

Ask HN: How to keep marginal employees - typhonic

I work for an engineering company that has been in business 30 years. I have been here eight.  Occasionally we let someone go who is not performing up to par, and that is probably going to happen again in the first quarter of next year.  I hear comments like &quot;His work always needs to be checked,&quot; but I believe we should have much more checking of everyone&#x27;s work.  I know we pay recruiting fees on the order of $10K per new hire, but we don&#x27;t invest like that for training or for remediation of under-performance.  I would like to come forward with ideas and knowledge that can help these co-workers become better at their jobs so that they can be retained.  I am in a position to make some sacrifices and I am willing to do that if I believe it will help make my place of employment a better place. Do you have suggestions or experience with this situation?
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aNewAccount1234
"Dave, is there anything we can do to improve your experience as an employee?
Anything we can do to help you take your skills to the next level?"

Then listen to Dave. He probably knows his work isn't as good as the rest of
the team.

I worked on a team where I was Dave. The manager tried to avoid uncomfortable
talks by making very indirect statements involving me, to my team. and my
teammates would never, ever talk to me about my work. They all talked about
it, though. Avoiding it created a _lot_ of resentment.

Getting laid off that team was, to date, the best thing I've experienced in my
career. Talk to Dave. Listen to him. Practice the conversation with someone
else, first.

~~~
cambel
This is a good suggestion.

More generally, it's good that OP you are thinking about investing in making
your team better. When I managed large teams (~350) my thinking always went in
this order for weak performers: a) What can we do to allow them to perform in
their current role (an honest discussion is usually a good place to start) b)
If they are in the wrong role, is there another role within the org where they
can thrive? c) If there is no role (typically this supported by either brutal
incompetence and/or no desire to work at this place) it's better to get them
out of there so they can find a place better suited to them.

Getting rid of bad people is good thing and shouldn't be shied away from. But
the first step is asking how to make it work.

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subrat_rout
I wish every senior level employee/manager had this thought everyday at their
workplace. That would make the organization stronger in long term and improve
quality of product much better. If every company out there try to find the
best of best which is around 10% of the pool then who will take the rest and
train them to bring up to a level? It just shows the shortsightedness of the
organization and profit as a short term goal.

------
MichaelCrawford
Quite likely you pay a lot more than $10K per new hire.

If you send me a link to your employer's homepage, I'll list it at
[http://www.warplife.com/jobs/computer/](http://www.warplife.com/jobs/computer/)

There is no charge for this service nor will there ever be. I am quite
specifically trying to do away with the practice of paying for resume
submissions. Consider that a recent study found that the average recruiter
"reads" resumes for just six seconds apiece. For that you pay tens of
thousands of dollars?

While not strictly necessary it is quite helpful if your employer's site has a
"Jobs" or "Careers" page, as well as a "Contact" page.

If your site doesn't explictly say where your office is located, please tell
me the city, state or province if any, and country.

You don't need to say that it's from you, specifically, if you wish to remain
anonymous. I get submissions from lots of people.

~~~
willthames
You also need to factor in loss of productivity while bringing a new hire into
an organisation.

They won't be 100% productive (50% might be aspirational for some roles for
the first few months) and they will also reduce the productivity of their
colleagues while they are brought up to speed.

$10k seems like a low figure for that.

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brudgers
For what my internet opinion is worth, find a place to work with a culture
that meets your professional standards, you're not going to create a business
case in favor of professionalism that persuades your current employer.

Since it is already obvious that the person will be fired and yet it hasn't
happened, company culture issues perhaps run deeper than you are in a position
to change...e.g. an engineering culture where it is believed that a second set
of eyes on work product is not just normal professionalism.

~~~
typhonic
I worry that you are right. This is my fifth job in 34 years and the best
place I have ever worked. So I was hoping to make an improvement from where I
sit instead of looking for a better environment.

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logn
Mentors who aren't in management and can meet regularly to go over tasks and
offer one-on-one customized training.

Also, the mentors themselves can benefit from this in terms of people skills.

------
typhonic
Thanks, everyone for the help. I'll be talking to Dave and working on some of
the other suggestions, too.

------
codeonfire
Are you management, engineer, software dev? Who is telling you the person's
work needs checked?

~~~
typhonic
I am an engineer and I heard that from other engineers. I have gotten a little
bit closer to management than average, not because I do superior work, but
because I am not afraid of losing my job. So some other people here will tell
me things they want management to know and some things are not mentioned to me
directly because people think I am close to management. In other words, office
politics and rumors.

