
Skipping breakfast might help you lose weight - takee
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/08/10/the-science-of-skipping-breakfast-how-government-nutritionists-may-have-gotten-it-wrong/
======
zaroth
The more interesting question I think is not whether skipping breakfast might
help lose weight, it is whether the weight loss is due to lower overall
caloric intake, the timing of digestion reducing bioavailability, the timing
of when sugar became available to the body impacting targeted fat burn or
somehow enhancing the body's ability to burn fat cells, or maybe the types of
"breakfast" foods skipped, or just general impact on dietary choices,... or
maybe it was...

Obviously I think the study is asking too high-level a question, and barely
skimming the surface of how things work. Feels like the same sort of thinking
that produced the alternative finding.

~~~
flountown
Honestly, I think it is a mix of glycemic index being affected by the longer
fast and eating less. As I stated in my response below, my experience has been
that the fewer meals I eat, the less I overeat.

I know that last statement isn't anything groundbreaking, but if you can get
through the initial hunger created by changing your eating schedule, it can be
hugely beneficial to limiting your caloric intake.

------
flountown
At the end of the day it will always be calories in vs. calories out.

My personal experience is that I try to only eat 1 meal per day. Intermittent
fasting is nothing new, and when I combine it with a low carb diet, it is
extremely effective for me. I went from ~300 down to 225 in a matter of 4-5
months.

As long as I am busy, I hardly notice any hunger during the day now that I am
used to the schedule and the 1 meal makes it much harder to over eat. 2000
calories is extremely hard to take in all at once, so it basically puts you at
quite a deficit just due to the logistics of eating that quantity of food in a
small window of time.

~~~
eastbayjake
What do you eat and when do you eat it?

~~~
flountown
So most of my meals are very bachelor-like. Cook some sort of
protein(chicken/steak/fish) or eggs/meat/cheese in a pan on the stove and then
an entire steamable bag of frozen veggies of some sort. If I want to get
really fancy I will do either a stir fry or beef/turkey chili with some
veggies/beans mixed in. Depending on how busy I am during the day this can be
anywhere from 4-8 pm.

If I have hunger issues later on I will drink cold water or unsweetened
vanilla almond milk (It's crazy, IIRC, an entire half gallon is only 200
calories).

~~~
madcaptenor
Cashew milk is similarly low-calorie.

------
frankus
A couple of thoughts:

It's worth noting that both of the breakfasts in the study were high in high-
glycemic carbohydrates. It would be interesting to see if the result holds
when eating something like eggs and bacon for breakfast.

Second, since most people fast overnight, you get the double whammy of low
insulin (making fat cells more willing to give up stored energy) and a caloric
deficit in the morning. It seems plausible that extending the period of time
when that is the case would result in fat loss.

I've personally had pretty good luck (~34.5" to ~32.5" waist measurement over
a couple of weeks) with eliminating most carbohydrates between about 5PM and
10AM.

------
clessg
This is why it's hard to take the field of nutrition seriously.

"New study finds peach fuzz makes you lose weight"

5 years later

"New study finds peach fuzz makes you gain weight"

~~~
DanBC
Did you read the study? Or did you just read the report about the study?

~~~
clessg
I'm not criticizing the study, but rather lamenting the constantly-shifting
landscape that is the field of nutrition. Every few weeks or months, a new
study comes out claiming that everything we knew about nutrition before was
wrong.

It is profoundly discouraging for a lot of people.

~~~
vizeroth
This usually has little to do with the field of nutrition or the studies
themselves. It has to do with how the media reports the findings of the
studies, usually without properly understanding them and without putting them
into context. Everything has to be revolutionary, has to prove everything else
wrong, even though it's extremely difficult to perform a valid scientific
study that proves anything wrong.

My wife has a long-time friend who became a nutritionist, and she'll tell
anyone that will listen that most people have a pretty good idea of how to eat
right if they don't over-think it, but it becomes very difficult to put it
into practice, because everything we do to make food convenient tends to also
make it bad for us. Another issue is that medical doctors don't take
nutritionists seriously (despite medicine also being a constantly-shifting
landscape), and rarely pay attention to diet for anything other than
controlling your weight, blood sugar, and cholesterol. This is why we end up
with things like "Irritable Bowel Syndrome", which, for most people is likely
an undiagnosed food intolerance (and given the most common ingredients in
processed foods, it's probably soy or lactose).

------
kenesom1
Studies have shown that overweight people don't necessarily eat more calories
or have less active lifestyles than their normal weight peers [1][2][3][4].

A major factor that contributes to excess weight is the absorption rate of
dietary lipids in the gut, which can be influenced by anatomy, gut microbiota,
genetics, and other characteristics [5][6][7][8][9]. The rate at which the
body absorbs fat from food during digestion plays a key role.

[1]
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24527563](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24527563)

[2] [http://www.livescience.com/23057-overweight-teens-kids-
calor...](http://www.livescience.com/23057-overweight-teens-kids-calories-
weight-loss.html)

[3]
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22006481](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22006481)

[4]
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23320866](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23320866)

[5]
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3601187/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3601187/)

[6] [http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/brainwaves/the-food-
figh...](http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/brainwaves/the-food-fight-in-
your-guts-why-bacteria-will-change-the-way-you-think-about-calories/)

[7] [http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-gut-
bacteria-h...](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-gut-bacteria-
help-make-us-fat-and-thin/)

[8]
[http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/296/6/E1183.short](http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/296/6/E1183.short)

[9]
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3213306/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3213306/)

~~~
Evgeny
_Studies have shown that overweight people don 't necessarily eat more
calories or have less active lifestyles than their normal weight peers
[1][2][3][4]._

These appear to be observational studies based on self reporting. There are
multiple studies that showed overweight people underreporting their caloric
intake by up to 50%. Interestingly, people with normal and less than normal
weight ofter overestimate their caloric intake, such as [1].

There are enough clinically controlled studies done that prove that caloric
intake is the primary determinant of weight.

[1]
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1454084](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1454084)

~~~
kenesom1
The accuracy of self-reported energy intake using the 24-hour daily recall
method has been shown to be consistent across BMI levels:

"Accuracy of recall was not related to body mass index in that the obese men
recalled food intake as accurately as the nonobese men." [1]

Accelerometers were used in the Chinese study to measure physical activity:

"No differences in PA [physical activity] and SB [sedentary behavior] were
found across different BMI categories." [2]

A European study where the childrens' parents were doing the reporting rather
than the subjects themselves concluded:

"The data suggest the belief that overweight children eat more than non-
overweight children is not correct." [3]

Studies on identical twins showed that caloric intake didn't account for
differences in weight between twins. Specific types of gut bacteria present in
low-weight individuals were found to have a protective effect against obesity
however. [4][5]

There is little difference between the energy intake of most overweight people
and their normal weight counterparts. Factors like gut biology and intestinal
absorption play a much more important role.

The Nutrition Science Initiative was developed to address the need for more
clinical research in this area. [6]

[1]
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15054345](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15054345)

[2]
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11753586](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11753586)

[3]
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24527563](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24527563)

[4] [http://www.amazon.com/The-Diet-Myth-Science-
Behind/dp/029760...](http://www.amazon.com/The-Diet-Myth-Science-
Behind/dp/029760919X)

[5]
[http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/11/141106132204.ht...](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/11/141106132204.htm)

[6] [http://www.wired.com/2014/08/what-makes-us-
fat/](http://www.wired.com/2014/08/what-makes-us-fat/)

~~~
Evgeny
_The accuracy of self-reported energy intake using the 24-hour daily recall
method has been shown to be consistent across BMI levels:_

 _CONCLUSIONS: Under controlled conditions, the USDA five-step multiple-pass
method can_

Yes. We need controlled conditions.

 _" No differences in PA [physical activity] and SB [sedentary behavior] were
found across different BMI categories." [2]_

 _The parents of children recorded dietary intake for a week using the food
weighing method._

No. Please let the scientists weigh the food under controlled conditions.

 _A European study where the childrens ' parents were doing the reporting
rather than the subjects themselves concluded:_

No. Please let the scientists weigh the food under controlled conditions.

 _Studies on identical twins showed that caloric intake didn 't account for
differences in weight between twins._

The ScienceDaily link does not give much relevant information. So they found
sets of twins whose weight differs, and the gut bacteria composition differs.
Interesting. What did they do next to disprove that caloric input determines
body weight? Did they assign twins to certain diets to see how body weight
changes? No, and the word "calorie" is not even mentioned at all.

In fact, all I get from the article is correlation - lack or presence of
certain types of bacteria is correlated with body weight. Here's an easy
possible confounder: what if lack or presence of bacteria increases or lowers
the appetite, causing caloric intake to change and thus leading to weight gain
or loss?

 _The Nutrition Science Initiative was developed to address the need for more
clinical research in this area. [6]_

Yes. As long as all food is measured by the scientists and there is no
possibility the participants are getting extra food elswere, or not eating
what they are supposed to eat, I'm very eager to see the results.

------
Axsuul
Losing weight comes down to a pyramid. The bottom of the pyramid is a calorie
deficit. It's simple science and fact that eating less calories than your
maintenance calories (basal metabolic rate) will cause you to lose weight.
Once you tackle that, you can move up the pyramid and fine tune to maximize
the weight loss by incorporating tactics such as meal timing, quality of
ingredients, types of food eaten, or different macronutrient percentages. But
without the bottom of the pyramid, there can't be anything on top.

~~~
hngiszmo
I guess it's trivial what you say about calorie deficit but the trick is how
to not devour that tasty something that you know is there in your fridge when
your plan to eat less for a few seconds is only your second priority.

Humans get hungry after 4h of not eating with exception of when we sleep. So
less sleep results in more craving for food but eating a ton, minutes after
waking up results in hunger 4h later.

I wake up … with an appetite but usually don't crave for food for some hours,
so that's a good chance to if not skip then at least delay a meal, so
hopefully that day you go to bed with just two meals.

The opposite worst thing you can do is to stay up just a little longer to eat
on your way to bed.

~~~
vizeroth
The first trick is to not have that thing in your fridge, and I know as much
as anyone how hard that trick can be to pull off (one helpful part is to go to
the store after you eat). In fact, the only quick meal/snack I tend to have on
hand is oatmeal (or occasionally yogurt).

I regularly eat 10-12 hours after I wake up, and rarely feel hungry before I
hit the 10 hour mark, unless I make a habit of eating during that time period.
If I decide to follow a whim to eat breakfast on two or three consecutive
weekdays, I will be hungry at breakfast time on the following day, regardless
of what I ate the day before, or when I last ate. The worst part, though, is
that it sometimes takes longer for that hunger to stop coming at breakfast
time every day than it does to get it to start coming in the first place.

Something else that helps, for me, is to get at least some amount of exercise
first thing in the morning. I take a short (~1.5 mile) bike ride over a fairly
mild route (mostly flat or downhill) on most mornings (when it's not raining).
In my unscientific observation, it kick-starts my metabolism, which it needs,
since I'm definitely not getting exercise at work. After that, I primarily
have to keep my mind busy, as boredom typically leads to eating just to do
something.

------
hliyan
There's a 'natural/evolutionary' argument to be made in favor of skipping
breakfast too: most animals do not store food and need to hunt or forage as
and when hunger arises. This requires a certain amount of time and activity.
So it's unlikely that animals have evolved a need to eat first thing in the
morning.

~~~
lkrubner
Are you aware how broad a term "animals" is? The term includes hawks, ants,
turtles, snakes, trout, leeches, sharks, jellyfish, lions, coral, alligators
and many more. It includes all vertebrates, but it is not limited to
vertebrates. The diversity of eating habits in animals defies easy
generalizations. Maybe jellyfish do skip breakfast, but that does not tell you
whether humans should skip breakfast.

------
gaius
But no-one _really_ cares about weight - they care about body composition.
That is key to understanding all of this, and it's missing from these results.
Who cares if you lose weight if it's muscle wasting away? Who cares if your
weight stays the same but you're losing fat and gaining heavier muscle?

~~~
zaroth
But certainly they collected body composition data in the course of the study,
it just doesn't make the headlines?

~~~
dasil003
Yes, but I think it points out the major problem with health articles in
general is that culturally many people have reduced improved health in the
general sense to the mantra of "losing weight". Pretty soon people have
internalized it, and reading a sensational attempt at summarizing legitimate
scientific studies becomes just a token discarded atop of a huge pile of ideas
that people used to temporary assuage the regret of being a slave to the
hedonistic garden of delights manufactured for them by the food and
entertainment industries.

Okay, maybe I'm laying it on a bit thick, but seriously I think every single
person in America can come up with 5 no-brainer ways to improve their health
that would move the needle more than trying to eke out some mass effect of
eating breakfast or not, it's just that people want the easy fix, and frankly
there really is none. We just don't have the genetics or the instincts to cope
with the sedentary lifestyles we've created for ourselves, and the only way
out of it is get serious and develop healthy habits one bit at a time.

------
vezycash
I researched Yokozunas and here's my findings.

They skip breakfast every single day and exercise for at least 5 hours before
breakfast.

After lunch, they sleep. With plenty food and no physical activity, the body
converts the food to fat. Same thing happens after dinner - sleep.

Before electricity, people ate dinner before sun down. This left enough time
for some digestion and burning of excess energy.

My conclusion:

Skipping a meal is a great idea. The question is when. I've decided that the
best time to skip a meal is dinner - not breakfast. Or as I tell my friends,
Sleep Hungry.

Edit:

Yokozunas in Japan have perfected the art of inputting normal sized people and
outputting obese people. I figured doing the exact opposite is the key to
weight loss.

~~~
ginmugen
Any success?

~~~
vezycash
I'm not over weight. Just a beer belly I grew from college. It's reduced a
lot. The only exercises I do are 5 measely sit ups in the morning and cycling
at night (if I eat late to burn up the meal before sleep.)

------
pbiggar
The advice that "breakfast is the most important meal of the day" is, as I
recall, based on similar junk science. They looked at lots of kids, recorded
how often they ate breakfast, then looked at how well they did in school.

The kids who ate breakfast did better in school. Yay, breakfast is good for
you.

Or, possibly, the correlation between eating breakfast and doing well in
school has another explanation. One possible explanation of the correlation is
that kids who don't eat breakfast are poor, and the poor statistically dont do
as well in school due to other factors.

~~~
sanxiyn
Can you find this study? Many studies are dodgy, but I am incredulous the
study was this much dodgy. How can the study observing grade not controlling
for socioeconomic status ever pass the review?

------
mdekkers
Not eating makes you lose weight. Doesn't matter when you eat, eating less,
and eating better food (fresh, non-processed. If it doesn't run, grow on a
tree/plant, or swim, don't eat it) will make you lose weight.

~~~
prostoalex
> Not eating makes you lose weight.

Exception being the cases when it doesn't [http://bradpilon.com/weight-
loss/fasting-for-weight-loss/can...](http://bradpilon.com/weight-loss/fasting-
for-weight-loss/can-you-gain-weight-by-fasting/)

~~~
Evgeny
What he described in this article was not just fasting, but a sequence of
fasting and non-fasting days. Of course, if you fast for a day, and the next
day eat all the calories back and more, you will gain.

------
ghantila
Instead of skipping the breakfast, try not to eat after sun-set. Trust me,
you'll love the difference you'll see after a few months.

Disclaimer: I'm following this principle every single day from past 2 years.

------
brandonmenc
Skipping breakfast is part of the "carb backloading" diet. Seems to work well.

~~~
peterwwillis
You also have to lift weights of at least 70% of your max on a regular basis.
It also has a single specific limit on carb intake for every body type.

Sleep is probably the best diet in existence.

------
sjg007
I think it is more of a drink coffee lose weight argument.

------
VOYD
Yes, not eating helps you lose weight.

------
baby
I _never_ eat breakfast and I'm fat.

~~~
hngiszmo
Interesting. How long between last and first meal?

(Apart from the individual case not being representative.)

~~~
baby
usually eat at noon or after, then dinner. I don't snack, never eat sugar. I
think it's because of the portions I eat :| alcohol might be for something as
well.

~~~
jschwartzi
1 bottle of beer is usually between 100 and 300 carrots, depending on what
type of beer and how much alcohol is in it. Alcohol is a significant source of
calories.

Have you tried not drinking for a few months?

The rule of thumb I've heard is that 1 pound of weight can be lost with a 3500
calorie deficit. If you drink between 10 and 30 beets a week, cutting beer
could cause you to start losing weight.

~~~
redblacktree
carrots? beets? Thanks for the laughs, autocorrect.

~~~
jschwartzi
I'm not going to touch the parent in case anyone else needs a laugh.

------
wereHamster
Eating less helps you lose weight. News at eleven. Seriously, how difficult is
it to understand that? Once when I was in the US I had some pancakes for
breakfast and on the side was a huge chunk of white mass that looked like a
scoop of vanilla ice cream. I took a large bite and oh boy.. it was butter.
Plain butter. That chunk alone was about half of the calorie need of an
average young person. Oh, and then there was the maple sirup, chocolate, and
artificially sweetened orange juice. No wonder the US is so obese.

