
Outdoor Computing with a Deck Desk - lelf
https://mgsloan.com/posts/deck-desk/
======
mark_l_watson
I share the author’s preference to being outside. I have comfortable chairs
outside on both the eastern and western sides of our house so that I can sit
in the shade and work or read most of the day. I use a flat E&M shield to put
my laptop on, with a small flat pillow under the E&M shield. Low ceremony and
works well for me. Even though I have a great home office, sitting outside, or
at our kitchen table, or at the library adds variety when I am working or
consulting.

I am fortunate to live in Sedona in the mountains of Central Arizona with a
trail head 100 meters from my front door. I spend a lot of time reading and
very often I will do a 20 minute “mini hike” to one of two places where I have
shade, comfortable red rock formations to sit on, and pine trees. This does
add 40 minutes of “wasted time” walking when I want to site down and read for
an hour, but that is OK.

I have always liked to vary my work environment. I had my office in La Jolla
California for about 12 years over looking the ocean and La Jolla Cove. I put
pressure on co-workers to hold business discussions while walking around town
or on the cliffs by the ocean. A small time overhead, but conducive to good
conversations. For every company that I have worked at, I always went (when
weather allowed) for two 20 minute walks a day, which is good thinking time.

~~~
mgsloan1
Cool, sounds like we're very likeminded about this stuff! (I'm the author)

By E&M shield, is that for electromagnetic stuff? Interesting, hadn't
considered that. While I suspect that the effect of EMF is negligible, it also
makes sense to me to limit it where possible - who knows what might be
discovered in the future.

I also live in walkable distance of a trailhead and have hiked to spots to
spots to work. More on this in some upcoming posts, I have some unconventional
approaches to this that have been highly effective so far. The hiking time
isn't wasted at all, I think! Very mentally clearing.

Great idea about the walking time and encouraging walking meetings, will
consider how to encourage that at work.

------
elif
I used an identical zero gravity chair and a lap keyboard. After about 8
months, I developed serious issues with my wrists (pain all the time)

I went back to a traditional setup with an ergonomic split keyboard so my
wrists were completely straight, and my wrists only slowly recovered.

I'm now on 6 months of not using a computer at all and finally feeling close
to 100%

My advice is leave ergonomics up to people who know what they are doing

~~~
dqv
I wonder how much of the wrist pain has to do with diet and exercise. In my
teens and early twenties I had chronic wrist pain. Now in my mid twenties I've
been doing weight training that includes wrist/grip strength exercises (wrist
curls, dead hangs, plate pinches) and making sure I get enough protein. The
wrist pain is gone and hasn't come back for years.

The reason I'm mentioning protein is that apparently joints are the first
place the body looks when we don't get enough protein. I didn't really watch
what I ate when I was younger and realize now that I definitely wasn't eating
enough protein.

I'm not advocating for some extreme weight training regimen, but maybe it's
worth seeing a physical therapist and telling them about the wrist problems
you were having and asking them for exercises to help strengthen your wrists.

~~~
clickhead
I don't think it has much to do with it. I've been working out and am in
pretty good shape and I have chronic wrist pain due to many years of
repetitive manual labor involving my wrist. And recently I've also started to
feel pain in my right hand from using the trackpad so much... will go back to
a mouse soon.

~~~
dqv
Do you do any wrist/grip work? It took me several months just to do small
increases in grip strength. I could only do 5lb wrist curls and 20 seconds
pinching a 10lb plate. Dead hangs didn't come until later and that was also
very slow to progress.

------
melling
Stephen Wolfram “ties/hangs” a laptop from his body so he can work while on
the move.

[https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2019/02/seeking-the-
prod...](https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2019/02/seeking-the-productive-
life-some-details-of-my-personal-infrastructure/)

Personally, I'd like a better mobile solution so I can walk to, or around, a
park, etc and work for an hour.

What’s really missing is a better way to input into a device while not
sitting.

Add a little voice input, eye tracking, and gesture input:

[https://atap.google.com/soli/](https://atap.google.com/soli/)

~~~
seltzered_
Just sharing for inspiration, this is the setups the google glass researchers
have used (2015):
[https://youtu.be/sk7cjmYrKck?t=473](https://youtu.be/sk7cjmYrKck?t=473)

\- mentions the twiddler:
[https://twiddler.tekgear.com/](https://twiddler.tekgear.com/)

\- ..and emacs speak:
[http://emacspeak.sourceforge.net/](http://emacspeak.sourceforge.net/)

\- not mentioned, but there's also been more recent startups like tap:
[https://www.tapwithus.com/](https://www.tapwithus.com/)

~~~
melling
Look at your blog. Looks like you’re working on some sort of input device?

[https://www.vivekgani.com/](https://www.vivekgani.com/)

Did you finish?

~~~
seltzered_
So, I worked on [https://thimblemac.com](https://thimblemac.com) (which was a
plugin, not an input device) between 2013-2017, and had some beta releases.
Didn't quite get the traction I wanted, so put it on hiatus.

Been meaning to find a place to revamp it in some fashion but been busy with
other projects/work since.

------
toyg
I moved my desk outside in the last couple of years when the British weather
obliged. A few notes:

\- temperature. if the temperature is right for you, chances are that it's a
bit too warm for your electronics. Chips get hotter, which can result in all
sorts of problems (particularly with big screens and graphics-intensive apps,
but modern storage as well is often at risk by poor cooling).

\- cables. Even if you are in a mostly-covered space, chances are that your
cables would get wet when raining, so you are constantly taking them in and
out of the house every day.

\- insects. Yes yes, nature is good and we need bees and everything, but...
they are really distracting.

\- environmental noise. Compared to a home office, even a quiet residential
street can sound like hell on earth when you are trying to concentrate.

So uhm, yeah, fun for a couple of days, but not long-term.

~~~
Cpoll
> temperature. if the temperature is right for you, chances are that it's a
> bit too warm for your electronics. Chips get hotter, which can result in all
> sorts of problems (particularly with big screens and graphics-intensive
> apps, but modern storage as well is often at risk by poor cooling).

This is a very AC-centric mindset. I make it a game to hold off on the AC in
the summer. I have experienced graphics card overheating, but only when
gaming.

A sun reflector, an extra 120mm fan, and maybe a better case should combat any
temperature differences.

~~~
misnome
> This is a very AC-centric mindset

This is probably a very US-based mindset. Parent mentioned British weather -
Over here it's almost unheard of to have AC at home, most homes just don't get
warm enough for it to be worth the cost vs shading, regular fans, other
management techniques.

FWIW I've found that my electronics tend to get overly warm also when sitting
outside in nice weather.

------
readingnews
One prerequisite thing the author is leaving out... you have a beautiful deck
with beautiful scenery around. Yes, if I had those views, I would put my
computer outside.

------
fulafel
Some questions if there are outdoor hackers around:

What are some laptops that work well with Linux and have max screen brightness
suitable for outdoor use?

A web site comparison said one Dell XPS 15 model[1] could do 626 nits - what
kind of outdoor conditions would this be suitable for?

It seems advertising displays advertise an order of magnitude more nits[2] so
I assume the laptops would at best be suitable for overcast weather without
shade.

[1] [https://www.laptopmag.com/benchmarks/display-
brightness](https://www.laptopmag.com/benchmarks/display-brightness) [2]
[https://www.dynascandisplay.com/products/ultra-high-
brightne...](https://www.dynascandisplay.com/products/ultra-high-brightness-
lcds/)

~~~
Normal_gaussian
A good way to work it out is to compare phone brightness.

In the UK, I've found 450 nits as fine for outdoor use, provided I'm not
directly reflecting the sun into my eyes.

~~~
z3t4
It also helps with higher contrast and larger text

~~~
Normal_gaussian
Absolutely. Black white is also lot more usable in this case than the 'dev
edition' white on black.

------
andrey_utkin
i use:

\- wrist band to hold a smartphone; \- use VNC client on it to connect to rpi4
in a running vest; \- twiddler keyboard and joystick paired to rpi as input
device.

This hybrid approach with smartphone as a display works better for me than
head-mounted display.

~~~
z3t4
This is an interesting setup. Do you have pictures or video?

~~~
andrey_utkin
Not yet, sorry. Have plans to publish this in coming months.

------
ezconnect
One of my major issues when working outside are mosquitoes and various
insects.

------
Mountain_Skies
Working outside is great and the author has put considerable amount of effort
into making it work for him. Hopefully with computing becoming more
ubiquitous, hardware will become more tolerant to the outdoors. For me, our
screened in porch works best but still there are only a couple of months per
year where doing computer based work outside is viable. The big annoyance here
is in the spring when the temperature and humidity are nearly perfect but the
pollen count is off the charts. I don't have allergies but also don't want my
electronics covered inside and out with a yellowish green blanket of ultra
fine particles. Sealed devices that are easily cleaned off would help here but
the need for ventilation means most devices can't be sealed.

Our four to six weeks of autumn though... that's spectacular, though I'd much
rather hike that time of year than tap away on a keyboard.

------
jSully24
I’m fortunate to have a great screened in porch to work from in summer. (I
live in the northern US so much to cold from late fall to late spring to work
out there).

My favorite thing is when I’m on a call and someone asks if they are hearing
birds! It’s just wonderful being in the fresh air.

------
1e10
gotta admire the hack. I’m still waiting on e-paper screen laptops...

------
mensetmanusman
Outdoors = air quality, lighting

With advancements in high NITs lighting and decreases in outdoor air quality,
it might be easier to recreate the solar spectrum indoors (with a very high
nits monitor) than to work outdoors during wildfire season.

~~~
bigj0n
Outdoors = breeze, birds, scents, wildlife, variety

Our minds arent so easily fooled by a truck lighting setup

------
egypturnash
_looks at her outdoors setup: Mac laptop, Wacom tablet, sunshade made of black
illustration board with magnets to attach to the ones hidden in the Mac’s lid,
a few different bags big enough for all of that and not too much more, and a
variety of cafes and parks nearby_

This setup feels so... maximalist.

Whatever works I suppose but you can go work under a tree or whatever for a
LOT less investment in time and equipment.

~~~
mgsloan1
Hey, author here. Yes the treadmill deck desk is rather maximalist!

I also enjoy very portable setups, particularly for forests / mountains, but I
also sometimes computer in or outside cafes. My portable setup for being out
in nature is really weird looking though, so I'm slowly ramping up the
weirdness levels of my posts about these topics rather than diving right in.
While the location and hardware isn't exactly mundane, the deck desk idea is
fairly close to our daily experience and so approachable. The next increment
away from the mundane is hammock computing -
[https://mgsloan.com/posts/supine-
computing/](https://mgsloan.com/posts/supine-computing/) . I have two more
posts that are work-in-progress that are more in the unconventional and
minimalist direction. So yeah, I think those might appeal to you more!

------
pretendscholar
I wonder how feasible it would be to make a color e ink laptop screen with a
decent refresh rate. That would solve glare problems.

~~~
TACIXAT
Not color, but this is the cheapest eink (thing that can be used as a) monitor
that I've seen. [1] I don't own one, so I can't speak to quality, but I am
interested in getting one to try it. I'd love a non-illuminated screen.

1\. [https://onyxboox.com/boox_max3](https://onyxboox.com/boox_max3)

------
mjrbrennan
This would be nice, however I’d likely be dead before midday. Mid-30 to 40C
every day here in Queensland at the moment.

------
lostmsu
The rain is the one I am concerned about the most. And it is covered very
lightly.

~~~
analog31
A minor issue is that most furniture made of "wood" is a thin veneer on
particle board, which can't survive rain. The water gets between the gaps in
the veneer, and the particle board swells up.

I'd think in many climates, a screen porch would be a viable option.

------
telesilla
To deal with heat when working outside I use a plant spritzer to cool down. As
others say here however, stay out of the sun!

------
JamesLefrere
This might be fun for a while, but in the long term you're asking for an
increased skin cancer risk. Sorry to be a downer.

~~~
fulafel
Unless you quantify this further, it doesn't mean a it's a net negative for
wellbeing, longevity or anything. By getting out of bed you're at increased
risk of falling down, etc.

~~~
JamesLefrere
Wellbeing is one thing (I know I would enjoy this a lot more than an office)
but long term UV exposure is not forgiving for longevity. I could find
sources, but it’s not my area; my partner is a dermatologist and I take her
advice on this. It’s worth wearing sunscreen every day (even in the winter),
though I believe you have to be careful about choosing products in some places
like the US, where sunscreens can be zinc-based.

It’s basically something easy you can do in your morning routine every day
that will lower your risk of developing skin cancer and some other problems.

~~~
paganel
For what it’s worth it also depends on the skin color of the person involved.
If you’re on the more brownish side of things (like my mother and brother are)
then you will not be as affected as the people who are more light-skinned
(like the guy from the submitted post). There’s also the fact that our
grandparents managed just fine to work all day long in broad sunlight without
developing skin diseases, but it’s also true that they would almost never wear
short-sleeved stuff and they would always keep their head covered under
intense sunlight. Nowadays it’s almost a matter of pride among some people
(think Nordic or British tourists) to show off how red-skinned they have
become after just a couple of days spent in Greece or Southern Spain, it’s
nuts.

Later edit: I’m talking about something like this [1], you can see how no
person in that photo wears anything short-sleeved and you can also see that
almost everyone has their head covered, with the exception of those two guys
who probably took their hats off in order to enjoy the tzuica or palinka.

[1]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Harvest_time_in_Romania...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Harvest_time_in_Romania,_1920.jpg)

~~~
benologist
I think it depends on tropical location more than anything else. The sun is
much more potent. My grandfather in northern Australia had many cancers
removed from his face, ears, neck, shoulders, arms and legs. Today skin cancer
occurs in roughly 2 out of 3 people in Australia.

