
The Nightjet: A Big Bet on Train Travelers Who Take It Slow - CaliforniaKarl
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/23/business/overnight-train-austria.html
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sokoloff
When interning in Germany in college, I bought a Eurail pass. I would often
take a night train somewhere on a weekend trip just so I could avoid paying
for a hotel. Leave Friday early afternoon, go visit somewhere a couple hours
away, then get on an overnight train somewhere, spend Saturday in another
city, another overnight train, Sunday someplace, and Sunday overnight train
back to work and shower at work before starting.

Was very inexpensive and more than tolerable for the money saved while almost
broke.

~~~
jacquesm
What did you do the rest of the week?

~~~
sokoloff
Worked, usually. Was working on vision system for autonomous cars (in our
case, an RV sized “bus” because of the size of the computing gear) for
Daimler-Benz Research as part of Prometheus.

~~~
jacquesm
That 'bus' still has its own page:

[https://media.daimler.com/marsMediaSite/en/instance/ko/The-P...](https://media.daimler.com/marsMediaSite/en/instance/ko/The-
PROMETHEUS-project-launched-in-1986-Pioneering-autonomous-
driving.xhtml?oid=13744534)

That's a supercool job, I was just wondering how you slept, hopefully not
under your desk.

~~~
sokoloff
Oh, sorry I didn’t get that. We had company dorms in Bad Cannstatt.

Yes; that was the bus. My computer system would often be driving the green
monitor visible on the right side of the instrument cluster while testing.
(That shot is just a camera image, sadly.)

Network of Inmos transputers, running Occam. I’d never heard of Occam or
message passing or done parallel programming when I got on the plane and
within a few weeks, I was pretty up to speed (thanks to good mentorship).

[https://media.daimler.com/marsMediaSite/en/instance/picture....](https://media.daimler.com/marsMediaSite/en/instance/picture.xhtml?oid=7408570)

~~~
jacquesm
Very nice, and super nice of MB too to keep this documented. I hope you're
working on something at least as interesting at the moment.

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stakhanov
Having lived in several European countries, I would say that ÖBB offers some
of the best services anywhere in Europe. In addition to those night services,
they are also frontrunners in other highly innovative lines of business, for
example train services that allow you to take a bike or a car to solve last-
mile mobility problems etc.

That said: ÖBB gets € 700 million per year in subsidies from the Austrian
taxpayer in addition to loans guaranteed by the taxpayer etc [1] some
politicians use the number € 4.7 billion per year if you some up all the
different modes of wealth-transfer (although that number is contested [2]). To
put this in context for a very small country: It's a similar order of
magnitude as all of the taxpayer-funded science funding in Austria [3]

[1] [https://konzern.oebb.at/de/ueber-den-
konzern/fakten/subventi...](https://konzern.oebb.at/de/ueber-den-
konzern/fakten/subventionen) [2] [https://konzern.oebb.at/de/ueber-den-
konzern/fakten/steuerge...](https://konzern.oebb.at/de/ueber-den-
konzern/fakten/steuergelder) [3] [https://investinaustria.at/de/forschung-
entwicklung/forschun...](https://investinaustria.at/de/forschung-
entwicklung/forschungsfoerderungen.php)

~~~
izacus
Yep... unfortunately their tickets tend to be pretty expensive. A sleeper bed
in a 3-bed compartment is between 110-140EUR one-way for the itinerary I
usually travel. In comparison, I usually manage to get return airline tickets
for about 150-200EUR for the same destination, which makes the train a very
expensive option :/

~~~
modernerd
For trips within Austria, you can save up to 50% with a Vorteilscard
(66€/year): [https://www.oebb.at/en/tickets-
kundenkarten/kundenkarten/vor...](https://www.oebb.at/en/tickets-
kundenkarten/kundenkarten/vorteilscard.html)

I bought the card last year and it's paid for itself with just a few trips
into Vienna and back (I'm in Tirol).

~~~
stakhanov
True: The customer loyalty card is a very common screw-over ( _ahem_ price
differentiation tactic) to make tourists pay more than domestic/regular
customers. It's done by most railway companies in most countries though.

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rwmj
I took a night train once in Japan, which while it was an interesting
experience and I'm glad that I did it, it was rather hard to actually sleep.
You can't get around the fact that you're constantly being shunted back and
forth. It's also noisy because of the contact with the rails, and the noise is
irregular unlike the noisy but regular sound of air and turbines on a plane.

Edit: I believe it was this service, now discontinued:
[https://jprail.com/trains/sort-by-type/overnight-
trains/over...](https://jprail.com/trains/sort-by-type/overnight-
trains/overnight-express-train-hokutosei.html)

~~~
saagarjha
Interesting; I find that a lot of people prefer the rocking of a train to the
continuous whine of plane engines when trying to sleep…

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sandworm101
The "rocking" only occurs as the train is moving steadily across open country.
An overnight train between cities, a slow train, will be stopping at stations
and constantly adjusting its speed for various rail situations. It may be even
be adding or removing cars. The resulting motion isn't akin to the steady
repetitive motion of a ship. It can be more like a car negotiating stop-and-go
traffic.

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pm90
Overnight trains are pretty common in India. There are also a few trains with
quite amazing service (at least back when I took them): the Rajadhani Express
between Delhi to Mumbai was fast, comfortable and had some excellent food
options. I would often gaze outside at the verdant countryside as we zipped
by... Incidentally, being bored in trains was what got me into reading a lot.
At first, it would be comic books. Later, I graduated to books without
pictures.

I guess I didn't realize until just now how much being bored on trains
influenced my life. If I didn't pick up a habit of reading for pleasure then,
I don't think I would have made as much progress in life as I have.

~~~
balladeer
I still take overnight trains sometimes and finish complete books, not thick
ones though, and write more often in my diary.

Have you ever taken one of the few trains that run on Green Route[1] stretch?
That region is pure nature, pure bliss. I have also trekked and camped in the
area back in the day when it was allowed.

Unfortunately those trains are too crowded now, and it's nosier, people
interact with each other a lot less now - on mobiles or listening to music or
watching something on the laptop or phone. Speed remains almost the same.
Crowd killed it for me, I could live with the slow speeds.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Route](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Route)

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apple4ever
I took an Amtrak from Philly to Orlando. It was 24 hours. We got the sleeper
car. It was really great, honestly. Very relaxing. Downside it was expensive:
$700 round trip. It did include 3 meals each way though.

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Animats
Is that the Auto-Train, where you can take your car along?

~~~
robertoandred
Nope, Auto-Train is Virginia to Florida.

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usr1106
Weird headline: Why would it matter that the night train is slow? You start at
8 pm - 10 pm and arrive at 7 am - 9 am, of course the average speed is low. So
what?

The alternative would be paying a hotel, getting up at 4 am, getting to the
airport, taking a 1 - 2 hour flight and arriving to the city a bit later than
with the night train. But it was a fast flight...

~~~
PaulDavisThe1st
Not a wierd headline at all. If you read the article you will find that your
point is precisely part of the whole point of the Nightjet concept.

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dreamcompiler
I took the Nightjet a couple of months ago because I love sleeping on American
trains. The Nightjet was awful. The mattress was thin and uncomfortable and
the electric power cut out every time the train stopped (which was often).
Since I use a CPAP, this meant I never got any sleep. Electricity has always
been reliable for me on Amtrak.

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james_pm
VIA Rail in Canada ran such a train between Toronto and Montreal starting in
early 2000. It was cancelled due to lack of ridership in 2005. The trains left
Toronto and Montreal at 11:30pm and arrived in Montreal at 8:00am and Toronto
at 8:20am, stopping along the way to kill time since the trip is usually about
5 hours.

Maybe it's the right time to bring it back.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_(Via_Rail_train)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_\(Via_Rail_train\))

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alamortsubite
This service sounds exciting. My girlfriend and I like flying in and out of
Brussels from the U.S., so we look forward to using it.

Last month we took an overnight train from Bucharest (Sinaia) to Budapest. We
enjoyed the ride very much, and less than $100 each for a private cabin seemed
like quite a bargain. If you have a little time to spare, and prefer to
experience the journey rather than simply get from point A to B, travel by
train is the way to go.

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mchan
I've caught the ÖBB Nightjet a few times, and it's been great.

The only thing is, if you aren't getting off at the final stop, you gotta pay
attention so that you don't miss your stop (they don't make announcements on
the Nightjet, as far as I could tell, except for the final stop). For me, that
meant I didn't sleep so well. But the time I was going all the way to the end,
it was a great way to travel.

~~~
holri
The ÖBB personel always woke me up when I had to leave to train before end
station in the night. If it was in the morning I even got breakfast.

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neonate
[http://archive.md/CSGvd](http://archive.md/CSGvd)

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Kyro38
I went twice on a train trip, used the Nightjet multiple times (and some other
night trains). Wonderful experience !

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JumpCrisscross
This would be nice along the American coasts. There are day trips I resist
taking because I don't want to spend a single night in a hotel before an early
flight or train. Being able to leave in the afternoon, take a dinner meeting,
and then night train home would be perfect.

~~~
robertoandred
Amtrak has several coastal overnight routes with room options.

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techstrategist
Funny, I just took the night jet to get to my Christmas destination. We
decided that the hassle of getting a toddler on a plane was much more work,
and even driving requires frequent breaks. The train was pleasant, although
the quality of sleep is like camping.

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smacktoward
Proposed musical accompaniment: Public Service Broadcasting’s “Night Mail”
[https://youtu.be/WFJPYi3JXw4](https://youtu.be/WFJPYi3JXw4)

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EGreg
Anyone here tried couchsurfing.com? Is it really free to stay over in that
community?

~~~
peterwwillis
There's no money involved, but it's not intended as just a place to sleep for
free. It's a hospitality exchange; someone will host you, in exchange for the
opportunity to meet a new person they find interesting or want to help out.

Sadly, once the organization changed years ago, it became some bizarre money
making scheme for the owners. They employ a small staff and generally try to
keep the lights on, but they've never really responded to user complaints
about the changed functionality. The end result is the community ran screaming
to Facebook Groups (where they are basically disconnected social groups that
only locals know about) which basically gutted the real online community, so
now single dudes trying to get laid are the most common hosts, and new surfers
don't understand that it's not a free Airbnb. It's still active for
hosting/surfing, it's just less useful now.

~~~
coldtea
> _There 's no money involved, but it's not intended as just a place to sleep
> for free. It's a hospitality exchange; someone will host you, in exchange
> for the opportunity to meet a new person they find interesting or want to
> help out._

That wasn't the case with couchsurfing.com when I was involved (back in
2006-2012 or so). We had many hosts who just gave us the keys and weren't even
staying at the same place, and others who left us totally on our own in part
of their house. A few we've chatted or had a meal together during our stay,
but it wasn't about the hospitality and it was totally whether you wanted or
not.

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ThalesX
Warning: long and without a conclusion. TLDR: I like overnight trains because
they sometimes fit my schedule perfectly and the experience can be awesome.

This really made me want to take a trip to see my dad. My father lives ~600km
away from me; whenever I go visit, I tend to stay for a weekend so I don't
miss work and I have the choice between driving, train or plane. I take the
train most of the time, my friends and family give me a hard time for it all
the time because it's more expensive and takes a longer time.

# Driving / bus ($)

We have horrible roads, terrible drivers and it would take me around 7.5 - 8
hours to do this. The bus needs to stop for toilet breaks, in multiple cities
so it's probably a cramped 9.5-hour road. Also driving myself, leaving Friday
after work would render me useless the next day and then Sunday I'd have to
come back.

# Train ($$$)

Leaves Friday at ~20:30 (8:30PM) and arrives Saturday morning at ~07:00.
That's 10 hours of journey BUT, I go to the train station at around 20:00, I
eat something, usually get a bottle of wine and hop on the train.

There, I usually get a single cabin ( also went with 2 people in the cabin,
with 4 people and even with 6! just for the adventure ) with a private shower
and toilet inside. I take a quick shower because I usually go straight from
work, I then kinda chill and enjoy the landscape, open up the wine, start
reading a good book and really by midnight, the gentle rocking of the train
and the moonlit mountains knock me out. Maybe the wine also.

In the morning, a knock on my door usually 30 min before arriving at the
station, it's the steward bringing me a sandwich, coffee/tea, and water and
letting me know we're about to arrive. From there, I walk to my dad's house
(it's around a 15-minute walk) and there I am ready to hang out Saturday the
whole day and Sunday up until ~20:30 again when I leave for home.

In the morning, I take a shower, eat breakfast at the train station and head
off to work.

# Plane ($$)

If I don't go to work Friday and Monday, I choose this option, alas I don't
like wasting two days of vacation for a two-day weekend stay so I rarely do
this. If I go I either go for a full week or just the weekend.

So, the plane leaves Saturday at 06:45... that means I need to be at the
airport at 5:30, which means I need to leave my house at 04:00. This means
that Friday, I get home, pack and of course try to sleep until around 03:00
and can't and when I finally sleep the alarm goes off.

I usually get an overpriced bottle of water and because the distance is so
small, I can't really get any good sleep so it's around an hour cramped up
trying to somehow sleep. After this wonderful time, I arrive but wait, my
father lives in another city with no airport, so the closest airport is 90
minutes driving. He needs to also wake up on a Saturday at 06:00 to come to
pick me up.

Once I get there, it's all fine and nice, we talk and laugh but when I get
home I can't help crashing. That means I wake up somewhere afternoon, groggy
and go eat something with my dad and catch up. Then I usually get tired in the
evening and I kinda need to go catch some shut-eye because Sunday morning at
06:45 the plane flies back home. This time I sleep no problem, but we still
need to wake up early as hell, and then I get worried for my dad when he
drives back.

Note that in this case, the plane is cheaper than the train, it's because I
usually go in a single cabin luxury 1st class (lol, it's really not as fancy
as it sounds, here are three pictures from the last time I went[0]).

Paying a grand total of ~110€ vs the cheaper ~30€ flight to get there and back
and spending more time on the road might seem dumb, but I think, in this case,
it's really worth it. The cheapest way to get there and back by train, in a
sleeping cart is also around 30€.

[0] [https://imgur.com/a/dquwwJF](https://imgur.com/a/dquwwJF) \- note the two
beds, that's the double cabin. What they do when you get a single, you still
get the double beds, but no bunkmate :(

~~~
cripblip
I’m curious which country,a broad to and from and which transport company,
Thanks!

