
Aadhaar: Ushering in a Commercialized Era of Surveillance in India - bhuthesh_r
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/05/aadhaar-ushering-commercialized-era-surveillance-india
======
acdjuiamadfn
It took gas connection 6 months (or upto years) and now I get it in 3 fucking
hours. Same for license and what not.

Sure there are problems to be fixed but lets fix basic problems first

~~~
aangjie
Bro, just got aadhaar fingerprint auth rejected two days in a row. Don't think
i'll get it to work anytime soon. Local states' aadhaar auth rejection seems
to be 30% rejection rate. (For first 3 months of 2017).

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calvinbhai
Does the author mean, biometric details have been leaked? I think he last 3
paragraphs, it looks like she's kind of using the numbers leak (aadhar numbers
are not meant to be private, like SSN in the US) and the biometrics leak
interchangeably.

AFAIK, no biometric data has been leaked yet.

------
bdeorus
The whole purpose of the project was to provide means of identification of
people that didn't have any kind of document – passport, driving license, etc.

Identification of people is crucial in regions where some people receive
subsidies as ensures it reaches the right people.

It's a shame this platform is being potentially used to violate citizen's
privacy. Maybe a EU GDPR-esque regulation would balance the control on where
private information is used back to the citizen.

~~~
wtmt
> The whole purpose of the project was to provide means of identification of
> people that didn't have any kind of document – passport, driving license,
> etc.

That was just the guise under which it was launched. Aadhaar has been a poorly
thought out and poorly implemented solution that's still looking for problems.
Responses to RTI (Right to Information) queries have shown that 99.7% of
people who enrolled for Aadhaar did so using existing identification
documents. Only 0.3% enrolled without identity documents using the
"introducer" system. [1]

[1]: [http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/very-few-indians-
didn-t-...](http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/very-few-indians-didn-t-have-
id-proof-before-aadhaar/story-0v4U95UH57i0O0snYE1EeN.html)

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rajadigopula
Yet the irony is - The govt. will never dare to link it with voter
registration. And no one questions, as everyone knows why!

~~~
jiraaya
I hope they don't. Do you even realize what you are talking about! If they did
that, it is easy to conceive a system that can determine whom you voted for
(at a certain level of confidence). That kind of information can have
potentially harmful consequences for many.

~~~
rajadigopula
You don't need to link your vote to aadhaar. Vote can be anonymized, but
polling booths can still check and identify voters using aadhaar and easily
avoid duplicate votes & rigging.

~~~
srisa
If online verification is used, issues of no-connectivity/poor-
connectivity/latency can cause problems. Polling units are sent to remote
corners of the country.

Loading the polling unit with aadhar database can be one approach. Very few
know (relative to the number of personnel involved in the polling process), as
to which polling unit will go to which polling station. Trying to load
constituency specific database into polling unit will increase the surface
area of the people who have to know which unit goes where. Loading the aadhar
database of full constituency into polling units might not be technically
feasible.

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k_lander
Why don't they create a system like UIDAI Payments where you can generate
different aliases that all link to your actual aadhaar profile with permission
based access and access history features. Seems like an issue that can be
remedied with technology IMO.

~~~
k_lander
To clarify, instead of submitting his actual aadhar details, the user submits
a generated token that can be used by the information-requesting party to pull
details of the user from the aadhaar database. This transaction is logged and
the user gets to see the details of the party who requested it.

------
pushparajxa
This is on steps to provide Universal Basic Income on the long run. That which
requires ID & bank account for every person to deposit cash.

~~~
jitix
This is actually one of the long term plans. Like another comment said it's
very difficult to identify who's a citizen and who's not, so people are likely
to give up some privacy for getting other benefits. In fact most people
outside of the urban areas don't even give a f __k about privacy and are
merely looking forward to getting food for the next meal. So in India the
people 's priorities are very different than that in US/EU.

~~~
wtmt
Firstly, Aadhaar is for residents of India, not just citizens. Anyone who has
resided for more than half a year in the country can get it. Many places take
the Aadhaar number or just a photocopy/print of the image as proof and provide
other real identities. Even the passport office has started accepting Aadhaar,
which makes it easier for resident, non-citizens to get an Indian passport and
claim citizenship. This whole charade is going to hurt Indians of today and
future generations for a long time.

~~~
jitix
It can be obtained by "legal" residents, although I don't think legal
residents can get passports on the basis of their aadhar number. Aadhar
fundamentally solves the problem of illegal residents and nefarious foreign
agents getting valid credentials, but I do agree that there are a lot of
corner cases where they have been able to obtain one. Another issue is that
ration cards and subsidies accounts (including LPG subsidies in urban areas)
can be duplicated - meaning that one person can (and do) open multiple
accounts. Tying these to Aadhar will definitely reduce the abuse prevalent in
the system.

~~~
wtmt
> It can be obtained by "legal" residents, although I don't think legal
> residents can get passports on the basis of their aadhar number. Aadhar
> fundamentally solves the problem of illegal residents and nefarious foreign
> agents getting valid credentials...

Please see the documentation accepted for proof of date of birth [1] and proof
of address [2] to get an Indian passport. Both accept a valid Aadhaar number
that can be verified. And an Aadhaar number can be obtained through an
introducer without providing documents. Since the government has also claimed
that there are fake PAN cards, fake drivers licenses, etc., an Aadhaar number
can be obtained by providing those too. It's not as difficult to get a
passport and claim citizenship as you think. Aadhaar, in a convoluted way,
makes this a lot easier. It does not solve the problem in any way.

As for rations and subsidies, you can read the links tryprasannan has posted
or visit Rethink Aadhaar [3] to understand how these claims are erroneous and
how people are getting excluded.

[1]:
[http://passportindia.gov.in/AppOnlineProject/popuponline/Att...](http://passportindia.gov.in/AppOnlineProject/popuponline/AttachmentAdvisorSub?subDocID=7002&minorFlag=1)

[2]:
[http://passportindia.gov.in/AppOnlineProject/popuponline/Att...](http://passportindia.gov.in/AppOnlineProject/popuponline/AttachmentAdvisorSub?subDocID=7001&minorFlag=1)

[3]: [https://rethinkaadhaar.in/](https://rethinkaadhaar.in/)

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dhaneshnm
Indian left wing has been calling the current ruling party and the government
"Fascist"[1] for a while now. So there is quite a bit of fear mongering
regarding Adhar, as left suspects that govt. will eventually use this to crack
down on the dissenting voices. But for those who don't share that opinion,
this is part that needs attention, "The guidelines could have come earlier,
and given large data leaks in the past may also be redundant. Nevertheless, it
is reassuring to see practices for keeping information safe and the idea of
positive informed consent being reinforced for government departments."ie,
Though delayed, corrective measures are being taken.

1.[http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-
india/sita...](http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-
india/sitaram-yechury-bjp-government-fascist-authoritarian-modi-prakash-karat-
cpm-3033385/)

~~~
dragonsh
It's real and existential threat, given Indian govt is lousy when it comes to
data protection. Indeed all aadhaar data is floating in many corporations
especially the one supporting current govt. No laws on its misuse and govt
cannot be taken to court. Indeed by blaming and divisive politics current govt
is very capable to divert attention from real issue and blame left and calls
all those opposing it enemies.

~~~
ashwinm
You have no idea what you are talking about my biased friend.

~~~
wtmt
Please dispute points with explanations or counterpoints instead of
condescending dismissals. It looks like you are the one who does not have
enough information to counter GPs stated points.

------
thrawy67
From the article:

> However, unlike countries where similar schemes have been implemented,
> invasive bio-metric collection is being imposed as a condition for basic
> entitlements in India

Remember: India has a unique set of challenges to overcome if it has to
survive and prosper as a nation. It is surrounded by not-so-amenable neighbors
and with cross-border infiltration at a constant strategy used against India
("death by thousand cuts").[1]

And almost 20 million Bangladeshis have illegally crossed over from the
eastern border [2] [3] and (unfortunately, reportedly getting Aadhar cards
through whatever means, which defeats the purpose if it is true), for a
country of a billion odd people at risk with such high uncertainty profile -
the requirement to identify at least their own citizens vs the intruders/
offenders becomes a strategic and security action from the government
perspective.

I think we would be in wrong to compare the "right to privacy" in this
scenario to that of the more developed nations that are pretty much
geographically blessed/ isolated, population wise less dense, religiously
homogenous and technologically advanced as such that they can track covertly
vis-a-vis getting biometric details directly. In fact, the Supreme Court of
India has observed that [4] "Supreme Court asks if right to privacy is
absolute?"

[1] [https://www.pgurus.com/india-superpower-or-balkanized-war-
zo...](https://www.pgurus.com/india-superpower-or-balkanized-war-zone/) [2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_India#H...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_India#Higher_judiciary.27s_concerns_over_Bangaladeshi_illegal_immigrants)
[3] [http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Two-crore-
Banglades...](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Two-crore-Bangladeshi-
immigrants-illegally-staying-in-India-Centre-informs-Rajya-
Sabha/articleshow/55457903.cms) [4]
[http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/privacy-not-
absolute-s...](http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/privacy-not-absolute-
says-supreme-court/article19308529.ece)

~~~
kchoudhu
I keep hearing that 20 million number in every thread about Indian migration,
and I can never find anything to back it up.

~~~
thrawy67
Please refer to the ToI article I cited in the reference. This figure is not
pulled out of thin air, but neither it is 100% accurate.

From ToI article: "The government, __citing inputs available with it __, told
the Rajya Sabha on Wednesday that there were around 2 crore Bangladeshi
immigrants staying illegally in India.

If you were to believe the government estimates, you have to believe it. Even
if it's off by 50%, you still have 10 million of them.

P.S: In 2004 >> the estimate was 12 million, according to the article.

~~~
kchoudhu
Starting with 12MM[1] in 2004, what you are effectively suggesting is that 1
in 15 Bangladeshis has left India in the last decade[2]. Come on: outside of
Superpower 2030 memes, the grass isn't _that_ green in India, and I'd like to
think that the first million or Bangaldeshis crossing over would have sent
home word that migration wasn't actually worth it. Why go to India and be poor
in Calcutta when you can go to the Middle East and make (even factoring in
broker fees) 2-3 orders more money for your family?

I'm willing to acknowledge that there have been some cross border shenanigans
in the last fifty years, but the statistics trotted out by the Centre are
transparently politically motivated, i.e. lies. What is more, these are
_stupid_ lies, relying on completely irrational behavior of potential
migrants, who in my experience are some of the savviest agents in existence.

[1] 10 million of whom came over in 1971, making for an annual migration of
~50K between 1971 and 2004.

[2] By this measure, every family in Bangladesh would have someone who has
left for India in the last decade. This is...not true?

~~~
thrawy67
> what you are effectively suggesting is that 1 in 15 Bangladeshis has left
> India in the last decade

I am not suggesting anything. I am only answering to your questioning of the
source of the numbers.

As for the your other points, you can hold counter or conspiracy theories. I
was only answering to your source claim. You may want to repudiate this in
public domain if you feel GoI is mis-estimating or ToI is misreporting.

------
anilgulecha
The pro: There have been significant fiscal benefits - fake personas have been
completely eliminated in the welfare schemes that are aadhar linked, saving a
lot for the taxpayers.

The con: Government has all your biometrics, and can technically mine data
from connected services to build a very detailed profile of you
(hypothetically).

IMO, both sides have valid points, and so it ends up being about which side
the ruling government wants to fall towards.

~~~
tryprasannan
Most (all?) savings claims by govt are at best projected numbers. For those
interested in an analysis of the savings claim and some of the other myths
propagated by govt, see the 3 part analysis by Anand
([https://twitter.com/iam_anandv](https://twitter.com/iam_anandv)) linked
below

Part 1 - [https://www.medianama.com/2017/04/223-nandan-nilekani-
aadhaa...](https://www.medianama.com/2017/04/223-nandan-nilekani-aadhaar/)

Part 2 - [http://www.medianama.com/2017/04/223-aadhaar-nandan-
nilekani...](http://www.medianama.com/2017/04/223-aadhaar-nandan-nilekani/)

Part 3 - [https://www.medianama.com/2017/06/223-aadhaar-lpg-
scheme/](https://www.medianama.com/2017/06/223-aadhaar-lpg-scheme/)

