

What we look for in students - nicholasjbs
https://www.hackerschool.com/blog/20-what-we-look-for-in-students

======
cuttooth
I'm fine with a program like HS existing if people want to join it, but I'll
have no respect for them until they treat both genders equally in terms of the
tuition assistance.

Note that I'm all for women joining the program, but I'd presume people with
the time to commit to the program are a) not working, and b) don't have much
money, so it's completely unfair to exclude men to receive assistance just
because they happen to be of the majority who are interested the field.

~~~
antics
To be clear, there is no "tuition" and therefore no "tuition assistance". The
living stipends are provided by external companies, like etsy, and they are
provided as an outreach effort.

Now. On a purely practical note, HS is a business, and the core objective is
to deliver excellent batch dynamics. The responsibility is to attendees and
attendees only -- how are they delivering an experience that makes the time
(and, indirectly, money) commitment of the students worth it? The issue of
"fairness" does not enter the conversation because this is not a charity. Or,
more straightforwardly, their responsibility is not to people who did not get
in.

Now, ok, you might argue that you are not convinced that having a roughly-
equal gender ratio is beneficial to the batch as a whole, but I am in the
current batch and I'm telling you it makes a huge difference. If you don't
believe me, let's chat over email or skype.

~~~
xinn
Do you think a lower standard is required of female applicants in the
application process than of male applicants?

~~~
antics
Absolutely not. I have been quite impressed with each and every female
participant. It is incredibly obvious that no one in the batch was a pity
case. But even if you don't believe this anecdotal evidence, consider that the
ratio is worse this time around than any other batch. Since the facilitators
are acutely aware of the batch balance (and other statistics), it clear to me
that this decision was deliberate, and that it reflects a very strong male
applicant pool this time around.

As for my speculation, given the rejection statistics, I'm guessing the HS
facilitators could have chosen to admit many more females before this would
have even been an issue that should have borne consideration.

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Jayschwa
Hacker School's filtering process seems to work well. I've been in two
batches, and it has continually surprised me how they manage to bring so many
smart people together, yet avoid the outwardly-arrogant assholes that seem
prevalent in a traditional Computer Science or Engineering university setting.

~~~
ericd
Maybe not thinking you're hot shit and being willing to go back to school is a
passive filter for non-arrogant people :-)

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lquist
_One negative signal for us is if you previously programmed and then stopped
(e.g., you studied CS and then become a product manager)._

Interesting. Why is this a negative signal?

~~~
nicholasjbs
It depends on the specifics of the situation, but it can be a sign that the
person doesn't actually like programming. This isn't always the case -- e.g.,
we've had alumni who had stopped programming to raise families -- but it's
frequently true (e.g., for people who study CS and then get an MBA. When they
apply to Hacker School it seems more often than not they're looking to find a
cofounder or learn enough to hack together a prototype and aren't interested
in programming as a craft, which is totally cool but not a fit for Hacker
School).

~~~
deepGem
What about people who have switched from programming into management, rejected
that, and have gotten back to programming :)

~~~
nicholasjbs
That's totally cool :)

(The thing that would make us skeptical is if the person just _said_ they
wanted to get back into programming, but hadn't actually done it.)

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dbancajas
Hi, This will be a tldr. I am a senior PhD student this fall 2013. I have
always wanted to sharpen my C++ OOP skills and overall programming skills. I'd
like to think I have a good grasp of computing systems since my phd is
centered around computer architecture/vlsi. But in most times, when I read
other people's code, mostly simulators with 50K-100K lines, I have a hard time
following through as I think my fundamentals are not really strong. I spend
about half the time learning new language intricacies I didn't know rather
than understanding how the whole thing works. I have made some efforts into
advancing my own understanding of the languages by studying in my own time
(currently on Accelerated CPP by Koehnig) but then a conference paper deadline
suddenly comes up and I have to reallocate my efforts. If not a conference, my
professor will be writing a proposal and needs my help. I feel like there is
always something that takes away my focus in learning. Would I make a good
candidate for hacker school? Sometimes I feel like you guys are looking for
Android/iOS/Ruby/Php programmers, although you have clearly stated that HS is
language-agnostic, I still feel like I'd be the lone wolf in HS trying to
learn advanced C++..

~~~
future_grad
Hey, don't worry so much. You seem like you would be a great applicant. You
obviously want success if you're a senior PhD student and I think you would be
a great fit. Good luck to you! I hope the best.

~~~
dbancajas
Thanks for the advise! I will definitely apply!

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mataug
I have a friend who has been to HackerSchool, and I hear its really awesome, I
have been wanting to attend ever since then, sadly I can't afford to support
myself there.

~~~
dbancajas
Would you know of someone who can write an in-depth review of HS?

~~~
mataug
This post in itself an in-depth review of HS, You can also read
[https://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/submissions&q=Hacker...](https://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/submissions&q=Hacker+school&start=0)

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vu2srk
As an ex-hacker schooler (I was there for two batches), I've been part of
countless debates around the whole financial assistance part.

Assuming men are the majority who are interested in programming, and in turn
are holding majority of the programming jobs, would you agree with me in
hypothesizing that women need a little more security in leaving their jobs,
which may not be in the programming field? (I knew quite a few of them who
came in from different fields and did programming on the side).

Agreed that the situation in which women are now wrt programming jobs is a
chain effect of a whole bunch of other things - with reasons as deep as
cultural. But I think the financial assistance is not meant to differentiate,
it is only meant to give security to those who need it. A generalisation on
that front happened to be in the form of gender. I hope this gives a clearer
picture.

Also, I was an international intake and even though I couldn't get a visa to
take up a job in the States, HS has only been as helpful as they can be in
helping me try.

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xinn
You forgot "You are financially well-off."

And here I was, excited at the prospect of an easy way out of this agonizing
feedback loop.

~~~
bti
Are you female? They have tuition assistance for women. Apparently men don't
need financial assistance...

~~~
mataug
I don't think they mean it that way. They just want more women to participate.

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qnk
I really feel that I meet all the requirements mentioned here, but sadly, I
was rejected for the previous batch.

Looking back, I want to believe that I was rejected because I was living
abroad and they probably felt I wasn't really sure about moving to The U.S.
They also need people who can legally work here as the referrals are their
business model.

Well, I came here anyway on a sabbatical year. Been learning iOS programming,
attending meet-ups and meeting awesome people. Just finished my first app and
it's doing pretty well on the App Store.

I might apply again, trying to convey everything they look for in my
application.

~~~
zachallaun
I'm a facilitator at Hacker School, which makes me responsible for a large
number of admissions decisions.

While we do make money through referrals, our ability to place someone at a
company we work with is not something we consider while doing admissions.
(This may be hard to believe, but trust me.) We have a significant number of
international students, as well as students who we don't believe will get a
job through us for one reason or the other, each batch. We admit based on
whether we think someone will make a good Hacker Schooler.

We also try to respond to anyone who asks for clarification about a decision.
I'd love to hear from you, and I'd be happy to look into your last
application; especially so if you think we made a mistake! Ping me at
zach@hackerschool.com.

~~~
Schwolop
Curious about this - what if someone (say, me) has a job and has no immediate
intention of leaving it, but _also_ wants to get better at programming and is
willing to take a 3 month sabbatical to do so. Recognising that you're
unlikely to capture a referral fee for such a person, would you truly ignore
that in the admissions process?

~~~
Jayschwa
They would. Your scenario is not uncommon. Seasoned vets in a secure position
still raise the quality of the batch and rub off on the newbies.

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wismer
Regrettably, I'm not an autodidact and my ADD can sometimes get in the way
when to learning programming. Knowing this from an applicant, does that
dissuade you from accepting that person?

Much of what I have learned in programming already was simply finding ways to
automate tasks at my current job - the motivation to learn was there, I
suppose, and helped keep the ADD at bay. But, for all I know the stuff I wrote
could just be child's play and no real indicator of talent. Something that led
me to change my mind about applying a few months ago. Have any of your
students felt something similar before they started attending?

~~~
future_grad
This should NOT stop you from applying. Do it.

------
vhf
For me, this is by far the most reassuring submission on HN this week.

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semisight
I really want to do this at some point, but I'm still in college, and the
schedule never lines up with when school starts and ends. Have any college
students attended hacker school/what do you guys think about college students
attending? (I'm a Comp Eng major btw).

~~~
nicholasjbs
College students are completely welcome, and we've had a number attend
(everyone from first year undergrads to fifth year PhDs). We typically have
the most during our summer batch, where it's been ~10% undergrads and ~10%
grad students the past couple of summers.

We've also had a number of students who have taken a semester long leave from
their BS/MS/PhD program.

We try to make our summer batch work for students, but with such variation in
university schedules, it inevitably conflicts with some schools. I'm sorry to
hear yours is one of them :(

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bnchrch
Just curious. Could someone ballpark the minimum cost to support yourself to
go to hacker school? this is something I've been thinking about doing.

~~~
nicholasjbs
It depends a lot on your circumstances (e.g., if you have student loans,
dependents, etc), but if you're just supporting your self and are willing to
live cheaply, you can do it on $5 to 6k (this number is based on an informal
poll of our students I did a few batches ago; it's also what I personally live
off of during a batch).

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hyshai
why is there a requirement of moving to nyc? An outlying suburb, borough or
state isn't good? like living in nj etc.

~~~
nicholasjbs
There's no requirement to move to NYC proper. We should make it clearer that
we mean the metro area. We have several students commuting from NJ this batch.

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cheesylard
Just applied. Crossing my fingers. Thanks for posting this.

~~~
future_grad
I hope the best for you!

