
Our Tesla Model 3 Suffered a Failure While Parked - t3f
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a30361800/tesla-model-3-long-term-failure-stranded-while-parked/
======
jeffnappi
I rented a 2018 Ford Explorer AWD with ~8k miles on it last year. It suffered
a persistent "Terrain Management System Fault. Service AdvanceTrac." error
while parked, stranding me on a mountain for 2 days. This is apparently a
shockingly common problem with Ford vehicles equipped with AdvanceTrac.

It's getting tiresome that any similar issues Tesla encounters are somehow
newsworthy... For example fires - according to FEMA, there's ~171,500+ highway
car fires per year and if a Tesla ever catches on fire it's big news

~~~
taurath
OTOH it’s a car and driver long term test car, so one would hope that entropy
wouldn’t affect it much. If you’re saying it’s common for many vehicles to
just die while parked, I don’t think that’s really a thing yet.

~~~
jeffnappi
I'm saying if they had a Ford Explorer (or any other mundane model) that
suffered a similar failure they would likely not bother to write an entire
article highlighting that event. It just isn't quite the click bait that a
Tesla article brings.

~~~
fgonzag
They would absolutely bother writing about it. They do a ton of long term car
reviews, many good, some bad, some horrible (like this one). You can search
their long term car reviews, they tell it exactly as is, including any
maintenance costs or inconveniences (they even mention other luxury brands at
least providing full tOW truck pick up service and a loaner, unlike Tesla
which expects you to do it itself)

~~~
jeffnappi
Can you point me to the article they wrote about the drivetrain failure they
had in their long term Ford Raptor[1]?

1\.
[https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a23888636/2017-ford-f-1...](https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a23888636/2017-ford-f-150-raptor-
reliability-maintenance/) "it ate a costly drivetrain part at only 40,000
miles."

~~~
ariwilson
Isn't it that article? In the previous paragraph:

"After hitting 40,000 miles, the Raptor began complaining with a noisy, ill-
shifting transfer case. The dealer replaced a damaged shift fork, the clutch
assembly, and a handful of other worn internal parts under warranty—a fix that
took a week."

~~~
jeffnappi
My point is they didn't call it out in the headline or write an article
focusing on the failure.

------
johnbrodie
To me, the scariest part of the article is the last image showing the Tesla
screen: "Schedule an appointment on your Tesla Mobile App". No ability to take
it somewhere else, no ability to diagnose and attempt a fix yourself, you just
have to hope that Tesla will fix it quickly for you.

I like Tesla as much as anyone else here, but that last image, imho, takes a
bit of ownership/agency away from the owner of the car. I don't trust any
company enough to have a $50k+ asset that _only they_ can work on.

~~~
FDSGSG
> To me, the scariest part of the article is the last image showing the Tesla
> screen: "Schedule an appointment on your Tesla Mobile App".

>No ability to take it somewhere else, no ability to diagnose and attempt a
fix yourself, you just have to hope that Tesla will fix it quickly for you

Why would a message on a screen prevent you from doing any of those things?

~~~
Dylan16807
The screen is attached to a computer that is able to prevent the car from
turning on. And there's no way to get diagnostic manuals.

~~~
FDSGSG
>The screen is attached to a computer that is able to prevent the car from
turning on

Ok? That computer isn't particularly adversarial. Presumably if you're capable
of fixing this car yourself the computers will present you with no difficulty,
if you don't know how to fix cars with computers then the Tesla probably isn't
for you.

> And there's no way to get diagnostic manuals

Yeah, there is
[https://service.teslamotors.com/](https://service.teslamotors.com/) Or you
know, just pay some random guy on a forum $20 for a copy.

~~~
Dylan16807
> That computer isn't particularly adversarial.

Oh, this won't be DRM-bound like half of what it does? If you're sure and not
just guessing, good.

> Yeah, there is
> [https://service.teslamotors.com/](https://service.teslamotors.com/)

Oh, hey, that works outside of Massachusetts now, as of earlier this year.
Wonderful. Next up, can you order parts without this procedure yet?:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19322223](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19322223)

~~~
FDSGSG
>Oh, this won't be DRM-bound like half of what it does? If you're sure and not
just guessing, good.

Not any more so than in similarly priced German cars.

>Next up, can you order parts without this procedure yet?

Sourcing parts via official channels continues to be difficult.

------
bigcloud1299
Recently my bothers Ford Focus had service engine light that had come on and
vehicle was shut down. He had it towed to ford. which let him know that they
recently had a recall on the model and they knew the exact issue. He was
neither given rental nor Uber or loaner etc. he had to talk to his insurance
company which also did not include recall as a clause so he had to rent.

This sort of shit happens to all cars. Although Lexus has been generous with
loaner as they try to push you to trade in or buy newer version on Lexus.

~~~
MBCook
Did the focus cost $57k?

~~~
ceejayoz
Expensive cars tend to be _more_ finicky, not less.

~~~
close04
I don't think the problem is that a car broke down (happens to any car). But
the higher end the car, the higher end the service you expect. A Ford Focus is
anything but premium so I'm sure few people expect premium services attached
to the purchase. A ~$60.000 car is a different story.

~~~
happycube
Ford gives pretty much _no_ service for 201x Focus's when the transmission
goes to pot.

[https://jalopnik.com/fords-dual-clutch-transmission-
continue...](https://jalopnik.com/fords-dual-clutch-transmission-continues-to-
be-a-disast-1837238730)

[https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/cars/2019/12/27/ford-f...](https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/cars/2019/12/27/ford-
focus-transmission/2755719001/)

~~~
Dylan16807
A slow breakdown of a transmission, even if it's premature, doesn't strand you
out of nowhere.

------
ogre_codes
I was very disappointed that the author's idea of _Catastrophic_ was far less
interesting than what I pictured in my head.

It's definitely not the only time an expensive car has failed in the first
6,000 miles of use. Also, the author's assumption that ICE cars don't fail
while parked is a bit of hairsplitting. This isn't much different from any of
the dozen or so times I've driven somewhere and discovered my car won't start
when I go to leave.

~~~
teachrdan
I am honestly surprised by your blasé reaction. To make an apples to apples
comparison, have you ever had a:

1\. New car,

2\. Which cost almost $60,000, with

3\. Fewer than 6000 miles,

4\. Suffer a catastrophic failure (i.e. couldn't start with a jump),

5\. While parked,

6\. And had the manufacturer not communicate the source of failure,

7\. Or how long it would take to fix?

That, to me, seems almost unbelievable. I have entertained the idea that our
family's next car would be a Tesla, but stories like this make me want to wait
another generation or longer.

~~~
m463
I disagree with your reaction.

With any another car, the car would fail to start with a generic idiot light.
You would then arrange to drop it with the dealer with no expectation of
diagnosis on the spot. Later they would call you up and let you know.

No manufacturer is immune to problems, even with very new cars.

In this case the major difference is the car proactively notified the owner of
the problem.

~~~
fgonzag
Most cars will limp to the dealer (except BMWs but they get as much flak as
teslas for the behavior).

Most cars will absolutely not die while parked or turned off (I'm sure some
will, but it won't be a common occurrence).

Most luxury brands will offer full service and a loaner (this is a 57k
vehicle, well into M3/RS4/Porsche/AMG territory, which are considered premium
vehicles on already luxury brands)

~~~
m463
wrt limping...

It's interesting that Tesla says this about the dual-motor version:

 _> Tesla All-Wheel Drive has two independent motors._

...

 _> Your car can drive on either motor, so you never need to worry about
getting stuck on the road. If one motor stops working, you can safely continue
to your destination with the second._

------
remmargorp64
On the flip side, how cool is it that cars are now smart enough to diagnose
themselves and prevent you from driving before what could potentially be an
unsafe situation has a chance to occur?

~~~
izacus
"Now"? This has been implemented for years - most people just call it "Check
engine light" ;)

~~~
RandallBrown
The check engine light doesn't send a notification directly to your phone with
a diagnosis of what's wrong.

~~~
jessaustin
It also doesn't leave you stranded. Some cars have been driven for tens of
thousands of miles with this light on.

~~~
droithomme
I put 60,000 miles on a Jeep with a check engine light. Also spent thousands
on trying to fix it at various shops which would replace all sorts of things,
to no effect, including about 5 attempts to replace a costly computer board.

Eventually had a redneck guy working out of the back of his pickup truck have
a go at it. After hearing about the history he spent hours unplugging,
cleaning, and replugging every single wire connection and socket. And the
light stayed off.

~~~
ilikepi
> And the light stayed off.

Are you sure he didn't just leave that particular light unplugged?

~~~
jessaustin
It's a good idea, but such a ruse would be easy to catch. A properly-wired
check engine light illuminates whenever accessory power is on and the engine
isn't running: i.e., right before you start the car, every time you start the
car.

------
_ph_
Actually I strongly prefer catastrophic failures while parked to catastrophic
failures while driving...

Of course, having a defect in a basically new car is very annoying, but that
is the curse of any technology. At least with an almost new car, there is
little argument about whether it is carried by warranty. Tesla will either fix
it or give them a new car and then they can hopefully enjoy it.

------
neuro_image3
Whilst Tesla's engineering is impressive, their customer service is terri-bad.

As just one example, I was unable to start my new model 3 on a cold morning
after owning it for 3 months (which in itself is horrendous). The entire
system shut down and would not start. This was particularly problematic for me
as I am required to get into the hospital in under 30 minutes in order to
treat stroke patients. As such I ended up having to use an uber to make it to
my surgical list.

As is typical for uber, it was impossible to get hold of a human to resolve
the situation and the replies (from whatever it is that replies to you on
their app) refused to help me unless I waited at my car for their service to
show up.

When I finally got hold of someone I was told that in order to prevent this, I
should prewarm the car using the app prior to using the car. No-one ever
explained this to me prior to this happening.

I would like to say this has been the only incident but there have been
innumerable problems at every point as a new owner.

~~~
m463
> When I finally got hold of someone I was told that in order to prevent this,
> I should prewarm the car using the app prior to using the car.

They gave you a bullshit answer - the car would have had to start to pre-warm
too.

The advice I would give is not to park with a low battery in cold weather,
since it will lose range.

That said, the car should warn you:

    
    
      Battery Low
    
      There will be significantly less energy available
      from your battery if it gets colder.
    
      We recommend charging now.
    

Of course, regular cars have cold weather problems too. Never park a gas car
in freezing weather with an almost empty tank (since there is some water in
the tank, and it might freeze the fuel pump or lines).

------
travelton
"Catastrophic Failure" sounds a bit dramatic.

~~~
MBCook
The car could no longer drive. Short of bursting into flames that’s about as
bad as it gets.

~~~
gleenn
I think you're downplaying the number of cars that actually do burst into
flames. A car telling me it can't run seems quite undramatic.

------
alphabettsy
Michigan is a bit of a unique situation in Michigan, not having the ability to
do many repairs in state due to laws meant to favor traditional automakers.

The fact that loaners are not available as readily is probably an unfortunate
side effect of the Model 3’s success; however, many companies don’t offer
loaners for vehicles in the price range (starting <$40k), but I think Tesla
should do better especially since most with options are selling for the same
money as the MB, BMW or Lexus compacts.

Obviously being an electric car it fails as gracefully as an ICE car with a
fuel system issue.

~~~
bsagdiyev
Most companies do actually offer loaners. Honda does, Toyota does, VW does.
They're all under $40k for the most part.

------
taurath
That experience certainly makes me really think about the value proposition.
If I’m buying a $60k car, it breaks after 5k miles, and they can’t get me a
loaner?

------
dehrmann
>...the pyrotechnic battery disconnect...

What the?! Sounds sorta awesome.

~~~
alphabettsy
BMW has been using them for 20 years or more. When the Airbags are deployed
the primary battery connection servers power to fuel pump, etc. leaves only
the lights and some other accessories working.

------
londons_explore
Speculating in the failure cause here...

I would guess the Tesla constantly checks the isolation between the high
voltage system and the car chassis. If it is ever compromised, it blows
single-use pyrotechnic fuses as a safety measure (to protect a person who may
have their hands in the high voltage system).

That event then makes the car useless till serviced.

Since it is a kind of 'catch all' event, it happens quite frequently, so it
was worth Tesla building an error message into the app for it.

~~~
castratikron
What's worse, your car won't move or your car gives you a 400V shock when you
touch it? It's obvious what the better solution is so that's how it was
designed. Things happen sometimes and its always better to fail safe.

Now if the failure mode had been the opposite this would be an entirely
different story, even possibly brand ruining.

------
dehrmann
I know Teslas have a history of reliability issues, but I thought they've
gotten better recently.

~~~
slenk
And one story will convince you otherwise?

------
sneak
I think the general level of abysmal service from Tesla these days, plus the
inability to casually sever the network connection/tracking, is the reason I
will cancel my cybertruck order.

~~~
o-__-o
My wife saw a Kia Stinger in a parking lot the other day and started drooling
over it. “Why didn’t you get this one??” I asked her to remember the horror
stories we have gone through with our Ford dealership, I told her Kia service
would be worse by 5 orders of magnitude.

You are being downvoted, but poor customer service is a real reason to avoid
certain car brands..

~~~
Marsymars
Seems like more of any issue with your local dealership than the manufacturer.
In my area, dealerships for entirely separate manufacturers will often have
the same owners, so from that perspective, it hardly matters where you go.

~~~
o-__-o
I don't disagree. Except this was dealing with Ford HQ to resolve an extended
warranty disagreement. I also had to do something similar with the first
luxury car I dealt with. You see, extended warranties climb up the food chain
since the manufacturers have made the decision it's cheaper to fix the problem
than to ignore it (A * B < C in the famous fight club reference). They also
need to authorize it.

Luxury car was a fight but they caved relatively quickly. Ford is an ongoing
saga that has now taken longer to simply prove there is a problem than it took
for luxury car to resolve the whole ordeal. Kia would likely be worse since
they were selling Stingers at a huge markdown for awhile. I'll pass and stick
to Toyota which hasn't had any major reliability problems in the past decade
on their vehicles and have great service centers (in my very large metro area)

------
rasz
>no offer of a loaner or any kind of temporary transportation

Why would you expect that from Tesla? Its part of every decent insurance in
Europe.

~~~
serf
>Why would you expect that from Tesla?

because literally every manufacturer that sells cars that are more expensive
than economy sector vehicles offers loaners at their dealerships fairly
casually (in the US).

Granted, it's usually a function of the individual dealership, but it's
extraordinarily common.

>Its part of every decent insurance in Europe.

it's a common coverage in the US, too. What's uncommon is involving insurance
for warranty work. It'd be more common if the repair work triggered some kind
of extended insurance contract from a third party.

------
tus88
Electrical fails harder than mechanical. The problem with EVs is they are 100%
electrical.

------
rangewookie
_Not only is this the first time we 've ever had a long-term car suffer a
catastrophic failure while parked, it's also an extraordinarily rare case of
any car leaving us stranded, something unacceptable for any new vehicle,
particularly one that costs $57,690 and with merely 5286 miles on the
odometer._

Can anyone shed light on if this is a widespread issue, or is this an edge
case? This article reads like a rant.

Not too long ago, you discovered out your vehicle was dead because it wouldn't
start. It would flash a light if you were lucky.

 _This time, there was no offer of a loaner or any kind of temporary
transportation_

That sucks, maybe the only notable comment in the entire article.

