
Indiana manipulated report on Amazon worker’s death, investigation says - donohoe
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/investigations/2019/11/25/amazon-indiana-governor-eric-holcomb-warehouse-accident-hq-2/4282653002/
======
erentz
A really clear case of corruption both at Amazon and within the state labor
departments. The fines are so small I’m not sure why Amazon didn’t just reject
corruption like this and do things right. Really just speaks to a company
culture completely lacking any morals.

~~~
criley2
Why would small fines mean they should behave correctly? Small fines make it
easy to justify as "cost of doing business". It's the large onerous fines
which incentivize them to do it the less-profitable and more-moral way,
because the fines cost more than doing it right.

Hate to be cliche, but reminds me of the opening scene in Fight Club where
Edward Norton's character describes how insurance adjusters(?) determine if a
recall is cheaper than the lawsuits from dead/injured people, they do it,
otherwise... they don't.

Why would Amazon behave less profitably? Simply because we perceive it to be
more moral?

~~~
CodeMage
> _Why would Amazon behave less profitably? Simply because we perceive it to
> be more moral?_

Yes. Why is this so controversial? Why are we okay with profits being more
important than ethics?

~~~
rebuilder
Corporations reliably do not care about morality more than they do about their
bottom line. If you want to push them into behaving ethically, you need tools
that work. Finger-wagging doesn't work. Hurting the bottom line might.

~~~
piva00
When I hear this argument the way my head translates it is "we need to create
a market for morality" which sounds quite absurd...

~~~
rebuilder
I tend to look at it from the perspective of "what can we do" more than "what
is right". While moral values certainly set the direction we should head in,
having strong values achieves no good in the world without practical action.

------
macintux
A long, compelling piece by The Atlantic covered this and other Amazon horror
stories this month.

[https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/11/amazo...](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/11/amazon-
warehouse-reports-show-worker-injuries/602530/)

~~~
nanoscopic
Additional story: [https://amazonandmykid.com](https://amazonandmykid.com)

( my own )

Suffice it to say Amazon does not care about employees, neither at the
warehouses nor at their corporate headquarters.

When I was there a guy jumped off a building because they wouldn't let him
switch off a toxic team. They also similarly tried to prevent me from
switching teams when I was there.

A week ago I was at one of the Amazon retail stores and an employee there
agreed that Amazon cares nothing for their employees. Obviously one should
take this with a grain of salt as this is just a random statement from a
random retail employee, but this is generally what I hear from Amazon workers
both current and ex.

The general word on the street in Seattle is "Amazon sucks" to the extent I've
heard Amazon employees referred to as Amholes.

~~~
jorblumesea
> The general word on the street in Seattle is "Amazon sucks"

Just about every dev that it's in the region knows this. It's why their
recruiters constantly spam talent in the region. Insane turnover, and you have
a very short shelf life due to burnout. It's also why their compensation is
mostly in stock. They know you won't last to collect your RSUs.

~~~
alasdair_
>It's also why their compensation is mostly in stock. They know you won't last
to collect your RSUs.

Not only that, the stock doesn't follow a typical vesting period like "4
years, with a one year cliff" but instead is HEAVILY weighted to later years,
so that at the end of year one you barely get any of it percentage-wise.

~~~
amznshill4
This is extremely misleading. A typical package looks something like:

    
    
      year 1: $150k cash + $100k bonus + $10k stock
      year 2: $150k cash + $80k bonus + $30k stock
      year 3+4: $150k cash + $110k stock
    

The bonuses vest linear, daily, so there's no clawback if you leave during the
first two years.

Realistically, it means that you only get into stock comp if you've stayed for
a few years and have decided that it's where you want to stay. Otherwise, you
just get a nice big pile of cash each month.

~~~
throwawaytemp1
it's misleading for new hires, amazon has to pay them well. but internal
growth at amazon is horrible and additional comp is heavily delayed

------
jtmarl1n
The Indiana Governor disputes the allegation:
[https://www.indystar.com/story/news/investigations/2019/11/2...](https://www.indystar.com/story/news/investigations/2019/11/25/indiana-
gov-eric-holcomb-disputes-interference-allegations-amazon-death-
investigation/4302895002/).

I find it interesting the whistle blower claims the governor attended a
meeting where pressure was applied to back off the investigation. The Governor
claims he never attended a meeting. Wouldn't this be an easy item to fact
check by getting records of meeting attendees?

~~~
zentiggr
Should be almost irrelevant if the mentioned recording with the director is
still around.

Just play that on the evening news every day until Amazon pays full death
benefits and punitive fines to the Terry family.

Oh yeah, and arraign the director on criminal conspiracy charges. And the
governor too.

~~~
jessaustin
They played an excerpt on the "Reveal" podcast the other day, so it's probably
still around...

~~~
zentiggr
I heard this morning one of the Reveal team staff interviewing on NPR.

Hope this stays in the news.

------
alexithym
I'd like to believe that this was a culture failure isolated to a single
fulfillment center, but that seems like a convenient way to absolve Amazon of
guilt.

At the end of the day, it's Amazon's responsibility to enforce a safety
culture in each and every fulfillment center, and failing to do so is
inexcusable.

------
Crontab
This is sad. I used to work in a warehouse and we were mandated to have
training in proper forklift use. There is no excuse for Amazon not conducting
proper training.

The Indiana officials who tried to cover this up should have their ass put in
a sling.

~~~
frankharv
How about Federal level OSHA refusing to get involved. That is seriously
messed up. He even had the audio of the IOSHA coverup and that was not enough
for OSHA?

Forklift training is one thing. Forklift maintenance is not something you
could easily teach. It is learned by years of on the job experience.

Something that Amazon was not willing to pay for with Forklift Maintenance
Mechanics.

Disgusting show from all parties involved. There should be a FBI investigation
and the Governors phone location data used. I bet the whistle-blower is right.

------
LastZactionHero
It's embarrassing to watch proud cities (my hometown) humiliate themselves
like game show contestants for this HQ.

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nottorp
<quote> Amazon’s corporate offices in Seattle gave a $1,000 campaign
contribution to Indiana’s governor. It was years before Holcomb would next
face reelection, and Amazon hasn’t donated to him before or since. </quote>

US state governors are this cheap? :)

~~~
darzu
Lobbyist are clever. It often isn't the money directly given that matters, but
the threat of giving money to the opponent.

------
ActorNightly
I highly doubt Amazon cares about $28000

~~~
ab71e5
That's what I thought.

Maybe it is about the state showing what it could do for Amazon in the future,
should they build their HQ there? Or maybe it is more about saving the image
of the company then the actual fine?

~~~
stevenwoo
It's mentioned in the Reveal (investigative radio news source) coverage that
Indiana had an active bid for HQ2 at the time the coverup happened.

~~~
jessaustin
That whole "new HQ" operation was a brilliant hoax. I hope the people who
pulled that off see at least _some_ of their options vest before they get laid
off.

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ksml
This article feels a little fishy to me. The title says an "investigation
says" "Indiana manipulated a report," but there's no evidence to suggest this
besides one person's claims and it doesn't seem there was any official
investigation into whether the report was manipulated. Also, all the figures
appear to be an order of magnitude off... All this fuss over only $28,000? And
a single $1,000 donation? That's a drop in the pond. I wouldn't be surprised
if there was indeed a lot of corruption in bidding for Amazon's HQ, but
something doesn't add up here for me.

~~~
jessaustin
The original article [0], which for some reason "indystar" doesn't care to
link, has links to source material.

[0] [https://www.revealnews.org/article/behind-the-
smiles/](https://www.revealnews.org/article/behind-the-smiles/)

