
WhiteyPaint Turns Walls Into Whiteboards Without Cramping Your Wallpaper’s Style - jasonwilk
http://techcrunch.com/2011/11/04/whiteypaint-turns-walls-into-whiteboards-without-cramping-your-wallpapers-style/
======
ellyagg
I wanted to put up a whiteboard to cover the entire 8x16 foot wall of my
apartment living room. Ideally you'd use ceramic coated steal, but that's
extremely expensive and heavy, so you'd like a cheaper alternative. The
problem is that every other surface besides glass and ceramic seems to ghost,
without fail.

After researching every product and lead on the Internet I could find, my
brother and I tested all of the most promising options:

1\. Bare panelboard, the super cheap stuff you get at Home Depot.

2\. Panelboard coated in gloss enamel.

3\. Panelboard coated in some kind of sealer.

4\. Panelboard coated in Rustoleum whiteboard paint.

5\. Some disposable whiteboard squares.

6\. Many others I've forgotten, including applying the foregoing coatings in
different ways, e.g., painting, buffing, sanding after drying.

In the end, we found the most economical and ghosting free alternative by far
to be bare panelboard and Mr. Clean Magic Erasers. The erasers are magic
indeed: They effortlessly clear the board and leave no ghosting. At first I
was worried the panelboard would be damaged, but after significant use, we
couldn't detect any. Still, perhaps at some point the panelboard will wear
out; however at $12 for a 4x8 sheet, and with the ease of installation, it's
well worth it.

~~~
joshu
How do you attach them without damage? Glue/Caulk?

~~~
ellyagg
We screwed them to the studs with brass flat head screws. Since it took 4
showerboards to cover the wall, this created a plus-shaped set of seams that
made a cool riveted effect. However, we caulked the seams and painted over the
screws and seams with the whiteboard paint left over from the experiments. I
would have liked to attach them in a cleverer way, but I'm not very handy.

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MrDunham
Jason, your product seems like a fun idea, especially because it allows you to
use it over wallpaper (which, since untextured, is probably the best use-
case).

That said, please go read How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale
Carnegie. Lashing out on Tech Crunch at users will kill this crucial PR moment
for you and create a negative view of your product. There are many assholes on
the internet - respond 'I'm sorry, how can we improve?' and 99% they'll back
off realizing there's a real human on the other side.

Congrats again, I wish you well.

~~~
jasonwilk
MrDunham, I appreciate the advice. While 3 years ago I wouldn't backlash at TC
users, I feel like times have changed.

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tptacek
Cost aside, issues people have had with whiteboard paint:

* Cleans poorly, degrades over time, makes walls look messy

* Writes poorly (your wall is textured, a real whiteboard is flat)

* Smelly

We use roll-around whiteboards; we have an open office, though.

~~~
jasonwilk
Thanks for the comment Thomas. We created WhiteyPaint to address all of these
issues. I suggest you try it and if you hate, we will refund you.

~~~
tptacek
Tell you what: I will place an order today if you tell me:

* What Whiteypaint does to look decent on slightly textured painted walls (I haven't used other whiteboard paint, but I've used stick-on whiteboard sheets and had the same problem: bumpy wall, whiteboard marker, ugly drawing).

* Why Whiteypaint is especially easy to clean.

* How I'd go about un-Whiteypainting the wall if I was dissatisfied with it.

(I'm not going to argue with anything of your answers, if they're answers. I'm
seriously interested. I know exactly what wall I'd put it on.)

The cost of a bucket of expensive paint is a rounding error to me, and, to be
honest, so is the cost of having someone clean up a wall, but the wall cleanup
also comes with a lot of logistical headaches for me.

~~~
jasonwilk
1\. It is paint, so it will go over the texture. You shouldn't have to worry
about bumps showing through as long as you paint it on right.

2\. It's easier to clean because of how we made it. I really can't say much
beyond that it just works, where others do not.

3\. The good part about whiteypaint is if you do hate it, the wall is still
the same color. nothing has changed other than it will be a little shinier.

Hope that helps.

~~~
timtadh
This was your moment. These are the biggest questions any potential buyer will
have. You leave me unconvinced you have solutions to any of the questions
Thomas outlined.

1\. ? Clarify "paint it on right."

2\. "We made it this way. Trust us." I am not asking for the chemical formula,
but seriously more evidence is required here. How do we know it works? Why
does it work better? What are you doing that they are not?

3\. How does another coat of paint interact with your "whitey paint" which I
can only assume is some smooth polymer. Will other paints stick correctly to
it? etc. People don't want "shinier" they want their wall back.

~~~
tptacek
It's still his moment! I clarified my question a little. I really want to be
convinced to buy.

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rlander
A simple and cheap solution: glass over white paint.

Here's our old office's "whiteboard": <http://imgur.com/4Ki7S>

It also looks awesome.

~~~
wyclif
I like that idea, but what if you want a very large wall-sized pane? That
would involve cutting and moving a huge piece of glass.

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m0nastic
This looks neat (although I agree the name is problematic).

I've always tried to be a whiteboard person, but other than the occasional
network diagram, I never seem to be able to incorporate it into my workflow (I
have the same disappointing history with task managers, PDA's, and calendars).

 _edit_ : The one useful whiteboard I ever had was one for my shower (you
wrote on it with waterproof crayon), although almost every woman who used my
shower would end up drawing breasts on it.

I'm planning out my home office for a pending move, and keep flirting with the
idea of getting a chalkboard, but the thought of chalk dust everywhere isn't
appealing.

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ecaron
The stuff we used on our walls at LinkUp.com is less than a $1/sqft and I can
use permanent markers on it:
[http://www.solutionsmb.com/010~Graffiti_Solutions/035~MB4500...](http://www.solutionsmb.com/010~Graffiti_Solutions/035~MB4500G_Water_based_anti/)

It is made by a little company out of Canada that doesn't know marketing but
sure knows chemistry.

I even uploaded a pic showing it over some of our wall art:
<https://plus.google.com/103755913372126150486/posts>

~~~
jasonwilk
SolutionsMB paint cannot erase the product without using spray. I've used it.

~~~
ecaron
I could post a youtube of it working wonderfully if you'd like. It is much
like your product - it works great when applied right. I bet you just didn't
apply it right...

Btw, can you reduce your thread trolling by 40%? You made it on TC, well done.
Now let us talk about it without your constant marketing responses.

~~~
SoftwareMaven
I disagree. I appreciate his comments as a subject matter expert. Of course, I
take them with a pound of salt, but it gives me things to think about.

Fwiw, I don't think he's gone overboard on the marketing, either.

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SoftwareMaven
I am in the process of finishing my daughter's room in the basement. She is an
artist. I would love to give her walls to color on, but when the cost of the
paint is as much or more than the rest of the room combined, it aes it hard.

I've thought about aconite, but then I'm left with seems all over the room
(but I don't have to mud and sand ;). There has to be a better way.

~~~
jasonwilk
You should get in touch with us. Since it's for your daughter's room, we can
hopefully help you out.

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JoshTriplett
Nice product. Awful name.

~~~
jasonwilk
It's memorable is all I can say from experience with this product for the last
couple of years. This isn't a product that someone is exactly searching for,
so we've seen a high correlation to any name (good or bad) that is memorable
to continued word of mouth sales / direct traffic.

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lrfunk
Why would I want to use this instead of tileboard? Tileboard is less than $1 a
square foot at Lowes. It provides a very smooth surface even on a textured
wall, and is easy to install (no painting, just cut, hang, done).

~~~
jasonwilk
1 word. Erasability.

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wyclif
Glass whiteboard: <http://www.glasswhiteboard.com/>

Expensive, but an alternative is to have the glass cut and mount it to the
wall yourself.

[http://www.glasswhiteboard.com/media/6173/glass-
whiteboard-b...](http://www.glasswhiteboard.com/media/6173/glass-whiteboard-
brochure.pdf)

~~~
lutorm
At our old apartment, we just got a piece of scrap glass for a pittance at the
local glass shop. Glass is awesome, it _never_ wears out and is always easy to
erase.

In a pinch, you can always write on the windows, though you can't read it if
it's dark outside. ;-)

~~~
wyclif
It looks like the Glass Whiteboard people at the link above coat the back of
their glass with white material. But what you are saying appeals more to me
because I'm on a budget, and you can just mount the glass to a wall that's
been painted white.

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greiskul
Wow, this is a very clever idea. In a couple of months I will be starting my
own company, too bad that I think I won't find anything similar to your
product in Brazil for at least a couple of years.

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bomatson
I'm into it, will most likely pick some of this up if they do some
bootstrapper's pricing

~~~
jasonwilk
Bobby, this is our first run so pricing is expensive. This stuff us not easy
to make and we've already tried to be the lowest price in the market.
Nonetheless, we will work on a cheaper price for bootstrappers since that's
exactly what we are.

~~~
bomatson
right on, great product btw! Would love to see it at an event or in a co-
working space

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pinaceae
what about the atmosphere in the room? I guess the paint blocks off moisture
and air transport, so if you paint all your walls you'll have nice
condensation effects on it. like wrapping yourself in plastic.

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slashcom
Sweet idea, sweet product it seems. But that ad did not feel tasteful.

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pg_bot
Jason, how well does your product work in tandem with magnetic paint?

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pitdesi
Cheaper than Ideapaint... Anyone have first hand experience using both?

$/Sqft comparison

Whiteyboard - $75 for 30sqft - $2.5/sqft -<http://www.whiteyboard.com/>

Ideapaint - $175 for a 50 sqft area - $3.5/sqft...
[http://www.amazon.com/IdeaPaint-Sq-Ft-Kit-
Whiteboard/dp/B002...](http://www.amazon.com/IdeaPaint-Sq-Ft-Kit-
Whiteboard/dp/B002OJ7EAE)

Tileboard (often makes sense for a bootstrappers whiteboard) - $10 for 10 sqft
- $1/sqft -
[http://www.lowes.com/pd_61082-46498-31023248_0__?productId=3...](http://www.lowes.com/pd_61082-46498-31023248_0__?productId=3042205&Ntt=tileboard&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dtileboard&facetInfo=)

While these are all cool, we decided to hell with all of these things and that
it was worth it to spend $400 on a kickass whiteboard that flips and does
tricks and ended up with this [http://www.amazon.com/Quick-Ship-Deluxe-
Reversible-Markerboa...](http://www.amazon.com/Quick-Ship-Deluxe-Reversible-
Markerboard/dp/B001GIAY7E) (paid ~$400 for it). It is awesome - rolls around
and flips and we can take it with us to our new office, which is important.

Does anyone know why whiteboards are so damn expensive?

Congrats to whiteyboard, I think it's an awesome problem to tackle!

~~~
tzs
Note that Rust-Oleum also has dry erase paint, available from Home Depot,
Amazon, and other such places, that is also much cheaper than Ideapaint. (Also
available, bafflingly, from Barnes & Noble:
[http://www.barnesandnoble.com/p/rust-oleum-dry-erase-
paint-g...](http://www.barnesandnoble.com/p/rust-oleum-dry-erase-paint-gloss-
white/22255338)). Prices vary a lot, but it looks comparable or even a little
cheaper than the Whiteyboard paint (but note that it is white, not clear)).

My guess is that Ideapaint is so expensive because most people have no idea
dry erase paint exists. They stumble across Ideapaint while searching for
whiteboards. It is such an obviously good idea, there is a tendency to assume
it is very rare or else you would have heard of it before. Since it is a good
deal compared to whiteboards from the regular office supply stores (even the
"low use" whiteboards from those stores), it puts the customer in the mindset
of thinking they have found a great bargain, and they don't go looking for an
even better bargain.

~~~
jasonwilk
Rust-Oleum used to be sold in-stores at HomeDepot. They pulled it from the
shelves because it was defective (fact). They now sell it online but at a
discount to get rid of the rest of the product. Beware of that solution.

As for IdeaPaint, I agree. They priced themselves high because they were the
first mover. Little do peoplele know that they have been around for 9 years
and have changed their name multiple times after different iterations.

WhiteyPaint studied everything and our solution is the result of that. We
actually have a nice comparisson chart of this page of ourselves vs IdeaPaint
here: <http://www.whiteyboard.com/order-now-whiteboard/paint.html>

Thanks HN for checking us out.

~~~
kitchenguy
I think ideapaint is priced higher due to the crazy good gaurantee (10 years
and lifetime), greengaurd certification and the one coat application. that
being said, I would get away with a cheaper costed whiteboard if it would be a
temporary surface that I wouldnt use for years...

also, I took a look at the comparison chart on the site and did some research.
while whiteyboard is cheaper, how can you prove that it has better technology?
I called and asked about ideapaints outdoor applications and they have applied
it outdoors and said it performed well.also, any dry erase marker is
recommended for ideapaint. they also showed me a test with a sharpie that was
removed quite easily. as for free cleaner, ideapaint recommends a damp
microfibre cloth for cleaning, no cleaner needed. just a few things i
uncovered after making a few calls.

in one of the videos on the site the girl said that whiteypaint was the first
clear whiteboard paint on the market...there is actually a company in canada
that is called solutionsmb that made the first clear dry erase paint...as for
ideapaint being around for 9 years, it has only been available to market since
2008 with a "perfected" product. i havent been able to find any info on any
other names they are under.please post any info that you find on this.

sorry for the long post, i overdue my research when looking into new
products...

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infocaptor
A more cheaper solution and this is what I use.

Visit your homedepot

Grab the White Bathroom board and ask the homedepot guy to cut in three equal
pieces

The sheet is 8 ft by 4 ft, that gives you 32sqft for just $13.

For just $13 I have two in my office and third piece in my kid's room

~~~
jasonwilk
That doesn't work well. I've seen it in action a hundred time and there is
ghosting everywhere. If you have a little extra money to spend, go for a real
solution.

