
Cubans overwhelmingly ratify new socialist constitution - Phenomenit
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cuba-constitution-referendum/cubans-overwhelmingly-ratify-new-socialist-constitution-idUSKCN1QE22Y
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Jun8
Good discussion on reddit :
[https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/auv63j/cuba_rati...](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/auv63j/cuba_ratifies_a_new_constitution_that_creates/)

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pmarreck
I visited Cuba a year ago for a couple days on a cruise. I had a nice time,
some great people, some great venues (REALLY great venues)... but won't be
going back, and it's due to systematic deficiencies (trivial examples: garbage
EVERYWHERE, many toilets have to ration toiled paper (!), not to mention, no
incentive to clean the bathrooms, many restaurants had bland flavors due to
the inability to order specialty food items and spices and only work with the
bulk items the government gives you).

Also it's frankly weird how the last capitalist era there is basically
enshrined in their culture (from the cars, to the fairly-well-preserved
buildings dating from that era)

Odd observational note on the people: Many are into what I'd call cults but
what most would call run-of-the-mill superstitious beliefs (voodoo, etc.)

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elliekelly
I spent about 10 days in Cuba as part of a scientific research trip just
before Obama eased the restrictions. What disturbed me the most was how many
Cuban scientists I met who truly believed the Cubans would cure cancer for the
entire world if it weren't for the American "blockade."

Aside from the government propaganda, a lot of South American & Caribbean
countries have the same issues you've outlined. (Though the lack of toilet
_seats_ has so far been pretty unique to Cuba in my travels most of the poorer
countries are definitely BYOTP.)

One thing that really stood out to me about Cuba when I went was their odd
transition to "private property" which this new constitution vaguely
addresses. When I was there (in 2014 or 2015?) Cubans were allowed to "own"
real estate but the government could force them to "sell" the property at any
time, at the price specified by the government, and only to the seller
selected or approved by the government. It didn't seem that "ownership" came
with many rights or benefits.

As for the "voodoo" I think that's fairly common in the Caribbean/South
America as well. There are "voodoo markets" in Haiti & Togo, for example. And
the "witches market" in La Paz, Bolivia is... something if you're into being
surrounded by dried llama fetuses.[1]

[1][https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-52738...](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-5273869/Inside-
bizarre-witches-market-Bolivia.html)

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anoncake
> What disturbed me the most was how many Cuban scientists I met who truly
> believed the Cubans would cure cancer for the entire world if it weren't for
> the American "blockade."

But don't these scientists know that they are way to lazy to cure cancer
anyway because in socialism, people have no motivation to work?

> When I was there (in 2014 or 2015?) Cubans were allowed to "own" real estate
> but the government could force them to "sell" the property at any time, at
> the price specified by the government, and only to the seller selected or
> approved by the government.

AKA eminent domain?

>
> [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-52738...](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-52738..).

Seriously?

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elliekelly
Cubans aren't lazy. By a long shot. I found them to be some of the most
innovative and indeed they have quite the "hacker" culture given the very
limited resources available to them.

And you're right, I didn't explain the property rights clearly. I commented in
a rush and that was a mistake.

> Cubans were allowed to "own" real estate but the government could force them
> to "sell" the property at any time, at the price specified by the
> government, and only to the seller selected or approved by the government

What I meant by this (but did not clearly articulate) was that "homeowners"
can not only be _forced_ by the government to sell at any time (similar to
eminent domain) but also need _permission_ from the government if they want to
sell. And even when they've been given permission to sell they don't list it
on the open market or even have an assessment (as would happen with an eminent
domain action). Instead, the government simply assigns a price to the property
and then assigns a potential "buyer" for the predetermined price. If that
"buyer" isn't interested, the government will assign another. I'm sure you can
see how this system can easily be exploited by government administrators to
obtain the most desirable property for themselves and their "friends" at an
artificially low price.

And yes, I seriously linked to the Daily Mail. It certainly isn't always the
best source of information but I was intending to share the photos and that
link had the most variety. As I've been to the witches market, I found both
the photos, and the information in the article, to be accurate and added to
the conversation.

Your snarky attitude, on the other hand, adds little to HN. A quick look
through your comment history makes me wonder whether you might benefit from a
review of the Guidelines.

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lostmsu
What exactly do they mean by "recognized the Internet"?

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twiss
I think the "recognition of" only refers to the immediately following "private
property", not the whole list in that sentence. I've often thought natural
languages could benefit from a grouping operator :)

> There are references to {markets and {recognition of private property},
> foreign investment, small businesses, gender identity, the internet, {the
> right to legal representation upon arrest} and habeas corpus}.

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lostmsu
Question of what does the new constitution say about the Internet is still
open.

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zeroname
Seems like the people were offered a mixed bag: Have some direly needed
reforms now in exchange for cementing the power of the party, which was
already solid to begin with.

Honestly, let us just keep Cuba a toy socialist country as it is and not
boycott it. Otherwise, where would we point to when we want to show real world
socialism? Assuming that Maduro is on his way out, of course.

