
It’s a Great Age for Jazz, but Don’t Call It Golden - daegloe
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/25/opinion/jazz-golden-age-esperanza-spalding-kamasi-washington.html
======
mrleiter
As it is always the case, determining when something is a paradigm shift or
something truly great cannot be told instantly. It takes time. As a
jazzdrummer myself (professional training and self-taught), I like what
bevinahally said: that Jazz is not Mozart and Beethoven, and it doesn't have
to be reproduced perfectly. Jazz is alive and sparkling. Especially London is
a growing scene.

In my view, this time will be viewed as a paradigm shift, because you can see
a lot of young and really talented players mixing up what is known as jazz
with influences from techno and hip-hop (huh, what a fun twist). Yes, if you
are looking for jazz as you are taught in school (say Coltrane), that still
exists, but it's to me boring. Has been done.

I want to give you some examples to listen to, and you will hear what I mean.
The drums use ghost notes quite heavily, 7th chords are turned into 11th and
13th chords, there are less changes in tonality. Rhythm is more straight,
tighter. It get's you going!

Yussef Kamaal - Calligraphy
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g826StJhLk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g826StJhLk))

Yussef Dayes X Alfa Mist - Love Is The Message
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwVtIPeYIeQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwVtIPeYIeQ))

Nihilism Live @jazzrefreshed
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTlZEv9V35o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTlZEv9V35o))

Ezra Collective - Enter The Jungle
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGkZM6wjIwk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGkZM6wjIwk))

Richard Spaven - The Self feat. Jordan Rakei
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YattHO96UzI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YattHO96UzI))

Enjoy :) jazz is for everyone

~~~
zwegner
Thanks for these recommendations. I already really like Yussef Kamaal, and
from a short sampling these other artists will definitely make it into my
rotation.

I feel I should also point out that Coltrane went much further than the sort
of jazz that would be considered "academic" in his later years, as he got
freer and more avant-garde. I particularly like the last year or so of his
classic quartet (1965), as they stretched musical forms into very intense,
dissonant directions, while still maintaining a masterful group cohesion. Take
this performance[1] of My Favorite Things, for example, and compare it to the
version released four years before--it's worlds apart.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWYWgda5f0I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWYWgda5f0I)

~~~
mrleiter
You are very welcome. Thanks for your excellent recommendations down below!

You are correct! Thanks for that version. John Coltrane was extravagant in
this regard, just like Miles Davis, Charlie Parker or Art Blakey. You can
really tell whether you are listening to an early or late Davis/Bird/Blakey.
Ornette Coleman was also a genius in switching and developing different styles
[1][2].

Also, I really find the experimental music of JoJo Mayer & Nerve intriguing.
Just heard him live few weeks back, and it was truly an amazing experience.
Their newest album is the most "harmonic" and more easily accessible. It's a
wonderful take on classic jazz by extremely good musicians. [3] Their other
works are also great, but may be a bit difficult to listen.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNbD1JIH344](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNbD1JIH344)
(1959)

[2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEikZrO2Cus](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEikZrO2Cus)
(1982)

[3] [https://nerve.bandcamp.com/album/after-the-
flare](https://nerve.bandcamp.com/album/after-the-flare)

------
stevenkovar
Without commenting on the current state of jazz, I'll contribute several of my
favorite modern artists:

The loud-and-completely-aware-of-that-fact Soil & "Pimp" Sessions from Japan.
The name makes no sense, but that's half the image.

\- AIE:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWHP_mGPlJk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWHP_mGPlJk)

\- Summer Goddess:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQMgXPFzdg8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQMgXPFzdg8)

Christian Scott aTunde Adjuah, with more of a soulful and at some times
political approach.

\- Twin:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktU_X7CDaBM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktU_X7CDaBM)

\- Live session:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OslN5mxWZi8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OslN5mxWZi8)

------
21
Related, from another article I've read recently:

> _Jazz clubs didn’t have “no talking” rules back when jazz was a black
> popular music. (Charles Mingus and Nina Simone complained bitterly and often
> about people talking during their sets.) The sacralization /classicalization
> of jazz only dates back to the 1980s, when, for better or for worse, it
> became an academic music. On the one hand, it’s nice to go to a jazz concert
> and be able to hear everything. On the other hand, the music is not exactly
> the dynamic creative force it was back when it was being played while people
> smoked, drank and danced._

~~~
scrooched_moose
I'd be curious to see that article and what "clubs" the author is going to.
I've been to plenty of clubs in multiple cities where it's still exactly like
that. You talk, eat, and drink while the music plays in the background.

The only "no talking" Jazz events I've been to are true concerts with
generally hefty ticket prices.

~~~
techopoly
I would argue that jazz is largely viewed as background music now. People go
to a jazz club to...talk. If they wanted to listen to the music they'd go to a
rock concert.

Edit: Another thought, maybe a large segment of modern jazz is uninspired
renditions of the old greats, and maybe that's why people don't give it much
credence? I don't go to a lot of jazz clubs, so I can't really say. Perhaps
more people would listen to modern jazz if it was so groundbreaking it knocked
them off their feet...unfortunately that honor seems to go to rock, hip-hop,
electronica, and such these days.

------
viburnum
In its time jazz was full of harmonic and rhythmic innovations. People played
chords and melodies "wrong" and it felt dangerous and exciting. Jazz was
always about pushing boundaries, but once you got to free jazz in the 1960s
there was nowhere left to go, and the only thing left was to turn it into
classical music.

All that energy is has been in hip hop for decades now. Oh yeah, and people
want to dance too.

~~~
stochastic_monk
Jazz’s fate mirrors blues in that it’s reached its mature state and now
symbiotic relationships with other genres are where innovation happens. David
Bowie’s Blackstar, Dillinger Escape Plan’s Jazz-infused math rock hardcore,
and Norwegian Shining’s Avant-garde Blackjazz sui generis would be prime
examples of this kind of achievement.

------
aphextron
I have a real problem with modern jazz. It's always trying to be something
that it really isn't. It's just these people who grew up listening to the
greats from the 20th century and imitating that sound. There's zero invention
to it. Anything since the 70s and rise of smooth jazz is just rehashed mockery
of a thing that once was. "Jazz" was something that happened at a specific
time and place, with a specific group of people, and then it was over. It's
not some transcendental overarching genre in itself to be explored. I'm far
more interested now in hearing whatever some weird new electronic artist is
coming up with than listening to someone perform Giant Steps note-for-note, or
do a perfect Ella Fitzgerald.

~~~
tayo42
> I'm far more interested now in hearing whatever some weird new electronic
> artist is coming up with

Who in electronic music is pushing any of the genres forward right now? Trap
and festival house took over festivals and stopped innovating. dubstep seems
to be on life support, same with electro house. Trance hasn't moved forward
and if anything wants to go back to the 90s sound. House never seemed to get
ambitious

~~~
zwegner
There's really quite a lot, if you know where to look. One particular genre I
enjoy is experimental bass music, that tends to emphasize extremely detailed
sound design and production. Every song will generally sound completely
different. Here's a few songs, all from the last year or two, that should give
a rough idea of what I'm talking about:

SIXIS - Faceless:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmJ8KAt8dQ4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmJ8KAt8dQ4)

Mr. Bill & kLL sMTH - Killiam William:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kBvWVkqebc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kBvWVkqebc)

Frequent - Pumple Snout:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkzZhefuPGI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkzZhefuPGI)

Freddy Todd - Audible Edibles:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hJM8nae9qM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hJM8nae9qM)

KOAN Sound - Chilli Daddy:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6r9qxHg3qk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6r9qxHg3qk)

Futexture - Through the Edge of Never:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNPpgJtJ9E4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNPpgJtJ9E4)

~~~
tayo42
They're talented sure. This doesn't sound like its to new from what I was
listening to 5 years ago. just looked it up, funk blaster came out in 2011.
the neuro sound is pretty old too. I was pretty into glitch for a while(ive
got signed tracks on beatport under the genre), ppl seem to be having fun
doing their thing but idk if its progressed much.

this is 6 years old. sounds similar to those links?
[https://soundcloud.com/disprove/disprove-rustic-
funk](https://soundcloud.com/disprove/disprove-rustic-funk)

ehh maybe i just need to come to terms im over it :(

~~~
zwegner
That's a real nice track, thanks for that.

Admittedly, in the music I posted there's definitely roots in dubstep, neuro
hop, glitch, etc. So it's not necessarily a "new" genre, and those tracks
could have feasibly been made five years ago, but IMO there's so much sonic
territory to explore that I still hear plenty of new tracks that sound unlike
anything else I've ever heard.

I'll throw out a few more tracks in the hopes you might find something new to
like:

Chee - Bane of Our Species - some heavier neuro hop type stuff, lots of broken
rhythms:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MI1i20GCRI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MI1i20GCRI)

Zebbler Encanti Experience w/ Woulg - Flesh Out - alternating between spacey
ambience and some super intense glitches:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6OOW9j3ZCM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6OOW9j3ZCM)

COPYCATT - Sweet Soul - some lush, jazzy neuro hop:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfnJ8s_AhP4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfnJ8s_AhP4)

Mindex - Cluster Overload - very layered, psychedelic bass type stuff:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir_tqgnStuU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir_tqgnStuU)

------
samangan
To shine a different light here in these comments, I think the recent
resurgence of jazz is interesting and very special. A lot of different forces
combined to make this happen, the most obvious being the trend of popular
music towards hip hop and people discovering their roots. But I think the
resurrection of vinyl had a large role to play here as well. Vinyl has blown
up in the past few years and many young people are quickly realizing that some
of the best recorded/mastered LPs were classic Jazz and Soul albums from the
past century. This is a gateway drug into modern Jazz and also blends nicely
with music nerds interested in obscure samples from their favorite modern
artists. Also, I dont see the point in being pedantic about genre labels, but
hey, its hacker news.

------
mrob
I don't think "golden age" implies no possibility of improvement. It could
improve to a "platinum age", which is popularly thought of as more valuable
that gold (even though it currently isn't). This is especially relevant to
music, because RIAA sales certifications are well known, and a "platinum
album" has sold more than a "gold album".

Or if you want something based on real word metal prices, it could be a
"rhodium age".

