

A $4.99 utility that might just have saved Windows 8 - Flemlord
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/08/modernmix_saves_windows8/

======
jjcm
(Disclaimer: I work at MS. I do work on windows.) I currently have modern mix
running on my windows 8 desktop. By and large, I've found that the vast
majority of the time I'm on a desktop computer, I'm in the desktop mode of
win8. Rarely do I find that the metro apps are useful outside of the
mobile/tablet/laptop space. Despite all this, I thought "cool this product
looks neat" and purchased a license to Modern Mix. Overall I haven't really
found it tremendously useful. Whereas before I'd pin my calendar to the side
of my screen (one of the very few metro apps I used on my desktop), I now just
have it sitting in a window. The mix of win8 window borders with the metro
styled apps just makes them look awkward, and I really don't feel like I've
been given more functionality despite the increased flexibility. The one nice
feature is you can run multiple metro apps in fullscreen - which is great if
you have a large multimonitor setup and if you have a bunch of metro based
apps in your workflow. But by and large it's that last requirement that really
doesn't make this product worth it for me - I simply don't have a large amount
of metro apps I want to use. Are they nice on a tablet? Sure. But if I'm on a
desktop I have apps that accomplish the same thing in a more optimized format.

~~~
gngeal
"(Disclaimer: I work at MS. I do work on windows.)"

A minor nitpick: I thought that you call this "disclosure" in English, not
"disclaimer"? (I'm not a native speaker, which is why I may be easily wrong,
but something is nudging me to ask when I see things that seem wrong to me.)

~~~
Lewisham
Disclosure refers to the act of saying he's from MS. Disclaimer means that you
should read what he says knowing that he might have a bias, because he's from
MS.

As they both result in the same thing (you need to read what he says
understanding he may be biased), you'll see them both used. I usually use
Disclaimer, but there's no real reason for that.

------
bradwestness
The problem is that this utility defeats the battery life savings which is the
main point of the metro "one app at a time" model by breaking the
suspend/restore functionality by enabling you to run many concurrent
applications.

It's very likely that this utility also breaks some of the sandboxing of metro
applications, introducing security vulnerabilities that don't exist in vanilla
Windows 8.

That said, this utility looks cool, and I hope Microsoft encourages, rather
than discourages, stuff like this going forward. Let the power users customize
the environment however they like.

But there are good reasons that they don't enable this out of the box.

~~~
prof_hobart
The vast majority of the time (both at home and at work), I'm not running on
battery power - and when I am, it's rarely for more than an hour or two. And I
doubt that I'm too unusual in that.

Given that, it seems odd to design the entire UI experience around power
management.

------
pmarsh
To me the Start screen is just the start menu full-screen.

I rarely see it except on boot up, then I goto my desktop and everything is
right there as I left it on windows 7.

I could understand my folks being confused by it but the number of techies who
have been grinding their teeth really has me puzzled. Am I alone on this?

~~~
tomku
No, I feel the same way. I've been using Win8 since release day, and I've had
essentially no problems adjusting. My daily workflow is identical, and I
haven't found myself fighting with the Start screen. I don't use the Metro
apps constantly, but I use them often enough to keep 2-3 of them (weather,
calendar, mail) pinned on the main part of my Start screen alongside the other
apps I use frequently, but not often enough to justify a taskbar pin.

In particular, I find it odd that people claim that Win8 is "dumbed down" or
"power-user unfriendly". I've found the opposite to be true. The new Explorer
UI has things like built-in "Powershell Here", and there's keyboard shortcuts
for _everything_. The Win+X menu is something I constantly reach for whenever
I'm on a Win7 box.

Overall, I'm really pretty happy with it. It's not a massive improvement like
some previous Windows releases were, but the comparisons to Vista or WinME are
nonsense. It's a solid OS, and it really disappoints me that so many are eager
to dismiss it for such silly reasons.

------
rjzzleep
i mostly agree, I'm more of a linux guy, but right now i work in a dotnet
shop, so i run several windows vm's to develop in. i really like windows 8(not
enough to be running it as a default windows, but enough to say i like it more
than previous windows version).

needless to say one of the first things i did was install start8, and then
replace it with a free alternative once the trial ran out. sadly, none of the
trials are on par with start8.

battery life savings only because of metro? I'm not sure about that. windows 8
added a whole bunch of acpi modes in conjunction with intel(i think ?). linux
is struggling to catch up with that.

it's starting to seem like the best way to run linux on a modern machine is to
run windows8 locked down and linux as a fullscreen vm

but saying sinofsky was responsible for replacing the start menu and start8
will "save" windows 8 seems a little far fetched. with microsofts hands all
over the government, i don't see microsoft and windows 8 going away anytime
soon. and with a whole bunch of hybrids coming up i can only see it getting
more and more prominent

~~~
T-hawk
Why not just buy Start8? Surely you've already spent more than $4.99 of your
time trying to work around buying it?

~~~
rjzzleep
because the programs i need in windows are visual studio, a vpn client,
linqpad and some other thing. they fit into win+1-4.

everything else I run with launchy, with a whole bunch of small utility apps
that make my short windows stays more pleasant.

I don't need the start menu, I can very well live without it. I just happen to
like experimenting with things

------
Smudge
> that might just have saved Windows 8

...for traditional mouse and keyboard users, that is. This solution would make
touchscreen usability much worse, IMO.

(Disclaimer: I work at MS. I don't work on Windows. My opinions are my own.)

~~~
pbreit
> for traditional mouse and keyboard users

ie, 99.9% of Windows users.

~~~
sramam
But that's only because they didn't have a choice till very recently. The
future will tell if it remains that way.

As one indicator, I frequently catch my 2 yr old getting frustrated when
pointing at my macbook screen (as opposed to the iPad).

~~~
CamperBob2
As soon as Microsoft buys me a 30" touchscreen to replace my primary monitor
and a 27" one to replace my secondary one, I will cheerfully "upgrade" (sic)
to Windows 8.

------
422long
Does the average person find touchscreen on a laptop or desktop to be of any
value?

Last week I walked into the Microsoft store looking to purchase a new laptop.
I couldn't get over the Windows 8 interface and instead went to the Apple
store across the hallway and purchased by first Mac laptop.

~~~
newsreader
I don’t consider myself an average user but I do own an Acer Aspire with a
touch screen and I love it. My wife and my granddaughter are both pretty
average users and they both prefer the touch screen. I will never buy a laptop
without touch screen capabilities until something better comes out.

------
ep103
So basically, it turns windows 8 "apps" into normal programs for desktop
users... and this works better on the desktop. Who'd-a-thunk.

~~~
polychrome
My thoughts exactly. So we've come full circle on user interfaces as well?

------
vyrotek
The biggest problem is that Microsoft has introduce TWO new things at the same
time. Imagine if Microsoft had released windows with this new menu but it
didn't have any of the 'Modern' apps or marketplace functionality. All of a
sudden it just seems like a stretched out version of the original start menu.
With only this in mind it doesn't seem that shocking anymore. The icons would
behave exactly as you would expect. It's just bigger and has a lot more
features. A great experience all around.

The REAL problem comes with the 'App Store' / Live Tile baggage added on to
the new menu. The biggest complaint I see on Facebook and hear from others
always involves a the 'modern' app version of Skype, Messenger, Picture
Viewer, etc. People using their desktop just don't want those full screen
apps. It only gets in their way and they are always a terrible experience on
the desktop. Also, as far as I've seen no one cares for Live Tiles on a
desktop. For some reason it makes a lot of sense on a tablet, but non on a
desktop.

The reason so many people want their old menu back is because they know that
menu kept them in 'Desktop' mode and would open the normal Windows
applications. Once you've opened the NEW menu it gets tricky. I see an icon
for Skype, but is this going to launch the Skype I've used for years? NOPE,
surprise you're now in full screen skype app mode. Argh, take me back!

In the end, I love Win8 but I never use the menu.

(Disclaimer: I don't work at Microsoft, but I wish I did!)

------
madoublet
I have read that it was a conscious decision for Windows 8 not to have modes,
e.g. touch versus desktop. But, I think that was a bad decision. After almost
a year of using it (since the developer preview), it still does not feel
natural. I think Metro works well for touch and the desktop works well for
traditional input. But, the mixture still feels forced. I think this app is a
step in the right direction, but it really needs to be baked into the OS.

------
zbowling
I was at Costco and spotted this on all the demo machines for windows:
[http://distilleryimage6.s3.amazonaws.com/b97e94147e0311e29a8...](http://distilleryimage6.s3.amazonaws.com/b97e94147e0311e29a8f22000a9f195b_7.jpg)

Someone had installed "classic start menu" on all the machines. These machines
are offline, so I'm assuming it was an employee tired of explaining the
Windows 8 Metro UI. It says something about the UI switch in Windows 8.

~~~
mey
Isn't that misleading information/advertising unless the boxes actually come
with those modifications?

~~~
gehar
and the TVs show cable and DVD content that don't come with the TV.

and the cereal boxes show pieces of fruit in the bowl.

it's a serving suggestion.

------
webwanderings
If I recall correctly, Stardock has been around for ages at least since
Windows 98. I never liked their desktop enhancement utility.

------
leeoniya
the only reason i am able to use windows 8 is:

Classic Shell <http://www.classicshell.net/> and

7+ Taskbar Tweaker <http://rammichael.com/7-taskbar-tweaker>

also TeraCopy and FilesearchEX

------
hereonbusiness
Saved? Metro apps are still completely useless on a desktop PC.

