
Apple finally admits Microsoft was right about tablets - Tomte
https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/19/21186500/apple-ipad-pro-vs-surface-pro-trackpad-mouse-inputs-history
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eldavido
Classic case of execution over strategy.

I owned a surface pro 3 and wanted to love it, but god, it was just awful.
Short battery life, crappy eMMC-based storage, weird foldable keyboard you
couldn't use on your lap, display that wasn't so bright, rarely if ever came
out of suspend properly, the pen required two different kinds of battery (!?)
and perhaps my personal favorite, the display sometimes rotated sideways and
wouldn't de-rotate.

Pretty sure the iPad will have _zero_ of these problems when it ships, and
that makes all the difference, even if it's two years "late".

~~~
nikofeyn
> Pretty sure the iPad will have zero of these problems when it ships, and
> that makes all the difference, even if it's two years "late".

i personally find that a bold statement. my iPad lasted a whole year as an
apartment-only tablet before just outright dying, whereas i have the original
surface, a surface pro 4, and a surface laptop that have been heavily used
inside and outside and still work flawlessly. and before it died, the software
issues on the iPad were endless. on top of that, my macbook pro is useless due
to mac os x updates, a dead network card, and a few broken keys (that broke
all on their own through normal use, no drops).

personal experience is what it is, but you shouldn't make sweeping statements
based upon it.

anyway, i find windows 10 to be the superior os. i run fantastic windows apps
and a linux os all from the same computer rather seamlessly.

~~~
machinecoffee
>anyway, i find windows 10 to be the superior os. Why would you compare iOS to
Windows 10?

The better comparison would be Mac OS X (Microsoft I noticed couldn't _wait_
to get to 10, won't be long before they're calling it windows X I'm sure :))

I find Mac OS X to be the superior OS to Windows, since for yeeears I can run
fantastic Mac apps and build and run fantastic Unix apps all on the same
fantastic hardware.

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makecheck
The things that keep me from liking tablets are the software-enforced
limitations that _do not need to be there_.

Why, for instance, do apps _insist_ on controlling the size and layout of
everything? There are so many times when a simple pinch-zoom, pane-resize or
font-increase setting would make _everything_ easier. It’s certainly possible
to do, it’s just that software _won’t allow it_. That is a huge strike against
productivity on tablets; I refuse to be fiddling away in the arbitrary regions
of the screen that you have rationed for me, while you waste screen space on
things like gigantic sidebars I rarely use.

Similarly, only the system gets to decide what “tasks” I may move between, or
even see at once. That has _never_ made sense, and decades of bouncing between
overlapping windows with complete freedom should not have been thrown out so
easily. Worse still, one is usually punished in some way for having the
audacity to switch tasks at all! When you switch back, the app might have been
killed. If by some miracle the app wasn’t killed, it’s certain to at least
lose your focus, fail to save the last thing you typed, or enter any number of
other unsatisfying half-states (none of which are “exactly where I left off 10
seconds ago”).

~~~
WWLink
Yeah, this is why I hate tablets.

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mullingitover
I feel like iPads are beaten on both sides of the device size spectrum.

iPads got their lease on life because of the tiny screen sizes of the original
iPhone line. Once iPhones got bigger, iPad sales growth flatlined, and for
good reason. They're the worst of both worlds - too clumsy of an interface
(I'd say even with this new trackpad bolted on) for real work, and not
pocketable.

When I want to do something trivial and immediately, the phone with a big
screen does it just fine. When I need to do real work, a tablet interface is a
miserable experience, so I use a laptop with all the normal tools an engineer
needs.

I picked up an iPad Mini 2 and used it for a good year, but once the plus-size
iPhones came out it went into the drawer and never came out.

~~~
FullyFunctional
I think you summed it up perfectly. I was an early adopter, but the iPad never
worked for me. I'm more likely to crave a MacBook Pro I could put in my pocket
than a constrained oversized iPhone with a big screen and a keyboard.

I recognize that the security story is more challenging with a Real OS, but so
is the power and potential. I don't like where this is heading.

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msgilligan
"Finally admits" sounds like clickbait to me. Apple likes to innovate. They
often take a burn-the-boats approach. Eventually if customer preferences don't
follow Apple's lead, Apple backpedals. Microsoft is pretty much the opposite.
Then they meet somewhere in the middle. I've also seen this same pattern play
out with iPhone and Android (big screens, for example.)

~~~
msgilligan
czzr shared this insightful article which makes roughly the same point, but
much better: [https://medium.learningbyshipping.com/ipad-pro-gets-a-
trackp...](https://medium.learningbyshipping.com/ipad-pro-gets-a-
trackpad-a2d232689a97)

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ksec
Surface Pro is PC trying to be a Tablet. iPad Pro is a Tablet with
_additional_ capabilities to be use as a PC.

I dont see how one is right or one is wrong. It is a different take. Although
I much prefer iPad Pro.

~~~
NicoJuicy
Have you used a surface? It's more of a production machine than a regular
tablet will ever be.

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benologist
I think Sidecar was the real admission that Microsoft was right, and it's more
expensive and more limited than a detachable touch screen. If Apple made a
Surface Book with macOS it would be superior to the iPad Pro in every way even
if the software wasn't optimized for touch.

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rbanffy
I'm not convinced. Apple rethought how the pointer works in the context of the
tablet. iPads have keyboard covers for a couple releases now and were always
capable of using one - since the first version, which had a keyboard-cradle
accessory. The trackpad is not a mouse replacement as it is on PCs, just like
the pen is not one either (as it has always been with PCs)

~~~
ryukafalz
The pointer that’s being touted as so revolutionary... doesn’t seem that
different. Okay, it snaps to UI elements. But fundamentally, it still works
essentially the same way as any other pointer, right?

~~~
FreakyT
Indeed -- as far as I can tell the changes are not behavioral, only aesthetic.

That said, they do look really nice, and are (IMO) some of the best-looking
hover effects I've seen in years, so kudos to Apple on that! Microsoft can't
even seem to get its hover-effect strategy aligned within built-in Windows 10
apps...

~~~
pathartl
I can see it being incredibly frustrating in actual use though. If it's
anything like how the Apple TV's remote works, I expect it's going to screen
record as looking very intuitive, but in practice it's going to be all about
inertia and how to break out of the current selection.

I personally absolutely hate this feeling. Tactile feedback is useful for
things like knowing if you've drilled into a stud or just drywall... not for
moving a cursor around screen.

QUICK EDIT: It's the same reason we hate scroll jacking. Let me do my inputs
as it feels natural, don't have the app dictate how I should motion.

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liamcardenas
As an iPad Pro user, I don’t feel that it needs a trackpad. It needs better
software (and better keyboard hardware — which is coming along with the
trackpad, thankfully).

I want to be able to use it to type long-form essays and develop apps (it also
needs an escape key!). I want a command line and full file system.

I think they are adding trackpad support not because the iPad inherently needs
it, but because it helps their initiative of convergence between Mac and iPad
apps [0].

[0] [https://developer.apple.com/mac-
catalyst/](https://developer.apple.com/mac-catalyst/)

~~~
sjtindell
Why do you want an iPad instead of a really thin laptop with a touch screen?
Just wondering because what you’re describing sounds like that.

~~~
liamcardenas
Ah yes, life’s biggest questions. Do we have free will? Is there an objective
reality? Why have a tablet instead of a highly portable touch screen laptop?

Instead of answering that, I will just say that I am only suggesting
improvements on systems the iPad already has. I want better versions of
existing hardware accessories and more liberal App Store policies to allow for
fully-fledged development environments.

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chadlavi
Microsoft was absolutely not right about tablets. They were right about touch
screen laptops.

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jaclaz
Anecdata, one of the devices I have been more happy with (for
portability/usability/etc.) has been many, many years ago, the Compaq
Concerto, i.e. basically a notebook with detachable keyboard and touch (with
the specific pen only) screen.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compaq_Concerto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compaq_Concerto)

Some more pictures here:

[https://www.ebay.it/itm/Vintage-Compaq-
Concerto-2840A-Laptop...](https://www.ebay.it/itm/Vintage-Compaq-
Concerto-2840A-Laptop-Tablet-Portable-Computer-1993-RR-/323987928035)

The detachable keyboard made it very comfortable to use when on a table as you
could place the screen further from the keyboard.

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czzr
A much better take on this: [https://medium.learningbyshipping.com/ipad-pro-
gets-a-trackp...](https://medium.learningbyshipping.com/ipad-pro-gets-a-
trackpad-a2d232689a97)

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kitsunesoba
It’s giving a decent laptop a somewhat passable tablet mode (Surface) vs
giving a great tablet a passable laptop mode (iPad). Personally I’m banking on
the latter winning out.

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karmakaze
As a software developer, I can use a Surface device (I even use a Surface Go).
I can't as yet effectively use any iPad/Pro.

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valuearb
Microsoft tried to convince people to try tablets in 2002? Wasn’t Pen Windows
introduced in early 90s?

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als0
I wonder what Jobs would think if he saw Apple products as they are today.

~~~
gumby
I am a commited Apple user but every time someone asks this I always think of
the time he staged a whole press event to announce...an iPod dock. A product
that probably sold 100 units (or the apple equivalent) and sank never to be
seen again.

The lesson isn't that he's some sort of idiot, just that he had iterations and
flubs just like anyone else; his hit percentage was simply a bit higher.

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throwGuardian
Outside of the "cult of Mac", people aren't really convinced on a $1000
laptop-ish device, on which apps are only allowed to run after passing an anal
probe from the app store review team.

Which is why Apple stopped reporting unit sales on devices

~~~
darzu
I for one am grateful for the extra scrutiny iOS apps get. I resent that
desktop apps can basically reach into any part of my computer, take 20 seconds
to close when I tell them to exit, prevent my computer from shutting down, hog
all my resources when I'm not using them, actively steal focus if they decide,
fail to run because of some "missing dependency", and do a half-assed job
uninstalling themselves.

~~~
Epskampie
I completely agree, I want all apps on my platform (linux) to work like this,
at the mercy of the rules of the operating system.

However, app review isn’t a needed part of it, and I want to be the one in
charge of the operating system, as I’m clearly not on iOS.

