
Ask HN: Affordable, online university for getting a degree to quit programming? - throwaway-32
I&#x27;m a 32 years old self-taught programmer who has a strong resume and impressing experience, found jobs all over the world until today easily. But; I don&#x27;t enjoy building software anymore. I do it just for bringing home money, I got one kid to take care of.<p>I enjoy reading books and learning a lot, so wouldn&#x27;t mind working hard to start something new from scratch.<p>Getting a degree in Business is an option in my mind. I wonder if that would be a multiplier on top of my programming experience. I&#x27;m open for suggestions for studying something else, would be open to hear some ideas.<p>I found out that Arizona State University has a remote program, but it costs about 30k. I can&#x27;t afford that. It&#x27;s way above my budget.<p>Do you know any universities that has an affordable bachelors degree program ?<p>I live in Europe but it can be everywhere in the world. It&#x27;d be great if it&#x27;s in US, so I can also improve my English along the way :)
======
memset
I think you may benefit from thinking more concretely about what you want to
do. It is one thing to say "not-programming" \- which is very broad, so broad
that it is not terribly helpful - and quite another to say "I'd like to make a
living as a jazz musician" or "a biology researcher" or any number of other
things. Start there: what do you want to run _towards_ , rather than what you
are running _away_ from.

Second, there are many possible career paths which are adjacent to
programming, and which would use your technical skills, but not as part of
your day-to-day. This could be project management, product management,
technical writing, or even engineering people management. As before, if you
have an idea of a _specific_ function in your organization that you would find
interesting, and which would make use of your talents as a programmer, then
this may be an easier route than starting from scratch.

When it comes to any of these functions, my advice would be to: (1) Find small
ways to demonstrate your interest in aptitude for those skills. For example,
work with your product manager to write a product brief ("Hey, can I take a
crack at it and ask for your feedback? I'd love to learn how to do this kind
of thing.") And, (2) if you are able, express to your current manager that
you'd be interested in learning additional skills and possibly making a -
deliberate, smooth - career transition.

If you pursue a degree - be it in business, or any other field - realize that
you would likely be competing for jobs with others who have 10 years of
experience in the field, rather than new college hires. This is not an
impossible thing! But this does require a strong narrative, and your ability
to articulate why you made a career change and what specifically you can offer
based on your previous work experience in the unrelated field.

My overall point would be to really take some time to sketch out what you
would want to do (in the affirmative), why it is interesting to you, and how
specifically (not in a hand-wavy sense, but "here is a specific task that I
could do more effectively and here is why") your current skills would have a
multiplier effect on your new path.

Best of luck to you!

~~~
perl4ever
"(2) if you are able, express to your current manager that you'd be interested
in learning additional skills and possibly making a - deliberate, smooth -
career transition."

Based on my experience, that is unlikely to work. If you are not in an entry-
level job, then your employer/supervisor, if reasonably intelligent and
competent, will recognize that you're far more valuable doing what you've
always done. So they may be nice to you, but they will resist. It's the flip
side of the Peter Principle.

I think it's a better approach to get an entry-level job in the
field/organization you want to transition to and then expand your job with the
stuff you want to be doing.

~~~
foobarchu
Not necessarily. I would argue that any reasonable intelligent and competent
employer/supervisor would recognize that an unhappy employee is going to
provide diminishing returns over time, and the employer would be better served
helping them explore related opportunities in the company. I've seen programs
to help employees do exactly this at every place I've worked.

The only cases where I think it would usually be a problem are if your end
goal is not with the company, or if the end result is seen as a going down the
ladder (example: QA personnel moving into development is a positive move, but
developers becoming a tester is often seen as a negative move)

------
Aperocky
I've came from almost the exact opposite, got a degree in something else and
taught myself programming and made programming my career. In my limited
experience, programming is the field where you're almost certain to deal with
people with above-average logical reasoning skills and who are generally good
natured. Same can't be said for other fields, there are definitely great minds
in other fields, but there are almost no bound to the bad apples and you might
end up dealing with those people much more regularly [In addition to not
working in something as interesting as programming, but that probably only
applies to me and not you]. Something to think about.

~~~
burlesona
I came here to say basically the same thing, as my story is very similar.

One big thing to consider, which I wish I had known before college:

It’s best to go get some relevant work experience __before __you undertake a
degree program. This is true for several reasons:

1\. You find out if you even want this particular kind of job, and assuming
you do, you should have a better idea what sort of specialization / direction
you are interested in.

2\. You need to learn __what to learn __before you’re in school. Industry
people can give you good insight into what coursework and topics are more
valuable and what is not worth your time. They can also help point you to the
best learning opportunities / schools.

In my own academic experience, I did alright, but I found that when I finally
emerged into the workforce many of my ideas about what I needed to know were
false, and that I had missed out on material that would have really benefitted
me.

In most fields the academics are barely or not at all connected to the
industry, so they often can’t help you with the “vocational” aspect of your
education very much.

------
trykondev
I went through a potentially similar experience as you, where I was feeling a
bit burned out on writing software. There were other things I wanted to pursue
like writing fiction, but I didn't necessarily have the budget to focus on it
full-time.

I transitioned into working in a field that still leverages my technical
skills, but in a different way -- I conduct technical interviews. It's been a
really healthy change for me in a number of ways -- in addition to getting
some face-to-face communication with real human beings & improving my
interviewing/interpersonal skills, it's also given me the chance to work
remotely and pursue the other things that interest me. And I've found it to be
a huge relief to have a job that is separate from the stress of maintaining a
codebase or crafting software all day which I found to be pretty draining.

The company I work for in this space pays well ($100 USD per 90-minute
interview). If this is the kind of thing you (or anyone else reading this)
might be interested in, send me an email and I would be happy to talk further
about it! My email address is in my profile.

~~~
JamesBarney
I'm surprised by the low rate for interview work. Interviews always wiped me
out.

But I guess the interviewers get a lot of freedom and maybe get it's gets
easier the more you do it.

~~~
trykondev
It was challenging at first but you are definitely right that once you do it
consistently for (maybe a month or so), it becomes a lot less taxing.

And yes -- a big part of the appeal is definitely the flexibility in terms of
hours & location. It's been such an improvement to my quality of life to find
a fully remote job.

------
tptacek
I never studied business, but did spend a couple years as a product manager
working with MBAs, and what I was told --- this could definitely be wrong ---
about business degrees and, more importantly, business school is that most of
the value was in physically attending and networking, and that you generally
wanted to be in one of the top programs or not do it at all.

On the other hand, I have heard from other people that accounting classes are
super valuable.

~~~
rolltiide
I agree with that sentiment but it is important to recognize that it is
largely a class divide

People that go to US non-Ivy League non-Stanford MBA’s have a very different
opinion. I’m glad they’ve found/rationalized utility in their choice but as
someone that has once hit a glass ceiling, I’ll pass and bet on winners.

~~~
PopeDotNinja
If you want an idea of just how many doors your MBA will open, just look at
the size of their career center. I'd it's staffed by a part time college
intern, your MBA won't open the front door to your front even if you hand it
the keys. I'd they're pretty big and matched up with a whole bunch of alumni,
they are future donors after all, then that network everyone talks about
building in school is something you can maybe tap into.

------
nyokodo
Before radically changing your career can you remember why you got into
software development in the first place? Was it something beyond mere utility?
Many of us got into software because we were fascinated with how computers
work and wanted to divine the depths of that mystery. Perhaps you can
rediscover that and find more lasting fulfillment. This might lead you to a
place you hadn't considered. For instance perhaps a specialization of software
engineering like data engineering, crypto, quantum computing etc all might
reignite that excitement for you. Good luck!

------
Baeocystin
Check out Western Governors University.

[https://www.wgu.edu/](https://www.wgu.edu/)

It is surprisingly affordable, and you can get as much out of it as effort you
put in. It is also a fully-accredited institution.

~~~
drankula3
WGU graduate here, I received my Bachelor of Science in Information Technology
last year, averaging 24 credits per term. WGU has been good for the credential
and for seriously strengthening my ability to self-learn, but it hasn't been
terribly good for my career. Networking is seriously important and the
industry, and it is nearly impossible to do within WGU.

------
techslave
a fresh business degree at 35-37 yo is a complete waste of time. a business
degree already has minimal value at 21 yo.

find what you’d like to do, and start doing it. someone somewhere is going to
let you in as an apprentice or intern or similar. connections really help here
— friends or folks from activities you do — but imho you just need to get
started. anything will do, it’s just the first step on the road. so don’t be
picky.

ok even if you disagree with that, no a fresh business degree is not a
multiplier for CS experience.

~~~
loteck
A degree is a hard requirement on many, many jobs. Your resume will never be
seen by human eyes without it. What do you recommend people with bills and
families do, to address this reality?

~~~
cookiecaper
Find jobs where the degree is _not_ a hard requirement. However many may
require one, I've never had trouble finding employment without one.

If you're targeting a _specific employer_ known to have that policy, then
yeah, you're SOL, but there's huge demand for smart, capable people out there.
I know a lot of guys who got spurned during an interview process when someone
found out they didn't have a degree, and they wear that as a chip on their
shoulder, using it to justify spending tens of thousands of dollars along with
2+ years of evenings on night school, when they could just say "Well, bummer,
guess it's not going to work out" and move on.

For some people getting a degree is the right choice and opens the right
doors. Just make sure that you're one of those people before a few frustrating
experiences are allowed to dictate the next 5 years of your life.

------
steven_noble
Given you taught yourself programming, you'll probably find you can teach
yourself your next skill too. Three common next careers for once-software
developers are recruitment (kill me now), engineering management (makes sense)
and developer relations (fascinating if you have a knack for storytelling). In
my MBA I'm sue I _did_ learn things that I otherwise would not have eventually
taught myself. But not because they could not be self-taught. Just because I
wouldn't have thought to have included them in my never-ending program of
self-education.

------
baron816
How about you try to transition to being a product manager? Lot’s of MBAs
become product managers, but I know at least at my company, SWEs have switched
over to becoming PMs. What they do is pretty different depending on what
company you’re working for or where you are in the company, but it definitely
keeps you tied in to the core metrics of the organization and frequently
working with upper management. They often earn more than engineers too.

~~~
mikekchar
I have to second this suggestion. School is great and if you want to go back
to school then I don't want to stop you. However, if it's a means to an end,
then when you are in your thirties with a kid I'm not sure it's going to pay
back. "I'm a programmer that wants to be a PM/PGM" is a great way to get into
business without having to pay upfront. Certain kinds of dev management will
get you there too. If you don't mind doing dev for a couple more years, you
can try moving to a big company and climb the "greasy ladder" for a while --
Get a lead dev position, move into a dev manager position and then start
working your way up to executive level. To be honest, experience is going to
pay _much_ better than education in these kinds of scenarios anyway.

------
PopeDotNinja
> I got one kid to take care of.

> it costs about 30k. I can't afford that

It sounds like income and savings are your limiting factors. A few years back
I was in similar position, except I was trying to get into software.

Some lessons I learned:

\- getting a degree in business didn't really prepare me for anything targeted
enough that it opened any real job opportunities for me

\- a big reason I went into software is because I liked coding on the side,
there was evidence I could get a job as a self taught developer, demand for
seemingly capable devs was high, and starting pay was pretty good

\- finding opportunities that paid enough for me to consider, and where I
could make it through the interview process, was extremely difficult, and
honestly pretty disheartening

\- it took me two years of full time studying to get my first coding gig, a 1
year contract, and I had to be willing to move 4000km at my own expense to get
it

What I encourage you to do is some research on careers that pay well enough
starting out that you can make a switch AND you can teach yourself. If you
really want to go back to school, I highly encourage you to pick
program/degree that prepares you for something that is predictably needed:
accounting, welding, paralegal, something like that. And when you graduate, be
prepared to take a shit job that no one else wants to get the experience you
need, as you may not have any better options.

Also, remember that getting out of software means your skills start to rot,
which means if you decide to go back to coding, plan on that being harder than
you expect it to be.

------
bashwizard
Since you already know how to build software, why not learn how to break them?

Go into infosec and make bank. Less tedious than coding and better pay in my
experience.

~~~
Nashooo
How is infosec less tedious?

------
marak830
Have you considered something more manual? Warehouse or driving is an easy
option that let's you earn a little cash, while clearing your head.

~~~
lukaszkups
+1 this. For me, even playing with LEGO bricks with my kid helps me to `reset`
from programming.

------
davnicwil
> It can be everywhere in the world

German universities offer Batchelors and Masters programs almost for free -
literally just a few hundred Euros per semester.

The language barrier obviously might be an issue. I know it's certainly
possible (common, even) to take Masters programs offered completely in
English, so I would assume English language Batchelors programs are also
available, though might be harder to find.

~~~
jumelles
The language barrier is becoming less and less of an issue (for English
speakers).

> Universities in the United States should watch out. It won’t be long before
> Americans realize that top European schools offer a fast-growing number of
> bachelor’s and master’s degrees, taught entirely in English, for a fraction
> of the price of many American schools, even if you add on overseas airfare.
> (In 2009, there were about 55 English B.A.’s offered in Continental Europe;
> by 2017, there were 2,900.) -
> [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/10/opinion/sunday/europeans-...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/10/opinion/sunday/europeans-
> speak-english.html)

[https://www.studyportals.com/wp-
content/uploads/2017/09/EAIE...](https://www.studyportals.com/wp-
content/uploads/2017/09/EAIE-StudyPortals-English-taught-bachelor-programmes-
Europe.pdf)

~~~
NotSammyHagar
That's encouraging, could there ever be enough pressure to lower prices here?

------
hellwd
Maybe you should just change the type of the software you build. If you are
writing business software I completely understand you. At some point I was
also considering to keep programming as a hobby and to start a new career in
some other field. However, in the end I realized that I will throw away a good
salary and already organized life without even having a clear alternative
path. Software development is always a fun if you have a good team that loves
software and management that understands the importance of software. So, my
suggestion is to find a different industry for which you will write software
and to find a company that takes the software development seriously. Whatever
path you take, good luck :)

------
perl4ever
Sometimes people do get way too deep in something that in the abstract sounds
like a good new direction for their life, but it really isn't, and then
they're stuck. I remember in another forum I read years ago, an IT guy who
decided to become a nurse. He had a very difficult time finding employment,
and ended up working in a prison, which was extremely difficult and
demoralizing.

The question is, what do you really want? I realized, after a long time, that
what I really want and am willing to sacrifice other things for, is to work
directly with the person that ultimately gets value from my work product.
Which is not how things work for developers and programmers in most places.

------
enjoyyourlife
Thomas Edison State University has a degree in General Management that you can
complete for less than 10K entirely online. You can check out a sample plan on
Degree Forum: [https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-Cheapest-General-
Man...](https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-Cheapest-General-Management-
Degree-Plan-TESU-Needs-Checking-Verifying). Also look at Degree Forum Wiki
[https://degreeforum.miraheze.org/wiki/Degree_Forum_Wiki](https://degreeforum.miraheze.org/wiki/Degree_Forum_Wiki).

------
subpixel
My main advice is to try to focus on a role or category of role and speak to
actual people with that job and who hire for that job. What you are after are
practical suggestions about getting from where you are to where you want to
be. It's possible - but also not extremely likely - that an additional degree
is worth the effort and expense. But don't sell your current knowledge and
experience short - and for goodness sake do not throw it away. Leverage it and
be the programmer who now does 'x', bringing all of what made you a great
programmer to the table.

------
DoreenMichele
California Virtual Campus allows you to search for online classes and other
info for all California colleges.

[https://cvc.edu/](https://cvc.edu/)

ASSIST helps you figure out what classes transfer within the California
system.

[https://assist.org/](https://assist.org/)

It's possible to test out of some classes. CLEP is not the only means to do
so, but is on the big names in this space.

[https://clep.collegeboard.org/exams](https://clep.collegeboard.org/exams)

------
notahacker
I'm late to the party, but I'd have thought there were lots of related fields
which your resume would work for without the degree that might not involve the
bits you don't like about programming (e.g. product management, dev team
management, marketing and as others have suggested tech recruitment)

------
loteck
OnlineU does a good job of tracking affordable college degrees. You'll have to
go check on degrees that are offered yourself. Georgia, Kansas and New Mexico
have accredited state colleges with pretty low tuition.

[https://www.onlineu.org/most-affordable-
colleges](https://www.onlineu.org/most-affordable-colleges)

Make sure the college is regionally accredited and non-profit. Good luck!

------
lordnacho
Open University is £9K a year, though I'm not sure what changes if you're not
British. They've been doing distance learning for decades.

------
Axsuul
You mentioned you were looking to start your own business. You don't need a
degree in business (or permission) to pursue this. You will learn a lot more
by doing a side hustle and succeeding/failing with that than learning from
case studies in a classroom.

Since you already know how to build things, you're already well-positioned for
this. All you need to know now is to learn how to sell. Good luck!

------
wjn0
A few questions that might help people answer better:

1\. Where do you currently live?

2\. What country/countries do you have citizenship for?

3\. Do you have the equivalent of (what we would call in the US/Canada) a high
school diploma?

4\. Do you have any sort of degree or academic certificate already? If so, in
what?

5\. What is your interest in business specifically? Are you interested in
startups, or getting into management at a large corporation?

~~~
throwaway-32
I got a 3rd world citizenship, it's useless and have high-school diploma.

I'm interested in business because I want to build my own business with all
the learnings from the study, and can also fallback to a management in corp.
if things don't work out.

------
JSeymourATL
> wouldn't mind working hard to start something new from scratch.

Look for Problems to Solve. Problems are Goldmines.
>[https://www.diamandis.com/blog/problems-are-
goldmines](https://www.diamandis.com/blog/problems-are-goldmines)

------
w-ll
There are tons of blue collar jobs that pay very well. You can also get a
technical degree in less time than a MBA.

Look into aircraft mechanics, tons of jobs needed for power company's ranging
from engineering to to service technicians. Even in the right markets plumbing
and electrical engineers making a killing.

~~~
brailsafe
I have more and more friends going into these fields, and they seem great for
someone who wants a long term stable uncomplicated career. But—and not as an
attempt to open an argument—I find that my own diminishing lack of desire to
build software increases as it feels more like an assembly line and less like
the OP describes. I don't characterize all blue collar jobs this way, but
particularly aircraft parts assembly and some aspects of mechanics, though I'd
imagine mechanics would really help get back to a place of solving problems.
Be curious what you think of that.

------
muzani
One career path I've always wanted to do is sales engineer. It's very much in
demand. They have to hire people who have very high technical skills, but
don't often want to do sales. You probably don't need an extra degree for it;
the sales is the easy part to train.

------
devoply
Go get a PMP or Prince2 and become a project manager in any software company.
Problem solved.

------
b0tch7
How do you feel about a customer facing tech role? Something like Customer
Success or a Solutions Architect in a B2B SaaS company. You're close to code,
might write some,but it's a relatively minor component of your day to day.

~~~
zapperdapper
I think this is a great idea. I would also offer in addition something like
Technical Trainer or Developer Advocate, although with a youngster the travel
could be seen as problematic. With a Technical Writer position you could do
some code, work from home and write. All while leveraging existing skills
which I think is important to do.

------
bobosha
It's very difficult to find anything similar to programming compensation-wise
or job availability. Probably the closest one is to become a nurse, counselor,
therapist that type of thing. But that would take years of training and $$$ as
well.

~~~
throwaway-32
In that case, a study that can be multiplier to my programming experience can
be a good option. For example, business management ?

~~~
didibus
I'm not sure there's a lot of multiplier on top of software engineering which
isn't a more specialized version of it like network or ML.

The only one I can think of is an entrepreneurial business degree and then you
starting your own software business.

------
codesushi42
This is kind of a vague question.

Do you want to leave programming and would not consider anything technical and
related? E.g. Cyber security, applied mathematics, etc?

------
PlotCitizen
You could always try openuniversity.edu

------
werber
Look at scholarships available to non traditional scholarships. Never pay
sticker price on education

------
terrycody
why you already hold the success key and want to drop it? Quit programming?
Are you serious? Do u even know how many people in this world want to squish
into the programming world everyday?

------
grandridge
build stuff. the current education system is overrated, especially 'business'

------
TrinaryWorksToo
Wgu.edu

------
codewritinfool
WGU?

