
Tell HN: Airbnb now opts in your name and photo to data sharing - zschuessler
I received an email today indicating AirBnb will now automatically opt-in user&#x27;s photo and first name in order to fight discrimination via their &quot;Project Lighthouse&quot;<p>There is no public content about this change, but if you are logged in you can view this page and opt out:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.airbnb.com&#x2F;account-settings&#x2F;privacy-and-sharing&#x2F;data-use" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.airbnb.com&#x2F;account-settings&#x2F;privacy-and-sharing&#x2F;...</a><p><pre><code>  Project Lighthouse

  If you leave this setting turned on, you’re helping us identify and prevent discrimination from happening on Airbnb—and you’re taking part in an initiative to better understand how and where discrimination happens on platforms like ours.

  If you turn this setting off, we won’t use your information, and we’ll remove it from future studies. You can change your mind at any time.
</code></pre>
The bit about being opted in was hidden towards the bottom of the email. Feels wrong.
======
commoner
Airbnb also uses your personal information for direct marketing. You can opt
out by sending an email to: opt-out@airbnb.com

> Where permissible according to applicable law we may use certain limited
> personal information about you, such as your email address, to hash it and
> to share it with social media platforms, such as Facebook or Google, to
> generate leads, drive traffic to our websites or otherwise promote our
> products and services or the Airbnb Platform.

> Please note that you may, at any time ask Airbnb to cease processing your
> data for these direct marketing purposes by sending an e-mail to opt-
> out@airbnb.com.

> In some jurisdictions, applicable law may entitle you to require Airbnb and
> Airbnb Payments not to process your personal information for certain
> specific purposes (including profiling) where such processing is based on
> legitimate interest.

> Where your personal information is processed for direct marketing purposes,
> you may, at any time ask Airbnb to cease processing your data for these
> direct marketing purposes by sending an e-mail to opt-out@airbnb.com.

[https://www.airbnb.com/terms/privacy_policy](https://www.airbnb.com/terms/privacy_policy)

~~~
seesaw
Here is a boilerplate you can copy/paste to email to the above ID:

Hi Please do not use my information for any marketing purposes, and do not
sell my information. I want to opt out of all the data sharing involving my
data.

I am sending you this email based on your documented policy referred below:

Please note that you may, at any time ask Airbnb to cease processing your data
for these direct marketing purposes by sending an e-mail to opt-
out@airbnb.com.

~~~
petemir
Yeah, I did this and got my account deleted. I do not recommend it.

Edit: apparently it was a misunderstanding of the operator... account
reinstated, luckily.

~~~
vecinu
Wow, this exact same thing happened to me. I called AirBnB support and they
said they most likely can't restore my deleted account, how did you get them
to reinstate your account?

I was so upset I lost all my data, trips, and reviews!

~~~
petemir
Sorry, didn't see the reply.

Immediately (30') after I got the first e-mail saying that my account was
deleted, I replied to the operator and told her I just wanted to opt-out, not
having my account deleted. She replied quickly (another 30'), said that she
was sorry for the misunderstanding, and reinstated my account.

Sidenote: Apparently my opting-out request got redirected to another operator
who should have got in contact with me, but 17 days after I am still waiting.

------
gundmc
"So, to get these perceptions, we’ll share Airbnb profile photos and the first
names associated with them with an independent partner that’s not part of
Airbnb. "

I have to imagine they considered making this opt-in and realized the vast
majority of users wouldn't take action to increase sharing of their personal
data. Despite the good cause, it is incredibly shady that they would implement
this as an opt-out.

IANAL, but I would think that this would be a flagrant violation of privacy
laws in many regions outside the US (this policy is limited to US hosts and
guests).

Edit: I also did not receive an email, but found the toggle active in my
account preferences after reading this post.

~~~
ibejoeb
It's only US users right now. Here's a more detailed announcement:
[https://www.airbnb.com/resources/hosting-homes/a/a-new-
way-w...](https://www.airbnb.com/resources/hosting-homes/a/a-new-way-were-
fighting-discrimination-on-airbnb-201)

Whatever good intention might be behind this, it's really off-putting to me.
They send your photo and name to a third party who is tasked with evaluating
those to determine your race.

"will look at these photos and first names and indicate their perceptions—or,
what race they think the information we shared suggests. They’ll share these
perceptions with a specialized team at Airbnb exclusively for anti-
discrimination work"

Presumably that'll be correlated to booking data to identify rejections. I
can't think of any other use case.

Gotta say, if someone truly doesn't want me to stay somewhere because of my
race, I'll take that rejection rather than force myself into a shitty
situation.

~~~
ponker
Exactly! The AirBNB setup puts both parties in a vulnerable spot. If people
are racist let them can my reservation, I don’t wanna see them either!

~~~
teej
This presumably helps Airbnb deplatform racist hosts, which is a better
outcome in my opinion.

~~~
ponker
I absolutely do NOT want that. Then hosts will learn to conceal their racism
(unless they wanted to be deplatformed, in which case why wouldn’t they
deplatform themselves?) and I might accidentally book with them.

~~~
hunter2_
I believe most attempts to counter racism involve shaming racists and
therefore result in the concealment of racism rather than lack of racism,
unfortunately. Just as teaching a kid to stop picking his nose or similar
activities results in concealment more often than stoppage.

------
bmarquez
Account deleted. Honestly given the pandemic (variations of cleaning standards
between homes and hotels, and increased pricing) this was an easy choice.

From the email: "We know your privacy is important"

Airbnb should prove it by making this opt-in instead of opt-out (and not
hiding the choice with a bunch of boilerplate). I expect these dark patterns
from a shadier website, not Airbnb.

Edit: If you go through "Account settings" you are only given a choice to
"deactivate" your account. To actually remove your information, go here:
[https://www.airbnb.com/privacy/manage-your-
data](https://www.airbnb.com/privacy/manage-your-data)

~~~
kuzee
I think they're justified to make this clearly flagged (sent out emails),
created with some of the leading privacy researchers, and provide an explicit
opt-out, and in the service of revealing racism and discrimination on the
platform. I got an email, read it, decided I didnt want to be involved, and
decided to opt-out. Glad they were transparent and gave advance notice, not
sure what else is reasonable to expect.

~~~
hokumguru
Not everybody will see that email though and they are probably relying on
that. I am sure, given the choice to opt in, most users would not (regardless
of the cause) - Similar to Apples new anti-tracking in iOS 14

Few people just opt in to having their rights violated

------
dvt
Instantly disabled it, thank you for the heads up! Interestingly, I did _not_
get an email that alerted me to the change.

~~~
whymauri
I didn't get one either.

~~~
seppin
Me neither, I had three settings I needed to "update" to prevent my image from
being circulated without my approval.

Bad form, Airbnb.

------
ibejoeb
Also, it launched and the email was sent on 30 June. Who knows whether opting
out after that has any effect, because it's not clear on what "launch" is in
this circumstance. They might have sent all the data over on the 30th.

------
m0ck
Great, now the corporations found a way to virtue signal AND steal your
privacy at the same time!

/s

~~~
BoiledCabbage
I've recently come to the realization that more often than not people who use
the phrase "virtual signal" is actually a really great signal in itself.

Essentially a good chunk of people do care so little about discrimination,
that it's difficult for them to believe that others actually even care about
it.

In this case, at it's face, to see a statement that Airbnb is collecting data
to investigate if their platform is being used for discrimination - and then
reach the conclusion that the most logical reason that Airbnb is collecting
data is not because they want to know if their platform is being used to
discriminate, but that instead it's just a ruse; they don't care and really
just want to collect facial data in order to look like they care about
discrimination to gain some side benefit.

Somehow via reasoning to think that that was the most logical conclusion is
pretty amazing. It conveys so frequently as: I care so little about
discrimination that I can't even imagine that Airbnb actually wants data and
cares about discrimination - there must be some other reason.

And again, I can't make that conclusion about the statement above (because
we've not discussed it), but from other discussions with people that's what
surprisingly frequently ends up being the underlying thinking.

~~~
zebnyc
Do you think it is possible to be suspicious about the motivations of faceless
corporations driven by a profit motive without be accused of "caring little
about discrimination" / labelled as a racist / misogynist / anti-LGTBTQ?

~~~
BoiledCabbage
At no point was anyone labeled a racist, misogynist or anti-LGBTQ. I actually
do have concerns about Airbnb using an opt-in policy for this. However, my
point wasn't about "how do I feel about Airbnb's change in policy". Ok, so
what _was_ it about:

A guy getting a job at an animal shelter because he thinks it'll help him get
laid is virtue signaling. Someone adhering to a religious practice by fasting
is virtue signaling. Someone changing their facebook profile pic to have a
logo for some cause is virtue signaling. A company prompted by recent events
wanting to investigate if there is discrimination on their platform isn't.

~~~
necovek
So a person wanting to promote a cause through their FB profile is "virtue
signalling" even if they do it regardless of recent events (let's imagine
someone putting up a "stop racism" banner there 5 years ago), but a company
doing that when the public eye is on it is not "virtue signalling".

Mhkay.

While I believe one can be genuine in either case, I find it more likely to be
"virtue signalling" when it's a company doing something on a hot topic right
now.

~~~
BoiledCabbage
> So a person wanting to promote a cause through their FB profile is "virtue
> signalling" even if they do it regardless of recent events (let's imagine
> someone putting up a "stop racism" banner there 5 years ago), but a company
> doing that when the public eye is on it is not "virtue signalling".

From your response, and others in this thread I'm starting to believe that a
lot of people that use the phrase 'virtue signaling' may not actually know
what it means.

~~~
necovek
I've read up on it, and you are right: I did not know what it meant (I assumed
it was signalling virtue without actually having it).

If Wikipedia article is anything to go by. ;)

------
jdm2212
The bit about it being opt-out was surprising but not in any way "hidden".
It's literally the first thing in the email after the explanation of what
Project Lighthouse is.

~~~
addflip
I got this email and it was not exactly easy to turn it off considering I
hadn't logged in to my Airbnb account in a while. Perhaps a better solution
would have been to provide a click within the email that would allow you to
turn it off from there.

~~~
dmode
There is a direct click on the email that leads you to the setting page. I am
using a gmail client, so not sure if the link doesn’t appear in other emails

~~~
addflip
Yes. There is a link in the email that leads you to the settings page but I
hadn't logged in a while so after entering my phone number along with the code
they sent me I also had to enter a code they sent to my email. My point being
that clicking the link in the email should automatically turn off the
"feature" I shouldn't have to log in.

~~~
coolspot
My experience as well.

------
caseysoftware
They don't need that data anyway.

I theorized about Airbnb inferring demographic information from Facebook likes
in 2015 because it was trivially easy: [https://caseysoftware.com/blog/social-
apis-for-social-evil](https://caseysoftware.com/blog/social-apis-for-social-
evil)

It was confirmed they were doing it in 2018. If you used social login with
them at all, they have all that info and they're _supposed_ to delete it
(according to Facebook's AUP) but effectively impossible to verify.

------
Zhenya
I'm torn.

What's better:

1) agree to their new terms and then opt-out

2) specifically disagree to the new terms but not be able to opt-out?

?

~~~
RandomBacon
Contact their legal department directly with the combination of disagree and
opt-out?

I imagine they make it as hard as possible to do that.

------
gitgud
Is it normal for social media sharing to be on as well? I swear I didn't opt-
in to this...

[https://i.imgur.com/6U8JiER.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/6U8JiER.jpg)

------
Giorgi
That's weird, there is no "Project Lighthouse" option for me. Is it rolled out
only in US?

~~~
ibejoeb
Yes, it's US-only now.

FAQ: [https://www.airbnb.com/resources/hosting-homes/a/a-new-
way-w...](https://www.airbnb.com/resources/hosting-homes/a/a-new-way-were-
fighting-discrimination-on-airbnb-201)

------
theklub
Airbnb is quickly becoming an eBay. A product people hate but have little
alternative to.

~~~
dgellow
Hotels and hostels are still a thing.

------
kamyarg
It took me some time to find it, so for people looking for it. Here is the
link to page you can delete your account from.

[https://www.airbnb.com/privacy/manage-your-
data](https://www.airbnb.com/privacy/manage-your-data)

------
jimmaswell
Why do hosts even get to reject people or see their picture or even name
before making the decision? I don't see any legitimate use, only illegitimate
use like denying based on race. Let hosts set a minimum stay length and such
if they want but that should be it.

~~~
namdnay
I guess it’s important to see the guest profile/history, you wouldn’t want to
let people who have previously had problems into your home?

~~~
jlm451
Right, seeing a user's previous reviews by hosts makes sense. I would guess
that having a name & face makes hosts more comfortable, although it does allow
for discrimination?

------
dividuum
Seems GDPR prevents that in Europe. I see now such option at the linked url.

~~~
dgellow
Reading other comments, it seems to be US-only for now.

------
bboyrival
There's a lot more nuance to this:

[https://www.airbnb.com/resources/hosting-homes/a/a-new-
way-w...](https://www.airbnb.com/resources/hosting-homes/a/a-new-way-were-
fighting-discrimination-on-airbnb-201)

I would also consider reading the white paper if you have some time:

[https://news.airbnb.com/wp-
content/uploads/sites/4/2020/06/P...](https://news.airbnb.com/wp-
content/uploads/sites/4/2020/06/Project-Lighthouse-
Airbnb-2020-06-12.pdf?_ga=2.103819651.2088554614.1593815824-1752601650.1593815824)

TLDR is that that information is stripped of Airbnb identifying information,
asymmetrically encrypted before perceived race is determined, then noise is
added when the data is returned to Airbnb to prevent identifying individuals.
This data is only used for identifying acceptance rate disparity.

~~~
AnthonyMouse
> This data is only used for identifying acceptance rate disparity.

Isn't that going to make it basically impossible to investigate false
positives? This is already a huge problem with racial disparity numbers in
general. If you don't account for things like income or education level you
see huge racial disparities everywhere, but if you do they either get a lot
smaller or go away entirely. It would be naive not to expect similar factors
affecting housing determinations.

You also have the problem that the average guest is going to stay for a few
days, so even a listing that stays fully booked is going to have maybe a
hundred guests a year. ~12% of the population is black, so that's about 12
people. How are they expecting to draw any meaningful conclusions from a
sample size that small?

~~~
bboyrival
This is to measure the acceptance rate gap overall, not the gap for a specific
host/guest/experience. Then, after changing the product, you can measure the
gap post facto and see if you actually did anything. You can't change what you
can't measure.

~~~
AnthonyMouse
But then what do you do with that if you don't understand the causes? It could
be a systemic bias in your algorithm. It could be that the apparent disparity
is just confounders you haven't accounted for. It could be that some of the
hosts are overtly racist. It could be any combination of any of these.

You can just A/B test it with random changes until it goes away, but that
doesn't mean you solved the problem, only that you made the metric a target.

If the problem is that some of the hosts are overtly racist, you could make
the disparity go away by creating an algorithmic bias the other way, but
that's only increasing the overall unfairness. The racists are still there
harming the people they harm, then you introduce an additional harm to some
entirely different innocent people in unrelated transactions. That doesn't
help the people originally being harmed because the undue beneficiaries of
your changes are completely different people who just happen to be the same
race as the original victims, which makes the numbers balance even though
overall unfairness has gone up rather than down. The equivalent of "solving"
cops killing disproportionately many innocent black people by having the cops
kill more innocent white people.

Meanwhile if the problem was algorithmic bias to begin with then you still
have to understand the specific means by which the bias operates, otherwise
you're susceptible to doing the same thing. Your algorithm was improperly
disadvantaging Chris to the benefit of Chaz, you modify it to additionally
improperly disadvantage Anna to the benefit of Alicia, and now your numbers
balance because Chaz and Anna are the same race and the harms cancel out for
your metric, even though they don't cancel out in real life for the people
affected because they're different people.

And if the problem was that you weren't correctly accounting for confounders
then there wasn't a real racial disparity there to begin with, and by making
the un-adjusted numbers balance you _created one_.

You have to actually understand the causes and mechanisms before you can
devise a solution. Just having aggregate statistics doesn't do it.

I'm inclined to think that it actually makes it worse, because then people
only care about the statistics. But the statistics can show a disparity when
everything is fine because it's just confounders, and the statistics can show
balance when everything is not fine when you're making multiple errors in
different directions that sum to zero in aggregate but not for the people
affected.

~~~
bboyrival
I recommend reading the technical paper if you're interested in the
methodology seeing as it covers the things you're thinking about.

~~~
AnthonyMouse
No it doesn't. It talks a lot about how they're addressing anonymizing the
data, which we know generally doesn't work anyway:

[https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2009/09/your-secrets-
liv...](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2009/09/your-secrets-live-online-
in-databases-of-ruin/)

Plus they essentially admit that anonymizing the data makes it less useful and
their claimed solution is to use a larger sample size. Which is like offering
"buy more fuel" as a solution to poor fuel economy. It's no solution to the
efficiency loss (at any given sample size it's still worse) and you may not
always be able to _get_ a larger sample size.

None of which addresses the problem I identified anyway, which is related to
identifying the cause of the disparity once one is discovered, which is
already almost intractably hard even without anonymized data.

The much better solution is to identify _specific instances of discrimination_
and address them (and the mechanism of discrimination they represent)
regardless of what the statistics say because, again, aggregate statistics can
both say that something is wrong when it's not and that nothing is wrong when
it is, and the only way to tell is by looking at the individual cases.

------
dmode
Your post is disingenuous. I got the same email and it very clearly lays out
that you can opt out of the settings. This was not hidden in some obscure T&C.
You can click the opt out link on the email directly and opt out.

~~~
advisedwang
I got the email and it was focused on:

a) Saying this program was to fight discrimination, and

b) Saying they weren't collecting new data or doing anything nefarious.

What it left out was clearly explaining what they _were_ doing. I had to parse
text carefully and use my own familiarity with the industry to understand that
they were going to decide my race based on my photo/name.

Without clearly explaining what the new data use is, you can't expect people
to make an informed decision about opting-out.

~~~
dmode
Here’s the email copy. It very clearly states exactly what this is doing. Not
sure what text you need to parse here

“ We’ll only use information you already share This project will address
discrimination that's based on perception—so we’ll use first names and profile
photos from hosts and guests to help us understand the perceived race someone
might associate with them.

We’ll use it to uncover patterns of discrimination We’ll use this information
to help us understand when and where racial discrimination is happening on our
platform. Any insights will be used to help develop new features and policies
that create a more equitable experience for everyone.

Information won’t be tied to your specific account We know your privacy is
important, so we analyze trends in bulk and Airbnb won’t associate perceived
race information with your account. We won’t use this information in marketing
or advertising, and it will only be used for anti-discrimination work.

We consulted with and solicited input from leading civil rights and privacy
organizations to guide us We know how delicate this work is—so we developed
this work with support and input from leading civil rights organizations like
Color Of Change and Upturn, along with privacy organizations like Center for
Democracy & Technology, to make sure our approach is both thoughtful and
respectful of your privacy.

You can opt out in your Privacy Settimsg”

