
Sugar tax surprise in U.K. budget, but growth forecasts cut - neverminder
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35813973
======
nostromo
Funny how soda is targeted by politicians but sugary coffees are not.

I suspect it's a class issue: politicians see soda as something that poor,
obese people drink, but a white chocolate mocha is not.

~~~
maxerickson
I don't think politicians routinely target soda either.

Bloomberg targeted sugary drinks, there was no exception for Starbucks. What
soda banning events to you believe constitute this pattern?

~~~
DanBC
In England a lot of the talk of sugery drink tax has focused on sodas, with a
bit of Public Health[1] awareness raising about fruit juices, and some very
recent media attention on the ridiculous amounts of sugar in coffee drinks.

[1] The organisation Public Health.

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CM30
I have to be honest and wonder exactly how much a sugar tax would actually
affect here. I mean, as someone actually living in the UK, the issue (if there
is one) is that the prices for sugary drinks are literally at rock bottom; you
can get a cheap litre or so of lemonade for about 15 pence. Doubling that
price is pretty much going to be completely useless at actually making a
difference.

As for whether it's class focused... well, the other BBC article on the matter
says that only milk and pure fruit juices are exempt, along with the smallest
companies/producers:

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35824071](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35824071)

So it probably will hit the likes of Starbucks and Costa as much as the likes
of Coca Cola and Pepsi. Whether it makes a difference there... probably not.
It's like the bag charge, fairly useless to a lot of people.

As for the other taxes... some seem decent enough, though the tax cuts aimed
at higher earners is as ridiculous as ever.

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nemof
this really wasn't a surprise, but it sure gives the press a different
headline tomorrow than "another round of austerity" or "it's just not
working".

not to mention, and to my utter horror, all schools in England will be turned
into academies, and in doing so pass out of public hands into private
ownership. A naked landgrab. Fucking disgusting.

~~~
akhatri_aus
I'm a bit confused by this, who are the private owners after they're converted
to academies? There are surely so many schools to do this overnight..

~~~
johnzim
They are non-profit trusts established to provide high quality education
without needing to be beholden to a Local Education Authority.

~~~
akhatri_aus
I'm not sure that's so bad. I thought 'private' made it for profit, but there
are lots of Universities that are run under this type of structure.

Is anything wrong with it? I don't get it, they still get government funding &
don't need to get sponsors even though they can? The issue is that the assets
are transferred to these trusts and they don't follow the local education
authority..

~~~
nemof
this effectively privatises our schools and means that the local education
authority has no oversight - as far as i am concerned that's bloody insane.
being "beholden" to local authorities means we can see how finances are being
spent and have public accountability. you will not get that when there's no
obligation of the provider to do so.

if it were some product falling through that cracks, who the hell would care,
but that's some kids future.

~~~
akhatri_aus
I had a look at this a bit more thoroughly over the past day. It's certainly
not as bad as it's made out to be.

I spoke to a couple of brit teachers and they say it lets them use their own
teaching ideas & get more teachers (apparently no one wants to be a teacher).

So i'm guessing it can improve schools dramatically _as well as make them
worse_. It can improve them, though.

------
_delirium
Weird combination of tax hikes and cuts. I would guess this is more about
making the numbers in the budget add up by raising some revenue from
"alternative" tax sources, but who knows.

Taxes to be cut: top-rate capital gains, corporation tax, income tax for some
brackets

Taxes to be raised: tobacco duty, soda duty, tax on insurance

~~~
grokys
Not weird at all from where I stand: taxes cut to the rich, raised for the
poor. Standard policy for Mr Osbourne.

~~~
corin_
Yep. I'm as depressed as I expected to be by this budget. And I'm lucky enough
to fall into the "personally benefits from these policies" group, can only
imagine how much more I would fucking hate that man if his evil policies
directly affected me. Urgh.

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sanjiwatsuki
For those interested in how the sugar tax might affect things going forward,
the NBER did an early study on the effects of the sugar tax on Mexico [0].

[0]
[http://www.nber.org/papers/w21197.pdf](http://www.nber.org/papers/w21197.pdf)

~~~
SinomaSo
What's the TLDR?

~~~
sanjiwatsuki
For a soda tax to work and reduce consumption, the price for soda must rise.

The cost of the taxed drinks, indeed, sharply rose.

The cost of the other untaxed drinks that were caloric substitutes, like juice
or milk, did not go up. This suggests that people were not just substituting
soft drinks for other high calorie drinks.

Early results suggest that the tax may achieve its goal of weight loss, but it
is too early to tell.

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bcheung
Seems counterintuitive to tax something that you are subsidizing.

Start by getting rid of the subsidies and that will naturally raise the price.
Effectively it is the same thing but it is fairer and less administrative
hassle for the government.

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nly
Won't manufacturers largely just start augmenting their produce with a
plethora of sweeteners?

~~~
DanBC
Sugar has a much easier to measure impact on health - dental hygeine and
obesity.

The thing about British teeth? It's sort of true. Tooth extraction is a
leading cause of child hospitalisation. (Most common cause for children
between 5 and 9).

This tooth decay is mostly preventable.

[https://www.rcseng.ac.uk/news/sharp-increase-in-children-
adm...](https://www.rcseng.ac.uk/news/sharp-increase-in-children-admitted-to-
hospital-for-tooth-extraction-due-to-decay)

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-33498324](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-33498324)

> A report by the Royal College of Surgeons (RCS) published earlier this year
> showed tooth decay was the most common reason five to nine-year-olds were
> admitted to hospital.

> Approximately 46,500 children and young people under 19 were admitted to
> hospital with tooth decay in 2013-14, with 25,812 in the five to nine age
> group, a 14% increase since 2010-11.

[http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/feb/27/england-
hospi...](http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/feb/27/england-hospital-
treatment-children-severe-tooth-decay)

~~~
sghi
Yes, British teeth could be better but they're not actually as bad as people
think -
[http://www.bmj.com/content/351/bmj.h6543.long](http://www.bmj.com/content/351/bmj.h6543.long)
shows on average in the US kids are missing more teeth than in the UK, for
instance

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tn13
Tax to alter people's behavior ? That never ends well for anyone.

~~~
skyyler
I'm pretty sure that cigarette taxes have made more than a few people quit
smoking.

~~~
refurb
What percentage of the decline in smoking is due to taxes and how much to
health education?

~~~
tn13
Also add to it the compliance cost of various cigar related laws and problems
it has created for otherwise perfectly normal citizens who probably don't even
smoke.

Case in point is of Eric Garner[1] who got killed by NYC cops because they
thought he was selling loose cigarette. This is an extreme case that got media
attention but I am pretty sure NY cops harass people all the time for such
laws.

Everyone on HN probably agrees that marijuana ban has done more harm than
good. If total ban is 1 then increasing taxes is probably 0.5 where 0 is
totally unregulated. It is a step in wrong direction.

And in the form of principle I would argue that it is not government's job to
manipulate our opinions and values of life.

Almost everyone on HN agrees that Apple should not cave in under FBI pressure.
What if government increases tax on iPhones because they are encrypted ?

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Eric_Garner#Death](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Eric_Garner#Death)

