

Squink Lets You Print a Circuit Board for the Price of a Cup of Coffee - keithba
http://techcrunch.com/2014/07/14/squink-lets-you-print-a-circuit-board-for-the-price-of-a-cup-of-coffee/

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jdietrich
I really don't want to be negative, but I also really don't see the point.

Cheaply and quickly producing basic single-sided PCBs really isn't hard.
Photochemical etching can be done with $100 worth of equipment, a couple of
feet of bench space and a little practice. Using a $3500 machine to produce
poorer quality boards doesn't make much sense to me. Likewise, the pick &
place functionality just isn't very useful in producing prototypes - the setup
time will be equal to or greater than placing the components by hand with
tweezers.

There are a swathe of recent projects based on conductive ink, but I don't
think that they are solving a real problem. I use PCB fabrication services
because I need soldermask and through-hole plating, not because photoetch is
particularly inconvenient. Someone downthread discusses the problem of
printing resolution and fine-pitch parts, but that's really a secondary issue.
Without soldermask, it is very difficult to get good joints without bridging
on fine-pitch ICs; Without plated vias, it is extremely difficult to route
traces for even a relatively simple SMD IC, let alone a BGA.

The boards shown in their publicity materials are trivial and would be easily
prototyped using veroboard. I believe that represents the limit of their
technology. I can just about see a niche for their product in education, but
even that is quite tenuous; The throughput of this machine is likely to be a
major bottleneck in a classroom setting versus etching 30 boards on the same
panel. I learned to etch PCBs in secondary school, and the process is now much
cleaner and safer thanks to modern etchants. Three bubble tanks and a UV box
cost considerably less than $3500 and are far more reliable than any CNC
machine.

If photochemical etching isn't an option for some reason, you can buy a basic
CNC router for far less than $3500, which can produce good basic PCBs while
also taking on a vast range of other tasks.

Frankly, the whole effort smacks of "3D printing" hype. There seems to be a
generation of designers who have a nozzle-shaped hammer and see everything as
an additively-manufactured nail. There are some compelling applications for
additive manufacturing, but it is by no means a silver bullet.

~~~
Osmium
I can't speak for this specific solution, but veroboard drives me (personally)
bonkers and it's not enough of a hobby for me to justify investing in
photochemical etchers. Being able to design a project on a computer, and get a
PCB for a few dollars, would be great. I'd definitely play around with
electronics projects a lot more if I could do more prototyping on a computer.

The other thing that would be great is something like a Shapeways for PCBs.
People could upload their own projects, then they print the PCB for you (and
even ship you a bag of components), for you to build yourself.

~~~
jdietrich
>The other thing that would be great is something like a Shapeways for PCBs.

The service already exists. Numerous companies will produce small quantities
(>5) of a PCB design from a Gerber file at a reasonable price and many will
also do assembly. Prices vary depending on quantity and lead time; Amongst the
cheapest are Itead, who offer ten 5x5cm PCBs (two-layer, with soldermask and
silkscreen) for $14 shipped.

The main reason to etch your own boards is lead time, as it can take a week or
two (plus shipping from China). European and American PCB houses can turn
around boards in as little as 24 hours, but at much greater cost.

[http://imall.iteadstudio.com/open-pcb/pcb-
prototyping.html](http://imall.iteadstudio.com/open-pcb/pcb-prototyping.html)

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noonespecial
_" The circuit board is designed through a web-based portal usable only with
Squink plugged in."_

Whoa there, cowboy. Its a kickstarter that not only may or may not produce a
working machine, but even if it does, I have to depend on their perpetual
existence just to use said machine? I... have trust issues.

~~~
shaunol
Can anyone confirm whether this is a portal 'in the cloud' or if it's simply a
web server hosted on the Squink itself?

Very cool project, I wonder if future iterations by competitors will drive the
cost down.

~~~
Bloub
Squink has a built-in web server. The goal is to ultimately also connect it to
a portal in the cloud.

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mik3y
Home-printed (not etched) PCBs? This is awesome. Sure, the traces look thick
as hell and you're obviously limited to 1-2 layers, but it's what progress
looks like.

Just as the barrier for entry has come down for software -- in the form of
better tools, frameworks, and languages -- so too is it coming down for
hardware in the form of easier, more accessible and better-quality
prototyping. The specialist in me worries (occasionally), but what a wonderful
moment of innovation we live in..

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tzs
This is way more interesting than the title makes it sound. From the title, I
expected something that just made a PCB, and then you would have to place the
components on it and attach them.

What they are proposing will make the PCB, then put conductive glue at the
places where the component leads are supposed to attach, and then pick the
components from a tray, rotate and aline them, and place them on the glue.

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cottonseed
There was a Kickstarter that did exactly this a while back:

[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1597902824/agic-
print-p...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1597902824/agic-print-
printing-circuit-boards-with-home-print)

I guess they're supposed to start shipping in a couple weeks (Aug 1).

~~~
MrBuddyCasino
Nice, I like that it uses commodity printer hardware - inkjets have a really
high resolution nowadays, and they claim that 0.4 mm BGAs still work, which is
usually out of reach for the typical DYer and prototype services like OSH
Park. Also, they specify the resistance that can be achieved, something I
sorely missed from this Kickstarter.

Only downside is that the ink price seems quite high - 100$ for a bottle that
can print 50-100 sheets.

Also, manual pick & place is probably messy.

Still, at $2,499 early birg price, Squink is only affordable for hacker spaces
and the like, while the AgIC Print DIY kit sells for $299. Exciting times!

~~~
cottonseed
> Exciting times!

Agreed!

Yeah, the Squink Kickstarter is sorely lacking in information. They don't give
trace width and spacing specs, etc.

I also like that AgIC uses off the shelf printer hardware and can manage high
resolution. However, I'm skeptical you can do much more than OSHPark with
0.4mm BGAs. The challenge with OSHPark design rules is the breakout, and here
you have one (maybe two?) layers, so again, you can't manage much of a ball
grid.

Although these projects are exciting, I can't seem them replacing cheap PCB
fabs + reflow oven for my own prototyping projects. So then question becomes,
how do you take the next step? Maybe you can print on FR-4 or pre-preg, use
optical alignment to handle registration and glue multiple layers together
with conductive glue to achieve multi-layer boards. For ground planes, maybe
you choose some layers pre-clad with copper. I'm not sure what to do about
vias. You could think about using layers with a selection of various pre-made
vias, but again, it is hard to see how that would work with large BGAs. So you
have to include a drill and find some way to plug/fill the vias.

~~~
MrBuddyCasino
I agree, multi-layer gluing and pre-made ground planes would probably work.
The big issue is how to connect the layers, I don't see how to do vias either.

Maybe there will be a symbiosis of this and 3d printer, where the single pcb
layers will be printed, using conductive material and non-conductive filler.

But however this is going to turn out, we are witnessing the birth of home
electronics manufacturing. This will be significant, at least as much as the
availability of high-quality consumer paper printers in the 80s/90s.

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pmorici
This isn't just a PCB printer it also does pick and place and solders
component with conductive glue! It's essentially an entire SMT assembly line
on your desktop. Wow, this is cool.

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pkaye
Lots of issues will need to be worked out for this to be viable. 4 layers
minimum (ground, power, 2 routing planes). High pitch TSOP and BGA need tight
pitches and traces. The width of traces and spacing and dielectric material
need tight tolerances for impedance control for signal integrity.

But they are not asking for much of an investment so it may be worthwhile to
try it out.

~~~
cushychicken
That's assuming a level of complexity this doesn't appear to be shooting for.
Sure, you probably couldn't build an RPi or BBB with this guy, but it seems
that they're targeting a lower end shop trying to spin a few iterations of a
low-cost IoT device before sending it out to a fab house. The level of
complexity needed for that hardware isn't huge.

~~~
TylerE
I could also see e.g. the guys handbuilding guitar effects going nuts over
something like this.

~~~
cushychicken
Yes! That would be great. So much more consistent than handsolder.

------
o0-0o
Squink is on Kickstarter:

[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/botfactory/squink-
the-p...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/botfactory/squink-the-personal-
electronic-circuit-factory)

------
VLM
Something to think about is a miniboard (a possibly trademarked cheap small
board supplier of great reliability, fast speed, and excellent reputation)
sells boards for $17 each shipped the next business day, so printing 250
boards yourself costs 3500 + 250*2= $4000 vs $4250 for professionally made
boards. Hmm I donno.

250 boards is a lot of work. I don't think "most" hobbyists are into the hobby
that long. For the sake of argument, we'll assume I've ordered that many PCBs
as a hobbyist since 1980. How many computers from 1980 are still supported
with software updates etc? I could eventually make 250 PCBs in a couple
decades, but whats the realistic "clock time" lifespan of this thing?

Note that if you're going into serious production rather than the prototype
market, you can get a hundred small boards much cheaper than $17 a piece.

Another interesting thing to think about is this is a printer... you need a
substrate. First thing I thought of it using polished flat marble tiles from
home depot. So there are other costs.

Also its an ink emitter. Much like ink jet printers which could theoretically
print at 5 cents per page IF you use the ink up within 3 months of opening,
reality is you try to print a report, realize your cartridge is dead / dried
out, install a new $50 cartridge, print your report, and repeat six months
later. So ink jets actually cost like $10 per page as a real world on the
ground cost.

Given the above, its quite possible you could pay $50 for a cartridge and a
board every six months in a couple hours, plus $3500 capital cost, or pay
maybe $40 for a pro shop to overnight airmail a prototype PCB to you every six
months.

The TLDR is the financials only work over an extremely narrow range of
production rates under very peculiar requirements.

Its interesting in the marketplace there are no serious efforts at a full kit
for traditional hands on mfgr. There are numerous partial kits that don't
quite contain everything.

You need a B/W laser printer that is stably calibrated to precise dimensions
thats really good at transparencies, a box of transparencies, whatever gear
you use to verify calibration (A machinists $5 class 1-2-3 block and some
software?). A UV box (basically a giant eprom eraser). Some photo trays and
etchants and other chemicals.

Some "maker" cultural groups have an intense aversion to hands on, however
weird that sounds, and will pay anything or put up with anything, to avoid
using their hands, and that's probably the ideal customer for this product
given that you can get better results cheaper and faster if you use a
traditional PCB process.

There is probably a market for someone to sell a complete, vetted, verified
photosensitive PCB etching kit.

------
bravo22
Why don't I just grab a conductive pen and draw my circuit??

~~~
InclinedPlane
You can't just draw a _printed_ circuit board, it's like in the name and
stuff.

------
tzs
I'm not sure the price of a cup of coffee is a good indication of something
being inexpensive nowadays: Sexagintuple Vanilla Bean Mocha Frappuccino, $55
[1].

[1] [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2641608/Is-worlds-
ex...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2641608/Is-worlds-expensive-
Starbucks-coffee-Sexagintuple-Vanilla-Bean-Mocha-Frappuccino-set-55.html)

~~~
freehunter
I'm not sure picking the world's most expensive cup of coffee is a
representative sample of what a cup of coffee costs.

~~~
ars
How much does a representative sample of a cup of coffee cost?

The coffee I drink costs about $0.10 a cup.

~~~
edoceo
In Seattle, a ~350ml cafe-latte (~310ml milk, 40ml coffee) is around $3.50
(can be $4.50 downtown, $5.50 at airport) - this commonly called the 'Double
Tall Latte' \- our local news media uses it as a cost comparison for dang near
everything.

~~~
ars
I never understood why people spend so much when you can make at home for so
much less. (Apparently 1/10 to 1/50th of the cost?!?)

Do people really consider a cup of coffee cheap? It seems expensive enough to
be considered an occasional treat, not a daily purchase.

~~~
UweSchmidt
It's definitively a small luxury item, but can't really argue with anyone's
spending habits.

More relevant, "cups of coffee" is not a good unit of measurement and can be
misleading. Just say the number and trust that people can cope.

Other offenders: Measuring distance in "cars lined up from here to the moon",
expressing data in "Libraries of Congress", or expressing cost in $/day
instead of $/month or $/year.

