
Envisioning Development: What is Affordable Housing? - alexjmann
http://envisioningdevelopment.net/map
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brc
It's not the housing that costs. It's the land underneath the housing that is
valuable. The reasons are demand and supply. The supply is fixed, the demand
can vary greatly for a number of reasons. However, the only way to lower the
price to live on that land is to make it in less demand, which means making
the area less attractive to live in. Hardly what anyone wants.

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lliiffee
You can sort of increase supply by building taller buildings.

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nazgulnarsil
zoning prevents the market from meeting demand properly. the justification is
preventing externalities such as turning what was a nice small town into a
condo complex etc. but the citizens who want to keep it a small town shouldn't
do so at the end of a gun (legislation), if they want it they should pay for
it.

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evgen
The problem with this argument is that the citizens who want to keep a small
town small were there first. They created and/or maintain the urban
environment that makes the location appealing for the would-be condo builder.
As such they have the right to make whatever rules they want within certain
limits -- think of it as a "private" club that has a specific membership
requirement (you must live within the prescribed boundaries to join.) If I
join your club I should expect to abide by the rules set by the members
according to the process that existed when I joined, just because I think the
walls of the clubhouse should be painted blue doesn't mean that I can decide
on a whim paint a small part of the wall. If the condo-builder wants to create
a building as tall as he wants then he should find some piece of land that
does not have restrictions attached to it, build his condo, and see if the
people come...

Zoning restrictions are a part of the market. If it were not for the
restrictions the land would have a different value. Part of what makes a piece
of property valuable are the side-effects of these very restrictions.

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nazgulnarsil
um...so do the townspeople collectively own the entire town? including each
other's lots? because if a lot is private property, nothing prevents me from
selling my lot to a condo builder. I think that you could have a system like
the one you describe be just, simply have people own shares in the town.
voting stock is a much better system than universal suffrage.

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wan23
I've been thinking about what would happen if I decided to work on my startup
full time in NYC, where I live now, and I always end up thinking that it would
be pretty hard to live in that "extremely low income" category. Does anyone
have any tips on how to really cut costs? Besides moving somewhere else of
course.

~~~
earl
I personally wouldn't live in NYC for less than $80K.

Reasons: you'll pay ~$1.5K / mo to live in dumpy but reasonably safe housing
with a roommate. That includes utilities which are _fucking expensive_ in NYC.
Also, it's humid as hell, so you will use your A/C 5-6 months per year. Make
sure you have it. Many apartments come without kitchens or with tiny,
dilapidated kitchens. Expect to eat out every meal.

The good news is there are lots of places to eat well for $6-$10 per meal.
This actually isn't that bad an idea when you look at the exorbitant price of
food in NYC.

You will pay city tax with a top marginal rate of ~3.5% (IIRC) after about
$60K or so of income. My numbers might be a little off but not that far.
Basically, if you make about $85K, you'll pay $3+K for the privilege of living
in the city. Sales tax is high too -- 9+%. Your apartment will be tiny so
you'll hang out with friends in restaurants or bars. You'll be shocked how
easy it is to spend $100 on a night out.

The only cheap thing in the city is low end food, metro passes, and cab fare.
Take advantage of them. Don't have a car -- it cost us $525/mo to park our car
in the city, and that's with free dents and attendants who stole all the
cables we left in it.

The bright side is this: if your expectation of public transit has been set by
SF -- where transit is complete shit -- you'll be amazed by the subway. Pay to
live near an express stop; it's worth it.

