
Loneliness Is Hard on the Brain - yters
https://mindmatters.today/2018/11/researchers-find-loneliness-is-hard-on-the-brain/
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dawhizkid
As a gay man in SF I only just realized how different your social experience
is vs a straight male i.e. because gay men are, on average, less likely to
have kids, there is never a point in time (i.e. 30ish) when all your friends
start getting married, having kids, moving out of expensive urban centers,
settling down, etc. On the one hand it feels like you can (if you choose) live
out your 30s, 40s like a straight person would live out their 20s since more
of your gay friends will be in the same boat and thus maintain a social circle
in a way that might be harder if you're straight. On the other hand, not
everyone necessarily wants to live their adult lives like they do in their
20s.

~~~
mercer
This is fascinating. As someone diagnosed with ASD, I've often gravitated
towards gay people as close friends and in my social circle, and I think part
of it is that there's a certain overlap in characteristics (even if the cause
might be very different).

While it's possible that I might get married and have kids, I'd say this is
much less likely to happen for me. Furthermore, as I grow older I find it
increasingly difficult to 'keep up' with the lifestyle changes and increasing
'demands' that my 'neurotypical' friends go through. I've noticed this in
particular in the transition to my thirties. With my gay friends this somehow
feels like less of an 'issue'.

Another overlap, I suppose, is a feeling of not quite fitting in. This extends
beyond just my gay friends though, and includes expats, TCK's/'army
brats'/global nomads, and people with various disorders. But there does often
seem to be a sense of 'not quite fitting in, together' that can be incredibly
valuable.

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motohagiography
It's difficult to explain how broken real social networks are post-social
media.

First, friendships for men and women are different. The women (over 30) I know
are a kind of social glue who are the center of their networks, and they are
the ones organizing parties, dinners, events etc. However, as a man, if you
depend on others for your social network, you are going to lose it if you
don't have activity friends.

If you don't have activities, you are going to be a leaf node someone elses
network. For men, the most social activities I can recommend in order of
sociability are, volunteering and political parties/activity, fraternal
organizations e.g.
([https://www.netflix.com/ca/title/80240816](https://www.netflix.com/ca/title/80240816))
, team sports (hockey, soccer, etc) then things like group activities like
sailing, crossfit, golf(!), group cycling, outdoorsmanship like hunting,
camping, etc.

If you live in a city, it's extra hard. Treat your social network like
maintaining fitness or keeping up a skill, it requires exercise.

~~~
fjsolwmv
How is social media related? On average, men have always been the leaf nodes
on their wives' social networks.

~~~
motohagiography
That would be a bold statement. However, social media takes time that imposes
opportunity costs. While I can't source it now, when I read that most online
daters spent 12h on the site for every real life meeting, I deleted my
profiles and never went back.

The performative aspect of social media makes sincere connection difficult
because it makes people overly conscious about how it reflects their
presented, aspirational image, and that repels intimacy. It's a panopticon
where everyone lives in fear of imaginary judgement. It is a laughably narrow
and perverse status signalling game, with the civic merit of a slot machine in
every pocket.

When you compare time spent on social media to that spent on the things I
mentioned above, it would be hard to say it produces good people, let alone
ones worth knowing.

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mohsen1
How you make friends post 30? I'm struggling with this. Specially in places
like the Bay Area where people are really closed off to each other.

~~~
winchling
My theory is that bonds between people arise out of shared
suffering/challenges. Thus lifelong friends were often at school together, or
in the army, or somewhere else unpleasant, or at least occasionally so.
There's reduced scope for this after the age of 30, obviously, unless you take
up a dangerous sport or something else risky.

~~~
fjsolwmv
Not just your theory, that's textbook human psychology. That's why "hazing"
exists.

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peterlk
The claim is that we can't do this study on humans:

> Mice yanked out of their community and held in solitary isolation show signs
> of brain damage.

Don't we do this to prisoners? Seems like we could study this within the
boundaries of current cultural practices. Personally, I'm not a fan of this
treatment, but this would give weight (or not) to the argument that we
shouldn't be doing it.

~~~
chrisco255
Yeah and I think solitary confinement is reserved for the worst prisoners that
act out in prison...but it's effects on human psychology are pretty well
documented.

~~~
joewee
Not always the case, it’s up to the prison staff to decide what type of
behavior warrants solitary confinement. Based on what I’ve seen in
documentaries, for example both people in a fight might be placed in solitary,
victim and perpetrator. It’s also common for political prisoners, “high
profile” inmates.

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hyperpallium
> mice in large enclosures packed with toys, mazes and things to climb. When
> some of the animals reached adulthood, they were taken out and put
> individually into “a typical shoebox cage"

sensory deprivation != subjective loneliness

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qnsi
Why is noone doing anything about this?

There are no startups in this except for meetups.

Why dont some non-profit organize meetings to find loneliness?

Why there is no volunteering opportunities that focus on making friends first
and only second helping the cause?

~~~
gowld
I recall an extremely successful startup from 2000 years ago that attacked
this problem, and continues to this today. It's greatest competition is from
all the otehr startups of the past 2 decades ;-)

~~~
OpenBSD-reich
I've often thought there needs to be a 'church' for Atheists, basically a
carbon copy of the modern churches but with jesus and bible stripped out
completely. The social grouping is therapeudic and I think the religion meme
hitches to this for continuation and longevity.

The other possibility is to make dues-free fraternal organizations. Churches
are payment-optional so why not payment-optional frats? Say dues payment
halves bar prices (and no-dues prices are somewhat uncomfortably high).

~~~
snthd
There is, of course -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_Assembly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_Assembly)
.

It's non-religious rather than atheistic.

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shaunpersad
I feel like there is this blanket, universally accepted fact that humans are
social creatures. But I can't help but feel like it's not the whole story.

This feeling comes from my own experiences that I am at my happiest, best self
when I'm alone. And I don't understand how starkly this contrasts from what I
hear from others and from studies such as this one.

This isn't a "I'm an introvert" or "people suck" anecdote. This is something
that I repeatedly try to objectively access and measure, and almost every time
my body responds better to being alone. The less people I have in my life, the
better I feel. The more time I spend by myself, the better I feel. The less I
speak to anyone, the better I feel.

It might be a bit ironic to ask this, but am I alone in this feeling?

~~~
wickoff
That's very odd. At one point on my life I spent about a year working from
home, single, without friends in real life. The psychological damage I've
caused myself was very obvious.

If solitude makes you happy it takes very little effort to isolate yourself.

~~~
scotty79
> If solitude makes you happy it takes very little effort to isolate yourself.

Not if you are in relationship.

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ohiovr
Long term solitary confinement is common severe evil done to prisoners.

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amelius
Is sitting behind a computer 8 hours per day comparable to loneliness, as far
as brain health is concerned?

~~~
copperx
I would tend to say no if you're actively working and not using it as escapism
to avoid social interaction or as a refuge of a solitary life. As with all
things, you must be aware of what you're doing to yourself; but that is easy
to forget.

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mercurialshark
In Lonely at the Top, the author identities the key variables to adult
friendship as i) proximity ii) frequency of spontaneous encounters iii) things
in common.

As a child, authentic friendship often occurs with relative ease as kids go to
school they are i) within close proximity ii) seen regularly and iii) can play
games on the playground/share low-barrier activities together.

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chiefalchemist
As I read more and more on gut bacteria and general health, I have to believe
that gut bacteria as factor into these ill effects. That is, with less
exposure to others, your gut is less diverse.

Or looked at from another perspective, studies have shown that couples live
longer, as do people with dogs (and cats?). But those relationships also
exposure you to the bacteria of others. That's a positive. Flip it around, and
less exposure will undermine the diversity of your gut and eventually your
overall health.

~~~
embsugar
Do you meant seratonin? Because I have huge issues with my digestive and also
huge issues with major depressive disorder. Both are an influence by my lack
of seratonin. It’s proved that a deficieny that leads to both.

~~~
chiefalchemist
Nope. Gut bacteria. It's being linked to more and more physical and mental
ailments.

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tristan_shatley
Anybody wanna be friends?

~~~
xapata
Sure. But only if we're neighbors and approximately the same age +/\- 10
years.

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wokawoka
I beg to differ - I get too many "please do that, help me with that, could
you..., would you...i'll pay you back". Loneliness is pure bliss because
people ask me to do sh8t.

~~~
ttamslam
From the article: "Loneliness is understood in this type of research as an
emotional state rather than a physical one. We can be lonely in a crowd or
delighted with an entire week of solitude to finally finish a project. It’s
the emotional state that is bad for human health."

