
About Those Air Cushions in Amazon Packages - lobster_johnson
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/12/air-cushions/511487/?single_page=true
======
developer2
> frustrated customers on forums discussing how many air-filled cushions they
> were getting

> while deflated air cushions can be recycled, many cities won’t collect them
> curbside

Pop them, put them in recycling. It's plastic, it's not my job to deal with
the fallout. Either it's recyclable and I've done all I can, or it's the
retailers' or cities' problem. The idea that there are "frustrated customers"
is beyond me. Is this really what ordinary citizens sit around obsessing over?
I just don't get it; this would be concern #10,056 on my list of priorities.

~~~
akanet
This is very irresponsible. The reason soft plastics are unrecyclable curbside
in San Francisco is that they pose a very real danger to the machines that do
recycling sorting. This is possible to overcome with greater manual filtering
of recyclable materials, but Recology currently does not have the funds for
it. Putting soft plastics in curbside recycling at the moment does nothing but
make recycling worse for everyone.

~~~
hoorayimhelping
To put in tech terms: This is horrible UX and it's no surprise to me that
recycling isn't very effective. Asking your end users to deal with your
internal complexity doesn't work in software or in recycling.

I want to help out, really I do, but I have more important things to worry
about than which type of plastic goes in which bin. Hell, I'm happy to put the
right kind of thing in the right bin if they made it clear which is which and
why. But they don't do a very good job of communicating to me why this is
important. They just say "recycle properly" then try to make you feel
irresponsible and like a bad citizen for not knowing the proper way to do it
based on some opaque and arcane process.

If you want people to help out, make it easy for them to feel like they're a
part of it. The rules around recycling do the opposite - make you feel like
you're harming things if you don't do things exactly right. Not a very
empowering feeling at all.

~~~
blowski
Much innovation in the last 20 years has been finding ways to get your
customers to do work for free that you previously paid employees to do
instead.

For example, self-service checkouts in supermarkets, fast food, building a
holiday package, etc.

Recycling is the same. They have 'outsourced' much of the job to local
government and consumers.

~~~
summarite
That's not really the case. It's simply a really hard problem and that's
easiest to address early on (recycle somewhat right) than to try and filter
useful things out of shredded sludge.

~~~
blowski
It's a really hard problem that big companies show no signs of helping to
solve because they have no economic interest in doing so. They use whatever
packaging helps their short-term profits without consideration of long-term
environmental damage.

It's a typical externalities problem - the full cost of using some types of
packaging is not paid by the one doing the packaging.

------
krapp
I had to package and tape boxes at an Amazon fulfillment center over peak
season one day.

One of the "problems" I found with the process is the system tells you the
size of box to use. You're not allowed to use a smaller size, even if it would
work, only that size or larger. It also tends to overestimate the size of the
item, so many boxes wind up with a lot more empty space than would be
necessary, and more packing.

I'm sure this bias is intentional, but I found it odd at the time.

~~~
somethingsimple
Sorry for going off-topic here, but I'm curious. You say you "had to" work a
fulfillment center over peak season. Were you an engineer at Amazon at the
time?

I'm asking because I've been told that Amazon makes engineers work at their
fulfillment centers when it's peak season. If that's true, are people paid
extra to do so?

~~~
krapp
No, I actually literally just work in a fulfillment center at the moment. I
moved near Austin, TX, Amazon was hiring, and I needed _something_ to have
health insurance and start saving up to pay off my student loans (for a
business application programming degree, ironically.)

I would like to be an engineer there but I think I'm underqualified for most
of those positions. I learn what I can about the software and the processes
when I can, though.

~~~
mabbo
There's a very rare path from FC associate to the software side at Amazon.
I've met a few people who've done it. This includes a senior principle
engineer and an L8 director of software.

~~~
krapp
I did find their internal Twitter clone and notice that it was open source. If
I could find a way to contribute to it without violating Amazon's policies I'd
consider it.

------
vinhboy
These little air bags makes a lot of sense to me, I wonder why it took them so
long to become popular. How did everyone live through the packing peanuts
phase and not realize this is a much simpler solution?

~~~
justinator
the last package peanuts I seem to remember finding in a package were
disposable by putting them in compost, which seems like an advantage over
plastic bags.

~~~
waterphone
I haven't seen anyone else using it yet, but iFixit uses a paper/cardboard
lattice/expanded mesh as packing material.

~~~
spilk
If we're talking about the same thing, I see electronic component vendors like
Digikey/Mouser/etc. using that paper mesh a lot.

------
pedalpete
I think there are two opportunities for the environmental effects of the air
cushions.

1) Re-use rather than recycle: What if you could let the air out at home, open
up the bag, stuff it with other bags, and the outside of the bag had a postage
paid stamp. It goes back to the company that made the bag so it can be re-
used.

2) Make them out of compostable plastic. Much simpler than above, probably the
better way.

The key is that these air cushions don't need to last (likely) more than a few
days. What can we do so that they have as little impact as possible.

They may be better than the packing peanuts or other substitutes, but there is
still opportunity to improve.

~~~
ekzy
They should just ship with reusable boxes. Better boxes with inner
protections, where you would get some kind of credit if you post/bring it back
empty, or reuse for personal mail. Maybe we should only be allowed to send
packages with these boxes

~~~
uxp
Reminds me of a European grocery store. As an American, I was confounded to
see a lack of bags at nearly any store I visited that wasnt a tourist gift
shop my first time I ventured across the Atlantic. Then it started to make
more sense than the garbage-cycle we have over here.

~~~
lucaspiller
In most EU countries you need to pay for plastic* bags now, so they often
aren't on display to make sure people pay - you just need to ask the cashier.

*And a lot have starch bags, which break if you try and put more than two milk bottles in or anything sharp.

------
bwang29
My apartment complex has a large delivery bin area and I always wish I can
leave the packaging boxes and padding/cushions in that area and only bring
back the content of the box (provided that nothing is sensitive and nobody is
watching). Would it be great if the delivery person can unbox the item at the
delivery location with a fee and then bring the box back for recycling?

~~~
madeofpalk
I struggle with a similar problem - I use a weekly food delivery service that
delivers in a rather large polystyrene box and two ice packs. They offer to
take last weeks when they deliver to recycle them, but leaving it out is
rather difficult to do in my large apartment complex so I have to resort to
always leaving them in the garbage room and I feel terrible for not recycling.

~~~
MaxLeiter
Out of curiosity, are you talking about Blue Apron? I could benefit from a
similar solution

~~~
madeofpalk
Youfoodz (horrific name, great service) actually. Delivers whole fresh meals
rather than raw ingredients [http://youfoodz.com](http://youfoodz.com)

I've used HelloFresh in Australia, a competitor/alternative to Blue Apron and
the polystryene box they use is much much smaller because it only contains the
small meat items. The Youfoodz box is _much_ bigger
[https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0506/7861/files/Blog-
Zarah...](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0506/7861/files/Blog-
Zarah.jpg?224189824513611957)

~~~
rmccue
HelloFresh (AU) recently switched [0][1]: they now use WoolCool (compostable &
recyclable), plus gel ice packs (cut open and dispose of gel, recycle packet).
Also means you don't need to return the boxes, which is handy in an apartment
building.

[0]: [https://www.hellofresh.com.au/recycle-your-hellofresh-
packag...](https://www.hellofresh.com.au/recycle-your-hellofresh-packaging/)
[1]: [https://support.hellofresh.com.au/hc/en-
us/articles/21774766...](https://support.hellofresh.com.au/hc/en-
us/articles/217747667-What-is-your-recycling-policy-)

------
cperciva
I haven't seen any of these for years -- my Amazon packages always come with
crumpled paper keeping things in place. Now I'm curious; does Amazon use
different packaging in different locations? (I'm in BC, Canada.)

~~~
agumonkey
Differences in weight maybe ?

~~~
semicolon_storm
I'm betting this is it. My packages that heavy/dense enough to potentially pop
air cushions if dropped seem to all use crumpled paper.

------
corndoge
"Something I didn't quite know how to dispose of"

Is it just me or can you not just pop them and throw them in the trash

~~~
DiabloD3
Because they have a recycling symbol on them, yet most recyclers (inc. mine)
specifically say do not recycle thin film (such as these) even if they have a
symbol on them, because it gums up their shit.

So, yeah, a bit irksome.

~~~
slededit
Its not a "recycling symbol" its a Resin Identification Code [1]. I Imagine
the confusion is intentional. You can use it to assist with recycling if you
know which types of plastics your town can handle and what the numbers
correspond to. The mere fact the symbol exists is meaningless as far as
recycling goes.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resin_identification_code](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resin_identification_code)

------
WalterBright
I loathe styrofoam, it's messy and hard to get rid of. The air bags are a huge
improvement. Just stab them with a knife, and they take up no space in the
garbage.

~~~
tw04
OMG this, especially in dry climates. I _HATE_ packing peanuts with a passion.

~~~
chipperyman573
What's so bad about them specifically in dry climates?

~~~
ryukafalz
Probably their tendency to stick to anything and everything when static
electricity is involved.

------
walrus01
You see inflatable shipping air pillows, I see a new low cost production and
unique marketing/sales method for "canned air":
[http://mashable.com/2016/05/01/australia-air-can-
china/](http://mashable.com/2016/05/01/australia-air-can-china/)

polluted dystopian future here we come!

~~~
buckhx
Perri-Air

------
devy
Whether this is actually a progression over B&M stores is a different topic.
But the amount of waste (most of these packaging materials are not being
properly recycled. I do, but most of my neighbors don't) this $5.6 billion
industry produced is astonishing.

It's such a wasteful industry that China Post actually came up with laws and
regulations ordering carriers to reduce wastes by simplifying packaging for
online ordered goods just starting late 2016[1]

Anecdotally, my friends in China told me that some of their double singles day
items came in thin poly packs that without air cushions and most of the
electronics are shipped with retail packaging as is and without an outer
carton box.

I think U.S. should follow suit.

[1]:
[http://www.spb.gov.cn/dtxx_15079/201608/t20160812_826406.htm...](http://www.spb.gov.cn/dtxx_15079/201608/t20160812_826406.html)

------
mikestew
My dog loves the air packs, to the point that I can barely get a package in
door without him grabbing at it. He'll open the package, pull the air packs
out, pop them and walk away. The novelty must be wearing off, as he's been
leaving unpopped ones lately.

So, unlike packing peanuts, we get _some_ secondary use out of air packs.

~~~
pmiller2
Aren't you afraid he'll try to eat them?

~~~
gumby
Polyethylene is inert so I wouldn't worry much.

~~~
pmiller2
Inertness is kind of the problem. They can really plug things up.

------
brodie78382
I had no idea this is a widespread concern. Over the course of years, I have
kept every box and the shipping materials under the presumption that I would
reuse it all at some point. Only flaw in my logic is that I order way more
stuff than I ship out. This, combined with my laziness, has resulted in a
spare room in the house now being known among friends and family as "The Box
Room", which was full wall to wall, floor to ceiling with empty boxes and
hundreds of those air cushions of varying style and size.

~~~
justinclift
Is there a recycling collection program in your area? eg something that
collects cardboard along with household waste

If so, that seems like an easy way to start reducing the box count. :)

------
eridius
> _At the time, bubble wrap was invented for use as wallpaper._

How would that work? Nobody wants wallpaper that they have to replace each
week because it keeps popping.

~~~
alex-
[http://m.mentalfloss.com/article.php?id=13092](http://m.mentalfloss.com/article.php?id=13092)

Looks like they tried textured wallpaper and green house insulation before
packing. Maybe it was a lot harder to pop in the wallpaper version?

~~~
anexprogrammer
It works surprisingly well as cheap insulation. Put the bubble side to the
glass and limit accidental popping. Ideal for garages and sheds!

Even seen it recommended for cheap double glazing for those of limited means
or renting.

------
greggman
Amazon does it different in Japan. They put items on a stiff piece of
cardboard the same size as the box they will eventually put it in. Then shrink
wrap the items and the cardboard. Then they glue / rubber cement the bottom of
the cardboard to the shipping box.

It seems like it uses less material but the boxes are designed to be torn open
like a FedEx envelope which means they are not reusable which seems wastful

~~~
brodie78382
I've gotten Amazon packages like this here in the US, but it's not a frequent
occurrence. I prefer this method because aside from the shrink-wrap,
everything else is recyclable cardboard.

------
jhanschoo
I don't remember the source, but I remember reading somewhere that using only
standardized boxes was an innovation that results in cheaper shipping of the
same products than if they were packaged in irregular boxes instead.

~~~
ThomPete
Probably the book The Box although that was about shipping in general.

------
godmodus
i just stab them with a fork and deflate them here in germany before putting
the deflated baggies into the yellow bag, and the box into the paper bag. not
sure what's all the fuss is about.

greener planet, happier people everyone wins.

a real issue would be making better use of the space. i once got shipped a 10
liter box that contained a single zippo lighter.

------
userbinator
It's puzzling to see people not knowing what to do with what are essentially
free plastic bags. You can deflate them and use them like you would any other
bag, keep them inflated and continue using them as cushions, etc. It's not
like they take much space deflated anyway. Recycling is good, but reuse is
even better.

------
radicalbyte
There are machines out there which create custom packaging:

[http://boxondemand.com/](http://boxondemand.com/)

------
dclowd9901
Easy solution: require companies that produce waste products to also fashion a
waste recovery arm. Force them to build externalities into their business
models from the get go. I'm sure they'll figure out the most efficient way to
manage it.

~~~
thekevan
The article says they are recyclable but most localities don't do them, they
have to be taken to the grocery store & deposited with bags.

Why would you target every small business with this expense?

~~~
azernik
The producer would be the manufacturer; the mandate could either fall directly
on the manufacturer, or just require small businesses to arrange with the
manufacturer for recycling.

~~~
djrogers
If the mandate fell on the manufacturer, do you think they'd just absorb the
cost out of he goodness of their hearts?

~~~
dclowd9901
No, of course not. That's the entire point. The cost needs to be captured
_somewhere_ in the private chain because right now it's just an externality
that no public entity wants to deal with or can deal with.

------
jslabovitz
This past summer, I ordered a container of household cleaner (16oz bottle with
spray pump) from Amazon. Surprisingly, it arrived with _no packaging
whatsoever_ \-- the bottle of cleaner was taped to a small piece of cardboard
that contained the shipping label.

Not surprisingly, the bottle was empty upon arrival, its contents having
leaked out during shipment.

I filed a complaint and they resent the product. The next shipment of the
cleaner came wrapped in plastic bags, inside a traditional cardboard box
(though no air cushions). I guess Amazon realized their experiment in
minimization didn't work out all that well.

------
bitJericho
As an eBay customer, where the cost is usually a dollar or two cheaper, I find
packaging is never a concern because robots aren't packaging my stuff.

------
disposablezero
I stab them with my keys to let the air out and recycle at the store with
other plastic material, since the local waste company doesn't recycle bags or
film at all. It seems a shame considering how much plastic ends up in
landfills, water ways, the ocean (great garbage patches in the gyres) and
basically on every beach in the world. [0,1] Literally, (no pun intended), the
oceans need a million or so plastic-skimming aquatic Roombas to undo the
anthropogenic-damage just in the oceans.

Btw: I'm wondering if anyone here recycles plastic using a filament maker for
a 3d printer, either DIY or commercial, and how well that works.

0\. [https://news.vice.com/topic/pacific-garbage-
patch](https://news.vice.com/topic/pacific-garbage-patch)

1\. [https://video.vice.com/en_us/video/garbage-
island/563b9c912a...](https://video.vice.com/en_us/video/garbage-
island/563b9c912aab5c416bc75039)

~~~
disposablezero
Also, another note:

Waste sorting and recycling regulations need to be continually ratcheted up
because a few bins isn't working (ever see the disaster of the composting,
recycling and landfill bins at Costco?). Do like Stanford does: have separate
bins (up to 5) but also divert more of the waste stream for recyclables,
composting, etc. with pre-landfill processing. Left to their own devices,
people rarely voluntarily make changes which are vital to more sustainable
ecology.

It seems also that at some point in the future, it may become economical to
mine landfills for materials when scarcity drives prices high enough.

------
jlarocco
I don't really care what they use, as long as they use something!

A few months ago they shipped me a camera lens, external hard drive, and some
other smaller products in a giant box with no padding whatsoever. The lens and
hard drive boxes had plenty of styrofoam, so fortunately nothing was damaged,
but I made sure to complain.

~~~
akx
I'd assume they knew the lens and hard drive boxes were internally padded.
That's still no excuse for a large unpadded box where things can jostle
around.

------
9erdelta
If Amazon made it so that you can drop boxes and packing material off a
lockers, I would do it. Definitely a first world problem, but yeah the boxes
and packing material backing up my garage is getting out of hand. The
materials are in pristine condition and it feels so wasteful to pop/crush
them.

------
niyazpk
Air cushions work well for me. I have a 4 year old and a 2 year old. When any
amazon shipment arrives, I distract them with the air-cushions and put away
the items delivered. Meanwhile kids jump on and burst the air-cushions, and I
am left to deal with the remaining plastic.

------
agentgt
_> not to mention that stores in the U.S. use some 100 billion plastic bags
every year_

It is amazing how many people still do not use reusable tote bags.

If your like me and you forget to bring them or put them back into the car one
way to remember is to put them on your coat rack or next to your master
grocery list (ie a pad of paper you fill out during the week).

Even if I forget the bags I will often buy a new tote bag at the store.... in
practice the more bags I have the less I seem to forget them (ie spares in the
car).

I'm incredibly lazy so I have to imagine many others can do it.

~~~
x1798DE
I'm dubious on the value of reusable tote bags. For one thing, I pretty
heavily re-use plastic bags that I get, anyway. I use them to bring my lunch
to and from work, I use them as laundry and shoe-bags when traveling (to keep
dirty things separate from clean clothes in a single bag), and then I (and
everyone I've ever met) use them as trash can liners for small trash cans.

Given the large amount of additional resources it takes to create one of these
reusable tote bags, and the fact that you need to wash them occasionally, it's
not clear to me that they are a net benefit, even if you always know ahead of
time that you are going to the store and always remember to bring them with
you.

~~~
agentgt
In my experience a single reusuable tote bag can carry 8x of a typical grocery
store plastic bag. We have bags that are 6 years old and probably been used
more than 200 times. They are polypropylene bags which apparently are often
made from recycled bags anyway.

As for reusing plastic bags I do that as well as inevitable you will pick up
some.

As for washing bags I almost never do because almost everything put in the bag
is in some other container.

At least you have the option with reusable bags to clean them and thus could
pre remove residues and toxins.

With plastic bags you might be exposed to various toxins (albeit probably at
low levels). Just pickup and smell new plastic bags if you don't believe me.
Ideally you shouldn't smell anything but I almost always do which means
something volatile is being released.

The other issue is plastic bags aren't just bad because they take oil and
energy to make... they are pretty awful for wild life. I have actually had to
help turtles in the Charles River get out of plastic bags.

Apparently poly bags take 11x what it takes to make a single plastic bag [1].
But this again doesn't take into account how much you can overload a reusable
bag with out them breaking and previously mentioned points (as well as being
far more comfortable to hold on to... I just love how plastic bags cut off
blood supply to fingers).

As for paper bags... they rip and suck in the rain.

[1]: [http://www.marketwatch.com/story/are-reusable-bags-worse-
for...](http://www.marketwatch.com/story/are-reusable-bags-worse-for-
environment-than-plastic-2014-01-09)

------
nocoder
The issue I think is amazon has boxes in a few standard sizes. As a result for
many products, they end up shipping in much larger boxes. I think it is
economical to procure large amount of boxes in few standard sizes vs. have
small quantities of many different boxes. This does lead to increase wastage
though.

------
usaphp
> "At the time, bubble wrap was invented for use as wallpaper. That trend
> never caught on, but the material’s use as protective packaging took off.
> Before bubble wrap, the most common options for cushioning goods in transit
> were sawdust, newspaper, and rubberized horsehair."

------
libeclipse
I once ordered a micro SD card off Amazon.

The box it came in looked like it contained an Xbox: it was huge! Upon opening
it and removing all the Air Cushions™, there was a tiny little envelope at the
bottom with the microsd inside.

Completely bewildering, albeit amusing.

------
rocky1138
Can't they just make them out of soy[1] instead of plastic? Then they'll
biodegrade.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean_car](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean_car)

------
fstoppelman
It's almost 2017, and the fact that this packaging is horribly polluting and
absolutely terrible for the environment doesn't seem to be on the minds of
most people. That's very disappointing.

------
drcode
How 'bout those little things they put in the middle of pizzas to stop them
from getting crushed? Too bad I'm not a journalist, because that would make
for an awesome story. /s

~~~
CydeWeys
What's the point of this comment? Packaging/shipping technology is hugely
important, because the annual amount of landfill waste involved is
staggeringly large. There's also a big economic component to it. And as the
article says, this is a $5.6 billion industry in the US alone that is growing
larger with every passing year.

~~~
drcode
A story on shipping as a factor in online sales, walking through the history
of shipping strategies and packing techniques would be a super interesting
story...

...but this does not (to me) appear to be that story- This seems like a story
created by a journalist noticing the air cushions in his amazon package,
making two phone calls to pad the story a bit, and then sending it to their
editor as a finished work.

------
gm-conspiracy
Customers could elect to pay more for handling (the H in S&H), or have a
pricier tier of Prime that offers eco-friendly biodegradable packaging
materials.

------
Spooky23
We have a really innovative solution to this problem.

There exists places that take bulk case packages of products, place them on
shelves and make them available to the public. You give them money, put the
items in a paper/plastic/reusable bag and take them home.

They are called stores. Many are located near common places, like
intersections or near commercial office areas.

~~~
uptown
Weird.

