
Time Has No Meaning at the North Pole - bryanrasmussen
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/time-has-no-meaning-at-the-north-pole/
======
cozzyd
At the South Pole station, NZ time is used since it's supplied from McMurdo
(which is supplied from Christchurch). However the tourist camp a km away is
on Chile time since they are supplied from Union glacier and Punta Arenas. The
tourist camp people were nice enough to invite us on Christmas, even though
for them it was like 3 am when we visited.

~~~
mcbutterbunz
3 am to me means in the middle of the night while I'm sleeping. So I'm
curious, do people at the South Pole typically follow a similar sleep/wake
cycle despite the time zone they follow?

~~~
cozzyd
I think the staff at the tourist camp just tries to accommodate the tourists,
so I'd guess they'd mostly stay on Chile time, but I don't really know.

At the research station though a normal schedule is mostly followed, at least
for meals. Some people keep odd hours of course, and I think there are people
on night shift for certain things (e.g. meteo is always manned).

------
classified
I bet they still have Daylight Saving Time, so the bureaucrats get one last
win.

~~~
madcaptenor
Norway's Troll Station, in Antarctica, follows UTC (geographically accurate
for them) in the southern summer and UTC+2 in the southern winter (to
facilitate communication with Norway) - so they do daylight savings time, but
backwards! (Source:
[https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2014-March/020705.html](https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2014-March/020705.html))

------
saagarjha
> The ship is filled with 100 people from 20 countries, drifting at the mercy
> of the ice floe, farther from civilization than the International Space
> Station.

That probably depends on where the ISS is, doesn't it?

~~~
keiferski
Edit: Not sure what the orbital path of the ISS is. I suppose it would indeed
depend on where it is. The question would be: where in the path is more than
±417 KM away from a city.

//ignore Seems like the ISS is always closer. 400KM vs 817KM.

> The ISS maintains an orbit with an average altitude of 400 kilometres (250
> mi) by means of reboost manoeuvres using the engines of the Zvezda module or
> visiting spacecraft.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Space_Station](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Space_Station)

> Alert, in the Qikiqtaaluk Region, Nunavut, Canada, is the northernmost
> permanently inhabited place in the world, at latitude 82°30'05" north, 817
> kilometres (508 mi) from the North Pole.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alert,_Nunavut](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alert,_Nunavut)

~~~
KineticLensman
I always find it interesting that as I sit here on the south coast of England,
Glasgow in Scotland is significantly further away (approx 450 mi) than the ISS
when it orbits overhead. It's one of those details that shows that 'low Earth
orbit' really does mean 'low'.

~~~
GuB-42
It is really well illustrated here [https://what-
if.xkcd.com/58/](https://what-if.xkcd.com/58/)

~~~
KineticLensman
Yes, I have always loved this xkcd and even once sketched a version myself to
someone I was having a debate with.

------
ToFab123
IPhone users should try to ask Siri "What time zone is Antarctica in"

Edit: added screen shot
[https://imgur.com/a/xw8Z7qr](https://imgur.com/a/xw8Z7qr)

------
zokier
I do point out that polar night is not that absolute. Even when sun doesn't
rise above the horizon, there is still quite discernable day-night cycle from
twilight to midnight and back, especially if you are not exactly on the pole.

~~~
BurningFrog
Sunsets/-rises take much longer the closer to the poles you get, because the
sun moves "sideways" across the sky, not up/down.

So even when the sun is technically "set", it is often just under the horizon,
and lighting things up.

------
Legogris
Another edge-case highlighting the usefulness of global time; maybe a soft
rollout of UTC at the North Pole is a good start in wait for the rest of the
world to catch on?

~~~
flohofwoe
But what's the point of a global time when the sun rises and sets at different
times across the world anyway? Humans live by the 'sun clock', not by UTC. For
instance, to arrange a remote meeting you still need to check what time will
be convenient for the people around the world, and a global time doesn't make
that any easier (arguably even worse). Just because UTC makes sense for
machines doesn't mean it makes sense for humans. And machines should adjust to
humans, not the other way around.

~~~
JdeBP
Interestingly, you highlight an error in the article that gave me pause:

> _Coordinated Universal Time, which is based, ironically, on the position of
> the sun relative to Earth._

As you say, UTC is not a sun clock. It is based upon Atomic Time.

I also wondered who, knowing history, would consider the concept of December
_not_ to be fabricated. (-:

~~~
jhayward
> As you say, UTC is not a sun clock.

UTC is most definitely a sun clock. It is coordinated to correspond to within
1 second of mean solar time at 0º longitude.

~~~
jwandborg
If it was a sun clock it wouldn't have to be coordinated, it would just be.

~~~
Legogris
Not true, since it has leap days and leap seconds.

------
Jaruzel
One wonders, why don't they just use UTC ?

~~~
excalibur
The article mentions that many of their instruments do. Not sure why the
researchers don't follow suit, it would certainly make life easier. Perhaps
fiddling with time zones keeps them entertained.

~~~
Symbiote
The article hints at that.

It's to make coordination with people on land easier. If that's Russia, use
Moscow time.

------
GrumpyNl
They could use swatch time,
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time)

------
fractalb
A very nice article. It just made me observe that “there is no time when there
is no motion”

~~~
datacaviar
Can there be an impact on how organisms age in such places?

~~~
kranner
Hard to imagine how that could be the case, other than with messed up
circadian (and diurnal, etc) rhythms.

------
jonnypotty
The sun doesn't only rise and set once a year at the north Pole! Is this a
joke?

Edit: -3 for correct science. Good work HN

~~~
mcsb4
> The sun doesn't only rise and set once a year at the north Pole! Is this a
> joke?

> Edit: -3 for correct science. Good work HN

You have to explicitly say that you are a flat earther. Otherwise people on HN
assume standard science as source of knowledge.

If you are not a flat earther, you might consider watching this video while
closely observing the north pole:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLRA87TKXLM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLRA87TKXLM)

Also Stellarium is an outstanding piece of FOSS software, you can play with
your position, time of day and time of year. Please dont file a bug report
because the sun does only set once per year at the north pole. Stellarium is
not made for flat earthers.

~~~
nerdponx
How does that even make sense for a flat earther? Is their explanation for the
posted article is that it's part of some round earth propaganda machine?

