
Private police carry guns and make arrests, and their ranks are swelling - eplanit
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/private-police-carry-guns-and-make-arrests-and-their-ranks-are-swelling/2015/02/28/29f6e02e-8f79-11e4-a900-9960214d4cd7_story.html
======
nlh
The biggest question that comes to my mind when reading this: What powers do
these SCOPs _actually_ have? If an SCOP tried to arrest someone and they
simply said "no" or otherwise resisted, can that person be charged with
resisting arrest? Do the tickets they write carry the penalty of law? If you
don't pay them, can a bench warrant be issued, etc.?

There's obviously value in supplementary security in certain places --
otherwise mall cops and other private patrols wouldn't exist. But a mall cop
can't arrest you, and a private security patrol can write you a ticket but
it's meaningless if you decide not to pay it.

Curious if anyone knows more about this...

EDIT: Did some digging. Looks like the state gives them the power of real
cops. Amazing.

[https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-
bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+19.2-13](https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-
bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+19.2-13)

"a special conservator of the peace shall have all the powers, functions,
duties, responsibilities and authority of any other conservator of the peace"

~~~
EliRivers
_EDIT: Did some digging. Looks like the state gives them the power of real
cops. Amazing._

Surely at that point they _are_ real cops?

~~~
pc86
I guess that depends on if you define a police officer by the power they wield
or by the training they receive.

------
zach
From the article: "A handful of incidents involving SCOPs in Virginia and
nationally have focused attention on the training and oversight of private
police."

Well, many incidents nationally have focused attention on the training and
oversight of municipal police too, to put it mildly.

------
tsotha
In most US states _anybody_ can make an arrest if they reasonably believe a
felony has taken place, and can even make an arrest for misdemeanors that
involve "breaches of the peace".

As for carrying guns, WaPo might be interested to know there are lots of
places in the US where you can carry a gun without being a cop.

~~~
dragonwriter
> In most US states anybody can make an arrest if they reasonably believe a
> felony has taken place

IIRC, that's incorrect; in most US states, the rule is that non-felonies (if
lawfully subject to such arrests at all) subject to citizens arrest only if
they occur in the presence of the arresting person (not if the arresting
person merely reasonably believes that they have occurred), and even for
felonies the arresting person must reasonably believe that the arrested party
committed the felony, but the felony _must_ also have _actually occurred_ ,
otherwise the arresting person is liable for false arrest even with reasonable
belief that the arrested party had committed a felony.

~~~
tsotha
>...and even for felonies the arresting person must reasonably believe that
the arrested party committed the felony, but the felony must also have
actually occurred, otherwise the arresting person is liable for false arrest
even with reasonable belief that the arrested party had committed a felony.

I don't believe this is true, though I suspect we're getting off into the
details that vary from state to state. Certainly you're asking for trouble
making a citizen's arrest unless you're pretty damn sure you know exactly
what's going on.

------
jmccree
North Carolina has company police[1] that are required to go through the same
state police academy training as all other officers. This seems to be one of
the fairest models amongst the states for private police.

I first found out about this at the famous Biltmore Estate where they have
their own company police dept. It made sense when explained that the estate is
8000+ acres and it could take 30+ mins for the nearest deputy to respond and
find where they were needed. The company police are already on site and know
the estate in and out.

In almost all states there are private police statues for rail roads,
universities, FedEx[2], etc. Of course every government agency or authority
wants it's own police force leading to things like FBI Police[3] or Georgia
World Congress Center Authority Police[4].

It seems clear to me that any time you have a large private space, be it a
mall, theme park, college campus, etc., there will be need for private police.
What happens when there is no company police statute is that businesses hire
off-duty local police, leading to things like the NYPD Paid Detail Unit[5].

It's far more worrying to me to have public police working off duty for
private interests, than having private police who's jurisdiction are limited
to their private property.

[1]
[http://www.ncdoj.gov/getdoc/cda6467e-77ce-4f5e-bb46-502e15c7...](http://www.ncdoj.gov/getdoc/cda6467e-77ce-4f5e-bb46-502e15c78ada/2-6-3-1-1-3-Campus
---Company-Police-Officer-Certif.aspx) [2]
[http://www.semissourian.com/story/132255.html](http://www.semissourian.com/story/132255.html)
[3]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_Police](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_Police)
[4]
[http://www.gwcc.com/about/Safety.aspx](http://www.gwcc.com/about/Safety.aspx)
[5]
[https://www.nycpba.org/archive/nydn/03/nydn-030810-ot.html](https://www.nycpba.org/archive/nydn/03/nydn-030810-ot.html)

------
beefman
San Francisco has had a private police force since 1847

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Patrol_Special_P...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Patrol_Special_Police)

~~~
talmand
This is a major part of the plot in the movie Kuffs. It was the first time I
realized that such a thing still existed in modern times.

------
gayprogrammer
A lot of people are going to compare any kind of private police to "real"
police, but that' just the first step in coming to realize what a police force
actually is. It's not as ubiquitous and black/white as most people assume.

------
desdiv
Interesting fact: the third largest non-government-owned employer in the world
is a security company called G4S.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_employers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_employers)

~~~
chris_wot
And they are absolutely freaking dreadful.

------
known
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gun_owners...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gun_ownership)

~~~
unwind
One thing that I feel must be mentioned to put that list into perspective:
"guns" can mean a range of different things.

For Sweden (9:th in the list, with around 1/3rd the number of guns per capita
as the US, and also where I live), I'm pretty sure a very high percentage of
those guns are rifles, used for hunting.

Handguns, which _seem_ very common in the US, are very rare among people who
would have their weapons registered. I guess almost all such owners are sport
shooters; owning a handgun for personal self defense just doesn't exist as a
use-case.

------
seekingtruth
Oh dear, private citizens carrying arms and protecting private property and
life. Tut-tut!

~~~
chris_wot
Private citizens carrying arms to protect the rights and property of other
private citizens through the mechanisms granted to them by the state. I would
have thought Libertarians felt a little conflicted.

