
Lenovo’s Fedora-Powered ThinkPad P53 Is Everything I Want in a Linux Laptop - rkangel
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2020/08/10/lenovo-new-thinkpad-p53-fedora-linux-laptop
======
acabal
For anyone looking for a Linux laptop without an Nvidia card, Lenovo allows
you to customize P1 Gen2s so that they only have an Intel GPU. For day-to-day
dev work it's more than enough even on a 4k screen.

I just bought one and it's a really good Linux laptop, by which I mean most of
the hardware works at an acceptable level out of the box. (That's no small
feat for a current-gen laptop of any brand.)

Complaints:

\- The OLED screen option has some kind of visible honeycomb layer on top.
Forums threads suggest this is the touch layer, but it's really distracting
and shockingly low-quality. My unit also came with a pink tint across half the
screen which is a common OLED defect. I swapped it for the IPS screen which is
excellent and doesn't have touch, a bonus in my book.

\- Current Intel GPU drivers on Ubuntu 20.04 suffer from visible lag and
tearing when using the built-in 4k screen. I believe Canonical has fixed this
for 20.10 but it doesn't seem to be backported yet.

\- The GPU drivers suffer from a bug that disables the HDMI port if a cable is
present at boot. There are bugs filed in the Intel tracker but this is an
older GPU so I don't know if they'll ever get attention.

\- The trackpad is coated in some kind of matte coating that makes your finger
stick and skip when using it. Very uncomfortable. They claim it's glass but
I've used really nice glass trackpads (in 5-year-old machines even) and this
ain't it.

Besides these nits, two of which are fixable driver issues, it's a great
machine and I'd recommend it with the IPS/Intel-only options.

~~~
ChuckNorris89
The P series seems pretty overpriced compared to the competition today IMHO.
And 9th gen Intel CPU in 2020?! My current laptop mantra is Ryzen 4000 or
bust.

But ok, ok, say they didn't have time to port their design to the new AMD
chips since they're new. Fine, but I better see Ryzen based notebooks with
more than 16GB of RAM and 512GB SSD and 16:10 screens with res higher than
FullHD in 2021 or I'm gonna lose my shit.

~~~
manishsharan
The P series' draw for me is that it is almost bulletproof. The body is sturdy
and the internals easily accessible. I on on a P50 that is still going strong
without any issues.

~~~
ako
I have a p1 gen core i9 32gb 4K oled with dgpu. Battery life is horrible, max
3 hrs on battery saving mode. The thing doesn’t really feel that fast on
windows, dispute 16 threads, 8 cores. And the keyboard is horrible, constantly
missing keys. (Yes, updated all the drivers). I had a t470s before, keyboard
was really nice, but somehow the p1 is really bad, I only want to use it with
an external keyboard.

~~~
acabal
I believe there was a BIOS fix for the keyboard issues very recently. Check to
make sure you have the latest BIOS version installed.

------
fermienrico
For macOS users:

Checkout Lenovo Carbon X1. It is one of the best things I own.

Ever picked up a macbook and paused for a second to think subconciously "it's
gonna feel cold on my lap until it warms up to my body temp"? I know everytime
I wanna use my macbook, the cold aluminum is such a pain. I think about it
everytime I sit down with it.

With Carbon X1 (running macOS[1]), it just feels wonderful to touch,
magnesium/carbon body is way lighter than anything Apple makes.

I think it is time for Apple to use magnesium alloys, soft touch coating and
still maintain extremely premium/luxury aspect. Keyboard is amazing. LCD is on
par with Apple or even better. I have the HD 2560x1440 400 nits model. There
is a shutter for webcam.

I also opened it up and replaced the thermal paste with gallium since the
heatsink is copper (can't do this if it is alumnium). It runs cool but there
is a problem with the macOS battery management and that's being solved right
now. Regardless, I still love this thing.

[1]
[https://github.com/tylernguyen/x1c6-hackintosh](https://github.com/tylernguyen/x1c6-hackintosh)

~~~
Traster
How is the power management aspect of running Mac OS? That's the only
complaint I have (using windows) on my X1 carbon compared to my old macbook
pro.

~~~
fermienrico
Yea that's the only pain, sleep doesn't work and it runs slightly hot. There
is an issue around it and hopefully it will be fixed.

------
mapgrep
I predominately run Fedora when I use a laptop, along with Debian. I really
have come to enjoy Fedora. I don't notice a ton of difference over Debian
moment to moment, except perhaps you tend to have newer versions of things in
the repos (like Firefox), with the flipside being, you are upgrading your
distro major version much more often (and you get used to it). On the other
hand there tends to be a touch more in the Debian repo and I've noticed there
are some apps that support Debian packaging out of the box but not Fedora
(Signal Desktop, Spotify) - for me this is less of an issue because I just
make a new debian VM (I use the Qubes hypervisor, which uses Fedora for dom0
and Fedora as default in VMs).

All that said, there is no way I'd carry around a 5.5lb laptop, personally :-)
Fedora seems happy with my X1 Carbon gen5 though.

~~~
ufo
I use Flatpak to install things such as Signal and Zoom. It covers most of the
situations where I'd install a deb or rpm in the past.

~~~
mapgrep
Nice, I may try that - I assume you get everything from flathub by default?

~~~
ufo
Yup. All from Flathub.

------
0xfaded
From the Arch wiki

    
    
      Use nvidia-prime to switch between cards. External outputs are connected to the nvidia gpu. 
    

My X1 extreme gen 2 has PRIME, and the experience is miserable. I got so used
to everything just working with intel integrated graphics, but I wanted to be
able to use cuda on my laptop. With hacks you can get external displays
working, but my understanding is that the current solution is to run a second
Xserver for the dedicated GPU and blit everything across. The display is too
laggy for anything other than a static presentation.

~~~
paol
For your use case the best option is to run video off the intel integrated
graphics and leave the DGPU entirely for compute.

That's how I have this very laptop configured, and also how I configured the
workstations for the people here using GPUs for DL development (because a
composited desktop will get very janky if you try to run it off a GPU
currently being brought to its knees by a training process).

~~~
0xfaded
For Gen 2? I did try that.

My understanding was that the external outputs were wired to the nvidia card,
and therefore I wasn't able to use them without the wacky PRIME setup.

------
blaser-waffle
Neat! I've had a rpm/red-hat based OS (mostly Fedora) on Thinkpads for years
now. I'll check this out.

Also interesting they chose to compare to System76, presumably it's because it
ships with Linux, but I feel like a real comparison would be with Dell or Acer
offerings.

> Let’s focus on the hardware in the spotlight now. And lest you think I’ve
> lost my ability to be critical, I’ll open with this: the bezels on this
> beast look comically oversized for a laptop in 2020. I understand the P53
> isn't a sexy ultrabook and isn’t trying to win any thinness awards. I also
> get that the thicker bezels reinforce the durability of the display panel.

Aye, I think bezels are flimsy and lead to lots of fingerprints on the edges.
I don't buy Thinkpads because they're sleek and sexy, I buy them because
they're robust and starkly elegant. Same idea as having a small/mid-sized
pickup truck: I don't need it to be pretty, I just need it to be reliable and
functional enough for regular use.

Odd choices of gaming comparisons though -- Dawn of War III & DiRT Rally, but
not LoL, Overwatch, Red Dead Redemption, etc.

------
HumblyTossed
Except it has a number pad. A pet peeve of mine because they shift everything
over which is off putting for a laptop.

------
generatorguy
I love that the P53 has all the ports on the back so I don’t have cables
cluttering up the sides of my on the road desk spaces where I like to keep a
proper mouse and mouse pad and a notebook. In the office it’s still nicer too
even though it gets hooked up to external monitor and keyboard. No I don’t
have a docking station.

~~~
roland35
This works well if the laptop is front and center, but I actually have my
laptop in a stand which holds it vertically to save desk space. I suppose the
laptop could sit in my stand at 90 degrees but that might look a little
strange! There are plenty of desk laptop stands though, so I am sure options
exist.

------
loop0
I'm a fedora and thinkpad user for 8+ years now, I would love to see Lenovo
consider selling this machine (or any 15+ inches) without the numpad and with
a centered touchpad.

~~~
graton
I'll disagree for my personal preference. I'm not a fan of small keyboards. I
really enjoy having my 104 key buckling spring keyboard. So to me it is nice
to see a laptop with a numpad as I like having mine.

I was seriously considering ordering a Model F keyboard (
[https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/](https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/) ) But the
largest model is a measly 77 key model :( For desktop use, my requirement is
to have a numpad. I realize why they did it as costs are a lot lower for 77
keys vs 104 keys. But still disappointed.

~~~
jimhefferon
Aren't there numpads on some keyboards on that page?

------
JAlexoid
Well... They have P1 "Coming Soon", that is:

1\. Touchscreen 4K OLED

2\. Light(half the weight of P53)

3\. Slightly slower graphics(T2000)

4\. Also Fedora certified!

~~~
pepemon
Hoping for the version without a discrete GPU.

------
filereaper
I wish Lenovo gave a P53 and GTX graphics without the "gamery" glitz of the
Legion lineup.

I really want a workstation class laptop where IO isn't severely limited.
Lenovo really cuts down on USB-C and Display IO across their lineup, their
marketing is misleading where on the t580 one of the USB-C ports only charges
so you're left with just one thunderbolt USB-C port.

Right now I'm looking at the Clio based System76 series but not sure of their
build quality.

~~~
notacoward
I bought a Legion (the 4800H-based one) for my daughter a couple of months
ago; "glitz" is not a word I'd use to describe it and I/O limitations haven't
been an issue. As far as I can tell it's a fine machine, and _excellent_ for
the sub-US$1000 price. The only negative I can think of is using a proprietary
power brick. :(

------
AzzieElbab
Hmm always found Gnome to be too bulky for laptop screens. Pop modified gnome
with tiling and minimal borders is a bit better

~~~
purchasedwinrar
Pop made Gnome exactly what I wanted out of the box. Plus the new tiling was
the icing on the cake. Minimal tweaking to start doing what I want it to do.

------
noisy_boy
I heard good things about Fedora and tried to switch to it from my Ubuntu
19.10 install. I have a somewhat custom install of specific partitions across
two SSDs and the installer just couldn't cope with it. It didn't give a choice
to map some partitions to just a mount point without formatting and some
others were simply not visible. Tried Pop!_OS next and all these issues went
away. I could see all my partitions, assign them to whichever mount point I
wanted and choose whether I wanted a partition to be formatted or not. Not a
surprise though since it is based on Ubuntu and uses the same installer.

Having used several distributions, Ubuntu's Ubiquity installer is the gold
standard in my opinion in terms of striking the balance between flexibility,
user friendliness and UX. Pop!_OS has been awesome so far but would like to
try out Fedora at some point.

~~~
pepemon
What's exactly Anaconda made wrong? Distro-tossing isn't a way how you can
polish your Linux skills.

~~~
noisy_boy
> What's exactly Anaconda made wrong?

As I mentioned earlier:

"It didn't give a choice to map some partitions to just a mount point without
formatting and some others were simply not visible."

> Distro-tossing isn't a way how you can polish your Linux skills.

I agree with you. Though my primary purpose behind using Linux is not to
polish my Linux skills (I've been using Linux for close to 20 years now) but
is driven by my belief in open source, Linux's flexibility and the great
ecosystem of software. However, one has only a finite amount of time and since
Anaconda didn't provide me with an option to work with my current setup (I
explored various options like advanced mode etc without much success), I had
to move on to something that worked which turned out to be the Ubiquity
installer used by Pop!_OS. I probably should have tried to document the
probelms and raise an issue in the Anaconda forum/github - will do that next
time I try Fedora.

~~~
pepemon
> It didn't give a choice to map some partitions to just a mount point without
> formatting and some others were simply not visible.

Yeah, I got it. I've just wanted to get a more deeper explanation of your
existing partitioning situation - I've set up RHEL derivatives on some very
vague partitioning variations. Never thought that there could be the problems.
Maybe it's just a GUI limitation?

~~~
noisy_boy
I think it is almost certainly a GUI limitation. E.g. I have a ext4 partition
that I usually mount on /other and preserve it when distro-hopping. I can't
remember exactly but one of these things happened - it didn't detect this
partition / didn't give me the option to preserve it / didn't allow me to
specify the mount point for it. Had a similar issue with another partition
too. I think I also had some minimum space related restriction that refused to
go away. Wish I had taken notes/pictures.

------
Ologn
I have been using a 17" Serval WS System 76 Ubuntu laptop for ten months,
particularly heavily since March (when Covid started). I have been happy with
it. I upgraded to Ubuntu 20.04 at the beginning of July and that has had no
problems.

I have used System76 laptops for eight years. Around 2012-2014 I was not
totally satisfied with them because of issues that would come up now and
again. I kept buying from them though as I did not see any better
alternatives. They have gotten better in recent years from my perspective, I
have been happy with the laptop I bought last year.

------
Adaptive
I ran Linux on a P50 for _years_ and that unit, which is sitting in front of
me right now, is the reason that I won't buy another ThinkPad, ever.

It was the biggest lemon I've ever owned. I've been through multiple
mainboards, dozens of repair center calls for battery and power issues (which
persist even now).

(Having owned somewhere around a half dozen different ThinkPads, all of them
well loved up till the P50, this was a sad end to my support of that
platform.)

~~~
mistaken
Lenovo slowly transitioned away from IBM's design over the years. They are now
using cheaper plastics and have horrible chassis designs which dig into your
wrists due to their non-rounded edges. They're trying to make Thinkpads look
more slick while at the same time reducing the cost to manufacture them. IMHO
the Thinkpad can no longer be considered a platform which you can safely buy
knowing that every component will be fully supported in Linux. Some hardware
components are not even working correctly in Windows or are faulty (I'm
looking at you Fibocom WWAN modem; see:
[https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-T400-T500-and-
newer-T-...](https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-T400-T500-and-newer-T-
series-Laptops/Fibocom-L850-GL-WWAN-Problems-on-
Multiple-T480s-Laptops/m-p/4339294?page=2)). I would happily buy from any
other brand if they have a laptop model with a good trackpoint.

------
apotatopot
I just picked up their new Ryzen 5 4500U laptop and slapped Mint on it with
the latest rc for kernel 5.8. its one of the best laptops i've had, esp
running linux.

~~~
jhoechtl
Now that would make a cool review, interested in that setup!

------
jasoneckert
As a developer, the two most important things to me in a laptop are durability
(I take it many places) and a good keyboard, and I have found that the
ThinkPad P, X and T series are equally good in these regards and leagues
beyond the competition.

I'm currently running Fedora on a ThinkPad P52 and couldn't ask for a better
development workstation.

------
arilotter
I love the P53! I got one to replace an X1 Carbon after I kept thermal
throttling when compiling Rust.

I run NixOS on mine, and it's _almost_ perfect. Hopefully, with this official
Fedora release, I'll be able to change the screen brightness when using the
Nvidia GPU - it's currently stuck at 100%. Damn Nvidia + Linux :(

------
hrishios
No mention of battery life yet - and unfortunately for me that's pretty
important. I daily drive a Linux laptop that gets 9 hours (but with a good
amount of tweaking), and the day we get 13 hours or more is the day I become a
complete advocate for Linux on the go.

~~~
rwmj
AMD Ryzen 4000 laptops have much better battery life. My year old Intel
Thinkpad (not the one discussed here) gets about 3-4 hours on a good day. My
HP Envy x360 gets 12+ hours. Both run the same version of Fedora and a similar
mix of browser/compiles. As an extra bonus the AMD portable chips are _much_
faster.

------
genpfault
All that space and they couldn't fit in a full-sized arrow-key cluster :(

------
AlexTrask
>The ThinkPad P53 is a great machine, but maybe it's time for Lenovo to
implement a more ... [+] fingerprint-resistant material? \- No please, I
prefer fingerprints than scratches

~~~
yjftsjthsd-h
Even just a matte finish should fix fingerprints, no?

------
luord
I liked the mentions of the system76 boxes. I'm hoping for their internally
designed laptop to be my next workstation.

Nonetheless, this Thinkpad sounds pretty good.

~~~
schaefer
Interesting, can you provide any references for info about their internally
designed laptop?

~~~
luord
There have actually been no other news about that project since late last
year, when they announced they were working on it.

They, however, haven't announced that the idea is shelved, so I remain hopeful
that the laptop will see the light one day.

------
hyperpl
Looks good except it still has a 16:9 screen. Looking forward to the rumored
Titanium and Nano.

~~~
efficax
this thing is already big enough to have its own orbit. imagine a 4:3 screen
on this beast

------
mindslight
Based on the title ("Everything I want in a Linux Laptop"), it seems like the
author needs to learn about coreboot and Intel ME. It's hard to take a review
seriously when it doesn't even touch upon built in backdoors.

~~~
war1025
Well, it's everything he wants, not necessarily everything you want.

