple agencies?

There is an excellent chance _a_ designer, maybe even _most_ designers, on the
project were not happy with just collecting a check.

There is a good chance there was not a single designer who worked on or led
the project from its start to its finish.

There is a not-insignificant chance that there were no designers "collecting a
check" for the offending design at all.

~~~
s1artibartfast
There are tons of organizational challenges that can lead good designers to
make crappy product. What I had in mind was more along the lines of fixed fee
development in India and China.

------
The_rationalist
This is relatable!

 _What can I do about this?_

1) search for alternatives (e.g another app, not always applicable) 2) report
the issue. Contribute if open source. 3) maximize your chillness: learn
stoicism, meditation, ASMR, music, social interactions, problem solving etc in
order to better cope with your cynicism intake. 4) change humans/society, e.g
by improving education or any other hard task (can be in intersection with
effective altruism goals) 5) suffer.

This is mostly a disjonction of cases of what you can do about this :}

Edit: wow this is meta! As you can see, my numbers do not have newlines. While
writing it I did inserted newlines but somehow because I'm on mobile,
hackernews got it wrong. This is a beautiful example of common mediocrity that
cause eternal avoidable "suffering" or at least needless suboptimalities in
our daily lives.

------
theonemind
I'd say you have to view it differently. You said, "So, for the sake of
helping me, please just assume that my assessments of certain designs are
accurate, and that they are undeniably awful, and had the designer(s)
attempted to use their design once they would have realize this -- and that
it's not just me." So, you'll have to enlarge your context on this. You can,
perhaps, try to empathize with people not exposed to the notion of good
design, or people that can't conceive of it, or live impoverished enough inner
lives to have no concern for it at all. You should realize that you yourself
certainly have equally large and glaring blind spots invisible to you, and
sympathize with the human condition.

If you continue to view it as simply indefensible, you'll never solve
anything. If you feel strongly about it, perhaps you can start teaching
design, or raising awareness about design. But, in the end, you have this
restricted circle of concern, this bad design _attacks you personally_ and you
_cannot forgive it_.

This piece seems insightful about this point:
[https://www.concordmonitor.com/Bertrand-Russell-conquest-
of-...](https://www.concordmonitor.com/Bertrand-Russell-conquest-of-happiness-
in-tough-times-3786493)

“I am persuaded that those who quite sincerely attribute their sorrows to
their views about the universe are putting the cart before the horse: the
truth is that they are unhappy for some reason of which they are not aware,
and this unhappiness leads them to dwell upon the less agreeable
characteristics of the world in which they live.”

“Gradually I learned to be indifferent to myself and my deficiencies; I came
to center my attention increasingly upon external objects: the state of the
world, various branches of knowledge, individuals for whom I felt affection.”
- Obviously, you've already directed your attention outwardly, but in this
case, I think you need to widen your perspective and circle of concern until
these issues seem small. You get tunnel vision on them.

“The secret of happiness is this: let your interests be as wide as possible,
and let your reactions to things and persons that interest you be as far as
possible friendly rather than hostile.”

“The wise man thinks about his troubles only when there is some purpose in
doing so; at other times he thinks about other things, or, if it is night,
about nothing at all. . . . It is amazing how much both happiness and
efficiency can be increased by the cultivation of an orderly mind, which
thinks about a matter adequately at the right time rather than inadequately at
all times.”

Anyway, my $0.02

------
lordnacho
Shouldn't you adjust your expectations as the evidence comes in? If you think
something should have been done differently, next time don't expect so much?

By updating your priors as evidence comes in, your disappointment is reduced.

I see incompetence everywhere, but I don't feel angry and depressed.

One thing that I've found essential is to have a reservoir of people who are
dependably competent. A few guys who can actually code, some who understand
the topics I'm interested in, and some who know some fields I'm not so good
at.

~~~
throwaway894028
> I see incompetence everywhere, but I don't feel angry and depressed.

Well, that's where you and I differ, I suppose. It upsets me that I'm often on
the other end of this incompetence, and that I am powerless to change it. My
only recourse is to endure it. It feels wrong, and it bothers me.

~~~
kleer001
> It feels wrong, and it bothers me.

Nobody else is responsible for your feelings.

Nothing we experience is novel.

Many solutions to our inevitable suffering have been proposed and practiced
for over two thousand years. Find one that fits. They're all pointing at the
same things, but wear different clothes.

------
n00bdude
Not sure it will help but as reading this, I recalled that Tao Te Ching quote:

“What is a good man but a bad man’s teacher? What is a bad man but a good
man’s job?”

more here: [https://cpb-
us-w2.wpmucdn.com/u.osu.edu/dist/5/25851/files/2...](https://cpb-
us-w2.wpmucdn.com/u.osu.edu/dist/5/25851/files/2016/02/taoteching-Stephen-
Mitchell-translation-v9deoq.pdf)

------
sdtsui
Have you built/coded/made/delivered things to other people? Being on the other
side of the table, so to speak, may help - as receiving their criticisms (and
knowing internally why you didn't think of making it better, or knew but
didn't have time/funding/certainty) can give a window into what was going on
when you see examples of poor design. In a way, it's narrowing the window of
"indefensibility".

In the same vein, you could consider learning more about why the poor design
decisions are the way they are. At all levels (from building and city UX to
individual products), there are myriad uncertainties and trade-offs when
building something.

Some commenters are gesturing at to mental health issues - I don't know you
well enough to feel comfortable with making a judgment like that, but on some
level, if this is bothering you deeply, anger and depression may be symptoms
of a deeper mental health issue: this might help! [https://ncase.me/mental-
health/#toc_4](https://ncase.me/mental-health/#toc_4)

------
jborichevskiy
The more you look for these patterns the more you'll notice. It's how our
brains work. I myself notice a lot of what you mention as well, and I do my
best to file it away in a "mistakes to avoid when I get to be the one making
decisions" folder in my brain. Not much more I can do beyond that, because so
much of this is a byproduct of poor incentive structures, bureaucracy, or
plain negligence. Attacking it all at once will feel like trying to boil the
ocean.

And specifically, on the doors issue. Vox has a great video on this.

"It's not you. Bad doors are everywhere."

[https://www.vox.com/2016/2/26/11120236/bad-doors-human-
cente...](https://www.vox.com/2016/2/26/11120236/bad-doors-human-centered-
design)

------
zzo38computer
Television has bad UX. To fix it, I can suggest: Don't use the cursor movement
function. Allow the numbers to be used to specify channels, input selection,
timer for sleep timer and recording duration and others, and whatever else you
might use it for. Allow commands to have optional numeric prefixes (like vi
does). Don't add functions that will delay after the command is entered and
then execute it; if the user has not finished entering it, then the user has
not finished entering it. Allow OSD to be disabled. Don't use so much fancy UI
animations and that stuff. Don't use virtual channel numbers.

------
wott
If you want to feel worse, take an interest in something in your neighbourhood
that seems wrong. After a bit of research, you will find that it is indeed
wrong, so you will get in touch with your local representatives to get this
obvious stuff fixed. That's when you will realise that they don't give a damn,
that they won't fix it even if it is their responsibility and duty to do it,
that they don't give a damn about that either, and that they have done plenty
of similar wrongs everywhere around and plenty of other wrongs too, once you
start paying attention to it (and the more informed you get about a subject,
the more wrongs you find). Then you understand that you can do whatever you
want, you're never going to get them to fix them, even though they are obliged
by law to do so, and you realise at the same time that you lived happier
before you tried making stuff better or just normal.

------
jarl-ragnar
I'd suggest you explore the world of Stoicism. You could start with
[https://twitter.com/dailystoic](https://twitter.com/dailystoic)

No point getting angry about things you cannot and never will be able to
control. Focus on what you can control and take pride in that.

------
valand
If I were you I would work it from the inside

You should first treat those bad UXs as childplays:

\- Some of them might be working back then

\- Some of them were patched so to accomplish other thing but accidentally
render them unusable

\- Some of them might be a result of rushed work due to pressure from higher
ups

\- Some of them are simply lost in translation due to time

Being angry and depressed is frustrating but you should redirect those energy
to something more worthwhile.

If you really want to contribute, broadcast your intent. Get close to someone
having authority to those stuffs with bad UX, use subtle social approach to
get things done, consult to people who could yields better UX becaus there
must be a better person doing it™.

As a child I used to be angry if my personal drinking bottle isn't put on the
table from an exact distance between two sides of the table.

I use that energy to develop instinct to design a well-architectured software,
maximizing development speed and customer satisfaction at the same time.

------
jerf
If this bothers you enough, you may want to seek out a therapist. I don't want
to and can't diagnose you over the internet, but certain phrases you use
suggest to me there are some elements that they may be able to help you with.

On the self-help front, you may want to pursue mindfulness studies, with an
eye towards the sort that helps you interrogate your own mind about why you
feel the way you do. You may be surprised where that leads. Studying stoicism
or other philosophies around acceptance may also help.

However, let me both open and close with the suggestion that professional help
may be worthwhile. I do not mean that in a bad way, but a helpful way. I am
all about self-help and independence and learning things and doing my own
thing, but there's a limit to how far that can reach and sometimes you need
direct external help.

~~~
barcodedED
this is correct normal people don't get angry over little things like this

~~~
s1artibartfast
I think it depends on the topic and intensity. For example, significant anger
over poor freeway design and traffic is extremely common and not a sight of a
psychological disorder. Same with terrible UI on common apps

------
marmaduke
I work in a public sector and I surely have pissed off people like you. I
would like to give you the benefit of the doubt, that had you been tasked with
creating a working thing with all sorts of budget and reglementary and
scheduling constraints, that you would have succeeded at all.

------
floppiplopp
Good UX requires empathy. Your feelings are the understandable result of this,
i.e. the lack thereof in products. In general, decision makers hardly care,
even if they say they do. A good UX is expensive. Results are extremely
difficult to quantize and good design is at best the promise to enhance the
experience. Furthermore, the methods of the practically ubiquitous UCD are
almost entirely focused on maximizing profits, not make good tools. If you
want to learn or get insight how to make a difference with good tools (not
products) take a look at activity theory-based interaction design.

------
yesenadam
_I had listed examples, ranging from NYC subway gripes, double doors where one
door is locked and the handles are ambiguous, cell phone gripes, google maps,
windows, etc, but there is no space for it in this post._

You can add a complete list as a comment. Please?!

~~~
scott-smith_us
Here are a few of mine:

\- Dialogs that display truncated information, but aren't resizable (looking
at you, Windows).

\- File Open/Save dialogs that always open to the same default location,
requiring the user to keep navigating to the same directory over and over.

\- Information displayed in non-selectable (thus, un-copy-paste-able) form.
Generally this is seen more in desktop and mobile apps vs. the web.

\- Anything that changes what I type without my explicit OK. This includes
IDEs with predictive completion, MS Word's on-by-default correction, and
mobile devices that auto-capitalize email addresses and automatically add a
space after a period...

\- "Secret Question" drop-downs where none of the questions remotely apply to
me

\- Required fields that shouldn't be, e.g. "Company Name"

\- Short length limits for site passwords. If you're limiting passwords to
(let's say) twelve characters, that strongly suggests that you're storing the
password in plain text on your servers (you should be storing a hash).

\- Excluded punctuation characters for site passwords. This suggests that
developer(s) decided "rather than expend the one-time effort to properly
sanitize/escape our inputs, we thought we'd just dump the responsibility to
exclude our arbitrary list of characters on the users for all time"

------
jerome-jh
Whatever you _think_ is the reason, you are depressed. Against depression and
known to work, there is: \- physical exercise \- contact with nature \-
professional advice

BTW, SAP is hiring!

'hope that made you smile :)

------
d--b
Meditation helps compartmentalizing your thoughts, so if you meditate, you
might still notice the problems and be angry at them, but you might be able to
better control the anger and tame it.

Also, it sounds like you may be angered by something else, so you are on edge,
and it’s easier to be angered at a door than at someone or at some situation.
Going to a shrink may help disentangle the anger.

And yeah I am with you: fuck google maps.

------
Eoan
People would suggest two main solutions:

1) Avoid things with bad design.

2) Find a way to accept bad design, so it doesn't affect your emotions.

The real solution is to fix the world so it has less bad design. This is about
both making people act more intelligently in the present, and ensuring that at
the very least, people do not become stupider in the far future (and,
hopefully, become at least a little smarter).

This solution involves significant changes to the entire world.

~~~
kleer001
> fix the world

I'd say "combat entropy", make it a more difficult and pernicious problem.

------
he11ow
One thing that's important, I think, is to recognize in the moment that you're
getting upset, that in that moment right there, it's not the design itself
that's causing you pain, but your reaction to it. It's not gonna be like a
"AHA! Cured." sort of revelation, but practiced repeatedly you'll start asking
yourself whether that's the ONLY option available to you, or maybe there is
something you yourself can do so as to not to suffer.

The second thing, and this I learned from Yoga, is to actively look for what's
okay. When it gets pretty uncomfortable, I try to do what my teacher once
said, which was to focus on the bits that feel well. In your case, the door
might be shitty, but the roof ain't leaking; the new maps may be crap, but the
electricity is on; Google maps is rubbish, but the phone's screen is working
alright. It's not that one good design compensates for bad design, it's that
the poor design is enmeshed in a far bigger picture, in which there are good
things, and it's your freedom, perhaps the greatest freedom, to choose where
to direct the attention to.

Third, I've rarely seen a brilliant first iteration of anything. Every so
often it happens, but more likely is to start with _something_ and get better.
So the map replacement is one: the vision for these screens may be 1. As a
revenue stream, 2. Help the visually impaired, 3. allow more functionality -
like calling a staff member quickly (whatever, I don't live and NY, this is
just examples). The implementation is rubbish, but if it's the first
iteration, that was always ever going to be the case.

Finally, here's a bit of mirroring, do what you like with it: Clever people
take great pride in their cleverness. They like that they're smart, and they
like the sharpness in their brain. And so, this often creates a blind spot to
how miserable that smart brain of theirs can make them. Like in your case,
where you said: "oh, I don't think treatment can help, but if you could list
some ways in which it might" etc - that's your proud clever brain speaking,
entrenching you in a position where you're just angry all the time. But the
rest of you recognizes this is a shitty way to be living, hence you posting to
begin with.

So maybe there are some time when it's quite okay to tell yourself your clever
brain is actually getting in the way, and use things that are not reason-
based, like trust, and emotional monitoring, and get help from someone who
worked their whole career at helping people deal with anxiety and anger.

------
shahbaby
Must be nice to live such a privileged life where you worry about trivial
imperfections.

------
nathias
seek professional help

------
temporama1
Exercise

------
ykevinator
Read a book on coping with narcissism.

------
rrzein
Go on a very long hike in a forested nature preserve.

~~~
ninkendo
wow thanks im cured

