
Electric Cars Hit Record in Norway - reddotX
https://www.npr.org/2019/04/02/709131281/electric-cars-hit-record-in-norway-making-up-nearly-60-of-sales-in-march?t=1554317167022
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meritt
While the data is accurate, it's a bit misleading. Tesla started Model 3
deliveries to Europe in March from pre-orders that began three years ago.
We're seeing the impact of these pre-orders all coming in at once and the
number of vehicles registered last month is very anomalous.

In total there were 18,375 cars registered in March compared to 11,106 in
February '19 and 14,401 in March '18\. If you back out the Tesla Model 3
impact (-5,300), you're left with 13,075 vehicles registered last month.

[1] Data source: [https://ofv.no/bilsalget/bilsalget-i-
mars-2019-1](https://ofv.no/bilsalget/bilsalget-i-mars-2019-1)

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surfmike
Not surprising given that they don't tax electric cars and that normal petrol
cars have taxes that can be around 100%, doubling their value.

Also, electric cars in Norway have lots of other incentives: reduced road
tolls, registration fees, and petrol is heavily taxed.

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rcMgD2BwE72F
Are you saying that there's some kind of externalities at play here?

Because I can think of a few other externalities that help non-EV far more
than the ones you mentioned (not taxing them for ruining our health and
climate, for a start).

This all seems an overdue correction to me. But I'd go further and support
non-individual transportation more, too.

~~~
hc8bn1
Whether the taxes are just or not is irrelevant here; pretending people are
buying EVs just because they like them better (which is what I get from the
headline) is deceptive.

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hello_friendos
"Electric Cars Hit Record in Norway Making Up Nearly 60 Percent of Sales in
March"

Where does the headline suggest that? It simply states the makeup of sales.

~~~
hc8bn1
Yeah, it doesn't. But to me it sounds like that % of sales is organic. I mean,
that's why it's news, no?

I think it's much more newsworthy that 40% of cars sold use petrol, when they
cost DOUBLE because of taxes.

~~~
Reason077
They don’t cost double. In many cases petrol cars are still cheaper than their
electric counterparts in Norway. Hyundai Kona petrol, for example, is slightly
cheaper than Hyundai Kona electric.

But because of their tax exempt status, the price premium for electrics is
much smaller in Norway than in most other countries.

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Zenst
I'd be interested how well electric cars faired in Norway as I would expect
the colder months would impact the battery performance (reduce range). Which
makes me wonder if manufacturers do any country adaptations for the local
climate.

~~~
andrewtbham
[https://www.tesla.com/blog/tesla-superowner-arctic-
circle](https://www.tesla.com/blog/tesla-superowner-arctic-circle)

The temperature dropped to -40 degrees Celsius. It was so cold that the trains
couldn’t operate and the diesel in the buses froze. But the Model S was just
fine.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Money quote:

“We found out that it’s a super winter car,” says Jens. “It’s so fantastic.
It’s much easier and better than an ordinary car.” He likes that you can heat
the Model S remotely via an app, so that there’s no ice or snow on the car
when you’re ready to drive it. He also says the winter range is almost the
same as the summer range. In December, he and Røsnes took the Model S to an
ice hotel in Sweden, 200km from Narvik. The temperature dropped to -40 degrees
Celsius. It was so cold that the trains couldn’t operate and the diesel in the
buses froze. But the Model S was just fine."

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newnewpdro
In an old book about the development of the Prudhoe Bay Oil Field in Alaska,
it was called Alaska Crude if memory serves, they described having to burn
fires beneath the oil pans of their trucks to unseize the moving parts because
the oil had _frozen_ solid.

EVs seem obviously superior in this department, at least when it comes to cold
enough temperatures to freeze engine oil.

~~~
tonyarkles
Charcoal briquettes in a roaster pan can be useful there too, if you're ever
in that situation. You get the radiative warmth without the flame (once it's
burned down).

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xiphias2
The really interesting stats will come when the affordable (Standard Range)
Model 3 will be available in Europe in a few months. I'm sure a lot of people
in Norway are waiting for it.

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Thlom
Half of the electrical cars delivered in March were Tesla Model 3.

~~~
xiphias2
I meant Standard Range (the affordable version of Model 3). I updated my
comment.

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finnjohnsen2
Its basically just a tax trick to make us look and feel better about all these
oil fields we're harvesting at full speed

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newnewpdro
This is irrelevant.

The potential value is in an entire nation demonstrating it's possible to
function perfectly well at a high quality of life on an electrified
transportation system.

Whatever means were used to compel its citizens to cooperate with pivoting
energy sources is moot. Every nation will have to figure that out for itself.

Edit: added "potential" qualifier

~~~
finnjohnsen2
It matters how you pay for your your clean vehicles. If your money is from
burning lots og oil, which is partially the case here, you may not eventually
be saving any CO2 from the atmosphere. Which is the whole point of electric
vehicles. I would love to see some numbers on these things.

~~~
newnewpdro
There is no realistic scenario where all the remaining oil stays in the
ground.

The _best_ practical case is that it gets applied towards transitioning to
renewables ASAP.

What seems more likely right now is that most of it gets burned gratuitously
on Business As Usual; frivolously flying around the planet and driving archaic
gas-guzzling machines without even preparing ourselves for when it runs out.

Actually stopping CO2 emissions and not burning most of the remaining oil is a
ridiculous fantasy.

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jillesvangurp
EVs being popular in Norway is interesting for a couple of reasons mainly
because they counter popular arguments against EV .

1) Lots of people are worried about EV performance in cold weather. Well, if
you can drive an EV in Narvik (well within the polar circle), that means this
is pretty much a solved problem. I don't think many people realize just how
dangerous can be to operate a vehicle in arctic temperatures in a remote area
where the weather can kill you in no time at all. E.g. heating your car is not
optional when it is minus 40 and you have to be prepared for the car breaking
down. The cold can kill you in no time at all if you get stuck in the middle
of nowhere. Yet, EVs are both common and popular across Norway (not just the
south). That means Norwegians consider them safe and practical enough to drive
around some of the harshest places in the world.

2) Range anxiety in a huge, sparsely populated country with a harsh climate
like Norway is ... not a thing. There are charging points all over the place.
Better still, in much of the country it is common to plugin petrol cars as
well to keep them warm. This is not optional when temperatures regularly drop
well below the point where the car would even start. If you are plugging the
car in anyway, you might as well charge the car. And of course electricity is
dirt cheap in Norway because they have hydro-power.

There are of course many other reasons why EVs in Norway (and elsewhere) are
interesting. But I thought these were worth highlighting.

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lastpingstandin
The tax breaks used to encourage electric vehicles is almost entirely paid for
through fossil fuel exports.

While I appreciate any move towards better sustainability, let's not forget
that Norway is effectively exporting its emissions.

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roland35
Electric cars are a lot of fun to drive, but ultimately I think the incentives
are the biggest factor here. I was thinking about getting a pure battery
electric car (BEV) but the risk that worried me was how long the range would
be in 8-10 years in the cold. I have a short commute now but I did not know
where I would be living and working in 8-10 years!

~~~
leesec
The cheapest Tesla right now has an over 200+ range. In 10 years it will be
much longer. I hope your future commute is not 100 miles each way.

~~~
roland35
I was thinking more a Nissan Leaf as a Model 3 is a bit above my price range
right now sadly. I recently had an 80 mile/day commute through a large
valley/hill which would have been impossible in a used Leaf unless I could
charge at work.

~~~
TulliusCicero
Leaf+ is a little over 200 now.

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dang
Recent electric car record in Norway thread:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18806930](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18806930)

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edoo
You can also pretty much drive across the whole country in an EV. That is
huge. A 300 mile range in the US isn't spectacular.

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flurdy
:/ That is a bit disingenuous in a narrow but long country. Norway is only 6km
at its narrowest (Tysfjord) but is 2,500km long (and 25,000km of coastline).

Of course, the USA is enormous in comparison, especially width wise.

[https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-
comparison/unit...](https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-
comparison/united-states/norway)

 _(Trying to find facts I binged into a few odd pages. Not that relevant to
EVs or geography but this was an interesting
comparison:[https://www.ifitweremyhome.com/compare/US/NO](https://www.ifitweremyhome.com/compare/US/NO))
_

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edoo
Check out a population density map. Almost the entire country is in the EV
range blob in the bottom.

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DeonPenny
Really they are like 90% tesla and a little bit of other cars.

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beat
"That's impossible!", say a whole lot of people who prefer their beliefs to
measurable, objective reality.

~~~
KorematsuFred
It is indeed impossible assuming the competition between gas cars and electric
cars is fair.

~~~
phil248
How do you make it fair if one type of car is guaranteed to wreck the planet?
Hard to level that playing field. But Norway seems to have done a decent job
of it.

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kolbe
Norway (population 5.3 million) is the 14th largest exporter of crude oil in
the world.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_expor...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_exports)

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phil248
Thanks for the non sequitur.

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Gibbon1
It's amusing to see people frantically clutching at straws in this thread. And
downvoting to establish their version of truth.

~~~
beat
I am _so_ used to getting downvoted for saying true things that don't fit the
HN groupthink.

~~~
KorematsuFred
I am actually surprised I even have 300+ karma points in first place given my
opinions.

The weird part is I haven't really said anything that is even remotely
indicative that I do not care about the planet or I hate electric cars etc.
(The holy values that invoke the pitchfork mob of HN).

The reason why most people are skeptical of electric cars in todays market is
because a second hand $5000 corolla beats that $40K Tesla any day it terms of
affordability. Sure we can all speed up the adoption of electric cars saying
the households that own only electric cars need not pay taxes at all for next
5 years. USA might soon have 100% electric cars.

I merely pointed out that the cost of electric cars in Norway is being paid
through taxes and hence 60% sales is not impossible but fully predictable.

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cjohansson
Then there is the issue of electricity shortage. Sweden for instance doesn’t
have enough electricity to supply electric cars if everyone should have it.
And then there is solar storm / EMP vulnerabilities with all electric
infrastructure. And then there is cobolt shortage issues and production
issues. No, I vote for E100 or gasdriven cars for the future.

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decebalus1
because everyone will switch to electric cars tomorrow. Supply will
accommodate the demand. There wasn't enough gas to go around when cars came
out. Solar storm / EMP vulnerabilities? Are you fucking kidding me? How about
OPEC as a tried and tested vulnerability? How about shortage of oil as finite
resource as a vulnerability?

~~~
cjohansson
Ethanol and gas is not finite resources. Electricity is hard to produce in a
enbironmental friendly way at the amount required for electric cars.

