
‘Rape porn’ possession to be punished with 3 years in jail in the UK - rb2e
http://metro.co.uk/2013/11/17/rape-porn-possession-to-be-punished-by-three-years-in-jail-david-cameron-to-announce-4189512/
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spodek
Relevant video by Louis C.K. --
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za7jQ1s1BV0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za7jQ1s1BV0).

Porn or anything involving only consenting adults might look like something
else, but that doesn't make it something else. It's still consenting adults
and putting the government between them doesn't seem to me to help anything.

Things not involving only consenting adults are another story, but this law
(not that I'm an expert on it) seems to miss the distinction.

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mattivc
You could make the case that owning a movie such as
Irreversible([http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0290673/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0290673/))
would be punishable with jail time under this law.

There are much better laws that could be be put in place, or that already are
in place to protect women from sexual violence.

I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but the way western europe is
moving at the moment. It's starting to look more and more like the morality
police is taking over.

~~~
honzzz
Why would you say 'western europe'? I am not saying you are wrong. It's just
that I was surprised to see stuff like 'blocking porn' coming our of UK, I
have not seen anything like that in any other European country and my
perception of this was that it's just some weird UK puritanism or something.
Obviously I might have missed something.

~~~
objclxt
> _it 's just some weird UK puritanism or something_

It's politics. The Conservatives (David Cameron's party) are in coalition with
the Liberal Democrats. We can debate the merits of the coalition (many do),
but the upside is that some of the more extreme policies many Tories wanted to
put through have been blocked.

This creates a dilemma for David Cameron, not too dissimilar from that of the
US Republicans right now: on the one hand, there's an increasingly vocal wing
of the party that favors extremely conservative policies (such as pulling out
of the EU completely, replacing the EU Human Rights Act, small government, big
cuts, etc). On the other, there's the harsh reality that these policies have
no chance of getting through a parliament where they don't have an absolute
majority.

So we are left in this situation where David Cameron announces, on a fairly
regular basis, policies that are intended to appease his vocal right wing
members (a "British Bill of Rights", a referendum to exit the EU, outlawing
violent pornography, etc) that realistically have no chance of becoming
legislation. In the unlikely event these policies actually _do_ become
legislation (such as forcing unemployed people claiming benefits to work for
free) they normally end up being struck down by the courts.

I wouldn't disagree with your assessment that the UK is rather more puritan
than many of its continental Europe peers - but these policies aren't coming
out of that. They're coming out of the fact an election is not all that far
away, and the Tories desperately don't want to end up in another coalition
government.

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antihero
How the does this work with consensual kink? I mean, like, what actually
counts as "rape porn" \- simulated consensual non-consent? Any bondage at all?
This is so fucking stupid I don't even.

Edit: That said, this _is_ the Metro, who are basically the Daily Mail lite.

~~~
hacker789
I wouldn't be surprised if this measure makes the consensual rape kink even
more popular.

To answer your question:

 _> How the does this work with consensual kink?_

Even the possession of consensual porn will get you locked away, at least
according to the article:

 _> Mr Cameron is targeting websites which show videos and images of rape –
whether they claim they are ‘simulated’ or not._

~~~
mistercow
I wonder if there is any good data to support that idea, because I have
similar suspicions. It's a question with important implications for policies
related to sex and pornography.

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csmuk
I suppose HMV executives will obviously have to go to prison for posessing
copies of Deliverance, A clockwork orange and Mad Max to name a couple.

Makes me think of:
[http://i.imgur.com/vEqEHxP.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/vEqEHxP.jpg)

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transfire
So when do they outlaw simulations of shooting people with guns?

~~~
ithkuil
well, in the UK (except in Northern Ireland) police doesn't even carry guns.

~~~
asadlionpk
the point is they don't need to most of the times, which is actually good
thing.

~~~
ithkuil
the good thing about that is that if the police doesn't carry guns, the "need"
for criminals to carry the gun is reduced, and everyone wins.

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chimeracoder
> In a further crackdown on what Mr Cameron referred to as ‘the darkest
> corners of the internet’, Downing Street will tomorrow announce that a
> national database will be created to give every illegal image a label.

While we're at it, why don't we do that with videos, too? The label won't
contain any content, just some "metadata" that we can use to "verify" whether
or not an image/video is illegal. [0]

We should also create an easily-queried database for all of these, just in
case we aren't sure whether or not a particular image/video is actually
illegal.

Then, we can create a tracking program, or "tracker" to keep tabs on who is in
possession of these images/videos at all times, and broadcast their IP
addresses publicly[1].

I think this would be an excellent use of government money.

[0]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet_URI_scheme](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet_URI_scheme)

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTorrent_tracker](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTorrent_tracker)

~~~
cdash
Then when I check to see if it is illegal do I get arrested?

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peterwwillis
(trigger warning, obvs)

....And actual discussions about rape and rape culture become even more
diminished as the law _completely overlooks_ the wide-ranging aspects of rape.
It's often very difficult to identify if what you are seeing is consensual or
not, so now the law's basically going to redefine rape as... What? Some
stereotype of a guy in a mask with a knife to a defenseless person's neck?

From Wikipedia:

    
    
      The act may be carried out by physical force, coercion, 
      abuse of authority or against a person who is incapable 
      of valid consent, such as one who is unconscious, 
      incapacitated, or below the legal age of consent.
    

How the fuck are they going to be able to tell if the person in the picture is
of legal age of consent, or under the influence, or if they've been coerced?
What if they're just scared shitless and go along without consenting because
of prior trauma? Does the law give any indication how to tell just from a
picture or video what is rape and what isn't? Does a blog post or support
forum depicting one's own rape count as 'porn'?

There is no way to tell if something is or isn't rape just from looking as an
outsider. Rape varies in who is the victim, who is the abuser, and the
circumstances of how the attack takes place - often it doesn't even look like
an attack. Often it's a family member or relative. It very rarely gets
reported and it's almost never prosecuted successfully. All this law's going
to do is whitewash the reality of rape culture and prevent people from
addressing real issues in an adult fashion.

The other way to look at this is: Was rape already illegal? Yes. And wouldn't
possession of proof of rape just be used against you in court? Yes. So what
does this law actually accomplish? It attempts to sweep under the rug any
thoughts or imagery of rape, as if to pretend it never existed.

Good job, Cameron.

------
k__
Reminds me of the idea to prohibit actors who don't look like 18 from doing
pr0n.

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DanBC
It's hard to get any detail of the proposed changes from the tabloid Metro (a
paper distributed for free, usually by being left on the seats of public
transport).

Usually the laws are nuanced. Thus, you can still buy American Beauty even
though it has the uncovered breasts of an underage actress.

But this government has done stupid things - and it wouldn't surprise me if
they ban pornography of consenting adults with clear disclaimers (and
paperwork) that the scenes are simulated and the films contain pre- and post-
scene interviews with the actors.

~~~
objclxt
It's a pretty crappy story, given nothing has been announced yet (I assume
someone leaked something to the Metro in an attempt to get a good PR boost at
the start of the week).

I would say it is highly unlikely that whatever legislation does get passed
would make simulated rape images illegal to possess (in fact, I'd say it's not
going to happen).

It won't be the first - or last - time that a Prime Minister has announced
some fundamentally stupid piece of proposed legislation that will never get
passed, and simply is used to get some press. Cameron's government has a
history of particularly stupid proposals regarding the internet and the like
that never made it to fruition.

What will almost certainly happen is that possession images of _actual rape_
will be made illegal. I suspect many people consider the latter to be somewhat
different to the former (and if you don't, maybe you should stop and think
about that).

------
NAFV_P
I have a copy of Sergio Leone's "Once upon a time in America" on DVD, which
has two rape scenes.

It also has a sex scene involving a minor and shows Robert De Niro's character
smoking opium.

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liquidise
It is my understanding that an available veriety of pornography actually
reduces sexual crimes. As if the materials work as a sexual release for
potential would-be criminals.

If that is in fact the case, i fail to see what problem this solves.
(Obviously speaking about consented pornography and not released images/video
of a legal definition of rape)

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antidaily
Rape and Dog are entire sections of Japanese porn stores. So, in case you're
keeping score. Japan 1 UK 0.

~~~
meepmorp
Widespread popularity of rape porn is a +1 for Japan?

~~~
antidaily
Maybe not, but in Japan, rapes per 100,000 population is less than 1. In the
UK, it's around 25. So maybe watching rape porn isnt the issue.

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gordaco
What is that 3 years imprisoment going to achieve for society? Which is the
crime? Who's the victim?

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mike_herrera
> In a further crackdown on what Mr Cameron referred to as ‘the darkest
> corners of the internet’, Downing Street will tomorrow announce that a
> national database will be created to give every illegal image a label.

Cameron is laying the foundation to implement his censorship system.

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igorgue
Wonder how much would you get if you own "Machete Kills"

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vikramkadi
Are action movies and violent video games next on cameron's list?

