

BYTE Interview With Richard Stallman (1986) - drcube
http://www.gnu.org/gnu/byte-interview.html

======
kilowatt
Wow. I was one year old when this was published.

Stallman's combination of sort-of-maddeningly-precise nerdspeak and
revolutionary zeal has always made me cock my head and listen--if not to every
word, then at least to some of his more apt analogies:

    
    
      "I think it is important to say that information is different from material
      objects like cars and loaves of bread because people can copy it and share it
      on their own and, if nobody attempts to stop them, they can change it and make
      it better for themselves. That is a useful thing for people to do. This isn't
      true of loaves of bread. If you have one loaf of bread and you want another,
      you can't just put your loaf of bread into a bread copier. You can't make
      another one except by going through all the steps that were used to make the
      first one. It therefore is irrelevant whether people are permitted to copy
      it—it's impossible."
    

This idea, if a bit utopian, feels like it has a very fundamental truth about
the future at its core. To me. And this was 1986. I'm not sure that someone
born 50+ years ago who doesn't think about this stuff as much as Stallman
feels it in their gut like I do. My grandfather, who lived through the Great
Depression, might reject it as utter nonsense.

That quote also reminded me of Paul Graham talking about how "files move
around like smells" at his PyCon keynote this year. He was responding to a
semi-panicked question about "how will we make money if we can't charge for
copies of software?!":

    
    
      "If you imagined that we lived like on the moon, and everything--you know, we
      had to get like air in pipes, and paid for the air, right? People could charge
      for smells. People could charge for good smells, right? And so it would seem
      reasonable for smells to be property. But now, you walk by restaurant, and you
      smell this delicious smell, you get this like free boost--for nothing! And
      like, I think the record labels are like these people who are from the moon,
      right? And they used to be able to sell these things because the only way you
      could get them was through their channel. But now, files move around like smells.
      And it's not convenient to charge for them. Ultimately this stuff is
      pragmatic. I realize that doesn't sound very principled, but historically it
      seems to be the way things work."
    

That whole back and forth is transcribed at <https://gist.github.com/3549855>
(And see the press catch up on some of these ideas, too:
[http://www.fastcompany.com/1842581/why-millennials-dont-
want...](http://www.fastcompany.com/1842581/why-millennials-dont-want-to-buy-
stuff) )

~~~
dalke
The reason copyright exists is because the person who created X (a book, a
play, etc) wanted to be paid. The US Constitution describes the reason for
copyright as "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts." The
question then is, if you allow people to copy "information", then do you
reduce progress, because people don't get paid for their work? The answer to
that may be 'no', but it isn't as simple as comparing information to bread.

You might be interested to know of Thomas Jefferson's writings on the topic
(to have "Monopolies may be allowed to persons for their own productions in
literature and their own inventions in the arts for a term not exceeding ___
years but for no longer term and no other purpose." in the Bill of Rights) and
Benjamin Franklin's on patents ("that as we enjoy great advantages from the
inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by
any invention of ours, and this we should do freely and generously"). TJ was
initially opposed to monopolies of any sort, but that changed over time.

I point this out to suggest that these utopian ideas you see have echos even
back into the centuries.

------
acqq
People forget this too:

Stallman: "I have nearly finished the optimizing C compiler and all the other
software that is needed for running C programs. This includes a source-level
debugger that has many features that the other source-level debuggers on Unix
don't have."

He refers to gcc and gdb:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman>

"Stallman has also developed a number of pieces of widely used software,
including the original Emacs,[5] the GNU Compiler Collection,[6] the GNU
Debugger,[7] and various tools in the GNU coreutils.[8]"

That's one successful hacker.

~~~
ta12121
Who forgets that? This is pretty well known.

------
Proleps
I sometimes feel like the world is moving away from the FSF principals more
then it is moving towards it. Nobody seems to be in control of their own
devices, software and data anymore.

Data is stored in the cloud, applications are remotely removed from you're
IPhone, you have to log in to play offline games, phones send all sorts off
personal data to third parties.

This is all happening in a time where free software is easy to get and hard
drives are cheap enough to store all the data you want :(.

~~~
S4M
What is even sadder is that most of the systems that are taking away from the
users the control of their data and applications have been built (at least in
part) thanks to free software.

~~~
Evbn
AGPL is fighting that war.

------
brudgers
How Stallman changed the world:

 _" I decided that rather than spend my time trying to pursue funds, I ought
to spend it writing code."_

------
drcube
I love where he says the kernel is about a year away from being finished. :)

The interviewer mentioned public domain a couple of times, but Stallman
explained how he used copyright+licenses to ensure improvements were passed on
as free software. This is pre-GPL, so it's historically interesting to see the
transition from public domain to GPL free software.

------
sounds
There were all kinds of interesting articles in BYTE. I remember finding a
whole box of them when I was still in grade school - tossed out by the public
library - and I spent the summer reading and memorizing them.

Somehow I missed this interview until now. Cheers, Stallman!

~~~
rbanffy
I've probably failed a couple tests in engineering school (took fluid
mechanics 3 times) because of the time I spent reading the library's almost
complete collection.

BYTE was a magazine for another time, when new didn't mean "the latest,
incrementally faster, x86 architecture capable of running Windows".

Wow... I'm really gloomy today.

~~~
sounds
I hope this cheered you up. :-)

------
rbanffy
Here is another timeless piece: <http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-
read.html>

I recommend this to every teenager I can. Stallman writes great code,
marvelous contracts and pretty decent scifi.

------
RexRollman
I really miss BYTE magazine.

------
jorahmormont
BYTE: What are you going to do when you are done with the GNU system?
Stallman: I'm not sure. Sometimes I think that what I'll go on to do is the
same thing in other areas of software.

He's 60 this year. He was crying on a staircase this year in Spain. Someone
stole his laptop.

~~~
carlesfe
I don't think it's fair to treat him this way.

Except for the kernel, pretty much everything I use is GNU or was inspired by
GNU. From the coreutils to the window environment, passing through the
compiler, most linux systems are half GNU.

Besides, we need activists like Stallman in the same way we need activists
like Peta or activists like Greenpeace. They might be too radical and close-
minded, but they always have a point; they force society to rethink some of
its values, and act as whistle-blowers for some injustices that might go
unnoticed.

~~~
Evbn
Stallman is league different from those, he contributes both valuable product
and coherent legal analysis. His only harm comes in a occasional bitter verbal
lash at his opponents, and how his moral superiority makes compromisers feel
uncomfortable.

