

Iran in space - user9756
http://therealamirtaheri.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/keep-your-eyes-in-sky-iran-in-space.html

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nasir
It is interesting for me when reading the opinion of others about Iran. As a
person who had lived inside and outside Iran long enough, I feel very
sceptical about the content of the article. The author's statements are very
similar to those of the government authorities where only certain facts are
described regardless of the issues. I'm not an expert about space industry but
since I am pretty sure that the article is exaggerating heavily about the
advancements and they heavily rely on China and Russia. Also the author claims
" _the sanctions have, like many other local industries, pushed Iran to meet
its needs locally and therefore advance quicker than possible if Iran had the
easy option of importing everything it needed_ ". Apparently he tries to
portray that nothing had happened because of the sanctions but it is apparent
that the sanctions has crippled the economy currently and the currency value
has reduced by five time. The prices has tripled since 4 month ago and middle
class society are getting poorer just because of the nuclear ambitions of the
leaders.

I should also state that I don't believe Iran is making nuclear weapon nor can
I deny it. I think western countries would've had the same policy even if no
nuclear activity was there and some other excuse will be used in order to
protect Israel. Western media have prepared people so well in case they need
to take any action against Iran. Well, I hope that does not happen.

~~~
guard-of-terra
"The article is exaggerating heavily about the advancements and they heavily
rely on China and Russia."

I remember how ten years ago you could read the same phrase about Chinese
program, and now they are on the providing side already!

~~~
nasir
I don't deny they are making progress. But thats not as what you think it is!

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cstross
Author of blog piece seems to be _very_ confused about how staged rockets
work, and appears to think that a two stage rocket is somehow inherently more
efficient than a three stage rocket! Which is just plain wrong.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multistage_rocket>

What he might be getting is that, if Iran had stuck a third stage on top of a
pre-existing two stage IRBM in order to put a tiny wee satellite into orbit,
then it would imply that the rocket in question was borderline-capable and not
really amenable to being upgraded further. But the Safir-2 is apparently a
2-stage rocket with the ability to reach orbital velocity, implying that by
adding boosters or a third stage to it a much larger payload could be
launched.

~~~
mistercow
I was thinking that might be what he meant, but then he says this:

>While a three-stage rocket is simple and is limited on how much of a weight
threshold it can lift, the more advanced two-stage can be expanded for larger
weights.

The first part of that is, I'm pretty sure, the opposite of true. The second
part is sort of true, but the "expansion" in question would be... adding a
third stage. I think he heard the Geoffrey Forden quote and misunderstood the
point, which is admittedly subtle.

I think what Forden meant was: "If they need three stages to do just this,
then they'll never be able to use this to launch a human, because a four-stage
rocket is completely beyond them. But if they can do _this_ with only two
stages, they could get a human to space with three stages."

~~~
cstross
Yup, that was my reading, too.

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daeken
I'm so glad to see Iran doing this. Not because I have any particular affinity
for Iran, but because the technology will improve as competition increases and
more nations/companies take steps into space.

This may be a big step for Iran, but it's an even bigger one for the human
race as a whole.

~~~
tjmc
Are you glad to see North Korea develop its "space program" too? Yes, I know
this is HN where discussions about politics are discouraged, but in this case
it's bordering on farcical to ignore it.

I have a lecturer in fluid mechanics who used to be an engineer on the Indian
space program. He interchangeably uses the terms "satellite" and "warhead"
when discussing the work he used to do.

It may well be that Iran wants to develop orbital launch capability for
launching satellites and people into space. But assuming that's the only
reason is a little naive.

~~~
eternauta3k
I like the occasional reminder that Iran has never started a war. And it won't
unless it plans to be obliterated, so don't worry about that.

~~~
redwood
Iran is in a war with its own citizens and its own women especially.

~~~
user9756
Not true. Stop lying. Are you eg familiar with the actions taken by the
Iranian government which made it possible for people in rural areas to send
their daughters to school? Being extremely traditional they were afraid of
sending their girls all alone to school. Iran has a very high number of
educated women thanks to the policies of the Iranian government.

(edit: yes women still have advances to make in rights vis-a-vis men in
Iranian society, but you can hardly call that "war" more than a natural
struggle for power between the sexes in a society)

~~~
EliRivers
"natural struggle for power between the sexes"

There's nothing natural about such a struggle. It's cultural.

~~~
user9756
Yeah, I thought about that use of the word ("natural") after I posted, but
decided not to edit it out.

I agree with you that it could be cultural. But the behaviour of men wanting
to control women seems to be prevalent in many societies regardless of
culture.

~~~
EliRivers
I think it's possible that it's actually just some people wanting to control
other people (and setting their sights on weaker people to improve chances of
success), and given the biological differences between men and women that
leave women with significantly less muscle mass and mass in general, for any
given male choosing to act in this way, women are on average easier targets.

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benjlang
Great to hear. We in Israel are also planning on sending a person to the moon
soon: <http://www.spaceil.com> Innovation in the Middle East is much needed.

~~~
dchichkov
I'm surprised, that you are glad to hear, that a country with relatively
unstable government is making progress toward having ballistic missile
capabilities. Actually scratch that. It is progress toward ICBMs, not just
ballistic missiles.

Here's a reference to the current state of the program:
[http://iranprimer.usip.org/resource/irans-ballistic-
missile-...](http://iranprimer.usip.org/resource/irans-ballistic-missile-
program)

And a bit more recent update: <http://www.iranwatch.org/wmd/wmd-
iranmissileessay.htm>

~~~
benjlang
You're right, that is worrisome but I highly doubt it will reach that point.
The US and Israel will never allow that to happen.

If only the Iranian government cared about its people and making the world a
better and more innovative place...

~~~
dchichkov
Well, one fact to keep in mind - developing capabilities to launch satellites
[payload to orbit] is inseparable from capability to launch ICBMs. That's why
first sputnik was both, so inspiring and so scary.

As to 'never allowing this to happen'. There are no such guaranties. I'd
guess, the opposite is true. Technology [and as a result advanced weaponry] is
only getting more and more accessible.

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dsl
Regardless of your views on the sanctions themselves, this blog post
illustrates how effective the US blockade of technology to Iran really is. The
Iranian space program is just starting to reach the level of sophistication of
hobbyists in the western world.

The post however fails to mention Iran has actually launched a total of 5
satellites, the first two being joint launches with Russia and China.

~~~
guard-of-terra
You are plain wrong. Any space program takes years and starts with satellite
launches. Look at the Chinese program for example. There is no reason to think
US blockade somehow harmed the progress of the program there. And it does not
matter much since USSR is known to launch anything they wanted before the
modern globalized economics that made blockades possible even existed.

Your comment about hobbysts is plain misleading to. How many hobbysts launch
pets into suborbital and orbital flights and get those back in one piece? How
many hobbysts can launch a satellite, anyway? Using their own rocket? You can
pimp SpaceX to defend your misleading statement, but they are not in any sense
hobbysts and their work would not be possible without NASA and it took them
long years anyway.

So please stop disregarding other people's achivements. This is just lame.

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tomjen3
No but Copenhagen Suborbitals are hobbiests. And they expect to launch a
suborbital rocket with a human onboard.

And their combined budget is properly less than what NASA use on toilets.

~~~
ryanac
Some of those "hobbyists" at Copenhagen Suborbitals are former NASA
contractors and they have been working on that project since May 2008, so I
think his main point still stands.

It also looks like they're still doing a lot of testing on active guidance
systems, rather than trying to put a human up any time soon.

You can see their plans for the rest of this year under Campaigns > 2012 on
their main site: <http://www.copenhagensuborbitals.com>

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amirex111
The reason that Iran has no nukes is by self choice. They have always wanted
the Japan model, to reach the technological threshold of having nukes without
physically building them. This they reached years ago.

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batgaijin
If Iran is capable of technological progress at this rate, how did Pakistan
get a nuke before Iran?

~~~
sagarun
The Chinese gave them one!

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amirex111
Thanks user9756 for posting this!

