
Replace Skype with Discord for Better Audio Quality and Web-Based Interviews - tambourine_man
https://www.macobserver.com/tips/deep-dive/podcasters-replace-skype-discord/
======
nirv
Wouldn't secure Wire[1] be a better replacement?

It's crypto-audited[2], open-sourced[3], has native mobile clients[4], Swiss
based[5], and pretty well known[6].

[1] [https://wire.com](https://wire.com)

[2] [https://techcrunch.com/2017/02/10/messaging-app-wire-now-
has...](https://techcrunch.com/2017/02/10/messaging-app-wire-now-has-an-
external-audit-of-its-e2e-crypto/)

[3] [https://medium.com/@wireapp/wire-server-code-now-100-open-
so...](https://medium.com/@wireapp/wire-server-code-now-100-open-source-the-
journey-continues-88e24164309c)

[4] [https://github.com/wireapp](https://github.com/wireapp)

[5]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_Swiss](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_Swiss)

[6]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12148596](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12148596)

~~~
tdb7893
I saw "request a demo" so presumably it's not free and that's a problem. Also
Discord works in most browsers so the person they are interviewing doesn't
need to download anything

~~~
nirv
It's free for personal use, I responded to a nearby comment. In-browser is a
good feature, I guess Wire can also get there in future, since both, Discord
and Wire, are electron-based apps. But I believe call quality is not quite
enough to replace Skype, I demand e2e privacy as well.

------
mseebach
I've been listening to enough poor-quality phone/Skype podcast interviews, and
figured that someone should build an interview tool that will setup a real
time conference, exactly like Skype, but also record the audio in high quality
at all remotes and then transfer the recordings afterwards and mix them
together with correct timing, so it sounds like all parties are in the same
studio. Perhaps even do some magic to mix out the latency, even though there
would be some weirdness to work around when participants speak over each other
and go "sorry, go ahead".

~~~
CharlesW
This is a common way to record remote interviews (since the mid-1900s, I
think), and is called a "multi-ender" (or "double-ender").[1]

They're straightforward to do manually. All parties participate in a recorded
"1-2-3-clap" at the beginning and end of the call, and the claps are later
used for sync.

There are also many "assisted" solutions, including Cast[2], Cleanfeed[3],
Ringr[4], and Zencastr[5]. Some folks find them useful, but the additional
dependency also means more things that can go wrong. Anybody using them has
learned (or will learn) that they must record the live/VoIP portion of the
call as well, as backup.

[1] Wikipedia calls this a "phone-sync" ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phone-
sync](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phone-sync)), which is not a term I've
ever heard people actually use.

[2] [https://tryca.st/](https://tryca.st/) [3]
[http://cleanfeed.net/](http://cleanfeed.net/) [4]
[https://www.ringr.com/](https://www.ringr.com/) [5]
[https://zencastr.com/](https://zencastr.com/)

~~~
mseebach
Excellent, I'm happy (and feel validated) that this exists.

As this would replace Skype (or whatever conferencing tool you're using), it's
not really an additional dependency, is it?

~~~
CharlesW
> _As this would replace Skype (or whatever conferencing tool you 're using),
> it's not really an additional dependency, is it?_

It is in the sense that those solutions are not only replacing the realtime
part of the call, but additionally must do separate source-quality call
recording _and_ post-call file transfer sessions for each participant.

I've lost calls (or would have, if I hadn't recorded the realtime part) with
more than one of those solutions because of unrecoverable errors on
participants' sides. I'm reluctant to name them since (1) they in turn depend
on browsers and their WebRTC implementations, and (2) in my experience
different podcasters will swear by _and_ swear at the same solution.

Here's how I'd order the reliability of common remote recording scenarios,
from most to least reliable:

(1) Landline-to-landline

(2) Landline-to-mobile or mobile-to-mobile

(3) SkypeOut-to-landline/mobile

(4) VoIP-to-VoIP — Skype, Discord, whatever.

(5) Manual multi-ender — Can be done very reliably if remote participants are
reasonably comfortable with recording audio. Still requires a POTS, mobile, or
VoIP call for the realtime part.

(6) Assisted multi-ender solutions — Generally way less reliable than manual
multi-enders. In my experience and from talking with other podcasters, expect
1/20 calls to fail.

------
spraak
I've Zoom with great results for the past two years at a few different
companies

~~~
modoc
Second this. We use Zoom internally all the time. When a client's Skype/Lync
system fails to work, we send out a Zoom link and everyone is like "Whoa!"
every time....

------
Y_Y
After trying every product I could get my hands on, I'm currently using
Riot/Matrix for this purpose. All the same I'm still not really satisfied with
latency/quality/reliability. Why is this not a solved problem? We've had
videoconferencing since at least 1968[0].

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mother_of_All_Demos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mother_of_All_Demos)

~~~
nirv
Unfortunately, to date, Matrix[1] suffers from a shortage of quality client
apps. Riot.im[2][3], while the most advanced among others[4], is far from
being convenient. Electron-based desktop client is subpar in terms of UX and
performance, whereas the Android client is a disaster for the battery.
However, I do hope Matrix will overcome these issues and take it's place as an
underlying protocol for the Jabber/XMPP(/IRC) use-cases.

[1] [https://matrix.org/](https://matrix.org/)

[2] [https://riot.im/](https://riot.im/)

[3] [https://github.com/vector-im](https://github.com/vector-im)

[4] [https://matrix.org/docs/projects/try-matrix-
now.html](https://matrix.org/docs/projects/try-matrix-now.html)

~~~
ramblenode
Disagree about Riot. I find the Android client very similar to WhatsApp and
just as good except for a few minor issues: confirming private keys for E2E
isn't done automatically as in WhatsApp (arguably better because it's more
secure), the quote feature just copies text, and media files sometimes take
longer to receive and will re-download. But Riot also has some big advantages
like being able to send arbitrary file types and using the system emoji.

Additionally, the desktop web app for Riot is far and away better than
WhatsApp Web IMO, which is horribly non-performant, bringing my web browser to
a crawl and steadily throttling up my CPU over time. I consider it almost
unusable.

As far as battery usage on Android, I do not share your experience. I am
seeing 8% of total usage on a phone primarily used for texting and reading
emails and news. It's less than the 9% from Google Play services, and slightly
more than a newsreader app at 6%. Unfortunately I can't offer a comparison to
WhatsApp.

~~~
nirv
I've never used WhatsApp, can't really compare. But we—team of ten tech-savvy
persons—rolled back to Telegram in three days after trying RiotIM. Manual E2E
keys sharing in Riot is not perfect, but definitely better than the lack of
E2E at all in Telegram, however Linux desktop and especially Android
performance was dreadful. At least that was the state at the beginning of the
summer of 2017. How long do you use Riot? Can you confirm there have been
significant changes since 2017Q2?

------
5_minutes
The new Skype user interface is a complete abdomination. Even simple things
like the “away” status has been removed.

I’m actively looking for a replacement for the company.

------
chrismorgan
Cleanfeed looks like a superior solution for this sort of thing:
[http://cleanfeed.net/](http://cleanfeed.net/)

I haven’t used it, but came across it in
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15890816](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15890816).
I haven’t used Discord either.

I’m interested in actually _informed_ opinions on the matter!

~~~
CharlesW
This sort of "assisted multi-ender" solution is a good alternative to a pure
VoIP call, and elsewhere in the thread I posted links to more of this kind of
remote recording solution.

The main problem with them is that they put more of an onus on the
interviewee, which often isn't an option with high-value guests.

~~~
zbuf
Hi, thanks for mentioning us (here and elsewhere)

Cleanfeed isn't actually a multi-ender, it was originally developed for live
radio interviews. So it aims to give the best quality live and in that regard
it's different to, eg. Zencastr which does the recording each side and syncs
up the better quality audio later. Each method comes with its own pros and
cons; my own experience is also that anything after the interview is not
always practical.

------
pmoriarty
Can anyone recommend a solution that's both open source and works on Linux?

~~~
LinuxBender
Murmur and Mumble[0]. I have murmur running on a little VM and can handle
thousands of gamers. It's not has happy clicky as discord, but it provides end
to end voice encryption with great sound quality. You could run it on a RasPi
provided you have the bandwidth. Be sure to use their 1.3.0 snapshot. Major
improvements on user management, echo cancellation, game overlays, positional
audio, etc.

I and many gamers have been quite happy with it.

[0]
[https://wiki.mumble.info/wiki/Main_Page](https://wiki.mumble.info/wiki/Main_Page)

~~~
ramblenode
2nd Mumble. I've found the voice detection and noise cancellation to be better
than Skype or TeamSpeak, possibly because it's more configurable.

------
yakk0
We've been using Discord for our podcast for a while now. At this point we're
only using Skype for a short video portion of the show.

------
thebiglebrewski
We stopped using Skype recently for conference calls when they issued a
software update that broke merging calls. I guess they just don't care anymore
now that Microsoft owns them, they're more concerned with it looking pretty.

------
pmlnr
Just use Linphone and SIP; it allows to set the quality, the codec, the
bandwidth, the resolution for both audio and video, while it's a native build,
not electron.

~~~
orev
SIP is a disaster. There are so many issues with configuration, firewall
traversal, and general user experience that saying end users should be using
it is just disconnected from reality. Skype nailed it for a reason—because all
the dumb SIP stuff you need to deal with just to get it going is too much. You
need to be able to install an app and just go. Especially with interviews and
any time you’re dealing with people outside of you controlled little
environment.

SIP is successful in the telecom space because it still requires specialized
knowledge and dedicated teams of people to run it, and preserving that might
be the reason it’s still such a pain.

~~~
Godel_unicode
I think SIP lives in Telco land for a similar reason Cisco does (or Kerberos
in enterprises). Yes it's complicated, but that's just a funny way of spelling
flexible. Most people just want to make calls and are happy with a locked down
one-size-fits-all solution, so they just use Skype and it's good enough. Some
people want to tune their own systems to get them closer to just right and
aren't afraid of the complexity.

It has options for multiple stream transports, a proper SIP gateway can even
allow two totally incompatible clients to talk to each other by relaying and
converting the calls. There's no reason half of your call can't be webrtc to
someone's browser (asterisk SIP gateway supports this out of the box) or even
POTS in an emergency.

Your asterisk solution could include a webpage and webrtc, which would
actually be an easier client setup than Skype. No app, just hit this URL and
start talking.

------
arca_vorago
For audio only nothing beats mumble/murmur. If you want video stuffs, jitsi.

I refuse to use Skype, discord, or any other proprietary black box system for
something so important.

~~~
detaro
No echo cancellation on Mac OS is kind of a deal breaker unless everyone with
a Mac can use a headset.

~~~
LinuxBender
This is no longer the case. Murmur / Mumble 1.3.0 have multiple forms of echo
cancellation. It works great.

~~~
detaro
Oh really? There hasn't been any activity on the bug I was following, but if
it has been fixed nevertheless that's awesome! _goes point Mac OS friends at
the development snapshots_

------
jacksmith21006
Wish Google would do a web version of Duo. My family has moved to using it for
our family video calls at Sunday dinner and works well even with low
bandwidth.

------
Sir_Substance
If discord doesn't like your browser it asks for your phone number before it
will let you use it, even as a guest login. It is not acceptable for you to
require your business partners and potential employees to share their personal
data with a third party company you have no formal partnership with in order
to contact you. Please do not use discord for professional purposes.

Either use something that asks nothing of your guest, such as appear.in, or
host your own service where at least you control the data. Jitsi or Lync might
be palatable to your IT department.

------
philipov
Does Discord have screen sharing yet?

~~~
gravypod
Yes but having tried it recently it provides very poor quality. The entire
time the screen was blurry. Couldn't make out a single piece of text.

From what I understand before they rolled it out to everyone the system worked
perfectly so it's just an issue of them scaling their backend.

No idea why they don't just use WebRTC for video&audio though.

~~~
jhgg
How recently? We’ve made strides in screen share quality over the past few
weeks.

~~~
gravypod
Yesterday. We were unable to look at some code together. We had to sit and
wait 2 or 3 minutes before I could start to make out text.

What kind of codec are you using? Are you using Amazon's streaming service or
did you roll your own?

