
What’s the waiter doing with the computer screen? (2012) - cbhl
https://javlaskitsystem.se/2012/02/whats-the-waiter-doing-with-the-computer-screen/
======
toomanybeersies
I used to work for a company that made a POS system for hospitality.

It was incredibly hard to make everybody happy. Every restaurant and bar and
cafe had their own way of doing things, and wanted our system to do it that
way.

We did have a few "rules" that helped make the system easier to use and to
avoid stories like this.

We tried to ensure that nothing that was used more than a couple of times a
day was more than 3 taps away from the main screen.

We also did a lot of visits to our customers. If there were sticky notes
around the POS terminal, that was always a red flag that our system wasn't
doing something the right way.

One important take away from my time at the company, where we worked fairly
closely with our customers, is that people love sticking to the old way of
doing things, even if there's an easier, new way to do it. If you changed this
system to only require one click to change bookings, they'd probably still use
a whiteboard marker on the screen, because that's the way they've always done
it. Cargo culting is incredibly common for non-technical people using
technology, and even fairly common for technical people.

~~~
scrooched_moose
The flip side is techies often assume that because something is newer, more
complicated, and more "high-tech" it's automatically better. In reality they
often introduce dozens of new failure modes (what's the worst that can happen
with a whiteboard, out of ink?) for a 10% productivity gain on the rare
occasions it works as intended.

I've sat through dozens of sales pitches for (shiny new product that will
replace your old piece of junk). When pressed on why it's better, the answer
is basically "Technology!"

~~~
acomjean
I was at a meeting years ago (IBM..they did have a lot of meetings). This was
about making a complex online tool for facilities engineering.

After some discussion, the boss determined "This is solution in search of a
problem" (it really was), so the project wasn't started.

This answer stuck with me. The tech was interesting but looking the bigger
picture it didn't help the business. It was the do nothing alternative that
made the most sense

~~~
mvc
> (IBM..they did have a lot of meetings)

Seems like this might have been one of the more productive ones.

------
Yhippa
Even today for semi- or non-routine tasks I'll do weird stuff like copy text
to Notepad to remove formatting then past it back into the same app/web page
to enter information. I'll also do some weird things like instead of using an
entire screen to read text on a long web page article I'll just keep my eyes
near the top of the screen and scroll so my eyes don't have to move. Not sure
what I'm trying to say but maybe there are entirely new ways of building
existing app types out there that have an audience out there.

I wish we spent as much time on HCI in our field. I get a lot more value out
of seeing how people I develop software for do their tasks and then thinking
about how that could be improved. An implication of that is that I'm not
building a fancy UI for my resume's sake; that I'm actually improving their
day-to-day workflows. That takes some cost and time but in my projects nobody
wants to pay for that.

~~~
TeMPOraL
> _I 'll do weird stuff like copy text to Notepad to remove formatting then
> past it back into the same app/web page to enter information._

I do that too! In fact, I do that so often that on Windows, I have the
following workflow in my muscle memory:

    
    
      CTRL+C ;; copy
      Win+R  ;; open "Run"
      CTRL+V ;; paste
      CTRL+A ;; select what I just pasted
      CTRL+X ;; cut it out (disappearing text serves
             ;; as a visual proof of operation completion)
      ESC    ;; close the "Run" box, restoring focus
             ;; to original application
      CTRL+V ;; paste cleaned-up text
    

I do that without thinking in under 2 seconds.

On Linux, I usually abuse the address bar of the browser.

~~~
grahamburger
Wow sounds like a nightmare! Although I certainly have many muscle-memory-
scripted tasks that I run like that :) On OSX command-shift-v is paste-
without-formatting and seems to be fairly universal - I guess there's not a
Windows equivalent? I thought that I recalled ctrl-shift-v working in most
contexts on Linux to remove formatting as well but I've been using OSX for too
long now and don't remember.

~~~
detaro
Same shortcut is convention in Windows, but it takes only one program you use
regularly to not respect that to make you learn an alternative workflow, and
then stick to it everywhere.

------
_bxg1
I think one key takeaway which isn't directly mentioned in the article is that
UX designers, _especially_ on custom-built business solutions like this one,
tend to have a pretty rigid concept of the user flow. But the most useful and
time-tested pieces of software tend to be the most flexible; the ones that
empower users to do what they want, when they want, on-the-fly. That's what's
so powerful about a whiteboard; not the fact that it isn't software. They're
infinitely flexible and easy to manipulate.

Excel is an (eghem) excellent example of this concept in software, as pointed
out by another commenter here. It doesn't presume a particular flow or even a
particular set of user stories. It gives you the tools to record and
manipulate large amounts of data, no matter what it is or what shape it's in,
without writing code. That's a powerful concept and one that more designers
should keep in mind.

~~~
golergka
Another beautiful example is Trello. I've used several task trackers for
software projects, Jira and Mantis several times, and my experience with
Trello beats everything else.

Turns out, you don't really need complicated automated processes and different
views for the same data (as abstractions lover in me was absolutely sure of).
Doing task management manually and easily changing workflows on the fly is
much more useful.

~~~
madeofpalk
No, it turns out _you_ didn’t need anything more complicated. Others do (or
like it)

------
throwaway2016a
Reminds me of when I used to draw on CRT monitors because it was quicker to
illustrate UX changes than to use the mouse / change code.

I know a lot of restaurants around here that use a sheet of glass placed over
a printout of the seating chart to record reservations and which tables are
clear / ready to be seated at.

This article buries the lead, the most important takeaway is at the end of the
list at #6:

> to really find out what’s important to the users, and how a system is
> actually used, you need to observe real users, in the field.

~~~
Y_Y
Some people like to bury the "lede" nowadays, presumably because buried lead
can be harmful to wildlife and water supplies.

(see also: [https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/bury-the-
lede-...](https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/bury-the-lede-versus-
lead) )

------
otakucode
What it tells me is that preventing the developers from talking directly with
the users, a practice which is mind-bogglingly common (bordering on
universal), is a hurdle which companies are incapable of overcoming. There
really is no replacement for a developer who can become embedded in the
organization which is going to be using the software, watching or performing
the job themselves for any position which is going to be enhanced by using the
system being built, etc. I have always wanted to do exactly this as a
developer, and the closest I have been able to get was on a couple freelance
solo projects. As far as I know there's not even really a name for a person
that functions this way. The closest I've seen is "Business Analyst", but if
you just look for positions with that name you find nothing even remotely
close to actually doing that sort of thing.

As a developer, it is normal to look at a system and extract the generalities
and patterns and systematize them. Then the users start using the system. And
they always ask for the same things. Exceptions. The ability to cheat the
rules they swore were "always" the case.

If they've got someone on the staff who knows just enough to be dangerous,
their system will grow by bits and pieces organically, eventually resulting in
a real nightmarish mess. For years I have wanted to try to design a system
which actually has this in mind as a primary use case. Something which can be
bit-by-bit 'expanded' over time with the special cases, exceptions, etc but
which can remain sensible, maintainable, and tractable. It's possible that
such a system cannot be made both as flexible as necessary and still usable by
the average person, but I think it might be. Anything which accomplished the
goal even partially would be pretty successful I imagine.

~~~
sopooneo
One problem with putting developers in direct contact with customers is that
we developers tend to be more terse, more concrete, more exact, than the
average Joe(lla). And that leads us to occasionally use the word "no". And
that word infuriates and terrifies average Joe(lla)'s bosses.

I completely agree that good software requires this direct contact, but you
have to find the right people.

------
ghayes
For what it's worth, the author of the article misses one crucial aspect of
the system: it allows customers to reserve online and via third-party
applications. Checking in users (clearly) had a bad experience, but the fact
that all upcoming reservations were made and listed is still important (and
seemed to function quite well).

------
sidedishes
I think Norman's The Design of Everyday Things rings incredibly true to this
story and its lessons.

There are so many examples in that book where users, frustrated or
inconvenienced by the (high-tech) complexity of their tools, devise their own
(low-tech) way to use a tiny subset of the features that just barely gets the
job done for them--though perhaps not as creatively as writing on the screen
here. One is the emergence of scrappy post-it-note instruction guides for
basic tasks people would tape next to overengineered phone systems in the 90s.
He also presents the concept of a 'gulf of evaluation' that makes
contextualizes the difference between designer expectations and actual use (or
the difficulty of getting feedback that would bridge this gulf).

The book---in its latest version, intentionally---omits discussions about
modern software, but it does more than enough to prove its point with simple
everyday examples. I'd highly recommend giving it a read to anyone!

~~~
digi_owl
I seem to recall reading about something similar regarding field testing of
new gear for soldiers.

The generals and sales goons would come up with all kinds of "would it not be
useful if they had XYZ on their helmet". but once given field trials the
feedback was that while it was nice to have, it made said helmets heavy,
leading to neck strain and problems with simply looking around.

------
kazinator
If the position of objects in the UI is immutable, you can use the glass as
part of the state.

This overlay over the screen reminds me of some video games systems that used
transparencies for part of the scene, or at least a measure of color. Vectrex
was like this: vector graphics, augmented with a game-specific acetate overlay
that you'd put on the screen for that game.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vectrex](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vectrex)

Vectrex is fantastic; if you find a working one in some garage sale, with game
cartridges, snap it the hell up, and post about it here. :)

~~~
kazinator
Speaking of holding state in the display itself.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storage_tube](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storage_tube)

What the waiter is doing is kind of like a storage tube driven by markers.

------
dghughes
At my old job the food and beverage department used IBM POS. I'm pretty sure
it was touch screen but seemed to also have some extra detection from the
screen edges.

One day a fly landed on the screen and managed to enter an order for a
sandwich and two bottles of pop.

Talk about a bug!

------
21
The equivalent in finance is when they convert the Excel sheet into a "proper"
app, only for the users to go back to Excel after a while.

~~~
ccozan
I don't know if there is a name for this law, but is true: every business app
will get an 'export to excel' functionality. No matter how well is modeled or
close to the user flow, the users will want to export the data in an excel -
where they can be creative!

------
uxamanda
I have been telling this story to UX designers since I first read it. Fun to
see it pop up again, it's one of my favorites.

My favorite part of UX is getting to go on site to see people's workflows in
action. An example that comes to mind was working on an early iPad app for EMS
/ first responders. They already had toughbook-style computers in the
ambulances, but had lots of complaints. One thing we noticed immediately was
that they couldn't use the computers when they were wearing latex gloves. They
actually tracked vital signs by writing them on the gloves themselves and
attempting to transcribe them when they got back to the computer.

~~~
jimmyswimmy
Just did exactly this an hour ago. Much easier than trying to type in those
little boxes. I can put any value I want on my glove in any format or order.
The computer on the other hand will barf if I try to put 120/80 in the pulse
field, or anywhere, because systolic and diastolic pressure are two different
fields. Seems like a great application for relatively straightforward pattern
recognition, an empty text box and a heuristic that guesses what I mean and
asks for approval.

------
toss1
Great story, and he's absolutely right about having the developers talk
directly to the end users.

The systems built with customers where we talked to the end users both worked
well and were well-accepted.

Other systems, where the managers insisted that we talk to a specified manager
who would 'gather and transmit' the end-user requirements typically ended up
being the endless projects that never quite worked. Yes, sort of endless
billables too, but much less satisfying to both build and use.

If I were still developing software, I'd be at the point of insisting on
direct end-user participation as a condition of doing the work, and primarily
for the customer's sake.

~~~
Kluny
As a developer, I always _try_ to talk to the end users. Sadly I find that
managers prevent me from doing so more often than not.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Yup, I hate when managers do that. Where I can, I always push for direct
developer-customer interaction, because it turns out that developers can
communicate with customers just fine, and adding an additional indirection
layer only loses lots of intangible or non-obvious information about the
problem domain in the process.

------
lb1lf
The book referred to at the end of the blog entry is brilliant; reading case
study upon case study on how projects derailed (if they were ever on track in
the first place...) is a humbling experience for anyone who has ever found
himself in the position of trying to figure out what a customer wants (often
not what he says he wants, sigh).

The domain it is hosted on, by the way, translates roughly to
bloodyshitesystem.se :)

~~~
txru
For those looking, the book seems to be in progress being translated to
English, but doesn't seem to be done yet.

[http://javlaskitsystem.se/english/](http://javlaskitsystem.se/english/)

------
klausjensen
I recently had a chance to visit a company in Glasgow, Scotland, that develops
and sells a restaurant management system.

The owner told me something, that stuck with me.

They only hire people who have worked in the hospitality industry before. They
wanted people to know the domain extensively, so they were more likely to
understand what their customers were facing in their workday.

During my talks with various roles in the company, formal and informal, almost
all of them would refer back to a real-life situation, where they would face a
problem - and how they tackle that in their software.

I think that was a pretty interesting approach.

------
jancsika
Long story short, the UI devs aren't dogfooding their product, right?

I mean if the company just went out for beers one night and had one person try
to use the software to "seat" each employee, they'd figure out pretty quickly
that there are too many clicks. Especially if the rule is to take a drink for
each employee seated. :)

~~~
askvictor
I think that's a bit dangerous as developers often think differently to non-
developers; also they already know how to use their product since they wrote
it. Needs to be tested with actual end-users.

~~~
davegauer
You are absolutely right about the danger of knowing your own product too
well. On the other hand, a developer is often in a much better position to
know how to "make the computer do the work" than the end-user.

Ideally, you'd test with both...several times. It would be wonderful if
clients were willing to _pay_ for this level of software perfection!

------
dqv
So you know that law? Conway's law?

There is a kind of inverse in certain niche industries where the communication
structure of the organizations is a result of the _software_. Like the people
are as rigid/dysfunctional as the software. Sometimes there aren't nice
solutions like dry erase marker on screen.

If you work in one of these, it's the most uncomfortable feeling. One benefit
is that it can be motivating to create alternative software to claw your way
out.

Unless the software mirrors the dysfunctional organization...

------
sebringj
If you are carpenter holding a hammer you see nails. We are programmers so we
see user flows. Put the hammer down, clear your mind. Look at what the
u̶s̶e̶r̶ person is doing.

~~~
digi_owl
And i have seen programmers that when they do so, declare users to be drooling
idiots best confined to a padded cell...

------
spectaclepiece
Another gem from this blog: [http://javlaskitsystem.se/2012/09/the-doctor-
that-rocks-the-...](http://javlaskitsystem.se/2012/09/the-doctor-that-rocks-
the-mouse/)

~~~
digi_owl
Reminds me that some time back HN linked an article showing that floppies (the
3.5" type, not the 5.25" kind) were still used in Norway to distribute data to
doctors.

Thing that came up in the comments were that said doctors were holding on to
and older, DOS based, patient record system, because it was all keyboard
operated. This in turn allowed a seasoned doctor to work the UI while
maintaining a dialog with the patient.

------
barbs
The post linked at the end is also interesting:
[http://javlaskitsystem.se/2012/09/the-doctor-that-rocks-
the-...](http://javlaskitsystem.se/2012/09/the-doctor-that-rocks-the-mouse/)

Although I can't help but note the irony of an ugly non-responsive webpage! At
least on Firefox Android...

~~~
newsbinator
> [...] Henrik noted that a post-it note covered the upper right corner of the
> screen. Why?

> Well, when patients are ready, they’re supposed to press a ”Save” button on
> the screen.

> But a lot of them instead press the Windows’ ”Close” icon in the upper right
> corner (perhaps they were determined not to let the next person see their
> entries).

> But this also shut down the machine, and the data they had entered were
> lost!

> Solution: cover the icon with a piece of paper or tape!

------
cnees
“That’s the best use of a computer I’ve ever seen,” my CS prof told me as I
wrote pseudocode on my MacBook with a pencil.

~~~
aetherspawn
.. does that come off?

~~~
rangibaby
I wouldn't be worried if it is a grease pencil

~~~
zafiro17
I once worked in an architecture/engineering firm with an old school architect
who worked wonders with pencils and inks. He had a cartoon over his desk:
"Computer aided drafting." Showed a crusty, bearded architect sitting on top
of his computer as though it were a chair, while drawing with pencils as
usual.

Back on topic, the solution as I see it is a data store, and different
interfaces customized for each employee. Expensive, but the bartender and the
hostess don't need the same information.

------
PuffinBlue
I love this story and I truly hope some of those that build things for other
people to use take onboard its point.

You really can make something beautiful and elegant and yet totally unusable
for the people actually using the interface.

------
jschwartzi
I used to do this exact thing with a Vis-a-Vis marker on one of those Apple
monitors. They had a nice glass front that made this kind of thing easy.

------
peter303
I was at one of the McDonalds last week with one of their updated computer
ording kiosks. They place about 15 feet from the cash register. So if they is
a line of 4 people or more, these kiosks are right in you face and tempt you
to use them rather wait in line. So with four people ahead of me I started
using the kiosk. But the computer menus for both items I wanted to order where
three levels deep. The line moved faster than my use of the kiosk. So I
abondoned it a returned to the line.

Having been spoiled by voice assistants, I'd like one I could bark my order to
and have it done.

------
tomelders
Too many applications are really just crappy database UIs.

Software is meant to do things for you, but so many software developers think
software is there to stop users messing up their database.

~~~
amelius
Someone should write a program that builds a UI for arbitrary database
schemas; and allow the user to extend the schema using the UI.

~~~
madeofpalk
Is this sarcasm?

New programs like this tend to crop up every few years - MS Access, FileMaker,
and most recently, Airtable.

------
quark33
They central probelm here there is no way to satisfy everyone's needs in the
POS terminal. The bartender will have differnet needs than the hostess,
waiter, manager, or kitchen staff. It would be nearly impossible for everyone
to agree.

Simplicity is the key and I found this restaurants solution to be extremely
intuitive. More steps to sit a table simply because the technology is there to
acquire more data points, is not always the correct solution.

~~~
scarface74
It’s a monitor - they could have different views of the same data for
different users.

------
combatentropy
iPad vs. Paper,
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR4mlLiyjYo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR4mlLiyjYo)

------
havkom
What is important is the business objectives. It does not matter if a
whiteboard marker is used or a mouse is used that sends signals to an elegant
micro-service architecture.

The customer is always right, and in this case the restaurant is the customer.

This is a great example of that principle and in the end the customer was
happy and used a, for their business need, a good system.

~~~
havkom
Another upshot is that this system with a whiteboard marker is avoiding
personal data processing that is not needed (the GDPR data minimization and
storage limitation principles).

Privacy by design :-)

------
josefresco
I hope no one is depending on the reporting from that software to make any
sort of decisions (What do you mean no one showed up for their reservation
this past month?!?).

Or maybe at the end of their shift, they go in an "clear" the reservations who
showed?

My guess is there's no reporting / data analysis on the back end.

~~~
IncRnd
At a successful restaurant, they don't care about reporting, data analysis, or
who sat in what seat, just that all seats were occupied. That is already
accounted for by looking around the rounm and by the numbers at the end of the
night. The reservations are for the seating not the take.

If there is any data analysis it has to do with where the next restaurant can
be built.

~~~
Mikeb85
Not true at all. Restaurants definitely care about things like total covers,
check average, profit per seat, turnaround time, etc... There's massive profit
different between say, 1 turn and 2.5 turns. Simply filling every seat once
per night isn't good enough for a lot of restaurants.

~~~
IncRnd
> _Simply filling every seat once per night isn 't good enough for a lot of
> restaurants._

Great, except that isn't what I wrote.

------
alkonaut
It’s a combination of they bought the wrong system and the designers didn’t
listen. If the product is used successfully in thousands of restaurants
without the pen hack then it’s more of the former. If this is one of 25
customers using this system then it’s more of the latter.

------
antoineMoPa
There is no software like no software.

------
greymeister
It's like SAP. They deliver tools that adapt to your business model, as long
as you adapt your business model to do everything the way it works in SAP.

------
hermannj314
And some of us were using light pen systems in the 80s and 90s. I guess it all
goes full circle.

------
paddyredbeard
I love this!

