

Facebook launches overhauled comment system - siddhant
http://techcrunch.com/2011/03/01/facebook-rolls-out-overhauled-comments-system-try-them-now-on-techcrunch/

======
michaelchisari
When building out Appleseed, I decided on a principle early on that's
important for a sense of social... well, not privacy, that's not the right
word. Segmentation, more like it.

But first, humans rely on segmentation. I want to know that if I'm hanging out
in a bar with a bunch of friends, I can talk a certain way that I would never
talk around my parents or my extended family. If a member of that social group
walks into the bar, it's awkward, but on some level, they opened that
pandora's box, by encroaching on my social space.

Facebook doesn't seem to understand that, preferring instead to just dump
everything into one box labelled "Social!" and forgetting that you interact
with your friends different from your family, your coworkers, etc.

So for Appleseed, the principle I'm focusing on is that, when you report to
your friends, you report on contexts, not actions.

So, when you upload a photo, or post a journal entry, or a status update,
you're creating context, and the appropriate friends are notified of that
context.

However, when you comment on that context, you are taking an action. The
recipients of that context are notified, but your friends are not (unless
they're already mutual friends of the context owner).

In other words, Alice posts a journal entry to her College Buddies friends
circle. Bob comments on that journal entry. Alice's College Buddies friends
circle is notified of Bob's comment, but Bob's friends are not notified unless
they are also one of Alice's College Buddies.

This isn't perfect, someone so inclined can still search for your comments and
find them, provided the privacy settings are open enough. But let's as least
make stalking require an extra action, instead of doing it for the user.

~~~
bjtitus
I agree 100% with your statements except that I think Facebook does understand
this. After all, isn't this exactly what the Lists/Groups feature does
(albeit, un-intuitively)?

I believe that Facebook knows this is a concern and this is why they
relaunched the Groups feature recently. It's a hard problem to solve from a UX
perspective. Most normal users would be confused by segregating things out
even if there was an easy UI solution for creating/publishing to these groups.

Look to their recent acquisition of Beluga to get a sense of where this is
going. They are obviously interested in moving into the group messaging space.

Lets not fool ourselves, though. Facebook has some vested interest in making
things more public so that advertisers and media outlets can use them without
issue.

~~~
joebadmo
There's an inherent tension between people's desire for granular control and
their resistance to exercising that control, ie I want robust lists, but I
don't want to have to manage them. I kind of feel like once list/group data is
portable between services/networks, it won't be as big of a problem, since
you'd only have to do it once, and management after that can be at the time of
contact creation/connection.

I also think using the physical place metaphors more explicitly could be
interesting. Like you could make a "bar" place, where your bar friends gather.
Functionally I suppose it would be identical to Facebook groups.

What I'm really hoping for, though is that in the future once identity data is
portable, the existing social networks will be more akin to places. Facebook
will be the place for shallow, bland, regulated, cursory interaction. Twitter
will be the place for shouting loud and pithy aphorisms in public. You could
create private places for different purposes as the needs arise.

~~~
bjtitus
I don't know that I agree that data portability is the problem. Nearly
everyone (college aged kids) I know use Facebook exclusively for social
networking. I don't think they care if their groups are portable.

I think the root problem is encouraging people to make them. I think this is
why Groups became shareable but a better UX or automatic algorithm for
creating them would help tremendously. Some kind of incentive for creating
groups would help as well. I think the group messaging features could do this
(group text, especially).

~~~
joebadmo
You're probably right, and I'm speaking mostly from my place of aversion to
Facebook. But anecdotally I feel like there is a slow shift away from Facebook
happening.

Dave Winer talks about the cyclical nature of these things, and I think I
agree that while we're in a closed part of the cycle right now, we're heading
toward a more open one.

------
jonknee
My /etc/hosts file already blocks Facebook's widgets, so I don't see anything
in the comments section on TechCrunch. That's a feature and improvement as far
as I'm concerned.

TechCrunch kind of hinted at it, but I will never use Facebook to leave a
comment on a website (or log-into a site for that matter). I keep my Facebook
account separate from everything because I don't trust Zuck whatsoever.

Update: in addition to blocking in /etc/hosts, I run Facebook Disconnect in
Chrome which gets rid of all those Like buttons and other annoyances that run
on the main Facebook domain and can't be blocked in /etc/hosts without also
blocking your access to Facebook directly. It's a fantastic extension.

[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ejpepffjfmamnambag...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ejpepffjfmamnambagiibghpglaidiec)

~~~
mithaler
I run Facebook Disconnect too, and it also caused the comments to fail to load
on the TechCrunch article, in case you were wondering.

~~~
jonknee
I block connect.facebook.com in /etc/hosts so the comments don't load in any
browser for me as the request 404s, Facebook Disconnect is just a bonus.

------
bloodcarter
I feel really bad about this. I'll explain.

Every person has different "social roles" in real life (for friends, business
associates, hobby, etc.). But I have only one FB account. With single avatar
pic. Imagine leaving a comment on some business related website using this
system while I have FB avatar of me on some crazy college drunk party. When
I'm socializing on FB website only that's OK, but when you try to go out,
that's a big problem. We need a better way to manage our social roles.

~~~
r00fus
If FB comments catch on, Facebook better expect a wave of non-real personas.
It's not hard to make/maintain a fake persona. Most of my personal details on
FB are not only hidden, but false.

Perhaps this is the strategy to boost their numbers? (Ill advised, I think,
but whatever)

~~~
Rariel
I was thinking about this too. But it seems like FB might actually like that,
fluff up their user numbers a bit...

------
r00fus
Lack of pseudonyms is going to be a real stumbling block for this.

When I'm conversing with a real person (ie, on Facebook, Twitter or IM) then
I'm ok using my real name because there are privacy controls.

When I'm discussing things on HN or TechCrunch, I don't want my opinions being
misconstrued out of context... given this society's litigious nature, I think
FB comments are not going to take over Disqus/IntenseDebate's market, though
they might carve out a nice niche.

------
Rariel
I'm very much against this. Facebook does not need a piece of every aspect of
our online life. I much prefer Disqus because 1) they aren't facebook and 2)
they are way more useful in terms of commenting because it allows you to keep
certain opinions off of facebook.

Facebook already has a big brother vibe to it--a feeling echoed by many others
I know--why do they keep going further with this sort of thing?

~~~
stanleydrew
Because they need to make more money? Their vision has been to own identity on
the web for quite a while. This is just one more small step in that direction,
the big previous step being Facebook Connect itself.

------
pessimist
Appear to be uncrawlable by Google/Bing - the closing of the web accelerates,
sadly with the full consent and cooperation of users and websites.

------
BvS
Seems like the comments can not be indexed by Google so it seems bad if you
want to the comments to help with your SEO efforts.

~~~
riffer
That will be the best thing that's happened to blog comments in 5 or 6 years.

------
jamesjyu
I don't know about everyone else, but this is the first time in a while where
TC comments are actually readable, and are not troll-ridden. This is a good
thing.

~~~
minalecs
I actually think it has made the discourse worse, in that we are getting only
the cookie cutter replies, of nice article and good job type comments. As much
as everyone hates trolls, they do bring up good point sometimes regardless if
you agree or disagree with them.

~~~
Rariel
Trolls often say things that people are too scared to say under a real name OR
a well known user name. I never understood the problem with just ignoring
trolls or laughing at them. I mostly laugh.

------
gokhan
To understand the scene on comments, here's a This Week in Startups episode
with Daniel Ha, founder of Disqus.

[http://thisweekin.com/thisweekin-startups/this-week-in-
start...](http://thisweekin.com/thisweekin-startups/this-week-in-
startups-116-with-daniel-ha-founder-of-disqus/)

Starts at 00:15:00

~~~
riffer
And at 30:15 he talks about the potential implications of Facebook entering
the comments space. His point is that it validates the market.

------
dstein
When you think about it from the perspective of big sites like TechCrunch,
requiring that people use their true Facebook identity would virtually
eliminate nasty comments overnight. When you're using your true identity
people will generally behave a lot better.

If that was the only motive behind Facebook comments I could easily get on
board with that, but inevitably Facebook will find deviant and lucrative
purposes for the information they gather.

~~~
sorbus
> When you're using your true identity people will generally behave a lot
> better.

Because obviously no one has fake facebook accounts, and the barrier of
creating an account with a plausible sounding name in order to troll people is
a high enough barrier of entry to stop trolls. And no one is ever mean to
other people in situations where their real name is known.

I admit to being a bit envious of whatever fantasy world you live in.

~~~
dstein
Sure, trolls will be trolls. But I'd make a bet that average Joe Sixpack might
just get tired of logging out of Facebook to log back in with his troll
account just so he can post a hit-and-run nasty comment. It's probably enough
of a barrier to make an impact.

~~~
innes
It may discourage trolling, but I expect it will also mean 90% of comments are
made by people who are oblivious that they're trolling with their real
identity, people who dont care that they're trolling WTRI, people with big
egos, and of course 'social media' people promoting their 'personal brand'.

------
JohnTitus
The "advantage" FB has is that comments on a 3rd party site get posted to your
FB page, and replies to those comments on FB go back to the 3rd party page.
I'm not sure that's really that big of an advantage - some may consider it a
disadvantage..

~~~
estel
The advantage would be to drive more traffic and discussion to the parent
site. This is also opt-outable.

------
trotsky
Great, trading one slow loading invasive comment system that my plugins block
(disqus) for another slow loading invasive comment system that my plugins
already block.

Nothing like progress.

Widget block:
[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hgiihiookhijpbhafl...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hgiihiookhijpbhaflohognbhmamdnol)

Disconnect:
[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/jeoacafpbcihiomhla...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/jeoacafpbcihiomhlakheieifhpjdfeo)

------
kmfrk
Can someone explain the appeal of using this over something with support for
pseudonyms?

~~~
notahacker
It should result in a moderate reduction in trolling. Mainly it's the same
appeal as every other Facebook widget - people commenting on your site _must_
spam all their friends' newsfeeds with your article.

This makes it ideal for a personal blog that you actually do want some of your
friends to comment on, ideal for a mass media site driven by pageviews, and
hopeless for niche enthusiast sites trying to promote debate.

The other "advantage" claimed by TC - that Facebookers can contribute directly
to the comment thread without even visiting the article page never mind
reading it - sounds like it has pretty dubious value.

~~~
joebadmo
I wonder about the reduction in trolling, too, considering a lot of the
comments I've seen on Facebook. I always thought identification would reduce
bad behavior, but anecdotally I've found that not to be the case.

------
michuk
Facebook Comments won't touch the ID/Echo/Disqus market share on dominant
websites and popular blogs, but it will totally take over the long tail.

With no comment karma or other means of emphasizing the important content, the
new Facebook comments plugin is going to totally kill commenting on popular
websites like TechCrunch (which, amazingly, is testing it right now. The first
post got >1000 comments. With such amounts it's just a lot of noise. If you
are big, do it like they do it on Slashdot or don't do it at all!

On the other hand, it can be a real killer feature for small sites that
normally would have zero or very few comments, with all interactions moving to
Facebooks and Twitters or the world. Now with Facebook Comments, it can stay
on Facebook and you don't care as you're still getting your comments back on
your blog and the more people share it and comment on it, the bigger chance
you get to attract new readers. Amazing opportunity!

------
JonnieCache
What's needed is a browser extension that blocks the facebook comments iframe
from reading my facebook session. I currently block their various tracking
widgets using the widget block extension, which prevents them from ever being
loaded, as they are worthless. But this way I won't ever be able to see the
facebook comments at all, which will be aggravating if they become as common
as disqus for example. Regrettably that isn't unlikely.

So we need a way of appearing to not have a facebook session when displaying
the facebook comments widget on other sites, but not interfering with facebook
proper.

~~~
Terretta
Incognito protects your privacy by blocking Google Adsense and Google
Analytics on non-Google pages. In addition, it allows you to optionally block
Facebook content on third-party websites as well as embedded YouTube movies
outside of the YouTube website.

<http://www.orbicule.com/incognito/>

It blocked the comments on this TechCrunch article for me, and it blocks
"Like" buttons everywhere for me too.

------
mrchess
This will propagate a new wave of facebook trolls who will create accounts
with specific demographics and make vulgar comments in hopes to 1) troll, and
2) make said demographic look bad. Problem is now we can't even tell if they
are real or not!

~~~
hackinthebochs
I'm sure it's easy to do some friend graph analysis to determine a ranking
similar to pagerank for comments. The troll accounts would sink to the bottom
like a rock.

~~~
gloob
SEO.

------
Newky
I think there is a greasemonkey script in the making to disable the defaulting
of the post on facebook tickbox.

In the rare occasion my non-tech friends want to see comments I made on
something, I think I can manage to tick the box.

------
blocke
Blocking Facebook in Adblock is the gift that keeps on giving.

No need to resort to an additional mod when all you need to do is toss the
following in Adblock:

||facebook.com/

||facebook.net/

||fbcdn.com/

||fbcdn.net/

------
robryan
What's so terrible about the comment system that comes with wordpress?

~~~
rkudeshi
It doesn't allow for surfacing popular/controversial comments. It keeps
everything chronological, which is a good reference, but encourages people to
post quickly, without considerable thought.

Would you want Hacker News comment threads ordered chronologically? Exactly.

------
lowglow
So what are Disqus's plans now?

~~~
danielha
Hasn't changed! We've known about this (as well as the launch today) and
aren't making any specific plans based on TC's testing of FBComments.

------
yanw
But I'm already invested in my Disqus account and I prefer their pseudo-
anonymity approach, also I don't have yahoo nor facebook accounts.

~~~
fedd
so disqus is unneeded now? now they may ditch wordpress and move entirely to
facebook

