
Meatier – A Meteor alternative - mikexstudios
https://github.com/mattkrick/meatier
======
civilian
Wow, there's a ton of jerks here dissing the variety of javascript frameworks
here.

Look, the web is a fast evolving platform. Similarly, the best way to
understand the tradeoffs a framework makes is write your own own! You probably
shouldn't use it in production, but it's a good exercise. And writingcode is
so easy to do (just code for awhile!) that we're getting a proliferation of
it. This is a good thing!

I just wrote a carousel widget in jquery. Yeah, I know there are 10million
carousel widgets I could have downloaded, but I wanted to understand it better
so I made it on my own. (And yeah, I know carousels suck, tell my company's
marketers that.)

We don't hear complaints when people try building new game engines from
scratch. Granted, maybe those aren't posted on HN often?

@minionslave, @untog, @sergiotapia, looking at you guys.

// edit: And looking at the github page, this isn't really a new framework
anyway? It's like... the web-dev equivalent of a review paper. He looked at
meteor's stack, and swapped a lot of the component pieces. And that's cool and
informative.

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striking
Why directly mention people you disagree with? Will that accomplish something?

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jjnoakes
It might. There is no other good way to directly reply to multiple comments
without duplicating the reply. Maybe it will encourage them to join this
discussion. It also is less vague than leaving them off.

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untog
As someone who works in JS day in day out, I'm becoming less and less sure the
entire ecosystem isn't an elaborate parody.

Replacing one monolithic structure with another one because the component
parts aren't right? Just skip the monolith part and use the components you
want.

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audessuscest
> use the components you want

That's what he did. Anybody is free to use it or not...

I'm starting to think a part of the javascript fatigue is caused by people
complaining.

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rglover
Bingo.

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fapjacks
Monkey see, monkey be.

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mattkrick
I made this. Neat!

For those that didnt read more than the title, it's database agnostic. It
scales vertically and horizontally. It's not a framework, frameworks are dead.
Its just a bunch of packages that fit together like Lego pieces.

If you don't need these things (or don't know what they are) don't complicate
your life! Get off HN and build something :-)

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paulddraper
JavaScript doesn't really scale vertically, not by standard usage. You can't
double the CPU cores and RAM and I/O and double your throughput.

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nailer
This is far closer to mainstream JS - with the benefits that offers, eg, wide
user base, maintained version of node, etc - while offering the same 'change
item in browser, DOM updates, DB replicates, other clients see changes' as
Meteor did.

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colinramsay
I like the idea of this; it's really what Meteor should be but they'd provide
support/hosting/etc.

One thing I'm concerned with in general with stacks like this is their use in
mobile stuff - even React+React Router+Redux+redux-form adds a fair bit to a
payload, even before you start developing an app. As nice as it is to use, for
mobile I roll my own.

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b34r
Very true, but there are some promising build tools like Rollup and React API-
compatible alternative libraries with smaller sizes available for a payload-
sensitive context.

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sergiotapia
Is this a parody? It must be right?

"Meteor is awesome! But after 3 years, it's starting to show it's age."

Edit: Reading more into it, this is just a starter kit and not a replacement
for Meteor. You lose everything that made Meteor insanely popular, for what
exactly? RethinkDB?

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VeilEm
Makes a point of Meteor's age and then proceeds to say that they're using 0.10
node with a bit about not upgrading anytime soon. Seems legit.

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ad1ttya
He was complaining about meteor using node 0.10. This uses node 5.x

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VeilEm
Oh I misread. That's a really good point and it's too late to edit my comment.
Thank you.

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vdaniuk
RethinkDB + graphql is exactly what I missed from Meteor :) Meatier seems like
a promising stack.

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ufmace
Looks interesting - I only briefly tried Meteor, but it seemed like one of
those very tightly-coupled frameworks - everything is all nice and sweet as
long as you're using all of the official stuff, but try to switch out
something, and you're in a world of pain. Sounds like this is trying to both
switch out some of Meteor's choices that haven't aged so well and also make
the whole package more modular.

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jakozaur
Nice project, but wouldn't call it yet Meteor alternative. It looks more like
Meteor 0.x, but done with a few different tools.

Still it doesn't solve my main problem with Meteor adoption. Right now if you
would like to use Meteor you need to start from scratch using specified
database. That limit adoption a lot. I would love if Meteor could be adopted
more incrementally by companies (e.g. write collaboration layer to your
existing app).

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audessuscest
Looks like what Meteor team are planning to do...

Very interesting as a complete web app starter kit

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geniium
True! Seems pretty much the direction meteor is taking & is an interesting web
app starter kit :)

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MrBlue
Except Meteor will not be using Webpack

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bartekus
Real shame, Webpack rocks!

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minionslave
JavaScript people have programming ADHD. "This system works fine, but we've
been using it for too long, let's just rewrite it with the latest greatest"
"Angular, let's rewrite that from scratch"

Imagine is Microsoft released a totally new version of C# every year, and
stops supporting it.

~~~
nailer
> "This system works fine, but we've been using it for too long, let's just
> rewrite it with the latest greatest"

You realise this is the opposite of that? Common, popular, existing tools,
working together out of the box, replacing something that's generally regarded
as weird and custom by the general JS community?

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ianamartin
I just don't understand how anyone can make a "best" decision these days.

I'm not a frontend person. I'm backend and middleware and infrastructure,
although I'm trying to figure out the front end stuff.

Maybe I just don't understand what people are trying to accomplish. In fact,
I'm sure of that. I can't for the life of me figure out why you would want to
have your front end so tightly coupled to you database.

Can someone explain to me in simple terms how and where I would use one of
these JS frameworks in the context of a Python or Golang or Ruby/Rails app?

~~~
cpplinuxdude
When I had to learn Python to do my job, I read a few pages on python.org, and
one of the things it mentioned was that 'a python developer can do in a month
what a C++ developer can do in a year".

Expressive, concise code is always a good thing.

Meteor is excellent for MVPs and POCs; there are a lot of people out there
with big ideas, but limited budgets to test out those ideas.

In Meteor, you can access your collections from the client and the server; and
the vast number of packages on atmosphere makes writing a webapp in Meteor
feel more like assembling lego than anything.

The speed at which we can write software is tightly correlated with our
ability to innovate quickly; test things out, keep what works and throw away
what doesn't.

I've developed things for clients in Meteor, in a matter of weeks what others
have failed to deliver in year

90% or so startups fail, not because your front and backend were too tightly
coupled, but because of a whole variety of other reasons. Given that most of
that code will end up in the bin anyway, might as well focus on quantity, and
switch to something more robust when need be.

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Skywing
How does this do server side rendering but also uses local storage for storing
auth token?

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ranyefet
This is the exact same stack and components i was thinking about for a while,
nice job integrating everything together!

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Kiro
You should capitalize the M in the title.

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Kiro
People downvoting me: the title was something completely different when I
wrote this.

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maerF0x0
My main wish is that it was written in Go. Maybe I'll do that someday. Maybe.

