
David Cameron announces resignation - matheusalmeida
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/david-cameron-resigns-after-uk-votes-to-leave-european-union
======
geff82
He'll go down in history as one of the worst leaders the UK ever had. Which he
already was before yesterday. By the way, if he let the people decide on such
a super topic as leave/remain in the EU, why does he not let his people vote
on whether they want total surveillance or not? If they want a police state?
Why can't they decide on stuff that affects their daily lives in a potential
negative way? Or will they ignore the voice of the voters, Boaty McBoatface-
style?

~~~
CommanderData
This government is for austerity and cutting public services and expenditure.
He is no less a reflection of his party.

Next PM's in line: Theresa May: Pro snoopers (spying) charter. I don't like
the term police state but her actions are worryingly in line.

Boris Johnson? A very charismatic idiot. His selling point being the golden
coloured hairy creature that has permanently occupied his scalp.

Yes. We have a great line up of next potential PM's for Britain.

~~~
darkr
> Boris Johnson? A very charismatic idiot.

His persona is that of a charismatic bumbling idiot, but idiot he is not.
Underneath this persona lies a highly intelligent, disingenuous, manipulative
and calculating operator.

I genuinely think that he didn't believe in Brexit; rather he saw a potential
route into number 10 and took a gamble on it.

~~~
Kurtz79
"he saw a potential route into number 10 and took a gamble on it."

The funny thing is that basically Cameron used a similar gamble to be elected.

Push Brexit referendum, and hope for a Remain outcome.

I mean, it would be funny if the well-being of millions of people would not be
impacted by all this gambling.

~~~
mc32
The main thing is that regardless of who pushed for or against the UK exiting
the EU the voters voted to leave.

Neither Boris nor David made a unilateral decision. The people took action and
voted against the EU. Lots of people are in shock but should not be.

~~~
mstade
Well, lots of people also voted _for_ the EU – it was far from unanimous after
all.

~~~
mc32
So when the votes align with the elites, do you see similar hand wringing? Oh,
but so many people voted against our position... Not very likely.

------
lossolo
I just watched his talk. He lost. He fought that he can avoid crack in his
party and anti-eu members will be pleased if he make this move - referendum.
Then he thought he will get what he wants from EU and then all citizens will
vote remain. He was wrong on all this points. He is the biggest looser in this
situation and he really knows it.

~~~
sz4kerto
> He is the biggest looser in this situation

Except he isn't, really -- he loses his political position, but he and his
family won't be existentially affected by what's going to happen, as opposed
to probably tens of millions of people all around Europe.

~~~
dragonmum
The EU's common agricultural policy was actively favoring and subsidizing
large EU based multinationals and blocking entry into the market by small
scale farmers and producers in developing countries. Seems to me like a huge
new market called "the UK" just opened up for genuine and fair trade. So
overall, this is probably good for hundreds of millions of people around the
world.

~~~
YeGoblynQueenne
At last UK farmers can sell their top quality fruit and vegetables to the rest
of the world.

~~~
StrangeWhiff
Not without trade agreements that may take years to negotiate.

Also, UK farmers get over half their income from EU subsidies. So many of them
are going to go bankrupt unless they get bailed out/supported by the
government.

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11967049/Brexit...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11967049/Brexit-
is-a-life-or-death-matter-for-Britains-farmers.html)

~~~
YeGoblynQueenne
Sorry, I thought my sarcasm was evident. To anyone who's tasted UK-grown fruit
and veg, it must be.

------
ajuc
I find it very amusing that England stopped Scotland from leaving (among other
arguments) by saying "You would have to enter EU again", and then left EU the
next year :)

~~~
sleepychu
I can assure you that the Scots don't find that amusing at all P:

~~~
antod
Well you do get to use all of their own arguments/rationalisations against
them next time around.

------
tkyjonathan
Its his fault we're here. His policies made inequality in the UK so high that
people got angry and started blaming the EU and mainly migrants.

~~~
Ntrails
Nothing to do with that. He threw out the referendum promise in order to
secure power, and then failed to get Europe to agree to the headline changes
which would easily have secured the vote in his "renegotiation".

"Austerity" is not to blame for this. You can argue EU recalcitrance played a
part, as did labour party weakness, but it's on him. His legacy will be this
vote, this loss, and his failure to see through the consequences of his
actions.

~~~
CommanderData
> "Austerity" is not to blame for this.

Austerity would be to blame for this - it contributed to people being more
anti-immigrant, though indirectly.

Him calling the referendum, the outcome - are related to his parties policies
without isolation.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
We haven't had austerity in the UK, we have had nothing like what Spain or
Greece have had to deal with.

~~~
CommanderData
Comparing UK with Spain or Greece? The UK was the fifth largest economy in the
world. I don't your comparison to Greece is a fair, to say the least.

We've had an onslaught of austerity measures and public cuts too many to list
in a sitting.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
Yet unemployment is only 5.6%.

~~~
bkor
In Netherlands they changed the way unemployment is measured. Was something
similar done in UK? The change it Netherlands makes me not trust easy figures
anymore.

Further, seems in UK there's quite a big difference between working and
actually having enough to live comfortably. A lot rely on support or barely
can afford anything.

Anyway, that is my impression and don't mind being proved wrong.

~~~
Ntrails
"Further, seems in UK there's quite a big difference between working and
actually having enough to live comfortably. A lot rely on support or barely
can afford anything."

I mean, working is not the same as working full time. I couldn't live on 16
hours a week at minimum wage. I could live on full time minimum wage (though
not easily if I were still London based). There _are_ benefits and support
available to working people, but not in the sense that it's a bad thing.

Unemployment only counts people actively looking and not employed at all - but
the ONS publishes all those definitions. There hasn't been any new/recent
fiddles that I recall.

------
fahrradflucht
In my opinion, the most interesting thing he said in that speech is that he
doesn't plan to trigger article 50 immediately.

That will be controversial in both, the EU and Britain I think.

~~~
gonvaled
If the UK starts muddling through, the EU should firmly act and suspend UK
membership: we can not allow uncertainty, and a future ex-member abusing the
good will of the rest of the EU.

Cameron promised to trigger article 50 immediately: if he does not, we should
force him to.

~~~
youngtaff
There is no process for the EU to suspend the UK or for the EU to trigger
article 50

~~~
gonvaled
You are not suggesting that the UK leaving the EU will be done on UK terms
only, do you? Like "we get that funding chunk and then we leave" or "we attend
that EU parliament session and then we leave" or "we don't say how or when,
we'll just leave, whenever it suits us, and please don't disturb because I am
too busy doing important things which you can not hope to comprehend". How
long do you think the EU will wait for the princess to make up her mind?

I do not know the exact mechanisms by which the EU can force the UK out, but
one thing I know: we can not allow us the luxury of keeping the enemy inside
the gates.

I for one hope this is done with asap. Out is out.

~~~
youngtaff
The UK gets to decide when they trigger the process but the 'official' process
can't start until the UK triggers it.

The referendum isn't actually legally binding so in theory article 50 may
never get triggered, though as the vote is a reaction against politicians,
that would be political suicide.

The final terms will be the result of negotiation and I don't think the UK
actually has a good position.

The referendum was always a trap, if UK votes out we're probably screwed, if
we voted in it becomes a signal for the political elites for even more
political integration (and there seems limited support for that amongst the
actual people of Europe)

Got to remember the politicians of the EU don't work for the people - witness
how they shafted the people of Greece to save German and French banks, how
TTIP is being negotiated in secret and hands more power to corporations etc.

~~~
gonvaled
> The UK gets to decide when they trigger the process but the 'official'
> process can't start until the UK triggers it.

If the UK spends the next 15 years making trouble in the EU, blocking a Brexit
agreement, not taking decisions, and basically torpedoing the functioning of
the EU, I hope the EU is going to do something about it.

The UK was bad enough for the EU while it was in, let's not allow it to
destroy the rest of the EU while it is leaving.

There are mechanism to force the UK out now. One would be to marginalize them
from any decision taking, any negotiation, and meeting that the EU
participates in, internally or with partners. I do not know the exact
mechanisms that the EU can use for this, but I know how I would deal with this
in my partnerships: "sorry, I forgot to call you!" "Oh, I thought you were in
holidays!" "Did you really not receive that memo? So sorry!" and the like. If
the UK starts playing dirty, we should too.

Out is out: we do not want the UK in the EU anymore. Please pack and leave.

~~~
dragonwriter
> If the UK spends the next 15 years making trouble in the EU, blocking a
> Brexit agreement

If they don't trigger Article 50, they have exactly the same role in the EU as
if they never chose to leave (except that they lose the special concessions
that they _just got approved_ which were contingent on a "Remain" result in
the referendum, which, AFAICT, is the only actual _legal_ effect of
referendum.)

Once they trigger Article 50, they are out in 2 years (barring an agreement to
extend the process.) The only purpose of an exit agreement is to provide an
_alternative_ to the default exit terms, which would, e.g., leave trade
relations between Britain and the EU reverting to WTO rules.

~~~
gonvaled
I doubt it. They have legally the same rights and obligations, but in practice
I do not see the rest of the EU willing to work with the UK representatives.
They will get the minimum legally required, and will have to satisfy the
maximum of their legal obligations. British representatives will not be very
popular in the european institutions now (not that they were very popular to
start with)

------
jkelsey
Wow. A new Prime Minister and a new President within about a month of each
other. At this point though, it doesn't seem like the former will matter much
anymore.

I hope this shit hole of a year turns around for the second half.

~~~
PietdeVries
And so it begins...

If a Brexit-fanatic like Boris somehow gets hold of the UK, and Trump does the
same in the US, we'll be looking back at "those good old days prior to June
2016" in no time... The world-economy will get more introvert, like the "me
first" kids at school who don't care about the rest. And that will be the fuel
of the upcoming unrest in the rest of the world...

~~~
simonbarker87
I really don't think Boris cared one way of the other (Remain/Leave), he just
saw a way to position himself for PM and took it.

~~~
Ntrails
Given that he's been writing against the EU for 15 years or more, that's
pretty unlikely.

~~~
zimpenfish
[http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2012/dec/04/boris-j...](http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2012/dec/04/boris-
johnson-europe-speech-live-blog#block-50bdd0ee95cb52bb16ba918b)

> He said that in such a referendum he would campaign for Britain to stay in.
> As a journalist in Brussels, he "migrated from being quite enthusiastic
> about Europe to being really very sceptical". But whenever he considered the
> prospect of Britain leaving, he always came down "narrowly" in favour of
> Britain staying in.

[http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-
johnson-...](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-
accused-of-breathtaking-hypocrisy-over-eu-referendum-flip-flop-a7020396.html)

> Boris has turned his back on his long-held belief in the peace and
> prosperity the EU has brought but it’s hardly surprising, given that just
> months ago he was still telling friends he is not an Outer.

etc.etc.etc. He's a political opportunist who follows whichever wind will get
him most power. Much like Cameron except that backfired spectacularly.

~~~
Ntrails
I think the former is a fairly accurate description of his position. I
remember as a teenager reading his articles from Brussels and the slow slide
into the ever more ridiculous facets of the political sphere there, and his
frustration with a lot of what he saw.

Thinking in 2012 that the EU is marginally better than the alternative is not
exactly incongruous with changing your mind - especially given the past 4
years of the Euro project?

Most importantly, prior to Cameron "renegotiating", Boris took a position of
not saying out until he saw the final deal. Again, this is not unreasonable.
He was not an Outer - just waiting to see whether Cameron would deliver what
he promised (and he didn't).

I have seen people try to spin Boris as just an opportunist but I'm not sold.
His ~non fiction~ book about Churchill is not something I'm taking as a
primary source on his views...

------
pyb
What has he ever done, other than reletentlessy dividing his country, every
way he could, for all of his 6 years ?

~~~
edent
Equal Marriage was a good move which was broadly supported. Other than that,
not much.

~~~
verbify
I think 'religion is the opium of the people' cuts both ways. Politicians will
push through popular socio-economic policies (e.g. gay marriage) in order to
be able to get enough support to also push through their unpopular economic
policies.

------
chappi42
Maybe the EU as is should also resign and reappear in a better shape.

Europe will stay Europe and I don't think everything will shatter now.

On the contrary, isn't it a nice demonstration of democracy and treaties can
be re-negotiated. I'm quite sure that many people are not happy with the
current EU arrangement and would vote to leave (if they could and/or if they
weren't so much bound by economic benefits as e.g. Gibraltar). An EU reform is
needed and I hope this Brexit serves as another signal that it is really about
time to speak honestly about 'some issues' and try to find solutions for them.

~~~
Spearchucker
" _...isn 't it a nice demonstration of democracy and treaties can be re-
negotiated..._"

You understand how this works, right? As part of the EU the UK has bartering
clout. As an independent little island with a huge trade deficit and a weak £
it has nothing. So a trade deal with China, for instance, would end with China
trading in the UK, and the UK waiting 15 years before trading in China.

There is hyperbole in what I'm saying, which is probably a result of the
disappointing outcome of the referendum, but... the UK as a trading partner
has nothing to offer anyone.

~~~
sievebrain
The idea of "clout" is an incorrect belief that is not supported by the data:

[http://www.civitas.org.uk/press/no-benefit-for-uk-trade-
from...](http://www.civitas.org.uk/press/no-benefit-for-uk-trade-from-eu-
collective-clout)

~~~
Spearchucker
Thanks for that, interesting observations. Still sceptical though (not saying
you're wrong), given the UK huge trade deficit and now a weak £.

~~~
msabalau
A weak pound makes british products more affordable to foreign consumers,which
should partially mitigate the trade deficit.

~~~
dragonwriter
> A weak pound makes british products more affordable to foreign consumers

And foreign goods less affordable to British consumers...

> which should partially mitigate the trade deficit.

Indeed.

------
DanielBMarkham
For those of us who do not live in GB, could somebody ELI5 about how these
things work? Does the Prime Minister just hang out until he decides he's had
enough?

(Yes, I know I could Wiki it. For others browsing the thread, however, 2-5
sentences on how it all works would be useful.)

~~~
alexbilbie
It's slightly different depending on the party but essentially the Prime
Minister can resign at any time.

In terms of the Conservative Party they don't elect a deputy leader who would
take over hence the internal party election for a new Prime Minister in
October.

The Conservative Party also have processes to sacrifice their party leader
(via the 1922 Committee) which allows the parliamentary MPs to call for a vote
of no confidence in the leader and decide new candidates. This is how Margaret
Thatcher was forced out.

~~~
DanielBMarkham
This is actually quite interesting. I knew there was a parliamentary system,
but I didn't know the intricacies.

So each party, as long as it holds the majority, can do whatever it likes to
pick a PM?

~~~
nicky0
Yep. The PM is actually appointed by the Queen. But they have to demonstrate
that they have enough support in parliament to form a working government. In
practice this means that whatever party holds the majority gets to pick the
PM. If there is no party with an overall majority (as in 2010) then two or
more parties have to reach a coalition agreement.

------
vijayr
Can someone explain what happens next? Will UK really leave the EU? If yes,
how long will it take? Will EU ask them to leave or just wait for UK to
initiate the process?

~~~
dragonwriter
> Can someone explain what happens next?

People can guess, but there's a lot of uncertainty on some points.

> Will UK really leave the EU?

Most likely, as I understand it, the next British government will formally
start the (at least) two year process of exiting the EU. In the short term,
they are still in the EU.

> Will EU ask them to leave or just wait for UK to initiate the process?

As I understand, under the applicable treaty, the UK has to formally initiate
the withdrawal process. The EU has asked them to do so without delay, which is
what Cameron had promised before the vote, but Cameron has since said that he
plans to leave that to the next PM.

~~~
vijayr
_Cameron has since said that he plans to leave that to the next PM._

So he leaves a big mess to his successor?

~~~
dragonwriter
> So he leaves a big mess to his successor?

I'm not a fan of Cameron (also, not British and don't have a particularly
strong investment in this, though I tend to think Brexit was a bad idea for
all involved), but I think there is a fair case to be made that leaving it to
the next PM to trigger Article 50 is the right thing to do (promising an
immediate trigger -- which was a scare tactic for the vote -- was a bad move.)
Here's why: Article 50 provides a 2-year timeline for exit, and provides tht
an exit agreement which modifies the default terms takes unanimous approval of
the EU members. You want, as much as possible, to have continuous government
with a clear mandate during that process so that you can effectively negotiate
that agreement and not get stuck with the default terms.

~~~
nicolapede
Also, what if the new PM has to pass through general elections? You might end
up having someone which promises to trigger article 50 and someone who does
not. A second referendum.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Also, what if the new PM has to pass through general elections?

That _shouldn 't_ be necessary (the Conservatives have an outright majority,
so their new leader should be able to form a government), but, yeah, it would
significantly complicate things (especially if Cameron had triggered Article
50 before leaving.)

------
xedarius
Throughout the campaign he has been claiming the UK are not quitters, first
thing he does, is quit!

------
univalent
Outsmarted himself and fucked up royally. Time to go.

------
gonzo41
So today Britain cripples it own economy for nothing. But hey, no more
Cameron!. I call it evens.

~~~
simonswords82
There has been so much scaremongering in the UK press that the markets are now
reacting accordingly.

Ultimately trade deals are important not just to the UK but to the countries
it trades with. People in power will make deals happen because they have to.

There's going to be some short term pain - but ultimately everything will
balance out.

~~~
creshal
> Ultimately trade deals are important not just to the UK but to the countries
> it trades with. People in power will make deals happen because they have to.

It's wishful thinking that the deals will be as favourable to the UK, with its
now much smaller leverage.

~~~
simonswords82
I never said anything about the deals with the EU being as favourable.

------
YeGoblynQueenne
Every cloud has a silver lining.

~~~
lunchTime42
That silver lining is the sun waiting to come back to give you skin-cancer.

~~~
YeGoblynQueenne
Classy.

------
return0
This thread is political. Unlike the other thread about the referendum , it
has derailed to name-calling.

~~~
dredmorbius
The level of discourse is poor.

That said, what happens in a global financial center almost certainly _will_
have impacts on Silicon Valley and the startup environment.

------
venomsnake
As if the pound needed more beating today. Oh well he was not at the level of
Disraeli, Churchill or Thatcher. He made that mess and didn't even had the
balls to pull the trigger of brexit himself.

All hail Boris Johnson. Crazy hairdos on top of influential Anglo Saxon
countries is bull market it seems.

We will live in interesting times.

~~~
jacquesm
> Crazy hairdos on top of influential Anglo Saxon countries is bull market it
> seems.

Let's hope NL will manage to avoid that.

In a way the 'brexit' may be the strongest shot in the arm for the rest of
European unity if the consequences are quick and harsh enough. That would be a
real pity for the people in the UK, but it may still have some positive
effect.

And there is always a way back.

For now, this is a pretty black day in history.

~~~
venomsnake
I am optimistic ... The EU has leverage. And the revanche towards UK may unite
the continent.

Also the Anglo-Saxon worldview ... and their laizes faire approach is
incompatible with the continental worldview. I honestly believe that UK
impeded European unity with their "special" status inside.

If the EU plays its cards correctly we may remove the U from UK, take in the
parts, and then include England and Whales ... on our terms. Realpolitik is
fun thing to play.

~~~
jacquesm
> Realpolitik is fun thing to play.

I don't agree with that. You're assuming we know the outcome and with shifts
like these the real results won't be in for generations to come.

