
Ask HN: Living overseas with a profitable online business - SteveC
I am a UK citizen with a profitable online business. I have no real responsibilities other than that and I would like to try living in a few different countries for a while before I have to settle in one place. My web business means I can work from anywhere as long as I have an Internet connection. Has anyone here in a similar situation tried this? What sort of hurdles did you face with visas? How was tax handled? Did earning your money online make things easier or complicate matters?
======
jacquesm
I've done it for a couple of years (5 in all), from the Netherlands to Canada.

It cost an arm and a leg, but I wouldn't have missed it for the world.

As for taxes, the rule in my case was that as soon as I spent more than half a
year per year in the one country that one became the one where I paid my
taxes.

I did create a corporation in Canada in order to have a bigger footprint and
to help with the immigration process. Eventually moved back to Europe because
the immigration process seemed to take for ever (of course, two weeks after
letting everybody go and moving back to Europe we received permission to
become landed immigrants).

I wouldn't do it again with the same country, but really, it was a very nice
time.

If an opportunity presents itself to move abroad again I'll probably take it
(as long as it is not the USA or Canada).

Nothing broadens your horizons and teaches you stuff than moving to different
places on the planet.

Asia in 2013? Who knows ;)

Earning money online made stuff considerably easier, it meant that no matter
how rotten the local economy was there was always food on the table and
transportation.

Health insurance is different per country so you'd better check in to that in
serious detail before you make your move, there can be all kinds of
limitations and liabilities if you mess that up.

~~~
muhfuhkuh
But, I keep hearing and reading all of these "horror stories" about people
waiting up to even TEN YEARS for immigration applications to get approval,
particularly in Canada. The minimum I've read has always been over a year's
wait, which still seems really long to me in this age of instant
gratification.

Did you just go to those places as a visitor and lived there while applying
for a more permanent residency or did you do a temporary work visa or
something else?

These questions coming from an American wanting to immigrate to Canada as a
first choice, but is seriously looking at S and SE Asia as well.

~~~
jacquesm
Ten years is not that bad actually, I can point you to a family that has been
living there for 30 years and they still don't have their status.

As for the process, there are different 'routes', I picked the
entrepreneur/investor route through the Buffalo office, I was / am fairly well
connected and in spite of all that (and employing a bunch of people and some
major investments).

My visum was a temporary work permit until landed immigrant status would be
given but I never reached that stage.

Canadian immigration usually was quite ok when dealing with them at the
airport (once every two weeks for two years), but I've had my frustrating
encounters too, with hours of waiting to be sent on my way within 2 minutes of
it being 'my turn'. Road crossings were a mixed bag, sometimes no problem at
all, sometimes a big hassle when someone decided to pretend they're guarding
Canada from all those Dutch terrorists they've been having lately.

We ended up going back because we had had enough of it. The schools in the
area where we lived (rural Northern Ontario) didn't help either and the
weather is simply brutal out there.

But again, I do not regret having done this, it gave me a completely new
perspective on life and living.

------
andreshb
It seems to me all the answers so far make it look far more complicated than
what it actually is.

What I've done is just travel as tourist staying in each country around 3
months.

When I "lived" in Chile I just took weekend 'visa vacations' to Argentina and
had my stay extended for another 90 days.

Nothing changed in terms of taxes for me, since I never really become resident
of another country.

Earning money online definitely makes things easier since you never have to be
paid as a local in whatever country you are at, therefore, not working there
illegally or anything like that.

I am not sure how much money your online business makes you, but I usually aim
for developing countries, where you can easily live on US $800 - $1200 tops a
month. Like bradleyjoyce said I would recommend Latin America. I've
lived/traveled/worked in Colombia, Chile, Peru, Argentina, Mexico.

Also, very important, make sure you have someone reliable back home that can
help you deal with administrative/misc., stuff like depositing a check,
receiving important mail, faxing stuff, and the sort of things you may not be
able to do online.

~~~
metastew
How did you like living in Peru? I've thought about getting an apartment there
for a short while and work on developing my business.

~~~
andreshb
Peru is beautiful, but I'm not a fan of Lima's weather (think seattle). So for
travel+fun I'd recommend just landing in Lima and going elsewhere in the
mountains. If I did not have to recruit engineers, meet entrepreneurs or do
biz dev, I'd def. stay in Cusco for a while.

The food and transportation is very affordable, and really really cheap if you
don't go to the touristy restaurants and instead head to el mercado
(marketplace). You can get a full meal with soup, drink and dessert for like
US$.60-$1

Now, if you want to meet fellow hackers/entrepreneurs and recruit incredible
talent, check out <http://limavalley.com> the startup/tech community in Peru.

~~~
SteveC
The domain name seems to be wrong or expired.

~~~
andreshb
You are right (I know my comment is old) but just in case,here is the correct
url <http://lima-valley.com/>

------
gommm
I've been doing that for a few years now, first working in Japan, then living
for some time in Malaysia, Thailand and China before deciding on settling here
for some time..

For Japan, I was working there for a Japanese company so it's a bit
different...

For visas in Malaysia and Thailand, I just switched between both countries for
2-3 months at a time (but stayed more in Malaysia), so I didn't need a visa
for such a short time (as a french citizen). Since, my official country of
residence at the time was france, I didn't have to pay any taxes. One word of
caution, after one year of doing that it started becoming harder to get in
Malaysia... So, it's not a long term solution...

For China, I've been here under a business visa. According to Chinese law, as
long as I'm not a permanent resident (stayed more than 5 years with less than
90 days each year out of the country), I don't have to pay taxes on income
outside of China.

Regarding health care, I'm using this insurance www.aplusii.com It's aimed at
expats, costs 300 euros/months for me and my wife and covers us everywhere in
the world except US and Canada (and then it does cover us there in case of
accidents). I found them through a broker and would recommend you to consult
one just to make sure you are covered in case of problems.

To keep costs low, it's a good idea to try and rent apartments for at least
one month in each location instead of going to hotels. You get a better view
of how people actually live there and it's much cheaper.

You can contact me if you have any questions (or decide to drop by in
Shanghai), my email is in my profile.

~~~
borism
_> Since, my official country of residence at the time was france, I didn't
have to pay any taxes._

I'm sorry, but I have hard time believing that. Since you were still a
resident of France I'm sure you have to pay some tax to France in some shape
or form.

~~~
glenngillen
Being a resident and being a tax resident are two completely different things.
There are a few Asian countries (I believe Thailand) is one where you only pay
tax on income if you're classified as a permanent resident. If you're on
something like a 90 day business visa then Thai tax laws don't apply.

Contrast that with somewhere like the UK where you're deemed a tax resident
only if you've been resident in the country for >= 178 days in the financial
year (regardless of visa status). Combine the two scenarios, carefully
managed, you can greatly reduce the amount of tax you pay.

It cuts both ways though. Somewhere like Australia which has a different tax
year to the UK and it's possible to incur a tax liability in _both_ the UK and
Australia. You'd need to submit a return in both places, thankfully they have
a tax treaty with each other to avoid paying double but you'll still need to
submit returns to both.

But back to the OP, it's exactly this kind of approach wealthy individuals use
to avoid paying taxes. Claim tax residence in a country that only wants your
money if you're actually living there, live somewhere else that only wants
your money if you're earning it in that country.

------
valentin
This article is pretty interesting:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/aejc4/i_work_through_a...](http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/aejc4/i_work_through_a_laptop_travel_365_daysyear_to/)

"I started freelancing in LAMP development 7 years ago. 4 years ago I started
taking camping trips around my own country (Australia) & working via Wifi/3G.
I soon started making little overseas trips, which got bigger & bigger. In
November 2008 I sold my stuff & 'left'; I haven't been home since. I usually
work 1 hour/day thanks to the weaker currencies of most places I visit. In
richer countries, I work 2-3 hours. 3G modems & hotel WiFi keep me connected,
an Australian SkypeIn # forwards to the mobile of whatever country I'm in at
the time, Skype lets me call clients when necessary. I'm currently in Nepal
having just got out of Tibet. I'm trying to get from Singapore to London
without any planes (southern route --> SE-
Asia->China->(Tibet)->Nepal->India->Pakistan->Iran->Turkey->Europe). AMA."

------
aeden
I just recently moved from the US, where my own company is based, to France,
where my wife is from. I am still learning about the complications, but I can
tell you of some of the challenges I've already dealt with:

Currency exchange: rates fluctuate on a regular basis and that makes budgeting
a challenge. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose depending on how the
currencies move.

Insurance: health insurance by a provider that is outside your country of
residence is going to result in some hurdles. You'll have to pay close
attention to what your providers rules are for coverage outside of your
country.

Visas: as long as you only stay long enough to stay qualified as a visitor
then visas are probably going to be a non-issue. Once you exceed the amount of
time allowed as a visitor then you have to deal with that countries rules for
visas and they differ from country to country.

Cash, check and credit: acceptance of credit cards and checks in foreign
countries will very. Banks tend to charge fees for withdrawing money in other
countries so be prepared to eat those fees. Often it is easiest to just use
cash, so take enough to get started and have a plan on how to get more while
you're there, i.e. figure out where the cash machines are, if they accept your
cards and what the fees are.

Tax: IANAL nor am I an accountant or tax specialist and I am not sure how it
works in the UK. Having said that, the US is a bit odd in that they tax their
citizens worldwide, so no matter where I live I will have to pay US taxes. If
I am a resident in another country then I'll likely have to pay taxes there as
well and then try to get a credit in the US for taxes paid overseas. It's
still early for me on this one so I'm not sure exactly how taxes will pay out.

I hope this helps. Basically my suggestion is retain your UK residence and
take extended "vacations" in countries you want to visit - it'll be a lot less
of a hassle then trying to immigrate.

~~~
pmjordan
_I hope this helps. Basically my suggestion is retain your UK residence and
take extended "vacations" in countries you want to visit - it'll be a lot less
of a hassle then trying to immigrate._

You will want to be very, _very_ careful with that. I'm neither a lawyer nor
an accountant, but the tax rules for US citizens are very different from
pretty much everyone else. Tax authorities will generally _not_ be happy if
you try to pay no tax locally and send it all home. The rule is typically that
you pay tax where you spend the most number of days of that tax year. No idea
what happens when tax years for natural persons don't overlap (UK has April-
April, many countries have calendar years) - in my case I didn't earn any
money in the interim so it wasn't an issue.

Within the EU, you'll probably need to register your new residence as the, or
one of the company's offices where its business is conducted. You don't need
to register it as a business of that country, though, unless you're a sole
trader. Any salary or dividends you pay yourself will usually be subject to
local taxes, social security, health insurance and possibly other fees. Your
accountant(s) will need to tell you where the business pays tax on its
profits.

You may also require a permit for operating a business in that country. I did
(UK citizen, located in Austria), and although software development is usually
not regulated in the way the medical, legal and other professions are, I did
require a certificate of any record on the UK Police National Computer, or
rather lack of any record. This took almost 2 months and cost 10 pounds. I
managed to sweet-talk the bureaucrat in Austria into not requiring an official
translation, but the rule is that you do - this will add extra cost and time.

You may also require a residence permit, even within the EU. That too tends to
be a mere formality, but usually they want proof of earning enough to sustain
yourself. Not a problem if you're a UK limited company, you'll be used to your
income being a matter of public record anyway. I didn't need this in Vienna,
but a German friend in another State (Lower Austria) got an unpleasant visit
from the immigration police.

UK->EU specific, but: you can forget your E111 for anything but emergencies.
You'll probably be forced to get local health insurance (in Austria they write
to you and bill you as soon as you register the business) anyway.

Hopefully, you'll encounter less hassle - Austria is exceptionally hostile
towards the self employed, and taxes are insane.

~~~
jacquesm
For almost every set of countries in the 'matrix of possibilities' there is a
tax treaty in place these days, your local tax office should be able to tell
you quite a bit about the situation once you've settled on a country of your
choice.

------
bradleyjoyce
Since last May I've been spending increasing amounts of time in Perú doing
just that. Recently I've finally made the move more "permanent" as I've rented
a house here in Lima and plan on staying a least a year.

The easiest way to go about it is to maintain your permanent residence in your
home country and enter new countries as a tourist/visitor.

This officially means that you can't "work" in the country you are visiting.
However, as long as your clients are not local and you get paid to your bank
account in your home country, you should be ok.

I would highly recommend you review your tax situation for your country, and
especially the country you will be visiting if you want to stay longer than
their tourist/visitor visa allows.

I'm going through all this myself and have started blogging about it at
<http://expatentrepreneur.tv> ... A lot of other people blog about the expat
digital lifestyle. One I enjoy reading is <http://exilelifestyle.com> and he
has links to quite a few others.

I highly recommend South America to you... it has a fast-growing tech/startup
community (Chile, Brasil, Argentina, Peru) and there are tons of expats as
well.

If you make it to Peru feel free to look me up!

------
jscore
Don't try working from Brazil; I tried doing it, but I just spend the whole
year going out, partying and the beach. Never got any work done, but was the
best year of my life.

~~~
kroger
Or you can go to a place in Brazil where there is no Beach ;-) Just curious,
where in Brazil you went?

~~~
jscore
Rio de Janeiro. Highly recommended :)

------
philwelch
Check out expat forums--there are a whole host of countries (largely Latin
American) where you can live there on a tourist visa; every 90 days you take a
weekend trip to a neighboring country and get a new tourist visa. Since you
have an online business you won't be working in the local economy so work
authorizations and the like won't be a problem.

Also, these countries tend to be really cheap. I know a woman who lived off of
blog revenue in Costa Rica; mostly affiliate links to online gambling, which
isn't feasible ever since the US government outlawed online gambling.

~~~
cjlars
Another good source is online poker forums. The biggest is 2+2. Plenty of card
players have moved abroad and play remotely.

<http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/92/travel/>

------
elai
Well you can start a corporation in singapore, panama, labuan or others. All
foreign income not repatriated to singapore (i.e, it goes in a bank account in
HK instead of singapore) is tax free. Panama corporations do have any tax in
all income not derived from Panama. Labuan (in Malaysia) has an other low tax
structure.

To avoid UK (and Canadian) residents doing a run around on their tax system
with these corporations, any corporation who's 'top management' is majority
run by residents in the UK (or in the UK) is taxed as if it is a UK
corporation. Since your going to be away from the UK, you can remove your UK
resident status (you have to do this properly, they can get you with things
like still being registered to the NHS or having a residence in the UK still
that isn't purely investment property, etc, etc). Once you loose your UK
residence (you still stay as a UK citizen forever, your just not resident)
your corporation will not have that tax status in the UK, and you do not have
to pay taxes to the UK for your worldwide personal income. I don't know how it
works when you move around in the EU, it can be different.

You can then travel the world as a resident of nowhere and be mostly tax free,
with the majority of your income staying in your corporation, and drawing a
living expenses income from the corporation. How you want to structure that
income (being a corporate expense or personal income), and report it to the
country your currently in depends on you and what your doing. It being an
online business of you and your laptop, practically you'll not get any
problems from working online on whatever tourist visa your using, since it's
virtually undetectable and you don't really have to interact with their
economy locally. Especially if it is only for one or two visa stays and a
developing country. How you deal with that is up to you.

If you are going to plan which countries your going to, getting a tourist visa
before you leave at an embassy in the UK will be useful, since you can get
extra long visa stays vs the stamps you get arriving in the airport. For
example you could get a triple entry tourist visa from thailand for free which
would get you 3x2month stays in thailand. Your not going to get that from a
embassy anywhere near thailand, but somewhere far like the UK would be a lot
more likely.

For health insurance you can try to get an annual international travel
insurance policy if you want to be covered.

I am not a lawyer and you should do your own research, but I hope this helps.

------
csomar
Tunisia (My country) may be a good place for you. When re-searching on how to
start my own company, I found out that non-residents can easily form a company
over the Internet and submit all papers (even without being here). Taxes are
10% but if you sign before 2011, you'll pay no taxes for 10 years.

Here's the website in question:
<http://www.tunisianindustry.nat.tn/en/home.asp> It's in English and has lot
of useful information. There is a section for online services and they'll
answer your email within 24/48 hours. The cost is $100 or so, to form the
company.

Life in Tunisia is good but not that cheap. You'll also miss your reliable
Internet connection (though Water/Electricity are a lot reliable). The weather
and food are good. Public services sucks, so you'll need your own car (for
example), private medical care, ...

~~~
butu5
Tunisia (Few facts from wikipedia)

Northernmost country of Africa Official Language: Arab Second Language: French
Population(1st july 2009) : 10.3 million (appox)

Tunisia has an authoritarian regime in the guise of a procedural democracy led
by Zine El Abidine Ben Ali, who has governed as President since 1987 and has
systematically diminished freedom of press and political pluralism while
keeping appearances of democracy.

It also has one of Africa and the Middle East's highest per-capita GDPs (PPP)

------
gexla
I agree that other people here are making this more complicated than it has to
be. Just go from one place to another on a tourist visa for the country you
are visiting. Continue to pay takes in your home country and keep your work on
the down low in the country you are visiting. You would probably be walking
(if not crossing) some thin lines in regards to laws against working while on
a tourist visa but I doubt you would have to worry about getting caught.

The only thing I have really found difficult is dealing with payment issues.
Moving money in its many forms can be a pain. This is a big subject which is
highly personalized for each person, so I won't get into it here. Just make
sure you have a plan a, b and c for getting access to money and contacting
your family when problems appear.

------
John472
I'm quite in the same position like you (web business), I tried to go to the
US for one year, but the visa progress is hell, too over one year to first
tell us it is going to be ok, later revoking it. The US visa system is
seriously broken. Other than that issues, I think its a great idea.

~~~
ido

        The US visa system is seriously broken.
    

Seems like it from here too.

If I were the OP I'd stick to the EU, Australia or New Zealand (both of which
have fairly liberal immigration policies, especially for UK citizens).

------
goatforce5
If I found myself in your shoes, i'd probably be planning an itinerary with
one of the round the world tickets offered by the various airline alliances.
They're really good value and allow you to see a heck of a lot of the world.
And keep in mind you can use the round the world ticket to get to, say, Hong
Kong (I love it there - recommended) and then use local budget airlines to hop
between South East Asian countries over a few months, and then continue on
with your round the world ticket to Australia or elsewhere.

The round the world ticket more or less forces you to keep moving as it'll
only be valid for 12 months, and so you should be able to get by by just using
tourist visas in each country. After a year of hopping around the world you'll
be in a position to know whether you want to keep being a nomad, or if there
was somewhere you visited that you'd like to go back to a little more
permanently.

(Keep in mind that if you turn up to pretty much any country and say you
intend to stay for 1 or 3 months as a tourist they'll want to know that you
can support yourself - have your bank statements handy!)

But, yeah: go travel. Do it now before you start putting down roots. I once
bought a round the world ticket to do 12 months of backpacking. 14 years on
and i'm on my fourth country that i've 'permanently' settled in, with a fair
bit of traveling thrown in along the way.

~~~
jasonkester
Absolutely don't buy a RTW ticket.

Definitely go around the world, but do it by purchasing a single one-way
ticket. Travel overland as much as you can and when you hit the end of a
continent, buy another one-way ticket to the next.

There's nothing worse than having a date on a calendar. It will mess up your
trip over and over again, even if it's months in the future. Avoid dates at
all costs. Get to the first place and let things work themselves out from
there.

I've done 3 laps now, and the only regrets I've ever had have been things
skipped to catch a flight or meet somebody at a fixed time/place.

~~~
edge17
RTW tickets are cost effective. You can usually pay some extra money to
massage the dates, and it'll probably still be cheaper than buying tons of
tickets (at least when I bought one... not sure how the prices have changes
since)

~~~
jasonkester
Cost isn't what you're maximizing though. Sure, RTW ticket will run you $1500,
whereas three one-way tickets will cost upwards of $2000, but compared to the
$12k you'll spend all in, it's just not worth the constraint it places on you.

As an example, five years ago I started a trip that would start on the beach
in Thailand, then go up through China and follow the Silk Road across to
Turkey. 3 months in, I ended up detouring down to Australia to do a couple
month's surfing with a girl who I'd eventually follow back to England and
marry.

Had I booked, say, a flight from home from Istanbul ahead of time, I might not
have wanted to blow it off and follow that girl who I'd only known for a
month.

Traveling is all about freedom to do whatever you want with absolutely zero
constraints. Keep that in mind before you buy a piece of paper that forces you
to be _anywhere_ at a given time. Even if that anywhere is "Asia" and the
given time is "Sometime in the next six months". It's still a constraint, and
it will still mess things up.

------
MiltBaron
I'm a fellow Brit and I've been running my web biz whilst travelling for about
5 years and totally reccomend that you do it. The visa's taxes, and banking
thing can be tricky and is always changing but once you've made the jump it
only gets easier. I have been running my online businesses whilst travelling
around South East Asia and it totally rocks. mostly renting places in Thailand
as a base (and once you have an address you can get a local bank account and
other stuff) then because of the different visa rules you have to leave the
country every 2-3 months anyway which I like as it sort of forces me to travel
more and discover the other places around South East Asia that also support
theis lifestyle, Bali, The Phlippines, Malaysia, Singapore, even places that
are lesser developed like Laos still have solid internet connections and it is
possiable anywhere. The obvious massive bonus is how far our britsh pound goes
whilst living in these places. Still having an address (a famliy member or
friend)in the uk is real handy also. So you are sort of registered as living
in the Uk but travel alot. Then you can keep you existing english banks going.
The biggest tip I can offer is buy the plane ticket and everything else will
fall into place.

------
simonw
I'm doing this right now with my new wife, although our online business
(lanyrd.com) isn't exactly profitable yet.

We're UK citizens, and we've made sure our company has a registered address in
the UK (with our accountant). We'll pay all taxes in the UK - as far as the
world is concerned, we're working on our UK business while travelling. We're
doing everything on tourist visas since we're not performing any work for
foreign companies etc.

Our accountant advised us that paying tax in the UK would be a great deal
easier than trying to figure out how to pay it in foreign countries. Get a
good accountant!

We've been travelling for 106 days now, through France, Spain, Morocco and now
Egypt. Every single place we have stayed has had WiFi, though occasionally a
little flakey. Working and travelling actually go very well together - we'll
work in the morning, explore in the afternoon, then maybe work more in the
evening. Makes it much less likely you'll over-work and burn yourself out as
well.

------
rdl
(Thankfully, I am not a lawyer, but I've lived outside the USA for all but 30
months from age 18 to 31. This is not legal advice.)

For US citizens, you need to be aware of a lot of additional regulations -- US
citizens are taxed globally, and if you make more than the $6k or so minimum,
you must file a return every year. You have a certain exemption (approximately
$95k now) on your income, so if you make less than $95k per year, you don't
owe any tax, but must still file.

If you are in a location which has its own taxation, you may need to pay, and
then use a tax treaty with the US to deduct foreign taxes paid, avoiding
double taxation.

Basically, if you have substantial income or assets, you should use an
international tax attorney to handle these matters for you. Only an attorney
has attorney-client privilege, and your average US tax preparer (or even
worse, H+R Block or something) has no clue whatsoever. If you make <$95k/yr
and have pretty much just regular taxes, and are not subject to foreign tax
(due to traveling on tourist visas and not really establishing yourself), you
can probably file yourself -- you don't have a whole lot of deductions, etc.,
so it's actually fairly straightforward. If you have your own business, it
becomes really complex, and I'd really go the tax attorney route.

There are lots of weird and non-intuitive special case rules built into the
tax code, such as a restriction on "controlled foreign corporations", where
>50% or so of the equity is owned by US persons, and are then subject to lots
of extra US reporting requirements. This prevents a lot of the naive "keep all
income in the corporation, pay yourself a trivial salary, expense all your
personal expenses through the corporation" schemes, but also complicates
legitimate foreign businesses owned by Americans. This is the kind of stuff
you want the tax attorney for.

Right now I am personally stuck outside the US for the rest of 2010 due to
taxes -- I worked in Iraq until August, making more than $95k, and thus it is
a net savings for me of about $20k in taxes by remaining outside the US for
the rest of the year, thus keeping my 330 days out of 365 out of the US, than
it would be to return to the US. I have 6 days left in the US this year, which
I might use for YC interview if I apply.

I plan to do my next startup in the US (maybe in tax-advantaged TX or WA vs.
CA, but possibly just in the default of Palo Alto); taxes are annoying, but
living outside the US is even more annoying.

------
eps
Don't know about UK, but in Canada one can stop paying taxes once all
"domestic ties" are severed. This means closing all bank accounts,
disconnecting all phones and selling the car and the real estate (or
alternatively leasing it out for a long term). Even after all this is done,
the tax agency (CRA) will not assume you to be a non-resident if you do not
stay out of the country for at least 2 years. So it _is_ a hassle. Can't just
lock the house, hop on the plane and spend a year travelling.

Btw, the best thing to do for you at this point would be to talk to the tax
planning advisor. Pick a big accounting firm with lots of experience and in
one hour you will know if you want to do I or not.

~~~
elai
Is it really 2 years? You can't speed it up in any way?

~~~
eps
The way I understand it is if you come back for residency in less than two
years, CRA may have some questions.

~~~
elai
But if you don't, and register those 2 tax years as non-resident then it would
be fine?

~~~
eps
That's my understanding, yes. Talk to a tax lawyer though - KPMG, E&Y or
similar. No cheap, but it's money well spent if you are planning an "escape".

------
mcdowall
I've looked into this myself to some depth and also have some friends based
over in Asia and Sydney doing exactly what you are intending, from my
conversations with them the most overriding issue they have complained about
is the weakness of the pound, especially in Aus where it has gone from
2.5AUD/£ to about 1.6AUD/£ in a little over 14months.

That being said thats really the only grumble I hear, the quality of life
(weather especially!) seems to outweigh these issues.

Some useful links...

<http://everything-everywhere.com/>

<http://locationindependent.com/>

~~~
brc
As someone on the other end of that trade, living in AUD while earning USD has
been incredibly difficult in the last two years, and it's not going to get any
better anytime soon.

The irony is I passed on buying a flat in London because I was worried the AUD
would get weaker and I wouldn't be able to afford the repayments.

------
organicgrant
There are bunches of blogs from those that do this as a lifestyle. Thailand is
a pretty popular spot for digital expats.

<http://thrillingheroics.com/about>

~~~
nakkiel
I second that. Firsthand.

Life is generally very cheap here. Overall, you will feel like walking on eggs
for the two first years but after that things will be just fine. Culturally,
you will need to be able to handle huge alignments.

Honestly, there are ups and downs to this but you will feel alive like never
before (this is a general statement about living abroad).

I would advise contacting a good lawyer to help you handle the whole
immigration hell (yes, it is). In the IT business there are some shortcuts
agreements with the government that can help. I can give you a good pointer on
this.

More generally, if you can afford it; do it by all means.

~~~
ivanstojic
Could you specify if you moved, or are you a native over there? Also, is it
possible that you write something more on the "pointers with the government?"

~~~
nakkiel
I move here two years and a half ago. I was working for an NGO specialized in
ICT and after working for a while in France (my native country) I was proposed
to work in Thailand on a clinic computerization project.

Now, I'm simply being employed by a company doing OpenERP customization and
implementation. I do have plans/ideas for startup-like businesses (I suppose
I'm a bit conservative as far as business is concerned but, eh, I'm French..).
I don't personally start a business because I don't have the economic resource
to do so. I do plan however to check the water some time soon.

For the pointers, I meant a good lawyer with extensive knowledge of the
processes involved in relocating/establishing a business here:

    
    
        http://www.wissenandco.com/
    

The shortcut I was referring to is called BOI. It's an agreement which eases
much of the immigration process. They are especially looking for companies
working in the software business and you'll get bonus points if you're doing
opensource as the ad-hoc ministry is currently very interested in opensource.

I guess I should have mentioned all that in the first place.

@ivanstojic I read your HN profile and before you ask, there is room for
consultancy here. Also, NGOs are very interested in ICT consultants and I know
a guy who, with the right mix of connections and experience, makes in 6 months
enough to live for a year. Networking is the key.

------
forcer
I have a UK business and we decided with my wife to travel around the world.
We could have saved a lot on our taxes by claiming non-residency etc. but in
the end we didn't. We set our business virtual office as our home and all our
mail goes there. So far we are having time of our life, travelled 3 months in
USA & Canada and currently in Ecuador.

The difficulties we have are: \- troubles with virtual offce - if you decide
for virtual office choose carefuly - its very frustrating if you need to
change the address while being abroad \- time to actually do any work - there
is so much to see in the world and having motivation to keep building your
business is tough

Things we thought we would have difficulty but they are fine: \- internet
connection - all around USA & Canada we had wifi everywhere + I bought Verizon
mobile internet + ATT data package for iPhone and so wired 24/7 . Also, in
South AMerica - Ecuador, you can buy prepaid mobile internet for good price
and its reliable \- I thought the business will suffer but so far its doing
better than before and it probably helped me to realize that if I want to grow
my business - I need to hire good people and trust them to do a good job. \-
pretending you are in UK - I thought I will have hard time in getting new
business / contracts signed - but other companies don't mind - in fact I
signed biggest clients while being in a campsite in mountains of Canada. all
contracts can be Fedexed etc.. no problem at all

------
hsarvell
I'm currently living in Thailand (remote programmer) and it's a great country
to do these kinds of things from. When it comes to the visa situation here
it's kind of difficult, I have a Thai wife which kind of takes care of that
for me, otherwise your best option is probably getting a student visa. The
internet connection is not the fastest (max 100k/s to the EU/US) but it's very
stable even out here in the jungle.

~~~
emil0r
Seconding the stability of the Internet. The speed is indeed not that fast,
but when I lived there it was very stable and there were never any problems
accessing the American and European parts of the Internet.

------
Mal27
As far as tax goes, it differs a lot from country to country, at least with
the UK, you don't have to pay their taxes if you are mostly in another
country.

In some countries, merely visiting them for a holiday while being in charge of
a business abroad is considered taxable.

------
math
I'm currently in Phnom Penh (Cambodia) doing this and it's working out
extremely well. Extended visas are easy to get (note: pay the extra $5 on
entry and get a business visa if you want to extend). Love the people and the
place.

------
MarinaMartin
I've been considering an arrangement like this too, only I've heard a number
of stories about people who kept taking "weekend" trips to renew their 90 day
visas only to one day not be able to re-enter the country. I've overstayed an
EU visa and no one seemed to care (I was traveling so much between EU
countries that I honestly wasn't even thinking about it) but if you overstay
somewhere like Singapore you can literally get caned. I'd look into countries
where there are easier ways to get >90 day tourist visas, like Cambodia or
Hong Kong.

------
maneesh
I've been living abroad since 2007, living in Italy, Spain, Argentina, Brazil,
India, Colombia and Mexico. I'm a US citizen. For US citizens interested in
working on their business, you should know this: if you live outside of the US
for 330 days in any 365-day period, you can deduct 100% of the taxes on your
income, up to $91,400...

So I lived in India and Italy and Mexico/Colombia for the last year, earning
in dollars, spending in rupees and pesos. For americans who have their own web
business, it's something to think about....

~~~
butu5
this is good tax saving tips :) staying in home country (may be india in your
case) with us citizenship still enjoying the monetary benefit of USA.

------
dageshi
As a British Citizen Hong Kong is perhaps an idea, six month entry stamp no
hassle. Perhaps buying a shelf company there, I think personal income tax is
15%? I know most taxes there are fairly low. If you do check out Lamma Island
as a potential place to stay.

Otherwise, Cambodia is a pretty good shout, 1 year business visa costs about
$300 (multientry) (no paperwork). That's the best visa I know of in Asia.

------
dpapathanasiou
I have no experience with this myself, but I did read this article on the
BBC's site earlier today about being an expat in Uruguay:
<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-11397130>

Apparently, as long as you can prove a monthly income of at least $650, you
can get a visa to stay.

------
whopper
I have been doing the same thing since 2001. In the UK, USA, Italy, Australia,
switzerland. I am now in southern california I am a us citizen but if you are
a foreigner you can easily and within 2 months buy yourself a place in the USA
by getting a E2 Visa - Invest $120K in your own viable business (investments
include your salary) and you are in!

------
Vivtek
I've done this since the 90's (I mean, not continuously). Your ATM card works
anywhere; as long as you can keep everything at your bank at home working
online or through the mail, travel on a tourist visa and work as you go. Pay
your taxes at home.

There's nothing like it. You can't really understand a place in less than a
year.

------
Spoutingshite
Don't be concerned with immigration issues for a while and leave your business
registration and taxation status in the UK.

Sort out all the paperwork if or when you decide to settle down...in the
meantime stay nimble, have fun and travel.

------
known
Visa processing made easy at
[http://www.visanow.com/resources/visadirectory/Visa_Director...](http://www.visanow.com/resources/visadirectory/Visa_Directory_home_page.aspx)

~~~
huhtenberg
This link is actually quite useful. Down-voting must be some sort of a knee-
jerk reaction mistaking this for a spam.

------
PaulJoslin
Head over to Asia, you can get your Visa really easily, then extend your visa
over there by just crossing the border and returning again.

The cost of living is low and the atmosphere is great.

------
ww520
How do you guys deal with re-imaging a laptop in case the old one was lost? Do
you keep an image online somewhere?

~~~
davewasthere
Try and have most data in the cloud (dropbox/live mesh/Amazon s3) and
applications with cloud storage (google docs/basecamp/pivotal tracker).

I do carry a Windows 7 install disc and a 2.5" USB drive with all the various
apps I need. (I code for .Net, so do require quite a few installed
applications)

Total loss of a laptop while travelling would be a pain, but not
insurmountable. Worse would be to lose the install media, but that's
recoverable through MSDN, so given a day or two, would be up and running once
more.

Would recommend having a virtual machine accessible from anywhere that you can
fall back to if needed. That's saved my bacon a couple of times.

------
cjg
Don't forget that as a UK citizen you can live anywhere in Europe without a
visa.

------
tfh
Could you be more specific about your online business?

