
US President Says Windmills Are Bird Killers as He Tries to Revive Coal Industry - freediver
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-says-windmills-are-bird-killers-he-tries-revive-coal-industry-1079910
======
smcl
Well no actually he said that _birds kill windmills_ and also threw in a
confused comment that coal is indestructible. The full transcript is insane:

> You remember Hillary with the coal, right? Sitting with the miners at the

> table. Remember? That wasn’t so good for her. So the people of West Virginia

> and all over, you look at Wyoming, you look at so many different places
> where

> they just – Pennsylvania – where they loved what we did. And it’s clean coal

> and we have the most modern procedures. But it’s a tremendous form of
> energy,

> in the sense that, in a military way, think of it. Coal is indestructible.

> You can blow up a pipeline. You can blow up the windmills. Y’know, the

> windmills boom, boom, boom. [shoots gun] Bing. That’s the end of that
> windmill.

> If the birds don’t kill it first. The birds can kill it first. They kill so
> many

> birds. You look underneath some of those windmills and it’s like a killing
> field,

> the birds. But that’s where they were going to, they were going to wind-a-
> mills.

> What happens when the wind doesn’t blow? Well then we have a problem. Okay,
> good.

> They were putting them in areas where they didn’t have much wind, too. And
> it’s a

> subsidy. You need a subsidy for windmills. Who wants to have energy where
> you

> need subsidy? So the coal is doing great.

~~~
mdrzn
> The birds can kill it [the windmill] first. They [the windmills] kill so
> many birds.

Sounds like either an oxymore or someone can't fully express their thoughts.

~~~
krapp
>Sounds like either an oxymore or someone can't fully express their thoughts.

Bear in mind, Trump was elected in part _precisely_ because he can't fully
express his thoughts in the way a "politician" would. He doesn't appeal to his
base through rational argument but emotion.

------
grecy
Australian politicians have been pushing "clean coal" for a few years now.

In cases like these it's so blatantly obvious there is big money on the line
for the existing coal industry and they have obviously paid very big money to
be protected. Anywhere else in the world it would be called corruption or
bribery, but in our shiny world those words are banned so new speak says we
simply call it business as usual in politics.

~~~
dwd
There are also genuine people trying to look out for local communities that
rely on the coal.

I personally know the director of Clean Coal Victoria from before he was mine
manager at Loy Yang and worked for the Country Roads Board. He's trying to
find a solution but it's too late for coal now.

~~~
voodootrucker
> genuine people trying to look out for local communities that rely on the
> coal

"genuine people" try to do all kinds of harmful regressive stuff. It does not
excuse the outcomes of their actions for the world at large.

~~~
hydrox24
> It does not excuse the outcomes of their actions for the world at large.

Absolutely not. But the grandparent was arguing that the push for clean coal
is a result of corruption and people acting insincerely.

The parent was pointing out that not everyone with an interest in clean coal
is corrupt.

~~~
dwd
Yes, not corrupt but I can agree on misguided and wrong in that they bring a
sense of legitimacy to something that isn't going to work, doesn't have time
to work and allow those who stand to profit in the meantime to hold out on the
pretext that they can make it good.

------
NeedMoreTea
In the years before the UK had any onshore wind, but some were wanting to
start, this was a claim commonly heard in the media.

Fast forward 20 or 30 years; turbines are common, birds unaffected and all the
predictors of doom are quietly back in the woodwork free of any consequences
from their disingenuous bullshit.

Of course _some_ bird species are in huge trouble - mainly, it turns out, due
to the catastrophic loss of insect species thanks to our farming practices.

------
bayesian_horse
Good luck, President Quixote.

~~~
Viperus
I wish I could upvote this comment much more!

------
dwd
Shallow thinking at its worst, the facts tell a different story.

[https://blogs.umass.edu/natsci397a-eross/whether-or-not-
wind...](https://blogs.umass.edu/natsci397a-eross/whether-or-not-wind-
turbines-are-a-significant-threat-to-bird-populations/)

------
piquadrat
Is it me or does that article not even try to fact check Trumps assertion that
wind mills are killing fields for birds? What a piss poor try at "journalism".

[https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-
scienc...](https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/wind-
turbine-kill-birds.htm)

tl;dr: wind mills kill something like 10'000-40'000 birds per year, compared
to e.g. cars at 60-80 million, and cats in the hundreds of millions.

~~~
kraigie
Also United States in 2006 but nuclear plants killed about 327,000 and fossil-
fuelled power plants 14.5 million. In other words, for every one bird killed
by a wind turbine, nuclear and fossil fuel powered plants killed 2,118 birds.
You would think that would be journalism worthy.

Plus Windmills only tend to kill birds in high numbers when built in migration
paths.

Fortunately it's a bit easier to build them else where and send electricity
than it is to relocate highways.

------
woofdogwoof
Even the coal industry knows they are dead. This nonsense is coming from
somewhere else.

I’m not a conspiracy guy, but Trump is making a believer out of me. I think
he’s financially indebted to the Russians, way prior to the elections, like 20
years, and when they managed to manipulate him into the Presidency he was
stuck. Which is why he would never release his financials, because it would
prove the Russians have him by the balls, and that he has far less money than
anyone would believe. A broke Trump is a impotent Trump, a broke Trump that is
owned by the Russians is the equivalent of a traitor.

The American people need to be unified in voice to demand that his financials
are released. It should be the rallying cry of the nation, a drumbeat that
keeps getting louder every day.

~~~
XorNot
He's still screwed long term - once he's no longer president the Republicans
and Fox News will lose all interest in defending him, but the multiple
investigative journalists, actual FBI agents and the like will still have
career-making expose's and criminal prosecutions to be gained from following
up every lead and shady deal he's ever made.

~~~
cimmanom
But how much damage can he do to the country before then? And will all or even
most of it be reversible? In our current political climate?

------
vixen99
According to [http://www.sibleyguides.com/conservation/causes-of-bird-
mort...](http://www.sibleyguides.com/conservation/causes-of-bird-mortality/)
the biggest threat by far is windows.

------
dole
Trump's been on the losing end of a wind power fight offshore of one of his
Scottish golf courses, one of the reasons why Trump supposedly cares so much
about these terrible, disgraceful windmills.

[https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-
politics-38069...](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-
politics-38069605) [https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/25/world/europe/donald-
trump...](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/25/world/europe/donald-trump-
scotland-wall.html) [https://qz.com/1291269/the-scottish-wind-farm-donald-
trump-t...](https://qz.com/1291269/the-scottish-wind-farm-donald-trump-tried-
to-block-is-now-complete/)

------
mtgx
This is coming from someone who drugs and keeps kids in cages and launches
MOABs against "terrorists' families".

It's the birds that pull at his heartstrings, though.

------
TangoTrotFox
Just as a response to some that think this is indications of some conspiracy,
or a billionaire president on the take from coal interests or whatever else.

\- Ignore the pros, why shouldn't we have coal? It has negative effects
connected with climate change.

\- Ignoring the cons, why should we have coal? It's represents a good amount
of relatively high paying jobs with no barrier to entry. This [1] article
gives a fair overview of employment. There's about 174k jobs directly involved
in the coal industry. The number of jobs that are indirectly supported by the
industry is more open to 'massaging' but ranges from the hundreds of thousands
to the coal industry's estimate of > 1 million. It's not a huge number of
jobs, but what is unique about these jobs is the compensation and skills
requirement. The skill requirements for much of the work are nothing but an
able body and ability to learn. And the average earning for non-supervisory
roles is about $22/hour.

The current president is not so concerned about the consequences of climate
change - thus from his worldview he's going to see the argument against coal
as being little more than a push to make these jobs just disappear. And this
stands to be devastating to some states, and especially to some of the states
that helped put him in office. For instance the entire labor force of West
Virginia is 785k people, and of those you have 20k in mining alone and some
multiple of that in coal dependent jobs. That's a huge part of their entire
economy and laborforce. People constantly bemoan the lack of good paying jobs
for those without in-demand skills, and this is one of the few industries
where people without a strong technical background can get those very jobs.

I don't agree with Trump on this, but I also don't see why so many people seem
to have difficulty seeing how people can come to different conclusions on
things. People have different worldviews, and this is not only okay -- but a
very good thing. And when you take even the briefest of moments to try to see
things through somebody else's eyes, you'll often find that their actions make
perfect sense, even if you might indeed disagree with them.

[1] -
[https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Coal_and_jobs_in_the_U...](https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Coal_and_jobs_in_the_United_States)

~~~
kthejoker2
If we baked the negative externalities of coal directly into the business
their profits and wages would disappear in a heartbeat.

It is only by destroying my great grand children's enviornment that we can
achieve the ends you list here.

And we're talking about 10,000 birds dying in windmills. The disconnect and
diversion is the real issue.

If he got up and said what you said at least that worldview could be
confronted with facts.

~~~
kraigie
At that point biomass becomes a better option to fill coals role.

