
MacBook Pro gets Retina Display; MacBook Air updated with Ivy Bridge - sciurus
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/06/macbook-pro-gets-retina-display-macbook-air-also-updated-with-ivy-bridge/
======
natural219
I have been a Windows user my whole life. As a hacker who has recently moved
to San Francisco, I've continuously battled Apple fanboys and Linux fanatics
alike on why I love Windows and absolutely do not understand why people want
to switch platforms.

Then I watched this keynote.

I'm buying a Macbook Pro.

~~~
ageektrapped
Speaking as a Windows user who uses a Mac for dev on iOS: you will be
frustrated by Mac OS, at least initially. I've been using Mac OS daily for
over a year and I still find Windows superior in many ways. This is my
opinion, of course. Not trying to change minds or trolling.

That retina display is dead sexy though.

~~~
breckinloggins
I love my Mac (as I said in my reply to OP), but I agree that Mac OS takes
some getting used to. Luckily I had some Linux experience before switching so
I felt right at home at the terminal. But some things still feel odd to me,
even after several years.

\- The unified menu bar makes sense and saves space, but it's still somewhat
disconcerting to someone who is used to their menus having some spatial
context with what they are controlling.

\- I've always hated the "three gumballs". I much prefer Windows' minimize,
maximize, and quit windows controls. Again, the "maximum useful size" feature
makes sense, but it's almost never what I want. I really miss Aero snap. There
are some programs that will help you out for this stuff. I'm pretty partial to
Moom myself. UPDATE: Moom JUST got updated with a "snap to corners" feature. I
like it!

\- The Finder is still pretty brain-dead. Windows explorer is much better for
a power-user.

\- And then there's XCode. Oh how I miss Visual Studio. Yes, XCode is getting
nicer by the year, but I also do Windows development on my Parallels VM so I'm
constantly reminded of how much nicer it is to code C# in Visual Studio than
Objective-C in XCode (and I don't even mind Objective-C as a language).

~~~
mwyvern
It always shocks me tha Finder doesn't have cmd-X cut... cutting is by far the
most frequent operation I do in other non-dual-pane file managers. But what do
you like better about windows explorer? Finder's "view as columns" makes it
feel a little bit more powerful to me.

~~~
falling
it doesn't have Cut, but it now (as of Lion, I think), Move Here as an
alternative to Paste, use it with Cmd-Opt-V.

~~~
mwyvern
Thank you!

------
untog
Once you go Air, you never go back. And this year's Air announcement (like
last year's) is pretty 'meh', so I'll be keeping with my old faithful 2010 Air
for the time being. The retina displays are fantastic, but as a web dev I'm
already dreading the merry havoc it's going to wreak with images on web pages.

On a wider note, I feel myself... drifting away from all of this. In previous
years I would have been all over WWDC live blogs and so on- this year I'm
already fed up with my Twitter stream being filled with it, and am dreading
the Hacker News front page being liberally coated with Apple. I am happy to
just read the post-game analysis after the fact. Reality Distortion Field
Fatigue, perhaps?

~~~
sciurus
The option of 8GB of RAM is nice, since the RAM isn't upgradable.

~~~
rdl
2010 Air did t have AES-NI either, which made FileVault slow. 2011 MBA just
lacks 8gb; I think I will be sticking with mine since I do my heavy VM work on
another machine.

Lack of gigabit Ethernet on the big pro air makes me sad, though.

~~~
stock_toaster
Integrated gigabit. There is apparently going to be a thunderbolt gigabit
ethernet dongle, and thunderbolt can actually support gigabit speeds.

~~~
veemjeem
There's already a thunderbolt gigabit ethernet dongle called the "thunderbolt
display", although it's probably too big for people to carry around with them.

~~~
neilc
Well, there's also already (as of today anyway) a thunderbolt to gigabit
ethernet adapter for $29.

<http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD463ZM/A?fnode=MTY1NDA3Ng>

------
icegreentea
Should clear this up. There is an updated MacBook Air line (11" and 13").
There is an updated MacBook Pro line (13" and 15" with 'normal' screen, same
chassis and updated internals). And then there is a new 15" MacBook Pro with a
2880 x 1800 screen and is 0.71" thick. I like to dub this one the MacBook Pro
Air.

~~~
megablast
So the Air do not have the retina display? The 15" pro would be good, but can
not go back to a mechanical hdd.

~~~
jmelloy
The 15" Pro with the retina display is SSD.

~~~
megablast
Just read that as well, which makes it a very valid option. Would be great to
develop on a screen like this.

------
LaSombra
I don't want a "Retina display", I want a true 1920x1080 on my 15" MBP. Apple
is trying to impose that density is the same thing as resolution, which is
not. A "Retina display" of 2880x1800 is just a "better" 1440x900. Give me the
option to choose between double pixels and real pixels and I'll buy thee.

~~~
jiggy2011
What would happen if you ran Windows or Linux on the MBP? What resolution
would you get?

~~~
RandallBrown
Windows has had High DPI mode for quite awhile. Not sure if that will be
compatible with the new MPB, but it should help. Too bad most windows apps are
fairly broken in high DPI mode.

~~~
sahaskatta
I've tried using the 125% and 150% DPI modes in Windows 7 on a 1080p display
and the support is still rather primitive. My HP ENVY 15 actually shipped with
125% mode enabled by default. Lots of icons, graphical elements, and many
fonts become blurry/pixelated when enabled.

I'm guessing a reason we haven't seen high DPI screens from Dell/HP/Sony/etc
is partially because the Windows OS doesn't really support it that well just
yet. Hopefully things have changed in Windows 8.

------
breckinloggins
This may sound weird, but I'm most curious to see how the terminal looks on a
retina display (when Apple or someone like iTerm makes one for it). I think
having paper-resolution monospaced fonts will be awesome.

~~~
flixic
I know that true hackers don't anti-alias monotype fonts, but I have been
using anti-aliased Consolas for a few years now. It is a font best-designed
coding books use (<http://www.abookapart.com/>), and it should only look
better, not worse, on print-like display.

~~~
dasil003
> _I know that true hackers don't anti-alias monotype fonts_

That may be true, but they're going to need a monocle if they want to see 9-pt
courier at native resolution on one of these bad boys.

~~~
nickheer
The system will upscale it to the same physical height by doubling the pixel
size of it. No monocle needed (though highly recommended for its long-lasting
style).

------
robomartin
I am platform agnostic.

That said, the one thing that continues to concern me with Apple is the
continuation of their closed philosophy. The Mac App Store being the latest
incarnation of their quest for total control. I, frankly, don't know what to
make of it.

An Apple ecosystem would have no competitors. Like it or not, Microsoft
enabled an incredible level of global competition that, ultimately, has been
responsible for bringing us the Internet as we know it. Stop and think about
what I just said before you disagree. Nearly all of the hardware developments
in the last thirty years have come on the backs of the MS platform. You can
build inexpensive and powerful servers today because of MS. Same with Linux
and other advances. They lit the fire that triggered an incredible
evolutionary chain in both consumer and professional computing.

While I understand why Apple does it this way --and they are fully entitled to
do so-- I would not want to see a world where their computers are adopted en-
masse unless they let go and break the chains.

~~~
saturdaysaint
_Like it or not, Microsoft enabled an incredible level of global competition
that, ultimately, has been responsible for bringing us the Internet as we know
it_

That's pretty rich. Networking was a fundamental feature of many operating
systems that predate Microsoft's existence . The first web browser was
developed not on Windows, but the precursor to OSX (NextSTEP) and MS played
catch up in basic browser features around the web's early years. The vast
majority of servers are Linux based.

It's silly to attribute the rise of commodity PC hardware to them as well -
it's only their lawsuits that prevented Linux from seeing widespread
distribution, which would have enabled just as much innovation.

~~~
robomartin
Re-read what I wrote and think about it. I knew it would be open for creative
interpretations like yours.

I did not attribute the Internet to Microsoft.

What I said is that "Microsoft enabled an incredible level of global
competition" and it is this competition that, in turn, allowed the internet to
evolve into what we have today.

Yes, networking existed way before MS.

Yes, TBL wrote the first browser on NS.

Yes, MS played catch-up with browsers.

That is not the point.

Linux didn't begin life until 1991. By that time the MS-ecosystem-driven PC
evolution was very well under way. Linus Torvalds wrote the initial version of
Linux on a '386 based PC. By that time PC clones ruled the world. The
evolution had gone through the 8086, 80186 and 80286 processors. Machines cost
a fraction of what the original true IBM PC cost, were faster and did a lot
more.

None of this would have happened with a closed hardware model. In fact, it did
not. Apple was around at the same time, of course. They focused on keeping it
all to themselves. MS, in turn, just did the software and let everyone else
figure out the hardware. Yes, it was chaotic but it worked.

As the internet begun to heat-up it was Linux running on PC hardware that made
it explode. The internet required hardware to grow and explode into every
corner of the world. It was the cheap PC hardware that resulted from the
evolution of the PC around the MS software that, among other things, enabled
the internet to explode like it did. Nobody can even attempt to credit Apple
with any of that.

Again, I am not anti-Apple here. Among other things, I develop iOS apps and
have a nearly equal number of Windows and MacOS machine in the shop. I will
likely buy more Apple hardware in the next few months. No issues there.

My original post was not about bashing Apple, it was to highlight my concern
for the increasing closed-everything (not just hardware) approach Apple is
taking --which is a fact. In some cases it is almost despotic. As a developer,
that concerns me a great deal. As a consumer, I prefer to see competition at
all levels. I'd really like to see Apple open-up.

    
    
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Linux
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Apple_Inc.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_personal_computers#The_IBM_PC
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_browser
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_web_browsers
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WorldWideWeb
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosaic_(web_browser)
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_web_browsers

~~~
geoka9
_MS, in turn, just did the software and let everyone else figure out the
hardware._

Microsoft had nothing to do with the openness of the PC architecture. By the
time MS had any influence, the PC market had already been well established
with several manufacturers churning out PC clones.

 _It was the cheap PC hardware that resulted from the evolution of the PC
around the MS software..._

Isn't it the other way around? At least in the beginning, the MS software
seemed to evolve around advances in the PC hardware. At some point Microsoft
probably got enough leverage to influence the process, but another company (or
a consortium of companies) would have probably got to do that if MS had not
been around.

~~~
userulluipeste
"Microsoft had nothing to do with the openness of the PC architecture."
Actually, it does! You've mentioned Microsoft leverage - it could have been
used a lot more Apple-like way, to impose a "Microsoft Application Store" or
something, to racket every software company, to pillage every developer with
"rights to develop" licences and to take "it's rightful cut" from every
product sold on Windows. All those could induce a strong feeling of closeness.
Yet, all those didn't happened under Microsoft rule. Those "goodies" we come
to enjoy first-hand only in the great Apple garden!

"...another company (or a consortium of companies) would have probably got to
do that if MS had not been around." I am glad it wasn't Apple or another one
with an Apple-like vision. It would have been a curse on the computing
industry.

------
petedoyle
I'm really hoping it can drive three external monitors... Looks somewhat
promising:

    
    
        * Two Thunderbolt[/DisplayPort?] ports
        * One HDMI port
        * A Geforce 650M (capable of driving 4 active displays [1]).
    

[1] [http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-
GT-650M.71887.0....](http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-
GT-650M.71887.0.html)

EDIT: "Up to two external displays" (thanks dsirijus)

~~~
r00fus
If you are hacking or doing office work (and not gaming), you can easily
support an additional 1080p monitor over USB2 using DisplayLink tech. I did it
in a former life using a 13" MBP and over a Belkin USB2 hub, even with no
glitches.

With USB3 now, you could probably run several. I bet you could get 4 HD
monitors easy.

~~~
dsirijus
"Up to two external displays."

<http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/>

~~~
veemjeem
2 external displays at the full thunderbolt display (2560 x 1600) resolution.
I'm betting you could do more displays if the resolution is lower, however I
don't think you can buy external displays with lower resolution that use the
thunderbolt port.

------
phamilton
I'm curious about Magsafe2. As a student, knowing that 20% of students on
campus (those with Apple computers) use the same charger as me, I find it
really easy to borrow a cable for 20 minutes to get charged up for class. I'm
guessing Magsafe2 isn't compatible with traditional magsafe.

~~~
ropiku
Update: It's not but they sell a $9.99 adapter "The MagSafe to MagSafe 2
Converter allows you to use the MagSafe connector on your LED Cinema Display,
Thunderbolt Display, or MagSafe Power Adapter to charge your MagSafe
2-equipped Mac computer."

It looks and I would guess it would be magsafe 1 compatible. Maybe it has
extra features or power to it. Pretty much any MB* can be charged on any power
adapter albeit slower (or not at all if heavily using it).

~~~
wahnfrieden
It's thinner than Magsafe1, so no. Time to buy all new power adapters!

~~~
jarek
Magsafe is six years old, so I'm willing to cut Apple a break on that one.

------
bratsche
I'm curious to know how Mac handles apps moving between a Retina Display Mac
and a non-Retina display (Thunderbolt, whatever). Apps need to be updated to
handle retina, otherwise they draw double pixels.. so what happens when you
have a window that's halfway between a Retina and non-Retina?

My two guesses: 1\. The entire window draws as doubled pixels, as if it didn't
support Retina at all 2\. The window gets two separate paint events, one
retina and one non-retina.

Anyone know how this works yet?

~~~
speleding
I don't think apps need to be updated, the OS will just send two separate
screen redraws to the app. If you put a window half on an 8-bit color screen
and half on a 16-bit color screen it works fine too, I don't see why this
would be different.

------
tibbon
Perhaps I'm the only one, but I'm really waiting and praying for a new Mac Pro
system and 30" Retina displays. Its been since 2010 for an update on the Mac
Pro. Currently, I can't fathom why anyone would purchase them given the price.
But the laptops have never felt capable enough for fulltime use for HD video
editing (or 2K or 4K...)

Unless there's a "just one more thing" with these, it seems that the Mac Pro
appears more and more dead.

~~~
kitsune_
The Mac Pro is dead. Many audio and video guys I know have already switched to
PC or built / bought a Hackintosh.

~~~
batista
You probably not know that many pro audio and video guys then...

------
electrograv
This may be a bit off-topic, but I have to wonder why I see laptop screens
with much higher resolution than desktop monitors. It just seems so backwards
(in terms of practical use) that as screen size increases, the screen
resolution seems to _decrease_. So now in many ways most desktop rigs are
inferior to a 15" laptop as far as productivity goes.

My intuition for the cause, is that the more surface area of the screen, the
harder it is to consistently manufacture the panels without defects. But I'm
not convinced because I'd imagine such incredibly high resolutions on laptop
panels must be pretty demanding technology as well.

I just want 2880x1880 30" monitors for my office :)

~~~
jarek
I don't think that really holds. I had a cheap 2048x1152 23" monitor in 2009.
Excepting very rare 2048x1536 15" laptop displays, it was comparable in pixel
count to the previously-top 1920x1200 laptop resolution. The iMacs have had a
2560x1440 27" option since 2009 and I'd expect the next update to go higher.
There have been 2560x1440 or similar 30" displays for a while, my boss was
using one in early 2009 or so, 2880x1880 or higher can't be far off.

Since you're comparing with "most desktop rigs", you should also remember that
most 15" laptops are 1280x800 or 1440x900.

~~~
orangecat
_you should also remember that most 15" laptops are 1280x800 or 1440x900._

Today, most are the appalling 1366x768. I have to give Apple major points for
sticking with decent resolutions and 16:10.

~~~
jarek
I love when this gets brought up because Apple was one of the first to move
from 4:3 to 16:10 in the first place.

------
saturdaysaint
As a 2011 MacBook Air user, my biggest envy is USB 3.0. Thunderbolt
accessories have been few and far between, and then priced at an exorbitant
premium.

But hey, they finally made a Thunderbolt Firewire adapter cable.

~~~
notatoad
USB 3 accessories are pretty far and few between too, aren't they? What do you
actually want to plug in to that port?

~~~
adrianhoward
My external hard drive :-)

I throw a lot of data around. I like backups. The difference between USB2 and
USB3 will be non-trivial for me.

~~~
jsz0
Seagate has a $99 ThunderBolt dock available but figure an extra $50 for a
cable to go with it. It's designed for their GoFlex enclosures but I think it
works fine with a bare drive too.

------
trimbo
It looks great. But I think I'm waiting to see how hot this machine gets. It's
more compact and still has an 85W power adapter. Because of the higher DPI,
it's pushing a lot more pixels even doing menial stuff.

For perspective: my (larger) 2010 MBP 15" w/SSD gets very warm even when not
doing anything with the GPU. Compiling in IntelliJ will get it to burn your
lap off. When I've tried to use it to play games, it practically melts itself.

~~~
jamesaguilar
The GT 650 has NVidia's Optimus technology, so it should be OK if you're not
doing 3D stuff. That said, with an 1800p display, anything that touches the
GPU is going to peg it, and I have no doubt the machine will get quite hot
under these circumstances.

~~~
trimbo
Well, right now my 2010 MBP is driving my cinema display for just reading
email and stuff and is baking hot on the bottom. This is the trade-off with
this newer machine, I suspect. It packs a ton of power in a smaller space...
that just generates a lot of heat.

------
dirkdeman
Why for heaven's sake is the new macbook pro €2279 when it's only $2199 in the
US? It's a beautiful machine, and I'm used to some price differences between
the US and Europe (USD = EUR, right, Apple?) but this is outrageous! That's
almost 500 dolars more...

~~~
jonpacker
Presumably because the € price includes VAT (which is usually 20%+ in the EU),
and the US$ price does not. The real US price would vary by state, and they
usually don't show the amount of sales tax on the purchase price. This is a
tax thing, not an apple thing.

~~~
rorrr
$2,199 + 20% = $2,638.8 = 2,111€

Still doesn't explain a higher price.

------
GR8K
Belkin & Matrox are coming out with Thunderbolt docks:

Belkin <http://www.belkin.com/thunderbolt/>

Matrox <http://www.matrox.com/docking_station/en/ds1/>

------
xbryanx
Will you still be able to order a MacBook with the matte display? Or does the
retina display preclude this?

I hate the glossy screen and was happy to pay extra for matte on my current
MacBook.

~~~
dochtman
They're saying they did something to the glass to make it less reflective.

~~~
forgetcolor
that's kind of like saying i did something to my turds to make them less
smelly. may be true, but i still don't want to hang out with one.

------
ori_b
I really hope that other manufacturers try to copy this soon. I'd kill for a
thinkpad (or any other machine that runs Linux nicely, has three buttons and
an eraser-stick, and has decent battery life) with a retina display.

~~~
oblique63
Well, once scaled, the retina screen comes to be about the same resolution as
that of the W series Thinkpads (1080p), which is probably how you'd be using
it until apps start supporting the resolution bump natively anyway. I just
ordered a W530 with that display, 2.7ghz i7 quad core, and their most powerful
graphics card for under $1,900. It's not a 'Retina' macbook, but still seems
like a good deal to me.

------
hack_edu
Do any employees know whether or not the new MacBooks are available at retail
locations today?

edit: Apple Store Berkeley says no.

~~~
scorpion032
Surely available in the downtown SF Apple store.

Exhibit A: <http://instagr.am/p/LvfFx3CPKI/>

------
jaems33
The more annoying problem is the storage: the lowest end model only holds 256
GB with absolutely no option on checkout to upgrade. And because it's soldered
on, one can't simply install an upgrade themselves. So, in order for me to
just get double the amount, I have to spend a minimum $600 extra.

~~~
orangecat
Although with USB3, you can get external storage that's both cheap and fast.
Often not convenient for portable use, but great for a desktop replacement.

------
jacobr
I wonder what Ubuntu would look like on a retina display.

~~~
notatoad
Pretty tiny, I bet.

------
jakeonthemove
2880x1800 pixels on a 15.4 inch display? That's pretty impressive from a
technical stand point, but I can't see how it's going to be useful in real
life - I find 1680x1050 to be at the threshold of usability for me.

1600x900 is perfect on a 15.6, and 1920x1080 is the maximum I'd go for on a 17
inch display. Any higher and I'd just connect a bigger external display...

Can anyone give me an idea of what this resolution can actually be useful for?

~~~
stan_rogers
I'm still using a couple of _ancient_ 15.6" Windows laptops (the cool kids all
laugh at me) _because_ they have 1920x1080 and 1920x1200 displays -- and I'm
in my fifties, finding that my arms get shorter and shorter every year (that
is, creeping presbyopia -- combined with myopia -- means that I need different
glasses for _everything_ now). Apart from text-based activity (development and
such), I do a considerable amount of image manipulation using Photoshop and
plugins. Current-model affordable machines tend to have resolutions that are
far too small for my day-to-day use, making me choose between UI elements and
what I'm working on. 1600x900 is far too restrictive (and yes, I own a machine
with that resolution), and I'd really like the option of taking my work with
me without carting around a separate monitor (the reason I use laptops in the
first place).

~~~
ericabiz
The new ASUS Zenbook Prime runs 1920x1080 in 13":
[http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/asus_zenbook_prime_u...](http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/asus_zenbook_prime_ux31a.aspx)

I prefer Windows--I'm going to try this out vs. the new Macbook Pro, but I may
indeed pick up the ASUS.

------
stewbrew
When I got my Thinkpad W500 with a 1920x1280 display four years ago people
complained over the Internet about those tiny pixels you can hardly see. It
didn't have a funny name though and was just a display.

~~~
AncientPC
I have a Dell Inspiron 6000 from 2005. It has a WUXGA display (1920x1200) on a
15" screen.

Sadly, screen resolutions have been decreasing and moving towards 16:9 ratio.
It's nice to see Apple emphasize the screen again and push competition.

------
sciurus
I think the comparisons to the Macbook Air are misleading. At least for me,
the distinct appeal of the Macbook Air is that it's light; either 2.38 or 2.96
pounds. The new model Macbook Pro may be a great laptop in many ways, but at
4.46 pounds it's not light. I'm going to notice that in my messenger bag to a
much greater extent than I would an Air.

~~~
pivo
I'm kind of amazed that the pro is only that much heavier than the air. It
feels like it's like it's at least twice as heavy.

------
pbrumm
Hopefully the macbook pro with retina display supports 16gb of ram. Everything
else sounds amazing, but being limited to 8gb of ram for another few years is
going to hold me back.

~~~
grecy
The question right now is if the RAM is upgradable or soldered to the board a
la the Air...

~~~
neilc
Per [http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/11/apple-introduces-next-
ge...](http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/11/apple-introduces-next-generation-
macbook-pro-with-15-4-retina-display-starts-at-2199/) , "up to 16GB of MacBook
Air-like non-upgradable 1600MHz RAM."

------
mrbill
I have multiple machines. I'm a UNIX/Linux sysadmin "by trade" since 1995 and
use whatever machine / OS combination fits the task at hand best.

At work I have a Core2Duo Mac Mini that runs Windows 7 in a VM for my "work
stuff" on a second monitor. At home I have the current Core i5 Mac Mini for my
main system, with an AMD Bulldozer-based Windows box for games and things that
require Windows. Sure, I prefer *nix, but I'll admin and use whatever gets the
bills paid.

When it comes to laptops, I have a 2010 Macbook Air 11", a 2010 Macbook Pro
13", a Thinkpad T61 with Ubuntu, a Lenovo G470 with Win7, and a Thinkpad X120e
running Windows 7.

A couple of hours ago, I sold the MBAir and MBPro to friends and ordered the
new Core i5 11.6" Air with 128G SSD and 8G RAM. It's not often that I will buy
the "current" machine without waiting for a refurb to be available.

------
pimentel
No builtin ethernet? My router at home doesn't allow wireless access to the
admin.interface. I like my ethernet from time to time...

~~~
phamilton
They released a thunderbolt to ethernet adapter.

------
hesdeadjim
I'm at WWDC and after seeing one up close, it delivers on all the hyperbole
attached to the launch. It's a truly incredible piece of hardware and the
display is as game changing as the original iPhone retina screen was.

------
phaus
While the new laptops seem very nice, the Mac Pro is a blatant attempt to
insult the customer's intelligence. A video card from 2009, seriously? A quick
search of newegg.com revealed that this card is so old and obsolete that they
don't even sell it anymore. I understand that graphics cards aren't the most
important thing in the world to many of Apple's customers, but there is
absolutely no reason that they don't at least have a 6990 or even the new 7990
available as an option.

~~~
orangecat
Apple doesn't want normal customers to even consider the Mac Pro. It exists to
milk high-end pro users who are locked into Mac-based ecosystems, and possibly
to make the rest of the lineup look less expensive.

------
gareim
With a quad-core CPU and an NVidia 650M and that beast of a screen, will heat
be an issue? They've put a lot of powerful components in a relatively small
package.

------
goatslacker
Was anyone else expecting a Macbook Air 15" with Retina display?

~~~
its_so_on
by removing the hard-drive in lieu of flash and removing the media drive,
that's exactly what they've just given you, wouldn't you say? (but with real
graphics card so you can actually do something with that beautiful display
other than watch HD content stutter. and quad core i7.)

granted its not an air, but - are you _sure_ you want one?

~~~
justincormack
I imagine it needs the memory bandwidth of a real card with dedicated RAM to
even just composite windows fast, so the air is not an option. This has the
benefit of making a bigger difference between the two lines again too,
although the 13 inch looks a weak offering now.

~~~
its_so_on
but there is a "15 inch air" from samsung,
[http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/09/15-inch-samsung-
series-9-...](http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/09/15-inch-samsung-
series-9-review-2012/) , which is along the lines the parent must have been
thinking of.

I think the 15 inch macbook as just announced is a far better option, with a
single weak point (7 hrs) compared to an air-style form factor which would be
weaker at _everything_ \- except weight and slightly thinner form factor.

basically, if all someone wants to do is type on it and not have to think
about carrying it with them or not (e.g. a reporter for stories, student for
essays, CEO for emails), a 15 inch air was not announced today. for everyone
else, what was just announced is better than the 15 inch air.

~~~
goatslacker
Didn't know about the Samsung Series 9. Thanks for the tip!

~~~
its_so_on
for what it's worth, based on the review I just linked I would never touch it.
(key sentence: "The real problem, though, isn't that the keys aren't cushy
enough, but that they're _sticky_ , and sometimes fail to register key
presses. Ultimately, we still managed to type the brunt of this review on the
Series 9, albeit with copious taps to the Backspace key.") yeah, that's not a
laptop I'll be using.

------
ricardobeat
Prices here in Brazil were nudged up a little:

    
    
        Air 11": R$2699 -> R$3699 (1849 USD)
        MBP 13": R$3599 -> R$3999 (2000 USD)
        MBP Retina: R$9999 (4500 USD - WHAT??)
        MBP Retina maxed out: R$15973 (~8000 USD...)
    

The prices for the new retina MBPs are outrageous. Tax rate for imports is
60%, and IT companies are eligible for some tax exemptions/reductions, it
doesn't make any sense. For R$10k you can fly to the US and buy _two_ retina
MBPs. The first one would be exempt from taxes on return.

Apple prices went from ridiculous (buy a Mac or buy a car) 6 years ago to very
competitive, until this update - apparently the good days are over.

------
_stephan
Will you be able to configure different DPI settings per monitor on OSX, or
will there be some iOS-like implicit 2x scale on retina displays? Otherwise
this MacBook might be somewhat awkward to use with a non-"retina" external
monitor...

------
zokier
I was hoping 2560x1600 13" pro, preferably in a fullsized body (instead of
this Airy silliness). Instead just a overprized and oversized Air, and
lackluster minimal refresh to real Pros.

------
ditoa
Very nice. Every year I am getting more and more tempted to make the switch
from Windows to OS X. I like my iPhone but have always preferred Windows to OS
X however I am not very excited with the way Microsoft are taking things with
Windows 8.

Also I love the hardware and design. They only company who comes close to
Apple's design is Asus in my opinion and even then they are still not quite
there.

Does anyone know if the SSD is a standard SATA drive or a custom built in one
(i.e. not user upgradable)?

~~~
sandipc
custom. looks like the RAM is custom too, just like on the Air.

~~~
ditoa
That is what I suspected. It is a shame as I doubt the built in SSD has the
performance of the Intel SSDs :(

~~~
sandipc
Supposedly Apple is using "faster" flash memory now... we'll see soon when the
first reviews come out.

------
nextstep
I can't find any details regarding the existence of an optical drive on the
new MacBook Pro. Has it been removed? Also, does anyone know how MagSafe2
differs from MagSafe?

~~~
pkamb
Optical drive has gone the way of the floppy on the "next generation" MacBook
Pro. It's still there on the "old" MacBook Pros that just got a spec bump
today.

~~~
jemeshsu
Not so sure about the updated MacBook Pro as the spec sheet does not list a
optical drive. So it might also be gone.

~~~
pkamb
[http://images.apple.com/macbook-
pro/performance/13-and-15-in...](http://images.apple.com/macbook-
pro/performance/13-and-15-inch/images/processor.jpg)

------
slig
Finally they removed the DVD driver.

~~~
aes256
As someone who appreciated the DVD drive because it could be removed and the
space/connector used to install a second 2.5" hard drive, I see the removal of
the DVD drive altogether as a negative.

This combined with on-board RAM and on-board SSD storage... are any of the
components in these new retina display MacBook Pros replaceable?

------
sycren
I think even if you are not a fan of macs or even this laptop you should still
love it. Because of this new release we should expect to see releases from
every other competitor by the end of the year to match the same screen
resolution. Hopefully this will jumpstart the tv resolution from HD 1080 to
something bigger like 4k and once this happens the next gen game consoles will
surely follow on with greater amounts of details.

------
jiggy2011
So, what is the effective resolution of the MBP now?

~~~
wmf
1440x900, same as the old "low res" screen.

~~~
maximilian
I was going to say this, but I would say its _slightly_ better because the
"effective" pixels are sharper -- You could probably run a text editor with a
smaller font and still feel comfortable.

------
Keyframe
I made a big switch from Mac based video editing to PC centric one in December
last year. I'm kind of glad and sad there are no new Mac Pros. PCs took over
big time in our industry (now video, CG was never Macs domain anyhow). Still,
Macbook Air and Pros are best laptops there are, regardless of OS on it.

------
hanapbuhay
Any eligible* student planning on purchasing the retina MacBook Pro can get
the base model for $1999 USD (a $200 discount) plus a free $100 Apple gift
card.

Details here: <http://store.apple.com/us/browse/campaigns/back_to_school>

------
hrktb
And bye bye 17inch macbook pro.

I guess it wasn't selling as good as the 15inch, ans is obsoleted by the
retina one. But it's funny how there is so little mention of it, even if it
was the top of the line for so long, representing the "everything's on board"
mentality, just as the mac pro is.

------
pippy
I get little hints of Apple losing it's finesse. The plugs are on either side
of the new MacBooks, a detail that Apple previously didn't miss. And two
Thunderbolts? Does anyone here actually have a thunderbolt device?

~~~
nnethercote
My MacBook Pro from about 7 years ago has ports on both sides, and the optical
drive slot in the front. More recent ones have the ports on the left side and
the optical drive on the right. I think Apple just moves them around to match
the constraints presented by the components inside the machine.

Having a USB port on each side is nice, IMHO. For example, I have a pair of
external speakers where the right speaker connects to the USB port, which is a
bit awkward when you only have USB ports on the left side of the laptop.

------
SkyMarshal
No MBP 13" refresh, too bad, I was hoping for that. That size is just the
noteook sweet spot for me. More specifically, I'd love to the see the discrete
Nvidia 650M GPU in the 13", want to play with CUDA on it.

Back to waiting...

------
staunch
Holy crap 2880x1800. I've been buying 15" 1920x1200 laptops for last 10 years
because I love resolution, but this is just absurdly awesome.

I only use Linux, but if no one else competes with this LCD I'll buy a Macbook
Pro for sure.

~~~
alecbenzer
Can't you throw linux on a mbp?

~~~
staunch
Sure, just not a fan of the premium price. I'd be willing to pay it though for
that pixels-per-inch.

------
thom
Price-wise, the new retina MBPs seem to stack up pretty well with a ThinkPad
W-series, so I don't really see a price issue here. What are people comparing
against that they see the price as steep?

------
listic
Is anyone doing thorough reviews for Apple products? With technical details
such as component specs (CPU/SSD/display), real world battery life testing and
so on.

Did all Macbooks get Ivy Bridge update or not?

~~~
weiran
Anandtech is good if you want the nitty gritty detail.

------
nickpresta
Tech specs for new MPB:
[http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macboo...](http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro/select)

------
mgkimsal
Is the line in port gone? Having line in and headphones out has been great for
my use cases, and I was sad to see those go from the 13". Are they gone across
the board now?

~~~
shadesandcolour
The line in ports may have been combined with the headphone jack. I thought I
remembered reading about that somewhere.

~~~
mgkimsal
On 13" they were about 2 years ago. Still on 15" and 17" models, and from the
other response, it sounds like they still are there.

------
jaakl
In 2012 there is only one producer who is bold enough to come out with new
laptop model without touch-screen. And still it is leading edge.

------
creativityhurts
The new Macbook Pro landing page is out <http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/>

------
cburgas
Any information on when they update the iMac line? I really don't need a new
laptop but want to switch to MacOS :(

------
ajasmin
It takes a lot of 99¢ app sales to afford one of those new laptops. If you're
in the app selling business.

~~~
_frog
3,174 sales to be exact.

------
dasil003
I'm bummed no dual-drive configuration.

------
angerman
I want one of those new shiny MacBook Air Pros! :) Seriously Apple, why not
name them like that?

~~~
guywithabike
Because that's confusing as hell.

------
vinothgopi
Am I the only one who noticed that the lid does not have the shiny words
"Macbook Pro" anymore?

------
epynonymous
seems the ivy bridge is 20 degrees c hotter than the sandybridge chipset when
overclocked:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_Bridge_(microarchitecture)>

------
streeter
Does anyone know if the new MacBook Air can drive more than one external
display?

~~~
streeter
Got the official word from Apple: nope, only one external display.

------
darrenkopp
Looks like they dropped the 17" MBP and replaced it with the new 15" Retina
MBP.

------
pclark
all I want is 3g on laptops

~~~
dangrossman
What would be the point when there's not a single US cell network that offers
unlimited 3G data for computers? Or is there someone in California? There's
not here. Might as well just tether from your phone since you can only do it a
few times a month without hitting your data cap.

~~~
jarek
Who said anything about unlimited? 3 or 5 GBs of backup data for when you
can't find or can't be bothered to find an open wifi network could still be
quite nice. It won't replace your stream-HD-movies-all-day-wireless-N but it
doesn't have to.

------
munchor
I've never owned an Apple product before. I'll probably buy this thing, it's
amazing, but I won't use OS X, no, no :P

~~~
bluthru
OS X might be the only OS to take advantage of the pixel doubling for a while.

------
thelicx
Too expensive... really too much

------
bangbang
No Ethernet??

~~~
ceejayoz
Via a Thunderbolt dongle, apparently.

~~~
phn
The thing is, the ethernet port is too thick. At least on the air it would be
impossible, I think the same thing happens here.

------
drivebyacct2
The Macs are awesome and I can't wait to throw down and replace my MBP, but
I'm going to be nauseous from my iOS friends trying to rub iOS features in my
face. Congratulations, Android users had that for years, or even a year.

------
idleloops
Are these OLED displays - is this a first for a laptop? I'm interested in any
technology that makes it more comfortable to use the machine. Currently I read
most web pages on my Kindle out of desperation.

~~~
jonah
They're LED backlit IPS panels.

~~~
idleloops
Oh shucks! Nice then, but could be nicer.

~~~
danbee
LCD has much better colour accuracy right now, probably because it's a much
more mature technology.

------
soc88
I guess the “Retina Display” is the admission that they never figured out how
to do decent font rendering?

~~~
ceejayoz
You really think "fonts look better" is the main selling point for the Retina
displays?

~~~
scott_s
Well, it was for me. I held off on the iPad until an iPad 3. After using an
iPhone 4, when I picked up an iPad 1 or 2, I saw pixels everywhere. The main
thing I use my iPad for is reading. I guessed that would be the case, so I
held off on getting one until it had a high-resolution display that could
display text without visible pixels.

------
SeoxyS
Looks like I'll have to be heading to the Apple store after the keynote is
over...

Edit: I'm curious, why the downvotes?

~~~
marknutter
Probably because it didn't add much to the discussion, which is actually what
down-voting is technically supposed to be used for. Makes sense, I wouldn't
want this comment to be up towards the top - it's just you saying you want to
buy a MBP.

