
Google blimps will carry wireless signal across Africa - richeyrw
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-05/26/google-blimps
======
LowKarmaAccount
This is the greatest innovation since Virtudyne's "The Digital Donkey" [1] —
which is a parody of SimIndiana [2]. There really have been donkey cart driven
libraries. [3]

Of course, there really have been projects that used balloons in the upper
atmosphere. It is actually difficult to maintain a balloon at a constant
altitude in the upper atmosphere because you have to account for daily
temperature variation and changing wind patterns. The most famous project of
this sort was Project Mogul[4], which attempted to put a balloon in the
atmosphere's analogue of the SOFAR channel to listen for anything that sounded
like a nuclear test in the Soviet Union. One of the Project Mogul balloons
crash landed in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947. The government's cover story was
that it was a "weather balloon", which of course, it wasn't. But it wasn't an
alien spaceship, either.

[1]:
[http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Virtudyne_0x3a__The_Digital_...](http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Virtudyne_0x3a__The_Digital_Donkey.aspx)

[2]: <http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2004/040707b.html>

[3]: <http://archive.ifla.org/V/press/pr0225-02.htm>

[4]: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Mogul>

------
lifeisstillgood
And so it begins.

There is a new age coming, one where we _realise_ surveillance is ubiquitous
and more importantly carries benefits for us as well as loss of what we
thought of as privacy.

This is probably a good thing. These blimps will not be the last of
atmospheric and LEO orbitals that will criss cross the globe and provide
always-on services we suddenly cannot live without.

We do need to manage who holds and uses information that relates to us
personally, but in the end our children will always know where they and their
friends are, will be able to look at any point on the globe instantly (want to
see the giraffe running across the Serengeti _right now_ ) and the losses,
well, we will deal with them. The benefits are going to be huge.

Tim Berners-Lee, look what you started.

~~~
mtgx
Why are you assuming this is automatically a surveillance tool? It's not a
drone with the explicit intent to search for something. It's a way to get
Internet to people.

~~~
fredsted
High resolution ground photography and mobile location tracking came to mind.

Google often cooperates with government and police.

~~~
cageface
Government and police are already logging the net. If you think you have any
privacy online you haven't been paying enough attention.

~~~
fredsted
They are. And it turned out to be a huge failure, at least here [0].

In any case, you'll have a lot more privacy if you stop using Google services.

[0] [http://techpresident.com/news/wegov/23918/denmark-
government...](http://techpresident.com/news/wegov/23918/denmark-government-
will-not-allow-ordinary-citizens-have-digital-privacy)

------
vanderZwan
I suspect it will be more mobile internet than desktops - you do have to
realise that these dayse the African economy practically runs on mobile
phones, and land lines are uncommon to nonexistent. I wonder how that changes
the way they'll use internet access.

Speaking of how society uses the internet, I traveled through Ghana for four
weeks last year and I heard that one of the reasons internet cafes aren't
really wanted in smaller towns in Ghana is that people worried about it
corrupting their youth, and not in the way you think: they worry about their
children getting involved with the 419'ers[1].

And I must admit, I did see a lot of scammers in the smaller cafes, mostly
teenage boys, often a few of them working together. Once I even witnessed a
really well organised romance scam[2]: some would be setting up fake dating
profiles, looking for pretty pictures of scantilly clad African women, some
would be chatting with unsuspecting victims, pretending to be some kind of
mail-order African bride (who sadly had a broken webcam), discussing how best
to bait the victim, and there actually was a guy "managing" the whole group.
It was crazy how coordinated the whole effort was.

Before this gets misinterpreted: I'm not saying you can't trust Africans who
are online, obviously - most of them will be people with a higher education
and internet at home or the university. I guess the problem with these small
internet cafes is that the most likely early adopters are these 419'ers.

Anyway, I wonder how getting internet access to everyone will impact all of
this. Maybe it will force the local governments to really start taking the
problem seriously.

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigerian_scam>

[2] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_scam>

~~~
Myrmornis
Even with your "Before this gets misinterpreted" sentence, your post is
essentially saying: "Oh yes, well, internet in Africa would be nice, but those
Africans, you know, they mainly use the internet to try to scam people in the
first world". As such it is inaccurate, smug, racist and ignorant, and
reflects an implicit assumption that the world should be organized so that it
is benign to the interests of affluent westerners.

~~~
rattray
I think that's a bit harsh; at least, I didn't interpret his anecdote as such.
I've spent some time in West Africa, but not much in internet cafes and none
in Nigeria (or Ghana, for that matter). I never saw anything like what he
described, so I appreciated the anecdote.

Basically, I took his observations as more an honest description than a
judgement. Your accusations of "inaccurate" and "ignorant" beg the question;
are you speaking from a point of superior knowledge on the matter?

~~~
Myrmornis
My comment was certainly aggressive, but intentionally so. That person's
response to a discussion of increased internet access for Africans was to talk
about the problem of spam email. I think I could have been harsher.

> are you speaking from a point of superior knowledge on the matter?

That seems to imply that you are in doubt about the truth value of the
following proposition: `Africans mainly use the internet to scam people in the
first world`.

~~~
freehunter
The guy even said "most of the Internet users will be of higher education", he
did nothing to imply that the majority of the users are scammers. That's all
you putting words in his mouth.

If he's demonstrating racism, you're demonstrating white guilt. I don't even
know either of your races, but I think that statement adequately highlights
the absurdness of your claim.

~~~
Myrmornis
If scamming is not a significant proportion of Ghanaian internet activity then
why is it even being mentioned in a discussion about increasing internet
access across sub-Saharan Africa?

"White guilt"? Would you care to expand? Guilt which causes me to ignore the
problem of pesky Africans using the internet to scam honest folk in rich
countries?

------
ok_craig
That image of the Google blimp almost looks like the logo was photoshopped on.
Any way to tell if that's real or not?

~~~
spacemanaki
Yep, I think it's photoshopped:
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/isafmedia/4995227882/>

~~~
ams6110
No journalistic integrity at Wired, I guess.

~~~
darkchasma
Because they photoshopped a stock image??? Seriously? You understand how
journalism and blogging works, right?

~~~
ams6110
Photoshopping an image and not captioning it as an "artist's concept" or
something similar is absolutely a violation of traditional journalistic
integrity.

This is not a picture of a "Google Blimp." It's not even a picture of a blimp
in Africa.

~~~
leecbaker
That picture is not a free-flying blimp, but an Army aerostat (tethered
balloon). About 10 are used to enforce the southern US border.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tethered_Aerostat_Radar_System>

~~~
hcarvalhoalves
Oh, the irony...

~~~
Centigonal
Irony?

~~~
hcarvalhoalves
They used the image of a _tethered_ balloon to depict one that would be
_wireless_ :)

~~~
Centigonal
Ah, thanks! I chuckled :D

------
sciurus
This article comes pretty close to plagiarizing the source article it's based
on -
[http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732397500457850...](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323975004578503350402434918.html)

------
jfb
This is so much more awesome than Glass, it defies description.

------
siculars
So is Google a carrier in these locales? Net net this is a Good Thing™ for
access in Africa. Unfortunately soon Google and other carriers like them will
be asked to implement all sorts of nasty filtering, censoring and generally
anti-privacy tomfoolery. How will this play with their base back home in the
good 'ole US of A? Recall how Yahoo got lambasted here for their cooperation
with China. And they weren't even a carrier.

------
betterunix
My girlfriend just asked a question that had not even occurred to me: what
happens during a storm? I am sure Google's engineers have a way to handle
that, but I am genuinely curious about what their solution is.

~~~
momodomo
Similarly, will it float so low that it could be shot down with a gun or
missile?

To avoid these two risks (storm and attack), I imagine it'd have to be at an
altitude above weather currents and beyond shooting range... or be able to
stabilize during a storm and be bulletproof.

~~~
themstheones
It's clear, especially considering that these are meant to fly in some
unstable countries in central Africa, that certain parties will be trying to
attack these blimps.

What kind of defenses to you think the blimps will have to defend against
these strikes? Some sort of armor plating on the underside would seem to be
the minimum. Hopefully they'll be equipped with some offensive capabilities as
well to combat and dissuade guerrilla and terrorist acts.

Or would it make more sense to just use expendable blimps, like a $10 balloon
and a $20 router?

~~~
primelens
> Hopefully they'll be equipped with some offensive capabilities as well to
> combat and dissuade guerrilla and terrorist acts.

Um ... Google drones are the last thing we need. Enough problems with the
military ones already.

~~~
da3da
Yeah, you have to think that was a joke, right? Can you imagine the headlines,
"Google Drone kills 7 on Somali border"

------
ChuckMcM
So Google gets hammered in several jurisdictions by driving a car with cameras
around and now they are planning a blimp? I'm sure an intermediate cell
network in disaster zones but full time RF surveillance? Why would a country
agree to that?

------
tokenadult
This story seems very thinly sourced. I'm having trouble verifying it through
reports in more reliable media outlets. The blog post by Google linked from
the article doesn't have the same speculation that the article submitted here
has.

------
henroth
As someone posting from rural Malawi on a perfectly fine internet connection
based on the cellular network, why blimps?

------
GIFtheory
I wonder if they've heard of these guys: <http://ahumanright.org>. They had an
interesting, albeit somewhat quixotic-sounding, campaign to buy a satellite
(TerreStar-1: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TerreStar-1>) for the same
purpose. Unfortunately, the satellite was sold before they could raise enough
money, but it looks like they're still around and contemplating ideas.

------
relaunched
I thought when they hired Eric Brewer as VP of Infrastructure it was for his
general CAP and high-scalability expertise. Maybe they hired him for his
experience bringing wireless internet to developing nations / the third
world...or both!

<http://tier.cs.berkeley.edu/drupal/>

------
cinquemb
Now AFRICOM won't need to buy more bandwidth from china…

------
cpeterso
Does broadcasting an unwanted wireless internet across a nation's borders
count as an act of war? If the US broadcast open Wi-Fi across North Korea's or
China's borders, they would be unhappy. Something like Radio Free Europe.

------
pshc
Too bad mesh networking hasn't got off the ground in a big way (?). Couldn't
individuals hoist weather balloons with mesh transmitters and build these
sorts of networks bottom-up?

------
buyx
South Africa's digital TV migration has been held up for a few years, for
various depressing, third-world reasons. Google seems to have found a
workaround, according to the article, by detecting unused parts of the
spectrum. Perhaps that's what will replace the "digital-TV dividend" in SA.

------
Yuioup
I wonder if they're taking precautions against the blimps being shot down.

~~~
abenga
Contrary to (popular?) opinion most of Africa is not a warzone. With extremely
few exceptions (Somalia, and the Democratic Republic of Congo), most of Sub-
Saharan Africa is in the middle of an extended period of peace.

It's inconceivable that if ever deployed, any of these blimps will be
interfered with in the airspaces of East Africa (aside from Somalia) or over
any country south of them.

~~~
icebraining
People were shooting drones in the US[1]; you don't to assume a warzone to
consider it a risk.

[1] [http://www.suasnews.com/2012/11/19719/activists-drone-
shot-o...](http://www.suasnews.com/2012/11/19719/activists-drone-shot-out-of-
the-sky-for-fourth-time/) (Yes, the drone may have been above private grounds;
so probably will the blimps)

~~~
saraid216
The US is also notoriously high-density in guns and the will to fire them;
many of its inhabitants do indeed believe they live in a warzone.

------
mdturnerphys
Hmmm . . . possible connection to
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5754619> ?

------
brianherbert
I'm curious, are there any plans to work with local providers? It would be a
shame for African telcoms lose out to Google.

------
jjuliano
We need to design a phone that is cheap enough and runs on distributed
wireless power + massive P2P Internet.

------
frozenport
Doesn't using TV signals or satellite require special hardware that doesn't
come on cheap android phones?

~~~
ihsw
The article is fairly light on technical details, however the signals will
probably be some manner of 3G (or even LTE).

~~~
Thrymr
> the signals will probably be some manner of 3G (or even LTE).

That contradicts the details that are in the article: "Google lobbyists are
targeting regulators across developing countries to allow them to use airwaves
currently reserved for television broadcasts - which operate at lower
frequencies and can therefore penetrate buildings and travel longer distances
than current WiFi technology." It looks like it will depend on access points
that serve as routers.

~~~
ajasmin
What is the rest of the world doing with these old analog TV bands? Is that
part of the spectrum already exploited by cell carriers?

------
nichols
In related news, Larry Page now demands to be addressed as "Father Comstock"
when in the GooglePlex.

------
jmilkbal
In the areas where these blimps will be deployed, there almost certainly
hasn't been the same discussions of privacy, tracking, corporate abuse, data
breaches and perils of giving personal information out on the web nor the 20
years of background to go with it. You don't suppose Google will be educating
the future web users to protect themselves from Google, do you?

~~~
cloudwalking
Seems to me users would have access to the same Internet as you or me. They
will be able to read about these issues, just the same as we can.

~~~
Chronic24
Access to the same internet. Yes. But we were introduced to the internet when
Google wasn't "evil" as some people say it is today.

------
Kinnard
Africa will be bigger than both India and China combined. There are whole
cities waiting to be built. Check out the Solow growth model:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoclassical_growth_model>

~~~
khuey
The entire population of Africa is less than the population of India or China,
and far below the two of them combined.

~~~
Kinnard
That's the point. Massive growth is coming. Africa will round off the
population of the planet.

------
Apocryphon
Something for the sheep standing on Zanzibar to look up at.

~~~
jfb
Well, _I_ appreciate a good John Brunner callback.

------
jasonlgrimes
Now, if we could get them to feature NFL games :P

------
cloudwalking
Only Google...

------
nwzpaperman
Pretty sure google should deploy wifi blimps to south/north Dakota, Wyoming,
Montana, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, etc. before throwing
resources at African wifi.

I guess google plans to inherit Nigerian family fortunes and such and only
needs the coms infrastructure to obtain it.

~~~
SideburnsOfDoom
Downvoted because your comment consists of an unsubstantiated assertion
followed by a dismissive slur.

~~~
nwzpaperman
Assertion? Do explain your authority on Africa to me.

As someone who has family in Africa, right now, and more going within a month,
I am confident in my assertion that Africa is a failed continent.

Everyone on earth has tried to civilize, ahem, "bring online" Africa and
failed beyond resource extraction. It is a money pit and there are no rules.

There is significant precedence for failure if you open any history book. It
is arrogant to think you can influence anything meaningful there. Show some
humility and invest in your own back yard where you have a slightly higher
chance of making a meaningful impact.

~~~
SideburnsOfDoom
> Assertion? Do explain your authority on Africa to me. As someone who has
> family in Africa, right now...

If we're making comparisons of experience I lived in Africa for over 30 years.
But that's not relevant. Changing the subject from substance to authority is
not a good sign: appeal to authority is a logical fallacy for a reason.

But " I lived in Africa" is not right. Africa is big and diverse. Nobody lives
in a continent, they live in a city in a country, and statements like "Africa
is a failed continent" are too vague to even be wrong. They cannot be founded
in anything other than blind prejudice.

Large parts of Africa are developing rapidly (
[http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21572773-pride-
africas...](http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21572773-pride-africas-
achievements-should-be-coupled-determination-make-even-faster)
[http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/01/11/sorry_but_a...](http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/01/11/sorry_but_africa_s_rise_is_real)
[http://www.vice.com/read/is-this-the-century-of-africas-
rise...](http://www.vice.com/read/is-this-the-century-of-africas-rise-1)), and
technologies like this could help - not just help, could be profitable
commercial ventures.

> I am confident in my assertion

What I meant was, citation needed. More assertions of the same are not needed.

I couldn't care less if these blimps are deployed to Dakota, Wyoming, and
other parts of America as well. Maybe it makes economic sense for google to do
it there as well. But google has done the math and determined that it makes
sense to do this in parts of Africa, and for some strange reason they aren't
dissuaded by random afro-pessimist commenters on hn.

~~~
nwzpaperman
You don't know what you're talking about. What were you doing in Africa for 30
years...drinking on beaches in Cape Town??

Here is why it is COMPLETELY stupid to put wifi blimps in Africa. LOL

[http://www.heritage.org/multimedia/infographic/2012/10/manpa...](http://www.heritage.org/multimedia/infographic/2012/10/manpads-
attacks-in-africa)

~~~
SideburnsOfDoom
According to you, it shouldn't matter where I was in Africa since the whole
continent is "failed". If you now think that the blimps should be over the
beaches (and shanty-towns...) of Cape Town, but not the red dots in the
conflict zones, then you've changed your mind about that.

The nearest red dot looks like it's over 2000 km from Cape Town. Nothing
within 1000s of km of all of Nigeria. There are huge markets there. etc. etc.

