
My Teenage Video Game Obsession Wasn't 'Gaming Disorder' - ayanai
https://reason.com/blog/2018/06/20/who-formally-classifies-video-game-addic
======
DanBC
As he quotes, this is how gaming disorder defined:

>For gaming disorder to be diagnosed, the behaviour pattern must be of
sufficient severity to result in significant impairment in personal, family,
social, educational, occupational or other important areas of functioning and
would normally have been evident for at least 12 months.

The important parts are _significant impairment_ , and continuing even though
you know it's doing harm.

But this is how he describes his life at the time:

> I spent hours nearly every single afternoon hovering around the game
> machines at a local strip mall arcade within walking distance of my home
> down in Sanford, Florida. If I had nothing else to do, that's where I spent
> my time. If I had things to do, well, sometimes I played video games instead
> of doing those things. Virtually all my free time was absorbed in video
> games (oh, and Dungeons & Dragons as well).

> I was also a deeply depressed, closeted gay teen at the darkest, cruelest
> point of the AIDS crisis, terrified that if anybody found out I'd get the
> crap beaten out of me, and if I ever acted on my urges I'd get sick and die.

This isn't gaming disorder. This is the equivalent of someone reading a
medical dictionary and thinking they have Dengue Fever (even though they've
had no contact with mosquitos).

Psychologists wouldn't diagnose gaming disorder. They'd create a formulation
that includes all the other things that the author thinks are important.

~~~
yellowapple
I think that's the author's point; the assertion here is that most people with
"gaming disorder" probably "have" it as a symptom of one or more underlying
disorders. Most people would - by a reasonable psychologist, at least - be
diagnosed with those underlying conditions; the folks pushing for an official
recognition of "gaming disorder" are not reasonable psychologists.

------
manfredo
Somewhat related comparison: Apparently Americans watch an average of 30-35
hours of TV a week (4-5 hours a day).[1] Whereas many definitions I've seen
for gaming disorders set a threshold of 20 hours a week or 2 hours a day to
define gaming disorder.

Seems pretty likely that the concern over gaming is primarily due to it being
a new medium. I fail to see how staring at a screen passively for 4-5 hours
can be considered normal, while staring at a screen while actively facing
challenges and solving problems for half that time is a disorder.

Edit: Forgot to add the link to the citation:

1\. [https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/business/media/nielsen-
su...](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/business/media/nielsen-survey-media-
viewing.html)

~~~
rhcom2
I think the key is:

> the behaviour pattern must be of sufficient severity to result in
> significant impairment in personal, family, social, educational,
> occupational or other important areas of functioning

If anything behavior is messing with your life and you find yourself unable to
control it then it could rise to needing help.

~~~
ssijak
Watching TV for 4 hours per day does all that to you. Especially now when tv
programs are so bad.

~~~
virgilp
I'd argue that's a disorder, too

~~~
sgroppino
How about playing chess 5 hours per day? Is that a disorder, too?

~~~
onion2k
Spending time doing something doesn't make it a disorder. Spending time doing
something _to the extreme detriment of other aspects of your life_ is what
makes it a disorder.

If you spend 5 hours a day playing chess even though you know it's ruining
your life then, yes, it's a disorder. If that becomes common enough that chess
is often associated with people ruining their lives, then it's reasonable for
the WHO to recognise it.

This isn't complicated.

~~~
StavrosK
Exactly, and I don't know why we go to the trouble of defining specific
categories. Why not just say that "I find myself doing X so much that it
affects other aspects of my life and I would like to stop" is the definition
of a disorder, no matter what X is, and just help people? Why do we need the
label?

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dragonwriter
Contrary to the premise of the source subtitle, the WHO isn't moving to
_uniquely_ pathologize gaming (it is not the only non-substance-use addiction-
style disorder that the ICD would recognize).

Further, the authors argument that the behavior pattern is _not_ gaming
disorder is based entirely on a description of the perceived source of the
problem which _does not conflict with anything that is defined for gaming
disorder_ , merely with an implication that the author reads into the act of
making the definition.

The attempt to use the narrative to attack the fact that the disorder is being
identified is ludicrous, most generously it would support raising the idea
that the proposed definition should recognize a distinction between any
standalone problem with gaming and gaming as a peripheral manifestation of
other problems by including, in the diagnostic criteria, a criteria specifying
the absence of certain other simultaneous diagnoses (a not-uncommon feature of
DSM/ICD psychiatric diagnostic criteria.)

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everdev
The author's point seems to be that yes, video games are addictive, but
there's usually an underlying condition like anxiety or depression.

I think the truth is probably in the middle. Video games, screen, sugar, etc.
are all inherently addictive and the addictive nature is probably exacerbated
by emotional distress.

I spent much of my teenage years playing hours of video games like the author.
I think it was a combination of the dopamine rush of winning and seeing my
rating go up and a way to suppress feelings of loneliness.

~~~
LoSboccacc
Author is talking about 1980s games. He’s missing an important point: new
games are specifically designed to be far more addictive and harder to put
down, especially those mobile incrementals.

Sure the situation is still faceted as today as back then, but now gaming,
gamification and connected gaming loops (when short and long loop overlaps so
a game is never in a “completed” state, see game dev from kayrosoft) are far
more pervasive.

I’m a gamer, I can play long hours and I’m not addicted. But. Those new breed
of mobile games scares the hell out of me. I designed some game I played some
of those. They are actively addictive not because they are interesting but
because they tie into your psicology with boxes keys rewards daily bonuses
etc.

~~~
Nullabillity
> He’s missing an important point: new games are specifically designed to be
> far more addictive and harder to put down, especially those mobile
> incrementals.

Arcade games were the original microtransactions.

~~~
rtpg
One thing you didn't have was the rat race involved in many modern multiplayer
games.

When you want to be competitive and the top people are all playing all the
time, you have no choice but to also play all the time. Doubly so when you
have some sort of XP/loot system and some notion of resource consumption

~~~
dogma1138
Arcade games had top scores and even prizes.

~~~
jexah
This completely misses the point. In arcade games you can take a day off, come
back the next day, and be just as likely to be "the best". In modern online
mobile games, if you wanna be at the top and you take a day off, you might as
well just give up. This is what was being referred to.

~~~
watwut
The primary difference however seem to be that in arcade you competed against
dozen local kids most of whom did not cared at all, so it was easy to stay on
top and feel like you are best of best.

Internet makes you compete against whole world, so there is unlimited supply
of people who dedicate their whole life to this particular competition.
Necessary, you have to settle for not being best or dedicate whole life too.
And if this is your motivation, then anything competitive online will consume
you - whether game or fiction writing.

------
ajeet_dhaliwal
I can relate, for me it was bullying. Games are a good distraction because
they give you a fighting chance. 5 vs 1 in real life is going to result in
your defeat. And hey due to a love of games I became a programmmer and worked
for two great game companies, without games I don’t know what I’d be doing.
Probably wouldn’t be on hacker news. Not the worst ‘disorder’ to have.

------
JauntyHatAngle
I've said it elsewhere, but for me I played a lot of games when I was younger
because I was bullied and didn't really have many friends.

That changed later in life, but by then gaming wasn't just an escape - it was
part of me, and my lifestyle - I play less, but still enjoy the odd marathon.

That said, I think there is an element of truth to gaming obsession.

MMO's had a heavy social element, and your perceived 'status' sometimes was
linked in people's minds as your rank or your gear. This gear or rank often
required heavy grinding for that perceived social benefit which made it a race
to the bottom in the sense that fun had nothing to do with it anymore, it was
competitiveness and/or obsession as well as maintenance of your status.

Nowadays the discussion (rightfully) is more around loot boxes, but that's a
separate condition in my mind to the reward mechanism you get from ranks or
loot.

I do also think it is important to distinguish addictiveness that comes from
grinding and competitive gaming, to the escapism that drives others to play
games for hours at a time. You can get so focused on competitiveness that it
can eat into your life, making it imbalanced. The reason for that is totally
different to someone who is trying to escape a bad social
life/family/whatever.

There are plenty of completely healthy kids/adults who play way too much games
because of the addictive nature of the games and not for any underlying
reason, and that can be an issue in its own way, but that needs to be limited
by parenting, and/or being raised in a way that allows someone to make good
decisions.

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XalvinX
Good, level-headed post. Gaming is just another way to avoid real life for a
little while, which is scary for almost everybody but more so for teenagers.
It is also fun as hell, and builds certain skills such as reasoning and
problem solving, hand-eye coordination, teamwork (at least some do), and so
on.

Playing games is also a basic human activity and goes back for millennia.

Just imagine the amount of "social impairment" the top NBA players or Olympic
athletes had in order to get to the top of their games? I knew a girl that had
dreams of becoming an Olympic skater...her whole childhood and teenage years
were utterly destroyed...and she failed. Was she sick? Did she need treatment?

I also knew a guy that tried to make pro baseball...his life was consumed into
his late 20s or so. Didn't make it either. Did he need treatment?

Throwing away 20 years of your life in hopes of becoming the next Derek Jeter
is ok but playing some video games for a few months is a disease? Oh, that
makes sense.

Come to think of it, should I have been taken away from my mom because she
encouraged my stamp collecting hobby, which took time away from other parts of
my life? Just how far will they go with this.....??????

~~~
wilsonnb2
> I also knew a guy that tried to make pro baseball...his life was consumed
> into his late 20s or so. Didn't make it either. Did he need treatment?

> I knew a girl that had dreams of becoming an Olympic skater...her whole
> childhood and teenage years were utterly destroyed...and she failed. Was she
> sick? Did she need treatment?

> Throwing away 20 years of your life in hopes of becoming the next Derek
> Jeter is ok but playing some video games for a few months is a disease? Oh,
> that makes sense.

I really don't think you understand what the WHO is talking about. Here's
their definition for gaming disorder, emphasis mine:

A pattern of gaming behavior (“digital-gaming” or “video-gaming”)
characterized by _impaired control over gaming_ , increasing priority given to
gaming over other activities to the extent that gaming takes precedence over
other interests and daily activities, and _continuation or escalation_ of
gaming despite the _occurrence of negative consequences_.

Doing something with all of your free time, dedicating your life to it, that's
not an addiction. It's an addiction when you _can 't stop_ even if you want
to, even though it's causing negative consequences in your life.

Someone who games for eight hours a day but still has a fulfilling life
outside of gaming and could stop if they wanted to has no problem. Someone who
games for 18 hours a day, regularly misses work or skips classes to play
games, and can't stop playing has a problem.

If you're interested in hearing more about this, there's a subreddit dedicated
to people who believe they are addicted to gaming and want to stop. It's got
some decent reads on it.

[https://old.reddit.com/r/StopGaming/top/?sort=top&t=all](https://old.reddit.com/r/StopGaming/top/?sort=top&t=all)

------
toomanybeersies
I used to read a lot of books when I was in school as a form of escapism. I
would stay up until the early hours of the morning reading books, usually
until about 2 AM or so. Obviously this lack of sleep caused "impairment in
personal, family, social, educational, occupational or other important areas
of functioning", to quote the article. Does that mean I was addicted to books?
Is reading addiction in the DSM?

There's unhealthy habits and there's addictions, and often the line seems
blurry between the two. You can be an addict and a fully functional member of
society. My uncle is an alcoholic of the symptoms of addiction in the DSM:
"significant impairment in personal, family, social, educational, occupational
or other important areas of functioning", he shows none. I've never seen him
sober for more than half a day though, he usually cracks his first beer about
an hour after waking up.

~~~
kungtotte
Compulsion is the other side of the coin, not just negative effects.

If your uncle can't give up the sauce he's an alcoholic, and if you _couldn
't_ stop reading then you were absolutely addicted to books.

You can be an addict (compulsive behaviour) without any negative effects at
all.

It's not the amount of beers you drink, it's that you can't stop.

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syspec
To be honest, this person seems to have a persecution complex. Most people
view too much gaming in a bad light, but no more so than they view too much
anything in a bad light.

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Angostura
> Under new draft guidelines by the World Health Organization (WHO), I would
> be classified as having a "gaming disorder,"

From what I’ve read of the definitions, I don’t think that he would be
classified this way. So possibly a bit of a straw man.

~~~
terminalcommand
I think he might be saying that he would be classified as having a "gaming
disorder" when he was a teenager and spent all his time on arcade machines, if
the new draft guidelines were in effect then.

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snarfybarfy
Wow, I always knew it!

Being forced to work 40h a week must be a disorder too according to their
definition!

It significantly impairs my personal, family and social affairs (not to
mention my back!)

And yet I keep doing it, even though I know it's doing me harm.

------
armada651
I would go a step further than the author and say that all forms of substance
abuse is fundamentally rooted in other disorders.

People with stressful and unfulfilling lives will naturely search for an
escape in either gaming, drugs or other substance abuse.

Taking that escape away from them won't help them, it will only cause them to
relapse over and over again.

------
gtlondon
What makes me smile about this (and any) "disorder" classification is:

> For gaming disorder to be diagnosed, the behaviour pattern must be of
> sufficient severity to result in significant impairment in personal, family,
> social, educational, occupational or other important areas of functioning

But what if you just _really_ prefer gaming (or whatever your disorder is) to
personal, family, social, educational and occupational areas of life :)

Based on this Einstein had a "disorder", always studying rather than outside
playing.

~~~
watwut
Einstein was characterized as smart but lazy by his teacher, so probably not.
Middle class kids in his time were not expected to play outside freely the way
American nostalgia runs now afaik either.

More importantly, it is not about what you prefer, but how it impacts you. If
you prefer gaming to job, but still sont miss important meetings, then it is
not impacting you negatively. If your gaming is helping you to cope with
bullying, then it is affecting you positively. If you ignore kids for weeks
because you can't unglue yourself, despite feeling guilty about it, then it is
affecting you negatively. (If you never cared about them in the first place,
then it is non factor).

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timavr
'Fundraising Disorder', 'Working Disorder', 'Speculation Disorder' should be
included as well.

Any system which has a reward as part of the system can lead to a disorder.

~~~
taneq
HN Commenting Disorder. >.>

------
rl3
When comparing self-destructive coping mechanisms, gaming isn't that bad
relative to some of the alternatives.

Speaking from personal experience, it's vastly cheaper and moderately
healthier than drowning your sorrows out with booze or drugs. Depending on the
game and the skill involved, it may leave you mentally sharper than you'd
otherwise be. You might even make some friends along the way.

Of course, it can still spiral out of control and ruin your life just the
same.

~~~
terminalcommand
I agree. Anything you do as a form of escapism might help you. For example if
you watch a lot of TV and English is not your first language, after some point
you'll ditch the subtitles and your English will vastly improve.

If you play a lot of puzzle games, you will be mentally sharper.

If you play a lot of shoot 'em ups, your reaction times will improve.

If you hang around in the internet and have an interest for computers, you'll
eventually get into computer science and programming and you'll learn quite a
lot whilst trying to escape reality.

I had a friend whom I would describe as a gaming addict. He was the brightest
pupil I knew from the high school. He didn't eat properly, he always wore the
same hoodie (his favorite) even in the coldest winter days. He refused to
drink water and only drank ice tea. He went on to a college in a distant town
and disappeared.

After 3 years I saw him, he was still the same. He told me he earned some
money from the youtube channel he opened in high school. He had purchased a
big box of chocolate marshmallows from the supermarket, which would be his
meals for a couple of days while he was visiting his friends in a different
town. He struggled at college. He played obscure anime games.

After another year, he told me that he changed his major (econ) after 4 years
of studying. He started CS and his life turned around.

It could be the case that you resort to gaming to escape reality. But
resorting to gaming could also make you unable to change that reality and
break out from that spiral.

I don't know if he would've made the decision to jump ship and start anew
sooner if he wasn't playing. But in the end he was able to break out of his
habit with time.

I think with time the addictions wear off, whether it is TV (in my case) or
gaming. I used to watch hours and hours of TV every day. If I didn't I would
feel stressed out and couldn't function properly. But now that I've grown I
don't feel the urge to bing. It resolved by itself.

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FrozenVoid
I was playing about 10 hours/day of Starcraft a decade ago. It was replacing
social interaction and gave some sort of satisfaction - but it wasn't
something too important,I could skip playing it for weeks if i found something
more interesting. It was concentrated gaming where i had nothing better to do.
Eventually i got bored of it, since it was causing me losing hours of sleep at
night.

------
otabdeveloper2
Video games are vice (like beer or cigarettes), not a hobby.

~~~
toxicFork
Why? Is stamp-collecting a vice? Listening to music?

~~~
fjsolwmv
Yes. A vice is anything you need enjoy. A virtue is anything that enables you
or others to vice.

~~~
toxicFork
I see what you mean but that is a great corruption of the word.

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smilesnd
I hate opinion pieces.

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genericacct
It definitely is just a symptom but I am guessing mainstream media needs
something to make digital look more scary to soccer moms.

