

Speculation on the next MacBook Pro - atularora
http://www.marco.org/3027446896

======
jburwell
Glad to see pure speculation making the front page. It's a sad commentary when
you a few links to that vaunted journal Mac Rumors would vastly increase the
credibility of a post. I am sure some would love to see a 15" MacBook Air and
the demise of the glass screen, but airing those desires is not news.

~~~
randallsquared
Fortunately, it prompts interesting discussion, which I enjoy seeing on the
front page.

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pclark
I have the i7 MBP and it is awesome. It has the processing power to do serious
work ("video games") and also the mobility to do it on the train.

I'd be bummed out if they made the MBP basically a larger MacBook Air. I think
most people buy the 15" MBP because they want a mobile workstation, rather
than an ultraportable. For example, I hope the new 15" MBP has a top end video
card.

~~~
bergie
Removing the optical drive and switching to SSD shouldn't make it any less a
workstation. These changes would allow for a bigger battery, for instance,
which would enable them to increase processing power without losing battery
life.

~~~
ericd
The wedge shape would seemingly involve a lot of compromises to get that form
factor, which isn't necessarily what MBP buyers are looking for. Personally,
since it's my primary machine, I'm looking for the most powerful/connectable
machine they can fit in 15 inches, shape/weight be damned.

The changes you mention wouldn't be bad, it's more the other Air-like
attributes that I wouldn't want.

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bitserf
With an SSD by default, the 13" MBP should offer a decent boost in performance
over the Air, so I think it still has a place with its better upgrade options.

Recall, it's also the best-selling MBP.

I'm hoping they announce the new lineup soon though, been holding off on
upgrading my 2006 MBP since November (it's still using a 7200RPM spindle,
painful).

~~~
adamfeldman
I have an expresscard SSD[1] in my 2006 MBP that really made the machine
usable again. I run OSX and my apps off the SSD, and keep my user folder on
the internal drive.

[1]
[http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820161...](http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820161410)

~~~
Groxx
Now that's an interesting product... I may have to pick one up in a few months
/ a year. Hopefully more come out, Newegg lists only one or two of those in
their entire lineup, from what I can tell, and it seems a perfect pro-sumer
use of the express card slot.

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whakojacko
Maybe its just me, but I have no issue with the size and weight of the 15" MBP
(again, this could be because I came from previous larger 15" laptops). But I
would love to see the optical drive dropped in place of more battery life....
Oh, and 1920x1080 would be nice. But I doubt that'll happen...

~~~
Samuel_Michon
_"1920x1080 would be nice. But I doubt that'll happen..."_

Actually, I think that is a real possibility. With the last MacBook Air
refresh, screen resolution went up from 1280x800 to 1440x900. The current
MacBook Pro 15" has a resolution of 1440x900, based on past refreshes I think
it's safe to assume that the new MBP 15" will have a higher resolution than
the current MBA. Most likely 1680x1050 but 1920x1080 isn't impossible.

 _"I would love to see the optical drive dropped in place of more battery
life"_

If Apple drops the optical drive in the next MBP 15", they'll likely reduce
the thickness of the notebook, as well as increase the battery life.

~~~
ugh
You already can get the 15" MBP with a resolution of 1680x1050. If they make
that the standard I would bet that you can also get it with some higher
resolution. (I hope that it’s not going to be 1920x1080 because that’s 16:9. I
don’t know what the 16:10 equivalent is.)

The problem is that resolution independence is nowhere near finished and the
new MBPs will likely arrive before OS X Lion (which could conceivably have
resolution independence). Seeing as resolution independence has seen no
improvements with Snow Leopard it wouldn’t surprise me if Apple just gave up
on it.

~~~
Samuel_Michon
The 16:10 equivalent would be 1920x1200.

The current MacBook Air has a PPI of 135. The BTO 1680x1050 MacBook Pro has a
PPI of 128. 1920x1200 on a 15" is probably overkill, even on a 17" screen
that's a PPI of 132.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_displays_by_pixel_densi...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_displays_by_pixel_density#Apple_Inc).

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moeffju
I bought a new MBP a few months ago and back then, I was a little annoyed that
I could not wait for the new versions to come out that would sure obsolete the
computer I would buy now. Hearing this speculation, I'm even more glad I
didn't wait. The speculation makes sense. But compared with my current setup -
MBP 15" HiRes AntiGlare, replaced SuperDrive with a 240G OCZ Vertex 2 in
OptiBay, installed 8G RAM - I don't see how the new MBPs could be any better
for me. The only thing I'd like to see in the next MBP would be more RAM
capacity. 8G is nice, but my desktop has 32G for a reason (or rather,
reasons).

~~~
pclark
Do you simply not worry about having no worry due to the OptiBay? I'm tempted.
I'm also concerned about harming the resale value by installing an OptiBay...

~~~
moeffju
The OptiBay installation took me all of 5 minutes. It comes in a bundle with
the correct screwdriver(s), if you don't have a Torx T6. Mine also came with
an external enclosure for the superdrive. The actual installation is very
simple, mostly removing screws; only one ribbon cable is a little delicate,
but not a problem either. If you have any experience tinkering with
electronics, it's a breeze, but if you don't, just be a little careful, not
much can go wrong. Or, of course, have someone do it for it.

I didn't plan on reselling this computer ever, but if I were, I assume that
the buyer would be just as happy with more HDD space and a super-fast system
disk, plus an external SuperDrive. Worst case I could always build this back
to stock configuration within half an hour.

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statictype
Mac OS X doesn't support TRIM does it?

I know a lot of people are gushing over the SSD drives but aren't they going
to be bummed out in 12 months when it starts degrading?

~~~
m104
You _really_ think that Apple would let their SSD-buying customers twist in
the wind? The people paying a premium, or buying an MacBook Air? You're saying
that Apple hasn't had or won't have a way to make OS X love the SSD?

Apple, the company that will probably be the first major computer manufacturer
to eliminate the spinning disks, the company that is doing whatever it can to
snatch up flash memory production capacity. That same company is going to let
the performance suffer on, like, _all_ of their devices? Really?

~~~
statictype
Are you trying to make some point?

If you have an answer, I'd be genuinely interested in hearing it, because as
far as I know, that little thing is needed for SSDs to work properly over long
term, since overwriting pages in a flash disk is significantly more costly
than writing data to fresh pages.

If you don't have an answer, well, your comment seems to be fairly content-
free.

~~~
m104
My point is that your conclusion was solely based on what you "know" and not
what's really going on. You've illustrated my point very clearly. You "know"
three things:

a) SSDs "need" TRIM support and driver support or the storage performance will
greatly suffer b) Apple doesn't support TRIM, at least not officially c) Apple
hasn't stated they will have TRIM support in the future

and from those three things, you're just _sure_ that Apple's customers will
pay some terrible price.

But you need to ask a few questions to back up what you "know":

1) Where are all of the "my MBA/MBP slows to crawl when the SSD is full"
complaints? 2) Why would Apple bet the future of their OS X and iOS line of
products on storage performance that painfully degrades with usage? 3) When,
ever, has Apple displayed a _stunning_ lack of foresight with their technology
shifts that left millions of customers to twist in the wind?

When you add these to the mix, something doesn't add up. That should cause you
to pause for a moment and say, hmm, perhaps I don't "know" everything. My
reply was supposed to get you to say, "ah, I hadn't considered that." I was
adding to the discussion by (trying to) provoke a bit of insightful reasoning
beyond the typical "I'm sure I know what I'm talking about even though I
haven't tested it."

Ignore me, though. It's just a debate with our opinions and perspectives. Look
at the data, instead.

ugh's comment deserves to be upvoted because it links to benchmarked testing
of Apple's SSD-bearing devices. The conclusion is clear: Apple's SSD
performance isn't affected by a) and thus your line of reasoning is garbage.
They were stunned and you should be too. I can confirm these benchmarks, if
you don't trust them, by filling up the SSD on my own MBA. No performance
penalties that I can see.

So, at least one of the three things that you "know" from a), b), and c) is
wrong. Since you seemed to be teetering on the side of Schadenfreude with your
original comment, I'm going to guess that you generally avoid Apple products
and had genuinely wished that you were right or will be proven right. Ask
yourself some questions from a different perspective next time or, better yet,
look up some hard data. That way you will either learn that you are wrong
earlier or will have some evidence to back up your opinion.

~~~
statictype
_ugh's comment deserves to be upvoted because it links to benchmarked testing
of Apple's SSD-bearing devices._

Yes, and I upvoted him for that. He provided an actual answer instead of just
knee-jerk condescension and deriding me for even asking the question.

 _Since you seemed to be teetering on the side of Schadenfreude with your
original comment, I'm going to guess that you generally avoid Apple products
and had genuinely wished that you were right or will be proven right._

Yes, I suspected that this was your opinion based on the tone of your post and
really, you have no basis whatsoever for reaching this conclusion.

Not that it should even matter but I have a 13" MacBook, a Mac-Mini at home
and an iPhone 3GS. So maybe you should remember this the next time you start
to make assumptions on a person commenting without knowing anything whatsoever
about them :)

 _or, better yet, look up some hard data_

Yes, some people knowledgeable on the topic commented and showed that my
original hypothesis was wrong, and that's fine. I was looking for a reason
'why' disks would work, and I got it.

Your comment provided no such value to the conversation.

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toadi
Waiting for the 15" upgrade too. But don't want to loose the optical drive,
don't use it that often but don't want to shell out a lot of money for an
external one. Also I need a ethernet cable slot. In some companies I work they
have flaky wireless lan's so I prefer to use cable. At home I also use cable
to transfer big files. But I could upgrade my old G wireless lan ;)

~~~
ugh
Well, don’t force us all to lug around an optical drive just because you need
it!

I occasionally need to rip rare CDs with music I can’t get online, maybe twice
a year or so. I’m probably just going to keep my old MBP around for that. I
don’t think such a special problem deserves a built-in solution.

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bowmande
I just bought the 13 inch Macbook Air and love it. I do Rails and mobile
development on it and have no issues. I would think that many overestimate
their needs. For me the portability combined with the speed makes the 13inch
MBA amazing. I would be interested possibly in a 15inch, but only if it came
with more speed or battery life.

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hendler
Why no mention of "Sandy Bridge" quad core? That's the most significant
performance boost I'm expecting.

(I'd comment on the page, but there are no comments enabled).

~~~
m3koval
The author mentions the new CPUs in a footnote: "Except new CPUs, but who
cares? CPUs are the least exciting (and usually least relevant) upgrades in
modern mass-market personal computers." For the vast majority of users,
including many power users, moving from a "very fast" processor to an
"extremely fast" processor is much less of a performance gain than moving from
a HDD to a SDD.

That's not to say that I don't wish compilation times were faster on my
current Macbook Pro...

~~~
cletus
Compilation is notoriously singlethreaded, generally speaking.

I believe Apple has made a deliberate choice that quad core offers little
benefit over dual core with unjustifiably higher power usage.

So I wouldn't be surprised if the next gen is also dual core only.

I don't expect the MBP to die in the next gen either. Performance is much
better than the Ars.

~~~
masklinn
> I believe Apple has made a deliberate choice that quad core offers little
> benefit over dual core with unjustifiably higher power usage.

It's more along the lines of Intel not having any quad arrandale in acceptable
TDPs.

~~~
yuhong
Yea, Sandy Bridge is the first 32nm quad-core with integrated graphics.

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wippler
Have to agree with CPU's comment, they are the most irrelevant upgrade to
laptops these days and yet you find people complaining that they wont buy new
MBP's if they don't upgrade to Sandy Bridge.

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kgc
The only changes I'd make to the "air-ified" MacBook Pro would be, in addition
to replacing the 3.5in HD's with the slim SSD's found in the air and getting
rid of the optical drive, would be to fill the remaining space with even more
batteries, allowing all day usage with a beefy i7 processor and a dedicated
graphics chip.

~~~
Samuel_Michon
_"replacing the 3.5in HD's with the slim SSD's found in the air"_

The MacBook Pro has a 2.5" HDD [1]. The SSD in the MacBook Air has no
enclosure at all, the module is placed directly on the logic board [2].

[1] [http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing-MacBook-
Pro-15...](http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing-MacBook-Pro-15-Inch-
Unibody-Mid-2010-Hard-Drive-Replacement/3030/4)

[2] [http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing-MacBook-
Air-13...](http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing-MacBook-Air-13-Inch-
Model-A1369-Solid-State-Drive/4505/2)

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kayoone
They should really hurry up with USB 3.0! That would enable Gbit ethernet over
USB and also 2 or more external monitors through USB2DVI adapters like
DisplayLink which are a bit too slow with USB 2.0.

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code_duck
I'd be glad if they changed the glass on the 15" to plastic.

The glass has caused me two problems so far: I was in bed with it moving
around, and the notebook went off balance. The edge of the screen part hit me
in the nose. If it was plastic, it would have been a lot less heavy.

Next, the glass broke when the lid was closed with a USB cable near the hinge,
between the top of the keyboard the screen. It didn't take much pressure.
Plastic would have, I think, saved me from that.

~~~
SkyMarshal
Talk about edge cases. Have you ever considered applying to be an Apple
tester? ;)

~~~
code_duck
In related news, I just started my washing machine with my iPod in it.

It was a bit foggy under the camera, and started making some screechy noises
when I was talking on Skype. The good news is I left it by a heater vent all
night and now it's as good as new.

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_Fil_
Regarding the 10/100 USB ethernet adaptor and with some wishful thinking, you
could see a USB3 MacBook with a 10/100/1000 USB ethernet adaptor.

~~~
icefox
After they remove the dvd drive the tallest port will be the ethernet port.
Moving it to a external USB adaptor like they have already done on the air is
logical.

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cyrus_
They could just extend the MacBook Air line up to 15" and leave the MacBook
Pro line in the same form factor, "pro" ports and all (please god no more
variants of video out).

I wouldn't mind being given a choice between an optical drive and an extra
battery or hard drive in that space.

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raymondh
Good call on the sharp front edge. That was my #1 MBP complaint.

No mention of USB3? The Apple Store is already selling harddrives with fast
USB3 hookups (though none of their current laptops can take advantage of it).

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stcredzero
Why not a 128GB SSD acting as a cache for a much larger and slower 1.8" drive?
I would be just fine having all of my audio and video files on the 1.8", so
long as my development environment can be on the speedy SSD.

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Kilimanjaro
Plastic macbooks should go down to $799 now that the Air is $999

In delicious colors!

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trezor
The only thing which put me off getting a MacBook Pro last time I was shopping
for laptops was the lack of built in 3G. So instead I got a Dell Studio XPS
laptop, with a Core i5 CPU, 256GB SSD, builtin 3G, full-HD display. For $1000
less than a "similarly" speced MBP (Core2, 128GB SSD, sub HD-res unless you
want a 17" beast) no less.

I really don't regret my decision, but if Apple would just _consider_ adding a
3G module to their MBP-lines, I honestly think they would attract more power-
users. Lack of 3G is such an incredibly lame thing in Europe where 3G is
everywhere and wifi is a hastle.

~~~
notJim
> where 3G is everywhere and wifi is a hastle.

I'm an American, and don't understand this statement. Why is WiFi a hassle?
And how does the 3g work? Do you just get it through your normal mobile phone
provider?

~~~
trezor
Yes. Wifi is hastle because you have to search for open hotspots, ask at the
counter what the password is etc etc. And lots of times they don't provide
instant connectivity, but redirect you to and force you to go trough some sort
of user-agreement where you have to click "I agree" and maybe even pass out
your email before you can actually start using their network.

This is annoying.

3G is basically what your phone has with theoretical speedlimits up to
3-4mbps. Get a laptop with a built in 3G-adapter, insert the SIM card. You're
done. You now always have internet. Always. Anywhere.

No asking anyone for anything. No confirming silly agreements. No need to stay
in one specific place to stay connected. Heck, you can use it in the back of a
car while getting driven off somewhere. Why would I want place-restricted wifi
over this?

Yes, it's probably slower than Wifi, but watch me care: It just works(tm).

~~~
notJim
Ahh, I see. That's more-or-less the same situation we have here, except that I
like talking to the cute girl behind the counter at the coffee shop :).

~~~
Udo
In Europe, they're not necessarily cute or even girls. Also, most places don't
even have WiFi (at least here in Germany). The only way to be sure is to go to
an American franchise such as Starbucks or McDonald's, and only very select
cities have a Starbucks. McD's of course is everywhere but those are not
exactly places _anyone_ would want to read their emails in.

3G coverage is not ideal (it falls back to basic GPRS or 2G in many locations)
but it's enough for getting emails.

I wish phone manufacturers or Apple would offer a PAN solution, a personal
network that every device in a person's vicinity could use for net access.
Ideally, this would be a mini WiFi or Bluetooth router inside the cell phone
that's always on. Of course, such a setup is doable with a lot of hassle with
some very specific combination of devices, but it would be really great if it
simply worked without painful hacks. Portable 3G routers are a step in the
right direction. Unfortunately, they are clunky standalone devices with a very
limited battery life...

~~~
mtklein
For something that simply works without any painful hacks, Android 2.2+ has a
built-in WiFi hotspot feature. Turn it on and you've got a personal WiFi
network that goes out to the world over your mobile's data connection.

I've used it for about a year with no problems at all. If you're using the
WiFi hotspot for a long time and you find you're running out of battery, you
can just plug it in to your laptop to charge over USB.

~~~
trezor
Heck. Windows Mobile 5 had that (via bloototh or USB). It's still nice for
your laptop to have dedicated connectivity and relying on external devices.

------
nika
We run our startup from two 15" MacBook Pros. For mine, I took out the optical
drive and replaced it with a 1TB hard drive. Where the original hard drive
went, I put in a tiny SSD. This works great. OS and apps on the SSD, and I put
the iMovie events and Aperture libraries on the hard drive. I don't know why
Marco thinks that Time Machine wouldn't back up both drives, it does back mine
up.

I also think that Firewire is pretty important, as I backed up to external
drives over USB for awhile and really have come to appreciate the FW800 port
for that purpose.

A Wedge shaped MacBook Pro would still be bigger than an air, and probably
thicker, and I presume would have room for a FW port still.

I don't see the need or reason to go to SSD only. The people who would be
happy with that are likely to be happy with the macbook Air anyway.

~~~
moeffju
Since I did a similar mod, I would recommend you put the HD in the HDD's
place, not the optical drive bay. The HDD bay is designed for a disks that
vibrate and get hot etc., while the optical bay is not. If your HDD is there,
your keyboard will get uncomfortably warm if the HDD is used, and the whole
case will vibrate. Put the SSD in the optical bay instead.

~~~
nika
Thanks for the advice!

