
Germany replaces US as country with best international image - ehllo
http://www.dw.com/en/germany-replaces-us-as-country-with-best-international-image/a-41407751
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philipps
German here, living in the US. For the first time in 20 years I am seriously
considering to move back. There are lots of things I do not like about
Germany, but there is a sense of buying into a social contract that I am
coming to appreciate more and more. I do not believe that the most knotty
problems can be solved by increasing individual freedoms or simply making
markets more efficient. They require some form of collective action and
solidarity, which seems hard to imagine happening in the current political
climate in the US.

[Edit] There is something quite surreal to see a discussion about Germany’s
positive image for people my age and above. I couldn’t have imagined this even
ten years ago.

~~~
libertyEQ
>They require some form of collective action and solidarity

This is perhaps easier with Germany's population of ~60M vs. the US population
of ~300M. I'm much more comfortable with something like this happening at the
state level because, for example, I have almost nothing in common with the
people of Alabama.

~~~
rainbowmverse
State populations are not monoliths. I live in exurban Atlanta. I have more in
common with someone in Atlanta than with my neighbors. There are people who
want Atlanta to break off from the rest of the state, and people further
downriver who don't appreciate that Metro Atlanta has so much control over
their water supply.

There's no amount of division that can neatly contain a group's interests.
Gerrymandered maps are an extreme example. 60m vs 300m is no more meaningful a
distinction than 500k (Atlanta) vs 6m (Atlanta MSA).

~~~
mercer
> There's no amount of division that can neatly contain a group's interests.
> Gerrymandered maps are an extreme example. 60m vs 300m is no more meaningful
> a distinction than 500k (Atlanta) vs 6m (Atlanta MSA).

While technically true, surely there's degrees of 'containing group
interests'?

I've been part of various groups with different sizes. Family > friends >
Christian denomination (Evangelical) > Class (highly educated but very
'middle-class'), Country (The Netherlands), etc. To me it seems obvious that
as the group gets larger, as well as more 'abstract', the group interest
becomes vaguer and broader and less cohesive.

While I don't agree that comparisons on a state-level are the right kind of
abstraction (perhaps more rural versus urban?), I do think that there's a huge
difference in 'contained group interests' on the level of something like 'The
Netherlands' versus 'The European Union' (the 'umemployed leeches' are at
least _my_ unemployed leeches, and not brown-skinned, etc.). And while I think
the USA cannot be directly compared to the EU, I do think the USA is more
similar to the EU than to one particular country within it. Or at least enough
so that it makes that comparison very shaky.

I often find it difficult to remember this, because from the perspective of a
Netflix-guzzling European the USA is a monoculture. But if the differences
within the relatively small and relatively (globally speaking) homogeneous
eurozone are any indication, the USA might be much less monocultural than it
appears.

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superplussed
As an American living in Berlin, it's a striking feeling to live in a well-run
country. It's not perfect of course, but the feeling that the system works
with you and for you (even as a foreigner) is a stark contradiction to the US.

~~~
jojoo
As a german who moved from berlin to the south of germany:

living in berlin feels like living in a failed bundesland. the public
transport is broken all the time, the bürgerämter are crowded, you can't
appointments, the administration is basically clueless, ...

i guess if you don't rely on public services it's not that bad, but still,
berlin is a very bad example for a functioning german place.

~~~
mpweiher
Public transport broken in Berlin "all the time"? Where, how?

The appointment system for the Bürgerämter is a bit of a disaster, but you can
go without an appointment, or get appointments further away, which you will
have no problem getting to due to the great public transport system.

Have you lived _outside_ of Germany at all?

~~~
hans_mueller
the Bürgerämter are an issue in all large German towns. Hamburg is a
catastrophe and Munich is also maxing out its capacity since mass immigration.

~~~
desitter
I have lived in both cities (currently Munich, previously Hamburg), and I
disagree with your description. The service has vastly improved over the last
10 years and recent interactions have been effective and fast. ‘Mass
immigration’ has had no impact.

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geff82
Interesting. As the most die-hard German USA-fanboy one could have imagined, I
can only say: since Trump, even I reconsidered my plan to move to Texas and
currently plan to just stay here in my hometown Frankfurt, as there are
currently no comparable options anywhere in the western world (maybe Canada,
but then again I prefer to stay in multi-national EU if the diversity and
sunny weather of the USA is currently not an option).

In those unstable times, we all feel the influx of money, ideas, people here.
Some don‘t like change, but to me it all feels quite good.

Anyway, still hope to spend some years in the USA when the time is right.

~~~
jgh
There are places in the EU with sunny weather though...certainly more so than
Canada! Spain, Italy, Greece, and the Balkans are all as far south as
California is. You guys have it pretty good in the EU when it comes to options
for living in sunny places. Maybe not as good as the US, but certainly a lot
better than I do here in Canada. Any time I want to go live somewhere sunny I
have to go through somebody else's immigration system!

(Can we please adopt Turks and Caicos already?)

~~~
Hello71
I think they are saying that Canada is too cold.

~~~
jgh
Could be, but I was just trying to say that if he's after sunny he's got
easier options than we Canadians do ;)

~~~
ant6n
Canada may be colder than Germany, but I believe it's more sunny.

~~~
jgh
He's an EU citizen, he can move to other places.

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wnm
Personal anecdote: When I was backpacking in Australia 10 years ago I felt I
had a clear advantage over other backpackers because germans somehow have this
image of being super productive and hard working. I more than once got a job
just because I was from Germany.

~~~
TomK32
As a fellow German I simply can't resist to correct you: it's "more than
once".

~~~
hardlianotion
As a pedant and a (half) Brit, I can't resist correcting your correction: "...
can't resist correcting you".

My apologies! But your actual correction is correct...

~~~
mynewtb
Aren't both correct but just a little different in meaning?

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NiklasMort
Honestly I am surprised to see the US even in the Top10, people usually have
nothing good to say about it for various reasons.

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k__
haha, often I think Germany isn't that good and I should move, but then I look
at other countries and have the feeling it only could get worse...

Warmer weather, but the economy is worse or the other way around.

~~~
thomasahle
There's an interesting correlation between latitude and gdp:
[https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-
qimg-2c35a5e9756ffb71801560...](https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-
qimg-2c35a5e9756ffb71801560f40afdbd42) It's not terribly strong though, and
there's probably not a very direct causation.

~~~
mediumdeviation
Historically, equatorial countries in Africa, South and South East Asia were
colonies. I think we can also assume each country weights equally on the
regression line, even though they vary greatly in population - this favors
latitudes with lots of small wealthy countries, which Europe is.

~~~
k__
On the other hand, I'd like to know how much the colder climate in the north
enabled people to colonialise the people in the south in the first place

~~~
caseymarquis
"Guns, Germs, and Steel" is probably the closest you'll get to that.

~~~
k__
That's what they used in the end, but what led them to have these things?

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theWatcher37
GJ&S’s primary argument is that whoever discovered (by accident!) agriculture
first made all the later stages inevitable.

~~~
int_19h
It's rather more complicated than that. Its primary argument is that certain
species of wild plants can be domesticated easier than others, and can be
pushed to more productive yields through cultivation (e.g. wheat, rice), while
others are more lacking (e.g. soghrum). Similarly, with animals, some regions
don't have any suitable wild ones that can be domesticated as beasts of burden
or food animals, others have some (e.g. pigs, alpacas), and still others
scored big time (sheep, cows, horses). Once discovered, of course, these
spread around, but it takes time, and is limited by climate and geographic
features.

So the theory goes that Middle East and East Asia basically were the lucky
ones to get that bootstrap, and other bordering regions (e.g. Europe) got it
from there; while Africa, Australia and the Americas were not so lucky, and by
the time they got all those things, they came on ships alongside some
technologically advanced and well-armed people who weren't exactly on a
humanitarian mission to spread the riches.

~~~
k__
A bit like the oil some countries have, right?

Most of them would already went down the drain without all that money.

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saas_co_de
"The Nation Brands Index (NBI) survey, carried out by German-based market
research firm GfK"

Not hating the general premise, since I personally feel that Germany and the
EU have taken the place of world leadership that the US previously occupied,
but still "Germany Marketing Company Declares Germany the Best Country" would
be a more accurate headline here.

~~~
mpweiher
Except that they've been running this for a while and Germany has tended to
not come out on top.

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kmfrk
I know this is such a Hacker News question, but is there a good place to gauge
what good places in Germany also have solid internet speeds (100/30)?

I’ve thought about moving there, too, but it’d be great to narrow the places
in Germany down geographically with some data like this, especially with what
I hear about the state of internet infrastructure there.

~~~
rorykoehler
You'll get that speed and more in any urbanised part of Germany. I had 100
symmetrical 6 years ago in Berlin. What makes you think the internet
infrastructure is bad?

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mto
Right, my move-to countries are similar but our neighbors don't come first for
me. More like Scotland/UK, Canada, Australia, Sweden, Germany, US. But perhaps
Germany is too similar to Austria so I don't really see any real advantages in
moving there, except slightly better job prospects, depending on the region.

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stesch
_Deutsche Welle (DW) is Germany’s international broadcaster._

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RickJWag
Congratulations to those countries moving up.

Congratulations also to Americans, who feel their country is moving in a
better direction.

May America be the best America it can be, and the same of Germany, Japan,
etc.

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Sylos
TL;DR: Trump.

The US fell from first to sixth place in their study, since last year.

~~~
dpweb
Its downplayed but the Tr7mp election which was possible even likely once he
got the nomination, was the complete implosion of the Republican party and
inability of any republican candidate except Trump to remotely connect to the
needs of the people.

Two issues particularly, immigration which yes plays to darker impulses, but
also represents law and order to the average conservative. And free trade,
endlessly flogged by so called conservatives and was increasingly exposed as
more shilling for powerful interests and more benefit to them than the average
american.

Even though they lost the election Dems had their shit together much more
compared to Republicans, and as much as we say we want disruption in
presideantial politics, we see what happens when one half of the system goes
completely limp.

~~~
amigoingtodie
Everything is binary, huh?

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partycoder
Germany makes greats products. I really enjoy using my
Eierschalensollbruchstellenverursacher (egg opener, or more literally, "egg
shell pre-determined breaking point causer"), very precise.

~~~
r3bl
In some parts of Europe, a product made in Germany is automatically a good
product.

In fact, when looking for household appliances, you'll notice local shops
using "originated from Germany" to promote some brands over the other.
Especially Telefunken products.

Same thing applies to cars, where the public separates them into two
categories: "German" and "shit".

~~~
mpweiher
> made in Germany is automatically a good product.

The irony being that "Made in Germany" was originally forced by the UK
government to distinguish "inferior" imports.

Didn't work out as planned...

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_Germany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_Germany)

~~~
rorykoehler
I feel there is some parallels with brexit here

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taksintikk
Diversity is Americas’ greatest strength and also its greatest weakness.

~~~
amigoingtodie
Are you meaning USA, or all of North and South America?

~~~
aaron-lebo
Context clues > pedantism.

~~~
amigoingtodie
Do you mean the apostrophe placement?

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benevol
And it has never been so ridiculously easy.

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limaoscarjuliet
In most of Europe, Germany has been seen as a solid, hard working nation for
many years. If I had to use one word: efficiency above all.

But recently, with Merkel's immigration policy (or ineptness?), the country is
being overrun with North Africa immigrants, who are a drag on rich social care
system, taking a lot out while not contributing their equal share back to it.

(Eastern Europe calls this process cultural enrichment, which is a clear
sarcasm.)

I'm wondering about contrast between "best international image" and the
perceived reality. Good marketing comes to mind.

~~~
ianbooker
That is not just plain wrong, but also far right propaganda. In fact, the
system needs these immigrants for the workforce in the long term. But that is
an argument far beyond the grasp of most people. SAD.

~~~
FeepingCreature
In the long term, automation makes these immigrants completely redundant
though.

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mtgx
In related news, Germany's government, just like the U.S. government, seems to
be _pro-coal_ \- so its image can't be _that much better_?

[https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/nov/16/politica...](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/nov/16/political-
watershed-as-19-countries-pledge-to-phase-out-coal)

~~~
shadowtree
Ah, the Guardian article is missing a pretty important bit of information.

Germany is getting out of nuclear, under pressure by its populations that is
heavily environmental. The irony being that to meet the electricity demand,
they need all other sources - one of them being coal.

Germany CAN’T get out of certain energy sources quickly as the Greens have
killed nuclear. Damned if you, damned if you don’t.

~~~
jacobush
They _are_ betting the barn on increasing renewable though.

