
The Deadly Global War for Sand - appleflaxen
http://www.wired.com/2015/03/illegal-sand-mining/
======
beat
There are lots of different kinds of sand, some pretty specialized.

In Minnesota, we're losing our beloved Renaissance Festival grounds to sand
mining. The sand is uniquely useful for the kinds of drilling and fracking
techniques used in the North Dakota oilfields, so it's worth more to strip-
mine than to support a multi-decade business that generates millions in income
every year. Sigh.

~~~
burger_moon
Instead they're providing jobs to thousands year round and generate hundreds
of millions in income.

~~~
DanTheManPR
Or, you know, providing dozens of jobs and generating under ten million in
income, while destroying hundreds of jobs and a cultural gathering place.

[http://www.manta.com/c/mthg8jf/bryan-rock-products-
inc](http://www.manta.com/c/mthg8jf/bryan-rock-products-inc)

I don't blame the mine owners - they'll make more money exploiting the land
than continuing to rent it to the Ren Fest. But I'm not convinced that it's a
net benefit for the community.

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jhull
Images of the same thing in Sierra Leone, destroying the potential tourism
industry [http://www.bbc.com/news/world-
africa-20897658](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-20897658)

~~~
snake_plissken
I cringed while looking at these. One only hopes, especially in Sierra Leone,
that the sand is thoroughly washed before it is used to make concrete...

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MistahKoala
Harvard Design Magazine recently covered this in a Singaporean context:
[http://www.harvarddesignmagazine.org/issues/39/built-on-
sand...](http://www.harvarddesignmagazine.org/issues/39/built-on-sand-
singapore-and-the-new-state-of-risk)

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prolways
I'm wondering if it's possible to turn this problem into a solution. I don't
know the numbers, so I'm probably off by orders of magnitude, and maybe it's a
losing energy proposition, but:

One of the biggest harms of global warming/climate change/whatever you want to
call whats happening is the sea level rising. Is it possible we could use
enough sand collected from the seabed to offset this sea rise?

~~~
ChuckMcM
This is a fun math problem to use as an interview question, it can expose how
people think.

The interesting trick is to assume 75% of the earth is covered in ocean, And
sea levels are expected to rise 20 meters (or more). Since you can meet "half
way" between the rise in the sea level vs the lowering of the sea floor, you
remove 10M of sea floor, and re-distribute it over the 25% of the "land", that
means that all of the land goes up by 10M/.25 (the ratio of land to sea) or 40
meters.

So burying the continents under 40M of sand would counteract a 20M rise in sea
level, sort of :-)

~~~
Retric
Moving that much of the crust around would likely to create fairly massive
earthquakes and the surface of the earth is effectively floating so you are
limited on how much you can change things. Still if you’re willing to move a
lot of rock you could more or less get it to work.

But, your solution would raise the land and lower the sea levels at the same
time. You want the difference (added land) + (lower ocean) = 20M. (.25 land :
.75 ocean = 1:3) Removing 5M of sea floor would add 5 * 3 = 15M of land 5 + 15
= 20.

Of course there is little need to raise all land just the low lowing areas
would be enough. Or you could also make new land vs messing with any of the
existing land.

~~~
ChuckMcM
Oh, so you want to go for bonus rounds!

Bonus question #1: If sea level rise is an exponential with respect to time,
at what rate would we have to extract sea floor material to keep the level at
a current coastline constant?

Bonus question #2: What is the minimum sea wall you would need along the coast
of all continents in order to hold back sea level rise?

The point being such questions are always useful for eliciting the
interviewee's response who questions they might consider to be "unknowable"
when they start the interview.

~~~
Retric
I have no idea why people like to use HS math problems for interviews.

#1 If the ratio is A:B, then you need to remove A/(A+B) * f(x). So, using your
numbers it's 1/(1+3) * f(x) = 1/4 f(x). #2 = rise + safety factor. But, safety
factor is going to be some BS number. Area wise it's got to deal with rivers
not just coast lines, but for a minimum wall you could in theory just use
pumps and ridiculous amounts of energy.

Honestly, Google actually tracked this stuff and these types of problems are
very poor indicators of workplace performance.

PS: For more fun with exponential functions grub starts a reaction that
produces 1 atom the first day 2 atoms the second day... 2 ^n. Now your blast
away from the area in a space ship at .9c, approximately how long do you get
to live? Hint the earth has around 10^50 atoms it's radios is ~4,000 miles and
the speed of light is 1.6 * 10^10 miles per day.

~~~
ChuckMcM

       > I have no idea why people like to use HS math problems
       > for interviews.
    

Did you go through Google's hiring class? I did. There is a lot going on in an
interview, and much of it has to do with how people respond to stressful
situations. That is especially true of people interviewing at a place like
Google because they often feel like it is their "dream job" and if they blow
it they will end up homeless or something.

The important thing about interview success is getting an understanding of
three things, can the person listen, can they reason under stress, and can
they get stuff done. The candidates always over think the questions, it is the
nature of things. Locking someone up mentally because you've over stressed
them a question on tensor physics really doesn't help determine if they would
be a good candidate or not. If you start with the HS math and they blow
through it, you can work your way up to multi-variable calculus :-)

------
brianbreslin
Is there much research being done on alternate polymers or binders which can
be produced to be used as an alternative on a large scale to sand? I remember
reading about mushrooms/fungi being grown for use in a cement-like material.

Its troubling to see these issues across every resource we have and need in
the world. Off the coast of florida here we have sandmines dredging in the
gulfstream. They look like wider versions of oil rigs.

------
cgtyoder
Once again with the shitty Wired paging that doesn't take into account its
cute little header! Fix it people - it's not that hard.

~~~
cjensen
That's my new pet peeve -- using "page down" on an article only to have some
of the content I want to read hide under an idiotic header floating over the
content.

~~~
Spooks
"page down" is working for me, the last sentence up to just below the floating
header.

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jqm
In the article, the guy that dived for sand bringing it up in a bucket made
$16 dollars a day. He had to dive about 40 feet down. Someone else hauled the
sand up that he dove for. This person made less.

So lets say between the two and maybe a boat, $25-35 a day. I looked up how
much concrete sand costs... in the US at least I found it for $7 a ton. Are
they able to bring up 3 or 4 tons a day per two man team diving down 40 feet?
I am skeptical, but maybe there is something I don't understand.

~~~
foofoo55
They would only need a 2.7 gallon (USG) bucket to bring up 4 tons per day.

But please check my estimate: A cubic yard of sand can weigh approx 3000 lbs,
so that's 2/3 of a cubic yard per ton. 27 cubic feet per cubic yard, so 18 per
ton, which is 135 USG. 4 tons (from your question) is then 540 gallons, and at
200 dives per day that is 2.7 gallons per dive.

I'd bet they do more like 8 tons per day per diver.

~~~
jqm
200 dives a day, lets say they are super and work a 10 hour day (for easy
math).

That's 20 dives an hour or one every three minutes. Diving down 40 feet and
bringing up a 3 gallon bucket of sand, once every three minutes for 10 hours
straight again seems... very difficult (or maybe a bit improbable).

Perhaps it's a special kind of sand and they get more money for it so they
don't have to do quite that much?

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arethuza
Of course, you can also take the approach of building using sand that has been
turned into a convenient construction material by the forces of nature:

[http://www.edinburghgeolsoc.org/r_sites_cra.html](http://www.edinburghgeolsoc.org/r_sites_cra.html)

~~~
seunosewa
That's probably even more scarce than sand.

~~~
arethuza
Interesting question though - is there more sand or sandstone in the world?

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mschuster91
Is it worth the effort to recycle used concrete or other scrap from tearing
down buildings in order to replace/supplement sand?

~~~
nyargh
Concrete is already recycled - although it is mostly used for subgrade (the
aggregate underneath a concrete slab) and is considerably cheaper than crushed
rock.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete_recycling](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete_recycling)

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DannoHung
So is there research on turning desert sand into construction material? Taking
sand out of the Sahara's borders would be a good thing, right?

~~~
beat
The Sahara is a complex ecosystem, like everywhere else (actually, it's a
network of several deserts with different geographies, climates, and
ecosystems). It's not a dead place, and can't just be harmlessly stripped.

That said, it's easier to make square sand round than round sand square. It's
probably easier to crush rock into concrete-appropriate sand than to turn
desert sand into concrete sand.

~~~
angersock
_It 's not a dead place, and can't just be harmlessly stripped._

That's never stopped us before!

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cylinder
Everything is a "war" when it comes to American journalism.

~~~
deeviant
Perhaps a war against wars is justified?

~~~
theandrewbailey
No. America has got themselves into plenty of trouble fighting wars against
things that are common nouns.

~~~
deeviant
Perhaps a war against warring then?

~~~
heavenlyhash
Points for effort, but doesn't that automatically become a gerund since it's
the object of a preposition?

