

The $10,000 College Degree   - cwan
http://www.popecenter.org/commentaries/article.html?id=2598

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tzs
The part of the infographic showing the average cost of private college by
state seems mostly meaningless to me. The top private schools compete
nationally and are around the same cost regardless of where they are, so for
smaller states that don't have a lot of regional private schools, all it takes
is having one top private school and they'll be near the top. Massachusetts
gets particularly nailed, as it is a small state and it has both Harvard and
MIT.

The most interesting thing I see on the infographic is the section where it
shows the schools that give the best value. Note they are all top private
schools. They are the most expensive schools, but they have very good aid
packages. Out of curiosity, I've went to the cost calculators that some of
these schools provide and worked out what it would cost if I had kids and they
wanted to go to these schools.

It was somewhat surprising--it turns out that if I had a kid and sent him to
Harvard, for instance, our total cost (parental contribution, contribution
from kid's summer work, and some combination of kid's work during school or
loans) would come out to about $5-7k/year. The rest would be covered by need-
based grants and scholarships. Results are similar at other top private
schools.

Doing the same at top public schools gives a much larger total cost.

It's not clear to me why the top private schools are able to offer so much
better aid packages.

~~~
RK
_It's not clear to me why the top private schools are able to offer so much
better aid packages._

Willingness to compete with each other and huge endowments?

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greenyoda
Harvard has an endowment of $32 billion, on which they claim to have earned an
investment return of 21.4% for the fiscal year 2011. (Source:
<http://www.hmc.harvard.edu>) That $6.8 billion in income can fund a whole lot
of financial aid.

~~~
forrestthewoods
21.4%? Where do I sign up!

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quantumhobbit
What is the actual breakdown of costs for a university? In my experience at
mostly public schools, it seems like a majority of the costs are in
administration and buildings. Actual undergraduate education is an
afterthought. So there likely is a lot of fat to cut at most schools.

Not that schools would cut cost even with competition from a $10,000 total
cost university. The cost of college has risen so much because you need a
degree to get a decent job today. It is supply and demand. And students will
always choose to take on debt for the big name school rather than save money
with the cheaper school.

What is interesting is that most big name schools don't seem to be putting all
of that extra money into bettering undergraduate education.

~~~
tokenadult
_What is the actual breakdown of costs for a university?_

The College Results site is a database from which you can look up what
spending there is for student instruction (according to United States federal
government reporting definitions) for a variety of colleges from the student's
point of view:

[http://www.collegeresults.org/search1b.aspx?institutionid=11...](http://www.collegeresults.org/search1b.aspx?institutionid=110635)

The underlying database is the federal IPEDS database.

<http://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/>

IPEDS has its own database search interface.

After edit:

 _What is interesting is that most big name schools don't seem to be putting
all of that extra money into bettering undergraduate education._

A few of the biggest-name schools pay more for student instruction (by the
federal definition) than those same schools charge ANY student for full-list-
price tuition (and offer generous need-based financial aid besides). That is
perhaps part of what makes those schools so big-name and so hard to gain
admission to.

[http://www.collegeresults.org/search1b.aspx?institutionid=16...](http://www.collegeresults.org/search1b.aspx?institutionid=166027)

~~~
tzs
Here's a better list of schools that spend a lot on students:
[http://www.collegeresults.org/search2d.aspx?sre1=50000&s...](http://www.collegeresults.org/search2d.aspx?sre1=50000&sre2=250000&y=2009)

It includes a few high spending schools your list misses.

~~~
quantumhobbit
Cool resource. Some of those figures are impressively high. Do they include
things like room and board and fitness centers or just money for instruction?

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protomyth
In the US, go to a lower cost, accredited community college for your first two
years then transfer to a 4 year. Some community colleges have extension
programs / video links that allow taking of higher level courses often at the
cc price.

My brother got his 2 year at a cc and did the rest of his degree in a working
adults program. Worked as a tech at Best Buy throughout the working adults
program. Pretty sure his total cost was less than 10k and he got the same
degree as people who went full time to the college.

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Vivtek
I'm a little perturbed by the glowing mention of "human capital contracts" -
which sounds a hell of a lot like indentured servitude to me.

~~~
greenyoda
The standard U.S. college loans, which you have to pay back even if you've
declared bankruptcy, also sound a bit like indentured servitude.

~~~
Vivtek
Well - true. Any loan is, essentially. But ... I dunno. It just sounds like
newspeak to me.

~~~
kayhi
It's the other way around, most loans are forgiven in bankruptcy with student
loans being an exception.

~~~
Vivtek
! That's true, I'd forgotten that!

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forrestthewoods
The University of Washington is screwing over it's youth in the name of money.
They've been actively reducing the number of 2-year community college
transfers they accept because they'd rather have 4-year students. More money
that way. Even worse they've reduced the number of in-state students they
accept because out-of-state tuition is substantially higher. The focus needs
to be on having an educated population and that no longer appears to be the
goal.

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Anti-Ratfish
Costs about this in New Zealand for everyone. State subsidised. Perhaps a
touch more. And longer degrees are obviously more. Living costs excluded,
although there is a small student allowance to help out.

~~~
JoshTriplett
That's not a free college degree, or a $10k college degree. That's a degree
that costs piles of someone else's tax money.

~~~
Tsagadai
Sure, someone always has to pay the bill. Taxes in New Zealand aren't massive
or crippling, they are only moderately higher than the US. Think of how much
more it costs to not have a skilled labour force. South Korea also has
subsidized education, I live in South Korea and I pay 3.5% tax (that's
everything, I have nothing to pay but 3.5% income tax). The education system
here is not great and there are issues with it but over 97% attain a high
school certificate and almost everyone under 30 has done at least one year
post-secondary education.

Here is a question: how much does it cost the US, _as a democracy_ , to not
help everyone with the capacity to learn get an education? At the moment
education levels in the US are often offset by immigration (immigrants with
degrees and immigrants forcing their kids to study hard for at least the first
generation). Accessible education is important to ensure an advanced society,
innovation and healthy governance.

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shareme
What is never mentioned.

Is not rising costs it is instead decoupled buyers/consumers. What do I mean?

Look at the board of trustees of any public college or university. Now
remember these trustees are suppose to be acting in a financial responsibility
to two parties or participants in buying and consuming public college
education, the State and the State's citizens.

Right now its skewed towards acting for the benefit of lobbyists those
lobbyists being the College or University Administration. Remember folks that
public college/university budgets a formed by state money and what fees can be
raised by to support Administrator's contention that what the State proposed
as budget is too low for the college/university due to wanting to cover costs
of sports, unfunded liabilities added as a perk to keep professors,etc.

On top of that decoupling we have our own Congress deciding that Banks or the
government should loan money to students.

What should be done is put the coupling back into the system:

1\. No more independence state runs the college or university and accepts all
liabilities. This forces for the first time colleges and universities
accepting the level of state funding as there budget to follow rather than
always raising tuition. Yes, things will get cut. Hopefully, its unfunded
retirement perks and under-funded sports programs.

2\. US Congress grants a grant program called lifetime college fund. You get a
tax break for attending public college or university and the company that
hires you after graduation gets a tax grant. Now here is the kicker. We fund
it by buying a life-insurance on the student when they are born. State kicks
in half and the Federal government kicks in half. It is far cheaper to pay for
$40,000 in future dollars value by investing at year 1 to year 18 in life
insurance policy value of $40,0000.. we are talking of paying only a $1000 to
$1200 per year per student..

For example, there are 20 million k12 aged children in the US.. $20 million
times $1200 a year is..

$2 billion.. compared to $1 trillion outstanding college debt.. you hedge
rising college costs by starting a life insurance policy investment at
birth..that is the only way to handle it.

Cost wise per child the government would spend $1200 times 18 years or $21600
to get the future value of $45000 n college or university tuition paid for.

That is cost savings of 50%..

Beat me folks can you come up with a plan to save 80%? I do not think so.

Best part of plan if we only enact the life insurance policy to pay for
college costs we save $1 trillion-$22billion or 90% or more per year when its
fully enacted as far as having program fully in force for 20 years ..ie at
year 20 we will be paying $22 billlion instead of interest in $1trillion in
college debt as the government is now paying that interest directly while
students are in school and indirectly in collections costs.

That is at year 20 savings of 90%..

Come up with a better plan folks..

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rorrr
Am I the only one who doesn't think the education is expensive in the US?

Good education with the skills that are in demand pays back for itself in 2-3
years.

Of course, if you pick some ridiculous major like arts or history, it's your
own fault. I always thought it was stupid to pay for something that you can
learn for free in a library with maybe some tutoring.

~~~
pmiller2
I majored in math (undergrad and grad), and I'm having a hell of a time
finding a job. At this point, I'd seriously consider selling back the right to
say I attended my grad school in exchange for a payoff on the student loans I
took out there, if it were a real option.

~~~
rorrr
Math is a useless major on its own, unless you apply it to something, like
finance or computer programming. Do a minor in Comp Sci. There are tons of
high paying IT jobs out there.

You could always become a math teacher.

