

Ask Freelancers: How much do you charge? - grinich

I'm a student and I've been doing some freelance iPhone dev work between my coursework. I'm still an emerging developer, and I'd like my rate to be set accordingly, but I don't know where to start.<p>How do you calculate the rate to charge for contract/freelance work? How does it vary with web development versus iPhone versus sysadmin stuff? Per hour or a fixed amount for the project?<p>Thanks.
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evdawg
Never ever _ever_ ever __ever__ do a fixed amount for a project. You _will_
get screwed.

I've made this mistake twice in my life; both times at the end of the project
it worked out to something crazy like $5/hr along with sour relationships with
both clients.

An hourly rate is always fair, for everyone. The client gets what he pays for
and you get paid for what you give. No more, no less on either side.

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tptacek
Almost everything we do is fixed-price. I can't think of a client that has
screwed us. But we go out of our way to find ways to work ("for free", gasp!)
with clients; nothing is more valuable than the relationship.

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teej
You probably also manage your hours well and have provisions for work outside
of scope. Going hourly is much safer for someone new.

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tptacek
You're probably right, but the thing I learned from the first successful
startup I was involved in that has stuck with me my whole career is the
marketing power of customer service. It kills me when we can't make a client
happy.

Maybe the trick is, pick good clients.

(The startup was an ISP, in 1996. Even in 1996, an indie ISP was hard to
differentiate from the majors and incumbents. Mike and Tracy, the guys who ran
the company, managed to build an unassailable reputation for customer service
--- to this day, I don't understand how they did it, because I don't see how
we did anything different from the other ISPs, other than to tell ourselves we
had awesome customer service. But our ISP kicked ass up and down the block
based almost entirely on that reputation. I'd love to get some of that mojo at
Matasano.)

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gm
Amen brother! A happy customer is a great source of revenue over time even
thoguh you may take a hit from time to time. How big a hti you take depends on
how good you are at what you do, and how good the client is (as far as helping
you draft good specs for them).

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pz
I think you can charge more for iPhone development versus web development just
because there are fewer folks with those skills. I've only done a few contract
jobs but no one has every argued my rate ($100/hour). I always charge by the
hour and I would suggest doing this, especially if they don't have a detailed
spec. Most of jobs are with folks who don't have a background designing
software (since now everyone thinks they can get rich off of a dumb iPhone
app) and so its inevitable that the project will change. This way, if they
want to tweak some feature, they have to pay.

You can also discuss taking a cut of the app revenue in exchange for a
discount, but i would be wary of this. I am doing it for one project because
the project was smaller in scale, so its less of a gamble. I had another that
I almost offered a 50% discount in exchange for 50% equity... and that app has
made about $10 in the month or so its been in the store. So, my experience
tells me avoid royalty arrangements....

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wehriam
From anecdotal evidence, it's not unusual for iPhone devs to make $120 an hour
or more. $60-$80 for a skilled developer with limited experience seems
appropriate.

Don't be afraid to start at a high hourly rate, it almost always works out in
your favor. Excuse the metaphor, but clients want to feel like they're getting
a great deal on a Lexus rather than a satisfactory deal on a Hyundai, even if
the price is the same. The key is elevating your perceived value. Talking
clients through complex technical issues and possible solutions before
negotiating often helps.

Don't bother with the freelancing sites, as rates are low. You'd be competing
on price with overseas developers rather than playing to strengths like
availability, perceived value of your formal education, and communication
skills.

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teej
What salary would you make coming out of college? Figure out what that is
hourly. Multiply it by 3.

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vaksel
If you are going to do some of those freelancing sites, you really can't
charge more than $15-20 hour to be competitive

And you shouldn't admit to being an emerging developer, people are pretty wary
of dealing with "amateurs". You need a reputation before anyone will pick you.

My advice is as follows: a) Spend about $500 to get some feedback. Don't get
greedy and make all of those large projects. You need to start out with a few
small ones, then get a few large ones. Your goal is to have 7-8 "feedbacks"
about how great you are.

b) At the same time you should bid on other projects, doesn't matter if its
big or small, if its a $20 project or a $30 project. Your goal in the early
stage is to get a lot of feedback points.

c) Once you reach 20 or so feedbacks you'll be able to actually win some of
those larger projects. At this point your skills will improve, and you can
actually start charging more than the average offshore developer. You can
explain the difference by saying you are in the USA and are actually in the
same time zone as your clients.

Also if you have some free time, make 5-6 websites, that you can point to as
your "work". They don't need to be super complicated, but they should look
good.

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krschultz
When you say bid for projects, how do you get that opportunity? I simply don't
know where the people looking for consultants are looking. The guys I know
doing freelance work are established in their niches and are the known go-to
guy, but how do you start out without a reputation bidding for work?

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vaksel
Sites like getafreelancer.com, scriptlance.com, rentacoder.com, there are a
bunch of them. And yes without a reputation you won't win any bids, thats why
I mentioned using $500 or so bucks to make some fake accounts to build the
initial reputation. Probably a good idea to just start out with one site, then
when you start making some money, do the same thing for other sites

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krschultz
Thank you

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menloparkbum
I charge $85/hr for iPhone, web and sysadmin type work. It's not the highest
and I'm good so I'm never out of work. If you're a student something like $50
is probably fine. I mean, it's like 7 times as much as what your fellow
students doing work-study are making. Ages ago I made $25/hr programming perl
as a student and lived like a king. It's largely about context but don't sell
yourself short.

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lowdown
I've generally charged $50 for my "still learning" rate. I need to raise it to
$75 soon I think.

On a related note, I started networking lately - going to user group meetings
and the like - with a lot of success in regards to my freelancing. I hit
groups for topics I am interested in and with good crossover in the fields I
know well.

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rmc00
I found that I like hourly rates better than fixed prices. Fixed prices work
great if you have a lot of experience on which you can base estimates. For
someone who is an emerging developer, I would suggest starting out at a modest
hourly rate. Once you have some credibility, you can bump up the hourly rate
or start estimating using fixed price.

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kingnothing
I did some freelance web design / html coding as well as standard computer
repair work about 6 or 7 years ago when I first got out of high school and
charged $60 per hour for both. One hour minimum, charge by the half hour after
that.

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villageidiot
Ask what you would get paid for the same work as an in-house employee. Now
double that.

