
How to Trick an Online Scammer Into Carving a Computer Out of Wood - lotusleaf1987
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2010/09/how-to-trick-an-online-scammer-into-carving-a-computer-out-of-wood/63674/
======
geophile
419 scammers are pests, but scamming the scammers can go to far:
[http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/363/E...](http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/363/Enforcers). This story is interesting to listen to
because you start off with the predictable reaction -- those scammers are
getting what they deserve. But then it takes a left turn -- they get quite a
bit more than they deserve. You end up feeling sorry for the scammers. Listen
to the piece and see what you think.

~~~
BrandonM
The sad thing is that because of the conditions they have grown up in,
scamming is one of the only ways for them to improve their lives. Now this man
has actually produced some very good works of art, and instead of receiving
the recognition and compensation he deserves, he is being ridiculed. This
would have been a great opportunity to pull someone out of his current
condition and encourage him to make and sell art, improving his life and the
lives of others. Instead, he's pretty much guaranteed to continue scamming.

~~~
rdtsc
I doubt this man spent time to produce the sculpture -- remember his full time
job is scamming, there is probably not much time left for sculpture. Scamming
is quite profitable and labor in Nigeria is probably fairly cheap, so if I had
to guess, he probably payed someone else to do the work.

~~~
kgermino
Or, as smoody pointed out below, force someone to do it at gunpoint.

------
janj
Reminds me of when I used to mess with telemarketers. My goal was to see how
long I could get them to stay on the phone, thinking that the more of their
time I wasted the less profitable telemarketing would be (how much of an
affect could one person really have though?). I was very successful with a
variety of techniques and it turned into a fun game. I almost regret having
changed my number, no longer getting these calls now.

One good one was when I had this lady first describe her work environment,
finding out she was working with her fiance. I had her describe him and their
relationship and somehow got her talking about her willingness to engage in a
threesome. After almost 15 minutes she politely told me that she had to go,
being at work and all. Maybe 10 minutes later her supposed fiance called me
back asking why I was talking 'rubbish' to his girlfriend. I talked with him
for a while and got him to tell me about their relationship, that they had
been engaged for 5 years, got engaged when she was 15! He started describing
her physically but finally hung up when I tried to get him to tell me how much
she weighed (I was really curious after he told me she was 5'4"). That one was
during work and by the end of the conversation I had the entire office sitting
around listening.

Another time I was walking home when I received a free satellite tv
installation offer (during the recorded intro to these calls, before pressing
'1' to speak to someone, is the best time to prepare what you're going to
say). When the guy came on the line I got him to describe in as much detail as
he was willing the contents of each of the porn channels that was included in
the service. It's fun to imagine what their going through on their end of the
call (sometimes I would get them to yell into the phone claiming I could
barely hear them).

I think it's really entertaining when they get mad at me for wasting their
time! This usually happens when it's a get-out-of-debt scammer. I answer all
their questions and they get excited when they hear my monthly credit card
bill (never bothering to find out that I pay off the entire balance each
month) but then get real upset when I try to convince them that I'm not in
need of their 'services'. Half the time they don't believe me, trying to
'comfort' me by telling me that it's ok to be in financial distress, everyone
is in debt and are experiencing tough times right now.

I tried to think of ways to promote this kind of behavior, figuring if one in
ten of their calls were to people like me then telemarketing would be much
less profitable, but I never tried to follow through with anything. Now that I
don't get these calls anymore I kind of miss it. Over the years I became much
more comfortable, confident and competent dealing with telemarketers in this
way.

------
onan_barbarian
A lot of this scam-bait stuff is going way too far, and I can't help but
wonder about the ire on behalf of all those 'innocent victims' out there.

In the classic 419 scam (and yes, there are other variants that don't imply
quit the same level of corruption in the scammed): the offer is clearly drawn
from money that some dictator has supposedly stolen from his own country.
Trying to take part in this theft doesn't make you 'innocent', it makes you a
smaller-scale, dumber, would-be crook.

~~~
Tichy
Again I feel reminded of this quote: you can't con an honest man.

~~~
Natsu
Sure you can. While classic scams do appeal to greed, more modern ones appeal
to altruism. They focus on advance fee scams, but there are plenty of fake
charities and whatnot out there.

------
CrazedGeek
Alternatively, the (classic) how to trick an online scammer into buying a fake
laptop: <http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/>

(I know it's only tangentially related, but I love that story.)

~~~
brc
A good read, and interesting on the retaliation by the scammer. Interestingly,
someone I know asked me to look at an ebay purchase they were going to make,
which I immediately suspected was a scam. They pulled out (hadn't actually put
on a bid) and the retaliation was a succession of viruses and phishing emails,
all of which (sort of) looked like ebay dispute resolution emails.

I'm guessing the scammers have their message boards as well, and the standard
retaliation response is to try and send viruses and/or phish out a credit card
for fraud.

------
brc
The original, linked article is the better read, although towards the end the
author descends into a mess of racism accusations and uncertain direction. He
completely misunderstands the use of the term 'owned', and somehow thinks it's
a colonial throwback to slavery rather than common internet speak for a
complete win over an opponent.

The writer of the original piece needs to stop worrying about the scammers for
two seconds and see that this movement, ultimately, has a good chance of
putting scammers out of business. Because I can see more people getting in on
the anti-scam game than people falling for the scams. And once the numbers on
a prospective scammer turn up to be 3:1 that it's a fake acceptance, they are
going to start giving up on it.

~~~
joe_the_user
Hmm,

The wood-carving thing actually makes me think they aren't "in business" in
the conventional sense. Rather, they seem like desperately poor people
grasping at whatever opportunity appears. I suspect that most of their efforts
are utterly unsuccessful and it's more of a matter of doing it because they
have nothing better to do.

~~~
brc
Your points are all valid but they are still knowingly engaged in crime. It's
unlikely this guy carved the thing himself, rather he would have commissioned
it from a local carver.

It's sad that they are poor, to me, still not an excuse to start stealing from
people. There's a lot of poor people in the world that are still honest. I'd
much rather see compassion shown towards them.

~~~
joe_the_user
My point had nothing to do with compassion or lack-of compassion.

My point was _only_ that, in regards to the original poster's idea, you aren't
going to "put them out of business" by providing them with lots of
frustration. They slog through an immense amount of futile activity already
and are quite willing to do more.

Judge them however you want...

------
smoody
the danger here is, of course, that the person coaxing the wood sculptures
might be doing more harm than good. who knows what circumstances led to the
sculptures... could they have been done at gun point or other threat? if
riches are at stake, then i believe the answer is 'yes.'

~~~
mahmud
It's not organized crime, more like a national past-time in certain geographic
regions. I used to frequent the same internet cafes where these guys stay up
late; they look a lot like problem gamblers. Tens of men huddled over CRTs,
chain smoking and no one talking to each other. You can see people bringing in
"evidence", photos in USBs to send over to marks, multi-tasking in IMs and
chats and romancing webcam girls on the side.

I haven't seen any money while there. Whoever comes there spends their
disposable cash to surf, most of the day they just play games or facebook.

I found the scammers to be pretty polite and "brotherly". There is a lot of
empty bragging and people will pretend to be big-shot mafiosi, but it's all a
con aimed at you. The programmer in me wanted to inquire about bot-nets:
everyone claimed to have "one", but the responses were confused at best.

In cities where bonafide scammers are present, there will also be the
"runners". But just like in border towns or trafficking areas, it's best to
walk out of the venue when in comes a guy followed by a crowd. A solitary
quiet man, behind whom walks a group: biggest tell-tale of a made man, and if
you look foreign or moneyed, it's best to get up and walk away without making
eye contact, but while also not looking scared or nerved. (The one time I came
very close to this I put my beers next to the computer and yelled to the
attendant "I will be back for this". Never did.)

The one guy who I _know_ makes a decent living at this plays the big leagues.
He is in the scrap-metal business and has a physical office. Former diplomat
from a _central_ Africa country. His business, however, is strictly document
forgery, insurance fraud and shipment theft. He was a real gentleman, an avid
tennis and muay thai fan, but the people competing for his attention were
thugs and would do anything for him.

TL;DR, the guys who pull out guns have more at stake; usually drug money, or
theft of their stolen properties. 419ers are bored nerds; natural born Office
jockeys who would have been employed in administrative positions if there were
jobs available to them.

------
awongh
this is epic. I think you could make a business of this and sell these wood
artifacts on ebay.

