
Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin - newy
https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2018/11/08/business/08reuters-ford-scooter.html
======
mjg59
Of the scooter companies that have launched in the Bay area, Spin were by far
the least technically advanced - the scooters were basically unmodified
Xiaomis, to the extent of still having power buttons. Rather than an
integrated location and management system, location data came from a off-the-
shelf GPS tracker spliced off the battery lines. Since the scooter control
board had no cellular link, there was no mechanism for Spin to directly manage
the scooters which meant that handshaking involved the app notifying Spin's
API that the user was going to hire a scooter and then sending an unlock code
back to the scooter via Bluetooth. Locking was the inverse, which left plenty
of opportunity for state to get out of sync (server thinks scooter is unlocked
but the unlocking failed, or vice versa).

It's possible that their launch was very much an MVP and they've been doing a
lot of engineering work in the background, but they were _way_ behind Lime and
Bird at launch time.

(Edited to clarify that the unlock code is sent via Bluetooth)

~~~
rootsudo
Is the unlock code unique, or the same for that specific bluetooth serial
number?

~~~
mjg59
This is an excellent question that I am going to decline to answer.

~~~
Relys
eScooterKeyGen.exe lol ;p

~~~
WrtCdEvrydy
You joke, but there are android apps that will bruteforce the admin password
on the current router you're connected to using the standard admin logins for
each manufacturer.

------
splurge100
All of the commenters saying e-scooters shouldn't be allowed on sidewalks are
right. Sidewalks in most densely populated US cities are too narrow and busy
to safely allow a human gliding along at 15 mph within ~2 ft of a doorway
where another human may be exiting, or past blind corners.

The bigger issue is that e-scooter parking is fundamentally broken right now.
Despite being told not to, users still park them in the middle of a pedestrian
walkway. Even if the user parks them correctly, they get knocked over or blow
over into the walkway. This product is broken until these companies do what
Jump did, and INTEGRATE A LOCK INTO THE PRODUCT, and make users lock it to
something at the end of their ride. This almost entirely eliminates the
problem of blocking a walkway, and also reduces the loss of product to theft,
accidental damage, etc.

Since they're required by law in California, I'd also like helmets to be
integrated into the locking mechanism, but that's a nice-to-have.

E-scooter companies: Build locks into your products. It fixes many of your
problems.

~~~
m4x
Scooters seem unnecessary in densely populated cities. Most high-density areas
have good public transport within a few minutes walk of your destination, and
the footpaths are too busy to ride a scooter on anyway.

They are much more useful in medium-density cities and suburbs where the roads
and footpaths are less busy and public transport is not as effective.

I love using my scooter for commuting and errands in my low-density city, but
I can't imagine riding it through a busy CBD - not on the road _or_ the
footpath. And yet that seems to be where most of these scooter rental
companies are deploying. It seems crazy.

~~~
mikepurvis
"Cars seem unnecessary in densely populated cities. Most high-density areas
have good public transport within a few minutes walk of your destination, and
the roads are too busy to drive a car on anyway."

FTFY

~~~
m4x
Cars address a different set of requirements. You use one when you need to
transport many people, heavy cargo, tools, etc. A scooter does not solve any
of those problems.

A scooter does allow a single person and their possessions to travel at faster
than walking pace without getting sweaty. In the CBD that is not necessary,
since public transport works so well. In the suburbs a scooter is more
effective.

~~~
mikepurvis
Sure, but look at your typical freeway rush hour traffic jam— how many of
those vehicles really have multiple people or heavy cargo?

The point is that for short commutes and as a last mile solution to extend the
coverage of public transit, scooters are amazing. And a rental system means
they can stay downtown instead of needing to take up space both ways on the
mass transit vehicle.

~~~
m4x
> Sure, but look at your typical freeway rush hour traffic jam - how many of
> those vehicles really have multiple people or heavy cargo?

I'm not sure how that's relevant. You edited my comment to try and make it
apply to cars, but it does not - cars are necessary both in the CBD and out
for instances where you need to transport cargo etc, while scooters are less
necessary in the CBD if you can use good public transport instead.

The fact that many people use cars when they _aren 't_ necessary is not
relevant, other than to note that there's a lot of potential to reduce traffic
by replacing single-occupant cars with personal transport.

And I'm not claiming that scooters or scooter rentals are bad - I love my
scooter and see scooter rental companies as a big part of reducing the number
of cars on the road. But why do they insist on deploying in areas where
scooters are not wanted? Why not focus on the areas where they are most
practical?

~~~
achompas
> But why do they insist on deploying in areas where scooters are not wanted?
> Why not focus on the areas where they are most practical?

Because the most population-dense areas (NYC, SF) also happen to have the
highest density of VC investment money.

I agree with you all the way up until here! I live in Miami, where single-
passenger cars are king. Scooters would be great here. But the cities that
would benefit most from scooters are not exactly overflowing with investment
money.

------
floatrock
What you're seeing is car companies trying to transition to "mobility"
companies -- the difference being the former is a manufacturing company with
3% margins and the latter being a services company with much fatter margins.

Autonomous car fleets are the main "mobility services" prize of course -- all
the major OEMs have autonomous research labs -- but you're seeing more
interest in scooters and bikes (there was a headline about GM releasing an
e-bike last week).

~~~
sonnyblarney
No, I don't think this is a transition.

What we're likely seeing is M&A people caught up in the hype and trends.

In some ways, it's worth spending some amount as a hedge against something
happening, but I don't believe these scooters will represent any meaningful
change ... personally I think they are kind of a fad.

The logistics, cost, narrow use cases of all of it just don't work out well
enough. Truly - what % of people could actually commute using these things?
It's very small. Of those, who would actually do it? In winter? Up and down
hills? Are they a little bit too old for this, or maybe not so open minded?
Are there status issues, i.e. if you are a 'serious professional' in many
industries it just doesn't bode well to be bouncing around on a scooter (I
know this might seem foreign maybe to HN readers but this is a thing). And
then of course - if it was useful for commuting, why wouldn't people just end
up buying one so they always have it when needed? I think the use cases for
these scooters is very narrow.

While I agree the general attitude of 'moving beyond traditional cars' is a
strategic impetus, and it makes a lot of sense to 'participate' in these
things early on ... I don't think this is a secular shift. Not yet anyhow.

America is a very spread out place - even LA.

And we're only just starting to see the regulatory and populist backlash.

~~~
iknowstuff
>Truly - what % of people could actually commute using these things? It's very
small. Of those, who would actually do it? In winter? Up and down hills? Are
they a little bit too old for this, or maybe not so open minded?

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RQrKP9a0XE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RQrKP9a0XE)

Potentially: Everyone, winter to summer (look up his other videos), up and
down hills (they're electric, hills don't matter), regardless of age. America
is not the only country in the world, but even the US has cities far denser
than the spread out, gridlocked hell of LA like San Francisco or NYC.

~~~
angled
Macau is by far more dense, has a large petrol scooter population, and almost
no e-scooters. Petrol scooters are far more flexible at this point in terms of
speed, torque, gross weight carried; and announce themselves much better in
the many twisty / blind streets and alleys.

It also rains a lot. Do people ride e-scooters in the rain in SF?

------
the_watcher
I used Bird, Lime, Lyft, and Jump scooters over the weekend in LA and they
were great for getting around when I'd have otherwise considered driving (over
a 45 minute walk). I tried a Skip scooter again when I got back to SF, and
once again, it simply could not handle a minor (for SF) hill. I don't know
what the solution is, since it seems like a bad idea to power them more to
handle hills given the dangers that would pose on flat (or downhill) terrain,
but I can't imagine them really taking hold in the same way in hilly cities.

~~~
justchilly
The old Bird and Lime scooters had 250W motors. The new Skip scooters have
350W (plus suspension which is nice). The skips can get to a walking pace up
to ~10% grade, but grind to a halt anywhere near Nob/Russian Hill. You need at
least 750W to do the trick.

They also all have just a single break, which makes going down those hills
dangerous.

~~~
twoheadedboy
What about Jump bikes? Because they go up hills pretty easily. Not the
steepest ones but I get around pretty well with them in my neighborhood, which
has lots of hills.

~~~
justchilly
Jump bikes are 250 and yep, pretty good for SF hills. 250 W goes a lot further
on an ebike (as a compliment to to leg power) than a scooter.

------
Sephr
Am I the only one who wants to see more _seated_ scooter innovation? I would
much prefer riding one of these self-balancing scooters/microcycles to the
standing scooters that everyone is using.

1\. [http://rynomotors.com](http://rynomotors.com) (launches April 16, 2019)

2\. [https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/newest-fat-tyre-
elect...](https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/newest-fat-tyre-electric-
unicycle-one_60748336939.html)

3\.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcZk9zn82-g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcZk9zn82-g)

~~~
tln
Why not just rent/ride an ebike? Once you put a seat on a normal 2-wheeled
scooter it's not much smaller than a bike.

I'm not sure I'd trust the balancing capabilities of the unicycles you've
linked to, especially in the face of shitty roads. Have you tried one?

~~~
Sephr
These are much safer than small-wheeled scooters as their larger wheels allows
them to more gracefully handle bumps in the road.

Also, unlike most ebikes I can actually sit stationary on these without
falling over. I'm very short and most ebikes are not designed for short
people.

~~~
tln
Yeah rental ebikes don't scale down very well. You should be able to buy a
bike that fits you well, and add ebike capabilities via a kit (yourself or
have someone do it).

I haven't used a balancing unicycle, but based on experience with other
balancing vehicles, I doubt I'd feel safe going as fast as on a scooter.
Sounds like you might own one?

------
dba7dba
I just wanted to point out that Hyundai Motor demoed a electric scooter as an
accessory for the Ioniq line in Jan 2017 at CES.

[https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/pictures/hyundais-ioniq-
scoote...](https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/pictures/hyundais-ioniq-scooter-
concept-looks-more-fun-that-its-car-ces-2017/)

And BIRD was founded in Apr 2017.

Some staff PM/engr/marketer folks at Hyundai Motor had the right idea. Too bad
they were not in a position to start a startup.

edit: I'm not saying BIRD or any other copied Hyundai. Coming up with the idea
and executing it is a big accomplishment. Electric motor scooters have been
around a long time too.

------
danans
These e-scooters could be a really great way for many cities to decrease
short-haul car dependency, but they really need to be off the sidewalks.

A motor-propelled machine going 15 mph doesn't belong on the same surface as a
baby stroller, a senior citizen, or a person with a disability.

They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place), and
their speed should be capped in areas of dense foot traffic.

~~~
randyrand
I've owned both a scooter and skateboard for 7 months.

I disagree, you can ride a scooter on a sidewalk safely and I need to do it
from time to time. Of course, I don't prefer it. But it's pretty easy to do
safely and it shouldn't bother anyone if done correctly.

The rules I follow:

1\. Go much much slower.

2\. Stay far away from other people and blind corners.

3\. Always assume a person is about to make an erratic movement

4\. Never pass closely to a person. When passing, go their walking speed +
1mph. It should be a similar speed differential to passing someone when you're
walking.

5\. If you have no space to pass, you need to go walking speed until space
opens up.

6\. if the sidewalk is too packed, just get off and walk it.

7\. If you have far visibility (no blind corners, doorways, storefronts, etc)
and there is no one in sight, let'er rip.

It all depends on the conditions. You should _never_ blow by people at 15 mph.
I commuted partly on 5th street in downtown Los Angeles and never had an
issue, a close call, or had someone bat an eye. The goal is to blend in with
other people walking.

~~~
komali2
Nobody follows these rules. Whenever a skater is coming at me I very much get
a "get the fuck out of my way, peasant" vibe.

That's why I believe they should be _enforceable rules_ aka laws.

~~~
randyrand
I follow them. You really have no choice if you care about your own and others
safety.

~~~
komali2
Well, thank you, that's very good, but that doesn't exactly solve the problem.

I'm a hard-line rule following bicyclist, but I have no control over the other
cyclists that blast past me at red lights. What are we supposed to do, render
our nonexistent authority over them? I suppose I can say "please don't do
that," but I try that and it has no effect.

~~~
robotkdick
I applaud your attempt at civil discourse. You deserve a medal for patience.
Thank you for posting as I think discussions like this could use more of your
style.

------
groth
These scooters aren't suppose to replace lyft or bart or muni. They're suppose
to let you get from 24th mission to 16th mission with minimum context
switching & waiting. This translates less well to manhattan but would (if
theft weren't a problem) to Brooklyn, most 2nd tier cities in the U.S., and
college campuses. I think it's a good investment.

~~~
dcosson
Why not Manhattan? The sidewalk docking might be an issue in some
neighborhoods but if they managed to get street docking areas like the citi
bikes it would be a perfect fit in Manhattan as well.

------
andrewljohnson
There I was, sitting at the busy intersection of Sacramento and Ashby in
Berkeley, when I saw two boys that couldn't have been more than 8-10 years old
fly by on Bird Scooters. And I thought to myself, some kid is going to die.

And lots of people do die on these things:
[https://www.google.com/search?q=bird+scooters+deaths](https://www.google.com/search?q=bird+scooters+deaths)

These scooter companies suck, I wish they'd all go away. If they weren't all
going for hypergrowth, they'd be less of a menace. I can see the boon for
commuters on the last mile, but when I weight that against how they endanger
children, encourage illegal usage of sidewalks, ruin pedestrian experiences,
and don't provide helmets - I think the industry is in need of a reckoning.

They also totally wrecked the coastal street/"boardwalk" in San Diego. As a
pedestrian, you're constantly looking over your shoulder for drunk idiots on
scooters.

~~~
dangwu
You have to be 18 years old with a driver's license to ride Bird scooters.

~~~
andrewljohnson
Theoretically.

~~~
dangwu
Legally. And the app makes you take a screenshot of your license

~~~
Balgair
I've not tried it, but how easy is it to fake the ID? Like, does the photo
feed to a person that OKs the ID manually, or does it just look for some
vaguely rectangulary shaped object?

~~~
Cristian_knur
It scans the barcode and makes sure the id is valid. If it can't determine
that it will ask people to take a picture of the id, which then gets manually
reviewed by a human.

Disclosure: I work for one of the big scooter companies.

~~~
Balgair
Thanks for the info!

------
androidgirl
Are any of these electric scooters worthwhile for hilly commutes?

I live about a mile from the closest train stop, and currently I walk to and
from because the entire way is steep coming back, at 10% grade.

My gut tells me a scooter would need to be unreasonably powerful to work in
this area.

~~~
madeuptempacct
"Scoot" is absolutely fine on hills. Drove it from Pier 1 to Golden Gate park
on California and back with zero problems on hills. Of course, BMWs will make
it a point to shoot by you to show their superiority, but you won't be holding
up traffic up hills.

I do wonder what would have happened if my phone died before I parked the
Scoot. Seems like it would be a pain in the ass.

~~~
mertd
You must be talking about the Scoot motorcycles. I don't see the little
scooters lasting from Pier 1 to GGP and back.

~~~
madeuptempacct
I am - the ones that aren't legal on the sidewalk. I don't see why you would
get the little scooters. There didn't seem to be that much price difference.

------
whoisjuan
First Chariot and now Spin (also investments and partnerships with Lyft and
Zoom Car in India). Seems like Ford is betting on a future where they see
people rejecting the idea of owning a car and where car companies are just
mobility providers.

------
Hippocrates
I’ve recently visited Santa Cruz, where I rode my first jump bike. I had an
absolute blast with it, raved about it to friends non-stop for weeks. More
recently, I experienced my first Bird scooter (and Lime) in Indianapolis. I
did many fun things there so I didn’t expect that these silly scooters to be
the highlight of the trip, but they were.

Aside from being an insanely fun and effective way to get around a city, my
favorite thing about them stems from my hatred of cars. I own a car. But
selfishly only like cars when its _my_ car and _I_ am driving it. Other than
that, I think they’re dangerous, loud, expensive, terrible for the
environment, and far too plentiful in crowded city streets. They crash and
congest roads shared with public transit, wreaking havoc daily commutes, oh
and they frequently murder the more tender specimens on the road.

I get disappointed when I see people complaining about these scooters and
bikes “cluttering up the walkways” and pedestrians having “dangerous
encounters”. I will admit it I saw a fair number of scooters that had fallen
over on walkways. It really didn’t faze me. Walk around it. Step over it. Pick
it up if you’re in a great mood. Maybe society needs time to adjust and
develop more etiquette. It could be handled better, but to call this an
immediate “problem” is just wrong— And what are the stats on scooter vs.
pedestrian fatalities?

This debate reminds me of the hiker vs. equestrian vs. mountain biker tension.
We all want to use the same trails and it’s a bit contentious. Hikers feel
threatened by the fast moving bikers. Bikers are inconvenienced by people
walking slowly on the trails. The horses are just taking 6LB dumps all over
the path for everyone else to step in and ride through. They all try to lobby
and ban one another from using the trails. Nobody seems to care about anything
they aren’t partaking in.

In the end, people should be open to alternative forms of transportation that
are effective regardless of whether they utilize it. I think these bike and
scooter shares represent a massive objective improvement over cars, and even
public transit. It might take some time for etiquette and city planning to
catch up, but we need to check the hall monitor mentality and give it time,
for the greater good.

------
samontar
Interesting scheme. You corner a scarce resource and then sell it. I wonder
what new permit schemes we’re going to see and how we can capitalize on this.

------
dawhizkid
I talked to a self-driving PM recently and he said that self-driving cars are
a extremely expensive and complex way to reduce cost per mile urban
transit/taxis and admitted scooters might be a much cheaper way to accomplish
the same thing.

~~~
adrr
The biggest issue for urban transit is safety. I don't think scooters can be a
valid replacement for cars until the streets are redesigned or all the cars
are self-driving. I used to bike to work until a couple close calls. I don't
feel comfortable riding a bike or a scooter unless its a dedicated bike lane
away from parked cars so I don't get doored.

------
poulsbohemian
Would be really nice to see F turn around:
[https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/f?ltr=1](https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/f?ltr=1)

~~~
karpodiem
Detroiter here - I'm off of Adams Ave. downtown, next to Grand Circus
Park/Comerica.

Ford needs -

1) Better styling. I just bought a Grand Cherokee, and despite the 2020 Ford
Explorer being RWD, I would never consider a Ford vehicle. Their
exterior/interior styling is bland.

2) An off-road sub brand to compete against Jeep. The upcoming Bronco/baby
Bronco/Ranger is a start, but Jeep is making a killing with the brand image
despite 95% of people only taking their Wranglers over curbs in a mall parking
lot. The 'dream' sells. They need to compete with Jeep in off-road prowess to
sell the dream.

3) High performance trim levels for 2020+ vehicles high margin vehicles
(Nautilus, Explorer, Aviator, F150, Mustang, Navigator) with hybrid/electric
options that have a sub 10.5 second quarter mile.

~~~
rhinoceraptor
I have no idea what I’m going to get when my 17 Focus ST dies, hopefully there
will still be manual (or at least sporty electric) hatchbacks...

~~~
Marsymars
I'm on an older Fiesta. If I were buying a new car today, depending on
priorities (for me, manual, hatchback, sat radio, safety), I'd be looking at
an Impreza (only model that currently hits every checkbox for me), Corolla
Hatch, or Elantra GT. (Possibly Mazda 3 hatch or Audi A4 if I'm willing to
make more compromises.)

------
yayitswei
Congrats to the Spin team!

------
csours
Can someone explain the valuation on these scooter companies?

~~~
SteveCoast
Humans will always need to move around, yet it's not clear _how_ we'll move
around in the future. While self-driving cars have potential it's not clear
that dense urban areas will make a ton of sense for them, and so perhaps bikes
or scooters or something else will become the norm.

On the other hand, we spend enormous amounts of money on other solutions like
busses or underground metro systems in dense urban areas which have
significant problems like not taking you where you want to go. If there are
systems which do get you where you want to go you might not have to make those
up front and gigantic investments in future.

If you have systems which are point to point, then the value of real estate
that isn't near a metro stop can go up since you don't have to price in the
walk from that place to a metro stop. There are all kinds of fun implications.

Also, scooters might only be step 1. Maybe self-driving scooters with a 5 mile
range are step 2, or something.

So if you compare to existing systems you can argue that scooter valuations
are cheap if that's the direction we're going, though that isn't certain.

~~~
csours
Thanks. I guess I was trying to imagine an amount income over time per device
multiplied by a number of devices that would lead to a valuation of over a
billion dollars.

------
KKKKkkkk1
How does the investment in Spin compare to the one in Argo AI? Are electric
scooters hotter than self-driving cars?

------
jahewson
Perhaps we need a self-driving scooter?

------
maybebad
I am enjoying all of the comments here. I was lucky enough to study traffic-
as-density-waves in younger days, and I think the future will be very
positive. For this particular argument, I think the common themes to solve are
lack of infrastructure, and the resulting safety hazards from casual users:

The setbacks: The infrastructure currently does not support the reality of the
populous renting scooters (and bikes and mopeds). City planning was not
developed around the recent technological availability of motorized personal
transportation. Humans are irresponsible, and will leave scooters in
disruptive locations. Humans are reckless, and a large portion won't abide by
the established traffic safety. This "last-mile" transportation movement is a
result of public transportation being a poor experience: slow-moving, dirty,
congested, mismanaged.

Positive thoughts: "last-mile" transportation is highly effective if it could
be implemented properly. Proper implementation would require responsible user
behavior and infrastructure compatibility.

An anecdote: The company Scoot, at least in SF, gave access to moped-like
vehicles for casual commute. Great idea. Give people the ability to personally
navigate dense populations without vehicle ownership.

The problem: driving a personal motorized vehicle in dense large-vehicle
traffic is a major responsibility. For instance, riding a motorcycle is
extremely dangerous, and the vast majority of motorcycle riders take their
safety incredibly seriously. They vehemently abide by traffic laws because
small mistakes can lead to major physical consequences.

Scoot riders have unilaterally behaved like inexperienced idiots in traffic.
Running lights, making last minute decisions, and ignoring speed of traffic
sensibility The casual nature of that commute style leads people to behave
like they are on bicycles, when they are riding around already-frustrated car
and truck drivers.

The same me-first attitude was clearly visible when scooters were widely
available. Even with city permits, people are still selfish.

Solutions:

There are conscious decisions to make city-wide improvements in efficient
transportation. Mass transit combined with low-impact personal vehicles would
be a utopia. But no large city was designed with that reality in mind, and the
"disruptive" companies that make these technologies accessible, often with the
"ask-for-forgiveness" mantra, are very disruptive to both the pedestrian
reality and the detriment of too many cars.

Tl:dr, people are selfish and reckless, and even smart and available
technologies will be abused unless infrastructure is designed to handle human
habits.

~~~
jessriedel
> Humans are irresponsible, and will leave scooters in disruptive locations.

This is not a hard problem to solve. Give scooter companies a ticket if their
scooter is found somewhere disruptive. Let the scooter companies figure out
how to cajole their customers to lower the disruptive-location rate to
reasonable levels.

------
ENadyr
Nice one @newy, congratulations!

------
notatoad
>They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place)

the problem is the existence of bike lanes. If public officials start saying
"scooters belong in the bike lane", then they have to confront the fact that
their cities have no cohesive network of bike lanes that can actually support
a real journey. This has been acceptable up until now, because cyclists are
weird and it's okay to tell them to just ride in amongst trucks travelling
40mph when a bike lane abruptly ends. But e-scooters are for "normal people"
who aren't as content with being told to go play in traffic.

~~~
komali2
> because cyclists are weird and it's okay to tell them to just ride in
> amongst trucks travelling 40mph.

This is unsustainable. It's caused blowback from cyclists. "Fine, you want me
to play in traffic, I'm going to start doing some dumb shit." I say this as a
cyclist, I'm doing only 5 miles round trip but I do it every day. I see people
blow red lights, weaving in and out of traffic, hopping onto the sidewalk,
blasting through crosswalks inbetween pedestrians.

I mean yea, don't give them bikelanes, this is what happens, they feel scorned
or something and start breaking the law.

~~~
imgabe
I also bike. Don't give me a bike lane? That's fine, I'll take the middle of
the traffic lane. Honk all you like, I'm not going to give you room to try and
squeeze between me and the oncoming traffic while I risk getting doored. Cars
can wait.

~~~
rubicon33
Good luck to you, it's a dangerous game you're playing. It just takes one
idiot in a car who doesn't notice you because they're checking their instagram
feed, or whatever, for your life to be over.

I knew someone growing up who was a very successful banker. He had everything
- 3 kids, a beautiful wife, amazing house, etc. Cycled to work every day.

One day, someone didn't see him.

Doctors managed to save his life but he was unable to use any muscle from his
neck down. Had to be on a respirator for the rest of his life. Couldn't talk.
Etc.

He killed himself by driving his motorized wheelchair into a pool. He left
behind a beautiful family and wife.

Good luck, be safe. For the record, I fully support bicyclists and wish our
cities were designed better to promote their safe use. Unfortunately, they
aren't right now, and I hate to see people needlessly punished for choosing to
cycle to work.

~~~
imgabe
I also knew someone who was very successful and died too young leaving behind
3 kids, a beautiful wife, amazing house etc. (I'm not being flip, this is
true). He died in a car accident.

I'll take the relatively small risk of being hit while biking in exchange for
the 100% chance of the very positive benefits (free exercise, no traffic, free
parking). Driving has about the same risk of killing you and 100% chance of
making you fat, miserable, and angry.

~~~
refurb
_You are 15 times more likely to be killed on Britain 's roads if you ride a
bike than if you drive a car._[1]

If you look at total deaths they may seem comparable to driving, but way more
people drive than cycle.

Good on you for dedicating yourself to cycling, but you shouldn't ignore the
increase in risk.

[1][https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cycle-
safety...](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cycle-safety-laws-
new-kim-briggs-death-warning-against-witch-hunt-a7960291.html)

~~~
imgabe
You'd also have to take into account the reduction in life expectancy from the
stress of driving and additional time being sedentary.

------
madeuptempacct
"Scoot" is where it's at anyway.

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phil248
There is simply no space in most inner cities for this mode of transportation.

Which is fine, since inner cities are the most walkable places in the world,
and the most well-served by public transit.

Unless we're prepared to spend billions on new construction over decades,
there is just no infrastructure for a mode of transport that conflicts with
all of the existing modes.

If anything, we should be building more bike lanes (on a gargantuan scale)
since they are proven, efficient and already have substantial infrastructure.

------
nonatribusernm
Own a Segway/Ninebot ES2 w/ the extended battery pack. Top speed 20mph. Have
clocked over 300 miles on it. I live in Boston, Bird tried to launch this
summer and Cambridge/Somerville local gov freaked out (rightfully so). I use
my scooter for 10 mile rides on the bike path, communing and short haul trips.
It gets locked up in my apartment when I’m done with it.

I honestly don’t know if I’d trust public scooters, purely for safety reasons.
(I use Zipcar which is a hit or miss most of the time, some of the cars are
really filthy and broken since you can use it at 18) How often are they
inspected? Do the scooter companies keep maintenance logs? Who fixes them? Do
they use contractors or have in-house staff? Where are they souring the parts?
These things are used way more than mine. I’ve fallen off my scooter twice and
really fucked myself up and I always wear a helmet. One fall I hit the back of
my head behind my right ear on the pavement first. You can easily kill or
cripple yourself or someone else. An adult at 165lbs going 19mph packs a
punch. They are not toys. There’s huge liability here.

This feels like when Uber rolled out. Nobody trusted them and it took time for
regulators to catch up. These tiny electric vehicles are awesome and represent
way more to come. I just hope nobody gets seriously hurt in the process.

