
Kinect for Windows SDK (Silverlight Required) - th0ma5
http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/projects/kinectsdk/
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cjoh
This is unreal-- from the FAQ:

Q:I know that other drivers and development software for Kinect are available
on the Web. Can I use the Kinect sensor device with these other drivers or
software instead of the SDK Beta?

A: No. Use of the Kinect sensor device is subject to its own warranty and
software license agreement that allow you to use it solely in connection with
an Xbox 360 or Xbox 360 S console. Only Microsoft can grant you the additional
rights that you need to use the Kinect sensor device with a personal computer.
Microsoft grants these additional rights in the SDK Beta license, but only for
uses of the Kinect sensor device in connection with the SDK Beta. If you use
the Kinect sensor with a platform other than Xbox 360, Xbox 360 S, or Windows
(with the SDK Beta), you void the warranty you received when you purchased the
Kinect sensor device.

~~~
sliverstorm
Can't you just be happy for a minute that they even released a public SDK?

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AdamTReineke
The terms on the beta are pretty restrictive. It's better than nothing, but
basically it's non-profit, educational stuff only. A little discouraging to
start working with, especially when I couldn't find any concrete info about
future commercial SDK.

~~~
sliverstorm
It's a beta for something they never even meant to make a pre-alpha of. They
probably just don't want to be held responsible when a commercial user makes a
fit over lack of support for bugs he found in _beta software_

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iqster
From the demos shown on Channel 9, it seems the SDK comes with skeletal
tracking. This would be big!!

Edit: I just looked at the Skeletal viewer sample. Looks like they do have
skeleton tracking in the SDK. Woot!

Edit 2: They also have sound localization from the Kinect's microphones!!

I'm not sure about others, but I I did not expect either features to be in the
initial SDK. This might explain why it took them so long (they said it would
be released in Spring). They seem to have gone all-out!

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DrJ
OpenNI comes with skeleton tracking as well!

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TomOfTTB
Kinect for Windows is, IMHO, Microsoft's only chance of really getting back in
the game. It is an Apple level sea change if they can capitalize on it.

I mean lets be real here. Touch is a great way to interact with computing
devices but it screws up the screen. Until someone invents a smudge proof
surface that will always be the case. Beyond that usability studies show touch
screens on PCs just don't work. People's shoulders start to hurt very quickly.

Kinect solves that. It's touch without touching. It can be done without having
to reach over the keyboard. It IS the future if Microsoft can capitalize on
it.

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6ren
Remember that apple R&D, that found that mousing was quicker than keyboarding
(because its low cognitive load doesn't interrupt your train of thought - it
just seems quicker because you have amnesia when immersed in working out the
right keys... [ _not applicable to expert fingers_ ])?

Perhaps touching the screen _instead of acquiring the mouse_ would be quicker
and even lower cognitive load. This wouldn't be for every interaction, but as
an adjunct to the keyboard - as the mouse is.

Not sure if true though - my mouse is at the same elevation as the keyboard,
whereas the screen requires raising a hand about a foot. The cognitive load is
lower though - people often instinctively touch the screen (if they haven't
been screen-trained), especially when looking at someone else's screen.
Perhaps that's a key? Collaborative use: a mouse is per person, but several
can look and touch a screen.

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FrojoS
Do you have a link to that Apple study? I find that very exciting and never
heard about it before. Though it would mean, that me and many other geeks are
plain wrong about their preferred input method.

You might be interested in _DiamondTouch_ [1] which allows multiple users on
one touch table. I tried it out at a presentation at the MediaLab in Nov 2010.
The trick, if I remember correct, is that the user sits on a special chair.
The chair, then detects an electric connection between the user and the table.

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DiamondTouch>

~~~
jamesbkel
I believe he's referring to this:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2657135>

~~~
6ren
Yes, that's it, thanks. For the GP, please note I said: _[not applicable to
expert fingers]_

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qdot76367
Fun facts from the Kinect SDK FAQ, at [http://research.microsoft.com/en-
us/um/redmond/projects/kine...](http://research.microsoft.com/en-
us/um/redmond/projects/kinectsdk/faq.aspx)

\- You can't copy the runtimes with your application. Everyone has to download
the SDK

\- All non SDK software (OpenKinect, OpenNI + OK, etc...) is now warrenty
voiding

\- Assume all software you see may be violating the SDK license

"Built to be open". Yup.

~~~
kenjackson
A couple of points:

1) For virtually every MS SDK I can think of, everyone has to download it. I
can't think of any where this isn't the case, although I wouldn't be surprised
if there was a couple. That's standard MS practice.

2) I think those things always voided the warranty. In general, I think
_hacks_ , whether on Android, iPhone, Wii, Roombas, Dysons, or whatever will
void the warranty.

~~~
ladyada
2) the open kinect libraries do not in any way modify the kinect hardware,
firmware or otherwise. there is no 'jailbreaking' involved here. its a -usb
driver-!

~~~
kenjackson
Given that the device potentially draws power based in part on the driver, I
think its reasonable. It's unlikely to cause any problem, but warranties are
about expected use -- not to cover any use including those of hackers. They're
NOT prohibiting hackers from using it, but if you brick it, then its yours to
unbrick. That seems very fair.

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iamelgringo
Word on the street says that drivers for Kinect are going to ship with Windows
8.

I don't think that the new Metro UI shipping in Windows 8 is just about touch,
I also suspect that the new interface is going to be gesture sensitive as
well.

Windows 8 is looking very shiny.

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reustle
I have heard this is the case from a few reputable internal sources. Windows 8
<3s Kinect

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peregrine
I don't understand why Microsoft couldn't have just endorsed OpenNI, fixed the
drivers, created some Visual Studio/.net integration and been done with it.
Would have spent half as much time in development, cost them less and given
them the same exact product. And anyone, even without a Windows Machine or
Visual Studio could have worked on this.

I definitely answered my own question.

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melvinram
The missing pieces of Minority Report are coming together.

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artmageddon
If you couple this technology with Playstation 9, then yes :)

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dstein
I'd love to try this, but the all-Microsoft stack required to use this SDK is
a huge barrier to entry. I use a Mac, I don't know C#, Silverlight, Visual
studio etc. In order to use this SDK I need to buy into MS tech on many
levels. A browser plugin with a JavaScript API (even if IE only), would be
very compelling and a lot more accessible.

~~~
bretthopper
Yeah that would be like Apple requiring Mac hardware, OS X, Xcode, and
Objective-C to do iOS development...

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dstein
I have the same criticism there too. I prefer multi-platform IDE's.

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recoiledsnake
At least a PC can be got for $300 to $500, unlike a Mac starting at $699.

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billybob
...neither of which is really the point. Even if they both gave you free
hardware, you've got to learn their technology stack just to try it out.
Unlike, say, web development, where a few seconds of text editing gives you a
"hello world" that will work on any platform.

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random42
How is that not the point? For a for-profit business, to make a sale
_eventually_ , is the major point.

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nitrogen
I bought the Kinect. I'll use it as I see fit. Is that not a sale?

The previous poster's point was that the open source software allows one to
use the Kinect in a cross-platform, standards-compliant setting. Microsoft's
coming out with something half as featureful, with serious platform
restrictions. Their SDK's only advantages are "officialness" and a more
complete audio API.

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Shenglong
I remember my friend coded a program that Alt+Tab each time he moves his face
to the right, and Alt+Shift+Tab when he moved his face to the left. It was
awesome. :)

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AndrewDucker
It's a shame that the license is non-commercial only. I wonder if they've got
a commercial version available if you know the right people.

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TomOfTTB
I'm not sure that's the issue.

For Microsoft to release a commercial license they have to be able to support
it. That means relatively no bugs, staffing tech support, etc... I don't think
Microsoft is ready to do that with Kinect.

In fact, I think this SDK is a response to the homebrew solutions that were
coming out. I think Microsoft saw the focus shifting off them and onto the
open source community and they didn't want to lose the good PR. Meaning this
SDK was probably rushed out the door (and I'd suspect has some serious bugs in
it)

~~~
random42
While I concur to the premise, I must disagree with the drawn conclusion.

At the risk of speculating, I'd say MS need some more time before the release
the commercial license, for the reasons mentioned by you (robustness of the
code, staffing tech support etc.) and also to possibly see the reception of
the software by the developer community, before deciding on commercial terms
(It IS labelled beta afterall).

Edit - From [http://research.microsoft.com/en-
us/um/redmond/projects/kine...](http://research.microsoft.com/en-
us/um/redmond/projects/kinectsdk/about.aspx)

> "This SDK is designed for non-commercial purposes only; _a commercial
> version is expected to be available at a later date._ "

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praeclarum
This is a nice SDK. It's biggest improvement over the Open Source ones is the
inclusion of the skeletal tracking. This high level interface opens a lot of
great opportunities in human behavior tracking.

I'm just going to miss libfreenect and using my Mac to do this development.

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nbkolchin
NITE allowed skeleton tracking for ages.

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nutjob123
I really like that website design. Very different from what i'm used to from
microsoft

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recoiledsnake
That's the Metro UI(the UI in Zune, WP7 and Win 8) at work. More details here
if you want to go in-depth.

<http://www.riagenic.com/archives/487>

<http://www.riagenic.com/archives/493>

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rkwz
Wow! That was really interesting. They're fit to be in a hn post of their own

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kenjackson
I still think the Kinect technology is most interesting for the living room or
public places (where you don't want ppl interacting with a physical object, if
at all possible). Not sure I think my office is where it has as much use.

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Newky
Can't watch the launch demo because I don't have silverlight! Not what I hoped
for as the SDK, but as others have said I think its their most innovative
product and what may in the end crack open an area for them to innovate in.

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kenjackson
Didn't expect to see Anoop Gupta there. Very cool that he was invovled.

