
Ask HN: Why aren't I getting responses to my Who Is Hiring applications? - nikkwong
Hi everyone,<p>I&#x27;ve applied for dozens of jobs in the Who Is Hiring Jan 2018 thread, like I do every month. As always, I am ignored 95% of the time, with the other 5% of jobs responding &quot;nice stuff, we&#x27;ll keep in touch&quot;. The sentiment is nice, but obviously doesn&#x27;t pay the bills.<p>The reason I&#x27;m asking is because I consider myself pretty talented. I do fullstack dev and I also design. (If you&#x27;re curious you can see my resume here: https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.google.com&#x2F;document&#x2F;d&#x2F;1VijR1MF6xDNzH9IPrsv2UxLeC8sZ8nSF2Eux7lkuYQ8&#x2F;edit and my design work here: www.beaver.digital).<p>Are other applicants just ridiculously more skilled than I am? Or am I doing&#x2F;assuming something wrong? What has been the experience of others?<p>Thanks.
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DoreenMichele
Remove this from your resume entirely:

 _My work experience is limited because of my involvement with Fractals. I am
a highly trained and experienced software engineer—please don’t take my
limited experience as a reflection of skill._

Remove the word "interests" from the section titled Skills/interests. Remove
repetitive and vague phrases. You say over and over that you have _substantial
experience_ in various things. It is a meaningless phrase to start with, made
worse by overuse.

Move the education section to the end of the document. You currently have it
at the top. It isn't irrelevant, but it isn't the first thing people should
see either.

Remove this: _Passionate about learning and using technology to solve
problems._ It is not useful on a resume. Replace that line with one specifying
in a nutshell what your qualifications are, such as _Programmer and designer
specialized in Fractals._

~~~
zapperdapper
Agree with all of Doreen's comments plus "Fluent in server-side technologies
such as non-relational databases; NodeJS, etc" \- sounds vague. Don't use
'etc.'. I would consider removing all this and having a SUMMARY section and
KEY EXPERIENCE section and expanding on specifics in the work experience
section. Try a few different formats.

I think the format of you current work experience section could be greatly
improved - the dates could come first - at the moment they appear to wrap over
on to the next line - not good for a designer!

There are a number of other ways the CV could be greatly improved.

Once you've sorted your CV then I would consider where you are applying. You
should perhaps consider applying through agencies or directly for advertised
jobs. Also use tools like GlassDoor and Stack jobs.

Good luck!

~~~
nikkwong
Through agencies or directly for advertised jobs, as opposed to what? Those
are the only things I would consider. Thank you!

------
andrewstuart
I have read about 120,000 resumes.

"Fluent" "Proficient" "Substantial" "Professional experience" are all "filler"
words/phrases that add no value, remove them.

A resume should be clear about:

1: exactly what sort of job are you wanting? "Seeking full time salaried
JavaScript/Java developer". Be clear so that the reader knows if you fit that
job that they have in mind whilst they are reading your resume. 2: What are
your current, primary technical skills that you have substantial skill with -
do NOT list every technology your have written a few lines of code with.
Focus.

There's no right or wrong about this, but I don't like ultra short resumes. If
you spent time getting educated or working on large projects then this is your
opportunity to sell me on yourself. I feel like short resumes mean you haven't
done much or are not very good at articulating technical topics.

It makes no sense to me that someone would have a dry, ultra short, black and
white resume which includes a link at the bottom to the folio of an apparently
entirely different person. Why not have screenshots and discussions of your
projects in your resume.

Where is the phone number? Hopefully you are not applying for jobs by sending
a link to this online document. When you apply for a job, email the resume
document in PDF or Word format and make sure it includes a phone number. As a
recruiter I am far too busy to be bothered emailing people who provide only an
email address as their primary mechanism of contact. 999/1000 resumes include
a phone number.

~~~
FennNaten
" As a recruiter I am far too busy to be bothered emailing people who provide
only an email address as their primary mechanism of contact. 999/1000 resumes
include a phone number."

I find this one especially funny, being constantly spammed by unsollicitated
recruiters asking for a phone number to "discuss opportunities". My answer is
usually "if you have a good offer, write down the specifics without hiding
stuff and sent it by email. As a developper with a good full time job and a
social life, I am far too busy to be bothered on the phone for no good
reason."

I can't understand this belief that phone is faster and more convenient. Real-
time interactions are disruptive, and if you don't agree on a timeframe (using
async communication like email...), Most of the time the phone call will be
made at a wrong time, causing frustration for everyone.

So, not giving a phone number before some fruitful written exchange is a great
way to check if a recruiter care enough about efficiency and other people's
time. If not, well, too bad.

~~~
pandaman
They don't do this for speed. IMHO, they do it to get the information they
cannot (successfully or legally) request in writing: age, race, sex, salary,
your enthusiasm about getting a new job etc. Sometimes they just want a sales
call not dissimilar to your bank/cable provider/insurance/etc, which is always
funny for me: one thing is to sell some cable package or an insurance policy
for your pet, but do people really change their job because of what a stranger
said on the phone?

~~~
andrewstuart
I, a recruiter, do it to see if you are suitable for a job.

Hey there its Andrew Stuart here, I have a job on at the moment that looks
like it might be a fit for what you're doing, are you considering new jobs at
the moment? No? OK thanks for taking the call.

I honestly cannot imagine what recruiter under any circumstances, has the time
or motivation to call people up for any other reason.

The plain and simple reason that we don't use email to drive the recruiting
process is that it's a stupid way to operate - no one gets back to you iof you
send an email, whether or not they are in fact looking for work. If you need
to get the job done you call people.

There's no sinister ulterior motivate. Sheesh.

""Hey there, filthy recruiter here. Heh heh heh. Tell me now....... what
religion are you!!!!! Hmmmmm..... what sex are you!!!???? Ohhhh!!!! Well, I'll
file that VERY useful piece of information away thanks you, glad you gave it
up so easily.. Hee hee hee.""

Doesn't happen.

~~~
pandaman
Just like the GP, I routinely get e-mails asking to schedule a call with a
recruiter. If these recruiters did not use e-mail like you, then neither of us
would be getting these e-mails, right?

And, replying to your edit, most people can actually tell if they are speaking
to a man or a woman and some can even detect accents so they don't need to ask
(like they would have to if they were using text communication).

------
znpy
Imho we should have something like an once-every-two-months thread in which we
publish an anonymous version of our CV and can get constructive feedback.

------
chubot
Hm I have interviewed hundreds of people and looked at hundreds of resumes...

The thing that stands out to me is that you say since 2013 you've been the
founder and sole employee at Fractals, and if I'm reading correctly, it's at
least $200K in revenue a year.

I didn't check out the business, and I don't know how much profit you're
making. But I wonder how you divide your time between that and a "normal" job?

As far as the "Who's Hiring" threads, they are mostly 9-5 jobs (or more).

I don't know why people aren't contacting you, but I will say I have looked at
a lot of resumes, and that's not a common thing to see. I think it should be a
positive sign, but it might also be a signal that your interest is split. It's
expensive to hire someone, so maybe they think you might leave if your
business takes off (and maybe they wonder why you even want to work at a
normal job if you have that much revenue).

Honestly, a lot of companies don't want to hire generalists... they want to
hire specialists. I imagine startups should want to hire generalists more.

~~~
nikkwong
That's true, and I can attest to one company that I really wanted to work for
not hiring me specifically for that very reason (interest being split).
Fractals is mostly passive income, but revenue != profit; and doing it full
time would not give me much of a chance to meet interesting people in
software, or—well, focus on software, which is my main area of interest.

I do agree with you that I should aim the resume towards more of a single
specialization instead of an "I do it all" approach—so I will revisit that.
Thank you so much!

------
matt_the_bass
I think it is fantastic that the HN community is taking the time to provide
constructive feedback and recommendations. Kudos to all those replying in this
thread.

~~~
nikkwong
Yeah, did not expect to get any replies whatsoever. What I'm getting instead
is extremely enlightening and will cause me to rethink my approach completely.
Very lucky to have the opportunity to participate in such a great community.

~~~
matt_the_bass
Also, having your resume as an example, these comments can probably be applied
to others with similar questions.

~~~
nikkwong
would love for the help for me to translate to others :-)

------
bko
Don't put education first. At quick glance it looks like you majored in
business so the reviewer would think that you have little experience in web
development. I would put work experience, then skills and then education on
the bottom. Move up Fractals up top and rephrase this:

> revenues of multiple 6 figures annually.

With revenues of $100,000+ or similar. An actual number would stick out more.

Also as someone else has noted, get rid of the apologetic footnote.

~~~
andrewstuart
I couldn't disagree more. Most resumes have education at the top. If you spent
3/4/5 years getting a university education then you should be putting that up
in lights. I really don't like reading a resume, thinking I am reading the
resume of a person who is self educated, only to find that down the bottom
somewhere. almost in an ashamed manner, they have hidden their formal
qualifications.

If anything, add some context to the education to explain a bit about what the
degree entailed.

~~~
gumby
Having hired many people, let me tell you how I use the “education”: if you
attended the same school as I did I look yo up in the alumni directory. If you
attend the same school as one of my colleagues (and Ihappen to know where they
went to school which I mostly do t) I have them look you up. Other than that I
ignore it. Experience is what matters.

------
JonRB
The one thing I can recommend making your resume more visually appealing.

In its current state it's a very bare document and to me looks more like a
bullet outline of a resume. This could mean you come off as not having put a
lot of effort into making it. Obviously don't overdo it, but making it look
like a professional document will give you a much better starting point. When
I opened the link, I had to come back to the Ask HN post to see if you had
stripped the styling from your resume.

You clearly have a wealth of experience in a number of fields, don't let the
formatting let you down. Your resume is supposed to advertise you and make you
sound appealing. I agree with tlb's suggestion to get rid of the 'limited work
experience' footnote, it's not doing you any favours.

~~~
nikkwong
Thank you! I hadn't visited the formatting since college so I suppose it's
time to give it another look :-). Appreciate the tip.

------
tlb
My suggestion: be prouder of the fractal lens and Beaver design companies.
Both are impressive. Get rid of the "limited work experience" footnote at the
bottom -- you have plenty for someone 3.5 years out of college.

~~~
anitil
I with this. You could replace the whole resume with "I built
[https://beaver.digital/](https://beaver.digital/) and
[https://www.getfractals.com/"](https://www.getfractals.com/") and I think it
would be 10x better.

You've done great work, but the resume doesn't highlight it.

~~~
nikkwong
Hahaha. Thank you! I appreciate that. I'll revisit.

------
bjourne
Your CV is very unattractive. I would even say ugly. Learn Latex and make a
good looking one. You also need to write more for each position you have held.
"Web application development (ReactJS & VueJS). Java API development." Doesn't
cut it. Instead, write a paragraph describing your role in detail and exactly
what you did there.

Your site has blinking headlines, which imho looks very amateurish. Also,
skilled web designers are a dime to a dozen. Skilled programmers on the other
hand are much rarer.

Good luck with your job hunt! Not giving up is the key!

~~~
nikkwong
Haha. Thank you—I will definitely revisit the design. :).

Is it true that skilled designers are rarer than skilled developers? Having
done both I'd say they both present their own unique challenges.

------
nexus2045
Your skills section says you know everything, but your resume basically
contradicts / trolls itself. Get rid of these red flags first. Work experience
should be at the top. Heck, I'm sure you've done some software development
work even as a solopreneur; others here have made similar points. Job hunting
is essentially marketing yourself (in this case your relevant skills and
experience) for a specific audience (engineering manager that wants to see
what things you've built, HR that wants to look for tech buzzwords).

~~~
nikkwong
Got it, thank you. Maybe part of the problem is I just haven't seen many
'good' resumes. If you google 'resume examples'—most of the examples are
pretty laughable. I'll rethink it in the light you've presented. Thank you!

~~~
dsego
My advice, go to toptal's website and click on one of the little profile
pictures. The resumes are comprehensive and have a professional format.

~~~
nikkwong
Perfect. thank you.

------
lee101
I spent a bit of work on my resume which i made open source:
[http://leepenkman.appspot.com/](http://leepenkman.appspot.com/)

Your website www.getfractals.com and
[https://beaver.digital/](https://beaver.digital/) looks beautiful and works
well, with your C.V. your marketing yourself just as you would market a
company, make your C.V. hip like your websites

Also do as many comments suggest here, reorder things, i think your website
and fractal experience is a huge selling point, My games probably got me a job
here at Weta doing visual effects, Also Weta is hiring
[https://careers.wetafx.co.nz/jobs?search=&sort=recent](https://careers.wetafx.co.nz/jobs?search=&sort=recent)

Your experience developing fractals would be useful e.g. in writing Shaders
here in Visual effects i'm sure.

I agree you should try and tailor to a specific job e.g. that might mean
removing things about hardware/fabrication if its not relevant to a job and
adding other things that are.

~~~
nikkwong
Hey, thank you so much, very helpful. Working at somewhere like Weta looks
like it'd be extremely fun but I can't seem to find a job on the site that
matches my skillset. I'll stay on the look out, though. :-) thank you!

------
lsc
My experience has been that when you are looking for a job working for other
people after being self-employed is that the boss thinks you were "self-
employed" \- you have to get over this idea (in the mind of the hiring
manager) that being self-employed is just a euphemism for being unemployed.

Some things you can do:

Write about technical projects you did for your company... write them up a
little like they were different jobs, formatting wise. At least in the
sysadmin world it really helps to make sure you include the keywords for the
tools you used in those projects.

Remove the apology for the lack of experience... if you can list good projects
you did for fractals, you won't need to apologize or plead, it will show what
you were doing.

One way of thinking about it, depending on what sort of job you are applying
for, is that you are trying to re-cast your experience at your company as
employee work. I mean, I technically have been an employee of prgmr.com for
the last decade. That's absolutely true, and the IRS can verify, even though I
have also been majority owner for most of that time. Most technical jobs don't
actually care that you are 'entrepreneurial' \- they care about your technical
abilities, so recast on that, if you are applying for an employee job.

Fundamentally? that's the problem with trying to get employee work after
working for yourself. You need to convince your boss you actually were doing
something during your period of self employment - that you weren't just
unemployed.

The next problem, of course, is convincing the boss that you will focus on
their company and not yours, but in my experience, that comes up after they
are already interested. You need to be prepared for the question, though; I've
definitely bombed some interviews because I was not.

------
lykr0n
Expand on the line items under work experience and reduce the skills/interest.
You need info on what you did during the position.

> Web application development (ReactJS & VueJS). Java API development.

^^ Doesn't really tell me much about what you did. Java API? What framework?
Did you design the Interface or just implement it? Details!!

~~~
nikkwong
Interesting—my general belief always was that those kind of details would be
disclosed later in the interview process (as to not 'crowd out' the resume).
But that makes sense–I guess I'll have to give that belief a revisiting. Thank
you!

~~~
lykr0n
For Resumes, this is what I've been told by multiple people.

\- One page for cold or warm leads, such as whose hiring threads or online
application. Two pages at most, for familiar leads (such as 2nd day
interviews), such as "hey, we're looking for someone like you, if you shoot me
your resume I can pass it on". The difference here is detail on positions.

\- Keep education short and to the point. School, degree, program, and
anything of note. GPA if it matters (say Business and Accounting) or is of
note (3.5+)

\- Highlight competent skills. Angular JS implies Javascript. Only list stuff
that you are fine jumping into doing. I can do networking, but at a Jr. level.
It's not on highlighted on my resume. Nobody cares about something you can
kinda do well. You're not being hired on that.

\- Buzzwords, in moderation, are your friend. People, myself included, will
scan until something pops out.

\- Focus on work experience. Describe what you did at the role. Describe your
responsibilities. Describe your performance and accomplishments. Describe why
you remained employed. Think of this as the 30 seconds to pickup someone at a
bar. Give information, but leave room for them to be able to ask you about
yourself. This is what you will be interviewed off of. When you are talking to
someone- they have seen your resume and think you can work for them- they are
trying to figure out if you have what they need. If your resume doesn't appear
to be what they are looking for, they will move on. "Java?" "API Development?"
"Spring Framework?"

"Increased application performance by 20% in some cases while rewriting ORM"
will not only be impressive, but the person reading will want to know more,
like how and what you did. The previous statement shows an impressive
accomplishment, while implying you know what you are doing and you can bring
it to them, and also brings a tangible number. Follow ups could be, "What did
you do to increase performance?" "How did you rewrite the ORM?" "How did you
measure the performance increase?" "What cases did you see a performance
increase?"

"Build a Java API" leaves too much to question and doesn't tell much about
what you did. There is too much to follow up on, and there is a good chance
that they won't waste the effort. A better line would be "Implemented a high
performance Java API using the Spring framework on top of an existing
application for internal customers." That gives more information, some
details, and leaves room for the interviewer to ask questions.

------
whatyoucantsay
It's because the "talent shortage in tech" meme is a lie.

Nobody wants a competent employee in 2018. They want badass, unicorn, ninja
rockstars!

There's nothing "wrong" with you. It's just that the minimum bar is higher
than you imagined. Keep hustling and you can clear it.

Suggested reading: _Average is over_ , by Tyler Cowen

~~~
lsc
I think the standards on HN are higher (for the same money) and in general,
the standards for remote work are higher (again, for the same money.) -

From interviewing people for sit-down in-person contracting positions at big
companies in silicon valley proper? Finding someone who is just competent is
quite difficult, even when offering much better money than 'startups' tend to
offer.

As for the unicorn ninja rockstar thing, I'm pretty sure that's just startup
talk for "We want someone enthusiastic and confident" \- which usually means
they have to lower their expectations in other areas (which is part of why
they shoot for early career folks;)

------
goelakash
One thing I find is that you're description of your work-experiences is very
curt. I know you want to keep it long enough not to bore the recruiter/manager
types, but you may as well brag a bit more in depth so that they may expect
the amazing things you are wiling to do for them.

~~~
nikkwong
Thank you!

------
kogir
These are just my opinion, but when I'm looking at resumes I want to see what
the applicant has done. Tangible, real accomplishments.

Describe what you've done with your skills. What have you machined? What
hardware did you design? What did you weld? At the companies you worked at,
what specifically did you do? A feature for the website? Which one?

If you're applying for a programming role, don't lead with your seemingly not-
directly-related BA. Put it at the bottom.

Basically, after reading your resume I don't feel I know anything about what
you've actually done. That's my biggest problem.

~~~
nikkwong
That gives me a lot of insight—thank you!

------
dsego
You need to write a convincing and enthusiastic email (cover letter).
Highlight things from your resume which are most relevant for that job. Do you
have a github account? List it and push some code, anything you have, even
exercises and toy projects. In your resume's experience section write in more
detail about what exactly you did. Did you use redux with react? What TDD
software or tools? Which parts did you actually code, the login page, the
whole UI, or something else? What have you learned? Which Java framework did
you use amd so on.

~~~
nikkwong
Thank you!

------
IncRnd
After reading the resume, I'm not sure what you have done or could do to help.

For example, "Fluent in Javascript ES6. Proficient in Java, other common
languages, and several web frameworks," tells nothing about what you actually
did to benefit an employer or use a technology.

------
fern12
Add a link to your LinkedIn profile. I just searched for you, and came up with
a over a dozen guys with the same name, many with a similar background.

------
tootie
Last time I sprayed my resume I got zero responses. Then 3 months later I got
offered 5 interviews. Sometimes recruiters are just slow.

------
purplezooey
Isn't the problem that nobody really reads resumes that come in without a
referral. Sad, but true.

~~~
nikkwong
My experience would suggest that this is true.

------
bewe42
Keep in mind that HN is just a small window to the whole IT world. Look at
other, less narrowed places.

------
mindcrime
Two points stand out to me:

1\. You have a very broad and varied background, with experience doing a lot
of different things. This is a Good Thing in general, BUT... a lot of
companies just don't know how to use (or hire) somebody like you. Usually they
have a req for a (very) specific position, and a list of (very, maybe overly)
specific skills and experience they are expecting to find in the "right
candidate". It's hard for them to translate from your resume to their way of
thinking.

It's an indictment of the company more than you, but you have to accommodate
reality. My advice would be to pick some "thing" that is going to be your
specialty (front end development with React, backend development with Java,
hardware stuff, whatever) and make that the clear focus of your resume, with
everything else mentioned as just sort of an "extra" or "bonus". Hell, go so
far as to even put a "Bonus Skills" section on your resume and say "In
addition to the above, you'll also be getting somebody who can do: <foo>,
<bar>, <baz>, <etc>".

Note that if you take this approach it's probably even more true that you may
want to tailor your resume to match the position your applying for.

2\. Your work on Fractals. It's not clear from your resume how important that
is to you and how much of your time it takes up. A potential employer may be
wondering if they're getting somebody who's going to be more focused on their
own thing, than their work for $EMPLOYER. I don't have a definite answer for
how to deal with that, even though I've had to deal with the exact same issue.
All I can say is, try to find a way to make it clear that you truly have full-
time availability (assuming you actually do) and will be committing to work at
$EMPLOYER full-time despite the presence of Fractals. OR, if you really don't
want to work full-time, say so outright. Just note that not a lot of companies
want to hire part-time people. If you really want to go that route, you might
have more success setting up shop as a freelancer and do corp-to-corp
contracting.

Edit:

It just occurred to me that, while most resume experts in this day and age
recommend against having an "objective" on your resume, you might well benefit
from that. Imagine this:

 _Objective: full-time employment as a front-end web development specialist
using React, Javascript and related technologies._

That would serve two ends: by putting "full-time" in there explicitly it could
help assuage concerns about your availability w/r/t Fractals, and the rest
helps nail down exactly what it is you're looking to do. Then tune the rest of
your resume to provide support for the idea that you are, indeed, qualified to
do "front-end web development specialist using React, Javascript and related
technologies" (or whatever you put down in the objective).

