
Scientists can now make lithium-ion batteries last a lifetime - janvdberg
http://www.computerworld.com/article/3060005/mobile-wireless/scientists-can-now-make-lithium-ion-batteries-last-a-lifetime.html
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SwellJoe
A lot of folks are being dismissive of batteries with a longer life, because
devices that use batteries also become obsolete; conveniently, it happens on
about the same schedule for some people.

But, that misses the point. A battery that lasts dramatically longer means you
can deploy batteries in ways and places that couldn't be deployed before, and
you can use them in ways we don't currently think "I know, I'll use a
battery!" Power for the grid is one of those areas. We don't store generated
power right now, because it is too expensive. Partly it is too expensive
because batteries are inefficient and horribly short lived. A battery that
lasts 25 years could be matched with solar panels that last 25 years (or more)
to provide a very effective replacement for grid power. This is just my own
take on what a much longer lived battery might be used for. I'm certain there
are tons of implementations that aren't obvious to me.

Even if a battery with a 20 year life cycle never makes it into a phone, it
would still be revolutionary.

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ngrilly
Can somebody skilled in chemistry confirm the article's claim? Because if it
is true, then this is a technical revolution. In most devices I own, the
battery is usually the only thing that I need to replace at some point (which
is especially unpleasant with Apple devices).

~~~
smaddox
The conclusion about Li-ion batteries is not supported by the paper. The paper
tests the electrodes in a capacitor configuration, not a Li-ion battery
configuration. Li-ion battery electrodes are damaged more by the swelling
caused by Li-ion diffusion into and out of the electrode than they are by the
electromagnetic forces between electrodes.

~~~
jobu
It's hard to tell if the article is just confusing capacitors and batteries,
or if the researchers consider using the coated nanowires in a capacitor
configuration as a proof-of-concept for use in Li-Ion batteries.

From the article:

 _" All nanowire capacitors can be extended from 2000 to 8000 cycles to more
than 100,000 cycles, simply by replacing a liquid electrolyte with a... gel
electrolyte," the researchers wrote in their paper.

The result: commercial batteries that could last a lifetime in computers,
smartphones, appliances, cars and spacecraft._

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steffenfrost
Lifetime cycles are an issue for Li-ion batteries.

For example, lets look at the Tesla Powerwall numbers. The Powerwall warranty
covers 85% of capacity with 740 cycles in the first two years -- whichever
comes first. Then it covers 66% capacity with 1,087 cycles in three years, and
finally, it covers 54% of capacity for 2,368 cycles in five years.
[http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/is-teslas-
powerw...](http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/is-teslas-powerwall-
luster-already-fading)

Running the numbers for the Powerwall, 85%, 66%, and 54% of 7kWh is 5.4, 4.6,
and 3.8kWh respectively.

(740cycles x 5.4kWh) + (1087cycles x 4.6kWh) + (2368cycles x 3.8kWh) =
17994.6kWh

Thus the cost per kWh stored is

$3000/17994.6kWh = 16.7 cents/kWh.

Not included is the shipping and installation cost, which could add another
$300 - $500, which would run

$3300/17994.6kWh = 18.3 cent/kWh.

~~~
fencepost
From what I've read[1] about lithium-ion batteries, it seems to me that if you
don't actually need to utilize the full capacity and don't need to have the
full capacity always available, you can get some pretty drastic improvements
in battery lifespan by limiting the charge to 70-80% of maximum capacity and
trying to avoid discharging below 40-50%.

That doesn't mean you can't go outside those ranges in special cases, just
that it's best for the battery to spend as much time as possible within that
range. For a Powerwall, I'd take that to mean that charging it to 100% every
day with solar then draining it to 10% every night recharging an electric car
is going to reduce its lifespan pretty fast, but charging it to 80% daily and
using it to reduce your grid draw without fully discharging may let the unit
last for years with minimal decline in capacity.

It's like a lot of things - if you're constantly bouncing against hardware
limitations, there's a good chance you're putting more stress on the hardware
and are going to see shorter lifespans for it. It may not be readily visible,
but effectively batteries are a moving part subject to wear so treat them as
such and plan for it.

[1]
[http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_li...](http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries)

~~~
tedsanders
That's true, but I wouldn't call the effect drastic (as long as you stay in
normal voltage ranges).

For example, your link says that 100% depth of discharge lasts 300-500 cycles,
50% lasts 1,200-1,500 cyles, 25% lasts 2,000-2,500 cycles, and 10% lasts
3,750-4,700 cycles.

You might think wow, 3,750-4,700! That's way more cycles than the 300-500 of a
100% discharge cycle! This is true, but usually the important comparison is
total kWh stored, not total cycles. Each cycle of a 100% loop is 10x more
valuable than a discharge of a 10% loop. So the proper comparison is not
3,750-4,750 vs 300-500, it's 3,750 vs 3,000-5,000. So the shallow discharge
cycle comes out on top, but not by a huge margin.

Compounding this is the fact that lithium ion batteries are always losing
capacity while being stored at room temperature. So this is another advantage
of deeper cycling of batteries. You get more value out before they age.

Anyway, you likely knew this, but I thought I would share in case it was
educational for others.

------
ComputerGuru
OS X tells me my battery needs to be replaced on my 15" rMBP, it's apparently
at under 80% charge capacity now.

According to "System Information", I've done a mere 359 cycles - and according
to their website, "Your battery is designed to retain up to 80% of its
original capacity at 1000 complete charge cycles." [0]

Of course their warranty on defective batteries conveniently runs out after
just one year. I've been meticulous about only charging it with genuine ($80+)
chargers, including at home, at work, one in the car, and one in the carry-on.
Someone should tell them about this new tech.

0: [http://www.apple.com/batteries/service-and-
recycling/](http://www.apple.com/batteries/service-and-recycling/)

~~~
blhack
Mine has about 650 cycles on it, and the battery currently lasts about 30
minutes, and dies at around 55% (reported by the OS).

------
beefield
There exists already a lithium battery technology commercially available that
claims 20 000 cycle life (that is more than 50 years of daily full
discharges). Obviously, there are at least currently some drawbacks with
lithium titanate compared to the standard lithium technologies, namely cost
and power density.

[http://www.ev-power.eu/LTO-Tech/](http://www.ev-power.eu/LTO-Tech/)
[http://www.ev-power.eu/LTO-technology/](http://www.ev-power.eu/LTO-
technology/)

(I have no personal experiences with the technology)

------
Imagenuity
Last night an article from popsci.com was posted that covers the same news

UCI Researchers Accidentally Make Batteries Last 400 Times Longer

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11547756](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11547756)

[http://www.popsci.com/researchers-accidentally-make-
batterie...](http://www.popsci.com/researchers-accidentally-make-batteries-
last-400-times-longer)

------
tracker1
Now if they can only make them work in multiple devices... What good is a
"lifetime" battery for a device that's no longer used in 3-5 years.

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zaro
Not of much use with planned obsolescence still being pretty much the
standard.

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digi_owl
With device support being 2 years at best, and even FOSS being unwilling to go
a decade without a ground up rewrite, i'm not sure this will be much worth for
mobile devices...

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known
Bad times ahead for OPEC

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partycoder
According to scientific journalism, cancer and HIV have been cured over 100
times. Scientific journalism is monetization of hype.

~~~
erikpukinskis
No, you are just reading too much into the headline. It doesn't say "company
ready to produce batteries that last a lifetime" it says "scientists can make
a battery last a lifetime". If you read more into it than that, that's your
fault.

I am highly skeptical that you can find any articles from reputable
publications claiming cancer or HIV have been cured, let alone 100.

~~~
partycoder
The funnel is: Headline -> Visit -> Ad print -> Ad click

They don't care about the content just the ad revenue. If reporting about dog
food brought revenue they would be reporting about dog food.

