

Are you sick of being downvoted for having a different opinion? - gaika

I'm. That's one of the primary reasons why I'm still working on my startup (personalized social news site) even though the odds are stacked againts it.<p>Please help us create a community where people can exchange stories and opinions freely while still maintaining the quality of personalized "front page".
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ibsulon
I've managed to keep from being incessantly downvoted in my unpopular opinions
by providing well documented arguments (logos, with an occasional appeal to
ethos of sources), tying to personal credibility or experience (ethos), or
providing personal experience developing an empathic response, then tying into
into the main argument. (pathos -> logos, or just pathos.)

The problem isn't disagreement - it's not developing ethos, pathos, or logos
into the appropriate argument. The more controversial the opinion, the more
that one must work to develop these three qualities, rather than depending on
just one.

I also work to expose the weaknesses of my own argument, admit them, but
explain why they are superior to the more conventional alternative.

I find that when this fails for myself, it's often because my perspective is
lacking, and I need to rethink my argument.

On reddit, I'll still usually find an unpopular opinion at 3 or 4 points.
There's likely some downmodding done, but most people will leave it alone if
it's a proper argument.

(Some arguments, of course, are out of bounds. The emotional appeal is too
strong. Abortion in a pro-life forum, for example. I haven't had that problem
in most major forums.)

~~~
gaika
This is a great strategy for comments.

How does it help when you want to post a story on reddit that you think is
important but unfortunately is highly controversial? (Hacker News doesn't have
downvote for stories for exactly this reason, thanks!)

How does it help when people are downvoting you not only for your opinion but
for who you are?

Karma is a great tool to manage trolls and signal / noise. Unfortunately in
real world it is also used to silence opponents. And it is pretty effective at
that. I want to change that.

~~~
ibsulon
I don't tend to post stories. :) If I were looking for posts, I would likely
post it in a personal blog then write my own interpretation, using effective
argumentation, re-presenting the arguments targeted to a more critical
audience.

That is a lot of commitment, though. However, an argument can do more harm
than good if it is not written for a general audience.

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breily
I'm sick of submissions about downvotes.

~~~
gaika
Great, there are no submissions about downvotes there, because unlike here it
is not a problem.

Edit: whoever is downvoting this comment should check the definition of
"irony"

~~~
xlnt
Maybe you were downvoted for being hard to understand? "there"?

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gaika
English is not my first language.

I meant that on the social news site that I'm working on there are no posts
about downvotes, because everybody is free to express their opinion with up
and down votes as they wish and it doesn't hurt anybody.

~~~
xlnt
Oh. Maybe you are being downvoted for advertising your startup too much?

~~~
gaika
Maybe. I'm trying to advertise a solution to the problem. My startup is just
one possible implementation of it.

Edit: Another solution would be to ask people to explain when they downvote.
Please, what's wrong with THIS comment?

~~~
xlnt
You should probably ignore downvotes until at least -2. It could be just one
random idiot and it doesn't mean anything.

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rory096
His first comment is now -19 and his other two were -3 before I came in here.
Why all the pile-on downvoting for no real reason, people? Are those comments
really worth -19?

~~~
gaika
It is called karma bombing and it just proves the point.

Compare it to the solution where there's a recommendation system that helps
everybody involved: the ones downvoting the posts will form one cluster, the
ones upvoting them will be in another. People that like stories like that will
see more, people that do not will be spared from them.

~~~
greendestiny
It's a community response to your suggestion that we should leave Hacker News
and go to Jaanix because of the evils of downvoting. Downvoting is
communication, it's really not a fault of the system if you find it too
painful to hear.

~~~
gaika
My communication skills must be terrible, but I'm not asking anybody to leave.
Hacker News is great, but it covers only small subset of all the news out
there.

~~~
greendestiny
Pointing out what you (and others) see as a problem with this news site, and
suggest it as a reason to go to your news site, only makes sense if you don't
see them as independent.

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mpk
I really don't care about being down or up voted.

I make a comment every now and again - if people want to vote on it, fair
enough. Go ahead, that's what the system is for.

But please don't try to pretend this is anything other than an Internet forum.
Semi-anonymous people hang out here and some of them are bound to be
obnoxious. Down-votes for different opinions are par for the course. Get over
it.

------
rewind
I'm not sick of being downvoted (don't care), but I can't say the same about
posts that are nothing more than advertisements for the poster's startup.

~~~
xlnt
i'm sick of imprecise posts. the above post is not "nothing more" than an
advertisement, even if you're right that that is the primary motivation.

~~~
gaika
Thank you. You are right, that is not the primary motivation for the post. I
liked slashdot back in the day. Had to move on to digg, then reddit, then
hacker news, because the quality of discussions was degrading. I think hacker
news has a chance to be free from trolls and have high signal / noise because
of narrow focus, but these personal anonymous attacks on people with
downvoting them for who they are and what they think started to happen here
more and more often. I think there's a general solution and would be only
happy if sites like Hacker News adopt it as well.

~~~
astine
I've always felt that the best tool for that job was active moderation. If
moderators care about the quality of their 'community' they can maintain it by
fairly enforcing a set of rules. I've seen cases where this worked very well.

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mattmaroon
I just kinda got used to it. I essentially realized that karma has no real
money value anyway, and my self-esteem isn't dependent on the approval of
strangers. So I just kinda comment and whatever happens happens. I really
don't pay much attention to it.

I have thicker skin than most though.

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edw519
_...I'm still working on my startup..._

Great. That's what we all should be doing. Let us know as soon as you have
something to show us. I'm not sure why you're posting this before then.

~~~
gaika
It is working, sorry for misunderstanding, link in the profile.

~~~
edw519
Cool. I didn't see the link in the post, so I never thought of checking your
profile. Edit your original post (if it's not too late) and add that link.
Thanks.

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biznickman
Can you downvote people on this site?

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mwerty
Karma needs to be greater than 25 or thereabouts.

~~~
Morieris
That seems like a good idea... I imagine it would keep out account farmers, or
people using dupe accounts to vote many times.

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lakeeffect
Your Site Has Down Votes, I looked at it, it does.

~~~
gaika
The downvotes on our site serve totally different purpose. They do not censor
- they cluster. They let you find people that share your values. Same with
upvotes, also there's no karma to gain or lose.

~~~
pohart
While I see the point of such a thing, I don't like the idea of only reading
the posts of people sharing my values/ideas. I already have my values/ideas
and reading them will reinforce, instead of expand, them.

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chrisbroadfoot
Dear god, not another personalised social news site.

