
The Gift of Death - jcrei
http://www.monbiot.com/2012/12/10/the-gift-of-death/
======
taybin
This is exactly why my wife and I give home cooked food and preserves as gifts
this time of year.

We are trying to declutter our life and everyone we talk to feels the same.
Why give junk when you can give an experience.

For the same amount of time as going to the mall, we can cook up a chutney and
can it for 20 people.

We've been doing this for the past 3 years and everyone seems to appreciate
the various preserves and liquors we've created. It's also a lot of fun to
make.

~~~
wtrk
People tend to be polite, especially when it comes to expressing thanks for a
gift.

One way to gauge the recipients' true enthusiasm would be to look at how many
of them have followed your lead.

If you've been doing this for three years, how many home-made gifts did you
receive in return in the second and third years? If you're counting this as
the third year, how many such gifts did you receive last year?

~~~
bunderbunder
My wife and I have been doing it for several years now, and over that time
we've been getting increasingly many home-made gifts from people who know how
to make things.

But I don't really expect the majority to follow suit, because most the people
I know simply don't know how to make things. To them canning is a black art,
and a batch of toffee involves hours in front of the stove and only comes out
successfully a third of the time. Ironically, many members of this cross-
section of my family have actually _ramped up_ their gifts to us in an
apparent attempt to "keep up."

I'm not sure it would really be so great if all of them followed suit, anyway.
The end result would just be that everyone ends up with twelve pounds of baked
goods and confections to decide between eating (gluttonous) and throwing away
(wasteful). We only do it because we know we can't convince everyone to cut us
out of their gift-giving list entirely. Giving homemade food and baked goods
is just a way to accomplish the mandatory reciprocation in a way that makes us
feel a bit more comfortable with the whole affair. What I really do want is
for the gift-giving tradition to go away, or at least be scaled way back.
Wasteful overconsumption might involve more or less wasteful materials, but
less wasteful is still a far cry from not wasteful.

~~~
wtrk
Instead of discouraging people from showing their care/regard for you (which,
with a generous helping of social obligation, is what gift-giving is about),
why not try to find ways to help gift givers give useful/desirable gifts?

Children have wishlists (adults too nowadays -- e.g. Amazon), people
'register' for weddings, etc.

~~~
bunderbunder
I've no desire to discourage people from showing their care or regard for me.
But I would strongly for them to do it directly, by engaging in activites that
center on care and regard for each other. Spending time together, perhaps.

Material goods are a poor proxy for that in my case, because they have the
effect of actually reducing my quality of life. I've already got a cluttered
house and more possessions than I know what to do with. It's actually pretty
hard for me to think of objects that I genuinely want - so hard that when
people give me gift cards, they generally go unused. I've got more than enough
stuff, I'm actively working on having less stuff, and so I'd rather let it go
to waste than acquire an object I don't want and will just go unused until I
eventually discard it during the next round of decluttering.

So in any case I feel bad - either because of guilt over not appreciating an
object that I simply can't because it brings me negative utility, or guilt
over the money or effort people put into trying to give me an object that
brings me negative utility, or for actively involving myself in the
acquisition of an object that brings me negative utility, or for the sense of
being wasteful that comes with the inevitable disposal of an object that
brings me negative utility. And I would greatly prefer for people to show they
care in a way that doesn't make me feel bad. I just wish I could understand
why in this one situation I'm generally considered to be a bad person for
wanting my loved ones to not make me feel bad. Isn't it supposed to be a time
of year when we're supposed to gather together and try to make each other feel
good?

Sadly the ritual just isn't really structured in a way that makes it workable
for folks like us. The material gifts are inextricably placed at the core of
the social construct, to the extent that there's really no way to extract them
for the sake of respecting the feelings someone who doesn't desire a material
gift. So inextricably that we can't just not give an object to someone who
would rather not take part in the exchange of objects because we care about
them and understand that would make them happier. Instead we have to make them
out to be some sort of Scrooge.

------
cschmidt
Originally a column in the Guardian[1], which explains a lot. If you give your
loved ones store bought presents you are massacring people in the Congo,
killing rhinos, and generally destroying the world. Apparently those presents
will all be thrown out within a week. Merry Christmas.

This article, and the title especially, repulses me a quite a lot.

[1][http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/10/on-12th-...](http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/10/on-12th-
day-christmas-present-junk)

~~~
kokey
At least we're not shooting everything into space after Christmas. That's the
only way we'll actually deplete resources. Wealthy posh people like Monbiot
needs to make up things like scarcity so they can lecture us on consumption.

I'm not a big fan of buying lots of rubbish for Christmas, but it's purely
because I don't really see the point and could do with saving the time and
effort.

~~~
TeMPOraL
> That's the only way we'll actually deplete resources.

Like we could recycle everything. Or like energy was currently free and non-
polluting. Whoever the guy is, he actually gave good arguments in this
article.

~~~
kokey
Throwing plastic toys into landfill is recycling, it's just not at the pace
some require to offset their upper class guilt. Energy, we'll run out of it
when we the sun burns out and we've depleted the other nuclear sources, not by
taking stored energy from the sun and burning it to produce a gas that is then
recombined with energy from the sun to give us fuel again.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Yes, and the Earth will recycle itself after the Sun runs out of hydrogen
fuel.

You're completely ignoring time here. We may never get to recycle the landfill
because the pollution will kill us before. Yes, the Earth will clean itself up
in a thousand years, the plastics will decompose, and the Sun will refuel the
Earth, but those things are irrelevant if humanity is dead by that time. If we
want to keep rising the standard of living on the entire planet, we need to
stop poisoning ourselves and trashing everything around us in such a stupid
way.

------
splicer
"People in eastern Congo are massacred to facilitate smart phone upgrades of
ever diminishing marginal utility."

It's not just smart phones; it's anything that uses tantalum capacitors. If,
as an engineer, you can avoid using tantalum capacitors in your designs,
please do.

~~~
tb
"However, although important for the local economy in Congo, the contribution
of coltan mining in Congo to the world supply of tantalum is usually small.
The United States Geological Survey reports in its yearbook that this region
produced a little less than 1% of the world's tantalum output in 2002–2006,
peaking at 10% in 2000 and 2008."

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantalum>

------
jonmc12
“It is a fair, even-handed, noble adjustment of things, that while there is
infection in disease and sorrow, there is nothing in the world so irresistibly
contagious as laughter and good humour.” ― Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol

I'm not sure that Dicken's or pop culture calculated that our laughter and
good humor might cause the disease and sorrow. Current Christmas culture just
accentuates the problem that the average consumer is born into a world where
it is often unclear how daily decisions affect the rest of the world.

~~~
pbarnett
I agree with you but I also believe that it goes further than current
Christmas culture.

------
dgant
As long as environmental externalities of human economic behavior are
underpriced, they will continue to happen for reasons that many consider
insipid.

~~~
pjscott
And that won't be changed by articles bemoaning consumerism and urging people
to be virtuously frugal, while neglecting to mention potentially useful things
like externality taxes.

------
ekianjo
It's always touching to see these people who have no problem at all with
consumption during the whole year suddenly shed a tear around Christmas time
to denounce the materialism of our lives. And to remind everyone how the world
was such a better place when we had nothing at all to share and buy. They
should go for a trip to North Korea and enjoy a "non-materialist" Christmas
there, with just bananas as the little extra they can permit themselves to
have on special occasions. That must be pure bliss! That does not explain why
people are so eager to leave these countries whenever they can. (and of course
there is a connection between authoritarian regimes and consumption. Isnt that
obvious for everyone yet?)

~~~
gnud
I'll assume you're either not commenting on the article, or you're unfamiliar
with Monbiot.

~~~
ekianjo
Your second assumption is correct, but I was commenting on the article. This
is not the only one of this kind I have seen in these past 2 weeks - so it is
a general "thing to do" around Christmas for many political
commentators/activists who have apparently nothing interesting/new to say.

------
jacquesm
I'll give you one of two things: lego if you're under 12, tools if you're over
12. And good tools, no crap. And I'd rather give a select number of people
something good than a lot of people something crappy. I'm also 100% anti-
social in that I do not send out Christmas cards.

~~~
rocky1138
Good ideas, thanks.

------
fest
A little exaggerated but not far from true. Not speaking of gifts
specifically- I'm amazed by the amount of junk toys and useless gadgets coming
from China. I actually don't know what amazes me more- that someone thought:
"Hey, it's a great idea to make this <useless piece of crap>" or that someone
out there is actually buying that stuff.

~~~
brudgers
In a similar vein, a lot of internet bandwidth is filled with advertising.

~~~
icebraining
Not really that much; video (mostly Netflix & Youtube) uses more than normal
website resources as a whole do.

Besides, like RAM and unlike e.g. plastic, unused bandwidth is wasted
bandwidth.

~~~
brudgers
Moving information requires energy, and in the case of advertising, on the
scale of Google's data centers.

------
blackhole
The only thing I ask for on Christmas is money to help me buy textbooks,
because that's the only thing I really need. That, and maybe some bedsheets.

Even then, I really must point out that this problem is as old as humanity
itself. There has never been a single generation of humans that has not
attempted to flaunt their wealth in grotesquely pointless ways. The rise of
the upper middle class simply creates more people rich enough to do so.

~~~
jacquesm
Drop me an email please (or put yours in your profile).

~~~
blackhole
An email has been dropped, but may or may not get sent to your spam folder.

------
icebraining

      In the US in 2010 a remarkable 93% of the growth in incomes accrued to the top
      1% of the population(7). The old excuse, that we must trash the planet to help
      the poor, simply does not wash.
    

Yes, and we all know that those crappy gadgets are all made in the US.

~~~
kokey
The last time I had a quick look at the numbers, global inequality is down due
to global trade. It's really that the bottom bit of developed nations lost a
bit to those in developing nations.

------
guylhem
Personally, I have implemented a simple gift policy for the gift I make and
the gift I receive:

\- no more than 1 gift

\- the gift must not cost overt 20 EUR, and the less expansive the better

\- if a list of suggestion is made, better pick up from the list.

Simple, effective and it does not prevent gifts or consumption.

I usually say that to everyone around me to avoid getting stuff I don't know
what to do with and will hate myself if I throw it away (it's a gift you
know!)

An example : last year xmas present I got from my mom : red ties. Still using
them BTW.

If you receive something unexpected, accept it after taking time to inform the
offerer of your policy, so that next year you won't be uncomfortable. A single
awkward moment, then it will be fine for the next years.

BTW I'm trying to have people stop sending me cards, but I haven't succeeded
yet, even after multiple requests- even when I stopped sending them.

The best agreement so far with my family : I explained some people love to
receive cards, but I don't, and in fact it makes me very sad - as much as if
they don't receive one. So I send them a card _IFF_ they don't send me one -
that's a compromise acceptable by both parties.

And everyone is happy. No need for a bleeding hart moralizing article during a
guilt trip.

------
fleitz
George Monbiot really should be given a nobel prize, it's absolutely amazing
that if we just stop Christmas (and using Tantalum capacitors) everyone will
live forever and no one will ever die.

Perhaps instead Mr. Monbiot should give himself the gift of a reasonable and
nuanced position that doesn't make outlandish claims.

~~~
monochromatic
He's done every bit as much as Obama when Obama won the Prize.

------
ansible
I was amused that half the stuff he lists seems to be for sale at Think Geek.

I do try to buy people useful stuff though. Things that they may want to use
for a while, and no gag gifts.

------
seles
I just had a realization on why people may consume like this.

People spend so much time working hard instead of doing what they really want
to, because it is expected of them. By consuming they feel their work was
worth it and it is the only way they can avoid the dread that they have wasted
their lives not following their dreams?

