
User testing in the wild: he has never used a computer - tbassetto
http://jboriss.wordpress.com/2011/07/06/user-testing-in-the-wild-joes-first-computer-encounter/
======
ajays
Sometimes I think technology just leaves people behind, with no hope of
catching up.

About 10 years ago, one weekend I drove up to an ATM in Upstate NY, and found
an elderly couple standing there, looking confused. After a minute, I stopped
the car and got out. Both were well-dressed (probably coming home from
church); the gentleman was about 90; his wife was a similar age.

"Is everything OK?" I asked.

"Could you help us?", she said (he was too proud to ask for help, I guess).

"Sure! What can I do for you?" I replied.

"You see, the bank sent us this card and said we should be using it, instead
of going to the teller inside. But we don't know what to do with it."

Wow. I was shocked. The bank (HSBC) had not even told them how to use the
card. And I was surprised that there existed people who didn't know how to use
an ATM in this country!

So I showed them where to insert the card; told him to enter his PIN (while I
looked away so I wouldn't see it). I advised them about the security
implications; and how to always collect the card after you're done (those ATMs
kept the card for the duration, unlike newer ones where you just swipe).

I was left with a sad feeling after that, which I can still remember. If I'm
ever designing software for general use, I always think about that couple and
try to see it from their eyes.

~~~
akgerber
I've always wondered why newer ATMs like to retain the card until after the
transaction. I've left my card in an ATM two or three times while in a rush on
account of that.

~~~
sid0
I believe this is a US-only problem. I haven't seen that sort of ATM in the
last ten years where I'm from (India), and I was pretty shocked to see them in
the US.

~~~
BlazingFrog
First, I don't believe it's a problem but merely a different procedure.
Second, in France (and most of Western Europe I think), all ATM's keep your
card for the simple reason that the magnetic stripe (the part of the card
that's in contact with the ATM when you swipe) is never used, to my knowledge.
It's the chip that is used to verify the identity, locally record the
transaction and more.

~~~
marshray
Is that the reason? The chip on the card is positioned so that readers can be
designed to only need the card inserted about halfway.

I think it has more to do with giving the machine the ability to not give the
card back. :-)

~~~
sid0
What possible use case exists for that ability? The card's generally blocked
after a set number of incorrect attempts anyway, so it's not as if it could be
used anywhere else.

ATMs that keep your card for the duration of the transaction only serve to
decrease trust in the mechanism.

~~~
marshray
_The card's generally blocked after a set number of incorrect attempts anyway,
so it's not as if it could be used anywhere else._

Remember, credit cards originated before there was universal ubiquitous
connectivity. It's still no guarantee (think of a small merchant at some
outdoor festival). EMV (Chip and PIN) cards have an offline mode which an bad
guy can use. <http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mkb23/interceptor/>

_ATMs that keep your card for the duration of the transaction only serve to
decrease trust in the mechanism._

In the past, there were modes that allowed you to overdraw your account with
an ATM. I imagine this was done in consideration for unreliable communications
links or banks that needed downtime in their account balances for batch
transaction processing.

"Trust" is a deep and strange concept, but at the end of the day US ATM cards
are only a mag stripe and a 4-digit PIN. We'd best not expect too much from
them. :-)

------
spiralganglion
The company I work for produces software for users with zero computer
literacy. We're a very small outfit serving a very specific niche. We produce
new and highly specialized/distinct programs at a rate of about one or two per
week. Our users are often subjected to very tight time requirements, so we
can't expect them to develop familiarity over a gradual learning curve. They
must immediately know what to do, and our software must support them, computer
skills be damned.

Almost ironically, I struggle to hold our team to our own UI best practices;
to ensure our interfaces and content are approachable. We're always crushed by
deadlines — the time it takes to be sure we haven't made any literacy
assumptions is time we don't have. It's my job to make developing this sort of
UI/UX absolutely painless. Unfortunately, I get almost no opportunities to
actually test with our zero-experience users. This article was a wonderful
read, and gave me a very specific type of knowing satisfaction. It's a rare
opportunity indeed.

As for those best practices, here are a few examples:

• Emphasize actionable items with animations, and textual and pictorial
descriptions of the actions that must be taken. Instead of saying "right
click", we might show a picture of the mouse with the right button
highlighted, with a "clicking" animation indicating the action to be
performed.

• Use iconography and terminology derived from the subject matter or real-
world objects, instead of common "abstract" UI elements. For instance, a light
switch (indicated as actionable, of course) instead of a check box.

• Simplify user interactions and interfaces to the absolute minimum. Reduce
the actions the user must perform in order to be satisfied. Reduce the number
of options presented to the user at any one time.

In many ways, designing an interface for a zero-experience user is like
choosing a programming language: You want the language that lets you describe
_exactly_ the program you need to make in as few instructions as possible.
Likewise, you want an interface that lets your users describe _exactly_ the
action they need the program to perform in as few interactions as possible.

~~~
vacri
That reminds me of one naive I was helping who had serious trouble relating
the 2D movements of the mouse to the 2D movements of the on-screen cursor.
That relationship seems like it'd be very challenging to explain if someone's
not getting it and there's no teacher available.

~~~
GHFigs
It is surprisingly challenging. The mouse doesn't input position, it inputs
movement, and not all movement, but movement of a specific point on a plane
aligned to itself (not the screen, not the hand) and only if you slide it
against a surface, and not your exact movement, due to acceleration and
stopping at screen edges. And then it has buttons! And a wheel! And an ominous
red light!

A good start is to just put their hand on the mouse, put your hand over
theirs, and tell them to watch the cursor.

~~~
r00fus
Hand-over-hand is a well-known learning technique for children and learning-
disabled folks as well as it emphasizes muscle memory.

------
pradocchia
_Joe knew nothing about computers, so he focused on the only item he
recognized: text. Icons, buttons, and interface elements Joe ignored
completely_

Reminds me of my mother. She had a stand-alone word processor back in the day,
w/ keyboard, monochrome screen, floppy drive, and daisy wheel. All commands
were performed through the keyboard, with prompts on the bottom two lines of
the screen, ala emacs.

She was real pro w/ this thing. She taught herself how to use it, and never
needed any help from me.

Fast forward to her first personal computer, w/ mouse and icons, and she
didn't get it. 10 years later and she still doesn't get it. In fact, it is a
major source of anxiety. She doesn't explore the interface because she might
get lost and won't be able find her way back to where she was. What do all
those icons do? Who knows. She follows a _very_ narrow course through the 4 or
5 tasks that she's familiar with, and that's it. She's almost superstitious
about it.

None of this would be terribly remarkable if I didn't know she'd been such an
expert user of the old standalone word processor. But she was. And whatever it
was about the old machine that worked, it didn't carry over to the new age of
mice & GUIs.

[for a similar perspective, see the discussion over at metafilter:
[http://www.metafilter.com/105309/You-have-to-click-on-the-
te...](http://www.metafilter.com/105309/You-have-to-click-on-the-text-box)]

~~~
PidGin128
I personally suspect that some of the confidence garnered on the word
processor might have been because it was more of an appliance, and didn't have
a persistant state? When powered on, it was set to work on a specific task
already, everything to interact with to change functions or settings, would be
reset if you pulled the plug, or switched it off.

~~~
code_duck
Like an old game console. Perhaps she'd like a computer with an OS more close
to that, like an iPad?

------
melvinram
Very interesting experience. The real issue is deciding on what assumptions
you want to make about your audience. Even people who are not completely new
to computers may act like people who have never used one before so making as
few assumptions as possible is probably best unless you have a strong degree
of confidence.

A few weeks ago, I visited a cousin who had recently bought a new fridge with
"high-tech" water dispenser. I'm a big water drinker. When I went to the
fridge to get some cold water, I felt really stupid for not knowing how to
work a freaken water dispenser. It had a ton of buttons the real button to
make it give you water looked like it was part of the door, not a press-able
thing. The design could have been done better.

How many times have you been at someone's house and needed to use their
microwave and it takes more time figuring out how to make the thing go than to
actually heat the food? And even if you've used the exact same microwave 4
weeks ago, it still feels brand new and you feel just as lost.

Whether it's directions to a location or how to use an app/device, it may not
stick.

Designing for computer illiterates but decently intelligent people seems like
a worthy ideal to strive for. You may never get to a point where someone brand
new to computers will feel comfortable with your app but keeping it in mind
might help guide us into making small tweaks that can add up a big difference.

One example: With WordPress, you can add a search element to your site/blog.
The default language of the label is "To search, type and hit enter." This is
probably more clear than "Search this site" or plain "Search" but maybe not as
clear as "To search, click here, type and hit enter."

Yes, it's more verbose. No, I'm not suggesting that WP should change the
default text.

You have to strike a balance between being clear and not boring your audience
by telling them what they already know but when in doubt, err on the side of
clarity.

~~~
eru
We have two microwaves at the office. One has two knobs you can turn. One for
intensity, one for time. The other has a tons of features, multiple buttons,
and only one turnable knob. Pressing the buttons can put the single knob into
different modes and thus allows you to adjust time and intensity and lots of
other things.

Guess which interface is universally preferred? (And I work in the company of
lots of smart people here in Cambridge.)

~~~
trafficlight
I think the ideal microwave would have 2 buttons: one for start and the other
for switching between microwave and defrost. The start button would give you
30 second increments of time. What more do you need?

~~~
zipdog
I like this, but sometimes you want to defrost something for 15 minutes. I
think a [plus 5 min] button would be nicer than hitting a button 30 times

~~~
eru
I agree that you seldom want more than two different settings for the power
level. But for the timing, knobs are good. They combine data presentation with
input.

For power perhaps a two-state switch would work nice.

------
ck2
A person in 2011 who has never used a computer has far more serious issues (or
"differences") to the way they approach life than you can solve by redesigning
menus and layout.

This would be like approaching someone in their teens who still cannot read
and trying to design a book you are writing to be more accessible to them
instead of your general readership.

It's simply a matter of hand-on, over time. I've converted a few AOL users
over the years to Firefox, etc. and there is absolutely nothing you can do to
improve their experience beyond a very basic level. They just have to use it
for a year and go through their own trial-and-error of learning.

~~~
Meai
His point was hardly that we should design interfaces for computer
illiterates, but that a person who has never used a computer may provide
valuable information on how humans try to approach new interfaces in general.
This information can help us put emphasis on the right things: Instead of a
bunch of buttons, concise text that leads the user. I imagine something like
"Your first time using Internet Explorer? Click -here- to get more
information." would have helped him greatly. (not in this particular
situation, but if he were at home with his newly bought computer and properly
invested in his pursuit of email, then yes.)

~~~
illdave
Exactly. I've, perhaps foolishly, designed mock-ups and interfaces before
where I've used icons instead of text explaining what it is, and I'd often
think to myself "It's ok - people will probably click around to learn what
that does". That's probably wishful thinking on my part.

------
jamesgeck0
My grandfather bought a computer in 2000 to replace his ancient word
processor. When I visited him, he said he'd been using it a lot with Microsoft
Works. But I couldn't find any documents on the hard drive. It was only when I
found a huge drawer full of used floppies and remembered what the "save"
button looked like that comprehension dawned...

~~~
Tiomaidh
Many icon sets (on Linux, at least) use a picture of a hard drive instead of a
floppy [1]. Which, though more correct, still worries me. Anybody who
recognizes the icon as a picture of a hard drive isn't going to be confused by
the concept of saving...do we need a similar icon that uses a picture of an
entire computer instead? Should it be a laptop or desktop?

[1] - [http://cshared.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Screenshot-
xam...](http://cshared.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Screenshot-xampp-
control-panel.desktop-.local-share-applications-gedit.png)

~~~
andos
Why do we still need to save explicitly?

~~~
burgerbrain
1) because people tend to like clicking save or pressing ctrl-s.

2) to complement save-as (aka, poor-man's branch)

~~~
andos
_to complement save-as (aka, poor-man's branch)_

 _Exactly._ Today we use save and save-as as crippled forms of versioning. We
_can_ do better.

~~~
burgerbrain
Save-as also provides the function of being able to save to different
media/locations. Furthermore, it is _easy_. Power users already have their
more powerful alternatives and non-power users are used to what they know.

If it ain't broke...

~~~
andos
_Save-as also provides the function of being able to save to different
media/locations._

Yeah, that too. Duplicate, or export, or copy.

 _Power users already have their more powerful alternatives and non-power
users are used to what they know._

What?! Why should only “power users” be allowed the luxury of never losing
important data? We _can_ make that easy too.

~~~
burgerbrain
I have no idea what point you are attempting to make. Non-power users don't
need full-blown version control, there are plenty of more straight-forward
ways of making sure users don't lose their data than that. Save-as is not
mutually exclusive with automated backup systems, or undo systems.

Furthermore, nobody is forbidding them from using the tools "power-users" use.
The only difference between power users and regular users is what tools _they
choose_ to use.

~~~
andos
_I have no idea what point you are attempting to make._

Do you believe the solutions we have today are decent enough and cannot be
improved further? I wish handling files was _so simple_ that even those you
call “non power-users” ( _i.e._ pretty much everyone) could work with
versioned files.

Note that I am neither saying it's easy nor that it is appropriate for every
program. But it is definitely possible: <http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-
new/auto-save.html>

~~~
burgerbrain
_"I wish handling files was so simple that even those you call “non power-
users” (i.e. pretty much everyone) could work with versioned files."_

We have that already, it's called persistent undo and/or save as. Stunningly,
a versioning system designed for the technologically illiterate doesn't
measure up to one designed for coders.

Auto-save is a separate issue, but we have that as well...

------
binarymax
She should be commended for her patience and willingness to help this man.
Several years ago I spent about 2 hours helping an elderly woman do pretty
much the same thing, who did not get nearly this far and she gave up. The
concept of a mouse moving the cursor on the screen was beyond her
comprehension, yet otherwise she was a perfectly intelligent, well-read woman.
It may have been my fault for not explaining it properly, but it is certainly
true that modern interface design obviously takes for granted that we already
know the basics. Who would have thought that 'help' offers none? And
'suggested sites' gives some bizarre privacy warning?

I wonder, however, how Joe would have fared with an iPad?

Edit: oops on the gender.

~~~
rakkhi
I was going to say the same thing. Touch seems so much more intuative, I have
the Facebook web app looking at a photo album and I absently flick and it
doesn't work... Those youtube videos of a 2 year old using an iPad also..

~~~
a3_nm
I have seen a 3 year-old failing to grasp how to use the arrow keys to control
a character in a game, but swipe to review pictures on an iPhone
spontaneously. There is one indirection less, which probably makes all the
difference.

(This does not mean that touch interfaces are better, though -- just that they
are more intuitive.)

~~~
ern
My two year old managed to figure out the iPad, far better than I would have
guessed. He can find games and load them himself, and uses the safety of the
Home button to get out of confusing situations. He has also attempted to
translate the interaction method to the PC, without much success (he recently
pushed the round "off" button on a monitor, because it looks like the iPad
home button).

My grandmother also figured out the iPad's UI quickly, although she has almost
zero experience using computers, and struggles to work her phone. I didn't
explore how much more she could do with it though.

Surprisingly though, my father in law, a doctor with some computer experience,
struggled a little with his iPad, and only uses it for online banking. I think
it had to do with un-learning his old habits.

What I guess from this very small sample is that a touch interface is more
intuitive for novices, but could be troublesome for those with some, limited
computer experience.

I'm sure there's tons of research being done into this stuff...hopefully it
will be distilled into an accessible form soon [an updated Design of Everyday
things say].

------
Joakal
Funny thing about Firefox 4 release is that it automatically hides menu bar
which I thought was stupid. That's right, even help is hidden unless the user
presses alt or right clicks to enable menu (Even as experienced as I was, it
took time for me to understand why I couldn't find it).

However, if the menu bar was enabled, the user could go Help->Firefox Help and
just at the bottom of screen without scrolling is 'Getting started with
Firefox'.

Unfortunately the first video talks about bookmarking facebook, doing random
searches, keeps talking about how awesome Firefox is and all fast paced and
not slow at all.

~~~
sp332
Firefox "hides" the menu in the glowing orange box in the upper-left corner.

~~~
brianleb
Would a new user know that there is supposed to be a menu? Why would they
click the glowing orange box? Why even think it's clickable? Why is it
glowing? Is that normal? They'll think: it doesn't seem to be related to what
I'm looking for, so I'll keep looking elsewhere.

One thing that I have always noticed to be true (and frustrating) is that new
users try to do as little as possible. They try to stay as safe as possible.
They want to do one thing, and once they find a solution - any solution - that
works, that's what they keep doing. They don't click on strange icons or try
new things just because they can. They don't explore because they don't
understand, and in my experience they usually think that something will go
wrong and they will break the computer if they click somewhere they aren't
supposed to. It's hard for us to imagine someone going in with no prior
knowledge of how a program is _supposed_ to behave. We have certain minimum
expectations, (e.g. there should be a menu bar somewhere in the top left of
the screen) and knowledge (you can't do much of anything without clicking the
mouse) that they lack that makes what is painfully obvious to us confusing and
unintuitive to them.

------
deadmansshoes
In these cases I've often thought it would be useful to have an "interactive"
character guiding you around the application, such as a dog, or maybe a
paperclip for a word-processing program.

~~~
ralfd
It looks like you're writing a comment on Hacker News. Would you like help?

[x] Get upvote for the comment

[_] Just type comment without help

[_] Don't show me this tip again

~~~
epochwolf
You forgot clippy.

------
aorshan
I used to sell computers at Best Buy in an area that was predominantly
elderly, and let me say it is quite a difficult procedure to walk someone
through using a computer. Every day someone would come in that said they
wanted a computer but had never used one before. I would spend hours showing
people how to do things, writing up lists on how each task is performed, etc.
It can be very challenging.

I found the best way to help these people is just to put them in front of a
computer and walk them through the basics. Also metaphors are huge. It is
always easier to understand something when you can relate to it. For example:
My documents is like your filing cabinet. Everything is organized into folders
so you can find where it is.

The most interesting thing was when the ipad came out. We were seeing people
who barely knew what the internet was trying to buy and use one of these
things. Try explaining 3G to someone who doesn't have a cell phone. Almost
impossible. I remember one man who was so frustrated that he couldn't set up
email that he announced that he would give $20 to the person who would do it
for him.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
> _so frustrated that he couldn't set up email that he announced that he would
> give $20 to the person who would do it for him_

// Not _that_ frustrated then. $200 now that's more frustrated!

~~~
aorshan
Haha that is a good point. I guess it was more the look of total despair on
his face.

------
lian
I agree with what I think Boriss' point is – that our interfaces are not
natural. They require us to build a new system of patterns to match with
encountered interfaces of a similar kind, in order to know what we're doing.
Same is easily said of learning any new language, visual, written, or spoken.

But to suggest that iconography and buttons in general are unique to digital
interfaces is inaccurate, and recounting one man's first interaction with a
computer as "user testing of browsers" comes across as a sensational
misrepresentation of what user testing is, and what education-by-interface
should be.

Let's not show an entrenched English speaker Japanese and claim that it is the
language's responsibility to immediately map to his mental model of English.
Learning falls on a motivated student (which Joe, with self-proclaimed "no
excuse[s]" for never using a computer, was not) matched with an expert
evangelist like Jennifer Boriss, in the event of a total failure of
comprehension.

~~~
lian
Oh, but I should add that it is cool to see something headlining as "user
testing" making its way up the HN ranks.

------
hnsmurf
This is interesting but entirely useless. Though he's never used a computer,
someone already has used this one and changed some things about it.

#1 IE defaults to a blank page in what appears to be private browsing mode,
rather than Bing as it does on any new windows install. He's somehow running
IE on a Mac which may be why.

#2. Someone checked out San Francisco Yelp on Chrome and as a result there's a
link for it.

#3. "We shouldn’t assume that new users will inquisitively try and discover
how new software works by clicking buttons and trying things out." That's
probably misleading for 99.99999% of your audience. Yeah, the one adult on the
planet who never used a computer before might be scared to death to play
around with it, but you shouldn't design with that in mind (unless you're
somehow aiming a product at them, in which case good luck with that sir). Put
a 7 year old on a computer and he'll figure out how to find a restaurant in 10
minutes.

~~~
lmkg
Actually, I find that quite a lot of people who are even moderately unfamiliar
with computers (by HN standards) tend not to explore or experiment with new
tools or UI paradigms. It might be because they're afraid to break things, but
I think it's just because their unfamiliarity gives them anxiety and for them
it's easier and more comforting to simply turn the damn thing off and forget
about it rather than plow forward and get even more lots and confused. Kids
tend to be more curious, and more used to being unfamiliar with things. I
wouldn't take that as representative of techno-illiterate adults.

~~~
godarderik
I think that its more of a generational gap. People from previous generations
were raised with the "measure twice, cut once" mentality, because when you're
cutting things or drilling things, mistakes are irreversible. It's very hard
for these people to get used to a "Control Z" mentality. In contrast, people
from 1990+ generation have grown up with the trial and error mentality.

------
pwhermanson
It seems to me that the question of the day is..what IS "intuition?" Most UI
designers will create an interface that relies on typical design standards
that any competent user would understand, such as home icons, menu bars,
banners, footers, thumbnails etc. There are good reasons for this; namely
because many interfaces target a market of experienced users.

Designing an "intuitive" interface true to the word is almost impossible.
Experienced users can look at a new UI developed with standard design
principles and navigate through it without frustration. But this is not called
"intuition;" This is called past experience.

Now, rollover pop-up text that describes functionality may add a level of
intuitiveness to a system. But why create a help menu for how to use the mouse
or how to single click in a text field before you can type in it? Many of
those users who aren't experienced are left behind only because it is usually
not economical to market to them.

------
Mavrik
Here I want to ask a question: did any of the HN users ever get helped by
anything put into the "Help" menu in an application?

~~~
masklinn
Yes, although not directly: on OSX, the Help menu has a search box. This
searches not only various topics but _submenu items_ , and when selecting a
match it opens the menu recursively until it can highlight the item.

In software with big, deep menus with an unclear logic/organization, I've used
this quite a bit.

~~~
ralfd
The OSX help menu is pretty cool. A friend was yesterday puzzled because she
couldn't figure out how to delete someone from her Skype contacts. I am still
on 2.8, she upgraded to the stupid 5.x version. So I dont know if the UI
changed or she is just blind. "Just right click and choose delete." "But there
is no delete, only block!"

She was just ready to google a solution, as I asked for using help menu, which
indeed helped her. She used it before but typed in "remove" instead of
"delete" (or vice versa, in reality it was entfernen vs löschen)

------
radarsat1
The funny thing is that as an "advanced" user I use the terminal all day long,
but we assume the mouse cursor is easier for inexperienced users. But
something about that old DOS prompt was not so bad: you just learn the
commands, type them, and see the result. In a lot of ways it's a more
straight-forward interaction than mousing around.

~~~
Tiomaidh
As a big CLI fan, I mostly agree, especially with respect to launching
programs. But as far as I see there's two big obstacles: 1) Many names are
somewhat-obscure in the interest of shortness. But are therefore a bit harder
to remember. Compare "ls" with "list-files". 2) Many programs (especially
interactive programs)--text editors, office programs, file managers, web
browsers--are, I think, more intuitive with a mouse. Want to open that link or
edit that textbox? Click it. Want to move that file? Drag it.

------
kia
This reminds me of my first experience when I started to use Linux (SSH,
terminal only) and Vim.

~~~
civilian
The default text editor of one of my first servers was emacs. I had no idea
how to exit, no idea how to access help, and no idea what program I was in! I
called my nerdier brother and he figured it out and told me how to quit.

------
sjs
People generally say "time cures these problems" but I'm starting to wonder.
Things change so rapidly, someone who is 60 now and is learning to use a mouse
and keyboard might be utterly lost in 20-30 years with whatever advances have
been made.

When I'm 60 in ~30 years maybe I'll be clinging to ancient things like
notebooks and tablets because I know how to use them, and kids will point and
laugh while they use the modern stuff.

~~~
rokhayakebe
At 60 you will be able to cope with new technologies almost just as easily as
a 15 year old. The reason being you have had some interaction with technology
over the years, so you have something to refer to. The 70 year old of today
probably did not get to ever play with a computer.

~~~
DannoHung
Yeah, but his point is that something totally, completely new, like say, a
direct brain interface, is going to be so radically different that he'll have
a hard time becoming acquainted with it given his existing experience.

In my interactions with older relatives, the thing I find that they have the
biggest problem with is that they don't try to explore how the computer
behaves because the are afraid of breaking something.

So, personally, I think that Apple should advertise it's guest mode for OS X
additionally as a "Learn New Things" mode where they very clearly explain that
any changes they make are not going to be permanent and that by shutting off
the computer, everything can go back to normal (maybe create a simulated web
as well). Then there could be a series of tutorial on making significant,
(normally) permanent changes to the computer's behavior.

------
pseale
This sounds like how I helped my grandma with her Outlook/phone/digital photo
woes. With some things (email) she was extremely successful; with others
(digital photos, saving attached photos from emails) she remained lost
forever.

She could have benefited from a dumbed-down interface for the things she
struggled with. Picasa was as close as I could get as simple photo management,
but she needed something even more seamless and simple.

It makes me wonder why there aren't more companies creating products like the
Jitterbug ( <http://www.greatcall.com/> )--for those of you unaware, the
Jitterbug is a cellphone with very large buttons and a presumably easy-to-
navigate menu system, with concierge operator service for remedial support
tasks ("I need to check my voicemail").

Maybe we have tried making extremely simplified UIs for common computing
tasks, and failed (Clippy/MS Bob)? Is there an extremely simple photo
management app (or something on the Mac) that I'm unaware of?

------
sheffield
The world is full of people who have never used a computer. They are called
children.

~~~
guelo
Not anymore, they start out young nowadays. My 2 year old niece is a pro with
an iPhone.

~~~
sheffield
Well then, they're called babies.

~~~
jasonkester
Not even then. My kid was 6 weeks old when I first put the iPad in front of
him. Babies get visual feedback right away, especially when it happens right a
the point they're touching. It took maybe 30 seconds of training before he was
pounding on the screen to make stuff happen.

This was even before he figured out real world things like stuffed animals.

------
rythie
No search engine that I could find [Google, Bing, Duck Duck Go, Dopile, Ask -
though the logo is close] specifically prompts you on how to use it. For
example they could say "What are you looking for?" for new users.

~~~
vacri
And?

I don't understand this kind of criticism.

I get into my car. The accelerator doesn't have "Press here to move more
quickly" written on it. The brake doesn't have "Press here to stop". The horn
doesn't have "Press me if the big light outside is green but the aluminium box
with wheels in front of you is stationary"

If you lower your standards to silly degrees, people will mill around that
lower standard. I've seen tertiary students reach for the calculator to find
out what 3 x 0.2 is, simply because they can get away with not putting in
_any_ effort. Naives that need more help should get specialised help to get
them over the hump - normal users shouldn't have to deal with UX chaff just on
the off chance some random person might choose one day to pick up a computer
and try to learn it without asking anyone for any help.

No-one learns to drive all by themselves. Or cook. Or read. Or dress
themselves. Would we really want pants to come with a permanently attached set
of instructions on how to wear them, just in case someone who always wore
skirts might one day try pants on a whim?

A UI should be constructed for a userbase, and the "have never used a computer
before, ever, but am trying right now and will only do this on my own"
demographic for search engines is miniscule. One wonders how such a person can
get to the search engine in the first place - it's certainly not like Duck
Duck Go is the default homepage for any browser.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Yet our current UIs assume you are familiar with the previous UI, and that one
depended upon the one before.

Early automobile-carriages (cars) had reins! So you could operate them like a
horse! But fortunately smarter people invented more direct controls suitable
for operating engines.

Example: the Save button looks like a floppy. WTF?

I think there is room for a UI that is direct, not a baroque collage of every
UI that came before.

~~~
andos
_Example: the Save button looks like a floppy. WTF?_

A bit of an off-topic: the real WTF for me is that there is such a thing as a
save button. I cannot fathom that most software requires us to perform an
ancient ritual lest they throw away our hard work.

~~~
Tiomaidh
Both with essays and coding, there've been times when I was very grateful that
there was a fixed moment in the document's life that I could easily go back
to. Sometimes I start making changes and then think better of it[1]. Sometimes
I edit something accidentally, and am very relieved that I'm asked whether I
want to save my changes upon exiting the program. A possible solution is to
have both normal saving and continuous autosaving to a backup file (as Word,
Vim, etc. all do), but in practice that's a bit clunky.

[1] - Yes, I could hit the undo button repeatedly, since any editor worth its
salt will have a virtually-unlimited undo. But it's reassuring to know that
you've undo-ed to exactly the right point--in Vim, at least, the "+"
indicating a modified file disappears once you've undone all your changes.

~~~
andos
Yeah, working with code is interesting because a source file is rarely in a
“stable” state when it is being edited. The save button in this case serves as
a checkpoint marker: “this here is good.” It's like doing mini-commits.

If we were to do away with the save button, the rest of the “working with
files” story would have to be thoroughly rethought.

------
ThomPete
The problem is thinking that the metaphors we use are actually descriptive to
outsiders.

There is no such thing as an intuitive interface that isn't learned.

I had the same encounter with my mom and although she had used a computer
before the experience was just as crazy.

[http://000fff.org/anatomy-of-a-noob-why-your-mom-suck-at-
com...](http://000fff.org/anatomy-of-a-noob-why-your-mom-suck-at-computers/)

Here is an excerpt from the conversation.

~~~
ralfd
Good story. And guiding another person per phone around a computer is
incredibly frustrating.

But it shows why the Macintosh had in the 80s/90s no hidden context menus and
only one mouse button (which is still mocked today). The difference between
right and left click (which is really primary and secondary click) was really
difficult to grasp.

------
Zarathust
I remember the early days of my parents

"Click on the ok button" "I don't see it (x5)" "There is a gray rectangle with
OK written on it, is that the OK button?"

"Double click on the icon... no click twice... yeah, like this but faster...
faster... no slower than that..."

Really, its like when learning a new programming language, you just need a
motivator. My mom learned it to build a genealogy tree and my dad now plays
card games online.

~~~
Zarathust
Try to explain to them that the first click didn't count because the form
didn't have focus.

------
mnemonicsloth
Would you treat a customer this way?

During the interview Joe was "stressed," "taxed," "frustrated," and
"confused." He was asked to try and fail to do things the author already knew
he wouldn't be able to do. Repeatedly. The author was _surprised_ that he
would take failures personally, and described ending the interview as
"cut[ting] Joe a break."

Really very generous, to cut Joe a break from the interview he volunteered
for.

There is a serious lack of empathy on display in this post. Joe deserves an
apology.

~~~
hvs
He wasn't working with a child, he was interviewing an adult who was free to
leave at any time. Learning new things can be difficult. If anything Joe
probably came away from this having learned something new (and is now able to
receive discounts from one of his favorite restaurants). There's no reason to
infantilize Joe.

~~~
mnemonicsloth
I'm saying that if someone volunteers their time to help you, they deserve the
same respect that you would give a client. I don't think that's infantilizing
anyone.

But you're ignoring the most important part of my post.

If Joe had hired you to do an important job, and you needed the information
the OP collected to get that job done, would you have gotten that information
the way the OP did?

------
ma2rten
I think there are two lessons to take away from this.

First, the mall can be a great place to do user testing, if you want to reach
a broad audience. Except that I would imagine that you get more male
participants, because they are waiting for their female partners more then the
other way around.

Second, you need to test with your actual target audience. For Mozilla that is
at least people who know how to use a computer to some degree.

------
athst
This reminds me of those Burger King "Whopper Virgins" commercials where they
tested BK and McDonald's hamburgers in remote places where no one had ever
heard of either restaurant before.

It's entertaining and an interesting experiment, but I'm not sure how much it
can really teach us about design for 99% of people who will be using the
product.

------
Joakal
For some statistics: 2,095,006,005 or 30.2 % of the world are Internet users.

<http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats3.htm>

I couldn't find any statistics on computer use, so the number is likely
higher.

~~~
vacri
"penetration", as I understand it, merely means the number of people who can
access the internet if they so choose. For example, have a phone line through
which they have access to dial-up. I don't believe it actually indicates the
number of users.

------
godarderik
Reminds me of <http://xkcd.com/627/>

------
xbryanx
I applaud the author for doing this sort of user testing. Instead of getting a
focus group to come to you, bring your test to them. Besides the mall, you
might have fun trying this out at your local museum as well.

------
arvinjoar
Reminds of finding a tribe that has never been in contact with other humans.
The importance of the internet really becomes clear when reading about people
who've never tried it.

------
Angostura
It strikes me that my parents could make an absolute mint volunteering for
user testing.

------
Tichy
Now I went looking for the "Nightly Help" item in my browser, but I guess it
only applies if you have installed a nightly build.

------
httpitis
I have several projects atm and feel a bit stressed. In my experience,
laughter will help in these situations and reading about Joe's first
experience with IE really made my day:

Joe: “I don’t know what anything means.” (Joe reads the text on IE and clicks
on “Suggested Sites”)

Me: “Why did you click on that?”

Joe: “I don’t really know what to do, so I thought this would suggest
something to me.”

(Joe reads a notification that there are no suggestions because the current
site is private)

Joe: “I guess not.”

\----------

To clarify: I was laughing at our industry as a whole that expects users to be
computer literate to the point where ppl like Joe have to struggle really hard
to get even the most basic thing done.

