
FlyKly Smart Wheel - BerislavLopac
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/flykly/flykly-smart-wheel
======
noonespecial
FlyKly guys: Welcome to HN. I know that a lot of this thread is going to look
like we're hating on your product. (Personally I think that if you deliver it
with the level of finish you're aiming for, it will be pretty cool). Mostly
we're not, this is how we roll. For geeks, we've got x-ray vision when it
comes to most new technologies so we see right down to the basic principles
(which are almost always simple) right away. These are almost never the most
interesting parts of new product releases but will elicit the predictable _"
pfft, Thomas Edison did it in 1913..."_. Water off a duck.

What we will do is pour our thoughts like water through your product and
ideas. Anything that's not perfectly thought through is going to leak. I hope
you'll take the criticism in the (mostly good) spirit in which its offered and
use it to build a better product.

~~~
zorpner
We're also going to read one sentence of your copy and assume that we know
everything about how it works. We're going to draw a quick conclusion despite
have never developed anything in that space and assert that your product has
fundamental flaws without understanding your research, your market, or your
funding model. We're going to compare your product to previous market failures
despite fundamental differences that actually go so far as the previous
product never having been produced.

But hopefully you'll still be able to get something useful out of this crowd
:D

~~~
noonespecial
Heh. Some of us might. There's no shortage of cynicism to go around, here and
everywhere.

On the other hand, what does the HN crowd say about technologies they really
do find uninteresting and unimportant? Absolutely nothing. They drop right off
the bottom of "NEW" without a single comment.

Edit: And to be fair, most market-speak is so vapid that we often only get one
meaningful line of copy stating the purpose of a thing and a picture showing
us its general physical shape to go on. We have to deduce everything else from
that. In short, we've gotten used to disappointment.

~~~
FlyKly
"On the other hand, what does the HN crowd say about technologies they really
do find uninteresting and unimportant? Absolutely nothing."

This also encourages us in a way, as weird as it sounds. It probably means
we're at least doing _something_ right if everyone is paying so much attention
to it. Thanks!

------
buro9
I was going to join everyone else in this thread in bashing elements of the
design and product, the specifications, etc. But I won't do that.

Instead I'll do the opposite.

I'll point out upfront, I own 5 bikes, I run one of the largest cycling forums
in the world, and I run one of the largest cycling clubs in the UK. I get
cycling.

I like it. The FlyKly.

I like it because it allows a rider to keep their existing bike, and yet to
retrofit for a really reasonable price an electric motor.

I like it because the vast majority of the weight within the wheel isn't a
moving thing, the batteries are fixed.

I like it because the 30 mile range, whilst not suiting my 18 mile commute for
a daily charge, actually does suit the vast majority of cyclists that I know
who only commute fewer than 10 miles.

I like the 1,000 cycles, which is probably 900 in reality, is actually a few
years of use for the average cyclist. Even most cycle commuters don't actually
cycle 7 days a week, and those do diligently do so on all work days only do so
for 220 > 250 days per year.

It hits all of the sweet spots:

1) Can I keep my existing bicycle?

2) Can I just get the electric bit and not pay to replace all of the other
bits I have?

3) Will it just work and be easy to install?

4) Will it help me on my commute?

5) Will it realistically last a couple of years?

6) Is it priced such that I can afford it?

For the majority of cyclists I know, the answer is yes to all of the above.

I think it's got a good chance, which doesn't mean I'll be buying one but then
I'm not your average cyclist.

PS: FlyKly, you show several times the use of the wheel on a brakeless fixed-
gear bike. That's just for the aesthetics right? Or is the wheel fixed
compatible such that you're fine with people skid/skip stopping?

~~~
IanCal
> I like it because the 30 mile range, whilst not suiting my 18 mile commute
> for a daily charge, actually does suit the vast majority of cyclists that I
> know who only commute fewer than 10 miles.

If you can easily remove the wheel, then this isn't much of a problem, they
say it charges in 2-3 hours from a normal socket so you could probably get to
work, plug the wheel in under the desk and have it charged well before you're
going home.

~~~
radiorental
yup, this is what I do with my homemade ebike
[http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2841/10328825565_ef951c4367_b....](http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2841/10328825565_ef951c4367_b.jpg)

fwiw, as a designer I think this team is solving some of the biggest issues
with current ebike design that is holding back wider adoption in the US/UK
markets. Kudos to them, hope they hit a home run.

------
fernly
You need to differentiate from the long-existing BionX hub motors[0] which do
regen braking at user-selectable levels AND allow proper 7, 8 or 9-speed
clusters, unlike the single gear your pictures show.

[0] [http://www.bionxinternational.com/bionx-international-
north-...](http://www.bionxinternational.com/bionx-international-north-
america/products/bike-retrofit-systems/motors/)

Edit: the big differences would be (a) this has the battery integral to the
hub, where the BionX uses a separate battery pack; and (b) that this
communicates to its controller -- your phone -- wirelessly, where the BionX
console[1] connects with a wire.

IMO as owner of a BionX-equipped bike, I'm dubious about whether either
difference is a positive one. For (a), the in-hub battery is clearly size-
limited, can't be removed from the bike for charging indoors, and would be
harder to replace.

As for (b), is it really a good idea to require a smartphone to be attached to
your handlebars whenever you ride? That's not an easy environment, it has a
lot of vibration as well as exposure to water, dust, and sweat. A minor point,
the BionX dedicated controller has an optional thumb operated throttle lever
for proportional control when you don't want to pedal, and it's hard to see
how that could work with a smartphone.

[1][http://www.bionxinternational.com/bionx-international-
north-...](http://www.bionxinternational.com/bionx-international-north-
america/products/bionx-e-bike-systems/consoles/)

~~~
egonschiele
It also seems to be four times the price? That's what's listed here[1]. Either
way, could you describe your experience? What do you use it for, and is it
worth the expense? I'm wary of electric bikes because they are expensive,
heavy, and let you exercise less.

[1][http://electricbikereview.com/bionx/sl-350/](http://electricbikereview.com/bionx/sl-350/)

------
cjensen
"it can quickly be located and tracked via GPS" but the only radio in it is
Bluetooth, so I guess you can track it if you're in the same room...

"36V Lithium" battery, but no spec about how many kWh it stores.

"Top Speed 20mph". Given that it only operates when the human puts in some
effort, what does that even mean? I'm guessing this is written down because US
Law says if it goes faster than 20, it's no longer a bike.

"In 2011 Niko Klansek introduced the first line of electric bicycles to the
USA market." Nope; ebikes have been available in the US for far longer than
that.

GAH. There are lots of conversion kits you can buy today. The kickstarter
gives no way for you to figure out if this is anything better.

~~~
FlyKly
A GPS module is of course also located on the Smart Wheel itself so it sends a
signal on its own once the motion sensors (that turn on only after you lock
it) notice it's moving without your knowledge.

The top speed means exactly that - because the Smart Wheel is a pedal assist
this means it helps you accelerate until you reach 20 mph and no further.
You're correct in stating that the top speed is also set in accordance to the
US Law (or European Law, which allows for speeds up to 25 km/h).

We're sorry about the confusion about "the first line of electric bicycles" \-
this was of course meant to inform the reader about the first line of e-bikes
that we're introduced by FlyKly, not the first e-bikes EVER.

~~~
jessaustin
_...the motion sensors (that turn on only after you lock it) notice it 's
moving without your knowledge._

Is there any reason that "locking" doesn't render the device immobile? I
realize someone could still carry it off, but most thieves would be more
reluctant to steal a device they have to take apart and hack before using,
than one they can literally just ride away.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
I assumed they meant the bike is being geographically displaced and that yes
the wheel mechanism would be locked. For example if you pick up the back wheel
and push the cycle on the front one only.

------
chintan
Niko (the CEO) is real deal - he used to work across my cubicle at Projective
Space in SoHo. He first introduced FlyKly electric bikes in NYC (he did manage
to sell a lot in the area). His personal story is full of inspiring
entrepreneurial journey! He is now back with smart wheel! Good luck man!

------
beloch
Here's why I like this design.

5 kg is light for a battery/motor module, but it still adds about 50% to the
weight of a decent bike. The added thickness also means it's probably not
practical to put a multi-gear cassette on it. End result, this will _cripple_
most bikes once the battery runs out. More weight and poor gear ratios = hell
for the cyclist. However, most smart-bikes are crippled anyways once they run
out of juice.

The great thing is that you can use the same bike for commuting that you use
for your sweatier, long-haul weekend trips. All you have to do is swap the
original dumb-wheel back in. If you buy a dumb-bike and a smart-wheel you
almost get two bikes for the price of one.

Tip for the makers: Stress the ease of hot-swapping that wheel in even more
than you are now. This is a _major_ selling point.

P.S. I don't see a quick-release clamp on this sucker in your pictures or
video. This is a no-brainier and absolutely needs to be on there.

~~~
jrockway
The weight of the bike doesn't matter. A 20 pound bike plus a 200 pound rider
is about the same as a 30 pound bike plus a 200 pound rider. You're the heavy
part, not the bike. (People complain about citibikes being too heavy, but I
rarely get passed even on a citibike, so my guess is the problem's the rider,
not the bike.)

Also, I don't think a quick release will work for this. The motor needs to
push against the bike in order to move the wheel relative to the bike. A quick
release will slip.

~~~
simonb
Not necessarily. QR systems such as Maxle are sturdy enough for competitive
downhill use.

Also 10 pounds is a huge difference not just in the effort needed to propel
the bike forward but also in terms of maneuverability, especially as it is
rotating weight. And in city usage you often have to carry the bike down
stairs etc. where again 5 kg and a messed up center of gravity is a big deal.

~~~
jrockway
I bike about 5000 miles a year in the city and have never needed to carry my
bike down stairs while riding. Once you get it home, you might need to lug it
up to your apartment, but it's well within the realm of possibilities for a
healthy adult to carry a 40 pound bike up a few flights of stairs. (Then
again, it's also rather easy to pedal the bike around without a motor. But I
digress.)

~~~
simonb
Most European cities will make you carry your bike from time to time or make
huge detours. But, like you, I'm not the target customer for this so maybe
people in general are more careful with route planning.

------
alan_cx
KERS for a bicycle. Cool.

Given that old Lotus bike, Im surprised one for the F1 teams hasn't rustled
something up. I'd have a chat with one of them and see if they would like to
partner up. Especially as they are trying to be all green these days.

Can you harvest from the front wheel too?

~~~
leecbaker
If you slow the bike from either the front wheel or the back wheel, energy is
removed from the whole bike. There's little to no benefit from harvesting from
both wheels.

~~~
alan_cx
All the resistance is from only the rear wheel. So its like rear wheel
breaking, and potential lock ups in the wet. Surely its better to spread the
load. Also means twice the surface contact. Wouldn't that be better, perhaps
safer, to ride? Especially in the wet.

~~~
cuu508
But the extra cost and complexity, even weirder look, extra wires. For
emergency braking, keep the regular front brake. For minor speed adjustments
the rear brake will get the job done.

------
mdisraeli
My wheelchair-using family and friends have been rocking Alber e-motion
wheels[1] for some time, and would highly recommend them. Those don't recharge
from motion (or as fast), or support bluetooth, but work in a similar way.

[1] [http://www.alber.de/en/products/wheelchair-drive/mobility-
wh...](http://www.alber.de/en/products/wheelchair-drive/mobility-wheelchair-
emotion.html)

~~~
voltagex_
Cool! Do you know if they have any issues with it making the wheelchair wider
and therefore causing problems with doors/turning? I guess I'd have to give up
my 2 degree camber with those wheels but it might be worth it.

~~~
mdisraeli
From what I can tell (having not used one properly myself), they fit the
components within the push rim, so there's no real issues with doors or
turning. Just done some research for you, and looks like they can actually
support camber, too!

~~~
voltagex_
Thank you! Much appreciated. The last time I looked at these kind of wheels
they were big enough to require some modifications to the chair itself - looks
like even wheelchair technology gets a boost from time to time.

------
jessaustin
IANAMechanicalEngineer, but do we need to worry about additional stress on the
left dropout? The forces to which this component is typically subjected are
the weight of the system and the tension of the chain. This device would seem
to add an additional torque associated with driving the wheel via the pill-
shaped peg that slides into the dropout.

This probably wouldn't be an issue for most bikes, but it seems like it's
outside the design specs for any existing bike.

~~~
aidenn0
Having done e-bike mods in the past, rear-dropouts tend to be stronger than
front-dropouts, and on any steel bike you can put a lot of torque on the front
dropouts.

Only problem with rear-dropouts is accommodating the gearset, which they
cleverly handled by eliminating the gearset; that will _suck_ if you run out
of power downhill from your destination, but will otherwise work fine.

~~~
jessaustin
That would indeed suck! I can see why they didn't incorporate a cassette body
(and the chain clearance issues that would entail: basically everything they
have on the right side now would have to be moved to the left side) but it
does make the final product seem less like a _bicycle_. (I know, this is
sacrilege to the fixie folks. Meh.)

------
farnsworth
This is less efficient than putting all the batteries and other gear on the
frame, right? Spinning all that mass around will take energy. I don't see an
advantage unless you expect to swap wheels out often.

~~~
FlyKly
The Smart Wheel actually consists of two halves one of which is fixed (it
doesn't turn). The battery is therefore stationary and doesn't require any
kinetic energy to be spinned around the axis.

~~~
farnsworth
Oh, I guess I didn't pick up on that. Thanks for the clarification.

------
crazygringo
It doesn't appear to support bicycles with gears. Is that something planned
for a future model? Or do gears somehow become unnecessary with electric
assist? Could you even retrofit this to a standard cheap 15-gear bike, or is
it strictly fixed-gear only?

~~~
deletes
I think it supports bikes with gears where the pedals are( in the middle not
on the last wheel ). If you look in the video at about 3:58 you will see some
bikes with gears. This does limit you to two to four gears but that should be
enough. Just have two low gears and one high one.

------
grannyg00se
"It goes up to 20 mph (25 km/h) for a 30 miles (50 km) range."

The speed conversion is way off. But the distance conversion is pretty good.
Wonder why that is.

~~~
davidjohnstone
I mentioned that on Twitter. It turns out that those are the limits according
to the laws in US (20 mph) and EU (25 km/h), so it's top speed is limited
accordingly depending on the country it's in. It's also an amazingly confusing
way of putting it.

~~~
grannyg00se
Uh...yeah...20mph isn't 25km/h even if you are in the EU. They could use an
additional sentence there.

And worse...where does that leave Canada? Or any other of the 98.5% of
countries that use the metric system?

------
shadowmint
The chances of me sticky-taping my phone to the front of my bike are non-
existent.

...but also, won't charging this be a complete pain? I'm just imaging a
bicycle sitting next to all the other USB charge devices on my desk.
Awkward...

------
ginko
Considering the acceleration of the motor is controlled wirelessly, I wonder
if you could attack it so it e.g. accelerates uncontrollably.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
I imagine there's hardware limitation of the maximum current flow from the
batteries (above and beyond the natural limitation).

Perhaps less catastrophically but similarly you might attack the lock,
engaging the lock would most likely produce a skid and loss of control. With a
solenoid engaged by a control circuit might that be possible simply by
blasting the circuit with radio waves to induce a current? Thus you'd bypass
having to gain access to any software controls and such.

Much easier to just nudge the back wheel with your car or shove a stick in the
spokes if you're in to knocking people of their bikes though?

------
LaurentVB
I like the concept very much, but they're being a bit dishonest about the
"fits practically any bicycle frame". Even in their own video, they show the
wheel mounted on bikes where it absolutely does not fit with the brakes: see
[http://imgur.com/lZZ2ABg](http://imgur.com/lZZ2ABg)

------
Robin_Message
Could you fit it the front wheel instead? Less work with the chain, and you
can keep all your old gears. Not sure how it would affect the "drivability"
though.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
I was wondering about having a trike with both back wheels motorised (or a
wheelchair?). Weight at the front does make it easier to fall off though I
feel.

------
Zigurd
It's an interesting idea. But there are some big obstacles:

1\. I question the need for a retrofit product. There are many mature e-bike
designs on the market. I doubt it would be hard to find an ODM or CM that
could sell you a good design off the shelf.

2\. Many e-bikes have removable batteries. You can charge them at work. This
doesn't look like it could.

3\. Maybe the e-bike isn't the sweet spot. Maybe a slightly larger electric
scooter is it. Or maybe an even bigger three-wheeler like Toyota has shown.

4\. Outside of China, where gas scooters are prohibited in many (all?) cities,
e-bike have not caught on (though I see quite a lot of them in Manhattan,
still not enough to be mainstream)

~~~
eksith
Retrofitting avoids the problem of needless waste and cost when it comes to
the _vast_ quantity of existing bikes out there. I don't want to buy a new
bike if I can avoid it so replacing a wheel is quite a bit more appealing. I
can't imagine that I'm alone in this.

In fact, I'd argue most people would be willing to try this if only because it
only involves replacing a wheel. It probably won't cost nearly as much as a
new bike either so folks who couldn't otherwise afford it can purchase.

~~~
r00fus
Plus, the target market doesn't likely have storage space for both their
existing bike and a pedal assist model. If I'm a city-dwelling hacker, I'd
prefer buying a wheel over a scooter. I just pulled up listings on Amazon for
inexpensive e-bike pedal assists, and they're mostly largish scooter-types
that take a significant footprint to store compared to a bike which I can hang
on my wall.

Plus, having a wheel allows me to continue using my tires, frame, accessories
and everything I love about my current commuter bike.

~~~
kamjam
Also, I would use the e-wheel during the week for my commute to work and come
the weekend I could fairly quickly switch the wheel over to my regular one and
exercise properly. One bike, two purposes.

------
towski
If you don't mind having to position a battery on your bike, for $399 you can
already get an electric wheel.

[http://www.electric-bike-kit.com/hill-topper.aspx](http://www.electric-bike-
kit.com/hill-topper.aspx)

Otherwise I've been using a wheel and battery from
[http://www.leafmotor.com/hub-motors/16r-electric-hub-
motor.h...](http://www.leafmotor.com/hub-motors/16r-electric-hub-motor.html)

If you're more into plugging stuff together yourself. They also offer more
wheel sizes, like 700c.

~~~
aidenn0
While we're plugging ones we've used, I like
[http://www.ampedbikes.com/](http://www.ampedbikes.com/) I have an old ugly
battery; they now have a shiny frame battery that I can't justify buying.

------
hipsterelitist
These guys made an electric bike/scooter hybrid a few years back that had some
buzz here in NYC before release, but just seems to have fizzled. I'd be
curious to know what happened.

------
soperj
What's to stop someone from just taking the wheel when it's locked? Or
removing the wheel and taking the rest of the bike?

~~~
r-s
It looks like this wheel is using a standard quick release. If that's the case
it would be fairly easy to take out. Couple of options though:

\- When locking the bike, run the lock through the wheel. Yes, someone could
still cut the spokes and steal the main hub, but this is going to take q fair
amount of effort.

\- Have a bolt on version, lots of older bikes, or bikes which use a
horizontal dropout design already have this. Typically they use 15mm wrenches,
but there are some alternative sizes (some even use hex keys).

Looks like a pretty cool concept. I personally would prefer a model which only
gained energy from the rider when coasting down hills or braking, then could
release the energy at the riders discretion. Plugging a bike into an external
power source isn't something that interests me.

~~~
StavrosK
> I personally would prefer a model which only gained energy from the rider
> when coasting down hills or braking

But then you gain nothing, on average.

~~~
darkmighty
Of course you gain, since that energy would otherwise be wasted as heat.

------
virtualritz
Most bikes I see in cities in Europe have hub gears in the rear wheel's axle.
I think this won't work with these because if you put that wheel in, you loose
the hub gear?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hub_gear](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hub_gear)

~~~
deletes
Can you have hub gears in the pedal section?

~~~
virtualritz
No, the gear is in the axle. My bike has this too. I'd love to have something
like the FlyKly but as it is, it won't work.

~~~
deletes
I did some research and pedal section( bottom bracket) gears exist, but aren't
very common.

[http://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/8872/bottom-
brac...](http://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/8872/bottom-bracket-with-
built-in-internal-hub-does-this-exist)

[http://www.haberstock-mobility.com/en/products/schlumpf-
driv...](http://www.haberstock-mobility.com/en/products/schlumpf-drive.html)

[http://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/5274/why-not-
hav...](http://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/5274/why-not-have-the-
gears-inside-the-bottom-bracket)

------
Tarang
Im curious how does the (normal) braking system work? If the motors helps push
against hills it pushes against resistance like the rubber brakes too? Surely
its not always regenerative braking? I guess you always have to stop pedaling
for that to kick in.. It is nice though to go down a hill or even flat land on
free without feeling the resistance of regenerative braking or something
slowing you down.. Do we get control over this?

The second was how does it talk to the phone without a SIM card or some kind
of internet connection if you're a couple of storeys up in a building where
Bluetooth? doesn't have any range?

Otherwise this is pretty awesome, although I do like getting a bit of a
workout when going around I like when you want you can move around stressless
it would be awesome for 'those days' and not have to use a car.

------
codex
If this project is like the other Kickstarter projects I've backed, it will
meet its funding goal then be delayed by months and months, if not years, with
letters of apology sent every month or so. It's a shame because Kickstarter is
one of the best things to ever happen to capitalism.

------
bluekite2000
I thought electric bikes are illegal in New York???
[http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/04/electric-
bikes-...](http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/04/electric-bikes-to-
become-even-more-illegal.html)

~~~
jrockway
They are illegal to ride on the street, not to possess. So you can build them
in NYC and ship them to somewhere legal, and everything is fine.

------
r00fus
Battery life of 1000 cycles? Isn't that a bit low considering it'll only take
you about 30mi/50km per charge cycle?

If they had some way of restoring the batteries without replacing/repurchasing
the wheel, I'd be less concerned.

~~~
FlyKly
1000 cycles of 30 miles is in average way more than an average commuter spends
riding over a course of a year. We believe this distance is acceptable for a
product with a one year warranty.

Of course the battery pack will also be easily replacable.

~~~
kevinpet
So your view is that the expected lifetime of the product is identical to your
one year warranty? I think that's the sort of thing you're supposed to let
your disappointed customers discover after they've purchased.

~~~
ndonnellan
Interesting interpretation of that comment. I read it as "30,000 miles is WAY
WAY WAY more than the average commuting distance in a year." Not "is equal
to". Do you think the average bike commuter lives 50 miles from work?

~~~
kamjam
Not unrealistic if you happen to 25 miles away (journey each way) but
definitely not your "average commuter". (I used to cycle 20 miles each way, I
knew someone that cycled 35 miles, but for different reasons than _just_
commuting).

------
mistercow
What I'm not clear here is whether this does regenerative braking, or only
charges at home. If it's regenerative, it's awesome and I want it. I've
actually wanted to do a DIY regenerative braking project for a bike for a long
time (impracticality and net-loss-due-to-added-weight would not really bother
me as long as it worked). Somehow, if it's only charged at home, I feel like
it's kind of silly, like a way to make biking lazier.

Still, in any case it would be awesome in that it would make biking practical
in hilly areas where it is otherwise a horrible mode of transportation.

~~~
dangoor
From the Kickstarter page:

"The battery also charges when you’re going above the desired speed, riding
downhill or pedaling with the motor off."

------
6ren
I'm disappointed it doesn't (seem to) do regenerative braking... so elegant,
don't waste that power, reuse it! But I don't think this is a big selling
point, and you can always add it later.

I think your marketing approach is what will make or break it: "non-sweaty to
dates/interviews" and the phone-charger could be the killer app (perhaps look
into what segment actually experiences this pain most? Many of today's phones
have adequate battery life for some people's usage; target those phones +
usages that _don 't_).

~~~
hengheng
Regenerative braking often doesn't pay off. Note that you don't need a whole
lot of energy to put your bike into motion, while you need quite some energy
to keep it moving due to friction. Putting in numbers, if you go
5m/s=18km/h=12mph, your kinetic energy is 100kg*(5 m/s)²/2 = 1.25kJ, which at
125W can power you for ten seconds.

You can cast longer than ten seconds in front of a red light in most
situations. And keep in mind that for regenerative braking to work, you must
walk twice through the whole efficiency chain, which is generator ->
electronics -> battery -> battery -> electronics -> motor), giving you an
efficiency of about 0.85^6=37%. So 3.7 seconds.

------
tirant
It only comes in 26 and 29 inches size. Good luck then selling to one of the
biggest market of Bikes (and electrical bikes), Europe, where the common size
for Urban bikes is 28 inches.

------
kamjam
Will this only work with single speed bikes? What about bikes with gears in
the front and/or back, they will need to be converted to single speed I
presume?

------
joetech
I absolutely want one of these. They've thought of everything. As I went to
pledge my money for it, I found that the starting pledge that actually gets me
a wheel was $550 and that's all gone. So to get one will run me $590 and
presumably more in retail. This is where "more accessible" as one of their
goals falls short.

It looks great, but I'll have to pass at the price.

------
avn2109
Sweet product. But am I the only one who has noticed that the "locking"
feature is an absolute joke? Esp. in NYC, where the most burly bike locks
money can buy keep you a mere step ahead of only the least-committed thieves.

Also, can this thing run without a smartphone? If it's raining, you certainly
don't want to keep your phone on the bars.

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tocomment
I was trying to figure out if this same type of thing would be possible to
build into a car tire. I haven't been able to figure out braking yet?

Is there any work being done to simple regen braking systems that could easily
be added to cars?

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CrankyPants
Will it come in black? 700c?

~~~
freiheit
I'm pretty sure when they say "29 inch" they mean "700c". It's the same bead
seat diameter.

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nsm
I do hope this will work even if I don't have a smartphone.

It's ridiculous how a lot of mechanical things today are bound to the digital
world when they don't need to be.

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DanBlake
This has been done before, not sure why it warrants a kickstarter.

The Copenhagen wheel has been around for around ~5 years and looks identical
to this, sans the GPS.

[http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/16/mits-copenhagen-wheel-
tur...](http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/16/mits-copenhagen-wheel-turns-your-
bike-into-a-hybrid-personal-t/) [http://www.soullessmachine.com/2013/01/the-
copenhagen-wheel-...](http://www.soullessmachine.com/2013/01/the-copenhagen-
wheel-is-real-as-seen-in.html)

~~~
FlyKly
We're aware of the many similarities people will want to draw with Copenhagen
Wheel but allow me to introduce some important differences as well:

1) Smart Wheel introduces a brand new electric motor that is thinner and
lighter (and more efficient) than any other before it. Copenhagen Wheel uses
regular rotary motor that's heavy and cumbersome, not to mention it's not a
replaceable wheel - it comes together with the whole bicycle.

2) The GPS module might seems like the only thing that separates the Smart
Wheel from the Copenhagen Wheel (it's not) but it's the difference of how they
use this data that makes all the difference. Smart Wheel uses GPS data to
learn about your cycling habits and routines and then suggests on how to
improve them. This data can also be used to help improving the cycling
experiences of other people. Copenhagen Wheel measures noise and air pollution
levels and uses them for statistical purposes only.

3) Smart Wheel is opensource which means our users will be available to
develop their own apps and other tools to find new innovations to using the
Smart Wheel. We're already working closely with Pebble Watch and other similar
devices are in the works, too.

4) Last but not least, despite being around for ~5 years, Copenhagen Wheel is
still only a prototype with no sign of ever being available to the market.
Smart Wheel is becoming available in May 2014.

~~~
kamjam
_...not to mention it 's not a replaceable wheel - it comes together with the
whole bicycle._

Are you sure about that?
[http://senseable.mit.edu/copenhagenwheel/wheel.html](http://senseable.mit.edu/copenhagenwheel/wheel.html)

> The Copenhagen Wheel turns the bike you already own, quickly and easily into
> an electric bike with regeneration and real-time environmental sensing
> capabilities.

Albeit, the big caveat being point 4 you mention of course! :)

~~~
catch23
The copenhagen wheel looks pretty cool. Too bad nobody can buy it. I guess
those copenhagen people can put whatever they want on their press release
since they will probably never turn it into an actual product.

------
susi22
Will it be waterproof? ipx7? What about vibrations? The housing for a Di2
battery case are enormous compared to the battery it contains.

------
tomdidom
This is the Copenhagen Wheel from Andy in Weeds!

------
Ono-Sendai
spelling mistake: "and it weights only 9 lbs (4 kg)"

------
hendekagon
Unsprung mass

~~~
bagels
Many bikes don't have any suspension springs. What is your point?

~~~
jessaustin
Possibly that the device won't stand up well to the rigors of regular riding?
Potholes, curbs, railroad tracks, stairs, etc.? With all those different
batteries, if any particular solder connection fails say once a year on
average, this would be totally unusable after a few months.

------
Miyamoto
Unless you're disabled, why do people want an electric bicycle? I figured most
people cycle because they love cycling and the exercise of it. Including
hills. Is this product meant to attract more automobilist?

~~~
redcap
Electric bicycles are pretty big in Japan - a lot of mothers and housewives
use them to get around all the time as they don't tire you as much as normal
bikes.

Also, there's a few bicycles these days with two childseats, so that's a lot
of weight to cart around.

A bit of info here:
[http://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2008/08/17/travel/electric-...](http://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2008/08/17/travel/electric-
bikes-charge-the-market/)

~~~
brianobush
Maybe in Tokyo, but I have never seen them in Sapporo. That must be why
everyone is so fit :)

