
Google launches Uber rival RideWith - oldskewlcool
http://americans.org/2015/07/06/google-launches-uber-rival-ridewith/
======
abluecloud
> Drivers will only be able to make two trips per day, and the software will
> ensure they only travel from their home neighborhoods to their workplaces.

> There also won’t be a ton of money changing hands as a passenger will pay
> the driver only a nominal fare for the trip

I'd hardly call it a Uber rival

~~~
minthd
UBER plans to attack the "drive to work" segment of the transportation market,
and it's potentially a huge opportunity for UBER.This Google service, if
successful, might fill that role very well.

And the fact that it's cheaper is basically "disruption from below" \- a
proven strategy in many businesses. While this exact transport service model
generally failed , it did succeed in France(blabla car), and Google has unique
marketing advantages that might make it succeed elsewhere.

Also, the main competitive barrier for UBER is that many consumers have the
habit of ordering transportation through it's app. If Google gets that , the
rest is relatively easy.

~~~
freehunter
Just FYI, it's Uber, not UBER. It's not an acronym.

~~~
fennecfoxen
[https://www.uber.com/](https://www.uber.com/) take a look at that-there all-
caps branding. It's pretty prominent in the app, too. (At least for UBER as an
overall brand - uberX and the like are gladly lowercased.)

Though they do use lowercase in some minor text. Still easy enough to make the
mistake, though.

~~~
appletree
That's just the logo. Looking at their legal documents is just Uber
Technologies Inc.

[http://newsroom.uber.com/wp-
content/uploads/2015/04/FormRule...](http://newsroom.uber.com/wp-
content/uploads/2015/04/FormRules.pdf)

------
gregoire
The title is misleading. RideWith isn't a direct Uber rival, as it's a feature
of the Waze app matching people doing similar trips on a regular basis. It is
therefore closer to ride sharing/carpooling than to private transportation.

~~~
RodericDay
So it's ride-sharing instead of a cab company?

~~~
eli
A lot closer to carpooling, since the driver is trying to get to roughly the
same destination as well.

------
ismail
Note: We have built a marketplace to connect drivers and passengers, so we
understand some of the challenges in scaling a business like this.

Like all marketplaces, you are faced with the chicken and egg problem. The
market place is supply constrained. There is demand for rides but not enough
matching supply. People with cars much prefer to travel alone due the
inconvenience of picking up others.

So, in order to get the drivers you need to give them a VERY convenient
option. Someone that is along their route, that would not add more than 5-10
mins of extra commute time, this is also dependent on how long the total
commute is. You also need to reach these drivers, without them searching for a
solution. Which is insanely expensive since the cheap acquisition strategies
do not work.

The best way to solve this IMHO is seeding the market with drivers (supply
side). Once you have the scale to guarantee a ride in a specific area you open
up ride-sharing.

* Uber is doing this by incentivizing drivers who want to make a profit.

* Google is uniquely positioned to do this as well, since they have the treasure trove of Wayze data

~~~
jellicle
Google knows where every Android user and most of everyone else lives and
works.

Frankly it would be trivial to ask Android users a question: "Are you
interested in carpooling? [Y/N]" and then prompt them when the guy three doors
down also answers yes.

~~~
ikeboy
We both know they'd be (rightly) yelled at by all of us if they did that.

Waze, fine. By using the app, you agree they might monetize it, or whatever.
But pushing ads to stock android is a huge no-no.

~~~
mjmahone17
Eh, but it would work inside Google Maps/Waze. Some people I know use Google
Maps or Waze every day, despite knowing what the best way to get to work is.
This means Google likely already has the "driver" supply, and just needs to
find a good way to provide those drivers with appropriate passengers.

So when someone first opens Waze/GM, you could put up a notification: "Dakota
Doe <picture, rating> is 2 minutes away and is also trying to go to X. Would
you like to carpool them?" People who say yes get pushed it more and more
often, people who say no get a screen the next time they open the app
expounding on the benefits of carpooling.

------
chockablock
This article in Haaretz has a lot more information, including pricing and
details about how rides are set up in advance, typically the night before.

"Google's Waze to launch worldwide carpooling pilot in Israel"

[http://www.haaretz.com/business/1.664577](http://www.haaretz.com/business/1.664577)

------
mangeletti
Sometimes when I read about Google dipping their hands into totally new things
(another example is Google +) I think, "those greedy ...", etc., but then
sometimes I read it and think, "perhaps Google is simply trying to prevent
monopolies in tech fields where competition is sparse.".

If the latter possibility is sometimes the true motive, even if it is done out
of self interest, the result tends to be good for all of us (except for the
monopolists themselves), because Google doesn't tend to be able to maintain a
monopoly in any techs other than search and advertising.

One example of the benefits of this kind of competition is the advent of
larger iPhones. If not for Google's Android and subsequent proliferation of
large-sized phones that evolved out of customer demand, Apple might have
ignored (or not been nearly as aware of) the demand for a larger iPhone.

------
dpflan
Forgive if I am misunderstanding, but Google Ventures invested in Uber, not
Google itself. Wouldn't this statement from the article be half incorrect:
"This puts Google squarely in competition with Uber, which is both an
investment and customer of its Google Maps product."

1\. [https://www.gv.com/about](https://www.gv.com/about) 2\.
[https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/uber/funding-
rounds](https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/uber/funding-rounds)

~~~
tdaltonc
You are, of course, correct, but is that a distinction that matters?

~~~
chrisfosterelli
I think it definitely does. Google Ventures has expressed in the past that
their investments are not tied to any business plans of Google and function
entirely separately.

~~~
outside1234
If you believe that I have a bridge you can invest in!

They clearly invested in Uber because Google wanted to buy them and clearly
Uber has said no. So plan B.

------
wheaties
Is it me or is Google doing the Microsoft "Me too!" with all these things
they're trying and then closing down a few months later?

~~~
crazychrome
Unlike Microsoft, who had the will and executive ability to expand to new
territories and destroy competitors, Google has a remarkable record of half-
baked works and giving up. it's a joke.

~~~
stoshe
There is a very serious benefit to recognizing a losing hand and folding
before you're in too deep. You see a weakness in Google's execution, and I'd
agree in some places, but there is some wisdom in closing up failed
experiments rather than doubling down as Microsoft has done with several of
their investments in the past.

~~~
crazychrome
I have zero problem with the fail-fast, fail-earlier strategy and attitude.
ultimately it's business. there is no point to continue if it's obviously not
going to work. there is a catch though: do fail because of innovation (crazy,
big ideas). I'd argue all these experiments, except gmail/map/wave, have 0
substance. most of them are crappy implemented, poor planed cat projects.

------
dfar1
I had no idea Waze was acquired by google. I wish they would just combine the
best of waze with the best of google maps into one app that just works.

~~~
zenonu
Most "Wazers" actually do not want the Waze brand or its app to be diluted.

~~~
freehunter
Most people don't want anything they like to be diluted or changed. People on
HN don't want people from Reddit. People from Reddit don't want people from
Facebook. People from Facebook don't want their parents. People in a gated
community don't want poor people moving into their neighborhood. People in the
city don't want rich folks moving in and gentrifying their block.

People, in general, are xenophobic and like their culture to stay small and
untainted. Eternal September happens everywhere. It doesn't mean that Google
has to keep two separate mapping applications running. Waze didn't stop to
think about their community when they sold the application to Google.

~~~
paulhauggis
"People, in general, are xenophobic and like their culture to stay small and
untainted."

The problem is that when anybody and everyone comes into the community and you
don't have some sort of filter, it turns to shit.

~~~
oldmanjay
well it certainly changes. presupposing that change to be "shit" is of course
bigotry.

------
tdaltonc
The premise behind uber's valuation is that they could own the marketplace for
transportation. But what if the market is not monopolizable? If users (drivers
and riders) can costlessly participate in multiple transportation markets,
then it's impossible to form a monopoly. Users will just frictionlessly move
to the cheapest market. I operate in multiple of these markets (check all of
the apps before committing to a ride) and I know that many drivers do too
(lyft on this phone, uber on that phone, etc). So shouldn't this monopoly
unravel to the point that all of the transportation markets aren't able to
capture any value from the transaction?

~~~
Zigurd
Uber's valuation is also based on the perception that Uber can outgun the
competition technologically and in global expansion. Uber might face more or
less frictionless competition from regional rivals, like Lyft, but will have
some durable advantages.

Google is a different kind of competitor.

------
hackuser
It heard that the branding team ruled out using "Google Hitchhiker".

What's the difference? Google's/Uber's/Lyft's imprimatur that your passenger
is trustworthy? More surety of payment? If I want to take the risk, why won't
cities let me give hitchhiker's rides for cash (or even credit card payments)?

~~~
mjmahone17
In the US, especially among people of politically-influential age, hitchhiking
has a fairly negative connotation. In most US states, hitchhiking is at least
restricted, and sometimes entirely illegal. There was a long period in the
80's where hitchhikers were portrayed as criminal, untrustworthy and those who
would pick them up were likely to want to hurt them.

Carpooling, on the other hand, is highly encouraged, even to the point where
local governments create special infrastructure to encourage people to do it.
Are hitchhiking and carpooling two sides of the same coin? Yeah, probably.
Should we be more encouraging of hitchhikers? Again, I think so. But if you
have a positive message "Look at all the cars we're taking off the road! We're
helping people meet others in similar situations, who all want to commute
together!" it sets you up for a very different interaction with the public and
with governments than "Hey, wouldn't it be great if we could get people to
hitchhike more?"

------
pasbesoin
Fix what you have, Google.

Every time you launch into something else, like this, I become a bit more
convinced that commentators are right and you are slowly turning into
Microsoft.

I get the sense that, internally, things are still significantly different
than they are or ever were at Microsoft. But I become increasingly concerned
about some encroaching "inevitable".

De-fuck Hangouts and your rats nest of "instant" products/services. Beat
Verizon over the head until they actually update the Moto X that, at the time
of purchase, _you_ sold me. Stop launching the "next great thing" only to kill
it 18 months later, over and over.

And as some have said, um, search? Give at least optional specific control
back to the power users. And someone the other day raised the pertinent
question of why it's not well-integrated into Hangouts.

I suppose RideWith is supposed to eventually overlap with your autonomous
cars, or something. But I don't give a crap about the new, until the old and
erstwhile reliable -- and so critical to so many -- starts working better,
again.

Thanks.

P.S. Ok, that last paragraph is partially rhetoric. But, damnit, if I'm going
to invest in your products -- in both dollars and time and effort -- I want
some consistency, and an upward trend in features and usability. (See also Tim
O'Reilly's recent comments about the -- cough -- "improved" interface in
Contacts. (Pop-ups and clipped text -- really?))

------
taigeair
My prediction number 5 :)

5\. New functionality - e.g. If you're going somewhere while using Google Maps
for navigation and turn on "Carpool" mode, people can see your path and
message you for a pick up. They pay you for partial journey via the app.

[http://www.quora.com/How-will-Google-monetize-Google-
Maps](http://www.quora.com/How-will-Google-monetize-Google-Maps)

~~~
seanp2k2
I still want the ability to add a destination en route to another destination,
e.g. "Ooh, I need to find [cheap] gas on the way to my next errand". It'd also
be nice to be able to plan out e.g. "I need to go 4 places, figure out when
they all close and what the optimal route is between them all". These are
currently very manual and pretty tedious.

~~~
foobarian
I wish one of these traffic apps had "race mode." The traffic data is mostly
worthless because it's not real-time, and even when it does give a good route
it's hard to confirm it after arrival. Instead it would be cool to compare my
route to an alternate traversed by another app user who left the origin around
the same time.

------
salimmadjd
When google announced Uber integration in their maps, I called it a trojan
horse [1] Basically making maps the interface for ride sharing and then adding
their own service on top.

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7705706](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7705706)

~~~
eli
I'd assumed that integration was more about learning Uber's fleet size at
different times, how long people are willing to wait for a car, what locations
they request from, etc.

~~~
minthd
I'm sure UBER injects noise into their map requests, and since many drivers
use an iPhone , It's hard for Google to filter that noise.

------
mark_l_watson
That seems like a very good idea, not as a huge business, but to save energy,
wear and tear of cars, etc.

~~~
abalos
I think the barrier to this sort of behavior being more common in the masses
is that it's difficult to make these sort of connections.

If Google is basically able to say hey - your neighbor down the block drives
to within a 5 minute walk of your office, then this could be a really useful
tool for this sort of networking.

~~~
pluma
This seems like a clever way to nudge users in the general direction of self-
driving cars as a service for local public transport.

------
MarcScott
Does this mean we can look forward to fleets of self-driving cars roaming the
streets and waiting for someone to hail them with Google's app?

Or maybe your personal self-driving car will inform you that there are people
travelling your route that you can share fuel costs with.

~~~
stoshe
Both, or at least I hope so.

The benefits of driver-less vehicles in terms of accidents and fatalities
aside, consider for a moment just how under utilized the current
transportation capacity is in this country. On average, even at peak drive
times, what percentage of vehicles are actually being used? Just look down
your street or at any parking lot you pass on your way into the office.

In order to get the convenience of not having to call a taxi which could then
require a long wait every time we need to go somewhere, we take out loans for
tens of thousands of dollars to own a vehicle that is all ours. We then pay to
maintain the multi-ton machine, build custom paths and storage buildings on
our homes just to store them, and everywhere we go large swatches of land are
set aside just to give us temporary storage for our vehicles since we can't
reasonably visit any location without this machine in tow.

In a reality where we must own a vehicle in order to move around quickly and
easily, all of these things make perfect sense and are just a part of our
lives so much so that we don't even think about them most of the time. This
one "little" change can completely transform it all.

------
hackuser
One big advantage of Google's solution over Uber's is the relative climate
change impact of your transportation choice. In reverse order of benefit,
based on my amatuer analysis:

* For a baseline, let's use one party (generally a person or a couple) with a personal car. Traveling someplace creates P marginal greenhouse gasses (GHG), plus there is the fixed cost of manufacturing the car (but I have no idea how much that is).

* Uber and taxis net GHG emissions should be worst and greater than P: Your trip uses P but added to that is the GHG generated when the taxi/Uber car has no passenger and is 'cruising'. Also, I expect taxis/Uber cars are larger on average than personal cars, and thus less fuel efficient, because they need to fit several adults comfortably in the back. If you give up a personal car for Uber/taxis, then you get the manufacturing benefit.

* Car share services (e.g., ZipCar) should net less than P emissions, if you give up a personal car when you join. The car is parked when nobody is driving it, so the marginal cost of one trip is P. But it also eliminates the emissions created from manufacturing the car, whatever that is. EDIT: As hayksaakian points out below, this is the same as buying a used car.

* Google's RideWidth's net GHG emissions should be much less than P: For every added passenger, one less car is on the road emitting P.

* Public transit probably is second best. The marginal GHG emissions of the bus/train carrying your fat a-- on its normal route probably don't amount to much. On the other hand, it probably depends on the average passenger load of the vehicle -- certainly a train/bus with only you on it costs much more per passenger than P, but those fixed costs are spread over many more passengers than Uber/taxis.

* Best of all, of course, are biking or walking. Though has anyone calculated the GHG emissions of the human energy cycle, from growing the cattle feed to transport to refrigeration to cooking to human methane emissions?

Also not calculated are the effect your use of one service or another has on
demand, driving up the number of Uber/taxi/busses, etc. on the road.

~~~
hayksaakian
the ZipCar difference is the same as buying a used car that's already been
manufactured and counted towards another person's P value

------
svs
Carpooling has fundamental challenges that are perhaps impossible to overcome.

For one, dynamic routing for two or more people is always going to hurt the
user experience. Imagine you're running late and your car re-routes to pick up
another passenger - ugh!

Shared transportation for anything more than a neighbourhood trip should be
professionally driven and to a schedule. That schedule can be dynamic as
anything but must be solid and offer guarantees BEFORE the trip starts as to
start point, route, etc.

Basically a very smart and discoverable bus.

~~~
tmalsburg2
In Germany, carpooling has been a mainstream thing since the mid-90ies or
perhaps even earlier. The majority of trips are long-distance, i.e across-
country. You are right that carpooling has has some shortcomings but it's so
ridiculously cheap that many people happily accept those shortcomings. I used
it many times when I was a student and 90% of the trips went as planned.

------
linux_devil
Correct me , I don't find it as a Uber rival . I think they are trying to
promote car pool which is much needed here in India , only problem I see is
security of passsengers

------
electric_sheep
Doesn't sound like a play against Uber -- seems more like a companion concept
to self-driving cars, which would naturally be good candidates for commuter
ride-sharing.

------
Gossilla
Interesting how they limit the drivers.

I assume this is from the driver-as-employee lawsuits Uber is facing and
Google wants to be safe.

------
frederickf
This sounds more like Lyft's "Line" service which connects driver and
passengers going the same way on regular trips. I'm not familiar with Uber's
offerings though so maybe they have a similar service?

~~~
trevyn
Lyft Line and UberPool match 2 passengers going roughly in the same direction,
and put them in the same ride-for-hire vehicle. The driver's preferences have
no bearing. :)

------
EGreg
Is it just me or does that page have an annoying ad network which
AUTOMATICALLY redirects your mobile browser to the app store? I've seen a
proliferation of these now.

------
samstave
This isn't Google creating am uber rival, it is quelling competition for the
rideshare services that exist for co-commuting.

------
balls187
This is a first step into google's next big play:

Self Driving Cars/Taxis/Carpools that are subsidized by Google's ad business.

------
shaunrussell
Who takes an Uber to work?

~~~
chockablock
UberPool in SF is currently $7 each way within city limits and my wife takes
it to/from work frequently.

Compared to us buying a second car, this is incredibly cost-effective, and
would be worth it at 3x the price. (Monthly cost of ownership of a used car in
SF would be ~$1000/mo including parking spaces at work and home).

The only other cost-competitive option is MUNI, which is $2.25 each way (or
less if you commit to a monthly pass, and/or pay using before-tax income). She
does use MUNI occasionally, but there are no direct routes serving her
commute, and it is often unreliable at commute times.

Ridesharing for commuters is not always some absurd luxury--it can be an
economically sensible luxury :)

------
lovemenot
Could be just a very limited service for a narrow use case. Google may want to
better know which techie in Israel goes where. Say, for the purposes of
optimising hiring, investment, product development, security ...

------
emergentcypher
Even if this isn't quite an uber rival, this is ultimately Uber's problem. All
they are is an app with some marketing, and anyone with a bit of money can
easily come up with a competing app.

~~~
dylanjermiah
>All they are is an app with some marketing, and anyone with a bit of money
can easily come up with a competing app.

I think I'll let your first statement stand, but in regards to the second.
Uber has raised $5.9bn dollars, is doing ~2m rides per day, is in 300+ cities
-- sure you can create a competing app, but the chances of meaningfulness are
small if non existent.

~~~
kevin_thibedeau
The difference is that carpooling is legal. What Uber and Lyft are doing is
not in most markets.

~~~
dylanjermiah
What relevance does this have to the parent, or my, comment?

~~~
kevin_thibedeau
The relevance is that a $5.9b valuation is dubious when it's based on an
illegal enterprise. That "value" can disappear in an instant when
municipalities start cracking down.

------
wodenokoto
Do you really think that Google snoops into paying customers map data?

Why in the world would uber just give it away? No, no, why would they pay to
give it away?

Even as a 5% investor, do they have such intimate data access?

~~~
justincormack
It is interesting, but they did just buy Microsoft's map division
[http://www.theverge.com/2015/6/29/8863687/uber-acquires-
mapp...](http://www.theverge.com/2015/6/29/8863687/uber-acquires-mapping-data-
tech-and-talent-from-microsoft-bing)

------
aarongray
Self-driving taxi's would be awesome.

------
CodeSheikh
Uber should have filed for IPO.

------
frozenport
Dumb question: how is this Google's core business?

~~~
unprepare
If sharing a ride with someone frees up my attention to use my smartphone
instead of watching the road, google can make more money advertising to me
during that time.

~~~
frozenport
Yeah, and if Google covered by medical bills I might live a few more years :-)

~~~
unprepare
[http://www.calicolabs.com/](http://www.calicolabs.com/)

I think they agree.

------
amelius
Speaking of unfair competition.

~~~
dylanjermiah
How so?

~~~
amelius
Google: Company that is using its power established in one market to gain
control of another market.

Uber: Entering a market with disregard of rules established for that market.

~~~
dylanjermiah
Interesting, how would you define 'unfair competition' and 'fair competition'?
In a general sense.

~~~
minthd
amelius's answer is what the law sees as "unfair competition", altough often
it's hard to sue i think(IANAL).

------
LordKano
Who's going to trust this? Google is so quick to terminate technologies that
I'm hesitant to try anything new that they bring to market.

~~~
shostack
May I ask why you need to trust this from that standpoint? With other Google
services I agree with the concern. In this case, if they discontinued, you
revert to your old way of commuting. I don't imagine anyone doing anything
stupid like selling their car over this.

It's like Shopping Express for me. Was AMAZING while it was free and I used it
every week. Now I don't because the fee is in place. Since Amazon pantry is
not a good fit for my needs either, I just do things like in ancient times and
pick things up at the grocery store while I'm out running errands and spend a
few more minutes.

~~~
LordKano
I didn't flesh out my thought process but I'm thinking that there has to be
some real reason to go with this over Uber or Lyft.

Obviously, no one should restructure their life around the availability of
this kind of service. I'm just saying that this feels like bandwagoning to me.
I can't be the only one thinking that this isn't going to last long. Uber and
Lyft will be in that business until they close up shop or are regulated out of
a market.

If you're going to try a non-traditional taxi-type service, why go with Google
over one of the existing players?

~~~
shostack
Hard to say at this point given that this hasn't launched yet. I'll need to
see what it looks like when it does its pilot in Israel.

Google's long-term play has a decent chance of involving self-driving cars and
monetizing via advertising and data with some fee from the ride. Nothing says
"open up your wallets" to large brick and mortar advertisers like "we
_literally_ drove the customer to your doorstep."

Getting users hooked and getting this tested via commute data is a great
approach before branching out to something else. It also lets users browse the
web, and Google likely has clear visibility into the search behavior of users
searching while in their rides to determine the incremental ad revenue this
enabled.

Google doesn't need to offer this for free to provide a great experience at a
lower price than any current competitors like Uber or Lyft. They have
substantial revenue from other areas to fuel this and so can price their
competition out of the market. Other companies do the same thing to squeeze
into a dominant position in a market they want to enter.

