
Quantum Air buys Bye's electric airplanes - prostoalex
http://aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2019/august/22/quantum-air-to-buy-24-bye-aerospace-eflyers
======
cagenut
I went down an electric-flight youtube rabbit hole a couple months ago and was
genuinely shocked at how far things have already developed. If anyone else is
curious, check out this set of presentations from the 2018 "sustainable
aviation foundation" symposium:
[https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHtqxcrPbJkSwI-
ozYr1AiQ/vid...](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHtqxcrPbJkSwI-
ozYr1AiQ/videos)

The 2019 symposium is coming up in october:
[https://www.sasymposium.com/](https://www.sasymposium.com/)

Also Uber just had its "elevate summit" on its flight plans (all electric):
[https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmVTG4mAK7nyJ7pu7pTd_...](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmVTG4mAK7nyJ7pu7pTd_7q29YUHvPZEt)

Basically, any question you have, someone has devoted the last few years of
their career to and given a 45 minute presentation on.

~~~
cagenut
Some more e-flight youtubes:

This is the specific plane mentioned in the article:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REdh3Q4cPuE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REdh3Q4cPuE)

That guy did a great roundup video of electric flight a few months ago:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIM3pgxHVIM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIM3pgxHVIM)

He also did a tour of the Pipestrel plan a month ago where you get to see some
"under the hood" stuff:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfjCXDf9rhk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfjCXDf9rhk)

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leoedin
I wonder what the life of the aircraft needs to be before the higher cost of
the aircraft amortises into lower overall costs. I'd imagine that the running
cost of a mainly solid state aircraft is significantly lower than a gasoline
one, but the initial battery cost will be very significant. It would be nice
if the rise of electric general aviation has the effect of reducing the cost
of flying.

However, I suspect then you'll run into other issues. I can't imagine LA can
have too many air taxis flying around before they become a nightmare to
manage. If the hourly cost of an air taxi is low enough that everyone can take
one, the sky will become saturated. There's obviously a lot of space, but our
systems for managing air traffic right now are designed around there being
tens to hundreds of aircraft in the same area, not thousands. We'd need to
introduce fully automated aircraft routing to have a hope of dealing with air
taxis over dense cities if they became remotely popular.

~~~
radicalbyte
I can't see how they compete when electricity is taxed whilst aviation fuel is
untaxed.

~~~
sokoloff
_Airline_ fuel is largely untaxed, but most other aviation fuel is taxed.

General aviation 100LL ("avgas") fuel is taxed federally at $0.191/gallon (or
$0.335/gallon for certain ownership structures).

General aviation jet fuel is taxed at $0.219 (to as much as $0.244) per
gallon.

Highway fuel is taxed federally at $0.184/gallon (slightly _less_ than avgas).

Electric aircraft are not poised to disrupt the jet-fuel burning sector of
aviation. The aircraft in this article will be competing against aircraft
using taxed fuel (100LL).

~~~
iancmceachern
Why is airline fuel untaxed?

~~~
sokoloff
I assume because the feds calculated that they can collect more revenue by
taxing elements of the tickets rather than the fuel, but I really don't know.

(Note that some states do tax airline jet fuel and some airports assess a
flowage fee per gallon [which is for practical purposes equivalent to a sales
tax].)

~~~
benj111
Airline jet fuel duty is covered by international agreements I think,
presumably to facilitate trade.

I don't know if that also applies to purely domestic use though. Maybe that's
how states can impose a tax?

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benj111
I cant help but feel they could have found a more fun headline.

Anyway, lithium sulphur is mentioned

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium%E2%80%93sulfur_batte...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium%E2%80%93sulfur_battery)

Could anyone add more background? Is this something we're likely to be seeing
in EVs any time soon?

~~~
pattisapu
"Quantum Buy Bye in Electric Tech Urban Air Dare"

~~~
benj111
I was toying with

"Quantum says good buy, and Bye says hello."

I think it's a bit too high brow for a head line though.

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quickthrower2
That was a hard headline to parse. First “Quantum air” when there is already
Qantas. And then “buys Bye’s”. Eek!

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FabHK
They claim 4 hours endurance, which would give it nearly 400 NM range. Not
bad, if it works. The 4 seater can carry 800 lbs. Wonder how long charging
takes.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bye_Aerospace_Sun_Flyer_4](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bye_Aerospace_Sun_Flyer_4)

~~~
dmitrygr
For carrying scheduled air passengers, you need to fly IFR. You need to have
fuel to fly to destination airport, then to reserve airport, and then 45
minutes. No sane pilot flies with that little reserve. Most airlines have
enough for destination, reserve, and 90-120 minutes. With that safety margin,
this thing has a "useful" range of maybe 150 nautical miles

~~~
FabHK
This is not scheduled, but Air Taxi, which I believe is a different part of
the FAR. And, yes, for small planes, there are plenty of alternate airports.
I'd say 200 NM or more are realistic.

------
garethgriffiths
Electric planes have very few parts and are easy to maintain. The main cost of
flying is fuel. Electric will make it a lot cheaper.

The battery as with all electric vehicles is still an issue, but for short air
taxi distances it will be fine. Switch out the batteries on arrival and go
again.

~~~
Reason077
It's unlikely that switchable/swappable batteries will be a thing in aviation.

Even in the smallest aircraft, the batteries weigh hundreds - or thousands -
of kilograms, comprise the bulk of the aircraft's dry weight, and are likely
to be tightly integrated with the rest of the airframe for structural and
safety reasons.

Most aircraft spend enough time on the ground between flights to make fast DC
charging quite practical, and certainly much more so than swapping out huge
batteries.

------
PunksATawnyFill
Very cool. Now if we can keep corrupt local politicians from destroying our
airports and turning the land over to developers (this means you, SANTA
MONICA)... transportation might continue to advance.

~~~
jillesvangurp
Yes, you are right. Politicians have not realized yet that things are going to
change. The main reason people don't like airports is pollution and noise. If
you take that away, living close to an airport is actually quite nice since
that means you can get in and out quickly.

Santa Monica and similar airports are going to be ground zero for this because
they have lots of rich people living near by that might opt for an electrical
plane. Sounds like an awesome way to get around LA, which has quite a few nice
small airports.

Basically Bye and Eviation are launching products that are sort of hitting the
sweet spot for general aviation. They have enough range that you can go
somewhere at a small portion of the cost of a typical 100$ hamburger.

Probably in about a decade, there will be enough of these things flying that
regulation and politics will adapt. Many airports currently have landing
limitations because of noise. I could see some exceptions being made for
electrical planes or even some airports being limited to only electrical
planes. I could even see how building new airports could become popular again;
especially close to cities and especially for VTOL planes (need a lot less
runway).

~~~
cagenut
Most of the things you mention in your last paragraph are addressed in this
talk, you'll probably enjoy it:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGUrXCBB1OI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGUrXCBB1OI)

