
Changing Lanes - misnamed
https://99percentinvisible.org/article/changing-lanes-watch-median-movers-cone-collectors-rapidly-modify-roads/
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sitharus
One of those machines runs on the Auckland Harbour Bridge in New Zealand for
peak traffic flows.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=976rvgbX6gw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=976rvgbX6gw)

It used to be just sign controller (the signs are still there) but people are
bad at observation. Even now when they have a gradual lane closure people
still get 'caught out'. There's about 2km notice of which lanes are open.

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toomanybeersies
I don't know exactly why, but when I was a kid, seeing the lane-changing
machine was always one of the highlights of going on a trip to Auckland.

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cromulent
I worked on a toll road construction project 10 years ago and the guys there
subscribed to some sort of trade magazine. It had a barrier transfer machine
on the cover that moved the concrete Jersey barriers across one lane as it
drove along. Amazing stuff. The zipper format is even better.

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JoeDaDude
I used to commute over one of the bridges between New Jersey and Philadelphia.
The machine would be changing concrete barriers daily in the wee hours of the
morning to allow one more lane for commuters going into the city, and later in
the day for those returning home.

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vvanders
Pretty clever how they change the lanes with traffic(as opposed to against) so
that their lane doesn't have a sudden, moving merge.

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jessriedel
I wonder if this means they need two vehicles for changing more than one lane,
or if they just drive it back like a normal car in between two lane-moving
trips in the same direction.

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wccrawford
The article said they have 2 vehicles that can do it quickly when they need to
go from 4-2 to 2-4.

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simoneau
Do the cone-handling machines strike anyone else as over-engineered?

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jdietrich
Nope. Manual cone handling is incredibly dangerous. At best, someone has to
hang out of the side of a vehicle; at worst, they're walking unprotected next
to a live lane. This work is often carried out after dark and in poor weather
conditions.

Automated cone handling machines are a massive advance in safety. From a
purely cynical perspective, they usually pay for themselves in improved
productivity and reduced insurance premiums.

~~~
quadrangle
You can't speak for everyone with that "nope". Many people can be indeed
struck with the thought that these are over-engineered. Of course, your points
are enough to convince most of us that the "over-engineered" thought is flat-
out wrong, though. But we were still struck but this wrong thought initially.

~~~
quadrangle
Sorry to be pedantic here, surprised by the downvoting though.

> Do the cone-handling machines strike anyone else as over-engineered?

Taken literally, the answer is "yes" other people also get this wrong
impression. So it's wrong to answer with "nope" just because you, as one
person don't have the bad impression. Again, taken literally, the question
isn't "are they over-engineered?" but "does anyone else get the impression I
got?"

Consider: "anyone else grossed out by the idea of eating insects?" being
answered with "Nope. They're fine, nutritious and delicious with nothing
disgusting about it". I suppose the "nope" can mean "not me" but it literally
is a claim that nobody else is grossed out.

I only clarify because I hope nobody missed that I wasn't disagreeing with the
post I was replying to, I was just being pedantic. I should have marked it.
There should be a pedantic-mark just like a sarcasm mark.

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geofft
No, I don't think you're sorry to be pedantic. If you really were sorry, you
would have made amends (e.g., deleting your comment) instead of doubling down.

Everyone understood just what you meant. (Every single person, literally.)
Your pedantic observation was not new. People just thought it contributed
nothing to the conversation. Around here you get downvoted for being off-
topic, not just for being wrong.

There is a perfectly good pedantic-mark: it's called not replying in the first
place.

~~~
quadrangle
By the time I noticed the downvoting and realized that I was a bit excessively
pedantic, HN wouldn't let me edit or delete!! So I had no choice in making
amends besides ignoring the whole thing or replying.

But I was indeed only partly sorry. Sometimes being pedantic is okay, what I
meant was that I was sorry for being pedantic without explicitly acknowledging
it.

To explain non-pedantically: I think it's interesting to note and acknowledge
the tendency of people to have the wrong impression of over-engineered here. I
think admitting that thought is appropriate, and I'd like to know how
widespread it is. I also was certainly NOT clear that everyone was downvoting
just because my comment was off-topic. I thought it might indeed be people
misunderstanding me.

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ersiees
IN Germany there is a similar thing. Instead of having a barrier, they have
lights to indicate which paths who can use and change them according to
traffic.

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janaagaard
> In Germany there is a similar thing. Instead of having a barrier, they have
> lights to indicate which paths who can use and change them according to
> traffic.

The article actually touches this:

> In theory, drivers could be directed to stay in particular lanes without
> dividers, but in practice: there is a long history of head-on collisions on
> the bridge.

I wouldn't be surprised if German drivers are more disciplined than the
average. They sure are a lot better at keeping right on the freeway than us
Danes.

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wenc
> I wouldn't be surprised if German drivers are more disciplined than the
> average. They sure are a lot better at keeping right on the freeway than us
> Danes.

In Rio de Janeiro, there are lanes that change directions at certain times of
day (e.g. after 5pm), and the only thing that indicates this is a static
signboard. When I first saw this I was horrified, but I'm told that people are
able to easily adapt to the traffic flow and that it somehow works. Also,
Brazilian drivers are used to driving in much more chaos than in most western
countries, so this doesn't really faze them.

Ironically I've noticed that the least resilient drivers are usually those
from developed countries when the traffic patterns and signage are regular and
predictable.

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matt4077
This sort of "chaotic-order" does indeed look impressive, and I've personally
been mesmerised, just watching busy intersections in India or the Philippines.

But it's important to remember that despite all the skills these drivers
exhibit every day, the number of traffic deaths under such circumstances is
off the charts.

Meanwhile, those boring roads in western countries have gotten saver by a cool
order of magnitude. See this chart:
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:USA_annual_VMT_vs_de...](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:USA_annual_VMT_vs_deaths_per_VMT.png#/media/File:USA_annual_VMT_vs_deaths_per_VMT.png)

It's actually quite a testament to the functioning of the American society
over the last 50 years or so that they've been able to cut the number of
traffic deaths by 90%, even though traffic has gotten a lot worse.

I quite like it as an example, because it didn't just require technological
progress. It also included a political component (seatbelt laws, principles
for save road construction etc), and cultural changes (drunk driving...).

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wenc
I agree. It's a systems effect. I see this phenomenon manifest in other areas
of life too.

Whenever you have a good system with average actors vs a bad system with some
outstanding actors, the former usually wins in the long run. Good systems
scale better and are more sustainable.

In the traffic case, the average skill of the drivers in Brazil is arguably
higher than in America (they can maneuver into spots that Americans won't even
try to, and drive at much shorter braking distances without getting into
accidents), but the traffic fatality rate there is also a lot higher.

I've also noticed this in the corporate world. Big companies with good
management but average employees tend to stick around for a long time (I won't
name names, but a lot of people who work at big companies are decidedly
mediocre).

Companies with bad management but better-than-average employees tend to get
into a lot of trouble. (cf. Uber)

You want to have good systems and good actors, but when it is only possible to
choose one, choosing the good system usually works well.

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kbos87
93 in the Boston area has had median movers in place for a long time. Back in
2009, they were 14 years old, and their value was being questioned at $1
million each to open and close an under-used HOV lane -

[http://archive.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/...](http://archive.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/03/08/high_occupancy_low_usage/)

Not sure where the argument on this ended up, though I believe they are still
in use.

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Theodores
I like the contrast with the British cone collecting machine and how well that
works in reality. If you watch the video of the TrafTech cone collecting
machine to the very end you will see how it fails on the last cone with the
machine jammed up.

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habosa
The only two places I've ever lived (Philadelphia are and San Francisco) both
have this machine so I assumed it was extremely common. Only realized from
these comments that it's not.

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closeparen
Chicago just has permanent "reversibles" (groups of a few lanes protected by
barriers) down the middle of its expressways with remotely-operated signs and
gates to control their direction. Must be a higher upfront cost, but less fuss
than actually moving the entire barrier every time you want to switch
directions.

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t0mislav
Btw, 99pi is great podcast.

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maaaats
Does increasing nr of files of the roads actally increase throughput
noticeably? From my experience it's the intersections or traffic from exits
that is the problem.

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InitialLastName
Often they're using these on bridges, which are narrower than the roads that
feed into and out of them, and thus can act as bottlenecks. In that case,
widening the direction that has more traffic can make a big difference.

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bandrami
My daily commute has me pass one of these most days (DC Roosevelt Bridge in
the afternoons.) The amount of mass being moved right next to you can be
unnerving.

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jlebrech
why not just have leds to indicate to change lane without a physical barrier?

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dom0
Because this is very unreliable with human drivers.

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revelation
The silly stuff we keep inventing to not confront the simple truth that single
persons sitting in 2 ton metal boxes on highways leading to city centers is
insane and will not scale.

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falcor84
Well, it has scaled pretty amazingly until now. It might quite possibly scale
even further with the use of smaller self-driving vehicles.

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revelation
Ah yes, the mythical self-driving car that solves Americas traffic problems
despite being the exact size of a normal car (bigger, even).

