
K2, a Potent Drug, Casts a Shadow Over an East Harlem Block - kareemm
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/03/nyregion/k2-a-potent-drug-casts-a-shadow-over-an-east-harlem-block.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0
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ZenoArrow
I didn't realise this was a problem in NYC too, but I suppose I shouldn't be
surprised.

Here's a recent video from Vice on Spice use in the UK (Spice is just the
brand name, it sounds like it's basically the same as K2, though the chemicals
involved evolve over time so perhaps it's better to say they're in the same
group of drugs):

[http://youtu.be/t6pmc7Tpx4w](http://youtu.be/t6pmc7Tpx4w)

Before I watched this I'd heard synthetic drugs were dangerous, what surprised
me was how addictive they appeared to be (people in the video compared its
addictiveness to heroin).

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tracker1
This only proves to serve as a point that you can't fight economics or force
people to stay sober and clean. The situation would likely be better if they
just legalized marijuana proper which would likely be a preference to most,
much in the way that people prefer alcohol meant to be consumed instead of
what you buy for cleaning wounds.

~~~
robk
I don't follow this logic. K2 seems to be cheaper and a better high so why
wouldn't you take it vs regular cannabis? Legalization wouldn't really change
a thing.

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kristofferR
The only people I've heard that claims K2/other synthetic cannabis provides "a
better high" are self-destructive stereotypical drug abusers (like in this
article) who want to escape from life.

Regular people often have horrible experiences with it, ranging from just
really uncomfortable experiences to full psychotic episodes. It's not benign
and relatively harmless like cannabis usually is.

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jMyles
This reads like something from the 30's; just replace 'K2' and 'Acid' with
'Reefers' and 'laudanum' or something.

This too shall pass.

~~~
vfdfv
No, K2 is much more harmful than LSD and marijuana. And it never would have
caught on if marijuana were legal.

~~~
robk
Why wouldn't it? Weed is all but legal here in the UK but Spice remains
popular for the intense and different highs.

~~~
DanBC
Cannabis has been reclassified from class C to class B.

Other drugs in class B are: Amphetamines, barbiturates, cannabis, codeine,
ketamine, methylphenidate (Ritalin), synthetic cannabinoids, synthetic
cathinones (eg mephedrone, methoxetamine)

Theoretical sentence for possession is Up to 5 years in prison, an unlimited
fine or both

And theoretical sentence for distribution is Up to 14 years in prison, an
unlimited fine or both

This specialist solicitor has some case reports of mostly large quantity:
[http://www.mjreedsolicitors.co.uk/news/cannabis-
cases/cannab...](http://www.mjreedsolicitors.co.uk/news/cannabis-
cases/cannabis-was-grown-in-order-to-make-cannabis-oil-to-treat-a-skin-
condition/)

So we're nothing like the US (where simple possession could get you a life
sentence) but it's wrong to say that possession of small amounts of cannabis
is ignored in England.

EDIT: spice is popular because it wasn't being tested for in prisons, while
cannabis was; and because it was legal.

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drjesusphd
> So we're nothing like the US (where simple possession could get you a life
> sentence)

To be fair, the life sentences are due to the idiodic "Three Strikes" laws (I
really wonder why those aren't considered double-jeopardy). I don't think you
can go to prison for life for simple possession in any state otherwise.

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rwmj
I was in Seattle a couple of weeks ago, and it has a very obvious (to UK eyes)
drug problem[1]. Try walking around at 6am and you'll see plenty of
narcoleptic users glassy eyed or sleeping on the streets. I assumed it was
heroin or prescription opiates, but maybe it was Spice/K2 instead?

[1] And I should say I'm not talking about the legal drugs - alcohol, tobacco,
cannabis - but there's a problem with at least one of those too.

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casion
Narcoleptic users?

Do you mean "narcotic users", or is this some strange word pun?

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rwmj
No I mean people in semi-sleeping states in the street, ie. narcolepsy.

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poelzi
Sounds like a plan to ensure CIA drug monopoly stays in place. Like nearly all
drug related stories in mainstream: full of bullshit and missing
informations... Graham Hancock put it nicely:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b6-0yW7Iaw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b6-0yW7Iaw)

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Kiro
How is the high like? Seems interesting.

~~~
cpncrunch
Not sure why you'd think it "interesting". Why would you want any kind of
drug-induced high? It's basically just screwing around with your
neurotransmitters and giving you a similar experience to what you can achieve
naturally, but with the disadvantage of receptor downregulation. I've tried
weed, and to be honest the stoned "high" wasn't really much fun or very
interesting -- I have much better experiences in real life. (If you haven't,
I'd perhaps suggest that you're doing real-life wrong).

~~~
Nursie
>> Why would you want any kind of drug-induced high?

While I wouldn't want anyone getting into synthetic cannibinoids like in the
article... If you don't understand this at all, if you don't understand why
people enjoy drugs and drink, that makes you the odd one out, not him.

>> I have much better experiences in real life. (If you haven't, I'd perhaps
suggest that you're doing real-life wrong).

You can have both. You don't have to have _either_ great life experiences _or_
enjoy a drug once in a while. That's a weird attitude. Oh, and if you can
naturally do anything that comes close to either MDMA or LSD, I'll eat my hat.
And my shoes.

~~~
cpncrunch
>if you don't understand why people enjoy drugs and drink, that makes you the
odd one out, not him.

I understand why they enjoy it, I just think the downsides (downregulation)
far outweigh the benefits.

>Oh, and if you can naturally do anything that comes close to either MDMA or
LSD, I'll eat my hat. And my shoes

Lucid dreaming would be the natural equivalent, and with the benefit of zero
health risk (including no downregulation of anything) and control over the
experience.

~~~
Nursie
Lucid dreaming would be nothing like to either of those, amazing as it is.

Downregulation is temporary and personally I want to experience everything. My
time with likes of LSD is over now, but I'm glad I did it.

~~~
cpncrunch
Perhaps you need to do some more research. Downregulation lasts about a year
if you're a chronic user/abuser. Even a single bottle of whisky causes
downregulation for something like a week (that's from memory -- I can't find
the reference right now). This probably applies more to
alcohol/cocaine/opiates rather than LSD.

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benihana
So maybe I'm out of the loop, but this article never really seems to explain
why K2 is so bad and why it specifically is to blame for the issues in the
article. I tried it about 8 years ago, and it was kind of like being stoned on
pot but not nearly as fun. I cant imagine the same thing happening when people
smoke pot, so I'm wondering why K2 is to blame here. But I'm not sure, cause
there's little information in the article.

Maybe I'm cynical but this feels like a drummed up press release for the woman
mentioned in the article's campaign to ban this thing.

It's almost like satire at this point. "Hey, this fake weed that showed up
because real weed is illegal is causing all sorts of problems. I bet if we
make it illegal, all of these problems will go away. And I'll get re-elected."

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Nursie
The hysteria over synthetic drugs in general is unwarranted, reactionary
nonsense.

That said - within the UK 'RC' scene, synthetic cannibinoids tend to be looked
down on or avoided more than other unknown or novel compounds, because they
can be unpleasant and (psychologically?) addictive. They also seem to have
caused various kidney problems and stuff. The general consensus is that it
would be good if weed were legalised so these things just went away.

I say within the RC scene, I mean the online scene. Head shops are doing a
roaring trade in the stuff.

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user_0001
As far as I am aware (and all this is second hand knowledge as I stopped
taking drugs and moved away from it all about 8 years ago, but am still in
contact with a few old friends) the synthetic cannibinoids are all nasty and
far worse they what they are trying to replace - cannabis. Far more cases of
people losing it / psychosis / blacking it / fitting etc than most of the
illegal drugs.

As they are easily available, they tend to be more popular among the young (in
some areas) who perhaps know less people on how to get actual cannabis.

Hey kids, don't smoke this plant, which is actually pretty safe* smoke these
unknown, brand new chemicals some dodgy chemist has knocked up to bypass some
laws.

It is all but directly comparable to prohibition, don't drink these safe
regulated spirits, drink this moonshine made in some guys bathtub where the
profit is paramount and safety be damned.

Yet another case of illegality causing more harm, more problems and costing
more than legalisation ever would.

*but not 100% safe, does cause issues in some etc etc

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user_0001
All we need now is some group to come up with the slogan

"Won't someone think of children and legalise all drugs"

Then some actual sensible progress will be made

