
China Mines Silicon Valley for Tech Talent - raleighm
https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-mines-silicon-valley-for-chinese-tech-talent-1530028118
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l5870uoo9y
And simultaneously the US mines Europe for tech and science talent. 15.000
Germans work in Silicon Valley. Imagine the boost they would give Germany if
they returned or stayed home. It could result in 3000 highly qualified persons
for each of the 5 biggest cities in Germany. It's a well known problem for
Europe:

> Studies of the best physicists in the world show that the Europeans working
> in North America are some of the most renowned in their fields. In 2014, an
> expert panel warned German Chancellor Angela Merkel that the country was
> losing its best scientists, and a recent report from the Institut Montaigne,
> a French think tank, argues, “The academics who leave France for the United
> States are the best, the most prolific and the best integrated on an
> international scale.”

Source:
[https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/europe/2016-01-05/eu...](https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/europe/2016-01-05/europes-
lost-generation)

~~~
gaius
_It 's a well known problem for Europe_

No, it’s a meta-problem. The real problem is the structural underpaying of
STEM workers in Europe. I mean we can go down the path of “sacrifice your own
interests for the good of your country” but no one, particularly Germany wants
that. So pay is the only lever. And every business manager actually knows
this.

~~~
toomanybeersies
Is it a structural underpayment of tech workers in Europe, or a structural
overpayment in the USA?

Software engineers in the USA are paid an abnormally high amount compared to
similarly qualified professionals in different fields. The median wage for a
software engineer in the USA is about $20k higher than that of a mechanical
engineer, despite having the same level of qualification and a similar
qualification (in my opinion, mechanical engineering actually is a lot harder
than software).

If you're a software engineer in Western or Northern Europe, it's not like
you're hard done by and struggle to make ends meet. You make a perfectly
acceptable wage, similar to any other professional. You also get the benefit
of superior social services, more time off, and job security, which are
certainly not to be sniffed at. One of my friends was offered a year of salary
to leave her job (not in tech) because they couldn't make her redundant. I
know of plenty of Europeans who have been able to take anywhere from 6 to 18
months off work for a sabbatical/backpacking trip around the world, knowing
that their job will be waiting for them when they come back.

Income disparity is just a lot lower in Europe than in the USA. German
mechanical engineers make similar wages to software engineers. German software
engineers make roughly twice the median income, compared to 3 times the median
for the USA. In Australia, software engineers only make roughly 1.5x the
median income, as Australia is a high wage economy.

~~~
yomly
I disagree with your sentiment enough that I want to downvote you (but won't
as that's not what downvotes are for).

STEM workers are absolutely underpaid in the EU for their level of
qualification - a non-CS PhD grad is "lucky" to earn £30k~ GBP after they move
into industry.

£30k pa buys you sweet FA - meanwhile, someone quantitative/techy can go do
trading or make webapps to earn 2-5x more

I'd argue that software engineers aren't overpaid, everyone else is underpaid
- structural wage stagnation is well documented.

~~~
gaius
The British government famously says that technical people should be “on tap,
not on top” and that attitude permeates the entire country, with just a very
few exceptions

~~~
onemoresoop
It's more about experts to be kept on tap and not on top. And it makes sense.

[https://hbr.org/2012/07/keep-experts-on-tap-not-on-
top](https://hbr.org/2012/07/keep-experts-on-tap-not-on-top)

~~~
gaius
Magazine for MBAs says MBAs are brilliant and everyone else is just a
resource. Not very convincing.

~~~
onemoresoop
regardless of the magazine, it was not largely about technical people but
about experts. It's the first time i'm hearing of 'on tap and not on top' and
after reading on what it refers to it made a bit of sense to me. Experts are
brilliant in their narrow field but they are not suitable to be at the top
level. As to who should be on top is very debatable.. There are generally more
examples of bad leadership...

~~~
gaius
That is not what is meant by the government. They mean Oxford PPE or STFU.

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EZ-E
The title is "China Mines Silicon Valley for Tech Talent" but according to the
article, they are recruiting Chinese engineers working in USA. That's an
important distinction.

From my experience it's true, unless you are ethnic Chinese, most of the
Chinese companies won't be interested in hiring you

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tjpnz
As much as I dislike the Chinese government I'm struggling to see an issue in
this. Chinese companies are not the only ones recruiting abroad and in this
particular case they seem to be only targeting Mandarin speakers. If people
are concerned about a brain drain shouldn't they be more concerned with
companies in countries that are actively going after English speakers? I'm a
software dev in Japan, domestic tech companies here are beginning to do just
that.

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neonate
[http://archive.is/5jGgO](http://archive.is/5jGgO)

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fubwert
I worry that measures by the US government aimed at stopping the sale of
companies and IP undermine property rights. When the government says “they are
stealing our technology,” it implies that the tech, companies, and IP are
owned by the state rather than the company and inventor.

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im3w1l
I don't think it's a binary. The state claims some power over over it, and it
claims a fraction of the profit. But not all of it. So you don't fully own it,
but you kind of own it. Same goes for real estate where they reserve the right
to tax it and impose restrictions on what you can do with it.

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beilabs
China has been doing this for a long time now.

To get a leg up in the solar industry China provided research grants to the
very best in the field as a way to lure them over. Chinese investments in
science and tech has skyrocketed in the last two decades.

* I was one of those people who moved to China for a few years to work in software over a decade ago.

~~~
ainiriand
How, if ever, you felt the lack of information freedom? Is it so polluted as
it looks?

~~~
donttrack
> How, if ever, you felt the lack of information freedom?

Never really thought about it except those times I forgot to pay my VPN

> Is it so polluted as it looks?

Cleaner than my home town in Scandinavia. Was living in South part of China.

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ryandrake
A company I used to work for several years ago (technically American, but
effectively a Chinese company), offered very tempting and lucrative “work in
China for 6 months” incentives. Like US salary and subsidized housing in
Shanghai. If I wasn’t married with a kid, I’d have jumped at the chance.

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baybal2
The case of Qian Xuesen instantly comes to mind:

[https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-02-06/us-trained-
scientist-...](https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-02-06/us-trained-scientist-
was-deported-then-became-father-chinese-rocketry)

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segmondy
X mines Y for talent [ IS EQUAL TO ] X pays much better than Y.

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suhastech
Bypass the paywall:
[http://facebook.com/l.php?u=https://www.wsj.com/articles/chi...](http://facebook.com/l.php?u=https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-
mines-silicon-valley-for-chinese-tech-talent-1530028118)

~~~
rhapsodic
Open that link in a private tab to insure that it works.

