
Depressed woman loses benefits over Facebook photos - kirubakaran
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2009/11/19/quebec-facebook-sick-leave-benefits.html
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lmkg
I have trouble believing that even a professional, experienced psychiatrist or
therapist can diagnose being cured from clinical depression based on a handful
of facebook photos. I also have trouble believing that the decision at the
insurance company was made with any involvement whatsoever from professional
psychiatrists, much less her therapist in particular.

Dropping coverage is potentially dangerous, if they're on medication. Altering
(or stopping) anti-depressent dosages requires professional oversight. And if
you're getting worker's comp, I certainly hope you're on medications.

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anigbrowl
The most interesting part: _She also doesn’t understand how Manulife accessed
her photos because her Facebook profile is locked and only people she approves
can look at what she posts._ Assuming this is not a case of user error, I too
wonder about that.

The insurance issue is interesting too, but the 'depression = disability?'
question is rather too broad for HN.

~~~
sounddust
Because the default privacy setting for photo albums is "visible to everyone",
and most people don't realize that it's independent from profile privacy. It's
one of the many flaws of facebook's privacy (at least for an ordinary user who
isn't web-savvy).

Also - even if she totally locked down her profile, the photos of her could
have been uploaded by friends with more lenient privacy settings.

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asher
I think this is the tip of a large iceberg, and we may see more of the iceberg
in upcoming years. A large number of web users have discarded traditional
ideas of privacy to post information about themselves.

Suppose Facebook applies some Machine Learning algorithm and can predict
roughly which users will incur insurance claims. Inputs could include user-
generated text, size and shape of social graph, entities recognized in user-
generated photos, etc. That data would be valuable to insurers.

It seems like many of these users are mentally in a living room with their
friends, while actually uploading their private info to a corporation's
servers.

~~~
pyre
While that may be the case, in this instance the insurance company is probably
in the wrong. The Facebook photos along should not be enough for them to say
that she's cured. Maybe enough for them to feel they need to spawn an
investigation, but I somehow doubt that they consulted with her doctor or had
a doctor of their own choosing interview her.

An insurance claims agent looking at Facebook photos is not enough to say,
"Look! There's a smile on her face! She can't be depressed! It's impossible
for a depressed person to smile!" This isn't exactly the same as seeing a
photo of someone that claims to be paralyzed from the waist-down running in a
marathon...

How the insurance company accessed the photos in this instance is irrelevant.
I'm more concerned with how they _used_ them once they had them. I'd be
concerned with how they obtained them if there was a possibility of using
'dubious means' though.

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callmeed
I'll be totally honest–I'm having a really hard time generating a _fair_
opinion on this matter.

I'm not going to pretend to know how depression works, how often it strikes
patients, or how much it disables a person. If you truly can't work, I get it.

OTOH, if you can go on vacation, it would seem to me that you could perhaps
work part-time, try to attend vocational rehab, or something.

I know it's not popular to side with big insurance companies, but I can't
blame them for at least investigating claims like this.

~~~
enjo
My father is a V.A. Dentist. He routinely sees veterans who are collecting big
benefit checks and receiving full medical (plus travel compensation) for PTSD.
The the thing is, they never get "better". They live on the tax-payees dime
perpetually. Most have never seen combat.

This is a lot like that.

~~~
antipaganda
There's no widely-accepted cure for PTSD yet. Sometimes people get better on
their own, but we really don't know why.

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GiraffeNecktie
What people don't seem to understand about insurance is that they are entirely
motivated by profit. They're not your mom and dad. They're not going to feel
obligated just because you've been contributing to their plan for twenty
years. If you have car accident, for example, they're ok with you being laid
up for a few weeks but after a certain point you become a problem, a very
serious problem and they'll do whatever it takes to get you back to work. Or
off their books. Either way it doesn't matter. The longer you drain their
funds, the more intensely they'll scrutinize your life, looking for some
justification to ditch you. If you're on sick leave due to depression it's
just dumb to post party pictures on the Internet.

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tokenadult
This is private disability insurance in a province of Canada? How does that
interact with Canada's system of medical insurance?

~~~
imack
There are still private insurance companies that will cover things not
normally covered by the provincial plans. Drugs would be another good example
of something not universally covered (depending on drug). Drugs are, however,
price controlled in many cases. My sister has asthma, and has to pay a lot for
inhalers; thus, working somewhere with health coverage is still a big concern
for her.

Quebec always tends to do things a little differently, but I'm surprised at
this because in general they cover more things publicly, not less. I'm betting
that the province would only cover "long term" disability.

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KevBurnsJr
This is what happens when we treat mental illness like physical illness.

Depression just ain't the same as a broken leg.

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tptacek
You can get paid sick leave for "depression" in Canada?

(You can't easily claim worker's comp for mental illness in the US without it
being concomitant to a physical injury; I'm not making a statement about the
seriousness of depression.)

~~~
anonjon
"depression" is serious. I would down vote you if I could.

~~~
padmanabhan01
If it is serious, why aren't those benefits available in US?

~~~
pyre
It wasn't that long ago that people with mental problems were sequestered away
in asylums where the conditions were often-times worse than the prison system.
And many times the workers would abuse the patients (phsyically,sexually,etc)
because there was little the patients could do (i.e. if she says that I raped
her, I'll just say that she's delusional).

Is it any wonder, that other mental conditions aren't really taken seriously?
For most people 'depression' is some nebulous condition that no one takes
seriously until the depressed person has a failed attempt at suicide _then_
everyone says that the "didn't see it coming."

