
Parents and students in Kansas have concerns about the Summit Learning program - djoldman
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/21/technology/silicon-valley-kansas-schools.html
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MichaelSalib
The idea that children should spend their days staring at screens and never
interacting with other human beings seems really sick. But oh so on brand for
the Valley.

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fred_is_fred
It fits into the narrative that the Zuckerburg's want for their target market
-- a peron that you can track everything they read and learn and consistently
target with ads all day long.

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yellowapple
I can't tell if you meant "person" or "peon". Both do fit, though.

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barryparr
Our daughter is enrolled in a Summit school in the Bay Area. It’s been a very
positive experience and not one I’d recognize from the way it’s described in
the story. Her teachers are extremely available and supportive, and there’s a
lot of emphasis on group and individual projects and presentations.

But I would agree that a lot of the linked resources in the curriculum are not
of very high quality. I don’t know whether better sources at the appropriate
reading level aren’t available, or if they just grabbed something from the
first page of Google results.

I’m wondering if some of the issues in the story have to do with the
implementation of the program and not the program itself.

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schoolboard
I'm a board member of a school district, and I have to say I was shocked at
the resistance to trying new methods of learning from both the administration
and educators in our districts. Flat out statements that "kids can't learn
from computers," while not universal, were common. Resistance to change is
enormous. Combine this with the education industrial complex that has built up
around traditional schools, and getting anything done is very very hard.

So I would have a view that there was likely some bumpy implementation, that
there were some grumpy parents, and the teachers were more than happy to have
the rebellion established. Don't underestimate a passive-aggressive
implementation approach as an attempt to scuttle the whole thing. (I had a
teacher for my son when common core was established, who literally told all
the parents "my job now is just to hand out worksheets every day." And that's
what she did. Even though that was obviously not the intent of common core.)

So yes -- poor implementation in an environment that easily rolls small
snowballs into avalanches that hit the NYT.

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killjoywashere
> I had a teacher for my son when common core was established, who literally
> told all the parents "my job now is just to hand out worksheets every day."
> And that's what she did.

Wow, that sounds like exactly what we heard from the teachers in our
daughter's school. My mom is a math professor who helps write high school
curriculum and was initially a big proponent of Common Core. She has tutored
my daughter through common core and now 5000 miles away in a third-world
country. She has come face-to-face with the fact that something was terribly
wrong. I honestly can't tell if how much was truly common core vs the passive-
aggressive implementation by unwilling teachers, but, you know something's
wrong when you can literally move to a place where the availability of
electric power and fresh vegetables are uncertain, and do better in math.

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mabbo
> “There’s people who don’t want change. They like the schools the way they
> are,” she said. “The same people who don’t like Summit have been the sort of
> vocal opposition to change throughout the process.”

It makes sense that the company would respond this way: those who oppose them
aren't customers, just the people forced to use the product.

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boomboomsubban
This school is so lacking in funds, they can't even guarantee ten minutes of
time with a teacher per week? That's over 200 students per teacher. The new
program likely has some problems, but I'd guess the change is just
highlighting how bad it was before. Except the student with epilepsy, that's
ridiculous.

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foobarbazetc
It’s Kansas. Public education funding was gutted.

That said, the number of parents working in Silicon Valley who would send
their kids to a school that worked like this is very low. The closest thing
would be Alt-School which pretty much failed.

So on one hand, the hypocrisy is annoying. On the other hand, these schools
have no money so maybe this helps them stay open at least.

~~~
treis
>That said, the number of parents working in Silicon Valley who would send
their kids to a school that worked like this is very low

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Many people prefer self directed and
independent learning. And the reality is that once you're out of college
effectively all learning happens that way.

~~~
foobarbazetc
I’m one of these parents, and I know a lot of them.

Most restrict screen time to ... zero. And they’re big names at Google and FB
and whatever.

“Self directed” comes in many different forms. I’m not saying Summit is
negative (although one of the comments on this story references a study that
says it’s net-equal to negative). I’m just pointing out that SF/SV is a weird
place.

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microtherion
> “Self directed” comes in many different forms

e.g. Montessori schools are very much in favor of self directed learning, but
not in the form of computer instruction.

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krapht
This article was pretty light on substantial criticism of the program. I
suppose the most significant was the girl with epilepsy who was advised not to
look at computer screens more than 30 minutes a day. That's definitely
unfortunate.

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spamizbad
I’m all for exploring new ways to educate kids but does anyone else think it’s
kind of weird these experiments are happening in public schools?

Why not set up low-cost private opt-in “Lab schools” instead? That way, if the
experimental program isn’t working for a student they can transfer back to
regular school.

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thelock85
That was the original premise of charter schools, and decades later, the pitch
for AltSchools.

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username223
> Summit demands an extraordinary amount of personal information about each
> student and plans to track them through college and beyond,

Exactly what I would expect from Facebook: schooling means optimizing kids for
maximum engagement.

> In one class covering Paleolithic history, Summit included a link to an
> article in The Daily Mail,

Wait, what? So we're replacing textbooks with random tabloid articles? I'm
sure it saves lots of money to use the ad-supported web as "learning
material."

I'll believe this works when Chan and Zuckerberg enroll their kids in one of
these schools.

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readams
One of the things that worries me about the current approaches to improving
schools is that we focus so much on ensuring a minimum standard for all
students to meet. I think for the future of the country, we should care much
more about ensuring that exceptional students are allowed to excel. An
exceptional student from a wealthy background will get the extra support they
need, but we need a system where exceptional students from any background are
able to reach their real potential.

If something like personalized learning can be made to work, it really has a
ton of potential to realize this vision. It's a major project to really get
this right though. Not sure if Summit has the right approach, but this article
doesn't talk at all about what they're actually doing. It would be nice to see
some much more thoughtful criticism.

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paulryanrogers
Agreed that exceptional students should be given tools to excel. College
admissions is supposed to work that way by accepting the best academically and
supporting them with academic scholarships.

Still, the world is full of people who will not excel at anything. They
deserve help to be their best too.

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ycombonator
Silicon Valley’s mantra for finding suckers(in their minds) in the flyover
country is “we come bearing gifts” and don’t forget the mission to “change the
world”

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kerng
Actual title of the NY times piece: "Silicon Valley Came to Kansas Schools.
That Started a Rebellion."

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908087
How convenient for Zuckerberg that his "learning" program directs children to
click links that send them to ad and tracking filled websites.

This is exactly the type of "philanthropy" I expected from his "charity" when
it was announced.

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nkrisc
Surely they could have used money from the foundation to pay for original
content on subjects instead ofb linking to random websites. Besides, links
die, content can change. There's no guarantee any of those links will be good.

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patrickg_zill
Summit demands an extraordinary amount of personal information about each
student and plans to track them through college and beyond,”

If true, then, this info should have been in the first paragraph ...

