
What can 6,000 electric vehicles tell us about EV battery health? - Breadmaker
https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/
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tomkludy
I own a 2012 Nissan Leaf which has had major battery degradation (first
battery went under 70% in only 33k miles, second battery currently around 85%
at 45k miles = 78k miles total on both). But on this site, the 2012 Nissan
Leaf has less than 2 years of data and shows zero degradation during that
time. So it seems like the data is questionable.

~~~
acomjean
I thought leafs had poor battery cooling compared to most cars (air vs liquid
cooling) and thus poor lifespan.

But your right it’s not comprehensive.
[https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/07/nissans-bigger-
battery-...](https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/07/nissans-bigger-battery-bev-
the-2019-leaf-plus-review/)

~~~
Faaak
my 2016 ioniq has still no perceivable battery degradation after 60k km. Maybe
the technology has changed ?

~~~
manfredo
Alternatively, it could be used a state of charge tracking mechanism that
conceals battery degradation. Say the battery has 100KWh, but the remaining
energy gauge reads zero after 80KWh are expended. You could be degraded to
90KWh but you wouldn't perceive any reduced usable energy until it degrades
below 80KWh.

~~~
ClumsyPilot
This seems contrived - the whole point of incomplete charge / discharge cycle
is to spare the battery from degradation.

~~~
manfredo
Yes, and my point is that the mechanisms to prevent battery degradation can
often end up masking the degradation. This isn't nefarious, it's the byproduct
of good state if charge management.

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annoyingnoob
I tried to look up the 2012 Chevy Volt. There is only 2 years of data for an 8
year old car. Not sure what its trying to tell me about 8 year old batteries
when there is only data for the first 2 years.

~~~
robotbikes
I saw that too. I have a 2012 Chevy Volt and it still gets on average around
32-35 miles (about original capacity) - The range depends a lot on driving
style and climate control. I found out how Chevy over-engineered the system to
only use 50% of the battery to maximize its life and the advanced cooling
system. The fact that it has a built-in gas-powered generator allows it to be
more conservative of the battery life.

~~~
WrtCdEvrydy
> it has a built-in gas-powered generator

I've always wanted to drive a hybrid vehicle... how is the maintenance on this
(I'm a 2005 toyota corolla kinda guy)?

~~~
annoyingnoob
I can't speak for others but I had a 2012 Volt and my assessment overall is
meh. I'd say that the Volt nails average, its not great at anything and its
not terrible at much. I loved driving electric, no shifting, just smooth
power. The gas engine how ever would vibrate the car much more than a normal
gas car does. Everything in the Volt is lightened - I think the roof might
even be plastic. The rear view mirror would vibrate out of place when the gas
engine was running. The gas engine is mostly used like a generator in the
Volt, meaning it runs at higher RPM most of the time to charge the batteries.
I can't tell you how many times I was at a stop light with someone in the
crosswalk right in front of the car when the engine decided to start and run
at 3500-4000 RPM. You get surprised looks when pedestrians think you are
revving up for them. My advice, skip the hybrid and just go electric.

~~~
js2
We like our second generation Volt. We bought it knowing that it's 55 mile
electric range would be sufficient for 95% of my wife's driving, but we also
wanted something she could use for occasional road trips of several hundred
miles without range anxiety or needing to find an EV charger. Tesla was out of
our price range at the time, but even now, level-2 chargers, much less
superchargers, are still not as widespread as gas stations especially to the
places she sometimes road trips.

The gas engine is somewhat whiny, but I don't find that it vibrates the
vehicle.

We're at 62K miles, of which 54K have been all electric. I've had to change
the oil once. Visits to the gas station are maybe six times a year. I think
it's worked out to about 2000 miles per tank of gas. Put new tires on it
around 50K.

As to build quality, yeah, it's an econobox with a very fancy drive train.
Nothing rattles in it though besides all the random crap my wife keeps in the
car. She's been very happy with it.

Per usual, it depends on your use case and your mileage may vary.

~~~
annoyingnoob
I live in CA. Driving the 2012 Volt over the Grapevine would cause the
electronics to overheat and the car would slow down - it couldn't maintain 65
for the duration of the climb. Honestly, I got tired of adjusting the rear-
view mirror. I ended up with about 35K miles on that car, about 65% of them on
electric drive.

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passive
Key bit seems to be:

"..batteries are exhibiting high levels of sustained health. If the observed
degradation rates are maintained, the vast majority of batteries will outlast
the usable life of the vehicle."

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diydsp
Did anyone find interesting outliers? Results surprisingly uniform.

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RandomWorker
Issue I have with the tool is the graphic, and it seems everything is pretty
linear. Adding just two numbers: reduction Per year and total Reduction after
x years, would make it useful on mobile.

Another thing that would improve the tool is some statistics like the best 10%
did this and the worst 10% did this.

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guerby
I found this video of an actual lithium battery recycling plant interesting:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxCFDWMPu38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxCFDWMPu38)

Eco-friendly method of recycling EV batteries

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zackify
I have a 2020 model 3, that is 10 months old. (Got it in December)

It’s had 0% range loss. Still get the full 322. Pretty impressive.

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ArkVark
It looks to me like EVs are completely ready for prime-time, and the only
thing holding them back is the inertia/greed of major manufacturers (who
cannot sell spare parts or expensive maintenance regimes for them as easily).

Its just a shame that Tesla doesn't have a smaller car, the Model 3 is huge.

~~~
ericvanular
EVs themselves are ready, the infrastructure is still a limiting factor. We
need to keep working until range anxiety isn't an issue

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riffraff
Not just range anxiety, I literally wouldn't know where to charge my electric
car since I live in a city and have neither my own garden nor a garage, I
would have to put some cable out of my window across the street.

There are a few charging stations around my neighborhood but there are a ton
more cars.

~~~
wrkronmiller
Same problem in Manhattan. An electric car would be great for quick trips to
nearby mountains for snowboarding/hiking, but finding _any_ parking spot near
home can be a nightmare, let alone having to find one near one of the few
charging stations we have.

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toomuchtodo
Don’t own a car in Manhattan? One can always rent an EV for road trips.

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afrojack123
[https://thebulletin.org/2009/01/the-limits-of-energy-
storage...](https://thebulletin.org/2009/01/the-limits-of-energy-storage-
technology/)

Get the word out. Batteries are bad hydrogen is good. Current hydrogen gas
will have more energy than batteries at peak technology growth. This matters
because hydrogen cars are cheaper, more scalable, and more inclusive than
battery cars. Rich people get battery cars, you get a battery bike.

~~~
theshrike79
Hydrogen costs 9.5€/kg in Europe. Most cars need 1kg of hydrogen for a 100km
trip.

That's expensive as fuck.

Just did the math on my EV, the cost for a 100km trip is around 2.5€, and
that's me using public chargers, because I can't charge at home. With home
charging, that number would be about 1/3 lower.

PS. Hydrogen cars use the hydrogen to generate electricity, which is again
stored in batteries and used to run electric motors.

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ggm
The current cost of hydrogen is not indicative of its cost under a scale
market. What do you think the sustained cost per kg of hydrogen will be?

~~~
afrojack123
It is forecasted to be about the same as existing gas prices. It is law that
all gas/petrol cars have to be removed by 2050 so all existing gas
infrastructure will be replaced with hydrogen by then. Most likely earlier

