
Stop the inner struggle over whether your thoughts and feelings are “right” - jrs235
http://www.businessinsider.com/harvard-psychologist-key-to-being-happier-2016-8
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kunle_e
This reminds me of how forgetful we are as a species. The stuff in this
article was figured out thousands of years ago and now is being presented
almost as if it's something new. It also reminds me that for all of our
technological prowess, we still haven't mastered the no-tech fundamentals of
dealing with life as human beings.

~~~
yourapostasy
Maybe someday our ML will be good enough (and alas, it is not currently) that
a "fuzzy trope search engine" could be built. Enter a description of a
situation, set of relationships, or condition, and up pops references to
historical tropes that match and are related. Then I can short-circuit old
ideas being pitched to me repackaged in new clothing passing off as genuinely
new ideas, and send the pitcher the link.

The title of this post would perhaps pull up "Thoughtcrime" and other related
tropes (religious heresy among them probably, wonder how far back this
particular trope goes in recorded human history).

~~~
nefitty
That would be an amazing service. You could even provide short advising
narratives, similar situations from novels, films, etc. and their conclusions
to help guide the user to act appropriately according to their goal. It would
be like a friend relating a, "Yeah, that happened to me once, this is what I
did," kind of story except the stories would be pulled from hundreds of
sources.

~~~
tripzilch
This is actually very similar to what an I-Ching reading does :) Except of
course, the ML part is replaced by a random number generator (coins or
sticks).

Fortunately we have an _extremely_ powerful fuzzy narrative pattern matcher in
our heads and with a bit of effort and interpretation people would still get
useful advice from the method.

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imgabe
Great, now when I question whether one of my thoughts or feelings is "right" I
have to also question whether _that_ thought is "right".

~~~
ralphc
It's self doubt all the way down.

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jrs235
I think this goes along with the submission the other day about mediocrity:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12335367](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12335367)

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astazangasta
This title is exactly wrong, or at least misleading, according to CBT. The
whole process of examining your feelings is to determine whether they have a
sound basis. The basic loop is: identify feeling, then assumptions that led to
that feeling, then try and replace those assumptions with better, more
accurate ones. E.g. "I am sad." -> "everyone hates me" can be modified by
realizing, no, my cat doesn't hate me, nor does my best friend Jen. Since I
now know "everyone hates me" is not correct, the feelings that result from
this thought can dissipate.

I.e., examine your feelings deeply and understand whether the thoughts behind
them are right.

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narrator
I think the problem is that sometimes emotions can have nothing to do with
reality. It's just a brain chemistry problem and only fixing the brain
chemistry aspect will help. That can be done through exercise, meditation,
supplements or drugs. In certain instances there's even a correctable problem,
such as low grade heavy metal poisoning, that can be permanently fixed. When
people beat themselves up over brain chemistry problems, it just makes it
worse. It's like mentally beating yourself over not being able to walk with a
broken leg.

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sakopov
"Instead, the paradoxical key to true happiness seems to be accepting
unhappiness - not forcing yourself to feel how you don't."

I don't know about that. The key to true happiness is accepting that happiness
is the path not the destination. When you realize that life becomes a heck of
a lot easier to live.

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unabst
> pay close attention to those negative emotions, because they're usually
> trying to tell you something

No. They're _always_ trying to tell you something. That's all emotions are.
And they've already spoken, so arguing with them is futile. They're telling
your brain how you feel so you can act intelligently on them, not so you can
turn around and argue with yourself in the mirror.

There are no negative emotions. They're dumb and honest. There is no "how you
should feel". Your brain is the only organ smart enough to pretend. You feel a
certain way because that's the way it is. We should always start there.

~~~
avindroth
Our emotions don't tell us shit. They are straight-up wrong, half the time.

Our biological OS is not constructed for the current world. That is why, even
when everything is going right, we have intermittent moments of anxiety and
depression.

This is chronic. The moment you ignore our biases, you fall into some deep
shit.

And you can never get out; you can't see your own biases.

~~~
plurinshael
No. The projection of an emotional object onto a logical construction has the
capacity for being "wrong" or "right". Emotions are a different, more
distributed form of logic and one should not construe homomorphisms across the
two.

~~~
avindroth
There are too many inference distances for me to explain in a comment (and
frankly lazy).

Read the sequences on LessWrong! You might glean a thing or two.

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emblem21
Emotions exist for a reason. Deny them at your own peril.

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greendestiny_re
Mathematically speaking, happiness is equal to reality expresssed as a number
divided by expectations:

H = R/E

The higher the expectations, the lower the happiness. This also means that:

lim(E->inf) = inf

The conclusion is inescapable yet profound - expect nothing and you'll be
blissfully happy.

~~~
rquantz
Oh you read that article too? There are ways of thinking about happiness that
still allow for striving. Also, unhappiness is not only caused by entitlement.

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swatkat
This is exactly what Jiddu Krishnamurti has said. If you "fight" the thoughts,
it'll just create conflicts that results in anxiety.

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ca98am79
This is the first principle of consciousness.io, a new religion I made - no
judgement

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sebringj
Completely removing religion and pc correctness and cultural obligations from
my life fairly early on resulted in a very light weight approach to life and
the removal of inner chatter bullshit. Do what makes sense to you to get the
best result in the purpose of life you have chosen. Basic morality has already
been ingrained in us through evolution and is quite adequate by itself. Why we
then we must slap words on it to allow it to be spread through the
consciousness of people like a bad virus is beyond me. It just causes
cognitive dissonance as everyone is not the same in their pursuit of
happiness.

~~~
debaserab2
> Basic morality has already been ingrained in us through evolution and is
> quite adequate by itself.

How exactly did you arrive at that conclusion?

~~~
sebringj
@bholzer put it nicely. Google "chimps and bonobos demonstrate morality".
Cooperation increased survivability and that generally has affected our
acceptance of what is intrinsic to what feels right. Later religion slapped on
meaning to it via super natural explanation which was the best bullshit they
could come up with at the time. I get up voted on PC answers by the way but I
should have cited some examples.

~~~
debaserab2
Seeing a chimp and bonobo demonstrate morality doesn't exactly assure me that
a born sense of morality is "adequate enough by itself".

Pretty sure there is a zoo in Cincinnati that agrees with me on that one.

~~~
sebringj
Prison isn't known for bringing out the best in humans either.

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seibelj
I have met people who not only police everyone's behavior and speech for minor
deviations from political correctness, but are constantly worried about how
their thoughts are not meeting their own high standards. There is a difference
between saying things in a public forum and thinking them when you see
something crazy on the street. I just think living that way would be totally
exhausting and remove a lot of fun from life. This is another reason why
activists decry "old boys' clubs" or cliques that form at school and work.
Some people just want to hang out with people where saying an off color joke
doesn't ruin your fucking life.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Biases, prejudices and so on are subtle and take a while to unlearn. If you
want to get rid of them, you essentially have to interrogate your own
thoughts, for better or worse. If you're not conscious of a bias, you can't
get rid of it.

It doesn't suck the fun out of life.

~~~
justinlardinois
I'm not sure how your parent even jumped to talking about "political
correctness" in the first place, since that's not at all what the article
meant by "right" thoughts and feelings.

But you're spot on. It's difficult to unlearn something that you never knew
you were learning in the first place, because you just take it as fact or how
the world is.

Confronting your own biases is uncomfortable, but it's well worth it, for it
makes you a better person and helps you interact with the world in a more
positive way. Besides, having your worldview shaken up and challenged is good
for you; that's the best way to learn.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
> I'm not sure how your parent even jumped to talking about "political
> correctness" in the first place, since that's not at all what the article
> meant by "right" thoughts and feelings.

It's funny to me, since I do, to some extent, try to recognise my prejudices
in my thoughts, but it's not been a problem for me. Whereas I actually _have_
had problems with worrying about whether my thoughts and feelings are “right”
in the sense that the OP is talking about.

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dang
We replaced the title with a photo caption from the article that appears to
summarize what the researcher means by "showing up". If anyone suggests a
better (more accurate and neutral) title, we can change it again.

~~~
vinceguidry
How about "Trying to replace other emotions with happiness often winds up
decreasing it"?

~~~
dang
That's good, but we prefer to use language from the article itself when
possible.

~~~
dsp1234
"the paradoxical key to true happiness seems to be accepting unhappiness"

