
After Three Months of Using a Standing Desk - ColinWright
http://www.happenchance.net/after-three-months-of-using-a-standing-desk%E2%80%A6/
======
nate_meurer
I have been standing to work for about a year, and I will never go back.

The biggest difference for me is that I'm now much more mobile. For some
reason, the simple act of getting up out of a chair is a significant barrier
for me, to the point that I'll be stuck in my chair all day, forsaking food,
until I am forced by urinary needs.

But standing at my computer, my entire life exists on a single eye-level
plain. The activation energy of rising from a chair is no longer a barrier. I
step, pace, turn around. I walk out of my office every 15 - 30 minutes,
usually just to look out a window and then promptly return. I talk to my
colleagues more. And my body stays warmer; I used to wear knit caps all day in
my office, but no longer.

A couple of other thoughts:

Legs swelling is a serious problem. The first clinical symptom is pitting
edema, and the severity shocked me when I first noticed it. Turns out, your
legs depend on regular contractions by the big skeletal muscles to pump blood
back up toward your heart. Your veins are equipped with check valves for this
purpose. Standing still puts the worst possible stress on these veins, as it
both maximizes hydrostatic pressure and robs them of the muscle-pumping. I
don't know how to stop this other than to wear compression socks, which in
turn requires me to always wear pants to appease my vanity.

The low-back pain I had from time to time previously is gone. Not just better,
but gone.

I had a lot of low-back fatigue (different than the chronic pain that
previously afflicted me) for the first two weeks, roughly. After my back got
stronger (or something), I can now stand for as long as I want. I'll work a 16
hour day with zero back fatigue. I do get minor pains in my feet and more
significant pain along the medial aspect of my right knee, which I think is an
old MCL injury that's being aggravated by my pronating foot. The more I move,
the less these are a problem.

Edit: I use wire shelves, like a bread rack, for my standing desk. The kind
where the shelves are adjustable in 1 inch increments, and you can add as many
shelves as you want.

~~~
chopsueyar
Do you use an anti-fatigue mat on the floor? Do you think it would help?

~~~
nate_meurer
No and no, but that's pure conjecture since I've never tried a mat.

At work my office has the standard thin commercial carpeting over concrete,
which makes for a surface almost as hard as bare concrete. I'm usually in my
shoes at work, but I do sometimes kick them off.

I have a standing desk at home as well, where I work almost half my days. I
stand barefoot (in my socks mostly) on a thick padded carpet. To keep the
carpet clean I have a small area rug over it. Very cushy.

So I've noticed that I'm just as comfortable at work as I am at home.
Particularly, the standing surfaces seem to make no difference to the aches in
my feet and knee.

I've actually never understood how anti-fatigue mats are supposed to work if
you're wearing shoes.

------
oscardelben
I've been using a stand up desk as well for the past few months. Here are my
observations:

\- barefoot is better, especially with a low tech mat to make a soft surface.
I never wear shoes while working and I don't regret it.

\- the first few days are a bit tough, you may experience some back pain.
Nothing too hard, but depending on your body that could last up to one week
from what I've heard. After that, I'd never go back to sitting all day. It
just doesn't reasonate with me anymore.

\- the desk that you intend to use will make a hugr difference. I got mine at
Ikea after seeing a recommendation here on hacker news. It's basically a desk
with three adjustable panels, put the bigger in the middle
<http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/products/60111123>

\- it's important that you experiment with a few heits if you're unsure. A
couple of inches can make a big difference. Make sure that you eyes are
watching slightly below to avoid neck pain.

If you work from home, you'll love it. You can literally think while walking
around your room, there's no resistance rom a chair. You'll take more breaks
and feel better overall. And if that doesn't work for you, you can always go
back to a regular chair.

~~~
riledhel
you're using electrical equipment barefoot?? that's not too smart...

~~~
Groxx
If your floor isn't conductive, how is it different than wearing rubber soles?
Also, odds are your equipment has a grounding plug.

~~~
riledhel
Where I live it's exactly the opposite, and most sockets or electrical wiring
have not proper grounding support.

------
stretchwithme
Perhaps it is the lack of movement that is the issue, not what static position
one chooses.

Even laying in bed without moving leads to bed sores. Normally, we move around
even while sleeping.

How stiff our muscles are is more important. Stiff muscles are weaker and less
flexible. They tire out very quickly. And they tend to make us sit longer
because they are more difficult to move.

Being immobile for a significant part of the day makes stiffness worse. But it
does not cause it.

Its actually when we don't use our full range of motion often enough that we
lose that range of motion and get stiff. Sitting for long periods won't make
your muscles unhealthy; not moving enough, regularly enough, is what does it.

Why is this the case? If you fully extend and flex all of your muscles
frequently enough, the sheaths surrounding the muscles will stay flexible. And
circulation will remain healthy.

Its when circulation is impaired that using a muscle leads to stiffness.

There is a structure called the sarcomere that does the actual physical work
of contracting and extending our muscles.

The sarcomere can get stuck in its contracted position if blood flow is
impaired to it. And the sarcomere pumps its own blood, so getting stuck in
contracture means it can't get out of that state on its own. Only then do you
start feeling it.

So, this is a problem with a non-obvious root cause that takes a very long
time to manifest. Its no wonder it happens to most people eventually.

~~~
chopsueyar
Interesting that pet dogs and cats know how and when to stretch, no?

~~~
stretchwithme
and we would too if we weren't slaves to technology.

I think the brain naturally wants to be engaging with the world, but
technology is fooling it into thinking that it is, when its really being very
passive. So we sit and stare, sit and stare, while our fingers get all the
exercise.

Wii need a better way! ha ha

------
wccrawford
"even in a great chair, sitting all day is uncomfortable."

I disagree. At my previous job, my chair was extremely comfortable. I could
work 8 hours in it with no discomfort whatsoever.

I found out just exactly how good it was when I switched jobs and ended up in
a really lousy chair. I had pains that I didn't know where they were coming
from. Turns out the 'good' chair had made my back muscles lazy, and I was now
using them again. It took a few weeks (and a slightly better lousy chair) to
get back into shape.

I haven't pushed for a better chair at work because I realized something. When
I went to a conference, I had to sit in a folding chair and my back was so bad
at the end of the first day that I didn't go the second day. I blamed the
chairs. But in retrospect, I know it was my back that was the problem, not
their chairs. I'd rather not train my back not to tolerate normal chairs, so I
haven't gone for a deluxe chair again.

------
dontstandso
Standing problem <http://www.hazards.org/standing/>

Millions of UK workers spend most of the working day on their feet. Hazards
editor Rory O’Neill warns there are serious health reasons why they shouldn’t
stand for it.

~~~
forgottenpaswrd
This are not Standing problems!!

This are:

Women wearing high heels that constrain blood circulation(because "small shoes
with peak shape are so beautiful") AND standing on then, putting all weight on
toes as is not natural to do.
<http://www.hazards.org/standing/standingproblem.pdf>

Natural feet(from a person that had lived all their life barefoot) have not
the shape we are used to because shoes reshape it, creating bunions that do
not exist on the people that grew their feet barefoot.

With heels on your shoes you divert your weight to places where the body is
not prepared to handle it, creating knees and ankles wear and problems. Also
the upper part of the body has to compensate the balance from this artificial
diversion creating bad postures that bend the back on unnatural ways.

If you are interested, sitting down have a lot of hazards too.

------
mechanical_fish
I've been doing the standing thing for two months or so now, and at the risk
of sounding like a hopeless shill I am very fond of my Ergotron Workfit. It
works great. I stand, and walk around, but then my feet get tired so I slide
the computer down and sit for a while, and then I stand up again.

At home I have a plain old standing desk with no adjustability, and that is
worse because you're stuck in the one position. Maybe I need to geek out even
more and get an old treadmill. ;)

I bet the Geekdesk works as well, although I have not tried it.

This guy is right about the shoes, by the way.

~~~
abcd_f
Which Workfit do you have?

~~~
mechanical_fish
The one that straps to your desk -- not the freewheeling one, although that is
tempting for its own reasons -- and that has a monitor and a laptop stand next
to each other. I set my laptop on the stand and then use an external keyboard
and mouse on the keyboard trays.

------
reedlaw
I don't know how anyone can stand (pun intended) working at a purely standing
desk. You really need a treadmill to make it effective, both for your health
and comfort. Standing stationary for long hours is not good for the
circulation in your legs. Walking, on the other hand, is much more comfortable
and leaves you with a warm after-workout feel after a long day.

~~~
jordanb
Standing is much better for leg circulation than sitting, but I'll grant you
it's not as good as walking.

The thing is for me that I don't stand stationary, I move from foot to foot,
sometimes kick them around, and pace around the room while thinking. It
wouldn't work so well if I were in a cubicle though.

------
zachcb
You can also try walking while working, which is one thing that John Medina
recommends in his book, Brain Rules.

<http://www.trekdesk.com/index.html>

[http://store.steelcase.com/products/walkstation/?utm_medium=...](http://store.steelcase.com/products/walkstation/?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=SingleFeed-
amazon_productads)

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck-tQt0S0Os>

------
city41
I had a standing desk at home for a month and ultimately gave it up (I worked
from home that entire month, so it was used full time). Despite my efforts, I
just found I could not concentrate as well and gave up.

What about sitting on exercise balls?[0] Where do they fall in the spectrum?
At my new job they are all the rage and so I am trying one out. They do seem
to be a decent middle ground between standing and sitting in a chair.

[0] [http://www.gearfire.net/10-reasons-to-use-an-exercise-
ball-a...](http://www.gearfire.net/10-reasons-to-use-an-exercise-ball-as-your-
chair/)

~~~
nate_meurer
I used a ball for almost a year, and my opinion is that it's no better than a
chair overall, and in some ways worse. Items 1, 2, 4, 5, and 7 in the list
linked above are completely untrue in my experience. Not only is it every bit
as possible to sit with poor posture on a ball as it is in a chair, but the
ball actually _encourages_ poor posture in some circumstances. I found that as
the day progressed and I grew tired, I settled into a low-energy perch with my
feet wide, my butt hanging more rearward on the ball, and my back rounded.
This is a very stable position on a ball -- no core correction needed. It's
pretty much the worst posture possible, and it was extremely difficult to
mindfully avoid it.

When I get tired in a chair, I lean against the back, and if it's a good chair
I won't be stressin out my discs.

------
foxylad
I've been standing for a month now, and like it. I bolted wood to the wall so
I have a rock solid desk, which is great because you can rest on your elbows
when you don't need to type, giving you another stance for variety.

I wear slippers, but my feet are fine - it's more my legs that ache, but I'm
hoping that as they get stronger, that'll go. I relieve this by doing a few
squats, holding onto the desk for balance - again, good that it's sturdy.

This guy is spot on with his comment about the height being at your belly-
button - my first attempt was too high.

I also agree with his comment about laziness, in that if you don't have the
discipline, don't waste your time trying this. Standing is harder work, but I
think that's the point. If it was up to my body, I'd be sitting, or more
likely lying. And I'd be skipping the work bit too.

------
keiferski
I'm still waiting for mobile computer interfaces, a la some combination of
Terminator vision glasses and Minority Report hand gloves. Standing at a desk
is better than sitting, but why do we need a desk at all? I'd much rather
dance while coding.

------
jsulak
I've been using this hacked-together standing desk for a week and love it:

<http://dl.dropbox.com/u/410195/standing%20desk.jpg>

My feet are definitely tired around 4pm, though.

------
dstein
You don't really need a "standing desk" to try this out. Here's where I work
from during most of the day now:

<http://i.imgur.com/oQTGQ.jpg>

I'm using a laptop stand (from rain design) under some textbooks to lift my
laptop up to normal working height. When I get tired or my feet start hurting
I can quickly unplug my laptop and move the stand over to my desk and continue
right where I left off.

I have really gotten to like it. Once I got used to being on my feet
everything about my posture, well-being, and productivity have improved. I
can't recommend it enough.

~~~
wahnfrieden
That's a nice temp solution, but it'd be much better ergonomically if you have
the monitor separated from the keyboard and raised closer to eye level (or if
it already is at a nice height for viewing, the keyboard is too high).

~~~
dstein
This setup is more ergonomic than I thought it would be. A monitor does not
have to be at eye level -- that's just what you're used to with a sitting
desk. I look downward at about 45 degrees to the monitor and my hands are at a
slight incline. It's basically the way you would read a book while standing.

------
bennesvig
I switched to a standing desk this week, standing for 7 and sitting for 1. My
back is definitely sore, but in a good way. I'll probably keep going with it.

Also, going barefoot is the best way to do it.

------
eru
I'm using a standing desk, and I can't see why the author thinks he has to
wear shoes. ("Forced wearing of shoes.") I use mine barefoot without problems.

~~~
Goladus
I do, sort of. I tried a makeshift standing desk and the most significant
comfort issue was definitely feet, though standing on a pillow and walking
around occasionally helped. I suppose body size and type makes a difference.

Ultimately I think what made me go back to a sitting desk was (unrelated) lack
of sleep. Even when I could handle using a standing desk after being paged at
2:00 AM, the next day I'd be exhausted and lack the necessary willpower to
keep using it. I'd wind up opting for propping myself up on the bed with the
laptop, which is a horrible alternative.

------
Aloisius
I've been considering buying standing desks for our new office with stools
instead of normal desks, but I'm a wee bit worried about how potential hires
would react when they walk through the office on the way to an interview.

I do worry about people's health though and as long as there are stools, it
shouldn't be any worse than sitting at a normal desk (though I guess your feet
do dangle).

------
corin_
That Mashable infographic [1] is really awful, making so many terrible
connections. For example "Between 1980 and 2000 Exercise rates stayed the
same, sitting time increased 8%, obesity doubled".

 _[1]<http://mashable.com/2011/05/09/sitting-down-infographic/> _

~~~
ColinWright
Obligatory XKCD reference: <http://xkcd.com/552/>

The problem is that causation _does_ result in correlation, and sometimes we
need/ought to take action before things can be proven conclusively.

~~~
achompas
*correlation results in causation

~~~
ColinWright
I have no idea what you mean by that, because the obvious and naive reading of
what you've written is manifestly false. You might try expanding on it to help
me (and others) understand what you're trying to say.

~~~
achompas
I misinterpreted your comment and replied accordingly.

Your point was that causal relationships also exhibit correlation. I _thought_
you were trying to say that correlation between data occasionally (but not
always) identifies a causal relationship...and that's why I made my comment.
My comment is also missing the word "occasionally," as in "correlation
_occasionally_ results in causation."

So, in sum, I was trying to make the same point you made. Sorry about the way
I went about it.

------
kristofferR
I've been thinking about getting a standing desk, but I don't understand how
they are any better than a normal one. Sure, it's much better for the back,
but aren't they also really bad for the wrists and arms? Most standing desks
I've seen are really thin, with no place to rest the arms while moving the
mouse and typing.

~~~
pmjordan
Ikea have an adjustible height desk with sensible depth and width. I haven't
got one yet, though.

------
drpancake
I've been moving all over the place this year and ended up buying a temporary
bar stool for my current residence. It's pretty uncomfortable if you use it
for long periods.

Talking of 'rickety hillbilly engineering', my desk currently consists of a
chest of drawers, minus the draws. Quite a setup I've got here.

------
akent
My dead simple standing desk: laptop on top of a storage box on my kitchen
table. Great for whenever I have a sore back and don't want to sit down.

------
yters
I've been doing this for a fair while. Biggest benefit for me is it keeps me
awake better.

