
This is a blog post that’s incredibly confusing and painful for me to write - schrodingersCat
http://blog.maxistentialism.com/post/91476212698/this-is-a-blog-post-thats-incredibly-confusing
======
eggbrain
Let me begin by saying that this is frustrating for all groups involved. But I
wanted to specifically address what Max really can or cannot do regarding this
situation.

1\. I understand those that say that he should sue. But think of it this way:
even if he goes through a long lawsuit to sue and wins, he still comes up
worse for wear: people who hated him to begin with will just say he "bought"
his freedom with high priced lawyers, and the publicity the trial would
generate would just hurt him more no matter what the outcome.

2\. What's frustrating to me is even in these HN comments, the fact that he
_isn't_ suing is somehow proof that there might be more to the story! You end
up not winning -- not going to trial is because you know the "truth" might
come out, and going to trial and winning will still prove that you might still
be guilty, but celebrity status/money helped you.

3\. Other people argue he should / should not have posted this blog post. But
again, it's a catch-22: if you don't publish the blog post, it's because you
are trying to bury the story because there might be some truth to it. But if
you do publish it, now people think you aren't telling _the whole truth_ and
are just spinning it to get people on your side!

So really, no matter what you do, there's no good solution. If you sue, your
victory will be Pyrrhic at best. If you don't sue, you're hiding something. If
you post a response, you are spinning it. If you don't post, you're hiding
something.

Worse yet, defending Max can end up being a lose-lose situation as well. If I
believe Max's story, and defend him in forums/communications, that can portray
me as being a sympathizer to sexual offenders rather than victims, which would
anger me very much.

Sexual assault is a travesty. Period. And victims already have many times a
hard enough time coming forward and talking about it, yet alone going to the
police -- under the assumption that they might not be believed or that they
will be shamed. But we need to make sure that there is justice for all,
without hurting either side. We still have a long way to go.

~~~
beachstartup
so basically, we live in a society where anyone's reputation can be instantly,
completely and forever ruined, at will, by someone leveling a rape accusation
on the internet.

~~~
knowtheory
This is one of the reasons why having adequate legal recourse is so important.
The incompetence and inadequacy of the criminal justice system injures us all.

In an ideal world we would simply say "where is the evidence, this should be
sorted out in a trial". But given that the cops are so hostile to sexual
assault victims, forensics which aren't processed for _decades_
([http://www.npr.org/2014/01/25/266275211/tested-at-last-
rape-...](http://www.npr.org/2014/01/25/266275211/tested-at-last-rape-kits-
giving-evidence-to-victims-stories) ) and a legal system which will try the
credibility of victims, it's hard to blame any sexual assault victim who shies
away from reporting.

In the end, unanswered questions persist.

~~~
mreiland
This is a social problem, not a legal problem.

The day when these sorts of accusations from a man against a woman carries the
same weight with the same debilitating effects, _then_ we can start talking
about the legal problems.

Until then, this is about the bias our society as a whole has against men with
respect to the rape issue, and woman understanding this.

~~~
gametheoretic
(I'm more on your side than not.)

What does it even mean for 'society' to 'have a bias'? That individuals in
group G fare worse in situation S, all other things being equal, than
individuals in other groups? If you have a better reading, please let me know.
If not, we have disembarked too far from the cognitive for bias, an inherently
cognitive thing, as our explanation.

Look at my name and call me a hammer-nail guy, but here's what I think: it
comes down to options - yours, others', your expectation of others', theirs of
yours, and most especially the resulting interplay of all of the above. Human
beings are the situation you put them in.

You and I (and Max Temkin and Julian Assange) have a grounded reason for a
general fear of false rape accusation: that option is available to any woman
we've ever spent an hour with. Is any individual, no matter her motivations,
terribly likely to exercise that option? No, but that's not the disturbing
part. The disturbing part is, there's no recourse once they do - no options.

But why! Why are there no options? Because rape is the exact thing that it is:
a grievous crime whose lasting scars are emotional more often than physical.
Anything else, it's different: show me the dead body, show me the stolen
thing, what have you. If you're a woman, and some dude rapes you but somehow
there's no physical scarring and no dna and no webcam recording and no
witnesses-- an altogether plausible scenario, we can all agree-- then fuck
you, says the legal system. No options. Not that the legal system has an
option in the matter either; you can't have a system that sends people to jail
for decades on testimony without evidence. No options here, no options there,
no options everywhere, for everyone.

We, by which I mean the public, tend to believe the accuser, in my personal
opinion, a) because some fraction of the public is women who have been exactly
there, with no options, and see themselves in the accuser (regardless of
whatever the real truth of the matter may be), and b) _because_ they don't
believe their voice matters anyway. Perhaps secretly, but all the same. Your
girlfriend's opinion on Ben Roethlisberger's guilt of rape will, she is well
aware, have zero legal effect. But it's your potential no-option situation,
not hers, on your mind when you challenge her living room accusations for lack
of evidence. A challenge which she can't answer because rape is the thing that
it is.

~~~
mreiland
> What does it even mean for 'society' to 'have a bias'?

[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/22/adria-
richards_n_29...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/22/adria-
richards_n_2932686.html)

"He has three children and is now unemployed. "

------
eykanal
While it's very chivalrous of him to not want to lawyer up, what he's
describing is libel, pure and simple. This "friend" of his did something
completely inappropriate, and is liable to cause significant monetary damage,
a possibly permanent stain on his reputation, and significant psychological
distress.

Not pursuing this through the appropriate venues—the legal system—simply lets
her "get away with it". That's not being nice to her, that's being in an
abusive relationship and not speaking up for yourself.

~~~
mef
It's somewhat troubling that this top-rated comment and all its children
assume this can only be a false accusation.

I can only assume that this is the case with many rape accusations, especially
those from years ago, though what limited research there is suggests false
rape accusations are rare (2-8%).

The horrible part about it is that when an accusation like this is made,
either one person or the other will potentially have their life destroyed, but
the alternatives for both parties are also horrible: for the victim to stay
silent, or for the falsely accused to not defend themselves.

~~~
mistermann
From the article:

> That is my rapist. Having his face pop up on my news feed unexpectedly in
> any context has the capacity to ruin my day. Seeing him praised in the press
> is giving me a panic attack.

This is _classic_ SJW (Social Justice Warrior) / Tumblr language. Many within
this community genuinely believe a man is raping a woman literally by only
looking at her. No, this is not a joke.

For some representative examples of how insane those within this movement are,
there are plenty of examples posted on reddit:

[http://www.reddit.com/r/tumblrinaction](http://www.reddit.com/r/tumblrinaction)

I don't doubt this girl genuinely believes she was raped, but I'm quite
confident her definition of rape is vastly different than the mainstream
definition.

~~~
ponytail
What a terrible thing to say. What she wrote sounds like classic _Post
Traumatic Stress Disorder_. I have PTSD myself and this is exactly the kind of
thing that triggers it.

As for the Cards against Humanity game, let that be "exhibit A".

~~~
icebraining
I agree that what mistermann said is wrong. But I find your claim that Cards
Against Humanity are any kind of evidence appalling. Does that extend to the
whole team? Are all of them potential rapists because they enjoy making those
cards? What about the buyers?

Humor is humor, nothing more.

~~~
tedks
>Humor is humor, nothing more.

What an utterly false, utterly stupid thing to say. If you think humor is
removed at all from misogyny and racism you are willfully blind.

------
Mikeb85
And yet another example of why public shaming is bad.

If rape did happen, bring it before the courts. If not, don't ruin peoples'
lives. And don't wait 10 years to accuse someone.

Who knows what really happened. Were they both blackout-drunk? Was it really
awkward and bad? Maybe she consented and then regretted it? Maybe it was rape,
in which case she should have reported it 10 years ago... Is she trying to
cash in since he's slightly more successful than the stereotype of a
philosophy major?

~~~
VeejayRampay
I'm not going to discuss this particular case, which I know nothing about, but
generally speaking, I think it's fairly to look at it from a distance and say
"Maybe it was rape, in which case she should have reported it 10 years ago".

I am not an expert on the matter, but for many rape victims, it is not as easy
as it sounds. A lot of different factors come into play when trying to muster
the courage to go report a life-shattering incident such as rape. Guilt, fear
of not being taken seriously, facing the incident once again, anguish about
legal procedures, etc.

Can't emphasize this enough, it's not something you can look at rationally and
say "That person should have done that".

~~~
Mikeb85
I'm sure its not easy.

But making an accusation on Twitter is all too easy.

In our society, when a crime occurs we want justice. Mob anger on the internet
isn't justice.

------
danso
FWIW, here's the apparent tweet that was forwarded to the OP, with the ensuing
(and vague) discussion:

[https://twitter.com/paulidin/status/487237076413612034](https://twitter.com/paulidin/status/487237076413612034)

I saw another tweet from Andy Baio saying that the victim would release her
side of the story on an online site (the link he gave was blank,
though)...whatever the events, it probably wasn't ideal for a "friend of a
friend" to make such a conclusive indictment, for either the OP or for the
accuser.

~~~
mkal_tsr
I find it interesting that someone comes along and says, "No one can have a
proper dialogue about this here" which then leads to a response of "What you
are doing is silencing the victim & being complicit in rape culture. So yeah,
that IS you." which seems to directly prove his opinion that you cannot have
proper dialogue about sensitive topics on Twitter.

~~~
throwaway5752
It was basically the stupidest conversation I've ever seen. Lot of people with
opinions on a matter they know nothing about (and I can say with no
reservation that any of them know the circumstances around what happened).

People are just gullible, and the internet hasn't helped. I swear you could
tweet that Einstein was a purple midget and as a result 5 people would go
their graves believing it.

------
slg
>It is entirely possible she read something completely different than I did
into an awkward college hookup.

Absent any further evidence from either party and giving both the benefit of
the doubt, doesn't this seem like the most likely explanation? It isn't that
uncommon for two people to have two completely different takeaways from the
same event. If you throw in the probable lack of experience of the two
parties, the likelihood that alcohol was involved, and the admission by one of
the participants that they lacked communication skills, those odds would
seemingly skyrocket.

This is the reason for the whole 90's politically correct era of asking
permission before every escalation. That is the best way to prevent this
possible scenario until both parties gain the experience, the communication
skills, the confidence, and the level of safety to properly convey what the
want from the situation.

~~~
mreiland
Possible, but not probable. 19 is not 15 and having sex for the first time
ever.

One wonders why she didn't accuse him of rape at the time.

~~~
nrmitchi
I really think you are jumping to a conclusion here that 19 years olds are
sexually experienced.

~~~
mreiland
Do I think a 19 year old is generally going to be as open about sex as a 39
year old?

no.

do I think a 19 year old isn't going to accidentally rape someone?

yes.

Just how many years of experience do you think it takes before one can avoid
accidentally raping someone?

~~~
icebraining
Why do you assume a 19 year has any sexual experience whatsoever? According to
this study[1], 30+% of men hadn't.

[1] Mosher WD, Chandra A, Jones J. Sexual behavior and selected health
measures: Men and women 15–44 years of age, United States, 2002

~~~
mreiland
shame on you.

[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16250464](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16250464)

> RESULTS:

Among adults 25-44 years of age, 97 percent of men and 98 percent of women
have had vaginal intercourse; 90 percent of men and 88 percent of women have
had oral sex with an opposite-sex partner; and 40 percent of men and 35
percent of women have had anal sex with an opposite-sex partner. About 6.5
percent of men 25-44 years of age have had oral or anal sex with another man.
Based on a differently worded question, 11 percent of women 25-44 years of age
reported having had a sexual experience with another woman. The public health
significance of the findings is described.

~~~
icebraining
We were talking about 19-years-old, not 25-44. Just because the abstract
mentions those ages doesn't mean that's the only data available in the study.

Here's the study with the graph; as you can see, only 69% of 19-year-old men
had had vaginal intercourse (i.e., sex):
[http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad362.pdf](http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad362.pdf)

~~~
mreiland
of which the OP is automatically not in the demographic of, seeing as how
we're talking about a sexual encounter he had.

It isn't that difficult to avoid accidentally raping someone. Seriously. Why
is this something that needs to be argued? 19 is not 15, period.

------
sergiotapia
"I spoke with my lawyer, and she thinks I have a clear case to sue this woman
for libel and get a restraining order, but I have no desire to bully or harm
her."

You have the money to defend yourself, you are luckily able to fight back
against these fabrications. What if you were less fortunate? You would be
-fucked- my friend. You should definitely sue her ass for libel.

~~~
untog
_What if you were less fortunate? You would be -fucked- my friend._

It sounds like this is kind of exactly what he doesn't want - to somehow
represent or stand up for total strangers who were also accused of sexual
assault. And I can see why.

If he sues her for libel what, exactly, does he get out of it? Ironically,
he'd get a lot more attention than has already been paid to the topic. I doubt
he wants that, either.

------
shkkmo
The victim should have reported the rape when it occured. I will always
support that choice on the part of the victum.

Not reporting rape when it occurred is not the fault of the victim.

However, she leveled public accusations 10 years later when the only chance of
evaluating the accusations is the word and unreliable memories of the two
people involved.

Now, even that isn't necessarily a bad thing. She should have that right, and
people should come forward in case there are other silent, more recent,
victims.

Unfortunately, internet culture involves people thinking that they somehow
have the ability and responsiblity to judge the truth of these accusations and
then publicly voice that opinion. I wish fewer people on this thread were
doing that.

We need to have a safe, secure, victim friendly system for logging these types
of accusations, investigating them, looking for corroboration, and then strict
guidelines for publicizing these accusations even if the statue of limitations
has expired.

Public shaming works, the court of public opinion doesn't.

The most honorable thing in that whole post is this:

"You will not harass or threaten the woman making these claims. I am not
looking for a mob of people carrying pitchforks on my behalf. If you harass
her or go after her in any way, you are not a friend of mine, and you are not
a friend of Cards Against Humanity."

------
vezzy-fnord
_We removed all of the “rape” jokes from Cards Against Humanity years ago.
We’ll continue to use the game as best we can to “punch up” and not “punch
down.”_

Is this the same _Cards Against Humanity_ that I'm thinking of? Because I'm
pretty sure that game "punches down" quite hard.

~~~
boucher
Although I realize that on some level it's just not my kind of humor, I
honestly think this game is pretty disgusting and I'm surprised by how popular
it is.

~~~
meowface
I've actually never met someone who was offended or disgusted by it, excluding
those who are socially conservative or religious. That may also be due to the
fact that I'm still in the 18-25 age group though.

~~~
colanderman
I'm neither socially conservative nor religious nor over 30, yet I think it's
horse shit. It's like everything I hate about Reddit distilled into a deck of
cards.

Somehow all my friends love it; I personally don't care to imagine midgets
ejaculating into dismembered bodies regardless of the context. I guess I just
don't understand the humor of shock.

I usually find an excuse to leave a party sooner after CAH gets pulled out,
whether I'm roped into playing it or not. Maybe that makes me a loser,
whatever.

~~~
meowface
I don't really consider it shock humor for whatever reason. I think it's
actually kind of clever and somewhat low-key. It's more like general Internet
humor, not so much 4chan humor.

I'm also used to things that are way, way more "edgy". There are games out
there that are much more offensive and rely only on shock value, usually
involving the n-word and related interspersed frequently.

------
heyimwill
I'm sorry you have to go through this, and I think it's admirable that you do
not want to get lawyers involved, but think of everyone in your position who
doesn't have the means to properly defend themselves from something like this.
I think it's important to make a point that falsely accusing someone of rape
is never okay, and comes with its consequences.

Have fun at gX!

------
ctdonath
Her use of the term "rape culture" is a red flag. I've been seeing it used
very very broadly, covering "transgressions" as simple as looking admiringly
at a woman for her attractive (and willfully emphasized) figure. She might be
labeling her short, intimate & dumped relationship with him as "rape" despite
nothing forced nor overtly sexual.

Willful misuse of terms to evoke cultural reactions is not uncommon, extremely
hard to counter in fairness, and terribly destructive.

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
\- _The Princess Bride_

~~~
nilved
I think that you have a lenient notion of what sexual assault is, and
especially that you're inexperienced with feminist thought based on your
inappropriate "willfully emphasized" remark (which should correctly be "worn
for personal choice and not for the approval of men.")

~~~
ctdonath
You demonstrate my point well.

------
tzs
> I had a really brief relationship with this girl in college; her dorm room
> was next to mine, and after a few evenings staying up talking all night, we
> made out. We spent a few nights in each others’ rooms, but we never had sex
> and neither of us pressured the other into doing anything we weren’t
> comfortable with. After a few nights, I broke things off in the cowardly way
> that 19-year-old guys do, and I just stopped returning her calls and texts.

I'm a bit confused by this part. I thought that the ignore calls and texts
method of breakup only worked when those were essentially the only forms of
communication you had with the person when not on a date. That method then
works because with no more communication, they can no longer arrange dates.

How do you make that method work when the other person is in the next room?

~~~
spiffytech
I can think of several possibilities, but I'll leave their plausibility for
the reader to judge:

\- She was also cowardly about how the relationship ended, and could never
work up the nerve to confront him in person. In my own dorm doors were usually
kept closed, so if you didn't seek someone out, you would rarely see them at
all.

\- She knocked on his door, and he ignored her then too, but omitted it from
the article, focusing on where the relationship didn't go rather than
exhaustively detailing how it ended

\- The two people kept separate schedules that meant they often weren't home
at the same time, save sleeping hours (or, if either had a flexible-schedule
night shift job, as my own roommate did, not even then)

\- The relationship occurred near the end of a semester, and both parties
moved out about the time it ended. They no longer ran into each other.

------
dictum
A terrible comment to make in a serious submission about a serious issue, but:

It's interesting that so many people who are internet-famous feminists seem to
love Cards Against Humanity. Surely I'm seeing a pattern where there's only
pure coincidence, but it caught my attention a while ago.

------
scarmig
It's unfortunate that so many are uncritically jumping to Max's defense.
Scratch that--it's wrong, misogynistic, and reflects badly on the HN
community. No one knows what actually happened, except for the accused and the
accuser, and even they have to contend with time dulling memory.

If you're part of the group that's immediately discounting her accusation and
claiming she made it up, I've got to ask: why? The only reasons I see
mentioned here are "it was a long time ago, she would have pressed charges
then if she were telling the truth" and "she refers to rape culture, she's
clearly a social justice warrior trying to pick up some Twitter followers."
But both are transparently bad reasons to attack her credibility.

A more interesting question is how to dispel the fog of claims and
counterclaims that makes identifying and prosecuting intimate violence so
difficult. I can't imagine anything short of the panopticon that could do
that, though.

~~~
xsmasher
People are uncritically jumping to Max's defense because (1) he's a famous guy
who created something they like and (2) as males, it's easier to put
themselves in his shoes than hers.

Neither of those reasons are particularly logical, but we're dealing with
humans here, not machines.

------
schrodingersCat
The accuser/victim has responded to Max's post:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8029353](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8029353)

~~~
learningram
Cannot see it now. Can you post the text ?

~~~
schrodingersCat
Here's a direct link to her blog post:
[http://humanityagainstassault.tumblr.com/post/91625206355/tr...](http://humanityagainstassault.tumblr.com/post/91625206355/truth)

Let me know if you still cannot see the post and I'll paste in the text.

------
x86_64Ubuntu
I clicked on that link with no clue that it would be SO heavy.

~~~
cheshire137
Yeah, I was expecting some startup to be shutting down or something.

------
pikachu_is_cool
I think my favorite part of the blog post is the last line.

> If you see me this weekend at GaymerX, I could use a hug.

Hook. Line. Sinker.

~~~
mkr-hn
I don't get it. Why is this your favorite part, and where does "Hook. Line.
Sinker." come in?

------
groby_b
I wanted to say I'm amazed by the number of commenters who just assume the OP
states the truth, but I'm not, not really. HN is awfully quick to take sides,
and it's very predictable where it comes down. (In the aggregate. Yes, I know
there's no HN group mind)

So, as food for thought: What if something happened between these two that was
rather awkward, and can be interpreted either way? In that case, I think the
OPs response is entirely reasonable - "Oh fuck, this is not what I thought it
was, or what I intended it to be. I'd like to talk to her".

I'm very sad the woman's first reaction was to lob a public accusation, yes.
If she thinks it's rape, she should've file charges, instead of instigating a
pitchfork campaign. On the flip side, the reactions here show _exactly_ how
most women claiming rape are treated, including by law enforcement. It
immediately becomes a witch hunt.

So how about we withhold judgment on this for a little while, until there are
actual facts?

Or are we so desperate for yellow journalism that we _must_ comment on other's
private lives without any information?

~~~
jeroen
"I wanted to say I'm amazed by the number of commenters who just assume the OP
states the truth, but I'm not, not really. HN is awfully quick to take sides,
and it's very predictable where it comes down. (In the aggregate. Yes, I know
there's no HN group mind)"

There are 121 comments right now. I have no idea how many users HN has, but I
think it is safe to assume that the writers of those 121 comments are not a
significant part of the group.

I think it is a mistake to draw conclusions about "HN" from a bunch of
comments.

~~~
groby_b
Yes. It's not the first time HN discusses the topic, though. And given that
you're here for 5+ years, I'm _sure_ you have noticed that certain topics tend
to trend a certain way on HN, no matter who the actual commenters are.

That's what I meant by "in the aggregate". Any given commenter might come down
wherever they feel like that day - few people here are so stubborn that they
never change their mind - but the trend is there.

But that was not the point of my post, and I'm sure you're aware of that too.

------
dang
Since the post has no title to revert to, we'll use the first sentence
instead. The submitted title ("Co-founder of Cards Against Humanity Accused of
Rape"), besides being editorialized, was also arguably misleading, since it
suggests that the post consists of the accusation.

Commenters: Please follow the HN guidelines and ensure that your comments are
substantive and civil.

~~~
daurnimator
The first sentence doesn't provide any context, or idea of the content. Could
you leave something in there about who wrote it?

~~~
dang
That's a reasonable request. But HN's title policy is designed to emphasize
content more and personalities less. We usually edit author names out of
titles even when they're in the original. It isn't hard to figure out who
wrote most posts and surely few people are in doubt about this one.

We often use the first sentence of a post as a replacement title when the
article title itself is misleading or linkbait, so using it here isn't really
a stretch.

------
Yourfags
The problem with having to "lawyer up" is someone is trying to ruin him over
something that isn't real. If he really is innocent, the most likely
explanation is that this woman's life has not gone well, and now she is hoping
to take revenge on someone who really has only helped her in the past, and in
doing so hopefully avoid whatever pain it is the future she's running from;
either that or she's just a psychopath.

~~~
mkr-hn
I'm not sure whether I'm more offended by the grammar or the content of your
user name.

------
hisabness
hmm, whenever anyone calls my character into question i'm ready to fight to
the death. The below is not that...

"I spoke with my lawyer, and she thinks I have a clear case to sue this woman
for libel and get a restraining order, but I have no desire to bully or harm
her. Additionally, I’m not wild about the precedent that sets for other women
to come forward in cases of actual sexual assault."

~~~
golergka
May be because it's not you?

------
lifeisstillgood
From the NSA and Snowden to Rape accusations on Facebook, we have (not will,
have) entered a world where the old assumptions about secrecy, privacy have
fallen away - like a Victorian London Fog blowing away to reveal everyone
naked and wondering what to do now others can see.

We really have no landmarks in this new world - whilst I applaud attempts to
put the NSA back under the constitution, they are merely a surprising symptom
not a cause - everything we do in the digital world is now available for
everyone everywhere and when to search.

We need laws, and more importantly cultural norms to deal with this.

I have no idea if rape occurred in this case all those years ago - but I do
know that this will cease to be news when it becomes commonplace.

It is a new world, and we must be brave to find the promised land without
drowning in the mess that will throw it forth.

Rant over

~~~
GeorgeOrr
Scary rant.

I'd hate to think that accusations become so commonplace that we no longer
think of such a horrible accusation as being unusual. That would give cover to
those actually guilty, and leave the innocent always accused.

Sadly, I can't say you are wrong.

~~~
lifeisstillgood
rape has an unusual position in crime - conviction rates for murder are at 90%
or more, for rape they rarely get above 1/3 - and that's for rapes _reported_
which is assumed to be a lot lot lower than committed.

Yet imagine if all those rapes were reported -over social media. We would
still hav this anamolous conviction rate and yet a sea of accusations.

Not sure what part of that is worse really.

------
thrownaway2424
Having been a man in college once, I concluded that the only sensible thing to
do was to record every minute. Accusation of nearly anything can come out of
nowhere. And self-surveillance is way more practical now than it was when I
was in college.

~~~
sebular
If you actually did this, and recorded girls in sexual situations without
their knowledge or consent, you're guilty of crimes punishable by jail time.

~~~
thrownaway2424
The accuracy of your statement varies by jurisdiction, and technology will
soon force the judiciary to confront the reality of ubiquitous storage and
either break from precedent or issue some really awkward rulings.

~~~
sebular
Sounds like you actually did it then. Even hiding behind a throwaway, you
probably shouldn't admit to felonies on the internet. On top of that, if you
ever tried to submit that "evidence" in defense of a rape accusation, you'd
still go to jail for that crime, so your so-called motivation doesn't hold
water.

And nice try framing this as a cool new intersection of technology and the
law, but "ubiquitous storage" has nothing to do with creating pornographic
films without consent. That's been possible since the 1800s, so it has nothing
to do with our modern digital age.

A person who went to my university was just sentenced to a couple of years in
jail for doing what you did, and beyond the law it's plain disgusting and
creepy. You want to film the women (really appreciate the correction, bud) you
have sex with? Ask them first.

You sicken me.

~~~
a-t-shirt
_> On top of that, if you ever tried to submit that "evidence" in defense of a
rape accusation, you'd still go to jail for that crime, so your so-called
motivation doesn't hold water._

Yes, you would go to jail for recording the sex act (assuming a jury didn't
show mercy on you), but you would _not_ go to jail for the rape you didn't
commit.

In terms of your future reputation and life opportunities, it's much better to
go to jail for recording a sex act than for a rape you didn't commit.

~~~
sebular
As the throwaway account mentioned, this issue is handled by state law.

In the case that I was referring to, the law under which the person was
convicted also registered him as a sex offender, so neither path would've
avoided that. Which is as it should be.

Furthermore, apart from what the male-dominated herd wisdom of the internet
would like to believe, people don't just get convicted of rape because someone
makes a baseless accusation. If you got convicted of rape, it's just like any
other criminal case, and that means there was a solid, evidence-backed case
against you, and a jury of your peers decided that you were conclusively
guilty.

I'm not saying that a false conviction never happened. But if you're someone
like the sicko with the throwaway account, filming your every sexual encounter
because you're afraid someone's going to accuse you of rape, you're probably
not approaching your sexual encounters with a healthy attitude.

------
manyman899
cards against humanity? seriously?

------
nickgrosvenor
This may be the only benefit of not attending college.

------
esbonsa
"patently" should be discontinued as meaning obviously? It makes it confusing
when you look at existing patents...

------
ary
Assuming this is true by not pursuing legal action he does two things which
make the situation worse.

1) He is allowing someone to diminish the voices of those who have actually
suffered rape and need justice. He is also giving ammunition to those who
attempt to make the argument that most purported victims of rape are "crying
wolf".

2) He makes himself look culpable. This kind of thing is serious and if he's
in the right he needs to make it known. The damage to his reputation is
already done.

By standing up for himself he'd also be standing up for real victims. Engaging
this kind of thing in the legal courts and the court of public opinion can't
be easy. I hope at least there can be some resolution.

~~~
untog
_He is allowing someone to diminish the voices of those who have actually
suffered rape and need justice._

He absolutely isn't. Many crimes like this rely on two opposing testimonies -
what he said happened, and what she said happened. Even when an actual assault
occurs it's very difficult to prove anything. Suing her for libel could
absolutely discourage genuine rape victims from stepping forward.

~~~
nsxwolf
So he's required to martyr his reputation to help genuine rape victims? This
is twisted.

~~~
untog
He's not required to, no. It's his choice. And what is so twisted about it?
Genuine rape victims have been ignored and under-represented for, well,
probably forever. _That_ is twisted. He has the choice of what he does here,
many don't. He exercised that choice.

------
n0rm
This is from his e-shop;

> Sorry, foreign person, but our store is not yet available in your inferior
> country.

He is a d*ckhead, after all.

~~~
smackfu
That is probably less offensive than anything you could find in a Cards
Against Humanity deck.

~~~
gertef
CAH is vulgar, crass, and offensive, but it is _insulting_? There is a
difference.

~~~
Crito
It's insulting if you play it right.

------
NickWarner775
Who are we inclined to believe in this situation; someone who has everything
to lose (Max), or someone who has nothing to lose? Obviously I have no
specific insight on this situation, but it just got me thinking that since
rape is such a touchy subject to bring up, as was mentioned in the article,
the girl who lived next to him could have easily fabricated this situation
just for the attention, knowing full well that there would not be many
questions asked. Just food for thought.

~~~
josephschmoe
Specious logic...

~~~
gipp
Not to mention the ridiculous assertion that the accuser has "nothing to
lose."

------
tzakrajs
What good does it do to speak to her claims? Seems better to just ignore them
and move on if they really are, "patently false." Had he said nothing, I
wouldn't have any suspicion that he was a rapist, but now... I have to wonder.

~~~
FatalLogic
I don't believe there's much chance of the accusation being forgotten. He's
forced to address it, because ignoring it makes it appear he has something to
hide.

------
giarc
_If any part of that was traumatic for her, I am sincerely sorry, and I wish
we would have had a chance to address it privately._

Can't apologizing like this be considered as an admission of guilt? Or is that
what Hollywood/TV would like me to believe?

EDIT - I didn't mean admitting guilt in terms of the law, but how a lawyer
would spin it. Think of what a good lawyer could do with this quote. Max
admits that part of the relationship could have been "traumatic for her" and
then apologizes for it and then wishes he could have spoken in private.

~~~
percentcer
I think the word you're looking for is compassion

