
Show HN: Koonchi – Convert Photo to Hand-Painted Painting by Artists from India - OrganicQuote
https://koonchi.com
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vldr
Interesting concept. Went to look and scrolled through the page to see the
different styles/prices.

And then my entire view got blocked by some large wheel of fortune.

At that point, as with those email begging popups, I lose all attention,
realize I have better stuff to do and click away.

~~~
kkarakk
[https://apps.shopify.com/lucky-spin-wheel](https://apps.shopify.com/lucky-
spin-wheel) it costs 4 bucks a month...i don't know enough about lead
generation to comment about whether it works but damn it's irritating. it's
like when you goto a real world store and there is an upfront price and a
price you get after haggling- except it's hidden behind RNG

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spectramax
Could you please share the story about how you started such a wonderful
business? Specifically, I am curious of how did you go about lobbying artists
and convincing them to get onboard? Are they local artists in your town or are
you doing it remotely?

~~~
namanyayg
I don't think it's challenging to convince an artist, they'd be happy to do
this work at these costs. Finding artists is a bigger problem, and I'd guess
they solved it by knowing someone with ancestry from a painting-oriented
village community.

~~~
OrganicQuote
Artists do recommend other artists. Most artists we come across is through
artist recommendation.

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jchallis
I treasure a photo I had Instapainted of my wife and daughter (this definitely
came from Xiamen). Glad to see you bringing joy to more people

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yingw787
Sounds a lot like instapainting.com, except artists come from India instead of
China. Also sounds like the model works :) Best of luck!

~~~
dymk
I'm looking at InstaPainting, and their website claims:

    
    
        MADE IN USA BY AMERICAN ARTISTS
    

And I can't find any mention of China.

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namanyayg
I can concur with OP, I'm certain instapainting had Chinese artists at some
point of time. Maybe they found the higher costs of native artists to offset
shipping costs from China and changed their model.

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tlarkworthy
Yes there is a big blog about how they set it up with an artist city in China
[https://www.instapainting.com/blog/company/2015/10/28/how-
to...](https://www.instapainting.com/blog/company/2015/10/28/how-to-
paint-10000-paintings/)

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cm2012
I just made an order (to Glen Oaks, NY). One concern is that at checkout the
picture I uploaded flipped sideways. Maybe consider a crop/rotate option for
the picture once you choose picture size?

~~~
foreigner
Just flip the painting sideways when you get it back.

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Rainymood
Super awesome, I had this idea as well but the hard part is in the execution!
I'm rooting for your success!

~~~
OrganicQuote
Thank you so much! We are trying hard to bring as many talented artists as
possible under one roof.

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namanyayg
Loses out in both style and cost when compared to InstaPainting (where this is
definitely derived from) but good effort, hope this improves livelihoods of
Indian artists. What percentage of the share actually goes to them?

~~~
chrischen
Founder of Instapainting here! We were actually far from the first in this
space as well (there were incumbents at the top of the Google search ranks
from the mid to early 2000s).

As for Instapainting, when ordering and requesting an artist directly, our fee
is 26%, unless the artist quotes lower than our base pricing in which case our
fee is the difference.

We have artists from India too! [http://instapainting.com/gallery/made-in-
india](http://instapainting.com/gallery/made-in-india)
[https://www.instapainting.com/artists/sunny](https://www.instapainting.com/artists/sunny)
[https://www.instapainting.com/artists/lavdeep](https://www.instapainting.com/artists/lavdeep)

We put you in direct contact with the artist and you can view your artwork
through our website and collaborate directly

~~~
cdubzzz
This is a Show HN. I’m sure the poster would greatly appreciate feedback from
someone with experience like yours, not an advertisement for your own service.

~~~
chrischen
Of course! If they are reading this feel free to email me anytime (email in
profile) for feedback or advice.

It looks like this is an MVP setup on shopify and is exactly how it should be
started to test the waters. There's no reason not to start simply because
Instapainting, etsy, or countless other sites exist already, but it does mean
the grind is going to be long and hard (I've just been slowly iterating since
2014 and unbeknownst to me there were dozens of incumbents even back then) and
unlikely to be VC-backed in this space. I've seen many come and go as most
upstarts in this space find the revenue and profits unimpressive—this is
honestly the biggest reason why most fail.

Getting press is generally hard because the idea isn't technically new, and
people don't like to write about it as-is as it's too commercial.

SEO should be the main focus, as any such sites that don't rank on Google will
quickly find ad-driven user acquisition costs to drive down the already thin
margins too much.

I would also be prepared and iterate and implement a more robust tech based
platform off this initial traction as quickly as possible. I honestly don't
think there's much room in the space in the future for plain middlemen in this
space between Instapainting and Etsy being available that enable direct artist
participation. We look like we just forward orders over to artists but artists
are basically running the show now on Instapainting, and we just try to
surface the best performing ones.

~~~
rishav_sharan
Love the fact how helpful you are being in a post about a potential rival.

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keyle
You had me at "spin the wheel of discount".

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jrockway
I was surprised that they didn't say "only 1 left at this price!" and have a
chatbot pop up to say "click here to buy my book on dark patterns!"

I went looking through the code to see if the "wheel of discount" always gives
a discount (it should, of course), but couldn't find it. There is a lot of
Javascript on that website. So it goes, I guess.

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anonu
I'm sure there's a market for this. But I'm not in it.

If I want to buy a painting, I'm looking for technique, style, color usage,
materials usage, ability to craft a message and convey a mood. The individual
artist and their story matters to me. A facsimile of a digital photo is
probably not what I'm looking for.

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redka
I almost bought something from them but was met (at the very end of the whole
process) with a huge standard shipment fee even though the FAQ said the
shipment is free. Apparently there's a minimum amount that you have to pay to
qualify for the free shipment

~~~
trextrex
It says clearly in the FAQs that free shipping is only in India and for orders
above Rs. 15000.

~~~
redka
Well they just added it after my email. Didn't say that before

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feiss
I wonder how much is the share the painters get..

~~~
gridlockd
All the difficulty in art is in the selling, so commissions are high.

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craftoman
That's the future ladies and gentlemen. Creating AI algorithms that can mimic
human creativity and sell them as art. Image what can be achieved in the next
few years, art will be like the organic foods. It may have the stamp on the
package but many farmers are cheating. (especially in Eastern Europe)

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asdjlkadsjklads
Interesting! On that note, is there a service like this to request drawings
not from photos? Maybe with early sketch phases to suss out the specifics
before committing to the final iteration?

I've got some work i've been wanting to commission, but i'm not sure on where
best to find an artist

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umeshunni
Depends on the domain, but I had luck with Fiverr for converting rough
drawings to renders.

~~~
VectorLock
Got any examples?

~~~
umeshunni
Someone like this: [https://www.fiverr.com/sunnyadi/professionally-vectorize-
you...](https://www.fiverr.com/sunnyadi/professionally-vectorize-your-logo-or-
graphic-or-
image?context_referrer=search_gigs&source=main_banner&ref_ctx_id=6ad50acf-6cac-4afd-
bfb2-6929a403018a&pckg_id=1&pos=2&context_type=auto&funnel=32f38568-40b5-4401-ab92-5270b5ba51a2)

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cauliflower2718
I initially thought this was a deep learning style transfer project for quite
a while. What a surprise!

~~~
arketyp
In the end, maybe not that different.

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rajekas
My earlier comment met with some resistance, so let me try to get some more
downvotes by stating my objections once again and more comprehensively.

I should say I have nothing against the premise of the business - if it
provides livelihood to traditional craftspeople (or just talented artists of
any kind) more power to you.

However, you are not making it easy for me to believe that you have the
artist's best interests in mind. Let me count the reasons why:

1\. Not a single individual artist or craftsperson is mentioned anywhere on
the site. I don't know about you, but when I hear the term "artist," I think
of an individual with a specific way of looking at the world. Absolutely every
Indian artist and craftsperson I know has a desire to see their individuality
recognized. You claim to be sourcing artists but you don't recognize their
personhood anywhere. That's rather strange don't you think? It's possible that
during the portraiture itself a bond is established between the representer
and the representee but that's not the case on your site. It's an easily added
feature if you're serious.

[EDIT] - as another commenter pointed out, there's a byline for each artist so
what I said above is flawed. I still think you would be better off
highlighting the artist's vision in more detail. For example, did artist X
make the portrait in style Y - Suprio for Ballpoint Magic for example? If so,
why aren't the portraits signed? Why choose to anonymize them at every stage?
Otherwise it looks as if you are choosing to stroke the vanity of a
western/affluent Indian audience.

2\. Every Indian state and linguistic community has artistic traditions.
Madhubani is different from Company painting is different from Mughal
paintings. None of these traditions are even mentioned. In fact, there's no
evidence that any Indian aesthetic tradition matters at all. Instead, what you
have are generic categories - "the vision lure" \- without connection to
artistic traditions of any culture.

3\. Then there's the origin story - "the idea was hatched when so and so were
sipping coffee and discussing the works of Raja Ravi Verma in the historical
city of Udaipur." At the very least that suggests an intimate connection
between Raja Ravi Varma and Udaipur, especially if you aren't Indian. Except
that RRV lived out his life in Kerala, far away from Udaipur and from a very
different artistic and cultural milieu. If you had started the story with
Tantric paintings [1] that are still produced anonymously in Rajasthan (just
like your artists) I would have taken notice.

Suppose I went to a cafe in Stockholm, discussed the "da Vinci code" with a
friend and decided to start a business in Italian greeting cards made for cut
rates by unknown artists in Neapolitan neighborhoods (in between assignments
for the 'ndrangheta, if you want to add some mystery to the whole process)- in
what way would that be beneficial to European art?

[1] [http://sigliopress.com/book/tantra-
song/](http://sigliopress.com/book/tantra-song/)

~~~
OrganicQuote
All our paintings are shipped with artist signature on it. Also a brief about
the artist is mentioned in the description.

We don’t sell traditional Indian paintings, so don’t know why should we
mention the connection at all between traditional Indian arts and our
paintings just because the company and artists are from India.

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contingencies
Missing option for charcoal.

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chias
This looks phenomenal, I'll be placing an order later today. Congratulations
to you and your team, I hope this succeeds past your expectations :)

~~~
OrganicQuote
thank you so much! :)

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tminima
I like the name. Koonchi means painting brush which were used in India in the
olden days.

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ZoomZoomZoom
It really saddens me that there's a market for this. Especially knowing from
personal experience the prices real art goes for in a traditional market
(hint: borderline offensive). Marketers will keep underlining the shiny bits
("artists set their prices"), but in the end the business is farming, not art.

~~~
yingw787
I’m not sure there’s anything intrinsically bad about this kind of service. I
asked a friend who does graphics for NPR and the New Yorker whether she feels
any attachment to her pieces, and she said it’s just work in the end. Not all
software is just made to be beautiful either; for many of us here software is
just work too.

I have a feeling art prices (particularly contemporary art) are inflated in
part due to their being Veblen goods (high prices make it attractive), or
otherwise a vehicle for value retention like diamonds and gold; see price
differences between forgeries and the real thing.

And of course, we all know Adolf Hitler was rejected for art school and took a
different job instead, and the world might be a better place if this service
existed back then.

~~~
ZoomZoomZoom
Sorry, but I'm not following you. Nothing you said after the first sentence
proves your point, as I see it.

> I’m not sure there’s anything intrinsically bad about this kind of service

These services of course provide some value: they are easy to find/stumble on,
they free customers of excessive choice, allowing them to not be actively
interested in art and collapsing everything to simple "choose your style"
option, they free customers of direct communications with artists, they
arbitrage prices between different geographical markets.

On the other hand, these services compete with traditional artists, they
devalue regular artworks in the minds of common potential customers AND
further reinforce the thinning of the line between art and prints one buys in
a furniture store.

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snek
plot twist: it's a cluster of servers running deep dream

~~~
jonplackett
I just assumed that was what it was and only realised it wasn’t from this
comment.

~~~
chrischen
We don't use deep dream, but a CNN to power our Instant Preview Tool:
[http://instapainting.com/assets](http://instapainting.com/assets)

~~~
frequentnapper
I don't understand. Your website is instapainting, which is different from the
one posted. Why are you fielding questions on their behalf and linking to your
site?

~~~
jpatokal
Because their site is relevant to the question asked?

~~~
frequentnapper
how so? it's specifically asking the poster about a process. Then some other
service is telling them about their own process while advertising their site,
which is also a direct competitor to theirs.

~~~
chrischen
The OP was joking about the plot twist but as it turns out we actually did the
plot twist! We released one of the first free to try deep-learning powered
photo to painting service shortly after the paper was published in 2015:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10162121](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10162121).
The initial version was a general one that took 1 day to train each image
uploaded, and worked on arbitrary images.

That being said I think your belief somehow these comments shouldn't be used
to promote competitors—at the expense of hiding potentially relevant comments
from the community—is misguided. Ultimately HN, and even Show HN, are here to
serve the interests of the community first—not the poster. I personally always
appreciate when reading "launch HN" when someone summarizes the competitive
landscape because this information helps me, the community member, and so that
HN doesn't simply become a PR channel for every startup. It would make sense
if this were an actual advertisement (say, on Facebook) that you'd get rid of
comments mentioning competitors, but this isn't an ad platform, and I think
mentioning competitors contributes to the discussion around what is being
launched. Comments and discussion should benefit the community first, and not
the poster of the story.

~~~
asavadatti
I hear you and I agree with you. HN shouldn't be a PR channel for your startup
and the community benefits from talking about the competitive landscape. Your
other comments about your margins and business model were quite insightful to
me.

However having said that, it does feel like you are hijacking this thread. You
have linked to your own website multiple times, advertised your own competing
Indian artist services, and you are even answering questions that were posed
to the OP. That, in my opinion, is a step too far. Your thoughts on "Community
First" come across as a tad hypocritical as you seem to be doing plenty of PR
for your own service. This may have not been your intention but that is what
it is coming across as.

~~~
chrischen
> You have linked to your own website multiple times, advertised your own
> competing Indian artist services, and you are even answering questions that
> were posed to the OP

Yes I did answer a question technically posed to Koonchi, though they also
directly mentioned Instapainting in the comment. In other areas I replied when
Instapainting was mentioned and/or to clarify some outdated facts such as that
there are also Indian artists on our platform that compete with Koonchi
(someone implied we only had Chinese artists).

I'm not saying that HN shouldn't be used for PR, or promoting your own
business (in fact it should be and is what show HN is for), but this channel
isn't a PR channel exclusively for a single startup.

As for this direct thread, it doesn't seem like Koonchi provides deep-learning
powered photo to painting services, which is something we _do_ provide and why
I felt it was relevant to the discussion of the commenter.

I can see why it looks like hijacking, especially the wording of some of the
other commenters (who are unaffiliated with me or Instapainting) that
commented and inserted "ads" for Instapainting well before I even woke up in
the day. But I tried to only add to what was already there, because I'm also
running a business after all.

As you may have noted already I've posted about Instapainting on HN many times
before as well, and have always gotten other competitors mentioning their
businesses in the comments, and I have never nor would ever question them on
why they are "advertising" their businesses on my thread—because it's not
actually "my" thread. I hope that offers a perspective window into why I
responded or joined the discussion. I've been doing this for about 5 years now
and also part of the HN community since pre-2011. It would just feel a bit odd
for me to stay silent when a near identical business launches and for me to
not offer any feedback.

