
iPhone SE and the Commodification of the Pocket Computer - mpweiher
https://nadim.computer/posts/2020-04-25-iphonese.html
======
simonh
The SE is Apple’s way of cutting off the oxygen supply to competing me-too mid
and high end Android smartphones, for the many people that really don’t care
about the brand. It’s a no-compromises smartphone with the fastest internals
you can get, plenty of longevity and competitive screen and camera at a
midrange price. If we hadn’t already got XRs for my teenage kids, this SE
would have been the obvious choice.

~~~
megablast
> with the fastest internals you can get, plenty of longevity and competitive
> screen and camera at a midrange price

So improved CPU which most people do not car about, old design and not great
camera.

~~~
sq_
Most compelling thing versus similarly priced Android offerings from my point
of view is the guarantee of software support far into the future. Hardware is
roughly the same as the 11, so, based on Apple's past behavior, one can expect
that this will be supported for roughly as long as the 11 will.

I'm definitely not aware of many Android phones at this price point that one
can expect to get security updates, much less feature updates, 4-5 years into
the future.

~~~
hocuspocus
On Android, a much bigger part of the OS gets updated through the Play store
and Play services, you certainly do get access to new features 5 years into
the future.

~~~
simonh
That’s true, Play Services has proved a great way to get useful feature
updates out without being beholden to the carriers and manufacturers, but it
doesn’t really help much on the security side.

~~~
hocuspocus
It's not perfect and Google should definitely figure out a way to push low-
level security fixes, but it does help on the security side as well.

A lot of the attack surface (the Play store itself, messaging apps, browser,
system webview, ...) keeps getting updates for many years after the end of
system upgrades delivered by the OEM.

------
ksec
Not sure I agree. Despite $400 being the entry level price for new iPhone and
that is quite affordable and offers amazing performance. It is by no means
_commoditising_. In 2017 the ASP of Xiaomi Smartphone was barely over $100. In
the world of Smartphone that is inclusive of China and India, $400 is
considered as premium segment. Even if you took out China and India and only
look at Android, $400 is still considered as mainstream / premium.

And judging from Apple's past experience and strategy, they are unlikely to
lower the price any further. The iPhone SE was $399 in 2016, $399 in 2020, and
likely still be $399 in 2024.

The true commodity Smartphone segment still has a long way to go before
reaching iPhone SE quality. And unlike Cars which has comparatively minimal
advance, you can still use your car from 2000s, your 3G phone will likely not
be getting much bandwidth due to Spectrum reframing.

~~~
gruez
>Even if you took out China and India and only look at Android, $400 is still
considered as mainstream / premium.

But there are plenty of other developing countries other than china/india,
which means the number is still being dragged down. You'd need to get ASP for
android phones in US or western europe only.

~~~
ksec
For US specifically, $400 will likely still be considered Mainstream. Vast
Majority of the Phone sold in are through carriers, and prices are mostly
masked behind a monthly contract up to 30 months. So most of the phones are
actually $500+.

But there are a substantial and growing market of non-contract and prepaid
that are under $300.

I dont have Data from Western Europe, but in terms of iPhone usage it is
considered to be low compared to US, and they have official access to Chinese
Brands from Huawei, Xiaomi, BBK. Would not be surprised if the actual
distribution ( excluding tax ) would be even lower.

------
klmadfejno
I've gone from the old SE to the new SE. I like it. Feels fine for one hand
use. I think the debate about FaceID vs. TouchID is people exaggerating their
beliefs. I've got FaceID on a work phone, and have Touch ID now. On my old
one, the button broke so I just used the assistive touch virtual button and
input my 8+ digit code every time to unlock it. Didn't phase me at all after
an hour.

As someone who hasn't cared at all about any of the iphone tech advances of
the recent past, a relatively cheap phone with 64GB of space and a hand held
size is great.

~~~
untog
It feels ironic that at a time where I want to use contactless payment as much
as possible my Face ID has stopped working because I’m wearing a mask. I’d
take Touch ID back in a heartbeat!

~~~
techsupporter
> my Face ID has stopped working because I’m wearing a mask

I have started thinking pretty strongly about buying an SE (2020) and trading
back my 11 Pro Max based solely on Touch ID. I've missed having Touch ID for a
while but I like the much better screen and cameras on my 11...but considering
masks in public are very likely to be a thing in North America for a while,
it's worth my considering.

My hope is that Apple figures out how to do multiple faces on Face ID, like
fingerprints on Touch ID, so I can tell it "this is me" and "this is me with a
mask."

~~~
pmalynin
Settings -> Face ID —> Set Up an Alternative Appearance

~~~
sq_
Will this work reliably for teaching it to recognize you with a mask on? Seems
like using different masks or having some wrinkle in your mask would throw it
off.

Additionally, would it lower the amount of information the sensor can gather
to the point where someone else's face with a mask would trick it into
unlocking?

------
2OEH8eoCRo0
Computers used to exist in some far away place and take up a room. There were
very few in the world. Computers eventually shrunk and moved into the home-
occupying a desk in the house. Computers shrunk further into laptops, then to
tablets and mobile phones. The computers are now constantly pressed against
our skin. Soon we will wear them on our face. The implantation of computers
under our skin or inside our skulls has been a story happening in slow motion
over the course of 60 or so years. This is the inevitable conclusion.

~~~
spitfire
So I'm going to have to go to the apple store for major surgery every 12-24
months? No thanks.

Seriously though, we long ago reached the limits of audio and stopped
innovating there. We're close to that for 2d screen visuals (8K, full visible
colour spectrum, etc).

It is neat to think about what being able to reproduce media at the limits of
perception might be.

~~~
est31
We haven't reached the limits of audio yet. People still complain about noisy
neighbors, or roads or airports they live close to. They still have to wear
earphones.

One thing which I think might happen in the next 30 years is advanced cochlear
implants or maybe something that directly stimulates the auditory nerve, while
disabling the borne with hearing machinery. This sounds a bit cruel, but think
of it: running everything through a digital layer of noise filtering would
make so many things easier. Society wouldn't have to care how loud something
is. The people not opting for the technology will have a hard time enduring
all the noise...

The stapediuus regulation capacities are quite limited, and we already
constantly wear headphones.

~~~
bronzeage
the "analogous" physical structure of hearing serves many functions not
replicated by cochlear implant. Focusing on one signal during noise is in fact
much more difficult with an implant.

~~~
est31
Of course current implants are really bad compared to natural hearing, and
only implanted to people whose alternatives are even worse. The technology I'm
talking about doesn't exist yet.

I arrived at this view because humans are a visual species. Even if you can
build a digital camera that's as good as the eye or better (currently you
can't, at least not at the size of the eye), the task of processing the data
so that it can be used for nerve stimulation would be beyond any computers at
reasonable sizes. On the other hand, we can build really good microphones that
are more sensitive than human ears and can do a ton of processing that makes
such a device worthwhile.

The optic nerve has 770k-1.5M axons while the cochlear nerve has only 30k.
Over a magnitude of a difference.

So I believe that a augmented reality kind of experience with devices built
under your skin will be limited to ears first, simply because it's easier to
pull off technically. Everything else would still have to travel through your
pupils in some fashion. 2OEH8eoCRo0 was talking about technology under your
skin. Google glass, vr glasses, or even lcd screen contact lenses wouldn't
fall under that definition.

------
randyrand
Do internals actually matter when it comes to performance?

iphone 6s vs xs speed comparison is only about 5% slower in actual usage and
often is actually faster. Not very compelling.

[https://youtu.be/uN4JoIeRojg](https://youtu.be/uN4JoIeRojg)

[https://youtu.be/a1dWINdNGl8](https://youtu.be/a1dWINdNGl8)

[https://youtu.be/uN4JoIeRojg](https://youtu.be/uN4JoIeRojg)

~~~
gruez
>is only about 5% slower in actual usage and often is actually faster

Think about that for a second. The 6s has a slower cpu, gpu, disk, wifi than
the xs, yet it often performs _faster_? Maybe this means there's something
wrong with the benchmark. Does 6s some sort of secret sauce that they forgot
to add in the xs? Maybe there's something that they're not accounting for?
Maybe the 6s running with a hot cache and not the xs? Maybe the xs was
recently used and was hot?

Also, I don't get the popularity of this style of benchmarks. They're not
representative of _actual_ usage. Cold app launches account for maybe 1% of my
smartphone time.

~~~
randyrand
Some of those videos also do wifi website loading comparisons and the 6s is
about the same speed.

What do you spend time waiting for on your phone? I dont spend much time
waiting fo my phone on my SE daily driver, do you? App loading time is still
the most common thing I can think of. What else would you suggest they test?

~~~
gruez
>Some of those videos also do wifi website loading comparisons and the 6s is
about the same speed.

That's not surprising as 80% of the time the phone's waiting for the network,
so the benchmark basically turns into a latency/speed test and any performance
difference gets buried.

>What do you spend time waiting for on your phone? I dont spend much time
waiting fo my phone on my SE daily driver, do you? App loading time is still
the most common thing I can think of. What else would you suggest they test?

Maybe it isn't an area that we should be concerned about? I mean, you don't
see this type of benchmarks in laptop/desktop reviews. You might see it in SSD
reviews, but that's because there's literally nothing else to test in terms of
real life workloads. Of all the reasons to pick one phone over the other,
shaving 15s off each day isn't one of them.

------
clairity
it’s puzzling that the central reason for SE iphones to exist wasn’t spelled
out with respect to commoditization: apple shifted to a focus on services,
first with ipod and apple music, and now with everything else, apps,
files/backups, video, news, games, iot, AR/VR, etc.

the hardware is commoditized and sold at lower price points specifically so
that the addressable market for services is expanded and revenue can be
harvested from those offerings.

note that services and secondary devices are the parts of apple’s business
that’s driving its growth, not hardware.

~~~
snuxoll
Save $350 buying an iPhone SE instead of an iPhone 11, maybe get an Apple
Watch or iPad to go along with it with the money saved. Oh, now I have
multiple devices and Apple services are so convenient.

It’s a model only Apple can really pull off right now with their wide product
range, vertical integration of services, etc.

~~~
sq_
> Save $350 buying an iPhone SE instead of an iPhone 11, maybe get an Apple
> Watch or iPad to go along with it with the money saved.

I'm not sure this is what Apple's going for. What I've heard from family and
friends about the SE is that they'd buy it in order to save some money while
still getting modern hardware with long-term software support. I kind of doubt
that the market of people looking for a $400 phone are too interested in
spending another few hundred on an Apple Watch or an iPad.

------
gnicholas
> _putting its latest and greatest processor, camera, operating system (and
> almost its display) into a form factor that can sell for under $400_

The camera is not as good as the 11 or 11 Pro. Very good, yes — and even
better using third-party camera apps that let you bokeh non-faces. But still
not the latest and greatest.

------
627467
I get it: Apple placed their fastest SoC on a phone 1/3 of the price of their
other phone. And currently that seems to be faster than any android device...
But, what is the big deal? Chips always get faster/cheaper. "Pocket computers"
have been commoditized for many years now. iPhone is a fine device, but does
not seem any more revolutionary than anything else.

Plus, is it really a computer if you don't get to install and manipulate the
file system however you want?

------
swiftcoder
It's an interesting (if quite long overdue) strategic move on Apple's part, as
moving into the mid-range drastically increases their addressable market.
Their biggest rivals can afford to compete on specs in the high-end, but
likely don't have the vertical integration to do so at a $400 price point
(especially when Google captures most of the software ecosystem revenue via
the Play Store).

~~~
sharkjacobs
> Google captures most of the software ecosystem revenue via the Play Store

My impression is that the opposite is actually the case. Google has about 4x
the users but the App Store takes in almost twice as much revenue.

I don't have any good sources to cite, that's just my impression. The first
few google results for "ios vs android software revenue" seem to support it.

edit: maybe you meant Google captures the majority of Android software
revenue. I forgot there were alternative Android app stores.

~~~
nxc18
It’s worth highlighting that in the iOS ecosystem, Apple makes money on the
hardware, apps, and in-app-purchases, with few exceptions.

On Android, Google makes money on the apps, and some in-app-purchases, but the
OEM makes money on the device.

I think that, in addition to underlying architectural flaws, helps explain why
OEMs are so disinterested in supporting phones for more than 1-2 years. LG
only makes money when you upgrade, whereas Google and Apple make money every
time you buy an app. It’s in LG’s interest to sell you a $300 phone every two
years, whereas it may be in Apple’s interest to sell a $400 phone every 5
years and make up the difference on software and services, and hope enough
people are enticed by the new shiny to upgrade more often.

~~~
millstone
Hardly any OEMs makes money on Android devices.

[https://www.counterpointresearch.com/apple-continues-lead-
gl...](https://www.counterpointresearch.com/apple-continues-lead-global-
handset-industry-profit-share/)

~~~
nl
That's not what that report say.

Apple takes most of the profit in the sector, but the other companies are
profitable, at lower levels. Eg, even the low end Chinese manufactures:
_Chinese smartphone brands operate at low-profit margins, but better than in
previous years, even though they are expanding outside China and also
penetrating high-tier price bands._

------
mark_l_watson
I really like not having a Physical Home button on my iPhone 11 Pro. Going
back to a physical button and less possible screen size seems like a backward
move to me.

~~~
ezequiel-garzon
It’s market segmentation, they have to make it uglier. If Apple gave their
“affordable” model the same internals _and_ looks of their flagship, which
costs about three times as much, they would effectively kill their premium
line.

------
freepor
Got my SE on Friday and haven’t yet bothered to open it (upgrading from 6s).
In a way that’s evidence of how much of a “commodity” phones have become.

------
eatbitseveryday
Some folks here gripe about FaceID not working with a mask, TouchID not
working with gloves.

I wonder if Apple has given thought to something like VoiceID. You see this in
Star Trek when an officer gives an access code, and in many other sci-fi
shows.

Or, RetinaID which goes based on a scan of your eyeball.

Or even some combination of these in case one is obstructed.

------
lazylizard
I have been using a series of lg g5s for a while now. Its dual sim n the
battery is replaceable. And the screen can be easily replaced yourself (less
than 30usd on aliexpress). And years ago I'd stopped trying to run pc game
emulators on my phone so the spec is plenty enough..

~~~
e_proxus
Once I started using one normal and one eSIM on my iPhone I found the lack of
dual SIM slots a lot less annoying.

------
thewileyone
Using the same CPU as more expensive phones eases the supply chain and end-
user support, plain and simple. Now they don't have to support different CPUs
for different phones and make iOS backwards compatible.

------
dillonmckay
So, the Model 3 of smartphones?

------
technofiend
Apple has such a great lead with their processor line I can't help but wonder
if at some point Qualcomm will swallow their pride and hire the same engineer
who buffed AMD's and Apple's chips: Jim Keller.

------
darren0
Hmm... commoditization vs commodification?

------
corporateslave5
I think the iPhone se is a response to the economic downturn. Apple needs to
sell phones, this phone is too good of a deal. They normally wouldn’t release
a product like this.

Edit:

Dumbfounded that people don’t think the most valuable company in the world
doesn’t have a plan for economic downturns. This model reuses parts already
made. Somehow it’s coincidental it shows up right as the downturn does?

~~~
milkytron
I disagree. They've released an iPhone SE before, at the same price point. And
the development of this surely has been in the works for some time, likely
before the coronavirus took a hit to the economy.

The iPhone SE seems to be a way for Apple to make the most out of the existing
supply chains from older devices (same body as the iPhone 6S, 7, and 8 for the
most part). They did it for the previous SE (iPhone 4, 4s, 5, 5s models were
very similar). They just slap some updated components from the newer models
into it and it's a perfectly capable smartphone. It is also probably
relatively cheap for them to create an iPhone using older parts compared to
the R&D involved for entirely new devices and components.

It just so happened that the release of a budget iPhone coincided with a
global crisis impacting the economy.

~~~
NaOH
It’s also the same pricing strategy Apple did with the iPod, whereby they find
a point of entry by price they’re comfortable offering, then they go up from
there, presenting loads of increments. The latest iPhones—to say nothing of
old models still available nor refurbs—present these prices:

iPhone SE: $399/$449/$549

iPhone 11: $699/$749/$849

iPhone 11 Pro: $999/$1149/$1349

iPhone 11 Pro Max: $1099/$1249/$1449

That’s four models from $399–$1449 with 8 price points within that $1050
range. If a customer is set on some feature that’s at an undesirable price
with current models, prior generations of phones are there to offer
alternative compromises.

