
What Most Remote Companies Don’t Tell You About Remote Work - jaboutboul
https://blog.doist.com/mental-health-and-remote-work-1b77616f6945
======
d357r0y3r
Great article that really highlights the negative aspects of Digital Nomadism.
I work with some folks that do this, and when we talk about it, they can't
understand why I would want to just stay in my medium-sized city and travel a
few times a year. Like, why _wouldn 't_ you want to spend 6 months a year in
Thailand? It's such a no-brainer!

And for me, it's just sort of mind-boggling that you'd jet set around the
world. We own a home. We have friends and family. We have a great dog and
probably kids in the future. We've built something here that we like. Yes, I
know that the weather is great/everything is cheap/people are nice in City,
Country, but the lifestyle just doesn't appeal to me. I like being at home.

\----

One thing I'll say though is that the loneliness can extend to the non-Nomad
remote worker as well, though. Not that long ago, I worked at a startup in my
city where I came into the office every day. I really liked it, I just wanted
to do something different. And now I miss the camaraderie, going out to lunch
with work buddies, happy hours, and just getting in a physical room and
talking through tough problems. Sorry, a few Google hangouts a week does not
replace that.

Are all those things mentioned above worth sacrificing for the additional
flexibility, coming and going when I please, waking up when I want, working on
the things I want to work on? I don't know. Some days it feels like it is,
some days not so much.

~~~
acchow
People glorify traveling way, way too much.

It's even trickled down into actual work. New grads from college somehow think
management consulting's traveling every week is a fancy perk. What?

~~~
GVIrish
Different people enjoy different things. For some people, traveling is
fulfilling and exhilarating. For other people being in unfamiliar settings
with unfamiliar culture and language is much less fun.

And even within that, some people can enjoy travel up to a certain point.
Might be fun to travel for work once a month, but not for 3 out of 4 weeks. I
traveling for my first job where I was gone 60-80% of the time and it was fun,
but after a year it got old.

~~~
acchow
Yes, different people enjoy different things. I'm not claiming that nobody
enjoys weekly work travel. I'm claiming that it's overly glorified - something
like 80% of people will say "oh you're so lucky you get to do that!" when in
reality only a fraction of them would enjoy it and most of them would hate it.

------
meowface
I'm a natural recluse who loves living alone and loves working remotely. I've
always been this way. This article didn't resonate with me; I don't get lonely
and generally don't desire many social connections or interactions.

My key issue when working from home is staying focused and avoiding
distractions. Still haven't found a good solution (I only end up using website
blockers a few times before my hedonistic side takes over and just stops using
them).

I can be very productive and effective when I'm able to stay concentrated for
extended periods of time, but it's tough. I disliked working in an open-ish
office, but knowing people could see my screen often pressured me into being
productive.

~~~
piyh
The distractions don't go away once you step in an office.

~~~
jgtrosh
On the contrary… I'll actually stay home if I want to stay focused on one
task! You have to find out what sticks with you.

~~~
fernandotakai
yup. i used to work at an open plan office. it was absolutely impossible to
focus on anything.

even with noise-cancelling headsets, people would still talk to me. or people
would do impromptu meetings on a desk by my side.

------
armandososa
Why is there so much pressure on Americans to leave their family's home as
soon as possible? I lived with my parents and my two sisters in Mexico until I
got married at 32 and I think that helped me avoid depression in my twenties.
Had I've been alone in those years I think I would have killed myself.

And apart for having moral support it was financially sound. When I was doing
well with my freelance gigs I would contribute to the household and everybody
enjoyed the fruits of the excelente USD to MXN exchange ratio, when work dried
up I knew I wouldn't starve.

There's always a character in US sitcoms that lives with their parents and is
portrayed to be such a loser. I just don't get it.

I guess, what I say is: if you want to travel around the world do it. If you
want to live alone or with annoying room mates do it. But if you're happy with
your parents (and vice-versa) why does the culture wants force you to be
miserable and alone?

Screw the culture.

~~~
darkarmani
> Why is there so much pressure on Americans to leave their family's home as
> soon as possible?

It's purely cultural.

~~~
and1or2
Who creates this culture?

~~~
keerthiko
Everyone in it, past present and future.

If you're in it, you're welcome to fight the collective billions of years that
reinforce it. Seems unlikely, but not impossible. That's how culture works in
general.

~~~
chillwaves
Billions of years? This whole "rise of the nuclear family" happened within the
last 100 years, and not even that long.

~~~
keerthiko
My bad, I missed a few words: I meant "billions of years of lived experience",
as in millions of people * years living and reinforcing the culture at hand.

------
nickjj
I don't think the title ("What Most Remote Companies Don’t Tell You About
Remote Work") makes sense for this article.

He mentions co-founding a company and never had a "real" job but his title is
all about being a remote worker for a company.

There's a HUGE difference between being a remote worker FOR a company, and a
remote worker for YOUR OWN company.

In the employee / company case, you have someone telling you what to do work
on day to day and probably report to them on a regular basis for progress. You
have no chance to spiral out of control because if you produce low quality or
no work over a few days or a week you'll get reminded by your employer that
they are paying you to do work.

In the entrepreneur case, you have no one for that and then it's very easy to
get into trouble.

I've been working remotely for ~20 years (for my own freelance / teaching
business) and I find it super simple to find motivation to work on client work
because someone is requesting I do something for them, and they pay me in
return (similar to a "real" job).

But for the teaching (creating and selling video courses) side of things, it's
much harder to grind through everything because there's no real deadlines
(other than being irrelevant if you take too long, which is a serious threat
but you typically don't think of that during your day to day). I imagine
someone working on a startup as a solopreneur could have the same issues,
because it's the same thing.

~~~
towelr34dy
Reminds me of all those people saying how well electricians/plumbers and other
tradesmen earn.

Most of the time they are looking at someone with their own PLUMBING BUSINESS
and saying how easy it is to make money.

Sorry, owning a business is not easy. Doesn't matter what type. There is a lot
of risk, and people need to be rewarded for that risk. That is not free money.

If we look at the average repair guy for the a property manager, who works a
fixed schedule with a fixed pay check and who and does plumbing and
electricity, that guy will not be earning so well.

------
sebringj
I have a wife and 3 sons and am working remote now for over a decade. If you
have family around its super not depressing. Before that being single, I had
my dog or went out to the beach and sat under an umbrella and programmed
wirelessly or visited a coffee shop. Being in sunny SoCal helps too. If you
don't have friends or don't go out and stay by yourself all the time, the vast
majority of us would feel depressed. Being remote doesn't mean being alone, it
just might be correlated to people who like to be alone more and thus
depression ensues for most of us in that scenario as a "feature" of evolution.
Some tips to combat depression in general are to work out in the morning, go
for a run, listen to fun music that makes you feel energized, try to work
outside or around people when you can, use sunlight as your friend meaning
respect that you evolved for waking hours and your circadian rhythm sleep
cycle is regular, and you have a nice social network where you also physically
are in the same room with people etc. Basic stuff kind of like food... in that
eating healthy over junk makes you feel better, so is the social and routines
that make us feel more healthy, you needs it even if you would rather be a
recluse at times and not shower for a week living in your basement with the
blinds closed.

~~~
jhall1468
Same here, wife and 4 kids. Definitely not depressing. People like to
associate big targets with their mental health, but honestly remote work
doesn't make you depressed, your lifestyle can, and remote work can emphasize
that. If you get your "fill" of social interaction via other means, there are
enormous advantages as well.

~~~
sjg007
I mean being around family reduces the risk of depression. Being married
especially so.

~~~
jhall1468
Yep, that's kind of the point. Working remote doesn't cause depression, it
enables it, particularly when your lifestyle makes depression a high
probability. If you're a type B "loner" that doesn't really have
friends/family, I would argue that you probably shouldn't work remote if you
also happen to be susceptible to depression.

------
androidgirl
Sure, I imagine if someone isn't already lonely, being put into such
circumstances could make them lonely.

But loneliness exists in conventional workplaces too! I work in an open office
every day, but I'm still extremely depressed, isolated, and alone.

Culturally, I am very different from my coworkers. I do not fit into their
social events cleanly, and do not socialize with them. There are many possible
boundaries to creating human connections in modern society. Individualism in
America has guaranteed that.

And honestly, I'd much rather work remotely and be lonely than spend all day
in an office being lonely. At least at home I can focus and be more
productive.

~~~
MoBattah
Read your comments and saw this wasn't the first on this theme.

Depending on your status, do you have anything against asking guys/gals to
grab lunch?

Sounds weird but honestly, I ask out plenty of girls all the time not to date
them but to see if they'd be an interesting friend.

EDIT: I see you're also 21 like myself. Ever tried going to meet ups? Maybe
not tech-oriented meetups but hiking, kayaking, boating, etc.

~~~
androidgirl
Yeah, loneliness is my personal struggle. I've made steps recently to combat
it, I just need to be more aggressive about it.

I have been going to meetups occasionally! There is an LGBT women's group I go
to near my office sometimes. Still, as the article mentions, making friends is
a constant battle! Got to keep working on it.

~~~
MoBattah
I like this quote:

"I see that there are many young people here; as an old man, a little
advice... Life can set us a lot of snares, a lot of bumps, we can fail a
thousand times, in life, in love, in the social struggle, but if we search for
it we'll have the strength to get up again and start over. The most beautiful
thing about the day is that it dawns. There is always a dawn after the night
has passed. Don't forget it, kids. The only losers are the ones who stop
fighting."

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Mujica](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Mujica)

Email in my bio if you'd like a penpal.

------
goshx
I did remote work for many years starting back in 2003.

The worst time, when I almost lost my mind, was when I was living in a tiny
apartment, having my work desk inside my bedroom. Although I had my mother and
my sister living with me, I was supporting all of us and that pressure was
strong, so we didn't interact much.

I'd never leave the apartment. I'd wake up and jump on my work chair and start
coding. I'd get stuck in my bedroom sometimes working 16 hours in single days.

At some point I didn't know if I was working from home or living at work. It
was terrible. I wasn't aware of the potential problems at the time, so I let
it happen to myself. I had to eventually rent an office, otherwise I'd lose my
mind for real.

I love remote work and I love times of solitude, however you need a break from
time to time. Even if you are anti-social, you need to at least see and be
near people. Co-working spaces, coffee-shops, etc. they all work great for me.

~~~
eeeeeeeeeeeee
I had a similar issue when I was in a studio apartment. My desk was right next
to my living space and bed. I'll never do that again. Now I have the luxury of
having an additional bedroom that I converted into my office and so when I'm
done with work, I close the door.

------
ryanSrich
I've worked completely remote for the last 5 years. Before doing so, I read
articles and sought advice. Most of the advice was the same — "try to get out
of the house for a few days per week", "be sure your home office has a door",
etc.

This type of advice is shallow, obvious, and unhelpful. The only thing that
has worked for me is having a disciplined routine that I follow.

\- Bed by 10pm

\- Up by 5:30am

\- Coffee made by 5:45am

\- Protein smoothie for breakfast with coffee by 6:00am

\- Yoga/dynamic stretching for 30 minutes

\- Read through and reply to all emails and missed slack messages from the
previous 12 hours

\- Then work starts for me at 8am

\- Pause work for 2-3 hours for rigorous exercise for 2 hours (BJJ)

\- Dinner by 8pm

\- Work for 2 hours

\- Bed by 10pm

This is my specific routine. Your routine will be different, but the point is
you need one, and it must be disciplined.

Going to the gym, coffee shops, meetups, social events, etc. will bring you
friends and other acquaintances. It's the routine of your daily activity that
will bring you mental health.

~~~
fwip
Doing the math... this looks like 1.5 (email) + 12 - 2 (work till dinner,
minus break) + 2 (dinner to bed) = 13.5 hours of work a day. That sounds
awful.

~~~
ryanSrich
When you enjoy what you do and get paid well for it the math works out.

~~~
cryptozeus
Totally agree with this, it does not have to be 8 hr exact. If you are working
on something love then it is completely fine. We have all put in work in after
hours and weekends. Plus it looks like he has very healthy routine of waking
up early and going to the gym/yoga etc. I say in long run this is healthy.

~~~
fwip
No, I've never spent 13 hours on work in a single day, let alone decided it
was normal to spend nearly 70 hours a week at work (assuming weekends off).

------
larrik
Remote work is dramatically different for different people. For me, it means
I'm home with my family, and in 6+ years of doing it I've not once had the
urge to go into an office for any reason, much less socialization.

~~~
christophilus
Yep. Me, too. I _love_ working remotely, and will hopefully never have to
commute ever again. If I need a break, I step outside and garden, walk around
the neighborhood, play with my son, etc. If I need social stimulation, I head
into a coworking space or coffee shop, or just hop on Zoom with a coworker.

I do miss pranks and foosball, though. But those aren't a big enough upside to
justify all of the downsides of going in to an office.

~~~
gramstrong
>hopefully never have to commute ever again

Yes! Honestly, my commute (probably 20 mins average) was laughable compared to
anyone who works in the city. But even after good work days, getting stuck in
traffic with other tired people who were driving poorly would absolutely kill
my mood for the evening. I could leave work feeling energized and be
absolutely dead by the time I got home.

Not to mention that an extra 40 mins every day is huge for anyone who
struggles to find time to exercise. For me that means I'm getting a 5-mile run
in for "free" everyday and not feeling stressed out about it.

~~~
icebraining
In some places, you can combine the two; my commute is 50 mins, but 30 of
those are on a bicycle, which is pretty nice.

------
lukethomas
I've worked remotely for almost 7 years, for a few companies. Loneliness is a
real thing, especially for people who are more outgoing/social.

Here's what I've found works for me:

1\. work at a coworking space/coffee shop. Be around people. Get out of the
house some.

2\. Watercooler conversations don't happen automatically. I try to schedule a
coffee meeting 1x/week with someone.

3\. If you manage a team, you need to understand what's going on with each
person. For the past 3 years I've been building a tool for distributed teams
([https://www.fridayfeedback.com](https://www.fridayfeedback.com)) that people
have referred to as "therapy for remote teams". It's shocking what you can
discover if you ask people, "what's going on" on a regular basis.

4\. Quarterly or semi-annual meetups can help significantly. I want to get to
know the people I work with. It's super important to be reminded that these
are REAL people, not avatars on a screen.

~~~
diminoten
One of my fiancee's professors at Kellogg was _all about_ performing a nightly
reflection on his day, and the example questionnaire on your website reminds
me substantially of the ideas he was preaching. I think his name was Harry
Kraemer, you might find some inspiration in the stuff he's talking about.

~~~
lukethomas
Thanks for the recommendation! Will take a look.

------
sparrish
Sounds like he may not be suited for remote work. I've been working remotely
full-time for 10+ years now. I'm convinced some personalities just don't do
well working remotely. That's not to say they're "bad", just different and
would thrive in an office setting. Whereas I seem to thrive working remotely.

------
sixstringbudha
What a crappy article and an equally crappy title.

> Some days I would go to bed 3am, others I would sleep until 2pm.

There is your problem. Don't blame it on being remote. If you don't have the
discipline, you will find that you ll hard time making a lot of things in life
work..

------
calcsam
This article seems to conflate "remote work" and "being a digital nomad".

Lots of people work remotely without being digital nomads. Lots of people have
families and work out of a home office. Especially folks over the age of 30.

~~~
saltcured
I think most people use "remote work" for the most extreme version where there
is no other typical jobsite. The worker works from home, or wherever they
choose, and has no regular work-imposed constraints such as onsite meetings
with clients. This often applies to worker bee or creative tasks like
programming or long-form writing. With teleworking infrastructure, it can also
apply to more boiler-room sorts of work which have frequent interaction but no
fixed location.

People in sales or consulting who nearly always visit other sites used to be
called "road warriors" which is definitely not implied by "remote work" in my
mind. On the other hand, "work out of a home office" can mean anything. It can
be someone with an office who stays home a few days a week or month, or even
just works extra hours in early morning or late evening. It can be someone who
does visits client sites and has client meetings in public, but keeps their
files and records at home because they don't need a storefront. This could
include road warriors who lack an assigned space in their nominal place of
employment.

------
devy
What strikes me the most was this line:

    
    
       Encouraging people to use sick days for mental health when they need them.
    

Can't agree more, because mental health is as important as physical health.
And,

    
    
       Finding work-life balance isn’t about prioritizing your
       mental wellbeing at the expense of your work. It’s 
       acknowledging that, in the long-term, all areas of your
       life are better off when you put your mental health first.

~~~
cryoshon
agreed, but i'd say that mental health IS physical health. if you have
depression, you are more likely to get all kinds of cardiovascular diseases,
and your likelihood of death -- from any cause -- is vastly increased. it
isn't acceptable to suck it up and suffer through mental health episodes like
it's seasonal allergies or something. these mental health problems are left
unaddressed due to the need to do work -- or more likely, BECAUSE of work --
and that causes people to die younger and live in more misery.

------
slhck
The importance of finding social hobbies outside of work cannot be stressed
enough.

However, if you are not in the lucky situation of having a partner for whom
you feel responsible (e.g. by regularly doing things together, stopping work
together, or even just having a conversation over dinner), it becomes way too
easy to get sucked into a spiral of not going out and seeing people, and not
even feeling like you want to.

I have had times when I was working alone for extended periods of time, at
which I felt lucky to even be able to talk to a cashier while shopping for
food. That alone however didn't automatically motivate me to go out and seek
friends or activities. It's way too easy to forget taking care of your mental
health in such a state.

Ultimately, public health systems and employment laws should take care of
people by providing counseling and paid mental health days.

------
bitL
Dunno, if you have a life outside work, the remote work is absolutely amazing.
If you are glued 12-16h to a computer, then it is likely horrible. By remote
work you already saved 1-4h of commuting, you don't have to be in an office
with people you don't like, you can work in comfortable clothes, can take
packages you ordered right at home instead of picking them up from post
office, you can be productive even when your office is going through virus
epidemics etc. Often you can set cool working hours like 6am-2pm and do
whatever you like afterwards... If your income is sufficient, you can even
travel the world, working one month from one cool place, the next month from
another one, and surprisingly getting a huge productivity boost just from
changing the scenery (if your job is in any way creative).

------
topkai22
Very interesting post, as it helps me see things from the perspective of
someone at a different life stage from me. I’ve been leading a distributed (my
preferred term) team for 2 years now. I’ve got 4 other humans + associated
animals in my house, a dedicated outbuilding as an office, and the option to
visit a an office if I want to. What’s more, I came to working remote after
doing 50-75% work travel for a couple years. Being able to see my kids and
wife everyday is absolutely amazing and makes any other annoyance worth it.

But I’ve got 20 people on my team. Some of them are new grads, some are
recently divorced, etc... This article helps me see areas we as a team can do
better serving them I wouldn’t have seen myself. Thanks to the author and OP.

------
bogomipz
This is a really confused and flimsy piece of writing. The author starts by
recounting a life-changing after which they decided to completely uproot and
move to another country where they found themselves lonely and depressed.

The author then uses this anecdote to assert that "working remotely" is
fraught with peril.

They say nothing about why they chose to move to Taiwan. Was it a place they
had always wanted to see? Or was it just an attempt to try to escape in the
wake of a breakup? The anecdote also makes no note of how or even if being a
"remote worker" factored into their unhappy experience.

Further moving and traveling are not the same thing at all. I sounds like the
author moved:

>"I lived in Taiwan for about a year before I returned to Europe"

The article seems to willfully conflate moving to another country, working
remotely and working while traveling. These are all distinctly different
things they people might choose for different reasons.

And some of the assertions are just downright silly such as:

>"Loneliness isn’t something that many traveling remote workers write about.
You won’t see it in their Instagram stories."

It's also not something that sedentary office workers write about either.
Having a daily routine and a familiar office space does not prevent
loneliness. And most social media to has a positivity bias, nobody seems to
curate anything other than a "fabulous" online persona for themselves. You
would have to be a fool to let yourself be "informed" by social media.

------
cryptozeus
Great article and good discussion going on in the comments. I personally am
going through very interesting transition. My company has decided to let
people work remote or from the office so I have 2 days work from office (T,W)
and 3 days work from home (M,Th,F) schedule. Here is my observation for last 2
years (working in bay area)

Days I am working from home

\- I have better energy in the morning and evening due to no commute.

\- I work way more and focus on personal diet and health way less because of
no set schedule.

Days I go to office

\- I feel more energetic during morning and afternoon. This is mainly due to
socializing with colleagues and working with humans face to face.

\- I get out more, go for walk, have lunch with people outside.

\- Evenings are dreadful with 1/2 hr commute.

\- No energy at night.

My personality is such that I like to be around people and like to get out.
Remote work sort of stops me from doing that however if I go to the office
everyday then commute kills me.

Have not found the answer to this problem yet.

~~~
subsection1h
You "focus on personal diet" less when working from home? At home, you have
100% control over all the ingredients in all your meals.

When I worked in a office years ago, I frequently ate donuts and pizza because
they were free. LOL.

~~~
cryptozeus
I know its crazy but at office I have whole food and other great options next
door. I just walk over there to eat, at home I have to cook the meal or do
doordash which does not have good options

------
azrael49
Pretty one-sided article. Sure, working from home is lonely if you need social
interaction and don't automatically get it from work. If you have a family,
active social life, or simply don't need social interaction to be happy, it's
not a problem.

But what if you work in a company that's: tiny, not very social, or you just
don't feel a sense of connection to anyone? My current workplace hits all 3 of
these, and I feel lonelier when I'm in the office than the couple times I've
gotten to spend a full week working remotely. I think the real issue is to
investigate whether you have a healthy social life, or whether you're lonely
and using workplace socialization as a crutch or replacement for real personal
bonds and activities

------
DoreenMichele
_I’ve never worked from a real office or even had a “real” job._

This doesn't outright invalidate the main thrust of the piece, but it does
perhaps explain the rose colored glasses he appears to have for the benefits
of a normal job.

I was a homemaker for many years. Then I had a corporate job. I've done remote
freelance work since.

Jobs can be crazy making, soul sucking and put you in awful situations you
have no control over. People put up with it because they need a paycheck.

My mom was a homemaker for a long time and also did freelance work from home
for years before going to work. I'm perhaps more prepared than most to live
this way because I saw it growing up.

I'm all for finding ways to improve the status quo. That can be done without
injecting so much judgy drama into the problem space.

He begins with talking about leaving a girlfriend and moving elsewhere and how
miserable he was. He basically blames his misery on doing remote work.

I lived in the same house from age 3 until I was an adult. I got married, he
joined the army and we went to outer first duty station. I was miserable. It
was horrible. It took me years to stop blaming Texas and realize I would have
been miserable anywhere.

It was a huge shock to my life to move someplace new. I had no coping skills
at all for such a scenario.

You can't blame remote work for the misery of combining multiple major shocks
like dumping a girlfriend and leaving town. That's not realistic. You can have
that same scenario without remote work, such as by joining the military.

I do occasionally have to stop and make a conscious effort to count my
blessings. Working the way I do allowed me to repeatedly move pretty much at
will and that has benefited me tremendously. It helped me solve problems that
would have been much more nightmarish if I needed to job hunt to move.

I wish him well in meeting his goals of improving remote work for his people.
But I respectfully suggest he first disentangle some things from it in his
mind that he is conflating as due to working remotely.

------
amag
This is very interesting. A couple of years ago I was pretty sure that working
from home was the ideal for me, but that was after being exposed to a series
of either small, cramped offices with a bunch of people or large open offices
with lots of people. What I have come to realize that I really want though, is
what I had at the turn of the century; my own private office with a door to
close. That provides the best balance for programmers IMHO. If you need to
focus - close the door. If you need to coöperate - either go to a coworker's
office or set up a meeting. If you just need to feel less isolated - leave the
door open.

------
pvarangot
So basically to do remote work correctly you need 40 days of completely
offline from work vacations per year, plus taking sick leave when you have
anxiety or depression symptoms. It's also nice if you rent an office and if
you make yourself space to have a meaningful social life.

I mean, those are great tips, but any kind of remote or non remote or whatever
profesional career or relation more likely will need or greatly benefit from
all that!

------
mrhappyunhappy
Not remote but I started freelancing a few years ago out of necessity. At the
time I had to put in every hour of the day to make ends meet and I was getting
burned out quickly. There were no weekends nor a week work, everything blended
in and I greatly missed the physical cutoff between work and play. I was also
struggling with occasional bouts of depression. It didn't help that my foreign
wife was dealing with depression which dragged me into it even further. It was
my primary reason for moving to her native country to be closer to her family.

Fast forward a year and a half and I still work on my own but now as a
consultant. I work at most 3-4 hours per week of actual focused work. The rest
of the time I work on side projects that never seem to come to fruition but
that's another story. Mental health wise I no longer feel depressed but that
may have something to do with having a newborn son who keeps me plenty smiling
and a reason to live. I still go to bed late (writing this at 2:15am in my
bed) and I think this alone is having a terrible effect on my health but I
feel powerless to stop it. These days I am more isolated than ever with zero
real life friends and very few old friends I still talk to online. I don't
feel the need for human connection as I know spend most of my spare time with
my son but that could just be something I tell myself. Truthfully, I want to
make friends I can meet with to hang out but it has become somewhat an
impossibility with my current work situation and language barrier - not to
mention the social barriers put up by people of this society. I am not sure
where I am going with this or what the trick is to working remotely... I guess
if I think there is one thing that helps, it's that working less is more
beneficial than busting your ass day in day out.

------
late2part
Blogger who never worked in an office and thinks remote work is moving to
another country to be a nomad after you breakup with your S.O. False
dichotomy.

Remote work from home is dissimilar from nomadic work.

Mental illness is a real problem but I don’t see the correlation.

Some kernels of good in there but 8 weeks vacation? Why not 12 weeks vacation
and 3 hour work days. Irrational proposals.

Not a reasonable article in my opinion.

------
laurex
I've worked remotely on and off for the last 8 years or so, and currently work
for an all-remote company. I am at least somewhat extroverted (ambivert fits
well) and it's totally doable, as long as you have the right company culture
and take the effort to have other professional social opportunities like
meetups or coffees. In my case, being remote has meant that I probably work
more than I did in an in-office job, but have more flexibility to do things
like pick up kid from camp. One of our developers has a dog and I often see
him (via our team's Marco Polo video messages) walking around in the parkland
near his house. We have "core hours" where generally everyone is online. I'd
say that enjoying remote work and keeping it viable depends on
overcommunicating to some degree and to knowing your own boundaries, but I
feel much more connected to my current remote team than I did with folks at my
last in-person job.

------
xyd
We are the generation who will be responsible for introducing this new
paradigm. We are the generation with all the tools and platforms. Let’s try to
avoid adding unneeded layers of skepticism just because people can’t or didn’t
think it through.

I suggest folks to try it with a critical mindset in evaluating the
productivity and social interaction. With a mature sense of responsibility. If
you miss meetings or don’t deliver, you’re making it harder for others who
know how and love to do it. Be mindful, either if you’re a worker or a
company.

I have been working remotely for few months every year. My director was
skeptical initially. I told him that if I didn’t act responsibly, that would
have been my last time. That happened almost 10 years ago. It’s really on us,
folks.

For people that feel alienated, well, social (and social network) skills can
be improved and put us on the stage of this kaleidoscopic beautiful world. : )

------
paradite
> I lived in Taiwan for about a year before I returned to Europe.

The whole Taiwan part is not really related to the issue of remote work.
Remote work or not, moving to another country and then returning to home
country after 1 year simply means you made a rush decision to relocate or you
are bad at coping with a new environment.

~~~
leesec
Or he tried living in Taiwan for a year and decided it wasn't for the best.
Not everyone can just fit in anywhere but its still worth trying if you feel
you should.

~~~
paradite
I agree that there's many explanations to this, but my point is that this is a
separate issue from the remote work.

------
notacoward
I've worked remotely for several years, but not alone. From time to time
before that I worked alone (i.e. one-person projects) but not remotely. I
think it's the combination of the two that's far more toxic than either alone.
If you have either collaborators or people nearby, it's fairly easy to get
your recommended daily allowance (whatever that is) of human interaction. If
you don't have either, and particularly if your outside-of-work social sphere
is also small, things can get weird fast. The sort of people who might once
have been lighthouse keepers or custodians of some remote outpost might still
be OK with that, but they're pretty rare. For anyone else, it's an almost sure
route to depression or worse.

------
silverdrake11
I worked in a office setting for four years doing development work (finance).
I found it very difficult to make friends and very isolating. Then I ended up
getting laid off and living with roommates and found it much easier to make
friends and less lonely.

------
arwhatever
I'm digital nomading with my wife, and we both agree that this is the happiest
point in either of our lives.

No doubt it requires the people nomading to be very compatible with each other
and both individually compatible with the lifestyle. I could see it being
difficult without the company, unless you just settle in some place long
enough to make friends, which is really really more like moving than nomading.

We have one suitcase each, with more clothes than we need, and one decent
laptop, camera, and phone per person.

We definitely want to head home to visit family and friends about twice a
year, evenly spaced.

But from my samples size of 1 (or, 2), I recommend it very highly.

------
sologoub
Not sure if this is more of an American thing or common elsewhere, but in US
we tend to tie a lot of our social connections and self-worth with the job.

If these were not the case, loneliness and other social pressures would be
less of a thing - if your normal circle of communication, social connections
and support systems are not tied to work, then not physically being next to
your coworkers wouldn’t make that same impact.

That’s not to say that face-to-face cannot at times be more productive (though
it could also be less productive too), but the psychological impacts would
simply not exists as you wouldn’t be isolated in the first place.

------
poulsbohemian
Me, for background: "Non-traditional" worker since ~2005, including stints as
employee, as freelancer, as business owner. Some in a co-working space, some
in home office, some as road warrior.

I don't really recognize the issues the author is describing. Obviously
exercise, activities apart from work, and being cognizant of one's mental /
physical / emotional needs are all good things. But, I can't say I've ever
felt loneliness or any kind of existential dread over any of it. If it weren't
for my kids (school, activities) we would go nomad for big chunks of the year
too.

------
dizzystar
Working remotely is fine as long as you are someone who has hobbies and
interests.

It's usually an insult to say "take a hike," but in the remote working world,
this activity is super important. Walk to the store, walk outside, join a
hiking group, walk to the bar and grab a beer.

Or whatever your interest is, turn off the computer and do that during the
evening, and try to get fresh air.

I spent a lot of time travelling / being a nomad. The article touches on a
brutal reality of the experience, but most of us who's done this really don't
talk about it. We just shrug and say we know how it goes.

------
leesec
I haven't worked remotely but I have travelled solo a fair amount and his
points about loneliness resonated with me. However, I don't think everyone has
to stay traveling if they are a remote worker. As he mentions it takes time to
build community and relationships, but for me that is a reason to go remote. I
want to live stably in another city where I feel I will integrate better with
the people then the city my office is currently located. I don't want to
switch apartments every month or live out of a backpack.

------
ollysb
Been remote for 6 years now and I’ve had a blast. I wouldn’t say I was Nomad
though, I prefer to pick a city to call home for at least a couple of years (I
prefer european cities). It’s still easy to cruise a round a bit as well but I
definitely like having a home with a solid group of friends etc. You do have
to be proactive with the social life, but I prefer picking my friends by
shared hobbies/interests than work. Remote gives you a lot of options, if you
know what you like then it’s easy to design a life you’ll love.

------
sergefaguet
the article highlights very avoidable problems.

i have lived completely remotely for the last 2 years – hotels, different
countries etc., have not spend over 60 days in a single location at a time.

i think it is amazing once you know how to do certain things well: \- have a
very well-adapted set of routines. \- know how to maintain deep relationships
everywhere \- appreciate different places for different things \- are busy

i use silicon valley for interactions with smart people and fundraising,
russia for hiring and great social life, switzerland for deep work, asia for
seeing very forward-thinking economic markets etc.

if you have good practices around arranging time with people in each location,
mix in a bit of acid/MDMA/meditation – you can have it all – deep
relationships, understanding of many markets/cultures, independence from
annoying governments and their taxes, and the best of each location.

i would also argue there is a lot of value in training yourself to be
independent of locations in the modern world – it feels like it increases your
overall flexibility and ability to adapt. which is clearly worth a lot.

i write a lot about my specific routines for making this work here
[https://hackernoon.com/biohack-your-intelligence-now-or-
beco...](https://hackernoon.com/biohack-your-intelligence-now-or-become-
obsolete-97cdd15e395f)

~~~
volkk
i read your article, and im praying that it's satire. and if not, i'm
extremely concerned that it has 34k "claps" or whatever you call it on medium

~~~
sergefaguet
lol. it is not satire. the claps are just a reflection of that a lot of people
consider this a good life strategy.

~~~
redisman
I'm exhausted just skimming through it. Whatever works for you I guess

~~~
sergefaguet
a lot of the article is focused on how to do deep work without getting
exhausted. feels like that is a valuable skill to invest in.

------
cm2012
I'm a consultant who works remotely. I don't miss the office in the slightest.
If I can get away with it I don't even go to Manhattan (I live in Queens).

------
dennisgorelik
I enjoy running my business (postjobfree.com) from my home in Florida.

It also allows me to have "non-standard day" (about 30 hours, that is about 6
hours longer than regular ~24 hours day that most people have). I am not sure
if such non-standard day is good or bad for me, but I like it so far.

To stay mentally sane, I make sure that:

1) I exercise every day (usually, run for ~3 miles).

2) Talk with people -- both business and personal - (usually on Skype).

~~~
QuotedForTruth
So your schedule shifts 6 hours forward each day?

~~~
dennisgorelik
Correct: about 6 hours forward every day (sometimes more, sometimes less).

------
keerthiko
I became a nomad on our 4-person team because of visa issues. It resulted in
our company optimizing to be remote-first, and now post-visa-issues we're
still all remote.

No question about it, the best part of being an all-remote team are the days
when we get together to cowork in person, and it can't happen regularly
enough. Funny how that works.

------
rbreve
There was an article about loneliness a few days ago, it’s not related to
remote work, you can be lonely and working at an office and living in a city
for years, I think it depends on the persons social skills, programmers are
introverted and they will feel lonely if they don’t work on their
relationships.

~~~
icebraining
It also depends on your personality; some of us don't really get lonely, even
with a bare minimum of social interaction (I can't say I've ever tried full
isolation).

------
inertiatic
Sure, these things can happen, such feelings can come up. But these pale IMO
next to the disastrous effect of forced interaction for one third of your day
every day of your life.

Yet very rarely do we see an article complaining about such things (besides
the occasional mildly damning article on open office arrangements).

------
k__
Sounds more like the author had psychological problems than problems specific
to remote work.

I don't travel much, but I woudln't stop working remote for all the money in
the world. Working when and from where I want is a huge chunk of freedom.

Don't throw you lifetime away.

------
walkingolof
I worked remotely for 7 years, sitting at home (alone), and it’s great, I
interact as much with other people as in an office, just over slack/zoom, I do
not feel alone and save allot of time not commuting, time I spend with family
and friends.

------
person_of_color
Where can I find remote companies that pay SV salaries and don't adjust for
local COL?

~~~
EduardoBautista
I sometimes wonder why don't SV companies hire more in Canada and/or Europe
just by offering slightly higher than average salaries.

Their runway will be a bit longer. They will easily higher more people
especially if they let people know they offer higher than average salaries, it
will attract the best engineers in the area, and I don't see how the product
will be any worse.

------
gfarah
I’ve been working remotely for almost 5 years. One thing I would recommend
remote teams is visiting teammates cities (if possible and if traveling is
your thing). Is a nice way to see the world and for team bonding at the same
time.

------
programminglisp
Good article although I could not read all of it. I found it long and
repetitive.

------
moltar
Remote != work from home.

I work remotely from a shared office with other people. We socialize all the
time and go for lunches together, just as I did when I worked at the office.

Before I did that, I did work from home. And it’s definitely isolating.

------
dczx
Spot on. I have followed a very similar path. Backpacking through SEA for 6
months, then creating a remote work environment back home. But all of it was
lonely.

Joining a makerspace and yoga are my favorite things to keep me busy.

------
analog31
I wonder how much about remote work also applies to remote school, i.e.,
online education. The boredom and loneliness of trying to get something like a
college degree remotely must be staggering.

------
slantedview
The type of remote work matters a lot, such as whether it's as part of a
distributed team or solo. That said, having things and people outside of work
is always beneficial as well.

------
PeterStuer
Anecdotally, working in IT, I see no higher depression rates between remote or
office workers. If anything, it is the reverse, but not to a high degree.

------
jarym
I really resonated with this article and didn’t find much to disagree with
from my own personal experience.

Thanks to the author for writing it.

------
mvkel
I feel like people say they want to work from home until they do. Then they
never want to do it again.

------
aviv
It's much harder to climb the corporate ladder if you are one of the only
remote employees in a company.

------
eip
What non-remote companies don't tell you is how super awesome remote work is.
If people caught on then all those near useless mid level extroverts wouldn't
have anyone to poop next to at the office.

------
sscarduzio
Sorry you were not able to build meaningful relationships in Taiwan. Probably
that is not the easiest place, I get it. But maybe you should work a bit more
on yourself instead of writing throwing so much shit to the people who earned
their high degree of freedom with a lot of effort. Also, you are discouraging
people that are trying to find the courage to exit their comfort zone and
reach their objective.

~~~
Baeocystin
I mean, I agree with a kernel of what you're saying, particularly about
encouraging people to leave their comfort zones. And frankly I think Taiwan is
actually a pretty friendly place, and I am genuinely happy that aspects of the
overall Chinese civilization were able to separate from what happened on the
mainland. But the author is clearly not shitting on anyone by describing his
experience- he was a young man who learned some important lessons about his
personal needs, which didn't line up with his initial expectations. Where he
learned that lesson is really orthogonal to the point.

