
The koshering of the Oreo cookie (2008) - Mz
http://news.cornell.edu/stories/2008/02/getting-lard-out-koshering-oreo-cookie
======
stickfigure
I remember liking Oreos as a kid in the 80s, but I tried one recently and it
was chalky and horrible. I just assumed it was a combination of lossy memory
and undeveloped childhood tastes.

But apparently I'm not crazy, and Oreos _were_ more delicious back then!
Curmudgeons everywhere must be feeling a little vindicated right now. I only
wish I had a lawn to yell at kids on.

~~~
kilroy123
It really seems like all junk food has gotten very bad in the last 10+ years.
Cereal, sweats, etc.

~~~
zwieback
I think that's primarily due to cutting out hydrogenated fat, which can really
help texture, and artificial flavors and colors. Time for a true-junk food
revival!

------
vowelless
What did they replace the lard with?

Edit: From wikipedia

> In the early 1990s, health concerns prompted Nabisco to replace the lard in
> the filling with partially hydrogenated vegetable oil.[13]

Isn't partially hydrogenated vegetable oil much worse than lard?

~~~
R_haterade
Yup. This was back when it wasn't, though, back when fat was evil and we had
to completely eliminate it from our diets.

Lard tastes better too. You ever had pie crust that was made with lard instead
of vegetable shortening? Makes you feel like you've been lied to your whole
life.

~~~
ars
> back when fat was evil

Not fat (the replacement was also fat) but rather saturated fat was the evil
one.

~~~
markdown
Is it no longer so? Is saturated fat now considered OK?

~~~
cowmoo728
The tl;dr of it is that large amounts of saturated fat may not be exactly good
for you, but the dangers were grossly over exaggerated. You should probably
still eat mostly vegetables, but you can put some butter and lard on things
and not feel guilty.

------
Animats
"Kosher" is no longer a set of objective standards. That ended when two Jewish
groups fought it out in court over New York State's kosher inspection law in
1991. They were arguing over which rabbi got to declare that something was
kosher.[1] A Federal judge ruled that government can't take a position on that
issue, because it's an establishment of religion to do so. So New York State
got out of the kosher-inspection business.

There are many kosher inspection groups in the US, especially in Brooklyn, NY,
which has at least sixteen.[2]. There's a whole "more kosher than you" thing
going there. In Israel, where the government is heavily involved, it's used as
a competitive weapon to stop some imports.[3]

[1] [http://www.nytimes.com/2000/08/04/nyregion/judge-voids-
law-c...](http://www.nytimes.com/2000/08/04/nyregion/judge-voids-law-
certifying-kosher-food.html) [2]
[http://www.crcweb.org/agency_list.php](http://www.crcweb.org/agency_list.php)
[3] [http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-how-food-importers-use-
ra...](http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-how-food-importers-use-rabbis-to-
block-competition-1001161785)

~~~
chimeracoder
> "Kosher" is no longer a set of objective standards.

While it's true that there are different interpretations of what constitutes
kosher food, it's not really relevant here, as none consider pork to be
kosher.

~~~
kbutler
How about the blowtorching of existing ovens which have previously been used
to cook pork products? Is that always "kosher"?

That was the most interesting tidbit to me, and seems like requirements for
that procedure could easily vary between certifying organizations.

~~~
ars
> Is that always "kosher"?

Yes, that is always required. The basic rule: The same type of heat that was
used to cook the food, is the same type of heat needed on the vessel to clean
out the food. The minimum heat is boiling water.

Since an oven gets very hot, you need high heat to clean it. (Hot enough that
a tissue pressed on the metal turns black - it doesn't need to glow red hot.)

> and seems like requirements for that procedure could easily vary between
> certifying organizations.

No, that's not one of the things that vary, that one's universal.

To an outsider, the stuff that varies would seem very minor. It won't be
anything large like this.

------
irrational
I've thought that Oreos don't taste as good as they did when I was a kid. I
thought it was just faulty memory or taste buds going bad or seeing the past
with rose colored glasses, but maybe they really don't taste as good ;-)

------
Turing_Machine
No mention of Hydrox cookies, which were a) kosher from the beginning and b)
the original cookie of which Oreo is a knockoff.

They were far better than Oreos, in my memory, but sadly they went off the
market some time ago.

They've recently been revived, but I haven't tried the new ones. No animal
fats. No HFCS.

------
carsongross
Nassim Taleb has written on this phenomenon:

[https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-
dict...](https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-
of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15)

------
Teever
This sounds incredibly expensive.

What was the profit motive for this?

~~~
R_haterade
Selling to jews and (probably moreso) Muslims. When you can't sell your HFCS
confection to 25% of the world's population, you start to think about these
things.

Edit: confabulation->confection

~~~
brianwawok
Oreos still have HFCS and all kinds of unhealtly stuff. In fact more unhealthy
than lard.

~~~
R_haterade
This is about selling ice cream, though. Most of which had HFCS in it,
especially in '97.

~~~
brianwawok
And so do oreos. I don't get the point.

