
Electric cars grab 44% market share in Norway in January - ckastner
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-electric-norway/electric-cars-grab-44-market-share-in-norway-in-january-idUSKBN1ZX27U
======
floatrock
Yes Norway has invested in public charging infrastructure, has tax incentives
that penalize ICE's, cheap plentiful renewable energy, etc. etc. etc.

But still, seeing stats like this shows the electrification of transportation
can be done if a country makes it a priority. The technology is different, not
inferior.

In the US where infrastructure investment to create a conducive environment is
shouted down in favor of "well, customers aren't demanding this so we're not
going to build this", what's promising is this Sunday was the Superbowl of the
EV ads:

\- GM Hummer EV teaser:
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t6EPPJHaCtw](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t6EPPJHaCtw)

\- Audi E-Tron:
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WvEAklsAAts](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WvEAklsAAts)

\- Porsche Taycan:
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=92sXWVxRr0g](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=92sXWVxRr0g)

\- (Apparently some markets also saw a Mach-E ad)

When car companies are finally spending millions on their EV offerings at one
of the largest automotive advertising debutant balls, sentiment is beginning
to change.

~~~
keanzu
> has tax incentives that penalize ICE's

You can seriously distort the competitive landscape if you are willing to put
a 100% tax on one of the alternatives. A lot can be achieved with unlimited
amounts of other people's money.

~~~
floatrock
I completely agree -- the competitive landscape gets seriously distorted when
you play with the tax code and shift costs onto someone else:

[https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-fossil-fuel-
subs...](https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-fossil-fuel-subsidies-a-
closer-look-at-tax-breaks-and-societal-costs)

~~~
keanzu
Oil is the lifeblood of the US economy.

In times of economic recession, we often blame the government and get rid of
them.

We've clearly signaled with our voting patterns what we want and government
has delivered on it - a reliable supply of oil to power the economy. Hence
subsidies.

On the other side the Norwegian government has managed to implement the
world's highest tax on ICE cars and survive re-election so presumably that's
what the electorate wants.

------
bradlys
For those unaware, ICE vehicles are taxed at something like 100%+ their sale
value. Whereas electric vehicles don't pay that and don't pay tolls and many
other fees that are common in Norway.

It's not a surprise that electric is taking over there. They're incredibly
cheap compared to ICE.

~~~
lokedhs
Is it actually higher than Singapore's at least 100% import tax? Granted,
Singapore charges that tax for both petrol and electric cars.

[https://www.dollarsandsense.sg/no-nonsense-explanation-on-
wh...](https://www.dollarsandsense.sg/no-nonsense-explanation-on-why-cars-in-
singapore-are-so-expensive/)

------
keanzu
2015: A Chevrolet Camaro (3.6 litre V6) is over 156,000 dollars here in Norway
(if I were to import). Why?

    
    
        Value-added tax = 9,000 dollars
        Tax for the weight of the car = 15,000 dollars
        Engine tax (horepowers mostly) = 27,000 dollars
        CO2 tax = 72,000 dollars
        N0x-tax (nitrogen oxide) = 1000 dollars
        First-time registration (to get license plates, don't know what this is called in us) = 115,000 dollars
        In case you want-to-scrap-your-car-tax = 400 dollars
    

Total taxes for a Chevrolet Camaro V6? 125,000 dollars.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/2iql6h/how_and_why_ca...](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/2iql6h/how_and_why_cars_are_expensive_in_norway_tax/)

~~~
newnewpdro
$72k co2 tax! That's epic, _this_ is how you deprecate ICE vehicles.

~~~
keanzu
That's a specific car but if you are interested you can use the government
calculator and do your own numbers:

[https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/person/duties/cars-and-
other-...](https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/person/duties/cars-and-other-
vehicles/importing/calculate/)

~~~
newnewpdro
Is the co2 tax only applicable to imports?

~~~
keanzu
I don't believe Norway has an indigenous car manufacturing industry, at least
not one that makes ICE cars, so all cars are imported.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Car_manufacturers_of_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Car_manufacturers_of_Norway)

~~~
newnewpdro
So is there no co2 tax paid on used vehicle purchases?

I'm mostly curious how this impacts lower income folks who won't likely be
able to afford a shiny new EV.

------
Lendal
Seems like the country has a new name, "oil-producer Norway".

Look, oil production is going to be around for a long, long time. Even when
99% of new vehicles are EV and 99% of power production is renewable, we will
still be pumping and refining oil. There are use cases where oil-based
products will be necessary basically forever, even after global warming has
been neutralized. This doesn't mean Norway doesn't care about the environment.

------
tempsy
For those who don't follow stocks very closely Tesla is up another 17% today
to $757. This has almost tripled in a few months. Insanity.

------
thdrdt
Meanwhile in the Netherlands Tesla sales dropped from ~12000 in December 2019
to ~36 in January 2020 because the tax advantage disappeared.

------
dang
Electric cars are always doing that in Norway:

[https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...](https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=electric%20norway&sort=byDate&type=story)

------
Reedx
Wow, nice. Ever closer to a tipping point with electric cars and
infrastructure.

Certainly confidence is increasing. Tesla's stock still soaring, breaking
another milestone today (>$700).

~~~
marriedWpt
It's hard to understand why the stock is soaring. I don't think it has to do
with sales.

Is it from inflation of USD due to the federal reserve? Is it a bubble with
current owners fomo?

I really don't think it's Tesla being Tesla. They just aren't competitive in
the luxury market or for a 35k USD car.

------
overcast
I wonder how the colder climate effects vehicles in this market.

~~~
mmaurizi
Colder climate hurts range on electric vehicles.

On the plus side for EV adoption in colder climates, they've got outlets
_everywhere_ for people to plug in the block heaters on their cars, so they're
totally ready in terms of public slow-charging infrastructure.

~~~
newnewpdro
Doesn't it hurt range, but increase battery longevity?

ISTR hot climates being more problematic for EV owners in terms of premature
battery wear.

~~~
toomuchtodo
No, batteries do not like to be too hot, nor too cold. There is an operating
range. This is why Teslas keep their packs cool in the heat, but will also
restrict charge rate from regeneration or charging (yellow dotted line on
energy consumption graph) until the pack has been brought up to operating
temp.

Hot climates killed Nissan LEAF packs faster because of poor (air cooling)
thermal management. Tesla packs use liquid cooling, and aggressively manage
the battery pack to ensure longevity.

------
Lordarminius
This underlines the observation that internal combustion engine is officially
dead. It's just waiting to be buried.

~~~
gambiting
I mean, with ICEs being taxed at something like 120%, it's not a surprise, is
it?

~~~
toomuchtodo
I think it's only a surprise that other countries don't force drivers to pay
the externalities of a combustion vehicle. EVs are still making a great
showing globally, and market penetration will increase as costs come down.
Combustion vehicles aren't "dead", but it wouldn't be outrageous to call the
peak; China is one of the largest markets in the world and they are pushing
_hard_ to go straight to EVs. Legacy automakers will follow or die.

You wouldn't sit in the garage with a combustion vehicle running; the planet
is simply a bigger, shared garage.

Now that EVs are proven, perhaps it's time people lean harder on their
governments to sunset unnecessary combustion vehicles. Norway intends to
prohibit new combustion vehicles purchases in 2025. Several other countries
2030. I expect this trend to ramp as EVs get cheaper and climate change
accelerates.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-
out_of_fossil_fuel_vehic...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-
out_of_fossil_fuel_vehicles#Jurisdictions_with_planned_fossil-
fuel_vehicle_bans) (Jurisdictions with planned fossil-fuel vehicle bans)

~~~
gambiting
Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of these are actually banning petrol/diesel
car sales at all. A hybrid/plug-in hybrid cars are exempt - so pretty much
every manufacturer has a "mild-hybrid" version of every model, with something
like a tiny 1kW battery to help with the initial movement, and that's enough
to get around this ban. No?

~~~
toomuchtodo
True! But it's likely you see these sorts of hybrids phased out, similar to
how Chevy killed the Volt in favor of full battery electric vehicles. The ban
can change to be more onerous at any time, and manufacturing capex decisions
are decided on decade timelines. It would be a _shame_ if you attempted such a
compliance hack only to have your manufacturing line lifetime profitability
nuked with the stroke of a legislative pen.

