
Basic Social Skills Guide (2012) - lisper
https://www.improveyoursocialskills.com/basic-social-skills-guide
======
wallflower
While some of you may make light of the fact that I am giving you advice, my
single most important piece of advice to people who are highly analytical
and/or always solving problems is to not give unsolicited advice to friends,
family, acquaintances, or even strangers.

People will ask for advice if they really want it. People are not “broken
pieces of code” begging to be fixed.

I’ve lost friends over this, until one dear friend pointed this out to me in a
“look, I have to tell you something really really important” manner.

~~~
rollerboi
I've been working on this since I noticed it in myself a few years back. It's
really difficult because I'm the "problem-solver," but I'm also the person
that people want to vent to.

So I've come to realize - After a friend/coworker shares something that
they're sad/angry about, my standard MO is:

1) Say something like "Wow, that must really feel terrible. I'm sorry to hear
that!" (I always feel the need to add more to this statement, but it's better
off said with a light touch and not heavy-handed.) Then,

2) "I feel like I was in a similar situation a few months ago when..."
Important rule about this step - this statement is NOT to be a 1-upper. You're
not saying this to proclaim that your situation from the past is more
significant/worse than their situation. You're saying this because it helps
your friend/colleague understand that they're not alone in how they're
feeling, and their feelings are (generally-speaking) justified. Also - You
don't talk about what you did to solve the issue. You talk about how you felt,
etc. Be vulnerable, be open, and the person venting to you will respond
similarly. Finally,

3) Ask "So what are you gonna do about it?" This kinda turns its head on the
status-quo. Usually, this is the time you start explaining "Well here's what I
did in my situation!" But that's not what you want here. Instead, you're
asking the person if they've thought of a plan to tackle the issue. If you've
established a "safe space" to discuss the topic, they feel more open about
sharing their plan to resolve the problem, even if they don't have a plan and
have to come up with it on the spot. Then, more likely than not, they'll ask
"What do you think?"

At this point, you're free to let your problem-solving self run wild, assuming
that you don't then consider your friend/colleague a "broken piece of code
begging to be fixed."

~~~
ljm
I’m a coach in training and question number 3 there is a powerful question.
That’s a really great question to ask because you’re not getting involved in
the topic, you’re not giving them ideas, and you’re not working through it for
them.

The others are too nuanced to easily explain, but “what are you going to do
with that,” is a fucking fantastic question when a friend confides in you.
You’re right that this requires some level of safety, but you are making sure
they are still self-empowered.

The worst thing you can do is remove that agency and try to solve someone’s
problems for them.

~~~
jimmaswell
"My car's been having trouble" "I know a good mechanic" "Oh my god how dare
you take my agency away from me, I'm never talking to you again"

Good riddance if that's how somebody in my life ever reacted in that
situation.

~~~
jdsully
The difference is whether the person is expected to manage the situation on
their own. If I said that to a buddy of mine who I know works on his own car
he would be upset. He imagines himself capable of working on cars and I just
communicated I don't think he can handle it.

Nobody wants to be the person that other people see as a basket case. Just
because someone is upset doesn't mean they can't solve the problem.

~~~
jimmaswell
You can make a scenario where anything is rude. Here, if he said something and
you said "could it be the fuel pump" that should also be an inoffensive
comment, not prompt him feeling like "how dare this fool presume to lecture me
about the inner machinations of an automobile; let this mark the end of our
friendship"

~~~
olyjohn
I dunno man, I think this is more for situations where people are having
personal or emotional issues. Things that they might be trying to work
through. Not for troubleshooting a broken car or computer.

~~~
ljm
Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance explores exactly this beautifully.

------
altonzheng
Another perspective (I learned from a therapist), is that we might already
possess the innate ability to be great conversationalist, it's just
performance anxiety that gets in the way. So for me, as someone who consumed
loads of self-help material without much improvement, it wasn't about learning
more skills or anything, it was about giving myself permission to be dumb,
boring, lame, and still accepting myself at the end of the day. And once I'm
able to do that, there's no more anxiety, and then everything becomes much
easier. I feel like this is a path to a more natural sort of confidence,
although you might get there by practicing social skills directly too. Very
painful though, and I'm still working on this.

Not saying this applies to everyone, but I think it's helpful for people who
approach their social anxiety with a type-A mentality.

~~~
JimboOmega
It's important that this applies to virtually any endeavor, from coding to
being social or dating.

You are going to be dumb, lame, awkward, etc at pretty much anything you
haven't done before; the only path to not being that way is to just tough it
through that awkward phase.

~~~
leggomylibro
One problem is that you aren't allowed to make mistakes in social situations
anymore without facing extreme consequences, and you're right that it isn't
the sort of thing you can learn by reading about it. There's really no chance
for young'uns to learn in this day and age.

It's tough, and the worst part is that there's no way out or hope for things
to improve. And you can't complain or seek help, or you get treated like
someone who must be broken to feel that way. It's an impersonal and
judgemental world that we live in today, no matter who you are or what your
views are like.

No wonder so many people seem to feel that our current culture and society are
so vehemently toxic that they aren't worth even trying to participate in.

~~~
WhompingWindows
What do you mean by "extreme consequences" for mistakes in social situations?

~~~
leggomylibro
For awhile now, everyone has been one viral moment away from mob justice. You
might lose your career, or you might get harassed day and night, or worse just
for slighting the wrong person.

But you also can't opt out of online socializing if you want to meet and keep
in touch with people.

~~~
StuffedParrot
This is ridiculous. R Kelly performed for years as a known pedophile with an
adoring fan base. Cancel culture is mostly a myth. You’d have to do something
pretty damn bad, way worse than “slighting”, for your behavior to go viral
enough you’re “harassed day and night”.

Social rejection is how you learn to be social, and it ain’t gonna ruin your
life. It’s just painful.

~~~
magashna
Remember the NASA scientist who got so much shit for wearing a shirt?

~~~
StuffedParrot
No... nothing on google either.

Edit: [https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/nov/14/rosetta-
come...](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/nov/14/rosetta-comet-dr-
matt-taylor-apology-sexist-shirt)

He wasn’t even fired. What is there to complain about? Cancel culture is a
myth.

~~~
magashna
The guy was brought to tears for wearing a shirt his female friend made. Just
because a company doesn't fire someone (and rightfully so) doesn't mean there
aren't pitchfork waving mobs screaming for the head of some
comedian/artist/random guy.

A great example of satirizing the movement would be 30 Rock's "Idiots are
people two!"

Edit: also that you dismissed it, even though googling my comment verbatim
would've given you a source, shows that you're starting at your conclusion
then working backwards. Trolling isn't appreciated

~~~
StuffedParrot
He wore it in public and as a representative of a state agency. The fact that
a woman made it doesn’t impact anything; he had a complete lack of
sensitivity, and he apologized, and he didn’t get fired. What is there to
discuss?

FWIW I preserved my original comment in good faith. I don’t appreciate your
not recognizing my edits.

------
wisty
Why are social skills always focusing on the positive? A lot of programmers
often seem to be more nice guys than anything else, and need to be able to be
more assertive / aggressive.

Everyone tries to distinguish these two, it's mostly just in the eye of the
beholder - IMO aggression is just assertion when it's judged to be
inappropriate or incompetently done - a drill instructor being assertive looks
different to a police officer in a stand-off which is different to how you
talk to co-workers - the distinction is highly contextual and subjective.

I think a lot of people with poor social skills thinks the aggression /
assertion line is all about being angry or shouty or rude. Assertion uses a
bunch of tools (including potentially - a louder or quieter voice, appearing
angry, threats, manipulations, etc) to achieve a goal. Doing so in an
inappropriate way is seen as aggressive (e.g. threatening to quit over a minor
issue). Overusing any given tool (e.g. swearing a lot instead of realising a
different tool is needed) is seen as incompetent (or losing control) thus it's
seen as aggressive. But fundamentally there's no real objective difference.

~~~
gherkinnn
Yes. That’s why I find dev.to and to be a rather uninteresting place.

It’s 90% niceties and explaining .map over and over again.

Similar things can be observed in many meetups and some companies. Everything
is awesome. Everybody is nice. People shy away from deciding _anything_. Even
the simple act of two people wanting to go through the same door at the same
time is an impossible conundrum.

No matter how important psychological safety is (and it really is), a constant
state of coddling serves nobody.

~~~
TeMPOraL
> _Even the simple act of two people wanting to go through the same door at
> the same time is an impossible conundrum._

Tangential, but I hit this issue very often with couple of friends during
university years; two of us wanted to go through a door, and get stuck in a
"you go", "no, you go", "I insist" loop. At some point I said, "you know what,
let's do rock-paper-scissors, if you lose you go first". It immediately caught
on with my friends, and ever since that, when attempting to go through a door
at the same time, we'd just exchange looks, and immediately play a wordless
round of rock-paper-scissor to resolve the conflict, while the rest of the
class looked at us and asked "WTF just happened?!".

~~~
hydrox24
> Even the simple act of two people wanting to go through the same door at the
> same time is an impossible conundrum.

I believe that the optimal solution to this problem is to offer, and then if
there is a counter-offer, take it. If the other person is offended then they
have followed the letter of the social law but do not understand it in their
hearts. In addition, it is often polite to take what is offered to you.

~~~
greggman2
it's not just polite to accept offers. It allows the other person to feel good
for the act of giving.

~~~
hydrox24
That's absolutely true. But I think it's worth noting just how often polite
acts are specifically for making others feel good. The two things are meant to
be fundamentally linked.

------
NegatioN
I feel like Jonathan Blow's most recent talk[0] touches on _why_ communication
is important from a selfish perspective, for us as "artisans"/creatives. It's
doesn't have to be about pleasing someone higher up in the hierarchy, it's
about communicating in such a way that the diff between what's in your mind,
and the other person's mind is as small as possible.

In doing this, we can more often achieve what we want, and have more support
to do so. As Jon also touches on, there will always be people who just aren't
interested in giving you the benefit of the doubt, but more often than not,
based on the explanations you give them, they extrapolate to something
completely different then what's in your mind at the time.

0:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVb6-Rkz7W4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVb6-Rkz7W4)

~~~
Wesxdz
Username checks out. Thanks for the link, I love Jonathan Blow's talks :)

------
cwkoss
I read some "pick up artist" literature in college: about two thirds of it is
misogynistic garbage, but the remainder has some good tips on general platonic
social interaction (and a major issue with insecure men is learning to
interact with women in a casual platonic way without acting odd and creepy
because they are hoping for more).

\- If you aren't good at speaking in a captivating way, literally write out
your best stories. People who are good at telling stories get this way from
practice: introverts naturally get less practice and thus tend to be less
talented at speaking. You can do a significant amount of practice on a story
without a partner - develop a few 2-3 minute anecdotes about yourself that
have a clear beginning, middle and punchline, and cut all extraneous
information that doesn't enhance the listeners enjoyment or teach them
something positive about your character. If the conversation with a new person
touches on something from one of your anecdotes, you will be able to quickly
go into your anecdote and be engaging. The process of editing a couple stories
will teach you to revise future stories without writing them down explicitly.

\- The Cube is a really great icebreaker when meeting new people and
conversation is petering out. [https://oliveremberton.com/2014/how-to-connect-
deeply-with-a...](https://oliveremberton.com/2014/how-to-connect-deeply-with-
anyone-in-5-minutes/) A couple times, I've captivated groups of 4-6 strangers
for about an hour with this. Everyone likes talking about themselves, and it
gives people a framework to discuss their self perceptions in a fun way, and
everyone learns some things about each other. (The mappings are somewhat
arbitrary, I learned it with ladder as work and flowers as friends)

~~~
0xffff2
That really has to be one of the more ridiculous ice breakers I've ever seen.
I'd ascribe about as much meaning to those supposed relationships as I would
to a grocery store horoscope, and in much the same way. If you're inclined to
do so, you can go back as you read the explanation of what each thing "means"
and pick out all of the bits you agree with to convince yourself that it makes
sense.

~~~
williamdclt
_Obviously_ this isn't an accurate psychological test. Yet it's a very
interesting social tool, because it's more subtle than it seems:

\- First, the most shallow interpretation, it sorta works. Not really of
course, but I could believe based on empirical evidence that the "mind
projecting itself on abstract objects" isn't totally BS. \- Second, when you
get explained the supposed meanings of each element, you enter an
introspective phase. You think about whether it does apply to you, "am I
actually a fairly transparent person?", "do I expect my partner to be a part
of me?". It doesn't really matter what you answered at first, it's your
reflection about it that should lead to a mildly interesting self-questioning
\- Third, and that's what people good at "basic social skills" have
understood, it doesn't even matter if you personally didn't get any insight on
yourself, or even if nobody around did. It's a door-opener, a way to engage
with people around you, to get personal with them. Is it a shallow outlook on
them? Doesn't matter, it's a start, a bond that you can strengthen continuing
the discussion.

~~~
0xffff2
We obviously have different social circles. I know exactly two kinds of
people. The first kind would openly mock me when I got to the "explaining what
it all means" part (if they let me get that far at all). The second kind would
eat this up and absolutely believe it to be some deep and accurate spiritual
insight.

------
dejawu
I'm not sure if I'm alone in this, but I vehemently avoid guides or manuals to
human interaction after a near-miss encounter with PUA shit in high school
that almost led to me becoming a very different and much less likable person.
Once I'm told that there's a certain way that is more or less "optimal" to
interact with other people, I'm going to start seeing every conversation as an
optimization problem, and that is simply not how I want to approach human
interaction. I'd much prefer to stick with the quite-imperfect but naturally-
obtained intuition that I've slowly gained over time.

~~~
vehementi
Had the same near-miss but doesn't that put us in a position to better
evaluate things? Read it with a critical eye? Understand it as tips and not
cheat codes? Note things that are in disagreement with how I behave and might
be worthy of introspection?

------
spodek
This community consistently poo-poos MBAs and business people who, it says,
don't contribute and just shuffle paper or find ways to lay people off.

I felt that way when I started my first company, finishing my physics degree.
I figured, I helped launch a satellite, I can do what we needed. A couple
patents later, we got our first funding and I knew how to solve what problems
came our way. I could break down any problem into simple parts, each of which
I could solve, for example.

I was blindsided when we went into a recession and my company neared
bankruptcy. Years later I realized the importance of teamwork and leadership
based in social and emotional skills, especially in difficult times. Difficult
times always happen.

The investors squeezed me out of that company. It didn't have to be that way.
I went back for an MBA and learned you could learn leadership skills, though I
also found that the way they taught them wasn't as effective as active,
experiential, project-based learning. I spent the dozen years since refining
how to teach them effectively, consistently hearing from my NYU students and
coaching clients, including senior executives, that they never knew they could
learn skills like how to inspire people, to speak authentically, to find
mentors, and so on, let alone in a structured class
[http://joshuaspodek.com/this-is-one-of-the-greatest-
classes-...](http://joshuaspodek.com/this-is-one-of-the-greatest-classes-i-
have-ever-taken-it-was-engaging-thought-provoking-challenging-and-fun).

I wish I had learned this stuff before I needed it instead of after. I made my
courses available in book form
[http://joshuaspodek.com/initiative](http://joshuaspodek.com/initiative) and
[http://joshuaspodek.com/leadership-step-by-
step](http://joshuaspodek.com/leadership-step-by-step). Whether from my
resources or others', these skills can be learned, they are valuable, and you
learn them, like any skills, through practice. You have to practice.

Incidentally, the skills improved my relationships throughout life besides
business too -- family, friends, girlfriends, etc.

~~~
refurb
I had a coworker who was a social butterfly. Loved nothing more than talking
to customers. She has a _huge_ impact on the business. She had basically
developed relationships with customers where she could pick up the phone and
call the top physicians in the US and ask a favor - and they would always say
yes. Was she good on the technical side? Not really, but she offered
incredible value.

Same thing with leadership. Get people to buy into your plans in a large
organization is not easy. Again, I had a colleague who was really good at it.
She could basically "get shit done". Did she understand the nuances of the
business really well? No. But we wouldn't have gotten anything done without
her.

HN loves to harp on the technical knowledge, but guess what? That's only a
part of a successful business. You might have the best product in the world,
but if your customers don't know that or you can't launch it, who cares?

~~~
humanrebar
> Get people to buy into your plans in a large organization is not easy.

The trick is usually not to approach it that way. Learn about others' goals
and help them out with a step or two in a way that also benefits the goals of
others, perhaps your own even. Make sure everyone sees the success when it
happens.

Do that over and over and you have a form of leadership.

"Visioncasting" and such can work too, but typically organizational alignment
is more organic and ad hoc than hierarchical and executive. There are
exceptions in highly structured groups, though.

~~~
refurb
Agree. This type of leadership is not manipulation. It’s getting real buy in
so people see the value in your plan.

------
papreclip
These are nice tips, but execution is more difficult than simply knowing them
for someone with social anxiety.

Suppose you read a guide that said "...during the next phase of the
conversation, you should start spinning a yo-yo around your head at the end of
its string. Spin it faster and faster, and gradually move closer to the other
person until the yo-yo is almost smacking their face. Don't worry, they won't
get angry..."

Now suppose this were actually true. It would still be really difficult to
overcome your gut discomfort and engage in such behavior. Someone with a
social disorder feels the same discomfort making eye conduct, taking their
hand away from their face, etc. as a normal person would dipping their finger
into a stranger's coffee or spitting on the floor

------
lucb1e
Does anyone else have this recaptcha logo visible at all times in the bottom
right? Wondering if I'm the only one whom it creeps out that a Google logo is
there the whole time for some reason. Makes me wonder what they derive from
new being on a social skills page, let alone how fast I read certain sections
or click through.

------
twoquestions
I fundamentally disagree with the thesis of the "Overcoming Fear and Social
Anxiety" page. For example, laugh at a dongle joke in front of a journalist or
some other influencer who's sneaky with a camera and a million followers, your
career is over, if not your life depending on how _nuts_ their followers are.

Nearly everyone you meet is out to get you, and a social misstep is a
_fabulous_ casus belli. We're all politicians navigating a zero-sum social
world, so you have to keep on your utmost guard at all times, attempting to
run what you say through what the one who hates you most in the world would
think of what you say, before you say it. True Fear is warranted.

I'll keep reading through the rest of it, I don't doubt it contains some
useful information, and the author of this can write pretty well, so kudos for
that.

~~~
gowld
Corrections: In that incident:

* the "influencer" was fired from their job because of their public troll behavior

* the laugher was not fired (and was publicly supported by their CEO

* the joke-teller was fired for _something_ shortly after the incident, but the CEO and the joke-teller won't say exactly what the justificaiton for the firing was.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681)

~~~
twoquestions
According to the link: > As a result of the picture she took I was let go from
my job today. Which sucks because I have 3 kids and I really liked that job.

Did he get his job back? I sure hope so, or a better one.

~~~
uwuhn
Yes, if you read some of the follow-up pieces (or summaries, one is from a
book), the victim mostly got their life back on track. No one knows their name
or really remembers anything about them. The aggressor completely derailed
both their own personal life and career and AFAIK never fully recovered. Bet
they're missing that Twilio money right now. But hey, they got to be internet
infamous for a bit.

------
jeremydeanlakey
I plan to use this with my son because I think he's going to struggle socially
as I did when I was a kid.

One thing about body language though - I think it's one thing to read about
body language but a very different thing to visually train your brain to
recognize it quickly.

I hope to one day make YouTube videos with lots of examples for this purpose.
In the meantime, the best book resource I've found for that is the book "What
Every Body is Saying", because it contains lots of example pictures.

------
hknd
This is actually really good and tangible advice - will defo support that
project.

"Support Your Friends" chapter is really good! I've making mistakes mentioned
there all the time.

------
slowhand09
My version. 1\. Be polite 2\. Ask questions. (Interesting people like to talk
about themselves) Elicit more than Yes/No answers. 3\. Answer questions put to
you with more than Yes/No answers. (Interesting people like to learn more
about interesting people)

~~~
BlameKaneda
| Interesting people like to talk about themselves

That, or they love hearing themselves talk.

~~~
groby_b
Of course they do. We _all_ like having an audience. The trick about good
conversations is to give that mutually.

------
johnpowell
I had a bit of a moment back when I was 17. I had what I thought was a really
good friend that I skateboarded with for 5 hours a day after school. We
partied too and hung and everything seemed great. We had a big social circle
in high school. I had lots of friends and could always find people to go have
grilled cheeses and coffee with at Larry and Kathty's. It was this dive place
that didn't care if we spent hours in there getting free coffee refills and
bad fries. But it is what we did after school was go there and hang out.
Twenty of us. I had a solid chunk of friends.

But then I got a blast of truth.

Shaun, the friend I hung out with a lot was having problems at home and had
just turned 18. I was also moving out so we looked at a few apartments. We
found a great one that was cheap and Shaun was hesitant. It was ours and we
could afford it but he hesitated.

A few days later someone told me he didn't want to live with me because, "I
was a tedious asshole and living with me would be miserable".

This was brutal. This is a guy that everyday we head out to the U.S Bank
underpark to skate. While good friends he thinks living with me would be
horrible. So then my mind went a bit wild and I figured that all my friends
thought the same.

So I changed. I am not a tedious asshole anymore. I will correct you if you
are really wrong. But I am not going to point out your rounding error so I can
feel superior.

------
furyoshonen
I need this guide, for "how to talk to nescient people". As I find myself
sighing too much out exacerbation and having a frustrating experience
communicating. Having simple rules for how to be respectful, especially to
elders, who need education in certain areas, I need badly.

------
abstractbarista
This is great! Wish I had it starting in elementary school. I've felt socially
retarded my whole life. It's definitely caused me to miss out on a lot of
normal social stuff. This was especially realized during high school. Only
after going to college did I start to feel like I was correctly decoding a
decent percentage of social indicators (and emitting more of my own to elicit
enjoyable interaction).

My advice to any nerdy boys like my past self would be to lay off the
computers somewhat and actually try to find a girlfriend and go to parties and
stuff. You'll be a lot better for it once you're older and working.

------
rosybox
I do have goals to change things about myself: being kinder, being more
patient, listening more, being more self aware and courteous, but I'm doing
that for me, to be a better person, not because I care about how people think
of me. My goal is to not add to other people's misery, it's not about
improving my social interactions.

Ultimately though, I just am who I am and if it doesn't work for people, I'm
not going to change in ways I don't want to, and I'm not going to follow a how
to list of how to interact with people, because I don't a give a shit. I'm
growing at my own pace.

------
csomar
Basic communication skills for Websites: Have all the contents in a single
page with a table content at the top; instead of me trying to figure out my
way through dozens of pages each with very little content.

------
kristofferR
Socially insecure people should just watch the s*it out of this channel:

[https://www.youtube.com/user/charismaoncommand/videos](https://www.youtube.com/user/charismaoncommand/videos)

I think visual examples can be way more impactful than what the linked dry
text guide could ever hope to be.

~~~
Afton
I'm someone who is just _never_ going to watch a video when someone says
"Watch THIS!" with no further context. It's too expensive to find out if your
advice is useful or not. So, while I know you are under no obligation, can you
give some flavor for why this video is a great and impactful video?

~~~
kristofferR
It's not a single video - it's a channel dedicated to helping its viewers
becoming more charismatic, a damn effective one at that.

Charismatic people are, of course, people who exude social skills and
confidence.

One of the most useful things to watch, for somebody without good social
skills may be the video clip breakdowns - where he breaks down social
interactions celebrities have and why people perceive it like they do. You
can't learn by example the same way through text.

This may be a good first video to watch:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjES8831wKc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjES8831wKc)

------
b0rsuk
This is very useful checklist for someone like me, with an alcoholic father
and a pretty awful family. I _know_ I have holes in my social skills, but
don't know where exactly. Asking about these things is deeply awkward, and
therapy is essentially unavailable in the city I live in.

------
myzreal
I was recently diagnosed to be on the highly-functional of "the spectrum" so I
think this link will be quite valuable, thanks for sharing! Now, if only I
could find something to learn to read emotions from human faces somehow, cause
apparently I can't do that very well.

------
Paianni
Am I the only one who is obsessed with performing my life as if I could be a
kind of prodigy someone might film a documentary around in many years time?

Socially it probably doesn't do me much good, but it's a side effect of being
overly self-conscious.

------
dddddaviddddd
This guide would benefit from some references to support the content. It reads
somewhat anecdotally but could be more rigorous.

------
ChrisMarshallNY
I have the whole "on the spectrum" thing going. It has been problematic for
me.

Got lots of atomic wedgies when I was a kid. I learned to ask my parents to
buy underwear with really stretchy bands...

For the last 39 years, I have been a participant in am organization that has
self-analysis and self-improvement at its core. I won't go into it any
further.

It has made the aspie almost invisible. The only sign is that I'm an obsessive
coder.

~~~
iooi
For the rest of us on the spectrum, which organization has helped you so much?
If you're not going to share, then what's the point of even commenting at all?

~~~
ChrisMarshallNY
There's a number of reasons that I'm not mentioning it. The biggest one, is
that it's not relevant to 90% of the folks around, but there are other
reasons.

The reason that I mention it, is because I have experience (that's the thing
you get with age, and mistakes), that bears out the basic premise of the post.

We're known for not playing well with others, but there's always hope, with
discipline and work.

Have a great holiday season (if you have one coming up)!

------
alexashka
You can read all that, or, just spend some time around functional adults.

These are problems born of children being stuck with other children and having
little exposure to a variety of adults.

We're much better at copying what others do, than internalizing rules spread
out over 20+ pages (why is this done?)

~~~
edjrage
In order to “just spend some time around functional adults”, you're expected
to be “functional” yourself. If you don't have social skills, it's way harder
to “just” do things around people, both because of your limitations and their
expectations.

------
andai
Is there a way to read the guide on one page, or as an ePub or PDF?

------
rpmisms
THANK YOU. Immensely helpful to people with ASD, such as myself.

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interhacker
This should be mandatory reading before leaving high school

------
elwell
Just in time for Clojure/conj...

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FaiderX
thank you for your advice, they were really helpful to me

------
allovernow
>In a nutshell, you inspire me when something that you share makes me want to
share something, too. Notice the word "want" in that definition. Inspiration
does not make your partner feel obligated to share. It makes them want to
share.

This is the part that I've been stuck at for years. And I imagine other
technical people hit this roadblock as well. Being able to talk with people
when you have little in the way of common interests is a skill in and of its
itself. Finding intimate relationships becomes particularly difficult when you
can't achieve the inspiration since most young women aren't exactly excited to
talk about code, or tech, or any of the things HN types tend to dedicate our
lives to.

I don't think any of these self help references can really solve this problem,
short of advising one to be "more open", which really means force interest in
uninteresting topics.

~~~
kempbellt
> since most young women aren't exactly excited to talk about code

This may reflect your subjective experience, but I have had a different
experience and would (kindly) give you the heads up that this is a borderline
sexist generalization. I've met women in the industry that are just as capable
as nerding out over new tech as I am - even if it hasn't been very common (in
my experience).

~~~
babadabada
I'm a young woman in tech. I am happy to confirm that

"since most young women aren't exactly excited to talk about code"

is in fact some sexist bullshit.

~~~
SkyBelow
How?

Most people don't want to talk code. Thus, given a demographic breakdown that
relates neither positively nor negatively with talking code, one can assume
the general pattern applies.

Most old people don't want to talk code.

Most young people don't want to talk code.

Most left handed people don't want to talk code.

None of these are discriminating. They are stating that a pattern true of the
general population also applies to a demographic partition of the population.

~~~
babadabada
How?

Because making broad assumptions about 50% of the population isn't a cool
thing to do. Especially given the excessive amount of nonsense women in tech
(and not in tech) have to deal with on a daily basis. Talk like this leads to
women feeling excluded from the tech community.

Also, specifically calling out "young women" as not being interested in tech
really makes a lot of assumptions. Generally, people will talk about most
topics - even if they aren't passionate about those topics themselves. Most
women I know will happily talk about tech stuff with me, so maybe your
approach is wrong.

~~~
SkyBelow
>Because making broad assumptions about 50% of the population isn't a cool
thing to do.

Is it that those assumptions are not cool to make about 100% of the population
either? Is it wrong of me to assume that the average person does not want to
talk about code?

Because if it isn't wrong to make the assumption about the average person, but
it is wrong to make it about some subset, then isn't that, at its very core,
treating that demographic different than the average?

>Generally, people will talk about most topics - even if they aren't
passionate about those topics themselves.

Yes, most people will engage in enough conversation to be polite. But there is
a significant difference between talking about something a person cares about
and them politely carrying on a conversation they aren't interested in. These
are not the same behavior and do not generally result in the same outcome .
And none of this has to do with gender as I notice this when talking with
friends of either gender.

~~~
bnjms
> Because if it isn't wrong to make the assumption about the average person,
> but it is wrong to make it about some subset, then isn't that, at its very
> core, treating that demographic different than the average?

No it is not in any meaningful way since the statement is true about both
subsets as well as the average person set. The claim is no meaningful
distinction is made by specifying the subset of women from all people. In fact
I've found every generalization I have ever made about women or men on second
thought has been true, and more meaningfully true, for all people (though it
may apply differently to men or women).

Anyway all the women I've met in tech are exceptional though I guess it's
caused by them being exceptions in a system that treats them as exceptions
amongst exceptions. Which is the real reason to minimize talking about women
as a subset since whatever causes anyone in a subset to identify with a group
is roughly the same cause as the majority in the group.

~~~
SkyBelow
>The claim is no meaningful distinction is made by specifying the subset of
women from all people.

Unless the person was making the claim because that was the subset they were
interested in dating, which is how I read the original statement. It was a
generalization of all people, but in this case they were only concerned with
how it applied to the subset of people they were interested in dating.

They could have avoided the whole problem by instead specifying "people I'm
interested in dating", but one has to wonder the cost of having to take that
level of care with one's words and the effect of this level of care being
discriminatory in where it has to be applied.

------
etagobla
I feel like this is anti-progress. My industry's success depends on me sitting
in my room coding and not having a gf.

~~~
Carpetsmoker
Some of the worst and most ineffective coworkers I've ever worked with were
intelligent, knowledgable, skilled, and severally lacking in the social skills
department. In some cases I've seen the more abrasive and toxic variants of
these people completely crush morale for the rest of the team or company, and
destroy any success. They were a net loss to the company.

Yeah, social skills matter. A lot. It's not about having a girlfriend, it's
about effective communication with the people you work with.

~~~
collyw
I am coming to the conclusion that social skills are probably more valuable
than coding skills. I don't think I am especially productive in my current job
due to a lot of context switching, but I think they like me for my attitude.

~~~
ShteiLoups
"Engineering is a team sport" \- me

You need to be able to work with others to produce things, unless you always
work alone. Social skills are a very important part of that.

~~~
username90
The ability to partition work into independent chunks is way more important
than social skills when you work as a software engineer with other software
engineers. Then they can work on their things and you can work on yours with
little need for further communication.

And don't come saying that divvying up technical tasks is a social skill, it
really isn't.

~~~
saagarjha
At some point your work needs to interact with other people's.

~~~
username90
If you don't understand what technical information they need to do their job
then you lack technical skills. If you don't understand what technical
information you need to request from others then you lack technical skills. If
you can't write them down or express them in words you lack technical skills.
If you can do those things then you can work with others and be productive.

You might not be fit for a career in sales but that is not what we are
discussing. The only major "social skill" you need is the ability to not
offend or inconvenience others. This part is not very hard and doesn't need
repeating as much as people do it.

