
The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More - cadlin
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/10/upshot/the-trucking-industry-needs-more-drivers-it-should-try-paying-more.html?ref=business&_r=0
======
the_ancient
It is not a matter of paying "more" but changing how they pay

Most Truckers are paid by the mile... So if your sitting in traffic no pay
(next time your stopped in traffic look around, how many semi's are sitting
with you, most of those drivers are doing it for free)

Then there is load and unload time, which for some companies is non-paid,
other is a nominal flat rate of like $35 that could take up hours of your day.

Then there is the "hours of service" which many companies require their
drivers go "off duty" when they arrive at warehouse, but the warehouse
required them to monitor the CB Radio to be called to pull into a dock, so
their "sleep" time is taken up waiting to be unloaded, and they do this
waiting for free.

Trucking companies need to end the practice of per mile pay, and start paying
drivers Per Hour or a Salary (non-exempt) like every other company.

~~~
anifow
I disagree.

An hourly wage is a very special payment system which requires some kind of
foreman to be sustainable. Otherwise, the labour industry tends to drift
towards inefficiencies that allow them to claim money for less work. This is
classic agency risk, where the incentives are not aligned, and heading down
this path often entails major bureaucracies to try and keep everyone honest
(like time clocks and punch cards, a "boss" looking over you, etc).

Simply paying more within the existing structure makes perfect sense. It will
actually have a disproportionate effect on recruitment when some of the most
efficient drivers start bragging about making $160,000 a year driving trucks
(this is one of the big drivers of immigration by the way. Compared to poorer
nations, the streets are paved in gold in the USA, and some lucky immigrants
find shovels to dig it up. Unfortunately, most people who come never get a
shovel so it remains but a dream...).

Paying more by the mile absorbs the costs of refuelling and traffic, without
giving any driver an incentive to waste time when, for example refuelling the
truck. So rational truckers will go to gas stations that are more efficient
and will get out of there as soon as they can.

Where the trucker has no agency, however, it could make sense to pay by the
hour. For example, since loading is in the hands of another group as soon as
the truck docks in, and since it can vary quite a bit based on warehouse,
better that the driver is paid for time sitting around. You could argue that
the driver's incentive is to rush the loaders, but I doubt they have any
coercion in that process. So better that the shipping company have an
incentive to make loadings as fast possible through influence over choice of
warehouse, penalties to warehouses for slow loadings, etc.

I've never really thought about this industry before, but thinking about it
now makes it sound very interesting!

~~~
crdoconnor
>This is classic agency risk, where the incentives are not aligned

Paying by the mile is even worse. How much incentive does the company have to
make unloading and loading more efficient when they get it for free?

~~~
_yosefk
If drivers spend much time loading and unloading, and not getting paid, the
amount paid per mile required to attract drivers will rise.

~~~
crdoconnor
What seems more likely, actually, is that you will get Akerlof's classic lemon
market - due to the information asymmetry of paying by the mile.

The _employer_ knows how much value the driver's gonna contribute for the
money they pay, but the potential drivers aren't at all sure how much income
they'll get paid for their time/effort. They basically only have hearsay from
other drivers/ex-drivers to go on. Furthermore, some are getting burned and
leaving the industry (I know personally of one; and there's another in this
very thread), and telling others about their experiences.

The number of confounding variables and risks (including but not limited to
loading/unloading) are simply too high for them to be able to make an accurate
judgment about their potential income.

The natural effect of a lemon market is that the market dries up because the
buyers/sellers simply stop transacting when the problems caused by the
information asymmetry are too much.

That actually seems to be exactly the situation we're getting here. The wages
don't seem to be _that_ bad actually, but the risk is all piled on to the
driver, so new recruits are very reluctant to enter the industry after hearing
a few horror stories.

Lots of startups have gone down for similar reasons - pricing that is too
complex makes potential customers go 'fuck it' and go with the devil they
know.

~~~
judk
The market for lemons doesn't really apply here, because a lemon market
requires a supply that is heavily weighted toward worthless goods, to drag the
average down to 0 as the "best" opportunities are withdrawn from market.

~~~
anigbrowl
Assume labor is the currency and the good is cash. If a majority of trucking
employers give employees a mediocre or poor deal, then the supply of trucking
jobs in the aggregate delivers poor value for the required labor input, in
comparison to other lines of employment. Good firms either go out of business
(due to being undercut) or retain their drivers, such that there are few
openings at good firms.

In an ideal world good firms would increase their market share, but doing that
requires satisfying trucking consumers and they want their goods shipped as
cheaply and quickly as possible. So the interests of consumers and suppliers
(of trucking services, ie drivers) are not very well aligned. I don't know
what can be done about this; as a consumer I have absolutely no clue which
hauling companies handle the goods I purchase, nor do I have any clue how much
of a good's price consists of shipping costs. So I can't really vote with my
dollars to let store owners know that I'm willing to pay a little more to
support trucking companies that treat their employees well.

------
fred_durst
Sorry, Swift's stock price is more about the horror show that is Swift's
corporate governance. Especially CEO Jerry Moyes. The very fact that he'll
keep his job after this dismal lack of forecasting is an example of how much
corruption there is there. Honestly, I would not be surprised if it was
intentional.

He had to step down 10 years ago due to insider trading with Swift shares. Now
he's back after a they brought it private and then to a second IPO.

The stock tanked, in my opinion, because investors know they can't trust Jerry
Moyes and Swift's board.

More fun stuff.

[http://teamster.org/content/teamsters-warn-swift-
transportat...](http://teamster.org/content/teamsters-warn-swift-
transportation-board-lets-ceo-pledge-nearly-25-percent-outstanding)
[http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/9796076/nhl-lawsuit-
jerry-...](http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/9796076/nhl-lawsuit-jerry-moyes-
former-phoenix-coyotes-owner-thrown-according-report)

------
A_COMPUTER
My semi-retired parents were lured in by the claims of making upwards of 80K a
year if you worked hard enough. They did it for about three years and quit
with more debt than when they started. You can only make decent money if you
own your own rig, which costs as much as a house. Trucking is heavily
regulated, but in ways that dump all the problems on the drivers. You are in
competition with other drivers, which pretty much guarantees you're going to
be cooking the books increasingly regulated-away ways, not to mention how
dangerous it is.

There are exceptions to everything though, if you've been on the road long
enough you make more money per mile as you build up a reputation, or you can
make money money working for fedex or doing hazardous materials shipping, but
it takes years of toiling in shit conditions for low pay to get to that point.

They also told me that they met a lot of people who clearly hadn't done the
math, and were losing money instead of making it despite working very hard.
The cost of the truck alone puts you in massive debt with no guarantee of work
to pay it off.

As far as automating it, maybe in 20 years it will be viable. It's not useful
to talk about that today.

~~~
msane
I think automation will happen sooner than we expect. 5-8 years seems likely
to me. There is a hurdle with interstate trucking, where some states will lag
behind in allowing it and providing the required bureaucratic support. But it
is already technologically possible, if not yet a fully developed product. It
just takes one company to get it allowed in one state and start doing it, the
others will follow. Self driving personal vehicles are 1-3 years away from
being on the market, it seems natural that trucking will follow.

I think trained people might still handle the parking though for a while :P

~~~
A_COMPUTER
My impression from riding along with my parents is that every day is filled
with mostly improvisation. From dealing with bad, aggressive drivers who will
get you and themselves killed, to rapidly changing road and weather
conditions, to widely disparate entrances and loading docks, inaccurate GPS,
etc. it just seems like the times that the self-driving would benefit are so
infrequent with regular cross-country driving and delivery. This seems so
different than a self-driving car that mostly is going to take you to and from
work and the grocery store, etc.

There is also the liability issue, I mentioned that things are rigged to dump
the hassles on the drivers and this is one of them. You're economically
pressured to falsify log data, so when you nod off and accidentally kill some
people, your employer is off the hook. A nice working self-driving truck would
reduce fatalities caused by gross driver error, but I guess it would put the
trucking company back on the hook in the cases where a catastrophe did happen.
In the short term self-driving vehicles might be undesirable to some companies
because it might eliminate their ability to shove negative externalities onto
a third party (the drivers.)

self-driving commercial trucks will happen, I just think 5-8 years is not
likely.

~~~
olalonde
Maybe they will initially be used for long straight lines on highways and the
human drivers will only be responsible for the "last mile" drive.

~~~
VLM
We call that a "train". Steel wheels on steel rails just works better over
long distances. Then trucks to haul from station to individual loading docks.
I also live about 25 miles from a small port that on rare occasion does get
container freight traffic.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermodal_freight_transport](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermodal_freight_transport)

Lots of existing infrastructure for this, cheaper to use than to put AI in
each truck.

~~~
angry_octet
I'd love to agree because rail is beautiful. However rail is even more over
regulated than trucking. Also it requires massive capital investments, both in
the rail system and operators to get economies of scale, which causes problems
with monopolistic pricing. Also the trucking industry has huge $$$ influence
on politicians.

On the plus side for rail, high speed automated container systems could
significantly reduce delays, automate shunting yards, etc. The difference
between automated docks like Rotterdam and the manual way trains are loaded is
stark:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxXZQ7emHC0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxXZQ7emHC0)
[http://videos.howstuffworks.com/discovery/35955-extreme-
engi...](http://videos.howstuffworks.com/discovery/35955-extreme-engineering-
loading-container-train-video.htm)

The use of driver-less trains is feasible, but the rail network (especially
signalling) in America is so antiquated. Perhaps outsource it to the
Netherlands...

Automated rail container system fails:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7I4wa1gpoc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7I4wa1gpoc)

------
polarix
> But corporate America has become so parsimonious about paying workers
> outside the executive suite that meaningful wage increases may seem an
> unacceptable affront. In this environment, it may be easier to say “There is
> a shortage of skilled workers” than “We aren’t paying our workers enough,”
> even if, in economic terms, those come down to the same thing.

~~~
x0x0
And it's not like trucking is a good job. For that princely (!!!) $41k / year,
you are often away from home. I'd bet you don't get comped for all the meals
you eat on the road either, so there goes a bunch of money spent eating out,
even if it is just at truck stop diners. If you have a family, and and your
partner has a job -- as he or she must, given that shit salary -- knock
$4-$10k/year off for daycare as well. I mean, I'm just _stunned_ people aren't
begging for these jobs. Not to mention that from some reading, and I
unfortunately forgot the link, it appears that truckers have to choose between
keeping their jobs or obeying safety regulations. But never you worry, if they
get caught violating sleep requirements only they get in trouble, not the
companies.

It's funny; this story is a perfect analogy [1] for [2] something [3] but [4]
I [5] just [6] can't [7] think [8] of [9] what [10]. Meanwhile, true story: a
former employer not only completely lied to me about what I'd be doing, but
then threw a fit when I quit two months in. And sent potential engineering
recruits a python puzzle with a naked woman in it. It's a shock why employers
have trouble hiring is all I'm saying...

[1]
[http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB113210508287498432](http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB113210508287498432)

[2]
[http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/04/11/1201127/-Facebook-C...](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/04/11/1201127/-Facebook-
CEO-Wants-More-H-1B-Visas)

[3] [http://www.forbes.com/sites/ayoomojola/2013/07/15/the-
shorta...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/ayoomojola/2013/07/15/the-shortage-of-
developer-talent-is-crushing-mobile/)

[4] [http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/11/technology/zuckerberg-
tech-p...](http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/11/technology/zuckerberg-tech-
pac/index.html)

[5] [http://www.crn.com/news/channel-programs/240163468/nice-
work...](http://www.crn.com/news/channel-programs/240163468/nice-work-if-you-
can-get-it-the-it-talent-shortage-is-more-serious-than-you-think.htm)

[6] [http://www.infoworld.com/t/h-1b/silicon-valley-leaders-
unite...](http://www.infoworld.com/t/h-1b/silicon-valley-leaders-unite-fwdus-
in-push-more-h-1b-visas-216359)

[7] [http://thehill.com/policy/technology/258985-microsoft-
lack-o...](http://thehill.com/policy/technology/258985-microsoft-lack-of-tech-
workers-approaching-genuine-crisis)

[8] [http://www.sfgate.com/business/networth/article/Real-
estate-...](http://www.sfgate.com/business/networth/article/Real-estate-taxes-
soar-along-with-home-prices-5673040.php)

[9]
[http://sf.curbed.com/archives/2014/08/07/gasp_sfs_housing_ma...](http://sf.curbed.com/archives/2014/08/07/gasp_sfs_housing_market_is_not_that_overvalued_after_all.php)

[10] [http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/blog/real-
estate/201...](http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/blog/real-
estate/2014/06/bay-area-home-prices-san-francisco-case-shiller.html?page=all)

~~~
rdtsc
But then again it is rather interdependent. Why would they want to pay more if
they get enough people knocking on their door.

In other words for everyone saying "hell no" there is another that say "ok, i
have no choice, i'll take it" well the business moves on.

I have also heard some East Europeans (Polish for ex) drivers come here (not
sure on what kind of visa) and they are willing to work for much less, then
send money home. Same patterns as farm workers from Latin America working
here.

~~~
thetrumanshow
Concur (with anecdotal data from observation); Tons of Eastern European
drivers now hauling through the heartland. I bet it pays better than being a
software developer back home.

------
l33tbro
Hmmm, why are we still talking about truck drivers exactly?

The trucking industry is about to tank hard. Mercedes demo'd its first
driverless truck a couple of weeks ago (!). Yes, there will be specialists
drivers sure and niche companies. But the day of the interstate road train
will be done shortly.

The biggest new niche in my mind will be vehicle security. These trucks will
be flying solo across the nation - unmanned. How will these trucks be fitted
out against good ol' fashioned highway robbers in remote areas that are barely
on the grid?

Fun times ahead.

(!). [http://www.caradvice.com.au/295713/self-driving-mercedes-
ben...](http://www.caradvice.com.au/295713/self-driving-mercedes-benz-truck-
demonstrated-in-germany/)

~~~
tdicola
I like your optimism, but realistically self driving trucks on American
highways are a long way off. How will the trucks refuel? How will they handle
loading and unloading? How will they handle inclement weather? What is the
insurance liability for putting them on public roads? Who will be sued when a
driverless truck crashes into another car (at fault or not)?

Even Mercedes says in that article, "the Highway Pilot system could be
launched into production trucks 'as early as 2025 if conditions permit'."
Which is basically corporate speak for, "we have no idea if this will ever
launch, but it will get investors excited now."

~~~
sanswork
>How will the trucks refuel?

Full serve gas stations.

>How will they handle loading and unloading?

Do long haul drivers typically load/unload themselves these days? I would have
thought that would have been the task of the warehouse staff on either end.

>How will they handle inclement weather?

Probably better than human driven trucks why would you think they couldn't?

>What is the insurance liability for putting them on public roads?

Probably less than human driven trucks since you don't have to worry about a
lot of things that will cause problems for those such as tired/impared
drivers.

>Who will be sued when a driverless truck crashes into another car (at fault
or not)?

The trucks insurance company. Same as it would currently happen.

~~~
Karunamon
Going to disagree with you there on inclement weather. Getting a self-driving
system to work on sunny days and clear nights when there's an otherwise clean
view of the road and surroundings is one thing, and that's the challenge I see
most people working on right now.

Now try the same thing in the middle of winter, the equivalent of visual noise
is obstructing both the road and the surroundings. People are good at picking
out patterns in this condition, especially if they've been driving for a
while, computers notsomuch.

Sure, it's a matter of the tech advancing, but solving the second problem is
harder than solving the first.

~~~
sanswork
People are horrible at driving in any kind of bad weather. They speed through
foggy conditions where they can't see 50 feet in front of them. They drive too
fast or erratically on icy or snowy conditions, or they just flat out don't
know how to handle the conditions and swerve/oversteer.

If people were any good at it there would be no increase in crashes during
winter, foggy or wet weather conditions.

Self driving vehicles will have the same issues with seeing in the visual
spectrum in bad weather as humans but they will also have the advantage of IR
for example in knowing if something is in the fog/snow in front of them and
how to react to that.

You also remove the emotional component. Humans in really bad weather tend to
either ignore it(which is risky) or drive scared(which leads to over reactions
which leads to accidents). For the second case things like over correcting,
slamming on breaks, swerving, etc all lead to tons of accidents that are
easily avoidable.

~~~
Karunamon
I said people were good at picking out patterns, not that they were
necessarily good drivers.

~~~
sanswork
Yup and I said with technology it doesn't really matter since computers aren't
limited to our visual spectrum(they can use thermal imaging when needed for
example) so they won't have the same difficulty seeing in those conditions as
we do.

This is further compounded by the fact that even if humans can see the
patterns they rarely act on them perfectly and often do the exact opposite of
what they should do.

------
lgleason
Sounds like the same argument being used for more H1B visas. We cant find
enough (cheap) resources locally so we need to import some from elsewhere
willing to work for a pittance.

~~~
hibikir
The strength of the argument changes with market elasticity.

If a single company has trouble hiring, they can raise salaries. However, if
the pool of workers remains finite, all you are really doing is switching
which company has the hiring problem. If two people need an all day plumbing
job done today, and there's only one plumber in time, one of them is not going
to get it done, regardless of how much they pay.

So when we look industry-wide, what the salary increases do is make people
change professions. If it takes the same effort to become a truck driver than
a cab driver, but the truck driver makes 4 times as much, everything else
being equal, we'll have more trouble finding people to be cabbies, as long as
there's an opportunity trucking. People then decide which training they get to
choose. But the real demand problem is not solved until the workers are
trained.

We don't even need workers for this. Imagine that we suddenly need 60 million
gallons of 25 year old scotch every day. It doesn't matter how much we want to
pay: There isn't enough scotch to meet demand today. If we paid a million
dollars a bottle, it'd not make a difference: We'd only get an increase in
supply as time goes by, and people just put more scotch on casks, and don't
open the casks at 15 years, because 25 makes more money: But nothing is going
to make this demand shock get fixed earlier, no matter how much you pay.

So the harder it is to actually perform the job, and the longer it takes to
train, the stronger the immigration argument gets.

~~~
tomjen3
> if the pool of workers remains finite

You take an alternative. There may only be one plumber, but if he is bid up to
a million I am going to spend a day doing it myself, buy an entirely new
WHATEVER_WE_ARE_REPLACING or do without. If the price of scotchs go to 50 usd
per centilitier I am going to buy rum. If programmers start charging 10000
usd/day I am going to continue doing my spreadsheets by hand.

Your analysis fails to take into account substitute goods. If a taxi gets too
expensive I can rent a car (no driver cost), take public transportation (lot
less driver cost) or stay the night and go home when I am sober.

~~~
erichocean
_> If programmers start charging 10000 usd/day I am going to continue doing my
spreadsheets by hand._

This is funny for two reasons:

1\. Programmers _do_ earn $1000 USD/day—it's only $125/hour. My rate is $225
and has been for years.

2\. Spreadsheets are a killer app precisely because you _don 't_ need to be a
programmer to use them. Prior to spreadsheets, all computer-based accounting
was done by hiring and paying programmers. Spreadsheets ended that which is
why they are (and continue to be) so successful.

:)

------
yorak
Automating a fleet of trucks has come up few times in these comments. Many
commenters have raised concerns of difficult and special situations.

I have worked with machine vision and currently I'm doing my PhD in
computational logistics (mainly working on automating the deployment of
Vehicle Routing Systems). With this background in mind have given some tought
to this: What would be needed, at least in the transition phase, is technology
that would allow remote drive-by-wire of trucks in difficult situations
(platforms, urban traffic) and wheater conditions.

Imagine a system not entirely unlike the unmanned UAVs the US is using but for
civilian use of remote controlling trucks. One driver could probably handle
dowzen or so trucks because they would drive under full automation at least
90% of the time. In addition the truck driver could have a normal 9 to 5 job.

Of course there are technical challenges like communications delay etc., but
I'd like to hear your opinion on feasibility of such system.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Delay in the control loop is always critical to accurate control. But in the
case of a large heavy truck, we already have to live with that (slow
acceleration/braking/steering response built in).

------
rmason
I've got a good friend with his Masters degree who quit teaching school to
drive a truck because it paid so much more. He makes a great deal more than
$41 K a year. It must depend on the particular company and the alternatives
where you live.

~~~
tapp
I researched this a bunch at one point. Some of the primary variables are:

* Licensure (e.g. if you have a Hazmat endorsement) * Route type (Long haul pays a lot more) * Driver's safety record * Employment status - Independent contractors who own their own rig vs captive employees Etc.

~~~
rmason
My friend picks up high end foreign cars at the port and takes them to the
different dealerships. They're very high priced vehicles and the company is
extremely fussy about every step of the process. Most of his fellow drivers
are college graduates by the way.

------
briandh
This is way too far down the fold:

> For example, new safety requirements mean that individual truckers drive
> fewer miles than a decade ago: An average long-haul truck can now cover
> 8,000 miles a month, down from almost 11,000 in 2007, according to the trade
> association.

So the maximum miles driven per month is 73% of what it was in 2007, whereas
the inflation-adjusted salary is 97% (based on eyeballing the graph) of what
it was.

Now, if despite the higher maximum drivers were going, say 9000 miles a month
before 2007, the difference would be less stark. Nevertheless, viewing from
that perspective makes the situation seem much different.

Of course, that doesn't account for the 03-07 downward trend.

And while I do agree in theory that they should "just" raise wages if they
need more drivers, we should be careful jumping to conclusions as outsiders.
After all, it is possible, for instance, that paying new (and probably many
existing) drivers more could eat up the revenues gained from the customers
they're currently turning away. And moreover, said prospective customers could
adapt so that by the time the trucking companies have enough drivers, the
orders are no longer there.

------
hughes
Maybe transport & trucking needs to be automated. If there's a lack of
labourers, why not fill in the gaps with self-driving semis?

~~~
greenyoda
I think we're quite a bit farther away from self-driving semis than from self-
driving cars. Big trucks are much more dangerous vehicles than cars: their
braking distances are much longer, their weight makes it possible for them to
destroy any cars in their path, they can require multiple lanes to make a
turn, many car drivers don't know how to drive safely near trucks, etc.

~~~
pjbrunet
No kidding. I'll get downvoted for this but the Hacker News demographic hasn't
spent much time on the road. Try driving down 710 toward Long Beach. Last time
I lived down there, tons of trucks, tiny lanes, uneven pavement, completely
insane. I want to see a self-driving car navigate Manhattan or Brooklyn during
the day, normal driving rules do not apply there, New York drivers mean
business ;-)

~~~
thrownaway2424
Sure, but the entire 710 just needs to be demolished. They should be moving
those containers out of the port on trains, but they've got it backwards. They
move the containers out of the port on trucks, to intermodal terminals inland
where they get switched to trains. Completely backwards. If they just punched
the railroads through all the way to Long Beach then they wouldn't need those
trucks on 710 humping boxes to the Inland Empire.

~~~
_delirium
> If they just punched the railroads through

Isn't that what the Alameda Corridor project did?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alameda_Corridor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alameda_Corridor)

~~~
thrownaway2424
Yes, but they still don't have the capacity commensurate with the number of
boats offloading at the ports.

------
2close4comfort
Margins are VERY tight in transportation. In a solid company most of this
should be going to pay drivers, and in decent companies it does they can make
a pretty decent paycheck (none of that per mile crap) BUT with licensing
points and experience being the biggest roadblocks getting decent drivers.
Plus how many kids are growing up to be truck drivers these days... not many

~~~
LargeWu
Then trucking companies can maintain their margins by charging more to haul
goods. If there really is excess demand, then the market should be able to
absorb price increases.

~~~
2close4comfort
Safety would be the largest cut into margins. Completely unplanned and
everything from bumping into a yellow pole to an accident. Those all cost
hundreds of thousands apprx 130k for a yellow pole...the market is not ready
or willing for the risk that the companies traditionally absorb.

------
frozenport
Is the real story that the overhead for trucking is too large and we should
switch to more cost effective transport like rail?

------
Havvy
I've got family in the auto transport brokerage industry. Can confirm that
there is a shortage of drivers.

~~~
dehmlow
I have some familiarity with the trucking industry in the midwest. I can also
confirm that there's a shortage of drivers in the region.

The funny thing is that at some companies, working some overtime (although
under the safety limit), drivers can make ~$80k including benefits, which is
pretty good considering the cost of living there.

~~~
the_ancient
The only people I know that can make that level of money is Owner Operators,
and while gross my be 80K most of that ends up back in the truck.

If you know of a company driver making 80K a year let me know the name of that
company

~~~
dehmlow
They are all hazardous material tank drivers. Some are owner operators, some
are not. And some were close to that as local drivers.

~~~
the_ancient
1\. Hazardous drivers have a shit load more regulations on them, and I do not
believe it would be worth 80K to haul some of that shit

2\. You have to be an experienced driver with spotless driving record for most
companies, I would hope these companies are not hiring newly minted 6 week
school drivers to haul HazMat.

3\. this specialize area of trucking should be used to gauge the wider
industry.

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gremlinsinc
THis will be moot in a few years when automated cars are in place, truckers
will be begging for jobs.

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jtshana92
More star journalism from the NY Times:

"In this environment, it may be easier to say 'There is a shortage of skilled
workers' than 'We aren’t paying our workers enough,' even if, in economic
terms, those come down to the same thing."

No, those aren't necessarily the same thing. Even if there was a surplus of
licensed truck drivers to meet the new demand, it does not mean that the sole
reason trucking companies don't wish to hire more workers is because it will
cost too much in wages. I suspect the reason they don't hire more truckers to
fill existing empty truck seats is for the following reasons:

1) Every truck runs with a huge damage liability (life insurance, lost goods,
rebates to customers). A string of truck crashes from the increased volume
would rapidly eat into the profits of more business.

2) Operating costs: gas, computer systems, dispatchers, parts, labor. It may
be cheaper to raise prices on existing routes, and leave a few trucks empty.

Here's another snippit:

"It’s not an ideal job for everyone. There is no question that trucking is
hard work, necessitating long hours and longer stretches away from family. But
that’s why it is well compensated, at least in comparison to other jobs not
requiring college degrees."

Nobody is paid because the job is hard and lonely. Oil workers in North Dakota
aren't paid 250k a year because it's "5 times" harder than a desk job of 50k.
Companies pay workers based on what the company expects its customers will
pay. No matter how hard the job is, if the market doesn't want to pay higher
prices to move goods via truck (which is what would happen if you rose
trucker's salaries to 50k instead of 40k, for example), then the companies
employing the truckers won't want to take on those higher wage costs.

So TLDR, if you feel you can run a more cost-efficient trucking company, then
go fucking do it.

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grondilu
Or maybe they need to invest in self-driving trucks R&D.

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Thimothy
Aaaand just another reason with liberal economics is bullsh _t. Perfect market
my_ ss.

