

Ask HN: "Interesting" Job Contract - znt

This question comes from an unexperienced young hacker who is at the beginning of his professional career. Recently I had an interview with a local software firm and was offered a developer position. But there's a little quirk: The employer told me that the developers were entitled to half of their salaries and had to earn the other half by turning in coding assignments throughout the month. He made his point by saying "This way slackers and hardworkers get what they deserve, and it is possible for a hardworking developer to earn twice his salary".<p>Also there's another important condition in the job contract: If I sign it, I'll have to work for a year. If I ever try to leave the job before that I'll have to pay a compensation to the company for every month that I won't be working.<p>So here's the question: Is this a "normal" kind of contract that software firms generally offer? Or is this a sign of danger?<p>TL;DR:<p>Job offer with half normal salary, must earn the other half by creating code. Can't quit for a year when started. Is it a Trap?
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elbrodeur
Do not accept this offer. Do you really want to work with someone who A)
Doesn't trust you to work hard and B) Doesn't believe their work environment
or product is good/fun/exciting enough to keep you around for only one year?

We all have to start somewhere, but this sounds like a situation that will
leave you feeling deflated, powerless and bored.

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skowmunk
Based on your location (Turkey) this is what I would do if I were in your
shoes:

Rather than decide on yes or no based simply on the terms (which might appear
ridiculous to those in US), I would check the track record/references of the
company.

Do they use these terms to drive the programmers as slaves? or is it simply a
defensive strategy (in response to local job market/legal environment) meant
to ensure employee productivity and stability in the company?

Obviously its a no-no, if it is the former and an ok-yes if it is the latter.

\-----------------------------

Why I say this: (the long of it for those interested) (All these refer to
developing companies with high growth rates, high inflation, high competition
and low number of truly qualified professionals - this is the reality of their
job market/legal/economic environment)

Such contracts are often common in developing countries, where the turnover
rates are ridiculously high. ( how about employees jumping every 6 - 12 months
as sort of a norm among the non-mncs? - for a different reality)

Often, some employees join a company, complete training for a few months and
then jump to another company showcasing that training. And latter companies
often don't hold it against the employees for jumping so soon, because they
dont' have to spend time and money on getting that employee trained - this is
the nature of competition in those countries.

It is also a sort of protection for the company so that employees come in, get
to know their good ideas (if they are worth) then just jump to other companies
with those ideas or start their own companies based on them - the legal
protection against this is ridiculously low or non-existent in almost all
countries (even the democratic ones) except for those in NA/EU and Japan.

There is also this problem of prospective employees putting up fake
certifications and experience, and claiming higher salaries in many developing
countries. Systems to verify educational and occupational records of
prospective employees are almost non existent, if at all.

Fyi,I am not pointing fingers at the employees, they are also under tremendous
pressures to maintain a decent standard of living in environments subject to
very high inflation ( against the typical 1-2% in the US, how about around
10%? and those are the 'official' rates which are often watered down for the
international press). So they have to keep getting higher and higher salaries
to maintain the same standard of living. Often that job hopping is the best
way to ensure that increasing salary.

Either way, good luck.

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znt
Thanks for the informative response man. I had a bad feeling about the
contract when they explained the conditions. Later I read at a local message
board about someone else's experience's with the same firm and how he was
advised to not work for that firm by an inside developer. That is why I
started this thread and now I realise the direness of the situation I may get
myself into.

~~~
skowmunk
I guess you did your homework right!

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andrewtbham
This strikes me as very odd. I have worked places where you got a bonus...
that was contingent on performance or the company's performance. but i had a
decent base salary.

i also worked at one place as a consultant where you had to give "6 months
notice"... the spirit of the agreement was that you wouldn't work on a project
and quit near the deadline. however, the only penalty was refunding your last
bonus.

this deal seems pretty bad... unless the 1/2 the base salary is actual decent
and i thin there would need to be very clear criteria for getting more
money... it seems like that would be difficult.

the paying if you quit... that seems pretty crazy, how much would you have to
pay?

~~~
znt
Half of the base salary is about $650. Probably I'll have to pay at least that
much for every month short of contract period to the company if I quit.

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spooneybarger
I've never seen anything like that and would be very wary. You have no idea
what will happen during that year. It could turn out to be an awful place to
work that people are dying to get away from. It certainly doesn't sound like a
great shop. There are better ways to deal with slackers than not paying as
much as hard workers ( like not paying them at all, not hiring them to start
with, weeding them out as quickly as possible ).

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sgt
I've never heard of this. It could be a trap. Talk to others who are currently
working at the company, and who might have been working there for over a year.
Personally I wouldn't do that for a whole year, maybe 6 months though.

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_pius
Don't ever let someone play games with your compensation. You're a
professional.

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dpavlenkov
Please, can you share the name and location of this firm? Just curious,
hahaha.

~~~
znt
It's a Turkish firm which creates hospital automation systems. Actually they
just sell a basic program to all hospitals and tweak it a little bit for each
case. It's been in the market for 20 years but I doubt it has many loyal
developers.

~~~
dpavlenkov
If you can negotiate, then sign a contract that isn't a trap.

~~~
znt
Unfortunately, it's a standard contract. Only negotiation factor is the salary
and that is as high as it gets in my current situation.

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nolite
sounds like a wtf.. turn and don't look back

