
iOS 6 Breaks the App Store - Mazer23
http://www.pixiteapps.com/blog/the-app-store-is-broken/
======
sumukh1
This is awesome news (though it's been known for a while) for the top
publishers who have: large download numbers, good AppStore SEO, and good
screenshots.

While I think that this is bad on whole for developers/discovery as we knew
it, it might just help users. Most of the time, users are either window
shopping or looking for a very specific product.

Window Shoppers: "I want a photo editing app", chances are you are going to
look at the first result and scroll down and see if a icon stands out. With
the new model, you see the screenshots too. Could save time over, tapping into
an app, tapping into reviews, and then tapping back twice. This means that the
icon is downplayed in sales and the first screenshot has become extremely
important.

Very Specific Product: "I'm looking for Gmail" It's quicker to just get the
first result and confirm that it's actually what you are looking for. This
however means that Apple has to be really confident in their search results
(which aren't as great as they can be).

Net effect for developers: 1\. App Store SEO is important. (It always was, but
now I think developers will start to see it now in their app sales)

2\. Your copy on the sales page should also grab users attention.

3\. Your first screenshot is very important. Your screenshots should be good.
(Link: [http://mobile.tutsplus.com/tutorials/mobile-design-
tutorials...](http://mobile.tutsplus.com/tutorials/mobile-design-
tutorials/app-store_screenshot-design_iphone-desig/))

4\. Also note, categories have been removed from the app tab bar.

5\. Ratings seem to matter a lot for the search algorithm but not for Featured
apps

6\. This is the "Chomp" update, and Chomp has been known to get content from
Blogs and various sources, so you should be mentioned off the App Store too.

7\. Facebook Likes also help since those are displayed.

Here's a cheat sheet that seemed useful:
<http://www.apptamin.com/ASO_Cheat_Sheet-v2.pdf>

~~~
jlmendezbonini
Where are Facebook likes displayed? I can't seem them in the either version of
the AppStore (Web, inside iTunes, from iPad).

~~~
sumukh1
Check under the reviews tab. It's under the FB section of this page:
<http://www.apple.com/ios/whats-new/#facebook-gallery-like>

------
bpatrianakos
Nothing is broken and no one is "doing it wrong". It's not broken, it's just
inconvenient for _you_. This sucks for app developers with bad app store SEO
and lackluster icons, app designs, and screenshots of said designs. Many apps
at the bottom of the stack will be neglected. This is a good thing. I'm about
to release an app into the app store for the first time and I'm happy about
it.

This will raise the bar for developers. It'll force them to do better app
store SEO and it'll force the, to pay attention to design. Ugly apps aren't
always necessarily bad but more ugly apps are bad than ugly apps that are
good. This isn't Android. On iOS, users tend to judge an app by its icon and
screenshots and they use pretty apps more than they open ugly ones. I didn't
make the rules, I just play by them. Developers should be welcoming
competition and with so many crap apps out there today it's probably better
for good app developers to work on getting their rankings higher while the
crap app makers languish at the end of the results.

While its bad for developers it's great for buyers. Guess what? There are far
more buyers than developers on the app store. You may argue that if developers
leave then iOS will die. Not so. Again, iOS users are a different animal. They
can live with just a few big name apps from the major players. Android users
tend to like lots of apps from indie devs and iOS users do too but if push
came to shove they'd just keep their Angry Birds, Skype, Facebook, Twitter,
and Yelp and go on with their day. Screenshots are very important in the
buying process and putting them front and center like this.

As developers we tend to think we're the center of the universe. We place far
too much importance on our role than is deserved. Witness the outrage over
Twitter's API. While developers were screaming about revolt the users barely
noticed and kept tweeting away. Meanwhile Twitter pretty much gave us the
finger because they know we'll be back because they have the users. Developers
are like parents in a way. We raise a platform then the platform rebels. We
threaten to cut them off but by that point the platform is all grown up and
doesn't need our help anymore. iOS won't be hurt by developers leaving. If
developers leave over not being found in search results then by definition
they're leaving because no one's using the app. Who's going to miss an app
that never gets used?

~~~
tzs
As a buyer, I don't see how it is great for me. When I search on the App Store
there are usually several hits in the results that are not at all interesting
to me, and ahead of the hits that better match what I'm looking for.

I want to see several results at once so I can pick which ones I want to look
into more deeply. If I have to step through them one at a time with a
noticeable delay at each step, I'm not going to be a happy buyer.

~~~
bpatrianakos
_You_ want this. _You_ have certain tastes and preferences and expectations
but _you_ (and me and everyone else who reads HN) are not representative of
the typical user.

For a community all about entrepreneurship and building things for others
you'd think we'd figure out by now that we are not the customer (unless you
run some business directed directly at tech savvy people but you get my
point).

Also, I am astounded at the hubris people display when faced with minor
annoyances like this. Don't like the new App Store design? Well then it's
fucking broken!

We are all a bunch of nobody's trying to scream louder than all the other
nobodies about how smart we are and how we'd do a better job but most of the
time its all bullshit. It takes some balls to think you're smarter and can do
better than the most valuable company on earth. Every time someone is annoyed
by something someone inevitably comes out and says its the wrong way to do it.
Well there's an easy way to test if you're right or not. If the App Store
stops making money any time between now and, let's be generous, the next time
they change the App Store UI then you'll be right. But as long as they're
making billions off this thing I feel pretty confident in saying they're doing
something right and I sincerely doubt they'd do anything to harm their baby.

Think about it: it you run a company and have a successful product why would
you change it? You wouldn't change it because some asshole designer has some
extra time on his hands and thinks he came up with something prettier. No.
You'd change it because you have the data that tells you it's going to make
you more money if you do.

I'll never understand why people think these huge multi-bazillion dollar
companies are being run by total morons. And make no mistake, if you write a
blog post about how billion dollar product X is broken because they changed
its color or something then you're taking the position that the company has as
its decision makers a bunch of morons taking shots in the dark.

And one more thing: did you notice it? Someone did. Something changed and then
someone complained about it (even going as far as to say its broken). Of
course. Human beings hate all change and we'll fight it to the death even if
it's for the better. Six months from now the same people who hate this will be
same ones who will fight to keep the very design they hated (if they ever
decide to change it) just to avoid change. Because change is scary and
involves learning a new thing and what if you're not good at the new thing and
the cycle of anxiety provoking thoughts begins...

~~~
eprom
No, this sort of blindly pro-Apple bull shit is what's wrong with current
conversation around Apple. Are we supposed to roll over and shut up because
the almighty Gods at Apple decided this was the best way to do? This notion
that we should get down on our knees and pray (or otherwise please) the
overlords is just wrong-- is it really so crazy to assume that Cook & co.
could make a mistake? Yes-- large, publicly traded corporations generally look
into many options, accurately predict the outcomes of each, and then make an
educated decision that is likely to have the best outcome-- but that doesn't
make them infallible. Questioning Apple isn't hubris-- it's human.

Tangential: Why do I as a developer have to assume that users don't want what
I want? Is it so wrong to think that a user might want to be able to see and
evaluate 5 different apps at a time instead of 1? The past couple of years in
tech have been spent wondering how to simplify UI for the sake of the user, to
the point where we can't even trust them to have settings-- we need to know
what's best for them before they log on to our websites or launch our apps,
but is that really valid? It's easy to imagine that in 1983 when Microsoft
Word was first announced, people needed total simplicity-- these "personal
computer" things (probably a fad) were brand new and only available to the
elite-- but this is the twenty first century and we have a whole generation of
digital natives who will ask Google for an answer before they get in the
shower-- and they're users too.

~~~
sbuk
It's equally fair to say that there is a lot of blindly anti-Apple articles
that make the front page here.

"Are we supposed to roll over and shut up because the almighty Gods at Apple
decided this was the best way to do?"

No. But by the same token claiming something s broken within hours of it's
release and without any measurable data is hyperbolic and at this stage in the
game somewhat OTT. Much the same is true with mapping. As another poster has
said, don'rt buy their products, or if you are developer, don't develop for
the platform. Of course multinationals make mistakes. It's far too early to
claim that this is the case.

"...this is the twenty first century and we have a whole generation of digital
natives who will ask Google for an answer before they get in the shower-- and
they're users too." And I'm willing to bet that they are _still_ not
representative of the majority of end users. It's not as if these users aren't
catered for either - Android is an excellent mobile OS that is far more
friendly to the end user that wants that level of control. No, the biggest
issue we have now is the over inflated sense of entitlement that the many on
the internet seem to have.

------
omarqazi
When searching for apps, do you guys usually immediately jump through the
whole list? This is something I never do.

However, I will look at apps one at a time and decide which one is best. On
iOS 5 this meant clicking on each list item one by one, waiting (forever) for
the app page to load, and eventually picking one. Allowing me to browse
through apps one at a time and see all the information I need without ever
leaving the screen seems like it would encourage discovery, not hurt it. I can
even download the app right from the search screen AND I don't get thrown out
of the App Store when I start the download so I can just download all the apps
I want to try at once. This seems like a huge win to me.

Do other people browse the App Store differently?

~~~
crag
I browse the same way. And this new layout is a welcome change for me. Finally
I don't have to drill down every app I'm interested in to see screen shots and
comments.

~~~
guelo
You mean screenshot(singluar) and no comments.

------
jpdoctor
Could the message be any more clear? Stop putting Apple in your critical path.
They hold all the cards and you hold none.

~~~
mannkind
Of course! There's no _possible_ way to promote your app other than telling
users to search for it in the App Store. If having users _stumble_ upon your
app is in your critical path, you have other problems.

The search results have always been less-than-stellar whether you could scroll
through 25 results in 1s or 11s.

~~~
MatthewPhillips
Why hasn't Google jumped on this? If I search for "todo app" in Google, I get
mostly blogs (SEO experts) and one app that apparently was the first to ask
for the name Todo.

Shouldn't Google trigger a special view like they do when you search for
"CITY_NAME weather" or "MOVIE_TITLE showtimes"?

~~~
mayanksinghal
You mean platform dependent results? If the person is accessing from Web then
web apps, from Android then playstore results etc... Sounds nice actually!

~~~
MatthewPhillips
If you're logged in Google knows what smartphone you own, might as well serve
app results tailored to you.

------
robomartin
Well, app store searching and browsing through either an iPhone, iPad or even
iTunes has been, to be kind, far less than desirable from day one.

The same is true of iBooks.

Apple has crappy search technology and even crappier implementations.

------
grey-area
While I disagree with the linkbait hyperbole of the article title, Apple have
taken a misstep here. What they should have done is allowed the user to flip
between a list view of results or a card view when introducing this new view
type, rather than just replacing the list.

Re searches I'd expect a simple search for picasa to return apps with picasa
in the name before other apps, no matter how popular they are.

The frustration I have with the App Store is that it doesn't have enough
control over subcategories and filtering so it's hard to filter results or
browse effectively as the categories offered are so broad.

------
spaghetti
As an iOS developer I'm not too thrilled about this. However as a mobile
developer I'm actually happy to see this. And I'm glad that Apple's review
process is pissing off developers. And I'm glad that Apple took an awesome,
frequently used app (Google maps) and just removed it. And I'm glad that the
new devices' taller screens make developers' lives harder (at least in some
cases). Why am I glad? Because all these screw ups provide incentives for
developers and other companies to stay in the game and compete with Apple. So
as mobile developers I believe it's in our best interests to have a diverse
ecosystem that's not dominated by a single company or at the very least where
there exist incentives for multiple organizations to compete and innovate.

------
jeffpalmer
I saw the new style search directly after I upgraded to iOS 6. I just opened
the app store again after reading this post and now I am getting search
results in the old list style. I wonder if Apple decided to switch back?
Screenshot:
[https://www.dropbox.com/s/wl7w37pwuti87en/2012-09-19%2021.08...](https://www.dropbox.com/s/wl7w37pwuti87en/2012-09-19%2021.08.25.png)

------
furyofantares
If you view the details of at least half of the apps in your search results up
to the one you eventually buy, this change means it takes less effort to find
the app you want to buy, and you get more information in the process.

If I buy the sixth app in the search results and only care to review two of
the earlier ones, the old method was 5 touches before the one I'm buying is in
front of my face, while the new method is 5 swipes, and with the new method I
get more information about the three I previously rejected based on icon/name
alone.

I'm pretty sure my own experience is that the item I am looking for is usually
in the top 3 results, and I pretty much always review the top 3 results, so
this feels like it will make it significantly easier for me to get to the apps
I want to buy.

I'll have to try it out to know, though. One thing I lose here if the 3rd app
is the one I want is the confidence that the one I _really_ want isn't
somewhere in 4-10. It will take some usage to know if the new design is better
for me or not.

~~~
cdmoyer
Yeah, the premise about user behavior in this post feels wrong. I never browse
the app store by searching. I search for a specific thing by name and it's
normally a top result.

I browse by category.

------
ghshephard
I've purchased about $1000 worth of applications on the iPhone/iPad in the
last 4+ years, about 350 or so in total. 95%+ of the time I chose the very
first app in the list. I don't recall the last time I was looking for an App
that I didn't know the name of - but perhaps others use the App store
differently.

Of course, this is negative for publishers who are trying to leverage the
search field with "like names" and, for those publishers who get business from
people searching for random apps in a particular category.

But, in general, this is good for people like me - who heard about a great new
app by name on a podcast, and just want to try it out - having the extra data
around the screenshot is useful.

------
jsz0
Pre-iOS6 I would often go through and tap on each search result to look at the
screenshots, assuming I didn't already know exactly what I was looking for, so
this saves me a couple extra steps there. If I know exactly what I am looking
for the search suggestions allow me to go directly to it. The one thing I do
not like about the iOS6 App Store is the amount of horizontal scrolling on the
iPhone. Not enough space for that to work well.

------
JumpCrisscross
>" _No offense to the makers of “Picasa HD Lite”, which ranks #1 in a search
for “picasa,” but Web Albums’ 5-star average from 483 ratings should be ranked
higher than a 2.5-star average from 30 ratings._ "

No, if I search for X I want to get X, not a better rated app in the same
category as X. If I search for "photo album" or something to that tune this
argument would be valid.

~~~
danboarder
@JumpCrisscross what you missed here is that "Web Albums" is the official
google Picasa app for iOS. Picasa HD Lite is a low-rated knockoff optimized
for appstore SEO. The author's point stands, the official Picasa app (Web
Albums) should rank first.

~~~
Timothee
How is it the official app? It's not made by Google but by Pixite (author of
the OP): <http://www.webalbumsapp.com/>

Were they bought out or something? That page doesn't seem to indicate so.

~~~
danboarder
Thanks Timothee, you're right. Google's name for their Picasa albums product
is "Web Albums" and the one the author in OP is talking about was by Pixite
(not Google). But still, it has much higher user ratings and should rank
higher. reference:
[http://support.google.com/picasa/bin/answer.py?hl=en&ans...](http://support.google.com/picasa/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=157000)

------
ouriel
the very first assumption of this post is fragile "Although Apple doesn’t make
these numbers public, I bet most people search instead of browse through the
App Store categories to find the apps they’re looking for" 1\. This is really
far from certain. actually the reality is that most apps who get massive
downloads from the app store got featured or from the top charts when they
reach the top 1. I never heard a developer who had massive growth because he
was "searched" 2\. The App store has been redesigned mostly for visual
discovery and not search. Explaining the streams, big stickers, card browsing

If you want to be discovered in massive volume in the app store the only way
is to get promoted or top ranked

The other cases are edge cases and frankly do not justify complaining about
how such results are displayed.

Ouriel appsfire.com

~~~
bad_user
I'm pretty sure that when it comes to apps linked to a well known brand (e.g.
Picasa, Twitter, Flickr) or solve some kind of specific problem (todo, email,
finances) do have downloads primarily from search.

Discovery by being promoted or top ranked only works for apps where downloads
are impulse-driven, games being the primary example. Searches on the other
hand are intent driven, initiated by users that want to get something done.
And I don't think developers of such utility apps want massive downloads, they
just want to make a profit.

Also your argument about discovery needing top ranking is circular. To get top
ranking you first need discovery. This is where iTunes fails its customers -
as it focuses on the new and the shinny, creating an environment where apps
that build a reputation slowly have no place, which is why most apps in the
app store are released in a fire and forget fashion.

------
hnriot
Aside from the design issues of layout and information density, for me the new
store doesn't work half the time, I click links for reviews and nothing
happens, or I click more reviews (because its shown me just one for some
reason) and again nothing. Without some clue as to what is clickable (this is
basic design stuff) it's hard to know what is supposed to work and what isn't.
I'm sure the store will go through some rapid evolution in the next few weeks
and there are likely some very stressed devs down in Cupertino right now, but
for the moment this just looks like that were nowhere near ready to ship iOS
6. Of my dozen or so friends that upgraded their iPhones about half of them
had stalled upgrades and needed to hard reset at least once.

------
apphero
Since the App Store search algorithm update in June, my apps have seen a 60%
drop in sales. Before the search changes, two of my apps steadily made me
around $40k a year for three years.

The drop in sales concerned me so I paid for external advertising and
marketing. It did not help.

One of my apps was featured by Apple twice. Now when you search for it by its
exact name, some free spam app shows up above my app.

I am expecting another huge sale decline starting this month thanks to the new
iOS6 App Store.

I'm not sure how anyone can see this change as being rational. This change is
as bad for customers as it is for developers.

As for me, I had a good run on the App Store. But the world is not ending.
It's just time to look into other income streams.

------
firat
I agree that iOS 6 layout is ridiculous and far from usable.

However, if you are building an app for Picasa, it better have "Picasa" in its
name. The results are probably sorted by relevance (whatever that might be)
and not only by ratings.

------
phil
I'm concerned about this.

App store search has had a heavy bias towards the top 4-5 results. This will
only make that bias stronger.

------
mtgx
Sounds like Apple's algorithm for the App Store is pretty horrible and
primitive. I wonder if most of the success stories came mainly from the fact
that Apple was picking them for their feature lists.

~~~
lbotos
For better or worse apple did acquire chomp sometime back:

[http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-02-27/apple-buys-
chomp...](http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-02-27/apple-buys-chomp-a-
provider-of-tools-for-searching-apps.html)

I'm not sure how much they had to do with this but they actively have people
trying to solve "app store discovery". 95% of Apps I've ever purchased have
been due to personal recommendation or web review. I don't think I've ever
browsed the app store for purchase. (I know I'm in the minority)

------
seangransee
It's unlikely that Apple will fix this any time soon. I can't think of a
single time when Apple gave one of their pre-loaded apps an overhaul except
when releasing the next major version of iOS.

~~~
arn
App Store is basically just a web browser, so easier for them to upgrade. They
do make changes over time that don't require software updates. One big one I
remember is forcing people to have bought an app to be able to rate it. But
you are probably right that a major overhaul in short time isn't their style.

------
Jarshwah
Came expecting news that the app store would not launch in iOS 6. Title is
definitely more provocative than it needed to be.

------
chmars
_'With this new layout, people will be less likely to try out apps that aren’t
at the top of the results.'_

I wish I could try out apps in the App Store, that feature has been missing
from day one.

I agree, however, that it remains very difficult to find apps directly in the
App Store. I mostly go to the App Store via recommendations from friends and
on websites since looking myself for an app, recently for example for a clock
and timer app for my iPad (no longer necessary with iOS 6), has almost never
been a success.

I know most apps are not expensive but neither online nor offline do I like to
spend money for things I don't use, i.e., I need a possibility to check an app
or any other product in advance. Reviews could replace such a check but there
are not very helpful in the App Store either. In my case – living in a
relatively small country – most apps, even popular ones, have no reviews at
all …

------
biftek
Just searched for "picasa" on my (iOS 6) iPad. First two hits were apps that
actually had picasa in the name, (the ones he mentions) followed by his apps.

What exactly his he whining about?

Search for a competing app and his doesn't come up first? Does he also
complain to google (irony) about his page ranking? Why is this on the front
page, let alone #1?

------
sukuriant
Okay. I wanted to see the App Store in action; and ... I'm confused. Is there
any sort of YouTube video that has the more recent app store? I was watching
this review <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO-vcmBjN50> which is allegedly
about iOS 6; and ... that App Store doesn't look bad at all. I mean, I prefer
up-and-down scrolling over horizontal scrolling when I'm looking for things,
but that's nowhere near what was shown in the article. ... Help?

Edit: found one.

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=M...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MbPqEfKRnU0#)!

It looks like it works better on the iPad

------
alecst
The number one search for "picasa" should be Picasa.

~~~
ja27
There is no official Picasa in the iTunes App Store.

~~~
henriks
There is, however, an official YouTube application, which was hit number 10
for the search "youtube", after a bunch of shady video downloader apps. If I
hadn't known there actually was an official application I would've given up
after swiping through the first five.

------
duder
It is indeed broken. A fun daily ritual for me has been to surf new releases
using the 'release date' tab. This is how I find my apps. Some of my favorites
have never been on the 'new and noteworthy', 'editor's choice', or 'top...'
Charts. I don't give a rat's ass what some crap algorithm or hipster-
douchebag-cubicle-jockey-apple-employee considers worthy. Maybe this is a good
thing as I spend way too much money in the App Store.

------
jojopotato
On a side note, could you imagine Google changing their search results to this
kind of layout? I think it would probably trigger a ton of lawsuits.

~~~
pepdek
Google doesn't owe you anything, it's their service and we use their search
engine for free. They'd scoff at every single lawsuit, if it ever got that
far. It might be a bad product decision.

And organizing the app store based on app-store SEO is wise, opens up a new
market and forces devs to reconsider their app design.

------
dcope
I wouldn't say that the App Store is broken, but that it is terribly hard to
use. For instance, after you've searched for something and paged through you
want to view more information so you tap on it. After tapping to go back to
the results, you're placed at the beginning of the results. If you want to
compare applications that are deep within the results it's going to take quite
some time.

------
brevityness
The App Store crashes on my iPod Touch 4th gen whenever I conduct a search. I
can barely flip past the first app before it crashes altogether.

------
beaker
I was very excited when I saw early versions of the new app store that
eliminated the need to page through search results five apps at a time and
replaced it with a scrollable list. Then at the last minute though, it seemed
like Apple had a change of heart and added the screenshot-centered design -
very disappointing from my perspective as both a user and developer..

------
induscreep
I like the new App Store layout. One of the first thing I look for in an app
is how intrusive the ads are - and looking at the screenshots shows me exactly
that. This new layout is perfect for this app search strategy.

~~~
stickfigure
Screenshots are submitted by the app developers. You expect them to include
ads in those screenshots? Comical.

------
bradsmithinc
Hacker News broke your blog.

~~~
slipperyp
I think they put the 18 point font in their all on their own.

------
ojbyrne
I'm looking at it on an iPad that I just upgraded, and it doesn't look like
that. I can see 4 full products, and the top of two more in 2 vertical
columns.

------
acknickulous
It's basically as bad as Nintendo's eShop on the 3DS now.

------
abegoosht
the search function in itune or app store is so primitive and inaccurate that
you want to bite your own head off. i have tried a while now to figure out the
logic behind their search and so far its a dead end. on which planet you
search for sudoku and you find hangman 44 k as the result number 24 on the
list?

------
caycep
isn't this the layout of that app store discovery startup they bought a while
back? chomp or something like that?

~~~
goshon
Yep, same layout exactly.

------
ommunist
In iOS6 I failed to find the way to sort app reviews to see critical first. Am
I alone?

------
binaryorganic
And HN broke this article

------
janlukacs
iOS6 - ugly maps, ugly dialer, ugly appstore. 'nuff said.

