
Only 4% of Uber drivers remain on the platform a year later, says report - rock57
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/20/only-4-percent-of-uber-drivers-remain-after-a-year-says-report.html
======
ivancdg
Where I live Uber drivers often use it as a loss leader. They chat people up,
and if they strike up a rapport they suggest customers contact them directly,
cutting out the middle man. They can even undercut Uber, and still make more
money than they do with Uber.

This especially makes sense for people who have a regular commute to the
airport etc. I've experienced the same thing with Airbnb: first stay via the
platform, and further stays booked directly. With Airbnb you miss out on the
platform's protections. But with Uber, as the drivers are getting paid less
and less, it seems easier to slide into direct contact.

It can be useful to have a private car driver you know and trust, without the
anxiety of the wait, or of drivers calling you to ask where you're going, only
to cancel the ride. (This happens to me regularly at the airport).

~~~
padobson
This is interesting to me because it suggests that the future of work is in
the hands of those who can hustle, rather than in sharing-economy fiefdoms
like Airbnb and Uber.

I've been adamant for a long time that the best path to a growing economy is
lowering the barriers to entrepreneurship through education, less onerous
regulations for small businesses, tax incentives to start a small business,
and, probably more important than any piece of legislation, a change in the
culture.

Entrepreneurship should be the first choice for everyone, not just folks that
read HN.

~~~
hackuser
> the future of work is in the hands of those who can hustle

Instead of the Gig Economy, the Hustle Economy?

Hustling is not a desirable state of employment. I don't want scrambling for
money here and there to replace steady, productive jobs. Right now hustlers
are glamorized, but it used to be an insult.

EDIT: It's useful to employers who don't want the responsibilities of actual
employees.

> Entrepreneurship should be the first choice for everyone

Why? How will this produce better results than full-time jobs? How about
people with obligations such as children and mortgages?

> less onerous regulations for small businesses

I keep hearing this, but after cutting regulations for 30 years eventually we
must arrive at the right amount. After a certain point, losing weight is bad
for your health; you might even need to gain some. What particular regulations
in particular is everyone complaining about?

~~~
antisthenes
> Entrepreneurship should be the first choice for everyone

That's just a sugar-coated way of saying: "We, the capital owners want to
externalize the risk to everyone else"

------
calcsam
If you read the original article in the Information, 20% of people who sign up
to drive Uber are approved to do so, and 20% of those are still driving after
a year. Still bad, but very different from a 4% retention rate.

[https://www.theinformation.com/how-uber-will-combat-
rising-d...](https://www.theinformation.com/how-uber-will-combat-rising-
driver-churn)

~~~
paulsutter
Good link, just flagged the article

To me it's good news that Uber is selective

Edit: (the link provided is subscription only)

~~~
vertex-four
This is not a reason for flagging the article, as it's interesting either way
- it's potentially a reason to ask the admins to change the link.

------
gumby
Hard to say if this is good or bad, for Uber or anyone else. Anecdotally, the
majority of Lyft/Uber drivers I talk to have a day job and use it to pick up
some extra money or for something to do. So if their personal situation
improves they could drop it.

After all the same headline could be written about MacDonalds stores and
nobody considers them to be augering.

~~~
MegaButts
> After all the same headline could be written about MacDonalds stores and
> nobody considers them to be augering.

I don't think this is true. It's just that Uber generates more clicks right
now. When the $15 minimum wage becomes a hot topic again McDonald's will be
vilified by the media (again).

------
giarc
Uber was recently launched in my city after the usual municipal hurdles
(Calgary). I've taken it 10-20 times and have had a different driver each
time.

I always make small talk and usually ask how their experience has been. I
always get a "meh" response. No driver has ever said it's awesome, and no one
has said it's terrible (those drivers are likely not taking fares anymore). I
can see why drivers don't remain on the platform. If you take a short break
for whatever reason, you likely have very little motivation to pick up again.
It doesn't seem like it's life changing for any driver in my city (one driver
did say it was good for him, but he was a realtor who would hand out his
business card).

I think this shows why Uber needs to subsidize so many rides when first
starting out. They need to provide their drivers with tons of business,
otherwise the two sided marketplace doesn't get solved.

~~~
alexdrans
Weird. I ask the same in London, and they all love it; working on their own
time, no boss, secondary job et cetera. Not a shill.

~~~
giarc
It likely depends on how busy you are. Calgary had a rough start. Uber came to
Calgary but was then shut down for an extended period. It then started up
again December 2016.

Most of the comments by drivers are that it's not busy enough. You get a trip
to one side of town and then you are left sitting there without another fare.
They then have to either go home or drive to another part of town to try and
guess where more fares will come from. This will likely be solved with more
customers, and that's where my comment about Uber subsidizing more rides came
from.

EDIT - A lot of the drivers also appear to be out of work to decided to drive
for Uber to make some spare cash (the drop in oil prices hurt Calgarians). So
they didn't have a boss before Uber, they were unemployed. So I think they
appreciate the extra income, but it's not as much as they hoped.

------
rewrew
I know someone who said they wanted to pick it up as a second job on
evenings/weekends but after doing it for a few weeks and crunching the numbers
when all was said and done they only averaged $5 an hour -- just wasn't worth
it.

------
sharkweek
I made the switch to exclusively using Lyft during the last few months of
hoopla. Occasionally, I'll ask drivers their thoughts on Uber/Lyft - I haven't
ridden with one who doesn't use both for work, but most have said they prefer
Lyft (this is probably biased because I used Lyft to get a ride with them),
but a few did comment they at least feel like Lyft has their backs/pays
better, etc.

------
cletus
I'm not sure this is true and, even if it is, it may be completely missing the
point.

A big benefit about Uber is it allows people to generate income from an asset
many of them already have ie a car. What's more, they can do it in a flexible
way.

I've spoken to a few Uber drivers and a common story has been that they
started doing it between jobs. Some kept doing it. I'm sure others finally got
jobs.

As far as Lyft goes, I just don't buy that Lyft has some moral high ground
here. They're playing a desperate catch up game and playing the "good guy"
card is cheap marketing.

I see a lot of their ads on TV actually. Some of them are done quite well but,
for me, they can also miss the point. Like they tout the ability to tip as a
plus. Lots of people hate tipping, myself included. It's a big reason why I
use Uber rather than Lyft, possibly the only reason.

What's so wrong with transparency of pricing?

~~~
hackuser
> Lots of people hate tipping

I wonder if that's true. The only place I've encountered that opinion is on
HN. It's a practice used across nations and generations; it's not a problem at
all for most.

------
WalterSear
I wonder how many of them sign up with Uber's suicide car loans?

I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the ones who stay are the ones who
can't leave without suffering financial destruction.

------
rock57
Assuming (can't check myself, content is locked for me!) that quote from The
Information (re: 20% accepted and and 20% stay) mentioned in comments below is
true, I agree that CNBC phrase "Only 4 percent of people who sign up to drive
for the ride-hailing service are still driving a year later" while being
factually correct sounds misleading, even though they directly link to the
original content!

Therefore, I ask the admins to change the link to the Information page!

Also, it would be nice if anyone can (for people like me who are NOT
subscribed to The Information) kindly copy and paste here the whole original
Information article. Thanks!

------
RA_Fisher
Almost assuredly the 4% number is biased lower than the true population
statistic (unless censoring was accounted for --- very likely not). If you
don't include drivers having lived longer than a year the figure will be lower
(same if you truncate their lifetime to be one year).

One solution would be to wait a year after the start date of all drivers as
the censoring problem would go away (but of course your information is a year
out of date!).

Which is it, biased lower than the true value or a year out of date?

~~~
hackuser
How was the number arrived at, do you know? I don't see anything about it in
the CNBC article, and the article in The Information is paywalled.

------
HillaryBriss
the drivers cite low compensation and low/no tipping as the reason for
leaving. no surprise there.

an alternative to leaving would be for Uber drivers to commit profitable
crimes. i've seen _some_ news stories about burglaries by Uber drivers, but
not as many as i would have expected.

does anyone have data on that? what exactly is the percentage of drivers who
pursue crime as a means of extra income?

~~~
utternerd
Probably the same as many other professions, why would working for Uber make
you more likely to become a criminal over any other lower-end paying job?
"What percentage of grocery checkers pursue crime as a means of extra income?"
I fail to see how it's even a useful question, and implies there's a criminal
element there.

Across pay levels and careers that information might be interesting, but
specific to one position at a single company seems entirely too specific.

------
kirykl
I think this is mostly supply and demand, but its not helped by Uber's lack of
driver support. If the rates increase, the drivers will quickly return

~~~
aianus
Why would the net driver earnings ever be higher than, say, flipping burgers
at McDonald's?

Driving an Uber is certainly easier and more fun.

~~~
lucasmullens
Requires a new enough car, which prevents some people from doing it. They
provide ways to rent, but I believe that requires a full time commitment.

