

Why shaken, not stirred? - julian37
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaken,_not_stirred#Why_shaken.2C_not_stirred.3F

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iuguy
As a self confessed Martini nut I can tell you two things, one of whom was
told to me by Allesandro, head barman at the Duke's Hotel, London where they
have a special Vesper Martini that's as close to the original as you can get.

In the old days people didn't mix vodka and gin in cocktails as they were much
stronger than they are now. In Casino Royale Bond acts a particularly flashy,
arrogant show-off type gambler. In the early 50s when the novel is set
(although please do bear in mind that the story was heavily influenced by
wartime events in the Naval Intelligence Division) people never mixed Gin and
Vodka in a Martini, and a Martini was always stirred with a special spoon to
avoid chipping the ice.

Bond, being the flashy type ordered his Martini with Vodka, which would then
need to be shaken in order to avoid the oilyness that came with the potato-
based vodkas of the time as per the wikipedia article. The act of it being
shaken would've aroused much interest from people who would have asked what
the gentleman was drinking, to which the response would seem incredible in a
kind of 'who does this guy think he is' type of way. The casino is supposed to
be a high brow csaino that will have seen better days, Bond was breaking
etiquette to show off how big his balls were and to attract Le Chiffre's
attention.

The other thing on a more technical point is that a modern vesper cannot be
made with the same ingredients as the original (as the formulas have changed).
In order to get something close you need a strong but fairly easy drinking
vodka (at least 43% ABV), a neutral Gin as close to 53% as possible, Lillet
Blanc (a white vermouth) and either a tincture of quinine or a dash of orange
bitters. My personal recommendation would be for Berry Bros No. 3 Dry London
Gin, Potocki Vodka, Lillet Blanc and Orange Angostura Bitters. Stirring takes
longer to cool the drink down to the right temperature (around 1-3 degrees C),
whereas shaking takes considerably less time, but you'll get ice particles in
the resulting drink. As the drink cools more water melts into the drink,
diluting the cocktail. Thus a shaken Martini is generally slightly stronger
than a stirred one. The oxygenation of the mix also gives the drink a
sharpness that you don't get in a stirred martini, but most people wouldn't be
able to tell the difference.

The TL;DR for all of this is, vespers should be shaken and not stirred, or
poured and layered (as per the Duke's bar), no other martini should be shaken
- unless it's pure Gin and Vermouth in which case it can be gently shaken to
waltz time.

~~~
panacea
I'd like to see the results of a blind taste test by persons who swear it
would make a difference to the taste.

I have my suspicions of what the outcome would be.

~~~
throw_away
I drink manhattans, which are like martinis made with burbon (or more
traditionally, rye), and I can certainly taste the difference between shaken
vs. stirred. shaken ones have a foam on them and taste muddled, rather than
crisp. I don't like specifying stirred when I order my drink because I think
it comes off as a bit pretentious, but when I see the bartender pulling the
shaker up above their shoulder, I'll usually stop him and quietly ask him to
please stir it instead.

~~~
iuguy
Actually a proper Manhattan is nothing like a modern Gin/Vodka Martini or a
classical 20th century Martini, but is similar in some respects to a Perfect
Martini due to the addition of sweet vermouth or the traditional Martinez,
believed to be made with sweet vermouth.

Having said that, I do like the odd Rob Roy. Some places shake deliberately to
get the froth as Manhattans tend to have a signature twist in posher places. I
think you're right to ask to stir instead for a classic Manhattan (especially
if you're using Canadian Club or Crown Royal).

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gordonguthrie
Best to avoid any connection with ice altogether by keeping your spirits in
the freezer.

There is nothing more dispiriting that paying over the odds for a cocktail and
watching the ghastly wannabe shaking it for half-an-hour with slush so he can
fill a 'large glass' with basically water.

Stir or shake is then a matter of choice as to how opalescent you want your
drink.

At hypernumbers we only serve cocktails from Schumann's American bar:
<http://astore.amazon.com/hypernumbersc-20/detail/1558598537>

In particular I would recommend a Claridge, stirred and not shaken.

If you are a sloshed geek you might find this engineering schematic of
cocktails amusing as well: <http://www.scribd.com/doc/27580670/Engineers-
Guide-to-Drinks>

~~~
iuguy
Really? I've never read American bar although I heard it leaves a lot of
common drinks out on the grounds that Schumann didn't like them. I'd also find
it strange that you'd limit yourself to drinks prepared for a mock-American
bar in Munich.

If you're going to limit what you do, doesn't it makes more sense to limit the
menu to IBA cocktails? (I don't know, never ran a bar, know a few who do
though).

Also why the Claridge recommendation? Any particular reason? I'm interested to
know.

~~~
gordonguthrie
> it leaves a lot of common drinks out on the grounds that Schumann didn't
> like them

Given that most 'cocktails' I have ever been served in bars are basically
'alcohol disguised as fruit juice' leaving them out is not a bad thing.
Essentially if a cocktail has a name like a porn film, don't drink it.

Given that he ran the Cocktail Bar at the Ritz in Paris I think "drinks
prepared for a mock-American bar in Munich" is a tad snippy. We Europeans have
been drinking strong drinks for a long time.

I recommend Claridges because I like them. Drink of champions.

~~~
iuguy
You're right about my comment, it was a bit snippy. Even so, I find your
reference to porno cocktails both understandable and snobbish at the same
time. Every time someone asks me to mix them a sex on the beach I die a little
inside. In fact I get that with mojitos (if they ask for Bacardi) and
Margheritas (with Jose Cuervo) too, so I can't exactly exclude myself from the
snobbish end.

Europeans I find don't have the monopoly on strong drinks - the Russians have
been outdoing the whole of Europe (including us Brits and Irish) on the mad
booze stakes for a while!

Fair enough that you recommend Claridges - I'll have to give it a try. Is it
acceptable to use Cointreau instead of something like Grand Marnier for this,
or does it have to be a specific triple sec?

------
jfb
I particularly like Fleming being prescribed _bourbon_ to cut back on his gin
consumption.

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sp332
Reminds me of Nick Charles from the movie _The Thin Man_ : "The important
thing is the rhythm. Always have rhythm in your shaking. Now a Manhattan you
shake to fox-trot time, a Bronx to two-step time, a dry martini you always
shake to waltz time." :-)

~~~
iuguy
That's precisely where I got the waltz thing from. Good find!

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protomyth
For the TV trivia inclined, there is an episode of West Wing (Stirred Season 3
#18) where the President lectures on it saying JB is ordering a weak drink.

Take with grain of salt, as the series also reports some stories like the
whole "NASA Pen/USSR Pencil" story as fact. Fiction tis fiction.

~~~
iuguy
This is definitely ficticious. In the Duke's they'll only serve you two
Vespers because of the strength of the drink.

------
tokipin
i had thought it was a manifestation of James Bond's personality: assuming the
ingredients were mixed on the spot, a stirred drink would have a uniform
flavor, while a shaken drink would have a more erratic 'spontaneous' flavor

