
How A Forum Site Grew Monthly Revenue From $400 to $400,000 - corlapa
http://mixergy.com/warren-jolly-affiliate-media/
======
OmarIsmail
Nice headline, but not really an accurate portrayal of what really happened.
Definitely a "marketing" story more that sounds a lot nicer to tell and hear
than the nitty gritty that actually went on. If you look at the stats of the
forum they get very little traffic (relatively), and the forum itself is
pretty barren.

Therefore, I highly highly doubt that the majority of the revenue is coming
from the community itself. Rather, it sounds like the forum is a legitimizing
component that is essentially a front for the money making schemes behind the
back.

This happens a lot with affiliate and domain sites.

You have some lucrative affiliate relationships that you can hardcore SEM
against, however you need a site that looks good if the advertisers ever check
you out. So what they do is usually purchase a respectable site, has the air
of a community, looks good, etc. And then they have this shadow site that runs
off the same domain that they arbitrage against with pages that are super
ad/affiliate heavy and make tons of money.

Combining a legit domain/site with an SEM shadow site is also useful for
making sure your AdWord rates stay lower. If your domain has more authority
and natural SEO traffic/PR then it seems like Google won't charge you as much
to get higher SEM listings.

It's actually a "simple" model and can be EXTREMELY lucrative. However, it
doesn't really add much value to the world, and they can go out of business in
an instant if the CPC rates change in any direction.

~~~
zaidf
_However, it doesn't really add much value to the world, and they can go out
of business in an instant if the CPC rates change in any direction._

\- It's unfair to mix this guy's business success with your views on online
gambling("doesn't really add much value").

\- There are plenty of sites that would go away in a click if google decides
to close their adsense account for whatever reason. At least this guy is
diversified across the industry--meaning his revenue comes from few hundred
different partners.

~~~
delackner
What is unfair about saying that he prefers to look for successful business
methods that feel like they contribute value to the world? I'd sure rather
make good money contributing than make stratospheric money being a parasite.

------
kitcar
Let me summarize this video for you and save you some time:

1) Guy makes some good money in the "sewers" of Internet Marketing during the
boom years (using search engine spam tactics to gather traffic, resell it to
the .com startups for inflated prices, then moves on to "finance and other"
affiliate programs)

2) Guy gets involved in domain name squatting. Runs into some issues, doesn't
pan out.

3) Guy gets involved in "gaming marketing" - online casinos. Makes good money
as casino are cash-rich businesses. But it turns out that casino marketing is
a seedy business!

4) Develops "Casino Affiliate Program" certification program. Make money off
the Casinos - the guys with the money - rather than the affiliates - most of
who are just trying to follow get rich quick ebooks they bought from an
adwords ad.

Only part of his story that is missing is (my guess): \- Selling porn/Acai
berries/Loan Consolidation leads \- Spamming email lists/search engines

Good for him for making tons of cash online. Maybe not the most noble of
businesses, might not be for me, but alas, each person has their own goals.

My take away: easier to make money off rich firms than poor individuals.

~~~
pbhj
_"My take away: easier to make money off rich firms than poor individuals."_

A worthy insight IMO, one of those 'I know it but it helps to be reminded'
comments.

------
AndrewWarner
I might be too close to this interview because I feel like I'm missing the
sketchiness that you guys caught.

My understanding is that Warren's site works because networks like CJ.com,
which do things like ensure that affiliates get paid, won't cover the casino
industry. So Warren filled in the gap. He helps ensure that affiliates get
paid and that affiliate managers find new sites to work with.

Before we did the interview, I pre-interviewed him, checked him out with
trusted friends, and confirmed his company's revenue with Inc Magazine.

If I missed something, please email or call me: mail(at)awarner(dot)com or
650-450-4098

~~~
kitcar
Basically if you've ever worked in the affiliate business, either as a
publisher or an advertiser, you pick up on specific terms which are used when
talking about not-so-nice activities in "nice" conversations. There were lots
of those terms said in this interview.

It's not a reflection on this guy in particular (although he did openly admit
to spamming search engines - "doorway pages" is one of those key terms), its
the affiliate business as a whole. As he says in the video - it's about the
leads, not the product. I get you customers - it's your problem what to do
with them. Your product doesn't work as advertised? Not my problem - I just
lead the person to your doorstep - it's your responsibility what you do with
them.

Read a few discussions on WickedFire.com (a popular affiliate forum) and you
will quickly understand what I mean...

------
brandnewlow
1\. Start a forum.

2\. Invent some certification program that doesn't make a lot of sense for
people running sketchy businesses.

3\. ???

4\. $400,000/month!

~~~
there
actually step 1 for him wasn't even starting the forum, he bought it from
someone else.

------
mrkurt
That site (mixergy.com) gives me that oily feeling that only comes from
visiting a skeezy site. I don't know what it is about the site or the guy
who's in every video, but gah.

~~~
fallentimes
Andrew's a good guy; I just think he resides at the the opposite end of the
spectrum compared to most of the readers of Hacker News. Although some of the
tactics expressed in the interviews make me shake my head, many more have been
entertaining and informative.

It's always interesting to see people's reactions when they see how the
sausage is made in the kitchen (look at this thread). This is especially true
when it comes to businesses in highly competitive markets like cars,
computers, coupons, software, tickets, finance, marketing and insurance. Many
big brands are just as guilty as anything this guy talks about (e.g. AOL's
love.com, BMW SEO spamming, the shady stuff that goes on with Google PPC, the
amount of paid links almost any consumer-facing Fortune 500 co buys). They're
usually just better at PRing a cover up and/or keeping it behind the curtains.
It's one of the joys of being a public company: massive consequences for
failure to satisfy short-term earnings expectations and a huge incentives to
employ shady tactics to ensure that doesn't happen.

Edit: Here's an example more closely related to venture capital. Guess who two
of Cash4Gold.com's biggest investors are? General Catalyst and Highland
Capital Partners. You won't find Cash4Gold on their portfolio pages.

Or maybe even more telling: look at all the major companies that have
affiliate programs. The companies know what they're getting in to; they're
just outsourcing the dirty work.

~~~
brandnewlow
Agree 100% about the typical Mixergy interview being terrific. The Reddit and
OJByrne interviews were great. This one's just too sketchy for my tastes.

------
nekopa
For all the spamminess of the content, I did see something useful in there.
You get the door slammed in your face 50 times, don't give up. Try to learn
why it's happening. I've seen a lot of chat here recently about needing more
info on why start ups fail. And there has been some good articles put up too.
Even though I think his biz model is sleazy, I like the fact he kept going
until he got it right. I hope that when my start up launches, and I get
rejected over and over again I have the fortitude to learn from my mistakes,
adjust and try again. And if needs be, rinse, repeat.

------
noodle
executive summary:

build a forum community, talk to the community about what they need, build
something around their needs, and sell it to them. they don't want to buy it?
ask why not, and fix it.

------
fizx
Seems to be a teaser. Feels dirty/sploggy.

~~~
Mark_B
Agreed. Something about the combination of "Online Casino" + "Affiliate
Programs" registers more than a few points on my smarminess meter.

------
jacquesm
The forum site does not have that revenue, the product sold to the members of
the forum does.

The original title is a lot better.

------
RiderOfGiraffes
All I get is a box with:

    
    
        Type your comment here.
    

Am I missing something?

~~~
ujjwalg
<http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html>

~~~
RiderOfGiraffes
You've confused me. I'm familiar with the guidelines, but I've gone and re-
read them to be sure, and I still don't see why you've pointed me at them.
Would you be so kind as to be more specific?

More particularly, I was civil, I wasn't disagreeing,, I didn't introduce a
classic flamewar, I didn't sign the comment, I didn't use uppercase for
emphasis, I didn't complain that the submission was inappropriate, I didn't
say HN was turning into Reddit, and I didn't complain about being downmodded.

Finally, it wasn't flame bait.

What do you think I've done wrong?

EDIT: It wasn't me that downmud you.

