
A 69-year-old man asks to be declared 49, claiming age is as fluid as gender - bookofjoe
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/11/08/year-old-man-asks-be-declared-claiming-age-is-fluid-gender/
======
cimmanom
It sounds like he didn’t mean it seriously, but I’m willing to discuss the
concept seriously.

Some of us think gender shouldn’t necessarily be tied to the body one was born
in or currently inhabits (that is, gender != sex).

Is there a concept of age that is separate from the number of years the body
has physically been in existence?

Don’t we sometimes say of an adult “he has the emotional development of a 5
year old”?

What would happen if, as with gender, we bifurcated the terms for physical vs
mental age?

~~~
threatofrain
The dutch man talks about age discrimination on Tinder; I imagine that only in
recent times has record keeping gotten so omnipresent, and that people have
always had more margin to play with their age +/\- a few years.

And yet we cannot lie about it much for long. As if there's a hidden clock
somewhere, related to rotating around the sun but barely not. Perhaps those in
the future will develop a biological clock, but then we go back to the old
question of whether this dutch man is wanted less because of age. Is age just
the number on his government ID card?

Why can one fudge age, but only a little?

~~~
gus_massa
In Argentina everyone has a national ID, that in particular is used to vote.
Until ~1950 only the men had it, and they got it during the conscription.

In ~1950 the government gave all the women also an ID to vote, and the age was
self reported because the official records were a mess (most of the records
were only the baptism date keep by the church).

Many of the old women subtracted 5 or 10 years from their real age :).

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rectang
Whether deliberately or not, this claim belittles the civil rights struggle of
the transgender. All humans age, but only a minority have a gender identity
that does not match their assigned sex.

I only hope that the discussion of this silly claim results in more people
gaining greater understanding of transgender issues.

------
prepend
I think in this situation age is like sex and the concept the subject calls
age is really like mindset or mental age, which would be more like gender.

Although many states will amend drivers licenses so that sex is recorded as
the subject’s gender [0].

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_rights_in_the_Unit...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_rights_in_the_United_States)

------
aequitas
This guy is well known in the Netherlands. He became popular as positive
energy guru with his catchphrase Tjsakka, somewhere at the end of the previous
millennium. And is known as a entertainer and media attention seeker by almost
all Dutchmen. Nobody here would be surprised by this and think it is one of
his new jokes.

------
coldtea
Well, death is not that fluid though...

~~~
Svexav
I don’t think he is dead. A dead man would probably not care about his age.

~~~
mlthoughts2018
He was dead previously but now he is transdead after petitioning to have his
death certificate changed.

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gremlinsinc
Sure, why not... But you also have to come out of retirement and give up any
SSI because you're no longer old enough to collect, and your senior discount
-- kiss that goodbye...

------
RickJWagner
Next up: teenagers trying to change their age to past the legal drinking age /
age of consent.

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Simulacra
It is interesting that some things are fluid, like gender, something science
has proven beyond a doubt, but age and race are not. I would love to just call
myself 27 for the rest of my life.

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dschuetz
He's obviously trolling, but he does have a point. If gender is fluid why is
it so important for trans people to _look_ like women, or men? Is it a
necessity? Then why adopt distinct _male_ or _female_ features, genitalia
which do not work as intended? So, is it just cosmetic? Then why are they
modifying their bodies? Just to feel well and free? Same goes for this guy.
He's feeling like he's much younger than he actually is. It's both a necessity
and a cosmetic change in his birth certificate. Hell, let's kick off some
studies to verify whether more people feel younger than they are. Sadly, I
don't know any trans person to ask them how they feel and why they feel that
way, in person.

~~~
eesmith
Please don't feel that the best way to figure out what a trans person feels
like is to find one and ask them. Why do you think they want to educate a
stranger?

Instead, read one of the many, many articles on this topic. Written by trans
people or trans-friendly people who specifically _do_ want to educate
strangers.

Here's a "Q&A as a trans advocate’s nuanced perspective on Trans 101
questions." \- [http://www.transadvocate.com/a-trans-advocates-
perspective-o...](http://www.transadvocate.com/a-trans-advocates-perspective-
on-trans-101-questions_n_14906.htm)

Here's a recent blog post on trans advocacy which gives "definitions that are
in common use among people that seriously study gender" \-
[https://freethoughtblogs.com/pervertjustice/2018/10/13/andy-...](https://freethoughtblogs.com/pervertjustice/2018/10/13/andy-
lewis-gendered-gotcha/)

There are blogs, podcasts, YouTube channels, and more.

~~~
dschuetz
Talking is the best way, believe me. Writing things up is easy. But talking is
sooo much more revealing and effective, that I started to prefer talking over
reading hours and hours of the same explanation. Being a trans person is much
more of an individual thing, so to avoid generalization I'd like to ask a
trans person, in person, what they feel like. I don't want to be _educated_ ,
I'd like to _know_ and to _understand_.

~~~
eesmith
The trans people of the world are not your personal tutors!

If you don't even care enough to read the basics, why should they think that
you care enough to really understand them?

And there are writings from untold thousands of trans people, with different
views, so it's not like reading will only give you generalizations. You'll get
thousands of specifics.

------
mcphage
> “He is just himself,” he said. “Trump is the first one who is honest. He
> shows his emotion on Twitter, saying to everyone, ‘Shut up.’ He’s a new kind
> of person.”

Someone who tells everyone else to shut up is nowhere near a new kind of
person.

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cprayingmantis
Flagging for off topic and not relevant. I don’t come to HN to see stuff like
this.

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Overtonwindow
The transgender issue has essentially broken science by grossly politicizing
it. I think people should be allowed to live and choose whatever labels they
want, even though my personal opinion is that there are only two genders. I
think if the law is going to allow someone to change their gender, then age
and race should be also on the table. If gender, which is supported by hard
science, is flexible then what isn’t? We have to make a decision between
personal freedom and science.

