

Ask HN: Starting iPhone developer salary for new grad? - dave1619

We're a small iPhone/iPad development company and we're considering hiring someone just out of college as a iPhone developer.  We already have a couple senior iPhone developers on our team, so this new hire would be focused on a few of our existing apps to improve them while our more experienced developers work on new ones.  We're looking to hire someone right out of college to save costs and also so we can have a part in the growth/development of the new hire.<p>I'm wondering what would be the salary range we should expect to pay for a programmer right out of college?<p>a. 25k-35k/year
b. 35k-45k/year
c. 45k-55k/year
d. 55k+/year
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tptacek
I'm not that closely in touch with iPhone dev rates, but I pay a bit of
attention because I like to track them relative to software security bill
rates. My sense of it is that commodity iPhone dev bill rates are between
$100-$150/hr. Call it $125.

Multiply by 2 to get a fully utilized rate, subtract 30% for overhead,
multiply by 60% real utilization, and that's what an FT senior dev might get.

A scale running from $25,000 all the way to $105,000 seems a little
unrealistic.

Ultimately, there's no real "default starting salary". You need to fill in the
blanks for:

* What your bill rate is (how much is the role worth to you)

* What your utilization is (ditto)

* How skilled the applicant is (knows C? knows ObjC? knows appkit?)

* How much the candidate is going to cost to train year 1 (in billable hours of senior talent spent actually training, and in reduced utilization for the candidate)

You figure out your negotiating ceiling, and from there work out what you're
"comfortable" paying, and then you negotiate.

If you're running a competant, reasonably successful shop, my gut is that you
come out somewhere around 60-65k for a junior that you think develops into a
solid producer within a year. Someone who won't develop into a producer in a
year, you don't hire. Someone who already is a solid producer, you can't
apparently afford to hire. (That's not a barb).

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fizx
The answer is highly dependent on your location.

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chrisa
Many colleges publish average salary data; just google: "[University near you]
career services salary", and you can get an idea about what an average college
grad from your area will make. For example, here is Indiana University's:
[http://www.informatics.indiana.edu/careers/hiring_statistics...](http://www.informatics.indiana.edu/careers/hiring_statistics.asp)

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gte910h
Totally depends where you are:

Atlanta/Austin 55k ny/Boston 75k San Fran 80k Bumblesticks 40-45k

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drewcrawford
I'm an undergrad student, and I make close to 8k a month freelancing when I'm
working full time (like right now).

Don't settle for entry level if you're good and can reliably delver great
code. You'd have to pay me competitively with my freelancing gig to even think
about hiring me.

Other grads aren't as self motivated tho and don't know what's out there. Good
luck snagging one!

~~~
tptacek
While I definitely sympathize with you more than the original poster, I note
that the idea that salaries should be competitive with bill rates is kind of a
pernicious trap. In exchange for a steep discount on your freelance rate, a
salary gives you, in rough order of value:

* The employer's half of FICA

* A paycheck when you're not utilized

* Access to group health and some contribution towards your monthly payment

* Someone else to hunt down and close gigs for you

* Vacation and sick days

Take your freelance rate, knock off 30% for health and taxes (your "fully
loaded" rate, which might include office space), and then another 40% for
unutilized time, and you're ballparking what a salary looks like before you
factor in the amount of effort you put into marketing, sales, and contracts.

~~~
drewcrawford
The figure I gave was net. After paying my Internet bill, after buying my WWDC
ticket and a couple of ipads, a development machine or so a year, and finding
all my gigs.

Plus factor in that OP wants someone to maintain existing apps (far from bad,
but not terribly exciting work) and you have what would be (for me) a really
crappy deal.

There are certainly people out there for whom this would be a good fit. I'm
simply not one of them, and I suspect there are quite a few people out there
my age who make more than I do between the app store and consulting.

With normal programming, you can sort of snag developers right out of school
before they know what's competitive pay. All qualified iPhone devs already
have a paying gig with apple, and many consult for decent pay.

~~~
tptacek
(a) I'm not trying to sell you anything. I don't know the original poster.

(b) All I'm saying is that an FT salary and an FT freelance rate shouldn't be
within throwing distance of each other.

(c) By my math, _you_ indeed should actually be getting something like $8k *
12, because if you're well utilized and paying part-timer-bracket taxes,
you're probably undercharging.

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S_A_P
I would say B and a half 45-50k

~~~
tptacek
I would say anyone who can reliably deliver ObjC code within a few weeks
rampup would be a sucker to accept 50k, though I don't doubt you can find
suckers.

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cgherb911
For iphone development, b

