

'My degree is next to worthless' - simonhamp
http://www.bbc.com/news/education-33984756

======
pjc50
A key point here is that surveying the job market before embarking on your
degree is not sufficient: there's a four year lag. The guy with the master's
in town planning is an obvious victim of this.

A more subtle point is that the more specific the degree is the more
vulnerable it is to obsolescence or changing market conditions.

People keep saying "we need more STEM graduates", but without being more
specific about exactly what degrees people should do it's just going to result
in more of this kind of problem.

~~~
hackerboos
The data is not always that good. For example, the BBC ranked Computer Science
as one of the worst degrees to have when looking for a job:

[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/7549106.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/7549106.stm)

I've also seen it on the top 10:

[http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/these-are-
the-10-best-...](http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/these-are-the-10-best-
degree-subjects-for-landing-a-job-after-university--ekxmpyJMZZ)

Although there's a 5 year difference.

~~~
simonh
I interview CS graduates from time to time. Most of them have nothing up on
GitHub, a mobile phone or tablet with nothing they've written running on it to
show off, not even a Stack Overflow account. When I graduated in 1990 all my
friends were doing CS because we loved it, we'd been programming since we were
teenagers. Just as personal fun side projects I have stuff in GitHub, scripts
I can show off on my iPhone and a few thousand points in SO. If a kid wants to
be a programmer, nobody is stopping them. They'd don't have to get permission
from anyone. My advice to kids doing CS is that if you want to be a
programmer, then be one. Make that what you are. But most of them have no real
passion or interest in the subject except as a means to a pay
check.[/grumpyoldman]

~~~
brador
This right here. You either have useful work experience or a portfolio of your
work, or i'm trashing your resume.

It's also amazing how many CS majors waste their 3-4 years addicted to video
games (LOL seems to be the big one right now). Those 1000's of hours are
better spent building that portfolio that will net you $100k day 1 out of your
degree.

Video game addiction is serious. Google for solutions, it can be fixed. It
does not improve your resume to mention your lol rank.

~~~
stuxnet79
I haven't gamed seriously in about 5 years, because I have been busy finishing
up my undergraduate degree. Now that I've graduated and I'm employed I've
started building a gaming rig, with hopes of getting back into the hobby. Now
that I've read this I'm wondering if I should even bother. Perhaps I should
focus on building my portfolio more. I find video games help me unwind so that
I don't have a restless feeling when I'm focusing on what really matters. In
adequate amounts I think video games are alright. I'm wondering what your
threshold for "addiction" is though ...

~~~
thfuran
Do you want to spend your life gaining work experience and building a
portfolio to ensure maximum salary, or do you want to spend your life doing
what you want do? Some people program as a hobby and convince themselves that
anyone who has different hobbies is a worthless programmer, but that is
nonsense. Build that gaming rig.

------
mtalantikite
We need to stop thinking about an undergraduate university degree as job
training, because it's not. Those years are supposed to expose the student to
many different topics they wouldn't otherwise encounter. The best thing I
learned in undergrad was how to study in a meaningful way and to synthesize
concepts from various fields.

What people really are looking for is vocational education, which is not what
an undergraduate institution is good at doing.

~~~
humanrebar
I believe the price of an undergraduate degree is only justified if we assume
some sort of real return (i.e., jobs that pay money) on the substantial
investment of time and money.

Middle-class people don't typically spend years of their lives and tens of
thousands of dollars on structured self-betterment activities.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
That's patently false. Skiing, painting, home woodshop, hobby farms,
gardening...

Many people believe that an education is a good thing in its own right. Its a
sad view of life that you're own betterment isn't worth any price. I guess its
all for hedonistic pleasures then? Video games, movies, fancy car - those are
the meaning of life?

~~~
humanrebar
I think you missed a couple words there:

    
    
      * middle class
      * structured
    

The children of public school teachers don't go into debt to spend five (or
six!) figures on all-inclusive ski tour packages (complete with certificate!)
as part of a pursuit for abstract self-betterment.

Also, if it were all for self-betterment, why have degrees at all? Why not
just take classes that seemed worthwhile? Why have grades for that matter?

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Over a period of 4 or 6 years? Sure they do. Personally, I've gone to Scout
meetings for 2 decades, and spent a fortune on structured outings, uniforms,
materials and supplies. Its something I enjoy and has a good result.

We have degrees to satisfy the need for some for closure, to recognize
accomplishment, and to get old students out of there and make room for new
ones. That a degree has been fastened onto as a job-training certificate is
just unfortunate.

------
Someone1234
This is interesting:

> A majority of graduates in the UK are getting jobs where they do not need a
> degree, according to a report.

But I have to say the three examples are not. Two of the three degrees are
jobless anyway, and the one that isn't ("town planning") is extremely
specific, and as the article said the dude just got unlucky.

Please list off what jobs are available for "conservation biology" and
"politics and philosophy" which ARE degree specific.

If it is true that the "majority of graduates" aren't getting jobs where their
degree applies, that is genuinely interesting, and something worth discussing.
The rest of the article is just "I did a stupid degree and didn't get a job!"

~~~
saint_fiasco
>Two of the three degrees are jobless anyway

>The rest of the article is just "I did a stupid degree and didn't get a job!"

This is interesting in itself. Why do people spend so much time and money on
something like that?

The town planner was unlucky. Not much can be done about that.

The 'politics and philosophy guy' says he was misled. He does not say his age,
but I bet he was young and immature when he chose his mayor.

The conservation biologist says she wanted to work in something that helps
people and not just make money. If she had given half of the money she used to
study biology to whichever organization she hoped would hire her, she would
have saved money, time, and would have helped more.

The article doesn't really give an answer, but it raises an important
question.

~~~
pjc50
Note that UK degrees don't have "majors": you pick a subject at about 17
before you're doing your final "high school"-level exams.

The whole thing is probably fallout from the Blairite changes to the system.
It used to be that degrees were free and scarce - limited by academic
admissions criteria. They have been changed to widespread and loan-based.
People expect them to have the door-opening prestige of the old system and
haven't really adapted to them becoming an expensive trade school for the
middle class.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
The problem isn't so much that they are no longer door-opening, it's rather
that not having a degree has become door-closing.

~~~
saint_fiasco
I wonder if that's really true.

I understand that nobody wants to do the experiment with their own lives, but
if you can realize that there are competent people who aren't getting hired
because they lack college degrees, surely employers will realize that too.

Would they leave money on the table like that?

------
lordnacho
There needs to be a distinction between "my degree is as if I hadn't done a
degree at all" and "my specific degree could have been any other degree".

Especially in the UK, your ordinary desk job can be a guy who studied
anything, as long as he studied something.

------
iamthepieman
College/University has been a glorified and lengthy job prep center so that HR
managers can quickly filter/find candidates to fill another seat. Big
institutions like universities don't change fast so the current higher
education system we are seeing now is probably one best suited for the
business and economic environment of 15 to 20 (or longer) years ago.

------
digitalengineer
Book idea: "Worthless: The Young Person's Indispensable Guide to Choosing the
Right Major" [http://www.amazon.com/Worthless-Young-Persons-
Indispensable-...](http://www.amazon.com/Worthless-Young-Persons-
Indispensable-Choosing/dp/1467978302)

------
sanxiyn
Maybe things are changing, but in average, this is not true.

OECD Education Indicators in Focus: What are the returns on higher education
for individuals and countries?

[http://www.oecd.org/edu/skills-beyond-
school/Education%20Ind...](http://www.oecd.org/edu/skills-beyond-
school/Education%20Indicators%20in%20Focus%206%20June%202012.pdf)

------
stillsut
Here's one job that might be open: Photographer for the BBC. Article features
one corny stock image + 3 webcam myspace shots?

~~~
nine_k
Maybe this is exactly because the job is _not_ open, and isn't going to be?
Everyone need to cut costs.

------
Yhippa
One conclusion from this is that okay, since degrees don't seem to help with
job prospects then just do an apprenticeship or other program straight to
industry. I kind of like that idea but I am worried that people are still
looking for people who get their degree as a signal that they could do all the
things required to get that degree.

