
Scientists Are Racing to Build a Better Diet Soda - julio_iglesias
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-19/coke-pepsi-seek-diet-soda-s-perfect-sweetener
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kmicklas
Is there any reason not to just use artificial sweeteners besides unfounded
fears in the public? And would all this research money not be better spent on
advertising and attempts to influence public perception?

~~~
fnordfnordfnord
>Is there any reason not to just use artificial sweeteners besides unfounded
fears in the public?

artificial sweeteners stimulate appetite and promote weight gain
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892765/pdf/yjbm...](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892765/pdf/yjbm_83_2_101.pdf)

Aspartame and depression:
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8373935](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8373935)

SURVEY OF ASPARTAME STUDIES: CORRELATION OF OUTCOME AND FUNDING SOURCES
[http://www.dorway.com/peerrev.html](http://www.dorway.com/peerrev.html)

>And would all this research money not be better spent on advertising and
attempts to influence public perception?

I guess if you're selling artificial sweeteners...

~~~
dbbolton
>artificial sweeteners stimulate appetite and promote weight gain

Just like all studies seeking to link artificial sweeteners to weight gain,
it's a correlational argument that is not specific to artificial sweeteners.
The "neurobiology of food reward" is the exact same for sugar and artificial
sweeteners unless you happen to be purposefully depriving yourself of
calories, in which case the sweetener cannot be blamed.

The heart of the problem is psychosocial, not biochemical. Overweight people
are more likely to choose reduced calorie foods than people who are not
overweight.

There is also such a thing as cognitive bias. People who are overweight and/or
trying to lose weight will often end up using their exercise and calorie
reductions as "credits" toward food choices (e.g., 'Since I'm having a Diet
Soda, it's OK if I get the Extra Large fries because the calories cancel out')
and don't actually end up burning more calories than they take in.

If you could demonstrate in controlled conditions that (ideally more than
13[1]) people who eat and exercise in moderation suddenly start gaining weight
when artificial sweeteners are added to their diet (or losing weight when they
are removed), it might be an interesting finding.

>Aspartame and depression

[1] - "Despite the small n" ... possibly the understatement of the century.

>SURVEY OF ASPARTAME STUDIES

If anyone has actual evidence of failure to disclose a conflict of interest in
a published study, then it should be reported to the relevant institutions,
not used as a platform to denounce all research on a topic.

~~~
fnordfnordfnord
>If you could demonstrate in controlled conditions that (ideally more than
13[1]) people who eat and exercise in moderation suddenly start gaining weight
when artificial sweeteners are added to their diet (or losing weight when they
are removed), it might be an interesting finding.

I'm not into psych/medical research, but even in the hard sciences it is often
difficult to have enough data to point to a conclusion so unambiguously as to
be obvious

>If anyone has actual evidence of failure to disclose a conflict of interest
in a published study, then it should be reported to the relevant institutions,
not used as a platform to denounce all research on a topic.

That sounds wonderful but in the real world moneyed interests have and use
their means to promote their worldview. Medicine, food, and diet-related
markets are lousy with overly ambitious marketers and outright frauds. I did
not "denounce all research on a topic" I was responding to another poster who
appeared to want to dismiss anyone's concerns about the potential health risks
of artificial sweeteners.

~~~
dbbolton
>difficult to have enough data to point to a conclusion so unambiguously as to
be obvious

You are right, but that also cuts both ways, which is why we rely on
consensus. And the consensus of the international scientific community (not
just the FDA or any such organization by itself) is that artificial sweeteners
are safe.

You are also right that CoI is not always a black-and-white issue, but that
doesn't mean suspicions should be withheld from regulatory bodies and the
publishing journal(s). Writing an OpEd on a personal webpage is not the most
effective means to expose CoI, and, more importantly, such articles do not
immediately overrule all consensus.

If you _really_ believe that the majority of studies involving the safety of
artificial sweeteners are wrong, the best course of action is to demonstrate
it empirically by duplicating the experiments and coming up with different
data.

Put together a reasonable paper, and other researchers will take note of it--
even if you believe the conspiracy theory that all major journals are puppets
of the food industry. Ultimately, the data will trump the politics.

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iLoch
This is probably a crazy idea: drink less soda.

When it comes to pop, I usually stick to cola - and when it's cola I'll never
buy it unless it is made with real cane sugar. Boom, potential side effects of
artificial sweeteners are gone, and the drink tastes way better. And just
drink more water. Why is this so hard for people?

~~~
_JamesA_
"When it comes to pop, I usually stick to cola..."

As someone not from the Northeastern USA what does that even mean?

Pop, cola, soda and more regularly "coke" (the word not the brand) are all
used to refer to soft drinks in general.

~~~
skywhopper
In this case, "cola" indicates a particular flavor[1] of soft drink (Coca-Cola
and Pepsi being the most popular).

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kola_nut](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kola_nut)

~~~
dbbolton
The kola nut is actually no longer a dominant flavor in modern colas:

>Despite the name, the primary modern flavoring ingredients in a cola drink
are sugar, citrus oils (from oranges, limes, or lemon fruit peel), cinnamon,
vanilla, and an acidic flavorant.[2][3]

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cola#Flavorings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cola#Flavorings)

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pasbesoin
TL;DR: You don't have to use it in the manner in which it is packaged.

Another trick: Cut your soda with water.

I think it's still preferable to avoid soda, but if you like the taste and/or
want a bit of a boost, try mixing it 50/50 with water. Or less.

I like Coke Classic this way.

Or, particularly on a hot day, pour over a glass full of ice. Slowly sip away
as the ice continues to melt.

I still think this is a slippery slope towards greater consumption, including
refilling the glass. But, I can enjoy a bit of cola flavor without taking as
much of the sugar hit that is increasingly taxing as I continue to age.

I also agree as to cane sugar if you can as well as no artificial sweeteners.

~~~
jfroma
My father told me that my grand parent used to cut Coke with carbonated water
when it first appeared in Argentina because of two reasons 1- it was very
sweet and the people wasn't used to that. 2- because it was very expensive.

He said that the 750ml bottle was enough for the 4 member family, one glass
per person. When the 1L bottle came out, it was a problem they didn't know how
to hand out the remaining, so they decide to have another child, my uncle.

~~~
jfroma
BTW my grand parent is 87 today and is very healthy.

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skywhopper
For me, I see no real value in the 33%-less-sugar Stevia-sweetened drinks like
Coca-Cola Life. To me, they taste distinctly unlike the full-calorie versions,
but with 2/3 the sugar, they are still something I'd prefer to avoid. Maybe
it's positioned for people who hate diet soda and have just enough willpower
to avoid full-calorie soda, and need a little excuse to push them over to a
drink that tastes somewhat better than diet soda and somewhat worse than
regular. I wonder how many of those people there are.

~~~
poulsbohemian
Thank you! I tried Coca-Cola Life last week on a whim and was disappointed in
both the flavor and that it was still loaded with sugar (and thus calories).
There is no taste to it other than _sweet_ \- none of the citrus, caramel, or
other types of flavors you expect in a cola.

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VLM
Could try not making it sickly sweet. Might even boost sales.

~~~
joshuapants
The reason Diet Coke is so sweet is that it is an entirely different formula
from Coca Cola Classic. It is more similar to the ill-fated New Coke, a
product that was designed to be much sweeter because market research and focus
groups determined that people tended to prefer sweeter colas (New Coke, of
course, failed because it alienated Coke's market base, since people who
preferred sweeter sodas would have already started drinking Pepsi and New Coke
gave those individuals no reason to switch brand fealty.)

~~~
itsybitsycoder
Diet Coke is sweeter? To me it tastes like overly-carbonated ashtray. One of
the few diet drinks I don't like, because I find it not sweet enough. ;) I
knew that Diet Coke was its own formula and Coke Zero was meant to taste like
Coke, but to me Coke Zero/Coke taste sweeter than Diet Coke.

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scott_karana
Why don't they just use xylitol/isomalt or any of the other natural, calorie-
free, nice tasting sugars?

Presumably because they're expensive, but if sold in bulk I'm sure they could
bring prices down acceptably...

~~~
dbbolton
High consumption of sugar alcohols causes GI upset in a lot of people, which
is why you usually only see them used in small quantities (gum, mints, or non-
edibles like toothpaste and mouthwash).

Russel-Stover makes sugar-free chocolates, peanut butter cups, and other
confections that rely on sugar alcohols and sucralose to replace the missing
sugar. They carry a warning on the bag that eating more than 3 pieces may
cause diarrhea.

~~~
itsybitsycoder
Yup, I have a huge sweet tooth but I try to stick to a keto diet because it
has helped me keep my weight down without having to be hungry. I have
personally experienced the intense regret of eating an entire package of
maltitol chocolates/gummy bears on multiple occasions. It's a good way to
train yourself not to each so much freaking candy in one sitting.

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fnordfnordfnord
Sweetener shenanigans that have gone on at the FDA: The Miracle Berry
Conspiracy [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/homaro-cantu/the-miracle-
berry...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/homaro-cantu/the-miracle-berry-
conspir_b_3020765.html)

[http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-11-25/news...](http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-11-25/news/30440982_1_berries-
sugar-industry-sugar-free)

We might already have a better sweetener if it weren't for stuff like this.

~~~
tptacek
Have you ever tried miracle berries? I have, in a demo they did for us at
Cantu's restaurant. It's not a sweetener. It alters your sense of taste, for a
fairly long period of time; it changes how _everything_ tastes. It's really
cool, and you should (if you haven't already) order some and play with them
yourself. It's hard to see how they'd displace aspartame, though.

~~~
Tomte
I've always wanted to try those, but at first I couldn't decide to order in
some online shop, and next time I looked the shop had closed.

I think they wrote something about not being allowed to sell miracle berries
in the EU, because it was categorized as some dietary supplement or so,
without the necessary certifications.

~~~
tptacek
The best way to think about them is that they "filter out" sourness, which you
perceptually register as increased sweetness. It doesn't do much of anything
to bitterness. Lemons and fresh tomatoes are two things that taste very
different on miracle berries.

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therealdrag0
I wonder why there's such an obsession with ZERO calories. Why not a middle
ground? Maybe you could achieve a better flavor and attract health conscious
people with like 50 calories.

~~~
dagw
Isn't that what Coke is trying with Coke Life?

~~~
therealdrag0
Yep, you're right. I didn't get that far in the article.

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sp332
Aspartame gives me headaches, but I like the taste of sucralose and ace-K
(acesulfame potassium) together. They help to cover each others' funny
aftertaste. But Pepsi One is discontinued, and I can't find any other colas
like that.

~~~
dhimes
oh man pepsi one is discontinued? Crap! That was my go-to diet cola.

~~~
sp332
Yeah, middle of last year.

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rasz_pl
its called water

