
FTC goes after board game campaign gone wrong in first crowdfunding case - Libertatea
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2015/06/11/the-ftcs-first-crowdfunding-enforcement-is-over-a-failed-board-game-on-kickstarter/
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fencepost
When I saw the headline I wondered whether it was about the Goblins comic game
where the game developer basically took the money and disappeared. The web
comic artist is trying to make sure that backers get at least the game (edit:
maybe?), but he's been hampered by Kickstarter's refusal to let him have the
list of backers since he wasn't part of the Kickstarter itself.

I know it pissed him off no end when Kickstarter decided to send his name out
to the backers saying "[he's going to get you your stuff]" while still
refusing to tell him who the backers were. Not a fine moment there.

The comic: [http://www.goblinscomic.org/](http://www.goblinscomic.org/)

I believe this is the latest update: [http://www.goblinscomic.org/kickstarter-
making-the-mafia-loo...](http://www.goblinscomic.org/kickstarter-making-the-
mafia-look-like-chucky-cheese-since-2009/) in which Kickstarter sent out that
promise while linking all those unknown-to-Tarol backers to a page with
Tarol's home address.

Updates: added detail link, plus a bit more detail on it.

~~~
PixelB
[http://www.goblinscomic.org/kickstarter-making-the-mafia-
loo...](http://www.goblinscomic.org/kickstarter-making-the-mafia-look-like-
chucky-cheese-since-2009/)

Wow, that Goblinscomic guy fails at web design 101.

There's a huge black graphical bar in the background with black text that
males the left inch of that paragraph unreadable.

~~~
fencepost
Possibly your adblocker is overambitious? I'm mobile right now but it's
working in current Firefox, Dolphin and Chrome on Android. Black area is the
background for a left side vertical ad, but even with Bluhell Firewall
blocking in Firefox the layout is fine.

~~~
yellowapple
I'm on Conkeror (basically Firefox) with Adblock. It looks like (to me) that
the text doesn't line up with the background image, causing some of the text
to instead cover that black bar. Seems odd; you'd think the text and the
background would be part of the same div or whatever.

~~~
fencepost
I'm going to say this is definitely an Adblock Plus rules problem. I'm not
using it in Firefox (no need with NoScript and RequestPolicy), but I do have
the adblockplus.org version in Chrome and get the problem there. Disabling
Adblock Plus for the site fixes the display.

I'm not going to dig into it, but I suspect that it's a case of floated divs
and Adblock Plus is removing not just the ad or its iframe but the entire div
that it's in, thus allowing everything else to move left.

------
deckar01
> Chevalier has agreed to a settlement order with agency. Under the agreement,
> he's prohibited from making misrepresentations about crowdfunding campaigns
> and failing to honor refund policies in the future. The order also contains
> a $111,793.71 judgment against Chevaliar, but it is suspended because of his
> inability to pay. "The full amount will become due immediately if he is
> found to have misrepresented his financial condition," an FTC press release
> said. The Post was not able to immediately reach Chevalier, who did not
> admit guilt as part of the agreement.

So, he only has to promise not to do it again as long as he actually spent all
of the money? Surely there is something else they can do to recover these
funds.

~~~
emodendroket
Can't squeeze blood out of a stone...

~~~
s73v3r
Sounds like he needs to get a job, then.

~~~
emodendroket
You can't seize assets someone doesn't have and it's hard to make them acquire
assets just to have them seized against their will. I don't know what you're
expecting them to do, short of going for criminal charges and locking the guy
up.

------
sageabilly
I'm curious why the FTC went after this particular Kickstarter. Was it seen as
an "easy win" so the FTC could test the waters of going after other
Kickstarter scammers? Will this expand outwards to include other crowdfunding
sites as well?

I'm always amazed by how quickly some of the popular Kickstarters are
overfunded- like the one recently that was basically a complete rip off of
Google's Project Ara. Why would someone invest in that? Why would anyone even
begin to think that a small no-name company could possibly pull off something
like that? _Why would someone give them money?_

~~~
aaggarwal
These projects on Kickstarter or Indiegogo platforms quickly gets overfunded
because of the huge amounts coming to the projects from shady sources. If you
would look at the backers of some of these projects, you will see a lot of big
anonymous backings. I have even come across some agencies who will take money
from the owners of these projects and put them back with multiple fake
accounts to make it seem legit. This is why, even some of the hardware
projects asks for a little money like 10,000$, when it is clear that hardware
production involves high costs. After quickly getting overfunded, these
companies takes advantage of PR and tech articles on popular blogs such as
techcrunch, wired, and finally end up attracting a few good-natured tech
enthusiasts who get deceived. Some of the projects on these platforms are
extremely vague with no prototypes, but still are made to be successfully
funded. It is great that finally they will be accountable.

~~~
Shivetya
Sadly every time I have ended up at a project that uses Indiegogo it seemed to
be projects whom kickstarter wouldn't touch. Are their rules that much
different? The most well known one I found there was that solar roadways
group.

~~~
_delirium
Could be just what my Twitter most often links me, but I mostly run across
really small-scale stuff on Indiegogo, legit but not suitable for Kickstarter
because it's not a creative project. For example: someone raising $500 to pay
for a trip to present at a conference. This sort of thing seems pretty
harmless; either you kick the person $5 or you don't, and you don't expect
anything in return either way.

~~~
caf
A friend of mine successfully funded their wristwatch design on Indiegogo (
[http://eurekawatch.com/](http://eurekawatch.com/) ).

------
Grue3
Kickstarter and especially Indiegogo are so full of scams, it's ridiculous.
And people keep funding them. Makes it all the harder for legitimate projects.

~~~
nadams
I don't think scams as so much as inexperienced people who say "I've been
doing this for X years and I can totally do it" then after spending 90% of the
money and 6-12 months late - they go "actually....I don't think I can do
this". This is also due to the fact that most projects try to do things at
cost rather than allocating some buffer.

There was one posted for a bluetooth controller - looked pretty nice and I
believe they even had a prototype. When the due date came - excuses start
flowing in such as some company in China wanted to charge more than the
initial quote for the cases. The owner even claimed it would be too expensive
to 3D print them (which I think is a lie - the printer itself is expensive but
the amount of filament needed per case wouldn't have been that much). Granted,
using a 3D printer probably would have taken another year.

------
draugadrotten
I hope they go after the "Smartmaker" scammers as well, Dimitri Albino and
Harold F. Timmis.

[http://kicksucker2013.blogspot.com/2014/09/be-maker-
smartmak...](http://kicksucker2013.blogspot.com/2014/09/be-maker-smartmakers-
harold-f-timmis.html)

~~~
notNow
I had no idea about this guy and his scam but I'm really amazed at how
gullible people can be. The whole campaign screams SCAM. If this awful troll-
like casing smARtDUINO wasn't enough to give him away, I don't what would
actually. Shame that these people can get away with this outrageous stuff like
this. Someone should sue him into oblivion and make him pay for all what he
had done to unwary people.

"A fool and his money are soon parted"

~~~
KickSucker2013
I traced Dimitri back 20 years, he's run similar scams from Italy, China,
Egypt, US - You'd think he was coated in teflon.

------
ubersubtle
It was only a matter of time until they started. There are so many bad
Kickstarters out there now, I won't back anything on there anymore.

~~~
Yuioup
Bait-and-Switchstarter.

------
binoyxj
This is another Kickstarter scam by Andy Muldowney. Still not shipped even
after more than 3 years
[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1953425088/mprinter-
an-...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1953425088/mprinter-an-analog-
printer-for-a-digital-world)

------
amateurpolymath
These crowdfunding platforms heavily rely on trust between backers and
creators. I wonder how many failed projects, scams, etc. it will take before
that trust is eroded? If fraud isn't policed better, Kickstarter will
permanently lose many of its best backers.

Example: I once invested in a small Indiegogo art project. The creator was
supposed to produce and ship a small book of comic strips to the backers. This
was a very doable project but the creator never delivered and has to this day
never refunded the backers. I haven't funded anything since and probably never
will.

------
dmfdmf
I hope the FTC doesn't try to enforce consumer laws on an investment site. In
the article they even refer to the contributors to the game as "consumers"
which I think is a mistake. Anyone contributing to a Kickstarter project is
investing and as such has to expect the possibility of a complete loss of
funds. Of course, a site like this will attract scammers and the FTC should
investigate fishy cases when the principals just take the money and run but
that scam is older than capitalism.

~~~
AndrewDMcG
The regulations protecting investors are far stronger than those protecting
consumers. Crowdfunding could not exist if the customers were legally
considered investors.

~~~
cwyers
Yes. There's reasons Kickstarter goes to great pains to make it clear backers
are not investors. SEC regulations and compliance requirements are much more
burdensome.

------
eonw
ive always seen this as a problem with crowdfunding, give someone with no
business or money management experience and its likely it wont be well managed
or ran... which increases the risk of no return on my investment.

~~~
KickSucker2013
There is a sea of difference between a project that didn't deliver due to lack
of experience (or mental breakdown
[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/73258510/sad-
pictures-f...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/73258510/sad-pictures-for-
children/posts/759318)) and straight up predatory marketers insinuating
themselves into a trust based eco-system. Fact is the majority of the internet
is lazy and can't be bothered to do a simple Google search before they hand
over their cash (i.e. smARtMAKER)

------
MrDosu
Do we really want to raise our kids in a world where you can't take the money
and run?

~~~
s73v3r
YES

