
Bring Back the SE - abhi3
https://avc.com/2019/09/bring-back-the-se/
======
jeffkeen
Seriously. This giant phone trend is nonsense. Nonsense! I'm a 6'5" man with
large hands who still swears by an SE, despite being mocked by friends and
strangers whenever I pull out my "tiny phone". I had a 6S and promptly ditched
it for an SE after feeling like the thing was designed to slip out of my
enormous hands. That whole "reachability" feature they added when they started
with this phablet obsession was basically an admission of guilt—"Yeah, this
phone is too big for your hands and goes completely against our brilliant ad
campaign about the phone vs hand size, but Samsung made a big phone and people
are buying it! We're scared they're taking our customers away so we're making
big phones now. Here's a workaround."

Thanks, I hate it.

As someone holding on tightly to an out of date iPhone and a 2015 MacBook Pro
(oh my god, the current laptop keyboard/trackpad/port situation is a whole
'nother even more intense rant), I think Apple has fucking lost it product-
wise. I'm saying this as someone who has been on Apple products since 1987 and
lived through the dark days of Apple in the 90s.

To me it's an example of what happens when you put a finance guy and not a
product guy at the top of the totem pole. Instead of asking "is this product
the best it could be?" the thought process seems to be "Will this product make
money? How can it make MORE money?"

"Yeah, it doesn't sit on a table flat anymore, but it'll sell when we market
it as 'THE SHINIEST IPHONE EVER'"

"It sure is awkward to use one handed, but it'll sell when we market it as
'THE NEWEST IPHONE WE'VE EVER MADE'"

Bigger and bigger iPhones with better and better cameras and more and more
letters tacked on to the end will sell to a captive audience when Apple has
the brand power they do. And that might seem good enough when all you're doing
is comparing yourself to what the rest of the market is releasing, and when
market success is beating last year's sales. But is that the Apple we want?

Nope.

I want my Apple back. The SE was the last phone form-factor that still had
Steve Job's approval on it, and it sucks that it's so obvious.

~~~
yoz-y
Thing is, it is not nonsense. People here always cry for 'voting with your
wallet'. Well, people did and here we are. Apple was massively criticised for
_years_ that they did not put out a large phone, because that's where all of
the android market went.

Then, when they finally made the iPhone 6 their sales were so large that the
next year's phone was deemed a flop even though it did extremely well. (If one
would remove iPhone 6 from the sales chart, the 6S would still continue the
trend in increased sales every year).

I would love apple to also offer a smaller phone, but offering people what
they actually want was not a mistake.

~~~
SomeOldThrow
> offering people what they actually want was not a mistake.

You can’t read customer preference from the market when they stopped offering
choice in this regard. I bought a large phone because that’s the choice they
offered and fucking hate it.

~~~
yoz-y
I think they do have pretty good numbers because the iPhone 5S was still sold
even after the 6 was out. So, when the 6S came out they could compare how well
the 1 year old 6 fared against a then one year old 5S.

Also they did make the SE. I am pretty sure Apple knows what is most money
making strategy.

This being said, they do offer (or will soon) a Mac Pro which clearly is not
there to make big bucks. They could (and I would love them to) offer a smaller
phone with latest internal specs. They do have bandwidth for that.

~~~
SomeOldThrow
My fear is that what makes apple money is inherently an expensive, shitty
phone for everyone. They are incentivized to keep us purchasing high dollar
products, not to make quality products.

The software has me over a barrel. I would dump Apple hardware in a heartbeat
if I could get it running on a phone built for reliability. I’d stop
complaining about the hardware so much if they allowed independent app stores
with better curation. Together makes me look for alternatives (which also suck
mostly for software reasons).

------
dijit
Every year I wait on bated breath at the release of a similarly compact phone
to the SE. I even recently bought a new one right before they removed them
from the store, so I have 2 year apple care+ for it to tide me over.

Ordinarily I would vote with my wallet, but there are no compact Android
phones either.

Ironically I still own a Oneplus One which is quite old by todays standards;
and I distinctly remember it being called a "Phablet" due to it's obtuse
stature in comparison to its contemporaries. However it would not look out of
place today, in fact in comparison to my friends iPhone Xs (not max) it hardly
seems at all larger!

I would merrily slam down 1K+ EUR for a real flagship phone at a size I can
actually use.

(also, I wonder how women get on, since generally they have smaller hands than
men.)

~~~
RJIb8RBYxzAMX9u
> (also, I wonder how women get on, since generally they have smaller hands
> than men.)

PopSockets. In my neck of the woods they are almost as common as phone cases.
Some men also use them.

~~~
dijit
[https://www.urbanoutfitters.com/shop/popsockets-tortoise-
she...](https://www.urbanoutfitters.com/shop/popsockets-tortoise-shell-phone-
stand)

Oh wow, this is horrible.

~~~
kjeetgill
I don't know if you're unfamiliar or not but it flattens out.

~~~
irq
No it doesn’t. At least, it doesn’t go flat enough that it doesn’t disrupt
wireless charging.

~~~
kjeetgill
Fair, just that in the pictures there it's only shown extended or without
perspective.

------
labster
My work bought me an "upgrade" to the XR, as my SE is starting to show some
battery issues. But after a day of playing with the XR, I put it back in the
box to send back to Apple.

Compared to the SE, the XR is 50% heavier -- even without a case. It doesn't
have a good edge to hold onto being so thin, so it makes you want to hold on
by the front. But every corner of the front of the device is a UI element that
you can accidentally interact with. FaceID failed 90% of of the time for me --
and unlike the fingerprint reader, 100% of the time in the dark of night.
That's before I get to the simple annoyances, like how it's not flat, doesn't
fit in the pocket so well, and blasts my face full of light in the night.

So Apple lost a sale by not offering a product I want. If my SE breaks, I'll
probably just pull my iPhone 1 out of storage -- it still works, has a great
form factor, and a much lighter weight than any of Apple's current lineup.
Sure EDGE is a little slow and I won't be able to use my Apple Pay, but those
are problems I can live with. I live on large screens all day. I don't need a
huge phone to be my computer.

I want a choice -- even if that choice is a remanufacture of a 2016 design. An
updated design -- say an SE/30 -- would be great. But between that and the
keyboard issues in the Macbooks, they've made an Apple fan with upgrades
provided by work skip several product cycles. I read enough of these threads
to know I'm not the only one. I just wish I knew why they kept leaving money
on the table in the pursuit of thinness.

~~~
TacticalTable
> EDGE is a little slow

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe EDGE has been disabled across a lot of
the US.

~~~
joecool1029
Nationally it's only used by T-Mobile in very small amounts of spectrum, and
only as fallback of last resort or for legacy things like burglar alarms.
Regionally, there might be some rural specialty carriers using it (stuff like
indigo wireless for the mining industry).

AT&T shut their footprint off completely a few years ago to free up spectrum
in 850mhz.

------
stephc_int13
My SE will probably be my last iOS device.

iOS used to be much better than competition, but I don't think that's the case
now.

I never liked big-ass phones, and in my opinion the best iPhone design was the
iPhone4, this one was a real masterpiece.

But I won't pay a premium for a phone I don't like, when my SE will no longer
do its job, it will be replaced by a cheap Android device.

~~~
oplav
Do you use any other Apple products? I feel the same way about paying a
premium for a phone I don't like, but iMessage is what is keeping me from
switching (back) to Android.

My personal computer is a 2014 MacBook. My work computer is a MacBook. Being
able to message freely from my laptop to others on iMessage is a really nice
feature.

~~~
xnyan
With android you also can do this on MacOS, as well as Linux and Windows.

~~~
OJFord
And then in a few months' time you can do it in a new app with a slightly
different UI!

------
ch_123
> Apple discontinued the iPhone SE at the tail end of 2018 and has stated that
> the next iOS update will not run on the old SE hardware.

Apple has in fact stated that iOS 13 will run on the SE:

[https://www.apple.com/ie/ios/ios-13/](https://www.apple.com/ie/ios/ios-13/)

I believe the internals are approximately the same as the 6S, and I would
expect that both will be supported for the same amount of time.

~~~
javagram
Came here to make the same comment.

I don’t think Apple has confirmed any EOL for the SE. It’s not sold in the USA
anymore, but isn’t it still produced in India for that market (maybe ending
now that the 11 is announced, I’m not sure)?

------
temuze
Mostly, I hope they bring TouchID back, preferably via a scanner on the back
of the phone.

Outside of providing a bigger screen, FaceID is strictly worse:

\- When I pulled my old iPhone out of my pocket, I would have my finger on the
scanner and it would be unlocked before it reached my face. With FaceID on the
iPhone X, I have to wait a few seconds.

\- If you wake up and you're squinting as you look at your phone, FaceID won't
work

\- If you're wearing a hat and sunglasses, FaceID might not work

\- If you're doing something else but you want to unlock your phone on the
side in preparation for your next task, you have to stop and look at the phone

~~~
flyinglizard
But if you're in a pool with your family and want to take a photo, TouchID
isn't going to work. And if you've been running and sweating and want to
unlock your phone, many times it won't work. And if you're riding your bike in
the woods and want to unlock it - right, gloves...

~~~
akhilcacharya
You can take a photo without logging in just by swiping right

~~~
EForEndeavour
By swiping (to the) left.

------
cydonian_monk
I'll chime in as another iPhone SE supporter. I'm still rocking mine, which
itself replaced a four year old iPhone 5. Best form factor of any such device
I've ever owned. I replaced the battery in both after two years, as the iPhone
5 one was completely shot and the one in my SE was not doing well (and at
whatever Apple considers 75%). Otherwise both have been near bulletproof.

------
skrebbel
> _It is unlikely that any of my friends and family members are going to move
> to Android, where there is a wide variety of hardware form factors to choose
> from._

There's hardly any good iPhone SE-sized Android phones anymore. I have a Sony
Xperia Somethingsomething Compact and it's the only option I'm aware of, and
it's not really that great. I've never had an iPhone but if they release a new
SE I'd probably jump ship in a heartbeat.

~~~
pmontra
I had to replace my Xperia X Compact (2016) recently. The latest Compacts
weight much more and cost like flagship phones, which they are. However I'm
not interested into something weighting so much and costing some 600 Euro. I
compromised on a Samsung A40 which is the smallest modern Android phone I was
able to find. It costs 200 Euros and weights 140 g. Compared to the Compact is
a much better phone. Bezel less OLED screen and still the 3.5 audio jack. It's
as wide as the Compact and thinner. Unfortunately the A40 is too long and I
can feel the difference when I put it in the pockets on the legs of hiking
trousers: it starts hindering movements. The shorter and thicker Compact
didn't. And the extra 2 cm of length aren't really worth much. I would cut
them off and still have a better phone than the Compact.

------
dpflan
Cool, another supporter of a smaller iPhone. I upgraded my SE to a newer SE
after buying a clearance SE from the Apple store. If they could make a high
res. screen that essentially is the entire front of the phone (ala the trend
for larger phones), I'd be impressed and upgrade.

I wonder what data is motivating Apple with regard to phone sizes. I assume
trends towards video and image consumption are really pushing for larger
screens. Anyone have any insight or knowledge?

~~~
JansjoFromIkea
On one side having a significantly smaller screen to cater to limits app
developers quite a bit, so removing the 320px option would be welcomed there.

Another factor is the things that drive a person to spend $500+ on a phone are
probably quite far removed from what they actually want from a phone from day
to day. A big huge all encompassing screen is gonna outperform something that
actually fits in your pocket every time.

~~~
saagarjha
> On one side having a significantly smaller screen to cater to limits app
> developers quite a bit, so removing the 320px option would be welcomed
> there.

I develop iOS apps and love my iPhone SE. It's a bit difficult to develop for
that screen size, but it's only a little bit of additional effort and I
wouldn't give up my phone for that. Plus, even if iPhone SE went away there
are new devices with that form factor (for example, the new iPod Touch) that
will be supported for quite some time.

~~~
dpflan
I've noticed this: web apps for mobile and even iOS apps seem to spill over.
Is there a tool for helping you to develop for the varying screen sizes? (SE
surely is an outlier here, but still, the question stands).

~~~
saagarjha
Honestly, the biggest one is just using the device regularly: you'll be able
to tell what'll work and what won't a lot easier. It's clear when people
design an interface for a device they haven't used (even Apple does this for
certain apps). Get a physical iPhone SE (they're quite cheap) and use it as a
development device. Or even better, use it as your _actual_ device.

------
irae
For everyone here saying they can't vote with their wallet. You actually can.
Apple is so proud of costumer satisfaction. Just buy whatever phone, use it
for a day, restore backup to your SE and return the phone saying large screens
are not for you. They will see it both as costumer satisfaction statistics and
from reactivation of your beloved iPhone SE

------
033803throwaway
Or someone, anyone, make a functional clone of it.

I don't care much which OS I have to run, they are all the same now. I just
want a smart phone that fits in a single hand.

I tried the palm and it is a bit too small, and the battery life was insanely
bad.

~~~
Apocryphon
> _I don 't care much which OS I have to run_

Maybe Purism could think about making a Librem 4 after the 5 releases. Double-
down on the hacker-hobbyist niche.

~~~
als0
> Double-down on the hacker-hobbyist niche.

Might be hard to sell for a sensible price in that case.

~~~
opencl
It's already not what most people would call a sensible price. Seems difficult
to significantly shrink a phone that has a pair of M.2 slots in it though.

------
layer8
According to rumors, the 2020 iPhone Pro will be reduced from 5.8" to 5.4",
which could look like this (size comparison including SE):
[https://blogs.forbes.com/gordonkelly/files/2019/06/New-
iPhon...](https://blogs.forbes.com/gordonkelly/files/2019/06/New-
iPhone-5.4-inch-Edited.jpg)

However that size would still be significantly wider horizontally than the SE,
pretty much as wide as the 6/7/8 (which I found too wide for comfortable one-
handed use).

In addition, they would probably keep the on/off button on the side instead of
relocating it back to the top. The latter would be my preference, also for
consistency with the iPads. When I owned both an iPhone 6 and an iPad mini, my
muscle memory couldn't quite get used to the inconsistency of the on/off
button location.

------
ruffrey
I won't upgrade from this old used SE until some phone manufacturer produces a
working phone that will fit in a pocket. It boggles the mind. I tried the
Jelly Pro, which ran Slack and a handful of critical apps, but the battery
life was only a few hours.

~~~
briandear
How small are your pockets? I have an iPhone X and it fits just fine.

~~~
mangix
[https://pudding.cool/2018/08/pockets/](https://pudding.cool/2018/08/pockets/)

------
pkorzeniewski
I can't believe that despite sooo many smartphone models there isn't even ONE
under 5 inch with a good camera. Two years ago I bought one of the cheapest
smartphones on the market (Alcatel Pixi with 4 inch screen) because it was the
smallest one I could find - it has the perfect form factor and is good enough
for most stuff I use, but one thing I really miss is a good camera. I waited
for something better in that size to show up but the phones just get bigger
and bigger...

~~~
KiSM
I feel that, IMO the Sony Xperia XZ2 Compact is about the b̶e̶s̶t only premium
compact phone.

No confirmed successor and it was a bit pricey too...

~~~
Nition
I looked at that phone as an option a while ago but it's relatively huge
compared to the SE. The screen is 25% larger.

I realize it's also the smallest recent high-end Android phone though!

------
eddywebs
Ive been using SE since the first day it came out and refuse to upgrade for
the same reason stated in the post. Just yesterday I was stopped at the
airport and security asked me that phone is so small is this new? I had to
respond "no its an old iphone". I have been repeatedly made fun of using a
tiny phone while whenever somebody makes this comment back in my mind I think
the jokes on you.

Can't agree more with the sentiment here, great minds do think alike ;)

------
ljm
The SE must be my favourite phone ever since the Nokia 3310 (although the
Yotaphone was up there for pure novelty of having an e-ink display on the
reverse). It was practically perfect and it could take more of a beating than
the latest X series phones.

An SE sized X would be nice (with the Face ID and stuff), with a higher screen
resolution, but I think it would become more fragile as a result.

------
paul7986
Yes .. iPhone 8 size and below.. please. Current sizes are too big to use in
one hand without having to reposition the phone (my pet peeve).

Touch ID as well. Preferred over Face ID... grab phone with thumb it opens
instantly (my personal experience).

Another year for myself Im not refreshing my iPhone. I did every year from
2009 to 2018; bought the XS last year and returned it. __EDITED

~~~
jcampbell1
I was in your camp, then I got a ring that sticks to the back of the phone. I
stopped using a case because I no longer drop my phone, and have even started
really stupid things like texting while biking. A ring let's you use bigger
phones one handed. Those popper things are more popular but inferior in every
aspect.

~~~
paul7986
Cool, but still no Touch ID as well. One step .. grab my phone with thumb and
it's open even before meeting my face.

------
maz1b
I believe in voting with my dollars.

I will be waiting for a smaller size phone that doesn't compromise on hardware
and features, and if Apple doesn't make it within a year or so, then I'll
start to look at alternatives. People talk about how Tim Cook is a logistics
master, so it shouldn't be difficult to do a smaller sized phone. I don't want
a cheaper, lower quality phone, I just want an iPhone XS that's smaller.

------
AznHisoka
Has anyone experienced more frequent RSI or carpal tunnel syndrome (or any
hand pain) as a result of using the larger iPhones? It might just be me, but
ever since I transitioned from the old iPhone 4's to the iPhone Plus', I have
had more instances of random hand-related pain.

------
pcmaffey
I just retired my 5s and bought an SE for $100 from a 12 year old. It's even
rose gold hah.

Only reason my 5s needed to go was because it doesn't support VoLTE, which the
SE does, and is needed to get calls at my house.

As others have said, would totally spend $900 on a similar sized phone with
upgraded internals. But, looks like I'll just hold onto this one for ever...

------
thanatos_dem
Apparently Apple has given up on the whole “common sense thing” that the
touted during the iPhone 5 days -
[https://youtu.be/O99m7lebirE](https://youtu.be/O99m7lebirE)

------
sangd
I owned the SE for ~3 years and I always loved how capable the phone is. It
worked well almost like any new iPhone and it has surprisingly good camera
too. I recently switched to the Pixel 3A when it came out because the camera
was the main reason. After a few months, I see that Pixel 3A camera doesn't
look as truthful as my old SE. Even though the video has optical stabilizer,
it doesn't feel as smooth as my SE, and the quality is actually
disappointingly worse than my SE. I miss my SE. I do wish Apple update the SE
with a new version and I would definitely buy it.

------
TimTheTinker
The article says Apple "... has stated that the next iOS update will not run
on the old SE hardware."

Not true. iOS 13's compatibility list includes iPhone SE (near the bottom):
[https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-13/](https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-13/)

------
davidjnelson
I wish Apple would make a good product. I’d be thrilled to drop a grand to get
better cpu, storage, ram, and camera.

But if I have to give up the phone not falling out of my pockets and breaking,
the removal of the aux jack, and the removal of Touch ID, why bother?

Are my interests unusual? Do they not want money? I don’t get it.

------
tlrobinson
I currently use a gigantic iPhone X, but I found my old iPhone 5S (basically
the same design as the SE) the other day and was amazed at how small it was.
That was one of Apple's great designs.

------
bryanlarsen
Presumably Apple doesn't make a new SE because it would kill their margins.
And it'd be hard for them to make the SE expensive because it would probably
be thicker, with a cheaper screen, worse battery life and worse performance
(because of battery & cooling).

But I'm sure they could come up with some semi-plausible reason to make an "SE
Pro" so they can keep those margins. How about owning the extra thickness and
giving it a massive battery and using the depth to put killer camera optics
in?

~~~
Apocryphon
Pretty insane that the most profitable company in the (history of the?) world
is so risk adverse so as to obsess about margins.

~~~
als0
That's probably how they became the most profitable tech company in the first
place.

~~~
Apocryphon
They also took risks, once

------
coolandsmartrr
My quick prediction is that if Apple intends to continue with the SE, they
would quietly announce it around spring next year. Announcing an SE at this
time may cannibalize holiday seasons sales.

------
acqq
I'm also still using an SE and I'm not sure what I will do if it breaks. I
want Apple iOS, but I definitely want the size of SE and nothing bigger. And
the 3.5 headphone jack. And the not-too-curved edge so that I can it can stay
on it. I'd pay 500 for a newer model with a newer CPU.

------
irae
> Presumably Apple doesn't make a new SE because it would kill their margins.

I think that is not the case. They could just build something with A12 or A13
chip, call it "iPhone Mini" and have high margins again.

I think the real deal is mainboard design, case design and all the
manufacturing pipeline can't scale to 4 models a year. They are focusing on
the XR and now they even removed the suffix. They realized the cheaper model
must be big enough. So every year they spend the resources there.

Maybe next year, they can spend one cycle doing a 4" screen form factor, since
this year all the announcements have at least 2 cameras. So maybe next year
the Pro will have only one screen size and they can do regular, mini and pro.
Each with a different display size.

------
irae
The bad news is: There is no Android alternative either. Phones with 4" and
good processing powers and reasonable cameras just don't exist. Really dire
situation. I guess I have one more year with iOS 13 before I'll need to get
used to use an outdated iOS.

------
raldi
No, bring back the iPhone 4S. It was the perfect size and shape. You could
even stand it on its side, due to the flat edges. And the square corners made
it easier to grip.

Even the iPhone 5 was too big.

------
donohoe
Yes - the form factor of the SE is just unbeatable. I've remain surprised that
Apple moved to and stays with the current form factor.

------
jblake
Love my SE. Replaced the battery for $15 off Amazon yesterday. With
replacements available on ebay for under $100, I don't have to baby my phone
or use a case.

If apple offered a modern SE, I'd probably buy it, but I'm also quite happy
with my SE as-is. If the SE wasn't getting iOS 13, I don't know what I'd do...
thankfully it is.

------
irae
Here is my plan: Buy old broken iPhone SEs and go to Apple support to get a
replacement for whatever their price is. I'll get one for replacing mine
(battery issues) and one for myself in the future, in case they really stop
manufacturing it. Shame on Apple.

------
daviddumon
That's it, I just replaced my old iphone 6 for a refurbished SE. It's a shame,
really. I don't mind paying the iphone 11 pro max price for something that
hold in my hand, but apparently the market disagree.

------
rbrbr
And don’t forget that a new iPhone with the size of an SE but design of the X
would have a display size of around the iPhone 6/7/8 and make those phones
entirely obsolete yet being smaller.

------
stjohnswarts
I think most people who like the SE have small hands, and I don't know why
apple would dismiss that market. I have finger sausages so I appreciate the
bigger screen and keyboard. I think apple thinks in terms of sheer profit and
don't care about people with small hands and small pockets. Little do they
know the small hands will pay a premium as well to have an Apple so even that
doesn't really make any sense except to bean counters in cubes.

------
K2h
Paid $299 for a new old stock from apple - 128GB SE. I looked at which of the
modem bands fit my use case the best and got the T-mobile version. My second
se, upgraded from 16GB version when camera optics seriously degraded after
rugged use, and found apple charges for a whole phone to change the lens. Love
the phone. I told IT when they asked what phone i wanted to “get me the small
one - to fit in my skinny jeans”. I don't wear skinny jeans, but they got the
point.

------
mythz
I bought the SE for my kid ($149 on Amazon) as he was getting frustrated when
using my old iPhone 4 which was slow and unresponsive. He absolutely loves it
and I'm kind of jealous of how small, lightweight and portable it is vs my
iPhone XS - definitely the best price/form factor for kids and can definitely
see the appeal of smaller phones esp. if you don't spend a lot of time in
using App's or browsing where the small screen real-estate hurts UX.

------
rtpg
> It is unlikely that any of my friends and family members are going to move
> to Android, where there is a wide variety of hardware form factors to choose
> from. The iOS lockin is very powerful.

The worst thing is that despite this there are basically no high-end small
phones in Android either! Once you look at phones smaller than like 5 inches
you get into very weird or super low-end phones that are basically unusable.

Hell, even the iphone 8 and X is smaller than most androids

------
gkolli
I apologize if this is a naive question, but why doesn't Apple continue to
sell the SE if it was popular and there is a continued market for it?

~~~
TacticalTable
Nobody besides Apple knows the exact reason(s), but I'd guess it's because
they determined that enough users were attached to the ecosystem that they
could upsell more of them on a larger/more-expensive phone, than they would
lose to competitors. Presumably that profit difference is smaller than the
cost to develop a new form factor.

------
sbr464
I don’t mind the larger phones, but I feel a lot of work could be done on
keeping all input to one side or the other, easing single digit input.

------
aeharding
My next phone after the SE will hopefully be a standalone Apple Watch
(Cellular) with some AirPods.

Once watchOS grows independent enough from the iPhone...

~~~
bobajeff
That's pretty much my thoughts on the matter.

At some point some company is going to come out with a really good stand-alone
smartwatch. And that will take the place of small phones and probably even
regular sized phones.

------
minieggs
Nothing wrong with the current SE. I’m typing on it now. :-) (other than all
the websites that stopped testing on small screens... looking at you Reddit).

[https://www.dropbox.com/s/wwe4m83my4zj4ul/Photo%20Sep%2010%2...](https://www.dropbox.com/s/wwe4m83my4zj4ul/Photo%20Sep%2010%2C%209%2022%2037%20AM.png?dl=0)

------
femto113
I still have my first iPhone, a 3G with the curved back. Every once in a while
I pick it up and always marvel at how comfortable it is in my hand compared to
the iPhone X I use now. I oouldn't possibly go back to using a screen that
small but would definitely give up _some_ screen size to regain a bit of that
old "nice to hold" feel.

------
ezequiel-garzon
EDIT: Never mind, OP is right, I had this wrong. Thanks, 333c.

 _Apple discontinued the iPhone SE at the tail end of 2018_

Actually it was on September 12, 2017, the day they announced the iPhone X
[1], even if they had it on sale for a while early this year.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_SE](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_SE)

~~~
333c
You mis-quoted your source, which says September 12, 2018, which in my mind
does count as the tail end of 2018.

~~~
ezequiel-garzon
Oops! Thank you, I was _so_ sure that I read it, and typed it, incorrectly. It
was when they announced the iPhone XS then.

------
davej
I've been stuck on the iPhone SE since release and refuse to switch even
though the home button is broken. I would consider switching to Android if a
manufacturer released a premium phone with SE-like dimensions. There's
literally nothing on the market with a decent spec anymore. "Compact" phones
now have screens that are > 6 inches.

------
jzl
Macrumors just reported the other day that there may in fact be an SE 2 or
equivalent coming in the spring: [https://www.macrumors.com/2019/09/04/apple-
to-launch-low-cos...](https://www.macrumors.com/2019/09/04/apple-to-launch-
low-cost-iphone-early-2020/)

~~~
sobani
If I understand that article correctly, given the rumored size, it will be
more like a budget iPhone 8, than a new SE.

~~~
jzl
Not sure I understand what you mean by that. The rumored size is 4.7 inches,
like the SE. The SE has basically the same innards as the 6s, so this seems
like an upgrade to the innards of the 8.

Maybe we're saying the same thing? An SE with the innards of the 8 and
hopefully a more edge-to-edge screen and possibly even FaceID would be warmly
welcomed by current SE owners, I think.

~~~
sobani
According to Wikipedia[0] the SE has a 4.0 inch screen. It's total height is
4.87 inches. So I'm not sure where you got the 4.7 inches for an SE from.

Maybe you're confused with the 6S that did have a 4.7 inch screen?

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_SE#Reception](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_SE#Reception)

~~~
jzl
Yep, you're right, I read the article too fast and missed some key lines. It
clearly says "the form factor of an 8". I assumed it was calling it 4.7in
because that would be roughly the screen size of an SE with an edge-to-edge
display.

------
post_break
I feel like the only one who thinks the Xs size is perfect compared to the SE.
If you polled everyone online they just want the SE.

------
redisman
Is there even a good 4" Android to switch over to at this point? Their
flagship phones also seem to be slowly expanding.

~~~
erigeron
There's not even good stuff in the 4.7" to 5.2" range anymore.

~~~
aidenn0
[https://www.sonymobile.com/us/products/phones/xperia-
xz2-com...](https://www.sonymobile.com/us/products/phones/xperia-xz2-compact/)

~~~
raynr
The xz2c was a step down in many ways from the xz1c. Just off the top of my
head, no headphone jack (I use mine almost daily), back-mounted fingerprint
sensor (that's not how I use my phone), fatter and bigger, less battery life,
and front-facing selfie camera is not wide angle.

------
colinmegill
> iOS lockin is very powerful

Loved the smaller form factor and switched to Pixel when the phones got bigger
and more expensive.

But I didn't feel the software lockin — I was using Google maps, mail, cal,
docs, etc., plus Spotify etc., etc., and that became easier when I switched to
the Pixel, less fighting with the OS.

Have others found the switch difficult?

------
gumby
I think Apple's answer to that is a watch with LTE. Seriously.

My GF controls her apple watch by voice, glances at imessages on the screen
and replies by voice, and really only pulls out her phone when seated or
waiting-while-standing.

I doubt a modernized SE-sized device could meet Apple's margin needs.

------
3ef53e78e42b
Make sure to give Apple the feedback directly:
[https://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html](https://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html)

Not likely it will change any strategic direction, but more official feedback
might sway things a tiny bit.

------
DevKoala
Please do it. I would buy it on a heartbeat. I don’t like carrying this tablet
sized display (XS). I miss my SE, it was just too sluggish and restarting too
much when I replaced it. Also, I have a feeling that the reason why they don’t
do it is because bigger screen generate more engagement.

------
mandus
I was holding my old iPhone3 in my hands a few days ago (one of my kids have
collected a few phones in the house over the years). It felt so good, light
and small. I really long for a phone in that form-factor again, the big phones
of today is just silly.

------
slyrus
Here I was thinking the author was suggesting bringing back the Macintosh SE,
but with, oh, a retina display, 12 cores, 4 TB of SSD, powerful mini-speakers,
and ... a small drink-refrigerator or maybe a place to hold a potted plant.
That would have been cool.

------
viach
> So Apple doesn’t need to do this so much for business reasons. But I do
> think they should do this for other reasons.

It is interesting to know someone thinks that such a successful mega Corp like
Apple has or even should have some other reasons besides business.

------
627467
I used to think that compact sized phone such as SE (or Sony compact range)
were perfect size for me. Until I got a Galaxy S8 and realized that, as long
as width is ok, I can stand a long screen. Even the S9 (at about 1mm wider)
feels too wide.

------
zkhalique
If you still use an SE you're instantly my friend. This is a battle worth
fighting.

------
zzleeper
Silly question, but what does he mean by the iOS lock-in? I have both an
Android (personal) and iphone (work) and don't find anything particularly
appealing about the iphone wrt to a much much cheaper Huawei (besides a faster
camera)

------
graeme
I would absolutely through money at a better phone, but I'm holding out with
an iPhone 8 because anything bigger heavier is uncomfortable. There are
rumours to 2020 flag ship will be smaller, I'm looking forward to that.

------
gnicholas
The SE would probably also be better from an environmental perspective, since
it would use fewer materials. Why are they forcing everyone to buy big phones,
whether they like them or not?

------
345218435
i love all the things an iphone has to offer. but on top i have the following
three requirements.

1\. need to reach all screen corners with one thumb: one-handed usage 2\. be
flat on all sides, don‘t fucking wobble: no bulges 3\. i will touch it for
interaction; don‘t look at me: touch id

now, looking at what apple serially delivers, these things are not impossible
for them to achieve. the question is, why do they go the other way and try to
sell me phones too slim to properly house the camera.

------
kaycebasques
My SE is still serving me well. The small form factor was definitely the
deciding factor for me. I like being able to comfortably sit down with my
phone in my front pocket.

------
programminggeek
I think the Google Pixel 3a is the best reasonably sized and reasonably priced
phone for most people. Performance is good, camera is great, price is
sensible.

------
nico_h
my SE 64GB is nearing the end of it’s useful life (battery is old, dust on the
front and main camera, broken back glass ). I’m looking into either a second
hand 128GB SE or getting an out of warranty repair. The small size and one
handedness are just essential features in so many situations.

i really wish they made an updated SE with a full screen front and updated
cameras. And the real black aluminium back. from the iphone 5.

------
ricardobeat
I bought a new SE earlier this year, but managed to completely shatter the
screen _twice_ and gave up on it. Still holding onto a 6S.

~~~
Synaesthesia
6S is great, I still love mine.

------
benologist
Sometimes I use my SE to listen to music without headphones and it amazes me
compared to the garbage speakers in my monitors.

------
mrbonner
I have an 7 plus and will hold on to it for as long as I could until a smaller
iPhone (<4.5 in) comes along.

------
meddlepal
I suspect the popularity of the large form factor phones is boomers who have
aging eyesight and motor skills.

------
ryacko
I’ll repost an old comment: I’d like an iPod Touch with cellular.

Until then, I’ll keep my iPhone SE and disable JavaScript.

------
Apreche
Remember with iPods they kept trying to make them smaller and smaller? iPhone
nano or iPhone Air please.

------
bartwe
I asked a phoneseller friend about it 'People don't want those phones' was the
answer.

~~~
345218435
„those“??

------
pdonis
So let me get this straight: the author admits Apple doesn't need to do this
for business reasons, but is asking them to be nice and do it for other
reasons? And the option of, you know, using one's market power to give Apple
an incentive to do it for business reasons isn't on the table?

Does the term "self-inflicted wound" ring a bell?

~~~
saurik
The argument is that due to all of the other lock-in effects, users don't
really have the choice of switching to another smaller device (which, fwiw,
doesn't even really exist anymore either: the world seems to have decided high
quality small phones are a bad idea).

~~~
pdonis
_> due to all of the other lock-in effects_

Which have been common knowledge about Apple for longer than plenty of Apple
users have been alive. And if users choose to keep on being users when they
know full well what Apple is up to, again, self-inflicted wound.

------
gnicholas
Anyone else having connection problems with AVC.com? I couldn't find an
archive link.

------
Khaine
I want a smaller size phone as well. Give me something the size of the
original iPhone.

------
Synaesthesia
The iPhone 7 can be gotten for quite cheap these days and it’s a nice size IMO

------
prvc
Does anyone have a source for the claim of dropped support in iOS 14?

------
rock_artist
At least I’m happy to see small form factor still got audience.

------
whycombagator
Bring back TouchID too.

------
foobarbecue
I use the Sony xperia compact / minis. They are great!

------
chrismatheson
Maybe we just aren’t the target market for Apple phones.

------
mhd
I really liked my SE/30\. Even had Ethernet.

------
kingkawn
Still using an SE, it’s the best

------
jtth
It's coming in the spring.

~~~
rchaud
It's rumoured to have a 4.7-inch screen, so probably not much smaller than the
iPhone 6,7 and 8, even if they are able to reduce the top bezels somewhat.

~~~
Dylan16807
Based on the math in this thread
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20932102](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20932102)

a 4.7 inch screen with similar bezels to an X would be about .1 inches smaller
than an 5S/SE.

------
vernie
Please give avc.com to someone who does video compression.

------
mehrdada
Keeping SE supported fragments iOS market and burden the developers. iPhone 8
is now the low-cost iPhone roughly at SE price point with a screen size that
you kind of have to support anyway.

~~~
castis
Removing the SE fragments the user base. I'll go to another hardware vendor to
keep a hand-sized device.

~~~
mehrdada
Android has never had good support for small devices, so I don't think that's
a huge risk.

~~~
erigeron
The Android phones in 2013 were a pretty good size, small by today's
standards.

------
shifto
I have a SE for work but a Xiaomi Mi 9 for personal use. I just can't get used
to iOS and the small SE. Cant type a decent message on it and the UI, although
easy, just makes me feel I'm missing out on efficiency.

Not to mention I don't really care for apple products besides my old iPod (and
of course the old stuff like the Apple][).

~~~
shifto
It's funny how saying you don't like apple gets you downvotes on HN. Imo it's
weird technical minded people like on here even think good of apple but that's
probably just me.

