
For $45 Per Month, All the Coffee You Can Drink - sschwartz
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-04-15/for-45-per-month-all-the-coffee-you-can-drink
======
jasonkester
Cool idea, but it seems to target a pretty narrow demographic:

    
    
      - wealthy enough to live in NYC and buy at least 
        one cup of coffee every single work day
    
      - cheap enough to want to save a few bucks a month on coffee
    
      - can't be bothered to carry a credit card around every day
     
      - can be bothered to carry a smart phone around every day
    
      - trendy enough to frequent NYC coffee shops
    
      - untrendy enough to be seen using "coupons" in public
     
      - techy enough to consider installing a coffee buying app 
    
      - non-techy enough to not have built a crazy $10k 
        coffee roasting-grinding-brewing setup at home
    
    

Fortunately for them, starting in NYC, that still leaves around thirty million
potential customers.

It'll be fun watching this play out.

~~~
carlob
> \- non-techy enough to not have built a crazy $10k coffee-brewing setup at
> home

I have an espresso maker (admittedly much much cheaper than that) at home, but
I still drink coffee out throughout the day.

Though I also must admit to the fact that I leave in Rome where an espresso is
70-90 cents and consistently good.

~~~
adambenayoun
I own 3 espresso machines and have access to 5 no matter where I am (Splitting
my time between Tel Aviv and the bay area) and I still drink coffee outside.

~~~
carlob
I find it's really hard to make a homemade espresso that comes close to the
one you get from a café around here. But then again maybe I should invest 10k
on a new machine (and then 20k to renovate my kitchen to fit it in).

~~~
yhager
You can get a pretty good quality espresso with a fairly cheap setup.

To me, the most important thing is the freshness of the roast, then the
quality of the grinder, and and actual espresso machine comes third.

I have a $800 setup (machine + grinder), and I roast my own beans, on an iron
skillet, once a week.

It's pretty difficult to find anything outside on par with the quality I can
get at home (most of the time..)

~~~
carlob
> It's pretty difficult to find anything outside on par with the quality I can
> get at home (most of the time..)

It really depends on where you are. I find that espresso in the gourmet cafés
in large American cities I tried is mostly on par or slightly worse than the
average espresso in Rome. The grains and the roast can be pretty good, but
it's often brewed slightly long for my taste.

Espresso here is so dense it's almost solid and that's the thing I can't
reproduce at home.

------
adambenayoun
I'm a huge espresso lover - made sure to have an espresso machine everywhere I
spend more than a few hours (office x 2, apartment x 2) and I still find
myself buying coffee when I'm outside.

I've used them while in Israel (and I know one of the founders), I only have
good stuff to say about them.

There are 2 benefits from using it, obviously the first one is the huge cost
saving but the second is the fact you can drink at several places and you get
to discover some good places.

When you pay for your espresso sometimes you tend to stick with the place you
know have good espresso, however with CUPS I get to visit new places from time
to time (mostly when I see on the app that a nearby cafe is a member) and I
get to experiment with new blends.

Also I found that some places have amazing savings for members - some places
will give you drinks and other things at a discount and usually will welcome
you as a regular (meaning you get a better service).

I hope they spread everywhere and make this an international membership
meaning if I visit NYC I can use my app from Israel.

------
drcode
As someone who works out of coffee shops a lot, there is pretty much ZERO
appeal for me to use this kind of service, since I view my coffee costs as
"rent" and prefer to pay full price plus a tip to be viewed as a good
customer.

Bringing in an app saying "I'm a cheapskate that doesn't want to pay full
price" is not the message I want to give to coffee shop staff.

~~~
josefresco
But working from their coffee shop is? I would think a "good customer" to them
is someone you walks in, buys coffee, and then leaves. Sure it helps that you
probably meet people there (expanding their reach) but a half dozen people
setting up camp in your coffee shop all day can't be ideal.

~~~
Theodores
Actually, no... It is the 'empty restaurant syndrome', you have probably done
it yourself, in some strange town, not knowing where to eat, you go past a few
places and choose one that other diners have also chosen, walking past the
empty place as if it has the plague.

Hence a few customers that hang around for a while are good for drawing in
other customers.

~~~
josefresco
Dude was setting up shop ... if I walk by a coffee shop and see 12 mobile
offices I don't think "this must be a good coffee shop" I think "they must
have good wifi and not give a shit if you work there". It would appeal to my
business-owner side, but not my consumer side.

------
aestra
Significant savings for some.

If you had a 2 cups a day coffee habit, this works out to about $.73 a cup or
$1.45 a day. Pretty good deal if you like coffee shop coffee.

Assuming you'll otherwise spend $3 per cup you'll save about $1657 a year.
$2190 vs $532.90.

~~~
pwthornton
The coffee included with the $45 plan (there are two tiers), is not $3 coffee.
It's black coffee. In DC, a small drip coffee or pour over runs around $1.80
or so. It's $85 a month for the plan that includes lattes and other more
expensive espresso drinks.

A small latte usually runs around $3 or so. An espresso might be $2.25-2.50.
Two small lattes a day (not a lot of caffeine) would save you a ton of money a
month with this plan.

If you drank even one cup of coffee a day, you'd save money with this, with
either plan. A lot of people drink a cup in the morning and the afternoon, and
that's where the savings really add up.

I'd personally be more interested in a hybrid plan that got me unlimited black
coffee and a certain amount of espresso drinks a month. I know they have a
more expensive plan with espresso drinks, but I don't want that daily. How
about a $65 plan?

It's a great idea though. If you live and work in an area with coffee shops
supported by this, you can basically have a monthly fee that covers all of
your coffee needs. You can also no longer worry about having any coffee
equipment in your apartment. Saving space is important to city dwellers.

If this came to DC, I'd strongly consider signing up for it. It's a great way
to encourage people to go to non-chains, and to make paying at non-chains
easier. Many of the big chains, including Starbucks, have long had ways to pay
for drinks with an app. That's part of what this product does, and why small
coffee shops would want to get on board.

~~~
mertd
By "pourover", they don't mean machine drip coffee. It's the coffee a barista
individually brews per order on a pourover cone. I've never seen it cheaper
than $3, including DC.

~~~
pwthornton
I know. I've gotten it for cheaper in DC, and at Starbucks they'll often make
pourover for the same price as drip coffee if you order at an odd hour.

I would imagine not all of the coffee shops on this list do pourover, and not
all users will want to wait for a pourover, if there is fresh drip coffee.

------
Cthulhu_
$45 per month? I get free coffee at work.

Well, I do now, they only recently changed the coffee machines to ones that
produce drinkable coffee. Before that I'd spend money to get decent coffee,
probably far more than this service is offering. Starbucks etc in this country
charge much more for regular coffee, probably due to a much lower volume /
amount sold.

------
achompas
If you're in NYC and want a good cup of coffee, check out one of these places:

Third Rail (got me through my first semester at NYU)

Stumptown (I'm usually at the 8th St. spot but the Ace Hotel location is just
as good)

Joe

Cafe Grumpy

Everyman Espresso

9th Street Espresso @ Chelsea Market

Note that none of these has signed up with CUPS. I doubt any of them will,
either, since (I bet) there are thin margins in selling excellent coffee.

~~~
jasonmc
I second every one of those Manhattan shops. Everyman is usually outstanding.
Also recommend Gimme coffee.

In Brooklyn there's a few more gems: Budin, Strangeways, Parlor.

------
D9u
Not one cup of coffee in over 50 years...

When someone offers all the beer I drink for one low monthly price, I'll be
signing up.

~~~
agotterer
I'm not sure this is possible in a retail setting. There are rules around
incentivizing the purchase of alcohol. Which is why you don't see promotions
like buy one get one free... with the exception of happy hour and bottomless
brunch sort of deals. Which have a whole different set of rules and
exceptions.

------
andrenotgiant
This will only exacerbate an existing problem at coffee shops in NYC: The
"Coffice" phenomenon where people use the coffee shop as their office.

Now these people will feel justified basically becoming a tenant of coffee
shops and leeching 4-5 coffees a day, leaving this startup with the empty
CUPS. :)

~~~
EC1
I never understood the coffee shop thing. I hate working at coffee shops,
people nosing around at what you're doing, never enough desk space, that
feeling of guilt once you stay there too long, etc.

~~~
SyneRyder
For me: I work solo from home, so sometimes I go to the coffee shop for a
change of atmosphere & to be around people for a while. I find the white noise
of the cafe helps me focus, as does having people around me. It's nice having
someone serve you instead of having to make your own coffee/food, and
sometimes the food is nicer than what I'd make myself at home. But I try not
to stay too long & only go at times when the cafe is half empty.

------
crazygringo
Interesting. At least one coffee shop in NYC has already done this on their
own, for only $25/mo (but it's only one location):

[http://www.yelp.com/biz/fair-folks-and-a-goat-new-
york-2](http://www.yelp.com/biz/fair-folks-and-a-goat-new-york-2)

~~~
thisisauserid
The subscription only gets your their ice coffee which is amazing and
incredibly strong. Everything in both of their stores is for sale (maybe even
including the furniture) but yes, only one location has a cafe.

------
AndyBaker
Once it's free - I'll bet you drink 2x as much.

~~~
aestra
Yep. The article said there is a similar program in Israel.

“They say they’re drinking more coffee than before, about 20 percent more,”
says Rotem (who, by the way, drinks four to six cups on a bad day). “Our users
save around 30 percent on coffee.”

~~~
mikepurvis
The word "user" seems strangely appropriate.

------
neverminder
When I used to live in Norway you could buy a coffee cup (an actual cup) from
Statoil (petrol station) and you could drink free coffee with that cup forever
(in Statoil stations of course). That was 7 years ago though, so it could have
changed by now.

~~~
mseebach
I'm pretty sure that's still a thing (in Denmark at least). It's a different
economic proposition, it's more of a "loyalty program" to make Statoil the
default choice for gas than an effective way to pay for coffee. Also, the
quality of the coffee wouldn't be competitive in NYC, to put it politely.

------
pacofvf
I've never though about it, but what Americans call "regular coffee" in my
country is called "American coffee". When I ask for a "coffee" I probably get
a latte or in Spanish "café con leche".

~~~
mseebach
Not quite. The "Americano" (espresso with hot water) common in countries with
the espresso coffee culture was invented during WW2 when the GIs requested
bigger cups of weaker coffee.

The american "regular coffee" is (weak) drip brewed coffee.

~~~
deltaqueue
Getting a bit pedantic, but a few corrections:

1\. That origin is just urban legend. Americanos started in the 70's.

2\. Per ounce, you're technically correct about the strength of espresso vs.
drip/brewed coffee. But brews have variable strengths, and most Americans
drink 12, 18, and 24 ounce drip coffees (which ends up being more caffeine
than even a quad shot of espresso).

~~~
gamblor956
Regarding #1, the urban legend legend is itself an urban legend. The only
sources for "Americanos" originating in the 1970s is a dictionary entry and
Wikipedia, neither of which are further sourced or authoritative.

Numerous historians, including coffee history specialists stick with the WWII
origin. Indeed, [http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/16/the-marines-
secret...](http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/16/the-marines-secret-
weapon-coffee/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0) *provides a picture of a Marine
drinking an "Americano" style coffee in 1944 and documents the role of coffee
in the US Military back to at least the civil war. See also
[http://www.vanhoutte.com/en-ca/c-the-coffee-blog/coffee-
cult...](http://www.vanhoutte.com/en-ca/c-the-coffee-blog/coffee-culture/the-
story-behind-the-americano).

------
drivingmenuts
That 30 minute limit would be the dealbreaker for me. I often drink one cup
just to get caffeine in, then immediately start another for either flavor or
more caffeine or to have something to do.

------
xntrk
As soon as the support more coffee shops in midtown i'm buying in.

The map they have of the indy coffee shops is something that does seem pretty
useful. At least to me.

------
jayvanguard
Are margins on coffee good enough to support this long term? High end coffee
is quite expensive as is square footage in small trendy coffee shops.

I suppose the odd abuser who parks their butt for 3-4 hrs a day in the coffee
shop can be dealt with in other ways e.g. they must order food to keep a seat.
If they are forced to walk to the coffee shop each time they will likely max
out at a few coffees a day.

~~~
pwthornton
I would imagine they are going to try to aim this at the business crowd. My
coworkers and I often go and get coffee together. We almost never actually sit
down. We talk on the walk to and from the coffee shop. We might take the
coffee to a nearby park.

I agree that this won't make business sense with people who use coffee shops
as an office.

------
lnlyplnt
I used this service while I was in Israel, and it's really amazing. CUPS pays
the coffeeshops for each cup you consume, so the shops treat you like a real
customer, not like a "groupon" customer. Honestly the biggest benefit is the
spontaneity of it all "should I get coffee? eh fuck it why not."

------
dvcc
$45 is not for the usual Starbucks Double Grande White Chocolate Mocha with
soy milk and two shots of vanilla flavoring, that would be $85. With at around
a 8% discount (rewards) and a price of $4 per drink it comes out to around 23
drinks. Or 1+ per weekday for the same amount.

Not the greatest deal for those users I guess.

------
ahoy
Espresso as a Service? I like it.

~~~
applecore
For $45 per month, you only get regular brewed coffee. Unlimited espresso is
$85 per month.

------
rickdale
This is great. I wish I could get this in the suburbs, with Tim Hortons on
delivery.

Recently I purchased a Keurig k-cup brewer. The machine wouldn't always pump
out water, so thinking I was screwed I ordered another Keurig brewer, this
time the Vue. $150 for the first Keurig, $100for the second. In the meantime I
purchased bullet proof coffee to give it a shot, thats an extra $45. So, in a
matter of 1 week I spent about $300 on just getting my home coffee situation
together. And I still go to Tim Hortons on my way home from purchasing coffee
at the grocery store, or if I am out.

FWIW, I called Keurig thinking they wouldn't do anything and they sent me a
brand new k-cup brewing machine that is in a box right next to me. But I do
love my K-Vue machine, its the best single cup @home experience I have been
able to find and I probably drink about $45 worth of coffee out of it each
day.

------
nathanmock
What's to stop me from buying coffee for all my friends as well?

~~~
sschwartz
The last paragraph of the article says, "For whatever it’s worth, fiendish
subscribers must adhere to at least one limitation: They must wait 30 minutes
before ordering another coffee."

~~~
rzt
Yes, there is that limit –– and a good one. You could get around it maybe if
you were with some friends doing a klatsch with staggered drinking rates and
drink start times, but then you'd just look really cheap.

~~~
jrs99
you could just ask for an empty cup and split the drink with a friend. then a
little bit later, get another one. During a long talk with a friend, you could
continue to do that and go through several cups. I don't think a random
barista who makes 10 bucks an hour will care, especially if you leave a tip.
The owner probably won't care because he makes more money every time you get a
cup of coffee.

------
jon_black
For $0 a month you can drink water from the tap. It's healthy and doesn't
require installing an app.

(Psst. You should be finding ways to balance your diet, not contribute to its
destruction.)

~~~
jp555
Coffee is very good for you.

Water from the tap is not free, it is a cost everyone pays in some way or
another (built into rent or part of property taxes). Even if you still live
with your parents, a dollar they spend on the water bill is a dollar less for
you.

~~~
mseebach
Tap water for drinking is effectively almost free, and free water fountains
are indeed ubiquitous. It's the two 30-minute showers a day that kill your
parents water (and heating) bills.

~~~
dingaling
> Tap water for drinking is effectively almost free

The average 2013 annual water rates bill in England is £390, or $650.

> and free water fountains are indeed ubiquitous

I've just been on a day-trip to England, through two major regional airports.
I paid about £12 in total for bottled water during the day, suffering inflated
airport shop prices, because there was not a single water fountain ( I asked
). Average price of a 750 ml bottle was around £2.20 and I had to gulp-and-
chuck frequently due to passing through security three times.

Coffee would have been cheaper...

~~~
mseebach
> The average 2013 annual water rates bill in England is £390, or $650.

Most of which is non-drinking uses of water, such as bathing, washing,
dishwashing, cleaning, flushing, garden irrigation, filling the pool etc.

I just paid £170 (IIRC, I don't have the bill handy, but around that amount)
for 65 m^3 of water. That's £.0026 per liter. The general recommendation is
for an adult to drink 2 liters of water a day and let's say an average english
family has four adults that get all their daily liquid intake from the home
tap (safely overestimating, I think you'll agree), that's £7.60 a year. I'm
sticking with "almost free".

------
dec0dedab0de
I wonder how they disperse the money to the various shops.

Edit: From the website "We pay you for each drink purchased at your awesome
coffee shop "

------
jonnii
If they can convince Zibetto on 6th Ave to sign up I'll immediately give them
$45/month. It'll save me a fortune!

------
themoonbus
Does everything need to be made into a monthly service? In the past day, I've
seen razors, coffee, socks...

------
rainmaking
This sounds like a devilish proposition, only surpassed by "All the
amphetamines you can ingest".

I like it :)

------
reddit_clone
As someone who had quit coffee cold turkey a month ago, this thread is pure
torture for me to read.

------
dllthomas
The fact that this spans multiple coffee shops is the most interesting thing
here, I think.

------
chm
That's innovation. Simple, elegant, disturbs the equilibrium. Great idea!

------
Thiz
I am not a coffee drinker but this is what I do when I crave for one:

Two cups of water in a blender. Add a teaspoon of instant coffee, a teaspoon
of sugar, two spoons of powdered milk. Mix it all for ten seconds.

Pour in two cups. Put in the microwave for a minute.

Enjoy a delicious capuccino with a partner.

~~~
Cthulhu_
> instant coffee

Begone, plebe! :p

------
duaneb
How does this improve over a french press and $15 of coffee grounds?

~~~
r00fus
Time saved in procuring said grounds, making the coffee, cleaning the press,
increase in variety and availability (many locations) and likely increase in
quality depending on your skills/preference.

------
jrs99
reminds me of a seinfeld episode.

------
AznHisoka
Great! Too bad I drink 0 coffees a month. It gives me panic attacks, and makes
me pee-pee/boo-boo twice as much:(

------
hiphopyo
Wait, before you all drink up, check out the CAFFEINATED documentary (the
actual documentary starts at 4:19). Ever wonder why Barack Obama doesn't drink
coffee?

Pt. 1:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OecTZBjFvw#t=259](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OecTZBjFvw#t=259)

Pt. 2:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qncmE7O7wg4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qncmE7O7wg4)

~~~
nfoz
I'd prefer a link to some scientific discussion about the problems with
caffeine.

~~~
hiphopyo
Same here. I love coffee but as with other drugs I get this vague notion that
it's not always good for me. There's plenty of research over at
[http://pubmed.com](http://pubmed.com) and
[http://liebertpub.com](http://liebertpub.com) if you're interested.

[http://edition.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/caffeine/NU00600.html](http://edition.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/caffeine/NU00600.html)

