
How Uber Plans to Conquer the Suburbs - Dowwie
https://www.buzzfeed.com/priya/how-uber-plans-to-conquer-the-suburbs?utm_term=.kpWnzo6bxV#.klgdjWYDeL
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FT_intern
Is anyone else slightly apprehensive about Uber substituting as public
transport? What if their motive is to bankrupt public transport agencies and
then raise prices when people have no alternative?

~~~
hackuser
I agree. It's also a risk for people living on very limited budgets; what do
they do if Uber raises prices? How do they get to work? The grocery? The
doctor?

Private enterprise relies on business failure and distribution of resources to
those who can pay the most for them. Some things can't fail (police, fire,
transportation, water, medical, etc.) and are needed by everyone regardless of
income.

> What if their motive is to bankrupt public transport agencies and then raise
> prices when people have no alternative?

Uber prides itself, IME, on very aggressive business tactics, concerned only
for profit and not, for example, its own workers, local laws, etc. I would be
surprised if they did otherwise than what you say.

~~~
mhink
It sounds like the city described in the article (and others mentioned) is
subsidizing Uber fares for people in the city. So, if Uber displaces public
transport agencies, I suspect it'll end up being the city which gets stuck
with the bill.

That said, I don't think the situation is as dire as you're describing.
Getting around in smaller American cities is _already_ difficult for many
people- as you mentioned, those living on very limited budgets, but also the
elderly and other people that can't drive themselves around and must rely on
family and friends.

So, in the end, I think it's less a matter of "replacing public
transportation", and more a matter of "creating a realistic model for
publicly-funded transportation in suburban and semi-rural America".

This is not to say that I'm super chuffed with Uber being the one to do it.
But I can see a future where municipal governments become comfortable with the
idea, which would open the door to competition, just as we've seen in major
cities where there are plenty of alternatives to Uber.

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toomuchtodo
It's cable cars being torn out for cars all over again.

~~~
ghaff
No. It's cable cars that don't exist being torn out for cars all over again.
Suburban/exurban mass transit is pretty much non-existent other than commuter
rail (in many areas).

My adjacent city just spent something like 2 years and who knows how much
money putting in a new parking garage for one of the MBTA stations that have
been notorious for insufficient parking for pretty much forever. With no
parking at all during the construction. Assuming the numbers and logistics
worked out, something like this would have been very interesting.

~~~
toomuchtodo
To have your mass transit beholden to corporate interests is the problem.

I'd be much less concerned if governing bodies created a non-profit that built
and ran the technical infrastructure for ridesharing.

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aresant
TLDR as the facts in the article were hard for me to divine at first glance:

\- People ride the train in Summit NJ to work in NYC / elsewhere \- It's a
pain to park at the train station and wastes a lot of time in the AM \- It
costs $4 to park in the lot currently \- Uber will offer $2 each way rides to
100 residents within the city \- Summit will reimburse Uber for the difference
between the flat fares and the true cost of a ride, which drivers will receive
up front \- Summit NJ is about 6 square miles

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alphaoverlord
I see this as Ubers endgame- it doesn't have to beat lyft or other rideshare
options, it has to outlast insolvent public transportation options and fickle
taxpayers and be the biggest network such that they can get these government
contracts. We are seeing more and more of these local deals as it is a
superior option in quality and cost to public transportation except in certain
mass transport situations.

~~~
erispoe
Uber will never outlast urban public transit. Because bigger vehicles and
fixed routes are simply more efficient at transporting a lot of people in
dense environment.

It can easily replace inefficient minibus lines in the suburbs though, and
riding your own car to real public transit (in this case, the train). That's
potentially a significant market, but I doubt it's as big as the taxi market
they're trying to take over.

~~~
droopyEyelids
You're not thinking of 'externalization'

Externalization is the key to Uber disrupting mass transit. It doesn't matter
how much more efficient busses and trains are if Uber can continue to push the
costs of its operations onto the environment, taxpayers, and the less wealthy
who drive for the company.

(I know this article isn't about that directly, just wanted to chime in)

~~~
erispoe
It's about basic geometry, not cost. You simply cannot fill the streets of San
Francisco, Seattle or New York with all the people who would take the bus (not
even speaking about trains), with 4 people per car max (often 1 or 2), and not
expect streets to be clogged to death. It takes way less space to transport
people by public transit.

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ebola1717
Normally, I'm wary of Uber and it's business practices, but I am soooo ready
for this. The cabs where I grew up were awful - they took forever to come and
the drivers were often rude and unhelpful. I could never count on them. Plus,
drop-offs and pickups at the train stations were always a nightmare.

~~~
jameshart
I have bad news for you: those cab drivers are now your local uber drivers.

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the_watcher
The difference is that there's now a rating system for them, and because
Uber's broken the protectionist medallion racket, even if they're rude and
unhelpful, at least you can get a ride reasonably quickly, and they can't take
kooky routes without being accountable. It's pretty clear that even if the
driver pool includes all cab drivers that this is a major net positive for
riders.

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noer
Didn't see this as I skimmed the article but: What happens when people return?
The train lets off a bunch of people at once that need rides, but will there
be enough uber drivers to meet the demand?

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bandrami
I work near Dulles Airport and Uber sends pings to drivers throughout northern
VA that a bunch of flights are about to come in, in some cases offering a
bounty if they go.

This town itself may not have a ton of Uber drivers, but they can come from
anywhere in the area.

~~~
chrisseaton
Aren't there a bunch of flights coming in every minute, all day at a major
airport like Dulles? If the pinged them when flights were coming it'd be
pinging all day.

~~~
bandrami
There are a few big rushes. The morning east coast shuttles get in at about
8:30, and the evening ones at about 6. The big bunch of intercontinental
flights get in around midnight.

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no_protocol
The city is about 6 square miles in area and the general layout appears to be
a central hub with major routes as spokes around it to each edge.

Anyone living between the spokes can probably get to a spoke by walking 0.75
miles or less.

Just two or three continually circling vans/buses could go from the city
center, down a spoke, then back via another spoke. Probably could return every
20 minutes, give or take.

Can it be done for less than the $167,000 per year this Uber plan will cost
the city?

~~~
boto3
Yeah, assume the city is 2 by 3 miles and the station is right at center, then
one'd only need to walk at most ~1.7 miles to the train station. That's like
half an hour walk before and after work. Do your cardio a favor and start
walking and leave the parking space for less fortunate people who are not able
to walk.

~~~
ghaff
And people should also eat their vegetables and floss daily. Even ignoring bad
weather, the city needs to plan for transportation the way people actually
behave rather than how they ought to behave.

~~~
brianwawok
Except the city can have policies that encourage healthy habits. For example,
no tax on vegetables, $1 tax on soda.

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imgabe
Sure, in theory they can. In reality the same people who are too lazy to walk
1.7 miles also get to vote on whether those taxes go into effect.

~~~
brianwawok
This is why the benevolent dictator is the best form of government.

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hackuser
With Uber's massive political and PR operation, now I always wonder:

* Did Uber influence the politicians somehow?

* Did Uber place or pay for the article?

* How many of the anecdotal cab complaints (EDIT: And anecdotal Uber raves) in every HN Uber story are part of that PR operation (my apologies to all the legit ones)?

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the_watcher
* Did Uber influence the politicians somehow?

Yes. They influenced them by convincing them that this was a better option
than a major capital expenditure on a parking lot.

* Did Uber place or pay for the article?

Almost certainly not. This is a newsworthy story. They may have given the
writer an exclusive, however.

* How many of the anecdotal cab complaints (EDIT: And anecdotal Uber raves) in every HN Uber story are part of that PR operation (my apologies to all the legit ones)?

Anecdotal cab complaints are probably real, and for verification, just be a
person who has had to deal with cabs.

~~~
hackuser
Could you back up these claims?

In fairness, I don't know Uber did the things I am concerned about in this
case, but I do know that they've done them in other cases.

> Anecdotal cab complaints are probably real, and for verification, just be a
> person who has had to deal with cabs

I am, in several towns, and am a very satisfied customer. I've almost never
had any of the problems described so regularly here. That doesn't make them
impossible, of course. Also, I don't think anyone would say Uber was above
astroturfing on HN.

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colmvp
Can't read the article at work but I'll just add this anecdote: Uber is so
aggressively adding promos in my city that it's actually cheaper for me to to
take a 15-20 min ride in an Uber in a suburb than using local transit.

And just two days ago, my friend took an Uber from the suburbs to downtown
(25-30 min ride), which only cost him an extra two bucks compared to taking
public transit (1.5 - 2 hours commute).

