

As Uber Comes to New York, Its Legality Is Questioned - olivercameron
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/05/nyregion/as-ubers-taxi-hailing-app-comes-to-new-york-its-legality-is-questioned.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion

======
untog
Interesting. It looks like the various taxi heavyweights of the world are due
to battle it out in New York. Uber from SF, Hailo from London, GetTaxi from
Israel...

A telling quote from the Betabeat[1] article:

 _Uber has 10 to 15 yellow cab drivers pre-registered to use its app, whereas
Hailo has 2,500. A representative from Uber scoffed at that number. Reached by
phone, Hailo confirmed both its planned launch and the number of registered
drivers in New York City_

It'll be interesting to see if just being the first into market will allow
Uber to overcome odds like this, but that is a giant difference. 10-15 cab
drivers is nowhere near enough to satisfy demand from New York customers.

[1] [http://betabeat.com/2012/09/uber-launch-yellow-cab-taxi-
app-...](http://betabeat.com/2012/09/uber-launch-yellow-cab-taxi-app-pay-hail-
new-york-city-09042012/)

~~~
nitashatiku
I've since updated that number in Betabeat with the figure from tonight's NYT
article, which says Uber planned to launch with 105 pre-registered cabs and
plans to add 100 a week. (The initial, incorrect number was what I had when I
broke the story this afternoon, and tried to confirm with Uber. Apologies for
that.) Agreed though--it's going to be really interesting to watch, with each
player having a corner of the market. There's also Taxi Magic.

------
kunle
2 things:

1\. It says something about the quality of what you're doing when the
competition has to selectively enforce laws (or change them as the DC City
Council tried) in order to compete effectively.

2\. Probably a good move for Uber - basically adding a ton more data about
pickups/dropoffs in the city across NYC's taxi fleet (which would be insanely
useful if they ever launch a p2p service like Lyft has done) and, even more
crucially, gets them to a more mass-market price point.

~~~
untog
_adding a ton more data about pickups/dropoffs in the city across NYC's taxi
fleet (which would be insanely useful if they ever launch a p2p service like
Lyft has done)_

New York City's TLC actually already offers this data for the entire yellow
cab fleet. An interesting data set, for sure.

~~~
timfrietas
Where do you get it? I couldn't find it on the site...do you have to file a
FOIL request with them?

~~~
untog
Unfortunately, yes. But it's >60GB of data for 2011 alone, hosting it might be
prohibitive.

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rajat
Remember when you used to ask people for directions and comedians told jokes
about how as soon as they heard the directions, they forgot them?

In a few years we'll think about hailing cabs by whistling or flagging them
down in the same way. Plus, the taxi drivers won't be able to bypass
particular minorities with quite as much immunity from being caught anymore.
"You accepted the hail, we have the record for that, but then decided not to
pick the passenger up. Why?"

~~~
joshu
It is like the floppy disk icon for saving.

Someday hailing a cab will be a button that says "hail a cab" and no more.

There should be a word for this.

~~~
wickedchicken
> There should be a word for this.

Roughly, <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeuomorph>

------
jmspring
I can't speak to the politics of the taxi commission and laws in NYC regarding
Uber. I just got back from NYC, on arrival I took a yellow cab from JFK to
Battery Park (far south end of Manhattan).

Our cab ride was during the morning rush hour and since I had the time, I was
checking out google maps and other traffic info. Looking at the route the
cabby was taking, I asked him why he was going all the way up to the
Williamsburg Bridge in order to get back down to Battery Park (basically
hitting Midtown to have to go back downtown). He was rather indignant and said
he had been driving for 20 years.

He asked what direction I would take, I mentioned a few streets and one of the
more southern tunnels or bridges. After sitting in a bunch of traffic, he
mentioned that I was probably right, but that going surface streets in
Brooklyn isn't always popular.

Experience certainly means a lot, but realtime data can trump that. I think
choice is a good thing and Uber will help with that. However, with highly
concentrated markets like NYC, leveraging technology could provide even more
benefit.

~~~
joshu
Well, data-oriented experience will certainly get trumped by actual data.

I can't believe most cabs don't have real time traffic data.

~~~
jmspring
It is surprising. My last two trips to NYC have involved probably about two
dozen cab rides plus two town car rides back to JFK. Not one of the vehicles
had any visible device capable of real time traffic data (mounted smartphone,
gps, etc).

Maybe there is something in the laws governing cabs?

~~~
untog
There is. NYC cab drivers are forbidden from using devices while driving. I
forget the exact wording, but it's something that Uber will have to deal with-
they mention in the article about only using the app when at a stand-still.

Pretty stupid, but it is what it is.

------
chimeracoder
> There is the high-pitched whistle, the two-handed gesticulation, the rapid
> snapping of fingers. Many favor the classic wave — an open palm raised high,
> stretching into coming traffic.

Does _anybody_ honestly do anything but stick their hand out (Statue-of-
Liberty style)?

On a more serious note:

I'm surprised they're even attempting this with medallion cabs. I honestly
don't see the need here - Uber's availability in NYC is decent... could be
improved, certainly, but there are well more than enough gypsy cabs/car
services around to tap into, it seems.

The NYC medallion system is one of the few that I think works well. Unlike in
other cities, the rules that Uber would potentially be violating are those
which _only_ affect medallion cabs, and explicitly exclude car services like
Uber. (The intent is to have the medallion cabs resemble a 'public'
transportation system more, in that they cannot refuse service to anywhere
within the boroughs, cannot refuse passengers etc.), while the private cab
companies can do whatever they damn well please, more or less.

I'm not sure what Uber has to gain by doing this - it's a hefty risk,
especially since the forces they're probably up against here in New York are
very powerful and very well-funded, and the laws are already rather lenient -
they've been able to establish a successful business already without pushing
the envelope.

~~~
elliottcarlson
Oddly, I have seen some of these other gestures used to hail a cab - but
luckily it's not very frequent.

I just had my first Uber ride today - it was such a breeze and my driver
Julien was friendly and very easy to talk to. One of the first things I
noticed (and checked for) was that he had a TLC issued license plate - so I
know he is paying his dues somewhere. One of the more interesting parts of our
conversation included the fact that he owns his own vehicle and pays his own
TLC fees - but at this point he only takes fares via Uber. He said it's hassle
free and the people seem friendlier overall (except the one lady who rated him
1 star because there was traffic - who knew Manhattan could have traffic
congestion?!)

I like the idea of Uber and hope they succeed in the NYC marketplace - while
just a little bit more money, the experience was far better than I have ever
had in a standard medallion cab, and even some of the other car services out
there.

~~~
jc4p
I'll throw in another datapoint in here. I've lived in NYC for the last 2
months and have taken NYC taxis only five or six times since mostly everywhere
I go is on the same subway line. I used Uber last weekend to get a ride to JFK
last minute from Brooklyn and it was a fantastic experience. The price was
similar to that of a taxi and I ended up paying much less because it was my
first ride and I had both a $20 off first ride coupon (Add it! It's YelpSF, it
worked for me in NYC) and I had $15 coupon from something else I don't
remember, so I ended up paying barely $30 for a quick cab ride from Brooklyn
to JFK.

The driver was extremely friendly, but he wasn't a regular taxi driver, he had
a day-time job and did Uber on the weekends and nights only when he needed the
money. I thought it was a bit weird since I've read articles on here about
NYC's weird medallion deals, but it seemed great for both sides.

Oh, and I forgot: The driver was so god damn friendly it was a weird
experience, we had a conversation the entire time to the airport versus being
in regular taxis where the driver is on his cellphone talking to someone the
entire time.

