
Radioactivity in Antiques - nowandlater
https://www.epa.gov/radtown/radioactivity-antiques
======
dhosek
Even more widespread and arguably of greater risk is the widespread use of
lead. I'd assumed that anything produced in the last twenty years or so would
be lead-free and it turns out I'd assumed wrong. Garden hose fixtures often
contain lead [1], and there are recalls of popular toys with red or yellow
paint [2]. And this is just going through what's still in my browser history.

[1] [https://ideas.time.com/2012/08/02/is-your-garden-hose-
toxic/](https://ideas.time.com/2012/08/02/is-your-garden-hose-toxic/) [2]
[https://tamararubin.com/2018/09/reminder-june-2007-thomas-
th...](https://tamararubin.com/2018/09/reminder-june-2007-thomas-the-tank-
engine-wooden-toy-recall/)

~~~
throwaway0a5e
Lead that is alloyed to other metals for ease of machining isn't going to get
into anyone in meaningful quantity since it's alloyed into something strong
and wear resistant. Even lead in potable water plumbing is a non-issue so long
as you don't pull a Flint and let it dissolve. Paint is a far bigger issue
since it wears much faster releasing much more lead. But as long as you
weren't raised in house full of it you're probably fine.

Modern plastics of various varieties contain far more suspicious molecules
IMO.

~~~
dhosek
From the linked article: "One in three hoses tested had levels of lead that
exceeded drinking water standards — one as high as 18 times the level."

~~~
throwaway0a5e
The standard for lead in drinking water is set where it is so a kid can drink
the tap water from day 1 and not suffer any ill effects. There are
municipalities all over the country delivering water that meets these
standards through some amount of lead or leaded fittings.

In light of that it seems disingenuous to complain that a hose (as opposed to
the water coming out of the hose) has 18x that much lead. If the lead has no
reasonably means by which it will get into someone then what's the big deal?

I'm not saying I want more lead but you gotta pick your battles when it comes
to chemically. Anything is bad if you have enough exposure. If the amount of
lead people are exposed to is not gonna have any effect in their lifetime then
lets check that box and move on to the next chemical.

~~~
thatcat
Any amount of lead is harmful, just because you don’t notice the effects
doesn’t mean there are none.

~~~
throwaway0a5e
How is something harmful if the effects are below a measurable threshold?

And before you say "well if you construct a study and have a control group,
etc, etc", yes, ok, fine, you can measure really small changes that way. What
happens when the harm is below the noise threshold of that too?

There's a million things in our world that are gonna give us cancer or
whatever in 50yr. Having some lead painted antique trinket that sits on a
shelf or leaded brass in your hose nozzle isn't going to harmfully affect
anyone if it's practically your only voluntary exposure. It's like smoking one
cigarette once. Sure it's not good for you but it's also not going to be what
kills you.

~~~
wahern
> How is something harmful if the effects are below a measurable threshold?

AFAIU, the claim in the literature is that nobody has found a dosage _without_
a measurable effect, at least at population scale. Now, that may simply be
because nobody has setup a study to test a dosage at the limits of what can be
measured. But in any event the claim is based on numerous studies that
postdate most quantitative lead level thresholds. Those regulatory thresholds
haven't been updated because the consensus opinion now, in light of the
believed mechanism of action in neurological tissue and epidemiological data,
is that any ingestion can potentially have a lasting, detrimental impact,
however slight; and the consensus goal, however aspirational, is to eliminate
_all_ lead exposure during developmentally critical years.

Punching somebody in the head might not cause any meaningful, discernible
damage, but nobody is suggesting it's benign, and nobody is going to invest
any effort to determine the minimum impact force or number of impacts below
which damage is indiscernible or nonexistent. You just aim to avoid all
punches to the head, period. Any quantitative thresholds, such as number of
known concussions, are simply designed to help allocate limited resources for
aggressive interventions. The same is true for lead--preexisting federal and
state blood lead levels are designed (or rather reconstrued, ex post) to be a
trigger for intervention, not a threshold below which we presume the absence
of damage. It's an important distinction.

Of course, it's understood that lead is not only pervasive in the natural
environment, but in our industrial processes and especially in our built
environment. That's why Federal law _deliberately_ declassified lead as
hazardous waste--to make it cheaper and easier to remove and dispose of post
haste. Contrast that with asbestos or other hazardous, sometimes more benign,
substances.

I remember when everybody on HN complained about the EU banning leaded solder.
I think most of the complaints missed the point--there is no safe level for
lead in the environment considering its effect on neurological development. We
can't objectively set a specific level that we can honestly, _knowingly_ live
with as a society, so the policy is simply to slowly, methodically remove it
as best we can.

------
serf
Vaseline/uranium glass is _cool_ looking. I have a few display pieces.

Another source of radioactive antiques are things made of jadeite.

safe bet that anything older then 40 years old, glass or glass-like, and
florescent is probably doped with something unsafe -- but they still make
wonderful trophies.

Sadly my military USSR watch with radium painted arms has faded away and no
longer glows. The machined trefoil on the back lid of it is still pretty cool,
though.

Also, the article mentions it briefly, but radiation is one of the things to
worry about _least_ when using vintage ceramic goods. Those glazes are jam-
packed with metals that are well known to be carcinogenic now-a-days.

~~~
adammunich
It's still very radioactive and putting new silver-activated zinc sulphide
phosphor on the dials (a risky proposition) will make it glow again.

------
vharuck
Women who painted the watches and other things with radium to make them glow
in the dark became known as "radium girls."

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_Girls](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_Girls)

They were told it was safe, so some even intentionally painted their teeth.

~~~
ortusdux
They were trained to twirl the paintbrush between their lips to bring it to a
fine point before picking up more paint.

------
gammarator
I once had my home swept for radioactive materials (long story). After the
inspectors finished a few hours of trying to distinguish a few Geiger counter
clicks from the natural background, the lead tech pulled a small orange
Fiestaware bowl out of his bag. "Did you know these are hot?" he asked, and
put it up next to the wand. The Geiger counter just screamed, which was both
alarming and reassuring given the context.

~~~
eindiran
Older Fiesta dinnerware (especially in red) is quite famous for having Uranium
in the glaze prior to World War 2, which was then confiscated for the war
effort. I believe they then returned to using Uranium in the glaze after the
war for a few years.

You can see one being checked with a geiger counter here:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmDKbVUbsnk&t=394s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmDKbVUbsnk&t=394s)

[EDIT] This is covered in some detail on the wiki page:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiesta_(dinnerware)#Radioactiv...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiesta_\(dinnerware\)#Radioactive_glazes)

------
sixstringtheory
Heard about Radithor, and old energy drink containing radium, on a podcast a
while back:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radithor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radithor)

> Eben Byers, a wealthy American socialite, athlete, industrialist and Yale
> College graduate, died from Radithor radium poisoning in 1932. Byers was
> buried in a lead-lined coffin; when exhumed in 1965 for study, his remains
> were still highly radioactive.

Apparently the bottles are still collectors' items.

------
rwhitman
My parents were antique collectors. They were very proud of a glow-in-the-dark
fireman's helmet circa 1940's that my dad bought. They told me it was radium
paint and to keep away from it.

I will say it does it's job. That helmet was still glowing in the dark just
fine

~~~
blendergeek
Did it glow continuously or only for a few minutes after exposure to light? A
sibling comment has suggested that it wasn't actually radium paint.

------
timw4mail
Some photographic lenses have throrium[1] glass. Even though it is mildly
radioactive, it's pretty safe to use.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoriated_glass](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoriated_glass)

~~~
lm28469
Some viewfinder are made with thoriated glass too, which is much more
problematic because they blast alpha rays straight to your eye while in use.

Lenses, as you pointed, are safe: [http://www.diva-
portal.org/smash/get/diva2:652338/FULLTEXT01...](http://www.diva-
portal.org/smash/get/diva2:652338/FULLTEXT01.pdf) I'd avoid dropping/breaking
one indoor though.

~~~
timw4mail
Which cameras had thoriated glass for their viewfinders?

------
Jeema101
Here is an interesting article I found a while ago on this subject by a
vintage watch collector who took some measurements of his radium dial watches
using a Geiger counter:

[https://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/luminous.php](https://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/luminous.php)

The dose rates that he measured varied considerably depending on the watch.
One very radioactive one was about ~30 times the background dose rate with the
glass off and in very close proximity. Probably not something you'd want to
wear on your wrist every day...

~~~
s1artibartfast
I think it would still be pretty safe to wear every day

Whole body Ambient radiation dose is about 0.3 rem/year. You could assume your
wrist is about 1% of this or 0.003 rem. 30x would be 0.09 rem.

The OSHA safety limit is 75 rem per year to the hands of workers, which is
about 800x higher than the watch.

------
radiateaway
Apparently David Hahn used the radium paint from old clocks to make a neutron
gun for irradiating his DIY nuclear reactor.

If you haven't heard about that, it's a remarkable story about a precocious
kid who could put Ferris Bueller to shame. He cons material supply companies,
gets arrested for stealing smoke detectors, and single-handedly creates a
superfund site. And in the end, he gets to fulfill his dream of working with
nuclear energy by serving on a nuclear aircraft carrier.

Honestly, it reads like a movie script and makes me ashamed of how I
squandered my youth:

[https://harpers.org/archive/1998/11/the-radioactive-boy-
scou...](https://harpers.org/archive/1998/11/the-radioactive-boy-scout/)

Also, if you can find a PDF of "The Golden Book of Chemistry Experiments"
which that article occasionally quotes...wow. How did kids survive the '70s?
Page 35, "making chlorine gas in the home lab"...

------
throwaway189262
Missing from this list are some historical and modern sources.

This EPA page has a better list [https://www.epa.gov/radiation/what-kinds-
consumer-products-c...](https://www.epa.gov/radiation/what-kinds-consumer-
products-contain-radioactive-materials)

Missing from both is radioactive electronics. In lamps, electron sources,
spark gaps, it's common to use radioactive materials to make ionization
easier. In a lamp for example this would make it start at lower voltage

[https://instructional-
resources.physics.uiowa.edu/demos/7d30...](https://instructional-
resources.physics.uiowa.edu/demos/7d3046-fluorescent-lights-radioactive-
starter-ballasts)

[https://www.orau.org/ptp/collection/consumer%20products/elec...](https://www.orau.org/ptp/collection/consumer%20products/electrontubes.htm)

------
sigsergv
There are also old smoke detectors that contain alpha-emitting americium.

[https://www.epa.gov/radtown/americium-ionization-smoke-
detec...](https://www.epa.gov/radtown/americium-ionization-smoke-detectors)

~~~
geerlingguy
Those are common and still sold everywhere (I have 6 of them around my house).
As long as you don't chop up your smoke detector or try eating it, it's not a
big risk.

------
01100011
The danger from radiation in these products is so low it shouldn't be a
problem unless you ingest or inhale it.

------
jungletime
radon gas map
[https://cdn.treehouseinternetgroup.com/cms_images/509/radon-...](https://cdn.treehouseinternetgroup.com/cms_images/509/radon-
zones-epa-map.jpg)

