
Ask HN: If you were 20 again, what country would you choose? - xtester
I&#x27;m curious, if you were 20 again and could choose any country on earth to start from scratch, what country would you choose thinking it would best enable you to build an &quot;empire&quot; for the next 10 generations after you?<p>As people from different countries and backgrounds will try to answer this question, I would really appreciate a detailed answer as to why you pick any country. The goal here is to find out more about how people see things and find out often missed or unknown facts about the great countries of the world. I&#x27;m especially curious about some contrarian views. Another way to put it would be, what countries do best satisfy the criteria below, but are not so heavily marketed and kept under the radar?<p>I think these would be the most important factors I would take into account:<p><pre><code>   - Friendliness toward entrepreneurship&#x2F;businesses&#x2F;startups
   - Serious intellectual life
   - Good education system
   - Good healthcare system
   - Good quality of life
   - Beautiful landscapes

</code></pre>
Please also see the list below before you answer:<p><pre><code>   - http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Where-to-be-born_Index
   - http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;World%27s_most_liveable_cities
   - http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.economist.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;21566430-where-be-born-2013-lottery-life</code></pre>
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Someone1234
Likely within the "Europe" (particularly the UK) but maybe Canada.

As a small time employer they take a lot of the employees issues out of your
hands and place it in the hands of the state (which is GOOD because now I
won't need a HR person, insurance specialist, and so on).

For example, health insurance: not the employer's problem, long term/short
term disability: not the employer's problem, holiday ("vacation") time/sick
leave/maternity/paternity: already defined by law (which is GOOD, since now no
drama) and often times the employee is compensated from the state (e.g.
maternity leave).

In the US it is incredibly uncompetitive between small and large businesses.
Small businesses just cannot offer the same perks and pay (they literally pay
more for the perks too), and that means you cannot hire the best.

While small time employers in europe may not be able to match pay like for
like, they can almost always match "benefits." Plus the work life balance
remains real so people with families can continue to remain competitive.

The only real way to even do a startup now in the US is via huge investment
from a VC (just to pick up the employee pay packet). True "basement startups"
are all but dead, which definitely isn't the case in much of Europe
(particularly in several minority communities which are flourishing).

That all being said, if I wanted to open a "programmer sweatshop" I'd
definitely do it in the US or China. Just pay new grads slightly above the
minimum wage, offer no benefits, and rake in all the profits yourself -- the
US allows that easily both due to the law (or lack of) and because much of the
US populace feel that people exploited "deserve" it (e.g. Walmart workers) for
being "lazy." You'd be a "local business hero" as opposed to Europe where
you'd be hated pretty universally.

~~~
joeclark77
That's like boarding the Titanic when it's already sinking. Europe won't even
exist in 50 years. The demographics are brutal and inevitable: young Europeans
are not marrying, or marrying late, not having children, or having only one or
two children, and having them late. They're rapidly being replaced by
immigrants who have no interest in assimilating to the culture or adopting the
language, but are having lots of children. You will still be able to find
France or Germany on a map 50 years from now, but their cultures will be long
gone.

~~~
hackerboos
> Europe won't even exist in 50 years. The demographics are brutal and
> inevitable: young Europeans are not marrying, or marrying late, not having
> children, or having only one or two children, and having them late. They're
> rapidly being replaced by immigrants who have no interest in assimilating to
> the culture or adopting the language, but are having lots of children.

Hyperbole and xenophobia in one comment.

~~~
joeclark77
You cannot squeeze water from a stone. If Europeans will not have children or
transmit their cultures to immigrants, Europe will cease to exist. No amount
of politically correct wishful thinking is going to change that.

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hpenedones
Switzerland definitely ranks very high in all your factors. It's one of the
safest countries for investors, has a growing startup scene, has two of the
top engineering schools in Europe/World (ETHZ, Zurich and EPFL, Lausanne), has
the highest rate of Nobel prizes per capita, very solid educational and
healthcare systems, amazing quality of life (Zurich, Geneva, etc, often rank
as the top cities in the world), and last but not least: you have amazing
lakes and mountains everywhere!

~~~
xtester
Agree, Switzerland seems definitely one of the top countries in the world
which keeps itself intentionally under the radar. As Taleb put it, in addition
to all the obvious benefits, Switzerland seems to be an antifragile country.

In any case, as far as I know Switzerland makes it pretty hard for people to
immigrate there. Do you happen to live there? What would you say would be the
most effective way to immigrate there?

~~~
hpenedones
It's easy for members of the European Union as there are/were bi-lateral
agreements. For other nationalities I think it's harder, as there are some
quotas. You basically need to find a job first, but it's doable.

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lacker
The USA. It worked great the first time I went through my 20's. Why switch?

~~~
userulluipeste
One of the USA's problems is the education system (and I'm not talking about
its quality here). If you thing in the long term, counting in your future
kids' education, you may wish to reconsider USA altogether.

Another problem is the healthcare system and the chances of one to actually
afford it when the time comes - HN had a few good articles about the subject.

And there may be other somewhat lesser problems too.

~~~
joeclark77
In the USA you're still allowed to homeschool, at least. In many other
countries, such as Germany, that makes you a criminal.

~~~
forgotpasswd3x
Ok, I'll take the bait. Why shouldn't it?

Germany has very good schools. By denying your child the ability to attend,
you are committing an offense to the child. Why should this be allowed?

~~~
scourge
I totally agree that Germany has a pretty good system. Their forest schools
are a step in the right direction. But they did invent the Prussian model of
modern schools (which are a curse).

The point is, it should NEVER be illegal to refuse to send your children to a
militarized system which has stunted and de-humanized every single person in
the modern system. In the UK, they ever tried to make Summerhill school a
bunch of criminals. Also see Steiner schools, unschooling etc etc. The
evidence would indicate that doing the BEST thing for your children would make
you a criminal in most first world states. If you wonder why the electorate
has become more malleable, "stupid" and gullible in the last 100 years, maybe
you should look into why this is. It's not because we are "devolving" or
because people are stupider now. They are forced, trained and educated to be
thus.

~~~
userulluipeste
Its an interesting take on German Education. However, people admire Germany
and Germans for results and for how they function as a society. Doesn't this
in itself excuse the bad consequences?

~~~
scourge
It depends: is one comparing to the average society or full human potential?

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atmosx
The _best_ city in the world, as life quality goes, is Vienna.

That said, Vienna requires you to have good education and money to _enjoy the
city_ , more than (almost) any other city. I don't know nothing about the
Austrian healthcare system though.

Copenhagen is a good choice for sure. Norway and Sweden are extremely well
suited when it comes to education and healthcare but the weather might get you
depressed in the long run.

I would also have a look at Tallin (Estonia) given it's drive for technology,
might be a future technology hub (Something like Tel-Aviv with less cultural
restrictions).

First choice is Vienna though.

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userulluipeste
The Europe, maybe somewhere in the south if you care about the weather. Turkey
may be a good geographical choice if you won't mind living in a
(predominantly) Muslim country. If however, you choose "to breathe tech", then
Germany is the most suited place, although having attached the package of a
little bit more expensive life compared other eastern/south-eastern and even
southern alternatives.

The top 9 cities (plus a few capitals as Sydney or Paris) from the referenced
Wikipedia article are good, but expensive places to live in.

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epynonymous
my vote would be japan, i lived there for a year when i was 28, i thought
tokyo was an international city so i could get away with english and slowly
learn the language, but not quite. if i was 20 again, i'd have the patience to
learn the language. not sure about the startup scene, but the infrastructure
was amazing (fiber to the home in 2007, dedicated 100 Mbps), and let's not
forget ruby and tokyo cabinet founders. scenery awesome, the attention to
detail and hardworking nature of the people are amazing.

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anonbanker
Beijing or Calgary.

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jensv
Care to elaborate?

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anonbanker
Beijing is now the global center of finance and industry. I bet on Tokyo, and
learned Japanese. By the time I was old enough to make an impact, the market
had shifted to Beijing/Shenzhen.

Calgary is an interesting place to live, with gorgeous women of many different
ethnicities. There's currently a gold rush going on there, and relocating as
to get in on that sweet environmental destruction would have been a good idea.

~~~
mattfrommars
So I should move to Beijing if I want to have a startup related to finance?

What benefits do financial capitals even offer other then finding companies if
you are looking for life/health/car/etc insurance.

