
Study shows e-bike riders get more exercise than cyclists - kensai
https://electrek.co/2019/08/11/electric-bike-riders-more-exercise-than-cyclists/
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Freak_NL
> The survey took place from November 2014 to January 2017 in seven European
> cities: Antwerp (Belgium), Barcelona (Spain), London (United Kingdom),
> Örebro (Sweden), Rome (Italy), Vienna (Austria) and Zurich (Switzerland).

(From the linked study.)

This leaves out the Netherlands and Denmark, two countries with a well-
established habit of riding bicycles and world-leading, exemplary
infrastructure that focuses on cyclist and pedestrian safety.

I would love to know what the increasing popularity of e-bikes does here in
the Netherlands, because as a casual observer it seems to me that a lot of
people who use them hardly pedal at all; depending on battery power for what
seems like the biggest part of the load.

While there are indubitably a good number of folk (elderly in particular) who
can now stay mobile using e-bikes in a manner that stimulates using your
muscles for much longer, I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that there is
a large group of people who uses e-bikes to stop using quite as much energy as
well — to the detriment of their health. I.e., most people in developed
countries don't meet the daily minimum of exercise; the Dutch habit of riding
bicycles for almost anything that doesn't require distances over 10km keeps a
lot of people on the healthy side of that requirement.

E-bike are attractive, because parking cars and mopeds is much more
bothersome; bicycle racks are everywhere.

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chongli
If the Netherlands is not the flattest country in the world it's very close to
it. Denmark is the same story. Either way, both countries are extreme outliers
in this category. E-bikes remove the most daunting barrier to cycling for many
people: the difficulty of hill climbs. So it makes sense to leave out the flat
countries and focus on those with rolling hills and mountains.

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kingludite
NL does have wind to make up for it. Of course there is also rain, heat and
cold (both with high humidity)

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hannob
Looks like a pretty classic correlation != causation issue.

Yeah, may be true what they found. But may also be not very relevant. It
absoltely doesn't say that getting an e-bike will make you exercise more.

Here's a theory what might be going on: E-Bikes are relatively expensive. So
if you buy an E-Bike you're probably relatively determined to actually use it.
There are on the other hand plenty of people that own a cheap bike and use it
very rarely.

There's no real reason not to do a proper study on the question: Take a
reasonably large number of volunteers, randomly assign them to "we give you a
fancy bike" or "we give you a fancy e-bike" group and then measure their
exercise and health levels. There are situations where doing such a randomized
trial is unethical or pracitcally impossible. Here it really is not. If
someone's doing a study with observational data where you could do a
randomized trial you should be skeptical.

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dmurray
Your trial sounds expensive, maybe 50 times as expensive as the version where
you just talk to people, for the same statistical power. So that's at least
one reason not to do it.

And you still end up measuring something different from what you want. Just as
in your theory about people committing to use their e-bike more when they've
spent a lot of money on it, people behave differently when you give them
things for free.

~~~
hannob
> Your trial sounds expensive, maybe 50 times as expensive as the version
> where you just talk to people, for the same statistical power.

It is, especially if you do it with proper statistical power. Though I'm
deeply convinced that it would do science a lot of good to do fewer more
expensive, but meaningful trials instead of more meaningless ones.

Your concern is somewhat valid, as you can't "blind" the test, but by using
similarly priced bikes you could at least cancel out a price bias. Still there
might be a "new tech" bias towards e-bikes. But then we're at "this is the
best we can do" and there are limitations of how good we can study things. The
study quoted above is not even near trying to do that.

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Manfred
> As it turned out, electric bicycle riders ended up slightly edging out pedal
> bike cyclists in terms of total exercise each week.

There was no correction for selection bias so you can’t make any assumptions.

For example; it’s likely that e-bike riders are older and have more spare
time. How much would a regular cyclist exercise with the same spare time?

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edejong
Article: "Users who reported any use of non-electric bicycle (including city
bike, mountain bike or bike-sharing) but not e-bike were categorized as
cyclists, those who did not report any bicycle use, as non-cyclists."

Aha! So, we're comparing mountain bikers and bike-sharers with e-bikes (which
belong in the category of electrified city bikes). That alone should raise
some informed eyebrows.

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FridgeSeal
Kind of tells me they don’t understand how much effort and energy goes into
mountain biking either.

I can only going mountain biking on weekends, but it’s far from a low effort
activity, I’d be willing to bet that I expend more energy and get more
exercise than someone who trundles around the city on an e-bike.

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_nalply
This is true for me. Since I have a e-mountain bike (a e-bike designed for
offroad cycling), I sometimes bike up hills where I live just for fun and I
would never have thought I would do this. The electrical support is awesome
and a hell of fun. Then back at home I discover myself sweaty and tired.

I turn off the motor when biking around in the city (which is flat) so I don't
get used to the boost. This is a trick I play on myself so I don't lose the
fun.

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intopieces
I like electrek, but the editorializing here on their “take” is quite
cringeworthy. I recommend skipping it.

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analog31
Disclosure: I ride a conventional bike. I thought the gratuitous, divisive
jabs against conventional cyclists were over the top. If e-bikes are a good
idea, which I think they are, they should stand on their own merits as a
technology.

Amusingly, with the proliferation of e-bikes, I actually find myself on the
defensive about riding a conventional bike. People ask me why I haven't
switched yet.

~~~
intopieces
As an e-bike rider, whole heartedly agree. Getting people out of cars and onto
any form of pedal power is a net benefit, there’s no reason to be divisive.

~~~
rhinoceraptor
The only thing I worry about is people with poor bike handling skills getting
an e-bike that suddenly lets them ride as fast as a pro cyclist with little
effort. If you watch people getting on rented bikes at a tourist destination,
you see a lot of wobbly riding. Plus the fat comfort seats that people use
make it even harder to control a bike.

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dijit
I guess it really strongly depends on if the person just used an e-bike to
replace their ordinary cycling habits.

I can see how it being easier causes people to take the bike out more than the
would ordinarily.

~~~
jstanley
I own an ebike, and I use it for journeys that I wouldn't even consider taking
an ordinary bike on. To be honest, I don't even think I'd ride an ordinary
bike to the top of my road. It's a bit of a hill, and riding a bicycle up a
hill without electric assistance is extremely unpleasant.

Ordinary cycling is just _too_ tiring for non-cyclists to want to do. An ebike
makes it workable.

~~~
tlb
Going uphill is my favorite kind of biking. Uphill, your speed is linearly
proportional to your effort. On a flat road, it's proportional to the cube
root of effort. So it's more motivating to work hard going uphill.

A more forward posture (which you get with dropped handlebars) and clip-in
pedals help.

~~~
closeparen
>So it's more motivating to work hard going uphill.

This is a feature in a sport, but a bug in a transportation method.

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allenrb
E-bikes are a funny thing. Living in Seattle, they were everywhere. Having now
moved to the flatlands of Chicago, I see more Ferraris than e-bikes. I’m a
“conventional” cyclist but totally get the appeal of electricity in hilly
terrain. Not everyone enjoys that kind of battle.

Having said that, the two (soon to be three) days I cycle the 30 mile round-
trip to work leave me feeling great. Would recommend to anyone. Combined with
riding Metra (our commuter trains) the other days, traffic becomes a spectator
sport.

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GhostVII
> But if you ride a pedal-assist e-bike, which is pretty much the only type of
> e-bike that is legal across Europe, then you can take comfort in knowing
> that you’re likely getting just as much exercise than if you were on a pedal
> bike

Pretty sure that isn't implied by the study. Even if e-bikers get more
exercise than cyclists, that doesn't mean switching to an e-bike causes you to
get more exercise, the study didn't show causation. I ride recreationally, for
a fixed amount of time. If I switched to an e-bike, I would just work less
hard during that time, and get less exercise.

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Mirioron
Speaking about cycling. Something I don't understand about bikes and e-bikes
is their price. Why are they so incredibly expensive? How come economies of
scale haven't made them dirt cheap?

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rhinoceraptor
Bikes are kind of a strange industry, at least in the US. Almost all of the
big brands steadfastly refuse to embrace online shopping, so you’re paying at
least a hundred or two for brick and mortar bike shops.

Second, cycling in the US is mostly for sport, so bike shops mostly sell road
or mountain bikes, not utility bikes. And people who ride for sport are
willing to spend a lot on this year’s new tech and lighter bikes.

If you want a cheap, reliable bike, buy used. Try to find an older chromoly
steel mountain bike with name brand components, for example Bridgestone. It
will have fender and rack mounts, and clearance for wide tires.

~~~
narwally
I work as a bike mechanic at one of the largest Specialized dealers in the US.
A couple of times a week we have people that come in with bikes they bought
from direct to consumer brands and attempted to assemble themselves. People
regularly make serious errors when they assemble a bike themselves, and
they're often dangerous and sometimes expensive to fix. Unless you're 100%
confident in your bike mechanic skills, you'll likely spend all of the money
you save buying online at your local bike shop to have them fix your own
mistakes.

~~~
rhinoceraptor
There’s always idiots, but there are probably tons of people who have
BikesDirect or Canyons and just never go to bike shops because the experience
is more often than not bad and/or intimidating.

Even with good bike shops, the experience of simple things like buying parts
really sucks. I can’t search QBP, I have to ask an employee to do it for me.

