
CO2 shortage: Lessons learned from a storm in a pint glass? - sndean
https://www.gasworld.com/co2-shortage-lessons-learned/2015003.article
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barbegal
A better article about from an industry insider is
[https://www.gasworld.com/co2-shortage-lessons-
learned/201500...](https://www.gasworld.com/co2-shortage-lessons-
learned/2015003.article)

An interesting fact that he picks out is that coordinating shutdown periods
between suppliers would be in breach of anti-competition rules.

The crisis has overall highlighted the fact that shared production can cause
issues. Ammonia is worth about $50 billion whereas CO2 is worth about $7
billion worldwide. This makes the CO2 market about 7 times more inelastic in
supply than ammonia.

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dang
Ok, we changed the URL to that from
[https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/07/europes-...](https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/07/europes-
co2-shortage/564458/?single_page=true). Who can resist Gasworld magazine?

~~~
spraak
Besides this comment, is there a more transparent way to see when mods have
mutated the post?

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jimnotgym
I asked an expert in the beer trade about this recently and some of the big
breweries (Molson Coors who make UK bestseller Carling, for instance) make
their own CO2 for supply chain security.

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sandworm101
I thought beer was naturally carbonated! Not being a drinker, I never gave it
much thought.

~~~
DonaldFisk
Depends what kind. Real ale contains yeast is naturally carbonated as it
continues to ferment in the cask or bottle. In keg beer, after fermentation
the yeast is filtered from it, the beer is pasteurized, and CO2 is added.

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dogma1138
Real ale is an arbitrary definition large scale commercial brewing will not
risk secondary bottle fermentation for many reasons from quality control to
health and safety.

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jdietrich
>Real ale is an arbitrary definition

In the same sense that any term has an arbitrary definition. The Campaign for
Real Ale coined the term to defend the practice of cask and bottle
conditioning of beer. Beer is only real ale if it's unfiltered, unpasteurised
and is served without additional carbonation.

There are plenty of breweries producing real ale on a large scale; many of
them are subsidiaries of AB InBev, the world's largest brewing business.
Filtered and/or pasteurised beer is more convenient to ship, but other food
and drink manufacturers cope just fine with perishable products.

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phillc73
At least nitrogen powered Guinness draught is safe.

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morio
Guinness is usually 25/75 (CO2/N2).

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cascom
Not mentioned here but relative cost of transport is an issue for CO2 - It’s
pretty cheap on a nominal basis ($/CF) so transport becomes an issue. Which
means it’s a local market, also since it’s a small market - transportation
infrastructure hasn’t been built for it.

Point being there is no shortage of CO2 - just a shortage in certain places of
demand (at non-exhorbinant pricing).

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phyzome
I hadn't quite caught that the manufacture of fertilizer is so carbon-heavy --
it's not just the energy sunk into cracking apart N2, but the H is also coming
from fossil fuels. -.-

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softwarefounder
The amount of foam in that beer makes me uncomfortable.

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lainga
Don't go to the Yebisu brewery in Tokyo then - they pour a demonstration glass
for you and let you watch as the head extrudes itself several inches past the
top of the glass, like Arsenio Hall's haircut.

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selimthegrim
But does it make the sound the audience used to make on his show?

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electricslpnsld
Why don't more people put their beers on nitro? A few local breweries have
nitro IPAs which are freaking delicious.

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skittlebrau
Beers on "nitro" are still carbonated with CO2. The nitro is used to achieve a
higher serving pressure used to force it through a diffusing nozzle on the
tap. N2 doesn't actually dissolve in liquid very easily compared to CO2. If
you put the CO2 at higher pressure, it makes the beer more carbonated over
time.

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cup-of-tea
> It’s used to stun animals before slaughter

What? How? Carbon dioxide is well known to cause a painful death. Why the fuck
are they not using nitrogen?

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aarongough
I think this is poorly written in the article... Likely the Co2 gas is used to
power bolt-guns which are in turn used to stun larger animals like cows before
slaughter.

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delecti
No, the slaughter industry does in fact use CO2 to asphyxiate animals. It even
has a fun euphemism, "Controlled Atmosphere Stunning".

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inert_gas_asphyxiation#Animal_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inert_gas_asphyxiation#Animal_slaughter)

~~~
aarongough
Interesting, I didn't realize that was done at scale... As the comment above
me said, seems harsh to use CO2 for that...

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roryisok
When I started reading this article I thought it was a work of fiction,
imagining a world in which there's a CO2 shortage rather than the famous over
abundance which we're currently all aware of. It's odd and sad that there is a
demand for the manufacture of carbon dioxide in a world absolutely choking on
the excess of it.

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scythe
It's like saying that you have access to several tons of gold because you live
on the beach. Sure, there's plenty of gold in the ocean. But you can't do
anything with it.

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some_random
Exactly, to quote the (current) article,

>The caveat to this point, of course, is that this is also not as simplistic
or straightforward as it might seem – despite the widespread perception, the
level of CO2 in the atmosphere is actually very minimal. In fact, it can be
pegged at around 500 parts-per-million (ppm), which is less than 0.05%.

It's more than enough to cause problems without being trivial to take out and
concentrate. Water may very well have enough lead in to damage someone's
health without having enough to be economically beneficial to extract for the
material alone.

~~~
roryisok
all good points. I take it back.

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mockingbirdy
> Bioethanol and chemical factories, for example, also produce carbon dioxide
> as a by-product.

You know what that means. Indirectly we drink that tasty cow fart. I hope they
clean the filters.

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gowld
Do you know what milk and meat are made of?

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mockingbirdy
I'm vegan for a reason.

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seszett
The plants you eat are also indirectly made of your _cow farts_ , though. And
much more than just the farts.

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mockingbirdy
Life is basically consuming cow and dinosaur farts and some of their rotted
poo.

Disheartening, but now I know. _Enlightenment hits me in the form of a cow
patty_

~~~
dang
Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News?

