
Infectious Theory of Alzheimer's Disease Draws Fresh Interest - chriskanan
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/09/09/645629133/infectious-theory-of-alzheimers-disease-draws-fresh-interest
======
spraak
Another theory is that Alzheimer's is a vascular disease [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]
[6], i.e. atherosclerosis of the brain.

[1]
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12480752](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12480752)

[2]
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24489130](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24489130)

[3]
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23239205](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23239205)

[4]
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20695015](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20695015)

[5]
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15699381](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15699381)

[6]
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23204143](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23204143)

~~~
subcosmos
This would make sense. HerpesVirus has been shown to cause atherosclerosis as
well, in humans. The connection? Herpes binds to the APOE gene sitting on
cholesterol-carrying LDL particles ....

[https://medium.com/@InfinoMe/cholesterol-have-we-shot-the-
me...](https://medium.com/@InfinoMe/cholesterol-have-we-shot-the-
messenger-a3f5dfeba09)

I spent 3 years in one of the nations top alzheimers centers. It is still
shocking to me how some of the seasoned veteran professors in the field are
both unfamiliar with the 20 years of viral literature behind Alzheimers, but
that they also completely write it off as being unlikely. Curing alzheimers
starts with curing the old dogma pervasive in the field.

Incidentally, the time is now for young hackers to get into biomedicine. We
need you.

~~~
pvaldes
Sadly, the requisites to enter in biomedicine research are overhelming.

~~~
subcosmos
Nada - most hospitals really need computational help. If you come in and have
machine learning chops, you can do can even do better financially than most
bench biologists.

Starting your way in IT and working into a data science role is definitely
possible, regardless of credentials. It's all a matter of finding the right
lab and project.

------
reasonattlm
Microbial theories of Alzheimer's don't change the amyloid cascade hypothesis
picture - that the disease begins with high levels of amyloid aggregates, then
proceeds to high levels of tau aggregates enabled by the amyloid, and it is
the tau that causes the real harm. That persistent infections raise amyloid
production - because that amyloid is a feature of the innate immune system -
is a way to try to answer the question of why only some people have raised
levels of amyloid. If you can point to chronic infections that are present in
10% or 20% or 30% of the population (but not much more than that), such as
some herpesviruses, this sounds plausible.

The other problem is that there are people with high levels of of amyloid who
don't get Alzheimer's, so you need other factors as well. That may be obesity
/ metabolic dysfunction, hence the view of Alzheimer's informed by metabolic
syndrome, diabetes, insulin.

The further challenge is that chronic inflammation in immune aging is clearly
an important factor, as is vascular aging. A third of Alzheimer's patients
also have some degree of vascular dementia, and the decline in blood flow and
capillary networks are clearly significant in neurodegeneration considered as
a whole.

Another point to consider is that a competing hypothesis for the microbial
increase in amyloid levels is the progressive age-related failure of
cerebrospinal fluid drainage to remove buildup of aggregates as it does in
youth. This has just as compelling a set of supporting evidence at the present
time.

Alzheimer's is a condition with many significant contributing causes. The
amyloid cascade (with the various reasons as to why there might be more
amyloid), immune aging, vascular aging. All the causes may be real, and about
as important as one another. It is a condition that results from many discrete
items, most of which may have to be addressed to produce significant gains in
the patient population.

~~~
caycep
this is likely true.

I have always wondered why some folks w/ amyloidosis or cerebral amyloid
angiopathy don't show AD pathology or symptoms.

------
mabbo
Alzheimer's is the cruelest of illnesses and the loved ones of the victims
suffer as much as the victims. The allure of this theory, in my view, is that
if you could somehow turn this into a treatment, people would give you
whatever money you demanded for it. You want $200,000? We'll find it, somehow,
just make Mom remember who I am, please.

~~~
mariuolo
> The allure of this theory, in my view, is that if you could somehow turn
> this into a treatment, people would give you whatever money you demanded for
> it. You want $200,000? We'll find it, somehow, just make Mom remember who I
> am, please.

Experts please correct me if I'm wrong, but even if this theory were to be
proven true, how could it help anyone once the damage is done?

~~~
caycep
IT may be more like - give mom the ability to re-learn who I am. Once AD hits,
the memories are destroyed, so if things get restored, it may very well be a
new a different person. Albeit one with the ability to learn and retain
memories.

~~~
Izkata
_Is_ that something we actually know, that it's the storage area that's
damaged and not the retrieval pathways?

------
vajrabum
Cortexyme is starting a phase II trial for their drug COR388 soon which is a
targeted anti-microbial for a specific organism which they have identified as
Alzheimer's related and believe is the cause of Alzheimers. They should have
some results in the next year or so. See here for more info.

[https://www.cortexyme.com/news](https://www.cortexyme.com/news)

------
jesperlang
So, NPR _still_ doesn't link properly from the data protection choice page to
the plain text site...

Here is the plain text version:

[https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=645629133](https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=645629133)

------
eganist
Prior discussions _(not the same link)_ on HN, posted for reference because
they touch on the past research that was previously posted here:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17446016](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17446016)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17540512](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17540512)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17540094](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17540094)
(this is the parent link for the antiviral risk reduction study -- a good
read, comments and source article)

There's a decent amount of reading when scholar-googling:

[https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=hsv1+alzheimers](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=hsv1+alzheimers)

I can't find it now, but there's also a past HN discussion about a week prior
to the HSV/HHV causative study that points to the function of beta-amyloid as
potentially to tangle and disable Herpes in the brain, leading one to believe
that β-Amyloid overproduction and its associated side-effects may
_potentially_ be a trade for substantially longer life and a slower passing
versus a more immediate exit through e.g. encephalitis from an active
infection.

[https://www.cell.com/neuron/fulltext/S0896-6273(18)30526-9](https://www.cell.com/neuron/fulltext/S0896-6273\(18\)30526-9)
(study link)

There's also research pointing to sleep's function as helping clear out
plaques such as beta-amyloid.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16026655](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16026655)

Finally, there's at least a bit of research pointing to boosted susceptibility
of herpes viral infections when carrying ApoE4:

[https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=hsv1+apoe4](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=hsv1+apoe4)

The novel conclusion from all of this, which I suspect is being actively
investigated, is that there's a potentially complicated interplay of an
enhanced viral infection (HSV/HHV enabled by ApoE4) + evolutionary defense
going into overdrive (β-Amyloid) + sleep deprivation keeping the body from
clearing out the residue -> disease.

\---

I'm particularly motivated to track this research because of its prevalence in
my family background and because, from what I can tell, I've thus far managed
to avoid the environmental trigger-pull. I can already tell you I'll probably
go on (val)acyclovir lifetime if I'm ever diagnosed with any particular
strain, as it looks like active infection, with outbreaks, is what's likely to
act as the first domino to tip.

~~~
graeme
How would you know if you had HSV? My impression was that a lot of infections
are so mild that those with them don't realize they had it.

~~~
chimeracoder
> How would you know if you had HSV? My impression was that a lot of
> infections are so mild that those with them don't realize they had it.

That's true. There's a blood test you can do, though.

~~~
kurthr
My understanding is that the (old?) test is sensitive to both HSV1 (oral cold
sores) as well as HSV2 (genital) because their protein coats are similar... so
if you have cold sores you'll test positive even if you don't have HSV2. Of
course their effect on the brain could be similar... although more than 50% of
people have HSV1.

------
odyssey7
Crohn's is another inflammatory disease that has long been suspected by some
researchers to be infectious. The company RedHill Biopharma just showed that a
combination of generic antibiotics could be as effective as Humira, the
highest gross-selling drug in the world, at treating the condition.

[https://www.redhillbio.com/RedHill/Templates/showpage.asp?DB...](https://www.redhillbio.com/RedHill/Templates/showpage.asp?DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=178&FID=1384&PID=0&IID=8179)

I keep seeing news about severe impacts of chronic infections that we aren't
good at testing for, and aren't good at treating. Gut microbes that cause
cancer, only just recently deciding that HPV's cancer risk to men was
significant, and chronic Lyme disease are some examples.

This article cites the historic example of peptic ulcers, which the medical
community didn't believe were caused by an infection, until after Barry
Marshall infected himself with H. pylori in 1984, developed disease, and
treated himself for it with antibiotics. Marshall and his partner won a Nobel
Prize for this work.

------
nikkwong
Lots of information out there. I feel as though my mother who I love dearly
might be starting to experience the first stages of alzheimers. She's healthy,
but otherwise not doing anything to take care of the condition. Given the
current stage of research/etc, what could I do to best protect her? Should I
be pushing her towards certain docs or clinical studies? Any direction would
be appreciated. We live in Seattle.

~~~
flocial
Eat more curry is one.

[https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/909678/dementia-cure-
curcu...](https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/909678/dementia-cure-curcumin-
turmeric-stop-memory-loss-alzheimers-uk)

~~~
nikkwong
Thank you.

~~~
DoreenMichele
Curry is anti-inflammatory. There are studies on how the Mediterranean diet
helps protect against brain inflammation. They are usually about depression,
not Alzheimer's, and they typically claim that consumption of olive oil and
fresh fruits and veggies are big factors.

Those might provide clues for you to start your search.

When my dad had Alzheimer's, I think they also gave him a children's aspirin
(or possibly some other otc med) daily to help reduce his issues and help keep
him more manageable. That might be another thing you could look up.

I recall seeing a remark on HN about Bill Gates, Alzheimer's and walking,
though I can't find a citation. I recall someone saying something like "It
would be great to be able to tell my mom to walk more because Bill Gates said
so."

Walking is something I know to be hugely beneficial to various things. I would
absolutely look for research that connects walking and protection against
dementia if it were me.

Best.

~~~
nikkwong
Thank you, appreciate that a lot! My mom already eats pretty healthy and
exercises regularly, but I'll try to point her to specific foods. I am
somewhat surprised with all the research about that there's no prescription
drugs or similar items that may be beneficial.

~~~
DoreenMichele
"Life is chemistry"

"Let your food be your medicine"

I started with anti-inflammatory medication for my condition and inferred that
an anti-inflammatory diet might help me get off the drugs. It did.

I think an anti-inflammatory diet is a superior solution

Best.

------
mrfusion
So does this throw the type three diabetes theory out the window?

~~~
hwillis
Nothing is out the window- Alzheimers is still extremely mysterious. There are
fungal, infectious, prion, plaque, vascular, diabetes etc. etc. etc. Theories
that are all remarkably reasonable. The only thing thats really changed
recently is that the most recent frontrunning treatment, an amyloid-related
drug, didnt help.

