

IPv4 is almost gone (in Europe anyway) - mstevens
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ncc-announce/2012-September/000615.html

======
andyking
This seems to have been rumbling on for some time now - at least for the past
five years or so.

My OS supports IPv6, my home router supports IPv6, but at no point have any of
the home ISPs I've used (three in the past five years - BT Internet, Be and
Origin Broadband) made any mention of any sort of IPv6 support.

I'm not au fait with the workings of such huge operations, so is there any
reason for ISP adoption of IPv6 to be so sluggish? It's not like it's been an
overnight thing. I'm aware it's unlikely to be a simple case of flipping a
switch, or installing a new software package - but we do appear to be
approaching an IP crunch.

Are there any consumer ISPs that do offer customers a block of IPv6 addresses
for use, rather than (or as well as) a single IPv4 address?

~~~
michaelt
According to [1] there are a few - no big names, though. As [2] says, running
IPv6 is fairly boring; you get access to the same web as everyone else.

[1]
[http://www.sixxs.net/faq/connectivity/?faq=native&countr...](http://www.sixxs.net/faq/connectivity/?faq=native&country=gb)
[2] <http://bens.me.uk/2011/adventures-in-ipv6>

~~~
X-Istence
I'm running on IPv6 on Comcast in the US, and yes while I get access to the
same web, I have noticed that I was having issues with IPv4 that I don't have
on IPv6. Such as limits per IP/account tuple logged into certain servers.

So my iPad, iPhone, and MacBook Pro being logged into the same Google account
over IMAP would sometimes cause issues because of too many connections for
that specific account, now with IPv6 that isn't an issue because all of my
devices now have their own unique IPv6 address. Perfect.

------
ginko
I'm afraid of the possibility that instead of adopting IPv6, internet
providers will just switch to ISP-wide NAT, making the internet even more
asymmetric than it already is.

~~~
kiallmacinnes
I sincerely hope not! ISP wide NAT is bound to cause countless issues for
internet services and businesses.

The first and mose obvious examples I can think of:

* Internet services (eg websites, netfix etc) can no longer blacklist IP addresses without blocking entire ISPs.

* Businesses can no longer offer "direct to the office" VPNs for remote workers.. Actually - even site-2-site VPN's will break if both sides are behind an ISP wide NAT.

~~~
bad_user
Look on the bright side: users will have more privacy.

~~~
ay
<http://panopticlick.eff.org/>

Works over NATs and proxies. And obviously the techniques from there are
already used by those who want to sell your info for profit. So, please, let's
put this meme to rest :-)

Blacklisting can and will happen based on other things, just that it is more
costly and less performant. So the consumers will pay for that in hidden costs
- less of the "useful" services delivered, etc.

The VPN part is sort-of correct - it will depend on the type of the NAT. With
most of the NATs, establishing the direct connection over a pair of them is
technically possible - take a look at STUN, TURN and ICE (IETF standards).

------
kiallmacinnes
For those of you curious about IPv6, and wanting to experiment with it at home
or in the office, have a look at SixXS[1] and Hurricane Electric IPv6[2].

They both offer free IPv6 "tunnels" which can be used to provide IPv6 to your
home/office.

We use SixXS in the office, and the tunnel has been alive without issue for 83
weeks and counting..

(P.S. SixXS is probably the easier choice if you have a dynamic IP, or are not
setting the tunnel up from your router directly..)

[1]: <http://www.sixxs.net/> [2]: <http://ipv6.he.net/>

~~~
baq
worth noting that HE has tunnel endpoints all over the world. i'm using one
right now in europe and it works really well.

------
_suoiruc
I know these folks are well-meaning but I find these constant "warnings" to be
insulting. What people really need to be aware of is that the folks making
decisions of how the internet should run, "the experts", are not always as
smart as they think they are. They make mistakes. And it's hard to get a bunch
of know-it-all's to agree.

It's also hard to get the entire `net to switch their behaviour, and adopt
something that is incompatible with IPv4, without telling them what benefit
they will gain by doing so. Can you blame them? But the "experts" and their
zombie followers sure are trying.

IPv4 works. NAT works. NAT can be traversed. So what is the problem exactly?

As a home user, I can set up my own NAT'ing scheme with private IPv4 space far
easier than I can learn to deal with the added complexity of IPv6.

OK, now I will get skewered by IPv6 fanatics. How many of them are getting
paid to do IPv6 consulting work?

IPv4: It Just Works. "Experts": They make mistakes, just like everyone else.

Now, let's hear from the "experts".

~~~
devdas
What happens when your ISP has to NAT you?

------
tveita
And in Asia: APNIC initiated last block measures in April last year.

<http://www.apnic.net/publications/news/2011/final-8>

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TazeTSchnitzel
"almost"?

I'm still stuck on an IPv4 connection at home, in Britain. My phone still
can't get IPv6 on mobile internet. My VPS host still doesn't support IPv6 on
my server. And PHP still fails to properly parse some types of IPv6 address.

Things have got better, sure, but don't say it's almost gone. Far from it.

~~~
ryannielsen
The notice is about IPv4 allocation, not about IPv6 market penetration. RIPE
NCC has just begun allocating IPv4 addresses from the last available /8 block.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Ah, fair enough.

------
diminoten
Hey 2004 called, they want their headline back.

When you consider the ability for inter-RIR transfer of networks, not to
mention the market being developed (already released?) by ARIN (do other RIRs
have markets?), and you've got a great recipe for a run on IP addresses.

------
sjwright
IPv6 is just like the transition to Python 3: it'll happen... eventually. But
the only people with an incentive to put the hard work in are people who are
genuinely enthusiastic about the transition. Everyone else is sticking it in
the too-hard basket.

~~~
ay
This is a fairly outdated meme by now. Just that the enthusiasts are loud
about it. Everyone else does not rush tell the world about their plans - it
takes on average about 3 years to get everything in place, so this is a pretty
good head-start against the competition :-)

~~~
sjwright
I didn't realise I stumbled upon a meme!

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indiecore
Yep and nothing will be done by ISPs until they are all completely gone (and
maybe not even then, scarcity is good for business).

~~~
oasisbob
This isn't true.

Comcast, Verizon, and T-Mobile are a few of the big eyeball networks who are
making large infrastructure investments in IPv6. ISPs are far ahead of most
content and hosting providers in this area, as they bear the pain of IPv4
scarcity when providing addresses to their subscribers.

Transit providers are on the whole prepared for v6 as well.

As an ISP, you don't want to wake up one day and see analysis that your
network numbering is at odds with your growth plans.

~~~
zaphoyd
Not only are they making large infrastructure investments, a many of their
customers (including myself) can get IPv6 service from all three of those
companies today and have been able to for some time.

