

How To Get Your Own Fanboys - mqt
http://mattmaroon.com/?p=360

======
alex_c
A long rant about why Apple has a fanatical following, and the word "design"
is only mentioned once?

Good design is strangely lacking in the tech industry. Sony has it
(sometimes). In the mp3 player area, IRiver had it (briefly), but it wasn't
enough. When looking for a laptop recently, I was dismayed at how plain bad
most Windows laptops look (for the record, I ended up choosing between a Dell
and a Sony, and went with the Sony because I didn't want to wait 2 weeks).
Microsoft is a consistent case study of how NOT to do design. Whatever else
Apple might do wrong, design isn't one of them.

Let me put it another way. If the auto world only gave you two choices - '88
Ford Taurus knock-offs and Lexus - I'm willing to bet Lexus owners would be a
lot more fanatical.

~~~
mattmaroon
Perhaps. I just think that design is the reason most people would attribute it
to, and it's certainly a part, but it's only a part. There's clearly more to
it than that, because lots of industries have only one company with good
aesthetic sense, yet almost none have fanboys.

Agreed on iRiver. Their players were so much better than Apple's for one or
two generations, and then they degraded rapidly. I can't imagine what went
wrong there.

~~~
vlad
<http://gear.ign.com/articles/306/306414p1.html>

~~~
mattmaroon
Wow, does that take me back. I had the original Diamond Rio back in the day
(though the second, 64mb generation) which I bought from Best Buy for $300. I
remember how freaking happy I was with it too. What was that, 1998? 99?

I soooooooo wish I hadn't sold that on eBay.

------
axod
"Their products, to some significant percentage of their user base, aren’t
just computers or phones, they’re a lifestyle. Insult the operating system and
you insult the owner."

This is pretty offensive. _IF_ (and that is a very big if), any other
manufacturer came out with a phone that had a usable web browser, a laptop
that didn't suck, or a decent mp3 player, then I'd buy them. No question.

People really don't just blindly buy Apple stuff because it's Apple. I
couldn't care less if it's Apple or not. People buy MacBooks, iPods and
iPhones, because they are unquestionably the market leaders. They are the
absolute best by miles in those 3 areas.

If you think there is a better phone/pocket computer than the iPhone you
really have to be kidding. Same with the iPod and MacBook.

~~~
apotheon
Why is it offensive? Are you a "fanboy", or are you just a Mac user? If the
former, maybe you have a point -- maybe. On the other hand, I think you're
probably just unaware of your hangups, considering that from what I've seen of
Mac fanboys that commentary was on-target. If you're just a Mac user, on the
other hand, the statement doesn't apply to you.

As for the iPhone . . . there may not be a better "smartphone" available right
now, but I'm holding out for one anyway. There are just too many usability
design flaws with the iPhone (and its competitors) for me to jump into
smartphones yet.

~~~
axod
Calling people fanboys is saying they are lying. That's why it's offensive.

I just use whatever product happens to work the best. Don't care what brand it
is.

I agree, I expect the smartphone market to heat up quite a bit now, it'll be
interesting to see who can match the iPhone.

~~~
apotheon
_Calling people fanboys is saying they are lying. That's why it's offensive._

Only to themselves. If they were lying to others, they'd be shills -- not
fanboys.

Also . . . I don't think he was calling all Apple users "fanboys". He was just
pointing out that there are a lot of Apple fanboys, and discussing their
culture. You don't have to be an Apple fanboy to use Apple products, though.
If you truly just use whatever happens to work best for you, and that happens
to be Apple products in some cases, that doesn't make you a fanboy.

------
axod
This is just wrong and boring. For me, in a nutshell, Apple have extremely
good taste. They make very well thought out products.

I first used an Apple 1 1/2 years ago. Before then I'd just assumed they were
a load of hype.

Out of all the laptops I've had, (Toshiba, IBM, Sony, Dell, MacBook), the
Macbook wins absolutely in terms of design, build quality, and functionality.
The others aren't even close. It's a boolean for me... Macbook wins, all the
others completely fail. Perhaps this is why you dismiss people like myself as
fanboys. But there really is that much of a gap between apple and the rest.

MacBooks are just simple. Nicely designed functional objects. When you then
look at a Dell or IBM etc, they are a mess. With grills here, extra buttons
here, some ports on the front, some on the side, weird slopes here, it's like
the design was an afterthought.

Just a shame I didn't try Apple sooner.

It's the same with the iPhone. Name _one_ other phone that has a usable web
browser, and brilliantly thought out keyboard.

It's not fanboyism, it's just common sense.

~~~
jrockway
_They make very well thought out products._

With bugs. One thing Apple does consistently is release buggy Rev. A products.
Every. Single. Time. It's almost like they _try_ to do it.

 _Out of all the laptops I've had, (Toshiba, IBM, Sony, Dell, MacBook), the
Macbook wins absolutely in terms of design, build quality, and functionality._

In terms of hardware, they're all the same designs from Intel. Apple uses
prettier build materials (metal); but Thinkpads are a lot more solid.
(Drainage holes under the keyboard, huge hinge connecting the screen to the
base, easy to open up to add things, every screw has a part number for easy
ordering, etc.)

In the end, I think people like Apple because Apple likes themselves so much.
It's very easy to get excited about something when you see other people doing
it. When Apple launches a product, it's a work of art. When Lenovo releases a
new Thinkpad... it's really fucking boring. "Yay, it looks exactly like last
year's model!" That doesn't mean it's not a good computer, though... it just
means Apple markets to the ignorant better. There is quite a large market of
people that don't know anything :)

Finally, yeah the iPhone and OS X are kind of nice. Unfortunately Apple likes
to add cool features to their OS and then cripple them for The Media
Companies; the same goes for the iPhone. When I buy something, I want it to
work for me, not whoever is paying Apple this week.

So I use Linux on a Thinkpad, and think about what I _do_ with my computer
instead of what it looks like.

~~~
m0nty
"With bugs. One thing Apple does consistently is release buggy Rev. A
products. Every. Single. Time. It's almost like they try to do it."

Yea, you could never accuse Microsoft and the PC vendors of sloppy work like
that.

~~~
apotheon
Did you happen to notice that jrockway doesn't use MS Windows? Perhaps you
should read the last line of jrockway's post before insinuating hypocrisy with
a reference to Microsoft.

~~~
m0nty
Please, get over yourself.

~~~
apotheon
Myself . . . ? I'm not jrockway.

~~~
m0nty
Just to spell it out a bit: to criticise Microsoft or PC vendors is hardly the
same as criticising whoever jrockway is. It certainly doesn't imply he's a
hypocrite, since I don't know him/her and cannot, therefore, comment on their
morals or integrity. It was merely a flip comment pointing out that yes, Apple
do indeed release imperfect products, but so do dozens of other companies and
basically we see it as not such a big deal.

Even if I were criticising jrockway as a person, why on earth would you GAS?
I'm sure he/she is quite capable of repudiating me him/herself if it were
necessary. Fortunately, he/she probably has the good sense to see my offhand
comment for what it was: just an offhand comment, not a personal criticism.

------
andreyf
I think it's easier than that. Just make consistently superior products, with
a consistent, recognizable brand design, and charge 2x for them. Good examples
are A&F, BMW, and Starbucks.

You are right to point out that religion and sports are related - they are
also examples of a kind of "brand identity", based in our tribal instincts.

~~~
mattmaroon
You know, I think I have to grant you that on BMW. They've got some
fanboyishness going on too. Not sure as much about the other two. (Starbucks
has a number of haters exceeded only by Wal-Mart).

~~~
andreyf
On second though, you're right, Starbucks was a bad pick...

My general intuition is that Apple seems so unique because we're tech-oriented
and mostly surrounded by techno-centric people. If we were into fashion,
coffee, or cars, there would be other companies which would seem just as fan-
boy-ish. It's hard for me to pick companies, because I don't know the first
thing about fashion, coffee, or cars :)

~~~
apotheon
No, you were right to pick Starbucks on the strength of its fanboyish
customers. The fact that it attracts haters as much as fanboys doesn't change
the fact that it has a lot of fans.

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indiejade
Good read. My take would be that Apple is like Nike. In grad school, one of my
professors said that Nike isn't actually in the business of making shoes; it's
in the business of marketing. Makes sense. Advertising and celebrity athlete
endorsements don't really add any _value_ to a pair of sneakers, but paying a
celebrity athlete millions of dollars for their endorsement certainly adds to
the cost, and ultimately the _price_ , of the final product.

Quote: ". . . if they’re lucky maybe one day they’ll graduate into paying
double for their computers."

Interesting commentary about "the club." Indeed does it seem that Apple
packages and target-markets in such a way that those who are lulled into
paying the premium for the "final product" ultimately end up doing so in order
to be part of it (as in "the club").

Then, of course, are there those who are just too poor to pay membership dues
to the iCool club.

Also are there those of us who maybe can, but don't necessarily _want_ to pay
double for the branded plastic, given the fact that hardware is cheap and
operating systems can be free. Even legally free. I think a bunch of us use
Linux, or some open-source variation thereof.

------
Hexstream
"Filed Under Uncategorized".

That makes _so_ much sense! But I think it would be even more dramatic to
rename the Uncategorized "category" to "Unfiled".

"Filed under Unfiled."

Poison for the non-technical mind.

~~~
mattmaroon
That is funny. In my defense, I think that's Wordpress's default. My theme
generates the "filed under".

~~~
apotheon
You can edit that, y'know.

------
pistoriusp
A year ago my laptop was due for an upgrade, so I got myself a 2nd hand
MacBook Pro. I had never used a Mac, and had been using FreeBSD as a
development OS and sometimes a Windows machine when I wanted to play games.

I can honestly say that I was not a Apple fanboy. Sure, I liked the way their
things looked, but a fanboy? No.

A year after owning a Mac... I would never want to go back to a PC. It's
simply the best OS that I've ever used.

So, how did Apple get me to love their product?

Their products look nice. That makes me want to use them and bring them into
my "space." It's the same reason I consider buying anything: shoes, clothes,
cars, chairs, anything.

Once I started using their OS it was a pleasant and consistent experience.

------
rp
Apple fans have always been fervent even during the very long period where the
computers very obviously underpowered and overpriced. Apple was putting out
040-based computers at high prices when the PC industry was knee-deep in
comparatively cheap Pentium systems. It was only until the Power PC came along
that Apple started to release systems where the hardware was hefty enough to
match the quality of the interface. I also challenge anybody to argue that the
OS, as opposed to interface, was anything but creaky for many years. OS 10
(not OS X) was garbage.

------
aston
If Apple's marketing relies so heavily on it being a niche, exclusive club
rather than the market leader/product of the common man, how do you explain
the iPod?

~~~
mattmaroon
I think they just applied the same marketing there and nobody ever challenged
them on it after they achieved ubiquity. That's why I think they're vulnerable
to their own tactics there.

~~~
aston
Maybe so. The Zune marketing is an interesting case study, since it's in a lot
of ways very un-Microsoft. They've tried their best to hit the hipsters with
the campaign: launch parties at Stussy stores, commercials featuring trippy
video sequences and a song from the Shins, customized engravings from various
artists, and a general "too-cool-for-school" vibe. And it's not worked very
much at all. Maybe because it's too late?

~~~
apotheon
Maybe the fact that the "trippy video sequences" are pointless and lame, and
the fact that the "song from the Shins" is awful, has something to do with it.

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greendestiny
If you want fanboys make sure your product confers social status. Concentrate
on aesthetics and make sure you're almost always more expensive than the
competition. Good aesthetics make your product desirable, an expensive price
point means your product will keep its social status.

~~~
mattmaroon
Still, I feel like there are a lot of companies that do this and still don't
get fanboys. Maybe they just don't do it well enough.

~~~
greendestiny
Yeah I don't think its necessarily easy. Other people have to know that the
product you're buying is 'impressive' for it confer some status. Its also
about building a brand identity that people want to associate themselves with.
So Apple spends a lot of money making sure people know they are the cool
Californian company.

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vlad
I believe I have the computer you recommended, a work T61, and a Macbook Pro.
The keyboard on the MacBook Pro is much better, surprisingly. The idea to use
a backlit keyboard is incredibly thoughtful. The screen is much, much better
than the one on a T61. The operating system is much better and simpler, with
not a single picture or theme of a blue sky that I know of. The T61 wins in...
looking Windowish.

In this case, both Windows XP and Vista computers look as unrefined and
ancient right now as old Apple computers with 5.25" drives do. When I think of
Windows I think of those documentaries about the Silicon Valley from the late
90's.

~~~
mattmaroon
If you're talking about me, I recommend the X series, not so much the T.
You're right about the backlit keyboard, it is one great feature of the MBP.

------
edw519
How to get your own fanboys? Get 'em while they're young. If you're any good,
they won't switch.

Apple has targeted schools for 30 years. I'd say it's worked.

~~~
wumi
which is why they have a small percentage of the market?

~~~
pg
They have a small market share now because their market share shrank to tiny
under the bumbling CEOs before Jobs returned. Their market share is growing
fast, but tiny x fast growth = small. Wait a few more years.

~~~
wumi
understood , I just thought it was a very over-generalized comment by stating
"they've targeted schools for 30 years and it's worked," when from all
appearances, has been decently for the last 10

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ssharp
I don't care that much about how the computer looks, just don't make it
ridiculously bulky and keep the lines clean. Although even with such basic
concepts, most competitors attempts at duplicating Apple style end up looking
ridiculous. There is elegance in simplicity that most people don't understand,
yet in many industries the design leader is the one that keeps things simple
and clean.

However, I use Macs because of the O/S. I would definitely buy non-Apple
hardware if it would run OSX without hacks but you can't.

Microsoft pretty much summed up where they are in innovation and design with
the Zune. They are a giant but unless they can turn things around and actually
start making devices that people WANT instead of making cheap products with a
recognizable name, then they're going to end up more like Ford than Toyota.

They also have a real jackass of a CEO.

------
lg
the obsessive "apple fanboys" i know don't know much about technology. so i'd
say it's half good products, and half marketing. apple's the only company that
creates a personification of their product as a marketing tool. it's a great
trick because anyone who identifies with the persona burns apple into their
souls, but it's uncommon because you can turn a lot of people off that way.
most companies don't do this at all, or pick something inoffensive or only
remotely human (geico uses a _lizard_ ). obviously nobody identifies with
generic friendly people or lizards. but some people do identify with justin
long, god help them, so apple gets a small but devoted clan who loves it
because it "just gets who they are." that said, apple's probably betting that
rates of justin-long-ness are trending upwards.

on a side note, bud select is great.

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ssharp
What areas have intense fanboys and hateboys?

Video games & computers. You don't need to look any further then at the demos.

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axod
Another pointless troll post. Takes trolling to a completely new level.

