
Jolla C, a new Sailfish OS phone from Jolla - anttiviljami
https://jolla.com/jollac/
======
sametmax
I was using a dumb phone and a change of life made me need a smartphone. A
friend of mine encouraged me to get a Jolla.

I liked the idea, Open Source, you can code your app in Python, compatible
with Android apps, etc.

At the begining, I was very tolerant with the quirks of the phone, being a
FOSS believer and all.

But after months and months of use, I'm getting more and more frustrated with
it:

    
    
        - it's slow.
        - apps randomly crashes or don't start at all.
        - Android support is limited.
        - network is unreliable.
        - the performances don't allow any decent Web 
          surf experience, and I already hate the Web 
          on mobile so it makes things irritating for me.
        - it requires a lot of fiddling to adapt it to 
          your needs. It can be good if you need customization, 
          but some basic stuff (such as emoji) are not included by
          default. Some might consider that a feature, but when 
          a girl text me a smiley when I flirt with her, I want to 
          know what face it has because it kinda condition 
          my next answer.
        - some bugs are incredibly annoying. The worst being 
          the poor handling of group text messages which lead 
          to very confusing conversations. A smartphone that
          can't text, really?
        - ergonomy is lacking at best. While I think there 
          are some neat ideas, the hidden menu for simple tasks, 
          the absence of resize in some picture mode and the 
          presence of it in others and plenty other subtle 
          details make it cumbersome to use even for basic 
          stuff. The color scheme and overall design is 
          not a good fit on the long run.
    

I do like having a real GNU system and a terminal to play with it on my phone,
but let's face it, I use the Web/GPS/Text more than the terminal, and they are
not decent for a 2016 experience.

It's where smarphones were 5 years ago, but with bugs.

I don't regret I bought it, it was a nice experience, but now I'm going for
something that will just work.

~~~
fractallyte
I got my phone (probably one of the last) in February. I can't agree with
_any_ of your points - not a single one! This Jolla phone is superb: fast
(including web browsing), reliable, easy to use, with support for all the
Android apps I'm interested in.

My only complaint is that the software (Sailfish OS) is let down by the
hardware. I wish Jolla had been brave enough to gamble with the Mirasol
display; too late now, since Apple's acquired the tech (and will probably do
awesome things with it).

With my bluetooth keyboard, I'm happy playing with emacs (Slime and SBCL), and
hopefully soon Erlang - all through a native terminal. For lightning fast web
browsing, I use Links2. I certainly can't do any of this on an Apple device,
and Android - is it possible? I'll never know - I'm spoilt with my Jolla.

~~~
sametmax
I just mesured. Between the moment you click the native browser (not even
Firefox, which I use), and the moment you can start write a tweet, there is a
gap of 23 seconds. 23 seconds to display a web page on a fresh system with no
other app running. This is insane.

It is made much worse by the fact you can't open many apps at the same time.
The OS frequently keels app you don't use, so you have to regularly wait
another 23 second all other again if you multitask.

~~~
fractallyte
I counted less than 10 seconds to Twitter on my phone. That's with one other
app running. I can open many apps simultaneously, although I rarely go past 6
or 7.

So clearly there _are_ differences between phone models (if indeed my phone
has some minor upgrades over previous ones), and/or OS versions.

~~~
bruce_one
I don't _think_ the hardware's changed?

My thought would be to try a btrfs balance (can be done through one of the
menus); or trying to free some space from the internal storage.

It made a large difference in how the performance felt on mine last time I did
so. (A bit sad that it's often required, the fs is one of the main pain points
ime.)

(For reference, mine took ~15 seconds, but think that about 5 of that was
network related -- because the browser was open and responsive at the 10
second mark. Had 4 other apps open at the time.)

------
bruce_one
Very surprised, I hadn't anticipated this happening.

(Irrationally excited too.)

I'd assumed that after the tablet fiasco that Jolla wouldn't be doing any
hardware for a long time. (I'm not personally grumpy in any way, but I think
fiasco is the most accurate word :-s )

I'd been holding out hope for an official Fairphone 2 deal (or even the
Puzzlephone), but this is awesome :-)

~~~
chappi42
It's a 'super-pity' that the tablet failed. I have one and like it a lot!

(<3 to jolla for trying to provide a more open and friendly ecosystem, wish
you were a billion-euro-strong company)

------
simondelacourt
I really do not anymore understand Jolla. I have bought a Jolla Phone in the
past followed by backing the tablet. The phone started slowly to annoy me more
and more, mainly because of the subpar processor and the lack of memory (I had
to keep killing apps to keep my browser handy). Android support is okay but
notifications get delayed from time to time (for hours)...

Jolla said to focus more on the software, and now they come up with this?!

I really don't get this. The specs are subpar, the unique selling points (no
bloatware, premium jolla support) are no different than before, and it is all
made even weirder to get the product via this first come first serve idea with
only a 1000 phones.

Jolla has been criticized that they are crappy at opening up and telling the
real deal. They really are. In the months following the tablet debacle the
updates were just crappy. It was until the rebate email (with a link to get
fill in your details) that I discovered that I would actually get a tablet.
Somehow it was too complicate to tell the first 1000 backers per email that
they would get a tablet.

Jolla, get your communication act together. If you want to get people to
believe in you explain your motives, explain your ideas of how the future
would be. Skip the marketing bullshit, your target audience is not that much
interested in hollow PR words. Be sincere, open and direct. Understand that
people might be disappointed and explain the relevance of the Jolla C. But
don't just act like nothing happened.

~~~
catwell
The way I understand it, it is a developer phone, something for people who do
not have a Sailfish device yet and want to work on apps or the OS itself while
the Intex device is in the works.

------
catwell
Signed up. I had backed the tablet but since it failed I never had an
opportunity to try Jolla for real, this will be it.

I really think we need an alternative to the Android / iOS duopoly and I hope
this is it.

------
mullsork
Any Jolla/Sailfish users out there that could shed some light on their
impressions so far? I'm reluctant to switch to Android or iOS but I will need
to switch out my phone real soon.

~~~
gulpahum
It has a bit unusual user interface. They designed it to be usable by one
hand, but I think they just ended up with a bit messy UI. It takes some time
to get used to and some features are not easy to discover (like the top
sliding menu or the context menu on list items).

It runs its own native Sailfish apps (there's few hundred of them) and Android
apps (you can install Google Play, if you follow a bit cumbersome
instructions). However, the UI logic in native apps is different than in
Android apps. Native apps use a lot of wiping gestures, while Android apps use
more tapping and the back button.

There is also a native web browser (built on top of Gecko) and it has its own
UI logic (the usual web browser logic with a back button, no gestures).

So, all together, it has three way to navigate, which makes the whole
experience a bit fragmented.

But, if you want to escape the surveillance riddled Android and iPhone, Jolla
is a good basic phone. It offers a lot for hackers, because its built on top
of Linux and you have access to almost everything without rooting. I got my
phone three years ago and I'm still getting OS updates regularly, which is
also nice. I just wish the UI was better.

~~~
mullsork
Thanks for the writeup. I wouldn't mind having a very hackable phone I
suppose. Does one need Linux to enjoy it at its fullest, or is OSX also okay?

~~~
gulpahum
They have an SDK built on top of Qt Creator and it runs on OS X, Windows and
Linux [1].

Linux may offer some advantages, such as access to the phone file system. OSX
has a bit cumbersome ways to access it [2].

If you want to write programs for it, you can use Qt C++, QML or Python. It
also has a terminal with the usual bash commands. And, of course, you can
always write Android apps with tools given by Google and run those apps on
Jolla.

As a niche hardware feature, the original Jolla phone has a hackable i2c bus
under its back cover. Some people have tried to build keyboards, e-ink screens
etc. connected to it. The specs for the bus are public [3].

I'm not sure if the new Jolla C is really meant for casual users, because you
need to participate in their community device program to get one.

EDIT: removed some speculations about the community program

EDIT2: looks like the original Jolla phone isn't sold anymore

[1]
[https://sailfishos.org/wiki/Application_SDK_Installation](https://sailfishos.org/wiki/Application_SDK_Installation)

[2] [https://jolla.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201440867-How-
do...](https://jolla.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201440867-How-do-I-
transfer-files-between-a-Mac-and-my-Jolla-)

[3] [http://jolla.com/the-other-half-developer-kit/](http://jolla.com/the-
other-half-developer-kit/)

------
luxpir
I miss my semi-bricked n900. I know one of us always chimes in, but still,
it's true. It was a very functional phone. I need to solder a USB cable onto
the data-pads under the battery to retrieve some data and possibly restore it,
but it served very well for 5 years.

The Ubuntu phone is a tolerable placeholder. A Jolla seems like it would be
just tolerable also (as per sametmax's comments) but I'll have to keep waiting
for something decent _and_ open.

Also still holding out for convergence... Give it another 5 years probably!

~~~
pessimizer
> I need to solder a USB cable onto the data-pads under the battery to
> retrieve some data

You can just rsync to get the data off. That port only needs to work if you
need to reimage, or you only have one battery/don't like swapping batteries
every day..

~~~
luxpir
Thanks, normally that would be OK but I basically apt-get autoremoved some
system utils [0] and the thing wouldn't boot again. Had been so careful for
years, then one careless keystroke and I'd hosed the system. I'd reflash it,
but the re-solder of the usb port finally went and took most of the PCB
connectors with it. And I was careful there too, again for years. So without
booting and without data connectivity, rsync won't be an option.

So it's a case of (I think) soldering a new USB cable into place under the
battery, charging, exfil the data, then reflash to finally have it back in
business. Albeit with a rat-tail hanging out the case.

\--

[0] Never figured out what the utils were, but seem to recall it being part of
a python dependency chain. So autoremove had somehow, probably incorrectly,
thought it was OK to get rid of a key component of some kind. It was the power
kernel with a bunch of mods, so probably my own fault somewhere along the
line.

~~~
pessimizer
I hear you. I hate that neither N900 nor Jolla can just have mainline boring
Debian with normal boring updates, but instead have to be Frankenstein's
monsters filled with proprietary blobs and /opt-ified nonsense. If you do
anything slightly strange, apt-get turns dangerous.

I would say to make sure that you have all of the Maemo images saved
somewhere, and know where the repos currently reside. I just reimaged another
N900 and got it current in order to avoid dealing with _its_ broken USB port,
and it's starting to become a bit of an ordeal. t.m.o. is dying...

~~~
wicket
> I hate that neither N900 nor Jolla can just have mainline boring Debian with
> normal boring updates

The N900 can. Shameless plug:
[https://github.com/dderby/debian900/](https://github.com/dderby/debian900/)

------
Shugyousha
I would love to have a Sailfish OS phone but if they are not Open Sourcing
their UI libraries I can't convince myself to buy it.

It's a real shame because all I want is a fast, simple OpenSource phone OS
(that is as responsive as iOS). AOSP is okay but it does not feel as snappy as
when I tried iOS for which I blame Dalvik. There are not a lot of contenders,
only Tizen, Ubuntu Phone and plasma mobile. I hope one of them will be
installable on the Fairphone 2 in the near future...

~~~
fractallyte
If Jolla open sourced their UI technology, what would happen to the company
and investors? And would Sailfish OS then be fated to suffer endless
fragmentation, like Android?

There's nothing terribly wrong with the closed parts of this system. Much of
the phone is readily accessible to developers, and Jolla provides a lot of
support. It's far more open than Android or iOS.

~~~
pencilmark
Sorry to use this thread but I'm interested in the Windows version of Living
Cels you mentioned in another thread that is now closed. Any chance of
contacting you?

~~~
fractallyte
My email's in my profile!

------
ZenoArrow
The phone looks like a decent all-rounder, but I'd say they've missed out on
one potential killer app.

I'd say the one feature that is game changing for both Jolla and Ubuntu Phone
is being able to run it as a desktop device as well as a phone. If the
hardware supported USB Type C, there'd be no question that this would be my
next phone, even if the desktop functionality wasn't supported at launch it
would be a clear statement of intention.

~~~
pekk
This was Ubuntu's idea and it's telling that even Canonical has abandoned it.

~~~
ZenoArrow
They haven't abandoned it. Mir isn't ready for prime time, I suspect they're
waiting to get that in place before pushing the convergence features forward
further.

------
hypercluster
I'd like for Jolla or Ubuntu to succeed with their phones but I just don't see
it. I fiddled around with an Ubuntu phone for a while but stopped using it
eventually. The basic funtionalities are just not as good or as stable as they
should be. That would be step one. But then, especially with phones, there's a
lot of innovation and those kind of phones just can't keep up.

~~~
Brakenshire
I'm not sure there's all that much innovation in smartphones. Android doesn't
seem to have changed all that much over the past 2-3 years, it seems to have
entered a holding pattern with various small tweaks over that time. I just
looked up Android N, and the first article I got back had some of the top
features as new emoji and keyboard themes! It strikes me that the whole area
is mature and stable, which is great, but it doesn't exactly mean they're
speeding off into the distance.

If they can catch up with basic functionality, web apps continue to develop
and are integrated well, there's decent android app compatibility, and they
can add an extra interesting feature like convergence (which requires that the
next-generation hardware is fast enough), I personally would be quite
enthusiastic to have an Ubuntu phone as my next smartphone.

~~~
hypercluster
True, on OS level not that much. Although things like multitasking, nightshift
etc. are quite neat. Smartwear/watches are something that wouldn't get any
love either.

And yes, web apps need to get better to work. Android compability is nice but
will never be nicely integrated (especially if dependent on Google Services).
And only a fraction will develop native apps.

But convergence is a killer feature, indeed!

------
andridk
I have a Jolla phone, and used it exclusively until it met with the sidewalk
and cracked the screen.

The OS is a breeze to use, even if you're using Android apps.

However after the whole Jolla Tablet fiasco, I am reluctant to buy more from
the company.

------
shmerl
4G/LTE: 1/3/7/20

Does it mean it's incompatible with T-Mobile in US? That's just annoying.
Aren't Qualcomm already making universal modems by now?

~~~
ac29
Yes, it isnt compatible, but this phone isnt being sold in the US.

~~~
shmerl
Did they limit regions? "Not being sold" only means "no warranty" I suppose.
N9 / N950 also weren't officially sold in US, yet they worked just fine.

------
Tharkun
I've given up on Jolla. Their OS got worse with every release. Their hardware
was very sloppy (three dead batteries in a year time, design flaw which
required me to keep a piece of paper under the battery to keep it in place).
Their support was god awful. The only way to get my device fixed was to mail
it to Finland and spend over a month without a replacement.

The idea was great. They tried to keep the Maemo spirit alive. But they
failed.

------
t0mk
I am too surprised they did a new phone after the tablet fiasco. I wonder how
it differs from the Intex phone they showed on MWC 2016 in February.

I really wonder if they think about the product name in terms of people who
try to look it up. "jolla" in Finnish also means "on which" (in addition to
"dinghy" or some little boat), which makes it really difficult to look up on
finnish websites.

------
carc1n0gen
Is there a specific reason that both Jolla phones and Ubuntu phones are not
available in Canada, or North America for that matter?

~~~
vertex-four
In North America, all smartphones are sold through a carrier - with very few
exceptions. There's no infrastructure nor any significant consumer demand for
phones sold through other methods, and it might hurt Jolla in the future if
they are seen by carriers as attempting to break their stranglehold over the
market.

People in the rest of the world are a lot more used to paying up-front for a
phone, potentially through a third party, and getting a SIM-only plan.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
I would kill to finally get an Android alternative on Verizon. Good luck with
that though.

------
paride5745
A friend of mine is still waiting for the Tablet or a refund. Honestly, I do
not trust them enough to give them my money.

~~~
hasteur
Also got my first half refund in my paypal acct a few days ago. Since I
promised I would only strongly reccomend not getting a Jolla device for those
conditions, that's what I'm saying.

If you like total linkdark from your manufacturer coupled with emergency
releases of news (because someone else leaked they missed a critical funding
round) that leaves users even more befuddled and calling for clear feedback.

------
deanclatworthy
I worked on the Jolla launch website over three years ago. What ever happened
to "The other half" \- their big idea?

~~~
mpol
It seemed like an interesting way to engage tinkerers/hackers and have people
come up with new ideas.

But it didn't take off really much. There is only a small community, and they
worked years on a half-decent keyboard. For the rest there are just some LED-
based backcovers.

I doubt they will ever try that again.

------
jnmandal
Real bummer that it's only for EU, Finnish and Swiss users right now.

~~~
ptaipale
Norwegian. (Finland is in EU).

------
hathym
evrything was good until Qualcomm 212 !

------
tychuz
Well, it's even less popular than Windows Phone - that's quite an achievement!

~~~
RaleyField
Windows Phone got some traction for being both Windows and because it was made
by Nokia, in comparison Jolla doesn't distinguish itself that much.

------
ensiferum
wow limited edition.... All the 5 people in the world interested in this must
now be worried if they can get one...

