

Show HN: Birth Control As A Service - jaldoretta
http://www.readytogroove.com/

======
jaldoretta
For everyone wondering about this method, it's called the sympto-thermal
method and is _not_ the same as the rhythm method. Planned Parenthood lists it
as 99.6% effective with perfect use. See the "What is the Sympto-thermal
Method" section in the link below:

[http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/birth-
control...](http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/birth-
control/fertility-awareness-4217.htm)

~~~
jthacker
The 99.6% effectiveness statistic comes from the planned parenthood website
and I'm assuming they quoted it from this study since they do not cite their
source
[http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/22/5/1310.short](http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/22/5/1310.short)

99.6% is the method-effectiveness (i.e. the efficacy if used properly) or 0.4
unintended pregnancies per 100 "women years" (13 cycles)

Other interesting results from the study: \- the method-effectiveness rate
found for this method is comparable to oral contraceptive \- 9.2% stopped
using the method due to dissatisfaction \- Couples that had intercourse during
the fertile period had an increased pregnancy rate of 7.5% \- This study was
done in European countries and the pregnancy rate was lower than similar
studies performed in developing countries

------
servowire
Albeit a great app, this method is less reliable than having proper birth
control at hand.

I see mentions of "But it's 1.8% failure rate!" \- thing about Cumulative
Probability is, that is a pretty high number of failure after about 10 years.

After 10 years you have a Cumulative Probability: P(X = 1) of about 15% of
getting pregnant.

If you don't want to be a dad/mom - use a condom. Or go double dutch.

~~~
burgeralarm
Fortunately, probabilities for birth control methods aren't presented in this
way. Generally, when an organization like Planned Parenthood says that the
symptothermal method is 99.6% effective, what they really mean is:

"Of 100 couples who use the symptothermal method correctly for one year, 0.4
(fewer than one) will have a pregnancy." (Source:
[http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/birth-
control...](http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/birth-
control/fertility-awareness-4217.htm))

So after about 100 years of using this method, you've got a .4% chance of
becoming pregnant. Seems like decent odds to me.

~~~
IanCal
> So after about 100 years of using this method, you've got a .4% chance of
> becoming pregnant. Seems like decent odds to me.

No, after _one_ year you've got a 0.4% chance of being pregnant. Assuming this
stays steady over 100 years, you'd have a 33% chance of being pregnant (1 -
(0.996 ^ 100))

Their maths for a 1.8% failure rate over 10 years is right, it's about 15%.

------
dbla
I'm a little bit confused. The title mentions birth control but the website is
talking mostly about fertility. Is this a tool to help women get pregnant or
prevent pregnancy?

~~~
MaxGabriel
Apparently both. On this page
[http://www.readytogroove.com/app/](http://www.readytogroove.com/app/), it
explains how you can learn which days you are or are not fertile.

Is this really a reliable birth control method though?

~~~
nsxwolf
This is Fertility Awareness / Natural Family Planning[1], branded in a way
that will be more palatable to a secular Silicon Valley audience.

My wife and I use NFP. This is actually the slickest app I've ever seen.

It's pretty reliable if you want to use it for birth control, provided the
woman has at least somewhat regular cycles. Even with irregular cycles,
there's useful information that can be gleaned from cervical mucus and basal
body temperature.

It's probably not for people who absolutely cannot tolerate one or two
"surprise" children, but it will at least prevent you from becoming the
Duggars if that's not your thing.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_family_planning](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_family_planning)

~~~
ntaso
Sorry to say so, but you're wrong about two things:

1\. A women doesn't have to have a regular cycle for this method to be safe.
Why? Because if the cycle is irregular, the cycle cannot be evaluated /
charted and you have to assume fertility.

2\. The method is as safe as the pill. The risk for getting "surprise
children" is the same as with the pill.

~~~
nsxwolf
For your objection to (1), you'd be right if we were talking about the rhythm
method, but we aren't. There are other signs of impending fertility that can
be tracked.

------
bsimpson
Misleading title.

It's a fertility tracking app. There are dozens of those.

When I see "{physical thing} as a service", I expect some sort of monthly
fulfillment service, like Dollar Shave Club.

~~~
ChuckMcM
Agreed on the title, there is an old joke, "Question: What do you call people
who are using the rhythm method for birth control? Answer: Parents." As a
fertility timer to help people maximize their chance of conception though I
think it is probably a useful tool.

~~~
ntaso
Scroll all the way down in the comments here, that joke has been told before
and downvoted for its unrelatedness. This app is based on the symptothermal
method, not the rhythm method.

~~~
ChuckMcM
Fair enough. Various folks seem to put it slightly above the rhythm method in
practice [an example [1]] and pretty much less effective than any mechanical
system [2]. The original joke was a statement on the variability of trying to
gauge the internal state of the system versus mechanically disarming the
system. And in that analysis it still holds.

Nothing is quite so impresses as a natural system that has evolved through
selective pressure to be effective in so many adverse situations.

[1]
[http://www.fertility.com.au/Docs/Contraception/Contraception...](http://www.fertility.com.au/Docs/Contraception/Contraception%20Success%20Rates.pdf)

[2]
[http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/UnintendedPregnancy/PD...](http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/UnintendedPregnancy/PDF/Contraceptive_methods_508.pdf)

~~~
ntaso
Please check this long-term study:
[http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/22/5/1310.short](http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/22/5/1310.short)

It's as effective as the pill. But you're right that it doesn't provide birth
control during the fertile days.

It depends on how you define birth control. Is it something that enables you
to have sex during fertile days or is it something that enables you to know
more about your fertility?

So, seen in the first way, the sympto-thermal method is just a method for
observing natural processes. Nothing that prevents pregnancy during the
fertile window.

If you want mechanical birth control, there are really only three reversible
options: condoms, IUD, diaphragm. Everything else that's reliable is based on
hormones. In that light, I think it's a good idea to use the sympto-thermal
method to be at least 50% less dependant on other mechanical tools.

------
burkesquires
The app looks great. Does it work for the Creighton Model
([http://www.creightonmodel.com](http://www.creightonmodel.com)) as well?

Also, you may want to get added to this list:
[http://contraception.about.com/od/naturalmethods/tp/fertilit...](http://contraception.about.com/od/naturalmethods/tp/fertility_apps.htm)

~~~
jaldoretta
I suppose you could technically use the Creighton Model with our app, though
it's not the method we provide educational info for.

------
kvnn
> Upgrade your account to practice natural and effective birth control, get
> pregnant easily, or take control of your reproductive health.

"Get pregnant easily" is not something you should be advertising. There are
tons of reasons why someone can have trouble getting pregnant that are
completely external to your app. Just a heads up.

~~~
jaldoretta
Yes, very true. Perhaps the wording should be revisited. Thanks for the
feedback!

------
wehadfun
Is there anyway boyfriends can get access to this?

~~~
tvirelli
Yeah! Would be great if it synced so that I could get a "Go" or "No Go"
signal!

~~~
herbig
Go or no go where? Am I missing something?

~~~
rkuykendall-com
The app is designed to provide birth control by letting you know when have
sex, or when to not have sex. He was asking for a companion app without all
the management, just the current status.

------
upofadown
After having read the HN headline I had an impression of someone hiring
someone else to carry a bucket of water around during dates...

------
moeffju
This doesn’t seem to be available in any of the worldwide stores except the US
store. Is a worldwide release coming?

------
ntaso
Kudos to you, it's alway great so see people talking about natural birth
control methods without mentioning _God_ or _religion_ in the same sentence.
It's virtually impossible to find good resources about the sympto-thermal
method in English without landing on a very Christian-oriented website.

But I'm wondering: What's the business model you have?

I'm asking, because I'm in the same space. Mostly in Germany, but I also have
an app for the English-speaking population:
[http://mynfp.net/](http://mynfp.net/)

It costs 5.99$ and it's certainly nothing I can live from alone. However, the
app is just an "appendix" to my SaaS business which is the same thing, but
bigger and better, which generates revenue to be sunstainable in the long
term.

~~~
nsxwolf
You can't find secular versions of NFP because the hormonal birth control and
sterilization industry created what they felt was the perfect no muss, no fuss
solution, and couldn't imagine why anyone but the "religious crazies" could
possibly want an alternative to it.

You can thank the religious people for continuing to develop the science over
the decades when the world went absolutely bananas for the pill.

~~~
sounds
So if I'm understanding you right, industry as a whole chose a method which
though it has benefits also has drawbacks – so much so that they ignored
research?

And it was religious people who continued fundamental research?

Very interesting! And not what I've seen in other cases. I'm happy to have my
stereotypes challenged.

~~~
ntaso
He's at least partly right. Most studies in this area are directly or
indirectly sponsored by the church. This doesn't make the sympto-thermal
method a religious thing and the studies are still scientific, but the church
was one of the few who gave financial aid.

Thing is, the method can be done on a piece of paper. So far, not many people
had commercial interest in further research. The few who had, used their
finances to build birth-control monitors (a piece of hardware) and tied their
studies to their specific products.

So, yeah, the church definitely put money in it whereas not many corporations
or investors did.

------
jpollock
Seriously, rhythm method is not effective birth control (24% failure
rate/year). Please don't rely on it!

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_met...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods#Comparison_table)

~~~
jaldoretta
See the "What is the Sympto-Thermal Method" section:
[http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/birth-
control...](http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/birth-
control/fertility-awareness-4217.htm)

EDIT: posted the wrong link before...sorry =)

------
dsr_
Q: What do you call a woman who depends on the rhythm method for birth
control?

A: A mother.

As a tool to help you get pregnant, awesome, kudos, very well done.

Promoting it for birth control? Not very clever.

[http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/birth-
control...](http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/birth-
control/birth-control-effectiveness-chart-22710.htm)

~~~
jaldoretta
It's a common misconception that the method our app relies on is the same as
the rhythm method, which it is NOT. The rhythm method _predicts_ fertility
based on cycle length, which is a really BAD idea. The sympto-thermal method
pinpoints the fertile window using scientifically-backed signs of fertility.

Planned Parenthood lists an effectiveness of 99.6% (see the "What is the
Sympto-thermal Method" section: [http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-
topics/birth-control...](http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/birth-
control/fertility-awareness-4217.htm)

~~~
dsr_
I apologize for conflating the rhythm method and the sympto-thermal method.

It's still a bad idea for most people.

All from the same Planned Parenthood site:

Twenty-four out of every 100 couples who use fertility awareness-based methods
each year will have a pregnancy if they don't always use the method correctly
or consistently.

whereas:

Vasectomy is the most effective birth control for men. It is nearly 100
percent effective.

and

Less than 1 out of 100 women will get pregnant each year if they use an IUD.

\---

I want to control my systems. I have many choices: Puppet, Chef, cfengine,
writing my own system... you're offering me a system that requires maintenance
every single day, I can't pay someone else to do it for me, and if I screw up,
it's 76% likely that I won't have unintended consequences. But there are a
bunch of other systems on the market where I configure them once and they work
for years without attention, and even systems where I just have to be picky
when I'm conducting operations, not every single day.

~~~
wayward
The 24% failure rate cited by Planned Parenthood includes ALL couples who
claimed to be using fertility awareness, from those who had taken classes and
were using a modern method, to those who were just guessing. IIRC, over 80% of
the couples were not properly trained in a modern method of fertility
awareness. Not surprisingly, they had very high pregnancy rates. Someone did
the math (can't find the article) and figured untrained users had about a 28%
pregnancy rate while trained users had a 7% pregnancy rate. (80 * .28 + 20 *
.07) = 23.8 The 7% pregnancy rate is comparable to the real-world use of the
Pill.

As for your system analogy, if your automated system was a significant
resource hog or ran the risk of corruption of data or crashing the system,
would you use it? You focus on efficacy without factoring in side effects.

