
The high-risk, high-reward world of selling random stuff on Amazon - prostoalex
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/09/tech/amazon-sellers-marketplace/index.html
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busterarm
I list trading cards (YGO, MTG) on Amazon, in addition to TCGPlayer.

Amazon is very lucrative because I can list commons at $0.01 where there's
almost zero competition and make all of my money on shipping. I do this at
high volume and have a high amount of repeat business/trust. I aggressively
price the more expensive stuff and it works out well. YGO in particular is
very good on Amazon because the secondary market for non-rares is shit for
that game. Players have a hard time getting the low-value cards they need
without opening new product or doing bulk buys.

I can often get 5x-10x what I would for some things (cheaper products that
sell at higher volumes) on TCGPlayer because the market (customers &
expectations) is different. Plus the feedback is a lot better. The fraud rate
on Amazon is a fraction of what is at the card game sites.

~~~
someguydave
How do you make money on shipping? Do you use first class mail or media mail?
Whenever I sell used stuff on amazon I end up losing my shirt on shipping.

~~~
busterarm
First Class Mail. You set a shipping rate on Amazon that covers your costs and
then some, for most shipping conditions. Free shipping is the sucker play
(except for boxes/cases/etc)

I do not bother with Media Mail ever (except internationally with certain
repeat customers). It is too slow and makes buyers unhappy.

~~~
someguydave
Yeah I always do "free shipping" but I guess that's my mistake...

~~~
gwbas1c
I think this kind of market is the exception instead of the norm. It sounds
like the cost of business is time, not inventory.

Thus, charging for shipping instead of inventory makes more sense.

~~~
busterarm
You've nailed it.

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folli
This has a (not so surprising) resemblance with the current state of app
development for Google's Play Store.

This is discussed e.g. here:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/androiddev/comments/9n88wv/the_futu...](https://www.reddit.com/r/androiddev/comments/9n88wv/the_future_of_android_development/)

~~~
rococode
It's really quite unnerving that Google (and Apple) has the potential to
destroy any of the numerous mobile-first companies out there with effectively
the flick of a switch. An entire company could be shut down, and many jobs
ended, just by having their app suddenly deemed to be unacceptable. I'm
looking forward to seeing what the EU will try to do about it.

~~~
ttty
Having your business model around Google is not a good idea. Try to be as
independent as possible.

If you really depend, you are in high risk and should be ready to be shut down
at any time.

~~~
folli
Sounds like obvious advice in theory, but in practice you will run into a lot
of problems.

Google's Play store has a quasi-monopol on Android app sales, alternative app
stores make up a small fraction in the promille range.

~~~
chrisseaton
Make a web app in addition to your native apps? Then if they pull the native
app you can direct people to the web app. I think Uber has this?

~~~
Cthulhu_
Could you make an app that just installs your web app in the launcher so the
user only uses your webapp directly? iirc that can't be pulled as easily by
Google.

~~~
chrisseaton
I've done that - it's a pretty poor experience in practice.

~~~
bookbinder
Why is that? What has been your experience?

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chrisseaton
I found it harder to make a clean, smooth user interface. Lots of workarounds
to make things fit into the right place, to make the right thing in focus for
user input. I'm not a professional front-end developer so maybe I just wasn't
any good at it, but achieving a basic level of quality was much harder.

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choot
Lately, i use shopify and private label the stuff from China.

I sell exclusively through Facebook ads.

Around 20K per month revenue with 70% margin.

This is in UK only. I've no idea how to move product to the US and sell there.

I've not found any company which can take my products from UK and store it in
a wharehouse in the US then dispatch them to address i specify.

Lemme know if you know about any such company.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
If you can get a USA company to do store-and-dispatch for you, why can't the
Chinese sellers do that in the UK?

Aside: I was looking at something, cables for a multimeter IIRC - cheaper
shipped from China than the delivery cost from UK providers; I can't get my
brain around that. It means Chinese shippers are getting cheaper shipping for
the Euro stretch than local shippers? (Local providers aren't overcharging the
shipping AFAICT).

~~~
ejo4041
Related to the aside: It has been this way for a while. Check out ebay
listings for < $1 USD shipped. Pretty much anything you could buy in a dollar
store and more can be shipped to your door for less than a dollar if you are
willing to wait up to 30 days sometimes. That entire inter-country shipping
system is broken. From what I understand, they hand off the package with no
fees going to the USPS. I believe it is that way for most tiny packages.

~~~
cosmie
It's not that no fees go to the USPS, but the fees that go to the USPS are
pre-negotiated by the Universal Postal Union (UPU), which is a multi-national
organization within the UN that the USPS is a member of.

China is considered a Group III country by the UPU, which is a "mid level
developing country". Other countries in that group include Brazil, Mexico, and
Thailand. The US is a Group I "Industrialized" country. Shipments from a Group
III to a Group I country equate to about $1 - $1.50 USD per pound (it's not a
linear scale and per/lb rate fluctuates based on total weight).

~~~
pbhjpbhj
That's really interesting; thanks for sharing.

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TekMol

        was stuck with 600 stackable baby formula
        dispensers in her garage
    

Is this an over-dramatization, or is Amazon really that much of a monopoly,
that you cannot get rid of inventory at all elsewhere?

I can understand that other marketplaces might not be efficient enough to turn
a profit. But just selling the inventory at purchase price?

What alternatives are there? Ebay comes to mind. Anything else?

~~~
anonymous5133
The key word her is "stackable" so the seller is focusing on volume selling
which is very effective with amazon's one listing per item policy. If the item
is very popular then having 600 of some item could be a weeks worth of
inventory. Whereas on other sites, you would have to list on site and then
everything is seller-by-seller....so if people don't see your listing or your
price isn't good enough then you get no sales.

but yeah, that's just how it is. Selling products on ebay/amazon is not a
guaranteed source of income so those types of businesses are inherently high-
risk, especially if you are focusing on a specific product line or niche
products.

~~~
TekMol

        so if people don't see your listing or your price
        isn't good enough then you get no sales
    

Again, I understand how that can prevent a profit.

But how does it hinder you to put ads (I guess both Ebay and Amazaon have
those) for your product and sell it off for half the price?

I'm not addressing that she might have to fold her business. I'm only
addressing the being stuck with inventory part. That makes it sound like she
had to throw it away or something.

~~~
moltar
Yeah, sellers do that all the time. You can liquidate. There are also Facebook
groups where sellers bulk liquidate.

The fact that they were stuck with inventory in the garage just means they had
no idea what they were doing.

~~~
waisbrot
"Stuck with" is a colloquialism. It's just saying that she'd planned to make X
profit and instead will end up with a loss. There's plenty of ways to make a
loss: sell it at a discount (near or below what you bought for) or spend so
much effort making sales that your opportunity cost is more than your profit.
The article's point isn't about how she's going to get rid of her useless
inventory, so it just uses the shorthand that she's not selling at Amazon and
has no immediate profitable back-up plan.

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gwbas1c
Honestly, there are a lot of screwballs in the Amazon marketplace, and as a
regular Amazon customer, I'm quite happy that they stick up for me. It's also
clear that Amazon needs to improve their system for vendors. Shutting a vendor
off without some form of human contact or rapid appeal will ultimately hurt
their marketplace.

I once had to file an A to Z complaint, and the vendor called me personally
asking me to cancel the complaint. In this case, the vendor was a bit of a
screwball and entered into Amazon that he shipped me the entire order. I only
received part of my order, and after a week of emailing back and forth, I
realized that the vendor never had the missing item in stock.

On the phone, the vendor pushed really hard on me to cancel my A to Z
complaint. I flatly told the vendor that Amazon listed the item as delivered
to my address, and he never shipped it. I then told him he needed to work with
Amazon to resolve the problem. He should have never called me in the first
place. Instead, he should have been able to work out the problem with Amazon.

At that point it became clear to me that Amazon might be a bit too heavy-
handed with vendors. Even though the vendor was clearly in the wrong, and
clearly a screwball, the fear in his voice of an A to Z complaint made me
suspect that Amazon is too heavy handed in handling disputes like mine.

~~~
busterarm
If there's anything I've learned from selling on Amazon, it's that both buyers
and sellers are willing to pay a premium for the smooth experience that Amazon
provides.

Literally everyone benefits. I honestly don't know how Ebay, PayPal, and
retailers stay in business.

------
mockingbirdy
There are some strategies to prevent Amazon from destroying your business, but
you have to be very careful.

I know people who make 3k+/month with a 3-5k+ investment. They don't really
care that it doesn't work anymore for that specific product after 4-5 months.
The ROI is crazy. But most people don't know how to do this properly and lose
money. For these people it's basically gambling and I wouldn't recommend it.
It's hard to pull it off consistently.

edit: OT - is it just my perception or is HN more interested in passive income
sources lately? (also making passive money with SaaS like the projects on
indiehackers.com)

~~~
madeuptempacct
Being interested in passive income is a new trend, over the past 10 years.
Nothing wrong with it, but everyone I know with spare money and a little
ambition is trying to flip houses or buy rental properties. Or sell things for
Amazon. Or run a delivery chain for Amazon.

~~~
fenwick67
Looking for passive income is not a new thing, investing and rent-seeking are
pretty classic ideas

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dsfyu404ed
Where I grew up small businesses could be "turned off" by the local government
at the drop of a hat if they competed with the businesses of the well
connected, the owner offended the wrong person, etc, etc. It would all
eventually be "made right", sometimes in court, but because most business was
seasonal many businesses would fold in the time it took for things to be "made
right".

Is having an algorithm flag you and ruin your business and source of income
with no warning and inadequate recourse really that different from the status
quo?

~~~
kevin_b_er
Yes. Government, even moreso local governement, is supposed to be subject and
an expression of the will of the people. The multinational corporation is
barely so.

When the company screws you over, you'll have no recourse. This is the
libertarian dream.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
Amazon can't send cops to my house if I decide I'm gonna keep selling my
product on eBay or register for a new Amazon seller account. If you keep
trying to run a business that's been condemned by local government eventually
cops will show up and stop you from running that business.

The stakes are lower in the case of Amazon. You're not renting shop space.
You're not sitting on as much inventory. You can jump ship more easily (kind
of hard to relocate your business to another location). The trade-off is that
they can also kick you out more easily.

------
mogadsheu
I know a couple of people who have done this with some success. It’s basically
a game of front-running since you’ll never compete on price, unless you own
the factory or have a real sweetheart deal.

Your only hope is to pick up the pennies on your race to the bottom,
especially with your platform (Amazon) liable to compete with you, in addition
to some very hungry foreigners who can live off of much less than you due to
pitching power disparities.

------
franciscop
[meta] 4 popups + 1 "read more" \+ 1 autoplay video on mobile. The experience
is quite subpar here, probably the worst offender I've seen in a while.

Edit: added 1 extra popup that appeared on changing tabs to write this.

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lawlessone
Reading this , selling on Amazon sounds like online gambling.

As soon as you start to win they cut you off.

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jordan314
I'm an amazon merch seller. Less risk but still crazy rules. I had a
successful shirt, then copycats sold my shirt for less. I made a complaint to
take down their shirt, and amazon took down my shirt instead. No matter how
many times I email them they won't undo that.

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erikb
Amazon is also not fighting for customers, afaik. If something goes wrong,
they dump you instructions on how to make it a task for the local police. And
then they repeat this again and again.

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kelvin0
I call it 'Dancing with the dragon'. It's thrilling most of time and you
sometime think you tamed the Dragon. But you only get burnt once ...

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csense
Is there a startup opportunity here for a company that focuses on being an
Amazon substitute for suppliers that have been kicked off Amazon?

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tzakrajs
People who drop ship stuff and/or resell bulk inventory for chinese
manufacturers act as conduits for copycat and/or counterfeit merchanidise.

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kentt
Warning autoplays video. Blocked site.

~~~
giarc
I use a Chrome extension called Mute Tabs By URL (1). It doesn't stop the
video, just mutes the audio. Quick and easy to add sites.

[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/mute-tabs-by-
url/b...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/mute-tabs-by-
url/bpokcenamldgbghabnklpmbkkcgcgdld)

