
Amae: Japan’s deep connection to childish relationships - vo2maxer
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20191212-japans-deep-connection-to-childish-relationships
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quelltext
Reddit is apparently better at figuring out that this is classic Nihonjinron:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/japan/comments/eau0cx/japans_deep_c...](https://www.reddit.com/r/japan/comments/eau0cx/japans_deep_connection_to_childish_relationships/)

I do think that identifying this behavior makes sense, but it's definitely not
a uniquely Japanese thing[1] (just like tatemae, uchi/soto) and I'm sure there
are existing terms for these phenomena. I'm not saying there isn't a Japan-
specific _aspect_ to it, but I'd rather learn about what that is than being
described a rather generic behavior and link it to Japan.

I mean all these concepts were introduced by a single person and there's IMO
so far been little deeper research into it.

[1] The article tries a little bit to not make that point but Doi says so...
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anatomy_of_Dependence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anatomy_of_Dependence)

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paganel
Yeah, I could sense there is something wrong with the article as soon as I got
to the part where the Japanese were portrayed as this unique society where you
need to say "excuse me" before approaching a stranger on the street asking for
directions. I live in an Eastern European capital, a place that is seen as a
lot more "abrasive" compared to how Japan is seen in articles like this one,
and most people will definitely ignore you were you to come to them asking for
directions without showing some sort of politeness before.

To say nothing of the part with crying kids that become needy and less
adventurous if the parents don't come to their side immediately, that really
came out of nowhere, sounded like 100% pop-science (which most of the child-
related psychology studies really are, to be honest).

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derf_
_> the Japanese were portrayed as this unique society where you need to say
"excuse me" before approaching a stranger on the street asking for
directions._

I agree that part is not really unique, but if you are an obvious foreigner
and stare at a map in a train station for more than a few seconds, a stranger
will come up and ask _you_ if you need directions. Maybe it is just people who
want a chance to practice their English, or something (since they all have to
learn it in school, but do not get a lot of chances to use it in daily life).
However, I have literally had someone walk me halfway across the station and
wait with me on the platform to personally see me get on the right train,
during the middle of commuter rush hour, even though it was not the way she
was going at all. That kind of stuff only happens to me in Japan, and it
happens to me there repeatedly.

Of course, in the modern cellphone era, navigating Japan is not the imposing
challenge for foreigners that it once was.

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magduf
Yep, I was there earlier this year and I never had anyone offer to help me
with directions, but that was probably because I never had a map, and was
using my cellphone to get around, and never looked lost. It's so easy with a
SIM card and Google Maps.

But when I had a problem using an automated bikeshare machine in Kanazawa,
some guy and his girlfriend were more than helpful, even calling the bikeshare
place on his phone to work out the problem.

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gryson
While there may or may not be an element of Nihonjinron to this idea in
general, I think people are intentionally taking parts of the article out of
context as justification to dismiss it outright.

I mean, here is the quote that is getting everybody upset:

> “It’s unique in Japan because one word takes care of so many phenomena,
> behaviours and interactions”, from a toddler crying to be picked up to a
> wife begging her husband for an expensive gift, “but amae exists everywhere
> beyond Japan and people can identify it in their lives, even if they didn’t
> know what to call it.”

The interviewee clearly says this is a global concept, which goes against any
notion of Nihonjinron. The claim is that only Japan has a term for this
specific, nuanced behavior, which is a debatable issue.

Anybody that has ever spent time in an intimate environment in Japan (e.g., at
home with family) will likely notice amae and its prevalence in close
relationships, no matter the age or gender of the people involved. The purpose
of the article, as far as I can tell, is not to claim that this behavior is
unique to Japanese people, but rather to emphasize its importance in the
culture at many different levels.

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SpicyLemonZest
Some people do overcorrect and push back on _any_ claim that something could
be unique or interesting about Japan. But I think it’s right to maintain
intense skepticism of anyone saying “oh, this Japanese term is very deep and
complex, learning about it will explain so much”. Psychology professors are
good at drawing lines between behavior, but would the average Japanese person
actually identify Jerry Seinfeld using someone else’s refrigerator as amae?

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jotakami
My wife is Japanese and I’ve spent a few years living there. We also have a
child, so I’ve experienced many of the differences in American and Japanese
parenting styles.

When I read this article, I don’t see _amae_ as something uniquely Japanese of
course, but I do see how it is perceived differently in the two cultures. I
think the point behind the article is that indulging in _amae_ (both with
children and as an adult) is more socially acceptable in Japanese culture than
in American or other Western cultures.

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scarejunba
Ha, this is cool! Now a word for that thing people do where they intentionally
impose on each other. Like I’ve noticed that for no particular reason
sometimes in our friend group we’ll do things like eat from someone else’s
plate instead of going to get more, or ask someone to pick something up or
pour you water. Or like when girls ask to go out somewhere but won’t really
say where and all that.

Almost always seems to result in greater intimacy used in that manner.

What’s interesting is the fact that this is the same channel used abusively. I
think I’ve seen that in action but not connected it as the same thing because
the results are qualitatively different.

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ASlave2Gravity
Sharing is caring ... as the saying goes.

I like this thought on this being a two-way street; could you explain a bit
more / build on that idea?

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scarejunba
I don't think there's much more to it than that it's nice to have people
you're fond of count on you and expect things from you since that's an
expression of trust on their part. Fulfilling that trust is just satisfying.
The symmetry of requests/fulfillment makes it so that you know you're in a
balanced relationship.

Or perhaps there's a Ben Franklin Effect[0] sort of thing going on.

0:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Franklin_effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Franklin_effect)

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bouncycastle
I've once had a Japanese developer on my team which I was leading. He would
always ask me for my opinion on how to do things, but then he ended up doing
something else. It felt like he already knew the answer and had his own idea
anyway. Now I know why!

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Hnrobert42
Did anyone else find this article hard to follow? First, the definition of
amae was poor. It seemed mostly a collection of examples. Second, the author
made broad claims, like that amae was reflected in the #metoo movement,
without substantiating or explaining them.

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arkitaip
Interesting, this is the first time I see an explicit connection between
kawaii and amae and now in hindsight it seems very obvious!

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scotty79
Transactional analysis comes to mind.

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bdowling
Indeed, the behaviors described in the article immediately reminded me of
_Games People Play_ [0], a popular psychology book from the 1960's based on
transactional analysis. The book describes various "games" in which the
participants attempt play a certain social role to achieve their desired
outcome. The ideas and behaviors here are not uniquely Japanese at all.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_People_Play_(book)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_People_Play_\(book\))

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GrryDucape
In japanese culture, there's always this Tatemae, meaning you put on a
different front everyday for work or even with friends so when you're alone
with your partner or whoever, you act like a baby to get taken care of.

Its so difficult to show your true self if you follow japanese culture. There
are many who are more westernized and open and say what they want but still,
there's this shyness or a barrier you always have.

Sometimes you just have to say F it and just say what you want!

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quelltext
Is that you?

[https://www.reddit.com/r/japan/comments/eau0cx/japans_deep_c...](https://www.reddit.com/r/japan/comments/eau0cx/japans_deep_connection_to_childish_relationships/fay4fsm/)

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tasogare
Ctrl+F Amae: 46 results. It's like the author lose a bet and had to cram the
word as much as possible in 1500 words article. Also, as other said, there is
nothing really particular of Japanese culture there.

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rezeroed
"Hey doc, my spleen is half hanging out of my body - is it sufficiently healed
for me to leave yet, or does the fact that I haven't been discharged mean I
should stick around?"

Are we not supposed to ask the advice of the expert? Tell a doctor you looked
up symptoms on google and they'll get irritated. This example is odd to me.

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rezeroed
Explain your downvote.

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rezeroed
Informative discourse.

