
How to build discipline and brainwash yourself - ryanwaggoner
http://ryanwaggoner.com/2010/11/the-greatest-secret-in-the-world/
======
edw519
Reasons to not buy the book:

1\. I am a scientist. This sure doesn't seem like science to me.

Reasons to buy the book:

1\. I am too ignorant to be pessimistic.

2\. The source of the suggestion. Ryan's judgement usually seems pretty sound.

Two reasons are better than one. Just bought the book.

I'll start on Monday. I'll start on Monday. I'll start on Monday. I'll start
on Monday. I'll start on Monday. I'll start on Monday. I'll start on Monday.
I'll start on Monday. I'll start on Monday.

~~~
DevX101
_I am a scientist. This sure doesn't seem like science to me._

I'm not an expert in self-motivation so I don't know if there are placebo
controlled randomized experiments to test effectiveness of self-motivation,
but it seems like a reasonable and testable hypothesis that there are some
real cognitive effects.

We know that athletes exhibit "muscle memory" where after prolonged repetition
of a physical motion there are real changes that occur in the brain to make
future repetitions sub-conscious, i.e. "being in the zone".

I suppose there could be an analagous system for higher order cognitive
processes.

~~~
nostrademons
There's most definitely an analogous system for higher order cognitive
processes. If you play Starcraft a lot, you will get better at Starcraft. If
you program a lot, you will get better at programming. If you write a lot, you
will get better at writing.

The part I'm not sure about is that additional level of abstraction. In my
experience, if you _read about programming_ a lot, you may get marginally
better at programming, but nowhere near as good as you would've gotten had you
spent that time programming. Similarly, if you _read about persisting_ a lot,
I doubt you'll get as good as you would if, every time you thought about
quitting, you told yourself 'no' and kept going.

~~~
berntb
There is a point, since there will be diminishing returns, but you miss the
concept of complementary training.

For instance, it is afaik hard to become a good chess player without reading a
bit about opening theory and reading about old matches. It is hard to become
good at graphics programming without some math. And so on.

------
ryanwaggoner
I hesitated before submitting this here, because motivational / self-
improvement stuff is a hard sell with the HN crowd (and for good reason).
However, I've found it very helpful, and thought someone else here might as
well. We all like to read deep, technical things that make us smarter and more
knowledgeable, but it turns out that most people fail not because they're not
smart enough or knowledgeable enough, but because they lack the discipline and
drive to match their goals and ambitions.

~~~
eru
How about writing your own mantras and them repeating on the book's schedule?

~~~
ryanwaggoner
I agree that this could be a really effective approach, and I did consider it,
particularly because I'm a Christian and I spent more time reading this book
than I do reading my Bible :)

Actually, you've just given me an idea; I'm going to put together something
like this for hackers and founders. Come to think of it, that's a little of
what we're doing at <http://hn.21times.org>, though the articles are too long
for this kind of repetitive reading. Any suggestions?

~~~
mmavnn
Proverbs. It conveniently has 31 chapters (one for each day of the month) and
is full of useful... well, proverbs. The mix of the painfully down to earth
and strongly God centred is helpful sometimes as well.

Edit: this isn't so much a suggestion to founders/hackers in general, more to
the Christian ones given your comment above. Plenty of good stuff in there for
everyone, though.

------
bh42
There was a study which pointed out that this only works if you have self
confidence, then you can brainwash yourself with affirmations like those.

But if you are insecure, then affirmations actually make you worse of because
it is like poking your vicious inner self-critic with a stick.

I'd love to cite the study but my google-fu fails me today.

~~~
jkkramer
<http://www.economist.com/node/13815141?story_id=13815141>

[http://www.psychologicalscience.org/media/releases/2009/wood...](http://www.psychologicalscience.org/media/releases/2009/wood.cfm)

------
EdiX
Read this sentence three times a day for five weeks:

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and
expecting different results."

~~~
aamar
I think this was a joke, but I hope no one has ever made any assessment or
decision of any sort on the basis of this quip (incidentally, not
Einstein's[1]).

This, of course, is not the definition of insanity, nor is it a remotely good
proxy. Doing things over and over again -- whether chopping at that tree or
going to the gym or working on a difficult problem -- should absolutely yield
different results. All actions accumulate, some more than others.

[1] <http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Rita_Mae_Brown>

~~~
light3
I always thought of the 'different result' as meaning improvement, and the
action in repetition as being suboptimal. Thereby no matter how much you
practice you will be at best improving sub-optimally.

This makes particular sense when you're practicing a musical instrument, bad
habits will be more and more engraved as you repeat more. The best instrument
players are those who have been taught or self-discovered good ways to
improve, and put in the hard practice/repetition.

------
joseacta
The repeating of the sentences every day has to do with your subconscious
mind. Repeating it will record these words in your brain and with time your
thinking will change along. If you read it once, probably tomorrow you won't
remember what it said.

------
amih
I'm not religious but this seems like prayer, where you repeat with similar
frequency some ideas. Unlike established religion, here you can pick the
subject you want to transfer to your mind as new habits of thought. Nice! I
will check this book.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
Christian prayer is usually non-repetitive. However I know in other religions
(Islam say) that prayer is more often strictly formalised. I guess if you used
the Book of Common Prayer or something then it would work for Anglicans too.

More like meditation, it made me think of Ps119:97+ or the last para of
Phillipians; or indeed any of multiple places where the Bible reader is
encouraged to meditate on scripture and hold it in their hearts (or indeed as
the Jews act out "pin it to your forehead").

~~~
mildweed
There are a lot of good motivational/business advice passages in the Bible,
I'd be interested to see if somebody's assembled all of those into a
collection.

~~~
mmavnn
A lot of them are already conveniently gathered in the book of Proverbs (see
my comment above)

------
diziet
I just don't buy that saying something like:

 _Henceforth, I will consider each day’s effort as but one blow of my blade
against a mighty oak. The first blow may cause not a tremor in the wood, nor
the second, nor the third. Each blow, of itself, may be trifling, and seem of
no consequence. Yet from childish swipes the oak will eventually tumble. So it
will be with my efforts of today.

I will be liken to the rain drop which washes away the mountain; the ant who
devours a tiger; the star which brightens the earth; the slave who builds a
pyramid. I will build my castle one brick at a time for I know that small
attempts, repeated, will complete any undertaking._

is going to help me do anything but look silly. Maybe I'm just a pragmatic
rationalist.

~~~
ryanwaggoner
_Maybe I'm just a pragmatic rationalist._

Interesting that you chose the word pragmatic, since pragmatism says that an
idea needs to be tested and found valid before considered true. I've done that
to the best of my ability in my own life, while you're rejecting it out of
hand, without testing or validation.

As for rationalism, are you really convinced that it's irrational or
unreasonable to believe that reading the same thing over and over will help
reinforce it in your mind? Perhaps you're the type of person who can hear
something once and immediately apply it to all relevant areas of your life,
but I'm not.

I _know_ that I should just small steps towards a very challenging goal. I
_know_ that not giving up in the face of overwhelming adversity is important.
I _know_ that time is the most valuable resource I have. But those things are
hard to remember in the thick of it, when my emotions are telling me to stop,
give up, waste time.

At the end of the day, you are a slave to your habits and your defined ways of
thinking about yourself and the world around you. Better to be a slave to good
habits and positive ways of thinking. Greatness is rarely achieved without a
healthy dose of hubris about one's own abilities, ignorance about what is
realistic, or both.

Let's flip this around: what are you trying to accomplish with your life? And
what's the biggest _internal_ roadblock to you accomplishing it?

------
tygorius
As much as I enjoy and have profited by reading Mandino's books, I have to
point out that from a _hacker_ perspective, there's a significant case of
prior art in Benjamin Franklin's attempt to perfect his character by
practicing each of 13 virtues for a week, cycling through them all four times
over the course of a year. Not having computers, he used the technology of his
time and made a chart to mark his progress. It's detailed in his autobiography
and I would be greatly surprised if Mandino was unfamiliar with it. Googling
"Benjamin Franklin virtue chart" will provide lots of discussion with
anecdotes on the efficacy of the approach.

~~~
avitous
Mandino specifically discusses Franklin's method in Chapter 3 of "The Greatest
Secret In The World"; this is from the Kindle edition thereof, the only one of
Mandino's books I've seen, so I don't know if earlier editions or Mandino's
original book mentioned it.

------
gecko4
Does anyone else find it a little obnoxious that ryan waggoner insists on
posting every one of his blog posts on HN? If that's what I wanted, I'd just
subscribe to his RSS feed.

~~~
ryanwaggoner
First, I don't post all of my posts. It might seem that way because I blog
every day, but out of the 21 or so blog posts that I published in November,
I've submitted exactly four to HN. And only two have made the homepage.

Second, if people don't find it useful or engaging, they'll stop upvoting it.

------
abp
Should i say: [http://www.amazon.com/Pragmatic-Thinking-Learning-
Refactor-P...](http://www.amazon.com/Pragmatic-Thinking-Learning-Refactor-
Programmers/dp/1934356050/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1290629778&sr=8-1)

The book: [http://pragprog.com/titles/ahptl/pragmatic-thinking-and-
lear...](http://pragprog.com/titles/ahptl/pragmatic-thinking-and-learning)

A mindmap that describes the contents pretty well:
<http://media.pragprog.com/titles/ahptl/MindMapWeb.png>

The remainders of "The Greatest Secret in the World" replaced with exercices
and pieces about being more aware of many essential skills. Through the
exercises and losely coupled chapters, you can learn some core disciplines of
the whole human race.

Let me explain.

It's like a manual for the simplest things in live like control about
yourself, how the brain works, performance in any situation and so on. It
makes a real difference for you, once you have understood and practiced for a
while. But it is worth the effort.

Books are like a stream of knowledge, when they are really packed to the
smallest possible pieces of text. The first read through is an enjoyment of
well written text and assembled graphics, tips and exercises. But when you
work while you read it gets even better.

Riding a bycycle is a pretty good metaphor on the whole thing. You need to
learn how to ride a bike. So you need a bike.

I assume you already have a brain, since you are reading this.

Then you probably want to know how it works and evolves, in many details and
exercises? One chapter. Go for it.

It reads closely to the offense of structure of very well written code, but in
human readable text.

This is my opinion and i'd like to hear from others what they think, by all
means. :)

------
johnohara
I reject the term 'brainwash' and choose instead to replace it with 'creative
visualization.' A technique familiar to most serious athletes and the
rationale behind the word 'training.'

The thinking is simple: Visualize your goal in full detail before you actually
create it. Edwin Moses' '13 steps' rule is a perfect example.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Moses>

In this regard, it's not that far from 'The Law of Attraction.' Through
discipline, hard work, patience, and confidence, the goal approaches you as
you approach it.

------
x0ner
I can only imagine that if you are writing a post about the book that you did
in fact read the passages as recommended. I personally am curious however if
you ever reached a point of skimming? I am not sure if I could see the benefit
in re-reading the same thing over and over. Yes, it instills the point their
trying to make, but at what point is it overkill? Not to discredit it, but it
reminds me of the whole process people with anxiety take to calm themselves
down..."It will all be fine", "I am ok", "Things are out of my control", etc.

------
phugoid
My grandfathers managed to get their work done, all of it, without chanting
mantras on a schedule. One of them was a farmer and part-time blacksmith, the
other a cod fisherman.

~~~
Evgeny
May have something to do with starving if the job was not done. Quite a strong
motivator. Not sure if it's a good thing or not, but not many of us will
literally starve if we do not get some of our job done, so being sloppy does
not have severe negative consequences.

~~~
phugoid
That's exactly what I was shooting at. I realize that my occasional apathy is
a great luxury that my grandparents didn't have.

I find inspiration in knowing that I am a stone's throw away from real
hardship.

------
joakin
I would seriously consider acquiring an audio version

~~~
eru
Or make your own.

------
gordonbowman
Great post Ryan. Curious, do you think it would be more helpful to repeat
statements like these or questions that make you think?

In other words, which of these repeated daily would have more of an effect on
self discipline:

“Today, I will multiply my value a hundredfold." vs. "What am I doing today to
multiply my value by a hundredfold?"

~~~
jakerocheleau
I think the latter is a more advanced form of the original. The first is just
a statement. The 2nd assumes the statement to already be true, you're just
examining the possibilities of how to manifest it's "trueness".. for lack of a
better word.

~~~
gordonbowman
I would agree. It begins to make one think of the "how" behind it.

------
jcw
The Greatest Salesman in the World is still being published, I have a copy
sitting on my bookshelf right now. It was a gift, and I never read it. If
anyone knows, what are the difference between the two?

------
mkrecny
Maybe I'm a big softie, but does anyone else think that some of the images
used in the excerpt are overly aggressive?

"blow of my blade against a mighty oak" "the ant who devours a tiger"

I'm not sure such images would inspire me.

------
kadavy
Does anyone know if there is a plugin for this HN upvote message? I love it:
<https://skitch.com/kadavy/rb5pk/hn-upvote>

------
karlzt
just put it on the pirate bay.

------
khkwang
Scroll I Today I begin a new life. Only principles endure and these I now
possess..For what is success other than a state of mind? Which two, among a
thousand wise men, will define success in the same words; yet failure is
always described but one way. 'Failure is man’s inability to reach his goals
in life, whatever they may be.'

Scroll II I will greet this day with love in my heart. And how will I act? I
will love all manners of men for each has qualities to be admired even though
they be hidden. With love I will tear down the wall of suspicion and hate
which they have built round their hearts and in its place will I build bridges
so that love may enter their souls.

Scroll III I will persist until I succeed. Nor will I allow yesterday’s
success to lull me into today’s complacency, for this is the great foundation
of failure. I will forget the happenings of the day that is gone, whether they
were good or bad, and greet the new sun with confidence that this will be the
best day of my life. So long as there is breath in me, that long will I
persist. For now I know one of the greatest principles of success; if I
persist long enough, I will win.

Scroll IV I am nature’s greatest miracle. Since the beginning of time never
has there been another with my mind, my heart, my eyes, my ears, my hands, my
hair, my mouth. None that come tomorrow can walk and talk and move and think
exactly like me. All men are my brothers yet I am different from each. I am a
unique creature.

Scroll V I will live this day as if it is my last. And if it is my last, it
will be my greatest monument. This day I will make the best day of my life.
This day I will drink every minute to its full. I will savor its taste and
give thanks. I will maketh every hour count and each minute I will trade only
for something of value.

Scroll VI Today I will be the master of my emotions. And how will I master my
emotions so that every day is a happy day, and a productive one? I will learn
this secret of the ages: Weak is he who permits his thoughts to control his
actions; strong is he who forces these actions to control his thoughts.

Scroll VII I will laugh at the world. And with my laughter all things will be
reduced to their proper size. I will laugh at my failures and they will vanish
in could of new dreams; I will laugh at my successes and they will shrink to
their true value.

Scroll VIII Today I will multiply my value a hundredfold. One grain of wheat
when multiplied a hundredfold will produce a hundred stalks. Multiply these a
hundredfold, ten times, and they will feed all the cities of the earth. Am I
not more than a grain of wheat?

Scroll IX I will act now. My procrastination which has held me back was born
of fear and now I recognize this secret mined from the depths of all
courageous hearts. Now I know that to conquer fear I must always act without
hesitation and the flutters in my heart will vanish. Now I know that action
reduces the lion of terror to an ant of equanimity.

Scroll X Guidance. Never will I pray for the material things of the world…only
guidance will I pray, that I may be shown the way to acquire these things, and
my prayer will always be answered. ---

From wikipedia.

------
JanezStupar
It seems like a "poor man's" or lazy guy's autogenic training.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autogenic_training>

Did it for quite awhile. And I got great results, amongst them: lucid
dreaming, increased focus, reduced anxiety. I used to race downhill bikes at
the time - and autogenic training combined with autosuggesty actually helped
me reach previously inconceivable levels of performance.

What the book and the article gets wrong (and probably most people who are
trying it) is the time frame in which you perform your training.

You absolutely _must not_ think in past or future tense. Form the mantra in
_present_ \- it doesn't matter if the statements don't sound right. Present
yourself with affirmative thoughts and you will get considerably confident and
motivated about your goals.

Before races I would repeat in my mind(speaking or murmuring is even better):
_I am well trained. I am well prepared for the task ahead of me. I know the
track. I am calm. My heart rate is low. I am a champion. On this track I am
the dog to beat._ \- while visualizing the track and breathing slowly.

You see I learned this while suffering grave lack of self esteem due to insane
levels of preparation and training that left me lacking _any_ considerable
results. I also suffered due to lack of acknowledgement of my skill from other
riders. And then I came across this writing that proposed that Ego does need
to get stroked and patted for confidence. BUT that it is not necessary for
other people to do it, any kind of encouragement works - even self induced.
This is a case where _build it and they will come_ actually works.

~~~
jacquesm
> and autogenic training combined with autosuggesty actually helped me reach
> previously inconceivable levels of performance.

You keep using that word 'inconceivable', I don't think you understand what it
means ;)

Why was it inconceivable that you could achieve such levels of performance if
you then actually went about and achieved them ?

~~~
JanezStupar
When you have low self esteem the only thing you know is that you can't do
shit, you may work as hard as you want. Like Henry Ford said: "Whether you
think you can, or you think you can't--you're right."

So I just wanted to say that for me, using a psychological tool (a hack if you
will) really worked.

------
u48998
The black Friday bug seems to have hit HN. Two purchasing suggestions in two
days with loads of social comments (making it enticing of course).

So why do we celebrate Thanksgiving?

~~~
arethuza
So you chaps really do celebrate Thanksgiving - I thought it was just a plot
element in sitcoms...

~~~
space-monkey
Well, if by "celebrate" you mean "eat a lot of food", then yes!

------
shadowsun7
Remind me: why is this on the frontpage of HN, again?

~~~
eru
Because there are loads of slackers reading HN, who'd like to change.

Now go back to work!

------
Alleyfield
Why couldn't I just make a little book for myself that would include
inspirational quotes from my own personal heroes and just read them out aloud
them every day?

I mean seriously... That example scroll just seemed kinda tootsy wootsy, some
might even say "gay", like in a harry-potter-fantasy-world kind of way.

~~~
ryanwaggoner
You could. And probably should. I've thought about doing that myself, as I
have no shortage of quotes and inspirational passages that I have collected
from my readings over the years. But this book was a good place to start, and
while corny, I found the message to be solid.

Hey, this might do absolutely nothing for you, which is fine. Like I said, I
found it helpful and I perceive a difference in my attitudes and behaviors
after spending a year with this book. But that's just me.

~~~
Alleyfield
I already have one. :)

I didn't question whether this book has worked for you or not, it's good if it
has and more power to you.

It's about the reader's own attitude towards it. If you really believe in
those passages (which, based on the passage, seem to be written like
horoscopes) then of course they're going to work for you. Just like horoscopes
magically seem to work into every situation.

In my humble honest opinion, advice like "I will persist until I succeed" just
creates train wrecks. Especially when repeated 75 times in a month. I also
believe that self help books like this one tend to cloud the reader's
judgement and inflate their egos - which is not nice.

