
Looking back on the game 'Myst' on its 20th anniversary - libovness
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9713372/looking-back-game-myst-20th-anniversary
======
drawnalong
As a non-programmer, I'm surprised that folks aren't talking about Myst's
Hypercard/Hypertalk roots: [http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/05/25-years-of-
hypercard-t...](http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/05/25-years-of-hypercard-
the-missing-link-to-the-web/2/)

Also, Brendan Eich was inspired by Hypercard/talk as well when he was pushing
out Javascript:
[https://twitter.com/search?q=%40brendaneich%2C+hypercard](https://twitter.com/search?q=%40brendaneich%2C+hypercard)

Add that to the fact that Tim Berners-Lee was also inspired by Hypercard, I
feel like the web that we have now really is a big, beefed-up, networked
remanufacture of Hypercard.

Whenever I see a Myst screengrab I always think "Look, the Web!" Again, as a
non-programmer, this is probably just some useless observation, but its
inspirational and evocative to me nonetheless. It gets me musing that there
are some uses for what we've got now that we're not seeing, and some folks
should be exploring. For me, its storytelling, and I bet we could all do some
pretty damn cool storytelling with the toolkit we're sitting on.

Perhaps Myst doesn't actually demonstrate a hidden value, but I always point
to Hypercard and its friendliness & useability when smarter-than-me people
tell me Javascript is crap. People I know from that era that were technically
inquisitive tend to point to Hypercard and go: "Yeah! Hypercard was the shit!"
or some variation of that.

~~~
faddotio
Hypercard/HT was just used to stitch it together, most of the presentation was
done with the help of a crapload of XCMDs. I doubt the HyperTalk involved was
particularly complicated, but I can't say for sure, because they managed to
make the stacks resistant to introspection.

~~~
drawnalong
How much of a "market" was there in XCMDs? As in, were they commonly exchanged
or reused in any sort of open-source way, or were they written in-house? I
know we're talking about Myst specifically, but I wonder if there's any
community parallel to what we see with libraries & APIs now.

Although I'm just flipping over rocks looking for similarities, it's a blast
to see when and how certain structures have been tried-out.

Holy Smokes.. the more I read about Hypercard, the more I realize that Myst
was quite a huge hack!

The XCMD part is clutch. I'm curious what that community looked like, and how
that code was exchanged. Beyond disks, did anyone ever host anything that
looked like a repo on the early Net?

~~~
tomlu
> How much of a "market" was there in XCMDs?

There was something of a free and paid market for these, but it never really
took off. Discoverability was an issue in those days.

> Beyond disks, did anyone ever host anything that looked like a repo on the
> early Net?

Not that I remember.

------
breckinloggins
Maybe part of its popularity was the illusion (through pre-rendered images)
that your computer could show you more "real" worlds than you ever thought
possible. That was certainly one of the things I thought was so cool about
_Myst_.

If that's the case, it partly explains why nothing seemed to follow in its
footsteps: you can only pull the rabbit out of the hat once.

~~~
metaxy2
I think that really happened with Riven. It's easy to forget, but some of
those stills were as beautiful and realistic as anything being done in
realtime 3D games today. [1] [2]

[1]
[http://www.mysterium.ch/riven/pictures/riven_05.jpg](http://www.mysterium.ch/riven/pictures/riven_05.jpg)

[2]
[http://www.grandecaverna.com/myst2/myst2_eramoiety.jpg](http://www.grandecaverna.com/myst2/myst2_eramoiety.jpg)

~~~
jerf
Eh, I'd have to argue we've passed those. I'm pretty sure this is rendered
realtime, for instance:
[http://www.bioshockinfinite.com/images/media/screenshots/Sky...](http://www.bioshockinfinite.com/images/media/screenshots/SkyLines_FoundersSoldiers.jpg)

~~~
sillysaurus2
From a purely photorealistic perspective, that looks absolutely awful. It's
literally a cartoon world.

That was their stylistic choice, of course, and there's nothing wrong with
that. But it's off the mark to hold that up as an example of excellence in
photorealism. It certainly wasn't trying to look real.

~~~
jerf
I wasn't trying to hold it up as an example of photorealism. One of the things
we've learned since then, by virtue of our ready access to high-quality
realtime graphics, is that photorealism was overrated at the time.

Indeed, it _is_ a choice... and that is part of my point. We've not only got
very photorealistic graphics, we've got the experience to know we can do
better. Odds are Myst, if made today, would not be seeking photorealism
itself! I'm sure it would adopt a style too.

But in terms of quality, yes I still say this looks better. Where Myst has a
muddy, hypercompressed image that can barely fit the one visual theme in it
due to resource constraints, Bioshock here has the visual bandwidth to show
multiple focal points of interest, without it having to feel "crowded" because
it's so much bigger, and yes, all in realtime.

------
druiid
I think the Cyan Worlds guys might have the right idea at the right time. With
the Oculus Rift coming out at some point soon in a more general fashion, it
could be very good timing. I think basically this class of games could
actually be perfect for the platform. A lot of the video of trying to play
Team Fortress and similar on O.R. kind of makes me dizzy.

I think many people (myself included) would be very interested in seeing a O.R
powered 'Myst' game of some sort or another. If anyone remembers the movie
eXistenZ, I can somehow see worlds like that eventually happening. Would be
interesting stuff if actually taken outside of the sci-fi context!

Edit: The right idea at the right time was in regards to Kickstarter.

~~~
devindotcom
Yes, more cerebral yet immersive games like The Witness, Kairo, Dear Esther,
and Routine are definitely on the rise, and OR support will make some of them
really shine, I think. I'm really looking forward to those rather than, say,
Call of Duty: OCULUS EDITION.

~~~
tobobo
Thank you for mentioning Dear Esther! One of the most memorable games I've
ever played. I'll check out the others you've listed.

~~~
cshesse
You should definitely check out Gone Home then.

------
geuis
After a fashion, I think part of the success of Minecraft is because it ties
deeply into the open world, build and explore feelings that Myst hit upon.
Indeed, the audience of players is similar in how it ranges from young kids to
the oldest of us. On the UK Minecraft server I frequent, the average age is
late 20s up. Some of us are in their 40's and 50's even.

I definitely think there's room for Myst today.

~~~
duskwuff
I seriously doubt that. Myst was entirely unlike Minecraft - it contains a
finite amount of content to explore, and your interactions with that content
are limited entirely to viewing and exploring what the developers put there.
You can't create anything, and you can't go outside the boundaries drawn by
the game.

~~~
wtallis
Minecraft's lack of borders is certainly part of why it has managed to outsell
the entire Myst series (though it's less impressive when you consider how much
larger the market is these days, and how much easier it is to get to 12
million sales). But the atmosphere of mostly-peaceful exploration of a
different world is something that Mincraft and Myst undoubtedly share, and
something that hasn't been recreated by very many games in between. Bethesda's
RPGs do an okay job of allowing exploration, but they come with a heavy
emphasis on combat and a very in-your-face plot line that completely changes
the mood of the exploration. Minecraft and Myst just drop you into a new world
without any preface, challenge, or goal.

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drblast
I'm kind of perplexed that "adventure games" that consumed much of my
childhood seem to have died as a genre.

Myst seemed like another in a long line of fantastic games where the goal was
exploration and puzzle solving, like Maniac Mansion, Space Quest, Indiana
Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, etc.

I think Limbo was the most recent game I played that had that same feel.

Why aren't there games like this now? Is there no interest?

~~~
wolfgke
There are lots of these games (at least in Germany where they are rather
successful, although in its niche). For example I can recommend most of the
adventure games that Daedelic Entertainment (a studio from Hamburg/Germany)
produced:

\- The Whispered World

\- Edna bricht aus (Edna & Harvey: The Breakout) (don't be put off by its
graphics)

\- Harveys neue Augen (Edna & Harvey: Harvey’s New Eyes) - The sequel to Edna
& Harvey: The Breakout

The Deponia series from Daedelic is also said to be very good (haven't played
it, though).

I could list you lots of other very good adventure games from the last years,
also from other studios.

~~~
kal00ma
Could you list a few more? I'm a big fan of this genre (ever since the King's
Quest days)

~~~
ido
Windosill, Machinarium, a bunch of stuff from
[http://www.wadjeteyegames.com/](http://www.wadjeteyegames.com/)

------
ChuckMcM
So I've been playing through Mass Effect 3 again on the PS3 and can see the
sorts of influences Myst had on designers of more "modern" games. One of the
more interesting aspects where the 'side' stories, not essential to the game
but added depth to some part of it. Reading through the political infighting
in the email on data pads, or some of the radio stuff on GTA. All "atmosphere"
which, prior to Myst, wasn't nearly so prominent.

~~~
glenra
Marathon (released in 1994) did the same sort of thing - lots of backstory
revealed in drips and drabs via computer terminals. The team that did the
Marathon series (originally a Mac-only title) later went on to develop Halo.

~~~
tomlu
Remember Pathways into Darkness? AFAIK that was their very first game.
Brutally hard, and revealed the story in a similar fashion.

------
Zimahl
_Without Myst there 's no Grand Theft Auto V or Assassin's Creed_

Really? That's a bold statement. I don't agree with it, but it's bold
nonetheless.

 _There 's going to be some big publishers out there who will want to do this
[too]. There's big money here for them. And I don't think they went after it._

Off the top of my head I can think of 'The 7th Guest'. There were plenty of
rendered CD-ROM games just none as successful as 'Myst'.

~~~
seany
I actually preferred The 7th Guest to Myst. It was a much darker game though,
which probably hindered it's popularity with some people. The music/sfx in it
were fantastic imho.

~~~
Dove
If you liked Myst and 7th Guest, you should take a look at The Room, a game
that I would say is somewhere between the two both in tone and in puzzle style
and intensity.

[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.FireproofS...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.FireproofStudios.TheRoom)

------
jared314
The article doesn't mention Openuru [1]. Cyan Worlds released the source and
content creation tools to build custom shards.

[1] [http://openuru.org/](http://openuru.org/)

------
fennecfoxen
Would it be outrageous to suggest that smaller and narrower (but still
exploratory) indie puzzle-solving games like _Machinarium_ occupy a
substantial portion of the Myst-like niche in the modern video game market?

~~~
jljljl
It's part of it, but Myst's allure was always more than pure puzzle solving.
There were plenty of adventure/puzzle games before Myst, but it was the open
world, exploratory nature of Myst that was its unique appeal.

~~~
fennecfoxen
Perhaps _Skyrim_ etc, then?

------
6thSigma
Some of my most vivid memories regarding video games is playing Myst and Riven
with my friends. We took turns controlling the player. We would take notes of
things that might be useful in later puzzles with actual pencils and paper. We
stayed up all night playing it trying to get as deep into the world as
possible.

I still have a copy of the game and play it every once in awhile for
nostalgia's sake.

------
Apocryphon
Much was said when Bioshock Infinite came out that such a well-crafted world
(though admittedly, a bit more like a theme park than a believable city)
deserved to be the setting for an adventure/exploration game, not merely an
FPS.

~~~
GrantS
Interesting. Myst was a defining part of my childhood and I reluctantly put up
with the shooting and fighting elements of BioShock, Assassin's Creed, Red
Dead Redemption, and Mass Effect just so that I can experience and explore the
worlds in which they take place. Loved this article.

~~~
idProQuo
I felt exactly the same way. I "tolerated" the gun fights in Infinite, but the
story and world-building were what I was really there for.

I was talking with a friend today about how interesting it would've been if
Elizabeth's "quantum powers" had been explored as a puzzle solving device
rather than a "summon furniture" mechanic. I feel like that could've been a
Portal-esque revolution in gameplay.

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axxl
I think a Myst game with the Oculus Rift could be amazing. Especially with
some sort of wiimote type device to manipulate objects.

~~~
rocky1138
I used to play realMYST (the real-time 3D version) with my 3D stereoscopic
glasses back in ~2004 and it was indeed awesome. Exploring the ages was a
treat in real 3d.

------
elangoc
I love discovery- & puzzle-based exploratory story games. Grim Fandango was
another one, which I adore. It came out a few years after Myst, and I really
wished that they would make another Grim Fandango (or at least make it
playable on today's computers)!

~~~
6thSigma
ScummVM works very well for Grim Fandango, Day of the Tentacle, Maniac
Mansion, and other Scumm-based games.

I do wish they would re-release these games on Steam though.

~~~
thristian
A minor correction: Grim Fandango used the GrimE engine, not the SCUMM engine,
and it doesn't work with ScummVM.

However, ScummVM's sister project, ResidualVM, was created to do for the GrimE
engine what ScummVM did for the SCUMM engine, so you can still play the game
on modern OSs without too much hassle.

The likelihood of Lucasarts classics ever being re-released is miniscule,
since why would Disney put effort into putting out The Dig or even Monkey
Island when they could make ten times as much money from Star Wars?

------
lvturner
I think with the revival of VR tech (Oculus Rift) games like Myst might come
back round.

Actually the thought of a Myst-esque game on the Rift sounds like something I
could lose a lot of time playing.

------
andyjohnson0
Slightly OT, but boingboing have an article [1] today about companies in
Beijing that offer real-world "mystery room" scenarios that resemble Myst
puzzles:

 _"...customers are locked into single-room funhouses where they have to solve
a mystery in order to escape. Some mysteries are supernatural, others are
crime-scenes, and others are "hospital-themed." They're inspired by similar
video-games and cost less than a movie-ticket to play."_

More at [2].

[1] [http://boingboing.net/2013/09/24/beijings-mystery-
rooms.html...](http://boingboing.net/2013/09/24/beijings-mystery-
rooms.html#more-257625)

[2] [http://kotaku.com/escape-from-chinas-mystery-
rooms-136968856...](http://kotaku.com/escape-from-chinas-mystery-
rooms-1369688560)

------
dhughes
Other than the graphics the big thing I remember about Myst is the gameplay
was so different than arcade style games, it was a thinking game.

It was one of the main reasons I finally took the plunge and got a PC, nearly
$4,000 (1993/94 Canadian dollars) to play a game :P well more than that but it
was a good part of it.

At the time a PC in a private home wasn't really all that common, at least in
my region, so this hot game on this thing called an "IBM compatible personal
computer" piqued the interest of many people and drove sales.

------
splitbrain
Am I the only one who found Myst incredibly sterile and boring coming from
LucasArts and Sierra Adventure games? I never played it for more than maybe 20
minutes.

------
rocky1138
I once heard the upsurge in interest in comic books in the early 90s described
as though they thought comic books were becoming as popular as pop music when
in reality it was more like jazz: a lot of good stuff, but not widely popular.
Adventure games are the same.

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diminoten
There was another game of this genre (static user open world adventure??) that
taught intro physics, and you used the learned knowledge to solve the puzzles:

Physicus!

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6BC_ssnkaw](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6BC_ssnkaw)

------
pokpokpok
jonathan blow's the witness

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benihana
Myst's legacy is that if something is pretty, people will buy it, play it,
talk about it until the newest pretty thing comes out, then forget about it.

This article is completely delusional. Myst was not this huge, influential
masterpiece the way it paints. The Sopranos changed television. Myst did not
change video games. It was talked about like the Sopranos, but only for a year
after it came out. And it didn't have a lasting impact on the games industry.
It looked good for the time, then quickly became outdated and is clearly a
relic of its time, like wide, ill-fitting jackets and pleated pants. The
gameplay offered nothing new - better adventure games (like those offered by
LucasArts and Sierra) were doing more for longer. But its influence was an
illusion. Graphics have always been getting better and striving for more
photorealism. Myst didn't have any affect on that mindset, it just had decent
graphics for when it came out.

Myst's legacy is that if you make something pretty enough, the buzz it
generates will lead to huge sales until people realize it's an illusion. Which
is why these guys weren't able to do anything after Myst. Meanwhile, Grand
Theft Auto, Half Life, Assassin's Creed, and Zelda and Mario, these games that
Myst apparently enabled, continue to move people and make huge amounts of
money.

~~~
baddox
Serious question: if Myst didn't actively influence games, why is it that I
have heard of Myst despite it being "before my time" (I was 6 when it was
first released)? I've never played the game or seen anyone play it, and yet in
my mind's eye I can see the iconic art style, the iconic "M Y S T" logo, etc.
Does it just have a cult following that I've been exposed to due to my
participation in online communities and other PC gaming communities?

~~~
TylerE
It was a popular "pack in" title with things like CD-ROM drives, so there were
a gazillion copies distributed, even though it probably didn't sell that many
at full retail.

Edit since someone downvoted this:

"Released in 1993, it became the non-gamers' game. "Oh, I don't really like
videogames, but I did like Myst." It sold more copies than Kinkos - well over
six million. Everyone with a PC in the nineties had a copy, you'll be told.
And you know why? Because it was given away with absolutely everything. If you
bought a PC, you got given Myst. New printer? Myst. Upgrading your RAM, here,
have a copy of Myst. Vast piles of Myst were causing terrible landslides,
killing hundreds of children, all around the world."

[http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-11-20-retrospective-m...](http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-11-20-retrospective-
myst-article)

~~~
lotu
The guy seems to have a personal vendetta against Myst I might take what he
says with a large grain of of salt.

------
chrisgd
As a video game. Not everything needs a legacy

