
Poor Man’s Bose – Open Office and on the Go Noise Control - nwrk
http://e1z.ca/code/clog/?p=225
======
bussierem
I'm gonna step in and defend the Bose headphones that he seems to have had
some seriously bad luck with.

I had a pair of wired QC25's as my first pair, and they had some really good
noise cancelling. I could still distantly hear people talk, but when I had
music on them (albeit probably louder than him) I could hear almost nothing.
Regarding Quality: Those QC25s were used when I got them (couldn't justify
full price at the time), and they lasted for about 2.5 years beyond, being
used literally every day for 5+ hours per day (Programming with music is my
thing)

When those broke, I had absolutely no problem justifying what seems to be an
exorbitant price for the newer bluetooth QC35 set. These are far beyond what
the other set were. Nowadays I keep my music much quieter - listening to soft
electronica at maybe 1/4 of the volume I used to, and when I do that, I can't
even hear myself type on my mechanical keyboard, let alone any people talking.
People can come up to my desk and talk directly to me and I won't realize it
unless I see their mouth moving.

I'm not sure why his experience with Bose has been so bad, but I'm more likely
to suspect he got a lemon for his headphones. I have had my QC35's now
for....2 years, with I would average at 6-8h of use every day at work. They
don't have a single iota of visible wear on them, and the battery life is
still 24-32 hours on a single charge. I imagine that, barring any accidents
with them, they will probably last another 2+ years for me.

~~~
tachion
I've tried many and I must agree with the OP - Bose headphones are terrible in
terms of build quality and materials, bad in terms of sound quality, average
when it comes to noise cancelation, poor in terms of features and absolutely
bad at this price tag. I've settled for Sennheiser's Momementum and can't
recommend them more - made of metal and leather, build to last, superb sound
quality, very good noise cancelation and nice features and amazing support.
I'm really surprised they're not discovered by people spending such amount of
money on headphones.

~~~
jjrh
Those Sennheiser are not active noise cancelling which is the defining feature
of Bose QC headphones - and why people are paying the money. Closed back
headphones do work great for blocking noise, but are usually heavier and less
comfortable.

~~~
fossuser
That's been my experience with people who go on about how terrible the Bose
headphones are. You can get passive noise cancelling with Shure in ear phones
(basically ear plugs) that is pretty good, but Bose is by far the best for
active noise cancelling.

Their build quality and sound is also pretty good. I have a decent music
background and also have Sennheiser HD650s which the audiophile crowd loves,
but I think their build quality is cheap plastic (they're also open, require
an amp, and cost $400).

I think the Bose hate is mostly tribal nonsense - it's cool to signal
audiophile virtue by hating a dominant brand that lay people like.

~~~
jjrh
> I think the Bose hate is mostly tribal nonsense - it's cool to signal
> audiophile virtue by hating a dominant brand that lay people like.

I think most of the Bose hate comes from their speakers which cost quite a bit
for the sound quality. Much of that might be historical.

These days though I don't think anyone buys Bose products solely for their
sound quality, they buy them for specific use cases like noise cancelling, or
filling a room with a very small speaker (those Bose sound docks were pretty
incredible when they came out). Bose has done a good job at doing something
unique while offering sound quality that is mostly good enough.

------
ryanianian
I read this as "the work water-cooler was full of poison so I found some cheap
antidote and now I only suffer mild headaches."

I'm glad this person found some inexpensive tech that works for them. But if
we only focus on blocking the sound (which is not that effective for some)
rather than focusing on what it means to have an effective working
environment, we're missing opportunities to shape our working
cultures/environments to be one of "library quiet respectful".

I'm extremely sensitive to sounds of all varieties. I don't understand how
anyone works with music blasting into their ears. Even white/pink/brown-noise
feels like a barrage of sound. Earplugs make me feel claustrophobic, and I
have the uncontrollable urge to rip them out after 15 minutes. Noise-
cancelling tech almost always fails to block human voices (our brains are
hard-wired to listen for voices after all).

At the risk of stating the obvious, we need to pay more attention to making
more "zone-friendly" workspaces. I.e., _not_ loud, open offices where everyone
feels okay talking at full volume.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Unfortunately, we're all doomed to seek workarounds for the time being. A
"zone-friendly workspace" is an abstract concept that will show in
productivity over long time. An open office is cheap _right now_ , and will be
cheaper as headcount increases. Then you have conflicting individual interests
- programmers may dislike open floors, but sales people (apparently) love
them, the bosses love them, and even among programmers there's always this
likable extrovert who likes open floors and is vocal about it, ruining any
chance of collective action.

(It also seems people dislike open floor plans for different reasons. You
don't like sounds. I don't mind sounds, I don't like feeling the presence of
other people around me all the time.)

~~~
amag
> It also seems people dislike open floor plans for different reasons. You
> don't like sounds. I don't mind sounds, I don't like feeling the presence of
> other people around me all the time.

Alas, I suffer both but it's more socially acceptable to blame noise...

~~~
TeMPOraL
Now you make me wonder - maybe we're not the only ones, but people only talk
about noise because the core issue is taboo...

~~~
ken
I don't know if taboo is an accurate description but I agree that we don't
seem to be talking about this issue honestly, on either side. Every manager
I've ever had claimed it was about saving money, but when pushed eventually
admitted it wasn't really about money at all. It's like everybody is afraid to
talk about what it really is about.

------
nimbius
As someone who works in a garage most of the day as a mechanic, just what is
office noise? they all seem pretty quiet to me. What are we trying to reduce?

Around the shop I carry a few pairs of disposable foam Howard Leight earplugs.
They come in small plastic bags, or you can buy them in boxes of 500. I'll
hand them out to apprentices I catch not wearing ear protection or to old
timers so they can sneer at me. they work wonders for any kind of noise. We
once had a garbage truck plow through a rolling dumpster out back and I never
knew about it until lunch.

~~~
Nimitz14
I'm going to piggy back off of your comment to say that I have no problems
working "in the zone" in an open office. I can just ignore what is going
around me. And I had HR sitting right behind me (as in 1.5m away) for a while.
The sales guys were also quite close. Lots of loud phone calls.

Just to bring a counterweight to the usual "I'm a virtuoso that needs absolute
silence to work" stuff that gets posted every time open offices get mentioned.

~~~
Bahamut
I think that is a particular ability - I can do so as well, but I also
recognize that it may be more the exception than the norm.

That said, I very much like private offices more.

------
jccalhoun
I've never used any active noise cancelling headphones. I swear by wearing
shooting or construction style hearing protectors. I wear them on air planes
with my corded earbuds under them. And since I haves tarted a job where I
share an office I definitely swear by them when an officemate starts talking
loudly on the phone. I have these but I only bought them because they were in
stock at the store [https://www.amazon.com/3M-Earmuff-Protectors-Hearing-
Protect...](https://www.amazon.com/3M-Earmuff-Protectors-Hearing-
Protection/dp/B00009LI4K/)

I used to feel weird wearing them on a plane but with big Beats-style
headphones so common now I fit right in.

~~~
MrLeap
My range cans have an aux port and speakers on the inside. Maybe it's
psychosomatic but I stand by the improved effectiveness gained by not breaking
the seal snaking earbud lines under em'. ;)

I use your strategy from time to time though. If it's safe to shoot a .50 cal
in em' it'll probably drown the shrill winging.

If you want to pump up (down?) the jams you can wear inner ear plugs under the
outer ones. It's like a sensory deprivation tank for your mind.

------
fpgaminer
I'm extremely sensitive to noise, so I've tried my fair share of solutions as
well.

In terms of absolutely blocking sound, the best I've found thus far are a pair
of Etymotic in-ear headphones. I don't recall the model I have. They aren't
noise cancelling; they're basically just earplug headphones. But they are
really effectively. Just be sure you use them correctly. It's easy to think
you just plop them in your ear like normal earbuds. You have to insert them
like ear plugs. When done correctly they create a seal and the noise blocking
is incredible, even compared to the big PPE ear equipment I have. Plus they
look just like any other earbuds to other people, so you don't look like a
dork :P

Besides those, the Bose noise cancelling headphones are "okay". As others have
mentioned, they're really poor at blocking nearby voices. If you're going to
be listening to music, that's not much of an issue. But I tend to listen to
podcasts, videos, etc, so there's nothing else extra to drown out what the
headphones miss. And you're paying quite a premium for headphones that, in
terms of build quality, sound quality, and features, are worth maybe 1/3 of
the MSRP. Not much you can do about that; Bose holds patents on the best noise
cancelling.

On a slight tangent. My sensitivities to noise have led me to some ...
interesting solutions over the years living in noisy apartments. Hearing
people's TVs, talking, etc through walls really bothers me. The solution I
came up with was to pump white noise through a subwoofer, turned down really
low. It creates a very subtle, low frequency rumble. It's just loud enough to
drown out the stuff that bleeds through walls, but quiet enough that you
forget it's there. By using just the subwoofer you target the majority of
frequencies that can make it through walls, without adding the annoying "hiss"
of regular white noise machines.

For me that was really effective for dealing with the day-to-day noise of
apartments.

~~~
wishinghand
I have a pair of Grado earbuds that create a seal similar to Etymotics, but
not as deep. Often times people will stand next to me and speak to me and I
won't hear them (music at a moderate volume). I imagine your Etymotics are
even better. The only reason I didn't get Etymotics is because my ears are
super waxy and I didn't want to clean them every usage.

If you have the models I think you do, they're as expensive as the Bose QC35
headphones. However, Etys are easier to pack, have a better sound quality, and
don't need batteries.

~~~
fpgaminer
> If you have the models I think you do, they're as expensive as the Bose QC35
> headphones.

Now you've got me curious; I don't remember them being too pricey.

Looks like I have the MC5. <$100. Specs say they are rated for a noise
reduction of 35-42dB. For reference the safety ear muffs I use are 34dB. (I'm
half tempted now to use the Etys for PPE :P )

~~~
wishinghand
I was thinking of the ER4XR.

------
bitwize
Headphones are _NOT_ a solution to open office plans. When I wear headphones
or earbuds, I can block out the sounds, but I become more sensitive to other
non-sound cues indicating human activity around me such as movement seen out
of the corner of my eye and even air currents. And these become _more_
unnerving with the sound blocked out.

And open office plans are never adopted to "foster collaboration". That's
bullshit that management feeds you to mask the real reasons:

1) they save money by packing more employees in the same space

2) it's an easy-to-implement panopticon, letting management keep tabs on you
easily

~~~
commandlinefan
I keep reading how we're "in demand" and how we're hard to find and retain -
and then we're treated as disposably as fast-food burger-flippers: you're
lucky you even have a job, you ungrateful wretch, so you'd better not complain
about all of your efforts to make it nearly impossible to get your job done.

------
binarysolo
Bose convert here after years of working in open offices, coding in cafes,
flying, and what not. I have somewhat sensitive ears as a classical (hobbyist)
musician and am always paranoid about hearing loss.

My main pain points have been:

1\. Distinct voices in conversation - I find that voices block voices, and
instrumental music does a poorer job at this since it's maybe on different
frequencies? I usually use a cafe-noise app like coffitivity to best stay
focused.

2\. Loud continuous noises a la plane - the Bose headphones basically reduce
the noise by ~20db I think, which makes the experience overall more bearable.

The main downside of noise-canceling headphones for some subset of people
(alas me included) is that you get a weird pressure feeling when using them
for prolonged periods of time. Apparently this is just us perceiving the
change in ambient sound as a pressure difference so we feel like popping our
ears. This basically happens in hour 1 of my usage.

As for attrition - I've had my QC35's for about a year and they haven't had
any issues yet. My old QC25's lasted for 3 years and still work fine but got
donated to make way for my new bluetooth ones.

[https://smile.amazon.com/Bose-QuietComfort-Wireless-
Headphon...](https://smile.amazon.com/Bose-QuietComfort-Wireless-Headphones-
Cancelling/dp/B0756CYWWD?_encoding=UTF8&ie=UTF8&keywords=qc35&pldnCmp=dls&pldnCrt=rdl&pldnNewCustomer=1&pldnSite=1&tag=sdnet-20&qid=1539101946&ref_=smi_ge_cnf_cnf_smi&s=electronics&sr=1-3)
(note affiliatized Amazon donation link)

------
rsync
For a brief moment I was interested in noise cancelling headphones for
airplane usage.

Much, much simpler, cheaper - and certainly more effective - is to use any old
earbuds that you prefer and put them underneath a pair of these:

[https://www.amazon.com/3M-Earmuff-Protectors-Hearing-
Protect...](https://www.amazon.com/3M-Earmuff-Protectors-Hearing-
Protection/dp/B00009LI4K/)

No batteries to deal with, no mode switching, much less expensive, etc. It
works wonderfully and the only downside is that you look a little odd.

~~~
WalterSear
Noise cancelling isn't hearing protection, fwiw. Ear protectors do a much
better job of that, too.

~~~
wenc
Yes, I have a pair of Bose QC15's ($150 refurb) that have given me excellent
service for the past 3 years, but lately I've discovered that earplugs work
just as well if you're not trying to listen to music.

Also when you're trying to sleep on a plane, Bose's active noise-cancellation
stops working when you lean your head hard against a headrest (such that the
earmuffs touch the headrest). I think it's just the nature of active noise-
cancellation. I've resorted to earplugs when trying to sleep while flying.

~~~
WalterSear
Noise canceling isn't perfect, so it leaves comb filter peaks of uncanceled
sound in the sound field.

~~~
wenc
It wasn't noise-cancelling not being perfect (it worked just fine), but noise
cancelling going bonkers when the earmuffs come into contact with another
solid object (in my case, neck cushion on seat). I think it broke the around-
ear seal a teeny bit and that threw the noise cancellation off.

~~~
WalterSear
Right. I'm saying even when used correctly, it wasn't protecting your hearing
from the noise of the flight. Notches of noise were poking through the filters
despite the impression of quietness, and causing fatigue damage to the cells
tuned to those frequencies.

------
woolvalley
Noise cancelling cannot cancel out voices. It's designed to cancel out
predictable lower frequency sounds such as fans, A/C system fans, engine
rumbles and jet engine noise.

The noise cancelling system has an inherent delay in processing the sound it's
listening to output an opposing waveform. Since voices are not predictable,
outputting a waveform after a slight delay will just cause it to be out of
sync and cancel out nothing. Maybe some ML system could do this in the future,
but it would have to be absolutely perfect to not sound distractingly strange
at times.

Fans on the other hand are predictable, so you can output an opposing waveform
despite the processing delay because you can predict how the waveform will act
after your processing delay and keep them in phase.

~~~
ju-st
What amount of delay is acceptable?

~~~
dta5003
In order to effectively cancel, it would have to be less than the time
difference between the sound being detected/processed by the headphones and
the sound being detected by your ears.

So, roughly the time it takes sound to travel at most an inch?

------
rb808
I've worn headphones in open plan offices and that combined with a bunch of
concerts and clubs has given me some good noise-induced hearing loss &
tinnitus.

My Audiologist suggested the headphones dont help the Tinnitus as they trigger
the Limbic system and heighten anxiety which could trigger Tinnitus. Anyone
heard this?

So advice to people - go easy on the headphones, even if the volume isn't high
- too many hours a week is bad. I'd avoid the white noise too - maybe just ear
plugs are best.

~~~
kup0
Headphones generally help my tinnitus as long as I have something (anything)
playing in them, even at extremely low volumes, but it's interesting there's a
chance it could (temporarily) make it worse! That said, yes concerts/clubs,
and poor choices when it comes to car audio, etc have all contributed to some
hearing loss and tinnitus for me. I think headphones have been the smallest
overall contributor. I typically don't listen to headphones turned up loud,
however.

I'm pretty sure as long as the volume is always kept to a reasonable level,
wearing headphones constantly shouldn't be an issue as far as any hearing
damage is concerned. Especially when it comes to NC headphones- I would think
this would often cause the wearer to not have to have the volume as high since
less needs "drowned out".

There are other issues with long-term wearing, though, at least for some. For
existing tinnitus I suppose it could be a problem- though even earplugs
aggravate that for me because the less sound I hear externally the more
perceptible my tinnitus gets (power outages are the worst because when a room
goes dead silent my tinnitus goes nuts). And of course there are issues of
comfort, migraines/headaches, etc

~~~
c0mputer1
I also depend on noise to mask my tinnitus. However, depending on the type of
noise, it doesn't take much. I've found certain genres of music (e.g. noise
rock) to require less volume than white/pink/brown noise to have the same
masking effect.

I use an earmuffs/earbuds combo for travel and certain office environments as
I find that grants me the most control over the noise my ears are exposed to.
That way, I can limit noise to useful/intentional noise, and keep the volume
as low as possible.

------
theptip
> I noticed that most of their “noise-cancelling” was actually passive and
> consisted of good noise suppression from the good seal created by the
> headphone ear cups.

This is absolutely not the case, you can turn the cancelling on and off while
still wearing them and it makes a huge difference to background noise. Many
years ago they had a demo where you stand in the store and they blast a low-
pitched white noise roar (like a jet engine) at you, and have you turn the
cancelling on and off -- it's something ridiculous like a 45db drop. I bought
a pair on the spot.

It's certainly the case that the cancelling is less effective at higher
frequencies like voices than it is at low-pitch background noise, which does
decrease their effectiveness in an office environment.

I have mixed opinions about build quality -- the originals were solid, I wore
these around town most days for a few years, and they are now about 6 years
old and still working. The replacement cups that I bought were garbage and
disintegrated within 6 months of only at-desk wearing. So perhaps construction
is not what it used to be.

Interestingly I heard that Bose patented the physically optimal geometry for
noise-cancelling microphones, which would mean that their competitors are
necessarily inferior at pure noise cancelling; don't know if that's true
though.

I also find it annoying that these headphones require batteries to function
even if you aren't using the noise cancelling feature; makes it very
unreliable for carrying around town, but not a problem at my office desk.
Without knowing anything about the electronics involved, it seems like it
would be much better to have it degrade to being non-noise-cancelling powered
headphones, instead of bricks, when the battery dies.

~~~
bvy
Pretty sure most of the current crop of ANC headphones can be wired in.

------
syntaxing
I own a pair of the Sony Wh1000mx2/B. It was pretty pricey (I think $250ish?)
when I bought about a year ago. They work flawlessly. I work in an open office
and I think it's one of the peripherals I use the most out of anything,
including my phone. No visible wear/damage or battery degradation so far. I
highly recommend them! According to reviews the newer generation (Sony
wh1000mx3)is even better than Bose's comfort and NC (significantly
apparently).

~~~
namirez
I second the Sony WH1000XM2 or XM3. I owned both of them. In terms of noise
cancelling I didn't notice much difference between them, except XM3 feels a
bit more comfortable. Compared to Bose QC35, however, they were significantly
superior. They were not even close.

~~~
syntaxing
Yeah, my ear area gets a bit sweaty if I wear it too long. How is the charging
for the XM3? It takes a "while" to go to 100% full for my XM2. I hear that the
XM3 blocks voice a bit better too?

~~~
namirez
XM3 has a usb-c connector with fast charging, so it's better than XM2. Going
to 100% takes a while though (maybe about 1 hour) but charging it for about 10
min is enough to get you going for the whole day. I charge mine about once a
week.

As for the noise cancelling, I haven't noticed much of a difference with XM2,
but I'm not an audiophile anyway, so I'm not sure.

------
kaffein
Personally not a fan of active noise cancellation as I dont like the feeling
of it, plus the Bose are expensive and I mostly want to mask speech. I settled
on noise isolation in the form of studio/dj headphones, that work well wearing
for long periods with glasses on. Got these Beyerdynamic
[https://www.amazon.com/beyerdynamic-770-PRO-Studio-
Headphone...](https://www.amazon.com/beyerdynamic-770-PRO-Studio-
Headphone/dp/B0016MNAAI/ref=mp_s_a_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1539102058&sr=8-15-spons&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=beyerdynamic+dt770+pro&psc=1)
though paid around $130 instead. The 80 ohm version still works well with my
phone without amp.

~~~
moftz
I have the 250 ohm impedance versions, they work really well for office-like
situations and I used them extensively in college for studying, sometimes not
even listening to anything.

However they really don't do a thing when on a plane or in a place with a lot
of low frequency noise as passive noise cancellation doesn't work well for
that. I ended up buying a cheap pair of active noise cancelling bluetooth
headphones for traveling (which are pretty terrible at blocking
voices/footsteps).

------
lukeholder
I use mack's ultra soft ear plugs (correctly inserted, which most people don't
do) and Bose QC35's with sound cancelling on playing non-lyrical electronic
music loud enough to only hear faintly.

You will not hear a 747 land in your back yard.

Edit: How to insert correctly:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF1CjCugD_M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF1CjCugD_M)

------
stcredzero
_Bose are great headphones for looking like you are an audiophile._

If you aren't an audiophile. Some audiophiles might well think, "Why are you
wearing those? You're not on an airplane!" I much prefer passive noise
isolation. Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 Ohm is my recommendation, especially if
you like bass. The 80 Ohm is much easier to drive, and you can even run them
off your laptop in a pinch. The earpads are pretty good stock. Not everyone's
head is compatible with big circles pressed up against them, however.

------
manishsharan
I have found that using sound isolation earbud foam tips from Comply, which I
can slip on my cheap earbuds from Sony /panasonic , along with my music helps
me not go postal when the guy across from me is taking a conference call on
this phone. Also I can't pull off that cool the-over-the-ear-phone-wearing-
hipster look.

~~~
drcongo
Comply foam tips are incredible. I bought a cheapo pair of in-ear wireless
earphones off wish.com and the sound quality was abysmal, I stuck some Comply
tips on and now they sound excellent. The tips cost more than the earphones.

------
Raphmedia
I have had good results by using this noise generator:
[https://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/cafeRestaurantNoiseGenerat...](https://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/cafeRestaurantNoiseGenerator.php)

This site lets you customize the sounds that are generated. I crank the left
ones (bass) up until it drowns the people that are talking around me.

The first minutes are a bit confusing because you are in the middle of a
stream of conversations that you are not able to understand. After a few
minutes you brain blocks everything, even the real conversation around you. It
even works with my regular earbuds.

Sometimes, I put some mall/elevator music (the main artist for those is called
Muzak) over it and I really feel like I'm working in a mall's Starbucks.

------
sbradford26
I have the Sony WH1000XM2s and they work very well for an office. They have
held up very well and give me noise cancellation, durability, and good sound
quality. Sony just released the WH1000XM3s which are probably worth a look if
you are in the market.

------
sevensor
Drummers have an interesting perspective on this problem:

[http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114491](http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114491)

The linked thread gets into some details that are irrelevant for programming,
unless you use a click track to time your keystrokes. However, a lot of the
same considerations apply, particularly the need for really strong
attenuation, and the same discussions are had regarding in-ear versus over-ear
monitors.

------
hamandcheese
I work in an open office. Turns out that if I’m in the zone, noise around me
isn’t a problem whatsoever, so long as someone doesn’t say my name.

I end up wearing my Bose much less often than not.

~~~
TeMPOraL
For me, the office noise isn't a problem when I'm in the zone. The noise is a
problem when I'm trying to _get into_ the zone.

------
jpalomaki
Article links to Ultraphones, - high isolation headphones.

”UltraPhones are SONY 7506 Studio Monitor headphone components mounted in a
comfortable 29 db passive isolation hearing protection muff.” [https://www.gk-
music.com/product/ultraphones/](https://www.gk-music.com/product/ultraphones/)

Any experience on these? I’ve been using the BeyerDynamics mentioned in the
thread, but I’m not fully satisfied with the isolation.

~~~
wilsonnb3
I’ve never used them but I would never recommend the Sony MDR7506 to anyone,
they sound awful to me.

~~~
jpitz
They're ( they, the MDR 7506 ) kind of a industry standard in professional
editing and mixing settings, not to mention as monitors. They sound pretty
good to a lot of people. I 'grew up' on them, perhaps I'm biased. I've got a
pair kicking around that are over 20 years old.

Absolutely, get the cans that sound good to you. Get whatever sounds good to
you, doesn't matter what they are. But, please, give a listen to as many
different cans as you are able to. Speakers and headphones are terribly,
terribly subjective.

------
twotwotwo
I got the big Leight headphones a while back and more recently QC35's.

My wife happened to get the older model MPOW adapter in the post; it broke
with the blue-flashing-light issue that appears in some user reviews--she
replaced it with a Yeti, which worked. Also, MPOW has newer models that might
not have the issue and at least one reviewer said MPOW replaced their blue-
flashing-light unit.

Seems accurate that the Leight things' passive isolation, combined with
playing most any sound through them, should make background speech indistinct
enough to be less distracting. Generally, like the post says, ANC is great at
quieting deep rumbles (cars, trains, etc.), and physical isolation is better
at blocking higher pitches (speech and higher noise). (Also ++ to the comment
saying it's a shame many folks have to make up for employers imposing open
offices, but only so much a single worker can do about that.)

What the Bose have going for them are 1) ANC seems like a legit win for train
or plane trips, 2) I wanted a BT _headset_ (including a mic for phone calls)
and the QC35s provide that, 3) the QC35's are decent, though not audiophile-
level, as headphones. And I'd heard lots of praise for them from
acquaintances, which made me hopeful there'd be no unpleasant surprises.

The QC35's are doing the job. I _don 't_ know if some cheaper/different
arrangement would _also_ have done the job. ANC seems great when you want it,
but for me that's not every day; maybe I could have gone w/something cheaper,
or two setups similar to the blog post, one for work/calls and the other for
the occasional noisy trip.

------
meatmanek
I swear by the the 3m X5A headphones[1] (which have 4.8, 8.1, and 12.4dB
better attenuation at 125Hz, 250Hz, and 500Hz than the Leight Sync headphones
in the article, according to their datasheet[2]), plus the Koss KSC75
headphones[3], with the clip removed and shoved inside, per [4].(I've since
added a little wedge of foam behind each of the headphones to better keep them
in place.)

The better attenuation at low frequencies makes these really good at blocking
human voices, which is the thing that I find most distracting in an open
office. With even a little bit of music, I can barely tell that people are
having a conversation 10 feet from me.

The headphone cables can sometimes break the seal, but I find shifting them
usually fixes it. Besides, the noise that sneaks in is high-frequency stuff
like key clicks, not distracting voices.

The downsides are: these are extremely large cans (2.5-3" deep), the KSC75s
have a pretty short cable, and if you drop your cans or yank the cable, the
headphones will tend to pop out.

1\.
[https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CPCHBCQ](https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CPCHBCQ)
2\. [https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/845196O/3m-peltor-x-
seri...](https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/845196O/3m-peltor-x-series-
passive-hearing-protection-earmuff-technical-data-sheet.pdf) 3\.
[https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006B486K](https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006B486K)
4\.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/5bwu48/homemade...](https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/5bwu48/homemade_noise_isolating_headphones_p/)

------
compumike
I recently tried a coworker's QC35s and was impressed. I decided to buy the
TaoTronics TT-BH22
[https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075CBHN9M/](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075CBHN9M/)
(about $60; don't get tricked by the "newer model of this item" link which is
quite different) -- and I think they're a fantastic value with maybe 75% of
the noise cancellation performance of the $300+ name-brand product. I use them
basically all day in our open office. The active noise cancellation cuts down
tremendously on low-frequency noise from air handlers and distant
conversations. Would recommend.

One downside is that when they're first turned on, I can faintly hear the
switching power supply charging up the internal capacitors for the first few
seconds. But I've been told that I have unusually good high-frequency hearing,
and this basically goes away once it's charged, and is certainly not audible
over music.

------
KaiserPro
I've done the same thing with the sync. the only difference is that I have hot
glued the bluetooth adaptor on the right side of the head band. I have a small
3.5mm cable that links the adaptor to the headphones.

Proper ear monitors are the holy grail, as they are comfortable (if you have
your ear cast/pour done properly) and should have >28 db of noise reduction.
Alas I don't have a proper cast anymore, its about £200 to get it done
properly.

The problem with noise cancelling headphones is they are great for white
noise/whirs/traffic, they are terrible at blocking voices.

However I don't have music playing in the office. I just use the ear defenders
as attenuators. Its only on the commute do I listen to stuff.

The sync only knocks off 25db, you can get ear plugs/defenders that reduce
noise by 34db. Some of the howard leight squidgy earplugs are super
comfortable, soft enough to sleep in.

------
krupan
I found moldable earplugs to be better than the foam ones. Something like
this:

[https://earplugsonline.com/](https://earplugsonline.com/)

Yo don't have to wait for them to expand like the foam ones. They also don't
press on your glasses like over-the-ear headphones or ear protectors.

------
rashkov
The author says he tried the bose qc20 (in-ear headphones), but then goes onto
describe the bose qc25 (over-ear headphones). I'd like to defend the honor of
the bose qc20, which has superior noise canceling to the qc25. While it's true
that it doesn't block out talking, it makes it sound like it's in a distant
room, and with a little bit of white noise or music it makes the open office
noise a non-issue for me. Furthermore, it's a godsend in a loud city and it's
incredible to hear the little details in your music and not having to crank
your volume past 50%.

That said, they're super pricey and they do fall apart, but I've got mine
patched up after three years and holding onto them until other products can
match this level of noise canceling.

~~~
hellcow
I bought 3 pairs of QC20s. Each of them fell apart in less than a year,
despite absurdly careful care. There's a design flaw where the wire connects
to the battery pack. Tape could only hold them together for so long.

After 3 failures I vowed to not buy another one, despite the exceptional sound
canceling. I switched to a cheapo $30 Samsung pair I bought at an airport,
beat it to hell and back, and it's in perfect shape years later.

~~~
rashkov
It's true, the build quality is bad and my coworker has the same exact issues
as mine (rubber coating came off the casing, volume up button stops clicking
but can still be mushed down to use). The battery pack casing started to open
up and would cause line noise, especially when charging.. I glued the case
back together and it seems to be better now. I think I could have used the
soft case more, instead of keeping them bare in my pockets, but it seems
inevitable that they'd fall apart anyway. I can't really recommend them
because of these issues, but the noise canceling is one of those magical life
upgrades for me.

------
endergen
These have higher DB cancellation: [https://www.amazon.com/3M-Earmuff-
Protectors-Hearing-Protect...](https://www.amazon.com/3M-Earmuff-Protectors-
Hearing-
Protection/dp/B00009LI4K/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1539112187&sr=8-8&keywords=construction+headphones&dpID=51fbuP-
CLzL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch)

I use them, but without audio. Just for pure silence, then use my Bose
headphones when I want to actually hear anything?

------
13415
I've tried brown noise a while ago and it certainly didn't work for me. Being
stressed out by a constant background noise is not the same as silence.

------
ndh2
> _NOTE 2: Depending on the shape of your head the head band of the earmuffs
> can make the crown of your head hurt – though this is not limited to
> earmuffs as may headphones have this undesirable feature._

I tied a piece of memory foam that I salvaged from an old mattress to the head
band, using two strips of velcro tape. Looks ridiculous, works really well.

------
marshray
Having gone through a couple pairs of the Bose QC35, I am currently happy with
the Sennheiser PXC 550. The noise cancellation is comparable and I feel like
the sound quality is just a tiny bit better.

But perhaps the best part is they protrude less than the Bose, making it
easier to listen while lying down.

------
kornork
Has anyone here successfully lobbied their management to get rid of the open
office plan?

A good game plan for that seems much more valuable than headphone
recommendations.

------
mygo
Aren't ear-plugs noise cancelling?

What if they just put tiny speakers inside ear-plugs and bypassed the whole
active noise cancelling component?

~~~
Erwin
That's pretty much the venerable Etymotic which also have the best isolation
as per that site: [https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/isolation/noise-
isol...](https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/isolation/noise-isolation-
cancellation-passive-active)

For me, they're not comfortable for more than 3 or so hours while I can have
either The QC30 or HD800S on all day.

------
dogma1138
A cheaper option is any type of over the ear hearing protection and in ear
headphones if you want to listen to music.

But neat none the less.

~~~
bunderbunder
That's pretty much exactly what option #2 from TFA is.

The author quotes a higher price, but that's only because the recommended pair
of headphones costs more than the entirety of the first option.

------
tomc1985
It's funny that people are trying to hard to advance tech in active noise
cancelling. The real secret is in the materials -- I don't know how but my
favorite passive headphones knock out ambient noise better than most of the
active cans (Bose or other) I've demoed at tech stores. Plus, they cost less
and reproduce music more accurately (which may or may not be to everyone's
liking)

------
JohnBooty
This guy has a lot of misconceptions.

    
    
        > Bose are great headphones for looking like you are 
        > an audiophile. As far as I can tell – from talking 
        > to friends who are recording music in studios – nobody 
        > uses them professionally.
    

Listening to music at home != listening for professional use.

Most common pro studio headphones are Sony MDR 7506's. They are pretty
enjoyable for home use too but (like all studio headphones) are a little thin
on the bass.

Leaving aside the "audiophile" term since it means different things to
different people.

Home headphones have bass that is typically either moderately boosted (as in
the Bose QC15/25/35) or ridiculously boosted (some Beats headphones,
especially the early models) That doesn't mean they're "bad" because his
"friends who are recording music in studios" don't use them. You just can't
realistically use them for creating professional audio.

    
    
        >  They do a pretty good job with steady constant droning 
        > noises (like the HVAC fans) but any higher frequency 
        > sound – like people talking – is left uncancelled.
    

Not true. High frequency sound isn't attenuated nearly as much as low
frequency sounds, but is pretty effectively blocked by the Bose if you have
any audio whatsoever playing, even at low volumes.

    
    
        > (i.e. they break apart within a few months of daily use)
    

Wow. I know lots and lots of people who own them and they typically last
years. What's this guy doing to his headphones?

    
    
        > you need to purchase expensive replacement parts for them. I’ve 
        > replaced the ear cups on them twice so far and for the last pair 
        > I’ve been very careful not to damage them. The problem is they 
        > come undone even if I barely use them and at $30 a pair they are 
        > expensive!!! 
    

Ear pads last a year or two of daily use. Never had them "come undone."

BTW when I say "daily use" I don't mean abusive daily use. If you're
transporting them you can't just throw them into a bag or they will wear
out/break sooner. Of course that's true for most headphones.

As far as expensive replacements, there are great $15 unofficial pads on eBay,
they are indistinguishable from the OEM pads to me.

    
    
        > I noticed that most of their “noise-cancelling” was actually 
        > passive and consisted of good noise suppression from the good 
        > seal created by the headphone ear cups.
    

This guy's really living on another planet. There's a very significant
difference when you flip the switch from passive to active.

    
    
        > Music after a while gets tiring – especially when I’m in my 
        > 8th hour of listening through emotionally taxing soundtracks 
        > like Two Steps from Hell
    

"I listened to emotionally taxing music for eight hours straight and I found
it emotionally taxing" Cool insight!

    
    
        > I got myself a pair of [actual passive noise canceling headphones 
        > like you'd find at a hardware store]
    

In all seriousness, if serious noise cancellation is what you need, yeah --
it's true. A cheap pair of passive noise cancellers from a hardware store will
block more sound than a Bose. It's what I wear when using my table saw or
other power tools. They are much, much larger than the Bose though. If you're
cool with that, then you're set.

Lest anybody wonder if I'm some kind of secret Bose operative, I will also say
that Sony's latest noise canceling headphones have really closed the gap in my
opinion. Of course, maybe I could be some kind of secret double triple agent
working for multiple Big Headphone entities.

------
jordache
such an annoying title. Bose is not synonymous with noise cancelation. Noise
cancelation is a technology independent of a brand

