
Ask HN: Does the programming language actually matter? - suls
As much as I would love to use Haskell professionally, I always wondered if teams&#x2F;projects using Haskell don&#x27;t also struggle with all the sociology involved in developing software ..<p>Sure, being able to use Applicative reduces lots of code duplication, brings in better clarity and all .. but what if the product owner still remains a jerk without a vision?<p>In all the teams I have been so far, I can honestly say that the _language_ itself was never _the_ problem. It was always a combination of communication, skill or product vision.<p>The only thing I can imagine is that by choosing Haskell you tend to get better skilled developers - so only communication and product vision remain that could ruin your project&#x2F;product.<p>Any thoughts?
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kstenerud
You'll get good and bad developers no matter what language you program in.
Your career is more dependent upon whether you can work with people who are
difficult to work with or not, rather than your skill in technology X.

Technologies change; people don't. If you want to succeed, treat fixing your
people problems as higher priority.

And don't fall into the trap of the "people who use technology X are better
people" line of thinking.

Words from a 20 year veteran of the industry.

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suls
> Technologies change; people don't. If you want to succeed, treat fixing your
> people problems as higher priority.

1/ Isn't this statment contradicting itself? How can you fix people problems
if they don't change? Or maybe you "replacing" rather than fixing?

2/ What tools or methods have you experienced in those 20 years? Were any of
them suitable for a bottom-up approach?

~~~
kstenerud
1/ Probably a better description would be "human nature". There are certain
ways people tend to work and interact, and you discover those as you go along
in life, as well as ways to manage them.

2/ Mostly it involves facilitating self-actualization in those you're
managing. People want to feel like they are being heard, and are making a
useful contribution. There are exceptions, of course, but I'm talking about
the norms. Some people have bad habits that need to be broken. Others are
fearful and need encouragement. Others are thin-skinned and need more
experience working with teams. People go through life challenges, crises,
epiphanies... Even if you're not a manager, it behooves you to learn humanity
and how it works. It's one of the few things in the technology sector that
doesn't change.

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MalcolmDiggs
It matters, but like you said: it matters a whole lot less than a lot of other
factors.

That is to say: If you've got a strong vision, the right team, the right
backers, the right product-market-fit, etc and your engineers are sitting
around trying to figure out how to make the product better/faster/more-
reliable, then maybe start looking at the language you chose. But honestly an
underperforming language is a problem that most startups never have the good-
fortune of having to legitimately worry about.

~~~
sheepmullet
It matters both a lot more, and a lot less, for startups (than traditional
companies).

More: a startup doesn't have the resources to just throw bodies at a problem,
or have a dedicated dev or two working on a non-core product. Picking the
wrong language + ecosystem can ruin a project.

Less: Startups are make or break. If you break then who cares about the long
term cost of code maintainance? If you make it then you can easily absorb the
long term costs. E.g. If choosing php in the early days cost Facebook an extra
100 man-years worth of effort in the long term its a minor blip. 100 man-years
is nothing to a company the size of Facebook.

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sheepmullet
It has a large impact on long term productivity and cost. As a general rule a
10kloc project is much easier and cheaper to maintain than a 100kloc project
and you can get these kinds of improvements by choosing the right language.

Its not the most important decision, but it matters.

