

Airbnb Horror Story Points to Need for Precautions - faisalkhalid80
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/15/your-money/airbnb-horror-story-points-to-need-for-precautions.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=photo-spot-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

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wmt
A man is in Spain and calls his mother in US for help, and mother then calls
an US company for help, who refuse to hand out client information for random
people who call and claim that the client is doing a crime?

Instructing to call the police was definitely the best possible course of
action, and the mistake they made was to hand out a local number for the
police of Madrid instead of instructing the mother to instruct his son to call
the emergency number of the country he's in, 112 in Europe. Had AirBnB sent
someone visit the place, he would arrive there much later than the police
could, and would still be unable to do anything but to calm the emergency
number that he can't get in and a customer's mother in the US claims there's a
crime going on.

~~~
MattBearman
I agreed with you up until "Instructing to call the police was definitely the
best possible course of action". I really think AirBnB should have called the
police, instead of shifting that responsibility. The article even says that
they'll be making sure all staff know to contact the police directly in future
cases like this.

~~~
DanBC
The person in the apartment is absolutely the best person to call the police.

When he dials the emergency number he gets put through to the local handlers
who will send a car quickly.

Calling his mother, who then calls AirBnB, who then call some other AirBnB
office, who then call the police introduces a bunch of delay and missed
information.

We don't want people to think that calling a private company is the right
thing to do here, where a crime is being committed.

~~~
foldr
It would certainly have been better if the guy in the apartment had called the
police, but airbnb should have called them anyway.

~~~
DanBC
AirBnB certainly need better protocols for this kind of thing.

It's only hinted at inthe article, but a few people die by suicide in hotel
rooms. AirBnB staff need to know how to respond better.

------
staunch
My 60+ year old mother has a neighbor renting on Airbnb illegally.

The Airbnb guests have repeatedly scared her late at night by mistakenly
trying to open her door, yelling, partying, etc. She doesn't feel safe in her
own home anymore.

Airbnb support responded to her complaint but took no action.

It's wrong to even allow apartments or condos to be rented out, it hurts all
the neighbors, but Airbnb chooses to hurt people in order to make more money.

~~~
ZeroMinx
Is that really Airbnb's fault?

Airbnb is the service provider in this case, but there are other companies
with a similar service, or the neighbour could let it out personally to other
people.

Assuming the neighbour is subletting illegally as you state, surely that's
where the problem lies.

~~~
XJOKOLAT
It's not airbnb's fault but if found to be true why wouldn't airbnb simply de-
list them?

It's like being a CEO and finding out that one of your employees or
contractors is engaging in illegal activity. They get fired. Simple.

~~~
ZeroMinx
Sure, if Airbnb have been given proof that the subletting is illegal, they
should remove the listing.

But my point is that doesn't really solve the problem. What should be sorted
is the fact that this person sublets the flat illegally.

------
nailer
On the other side of the wall I'm typing this is an AirBnB.

39/40 people are fine. Sometimes strangers try and get into my house because
they're confused, but that's about it.

A few weeks back hundreds of drunk teenagers threw a rooftop party (and also a
hallway party outside my apartment). AirBnB has no official support mechanism
for neighbours, and the carpet still has all the beer stains I asked AirBnB to
clean.

~~~
the_ancient
>the carpet still has all the beer stains I asked AirBnB to clean.

Why do you believe AirBnB has the responsibility to clean the carpet?

~~~
nailer
Why don't you?

~~~
the_ancient
Because that would create 3rd party liability, it would be no different than
holding Ford responsible for a Drunk Driver, or Smith & Wesson Responsible for
a shooting.

I have a feeling though you support those things as well

~~~
nailer
No, but feel free to tell me what my opinions are.

------
flavor8
This is a terrible incident, and poor initial handling, but it sounds like a
reasonable policy change on the part of the company.

I'm actually suprised though that host safety/security hasn't been a bigger
issue. Last weekend my wife & I stayed at an apartment ("whole place") in a
large US city. The host, a girl in her early 20s, probably quite new to the
city, and who we didn't meet, left us her apartment keys (all of them): there
was no combination lock on the door, i.e. nothing preventing somebody from
duplicating the keys and having permanent access to the apartment. On top of
that, all of her stuff was in the apartment - clothes, paperwork, jewelry -
and as far as we could see (we didn't snoop beyond looking for an iron) she
didn't have a lockbox there.

Obviously she's naive, but she's not alone; I've heard several similar
stories. I'm not sure what I'd have airbnb do to improve the situation; at
minimum, though, requiring the use of combination door locks with guest-
specific combinations would seem like a good policy, although obviously they'd
lost a lot of hosts by doing so.

~~~
jonlucc
Airbnb could partner with a lock company to allow owners to buy the cheaply.
Then the access could be handled in the Airbnb app, and revoked after the
person leaves.

~~~
pilsetnieks
That would limit access to app-users. Plenty of people use Airbnb only on the
web.

------
ThePhysicist
I really feel for the boy's mother who must have gone through hell after her
son called her. I was once in a similar situation myself where a dear friend
of mine got in big trouble while traveling in Vietnam:

Since the country is a Malaria area my friend took prophylactic medication
(Malarone). As an (infrequent) side effect these drugs can cause
hallucinations and severe anxiety attacks, which unfortunately is what
happened to her. When the symptoms hit her she was alone (as the only Western
person) in a small train station in Ho-Chi-Minh city and became suddenly so
scared that she hid in a corner, hallucinating and unable to call out for
help. Lucky for her I called her up after she failed to send me a message as
we had agreed on a few days earlier and found out about the dangerous
situation. And while she was not able to speak clearly she was at least able
to communicate where she was to me. So, I immediately thought about how I
could get help to her and tried calling the local emergency numbers using
Skype, my mobile phone and my landline. As it turns out, those numbers are
usually not reachable from outside the country.

So what I did instead (and what I would do again in a similar situation) was
to call the emergency number of the local embassy / consulate in the country.
These always have staff answering the phone 24/7, but unfortunately even they
are not always willing to help you. It usually helps to first get the name of
the person who answered the phone and then explain to him/her that the person
in distress is a citizen of his/her country and that he/she is in acute
danger. Also, explain to them (in case they forgot) that it is their duty to
protect the life of the citizens of their country abroad and to do anything in
their power to get help to them as fast as possible. They will know better
than you which number to call or how to organize help (in case the emergency
response system is not very functional as was the case in Vietnam). Do not
waste time trying to call the local emergency numbers.

------
matwood
What a horrible story. Airbnb and Uber are both going to have to work through
some rough patches with how they handle situations like these. While
technically not responsible, they have an opportunity to make their services
safer than the alternatives.

Personally, I have used Airbnb to travel all over Europe with mostly great
experiences. A couple places have had things break that the host had to fix,
but nothing that ruined my trip. Many of the hosts have been over the top
awesome. I had great and unique experiences in both Hungary and Croatia
directly because of the host.

Right now Airbnb is fighting a scam on their site where listings are put up
with an email in the listing or you request information about the listing and
the host emails a link to a site that looks like Airbnb but is just a scam to
collect CC information. It would stink if this is marking the end of the VRBO
glory days.

------
oskarth
The plural of anecdote is not data. There are more than 100k stays every night
in an Airbnb. You could find a horror story for _any_ big company that does
something 100k times or more. This article says more about NYT and its so
called journalism than it does about Airbnb.

It's _obviously_ a horrible experience for the person involved. That doesn't
make the story relevant to Airbnb, just like the MH17 crash doesn't say
anything about Malaysia Airlines or flight travel in general.

EDIT: Accommodating nitpickers and straw men.

~~~
showsomeempathy
Holy a shit a man gets raped by a Trans-person, and Politically correct people
like you are blaming the victim. In any other cases, a simple call leads to
immediate police action.

Had the victim been a female we would have 100+ article stating that sharing
economy is just another iteration of patriarchy, and PG gravelling and
announcing startup batch for female exclusive sharing sites.

~~~
geon
I don't see the poster above blaming the victim.

~~~
roghummal
>EDIT: Accommodating nitpickers.

Maybe there's something we're missing?

showsomeempathy looks to have been created to post in this thread.

EDIT:

>EDIT: Accommodating nitpickers and straw men.

I think I made a straw man!

~~~
oskarth
> Maybe there's something we're missing?

This is the charitable interpretation of the, albeit somewhat delusional,
grandparent (showsomeempathy greenie). Since I support charitable
interpretations, I'll respond to it. I generally don't see the point in
responding to nitpickers and uncharitable readers, hence the previous edit.

While true that I could have removed something nasty from my original comment,
the truth is more mundane. Aside from the additional second paragraph, the
only thing I substantially changed was the sentence you quoted.

> I think I made a straw man!

No, you are the nitpicker :) Implicit in the 100k big scale sentence is that
(a) it's 100k or more (b) relative scale matters. I would consider having 100k
people / night for an accommodation service to be big scale. More generally,
it simply has no relevance (just like this whole subthread ;) for the point
being made, hence the nitpicker designation.

EDIT: Lesson: never, under any circumstances, engage with trolls.

~~~
roghummal
It was interesting watching you edit the shit out of this comment. Iteration
is great but, man, sometimes you should iterate alone.

And when you fuck up as badly as you did, own it. You'll do better next time.

EDIT:

Not so sure about "but, man, sometimes you should iterate alone." Others learn
from our failures.

EDIT:

Hurt feels? "A troll, ignore."

------
enknamel
Airbnb customer service really shat the bed on this one. There's really no
excuse for refusing to call the police when you are told a heinous crime is in
progress. Probability wise it was 1/800,000 for that evening but that single
anecdote is really painful to hear.

------
XJOKOLAT
Anecdote: host from hell.

We stayed in an airbnb in Amsterdam. Looked decent. However, we spent the
first evening coordinating getting the shower fixed as it was overflowing.
C'est la vie, win some lose some. Ok.

After that, when trying to sleep, the boiler made a very bad rattling noise,
so again had to call someone about it. Again, win some lose some.

After that first evening, we sent a legitimate refund claim to the owner
saying we can live with the (by then partially fixed) situation because we
didn't want to waste time looking for somewhere else. We requested a one day
refund as it had been spent fixing stuff. We then went to bed.

Midnight rolls around and my wife and I are fast asleep. My phone rings and
it's the airbnb host demanding that we vacate the property, and "not to worry,
I will help you get a room at the hotel over the road". Why? Because we had
the temerity to request a refund.

(Context: he later tried to explain his attitude with "we should have
contacted him directly because if a refund claim is put through, his property
is downvoted in the airbnb listings". I have no idea if that is true).

He jumps in his car and an hour later, we are arguing on the doorstep about
it, us in our PJ's wondering the hell is going on.

Airbnb handled the situation fairly well. However, if airbnb was my company,
or the host was an employee of mine, he would have been fired. That host is
still happily using airbnb.

Since that and a couple of other sketchy airbnb experiences I only use the
service now when the hosts/property come extremely or personally recommended.
I completely discount the online reviews.

I like the variety of experiences offered by airbnb. I don't like the
inevitable encounters (and extreme experiences) possible with asshole airbnb
hosts.

And there is nothing airbnb can do about it, short of striking dodgey hosts
off their listings, which they didn't do in this case so I wonder how many
other situations like that there have been where nothing was done.

------
anna17
I am a host for Airbnb, I did had a problem with one guest and Airbnb beside
taking report they don't do anything else. I was very frustrate, they kept
saying someone from Safety will call, they never did. In the Jacob situation I
find so "Stupid" the fact that Airbnb hasn't done anything. All these Safety
Promises that they have I don't think are real.At the same time, Jacob could
text the address but I understand in a moment of panic. Are these people
verified ??? Really?? How can a man had a woman name?? That's my question to
Airbnb..

------
nailer
This was inevitable. People will do things in their own homes they wouldn't
dare do in a hotel room as the hotel would call the police. The only real
surprise is that AirBnB investors don't see themselves as culpable.

I don't think this is the worst it will get either.

~~~
blfr
There are plenty of stories like this from hotels.

[https://www.google.com/search?q=sexual+assault+hotel&tbm=nws](https://www.google.com/search?q=sexual+assault+hotel&tbm=nws)

~~~
nailer
Yes, that doesn't contradict the point though.

------
mschuster91
What happened to the guy with the XXX Freak Fest?

~~~
user3141592653
he moved out, Airbnb paid part of the damages and overall expenses.

~~~
mschuster91
Yeah I know about that part, but last I know he was on the street because no
one would rent an apartment to him.

------
showsomeempathy
I get that Airbnb is the darling of this forum, and I even had good experience
with it. Yet the amount of victim blaming is unbelievable. Instead of a guy
being raped by trans "woman". Had it been a female victim, Airbnb would be
apologizing like crazy, instead we get this utterly dismissive reply. NYTime
has also abandoned any sense of equity by refusing to name the perpetrator
while splashing the identity of the victim while putting blame on him.

We allow flimsy standards in Campus Prosecution and hide the identity of the
victim. While in this case we are watching the victim being re-victimized.

Where is accountability?

Where is the zero star review that's supposed warn potential users?

This entire incident is truly sickening.

~~~
xerophyte12932
Now that you mention it, the whole thing does seem to lack a certain
appreciation for the gravity of the incident. A person got raped and the
company's reply is:

"Oh, we're sorry. Security is our number 1 priority and we'll call the police
ourselves next time."

And the debate here is "Well the victim should have contacted the police
themselves. Doesn't he even know which emergency number to call?"

While I sincerely I hope the conversation would have been more serious if the
victim was a girl, I am appalled at the current reaction.

------
user3141592653
paraphrasing but "Caveat emptor"

------
teamhappy
"Need for Precautions"

How about not staying in a stranger's house?

~~~
showsomeempathy
"How about not wearing revealing clothes"

"How about not walking in the wrong neighborhood"

"How about not looking anywhere but towards the ground"

~~~
aaron695
I find this response pathetic.

I can legally go to downtown Baghdad if I wished. I have every right to as
well.

But people shouldn't give me advice on how to minimise danger because that's
victim blaming those who have been that have been hurt or killed?

~~~
notahacker
As advice "Never accept the hospitality of strangers [even when bought and
paid for via a trusted third party that publishes reviews]" verges on tinfoil
hattery though.

I think downtown Baghdad is a few orders of magnitude more dangerous and I'd
_still_ consider "how about not going to downtown Baghdad" an unreasonably
snarky response to an article on victims of bombings.

~~~
teamhappy
I was commenting on the part of the headline that naively suggests that
there's an option other than accepting the risk that comes with staying at a
stranger's house or not accepting it.

Not sure how you got from there to rape victim blaming and bomb victims in
Irak.

------
mahouse
Use an illegal (or soon to be illegal at least in Spain) service, get in
trouble. I don't really understand what crosses the mind of someone who
decides to sleep in someone else's house.

I like the "victim blaming is wrong" narrative. Taking a stupid risk is OK?
Since when? Are we children?

