
World’s Most Cramped Airline Seat to Launch Next Week - alexandros
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/09/worlds-most-cramped-airline-seat-to-launch-next-week/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wired%2Findex+%28Wired%3A+Index+3+%28Top+Stories+2%29%29
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smoody
I can't imagine the government authorities would allow this for at least two
reasons:

1\. safety. What if the jet needs to be evacuated because of an emergency and
you're in a window seat and there is a very portly person in the middle seat
who happens to be unconscious? Your normal exit path would be blocked and you
can't easily climb over the seat in front of you.

2\. children and infants: How would a five year old sit in one of these
contraptions? How would you take a baby on board?

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cstross
More to the point:

Current airliner passenger loads are determined by a mandatory requirement to
be able to evacuate the passengers from the hull within a set period.

Cram in extra seats, and you're up against the evacuation limit, which is a
hard limit dictated by the number of bodies and the number of doors in the
fuselage.

To work around it, you'd have to cut holes in the fuselage for additional
emergency exits and then recertify the aircraft, which means an airline
wanting to use these seats will need to buy new airliners certified to carry
more passengers. But this higher density seating only makes sense for short
haul ultra-low-cost tickets, which are less profitable, ergo ...

(And then there's the issue of weight. Passengers weigh, say, 75Kg on average,
including clothing. They fly with luggage, another 5-25Kg. A Boeing 737-800
currently has a limit of 189 passengers and a payload of roughly 40,000kg, of
which up to 26,000kg is fuel: put more than 189 passengers (18,900Kg by my
BOTE estimate above) and you're going to be squeezing right up against Maximum
Take-Off Weight unless you reduce the maximum fuel load. Even if there's room
in the hull, you're going to have to redesign a lot more than the seats and
the emergency exits ...)

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MC27
An alternative option would be to cram the economy class into a smaller space,
so they can have more space for premium economy, business and first class
seats. That would be useful for routes between London and New York where
there's a big demand for business class seats.

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mayank
No matter what your age, financial status, or physical stature/condition, I
really find it hard to imagine anyone riding a saddle with a seatbelt on an
already-torturous-in-economy transcontinental flight.

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jonhohle
> Is it one step closer to just drugging us and piling us onto shelves like
> suitcases, or a legitimate next-step for cheap air-travel?

I think I'd rather be knocked out.

~~~
houseabsolute
Actually that would really not be too bad . . . unless you need to get off the
plane early for any reason.

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hanibash
If the tickets are cheap enough, people will use these seats. The question is,
how much cheaper does this make tickets?

Edit: Made some very rough estimates Flight from Chicago to New York with
United is $178, (found on Expedia). There are 112 economy seats = $19,936.
Flights aren't going to be full to capacity but let's just assume for now.
Assume that United replace it's entire economy section of the flight with
these seats.The economy section is 617" long. 617/23 = 27 rows of seats * 6
seats/row - 2 emergency exits = 160 seats.

$19,936/160 = $124.60

So if you replaced the entire economy cabin with these seats, a flight from NY
to Chicago would go from $178 to $124.60. That's a pretty significant price
cut.

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shasta
Your math assumes that there is no per traveler cost to the airline, which
seems unlikely. Extra people increase the weight (lowering fuel efficiency),
slow down boarding times, drink extra soda, etc.

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KoZeN
This is beyond ridiculous.

I'm also six foot three but I also happen to weigh in around 130kg and I would
genuinely prefer to stand than use these seats.

Those afflicted with arthritis, parents with infants and almost anyone with a
physical disablility will struggle massively. I appreciate it's a concept at
the moment but Ryanair will bend over backwards to get something like this
approved. They are already floating the idea of standing room only.

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JoeAltmaier
Of course people with disabilities or special needs need to buy the ticket
that works for them. My son sometimes has to buy a 1st class ticket for
himself and his cello - its pointless to whine about how economy class should
be bigger to accomodate his needs.

~~~
KoZeN
Carrying a large musical instrument and being afflicted with a physical
disability are poles appart.

Agreed, airlines shouldn't increase space to accomodate his cello but I see no
valid argument justifying making an MS sufferer pay more because they would
struggle to support themselves in these seats.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
How about a paraplegic?

Come on, it sucks to be sick, but every airline seat is not going to be
quipped with life support systems.

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KoZeN
Out of context again Joe.

I'm not advocating that airlines should incorporate ridiculous measures to
accomodate all passengers, I am simply stating that these new seats will
prevent a significant amount of people who _can_ currently travel in economy
from doing so in future.

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zzzmarcus
The article says that this will be a new class, below economy, called "cabin
class." If that's the case, everyone who used to travel in economy could
continue to do so.

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orblivion
If they're looking to reduce space, they should have us lie down horizontally.
I don't think I would mind less space if I could lie down the whole time.

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schultzor
Sweet, get ready to sell chafing relief products in the terminal.

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forinti
I'd rather fly standing up!

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arethuza
Ryanair and its plans for £5 standing only tickets:

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/7864921/Ryanair...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/7864921/Ryanair-
to-sell-5-tickets-for-standing-room-only-flights.html)

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Silhouette
Does anyone remember when Ryanair were an airline, not a punchline?

I flew with them once, because they went from an airport much closer to me
than the big carriers like BA. I'm not a fan of flying generally, but this was
such an unpleasant experience that if I ever make the same trip again, I will
surely fly from a different airport with a different carrier even if it means
a significantly longer journey from home to airport.

~~~
arethuza
I've flown with Ryanair a few times between the UK (Prestwick) and Sweden - I
thought it was perfectly OK.

However, their website is an abomination.

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CaptainZapp
There's a website for that :

<http://seatguru.com>

After being through the Lima to Amsterdam wringer with half of the front seats
floor occupied by the entertainment box (literally) I appreciate a website
that gives me detailed seat layouts before buying a ticket.

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blahblahblah
Yet another reason why the airline industry needs to be re-regulated to stop
the ongoing race to the bottom in customer service.

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jaxonrice
I think the airlines might have just found my point where comfort becomes more
point than price

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ouhjygj
Well at least she seems to be enjoying the turblence!

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JoeAltmaier
I wonder about thrombosis...

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notahacker
For short haul flights deep vein thrombosis shouldn't be an issue, and the
awkward position would probably better for circulation. Passenger evacuation
and customer rejection are bigger obstacles to come.

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dragoon
I've never said this of a fellow startup, but I hope in earnest that they
fail, not out of contempt, but because I don't want ever to have to sit in a
seat like that.

Note: "below economy" class is a terrible idea for us, because it means that
those seats will cost current coach prices, and what we call coach will become
business class. (This has happened before; business now is what coach was in
1990.)

