
North Korea Sentences U.S. Student to 15 Years Hard Labor - huac
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-16/north-korea-sentences-u-s-student-to-15-years-xinhua-says
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jaequery
Man, the comments here are harsh! Let's atleast show some sympathy for support
of his parents and his family. I'm sure the word devastation won't even
describe the pain and fear that they may be going through. My hearts and
prayers goes out to his family, really wish him a quick and safe return.

~~~
jmspring
There can be sympathy for the loved ones, that said, the discussion does
remind me of similar discussions regarding of the teenager arrested for theft
and vandalism in Singapore in the 90s [1]. Outrage over him being caned.

I'm sorry, but travelers to a foreign country need to be at least cognizant of
local customs (read the section in a travel book before going), and if they
break the rules, expect to face consequences.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay)

~~~
jorgecurio
We could really use caning to discipline juvenile offenders. Nothing like a
good ass whooping to teach kids right from wrong. Unfortunately, grounding
kids only work for those within the safety nets of middle class. It is not
enough nor is it realistic to threaten to take away a child's things when
there's nothing to take away because of poverty.

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pkrumins
Here's a video of him confessing to his crime:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYUMImDfhoo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYUMImDfhoo)

~~~
welly
Very well scripted by the NK government, almost like he picked the words
himself.

~~~
striking
A couple of those phrases just didn't sound right, as if they weren't picked
by a native speaker. "...their treatment of _severe criminals_ like myself and
of their _fair and square legal procedures_ in the _DPR Korea_ "

As well as how awkwardly he walked in and bowed. Perhaps that's how people of
the DPRK bow, but I've never seen that before.

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4msonny
dont we have a couple teenagers and several adults
imprisoned....indefinitely...without any charges...at gitmo? why such outrage
at NK but none at what our own govt. has been engaged in for over a decade..

~~~
jsnk
I thought people locked up at gitmo are terrorists who wanted to kill people.
This guy on the other hand tried to steal a poster. I can't even fathom how
you are trying to draw parallel between the two cases.

~~~
deciplex
> _I thought people locked up at gitmo are terrorists who wanted to kill
> people._

If only there were some kind of open forum, or even a closed forum where the
records of same are made public, where the government could present evidence
in favor of this assertion, and the accused could defend themselves against it
in kind. We could even mandate that they be set free, should they prove
themselves innocent, or that they be required to serve a _defined_ prison
term, should they not.

What a more just world we might live in, where such privileges were granted to
everyone, regardless of how grievous the crimes they were accused of might be.
Oh well.

~~~
lewisl9029
Exactly. For all we know about the people in Gitmo and the legitimacy of their
sentences, they might as well be a bunch of _very_ unlucky poster thieves.

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gesman
This stupidity is equal to bringing drugs to Singapore or trying to collar a
bear cub in front of bear mom in the middle of wilderness.

You could have fun or lose your life. Make a call.

If adult cannot make a judgement call simple enough he becomes a learning
statistics for others.

On the other side i think NK will keep him in reasonable conditions to
leverage the situation eventually returning him back.

~~~
akamaka
It's not comparable at all. Posters on the street are seen as being disposable
in most parts of the world, and it's hard to imagine being arrested for, say,
pulling down an Obama campaign poster and taking it home. Drug trafficking and
hunting large predators are pretty much illegal everywhere, on the other hand.

~~~
chimeracoder
> it's hard to imagine being arrested for, say, pulling down an Obama campaign
> poster and taking it home

It's actually funny you mention campaign posters specifically - because yes,
you can get in very serious legal trouble for taking down campaign signs in
certain states.

Source: I know people who took down opposing campaign signs for the opposing
candidate. Fun times were not had, except perhaps by the lawyers.

~~~
akamaka
Oh, that's a good point. I was just imagining a fan taking a poster home for
personal use, but that sort of thing could easily fall under campaign laws.

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nness
So, on one hand I understand that people visiting foreign countries are
expected to follow the laws of that country. Plenty of tourists have been
severely punished (or worse, executed) in places like Singapore and Indonesia
for drug offences. Of all places you'd expect punishment for vandalism, NK
certainly seems the most likely place.

I think the real concern is the disproportionate response to the crime. Which,
may in part be; 1. both a deterrent for others, 2. a show of force against the
US, 3. something which forces the US to reduce some of its embargos.

So, pity the fool and hope that something diplomatic can be done.

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roasm
I find it interesting the article uses "exchange for money" instead of "sell".
It's as if the author is bending over backwards to make us more sympathetic to
the student.

~~~
jonah
His Wikipedia page uses similar language with more detail:

"On February 29, 2016 he confessed to stealing a piece of North Korean
propaganda from his hotel's staff-only section to take back to the United
States as a "trophy" for someone willing to recompense him with a $10,000
reward."

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Frederick_Warmbier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Frederick_Warmbier)

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beedogs
Pretty crazy to see people here justifying this ridiculous sentence for
something that may not have even been done on purpose. What is wrong with some
of you?

~~~
executesorder66
So he accidentally took down the poster? How does that happen?

~~~
viraptor
We're not going to really know what happened there until he's out. But the
question did remind me of an old Polish movie ending in a scene where a guy
tries to fix a broken flag and the police stops him for breaking it.
([https://youtu.be/34OcRxapLY0?t=10m10s](https://youtu.be/34OcRxapLY0?t=10m10s)
"citizen, are you taking down national flag? papers please") NK publishes a
lot of lies. Let's not rely on them for judging people.

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l33tbro
For those curious, here's his full press conference (1) presented in glorious
4:3 aspect ratio. This is obviously prior to recent sentencing:

(1)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCZvgY1NGXU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCZvgY1NGXU)

~~~
joshmn
NK is pioneer for 4:3 video technologies. Only America uses inferior 16:9.

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tim333
On the downside it's not nice for the student and a pain for US negotiators
trying to get him out. On the other hand it may help throw some light on the
issues of the 150,000–200,000 prisoners incarcerated in various prison camps,
who don't get the press coverage.

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meddlepal
So am I supposed to feel bad for Otto? We all know NK is a disaster of human
rights, but hey fuck it, this kids thinks he's gonna prove a point by taking
down a propaganda poster? This is lazy activism. Congrats, you prover your
point. Meanwhile, we now need to spend real diplomatic points figuring out how
to get you free'd all while you rot in some NK hell hole. By the way, nobody,
or at least almost nobody will ever remember what you did.

~~~
thedz
You are supposed to feel bad, because even if what he allegedly did is stupid,
the sentencing is not in any way proportionate to the action.

And that's assuming he really did what North Korea says he did. It's not the
first time they've made up charges, or trumped up benign accidents into
intentionally malicious acts coordinated by the US Gov.

~~~
jonah
There's mention of the arrest from an HN member who saw it first-hand in the
thread from yesterday on photos from DPRK:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11287535](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11287535)

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finishingmove
Similar story (just reverse the severity of the crime and the punishment):
[http://www.b92.net/eng/news/crimes.php?yyyy=2016&mm=01&dd=14...](http://www.b92.net/eng/news/crimes.php?yyyy=2016&mm=01&dd=14&nav_id=96702)

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donatj
I bet he feels dumb. That sucks, but still REALLY? Why did he possibly think
that was a good idea?

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pcurve
I've always found it interesting how US citizens can travel to NK, but not
Cuba. I do realize things are changing with travel to Cuba but there are still
restrictions

~~~
pg_bot
Fun fact, US citizens can now visit both countries.

~~~
nerfhammer
They relaxed more of the restrictions on travel to Cuba just today:
[http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/16/us/politics/white-house-
cu...](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/16/us/politics/white-house-cuba-
restrictions.html)

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savanaly
HN really, really dislikes college kids, especially the globe trotting
outgoing ones. I know because I fall in that camp of haters sometimes. Totally
withhold judgement in this case, though, since we know almost no facts.

~~~
dalke
Do not extended your personal views against college students to all of HN
readership. Your hatred does not represent my views.

~~~
savanaly
It was meant tongue in cheek. I honestly don't hate anyone.

~~~
dalke
So you hate on college students just for the lulz? And think that's
representative of HN readership?

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zerooneinfinity
He got off easy, it's 60 years in the United States.

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eruditely
Our people will get him out right? We have special operations that handles
this?

~~~
tomjen3
Donald trump would.

Obama? Not sure he can be a softy or not depending

------
btian
I hope Obama shows some strength here and not let Donald Trump take the
spotlight.

~~~
jessaustin
Wait, what? Why would any politician give this dude a second thought? They
certainly don't mind incarcerating dudes who steal from the government _here_
, why would they care about NKBK incarcerating dudes who steal from the
government there? The fact that of the two politicians you mention, I can't
predict which will do the stupid saber-rattling thing, seems to illustrate
Trump's point, if I may be forgiven for steelmanning such into existence. (I
voted for Bernie today, but I see why others vote for Trump.)

~~~
wpietri
Because we do what we can to assist our citizens overseas. As far as I know,
all countries do:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consular_assistance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consular_assistance)

This guy is a total fuck-up, no doubt. Many Americans are, though, and I don't
think that merits 15 years at hard labor. Especially since part of the reason
the North Koreans are doing this is likely because of international politics.

