
Windows 8.1 forces the user to interact in a way that doesn’t work - hanifbbz
http://user.wordpress.com/2014/02/15/windows-8-1-forces-the-user-to-interact-in-a-way-that-doesnt-work/
======
miguelrochefort
His point is valid. The ability to dismiss these tips would be ideal. However,
most people would skip them and complain about how "unusable" Windows 8 is
(without even taking a minute to learn the basics). In my opinion, these
mandatory tutorials are a necessary evil.

The real issue here is that Windows 8 somehow recognizes Wacom pads as touch
inputs (with swiping from sides support). If it recognized it as a mouse, it
would simply tell the user to use "hot corners":

\- Top-Left: App switching

\- Bottom-Left: Start screen

\- Top/Bottom-Right: Charms menu

A one-time unskippable tutorial that you can get through in less than 10
seconds is probably not worth complaining about. Displaying the wrong
directions to Wacom users is.

~~~
raverbashing
There is no mandatory user tutorial for the iPad.

True, sometimes you need to teach the user to do something, but if you're
forcing this even for basic usage, you're doing it wrong (unless this was a
really specific tool/procedure, and even then)

~~~
sp332
The iPhone ran tons of ads showing people how to navigate and use swipes and
pinch-to-zoom before the product was released. That's really not an obvious
thing to do with a phone, if you've never seen it before.

~~~
coldtea
It seems that 2 year old babies that have never seen the ads knew how to do
these things just fine. Heck, there are even videos of cats playing with an
iPad and getting it to scroll and such.

Swipe with finger to scroll, tap to press, and even pinch-to-zoom are as basic
interaction as interaction goes. You only need a second to get them if shown,
and most people can even discover them instantly without being shown.

~~~
bztzt
The Windows "tutorial" item in question is a shortcut for switching to recent
applications. The equivalent action on iOS is either a four-finger swipe to
the right, or else double-tapping the home button, then tapping on an app.
These are obvious to 2 year old babies and cats?

~~~
coldtea
No, but "switch to recent applications" is not a basic action.

It's actually an action you might not even use at all -- since you can do it
in another way (home and click the app you want to open next).

It's not a common action since using apps is mostly a seggregated affair. Now
you use this, after some time you go and use that. You don't usually flip from
one to the next all the time.

~~~
bztzt
Sure, and that's the case on Windows too. You can launch and switch
exclusively through the start screen and never use the recent-apps swipe. It's
just included in the tutorial popups for whatever reason (maybe because
Windows users are expected to be more keen on multitasking, given its desktop
heritage and since that's a point of differentiation for Windows vs. the
iPad).

------
ufmace
I gotta wonder, is anybody at Microsoft really surprised that their decision
to completely rework all of their 25-year standards of how their OS works has
side effects of varying levels of bad in a huge number of relatively obscure
use cases? This sounds like such a textbook example of why you don't do that.

I'm still running Windows 7 on my desktop PC. It has a mouse and keyboard. I
have no intention of ever getting any kind of touchscreen, pen tablet,
touchpad, or other alternative input device for it. I'll show some enthusiasm
for upgrading when they make the mouse and keyboard first-class citizens
again, instead of treating them like an afterthought in an attempt to get some
traction on tablets.

~~~
w1ntermute
Ignoring Modern UI in Windows 8 is relatively easy:
[http://www.gizmag.com/windows-81-modern-
ui/29552/](http://www.gizmag.com/windows-81-modern-ui/29552/)

~~~
redidas
Ignoring Modern UI does not make Modern UI completely disappear. Nor does it
change the fact that Microsoft thought this was a good idea. Poor usability is
poor usability. Microsoft messed this one up, and it will impact them and a
lot of peoples perceptions of the future of Windows.

~~~
w1ntermute
Nonetheless, for most people on this site using Windows, it makes sense to
take the relatively simple (for HNers) steps to upgrade to Windows 8 and hide
Modern UI, as Windows 8 provides various performance improvements over Windows
7, Modern UI notwithstanding.

------
riffraff
microsoft does that all the time.

Last week I tried to signup for windows azure. It asked me to enter my credit
card data, I did it and it was ok, then the signup fails without explanation
("contact support").

What is happening is, I believe: I am forced to enter a billing address in the
country from which I am _connecting_ (hungary), but my card is from another
one (italy). The first thing is stated _nowhere_ but I presume it is so after
various attempts at inserting non-hungarian zip codes.

So the card is valid, the billing address is valid, but an additional check is
performed that the two have a matching country, which fails. Also not stated
anywhere.

There is no way I can workaround this other than taking a plane or getting a
new credit card. Customer lost.

(bonus: the "support" is the "windows azure" stackoverflow tag, which I don't
think is competent re: billing, and an MSDN forum where people say "this
happens sometimes, there can be many reasons sorry").

~~~
sdegutis
Have you actually tried contacting Microsoft about this? Your assumption of
why it failed may not even be correct.

~~~
d0
Have you ever tried Microsoft Support (even if you have a fully paid up gold
partnership agreement)?

At best you'll get some low end support peon who doesn't know ass from elbow.
At best you get denial.

Then there's Microsoft Connect, their public bug tracker (for products they
feel like pretending to support), which basically is a route for them to close
every ticket straight away as not reproducible despite being reproducible by
hundreds of people.

~~~
computerslol
I've tried Azure support, and it was pretty good.

~~~
d0
It was until the day it was down last year. At which point it was hopeless for
nearly a week. I was on the end of a down system deployed to Azure as the
technical contact. Not fun.

~~~
computerslol
I'd imagine. That sucks :(.

------
rayiner
The basic problem is that gestures are non-discoverable, and should not be
used for core functionality.

~~~
groovy2shoes
Yes. I recently purchased a Windows 8.1 laptop and had to turn to Google to
figure out how to reboot it. And when I do discover a gesture, it's by
accident and it screws up whatever I was trying to do.

~~~
hanifbbz
I googled it to learn how to reboot my computer too. And quite confusingly it
turned out I have to go to "Settings" menu in order to reboot my machine!
Weird! Doesn't make sense.

~~~
octopus
A few (many) years ago I bought myself a Windows 95 computer. In order to
reboot the computer I had to use the "Start" button. Weird, didn't make any
sense.

Once your muscle memory start working, it becomes like a second nature to use
Settings->Reboot (like using the "Start" button in the old days). The human
mind can create habits, with a bit of initial struggle, from anything. Give it
some time.

~~~
thaJeztah
I agree that you'll be able to get used to almost anything, however;

The old location (inside the start menu) was at least a 'logical' location,
because the start menu in W95 was designed to be the central place for
_anything_ you did. The only confusing part was the naming.

Settings is possibly the worst possible location to put this; \- In daily use,
you will _never_ use the settings menu \- Settings are meant to make a
(permanent) change in the configuration of your computer. (I configure my
computer to 'reboot'? Should it reboot whenever I switch it on?)

~~~
bztzt
Settings is the place for configuration _and management_ of your computer (and
the current app). Shutdown/restart is a management function so it goes in
Settings.

------
neals
I've been putting off switching from W7 for 2 years now. I hated how the Wacom
worked on the first version fo Windows 8.

Check this page to see how much pain they have been putting people through:
[http://viziblr.com/news/2012/8/18/windows-8-rtm-and-wacom-
ta...](http://viziblr.com/news/2012/8/18/windows-8-rtm-and-wacom-tablets-even-
more-flawed-than-before.html)

------
wila
I've seen this in a VM (with no touch support at all) I ignored it. IIRC I
just pressed the windows key, went back to desktop and presto, forced swipe
how-to gone.

If not, just reboot.. isn't that the way all serious problems in Windows are
fixed? ;)

All things taken aside I do agree that the simple solution, an "x" button is
missing.

~~~
hanifbbz
"If not, just reboot.. isn't that the way all serious problems in Windows are
fixed? ;)"

Well said! :D

~~~
thaJeztah
And, apparently the official way to do things ;)

"your computer will restart in 10 minutes", no you cannot finish your
presentation, or keep to your deadline. We will forcibly restart your PC and
don't allow you to save your work when the countdown has completed... This
update solves a potential data-loss probl.........

One customer less. Problem solved!

------
evadne
There. Disable the help tips with Group Policy Editor.

[http://superuser.com/questions/666247/hide-win-8-1-tip-
about...](http://superuser.com/questions/666247/hide-win-8-1-tip-about-switch-
between-apps)

~~~
Aoyagi
I'm (somewhat) sure that this works only in 8 Pro.

~~~
evadne
Indeed :(

[http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2...](http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2012/04/16/announcing-
the-windows-8-editions.aspx)

~~~
hanifbbz
I never understood this "versioning" thing! If they have written the code for
the complete Windows once, why can't they have just one version? I mean why
force poor people to have less feature?

~~~
eli
It's called price discrimination and it's common among many, many products and
services.

If there was only one version then you'd either have to price it higher than
the "cheap" version, which will lead to price conscious consumers choosing a
competitor. Charge less and you're leaving money on the table from businesses
that are happy to pay more.

It's the same logic behind "Senior Discounts" and coupons.

------
bifftannen
These tips we're there in Windows 8. People complained that there was no
tutorial.

~~~
hanifbbz
the tips by themselves are quite good. The problem is that they are compulsory
and in this case even wrong and there's no easy way to get rid of them.

------
withinrafael
I think there's more than meets the eye here.

The OP didn't receive the drivers from WU. Instead he downloaded them from
Wacom, suggesting they're not Windows Hardware Certification Program
certified. And that's probably because amongst other things, the driver set is
reporting touch inputs where there are none, perhaps for some specialized
Wacom case/use. Had these been certified, I believe the OP would have received
slightly more useful mouse-specific tips.

------
sdegutis
Maybe. But you know what? So do OS X and Linux.

------
sigsergv
There also should be button “Close this and don't show anything like that!”.

------
blueskin_
Unskippable tutorials.

Windows 8 failure #426,208.

