
Confessions of a Paleo Diet Pioneer - adamqureshi
http://www.wsj.com/articles/an-evolutionary-guide-revised-on-what-to-eat-1453306447?tesla=y
======
noondip
The evidence for plant-based, low-fat vegan diets seems more convincing to me.
Is there a paleo version of
[http://nutritionfacts.org](http://nutritionfacts.org) \- complete with direct
links or citations to research supporting the proposed way to eat? I'm not
trying to be snarky, but rather genuinely curious what scientific basis this
diet really has. The article says we're wise to limit saturated fat intake and
increase fibre intake, but isn't that antithetical to eating meat and animal
products?

~~~
clumsysmurf
If you like nutritionfacts.org, you may be interested to know Greger wrote a
book which is well referenced:

[http://www.amazon.com/How-Not-Die-Discover-
Scientifically/dp...](http://www.amazon.com/How-Not-Die-Discover-
Scientifically/dp/1250066115/)

Also, there was a recent article on Vox talking about why nutrition research
is so hard to do:

[http://www.vox.com/2016/1/14/10760622/nutrition-science-
comp...](http://www.vox.com/2016/1/14/10760622/nutrition-science-complicated)

~~~
twistedanimator
And if you have an Android phone, I created an app for the section of the book
about the Daily Dozen foods you should be eating every day. Here is a link if
you are interested:
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.slavick.da...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.slavick.dailydozen)

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legulere
> Recent data on these issues make me more comfortable today saying what not
> to eat. Our ancestors had no ...

Isn't that yet another fallacy? Just because our ancestors didn't have it,
doesn't automatically mean it's bad for us. If we can learn anything at all
from our ancestors, then it's that the human body is pretty adoptable to
different food sources. So if we want to know what's bad for us we should
simply do studies today. It's not that I disagree with the recommendations,
but I find the way of reasoning flawed.

~~~
woodandsteel
In the case of refined carbohydrates, there is abundant evidence that they are
bad for us.

------
jmnicolas
> Most humans have to avoid dairy; many must avoid wheat. Find out if you’re
> one of them.

And how do I find out if I have to avoid dairy or wheat ? Last year I stopped
eating them for a couple of months but didn't see a notable difference in my
general well being.

~~~
nkrisc
If you noticed no difference, that seems like a good sign it might be alright
for you. That said, based on people I know, those who should not be eating
dairy or wheat get various levels of intestinal distress if they do; it's
pretty obvious.

But most importantly, consult a doctor or other medical professional if you
need more information.

~~~
stinos
_it 's pretty obvious_

this is what I don't get: author says _most_ should avoid dairy, you (and
others) say it's easy to recognize problems with eating it. Yet the vast
majority of all people I know have no problems with dairy whatsoever. So is
the author wrong, does he mean something else, do I live with people who can't
recognize problems originating from dairy use or do I live with a special
subgroup of people who all happen to have no problem with dairy?

~~~
apendleton
For dairy in particular, it's the last one. Globally, lactose persistence (the
opposite of lactose intolerance) is a minority trait that appears to have
arisen in populations that raised domesticated cattle, but not elsewhere. Most
African and southeast Asian adults, for example, are lactose intolerant. See
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactase_persistence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactase_persistence)

~~~
nkrisc
I just wanted to point out that African and Asian adults would certainly
constitute "most" people, based on population. As I understand it, populations
that can consume dairy tend to be centered on Northern Europe, a very small
fraction of the global population.

I'll only speak for myself, but I was first thrown off by the "most" part as
well, until I realized I had a pretty Euro-centric view of it. "Most people I
know have no problem with dairy," I thought to myself. Then I remembered most
people I know have European ancestry.

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devy
Does the below excerpt alleviate the belief that GMO foods are harmful?

    
    
        In 1985 scientists believed that few genetic changes had occurred since we were all
        hunting and gathering, say 10,000 years ago. Now we know that lots of genes 
        have changed. One fascinating new finding is that within the last few thousand  
        years Eskimos evolved genes for enzymes to process the fatty acids in Arctic 
        fish.

~~~
enqk
Only if you believe the process followed by GMO engineering is the same as the
process of selective breeding

~~~
devy
So your point is ... the same or not?

~~~
enqk
Well I am careful because I am not a specialist. One would however expect GMO
engineers to use techniques that are atypical of the way nature explores the
possibility space. It is telling that they call it engineering, which requires
intent and goals.

Therefore I don't think knowing that selectively bred organisms have been safe
so far says anything about the safety of GMOs.

------
ideonexus
I've always appreciated Michael Pollan's essay (and books) on this subject.
His advice can be summed up as "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." [1] In
his books he argues strongly against the nutritionist strategy of trying to
separate out the healthy components of foods from the foods themselves. For
example, I know many nutritionists who take vitamins, but Pollan points out
when you take the Vitamin C without the orange we normally get it from, you
loose all that dietary fiber. This is what he means by "eat food."

Along these lines, while I have many quibbles with the paleo diet's
recommendations, my biggest complain is calling it "paleo." The paleolithic
era of human history lasted from 2.5 million years ago to 10,0000 years ago
[2], when agriculture took over and we adapted to an entirely new diet. Almost
nothing we eat today existed 3,000-10,000 years ago: corn was just grass,
tomatoes were berries, lettuce was weeds, and all animal-food sources were
free-range, tough to chew, and gamey in flavor. One of the starkest examples
of this for me is the peach, which was mostly just a pit with no meat until
generations of farmers spent 6,000 years turning it into the meaty succulent
fruit we know today [3]. Our paleolithic ancestors spent all day nibbling on
seeds, berries, various leaves, and insects trying to just stay alive; our
agrarian ancestors transformed the Earth into the relative paradise of
bountiful fruits, vegetables, and livestock that theologians would later
attribute to gods.

This said, I appreciate that this author is speaking out against the high-
carb, high-sugar foodstuffs corporations are pouring into us by adding sugar
and salt to EVERYTHING. The key quote in this essay is, "Recent data on these
issues make me more comfortable today saying what _not_ to eat." I think we
all need to start pushing back as consumers against the sugar, salt, and
simple carbohydrates the food manufacturers engineer into everything we eat to
addict our brains and keep us coming back for more.

[1]
[http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/magazine/28nutritionism.t....](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/magazine/28nutritionism.t.html?_r=0)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic)

[3]
[https://jameskennedymonash.wordpress.com/2014/07/09/artifici...](https://jameskennedymonash.wordpress.com/2014/07/09/artificial-
vs-natural-peach/)

~~~
_greim_
I've heard mixed things about salt. For example, look at the results in this
Google search[1]. "Salt is obviously bad." "It's a myth, salt is probably
fine." Etc. My takeaway has been that, as long as you don't have high blood
pressure or some specific condition, the typical amount of salt in modern
diets is fine.

[1]
[https://www.google.com/search?q=salt+in+diet&ie=utf-8&oe=utf...](https://www.google.com/search?q=salt+in+diet&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8)

~~~
noondip
> My takeaway has been that, as long as you don't have high blood pressure or
> some specific condition, the typical amount of salt in modern diets is fine.

But, salt is exactly what raises blood pressure in the first place. Take a
look at this - [http://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-evidence-that-salt-
raise...](http://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-evidence-that-salt-raises-blood-
pressure/)

------
bfrancom01
"Clean eating is about feelings, not reality."
[https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-clean-eating-
delusi...](https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-clean-eating-delusion/)

------
JennyGrayson
I know most of us start a diet just to lose weight (I know I did), but paleo
has really become a lifestyle, and a life changing decision for me. Losing
weight was just an added bonus, but the true benefits were great for my health
in general. I'm using the paleo grub cookbook, you can check it out at
[http://lookingupstuff.com/weightloss/2015/04/23/paleo-
grubs/](http://lookingupstuff.com/weightloss/2015/04/23/paleo-grubs/)

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tkyjonathan
Whoa.. way more vegan hackers than I ever imagined!

------
kyrre
we know what the current mainstream high-carb diet will lead to: epidemic
levels of obesity and type 2 diabetes.

bon appétit.

------
tkyjonathan
Whole-food plant-based vegan here. Life is good. Energy is high.

~~~
pc86
Okay, so we've got the unrelated vegan comment, there's already an unrelated
CrossFit comment, all we need is someone to mention they're an atheist and
we've got the trifecta.

It's almost as if nutrition is incredibly complex and different things work
for different people.

~~~
pluma
Funny you should mention that.

As a Christian I think you should eat everything there is because if God put
it there, He obviously intended us to use it.

~~~
tkyjonathan
I thought God mentioned something about humans protecting animals? Then fall
of man happened and something changed..

~~~
pluma
You'd think so but as with any religion there are different interpretations.
There's a very libertarian (economically speaking, not civil rights) strand of
Christianity that can be summarized in what I parodied: because the world was
intelligently designed it's our god-given right to subdue nature and make the
best use of it.

------
bunkydoo
The only person I know who did this diet ended up staying 350 pounds with
persisting respitory issues. (Obviously present before the diet) he sat on me
the other day and just about crushed my rib cage. But I'm still at a cool 135
lbs just eating whatever I want (which is surprisingly almost entirely organic
foods) I'm here to tell you, Paleo probably doesn't do shit besides stroke
your fucking ego into thinking you're a caveman or some dumbass shit.

~~~
Someone1234
One anecdote, one data point.

Paleo isn't magic, but it is consistent with previous advice. High in fruits,
veggies, seafoods, nuts, and unprocessed meats. Low in sugars, other processed
foods, grains, and dairy.

I'm sure someone could do Paleo and stay 350 pounds, but that would be hard as
eating almost 3000 calories a day from fruits, veggies, seafoods, nuts, and
unprocessed meats is hard since they're so filling per weight (as opposed to
sugar in particular which is not at all filing per weight).

To be honest you can simplify Paleo thusly: Drop sugar from your diet as
completely as possible.

