
Iconic: Advanced icons for the modern web - philips
http://useiconic.com/
======
susi22
We need to stop making "open source" icons which aren't actually open source.
Illustrator files are not open enough so that many people can contribute or
edit it to their liking. Look at the FontAwesome github issue page and see how
many open issues there are vs how many pull requests have been sent. Not many,
since few people have Illustrator.

What we need is a DSL (some already exist) and a framework which defines
shapes and forms and which can easily plug things together. Ie. we have _only_
code for all the icons and with a simple "make" run we get our customized
sizes, colors, formats etc..

I've actually worked with Asymptote [1] a lot and it would be very easy (and
elegant) to define them in that framework. Another candidate would be Scala
who can define DSL's elegantly and could use many existing libraries to put
out th EPS. It's sad that people invest $50k on something that is again
flawed: Not editable, not open (truly) sourced, not line-based versioned
(git).

I've been wanting to start something along this way ever since I saw
fontawesome but I don't think I have the time to invest. Maybe some day...

[1] [http://asymptote.sourceforge.net/](http://asymptote.sourceforge.net/)

~~~
dasil003
Here's a thought experiment: can OS X or Windows have a true open source app?

~~~
susi22
I didn't mean to say Illustrator is bad b/c of the not openness but more
because of the file format. Icons ---compared to other projects done with
Illustrator--- are extremely simple and we could use simpler tools instead
which means we can use a programming language (an appropriate one, not python
etc) to define the languages.

As long as we have the source and it is readable (hence my wish to use a DSL)
people _will_ contribute to it with pull request. The result of the
kickstarter will not be contributable (except by a small fraction of people)

This can give you a slight taste of a well done DSL which can produce EPS:

[http://www.piprime.fr/developpeur/asymptote/example-
asy2d/ge...](http://www.piprime.fr/developpeur/asymptote/example-
asy2d/generalites-asy2d/?posts_per_page=-1)

[http://marris.org/asymptote/](http://marris.org/asymptote/)

Asymptote also knows structs and overloading

~~~
bennyg
Yeah but it's actually a lot of fun to design in Illustrator. I don't think
the creators of this icon set would have wanted to do all of this stuff while
not in Illustrator - or at least I can't imagine me wanting to do that.

This is coming from an iOS engineer too.

~~~
susi22
Yeah but it's more fun to click "edit" on a file in github. Propose the
changes and click "submit pull request". Instead of:

1\. Download current design file

2\. Edit

3\. Submit pull request

4\. Repo owner downloads file

5\. Repo owner figures out what has changed (somehow hopefully) and hopes
nothing else was broken with the edit due to different versions, setups etc.

6\. Repo owners accepts pull request (while the change cannot be seen in
github since it can't diff .ai files).

~~~
bennyg
Here's where we differ. Adobe Illustrator is like a canvas on an easel. Visual
manipulations appear right in front of you, and then you can dive in and
inspect. Change a color easily and know if it's right immediately. Not commit,
then look at a rendered version, notice it's off. Try again, commit and then
attempt until it's right. That's a huge waste of time as a designer. It feels
magical to edit and create in Illustrator to me, and I'm sorry that someone
offering free .ai files isn't pristine enough for you.

Your "editing" of a graphic file is still 4 steps, there's not much being cut
out:

1\. Click edit. 2\. Propose changes. 3\. Owner decides nothing is bad, or
messes up other parts of the design. 4\. Owner accepts pull request (still
can't see the files in Github, because there is nothing for viewing graphical
diffs anywhere yet)

~~~
susi22
You can do cool things with immediate updates:

[http://vimeo.com/36579366](http://vimeo.com/36579366)

The great thing about hosting on github is that people can send pull request
and you have real collaboration. That's alsmost impossible with Illustrator
files. In reality many OSS is abondoned and change leaders or simply die. If
you have a source that is accessible by 100% of the programmers (and with
icons there is a huge crows who's interested) then your project probably won't
die.

Want will the kickstarter accomplish? Sure it'll give you great quality icons,
but then what? What if the project is delivered and put open sourced? Is it
going to be maintained indefinitely? For 2 years? 5 years? What about in 10
years? Can we still use it?

But now we're really off topic, I'm just re-elaboration why open source (and
line based source code) is better. I could also argue why documentation in
Markdown is better than word for highly collaborative projects....

------
jrochkind1
So, contrary to some of the discussion here, this icon set is _not_ going to
be free or open source.

It's a bit vague about that, but if you go to the kickstarter page, note:

> _[$35 pledge]: You 'll get the entire icon set when it goes public in 2014.
> This is the least expensive Iconic will be—at least 50% off its price at
> launch. Well done, bargain shopper._

So they're planning on selling it for at least $70.

Or am _I_ confused about something? It is confusing; they need some straight
up explanation of the licensing.

~~~
alternize
it's on the main kickstarter page:

 _" Although this new version of Iconic will be commercial, it's important to
state that the current open source version of Iconic will remain freely
available."_

so the version for which the kickstarter runs will be a new, commercial
version:

\- with a price >$70

\- based/derived on the existing opensource iconic

\- the icons in the opensource version will receive an update if they are also
in the new commercial version

what i really miss tho is what kind of commercial license the backers/buyers
receive for their backing.

~~~
finnh
But what is the current open source version of Iconic?

If you click "Get Iconic", you are directed to the kickstarter page. No actual
download anywhere that I can see.

~~~
susi22
One of the members of waybury.com is this dude with this repo:

[https://github.com/somerandomdude/Iconic](https://github.com/somerandomdude/Iconic)

------
pirho
The current cohort of web browsers is the first to feature universal support
for SVG: [http://caniuse.com/#search=svg](http://caniuse.com/#search=svg)

~~~
rurounijones
But since a large number of people are still using old browsers (IE and
Android[1] specifically spring to mind) excluding them still seems like a no-
go and makes these icons much less desirable for commercial sites.

They are extremely cool though, I love the animation and styling especially.
The grunt integration looks great too. These really look like icons to make
developers / designers happy

[1] Approx 30% of android users are still using < 3.0
[http://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html](http://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html)

[EDIT] At risk of side-tracking things, I am not sure on their stance on the
"save" icon

~~~
nailer
What's their save icon?

↓

-

(with less spacing - HN formatting is odd)

...seems to the current thinking elsewhere.

~~~
ajanuary
[http://dribbble.com/shots/1020838-Save-Icon-
Concept](http://dribbble.com/shots/1020838-Save-Icon-Concept) is my favourite
of the ones I've seen.

~~~
mbesto
> _The floppy disk icon is outdated._

I don't get this sentiment. Just because we think its outdated doesn't negate
it's utility. If ain't broken, don't fix it.

~~~
rurounijones
That is basically my thinking. The link to a page where a designer opines
about how the Radiation and biohazard are great symbols because they are no
understandable on first glance, memorable and need to be taught.

Just like a floppy symbol. If you are young you wont understand it and need to
be taught the meaning, the only possible part is the "memorable" test
but...well, opinions and all.

~~~
dasil003
Sorry I missed something. Why does not being understandable on first glance
make for a great symbol?

~~~
rurounijones
I have no effing idea, but the designer praised those three qualities. Maybe
no pre-conception?

------
untilHellbanned
I'm super happy for Iconic but I kinda feel bad for its predecessors such as
FontAwesome. FA did their work for free and produced a larger and equally high
quality collection. I donated to FA and think they've raised $3,000 in 2
years. Iconic has raised $50,000+ in 2 weeks.

update: here's the gittip page for FontAwesome creator, Dave Gandy.
[https://www.gittip.com/davegandy/](https://www.gittip.com/davegandy/)

------
edwintorok
I don't think I want icons with javascript in them:
[http://useiconic.com/concepts/smart-
icons/](http://useiconic.com/concepts/smart-icons/)

~~~
rurounijones
Completely optional, you do not need them for the base icon, only if you want
to do spiffy things with them.

~~~
hrjet
But their website doesn't render the styled icons with javascript turned off.
I think it is a bit misleading for them to say "CSS based SVG styling".

------
MarkMc
Another free pictogram icon set, and which I find more attractive:

[http://www.entypo.com/](http://www.entypo.com/)

~~~
robmclarty
I love Entypo. I think their solid black shapes and subtle, stylish forms make
their set of icons hard not to use.

I'm not sure how I feel about animated/interactive icons like Iconic is
proposing. I feel that icons should be very simple and single-purposed: that
is, labelling information, acting as a signpost. But I'm intrigued to see what
happens.

------
ChikkaChiChi
Clicked through looking for a download and all I got was a Kickstarter shill.
I'm disappointed.

------
xux
I'm very impressed with the audio visualization at the bottom:
[http://useiconic.com/concepts/smart-
icons/](http://useiconic.com/concepts/smart-icons/)

Well done. Consider it sold. I'm using it for my site.

------
digitalengineer
How about no icons? Could we kill the icon? "Imagine letting go of the Xerox-
inspired GUIs altogether. Imagine a native digital medium, instead of holding
onto physical entities. It’s not going to be easy; but it will be the future
of the UI. Contextually aware, transparent user interfaces is what we should
strive for." [http://joecritchley.svbtle.com/kill-the-
icon](http://joecritchley.svbtle.com/kill-the-icon)

~~~
prof_hobart
From that article.

"How would user interfaces look if we had no preconception of their analogies?
No magnifying glasses for search; no cogs for settings. And then, with that
tweet, I realised I had unintentionally focused on icons. It’s icons that are
still the problem."

He seems to be making a leap I don't follow there. Why is the use of
magnifying glasses/cogs a problem? Who are they a problem for? My 70 year old
mother knows what they mean at a glance, as does my 7 year old daughter, and I
doubt that many people in between struggle with their meaning.

Pictures often have more impact, and more visual appeal, than words. If I have
to do a presentation and I create one that's nothing but words, my audience
will typically be far less engaged than if I'd replaced most of the words with
other visual clues.

And the same applies to icons. A big green tick is more immediate than a
button with "OK" on it. I can spot a cog much more quickly in a screen than
the word "settings" buried in a screen full of other words.

So what problem is "no icons" trying to solve?

~~~
rytis
Does your 7 year old daughter know what a floppy disk icon does? I bet she
does. Does she know what the floppy disk is though? Mine doesn't (12y/o). She
just knows that she needs to click it if she wants to save a file in an
editor. Might as well draw a random squiggle and call it "save".

~~~
Alexx
That's exactly why icons are useful.

You speak and read english because you're brought up with it around you. You
don't need to know the latin roots for a word to understand it's meaning. The
root meaning of an icon is not important, just the fact that it's a 'random
squiggle' that is universally recognised regardless of context is it's
strength.

You can remove all icons and just replace them with words such as 'save', but
now you must translate them for all languages, and scanning for the word is
slower.

However, interfaces packed with random icons which have no recognisable
meaning - that is a terrible anti-pattern.

~~~
rytis
Yes, I agree, icons are much faster to recognise than words. But I think we're
limited to only a handful of icons that are universally (??) recognisable. And
now more often than not I find hovering mouse pointer over an icon just to
find out what it does. How easy is to guess what these 3 icons do if you never
used the tool before [http://imgur.com/TclsCh2](http://imgur.com/TclsCh2) ?

~~~
mbesto
> _But I think we 're limited to only a handful of icons that are universally
> (??) recognisable._

Wouldn't you argue that the floppy disk _is_ a universally recognizable icon
for saving? It's hardly misconstrued for something else, and with the
exception of youth, it does make sense (without using it before) to a majority
of the population.

------
quchen
Is there an overview of all the icons included somewhere?

~~~
ollysb
[http://useiconic.com/design/](http://useiconic.com/design/) seems like
there's more on the way though

------
jkscm
Looks cool but I can't find any information on the license or other usage
conditions. I would love to use these in an open source project.

~~~
radiac
I agree. They're open source at the moment, and they've been my icon set of
choice for some time - I use them in my open source RSS reader, django-yarr,
for example. In fact I came to the comments to complain about how there is
already an icon set with that name, before I realised it's the same guy.

I understand why they're going for commercial licensing on top of the
kickstarter, but it's a real shame if the new icons never make it into the
open source project. I'm more than happy to pay for them if I'm using them
commercially, but it would have been good if one of their stretch goals had
been setting a chunk of money aside to feed the new icons back into the open
source version for people to use in their projects.

------
arnley
It reminds me of Livicons
[http://livicons.com/#promo3](http://livicons.com/#promo3) with its 353
animated icons that are also compatible with IE6+

What livicons lacks seems to be the semantic styling that Iconic offers.

------
rrrx3
Was really excited, then saw that they're going to charge for it. Total
horseshit. That's not open source. WTF.

------
thwarted
It seems that middle click to open the button-links down the bottom of the
page doesn't work (Chrome, Linux). Right-click open-in-new-tab works, though.
Why do people break this?

------
nijiko
Come back when you have around 1,000 icons. THEN you will be usable.

------
reledi
A list of other icon resources:
[https://gist.github.com/dideler/1718200#icons](https://gist.github.com/dideler/1718200#icons)

------
chrisrickard
I came here to say: Great work. I'm impressed, intrigued - and thought I would
see more positive comments here.

------
daGrevis
Link to Kickstarter: [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/207474036/iconic-
advance...](http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/207474036/iconic-advanced-
icons-for-the-modern-web)

------
edem
The "Get Iconic" link does not work on Chrome.

~~~
daGrevis
Works for me on Chromium.

Edit: Sadly, the page is down now.

------
jff
[http://i.imgur.com/Gg2wmKS.png](http://i.imgur.com/Gg2wmKS.png) ugh don't do
this please

------
deviltry
SVG clock icon with JavaScript is a very nice idea - showing clock icon near a
post with arrows showing real time when post was made. Epic.

~~~
gokhan
What's wrong with "10 minutes ago"? Less cognitive load, and goes well with
dates > 12 hours ago.

------
AsymetricCom
Are these compatible with the cloud and iOS7?

