
Ask HN: Cheap, hackable e-reader? - 0942v8653
I would like to buy a cheap e-reader where I can replace the software with my own (or at least be able to write my own software that I can launch and stay in, with minimal UI chrome around it). Preferably about $50 or under. I would like to have a touch screen or to be able to use most of the buttons.<p>What are some good options for this?
======
marcjuul
If you just want to modify the existing OS and write apps for it the look at
the kindle hacking community on the mobileread forums. The best devices are
probably up to and including 5th generation kindles since I believe they are
the latest to still have working soft-jailbreaks (but that could have changed
since last I checked). I believe all kindle models are trivially rootable if
you are willing to buy a 1.8v usb to serial adapter, open the kindle up and
solder on three wires. If you want a 100% FOSS distro on your device and
you're not afraid of soldering, cross-compiling and super-pre-alpha code then
read on.

I've been working on a linux distro for i.MX based e-paper readers (kindle,
kobo, etc.) for a while and just had two other hackers join me on the project.
Currently we are furthest along with the Kindle 4th generation non-touch with
a slightly modified super minimal Debian booting and basic graphics support
(Xorg works but no window manager and no screen auto-update yet. e-ink is
weird). I believe we've managed to strip out all binary blobs so it's really
all open source now. This system is still using an ancient kernel (a slight
variation on the one used by the stock OS). We just got the latest stable
kernel booting a few days ago but only barely (not even mmc support yet).
There's just three of us for now, and we hang out in #fread.ink on freenode
and our code is up on [https://github.com/fread-ink](https://github.com/fread-
ink)

You should look at the repo [https://github.com/fread-ink/fread-
vagrant](https://github.com/fread-ink/fread-vagrant) to get started.

~~~
mintplant
All e-ink Kindles _prior to firmware 5.8.8_ can be jailbroken without hardware
modifications.

[https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275877](https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275877)

The Kindle hacking community believed they had a permanent solution prior to
the release of the latest firmware version; unfortunately, Amazon seems to
have finally found a way around it.

~~~
bdelay
I don't think anyone with experience hacking kindles believed it was a
permanent solution. Unfortunately, most of the technical expertise in that
area is fleeting.

I'd recommend an older Kindle if you want to get root easier. 5th generation
Paperwhite and older models should be cheap and have various exploits.

Probably would recommend a Kobo or something else though. Kindles are awesome
pieces of hardware but they do try to keep them secure. Not the best choice
for an open platform.

------
femto
Kobos are quite hackable [1], to the extent that their Linux operating system
is on a removable internal SD card, and you can run Debian on them [2].

[1]
[https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Kobo_Touch_Hacking](https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Kobo_Touch_Hacking)

[2]
[https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Debian_Linux_on_a_Kobo](https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Debian_Linux_on_a_Kobo)

~~~
_wmd
Kobos require nothing more than a 2 line shell script on an SD card to get
telnet, after which, they publish their modified Qt sources, so you can even
rebuild the UI framework without much effort, although I don't know much about
keeping their proprietary display and touch driver blobs in place.

Back in time they had some kind of third party development support, so you
could plug addons into the existing UI. AFAIK the framework hasn't changed
much to prevent that kind of dev, and there example addons built around it

But in terms of a random stable embedded environment that is quite
transparent, with an awesome out of box hardware/software experience, Kobo are
not to be beaten

~~~
anarcat
> they publish their modified Qt sources, so you can even rebuild the UI
> framework without much effort

Really? AFAIK, only parts of the distro are liberated, here:

[https://github.com/kobolabs/Kobo-Reader](https://github.com/kobolabs/Kobo-
Reader)

Most notably, the user interface itself ("Nickel") is completely missing from
there: this makes it _really_ hard to develop extensions for it. Some people
have gone through great lengths to try and improve the firmware image, see for
example this guy who went as far as writing his own QT plugin for the UI,
basically bruteforcing his way through undocumented APIs and missing source
code:

[http://blog.ringerc.id.au/search/label/kobo](http://blog.ringerc.id.au/search/label/kobo)

He gave up in 2011.

I did my own share of fooling around with the Kobo. It's true that it's very
easy to hack: just drop a `KoboRoot.tgz` tarball in the `.kobo` directory, and
you basically overwrite any part of the filesystem, which gives you a lot of
freedom. I wrote a tool to sync my Kobo with Wallabag here called Wallabako:

[https://gitlab.com/anarcat/wallabako/](https://gitlab.com/anarcat/wallabako/)

But there's no APK, far from it: the Kobo suite is developped in typical
proprietary fashion of keeping the secret sauce to themselves, not a
collaborative way. And even though they are less hostile than Amazon in trying
to keep people out, nothing says they will keep on being nice like this.

What we really need is a liberated hardware e-reader. There are some examples
elsewhere in this thread that are interesting...

------
problems
Kobos are extremely easy to modify and completely not "protected". I highly
recommend them. Many of them have touch screens and wifi too if that's of any
benefit to you.

There's a pretty decent dev community that has Qt fully working too which
could offer you a good starting point. There are already full UI replacements
going on in the community, like KoboStartMenu and KoReader.

~~~
marcjuul
Completely agree that Kobos are better than Kindles for hacking purposes.
Generally not as easy to find cheap used though.

~~~
problems
Depends on your country, in Canada at least they're stocked by our largest
chain bookstore. They're quite readily available online just about anywhere
though.

------
frio
The bq cervantes[1] is open source[2] but isn't so cheap.

[1]:
[https://www.bq.com/es/cervantes-3-bq](https://www.bq.com/es/cervantes-3-bq)
[2]: [https://github.com/bq/cervantes](https://github.com/bq/cervantes)

I'm planning on picking one up soon (or, hopefully, a Cervantes 4 if it comes
out...). I'm (fortunately in a position where I can be) willing to pay the
extra to support F/OSS out of the box :).

~~~
marcjuul
Cool! I did not know this existed!

------
kylesf
Just wrote this, let me know if I can be of any help!

[https://medium.com/@kylesf/my-experience-in-creating-the-
wor...](https://medium.com/@kylesf/my-experience-in-creating-the-worlds-first-
low-power-animated-picture-frame-ee24877a4b46)

~~~
i336_
That looks really neat. If you ever decide to make a 2nd version, making the
bezel about 500% smaller would look a _lot_ more attractive.

Also, the C code you listed was very cute. :3

~~~
dddw
i like the bezel

~~~
i336_
I don't mind it myself, but I kind of can't unsee the fact that it looks like
it's dwarfing the tiny screen. Most picture frames have a 1 inch or so bezel,
and I guess if I was trying to emulate a physical device I'd want to copy it
as accurately as possible to maximize the surprise factor.

------
MistahKoala
The Nook Simple Touch can be rooted. I found it to be a little bit unstable,
but YMMV.

[http://nooktalk.net/blog/reliable-way-to-root-nook-simple-
to...](http://nooktalk.net/blog/reliable-way-to-root-nook-simple-touch)

Simple Touch readers should be dirt-cheap.

~~~
benchtobedside
I rooted mine back in 2014 and found it useful and quite stable. I haven't
investigated the scene since so it may have progressed significantly.

You can configure it such that the Nook would boot and appear as normal, but
holding down a key took you to the android launcher, and you would give up the
use of two (redundant) buttons of your choice to control android-specific
actions like <back>, etc.

This system was limited -- at the time -- to an older version of Android with
limited app support, but if your purpose is to create your own apps this
shouldn't pose any problem.

------
mattkevan
Anyone know anything about this:
[https://getremarkable.com](https://getremarkable.com)

It's been advertised pretty heavily, and on the face of it looks like
everything I want in an e-ink sketchbook/reader.

I have a suspicion that it will disappoint, however.

~~~
reitanqild
Doesn't even seem to be available yet (website still offering preorder && no
Amazon listing as far as I checked).

------
0942v8653
I'm currently looking at a simple 7th-gen Kindle. (
[https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Kindle-6-Inch-Previous-
Generat...](https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Kindle-6-Inch-Previous-
Generation-7th/dp/B00I15SB16?th=1) ), for $35. I've done some research, and it
seems that it is possible to jailbreak it, but I would like to be sure I can
really write software for it before I buy.

~~~
Relys
It's possible to jailbreak any Kindle as you can preform a downgrade to a
vulnerable firmware version.

~~~
i336_
I am extremely interested to hear how I could do this on a 7th gen/2014 model
Kindle Touch.

------
krick
PocketBook, I guess. I never tried programming it myself, only installed some
plugins, but it's basically a Linux underneath, so, I guess, a lot can be
done. And unlike all these shady Kindle/Kobo/Nook/whatever they don't have any
notion of DRM, they are just a _device_.

My own is quite old and the screen is not top-notch, I don't know how advanced
and expensive they come right now. But give it a look.

------
leggomylibro
I like this idea, and I'd like to take the question one step further: are
there any affordable development platforms which can work with eink screens?
I've read that the screens themselves are pricey due to EInk's de-facto
monopoly on supply, and difficult to work with due to the need for things like
manual temperature compensation just to drive the display.

But surely there must be breakout boards by now, right? Or a raspberry module
that's larger than 3"? Can you effectively source raw screens through the
usual hobby suppliers like digikey, mouser, jameco?

~~~
TD-Linux
You can, I've used Pervasive Displays (I bought them from Digikey, they also
have breakout boards):
[http://www.pervasivedisplays.com/](http://www.pervasivedisplays.com/)

But yeah they are kind of complicated to drive. I've only used the small ones,
but you do the refresh pattern manually - you also need to compensate for the
temperature, and the pixel layout is a bit funky. Luckily there's already
software for this at repaper.org, so you don't have to worry about it. The
complicated logic being in software opens the doors for more complex refresh
logic as well. Just keep in mind if you do this you can burn in the display,
so buy a couple if you plan to experiment :)

~~~
i336_
Huh. I thought controllers were insanely complicated or used proprietary
technology. This is interesting to hear!

What exactly _is_ temperature compensation? I'm aware that it's a thing, but I
haven't yet figured out what it is. Do you have to alter the drive voltage or
current or something?

Also, I'm not currently aware of any open e-ink driver designs. A few people
might be interested in the one you built, regardless of how simple it is. Of
course standard disclaimers would apply.

~~~
TD-Linux
It's way simpler than that, you just write the displayed image more times
based on temperature. If you don't do it your display will just have less
contrast in the code.

The chip-on-glass has tons of registers to set drive voltages and the like,
but the datasheet just gives you values to write to all of them.

What do you mean by e-ink driver? If you mean the software, check out the
Arduino and Raspberry Pi librares on the repaper site. If you mean the
hardware, just follow the schematics in the datasheet and repaper.org.

~~~
i336_
> _It 's way simpler than that, you just write the displayed image more times
> based on temperature._

Oh! Nice.

> If you don't do it your display will just have less contrast in the code.

That's a really great failure mode for debugging/development :) you can just
use a single repaint count until you have temperature sensing wired up.

> The chip-on-glass has tons of registers to set drive voltages and the like,
> but the datasheet just gives you values to write to all of them.

Oh okay - so there _is_ a controller. (I didn't know; totally ignorant about
the subject.)

> What do you mean by e-ink driver?

Ah; I've just done some poking around, and I just realized I misunderstood
things a bit when I last did some research (way too quickly, apparently) - I
saw
[http://www.pervasivedisplays.com/images/Kits/Extension%20boa...](http://www.pervasivedisplays.com/images/Kits/Extension%20board/Eink%20epaper%20Extension%20kit%20by%20Pervasive.jpg)
and thought I'd need to cram everything on that board onto the final design. I
didn't realize the displays were more or less self-contained (with a
builtin/COG controller) and could be driven directly like LCDs or VFDs etc and
that that board was the "kitchen sink" test/dev breakout kit.

~~~
TD-Linux
You do need part of that - a lot of it is capacitors wired directly to the
ribbon cable, for the COG's charge pump. There's also a temperature sensing
chip and a couple of external mosfets, one of which is to fix a bug on older
COGs. On my own layout I was able to shrink it quite a bit by using 0603
parts. Still expect to burn 300mm^2 on the passives.
[https://0x0.st/tqo.png](https://0x0.st/tqo.png)

~~~
i336_
Ah, I see. Thanks.

------
szatkus
Inkbook looks pretty hackable: [https://inkbook.eu/shop/inkbook-
classic-2/](https://inkbook.eu/shop/inkbook-classic-2/)

------
godelski
Has anyone hacked the boogie board? It is extremely cheap.

Edit: Googling this seems to be a good resource [1] and it looks like it is
using an msp430 so should be hackable. But I don't actually know much about
this stuff, so if someone does hack it I'd love to know how

[1]
[http://forums.hackaday.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=846](http://forums.hackaday.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=846)

~~~
duskwuff
Information in that thread and elsewhere suggests that the MSP430 doesn't have
the ability to display information on the screen. Drawing on the screen is a
purely mechanical effect, and the microcontroller is only used to clear the
screen.

More information on the technology:

[http://kentdisplays.com/technology/ewriters](http://kentdisplays.com/technology/ewriters)

~~~
i336_
What's particularly interesting about these displays is that it does seem
possible to read the image from the LCD (particularly the Jot 8.5 and the
Sync; the others don't explicitly say). I'm trying to figure out whether the
display device itself integrates memory cells or whether there's a tablet
sensor overlaid on top. The website doesn't seem to want to explain much.

~~~
godelski
I'm under the impression the sync can be used to read the image, since it does
have a save feature. I'm wondering if the reverse can be done too? Could you
make the display show an image that was previously saved?

I'm curious why you think the jot 8.5 can save. I do know the earlier models
were using an msp430, which others are suggesting cannot save the image. I
actually have one of these Jots, but I don't know anything about hardware
hacking so I'm not going to tear it apart (unless people just want pictures of
the guts and possibly what chips are in there)

~~~
i336_
Other commentators have mentioned that the display in other devices cannot be
read, and from the website it's clear to see the company focuses solely on
ChLCD (cholesteric LCD) technology.

This would depend on whether the "read from LCD" capability is an intrinsic
part of the ChLCD itself or a manufacture-time option, or if it's a separate
capacitative or optical-barrier touch layer.

I just did a bit of digging, and I found some info on repairing the Boogie
Board Rip on iFixit:
[https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Boogie+Board+Rip+Internal+Anten...](https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Boogie+Board+Rip+Internal+Antenna+Replacement/30235)
\- this shows what looks like some kind of touch layer, along with a bunch of
extra electronics.

There's also a smartphone showing a 1:1 copy of what's on the Jot on the
fourth image as you scroll down at
[https://myboogieboard.com/ewriters/jot-8.5](https://myboogieboard.com/ewriters/jot-8.5).

~~~
godelski
The jot uses a phone app and the phone's camera to get the picture. So I don't
think there is any way to read the screen on that device.

However the sync has a button which you can save the screen image and later
upload it to your computer. What I'm wondering is on this device if you could
do the reverse. I know being able to record the screen's state doesn't mean
you can reproduce it. Just wondering if you can in this case.

I know nothing about ChLCD and that type of stuff. So this isn't really clear
to me.

~~~
i336_
Oooooh. Thanks for that information about the Jot. That's remarkably good
advertising showing the smartphone on the webpage like that, I have to admit.

Regarding the Sync, I suspect it contains the same electronics as the Rip in
order to do the sync thing, and a touch panel.

Based on the other comments I've read in this thread that explain how
"writing" on screen (and "ink" showing up) is entirely mechanically driven,
ie, the pressure on the surface of the display displaces the crystals and
makes whatever you draw stay on the screen. Applying a voltage for a short
moment somehow causes the crystals to reset.

I'm not sure why the display itself wasn't made writable. It's entirely
possible Kent Displays simply couldn't find a viable way to market a
(MCU-)writable version of this technology, and so they went in this direction
instead; it's also possible that ChLCD (developed up to the point Kent have it
at) doesn't have the capability to be addressed reliably. I have no idea.

I based my hunches above about how the Boogie Board resets on something I saw
on TV a while ago, which I just determined is classified variously as
"switchable privacy glass", "electrified privacy glass" or "intelligent
glass". I learned (from the house-construction TV show) that it's essentially
a single, gigantic (!) LCD "pixel", and I saw (in one of the construction
stages) how simply plugging it into the wall and turning the wall switch on
was what made it go from opaque to transparent. Obviously it's a fair jump
from this to the Boogie Board reset mechanism, but it seems reasonable that
some of the same ideas are used in both.

------
mrmondo
I've been doing a lot of research on this recently including contacting
Chinese wholesellers to see what individual parts would cost.

Essentially all I'm after is a Linux (not android) based 7-12" eink tablet
with touch screen, a decent resolution / PPI for the size and at least say
2-4GB of ram at a minimum although if it was cheap enough I'd drop as far as
1GB if I really had to.

I have a Dasung E-Ink monitor and it's dreadful, lots of ghosting, very slow
refresh, have to have some 'interesting' software running to make it work,
hard to work with multi-desktops etc.... and very, VERY expensive:
[https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/paperlike-world-s-
first-e...](https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/paperlike-world-s-first-e-ink-
monitor-13-3#/) otherwise I'd attach that to a Pi or Cubox and live without
the touch screen.

~~~
i336_
What sorts of price ranges did the wholesalers provide, and for what? (I don't
need exact values, just a rough idea.)

Thanks for the info about the Dasung. A video showing the screen at its
absolute worst might be very useful - but to be fair, showing what things the
screen _does_ do well would be very interesting to know as well.

~~~
mrmondo
For anything even slightly useful with a half decent display I was still
looking at USD $200+ per unit and many wouldn't supply just one.

~~~
i336_
Oh wow :/ that's quite a shame.

On the other hand, this means that the Chinese "photocopying industry" doesn't
realize people want (decent!) e-ink readers. Window of opportunity, anybody?

------
orliesaurus
I have a generation 2 kindle and I would trade it for nothing, I miss having
the backlight so I actually need to have a light in the room but other than
that the amount of "hacking" I did on it is extremely impressive - oh and if
you ever read this, thank you twobob for all your hard work on the kindle

------
kutkloon7
If you're willing to take it a step further and have some experience with
hardware (or you are willing to learn), you can even buy a bare e-ink screen
and interface with it. For example, the ED060SC4 is cheap. The datasheet is
not very helpful, but if you look carefully, you can find some drivers on
github, or more generic tutorials on e-ink drivers.

[http://essentialscrap.com/eink/](http://essentialscrap.com/eink/) is probably
one of the most helpful resources out there if you want to do this.

~~~
soared
Oh man someone could easily buy these at scale, 3d print some casing, and sell
them as e-ink raspberry pi screens. Good demand and no reasonably priced
supply.

~~~
kbart
Buying e-ink screens for _e-reader_ might be a problem. During the last
project with e-ink screens, we had an explicit clause with supplier implying
that these screens will not be used for e-readers. That was 3 years ago
though, things might have changed since.

