
Canada's Start-up Visa - rileyt
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/start-up/
======
lujim
The stages of grief are denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.
Since it's 9:37am the morning after I'm guessing many people are at anger
moving into bargaining right now. "I'm mad and if I move to Canada it will
show everyone and solve my problems". We should be moving into acceptance by
the weekend. No need to DDOS this poor site.

~~~
soundwave106
The problem I see in this case is a lot of genuine uncertainty. Particularly
if you are IT in a global reaching business, of whom would be affected by talk
on clamping down on free trade and immigration.

Trump could end up being an old style Republican in disguise after all, for
all we know, and the campaign bluster is just bluster. That's not bad for the
career path. Trump could also be a genuine raging fascist. That's not really
good for the career path at all. Or Trump could end up being in that "most
likely" middle, aka a Berlusconi type figure. For the career path there,
that's a solid "meh" (although I did hear there was a bit of a brain drain in
the Berlusconi days).

Remember that Hillary Clinton was "most likely" to win. You can't take "most
likely" for granted these days. So one needs to evaluate all options (without
being so ridiculously alarmist and realize that the worst case doesn't always
happen). In the worst case scenario, I can't imagine global-reaching companies
being gun-ho about maintaining a strong presence here. And I "go where the
jobs go", to be honest.

Some of the Canada querying I'm sure is OMG PANIC but maybe some of it is also
hedging your bets...

~~~
lujim
We all have much less control over our career paths than we realize. Do your
best work everyday, try to be pleasant to the people you manage/work with/work
for. Throw a few percent of every check into a decent index fund, put down the
smart phone when your kids want your attention, and if your career ends as a
Walmart door greeter or replaceable corporate cog, all the "coulda's" in the
world won't change anything.

------
slajax
My co-founder in my last startup was in the first round of startup visas. It
worked out and is a great program but be careful not to exit too quickly
without reading the fine print. They weren't prepared for us exiting to a big
public US company so quickly. Aside from that. Great program! Ping me if you
want to do it, I'm looking for a new cofounder for next one!

~~~
deepnotderp
Hey there, I've got some experience in Deep Learning. I'd be interested in it.
You can email me at admin at ingemini.com

------
terryjsmith
Having helped a company that went through our accelerator to get a start-up
visa for the three founders, the deal isn't great, but it is a more direct
path to citizenship. You do need to go through not just an accredited
investor, but a "chosen" one. One of the main issues is that the list of
investors from which you can take money is pretty small (mostly those who
helped design the program) and there is no gatekeeper, so they are overwhelmed
with applications from companies of all sorts and as a result largely don't
respond at all . As with all things investment, you need to know someone who
knows someone to help you secure and complete the application. Even then the
process is long.

The idea itself is great, but the execution on the program since its inception
has been weak. It needs more resources and better support for the firms and
investors who can assist. All of that aside, I have seen the program work, but
you can expect to put in the same amount of work as raising a small round and
then some to make it happen.

------
threeseed
This is going to be an extraordinary opportunity for countries like Canada,
Australia and those within the EU to start aggressively attracting talent.

I would be offering to pay for their relocation costs if I were them.

~~~
jgh
Could not agree more. I'm a Canadian living in the US right now so I've
effectively contributed to Canada's brain drain, but this is a unique
opportunity for them to make some moves to try to turn it around a bit.

~~~
mabbo
It of curiosity, what visa are you on in the US? Any worries about TN visas
with Trump talking about ending NAFTA?

~~~
spoonie
I'm on a TN, as are many of my co-workers. Trump's campaign website did not
say anything about _Canadian_ NAFTA work permit holders. We aren't too
worried, but we also need know that a Canadian subsidiary + J-1 isn't hard to
get if we really have to go that way.

------
diegorbaquero
Google cache:
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:QN_3Kpo...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:QN_3Kpo6DzkJ:www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/start-
up/+)

------
Waterluvian
Canada is the U.S. put through a low pass filter. Don't expect things to be
drastically different here. Just less extreme.

~~~
raverbashing
Except for the weather, of course

~~~
a3camero
That depends on where you live. The weather in Toronto is similar to Chicago
and New York.

------
nish1500
I got in touch with an incubator and a prominent immigration law firm last
week. The incubator told me they are no longer associated with the Startup
Visa program, and the law firm told me that most VC and incubators have
withdrawn.

Very few visas have been issued, but I don't know if that is owing to high
rejections, or just low applications.

~~~
a3camero
In the first three years of the program only 100 visas were issued:
[http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/start-up-program-
disap...](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/start-up-program-
disappointment-laywer-says-1.3443956)

------
apercu
Yes, if you're sick of divisive in your face politics, and understand that
that a social contract (higher taxes and broad access to healthcare) are
important to society, please come to Canada.

I am a US expat, and have been in Canada for about 12 years. While no place is
perfect I feel like it was a good move.

If you do decide to come, and end up in Southern Ontario, drop me a note!

:)

~~~
mahyarm
Income taxes are about even with California in Ontario & BC, except you're not
paying $500/employee/month for a healthcare plan, so in the end you might call
it cheaper as far as tax load goes.

The costs of everything although is higher. You also do not have a mortgage
interest deduction and sales tax is higher and unescapable. You cant do the
'order something from another state and not pay use taxes' thing that you can
in the USA.

The IRA / Roth IRA equivalents (RRSP / TFSA) can be arguably called better.
You don't have early withdrawal penalties as far as I can recall.

Property tax tends to be lower in BC, and so are mortgage rates. The cost to
purchase a house in Toronto/Vancouver is significantly higher than most of the
USA although and has horrible affordability ratios.

Pay is about half compared to the USA.

------
veeragoni
The need for more math and science students is even more important as Mars
emigration doesn't seem crazy now.

------
kurtpre
There might be more than Canada as option.
[https://teleport.org](https://teleport.org) has for several cities worldwide
infos about Startup Visas as well.

------
TonyReinhart
More info here if you're considering a move to (or back to) Canada to work in
tech: [http://gonorthcanada.ca/](http://gonorthcanada.ca/) Also, the Canadian
government recently announced it will bring in a fast-track visa/work permit
system for highly skilled foreign workers (two-week turnaround for qualified
candidates). [http://betakit.com/government-unveils-global-skills-
strategy...](http://betakit.com/government-unveils-global-skills-strategy-
with-fast-track-visa-process/)

------
danm07
One thing about Canada is that its service industry moves very slowly.

The ^ site being down for the last 4+ hours is a good example.

~~~
mabbo
Sounds like a great opportunity for innovation.

------
ibrotzky
Got questions? We can help, www.vanhack.com, our focus is helping
international tech talent get jobs in Canada.

Check out our jobs board: app.vanhack.com/jobboard and shoot me an email with
any questions: ilya@vanhack.com

------
rileyt
This is a useful tool for people considering a move to Canada :)

[https://www.canadiantechjobsforamericans.com/](https://www.canadiantechjobsforamericans.com/)

------
robert_foss
Oh yes, I remember this visa from when I was immigrating to Canada.

If you have money, create a company and receive a Visa. Never has it been
clearer how people who are well off are treated differently.

~~~
gotrecruit
okay i don't mean to be rude, but i'm actually a startup founder looking to
score this exact visa for myself soon. i was under the impression you couldn't
just "create a company and receive a visa", but rather you need the
endorsement of some kind of incubator or accredited investor. is that not
true?

~~~
mtw
There are different types of visa.

You can come to Canada with $1m and get a visa, with the promise that you'll
invest $1m in business. This was used by rich people from HongKong. The window
of opportunity has closed but still possible in provinces like Québec. When
people say "create a company and receive a visa", they refer to this program.

Another kind of visa is the start-up visa. You create a startup and get
investment through selected incubators and VCs. You can then get a visa.

What's also interesting and easy are work visas. You apply for a job requiring
good talent. It's then straightforward to get a work visa. Usually the startup
takes care of the paperwork. When you come and stay for a few months, you then
decide if you want to apply for permanent residentship.

~~~
robert_foss
> What's also interesting and easy are work visas. You apply for a job
> requiring good talent. It's then straightforward to get a work visa. Usually
> the startup takes care of the paperwork. When you come and stay for a few
> months, you then decide if you want to apply for permanent residentship.

This is very far from my experience. Even large companies (AMD in my case)
dread the 8month process of getting a work permit in Canada.

Calling it straight forward is not entirely accurate:

\- Apply for jobs with the handicap of a 8 month hiring wait and the
associated lawyer costs (no you can't realistically do this yourself).

\- Have your employer to be initiate work permit application process (you
can't initiate this process), which is actually two separate (and serial)
applications.

\- Traverse the layer cake of incompetence and bureaucracy that is the CIC
(Citizenship and Immigration).

\- Maybe come out with a work permit on the other side.

\- Your new work permit is bound to your current employer.

\- Stick around and renew your work permit for 3 years.

\- Apply for residency.

\- Apply for citizenship.

~~~
mtw
True.

Still more accessible than applying for permanent residentship. Immigration is
lengthy, you never know how much time it takes, requires you to have a big sum
of money in your bank account, and there's the stress of even not knowing if
you will find a job when moving.

Going with a work visa can be a pain, but still a more viable plan for a
programmer than going through the permanent immigration route.

~~~
robert_foss
Is is more than painful, I wasted a whole year walking through these steps and
am as a result never going to either live/pay taxes in Canada.

Not because it is impossible, but because there are other places to live which
are way less painful to move to.

------
CalChris
I have/had a Canadian work permit from decades ago when I worked in Vancouver.
Dunno what it means now, if anything. I'll have to dig that out. Options.

------
fiatjaf
This thread made the website crash for 8 hours.

Brazilian news noticed that the website was down and claimed it was due to
massive immigration plans from normal US citizens.

------
omouse
Good luck getting cash from the VCs here though, it's a struggle.

------
yanilkr
Trump marched forward despite so much negativity against him. He worked really
hard to overcome his limitations and at the end won people over. Nothing could
stop him.

Why are you guys throwing in the towel at the slightest discomfort?.

~~~
mvrekic
Because good ol' USA literally just elected a fascist.

Cliches of comparing Trump to Hitler are cliches for a reason.

~~~
mc32
Are clichés you don't agree with also clichés for a reason (the internets also
claim Hillary as another fascist, not just Trump)?

So, that opinion sounds a bit dangerous to me. You'll have to offer a better
reason for thinking he's a fascist than relying on clichés.

~~~
ant6n
I'm getting slightly tired of the gaslighting on HN. Trump is not a fascist
because of a difference of opinion. He's a fascist because he's a fascist.
Sexual assault is also not a difference of opinion, it's a crime.

~~~
mc32
So far as I know there isn't any outstanding warrant for him and he's not
sequestered in an embassy --so I'm a bit surprised by this since I didn't see
the same reaction. You see when someone in the community is accused it's easy
to defend them, and it's also easy to accuse someone when we dislike them.

~~~
ant6n
The word 'fascist' is not the same as 'Hitler'. They're not the same thing.
Fascism is an ideology that mixes corporatism with authoritarianism. From
wikipedia:

"Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete, and they regard the
complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as
necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to
economic difficulties.[7] Such a state is led by a strong leader—such as a
dictator and a martial government composed of the members of the governing
fascist party—to forge national unity and maintain a stable and orderly
society.[7] Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative
in nature, and views political violence, war, and imperialism as means that
can achieve national rejuvenation.[8][9][10][11] Fascists advocate a mixed
economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky through protectionist
and interventionist economic policies.[12]"

Being a fascist doesn't mean there will automatically be warrant out for you,
or that you have committed some sort of genocide.

------
zilchers
Wow, America crashed Canada's immigration website.

~~~
AvenueIngres
A couple folks from an0 have been hammering the site for two hours for "the
lulz" (verbatim).

------
personjerry
It's giving me a 500 error

~~~
rileyt
It looks like the entire Canadian immigration website is currently down...

