
Ennui: How to Overcome Chronic Boredom - EndXA
https://effectiviology.com/ennui/
======
dsubburam
Aristotle's conception of eudaimonia, happiness consisting in "activity of the
rational soul, conducted in accordance with virtue or excellence"[1] helps
here. Lack of such activity perhaps leads to ennui.

Not entirely in the individual's hands, as he goes on to say "Someone who is
friendless, childless, powerless, weak, and ugly will simply not be able to
find many opportunities for virtuous activity over a long period of time, and
what little he can accomplish will not be of great merit. To some extent,
then, living well requires good fortune"[2].

Surprised I didn't see this mentioned in the article. An adjacent, perhaps
more controversial, formulation of this point: Meaninglessness can be
countered by the voluntary adoption of responsibility. (e.g. having children)

[1]
[https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle/](https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle/)
[2] [https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-
ethics/](https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-ethics/)

~~~
SeekingMeaning
> Meaninglessness can be countered by the voluntary adoption of
> responsibility.

This reminded me of Jordan Peterson

~~~
m463
I listened to him on Joe Rogan and he seemed like a pretty down to earth guy.
However on the show it seemed like he was treated as a controversial figure.

~~~
imbnwa
That's because he says lots of down to earth things except his philosophical
warrants for these things are insanely conservative

~~~
SeekingMeaning
> However on the show it seemed like he was treated as a controversial figure.

Well, I guess this answers that (and maybe more).

But to give my personal perspective, I’m not sure what Peterson’s motives are.
He has stated that he used to have severe clinical depression, which might
help contextualize some of his more “grim” lectures/videos. (He and his
daughter are able to mitigate their depression by having a carnivore diet.
Strange, but it seems to work for them.)

~~~
onemoresoop
It seems to me that there is a financial motivation, they're for getting
attention and monetize that attention. Both JP and his daughter are selling
snake oil. Having said that, it's a huge turn-off to try to understand what
his ramblings really are about.

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nicbou
Usually, it happens to me when I'm mentally exhausted, or when I do nothing
for a long period of time.

Here are a few tricks that work for me:

* Don't force yourself to get things done. You need rest, not shame.

* Get properly bored. Mindlessly consuming content just makes it last longer.

* Do something easy and different. I usually run myself a bath or go for a walk. It's enough to get me off the computer and to get ideas flowing again.

* Get some rest. Write this evening off, and relax for a bit. The rest will wait.

~~~
nicbou
Oh and I forgot:

* Put a few things back in their place. I don't know why, but it's a surprisingly effective way to get out of a rut. Usually, I end up cleaning the whole flat, even though I hate cleaning.

~~~
DantesKite
Oh interesting. A bit dark, but I've noticed many prisoners have a set routine
of constantly cleaning their surroundings. Possibly because it gives them
something to do.

As for myself, I have noticed there's something calming about moving things
where they belong (even if initially it doesn't seem very exciting).

But it's easy to forget.

Thank you for the reminder.

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decebalus1
Sigh... I hate this type of content. This is just trying to use an archaic
term for something which is basically a symptom of a current mental health
pandemic (depression). I feel the same vibe as with borrowed concepts like
Hygge or other crap with the only purpose of selling something or driving
traffic. Pseudo-scientific bullshit is what it is, half-baked superficial
advice with a protestant work ethic and self-sufficiency tone. Hey, we found a
subtle difference between some terms so here's some free subpar mental health
advice from an anonymous unqualified internet entity. Pls like and share.
Cheap self-help porn targeted at overachievers.

> The term ‘ennui’ is often used interchangeably with ‘boredom’. However,
> various distinctions have been drawn between these two terms, and in
> general, the main difference between boredom and ennui is that ‘boredom’
> refers to a mental state that is short-tern and driven primarily by
> situational and environmental factors, while ‘ennui’ refers to a mental
> state that is chronic and driven primarily by dispositional (personality-
> based) factors.

so... chronic boredom?

Shit, just talk to a professional, don't read online articles about how to
deal with your mental health challenges. Just reach out and ask for help. The
stakes are too high. If you feel chronically bored, you're most likely heading
towards burnout or you're depressed but not realizing it yet. The tone of the
article is very shallow wrt to depression. It more nuanced than ' it’s
possible for someone to suffer from depression but not ennui, as in the case
of someone who experiences deep chronic sadness and lack of energy, but not
the existential boredom that characterizes ennui'.

~~~
kayodelycaon
> Cheap self-help porn targeted at overachievers.

Pretty much my thoughts on this. I’m bipolar and is this article is just bad.

There multiple types of depression with various causes and different
treatments. I’ve had just about all of them.

Any person can burn out or find life pointless simply by grinding away at life
without taking care of themselves.

A good book on cognitive behavioral therapy is going to fix a lot more
problems than articles like this.

------
firefoxd
The article makes it sound like a medical term, but I think Ennui is "boredom"
in French...

I often recommend to switching from a consumption mind to a producing one.
Instead of looking for the next Netflix show that will cure your boredom, or
for a person to entertain you, make something. Of course, this is easier said
than done. Boredom doesn't disappear because you decided to do something.

One issue is that boredom is developed over a long period of time, to the
point that it becomes a habit. Once you decide to do something about it,
expect it to take just as long to part with it.

You can still watch your Netflix show, but make a schedule for your boredom
breaking habit. Every evening at 6 write for 30 minutes. Try to run a mile in
the morning without any earphones. Practice a musical instruments once a day.
Read a book for 30 minutes a day. Nothing to drastically change your
lifestyle, but over the course of a month, these habits replace your boredom.

~~~
badtuple
Don't forget the opposite. Some people have the opposite problem. If all you
do is produce/create then you're going to burnout and feel like you don't care
anymore.

Consuming gives you new ideas on what to produce and enthusiasm about what you
could create. You can't produce without consuming, and you likely won't be
satisfied just consuming indefinitely.

------
roywiggins
This overlaps like 80% with clinical depression as currently defined, no? How
does this entire article not include "anhedonia", which is literally the
inability to enjoy things you previously enjoyed- and is a classic marker for
clinical depression.

~~~
1996
Alternative explanation: maybe our medical classification changed the label
for something the ancient greeks found valuable, leading to a semantic slide
(ataraxia => anhedonia => depression) as it is no longer appropriate in the
current society for whatever reason.

Maybe people feel better when their are busybodies because culture/media feeds
the message they should be unhappy if they don't do something or help others.
Maybe society couldn't function if most people felt no desire to have kids or
work besides the minimum required for shelter and subsistence.

The post below yours at the moment calls for having a kid, which is both
taking a responsibility and according to most parents the equivalent of
finding a greater purpose that yourself.

It strikes me also as very convenient bargain for a society that couldn't
function if the population and the economy was always shrinking.

Do you really think most people would bother waking up to go to work if they
had no kids but a place of dwelling and food on the table (say through UBI or
anything)? The creative hackers, maybe, but I think most people would find
videogames and drinking with friend quite sufficient.

The post pandemic will be a great experiment to check if the price elasticity
of work has been permanently altered by a few weeks of isolation, and
reflection.

~~~
Sophistifunk
Society? You think the desire for children is something cooked up by evil
capitalists? How exactly did humans not go extinct before 1800?

~~~
roywiggins
Strictly speaking it didn't matter much what people wanted back then. Babies
happened regardless. Women had very little say in whether they had babies.
Family planning is very new.

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viburnum
The recommendations in the article are just a bunch of generic advice for
whatever is in style right now. Zero evidence any of it will work. It might
actually make you feel worse.

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erfgh
Have a child. Problem solved for many years.

~~~
bryanrasmussen
There is nothing as boring as a child, have you ever tried to engage one in
conversation?

~~~
swader999
It's different when it's your own child. You see the world through their eyes
and the mundane becomes interesting again. Something like tying shoes is such
a feat for a kid to achieve. They are on cloud nine for a week once they learn
it. This is infectious.

~~~
eitland
Some people have that feeling on a more general level. It seems I'm lucky that
some of them work in the kindergarden where my two youngest kids go.

Somewhat related: while I've always cared about others after I grew up it is
much stronger now. How much of it that comes from having children an how much
comes from becoming a new person because of deliberate decisions I don't know.

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arpa
Ennui sounds like a boring old depression

~~~
freehunter
The difference tends to be ennui is caused by lack of stimulation where
depression is caused by chemical imbalances in the brain.

~~~
roywiggins
Maybe, but

lack of motivation

unable to enjoy things you previously liked

disinterest in the future

constant low energy

Are classic signs of clinical depression. Nobody gets diagnosed with clinical
depression based on brain chemistry, they get diagnosed on symptoms. And these
symptoms are basically the same ones.

~~~
freehunter
That would be a diagnostic failure. Treating someone with anti-depressants
when they do not have clinical depression could ruin their life, even end
their life (suicide is a side effect of many anti-depressant medications).

~~~
roywiggins
Depression is diagnosed based on clinical symptoms, not brain chemistry. Read
the list of symptoms from the DSM V and compare- "chronic ennui" as defined in
the article would get you most of the way there.

[https://www.psycom.net/depression-definition-
dsm-5-diagnosti...](https://www.psycom.net/depression-definition-
dsm-5-diagnostic-criteria/)

------
paulcole
Maybe it’s not always something to overcome? Sometimes there is no point to
doing something you used to enjoy.

There’s nothing wrong with acknowledging the pointlessness of something. You
don’t always have to be doing something and you don’t always have to be happy.

------
adelHBN
"Someone who is friendless, childless, powerless, weak, and ugly will simply
not be able to find many opportunities for virtuous activity over a long
period of time, ..."

This is B.S. I don't believe in categorical statements like this. Life is not
a constant. A person may be friendless, powerless, weak and even childless for
two decades. But all of that can suddenly change. As for ugly, I've seen the
ugliest people marry the most beautiful people. And some of these ugly people
were total shy, introverts.

So if you are ugly like me, and if you're down in your life like I've been at
times when my startup failed, be patient and continue on with life. It will
get better. And for love of all that is holy, stay away from these sorts of
nonsense absolutisms.

~~~
Galaco
In my own personal experience, some aspects of that list may be indicative of,
or lead to mental health issues that may indeed have a substantial negative
effect on the ability to seek out such opportunity.

Irregardless of the truth each aspect of that statement, its commonly
understood that beautiful people have easier access to opportunity than ugly
people; we as humans are biased based on appearance.

------
dammitcoetzee
Great another thing to self diagnose, except now you can sound pretentious
too. Most people, myself included, don't have anything truly wrong with them
other than bad habits and bad discipline that will just take a year or more
time horizon to struggle and work through until resolved. It's not that
they're not real. I just don't like the idea of adopting something as a title
or ownership "I have depression/I am depressed" vs "I am experiencing
depression as a symptom from a lack of exercise and an abuse of the internet
and entertainment."

Also therapy is more available than ever and talking to a real person is
guaranteed healthier than reading WebMD. If you can't afford a therapist talk
to your friends. It takes a bit of courage to admit your feelings but everyone
has experienced these feelings to some degree and likely has great advice.
Even finding out, for example, that it took one friend a few years to get over
something is helpful since it means you don't have to beat yourself up about
not getting over it today.

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_sbrk
1\. Have hobbies 2\. Get married 3\. Have kids

2 & 3 cancel 1 out, and you're never "bored" again.

~~~
mr_toad
You may not be bored, but you can certainly get tired of being stuck in a rut,
which is more like ennui.

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starkd
Looks the same as depression to me. Though I wonder if referring to it as
ennui might make it more manageable. Depression has suicidal connotations, and
if perceived as such can lead to a downward spiral.

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type0
> while ‘ennui’ refers to a mental state that is chronic and driven primarily
> by dispositional (personality-based) factors.

Anecdotally I would think it's more prevalent in people with narcissistic
personality traits during depression (speaking of friends here not
acquaintances), maybe it even could be medication dependent . Off course it
ought to be more common but maybe not expressed in other personality types, a
depressed person with schizoid traits probably wouldn't even complain in a
first place, so who knows.

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zerr
This article is not optimized for people with ennui.

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more-entropy
I'm sorry, but this is complete bullshit, written by person who have no idea
of what boredom, depression, apathy is.

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munificent
This article is not very good. Any article on ennui this long that does not
mention depression _at all_ is clearly not thinking deeply or widely about the
topic at hand.

I do think there is a good article about ennui that could have been written.
And, in particular, how to distinguish it from depression. Both feature
anhedonia (life is not pleasurable), monotony, dissatisfaction, and a vague
sadness. To me, the key difference is drive.

With depression, it is as if your own motor is turned off. Everything you do
brings you no pleasure, you can't imagine them bringing you pleasure, and you
don't even have the energy to try. Both the world is empty _and you are too_.

With ennui, the inner component is different. The world feels boring and
unsatisfying, but the internal drive to fix that problem is still present,
just unguided. You know you aren't happy and _want_ to do something about it,
you just don't know _what_.

Ennui is restless where depression is inert.

This makes it a relatively easier problem to solve because it's essentially
external. The feeling is caused by your actions and not a fundamental chemical
imbalance. Addressing it requires understanding your own values and
motivations. What gives your life a sense of meaning? Look back on days that
you felt were particularly gratifying—the ones you want to reflect on on your
deathbed. What made them that way? What did they have in common?

Often, ennui comes from trying to replicate the same actions that brought us
joy in the past without realizing that the context has changed. So there is a
generalization step. It's not that doing X was meaningful. It's that doing X
_because it meant Y_ was.

For example, I used to be a game developer. After about six years, I was
pretty burned out. It wasn't as fun anymore. I kept doing it but felt more and
more ennui. Why did the same activity that used to make me feel gratified no
longer do so?

It's because the underlying context—my own internal state—changed. A big part
of the gratification came from:

* Learning a new domain and seeing my skill in it improve.

* Proving to myself that I could accomplish shipping a real AAA game.

After several years, my knowledge had plateaued, and I had already proven to
myself several times over that I could do it. Those aspects were gone. What I
took away from it is that internal growth—learning new skills—is important for
me to feel that something is meaningful. Once I "max out" in a domain, it is
no longer gratifying for me.

This may not be true for others where their satisfaction comes more from
providing value to others, or demonstrating mastery. I value those too, but in
the absence of learning, they aren't enough.

~~~
defterGoose
The articles _does_ mention depression at the very end but I kept finding
myself thinking the same thing: that there's no use in not calling what you're
describing by it's commonly accepted name. Generally I would say that feelings
of this type that manifest over a period of time definitely qualify as
clinical depression.

~~~
munificent
No, I do believe that there is a significant difference between depression and
the ennui the article talks about. I think the article just fails to clarify
the difference.

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dontbenebby
Just letting yourself be less connected helps IMO.

I ditched Netflix and listen to podcasts for example. I tend to not want to
sit and do nothing while listening so I clean more or end up going for a walk.

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k__
The Corona crisis really helped with my Ennui problem.

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daxfohl
This makes me think of every role Bill Murray has played in the last 20 years.

~~~
vzidex
I recently saw Groundhog Day for the first time and loved it! Definitely a
good example of ennui (at least until the end of the film).

~~~
daxfohl
Check out Rushmore or Lost In Translation

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jungletime
Wanted: Arch Nemesis

------
sschueller
Not to be confused with the dockless mini cars standing in the way everywhere
from Ennu [1].

[1] [https://enuu.ch/](https://enuu.ch/)

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ConradKilroy
Not to gatekeep but this comment was so profound, I cried.

"This makes you realize that you're taking color(vision) for granted. There
are people who not only are colorblind but are completely blind-- blind from
birth. And I'm just sitting here, like, "Oh, I'm so bored." And I'm surrounded
by colors!" -Michael from VSauce

Source: YouTubers React to Colorblind Man Sees Purple for the First Time
[https://youtu.be/FANiL2dPCCg?t=530](https://youtu.be/FANiL2dPCCg?t=530)

Ennui is bullshit. You don't get the privilege/right to say, "I'm bored."
Ever.

~~~
dkersten
Disagree. Boredom is an important part of life. We need boredom to become
creative.

~~~
ConradKilroy
"The day you realize that nothing can stop you, because you are a MAGIC
SKELETON packed with MEAT and animated with ELECTRICITY and IMAGINATION. You
have a cave in your face full of sharp bones and five tentacles at the end of
each arm. YOU CAN DO ANYTHING, MAGIC SKELETON" Source:
[https://twitter.com/ChuckWendig/status/1029345631578587137](https://twitter.com/ChuckWendig/status/1029345631578587137)

