
Bitcoin and almost every other cryptocurrency crashed hard today - mutteraloo
https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/22/bitcoin-crypto-crashed-hard/
======
cocktailpeanuts
As someone who owns and believes in cryptocurrency, I'm actually glad this
happened. I was getting sick of all the get rich quick people who've been
driving the price lately, even for the coins that shouldn't be pumping.

It was almost as if the entire cryptocurrency space had turned into a huge
unregulated casino.

I was at a couple of Bitcoin meetups recently and was surprised to find that
most attendees were proudly saying that it doesn't matter if they understand
how the technology works. It's one thing to not understand what you're
gambling with, it's a whole another matter if everyone is actually proud about
their very ignorance and even thinks of their ignorance (yet I'm still making
money!) as being clever.

Unlike what some people pointed out in this thread, the price going down is
not from people who got rich quick and sold. It's a panic sell.

That's what happens when you gamble with something you don't understand.

~~~
aviv
Just FYI and very anecdotal, I know a guy who was confronted in the parking
lot after a bitcoin meetup by 2 guys demanding that he send some coins to
their wallet. Be careful at those meetups.

~~~
ohquu
Well, what did he do?

~~~
aviv
2nd amendment my friend. Note to criminals: don't try this in Arizona.

~~~
dsacco
Your friend shot them?

~~~
aviv
Luckily for them it didn't have to go that far, but he did pull it and they
immediately took off. He then got in his car and called the police to report
what happened.

~~~
rhexs
So he brandished a weapon when his life wasn't in danger? Isn't that illegal?

~~~
aviv
His life was most definitely in danger.

~~~
dwild
There seems to be missing something in your story to show danger.

They just asked for his cash, nothing show any sign in danger in that. Would
you pull out a gun because someone asked you for food too?

Was there a threat? Which kind of threat? Did it look like these guys had the
means to carry that threat and did it look like they actually were going to
carry that threat?

I wouldn't kill a guy in hope to get a few thousand dollars. There are cars
that are worth much more than I could steal and risk much less than a homicide
sentence (which I guess is pretty high in Arizona).

I don't believe his life was in danger, but I'm also not living in a country
where people think their life is constantly in danger and they have to carry
gun for their safety. That mentality is dangerous in itself and may justify
itself sadly. Having a gun in any interaction escalate way too quickly any
risk.

~~~
Cyberdog
> They just asked for his cash, nothing show any sign in danger in that.

Yeah, that's all they said. I'm sure there was no threat in their words or
mannerisms at all. Certainly, if the victim had merely given these gentlemen a
firm "no," they would have just shrugged their shoulders and walked away.

------
htormey
I do mobile software consulting. To give you an idea of the level of crypto
currency mania: Every single one of my clients in San Francisco have some kind
of slack or group chat devoted to crypto trading.

I was waiting at the front desk of a client who has a floor in a fancy
building downtown. Whilst waiting I overheard the end of a conversation
between the door guy talking to the maintanence man: “I put in a bunch of
money like you said and it went up!”. The door guy was gesturing at his phone
and I vaguely saw a blue and white interface that looked like coinbase. I’m
95% sure this conversation was about bitcoin or etherium. This occurred about
two weeks ago.

It really made me think of that old story about the shoe shine boy talking
stocks promoting a guy to exit the stock market prior to the 1929 crash:

[http://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive...](http://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1996/04/15/211503/index.htm)

~~~
mutteraloo
They didn't know what they were buying; bits in a database. A very poorly
implemented database that was

\- not scalable

\- not rare

\- didn't have any government backing or big institutional backing in case the
price dropped from 19,000 to 11,000

\- easily hackable (tether, fake trades, scam exchanges, etc)

\- too expensive to do a single transaction

this applies to most crytocurrency

~~~
tanilama
> not rare

Interesting. Don't really know how crytos work, but isn't rarity is guaranteed
by the BitCoin algorithm itself?

~~~
dithering
Algorithm is defined by consensus. Changing the algorithm just means gaining
consensus amongst the miners.

"Would you like to continue printing free money?" sounds like an easy sell to
me.

~~~
Robotbeat
You know what? That's a good point, and a problem with the Bitcoin end game.
As Bitcoin mining gets harder and more of the value ends up entirely in the
already-mined BTC, those with all this mining infrastructure are going to
realize they can maximize this otherwise-stranded-asset by monopolizing mining
power and developing a consensus to allow them to continue printing money.

"But transaction fees!" Okay, but if transaction fees go way up, that will
encourage people to move away from BTC anyway or find some other way to reduce
their exposure to transaction fees.

Once mining draws to a close, miners will consolidate. Just like in every
other industry after a bust.

Cryptocurrencies are still, of course, very interesting and powerful.

~~~
dithering
Of course it's a good point, it's one of mine ;)

My expectation is we'll end up with "to avoid a hard cliff between a network
reliant on mining and one reliant on transaction fees (and the inevitable
instability of the transition), and to ensure a robust mining ecosystem, we're
going to extend mining, at a reduced rate, for just a few more months..."

And there's an apparent benefit for end-users, too - if you want Bitcoin to be
a practical payments mechanism (as opposed to store of value), transaction
fees have to be kept comparable to credit cards. But the electricity used by
the network still has to be paid for. What could be more tempting than
magicing a few more bitcoin out of thin air to pay the miners?

------
IkmoIkmo
There's essentially nothing driving the price increase in 2017. Payment
processing, remittance, asset-backing, digital identities, micropayments,
bitcoin ATMs, VC-backed bitcoin startups, none of these things took off at all
in 2017, in fact if anything the exciting years regarding these
usecases/infrastructure ventures were 2013-2015.

I bet if you ask 100 people why they bought and if they use bitcoin for
anything in particular, 99 will say no. That's why none of this is a real
surprise.

On the other hand, apart from appreciation of gold as jewellery (partially
because it's expensive) and some industrial use (fraction of the gold
industry), in large part gold too exhibits price growth sustained by nothing
but a simple cultural notion that it's scarce and valuable. Countries, banks,
pension funds etc aren't putting hundreds of billions of dollars worth into
stacks of gold bars locked in vaults because of their industrial or jewellery
usage, after all. Bitcoin, as little the growth of real-life usecases has been
in 2017, may have established itself as an alternative store of value. I don't
agree with that myself (just as like I think it's utterly useless to invest in
gold as a store of value), but who cares about me.

So it remains to be seen what'll happen the next ten years, maybe it'll still
remain as a store of value. I'm no longer buying though. The 'using bitcoin'
vs 'bitcoin as store of value' became completely lopsided in favour of the
latter, which was the point I cashed out.

~~~
monocasa
And a big piece of gold's value is that it's been a store of value for longer
than recorded history.

Hell, if the world went belly up, Mad Max style, there's a good chance that
whatever gold you have would be worth even more.

~~~
jcranmer
Serious question: what value would gold have in a post-apocalyptic world? If
I'm selling something, why should I take gold in exchange for it, instead of
something useful, like ammunition or food or water?

~~~
agarden
If I were convinced the apocalypse were going to happen in the next couple
years, I would start storing up ramen noodles, Hersheys chocolate bars, and
M&Ms. Cheap to purchase, easy to store, and likely to have astronomic value
post-apocalypse.

~~~
matte_black
Those items have little to no nutritional value. I recommend rice and beans
instead.

~~~
agarden
That would be rational. I am assuming that even in a post-apocalyptic
scenario, people will not be rational. I imagine people being willing to pay
an awful lot for the experience of tasting M&Ms again and for a few brief
moments being able to pretend that everything is just like it used to be.

Though now that you point it out, maybe I would rather buy rice and beans so
that I could be more useful to people, rather than just maximizing profit. Or
better yet, stock up on both kinds of goods.

------
gressquel
Downvote me all you want, but HN really needs to cure this bitcoin-jealousy.
Yes, people who invested early became millionares and billionares with a
single mouse click. I know it feels unfair when you spend countless hours
creating and innovating and not being rewarded. But some of you here needs to
stop hating and being bitter. I have been watching HN and bitcoin related
threads for months now. Same pattern.

~~~
djsumdog
Who is buying coin? Like if you seriously found 3 BTC you had on an old hard
drive from years ago, remembered that password, who would pay you the $30k?
You'd have to try different exchanges, try small amounts first, pay the insane
transaction fees and wait for confirmation. Anyone who truly had a huge stash
of like 400k USD in BTC would need to grab a lawyer, an escrow company and
enter into a pretty strict legal contract with a coin exchange to guarantee
that money.

Are there really large amounts being traded? I guess you could just look at
the block chain ledger and see. But I'm just wondering how much of this is due
to people cashing in/out vs market manipulation.

~~~
sowbug
Your numbers are off by more than a factor of 1,000. As of a couple days ago,
you could liquidate $30M (not $30K) on GDAX with a market sell order (which
would be the worst possible way to sell) for more than 95% of last-quoted
price.

~~~
SippinLean
What would be a better way to sell?

~~~
lifty
An over the counter(OTC) trade with a firm that specialises in high worth
trades. They quote you a mid market price and they fill your whole amount at
the same price.

------
cs702
What we're seeing right now is a _shakeout_ of all those unsophisticated
individuals who have been purchasing crytocurrencies in growing numbers,
mostly without understanding them, and in many cases with borrowed money and
even by taking out home mortgages.[a] Those unsophisticated buyers are the
ones who pushed the price of Bitcoin from ~$1000 at the beginning of the year
to $18000+ a couple of weeks ago.[b] Now they're surely wondering what the
heck is happening to them.

The question is: _who is buying?_ Remember, for every sale there is a purchase
on the other side of the transaction. Trading volumes have grown from around
US $2B/day at the beginning of the year to $20B/day right now, excluding
Futures volume, which means that there are people or firms buying $20B/day of
Bitcoin in the face of a substantial price decline.[c] Who are these buyers?

[a] [https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/11/people-are-taking-out-
mortga...](https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/11/people-are-taking-out-mortgages-to-
buy-bitcoin-says-joseph-borg.html)

[b] [https://www.coinbase.com/charts](https://www.coinbase.com/charts)

[c]
[https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/)

~~~
aviv
My theory is still Saudi Arabia. The government as well as individuals fearing
further confiscation of their assets.

~~~
cs702
It could also be Goldman:

[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-21/goldman-i...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-21/goldman-
is-said-to-be-building-a-cryptocurrency-trading-desk)

~~~
aviv
Exactly. No surprise they set up shop there. Two way street is now open.

[https://www.reuters.com/article/us-goldman-sachs-
saudi/goldm...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-goldman-sachs-
saudi/goldman-sachs-gets-approval-for-saudi-equities-trading-license-
idUSKCN1B00GP)

------
vinchuco
It's almost like everyone was trying to get rich quick and sold when they saw
some profit.

~~~
wheelie_boy
Agreed, it's almost like the asset has no fundamental value, and is driven
completely by speculation.

~~~
laythea
I am struggling to understand what currency you would define fundamental value
- Loafs of bread?

~~~
Cthulhu_
Things you can walk to a shop to and buy things with. Things employers will
pay you for. Things that are backed by a government and guaranteed by a
national bank. Things that are protected by laws and monitored to prevent
large value shifts. Things that can be transferred in many transactions (like,
more than four per second) Things that don't need the energy production /
consumption of a small country just to function.

Cryptocurrencies can have all that, but they need to have a high transaction
volume (tens of thousands / second), regulation, protected / monitored
exchange value, etc. Which defeats the original purpose of an "open source",
unregulated currency.

But you get what you ask for.

~~~
lloyd-christmas
The cowry was used as an international currency for thousands of years and
wasn't backed by any government. All it was was seashells that were a limited
supply resource. In major usage, it was used all the way from Africa to
Hawaii. I think most people look at currencies with an incredibly narrow view
of history.

^ Worth noting, that this is relatively modern history. It's usage stopped as
a currency in the mid 20th century. At the beginning of the 20th century, some
african countries still accepted it _as taxes_

------
increment_i
Looks like people have already started buying the dip.

I've found the recent discussions around BTC and cryptocoins on this forum
incredibly illuminating, from both the bulls and the bears.

I'm beginning to think perhaps there's no point in discussing the fundamental
financial flaws of cryptos, or their lack of inherent value. I'm beginning to
think their main utility in is meeting a human need that's existed since
antiquity - the need to gamble.

As long as a solvent exchange remains, and another ready to come along when it
fails, there will always be large numbers of folks entering the casino.

Perhaps the only thing that can stop it now is strict government regulation.

~~~
mrhappyunhappy
Most people here seem to be completely oblivious to the movement behind
Bitcoin and what it means for the world as the antiquated financial systems
are replaced with people in control of their own money. The fact that everyone
is so fixated on price shows the lack of imagination and forward thinking
about what is coming. You call it gambling, we call it being ahead of the
curve when the rest of the world only wakes up. I've come to believe the HN
crowd for the most part cannot comprehend what is about to happen to our
financial, political and technological world. Entire industries are being
revamped while the hackerpeneur is blinded by Bitcoin fog. You are correct,
there is no point in telling a banker he is about to be unemployed.

~~~
chii
The state will never let its power to control its currency go.

if (or when) Bitcoins become so ubiquitous that it poses a threat, it will
just be out outlawed in a way that still protects Fiat.

------
stevenmays
Still crashing. Down to 11k. ::grabs popcorn::
[https://www.gdax.com/trade/BTC-USD](https://www.gdax.com/trade/BTC-USD)

~~~
navaati
Wow, this interface is very cool, very useful to explain how markets/pricing
work !

Maybe (probably) it's some pretty standard way of displaying things but I had
never seen one like this.

~~~
chillydawg
It's a fairly standard order book view, with a nice log of trades on the right
hand side. For most real exchanges (eg ones trading shares or commodities),
this view would be impossible without some kind of downsampling as there would
be too many trades/sec to display in real time. Your monitor probably isn't
fast enough, let alone your browser rendering stack.

~~~
navaati
Oh the log is cool but I was more specifically referring to the order book
with the spread, and the "green on the left, red on the right" view in the
middle that shows the market.

I would like to see such a view for regular stock markets but I don't know
where to go. The stock exchange interface of my bank, for example, is far from
showing such a nice thing, only a bare order book with only a few lines.

~~~
flgr
I found TradingView to be very good. I.e.
[https://www.tradingview.com/chart/?symbol=BITSTAMP:BTCUSD](https://www.tradingview.com/chart/?symbol=BITSTAMP:BTCUSD)

They also have regular stock symbols.

------
solotronics
Buying on the way down, see you all on the upswing in about a year. I bought
after the MtGox crash in 2013 and can't wait to buy this bear market!

~~~
bsaul
What do you consider a "bottom" price for bitcoin ? or a "high" price ?

This thing has no possible valuation, because it has no utility, no intrinsic
value. The whole thing is just crazy.

~~~
55555
> it has no utility

People buy drugs with it. People evade tax with it. People evade currency
controls with it.

When will people stop making this crazy false claim?

~~~
bsaul
Yes, illegal activities, you're right. But betting on something as famous and
easily accessible keeping evading law for a long time is a risky bet.

As for "Evading currency control" it doesn't mean anything for individual, i'm
sorry (unless you're an autonomous region trying to get rid of central bank
policy, but i don't think any has adopted bitcoin yet)

~~~
fragmede
It's risky and I wouldn't recommend betting on it, but file sharing and drugs
haven't gone away, despite the government fighting them for many years. The
exact mechanism for trading bits over the Internet that other people don't
want you to has evolved since the days of Napster, but music and video for
free over the Internet are more accessible than ever. The other example is the
War on Drugs, and we're right in the middle of an opiate epidemic, so you tell
me how well that's going.

Bitcoin is backed - by the opposite of the government - the DEA keeps
cannabis, cocaine, and heroin illegal, which means that Bitcoin is actually
useful for moving money around for drug dealers and terrorists; anyone who
can't use the mainstream banking system due to prohibition by the US
government. (North Korea is another example of who's not allowed to bank.)

However, this does not let us calculate how much a Bitcoin _should_ be worth,
it only allows us to say that there is actually a use for Bitcoin, and it's
not _purely_ speculation.

------
jaywunder
Serious question: who didn't expect this? Did anybody think that the 19K high
of last week was going to be the new normal?

~~~
buttcoinslol
I wanted to short bitcoin, I predicted a price correction of -50% after the
CBOE and CME futures came online, and well, here we are. Unfortunately I can't
post 200% margin even on a 20k contract :(

edit: The futures markets may not have even been the catalyst for this drop,
more likely it's this: "The market has also been artificially pumped up by
Bitfinex and their money printing machine Tether."

~~~
52-6F-62
I've been looking into it after hearing a few thoughts this morning. I think
its even more likely that:

The timing of increased volumes and the beginning of bulk selloffs times
pretty closely with the announcement of a large hack in South Korea — and
exchange called Youbit. They've completely shut down. South Korea is a huge
market.

[https://themerkle.com/youbit-hacked-again-closes-its-
doors/](https://themerkle.com/youbit-hacked-again-closes-its-doors/)

[https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/historical-
data...](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/historical-data/)

> The South Korean National Intelligence service believes that North Korean
> hackers were behind that attack, as well as a separate hacking of South
> Korea’s largest exchange, Bithumb, back in February. The Korean Internet and
> Security Agency is currently investigating Youbit’s most recent attack.

~~~
buttcoinslol
Interesting, thanks for the info. 24 hours later, the priced has recovered 33%
from the 12k low to 16k.

~~~
52-6F-62
It was a weird little run

------
carrja99
Duh, this was coming for some time. The market has also been artificially
pumped up by Bitfinex and their money printing machine Tether.

Expect some massive fraud investigations in the coming days. A lot of people
are going to lose a lot of money.

------
gchokov
Crash and burn. Much more to come. When even my friends who haven't touched a
computer ask me how to buy it..

------
b111coins
I used to ask others in last few months, at what point would you be
comfortable buying?

Is it 20K, 15K, 10K, 5K, 1K, 500$, 100$, or 50$? or less?

See, the story changes, what was nice months ago now is an extremely high
risk.

Myself, I probably woudln't buy unless it's under 100$. Even that is
questionable. Reason being, blockchain is a pipedream and BTC is a dinosaur
within that dream. What future BTC has but speculation?

~~~
nugi
Why does price of a bitcoin matter? You can buy the equivalent of $50usd in
bitcoin, and enjoy many if not all of the 'opprotunities'.

~~~
amenod
This. Who cares if it's $100, $10000 or $0.10? What matters is the price it
_will_ have, and yes, that is all just speculation, unless you have a crystal
ball that actually works.

What is great/weird/... (select according to your opinion) is that the gains
were huge in the last year.

------
ajmurmann
While cryptocurrencies price is clearly decoupled from any real work value.
However, I'm really can't imagine what a realistic endgame will look like.
Even if the bubble pops completely and Bitcoin goes to below $100, I am
somewhat certain that the game will restart. There are enough believers to
keep this going as a Ponzi scheme machine till the technology has matured
enough and it's actually useful. If not that I expect it to longer around as
some shady, mostly illegal gambling thing.

------
swiftting
“Be Fearful When Others Are Greedy and Greedy When others are fearful”

-Warren Buffet

------
danvoell
I blame Bitcoin Cash. But to put things in perspective, the crash wiped out
like three weeks of gains. So this is just a counter part to the Bitcoin going
through the roof article.

~~~
explorigin
BCH is the catalyst but not the direct cause. It's commonly agreed that BTC
price was a bubble. Bubbles need an event to pop them. Coinbase opening
support for BCH was that event.

~~~
YCode
I like the term "correction", in that it's not over for bitcoin it's just now
it's getting a more realistic value.

------
swlkr
You can call it a crash but bitcoin still up 1000% this year...

~~~
oelmekki
Usually, what people call "crash" are just corrections happening very fast. I
think this one qualifies.

------
joshvm
This is why you buy over time, and not in one go (dollar cost averaging). Your
gains are lower than if you coincidentally managed to buy at the bottom, but
you won't be affected nearly as hard as if you put all your money in at the
top.

Does this suggest that people are dumping to fiat, rather than other coins?
There was speculation that the reason Ripple shot up recently was because
people were buying it with Bitcoin, however virtually everything is down at
the moment.

~~~
deegles
Only if the fees are low.

~~~
MuffinFlavored
Only if you like catching a falling knife and holding a bag. :)

------
24gttghh
Ha! I needed a good laugh this morning. Thanks internet.

What I don't get, is _how do these prices actually change?_ For btc or a
stock. The mechanism seems very voodoo.

~~~
Wh1zz
If the last traded price was 20k, then that's the price. If you have some btc
and are looking to sell really quickly before it goes down, and I make a buy
offer for 19k that you accept, then the last traded price is now 19k, and
that's the new price. Nothing voodoo really, just a bunch of people making
buy/sell decisions based on how they think the value will move.

~~~
24gttghh
I guess the voodoo i feel is the speed at which these happen, and the unseen
offers for prices different (+/-) from what is the "current price"

~~~
fragmede
You can see the ones happening on GDAX on their main page,
[https://www.gdax.com/trade/BTC-USD](https://www.gdax.com/trade/BTC-USD) If it
seems ridiculous to look at this single exchange's order book and extrapolate
a whole market from that, yes, it is.

------
thisisit
Third thread on the same topic:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15987110](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15987110)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15986302](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15986302)

Edit: So the downvotes now. It seems pointing out regurgitation of the same
topic is somehow wrong. Learned my lesson here.

------
benmorris
If you looked at all of this objectively it was clear it was coming. What is
alarming we have not seen yet is one of the larger exchanges shady behavior
become exposed (hello Bitfinex). I still think this is coming and will likely
make the fall even worse (oops we're out of money!). In the past sharp BTC
movements have been triggered by external events.

------
autokad
"What’s causing the depreciation is anyone’s guess"

I thought it was obvious, a bitcoin exchange was hacked
[http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/20/technology/south-korea-
bitco...](http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/20/technology/south-korea-bitcoin-
exchange-closes/index.html)

------
legohead
Anyone know how Bitcoin plans to deal with this:
[https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-
transactions](https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions)

I saw this posted on HN, I think earlier this week? And it was around 220k.
Now it's 280k.

------
encoderer
“Crashing” to a price not seen in.... 2 weeks.

Shrug

------
dmitriid
“Hey, our currency dipped 20% today. And swings any number of percent each way
daily. You know, like Zimbabwean dollars and the like. Don’t worry, it’s value
will only increase in 2018”

People are delusional (except those who scam people out of their money)

------
cominous
_grabs popcorn watching the BTC burn_

------
FollowSteph3
I think the bubble is starting to burst. When just adding something related to
crypto currencies in your company name can result in a 500% stock increase
[https://www.marketwatch.com/story/long-island-iced-teas-
stoc...](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/long-island-iced-teas-stock-
rockets-nearly-500-after-changing-name-to-long-blockchain-2017-12-21) you
there is a bubble. That like adding dot com in the dot com bubble or a tech
sounding name in the early 80’s.

------
jefe_
Cboe & CME must have some extensive performance clauses with exchanges used
for futures pricing. A few weeks ago, selloffs like this would result in
exchanges closing.

------
repox
I never invested in Bitcoins. I've been asked by many people the past few
weeks whether or not they should invest - truthfully, I told people not to and
wait to the current "wave" of popularity was over.

I genuinely don't know that much about speculation in currency, but is this
"burst bubble" really it this time? Is this supposed to be the actual end of
actual value for Bitcoins now?

~~~
asciimo
Bitcoin has "died" hundreds of times. Here's an article discussing its doom
when it dropped 50% (down to $108) back in 2013:
[http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/06/bitcoin-sees-
th...](http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/06/bitcoin-sees-the-grim-
reaper.html) It has been the same technology since 2009, regardless of the
market around it. I think that there is real value in that technology. The
world is trying to measure this value, and having an awkward time of it. Let's
check back in 10 years. :)

------
closeneough
Maybe a lot of people want to trade this at the same time for really currency
to buy Christmas gifts.

------
Alex3917
This time I think we’re done for the year. Unlike in July, this time if you
look on Reddit there is very little appetite in ‘buying the dip’. People are
fed up after the Coinbase shenanigans and are wary about Tether, IOTA, etc.

~~~
rc_bhg
Coinbase did not do any "shenanigans". Take off the tin foil hat.

------
m3kw9
When you cannot really have a way to value something, I don’t think the world
has seen a class of “investment vehicle” like this since the subprime packages
that were being sold

------
k__
Does this really make a big difference?

I mean it's a problem for the gamblers that came in late, but the people who
were there at the beginning probably could care less.

------
calvinbhai
I'm glad this will reduce the "what is bitcoin" queries from friends and
family who are not aware of its intricacies.

------
xHopen
Come on , it didn’t crash. Is just a small correction , small dip. Is just
30-49% down that is , was, a normal day in crypto

------
Froyoh
What does it mean by:

The author owns a small amount of cryptocurrency. Enough to gain an
understanding, not enough to change a life.

------
chrischen
Mania or not historically prices have been going up, even taking into account
all the crashes.

------
seba_dos1
...and jumped back moments later. How many of these we're going to get?

------
waytogo
Some call it 'crash', some see it as the long awaited dip to get in again.

~~~
tom_mellior
Many people are writing this, but... if you had money to buy this dip, why
didn't you buy at the exact same price two weeks ago? It wasn't exactly "long"
awaited.

------
RmDen
Worst than black Monday in 1987 when the Dow dropped 22% in a single day

~~~
neolefty
Single stocks tank every day.

~~~
55555
Look at CMC. Everything is down 20-30%. They are very correlated on the way
down. [https://coinmarketcap.com/coins/](https://coinmarketcap.com/coins/)

------
scooter_de
Welcome to the future market. Now can make money on falling prices!

------
zeep
Just Wallstreet taking what is theirs...

------
hbk1966
Finally, now maybe you can get a GPU for a reasonable price again.

------
auggierose
Seems to be going up again pretty fast.

------
perseusprime11
Time to buy?

~~~
wmeredith
If you believe in it and are long. Yes, buy (be greedy) when others are
fearful. If you're trying to time the market for short term gains, I'd skip
it. You're just going to get skinned by the big players doing the manipulation
unless you're lucky.

------
sharemywin
deleted

~~~
gk1
I'm sure there was also someone who predicted 5k, 15k, 20k, and so on. Of
course _one_ of them will be right.

------
zeep
time to cash in some bitcoins if you need to lower your income to get in a
different tax bracket

------
tromp
If this keeps up, we can look forward to the "It's under 9000!" memes...

------
mtgx
The Big Boys (bankers) entered the market now, so expect some Big
Manipulations to happen.

~~~
djsumdog
I think big manipulations were already happening. That's why we saw the price
driving up.

With a currency so based around absolute mathematical constants, with just a
little coin and testing, it'd be a really easy system to manipulate as well.

------
EGreg
There is one big upside to Bitcoin's price dropping

The hash rate may drop or at least stop growing, wasting tons of electricity.

Mining operations currently consume more electricity than 159 COUNTRIES

[https://e27.co/alarming-environmental-impact-bitcoin-
mining-...](https://e27.co/alarming-environmental-impact-bitcoin-
mining-20171128/)

PS: why is this getting downvoted? Is the bitcoin mania so high now even in HN
that people care more about short term financial gains than the environment?

