
After man says dog dewormer cured his cancer, researchers look into treatment - jimmckin1
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/after-edmond-man-says-dog-dewormer-cured-his-cancer-researchers/article_00691b72-a223-51a5-aec0-e743faf1eed4.html
======
izuchukwu
It does appear that anti-cancer effects have been discovered in research in
both Fenbendazole [0][1][2], the treatment that he used, as well as related
anti-helmintics like Flubendazole [3], specifically when paired with certain
vitamins like Vitamin E rather than when administered alone.

Flubendazole’s particularly interesting as it’s already FDA-approved for human
use.

[0]:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2687140/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2687140/)
[1]:
[https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-30158-6](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-30158-6)
[2]:[https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2017/03/406321/deworming-pill-
may-...](https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2017/03/406321/deworming-pill-may-be-
effective-treating-liver-cancer) [3]:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25811972/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25811972/)

------
apo
This story is very poorly organized. The structure is especially bad for
scientific subjects because crucial details can be obfuscated.

Take this one for example, which appears well into the article:

> Part of Tippens’ treatment regimen was CBD.

Nowhere does the article describe in one place exactly what the treatment
regimen was.

Was it just CBD + fenbendazole or other components? When did the CBD begin?
Even the nature of the trial (?) that Tippens was part of (or not) during his
cure is cloudy.

~~~
diyseguy
In the linked blog post, he details his regimen

    
    
        Tocotrienol and Tocopherol forms (all 8)  of Vitamin E (400-800mg per day, 7 days a week).  
            A product called Gamma E by Life Extension or Perfect E are both great.
    
        Bio-Available Curcumin (600mg per day, 2 pills per day 7 days a week).  
            A product called Theracurmin HP by Integrative Therapeutics is bioavailable., and
    
        CBD oil (1-2 droppers-ful [equal to 25mg per day] under the tongue, 7 days a week) oil
    
        Panacur C (fenbendazole) (1 GRAM PER DAY FOR 3 CONSECUTIVE DAYS) per week.  
            Take 4 days off and repeat each week.  
            Each gram of Panacur C has approximately 222 mg of fenbendazole,
    

[https://www.mycancerstory.rocks/single-
post/2016/08/22/Shake...](https://www.mycancerstory.rocks/single-
post/2016/08/22/Shake-up-your-life-how-to-change-your-own-perspective)

------
tepidandroid
Not to oversimplify the complexities of cancer or anything, but for some
reason, Peter Hintjens’ (creator of zeromq) suspicions about the primary cause
of his own cancer came to mind after reading this [1].

 _”As for not getting cancer… the probable cause in my case was a parasite
called a liver fluke, which attaches to the bile duct and produces
carcinogens. Nature is nice like that. The parasite comes from farmed fresh-
water fish. The cancer I had is a major cause of death in SE Asia. I think it
was cheap sushi that almost killed me.”_

[1] [http://hintjens.com/blog:109](http://hintjens.com/blog:109)

~~~
hammock
Liver flukes have an outsized impact on Americans as well, specifically
Vietnam vets:

[https://www.livescience.com/61057-liver-flukes-vietnam-
veter...](https://www.livescience.com/61057-liver-flukes-vietnam-
veterans.html)

To avoid them, make sure freshwater fish in SE Asia is fully cooked.

------
jcims
This might be the paper from Johns Hopkins:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2687140/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2687140/)

~~~
HarryHirsch
Looks like it. The hypothesis is not completely far out, the benzimidazoles
interfere with microtubule assembly, and some chemotherapeutic agents in
clinical practice (taxol, the vinca alcaloids) do the same.

The strange thing is that the affinity of benzimidazole anthelmintics to
mammalian tubulin is much lower than to roundworm tubulins, but as we say,
more research is needed.

------
wbhart
I once saw a case on a conspiracy forum of a guy who claimed that taking
worming tablets had cured his cancer. It wasn't a clear case to me, as he'd
also been taking traditional chemo. His doctors apparently told him that the
worm tablets he was taking were harmless and he could go on taking them, but
the doctor didn't think it had any effect on his cancer.

The real issue I have with this sort of reporting is that the plural of
anecdote is not data. If 1% of people with a given kind of cancer will
survive, and some percentage of them take alternative medicines, then a
smaller, but nonzero, percentage of people will believe they were cured by
taking just about anything.

Controlled, double blind, randomized trials are the only way we can know
whether these anecdotes have anything to them.

~~~
tomohawk
Agree with the studies, but the singular of data is not "cure" or "safe". A
substance that is shown to be beneficial in general may not be beneficial for
you, and may even be harmful for you.

I have a family member who cannot take various common medicines, not because
of the active ingredient (which they need) but because of the inactive ones
which are generally considered safe.

Conversely, it is possible for a substance which is not shown to have a
general effect in a study to have an effect specifically for a person or small
group of people. Discounting this and hiding behind "evidence based medicine"
is not helpful.

------
sillypudding
[Speculation] This is interesting to me because Crohn’s Disease (and
Inflammatory Bowel Disease in general) is known to respond to certain
antibiotics such as Metronidazole and Ciprofloxacin [1]. Maybe a analogous
action is at play here.

[1]
[https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/inflammatory_bowel_disease_c...](https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/inflammatory_bowel_disease_center/about_ibd/index.html)

~~~
pojzon
Not sure if I understood correctly. Metronidazol helps to keep inflammation at
bay ? Im asking because I was taking this antibiotic and Ive seen huge change
in my skin inflammation, joint pains and bowel pains.

~~~
WalterSear
_Is Psoriasis a bowel disease? Successful treatment with bile acids and
bioflavonoids suggests it is._

[https://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/j.clindermatol.2018.03.011](https://sci-
hub.tw/10.1016/j.clindermatol.2018.03.011)

Fwiw: The article actually suggests that Psoriasis, (and IMHO, by extension,
potentially autoimmune disease in general), are associated with liver
dysfunction, _driven_ by bowel disease.

~~~
atombender
I've read that paper. It's fascinating.

The research and resulting protocol is inspired by an earlier Hungarian study
in 2003 [1] that was able to seemingly cure psoriasis in 79% of its 500 test
subjects. We don't know for sure; but 2 years later, 58% were still in
complete remission. To be clear, that's a _completely unheard-of_ result in
psoriasis research.

All current, "mainstream" forms of treatment for psoriasis only treat the
symptoms, not the cause. Even the newest, most advanced immune-suppressing
biologics are merely stupid off buttons for the signaling misfiring that
causes the superficial symptoms; meanwhile, psoriasis sufferers have much-
higher-than-average incidences of cancer, liver disease, heart disease, IBD
and so on. Treatments only keep the skin/joint symptoms at bay, and require
the patient to continue taking the drugs, which tend to stop working after a
while.

Pretty excited about this direction in psoriasis research.

[1]
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S092846800...](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0928468003000427)

~~~
WalterSear
Fwiw, I've found infrared induced hyperthermia to be extremely useful, but
it's gruelling, time consuming and has a very short period of effect. I've
been performing it most days for ~12 months.

"...nine cycles of whole-body hyperthermia (target body core temperature, 38.5
degrees C; duration, 50 min)... caused a significant reduction of all
cytokines by 40-50%"

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19089489](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19089489)

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6263304/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6263304/)

I started the protocol outlined in Dr. Ely's paper recently. It seems to have
reduced my symptoms somewhat, but it's too early to tell for sure.

------
lazyjones
Seems to be the same as this: [https://www.odditycentral.com/news/man-claims-
cheap-dog-dewo...](https://www.odditycentral.com/news/man-claims-cheap-dog-
deworming-medicine-cured-his-terminal-cancer.html)

Apologies if this is stolen content etc. but I can't read the original in the
EU apparently.

~~~
ricardobeat
This URL also returns “Not found” in the EU.

~~~
lazyjones
Sorry, I removed 1 character too much when I cut off the tracking stuff. It's
.html, not .htm (fixed).

------
Spixel
451: Unavailable due to legal reasons

We recognize you are attempting to access this website from a country
belonging to the European Economic Area (EEA) including the EU which enforces
the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and therefore access cannot be
granted at this time. For any issues, contact web@tulsaworld.com or call
918-581-8300.

~~~
echelon
This is one of the many viable options US companies have for dealing with EU
traffic.

GDPR compliance can be extremely expensive to implement, especially for
complex software comprised of thousands of microservices that handle customer
data. And imagine working in an industry where data retention is legally
mandated by other jurisdictions...

I'm not saying GDPR is bad (I'm all in favor!), but the costs can be quite
large to implement to the letter of the law (GDPR export requirements, etc)

~~~
raverbashing
> GDPR compliance can be extremely expensive to implement

I always find this argument a bit skewed.

Yes, it is expensive if your site has more js than content and if your
business model is to overtrack and overprofile your readers

On the other hand a static page is GDPR compliant. Doesn't seem to be too
expensive to implement.

~~~
jimmaswell
The GDPR compliance of a static page can be debatable depending on how you
interpret it, if Apache is logging accesses.

~~~
raverbashing
Yes but logging is logging

To be very honest even if you keep the logs it is extremely unlikely just
logging, even with full IPs is a "material" violation of GDPR unless your
static page/file is extremely specific

(You can also expire or fully anonymize the logs before keeping them)

------
sansnomme
Fun fact: there's a vaccine for Lyme disease too.

~~~
bdamm
A safe one?

------
chiefalchemist
Probably not a popular position here on HN but I'm becoming more and more
intrigued by the power of a placebo. Furthermore, it's possible we are often
undermining a placebo's power but telling ourselves it's science and only
science that can save us - even tho', trust is, the placebo effect is very
real.

[https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/05/melanie...](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/05/melanie-
warner-the-magic-feather-effect/586012/)

~~~
warent
I'm not sure why it wouldn't be a popular position. There are countless
scientific studies demonstrating the efficacy of placebo. The human mind is a
powerful thing.

~~~
chiefalchemist
-3 votes. HN is so predictable sometimes.

~~~
warent
I don't think it's because you're saying placebo is powerful. It's because
you're anecdotally suggesting that there's some group of people who think that
placebo has no place in science, and then you're connecting that hypothetical
group of people to the HN community.

The predictability is a good thing I think. If you fart in an elevator, people
will predictably be disgusted. It's about social expectations.

~~~
chiefalchemist
". It's because you're anecdotally suggesting that there's some group of
people who think that placebo has no place in science, "

I'm suggesting that __science__ has suggested (to some people) that - despite
the science - the placebo has no place in solutions/cures. That science is the
only hope.

Not only does that subvert placebos, it's self-fulfilling for science. The
problem is, science's success rate still comes up shorts.

That's not anecdotal.

~~~
warent
Who exactly are the "people" when you say "to some people?"

Specifically what science has suggested that placebo has no place in
solutions/cures?

Cures for what?

Despite what science?

What success rate still comes short?

Short of what? Success with respect to what?

Everything you're saying is completely anecdotal and somewhat difficult to
follow, unfortunately.

There's nothing wrong with being anecdotal, just acknowledge it and recognize
that it's pretty flimsy for any kind of argument, especially generalizations.
I often make comments saying "Anecdotally..." And then I provide opinions
which are frequently shown to be inaccurate. Nobody downvotes me because I'm
not trying to sell my opinions as facts or common sense.

If you don't want to be dismissed then provide specific evidence or research.

