
Background on Attempts to Frame Assange as a Pedophile and Russian Spy - Tomte
https://www.wikileaks.org/Background-and-Documents-on-Attempts-to-Frame-Assange-as-a-Pedophile-and.html
======
imron
They're coming on thick and strong with attempts to discredit the source,
rather than deny the authenticity of the material.

Ironically, the former actually serves as an authentication of the material
itself.

As Tyrion Lannister would say, "when you tear out a man's tongue, you are not
proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might
say".

Edit: to clear up confusion, by 'source' I mean wikileaks and Julian Asssange,
how it seems they're pulling out all the stops to try and discredit him, with
'they' being whoever is afraid of what he has to leak.

~~~
makomk
They're coming on thick and strong with attempts to discredit the source
because the source is seriously lacking in credibility. I'd already spotted
and commented on the bizarre UN shenanigans earlier:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12737648](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12737648)
The fact that the sole source is a dating company press release in which they
claim to be a United Nations signatory and member, and that they accuse the UN
of conspiring with Assange and the Bahamas police, should've been enough
justification not to take everything as gospel. Unfortunately, Daily Kos are
keen to attack Assange and not so keen on fact checking and research, as are
Mrs Clinton's Twitter supporters.

~~~
cryoshon
>They're coming on thick and strong with attempts to discredit the source
because the source is seriously lacking in credibility

the way they could do this correctly is to contradict assange's claims with
evidence... do that, and if their evidence is valid, assange's claims
collapse.

but they aren't doing that; they can't do that.

here is the recipe upcoming from the clinton campaign:

1\. attack source

2\. escalate attacks on source

3\. deny claims of source categorically

4\. deny context of facts that source puts forth

5\. deny specifics of facts that source puts forth

6\. deny involvement of high level people

7\. throw scapegoats

8\. deny witting involvement of high level people

9\. admit item numbers 3 through 8, sequentially, as separate steps

10\. media "loses attention" of the story before reaching the point where high
level people admit that the allegations of the source are correct

this cycle will take a while, maybe a year or so.

------
blhack
Am I the only one somewhat concerned over the absolutely blatant declarations
that Russia is now our enemy again?

You've got a one presidential candidate claiming that the other is Bad Guy
because he might have ties to The Russians.

It sounds like something from McCarthyism, or from the height of the cold war.

And now the mainstream attempts to discredit what is effectively a
whistleblowing service seem to center around The Russians.

It's creepy.

~~~
the_watcher
Russia has been behaving as, if not an enemy, an actor whose interests align
with our enemies (see: their partnership with Iran, their support of Assad,
and their annexation of Crimea).

And while it's ironic to watch the media that could not have been more
supportive of Wikileaks when the reveals focused on Bush-era scandals (at
least some of which deserved the attention as abuses) now discovering that
Assange is as self-interested as they come now that his dumps concern Clinton,
who they're clearly much more supportive of than Trump (justifiably), but he's
been known to despise Hillary for a long time now, and the recent dumps have
been far less carefully redacted this time around. Wikileaks should be a
whistleblowing service. Unfortunately, Assange won't let it be that simple.

~~~
drakonandor
When did Assad become our enemy?

~~~
M_Grey
When he started chlorine and barrel bombing civilians?

~~~
pdx
> When he started chlorine and barrel bombing civilians?

I would suggest to you that the world is more complicated than the soundbites
vomited to you by the as of lately, largely discredited media and Obama
administration.

The accusations against Assad change as necessary. It used to be Sarin, until
that was disproved, for example. Bottom line, they just really want Syria to
be destroyed like Iraq and Libya were, and will make up accusations as
necessary. Did he drop some barrel bombs (home made bombs)? Probably. Did some
of them hit civilians? Probably. The US has killed it's share of civilians
also, hasn't it?

You don't know anything, but you want a nuclear war with Russia. Seems
appropriate.

[https://off-guardian.org/2016/07/25/assad-the-tyrant/](https://off-
guardian.org/2016/07/25/assad-the-tyrant/)

~~~
the_watcher
Wait, are you actually defending Assad?

EDIT: just want clarify that I don't necessarily disagree that Iraq and Libya
were disasters, and that the Syrian situation seems to have devolved into a no
good options situation, but that in no way excuses Assad's human rights
violations.

~~~
poshli
As the previous posters have stated, it's complicated.

If Assad's regime falls, the Al-Queda and ISIS affiliated groups move in. I'm
not sure America wants that. Do we want that? Hard to say!

Saudi Arabia supports the Assad regime falling because the Assad regime is not
Sunni.

If we set up a no fly zone in Syria, we are then in direct conflict with
Russia's forces. It's no longer a proxy war.

I hope there's a way to be against US intervention in Syria(if only because of
grim realpolitik reasons) and simultaneously not defend Assad.

I fully recognize that the Assad regime is terrible(I can pummel you with New
Yorker articles). I don't quite believe the Assad people used poison gas, I
think the jury is still out on that.

~~~
the_watcher
As I mentioned, Syria seems to have spiralled into a "there are no good
outcomes" territory. But the fact that deposing Assad could (is even likely)
to create a new enemy doesn't negate the behavior that has landed Syria on the
state sponsors of terror list.

------
hactually
So they're saying Assange is a dangerous sex offender who also likes to try
and fuck kids over the internet via dating agencies, while taking Russian
bribes.

It all reads like the lowest budget attempt at framing someone possible.

~~~
daodedickinson
Well, it may be two independently launched plans.

~~~
dom0
Ahaha, I'm thinking about "Burn Notice" right now :D

~~~
cmdrfred
Jeffrey Donovan and Bruce Campbell should make an appearance in the next House
of Cards season.

------
IBM
Big winners of this election cycle:

Trump - If he wins, it's big. If he loses his brand is immensely toxic and no
business/brand will want to do business with him. He'll have to go the Glenn
Beck route and create his own media network and try to sustain and leverage
the alt-right movement.

Alex Jones - Getting a lot more mainstream penetration in my view. He'll be
selling a lot more seeds and prepper gear.

Julian Assange - Got a new lease on life after he started fading from
relevance, especially after Snowden outscooped anything Wikileaks did.

~~~
bla2
Not sure, Assange / wikileaks went from "impartial leaked docs hosting
service" to "at the whim of founder's grudges" for me. Releasing the dem
emails is fine, timing it for maximum damage to Dems election prospects isn't.

~~~
marcoperaza
Anyone who ever thought it was the first was deluding themselves. Assange has
always has an agenda. It's just that his old supporters don't like the new
flavor of his Koolaid.

~~~
contingencies
If Assange had 'an agenda' (how nebulous) then why would he have been
successful at interviewing the world's most cited academic, Noam Chomsky, and
other high-level thought and political leaders? What exactly is the 'agenda'
he is supposed to have? You are spreading fallacious FUD.

~~~
marcoperaza
Are you really implying that Chomsky doesn't have an agenda? He's more famous
for his political nonsense, e.g. being a far-lefty who supports people like
Castro and Chavez, than his actually (very good) linguistics research.

~~~
contingencies
Yes, I am.

Chomsky publishes his research and backs his arguments with innumerable facts,
the man is practically a walking encyclopedia of US foreign policy, human
rights violations and hypocrisy over the last 100 years.

The difference between an academic and someone with an 'agenda' is that one is
interested in the truth and publishes cited analyses, the other is only
motivated to impress a particular opinion.

Chomsky is voted by the global community of academics as a valued member of
that community. Against that shadow, your assertions are valueless.

------
notacoward
So far the only link to Clinton seems to be post-hoc (this happened around the
same time as the Podesta etc. emails) and guilt by association (the
accusations were reported on DailyKos and "pro-Clinton Twitter accounts").
Weak. Is there really anything more, or is this just Assange being Assange?

~~~
notahacker
If there's one person that doesn't stand to gain from lots and lots of
attention being drawn to Julian Assange, it's Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton
doesn't want you to be researching into this Julian Assange guy whose
apparently been the victim of a scheme to accuse him of accepting Russian
money and chatting up infants in the Bahamas, both via the same dating website
(which is obviously a totally plausible cover story that a real conspirator
with near unlimited resources would definitely choose as the best avenue to
set him up) but also has a very interesting website with a lot of very awkward
statements linked to at least one of the candidates for the presidency.

If there's one person that stands to gain _most_ from a reported attempt at a
hatchet job on Assange that's far too silly to have any basis in truth, it's
probably a person who would really, really like you to (i) visit
Wikileaks.com, preferably before November 9th (ii) not believe a word of all
these - actually quite possibly not true - rumours floating around about
Russians being prime movers behind Wikileaks.com (iii) not think too much
about that interview he just postponed again because obviously allegations of
sexual impropriety against Julian Assange are just part of a fiendishly stupid
conspiracy.

Funnily enough in the last couple of weeks this person has also had his
internet cut by a state actor... wait for next round of stories.... not the
state actor you think... wait for next round of stories.... just kidding, it
was American influence all along, _and_ had to cancel a widely publicised
balcony announcement because of apparently unanticipated security concerns.

(I can actually think of a second person that might benefit from people
visiting Wikileaks before November 9th and people tending to suspect that all
allegations of sexual impropriety should be treated as politically motivated
until proven otherwise, but I think Ockham's razor and his campaign team's
preference for blunter instruments rules that one out...)

~~~
makomk
Except that it was almost entirely Clinton supporters pushing this on sites
like Daily Kos, Twitter, HN, etc. Wikileaks were really late to the party on
getting a press release out about this, with Buzzfeed dismantling the whole
thing shortly before they got their press release out and rendering it almost
moot, and the attack was timed when the internet connection cut limited their
ability to respond effectively. The fact that the whole hatchet job was
ridiculous didn't matter, because Clinton's supporters just ignored this and
accused anyone who pointed it out of being pro-pedo, and it got almost 24
hours of being spread around the internet unchallenged. Not only that,
countering it tied up a bunch of time and resources that could've been used to
post things damaging to her instead.

It looks like Ecuador have also just published a press release about cutting
his internet connection that's perfectly timed to distract from this too. So
Clinton's in no way losing out here. She benefits from people believing that
Assange is a pedo and no-one hears about part where it's an incompetent
frameup. The taint from this will stick to anything Assange says about her in
future.

~~~
paulmd
Clinton doesn't need a conspiracy to win, it's as simple as that. She's
polling at +8 nationally, if the election were held today she has at least a
75% chance of a landslide election (320+ EVs) if the election were held today,
and there's zero indication that Trump's numbers have any upward mobility
whatsoever at this point. In fact, the Republicans will be lucky to hold onto
the House if things keep going the way they have the past couple weeks.

There's no reason to do a dumb attempt at stinging a has-been like Assange.
Literally all it could do is hurt her (if it backfired and people took Assange
seriously).

[http://election.princeton.edu/todays-electoral-vote-
histogra...](http://election.princeton.edu/todays-electoral-vote-histogram/)

Hanlon's Razor says that if it looks like some dumb idiot ("small business
owner") who thought he could hire Assange for his TV commercial and then got
his jimmies rustled that Assange said no then it probably is that instead of
an international conspiracy. But even if we're moving into conspiracy
territory, Clinton doesn't have the motive here.

------
bhouston
Just today someone was posting the Todd and Claire website links to hacker
news stories on Assange. Sucks to be targeted like this constabtly.

First post of this to hw news that I saw:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12736247](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12736247)

I noticed this post because it was pretty shitty source for such strong
accusations.

------
powera
Was this "Todd and Clare" site created by Assange himself?

Seriously, what the hell dating site claims to be "the first dating site ever
to be integrated in a United Nations program."?

~~~
notahacker
Read the article and it's even better. With gems like

"The UN Declaration on Human Rights talks about citizens being able to live
without state-level interference, yet here the UN is today, delisting and
blocking a small company because we criticized their support for Julian
Assange"

Which is a little odd form of argument, not only because it's an unusually
highbrow line for a dating agency to take, but also because it doesn't make
sense as the UN isn't really "state-level" and the UNDHR doesn't use that word
either.

Almost like the person drafting it had interference by "state-level actors" on
the brain. Wonder if anyone tweeted something which also used that rather
rather arcane term to their 3.7M followers recently?

------
WhitneyLand
tldr: Recent events have been suggestive of a plot to frame Asange for sex
crimes. If it pans out, it could become the strongest evidence that false
allegations are being made against him.

First, the backstory on this bizarre entanglement:
[https://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/the-bizarre-
story-o...](https://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/the-bizarre-story-of-how-
a-tiny-online-dating-site-accused-j)

Second, who is the mystery Google engineer tied into this?

------
smegel
> Under US law, Mr Assange and Wikileaks’ threats amount to terrorism against
> an American citizen (ToddandClare.com) by a foreign entity

Really.

From [https://www.toddandclare.com/datinglife/online-
dating/united...](https://www.toddandclare.com/datinglife/online-
dating/united-nations-statement-julian-assange-wikileaks/)

> The UN wants to have its headquarters in our country, but at the same time,
> doesn’t want to acknowledge its own American member’s constitutional rights,
> like freedom of speech.

Quite a political statement coming from a mere dating site :/

And

> Like the UN Working Group on Arbitrary Detention’s misguided support for a
> fugitive rapist

Well he has had that _allegation_ hanging over him well before T&C started
signing deals with him they are now trying to sue him over.

~~~
464192002d7fe1c
> a mere dating site

Kinda making me think its not? Don't the 3-letters routinely buy or start
companies like this to use for their own purposes?

------
infectoid
So here is a report on toddandclare.com / T&C Network Solutions.

[https://wikileaks.org/IMG/pdf/final_report_t_c_17_oct_2016-2...](https://wikileaks.org/IMG/pdf/final_report_t_c_17_oct_2016-2.pdf)

Does sound pretty sus.

But I was also interested in the quote they have from Noam Chomsky on the
KATIA project...

“Very worthwhile project.” —Noam Chomsky on KATIA, 5/11/16

Can't find him mentioning it or anything like it online. Just circular
references and none that lead back to Chomsky.

All very odd indeed.

------
api
So we have what appears to be a full-on hot propaganda war between an
apparently independent "hacker" and the leading presidential candidate.

I'll say it again: just move all those old 80s cyberpunk novels into the non-
fiction section. Pretty soon we'll have Rastas in space.

~~~
hprotagonist
as long as i get my knight visions and redneck katana!

------
elevensies
Apropos nothing it occurred to me there is an excellent property of encrypted
drives, even if you can be forced to decrypt them, illegal data can't be added
to the drive by physical capture alone until you are forced to turn over the
password.

------
cryoshon
this seems like pretty good proof that the dirt on clinton is real,
legitimate, and devastating... why else would there be such a sudden and
intense effort to shut him up (push ecuador to cut off his internet) discredit
him, shut him down, and smear him as an enemy spy?

seriously, if the allegations were crazy, they'd just say "nope, and here are
the facts that are correct". all hands on deck for discrediting him speaks
volumes about what is really going on.

the pedophilia smear is very predictable, also... i believe assange himself
may have predicted this years ago.

------
contingencies
Wikileaks team: If there is any need for further research from within the UN I
have a very high-level friend within that section.

