
Leaving Apple Inc - sndean
http://minimaxir.com/2017/05/leaving-apple/
======
mattnewton
> However, after a few years, I realized that my technical skill growth was
> stalling, so I looked for an an internal transfer to another department,
> ideally in a data analysis/software engineering role.

> Having received no responses internally, I realized I would have to expand
> my search to outside of Apple.

I literally just went through this exact same process, coming from Apple, and
looking for Machine Learning/ Data scientist roles. Only people hiring
internally wanted graduate degree credentials in the field. I hope you find
what you are looking for! Some time off to work on side projects to skill up
and get a portfolio was my plan A before I accepted an offer.

It worries me as a shareholder though.. These are just anecdotes and I don't
know if they actually represent a trend, but in my case I wish Apple was
better about internal transfers.

Edit: you are living the dream and I am definitely going to follow this blog
to vicariously learn. Congrats on having the balls to just do it.

~~~
eksemplar
The thing about machine learning is that, unlike with robotics RPA, new
graduates in the field are so much better than anyone else.

I'm in the public sector in a Scandinavian country mind you, so it's not like
AI experts are lining up. We tried retraining, didn't work. Then we tried
retraining some more, this time with outside consultants, didn't really work
out either. So we hired a new graduate who had specialized in tensorflow
during his degree, who (obviously?) blew our small progress away.

Now this is anecdotal, but being the public sector we share experience openly
with each other, and I'm hearing the exact same story from every other
muniplicity in our network.

~~~
mirekrusin
How is that possible? TensorFlow has been released 17 months ago.

~~~
KurtMueller
Maybe it was a two year masters degree and he spent his last 17 months using
it?

~~~
pietro
A master thesis is only one semester. He would have had plenty of time.

------
jorblumesea
It's not Apple, very few employees get the career growth they want internally.
Almost always raises and advancements happen by leaving and coming back (or
not). Good luck! Enjoy your time off.

~~~
humanrebar
And, to be fair, only exceptional organizations let you keep pace with your
experience both in responsibility and in salary. It's much more typical for
advancement to come through political moves and/or attrition (your boss quits,
you're the backup, so now you're the boss).

~~~
notacoward
> It's much more typical for advancement to come through political moves
> and/or attrition (your boss quits, you're the backup, so now you're the
> boss).

Therefore, making your boss want to quit is an effective career strategy. The
more ruthless you are, the more likely you are to advance. Over time, the
upper echelons get filled with sociopaths. That's not theory, BTW. I've seen
it play out too many times.

------
NTDF9
Does anyone else feel like OP is having to do waaay too much to land a job?

~~~
ryanSrich
Actually no. The industry has changed a great deal in just the last 5 years. I
think the days of just having Google or Apple on your resume and getting
another gig are over. The only thing having a high profile company on your
resume says is that you likely need a high salary. It's just cheaper to higher
the new CS grad for $80k year.

~~~
discreteevent
"The only thing having a high profile company on your resume says is that you
likely need a high salary"

\- It might say that you have some experience that could save the new company
a lot of money.

"It's just cheaper to higher the new CS grad for $80k year."

\- $80k is only the debit side of the balance sheet so so "cheaper" is
correct. But "more economical" might not be.

~~~
ryanSrich
I don't disagree. You give hiring managers too much credit though.

------
eljimmy
Curious why you quit before securing a new job elsewhere? Did you just want
some time off work?

~~~
jkarneges
Personally, I take time off between jobs as a rule. After childhood, it's the
only way breaks over 3 weeks are possible.

This assumes demand for engineers is still high. It's been awhile since I've
done this.

~~~
funnyfacts365
Move to the EU where 4 weeks vacation is the rule?

~~~
vetinari
Not in one lump, though.

~~~
kk_cz
Why not? It depends on your agreement with employer. In my previous work I had
a colleague who used to vanish to Himalayas for at least a month every year.

~~~
vetinari
As you said, it depends on your agreement with the employer.

It's not given by the law. By the same token, you can have 4 or more weeks of
vacation in the US - if the employer agrees.

In practice, most of the employees do not even ask for 4 weeks at one. Most of
them want a week during Christmas, a week during winter for skying, a week in
the summer, etc. In some cases, the company can make you to take mandatory
vacation at the time when they need it, and of course it is taken out of your
four weeks. Car makers, for example, often shut down the entire plant in the
summer and everyone gets their vacation then.

So the vacation time is not that clear-cut, not even in EU.

------
ComodoHacker
>After years of building up my portfolio, it became apparent that most outside
recruiters I talked with never looked at my blog/GitHub, despite a strong
emphasis of both on my résumé.

Interesting. Could someone with HR experience elaborate, what recruiters are
actually looking at?

~~~
marsrover
I'm not a recruiter but I always ask the person interviewing me if they've
looked at my personal projects and/or GitHub. The answer is usually (9 out of
10 times) no.

I put a good amount of time into my personal projects and while I didn't make
them only to get an interview it seems like such a huge oversight on behalf of
the potential employer to not even look at what I might be able to build. It's
also disappointing that they don't look.

------
shubhamjain
> At the end of my senior year, I received an e-mail from a Software QA
> Manager at Apple (who followed my comments at the bottom of TechCrunch
> articles) inviting me for an on-site interview.

Can anyone tell me how common is it in the Bay Area to get opportunities based
on your online presence? In India, I have seen that being well connected on
LinkedIn is the most significant factor in getting contacted by technical
recruiters. Although, blogs and projects are nice to have, but doesn't
necessarily mean you'll have more offers on hand.

~~~
eropple
Not in the Bay, because I like being able to afford living, but in Boston--and
probably a solid 10-15% of my business as a consultant comes from Hacker News
posts. Not just devops stuff, either; not too long ago I consulted on
something much more general software-dev after being noticed with a one-off
post about something or other.

~~~
sillysaurus3
_Not in the Bay, because I like being able to afford living_

Nice.

 _There are times, when things are in one of their gross phases here, that
that is literally the only reason I stick around._

Nice.

Arg, I was going to engage, but just... whatever. Ok yeah, it's impossible to
live in the bay, HN is gross and only valuable for money, the world sucks.

Sorry, it's not even you. It's just this running joke of dissing on HN in
passing (not even a solid critique or actionable complaint) that's getting a
bit old. It seems like a common sentiment, but I know this is just
randomness/selection bias doing its thing.

But it's slightly frustrating when the disses are sandwiched around the
substance, so there's no way to even respond to them without by definition
being off-topic. So you end up getting a free, cheap shot.

Anecdotally, the mods work their butts off, so if there's something specific
that you're hoping will change, they're more than willing to listen.
Especially if the community starts collectively nodding in agreement. Though
usually it's better to express this in a tangentially-related topic.

~~~
eropple
Yes, I avoid living in the Bay Area because I literally couldn't afford to
live there without having my rent payments or the commute suck my life away.
I've run the numbers. I couldn't. I don't feel bad about not being able to for
all sorts of reasons, but whether I felt bad or not doesn't change that the
math doesn't work.

As for the latter, I edited it before your reply because I didn't really feel
like getting into it because it's late--but I will be straight with you, if
there's a "running joke" out there I certainly wasn't participating in its
spread. Those critiques--and I'm happy to shoot the shit about them, my email
is in my profile and you're welcome to say hey--don't belong in this thread.

------
easilyBored
_I am now actively looking for a data analyst /software engineering job within
San Francisco. If you are interested or if you know of companies who are
looking for qualified people, please send me an email_

He's probably worth more to a company if he works in marketing. What a
brilliant way to market himself.

~~~
puranjay
I haven't ever read his blog or followed him online, but the moment I landed
on the site, saw his name and picture, I recognized him immediately - "Hey,
that's the Max Woolf from TechCrunch comments!"

I remember about 4-5 years ago when you couldn't read a single TechCrunch
article without a witty comment from Max.

He even mentions how he got interviews after someone found his comments on
TechCrunch.

Max is a very smart marketer with strong communication skills. IMO, he would
be more of an asset in a role that leveraged these skills along with his
technical knowledge

~~~
hkmurakami
Developer evangelist?

~~~
puranjay
I'm thinking more of a growth focused role where he can use data science +
copy/content.

------
arcanus
Curious if you considered getting a Masters in data science or a related
technical field, when you found that an impediment to your preferred career
path.

------
johnwheeler
I love the way you format your py code. clean and super easy to read.

[https://github.com/minimaxir/facebook-page-post-
scraper/blob...](https://github.com/minimaxir/facebook-page-post-
scraper/blob/master/get_fb_posts_fb_group.py)

~~~
minimaxir
OP here:

Full disclosure, I've been working on that code today (unrelated to this blog
post), and the formatting is mostly done through linters. (e.g. autopep8, and
abusing the Format Document button in VS Code)

There are still a few PEP8 violations which the linter doesn't fix (e.g. the
79 character width) and there are still a few things that need fixing. (after
I commit my 4x speedup refactor, anyways)

Relevant VS Code settings:

    
    
       "editor.rulers": [80],
       "python.linting.pep8Enabled": true,
       "python.formatting.provider": "autopep8",
       "python.linting.pylintEnabled": false,

~~~
johnwheeler
I like that you're not afraid to use space and how the comments stand out. My
code is so dense, and now I'm tweaking it to look more like yours

------
aakilfernandes
Been excellent seeing your posts on here and Reddit over the past few years.
Best of luck!

------
chitti_babu
I wish you the best of luck with your job search. FWIW, I would totally hire
you!

------
stillhere
Everyone is obsessed with being a software engineer who writes code but I love
QA and all it represents. I started off as a QA and now write code but the
experience made me a better engineer than virtually everyone who did not start
off with QA. Trying to get a code writing job from a QA background is really
hard. The developers who interview you tend to have this air of arrogance like
people who started off in QA must be there because they could not write code.
Actually, since I was not writing code all day I never grew tired of it and
was more inspired to write programs on my own free time than them. I feel like
this poor little QA with his feelings of inadequacy let the other elitist
developers get to him.

------
kevlar1818
> I still intend to continue blogging, not as a hobby but in a more purposeful
> way...

> ...

> Data analysis live-streaming with augmented functionality on Twitch.

No thank you.

~~~
nindalf
If you're going to criticise, at least provide him with more substantial
feedback. A "no thank you" doesn't help him, but explaining why livestreaming
isn't your cup of tea would be better.

If you think that no, you don't have the time to type out a full sentence like
"sorry, I prefer screencasts that have fluff edited out" or "I prefer text
because the information density is much higher", then maybe you should say
nothing at all.

