
Airlines face investigation for splitting up families on flights - known
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/airline-flights-pay-extra-to-sit-together-split-up-family-algorithm-minister-a8640771.html
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JumpCrisscross
_Misleading title (FIXED —thanks dang)._

We don’t have evidence the airlines used an “exploitative” algorithm. Just a
statistical allegation and airlines’ denial of wilful malfeasance. To the
airlines’ credit, simply having lots of single flyers pre-selecting window and
aisle seats will lead to families of three or more being split up more
frequently; no nefariousness needed.

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hanoz
> We don’t have evidence the airlines used an “exploitative” algorithm

Don't we? Europe’s biggest airline said:

'those who don’t pay to choose a seat are “randomly” assigned one'

Well that is an algorithm for splitting non paying families up in almost all
cases, isn't it?

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PurpleRamen
It's an algorithm for allocating groups, not necessarily one that specifically
targets families. Splitting up families might be just a sideeffect.

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oliwarner
> She added: “Some airlines have set an algorithm to identify passengers of
> the same surname travelling together.

 _That_ reads like something that might specifically target families.

~~~
PurpleRamen
Yes, that is the claim of that Digital Minister. But there is no proof for it
yet. The cited europe’s biggest airline only admits that random allocating
happens, not targeted.

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adamisntdead
I have been thinking about this sort of thing quite a lot - while I do think
it's wrong to split people up on a plane, it is quite an interesting concept.

A similar but less malicious case would be one of organising the seating on a
train or in a cinema, but rather then biasing against families, biasing
against other, unrelated groups.

For example - in a cinema, you usually do not wish to sit right beside another
group when the rest of the seats are free. Still, you don't want to be that
far from the center.

How do you design an algorithm for this? How will it scale? How can you make
the most number of groups happy with their seats? How do you avoid having
individual seats that nobody wants?

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baddox
Every major cinema I know of in San Francisco allows seats to be reserved on a
first come first serve basis. All seats cost the same. It’s extremely simple,
and while there might be some negative effect for the cinema whereby people
won’t buy tickets for a showing if they see all the good seats are taken, but
I strongly suspect that is far overwhelmed by the effect of people going to
the cinema more often because they know they won’t have to show up early or
worry about getting decent seats.

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brokenmachine
Cinemas where I am usually don't have allocated seats. Now that you've
prompted me to think about it, that fact definitely makes me less likely to
go.

Pay money and have a fair chance of getting a seat I'm not happy with? No
thanks.

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cletus
Honestly I don't have much sympathy. People have gotten the airline system
they've asked for by basing their purchasing decisions solely on price. The
natural end result is that things that were previously included in that
airfare get removed and because paid extras in this race to the bottom.

Personally I don't even book an airfare where I can't pick my seats as part of
the booking process.

Now if the EU wants to create a passenger bill of rights of sorts that
disallows this and other practices (eg charging for checked bags) then fine.
But know that those charges will just go back to being included in the ticket
(ie higher fares).

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baddox
I don’t see how your comment addresses the allegations in this article. The
airlines allegedly use an algorithm that detects family members on a flight
and deliberately seats them separately to try to upsell them to manual seat
selection. That has nothing to do with any passenger making a purchasing
decision based solely on price.

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _airlines allegedly_

Researcher says it looks more than random. Airlines are saying it’s random.
Until someone finds proof of airlines biasing randomisation algorithms against
families this is all speculation.

“Europe’s biggest airline never admitted to changing the way seating was
allocated, insisting there was no change and saying that those who don’t pay
to choose a seat are ‘randomly’ assigned one.”

~~~
viraptor
It was a diplomatic wording. I've flown cheap EU airlines many times with
another person (20+/year). The first time I didn't seat with other passengers
is after the "pay more to guarantee sitting together" was introduced.

This is not even matching surname. If you don't pay, you're virtually
guaranteed that the other person on your booking sits somewhere else.

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scarmig
What's the actual allegation here? That by charging money to choose a seat,
families are discouraged from paying money to choose to sit next to each other
and so often end up split up?

I'm not a huge fan of the trend to charge for seat choice. But doing so lets
less price-sensitive people who are picky about seat choice to subsidize
everyone else.

To account for the safety issue, probably the ideal would be requiring parents
accompanying a minor to pay for one choice seat (in that, once the random seat
is assigned, they should be able to choose for the other seat to be adjacent
to it). That'd stick in people's craws, though.

~~~
konschubert
Maybe subsidizing kids to be able to sit with their parents should be
considered common decency.

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JumpCrisscross
> _Maybe subsidizing kids to be able to sit with their parents should be
> considered common decency_

Honestly, why? I sat alone on long flights as a kid. I learned to talk to
strangers, ask for juice when I wanted it, and get out of my seat when I
needed to bug my parents. Today, as a single traveler, I don’t want to
subsidise families who wish to travel together and not pay for it.

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barryparr
It's almost as if the airlines are saying, "Please regulate us. We can't
control ourselves!"

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nostromo
It's crystal clear when you book that you can either pay for a reserved seat
or be assigned one randomly. If sitting together is important to you, pay for
a reserved seat.

The constant complaints of Ryanair are ridiculous. You're paying $25 to fly
from London to Dublin -- an amazing deal -- so, yes, it's not going to be
first class accommodations.

~~~
viraptor
The difference is - this was changed from the previous approach. Before, in a
small group you sat next to your partner almost always. Now, you're actually
not going to sit next to them unless you pay. The airline spent time and money
to make this happen, so that is a real complaint. You can get randomly
assigned a sit next to another person from a split couple - so there's an
obvious solution that makes at least 2 people more happy.

