
The Tenacity of Tech Recruiters - smnplk
http://www.mattfriz.com/#/outbursts/recruiter-email
======
orcdork
The tenacity of blog posts about tech recruiters

\--

Dear
hackernews/reddit/socialmediathatsslightlyoffthemainstreamsoicanappearedgybutstillconnectwithmytargetdemographic

My name is Person McPerson. Here in MajorTechHubCity where there's so many
work opportunities, i get so many work opportunities that it actually annoys
me so much that I'll spend all of 30 seconds to write a blog post about
getting so many work opportunity emails. Once, I was offered a job in a
programming language that hasn't been mainstream for at least 4 months! That
language was ruby for all those interested. Ruby! Don't make me spit out my
own coffee in indignation. I obviously tracked down the person that wrote the
email and gave them whatfor. Well, actually I just pressed the "I don't know
this person" button.

It's a difficult life, and i hope you empathize with my plight. It really is,
as the beatles put it, a hard day's night answering all these linkedin
messages. I don't actually answer them though. That's for suckers. You're not
some kind of ruby using sucker are you?

Sincerely yours, Person McPerson. (available for remote work, 3 days a week
due to my digital nomad lifestyle, please email me)

~~~
ryandrake
Thank you.

(disclaimer: not a recruiter)

I like HN, but the attitude towards recruiters here is so ugly and smug and
superior. We get it. You are so annoyed by all these companies who want to
hire you. You have the power to merely pick up the phone and work at Google
tomorrow if it pleased you. You drive a Tesla and have a supermodel girlfriend
too. Great. Congratulations. You're awesome.

For the rest of us mortals, it's nice to have someone reach out and offer to
put us in touch with someone looking to hire us. This is a LUXURY not
available to the vast majority of workers in the world. Be a little grateful
for a change. Sure, a lot of the jobs might be "bottom of the barrel" type
jobs but you never know, and it never hurts to be civil and treat these folks
with a little empathy.

~~~
alaaibrahim
I do understand your sentiment, I was flattered when I first moved the to bay
area, with all the recruiters sending me emails, and I would politely reply
telling them that I'm not available (because of my immigration status).

But, the problem is that it's the same template, and most of the recruiters
haven't even bothered to check the message that they sent (I think they are
using some software to send these emails).

My name has an apostrophe in it, when the email starts with

    
    
        Hi Ala&#39;,
    

I know that he didn't check anything, and he is not interested in me, but in
anyone.

When the email contains a lot of false statements, like

    
    
        Your experience in Python is impressive.
    

given that I don't use python, and my knowledge in it is very limited.

When you are receiving these emails 10 times a week, it becomes annoying.

~~~
collyw
Yes, I had my university project on my CV - which was comparing Perl, PHP and
Java for a task. I didn't do any of the PHP code, yet I was constantly sent
jobs for PHP because it obviously hits their keyword search.

------
dsr_
Here's the other end, recruiters hoping to sell you candidates:

\----

I emailed you about your opening last week. I'm just checking to see if you
are still searching for great candidates.

If so, I can help! I have a great candidate who you may want to interview.

If not, let me know what positions you are looking to fill and I will get to
work.

CyberCoders is a pay for performance, nationwide recruiting firm that focuses
on exceptional local candidates who meet your needs.

Best part? We stand behind all of our candidates and will replace them if for
any reason they do not work out.

\-----

That sounds nice, doesn't it? Except that I don't have a position open at the
moment, nor did I last week, and how exactly are they representing "a great
candidate" when they don't even know what we're looking for?

Naturally I wrote back saying that this was great and they should send me the
resume immediately. They haven't responded...

~~~
zippergz
I'm generally much more pro-recruiter than the crowd here at HN, but I filter
anything from Cybercoders directly to the trash, both as a candidate and a
hiring manager.

~~~
rhizome
CyberCoders and their overposting siblings is why I don't bother with LinkedIn
job ads anymore.

~~~
convolvatron
i recently had an exchange with 'Bill' from Cybercoders.

'found your resume, looks fantastic, check out this job posting' \- oh, i
think i know the company, would love to work with them, let me know

two weeks later - 'found your resume, looks fantastic, check out this job
posting' \- don't you remember me? there was a similar posting, and you didn't
get back to me, ok, no matter. 'can i call you on friday'

didn't bother calling. a week later starts leaving daily voice mails. i
mistakenly answer, lie, and told him i just started at another job

a week later 'found your resume, looks fantastic...'

------
kerkeslager
Recruiters get put on my autoresponder list. The automatic response says "This
is an automated response. Your message was caught by a filter and
automatically archived" right at the top, followed by an explanation that I
don't work with third-party recruiters. About once a year I check what
messages were caught by the recruiter filter and I always discover a few
recruiters who have responded (apparently manually) multiple times to my
autoresponder, receiving the same response every time. Their messages are
usually something like "I understand why you feel that way but we're not like
other recruiters, we think you'd be a really good match for X company working
with a decaying technology you haven't worked in for 10 years". It's
"tenacity", but I can't imagine conversing with autoresponders is very
effective.

~~~
objclxt
> It's "tenacity", but I can't imagine conversing with autoresponders is very
> effective.

Particularly at the bottom end recruitment can be a scummy industry (just like
anywhere that's sales and commission led, I suppose).

Back when I worked at a ~100 person company as a hiring manager I had
recruiters pull all kinds of crazy. Recruiters submitting fake resumes to find
out what positions are open, waiting for me outside the office to shove
resumes into my hands, get genuine resumes from candidates not working with
them, send them to me, and then claim to represent them...and that's before
you get onto the black market for leads and the like.

------
feverishaaron
It's shameful. I had to make my Instagram private, because I had a recruiter
texting me and noting I was at Disneyland, suggesting I could get in touch
while in line for rides.

~~~
amorphid
That is simultaneously both awesome and creepy.

~~~
gjtorikian
I'm struggling to find the "awesome" part.

I've been harassed on Instagram by people asking me to update an open source
project I let go of five years ago. While it may seem neat and flattering, the
reality is that it's incredibly disturbing.

~~~
amorphid
I think awesome depends on the sensibilities of the person being stalked, and
the sweetness of the opportunity. I concur that the creep factor likely trumps
the awesome factor. Still, if a recruiter popped out of my closet with a
million dollar opportunity, there's nothing to say that I can't take the
opportunity, and then call the cops.

------
jxramos
My impression is that those on the bottom of the recruiter rung do the really
desperate stuff like hounding you with several weeks of emails every few days,
calling you at your office, etc. If you're so unlucky to be a dead ringer for
a position and have a rookie recruiter thinking they can wrangle you in, hold
on to your seats.

I'd highly recommend folks read "Gurus, Hired Guns, and Warm Bodies: Itinerant
Experts in a Knowledge Economy", great perspectives given from all three
parties involved in this land of recruitment. Also covers some history that
may no longer be well known why the state of affairs is as such.

------
symlinkk
Boo hoo, you have people knocking on your door to give you a comfortable job.
I wish I had that problem.

~~~
ipsin
Tech recruiters at cold-call end of the Talent Acquisition Funnel aren't
offering you a comfortable job, though.

They're searching on LinkedIn and offering you to throw at a company with
Similarly Aligned Keywords to see if you stick.

I want to believe that there are higher-quality recruiters out there, ones who
understand employee fit from both sides, but I haven't had the privilege of
meeting one.

~~~
freework
Any job with a paycheck on a regular basis is a high quality job, for me at
least.

~~~
khedoros1
With the tech job market right now, most tech workers can find jobs that pay
the bills easily, so they'll tend to raise their level of discrimination a
little. So they look for the one that pays a little more, is working with some
neat technology, and basically works with their schedule (Or whichever other
list of nice-to-haves).

When you can afford to be picky, "high quality" takes on a different meaning.

~~~
maym86
Exactly. But the point is that is a luxury for most people. Having recruiters
chase you and being irritated by it lacks some awareness of how hard it is for
some people to earn a living. It is hard to sympathize with people for having
to ignore a few emails every day.

~~~
khedoros1
That part of it isn't lost on me. Although, I think being _irritated_ by
people (recruiters) harassing you is natural, but complaining about it to
someone vying in a less-lively job market is insensitive, and I wouldn't
expect that person to sympathize in the least.

------
pascalxus
the desperation/amount of the recruiters is inversely proportional to the
available housing surrounding the hiring company. Hence, most recruiters are
all working for companies in or near SF, or Palo Alto: of which we've heard
from 100s!

Despite there being ample software companies in the east bay/tri-valley area,
I haven't heard from a single recruiter, recruiting for a position in the tri-
valley area - I imagine their doing just fine with their hiring.

If companies are serious about hiring talent, they're going to need to start
relocating to areas that candidates can get to/live in.

~~~
quantumhobbit
This is so true. I live in an affordable area two hours from a minor tech hub.
I get plenty offers for that hub, but next to nothing nearby. I have a good
enough job so I have no interest in moving. Maybe 1/10 are interested in
remote work, so I tend to at least hear them out.

------
mmanfrin
My favorite recruiting emails are the ones where their name-replace code broke
and left in {{first_name}} or something similar.

Ah, yes, I must be the _perfect_ fit for your role!

~~~
tracker1
Why thank you {{recruiter_name}}, I realize that {{spammy_recruiting_company}}
is great and that you really go the extra mile for your prospects, I'd love to
hear more, but I'm really happy where I am, and as I just started am not
actively looking.

------
pinewurst
Repost:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10319428](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10319428)

------
mrbill
It's missing a bit about how the job is in a city that you last lived in three
employers ago.

I'm continually having to tell cold-contact recruiters that I don't live in
Austin anymore, having moved to Houston twelve years ago.

~~~
tracker1
Yeah... getting called from a resume/profile over a decade old isn't much fun.

------
mywittyname
I'd write these emails all day every day for the money recruiters make.

~~~
popcorncolonel
Do they make a lot? How comparable is it to engineer salary?

~~~
matthewmacleod
Their fee is typically a percentage of the first year's salary for the role
their candidate fills. I've seen them request up to 30%, but in my experience
they settle for 10-15% depending on the situation.

For a skilled recruiter, this can accrue pretty quickly; at the rate of one
role filled per month, they're bringing in equivalent to an average engineer's
salary. Of course I'm ignoring overheads there, and if they're working for a
recruitment firm they'll be personally receiving commission rather than an
individual fee. But my experience in the UK was that there were a few powerful
and well-connected independent recruiters who had most of the good candidates
and interesting companies on their books - I imagine it could add up pretty
quickly!

~~~
zippergz
It's much like the real estate business (in the US, at least). There are a
handful of people who can do extremely well, and then a long tail who think it
looks like easy money but end up making very little.

------
nailer
Needs to mention that they were 'looking through my GitHub'

~~~
tpaschalis
Oh, look! A couple of stolen Javascript (it's always Javascript) frameworks,
as well as a fork of TensorFlow!

~~~
Ralfp
I've _starred_ the FB's fastText on Github. This was enough to start getting
emails from recruiters looking for AI developers in my area.

Sigh...

------
ng12
Today I got an email sent to my work email (which they must have guessed, it's
not public) that asked how I liked working at a company I left years ago. That
was a fun one.

~~~
user5994461
Judging from my experience, the next one will be to place you at the company
you already are.

------
NikolaeVarius
I had a funny one where during the AWS S3 outage a recruiter reached out to me
saying that I most likely had free time due to the outage and i should use it
talking to him...

------
gravyboat
A recruiter contacted me a while back with a similar act, just completely
clueless. I put out ridiculous terms and informed him of a handbook I've
written to help him improve. He responded by saying he was interested but only
if it had data driven facts (which it doesn't). I created a coupon code to
give him a free copy of the book, he never cashed it in. Recruiters are all
bullshit, assume everything they say is a lie.

------
andrewstuart
It's too easy to bash recruiters on HN. They exist because people want jobs
and employers give them money to find people.

~~~
matthewmacleod
I appreciate the value in theory, but practically tech recruitment seems to be
a bit silly. Recruiters have a habit of cornering the market; if they have all
the best candidates on their books, employers are almost obliged to indulge
what's effectively rent-seeking behaviour. Ideally it would be much better if
qualified candidates speak directly to employers and lose the go-between, who
doesn't add a huge amount of value (though they can to some extent take a bit
of the work out for the candidate, and possible negotiate salary and benefits
more forcefully).

To me the much bigger problem in tech recruitment is the difficulty of finding
permanent staff rather than contractors. I don't know what the state of the
market is in the US, but in London good permanent staff are becoming as rare
as hens' teeth. The natural outcome of a seller's market, I suppose.

~~~
smsm42
They have potential to add huge value for candidates. I.e., if I looked for a
job, I'd appreciate somebody to take the annoying part - scheduling, initial
talking/pitching, resume sending, introductions, filtering out obvious
mismatches, negotiating good terms, etc. - and only do the actual interviewing
and deciding. But from what I hear, most recruiters are underqualified to do
that, and/or prefer to play simple numbers game - spam enough people and you
may get lucky.

------
AnimalMuppet
Pro tip: Annoying me is _not_ the most effective way to get me to do what you
want.

------
sdboyer
shit, if there were an actual company with real use for Merovingian
numismatics, i would work there in a heartbeat

------
douche
My LinkedIn is completely blank - no bio, no picture, no skills, no education
info, nothing about where I work, about four connections to former coworkers.
I get emails almost every day from recruiters nonetheless. It's like the
epitome of r-selection.

~~~
csnewb
I have a picture, my education listed (CS B.S. degree from top 30 university),
prior internship (with short description), and my current position at a huge
company in Silicon Valley (also with a short description). On average 1-2
recruiters look at my profile without contact. What the hell am I doing wrong?

