
A statement from f.lux about Apple's recent announcement - mrzool
https://justgetflux.com/news/2016/01/14/apple.html
======
rm999
A couple thoughts, as someone who has used f.lux for years and loves what it
does:

1\. It's a feature, not a product. And a simple one, conceptually. As much as
I'd love to have competition in apps offering this functionality (like
keyboards), "make my screen more red" isn't exactly rocket-science.

2\. It's not well-designed. Their messaging mixes up two very different use-
cases: matching the color of your room and aiding your sleep. That's ok - I
use it for both - but there's no way to customize it. Even a super-simple
option would let me communicate that I only want it on after 10:30 pm, a
couple hours before I go to sleep, when I darken my room. Instead I need to
deal with it automatically turning on every day at 4:30 pm, which makes
something that should be simple very cumbersome (I have to manually turn it on
and off every day in the winter).

~~~
nathankunicki
Offering up a loaf of bread pre-sliced isn't rocket science either, but
someone has to have the idea first, and executed it in a way that other people
say "Wow why didn't I think of that before." or "Huh, I could really find this
useful."

At the very least Apple could offer acknowledgement.

~~~
tacos
Tweaking color temperature has been done in Hollywood since... well, color.
You won't see a window on a set that hasn't been treated to balance indoor and
outdoor light. Tinting flashbulbs is common. Film editors select different
bulbs and gels in tiny cubicles during late night razor-and-tape editing
sessions. When video got popular in the 70s, they nudged the tint control.
Mid-80s Amiga video games shifted from day to night -- shadows too! TVs ship
with day/night/game modes. 10 year old car navigation systems automatically
switch colors at night. There's literally nothing new under the sun.

EDIT: yes, you can convert light to orange.
[http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/wp-
content/uploads/2013/0...](http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/wp-
content/uploads/2013/09/Rosco-CTO-Gels_sm.jpg)

~~~
amlgsmsn
>Tweaking color temperature has been done in Hollywood for nearly 100 years

Then why was it impossible to do on iOS (iPhones and iPads) since 2007?

I find it alarming that so many folks are supporting the actions of a company
to control and inhibit innovation, literally hurting consumers' health in the
process, in order to control and maintain their forced 30% cut of third party
program revenues.

They have literally implemented Palladium and Trusted Computing and it looks
like people cannot get more of it.

~~~
brians
No they haven't. There's no TPM in modern Apple computers of any brand. And
there's certainly nothing like the NGSCB Nexus, which I'd think essential to
calling something "literally Palladium."

~~~
aaron42net
There's a TPM-like mode with hardware isolation built into ARM for years, used
for disk encryption keys, DRM, auth keys, fingerprints, etc on IOS and
Android. See:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_execution_environment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_execution_environment)

------
k-mcgrady
Classy response. I was cringing before I even opened the link expecting
whining but I am pleasantly surprised. I use f.lux on my Mac and find it has
really improved my sleep. I hope Apple brings Night Shift to Mac as having the
feature built-in will help more people. Personally I don't see them changing
their policy towards f.lux on iOS until at least iOS 10 as the API's it
requires to function are currently private. Maybe with the introduction of
Night Shift they'll start to stabilise those and open it up.

~~~
MBCook
I don't see it as classy, because they call to be allowed to do the thing they
knew they weren't allowed to do.

And now that it's integrated, what's the benefit of letting a 3rd party do it
given how integral it is to the system? That's a lot of risk (wasted battery,
making it hard to read, etc.) for little reward.

I think if they had stopped at the "We call for Apple to..." it would have
been a great statement. Use it to say "See this is important, so on Android go
_here_ and Windows go _here_ and...".

~~~
biot
It could easily be handled in a seamless way. Have a system default, but also
let third-party developers build configuration screens to let users choose
when, how, etc. they want to adjustments made. Configuration aside, the only
time the third-party code is called is every _n_ minutes where iOS requests
"what are the new color settings?" and the app responds. iOS takes those
settings and applies them system-wide when appropriate, so (for example) the
code is never called when the screen is off, and this would also let Apple
provide features such as app-specific exceptions, which the third-party code
would have no visibility into. Very similar to how content blockers work for
Safari.

~~~
MBCook
In general that's not "the Apple way". When they provide customization points
like that (keyboards, notification widgets, share sheet icons) it tends to be
after the 'reference implementation' has been in iOS for a few years and the
problem has been well studied. Examples where it works very successfully
(Android usually) help.

Content blockers are the only thing I can think of off the top of my head that
haven't followed this pattern. That may be because it was a feature _Apple_
wanted to improve the experience but didn't want the legal fight that would
come with shipping their own blocker.

------
skc
So bizarre how app developers are always so polite and gracious when it comes
to Apple. It's like even everyone is deathly afraid of saying anything that
puts Apple in a negative light.

I can only imagine what this post would have looked like had it been say,
Google in question.

~~~
MCRed
There is no negative light here... this is a capability/feature that makes
sense at the OS level. On desktops you have access to the deepest parts of the
system, but on mobile, things need to be more secure.

Apple's done nothing wrong, and given Apple's history of implementing these
kinds of features, then opening them up to developers in the next release,
being polite when asking them to open them up is appropriate.

For instance, it used to be that only Apple apps could control the brightness
of the screen. Apple opened that up to all apps several years ago, and now
many apps use it.

Apple's just introduced new technology that would be useful for this app
developer, and in a way, they are effectively enabling this kind of app-- and
when they open it up in the next release (possibly iOS 10, since this is a
feature introduced in the iOS 9.3 interim release) it will be stable and
usable more broadly.

The combative attitude many on HN have towards apple is more about being in
the Google camp and seeing them as the enemy, than about Apple doing wrong by
anyone (Yeas yeas, I know they take %30 of transactions, but that's an
improvement over the %80 that previous generations of mobile software
developers had to give up.. and other stores take a similar cut. etc.)

~~~
vvanders
Apple has quite a history of prosecuting devs who say anything critical about
the company or its products.

Nothing related to Google at all(which is probably why you're getting
downvoted).

~~~
Anechoic
_Apple has quite a history of prosecuting devs who say anything critical about
the company or its products_

For example?

~~~
vvanders
[http://m.hardocp.com/news/2010/03/19/apple_bans_game_after_d...](http://m.hardocp.com/news/2010/03/19/apple_bans_game_after_dev_disses_app_store/#.VphMvcuIZnE)

You can find other examples if you look. I remember there being a big
kerfluffle about it ~2 years ago or so.

~~~
Bud
Not a good example, if you actually read the article, though. The app dev was
clearly trying to provoke Apple in any way he could; for instance, by raising
the price of his game to $400.

You mean "persecuting", btw, and not "prosecuting".

------
nchrys
I use f.lux on my Mac and it has made a real difference in my sleep. On my
iPad when I am reading late I use the inverted colors mode which can be
triggered by pressing three times on the home button (if you activate the
shortcut). I would say this is even more a relief for the eyes, as not only
blue colors become warm but all the white that is the background color for
most everything becomes just dark. Of course you can't watch movies in these
conditions but I highly recommend this for readers.

~~~
shostack
This. When I'm working at night on my desktop or laptop, I'm using f.lux. When
I'm browsing the web late at night, I have my brightness set as low as it can
go, and invert colors. Unfortunately the flickering of changing pages, images,
etc. and going from a page that has a white background to one that is black
(which shows up as white inverted) still wakes my wife up, so when I
anticipate flickering, I have to hide under the sheets to read like a little
kid reading past his bedtime.

Further, the minimum brightness on iPads is still blinding. You have to
download a specific "night browsing" browser just to get it to go lower, and
if you are in an ebook reader, you are reliant on them having something to
help.

Ultimately, I found that for ebooks I'm just way better off with one of the
new Kindle Paperwhites, which I'm absolutely in love with. However I still
find myself wishing that they had a native way to invert the colors of text.
This is trivial to do with common ebook/text doc formats, and I really wish
they'd make it an easy "night reading" feature. Having the entire screen with
a white background causes unnecessary eye strain and brightness when reading
at night. Reading white text on a black background is SOOO much easier on the
eyes in a low-light situation.

Taking it a step further, while I hate backlit screens for night reading, one
of my favorite reading setups is using a "terminal green" on black in Stanza
on my iPad. Now if only the Kindle Paperwhite could do color...

------
AdmiralAsshat
If memory serves, f.lux was banned for the "private" API's they used, which
was necessary to control the the screen warmth.

So now that Apple has released their own screen dimming app, is Apple's
implementation any different than flux's? Or did Apple effectively just abuse
their app policy so that they could proactively kill a competitor to their
"new" feature?

~~~
MBCook
Apple has not released a screen dimming app, they will be building it into the
OS.

This isn't a case where Apple did something incredibly arbitrary and
capricious and then immediately ripped someone off (such as if they kicked all
poker games out of the store and then included their own poker app). Apple
enforced long standing app store rules.

F.lux legitimately deserved to get yelled at, they used private APIs and
attempted to circumvent the app distribution system. Both were against the
license agreements you have to agree to if you want to use Xcode.

Obviously you can argue about whether the rules should exist, etc. But there
was no question that what they were doing would be 100% shot down.

~~~
nathankunicki
While you are correct, the concern to which you have responded to is by no
means the community's primary one.

Yes, it is true Apple rejected the app due to private API's. It was against
the rules to use those API's, and Apple was within their right to reject them.
Just as it is within the communities right to petition Apple afterwards and
ask them to open up those API's.

The concern now is that without any form of communication, Apple has gone and
released an alternative. It is a "ripoff", and there's no two ways about it.
The people from f.lux were very diplomatic in their response.

(You can call it an inbuilt feature instead of an "App" all you want, but the
US Department of Justice and EU Regulators have had long-standing concerns
against OS vendors bundling in features in an effort to stem competition. To
say nothing of the irrelevance of how the feature is distributed.)

~~~
MBCook
I do wonder if it's a ripoff. I'd heard of this idea before flux, and I wonder
if Apple is nimble enough to be able to 'respond' that quick. Frankly I doubt
it, especially if they put lots of thought into it.

I mentioned 'app' because if it WAS an app (which isn't their style, even
their apps are often bundled with the OS it would be _especially_ egregious
since they'd be doing the exact thing they told flux not to (and as we all
know Apple is happy to break their own rules).

I completely agree that in the anti-trust sense (like what happened to MS) the
app/built in this is irrelevant.

~~~
lawnchair_larry
Respond "that quick"? Flux has been around for years on all major operating
systems. It's even been around for years on the iPhone, and is commonly cited
as one of the main reasons that people jailbreak.

It's not really the case that they attempted to evade the distribution system
and then play the victim card. They've had no illusions that it would likely
remain exclusive to the jailbreak community due to the nature of the platform
and Apple's rules.

When Apple surprised everyone by saying they would allow sideloading in Xcode
7/iOS 8, f.lux thought great, we'll post it so non-jailbreakers can have it as
well. Apple asked them to remove the sideloading variant shortly after, not
because it uses private APIs, but because they were not distributing the
source. It's always remained available to jailbroken devices (see
[https://justgetflux.com/cydia/](https://justgetflux.com/cydia/)).

------
yggydrasily
Even though I really appreciate the idea behind it, I was never all that
comfortable running f.lux on my Macbook. I never understood why it was free
yet closed-source. It made me suspicious in a way, if that makes sense.

After a while I just gave up and uninstalled f.lux. Instead, I created a 4500K
white point copy of the default color profile and manually switched to it at
night, which seemed to have the same effect. It also prevented those big
flashes whenever switching to and from full-screen apps.

I'm grateful that f.lux has pushed this issue to the point of getting traction
as a built-in feature from Apple (and I do hope Apple brings it to OS X at
some point), however unless f.lux becomes open-source, I don't plan to
reinstall it.

~~~
DINKDINK
>I never understood why it was free yet closed-source. It made me suspicious
in a way, if that makes sense.

Unless binary builds are verified against the source code (or the code is
reviewed and compiled locally), security is not a criteria that's benefited.
The gitian process in bitcoin is an interesting solution on how to verify
builds.

~~~
hueving
You can just build the source yourself. So if you trust your compiler more
than flux devs, that would be better.

------
StavrosK
For context (and correct me if I have this wrong), f.lux was using a non-
standard way to allow people to install the app on their phones (allowing them
to install it using Xcode) and Apple banned that method. A few months later,
Apple announced an iOS feature that does exactly what f.lux does.

~~~
ethanbond
This isn't quite true.

Apple allows sideloading apps so that devs can work without the whole Apple
deployment shenanigans. You write your app, sign it in Xcode, and load it onto
your device.

This is allowed and encouraged.

F.lux did this to sign a compiled binary for their app. All good! Totally
fine. The problem is that that they then distributed _that compiled binary_ to
people to sideload.

You're allowed to distribute source code and let people compile and sign it on
their own Xcode – you are not allowed to distribute compiled code to sideload
onto people's devices.

There are open source alternatives that now both predate and outlive flux on
iOS, such as Gammathingy.

~~~
mikeash
I don't like this characterization that you're "not allowed" to distribute
compiled code to sideload. That act involves two parties: the people who made
the app, and the person who installs it.

Apple decided to butt into this simple transaction and shut it down, despite
the fact that they are not involved. But that's not so much "not allowed" as
it is "displeases a big company that throws their weight around a bit too
much."

~~~
eridius
They absolutely _are_ involved. Apple views distribution of unknown compiled
binaries as a serious security vulnerability, both because they can access
private APIs that the App Store would otherwise block, and because Apple has
no way to shut down an app distributed this way that turns out to be malware.

If the app is open source, you're free to compile it with Xcode and install it
on your device. That's fine, because the open source nature means you can see
everything the app is doing and verify that it isn't malware (and if not you
personally, then _someone_ can do it).

But for closed source distribution, barring enterprise distribution, it has to
go through the App Store. Allowing _anything_ else opens up Apple's customer
base to malware.

~~~
pcwalton
> That's fine, because the open source nature means you can see everything the
> app is doing and verify that it isn't malware (and if not you personally,
> then someone can do it).

Closed source isn't a barrier to reverse engineering in any practical sense
anymore. It's a post-IDA world.

~~~
lawnchair_larry
IDA has been mainstream among reverse engineers for at least 15 years, and
equivalents such as win32dasm existed before that, so there is not really a
notion of a post-IDA world.

Closed source is very much a huge barrier in verifying what software is doing,
just as much as it always has been. I say that as someone who has been
reversing engineering professionally for much of that time.

The number of people with the expertise and access to IDA is a tiny subset of
those who can just skim source code. And those who are competent reverse
engineers take 10x-100x longer going that route. An even smaller subset of
those have the inclination to even bother doing this for free in their spare
time.

------
lukeschlather
Personally, I use Redshift which is an open-source f.lux clone.

Ideally, I'd like to be able to watch TV/use a computer in a dark room and not
have to worry about it being so bright it gives me a headache, but also have
good color quality. Software color temperature apps handle the headaches
pretty well, but they don't save power and they don't let me see true colors.

It would be really nice to see some more hardware effort put into low-
intensity backlights, especially color reproduction at lower brightness
settings.

------
markpapadakis
I hope f.lux gets their chance with Apple. Their application is great and
helps so many people. Btw, Michael Herf is the guy who built Picassa. He is a
brilliant programmer and be sure knows a lot about graphics and colors.

------
gcr
This statement is a _great_ example of professional writing in action.

> Apple announced this week that they’ve _joined our fight_ to use technology
> to improve sleep.

Right from the opening sentence, this piece begins on a positive note. It
isn't f.lux vs apple. It's flux _and_ apple _versus the overarching problem,_
and that's a much more effective statement than the bitter fight that all of
us were probably expecting. I'm very impressed by the f.lux team's maturity.

If I were to teach a professional writing course, I would show this piece to
my students as an outstanding example of how spin can affect the reader's
perception.

~~~
nikolay
Oh, come on, they are just too small and afraid of gargantuan Apple! This is
the sadness of today - we can't have Robin Hoods anymore!

~~~
gcr
Well, how _could_ they have written their statement? Maybe this is a bit
closer to what I was expecting:

    
    
        > We're appalled. Apple has stolen our
        > wonderful idea, just like they always do,
        > so we're calling on the f.lux community
        > to boycot apple products. We are also
        > in the process of finding a lawyer
        > to defend our patent, which Apple
        > has blatantly etc etc ...
    

But what purpose would _that_ serve? It would definitely make some enemies. If
the project really is so small, a bitter statement like that probably isn't
going to matter much.

Maybe the f.lux folks are hurting inside. Even so, they've decided to put
aside their disappointment for a moment. They're calling us not to fight, but
to celebrate the fact that millions of people are going to get a good night's
sleep, in part because of the research they pioneered, even though they might
not reap the spoils of their work. I think it takes a big heart to write it
that way.

~~~
nikolay
It's not the vendetta I expected, it's spreading the awareness that Apple is
stealing ideas from small companies using its muscles and killing the desire
to innovate! The public needs to know and tell Apple: "Don't do this anymore!"
This is not stealing ideas, this is a daylight robbery! Blocking an app from
App Store just to bake in its features shortly - this is immoral and possibly
criminal!

------
binaryanomaly
It's not the first time apple is acting in such an unfavorable way towards
inventors/developers. It was exactly the same story regarding the use of the
voluem button for taking pictures. 1st banned by apple and the later on
integrated by apple. Not the best attitude imho.

~~~
MCRed
IT's not unfavorable to introduce a feature at the OS level and then release
it to developers when its stable and ready for prime time.

The brightness control that apps have now is a result of exactly this kind of
process.

Only thing "unfavorable" about the way Apple acts exists in the perception of
people who already have an axe to grind.

~~~
binaryanomaly
Maybe more constructive than just banning would be to approach a solution
together with the initial developer. Honoring his innovative approach and
eventually granting him temporarily a slight advantage in exchange for
bringing his innovative idea to the ecosystem instead of just playing
copycat...

------
goldenkey
F.lux is great but the root of the problem is the type of backlight that
monitors use. A hardware company ought to come out with a monitor armed with
multiple backlight bulbs.

I mean, look at the difference in abrasiveness of spectrum between these bulb
technologies:

[http://housecraft.ca/wp-
content/uploads/2012/09/spectral_res...](http://housecraft.ca/wp-
content/uploads/2012/09/spectral_responses2.png)

F.lux is great and helps but what we really need is an ergonomic monitor. That
will truly give us healthier eyes and improved circadian rhythm.

Monitor tech is hard but this sounds like a great goal for a startup. :-)

------
joblessjunkie
Did the f.lux team just seriously imply that dimming your monitor at night can
prevent cancer?

~~~
andrewmunsell
Maybe they were referring to something along the lines of this? (Note: I have
not seen the study referenced in my linked article, and cannot vouch for the
accuracy of Flux's statement)

[http://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/blue-light-
has...](http://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/blue-light-has-a-dark-
side)

"But we do know that exposure to light suppresses the secretion of melatonin,
a hormone that influences circadian rhythms, and there’s some experimental
evidence (it’s very preliminary) that lower melatonin levels might explain the
association with cancer."

------
sandbags
Although Apple are perfectly within their rights to do what they've done I
hope they'd reach out to the f.lux authors and do something for them. It's not
like they're destroying a business - f.lux being free - but it would reward
the authors for proving the value of the improvement to the platform. You want
to encourage developers like that. And it's not like Apple are short of cash.

~~~
jws
_…f.lux being free…_

Their web page still says "f.lux is patent pending."

Apple's "Night Shift" is great news for f.lux. If f.lux can get their patent
then the billion dollar target is square in their sights.

I haven't seen anything on what exactly they are trying to patent to guess if
Apple is infringing, but it does appear the f.lux business model is to get
users hooked on white point shifting then profit from the patent.

------
tehwebguy
I would be so much angrier than this post is. Dude thinks they might want to
team up after Apple fucked them in 2x in a row.

~~~
themagician
The reality is that Apple doesn't need them and their company was built on a
single feature. It sucks, but the harsh reality is that most startups today
are just that—features. They aren't companies. They aren't businesses. They
are a missing feature to another product.

Even companies like Spotify become redundant once someone like Apple decides
to get into the game. They can hang on for a while because of their service,
loyal fanbase, or particular implementation–but they can no longer grow. All
of the growth as a result of new users and population growth just ends up
going to the Apple product.

Companies are about growth, and if someone like Apple can throw their hat into
the ring and completely freeze your growth then chances are you weren't really
a company to begin with.

Much of the startup world is based on selling before people figure this out.

~~~
msrpotus
Does Flux have a real business? Do they make any money? Just because they
created something doesn't mean they have a company.

~~~
nimish
It's a closed-source color temperature changer on a timer. I don't think it's
gotten any new features in years, and they didn't patent this feature so sucks
to be them.

~~~
espadrine
Their main page:

> _f.lux is patent pending. Do you make a cell phone, display, lighting
> system, or other cool sleep tech, and want to talk about collaboration?
> Email us: support@justgetflux.com_

------
PhasmaFelis
Why is f.lux struggling so hard to get on iOS, a platform that clearly doesn't
want them, when they _still_ haven't released a version for Android, which is
significantly more friendly and, IIRC, has a larger user base?

My understanding is that an Android version would have to require a rooted
phone to really do everything properly, which is a significant limitation, but
rooting your phone is completely Google-approved and there are plenty of apps
in the Android app store that openly require it. If (not unreasonably) f.lux
is really concerned about reaching users who aren't savvy or interested enough
to root their phones, then a root-only version would be an ideal test case to
encourage Google to open up the API.

------
zippergz
Maybe this is a sidetrack, but is there real peer-reviewed science behind the
stuff f.lux claims? I tried it for a while and noticed no difference
whatsoever (except that photos look like crap when the color balance is so
skewed).

~~~
huac
[https://justgetflux.com/research.html](https://justgetflux.com/research.html)

------
2bitencryption
Question about private api's:

What makes a private api private? Is it merely undocumented, but still usable
in the exact same way as a "public" api? I.e., in my code I invoke it like
normal, but I just need to know the name?

Or do I have to fiddle with the compiled code of my app to get it to call the
instruction location of the otherwise invisible function?

If they were meant to be private, why can't the app, which surely runs in some
underpriviledged mode, be blocked from calling the function, which knows it
itself is privileged?

~~~
TheCoreh
They are usually undocumented/internal calls, not necessarily privileged.

They can't be blocked that easily because the public APIs will necessarily
call the private APIs at some point internally in order to implement their
functionality.

The main reason private API calls are not allowed by Apple is that it would
introduce a lot of app breakage when updating iOS versions. Either that or
Apple would need to manually add hacks to account for specific apps that are
misbehaved. (What Microsoft usually does for important/popular apps)

Security-sensitive calls do require special permissions from the Operating
System, which is usually granted on a process-per-process basis. (Which is why
we only got JIT compilation in WebViews recently, once the WebView process was
separated from the App process thanks to WebKit2)

During the review phase of the App Store submission, Apple will use static
analysis tools to figure out if the App is calling the private APIs. Some
people have successfully used dynamic execution techniques to game that, to
some extent. F.lux attempted to bypass the review issue entirely by shipping
their app as an Xcode project, so you could manually compile it and install on
your iOS device, but got a Cease and Desist from Apple IIRC.

I've read somewhere that Apple has started to take extra measures to further
disallow calling private APIs starting on 9.3, but I'm not sure on the
details.

------
cronjobber
I recently had a need to stop and re-start f.lux (on Windows). I noticed that
it was slow to start and suspected it was accessing the network. Since I had
disabled automatic updates, that was strange.

Switched to process explorer and found f.lux connected to _three_ different
addresses out there on the wild internet.

Fishy, to say the least. You need permanent internet connections to do what
you're ostensibly doing? Replaced it with open-source alternative "redshift".

------
AdamGibbins
What announcement? I missed it.

~~~
crb
iOS 9.3 has a feature called "Night Shift": "Night Shift uses your iOS
device’s clock and geolocation to determine when it’s sunset in your location.
Then it automatically shifts the colors in your display to the warmer end of
the spectrum, making it easier on your eyes. In the morning, it returns the
display to its regular settings."

[http://www.apple.com/ios/preview/](http://www.apple.com/ios/preview/)

~~~
ProAm
So they copied what f.lux did and released it as a homegrown feature?

~~~
llamataboot
[http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sherlocked](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sherlocked)

------
simple10
Here's the related MacRumors article with more info on Apple's Night Shift
app. It's currently available to developers but apparently only runs on iPhone
5s and iPad Air and later.

[http://www.macrumors.com/2016/01/11/apple-ios-9-3-night-
shif...](http://www.macrumors.com/2016/01/11/apple-ios-9-3-night-shift/)

~~~
duskwuff
Minor quibble: Night Shift isn't an app. It's a new OS-level setting, similar
to the Do Not Disturb mode that was introduced in iOS 6.

------
coldtea
Maybe they should try fixing the video glitches one frequently gets whenever
f.lux is enabled on OS X first?

------
qkhhly
While they are spending time fighting on Apple's platform, I wish they'd spend
a bit more time on Linux (Ubuntu) and android platforms. There are large
number of users on those platforms. Their Ubuntu version works OK (not sure
about other Linux variants), but there is no android version.

~~~
rangibaby
Why not use Redshift? It's the same thing as f.lux.

------
erikpukinskis
Makes sense. So many people get up in arms when a competitor starts trying to
do their job. That doesn't make sense to me... There is so much to do, so many
challenges out there to address. If someone wants to do exactly what you're
doing, why not let them? Most people struggle to find a worthy successor. It's
a gift. Take the opportunity to move on to the next phase in your life, which
has a good shot at being even better. You're smarter now, after all.

I know some people feel they only have one good idea in them, but I think that
results from either a) aiming too high on subsequent rounds, or b) phoning it
in. But if you love to work, just start small and you'll avoid both of those
things.

------
tacos
Part of me was hoping they'd let it go. While awareness of this issue is
greater now than it was six years ago, I'm not sure if they've been pushing
this wave closer to shore or merely surfing it.

If this is truly the world health issue they think it is, now that iOS is
taken care of seems like they should focus on Android, TVs and Kindles instead
of begging Apple to let them compete with a built-in feature.

After their last PR push and petition campaign (which landed them on various
media outlets and the HN homepage twice in three days) it took them 7 weeks to
land 5,000 signatures.

I appreciate their passion but talking about cancer, weight gain and acne --
while providing affiliate links to salt lamps and Swarovski crystals -- just
feels weird.

------
willtim
What I find strange is why they developed an iOS version at all, given the
restrictions. They could have provided the top-selling Android version. I had
to give my money to some other clone, I would have much rather given it to the
innovators.

------
nickpsecurity
Made a scene from Pirates of Silicon Valley jump into my mind:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG4DvM0wxdk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG4DvM0wxdk)

"90 hours a week and loving it. Like the T-Shirt? I'm going to give it to my
people. Some of them work even more than 90 hours a week." (Steve Jobs
depiction)

Woz says it's the only accurate one about Jobs and company. So, whether those
words or not, I can only assume jobs worked his people to death to achieve
Apple's success. Other things are consistent with that. Then, I hear they're
"joining" f.lux to help their mission of improving sleep or whatever. Haha...

------
goldenkey
F.lux is great but the root of the problem is the type of backlight that
monitors use. A hardware company ought to come out that produces a decent
monitor with multiple backlight bulbs.

I mean, look at the difference in abrasiveness of spectrum between these bulb
technologies:

[http://housecraft.ca/wp-
content/uploads/2012/09/spectral_res...](http://housecraft.ca/wp-
content/uploads/2012/09/spectral_responses2.png)

Tinting the color using F.lux is helpful but doesn't supplant the boon that a
proper ergonomic monitor would for eye and circadian rhythm health.

------
kaiserama
I would love to have f.lux on my un-jailbroken iPhone. Currently I use
Twilight App on a Nexus by my nightstand during the night because of how harsh
the iPhone screen is in the dark (even with brightness turned down all the
way).

~~~
orik
you can side load it if you still have the code/binary. that's what I've done.

how it updates the screen with notifications is a little hacky though so I'm
glad they are bringing a native implementation.

hopefully this comes to OS X as well.

~~~
notduncansmith
On OS X you can just use f.lux.

------
niels_olson
Nocturne in red mode is far better for sleep conservation. I started using it
over flux because many moons ago I developed an obsession for preserving night
vision while standing watch on the bridges of ships, and can attest that you
can pass out cold while editing a document with Nocturne in red mode.

------
dreamling
That an incredibly gracious post! wow.

------
usermac
For years I've used the accessibility feature to make the home screen invert
the colors when I triple click it. Problem solved.

~~~
usermac
Triple click the home button that is. ^_^

------
hitlin37
Redshift is pretty nice too, if you are on Linux. Unfortunately, f.lux
experience isn't so great on Linux.

------
eridius
> _Today we call on Apple to allow us to release f.lux on iOS, to open up
> access to the features announced this week, and to support our goal of
> furthering research in sleep and chronobiology._

I'm confused, why do they want this? Night Shift does what f.lux does. Apple
opening up the APIs to allow f.lux to run on iOS seems rather pointless, since
the OS is already doing the same thing.

~~~
PhasmaFelis
> _I 'm confused, why do they want this?_

You quoted it yourself: "to support our goal of furthering research in sleep
and chronobiology." F.lux isn't just trying to sell an app. Also, Apple has a
history of releasing user-friendly but very bare-bones, feature-light tools;
f.lux presumably wants the option of releasing a richer app that does things
Night Shift doesn't.

~~~
eridius
From what I understand, Night Shift does basically the same thing as f.lux.
f.lux has been out for years, and I'm not aware of any particularly innovative
changes done to it in that time.

------
milkers
This is just another way to say "Apple, please acquire us".

~~~
Qantourisc
"Please acquire us" I coded an f.lux script that runs in background, and it's
213 lines long. It control the screen brightness and colour tone trough DDC by
running dccontrol once in a while. Hiring him/them would cost more in overhead
then it would cost to write the application.

------
cha-cho
What is the lesson here for the next flux type product creator?

~~~
PhasmaFelis
What is a "flux type product" in this context?

~~~
cha-cho
Any idea or product that enhances an OS interaction and could be easily
integrated into the OS if the vendor just decided they wanted to do so.

------
beatpanda
This, right here, is why I abandoned the Apple ecosystem. When a company has
the kind of control that Apple has with the app store, they will inevitably
abuse it.

~~~
MBCook
This is no different from Microsoft saying "you can't release a program that
calls internal NTFS methods in our app store". Seems fair.

This isn't like Apple saying "No one can make lottery apps", they C&Ded
someone to stop using private APIs and bypassing the app store.

~~~
sirkneeland
It's a bit different because (outside of irrelevant Windows Phone and dead
Windows RT) the MS app store is optional, just one of many mainstream, widely
accepted ways of installing software. Whereas with iOS, if Apple says no App
Store for you it means no access to the iOS customer base.

------
rocky1138
"Please, sir, can I have some more?"

------
s73v3r
Except what would f.lux add on top of what Apple has released? It seems like
Apple already did all the work.

