
Next Generation KDE Plasma Notifications - ognarb
https://blog.broulik.de/2019/05/next-generation-plasma-notifications/
======
andrewrothman
Not sure why there's so much negativity in this thread. Thanks for spending
the time to improve this. I love that KDE can show notifications from my phone
via KDE Connect. It's not without its problems (the design could improve, and
I'd love support for android quick respond actions if they're possible) but
overall seems like great work.

~~~
jeroenhd
I've been using KDE Connect on my phone with GSConnect in Gnome and I can
safely say that KDE connect is what made me boot Linux more than Windows. I've
been dual booting for ages but the ability to copy text and send files across
the network with a standardised interface made my life a load easier.

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sk0g
Does it solve the infinite appending issue though?

Basically, every Slack message would append to the same notification, so after
4-5 notifications, I'd just see old ones and a ... line, making the
notifications useless. This also went for the update centre, etc.

Also when notifications decide to just stay on screen indefinitely because
of... Reasons.

~~~
shrimp_emoji
>infinite appending issue though?

I've never experienced this. Particularly, I don't experience this with
Discord, and Discord is to Slack what a bee is to an ant, which is why I
juxtapose it. (And I would ask if it might be something on the Slack side, but
you say it happens with everything.)

>Also when notifications decide to just stay on screen indefinitely

Never had this either.

Might have been bugs. If you're on Ubuntu or another point release distro,
those kinds of bugs also stick around, IME, because your DE version stays
stagnant and the bugs are only fixed in subsequent versions.

~~~
inetknght
On the other hand, I've had it with Slack, Discord, Skype, and most anything
that uses the OS notification system; using Ubuntu 14.04 and 16.04. So while
it's not KDE, it's certainly something relatable.

~~~
sk0g
You might be on to something, I had it with Kubuntu, but not, as far as I can
remember, with Manjaro or KDE SUSE.

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funkiee
Is lack of horizontal padding part of the KDE aesthetic?

~~~
inetknght
Lack of horizontal padding? What padding do you want? There's clear whitespace
between everything.

I for one definitely like and _want_ more compact information. I definitely do
_not_ like the trend for making information more sparse. Leave that for your
blog; business runs on information.

~~~
notatoad
The most egregious example that stood out to me here is the x-padding between
the edge of the notification panel and any text inside the panel is less than
the padding between the notification title and the text below it.

The problem isn't that they need more padding, it's that their padding makes
no sense. If they made a design decision to have tight padding that would be
one thing, but they've got a horizontal layout with tight padding in the
horizontal direction and wide padding in the vertical.

here's a really quick-and-dirty edit to even out the padding around each text
block to be equal to the line height, which actually tightens up the total
density by correcting the too-high line height in the notification text:
[https://imgur.com/uVcY6Sw](https://imgur.com/uVcY6Sw)

~~~
inetknght
That is still a _context-sensitive opinion_.

Programmatically, that assumes that that information is available (query a
font rasterizer: where is the first pixel? consider also kerning and foreign
languages; also query icon: where is the first non-background pixel? consider
also theme information where _window background_ might not show the icon
well!).

Programmatically, you've un-aligned everything: now the amount of whitespace
at the top of the notification is different than the amount of whitespace on
the left of the notification.

Sure _you_ might say it looks better. But how much time do you think it would
require to make it look "pretty" (for _you_ )? As-is, it's _functional_ and
isn't _ugly_. If you want to improve it, then go contribute to the libraries
and applications being used.

~~~
wlesieutre
_> As-is, it's functional and isn't ugly_

As you’re keen to point out regarding everyone else’s comments, that’s your
opinion.

Personally I think it’s _functional and ugly_. They could skip the drop
shadow, the subtle transparency, the big icon on the right, the rounded
corners, and just draw a white box. As long as they fixed the left padding it
would look better than this.

Lots of attention to detail on the wrong things before they have the basics,
IMO.

EDIT: Here's one for all you folks that aren't bothered by iffy typography
[https://i.imgur.com/4tBNA0w.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/4tBNA0w.jpg)

~~~
ru999gol
> Lots of attention to detail on the wrong things before they have the basics,
> IMO.

thanks you pretty much perfectly summarized KDE

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ru999gol
every few weeks KDE forgets all my panels because of connecting/disconnecting
external displays and KDE having horrible multi display support. KDE is so
full of bugs like that its really frustrating, like the task manager
forgetting which screen they are on or shift getting stuck when connecting an
external keyword, etc. etc. But I've made my peace with all the bugs being a
fact of life, using it for 8+ years.

~~~
nisa
You are not alone. I really like KDE and enjoy using it mostly but it's full
of bugs but every other day I'll attempt to use GNOME and I'm back in no time.

I'll share the display issues - something deep inside calls random() on
monitor resolution and position - I'm sure!

I've switched to Arc Dark and Numix Circle Icons and it's not ugly anymore. I
don't know why they still ship Breeze with that broken padding by default.

But it's really getting better every release.

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treve
Gnome and KDE seem so close in polish these days, it's hard to decide which
one to run and I keep on going back and forward.

~~~
brimstedt
personally I find gnome's filesselector unusable, whereas kde's is great.

~~~
TheCraiggers
Last I tried, you couldn't type direct paths into the fileselector or the file
browser, basically requiring that you mouse your way around. I found that
extremely aggravating and went back to KDE almost immediately.

~~~
hadrien01
Ctrl+L has always worked for me, it highlights the path field.

~~~
inetknght
Having a key sequence is fine. Remembering the key sequence is annoying. Every
OS and UI wants to have it different. Modern OSes even get rid of hints and
text so people don't even know that a key sequence is available.

~~~
ghostly_s
This shortcut has been the same on MacOS, Windows, and most Linux DEs for
ages. Can't please everyone, I guess.

~~~
the_pwner224
This is true, but having just a keyboard shortcut is still a disaster for
discoverability. I've used Windows a fair bit and have spent a decade using
various Linux DEs; it was only two weeks ago that I discovered Ctrl+L.

It's a wonderful shortcut, useful in browsers and a huge number of other
applications, but having buttons and menus and other UI features - which may
take up a tiny bit of space and piss off designers who want ultra simple UIs -
are what allow people to become good at using software naturally, without
having to actively seek out knowledge from the few enlightened ones.

~~~
eitland
> I've used Windows a fair bit and have spent a decade using various Linux
> DEs; it was only two weeks ago that I discovered Ctrl+L.

It wasn't available in Explorer until recently.

More specifically: sometimes I have to work with Windows 2008 servers and it
is not available there.

I think in older Windows Explorers you could use an F-key or something but I
don't work that much with Windows anymore.

> but having buttons and menus and other UI features - which may take up a
> tiny bit of space and piss off designers who want ultra simple UIs - are
> what allow people to become good at using software naturally, without having
> to actively seek out knowledge from the few enlightened ones.

I tvink we agree. I have had a feeling for a while that a lot of the
simplification of UX we have done in the last 10 years is more dumbification,
and that by removing the learning curve we've also removed the learning.

Do I mean software should be hard to use? No. Use as clear ux as possible but
if you are designing power user apps for existing power users (or people that
should become power users) don't be afraid to add some configurability.

If I should try to come up with one rule of thumb: if a ux designer is
removing options the users want they _might_ be dumbing down the UX instead of
simplifying it.

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sergiomattei
I can't be the only one that dislikes KDE's typography.

I see that notification pane and aside from color, nothing gives it
typographical hierarchy. It just looks odd to me.

~~~
tylerjwilk00
_This_ has always been the problem with KDE and the reason I can not switch.

KDE UI never gets Typography, spacing/padding, or alignment correct.

It's a shame because they are so close on most other criteria.

~~~
solarkraft
I agree. That said I switched to KDE a few weeks ago and turned into a fan boy
during the configuration process. I'm very happy with my current configuration
(probably a mix of it actually being good and the Ikea effect). I love that
you can just configure almost anything almost exactly to your liking with not
all that much effort.

I'm not a huge fan of the default configuration, but the ability to completely
change it (with the many panel options) is just amazing (kind of contrary to
GNOME).

I think I have figured out at least part of the reason for the spacings always
feeling just a bit (or very) off (although I think it's bearable with my
theme):

Their Kirigami design support library has a set of pre defined spacings and
sizes developers are advised to rigidly stick to. These probably break down in
many contexts and might not even be chosen well in the first place.

Another reason might be that KDE doesn't have a design group that is as strong
as Gnome's and KDE might not be organized top-down as much (which is probably
related to financing).

I think you can fix or mitigate well a lot of the mistakes (Qt is great) by
using a good Qt curve theme.

~~~
noahadavis
You're correct that KDE's design group isn't organized from the top down.
While that might be a problem for a company, I think it's actually a good
thing for a community of volunteers because communities need to grow. Everyone
has their own lives outside of the work they do for KDE, so it's important
that the work load is spread across many people. Anyone can start start
designing for KDE, you just need to talk to other KDE designers and submit
patches.

I am a fairly new KDE designer who started contributing icons in the spring of
2018 because it was easy and fun.

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Insanity
Looks good! Kudos to the developers who put time in this!

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lonk
Over-engineered notifications

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alexandernst
Why KDE keeps rewriting every single component every few years? Is that
because of improper design/planification or because of bad implementation?

~~~
themodelplumber
> The old notification plasmoid was originally written in 2011

Where "few years" means 8 years? :D By all means rewrite software when it is 8
years old. A lot has changed in that time and the author notes that user
expectations have changed, which leads me to the...

...false dichotomy you offered. User expectations and the code base not
supporting those is the stated reason.

