
How Getting Married and Having Kids Made Me a Better Programmer - johnpolacek
http://johnpolacek.com/2013/03/24/how-getting-married-and-having-kids-made-me-a-better-programmer/
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rayiner
As someone with a four month old this really resonates with me. I got the best
grades of my entire life the two semesters my wife was pregnant, despite
having to spend time helping her cope with e.g. morning sickness and school at
the same time. I take the night feedings now and find that I just don't need
as much sleep as I used to. Some people have always functioned fine on 5 hours
or so but I was never one of them. I'm forced to be efficient. My wife needs
me to be there to give her a break from the baby on weekends and late in the
evening, so I have to try and make every baby free hour count.

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shn
I have mixed feelings about this. Being married definitely forces you make
different decisions than you would otherwise. You cling on where you are
longer, no adventure. There are no quick decisions, but long and strategized,
calculated ones. I think one makes more "mature" decisions when dealing with
an adverse situation.

However, on the other hand being married and having children (2 in my case) is
a huge attention drain. You probably will buy the dwelling you're living and
it bring its own distraction. Working long stretches of time, and even keep on
thinking and solving problems while not working is long gone.

Would I trade family to the other? No way, life is more than that. It's
probably a cliche but true; smile of a cute 1 year old daughter worth more
than millions of lines of code.

~~~
newbie12
Opposite for me. I was only able to launch my startup after getting married,
and having a wife with steady income and health care.

~~~
shn
How about children?

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jroseattle
I imagine most everyone with kids will agree with this at some level. The
environment changes dramatically.

For me, I discovered that work and programming and problem solving _slowed
down_ , in a good way. While not suggesting comparability, it's something that
top athletes have consistently remarked on -- how the game slowed down for
them and it made them able to move about more effectively as they competed.

I experienced the same thing as a developer after I had kids. Problems seemed
more clearly defined, challenges seemed not so insurmountable, and
alternatives with little/no chance of succeeding became more clearly defined.
I absolutely attribute that to having kids, and the mindset it imposes on you
as a responsible parent.

It may have been that I needed something else to focus on in order to ensure I
was not missing the forest for the trees. Nonetheless, having kids and being a
better programmer? No one could ever convince me that's not the best outcome
for my own circumstance.

~~~
as_if
My experience with parents was, that they became more serios about their
career. But I can't say they became really good at their job.

Probably they became better than they were before, but not as good as I wished
them to be...

Anyway, I don't like to work with people when they get to serious about stuff.

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seivan
I remember when hearing about this asshole MBA standing on a stage in
Singapore talking about how he wouldn't hire developers who were parents.

I've not done my own startup yet, but I suspect developers that also were
parents would understand responsibility and dependency the best. It's a bit of
a generalisation, but so is the fact that most MBA's are useless cunts. Not
going to name this person, but googling could help.

I'm not a father, and I have no need to become one, but I've noticed parents
are usually incredibly responsible.

~~~
rayiner
Dude sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Not hiring parents is a great idea if you just need some warm bodies willing
to kill themselves for beanies, but that doesn't say much about your company.
If you're looking for people with real expertise, then you're limiting
yourself greatly by focusing only on people who are still single into their
30's (not that there is anything wrong with that, it's just atypical).

~~~
rdouble
In Silicon Valley, nobody has kids until their late 30s, if ever.

Edit: the post I replied to originally said something to the effect that
finding engineers without kids by age 30 would be statistically difficult.
Which is false in Silicon Valley. That said, it's also not atypical in Silicon
Valley to remain single well into your 30s.

~~~
bearmf
This is just not true. If you look at immigrant software engineers, they are
usually married by 30 and then start having kids.

~~~
rdouble
I'd like to see your data. Silicon Valley aside, the trend for women with
college degrees has been to postpone childbirth until around age 35. This
isn't exactly news.

~~~
rayiner
The average age of college educated women at first birth is 30:
[http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/03/getting-
mar...](http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/03/getting-married-
later-is-great-for-college-educated-women/274040/)

~~~
rdouble
If Europe, Canada, New Zealand and Australia are included in those statistics,
the age is closer to 35.

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codeonfire
Tired of these self-fluff pieces getting upvoted. Is this 'popular hacking' or
hacker news?

On the face of the article: No, I wholeheartedly disagree. Less is not more
and don't believe anyone telling you that. This guy is claiming that now that
he has less time he is 6X better at his job due to 'unconscious cognition'.

I feel for all the parents out there that have kids and still maintain a
career, but we need some evidence to go along with the article. Right now,
this article looks like appeal to emotion. Everybody likes family and feels
good about it. Skill and ability, like everything else, still needs to be
measured and tested.

~~~
noknockers
>On the face of the article: No, I wholeheartedly disagree. Less is not more
and don't believe anyone telling you that. This guy is claiming that now that
he has less time he is 6X better at his job due to 'unconscious cognition'.

I think becoming a parent, like everything in life, just taught him some
lessons: How to manage his time and looking at the big picture often puts
things into perspective. Both these things help with efficiency.

It's almost identical to what I went (and still going) through with having
kids. I got much better at 'mind hacking'. I could be playing with the kids or
making dinner or whatever and my mind is hacking away at solution to problems.

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nicholassmith
I thought I was a great programmer when I was 19 and staying up for 30 hours
grinding it out. I was totally wrong. I'm on the wrong side of 25 and I've
realised even though I spend less time writing code, I'm a significantly
better programmer because of it. Sometimes to write code, you must not write
code; wax on, wax off grasshopper.

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general_failure
Agree. And this probably works if you want to be a programmer ie something
quite independent and you don't 'run' things.

I used to be a lot more entrepreneurial before my son. Having a child changes
things, a lot more than marriage. There was a constant feeling of guilt of
working on something when he was there to play with. I always felt I would
miss out on something if I was working. Ultimately, entrepreneurial pursuits
weren't as much fun as they used to. At some point (subconsciously), I decided
my time with the kid was time I would never get again and gave up on my side
projects.

Only time will tell if my decision is what makes me have no regrets :)

That said, I certainly believe that having no family commitments make you do
'big' things. If you see history, most 'great' people achieved things at the
cost of family - Gandhi, Einstein, etc.

There is simply no time to do 'great' things and be with your wife/children.

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noir_lord
I noticed something similar (though without having the wife and kids (though
I'm getting the hints)).

I recently switched to working from home while I sorted out a new office and
thought "wow, 8-10 hours a day I'll be so productive"... nope.

Much the same as mentioned in the article I find I work best in blocks of 2-3
hours with a decent period to cogitate before the next block. Now I've moved
into my new offices I have someone to grab lunch with and/or can go for a
wonder round the museum (which is opposite office and has a lovely
garden/pond).

It was a valuable learning experience though as I'd always aimed for working
from home as a perfect programming environment and it turns out that I'm only
productive at home on a night if I've been somewhere else during the day.

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jaynate
Great post, and good follow on commentary as well. I wholeheartedly agree with
the author. Using this technique (forcing myself to walk away from directly
solving a problem) got me through my college calculus course.

Now that I have kids (3 of them), i know that a battle with a tricky bug or
business problem is nothing compared to a battle of wits with a two year old.

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tabulatouch
Definitely agree with you. From the moment my now 2 years old daughter was
born, a hidden register in my brain was activated to warn me every time i was
losing time. I mean: losing time in my programming work. This is the main
effect of having a constraint, less time, results in more efficiency. I also
agree on the unconscious problem solving function, always related to taking a
break, it really seems our lives could be better lived taking the right time
to pause, relax, think. Still researching and experimenting on these things.

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tacoman
When you have kids and you realize how little time you have, it forces you to
learn to identify and focus on the things that matter. This easily translates
to your career.

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drawkbox
I think it really comes down to the programmer.

I have heard from people without kids that they wouldn't hire people with kids
sometimes based on them being busy.

I have heard married with children people say that they like to hire married
with kids for more dedication.

What I have found is that single or married, some people just manage time
better and have a knack for contributing in a way that makes a product better
or not. Personally, I feel that parenting and being married with a kid has not
only made me a better efficient programmer but it has made me a better product
person somehow. I care more about a larger set of the target market. I want my
things to work for kids, core and adult to old age if possible.

In the end it is all bias, it comes down to good and bad and who can deliver
in ample time with the best product. It isn't easy either way. I know I would
tire of chasing girls and finding time to code/build/make products, with my
wife and kid and home it is very much like a lab or study kind of setup. Lots
of support and lots of motivation but also great time for focus.

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hello_newman
This article really hit a nerve with me. I am 21, single, surfer, and have had
the opportunity to be able to spend time with many pretty and interesting
ladies. But I got accepted into DBC and am now, more or less, out of the
"college-mentality" and am now thinking more clearly.

As a 21 year old, when you are not working or studying, almost everything you
do revolves around trying to pick up some girl. I got tired of it because I
would rather learn software than pretend like I care what some girl is talking
about just to get in her pants.

I have known this one girl for 8 years and we have essentially grown up
together and spent our teenage years together. I used to be against marriage
because of not wanting to get tied down. But she is my best friend, someone
who I could spend every day with, which is what marriage really is about. She
wouldn't tie me down, because she understands what i am doing and what I want
to accomplish. Pursuing some girl just to bed her...would tie me down because
you get "addicted" to trying to it. It's fun, but it makes you feel dirty and
shameful.

Many of the arguments the OP makes really resonates with some of the reasoning
I have come up with. If you have someone who supports you, and she in return
is expecting you do to the same, that is the most valuable asset that you
could have. It provides better motivation than almost anything else I could
think of. She is trusting YOU to provide for her. When your back is against
the wall, you can do some pretty incredible things because what your doing HAS
TO work.

Not to go too far into it, but the point I was trying to make was I am
seriously considering proposing to this girl. I am leaving, so this is kind of
my Hail Mary. Maybe this is the worst decision I could ever make, maybe not.
Thanks for a great read and I will be taking this article into consideration
when making my next move.

Keep the good writing coming!

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senthilnayagam
as a young man, girls and sex was always a distraction in my mind, I had more
frustrations than successes.

all my achievement have been post my marriage, most after having my kids. It
brought me focus and calm to my mind, I was not looking around, I was happy
and contend, I knew what I wanted and was making progress each day.

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jzelinskie
This is why I sleep on tough problems. I can honestly feel my brain thinking
about it while I sleep and usually by the time I wake up, I have a solution or
at least a new vector for attack. My father is the same way and keeps a
notepad by his bed for this same reason.

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bearmf
There might be a correlation, but it is almost impossible to prove that kids
cause one to get better at one's job. For example, I am sure that people with
kids (up to a certain number) earn more. But it might just be that they
started earning more and then had kids.

What I believe is that kids are a normal part of life very different from
anything you have experienced before them. Having them has nothing to do with
your career (or should have nothing to do with it), and they don't really care
where you work up to a certain age.

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codegeek
Even though I have not taken the entrepreneurial plunge yet (in the true
sense), I just had my first child 2 weeks ago and for some reason, at age 31
with a kid, I feel like I am more than ready now to get into doing what I
want. No more distractions. I know what I need to focus my day on and nights
on (well nights is mostly for baby with breaks in b/w :))

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freework
What he is describing is basically Hammock Driven Development:
<http://blip.tv/clojure/hammock-driven-development-4475586>

Dealing with kids is a form of stepping away from the computer.

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up_and_up
+1 My kids are sleeping right now!

1.5 - 2 hours is the max 'free programming time' I have anymore.

~~~
jedberg
And you're wasting it here. :)

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reiz
Thanks for posting this! I think there is a lot of true in it.

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michaelochurch
There's a lot of truth in this, but there's one thing I'll disagree with:

 _When you have a family to support, becoming great at what you do is
excellent job security. Thus, doing web development has gone from being a fun
thing that I do for a job, to a very important fun thing I do as my career.
Now, my own personal hustle factor is at an all-time high._

This assumes that being good at your job and job security are positively
correlated. Possibly above the 75th percentile and certainly above the 90th,
it swings the other way, and hard.

First, when you're really good, you tend to get into conflict with
intermediate players to whom you're a threat rather than an asset. Your
company might benefit abstractly from you being good, but "The Company"
doesn't write your performance reviews. Maybe your boss gives you shitty work
so you don't develop and become a threat. Possibly, mediocre colleagues tear
you down. At the 80th percentile, you'll almost never be fired for low
performance but there's little overperformance risk. At the 95th, you can be a
fucking lighting rod for resentment in a nasty, dysfunctional environment and,
let's be honest, most work environments are pretty broken.

Second, there are all the risks you have to take to _get_ good. To get past
1.4 or so (scale here: [http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/01/26/the-
trajector...](http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/01/26/the-trajectory-
of-a-software-engineer-and-where-it-all-goes-wrong/) ) you need to start
taking creative risks and have room to fail. Beyond 1.8, you either need
managerial buy-in or extreme autonomy-- and sometimes, you gotta take it
through means that aren't the most accepted. We still live in a "hacker"
reality: you get good by breaking rules.

It's great that the OP seems to live in a world where things actually work and
there's a positive correlation between security and technical excellence. For
most people in our industry, however, the need for a regular income induces
conformist mediocrity rather than moon-shot excellence.

~~~
lbrandy
This is a dangerous line of thinking, useful as a counterpoint to consider,
but a terrible basis for thinking about your life and career.

The problem is that the worst kind of engineer is the one who thinks he is a
top 5% engineer, who proclaims his, and all other, organizations
dysfunctional, who is convinced his managers and peers are out to get him
because of their jealousy, who sees enemies everywhere, and who ends up
getting along with no one, self-fulfilling the prophecy, and being a net
negative.

Being really good at your job is a great way to succeed in life almost
everywhere. If you frequently find yourself in political death struggles in
organization after organization, it might be time for some self reflection.

~~~
jakejake
I was just thinking that it's interesting how at least 80% of developers are
in the top 5%. It's one of the truly amazing things about our industry, we
defy the laws of mathematics.

~~~
hayksaakian
I think its just another byproduct of America's confidence culture, where any
sign of uncertainty next the a confident idiot paints you as inferior.

~~~
jakejake
I have to plead ignorance about other countries. But in the US, I haven't
really encountered too many developers who I sensed projecting superiority for
the sake of job security. What I mean is that my impression is that they truly
do believe they are a top developer. I have run into a few of those "job
security" guys who are difficult to work with, but not that often.

I think part of it is that it's easy to look at another developer's code which
you inherit and judge it to be inferior to your own work. I have found this to
be very common - the developer who is constantly griping about the terrible
code they inherited. (I myself have been guilty of this). But, it can be more
difficult to actually create the code - especially under time or budget
constraints or requirements that change over the years. So, in that case it
can be tempting to judge yourself as a better developer - when in reality you
may have created the same crappy code or worse.

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dsfasfasf
I never ever want to get married nor have kids. I plan to be an eternal boy
even way into my 90s if I'm lucky. All I want to do my entire life is
experiment, play, build, learn. Nothing less, nothing more. Sure, I still have
female friends to fulfill carnal needs but I do not care for long term
relationships. The world has 7 billion people already. It matters not if I
have no kids. I'm 35 already so I think that this is my destiny for if I were
to get married I probably would have done it in my 20's.

I have plenty of nephews and boy can they be a pain. Is nice to enjoy them for
a couple of hours but more than that and it becomes like trying to herd cats.
Don't get me wrong, I love them, but I just don't want to spend my entire time
with them. Which makes me more sure that kids are not for me.

So regarding this post, to each their own.

p.s. For some strange coincidence, all of my friends from college, female and
male alike, have not gotten married or had kids yet (except for one, and she
just had a kid with her partner, she doesn't really want to get married). I
wonder if this is a generation thing.

edit: Why the downvotes? Everybody is free to live how they choose.

