
Microsoft deletes face recognition database - chwolfe
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48555149
======
0X3jdRielGJRHSU
(Throwaway due to my employment.)

Meanwhile this[0] was posted on some of the entrances to the common buildings
on Microsoft's campus for some time. They seemed to be training an algorithm
for "fairness" by taking video of employees that were entering via certain
doors. You could "opt out" by choosing another entrance though.

[0] [https://imgur.com/a/qYuelxD](https://imgur.com/a/qYuelxD)

~~~
metildaa
Silence is not consent, its a basic rule in the photography class I took.
Microsoft seems to be going by the legal minimums, getting a dataset skewed by
whoever is employed in that building (likely not terribly diverse).

------
klodolph
Same story, different actors: Company throws Machine Learning at a problem,
gets a good data set for training, uncovers horrifying implications (the data
set is racist, the tools enable abuses of power, the model is
incomprehensible, the tool is spreading anti-vax messages to sell more ads).

~~~
xvector
Meanwhile Amazon is rolling full-steam-ahead on developing facial recognition
technologies and making no exception to handing them out to countries with
track records for human rights abuses.

It's depressing how even when some companies are doing the right thing at
their own expense, others delve straight into unrestricted greed with no
regard for human lives.

~~~
fooey
We're leveraging Amazon facial recognition for a time tracking kiosk, and it's
scary creepy how good their technology has become.

We'd tried it a few years ago and it was too unreliable, but now it's
amazingly accurate.

~~~
dgzl
What's the deal with this time tracking kiosk?

~~~
fooey
"Kiosk mode" is an upcoming feature for our time tracking app
([https://busybusy.com](https://busybusy.com))

The elevator pitch is to make it so when the employee uses the device, the app
can recognize who they are, and depending on how the organization has
configured the app, either automatically clock them in or out, or just use the
facial recognition as an authentication factor

Our focus is on construction related companies (CAT Ventures is one of our
investors), where we've had demand for an old school feeling time clock
experience, but with modernized features. Our app right now is oriented around
each employee using a personal phone, but many job sites, especially with
heavy equipment, don't want people carrying personal phones around.

~~~
A2017U1
I would quit any job that implemented something like that. Having your day
logged down to second sounds horrendous.

~~~
skellera
You do know that most hourly jobs have you clock in and out either at a kiosk
or computer? This is just using facial recognition instead of a password to
clock in and out.

~~~
sverige
Why not time cards that are punched by a machine? The tech to scan them in for
payroll already exists, I'm sure. Reminds me of the push for replacing paper
ballots for no good reason.

~~~
bigmattystyles
Cheating is possible - others clocking in for you

~~~
reaperducer
_Cheating is possible - others clocking in for you_

Having someone else clock in for your isn't always cheating. For example,
leaving early so you can drop by the post office on your way home from work to
drop off the company mail.

Or the opposite where my wife works: People will punch in for her because she
has to go to an off-site meeting or event.

------
la_barba
Q: "Why is this database unavailable"

A: "Because we don't have anyone to maintain it"

News Media: "Microsoft deletes database".

Does anyone feel like today's news articles, are written by gossip/tabloid
writers?

~~~
simongr3dal
If making access to the database available was a priority, surely a company
with Microsoft's resources could find someone to maintain it?

And why shouldn't the database continue to work just because there isn't
someone to maintain it? It's not like the maintainer is actually hand-cranking
the generator that powers the database server.

And yeah there's definitely a trend with trying to make every news story look
like a big dramatic news event with lots of intrigue and "tea". Mostly it's
just pretty boring and undramatic stuff.

~~~
grogenaut
Some companies try to offer services that actually work. in general I don't
think a team should have less than seven people on it if they're on an on call
rotation and keeping a service alive without burning out the people involved.
And if you can't afford that for a service and you're not really doing the
right thing for the users of it.

Also if it's not being used why would you keep it up and running.

finally not sure why you're against someone getting rid of a facial
recognition database

------
reitanqild
> Last year Microsoft President Brad Smith asked the US Congress to take on
> the task of regulating the use of facial recognition systems because they
> had "broad societal ramifications and potential for abuse".

> More recently, Microsoft rejected a request from police in California to use
> its face-spotting systems in body cameras and cars.

Sounds like they are actually starting to get some principles and are standing
up for them.

------
codemac
I'm surprised at the title. Microsoft only said the database was "unavailable"
because someone left the company.

Are there any citations or press releases of Microsoft saying it was deleted?

~~~
dsfyu404ed
>Microsoft only said the database was "unavailable" because someone left the
company.

People champion pet projects all the time. At my company we joke that every
major website UI redesign is just another VP pissing on the web portal fire
hydrant.

Without a key person to pitch the value of this project's continued existence
it got killed.

Edit: If MS is anything like the BigCo I work at those servers are gonna be
wiped and re-imaged after a bunch of automated "these servers were owned by X
who has left the company, do you still need them?" emails are ignored by X's
boss.

~~~
reaperducer
Something similar happened at a billion dollar company where I worked.

I ran their web site. When my job got outsourced, I got exactly four minutes
notice before being shown the door. I was (and still am) the only one with the
password for the domain registrar. The people who own the company have too
much arrogance and pride to call me to ask for the password so they can give
it to the Indian company that replaced me, so after several weeks of the web
site not being updated with the current pricing (which changed almost daily),
they opened a new domain.

As of last month, my site still sits there as a time capsule with the old
pricing, employee bios, and everything from six years ago. I can understand
why the domain hasn't changed, because they paid for 10 years in advance. But
I don't know why they're still paying the hosting bill.

~~~
scarface74
What’s amazing about this is the short sightedness of the company. If they
just paid you a decent severance, I’m almost sure that you would have been
more than willing to help them.

~~~
reaperducer
_If they just paid you a decent severance, I’m almost sure that you would have
been more than willing to help them._

Nope. No severance. And as I mentioned, almost zero notice. Just "Turn in your
badge," and my immediate boss telling me that the project was already
outsourced a week earlier.

Something similar happened when I worked at a small town radio station in
Wisconsin. This was back when computers were just coming to small business,
and people set BIOS passwords and used those round keys to lock their
computers. When I got shown the door, nobody asked me for the password or the
key to my computer. They just said here's your last check, get out. I heard
from one of the DJ's a few weeks later that they ended up chucking out the
computer and buying a new one.

------
cbhl
"Database" seems like the wrong word for the headline. Did they delete the
training data (the photos and labels)? The models trained on the data? Both?
The article only appears to talk about the training set.

If they only deleted the training data, but not the ML models generated from
them, then you get the worst of both worlds (people still using the models to
do things, and no way to validate or improve the fairness of said models by
adding or removing labelled training data).

~~~
johnnycab
>Did they delete the training data (the photos and labels)? The models trained
on the data? Both?

It would be interesting to find out if that were the case, considering that it
forms the basis of Azure ML Ops (along with Pipelines), introduced at Build a
month ago, with an aim to track assets and create an 'end-to-end' audit trail.

[https://azure.microsoft.com/en-gb/blog/take-your-machine-
lea...](https://azure.microsoft.com/en-gb/blog/take-your-machine-learning-
models-to-production-with-new-mlops-capabilities/?cdn=disable)

------
deugtniet
I think this is Microsofts way to limit legal, but more importantly, public
image liability. These models can be used for bad stuff, like the profiling
thats happening in <insert unethical organization/government here> right now.
And Microsoft wants nothing to do with it.

------
sbr464
You can create an account trillionpairs and access the downloads. It's free
and instant.

It's the Asian subset, 4 files, about 300 Gigs.

[http://trillionpairs.deepglint.com/overview](http://trillionpairs.deepglint.com/overview)

addl info

[https://megapixels.cc/datasets/msceleb/](https://megapixels.cc/datasets/msceleb/)

------
asymptotically2
> but it added that it also included a lot of people who "must maintain an
> online presence for their professional lives".

Maybe some of the images in the database were scraped from LinkedIn or GitHub

------
lohszvu
Anyone have a bittorrent hash for the data set?

