
Thin yet Repairable Devices: HP Proves They Exist - sohkamyung
https://www.ifixit.com/News/hp-makes-the-modern-repairable-devices-you-might-have-forgotten-existed
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fyfy18
Thinkpads are in the same boat. I have a T470s, which at it's thickest point
is 1.8cm when closed (it tapers down to 1.6cm) and weighs 1.3kg.

The other day I upgraded the NVMe drive, which involved unscrewing 5 screws on
the back cover (they don't remove completely, so you can't lose them), pulling
it off, then removing the screw securing the drive in place, pulling out the
drive, then doing the same in reverse to put it back together. I didn't even
need any fancy head, just a standard Philips screwdriver is fine.

If any parts break it's easy to get replacements and perform the work (Lenovo
provide lists of part numbers and instructions). Oh and the modification I did
will not affect my on-site warranty in any way.

I admire Apple for some of their work, but it just seems like they are
shooting themselves in the foot with the lack of repairability and overpriced
hardware. I used to be a die hard Apple fan, but the hardware they have
released in the last few years has just put me off - now I don't own any Apple
products.

~~~
_emacsomancer_
The newer ThinkPads seem much less user-servicable than the older models
though. I hope Lenovo returns to a user-servicability>thinness approach at
some point.

~~~
nine_k
It's not newer vs older. It's slick hipster-looking mac-like all-soldered X
series vs thicker corporate all-serviceable bricks of T series. (I greatly
prefer the latter, of course.)

~~~
_emacsomancer_
My understanding is that the newer X- and T- are still less serviceable than
earlier models in the same line.

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godelski
I hope this gets a lot of praise. Being able to repair isn't just a hobby. It
saves people a lot of money and is really beneficial to the environment. It is
something we should strive for. Computers have gotten fast enough where most
consumers don't need all the latest and greatest hardware. Frankly most people
just surf the internet and watch netflix. We should encourage repair-ability

~~~
TeMPOraL
And with somewhat standardized components, even the broken devices can get
cannibalized for parts and used to upgrade or fix different devices.

(As long as companies don't try to solder it, you can always swap at least RAM
and storage. Around friends and family, I had plenty of times where somebody
fried their computer (e.g. water damage), and the drive and RAM from it found
second or third life in someone else's laptop. My last laptop was a broken one
I fixed and upgraded with components from two others. And even if you're not
into this level of computer necromancy, you can always sell the parts to those
who are.)

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SwellJoe
I hated my HP Envy, because it kept breaking, but...I guess I do have to give
them credit for it being fixable. I replaced both fans (in separate
incidents), the keyboard, and re-seated and taped the screen cable, in the
nearly three years I used it as my primary laptop. It lasted a lot longer than
the Dell that followed it, which broke in ways I couldn't fix. My stance on HP
has softened, because I've sort of seen that they're not alone in making
crappy stuff (and, no, Apple is not immune), it's kinda the norm these days.
I'd kinda sworn off of them forever...but, they're cheap and I guess they're
about par for the course in terms of today's laptop longevity. Being
repairable goes a long way to making them likeable again.

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jeswin
Slightly off topic, but do people prefer metal laptop cases as seen in this HP
elitebook? Aluminum looks great, but I find it way more slippery than carbon
or even matte plastic. Soft shells are so much more comfortable to hold than
metal.

The disappointing thing is Apple managed to draw a lot of otherwise sensible
designs from the practicality of the 90s to an aesthetics-first approach. As
an old Thinkpad user, I am baffled by the design decisions in the Macbook-Pro
line of products, from the shell to thinness and repairability.

~~~
seltzered_
I have an hp plastic elitebook laptop (made in 2017) and am baffled by the
flexness and lack of confidence in the case compared to my MacBook. I’ve also
tried using some of the well-regarded thinkpad models and dealt with plastic
falling off side panels and snagging when trying to slide it into backpacks.

I think Apple makes an assumption that if you want something with more
protection / grippyness, there’s a whole world of 3rd party case vendors happy
to solve that problem.

~~~
ghaff
>using some of the well-regarded thinkpad models and dealt with plastic
falling off side panels and snagging when trying to slide it into backpacks.

I've been a very longtime user of both Thinkpads and MacBooks. I've liked my
various Thinkpads but my experience using them as daily drivers was that there
were invariably various port covers and other parts that could be reliably
counted on to break off or otherwise be lost in a matter of months.

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equalunique
This comment is being written from the ThinkPad A485 that's been assigned to
me from my employer. It too is amazingly serviceable, as many ThinkPads have
built a reputation for upholding. I have grown accustom to only considering
ThinkPads when eyeing a new laptop.

Another corporate laptop I have had the joy of using is the HP EliteBook 840
G3, which is a predecessor of these devices inspected by iFixit. Like the
ThinkPad's TrackPoint, it has a PointStick which is nearly as usable. Opening
the device up reminds me a lot of my personal ThinkPad T460S.

Going forward, it's exciting to know that reparable laptops are not exclusive
to one vendor.

Also, props to Dell, who's recent Latitude laptops are still compatible with
old docks sporting a serial port - don't know of any other vendors making
those.

~~~
ttsda
The new thinkpads are not very repairable at all, especially the thin ones
like the X1 Carbon. Even the T490 is terrible in this aspect, and it's not a
super thin ultrabook.

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el_benhameen
Anyone use one of these for work and care to share their opinion? I got burned
real bad (figuratively, though it did get very hot) by a garbage HP laptop in
like 2006, so I’m curious if the build and general quality have improved.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
It would be a bit sad if they made them repairable because they fail so often.

Being more serious I’m not sure this is considered in the debate about
repairability. If Apple soldering memory to the motherboard is more reliable
than using a socket is that better or worse for the life of the product.

~~~
stallmanite
Except then upgrades are impossible so when software moves on the device is
useless anyway. Why defend this practice?

~~~
tonyedgecombe
Yes, that needs to go into the calculation as well.

Note I’m not defending this practice, just wondering if it’s really the
problem it’s made out to be.

~~~
stallmanite
I was less charitable than I should have been by asserting that you were
defending the practice, I apologize. I have a gut reaction to soldering RAM
down that is not necessarily rational, akin to being grossed out by spiders.

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gandalfian
Whereas my sisters consumer hp 15" laptop requires removing the keyboard? to
start opening it up. It required so much dismantling to replace the WiFi card
I told her to buy a usb dongle. Lenovo equivalent you just unscrew a hatch and
its there.

~~~
ygra
I replaced the WLAN card on my wife's Lenovo consumer laptop a few years ago
and needed a hacked BIOS because the original one was the only one that was
accepted for ... I don't know what reasons. Lenovo -- in that price bracket --
isn't really better in that respect.

~~~
gandalfian
Well that sucks. Bad luck. So much for that theory then.

~~~
ygra
Well, it _was_ easy to find and replace, though. The laptop just wouldn't boot
afterwards ;-)

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m3kw9
I think to get the extra mm of thinness of MacBooks, it takes away all space
to squeeze that out. Although they are both thin one is much tougher to
achieve.

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wil421
I have a HP Zbook G3 for work that’s pretty nice compared to some company
Dells I’ve had. The only downside is it’s massive. It’s so big and heavy I
could use it as a weapon.

My personal 15” mid-2017 MPB is way too thin and I’ve dropped it because of
it. My 2011 13” MBP could’ve been thinner but not as thin as they are now. I
dread the day something breaks.

How do the Dell XPSs compared to the newer MBPs or HP Zbooks size wise?

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tmaly
After reading this and the raspberry pi post the other day, I am of the
opinion that repairable and hackable are going to be the killer features.

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ggm
Yea, but does it come with a thinkpad keyboard and the "red dot"?

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fitzroy
I honestly had no idea HP still made laptops — or that they were still in the
consumer hardware business at all.

~~~
bsder
The question is whether they are still complete garbage. I'm not the only one
who absolutely refuses to buy anything branded HP.

~~~
eropple
The Spectre laptops are pretty dang nice and are Linux-friendly. The dark-and-
copper one looks fantastic, too. I'd be using one right now, instead of a
Thinkpad T480, if they didn't put Ctrl and Fn in the wrong places. (My hands
just can't re-learn that one.)

~~~
m3gatr0n
You can easily swap the functionality of the two keyboard keys in the BIOS
settings of your laptop (you must do something like this:
[https://www.geek.com/chips/how-to-swap-the-fn-and-ctrl-
keys-...](https://www.geek.com/chips/how-to-swap-the-fn-and-ctrl-keys-on-a-
thinkpad-1117812/)). The funny thing is that I am the only one in our company
that did this, meaning that when a colleague tries to use my keyboard, they
fail in 95% of the case. It's always funny to see this happen, but my
colleagues get often fustrated. You have been warned ;)

~~~
eropple
I tried this at the time. Mine lacked the option (the 2017 13" model). It was
really frustrating.

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sliken
But should they? I suspect a majority of the market would take a few extra mm
of thickness for a durable laptop with a durable battery that would last a few
more years.

But instead manufacturers of laptops, phones, and tablets are putting in
substandard batteries to help ensure you come back in a few years for a new
one. Especially evil is when there's no screws and they epoxy the battery.

~~~
sigstoat
> But instead manufacturers of laptops, phones, and tablets are putting in
> substandard batteries to help ensure you come back in a few years for a new
> one.

which manufacturer is it they're buying from that's substandard, who should
they be buying from, and how are those "standard" companies the standard when
they have to be making a tiny slice of the batteries on the planet if they're
not used in laptops, phones or tablets? in fact, what device would i find one
of their standard-quality batteries in?

~~~
sliken
Apple for instance, although their battery replacement program helps. Their
macbook air and other very thin laptops have very hard to replace batteries.
Not to mention the apple problems (keyboards and flexgate/stage light most
recently). Is it worth 3 generations of keyboard problems for some tiny saved
amount of thickness?

Google Pixel phones, slate, and pixel book are similarly hard. Dell and Lenovo
are mixed, some of the thin ones are hard to work on, some of the thicker ones
are great, modular, and easy to work on.

~~~
sigstoat
you addressed none of my questions.

