
900 Workers Have Already Died Building Qatar’s World Cup Infrastructure - jonmrodriguez
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/over-900-workers-have-already-died-building-qatars-world-cup-facilities-180950088/?no-ist&1
======
ChuckFrank
Boycott FIFA. Call on the Architects and Engineers to end their working
relationships on the projects. This is outrageous. We know better. It can
start with Ms. Hadid. Speer the Younger and Arup.

[http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/25/zaha-hadid-
qata...](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/25/zaha-hadid-qatar-world-
cup-migrant-worker-deaths)

[http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/german-
architect...](http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/german-architect-
albert-speer-plans-for-the-2022-world-cup-in-qatar-a-836154.html)

[http://www.arupassociates.com/en/case-studies/qatar-
showcase...](http://www.arupassociates.com/en/case-studies/qatar-showcase/)

~~~
contingencies
Holy crap. If I'm not reading this wrong, the German architect in question is
the son of a Nazi architect, _a member of Hitler 's inner circle_. This guy
made his career in such bastions of human rights as the Middle East and China.
Who'd have thunk it? Not looking good for Germany really, is it? Architects
depending on slave labour... runs in the family.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Speer,_Jr%2E](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Speer,_Jr%2E)
(His father was _the Nazis ' principle exploiter of forced labor_.
[http://www.auschwitz.dk/Speer.htm](http://www.auschwitz.dk/Speer.htm))

~~~
bruceb
So if you mother or father is a bad person, then automatically you are. Great
logic.

~~~
contingencies
Heh. Your logic is this
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man)
... I never said that. On the contrary, I believe that each person is
ethically responsible for their actions, direct or indirect. This man and his
father are both guilty.

~~~
rjurney
Actually, you strongly implied that his father being a Nazi somehow influenced
his own behavior. Why bring up his father at all otherwise?

~~~
Crito
Not caring to look myself, did this man's father raise him?

My father certainly influenced my outlook on many aspects of life when he
raised me. I am of course responsible for my own actions, and it is everyone's
responsibility to rise above the shortcomings of their parents, but to ignore
the role a parent plays in their child's development is just silly.

For example, my father is an evangelical christian. I am not. Realizing that
my father is gives a window, however murky, into my development and provides
context for many of my beliefs and convictions.

Noting the similarities between the father and the son gives us potential
insight into the [lack of] moral development of the son.

~~~
phaer
Not too much, except for the first eleven years, Albert Speer Jr. was born in
1934. In 1945 his father got sentenced to 20 years in prison and served until
1966, mostly in Spandau. Wikipedia states that he wrote many letters to his
children from prison but "found himself unable to re-establish his
relationship with his children, even with his son Albert".

------
rayiner
Well this is what happens when you have no worker safety regulations and the
families of the workers are poor Pakistanis and Bengalis that can't file
wrongful death lawsuits. America's support of countries like Qatar will be
remembered in history like our support of the Apartheid regime in South
Africa. These countries treat Pakistanis and Bengalis as de facto slaves.

~~~
krasin
Qatar is one of a few countries which have an exit visa. These workers (en
masse) could not leave the country, even if they want. So, yeah, they are
slaves.

[http://www.moi.gov.qa/PermitForm/PermitFormE.jsp](http://www.moi.gov.qa/PermitForm/PermitFormE.jsp)

~~~
letstryagain
Exit visas? Wow I never knew such a thing could exist. If you are a citizen of
a country you should always be allowed to travel to that country unless you're
arrested for committing a crime elsewhere.

~~~
bruceb
It is a way to check you before you leave. Like a security guard checking your
bag before you leave a store. Do you owe money, have legal trouble, etc. I am
not saying it is right but that is how it is viewed.

------
antonius
This and news that a Qatari firm paid off one of the top FIFA officials for
votes during bidding for the World Cup doesn't help Qatar's image going
forward. [1]

[1] [http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/18/jack-
warner-...](http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/18/jack-warner-fifa-
world-cup-2022-payment-allegations)

~~~
largote
Those news were completely unsurprising.

------
rkalla
Just to put this in perspective, Qatar won the bid in Dec of 2010 -- they are
_literally_ killing 1 worker a day building this.

I spent some time in Dubai and Abu Dhabi and saw this "big money, big
building" craze first hand... it truly is modern day slave labor. No more
thought is put into the migrant workers than you would an extra shovel,
concrete or tile - they are a resource to expend during construction. The
locals don't see them as human, just building material.

------
pasbesoin
I refuse to have anything more to do with professional sports. That includes
the "professional level" university sports. (And -- I am reminded of their
recent, latest round -- the Olympics.)

I'm just one person, but for my part I won't reward nor contribute towards
such behavior.

The next step, I hope, is in my country to strip such institutions of their
tax breaks and tax exempt status. And the perpetually extorted... "public
construction funds" for new stadiums and such nonsense.

I've quite enjoyed playing sports, and I don't begrudge the role of the
spectator. But current circumstances have become extremely distorting; this
extends to the IP lobbying that continues to hamstring technical developments
around media and connectivity.

~~~
trendoid
>I refuse to have anything more to do with professional sports.

Genuine question, what exactly have you stopped doing? I guess not watching
FIFA 2014 world cup is on the list?

~~~
pasbesoin
I haven't attended a game in several years -- although most of my infrequent
attendance had been at others' invitation, anyway.

Although I was never a sports nut, I no longer watch games on TV, at all.
Recently, I told one friend I would not be attending his Superbowl party, this
year. I had the prior year, with some misgivings, because I wanted to see
people.

I did not watch the recent winter Olympics, and I told friends why. I shared
some links to articles describing the outrageous branding practices, among
other things. This seems to have gotten at least some friends thinking about
the matter.

For the fellow who throws the Superbowl party, I specifically shared some
recent reporting both on the ever more apparent link to traumatic brain injury
(including that "Frontline" show and connected reporting) and on the enormous
tax shelter that pro-sports teams have become for their owners. Also the
financial shenanigans around facility financing. He has been reconsidering his
attachment to the game and to other pro sports (including non-US football, aka
soccer).

One friend is an auditor for the Federal government. He has taken the point
that while this is not his specific purview, a lot of public money is, one way
and another, going to line the pockets of specific, well-connected interests.
Being an honest soul, he admits to significant discomfort with this.

I think that most people are basically "fair" and decent people. As they learn
more, they find an increasing distolerance towards stomaching the situation.
And they decide that there are other things they can spend their time, energy,
and money on.

Again, I'm not dumping on sports. I'm communicating my strong dissatisfaction
with what this "sports industry" has become.

~~~
trendoid
Thanks, I would love to see more reporting done on such practices. If you
still have those links you shared with friends, please share them here.

~~~
pasbesoin
Taking a quick look, per what I referenced:

How the NFL Fleeces Taxpayers

[http://www.beyondchron.org/news/index.php?itemid=11877](http://www.beyondchron.org/news/index.php?itemid=11877)

Frontline's "League of Denial:The NFL'S Concussion Crisis" Airs

[http://www.metafilter.com/132838/Frontlines-League-of-
Denial...](http://www.metafilter.com/132838/Frontlines-League-of-DenialThe-
NFLS-Concussion-Crisis-Airs)

And, since I happened across an older mention of this, as well:

[http://www.metafilter.com/124600/Soccer-matchfixing-
probe-68...](http://www.metafilter.com/124600/Soccer-matchfixing-
probe-680-suspicious-games-worldwide)

------
yeukhon
Before we look at 2022, just look at 2014's World Cup.

It is known that the Brazilian government is still behind their schedule
delivering stadiums and basic infrastructure.

Personally, I am proud to say the new NYC Mayor has made an excellent decision
not bidding Winter Olympics ([http://theweek.com/article/index/256746/hosting-
the-olympics...](http://theweek.com/article/index/256746/hosting-the-olympics-
in-new-york-city-is-a-terrible-idea)). Multi-years of preparations before and
after selection is going to take away energy focusing on real domestic-city-
wide issues.

The Beijing 2008 Olympics was a great success given the amount of new stadiums
and infrastructure added. Though the main stadium (Bird Net) was officially,
completely finished sometime around March 2008. London's main stadium was
completed in 2011 and under budget. Clearly if the government really care
about the event, they will everything to stop corruption and prevent delays. I
don't know anything about Brazil's local politic, but press has been
criticizing Brazil government its poor coordination and corruption.

~~~
hristov
Every olympics or world cup is preceded by stories about how construction is
far behind. And in the end, with some exceptions, most olympics and world cups
work out fine.

These labor abuse stories are another issue altogether and a much more serious
one.

~~~
megablast
One day everyone else will start to notice this cycle as well. Look at the
reporting for the recent Sochi games, where the first week was rife with
stories about unready facilities and hotels.

Then, once it starts, everything is forgotten and the sports become the center
piece.

------
trendoid
Vice did a documentary on similar shit happening in Dubai :
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMh-
vlQwrmU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMh-vlQwrmU)

There are so many issues occupying the world currently that I doubt anyone
from governments will raise an eyebrow for 'just 900 deaths over 2 years'.

------
tzs
It's hard to figure out how bad this is because they don't give enough
information about the other projects they compare to.

For instance, they compare to 25 construction worker deaths when preparing
Sochi for the 2014 Winter Olympics. As far as I have been able to find with
some Googling, Sochi officially involved 74000 construction workers, but an
advocacy group for migrant workers says that there were around another 50000
working without permits. Let's take the high figure, and that gives us 1 death
per 5000 workers.

So given 1.2 million migrant workers in Qatar, then if they were as safe as
Sochi workers, we'd expect 240 deaths, so 900 does indeed look like it
indicates they have some major safety problems.

The comparison to 11 who died during the Golden Gate Bridge construction seems
pretty worthless. The FAQ at goldengatebridge.org says it was built by 10
prime contractors and the subcontractors, but also that they don't have any
employment records from any of them so can't say how many workers were
involved. It's also not a good project for comparison because it actually only
had two fatal accidents. The first killed one man. The second killed 10 men,
when a scaffold failed and the safety net did not catch them.

Up until that point, the project had set a record for remarkable safety. The
norm for that kind of project was about one death per million dollars of
construction, so getting that far with only one death was amazing, and even
with all 11, I think they came in quite low. It was a $30 million project, so
30 deaths would have been normal. At that death rate, taking into account
inflation, a project the size of the Qatar FIFA project would have, if safety
was comparable to typical bridge projects at the time the Golden Gate was
built, about 5000 deaths total for the project--which is close to what the
article says they are looking at. However, bridge work is, I think, inherently
more dangerous than much of the FIFA infrastructure work, and I'd hope bridge
work today is more safe than bridge work was when the Golden Gate was built,
so this is consistent with the Sochi comparison. Qatar does indeed to be doing
something very wrong.

Conclusion: something very bad is indeed happening in Qatar.

~~~
Crito
As another data point, there were _no_ deaths during the construction of
London 2012 Olympic Park: [http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2012/hse-olympics-
research.htm](http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2012/hse-olympics-research.htm)

There was a single death during the construction for the 2010 Winter Olympics
in Vancouver, and 10 deaths during construction for the 2008 Beijing Olympics.

[http://constructiondatacompany.com/olympics-world-cup-
constr...](http://constructiondatacompany.com/olympics-world-cup-construction-
worker-deaths/)

 _(As you speculate for Sochi, there may also be reporting issues for the
Beijing Olympics, but that is nothing but speculation on my part. I don 't
believe that the same could be said of the construction projects in UK or
Canada.)_

There is something __really__ wrong going on in Qatar.

------
jamespitts
Forget asking Qatar to kill fewer people, etc. The world should simply force
Qatar to withdraw.

Any number of countries have the infrastructure to support the event and would
be happy to do so without resorting to quasi-slavery.

------
brianmwaters_hn
For me, every work day starts by strapping on a pair of steel-toed boots and a
hard hat, climbing high up some steel structure (usually hundreds of feet),
building an anchor, and rappelling in to get done whatever needs gettin' done.
I think this gives me a different perspective on matters of industrial safety
than the typical Hacker News poster.

Granted, I have never worked in a developing country; neither have I worked in
the United States in the 1930's.

The culture of industrial safety in the United Sates is... interesting, to say
the least. The squeeze for productivity is there for sure, and it sometimes
flies in the face of every employer's claim that "safety is our number one
priority."

This puts the worker square in the middle of the predicament. Pressure,
culture, and, sometimes, a lack of training and equipment creates the worker
who is less-than-dilligent about their own safety. Then, when something does
go wrong, whether it's a real accident, a "near miss," or just a "violation"
that could have escalated but did not, the worker is blamed. Disciplinary
action and firings are commonly heard about. This happens because the employer
gets to point to "safety first," loads of policy, and their entire (huge) HSE
department, while ignoring the fact that the worker was under pressure, mired
in a culture of others behaving exactly the same, and, sometimes, poorly
trained.

I'm talking about the United States in 2014, where we benefit from a history
of labor unions, modern government regulations, two centuries of industrial
experience, incredible technology, and a legal environment that scares the
pants off every employer.

I cannot imagine what these migrant workers in developing countries are going
through. Given the safety statistics we've seen here, can you imagine what the
day-to-day grind is like?

------
trhway
compare to that, Russia starts to look almost like civilized country. Some
displaced people, some unpaid salaries, nothing serious :)

[http://www.bwint.org/default.asp?Index=5192&Language=EN](http://www.bwint.org/default.asp?Index=5192&Language=EN)

~~~
rjurney
Maybe not so much if you count the still-existing North Korean slave camps in
Russia.

[http://mondediplo.com/2006/04/08koreanworkers](http://mondediplo.com/2006/04/08koreanworkers)

------
joesmo
"The world is a place rich in natural beauty and cultural diversity, but also
one where many are still deprived of their basic rights. FIFA now has an even
greater responsibility to reach out and touch the world, using football as a
symbol of hope and integration." \-- FIFA Mission Statement
([http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/organisation/mission.html](http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/organisation/mission.html))

Slavery in this region is nothing new and this choice is abominable on FIFA's
part. This type of treatment is endemic in the region including the UAE. In an
organization that supposedly promotes equality, Qatar and other such nations
should not even be allowed to participate or be members of FIFA. I suppose
money talks loudest, however, mission statement be damned. Not to mention the
"mistake" acknowledged by FIFA's president already of scheduling the world cup
in a country whose average temperatures in June is 81 - 106 degrees
Fahrenheit.
([http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/news/20130909/2022-q...](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/news/20130909/2022-qatar-
world-cup-mistake-sepp-blatter-winter/?sct=obnetwork))

------
TheMagicHorsey
You can get away with a lot of shit if you hold the keys to some petroleum.

------
jonalmeida
There are several similar stories of people not being able to leave the
country, or life threatening situations like this in Dubai. It's a very
similar case there as well with expatriate workers.

------
gregschlom
It's a tragic story, but it doesn't seem a good fit for HN. This is the sort
of story that major media outlets should be reporting, and there's no
technology angle.

~~~
mayneack
As I posted elsewhere, they (TV) aren't.

------
bertil
The question was asked on a different thread earlier today, and I think it
deserves asking here too:

What does this has to do on Hacker News?

Both articles are about groups are the lagging edge of development; both
groups are made exclusively of one gender (although, unsurprising, only the
other one used that aspect to hammer victimisation). Both issues are connected
to an existing hardware technology that could be, but is not of interest to
HN.

I read that kind of article (both) in my daily rotation outside of HN, so I
don’t mind -- but I was wondering if HN commenters had felt the parallel, and
would have reacted the same way on both.

~~~
mayneack
> Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're
> evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or
> disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's
> probably off-topic.

This sounds like an interesting phenomenon in that I assume this wasn't the
case at other recent major sporting events.

As for TV news:
[http://www.msnbc.com/search/world%20cup](http://www.msnbc.com/search/world%20cup)
(nothing) [http://www.foxnews.com/search-
results/search?q=world+cup&sub...](http://www.foxnews.com/search-
results/search?q=world+cup&submit=Search&ss=fn) (nothing)
[http://www.cnn.com/search/?query=world%20cup&sortBy=relevanc...](http://www.cnn.com/search/?query=world%20cup&sortBy=relevance)
(nothing)

I almost didn't even bother with CNN because it was obviously nothing due to
the missing flight.

~~~
bertil
It wasn't covered by TV recently because it's not recent.

