
Plans for an electric car charging point in every new home in Europe - Gravityloss
https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/oct/11/electric-car-charging-point-new-home-europe-renault
======
makomk
Hmmm. It's not like installing the charging points later is terribly difficult
or expensive compared to the cost of the cars themselves, so long as there's a
suitable garage or parking space. Are they outlawing new homes and home
refurbishments without garages or similar suitable for electric cars? That'd
be quite some subsidy for the car industry.

~~~
brudgers
Any jurisdiction that requires off street parking to be associated with
buildings (which is nearly universal in the US) could be said to be similarly
subsidizing the auto industry.

To me, the reason to consider requiring a car charging station is not really
related to cars but to the history of after the fact electrical installations
which to be safe must be done right and doing it right takes time (to hire
qualified installers) and money (to hire said installers and purchase
electrical gear) and that human nature is to avoid those things and install
systems that trade those costs for safety (fire and shock).

I look at it as parallel to requiring circuit breakers rather than fuses in
new residential construction and renovation. Fuses are really safe, safer than
circuit breakers in theory. In practice people substitute non-fusable objects
for fuses for convenience and cost savings. The work until they don't.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
>To me, the reason to consider requiring a car charging station is not really
related to cars but to the history of after the fact electrical installations
which to be safe must be done right and doing it right takes time (to hire
qualified installers) and money (to hire said installers and purchase
electrical gear) and that human nature is to avoid those things and install
systems that trade those costs for safety (fire and shock).

>I look at it as parallel to requiring circuit breakers rather than fuses in
new residential construction and renovation. Fuses are really safe, safer than
circuit breakers in theory. In practice people substitute non-fusable objects
for fuses for convenience and cost savings. The work until they don't.

I agree here. That said, in the US most homeowner electrical installations are
done 90% to code and the stuff people skip is stuff like supporting wires
individually and circuit planning often sucks.

In applications where you really care about not starting electrical fires
there's usually a combination breaker and fuse where the breaker setting is
conservative and the fuse is sized to burn up just before the wire does.

~~~
brudgers
90% to code is not to code. The parts that comply with code don't make
noncompliant parts safe. The parts that comply with code make other compliant
parts safe.

------
marklyon
Perhaps future regulations will require a dishwasher and a laundry machine in
all new or renovated homes?

------
ewr24
Does anyone have link to original sources?

Most houses in EU already have "charging point", it is called electric plug.
25A/380V plugs are pretty common:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_and_multiphase_powe...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_and_multiphase_power_plugs_and_sockets#Europe-
wide_IEC_60309_system)

But electric grids in western countries (Germany, UK) are absolutely not ready
for such thing. German power grid would collapse if Czechia and Poland started
enforcing their safety regulations.

This regulation would also make it impossible to build off-grid house powered
by solar.

~~~
DanBC
> 25A/380V plugs are pretty common

Not in homes.

~~~
skrause
At least in Germany _every_ single house or apartment has an electric
connection with a power output of at least 120A/380V (you're always connected
to all 3 phases). Hooking up an 25A/380V plug shouldn't be a big deal.

~~~
DanBC
But that's the point -- we know they have the capacity going into the houses,
they just don't currently have the actual connection.

> Hooking up an 25A/380V plug shouldn't be a big deal.

For a forum that's obsessed with A/B testing the colour of eg the signup
button it's odd to see people saying this. Of course it's not hard, but it is
friction, and people avoid friction. If we want people to take up electric
vehicles (and in the UK, particularly London, we really do to undo some of the
catastrophic decisions around promoting diesel) we want to make electric
vehicles easy to own.

------
grantlmiller
This seems shortsighted. We're on the verge of changing the car ownership
model with driverless cars & legislators are stuck creating laws that will
create an unnecessary burden in 5-8 years (yet they'll likely stay on the
books for decades). Ultimately it is central planning at its worst. A great
example of why decisions should be driven by the market, not "I know what's
best for everyone" politicians.

~~~
desas
Driverless cars to become standard in 5-8 years? I'd bet against that, never
mind the car ownership model.

------
tinita
Thoughts: 1\. Where will the energy come from? 2\. While electric cars will
make the air in cities better, they won't reduce the needed space (for driving
AND parking), and they won't make life more secure for pedestrians and
cyclists. 3\. In our courtyard, I usually don't find a place to lock my
bicycle because they removed some of the bicycle stands in favor of creating
some private terraces - this should be forbidden 4\. Please concentrate on
electric cars for car _sharing_

See also [http://www.copenhagenize.com/2016/10/electric-cars-where-
wil...](http://www.copenhagenize.com/2016/10/electric-cars-where-will-energy-
come.html)

------
tf2manu994
While this is a hell of a lot better than the current system of non-electric,
I feel that people owning their own car won't be a thing after cars are self
driving.

After they are, I think people will just call for a car and it would drive to
you and pick you up. Obviously this won't work for rural and off road areas,
though.

