
The origins of the Nazis’ secret horse breeding project - Hooke
https://blog.longreads.com/2016/08/23/the-secret-nazi-attempt-to-breed-the-perfect-horse/
======
sandworm101
>> Gustav Rau pulled a pistol from his hip and pointed it directly at the SS
officer.“You have no authority here,” he said. “This horse farm is under the
jurisdiction of the German Army. [...] Neither man moved until, with a curt
nod, the officer stepped back. He agreed to remove his men."

I like this story. It emphasizes the error in the title. These seem to have
been German horses, not Nazi horses. I see so many articles and books
reference everyone and everything in the German armed forces of the time as
"Nazi". The reality was complicated. There was much conflict as many in the
armed forces felt they should remain politically neutral. This idea is not
uncommon today. Many members of various armies go so far as to not vote while
in active service. Others, notably in the US forces, see political detachment
unpatriotic. This boils down to an officer within an older, politically
detached force pulling a gun on an officer of a new and fanatically active
force. There must have been many such stand-offs.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism_and_the_Wehrmacht](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism_and_the_Wehrmacht)

~~~
enkid
You're coming dangerously close to arguing for the clean Wehrmact myth.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Wehrmacht](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Wehrmacht)

~~~
sandworm101
Only a nut would think that they were clean. That's an answered question. I'm
more interested in the internal debates, the clash of culture, within and
between the various forces as exemplified by the story above.

I'm interested because we see similar divides within western forces in recent
years. They aren't pulling guns on each other but there is an old guard with
one set of values and a more political generation (post-9/11) with a very
different cultural outlook.

The fact that a gun was pulled also points to a total breakdown of the
standards of decorum armed forces reply upon to prevent internal arguments
turning violent. This wasn't mutiny, but only because there was no clear mode
to determine seniority between these two men.

~~~
pjc50
> I'm interested because we see similar divides within western forces in
> recent years. They aren't pulling guns on each other but there is an old
> guard with one set of values and a more political generation (post-9/11)
> with a very different cultural outlook.

Could you elaborate on this please? Which direction do you think the modern
generation are taking?

~~~
sandworm101
Take the CIA drone program. During the early days they resisted armed drones.
The old guard said they didn't do assassinations, didn't arm spy aircraft else
their missions become acts of war (see Gary Powers). A decade later, armed
drones are the backbone of the program. Targeted killings are a norm. Or, take
the torture program. Despite him being a complete hawk, Senator McCain was
against mistreating prisoners. He was a POW himself. But he lost his race for
president. The new nominee is pro-torture. The old warriors of the cold war
are retiring out and the new batch is moving into senior leadership. The new
batch are much less restrained. They don't believe in principals based on
reciprocity as they have been brought up fighting asymmetrical enemies. Every
fight is now an existential battle to be fought without restraint or
compromise, an attitude adopted from politics imho.

------
smnscu
Slightly off topic, my wife just sent me this link after a friend mentioned
today how Bayer had links to the Nazis. The last paragraph about IBM is
particularly _funny_.

[http://www.11points.com/News-
Politics/11_Companies_That_Surp...](http://www.11points.com/News-
Politics/11_Companies_That_Surprisingly_Collaborated_With_the_Nazis)

~~~
gnarbarian
In September of 1939, when Germany invaded Poland, the "New York Times"
reported that three million Jews were going to be "immediately removed" from
Poland and were likely going to be "exterminat[ed]."

IBM's reaction? An internal memo saying that, due to that "situation", they
really needed to step up production on high-speed alphabetizing equipment.
(Source: CNet)

~~~
delazeur
When I click on the source link I get redirected to
[http://www.cnet.com/topics/tech-industry/](http://www.cnet.com/topics/tech-
industry/), which tells me nothing.

It doesn't strike me as very plausible that NYT would be reporting on the
extermination of Jews in 1939. If they were, I am eager to learn about it. If
anyone knows more about this, please link me to it.

To my knowledge, mass exterminations didn't begin until 1941, carried out by
gas trucks and firing squads. The Final Solution was formulated in 1942, with
the first death camps going into operation that year. In 1939 the Nazis had
already started exterminating some "undesirables" (including at least the
disabled and mentally ill) and they were already operating concentration
camps, but the nominal goal of these camps was the eventual deportation of
Jews rather than extermination. I would be surprised to learn that any Allied
governments (or those who would become Allies) knew about the extermination of
Jews in 1939, let alone the press.

~~~
Chinjut
The link should've been to [http://www.cnet.com/news/probing-ibms-nazi-
connection/](http://www.cnet.com/news/probing-ibms-nazi-connection/). The
claim about the IBM memo comes from Edwin Black, author of the book "IBM and
the Holocaust". The reference to a New York Times article is specifically to
one from its front page on September 13, 1939, titled "Nazis Hint 'Purge' of
Jews in Poland". The article can be purchased from the New York Times at
[http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9B06EED81330E...](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9B06EED81330E53ABC4B52DFBF668382629EDE).
You can also see bits of the article at
[http://www.rarenewspapers.com/view/590025](http://www.rarenewspapers.com/view/590025),
and it is also referenced at the New York Times itself more contemporarily in
the article [http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/14/news/150th-
anniversary-185...](http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/14/news/150th-
anniversary-1851-2001-turning-away-from-the-holocaust.html).

(I haven't actually been able to read the referenced article in full, mind
you, because I am cheap; thus, I am not personally vouching for the article
saying what it is claimed to. I'm just providing to others the ability to do
so if any of you have interest and/or disposability of income greater than
mine at the moment.)

~~~
delazeur
I am also too cheap to buy the article, but I think it is noteworthy that the
full title is "NAZIS HINT 'PURGE' OF JEWS IN POLAND; 'Special Report' From
Invaded Region Discusses Possible Solution of Problem GROUP EUROPE'S LARGEST
3,000,000 Population Involved --'Removal' From Europe Viewed as Benefit."
We're primed to associate the word "solution" with extermination, but the
Final Solution definitely did not exist as such in 1939. The word "removal"
matches my recollection that official Nazi policy at this time was aimed at
eventual deportation.

------
gravypod
I wish there was a place I could go to read translated versions of notes kept
by German scientists. They did horrible things but some of the other research
was really cool like what I've learned about their attempts in creating
nuclear power.

~~~
bbctol
Not quite the same, but immediately after the war a number of prominent German
scientists were interned at Farm Hall, in England, and secretly recorded for
months. The full transcripts are available
([https://books.google.com/books?id=pzNjntMMq-
oC](https://books.google.com/books?id=pzNjntMMq-oC)) and it's interesting to
hear what Heisenberg and Otto Hahn thought of the Nazis and the successful
American nuclear bomb. The transcripts were also adapted into a pretty good
stage play a few years back.

~~~
scottdw
Would that play be Copenhagen
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_(play)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_\(play\)))?
If so, I highly recommend the BBC adaptation with Daniel Craig as Heisenberg,
Stephen Rea as Niels Bohr, and Francesca Annis as Margrethe Bohr.

------
pingec
Since Lipizzans are mentioned. If you ever get the chance, go visit Lipica,
Slovenia [1] it's the place the horses take the name after with a very old
stud farm. The place is well underfunded and nothing special from a commercial
tourism perspective imho (well, except if you like golf). But the nature and
the horses are amazing. I can walk for hours there and get a huge energy boost
and mood improvement.

[1] [http://www.lipica.org/en/](http://www.lipica.org/en/)

------
aab0
Cuts out at the most interesting point.

~~~
zdw
Did you expect something else from a book excerpt? It's intended to draw you
in so you buy a copy.

~~~
aab0
I actually do expect more from a longreads post. They're usually a top-notch
site and above dark patterns like that.

------
cloudjacker
Secret Nazi attempt lol

You guys act like you wouldn't jump at the chance to have your pet project
subsidized by ANYBODY, literally any government or organization with any
ideology if it meant the chance for you to pursue your dream

Aren't most of you guys here interested in VCs, for example.

Interesting story though, any more details about the guys that successfully
scammed Nazi taxpayers?

~~~
coderdude
Investment money and government subsidization aren't the same thing but I get
the gist. Money for doing what you'd rather be doing instead of what you're
currently doing. Sounds lame though. Too many strings attached. Most people
here aren't chasing that. They just want a better adblock.

~~~
bitwize
Literally all of Silicon Valley and most of the computing research of the 20th
century was built on funds the US government plowed into industry, in the
hopes of developing tech that would help us nuke the Russkies while preventing
them from doing the same to us.

~~~
hueving
I think you mean 'figuratively'. If it was literal there would have been no
private industry at all, which is complete nonsense.

~~~
delazeur
I believe the above commenter was being hyperbolic, but plenty of government
money has supported private industry. That's not just defense contractors,
either. Where would Silicon Valley be without ARPANET?

~~~
bitwize
The Silicon Valley economy were established to develop radar and comms
equipment for the military -- before digital computers even became the boom
industry they are today.

So when I say "literally all", I'm exaggerating -- but only slightly. Not
every dollar in the fucktons of VC money sloshing around out there can be
traced back to defense funding, but an awful lot of them can.

