
Thanksgiving Got Shorter After the 2016 Election, Study Says - montrose
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/31/science/thanksgiving-political-views.html
======
TrainedMonkey
"The smartphone data included 21 billion “pings” of devices in November 2016,
each recording the location of a given smartphone at a specific time. It was
provided by SafeGraph, a company that collects location data and other
information from partners, including developers of mobile applications."

Well that is certainly interesting. This comes out to 70 pings for every
smartphone in November. I am assuming dataset they've got is limited to U.S.
only, there is a single cell phone per person, and there are 300 million
people in U.S. (both are minor underestimations).

Now I am wondering what other information is available for purchase and how it
is used.

~~~
clairity
i just happened to be at a salon at ucla a couple weeks ago where keith chen
spoke about this research. the data comes from about 30 million phones for
which they can reliably get the data, not every phone in the US.

------
rootusrootus
If true, then people are losing focus on what's important. Half of my family
is extremely conservative. Half is very liberal. We get along great at family
gatherings, because we just agreed that discussing politics is less important
than family relationships.

Maybe that will play out over the next couple years, now that the latest
political developments seem to have really stretched the boundaries. Perhaps
we will collectively decide it just isn't worth it to squabble. If we get
super lucky we will realize we are being played, and we'll join together and
turn on those who are driving the division.

~~~
assface
I have zero tolerance for racism. My family voted for Trump and they say
racist things. I don't need that in my life.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance)

~~~
btilly
It is a short step from being willing to dismiss opinions with a simple
"that's racist" to being unable to discuss reality. See
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16908414](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16908414)
for an example of a conversation that is hard to have when you dismiss other
people's views with "that's racist".

~~~
emodendroket
Not every idea deserves serious consideration.

~~~
Andre_Wanglin
Ideas are expressed by people. Does every person deserve serious
consideration?

~~~
Larrikin
Racists do not

~~~
btilly
That is your opinion, and you are free to it.

However at this point "racists" organized and wound up controlling Congress,
the Senate, the Presidency and the Supreme Court. The people that you'd like
to ignore are currently running the place. Ignoring them might not be the best
idea...

~~~
emodendroket
It's pretty unlikely that any dyed-in-the-wool Republican is going to hear
your rational argument and be so astonished at your doctrine that he changes
his mind.

~~~
btilly
Actually it is surprisingly likely..IF you're willing to do the hard work of
moral reframing to put it from their views and values. See
[https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/15/opinion/sunday/the-key-
to...](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/15/opinion/sunday/the-key-to-political-
persuasion.html) for more about that.

That said, few people of any political persuasion are able to engage in that
exercise.

~~~
emodendroket
I don't think this kind of exercise is that difficult, and I get plenty of
practice on HN talking to people who have very right-wing ideas about the
economy. But come on; it's not a way of working miracles. You might persuade
your uncle who loves Donald Trump to moderate a couple of positions; you
aren't going to turn him away from the Republican Party.

This is the main reason that election campaigns have moved on and focus much
more heavily on turning out their own supporters than persuading "undecided"
voters, who are a statistical nullity.

------
whack
One of the most important skills I learnt as a kid, from my family, is
learning how to disagree without taking it personally. My parents couldn't
possibly be more different from my sister and I. They also encouraged us to
have meaty discussions and debates, everyday at the dinner table. Over the
years, we've had some very passionate and spirited debates, but they were
entirely focused on the issues. Not the people behind the issue. We learnt how
to disagree violently, while still showing warmth and love for the person
behind the disagreement.

As a teenager, I thought this was the default in society. It was only after
leaving home and going to college, that I realized it was the opposite.
Whereas my family took disagreements as an opportunity for lively debate (and
a bit of fun in the process), too many people take disagreements as an insult
and a personal affront. One can only hope that this tide will swing back
around the other way.

------
wokky
Any study like this will have the interesting caveat that the presence of
smartphones at a formal, traditional family gathering might itself produce
effects. That is: maybe family gatherings are getting shorter because so many
people would rather play with their phones than listen to Uncle Joe's story
about high school football. Again.

How could a researcher using smartphone location data control for that?

~~~
emodendroket
Well, for one thing, smartphone penetration is tremendous, and for another,
all groups being compared have phones.

------
baccredited
No comparison to 2015 data? Maybe Thanksgiving always shorter for this group.

~~~
tlb
Also, presumably areas of different political affiliation are likely to be
farther apart, and people with a long drive home are likely to go home
earlier. Perhaps they've corrected for all that in the paper, but it's not out
yet.

------
to_bpr
This is pretty unfortunate if accurate given that the political "opinions"
causing the rift, on both sides, are likely held by people whose political
knowledge extends to roughly the start of the current election cycle and no
further.

And at the root of this division lies the mainstream media.

------
dumbfounder
Then researchers used that mobile tracking data to see who visited strip clubs
the Friday after Thanksgiving. They contacted those people to see how much
they would pay for them not to tell their wives about it. You know, for
science.

~~~
dang
Please don't do this here.

