
Large areas of London to be made car-free as lockdown eased - edward
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/15/large-areas-of-london-to-be-made-car-free-as-lockdown-eased
======
tazjin
Cautiously optimistic about this! I live in London and expected a swing
towards more cars as a result of this (which would be barely manageable).

However, there's one caveat here:

> Officials said they were working with boroughs to implement similar
> restrictions on the minor roads they manage within the area

Some boroughs (e.g. The City) have historically been very interested in
pedestrianising, but others (e.g. Westminster) have fought tooth and nail to
ensure that roads are cars-first.

I would expect them to put up a fight here, too, so this is probably far from
settled.

~~~
chosenbreed37
> Cautiously optimistic about this! I live in London and expected a swing
> towards more cars as a result of this (which would be barely manageable).

Mmm...in theory this sounds good. I wonder if the people that could/cycle
aren't already doing it. I have a number of colleagues who live in London.
However they're just too far away from the office to be able to cycle let
alone walk there. London's a big place. A lot of people use trains and buses
to get from the periphery to the centre. I'm not sure cycling or walking is an
option for them.

~~~
michaelt
_> I wonder if the people that could/cycle aren't already doing it._

I know plenty of people who are within cycling distance, but haven't chosen to
cycle because they prefer other options for transport and fitness.

Cycling comes with certain inconveniences that it takes a certain enthusiasm
to overcome. You have to own a bike you're happy to use. You have to be fit
enough for the distance you need to go. You have to plan out and learn a
route. You may have to be confident/experienced/macho enough to ride among
traffic and navigate big multi-lane junctions. You have to be willing to
shower and change at your destination, or not do so. You might need to buy
lights or bags or even different clothes. You have to be willing to get wet in
the rain. You may have to figure out how to store your bike at both ends.

I agree not everyone will be able to change to cycling, of course. Reading to
Paddington can be done in 30 minutes by train, but takes 4 hours by bike - and
some people have disabilities or other things that keep them from cycling. But
I'm confident there are plenty of people who can rise to the challenge despite
not having done so before.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
_Reading to Paddington can be done in 30 minutes by train, but takes 4 hours
by bike_

I don't think anybody is suggesting that, in fact I wonder why you even raised
it.

~~~
michaelt
Because I agree with chosenbreed37's point that some people are "just too far
away from the office to be able to cycle"

And if I'd chosen a non-ridiculous number for my example, someone would have
'corrected' me by telling me they cycle that far. I've met Londoners who have
a 2 hour cycle commute, by choice because they love cycling.

------
ckastner
The city of Vienna did this with their major shopping artery (Mariahilfer
Straße), despite an enormous amount of skepticsm. They closed off all traffic
in some parts, and most of all traffic in others (to allow for crucial
intersections). Where allowed, traffic is limited to a pedestrian tempo.

The experiment was a huge success. Commerce has never been busier. I don't
think that the drivers miss the roads, and the biggest skeptics -- the
shopowners! -- are the greatest benefactors now.

They're extending this concept to further areas now. Promote pedestrian, bike,
and public transportation traffic, reduce or eliminate everything else. It's
great.

~~~
pradn
These pedestrianization experiments seem to usually work, and I support them.
Does anyone know where they've failed?

~~~
iso-8859-1
IIRC, it failed in Durham, NC a couple of decades ago. According to the city
museum.

------
jeffbee
Hard to imagine people will accept a return to brown air and constant carnage.
Most living people have never seen air this clear, or experienced cities so
quiet.

~~~
martopix
The city being so quiet also means that a lot of people aren't there to
actually see it.

~~~
jeffbee
For American cities it means that people who live in the suburbs aren't
driving all over our city centers all day long. I don't know what it means for
London.

~~~
duxup
I think there is a yang to that yin in that without folks from the burbs
coming in, those city centers might not be what they are today after a
while...

Sometimes I wonder if folks worried about 'those people from the suburbs'
coming in would just result in cities being slightly more dense ... suburbs.

~~~
akgerber
People from the suburbs are great to have in the city if they're people. It's
just that their cars are deadly and a massive waste of public space. Rail
remains the best solution for this, as it will be again when we're on the
other side of this pandemic.

~~~
duxup
Yeah I'm all for giving folks as many efficient ways to get into a city.

I can't wait for a train to be built near me.

------
ruddct
Compare to NYC, which has no cohesive plan for people movement without public
transit.

It’s going to be a challenge to come out of this crisis in car-centric
American cities. Even a small mode-shift to private cars in somewhere like NYC
will cause insane gridlock, air pollution, and quality of life issues. Our
cultural dislike of walking and biking is going to make healthy recovery much
more difficult.

~~~
gipp
I know this is a drop in the bucket, but FWIW in Brooklyn I've been seeing
easily 3-4x the normal bike traffic, and bike shops consistently have long
lines outside all day, every day. I've personally bought an e-bike to commute
with once I can get back to the office. Hopefully this might be kind of a
hinge moment for bikes in the city? Or maybe it just snaps back to normal in a
couple months, who knows.

~~~
akgerber
Hopefully it will be a huge moment, but without safe bike infrastructure (of
which car-free or local-car-access-only areas are the best type) the traffic
that comes roaring back will scare many new cyclists away.

The city's failure to plan is resulting in many people buying cars — even
though it is physically impossible for everyone in central neighborhoods to
buy cars.

------
jessaustin
_It will take a monumental effort from all Londoners to maintain safe social
distancing on public transport as lockdown restrictions are gradually eased.
That means we have to keep the number of people using public transport as low
as possible._ \-- Mayor Khan

ISTM the way to make distancing possible on public transport is not to keep
people off transport, but to increase capacity. If the train runs every 30
seconds, you'll get quite a bit more breathing room than if it runs every five
minutes.

[EDIT:] I should have noted, since I've never been to UK this is more of a
general observation than a specific recommendation. Certainly most transit
systems in USA have the physical capacity, if not the operating budget, to run
much more often. Any bus system, however, could buy more buses, if social
distancing on transit were a priority. Perhaps I am too suspicious but when I
hear "don't ride the train" I translate that to "we're getting rid of the
train". Probably not happening in London but you could see it anywhere in USA.

~~~
lhopki01
This supposes there is capacity to increase frequency. For almost all lines in
London frequency was already at max. For example the Victoria line trains run
every 100s (it's actually harder to get faster than that) at peak times.
Despite this the line is always completely packed (often waiting a train or
two to get space) at peak times. Similarly on some routes it's a continous
line of busses so capacity can't be added there either. Additionally stations
that required lifts (elevators) can't increase capacity.

Now during Covid capacity was reduced but it's being ramped up again.

In London there is physically no way to physically distance people using
public transport. The only way it'll be achieved is to get everyone who can
walk or bike to work to do so. From my experience only a tiny fraction of the
number of people who could bike to work did so.

Now the offices are too small to physically distance people anyway so there
are issues there too.

~~~
chosenbreed37
Curious...if everyone is wearing a mask or equivalent does that not reduce or
eliminating the need for distancing...?

~~~
lhopki01
Wearing a mask reduces the risk of infecting others. Standing futher away also
reduces the risk. Together you achieve an even greater reduction. No one
measure is going to be the silver bullet.

Physical distance is also about more than just not breathing in other's air.
It also makes it easier to avoid touching the same surfaces too much. Have a
look the number of hands on the centre poll on a London underground train
during rush hour.

------
brenden2
Encouraging people to walk and bike, while also reducing pollution, is a great
way to reduce the effect of future health problems. Wish they'd do this in
NYC. You could close 30-50% of the streets, convert them into parks, and the
only negative impact would be that people have to walk an extra block to get a
cab.

------
acd
I hope it will be made permanent. As tourist I would like to visit car free
cities. For London residents clean air.

Modern large cities are incompatible with cars.

------
buboard
Easy to do that in the summer, but what happens come winter in a rainy city?

The future is in hybrid, low impact remote work, and minimal city traffic.
Mass transit and traffic jams belong to the industrial era, should have been
abandoned long ago

------
martopix
Milan is also planning to work on bike lanes at this time (it's very bad for
biking as of now)

------
jankotek
> It will take a monumental effort from all Londoners to maintain safe social
> distancing on public transport

This is why we need work from home. Banning cars and forcing public transport
is not going to fix the problem!

~~~
ch4s3
They’re talking about a part of London where many people walk to work anyway.
This just gives them more space and eases crowding on sidewalks. Also, not
every job can be done from home.

~~~
C1sc0cat
Walk to work after getting off crowded busses tubes and trains

