
How many Apple IDs should your family have? - iProject
http://gigaom.com/apple/how-many-apple-ids-should-your-family-have/
======
junto
I am British but live in Germany. I need two Apple IDs for the same iPad. One
for my UK account and one for a German account because you can only subscribe
to BBC iPlayer Global on non-UK stores. I don't really use the German iTunes
account because Apple forces me to use the store in German, which is viable
but certainly not my personal preference.

Programmers have a bad habit of assuming that country of residence == language
preference.

A worse practice is IP-to-location and then assuming language preference.
Grrrrrr.

Did you know that there are more Catalan speakers in the world than people
that speak Norweigan? I used to live in Spain. All websites assume you speak
Spanish. That must really piss off Catalan speakers, all 11.5 million or so of
them.

~~~
kijin
> _Programmers have a bad habit of assuming that country of residence ==
> language preference._

Ontario here. A few websites have been persistently trying to show me French.
The fact that my dynamic IP sometimes shows up as being in Montreal doesn't
help at all. But some websites just seem to assume that all Canadians speak
French! Luckily, most Anglo-Canadians know by instinct where to locate the
English version. We've been thoroughly trained to do that :)

I wonder what it's like in Switzerland.

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IgorPartola
Ah, there is a huge opportunity for a product here. Someone could make a lot
of money on taking families into account (no pun intended) when providing
"cloud" services. Let me explain through some examples:

My wife and I currently have Android phones. We have several choices for where
we can buy music, apps, books and other content. Almost none of them allow us
to share our purchases. Apps simply cannot be shared (please correct me if I
am wrong on this point). Music can be shared but the process involves (1)
purchasing a song on one of the available music stores, (2) connecting the
phone to a computer, (3) downloading the song from the phone to the computer
(incidentally, the only universal means of creating a backup), (4) connecting
the other device to the computer (5) uploading the song.

Google Music does make things slightly easier. For one, there is less reason
for backups. However, music purchased on one phone still has to end up on
another person's phone via a computer. The situation is worsened by the fact
that on Android your Google account is very deeply integrated into your phone
experience. The only sensible solution I can think of is for us to create a
separate account through which we purchase music, movies, apps, etc.

The situation is a bit better with Apple ID. At least here, as TFA points out,
you can have a setup that allows you to not spend 2x or more on the same
content, but also have individual accounts. However, the length of the article
alone suggests that there is a problem.

The perfect solution would look something like this: a cloud-based drive with
several areas: 1 GB of encrypted storage for private data, 20 GB for music and
book storage, streaming capabilities for all videos. Anything in these areas
should be sharable with a small set of people I choose to share it with. For
example, when I buy a song or an app, it should automatically show up on my
wife's phone. Bonus points for some kind of a parental control system (no rock
n roll for my kids once I have them). Any photo I take should automatically be
uploaded to the encrypted area but also optionally shared with my family. All
the app data should automatically be backed up as well, so that I can continue
using the app on my laptop from where I left off on my phone.

Note, that it is very important to also not share some things by default. For
example, if I want to keep a copy of my private GPG key in the encrypted area,
I do not want to share it with my wife. Another example would be a document
with account numbers from my job: not something my family needs to see.

Obviously this is a tall order. Encryption means no capability to do de-
duplication. Sharing apps is also a bit funky, especially I buy them from a
third-party app store. However, this system would much more closely address
the real-world patterns of how families use smartphones, computers and cloud
storage. Whoever figures this out first will likely make a lot of money.

~~~
EwanG
What I am waiting for is for Apple to come up with a version of an ID that is
"safe" to send out into the world with a handicapped child that is incapable
of doing her own updates, but that would allow the folks doing her care to
ONLY do updates and not purchase items (on purpose or accidentally) that I
will end up having to cover. Of course I find it particularly evil that some
of the Sesame Street apps allow in-app purchases. I haven't seen a company rip
off adults through their children like that since the old Columbia House
Record Club...

~~~
m_eiman
Just remove your credit card info and buy everything using gift card credit
which you add as you need it.

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philwelch
If you're Apple, this article just goes to show what a huge mess Apple IDs
have become. If there was a simple algorithm like "one Apple ID per human
being" and an ability to link family accounts together, that would be great.

~~~
Camillo
I'm a single human being, and unfortunately I need multiple Apple IDs because
you can't use the same ID with multiple countries' stores. :(

~~~
jasonlotito
This.

There is a reason I don't update my apps as often as I would like. It's
because you can't just click update all, enter a password, and be done. No.
You have to be careful when updating.

I cannot believe Apple's QA have _ever_ looked at this element to their OS, or
if they have, they simply don't care at all. And it's these parts that show
how much Apple really cares about its software.

~~~
hrktb
I don't understand, when choosing "update all" doesn't it ask you each of your
apple ID's password in a flurry of separate dialogs labelled with each
account's name, and then update the whole bunch of apps in one round?

~~~
jasonlotito
Yes, until the last part. Unless things have changed in the last couple
months, the last part is where it fails. What happens is, iOS complains that
I'm not in the right store, so I have to got to that store. This is basically
a refresh. But this also means I log out of one store and into another. This
stalls other downloads, and could leave things in a half state. I've had
numerous updates stall where I can't update or delete the app, and I can't use
it either. Then there is a chance that iCloud might get screwed up, and I'll
have to reauthenticate for that as well (I forget where that happens, might be
iTunes).

And let's not mention iTunes.

I hate updating apps.

Let's make it clear: I do not true iOS to do the right thing when I click
update all and enter my passwords. I expect it to do the wrong thing and cause
many problems.

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mgcross
I use one ID for my wife's iPad, my kids' 2 iPods, and my iPad. Rather than
setting up 'stub' Apple IDs for the three of them, I just added additional
email addresses to my ID so that they each have their own Messaging and
FaceTime account.

~~~
warmfuzzykitten
My wife and I share the same Apple ID for our three iPads (don't ask), two
iPhones, two iMacs and one Apple TV. We see each others iTunes music and
iBooks. That can be annoying (my wife has a bejillion apps) but most of the
time it's a benefit. Messaging on the iPhone is not shared, and we haven't
used FaceTime, so can't comment on that. All in all, it works well. I wish we
shared the same Amazon account, so we could read each others' Kindle books
easily (we can still do it by signing out and signing in with the other's
email, but it's a pain) but we started off on the wrong foot there.

~~~
mgcross
I actually just answered within the context of sharing within a family... I
also have my MacBook air, the agency Mac pro I use everyday, an agency iPad
(used for iOS dev and website testing), and my daughters old iPod touch all
using the same Apple ID! I'm really surprised that Apple allows 10 devices to
share one ID. It's saved me a lot of money, but I certainly spend my fair
share of it in the app store (~$300 this year).

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droithomme
I'm not surprised he has those complicated charts in his article. I've dealt
with this issue myself. The quick summary is that all this would go away if
there wasn't customer-hostile DRM and sandboxing in the entire ecosystem the
purpose of which is to control and regulate my access to things I own. This is
never a benefit and always a burden. As it is, I often find it a nightmare to
get my content where I want it and have vowed to use Android only in the
future. i-* was a mistake for me to get involved with.

~~~
Camillo
Actually, only two of those tens of services have anything to do with DRM:
apps and iTunes.

For apps: if you stick to free apps, like most Android users do, the point is
moot. If your family has more than ten devices, buying a second copy of that
$5 app is honestly not a huge burden. If your spouse buys their own apps like
any other adult, you can support up to 18 iPhone-toting offspring total, which
seems reasonable.

For iTunes: I thought it had DRM-free music now? In which case, you can copy
that music on all 200 of your extended family's iPods. What you can't do is
let 200 people buy music in your name, but I don't see why you'd want to.

Everything else is unrelated to DRM. It _is_ a mess, yes, but not for DRM
reasons.

~~~
ken
On the iOS App Stores, everything is region-locked and DRM'd, even those which
are free. Sticking to free apps isn't an opt-out of iOS's DRM.

For example, even though Apple advertises "the App Store", there isn't _an_
App Store. There's one per country. I've seen some cool apps mentioned on
blogs and such that I would love to have, but even if they are free, if I'm
not in the right country, I can't download them.

(Yes, I could probably 'jailbreak' my iPod, or sign up for an Apple ID with a
fake address, or some other nonsense. Doesn't change the fact that Apple's DRM
has such restrictions.)

It seems funny to me that Amazon has no trouble shipping pretty much any item
from any country to any other country, but Apple can't deliver bits across
borders.

~~~
sirn
I don't disagree with your comment, but Amazon _do_ have trouble shipping
items across countries, if I go to Amazon.com right now, 8/15 of their
"recommended" items for me are being marked as "We are not able to ship this
item to your default shipping address." This selection is even narrower with a
country-specific Amazon, e.g. Amazon Japan only ships books and movie DVDs
internationally but nothing else.

------
luchs
iOS should have user accounts. The Apple ID situation is fine for the smaller
devices (iPod touch and iPhone), as they are usually only used by a single
person and Apps can be shared anyways by temporarily logging into another
account.

The iPad, however, is probably more commonly shared among family members. I'd
love to read my mail on our iPad, but I certainly don't want my brother to
read them. And always typing in my password is definitely less convenient than
just waiting for my desktop computer to boot or using my iPhone.

~~~
alanh
Agreed so hard. _(Edit to add: By this I mean I agree strongly. I find this an
amusing phrase, but imagine it might be confusing in writing.)_

It’s difficult not to be cynical about this.

Yes, there are challenges that would need solved to add user accounts:

• Basic UI: how to add switching conveniently and yet unobtrusively?

• Relatively limited storage: What happens when you want to tote 5GB of music
and your family member has 2GB of photos and a 1.1GB game on your 8GB shared
iPad?

And yet, it’s certainly possible. The easy answer is they want everyone to
have their own device because it means more profit for Apple.

I hope it’s on the iOS 6 shortlist.

------
po
Another compounding issue is that for years you could use xxxx@gmail.com as a
valid apple ID but with the release of iCloud they now force you to create a
xxxxx@me.com address for some of the features (although I can't remember which
one). This means that a non-apple email address on your apple id now means
you're a second-class citizen.

To make it extra confusing, apple uses your email address as the way to
identify the apple id but then also give you a way to change the email
address, but only if its not from a me.com address:

<http://support.apple.com/kb/HE40>

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easp
This is currently the weakest link in the overall Apple experience, and it
gets even worse if you want to use, say, Google Contacts and Calendar.

~~~
Drbble
Inconvenience of using non-Apple products is part of Apple's design
philosophy. They have no interest in interoperability beyond what came
accidentally when they used BSD/NEXTStep tech to replace OS 9.

~~~
alanh
That is, strictly speaking, not true.

Trivially so, since you said “no interest.” If they had none at all, why would
they go so far as to actively support non-Apple services?

Relatedly, their aggressive support of the Web as a platform is by definition
interoperable. Their best-in-class mobile browser (or nearly — source:
PPK/Quirksmode) can almost be considered a universal interoperability module.

------
gouranga
None.

No google account, no Facebook account, no windows live ID either.

You should not have to sign up for anything to use your device to its full
potential.

~~~
lotu
So do you host your own email, cloud storage, music streaming, and web site?
Is their a realistic way to have these services with our signing up for an
account?

~~~
gouranga
Email - check - I run my own IMAP/SMTP server (windows based - virtually zero
config). Cloud storage - I use a usb stick in my bag, truecrypt and robocopy.
Music streaming - I use an mp3 player on my phone (which has no cloud
services). Web site - don't need one but I can chuck one on my fibre line for
nothing.

You genuinely dont need those cloud products despite the marketing to the
contrary. Why do people assume that they NEED them?

~~~
johnnyo
Claiming no one needs these things because _you_ don't need these things is
like a four star chef claiming there is no need for diners.

------
Iv
Zero.

