

Need advice - needhelpca

I need some serious advice. I'm a freshman in college right now and having some psychological/other issues. It's kind of complicated, so I don't really want to go into it. Part of it comes from being raised in a strict Asian family and pressure.<p>The thing is, I really can't take being in college anymore (mood swings, irrational fear, etc). I'm thinking about dropping out, even though my dad would almost disown me for it.<p>These psychological issues mostly arose from events in the past year, and aside from that I've been stable. I'm academically smart (2330 SAT, valedictorian) and I like programming. I've done well in my first-year math and CS classes at an Ivy school.<p>I'm wondering if dropping out would really ruin me like my parents say. I hope that I could drop out, pick myself back up, and build something from there. I'm a very hard worker and willing to freelance/open source/learn through books and online tutorials.<p>Edit: My fears aren't completely irrational, and they've been debilitating.<p>I just really need some advice and perspective here. Thanks.
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edomain
I mean this sincerely- you need professional help. Don't make any drastic
decisions until you speak to someone that can help you.

Your school should have healthcare resources available to you at no cost- you
should start there.

Just call them up and say you'd like to schedule an appointment with a
therapist. You don't need to say why- that's between you and the therapist-
there is NOTHING wrong with seeing a therapist- oftentimes just being able to
air your problems to a confidential source can be very liberating.

Please do talk to a professional- you'll feel better, I swear!

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jenius
Certainly agreed with the above.

It's really frustrating to have issues like that - while you can understand
and control logical things, psychology and emotion are not totally logical and
are often out of our control. I'm sure as a smart and logical guy and a
programmer this is something that you can connect to and that has kind of
driven you crazy if you have thought about it.

There's no reason to be embarrassed to seek help - I know a lot of people and
good friends who have done it and it has helped them a lot. Don't let your
smarts and awesome potential go to waste because of an issues like these : )

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jburwell
Based on the description you have provided, it sounds like you have
psychological issues that need to be addressed. Before taking any action, I
suggest you visit your campus health center. They typically offer free
psychological counseling that may be able to help you address the underlying
issues.

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paulsutter
My dad always said that you should make choices based on the thing you want to
-do-, not the thing you want to get away from.

When he was in college he got tired of math so he switched to biology. Well,
that wasnt fun either. Thus the observation. He stuck with biology, began to
love it, and became a great biology professor.

Life is too short to be in a hurry. You can waste calendar years flip flopping
around (ask me - I should know). Take your time, make decisions slowly, make
changes when you're sure. And choose the -right- thing for you, don't make
decisions based on what you want to get away from.

Good luck. You're a smart guy. Slow down. You'll find the right thing.

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needhelpca
I was planning to read a lot of source code, write a lot of code/contribute to
open source, and study formal CS on my own. I think after 3-4 years I would
have as much programming and formal knowledge as if I had stayed in college,
and maybe more. I want to do this and would find it fun.

I'm wondering if the lack of a degree would hold me back significantly. That
seems to be my parent's main worry.

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paulsutter
Having a degree from an Ivy school will help you as compared to an ordinary
degree. I went to a middle of the road state school and I have seen first hand
that many "people who matter" are materially predisposed towards favoring
those with degrees from fancy schools. Some could argue it's rational. I'm
talking about employers, investors, and even in regards to dating.

If you leave school you are likely to find work without too much trouble, but
you'll be somewhat worse off than a guy with a degree from a middle of the
road school. Outside of silicon valley a college dropout may face a greater
headwind than inside silicon valley.

If you can become the next Mark Zuckerberg or Bill Gates, it won't count
against you at all. Notice that they both left school for a very good specific
opportunity.

The best thing about graduating from a great school is the relationships
you'll build with other smart guys. I'm not sure why, but most lifelong
friendships seem to be formed in school. Learning alongside those smart guys
is also highly motivating.

Finally - if you leave school to get away from your parents pressure, you're
letting their actions control your life. You are an adult now. Take charge.
Don't let rebelliousness push you around. Choose carefully, realizing that a
degree from a top school is a good opportunity.

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needhelpca
This is kind of a fear related to financial aid. It's mostly irrational, but
not completely so. And the little part that's not irrational has been
bothering me a lot.

Thanks for the advice about the psychological help. I'll think about talking
to a therapist. Apart from that, how serious would dropping out be? Just from
an economical/career perspective..

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relaunched
Here's the thing, most people out of college can't code in a way that is
meaningful for entry level at a tech firm. You seem to have the aptitude to
get there on your own, but lack the experience / knowledge-base to convince
most companies that you are worth the 3-6 months that are required to teach
you what you need to know. After all, they can always grab someone from the
graduating class of a top school, that has your smarts and more formal
education.

I can't tell you how many MS candidate resumes I've read (CS), where they've
done tons of projects, but there code sucks. That doesn't mean they aren't
really smart and won't be great in a few years, but not now. 400 line
functions (poor OOP), poor commenting, inconsistent naming conventions, poor
memory allocation...the list goes on.

Figure out your issues and work on them. I understand the debt concern, but
your expected value of success and future earnings will be severely limited.
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

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needhelpca
I don't expect to get a job after dropping out. My parents will let me live
with them at least. So I have a good 3-4 years.

I was planning to read a lot of source code, write a lot of code/contribute to
open source, and study formal CS on my own. I think after 3-4 years I would
have as much programming and formal knowledge as if I had stayed in college,
and maybe more.

I'm wondering if the lack of a degree would hold me back significantly.

~~~
tstegart
It doesn't. And remember, you can always go back and finish. Maybe not at the
same place, but you can finish somewhere. I would suggest ending the semester
though, not dropping out in the middle. You get credit for the current
semester this way and you won't have to pay for it again hopefully.

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relaunched
Please seek help of a trusted professional. You have taken a great step in
identifying the issue; now be brave and seek the help you need.

Whatever issue you are facing in college will surely come about again in life.
Trust me on this, college is still very much NOT the real world.

Best of luck and there is no shame in getting psychological help.

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PonyGumbo
First, seriously, go see a therapist before you make any decisions. The fact
that this is happening during your freshman year is disgustingly normal -
everybody goes through a period of adjustment at this point in their lives,
but it's _much_ harder for some (particularly kids who have parents with big
expectations).

Second, you'll survive and probably do just fine if you drop out and self-
study. Having said that, an ivy league education opens doors. I dropped out my
senior year. I'm doing fine financially, but I'm certain that I could have
done much more interesting things if I'd stuck it out.

Remember, your education is for _you_.

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needhelpca
Thanks for the advice. I'll probably go see a therapist.

Since you dropped out your senior year, did you already have significant
internship experience and contacts by then? Did that help you succeed?

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PonyGumbo
No, and I didn't even do anything in my field of study. I feel like I've done
well despite the lack of paper, but as the years have worn on, my reasons for
dropping out sound less and less credible and more and more like excuses. It's
definitely a hindrance in interviews.

You may also want to consider the possibility of transferring to another
school rather than dropping out.

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debacle
Many serious psychological issues manifest in the late teens and early
twenties. I was in an honors program in college, and I saw several students
develop psychological disorders of varying degrees - it may not be because you
are in college that you're having these issues. Schizophrenia and schizo-
effective disorders , specifically, are known to develop in this age range.

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brudgers
This is a health issue, just like any other.

Seek help on your campus or in the community or your family.

Don't make assumptions about your parents' reaction. Again it is a health
issue, and your parents may be your best resource.

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adrianwaj
there was an article today linking gut health with mental health, check it
out:
[http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/03/1...](http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/03/18/mcbride-
and-barringer-interview.aspx)

Also, drop me a line if you want to work on a site I'm building (Django) ..
could be useful for you.

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adrianwaj
Maybe take a half-load of subjects and spend the rest of the time focused on
what you enjoy.

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webbruce
Yeah, definitely schedule an appointment with a counselor to talk it out

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yotamoron
I think that applying to some real work places and test their reactions would
do you good. If they are happy to take you onboard - cool, dropping out
wouldn't be that painful. Sign up the contract before you leave Uni, softening
the shock for your parents (Mom, dad, I quit Harvard BUT started working at
Facebook). If, on the other hand, you find it hard to pass interviews - cool,
your place for the next few years is in Uni, where you will gain some
important knowledge and connections (but do try to have fun - after all,
that's what really matters).

Most of us have been there - one way or another. You are not special or
different in that sense. Life's hard (harder for some) and you might be
needing some professional helping hand now and than (yes, some of us have been
there - too), but ultimately - it's doable, even if there are times were all
you can see is darkness.

As the great Leonard Cohen have said: I greet you from the other side, Of
sorrow and despair. With a love so﻿ vast and shattered, It will reach you
everywhere

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0KnDCVEcp8>

Good luck !

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needhelpca
Thanks for the advice. I'm not someone who's been programming for years.

I just took multivariable calc and intro CS (scheme) this semester. I'm
wondering whether self-teaching is realistic, and whether employers consider
self-taught programmers.

I can get access to books on CS/MIT online courses/Stanford online courses and
study CS. And there's a lot of source code I can read and learn from. Is this
do-able?

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yotamoron
Doable ? sure, but not relevant. Can YOU do it ? that's a question only you
can answer.

Other than that, programming is a craftsmanship. Like any other one, it might
take a few years to master it. A couple of courses in Uni is definitely NOT
what makes you a programmer (or developer or an engineer or whatever)...

