
Neuralink Live Stream [video] - miguelrochefort
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-vbh3t7WVI
======
amanzi
If you're interested in reading more about Neuralink, I highly recommend this
article:
[https://waitbutwhy.com/2017/04/neuralink.html](https://waitbutwhy.com/2017/04/neuralink.html)

It's a long read, but fascinating. The analogy of comparing the brain to a
stadium of people cheering made it really easy to understand Neuralink's aims.

~~~
org3432
Oh god, that web page is in the format of a ranting crazy person. Is there a
quicker explanation somewhere?

~~~
Buge
My idea of ranting crazy person's website doesn't have facebook share buttons
and a popup asking me to subscribe to a newsletter. For reference, here are my
ideas of a crazy person's website:

[http://timecube.2enp.com/](http://timecube.2enp.com/)

[https://web.archive.org/web/20171002152147/http://templeos.o...](https://web.archive.org/web/20171002152147/http://templeos.org/)

[https://web.archive.org/web/20180404034756/http://nasimabc.c...](https://web.archive.org/web/20180404034756/http://nasimabc.com/)

~~~
m3at
To be fair, waitbutwhy's newsletter isn't spam, it only send about one email
per year when new articles are published. As publications are so infrequent,
that's a good way not to forget about this blog

------
ricardobeat
They’ve published a whitepaper including pictures of the implanted electrodes
on a rat’s brain: [https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6204648-Neuralink-
Wh...](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6204648-Neuralink-White-
Paper.html)

Summary: 3k+ electrodes in the test device, each thread is 1/10 of a human
hair, they connect directly to custom chips that are bundled in a 4x4mm
package. The test one has a USB-C port but in humans it would be implanted
under the skin - a single 2mm incision with minimal bleeding - and communicate
wirelessly.

Looks like their main technology is the surgery robot and the custom chips.
This is truly out of science fiction and will be an incredible revolution if
it works.

~~~
wrinkl3
> Looks like their main technology is the surgery robot and the custom chips

They're also building up a software stack to analyze the sensor output,
complete with a user-facing smartphone app.

------
enoreyes
Looks like Bloomberg just posted their pre-written article on accident:

[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-07-17/elon-
musk...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-07-17/elon-musk-s-
neuralink-says-it-s-ready-to-begin-brain-surgery)

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _A wire attached to a USB-C port in its head transmitted its thoughts to a
> nearby computer_

Any speculation around why USB-C was used? Or why this was a detail Neuralink
wanted to message on?

~~~
jjeaff
Why pay extra for a special purpose cable to plug your skull into the matrix
when you can just get a 99 cent one off Alibaba?

~~~
txcwpalpha
One reason I can think of: a 99 cent one off of alibaba might deliver a 100
volt jolt directly to a device that is electrically connected to your brain,
killing you instantly.

I'm all for universal standards, but this really does seem like a case where
the connection should be a clean sheet (maybe even proprietary) design where
safety parameters can be tightly controlled. My guess is that they're using
USB during the development phase for ease of development (they probably just
haven't spent the time on making a different connector yet). I would be _very_
surprised to see this actually go to market with a USB-C port. Given the
notorious issues with USB-C cables, I would be surprised if the FDA even
approved a device with a user-accessible USB-C port.

~~~
Tepix
I don't see how a (passive) cable can create a 100volt jolt out of thin air.

------
jimpudar
Symbiosis between man and AI sounds both exciting and incredibly frightening.
Imagine on one hand the potential for improving our own intelligence, but on
the other hand widening the gap between the rich who can afford this kind of
augmentation and the poor who can't.

This is going to be a hell of a ride.

~~~
isoprophlex
Also... Think of the potential for ad delivery!

~~~
swalsh
They touched on that in the presentation. Specifically, they absolutely
believe ads through the device crosses an ethical line.

------
datpuz
I don't feel like my ability to interface with the computer is a major
bottleneck for me. If I'm writing code, for example, my typing speed is really
not a factor. Even typing this very short comment, I paused several times to
think of how to phrase things.

~~~
yarg
No, but the language certainly is.

Imagine a computer interface capable of actualising the conceptual structures
that you are imagining.

Imagine that this interface had a feedback mechanism simulating a virtual eye
allowing you to perceive a full three dimensional rendering of that concept in
real time.

Now think of an arraylist, think of how it responds to changes, visualise the
corner cases.

You just wrote the code.

~~~
sjg007
Imagine an infinite loop

~~~
yarg
Sure, it's a box with an arrow that goes from the box to the box.

------
0vermorrow
While we wait for the delayed stream to start, it's worth taking a peek at
their job board which has some interesting bits of information in the job
descriptions:
[https://jobs.lever.co/neuralink](https://jobs.lever.co/neuralink)

For example:

> "As an Optical Engineer at Neuralink you will develop custom optics and
> imaging systems used directly in our surgical robot, and associated
> consumables manufacturing systems." [0]

EDIT: I guess the article from The Verge linked in the other comments sheds
even more light on that particular bit:

> "[...] the company has developed ”a neurosurgical robot capable of inserting
> six threads (192 electrodes) per minute [automatically],” according to the
> white paper. " [1]

Similarly described in the Bloomberg article which was just released [2]

[0] -
[https://jobs.lever.co/neuralink/c98c011c-0f49-497e-a504-59a5...](https://jobs.lever.co/neuralink/c98c011c-0f49-497e-a504-59a561848002)

[1] - [https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/16/20697123/elon-musk-
neural...](https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/16/20697123/elon-musk-neuralink-
brain-reading-thread-robot)

[2] - [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-07-17/elon-
musk...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-07-17/elon-musk-s-
neuralink-says-it-s-ready-to-begin-brain-surgery)

------
jshaqaw
All of these cyberpunk futures people have in the comments about writing code
via their brain interface is fun speculation. I know a young boy who is almost
totally paralyzed head to foot. If in 5years this gives him significantly
greater mobility and ability to communicate it will be a true blessing.

~~~
Robotbeat
This is the real sort of early application, and it’s also the least
frightening.

I hope we see massive improvements in computer security in the next few
decades because otherwise “jacking in” to any kind of computer with Internet
access is a terrifying thought.

------
AlphaWeaver
Here's the direct YouTube link:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-vbh3t7WVI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-vbh3t7WVI)

~~~
dang
Thanks, we've changed to that from
[https://neuralink.com/](https://neuralink.com/), which no longer seems to
have the video.

------
kregasaurusrex
SpaceX's StarHopper engine looks like it caught fire, which is livestreaming
at the same time[0].

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACYW4RDCS90](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACYW4RDCS90)

~~~
geuis
Didn’t catch fire. Just had a delayed exothermic reaction

------
nikkwong
To me it's just unfathomable to imagine what the future of humanity looks like
if everyone has superhuman intelligence available at their fingertips. I
imagine we will no longer be differentiable based on our articulacy or own
personal genius, which would effectively undermine the decade long mastery
that many people took to hone their crafts. I also wonder if people would
become more homogeneous as our own superintelligence shows us the faults in
our own eccentricities. The future of work, and creative work, which I find
most interesting, is kind of scary to speculate about. But, guess we'll just
have to see where the science takes us :)

~~~
icelancer
People would still need to desire to get better. This is a pretty lacking
trait in the majority of humanity.

~~~
nikkwong
That is so true. Something like this would be so enabling for someone like me
who has always had serious interest in complicated domains (physics,
complexity theory, etc..), but probably neither the mental facilities or
excess time to fully understand them. I wonder if these types of technologies
will pave a path to more easily 'downloading' and then understanding such
topics. That would totally change my life.

------
aws_ls
Can't wait for the day, when we can create a dump file of our experience -
equivalent of mp4, which has not just the sound and moving image but also
other things like smell, temperature and other bodily sensations. Its almost
like one of those Black Mirror episodes, in which you _experience_ stuff,
while just sitting on your sofa.

Pleasure industry should be one of the early adopters of this.

~~~
bem94
> Its almost like one of those Black Mirror episodes

I'd always thought of Black Mirror as a warning or reminder to consider the
wider consequences of technology. Not as a motivator to develop it faster.

The thought of this kind of technology (no matter how far away it really is
from being deployed) terrifies me. I certainly do not trust someone like Elon
Musk to develop it responsibly and pause to consider what it will do to _all_
of humanity. That's what is at stake here, the definition of humanity, for
better and worse.

~~~
kodz4
These stories have played out before. Maybe the best example is Oppenheimer vs
Edward Teller. There will always be an Edward Teller. Yet we still haven't
blown ourselves up. If you ask why and how you will find hope.

~~~
hatboat
If you're interested in the topic of this comment and its replies, consider
reading about the Vulnerable World Hypothesis [1].

I don't know how much credence to give it, however it's a fascinating thought
experiment, especially the "Type-1" vulnerabilities.

[1]
[https://nickbostrom.com/papers/vulnerable.pdf](https://nickbostrom.com/papers/vulnerable.pdf)

~~~
ryacko
It ultimately seems to depend on collective discipline to avoid the quickest
options.

------
stonerri
A biorxiv paper on the neural sewing technology:
[https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2019/03/14/578...](https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2019/03/14/578542.full.pdf)
\- I believe the authors are now at Neuralink.

~~~
andygates
The stitching is interesting - there are lots of near-term implantables with
clinical benefits that this could benefit.

I'm less convinced by the overall concept of "I know kung fu", but easy deep
brain stimulation or cascade monitoring is probably enough to make a tidy
buck.

------
pmohun
Here's an article from Verge that seems to be from a journalist attending the
event: [https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/16/20697123/elon-musk-
neural...](https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/16/20697123/elon-musk-neuralink-
brain-reading-thread-robot)

------
throw20102010
A key aspect for me will be whether Neuralink can enable brain control
interfaces that don't require sending signals to muscles.

A key example that falls short is CRTL-labs' armband. I've seen a few demos
that allow you to "control a keyboard with your brain" while wearing the
armband. The only problem is that this setup requires you to move your hands
as if you were actually typing on a keyboard. If my hands have to move I might
as well use a real keyboard. I realize that there are some people that could
use CTRL-labs' armband, such as amputees, but it's not compelling to me.

If Neuralink can let me control a computer by visualizing words or something
similar instead of physically moving my hand then I'll call it a win.

~~~
m463
I thought the ctrl-labs stuff went beyond that. One of their demos had a phone
game that you could control without moving your hand at all.

They also talked about virtual arms, and there was one guy controlling nine
cursors simultaneously.

~~~
throw20102010
The CTRL-kit, which is the "real" product they have, uses electromyography,
which needs muscle activation to work, so something must twitch at a minimum
to send a signal. A good interface may enable controlling multiple things at
once, but they would all require muscle activity.

They may have other things in R&D. At least they are closer to having a real
product than Neuralink and they started their presentation on time at Re:MARS.

~~~
m463
_Neural interfaces_

 _One of my biggest “Wow!” moments of 2018 took place in the offices of neural
interface company CTRL-labs. Their demo involves someone playing the old
Asteroids computer game without touching a keyboard, using machine learning to
interpret the nerve signals that are sent to the hands. But it isn’t quite
what you think. Moving things in the digital realm without moving your hands
seems startling enough (though it’s worth remembering that it was once
considered remarkable to be able to read silently without moving your lips).
But that’s just the first stage. Essentially, users of this technology “grow”
another virtual hand, which they can move independently of their physical
hands. One of the researchers bowled me over when he said he was “working on
controlling nine cursors at once.” Gradually, then suddenly, our children will
interface with machines in deeper and deeper ways. Humanity is already going
cyborg (see trend 1); expect it to accelerate. Don’t fall into the trap of
thinking that AI will replace humans when it can be used even more powerfully
to augment them._

from [https://www.oreilly.com/ideas/gradually-then-
suddenly](https://www.oreilly.com/ideas/gradually-then-suddenly)

~~~
throw20102010
In the asteriods demo
([https://youtu.be/5Z5aZK2C3ew?t=711](https://youtu.be/5Z5aZK2C3ew?t=711)) the
only reason his fingers aren't moving a bunch is because the hand is flat on
the table and the table is pushing back. You can see his fingers twitch while
he's playing.

This is the biggest overselling point from them. The only people that can grow
a "virtual hand" are amputees. Everyone else simply has a shadow hand that
follows what their real hand does (or would do if there wasn't a restraint).
All of their control interfaces are coupled to what the shadow hand does-
i.e., if the shadow hand's index finger curls in, the spaceship spins to the
right in the game. In reality it's not a shadow hand they are sensing, but the
neurons that control the movement in your hand/arm.

It's a fact of biology that if you are reading nerve impulses from the arm,
then to control the computer _something_ must be happening in your arm. Every
motor neuron is connected to a muscle. The best we can get is a very sensitive
system where your arm doesn't move very much. You cannot (without a million
years of evolution) send signals to your arm without it moving. If you were to
cut the neurons off from the muscle, you could then send activations without
your arm moving. However, you would also lose physical movement ability, and
nobody is doing that (except for amputees).

~~~
colechristensen
I was under the impression that your fact of biology was false.

Specifically that the brain-muscle mapping isn't preprogrammed and the brain
learns to control what is there.

For example people with fully formed extra digits can just have a fully
functional extra finger.

This does get baked in pretty well but the adult brain can re-learn after a
catastrophic injury so it's not hard to believe you could figure out how to
add virtual appendages or entirely novel "extremities".

~~~
throw20102010
It's not false. You can't send an action potential down a motor neuron
connected to a muscle without a reaction from the muscle. Do not confuse the
neurons in your brain (which generate new connections all the time) with motor
neurons, which is what the CTRL-labs kit is sensing.

The brain does learn to control what is there, and what is there is attached
to your muscles. I'll say it again: the CTRL-labs kit works on
electromyography, which only works with muscle activity. You will not
magically grow new neurons in your arm that are dedicated sole to the control
of a computer.

------
PetitPrince
Considering that both cochear and retinal implants are currently in the 10s of
electrodes, that would be really cool if those tiny electrodes can be adapted
to that usage. That could lead in a significant bump in auditory/vidual
fidelity for the patient (currently they hear something that sounds to us like
out of a vocoder, and see something that looks probably like a quarter of a
gameboy display).

Of course the end goal would be to directly stimulate the sensory cortexes,
but we had decent trains before having decent planes.

------
voldacar
The Neuralink president said that the first human trials are aimed for 2020,
but before that he said that they use their thread arrays to record neural
data every day, and he described the experience of learning how to manipulate
the iphone app as "trippy".

So has this thing been implanted in even a single human? Or are his words just
conjecture? If not, what brains are they reading neural data from, animals?

~~~
slouch
Elon: "the monkey has been able to control a computer with its brain" after a
question about testing on animals and the ethics involved

~~~
Robotbeat
...and if this all really works, the ethics of uplifting animals. If monkeys
and cows, etc, can become intelligent via digital augmentation, it will seem
pretty grotesque to eat meat. I’m not a vegetarian, but that thought has me
reconsidering. Even if we’re a century or two away from that, it will be nice
to not be remembered as monstrously eating other potentially-intelligent
beings.

------
fabianhjr
Take into account Elon's time dilation, the livestream presentation hasn't
started yet.

Edit: IRL Presentation hasn't started either (
[https://twitter.com/RebeccaDRobbins/status/11513308672324321...](https://twitter.com/RebeccaDRobbins/status/1151330867232432128)
)

~~~
krick
What's that supposed to mean? Is Musk notorious for being late or smth?

~~~
thsowers
Indeed! My friends often refer to his published event times as being in "EST"
or "Elon Standard Time", which we consider to be +/\- a few half hours of the
listed time

------
pfista
Elon just said the primary purpose of the announcement tonight was to attract
top talent.

------
camjohnson26
Live impressions by a neuroscientist on Twitter:
[https://twitter.com/analogist_net/status/1151351005562359809](https://twitter.com/analogist_net/status/1151351005562359809)

~~~
buboard
or rather, live criticism.

Here is a better, non-snarky review:

[https://twitter.com/AndrewHires/status/1151362187312582658](https://twitter.com/AndrewHires/status/1151362187312582658)

~~~
Ajedi32
Very cynical indeed, but his overall conclusion seems to be positive:
[https://twitter.com/analogist_net/status/1151396253692907522](https://twitter.com/analogist_net/status/1151396253692907522)

------
buboard
Their implant sounds impressive . I m not sure about their answer about
plasticity though. IIRC , previous implants like the braingate had issue with
the tuning of neurons shifting over time, requiring patients to retrain the
model.

~~~
defterGoose
Yeah, that's a super interesting area of the whole bundle of tech they talked
about. Obviously, years of in-situ research are the only way to prove anything
out, but the brain is so complicated it definitely seems like there could be
higher order effects between the input/output sides where the brain is
rerouting and working around the fairly "static" model that the chip/backend
is using. In other words, is there any reason to think that neurons will start
flipping their axons around when they detect potentially alien inputs? The
cells themselves are obviously capable of this whereas the electrodes are
static physical objects.

------
narrator
As the plain black lettering, "livestream will begin shortly", prosaically
displayed across the laptop screen, the laptop's fan whirred away drudging
through another hot summer month. The world was about to change, but few
expected it. Meanwhile, on the other end of the line, things were unexpectedly
delayed.... <cue spooky music>

~~~
0xDEFC0DE
They demo'd the neuralink interface before the livestream started.
Unfortunately a rogue AI took control of everyone.

------
m0zg
Iain Banks would be pleased, were he still alive. To the uninitiated: Musk is
quite obviously a fan of The Culture sci-fi series by Iain Banks. This right
here device is called "neural lace" in the series. The series is quite
possibly the finest example of the genre that I've ever read, and it's way
ahead of its time.

~~~
lloydde
I remember watching one or maybe two interviews of Mr Musk at one of the
iteration of the Kara Swisher and Walt Mossberg conferences, I think it was
All Things Digital. To the delight of the audience, Mr Musk described two or
three technologies right out of Iain Banks’ books including using the term
neural lace. At the time I had recently read the books, so I immediately
recognized the one book, but it escapes me now. I don’t think Mr Musk
acknowledged the connection, but there or another interview he talked about
deep conversations with his brother on sci fi topics.

~~~
m0zg
The names of SpaceX barges are inspired by the series as well. One of the
central protagonists in the series are enormous sentient spaceships that far
outstrip humans in intelligence (and firepower, naturally). They have long
names like "Of Course I Still Love You".

------
molly-millions
I can safely say I will never do this to myself. There's no advantage at all.
Technology just isn't compelling enough.

Even if I could close my eyes, tense my brow, and with a wiggle of my nose,
launch an army of autonomous drones to hoist a nuclear tipped cruise missile
from a launch tube, and point it at some world leader, what a puny plan. And
the reality is, that's not the way this will go for me.

This isn't going to be the kind of thing that gets us ahead. If anything, this
is the _T-Mobile Sidekick_ of cybernetics. And even when the new iPhone of
cybernetic neural interfaces emerge, it's still going to fucking suck.

We're 10,000 light years from the kind of thing I'd find compelling. Hard
pass.

~~~
fudged71
Light years is a measure of distance not time

------
c1b
Musk just (unexpectedly?) announced that the team has been able to make a
monkey control a computer with its mind...

Wow, I would love to see this in action...

~~~
buboard
this wouldnt be a first, people have done that before with Utah arrays,
including with human patients.

------
themodelplumber
I tried listening in and there were a lot of really intuitively strung-
together tangents, each of which could be considered its own separate
knowledge domain. I guess I'd say it was very ADHD-friendly, practically an
ADHD machine, in that way. I had to give up on the video for now because I
kept losing the thread while wondering about this tangent or that one. Will
look for a summary later. (I do like that the corresponding gift of Musk's,
the connective, big-picture thinking, is being made to work for its money
though)

------
eggy
I remember demoing a game back in the 90s where you placed a headband on and
controlled a stone on screen to cause it to rise and then maintaining its
altitude. I’m sure it was very simple, however the germ was planted about
mind/machine interfaces in me a while ago. I had read Neuromancer previously
and this seemed the zeitgeist along with the 90s being the ‘Decade of the
Brain’. I had read Patricia Churchland’s book The Computational Brain, and the
take off of neural networks and wet interfaces was all the buzz.

~~~
Benjammer
There were a bunch of "alpha brain waves" toys for a minute there a while
back. A friend of mine had the Star Wars Jedi one where you put a device on
your head and then it detects "alpha waves" and controls a small fan in a
clear plastic tube that "levitates" a ball. We figured out eventually that you
could pin the thing to the max by reading a book while wearing the device, you
didn't actually have to focus directly on the ball.

~~~
eggy
Yes, it was an alpha brain wave toy. I found the visual feedback to me being
able to affect my body state strangely exciting. I can see how the
Transhumanist movement is fueled by experiences and technologies such as
these.

------
DevKoala
I am excited thinking of all the type of experiences NeuraLink will enable. I
am confident it will still take another decade, but the video games of the
future will be wild.

------
scottlegrand2
I'd be more interested in the immediate application of improving cochlear
implant technology with these threads. But then I'm deaf in one ear so I'm
biased.

------
midnightdiesel
I'm glad this tech is starting to move along, but, boy, is this stuff at a
crude and barbaric level. I can't imagine putting this crap in my head.

------
ArchD
For a paralyzed person trying to use Neuralink to control an external device,
how does the neural signal decoding distinguish between just thinking of a
movement and the actual volition of that movement? You would not want to
actuate the external device just because the user is thinking of the movement
(e.g. from reading a book, watching a video, or planning for the future).

~~~
natosaichek
As long as that activity is part of the training corpus for the neural
interpreter it shouldn't be a problem. Just make sure you put in controls
during training links any other machine learning system.

------
turnerc
Their projection dates seem a little far fetched, to have a clinical trial by
2020 without yet having started an FDA process

~~~
whymauri
Far fetched is an under-statement. It's not possible unless they're planning
to do human trials of some non-invasive technology related to the larger
product.

~~~
otoburb
This is not a drug, but medical device technology. Therefore, I believe this
would qualify for the FDA's pre-market Breakthrough Device Program[1]
clearance which, if I'm reading the guidelines correctly, says they can have
an expedited decision within 45-60 days from submission[2].

This is under the umbrella of the FDA's Medical Device Safety Action Plan[3]
overhaul.

[1] [https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/how-study-and-market-
you...](https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/how-study-and-market-your-
device/breakthrough-devices-program)

[2]
[https://www.fda.gov/media/108135/download](https://www.fda.gov/media/108135/download)

[3] [https://www.fda.gov/about-fda/cdrh-reports/medical-device-
sa...](https://www.fda.gov/about-fda/cdrh-reports/medical-device-safety-
action-plan-protecting-patients-promoting-public-health)

------
MoronInAHurry
If this goes like The Boring Company reveal a couple of months ago, I expect
them to show off a 640x480 CRT monitor.

~~~
killjoywashere
gotta link to that?

~~~
MoronInAHurry
The hyperloop references seem misguided, but otherwise this about covers it:
[https://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-says-hyperloop-tunnel-is-
now-...](https://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-says-hyperloop-tunnel-is-now-just-a-
normal-1835024474)

------
CptFribble
Any word on whether they've solved the glial response problem?

Brain implants almost always end up useless long-term because they are
attacked and surrounded as foreign objects by the brain's defense system.

I admittedly skimmed the neural sewing paper, but from what I saw there wasn't
anything new in there about preventing this.

~~~
abrichr
They mention this in the video, they are solving it by making the implants
extremely small and having similar material properties to the brain.

------
JesseMReeves
There has been research in using massive amounts of neural recordings to infer
the underlying sensory cognitive neural network this year:

[https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/553255v2](https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/553255v2)

[https://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1162/neco_a_0121...](https://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1162/neco_a_01211)

[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016502701...](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165027019301761)

If that neural lace materializes there will be a lot of new material for that
particular mental playground.

------
jayzee
[https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/11/26/how-to-
control...](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/11/26/how-to-control-a-
machine-with-your-brain)

------
fabianhjr
The thing that most excites me about a breaktrough in BCI technology is its
possible applications for Brain-to-Brain interfaces a la Asimov (I / We /
Gaia) or Ramez Naam (Nexus 5; Very similar to what Neuralink talked about
circa 2017)

~~~
defterGoose
I've been reading "Carbide Tipped Pens" which is a collection of 17 Hard sci-
fi short stories. One of them has a very similar idea. Can't remember which
one but I'll post the author if I remember later.

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londons_explore
Why aren't these implants based from designs of CMOS camera sensors?

Take a CMOS sensor, and put a metal spike on top of every pixel (easy with
current processes). Now you have 10 million measurements that you can take at
240fps...

~~~
Robotbeat
Because you need to be inside the brain, not just on the surface. And the
electrodes need to be flexible, not stiff spikes. So with those constraints,
their current approach makes sense. They’ll get to millions of electrodes in
the future.

~~~
londons_explore
Spikes that are under 1um thick end up being very flexible.

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sebringj
The potential of this...You could wire up a group of dancers and everyone
would mimic the lead dancer perfectly. China would absolutely love to engineer
a feeling of nationalism that would be always switched on and monitored.
People could have telepathic sex. You could pay for NBA All Brain Access and
feel what it's like to dunk as LeBron, live. Your speech could be auto-
corrected as well as your outlook in life through your AI personality filter.
You could switch between cartoon theme and real-life theme as you go about
your day. Healthy food could taste amazing...

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snake117
Neuralink has a very impressive founding team and I have been periodically
checking their homepage for any updates. I am excited to see what they have
been working on for all this time.

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sjg007
Ok. so "sewing machine" is a robot to place sensors without hitting blood
vessels. These sensors have some wires that are attached to an induction loop
of some kind for recording. Seems feasible. Density is variable and probably
dependent on brain region (speculative). I imagine the next step is deep
learning to classify neural/sensor patterns into specific actions.

~~~
fudged71
Yes exactly. They showed an iphone screenshot of the training process. They
also need to make the device wireless (the current device is not).

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ilaksh
This was such an interesting and inspiring presentation. After watching it, I
actually think that CD Projekt should change the title of their video game --
bump the year a decade or two. Maybe Cyberpunk 2050?

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billconan
Totalitarianism countries will use this to take surveillance and censorship to
a new level. Now, people can't speak freely. In the future, people will not be
able to think freely ...

~~~
RomanBob
People can't think clearly now. They are clouded always with bias and the
limitation of the neurobiology.

Powerful tools can be used for both good and bad.

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Thaxll
Any quick explanation of what they do before the stream starts?

~~~
melvinmt
Elon Musk talks a bit about it in the infamous Joe Rogan podcast:
[https://youtu.be/ycPr5-27vSI?t=1124](https://youtu.be/ycPr5-27vSI?t=1124)

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JabavuAdams
From the video -- do they have the capability to fab custom silicon on a small
scale? What kinds of setups / suppliers are there / order of magnitude price?

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grewil2
My collegue once managed to fry a computer through the USB-port. I wonder what
would happen if you accidently fed too much power to this brain USB-port.

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wumms
"Check PSU Cable" :)

01:32:19
[https://youtu.be/r-vbh3t7WVI?t=5539](https://youtu.be/r-vbh3t7WVI?t=5539)

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dchichkov
Impressive. 3072 channels is likely sufficient to pass very reach embeddings.
At a level of a long sentence or a small image.

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LukeB42
Who thinks Elon Musk is going to walk around with one of these in a world full
of hackers who aren't buying it?

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Papirola
reminds me of the movie Brainstorm (1983)
[https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085271/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085271/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1)

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c8g
so, it is like one step closer to movie Upgrade (2018)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upgrade_(film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upgrade_\(film\))

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um_ya
They should use holography light instead of probes
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awADEuv5vWY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awADEuv5vWY)

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dantheman
This is fantastic!

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angel_j
I predict a surgical procedure.

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_bxg1
Hard pass from me.

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zakki
Skip to 1:30:00

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cVwEq
For all the criticisms of Musk, and recent wackiness, it's moments like these
that I thank our lucky stars that there are people like him on this earth. It
just seems like these days there are so few people thinking about the long-
term future of the human race.

I love it that his solution to the "AI terminator" problem is making a brain-
computer interface so that we can have a fighting chance when AI takes off.

I love it that he wants to help us kick our addiction to non-renewable fossil
fuels.

I love it that he wants to make us a two planet race so that we don't have all
our humanity eggs in one planetary basket.

Thank you Elon.

~~~
txcwpalpha
There are, and have been, many many people working on all of these problems
long before Elon Musk (the tech announced today at Neuralink is entirely built
on work that was done by people at UCSF and UC Berkeley, and even that is an
iteration on technology that was developed by scientists over the past several
decades). Neuralink the company was founded by _eight_ people other than Musk.
It's a huge disservice to all of these people to give Musk the credit for
their work.

Musk sits in a weird position where his unique blend of controversy keeps him
in the headlines and ensures he gets linked to these technologies, but that
does not mean he is responsible for nor deserves the credit. It could be
argued that his "ability" to constantly land in the limelight draws more
attention (and thus progress) to these issues, but others would argue that we
would be even further along if not for the constant controversy he creates.

~~~
SECProto
One speaker is a professor from UCSF who studied the brain's processing of
motor signals. He explicitly credited Musk for having the right vision and the
long term planning, and that's why he left his position after 16 years to come
work with Neuralink.

No one credits Musk for solving bugs with the software on his products, or
creating these brain-computer interfaces. But he can assemble the team to do,
and motivate them to keep moving and progressing pretty aggressive schedules.
And he frequently gives credit to his team (and doesn't sit there patting
himself on the back).

~~~
kranner
> And he frequently gives credit to his team (and doesn't sit there patting
> himself on the back).

Yes, the list of authors on the whitepaper they released is "Elon Musk &
Neuralink". I guess his team should be thankful.

[https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6204648-Neuralink-
Wh...](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6204648-Neuralink-White-
Paper.html)

~~~
buboard
thats a white paper , not the research paper (which is what ppl will read).
You can also read it the other way around: He wanted to credit the entire
Neuralink team, without claiming to be part if it or leading it

~~~
kranner
It would have read that way if the author list had simply said 'Neuralink'. He
is definitely positioning himself as the leader here.

~~~
frisco
BioArxiv required at least one human author. We suggested this author list to
him and, honestly, we just think it’s awesome.

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malicioususer11
pretty cool press conferance, but i dont think its going to take off until
Elon develoos Genital Link. :3

