
Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet - yottabyte47
http://www.microsoft.com/surface/
======
tylermenezes
I don't understand the "OMG MICROSOFT MADE A TABLET IT IS CLEARLY COPYING THE
IPAD" reaction Microsoft's getting here. They're absolutely ahead of the curve
with the blending of mobile and desktop operating systems, something which I
am extremely happy they are doing, and this is absolutely the logical design
choices someone in that position would make.

Yes, it's very similar to the iPad in many ways. But other than some of the
marketing, it doesn't seem to fall any closer to Apple than any of the Android
tablets we've been seeing for the last year. In fact, the metro UI (extreme
minimalism) is pretty drastically different from Apple's style (extreme
detail). Apple phased out the bold color designs _years_ ago. (And don't feed
me the "Microsoft is just really slow at copying" nonsense - it's clearly as
much an original design as any.)

A lot of the arguments against it are the sort of arguments Samsung fought
against in its lawsuit with Apple. The result of that was a totally unique
product, and an awful one. ([http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/05/04/the-
samsung-galaxy-s...](http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/05/04/the-samsung-
galaxy-s-iii-the-first-smartphone-designed-entirely-by-lawyers/))

~~~
roc
It's pretty obvious where that reaction is coming from.

As recently as last year Microsoft was singing the praises of being able to
kinda-sorta-use desktop software on a tablet and pushing the notion that
things without desktop operating systems were 'consumption' devices, at best.

So, yes, their sudden reversal on what people want in a tablet is worth noting
and easily justifies the same kind of quips and barbs that people lob at Apple
over Jobs' similar reversals [1].

And it's pretty easy to be ahead of the curve on blending mobile and desktop
operating systems when Microsoft is the only party who sees a problem to be
solved in the first place. [2]

Because this entire concept -- that people want both -- comes apart at the
seams about a month after you've owned an Apple or Android tablet. [3]

Simply: there's no user-facing problem being solved here.

People use tablets for what they're great at and desktop PCs for what they're
great at. And no-one who's ever put their tablet down to use their laptop is
looking at that Microsoft Surface tablet and saying "this will mean I don't
have to put the tablet down for these tasks anymore". [4]

Microsoft is attempting to solve it's _own_ problem with this blending concept
and the degree to which this tablet succeeds, is going to strongly track the
degree to which Windows stays out of the Metro experience [5].

[1] "No-one wants a widget." (Smash cut to 18 months later) "Introducing
Apple's new iWidget!"

[2] That Windows is irrelevant in a growing computing market.

[3] And I say that as someone who has been pro-tablet for a decade and only
grudgingly gave Apple's "big iPod" approach a chance.

[4] At best, the typing-heavy market is saying "I wonder how long it will take
someone to make an iPad keyboard case that slick."

[5] Metro _is_ a unique, interesting and a refreshing change from Apple's icon
grid. And I've heard far more praise for it from the design folks that get
written off as Apple fanboys, than I have from the Windows crowd who generally
echoed Microsoft's 'consumption' FUD.

~~~
overgryphon
At home I use a macbook and an ipad. The ipad is a consumption device- it's
great for playing a casual game, looking up a recipe, and better than kindle
for reading pdf files. It isn't really usable for programming, writing
documentation, or any real work (that I do). It doesn't replace my laptop, it
just does some things in a more convenient way.

Microsoft's Surface looks like (for me) it could replace both the ipad and my
macbook. It isn't a consumption device- it runs a full operating system. I
could remote in to work from anywhere, attach it to a monitor if I wanted to
work at home, and easily carry it around. It provides the convenience of a
tablet, while allowing real work to be done. It even comes in pretty colors.

Apple wants me to own a phone, a music player, a tablet, and a laptop all to
do separate things in separate places. This isn't necessary.

This is not a reversal of Microsoft's position- it's the logical next step.

~~~
roc
> _"Microsoft's Surface looks like (for me) it could replace both the ipad and
> my macbook."_

Things always have a way of looking like what we want them to, before we get a
chance to see them. I know how it works; I spent a lot of time waiting, hoping
and grumbling about Windows tablets.

And what I see here, is an ARM tablet that has a real shot as a tablet -
provided the Windows side stays out of the way.

And a hand-waved x86 tablet that may or may not be notably improved over last
year's Windows tablets.

From that, you seem to be hoping the best of the ARM tablet
(size/battery/usability) is implicit in the x86 tablet or vice-versa (does the
ARM tablet even allow keyboard/mouse style apps from third parties?).

And that's precisely what remains to be seen.

------
sho_hn
So they're not just going after the iPad, they're also going after the MacBook
Air: The Intel version + Touch Cover was repeatedly shown with the regular
desktop and apps on it, and generally spun as a sort of light laptop.

Ambitious, and finally makes sense of their Metro/desktop combo OS strategy to
a degree. The hardware to go along with it was a missing puzzle piece, and I
guess shows just how important it can be.

~~~
heyitsnick
It strikes me as an entirely natural development and something that will
appeal to many consumers.

I get the feeling Apple have always wanted iPad to be an extra - an extension
to the desktop experience. But the divisions between phone, tablet,
"ultralight laptop" and "main laptop" are arbitrary and increasingly opaque.
Many people are starting to see tablets and real possible replacements: for
light users, it handles 90% of their computer usage (internet browser, video
and photo viewing). Even for "serious" computer users, tablets offer many
advantages. They are quiet, keep cool, look good, super portable, and last a
long time. People seem quite content with the lower processing power if they
afforded these big pluses.

This Surface with integrated keyboard and support for regular win 8 apps could
take it the extra 10% for a lot of people.

~~~
jcitme
I do wonder a bit, how will this blurring of the laptop/tablet line affect
their cash cow, Microsoft Office? The business world is trained to believe:
they NEED office, and office == productivity. The iPad, long without these
apps, challenged this ideal. How would the tablet world spilling into the
laptop world affect Office sales...

~~~
niels_olson
Even my boss and my partner, died-in-the-wool Windows fans, are well aware of
OpenOffice. The idea that MS Office is necessary for productivity simply does
not exist. Anyone in an office still using Windows has at least considered the
possibility of seeing Linux or Mac on their desktop. Maybe not seriously, but
the thought has crossed their mind.

~~~
mistermann
> The idea that MS Office is necessary for productivity simply does not exist.

If you have thousands of pre-existing spreadsheets in your office, many of
them running fairly complex VBA macros, the idea that MS Office is necessary
certainly does exist. And I've never worked anywhere where that isn't the
case.

And at organizations of this type, the licensing cost of Office per desktop is
peanuts. Can't remember what the prices were, but I was shocked how little it
costs large organizations.

~~~
niels_olson
That's probably a bit different. Anyone who writes or manages "fairly complex
VBA macros" (and I have consulted for a company that did) is well aware there
are many ways to skin that cat. That's not a definition of necessity. That's a
definition of percieved cost of change.

------
MrFoof
They have a video on the main page. The video is a minute long. They have
asked for my attention for a minute.

In that minute, they have not told me anything about what the Surface can do
for me, and why I should care about it. I'm absolutely baffled by that.

Yes, I might know what it is, and have some idea about what it can do, but if
this was a television commercial, I'd bet money that such a campaign would be
a quickly forgotten failure.

~~~
lunchbox
Successful companies have learned that a (shockingly) large proportion of
consumers form impressions and make decisions on a primarily _emotional_ ,
rather than rational or practical, basis. That's what this video is designed
for. It inaugurates the brand, piques the viewer's interest, and plants the
seeds of desire.

Trust me, there will be plenty of time in the coming months for in-depth
product reviews, spec comparisons, etc. ad nauseam.

~~~
podperson
Really, you think that the video succeeds on that level?

I think there's about 10s worth of content there.

~~~
dorian-graph
Don't pretend you're the world.

~~~
raganwald
Ok, your argument is that this stuff works for the other 95% but it won’t
appeal to us hackers. My question to you is, how does Apple make ads that
appeal to the rest of the world and something like 75% of the hackers?

When the iPhone first came out, there was no nonsense about the brand and
emotion without substance. They made EVERYONE want one.

Microsoft may have chosen not to appeal to us. But Apple has shown that you
can do both.

~~~
lunchbox
> _Ok, your argument is that this stuff works for the other 95% but it won’t
> appeal to us hackers. My question to you is, how does Apple make ads that
> appeal to the rest of the world and something like 75% of the hackers?_

Asking that question is like asking an Olympic sprinter why he can't be as
fast as Usain Bolt, or scolding a successful musician for not selling as many
records as Lady Gaga.

Compared to Apple, pretty much every company sucks at marketing. So what?
Apple is an extreme outlier in its PR success, owing to a number of unique
factors other companies cannot realistically replicate.

How would you answer your own question? Do you think there's a simple solution
Microsoft hasn't figured out?

------
mattiask
I'm actually a Windows user (although I own an iPad), but you have to be a bit
humored by all this. As usual where Apple has used a feather Microsoft have
used the whole chicken with keyboards, screws, different versions, the whole
enchilada. I'm only surprised there's no stickers. "ClearType display"?
really, you felt you had to brand it just to compete with "Retina display".

Despite all this the tablet might actually be good, and seeing another quality
tablet contender is always good for competition. I am however getting a bit
worried by Microsofts "me too"-attitude and the reek of desperation these
days. They could be making awesome stuff but they lack follow-through and the
finer points of taste

It's a pity they won't put their chips down on things that actually _were_
original, like the courier or mainstreaming the surface (the table). In the
end they didn't have any choice since they couldn't surrender their enterprise
tablet/smartphone customers to Apple. The Courier was innovative but perhaps
too niche so its not even sure that was a bad call.

I guess I'm just arguing about the finer points about their attitude and
execution, with Microsoft I'm always afraid that in-company bureaucracy will
manifest itself into some stupid decision on the consumers behalf. Apple are
fanatics (and splending assholes in some cases), but atleast you feel they
pretty much set the consumer first and have some taste

Having said all this I'm still kinda rooting for MS since they ironically
enough seem to be the underdog nowadays, how the tables have turned...

~~~
kulkarnic
ClearType has been around for a _very_ long time. It's basically subpixel-
rendering that improves the visual quality of text (sort of effectively
tripling the LCD resolution). Last I checked, Microsoft had patented the hell
out of it (and I last checked a few years ago).

I think they're right about touting a technology that effectively triples
text-display resolution.

And for your other observation about the whole enchilada, look around you-- do
you see people that use external keyboards with their iPad? These would be
willing customers for a tablet that is actually is pen+touch+type (ditto with
people who try and augment their iPad with screen pens, even on a screen that
has trouble with palm touches).

Lastly, I'm skeptical about "companies-with-taste". Steve Jobs certainly had
good taste, but I'm not sure the whole of Apple is comparably good. I think,
sans Jobs, Microsoft is doing the best they can-- prototyping for months and
trying to understand where they fit into a market.

~~~
kinofcain
I don't know how they're going to make subpixel anti-aliasing work if you can
rotate the display. I wouldn't be surprised if they just are re-using the
ClearType name and it's not actually sub-pixel anti-aliased, just regular
anti-aliased (like the iPad).

~~~
takluyver
The OS knows, at some level, the orientation it's displaying the screen in. So
in principle, there's no reason it can't use subpixel rendering appropriately.
Although it might be hard to achieve - I don't know how the graphics stack
works.

------
thought_alarm
I occasionally use a Bluetooth keyboard with my iPad when I feel like firing
off a bunch of email from my recliner. The keyboard is on my lap and the iPad
is off to the side. It's nice because it's literally the exact same keyboard I
use with my laptop and my desktop.

The Surface's attached, floppy keyboard wouldn't work for me at all. If I need
to set up at a desk then I'll just pull out my laptop.

The concept of a screen-cover/keyboard is interesting, but I'm not sure how
practical it is in real life. Virtually 100% of the time I use my iPad it (or
its BT keyboard) is on my lap. (As I type this I'm sitting on a lawn chair on
my patio). And if it's not a full stroke keyboard then I don't see it as being
very comfortable to use.

I also dislike the 16:9 screen. On a tablet, 16:9 is useless for everything
but movies: Too wide to thumb-type in landscape, too narrow and tall in
portrait.

I also suppose they'll be able to severely undercut OEM manufacturers on
price, especially of this thing stumbles out of the gate. If I were Dell or HP
I would seriously question how to move forward.

But ultimately success will depend on the software. Microsoft is going to be
ramming Metro down the throats of faithful Windows users in a few short
months. If users love it, they'll surely flock to Metro tablets where they can
use the apps they've already collected on their desktops, and Surface becomes
the quick number 2 tablet. If they hate it, Metro and Surface will be about as
popular as Vista and Zune.

~~~
freehunter
_If I need to set up at a desk then I'll just pull out my laptop._

Then you're not in the target audience.

 _And if it's not a full stroke keyboard then I don't see it as being very
comfortable to use._

Then you're not in the target audience.

 _I also dislike the 16:9 screen._

Then you're not in the target audience.

Remember when Apple went on about the "post-pc world"? This is that. And that
is successful. People like it. They can watch a movie in its native aspect
ratio at full screen, and also put this at a desk and type, wherever that desk
may be.

I was in a meeting with a division of IBM this morning, and one of their
engineers pulled out his iPad, propped it up on the folding cover, and
proceeded to peck away on the virtual keyboard while taking notes. I asked him
to look up specs and pricing for a bit of hardware. He looked at the iPad,
then reached down to pull out his Thinkpad to look up the information.

Even if you don't accept that the general market will buy this, you have to
admit that a full-featured desktop _Windows_ x86 OS running smoothly on a 10"
tablet with an integrated full laptop-style keyboard that also will keep you
entertained watching 16:9 movies on the flight back is a pretty appealing
concept.

I could see something like this replacing my corporate Thinkpad just for the
sheer convenience of being able to pick it up and move it to someone else's
desk _while still working_. With HDMI-out, I can drive a second monitor as
well. That's pretty spectacular.

~~~
weiran
> Even if you don't accept that the general market will buy this, you have to
> admit that a full-featured desktop Windows x86 OS running smoothly on a 10"
> tablet with an integrated full laptop-style keyboard that also will keep you
> entertained watching 16:9 movies on the flight back is a pretty appealing
> concept.

Hold on, where is this fabled device?

~~~
codemac
They have two keyboards available for the Surface. See the "full laptop-style
keyboard" from their main marketing site:

[https://www.microsoft.com/global/surface/en/us/publishingima...](https://www.microsoft.com/global/surface/en/us/publishingimages/new/gallery_4_large.jpg)

------
kjhughes
After 5 minutes of scanning their site, I still cannot find the display
resolution of their offering, but I have found:

 _"Coming Soon."_

 _"Images are design renderings and not photographs."_

 _"1, 2 Actual size and weight of the device may vary due to configuration and
manufacturing process"_

Anyone find a better spec sheet than this one?

[http://www.microsoft.com/global/surface/en/us/renderingasset...](http://www.microsoft.com/global/surface/en/us/renderingassets/surfacespecsheet.pdf)

Why can't Microsoft present normal details in an accessible manner?

~~~
dredmorbius
Vaporware.

They're trying to pre-empt anyone for capturing the tablet/mobile space by
rushing their design concept out before anyone else has a chance to produce
product, and force everyone to ape Microsoft's claimed, rather than actual,
featureset.

Oh, wait, that was NT, 1992. Scratch all of that.

~~~
jbigelow76
Just "who" is it you think they are trying to rush? Certainly not Apple, and
aside from the Fire/Nook Tablet is their an Android tablet that hasn't been
dead on arrival (800 dollar Xoom anyone)?

If this was vaporware they were pushing in an attempt to get ahead of the
market instead of playing catch up they would have put this out in 2010
instead of halfway through 2012.

If they can price the thing realistically (again, 800 dollar Xoom anyone?) it
will have a shot otherwise it will fail (I'd really prefer it to succeed) and
they'll try and spin it by saying it's targeting "the enterprise".

~~~
huggyface
_is their an Android tablet that hasn't been dead on arrival_

There have been _millions_ of Android tablets sold. In most product spaces
that is an incredible success, and it's only relative to the astonishing
success of the iPad could that be called "dead on arrival".

And that was the rather terrible phase one. The incomplete Honeycomb, the
rather terrible Tegra 2, and toothing pain hardware.

I've noticed my online electronic store absolutely pushing the next wave - the
A700, 7" tablets of all sorts, etc. All of them finally featuring price
advantages over the iPad.'

Anyone who buys the Android failed on tablets thing has been misled. It has
been an ugly adventure but they're actually doing okay, and have set a pretty
good foundation for success going forward.

~~~
hackinthebochs
This is true, only if you compare every android tablet across manufacturers.
People who like to tout android vs apple love to do this. But the fact is,
android tablets have not been a success for a single manufacturer. There's
only so long companies will keep dumping money down this rabbit hole hoping to
get lucky.

Android tablets have been a success for Google. for everyone else, not so
much.

~~~
dredmorbius
They're also arguably a success for those who are interested in building off
the platform. While Google certainly counts, I suspect this goes beyond them.

As far as the hardware goes, I suspect it's going to be a very low-margin
market. Razors to the blades.

This doesn't make it unsuccessful. At all.

------
jsz0
2012 is the year third party OEMs start to go extinct. First (and always)
Apple, now Microsoft, soon Google/Motorola. There may be some niche markets
left over for third party OEMs but otherwise I think they're done. No wonder
HP wanted out of the PC industry. Maybe they knew something we didn't?

~~~
bicknergseng
HP went through 4 CEOs, bought and dismantled Palm for no reason and at great
capital loss, announced and then rescinded their departure from the PC
industry. It's well known HP doesn't know anything about anything.

Agreed that OEMs should go away.

~~~
pcwalton
Why do you want them to go away? I think generally industry consolidation is a
bad thing for consumers.

~~~
notatoad
Industry consolidation is only a good thing when the competition it provides
drives innovation. When all the players in an industry wallow around at the
same level of mediocrity, that isn't really market diversity. The current
tablet market is not a healthy one. It has apple at one end, and a theoretical
other end that doesnt really matter. Squeezing out 15 companies that don't
matter to make room for one competitor which has a chance is not a bad thing.

------
da_n
As a happy iPad owner, and with knowing next to nothing just from first
impressions, I can say this genuinely looks like a very intriguing effort by
Microsoft. I love the smart cover with keyboard and it looks to be a perfect
platform to showcase Win8 on. Hope this gets some real success, would be great
to have some decent competition in the tablet space to keep Apple on their
toes (I know there are other tablets, but they suck or are just trying to be
ultra cheap etc).

------
jpxxx
Shit website, shit marketing, and shit video aside, I'm seriously intrigued.

Microsoft has five cards to play here:

\- REAL Windows (TM) and Massive Microsoft Developer Mindshare \- Ports,
ports, ports! \- REAL Microsoft Office (TM) INCLUDED FREE on the low-end model
\- PEN AND KEYBOARD! \- Billions of dollars in cash to burn making this happen

And they have three huge challenges in front of them:

\- Windows 8 critical reception \- Their ability to execute \- They will be
shipping these, at best, about two months before iPad 4 ships

Execution is going to be everything. Make this a work-friendly wonderbox that
effortlessly supports Exchange, remote management, SharePoint, SkyDrive, SMB,
OneNote, and Communicator/Lync? The iPad will blow off conference tables like
crepe paper.

Make a fussy little piece of shit that takes the same amount of work to set up
as a laptop or otherwise scares off IT? Doom.

~~~
Gustomaximus
> Shit website, shit marketing, and shit video aside, I'm seriously intrigued

Given the last statement, it appears the marketing has done something right.
It is a 'coming soon' product. All it is a tab running windows 8 so making
someone seriously intrigued is a marketing win. At this point they don't want
to give you all the facts to make your purchase decision. They want to build
interest and excitement.

Personally I think they will have messed up if this is not for sale very soon
as interest and excitement are quickly lost.

~~~
jpxxx
I'm not quite that charitable. Any marketing firm worth their salt can put 60
seconds of good sizzle in a tape. This is classical vapor without pricing,
models, specifics, premiere launch titles, retailing partnerships, or even a
launch _quarter_.

I'm interested because Windows has an avalanche of great software, and I think
it might be great having Windows In Glass With A Pen And A Keyboard.

The biggest problem with everything presented today is that it's going to
spend its first product cycle competing against iPad 4 running iOS 6. And I'll
bet you dollars to doughnuts that Apple has an equivalent Keyboard Cover all
ready to go if the winds start blowing that direction.

------
bitsoda
So, to recap, no price, no demo of what it can actually do or why I would want
one, two models with different processor architectures and significantly
varying weights (1.5 and 2 lbs), awkward portrait 16:9 aspect ratio, no
mention of battery life or availability, vents and cooling fans, two keyboards
that look miserable to type on, but I'll reserve judgement until I've used one
myself, and an admittedly useful kickstand.

This strikes me as a reactionary announcement from Microsoft. The surface is
trying to be all things to all people. An iPad killer it is not. Still, I
can't fault them for trying; their future rests on sales of Office and
Windows.

~~~
freehunter
_why I would want one_

I think that should be obvious. It's a computer.

 _two models with different processor architectures and significantly varying
weights_

God forbid they release models for the two processors they support. You'd
_never_ see Apple making different models with different processor
architectures and different weights.

 _awkward portrait 16:9 aspect ratio_

Sort of like every laptop on the market right now. They're all really awkward.

 _no mention of... vents and cooling fans_

Perimeter venting. See [1] and search for "venting". They did mention this.

 _This strikes me as a reactionary announcement_

Reactionary announcements tend not to be well-planned or thought out months or
years ahead of time. A product with this tight of tolerances can't be rushed
in a defensive move. Is it a reaction to the changing world of computing? Yes.
It is a reactionary move as in immediately defensive? No.

 _The surface is trying to be all things to all people._

That's been Microsoft's mantra since day one. A computer in every home, on
every desk. Running Windows.

[1] [http://www.trustedreviews.com/microsoft-surface-tablet-
for-w...](http://www.trustedreviews.com/microsoft-surface-tablet-for-
windows-8_Tablet_review)

~~~
bitsoda
But is it a computer?

Take a look at these press shots:
<http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx>

While it may look like a handy tablet that's able to convert into a thin and
light laptop computer through the use of one of their keyboard covers, it's
not by any means. A kickstand doesn't rest on someone's thighs with any
acceptable measure of stability. So what does that make the Surface then if
it's not a notebook computer, a desktop? Okay, let's run with that. Prop this
thing on your desk with this case maneuver every time you'd want to use it as
a desktop computer. Is a 10.7 inch display really acceptable when you're
sitting at a desk and farther away from the display than you would be if it
were on your lap? I don't know about you, but this seems like a nonstarter for
anything but a Metro app. Would anyone want to use either one of those
keyboards? Microsoft hasn't even made any mention of their size. Are they
full-sized keyboards like the one found on the 11.6" MacBook Air, or is it
scaled down like those finger-hating netbook keyboards?

This is the crux of the problem with the Surface: it's a mediocre computer,
and a mediocre tablet. Microsoft should have shot for making a great tablet,
or a great notebook. I'm taking the liberty of calling it a mediocre tablet
based on the heft and size of the thing. You mention 16:9 being on every
laptop in the market, which is fine, since nobody turns their laptop on their
side and views anything in portrait mode like they do on a tablet. 16:9
tablets in portrait look insanely tall.

Also, by having two different architectures, consumers will run into the
problem of not being able to run apps that work on the Surface for Microsoft
Windows 8 on Intel on their Surface for Microsoft Windows RT (these names roll
off the tongue, for people who browse HN and Reddit I'm sure we can handle it,
but someone like my sister, girlfriend, dad? Not a chance).

Why no pricing or availability? By announcing something 4-5 months in advance,
Microsoft risks the public forgetting and/or not caring about Surface tablet
when it's actually released. It has a vaporware vibe to it when there isn't a
hard release date or window. Say what you will about Apple but when they
announce a new product, they almost always give it price and release date so
you can actually walk into a store and buy their product. Microsoft isn't
showing a lot of confidence by saying it will be priced competitively with
other tablets and having no availability.

I'm still not sure if it includes cooling fans, if it's just a vent then
that's a non-issue.

You're right about Microsoft's mantra, but that was before they made their own
hardware. When they just licensed software, they wanted Windows everywhere. On
your desktop, notebook, smartphone, kiosk, etc. Now that they're in the
computer hardware game, they need to sell these Surface tablets at a profit
(obviously), and I don't see them doing that when the Surface doesn't excel at
any one function as well as a full-blown desktop computer or an iPad.

One last thing, Microsoft making PC hardware puts their OEM partners in a
really awkward position. Think of it, they have to pay Microsoft a license fee
to run Windows on their hardware in order to compete with Microsoft? That
blows my mind, I can only guess some of these partners will move to Android
which is (kind of) free.

------
aganek
I think the case is what is most interesting. Keyboard + trackpad.

Good bet by Microsoft. They are trying to shift the tablet market away from "a
bigger smartphone" and back into their bread & butter desktop environment.
They hope to leverage their ecosystem of apps on Windows and couldn't really
do that with just a touch interface.

I'm excited to see what it feels like when it is released. I'll be honest, I'm
not convinced that I'll be able to deal with the context switching between
traditional and metro UI's (+ touch and trackpad input methods), but I'll
certainly give it shot. Best of both worlds if Microsoft pulls it off.

------
ericdykstra
If this lives up to the promise, it will definitely replace my netbook. This
looks like something that will perform well as a tablet for apps and light
internet usage, and is an easy form-factor to take to a coffeeshop for some
hacking or writing as a netbook replacement.

EDIT: Why downvote ?? I don't care about the points, just curious if you are
MS haters or something.

~~~
JennyKim
Don't worry, it's made by Microsoft, so it will suck.

~~~
flyt
Xbox is a good product.

~~~
grecy
If you ignore the RROD

~~~
freehunter
In which the return was handled pretty well. It was a fairly painless
procedure when I turned mine in, call them up, spend 5 minutes on the phone,
they send you a box with free shipping and another one is dispatched to you as
soon as they receive the one you sent. They then redesigned it to prevent the
issue happening again.

------
ja27
I just flashed back to Ballmer mocking the MacBook Air 4 years ago. I guess he
did want one after all.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYcxvEfUikg>

~~~
saurik
As someone who considers the current MacBook Air to be "the computer", enough
to have made it my primary and only machine, the MacBook Air from four years
ago was horrible: I laughed at my friends that got it, and I laughed all the
harder when they didn't use it for months and then got a usable laptop. The
2010 Air is honestly barely the same device as the one from 2008.

My point: pulling statements from four years ago and attempting to claim that
they were wrong because the same words said today are silly or hypocritical is
a little dishonest. (The classic example of this: the original iPhone running
the original iPhone OS was actually not very good. Yet, people now make fun of
people who claimed that, as some newer iPhone running the latest iOS is
finally amazing.)

~~~
polycom
How was it horrible? Compared to other ultraportables at the time it was
exceptionally good (I bought a FSC Q2010 just before the iPad came out.)

~~~
saurik
To start with, the 13" model (the only one available in 2008) isn't even
_that_ (ultra)portable; it is sure thin, but in comparison to that FSC Q2010
it is a monster: it is 50% heavier with an additional inch of width and half
an inch of depth.

In exchange for being more consistent in its thickness (despite having almost
identical thickest points), the FSC Q2010 ends up with a plethora of ports: in
addition to an ethernet port (although one that requires an adapter), you had
ExpressCard, an SD card slot, an external microphone jack, and two USB ports.

Now, looking back to the Air, one of the interesting design choices they went
with in 2008 was to get rid of the ethernet port entirely. This is not as much
of a problem with the later Airs, and not for the reason you might think...
(it isn't just that WiFi became more plentiful).

Instead, the MacBook Air 2010/2011 came with two USB ports, and the 2012 model
_adds_ a thunderbolt port: it is totally fine to use an adapter on a random
extra port. Instead, the 2008 MacBook Air had a _single_ USB port; this,
combined with the mini display port, was the only extensibility on the device.

In essence, everything you could possibly attach to this device but the
monitor had to go in to the one port, so if you wanted 1) cellular or wired
internet and 2) an iPod/iPhone, you couldn't do it. I had a friend that was
travelling and ended up sitting outside of a hotel in his car trying to steal
enough WiFi just to upgrade his phone to the latest firmware.

However, it isn't just these external inconveniences that defined this device;
to get an idea of just how spartan the 2008 MacBook Air was, you have to
realize that they didn't even manage to get stereo speakers into it: yes, the
thing had only one mono speaker. This was fixed in the 2010 versions. ;P

While the RAM configuration on the 2008 MacBook Air trounces your FSC Q2010 (a
device that, despite its name, seems to have been sold in 2006?), it still
couldn't go past 2GB, which even at the time (the contemporary MacBook Pro
took 4GB) limited your options as a developer, or even a browser of many
websites. In 2010 they upped it to 4GB maximum.

Looking at the 2006 specifications for this FSC Q2010, it is ludicrous just
how much stuff they stuck in it.... I mean, you had a 2G cellular radio... the
people I know who travelled with the Air had to carry around a massive USB
dongle to accomplish that (as in 2008, phone tethering wasn't yet that common
or convenient).

In essence, no: I'd argue that the MacBook Air, in 2008, was a horrible device
that was mostly based on some kind of weird design fetish of "how thin can I
make a computer housed in a metal case". It was not really attempting to be a
usable system: it was at best a proof-of-concept for what, after two years of
re-engineering effort, they might be able to make into an awesome machine.

The result at the time was then large (width/depth), underpowered (RAM/CPU),
under-featured (mono speakers), and unextensible (a single port); this is even
in comparison to computers that had come out years earlier (the 2006 FSC
Q2010) that were significantly lighter (2.2lbs vs. 3.0lbs).

------
Samuel_Michon
So, let me see if I got this right. From the live blog:

 _Surface for Windows RT coming in 32GB and 64GB models. Priced "like
comparable tablets based on ARM."_

This is the one that won't run Windows programs. Right now, there are little
to no apps that are made for it. It's also the one without full HD screen. And
they'll still try to sell them for $400-$600.

 _Pro coming in 64GB and 128GB models, will be priced on par with Ultrabook-
class PCs._

That's the Intel Core tablet, which needs vents. Priced at $900-1100. More
expensive than any other tablet on the market. Needs the thicker keyboard
cover, but will run Windows programs.

~~~
greedo
If the enterprise market is happy with the functionality, they won't care
about the price differential since it's not too far off a decent notebook. But
the consumer market will not buy this if it's priced the same as an iPad. Look
at the dismal sales of the Lumia phones.

------
ThomPete
I think it's pretty safe to say that this is Microsoft going all in on the
consumer market.

1\. Video doesn't really show anything but it is admittedly well made. 2\. You
have to actually download the tech specs. 3\. The tech specs have little
meaning. (At first glance what is ClearType HD Display, some sort of Retina?)

It's like they took the apple philosophy even further.

Not sure how I feel about this but I guess now finally all the windows people
have what the metro really is made for.

Oh and a little detail.

2100 Likes so far and not a single tweet (which obviously can't be true for
reasons I am not yet aware of.)

~~~
LockeWatts
>some sort of Retina?

The power of Apple's marketing cannot be overstated here. You're referring to
a Microsoft screen by an Apple trademark.

~~~
ThomPete
Heh yeah well. First mover advantage I guess.

And apple of course had it right. If you want to bring something new to the
table, call it something new. Don't mix unrelated terms in a monster called
ClearType HD Display.

~~~
InclinedPlane
Something new, and meaningful too. Retina is a specific reference to the
limits of the human eye, it tells you pretty directly what DPI a display
should have at a given viewing distance.

------
leothekim
From a marketing perspective, the video on the site is terrible compared to
Apple's iPad site. If you go here:

<http://www.apple.com/ipad/>

You see someone using an iPad, how big it is, how simple it is to use, what
it's capable of doing, and you can immediately think the possibilities.

Microsoft's video shows some dark crumbling rocks and dust, and this strange
tablet device with different colored keyboards. There is some shaking and wind
blowing and hammering. It barely scratches the surface (ha ha) of what the
device can do.

I can't impute any desirable value here except from what I can derive from
other Windows devices, which is that the thing will probably require Norton
AntiVirus and will blue screen on occasion.

~~~
gvnonor
I think they just wanted to get some excitement going, and it looks like
they've met that goal.

~~~
leothekim
Yeah I can see that. The Surface might even be a superior product, but my
point is the marketing fails to demonstrate that.

~~~
leothekim
Here's an article describing hands-on use:
[http://money.cnn.com/2012/06/18/technology/microsoft-
surface...](http://money.cnn.com/2012/06/18/technology/microsoft-surface-
tablet/index.htm)

FTFA:

Microsoft on Monday unveiled one of the most imaginative and intelligently
designed PCs the world has ever seen. Or: Microsoft unveiled yet another iPad
copycat, only with fewer apps and a lower screen resolution.

Which one is it? It's impossible to know. That's because it's not clear yet
what Surface, Microsoft's self-designed tablet PC, truly wants to be.

This is problematic from a marketing _and_ a product perspective. If you can't
project the value of the device even when someone's using it, then it's hard
to generate desire for it, and that spells trouble.

------
cmcewen
I don't see a sticker telling me what kind of processor is in inside, nor do I
see a sticker telling me which version of Windows this is. I'm a bit confused.

~~~
richardlblair
Windows 8, Ivy Bridge i5. They are just doing the conference now so that may
be why the details aren't up yet.

~~~
Hytosys
Heh, I think he was referencing the fact that nearly all consumer Windows
devices are plastered with silly stickers.

------
greedo
Microsoft is trying to straddle two models and risks failing at both. The
Surface will apparently be both a touch based device but also a more
traditional desktop. The problem will be when buyers expect desktop
performance out of a lower power device. For applications that are designed
for a touch interface from the start, it's comparatively easy to optimize for
performance, or at least the appearance of performance and responsiveness. But
load up something huge with a heavy footprint (Office/Outlook etc) and it's a
different kettle of fish.

If MS can pull this off, while still hitting battery life and price points,
hats off to them.

------
runako
"Unexpected error occurred." at <http://www.microsoft.com/surface/>

Not a good omen. (Edit: they fixed it.)

Without having seen the product, I'd say that its fortunes will be based
largely on its price point. They need to have a compelling offering in the
$499 range, or this is going to be a blip on the iPad/Kindle Fire market.

~~~
stcredzero
They would still have a chance in the business market.

~~~
runako
That's what RIM thought. It's not clear that there's a "business tablet"
market separate from the "consumer tablet" market.

Similarly, there was at one point a vibrant "business mobile phone" market as
distinct from the "consumer mobile phone" market. That distinction has been
erased, killing RIM in the process. The jury is out as to whether there will
be a viable business tablet market. My money says no, that at a significantly
higher price point than the iPad, business users will continue to buy laptops.

~~~
stcredzero
Execution is the thing.

~~~
runako
I think we agree on that.

But this is also, of course, why I posted about the site crashing during the
launch in the first place.

------
mey
While a horrible launch approach (no price, no availability, no info on cpu or
ram) I will be keeping my eye on this, and looking for a chance to test drive
in a brick/mortar.

This could become an amazing travel device, but not holding my breath.

~~~
galenward
I don't buy the complaint about CPU or RAM - featuring specs is not the way
things are done anymore.

~~~
CamperBob2
Waving shiny gadgets in the air without announcing price and (imminent)
availabiilty is also not the way things are done anymore. And we _do_ have
Apple to thank for that.

~~~
objclxt
Exactly - I'm trying to think of a recent Apple product launch where they
_didn't_ give the price up-front. Both the iPad and the iPhone, which were
announced several months before they were launched, were given prices at the
keynotes.

------
ashbrahma
Microsoft has a big event, announces new hardware and doesn’t announce price
or availability?

~~~
dannyr
This is why I'm very skeptical about this.

They probably won't ship until the end of this year.

HP & Microsoft announced the Windows Slate tablet back in 2010 & it never made
it to market.

[http://gizmodo.com/5442200/hps-windows-7-slate-device-
reveal...](http://gizmodo.com/5442200/hps-windows-7-slate-device-revealed-by-
steve-ballmer)

~~~
InclinedPlane
Huh? I've used an HP slate, I have a friend who owns one, you can buy one
right here:

<http://www.amazon.com/HP-Slate-500-8-9-Black/dp/B00465QM6Q>

~~~
BrianLy
They are pretty terrible, and a dead end in terms of Windows 8 support based
on my experience.

~~~
InclinedPlane
Sure, but they exist. Using them as an argument that the Surface is merely
vaporware is a non-starter.

------
DigitalSea
People will bitch and whine, but you've got to hand it to Microsoft the
Surface tablet is pretty appealing and I say that without any bias or
affiliation with Microsoft. The video was a bit cheesy and very motion
graphics oriented which is completely different to their regular style of low-
budget looking ameteur product videos.

I won't contribute to the Microsoft is trying to compete with the Apple iPad
debate but I will say you'd have to be an idiot to not at least try and
challenge Apple's dominance in the tablet market which Microsoft is doing and
is probably one of the only company that has the potential to succeed in doing
so.

If the price is right, I'll definitely buy one of these. Using my heavy laptop
on the train just isn't viable any more and I can't code on an iPad because it
doesn't have a keyboard.

------
stcredzero
Compare and contrast the the top thread here with the one on reddit. Obviously
two different perspectives.

[http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/v8yrl/microsoft_...](http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/v8yrl/microsoft_announces_surface_tablet/)

The questions are:

    
    
        - Is the keyboard any good?
        - Is the stylus any good?
        - Is the integration any good?
        - Is the experience any good?
    

If Microsoft can get to yes for all 4 of those in a timely fashion, then they
will at least have a business niche machine. Price will be less of a factor
for machines that come out of the company budget.

Even if the app ecosystem doesn't take off immediately, Microsoft could
strategically pick the right dozen apps to hold things down until then.

~~~
ceol
The technology discussion on reddit is almost always anti-Apple to the point
where I would consider them obsessed. Coupled with the memes and jokes,
there's just no comparison to HN discussion when new tech is announced.

~~~
hackinthebochs
Compared to the anti-MS sentiment thats oozing out of these comments?

~~~
ceol
The top comment is pro-MS.

------
evo_9
This is seriously one of the most heavy handed, almost laughable attempts at
being hip and cool I've ever seen. I thought it was a parody for a second.

Honestly could they scream any louder 'We are absolutely terrified of Apple.
Please love us again.'

~~~
prezjordan
The fields on their specs page are killer.

‎"OS, Light, Thin, Clear, Energized, Connected, Productive, Practical,
Configurable" Fire your marketing department. All of it.

~~~
nas
I thought you were kidding. Talk about cheesy.

------
makecheck
Apple was smart to release the iPad 2 with a design that practically "had to
have" a special cover. This allowed them to legally advertise the iPad's price
at one amount even though the majority of their customers would really be
paying more (i.e. $549 after shelling out for a $50 cover, instead of only the
base $499 amount).

Microsoft probably has the same plan here. A cover that contains a keyboard
can be even more expensive (say, $100 each instead of $50) and they can use
profits from covers to mask the true cost of tablets.

Then again, they've said nothing about the price...

~~~
mwilliamsgvsu
This is from the about page
(<http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/about.aspx>): "Surface comes with an
integrated kickstand and a revolutionary, 3mm thin, pressure sensitive cover
that doubles as a fully functioning keyboard and trackpad". If I had to guess
they will probably charge somewhere around the $50-$100 amount for the "Type
cover" which will probably be more preferable to use over the "Touch cover".

------
IanDrake
My client has started outfitting their sales reps with ipads complete with
covers that double as a stand. After a few weeks, they wanted keyboards, after
keyboards they wanted a stylus.

Personally, I think MS nailed it. This could be just a tablet to some people,
but it can be a whole lot more to the enterprise.

Now to see the pricing...

~~~
balloot
So your client gave its its sales reps iPads when they needed laptops? :)

~~~
IanDrake
No, they had laptops. The problem that Microsoft will solve is that people
want to have a low powered device that can be a laptop sometimes and a tablet
other times.

~~~
jiggy2011
The place where this could do well is people who want tablet computers but
also need something that integrates nicely with active directory and the rest
of the corporate Windows infrastructure.

The problem I have with all in one type devices is that they are competing
with just buying one of each, at a time when hardware prices seem to be
tumbling.

If your top sales guys ask for a tablet and a laptop maybe you just give them
one of each, rather than worrying about whether you can save a couple of
hundred $ with some all in one device that does neither especially well.

Also a lot of corporate workers do their work primarily using one or two
bespoke corporate apps which may be either web apps or some .Net (or even VB6)
app. In this case they want to roll out a lot of cheap devices but they may
not really care about portability because they don't want the devices taken
out of the building.

The other thing I wonder about is how good the paradigm of a keyboard plus a
touchscreen really is without a mouse, especially considering how cheap a
basic mouse is. One of the companies I do a lot of work for uses PCs that have
touch screens in addition to mice, but in reality the touch screen is almost
never used. I imagine this is mainly because the amount of arm movement
required to move your right hand over to the mouse is significantly less than
it is to raise it to a screen.

------
ja27
The Win8Pro version has about the same 42 W-h battery size as in the new iPad.
I doubt it can manage the same battery life, especially if it has to have
vents.

~~~
ConstantineXVI
On the flip side, as it runs full Windows, it's also your laptop.

For reference, I can get ~6hrs out of my 13" MBA, which packs a 50Wh battery.
Going to guess the Surface Pro is running a lower-clocked part (as the 11"
does, presumably for heat reasons), so with good power-management software at
least 6-7hrs doing tablet-y things is definitely plausible. Obviously, opening
Visual Studio or Photoshop will constrain that a bit, but these are things one
can't do on an iPad.

~~~
mrdodge
Most consumers don't use Photoshop or Visual Studio.

What do MOST consumers need full Windows for these days?

Office? Most consumers could get by on iWork.

I guess if they want to use their favorite virus scanner or anti-malware
program they would now be able to do that.

Windows dominates the market for consumer PCs because it's cheap and because
of games. These same games will not work well on tablets. iOS already has
enough games, Windows is at a severe disadvantage in terms of touch friendly
games.

------
greedo
Good to see MS trying to compete with the iPad. Not sure that they'll have any
more success than the Android based systems, but at least they're not ceding
the market to Apple.

I'll be very interested to see how the OEM partners view this.

The key will be in pricing. If it's $499 for the base version, it might have a
chance. Pricing it "on par with Ultrabook-class PCs" will leave it Zuned.

I'm also surprised that Microsoft was able to keep this under wraps for this
long.

------
plebu
Video requires Silverlight. Here is the Youtube version.
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=d...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dpzu3HM2CIo)

------
modarts
As a loyal Microsoft user/apologist for decades now, I have to say that i'm
cringing pretty hard after watching the coverage of this. This falls into
pretty much the same form factor as the failed netbook, with no discernible
distinction. Watching Microsoft throw itself off a cliff with everything from
Win 8 to this tablet is very difficult to watch.

------
Shivetya
One word : Fail.

They have gotten better at presentation, but they missed one key point of
Apple presentations.

Apple has learned that "Ships Today" is as important as the technology being
sold.

So who cares what it CAN do, its not available now. Its not even available
tomorrow, its available soon. All they did was give Apple a bigger opportunity
to undercut their buzz.

~~~
s_henry_paulson
If you're marketing only to consumers. Corporations who tend to purchase this
sort of thing typically plan their purchasing months in advance. I can almost
guarantee many companies who might have been thinking about laptop purchases
are going to wait a few months.

Also the release date for the device is tied to Windows 8, which is looking
like October, and then the pro version will follow 3 months after.

Since product lifecycles are somewhat lengthy, this doesn't really give any
competitor an advantage aside from using the products they already had in
their pipeline.

~~~
spiralpolitik
Two issues:

Firstly most corporations are just finishing up their multi-year Windows 7
rollouts so will probably be sitting out Windows 8. Given that corporate IT
likes to do evaluations, certifications and such you are probably looking at
least 12-18 months from now before any of these tablets are deployed on a
large scale.

Secondly a lot of corporations are scaling back from providing anything more
than the basic desktop or laptop and embracing BYOD for everything else. Even
if its a knock out product its going to be difficult to justify spending money
to roll it out especially given the other potential upgrades required (new
monitors etc).

If they had announced and launched this 2 years ago I think a lot of
corporations would have sat up and taken note. Announcing it now and with it
not shipping for up to six months it's too little too late.

------
wildmXranat
Why not offer video options, instead of shoving silverlight in our throat.

------
bootload
Just noticed from the Win8Pro version, _"Pen with Palm Block"_ a nice
innovation Apple hasn't bothered with yet. Question I want to know is, _"can
you develop"_ applications for the tablet, on the tablet?

~~~
InclinedPlane
The answer has to be yes, at least for the intel version. It runs full Windows
8 Pro on an x64 cpu. There's no reason you won't be able to fire up Visual
Studio on that sucker (other than perhaps performance considerations).

~~~
bootload
beaut, I see the distinction b/w RT & 8 Pro here ~
[http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/18/microsoft-surface-
tablets...](http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/18/microsoft-surface-tablets-the-
differences-between-rt-and-window/)

------
rnadna
The keynote talk ([http://cdn-smooth.ms-
studiosmedia.com/news/mp4_mq/06182012_S...](http://cdn-smooth.ms-
studiosmedia.com/news/mp4_mq/06182012_Surface_750k.mp4)) is informative. At
about minute 14, the demonstrator tries to show how IExplorer works on the
tablet. It fails. He keeps clicking here and there to try to restart it, then
he clues in that folks can see him doing this and he points it to his chest,
card-player style. Then he sprints to the podium to get another machine. I
felt for the poor guy.

------
phmagic
I was pretty excited about this device as well. Until I downloaded and played
with Windows 8. Windows 8's inconsistent and confusing UI blows. The Metro
integration into Windows 8 looked like a last minute decision because most
apps still have the Aero interface.

Microsoft has realized that the hardware to software integration is crucial to
a great user experience. However, they spent so much time on the hardware of
this tablet that I'm wondering if the Windows 8 software can match.

That said if this tablet is under $600, it will sell like hotcakes.

------
codex
Microsoft couldn't choose between ARM and x86 and this will be a huge problem
for them. It's emblematic of the terrible position that they're in, trying not
to be left behind while trying to refresh and extend their aging desktop OS
monopoly. These products do nothing well. A stylus? That's a bullet on a
PowerPoint, not a compelling feature. I felt sad watching them retell their
passionless internal talking points while giving a more pathetic version of an
Apple launch.

~~~
freehunter
Why choose? Apple doesn't choose, they use both. The two architectures are
used for completely different purposes; they both have significant advantages
and significant disadvantages. The consumer can choose which one has the
better featureset for their use case.

An active digitizer stylus which allows graphic designers and note takers to
write on the screen while rejecting finger input _is_ a compelling feature.

------
cyanbane
Xbox Live integration is still the trojan horse on this device.

~~~
uvTwitch
It's really been more of a trojan donkey on Windows Phone.

------
pmorici
Yuck, it looks like you can't use it w/o a table top so it's useless on a
plane, or train , or couch. It's like a half ass competitor to both iPad and
MacBook Air.

~~~
mediocregopher
I don't think it was meant to be a competitor to the Air, although we'll have
to wait on the pricing to see what Microsoft is actually trying to do here.
But in all probability this is an iPad competitor, and iPads fall short in the
exact same way in all those situations as well.

Also, planes generally have trays, and reclining in a couch puts your waist at
about hands level, so both of those aren't really that gimped by this setup.
Living in America I can't speak much for train travel but I would think they'd
have some kind of tray, but I could be wrong.

------
dcat247
The good: 1\. the magnesium body is tough and very weather resistant. Similar
to Nikons current camera line. 2\. stand and keyboard built in make this a
machine you can do very serious work on 3\. 600 dpi sample rate for drawing
means serious design work can be done as well. 4\. Like the Xbox, Zune HD,
natural keyboard, arc mouse, and their live cams: When Microsoft decides to
design it usually is awesome.

the bad: 1\. They said how much they believe in their partners yet only one
application was shown off (lightroom). No special hardware or software
partnerships. 2\. No discussion on ports, actual cpu speed, ram, bus speed, or
video capability. 3\. no discussion of pricing. 4\. The names are confusing
for consumers: windows rt, surface, etc. they should have just said its all
windows 8. Windows 8 for arm and windows 8 for intel. easy. 5\. It was not
available the day of the anouncement.

The BIGGEST problem: They did not show how this device is worth buying as part
of your Micosoft ecosystem of experience and devices. How does it work with
windows phone? they did not show it doing tricks with xbox and smartglass.
They did not show how this device should be important to you.

------
shriphani
Ignoring all the judgement we're passing on this product, a good engineering
effort deserves praise. Looking at this segment of the presentation
(<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jozTK-MqEXQ#t=41m32s>), with my extremely
limited understanding of manufacturing and physics, I am truly surprised how
they managed to fit so much functionality into 3mm.

------
speg
Nice, keyboard built into the cover (with trackpad).

------
w33ble
The Windows button is oriented horizontally. That's an interesting choice. Is
metro not really designed to be used on vertical orientation?

~~~
noveltyaccount
Both [http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
US/library/windows/apps/hh46542...](http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
US/library/windows/apps/hh465427#decide_how_to_layout_your_app)

> Decide how to lay out your app in each view. Windows 8 supports landscape,
> portrait, snapped, and fill views. Users can put your app in any of these
> views at any time, and you want your app to look and work great in each one.

~~~
w33ble
Yeah, I thought I read that it works both ways. This device is clearly meant
to be used in a horizontal orientation though based on the ports, the cameras
and the Windows button. I guess it's positioned as more of a laptop
replacement than a tablet, so it kinda makes sense. It's an interesting choice
though. I don't own any tablets, but I was under the impression that most
people use them in a vertical orientation.

------
ioanpopovici
I think this is a step forward for Microsoft, and besides, end-users will
benefit form the Microsoft-Apple competition. They innovate and we get better
devices :)

Im an Apple user, but earn my living as a system admin for windows and linux
servers. I get all my work done from my hackintosh , and if nothing changes
probably will not go back on using windows anytime soon. I truly hate windows,
especially Vista which made me turn to Mac OS and never look back.

Despite all this I will never become so narrow minded as most apple fanboys
and dismiss everything new.

I'm tired of reading/hearing: "Apple has already done this, Microsoft stoled
their ideea", "Apple knows the right way to make a product", "This will never
work for Microsoft", "Microsoft failed again", "OMG look at the product page,
Its crap so the product must be a pile of dong too!"

Common people, what is wrong with you?

I say good job Microsoft, finaly something promising. How well it would do in
the real world remains to be seen, but I think there is a huge market for this
device.

------
senthilnayagam
Have seen a pre-production device in Bangalore manufactured by Samsung.

I expect Pricing and distribution would be announced by Samsung in a seperate
event .

The tablet app I saw looked good but it had touch responsiveness issue, and
internet access was slow, saw the app crash and restart , but not sure if that
was hardware related as it was a beta app.

~~~
noamsml
Are you sure you're not thinking of the BUILD tablet, running the Developer
Preview (roughly akin to an alpha)? Unless I'm mistaken, the Surface is a
Microsoft Hardware product, distributed by Microsoft under the Microsoft
brand.

------
postfuturist
This device doesn't look like it will work well in my lap. I use a 5 year old
laptop that I'm pretty happy with. I have a tablet that I never use but that's
mostly because I don't like touchscreen interfaces, except on phones where
they are lesser of 2 evils (the other evil being super-tiny keyboards).

~~~
endtime
Unless you have a very short lap, why can't you do this?

    
    
        +  +
        |ta|
        |kb|
        ----
    

Where the +s are your knees, "ta" is tablet, "kb" is keyboard, and the ---- is
your waist.

~~~
ConstantineXVI
There's no solid hinge to keep the screen at a comfortable angle. Even with
the kickstand, if you move your knees, the kickstand falls out of place.

~~~
glhaynes
It's astonishing to me how little discussion there has been of this. One of
the primary places people use a laptop is, well, in their lap, and this
doesn't look to be usable for that. I can't imagine that not being hugely
frustrating.

------
CHsurfer
My wife has a bad back, and even carrying a 13" laptop around for and extended
time causes her a lot of pain. She would kill for a tablet with a keyboard
that she could use for work while traveling (mostly, power point, word and a
bit of Excel).

Now, if only her company (60k+ employees) would upgrade from XP...

------
EternalFury
The problem is that you never know how long Microsoft will stand behind any of
their hardware products. They held firm with Xbox, they surrendered with
everything else. Last year, they canned their tablet plans. This year, they
come back with a new tablet plan. Etc.

Hysterical or desperate? I do not know.

------
dharma1
The only reason to announce hardware more than 6 months prior to availability
is to deter people from buying iPads and Macbook Airs in the meanwhile.

I've played with Win8 running on an Atom tablet and while the hardware sucked,
the idea of being able to do real work on legacy apps (Photoshop, 3DS Max,
video editing etc) on it is nice. The x86 Surface is definitely a laptop
replacement.

Not convinced about Metro yet though - depends on the apps we'll see on it I
guess.

I also have an iPad with the Logitech Ultra Thin BT keyboard cover and I
really like it. If only iOS had CMD/TAB keyboard shortcut for swapping between
apps and more open file system I could do a fair bit of web dev work on it. My
13" Macbook Pro feels like a brick compared to the iPad+keyboard cover.

Still can't do Photoshop/3D/etc work on the iPad though.

------
prezjordan
I'm not sure how I feel about this. I feel like there's nothing "new" here.
Can someone prove me wrong?

~~~
kennywinker
The smartcover-with-keyboard thing is pretty impressive.

~~~
yottabyte47
That's what I thought at first and then thought 'I bet that feels like typing
on a microfiber cloth, and the keys can't have much travel, if any at all.

~~~
jules
Can't imagine it being worse than typing on a glass plate where the virtual
keyboard takes up screen real estate. However the real question is how well
using the touchscreen works while in upright mode, perhaps it's not that
stable and touching it will wobble/move it.

------
pud
It looks cool but what is with Microsoft's naming conventions. Apparently the
official name for this product is "Surface for Windows RT," as it is
referenced here:

<http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/about.aspx>

~~~
vena
i just don't understand why they named the OS after the API it's restricted
to, something consumers will never encounter. the end result of WinRT is just
Metro, something marketable and relatable. why the hell don't you just call it
Windows Metro, Microsoft?

------
forgotAgain
Can anyone explain the timing and placement for this announcement? Why now and
why outside of a major conference and on such short notice?

Is it supposed to be a hip marketing ploy or is there something else happening
they wanted to announce ahead of?

~~~
spiralpolitik
I'm wondering this as well. The only thing I can come up with is Google IO is
next week. Maybe Microsoft got wind of something and wanted to get this out
ahead as a spoiler.

------
laconian
Silverlight video. Ugh.

~~~
jlarocco
The video played in Flash, via YouTube for me.

I don't have Silverlight installed, maybe it fellback to Youtube?

------
capex
All well and good. But the UI divide between Metro and Win 7 is just there.. I
see no attempt to change any aspects of the traditional windows UI. Metro
still seems to be a shell unable to hide the real UI underneath.

------
greedo
Does anyone know if Windows 8 (or whatever is powering the Pro version) is
resolution independent? Or will developers have to compile a version for the
Surface Pro, and a different version for the x86 desktop market?

------
dhughes
At first glance I thought it was a dual screen (MS Courier's big brother) with
the lower screen as the keyboard.

I liked the Courier concept I wish Microsoft released it, the Courier would
have be a perfect match with Windows 8.

------
sageikosa
Microsoft Surface == enterprise manageable tablets. IT organizations familiar
with managing fleets of ubiquitous Windows workstations (desktop or notebook)
will be able to now manage cheaper Windows convertibles.

Similar to how Apple (and Microsoft, and Google) would drop machines in
schools to indoctrinate the next generation, Microsoft is going after users
where they use computers the most: in the office.

Those that do not get "Surface" per se, will at least be familiar with it in a
few years, after they have been exposed to other Windows 8 profiles at work
(or on new home computers).

------
forgetcolor
i can't believe they've got the windows logo on the front bezel. super ugly
and distracting. even apple, who loves its logo as much as any corporation,
kept the front of the ipad logo-free.

~~~
snprbob86
It looks to be some sort of "Home" button. I suspect the icon is intended to
match the "Windows Key".

------
KeyBoardG
I think what is great about the Surface line is that now other OEMs will have
to design and produce even better hardware to compete. This is very good news
for the consumer.

------
twelvechairs
I'm really hopeful for a tablet (read: something light with a decent
interface) where I can do general-purpose computing (read: install my own
stuff and have reasonable processing power) so I really hope this succeeds on
these levels. Some of the ideas at least are very worthy.

Having said that, there is nowhere near enough detail to make an informed
judgement on anything yet (except the PR strategy - which is [pretty
laughably] a poor imitation of what Apple does).

Still. We live in hope.

------
nadam
Quite promising from someone who has bean dead* for at least 5 years. :)

* <http://www.paulgraham.com/microsoft.html>

------
SpikeDad
Using the Surface name is a total sleazy Microsoft move. The table has nothing
whatsoever to do with the "Surface" technology they developed unless the
screen can magically detect the specially coded or shaped components that a
Surface table can detect.

And if Apple released a new product with the joke of a website and spec sheet
that MS just did they'd be scorn of anyone that knows how to type.

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
The web-site is bad; but you have to give Microsoft credit where it is due:
the new device is something new and does push what it means to be a tablet.

------
xelipe
Does anyone know the estimated retail price for it?

~~~
fishbacon
Probably in the iPad range, I can't imagine a successful tablet being more
expensive than the iPad.

~~~
uvTwitch
I'd expect to see at least the pro variant in the ipad-laptop price range,
since it fills the role of both a laptop and a tablet.

------
riobard
Funny that the spec sheet is a PDF, which none of Microsoft's shipping
operating systems or browsers have native support for.

------
rglover
How you can tell they don't get it in one sentence (tucked in the bottom right
corner):

"Images are design renderings and not photographs."

~~~
noamsml
Oh come on. That is possibly the most absurd criticism I've ever heard. They
"don't get it" because their marketing team used a design rendering instead of
a photograph? Clearly, a product shouldn't be judged on features, user
experience, price, reliability, performance, or potential for changing the
market. It should be judged on whether the little glossy pictures on the
website were photos that were 'shopped until they might as well be faked or
CGI renderings that are pretty much good enough to be real.

~~~
rglover
It's not absurd. It's premature on their behalf. What was preventing them from
waiting until they had a physical prototype to show off? Nothing. In this
light, it looks like an idea that _may_ exist, not something consumers can
actually get their hands on. Further, no, it should be judged on more than
just the pictures. I fully agree with all of the others comments that elicit
disappointment for a lack of feature/spec lists and pricing. The whole thing
is botched.

~~~
noamsml
They showed off a working physical prototype at the press conference.

------
dennisgorelik
I just see how ad designers for that picture/video prepare their creatives on
their macs and fill dirty for selling their souls to M$.

That also brought me another memory: Zune. So much hype and so poor results.

Microsoft should stick with desktop/business software and keep milking it. MS
is not capable of doing anything else profitably anymore.

~~~
someperson
Keep in mind they've sold a lot of Xbox 360s and Kinects. Not sure how much
profit they've made, but it shows MS can make commercially successful,
desirable hardware.

~~~
dennisgorelik
Microsoft invested way more in gaming division than it made.

I doubt Microsoft would ever recover that investment.

------
dutchbrit
Pros: Keyboard as cover USB

Cons: Thicker (and probably heavier) than the iPad

I have to say, Windows 8 is looking pretty good for touchscreen devices.

~~~
dpark
The RT (ARM) version is slightly thinner than the iPad. 9.3mm vs the iPad's
9.4mm. It is about 25g heavier, though.

------
nemo1618
Anyone happen to know if it uses their new ultra-responsive (1ms) touchscreen
technology? I remember being pretty excited about that when they demoed it,
but it seemed like it wouldn't be rolled out for a while.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOvQCPLkPt4>

------
malkia
I didn't see anywhere a way to adjust the angle of the stand. I constantly
change the angle of my laptop monitor, and sometimes even the one at work.

Now this device would want me to adjust myself to stand at the right angle
looking it. Hopefully it would be still readable from other angles, but then
how would you touch it?

------
vivekl
Watched the video. It appears MS is making a magnetic keyboard! ...And you get
some sort of a tablet with it.

------
ebtalley
Is there some visual distortion going on or is that tablet really thick?
Reminds me of the newton.

[http://www.microsoft.com/global/surface/en/us/publishingimag...](http://www.microsoft.com/global/surface/en/us/publishingimages/new/gallery_3_large.jpg)

~~~
rcgs
It's .2mm thinner than the iPad.

~~~
Turing_Machine
Only if you don't count all the important bits they've crammed into the
"cover" (e.g., the accelerometer).

~~~
Elepsis
The fact that the cover has an accelerometer shouldn't be interpreted to
assume that the tablet doesn't.

------
drcube
Can I install Linux?

~~~
drivebyacct2
On the x86 one, sure. On the ARM one, no. OEMs are not allowed to enable user
key enrollment on ARM devices.

~~~
smlacy
Um, not necessarily with UFEI and firmware locking. I'd say until someone gets
their hands on one, that it's a big unknown.

~~~
drivebyacct2
The UEFI spec calls for allowing user enrollment of keys, or at the very least
disabling the checks. It can be done, this has been discussed to death here
already.

<http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/12368.html>

edit: recoiledsnake makes an interesting point above.

------
gooorack
The keyboard on the cover looks very cool. Definitely attacking iPad and Air
at the same time.

------
liamondrop
"Hands off entertainme"? Who designed the mobile version of the ‪Surface‬
website?
[https://twitter.com/designdaisuki/status/214878299669790720/...](https://twitter.com/designdaisuki/status/214878299669790720/photo/1)

------
aymeric
On the homepage: "Images are design renderings and not photographs."

they are far from releasing it.

~~~
InclinedPlane
They demoed a working one at the press conference. I would be shocked if this
didn't release the same day as Windows 8.

~~~
aymeric
Oh ok, what did you think of it?

~~~
InclinedPlane
I was pretty impressed. It's a huge indication that MS is taking the evolution
of the computer very seriously and are making a very strong response.

For myself, I'm interested in the device and I may end up buying one, it looks
like it could suit my needs very well. However, what's good for me may not be
good for MS. I fear that Windows 8 may not be enough of a seamless, hassle-
free experience for the average user as the iPad seems to be. If MS only gets
the high-end power users in the tablet and PC market I think they have a very
real risk of get squeezed out of the market between android, apple, and linux.
This is a strong move, and they're still at the top of the market, but the
market has been disrupted and they need _several_ strong moves to keep on the
top of the game.

------
agumonkey
Anyone knows how the cover keyboard is built ? is this a 'fake' dumb plastic
molded keyboard using a capacitive layer underneath ? I wish it is, so that
the whole keyboard could be an analog sensing surface if needed.

------
obilgic
"Unexpected error occured." ?

------
phaus
The tablet looks nice, but the keyboard looks as if it will be one of the
worst keyboards in the history of the universe. As someone who loves the idea
of a convertible tablet, I really do hope that I'm wrong.

------
discordance
Their launch video is almost as tacky as the Asus Padphone's... where's the
taste these days?

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqjoRMHyYQc>

------
el-mapache
Did they run out of money to design the back or something? They can't have
Jony Ive but was there no one else they could hire to approximate 60s era
Braun? Like a 4th year design student?

~~~
marquis
I know - I opened the site and my first thought was, oh it looks quite nice.
Then went to gallery and my heart sank that no-one had bothered to look at the
thing side-on.

------
dsirijus
Let's talk a little about 'kickstand'.

Am I wrong in believing this hasn't got adjustable angle and is useless if the
device isn't on an actual desk?

Seems like the Achilles' heel of the entire device to me.

~~~
nudded
That seems to be true. It also seems to lack the ability to lay flat on a
slightly elevated angle.

------
prawn
Some future popularity could come down to how flexible they are with that USB
port. Can you plug in a thumbdrive and watch videos or play music? Extract or
back-up photos?

~~~
noveltyaccount
It's Windows. Of course you can plug in a thumb drive. Everything you can do
on Windows, you'll still be able to do on Windows.

------
ameyamk
After reading several reviews, and looking at MS Surface website, I am still
not clear what this is. Is it going to run full featured Windows OS? Whats the
price point going to be? Is 10.2 inch keyboard really going to make it
possible for me to type things fast? (Remember those notebook keyboards? I
could not really type on it). Is Microsoft going to build hardware for this?
If no, who is building it? When is it going to be available on the market? Oh
common give me something. All I get it, is Microsoft now has a tablet, which
has a keyboard. thats it... cmon. I need bit more details than that.

~~~
Maascamp
If you read "several reviews" and still don't know that it will run Windows 8
then you have issues beyond what tablet to buy next.

------
greedo
Can't wait to see how well the Pro version runs with Norton or McAfee burning
up cpu cycles. Hope that's not the "desktop" experience they're aiming for.

~~~
kenjackson
Win8 comes with built-in antivirus. But of course you can buy Norton or McAfee
if you like. In which case you have bigger problems than your CPU cycles.

~~~
greedo
And if the corporate world is a large target for the Surface, then it'll be
expected to run with A/V software from the big vendors, regardless of what MS
bundles with it. I have to run McAfee on each and everyone of my RHEL servers,
despite the majority of them not having unfettered access to the Internet nor
an email client.

------
politician
_off-topic, meta_ In my brief survey of the home page, this is the only
article with more comments than points. I wonder how often that happens.

------
riobard
Actually the ”ClearType Display” makes sense if they cannot provide Retina-
like screens at reasonable price and have to settle for subpixel rendering…

~~~
glhaynes
If so, then either you can't use it in portrait mode or text looks
significantly worse when you do.

------
jimparkins
Watched the video - what struck me most is that it felt just like TopGear -
when they introduce a new supercar and they have a minute or so intro.

------
a_macgregor
Seems really interesting, I'm just hoping we can get at least a little bit of
the 'spirit' of the courier on the design of the Microsoft "surface"

------
gyros23
I'm curious what J. Allard (MS Courier) is thinking about this piece of
technology. Especially about the one with the pen.

Hello enterprise ready tablets!

------
malachismith
Honestly... as much as this might sound interesting, I don't understand
Microsoft's decision to not announce availability OR pricing.

------
thfc06
that video was hilarious. Microsoft really outdid themselves this time. And
what was with the weird dimensions of the video player?

~~~
joezydeco
Who cares!?! It's world's first dubstep tablet!

~~~
nosse
nah, I'm wating for the drum and bass remix...

edit: googled "dubstep tablet", first link
[http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-surface-tablet-on-
video...](http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-surface-tablet-on-video-
complete-with-dubstep)

------
kenrikm
Wow that thing looks almost exactly like a iPad with a smartcover. I thought
they would have at least tried something different.

------
cryodesign
As the price point is a deciding factor, do you think Microsoft will subsidize
the Surface as they did with the XBox?

------
aswanson
Microsoft had the touch-surface interface back like a year before the iphone
came out. But they rolled it out as a $10000 restuarant/menu interface instead
of a computing/consumer device one. Classic good tech/bad customer targeting
failure. [http://www.microsoft.com/en-
us/news/press/2007/may07/05-29ms...](http://www.microsoft.com/en-
us/news/press/2007/may07/05-29mssurfacepr.aspx)

~~~
msbarnett
That Surface, the table thing, was based on multiple IR cameras tracking
finger interactions. It was never miniaturizable to a portable device.

Not good tech, wrong market -- totally different tech, niche market.

(also it debuted 5 months after the original iPhone, for whatever that's
worth)

~~~
ConstantineXVI
I believe the current round of e-readers actually use IR-based touch sensors.
Still wouldn't compete on a phone for marketing reasons (thanks to the need
for a sunken-in screen), but definitely shrinkable.

~~~
msbarnett
They do! But those IR touch screens are actually different technology again
from the quite literally cameras that the Surface used.

IR touch screens like the ones the Sony reader and Kindle use have been around
for ages in POS machines and the like.

On the other hand the Surface (table) was using computer vision algorithms on
realtime near-IR images of the table surface to recognize multiple touches and
gestures.

------
mikeevans
I'm impressed. Good looking hardware, and you can do actual work on it. I hope
it's priced competitively too.

------
cryptozeus
Does the color of the windows and background changes to the color of the
keyboard as soon as we attach it ?

------
esolyt
Simply having a full-sized keyboard gives this product the edge over Asus
Transformer series.

------
timinman
'Looks nice. I bet it's expensive. If price were a feature, they would have
mentioned it.

------
shuaib
Does it do landscape only? I can't find an image displaying the device in
portrait.

------
antidoh
Twitt? Do people say that? (On the right, in the grey, between the two
Microsofts.)

------
jcfrei
thinking as an average consumer I can only look at this as a marginally uglier
(looks like it's lower quality) and thicker tablet. if isn't significantly
cheaper than the ipad why should i buy it?

------
anonymoushn
I wonder if Microsoft's new keyboard will work with my iPad.

~~~
hollerith
It is easier to carry two flat objects around when they have the same
dimensions and can be "stacked up" against each other, but this cover cannot
have anything close to the same dimensions as an iPad because they have
drastically different aspect ratios (what looks like 16:9 versus the 4:3 of
the iPad).

------
heifetz
when you can't beat them, join them.

------
Mordor
Touchscreen MacBook Air anyone?

------
MatthewPhillips
Yes please.

------
2muchcoffeeman
'Coming soon'

Doesn't count unless you ship.

------
rkwz
[OT] 40K likes and 0 tweets? Something seems wrong here.

------
demoo
Is the OS for this Windows 8 or modified Windows Phone?

~~~
andyjohnson0
Windows 8. They plan to ship two models: one to run full Win 8 Pro on Intel
with Metro and traditional UI, and another ARM-based with Windows 8 RT.

------
th5
is this a joke? their gallery page images link directly to the images in the
most unprofessional way. could've at least lightboxed it.

~~~
Smudge
Whatever was serving their .js files seemed to be down.

------
mromanuk
Microsoft invented the iPad!

------
anaheim
I generally hate Microsoft stuff (including Windows 8), but this is a
refreshingly original and good design (personal opinion, of course.) Since
Zune and XBox, Microsoft seem to have sharpened their game to the point where
they are capable of delivering small, compact, and useful hardware which
functions well. Some people mocked the Microsoft Mouse in the initial stages
of the presentation, but come to think of it, most people I know prefer
Microsoft's ergonomic laptop mice to Apple's Mighty Mouse, which, quite
frankly, is rubbish.

Priced at the right point, this could take aim at a number of different
devices, which it seems to fit at the smooth spot between:

\- Stylus-capable tablets you can actually write on (IBM x series)

\- Small media-capable tablets like the iPad/Kindle Fire (for consuming
eBooks, media and the Web).

\- eBook readers like the standard Kindle. I don't know what digital Ink
capable means, but if it goes any way towards making eBooks more readable than
they are on the Fire/iPad, consumers will buy this device just so they don't
have to buy different things for watching videos and reading books with lesser
eyestrain.

I bet that both this and the Lumia and other Windows phones are going to be
massive in markets like India, which know Microsoft and Nokia well, and have
never seen much of Apple tech.

------
drivebyacct2
[http://www.microsoft.com/global/surface/en/us/renderingasset...](http://www.microsoft.com/global/surface/en/us/renderingassets/surfacespecsheet.pdf)

WinRT (ARM) and a Intel version. Multitouch keyboard. Full HD on the Intel
tablet on 10.6 inch screen (nearly the same density as the MBP Retina)

Also, funny the comments here, the iPad edges are tapered, but the RT version
is 9.3mm and Apple says the iPad is 9.4mm deep.

Why oh why are they pushing Silverlight to show the video?

~~~
MBCook
_WinRT (ARM) and a Intel version_

The dual CPU thing still worries me. I think it's going to cause a ton
confusion for consumers when Windows 8 comes out. These two tablets look the
same, they're named the same, they use the same accessories. One will cost
more than the other. They look like a 13" MacBook Air vs 13" MacBook Pro.

But it _won't_ be, because they run completely different OSes. The ARM one
won't run your old software. It won't run the windows desktop you're used to.
Some big game comes out? I wonder if it will run on WinRT. Since all the
devices will have lower specs, will AAA titles be available?

You could buy the more expensive one. I bet it has lower battery life. It
won't come with Office, so not only do you have to pay $200 more for the
device (random guess), but you also have to pay $100-$500 for a copy of Office
on top just to match what's on the ARM tablet.

The tablets are clearly quite different. They should be positioned
differently, they should look physically different.

I really want to see how consumers take to Intel vs. ARM. I can't help but
think it's going to be a disaster.

As for these tablets? The cover looks great, and MS does know how to make
hardware (I've _loved_ my Natural keyboards since '95 or '96). It's great to
know there will be one device on the market that (should be) well made and not
crazily under-specced for cost reasons.

But does all this make third parties very nervous. Are these "demo" units to
start the market, or the first wave of MS competing directly?

~~~
freehunter
Microsoft said on their technet blog that their ARM devices will be clearly
labeled and marketed as not being able to run traditional Windows software.

------
drivebyacct2
I'm intensely curious how one sits on the couch and uses this with the
keyboard. I'm afraid it's not going to work...

~~~
glhaynes
Yep. There will be people buying them to replace laptops only to find that
they can't use them in their laps.

------
andyl
The cover-with-keyboard looks like a great idea. Can't wait to give it a try.

------
jamesbowman
Zunepad

------
SpikeDad
How'd this get to #1 post so fast?

~~~
aik
Are you suggesting this isn't newsworthy?

The company behind the most used OS by the mass market on the planet is
announcing their own hardware for the next version of their OS. Their own
hardware for their own OS is something they haven't done in their ~30 year
history. How is this not major news?

~~~
jimster01
Because "Their own hardware" is still just the same crap that all the other
manufacturers would have come up with, (and did come up with) for Microsoft to
put their badge on. It's not a technological leap forward nor does it
drastically alter the user interface paradigm.

Worth seeing, Yes, but definitely not a top of the list worthy post.

~~~
ioanpopovici
I disagree with you, it is their customized hardware, I cant see them fitting
standard computer components into a enclosure that thin. Almost everything is
custom an for Microsoft it's a big technolohical leap because they've never
done this before.

~~~
nosse
Before I read this I thought it was just some design and people going "WHOA"
or "wtf" about it. But your comment made me understand. Sad that it's bottom
of the list. There should have been something about the thickness
consideration in the link description.

