
Daily Stormer being dumped by GoDaddy, apparently seized by Anonymous - valentinebm
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/daily-stormer-being-dumped-by-godaddy-apparently-seized-by-anonymous/
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mejin
I wounder if this is the start of a significantly less free internet. In the
past if one site started censoring ideas, one could open up a new site to
express those ideas. Now that a hosting site is removing a site for hateful
ideas, I wounder what would come next. Maybe in the not so distant future,
sites that publish mainstream Republican news will be removed from GoDaddy, or
maybe sites that disagree with SOPA [1] or that shooting wild elephants is
wrong[1].

While I think that posting an article titled "Heather Heyer: Woman Killed in
Road Rage Incident was a Fat, Childless 32-Year-Old Slut" shows that you are a
terrible person, there has to be a media for them to express their ideas. If
the government wont "sell" domains directly to people then there should be a
rule similar to net neutrality that will require private companies to treat
all sites equal no matter how much they disagree with the idea. The
alternative to that is to make sure that you don't post anything on your own
website that will anger the domain name registras.

Who knows if in the future your idea will become an idea that many others
disagree with.

[1] GoDaddy supported SOPA and their CEO hunted a wild elephant.

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zimpenfish
> there has to be a media for them to express their ideas.

No, there doesn't. Nazism had its chance. We fought a world war over it. I
think popular opinion came down on the side of "hang Nazis and prevent this
ever happening again."

> there should be a rule similar to net neutrality

Unfortunately, Trump and his cabinet are against net neutrality.

~~~
veryserioustho
Popular opinion had the same attitude towards witches. Times change.

We had the same attitude towards communists and communist sympathizers, yet
its making a comeback in 'popular culture'.

America came down on the side of 'I don't agree with what you have to say, but
I will defend your right to say it.'

That being said, this whole debacle is a slippery slope and that should be the
key takeaway here, regardless of which way your political spectrum leans.

~~~
zimpenfish
> America came down on the side of 'I don't agree with what you have to say,
> but I will defend your right to say it.'

That's a nice aphorism but isn't even slightly true given the number of wars
they've been involved in (even just _this_ century!) and regimes they've
plotted to overthrow and organisations the government has infiltrated and ...
etc.

For a recent example, compare and contrast the police responses to white
supremacist marches vs BLM marches. If your hokey aphorism was true, both
would be treated equally.

~~~
veryserioustho
We're talking about Americans. Not other nations that cry about American
imperialism out one side of their face, then demand protection, food and money
out the other. If America ceased all humanitarian services and closed all
military bases in other nations you would see unprecedented loss of life as we
would be labeled an uncaring nation that let women and children starve.

You're right about the different police responses, though, as BLM was allowed
to burn an entire city while the white people were kicked out of a park.
Labeling all gatherings of white people as 'white supremacists' is
disingenuous and racist in and of itself.

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iknow44
Freedom means freedom for anyone, including nazi, antifa, 4chan, voat.co and
8chan. We have to educated ourself to engage in discussion, i think when you
look in internet bubbles/hugboxes. You don't talk to those people, you ignore
or ban them like google did with 8chan or you can ridicule them calling them
nazi or virgins/neckbeards. People won't allow any discussion and that will
fuel rage, i mean real rage and can get real serious, because they felt like
other people (normies) are enemy, that they can't even talk and they are
censored by blant corporations using "hate speech"

I know another newly created account commenting.

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stinos
_Freedom means freedom for anyone, including nazi, antifa, 4chan, voat.co and
8chan_

well sure, but doesn't freedom also mean you're allowed to select whether or
not you want to host their websites?

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falcolas
The entire internet infrastructure is controlled by private companies. Many of
which are incorporated in the US.

If you hold to the belief that internet infrastructure companies should be
free to censor anything and everything they want to, there is no such thing as
free speech on the internet.

That future is not one I personally subscribe to; I believe in the basic human
right to express one self, and as ubiquitous as the internet is as a means of
communication, that means people must be free to express themselves on the
internet.

~~~
stinos
_that means people must be free to express themselves on the internet_

If that expression of freedom happens to be not wanting to let certain others
express their freedom via your infrastructure then there's a problem. Because
there's 2 parties, each having the freedom to express themselves. By your
saying A should let B express themselves, but that takes away freedom from A.
Likewise I'm advocating that A should have the freedom to not let B express
themselves even though, yes, that takes away freedom from B. So this is a
tough one, because none of both solutions lets each party have full freedom.
In such cases you need to look further. What I see here, is that B spreads
hatred and as such, in my opinion, does way more damage to certain groups and
humankind in general if you will than the damage done by A. So, since there
must be a choice, I'd rather have some freedom taken away from B here.

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heymijo
Two things are swirling in my head: 1) Libraries and librarians are rabidly
anti-censorship 2) The Supreme Court's ruling about pornography "I know it
when I see it"

Libraries aren't cesspools of things titled "...a Fat, Childless 32-Year-Old-
Slut" and yet subversive books have always been available.

Libraries/librarians seem to have figured out how to toe the line between
freedom of speech and the kinds of hate-speech that caused GoDaddy to dump the
Daily Stormer.

These are raw thoughts, but I'm wondering what we might be able to learn from
the librarian ethos.

~~~
throwaway76543
"Libraries aren't cesspools of things"

They are, actually. There's plenty of hate filled speech in my local library.
It carries Mein Kampf, for example, as well as plenty of other objectionable
material.

The difference is probably that you don't fixate on these things when you
visit the library. You don't consider the entire library to be a cesspool
simply because it contains some objectionable material.

Libraries have a strong, approachable position which supports disseminating
all speech, including vile speech. It's an academic position, independent of
good PR. Folks are strongly discouraged from engaging in book-burning
campaigns against libraries. This culture is largely lacking on the internet,
which is primarily run by profit seeking companies who worry about their
public image.

So maybe the internet isn't a cesspool either? Perhaps the issue is that the
curators of the internet are happy to censor, in exchange for better public
relations?

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django-boy
I read that article about the woman that was killed, what the actual fuck.

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kuschku
Honestly, it's not surprising. /r/the_donald, 4chan's /pol/ etc all had far
worse responses to this situation.

The article from the daily stormer, as horrible as it is, is ithe least
offensive right-wing response to this that I've read yet. Everything else went
even further.

Now the big question is, why does reddit, a SV company, still support these
groups on their site, and why did these groups form in first place.

~~~
zimpenfish
> Now the big question is, why does reddit, a SV company, still support these
> groups on their site

I'm assuming you want a more nuanced answer than "because SV is libertarian
white dude central"?

> why did these groups form in first place.

Oh, that's easy - because the US has been a racist country for decades and no-
one has had the balls to stamp it out.

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kuschku
> Oh, that's easy - because the US has been a racist country for decades and
> no-one has had the balls to stamp it out.

That explains why they exist, but not why new groups form today still.

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zimpenfish
Well, they're not really new groups - militia and the klan have been around
for decades. They just like giving themselves new names because, like all
angry idiots, they start infighting and splintering from each other.

Although, yes, the GOP have been enabling and emboldening them for the last
(at least 5 but really many more) years - now they have a whole bunch of
people who support them in the WH that are dismantling anti-WS task forces
etc.

~~~
int_19h
Most of the ones that participated in the march in Charlottesville were
genuine new groups: Identity Evropa, Vanguard America, Traditionalist Worker
Party etc.

And most of their membership is not a split from KKK etc. It's new people,
often with very different backgrounds age- and education-wise. And one
distinguishing thing about them is that they put a lot more emphasis on
politics and outreach compared to KKK, and they openly reference fascist and
Nazi ideas - which is to say, they don't just talk about white supremacy, but
they talk about fascist ideals for governance etc.

Make no mistake, this is a new wave of political right-wing authoritarianism
in US, not the same old.

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Overtonwindow
What's next? 4chan? Wikileaks? Once a company starts down this path and shows
it can be pushed to censor, where will it end?

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kthejoker2
Why "pushed" to censor? They have a TOS, they enforced it.

And I'd much rather have my social opprobrium doled out in the marketplace.
Ideologies should absolutely have costs.

~~~
Overtonwindow
Did this TOS magically appear overnight? GoDaddy has been hosting this website
a very long time. This wasn't an ideological decision by them, it was a
business decision. If it was a TOS violation that would've happened a long
time ago.

~~~
sever5
GoDaddy is infamous for suspending service without notice and not standing up
for their customers at all.

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mgiannopoulos
And now this: Google cancels domain registration for Daily Stormer
[http://uk.businessinsider.com/google-cancels-domain-
registra...](http://uk.businessinsider.com/google-cancels-domain-registration-
for-daily-stormer-2017-8?r=US&IR=T)

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int_19h
This appears to be an attempt by the site admins to troll.

~~~
nefitty
That's the general consensus in their own community. The takeover post says
something about "defending the Jewish people", which is a particularly unusual
way for Anonymous to describe their actions, and is more in line with alt-
right vocabulary.

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teilo
All this is going to do is drive the Reichtards into their own tech ecosystem.

