
Spy access to NZ used as bargaining tool - Andome
http://nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10910701
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malandrew

        [former CIA director and National Security Agency director 
        General Michael Hayden] was quoted as saying: "Because of 
        the nature of global telecommunications, we are playing 
        with a tremendous home-field advantage, and we need to
        exploit that edge.
    

I really hope the rest of the World understands the implications here and
works to eliminate the home field advantage for the US and makes sure that no
other country ever gets this advantage. No single country should ever have
that power.

------
javajosh
Gods, could the NSA get any more short-sighted? Once they started tapping into
all of this data, how long did they think they could keep it secret,
especially when tens of thousands of contractors knew about the program? Once
the news leaked, what did they think other countries were going to do?

Whenever people in power setup perfect systems of abuse, the people being
abused will change that system by going out-of-band.

~~~
mtgx
This is the problem with having so much unchecked power. It's extremely
tempting to abuse it and take full advantage of the benefits it gives you, and
not think of the consequences _years_ down the road, because you know you have
the whole government backing you (even if it's unconstitutional) - at least at
the time.

~~~
dhimes
It's not even abuse in the sense that it will be done with evil intent.. It
is, in fact, a _natural consequence_ that even good people will do 'bad
things' when put in the position.

Imagine the following: You, mtgx, are put in charge of protecting the mid-
Atlantic states from an attack. You have been given complete access to all of
the legally obtained intelligence that the nation has about the region and
potential conspirators for said attack.

Do you _not_ use it? What are your options? If you don't use it, and the
attacks are successful, it will be your fault. You will have to live with the
knowledge that your inaction, for whatever higher purpose, cost those lives.

I posit that even good people like you would take all of the steps you have
available to do your job. Even if by day you are writing letters to the
editors begging the nation to take those powers away from you.

For a reak example, look no farther than what happened in the case of the
Boston Marathon bomber Tamerlan Tsarnaev. It turns out that we had a lot of
intelligence on him; the Russians even alerted us that he was trouble. And
yet, we did not feel we had enough evidence to invade his privacy. We didn't
stop him (this is why I think that the people doing this are basically trying
to do the right thing). And when we found out after the bombing that this
could have been stopped? The shit hit the fan: People were declaring the
FBI/CIA incompetent, etc.

The main reason to act on this privacy issue is to help the good people who
have to do these jobs, not to stop evil people. The rules are now such that
good people have to do evil things in order to be good.

We want to keep this in mind so that we solve the right problem.

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amirmc
_" It seems that we now have the choice between taking the time to understand
and implement secure encryption or choosing services based on which
governments we don't mind spying on us."_

I prefer the first of those two options but it'll only have an impact if more
people make the same choice.

------
rdl
Is this why they killed Pacific Fibre?

~~~
mappu
I think the official line is that having investment from both China and the US
was considered a dealbreaker by the US side, and since the US wouldn't fund it
completely, the deal couldn't go through. Guess this explains why.

I'm a resident but not anyone important, so clarifications welcome

~~~
lancewiggs
China investment meant a preference for Chinese equipment/vendors, which in
turn would mean getting a landing in the USA would be very hard, essentially
impossible.

The primary contract was signed with a US vendor, TE Subcom (actually HQ is in
Switzerland for tax reasons), and whether the Chinese vendor could even do the
job aside even from landing rights was a big question.

Funding from any source never amounted to enough to get it away. Which is a
shame as the business case was - and still is - compelling.

Source: me - a Pacific Fibre founder

~~~
rdl
I still don't understand what legal justification the US has for making it
hard to get landing rights in the USA just because you use Chinese equipment.

If I ever have a spare $300mm or so, I know what I'm funding.

~~~
lostlogin
If there weren't any existing, it could make some. There are some very
protectionist policies in the US and if you have the lobbying power you can
get even more. That said, how many local industries aren't protected by their
country's government? Some protection is good, but finding the balance can be
a little tricky.

------
e3pi
So McCain says today US needs to start poking digits(pun?) into Putin's eye,
and this NZ fragment leads me to wonder what fist or carrot incentive makes
every(?) country in the world pipe their domestic surveillance back to US?
Now, how then, do you apply all the world's intel to acquire whatever you
want? What new US intel agency with an eagle logo orchestrates the `parallel
construction' to `git 'er done'?

------
toble
The way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if they bundled it in as a
secret requirement for international trade deals.

------
aunty_helen
This wouldn't happen under a Labour led government... 2006 oh shi..

~~~
lostlogin
Clarke wasn't perfect, but Key's willingness to stoop to any level for the
rich or powerful is shameless. Pandering to the US (Afghanistan, Dotcom), Sky
city deal, Power company sell off and directors massive pay bumps, Kiwi rail
shares owned by the PM whist the future of Kiwi rail hangs in the balance,
bailing out Rio Tinto last week. How many dozen have I missed?

[http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1305/S00195/skycity-hits-
ja...](http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1305/S00195/skycity-hits-jackpot-with-
keys-dodgy-deal.htm)
[http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&obj...](http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10875466)

[http://www.3news.co.nz/Key-lied-about-ownership-of-Tranz-
Rai...](http://www.3news.co.nz/Key-lied-about-ownership-of-Tranz-Rail-shares-
Labour/tabid/419/articleID/72617/Default.aspx)

[http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&obj...](http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10910225)

~~~
aunty_helen
Anti-sea protest laws at the request of Royal Dutch Shell, 3 strikes law
prototyped for the US and the attempted inclusion of software patents at the
request of IBM and MS to name but a few. And most obviously the GCSB law
change.

