
Developer quits GitHub due to harassment - sibartlett
https://twitter.com/nrrrdcore/status/444647167118958592
======
theorique
What's actually going on?

Lots of people seem to be taking the opportunity to jump on Github for "toxic
culture" and so forth, but until we know what actually happened, they seem to
be jumping to conclusions.

Some people might call this victim blaming, but until we find out who the
actual victim(s) is/are in the situation, how can we know who is to blame?

A company could be the victim of a disgruntled ex-employee who wants to drag
the company's name through the mud. And a company could have treated an ex-
employee bad enough that she quit. The uninvolved public simply don't know
enough facts to take a side one way or the other.

~~~
ethnt
To be honest, we may never get the full truth here. Both sides have their
reputation to uphold.

~~~
theorique
There's a lot of vague-tweeting and theatrical "showing support" for both
sides. Which is fine, and expected, when beefs like this go down, I suppose.

Not knowing any of the parties involved, I just can't pretend to know more
about this than what is publicly visible, which is essentially nothing.

~~~
nailer
I haven't seen anyone 'showing support' for github. Just 'being disappointed'
in them.

------
danso
A couple of Tweets to note:

1\. The OP has not yet explained what happened but says a blog post is on its
way:
[https://twitter.com/nrrrdcore/status/444649347037155329](https://twitter.com/nrrrdcore/status/444649347037155329)

> _I 'm done keeping quiet and will be writing about my experiences soon._

2\. Part of the problem stems from this Secret post that apparently refers to
her:
[https://twitter.com/nrrrdcore/status/444646082857820160](https://twitter.com/nrrrdcore/status/444646082857820160)

My own opinion: unrelated to the issue at hand, but I'm sad at how technology
in the world's brightest innovation sector is being used as I imagine it would
be among high schoolers who had the power to invent and acquire millions in
funding.

~~~
Chikkient
My own opinion: She is a terrible person to work with, in response to this [1]
outing of her behind the scenes behavior decided to deflect everything back at
GitHub with public tantrum filled with false allegations.

[https://twitter.com/nrrrdcore/status/444646082857820160](https://twitter.com/nrrrdcore/status/444646082857820160)

~~~
notahat
What information is your opinion based on?

~~~
obeid
It wouldn't matter, nothing credible will come from an anonymous account that
was created an hour ago.

------
vladgur
harassment is a pretty strong word in my opinion, so I hope she proceeds with
blogging as to what constituted that harassment and why she endured it for so
long.

On other hand if she was so bad as the Secret screenshot claims, why wasnt she
fired. Of course this whole incident could be a result of a slow firing
process where the employer has to collect enough documentation in order to
protect itself from any discrimination lawsuit.

Of course truth be told we simply may never find out what really happened
since each party will try to protect its image.

~~~
Giraffenstein
>each party will try to protect its image.

Horvath isn't so much protecting her image as she is heaping dirt upon it.
She's allegedly harassed in the workplace, and the first place she goes to is
Twitter? Nowhere in the flowchart of "how to deal with workplace issues" will
you find a square that says "whine on Twitter." "Blog about it" is also
conspicuously absent.

~~~
dalke
Flowcharts are only guides, not requirements. The law is very clear.
Complaints about harassment are not constrained to only a specific set of
actions. Quoting from
[http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/retal.html](http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/retal.html)
:

    
    
           A complaint or protest about alleged employment discrimination
           to a manager, union official, co-worker, company EEO official,
           attorney, newspaper reporter, Congressperson, or anyone else
           constitutes opposition.   ...
    
           A complaint about an employment practice constitutes protected
           opposition only if the individual explicitly or implicitly
           communicates a belief that the practice constitutes unlawful
           employment discrimination\13.  Because individuals often may not
           know the specific requirements of the anti-discrimination laws
           enforced by the EEOC, they may make broad or ambiguous
           complaints of unfair treatment. Such a protest is protected
           opposition if the complaint would reasonably have been
           interpreted as opposition to employment discrimination.
    

"Whine on Twitter" and "Blog about it" are examples of "a complaint or protest
.. [to] anyone else", and so constitutes opposition. If "harassment" here was
meant to imply discriminatory treatment on the basis of sex - which seems to
be the general consensus of this thread - then it would easily fall under
"broad or ambiguous complaints of unfair treatment."

You can make up whatever ideas you want on what someone should or shouldn't
do, but if you read the actual court cases you'll find that your views would
protect workplaces with illegal discriminatory practices, including workplaces
which actively support sexual harassment.

------
danabenson
Here is one of her blog posts expressing frustration, although still vague:
[http://julieannhorvath.com/2013/03/22/there-is-no-emoji-
for-...](http://julieannhorvath.com/2013/03/22/there-is-no-emoji-for-
martyrdom.html)

~~~
zaqokm
going by that post it seems that for some reason she thinks it is appropriate
to use the word "Fuck" on stage and inappropriate for people to complain about
it.

That seems a little backwards to me.

~~~
FireBeyond
This is a company whose presentations have used the word “fuck” on more than
one occasion, who just today have released a blog entry that discusses their
chatrooms and how often the word “fuck” was said, including how often by their
Hubot, (“our robot has something of a potty mouth”), so if that was the claim,
I think she’d feel justified in expressing a little surprise.

~~~
zaqokm
> This is a company whose presentations have used the word “fuck” on more than
> one occasion

Hey I understand your position, but she is criticising the "bullies" (whom I
gather are audience members) in that statement, not the company.

The irony of this is she goes on to mention Adria Richards who became infamous
for tweeting the private conversation of two people whose language was also
inappropriate, and suggesting it was a difficult time for Richards.

So I am confused by the messaging in the post, it is ok to say "Fuck" but
wrong to criticise someone for saying it, but it is ok to criticise someone
for innuendo for forking a repo.

~~~
dalke
Umm, conversations in a public meeting which are easily overheard by others
are not private conversation.

To have a reasonable expectation of privacy in an otherwise public area, one
must make some sort of effort to establish that privacy. For example, by
speaking so softly that no one else can listen in without technological means,
or move to a room with solid doors and walls so that the eavesdropper must
place one's ear against the door to hear the conversation.

This applies everywhere. Homes are considered private areas, and having sex is
(usually) considered a private act. But if I hear my neighbors talking dirty
while having sex, then if I want I can complain to them or tell others about
the problem, even if they mean for it to be a private act in a private area.

You see this breakdown of public/private conversations all the time. Someone
talking on a cell phone while on a bus may consider the conversation private,
but if 1/2 the bus can hear the speaker, it's certainly not private even if
the custom is to ignore the speaker.

------
vladgur
btw, she seems like a very driven and talented lady: she made a move from a
marketing intern in 2010 to a marketing manager to a designer and finally(not
represented in her LinkedIn profile) to a developer at Github.

I have no doubt of her abilities since Im assuming Github is pretty good at
their interviews. Its too bad something got broken professionally or
personally that resulted in this outcry

------
sibartlett
See the rest of her related tweets:
[https://twitter.com/nrrrdcore](https://twitter.com/nrrrdcore)

------
microjesus
There are no facts available. This is sensationalist piece, move along.

