
Hallmarks of Soviet postwar building boom are finally meeting their demise - iamjeff
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/hallmarks-of-soviet-postwar-building-boom-finally-meeting-their-demise/2017/04/16/733682f8-1a2d-11e7-8598-9a99da559f9e_story.html
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int_19h
The real problem with this is the manner in which compensation is handled.
Rather than doing "equal-value" exchange for new property for people who are
affected, they're doing "equivalent" exchange. The former means that
replacement has the same market value. The latter means that replacement has
the same area and the same number of rooms - but it can be in a much nastier
location, worse commute etc.

On top of that, they've passed some new laws specifically to accelerate this
process, that skip some usual review stages before demolition, and curtail the
ability of affected citizens to contest either the decision itself, or the
amount of their compensation, in courts.

Simply put, as implemented, it's a blatant money grab. Many of these buildings
are in areas where real estate is very expensive now, and their residents in
many cases couldn't afford it if they were buying new; they own apartments
there because they were living in them back in USSR, and could privatize them
afterwards. Now these residents get kicked out, "compensated" with much
cheaper apartments further away from downtown (and their jobs), while new
expensive real estate development can be done in that place, and sold for full
market price.

~~~
restalis
So, the said people, who were given apartments for free, are now complaining
of their new apartments, given for free as well, most likely in much better
conditions compared to the time of initial free housing received from the
state? They complain that although the buildings that they actually own are in
a condition that worsened (value drop) over time and have to be demolished
(i.e. having a negative value) now, they demand to be compensated for some
plus of value to which they haven't contributed in any way!? Did I got this
right?

~~~
themihai
Well, nothing is free. They all pay them one way or another. It's just that
this time they don't hold enough value for the system so they get kicked out.
Simply said the wise guys got their properties. It's not really unusual in
communist/ex communist countries.

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wdrw
What the article doesn't mention is that Muscovites are right to be concerned
about "replacement" apartments offered by the government. There have been
plenty of cases across Russia where "replacement" apartments were sub-
standard, unlivable, or in some extreme cases existed only on paper. (In a
variety of circumstances, e.g. after homes were destroyed in the wildfires in
Khakassia). This is of course the consequence of corruption (which
unfortunately hits hardest on the poor, the elderly, the working class, etc).

Another interesting point that the article doesn't bring up is that
"khruschevka" apartments are not just limited to ex-Soviet countries - you can
find them in other ex-Soviet allies, most unexpectedly in Cuba!

~~~
sn41
What I heard in Moscow is that Khrushchev was impressed by the new-style
architecture in Cuba, and imported the style to Moscow. It sounded like the
reverse of what you say.

~~~
vasilia
Of course not. Khrushchev started mass construction of series buildings. That
means that all buildings in Chertanovo(Moscow) look like any other building in
Voronezh. They're really uncomfortable.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khrushchyovka](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khrushchyovka)

~~~
pavel_lishin
Wait, shit, did I grow up in one? Serious question - I always imagined them as
mostly built out of large concrete blocks, but all the examples there look
like slightly shorter versions of my family's apartment in Moscow:
[http://i.imgur.com/dL34whm.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/dL34whm.jpg)

It's not five stories, though.

~~~
kolokolo
That's "Plattenbau", a much later invention. Khruschevkas were built using
traditional technology onsite, plattenbau is prefabricated and assembled in a
fraction of time.

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patrickg_zill
The buildings are so similar (the walls and floors etc. were produced in a
factory and then shipped to the building site) that they serve as a plot point
in the movie "Irony of Fate" \- unknowingly landing in St. Petersburg, a
Muscovite directs the cabbie to take him to his street address - the
identically named street in St. P has an identical looking khruschevka - and
the key to his apartment in Moscow, works in that same numbered apartment in
St. Petersburg!

~~~
vxNsr
I watched that movie, thought it was hilarious but could never understand how
it could be possible. Now it all makes sense!

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jacquesm
"These are _my_ 32 square meters!"

If you're from Russia you probably get the reference, for everybody else:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Irony_of_Fate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Irony_of_Fate)

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douche
I was expecting fugly brutalist buildings like I have seen in East Berlin. In
fact, these buildings look nicer than many apartment buildings I have lived in
in the northeast US.

~~~
vasilia
Actually, only Stalin's era buildings are comfortable for living.
[https://cdn.cian.site/3/194/601/peredelkino-blizhnee-
moskva-...](https://cdn.cian.site/3/194/601/peredelkino-blizhnee-moskva-
jk-106491339-6.jpg) This is ordinary new buildings in Moscow. No trees, no
sun, everywhere wrong parked cars, and so on. It's like living in hell, but on
earth.

~~~
zachkatz
Salvageable: Build more buildings in the middle with dense ground floor
retail, and replace the cars and parking lots with parks, trams, woonerfs.

~~~
ashark
Biggest mistake to me looks like that there should have been fewer, shorter
buildings, closer together to achieve roughly the same overall density but
without all the for-cars space and weird not-parks. And yeah, ground-level
retail, which would be more feasible without all that space between them.

Probably built in an area where you have to commute by car, though, so
eliminating or reducing the car-owned space to make it more walkable,
attractive, and human-friendly is likely not feasible. Which means you'll also
have to drive to shop, and, and, and... further driving things apart with more
parking, driving surface, and buffers for cars, and removing all other options
as they become impossible (walking, biking) or impractically slow/expensive
(buses, trains) due to low density. Same disease most of the US has.

Kinda looks like hotel/condo developments along the US East and Gulf coasts,
actually.

~~~
et-al
Agreed. A big problem is the canyoning effect that happens when buildings rise
above 5-6 stories. The scale just becomes way off for humans to feel
comfortable and to walk.

~~~
tormeh
Have you been to Tokyo? I was walking through it and in one neighborhood
thought "These buildings are very short. I'll count the stories". There were 9
stories. The problem with high buildings isn't their height, but the absurd
amount of space Western city planners put around them. It's a residential
block, not an obelisk - it doesn't need a ginormous lawn around it.

~~~
et-al
I have; though admittedly it was 3 years ago, and I stayed with a friend in a
more residential part of the city (2-3 story buildings).

A large reason why planners leave open spaces around tall buildings are for
environmental reasons like shadow impact, and wind tunneling. Without the open
space, the canyoning effect would be much worse--look at most financial
district areas. So the taller the building, the more open space required.

If you've been to Berlin, I think their altbaus strike a fine balance between
housing a lot of people while still maintaining good street life. The flip-
side is that Berlin's streets are generally wider than most other cities.

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galfarragem
Soviet buildings and urban identity are not that bad.

I say this after having lived there, in several other places and by being an
architect. e.g. Is Australian / US low income housing better than Soviet?

 _So as somebody who lives in London, explain to me why Los Angeles always
looks so featureless, so lacking in any kind of urban identity I 'd expect to
find in a city? It always looks to me no so much as a city, but rather merely
some buildings that are connected by freeways._ [1] [2]

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14112031](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14112031)

[2] [http://www.walkinginla.com/](http://www.walkinginla.com/)

~~~
tzakrajs
They must have never been to rodeo, Hollywood, venice beach, or many many
other iconic LA places. Featureless my ass.

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ethbro
Curious question from someone with no idea to the answer: what's modern
Russia's attitude towards its own history?

I ask because the Chinese in recent decades seem to have decided that letting
Westerners steal their cultural treasures was undesirable, but there doesn't
seem to be huge government support for preservation either (yet?). This based
on what I saw at the Great Wall.

~~~
csydas
Like most places it varies depending on the person. I work in Russia and my
colleagues range across from having very deep seated patriotism and believing
in all things Russian to more moderate reviews of it. World War 2 is
exceptionally relevant nearly 70 years out, with the major cities having
monuments/statue after statue and so on.

Many of the major attractions in St. Petersburg and the surrounding areas are
historical and were rebuilt after the siege of Leningrad, though at great pain
due to difficulty in raising funds to do the restorations. The city thrives on
the more world renown cultural heritage (ballets for example), and many of the
old soviet performers are still draw huge crowds and fill arenas/auditoriums.
Many older Russians I've met look very fondly back at the USSR; younger
generations have a mixed attitude, many just echoing their parents'
sentiments, others enjoying modern Russia.

As far as preservation goes, I think it depends on just how crappy it is.
There's a few buildings downtown in St. Petersburg that are the last few that
were directly involved in the Siege of Leningrad (remnants of former
buildings) and there is discussion on what to do with them - knock'em down and
replace or restore as a historical site. It's prime area and the buildings
weren't of any importance, but at the same time, the history of WW2 is just
really tightly woven into pretty much everything, so there is some deadlock on
what to do. Much of SPB was rebuilt to "it's former glory" after the siege so
there is interest in restoring what was lost. But it also hasn't stopped
gigantic shopping malls from being installed downtown in these spaces, with
the exterior of course matching the surrounding architecture.

~~~
ido

        Many older Russians I've met look very fondly 
        back at the USSR; younger generations have a 
        mixed attitude, many just echoing their 
        parents' sentiments, others enjoying modern 
        Russia.
    

I have family in the Czech Republic and Slovakia and have often heard that
sentiment - that things weren't too bad back then. Hard to say how much of it
is due to viewing the past in rose tinted glasses or missing their youth
though.

~~~
csydas
My partner's mother explains it like this; while she's happy with modern
Russia, she misses when it was a super power. She recalls having enough month
at the end of each month for new outfits, apartment paid for (owned), plenty
of food, and a nice vacation every 3 months or so. She also says she likes
having a focused and goal oriented leader, and that democracy makes her head
spin since it seems like nothing ever gets done.

We (partner and I) haven't pressed much into how much she actually knows about
what was happening politically, but that's the perspective that a lot of other
older folk echo. The few older people I have seen pressed on it usually just
get stubborn about the bad parts of the USSR and don't want to talk about it.

~~~
ido
Czechoslovakia was never a super power, and communism was to an extent forced
upon it by the soviet union, but still people miss the security of the old
system: you would basically never get fired or worry about the basics like
clothes and shelter as long as you didn't rock the boat.

This seems to be the main point rather than democracy being hard to comprehend
or inefficient.

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lucaspiller
Here in Lithuania there have been quite a few projects started to renovate
these apartments. Here is a presentation (in English) from a couple of years
ago, at the time the works cost €166/sqm. From the outside the renovated
apartments look as good as any new apartments.

[http://www.lsta.lt/files/seminarai/070914_EFIEES/9_Nenius_pr...](http://www.lsta.lt/files/seminarai/070914_EFIEES/9_Nenius_presentation2.pdf)

There is a lot of new development going on here as well, but when it costs
€80k+ for a 40sqm studio it's unaffordable for most people (minimum wage is
€380/mo). New developments usually have underground parking which is a plus,
but developers are often selling the spaces at over €10k. It's a good time to
be a developer here :D

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tbihl
The different reactions from soon to be ex-residents are worth noting. It's
certainly a problem we have in the US. It seems a sure thing that the
apartments are quite dingy and faulty plumbing would be frustrating. I can't
imagine myself living in one now. But five years ago? Absolutely.

Wide ranges of age in apartment stock allow for more than one group to live in
the same place. For the elderly or the young who have no accumulated wealth,
crappy buildings like this can be wonderful. Not every apartment needs to be
something a doctor or lawyer would be happy to live in. Plus, if you can get
those different demographics living close to one another, you get the huge
benefits of varied patterns of life, where people are around during the day
and not all trying to use infrastructure and retail only during peak times.

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democracy
Not really, in the movie it is not one of these buildings, there was an
elevator and a large entrance hall - krushovkas don't have them.

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markvdb
I've lived in one for a few months. Most of them are really nice and
incredibly well designed actually.

The fact that this is happening mostly in Moscow hints at what others have
suggested this is: a new development money grab for land that has become
expensive...

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dsfyu404ed
Function has it's own beauty, why can't anyone take pride in that.

(I'm typing this from a "temporary" building that was supposed to be
demolished "in the next few years" since the 1960s)

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eps
Flagged as inaccessible.

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yummybits
Another propaganda piece by Jeff Bezos and Co. and the military industrial
complex of the US empire.

