
Ask HN: Are one-page résumés passé?  How long is your résumé? - jadence
This came up last night at Hackers and Founders Meetup that iamelgringo hosts.<p>How long should your résumé be?  I've always believed that one page was the de facto length limit though last night there was largely a consensus that multi-page résumés were perfectly acceptable and even better than single-page résumés.  The rational was largely that 1) short résumés are, well, short and you have to cut information that could otherwise land you an interview and 2) everything is thrown into a database and searched so length doesn't matter.<p>Sample size was small last night (approximately 6 of us discussing it) so I wanted to hear the rest of the HN community's thoughts on résumé length.<p>I'm interested in hearing from job seekers and employers alike.<p>Thanks!
======
notauser
The best application I saw in a recent round of hiring was in four parts:

\- Short cover letter in e-mail.

\- Longer cover letter signed and scanned as PDF.

\- 1 page concise CV.

\- 4 page detailed employment history.

HR handed out the right bits to the right people and everyone was happy with
the level of detail they got.

All the worst CVs I saw came from agencies - not for content, just for layout.
They can start off with a perfectly sane PDF and reformat it in to some god
forsaken docx with broken layout and graphics, while adding spelling mistakes
and removing qualifications. It's downright infuriating - any time in future I
have to apply via an agency I will try and send a copy of my CV through
directly as well.

~~~
icey
I do hiring these days (I haven't used a resume since the 90s), and this is
excellent advice.

All of these points are great ways to show your attention to details.

I'm sure you used to be able to get away without cover letters, but today
there will be many more applicants than jobs; and I honestly won't even look
at a resume without a cover letter now.

Of course, it's much better to do something so that you don't need a resume
any more; then you don't have to do the song and dance. Network well, write a
blog or release some code; all are great ways to get known.

~~~
darkxanthos
What do you look for in a cover letter? I'm not too lazy to make one I've just
never understood the purpose. I think you might be able to provide some
insight for me.

~~~
icey
Well, before all else, I'm a software guy; not an HR person, so you will want
to take this with a grain of salt.

That being said, it doesn't have to be some kind of formal thing; the best
cover letters I've read just let me know that someone has actually read and
comprehends our requirements and their cover letter should tell me a few
things that sets them apart from the other torrent of resumes that I'll see.

In other words, it's obvious that you're applying for _this_ position, and not
just every position you see. Just like an employee wants to think that an
employer has hand selected them to work there, instead of just saying "you'll
do"; an employer likes to think that the person actually cares about what they
do and where they work.

------
wheels
People in general spend about 30 seconds looking at your resume. One page or
not, it has to be skimmable. Use bullet points and bold to bring out the
important stuff. Use lots of white space.

Lots of detail doesn't impress me. Your place for that is in the cover letter
where you write about the one or two things most relevant from your background
that are specifically appropriate to the open position.

I think one page is a good goal to have, even if you don't make it; it forces
you to trim and focus on the important stuff.

------
nickmolnar
I have a 10meg PDF resume (4 pages with lots of pictures, hyperlinks, and
partial nudity). It has gotten positive responses about 60% of the time, but
they are generally very positive. Having a resume that doesn't please
everybody, and stands out from the pack, is valuable. Even the 40% who didn't
like it will remember it.

~~~
markbao
...I don't even want to know.

~~~
sdpurtill
Impossible is the Opposite of Possible

------
DanielBMarkham
I've been many times on both sides of the desk.

What I found as a resume presenter is that the readers, many times technical
folk, (at least once you get through the gatekeepers) always want detail. Lots
of detail. Except when they don't.

So I gave up on one page resumes. Instead, page one has a bullet list of
benefits I bring to the job that nobody else does -- sales points. The rest of
the pages list jobs, technologies, and roles. Being somebody who gets around a
lot, this section runs on for several pages.

I haven't heard any complaints. Usually the wordy part of the resume generates
enough keywords to hit on database searches, which is step 1. The bullet list
scores the initial interview which is step 2. The initial interview is just a
technical "smoke test" and an attitude/availability check, then we're on to
the tech interview, which is step three. During the tech interview, it's
usually technologies and industries, with me quoting from the wordy part of my
resume as the reviewer pages along.

I haven't been in the market for many years (it's all word of mouth after a
while), but this format, along with the right experiences, put me in the top
few slots at most places I competed.

------
makaimc
One of the Booz & Co. partners I recently talked to said he has two piles of
resumes: 1 page and 2+ pages. He reviews the 1 page resumes for good
candidates and puts the longer resumes in the garbage without looking at them.
A resume's purpose is to get you an interview- not describe your life's story.

------
iigs
Been doing a few interviews lately. Here's my take:

The following things values are logarithmic or exponential (depending on the
case), not linear:

1) Page count -- One page isn't a hard limit anymore. Your resume has to go
through keyword systems and spends most of its HR/recruitment life as a .doc
file. The computer doesn't care and you're not getting graded on making it an
appropriate length.

2) The value of the words on each page -- Make your first page count. I try
pretty hard to read the first page or so but start to lose interest as things
progress. If the resume reads like a monotonous diary of your activity over
the last two decades, nobody's going to be able to tell which words they
should read and important stuff will be glossed over.

3) The age of the experience -- If you did something really excellent more
than five years ago, definitely include it, but you should allocate more space
to more recent experiences. If you have three bullets each from your last
three jobs and eighteen bullets from the fourth most recent, you're going to
look like you have no career inertia or that you're just looking to park. If
you have ten years of experience you can skip the details of what your college
jobs were -- if they're in field include enough information to show how your
career arc builds, but recruiters won't care about individual accomplishments.

4) Accomplishments, not tasks -- Your most recent job or two should show a few
tasks but an overwhelming bias toward things that you _actually did_. A list
of tasks you were charged with just shows what you didn't like doing enough to
continue doing it. The balance should shift as the experience ages -- maybe
20/80% tasks/accomplishments in the first job, 10/90% over the next few, but
blending back to 50/50% or even lower as the experience ages. Again, the older
or extra-field ones should be especially short.

Personally I try to walk the walk on these points, and I also maintain a
couple different versions of my resume. The version that I put into the job
sites has a "products used" section near each job to pander to lazy recruiters
who put "solaris" into the search box when they need a UNIX system
administrator. I generally do not prefer to use these resumes after making
contact with the recruiters, because no human cares what versions of SQL
server I touched at a job five years ago.

------
ilamont
Paper resumes are fading. Most employers now read them on a screen, either
through an online job service, LinkedIn, or an email attachment.

As someone who is in the process of hiring two people, I think the on-screen
equivalent of one page is too short. I can handle scrolling down for another
page or two, but any more than that makes me suspect that it's a data dump,
and will require extra effort to glean the important points. Often I receive
resumes in batches (20 at a time, delivered by email), so opening a bunch of
excessively long resumes would start to drag on my time.

------
yummyfajitas
2 pages is fine. Just don't try to puff it up with irrelevant crap to inflate
the page count.

Awards:

\- Math genius prize at University

\- ...

\- 8th grade spelling bee champion <\- FAIL

------
run4yourlives
As both someone who has been hired, and someone who has hired, I have no
problem with resumes that are 1+ pages, provided there is relevant content.
Nobody else I know would expect everything to be on a single page.

This is especially true in IT, where I want you to explain the projects you
worked on, your role, and the eventual outcome. That means a paragraph in
written form, and two or three of those take space.

This all being said, I'm not going to read any novels. Let me scan your
history easily, but then get details if need be.

------
rcoder
Mine is plaintext, and probably 1-2 pages when printed. Anything that doesn't
make the cut for the first page or so goes in the cover letter, or is already
somewhere on my blog or in Google, so I don't sweat it.

I actually used the layout of a UNIX 'man' page for a while, which got lots of
chuckles, but no offers, so now it's just simple Markdown-like text.

------
timr
How long _should_ it be? The premise of the question is flawed -- nobody is
going to shoot you if you don't submit a one-page resume. There's no law
against it.

But if a resume is little more than a marketing tool, then brevity is your
friend. One page is _better_ than four, even if your career can fill ten.

(One notable exception: if you're in academics, long CVs are considered better
than short. Academia is not the real world.)

~~~
yummyfajitas
>(One notable exception: if you're in academics, long CVs are considered
better than short. Academia is not the real world.)

Actually, that isn't strictly true. A short academic CV can stand out. As one
interviewer said to me, "your CV had no BS on it."

A CV should only be long if your list of publications is (though of course, it
will be longer than a resume, since it must include this list).

------
nostrademons
Mine's two pages and seems to be generating interest at the places I've sent
it to.

My sister does recruiting for ConocoPhillips (admittedly, a very different
industry) and also ran a resume-writing workshop when she was in grad school.
She was adamant about not going over 2 pages. The reason is that your resume
will likely be printed out, handed to other people in the department, thumbed
through, and taken to your interview. If it's on 1 or 2 pages, it'll fit on
one sheet (single or double sided), but if it's on 3 or more, you need a
stapler, and that's really inconvenient for people whose daily
responsibilities don't include shuffling paper (i.e. anyone in scientific or
engineering departments that'll actually be making the hiring decision).

When I looked over resumes at my last employer, I had the same opinion: 1 or 2
pages is fine because we've got an industrial-strength printer that can do
double-sided printing, any more than that's a pain.

------
cperciva
Pages? What are those?

My CV is 214 lines long, and each line is up to 78 ASCII characters. (Before
anyone asks, yes, my CV is nicely formatted with clear sections and bullet
points within each section.)

~~~
tesseract
A page is "58 lines followed by a form feed". For RFCs anyway.

~~~
darkxanthos
snap!

------
tamersalama
This thread is yet another proof that the current recruitment process (in any
and all companies) is flawed (and yes, mine have been rejected before).

The reason is it is 'still' a personal taste process. No matter what you do,
how you sell, what you write, how you think, it's still up to the personal
taste of some person whether to give a green light or not. That taste is
subject to then need, experience, skill-level, mood, coffee, <anything u like
to add> of the decision-making person.

It's not that I'm bitter, it's that, being a person who's passionate about
what he does (as many others here), I 'know' it can be better.

Resumes are the first wrong step in the process. Why do we still rely on them?
Because other alternatives aren't as easy/available.

Note: wrong step does not always mean wrong outcome.

------
Locke
The goal of a resume / cover letter are to land an interview. It's not an
autobiography.

I can say from personal experience that one does not completely read hundreds
of resumes. When I was hiring I would get just as much info from a short
resume as I would from a long resume. The key difference is that with a
shorter more focused resume you have more control over _what_ I actually take
away from your resume.

So for that reason I use a one page resume that's tightly focused on _what I
want to do_ , not everything I've ever been capable of doing.

But I don't want my resume in some HR or recruiter database, either. A long
resume make work better if you prefer the shotgun approach to finding work...

------
raffi
I had lots of interest with a 2 page resume but found restricting myself to 1
page forced me to hit the high notes and focus on what message I want to send.

I found this necessary when an employer put me through a 5 hour interview for
a web developer position. I thought I was applying for a research position but
someone saw web experience in my ancient history and lined up the interviewers
to steer things that way. Granted I was offered the research position later,
still... the interview would have benefited by skipping the web stuff.

Also there is something to be said for making them want more.

------
browser411
Brevity is the soul of wit.

I think a 1 page resume is essential. Even Gates or Jobs could have a kick-ass
1 pager.

Exceptions include a need to list technical details like published
papers/books, patents, etc.

~~~
byrneseyeview
<http://homepage.mac.com/steve/Resume.html>

~~~
nihilocrat
He included "References available upon request". That's a waste of space
(either more content, or more whitespace), because it's assumed you'll produce
references when requested.

------
noodle
one page, with major points extremely visible (larger, bold, etc). well-
designed and easy on the eyes. and you should modify your resume to each
specific job you apply for.

why? two reasons (this is information i've obtained from HR personnel that i
personally know, it isn't simply heresay):

most resumes go through non-technical HR people. they aren't involved in the
department doing the hiring -- they're just there to screen the resumes. if a
resume _appears_ irrelevent, they will trash it. if they have to read it in
full to effectively screen it, they will trash it. some HR reps will trash
multi-page resumes just in principle. the point is, they will spend less than
30 seconds per resume and any obstacles to that time limit will get your
resume screened out.

second, you don't want to tell your whole story in novel form on your resume.
your resume is your hook and you want to reel in employers to get you on the
phone or in person. that is where you get to talk to them in detail about what
you do, what you've done, and get to impress them.

------
misterbwong
A general rule that I've read is that two (maybe three page) resumes are OK
but the most important information MUST be on the first page.

In essence, if I were to take a multi-page resume and the last pages were
ripped off/somehow went missing, the first page would still be strong enough
to make the applicant's case.

------
speby
In general, 1 page is still the norm, for several reasons, not the least of
which when you print it out (for any reason) you don't have to staple or keep
multiple pages together.

Secondly, there is very little reason that your resume (not the totality of
your experience) can't fit on one page _if_ you tailor it specifically for the
position you are applying for. In fact, the best candidates are the ones that
are most prepared because they thought critically about the position, its
requirements, "good to haves" and any related experience that pertains being
able to contribute in that role and thus customized their resume specifically
for that position.

So, net effect is you should tailor your resume specifically and customized
for every single position you apply for, anywhere.

------
arupchak
If you're applying for a specific position, a one page resume highlighting
your specific skills and past projects pertaining to the job is a good idea.
The time to elaborate on a past project or experience that is not directly
relevant is the interview.

Remember how your resume is going to be treated (at least at a larger
company). It is first going to go through a screener (a recruiter or even a
keyword search), then it will go to someone technical on a team.

Always remember that the main point is to get the interview, that's it.

Also, please please proof read your resumes. I actually had a QA engineer with
a spelling error on his resume.

------
skmurphy
I have hired more forty people--a mix of employees and contractors--as a
manager in technology companies. One page and a cover letter/section (perhaps
100 lines total) is the most that will get read before a hiring manager
decides to give you a call.

Or not.

Tailor your experience to the position you are applying for in a cover
letter/section and in what you highlight in the resume. It's a sales pitch not
an autobiography that should be designed to get a phone screen or an invite to
an interview.

I would focus on getting it into the hiring manager's hands with an
endorsement from someone they trust.

------
johnb
I'm surprised no one has put a link to
[http://www.randsinrepose.com/archives/2007/02/25/a_glimpse_a...](http://www.randsinrepose.com/archives/2007/02/25/a_glimpse_and_a_hook.html)
in yet.

I've been the technical reviewer on a lot of hires and found Rand's process
fairly similar to mine. I think it's good that he views the document as having
2 purposes: the first being to get through all the recruiters/HR to get it
into the tech reviewer's hands, the second being grabbing the reviewer's
attention enough that you get an interview.

------
dfranke

      dfranke@feanor:~$ wc resume.txt 
        99  620 4016 resume.txt

------
boucher
I can say that in my experience interviewing potential candidates, everyone I
worked with generally hated lengthy resumes, but I was the only one who cared
enough to dock people for them.

It's not _that_ important, but ultimately, a concise resume reflects on your
communication skills. Being able to summarize the most relevant information is
an important skill, even in the software industry.

------
qhoxie
It depends on a lot of factors like duration and type of experience. I would
say that people are moving toward a _don't cut out important details_ school
of thought. One approach I have seen and enjoyed is compiling a common single
page resume and then having a second/third page as deeper explanations of past
positions.

------
sctb
I have submitted a 2 page CV with a 1 page personalized cover letter in the
past. I have signed reference letters as well, which are handy to bring to an
interview. That being said, with all of the jobs that I've received offers
for, the employer knew who I was and had a good idea of my background before
ever receiving my CV.

------
neilc
One interesting idea is to format your resume as a mind map[1]. You're likely
to get either very positive or very negative responses, but I'd be curious to
know if anyone's tried it.

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_map>

------
huherto
The number of pages will depend on your experience. If you are just out of
school one page is fine. I have almost 20 years (ouch!) so it is hard to make
it fit in three pages.

------
hs
ZERO

resumes never win me any job offers, neither does schooling; however, past
projects and works do

on topic, my 5? years old lost resume was 1 page long

------
paraschopra
3 pages

------
speek
1 page.

Simple.

Eye-catching.

