

Microsoft's tablet - Arsene
http://gizmodo.com/5365299/courier-first-details-of-microsofts-secret-tablet#

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rbanffy
This should not be here because:

a) it's not a product

b) it's not even a prototype

c) it's from last September (and thus is not news)

d) nothing has been heard since (it's dead)

e) it's resurrected every time there is buzz about an Apple tablet - wonder if
MS's PR has anything to do with it.

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fnid
first sentence of the article: _Courier is a real device, and we've heard that
it's in the "late prototype" stage of development._

So It's at _least_ a prototype

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rbanffy
Yeah, right. Like WinFS, I suppose, or the Windows Vista that got shown at PDC
2003...

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danw
Editorializing the headline, no thank you. "Microsoft Courier tablet designs
leaked" or the original "Courier: First Details of Microsoft's Secret Tablet"
would have been better.

From the guidelines:

 _You can make up a new title if you want, but if you put gratuitous editorial
spin on it, the editors may rewrite it._

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10ren
If they had an actual prototype, that's what they'd be showing, instead of a
mockup, yes?

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rbanffy
And a non-working mock-up at that.

If we wanted to get fancy, they could call it a "mass simulator". All it does
is simulate the device's shape and mass.

When it is not just a CGI model, that is.

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GiraffeNecktie
How old does an article have to be before we can stop calling it "news"? And
the corollary: Is there any theoretical limit to the number of times it can it
appear on Hacker News before it starts looking a little stale?

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joezydeco
I still get this odd whiff of Microsoft pulling out the old playbook and doing
a "we're working on this too!" FUD maneuver, knowing Apple was working on
something similar.

Remember Pen Windows?

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WorkerBee
Microsoft generally are "working on this too" - they're a big company, and
spend a lot on research. Hot research topics aren't that hard to spot. Whether
it comes to delivering anything commercially is a different matter.

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rbanffy
Yes, but the coincidence is funny. These imaginary products always appear when
some competitor is about to launch something that may threaten Microsoft's
mindshare.

BTW, is Project Natal shipping?

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WorkerBee
I would have phrased that as "These research projects always get surfaced when
some competitor is about to launch something.." otherwise, yeah, it's about
publicity and mindshare.

 _BTW, is Project Natal shipping?_

I don't know, but they are hiring.

~~~
rbanffy
No... Apple didn't call the Knowledge navigator a research project. This too
shouldn't be misrepresented as one.

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piramida
The only question is -- can they also create a user experience to match
Apple's. That would basically mean software which should be extremely
intuitive, simple, and to the point, where touch features don't feel as an
afterthought on a solid OS.

We will have to see whether Windows derivative tablet OS is capable of
supporting tablet form better than it does for mobiles/smartphones, to try and
match Mac OS's versatility. If it does not, then no matter how good the
hardware is, it will still be a number 2.

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nazgulnarsil
why don't any of the tech journalists gushing over designs seem to grasp this?
we already have tablet interfaces that haven't taken off because they suck.
they're unintuitive buggy messes. whomever solves this first wins,
_regardless_ of the hardware.

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rbanffy
You do remember the Newton, right?

Or the Momenta?

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jimbokun
Mentioning the Newton makes me think of how Microsoft still seems obsessed
with handwriting/pen interfaces. This may be a generational thing. There seems
to be an assumption that the average person finds writing with a pen the most
natural way to record information. But I bet there are a lot of us now who
spend more time typing on a keyboard than writing with a pen. I found myself
surprised, for example, when the user hand-wrote a URL in the browser app to
go to a page. Hand-writing a URL is a pretty foreign experience, except in
those rare cases when I need to remember a URL and I'm away from a computer
(and I can't remember the last time I actually did that).

Your comment also got me Googling for the Simpson's clip that was pretty much
the Newton's tombstone. But I found the video introducing the Newton at the
bottom of this page more interesting:

[http://technabob.com/blog/2007/07/20/classic-apple-moment-
ne...](http://technabob.com/blog/2007/07/20/classic-apple-moment-newton-
handwriting-recognition/)

One interesting thing is that it is clear that the Newton was struggling to
find a way to move data around before the dawn of the world wide web. You can
print! Or fax! At least, you can the next time you are physically next to a
device. Or you can "beam" something who happens to be in close proximity. Er,
if they also have a Newton.

The fact that literally half of the intro video is devoted to getting the
handwriting recognition to work correctly, though, is certainly ominous. It
indicates that the hand-writing interface was not as intuitive as they had
hoped.

Which brings us back to Microsoft and pens. I wonder if the vision for tablet
computing was born out of Gates and his generation's familiarity with hand
writing and inherently assuming that the average person is more comfortable
with it than keyboards, and not updating those assumptions for the current
generation who spend far more time updating their Facebook status on a
keyboard than taking notes in class (assuming they don't use a laptop for
that, too).

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xcombinator
"There seems to be an assumption that the average person finds writing with a
pen the most natural way to record information."

This is a valid assumption, writing with a pen IS the most natural way for
humans to record information, this includes drawing figures(how do you draw
sketchs with a keyboard?).

The problem is that machines don't have a brain and find very difficult to
decode pen writing, the first that solve this problem will win a lot of fans.

PS: I type very fast, but I don't like the keyboard as much as pen.

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jsz0
I am almost completely unable to write anymore. I've been typing for 2/3rds of
my life and haven't done any serious pen writing for the last 15 years. I'm
sure with some practice I could get used to it but I don't see a need.
Keyboards are just more natural to me. I learned to write English and spell
via QWERTY. In fact I don't really know how many words I type are spelled. I
just know what sequence of key-presses are required to make them. My
understanding of grammar is tied to the ability to quickly edit. It's trial &
error grammar. Sometimes I have to type something out a few times to determine
what is proper grammar or at least passable as a coherent sentence. I've
noticed when I do write with a pen my spelling & grammar skills revert to the
level they were at when I stopped writing 15 years ago. (significantly worse)

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xcombinator
OK, that's right. But think for a moment the quantity and quality of the
restrictions that needing a keyboard imposes:

-It is a big thing that requires a lot of space. -It is slow to learn. -It makes sound. -Gets dirty. -You can't write with emotions, or tone, nuances are lost.

On a laptop, makes it really difficult to rotate the screen(I'm writing on a
rotated laptop right now, if you try it you will be slow at first, but I'm
faster this way).

I'm experimenting with my own sound recognition programs and note taking, I
thing that is the future. IMHO we will talk with computers, and the children
of your children will see keyboards as awkward as they are.

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elblanco
As things like the XBOX 360 and the various MS mice show, MS hardware is
actually pretty good. They seem to keep hitting failure when the dev an
interesting hardware platform and just license it out (list is too long to
write here).

They need to just make this themselves.

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rbanffy
I love the natural keyboards. The mice are decent and the Softcard in my Apple
II still boots, but saying the Xbox 360 is creat hardware is ignoring its
alarmingly high death rate.

Still, MS hardware is good. Too bad they insist to be a software company.

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jsz0
It's an interesting alternative to the more conventional tablets coming out
next year. Knowing Microsoft they wouldn't actually release this because it
might threaten all the Windows licenses they are selling on net books. They
wouldn't want to take the risk of creating a new market when there's a chance
another company could come along and do it better on a more or less equal
playing ground. If this was any other company I'd be excited about this device
but I just don't think Microsoft has what it takes from a business perspective
to launch a new class of mobile device.

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rlm
A bit old, no?

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rbanffy
Well... We have tablets since the early 90's...

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rlm
The article :-)

And nothing new about Courier has come since then.

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rbanffy
It seems the vapor in the vaporware dispersed.

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WorkerBee
only 3 months later? I'd give it at least another 3 with no news before
calling it "an abandoned line of research".

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rbanffy
They will certainly show something (that will never ship) on CES, trying to
steal some of Apple's thunder.

It's not a hard device to fake - just glue two 10-inch tablets with a fake
interface and off you go. It would be good enough to show on TV.

If I were Jobs, I would not announce a tablet after CES and watch how that
confuses Microsoft PR people.

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WorkerBee
_If I were Jobs, I would not announce a tablet after CES and watch how that
confuses Microsoft PR people._

Jobs, on the other hand, probably cares more about his own business than about
confusing Microsoft PR.

~~~
rbanffy
That's why he is Jobs and I am myself ;-)

Apple is in much better hands than mine.

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mixmax
Interesting to see how they were, well let's say inspired, by the Iphone. The
pinch thing is the most obvious giveaway.

It's even more interesting to see that they don't get _why_ the Iphone was
designed the way it was. It's all about simplicity and form follows function.
There's nothing in the iphone's design that doesn't absolutely have to be
there. There's no clutter. When you look at the courier it's obvious they
haven't grasped this.

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jimbokun
"It's all about simplicity and form follows function."

In the demo, there were a lot of actions where I did not understand the
underlying UI philosophy. Flicking from one application to another (how are
the apps spatially related to each other?). Flicking a person's entry onto a
todo list to give him access (why doesn't it email it to him, or some other
action?). The "pinch" seems to do different things in different contexts, and
I'm not sure what ties them together. I get that she was taking photos at one
point, but is holding up a book form factor to take a picture going to work
ergonomically? And then pressing the button to snap the photo, do you have to
balance this open book form factor with just one hand so you can press the
button with your other hand?

On the other hand, during the original iPhone demo, I kept thinking "of
course!" It was clear that Apple had created an entire, consistent UI
philosophy for operating a mobile device with just the fingers on one hand,
while holding it in the other.

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NathanKP
I had to love one of the comments from the article:

 _Glass on glass = Dirt rubbing/scratching madness.

When it's off the screen will look like the back of an iPod Classic._

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briguy77
I do not think that a Microsoft product mockup (or one produced by a company
working for MS) would use Google Maps.

