
Why Asians wear surgical masks in public (2014) - tosh
https://qz.com/299003/a-quick-history-of-why-asians-wear-surgical-masks-in-public/
======
resoluteteeth
Surgical masks don't protect you against airborne viruses, but if you wear one
when you have a cold it _does_ help protect other people from viruses in your
snot/water particles.

The facts about this are fairly well known in Japan now (although there may
still be people who wear masks in the misguided hope that they won't catch
other people's colds despite), so it's not very accurate to try to imply that
use of surgical masks in Japan is purely due to some sort of failure to
understand germ theory or something like that.

~~~
rhacker
My wife stays the FUCK away from people wearing them - she thinks they are all
ebola carriers. I think that alone is what keeps the mask wearers healthy -
all the americans think the mask wearer is the sick one.

~~~
marcus_holmes
that's absolutely true. Well, not the ebola part.

It's one of the examples I use to demonstrate differences between Western and
Eastern culture:

in the West we would only wear a mask if we were worried about being infected
with other people's germs.

In the East they wear a mask to indicate that they are unwell and to stop
other people from being infected with their germs.

~~~
m-p-3
Yeah, wearing a mask won't really protect you from catchin something, but it
will reduce the odds of you transmitting the disease to others around you.

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Arn_Thor
Very odd angle.. Seems to be written by someone with little on-the-ground
experience. I can only speak from my experience in Hong Kong, where masks are
worn when you've got a cold or flu to keep from infecting other people. Sure,
ideally, sick people should be home in bed, but the pressure to work here is
extreme, even when sick, so you'll often see offices full of hacking employees
with surgical masks.

As for the pollution, the masks don't do any good at all and people know that.
Go up to Beijing, for example, and the masks are mostly not surgical, but
rather 3M pm2.5 filters.

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scarygliders
My wife is Japanese and I lived in Japan for 6 years.

The main reason I've been informed by family and friends for wearing the
masks, is to prevent others from catching their cold/flu, as a courtesy.

I don't think that article (which I've read before) is a particularly good one
- in my opinion it highlights the 'outlier' reasons rather than what in my
experience is the main reason, cited above.

~~~
freetime2
The article does cite that reason.

> A second global flu epidemic in 1934 cemented Japan’s love affair with the
> facemask, which began to be worn with regularity during the winter
> months—primarily, given Japan’s obsession with social courtesy, by cough-
> and-cold victims seeking to avoid transmitting their germs to others, rather
> than healthy people looking to prevent the onset of illness.

~~~
scarygliders
It does mention it, but the impression I get from actually having lived in
Japan for a while is that this is the main reason, but the article has it sort
of buried amongst the numerous 'outlier' reasons.

------
vhb
Something that shocked me while visiting Korea was a friend explaining to me
that a mask is the only way for her to go out without makeup.

The societal pressure on appearance is so high, that just going to the grocery
shopping without makeup is seen a socially unacceptable. The simplest way
around it is to hide your face, and the best way to do so is to wear a
surgical mask.

On a side note, in Korea, this is not reserved to women, lot of men wear
makeup as well.

~~~
coldtea
> _The societal pressure on appearance is so high, that just going to the
> grocery shopping without makeup is seen a socially unacceptable._

Well, "socially unacceptable" if you're superficial and want to be popular and
trendy.

I have a few Korean friends and they don't particularly care.

So, it's as much "pressure" as wearing brand name clothes would be in the
Valley in the 90s.

~~~
Veen
> if you're superficial and want to be popular and trendy

You can be concerned about being popular and trendy without being superficial.
Ignoring fashion, style, and appearance standards can hurt your life chances
and your relationships with other people. In societies where popularity and
trendiness signal and enhance status, it's rational to be concerned about
them.

~~~
coldtea
> _You can be concerned about being popular and trendy without being
> superficial. Ignoring fashion, style, and appearance standards can hurt your
> life chances and your relationships with other people._

If your worried about your "life chances and your relationships with other
people" based on fashion and style, then you're superficial, and those are
superficial relations (and a superficial career).

Not caring about "fashion and style" doesn't mean you're some hobo style slob
(which would indeed hurt your relations and life chances for non-superficial
reasons, e.g. because you smell and wear shorts at the office).

------
glumpyfish
Some anecdotal experience: I travel to Asia for vacations and majority of the
time, I catch a minor cold. The endless coughing and runny nose can really sap
my energy. A friend suggested wearing a mask. Once I did, the air I was
breathing became warmer and my throat and lungs felt less dry. It really
helped a lot. I was glad there were so many others around me wearing masks so
I didn’t stand out at all.

~~~
k_sze
I have nasal allergy. Sometimes the allergy manifests itself persistently, but
as soon as I put on a surgical mask, the runny nose and irritation just stops
completely.

------
ilamont
I lived in Taipei in the 1990s and have been back many times since. Prior to
2002, I rarely would see people wearing them while riding scooters, but never
anywhere else. After the shock of SARS, that changed - people starting wearing
them on subways, airplanes, on the street, etc. It was a major urban public
health panic, and the building quarantines, airport health checks, and media
coverage freaked people out.

15+ years later, it's not pervasive. Last summer when I went back I spotted a
few people on the subway and airplanes wearing them, and it's pretty
widespread among scooter riders, reflecting (I think) a sensitivity about air
quality along with a mild concern about catching something from the people
around you.

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siedes
"Why people in East Asian countries wear surgical masks in public (2014)"
would seem to be a more accurate title.

As others say, in Japan specifically, it is a cultural-courtesy thing and is
about not getting others sick rather than preventing yourself from getting
sick.

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shard
With the air pollution drifting over from China into Korea, pollution indexes
are reaching near-Beijing levels on some days, and air filter masks are
becoming much more popular in Korea, across all gender and age groups. For
this purpose, people aren't wearing any fancy masks with designs, but rather
just plain white masks (except for children, who get their cartoon character
masks). In the wintertime, people also wear cloth masks (often black) more to
stay warm than for filtering purposes. And finally, some people wear masks in
the office when they are sick so that they don't transmit their cold to
others.

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ezoe
Why the linked page and nobody don't mention about the hay fever?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hay_fever_in_Japan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hay_fever_in_Japan)

If you are living in Tokyo and you have pollen allergy, you too will wear
masks all day.

~~~
majewsky
Does this also affect tourists? Since I don't live in Japan, I wouldn't expect
to have an allergic response to a Japanese native tree.

~~~
richardwhiuk
The reverse would seem more likely - surely a native population is less likely
to have a reaction to a native tree - otherwise adaption to their environment
is fairly poor....

~~~
wongarsu
Allergies work differently from things like lactose intolerance: you are not
born with allergies but develop them as a sort of misclassification from your
immune system. Thus if you haven't been exposed to something you are unlikely
to be allergic to it.

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StellarTabi
I do this, and I'm not more than 12.5% Asian. I bought a few colored ones
online because plain white surgical isn't a cute look. I do this because I
don't want my lips/ nose to get dried by wind. Scarves sometimes aren't as
good, but I'll probably be wearing both half the time.

~~~
acarl005
I'm a (partly) Asian American on the east coast and the weather is exactly why
I wear them. It keeps my face warm and moist.

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marcus_holmes
In SE Asia, you don't wear a mask to protect you from other people's germs.
You wear one to indicate to other people that you are currently unwell, and
protect them from your germs.

The article is pure uninformed speculative bullshit

~~~
freetime2
The article does state this reason.

> A second global flu epidemic in 1934 cemented Japan’s love affair with the
> facemask, which began to be worn with regularity during the winter
> months—primarily, given Japan’s obsession with social courtesy, by cough-
> and-cold victims seeking to avoid transmitting their germs to others, rather
> than healthy people looking to prevent the onset of illness.

------
reolbox
Here in Vietnam they also use it to cover their faces from the sun. Having a
white skin is the beauty ideal.

~~~
runn1ng
Well also the dust particles everywhere, which literally give you lung cancer.

Saigon and Hanoi can have very high AQI (it's no Beijing, but still dangerous)

~~~
rizzin
Surgical masks don't protect from PM2.5 particles.

~~~
latchkey
In Vietnam most don't wear surgical masks. We use fabric ones generally out of
cotton.

They do protect against larger dust particles while driving, which is why I
wear them, but as said above, Vietnamese mostly wear them to protect skin from
the sun. The higher quality masks are really just too hot to wear as they do
not breath enough.

There is something called a Lead Ninja, which is a woman on a typical
motorbike (Honda Lead), dressed head to toe completely covered... to the point
that driving is dangerous because they can't even see where they are going.
There was a funny blog post about driving etiquette here a while back [1] that
is sadly pretty spot on.

What gets me is the general lack of wearing eye protection while on a
motorbike... not only do your eyes dry out more quickly, which affects vision,
but the dust and bugs getting into the eyes makes driving almost unbearable. I
don't know how they do it here. Solution is literally $0.85 clear plastic
glasses found everywhere on the street.

[1] [https://matthew-pike.com/how-to-drive-a-motorbike-in-
saigon-...](https://matthew-pike.com/how-to-drive-a-motorbike-in-saigon-
de0697496402)

~~~
runn1ng
huh after experiences otherwhere in Asia, Vietnam is very void of bugs,
compared to Thailand for example. Someone told me it's mainly because of
napalm in the war. Who knows

~~~
latchkey
Napalm seems like a bit of a stretch.

My experience is that it is because of the high number of swallow bird houses.

If you drive around (I've driven most of the southern end of VN and Cambodia),
the multi story, windowless buildings are _everywhere_ and in towns with a lot
of them, far fewer bugs. The Vice article quotes 4200 houses... my guess is
that it is 10x higher than that.

I'm currently in Hoi An and there is a ton of bugs here and not as many bird
houses.

[http://vietnamnews.vn/sunday/features/216083/swallow-nest-
fa...](http://vietnamnews.vn/sunday/features/216083/swallow-nest-farm-brings-
fame-fortune.html)

[https://munchies.vice.com/en_us/article/ev8da4/farming-
edibl...](https://munchies.vice.com/en_us/article/ev8da4/farming-edible-birds-
nests-is-a-stinky-but-lucrative-business)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edible_bird%27s_nest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edible_bird%27s_nest)

~~~
zipwitch
Pure anecdote, but when I was visiting Vietnam (Saigon and Can Tho) recently,
I would go up to the rooftop balcony in the evenings and watch the birds and
then bats out hunting their (insect) dinners. It stuck with me, because the
numbers of birds and bats seemed much higher than I would normally see in the
urban Midwest here in the US.

------
dustinmoris
I often wear a mask during the Winter months in London too. Mostly because the
majority of people on the tube are absolute disgusting pigs. They cough and
sneeze without holding their hand in front of their face or making any other
attempt to cover it up.

~~~
giocampa
Sneezing in their hand helps to spread it to everything they touch. The best
thing would be to cough/sneeze in the arm.

~~~
majewsky
The best thing is actually coughing/sneezing into your shirt (by pulling your
collar over your nose).

------
perlwle
Located in Beijing.

Besides the usual usage of the mask, I have noticed something different.

Since last year, I have seen more and more people wearing non-surgical masks
in public, esp the young ones. The strangest thing is that the mask is pulled
down to the chin and totally defeats the purpose of the mask.

I have seen too many and started wondering what the heck was going on. after
some searching I found that it's more of fashion reason.

You see, with the mask covering your chin, your face looks smaller. I remember
watching a video that a girl showing the difference between with and without
the mask. She def looks cuter without the mask.

------
laurieg
I think hiding your identity and not wanting to be recognised by your co-
workers/old school friends/exes is a big reason in Japan. Surgical masks just
have the handy excuse built in: "Oh, I felt like I was getting a little bit of
a cold".

I was walking down the street in Japan and walked past my company's
receptionist wearing a mask. We made eye contact but she didn't react in the
slightest. That only added to the awkwardness when she found out we were both
going to the same party only minutes later...

~~~
CapricornNoble
This is definitely true for attractive females employed in Japan's myriad sex
businesses. We don't have a decent rail system where I am so it's most
noticeable in the airport: you constantly see women in facemasks, wearing
baggy velour jumpsuits that don't <i>completely</i> conceal their physique.
High probability they are gravure models who came to shoot a beach/tropical
video, or they worked in the sex clubs for a bit. The facemask definitely
helps maintain anonymity when they are out in public and don't want to be
accosted by creepy fans.

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minikomi
Seems to ignore the main reason people in Japan wear masks - Sugi induced hay
fever which seems to increase in intensity every year.

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alexandercrohde
Just because the masks predate germ theory and pollution theory doesn't mean
there isn't a connection.

Traditions & religions have long protected against health risks millenia
before we understood those risks medically (religious washing of the hands,
wiping with the left, separating pork from other meet, avoiding the sick,
adding alcohol to water)

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asutekku
I’m living in japan and the thing I hear a lot (a japanese people told me
this) is that they don’t wear the masks only out of courtesy. It’s also
because not only they don’t want to get sick, but because they will lose
holiday days if they don’t have doctor’s note. So just having a flu / slight
fever is not sufficient reason to get the note.

~~~
C1sc0cat
I think you mean a Cold and not Flu they are quite different things

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barry0079
One of the other interesting reasons. A girl may not have done her makeup for
the day.

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branko_d
I don't know about Japan, but I can confirm that in Kazakhstan doctors
actively encourage sick people to wear surgical masks, specifically to prevent
them from infecting others.

Disclaimer: I'm not Kazakh myself, but my wife is.

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exabrial
I noticed this while in Beijing, people wear them more for anonymity on pulic
transportation than for health reasons.

------
booleandilemma
Have any Westerners here tried wearing surgical masks in public? What was your
experience like?

~~~
Jean-Philipe
I wore such a mask in Bali, usually when being on a motorbike. People use it
as a protection against the street dust. I thought it was quite effective and
I got used to it quickly.

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woodandsteel
Very interesting. I first ran across this in a youtube video
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xDAjGv5Cwc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xDAjGv5Cwc),
and I wondered what it was about.

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tokyoHacker
Anecdote: I am right now travelling in a metro train bound for Tokyo. Of the
17 people around me, 12 of them have masks on them. Pollen allergy is one that
could explain such high numbers of masked people at this time of the year.

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apercu
When I see it in Toronto it is usually groups of people (2 or more) and it's
typically in urban environments. COUld it be pollution more than germs for
some? (they do mention smog in the article).

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sudoaza
I have considered it for avoiding ubiquitous video surveillance and face
recognition. Plus also worried about pullution, though dont know how much
protection it provides in taht sense.

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javajosh
Well, it certainly stops you from touching your own face, nose, mouth with
your hands, which probably has a positive health impact.

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JohnFen
This was a fascinating read. I've always wondered about that.

