
India orders anti-trust probe of Google for alleged Android abuse - occamschainsaw
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-google-india-antitrust-exclusive/exclusive-india-orders-anti-trust-probe-of-google-for-alleged-android-abuse-sources-idUSKCN1SG17O
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billfruit
Indian anti trust mechanisms are weak and ineffective, many government owned
companies are themselves indulging in activities which should invite anti
trust measures, so I hardly see anything significant coming out of this move.

~~~
ggcb
gov owned companies excuse for existing is the acceptance of the benefits to
society if such enterprises controls the monopoly.

you don't expect the water and power dept leaving out a neighborhood just so
the free enterprise have a chance there, do you?

~~~
addicted
The fact that govt owned/regulated monopolies make sense in some industries
does not contradict what the OP says.

A very obvious example in India is the Indian airline industry. As an intern I
worked with an investment bank on preparing a pitch for the sale of a private
Indian airline, and the entire thing basically hinged on what the government
wanted to do with the national airlines (which since then have been merged).
The Indian government’s recent inability to sell Air India has led them to
take action that, at least to an outside observer who did some pretty in depth
research, albeit a decade ago, appears to have been driven by reducing
competition for the government airline.

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scblzn
Recently there was this too (made quite some noise on social networks) :
[https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/05/08/kiwi-browser-
remove...](https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/05/08/kiwi-browser-removed-from-
play-store-due-to-youtube-background-playback/)

Ok, this story is more about Google Play Store but I feel like there is maybe
(in my opinion) some conflict and abuse of dominant position here too.

Felt like it was relevant will all the other Google stories in the last days
(Nest for ex.)

~~~
rahuldottech
Fuck man, this is ridiculous!

> Chromium-based Kiwi Browser attracted widespread attention last month after
> it added support for desktop Chrome extensions. The app recently vanished
> from the Play Store, and while some assumed it was due to the browser's new
> extension support, it was apparently removed due to its ability to play
> YouTube videos in the background — functionality that is supposed to be
> reserved for the native YouTube app with a Premium subscription.

Fuck this shit man. As a kid I always wanted to work for Google. And now as a
teen I find it hard to believe how they turned on the whole "don't do evil"
thing.

It's like a friend put it the last time I was ranting about this:

"Its like funding out your childhood hero was a fraud :/"

~~~
ganeshkrishnan
I am rabidly against Google and people demanding breakup of Facebook, Amazon
etc are really forgetting the snake in the grass, Google.

As I said before, everyone loves Google until it stomps them on their face.

People have been permanently banned from everything on Google for their bots
stupid algorithm.

Fuck Google and fuck everything they stand for.

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sessy
Just about a decade ago Microsoft faced similar charges for bundling IE with
Windows OS. By the time the dust settled on all litigations, the competition
was decimated or attenuated to stay in business.

~~~
bartimus
Windows isn't open source though.

~~~
pjmlp
Neither is Android.

AOSP is a very small part of what actually makes Android on the eyes of
consumers.

~~~
vatueil
Depending on how "what actually makes Android on the eyes of consumers" is
defined, it's certainly possible to minimize the role of AOSP.

At the same time, we're getting articles talking about how Microsoft is now an
"open source company" because their proprietary operating system can run Linux
and some open source apps: [https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/05/microsoft-
the-open-s...](https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/05/microsoft-the-open-
source-company/)

~~~
lnanek2
I have to agree with him. I had to fix an app for a Huawei Honor 8x phone the
other day. As the phone doesn't have Google Play Services and doesn't offer it
in the app store - it's a huge pain using it. Enthusiasts can sometimes hack
Google support on to an AOSP edition, but as app developers, we have to
support what every day customers can do.

There are so many apps that won't work on it at all since Google has been
steadily replacing AOSP services like location with Google Play proprietary
versions. If you go to the open version of location services, you'll see
there's a huge note at the top that you should really go use Google's version:
[https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/location](https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/location)

And any app that requires that, isn't going to work on Android releases that
don't have Google's blessing like Huawei.

~~~
vatueil
The point regarding Play Services is valid, and if the parent comment had
focused on that I would not have objected. But that doesn't mean AOSP is a
"very small part" of Android or that it isn't open source.

The flip-side of your experience is that it highlights the existence of a
large number of Android devices based on AOSP that don't run Google apps,
particularly in the PRC. Aside from the Chinese market, you have a major
company like Amazon selling millions of devices with their own AOSP fork on
them. On an individual level, I can install Lineage OS on my unlocked devices
and use apps from F-Droid as well as many others.

Play Services does have a significant foothold in many users' experiences,
which bears discussion, but it doesn't invalidate AOSP. It is Android's open
source nature that allows for forks and for apps to be shared across the
Android ecosystem much more readily than programs developed for an actual
proprietary operating system such as Windows.

~~~
pjmlp
Apps have been shared across PC-DOS, MS-DOS, DR-DOS, and several Windows
variants, exactly the same was as Android for the last 30 years.

~~~
vatueil
Really, DOS? And new versions of Microsoft Windows? That's not even remotely
comparable to the situation with open source Android forks.

~~~
pjmlp
Yes, really.

~~~
vatueil
And "Windows variants"? Comparing Windows backwards compatibility to the
ability to run Android apps across different Android forks misses the point.
All versions of Windows are proprietary operating systems owned by the same
company: Microsoft. Amazon Fire OS, Lineage OS, and other Android forks are
not.

~~~
pjmlp
Yes, Windows variants as well.

Microsoft does license Windows to the same OEMs that are having fun with
Android, which just like on Android are allowed to do a certain level of
customisations.

Windows is not only what comes with a PC.

The only big difference is that AOSP costs zero dollars, euro, yen,.....

~~~
vatueil
The difference is that it's free and open source. ROMs such as Lineage OS do
not need to pay for a commercial license to fork the code, and an app such as
F-Droid can run natively on any Android device.

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zuron7
The irony is strong with this one considering a lot of Government apps do not
work without Google Play Services. Including incredibly popular payment apps
like BHIM which was developed by NPCI (National Payments Corporation of
India). I know cos I have a phone without Play Services and using Government
apps is out of question. Thankfully, there are web alternatives for all
servuces

~~~
wtmt
NPCI, contrary to what the name seems to imply, is not a government company or
organization. It’s a consortium of government and private banks (including the
likes of foreign banks like Citibank and HSBC). Its payment services are
allowed by the RBI. Neither is the BHIM app a government app. It’s an NPCI
app.

~~~
zuron7
Ah, seems that you are right. The government doesn't own it, but sure does
seem to have a controlling stake through the Public Sector Banks.

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thisisit
CCI, the government body in question, was formed about a decade ago. It
already has couple of run-ins with Google:

1\. They fined Google INR 1 Crore in 2014 for refusal to provide information
relating to a "search bias" case 2\. Later, on the same case Alphabet was
fined INR 135.86 crores

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onetimemanytime
death by dozen cuts. If major countries keep fining and forcing them to change
behavior eventually it will hurt

~~~
jfoster
Countries probably need Android more than Android needs countries.

How would India like to have a choice between iOS & BlackBerry? Android losing
India as a market would suck a bit for Android, but life would go on.

~~~
scarface74
There is a little country called China that has plenty of “Android” phones
that have no Google services.

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dqybh
Isn't it election time in India?

~~~
amf12
Majority Indians don't give a shit about this or understand it enough to
influence elections.

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snr
Make it "punishable by up to 5% of _global_ turnover over last three years"
(kinda similar to GDPR) and stand back and see how quickly Google (I'm looking
at you too Facebook, and Amazon) will change their shit show. India is at a
position of strength wrt Google, Amazon, and Fb to easily force them to play
nice. Now if only they realized it.

~~~
kkarakk
it's india, i doubt anything will happen besides some combination of
judge/businessman/politician getting their hands nice and greased up. only
reason they even care is because the EU got google to cough up already,
they're in it for their pound of flesh.

~~~
webbrahmin
I will disagree with you here. Cases which are in the public eye are settled
without the things you mentioned. There are Indian government institutions
which are honest. Financial regulator and watchdog SEBI is one such
institution. I have worked in the financial services industry are we were
scared of SEBI. Competition Commission of India is also nonpartisan and has
never been in a corruption scandal as far as I know.

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wtmt
Digital literacy is very poor in India. Most people in India wouldn’t
understand what a browser choice actually means, even if Google is forced to
provide it. I’m sure Google would also frame the browser choice with dark
patterns to make Chrome the default, so that it can continue earning money
from ads since Chrome doesn’t support extensions on Android (thwarting ad
blocking).

Since this probe may take a year or longer (things usually take longer in
India), the impact on Google would be very less. Google could figure out ways
to appease the CCI without sacrificing much.

~~~
rahuldottech
> Digital literacy is very poor in India.

You're very wrong here. Source: am Indian.

Edit: I think that you're an Indian too, from a previous comment. I don't know
what age bracket you're in or what demographics you're exposed to, but digital
literacy is not poor here at all, and is rapidly on the rise.

~~~
wtmt
Your qualification of being Indian isn’t enough (if it were, then this would
be a tie). Knowing how to open Facebook or YouTube isn’t digital literacy
(though it can be considered as a very basic thing). Many poorer people
struggle with this fact.

Maybe your education, social/economic standing and your circle of
friends/coworkers hides others in the society and their hardships.

Digital literacy may be on the rise, but even “basic” things like transferring
money from one bank account to another is out of the reach of many people. How
many understand basic security principles and follow them? As I pointed out,
what percentage even knows what a browser is and what alternatives exist?

