
In the Future, We’ll All Wear Spider Silk - anthotny
http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/in-the-future-well-all-wear-spider-silk
======
toufka
Not only is the material made from water, sugar and heat instead of oil
(compared to synthetic fabrics), but it also comes from a known genetically
encoded template. That genetic template can be varied by an atom here or an
atom here with the the flip of a genetic bit. It can even encode additional
biological functionality into the fabric itself.

Recombinant silk is a pretty cool platform upon which an entire industry can
rationally and rapidly tune the properties of new fabrics.

Play with the protein, ADF3, orb-weaver dragline silk
[https://serotiny.bio/notes/proteins/adf3/](https://serotiny.bio/notes/proteins/adf3/)
from Dan's original paper:
[http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/msb.2009.62/full](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/msb.2009.62/full)

~~~
Razengan
I love reading about news of technology like this. Makes me feel like we're
getting a step, even if an infinitesimal one, closer to the world of Numenera,
where science is, effectively, magic.

[https://torment.inxile-entertainment.com](https://torment.inxile-
entertainment.com)

------
aetherson
The last time I commented on an article about Bolt Threads, it was June 4,
2015, and the articles said that Bolt expected its products to be available in
2016. I was skeptical.

Article here: [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-03/a-bay-
are...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-03/a-bay-area-startup-
spins-lab-grown-silk) HN thread here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9659712](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9659712)

I guess that technically they're just a little late, but honestly an ultra-
limited run of ties without any impressive spidersilk properties makes me
think that not a lot has changed in the last almost-two-years.

We'll see if Bolt can actually make a real serious product. As the article
points out, there have been a lot of swings at this particular pitch.

~~~
dmix
They still seem to have capital to operate and seem to be following through
with a sale: [https://ties.boltthreads.com/](https://ties.boltthreads.com/)

"5-years in the making" is a long time. But I'm not sure the entire process
was a failure. They probably have some excellent domain knowledge of value to
many bigger firms as a fallback.

------
protomyth
I take it the writer of the headline has not met the Cotton Lobby in the US.
We should all be wearing hemp, but they are quite good at their job. North
Dakota grew hemp during WWII, but getting it legal again is a pain in the
rear. I'm sure spider silk will have a bit of problems too.

~~~
guelo
I don't know if it is necessarily true but the hemp fabrics I've felt have
been stiff and scratchy.

~~~
Neliquat
Thats just the unprocessed hippie shit. Thank you stereotypes.

------
agentgt
I'm sort of pessimistic. I don't think we will ever have a perfect single
textile material. A mixture of materials is more likely.

Just because something is light and super strong does not make it comfortable.
Otherwise we would all be wearing nylon all the time (or some derivation...
nylon is super strong and of course there is Kevlar as well).

The problem is nylon is pretty damn uncomfortable.

I remember seeing something on PBS where they showed spider silk and I admit
it seemed compelling and I can easily see it probably mixed in with other
textile yarns.

Of course why stop at spiders and not modify geese, goats, and sheep for their
incredible and generally efficient fabric production.

Synthetics still have a hard time beating goose down for warmth. Is spider
silk going to be better for high loft? I doubt it.

~~~
Razengan
Other than optimal temperature, what does the human skin need to feel
"comfort?"

Would the below work?

[ Body | A layer of comfortable fabric that is only a few atoms thick |
Pockets of air | A layer of light+strong magic material like spider silk ]

and nanobots embedded throughout the clothing that sense your skin's
temperature and heat/vent the air pockets accordingly.

~~~
agentgt
> Other than optimal temperature, what does the human skin need to feel
> "comfort?"

Water... Humidity control and water transport is a huge aspect.

This is why wicking is a big deal for base layers. And there is different
types of wicking as well: moving to the next layer or just absorbing the
water. There are pros and cons to both methods. The synthetics usually
transport moisture... but this really sucks if your outer layer is waterproof
which is often the case.

This is one of the many reason why wool is often used as a base layer. Wool
has great humidity control via absorption with out loss of temperature. Some
fabrics via absorption become like heat sink conductors (cotton) and others
like neoprene (wool).

Otherwise you get chaffing, extreme heat loss, fabric freezing to skin,
difficult to dry among other things... there is hackneyed expression that
hikers have: cotton kills.

However wool can only absorb so much water. One of the fundamental problems is
that it is really hard to create breathable fabric and waterproof fabric
(despite gore-tex marketing claims).

But yeah if you had nanotech adjusting to heat/cold and water... sure it would
be possible.

~~~
Arizhel
>This is one of the many reason why wool is often used as a base layer.

Wool is itchy and scratchy. Lots of people hate wool.

>there is hackneyed expression that hikers have: cotton kills.

Yes, cotton is terrible as a base layer. That's why high-quality hiker's socks
have a lot of nylon, the thing you claim in another post is "pretty damn
uncomfortable". My hiking socks aren't uncomfortable at all.

~~~
agentgt
> Wool is itchy and scratchy. Lots of people hate wool.

And synthetics stink like crap after short use. Today's Merino Wool is not as
scratchy as yesteryear (e.g. smartwool, icebreakers, etc).

> Yes, cotton is terrible as a base layer. That's why high-quality hiker's
> socks have a lot of nylon, the thing you claim in another post is "pretty
> damn uncomfortable". My hiking socks aren't uncomfortable at all.

Nylon is fantastic for feet particularly if mixed with other fabric. DarnTough
and Smartwool use a merino nylon mix.

Your feet are different than the rest of your body and my previous comment was
alluding to 100% nylon.

If you think a 100% nylon shirt is comfortable (or even warm for that matter)
I must admit I will be amused.

~~~
Arizhel
>Your feet are different than the rest of your body and my previous comment
was alluding to 100% nylon.

>If you think a 100% nylon shirt is comfortable (or even warm for that matter)
I must admit I will be amused.

Tons of women seem to have no problem with nylon hosiery. And tons of men are
now wearing fairly similar "baselayer" leggings made of nylon.

~~~
agentgt
> Tons of women seem to have no problem with nylon hosiery. And tons of men
> are now wearing fairly similar "baselayer" leggings made of nylon.

And there are tons of women that do find it uncomfortable. In fact I don't
know of a single woman that enjoys being in nylons all day.

As for men wearing nylon leggings (which I assume non hosiery but for active
wear) it is a blend of fabrics. Usually it is a mixture of nylon, spandex,
polyester maybe some wool. To be honest spandex is more of the key component
(not by total % but giving it the stretch) in leggings these days.

EDIT your reference to yoga pants/tights is amusing but you do know that yoga
pants/tights aren't made of 100% nylon?

They are made just like work out leggings which _might_ have nylon as
component. The key ingredient for tights these days is _spandex_ and not
nylon.

~~~
Arizhel
>In fact I don't know of a single woman that enjoys being in nylons all day.

Maybe you aren't talking to the right ones then. Considering how many young
women I see dressed casually in tights these days, apparently a lot of people
do like them. If you're talking about business-wear, it's probably because
business-wear in general isn't very comfortable; men's suits are horribly
uncomfortable too, so I imagine women's business skirts and jackets are just
as awful. If you want to see what's comfortable (or at least not horribly
uncomfortable), look at what younger people are wearing away from the
workplace.

~~~
agentgt
Your reference to yoga pants/tights is amusing but you do know that yoga
pants/tights aren't made of 100% nylon?

They are made just like work out leggings which might have nylon as component.
The key ingredient for tights these days is spandex and not nylon.

> If you're talking about business-wear, it's probably because business-wear
> in general isn't very comfortable; men's suits are horribly uncomfortable
> tooa

Men's suits made with wool are not uncomfortable unless we are talking extreme
heat. They are silk lined and the wool is ultra fine. Is it as comfortable as
cotton? maybe not.. but is for damn sure more comfortable than 100% nylon. I
remember thinking men's biz wear was uncomfortable when I was younger and
bought crap.

> so I imagine women's business skirts and jackets are just as awful

They are worse. I won't go into the details but women's clothing is more
volume based than quality. Also almost all men's dress clothes are tailored
and it is rare for women's clothes to be tailored.

You know what is uncomfortable that is apparently casual these days is
"skinny" anything. Skinny jeans are damn uncomfortable.

~~~
Arizhel
>Your reference to yoga pants/tights is amusing but you do know that yoga
pants/tights aren't made of 100% nylon?

Actually, no, I'm talking about tights, not yoga pants. If I had meant yoga
pants, I would have written that. Tights are just thicker versions of women's
pantyhose.

>The key ingredient for tights these days is spandex and not nylon.

Untrue; go look at the labels. Spandex is usually in the single-digit range as
a percentage, and never more than 15% from what I've seen. I guess you could
call it a "key ingredient" like egg is an essential ingredient many baked
goods, even though it's a small portion of the overall volume, while the
majority is wheat flour. But no one makes anything out of mainly spandex; it's
added in as a small component for its extremely elastic properties.

>You know what is uncomfortable that is apparently casual these days is
"skinny" anything. Skinny jeans are damn uncomfortable.

Tons of young people seem to disagree with you. Most likely, they have spandex
added. It probably also helps a lot to not be fat.

~~~
agentgt
> Actually, no, I'm talking about tights, not yoga pants. If I had meant yoga
> pants, I would have written that. Tights are just thicker versions of
> women's pantyhose.

Well I admit it seems I have mixed up the word tights. Apparently tights can
mean hosiery.

I meant the black pants you see around college campuses. They don't wear
skirts with them but I suppose skirts can be worn.

> I guess you could call it a "key ingredient" like egg is an essential
> ingredient many baked goods

Yes that is exactly what I meant.

They make cotton spandex leggings.

> Tons of young people seem to disagree with you. Most likely, they have
> spandex added. It probably also helps a lot to not be fat.

Hmm I'll make sure to put on my nylon spandex pajamas on tonight.

When I google lounge wear there seems to be trend of things being"relaxed"
fit... which seem to be loose. Even the term "relaxed" sort of implies
comfort.

The main reason why they put nylon in anything is to make the garment stronger
and not for comfort.

------
nathankot
One of my friends works at a Japanese company called spiber, I think they made
a jacket out of spider silk:

[https://www.wired.com/2015/12/the-north-faces-moon-parka-
is-...](https://www.wired.com/2015/12/the-north-faces-moon-parka-is-spun-from-
faux-spider-silk/)

~~~
Mindless2112
> North Face Will Start Selling Parkas Made from Fake Spider Silk for $1,000
> [1]

...a bit pricey at this point. Maybe spider-silk-enhanced fabrics would be
more reasonable.

[1] [http://fortune.com/2016/05/11/north-face-fake-spider-
silk/](http://fortune.com/2016/05/11/north-face-fake-spider-silk/)

------
davidgerard
Any other Worm readers here?

#skitterasaservice

~~~
xuva
Some evangelism in case someone else happens to have a thing for ridiculously
long, ridiculously well-written works of fiction:
[https://parahumans.wordpress.com/](https://parahumans.wordpress.com/)

~~~
andrewflnr
I forget how Eliezer Yudkowsky phrased it, but it's appropriate at this point
to give a warning like "do not start reading this unless you have a couple
weeks in which to not stop." It's the most intense thing I've ever read, and
the stakes just get higher and higher and...

------
buzzybee
Can it be made resistant to pest bugs like the clothesmoth or carpet beetle?
That would be nice(and in some respects, already possible if you use only
synthetic fabrics).

------
passiveincomelg
except for vegans i guess

