
Why 2016 is such a terrible year for the Mac - grzm
http://www.macworld.com/article/3138087/macs/why-2016-is-such-a-terrible-year-for-the-mac.html
======
rsync
The problem with Apple is that they have _solved_ certain use cases and form
factors - and once solved, there is less and less money to be made on fine
tuning and iterating on those designs.

For example:

Apple solved the laptop computer with the aluminum, unibody macbook (air ?)
with chiclet keys and glass screen/trackpad. That's it. It's over. The laptop
computer is solved - and all anyone wanted was a retina macbook air. That's it
- that's all we wanted. The same old macbook air with magsafe, multiple USB
ports and a graphics port. With retina.

Another example is the Mac Pro (tower) - this is a long-standing form factor
in computing that is now solved. There is no doing this better than Apple did
it with the last versions (2009 and later) of the mac pro tower. All anybody
wanted was a Mac Pro tower with sata3 and usb3 and newer gfx connections.
That's it - it was solved.

But we didn't get any of those things, did we ?

Minor iterations of existing designs are not enough for Apple - they have to
do new things for economic reasons.

Honestly, as someone who has no interest in an ipad or an iphone or an iwatch
and has always worried that focus on those items would cannibalize Mac and OSX
... looking back _I wish they had focused even more_ on the iDevices and just
left the Mac products alone - albeit with the little iterations of
processor/ram/usb3/sata3/etc.

~~~
johncolanduoni
You're going to need a lot more evidence to support the extraordinary claim
that Apple "solved" any of these in a final way. Especially considering every
MacBook Pro review I read picks out specific, non-iterative features of
competing products that the author wishes Apple considered.

I have all Macs, and I'd be pretty pissed at the universe if the best laptops
feasible in this reality were just my current hardware when you take the limit
as versions of USB and Thunderbolt tend towards infinity.

~~~
rsync
"You're going to need a lot more evidence to support the extraordinary claim
that Apple "solved" any of these in a final way. Especially considering every
MacBook Pro review I read picks out specific, non-iterative features of
competing products that the author wishes Apple considered."

I think you're referring to touchscreen/convertible/etc. ?

I don't think those are laptops. They're interesting and exciting and _maybe
they are even better than laptops_. But they are not laptops.

"I have all Macs, and I'd be pretty pissed at the universe if the best laptops
feasible in this reality were just my current hardware when you take the limit
as versions of USB and Thunderbolt tend towards infinity."

Why ?

I'm happy with hammers just the way they are. Sure, I'd like a superlight,
super strong hammer made of unobtanium, but _the form factor doesn 't need to
change_.

------
tomkadwill
I think a lot of devs use a mac because they get a UNIX machine without the
hassle of installing linux. Now, it feels like the barrier to entry for
installing linux is falling and at the same time the mac has stopped evolving.
Also, the price seems to have jumped significantly (I live in the UK so part
of that is exchange rate)

~~~
dangoor
It's not that _installing_ Linux is a hassle. I just love a lot of the apps I
can run on my Mac. OmniFocus, 1Password and DevonThink are two I have running
now. I've also got OmniGraffle, Affinity Photo/Designer, Pixelmator and
Keynote at least that I use fairly regularly (and I'm sure I'm forgetting
some). I do a fair bit that is cross-platform and would work fine on Linux,
but there are a lot of Mac-specific apps that are really well designed and a
joy to use and I would miss them.

(And, yes, there are open source replacements for all of these that run on
Linux. I know, but the UX is not the same!)

~~~
lj3
> It's not that installing Linux is a hassle. I just love a lot of the apps I
> can run on my Mac.

I think that's a huge X factor a lot of the latest discussions are missing.
People _LOVE_ MacOS apps. They're beautiful. They work well. They're typically
fast. They're user friendly. Windows and Linux apps are none of those things.
In my experience, Mac users don't mind paying for Mac apps because they tend
to be of high quality. Windows and Linux users won't pay for apps unless they
absolutely have to because the quality of the available apps varies so much.

~~~
sylv3r
> People LOVE MacOS apps

While true, a lot of us can live with less beautiful machines and software
especially if the prettier machine makes us break our workflow (ie how to vim
without an esc button)

~~~
splintercell
Even if you have an escape key, you shouldn't really be using the physical
Escape key for Esc, it's against the philosophy of Vim.

------
rch
One thing the article seems to miss is that the Mac Pro wasn't well received
when it was released either, so lack of updates isn't an issue. Everything I
used to do with those machines is now happily running elsewhere, so an update
would be irrelevant.

The same thing could happen with the MBP if enough people are as frustrated as
I am.

~~~
jacquesc
I bought a Mac Pro in 2013 (the entry level model) and have been using it
reliably for about 3 years.

With two 27 inch lcds, and a thunderbolt external drive, it's been solid
development machine. I can also boot an external windows drive to play PC
games, with ok performance on the last gen of games. The form factor is great
for traveling (I can stuff it in a suitcase and take it anywhere).

Last few weeks it's been kernel panicking a couple times a day (when under
heavy stress). And it'd be nice to have upgraded GPU to play the latest batch
of PC games (and VR).

I'm pretty disappointed Apple has made zero updates to this model in over 1000
days. Given how much use I'd gotten out of this machine, it's hard to say it's
been a mistake purchasing it. But there's also not really much I can do to
upgrade it since external GPUs don't really work with Thunderbolt 2.

My guess is the Mac Pro line gets quietly discontinued by next year. 15 yrs
ago I bought a G4 Cube, some lessons I never learn.

~~~
inatreecrown
> I can also boot an external windows drive

I didn't know this was possible. Does this work only on the Mac Pro?

~~~
AlexeyBrin
Works on all Macs (tried on MacBook Air and Pro), the problem is convincing
Windows to install on the external drive. If you have a Windows Pro license
you could use Windows to Go and install it on an external drive.

~~~
johncolanduoni
It's not _too_ hard with Windows 10 to do the Windows To Go process manually
in UEFI mode. I've had pretty good luck with online guides.

------
ebbv
I think Apple has definitely over-optimized the MacBook Pro for thinness and
lightness. Those are both nice qualities for a Pro product but they should not
be weighted so heavily that they give up important features like MagSafe and
limit hardware specs in impactful ways (like the 16GB of RAM limitation.)

I've seen commentators (Gruber) make the false claim that Apple COULDN'T
deliver a MacBook Pro with good battery life and more than 16GB of RAM because
Intel doesn't make it possible. That's horse apples. It would just have to be
a thicker product with more battery capacity.

I love Apple and I love my rMBP and my iMac. But I'm actually hoping that this
new MacBook Pro fails miserably so that Apple pulls back and refocuses on
making true pro products. As a professional who has used Macs exclusively for
my livelihood I have absolutely no reason to upgrade from my 4 year old rMBP
to a new one. It brings nothing to the table that helps me do my job.

~~~
chrischen
I would like to provide a counterpoint. I think in a laptop thinness and
lightness is one of the most important factors to me as a pro user, otherwise
I'd get an iMac. People who buy a macbook are not trying to get a desktop
replacement. The whole point of a laptop is portability.

Their breaking online preorder sales records indicate that they've made the
right choice.

~~~
ebbv
> I think in a laptop thinness and lightness is one of the most important
> factors to me as a pro user, otherwise I'd get an iMac

What? I have an iMac and a rMBP. Just because the rMBP has to be portable
doesn't mean it has to prioritize thinness and lightness over functionality.

> Their breaking online preorder sales records indicate that they've made the
> right choice.

Not really. It's an industry trick that Apple and others use. They control how
many units are available at launch, and then the next time they launch a
product they make slightly more products available and they say "Oh hey look
we broke our previous launch record!" What a shocker!

Yes the fact that demand beats supply is an indicator that the market wants
this product, but that's because many people are overdue for an upgrade. There
has been a lot of outcry about the problems with this product.

The real indicator will be if it continues to sell over the next year or if
sales drop after initial launch demand.

I honestly don't expect sales to be that bad because the reality is the
majority of people who buy MBPs are not professionals. It's not truly a
product focused on Pros, it's just Apple's upmarket laptop.

~~~
chrischen
I am a professional, and a mobile one at that. The new macbook is hands down
the best laptop on the market.

I for one hope Apple doesn't cave to design by vocal committee.

I trust they made their choices of lower memory for better battery performance
well. I trust they didn't implement a full touch screen because they tried it
and it _doesn 't work in practice_.

People may whine, but I challenge any of them to name a better laptop, and
then use it!

------
mark_l_watson
My almost six year old MBA 13 is in bad shape with the keyboard worn out and
on its 3rd battery. Lots of heavy use. It was a good value.

For two weeks I have been looking at Asus Zen Books, Surface 4 Pro, Dell xps
13 Linux edition, etc.

Yesterday I bought a MacBook, even though it was not really what I was looking
for. It does not seem very solid so I set a calendar alert for 11 months to
buy Apple Care for it. This will be the first time I have ever bought Apple
Care. So, the total cost will be about $1500 to get a laptop that should be
good for at least three years.

Performance wise, it is better than I expected. It is very quick using
IntelliJ, and reasonable using Haskell + Emacs + Intero. I am getting an
adapter Monday for my large monitor.

Except for the high cost, I think I will be happy enough with my new MacBook.

~~~
dmd
If you know you're going to buy Applecare, why wait 11 months to do so? The
coverage starts from the purchase of the computer, not of Applecare.

~~~
mark_l_watson
My local non-official Apple/PC store recommended postponing paying for it. It
makes no difference in the length of coverage but you don't pay Apple for the
insurance coverage until the end of the free warranty period.

~~~
iheartmemcache
Amex automagically doubles the warranty period for up to a year, even for
their 'generic' cards. $249 to cover years 2 and 3 aren't really worth it (by
then you've survived the crib death portion of the bathtub failure curve, and
the hardware (that is cycle-for-cycle) has depreciated to the point where I
don't bother with AppleCare any more.

What _is_ worth paying a bit extra for is Lenovo's on-site warranty servicing,
where their techs will come in to your office within a time interval. It's
generally accepted that post-IBM Thinkpads are less "I can take an 18 oz claw
hammer to it" than the T40 era tanks[1] but I'm hard enough on my hardware
where I managed to bend the corner within 3 months of owning my first-gen MBA
13" by hucking into a TSA container in a morning grog to catch a red eye. (I
also have the uncanny ability to kill headphones and fray power cords with
ease.)

Hackaday's linkbaity[2] article is somewhat helpful (though a bit late since
you seem to have made your purchase already).

As someone already mentioned, with Bash-as-a-first-class-citizen in Windows
10, as well as the general stability of the OS (I've got > 3 months of uptime
on my well-abused Inspiron i7 that's coming up on 4 years old and it's as
responsive/reliable as Windows 7 was), I have no particular desire to return
to running OS X as my daily driver.

[1] www.retropcmania.com/2009/11/ibm-thinkpad-t60-review-thinkpad-t60-vs.html
The rigor with which some of the TP aficionados have analyzed their hardware
amazes me. [2] hackaday.com/2016/10/28/apple-sucks-now-heres-a-thinkpad-
buyers-guide/

------
edblarney
Super interesting is that Mac has become an important development computer in
the last 10 years - this was not the case before. But I think the dev
community is pretty small in terms of users.

That said - wouldn't photoshop/creative types want more than 16G as well?

~~~
fatbird
One of our designers at work got an iMac with 32G, and immediately maxed it
out, bragging "I'll never have enough RAM!" So, yeah.

I think one of the good points made last week is that at this point, you're
into workflow management when you hit limits like RAM because, yes, you could
run two more VMs on your laptop if you had 32GB instead of 16GB, but you're
already running 4, and then you'd run 6 and complain you couldn't run 10. Your
base laptop will always have some limit that you'll need to deal with.

The question remaining unanswered for me is how much developers, like creative
professionals before them, are influencers that drive secondary sales. I
remember people crying doom for Apple when they gave up being the primary
education computer with sweet deals for schools and students, because KEY
DEMOGRAPHIC KEY INFLUENCE POINT KEY... and yet it didn't appear to hurt them
at all. I actually question the whole "influencer" theory of marketing because
of it.

~~~
vegabook
It's much more about simulating a server in a VM, than running 4 VMs. And
servers need lots and lots of RAM as the kind of database stuff usually run in
them (even for prototyping) is usually memory bound not processor bound.

~~~
dogma1138
Doesn't have to be development related try editing 4K video with 16GB of ram.

~~~
npunt
Agreed but that's not necessarily bad on 16GB. After all, you can edit 4k on
an ipad pro with 2-4GB ram. Disk IO matters a lot though - newest MBPs do
3.1GB/s so having a bit less RAM is nothing like it used to be before fast
SSDs.

~~~
dogma1138
No you can't edit a video on an iPad pro at 4K, adding a few clips together
isn't editing.

Open Adobe Premiere and After Effects load up a few 4K sources and start
editing and talk to me about 2-4GB ram for 4K....

~~~
npunt
Splicing clips and adding transitions definitely is editing. What you're
talking about is differences in workload, which of course have different IO
and CPU requirements. The further you get into those complex workloads, the
fewer users there are, and the more likely they're going to be sitting at a
fixed station with a large monitor where an iMac / MacPro may be a better
choice for said workload.

Even if MBPs had 32GB, you still will hit CPU & thermal limits which matter a
great deal in rendering, and which are far less than an iMac. I imagine you're
looking at a pretty limited set of use cases where 32GB freed up a speed
bottleneck that the CPU didn't then quickly hit. Even more so factoring in
these use cases needing to be mobile.

Also, Premiere / After Effects can most definitely take advantage of the
improved disk IO, now that its available. As usual, developers will have to
adjust to the platforms they're on. Having graphics performance doubled and
disk IO up 66% is not a terrible state of affairs for rendering.

I'm not saying 32GB isn't important but there's a pretty understandable logic
as to what fundamental constraints they're dealing with and how those compare
to the market.

------
nunez
Honestly, now that Windows has Docker and Ubuntu, I realized that I could
combine the iPad Pro with my MacBook by buying a Surface Pro. So that's what
I'm doing. I'm selling my MacBook and getting a Surface.

------
shermablanca
I'll be building a Hackintosh with 64 gb or ram and the latest processors and
ssd. There is a strong community for that now and it's apparently more robust
than it used to be. Here's a good article by one developer on his experience:
[https://medium.com/swlh/building-
my-1-200-hackintosh-49a1a18...](https://medium.com/swlh/building-
my-1-200-hackintosh-49a1a186241e#.r0t16ep1z)

~~~
whywhywhywhy
> My audio doesn’t work

From the article.

Not sure why people still pass this around as if it's positive.

~~~
jacquesc
To be clear, his audio jack doesn't work. He gets audio via USB. So no less
broken than an iPhone 7.

~~~
TulliusCicero
I approve of this burn.

------
hashtagMERKY
Someone who knows more about this than me: given the significant negative
reaction to the new MacBooks and the state of the mac lineup in general, is
Apple likely to release a more suitable lineup in 2017 in response, or will
they largely ignore the reaction?

~~~
revelation
If the question is "will something better become available in the future" then
the answer is always "yes".

~~~
kgwgk
Unless they discontinue the product completely, of course. The answer is "no"
in that case.

------
tbarbugli
I wonder what's the energy cost introduced by having 16 extra GB of RAM. Is
that a space issue (more RAM = less space for batteries) or a power
consumption?

~~~
kiddico
If I remember correctly it's not the ram that they're going for, but the
processor the ram attaches to. The skylake low power mobile cpus all use the
low power ram(as one would expect), and for some reason is limited to 16gb on
mobile.

So if apple wanted the low power cpu, they had to limit everyone to 16GB.

~~~
wila
All of the Skylake i7 mobile CPUs can handle at minimum 32GB and at most 64GB
[0]

[0]
[http://ark.intel.com/products/codename/37572/Skylake#@Mobile](http://ark.intel.com/products/codename/37572/Skylake#@Mobile)

~~~
wtallis
As per the processor data sheet [0] 32GB is only possible with DDR4, not
LPDDR3.

[0] [https://www-
ssl.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/...](https://www-
ssl.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/6th-gen-core-family-mobile-u-
y-processor-lines-datasheet-vol-1.html)

------
marze
I'm confused by the negative reaction. To me, these new laptops seem like the
ultimate pro dream machines.

I can understand the frustration with with lack of other Mac updates somewhat,
but really, Intel has not been giving much reason to update the cpu for a
while now, so it is somewhat justified. Ram speed, and ssd speed, are more
important by far now.

What puzzles me more is the lack of Mac mini action. Isn't this an excellent
route for Apple to introduce new customers to the Mac? Why don't they make it
compelling, and a tiny bit a loss leader? I know Mac revenue is a minor
fraction of apple's revenue now, but on the same token, a reduction in asp for
macs would be minor overall as well.

My guess: they don't want the cost and hassle of providing apple-grade support
to new Mac users.

~~~
walshemj
not sure I describe the new MacBook or any laptop really as a "pro" machine -
Pro to my mind means the sort of use case where you using a workstation class
machine with a Hot i7 or Dual Zenon and possibly some of the high end video
cards for CUDA etc.

~~~
HalfwayToDice
Pro also means having an ESC key I think.

~~~
dguaraglia
Where I come from, it does!

------
jsz0
> A larger danger for Apple, I think, is affordability.

This was is interesting because Apple had previously been reducing the costs
and expanding the options available for entry level Macs. This makes me think
they will be doing a major revamp of the non-Pro line next year that may
include moving them to ARM. Moving the higher volume consumer products to ARM
first makes sense for a lot of reasons. I think it's even plausible we could
see some type of macOS/ARM compatibility come to the iPad next year. In all
the hysteria about the Mac recently everyone has kind of forgotten that the
iPad is Apple's biggest problem child right now.

------
jaequery
I attached an external ssd on my old 2011 Mac mini and it performs just as
faster than my 2015 MacBook Pro. This makes me realize that OS X still runs
very fast even on older models and makes me wonder if this is the reason why
apple isn't really keen on providing macs with faster cpus or even more ram.
So to those of you who asks for more ram or CPU, unless you run very memory /
CPU intensive apps, it's most likely you don't require them.

~~~
CSDude
I ageee, also CPUs do not really get much faster over years and I/O is more
likely to matter to most applications. Only reason to upgrade just for
processor would be for longer battery times, but it is already long enough for
2015mbp.

~~~
jcoffland
> CPUs do not really get much faster over years

This is a relatively new development. 15 years ago CPU speeds were increasing
like mad.

------
adolfoabegg
"For those on the margins, the question will be if staying on Apple products
is worth the pain, or if it isn’t."

For me it isn't. I started looking at Clevo laptops already.

~~~
drakenot
They have terrible battery life. My first laptop I purchased in college was a
top of the line Alienware. Never again will I do that. If you value
portability and battery life at all I would reconsider. If you want power and
discrete graphics get a desktop.

~~~
dom0
What's your point? "If you want power and discrete graphics get a desktop." is
true about any notebook. Every notebook - except maybe those built from
_actual desktop hardware_ (which is mainly a configuration difference anyway)
- will be far less powerful and more noisy than a desktop at the same price
point.

Depending on the brand you'll always pay a 2-6 times premium for laptop
hardware.

Re. battery life; it obviously depends a lot on the model. Some are quite
okay, the gaming ones aren't.

~~~
drakenot
My point is that I've personally experienced the pain of purchasing a "high-
performance laptop."

It was incredibly heavy to where you unconsciously start deciding to leave it
home because of the discomfort of lugging it around.

The battery life was so poor you have constant anxiety about when it will run
out or if you will make it through your two classes.

The performance also ultimately wasn't that great and had terrible thermals.

I was left with a laptop that never left my desk. I would have been better off
purchasing a cheap chromebook and a mid-range desktop for the same money. The
"performance laptop" is compromise incarnate.

~~~
Nullabillity
> or if you will make it through your two classes.

Or... you could just bring a charger, and not have to worry?

------
muninn_
I've noticed a lot of people complaining about USB-c and having to buy
adapters or whatever.

USB-c is a transitory period as we move to a state of being where "crap does
anybody have HDMI to DVI" or whatever is non-existent. We're moving away from
physical cables and having to buy different connectors or adapters between
products.

It's a pain right now, because manufacturers haven't caught up (and might have
an interest in never "catching up"), but the move Apple is making in
standardizing ports and removing things like the headphone jack (while giving
you an extension cord for backwards compatibility) are all moves in the right
direction.

~~~
dingaling
> "crap does anybody have HDMI to DVI"

Unfortunately to be replaced with 'crap, does anyone have a USB-C cable that
can handle 90W?' or 'is this USB-C cable good enough to handle Thunderbolt?
Why isn't my Thunderbolt device connecting' or 'is this USB-C port 3.0 or
3.1?'

Unless we standardise on over-engineered USB-C cables that can handle all
possible use-cases ( and thus able to handle 100W even just to connect a mouse
) or introduce some sort of labelling system ( which doesn't move us on from
the current cable-zoo ), then there's going to continue to be hair-pulling at
the start of Powerpoint presentations in unfamiliar rooms.

~~~
muninn_
Again, you're just remarking on a temporary transition state. Even if the
scenario you described happened, it would still be a far superior alternative
to what we have now.

~~~
dingaling
None of the examples I gave will be transitory.

A 10W-rated USB-C cable meets spec and power a hub but won't be able to charge
a laptop.

A USB-C cable will work for Thunderbolt 3 so long as it is less than metre
long and has 'satisfactory' loss. Again it meets spec.

You can connect an on-spec USB-C cable between a laptop and monitor and
discover that the monitor doesn't support HDMI in Alternative Mode. Well,
actually, you won't discover anything as it just won't work.

Even if all the cables you buy are 100W platinum-plated ypu can still walk
into a meeting room to find an on-spec cable that doesn't work for your use-
case.

------
jrobn
My guess would be new intel cpus will be a paid upgrade for another $500
sometime next year. Apple will then abandon macs because they aren't moving
ridiculously priced hardware. More likely is that apple is phasing out its pro
line in favor of premium consumer macs. Xserve is dead. Mac Pro is on its
death bed. MacBook Pro is next. Not to mention they have been slowly killing
off their pro software as well. I was actually surprised final cut got an
update.

~~~
gutnor
One remaining pro software they need to kill before that is possible: XCode !
A cloud version, optimised for iPad Pro unveiled at an event with a bigger
iPad Pro and a few big companies all around singing praise and showing off
uber cool plugins, and the Mac is gone

------
fiatpandas
Apple's rumored transition to in-house ARM-based CPUs for their Macbooks
couldn't come faster. For such a critical component, relying on a single third
party to continue innovating on a timeline which aligns with where you want
your products to be is not ideal.

~~~
jeffjose
That'll mean a whole new set of softwares. The current software (think
photoshop) won't work on ARM processor

~~~
fzzzy
Apple's done two architecture changes already. Both 68k backwards
compatibility on PowerPC and Rosetta PPC backwards compatibility on Intel
worked well.

~~~
DonHopkins
Don't forget the architecture change from the 6502 to the 68000!

~~~
petecox
They never provided CPU emulation for that.

Their solution for Mac LC was effectively an Apple IIe shrunk down to a PDS
expansion card.

~~~
DonHopkins
There were some good third party Apple ][ emulators for the Mac!

