

Orion - web based IDE from Eclipse - hencq
http://borisoneclipse.blogspot.com/2011/01/orion.html

======
mynegation
I think it is a very good initiative. 15 years ago many did not believe that
web is a good platform for e-mail. I would use web-based IDE for all the same
reasons I use web-based e-mail: accessible from everywhere, no setup,
portability and consistency across operating systems, new features available
immediately without me worrying.

~~~
anthonycerra
There was an episode of This Week in Startups with DHH as a guest where a
Shark Tank caller pitched his web-based IDE. I was surprised to see both
Calacanis and Hansson shit all over the idea. For the reasons you mention,
it's a great idea. Off topic - it's really interesting to observe people
making poor judgments when they're blinded by their own success.

------
jasonkester
Gotta admire their determination to keep finding new ways to slow down the
performance of Eclipse. Seems that Moore's law finally caught up with them and
they couldn't produce two second waits for menus to appear in desktop Java
anymore, so they had to step it up and port to Javascript.

Given what we've come to expect from an IDE these days (think IntelliJ or
VS.NET + ReSharper), it's tough to imagine a browser-based version being all
that compelling. I've actually worked for extended periods using a browser-
based editor while traveling, but it really wasn't that pleasant. I don't
think I'd consider doing it if I was sitting at my main dev box.

~~~
Groxx
re 2nd paragraph: but isn't that a fantastic reason for them / others to be
attempting to make a usable one? However unusably slow it may be (though their
users are used to that by now)?

~~~
pasbesoin
A few years ago (and probably still), a lot of companies had interest in
tighter control over source code and development environments. This would be
one possible move supporting that direction. (I haven't read up on Orion,
yet.)

I can imagine some developers not liking some aspect of that. But there are a
lot of people sitting at their desks, putting in their 8 or 10 or whatever.
And if you're outsourcing, suddenly you're giving the contractors access to a
web page and only the components they're working on, rather than the whole
shebang.

I think I'd find it kind of / rather frustrating, but it wouldn't be the first
work environment to generate those feelings.

~~~
Groxx
> _suddenly you're giving the contractors access to a web page and only the
> components they're working on, rather than the whole shebang._

Isn't this already doable? Just make separate binaries for the sections you
want, all you need to distribute are the interfaces (header files, etc) to
build against. Whether companies actually _do_ so or not is a different issue
entirely, and yes, something simpler may increase its use, but I fail to see
how this would _actually_ change anything but frequency.

~~~
pasbesoin
In some cases. But I've seen environments where this wouldn't even begin to be
possible.

I used the word "contractors", but I could also apply the description to
direct employees located in different countries.

This also keeps the source from being located (other than a page at a time, as
it were) in those jurisdictions. (Also, potentially, sensitive test data.)

My experience may have been an anomaly, but after tackling duplicate systems
and builds, attendant source control issues, latency in rich client
development tools, blah, blah, there was a growing push to bring everything
back and keep it "on the mothership". One step was having people essentially
remote in to local hosts via Citrix.

Webification was happening initially for project management tools, but
eventually, if they could give everybody web pages and be done with it (except
for those directly maintaining the infrastructure), Management and IT would
have been very happy.

A lot of these aspects may be, initially at least, "big company" problems. But
my -- admittedly limited -- perception is that, in those environments, they
are on a lot of people's radar.

(I'm suddenly reminded of the recent tussle that IBM went through with the
Russian government, to ensure that they could use encryption/security IBM
deemed sufficient/necessary on development environments for developers located
in Russia.)

------
johnwatson11218
Desktop Eclipse can compile my code for me as I type it and show compile
errors in red. I truly believe that in a few years something like this can be
running test suites on another server as I type. It may not work exactly the
same but the idea is there. You will know very soon that you have broken some
regression test - or that your code as it exists in the editor would break a
test if checked in.

All in all I am a big fan of this idea. I spend way too much tome fiddling
around with the settings in desktop Eclipse and even when I get it working I
know it is only temporary.

~~~
moe
_I truly believe that in a few years something like this can be running test
suites on another server as I type._

Welcome to the future; Hudson (and probably other CI suites) can do this
today.

~~~
johnwatson11218
yea but I thought I had to check in the code before those tools could come
into play. I think they could run if I pause editing my code and it happens to
compile.

~~~
moe
With a little bit of scripting you can have your local working copy rsync'ed
to a build-server at regular intervals.

I think there's even a hudson-plugin for that but I can't remember the name
right now.

Granted, this still requires you to _save_ your code before changes become
visible, but honestly I don't see how an even finer granularity would help
anything.

------
intellectronica
Tried to install this and it doesn't really work. Cloud9 looks _much_ more
mature, and I like that the server is also written in JS.

Development is definitely going online, but I doubt that Eclipse will have a
significant part in this transformation.

------
grammr
I think IDEs will be one of the last classes of applications to move from the
desktop to the Web. In addition to the usability challenges of running a
highly complex application in a browser, there are also a ton of
security/access issues that will need to be addressed to make a Web-based IDE
useful.

We often need full, unrestricted access to the machines we're coding on, as
well as the ability to obtain and use a ton of different tools alongside an
IDE. Bringing this kind of freedom and flexibility to a browser is going to be
tough.

------
flashgordon
I think this is a great step forward (though does anyone remember mozilla's
online IDE efforts - bespin?). Has a more special place in my heart since Ive
been "thinking" about doing something similar for years.

Plus I think this (and/or bespin) would make it a lot easier to combine RFS5
(Development on hand helds) and RFS6 (iPad applications)!!! Cant wait.. My
hour long train rides to the city would be a lot more productive without
having to carry a laptop!

------
sophacles
So whether or not this specifically is going to pan out to anything, it has a
fantastic nugget of an idea in the middle of it: There will be web-based API
standards for tools dealing with code. These APIs represent a good thing, as
now perhaps people will start creating great code tools to the API instead of
to a specific editor/ide. As such, we get a start to the "standard code tools
interface" I've wanted for a really really long time.

tl;dr -- this could be the start of the end of "use this IDE because it can do
X and this other IDE for Y" and the beginning of "Point your editor to Z for
this functionality!"

------
rgbrgb
"IDEs are big honking applications that take a while to load, use up all your
computer's resources, and come loaded with features that you don't even know
existed."

This is why I hate Eclipse.

------
lookforipv6
i think is a good idea. the final product is not ready yet but it is a step
forward for ide development. It could also boost collaborative work among
developers and it might improve security and availability(keeping the code
away from the developer desktop it easier to backup, avoid code stealing,
etc.)

