

Ads Implant False Memories  - cwan
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/05/ads-implant-false-memories/

======
forensic
I'm amazed at the HN readers who are doubting this. Loftus and her colleagues
demonstrated a long time ago that memory is a constructive process and it is
incredibly easy to implant false memories in others.

Some of the factors that help implant a false memory:

1\. If the person was distracted at the time of the memory.

2\. If the false memory is plausible.

3\. If there is social pressure indicating that the false memory is true.

4\. If the person is reinforced in some way for recalling the false memory.

It's stupidly easy to make people remember stuff that never happened.
Psychologists have known this for a long time and it's one of the most
bulletproof findings in psychology.

~~~
scott_s
There's a difference between doubting the phenomena, and doubting this
particular attempt at demonstrating the phenomena.

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JonnieCache
As problematic as the method in this study may turn out to be, I'm afraid
their general claims about the confabulated/reconstructed nature of episodic
memory are pretty valid, and have been extensively studied over the years due
to their relevancy to the legal system in the area of eyewitness testimony.

[https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Lost_in_the_m...](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Lost_in_the_mall_technique)

[https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Reconstructio...](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Reconstruction_of_automobile_destruction)

And more generally:

[https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Eyewitness_me...](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Eyewitness_memory)

[https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Episodic_memo...](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Episodic_memories)

------
Alex3917
"It’s the difference between a 'Save' and the “Save As” function. Our memories
are a 'Save As': They are files that get rewritten every time we remember
them, which is why the more we remember something, the less accurate the
memory becomes."

Wouldn't that be save? If you save a file it permanently alters the original,
whereas 'save as' leaves the original file untouched.

~~~
antihero
A better analogy would be opening a document that had partial bits missing,
filling in the partial bits the best you can, and saving it.

~~~
noelchurchill
Or better, the good ol' "copy of a copy" analogy.

Or you might compare it to re-compressing a jpeg over and over.

~~~
hartror
The re-compressing isn't quite accurate as it implies loss of information
whereas the process we are discussing can add or remove information.

------
naner
Sort of related:

Here[1] is an account of a psychologist who got held up at gunpoint for almost
20 minutes discovering how he misremembered many of the details he swore he
knew.

1:
[http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2011/04/observations_afterwar...](http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2011/04/observations_afterwards.html)

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darwinGod
On a related note-Read about Edward Bernays
(wiki:<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays>) , nephew of Sigmund
Freud, and his contributions/actions/in advertising..or check out this
documentary- "Century of the Self"
([http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/century_...](http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/century_of_the_self.shtml)
), that BBC produced.

~~~
2_ghosts
This is a terrific documentary, one of the most best I've ever seen. In my
opinion Edward Bernays was one of the most (negatively) influential people of
the 20th century.

~~~
klbarry
The man helped the NACP when it was somewhat Taboo to do so. When cigarettes
were later proved to be harmful, he devoted an enormous portion of his energy
and a lot of money to campaigns against it. And after all, persuasion is an
incredibly important part of democracy; look back to ancient Greek, even the
arguments against rhetoric were heavily rhetorical. He was not evil.

------
s00pcan
"Although I can’t remember much else about the night, I can vividly remember
those sodas: the feel of the drink, the tang of the cola, the constant need to
supress burps."

I was just telling my dad the other day that there was only one event I could
remember from years of playing baseball at a particular field. It was when I
went to go buy a drink from the concession stand - they only had RC cola.

------
lurkinggrue
Humans use lossy compression.

~~~
shaggyfrog
Lossy storage might be more accurate. Like a biological Amazon EBS.

------
synnik
Marketing surely takes advantage of it, but I think this has more to do with
the addictive, yet passive nature of TV, where we let it push images into our
brains.

My favorite example (for which I've already given away the punchline) is the
following:

Ask a random group of people to imagine that they are watching a baseball
game. Give them a minute to think about it. Then ask them -- Are you in the
stadium? Or watching it on TV? The amount of people who visualize TV as their
first reaction can be frightening.

~~~
city41
Your question is leading though. "Watching" heavily implies television. Being
at the stadium involves much more than merely watching the game. I don't know
of anyone who uses the verb watch in reference to actually going to an event.

~~~
synnik
That is where you and I disagree. I don't think the verb "watch" has any such
inherent implication. Our society has given that meaning to the word in very
recent times. Rather than dismiss my point, I think the modification of the
meaning has proven it.

~~~
scott_s
It may not be a modification. Did people even say "watch a baseball game"
before television? Surely no one said "listen to a baseball game" before
radio. What you've demonstrated is that "watch" in some contexts implies
watching on a television. That's not the same as demonstrating the "addictive,
yet passive" nature of television. It does demonstrate its pervasiveness,
though.

------
JoeAltmaier
I'm suspicious of experimental method. Did the "false memory" students really
not eat the popcorn? Really? Students? They didn't get their friend to sneak
them some, or go in after the test and taste it? Surely they would not have
revealed this 'cheat' to the interviewer a week later in any case.

~~~
hugh3
Or maybe they were confused. There's no such thing as _"Orville Redenbacher’s
Gourmet Fresh Microwave Popcorn"_ , but you can go down to the store and buy
some _"Orville Redenbacher Gourmet Popping Corn"_ , so do the researchers
really expect me to remember the difference?

~~~
nooneelse
That is the thread of this that I would pull if I had a spare platoon of
researchers to send into this territory. How distinctive a memory is
"implantable"? As it is, I guess we will just have to wait until someone else
does that work.

Speaking of... is there some good way to get notified when a paper is
published which builds on some known body of work? Like can I get an email
digest updating me if any of a set of papers are referenced in new papers?

Addendum: Yes... "Track Citation" on JSTOR does this (if one makes an
account)... I doubt it does a pretty digest that helps me remember why I
wanted to know about the new papers (what question about the original paper I
was interested in having future research nail down), but it will have to do
for now.

~~~
william42
Much more distinctive memories have been "implanted" by mistake, such as child
abuse.

------
klbarry
I am extremely doubtful of this result. I can't find the full paper available
online, but I would like to see it.

~~~
Donald
The full paper is available here: <http://www.pi.edu.pk/660165.pdf>

~~~
klbarry
Thank you. The paper makes a point clear that the article doesn't - they
didn't ask kids if they ate the popcorn during the study, they asked if they
had ever eaten that particular popcorn, which is a huge difference.

~~~
btilly
That is a critical point. The ad branded the name "Orville Redenbacher" as
“Orville Redenbacher’s Gourmet Fresh Microwave Popcorn.” This is easily
confused with "Orville Redenbacher's Gormet Popping Corn" which is a popular
brand (see <http://www.orville.com/>) with a less intuitive name, and which a
good number of kids have, in fact, eaten.

Thus this is more evidence of ads causing brand confusion than memory
implantation. And underscores the importance of an insight that is already in
trademark law - that people will easily mix up a brand that is similar to an
existing brand with the existing brand.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
>“Orville Redenbacher’s Gourmet Fresh Microwave Popcorn.” This is easily
confused with "Orville Redenbacher's Gormet Popping Corn"

These are not really great examples of brand confusion IMO. In the name
"Orville Redenbacher" is considered the origin whilst the remainder of the
name is the particular product. Both of these are claiming the same origin
(company/person). This isn't brand confusion based on similarity it's a direct
rip-off. To make that point clear the consumer isn't confused about the origin
they have been conned. Maybe it's a bit of an esoteric point.

Gourmet Fresh Microwave Popcorn and Gormet Popping Corn are two different
products in two different geographic regions.

~~~
jshot
It looks like a pretty clear case of semantic confusion. When the article
named it, I just assumed that was the actual name of Orville's standard
Gourmet popcorn. Both the real and fictional names are a mess of generic
advertising words, neither particularly memorable or distinct unless you're
keenly interested. Most people won't even look beyond the "Orville
Redenbacher"on the title barring searching for a specific descriptor, like
"Gourmet" or "Kettle Corn," because those are the only meaningful terms that
will pop up on the box of a popcorn.

