
What to Say To Someone Who is Sick - startupstella
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/12/fashion/what-to-say-to-someone-whos-sick-this-life.html?pagewanted=1&ref=general&src=me
======
araneae
I'd add "Everything happens for a reason" to the "nevers" list. My mother has
leukemia, and her cousin said that to her.

~~~
randall
Seriously +10000.

When my brother died, people would say that a lot to me. It's extremely common
in my culture (Mormonism) and I even believe it, but that's something that you
need to say to yourself, and not have others say to you. When other people say
it to you, it's like someone punched you in the face with what you should
believe, and it's not comforting, nor does it feel good in any respect.

~~~
nostromo
As an atheist I would be seriously upset if someone said that to me while I
was sick or after losing someone.

However, if you really believe it in your heart of hearts, then shouldn't it
be comforting? Similar to 'they're in a better place now' -- it seems like if
both people believe it's true, then it should be comforting to talk about.

~~~
randall
For me, I honestly can't see how that's supposed to comfort you. They're gone
from you now. It doesn't fucking matter if you're going to see them again,
because the hurt is all about the actual data that you currently have. I can't
wait to see my family again, but I still cry about them on a monthly basis, if
not more.

Maybe I'm a more "thinking" guy than other religious types, but for me,
religion is about understanding who I am now, how to deal with life now, how
to treat people better now, etc. It's not about some mysterious heaven / hell
thing that scares you into being a good person. Religion for me is separated
from mythology, though they do play into each other. (IE the nuts and bolts of
how a religion comes into being are important, but the teachings and purpose
of said religion are much more important.)

Given that perspective, with a catastrophic event, "now" will always suck,
without exception. You have to work through now in various ways. The new
reality is what you need help with, not perceiving the person in some sort of
blissful future state.

That's why things like "I love you", etc., play so much better for me. I need
a shoulder to cry on when I dream about my brother as if he's still fine and
was hiding. I need people to help support me through hard times, not people to
deflect reality and pretend like it's all going to be ok.

</rant>

~~~
kajecounterhack
I feel ya bro. I think other religious people often don't grasp as well the
fact that we're not robots -- emotions ask for comfort, not to be rationalized
away. Which is funny because people often think of religious people as
emotional.

~~~
bad_user
It's not that people saying dumb things are rational in any way, but more
about people feeling the need to say something, anything to make it better and
it kind of is an uncontrollable urge.

Think about this, even as a theist you feel the need to ask yourself, why did
your mother/brother/child had to die while others are still living, an
irrational question by all means, that begets dumb answers; but it's part of a
healthy mourning process and does help you get over it (IMHO).

I also don't think it's about religious people versus the others, as people
say dumb things regardless of their beliefs.

I think this is a time in which it pays off to be religious. For instance, I
do fall into agnosticism and question my religion quite frequently, but I just
can't be an atheist simply because I cannot accept that the people I love
(including my child for whom I'm capable to give my life if needed) will one
day go into non-existence, sometimes painfully. That's an idea I just can't
live with.

------
cstross
In the past eight months my father's had bowel cancer (surgery worked:
currently in remission) and my wife had uterine cancer (surgery worked:
hopefully a complete cure). And the cat went blind.

Anyone saying "everything happens for a reason" to me would probably wind up
with a black eye. (At the very least, they'd go on my personal do-not-call
list.)

Which is to say: you shouldn't say things to immediate relatives that you
shouldn't say to the patient, either.

~~~
dhimes
Like you, I had three "issues" (deaths in my case) close in time. I get a lot
of "Well, you know, things happen in threes." The last time someone said this
to me (yesterday, in fact) I replied, "Yes, I know. When I count them, I start
over every time I get to three. Things always happen in threes."

Went right over her head.

~~~
megrimlock
We all know things really happen in primes. It's numerology you can believe
in.

------
andrewvc
While definitely not cancer, I had severe acne back in high school (way, way
more than most people). There was a never-ending series of half-baked miracle
cures chucked my way by strangers.

In this age of the internet, anyone who has an illness is probably more of an
expert on it than most doctors are (save their specialists).

~~~
dmix
I was diagnosed with an inflammatory bowel disease and everyone would
constantly tell me all these foods and supplements that would cure my illness.

I had to constantly tell them there were numerous studies showing that diet
had no effect on the illness. But they ignored that because "it cured they're
friend".

~~~
albedoa
The Wikipedia article on ulcerative colitis mentions diet as both a possible
cause and treatment, which might add to their confusion. Maybe you could clean
up and clarify that section with the studies you know about. Maybe distinguish
treatments from cures.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treatment_of_ulcerative_colitis...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treatment_of_ulcerative_colitis#Dietary_modification)

~~~
dmix
From the wikipedia page:

"Although dietary modification may reduce the discomfort of a person with the
disease, ulcerative colitis is not thought to be caused by dietary factors."

Lets go through the three points listed:

> Lactose intolerance

This is common in people with colitis (I have this).

Not drinking milk makes the lactose intolerance symptoms go away
(nasuea/vomitting) that but does not reduce the actual colitis symptoms, just
the lactose intolerance symptoms.

> Patients with abdominal cramping or diarrhea should avoid fresh fruit, etc"

This is recommended during bad spouts to reduce the extremity. Eating these
foods does not cause or make a colitis flare ups go away. It makes makes one
of the symptoms slightly easier to deal with.

> The Specific Carbohydrate Diet has been promoted as helping with the
> symptoms of various auto-immune and gastrointestinal problems

"Following the death of Dr Haas in 1964, there have been no controlled studies
published of the SCD related to IBD." The last study being in 1928.

I've also spoken to two nutritionists and three doctors who have spent their
careers studying IBD and they reiterated that food is not a significant factor
in treating colitis.

~~~
matwood
The thing is, with diseases such as yours or others that are hard to find the
cause and/or cure/treat you have to become your own doctor. First, realize
when people offer up suggestions they are trying to help you. Second, while 3
doctors may have spent their career studying something it doesn't mean that a
specific diet or treatment will not help _you_.

A friend of mine has hives. He's seen a ton of doctors and none of them have
any clue what is causing them. Other than having a few hives almost all the
time he's perfectly healthy. So he has had to become his own doctor and at
least attempt a process of elimination with foods and other things that he
comes into contact with on a regular basis. At a minimum he gets some illusion
of control and is working a process that may find something.

~~~
dmix
I agree that they might have been just been trying to help, but it's important
accept that you might have limited knowledge of something when giving people
advice, especially medical advice.

My doctor has prescribed medication that has done a good job of treating the
illness so I haven't had to seek alternative remedies.

I'm actually starting a new startup centered around patients sharing their
experience with various treatments.

~~~
matwood
_I'm actually starting a new startup centered around patients sharing their
experience with various treatments._

That's a great idea! After helping my friend research I think the most
challenging part of what you're doing is getting people who are cured to talk
about their experiences. It's the old problem that those that are happy
without any problems are not the ones who post all day long :)

------
nsfmc
Back in april, The Awl published a list of don'ts[1] and then last week, some
dos[2], many of which conveniently appeared in this nyt piece.

[1]: [http://www.theawl.com/2011/04/some-awesome-things-to-say-
to-...](http://www.theawl.com/2011/04/some-awesome-things-to-say-to-a-cancer-
patient) [2]: [http://www.theawl.com/2011/06/actually-awesome-things-to-
say...](http://www.theawl.com/2011/06/actually-awesome-things-to-say-to-a-
cancer-patient)

~~~
panacea
Comparing the two, I'm inclined to go with coincidence.

------
estacado
If you have the time, offer the person taking care of the sick person to take
over the taking care for a few hours or days.

I took care of my mother when she was sick and none of my 3 older brothers
offered to take over the duty of caring for her. It was like my home was the
hospital for 3 months and not even one of them offered to take care of her for
one night. I developed this deep bitter feeling towards them during that time.

I understand if they have things to take care of but not even 1 night?! It
still pisses me off thinking back. For all I care, all of her children have an
equal responsibility to take care of her. It was like I had to put my life on
hold so that they can continue living their lives like nothing's happening.

~~~
megrimlock
That sounds really frustrating. Have you asked them why they didn't offer, in
a non-accusatory way that won't put them immediately on the defensive? They
may feel guilty and too ashamed to speak of it now. I can imagine the last
thing you want to do is go over this experience with them, but the fact
remains that you all hold a shared experience with your mother and there's
still the chance to connect with them over that, and honor her memory that
way.

Sorry, I don't mean to be presumptuous; I just think this kind of thing is so
rarely discussed until you're in the middle of it.

------
Killah911
I'm sorry but the writer comes off as being bitter. I'm pretty sure he doesn't
come off in the same complaining tone when he speaks to people (or he wouldn't
have as many people who'd care to bug him).

If people say or do awkward things, appreciate the fact that they made the
effort at all. If they're sending you "miracle cure" suggestions, it's
probably because they care enough to do so. These times are times in which you
see how your life affects others. If there are a lot of people calling,
checking in or being a little annoying, take solace in knowing your life has
had an effect on all these people, who care enough to be kind/awkward. I'd
much rather have that than not have it.

These Do's and Don'ts aren't for everyone, it may be for the writer, but it's
presumptuous to think this really applies to all people.

Simply put, "Do" show up. Knowing that you're there when you could be
elsewhere says a lot. Be a friend in times of need.

~~~
GiraffeNecktie
The point of the article was not to admonish people for their counter-
productive efforts, but to answer the question "What should and shouldn't you
say to someone whose sick?".

To his list of things NOT to say I would add your sentence "If people say or
do awkward things, appreciate the fact that they made the effort at all."

Well, no. I'm sick! Why should I "appreciate" your "efforts" if they do
nothing but add to my misery and pain.

------
orofino
Much - not all - of this boils down to the simple rule of being real with
someone. Don't flood them with niceties, if you want to be nice and have
something you want to say... say it. If you have to THINK too hard about what
you want to say, then perhaps you shouldn't say anything.

Honestly, I wish this would be applied in everyday conversation more often, it
would give people practice. I loathe small talk and would rather say nothing
than talk about the weather.

~~~
megrimlock
Consider that small talk can simply be a token gesture of openness to someone,
a chance to engage them and try to take the conversation to a more interesting
place. Few people can't jump straight to deep topics all the time and the
people who do can be annoying.

------
dkarl
I personally feel the same way the author does, but I suspect the people who
love handing out platitudes and ditzy suggestions might thrive on receiving
them, too. Do they suddenly get "real" and "grounded" just because they have a
serious illness, or do they remain the same sappy and naive person they were
before they got sick?

------
radioactive21
Everyone is different. Take the advice just as things to think about.

I know people who have been through hardship and they actually tell people to
hang around, to just talk, say anything. They prefer people say something to
not saying anything at all.

------
dazonic
Some great points here but just because this applied to this guy doesn't mean
every point is a catch-all for sick people.

 _2\. I SHOULD BE GOING NOW. You’ll never go wrong by uttering these five
words while visiting someone who’s sick._

I spent 11 months in hospital after a spinal cord injury and every time, I
_hated_ when my mates were about to leave. Having visitors can be the only
form of escapism.

Also, _"You look great"_. Maybe you do? I get this a lot. People say it behind
my back too, i.e. _"Hey I saw him the other day he's looking great"_ , which
feels awesome because in my mind I look like shit.

------
protomyth
If your the trusted advisor-type of the family (brother / sister, best
friend), make sure the business affairs are taken care of. Sometime the spouse
is too far gone (male or female) or just not experienced enough to deal. It
will help what comes next if the paperwork doesn't drift.

------
ja27
My favorite thing to say to someone who is sick is anything unrelated to their
illness. It's the same when a friend loses their parent or anyone close to
them. Once I get past the obligatory "let me know if I can do anything" I want
to be the friend they can talk about football, food, TV shows, whatever with.
They have plenty of people to talk to about their illness or loss. They don't
have many people that will let them leave that behind for an hour or two and
think about something different.

------
niels_olson
In your mind, please change "someone who is sick" to "someone who is sick or
struggling"

------
T_S_
The API for humans never changes but the spec is never complete. That's why
this kind of item is helpful.

------
dwynings
I would definitely recommend people check out the author's memoir on his
cancer diagnosis : [http://www.amazon.com/Council-Dads-Daughters-Illness-
ebook/d...](http://www.amazon.com/Council-Dads-Daughters-Illness-
ebook/dp/B003GFIW38/)

------
FiddlerClamp
Please never ask, "Do you mind if I pray for you?" I can't tell you how
offensive I find that, and how difficult I find to answer it without being
offensive in return.

"I'll pray for you" is okay, I guess, but don't expect a thank-you.

~~~
eropple
Or you could take it in the spirit in which it is intended, instead of making
it about your personal ideologies.

In plainer terms: you could choose not to be an asshole and take a kind word
for what it is.

~~~
FiddlerClamp
I find it presumptuous.

~~~
eropple
People expressing that they care in a way that, to them, makes sense is
"presumptuous"?

Again: you can choose to accept kindness in the spirit in which it was
intended, or you can be the Angry Atheist Asshole. The latter seems to be poor
form.

~~~
FiddlerClamp
Thank you for confirming my views. Best wishes.

------
perlgeek
If you can (and have a close relation to the sick person), offer frequent but
short visits.

Hospital and recovery at home are boring, but long visits are often
exhausting.

------
ahoyhere
Yes.

I came down with chronic fatigue syndrome / chronic mono after a second mono
flareup in late 2009. It's not cancer, but it's nasty and it doesn't go away,
and I have good days where I seem and feel normal, and bad days where I don't
even have the brainpower to watch stupid TV. It blows.

To this list, I'd add: Be willing to be the one doing all the work necessary
to keep the relationship alive when the other person is too weak and tired.

So many of my "friends" here in Vienna just disappeared when I got sick,
because they weren't willing to put in the effort when I couldn't. There's
nothing quite like being too sick to leave the apartment, and ALSO having
nobody who cares enough to visit you.

I'm sure if I told them this, they'd be absolutely aghast at their own
behavior and try to make amends -- they are not bad people or even _bad_
friends -- but now, knowing what I know, I wonder if it would be worth it for
me to say something.

Yet another big reason I'm moving back to the US.

~~~
Meai
I'm from Austria and I mention this solely because you felt the need to
mention your location. Still please take this as an opinion of one guy alone
(!):

Here is what I think: Friendships are always give+take. When you are sick, you
expect them to give a lot. Did you really do so much for them while you were
healthy? Because in my opinion only a sociopath wouldn't offer to help you if
you had helped him greatly in the past. Or do you rather expect them to help
you because it's just what they "should" do. And what exactly do you want them
to do anyway? Just mindless visits? So you expect pity? Are you in a habit of
forcing your friends through awkardness? Because I'd expect my friends to not
expect me to visit them for elusive reasons like "emotional support". I would
never expect a friend to visit me when I'm sick, because I know that I'll be
another person. They are not friends with a guy who has pains, drools and is
in agony. I wouldn't think of demanding friendship like you do.

~~~
hnhg
A sense of empathy with my friend's suffering would compel me to visit them.
It's not part of a quid pro quo transaction.

~~~
Meai
Look, I'm a "hobby philosopher", so I hope you'll forgive me when I say that
you are wrong. Does your sense of empathy extend to random people on the
street? 'Yeah, sometimes' you say. Okay, but it has bounds right? You don't
help every single guy with all your power. So what are these bounds? They are
the result of give+take, which you can call "quid pro quo" transaction or not,
however way you feel most comfortable.

~~~
Killah911
I only answer as another "hobby philosopher", so please take it in that spirit
:) I would argue that just by the fact that you know someone, and know them to
be a "decent" person, you'd feel empathy (depending on your personality type
also). Part of the reason you don't go "all out" for everyone, is because
thankfully you don't "know" everyone.

I really think boiling it down to a simple "give-take" relationship is
oversimplifying the dynamics. It goes far beyond that.

A person may visit someone who is sick out of religious convictions, or
because being generous makes them feel good, same reason you have many people
who volunteer or help push someone's stalled car on the road. Others may be do
so to simply pay it forward, maybe to help cultivate a relationship, or with
unspoken expectations of the favor being returned had the tables been turned.
Yet, others might just be doing it because they have something to gain from
the sick/dying person or somehow feel bound/compelled to do so... I personally
would value visiting a friend who it sick and does not have a lot of
family/friends to care for them vs one who has a lot of people to care for
them, I'd probably leave the latter alone until they recover, or contact a
close family member to avail myself should the need arise.

~~~
Meai
Oh yes, life is not so easy! Analogy: If my doctor told me that the human body
is easy to understand, I'd look for the door :)

For sake of getting anywhere in an argument, I try to abstract things down a
lot but at the same time keeping them valid for discussion. I felt that the
addition of things like cultural bias would only detract from the message that
everything boils down to give+take, (and pertaining to this particular
discussing: that friends only go so far until there is nothing to take
anymore.)

Why? Because cultural bias, upbringing and personal choice are things that
merely move the give+take 'thresholds'. What I mean, is that you'll still get
something out of everything you do. In my opinion, people always act in their
own interest, even though their interest may largely be in favor of others.

An extreme example to illustrate the point that everything is give+take: Take
for example Warren Buffet donating billions of dollars: You could say that
this has hardly any "take" for him. But why do it if there was no take at all
for him? I mean _no_ take at all. Not even a passing feeling of pride or
accomplishment. You will see that, yes of course, he will have some kind of
reward for donating these immense amounts of money. There is always a take :)

~~~
ahoyhere
Lots of people are nice to others because they enjoy being a good person. I
know my American friends would have been over, cooking me meals and making
sure I didn't go stircrazy, and trying to cheer me up. I know because I've
experienced it. They volunteered to be up at crazy hours so I could text them
when I was having surgery and feeling bad... in Austria. They sent me funny
pictures and videos, even physical goodies, to cheer me up from over the
ocean. I've had American friends volunteer to take me to the emergency room at
midnight on a work night, and stay with me the whole time, even though it was
5am and clear I was not in any danger and I told them they should leave. And
then two other friends pretended to be angry that I didn't call THEM in the
middle of the night to let them know what was going on. I said, "You'd really
want me to wake you up?" and they said "YES!"

Why? Because they love me and they're good people. I love them, too.

Austrians make terrible friends, in my experience, because they think like
you.

They are so terrified of "losing" something by being connected to people -- so
absolutely horrified at the idea that they might be "taken advantage of" --
they they shut themselves down and make no serious connections at all, living
a life with only fairweather friends and no one they can truly trust to stand
by them.

It's really incredibly sad.

~~~
Meai
You truly learned nothing from this exchange. These are simply two different
cultures and you grew up in yours, and therefore you think only yours is
valid. How mature is that?

Likewise I could claim Americans are terrible friends, because they get upset
about the tiniest things, are constantly in your face, wasting time with
trivialities and use laughter inflationary as a social tool instead of its
actual meaning.

 _But I don't_ , because that would be childish. Instead I view them as
quirky, lively people who embrace the whole world as their home (in a
positively, naive way) Your implicit claim that Austria is 'worse' than
America is merely a kneejerk reaction to a different culture. You are even
equating your personal definition of "nice" with being a good person,
insinuating Austrians aren't good people.

Grow up, different people are different.

------
johnx123
Can't agree everything. Every patient is different, some wants to be discussed
about their health and some wants a break from his preoccupied mind about
health.

