
Habits of Highly Miserable People - gscott
https://www.alternet.org/print/here-are-14-habits-highly-miserable-people
======
DoreenMichele
_Give yourself a negative identity_

I was sexually abused as a child. I spent a total of about 3.5 years in
therapy, a year in my teens and 2.5 years in my twenties.

Therapy was valuable, but I quit in large part for the above reason: I was at
a point where spending an hour or more every week digging around in the dirt
of my past was just keeping alive an identity as a victim. It was keeping me
stuck. It was keeping me miserable.

So I spent the next few years focused on Getting A Life and practicing the art
of Living Well Is The Best Revenge. And it's one of the wisest moves I ever
made.

~~~
RIMR
I know this is a bit of a controversial opinion, but I always felt that
society's reaction to sexual assault give victims a reason to feel even worse
about their situation.

Not to say that it isn't a severely traumatic thing to experience - it
absolutely is. But, we regularly treat virginity as some sort of virtuous
status - and then speak of rape victims who lost their virginity to their
attacker as if they were stripped of some sort of human value in the process.

We speak of rape very matter-of-factly about how it ruins lives, ruins women
for marriage, emasculates men, and follows you for life. For a victim, this
almost feels like the world telling you how defeated you are supposed to feel.

I feel like way too much of society's response is about pitying the victim,
and not enough of the response is about moving forward and getting past the
trauma and living a normal, happy life.

I am also an American, and we tend to focus more on the negative. Many times,
when I have expressed this opinion, people have been upset because my feelings
don't put enough negativity on the actions of the attacker - but really, the
attacker means nothing to me, only the recovery and wellbeing of the victim.

~~~
DoreenMichele
I agree with you. I have often gotten reactions of pity and the like for
speaking openly of my experiences. I do my best to give polite push back
against it.

I was raised with the idea that the shame is on the rapist, not the victim. I
was raised with the idea that people who treat the victim in a shaming way are
part of the problem.

Being open about this aspect of my life is probably the single most
"political" thing I do. I strongly agree with the things I was taught on this
subject.

FWIW, I likely did not lose my virginity to rape insofar as the detail of my
hymen being ruptured. That probably occurred many years earlier when I fell at
age 4 while trying to use a chair as a ladder.

~~~
jtmb
How would you recommend expressing support, not minimizing these experiences
while also not assuming victimization?

~~~
DoreenMichele
Some years ago, an internet friend of mine asked me for advice concerning an
appropriate Christmas present for a woman he and his wife were helping while
she left an abusive marriage. I tried to delicately hint that her husband had
to also be raping her, given the description I was hearing. I failed to be
subtle and he did an internet search and verified that what I was saying was
true: she had all the markings of a seriously traumatized rape victim.

What I told him was that at some point she would divulge this to him and he
needed to deal with his own feelings before then and not make the discussion
about his feelings. He needed to respect the fact that she had already
survived a lot of terrible things and yet found the strength to leave and
start rebuilding her life.

It went like I predicted. He was able to be supportive and she made great
strides in the following months towards putting her life back together.

It's fine to validate that a person was, in fact, victimized so long as the
focus is on "That person did you wrong" and not on pitying the person who was
mistreated.

The problem is that this is old news to the victim but new information for the
person they are telling. And the person they are telling typically has a very
big emotional reaction. After that, the conversation is about that person's
feelings, identity and mental models, not about the feelings, identity and
mental models of the person disclosing that they were assaulted.

The strong emotional reaction of the person receiving the information helps to
keep victims silent and trapped in their silence because these reactions
either burden them with dealing with this new person's feelings etc or it
makes the victim feel guilty of emotionally and psychologically harming other
people in their attempts to try to get help of some sort.

Having been victimized, most survivors are pretty horrified at the idea of
knowingly and intentionally hurting other people. This is a huge barrier to
reaching out for support.

Validation is really powerful and healing. Just don't make your feelings and
your identity their problem.

By _identity,_ I mean in part things like insisting you are a nice, good,
caring, helpful, knowledgeable person while doing counterproductive things. A
lot of people feel a tremendous need to have their own goodness validated in
such situations and it often comes at the expense of the person who confided
in them.

Don't try to fix them. Attempting to fix them just reinforces the idea that
they are broken.

Listen. Validate that what was done to them was terrible and wrong. Give them
breathing room to feel their feelings, whatever they are, and validate that it
is okay to feel whatever they feel about that.

If it is hard for you to hear and if you have no idea what to do, say so in a
way that doesn't blame them, such as "No one has ever confided something like
this in me before, so I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm honored that you
would entrust this information to me. I'll do my best, but I'm sure to make
some mistakes."

Then, if they give you push back on something, respect that. Don't try to
insist they are wrong and broken and you are right.

That's kind of rambly and I'm not at my best today. Hopefully, there are a few
useful takeaways in there that will serve your needs.

~~~
ScottBurson
This is really good stuff, and I didn't find it "rambly" at all. Do you blog?
This would make a great blog post, just as it is.

------
maerF0x0
>Exercise: Sit in a comfortable chair, close your eyes, and, for 15 minutes,
meditate on all the things you could lose: your job, your house, your savings,
and so forth. Then brood about living in a homeless shelter.

really roughly this is what stoics do, yet somehow they come to the conclusion
"actually, what was i fearing? Proceed with adventure"...

~~~
jasonkostempski
Those things never really scared me. Do they also meditate on being sick, in
constant crippling pain and come to the same conclusion? I get a stomachache
and recognize a bad personality change in myself. I dont imagine id be able to
draw on the same mental skills while in that state for prolonged periods.

~~~
ulisesrmzroche
I think this is a better exercise. I stole it from Seneca.

Look at the back of your wrists: see those fragile greenish-blue veins?

What if tomorrow - while thinking about some problem with money or love - you
trip and fall, and a particularly sharp rock on the ground or a shard of glass
on the street cuts one of those thin exposed blue-green veins open?

~~~
throwawaymath
What is the reaction you're "supposed" to get by thinking about that? I took a
moment to think about it and I don't think I got it. My reaction was, "Well
then I probably die", but I don't feel particularly different about the
present.

If that's the thing I'm supposed to feel then so be it, but I feel Seneca
intended for some greater profundity, or he would dispense with the mental
theatrics. What am I missing? Does it need to be more visceral?

~~~
PascLeRasc
This is the first time I've heard the quote, but I think it's to appreciate
that life is short and could end at any time, and while bleeding out you'd
realize that worrying about these long-term things was a waste of time.

~~~
Draiken
That's not exactly the purpose Stoics do that AFAIK.

One of the objectives is to appreciate what you have right now and stopping
this urge that we have in today's society to always get more.

If you stop and really think about how bad it would be to live without your
eyesight, for example, you can appreciate even the smallest things we take for
granted.

It's not supposed to be a "carpe diem" thing.

~~~
posterboy
> carpo#Latin

> Compare Greek καρπός (karpós, “fruit”) and κείρω (keírō, “to cut off”),
> English harvest, sharp, shear.

Carpe diem totally fits; You just have to consider that an optimum can be
approached from two sides, ie the right time to harvest, neither too soon nor
too late. In another sense it might mean the day is ripe, I guess. But it's
not cape diem, not take the day away.

~~~
Draiken
I always see this expression being used as some kind of "live life to the
fullest" context. Which is what I think is wrong.

Never went after the etymology of it, interesting how it has nothing to do
with "seize the day" as I originally thought.

------
Tade0
> 5\. Attribute bad intentions.

Me and my SO have serendipitously discovered a great way to defuse arguments:
it's the question "Are you accusing me of foulness?" (any sufficiently
Victorian synonym works here)

For some reason most people reflexively deny this in reply and realise that
they've been attributing bad intentions groundlessly.

Unfortunately this doesn't work on people who have a mindset which requires
there to always be someone at fault.

~~~
tomnipotent
Reminds me of the Principle of charity [1] that _" requires interpreting a
speaker's statements in the most rational way possible and, in the case of any
argument, considering its best, strongest possible interpretation"_.

I've found adopting this mindset to be one of the most important habits I've
picked up, and eliminates so much drama.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity)

~~~
dwcnnnghm
This is also the basis of the Steel Man Argument [0] [1], as opposed to Straw-
manning. Instead of attacking (basically nitpicking) the easy missteps in your
opponent's reasoning, find the _best_ form of their argument, and then argue
with this. It seems to me as the ideal way to both win over those on the other
side and provide yourself with a solid ground. You present yourself as
avoiding undermining their position (really listening and caring to understand
where they are coming from) and present a better argument yourself.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man#Steelmanning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man#Steelmanning)

[1] [https://lifehacker.com/utilize-the-steel-man-tactic-to-
argue...](https://lifehacker.com/utilize-the-steel-man-tactic-to-argue-more-
effectivel-1632402742)

~~~
pbhjpbhj
The strawman can be stripped down gradually to find the truth.

The steel man locks the truth somewhere inside; and one doesn't look in case
ones conversational partner feels offended by being wrong.

Of course you can't tell me I'm wrong; because you have to give my argument
the best possible interpretation even if it doesn't deserve it ...!

~~~
scarejunba
I’m not interested in telling you you’re wrong. You being wrong is your
problem. I’m interested in my being right. If I can extract some information
from our conversation that moves me to a better understanding of things then I
have done all right from the interaction (assuming the time involved is
short). The steel man allows me to extract this information from the
interaction.

In practice, if someone isn’t capable of using the information I provide to
re-assess their position, continued interaction is likely to be low quality.
This isn’t a fault thing. It could just be that I’m incapable of interacting
reasonably with this person. Either way, it’s then time to disengage.

------
kristianc
I’m no expert on abject misery but reading 12pt serif text with a ridiculous
line length on an iPhone screen has got to come pretty close.

~~~
ModernMech
"14\. Be critical. Make sure to have an endless list of dislikes and voice
them often, whether or not your opinion is solicited. For example, don’t
hesitate to say, “That’s what you chose to wear this morning?” or “Why is your
voice so shrill?” If someone is eating eggs, tell them you don’t like eggs.
Your negativity can be applied to almost anything."

~~~
yjftsjthsd-h
You can, for instance, object to perfectly valid criticisms. How dare this
person question legibility!

~~~
scarejunba
This is a solved problem. Adjust your user agent.

------
foxhill
having been, for want of a better term, ‘highly miserable’ in the past, the
entirety of this article comes across as insidiously toxic and detrimental to
the mental well-being of those who are suffering.

there is a.. loosely similar CGP Grey video, which approaches the matter in a
much more rational context [1]

for anyone suffering, i emplore you to not read this and watch this instead;

[1] -
[https://youtube.com/watch?v=LO1mTELoj6o](https://youtube.com/watch?v=LO1mTELoj6o)

~~~
hn_throwaway_99
Amen.

I didn't watch your linked video, but I definitely agreed with your post. As
someone who has also been highly miserable (aka clinically depressed) in the
past, various sentiments along the line of "come on, life is great, why can't
you appreciate it?" and "that's no so bad, suck it up" most definitely did NOT
help me overcome my depression.

Which makes me wonder: if the purpose of this post is to belittle "miserable"
people, well I guess it succeeds, but then that seems a pretty miserable thing
to do in the first place. If the purpose is to ironically remind folks that
there are easy things you can do to not be miserable, I don't think it's doing
it in a particularly effective way.

~~~
creddit
Having been both clinically depressed and just generally negative and
miserable, I think there's a large difference. This article addresses the
latter of those two situations in a way that resonated pretty deeply with me.
Clinical depression is drastically different and should be treated more as a
disease than a state of mind. I don't believe this article comes across as
suggesting its conclusions can treat clinical depression but rather are the
symptoms of highly negative and miserable states of mind.

~~~
unclebucknasty
Hard to distinguish, as clinical depression produces many of the maligned
behaviors, making it reasonable to read this piece as an attack on those
suffering.

OTOH, there is a CBT angle here. That is, a depressed person may find relief
in working to recognize and change the behaviors and thinking that supports
those behaviors.

------
darkkindness
> 3\. Give yourself a negative identity. Allow a perceived emotional problem
> to absorb all other aspects of your self-identification. If you feel
> depressed, become a Depressed Person; if you suffer from social anxiety or a
> phobia, assume the identity of a Phobic Person or a Person with Anxiety
> Disorder. Make your condition the focus of your life.

I think a couple of us in comments are rightly angry about this point, since
it's easily read as a "hide and get over it" to those with real mental health
conditions.

But it isn't. It's saying to not wholly "identify as a Depressed person". It's
making sure you know the difference between living like "It's harder for me to
get out of bed" and "I can't get out of bed, I'm depressed." The first one is
an attitude that makes recovery an option. The second lifestyle is the trap
that highly miserable people find themselves in.

I think this difference is really important. Kudos to the author for
highlighting it.

------
fwip
Number 3, "Give yourself a negative identity," just sounds like "I don't like
when people have mental health problems. Get over it already."

~~~
solarkraft
Not fully. The point (I think) is not letting oneself be consumed by a problem
& constantly identifying to be about it. There are _way_ more things to define
you.

~~~
RIMR
Precisely.

There's a huge difference between saying "I have severe depression, and it
takes great effort for me to get through a day without buckling" and saying "I
have severe depression, so my daily mental breakdowns aren't my fault".

~~~
lists
Those aren't mutually exclusive

~~~
ehnto
True, but I think they were alluding to the difference in outlook that
suggests who takes responsibility for the downsides. One way is using it as an
excuse to dismiss others concerns and the other way is having empathy toward
how your situatiom affects others and acknowledging their side of the same
challenge.

------
cheshire_cat
This reminds me of the great book "The Situation Is Hopeless But Not Serious"
[0] by the Austrian-American psychologist Paul Watzlawick. Excellent use of
reverse psychology, let's you realize how many of those approaches you tend to
use in your daily life.

[0] [https://www.amazon.com/Situation-Hopeless-Serious-Pursuit-
Un...](https://www.amazon.com/Situation-Hopeless-Serious-Pursuit-
Unhappiness/dp/0393310213)

~~~
GLjEI4YbnGD27LB
I liked How to Be Miserable: 40 Strategies You Already Use. Which also helped
with showing underrated strategies for upping happiness.

[https://www.amazon.com/How-Be-Miserable-Strategies-
Already/d...](https://www.amazon.com/How-Be-Miserable-Strategies-
Already/dp/1626254060)

------
huangc10
> 12\. Glorify or vilify the past.

Do not do this. Do not live in the past. Do not think about what might, what
could, what should have happened. Learn from it and move onwards. Nothing good
comes from constantly dwelling on things that can't be changed.

~~~
lkrubner
Goes to identity. Telling people not to do this is pointless unless you can
suggest another way to construct identity. A person without a past is... an
interesting thought experiment, but not something that exists in the real
world. Identity builds up in layers -- what is your nation, your religion,
your favorite team, your hometown, your college, your spouse, your child. If
you give all of that up, then who are you? What are your goals? What do you
believe in? What are you willing to fight for? What gives life meaning?

A better bit of advice is "avoid ruminating" and this applies to every
thought, not just the ones that involve the past. But even that is not easy,
especially for those who create things, since to create something you have to
ruminate on it heavily, for months or years -- this is probably why there is
an overlap between depression and creativity.

~~~
jschwartzi
The key difference between rumination and self-reflection is that rumination
doesn't accomplish anything. As soon as you finish examining whatever you were
examining, you're right back at square one with no new insights. It's
essentially beating yourself up for doing the best you can.

Self-reflection seems like rumination, but the goal is to learn something from
whatever you're examining. To take a lesson from it, if there is a lesson. Not
every moment is a teachable moment. If you're lucky, many of them are.

Sometimes an experience is just an experience, and there's nothing different
you could or should have done. Take, for example, the numerous times I've been
honked at in traffic. Is there some hidden meaning in those beeps? Should I
have been paying more attention in that moment? Or did I make an honest
mistake? If it's an honest mistake, there's nothing I can really do. No
magical training regimen will make me an infallible driver, so I have to move
on.

It's tempting in some cases to keep looking for a lesson. Some experiences
will never contain a lesson no matter how hard you look. Rumination is
cultivating the desert of those experiences.

~~~
lkrubner
" _The key difference between rumination and self-reflection is that
rumination doesn 't accomplish anything_"

The fundamental activity involves reviewing a thought over and over again,
sometimes thousands of times over many years. Sometimes this leads to a new
painting, a new novel, a new movie script, a new piece of software, or a new
insight about something that happened to you as a child. Sometimes a person
fails to make any progress.

You write "The key difference" but these are words without meaning. Sometimes
you ruminate on a novel you are writing, but you can't figure out the ending,
so you accomplish nothing. Sometimes you ruminate on that time you insulted
your alcoholic brother and the next month he killed himself, but this time,
reviewing the memory, you recall that he'd said he was going to kill himself
long before, so it wasn't really your fault.

There is a reason why therapists often want to talk about a person's childhood
-- sometimes reviewing the past leads to a new insight. Sometimes it doesn't.
You can't judge the value of the activity simply by whether it produces
something. Sometimes it will and sometimes it won't.

------
abvdasker
The reason this list is so relatable is because all of these behaviors are
things normal, healthy people do. It's just a matter of degree, which is true
of just about any behavior. If you take anything too far it will make you
miserable.

It's possible to reframe every single one of these behaviors in a positive
light.

------
cjen
CGP Grey made a great video [0] pretty similar to this, it has a bunch of
points about physical things (changing sleep schedule, staying indoors) and
keeps the same sarcastic tone.

[0]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO1mTELoj6o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO1mTELoj6o)

------
wb36
"when your living conditions are stable, peaceful, and prosperous—no civil
wars raging in your streets, no mass hunger, no epidemic disease, no vexation
from poverty—making yourself miserable is a craft all its own, requiring
imagination, vision, and ingenuity."

On the contrary, Tribe by sebastian junger has me fairly convinced me that the
irony here is that people band together, find a sense of belonging and often
psychological well being under strenuous circumstances more naturally than
they do in peaceful, every man for himself and his or her own pursuit of
happiness times.

~~~
flyGuyOnTheSly
It's almost as if we were hardwired through millions of years of evolution to
enjoy and thrive struggling through difficult conditions... Interesting!

------
asdsa5325
It seems like many people in this thread missed the sarcastic tone of the
article...

~~~
mirimir
Well, I just about stopped reading at

> Let’s exclude some obvious ways, like doing drugs ...

Not entirely, though. But I did get disgusted not long after, by the smug
tone.

Maybe it's all sarcastic ranting about self-help literature. But even if so, I
didn't find it very funny.

~~~
lopmotr
Yes, it seemed a bit random and confusing to me. I didn't think drugs or
gambling obviously made people miserable - aren't they purpose made for
pleasure? They don't really annoy other people either which turned out to be
what the list was actually about - it should be called "Behaviors I don't like
in other people because I don't know how to handle them".

~~~
zbentley
They are purpose made for pleasure, but not happiness.

Put another way: those things are constructed to induce a point-in-time
pleasurable state of mind; not create lasting happiness—in fact, they are
often at odds with sustainable positivity due to their risk/feedback/reward
cyclic nature.

~~~
bernardino
Maybe it’s just semantics but what is the distinction between doing something
like drugs for pleasure versus doing something like drugs for escapism? Do
they overlap?

I’m now oddly reminded of Freud’s Civilisation and It’s Discontents, where he
talks about the pleasure principle, etc — I should pick it up again but it
felt tedious.

------
narag
I used to know the person that probably served as a model for this article.

Not only does this method work to make yourself miserable, but also all the
people around you. If you detect this behaviour, run like hell.

~~~
seszett
I did not think these things were so simple, but... yes, I used to know
someone that could have served as a model for the article as well. Every
single point seems to apply to this person.

This list can hurt some feelings, but it sure could help some people if it was
more widely known.

~~~
narag
It seems to me that the people with hurt feelings are not exactly the same as
the ones described by the article.

4, 5, 7, 9, 13 and 14 are definitely hostile behaviours. They're also self-
damaging because, as I advised, people runs. But these behaviours are firstly
and foremost against others.

If someone gets hurt feelings about those, I'm fine with it.

------
strict9
>Be afraid, be very afraid, of economic loss.

I've always made a mental connection between permabears/zerohedge readers as
likely miserable and unhappy people. The wild conspiracy theories and general
hatred of certain groups in comment sections doesn't help, but noticed online
and in person that people who are always predicting/worrying about the next
catastrophe (financial or otherwise) generally lead unhappy lives.

~~~
beat
Historically, the market has been great across the board for as long as most
people have been alive (do you know anyone who was alive during the Great
Depression and is alive today?). But doom-and-gloom negativity about the
economy is a great marketing approach. It hits some button people have, gets
them to buy gold or whatever other paranoid nonsense will save them from the
Coming Economic Collapse.

~~~
wallace_f
I know where you're coming from, but here in the states a lot of real people
are struggling to afford real goods and services that they need to stay alive:
housing, healthcare, education, etc.

I wouldn't say economic anxiety is just 'nonsense fueled by conspiracy
theorists.'

~~~
beat
I'm not saying economic anxiety is nonsense.

I'm saying scenarios of imminent collapse of the economy are nonsense.

------
dragon96
I feel like this article offers a lot of good points and factors to be aware
of when sad, but it doesn't really point at ways to change. Anyone want to
help compile a list of actionables or things to consider that you've
personally found helpful?

I'll start:

> 2\. Practice sustained boredom.

I find that a pretty decent solution to being bored is to do something that
I've been trying to avoid for a while, like running an errand or trying to
learn something very technical. I find that feeling reluctant/frustrated often
ends up being better than feeling like there's nothing to do, and usually
doing this comes with a pretty handsome feel-good when you finally finish that
errand or figure out what the darned textbook is trying to say.

------
jokoon
I get that it's a satirical article, but I don't understand the point it's
making.

This is the result of people having the psycho rigidity to assume happiness is
the golden standard of life, the moral standard of "things that are good, and
things that are bad".

"Things could be worse" is a good enough way to look at things, but
ultimately, when people have bad feelings, remember it can stem from their
biology, education or way of life.

It's important to concede that certain things can be deterministic in life.
What is worse is this obsession to always get better in every minute of your
life. Cults have similar obsessions.

Just let go a little.

------
deviationblue
This article exists with the value judgement that being not miserable is some
kind of boon or "positive" or "good thing". Anything that starts with that
kind of implied value judgement w/o anything substantive can be disregarded.

Edit to add: Seriously though, a healthy amount of cynicism is required for
critical thinking. If you try too hard to be something, whether that's happy
or positive or whatever, you're depriving yourself from thinking of everything
that might comprise a reality, and thus looking at just half of it. But yeah,
too much of anything is bad.

[Also, I get sarcasm, you should too, hopefully].

~~~
tlynchpin
".. a healthy amount of skepticism is required .."

------
himom
This article alludes to the importance of ego death: the entire spectrum of
positive to negative self-perceptions are entirely mutable. You might’ve
thought you were an awkward dork at one point, so you fulfilled your own
expectations with subtle self-sabotaging behaviors to reinforce this identity
persona.

More importantly, FIUYMI is a perfectly-viable strategy because it sells a
persona to the practitioner’s self via repeated exposure.

Another consideration is to do all that is possible, while impossible, to
remove ego from thoughts and instead focus as a trained observer: perceiving
and gathering data.

------
star0zero
15\. Click on any of the links in the Trending Now section at the bottom of
the article.

------
arcturus17
It's ironic how the author comes across as utterly condescending and miserable
herself. I don't see how this article may be helpful to anyone struggling with
mental health issues, nor to their loved ones or therapists. Completely
uninspired in its tone, exaggerated in its content, and unintelligible in its
objectives.

------
zerostar07
Well great advice so i should follow it: If you are a stoic, positive person
who doesn't negatively affect the life of others and your own, do not make the
mistake to think you have it good. You re just a convenient person,
transparent and invisible to everyone because people like drama, they don't
like rocks.

~~~
SZJX
Not sure what point you're trying to make here. Some people want drama and
arguments which do them and others no good. You are staying out of it. You're
achieving your aims, making contributions that you think matter, and living a
fulfilling life even though some others might not be so close to you much.
What's the big deal? Isn't that exactly the point of stoicism?

------
dm319
This article muddles association with causation.

I think it's dangerous to assume that these traits cause unhappiness, even if
that might be true for some people in particular cases.

If you are less happy, you are probably less likely to take a risk with your
job. If you are less happy, you a probably more likely to start a fight or
fall out with your partner. If you are less happy you are likely to give
yourself a negative identity. etc etc etc etc..

I don't get the feeling that this article is written by someone who has
brought themselves on a journey out of unhappiness, but rather by someone who
is irritated by someone else's unhappiness.

------
ponderatul
Please add lose yourself in your world of unrealistic fantasy. Watch porn, a
lot of it. Allow yourself to get consumed by it. See people as objects. Then
watch more porn.

Start gambling, with your money first, then with other peoples' money. You are
entitled to that money even though it's theirs. Society owes you a lot
already.

Even better, combine the two, do online strip poker. Do anything but face the
often less colourful reality.

------
inoop
Why do I get the feeling that whoever wrote this just came out of a bad
relationship?

~~~
bcoates
Yeah, I feel like every headline is missing a ", Sharon!" at the end.

------
SZJX
It's a really helpful list pointing out some of the cognitive traps people
might not be aware of having/might not understand that somebody around them
needs help on. One gripe I have with it is that some stoic traits seem to also
have been thrown in here which is a bit off. Being stoic/always be prepared
for bad possibilities while working towards the good ones doesn't mean being
miserable, pessimistic or depressed. It's just a way to keep on sailing in
your life no matter what the conditions are. Also I'm not so sure about "quit
your job, clean out your savings account, and move to a state you know nothing
about." I guess it's a matter of how this person is exactly treating it:
Whether as a new chapter in one's adventure for a life-loving person or just a
getaway from one's undesired and perennial boredom then.

------
Karunamon
The rest of the list notwithstanding, this one got me thinking:

> _Well-meaning friends and relatives will try to sabotage your efforts to be
> thankless. For example, while you’re in the middle of complaining about the
> project you procrastinated on at work to your spouse during an unhealthy
> dinner, he or she might try to remind you of how grateful you should be to
> have a job or food at all._

Am I the only person who finds these sorts of pithy attempts to be
_colossally_ irritating?

Feeling sad/depressed? _Cheer up!_

Feeling overwhelmed? _It 's not so bad!_

Job annoying you? _At least you have a job!_

Yes, thank you for the comment and completely shutting down my attempts at
commiserating. Now am I not only still bothered by what I was originally
bothered by, I'm annoyed at the interlocutor.

Perhaps I'm only 1/14th miserable? :)

~~~
dsego
> It’s inevitable that as you make yourself miserable, you’ll be making those
> around you miserable also, at least until they leave you—which will give you
> another reason to feel miserable.

------
s-shellfish
More people in the field of mental health should have a sense of humor like
this.

------
Bakary
I think the sarcastic tone of the article is extremely effective at getting
its message across. It felt like been repeatedly slapped in the face but
ending up grateful for the experience at the end.

------
ppeetteerr
Love the list, hate the attitude

~~~
Bakary
The attitude is what makes the list useful to those who might benefit from it.

~~~
ppeetteerr
You'll have to take my word that the list has the opposite effect of being
helpful. It's rather off-putting to read despite being quite accurate.

~~~
bfhd
It's okay - you aren't one of the people who would be helped by this article.
But some people would be.

------
empressplay
This is from 2013 (I checked because I thought I was having deja vu)

[https://www.alternet.org/personal-health/14-habits-highly-
mi...](https://www.alternet.org/personal-health/14-habits-highly-miserable-
people)

------
HeavyStorm
Not sure why that article has made anywhere on HN. The writer shows a lot of
contempt for "feeling miserable", and foster the illusion that people are
actually in total control of their feeling and emotions.

------
hypertexthero
Reminds me of the end of John Cleese’s talk on creativity:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb5oIIPO62g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb5oIIPO62g)

------
davesque
Clever article. Although it's a bit ironic that it appears on that site, which
seems to be dedicated to anxiety-inducing political news.

------
overton
Take from this what you will:

If you don't have a serious mental illness, you can't even imagine the
excruciating agony.

------
jhsu
reminds me of this by dandelion hands - how to never stop being sad:
[https://open.spotify.com/track/6ZLt6fyonW1xOGMBC9vJPJ?si=PGM...](https://open.spotify.com/track/6ZLt6fyonW1xOGMBC9vJPJ?si=PGM3sZFZS_ujYGgB3xQnSg)

------
the_arun
Any of you seen this kind of miserable people? or this is stretching our
imagination?

~~~
jamesissac
I can identify with a couple of the points and I can be quite miserable at
times. I'm working on addressing it.

------
bambax
> _Have an affair (...) Don 't enjoy life's pleasures_

So... which is it?

> _Taking pleasure in things like food, wine, music, and beauty is for
> flighty, shallow people._

Why is sex not listed in "life's pleasures"?

~~~
gowld
"affair" in this context means "cheating on your partner".

The list of life's pleasures is not exhaustive.

------
texan
Should be titled: How To Drive Yourself To Suicide

------
havemylife
This is perspicaciously cynical. I love it.

~~~
mda
I think tone of the article is disgusting.

~~~
guskel
Same. I find it making appeals to the just-world fallacy, not understanding
that some people really do experience extended hardship without deserving it.

~~~
s-shellfish
I don't speak for anyone besides myself when it comes to mental illness, but
I've come to a point in my life where I'm just like 'Jesus fucking Christ can
this shit please be just over with - can I please just be happy with the life
I have left and not live my entire life being miserable over what used to
exist or what terrible things may happen?'

Because when you dwell on suicide often enough, when you attempt suicide
multiple times, when you get to that attempt where you are really sure, 'this
is it - I actually have to say goodbye' eventually you realize 'I'm going to
die one day. I'm convinced that day is today. Is this all the life I get? Was
that it?'

And hopefully for others who go through something similar, and luckily in my
case, I didn't die. Because even if I'm stuck in my head and think 'it really
would be better if I was just dead', I don't want my whole life to be a
combination of empty and shallow happiness I only realize I had, once it's
gone entirely.

Hardship sucks for all of us. But the point is, don't focus on it when things
are good. Life flies the fuck by otherwise, and what kind of an experience is
that? Only happy when reminiscing, always sad when you actually have
happiness, because you knew so well, that happiness is fleeting, and
everything good in life must end eventually?

Mental illness is no joke to overcome, life is full of turmoil, sadness, pain,
misery.

But I'm sure this will come across as callous and cruel to those still
suffering with it, just as I felt when my family kept telling me to 'get over
it' or how it's weakness or whatever the fuck people say to others to prove
they are fed up with being miserable. It comes out fucked up, from anyone.
People who go through it and come out the other side sound unsympathetic, but
that's often because they are still suffering, but they want to feel like they
have a choice. Not just a label they feel permanently stuck with until they
die. What kind of a life is that to look forward to? Same patterns, same
habits, same sickness. Same guilt and fear of proving the contrary - how will
others take my triumph over misery? Will that make them feel defeated?

People with enormous amounts of sadness often have enormous amounts of
empathy, and letting go of their sadness can seem like letting go of their
empathy. So they cling to it. But it's something everyone with that kind of
heart, I suppose, can choose to go through, or not, I don't know. I know
myself. I know I'm sick of being miserable. I know talking about every sad and
miserable thing I've ever been through only makes me more miserable. I know it
affects others around me. I know it's a cycle one can be afraid of - how do I
affect others when I feel so much pain? How can I be allowed to have my own
feelings and get through them, without watching them dissipate across everyone
around me?

I don't know if I'm better, I don't know if I'm worse. It's a curse, and a
burden. But I know wholeheartedly, if I keep all of it in, it's going to kill
me. And if I don't try to 'get over it' (again, the words can seem callous,
but take this to mean whatever it should for the individual), in whatever way
I can, it's going to hurt me and hurt everyone I try to connect with and love.

So sometimes I have to fucking laugh at it. Because, isn't that so fucked up?
That I get what it does, and I can't do shit about it?

I'm sure that's how this author feels.

~~~
memling
C. S. Lewis defined Joy as a desire-perhaps, if not probsbly unfulfilled-that
is itself more desirable than any other satisfaction.

YMMV, but I think this is an accurate and essential insight. Maybe it's
pertinent to your story, maybe not. At the same time, I suspect much of our
internal suffering hinges on the fact.

------
agumonkey
n+1) accuse every blog articles of plagiarism

------
elipsey
PULIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: author trolls the mentally ill in standard way,
says they're doing it for attention.

If you have serious psych diagnosis like BP etc., please avoid this content;
your loved ones know you're trying and only a handfull of contrarians strike
this pose. Get some exercise and a good night's sleep, and stay on your meds.
I'm rooting for you.

P.S. This trash should not be on HN. It has nothing to do with tech and it
could kill somebody.

~~~
RickS
First, I agree with most of your argument. In persons for whom these traits
arise from mental illness, this particular brand of sarcastic blaming of the
holder of emotions is likely counterproductive.

With that said, if the overwhelming majority of readers were miserable not via
irreparable mental illness, but from well-worn thought processes, and were
capable of growth stemming from realizations about their behavior, might this
be a productive exercise for more people than not?

While I agree that the format is not maximally nurturing, that's not the same
thing as being devoid of value. To call it trash, and to imply that it exists
primarily to troll the mentally ill, are arguments made in bad faith IMO.

~~~
Felz
This is a bravery debate, in other words.

[http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/06/09/all-debates-are-
bravery...](http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/06/09/all-debates-are-bravery-
debates/)

There are probably people who really need to hear "your problems are real and
you should get help" and also those who need to hear "your problems are mainly
self inflicted and you need to deal". This article gives the same advice for
both types, and that's pretty dangerous.

~~~
RickS
That was a hugely useful read, thank you! It fits perfectly.

A former coworker of mine recently recommended The Subtle Art of Not Giving A
Fuck. She said she read it in my voice. I couldn't stand it, and I couldn't
figure out the source of the dissonance. She needed the thing I do. I need the
thing she does (give more fucks). We can't read and grow from the same books.

Really useful mental model here. I'd be interested in anything else you'd
suggest as a good read.

~~~
Felz
I wish I could be more help for good reads. Unfortunately, I tend not to write
them down, and the best stuff only sinks in later.

SSC is usually fairly interesting for stuff like though, which is why I can
remember to link it. For example, later post on the same topic:

[http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/03/24/should-you-reverse-
any-...](http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/03/24/should-you-reverse-any-advice-
you-hear/)

------
adultSwim
Alternet <3

------
zpallin
This is the modern "Modest Proposal".

------
aidaman
Can confirm.

------
yousuretalkalot
Gaahguhgh. (Yes that's a sound.) As I'm going down the list I'm just "haha
right!... fools... wait...

...fuck."

My feelz just got domerocked. A few of these (and by a few I mean at least
half) I can easily say I've either done before - in one way or another - or I
still engage in regularly. And obviously, I'm miserable! And good god. I have
been really blind lately... The habit about therapy: "...and if there's still
that one person who loves you so much that they're clinging to some hope of a
counselor helping you..." ah jeeeez, Last night the love of my life and father
of my child said I'm pushing him away, that I push everyone away; and last
week while I was crying to my mother about how stressed I was over my finals,
my mom mentioned finding a therapist for me to talk to. I felt immediately
resistant, and it upset me and I was probably rude to her... as far as my
dude, I asked him how I push people away, saying "I want to know what it is
that I do so that I can stop doing it," and he says "well you freak out all
the time," and WHAM! here comes the emotion. "What do you mean freak out?
Because I have panic attacks? Because I don't know how to handle my emotions?!
Well maybe if people loved me more I wouldn't feel so anxious!" \- the worst
part is I really believe myself sometimes. Holy fuck I don't want to be this
person.

I've been an active blogger before and written about my "depression," my
"anxiety" \- I've been going through these weird emotional spats since I was
maybe 4 or 5, and I guess I just never got over them? (side note: this is
where the maternal blame comes in) - and I would say a lot of the things that
are sounding so ridiculous in this moment. "My mom wasn't good to her kids, my
mom's mom wasn't good to hers - it's just in my blood. Therefore it's my
mothers fault that I'm an alcoholic." WTF? Seriously. What the fuck is wrong
with me? People have mentioned at various times throughout my life that I'm
addicted to sadness. And I thought, yeah it's true, in an "I'm an artist
living in Seattle, I play acoustic guitar, only wear black, and hate it when
movies have happy endings" kinda way. I could identify with that hipster-like
and almost-endearing cliche, if we're going that far... I digress.. The
fucking point is that I have never genuinely realized that I am a shithead,
living my life and trying to do something with it but "somehow everything
seems to not work out," and "why does this keep happening to me?" Hooo. Lee.
FUCK! I've been playing the victim, making unnecessary accusations, then
causing a scene when the accused (understandably) wants to get the fuck away
from me, and then falling into holes of rage sorrow self-hatred and whatever
the fuck else that basically equals MISERY. And I've been telling myself, and
anyone else who will listen to me, that I can't help it. And goddamnit I
believed it when I said it.

Fucking thank god I read this right now. I really need to turn some shit
around. And I know I can. I'm a recovering alcoholic - I've been a shithead
for as long as I can remember - so I've spent a lot of time, too much time,
talking about self-improvement. And I've made progress before; I've been
happy. But this regression I've slipped into has gotten way outta control, and
I am actually grateful for the first time in a while that I randomly clicked
on this thread. Alright I'm gonna stop now. I bookmarked the article and I'm
making a commitment to myself right now to think about this when my emotions
start to run wild. I'm changing my attitude right now, and I am gonna go kiss
that wonderful man on the head... the one who I've been treating like shit and
pushing away for months ...and start to act in love again.

Maybe I'll report back later.

------
bthrm
This is super good, thank you very much for having shared it.

