

My Experience at Interviews with Microsoft and Google - greyman
http://www.nakov.com/blog/2008/03/15/rejected-a-program-manager-position-at-microsoft-dublin-my-successful-interview-at-microsoft/

======
neilk
The author is correct about how disorganized Google's interviews are, as well
as how little respect there is for seniority. Whether this is an advantage or
a disadvantage is, I think, an open question.

It's tempting to think that because Google is currently very successful,
whatever Google does must be correct. But it's the other way around. Google is
so successful that it's hard for them to figure out exactly where they're
fucking up.

As for the "I'm famous in Bulgaria" bit, that complaint sounds funny to
American ears, but it is a real issue. There are people at top Valley firms
who grant just about anybody from MIT or Stanford an automatic interview, and
leave candidates from Waterloo or ETH on the resume pile. Do you know what the
best school in Bulgaria is? Who the top hackers are? I don't.

~~~
ardit33
I am not sure about Bulgaria, but Russians seems to be winning most of the ACM
programming contests. (I am not russian, btw) So, there is some real talent
over there.

Comming from an ex-comunist country, I can tell you that the schools teach a
huge amount of math, physics, and other sciences.

When I came to the US, I thought high-school was embarrasingly easy. I also
cruised my freshman year in college, and I started to get really challenged by
school only by the second semester of my sophomore year in college.

The other caveat is, that all the good people have left my country, and are
working abroad, making pretty good salaries. So, whats left is not necessary
the top of the heap.

I am not sure about the situation in Bulgaria, but I bet it is similiar.
Saying that you are the "top" engineers of the country, when you know most of
the good ones have already left, is not saying much, unless he backs the
claims up with real products and feats he has done.

~~~
jrockway
_I am not sure about Bulgaria, but Russians seems to be winning most of the
ACM programming contests._

I'm an American. As a high school student, I was never interested in
programming contests, because I found solving the same problem as everyone
else rather boring. I would rather solve a problem that doesn't have an
answer.

So I think Russia wins these things because their mentality is different. In
America, the really smart people want to do something new. In Russia, the
really smart people want to get a high ranking on the programming contests.

I haven't done any real research, though, this is just something I think is
true :) One other thing I should mention is that I don't really like losing /
failing, so I tend to pick activities that aren't zero-sum. If you don't win
the programming contest, you've lost. If you don't solve an interesting
unsolved problem the first time, you can try again until you get it right, and
nobody will ever know.

------
pfedor
From my experience interviewing Software Engineer candidates at Google (most
of them for positions at Google Zurich actually)

1\. It is not true that you will be hired for a junior position no matter what
your previous experience. It is true that you should expect to be hired at a
slightly lower position than you would at another company with the same level
of experience. On the other hand, promotions are based entirely on merit, not
on tenure. I know people who were promoted very high very fast, because they
were very good.

2\. It is not true that you will only be asked algorithmic questions. It may
happen every now and then, depending on the preferences of the people
interviewing you, but in general you should also expect design questions,
questions about testing, about engineering practices etc.

3\. I don't know if Microsoft is better organized and managed than Google. I
suspect it is _more_ organized and managed than Google. At Google process is
something that is actively avoided by design, and the managers tend to
interfere as little as possible. Whether you like it or not depends on your
personal preferences. I have friends who came from Microsoft and Yahoo and
they like it better at Google, but the sample is obviously biased.

~~~
gaius
"It is true that you should expect to be hired at a slightly lower position
than you would at another company with the same level of experience."

That is not actually true because _every_ company says this. Google is just
conforming to an industry norm here (whether you realize it or not). All
companies also say "a year here is worth x years anywhere else" and a bunch of
other stuff too.

------
timr
I wanted to stop reading when he talked about how famous he was in Bulgaria,
but I finally lost interest in his opinion when he said that Microsoft has
better products than Google.

Hope he gets his axe sharpened soon...the grinding noise is really
overwhelming.

~~~
jrockway
Yeah, maybe Google has a spelling section in their interviews ;)

But seriously, I think he likes the "rigor" of the Microsoft process. It is
very formal. There is lots of documentation, lots of paperwork, and a very
long chain of command, etc. And, it appears he wants to "lead" rather than
program. There's nothing "wrong" with this, but I think most of us would
rather die than deal with all that. That's why most of us would prefer the
informality of Google to the formal corporate structure of Microsoft.

Then again, Google might be "too much" for most of us. I work at a company
with 4 other people. That is big enough for me.

------
seshagiri
I agree with the note that MS developers are 'more' organized or professional.
Need not mean they are better - I think both Google and MS have extremely
talented developers (I work at MS)...just that MS being an older company has
matured in the development process. Google will soon be there.

------
gscott
I question that he wanted to be hired at all. He seemed to go to the
interviews for self-affirmation. Although the detailed listing of MS interview
questions he was asked was interesting.

~~~
rcoder
> Although the detailed listing of MS interview questions he was asked was
> interesting.

Actually, I thought the questions seemed shockingly easy, compared to the
brain-busters I hear about coming out of interviews elsewhere. Pretty much all
of them were sort of hand-wave-y open-ended architectural questions, and I
would hope the answers would be obvious to anyone with more than a few years
of experience.

------
tici_88
What I found interesting is that he turned down the offer and the reason he
did so.

Bulgaria is technically either the poorest or one of the poorest countries in
the EU (GDP per capita is listed at $12,252 in Wikipedia), so anyone from
there should be thrilled to take up a well-paid senior position out West
working for well-known company such as Microsoft, right? Wrong, apparently.

I think posts like this go to show that the flow of technically skilled people
going from the Eastern European countries out West (or even to North America)
may be slowing down if not coming to an end altogether just because the salary
differential is no longer compelling enough for them to want to move.

~~~
gaius
Because GDP isn't that useful a measure in this situation. He's not buying
things in dollars at US prices, he's buying local goods and services at local
prices. He's interested in his purchasing power in whatever economy he happens
to be in, so regardless of the dollar amount, he's wealthy in Bulgaria but
would be only average in Dublin.

------
axod
Google seems to be more of a startup mentality. After reading this I'd _far_
rather work for Google.

It's probably like the difference between Microsoft and IBM 10 or 20 years
ago.

