

New Japanese Pop Idol Shocks Fans With News - She’s Not Real - kkleiner
http://singularityhub.com/2011/06/22/new-japanese-pop-idol-shocks-fans-with-news%e2%80%93shes-not-real-video/

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patio11
This is only a little bit weirder on the continuum of what we already do for
pop starlets, both in Japan and the United States. Japan has been
manufacturing them -- that is totally the right word, too -- for about 30
years. Disney cottoned onto it a bit later. These days producers already have
the key personality traits, demographic fit, sound, and marketing campaign for
the new brand already planned out prior to launch, then they just need to find
the least important component, the actual girl. They have perfected it so
instead of the fund-a-thousand-bands-have-one-breakout-success label model
they pick that, e.g., Miley Cyrus _will_ be the next big thing for twelve year
olds and then they make it happen.

If Disney could produce popstars in a laboratory they would.

For folks interested in how the Japanese content industry does it, see Merry
White's books on the Japanese youth culture, particularly as it regards
magazines. (They might need an update for the Internet age, but not all that
much of one.)

~~~
bane
That manufacturing also appears to carry a considerable investment (or
possible payoff). One initially wonders why, when manufactured pop stars
spectacularly flame out, that they are simply told to go low profile for a
while then come back and act like nothing happened...until you think of them
as a multi-million dollar entertainment machine their managers no doubt poured
tons of money into in the form of singing lessons, dancing lessons, acting
lessons, language lessons, etc. plus the money spent on building up "brand"
awareness etc.

I follow Korean pop culture more than Japan's, but I definitely have a sense
that the K-POP labels have virtual stables of up and coming "properties",
getting paid little, living in bunks with other stars-in-training and eating
instant noodles, but being given the very best in song and dance lessons for
hours a day, waiting to be selected by their manager to begin a nationwide PR
blitz and concert series for at least 2 years of "instant" stardom, then
cultural obscurity.

I imagine that something no entirely dissimilar happens in the U.S., but the
feeder system is all different...

The K-Pop starlet BoA is one I remember very well (also semi-popular in Japan
if I understand correctly), chosen at about 13 (years ago), dropped out of
school and "manufactured" through endless training programs to become what she
is today. Interestingly, she was an investment by her label specifically for
export to the U.S. and Japan. She hasn't done well in the States, but her
label seems happy with her performance across the Sea of Japan, infiltrating
J-Pop. Her interviews in the States (in very good, but accented English) came
across as weird, slightly aloof, uncomfortable and detached...kind of what
you'd expect out of somebody who has never really lived a normal life.

~~~
ralfd
Is there in Korea (Asia) a counter culture to pop? The western youth is
regularly driven like a pendulum to alternative and uncommercialised styles
like Hippies, punk, grunge, electro. The stereotypical hipster who only likes
obscure music and independent art by starving but true artists.

~~~
kobepanda
There is a very active youth crew hardcore scene in Korea. Nicest group of
people in world because they are actually a minority and are always hungry for
like-minded people.

~~~
stcredzero
Scenes are generally full of nice people, until they get popular.

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w1ntermute
It's amazing how Gibson predicted this sort of thing almost 20 years ago:
<https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Idoru>

~~~
Klinky
The 1994 anime "Key: The Metal Idol" had a similar idea as well.
[https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Key_the_Metal...](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Key_the_Metal_Idol)

We could also even go back to Fritz Langs's 1927 film Metropolis:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolis_%28film%29>

~~~
FiddlerClamp
I was thinking "Sim0ne" from 2002 with Al Pacino: "A producer's film is
endangered when his star walks off, so he decides to digitally create an
actress to substitute for the star, becoming an overnight sensation that
everyone thinks is a real person."

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tl
There's also Hatsune Miku, a Japanese singer created in software:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatsune_Miku>

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTXO7KGHtjI>

~~~
DarkShikari
Miku is the polar opposite though -- she's a character that _anyone_ can use
to create their own albums, merchandise, comics, and so forth. The real
product is the software itself, which the character has, of course, so
effectively promoted.

Effectively, Miku is a sort of "democratized" form of pop culture: instead of
a single media company tightly controlling a pop star, it's the masses who
reap the benefits.

Hatsune Miku is to Japanese pop idols what Touhou is to popular traditional
franchises like Gundam -- and accordingly, has grown in popularity at nearly
unheard-of rates. If we're lucky, the next few decades will have more and more
of this: pop culture made by consumers, for consumers, for the benefit of
consumers.

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sthlm
This reminds me of S1m0ne (<http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0258153/>), in which a
CG actress is developed and the producer (unlike this case) attempts to keep
it a secret.

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kalleboo
They also have a flash site where fans can create their own ideal member using
parts from the other girls, and then share and rank each other's creations
<http://www.icenomi.com/oshimen/index.html>

~~~
jrockway
I wrote a CPAN module to do something similar:
Acme::MorningMusume::ShinMember:

[http://search.cpan.org/~jrockway/Acme-MorningMusume-
ShinMemb...](http://search.cpan.org/~jrockway/Acme-MorningMusume-
ShinMember-0.01/lib/Acme/MorningMusume/ShinMember.pm)

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astine
If all our celebrities were CG-generated illusions... what would all the
tabloids print to sell magazines? Actual news? I think I'm looking forward to
the future!

~~~
thyrsus
I doubt you can libel a fiction, so I think the tabloids would get even more
creative. Ambush photographers would be replaced by cheaper digital
choreographers.

~~~
astine
But then you'd be violating copyright. Also it'd be stupid; It's not like
people won't realize that the pop-stars aren't real.

~~~
ahi
The pop-stars aren't real now, they just happen to be played by flesh and
blood actors.

~~~
noonespecial
Yes but those flesh and blood actors have some very peculiar failure modes
once the weight of fame rests on them. This makes for great gossip news.

------
DanielBMarkham
Now automate the entire thing.

20 years from now. You are befriended on Facebook++ by a person who looks
somewhat like all the previous girlfriends you have had. Initiating a 3-D
video chat, she seems very friendly and has a lot of the same interests as you
do. Every now and then -- so infrequently that you do not notice -- she
mentions a particular brand or commercial product, always providing a link.
Other than that, she's just a great friend. Always there to provide advice,
always willing to cheer you up, always enjoying your jokes and stories. Heck,
maybe she's even willing to help you out with your startup, providing
introductions to her friends and helping you with your marketing. Maybe she
helps locate your next big client. Great stuff, eh?

Except she doesn't exist.

~~~
pyre
It's already happening to some extent with real people. There was an article
that passed through here a while back that had interviews with ex-419
scammers. One of them was making a living by pretending to be the online
girlfriend of some guy. He talked about it in much the same way. He would give
him advive, cheer him up, etc. He was essentially 'farming' the guy for money.
But this means that he had to deliver real value to the guy to keep stringing
him along.

~~~
jedschmidt
This business model has been popular in Japan since cellphones got email:

[http://www.cnngo.com/tokyo/play/deaikei-duties-posing-
online...](http://www.cnngo.com/tokyo/play/deaikei-duties-posing-online-
woman-355918)

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prewett
I immediately thought of Sharon Apple, in "Macross Plus"
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharon_Apple#Sharon_Apple>), although I suppose
Hatsune Miku is really the modern Sharon Apple, sans sentience.

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yoshyosh
I always find it interesting how easily we can be fooled by media, magazines,
and makeup. We can be so quick to create these false paradigms on what is
real. It will be interesting once technology gets to the point where AI robots
can create similar illusions.

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spc476
Several years ago I came across a website that allows you to make an average
face, by averaging the images of multiple people
([http://www.faceresearch.org/demos/average?img=/tomcat/averag...](http://www.faceresearch.org/demos/average?img=/tomcat/average/uploads/img85452.jpg&tem=/tomcat/average/uploads/img85453.tem)).
Averaging two dozen faces produces rather striking results
(<http://boston.conman.org/2007/08/28.1>). Even averaging a few faces produces
better looking people.

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billybob
None of the models on magazine covers are real, either. They're just based on
real people.

This was a great video showing how far from reality Photoshop can take a
picture: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYhCn0jf46U>

We're now to the point where supermodels feel bad about themselves _when they
look at photos of themselves._ That is seriously messed up.

This fictional Japanese video star is just the next nutty step.

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cantbecool
Let us not forget about this gem of Japan:
[http://singularityhub.com/2010/11/09/cant-miss-videos-of-
jap...](http://singularityhub.com/2010/11/09/cant-miss-videos-of-
japans-3d-hologram-rock-star-hatsune-miku-in-hd/)

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snorkel
Is it that hard to cast a real Japanese girl who looks like that?

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horseshoes
Like a computer-generated thing isn't part of reality.

~~~
tvon
I think "not a real person" is implied.

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maeon3
Does this mean that High Definition Video evidence of a suspect performing a
crime does not constitute very strong evidence of that suspect as guilty of
the crime?

~~~
thyrsus
Not in and of itself. Evidence of a crime must have strong provenance, that
is, people testifying to its history and curation. That's the theory. Whether
jurors will be sufficiently sophisticated is a crap shoot - but I'm not
prepared to propose anything better.

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golgo13
Wow, is Youtube absolutely useless for me. Almost 2 minutes to watch a 15
second clip!

