
When "What Do You Do?" Is Taboo - vellum
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/24/fashion/tricky-conversations-with-unemployed-acquaintances.html
======
falcolas
“But I think you should take it, just so people learn not to give their money
away. Because once those people are unemployed, I’m not giving the money back!
This is not a return on investment.”

Wow. That's so cynical I barely know where to start. I've helped many of my
friends monetarily in the past, and they've been nothing but grateful. Why do
I do it? Certainly not because I expect them to pay me back with interest... I
do it because when I was at a terribly low point in my life, someone I barely
knew gave me $100. It was enough to get through the month and let me continue
job hunting without wondering what I was going to eat.

It's not a financial investment. It's an investment in a person.

/soapbox

~~~
jmj42
Agreed. I've had down times (a certain financial disaster and a silicon valley
startup comes to mind), and friends and family were there to give us the
support, financially and emotionally, we needed to get back on our feet.

If I have the means, I never hesitate to help a friend or family member in
need, and rarely ask for anything in return, I would never ask for interest,
and rarely even place any expectations on such a loan. "Pay me what you can,
when you can," is common terms of repayment for loans such as these.

------
dmix
> Carmen Morales, an Orlando-based stand-up comic who collected unemployment
> for a year and a half

> "Really, it was God’s plan for me to move back with my parents at age 30?"

I read articles like this all the time about joblessness and they _always_
choose examples like this.

Why choose a _standup comedian_ as an example? Thats one of the hardest
businesses to get into... and has been a long time.

I've read lots of stories of artists (and startup founders such as the founder
of Mint.com) who moved in with their parents to pursue their dream despite the
low chances of financial success.

If you're trying to find sympathy among readers, at least choose good examples
of struggling individuals. For example, the thousands of well educated law or
psych majors who are unemployed.

~~~
jiggy2011
What does "unemployed stand-up comic" even mean?

Does it mean that your job search consists of looking for "stand up comic"
positions? Does it mean that you have experience in stand up comedy and you
are now unemployed but considering other positions? Does it mean that you are
practising stand-up comedy whilst you are unemployed but not making enough
income for it to count as "employment"?

I have friends who identify themselves as "musicians" because that is what
they see as their profession (they went to music college etc) but their actual
income comes from elsewhere.

------
tomp
Paywall-less Google redirect.

[http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&#...</a>

~~~
balbaugh
I thought the pay wall did not apply when you were linked through via another
source, including both Google and HN. Is this not correct?

~~~
robeasthope
I think the NYT 'paywall system' is just a cookie on your computer. Just
delete any related cookies and it'll reset the monthly/weekly counter.

------
cafard
Just think how rough it must be if you're not a comic or an actor/actress.
There are times that Times is just too much itself.

Years ago an acquaintance said that he made people very uncomfortable at
parties in Washington when they asked him what he did and he replied,
"Nothing."

------
alenart
The wide majority of us have been unemployed at one point or another.

Was it annoying to hear my parents suggest I should just take a job at the
supermarket when I was unemployed? Yes. Was it equally annoying when I'd be
connected by a friend to someone who had a job but in an area I had no
interest in? Absolutely!

When I was unemployed, what got me out of it were chance conversations with
people. I doubt I would have gone past the small-talk stage had I lashed out
or fumed about the annoyance of being unemployed.

In the end of my six-month unemployment stint, I sent out nearly 120 copies of
my resume to various places. Yes, I counted out of curiosity as well as to
keep track of status and follow-ups. Toward the end, I had two offers both out
of chance/networking encounters because I rolled with these small-talk
punches.

In short, unemployed folk, be patient and kind. Very kind. And don't listen to
this drivel.

~~~
ufmace
I haven't been unemployed in a long time, so I may not really understand, but
I think that people who give off the emotional vibe of being desperate and
frustrated don't tend to make people want to hire them or otherwise associate
with them. Which can put some unemployed people into a nasty vicious cycle -
it's tough to just stop being desperate and frustrated when you can't get a
job.

I have also tended to be a bit skeptical of getting a job by spewing resumes
all over the internet. I doubt that this works well, unless you have some
really impressive stuff on your resume. I haven't looked for a job in a while,
but I would bet that it's more effective to meet people in person by going to
whatever events you can find or even the offices of companies you might want
to work for. For software people, internet links to things that you have
actually built is probably better too. Of course, driving around and going to
conferences can eat up a good bit of money too...

------
nsxwolf
These are the problems you face when dealing with any kind of miserable
person. It isn't unique to the unemployed.

You can't relate, but you sympathize. That's seen as condescending. You feel
compelled to offer to help, and that's seen as insensitive and condescending.

Eventually the walking on eggshells around this person starts to make you
miserable, too. But it's misery of a different kind, so it doesn't love the
company.

------
tquai
In some countries, like France, asking someone you barely know "What do you do
(for income)?" is considered vulgar. There, you ask what people are interested
in, what they like doing, and so on. I like that. A lot.

------
ColinWright
Single page:

[http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/24/fashion/tricky-
conversatio...](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/24/fashion/tricky-
conversations-with-unemployed-acquaintances.html?_r=0&pagewanted=all)

------
ChrisNorstrom
What's really annoying is when rich folks release TV shows like "Unemployed"
and "How to live with your parents for the rest of your life" thinking it's
going to be "funny and relatable". It's not.

------
Poiesis
Interesting article, but the ending felt a little misplaced.

For reasons similar to those mentioned in the article, I've started to instead
ask, "What do you do for fun?" The answers can end up being more interesting,
and it allows people to define themselves in a way that's not tied to what
they do for money. Unfortunately, the question can catch people off guard at
times.

~~~
recursive
> Unfortunately, the question can catch people off guard at times.

That's interesting. I'm curious why that would be or how it's manifested. Is
it possible that some people don't have much fun?

------
andrewvc
It's kind of always been the case. It's mentioned in "How to Win Friends &
Influence People". It's not rude just because you may be speaking to someone
unemployed, but because it immediately makes your discussion take a turn for
business. People like to be appreciated for who they are, not what they do.

------
Evbn
I was raised to believe that asking someone "what do you do" is a politer
variation of "where do you work", itself a pry into their income level, and
the proper response is to describe your hobbies or goals.

~~~
alenart
See, that's fascinating! I was raised to believe that asking "what do you do"
demonstrates interest in having a conversation with someone. Until now, I had
never ever posited that asking "what do you do" is a pry into income level.

~~~
mjolk
Likewise. The bulk of America's workforce spends a majority of their waking
hours on "what they do," so it's a perfectly valid introductory topic that
expresses interest in communication.

~~~
rayiner
Seriously. If you wanted to have a conversation with me and it was something
other than "what do you do?" I don't think I'd know what to tell you. If I'm
not at work, I'm taking care of my baby, and you probably don't want to hear
about poopy diapers...

The real answer here is you probably wouldn't want to have a conversation with
me anyway.

