

Exodus: Israeli Army's Elite Programmers Head to Silicon Alley - nitashatiku
http://www.betabeat.com/2011/08/09/israeli-start-ups-skip-the-valley-go-direct-to-new-york/

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yuvadam
There should a be very good reason why you would want to relocate your
developers from Israel to the US.

Marketing guys? Sure, assuming you're in media or consumer web. You need your
salespeople as close to the customer as possible. But why move your R&D to the
US?

Developers wages in Israel are not even close to what a dev in the valley, or
in NYC can make. Junior devs start out at 15K NIS/month ($4250) and the cream
of the crop can make up to 30K NIS/month ($8500). Totaling to anything between
$50K and $100K yearly. What does that get you in the valley?

Not only that, I would venture to say that finding the tech talent in Israel
is easier. The mentality in the startup scene here is still not a cut-throat
one. If you look hard enough, you can find the right devs you need.

Having said that, the startup scene in Israel still isn't as vibrant as you
would think, at least when it comes to consumer web. The classic strengths of
the Israeli tech scene have always been security, enterprise, IT and hardware.
Consumer web? Google-scale? We're not there yet.

~~~
mahyarm
What is the cost of living there and the income tax rates? A 1 bedroom
apartment around Palo Alto and places close to it can cost something like
$1800/month. Just in rent alone you can 'make' an extra $12k-24k per year in
rent savings if a 1 bedroom is $800 in Haifa.

~~~
yuvadam
Funny you mention it, Israel is going through some serious protests right now
about the ridiculous living costs [1].

This thread is too small to encompass the entire debate, but basically taxes,
social security, mandatory health insurance and employee participation in 401k
equivalents end up chewing away about 40-45% of said salaries.

Living in Tel Aviv is roughly 70% the cost of living in NYC (measured by rent
prices). And remember that we make much less than NYers. Living in Haifa, for
example, is practically impossible if you want to commute to Tel Aviv. Public
transportation is horrible in Israel.

[1] - <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_housing_protests_in_Israel>

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wyclif
Why would you want to commute from Haifa to Tel Aviv? Just get an apartment in
Tel Aviv.

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rdl
The biggest problem I've seen with Israel as a non-Israeli is that it's really
difficult to get connected into their tech scene as an outsider. It's
especially difficult for non-white people (security will focus on
Indian/Pakistani or slightly less on East Asians), making the whole process
more painful. (I know a couple people with capital and tech skills who were
interested in working with Israeli startups, got a little bit of the way, and
then decided to leave due to discrimination and exclusion.)

The best way would probably be to have an Israeli cofounder or high-level
employee who comes with his own connections from past IDF service.

The other problem I have with Israeli tech people is they are very Microsoft
heavy.

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nitashatiku
I think the Microsoft heavy part is changing a bit. Starting with the IDF
programming units mentioned in the article switching over to new languages
that have gained traction. As well when start-ups pivoting into the consumer
web. Avner Amit from Taykey was telling me they switched over to open source
once they got to the US because they saw how popular it was. Israel has strong
MS developers because MS has a strong presence. Historically its made sense to
work in .NET

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benmccann
Is it just me or is this the worst title I've ever seen for a post? Compare to
the article title: "Israeli Start-Ups Skip the Valley, Go Direct to New York"

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wallflower
I've always admired JetBrains' approach to development and marketing. Most of
their core development is done in Russia by exceedingly talented developers
who do not have to relocate and can be close to their friends and family.

JetBrains is well known for their IntelliJ editor.

<http://www.jetbrains.com/company/people/team.html>

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adrianwaj
How does one setup a US branch of a foreign company? Who does the setting up?
At what point do US citizens need to be involved?

To me that's the interesting aspect of the article. Taykey has US investors,
is that the key? What's stopping an Indian or Chinese company from doing the
same?

More interestingly, are these so-called Israeli companies actually US
companies from the getgo? Does that make them more acquirable or floatable?

~~~
mahyarm
Well someone who's been working for a foreign company, if they've been working
in for a managerial position for a year+ can come in on a L1-A visa to
establish the new office/branch. (And it has to be an actual multi-person
company, not someone who's self employed).

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endtime
>But the ICQ sale illustrates the problem Israelis are now trying to address,
namely that there simply haven’t been enough boffo success stories like it.

Surprised not to see Quigo (another AOL exit, actually) mentioned
here...especially since I know of at least two Outbrain people with Quigo
roots.

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chopsueyar
Isn't everyone ex-IDF (except for the orthodox)?

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maayank
Generally speaking yes[1], but not everyone serves as a programmer. This is
(at least in theory) the basis for the group the article talks about.

[1] Exempt status is given for the ultra orthodox, arabs[1.1] and people with
major physical or mental health issues. There are probably some fringe ways I
forgot/don't know about, but these are the major ones.

[1.1] historically the IDF only fought Arab nations/groups, so it does make
sense not to make it mandatory to fight your own people (if you view it that
way). The fact that they can't volunteer however... It is possible to
volunteer to an alternative civil service though (or just not to volunteer, up
to the individual)

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MrKurtHaeusler
What sort of work visas do these guys get?

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abuzzooz
I wouldn't be surprised if many of them were born in the US.

