
“Be yourself” is terrible advice - paulpauper
https://theoutline.com/post/7142/be-yourself-is-terrible-advice
======
areyouseriousxx
The reason the advice "be yourself" exists, and also why older people tend to
be the ones expressing it, is that the danger in not being yourself is that
you may wake up one day in a career or surrounded by people that do not accept
you for who you are. And you end up trapped in a life where you have to
pretend to be something you're not. The idea is that the younger you start
being honest about yourself to others, the sooner you will wind up away from
people that do not like your true self, and closer to people that appreciate
you for that true self.

This advice can backfire if your natural state can get you in trouble and
cause damage to your life. A perfect example of people not being themselves
for their benefit is mental health services for people with minor issues.
While a person's natural state may be to be very emotional, current society
frowns upon most emotions beyond happiness, so it may be more beneficial for
that person to take a drug to make them more in line with other's emotional
level.

~~~
xkcd-sucks
Also, "be" is not necessarily a state of passivity. It can be an active
process of determining what your goals and life-quality factors, and of
carving out space in the world for them. That your self can be an ideal,
rather than a default.

Of course life is fundamentally about eating other life, except for bacteria
that eat rocks. So there could be an adversarial element to it

~~~
geomark
Totally off topic, but plants and fungi don't eat other life. Plants make
their own food using waste products from animals. Fungi use dead and decaying
matter for food.

Even more off topic, the only reason I feel the need to comment is my kid is
prepping for a Singapore Science test and they seem to have a lot of questions
about this stuff.

~~~
LoSboccacc
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiocordyceps_unilateralis](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiocordyceps_unilateralis)

~~~
geomark
That's interesting. I think I saw that on the YouTube channel called Ants
Canada. So some fungi do kill living things.

Added: That means some of the answers on the sample Singapore Science tests
are not really correct.

~~~
LoSboccacc
ah also these
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivorous_plant](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivorous_plant)

in general blanket statement about the nature are going to always find corner
cases

------
projektir
The danger factor with "be yourself" seems to be similar to the danger factor
of "what do you want". These are meant to be interpreted deeply, not
shallowly.

Most people are neither themselves nor know what they want, in the sense that
both concepts are frequently constructed for them and not actually derived
from the knowledge or best interest of the person. The first order of business
when implementing either is to make sure they actually belong to you in the
first place.

I.e., if your parents have pushed you to be an artist your whole life and
you're actually meh on it, and if you go through social motions without seeing
much value in them, neither of these is "you". Which is not to say that either
of these things is somehow wrong or bad, but you should reexamine them for
yourself to either see their value and keep them or identify them as of low
value and discard them.

This is all completely orthogonal to the idea that other people should
tolerate your behavior merely on the basis of it being authentic. That simply
doesn't follow.

~~~
devoply
It's also very important to completely understand the implications of "be
yourself". Which is often impossible. All of this is canon fodder for the
narcissistic individualism which can easily make you into a curmudgeon that no
one wants to be around... which will make you socially isolated and ill.

~~~
projektir
What are those implications from your perspective?

~~~
devoply
To tone down those tendencies in yourself that are likely to cause you to get
into bad situations. For instance perhaps you love to argue, often that leads
people to dislike you. Find a way to be yourself and do the things that you
enjoy doing without getting contempt from other individuals and society...
However, there are professions where this is impossible such as porn star for
instance. If you choose such a path as I said know the implications and be
willing to live with them. Recently Mia Khalifa got very angry for being
called a porn star, something she did for 3 months, she claims. There is
someone who was trying to discover who they were and trying things and now
their entire self is based on something that they regret doing.

~~~
nostrademons
> perhaps you love to argue

Or go on HN, where everybody loves to argue.

More generally, the world is broad enough that there's usually a tribe for
everyone. You may not find them in your local area. That's an impetus to go
beyond your local area and seek them out.

~~~
maxerickson
Arguing without literacy is shouting.

------
ohaideredevs
Be yourself is a non-statement. I don't know what it means. Does it mean
follow my primal urges? Follow my idealistic goals? It doesn't say anything.

~~~
Scarblac
I think it's supposed to be something like "don't only try to emulate others".

~~~
SilasX
As best I can tell it means, "I'm naturally good in social situations, the
point where I don't have to think about it. If and when I do, that just makes
things worse because then I'm noticeably self-conscious. I'll assume you're
just like me and need to do the same, because I don't know what it's like for
that to be different."

The most charitable interpretation I can give the advice is, "Yeah, you're not
skilled at this, and there isn't much I can do to help. But there are likeable
aspects about yourself, and they don't shine through if you're constantly
focusing on imitating some external model of how to do it right. The best you
can hope for is _not_ to have such unforced errors, so that at least you can
keep whatever wins come from the real you."

~~~
jamescostian
Even your "charitable" interpretation is obviously not charitable. "Yeah,
you're not skilled at this" is not what people mean when they say "be
yourself", unless by "this" you mean "emulate other people". Instead, what
they mean is "You are naturally skilled enough at this thing, so stop doubting
yourself and just stick with your natural skill/gut"

~~~
SilasX
If it's not charitable, then at least it's usually correct. People giving the
advice are generally unaware of what it's like to be naturally skilled at
social interaction, and think it's just a matter or relaxing and enjoying
yourself.

If they think "you're naturally skilled at this", they're usually mistaken.

My charitable version is what people would say if they could be honest and
were aware of the relevant facts on the ground.

~~~
jamescostian
> If they think "you're naturally skilled at this", they're usually mistaken.

We have completely different anecdata. I've said and heard people say "be
yourself" many times. Rarely have I seen it go awry. Typically the people who
say "be yourself" are naturally skilled at social interaction, so they can
read whether the person is also able to socialize and make the right decision.
But I can see how someone who lacks social skills might repeat the saying
without even noticing the level of social skills of the person they're saying
it to. Much like what this commenter was talking about:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19702757](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19702757)

~~~
jdsully
Your imaging a direct 1:1 scenario where the phrase is said referencing a
specific moment. The problem is this advice is also given generically in one
to many contexts or in writing form where there is no temporal component.

~~~
jamescostian
You're right, giving advice to a wide audience increases the chances of it
harming people.

------
vichu
"Be yourself" as advice is bad advice if you take it uncharitably. It's good
advice for individuals that repress their identities and discard their own
happiness - e.g. gay men and women that force themselves to act straight
(though not without caveat as death/execution/persecution is very real). If
you reinterpret it as "be authentic" or "become yourself", it again takes a
better meaning for those without fundamental crises of identity. Self-
actualization is at the top of Maslow's hierarchy of needs for good reason.
Despite this I don't disagree with the advice to "be less yourself". I don't
think article is wrong and this advice still resonates with me - taking
detours is part of life. If you need to take a step back to take two steps
forward, it's worth it - but god damn it you should still "be yourself" at the
end of it all. If you have to lose who you are, it's not worth it.

~~~
rhizome
The variation I like is, "Become who you are."

~~~
stabbles
That's Nietzsche's "werde, der du bist".

~~~
PavlovsCat
> _The human who doesn 't want to belong to the masses need only cease to go
> easy on themselves; let them follow their conscience, which cries out to
> them "Be yourself! You are none of those things that you now do, think, and
> desire." Every young soul hears this call night and day and trembles, for
> when it thinks of its true liberation, it has an inkling of the measure of
> happiness for which it is destined from eternity. As long as it is shackled
> by the chains of opinion and fear, nothing can help it attain this
> happiness. And how bleak and senseless this life can become without this
> liberation!_

\-- Friedrich Nietzsche

That's not permitted though. This is the framework that is permitted, and
within which we can discuss the difference between "be yourself" and "just do
what you want" in articles of appropriate word count as suggested by the
editor:

> _[Hobbes] foresaw the necessary idolatry of power itself by this new human
> type, that he would be flattered at being called a power-thirsty animal,
> although actually society would force him to surrender all his natural
> forces, his virtues and his vices, and would make him the poor meek little
> fellow who has not even the right to rise against tyranny, and who, far from
> striving for power, submits to any existing government and does not stir
> even when his best friend falls an innocent victim to an incomprehensible
> raison d 'etat._

\-- Hannah Arendt, "The Origins of Totalitarianism"

We have this "open world sandbox", moot and harmless, utterly devoid of deep
meaning, because it's all printed on stickers without any lasting adhesive,
that can and will be removed without any trace or consequence. We may not have
noticed this, but our brain did.

Most "thought" expressed in the 21st century stems from rationalizing around
that elephant on the couch, that's what I think. When I come across a turtle
on its back in a desert, I don't know quite know what to do, I never seem to
be able to help and it's really stressing me out, but I know what I will NEVER
do, I will never say " _oh, I guess that 's just what the turtle does, that's
just how it walks, it's not dying, that's how it lives_".

------
chacham15
To me, the hn version of "be yourself" is "You'll never beat Mark Zuckerberg
by trying to be Mark Zuckerberg. Mark Zuckerberg will always be a better Mark
Zuckerberg than you." (I think this is a pg quote, correct me if im wrong)
That isnt saying that you dont have room for improvement or that you are your
authentic self or whatever, but rather that you compete with people on the
results and by trying to copy their methods you will never reach further than
them. Do something unique / different. Do something that only you have insight
to. To me, thats what being yourself is all about: using your unique strengths
to succeed.

~~~
namarie
Why would you want to beat him anyway?

~~~
Raidion
I heard that if I can't beat him, I have to join him, and that sounds
undesirable.

~~~
drannex
You just get consumed for nutrients and become part of the mark-mind.

------
sudosteph
I've always interpreted "Be yourself" in the sense of the old saying "to be,
rather than to seem" [1]. It's not an affirmation of you being perfect, it's
just saying that you can't even begin to know yourself and your true merits if
you spend your time just trying to appear a certain way for the benefit of
others.

Yes, the author of this piece had to learn the hard way that their attitude
was toxic, but had this person never actually felt consequences from that
behavior - there would be no hope at all for growing into a better person. You
must be accountable for yourself, and if you think you must hide yourself to
be liked or just follow someone else's example all the time - any time
something breaks down, you won't know if it's because what you're pretending
to be is wrong or if you're just doing it wrong.

The accountability necessary for personal growth is therefore precluded on
accepting that the actions you take are fully your own, and consistent with
your own conception of self. It's better to be wrong and learn why than to
chase temporary praise through shallow, idealized imitations that serve to
suit the expectations of whatever audience you value at the moment. Because
when you cast off one imitation for another one, it will make it hard for
anybody to know what you actually value - including yourself.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esse_quam_videri](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esse_quam_videri)

------
aero142
I've known lots of great, kind people that were shy, or scared to be made fun
of, or just lacked confidence. "Be yourself" is great advice. It means, I know
you and you are a great person, you just need to be yourself. No one ever told
this "loudmouth" to "be yourself". We tell those people they need to be a
better self and go to therapy.

~~~
nydel
yes, i wouldn't tell e.g. the author of this piece to "be yourself" personally

------
kthejoker2
I don't particularly like the simplification to 4 letters, but the Myers-
Briggs test does do one thing right: it assigns positive self-worth to all 16
personality types it defines, and it addresses the challenges in the different
types very clearly.

It shows how different people in this world can find paths to success without
all of them having to be stamped out clones.

I think what be yourself means most of all is understanding the _implications_
of being yourself. Self-awareness of the downsides to extreme ends of your
personality - being too trusting, too cautious, too demanding, too brittle,
too accommodating, too demonstrative, too anything that in and of itself is a
perfectly normal human trait - goes a long way.

------
8bitsrule
The tricky part is that, in order to be yourself, you have to _know yourself_.
(The age-old conundrum.)

To the extent that you've been 'socialized into' adopting the behaviors of
those around you (often unwittingly), your authentic self may be buried ...
even (for some) forgotten.

Most of us, I suspect, are reminded now and then of times in our teens/early
20s when we acted in ways that we now regret. In ways that might have sickened
our pre-teen selves. Where were our 'selves' then? Well, as Blake put it, 'You
never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough. '

First know, _then_ be.

------
threatofrain
Whether or not "being yourself" is interesting advice depends on the listener.
Some people are in a context where deciding when to "stop" in a few key
moments per day is more interesting than deciding when to similarly "go". The
person in the article calls themselves a loudmouth, so clearly this person is
focusing on a scenario where restraint is a persuasive value, versus a
scenario of social anxiety.

------
bargl
Be yourself is a phrase which implies stagnation.

I heard a joke once that "past me was an ass hole, and ate that cake so now
I've got to run." or something like that. That's the way I try to think about
this. If I don't look back at past me with a little bit of that same feeling I
get when looking at old code then I haven't grown. And I try to use that to
remind current me that future me matters too.

~~~
vinbreau
I do this. I learned a long time ago that past-me could be quite an asshole
even to future-me. Thinking in this context allows me to assess the now and
try to be a better past-me while in the present. I consider how future-me will
react and adjust my actions accordingly.

~~~
Ntrails
Unfortunately it turns out that nobody, not even me, likes future-me. So fuck
that guy, i'm going to leave that task for tomorrow

~~~
hinkley
Some people aren't too happy about past-you either.

------
combatentropy
"But you and I know that the real effect of salt is exactly the opposite. So
far from killing the taste of the egg and the tripe and the cabbage, it
actually brings it out." \--- [http://merecslewis.blogspot.com/2011/03/can-
world-see-christ...](http://merecslewis.blogspot.com/2011/03/can-world-see-
christ-in-us.html)

~~~
pesmhey
Substitute humility for salt and personality for the tripe and cabbage. That
was Christ’s message after all, right? Beyond any supernatural phenomena, the
whole New Testament seems to be a testament to humility. Like, ‘I am literally
God and even I am not above washing another person’s feet, get over yourselves
Romans’.

------
teilo
Better advice is "Know yourself." That implies the need to develop the ability
to step outside of yourself and examine your behavior, desires, assumptions,
and reactions. I say "develop the ability" because for many people, this is
not an innate ability, but has to be learned. It also required brutal honesty.
Some people cannot do it.

~~~
chrismckleroy
Yes! Great talk on that subject here:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2eWOqz_mJ0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2eWOqz_mJ0)

~~~
teilo
Umm... that is a song by Drake, and is incoherent nonsense. I assume you meant
to link to something else?

------
zzo38computer
You are already yourself. Be yourself is not an advice needed, but not to
avoid it either. Rather, is good to learn from your experience what is better,
to learn better. Yourself one year in future is not necessarily same like
yourself one year in past, so, improvement is possible to do.

------
samlevine
Be yourself. Unless you're an asshole, then figure out how to not be an
asshole, then be yourself.

~~~
benj111
What if everyone is an arsehole, and the only variation is the degree that
they let that show?

------
Syzygies
Conan O'Brien on Johnny Carson:

Rule number one is just be yourself. And that's actually the first thing, when
I got the Late Night Show -- I bring them up now because they just did this
great documentary about Johnny Carson -- one of the first people I talked to
was Johnny Carson and he said, "Just be yourself." He said "It's the only way
it can work." He didn't say it would work, because he's being honest; he
didn't know me. You might be yourself and it would be terrible. But he said,
"Be yourself, it's the only way." There's an honesty to that. I do think that
that's a little bit timeless.

------
george_ciobanu
My version of it: don't be yourself, work towards being the best person you
can be.

~~~
desc
I like this interpretation. I think the entire reason my social awkwardness
has diminished in the past decade is that I've learned to ignore worries about
how people see me and just focused on trying to make things better whenever
the opportunity overlaps my skills. 'Being myself' means fuck-all but 'using
my skills to support others' has some meaning.

It's not a competition, and the universe doesn't give a shit who's happy. No
one's owed anything. Make things better for those around you, and maybe it'll
spill over. No guarantees... but as a hand it's all we hold against death and
taxes.

------
zwieback
The piece is really talking mostly about socializing or interacting with
others. In middle school everyone goes through the phase where they are
complaining about everyone else "not being themselves." It's at that age that
you should learn the lesson that interacting with different groups of people
requires tact, empathy and all the other things that make living alongside
each other possible. It seems that some people, usually people with a lot of
social capital, just take a bit longer to learn that.

------
jtolmar
Be someone that you like and respect. Then be yourself.

The usual platitude skips all the hard prep work required for "be yourself" to
actually be good advice.

------
mattcoles
Highly recommend the book 'Wisdom of Insecurity' by Alan Watts. This article
touches on the search for an immutable self but it doesn't quite make the leap
that there isn't one and that the advice to "be yourself" is never going to
bring any psychological satisfaction.

------
pesmhey
No, it’s absolutely fantastic advice. But there’s a second part of it that
needs be attached. Be yourself, and be ready for feedback. Your self might
just be awful. I think everyone has this happen to them, where who they are
needs some adjustment to fit into the bigger picture. Not to blindly conform,
but to really find your niche.

The feedback may not always be pleasant, especially if you’ve spent a lot of
time not being yourself. If the self you’ve constructed deviates so far from
the norm, you’re going to struggle normalizing it. Maybe you’ve created the
next big thing, and everyone needs to adjust to you, sure. But maybe you
haven’t. And even if you have, you’re going to need to assist everyone in
understanding how you’ve come to where you are. And that’s going to take work.

Again, being yourself is the best thing you can do. It’s great advice. Be
ready for feedback. And be ready to defend your self against that feedback or
to let if guide you. But there’s absolutely no other way to live your life
than to be yourself. At all. Anything less is a soulless existence; an
existence worse than death.

TLDR, be yourself, and be ready for a reality check. It might come, it might
wrong, it might be anything. But do not sell your soul to someone else’s.

------
gdubs
It’s funny because contrary to the title it sounds like the author wasn’t
being themself, but rather a persona they thought they should be. Another way
of saying it is, “don’t be someone you’re not.”

~~~
revlolz
I agree, this read as a long winded article for the author to "stick it to"
the person they are projecting blame for the consequences of their own actions
and inexperience.

------
Forge36
It's only bad advice when applied universally. ANY advice given to single
individual applied to everyone regardless of context/circumstances is going to
turn out terrible.

~~~
combatentropy
I like, "Love your neighbor as yourself."

------
ErotemeObelus
"Be yourself" is the only thing that matters.

"Being free does not lead to decadence. It brings out potential." \--
Shigesato Itoi

------
hkmurakami
Skillful (ie flexible and situation dependent) application of this generally
useful principle is key, as I have learned the hard way.

------
thesash
“Become the person you want to be” might better capture the sentiment we tend
to express with advice like this.

------
satvikpendem
I've heard the adage, Be the best version of yourself you can possibly be.
Become your Platonic ideal.

------
babyslothzoo
The lack of self awareness in this article is cringeworthy.

Just read the headline, that's as good as it gets.

~~~
hinkley
I read it as mistaking the beginning of self awareness for being well along
the journey. I try not to judge. Every time you look back the road ahead is
longer than you thought it was at the time.

~~~
babyslothzoo
I think it's OK to judge in this case given the articles casual sexism and
racism, inevitably alongside Godwin's Law.

------
mercacona
> Don't try to be like someone else, don't try to act like someone else, be
> yourself. Be secure with yourself. Rely and trust upon your own decisions.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTCgwxLOt0U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTCgwxLOt0U)

------
Shorel
It is great advice. For the person who is giving it.

------
true_tuna
How about “overcome yourself to become a better self”? Or to put it another
way “Don’t act like who you are, act like the person you’d like to be”

------
Torgo
What I learned was, "be yourself" is terrible advice if "yourself" is the kind
of person who writes for Gawker.

~~~
hinkley
I was going to say something acerbic about the sort of life choices that lead
to animated gifs for horizontal rules, but it looks like that was decided by
Gawker, not the author.

------
rfugger
'"Be yourself" is terrible advice' is terrible advice... Ok, mediocre advice.

~~~
bitwize
Next on Hackernews: "\"Be Yourself\" is terrible advice" considered harmful

------
v41k
The real surprise here as that he got to 27 without realising this.

------
garbonicc
Be yourself, but don't ever be complacent and always try to improve yourself
as well.

------
ddingus
Yes, be yourself. Own who you are.

Accept who you are, brutal honesty.

Then begins a self talk. You can't really have it be meaningful prior to
brutal self acceptance.

Own your future. Who you are today is not who you have to be, or even will be.

It is all about who you can be and why.

When that why is rooted in your reasons, the change comes easy and it will
endure too.

In all of that is the difference between having to manage a layer of
abstraction, forethought, dedicated to some sort of compliance or show

, and

thought as action, your very nature being that which makes sense, treats
others, itself well.

Own yourself. Others doing it for their reasons will leave you a mess,
inhibited. Don't do it.

Edit: how do I know?

Did exactly what I put here in my 20's. Walked away from ugly family issues,
religion and a lot of hate and intolreance.

Married someone better than me, in the gets people sense, and she did the same
in the technical sense. We made each other better.

Owned it all the day I walked. Resolved to sort every last bit if all that
shit and did, one long drive to work at a time, and one simple choice at a
time.

Starting is the hardest. Once doing this becomes part of your nature, the rest
follows naturally.

Another edit:

Parts of this struck me the wrong way. Comment removed. Too harsh. Their story
is solid.

Is is things like this:

>holistic self does not exist; we are made of many selves that are revealed
through endless experimentation and self-examination.

I would argue the self grows and matured, can become more complex, or
simplify, based on experiences, and choices.

Many selves, to me, is a compartmentalized mind, presenting fragments based on
context.

Those compartments can be resolved as the self-lies, failure to reach self
acceptance are resolved.

Lies compartmentalized our reason. So can simple error, denial.

There is the reason, and there is what is associated with the lie or elevation
of error or belief to fact. Reasoning across these boundaries us difficult and
can be a source of anxiety to some, anger, shut down for others.

The sense of who you are does not have to be so fragmented. That same process
of self discovery and ideally acceptance can be revisited to
decompartmentalize and congeal who we are into a more atomic entity.

I would argue we benefit from doing that.

------
YjSe2GMQ
Buddhist interjection: realize that there is no self (and no free will), and
wonder in which century will people stop talking nonsense like "be yourself".

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatta](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatta)

Edit - Kierkegaard's rambling quoted in the article points to the difficulty
of pinpointing the "self", the essence of a human (where's the essence, the
self, the soul of a car - a buddhist would ask?):

 _> Man is spirit. But what is spirit? Spirit is the self. But what is the
self? The self is a relation which relates itself to its own self, or it is
that in the relation [which accounts for it] that the relation relates itself
to its own self; the self is not the relation but [consists in the fact] that
the relation relates itself to its own self. Man is a synthesis of the
infinite and the finite, of the temporal and the eternal, of freedom and
necessity, in short it is a synthesis. A synthesis is a relation between two
factors. So regarded, man is not yet a self._

