
U.S. Visitors May Have to Hand Over Social Media Passwords - erelde
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/us-visitors-may-have-hand-over-social-media-passwords-kelly-n718216
======
moh_maya
Why stop with social media? Why not email and other accounts as well, just to
be safe?

It's one thing to ask for social media user IDs (which still bothers me), but
this is taking it to another level.

I already have to submit my financial details, history of past travel..At some
point, you will come to a place where there's enough 'data' for anyone to
conclude anything they want. Sort of like, if all you have is a hammer,
everything will look like a nail.

Sad.

~~~
fictioncircle
It is time for everyone to start building fictional aliases of themselves to
hand over.

~~~
eatbitseveryday
You might be interested to listen to this talk at DEF CON. Chris Rock (the
speaker) tells you how to one could forge new identities, SSN, etc.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1lhGqNCZlA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1lhGqNCZlA)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12528544](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12528544)

------
always_good
My female Canadian friend was interrogated in a Canadian airport by an
American border agent because she made the unfortunate mistake of having a
connecting flight in the States on the way to visit me in Mexico.

The agent asked her if she was a "good girl" and then demanded access to her
phone's Facebook Messenger to see if she'd been offering or planning sex
services.

She of course complied. What else are you going to do? Cancel your plans and
stay home during your vacation leave?

It's a great job to have if you're a creep and/or resent women.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Please report this incident to US Customs and Border Patrol, as well as DHS.

[https://www.cbp.gov/contact](https://www.cbp.gov/contact)

[https://www.dhs.gov/department-white-pages](https://www.dhs.gov/department-
white-pages)

EDIT: Sorry to piggyback.

For your own security/privacy when traveling (I'm sorry, as a US citizen),
bring a dumb phone just for calling, and wipe your iPhone (if its an iPhone)
before transiting a customs checkpoint. Restore from iCloud when you're safely
out of the airport. If asked what the dumb phone is for, "I break my iPhone
all the time."

~~~
dingaling
> Restore from iCloud when you're safely out of the airport.

"Sir, your phone appears to have been reset. Please connect it to iCloud and
sync now".

If they can compel access to apps and social media why would iCloud et al be
any different?

~~~
toomuchtodo
Keep a separate sparse iCloud account if you don't think you have the soft
skills to work around that unlikely scenario.

~~~
sqeaky
Will it stay unlikely in the long term?

~~~
toomuchtodo
Who knows. You won't like my advice though: leave the country if the
surveillance state reaches a crescendo.

As a tech worker, I'm employable anywhere in the world, and can have my family
and all of our belongings out of the country in 12 hours. My heart goes out to
everyone who doesn't have such flexibility. It's not fair to those impacted
that these are the times we live in.

That's not to say we give up. We try to fix this fuckery until the very end.

------
edblarney
We should actually hope that they 'take it too far' and apply it broadly -
because the first day it went into force the blowback would be mesmerizingly
big.

There was some blowback from immigration and that affected relatively few.

But this will hit millions of people _every day_ with a huge WTF? It'll go to
every CEO and media person in America very quickly as a 'very material issue',
unlike some policies which companies support/resist for populist or political
reasons.

If they just do it to 'select people' ... then it would be something on blogs,
sometimes in the press yada yada but maybe not so mainstream.

------
herbturbo
Reminds me of a question on the US visa waiver form asking whether you are or
ever have been a Nazi. Because everybody knows that Nazis cannot lie, and
international terror organizations cannot create dummy social media accounts.

~~~
mhurron
Green card application includes a form that has that and more. Are you a
communist, have you been convicted of genocide, have you ever used a
prostitute ...

I really wish I had taken a picture of that form, the majority of questions
were idiotic.

~~~
sremani
Its not idiotic, its procedural. In the future, if they want to get you, they
can find something in that form.. like using a prostitute and throw the book
at you.

~~~
kwhitefoot
Doesn't make it any less idiotic.

------
imgabe
I don't think anyone who really wanted to get into the US would have a problem
handing over _A_ social media password. Whether that's a password for an
account specifically created to be reviewed by immigration authorities is
another matter entirely.

What makes DHS think they would be reviewing a real social media account?

I think this is not about reviewing social media accounts. This is about
giving DHS and CBP a pretense to deny entry to anyone they feel like, based on
gut feelings, prejudices, whatever.

~~~
js8
I would have a problem with it. And I would really want to get into US,
possibly, because I work for an American company. But it's not my job to
create fake social media accounts, sorry.

~~~
imgabe
I don't think filling out visa applications, in general, is anyone's _job_
(unless maybe you're a personal assistant for someone who travels
internationally a lot). It's not about what is and is not your job. If that's
what a country requires to allow you entry, and you want to enter, that's what
you do.

~~~
js8
I am just a normal programmer, not a spy. Visa application is acceptable (I
have done that in the past), forging social media accounts is not (I in fact I
do have FB account but God knows where the password is).

~~~
marcos123
I think the point they were making was that regardless of how you feel
emotionally about giving up specific information, it has no effect on whether
a country allows you to enter. So go ahead and do only what you feel is
"acceptable", just don't be surprised when you are turned away at the border
for not filling out all of the required documents.

------
logfromblammo
Welp, time for Facebook, Twitter, et al. to intentionally make themselves
inaccessible from locations/networks coincident with US ports of entry.

"To protect our produ^H^H^H^H^Hcustomers' privacy, we have decided to block
access to all accounts that we can ascertain within reasonable certainty to be
temporarily crossing an international border. We apologize for the
inconvenience, and service will be restored once you get further away from the
port of entry, or as soon as those in charge of US customs decide to stop
being asshats."

------
facetube
Finally, a real Catch-22: give the password, you violate the Facebook ToS and
potentially the CFAA as a result. Don't give the password, you get held by DHS
(and possibly sexually assaulted in a "strip search") as punishment before
being sent back at your expense.

America, I think our relationship is over.

------
eatbitseveryday
Give them something which resembles a password? How will they know?

Give them the password, then change it afterwards?

Have an alternative account used just for immigrations?

Claim you have no social media accounts, or deactivate them before entering
the country (we know FB doesn't delete, only deactivates)?

Change the name on the social media accounts?

~~~
jlarocco
Or do the right thing and tell them to go f __* themselves because it 's a
huge invasion of privacy and none of their business. It's unfortunate most
people won't have this option.

I've been trying to give the Trump administration a chance, but this is
getting more ridiculous and more embarrassing every day.

------
smileysteve
2 Factor Authentication (Facebook, Twitter, Instagram (through Facebook),
Google) really puts a damper on this and helps you remember that the U.S.
government (and esp leadership) is sorely behind when it comes to security

~~~
chopin
In which way would that help? It's access what is wanted, not the password. If
you have 2FA, other ways will be found.

I don't believe that there is a technical solution. This is a purely political
thing. If this becomes policy the US becomes entirely off-limits for me
although I don't have any social media account.

~~~
smileysteve
The problem I see is that I'll be able to share my password, but somebody
won't be able to log in. They'd come back and be confused. If I give them the
2 factor, the computer needs to be there, or they need to say it over radio,
and even if they say it over radio, it would be a race before it expires.

And yes, presumably, they could work with facebook or the NSA for a portal
that bypasses 2 factor, but then they don't need my password.

------
crystalmeph
Facebook, Twitter, etc. should shut down DHS' and other TLAs' Facebook and
Twitter pages if those organizations are purposefully violating the companies'
TOS, including the accounts of the leadership who presumably know about and
authorize these rules. Up to and including the official POTUS Twitter account
as well as @realdonaldtrump.

Just because the government can "legally" get access to anything they want
doesn't mean they get to live consequence-free.

------
nerfhammer
Now out of diplomatic reciprocity other countries can do it to us

~~~
moh_maya
Brazil already conducts enhanced scrutiny of Americans..

" American citizens are both photographed and fingerprinted as part of their
immigration clearance process. This is because Brazil practices diplomatic
reciprocity and processes American citizens entering Brazil the same way the
U.S. processes Brazilian citizens entering the United States. This is most
assuredly NOT the place to demonstrate any displeasure with this process. More
that a few Americans (including at least one airline pilot) have been
arrested, fined (thousands of dollars) and ejected from the country forever
for making an obscene gesture during this process."

[http://www.brazil-help.com/brazil_travel_tips.htm](http://www.brazil-
help.com/brazil_travel_tips.htm)

[http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2013/02/tourist-
visa...](http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2013/02/tourist-visas)

~~~
masonic
Note that this predates the Trump administration.

------
r00fus
Soon: People leaving the US will have to hand over social media credentials,
too.

Do you think they'll stop at "foreigners"?

------
megous
Will not having a social media presence be considered a red flag?

~~~
concernedmonkey
This is one of my worries. I had a rarely-used FB account for a few years, but
deleted it when I realized the privacy concerns.

No FB, twitter, IG, Gmail, LinkedIn, etc. Nothing. You can't find me through a
Google search except for my public-facing professional certifications (which
are required to be public-facing).

I wonder if one day this will get me on a list as some kind of "lone wolf"
even though I'm quite social (in the in-person sense).

------
makecheck
Perhaps all new policies should have to be applied first to legislators.

Want a password requirement? Fine, submit yours first, Congressman; we won't
abuse it, "promise".

Want inane questions and forms with high fees? Fine, Congressman, first you
must fill out every last form yourself (don't forget to have a new picture
taken, and thumbprints!). If you still think it's reasonable after all that,
we can talk.

~~~
sqeaky
While phrases like these might sound nice on the surface, they are entirely
unenforceable. How do you intend to make this happen?

------
drcongo
I had to renew my ESTA[1] recently and was somewhat surprised to find that the
form is now 6 pages instead of 6 fields, and asks for all sorts of weird stuff
like the name, address and phone number of someone on the United States who
can verify your identity.

[1] [https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/](https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/)

------
sqeaky
What would happen if Twitter or Facebook implemented a "Crossing the Border"
mode. When you set it up you get a fake password that logs into a fake version
of your account with plausible looking but innocuous content.

Then after some time, perhaps 72 hours this an all traces of it are erased.
That ought to last until some new legislation specifically prohibits it.

------
ommunist
Before going to the US change your keyboard to Tibetan, change the password
and give them your password in dzongkha notation written on a paper form. Make
sure it is at least 16 symbols long. འགོ་དང་པ་བཅའ་མར་གཏོགས་དོ་ཡོདཔ།

~~~
daxelrod
At which point they may just ask you to type in your password yourself.

~~~
ommunist
The only have instruction to ask for password. They cannot force you to do
something. You do not have to give them access to your password manager.

~~~
daxelrod
Sure, they can't force you to do something, but they can make your entry
dependent on your doing something, as long as you're not a citizen.

~~~
ommunist
But they cannot go against the instruction they have. I.e. they cannot force
you to defecate into your pants just to be sure you are not holding USB flash
drive there. Same applies here. They can ask for password, but they cannot
force you to actually enter it. Its illegal.

------
arrty88
give them a stage account?

