
How strong is your knot? - chmaynard
http://news.mit.edu/2020/model-how-strong-knot-0102
======
japhyr
My favorite, as many others are sharing here, is the figure 8. For climbing,
it's a super versatile knot and there's lots of variations for specific use
cases. It's also a great knot for discussing the properties of a good knot.

I also have found the trucker's hitch really useful from time to time. It
allows you to tie down a load, for example a kayak on top of a car. You tie
the initial hitch, and then you get to crank down on the hitch before tying
the final knot. It's like a mini pulley system without a pulley.

The knot I use every day is a modified shoelace knot. You do an overhand, and
then the first loop. Before you make the second loop though, you make two
wraps around the first loop instead of just one [0]. Once I started using that
knot, I don't think I ever had a shoelace come undone.

[0] Third video here, "Two Loop Shoelace Knot":
[https://www.sunnysports.com/blog/3-best-knots-tying-
shoelace...](https://www.sunnysports.com/blog/3-best-knots-tying-shoelaces-
stay-tied/)

~~~
grawprog
The two loop shoelace knot almost qualifies as life changing. Such a small
change to something I learned as a child makes such a big difference. Not only
do your shoes not come undone, but they don't loosen.

~~~
fl0under
I use "Ian's knot" to tie my shoes [0]. I was so excited when I first learnt
this, it is very quick to do and I like that the two loops of the tied
shoelace sit flat and straight on the show. Works great for short laces, and
never had a problem coming undone.

[0] [https://youtu.be/_O-xaJrao1w](https://youtu.be/_O-xaJrao1w)

------
alister
I have a knot problem that I think pretty much everyone has encountered. How
do you tie a bundle of branches or a cardboard box or something compressible
as tightly as possible? The first way everyone tries is to cross the rope like
you would for shoelaces, then putting pressure on the crossed rope with your
finger, and trying to cross the ends of the rope with your one free hand to
finish the knot. Inevitably the knot is way too loose. Surely there must be a
better way?

EDIT: the word "ratcheting" nicely conveys the idea I was looking for.

~~~
mightybyte
I second the suggestion of a trucker's hitch. A ratcheting knot can be useful
in this situation, but IMO what you're really after is a mechanical advantage.
The trucker's hitch gives you a mechanical advantage by using a loop in the
rope as a pulley. There are a number of ways to make the loop and it doesn't
really matter which one you use. This video gives a pretty nice explanation.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raTYwsfnsXg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raTYwsfnsXg)

Once you cinch the load down using your mechanical advantage, you can use any
number of knots (ratcheting or not) to secure it.

~~~
mirimir
I also love the truckers' hitch. The key benefit is the tautline hitch that
makes it easy to tighten. But sometimes I use an alpine butterfly loop and
tautline hitch. I think that it's stronger.

------
dragontamer
My list of favorite knots:

1\. Square Knot / Reef Knot -- This is the shoelace tie, and its one of the
simplest knots. Learn this knot backwards and forwards you'll use it a lot.
Avoid the granny knot (a mistaken reef knot). Beginners will often tie the
granny knot instead of the square knot. If you can do a square knot, the
"Surgeon Knot" is a useful variant which is more secure.

2\. Figure Eight -- Superior to the overhand knot in almost every way
imaginable. Never use an overhand knot, always use figure eight instead.

3\. Bowline Loop / Sheet Bend -- When a loop must be sturdy and unmoving, the
bowline is one of the best. The Sheet Bend is nearly the same, except you tie
two different ropes together. I keep a bowline loop on any "pocket twine"
because making a bowline loop is the start of many advanced knots. Such as...

4\. Package Tie -- Presents obviously look nicer with a ribbon in package tie
form, but any large, box-ish object can be secured with the package tie.
Really good for lunchboxes / bags in daily usage. Add another Bowline loop on
the end for a convenient handle. [https://www.animatedknots.com/package-tying-
knot](https://www.animatedknots.com/package-tying-knot)

5\. Cable Lacing -- When working with wires and electronics, the cable-lacing
knots are great for organizing wires. Its quick to tie and organize, and looks
great. [https://www.flight-mechanic.com/lacing-tying-and-cutting-
wir...](https://www.flight-mechanic.com/lacing-tying-and-cutting-wire-
bundles/)

6\. Poacher's Noose -- When a loop needs to "collapse" to bind objects
together, various nooses come in handy. Poacher's noose is my favorite, ties
easily and fewer people recognize it compared to the hangman's noose. Both
nooses have political implications however so be wary of who is watching you
when you tie a noose.

7\. Butterfly coil -- When storing most paracord, twine, or ropes... butterfly
coil is fast and effective storage.

8\. Over-under coil -- Wrapping up thicker wires / cables (especially
electronic cables / wires, but also garden hoses) is best with over-under coil
instead of butterfly coil.

9\. Half-hitch -- Its the knot you've been using all the time, and you
probably don't even realize it. Its called a "half-hitch", because you need
two of them to actually make it secure. Two-half hitches solves many problems.

~~~
dilyevsky
2\. False. (Double) overhand aka euro death knot is superior for joining two
ends of rappel line due to its smaller profile - lower probably of getting
jammed on pull

~~~
KirinDave
Don't solo overhand knots significantly weaken the cord they're tied into?

~~~
kerkeslager
_All_ knots significantly weaken the cord they're tied into. A very
significant margin of error is built into the ropes to account for this.

Rappel only exerts a force equivalent to your weight, plus a little extra
because of bouncing that naturally occurs during descent. 1kN = 224lbs force,
so if you weigh 200lbs you can expect to exert about 1kN of force on a static
rope. About the weakest static rope people frequently rappel on is a 7mm line,
and a typical one[1] is rated to 12.4kN. So abrasion, knots coming undone,
losing control of the brake strand, etc. are much larger concerns than static
rope breaking due to knots.

Static ropes are ideal for rappelling, but climbers will often use the same
rope they lead climb on to rappel on, and for lead climbing applications your
rope must be dynamic. The weakest ropes you would usually lead on would be
something like 7.5mm half ropes. A typical example[2] doesn't list a maximum
breaking strength, because this statistic isn't relevant for dynamic rope. The
purpose of a dynamic rope is absorb force during a fall: if you take a lead
fall on a static rope, it's unlikely that the static rope will break, but
hitting the end of a static rope is just as bad as hitting the ground with the
same force. When you hit the end of a dynamic rope, it stretches to absorb
this force, giving you a gentle fall. The maximum force on the rope listed is
9.9kN, which is from a UIAA-standard test fall: these falls are far more
violent than anything you are likely to experience in actual usage. Ostensibly
the rope can handle more force than that, but 9.9kN of force would probably
kill you anyway. Luckily the rope stretch means it's unlikely you'd get
anywhere near that level of force: a typical lead fall is in the range of 2kN.
So again with dynamic rope, margins of error are very high, and abrasion,
knots coming undone, losing control of the brake strand, etc. are much larger
concerns than static rope breaking due to knots.

This is all fine and good on paper and in a lab, but does it work in the real
world? The answer is yes: real world accident statistics[3] indicate that the
most common accidents on rappel are simply rappelling off the ends of your
rope. I wasn't able to find a single accident caused by rope breaking due to
knots. Ropes _do_ break, but this is typically attributed to abrasion over
sharp surfaces, or long-term wear, and even these accidents are rare.

[1] [https://sterlingrope.com/store/climb/cordage/tag-
lines/7mm-t...](https://sterlingrope.com/store/climb/cordage/tag-lines/7mm-
tag)

[2]
[https://www.mammut.com/us/en/p/2010-02762-11190/75-twilight-...](https://www.mammut.com/us/en/p/2010-02762-11190/75-twilight-
dry/)

[3]
[http://publications.americanalpineclub.org/about_accidents](http://publications.americanalpineclub.org/about_accidents)

EDIT: Just to be clear, although there is a correlation between thickness and
strength, the thinnest ropes aren't necessarily the weakest. The examples I
give are examples of some of the weakest ropes _I_ have used. This also
shouldn't be perceived as a criticism of these ropes: as I said, these are
more than strong enough. Thin ropes are certainly more susceptible to abrasion
and aren't as durable, but this is a tradeoff for having a very light rope for
moving fast. I used these ropes because they are the best ropes for the
situations I planned for.

~~~
dragontamer
> All knots significantly weaken the cord they're tied into. A very
> significant margin of error is built into the ropes to account for this.

I'm not a climber, what I usually use is cotton, jute, or sisal twine in a
day-to-day basis for various tasks. Cotton twine is very easy to keep in your
pocket and very clean, but its the weakest by far. Sisal and Jute are scratchy
and messy, but they have superior strength.

Lets say you've got a 40lb cotton twine in your pocket. You can either use an
overhand knot and drop the strength to ~20lbs, or you can use a figure-eight
knot and instead have ~32lbs of strength.

Both the overhand knot and figure eight knot weakened the twine. But overhand
knot is among the weakest of knots, with a 50% drop in performance. Having
only a 20% drop from figure-eight makes a huge, noticeable difference in
strength.

~~~
kerkeslager
Sure, those might be the numbers in your use cases, with your materials, but
I'd be very careful about claiming those numbers if the situation is changed
even slightly.

1\. Change in strength is dependent on the cord material and weave. Stiffer
cord will lose more strength when tied, while more supple cord will maintain
its strength better. The tradeoff is that supple cord is more susceptible to
tangling. Citing one number as a strength loss for different knots is _sure_
to be false. I would guess, for example, that your cotton twine sees less
percentage loss in strength in both knots than your jute.

2\. The change in strength is also dependent on the sharpness of the folds in
the material. A sharper turn is weaker than a rounder one. If you tie a knot
_around_ something, that decreases the sharpness of the turns, which is going
to increase the strength of the knots. We aren't typically just tying an
overhand or figure 8 midline in a knot and pulling on the ends--I can't think
of ANY place where that's useful. The closest thing I can think of is a
stopper knot, and neither of these knots is ideal for that application. I'd
expect to see a higher loss of strength with flat overhand/flat figure 8, than
with a ring bend/flemish bend (which correspond to the overhand and figure 8).
This is because the weakest points in the flat knots is the turn entering the
knot, whereas the retraced bend versions of these knots, the cord enters the
knot in a straight line.

3\. Breaking is often not the largest source of failure. A flat figure 8 will
roll and come untied long before the cord breaks in most materials, while the
flat usually binds within 1-3 rolls. The breaking load of a flat overhand is
much, much higher than the rolling load of a flat figure 8 in climbing ropes
I've tried it with.

~~~
dragontamer
> We aren't typically just tying an overhand or figure 8 midline in a knot and
> pulling on the ends--I can't think of ANY place where that's useful. The
> closest thing I can think of is a stopper knot, and neither of these knots
> is ideal for that application.

I'll admit that I've mostly used this "useless knot" test methodology you're
criticizing here. But in its defense, it is an easy to do micro-benchmark with
consistent results.

I guess I could setup a more cohesive test to measure the strength in more
"realistic" scenarios. That's really all it comes down to: the strength of the
rope in whatever specific situation you're doing.

I'll note that 40lb-strength rated cotton twine is just strong enough to be
useful, and just weak enough that a bad knot or two will cause the twine to
snap under moderate usage. (Ex: Package Tie to support a box containing 20lb).

~~~
kerkeslager
> I'll admit that I've mostly used this "useless knot" test methodology you're
> criticizing here. But in its defense, it is an easy to do micro-benchmark
> with consistent results.

That's fair, and it does prove that different knots affect strength
differently. That's a base principle that is useful to know even if it doesn't
get you far on its own.

With regards to your application: while it lacks the "finesse" of tying knots
that give you just enough strength, simply getting stronger twine would solve
this problem without the complexity.

In general, there's a whole lot of ways knots can fail. If you can solve the
problem by just using stronger cord, that frees up mental cycles for dressing,
avoiding slippage, effective communication, ease of untying, etc. If you're
just tying up boxes do whatever you feel like doing. But for climbing, I'd
rather have the rope be more than strong enough to do its job, and have those
brain cycles for focusing on preventing other system failures.

~~~
KirinDave
For what it's worth: lots of knot literature and lore cautions people about
overhand knots as weaking the line more than other knots.

That's why I asked.

------
throw7
The zeppelin has always been my favorite "knot" (the zeppelin is a bend), but
one knot is not the "best"... the alpine butterfly they compare it with is a
loop. They're used in different contexts.

I'm just knot layman, but other knots I like are: the icicle hitch, bowline
(+yosemite stopper), trucker's hitch, siberian/evenk/halter hitch, tumble
hitch, and the chinese button knot.

~~~
JshWright
A Trucker's Hitch is a _super_ useful thing to be able to rig. There are
dozens of ways to tie it, and just as many situations where it is useful.

------
blacksmith_tb
I am surprised to see no one has put in a good word here for the buntline
hitch[1], which is very handy for tying a rope to something fixed (and also
happens to be a standard necktie knot).

1: [https://www.animatedknots.com/buntline-hitch-
knot](https://www.animatedknots.com/buntline-hitch-knot)

------
ben7799
I was highly disappointed.. this article had so much potential.

Really it's great but it was such a let down to only see an animation of one
knot with their special cord in the article.. I was really hoping to see
animations/gifs of a bunch of interesting knots!

------
kajecounterhack
For standard knots the Klutz book of knots is really excellent!
[https://www.amazon.com/Klutz-Book-Knots-John-
Cassidy/dp/0932...](https://www.amazon.com/Klutz-Book-Knots-John-
Cassidy/dp/0932592104/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=)

The article doesn't mention fishing knots; in case anyone's curious anglers
care a lot about knot strength but strength changes based on whether you
lubricated the knot when tying and what kind of line you used to tie it (braid
vs smooth fluorocarbon for example).

My favorite fishing knot is the uni knot, which is a slip knot that can be
used to join lines (double uni) or tie things to line. It's super strong but
fishing knots aren't designed to be untied and always cinch down (vs climbing
knots which can't collapse / strangle a person). Slipknots are very useful: I
use a 3-wrap uni when I'm trussing thankgiving fowl for the oven!

There are some really cool fishing knot strength testing videos on YouTube.
The line-to-line joining knots are my favorites -- people get heated debating
the merits of the FG knot vs the alberto vs the double uni.

~~~
cloudkj
Indeed. Fishing knot strength is always a hot topic of debate, particularly
during the slower, off-season winter months when everyone's hunkering down and
doing tackle maintenance. Here's a pretty good breakdown of the line breaking
strength of various fishing knots across monofilament, fluorocarbon, and
braided line: [https://www.knotsforfishing.com/knot-strength-
chart/](https://www.knotsforfishing.com/knot-strength-chart/)

I personally prefer the Palomar Knot as it is probably the strongest knot that
is also easy to tie. The Improved Clinch Knot and its brethren are also handy
to know since there are so many variants that have high breaking strength; I
typically teach the Improved Clinch Knot to folks new to fishing.

~~~
kajecounterhack
I love the palomar too! The only issue with it is that it makes tying pretied
leaders tricky since you have to pull the whole terminal end through the loop.
Not as versatile as some other knots.

I find it surprising how many people use clinch knots vs the uni in real life.
It's certainly easier to tie clinch knots but I've never found the ease worth
it, since the uni is so much stronger and can be used for more things. Once I
got fast at uni the clinch knots went out the window.

------
Balgair
Just a plug for Clifford Ashley, the god-father of knots and their tying. His
book has some of my favorite knots in it and is a joy to have received as a
gift when I was younger. His stopper knot is a pretty cool one.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ashley_Book_of_Knots](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ashley_Book_of_Knots)

~~~
blacksmith_tb
ABOK is a wonderful book, but I wouldn't recommend it to someone who just
wants to learn a few more knots - books by Geoffrey Budworth or Des Pawson are
much clearer in terms of how to tie (though far less encyclopedic than
Ashley).

------
elteto
This is also a very popular knot reference, although limited to shoelaces:
[https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/index.htm](https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/index.htm)

------
heyflyguy
When I was in the 8th grade we were rappelling from an abandoned railroad
trestle using some scavenged rope we found. While tying knots and having our
own Indiana Jones adventure, a farmer came along and said we were trespassing
but more importantly were tying our ropes incorrectly - that "more people die
from square knots than any other kind of knot each year".

While I figure this is some passed down knowledge, i have always wondered if
this was semi-true. Square knots are terrible.

------
dzhiurgis
Practicality is also big one. There are tons, but I've learned bowline over 10
years ago and use it every day when sailing. It's easy to tie and can be taken
apart by hands.

~~~
peterwwillis
The bowline is fine for non-safety-critical uses, but cyclical loading causes
it to slip, so I'd suggest anyone who's learning the bowline to learn a
"safer" variant and just always use that one (examples are Yosemite Bowline,
End Bound Single Bowline, Double Bowline, Bowline on a Bight).

~~~
slowhand09
Been using bowlines for safety(fire dept) and sailing 35yrs. Never ever ever
seen a proper bowline "shake loose". Can tie it weakside one-handed, upside
down, behind my back, in the dark, underwater, while brushing my teeth.

~~~
JshWright
You use a bowline for life-safety in rescue operations? That's really unusual,
in my experience (firefighter/rescue tech in upstate New York)

~~~
brndr
I volunteer for a lifesaving organization in Germany and the bowline is one of
the most important knots there. One example is diving, where the diver is
secured by a bowline around his hip.

~~~
JshWright
Interesting... Around here if divers are working off a line, they're tagged in
with a short lead to the mainline. The lead will have carabiners on either end
that are either factory stitched in place, or clipped into a figure-eight.
Those aren't meant to be under any tension though, they're just for
maintaining orientation.

If a diver is attached to an actual haul line (not common, but happens in
swift-water recuse scenarios), then they're going to be clipped in via a
carabiner, which is tied on with a double-loop figure-eight. The double-loop
figure-eight is the standard "if your life is gonna depend on it" knot around
here.

(I am not a rescue diver, but do support dive operations from time to time)

------
dekhn
i've always thought it woudl be interesting to do large-scale simulations of
knots using a physics engine- generate random topologies, pull both ends,
compute some physical parameters such as "force required to pull apart". Then
sort of walk around knotspace using genetic algorithms to evolve new knots.
THere is probably a much more practical RL approach that doesn't require GA>

~~~
Balgair
Knots aren't super difficult to 'program' in the first place. The first
computers were for looms and their weft patterns, after all. It's always been
strange to me that no one has decided to set up the math of knots. Most knots
are just subtle changes to the same basic elements (bite, over/under, loops,
etc). I'd figured there are enough Eagle scouts with PhDs in math to have done
this already, but no.

~~~
wenc
Knot theory

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knot_theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knot_theory)

~~~
Balgair
I meant more like how to actually tie a knot, not just topologies.

~~~
wenc
So... the math of knots is... knot theory, and you're correct that it is
topology.

How to actually tie knots -- in a practical sense -- would be knotcraft [1] --
not sure what kind of math that would entail? What kind of connection did have
in mind between that and the math of knots and programming? (in your original
statement)

If it's a mathematical treatment of the strength of knots (physics), I believe
that's what the article is about, which is quite interesting.

[1]
[https://store.doverpublications.com/0486245152.html](https://store.doverpublications.com/0486245152.html)

~~~
Balgair
Well, since this theory does not actually exist yet, and I only have a
'feeling' that it should, I'll have to speculate very hard here:

Something where I have some sort of representation of the physical knot that
is much less than just a drawing of the knot, but more than just saying 'this
is a reef knot'. Something you can do operations on.

Say you are trying to tie a reef knot. You can tie a reef knot many ways. Say
you want to write down how to tie it one way.

So you take 2 strings. Say you represent that by the number 2.

Then you have to twist them together, so you write down something like 2T.

Then you have to pull a bite on each of the 2 strings string. So you write
down 2T + 2B.

Then you have to retwist them, but the opposite way. So you write down
something like 2T + 2B + 2(-T). Then you have a reef knot.

But the thing is that since there are a LOT of ways to tie a reef knot, that
'formula' should be able to be manipulated to produce the other 'formulas'
that also produce a reef knot. Also, a reminder, this 'formula' thingy I just
made up should not be taken as any sort of gospel.

We all know that when you pull hard on some knots, that they just decompose
into a simpler knot. So this representation of knots should be able to be
worked though on paper and give the right result. Or with slip knots and
hitches, knots that are designed to decompose into just a string when you pull
hard on them or something. So when you take the knot tying 'formula' and then
work through it, it just returns a string.

I think you could then apply the physics to these 'formulae', like, each twist
you do reduces the rope strength by X% and increased friction by Y%.

Some sort of thing like that is what I am thinking, I guess.

------
WilTimSon
I'm somewhat fascinated by people's ability to tie knots that are more
complicated than the basic shoelace one. I've watched hundreds of videos on
knot-tying and, even with basic step-by-step instructions, can't manage one
properly. Is it just the fact that this stuff is better taught practically or
am I just somehow the worst knot-tier of all? Even that reef knot gif eludes
me...

~~~
dragontamer
> I'm somewhat fascinated by people's ability to tie knots that are more
> complicated than the basic shoelace one.

> Even that reef knot gif eludes me

\--------

These statements are in contradiction. The reef knot IS your shoelace knot. If
you can tie your shoelaces, you can tie a reef knot, by definition.

Specifically, a "shoelace tie" is the slipped reef knot. "Slipped" means that
you leave little loops so that its easier to untie later. Get rid of the
"loops" in your shoelace tie, and you'll make a fine (more permanent) reef
knot.

~~~
emmelaich
I think many use the granny for their shoes.

~~~
mrob
I prefer the granny knot because it rotates the shoelaces so they're less
likely to get caught on things. I've never had any trouble with it coming
untied.
[https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/grannyknot.htm](https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/grannyknot.htm)
discusses the difference in detail, but fails to acknowledge this benefit of
granny knots.

------
sethammons
"can't tie a knot? Tie a lot!"

I should learn more knots, but I so seldom need any. I look it up, generally
get confused by the diagram, eventually work through it, and then forget it. I
joined two pieces of rope last year and secured one tarp. I've tied up laces
on my shoes a few times last year too.

------
IgorPartola
If you want a fun one, look up Somerville Bowline. Great take on a bowline
that is non-directional, non-collapsing, very hard to get wrong, small, quick
to tie, and cannot be undone under tension. Oh and it’s completely symmetrical
so you can pull on either end.

~~~
wrycoder
Fun, heh.

It does look like it would have a tendency to jam and be hard to untie. One of
the key points of a good knot is that it be easily untied once the strain has
been removed.

~~~
IgorPartola
Depends on the load of course, but in my experience having tied it a lot, it
only jammed up once, taking an extra thirty seconds to undo. This was when I
put about 200 lb on it and swung around a bunch. Jute rope also has a ton of
friction, synthetic being smoother would be even less likely to jam.

~~~
wrycoder
It's an interesting and decorative knot - I've not seen anything like it
before. I'll have to give it a try. I'm trying to think of another quality
bight knot that can be tied with the object in place. Not the bowline, not the
butterfly.

~~~
IgorPartola
If you want another one, check out the WykD Fast Bowline. It can be tied as
both a regular version and a quick release. It is even simpler but has less
symmetry. Interestingly, the quick release is more structurally sound with
this one. There is also a variant of the Somerville where the loop is made
backwards, which seems to go by Struggler’s knot. It purports to be nearly as
strong, and supposedly can be tied with one hand.

Also, there is a method of tying the Somerville called the reverse Somerville.
It’s the same knot but tied inline rather than with the bight.

The downside to the Somerville is that you generally can’t get it really tight
around the object. A variant of it exists which allows you to do so at the
cost of a bulkier knot: before making the loop, cross the bight over all the
rope, go under it and come back to where it just was, similar to how you would
start a reef knot. I have used that technique before with some success but not
enough to recommend it beyond messing around.

------
duelingjello
I’m curious what this would look like tying dress shoes with a Berluti
knot.[0] (I don’t think this knot is in the ABOK, but I could be wrong.[1])

0\. [https://www.hangerproject.com/blog/2018/01/12/berluti-
knot-t...](https://www.hangerproject.com/blog/2018/01/12/berluti-knot-
tutorial/)

1\.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ashley_Book_of_Knots](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ashley_Book_of_Knots)

~~~
war1025
I've tied my shoes very similar to that for many years. The only difference is
I only pull the bunny ears through the hole. Not the lace ends.

[https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/secureknot.htm](https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/secureknot.htm)

------
Strelok_AI
and? Wheres the research data and test results? or are we just supposed to
take you at your word?

~~~
begemotz
the news release does mention that the research was published in Science. I
agree that it wouldn't have taken much to add a link, but here;
[https://science.sciencemag.org/content/367/6473/71](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/367/6473/71)

------
nordsieck
IMO, the 2 most useful knots I know (aside from the shoelace knot) are the
Carrick Bend and the Bowline.

The Carrick bend is especially useful - it's basically a square knot that
doesn't come undone on its own.

~~~
emmelaich
The bowline is rather special as it

* doesn't tighten the big loop when you pull on it.

* it can be done with one hand (with lots of practice!)

I wonder how strong the bowline is compared to the others though.

~~~
nwallin
When I was in boy scouts, at one of the camps one year one of the people
running the thing had this little game. The idea was that two people would
each tie a bowline around their waist, and connect the two ropes with a square
knot. Then do it as fast as you could.

Two of the kids in my troop got it down to two and a half seconds. It looked
like one of those magic tricks where you flip a rope around and it knotted
itself.

I did eventually learn the one handed bowline, but it still takes me twenty
seconds to do either that or a basic square knot.

------
tick_tock_tick
I'd love them to do a break down on common knots as I trust my life to figure
8s and fisherman knots pretty regularly.

~~~
dgacmu
Look for older reports from rec.climbing. For example:
[http://canyoncollective.com/threads/some-knot-testing-
data.7...](http://canyoncollective.com/threads/some-knot-testing-data.7688/)

And
[https://user.xmission.com/~tmoyer/testing/EDK.html](https://user.xmission.com/~tmoyer/testing/EDK.html)

Some of the testing folks at black diamond did a bunch of tests when we were
all jabbering about knot safety about 20 years ago. Kinda sad the old posts
are getting so hard to find!

~~~
kragen
We need a search engine focused on organizing the world's information and
making it accessible and useful, instead of advertising.

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trollied
I like things like this appearing on HN, it brings all of the HN climbers out
of the woodwork :)

------
egberts1
My favorite knot which continues to confound MIT to this day is called the
Gordian Knot.

------
begemotz
link to the Science article:
[https://science.sciencemag.org/content/367/6473/71](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/367/6473/71)

------
11235813213455
knots are beautiful, useful. Just note that a knot creates a weakness, in some
specific cases, if you need weight and resistance gain, a rope splicing is
much better

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mikorym
Does anyone know what the best knot is for stitching?

------
war1025
Obligatory link to this handy reference of different knots and how to tie
them:
[https://www.netknots.com/rope_knots](https://www.netknots.com/rope_knots)

------
stillbourne
knot very strong at all

------
saagarjha
Can we get the link replaced with an HTTPS one
([https://news.mit.edu/2020/model-how-strong-
knot-0102](https://news.mit.edu/2020/model-how-strong-knot-0102))?

