
Extra Virginity: The Sublime and Scandalous World of Olive Oil (2012) - imb
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/jan/13/extra-virginity-tom-mueller-review
======
gpjt
My parents retired to Italy a number of years ago, to a place with a hundred
or so olive trees in the garden, and each November some of us head over to
pick the olives (much to the amusement of the locals, who think we're crazy to
do agricultural work in our spare time) and take them to a nearby pressing
plant (where you can wander around and see the process to make sure your
harvest isn't being mixed up with other, lesser olives). The end result is
much spicier and harsher than anything I've ever bought. Personally I think
it's delicious, but I'm hardly an unbiased judge...

~~~
omegant
Once a year I get some 5 liters of cold pressed virgin organic olive oil. I
know it´s origin for sure because it comes from a private guy doing his own
stuff on a small cold press (he is not for quantity just for the best quality
for his family, it´s a hobby for him). I agree with you that you won´t find
anithing similar in a store: It´s more acid, spicier, deep green, clowdy (it´s
unfiltered) and very very tasty (it has some taste to the olives still in it).
It defenitely gives flavor to your salads or bread. You can not use it for
frying as it will give a distinct flavor, not that it´ll ruin the food but
it´ll taste to green olive oil.

Just to give you a sense of the difference, we are used to cook almost
exclusively with olive oil. We buy "virgin" olive oil from reputable brands
for the saladas and special dishes. The home made one is soo much better
compared to those.

I love it!

~~~
Florin_Andrei
It baffles me how people are not puzzled how the "extra virgin" olive oil they
use doesn't taste anything like olives. I mean, c'mon people, have you never
tasted olives? How do you expect the "unadulterated" extract to have none of
that flavor at all?

~~~
tptacek
It baffles me that people expect to buy "extra virgin olive oil" in canola-
oil- sized- jugs and expect it to have huge flavor; I get that it's
frustrating that the "extra virgin" label has been diluted to meaninglessness,
but really, just treat cheap extra virgin oil as if it was "pure olive oil"
(saute with it, for instance) and seek out _specific_ oils you really like.

Serious good olive oils all taste very different, so the whole idea of them
being interchangeably good is a bit weird.

------
tptacek
There is absolutely no way anybody who is serious about olive oil could
mistake a serious Tuscan or Greek olive oil for Bertolli, for exactly the
reason the article points out: serious olive oil has a grassy, peppery flavor
that fills your throat and sinuses; it's unmistakeable, like the difference
between a 3 Floyds Dreadnaught DIPA and Bud Light, and the reason Bertolli has
"corrupted" extra virgin olive oil is that American consumers won't routinely
buy it. I find the anecdote at the beginning of the article hard to reconcile
with the rest of the piece!

(Bertolli-style oil is a fine thing to have in your kitchen, too; you might
not want your mayonnaise to taste like strong Greek olive oil.)

~~~
thezilch
So, unless you are "serious" about oil, you have to take a shot in the dark?
I'm no professional cook, but I do have a passion and cook new dishes weekly.
I couldn't possibly know, from the store labels, what I can expect out of the
50 versions of EVO on the shelves. They're all EVO, unless I'm serious?
They're all from Italy or Greece, unless I'm serious? There's no grounds for
oils between Bertolli and "serious" oils that are better suited for salads or
dipping -- the "serious" EVOs? The problem exists for $8 to $50 bottles; how
can consumers possibly inform themselves that they are buying crap?

Luckily for me, I stumbled upon California Olive Ranch oil.

~~~
tptacek
Yes, if you're buying olive oil at the supermarket, it's going to be a crap
shoot. But you're going to know immediately that you've got bland oil (if it
tastes anything like other supermarket oils, it's bland; the difference isn't
subtle --- again, think about the difference between an IPA and a lager).

Again, a good way to handle this is to drop $35 on a bottle from some place
like Zingermans, and just use it as a benchmark.

~~~
TwiztidK
Zingerman's is like oil overload. Last time I was there I couldn't even dream
about picking a single one out of their entire stock. I just wish there were a
way to reliably find reasonably priced, quality oil since I can't afford to
spend anywhere near $35/bottle on olive oil more than once or twice.

~~~
tptacek
That's true, but the good thing about them is that they don't stock any crappy
oil; you can pick at random.

------
colanderman
Does anyone have any tips for finding quality olive oil?

The only way I've had success is to buy inexpensive single-source stuff, even
if it's inexpensive and non-Italian. Best olive oils I've had were single-
sourced from Spain; $2 from a discount store. Maybe no-one wants to fake non-
Italian oil?

~~~
elorant
Best olive oil is Greek. Italian or Spanish ones are nowhere near the quality
of Greek. In Greece more than 80% of total production is extra virgin while in
Italy the percentage is less than 40% and in Spain 20%. Italians buy bulk
olive oil from Greece and they mix it with their own oils to raise the
quality. There are small brands that offer high quality extra virgin oil and I
guess you could look some of them at your local super market or grocery store.
If you want top quality you should look for small privately owned brands
rather than big companies, at least for Greek oil. A few well known and
trusted producers are Gaea [1], Papadimitriou [2], WEP [3], Eleia [4], Moria
Elea Deluce [5], Maleas [6].

[1] [http://www.gaea.gr/](http://www.gaea.gr/), [2]
[http://www.papadim.com/en/products/extra-virgin-olive-
oil/](http://www.papadim.com/en/products/extra-virgin-olive-oil/), [3]
[http://www.fiveoliveoil.com/five-olive-oil-from-
greece/](http://www.fiveoliveoil.com/five-olive-oil-from-greece/), [4]
[http://www.eleia.gr/index_en.html](http://www.eleia.gr/index_en.html), [5]
[http://www.moriaelea.com/?page_id=42](http://www.moriaelea.com/?page_id=42),
[6] [http://www.maleasoliveoil.gr/en/olive-
oil](http://www.maleasoliveoil.gr/en/olive-oil).

~~~
_delirium
Seconding this. It also tastes somewhat different, which is a matter of
preference admittedly. I personally love the typical flavor of oil from
Kalamata olives, which makes up a large part of the Greek-labeled production
(i.e. bottled as Greek olive oil, rather than exported for blending).

Greek marketing and distribution has been poor, however, and very slowly
improving. The traditional place to buy it in the U.S. has been in 5-liter
tins at Mediterranean grocery stores catering to immigrants (depending on the
region, these might be "Greek", "Lebanese", "Turkish", or "Arab"
supermarkets). These are a great deal, especially if you cook with it, but off
the radar of most regular shoppers. Lately I have been seeing it in smaller
bottles in normal grocery stores more often. Trader Joe's now has a house
brand of 100% Greek Kalamata olive oil, which they buy in bulk and bottle, and
is very good for the price.

This is one thing the Italians got way out front of the Greeks on. Both
Italians _and_ Greeks at home will not typically buy small glass bottles of
olive oil; the 5-L tin is the typical container. Partly that's because it's
used in cooking, not just to sprinkle on salads or pasta. Especially in Greece
and southern Italy, it's the main cooking fat, since butter, lard, canola oil,
sunflower-seed oil, etc. are not widely used. But Italians realized that
selling smaller bottles to the boutique export market was a good business,
while Greeks only realized later that there was this market for premium-priced
oil in a 500-mL bottle, aimed at people who use it for smaller-volume things
(i.e. not for cooking imam baildi or French fries).

It does last a long time, though, so if you want a good deal, find your local
Mediterranean market and pick up a tin, then transfer portions to a more
convenient bottle with a funnel. Kept in a cool, dark place, you should get
several years of shelf life.

edit: Everywhere I said 5-L above, substitute 3-L. Misremembered the size. The
tins are rectangular and look like this:
[http://www.thegoodfoodnetwork.com/shop/images/26713/Iliada-p...](http://www.thegoodfoodnetwork.com/shop/images/26713/Iliada-
pdo-kalamata-extra-virgin-olive-oil.jpg)

~~~
riquito
Nobody that I know buys 5-liter tins of oil (I'm italian) and I wouldn't even
know where to buy them. The most common format is 1 liter, followed by 0.75

~~~
_delirium
Apparently I have bad memory, because 3-L is what I was thinking of, not 5-L.
I'm not Italian myself, but my Italian landlord brings these kinds of things
(not the same brand, but same format) regularly:
[http://www.colavita.com/store/images/products/EV_Oils/Med-
Ti...](http://www.colavita.com/store/images/products/EV_Oils/Med-Tin.jpg)

Most households in Greece will have something like that, and they're easy to
find in any country if you go to a Turkish, Greek, or Arab supermarket. I
could be wrong about Italy.

~~~
rafcavallaro
Don't confuse olive oil for cooking (commonly purchased in 3 liter tins) with
extra virgin olive oil. This article is about extra virgin olive oil. EVOO is
usually consumed raw, unheated, with bread, cheese, on salads - it would
completely defeat the purpose of the EVOO production technique which is one of
low temperture, purely mechanical extraction, to heat EVOO to high
temperatures as is commonly done with lower grades of olive oil.

~~~
_delirium
Just checked my 3-L tins to be sure, and they're extra-virgin also. The
problem with the lower grades is that they're extracted with chemical means
(hexane solvents) and generally worse for any usage. The modest price savings
isn't really worth it, since better stuff is affordably priced anyway.

It varies by country, but _heating_ doesn't necessarily exclude an oil from
"extra-virgin olive oil"; the separate "cold-pressed" label covers that.

------
jseliger
For more on this, see the _New Yorker 's_ 2007 article "Slippery Business: The
trade in adulterated olive oil" at
[http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/08/13/070813fa_fact_...](http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/08/13/070813fa_fact_mueller).

I'm surprised "they" haven't worked to further regulate the field; apparently
one problem is that developing chemical tests to reliably discern real from
fake olive oil is very difficult.

~~~
lostlogin
Similar problems apply in other markets too (as I'm sure you are aware). Fake
Manuka honey is one that causes locals here some grief.
[http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8928858/Manuka-
hone...](http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8928858/Manuka-honey-fall-
fouls-of-overseas-tests)

------
eksith
I use olive oil regularly in my cooking and now, I don't know what to think.

I'm curious why the original article wasn't the one submitted (though it's
inserted at the bottom of that entry).

[http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/jan/13/extra-
virginity-...](http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/jan/13/extra-virginity-
tom-mueller-review)

~~~
tptacek
If you're cooking with it, it doesn't much matter. Heat very rapidly destroys
the flavor of good olive oil.

Personally: stories like this should read as _good_ news; they mean you have a
lot to gain for dorking around with new oils.

~~~
ballard
Definitely. There's a handy table on
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_point](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_point)
I'm thinking about the table color-coded smoke pt and a space for notes. A bit
"paint by number", but there's plenty of other variables.

~~~
tptacek
Smoke point is another good thing to know about (you can saute in olive oil
but probably don't want to double-fry french fries in it) but you'll degrade
the flavor of a good Greek olive oil way before you hit 160c.

------
zwieback
UC Davis does olive oil testing a little more systematically:

[http://olivecenter.ucdavis.edu/services/services](http://olivecenter.ucdavis.edu/services/services)

~~~
tptacek
UCDavis does a lot of cool food science stuff.

------
bobf
I found my favorite olive oil, Alfar La Maja, in a small shop in San
Sebastian, Spain. It comes from Mendavia, Spain, which is part of the Navarra
region and is well known for its' olive production. At the time I bought it I
had no idea it would be the best olive oil I've ever had, but I had two things
working in my favor: 1) San Sebastian's residents and tourists are incredibly
serious about food, 2) it was fresh, single source, small production, local,
etc.

Later, I looked it up online, and found this gem -- according to the NY Olive
Oil competition, "Alfar La Maja is one of the world's best extra virgin olive
oils for 2013."

------
tootie
Fairway in the NY area has an olive oil bar with about dozen varieties and
bread for dipping. Most are domestic and labelled as such. The nuance in
flavor is easily detectable. I find most supermarket brands taste about the
same. The olive taste is so distinct you'd never confuse it for canola, corn
or anything else.

~~~
enjo
There's a fantastic olive oil store in Downtown Denver as well.

------
celebdor
There are many kinds of olive varieties, some of them growing in the span of
one or two towns. Saying it is supposed to taste like this or like that
without saying from which kind of olives it was made sounds kind of
nonsensical.

Another matter is that of honesty. Italy is known to export more olive oil
than it produces and it is buying production from quite a lot of towns in my
country and then mixing it and packaging it with oils from other places.

If you want good olive oil, try to find small productions, ensure that it was
stored in the dark if possible and taste it first (dipping bread on the oil
not just sprinkling, it should be quite soaked). Supermarket olive oil of any
price is only suitable for frying, that much is known.

~~~
mynameishere
_Supermarket olive oil of any price is only suitable for frying_

Yeah, yeah.

 _and both the [eminent] foodies gave a thumbs-up to Unilever 's much-derided
Bertolli brand._

Same as with wine. It's just a fruit and the variations from its production
simply aren't as great as people like to think. Anyway, the best fat comes
from bacon.

~~~
celebdor
I'm just saying how we do it in my oil producing town. The oil you get from
your production or from a town producer in the local mill is for salads,
toasts, etc. Oil bought in packs of 3-5l in the supermarket (extra-virgin
brands) is what we use for frying.

It is so much like that, that now that I live abroad I'm flying with 8l packs
of my town's oil at least twice a year.

------
croisillon
That the rougher taste is the most original reminds me of that old story I
found here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3201540](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3201540)

------
nullc
My first experience with proper olive oil was ordering some from
[http://www.amphoranueva.com/](http://www.amphoranueva.com/) after one of
their coratina oils was suggested by someone on some forum who'd done chemical
assaying on a number of oils looking for polyphenol content, as relevant to
some moderately supported study results on positive health outcomes.

I couldn't have been happier with the result... and even if you use a fair
amount of oil it still takes a while to go through 750ml of the stuff, so that
fact that it's $18/bottle doesn't break the bank. (and it keeps well if kept
isolated from air and light) Er, well, I mean used properly: raw in food, not
for cooking. You shouldn't heat good evo as its smoke point is lower than
random supermarket mystery olive oil, and heating it removes most of the
flavor anyways.

Opinions may differ though, I could certainly see some people really disliking
the grassy acidic flavor of strong EVO.

------
zachwill
Really interesting article, OP. I love coming across these type of links on HN
— just seems like it happens less often these days.

------
wahnfrieden
Anyone know a good olive oil obtainable in NYC?

(I'd rather not pay huge shipping fees for some of the other things listed
here.)

~~~
bradleyjg
If you are okay with Greek olive oil (and you probably should be) go over to
Astoria and visit one of the Greek supermarkets.

E.g.
[http://www.titanfoods.net/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store...](http://www.titanfoods.net/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=TF)

Actual Italian immigrants are scare on the ground these days, so I'm not
convinced you'd see anything particularly unique in e.g. the Arthur Avenue
section of the Bronx. But I could be wrong.

------
powertower
Personally, I only use grapeseed oil. I've tried olive, it's too heavy. Tried
canola, it's okay. But grapeseed is amazing. It has no particular flavor, you
could drink it and not become sick from the heavy load that typical oils will
give you, etc.

~~~
tptacek
I cook in grapeseed, but use olive oil for every raw application.

------
ballard
I thought everybody knew this already. Store-bought (TJ, WF, etc.) doesn't
look, taste and isn't priced anything like the real thing. If you didn't see
it go in the bottle yourself, it probably has cheaper oils mixed in. Caveat
emptor.

------
r0s
Here's a plug for my local olive oil producer:
[http://www.bvranch.com/](http://www.bvranch.com/)

Quality conscious and low on bullshit.

------
pyrocat
I use lemon pressed olive oil on almost all my cooking now and it's delicious.

~~~
bobf
Round Pond Estate has some wonderful olive oil with citrus aromatics,
including one with Meyer lemon that you would probably love. If you're in the
SF area, they also do tours of their winery + olive oil press/facilities.

~~~
dunham
Their red wine vinegars are worth a try too. (Honestly, it's the only non-
mass-market red wine vinegar I've tried, but I'm really happy with it.)

------
clumsysmurf
Many people buy into the supposed health benefits on olive oil, which probably
boils down to its phenolic content. However, this depends on many things and
drops over time.

The end of this article has some tips to ensure getting the best oil.

[http://news.discovery.com/earth/plants/olive-oil-health-
bene...](http://news.discovery.com/earth/plants/olive-oil-health-
benefits-1307104.htm)

~~~
vixen99
Hardly 'supposed'. There are plenty of peer-reviewed studies indicating the
benefits of olive oil.

~~~
andrewl
Good olive oils contain an anti-inflammatory substance called oleocanthal,
which is similar to ibuprofen. It's been suggested that it's part of what
makes the Mediterranean diet so healthful:

[http://www.monell.org/news/news_releases/olive_oil_contains_...](http://www.monell.org/news/news_releases/olive_oil_contains_natural_anti_inflammatory_agent)

