
Apple will add 5G to 2020 iPhones to compete with Android, analyst says - octosphere
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/29/apple-iphone-models-to-support-5g-in-2020.html
======
walterbell
Can rural iPhone users manually disable mmWave radios on their local devices,
since there will be no use for the beamforming receiver outside of urban
areas?

On a related topic, 6Ghz WiFi (unlicensed and unmetered) is needed for AR
glasses which won't have the battery power for cellular service,
[https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2019/7/23/20707456/6...](https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2019/7/23/20707456/6ghz-
vlp-wi-fi-tethering-hotspot-apple-google-facebook-microsoft-qualcomm-broadcom-
intel-marvell-hp)

 _> Apple, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, HP, Qualcomm, Intel, Broadcom, and
Marvell ... are petitioning the FCC to approve a new Very Low Power (VLP)
category of Wi-Fi where small, low-power devices like smartphones that
transmit below a certain power threshold (14 dBm EIRP) could traverse the 6GHz
spectrum ... short-range, point-to-point connections between two devices —
think within a room, not across your house. The letter suggests they could
deliver 2Gbps at a distance of 3 meters_

Short-range 6Ghz VLP WiFi would reduce WiFi congestion in urban areas, where
dozens of 2.4Ghz WiFi routers can be visible.

~~~
CamperBob2
There won't be any need to disable the radio for unused bands. Powering down
unused hardware is literally the first thing the engineers do to save battery
life.

Edit: can't reply due to rate-limiting, but in principle, all they have to do
to search for service is power up the receiver briefly, running at a very low
duty cycle. This has no noticeable impact on battery life or any other aspect
of the phone's operation.

~~~
tboughen
But why would the hardware power down if it is constantly searching for a 5G
base station, not find one because of OPs location?

~~~
ndjskska
Mobile networks have more management functions than WiFi, for instance.

If you're in a high density area, the mobile network will push the device to
small range cells (handover), or tell the device which other cells are
available in that area (list of neighbor cells).

However, the smartphone is not required to search for a base station all the
time. It receives hints from the network.

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sandGorgon
A clear indicator that Apple is focusing on markets other than the US.

5g is deploying in China and India and soon in a lot of countries in SE Asia.

The consumption of mobile bandwidth is literally through the roof. Netflix
having a 2.5$ monthly mobile-only plan in India is a clear signalling of that.

~~~
londons_explore
5G is deployed in a lot of cities already, and nearly every android
manufacturer has at least one 5g model.

Being 18 months late to the party will really hurt Apple.

~~~
lttlrck
18 months is less than 1 refresh cycle. How is the average Apple user missing
out by not having 5G now?

~~~
godzillabrennus
They aren't missing out. They aren't buying new iPhones. Apple is missing out
on a lot of revenue but they know their customers will wait for them.

I'm still on an iPhone X and will be until there is a compelling new iPhone.

Switching to android would require paying for a lot of apps that I use
regularly all over again. Not worth it for me.

------
valine
I’m not so sure that most consumers will think “5g is a necessary function.”
Without millimeter wave 5g is only slightly faster than 4g, and millimeter
wave coverage will be worse than WiFi pretty much everywhere but the most
densely populated regions.

~~~
JohnJamesRambo
With flagship phone sales plummeting, the industry hopes 5g will save them. I
really don’t know anyone that has told me they want or need 5g. With current
draconian data plans of just a few gb what use would 5g be to the average
consumer?

~~~
rayiner
> With current draconian data plans of just a few gb what use would 5g be to
> the average consumer?

I have no idea where this argument comes from. Was 4G useless because carriers
stuck with the same data caps we had from the 3G era? Today, the average U.S.
smartphone subscriber uses 6GB/month of cellular data, well below the 20GB+
soft-cap of every provider's unlimited plan:
[https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/10/28/heres-how-much-
sma...](https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/10/28/heres-how-much-smartphone-
data-americans-are-using.aspx).

With 5G, those caps will go up further. Verizon isn't even applying the 22GB
4G throttling limit to 5G yet:
[https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/13/18263593/verizon-5g-servi...](https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/13/18263593/verizon-5g-service-
price-location-launch-date).

~~~
JohnJamesRambo
You couldn’t do what you needed to on 3g since it wouldn’t support video
streaming etc. What killer app does 5g have that 4g doesn’t already do? When
I’m on my phone and have good LTE strength I never find myself saying “I wish
this was downloading faster.” If it was for a home pc sure, but there’s only
so much I need to do on a phone. Maybe I’m being really short-sighted and
people will VR interact soon on 5g.

~~~
jacobwilliamroy
My guess is that everyone is itching to deploy 5G in order to expand the
surveillance (advertising) industry. It seems pretty clear that they want
every object in the world to constantly be observing and reporting images,
sound, temperature, atmospheric pressure, humidity, etc. 5G helps to do this
silently, without your permission. I can choose whether or not my computer can
connect to my IP network. Good luck disconnecting your car or your washing
machine when they each have modem chips soldered into their motherboards.

------
thepangolino
Given the current state of mobile data offering across the globe (how limited
and expensive the offer is), I wouldn’t worry too much about 5G yet.

------
dang
Url changed from [https://www.pymnts.com/apple/2019/three-2020-iphones-will-
su...](https://www.pymnts.com/apple/2019/three-2020-iphones-will-support-5g/),
which points to this.

------
SomeOldThrow
Meanwhile my old SE is going to work just fine....

~~~
trainstaion
atari was where it apple started, surething.

------
olah_1
Just sharing the obligatory cancer scare articles. It's obvious to me that
radiation of all kinds has an effect on us, whether that is non-ionizing or
not. I think a lot more independent research needs to be done in this area,
lest we look back on this time in a similar way to doctors endorsing
cigarettes.

"Bay Area city blocks 5G deployments over cancer concerns"
[https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/10/bay-area-city-
blocks-5g-de...](https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/10/bay-area-city-
blocks-5g-deployments-over-cancer-concerns/)

"Don’t keep cell phones next to your body, California Health Department warns"
[https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/15/dont-keep-cell-phones-
next...](https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/15/dont-keep-cell-phones-next-to-your-
body-california-health-department-warns/)

~~~
rayiner
If you want to know why America has such shitty infrastructure (especially
cities like San Francisco where the density should warrant it), here is
Exhibit A. Environmental studies, aesthetic objections,[1] fake health
concerns, etc. In the 4.6 _years_ Americans spend to prepare the average
Environmental Impact Statement for an infrastructure project, Europeans can
build city-wide subway systems or tunnel through mountains.

Other countries are not going to hold up 5G deployment over fake health
concerns. If we don't want 5G to be _yet another area_ , like transit and
roads, where the US lags woefully behind Europe and Japan, we must fight such
distractions.

[1] Remember when San Francisco held up AT&T fiber deployment in the city for
years with a lawsuit about ugly fiber boxes?
[https://stopthecap.com/2011/06/29/san-francisco-still-in-
sta...](https://stopthecap.com/2011/06/29/san-francisco-still-in-stalemate-
with-att-over-lawn-refrigerators-for-u-verse/)

~~~
Wowfunhappy
> If we don't want 5G to be yet another area, like transit and roads, where
> the US lags woefully behind Europe and Japan

I don’t necessarily disagree with the crux of your point about infrastructure.
However, in the case of 5G, why do we need to “beat” other countries? What’s
the rush?

Great article from The Verge titled “Wait, why the hell is the ‘race to 5G
even a race?” [https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/23/18637213/5g-race-us-
leade...](https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/23/18637213/5g-race-us-leadership-
china-fcc-lte)

~~~
rayiner
For one thing, 5G is going to be necessary to fully realize things like
augmented reality, self-driving cars, and other industries that will make
significant economic contributions. Getting started earlier on those is
better.

For the other--it's embarrassing. I'm embarrassed that Copenhagen is building
a massive new subway system extension for the same money it's costing my state
(Maryland) to build a single suburban light rail line. It indicates moral
shortcomings of the citizenry--inability to set priorities, inability to
cooperate, selfishness, complacency, etc. Same thing with 5G, but add
gullibility and hypochondria to the mix.

~~~
Wowfunhappy
> For one thing, 5G is going to be necessary to fully realize things like
> augmented reality, self-driving cars, and other industries that will make
> significant economic contributions.

How, precisely?

5G won't be anywhere near low-latency enough to actually offload processing
for these types of devices. (Not to mention, I'd really worry about what
happens when a car loses connection.)

> For the other--it's embarrassing.

I appreciate your feelings, but we need to collectively get over ourselves.
"Embarrassment" shouldn't be driving billion dollar decisions.

If we need to channel the emotion, let's do where the needs are explicit, like
public transit.

~~~
ckris
A lot of the 5g connection to drones, self-driving and artificial intelligence
is bullshit. But there is some connection in the sense that they are sort of
both unknown. In theory if you had some sort of early self-driving personal
rapid transit system, or some freight variety, it would make things easier if
you knew you had enough bandwidth and low latency to effectively remote
control them.

~~~
Wowfunhappy
> it would make things easier if you knew you had enough bandwidth and low
> latency to effectively remote control them.

I suppose it can't hurt as an additional safety feature, but if we're
considering this a requirement for the technology, that makes me very scared,
given the inherent unreliability of _any_ type of cellular connection.

