
DHH Commissions his own Supercar - the Pagani Zonda HH - JangoSteve
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/09/07/pagani-zonda-hh-commissioner-revealed-as-30-year-old-chicago-sof/
======
garply
After listening to DHH speak at Startup School a few years ago I came to the
conclusion that for an entrepreneur a "lifestyle business" is a much more
probable path to getting rich than the grow-fast-and-flip approach demanded by
VCs and angel investors.

In retrospect, it seems pretty obvious, but previously I had really only been
exposed to entrepreneurship through PG's blog. I had never heard of 37 Signals
before. I appreciate PG's writing because it made me realize that starting my
own business was a realistic option, but I wish I had been introduced to
entrepreneurship by 37 Signals instead. I wasted more than a half a year
building free web services before I figured out I should specifically be
building things that I could charge customers money for.

Embarrassing to admit, but true.

~~~
pg
Investors want the companies they fund to grow fast, but they don't want to
"flip" them. They'd much prefer that they grew into large, independent
companies, like Google and Facebook. When companies get sold at earlier
stages, it's more often because the founders wanted to than the investors.

I would never claim that starting a startup (= a company designed to grow very
fast) was the only way to get rich. Anyone can see that's not how most people
get rich. Most people who get rich from starting companies do it by patiently
building slow growing service or niche product businesses.

A startup is the extreme end of the spectrum. It's not for everyone. It's not
for 99% of people probably. But if you're Steve Jobs, or Larry Page, or Mark
Zuckerberg, it turns out that you can do better than the guys patiently
building service or niche product businesses.

~~~
gjm11
Buying lottery tickets is the extreme end of the spectrum. It's not for
everyone. It's not for 99% of people probably. But if you're Andrew Whittaker
or Geraldine Williams or Harold and Helen Lerner[1], it turns out that you can
do better than the guys patiently working at startups.

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lottery_jackpot_records>

~~~
byrneseyeview
The expected value of working on a startup is positive. The social value is
also positive. And I don't think anyone would argue that, on the margin, you
can't do something extra to raise your odds of winning disproportionate to the
extra contribution.

So lotto tickets appear to be a terrible counterpoint.

~~~
gjm11
Explaining jokes is usually an unsatisfactory business for everyone involved,
but:

What's in question is not the value of working in a startup rather than doing
nothing at all, but the value of working in a startup relative to the sort of
business that DHH founded. So far as I know, it's an open question whether
_that_ is positive or negative -- whether you look at the founder's own
interests, or those of society, or the amount by which the founder's extra
skill and efforts can improve the chances of success.

Of course I was not suggesting, and do not believe, that founding a startup is
exactly like buying lottery tickets. I was suggesting that "for such-and-such
people, identified in hindsight by the fact that they were very successful,
founding a startup appears to have been a tremendous success" -- which I took
to be the point PG was making -- is a poor argument for the superiority-for-
some-people of founding a startup over founding a "lifestyle business", since
there may be no good way to know in advance which people they are, and it may
largely come down to luck.

(Which is not the same as saying that there's nothing at all you can do to
help your chances of success. Rather, what making a heroic effort does might
be to move you from the "almost certain to fail" category to the "quite likely
to fail, and some tiny chance of huge success" category, after which it's a
matter of luck. And it's perfectly possible -- and I don't profess to know
whether it's true -- that on the whole you're likely to do better in a
"lifestyle business" in a startup even in that second category.)

~~~
byrneseyeview
My point was that lotto tickets are a _bad decision_ that works out well for
some people. Starting a startup is a _good decision_ that works out poorly for
some people.

It's just not helpful to draw the comparison; it's like hearing someone say
they like a comedian, and then pointing out that John Wayne Gacy was a popular
party performer. The fact that distribution A contains outliers from
Distribution B doesn't mean that A and B are even roughly comparable.

~~~
gjm11
It's like you didn't even read what I wrote.

1\. The relevant question is not "startup versus nothing", it's "startup
versus lifestyle business". How do you know that choosing a startup in that
context is a good decision?

2\. I wasn't claiming that startups and lottery tickets are at all the same
sort of thing. I was making a point about saying "X, Y and Z founded startups
and it worked really well for them": that just _isn't good evidence_ that
startups are good in general, or even for any particular (however rare) sort
of person, unless you can say what's special about X, Y and Z other than that
their startups happened to succeed.

------
kenkeiter
... Am I the only one that thinks it looks hideous?

~~~
whatusername
It's a bit flashy. I quite like the photo with the overhead view.

// Part of me wonders if this is just to go in his anti-VC speeches.. "See -
we made a "lifestyle" business and now I drive a custom supercar"

~~~
bl4k
I imagine that as a late-night infomercial

------
twidlit
For a guy running a "lifestyle" business, he's doing pretty good...

~~~
jdietrich
Yeah, if this is what founding a "dipshit company" or a "lifestyle business"
earns you, count me in.

DHH has a lot of critics, but remarkably few of them drive supercars.

~~~
pwpwp
By that analogy, you'd have to be a mass murderer to criticize Hitler. ;)

~~~
run4yourlives
Um, I suppose if you were trying to argue about how to best murder an entire
race of people you would.

Hey don't look at me, it's your analogy after all.

------
llimllib
DHH is _that_ rich?

~~~
brown9-2
The article also has this..

 _Heinemeier Hansson is based in Chicago, but since the Zonda was never
homologated to U.S. specifications, reports indicate that the owner bought a
vacation home in Italy just so he could drive the thing. Now that's
dedication._

~~~
ludistan
DHH is actually born in Copenhagen, Denmark, so I don't think he would need a
vacation home in Italy just so he could drive his new car. But they do have
bigger restrictions on the roads in Denmark...

~~~
wazoox
Bigger than what? in 2008 I found that overall danes drive very fast and
apparently radar and cops are few :)

------
dfischer
I'm not jealous, I'm not jealous, I'm not jealous. I'm not.... jea...

Fk it. I'm Jealous. I want to be that rich. :(

~~~
lionhearted
> I want to be that rich.

Are you working on it? What are your financial goals for 12 months from now, 3
years, and 5 years? How much active cash per year, passive, and how much in
the bank over those timeframes?

Start with the numbers, then figure out what you'd have to do to get to the
numbers. Nothing's stopping you. Really. Start now. How much do you want in
the bank in 12 months?

~~~
bl4k
Most people who become that right are super-poor one day, and then
ridiculously rich the next. You don't get to be a multi-millionaire by
gradually saving every year or 'making goals'

If you are so obsessed with money, the goal should be to make something that
lots of people want and pay money for, and/or in-turn sell it to somebody else
who will give you a lot of money for it.

------
JangoSteve
BTW, here is what DDH had to say (before it was revealed who exactly had
commissioned this car). So far as I can tell, this was originally posted in
the Zonda forums which requires a login (I found it reposted at the link below
[1]).

\--------------------------------------------------------

It turned out to be even cooler, though. I've basically commissioned Pagani to
build me a special one-off that's going to be called the Pagani Zonda HH.
It'll use most of the bodywork of a Zonda F Roadster, but have the upgraded
680 hp Cinque engine as well as the carbon-titanium tub, ceramic coated
titanium exhaust, etc. The car is going to weigh around 1210 kg (2670 pounds).

I'm currently in the midst of designing this car with Mr. Pagani and his team
of designers. It's going to be complete this year.

 __ __ __ __ __ __*

Thanks for all the kind words, guys. I certainly don't fit the standard
profile of Zonda owners these days. The majority of recent customers either
run their own countries, are part of some royal family, sheiks, or
distinctively old money. So I think it's been fun for the Pagani team to deal
with someone who actually still have to worry what stuff costs and is about
the same age as many of the employees wink.gif.

The color is likely going to be Monterrey Blue or a close variety of that.
I've wanted a Lamborghini in that color since forever, but it never came to
pass, so now I'm trying it on the Zonda. We're currently playing with a few
yellow highlights as well, but that's not a sure thing yet.

The design and the specs are indeed an open buffet of everything Pagani has
worked on with the Zonda for the last 10 years. I've been picking and choosing
stuff. My car, I believe, is going to be the only stick car mated with the
new, more powerful engine. Most of the recent cars have been paddle cars.
Which is kinda funny, because usually I love paddles, but for the Zonda, it
seems to fit very well as a manual. The car is very much a simple, mechanical
car. Not a lot of computers in there, so a stick seemed to fit it as well.

The default choice, though, is to use the newest of everything. So center-lock
wheels, the new F1-based ceramic coated titanium exhaust system (it's
stunning, same system as you can see on the Zonda R), carbon-ceramic brakes,
the carbon-titanium tub (only road car in the world using that, it's about 30%
lighter than carbon-fiber and even stronger), and of course the new 680 hp AMG
V12.

We're currently trading renderings back and forth. They'll send me a rendering
and I'll draw some ideas on it and we'll bounce back and forth. I'm hoping
that we'll have the visual design locked down by next week and I can share
some final pictures. It's going to look like a cross between the Cinque and
the F. I'm not going to have the Cobra-style air intake on top (that was a
little much!) and the front is F too.

Also, I'm definitely buying this to drive and keep it forever. It's not going
to merely sit in a garage museum somewhere, which unfortunately is true of a
fair number of Zonda's. Although, even at this stratospheric pricing, the
Zonda has been doing very well on resale. The incredibly few cars that have
come up for sale has been going for 20-30% over their sales price. But short
of falling on hard times, I don't really care. To me, this is the best
looking, best driving car ever made in the history of cars. Why would I want
to sell that?

So far, Pagani has made 118 Zonda's. 3 of them has been totaled, so there are
currently 115 left. He's currently wrapping up some of the special editions,
like the Zonda R and Tricolore, but the new car is coming soon, so they
estimate that no more than 120-125 Zonda's will ever be made. That's about the
same number of cars as McLaren made of the F1.

\--------------------------------------------------------

[1] [http://www.teamspeed.com/forums/supercars/45181-zonda-
hh.htm...](http://www.teamspeed.com/forums/supercars/45181-zonda-hh.html)

------
adelevie
Does it scale?

~~~
mahmud
The HH runs on pedestrians.

~~~
adelevie
The HH runs on a combination of dry code and relational algebra.

~~~
mahmud
You mean crud?

~~~
adelevie
crud is the emission. good thing it's renewable/reusable. ok i'm done now
goodnight.

------
whatusername
<http://www.zondahh.com/>

That has photos of the car under construction

~~~
baxter
Looks like the website is a tumblr. Not Rails?

~~~
petercooper
I'd suspect Pagani or a PR agency are running it, not him.

~~~
tjogin
Even if it is him, I don't think DHH would create a Rails based blog just for
the purpose of posting pics of his pet project. DHH is a pragmatic guy, and
Tumblr is an excellent tool.

~~~
petercooper
Yeah, that's true. It's been a few years since the discussion but the
37signals blog was on Wordpress at some point (might still be) and pragmatism
was cited. I agree with this and my own Ruby blog is on Wordpress too ;-) Ruby
blog solutions mostly suck.

------
code_duck
I can't say I'm impressed by the self-indulgent, flashy way this businessman
chooses to spend his wealth. Sure, it's typical - exactly that. It's clear
that _why was right on about the AXE Body Spray.

~~~
sbaqai
Everyone has hobbies. Auto-racing just happens to be one where the cost can
range from a few thousand to a realm of unlimited funds. I'm sure John
Carmack's rocketry escapades aren't cheap either.

I'm not sure what's self-indulgent or flashy about it. The costs involved are
perhaps at a scale that you and I are not use to, but its just another level
up. And then there's the Jeff Bezos's and Richard Bransons, who have their own
hobbies, done at the stratospheric cost scale.

You're talking about conspicuous consumption, buying things for the express
purpose of displaying wealth. You don't exactly buy a bespoke 680hp barely
street-legal race car that can't even be driven in your own country for that
purpose.

~~~
code_duck
Right, you buy a bespoke 680hp race car for the purpose of masturbation,
essentially. Some people choose to invest in other companies. Some people
choose to operate charities or donate to them. Others may invest in something
that holds its value, like real estate. What type of person spends their money
on stuff like this? Not a particularly interesting person.

~~~
stevefarnworth
Actually, a one-off supercar will more than hold its value. Its value should
actually increase (especially seeing as the Zonda it's based on is ending its
short production run), as has been shown by the values of Ferrari Enzos which
have almost doubled since production ended.

So, from an investment standpoint, it's sound.

Plus, it's his money. He (if it is DHH who bought it) can spend it how he
likes, and he likes cars, and has the ability to fulfil a desire. You'd rather
he buys _another_ house/apartment? Why? Where's the point in that? Why not
take a job in a 7/11 and "get-by" at the end of the week? In fact, why not
just put all your money in a low-yield bond and sleep in a tent? Why spend
money at all? Why earn money at all?

I will assume you don't like cars or see the point in supercars in general? I
was lucky enough to drive a Ferrari F355 around a racetrack a few years back
and it was one of the best experiences of my life - because I'm a car fan. A
part of me loves them, and my desire to own one isn't as a status-symbol, it's
for the feeling I get when I clip an apex on the limit of grip on a racetrack.

Also, from my standpoint, someone who'd rather invest their hard earned money
in something sensible than something they truly want isn't a particularly
interesting person...

~~~
code_duck
I consider the social value of this to be about equivalent to 'DHH stocks his
vacation home with $1m in cocaine'.

He could say, go race a stock car, have about as much fun, and fund 20
startups as an angel investor. Instead, he's blowing his money on expensive
thrills.

~~~
stevefarnworth
No. What you suggest is socially destructive, buying an expensive car is
socially neutral. Why such an aversion to expensive cars? I'd rather live in a
studio apartment with a Ferrari, than a 4 bedroom house (which I don't need -
as it's just me) with a "normal" car.

Besides - why the heck should a private guy have to do anything of social
value with his money? What, you want him to fund your startup with his hard-
earned cash? Why should he?

There is nothing that says an entrepreneur has to spend their wealth investing
in startups. Tom Perkins commissioned the Maltese Falcon, Larry Ellison
(co)owns The Rising Sun, Elon Musk founded a freaking space-ship company
because he _wanted_ to.

This: "Instead, he's blowing his money on expensive thrills." Why shouldn't
he? It's his money, he's not harming anyone by doing it, is he? Owning an
expensive car doesn't mean you do anything illegal or immoral with it.

------
jonknee
For the inevitable curiosity, apparently these run in [at least] the $350,000
range. It's never cheap to hit 0-60 in 3.7s or less.

[http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0212_pagani_z...](http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0212_pagani_zonda_c12s/index.html)

~~~
ctkrohn
If you're looking for value, the $75k Corvette Z06 can accelerate that
quickly.

[http://www.autoguide.com/manufacturer/chevrolet/2010-chevrol...](http://www.autoguide.com/manufacturer/chevrolet/2010-chevrolet-
corvette-z06-1263.html)

~~~
run4yourlives
Yeah, but it's a Corvette.

------
bluethunder
I guess the zonda 'drives' home dhh's 'lifestyle business' philosophy probably
more than anything else.

------
elxrr
Well, he is in his own words "a gentleman racer".

------
mkramlich
you know maybe I need to take a second look at this whole SaaS business model,
hmmmmm..... ;)

