
Why 30 year old entrepreneurs are not over the hill - allanscu
http://www.ycreject.com/2011/05/why-30-year-old-entrepreneurs-are-not.html
======
HedgeMage
I don't think it's about money as much as lifestyle -- the OP misses this
entirely by assuming that both entrepreneurs are single and without children.

Something interesting I observed at Startup Weekend here in Indy last fall:

When it came time to form teams, all the young'uns grouped with one another,
and the four of us codgers with responsibilities worked together. The line
wasn't drawn according to age: there was one 30+ guy in another group, but he
was single; two of the four members of my group were still in our 20's, but we
were the primary sources of income for families with children, and I think
that led us to fit in better with our 40+ cofounders.

With a few exceptions, I'd find it uncomfortable -- if not unworkable --
cofounding with the bouncy 20-something who has no outside responsibilities.
When team building means getting drunk together on a Wednesday night, work
hours are noon-8pm, and the company culture is low on planning and high on
"nothing to lose", a company is just not going to be a good fit for me.

I'm fine with economic sacrifice, and with working hard. Because I'm looking
for a new startup to join, I've tooled down my living expenses such that I
could do an extended period somewhere between the two guys in that article.
Because I've always been a hard worker, I've made my work schedule part of my
family's life: I work a normal 9-3:30 in the office (currently home office,
but I'm flexible), then after school, my son brings his homework to my office
and we do our work together for a couple of hours. I tend to get in another
hour or two in the evenings after he goes to sleep. I never get drunk, let
alone on a weeknight when I have to get a first grader up for school in the
morning. I'll never end up in an incubator because I'm not changing my son's
school, leaving his speech therapy program, leaving our dojo, and generally
up-ending his whole world in exchange for a few months of help for my startup.

I often meet people at my stage in life (kids, responsibilities, etc.) who say
they don't do start-ups because they perceive "bouncy without
responsibilities" to be the expectation of all startups. Their loss. I have to
look a little harder, but I find other "codgers" out there in the entrepreneur
community. I have to wonder if the people held back by the stereotype really
have whatever that spark is that makes us take risks on new things anyway.

Oh, and I almost forgot.... GET OFF MY LAWN!

~~~
ojbyrne
There are significantly more "non-traditional" families today than there were
50 years ago and assuming that older entrepreneurs had to be in the same kind
of traditional situation (married, kids, house in the suburbs) isn't much
better than assuming only young people can start companies.

There are dual income, no kids couples, there's divorced people, there's never
been married people.

It would be great if everyone stops assuming that everyone else is the same as
you.

~~~
jacques_chester
> It would be great if everyone stops assuming that everyone else is the same
> as you.

This seems unnecessarily snarky. OP didn't say "all > 30 year olds have these
issues", he was talking about his own experience and how it shapes his startup
aspirations.

Kids & Mortgage is still very common.

~~~
ojbyrne
I agree that I was overly snarky, though only slightly. I disagree that Kids &
Mortgage is still very common. Maybe just common, and even then, there's often
additional nuance (second marriage, renting not mortgage, etc.)

------
icey
If you're <a thing> who has bought into some blogger saying you aren't cut out
to be an entrepreneur because of <aforementioned thing>, then maybe you aren't
cut out to be an entrepreneur.

One of the very best things about being an entrepreneur is that you get to
ignore what everyone else thinks qualifies or disqualifies you. The only thing
that matters is what you make (or more accurately, what you do with what you
make).

------
dstein
Not everyone over 30 has a wife, kids, 2 cars, is in debt up to their
eyeballs, and lives downtown San Francisco.

I'm over 30, single, own a home, and am bootstrapping a software/consulting
business. Between income from my business, savings, and profits in the stock
market (I day trade on the side) I have almost unlimited runway. I don't have
to pander to investors and I have the time to really sink my teeth into some
hard problems. The crazy thing is when I do the math at the end of the year,
I'm not even that far behind where I'd be if I had a day job and I'm still
just getting started. What risk?

~~~
decultured
I am in basically the same situation: Over 30, single, own a home,
bootstrapping a business. I have steady and flexible part time consulting work
I can use to pay the bills if I need to, but rarely do. I have 2 room-mates I
share my house with that pay 100% of the mortgage and a large chunk of
utilities. I have practically 0 debt (other than the house). I have worked at
several startups already, and know better than many first-timers what is
involved. If anything I believe I am better off starting a company than a
young 22 year old.

One important difference though: Like another commenter said, I am not as
eager to accept any investor terms thrown my way, nor am I gauging my success
on investor interest. I am in this to make a profitable, successful business
venture, and will only accept investment on good terms when it will directly
aid in the growth of my company. Perhaps that is why VCs might avoid older
entrepreneurs, we are more cautious of investment deals, and don't judge
success by those alone.

~~~
keeptrying
I"m over 30 and single too. But I dont own a home - so I do have substantial
savings. What kind of business are you starting ?

I've been doing some customer development in the area of travel. I quit 3
weeks ago.

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MatthewB
Obviously, Arrington's article was just a fluff piece. 30 is not over the
hill. 25 is also definitely not peaking. It is true that a 25 year old is more
willing to take a risk on a startup than a 30+ year old (which I have learned
first hand), but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It's all about the
person. I'm 27 and am about to take a huge risk with a startup. Maybe i'm
still in the "peak age" but I don't think at 30 I would think any differently.
It's all about passion.

~~~
ares2012
Agreed.

It's not consumer internet but I always look at how Colonel Sanders made his
mark after he turned 65 as inspiration for the future:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonel_Sanders>

------
hunterp
At 28.8 I am a better decision maker. I have better life skills, I am better
at making friends, making social connections and making business connections.

As a coder, I no longer like coding for the sake of coding. I like coding
because it is a means to an end. My powers of abstraction are greater. After 2
years of moderately successful solopreneurship, I fully understand the
absolute need to ally with other people.

I am able to cut through people's bullshit easier. When I meet a potential
business parter/coder I am more quickly able to see exactly how strong they
are, what kind of drive they have, and ultimately I am more quick (and
confident) to tell them to fuck off if they are a liability. As a 20-25 year
old, I had no confidence and could not speak up for myself.

I focus solely on projects that I enjoy with people that I enjoy working with.
My ability to create potentials for happiness and avoid pitfalls is stronger
than ever. Physically, I am stronger than ever, and I eat much much healthier.

I am more positioned than ever before to hit a project out of the ballpark.

Finally, at 28.8 I realize that my ageism is just another prejudice that was
hindering my ability to take advice. Now, my mind is not closed. It is more
open than ever before. Age has worked well for me, and young peers, it will
work well for you too.

------
chr15
Two advantages that older entrepreneurs have is domain expertise and industry
connections. For example, I know some people who started companies that
contract out to the US government and make a killing doing it. I don't think
an under-25 entrepreneur would be too successful doing that unless they're
well connected (involves writing proposals, which most 20-somethings aren't
going to be good at) .

My observation is that most young entrepreneurs stick to building consumer
internet products that don't require a lot of domain expertise.

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sdoowpilihp
I would argue that this "over the hill by 30" mentality permeates a lot of
things in our culture. I know I hear it a lot in the sports I am involved in
(climbing, backpacking, etc.)

Yet there are at least 1-2 guys well past 30 (likely in their 50's) at the
climbing gym I go to that could out climb most of us twenty-somethings. There
are also a healthy number of successful entrepreneurs well past 30.

I would posit that more than anything, being "over the hill" is a frame of
mind.

------
hessenwolf
Flamebait.

I cannot be bothered, in the 14th hour of my workday, to find the reference on
the internet but the last time I heard anything the average age was thirty
six.

The average VC victim is in their twenties, sure, because they have no
capital.

------
pbreit
I'm 41 with a wife and kid (another on the way) and not crazy technical:
<http://pricetack.com>

------
sdh
1\. startups are not risky. there's plenty more

2\. it's a lot harder to negotiate terms with an experience entrepreneur.

3\. over 30s can hire under 30s.

4\. is it techcrunch or techtroll?

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sfalbo
I'm just about to hit 30 and taking more entrepreneurial risks. I feel like
the knowledge I've gained in the business world is immensely helpful.

In general, it seems that the older you get, the opportunity costs for risks
increase. Not just monetarily speaking but also other things you may have to
cut back on - family, friends, etc.

~~~
chriswoodford
i'm in the same boat and struggling with the same issues. on the verge of 30
it becomes more of a game of weighing the pros and cons.

does this startup idea have enough potential that it's worth leaving my full
time job? and if so, how am i going to keep paying these damn student loans?
etc.

~~~
keeptrying
True but think about when you turn 40, how are you going to feel about the
work you did during the most productive years of your life ?

Your remember that 30th birthday. I bet turning 40 is going to be much much
worse.

------
tomsaffell
I'm a 31 year old entrepreneur. Here are my rough living costs. I've done them
on a personal basis. The household costs (including my wife) are double this.
I'm not saying I'm typical, but I am saying that it doesnt _need_ to be as
expensive as the article claims.

    
    
      Rent/Mortgage/Prop Tax: $765 (single family home in SF, including office)
      Utilities: $80 (fast Internet)
      Insurance (car, home): $60 (free health plan through wife)
      Transportation: $10 (bike)
      Gas: $50
      Food: $150
      Fun: $200
      Clothing: $50 (and it shows..)
      Grand Total: $1365
    

And I'm not living on Ramen!

~~~
jyu
I'm jealous. 28 and in NYC here.

    
    
      Rent: $1700 (tiny studio in Manhattan)
      Utilities: $200 (electric and FIOS)
      Transportation: $120 (subway + occasional taxi)
      Food: $600
      Fun: $400
      Maid: $400
      Clothing: $100
      Grand Total: $3,520

~~~
exit
you need a maid for your tiny studio? you spend $100 in clothing every month?

~~~
dasil003
$400 dollars a month for said tiny studio? How about learn to pick up after
yourself and pay someone $50 to clean the bathroom and dust once a month.

------
abbasmehdi
His "data-driven" numbers are misinformed because they're raw. They just look
at how many 20-year-olds started a company and took it to success vs. how many
30-year-olds did the same - just raw numbers.

They don't look at the percentage of 30+ people who succeed out of the total
in their age group who attempted a technology-startup vs. the same for those
in their 20s; and if the difference is statistically significant. If he tells
me that 20% of people in their 20s succeed and only 5% in their 30s succeed
then he'd have a point, I bet he does not.

------
rythie
Didn't Arrington start Techcrunch at 35 anyway?

~~~
allanscu
Yes. That's about the age he started TC.

------
ramynassar
Also not considering the 30 somethings (such as myself) who spent a few years
working for companies in order to save up and get some experience BEFORE
taking the "plunge". Now I have a great portfolio, some cash and some
experience that can all help me work towards this kind of goal. Doesn't
necessarily put me a head of a new grad but surely doesn't put me behind
either!

------
hsmyers
If one actually reads 'Zen Mind: Beginner's Mind' it should be abundantly
clear that enlightenment can come to anyone at any age. That said the primary
reason why the 30 year old is not over the hill is that he or she can still
see the 60 year old just short of the summit (and neither can see that there
are an endless number of summits to come...)

------
robbles
Why does the 30 yr old spend more on gas (in the initial estimate)?

~~~
nl
As a 35 yo:

I used to be able to walk/catch bus/ride lots of places. Now I have a kid it's
no longer possible, and things like school drop-offs double my commuting
distance.

------
ilkandi
30/40 year old entrepreneur is more likely to be married or in a stable
relationship; fun is Netflix ($5 a month) or streaming movies (free). Use
wife's health insurance. $400 a month on transportation, really? Anyone with a
wife/gf knows they don't travel that much anymore. No reason for utilities to
be higher either. Food is way lower, older people are more likely to cook
their own and make smarter supermarket choices. Being older and boring is very
cheap.

If working from home eg programming, having your own place can mean that you
sleep better and are more focused on doing the work, rather than being
distracted by whose turn it is to do the dishes or joining in your roommates'
post-bar parties. Of course, having kids or being a caregiver would change the
person's profile, regardless of age. Just a few counter-thoughts.

------
dylanrw
The younger crowd is also more impressionable than the older crowd. Older
investors I bet <3 to play sage and school the youngins' and the first step to
get them to listen is to compliment them. lol

------
nickthedart
One thing missed by this article - the house price boom over the last few
years means that people who bought before the boom should have much lower
outgoings for housing. A 30-something with much of their house paid off is in
that respect in a better position to take risks than a 20-something paying
rent and perhaps wondering if they ought to save for the downpayment/deposit
on a house purchase. Another issue is that learning how to cook healthy food
quickly and cheaply can take years to learn and your food costs can diminish
with age.

------
kayoone
man, suddenly i feel old with 28...where has my live gone ? ;)

~~~
thwarted
Turn around, it's ahead of you.

------
amorphid
I'm 36 and just getting warmed up!

------
michaelochurch
When someone says that he will only fund or work with people in their 20s,
run. He's looking for a young, inexperienced person who doesn't know his
rights and of whom he can take advantage.

Where there is some truth in this is that a 30-year-old first-time
entrepreneur usually cannot get terms from a VC that would merit leaving a
more stable job. A person of that age with a decent career is unlikely to have
much interest in the terms (participating preferred, easy to fire the
founders, giving up a lot of board seats, low salary) available to a no-name
first-time entrepreneur. If someone who is 35 is willing to take a
3x-liquidation preference and participating preferred, do you really want to
fund him? Obviously no, because he either lacks decent options or doesn't
understand business, neither of which is a good sign for someone of that age.
On the other hand, there are plenty of 22-year-olds with a lot of talent but
no sense of what they're worth or what rights they have.

~~~
a5seo
Considering that it takes 7+ years to build a substantial, successful company,
if you found a startup when you're 25 and take 7 years to exit, you WILL be >
30 when you're done and available to work on startup #2.

So by this "under 30 only" logic, you would never fund successful serial
entrepreneurs. Great idea. :-/

~~~
ares2012
Well said.

------
VB6_Foreverr
Young bull viewing a herd of cows up the hill says to old bull: "Quick let's
run up and ride a cow"

Old bull replies : "Let's walk up and ride 'em all"

