
Anduril, a startup from Oculus founder Palmer Luckey, now valued at $1B - specifications
https://www.bizjournals.com/losangeles/news/2019/09/11/anduril-a-startup-from-oculus-founder-palmerluckey.html
======
atonse
Yuck. It's like the perfect marriage of taking any remaining humanity out of
law enforcement and add tons of bottomless greed to it. It's so very Peter
Thiel-ish.

I'd love to say I wish them well, but I hope this company goes out of business
due to a public outrage. But they'll always find someone to sell to, like
authoritarian governments, and make money hand-over-fist.

~~~
zootam
>It's so very Peter Thiel-ish.

soon, all of the United State's defense companies will be named after stuff
from Lord of the Rings

~~~
cpeterso
Reference: Andúril is the name of Aragorn's sword from Lord of the Rings.
Stephen Colbert owns one of the prop swords from the films.

[https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/And%C3%BAril](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/And%C3%BAril)

------
vlucas
There was a really great podcast where Palmer was interviewed about this
company and why he chose to focus on it:

The Human Code - Anduril Industries & Oculus VR Founder Palmer Luckey (69
MINS)

[https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/turner-podcast-
network/the-...](https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/turner-podcast-network/the-
human-code-with-laurie-segall/e/58088888)

It might help shed some light on the "why" that many people here seem to be
asking here in the comments.

~~~
paulcnichols
This is indeed a really great podcast. I'm sympathetic to his points that 1)
the US is falling behind and 2) that in a strong democracy policy plays a big
role in shaping the technology.

~~~
ddnb
Is the US regarded as a "strong democracy"? Surely some can argue just how
strong, especially with the effective 2-party system. It gets repeated a lot,
the US being the greatest democracy and all, but that doesn't make it true per
se.

~~~
m12k
Yeah, between the entrenched 2-party system, Citizen's United, gerrymandering,
voter suppression (voter-ID laws, the war-on-drugs combined with felons not
being eligible to vote, etc.), the politization of the supreme court and the
complete dysfunction of Congress, I'd classify the US as a 'failing'
democracy. Not 'failed' mind, you but well on its way. I'd put it about 2-3
democratic dysfunctions behind Turkey and 4-6 behind Russia.

------
karlp
Say "Orwellian security company"

"Virtual Wall" is not the only thing they do.

~~~
dang
The submitted title ("Palmer Luckey's new startup, a virtual US/Mexico wall,
valued $1B by A16Z") broke the site guidelines, which ask: " _Please use the
original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don 't editorialize._"
We've reverted it to the original now.

Submitters: Rewriting titles has a massive effect on discussion, so please
don't do that unless the original title is misleading or linkbait.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

~~~
mrguyorama
>misleading or linkbait

Those are massively subjective concepts, especially in the modern political
climate. Have you considered adding examples or further discussing this point
in the guidelines?

~~~
dmix
It should be pretty obvious to anyone using the internet for long to identify
what's flamebait.

If you need examples just look at the political sections of Twitter and Reddit
where all sense of civility and intellectual debate has been abandoned. Or
look at the headlines of clickbait news sites like Buzzfeed and Vice which
target that demographic and do the opposite. There's no shortage of examples
kicking around.

~~~
mindcandy
It should be for a lot of people. But, for more than enough people, it’s not.
And, even if it is obvious, the drama it promotes even among the knowledgable
is a big negative I’d prefer to avoid on HN.

~~~
dmix
Well dang is an expert in it by now and I 100% trust him to make the right
choices. Not everyone has to 'get' it and if there was any serious problems
they'd bubble up.

------
JDulin
Awesome!

Anduril is one of the few startups today I believe is solving a core problem
in the United States' institutions - Defense industry dysfunction. It costs
American taxpayers billions of dollars on weapons that under-perform at best
and endanger American lives at worst.

Palmer correctly identifies some of the incentive issues with current defense
contracts. Rather than working on contracts pre-defined by the DoD, which puts
the US Treasury on the line for all cost over-runs and entangles project
planning in Pentagon political intrigue, Anduril R&Ds technologies on their
own dime, to their own specs, before trying to make a sale. High-risk, but one
way to do it right today. He explains his vision more in this interview:
[https://twitter.com/micsolana/status/1087803794266550272](https://twitter.com/micsolana/status/1087803794266550272)

~~~
auslander
> core problem in the United States' institutions - Defense industry
> dysfunction.

Not Super PACs? "they can raise funds from individuals, corporations, unions,
and other groups without any legal limit on donation size."
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_action_committee](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_action_committee)

~~~
JDulin
> _a_ core problem in the United States' institutions - Defense industry
> dysfunction.

You missed a word.

But to answer your specific suggestion for No. 1: No, I don't think Super PACs
are near the Top 10 issues facing the United States' institutions. They might
be in the Top 100.

------
dpflan
“I felt like there were not nearly enough high-tech companies working on
defense problems in a way that was more similar to the Silicon Valley model of
innovation rather than a traditional defense contract.” (Luckey)

Is this true (not enough companies applying "SV innovation model" to "defense
problems")?

~~~
consumer451
A bit of a tangent, but how is the US/Mexico border a "defense" issue? The
Mexican military is not planning an invasion. I am unaware of any Latin
American terrorist groups threatening the USA.

I am not trying to be pedantic here, but words are important. If the US/Mexico
border is a defense issue, then it should be entirely militarized?

Andruil would be most accurately described as a surveillance company, would it
not?

~~~
commandlinefan
> how is the US/Mexico border a "defense" issue?

Well, whether you agree with it or not, part of the justification is that if
anybody can cross easily, terrorist groups will, too. IIRC, the 9/11 hijackers
didn’t fly into the US since we were looking for them, they flew into Canada
and crossed the border (although Canada’s not Mexico, of course…)

~~~
hbosch
> Well, whether you agree with it or not, part of the justification is that if
> anybody can cross easily, terrorist groups will, too.

You don't hear a lot about the big wall we need across the Canadian border.

~~~
commandlinefan
That might be because it’s way bigger than the wall we would need on the
southern border or because more people cross from the south than from the
north or because they actually are using border security as an excuse to keep
out Mexicans - but keeping terrorists out is (one of) the justifications for
classifying border security as a national security and therefore military
issue.

------
the_watcher
> Although Luckey left Oculus in 2017 amid controversy over his political
> contributions, he has maintained some links to Facebook Inc. (NASDAQ: FB),
> which bought Oculus for $2 billion in 2014. Marc Andreessen, co-founder of
> Andreessen Horowitz, sits on Facebook’s board alongside Peter Thiel, whose
> Founders Fund previously invested in Anduril. Andreessen Horowitz also
> invested in Oculus, which makes virtual reality headsets.

This sentence is _really_ stretching for "maintained links to Facebook".

------
sjg007
This is probably how the wall should be built for the most part. It allows
wildlife to freely roam but then uses AI to identify specific threats. This
will probably save a lot of lives too. Then Trump can have his wall and we can
all laugh that it is invisible but it will hopefully be effective for border
security and environmentally friendly.

~~~
Barrin92
>It allows wildlife to freely roam

well good to know that the wildlife is going to have more privileges than the
people. Truly a humanitarian technology company. We sure do live in
interesting times.

~~~
sjg007
I mean this is if we "have" to have a wall.

------
cr0sh
It's hearing things like this that make me regret having supported Luckey on
his Kickstarter. I had followed him for a few years on the MTBS3D forum when
he was experimenting with various HMD prototypes (usually modding the heck out
of the Forte VFX-1). He just seemed like a kid with a dream, and the will and
ability to make it happen - and potentially revive VR for "Round 2".

I suppose he did do that, and while I didn't like the "sell-out" to FB and
Zuck - I couldn't blame him, either. Then it seemed like things went downhill
from there.

I don't have any problem with someone being a republican or a conservative,
but I can't and couldn't understand why someone would support a person like
our current POTUS. To me, it would be similar to continue to voice support for
Manson while saying "well, it isn't like he killed anybody himself, so it's
ok" \- umm, no - it's not ok.

...and now this.

I sometimes wonder if we humans will ever get over this artificial border
fetish we have. I don't have problems with property rights, to a certain
level, but I'm not sure it has really worked well at the large scale level.
All it has seemed to do is create some level of tension at best, and outright
violence at worst. I am not certain that we as a species can continue on this
path for much longer, not without some very terrible things occuring.

So - while I would prefer a "monitored solution" to border control over
physical imposing measures, my real preference would be for us to all work
toward eliminating these national-level borders completely. Instead, it seems
like we're going the opposite direction, even online, and erecting virtual
barriers to separate us from each other, instead of working to understand each
other and work together on solving our world problems.

~~~
prepend
I applaud your honesty in expressing a desire for open borders. I think
culture would benefit from more open and honest discussions on this topic as
all the double speak makes it frustrating and boring to discuss, normally.

I’m not really very interested in borders one way or the other but national
borders certainly aren’t “artificial.” There are certainly some artificial
aspects (lines of longtitude, etc) but borders are also created by geography
and culture and saying that culture is artificial is odd to me. There are
distinct peoples with different values. We also have lots in common as humans,
but the border of France and Germany, for example, is very real and those
countries have different cultures.

I think the EU is a good example of improved relations between countries but
it’s certainly fine and not some sort of mental disorder to think that
Switzerland and Italy are different and it’s fine that they are different.

If nations want to have distinct boundaries and populations then there should
be an avenue to respect human rights and not resort to racism and undue
nationalism. It’s also a good time to point out that immigration has been
essential for major countries and is a very powerful positive force.

~~~
woah
You're mistaken about borders being some kind of fact of human nature, and
you're mistaken about different countries having some kind of fundamental
"different cultures".

Nation states are an invention of the last few hundred years. Before that,
kingdoms had borders between the lands they controlled militarily, and while
they would certainly stop an invading army, they didn't have the
administrative capacity or desire to stop small scale migration of
individuals.

Historically, the culture and language of people living on the Baltic in what
is now Germany would certainly differ greatly from the language and culture of
people living on the Mediterranean in what is now France. But there was not
some magic dividing line between those 2 points, between "the French" and "the
Germans". People living around what is now the border of France and Germany
would have had a very similar culture and spoken a very similar language.

In the last few hundred years, with the help of such technologies as the
telegraph, the railroad, and the radio, nation-building rulers enforced
speaking of the Parisian dialect in what is now France, and the Bavarian
dialect in what is now Germany. They also created a lot of propaganda and
myths about their "national culture" and invented far-fetched stories about
the greatness of their national ancestors. In Germany's case, this went way
too far and had disastrous results. The French national myths were much more
benign, mostly centering around arrogance about cheese.

~~~
i_am_nomad
I’m always amused when people dismiss something because it is merely “an
invention of the past few hundred years.”

~~~
eeZah7Ux
People often want to believe that modern social structures are based on human
nature. That's sad rather than amusing.

------
hart_russell
Good. I like my borders like I like the safety of my home: secure.

------
Rebelgecko
For various reasons, I'm slightly sketched out by pretty much every company
I've heard of that is named after something from Lord of the Rings. Even when
I don't think they're contributing to a dystopian surveillance state (à la
Palantir and this one), you have the other HN front-page story about Mithril
Capital being accused of mismanaging investor funds.

Is there some weird self-selection that causes only certain types of people to
name their companies that way?

Edit: I was looking for a list of companies named after LOTR and apparently
the link that connects all of them is that they're owned or heavily invested
in by Peter Thiel.

~~~
synaesthesisx
I've been considering Gollum Capital as a name for a VC fund. You have to
admit it has a nice ring to it...

~~~
omarchowdhury
Definitely sounds like a place that would put my precious funds to good use.

------
ganitarashid
What is wrong with enforcing border security laws? Curious why you think less
of him for supporting those efforts.

~~~
elbasti
In principle, nothing. In practice, _current_ policy at the southern US border
is directly responsible for acts which are unconscionably cruel and inhumane.

Separating children, babies and toddlers from their parents. Keeping children
in bed-less, 24/7 lit rooms. Not giving sanitary pads to menstruating girls,
etc. The list of atrocities is growing, depressing and unforgivable.
Apprehended migrants are treated in ways that most humans would consider too
cruel for dogs.

It is because of these policies that enforcing border security is immoral.
Because of these policies, any increase in enforcement has a direct, causal,
traceable and immediate consequence of increasing human suffering.

"Law and order vs chaos" is a false dichotomy. There can be peaceful
lawlessness and cruel law and everything in between.

Anduril, anyone working there, and anyone backing them, will now be directly
responsible for an increase in human suffering. I will never pitch A16Z again.

~~~
Erlich_Bachman
By that logic, doesn't someone also support "unhumane practices" if they do
any kind of work or subcontract to US government? If you group everything
together, then anyone supporting US is "directly responsible for an increase
in human suffering". Does that really look like sound logic to you?

~~~
elbasti
Of course not. I don't think there's anything in my comment that would suggest
that.

My comment was explicitly about: inhumane acts done to apprehended migrants
and building technology to apprehend more migrants. Those seem very connected.

~~~
Erlich_Bachman
Does the manufacturer of cars that they provide for the border patrol
contribute to the "increase of suffering"? This technology is directly related
to apprehending more migrants, in fact those cars are used on the ground to do
that exact thing. Some of those cars are used to separate children from
families by driving them away. To clarify, my point is if you see such
technology as directly related, then cars would also be directly related?

~~~
elbasti
Yes. Selling cars to the border patrol is, in this formulation, unethical.

------
PeterCorless
How much of that money is going to go to back to help feed poor kids and
communities recovering in war-torn Gondor? HUNH?

------
steveloco1999
Wait until I launch Gimli you fools, it will be even better.

------
cm2012
Love these Lord of the Rings names.

------
auslander
> towers with cameras and infrared sensors that use artificial intelligence to
> track movement.

No automatic gun turrets and autonomous drones? Phew!

~~~
auslander
Liberals and downvoters are designated primary targets. Weapons free, my
friends, weapons free.

------
patientplatypus
Think of all the marketing opportunities there are in this sort of evil. It's
so positively lucrative.

You could televise drone camera footage and have bets on which drones shoot
the most fleeing brown people. You could have an e-sports league, but instead
of playing Star Craft you could have nationally recognized "players" manning
the drones. People would fill stadiums!

You could even, with a little thought on the tech stack, have machine gun
turrets that the public could operate for $20 for 20 minutes. Hell they could
do it through the internet from the comfort of their bunker. So long as the
turrets were pointed south there wouldn't be any risk of any of the
"important" people being killed.

Truly this is a visionary whose time has come.

~~~
auslander
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Purge](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Purge)

------
notus
Did we create a super-villain by ostracizing him for supporting Trump?

~~~
gotoeleven
Maybe this is too off topic for HN, but I'm genuinely curious what is the best
argument for why it is bad/racist to enforce immigration laws? I've heard
people argue that a wall won't be effective. But some people seem to have the
view that immigration laws shouldn't be enforced at all and we should allow
people to use whatever loopholes (refugee status, traveling w/ children) there
are to get in and then not show up for their court hearing. Im genuinely
puzzled that this is so controversial.

~~~
jobigoud
I'll bite because I'm ambivalent about immigration laws. Why should people
that just happen to be born in a third world country live a shitty life with
no way out? You can't just say they have to do a revolution in their own
country, not everyone is interested in activism, why should this be the fight
of their life instead of stuff they actually want to do? You were born in a
nice place by sheer luck. It's unfair.

I like the idea of a fundamental human right to "mobility". In the grand
scheme of things a human being should be able to move anywhere as long as they
obey local laws, pay local taxes, etc.

~~~
4bpp
The standard counterargument is that not allowing mobility is what enabled us
to have any nice places to begin with, in an "ant and grasshopper" way.
Building a "nice" and affluent country is generally a multigenerational
project involving plenty of individual sacrifice for the sake of a future that
the sacrificing individuals will rarely themselves experience. If Norwegians
knew that they all could move to any country they choose at their pleasure at
all times, why would they save their oil money in a sovereign wealth fund
instead of quitting work, blowing it all on blackjack and hookers right now,
then taking out the greatest national credit line their country can secure to
buy some more blackjack and hookers, and relocate a few 100km into Sweden once
it's all used up? Knowing that the Norwegians would be thinking along those
lines, what would stop the Swedes from racing to beat them onto the blackjack-
and-hookers train?

Now, in reality, Norwegians and Swedes are sufficiently similar and familiar
with each other that they probably would be able to predict the other's
actions and jointly avoid racing to the bottom, but could you say this about,
say, Germans and Egyptians, for more complex downward spirals than "burn
through our assets faster than the others get to"? Add to it that the short-
sighted policies that actually make the difference between successful and
failed countries rarely are so straightforwardly bad as buying blackjack and
hookers: more commonly, we'll be talking about economic experiments,
corruption and kickbacks for interest groups, and really a handful of policies
where we still can't confidently say if they were actually good for a given
polity in the long run (space programmes, social programmes , infrastructure
megaprojects...), but have to rely on history to naturally select for
political processes that crystallise better instincts for their selection.

In less abstract terms, I think that especially many right-leaning Americans
feel that Latin-American socialism gets close to being an instance of
"blackjack and hookers" in the sense of the above metaphor, and in the same
vein Germans feel that Levantine... sectarianism?... does. (As in, sitting
down and negotiating a sustainable peace with people from other ethnic groups
who might be heretics and devil-worshippers is the hardship-and-sacrifice
option, whereas using any momentary advantage to enrich your friends and blow
up infidels is short-term fun.)

~~~
sgpl
This counterargument conveniently ignores the history of 'European
colonization of America from the early 16th century until the incorporation of
the colonies into the United States of America [0]'.

I'm not the most well-versed on these topic (colonization / mobility) but it
would seem that that mobility is what helped shape America into what it is
today rather than "not allowing mobility".

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonial_history_of_the_United...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonial_history_of_the_United_States)

~~~
gotoeleven
I think you two both agree, actually. How did colonization work out for the
indians?

------
thrax
Nice. I hate it.

------
kgraves
Interesting, why would Andreessen Horowitz fund evil, well I guess this is a
perfect fit for why I detest venture capitalists.

~~~
pstuart
> Interesting, why would Andreessen Horowitz fund evil

It's tech. It could make lots of money. Evil is relative (/s).

------
atemerev
So basically a laser tripwire? Like for Roombas?

------
cityzen
I find it ironic that Andreessen tweeted this yesterday:

"If you’re on the right side of the issue, just keep driving until you hear
glass breaking. Don’t quit." —T. Boone Pickens, founder of Mesa Petroleum, RIP

