
How north ended up on top of the map - zvanness
http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/2/maps-cartographycolonialismnortheurocentricglobe.html
======
jasallen
The article does get to my base assumptions, but it takes awhile. (1) North
Star was what people navigated by first, so would orient maps to that
regardless of which way the words were written -- so people started writing
the words to fit. (2) Compasses, pick north or south for same reason. North
was picked because we were already using the North Star.

It all just makes so much better intuitive sense than a "Conspiracy of
Northern European Hegemony"

~~~
einhverfr
I don't think it is just that. If you haven't read Ptolomy (and in particular
all of Tetrabiblos, the Almagest, and his Geographia), you really should.
Ptolomy was quite an incredibly observant individual and he worked through
things with an attention to detail that is quite impressive.

He clearly understood he was in the Northern Hemisphere, but he placed
Alexandria not in the southernmost part of the known world as the article
suggests but in the center. A lot of this was pride and the sense that the
center had everything good from the edges (see Tetrabiblos), but to some
extent everywhere is the center, right?

He painstakingly discusses the proof that the earth is a sphere in Almagest.
His geographia is worth reading and directly relevant to this.

I suspect that Ptolomy put the north at the top simply because he was in the
Northern Hemisphere and knew it. He displays no great knowledge of navigation,
though he does explain how the stars shift as you move north and south (again
see Tetrabiblos and Almagest), and he even seemed to be aware that Mercury and
Venus revolved around the sun (or so he seemed to say in Tetrabiblos).

All in all he's one of those authors one really has to read if one is
interested in history, even the seemingly weird works he wrote (Tetrabiblos is
an astrology manual but includes a lot of information about Ptolomy's
understanding of geography not found in Geographia, and astronomy not found in
Almagest).

~~~
igravious
Top marks for Ptolemy (I think that's the more usual spelling in English?)
citations. But I think the point is that the Northeren Hemisphere gets its
northern-ness from magnetic north or the pole star, correct? But what makes
north be up/top and south be down/under? Vile European hegemony I tells ya. I
jest. But do I? Also, obligatory Gall-Peter's Projection reference for maximum
egalitarian cred:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gall%E2%80%93Peters_projection](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gall%E2%80%93Peters_projection)
. Choice quote for cartography newbs: "The Mercator projection increasingly
inflates the sizes of regions according to their distance from the equator.
This inflation results, for example, in a representation of Greenland that is
larger than Africa, whereas in reality Africa is 14 times as large. Since much
of the technologically underdeveloped world lies near the equator, these
countries appear smaller on a Mercator and therefore, according to Peters,
seem less significant. On Peters's projection, by contrast, areas of equal
size on the globe are also equally sized on the map."

~~~
einhverfr
BTW, one interesting read regarding medieval maps and knowledge of geography
is "Heaven and Earth in the Middle Ages: The Physical World before Colombus"
by Rudolf Simek. It's expensive, so you may want to check libraries. However
it is quite an impressive work, quite accessible, and deeply interesting.

One of the more interesting points is that while Europeans were generally
aware that the world was round since at least the 13th century (and monks from
at least the 8th century) they thought it was impossible to sale across the
equator until remarkably late. And the really revolutionary part of Columbus's
voyages was that it destroyed the Augustinian view of people, since the
Augustinian view was that if there were other continents, they must not be
inhabited (because of only three sons of Noah meant only three inhabited
continents).

~~~
igravious
Thank you, I'll check that Simek tome out.

Think I mentioned this here before but never mind. Another great book about
the whole round/flat debate (and much much more) is Arthur Koestler's The
Sleepwalkers: A History of Man's Changing Vision of the Universe. Basically
the ancient Greeks had this one all figured out - Aristarchus[1] "who
presented the first known model that placed the Sun at the center of the known
universe with the Earth revolving around it" I didn't know about the crossing
the equator thing, nor did I know about the Augustinian view but it doesn't
surprise me :)

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristarchus_of_Samos](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristarchus_of_Samos)

------
tokenadult
It's an interesting article. I looked for references to Chinese practice. In
Chinese, a (magnetic) compass is referred to as a "指南针," literally "south-
indicating needle," so it does appear that south was the most important
cardinal direction for the Chinese-speaking people who first used compasses.
The article notes that old Arab maps showed south on the top, and attributed
this to Chinese practice in map-making (which, if I remember correctly without
sources at hand, was not fully uniform in this regard).

Overall, the article offers an interesting discussion of trade-offs in map-
making, including the trade-off of what country to put in the middle of a flat
wall map that shows the whole world. I have become quite used to Chinese wall
maps of the world in Mercator or equal-area projections that display China in
the middle (left-to-right) and consequently split North America along both
sides of the map.

~~~
asolove
The Chinese name has a good deal to do with cultural tradition. In traditional
Chinese practice, north is the direction of evil. Cities were planned with
gates at the south and rulers sat facing south. Magnets were actually first
used as tools in geomancy rather than navigation. [1] This is why you would
not call a magnet a points-north-needle.

Of course, the association of North with evil is itself probably because of
the Northern hemisphere seasons. North, cold, winter and evil and all grouped
together in opposition to South, warm, summer, and good.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compass#Geomancy_and_feng_shui](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compass#Geomancy_and_feng_shui)

~~~
sardonicbryan
Not to mention the Mongols and Manchurians who were always trying to invade,
as opposed to the tribute-paying Southern kingdoms. There's a reason they
built the Great Wall to the north and not the south.

Weather also does play a role, as the south was able to generate three
harvests a year vs. two in the north. Historically, the capital of China has
been in the south, only being moved north during the Ming (aka second to last)
Dynasty.

Not sure how much any of that has to do with compass points, but did want to
elaborate a little on the cultural/historical context of north vs. south in
China.

------
est
The Chinese make south top because the emperor must facing south to rule.
南面称尊, 面南背北, 坐北朝南. So if they look at maps they sure must look at south.

------
Claudus
A pointed needle can be magnetized to point either North or South. But you
definitely want some way of distinguishing between the two ends, and making
one end pointed seems like the easiest way to do so. Maybe the magnetization
just happened to result in the needle pointing North the first time and that
set the standard.

Really interesting article on making a compass.
[http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/navigation/rbimprov...](http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/navigation/rbimprovisedcompass01.html)

------
dhughes
Etymology Online has an interesting description for the word north:

 _"...possibly ultimately from PIE _ner- "left," also "below," as north is to
the left when one faces the rising sun..."*

It's pretty much arguing over our ancestors saying "to the left" in reference
to the rising sun.

------
kbutler
The position of most prominence and importance on a map is the center, not the
top.

Would you use a map application that always put the location you searched for
in the top left?

The article referenced this briefly (Italy and Jerusalem were disappointed to
not be at the center).

The manufactured controversy that Europe and America are traditionally at the
top of global maps is rather silly.

------
ArekDymalski
Two explanations came to my mind: 1\. East - the direction where the Sun
appears - was located on the right because the right hand had a special
meaning for people. 2\. South was located down (behind the back of someone
reading the map) to provide the maximum amount of light to the reader.

------
secstate
Seems to me the vast majority of habitable area lies in the Northern
hemisphere, so this would likely be an issue of statistics, not subconscious
superiority.

Also, magnetic north on a compass is a natural way to orient something.

~~~
mcv
> magnetic north on a compass is a natural way to orient something.

More so than magnetic south?

~~~
jessaustin
_More so than magnetic south?_

Perhaps more so than magnetic west-by-northwest, etc. The point is that there
are _two_ orientations that make sense with respect to compasses, rather than
a hundred. As to why it's a particular one of the two available possibilities,
that doesn't seem to require a conspiracy. At some point a critical mass of
cartographers simply chose north rather than south.

~~~
secstate
Indeed, and it doesn't take much data crunching to realize that the vast
majority of habitable space on the planet is in the northern hemisphere. No
slight to Africa, S. America, Australia and parts of India, but most of us are
up here in the North. Blame plate tectonics before you blame your white
European overlords

~~~
mcv
I don't see it as a slight on Africa. I think most of Africa is also in the
northern hemisphere.

------
georgecmu
Interesting historical exploration! The medieval debate on whether North, East
or South should be at the top of the map could be linked to the disagreement
on the East/North coordinate system convention of the modern day: ENU vs NED.

Generally, land vehicles use the ENU (East-North-Up) convention, with East
corresponding to the X axis and Z axis point up (against the gravity vector),
while sea and aircraft use the NED (North-East-Down) convention, with X axis
pointing North, and Z axis pointing down, aligned with the gravity vector.

~~~
couchand
Regardless of the east vs. north distinction, I find it very unnatural to have
an increasing vertical coordinate correspond to a movement towards the earth,
if for no other reason that calling sea level zero and using mainly positive
numbers above seems very convenient (for any vehicle except submarines).

~~~
7952
If you are measuring sea depth it doesn't make sense to have a minus sign when
most of your values will be negative.

Also, it is important to remember that sea level is an entirely arbitrary
concept that depends on your frame of reference. On nautical charts elevations
are usually measured against the lowest tide level which will be different to
the datum on GPS (for example).

------
acheron
I had heard a story once that the verb "orient" (as in finding where you are,
aligning yourself/something else, etc.) was related to east being on the top
of the map: you figured out which direction was "oriental" (i.e. eastern), and
matched it with the top of the map.

Later I researched it though and while that may have contributed, the more
likely original meaning came from people wanting to build their churches and
such to face east.

------
kiliancs
Just a small almost off-topic correction: Majorca was not Spanish-ruled in
1375, hence the name of the map "Catalan Atlas" attributed to cartographer
Abraham Cresques as well as the mentioned nickname of "el jueu de les
bruixoles" (in Catalan language).

------
squigs25
Is it unfair to also ask why the poles of the earth don't appear on the sides
of a map?

------
filereaper
The West Wing covered this on the topic of the Mercator Projection:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVX-
PrBRtTY](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVX-PrBRtTY)

cheers.

------
ableal
Interesting map; also a site with an extensive collection of old maps:

 _" While there is something endearing about the idea of an Indiana map maker
in 1871 [ preparing an atlas
[http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/s/91721z](http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/s/91721z)
] with Indiana squarely in the center of the world, the unfortunate side
effect was that most of the Midwest disappeared into the gaping crease between
atlas pages."_

------
jpatokal
_For Americans, it’s easy to think that our position, at the top left of most
maps, is the intrinsically preferable one._

This clearly was not written by a geek. Obviously the top right is preferable,
since it's the only region where both decimal latitude and longitude are
positive.

------
decentrality
A better "up" would be East, oriented to the Galaxy as a whole, rather than
Earth's roll relative to the Sun.

~~~
eCa
Compasses points to the poles, not the centre of the universe. I can see some
advantages to have compasses and maps point the same way.

~~~
decentrality
Sure, but spatial orientation and temporal orientation are too important to
leave to arbitrary tool particulars. It's really bad for the mind.

I get your point ( with correction by @JoeAltmaier ) but with GPS and the like
being the `new` tool, and with them needing new thought rather than
continuation of the old "because we always did it that way"... I'd definitely
go East in the future... along with changing calendars away from solar
orientation ( Gregorian primarily ).

But as with most things involving the masses, this all falls into the category
of why most use Metric versus Imperial, and why that is such a radical change
to expect. Still, great to see a post questioning "up" ...

~~~
lmm
I don't think that's a fair comparison. Metric measures have genuine practical
advantages in terms of unit conversions. Switching to East-oriented maps would
just be change for the sake of change. (Also a map projection distorts at the
poles, so it's best if the poles are in uninhabited areas that ships don't
sail through)

~~~
decentrality
Having a spatial orientation relative to the universe is of practical value to
conscious individuals. People with minds have a frame of reference. Updating
that is important, since our reality is bounded by our mental frame as much by
that, if not more by that, than by our knowledge.

I get what you mean, if this were still a boat-based world. I am saying we are
not in a boat-based world now. Our consciousness can re-orient.

Since we don't live in a boat-based world for the most part, it'd be more
helpful to tend toward an orientation to a place where people have minds more
often than people have ships. Part of why the world is the way it is, is
because we don't allow our minds and the mental framework of the masses follow
forward to an overall update to what in the world is actually worth orienting
to.

So it's not change for change's sake. It's updating to be true to what we
know, giving our minds the benefit of advancing onto a better framework.

Digital maps don't distort for curves. They just keep going with the surface
of the planet. Remaining true to a boat-based world is a disservice to mind-
having individuals.

~~~
cgh
Okay, but there are also practical concerns, like those of us who use map and
compass in our lives (for me, geocaching and hunting). It's very well to wave
your arms and talk about being a "mind-having individual" but it won't help
you navigate in the Coast Mountains.

------
jackgavigan
Someone needs to tell McArthur that his "Universal Corrective Map of the
World" is missing an entire continent.

------
nroose
That article says that Stuart McArthur on Jan. 26, 1979!

------
dschiptsov
Because a compass points there?)

~~~
ef4
But a compass points south equally well.

~~~
qbrass
But when you're facing north, the sun is behind you shining on the map.

~~~
daniel-cussen
Only in the northern hemisphere.

