
DC Police Department monitors gunshots with acoustic rooftop sensors - _pius
http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/shotspotter-detection-system-documents-39000-shooting-incidents-in-the-district/2013/11/02/055f8e9c-2ab1-11e3-8ade-a1f23cda135e_story.html
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tokenadult
This system has been used in Minneapolis for a while already, and you can view
the maps of local gunshots detected by the system.[1] Once in a while, the
police have to test the system with police gunshots to calibrate the
microphone network.[2] ShotSpotter appears, based on the experience of
Minneapolis, to have rather limited usefulness for deterring or prosecuting
gunshot crimes. But maybe it aids prevention of crime if police respond to
where the gunshots are usually fired with preventive patrols.

[1] [http://www.minneapolismn.gov/police/statistics/crime-
statist...](http://www.minneapolismn.gov/police/statistics/crime-
statistics_codefor_shotsfired)

[2]
[http://www.startribune.com/local/blogs/224931852.html](http://www.startribune.com/local/blogs/224931852.html)

~~~
viraptor
Looking at the ShotSpotter reports... this is crazy. I was aware that some
shootings happen, but it seems like Minneapolis has 4-5 shootings per week on
average. Really depressing idea. 4-5 in a year would probably be a high number
for my area (in the UK though).

~~~
ledge
I came here to post the same links to the Minneapolis PD ShotSpotter page.
What's more depressing is that nearly all the shootings are concentrated in a
few North Minneapolis neighborhoods. I've hung out in those neighborhoods a
lot and I would hear gunshots, see shot-out street lights, etc. especially at
night.

Crime is way down in Minneapolis since the mid-1990s though, apparently in
1995 North Minneapolis blocks had the highest rate of violent crime per capita
in the nation.

Looking at this table of murders by city internationally, it should be pretty
obvious what all these locations have in common...

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate)

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bluedino
Saginaw, Michigan has been using the shotspotter for years. It's a huge joke
in the community. It doesn't even work most of the time.

Allegedly there are plenty of ex-police chiefs and such involved with this
company, and government grants pay for the installation of the product. It
lets authorities know, i n theory, when and where gunshots occur. That's it.

It's not tied into some Hollywood satellite video system where two seconds
after a gun is fired, the aftermath and fleeing suspects are caught on tape.
It doesn't even produce any evidence that can be used in court.

~~~
corresation
It is disturbing that a city of 50,000 would need something like this.

In any case, all the advocates of the system claim is that it "lets you know
when and where a gunshot occurs". That's it. I see no one claiming more, yet
can appreciate how knowledge when and where a gunshot occurs can be useful to
law enforcement.

~~~
Wingman4l7
> It is disturbing that a city of 50,000 would need something like this.

It's sad that a police department of a city of 50,000 is using the purchase of
such a system to justify their budget.

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sillysaurus2
Do you think ShotSpotter paid a PR agency to get this article published?

[http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html)

(Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. I'm just curious.)

~~~
eli
It's certainly possible -- I guess you could email the author and ask whether
he was pitched the idea or not -- but the article says the data came from a
public records request and the analysis was done by the Post. I don't think
you can jump to conclusions any way.

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Anechoic
Previous discussion about acoustic gun detection systems:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4034528](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4034528)

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rickybobby1321
I have never seen these on the roof, however, I have seen them posted on
telephone poles and light posts all throughout Chinatown

[http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/cover/2009/0213/1.jpg](http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/cover/2009/0213/1.jpg)

~~~
brk
That just looks like a "standard" camera box. Probably some kind of little NVR
in it, along with a wireless network node of some sort (mesh, 4G, etc.).

There isn't any single company that supplies those, but there are a handful of
security dealers that essentially assemble them.

That one looks like it might be old, the PTZ on the bottom looks like a really
old Pelco unit.

~~~
jevinskie
I was told that many of the boxes in Chicago just have fake cameras and a blue
flashing light to let you know you're being "watched". Not sure if it is true
or not but you can buy fake security cameras.

~~~
brk
You can certainly buy fake cameras. You can also buy real cameras for under
$40 and just not hook them up.

Many cities are starting to deploy these municipal surveillance boxes, many
with grant funding. So, it's hard to say which are real and which are not
anymore.

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zhte415
A very related link to a project I'm unaffiliated with, but which I've been
aware of for some time: Homicide Watch. It follows homicides in DC (largely
shooting related) from incident through trial and the wider ramifications.
Politico-journo-techno-mashup.
[http://homicidewatch.org/](http://homicidewatch.org/)

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throwaway0094
These systems are pretty good at detecting fire crackers and backfiring cars.
E.g., check out this recent map of results:

[http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups/public/@mpd/document...](http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups/public/@mpd/documents/webcontent/wcms1p-116173.pdf)

Only a few of those points are actually shootings.

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mhb
Wired article about Shot Spotter:

[http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.04/shotspotter.html](http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.04/shotspotter.html)

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aaroneous
The Oakland police dept have been using ShotSpotter for 5+ years.

~~~
eli
They've actually been in DC for 8 years. The article is about crunching the
data they've collected so far.

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krallja
I remember this level in Deus Ex. Luckily I hadn't really developed my
firearms tree; more hacking and lock picking.

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doughj3
Troy, NY tried this for a few years. They got rid of it because it's expensive
and ineffective.

[http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Troy-will-turn-
off-S...](http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Troy-will-turn-off-
ShotSpotter-3994808.php)

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PhasmaFelis
> _The network covers only a third of the city, focusing on the police
> districts with the most violent crime._

That's refreshingly novel. Usually police coverage is concentrated in the less
violent but wealthier districts.

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smokey_the_bear
I heard rumors this year that these are installed in my neighborhood in
Berkeley, but that they don't work at all on July 4th due to all the fireworks
false positives.

~~~
Zancarius
Gosh, where I live, it'd be useless during much of the year, what, with the
rednecks and the backfiring vehicles and such. ;)

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gojomo
Is there an app for that?

(I suspect there will be, soon. It's a simple matter of software – and battery
life – once everyone is carrying a networked microphone.)

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tocomment
Would this be good for listening for breaking glass?

That would be great for detecting breakins and car theft, no?

~~~
tocomment
Actually they could develop a new model you install inside a house and listens
for windows breaking.

That would be better than the expensive of putting a sensor on every window of
a house for an ADP type system.

~~~
drivingmissm
This already exists.
[http://www.benchmarkmagazine.com/intruder_tests_detail.php?t...](http://www.benchmarkmagazine.com/intruder_tests_detail.php?testsID=33)

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NN88
Who said the military industrial complex doesn't create anything of benefit?
LOL

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pekk
The gall of this surveillance state. What about the Constitution? How dare
they monitor gun-owning Patriots like this!

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coldcode
What a terrible idea. If you know it exists and want to shoot someone, just
get a bunch of random people to shoot in the air all over town. Or even better
get a few speakers and some youtube videos of people shooting. Audio is so
easy to fake.

~~~
ceejayoz
> If you know it exists and want to shoot someone, just get a bunch of random
> people to shoot in the air all over town.

The cops catch a few and likely trace the requests back to you via use of plea
bargains.

> Or even better get a few speakers and some youtube videos of people
> shooting.

Oh yes, even better. Traceable evidence, with fingerprints and maybe purchase
records! Not to mention the system to set them all off at the right time.

By the way, use of these tactics escalate the murder charge to first degree
when they catch you, as it's pretty clearly premeditated.

