
Hello Programmers without Masters degree, what are your future plans? - pshyco
If you&#x27;re a programmer without masters degree in computer science, how are you going to be competitive and keep progressing in future. For example, I have an undergrad degree in computer science, been programming for 7 years. Not sure if I can keep writing code till 60 and still find jobs as well as make good income. I fear I&#x27;ll be run over by the new generation.
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AnimalMuppet
I'm 53. I've been a programmer for 30 years, mostly in embedded systems. My
explicit career goal is to never become a manager.

As you get older/more experienced, it becomes harder to find jobs. When
"senior developer" means 5-7 years of experience, what do you do with 30
years? It gets hard to find places that will pay for that experience.

I've found, though, that there are jobs. You won't be switching jobs every 1-2
years - more like every 5-10. "Big engineering" places seem to value the
experience more than, say, web places. (This may be just because I'm in
embedded systems - there's not much use for that in web services.)

Your advantage isn't how fast you can crank out lines of code. It's how fast
you can deliver real value to the business (what else are they paying you
for)? Along those lines, one of the most valuable things is the bugs you _don
't_ write and the bad design decisions you _don 't_ make.

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insoluble
> Along those lines, one of the most valuable things is the bugs you don't
> write and the bad design decisions you don't make.

This point is very important yet elusive. I do contract development, and it's
often difficult to get clients to understand the significance of this point
without sounding negative or exaggerated. It would be nice if maybe I knew of
some formal studies done in this area to give the clients a more substantive
awareness.

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AnimalMuppet
I wouldn't use a study. I'd ask about their own negative experiences - where a
contractor did something, and it took them another six months to fix it. If
that's ever happened to them, they'll get the point without needing a study.

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insoluble
This approach may be suitable with more experienced clients, but smaller/newer
clients may lack the experience or "self-awareness" to reflect in this manner.

It's curious that inexperienced developers are bad for clients while
inexperienced clients are bad for developers. Perhaps it takes experience to
appreciate experience. At the same time, inexperienced developers may go well
with inexperienced clients since they can learn together -- albeit with plenty
of inefficiency.

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smt88
In my field (web software development), a Masters degree is actually an
impediment. People are less willing to hire someone with a Masters or PhD for
some reason. Maybe there are exceptions for research positions at big
companies, but that'll mostly hold true.

Not many people can (or do) write code until 60. Most will become managers. If
you don't want to be run over by the next generation, develop and manage the
resource that you have that they can't catch up with: experience.

You can develop that resource by doing a wide variety of work or by focusing
on a niche. I've seen developers who _only_ fix bugs in ____ language. Or you
can work on a wide variety of projects, in a wide variety of roles, and do
consulting.

Unfortunately, most coding is treated as a commodity by the business world,
and the younger devs have a cost advantage over you.

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ruraljuror
Could you expand on how you see a masters degree as an impediment? Is it just
that you've noticed few people have master's degrees or is it actively an
impediment?

The reason I ask is that I am a self-taught web developer (BA in English &
Classical Studies) considering getting a master's degree in computer
engineering. I am not certain if I do go down that road that I would want to
stay in web development, but I am rather passionate about the web so I would
not want to rule it out.

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iends
Not who you asked, but it's not been an impediment to me. I've worked at 4
person companies and 100,000 person companies and the masters degree has never
been an issue expect I make more money than those without it. I do full stack
javascript (Node/Angular).

If you don't have a CS degree, getting a more technical degree couldn't hurt
you, but it's more about the opportunity cost.

The masters degree is certainly not that useful for Web development, but it's
a lot of fun and was pretty enjoyable to interact with smart people. It's also
helped to have more formal learning in things like compilers for the few times
I've needed to write a parser, etc.

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bootload
_" If you're a programmer without masters degree in computer science, how are
you going to be competitive and keep progressing in future."_

So University alone determines your ability to succeed? A better question to
ask is, _" How do I make credentials less important?"_ (hint: performace),
read _" After Credentials"_ ~
[http://www.paulgraham.com/credentials.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/credentials.html)

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pshyco
Thanks for a view from different angle !

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bootload
Another perspective can be gained reading _" Profession"_ a short story by
Azimov ~
[http://www.inf.ufpr.br/renato/profession.html](http://www.inf.ufpr.br/renato/profession.html)
and
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profession_%28short_story%29](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profession_%28short_story%29)

Should read performance.

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throwaway_ghj
BE(SoftEng) here. Professional 10 years. ~3 years at current employer who is
the dominant IT vendor in my country. There are definitely lifers within this
organisation, the pay and benefits and conditions are good.

I plan to broaden my horizons with philosphy and business studies and
hopefully mitigate institutional boredom by growing my own side-projects until
such time as this overtakes my salary.

Can't really see a masters being particularly useful.

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newdaynewuser
Masters in Computer Science would be research or academic related. Not many
companies need researchers. And luckily our field doesn't really care about
credentials that much. I see many people without even Bachelors progressing
just as fast as people with advanced degrees.

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stray
I've done just fine so far with a 9th grade education.

You _may_ be passed over for jobs by hiring managers who don't understand the
value of experience. You don't want to work for them anyway.

I'm less than a decade away from 60. And I'm not worried in the slightest.

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pshyco
Really good to know !

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BorisMelnik
Continue learning as much as possible. Stay up on current trends and try to
remain focused on my current career path. Don't skip around from industry to
industry. Build a blog.

