
Journal 2.0: Mental Space for What Matters - samiur1204
https://blog.usejournal.com/introducing-journal-2-0-1667b4d295a
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hereme888
I downloaded and installed, but then I saw it forces me to sign up using gmail
or apple only. This led me to start reading the privacy policy... you
basically collect every webpage I visit, ip, how many times/time of day,
etc... and sell it to advertisers.

I don't like advertisers manipulating me through their psychological research
into my habits. It's unethical.

If this software were offered in a way that respected my privacy, I would
honestly try it. But for this reason I tend to stick to open source software.
It may be much less functional and require more manual work, but it gives me
peace of mind.

Wish you the best... just not my cup of tea.

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andersco
I went through a multi-step process of trying to access Journal on my phone:
being redirected to desktop, checking my inbox for an invite email, going to
journal.com, having to download a desktop app, signing in, and then...after
all that, I am informed that Journal is invitation only. I'd suggest maybe
informing users earlier in this process that the app is invitation-only.

~~~
samiur1204
That's definitely a bug. Sorry for that experience! If you're on the desktop
app, please hit create account before trying to sign in. That message is
leftover from when we were an invite only product, and only shows up if you
try to sign in without signing up. Sorry once again, and we'll have that fixed
immediately!

~~~
andersco
Thanks for the quick reply. Works now!

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dmje
I really want to see pricing, early on and massively obvious in the UI. I need
to know if this is Oss or free, or if I'm gunna get hooked on something I
can't afford...

~~~
samiur1204
Great point, definitely need to add the pricing to our website! And no, we're
not an open source app. In terms of pricing, we have a Free tier and a
$10/month "Journal Plus" tier. Currently the differences between Free vs.
Journal Plus are: 1\. number of app integrations (2 vs. unlimited) 2\. amount
of data synchronized from those apps (last 14 days vs. years) 3\. file size
upload limit (10MB vs. unlimited)

One commitment I can make is that we'll never monetize off of your data or by
dumping algorithmic ads on you. So, to do that, we're creating a subscription
scheme that allows us to provide some powerful but expensive features, but
also provide a very useful free tier.

~~~
wittyreference
What's the takeout process like?

I love having an external brain, but "lock-in" and "external brain" are
mutually exclusive in my book.

~~~
samiur1204
Honestly, we're so early we don't have a take out process yet. But we
definitely want to support that when people ask, and it also means that since
we don't have a process yet, the first few people get to tell us how they want
things exported and we'll make it work :).

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speedRS
Usually my first and only questions when looking at trying a new note-taking
app - have you implemented client-side encryption? How are my notes secured?

~~~
samiur1204
Nope, we haven't. Part of that is we are trying to help you save content from
many places and be able to provide great search for you as well, which means
we need to be able to index the content server side. We do encrypt the content
server side, making the content inaccessible to anyone at Journal without
explicitly accessing the decryption keys, for which we have an audit trail.
Also makes it harder for someone to access your content if for some reason we
got hacked.

~~~
nwienert
You don’t need to make it server side, but it certainly is easier. But client
side is totally doable. You can compress word embeddings and search them with
great accuracy.

~~~
ramraj07
I'm not sure how foolproof the encryption is if I can know every word you have
typed in each note. Sure I can't make sense of the full structure but I'll
know exactly what you've written about, so I'm not sure that's any more
effective.

The way I see it, if you want your notes to be encrypted while also cloud
synced and searchable, there are only two options I can think of:

1\. Store your notes in an encrypted file (sqlite) on the cloud and sync the
entire file locally every time you login (and push updates somehow). Roam does
this but wirhout encryption and it sucks so bad (opening the site takes tens
of seconds if not more) because of that.

2\. The product promises to store everything encrypted; data is instantly
written to an encrypted personal sqlite db on the cloud (you alone have the
decryption key, it's not saved in the server). Much more seamless experience.

Im _also_ trying to create my own notes app, because I'm convinced I can
create an app that can support a thousand users for the same cloud cost as a
single roam research subscription. Current immediate plan is not to encrypt
the notes, but my eventual plan is to try 2. If there are any other workflows
that don't degrade user experience that can still encrypt everything client
side, I'm interested to know more!

~~~
The_Colonel
> The product promises to store everything encrypted; data is instantly
> written to an encrypted personal sqlite db on the cloud (you alone have the
> decryption key, it's not saved in the server)

It's not really clear where does the encryption/decryption happen in this
scenario (client/server).

Any way, in my app
([https://github.com/zadam/trilium](https://github.com/zadam/trilium)), I
encrypt on the client (not the whole database, on a per-note basis), sync with
the server already encrypted data when internet is available (fine granularity
so small and fast sync) and search happens completely on the client (which has
full offline database and decryption key).

As a self hosted app encryption protects against a bit different threats so
encryption is done only on request for particular notes (since it implies
annoying "enter password").

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themacguffinman
A password signup option would be appreciated. While the social logins are
convenient and I often use them, I prefer to use passwords for services that
I'd also like to use at work because I intentionally avoid signing into my
personal Google account on my work computer. A username/password login option
provides a nice way to share a service without spilling my personal Google
account onto work equipment.

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algorithmsRcool
I understand the emphasis on getting users to sign up, but I wanted to read
more to see where this might fit into my workflow.

\- Does it support markdown?

\- Can I export my notes?

\- Are there any to-do list features?

~~~
samiur1204
Hey, great questions: \- We do support markdown as you're typing (they're
turned into the appropriate element as you type). Currently, pasting markdown
has some bugs, but we definitely intend to fix those soon. \- Right now, you
export a single note as a PDF. I figure you're asking, "can I export all my
notes and take them with me". The answer to that is currently no, but we fully
intend to support that. And if you need that in the meantime, we'll definitely
do a one-time export for you. \- Yes, you can create checkboxes in markdown,
and we also have simple checklists ala Google Keep as objects. However, we
don't have complex todo features such as due dates, assignees, dependencies,
etc.

~~~
algorithmsRcool
Thank you for following up. I like the product. The UX is very nice and the
workflow adds alot of value for me.

Definitely going to test it out.

2 things

1\. On windows, your app is getting caught by SmartScreen. I imagine this will
fix itself, but fyi.

2\. How do I report bugs?

~~~
samiur1204
Thanks, very nice to hear =). Looking forward to your feedback!

1\. Thanks for letting us know! I'll definitely look into that to see if we
can submit to Microsoft. 2\. On the bottom right of the app, there's a support
button that opens a menu. Click Share Feedback and send us a message there.
Thanks!

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naderkhalil
This is really cool. I like the idea of "spaces" per project. Any thoughts on
how to integrate hand written/ios pen written notes into the workflow?

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tinodotim
Why do you ask for my mail during sign-up and then continue to only offer
oauth with google or apple.

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HugeAcumen
I'd really like this answered as well. I'd like to try this, but that prompt
has put me off.

~~~
HugeAcumen
... [crickets]

Welp, gonna delete your app now. Shame I didn't get to try it.

~~~
tinodotim
Just a follow up:

1) Don't think you miss much, don't see how it's supposed to provide me a
better "mental space" as lets say a notion note.

2) I guess the only thing you're missing is daily at least one email from
them...

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nikeita
Any import tool from major notes app?

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samiur1204
We currently integrate with Evernote making your Evernote notes searchable and
viewable from Journal, but we intend to make that a converter into Journal
very soon.

Are there other tools you'd like us to support import from?

~~~
jshaqaw
IThoughts would be great.

