
Inventor who built an Iron Man-style flight suit has flown it at TED - 10dpd
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-39441825
======
bhouston
A much much better video with a lot more details, accidents, back story,
etc.... but it is covered with Red Bull logos:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=291&v=JinhIHIF8E...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=291&v=JinhIHIF8Eo)

~~~
joelrunyon
Red Bull consistently does some of the best advanced extreme sports out there.
Awesome to have a company like that backing up their ethos and I'm happy to
look at their logo because of the basic fact of how cool the stuff they're
doing is.

This is content marketing done right.

~~~
godzillabrennus
The only downside is that they are effective at promoting a beverage that is
likely to have a negative impact on the health of the consumers who partake.

~~~
joelrunyon
Not liking the product is different than not appreciating the quality of the
marketing.

------
aphextron
I'm far more interested in what these guys are working on with the Flyboard
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wObBrd9wB6M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wObBrd9wB6M)).
Way more controllable and practical, and equally mind blowing.

~~~
sandworm101
Jetpacks are officially dead. The advantages of not lifting your own o2, of
burning fuel using air, means that systems based on rockets are now done.

~~~
rm445
Then perhaps your first sentence should have read, "Rocket packs are
officially dead".

I think that the terms have historically been used interchangeably, but the
distinction should be made. It's awfully nice not to need to carry oxidiser
for your propellant.

~~~
sandworm101
A rocket is something with only an exhaust. A jet also has an intake. And it
goes a little further than just not lifting the 02. Any unburnt gas (air)
becomes a 'working fluid' that can be pushed. A rocket moves by throwing gas
away at speed. Jets also grab gas from the air and accelerate it along with
exhaust products. That's why a jet or turbofan can have a high specific
impulse with such a low exhaust velocity, higher (>8k) than even an ion
thruster in vacuum.

------
MrBuddyCasino
Hackaday discussion: [https://hackaday.com/2017/04/13/daedalus-jet-suit-takes-
to-t...](https://hackaday.com/2017/04/13/daedalus-jet-suit-takes-to-the-
skies/)

It was noted that at least some shots were most likely fake. I guess this
validates it as real?

~~~
Robotbeat
It was noted by someone in the comments. I think I disagree. I don't see why
this couldn't work, and the jet engines in question do produce sufficient
thrust and are cheap enough that you could buy like 6 of them (52lbf thrust
each), with a total of 312lbf of thrust, enough for this kind of project, for
the price of a new car:
[http://www.chiefaircraft.com/jc-p200-rx.html](http://www.chiefaircraft.com/jc-p200-rx.html)

How much does a good rigging setup cost plus good professional video editing
software to edit out such lines? I suspect it's not even much cheaper than
making this work. (Particularly since you need to buy the jet engines anyway.)

I always wonder why people think something is fake when the real thing would
actually be easier (if more dangerous) and cheaper than faking it.

~~~
MrBuddyCasino
If you look at the specific time code mentioned, you can clearly see that the
back of his shirt is lifted by something that looks like an invisible cable,
and that his movement in the air indeed looks like he's being pulled.

But then the astronauts walking on the moon didn't look real to some people
either, so we should definitely give him the benefit of the doubt.

~~~
saalweachter
Eh, it's always been my understanding that the problem with rocket packs (and
by extension, this) was fuel. Wingless flight -- and believe it or not,
helicopters are "winged" flight, which is why they can "glide" (autorotate) --
requires insane fuel consumption.

Someone figuring out how to strap jet engines to themselves and not instantly
die is impressive, but it's not really solving the hard problem. The "10
minutes" claim is probably already based on loading up with the maximum amount
of fuel the person can carry - add more and you don't get off the ground
without adding another engine, which burns more fuel...

So I find the claim totally believable, and impressive for what it is, but
it's not the sort of thing that has me reaching for my wallet to throw money
at the guy.

~~~
Robotbeat
Agreed. And I think the comparison with a jet ski or other recreational
vehicle is apt: this is for fun and show, for extreme sports, and perhaps some
military or rescue applications. But pretty sweet nonetheless.

(Jet ski not the perfect analogy as jet skis are fairly safe and it's not
unheard of for people who live on islands to use them for errands, etc, but
yeah most people seem to use them for fun.)

You could extend the range and flight time by using a wingsuit, allowing up to
a glide ratio of 3 or 4 without using structures other than the human body.
But wingsuit flying and this iron man suit thing require immense strength, so
physical exhaustion is probably even more of a constraint in this situation
than fuel consumption.

~~~
rawland
Wingsuit and jet engines strapped to a human body?

Exists: Jetman - Yves Rossy (also a TED Video)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2sT9KoII_M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2sT9KoII_M)

Enjoy. ;-)

(That guy crosses the English channel at ~3:50.)

~~~
Robotbeat
Absolutely, however Yves Rossy's wing is rigid (cheating! :) ) and the setup
requires diving off from an airplane (or a cliff or tall building) and landing
with parachute.

I was just talking about keeping the vertical take-off, vertical landing and
just adding extra material flaps between the arms and legs like a wingsuit to
extend range and endurance.

------
tsaprailis
My question when I first saw this was where do you get such jet engines? They
look small enough to be from any kind of plane/UAV, but also quite large for
any small model aircraft.

I wonder how easy it is to get one, do you by any chance need any sort of
special license to operate them?

~~~
sanswork
Look for model jet engines they get to be surprisingly big. I haven't looked
them up in a number of years but I wanted to build a jet powered bike in a
previous life and if I remember right the only thing stopping me was price.
Also runtime sucked for them all.

~~~
Robotbeat
For between about $2500 and $4500 (depending on thrust), you can get a small
model jet engine: [http://www.chiefaircraft.com/radio-control/turbine-
engines/j...](http://www.chiefaircraft.com/radio-control/turbine-
engines/jetcat.html)

I love these things. I love enabling gadgets that enable hobbyists and garage
entrepreneurs to do crazy things like this that would normally require a
military program to fund.

------
joshu
Here is my own video of him flying.

[https://youtu.be/xSHDK1Ja8x8](https://youtu.be/xSHDK1Ja8x8)

------
H4CK3RM4N
I thought the point of Iron Man's suit was that the Arc Reactor allowed for
stupidly high powered "repulsor beams", which then allowed for force/heat to
the generated. This just seems like another Jetpack style design.

~~~
BenMosher
I feel like the combo of arm + leg + back thrusters and an exoskeleton are
sufficient to warrant the analogy.

~~~
mattmanser
Interesting that it looks like he ditched the leg thrusters and switched to a
back pack, I wonder if trying to control all limbs at once was too
complicated.

~~~
joelrunyon
If you've flown anything like the flyboard - it's quite a bit like
snowboarding where the balance required from your feet quickly wears out your
leg muscles.

Controlling power from your backpack doesn't wear the body down nearly as
much.

[1] Flyboard -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4Bm3cs9TFo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4Bm3cs9TFo)

~~~
ralfd
Even better: Flyboard Air

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deyMNPbaRpA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deyMNPbaRpA)

It looks insane. Though more Green Goblin than Iron Man.

~~~
greenhatman
That really does look insane. I wonder if this type of thing would be
practical in the military. I guess it would probably make soldiers too
vulnerable for the most part.

~~~
Neliquat
But perfect for a 'One man army' movie. Or recruiting film. Cough cough.

------
apaprocki
This seems like the latest April 4th, 2017 flight test:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hT__fdxWig](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hT__fdxWig)

------
teddyh
Going by the video, it’s less of a “flying” suit and more of a “hover” suit.

~~~
Fradow
Quote from the text:

"Mr Browning said it is easily capable of flying at 200mph (321km/h) and an
altitude of a few thousand feet.

But, for safety reasons, he keeps the altitude and speed low."

~~~
SideburnsOfDoom
> "it is easily capable of an altitude of a few thousand feet. But, for safety
> reasons, he keeps the altitude and speed low."

Sure.

I have watched some of the video, and at no point does he sustain a height
high enough to stop benefiting from ground effect.

Hovering for maybe 10 seconds at 5 meters up would do it.

Until he does demonstrate this, I shall choose not to believe him, and won't
consider this actual "flight". For much the same reason that an Ekranoplan is
not actually an aircraft.

See also:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_effect_(aerodynamics)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_effect_\(aerodynamics\))

or comments last time this device was on hacker news:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13993728](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13993728)

~~~
Robotbeat
Ground effect in this case would be virtually non-existent because of the
extremely small disk loading in the case of those miniature jet engines. The
ratio of the jet diameter to each jet's height off the ground shows that the
ground effect is pretty small in this case. Probably less than 1 percent
thrust increase in the case where the jets are attached to his arms and back
according to this graph:
[http://www.copters.com/aero/pictures/Fig_2-39.gif](http://www.copters.com/aero/pictures/Fig_2-39.gif)
(This graph proves that he's getting essentially zero ground effect.)

The actual exhaust velocity of those jets is extremely high, and for a lot of
the video he is holding the jets at a significant angle with respect to
vertical, giving cosine losses. With a thrust to weight ratio of over 1, I
have no doubt he could achieve extremely high speeds (yeah, 200mph or over)
given even a slight amount of lift from his body in horizontal(ish) flight.

~~~
SideburnsOfDoom
> Ground effect in this case would be virtually non-existent

Then it should be easy for him to demonstrate a sustained hover at 5 or more
meters up. Or if it's not a lack of power, does he not have the necessary fine
control do do that?

~~~
Robotbeat
How would you like to fall from 5 meters height while carrying 6 lit jet
engines and a bunch of flammable liquid on your back?

The answer is pretty obviously safety. That, and I doubt flying is terribly
reliable either given he is doing it with muscles and his muscle memory (super
impressive, by the way), so if he did it over water just to prove a point,
there's a good chance he'd ruin tens of thousands of dollars worth of
equipment.

~~~
rm445
He could fly to five metres attached to a safety line on a ten-metre tower, or
a crane. A simple auto-descender would do fine.

My impression watching this guy's videos when they have hit the news over the
past few months has been that, for whatever reason, it skims the ground and
can't ascend. If he wants to disprove that, it should be possible to rig up a
safe test.

~~~
Robotbeat
As far as I can tell, they're working on a garage budget. A ten meter tower
and crane is non-trivial to rent and setup.

No reason to disprove something that is disprovable with a basic understanding
of basic physics and aerodynamics.

I expect the big challenge with a device like this is NOT ascending too high
where you'd be at risk of breaking a leg or thousands of dollars worth of red-
hot jet turbine. This isn't a drone, it's a flying person.

------
agumonkey
Great, now we can have real live incarnation of Iron Man vs Green Goblin
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQLAUFhIxm4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQLAUFhIxm4)

------
accountyaccount
Seems like an easy way to become a double amputee.

~~~
adrianN
Then you can attach the jet engines directly to your stumps. You save some
weight too!

~~~
ceejayoz
That's the spirit.

------
ChuckMcM
Fun, it seems there are two versions he's been trying; one with leg thrusters
on his calf and one where those thrusters are on the backpack. Watching the
video I imagine holding the harm thrusters down to feel a bit like you're
holding your self up on parallel bars.

------
jlebrech
could tethered electric ducted fans raise someone in a wingsuit to a suitable
altitude? as an alternative to this.

------
idiot74
> He was inspired by his father, an aeronautical engineer and inventor, who
> killed himself when Mr Browning was a teenager.

Was this really necessary? Imagine the reaction of the guy: "Oh cool, there's
a bbc article on me.. oh... :(".

~~~
weego
I don't think it's a spoiler for him at this point in life.

~~~
idiot74
Yeah but it can be unpleasant when other people casually bring up tragedies
about your life randomly when the context isn't quite right.

------
technotarek
[http://i.imgur.com/fFyJYtq.gif](http://i.imgur.com/fFyJYtq.gif)

------
1ba9115454
I can't wait to see my girlfriends face when I land in the back garden wearing
one of these.

------
ijafri
spoiler: it's not an iron-man style.

>TED 2017: UK 'Iron Man' demonstrates flying suit (Original title of the post)

Keyword analysis: TED, BBC, Ironman.

Conclusion: British Clickbait.

~~~
bhouston
It has jets in the rough location of the hands. Very similar to Ironman, just
not with the compact form factor that he has.

------
tener
> He was inspired by his father, an aeronautical engineer and inventor, who
> killed himself when Mr Browning was a teenager.

Inspired he was; his invention clearly has the potential to kill the user. He
may end up doing the same thing his father did, though surely I don't wish him
such fate.

~~~
eps
Who peed in your espresso this morning?

~~~
tener
The espresso machine is broken. You can see why I'm upset!

Seriously though, there is a long (and sad) tradition of flying machine
inventors (or engineers) getting killed by their own inventions. Looking at
this particular one it has all the flashy features ('Look! I am the Iron
Man!') and none of the safety ones.

~~~
psyc
Paraglider here. Having met many hundreds of flying contraption enthusiasts,
I'd say as a population we're much less bothered about maiming and killing
ourselves than average.

~~~
nsxwolf
From "The World's Fastest Indian"

Tom: Aren't you scared you'll kill yourself if you crash?

Burt Munro: No... You live more in five minutes on a bike like this going flat
out than some people live in a lifetime.

