
Ask HN: Leaving the video game industry. - animosity
Do any of you have experience leaving the video game industry? Can you say what kind of software you now work on, or how you explained your career shift to subsequent employers?<p>I've worked as a software engineer on video games for 2.5 years (after undergrad in cs). This was a mistake. I absolutely never feel a sense of satisfaction or accomplishment with anything i produced. 9 hours a day i stare at the products we make and wonder why anyone anywhere pays for them (clueless customers or idiotic publishers).<p>After work i tool around a lot with web-oriented technologies. I enjoy the ethos of languages like python and javascript, and i think work could be more interesting if those were the technologies i used professionally. My industry experience has been entirely C++ based though. Can i somehow spin this as a good thing?<p>I've also been thinking, my skill set may be transferable to  mobile platforms since they are bound by hardware in a way similar to games on consoles.
======
Sirocco
Most of the people I know from the industry got out after five or so years,
and started up their own small outfits, or went indie. Game development sounds
sexy and fun, but unless you're at the top of the food chain calling the
shots, you're usually an overworked drone. Worse yet, you may end up working
yourself to death on a slew of titles you have no particular interest in.

I adopted the opposite approach because I'm a control freak and can't stand
working on other peoples' projects. I kept my day job as a programmer outside
the game sector, and indie it up in my spare time.

Don't feel bad if you want to bail. You're most definitely not alone in that
respect. The way to spin your experience to potential employers is to
emphasize how demanding game development is: tight scheduling, zero percent
bug tolerance, rapidly changing standards, performance is always an issue,
etc.

~~~
animosity
actually, another reason i want to leave the video game industry is so i can
work in my free time on my own projects without violating these bullshit non-
compete contracts.

so your day job was also programming games? can you point me to some of the
indie stuff you've made. and out of curiosity - which country are you in?

edit: "day job was also programming _games_ " - i got that you were
programming.

~~~
Sirocco
Sorry, I got sidetracked. Holidays and whatnot :)

My day job has always been outside the gaming industry. I do programming for
the industrial automation sector in America. Robotics, PLCs, manufacturing...
that sort of stuff. It's interesting at times, but not particularly
challenging. The pay is good, but we're somewhat of a dying breed. Most new
programmers move into the web apps or networking side of things. Some days I'm
not even sure how I got into this stuff!

As for my games, I've piddled around for the last decade or so making old
SNES-style games. You can find some examples of my past work at
(callofcodethulhu.com) and (<http://www.allegro.cc/members/sirocco/projects>).
I'm about a month or less away from finishing my latest project, so it's a
total grind-o-rama around my house when I get home from work.

------
corin_
Are you sure that you really want to leave the games industry? Based on what
you've said, it seems quite possible that you'd be just as happy if you moved
to a new company where you could be able to enjoy your work and take pride in
the games you help make.

I just ask because if there is a way for you to really enjoy your work without
having to move into a completely new industry, you might find the move a lot
easier.

~~~
animosity
i think it's quite possible that i will never be happy working as a software
engineer in any industry.

but i can virtually guarantee i'll never be happy in the video game industry.
the vast majority of video games are utter crap. it's astounding what pretty
marketing can fool people into paying for.

the entire process suffers from a tremendous lack of formality because it's a
"creative" product. the code quality is atrocious because everyone is chasing
a moving target, and apparently there just isn't time to document anything.

i also have the sense that i'm not developing any particular skill set beyond
dealing with excruciatingly undocumented apis & debugging excruciatingly
unstable code (because the industry refuses to adopt developments in
abstracting memory management - the vast majority of most games DO NOT need to
be written in C++, despite what everyone would have you believe).

there's also this expectation that i'm in it for the love of video-games,
because why else would i put up with these shitty hours and pay? fool me once.

i've actually worked at two video game companies (due to immigration issues),
at two different extremes in terms of number of employees, etc. AND IT'S THE
SAME BULLSHIT EVERYWHERE.

so again, getting out of the video game industry is just a last ditch attempt
at staying in the larger software industry. it mystifies me that i spend the
majority of my free time enthralled by the latest developments in
software/technology (i definitely look forward to google i/o more than
christmas), and yet i hate every moment of my professional life - but there
you have it.

~~~
dkersten
Disclaimer: I have no professional game development experience.

It sounds like you were working on shovelware for EA or someone like that.
From having spoken to people who work in the games industry (though not just
games per se, but middleware too: demonware and havok are two who are active
in my area), I don't think this applies accross the board. Havok, for example,
doesn't fall into the "code quality is atrocious" category (don't believe me?
while you can't grab the source code, you can however use the library free of
charge on PC's). From reading online forums and such, it seems to me that
there are some really great game development houses who do have a lot of fun
with what they do, do learn interesting and new things and so on. Definitely
not all, but they do exist.

Sadly, I agree that a lot of games don't put as much effort into code quality
as they should (which is why we have to put up with crashes and bugs and post-
release patches...), but I really do believe that its not as bad as you make
it out to be.

So, my advice would be to ditch the shitty money-crazed shovelware companies
and find a small development shop which does it for fun and enjoyment just as
much as for money.

Of course, even then the games industry might not appeal to you. At the end of
the day, only you know for sure, so if you're unhappy, then by all means move
on. As for where to - what have you worked on? (eg, 3d graphics? game ai?
physics?) What do you enjoy doing/what areas would you like to work in
instead? Its tough to give advice without knowing what your relevant skills
and interests are. (Or, what in particular interests you about mobile
platforms?)

As for C++, being good at programming in C and C++ is always a bonus. You make
it sound like its dirty to have C++ experience! (I certainly hope not, I've
written a lot of C++ code myself.. still do when it makes sense to).
Everything you've been doing in C++ can _probably_ be applied elsewhere.

~~~
animosity
> _It sounds like you were working on shovelware for EA or someone like that._

direct hit.

> _find a small development shop which does it for fun and enjoyment just as
> much as for money._

i thought i'd found that at my present company but it's the same crap. i was
really naive about this place.

> _As for where to - what have you worked on_

this is the most worrying part. i used to focus on graphics, but what these
operations need is someone competent to deal with a broad range of issues. and
that's what i've been shafted into doing.

> _You make it sound like its dirty to have C++ experience!_

i didn't mean for it to sound like that. i worry that people who make hiring
decisions won't see beyond their keyword filters though.

~~~
dkersten
Well, assuming you don't want to try again with another game development
company, I'd say look around for something that interests you and just apply.
Don't worry if your current skills aren't a perfect match - you're experience
(C++, graphics/performance-sensitive code, teamwork, tight deadlines, etc -
the stuff other people mentioned) means you can probably pick up whatever you
need on the way without much trouble and a good developer (assuming you're not
applying to a big company with a clueless HR team...) should be able to spot
that.

I found that having a background in C++, before moving to other languages
(Python at first, now clojure wherever I can get away with using it) actually
helped me program better. C++ makes you careful about managing resources
almost to the point of paranoia - at least manual memory management does that
to me :) and the C++ performance myth makes me pay a lot more attention at
making sure my code is fast, regardless of language (though thankfully I've
managed to kick the premature optimization habit in favour of choosing
appropriate algorithms). I don't think I'd have picked up Python and Clojure
(and Java and...) as easily if I hadn't went through the C++ pains, so you're
epxeirence should serve you well. With a bit of luck, whoever you end up
interviewing with will recognize that.

