
Why Are American Houses So Big? - prostoalex
https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/09/american-houses-big/597811/
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esotericn
Isn't the reasonable question more - why aren't all houses big?

I don't want a big house because I don't want to have to decorate a bunch of
big rooms and don't have a family to house - but I would quite like a decent
amount of land, both for the setback and for gardening, forestry, etc.

For the most part, the downsides to having a large home are primarily
financial, secondary effects are environmental (we can probably fix the
transport issues, but sprawl actually affects ecosystems).

I mean, if you can afford a big old mansion in Central London you buy it and
live in it. It seems to me that all the article is saying is that America is a
wealthy country.

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notus
Taking care of a large home is a lot of work. Unless someone is a stay at home
person you're pretty much guaranteed to need a maid every once in a while.

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RobertRoberts
Why a maid? I have a few relatives with very large homes. (one has a pool and
tennis court) and none of them have maids.

But also, I've had relatives that were maids, and the places they cleaned
weren't always large. More often the owners were just busy people.

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conductr
That’s me, I’ll make my self busy doing anything if it justifies the maid. I
just don’t enjoy that type of work, I loath it quite a bit

~~~
souprock
What about your privacy and security? That maid is essentially a stranger,
wandering around in your house, with a perfect excuse to be poking into
everything.

~~~
conductr
Same lady for 10+ years. I wouldn’t use a service that sends a different
person every week. She’s basically family. There is some small effort to keep
jewels locked up, my paper work is in safety deposit box. But she does see
what’s in our nightstand and our dirty undies. It’s not a big deal, she’s a
professional and has discretion. Sounds elitist af but she doesn’t exactly run
in the same social circles as her clients so it’s not like she’s out there
gossiping about our home life details.

Edit; word of mouth is key. While we have a long term person now, we’ve had
some ups and downs in the past. Get people’s recommendations before you hire
someone. Two reasons; you’ll know they’re good maids (a lot are not good),
also most of their clients have come from word of mouth so if they really
screw up/steal their business basically evaporates as word spreads. Likewise
if you help them with referrals, they will treat you very well (eg our lady
will come over after a dinner party, gathering, etc). You also have to “train”
them. Even if they’re good, you have some quirks and preferences they would
never guess

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rayiner
American house are big because we are rich and lightly taxed. It’s striking to
me that the whole article goes without mentioning the wealth difference
between Americans and most Europeans. The gap in household disposable income
between the US and France is comparable to the gap between France and Latvia
or Chile: [https://financialobserver.eu/wp-
content/uploads/sites/2/2017...](https://financialobserver.eu/wp-
content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Polands-good-year-in-OECD.jpg).

~~~
joshuaheard
I wouldn't say, "lightly taxed". I pay over 50% of my annual income in
federal, state, and sales tax. I also pay between 1% - 4% of the value of my
real estate every year in property taxes, depending on the jurisdiction. Then
there are the fees ($1,000 annual vehicle registration fees, for example).

~~~
rayiner
That’s lightly taxed compared to say France, where the 41% marginal rate kicks
in around $80,000 and the VAT is 20%.

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Tade0
As a contractor in Poland I pay 19% income tax + about €320 fixed pension fund
and health insurance, which are both partly tax-deductible.

There's of course VAT, but Americans have sales tax, which is lower, but
significant.

All in all taking into account average VAT paid per month my tax rate is 32%.

 _This_ is lightly taxed.

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scottlocklin
Why do you need such a big house, citizen? You can live in a drainage pipe;
why do you need more room than this?

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt0VMT3t-Po](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt0VMT3t-Po)

Someone should start a magazine for bugmen. It can feature apple products,
human habitations barely above tent level and delicious meals made with fried
crickets.

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wahern
I remember seeing towers of tubular pods reported on television as being just
around the corner in the late 1980s or early 1990s. Perhaps Beyond 2000? In
retrospect it was a fascinating idea for the shock value, and clearly intended
(by journalists) to elicit your type of response.

As an adult I now understand that America has always had pods--they're called
hotel rooms, and countless families live in low-budget hotels across the
country, both urban and rural. A single-wide trailer is just an elongated pod.
(I lived in both as a kid.)

I think what Americans really object to isn't the pod, per se, but the fact
that they're intended to be densely packed in urban environments. Put that
same pod in an idyllic, rural setting and all of a sudden it evokes
independence and frugality.

~~~
esotericn
> I think what Americans really object to isn't the pod, per se, but the fact
> that they're intended to be densely packed in urban environments. Put that
> same pod in an idyllic, rural setting and all of a sudden it evoke
> independence and frugality.

This is definitely in line with my thinking (though I'm not American).

I currently live in a small home, approx 40-50sqm. But it's detached, has a
bit of land (slightly less than I'd like, but enough to do stuff outside and
not feel like you're encroaching on the neighbours).

The problem with urban apartment living is that you're absolutely forced into
a ton of negotiations. How loud is too loud - whose wall is whose - who pays
for the structure - who owns the land - the list is almost endless. For me,
the mental overhead that's just always present is really draining.

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segmondy
I joke, but it's not really a joke.

American dream is not about owning a house, going to school and being more
successful.

American dream is about owning a bigger house than your neighbors, having
nicer cars than your friends, being visual successful. Most people who will
give you a threshold for their financial happiness will become unhappy if all
their neighbors exceed them.

Social signaling by wealth is very strong out here. It's true that you can now
see it in other parts of the world but it was exported by US to them

~~~
solotronics
This is almost definitely related to the strong consumer propoganda which has
been applied so consistently since WW2. If you think what I am saying is
ridiculous look at the history of who invented advertising. Edward Bernays was
the nephew of Freud and pioneered modern propoganda and advertising methods.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays)

"In the 1930s, his Dixie Cup campaign was designed to convince consumers that
only disposable cups were sanitary by linking the imagery of an overflowing
cup with subliminal images of vaginas and venereal disease."

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tempsy
I recall reading some recent stories on how Boomers are having trouble selling
their McMansions because Millennial buyers aren’t interested in big houses in
the suburbs.

Given the resurgence in urban living, lower birth rates, and higher debt
burden among millennials/Gen Z I would predict average home sizes will
shrink...

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conductr
My definition of McMansion is in the urban core. It’s where they tore down the
original bungalow or something old and small and erected a suburb sized house.
If it’s having trouble selling it’s because of money. Price of the home with
high land value or cost of the private schooling that many people with that
budget would require.

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tempsy
I’m pretty sure the term McMansion is linked to sprawling suburbs that popped
up starting in the late 80s/90s. Ive never heard it used to describe any urban
home.

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conductr
Looks like you’re right. I’ve never heard it used that way. But where I am
it’s just understood suburbs are built that way. Nobody calls it a McMansion.
We have largest houses in the nation though (I believe). The term came into
local use in urban areas (burbs of 50+ years ago) began getting massive houses
that consumed every bit of the lot.

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Causality1
There are advantages to room besides financial return and social standing. I
like having room for bookshelves, and a big desk, and a workshop. I like being
able to use power tools or blast music at any volume I want without disturbing
the neighbors. I respect your lifestyle choice if "driving 15 minutes to get a
gallon of milk" simply isn't convenient enough for you, but for me, bliss is
not having to know my neighbors.

~~~
esotericn
Spot on.

To me the "driving 15 minutes to get a gallon of milk" thing is absurd on the
face of it because it's missing that urban and rural life are fundamentally
different in a lot of ways.

If you live in the centre of a city, it's normal to live a sort of 'just-in-
time' lifestyle whereby you just pop to the shops whenever to grab an
ingredient, perhaps wander to a cafe for lunch, etc.

In the country it's far more DIY. You have a big freezer / fridge and food
stocks and just sort it out. If you want to cut up some wood, build a cabinet,
whatever, you don't go to the community space or whatever, you do it on the
land.

And if you do go to the store - well you think about what you actually need to
buy. The idea that people are burning a gallon of fuel solely to grab milk is
absurd, more likely they just do without it until the next time they're in
town, or prepare in advance.

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analog31
I'd like to see stats confirming that rural folks are that efficient with
their lifestyles and vehicle / fuel use. One thing to consider is that most
rural folks still work regular jobs, and commute to those jobs every day. At
my workplace at the edge of town, the main difference between the city and
rural folks is how many hours are spent commuting every week.

~~~
esotericn
Sure, so in that case you pick something up on the way to/from work.

I'm not arguing that rural lifestyles have lower transport requirements in
their totality - they obviously don't - just that the '15 mins to get X'
example is absurd, because it describes a strawman journey that very rarely
actually occurs.

Even in my youth living in the suburbs of a small town in the UK you rarely
went "in to town" to buy one thing because it's just not worth it.

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jandrewrogers
I think this is a distinctive cultural affectation. In America, there is a
strong historical context that a man's home is his castle, from the earliest
history of the country, and in that sense every man can be lord of a small
fiefdom. This isn't just theoretical, the rights attached to property
ownership are extensive in America, and in some regions asymptotically
approaches a practical approximation of sovereignty. In this context, bigger
is generally better.

Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but my experience is that Americans view
property as "personal sovereignty" to a much greater degree than people in
other parts of the world, who view it more as an investment or generational
asset. In the US, it comes with the implication of freedom to do your own
thing without state interference. (In some parts of the US, this is _de facto_
literal.)

That said, I prefer to live in a relatively small place in the middle of a
real city. I don't know how to fill a large house in a way that can be
rationalized, though I have owned such houses.

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JMTQp8lwXL
Because of regulations increasing the costs to being building in anti-growth
areas, the only thing builders can profitably produce is luxury housing. Many
astute observers will point out that cost per square foot hasn't changed much
in the past few decades, though the number of square feet has. However, it
doesn't seem to align with what many Americans actually want, which is
affordable housing.

Those looking to unload their McMansions in the coming years should be
forewarned they may not be demand for them: they're often located far from
jobs, offer too much space versus the shrinking family size, and demand
enormous upkeep. To an extent, remote work might make the first factor more
palatable, but the latter two remain problematic.

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fma
IMHO 15 minute for milk is a quite an exaggeration. I live in the burbs and
there's shopping plazas within 5 minute drive of the entrance of any
neighborhood. Plazas are anchored by a major grocery store and other
supporting stores (restaurants, services, urgent care) surround it.

I'd agree with the long commute. I'd move closer to work, but I can all but
guarantee in a few years I'd find a new job - and I'm not going to move every
time I find a new job.

As far as big houses...land is cheap where I'm at (Atlanta suburbs)...so why
not? Ranch style homes are expensive by the square foot. It's easy for a
developer to add a 2nd story and double your square footage without charging
much more for the house. Around here you can dig deeper and get yourself an
unfinished daylight basement for ~$40k more. So you can go from essentially a
1 story style ranch home, triple your square footage (basement, main + 2nd
floor) for not even double the price for a 1 story home.

Just to give some numbers for my neighborhood w/ the Zillow Estimated price.
Neighborhood is 4 years old My neighbor's 1 story ranch: 2400 square feet
$322k, My 2 story house: 3400 square feet, $404k House w/ Finished Basement:
4310 Square feet, $513k

My house and the house w/ basement have a 2 story foyers and living room. So
basically, we have so much space that the 2nd floor doesn't need to be fully
utilized because we like to stare into 30 feet high ceilings.

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bkjelden
The actual building materials used to build a house - the lumber, drywall,
shingles, etc - are really cheap relative to the cost of upgrading the
finishes within the house, as well as the cost of acquiring the land and
permits necessary to build (at least in most high demand areas).

And of course with the advent of things like power tools and supply chains
that can cheaply delivery (relatively) uniform building materials, the actual
process of physically constructing the house is easier than ever.

So, if you're in the business of building homes, one of the most cost
effective ways to make the house seem more luxurious is simply to make it
bigger.

Also, big houses are not strictly a suburban phenomenon. If you've ever been
to a gentrified urban neighborhood it's not that uncommon to see a block where
they've torn down almost every 900 sq ft bungalow and replaced it with a 3500
sq ft 3 story box.

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RickJWagner
I work remotely, which I greatly enjoy. One day a while back I was talking to
a co-worker who resides in the UK. (I'm in the central US.)

We were talking about woodworking. I know my friend had just bought a new
table saw, I was wondering how things were going.

My friend complained that it took him a long time to setup his saw every time
he wanted to use it. It was contained in a small room with several other
tools, he had to pick which one to plug in and put in the 'free space'.

I explained I kept my table saw in it's own place, set up in the extra garage.
He was stunned that there could be such an extravagance.

I'm sure everybody would have a bigger house (and garage) if the situation
allowed it. It's nice. It's only human nature to like such a thing.

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Ididntdothis
Before people get defensive, this is just a bunch of personal observations,
not judgement.

I think Americans generally like everything bigger for some reason. When I
came to the US from Germany I noticed that everything was much bigger here.
Kitchen stoves, fridges, office chairs, food portion sizes, TV sets, beds,
candy bars, cars and so on. Not efficient, just big.

I knew a lot of well off people in Germany whose houses were much smaller than
what Americans of the same status would be living in.

Not sure why that is but it seems cultural to prefer big things. Maybe it got
started in the 50s when American cars were huge just for the sake of it.

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alanfranz
I'm from Italy, albeit not from a huge urban area... And I find the 1600sqft
number for houses not exactly large, maybe just "normal", if it includes a
cellar, an attic, and so on.

Hey, if you speak of standalone houses, that's probably the minimum size here!
If you want to go for a smaller size, you'd probably get a flat, or possibly a
semi-detached house.

And, personally, I think that a comfortable living with some private space for
everyone is hard to achieve in less than 120 square meters for, let's say, a
4-people household. Too much noise, too much clutter.

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falcolas
My parents house was big for one main reason - it was stupidly cheap to build
it. 10,000 sq ft on 5 acres of land for under $100k (adjusted to 2019).

My dad worked as a lineman for Ma Bell, and could afford to build it with no
mortgage. You can’t do that today.

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amriksohata
Because of a lot more habitable land and cheaper locally sourced building
materials. Not to mention no minimum wage for construction workers.

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lacampbell
Because America is a very wealthy country with a relatively low population
density.

