
What's behind the quiet rise of homelessness in the countryside? - DoreenMichele
https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2018/jan/10/rural-idyll-homelessness-hits-the-countryside
======
Apes
Question:

Is some group is accumulating so much money that the poorest have insufficient
money remaining for their basic needs?

Observations:

\- Aggregate total wealth of all private households in Great Britain was £11.1
trillion (in 2014) [1]

\- In the UK there were 27.2 million households in 2017, resulting in an
average household size of 2.4. [2]

\- This computes to an average wealth of £408,000 per household in the UK.

\- According to the Office for National Statistics, as of November 2017, the
average UK house price reached £226,071 [3]

Conclusion:

With perfect wealth equality, the basic needs for everyone living in the UK
can theoretically be met. Therefore, it is possible that wealth accumulation
may be a significant contributor to the homeless problem.

However, the gap between the cost of living in the UK and the average wealth
in the nation is fairly thin. With a realistic Gini coefficient, a large
portion of the population will have their basic cost of living exceed what
their wealth can support. Adjusting the wealth distribution will reduce the
size of the homeless problem, but not solve it.

The UK should seek to identify why its cost of living exceeds what this
portion of the population can support and take appropriate action to resolve
these issues.

Sources:

[1]
[https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personal...](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/compendium/wealthingreatbritainwave4/2012to2014/chapter2totalwealthwealthingreatbritain2012to2014)

[2]
[https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsde...](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/families/bulletins/familiesandhouseholds/2017)

[3] [https://metro.co.uk/2018/02/02/what-is-the-average-house-
pri...](https://metro.co.uk/2018/02/02/what-is-the-average-house-price-in-
cities-across-the-uk-7281172/)

edit: There was a large flaw in my original logic -- the math was done per
person instead of per household.

~~~
mseebach
If everybody in the UK moved to where houses had average cost, everybody would
be able to afford a place to live. If they could get a job, which they can't,
which is (a large part of) why they don't do that.

That's the problem with averages.

The high cost of housing is caused by demand outpacing supply for a very long
time. It's expensive to live in London because more people want to live in
London than the housing stock will accommodate, and no amount of
redistribution will change that, except to the extent such a policy makes it
drastically less attractive to live in London.

The _exact_ causes of the supply shortfall is subject to some discussion, but
that the shortfall is the proximate cause of the high cost isn't.

~~~
trobertson
The article is about countryside homelessness, not big-city homelessness. The
problem with that average is that it _overestimates_ the cost of countryside
living, which means that people who are homeless in the countryside are
seriously screwed, not "living in the wrong place".

The current trend is that more and more people can't afford below-average
priced housing. This is a serious problem.

------
clumsysmurf
Not just the UK, this happens in the US also.

[http://tucson.com/news/state-and-regional/homeless-make-
the-...](http://tucson.com/news/state-and-regional/homeless-make-the-forest-
outside-flagstaff-a-temporary-
home/article_f5e186ef-5636-505f-bc64-fef4210a50fb.html)

~~~
runarb
GDPR blocked for people in the EU. Google cache here:
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:KnwGRKo...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:KnwGRKooeL4J:tucson.com/news/state-
and-regional/homeless-make-the-forest-outside-flagstaff-a-temporary-
home/article_f5e186ef-5636-505f-bc64-fef4210a50fb.html+&cd=1&hl=no&ct=clnk&gl=no)

------
evjim
I have friends that have lived in the national forest for a significant amount
of time. Know people who live in cars and RVs in cities. None of them are
mentally ill or drug addicts. I know techies and rednecks who are held back by
the cost of real estate.

The world needs a modern homesteading act. Give people small parcels of land
with limited restrictions.

Real estate speculation/investing/absenteeism has jacked up prices in a lot of
areas. This excessive ownership by some is subsidized and allows rent seeking
and perpetual wealth growth. Land is not capital. Land is limited. Bare land
should be free.

~~~
ryandrake
> The world needs a modern homesteading act. Give people small parcels of land
> with limited restrictions

Or (more controversially) increased squatter’s rights.

~~~
buckminster
Here in the UK I would settle for the reintroduction of squatter's rights.
Tony Blair abolished them.

(To be completely accurate, you are still entitled to claim land after 12
years unchallenged adverse possession. What changed under Blair is you now
also need the permission of the landowner. Which you will never get.)

------
sevensor
Interesting phenomenon. From the U.S. all I ever hear about the U.K. is urban:
Londoners living precariously in houseboats, blighted post-industrial cities
in the North. I've seen tent encampments in the woods in the U.S., but it
never occurred to me that it would be a thing in the U.K. Until just now, if
you'd asked me where the poor lived in the U.K., I would have said "council
estates."

~~~
TooBrokeToBeg
The UK has the equivalent of the US projects called Blocks (after the shape of
the buildings). Featured in UK tv like The Misfits, Escape the Block, etc.

------
mkirklions
In the US, we dont associate homelessness with wealth but rather mental
illness.

You can get a place to live for 400/mo dollars in the south, and easily
500$/mo with roommates in 'civilization' where there are high paying jobs.

None of this is particularly difficult to afford, even for minimum wage
workers(who dont really exist).

I find this an odd topic. Living isnt hard to do in first world countries
where food is plentiful, jobs pay decent, and getting space to live in is
cheap.

~~~
DoreenMichele
I would be very interested in seeing listings for $400/month. If you would be
so kind as to give me links to such, I would be grateful and it might even
help get a few homeless people off the street.

~~~
fein
There are houses in my town going for $50k. For that you get 1600sqft, 2 bed,
2 bath, .36 acre lot in the city with city water and sewer. At the worst you
would need to drive an hour to get a big city job, but there's plenty within a
30 min drive. Cleveland is about an hour away, Akron is 30 mins.

The locals that are homeless here are not in that situation because of some
fixable problem with a city policy. It's unanimously mental illness or drug
problems, often both.

This is also the county seat, and where the welfare offices are located. 80%
of the properties in the city are rentals, and there are multiple charity
organizations that provide discount housing.

Homelessness is not a problem that will be eliminated until we no longer have
people that cannot take care of themselves.

~~~
DoreenMichele
If you have no down payment and lousy credit, etc, you can't get a mortgage
for $50k. I'm off the street. I applied for a zero down mortgage. It would
still require thousands in closing costs, money I don't have.

The bank never emailed me. I was unable to log in to my application for some
reason to check it's status. I emailed a mortgage officer at the bank. They
asked for my phone number. They never called me.

I have since decided I don't want a house in the burbs. I want to stay
downtown. That's an entirely different process.

But I have earned income and decent credit and 6 years of college etc and I am
finding it challenging to arrange to purchase real estate. I have had these
conversations on HN before with people and it always seems to be an assertion
that comes from privilege and cluelessness about what reality is like if your
income is low.

I have done internet searches for dirt cheap housing across multiple states.
The truly dirt cheap stuff frequently says stuff like "No foundation. Will not
qualify for financing. Cash buyer only."

If I had a few $10k cash laying around, I would handily qualify for a
conventional mortgage because that would cover down payment and closing costs.
So, no, I can't buy the houses listed at a mere $10k or $20k that
theoretically would have super low monthly payments because that just isn't
how that works.

People who have challenges to taking care of themselves can sometimes manage
it if they can arrange decent housing that is super cheap. I'm medically
handicapped and I manage to work part time. I am currently in a super cheap
rental and off the street.

I paid my student loan off last July and was in housing in early September.
Student loans are a pox on this nation, impoverishing a great many people. You
don't need to be mentally ill or addicted for that to be a huge and
problematic burden.

I'm not asking you to solve homelessness. I'm just looking to crowdsource a
little information. It would be nice if folks refrained from raining on my
parade and trying to tell me to not bother to try to do anything about the
problem.

Thanks.

~~~
fein
Then you probably can't afford real estate right now, and need to either move
somewhere with cheap rentals or find something cheap in your area.

I lived in a crappy apartment for 4 years while working my first real job to
save up enough money for a down payment on a house.

~~~
DoreenMichele
I am currently in an extremely cheap rental. That's how I got myself off the
street.

I bought a house at age 27 with zero down and no money to cover closing costs.
I know something about wheeling and dealing in real estate.

The fact that I was recently homeless is not evidence that I don't know
anything about real estate. I had student loans and a lengthy health crisis.

To be as clear as possible, I wasn't describing the issues I have run into in
order to indicate that I personally can't pull this off. Just describing what
can be involved and trying to indicate that it can be a dead end for a lot of
people with a low income. I don't expect it to be a dead end for me, though it
has proven to be a speed bump.

