
Zen Magnets Wins CPSC Case - nathannecro
http://zenmagnets.com/march-2016-update-whoa-we-won/
======
trhway
while "war on magnets" may sound silly at first, it is hard to not see the
rationale behind it.

[https://www.aap.org/en-us/advocacy-and-policy/federal-
advoca...](https://www.aap.org/en-us/advocacy-and-policy/federal-
advocacy/Pages/AAP-Alerts-Pediatricians-to-Dangers-of-Magnet-Ingestions.aspx)

" Although these products are labeled and designed for adults, they can easily
find their way into the hands and mouths of children."

Also a fact sheet from the North American Society for Pediatric
Gastroenterology, Hepatology and Nutrition -
[http://www.naspghan.org/files/documents/pdfs/advocacy/2013/N...](http://www.naspghan.org/files/documents/pdfs/advocacy/2013/NASPGHAN%20Magnet%20Ingestion%20Fact%20Sheet%202013.pdf)

I mean nobody keeps rat poison in the open on the desk. If you look at
statistics
([http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24791640](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24791640)
\- quarter of the cases require intervention, and half of those cases are
small magnets) the swallowing of those magnets somewhat comparable to
swallowing of a rat poison (out of about 10K+ cases/years, about 1/3 is
treated medically).

And there are those fury curious vacuums that only look like a labrador or a
poodle - one can only hope that their owners pay enough attention.

~~~
dublinben
>" Although these products are labeled and designed for adults, they can
easily find their way into the hands and mouths of children."

By that argument, any and all potentially dangerous products must be banned.
No power tools, firearms, knives, lighters, or small pieces of matter may be
legally sold or possessed in the United States.

~~~
NeutronBoy
> No power tools, firearms, knives, lighters, or small pieces of matter

These things are not marketed as toys to small children.

~~~
mc32
The main difference is more that small children often put small objects in
their mouths, toy or not. Most tools, knives, etc. are stowed away from the
reach of children, these small magnets can be used on refrigerators or desks,
etc, things these children readily have access to and frequent and
consequently could wrongly ingest them.

~~~
simoncion
As the ALJ found, the problem isn't that the magnets may pose a hazard when
ingested, the problem is the possible lack of sufficient labelling,
instruction, and up-front warning about the hazards of such magnets.

Why do people make tools, knives, or corrosive chemicals inaccessible to those
who don't have enough sense to take care when handling such objects? Because
they are _forewarned_ about the dangers of said objects.

Moreover, the ALJ failed to find any significant evidence that the adults who
are purchasing these magnets are being any more reckless with them than they
are any other hazardous object they might have in their house. From the
article:

> “The Agency was unable to sufficiently and credibly correlate any SREM
> injuries directly to Zen Magnets or Neoballs. The lack of credible evidence
> here is telling.” And regarding the CPSC’s (Epidemiology) Elephant in the
> Room, that easily disproven (yet commonly repeated by media) CPSC injury
> estimate of 2,900 “magnet set” ingestions from 2009 to 2013: “These numbers
> are insignificant to show any specific, identifiable population,
> particularly given the mass amount of magnets purchased and already on the
> market.”

------
wutf
If they win all appeals, can they sue the government for lost revenue?

~~~
DannyBee
Generally? No.

When it comes to suing the US (or a state), just remember the default answer
is "you can't sue the US" (or a state), and every other case is an explicit
congressional exception, like the federal tort claims act, etc.

(see, generally,
[https://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/html/art3frag41_user.html...](https://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/html/art3frag41_user.html#art3_hd119))

~~~
trsohmers
My grandfather was actually the first person to sue the US government (and
particularly interesting for this case, it was against the CPSC) and have it
actually come to vote in congress. My grandfather was the president of Marlin
Toy Company, and in 1972 the CPSC mistakenly kept one of its products (the
Flutter Ball) on the banned products list, and they refused to fix it until
the next version of the list came out.

Surprisingly I can't find much on the case online (Some links below), and my
Grandfather doesn't like to talk about it too much (though I have a box of
legal documents from the case plus some articles). You can find more by
looking up Edward Sohmers and the Marlin Toy Company.

[https://library.cqpress.com/cqalmanac/document.php?id=cqal75...](https://library.cqpress.com/cqalmanac/document.php?id=cqal75-1211392)

[https://books.google.com/books?id=cyU_fdnWhD8C&pg=PA22550&lp...](https://books.google.com/books?id=cyU_fdnWhD8C&pg=PA22550&lpg=PA22550&dq=Marlin+Toy+company+sohmers&source=bl&ots=EX3WNJmmBI&sig=BZwSCWle-
ZV05fMY9zj9eQk_DQ0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiukN-V-
enLAhVC5WMKHRVEAbkQ6AEILDAD#v=onepage&q=Marlin%20Toy%20company%20sohmers&f=false)

------
cmcnally
Good for them! I used to have some similar magnets around my office. I can't
recall the brand. The only issue I had with them was that the outer plating of
the magnets would wear off very easily and made a huge mess. Did anyone else
have this problem?

~~~
covercash
Likely Buckyballs. Here's Zen Magnet's video comparing quality:
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Tka4NUmUo](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Tka4NUmUo)

------
beambot
It says you still can't buy Zen Magnets due to nationwide import ban.... so
why not just start producing them domestically in the US?

~~~
omgwin
It's an import and manufacturing ban.
[https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2014/10/03/2014-233...](https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2014/10/03/2014-23341/final-
rule-safety-standard-for-magnet-sets)

I think the manufacturing part wasn't mentioned because it's not really
feasible to mine neodymium in the US.

------
deelowe
Awesome for them!

