
Ubuntu Removes the Amazon Web App - ashitlerferad
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2020/01/ubuntu-removes-the-amazon-web-app
======
jacquesm
The whole reason people use Ubuntu and other free OS's is _because_ they don't
come with a bunch of commercial crap & telemetry and whatever other vendors
foist on their captive audience. Going down that route is completely against
what FOSS should stand for.

~~~
simion314
> & telemetry

Telemetry and crash reports can be done right so you should not hate the
concept but the bad implementation.

First step is that it should all be optional and it should be disabled by
default or have it as an option you are forced to decider if yes or no. You
should also be informed when data is sent and what is sent and have the option
to deny. Like if app X crashes I send the crash report but if app Y crashes I
won't send it.

Also about telemetry if all power users turn it off then you can have
situations where developers will drop a feature because they don't use it and
there is no data to show that more then 12 people are using it.

~~~
oliwarner
You're saying that as if the point of the software is to support the software,
or report good numbers. It's not. The user should be the focus.

Opt-out and hard-coded systems immediately put you no the back foot. You make
people question _why?_ and _is it worth it?_ If all you've got it reporting
numbers of users, you can go do one. The risk of genuine private data leaking
out is not worth your marketing numbers _to me_.

The Amazon link was much more egregious though. You were sending all Dash
searches through to Amazon. This was unacceptable and poorly explained. I'm
sure some people liked it, and they honestly could have made the integration a
better trade for the user (play videos off Prime Video, etc), but only as an
opt-in feature where you can see the ramifications.

~~~
kevingadd
People need to understand that large scale software not having telemetry
borders on malpractice if it interacts with the internet. If your software is
crashing on a large scale - or worse, causing problems for other people's
servers or taking out users' computers - you need to know, and you need to fix
it fast. You can't just wait days or weeks to get enough complaints about it
from people savvy enough to file bug reports.

Look no further than how a recent Chrome update almost completely broke the
software for Citrix users. Their telemetry (somehow) was not tracking this so
it took days to get a fix because IT/ops people had to figure out that a
Chrome update caused the bug and then escalate through chromium bug reports.
Now imagine that happening _any time_ a crash or major bug makes it into
connected software...

For stuff that just runs offline, like Excel or whatever, it's super justified
to not want telemetry in it if that's the tradeoff users want.

Incidentally this is basically the reason why all the major browsers are on
rapid forced (unless you're in the enterprise) updates - the risk of having
users stay on older versions with security holes is just too high because it
ends up leading to massive botnets. I hate it, but hundreds of millions of
people use those apps.

~~~
wtetzner
What's wrong with the little popup that asks you if you want to report a
problem every time a crash happens? Is there really any problem with letting
the user choose on a case-by-case basis?

If it's happening so frequently that the popup becomes annoying, you've got
bigger problems.

~~~
blaser-waffle
Because people rarely click Yes, even if it's rare.

Plus it means little to the end user, and outside of HN, Slashdot, or other
tech forums, most folks don't even know what telemetry means in an OS context.
They click No, and move on.

~~~
labawi
Are you saying all of those users whose browsers are crashing on a large scale
are going to say no?

Also, are you implying software should send telemetry to the mothership
regardless of users' will?

There used to be a time software was tested and released finished.

------
correct_horse
I had assumed Amazon was paying for the Amazon "app" in Ubuntu (based on gut
feel) but it looks like it might have been part of a Canonical's web-y vision
for the Linux desktop future [1]. Does anyone know why the Amazon app existed
in the first place?

[https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/05/what-happened-ubuntu-
uni...](https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/05/what-happened-ubuntu-unity-web-
app-integration)

~~~
bregma
Well hey, I just happened to work on that stuff back when Canonical still had
its own desktop product.

The idea was to make a user's experience as great as possible. The desktop
design department all lived through their iPhones, and felt that most non-
techie computer users wanted the same experience. The whole desktop-phone
convergence thing was the prime directive, and having search be the prime
experience on desktop for a fully-integrated web experience was the way there.
There were many "scopes" plugged in that searched all kinds of things, and
among them was one that searched Amazon.

It didn't hurt that Canonical made a bit of income from affiliate referrals.
At least until Amazon found out. Then, it just became another web search
scope.

~~~
dehrmann
Was this around the same time Canonical had phone ambitions?

> non-techie computer users

MS made the same bet, but is this really your userbase?

~~~
_bxg1
Ubuntu has always tried to be (with mixed success) "Linux for everyone else".
At some points that just meant it was relatively easy to install and had a
pleasing UI. At other points they've really tried to push their way outside of
the primary userbase of Linux. Successful or not, I'm glad someone out there
is at least giving it a try. Imagine a world where desktop Linux isn't just
for nerds. Where more than one consumer-facing laptop comes with Linux pre-
installed, vetted, and actively supported.

------
guidedlight
While I get my torch lit, what's going on exactly?

~~~
Zhyl
Clarification to all: "drops" in this context means "gets rid of" rather than
"releases".

Ubuntu is _getting rid of_ affiliate links which it originally introduced to
generate revenue, but have proved controversial and by the sounds of it
unfruitful.

Ubuntu has also previously included Amazon search results in its start menu
search (known as 'lenses' or the 'HUD') which were also controversial, but
these were removed when Ubuntu switched to shipping the Gnome desktop by
default.

~~~
machinecoffee
Which then raises the question, how does - if at all - Ubuntu make money for
Canonical?

~~~
llarsson
Business support and private cloud offerings (as in: pay Canonical to come set
up a private cloud for you on machines you own).

Mindshare is important here, because otherwise, something like RedHat would
likely be the default choice for businesses.

~~~
blaser-waffle
> Mindshare is important here, because otherwise, something like RedHat would
> likely be the default choice for businesses.

I mean, with regards to Linux Enterprise stuff... it is. SuSE is the boss when
it comes to SAP, but otherwise everything lives on some flavor of Red Hat or
derivative; CentOS is everywhere.

In the Enterprise we only roll with stuff that is officially supported. Hiring
freezes, layoffs, and general work ebb-and-flow means we will need to rope in
help at some point, and while I may be a wiz at some CLI functions I'm not up
on what each patch is doing to the environment. Having a support contract to
lean on is a huge advantage.

Canonical was (is?) effectively trying to do this on the .deb side of the
house (as opposed to the .rpm side), though I don't know how successful they
were/are. I looked at interviewing w/ Canonical, but the Glassdoor reviews
painted a picture of an org that was having deep growing pains and internal
struggles.

------
fctorial
I don't understand the rage. It's a shortcut that opens amazon.com in a
browser. It queries location, for opening the local amazon site, but that
could be avoided by disabling geoclue.

~~~
Maakuth
The default was to submit all Unity launcher searches to Amazon to populate
the desktop search with items sold in Amazon.

~~~
m45t3r
This was the shortcut to Amazon website, not the search lens that already died
in the transition from Unity to Gnome.

[https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2020/01/ubuntu-removes-the-
amazo...](https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2020/01/ubuntu-removes-the-amazon-web-
app)

~~~
Maakuth
Thanks for the correction. Probably others have also confused these two
features.

------
vnpc1
Great. Getting rid of that app was one of the first things I would do on a
fresh Ubuntu installation.

------
Angostura
The ambiguous "drop" in this context really annoys me.

~~~
werber
Yeah, i automatically assumed they meant released.

~~~
JohnFen
I totally forgot that "drop" could mean "release". The usage of the word here
seemed entirely unambiguous to me.

~~~
Angostura
It was unambiguous to me too, until I started reading HN where it seemed to
consistently used to mean 'released' or 'shipped'.

------
aloknnikhil
The first thing I did after install was to remove all the launcher shortcuts
except for Firefox. This'll make it easier on new installs for me (and perhaps
most of us).

------
gdm85
I wonder whether they are making room for an Amazon competitor.

------
mPReDiToR
Eventually they drop the crapware foisted on us that we complained about when
they put it in.

Why won't they listen to us?

~~~
burundi_coffee
It'$ a my$tery, no one know$

~~~
Snetry
It'$ a my$tery we might never $olve

------
djsumdog
Have they ever released how much money they earned off those affiliate
searchers/clicks?

------
nimbius
and nothing of value was lost.

next up: remove the malware from MOTD.

------
whalesalad
Good riddance

------
mszcz
Hear, hear!

------
finchisko
wont be missed

