

Mad At Google? Are You Mad Enough To Stop Using It? Can You Even Stop Using It? - mattculbreth
http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/08/10/mad-at-google-the-question-is-are-you-mad-enough-to-stop-using-it-can-you-even-stop-using-it/

======
maqr
This is all so absurd. Why is anyone mad at Google over this Verizon thing?

Is Verizon _so_ evil that just talking to them about the future of networks is
enough for Google to be evil by association? (Actually, don't answer that.)

The argument in this article is that Google touches every part of the
internet, and you can't live without their services even if you wanted to,
because they're so widespread. I can accept that, but wouldn't that also mean
that Google has an interest in a free and neutral internet, because their
services are so widespread?

The very core of Google's business is derived from indexing all of the content
on the internet. Their stated goal is to "index all the world's data". How
exactly would cutting back-room deals for special traffic shaping with Verizon
help Google?

Verizon, however, has a serious interest in preventing competition. They
mostly sell network access at a premium price, which they can only do because
they've gone to great lengths to limit the choices available to consumers.

Verizon seeks to limit access to consumers, while Google seeks to broker
access between the user and whatever data they're searching for.

The more Verizon can stifle the competition and trap users, the more secure
their business is. Google, however, is made more secure by every piece of
user-contributed content that gets created. When Google indexes a new website,
Google is increasing in value. When a user uploads to Youtube, Google is
increasing in value. When someone makes a phone call with Google Voice, Google
is increasing in value.

I can imagine Google providing internet access, but could you imagine Verizon
providing Google-like data indexing services for public use? Remember that
Google killed the phone book. We take it for granted now, but that's hugely
significant. Verizon should be terrified of them providing cheap wireless
communication, but Google need not be terrified of Verizon competing in the
data indexing space.

Verizon needs to be a successful network access provider, and Google wants to
be the hub for all data on the network. It makes perfect sense that they
should be in talks.

~~~
icarus_drowning
Moreover, I've yet to understand most of the arguments against their policy
proposal, beyond disappointment that they excluded wireless internet from
regulation. (Which I think is a good thing _for now_ ).

~~~
jshen
net neutrality is required if we want a free market where someone with a great
idea can compete with Giant Corporation X. A lack of rules which allows Giant
Corporation X to create artificial barriers to entry, which is exactly what a
lack of neutrality will allow, will lead to a market that is not based
primarily on merit.

~~~
icarus_drowning
I didn't speak against net neutrality. I spoke against regulations on wireless
internet to enforce it _at the current time_. (For what its worth, I would be
against any proposal that insisted that net neutrality regulations could
_never_ be implemented).

Tabling the issue for wireless networks for now might be the wrong position.
(I don't think it is, but I could be wrong). But it is hardly the same as
implementing policies that would forever block neutral wireless networks--
most of the critics I've read over the past few days have characterized the
Google/Verizon deal as a total loss of neutrality on wireless networks,
forever. It specifically outlines an _annual_ review of the current policy.

That's hardly language of a "surrender monkey" (as Wired so inarticulately put
it).

~~~
jshen
Most of us find it hard to believe that once such large corporations are able
to create a tiered network there is little chance that it will ever change
given their enormous financial stake in it.

------
sp332
You can get your data exported from most Google services. There are
instructions here: <http://www.dataliberation.org/>

The problem is importing this data into some other service.

~~~
afhof
They don't seem to include a way to export Google Talk conversations.

~~~
sp332
Chats do show up in the gmail web interface. So (and I'm not saying this is
elegant) you could open each chat and Forward it to a real email address, then
save it from there.

------
aneesh
Interesting that he mentioned Android, search, and GMail as services that it'd
be hard to stop using. They all have easy substitutes that are arguably just
as good, or at least close (iPhone, Bing, Yahoo Mail/Hotmail).

The one place where it's really difficult to stop using Google is AdWords. If
you want to buy search ads, Google has a near monopoly, and others can't
compete right now. That's where the real "can you even stop using it?" is.

~~~
JadeNB
> iPhone, Bing, Yahoo Mail/Hotmail

Are we really going to position Apple and Microsoft as the heroes to Google's
villain?

(That sounds like a bit of a troll, but I don't mean it that way; I just mean
that, if you care enough about such matters of principle to boycott Google,
surely you can find something in the current or past behaviour of either to
turn you off it, too.)

~~~
Ardit20
Its about pressure. If Google is stupid enough to make people even contemplate
about alternatives, then they would be going on a slippery slope as it is not
too difficult to switch, to vote with your legs as it were. Sure Microsoft may
be bad, but you have Yahoo search. If you do not like them because of
something they do, you can switch from them too, isn't that what free market
is all about, alternatives, competition on every variable.

But the previous poster is spot on. There are just as good alternatives to all
the services they provide, except perhaps for google maps but that is once in
a while use, but they have a monopoly on advertising on the internet and no
other alternative even compares.

------
jrockway
I am not sure I'd stop using Android if Google became too evil. I don't
particularly depend on the proprietary Google apps for anything, and it's easy
enough to fork, remove references to Google, and recompile. (And yes, I do run
the AOSP version of Android on my phone, so I would lose nothing by doing
this.)

If Google hate becomes something worth caring about, I'm sure CyanogenMod will
have a non-Google Android build in about a day. That's what makes Android
great; it's just software, not an ideology.

------
mahmud
No, No and No.

80% of my business is from Google, and 80% of my business runs on Google.

I can give up the U.S. dollar, airlines, and banking. But not Google.

~~~
smcl
You can give up banking?

------
mmphosis

        su echo x.x.x.x google.com >> /etc/hosts
    

where x.x.x.x is the IP address of the non-Google search engine you wish to
use. ie. ping <http://www.gigablast.com/>

------
zokier
I can only speak of myself, but I don't feel that stop using Google's products
would be that hard. I have already two other e-mail accounts which I use in
different context, and I actually use different clients for each (pine and
mutt via ssh, and gmail's web-interface for gmail). Bing maps is already
better in some places than Google's, so I use them both. I'm not liking
Google's new image search at all, and I'm beginning to think if I should begin
to use Bing's, as it has provided more accurate results (in the cases I have
tried it), and has better UI (imho). The list goes on...

The most problematic thing to replace would atm be Android. Nokia's offerings
aren't quite there yet, Apple would require bit different mindset, and Windows
Mobile is...well Windows Mobile. But I'm not sure if it would be that bad to
step back to bit dumber phones (meaning mainly Symbian here). Although I
haven't even tried any Android device, so maybe it has something amazing what
I haven't realized.

------
mgrouchy
I'm not overly mad at google, but I use DuckDuckGo for most my searches these
days. (now all i need is ddgmail and I would be set)

~~~
markstahler
I genuinely tried Bing when it first came out but it didn't stick. I have been
using DuckDuckGo for a few weeks now and I have changed all my default search
engines to it. Great features (! search and zero click info, not to mention
not storing my search information).

Like you mentioned, Gmail on the other hand is much more difficult to drop. I
spent half hour going through <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1121269>
looking for a decent solution.

------
fierarul
No. No. Yes, if I wanted to but why would I ?

~~~
frossie
I don't disagree with you, but surely the interesting thing is that there is
acknowledgment in essentially mainstream media that there could be Life After
Google. I think about three years ago that notion was almost inconceivable for
a lot of people.

------
rue
If this Net Neutrality thing angers people enough to reconsider their
relationship with Google, good.

Been trying to avoid Google for years now just because it is not wise to
entrust everything to a company. Currently DDG for searches, e-mail handled on
my own server. Never Google Docs. AdBlock, NoScript and cookie management help
too.

Still have a gmail account for reading some Google Groups, which I really do
not do anymore, and a GTalk id because one person on my list has nothing
else...probably time to change these too.

~~~
chc
There's nothing wrong with not wanting to use Google's services, but I don't
see how it's particularly _good_. Do you also avoid entrusting your food
supply to grocery stores and your fuel needs to gas stations? I mean, it's
possible, and some people might like living that way, but avoiding these
things just doesn't stand up to a cost-benefit analysis for most people.

~~~
rue
Do you do all your shopping in one store, buy all from one brand?

The cost of not using Google's services is very low.

~~~
chc
I don't do everything in one place, but I don't avoid specific stores or
brands for fear of "entrusting everything to them" either. I go to whatever
store is best for the things I want and most convenient for me at the time.

In practice, I do about 80% of my grocery shopping at Fresh & Easy, because
its goods are high-quality, its prices on most things are amazing and it is
literally right around the corner from my apartment.

Similarly, I use Google for most of my searching and email because it has the
best products in these areas.

------
hrabago
I think the question "Can you even stop using it?" is closer to "Do you even
have that choice anymore?" rather than "Can you avoid going to Google branded
websites?". There are so many services either owned or somehow connected to
Google that it would take some level of expertise to completely avoid sending
at least some of your data to Google.

From Doubleclick to Google Analytics to reCAPTCHA, you can encounter Google
without ever bringing up google.com or YouTube.

------
Xurinos
Mad at Google? No. Should I be?

Can I stop using it? Well, I use <https://ixquick.com> for search. I like
Google Maps, but there are other alternatives, and I can always grab maps I
care about from the gas station, so it is more a novelty and a convenience
than a need. I do not depend on any Google services, partly out of disliking
the idea of calling out to another server in order for mine to work.

So in a word... yes. But I know there are many people who built their business
using its convenient technologies and would need to find good replacements.
Maybe it is just a matter of marketing; I am sure there are plenty of
alternatives for everything Google provides. What is the fear here? Leaving
our easy comfort zones?

This internet/software stuff is all smoke and dreams. There are better things
to get worried about.

------
vollmond
No, No, and with lots of effort.

Ironically, I almost never use Google search (thanks DDG!), but I have
multiple Gmail accounts, plus Docs, Reader, Wave (though no more I suppose),
Gtalk, Calendar, Android (no desire to use other smartphone OSes). And this is
just personal -- I don't have my own business.

------
RexRollman
I only use two Google products regularly these days: search and Gmail. I would
like to move from Gmail but I haven't found another provider to go to. I used
to like Fastmail but, for some reason, I don't like it that they are now owned
by Opera.

Maybe I just need to hope that someone like Colin Percival gets interested in
starting an e-mail service, as I really like the way he runs TarSnap.

------
jsz0
I'm disappointed in Google but it doesn't really impact their existing
services so I won't stop using them. I certainly won't use whatever services
they end up piggy backing on this deal in a few months when the uproar has
died down. I'm a firm believer things happen for a reason. Google did this
deal for some future project that involves Verizon as the carrier. No doubt in
my mind.

------
code_duck
I haven't had any difficulties stopping using techcrunch!

------
vinhboy
Yes. No. Yes - I am not that important.

~~~
Qz
All I use it for is non-wikipedia search and maps, which I don't use all too
often anyway.

~~~
cornelln
Oh that's it, well that shouldn't be much then...

------
lurkinggrue
This is crazy talk.

------
yanw
Why is Google getting all the heat from this? Any concessions on neutrality in
that non-biding agreement is to appease Verizon, why not get angry at them or
at the other internet companies that stood idly by and let Google handle the
net neutrality burden?

~~~
dschobel
I think it's shocking to a lot of people because Google has long claimed that
"what's good for the internet is good for [Google]". It was something more
concrete than just the nebulous "don't be evil". It stood for support of open-
standards, better infrastructure (such as their work on revising DNS) and none
of the walled-garden bullshit the entrenched players relied on.

To see them compromise those principles on the wireless side of the fence is
hugely disappointing and, frankly, quite puzzling in its apparent short-
sightedness.

~~~
yanw
It's a non-binding, non-changing bullshit agreement.

~~~
dschobel
It represents a very real change in position. Everyone thought, naively
perhaps, that google was going to liberate the mobile phones of america
whether the carriers liked it or not.

This then is a non-aggression pact with the carriers showing that carrier
crippled phones and services are here to stay.

------
gigafemtonano
Google is actually in a unique situation where everyday users could continue
to take advantage of free services and cost Google bandwidth/electricity while
completely ignoring ads.

