
Complete and Voluntary Starvation of 50 days - onuralp
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4982520/
======
DyslexicAtheist
I did this too myself in 2013 with roughly the same numbers (initial body
weight ~92kg losing 20kg in 7 weeks most of it body mass). Also I didn't take
supplements and cut down to tap water only (no food or soups or anything).
Reintroducing my body to food was challenging to say the least.

I had prior experience doing such a diet once before (for 21 days a year
earlier) knowing 8 weeks could be realistic for me to maintain at the time. I
stopped a week early because even I boiled the tap water, the residual
chlorine left over wasn't properly broken down by my body (food helps with
that normally) and caused strong reactions every time I tried to drink (nausea
even vomiting in final week). So not being able to hydrate myself I needed to
stop very abruptly.

After I reintroduced my body to food I ended up in hospital a week later due
to kidney stones (presumably a side effect of the starvation diet and flushing
them out)

The hunger goes away after the 3rd/4th day and I was even able to go for a
small run every other day until week 5. My motivation for it was neither
religious nor to loose weight (although I had 10kg too much compared to my
ideal shape 5 years before). People thought I was crazy for doing it (and I
didn't tell anyone about it while it happened and also refused to discuss it
with my doctor). I wanted to see how my body (and mind) reacts to extreme
pressure like that. Also I felt experienced enough at the time to do this I
would not recommend pushing too far into the extreme especially if it's your
first time. Also worth noting that my weight never bounced back and I managed
to maintain my ideal even after 5 years later (only gained 5kg mostly bodymass
I lost not so much the fat).

My mental abilities (creativity, concentration, focus) were incredible
especially until week 5. What I learned is as the body prepares for starvation
it also releases huge amounts of energy that is stored up. Feels like having
super powers. The body makes these reserves available so we can give it a
final push for hunting or finding food (when homo sapiens is out in nature
trying to survive I guess). It's probably why fasting is such a big thing in
every religion.

~~~
Jaruzel
> _My mental abilities (creativity, concentration, focus) were incredible
> especially until week 5._

How long did it take from the onset of the fasting, for your mental abilities
to show improvement?

~~~
DyslexicAtheist
Once I overcame the initial hunger feeling of the first days it became
noticeable. It then increased peaking in week 3 to 5 but present even until
the final days.

In the last days I became aware that every day I continued it was another day
where my mind "won" against my body, and this scared me increasingly because I
was no longer sure if I was still listening objectively to my body or if I was
trying to prove something just for the sake of it. (e.g. "you came already
that far now don't give up" -> this reasoning worked well for doing marathons
sports but felt was dangerous to apply here). It was like my body telling me
that it would no longer support my BS, ... but not via a hunger feeling as in
initial days but I became so weak that walking more than few meters required a
rest. Even speaking for more than 10 mins was tedious.

------
tristanj
Related: Results of a 382 day voluntary fast
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/)
(1973)

This patient's initial weight was 207 kilograms, and over the course of a year
he lost 125 kilograms. During this time he only consumed water, yeast, and
multivitamins. After ending the fast, he successfully kept the weight off and
only regained 7 kilograms over the next 5 years. He received a Guinness World
Record for the longest recorded fast.

While a successful example of weight loss, the paper does cite five reports of
fatalities occurring during total starvation weight loss treatment. It is
probably not the safest way to lose weight.

~~~
fegu
It is amazing that we have so good knowledge over what the body needs that one
can live on just water, yeast and multivitamins for a year. But why the yeast?

~~~
tristanj
The paper does not say, however I did find a source speculating why:

 _The reason doctors administered yeast is simple – it was his only source of
protein, and without it, the body starts eating its own muscle tissue. Without
any form of protein at all, the man would not be able to "direct" his body to
consume his vast amounts of body fat as fuel, and would die within weeks._

 _Just two tablespoons of nutritional yeast[1] provides a person with 60
calories, 5 grams of carbohydrates and 9 grams of protein – including all nine
amino acids, which the human body cannot produce on its own._

Seems like nutritional yeast is a convenient source for essential amino acids.

[0] [https://coach.nine.com.au/2016/04/06/17/01/the-mystery-
behin...](https://coach.nine.com.au/2016/04/06/17/01/the-mystery-behind-
the-207kg-scotsman-who-fasted-for-over-a-year)

[1]
[http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/custom/1323565/2](http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/custom/1323565/2)

------
RobertRoberts
Last summer I fasted (intermittent) for 30 days. I had intended to do a pure
fast (water only), but circumstances lead me to 1 meal a day.

I gained strength the longer I was in the fast. My running distance increased,
and I lost on average .5 lbs a day. I weighed myself 4 times and day, logged
all my meals and activity. I felt great. I gained back about 5 lbs on average,
but this fluctuates some. (as is expected)

The key thing I learned from this, to maintain my weight loss, is to
appreciate being hungry. It makes your next meal taste better, you have signal
process to let you know you are burning fat, and it makes your stomach
consistently smaller so you fill up easier. All wins...

~~~
dempseye
What was your starting BMI? What was your finishing BMI? Did you experience
any of the symptoms the guy in the case report got (stomach cramps, blackouts
when standing up, belching, etc.)?

~~~
RobertRoberts
I am pretty healthy to start with (this guy seemed to have quite a few issues
implied by his weight history). I didn't measure BMI beyond pinching my belly.

I had no negative symptoms at all. I suspect partly because it wasn't a long
term complete fast, and also, I've fasted my entire life at least once a year,
so I know what to expect. I stay well hydrated, and get plenty of sleep.

Sorry for the lack of BMI info, but my pants getting loose was my measure for
that. :)

Edit: With what I know now, if I had negative symptoms, I'd start with
multiple shorter fasts until I could handle longer ones. The minimum would be
24 hours.

~~~
KMag
> I didn't measure BMI beyond pinching my belly.

It sounds like you kept track of your starting weight and ending weight. If
you know your starting and ending height or can safely assume your starting
and ending height are very close to your current height, you can calculate
change in BMI. There's no need for a skin caliper measurement, as you seem to
be implying.

~~~
RobertRoberts
I will have to look up BMI calcuations at some point (currently working), and
add this data to my spreadsheet. Thanks, I didn't know this was possible.

~~~
KMag
BMI is body mass in kg divided by the square of height in meters. The
typically cited normal range is 18.5 kg/m^2 to 25 kg/m^2.

Technically, you can use whatever units you want, but almost every chart uses
units of kg/m^2, and if the units aren't explicit, they're quite probably
using kg/m^2.

~~~
RobertRoberts
I used an online conversion tool [0], and got these numbers.

Starting BMI: 28.6 Ending BMI: 25.9

It says I am still overweight, even at my lowest weight. lol

I am curious what these numbers mean to you? (I know I need to lose more
weight, cause I can see it in the mirror...)

[0] [https://bmicalculator.mes.fm/](https://bmicalculator.mes.fm/)

~~~
KMag
A very lean bodybuilder could still have a high BMI.

I don't have a reference offhand, but the US Army has a lot of data on
military-service-aged men and their cardiovascular health risks. They found
BMI isn't a great predictor of cardiovascular health. Some formula involving
height and the circumference of the belly was a much better predictor of
cardiovascular risks.

A thin but tall westerner colleague in Japan told me that doctors in Japan are
required to counsel anyone with a waist circumference over a certain limit
about weight loss. There's no correction for height (or race), only sex. His
doctor realized that my colleague isn't overweight, but still had to lecture
him. BMI at least accounts for height, but can be similarly misleading.

------
sgift
> Clear ethical barriers preclude structured research into the physiology of
> such stimuli.

I wonder why that is. The key point is "voluntary" starvation, read fasting.
Why not make a study with consenting participants to fast for a specific time?
Which "clear ethical barrier" is broken here?

~~~
DoreenMichele
I have done lots of alternative stuff to deal with a serious medical
condition. I have done so very successfully. I also did it without external
pressure to stay a particular course, etc.

People when watched behave different. People under contract behave different.

It is one thing to take notes when someone does this voluntarily. It is quite
another to put people under contract for something like this.

~~~
sgift
Fair point. I thought more on the lines of "we search people who want to fast.
We will provide medical supervision and a controlled environment where you can
do that, while we take notes. If you want to quit, you can at any time." (I
assume with contract you mean something like "you have to fast for x days, if
not you are in breach of contract" \- is that correct?)

~~~
DoreenMichele
I just mean a contract agreeing to a study at all. "What gets measured gets
done." Etc.

I am under the close supervision of my 30 old son and have been since he was
13. It's a completely different dynamic than reporting results to a doctor or
lab for a study.

------
pmoriarty
Also see:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/fasting/](https://www.reddit.com/r/fasting/)

------
ilitirit
I started eating once a day about 2 months ago. Lost about 20kg. After a while
you just stop getting as hungry as you usually would. Sometimes when I'm busy
I actually forget to eat.

------
xurukefi
As somebody who is not familiar with medical research, can anyone tell me why
the authors mention the BMI here at all? As far as I understand, the BMI is an
indispensable metric for statistics on large populations. However, in a case
study involving only a single individual, it seems to me that other markers
such as body fat percentage for example, would be a better choice making the
BMI more or less meaningless.

~~~
goldenkey
The individual used an electrocapactive conductance device to measure his body
fat. It was listed as 29.9%. Maybe try reading the content next time..

~~~
xurukefi
It still doesn't explain to me why the authors still mention the BMI. It seems
like a meaningless piece of information given that they have much better
markers.

------
sackintor
Of related interested, and possibly the only paper that has reached the NEJM
with a magician as an author, is this paper that describes David Blane's
physiology having spent 44 days fasting in a box:
[http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM200511243532124](http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM200511243532124)

------
dmichulke
The unit of the BMI should be kg/m^2

Will read the rest now but I'm not sure what to think of a paper with such an
error in the first line of the abstract.

~~~
geezerjay
I don't see that as an error. Although there's a popular simplified model that
expresses an ideal weight as a function of kg/m^2, the weight/height ratio is
indeed expressed as kg/m.

Furthermore, if that detail was relevant I'm sure that the paper wouldn't have
passed through a peer review process.

~~~
sackintor
If the authors were using kg/m^-1 instead of kg/m^-2 with the given
information (96.8 kg; BMI, 30.2 kg m−1; height not provided), the patient
would need to be over 3m (nearly 10 ft) tall. This seems unlikely. If it were
true, it would probably make for an even more interesting case report.

Peer review for less well known pay-to-publish ($1800) journals like this one
is by no means a guarantee of quality:
[http://science.sciencemag.org/content/342/6154/60.full](http://science.sciencemag.org/content/342/6154/60.full)

~~~
xurukefi
kg/m^-1 -> kg/m (or kg * m^-1)

kg/m^-2 -> kg/m^2 (or kg * m^-2)

;)

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anilgulecha
In the jain community, i see a lot of fasting around me. Everything from
whitelist-of-foods, to total and complete fasts.

Some momore info:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasting_in_Jainism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasting_in_Jainism)

Enterprising researchers should collect data from above.

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rexstjohn
I lost over 40lbs doing this, not as extreme.

As everyone else reports, I felt more energy and focus, massive rapid weight
loss.

Fasting is a miracle cure, I tried nearly everything else. More people need to
know about how effective it is.

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Torai
So, at the end they found out it's bad?

