
Why Canada and the U.S. Should Merge, Eh? - tokenadult
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303997604579238301861025662
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na85
While I'm sure this is merely the WSJ's attempt to generate some controversy
by coming back to this issue again, many don't seem to realize that a lot of
the reasons against a US-Canada merger are not economic or financial, they are
political/social.

A lot of Canadians have a very contradictory love-hate relationship with the
US. In fact a great deal of vitriol spewed at our current PM revolves around
how his conduct and policies are too American in nature: pro-attack ads, anti-
gun control, anti-abortion, naively pro-Israel, etc etc etc.

There would be _huge_ public opposition to such a merger in Canada.

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adventured
This is a joke. It would be an incredible mistake for Canada to merge with
America.

Who would want to merge into the $17 trillion in public debt, the economy
strictly dependent on 0% interest rates (aka inflation), the poverty, the vast
welfare expenses (that we can't afford), the collapsing infrastructure, the
14% unemployment, the $700 billion in military expenditures, the 3/4 of a
trillion dollar budget deficit, the hundreds of billions in trade deficit, and
the $100+ trillion in entitlement liabilities - that America is drowning
under? Canada lacks most of those problems currently, and certainly the
relative scale of those problems.

Why would Canada want to give up its countless unique national attributes? It
would be smothered in any merger, and would see its national identity wiped
out by a very obnoxiously aggressive US Federal Government.

Canada is a far more polite, gentle country at a government level. America is
a violent, aggressive, quasi police state.

Canada's cities are some of the nicest on earth. The majority of large
American cities are a wasteland of poverty and crime (10 out of the top 100 of
the most violent large cities).

Canada has nothing to gain and everything to lose by merging up. As it is they
get the benefits of being next to the largest economy on earth, with none of
the negatives of having to be governed by the politicians in DC. It will never
happen.

~~~
pswenson
just a few facts: Canada has more public debt than the US by percentage of
GDP:[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_deb...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt)
And Canada has a lower GDP growth rate. Unemployment rate is about the same
(6.9% vs 7.0%)

US inflation rates are very low right now (~1% for 2013):
[http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-
infla...](http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-
rates/)

Crime rates in the US are at historic lows:
[http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/06/11/12170947-fbi-
viol...](http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/06/11/12170947-fbi-violent-
crime-rates-in-the-us-drop-approach-historic-lows)

~~~
na85
They might be at historic lows, but crime rates in the US, particularly gun-
related crime, remains absurdly high when compared with the rest of the world.
You can compare the gun deaths in the US with the gun deaths in 12 or 13 other
countries whose populations sum to be approximately that of the US and note
that the gun deaths in those countries are significantly lower.

~~~
pswenson
Yep, this is true. But the trend is in the right direction.

Judging by the media though, you'd think you'd be at significant danger of
getting shot every time you leave the house.

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cgh
Diane Francis has an agenda and should be ignored. She's long been considered
a fringe figure in Canada and writes these sorts of things to sell her books.
Her general technique is to frame an "us against them" argument that Canada
cannot possibly survive unless we do something ridiculously dramatic, namely
adopt the US dollar and/or merge with the US.

~~~
gruseom
So basically a political troll. That does explain it.

But why the WSJ? Maybe it's a better way to troll Canadians to get an article
like this in the US press?

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richardkiss
As a Canadian who has lived in the US for a long time (but who happens to be
in Canada at the moment to visit family), I've long thought a European-style
union between the two countries would be a good idea.

I think Canadians would like to keep their own laws and culture, because they
wouldn't want to give up their health care system, legal system (which for
some reason involves much less litigation and fewer lawyers), and much simpler
tax law.

Canadians have also mostly settled several of the large culture war issues
that divide the US: they're happy with legal abortion, (mostly) illegal guns,
and gay marriage, and are not interested in reopening debate on those issues.

But allowing labour visa-free access and unifying financial systems would
provide great benefits. Not to mention how much I hated the moronic hoops I
had to jump through to get my green card.

~~~
olalonde
Agreed. I would be all in for removing barriers to trade (including labor) but
that's about it. Also, if Canada were to merge with US, Quebec would almost
surely certainly become independent unless the CanadUS agrees to officially
become a bilingual country.

~~~
AaronIG
The U.S. doesn't even have an official language, at the federal level, nor do
some of the states. Hawaii has two official languages (English & Hawaiian).
Some states have given Spanish and French special status, while others are de
facto bilingual.

------
beloch
Consider how the U.S. treats Canadian interests under current conditions. They
slap protectionist tariffs on our resources and then institute protectionist
polices locking Canadian companies out of U.S. government contracts while
simultaneously lobbying the Canadian government to consider U.S. companies for
it's public contracts first. This "merger" would further erode Canada's
ability to oppose U.S. protectionism while providing little in return. I'm not
even going to start going into the privacy concerns.

Becoming the 51st state would actually be a superior option, because at least
then we'd have representation in the U.S. government. This merger would make
Canada more like a colony!

~~~
ksec
I am so glad to see there are people in the world that actually understand how
US works.

------
kefs
The North American Integration plan is already in full effect; the key to it's
success is a gradual pace.

[http://wikileaks.ch/cable/2005/01/05OTTAWA268.html](http://wikileaks.ch/cable/2005/01/05OTTAWA268.html)

Has anyone shopped at a Target Canada recently? Maybe say on, Black Friday
(which meant absolutely nothing in Canada)? Oh hi, Verizon!

~~~
Mikeb85
> Has anyone shopped at a Target Canada recently?

Nope. Then again, I never shopped at whatever the Target stores used to be
(K-Mart?).

~~~
aclevernickname
Zeller's

------
Mikeb85
This will never happen. Canadians don't want to merge with the US. We
(subjectively) think our country is much nicer, despite it being encased in
snow and ice for half the year (it's minus 30 degrees with over a foot of snow
right now!).

Our cultures are quite different, and only the US has anything to gain from a
merger. We have everything to lose.

------
gruseom
This is rather fun because Francis' arguments are so silly. "Grim existential
challenges"? She had to invent some for the occasion. (Boo! the Chinese!)
Canada is already under the U.S. security umbrella in every way that matters.
As for how similar the two nations are (if you don't count French Canada),
sure, and
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism_of_small_differences](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism_of_small_differences).

I live in what is arguably the most Americany of Canadian cities, and even
here this idea isn't even a fringe position. I vaguely remember hearing years
ago that some people had once proposed it, but it wasn't considered polite to
mention who they were. If it ever turned into a political movement in Canada
it would meet with overwhelming resistance. It's an identity thing.

~~~
fatjokes
> I live in what is arguably the most Americany of Canadian cities

Calgary?

~~~
gruseom
Indeed.

~~~
r-s
Calgary also has a Muslim mayor, who is extremely popular. I do see your
point, I have lived in Calgary for over 25 years and it is a far different
city today then even 10 years ago.

~~~
gruseom
Not just Muslim, but a brown urban policy geek! It's a point of local pride
that we got him while Toronto got Rob Ford; imagine what a fiasco the reverse
would have been.

~~~
zmitri
Not much worse than Ralph Klein ;)

~~~
gruseom
Heh. Nice try! But no, orders of magnitude worse. Which international media
sensation did Klein set off?

It's true that Klein obliged the Toronto stereotype of the redneck Albertan
(and, shrewd politician that he was, used it to score points with his base).
That's one reason it's so poetically fitting that you all elected Rush
Limbaugh crossed with Marion Barry.

~~~
zmitri
Getting the attention of the American media is one thing, but Klein was a
political dynasty.

Ford has yet to claim that longevity.

------
stevewillows
How about we make a trade: we give most of Canada, but keep back Alberta and
BC - - and also keep Washington and Oregon. We can call the country 'Cascadia
with Alberta'. Maybe this will be Quebec's out too.

All jokes aside, I hope that Canada never decides to merge with the US in
anything that would make us 'one'.

~~~
serge2k
Can we trade Northern California for Alberta?

~~~
stevewillows
I was going to include Alberta until I checked the Cascadia stuff -- I think
its only logical.

Final call: BC, Washington, Oregon, Northern California, Alberta.

It seems fair to me.

~~~
peatmoss
With Seattle as the new capital (being roughly midway between Portland and
Vancouver). A man can dream.

~~~
stevewillows
And David Bazan for president? It would be amazing if something like this
actually happened.

------
Tzunamitom
I can't help but think that this would be a vastly better deal for the US than
Canada. Canada already enjoys much of the benefits touted for a merger
(protection of its neighbour, Free trade access to a massive market) while the
US has much to gain (massive resources, land, water, better healthcare).

Assuming there was as much in common politically and socially as suggested
(there most certainly isn't) the US's stock is very much in decline while
Canada's is very much in ascendancy.

The only way a merger could happen would be as a merger of equals necessitated
by bigger global threats alongside dramatic social reform/normalisation in the
US (I.e. The US starts to catch up with the rest of the Western world in terms
of social maturity).

------
rralian
I can't imagine anything more than tighter economic integration actually
happening, but it's a fun thought experiment to consider how a full-on merger
would impact American politics. I (as an American) would certainly welcome the
change and fresh perspective.

~~~
gruseom
Even conservative politics in Canada are liberal (maybe even far liberal) by
U.S. standards. The Senate would become a leftist bastion overnight!

------
aassaass
Good counter-argument:

Jonathan Kay: Diane Francis’ plan to merge Canada and the United States has
many, many problems

[http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/09/28/jonathan-
kay-...](http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/09/28/jonathan-kay-diane-
francis-plan-to-merge-canada-and-the-united-states-has-many-many-problems/)

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conjecTech
I think the quality of the relationship is maintained to a large extent
because of the separation. It reminds me a bit of the Mending Wall by Frost:
'Good fences make good neighbors'.

~~~
pkroll
Yeah, you might wanna take a read of that one again: the neighbor who wants to
stop mending the fence, is making fun of the neighbor who won't stop repeating
"good fences make good neighbors."

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BrainInAJar
As a Canadian, kindly fuck off. We don't want to be part of your mess of a
country.

~~~
tsotha
Don't worry. We don't want you.

