
John Dvorak: “Yesterday I was fired from PC Magazine” - leothekim
https://twitter.com/THErealDVORAK/status/1043180806020116480
======
ordinaryperson
About 12 years ago I was working for a PC Magazine competitor when they cut
the Managing Editor loose, a man who'd worked there 20+ years and was in his
late 50s.

I ran into him in the bathroom, tears in his eyes, asking me what he was going
to do now? That this is how they reward decades of loyalty?

Ironically that magazine, dedicated to predicting future technology trends,
would go down the toilet some years later because they didn't see technology
trends like Google and internet advertising coming.

Companies have no loyalty folks...neither should you.

~~~
redm
"Companies have no loyalty folks...neither should you."

That's a broad brush to paint with; companies are just a group of people, not
some inhuman construct. People make the decisions and just like every other
aspect of life, some people care don't put their impact on others first, or
can't because of circumstances. Not every company discards employees like
garbage, and it's a lousy narrative to propagate.

~~~
jccalhoun
That may be true but then your boss's boss fires my boss and brings in someone
new and doesn't know or care about you or your company gets bought just to
shut down a competitor or any of a million other things.

------
yjftsjthsd-h
The funny thing is, if you gave me the option of reading a Dvorak article or
an arbitrary PC Mag article, all other factors held fixed, I would pick Dvorak
every time. That is, they just laid off an asset that was more valuable than
the rest of the company.

~~~
XalvinX
Absolutely true. Dvorak should start his own venture...a lot of fans would
jump (the sinking) ship in an instant.

~~~
orionblastar
He should do his own Wordpressed based blog with Adsense and other
advertisment on it to earn money. Do podcasts and stuff like that.

~~~
_mdpn
If you didn't know, he has a blog
([http://www.dvorak.org/blog/](http://www.dvorak.org/blog/)) and is a co-host
of the No Agenda Show Podcast
([http://www.noagendashow.com/](http://www.noagendashow.com/)) and DHUnplugged
([https://www.dhunplugged.com/](https://www.dhunplugged.com/))

------
blihp
While Dvorak's right that it was a shabby way to end things, it very well may
be that PC Mag is on its way to shutting down. Note that the screenshot of the
email notifying him indicated they were going to 'put all outside columns on
hiatus.' That sounds like pure cost cutting to me.

~~~
busterarm
Is Tim Bajarin still a columnist for PC Mag? Wayne Rash? Whitson Gordon? Brent
Johnson?

~~~
blihp
No idea. Assuming those are all 'outside columns' (I don't know as I haven't
read PC Mag in years), it seems like the veracity of the story Dvorak's been
told will become clear very soon.

~~~
busterarm
They're listed as Columnists (as opposed to Contributing Editor, which means
you're an employee), have non-pcmag.com (unlike all of their other authors)
email addresses in their Author Bios on PC Mag's site and with one exception
(a twice-yearly contributor anyway) they all have published PC Mag articles
within the last week. Moreover, they all have full-time jobs which are not at
Ziff Davis.

Knowledge is power.

~~~
ternaryoperator
> (as opposed to Contributing Editor, which means you're an employee)

It might mean that at PC Mag, but it definitely does not mean that on other
magazines. In fact, at most publications it refers to someone who is _not_ an
employee. For more, see [1]

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contributing_editor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contributing_editor)

~~~
busterarm
You're certainly right. In fact most authors actually have Analyst or
Reporter. I was looking at Tim Gideon and a few others as an example, who
happen to have a pcmag emails. Thank you for the correction.

------
teilo
He may always have been wrong, but he was like a lovable crazy uncle who is
always wrong. This is a terrible way to treat a legend.

~~~
HankB99
I won't have that!

He wasn't always wrong.

~~~
teilo
You know what they say about stopped clocks...

------
mc32
This is really too bad. After 36 years, they don't have the courage and
decency for a call.

On a side note, I had always assumed 'Dvorak' was a penname --however, I've
learned he's actually related to the actual Dvorak Keyboard creator.

~~~
bitwize
You _may_ be confusing him with Robert X. Cringely, which is a pen name.

~~~
WalterBright
Back at Caltech in the 70s, user accounts on the DECSystem 10 had 3
characters, and was set as the student's initials. One fellow had no middle
name, so he used 'x'.

He got so used to it he legally changed his name so his middle name was 'X'.

~~~
kgwgk
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_X._Cohen](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_X._Cohen)
is actually David S. Cohen but the name was already taken.

------
kolanos
If you need your JCD fix, he does a bi-weekly podcast with Adam Curry called
No Agenda. [0]

[0]: [http://noagendashow.com](http://noagendashow.com)

~~~
propogandist
They don't have advertisers (listener funded) so they're able to sift through
the news in a reasonably balanced way.

Each show also has crowd-sourced, listener produced podcast album art that's
generated about an hour after the show airs live.

Try listening to the noagendashow at 2X speed to start.

~~~
jccalhoun
I've tried to listen to NoAgenda twice and both times it was conspiracy theory
borderline-racist garbage

~~~
jmanderley
You didn't miss anything, that's what the show is.

------
colordrops
There must be something to learn from Dvorak because he seems to have done
something rare among the HN crowd, and that is being both very wrong and very
appealing at the same time.

~~~
fit2rule
I'm curious how being very wrong is a liability for a journalist? Can you give
me some examples where the being wrong part violates the ideal, and maybe
explain what that ideal is, in the tech world?

To me, a reader of his since the very beginning, Dvorak has been wrong about a
lot of things - but him being wrong has prompted much discussion in the
broader world of things, and he is truly one of the very first 'social media
influencers' of the tech world. I spent many a day in the 80's and 90's
discussing mag articles with colleagues, in the ops centres, the desktops, the
laptop and now the pocket era's, and .. it seems .. whatever Dvorak has to say
about something, is going to get a rise.

But if there is some other standard by which such a rabble-rouser might be
judged, I'd like to know. I seem to have missed something.

~~~
asveikau
Being wrong about tech probably has no ill consequences. But the
quintessential example of journalists being wrong as a moral failure that I
always think of is the lead-up to the Iraq War. Even that had historical
precedents too, eg. the Spanish-American War ~100 years prior was also ill
served by journalism.

~~~
fit2rule
So you could argue that Dvorak has been a dark influence on tech, since he
convinced (by stint of his popularity) a lot of people to be wrong on things,
quite a few time?

I mean, in the case of war journalism the standards are pretty high. But for
computer tech .. its really more just an industrial mob being led by a
malcontent loud-mouth boldly corralling the in-cognoscenti with his megaphone
de-jour held high and proud? Or, at least it was.

I mean, I think Dvorak played a role in managing peoples expectations. Its
interesting that for some its high, and others low in terms of journalistic
decrepitude. 36 years is a long time to be wrong about it.

------
jack9
If you're an employee (no equity), be assured your employers don't care about
you when the money starts to dry up. If you're overpriced for the revenue you
bring in, you're gone. This is stuff everyone learned in the 90s bubble. Now
the paper mags are falling over and he's acting surprised. SMH

~~~
warriormonk5
Don't think that some paper equity gives your employer more loyalty to you

~~~
jsjohnst
I agree, when the startup piggy bank runs out, the paper equity doesn’t mean
much, speaking from personal experience.

------
wnevets
I stopped following him after he turned his podcast with curry into infowars
lite.

------
forgotmypw
My guess is they couldn't afford him anymore. As a 36-year-old star veteran,
his compensation was probably a sizable chunk of production costs. Meanwhile,
the magazine business is still hurting.

~~~
kylec
He’s not 36 years old, he’s 66 years old. He’s a 36-year veteran.

~~~
abraham_lincoln
I bet you're fun at parties.

~~~
dang
Personal attacks will get you banned here. More generally, please don't post
uncivil or unsubstantive comments.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

------
teovall
He's been infuriatingly wrong in every article of his I've ever read, but holy
shit! He was an icon. 36 years and they "fire" him via e-mail!? Despicable.

~~~
bredren
I read this guy back in the 90s. I think he put down mp3s. I think I emailed
him and told him he was on the wrong side of that.

~~~
Steko
Dvorak's greatest hits: "nobody wants a mouse", "Steve Jobs going the way of
pet rocks", "cable modems are a dead end", "the mac is dead", "ipod is a niche
product", "wikipedia is a dead end", "podcasting is a dead end", "linux is a
dead end", "time to short apple", "the iphone's a flop", "ipad's a flop",
"apple watch's a flop", etc.

~~~
acomjean
When I used to listen to the TWIT podcast (its been years..), I liked Dvorak's
cynical perspective vs the love everything new and tech of the other hosts. He
was cranky. I give him bonus points for remembering lotus's Jazz software in
the podcast (and calling it out for its problems when it came out).

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Jazz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Jazz)

~~~
buzzert
“I get no spam!”

------
sodosopa
What a dick move. Oh well, will the last subscriber of PC Mag turn out the
lights?

~~~
busterarm
Subscribers? It's all clickbait-driven traffic to squeeze out fractions of
cents worth of ad revenue nowadays.

------
nasalgoat
Wait, PC Magazine is still a thing?

~~~
swingline-747
Homebrew/home-assembly computing _nostalgic sigh_

All those trips up and down the Valley, like was a spread out Guangzhou JDR
Microdevices, NCA Peripherals, WierdStuff, Central Computers, MicroCenter,
Halted, Egghead, mom&pop shareware and even the "evil" Fry's and CompUSA.

IIRC I spend somewhere on the order of $5k on basically a homebuilt
workstation... Adaptec U2W, IBM Ultrastar whopping 9 GB drive, Plextor CD
burner, PC Power & Coolng PSU, GUS and a Courier modem. IIRC i got tired of
hearing the 7000 RPM fan droning like a 1U server and made a fanless water-
cooling setup with an RV heater core and CPU cooling block. Oh and UPSes since
1986.. south San Jose had frequent power outages.

IIRc we had back issues of PC Magazines for at least the previous year. I had
C++ PJ and DDJ.

~~~
Gibbon1
> Central Computers

Is still kicking. I think their business model is you a pay a small premium
for retail service and stuff that works reliably.

------
adamrezich
Sad to see all these comments focusing on what Dvorak "got wrong" instead of
his better columns, including recent ones:
[https://www.pcmag.com/dvorak](https://www.pcmag.com/dvorak)

------
testtestla
I would only read that magazine due to him so stupid move.

------
oaf357
I didn't realize PC Mag was still around.

~~~
fliesblackflags
I felt the same when Yahoo was breached.

------
medortch
Those of you who are Dvorak fans (as am I) should find, read, and support the
No Agenda podcast and email newsletter he's been doing with Adam Curry for
about 10 years now. In the latest newsletter, John argues that he was fired
for writing negative things about 5G networks -- and offers evidence that
PCMag routed links away from his critical columns to more positive pieces.

I got to work with John a bit over the years. He is many things, but I have
never known him to lie, or get his facts wrong when reporting. If what he says
about PCMag unlinking from his columns about 5G is true, it's even more rude
and insidious than the way he was fired.

John argues that it's more evidence that advertising drives much if not all
supposed "journalism" these days. I hope he's wrong, but fear he's more right
than most of us know or suspect most of the time...

------
sleepychu
[https://mobile.twitter.com/W6VA/status/1043181935667761153](https://mobile.twitter.com/W6VA/status/1043181935667761153)

Interesting exchange in the comments…

~~~
jccalhoun
Ugh. That reaffirms my dislike of Dvorak

------
Simulacra
That’s a real shame, he was the only reason I read PC magazine. We canceled
our subscription years ago, but I’d still go to Kramers and pick up a copy to
read the columns. Aging out of the tech industry is a tremendous problem, but
I don’t see there’s much we can do about it.

------
RickJWagner
Wow, that is a pitiful way to let a long-term employee go.

~~~
sumedh
The email says outside columns, he probably was a contractor.

~~~
gnulinux
Does this matter on a personal level? He's been writing for PC Mag for more
than 3 decades.

~~~
kheloker
This is such a shallow comment. Regardless of how long he's written articles
sponsored by PC magazine, you don't know the details of his contract or the
relationship he had with that sponsorship. Why bother creating a comment if
you add no content?

------
temikus
His column was the only reason I still remembered PCMag exists, that’s such a
dumb move.

------
QuinnyPig
I remember reading him decades ago. That’s beyond ignomious.

~~~
facorreia
I remember him explaining why Microsoft wouldn't be able to ship Windows 2000.

------
vernie
He had a good run and was getting paid for about a decade longer than he
should have.

------
HankB99
I wonder what happened to the linked tweet.

------
orsenthil
Is he related to some keyboard keymap?

~~~
orsenthil
No, that's August Dvorak -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Dvorak](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Dvorak)

~~~
glandium
They are, however, related:

"nephew of sociologist and creator of the Dvorak keyboard, August Dvorak"

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Dvorak](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Dvorak)

------
doctorwho
I thought PC-Mag and Dvorak were both already dead. How long has it been since
either one was actually relevant?

------
int_19h
Wait, Greenwald is now considered faux pas?

~~~
busterarm
He spent a couple of years blasting Hillary for being a warhawk, for how her
campaign was run and questioning the obsession with Russia.

[https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/09/03/glenn-
greenwal...](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/09/03/glenn-greenwald-
the-bane-of-their-resistance)

Apparently questioning the party status quo is the worst thing that you can
do.

"Greenwald’s political writing, which focusses on dramas of strength and
weakness, and on the corruptions of empires. Greenwald writes aggressively
about perceived aggression. His instinct is to identify, in any conflict, the
side that is claiming authority or incumbency, and then to throw his weight
against that claim, in favor of the unauthorized or the unlicensed—the
intruder. Invariably, the body with authority is malign and corrupt; any
criticisms of the intruder are vilifications or “smears.” He rarely weighs
counter-arguments in public, and his policy goals are more often implied than
spoken."

~~~
repolfx
I've been reading Greenwald for years and don't recognise that description at
all. But it comes from the New Yorker so this is perhaps not a surprise.

It's worth being extremely careful paying any attention to American media on
the topic of Glenn Greenwald. He is essentially the only journalist in the
world who routinely and strongly criticises other journalists and points out
their lying and manipulations. In recent times he's written a series of
articles showing how frequently US media's stories related to Russia collapse,
are retracted or turn out to be fraudulent.

He also got the scoop of the decade when Snowden went directly to him and
Poitras, news non-entities, because he simply didn't trust other journalists
at all.

I suspect by now most Washington/New York based journalists hate his guts.

~~~
paulmd
> I suspect by now most Washington/New York based journalists hate his guts.

Not so - he is a regular guest on Fox News.

He's become very partisan over the years, and you can guess the slant based on
the media where he chooses to appear.

I wouldn't say he is so much pro-Republican as anti-Democrat but it's getting
really hard to say. Pro-Russian and pro-Republican politics have gotten all
mixed up together since 2016.

I wouldn't say he is outwardly pro-trump, but he certainly doesn't seem to
criticize him to anywhere near the extent he lavishes on the Democrats. Nor
does he seem to be particularly concerned with criticizing American foreign
policy now that Republicans are in the drivers' seat, which was his fig-leaf
back in the early teens.

And in fact, he spends most of his time justifying the exact same types of
behavior from the Russians. So much for "questioning the politics of the
status quo and the corruption of empires".

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

~~~
busterarm
> If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

So the anti-war, anti-domestic spying, gay progressive duck is a conservative
Trump-lover?

What ducks are you looking at?

~~~
paulmd
Oh, well, if he's gay then it's cool. /s

Poltics makes for strange bedfellows. The enemy of my enemy can easily become
my friend. There is a certain segment of the left that seamlessly transitioned
from criticizing Democrats and American foreign policy into cheering Russian
propagandizing and backing Russian foreign policy goals ("as a counterweight
to American power" or similar). Greenwald is one of them.

If his critical of the power of empire, now would be a good time to start
criticizing the other side too. Democrats haven't held power for almost 2
years now and spending all his breath criticizing them isn't really helpful.
It _is_ , however, revealing about his agenda.

Again, I don't think he was always like this. He used to be doing legitimate
journalism, deep dives into American abuses of power that nobody else was
doing. It was good work, regardless of whether the expose happened under a
Democratic administration.

That journalism is still happening, while Greenwald is off doing Fox News
segments on how bad Democrats are. He's just not involved in it.

His decline from investigative journalist into partisan shill is very, very
blatant. And I do feel from him, there is no question the media gave him a
very rough go after Showden. But it doesn't excuse his "activism" since 2016.
One good expose doesn't beatify everything you do for the rest of your life.

I think it's probably mostly him burying his head in the sand about the
consequences of his activism. I don't think he consciously wants to trade
American empire for Russian empire, he just can't get past the whole "enemy of
my enemy is my friend" thing, or viewing Russia as a counterbalance to
American power, however you want to put it.

I hope he gets back on the horse, but right now he's definitely kinda broke-
brained. C'mon, the guy spends his time on his farm caring for the 40 dogs
he's rescued, nobody does that who's not at least a little broke-brained. I
wish him a speedy recovery (dogs help with that!), but right now you really
shouldn't be taking him overly seriously.

~~~
int_19h
Conversely, someone who agrees with my enemy on something is not automatically
my enemy as well. My enemies aren't always wrong, after all.

------
chris_wot
Isn’t this the guy who was upset by the idle process and rubbished the mouse?

------
busterarm
It's worth noting that JCD had posted some tweets the day before that were
critical of postmeritocracy.org and some comment by Al Gore about Trump.

Looks like a de-platforming may have happened.

~~~
lukev
Yeah, not really how that works.

~~~
busterarm
Please explain. Having a strong political opinion as an editor and firing your
most popular author who has the contrary opinion sounds exactly like what that
is.

That's just how it appears anyway.

~~~
Operyl
The email states they’re winding down more than just him. Not everything is a
conspiracy, PC Mag could just be cost cutting or downsizing due to a reduced
readership.

~~~
busterarm
The timing looks really bad. I'm reserving judgement to see confirmation from
their other columnists (whom I listed in a separate reply). His tweet also
claims it to be a false pretense -- why take one person's word over the other?

~~~
samastur
Because his whole tweet stream is like that. There will be no perfect timing
where you will not be able to find something political adjacent to "explain"
firing.

Still, firing over email is still sucky.

------
mindcrash
This absolutely has nothing to do with John's involvement with the No Agenda
podcast and the talking points of this particular podcast.

Nope.

Just budget issues which suddenly pop up after 36 years without any problems.

Sure...

Do the people involved really think John and his fanbase are THAT stupid?

