
Malaysia Airlines Says It Lost Contact With Plane Carrying Over 200 - r0h1n
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/03/08/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-says-plane-with-over-200-aboard-is-missing.html?referrer=
======
8ig8
> UPDATE [12:37]: Tuoi Tre, a leading daily in Vietnam, reports that the
> Vietnamese Navy has confirmed the plane crashed into the ocean. According to
> Navy Admiral Ngo Van Phat, Commander of the Region 5, military radar
> recorded that the plane crashed into the sea at a location 153 miles South
> of Phu Quoc island.

[http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraft-goes-missing--says-
air...](http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraft-goes-missing--says-
airline-023820132.html)

~~~
wavesounds
Does anyone know if there's a possibility for survivors? Could a highly
skilled pilot glide the plane to a _safe_ crash landing on the water given
ideal conditions for an engine failure (assuming thats what happened)? Or does
a crash landing over the ocean basically mean the worst? My thoughts and
prayers go out to those involved.

~~~
refurb
It's a very different scenario, I know, but when Ethiopian Airlines flight 961
crashed into the ocean because it ran out of fuel during a hijacking, 50 out
of a total of 163 people survived.

Of course that crashed happened close to shore and rescues started quite
quickly.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_961](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_961)

------
fname
EDIT: The Guardian has a pretty good live blog feed giving constant updates -
[http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/08/malaysian-
airli...](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/08/malaysian-airlines-
plane-live)

Very sad. Only the third crash of a 777 since being introduced in the 90s.

[1]Confirmed 14 nationalities amongst the passengers, including:

    
    
        China - 153 (including 1 infant)
        Malaysia - 38
        Indonesia - 12
        Australia -7
        USA - 4 (including 1 infant)
        France - 3
        Canada - 2
        New Zealand - 2
        Ukraine - 2
        Russian - 1
        Italy - 1
        Taiwan -1
        Austria - 1
        Netherlands - 1
    

[1]: [http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/dark-
site.html](http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/dark-site.html)

~~~
gregman
Looking at the update at 2.32pm AEST makes me sad. Two people mourning over
the loss of their relatives and everyone in the airport takes pictures of
them. Here is the image (although I'm just spreading it around more):
[http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-
images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/20...](http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-
images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/3/8/1394249180451/dd3ed19d-b8cc-4791-a540-22aecf15f089-460x276.jpeg)

~~~
baby
Taking pictures of suffering people is so inhuman, we rarely see this side
when we look at the news.

~~~
ekianjo
This is really disgusting indeed. But journalists also do that the whole time

------
jonah
FlightAware track of the flight:
[http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS370](http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS370)

EDIT: And track log:
[http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS370/history/20140307/1...](http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS370/history/20140307/1635Z/WMKK/ZBAA/tracklog)

~~~
einhverfr
The flightaware track for flights in the area doesn't tell much because
apparently ground radar is relatively limited, unfortunately.

------
meritt
Philip Wood, an IBM Technical Storage Executive, was one of 3 Americans on the
flight manifest.

[http://www.linkedin.com/pub/philip-
wood/3/a46/4a9](http://www.linkedin.com/pub/philip-wood/3/a46/4a9)

~~~
chaostheory
What bothers me aren't so much the adults on the flight. They've more or less
lived full lives, especially the ones from the US. What eats me is thinking
that there were two babies on that flight =(

~~~
mindcruzer
You realize that once you are dead it makes no difference how long you were
alive right? When you are dead there is no inherent regret that you didn't
live longer. Whether you were 67 or 3, you're still dead--the end result is
the same. No one life is more valuable than the next. Think about that before
you make any more short sighted comments.

~~~
chaostheory
> No one life is more valuable than the next.

I know you're speaking philosophically, but that's not true in every context
like a wrongful death lawsuit. The younger you are, the more your life is
worth. The higher your earnings bracket, the more your life is worth.

------
joering2
Without disrespecting victims (RIP), can someone briefly explain how and why
people die during plane crash? Is it lack of oxygen, or cold temperature or
actually a hard landing on the water surface? AFAIK most studies conclude
there is no good place on the plane to be safer than other, whether its front,
back, left side or right. Any ideas how to expand ones survival chances? Will
TSA let you in with parachute -- is it even worth carrying one??

~~~
balladeer
> parachute

That would mean an opening if there's an opening in the plane, while still
above the ground, the plane is done anyway.

I think it's the fire or suffocation (the plane is sealed) if it falls in the
water. I really don't know. Go over to reddit, there people there are better
chances of an answer.

------
amix
This is sad, but kind of strange with all the fear and media publicity of an
airplane crash. For example, 1.2million people lost their life in road traffic
in 2010 alone... We rarely read or fear about this fact.

~~~
caf
I'm sure we would read about a single road accident claiming a few hundred
lives as well.

~~~
amix
Each day about ~100.000 people lose their life in road accidents...

~~~
caf
That's actually wrong by an order of magnitude, but that's not the point. The
fact that individual road accidents claiming a few victims are so common is
exactly why it's _not_ news.

------
te_chris
Edit: the top reply made me realise what has probably happened. Awful :(

~~~
magic_haze
GPS just means the plane knows where it is. The equipment necessary for the
plane to inform the airline ops about its location is still vulnerable to all
sorts of problems, even with the kind of anal development practices required
by FAA and equivalent agencies. Airports usually have have radars that track
nearby airspace, but otherwise, I think most planes are tracked by the ADS-B
signals that they actively transmit (insecurely).

~~~
jfoster
Does that mean that they pretty much know where the plane is likely to be? I
recall from previous accidents that sometimes they can't find the plane very
quickly. I don't know much about this subject, but what stops them from
locating the plane within just a few hours?

~~~
lsh123
Over water or in other remote locations, there is no radar coverage thus there
is absolutely no information about the plane location except position reports
from the pilot. Airliners have "ping home" systems that regularly send various
info (including GPS location) back to the central company servers using
satellites. However, the reports frequency varies from 15 to 90+ minutes and
even 5 minutes is A LOT for a plane traveling at MACH 0.7. But even if the
position reports will be timely and accurate, during the descend (after a
catastrophic event onboard), the plane might travel tens of miles from the
last reported position. Then, ocean currents can move the pieces even further
from the last reported position (as it have happened with Air France plane
pieces).

Lastly, ADS-B is not a solution for over the ocean position reports - the
radio is not powerful enough to transmit data over the long distance (this is
why we need to build so many ground stations in the US to actually use it).
Not to mention, that ADS-B is not fully operational even in US.

~~~
yeukhon
I think they could look at satellites looking at that region at the time.
There are satellites just taking photos and they probably have captured
something.

~~~
objclxt
...there really aren't satellites 'just taking photos' of the ocean. You might
have a spy satellite taking pictures of a naval exercise. I think you are
underestimating a) how vastly big the ocean is, and b) satellite capacity
(most intelligence satellites are _over land_ ).

71% of the world is ocean. The ocean is vast, and most of it has very little
going on. Last month someone washed up having been lost at sea _for over a
year_ , having only seen two or three ships (which didn't stop). A few ships
_in 13 months_.

[http://www.cbsnews.com/news/jose-salvador-alvarenga-
healthy-...](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/jose-salvador-alvarenga-healthy-
after-lost-at-sea-ordeal-but-in-no-shape-to-explain-anything/)

------
BorisMelnik
3:30am update:

At Beijing airport authorities have provided buses for relatives to go to a
hotel about 15 kilometres away for further briefings. Associated Press
reported one woman on the bus was weeping while saying on a mobile phone,
“They want us to go to the hotel. It can’t be good!”

~~~
khc
That seems to be a very sensible thing to do though. Consider that there are
153 Chinese nationals, the number of relatives waiting at the airport is
probably at least couple hundreds. Since the event is ongoing and they have no
idea how long it will take to have new updates, moving them to a place where
they can be better accommodated while freeing up resources at the airport for
its normal duties is probably a good thing.

------
einhverfr
Malaysia Airlines has a reasonable safety record. The 777 has a very good
safety record. This specific plane apparently had damage to the wingtip from a
previous on-ground incident/collision. It's a big mystery.

------
lostlogin
After a few days of interesting aviation related stories here, this happens.

------
obituary_latte
It's not clear from the article: what happened to the flight?

~~~
Flammy
It isn't known or at least not yet announced. If it crashes into the ocean (or
somewhere remote) this isn't surprising. As for the cause, that will likely
take months for a comprehensive report.

~~~
obituary_latte
Yeah, it does seem to be the assumed case. Hope not. Thanks.

------
United857
Last transponder position of #MH370 was Lat: 6.90 Lon: 103.57

[http://pic.twitter.com/PVsNuYtbtS](http://pic.twitter.com/PVsNuYtbtS)

------
sidwyn
Looks like they just located it, and are sending emergency teams now:
[http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=vi&tl=en&js=n&prev=...](http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=vi&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fvnexpress.net%2Ftin-
tuc%2Fthe-gioi%2Fdo-duoc-tin-hieu-may-bay-malaysia-cach-mui-ca-mau-120-hai-
ly-2960870.html)

~~~
theboss
those reports were already confirmed false (insane, less than a minute later)

[http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/08/malaysian-
airli...](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/08/malaysian-airlines-
plane-live)

------
CoachRufus87
Why is black box data only stored locally, thus requiring investigators to
recover the box in order to figure out what happened?

~~~
objclxt
Because transmissions are unreliable. If you're over the ocean there is no
ground to send your transmission to. Black boxes store considerable amounts of
data - telemetrics, voice recordings for the past two hours...stuff that to be
useful you really have to stream.

So the only viable option for streaming that kind of data is over a satellite
link, except it should come as no surprise that when you _most need the data_
the uplink won't work (maybe something ripped the fuselage and damaged the
transmitter, power was lost, you no longer had line of site to the satellite
because the plane rolled, etc).

There's no benefit. You are going to be sending people out to the plane
anyway. If the plane is under the ocean you're going to investigate
regardless. Flight recorders are designed to last - the Air France 447
recorders were finally found two years later, 4000 meters under water. Data
links are unreliable, not there when you most need them, and not worth the
trouble.

~~~
Zancarius
> There's no benefit. You are going to be sending people out to the plane
> anyway.

This is a fantastic point. I can't think of many accidents that were resolved
by the FDR alone. The FDR tells a substantial part of the story, obviously
(flight control positions, instrumentation data, etc), but the _wreckage_
suggests where potential points of failure occurred. The importance of this
cannot be understated, and I'd highly recommend watching (albeit rather
dramatized) Crash of the Comet [1] and related videos for how important
wreckage and metallurgical analysis has been in resolving otherwise difficult
accidents.

To add to your comment, the FDR and CVR have demonstrated that they can
function up to the point of impact (with some exceptions, such as a few
accidents caused by severe in flight fires), which yields some very important
telemetry as to the attitude of the aircraft, state of the engines, etc.

So really, if it's not broke...

[1] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws-
GAiQKsBs](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws-GAiQKsBs)

------
Oculus
Can't begin to imagine how horrible it must be to be the one informing next of
kin of what just happened.

~~~
whbk
Or, you know, to be next of kin. :( The last time Twitter was taken over by a
Friday night flight was much more enjoyable, thoughts go out to all those
affected.

------
homakov
This is one of the scariest thing i read on the internet in a while... I feel
so sorry.

------
mukeshsharma
Well this is very bad news that plane lost its contact with control rum, and
its taking over 200 passengers. Hope for the best that they can contact soon
with them.

------
balls187
This is very sad. My thoughts with all those involved and those related. :(

------
balladeer
So, they made an announcement after 5 hours?

Lost contact: 2:40 AM

Announcement: 7:30 AM

~~~
callesgg
Well it could have been so that they just lost their radio due to malfunction.

And after 5 hours i imagine the fuel would be about out so after that one can
with a very high accuracy say that it was worse that just a radio glitch.

It would not look good to say that the plane crashed and then one hour or so
later it lands on some remote runway.

~~~
balladeer
But they could say after 30 minutes or 45 or hell, 60 minutes, "guys, we lost
contact with our plane and that happened sixty minutes ago".

------
bariswheel
This is very unfortunate, but why is it on Hacker News?

~~~
tomrod
Because a lot of hackers care.

------
joyofdata
Why is stuff like this on HN?

