
Client won’t pay, my final resort - pixxel
http://pixxel.co/feed/client-wont-pay-my-final-resort
======
davidjgraph
We sell a software library and get exactly the same thing. When the payment is
late enough I email them and say "your license is revoked".

The person/people I'm emailing never ever know that there's absolutely nothing
we can do at a technical level to stop the component working. They say "oh my,
please please enable it". Well, if you pay, sure. Payment comes as fast as is
humanly possible.

In the case of design, my assumption (correct me if you've tried it and it
doesn't work) is to retain copyright of the material until full payment is
made. Prior to that point, you license them to use the stuff and only assign
copyright when you have all the cash.

~~~
bdcravens
Clever - I'd never considered the copyright approach. If they don't pay, you
then have legitimate claim for a DMCA take-down.

~~~
davidjgraph
Copyright law is fairly standard at an international level, DMCA is US
specific, it's a layer on top of copyright law and isn't actually necessary in
the majority of cases.

If you use a copyrighted material in a manner you're not licensed to do, you
are committing copyright theft in most countries you'd do business with, and
that is the legal infringement that would form your case.

~~~
bdcravens
True - just replace "DCMA take down notice" with "remedies for violating
copyright".

------
bdcravens
This is extortion, and is subject to criminal penalties.

It is lying: you say legal action is underway. You've done nothing but mail a
letter. The moment someone says legal proceeding are underway, the other party
needs to shut up, and refer all communications through attorneys. At that
point, you'd probably find yourself needing to hire an attorney at
considerable expense.

I suspect you could be sued for defamation: claiming legal action when none
existed can harm reputation. If you're not a business entity with personal
protection (such as LLC or corp, depending on your locale) they can destroy
you financially: house, property, bankruptcy. No client is worth that to me.

Even if you were to sue, this website might work against you. It'd definitely
come up in proceedings, and may cause the judge to grant some leniency even if
your client was ordered to pay.

The warning site doesn't identify you, so if the client could care less
(people launching (companyname)-sucks.com all the time), they'll just ignore
you. Then you're out hosting and domain fees.

If the client goes the cybersquatting claim route, they can take the warning
domain, and you can levied fine of up to $100,000 USD.
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybersquatting#Legal_resolution](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybersquatting#Legal_resolution))

Glad it worked out for you, but I think you're correct in your warning that no
one should ever do this.

~~~
jaynos
>It is lying: you say legal action is underway.

As in, I'm starting to look for an attorney to explore my legal options. This
one works in residential construction also ("I'm beginning the process of
finding a lawyer to speak to about putting a lien on your house." I knew it
wasn't legally possible in most situations, but I was definitely allowed to
ask my lawyer again).

~~~
ctdonath
_I was definitely allowed to ask my lawyer again_

"Mr. Lawyer, can I ask you a couple of questions?"

"Yes. What is your other question?"

------
famousactress
I highly recommend you watch the "Fuck you. Pay me." talk -
[http://vimeo.com/22053820](http://vimeo.com/22053820)

~~~
jmngomes
You just reminded me of the closing words of Killing Them Softly
([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V6GHnxEJjg](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V6GHnxEJjg))

------
rwhitman
I don't think extortion is a great move. That sounds like something I would
avoid in even the worst circumstances.

I tend to use psychology with late paying clients. I say things that affront
their ego about not being able to pay. Things like "looks like you're short on
cash, business not going so well?", or jabs about their accounting department.
Also I harass them about the invoice the first day its overdue, and everyone I
have contact with is CC'ed especially the CEO if I have contact with them. I'm
the nicest guy to work with, but when it comes to payment I'm a real asshole,
and I let them know it.

A lot of times late payments are simply the accountants managing debt by
putting freelancers, who typically don't charge interest or have collections
mechanisms, on the backburner in favor of paying off vendors or lenders with
steep interest rates. Introducing late payment fees, and reminders of those
fees tends to expedite the payment in that case

~~~
atarian
"Sometimes you got to rob to keep your riches." \- Tucco, Breaking Bad

------
incision
My first thought reading this was "Only a month?".

Then I realized that in the real world that's probably quite a while to wait.

I'm accustomed to dealing with government where 4-6+ months is typical and
complaining will see you blacklisted. This is part of the reason huge
companies are able to rent seek on such work, many small to medium businesses
would have a hard time floating 6+ months of payroll continuously.

~~~
brokentone
While government and large businesses often have 30,60+ day payment cycles, at
least your contact will respond to you. This sounds like a different
situation.

~~~
incision
_> "While government and large businesses often have 30,60+ day payment
cycles, at least your contact will respond to you."_

We'd be ecstatic with 30-60 day schedules and I wouldn't consider "Your
services are no longer welcome here" to be a desirable "response".

 _> "This sounds like a different situation."_

Obviously.

~~~
pyre

      | I wouldn't consider "Your services are no
      | longer welcome here" to be a desirable "response".
    

So they don't tell you when you are getting paid, and were you to enquire as
to a date, or general timeline, they would drop you like a bad habit?

------
illdave
Always, always have a contract in place before you start any work.

AIGA have a very useful, free-to-use invoice you can use for design projects:
[http://www.aiga.org/standard-agreement/](http://www.aiga.org/standard-
agreement/) (although it's perhaps a bit more heavy-handed than what I use for
consulting agreements).

~~~
jamii
Similarly, [http://www.pcg.org.uk/SCJ](http://www.pcg.org.uk/SCJ) is pretty
useful for any UK freelancer.

------
JangoSteve
I'm glad the author acknowledges that this really isn't a good way of doing
business and only really a solution to the realization that _you_ fucked up by
not having a clear agreement and payment plan in place prior to starting work.

One suggestion I would have made would be to remove the "you are clearly
avoiding contact with me" line, as contributes nothing to the threat, and it
makes a huge assumption which you have no way of knowing whether it's true or
not. And how bad would you feel if they came back with a truly legitimate
reason for not getting back to you, like maybe your contact had a death in
their immediate family and took a 1-month leave of absence?

I can't tell you how many times I've misinterpreted tone, action, or inaction
over email, text, and telecommunications. I've finally just learned to stop
trying to guess a person's motivations or tone within any medium which leaves
out so much context.

~~~
nawitus
>that you fucked up by not having a clear agreement and payment plan in place
prior to starting work

Clients can ignore payment even when there's a clear agreement and payment
plan place in place prior to starting work. How? Not paying.

------
RyanZAG
I had this exact problem awhile back with an iOS app. Luckily, Apple has a
nice form available for submitting a copyright dispute[1]. Long story short, I
got paid. Just remember, you retain any code you own until it is signed over
to the client. Especially for iOS dev, when someone gets an email from Apple
legal, they tend to pay up.

[1] [http://www.apple.com/legal/internet-
services/itunes/appstore...](http://www.apple.com/legal/internet-
services/itunes/appstorenotices/)

~~~
asmithmd1
While it is true you retain copyright on code you write until it has been
assigned in writing (US copyright law stipulates that it can not be assigned
verbally.) However, the situation may not be completely clear, unless you have
been very careful you have probably given them an "implied license" to use
your code.

~~~
RyanZAG
I'd say an "implied license" would be contingent on payment. eg, if you
verbally agree to let them use the code and quote them a fee, failure to pay
the fee should definitely disqualify from that "implied license".

Same way as if I pick up a copy of windows from a shop without paying or
figure out a way to download a valid windows license without paying - I don't
have the license as I never actually paid for it, regardless of any agreements
Microsoft might have written in the box about the license.

------
pathy
All this could be avoided, or at least mitigated, by a proper contract?

His way of solving the problem sounds awfully close to blackmail to me. Sure,
he deserves to be paid but is that the right way to go about it? Start with a
contract, deliver final product upon receiving the final payment etc.

I know that it is not always possible to wait with shipping until you have
been paid but, depending on the client, it should be in most cases.

~~~
larrys
"by a proper contract?"

Contract implies you also need a stick which is legal action. Obviously
depending on the amount of money involved that might simply not be an option.

While not entirely relevant I will bring the following into play, a saying,
that goes something like "if you owe the bank $10,000 you have a problem if
you owe the bank 10,000,000 the bank has a problem".

~~~
Argorak
This cannot be generalized, as it _heavily_ depends on jurisdiction. OP for
example is from the UK.

For example (IANAL and everything):

In germany, if a client hasn't payed an invoice without challenging it, you
can get a court order for payment pretty quickly. The legal fees for this are
quite small and paid by the client. All you need is proper documentation of
the process.

Clients avoid this like the pest, especially if their complaints are not
expected hold. Once the court started dunning the other party, most ways of
negitation are lost.

The first thing I tell clients is: "if there is any problem with invoices,
speak to us immediately, if you don't respond we will go the direct legal
route."

This happens rather often. Most of the time, clients are silent because _they
cannot pay_ because of miscalculation or other reasons. Sometimes, they are
ashamed because of this. So they try to sit it out until better times - which
might never come. Talking to them about paying in slices etc. often helps. But
often, you need to bring out the big threats to even get them talking.

Also, in any case: if you have the slightest doubt that a client goes towards
insolvency, push this as far as you can, especially on the legal side.
Insolvency will mostly be handled by order of creditors - try to get your
title before everyone else. This might seem hard on a personal level, but this
is how it works.

For all this, you often don't need a contract as long as there is
documentation of the process. A signed offer by the client goes a long way.

A detailed contract with further ways is always good in that regard (and
should _always_ be in place), especially when it comes to licensing or for
clear payment terms. E.g., it handles the following scenario:

* A client enters insolvency

* It is decided to sell the assets of the company (including the almost-ready software you produced) to a third party (a classic firesale)

* Some other creditor has preferred rights to the money, so although your client has money now, it is for someone else.

In this case, a contract that regulates that the rights to said piece of
software are only the clients once the final payment is there means that the
buying party and your client _have to talk to you_ or the deal is off. That
could mean that they have to pay you to make the deal happen, giving you
preference over all other creditors that want the money out of that deal. And
buyers are really careful about such stuff, because anything else involves
uncalculatable risk (including you making them loose the full rights on the
thing they bought). No legal action on your side involved.

I am in the freelancing business for quite a while now and I never took legal
action. But I often threatened taking legal action and you better have grounds
to back that up and make the other party see a risk to be on the loosing side.

Thats the other advantage of contracts: threatening with legal action cannot
be seen as extorsion because it works though proper channel. Don't fear the
legal system, use that other people fear it.

Also, as hard as it may sound: never enter business relationships that you
cannot pay the legal costs for.

~~~
larrys
Good comment but in any case.

"never enter business relationships that you cannot pay the legal costs for."

More or less would indicate not to enter into a business relationship that is
very small which of course does make sense since the amount you would lose is
very small.

"you can get a court order for payment pretty quickly"

Can't speak for the UK but have won court orders in the US. Doesn't mean you
will actually get money. Could be entity folds or further delays. Or there are
extra time consuming steps required to get the money. Once again, at least in
the US. Also in us something called "confession of judgement" but once again
can't get blood from a stone or a moving stone.

"clients are silent because _they cannot pay_ "

Exactly. No money doesn't matter who is compelling what.

"don't need a contract as long as there is documentation of the process. A
signed offer by the client goes a long way."

Agree. A contract is an agreement. Can take many forms and be ultimately
enforceable. Doesn't have to necessarily have a degree of formality either.

"But I often threatened taking legal action"

Would say thought that one thing to consider is that in certain organizations
threatening legal action can be seen as a bluff or simply make the recipient
able to pass it off to the legal department where it's not their problem
anymore and all motivation to settle is lost. What I have found that often
works is to be a "pain in the ass" where the person simply wants you to stop
pestering.

~~~
Argorak
Thanks for your comment as well, this is all very true.

On threatening: yes, sure. True professionals will invoke lawyers once you
speak about them. Tread carefully, most of the times you don't want that.

------
ronaldx
Assuming you are in the UK, late payment of an invoice incurs statutory late
penalties. Further non-payment can be resolved by small claims court.

On rare occasions when I have been ignored like this, I have sent snail mail
saying I will start charging late penalties - as I am legally entitled to - if
I don't receive payment within 14 days.

I have never had to wait out those 14 days, so I can't offer anecdote beyond
that.

Details: [https://www.gov.uk/late-commercial-payments-interest-debt-
re...](https://www.gov.uk/late-commercial-payments-interest-debt-
recovery/charging-interest-commercial-debt)

------
joebeetee
In defence of pigclient.co.uk, I've been using them a long time and have
always been happy with their....pigs....

------
Jeremy1026
Couldn't this be twisted into blackmail in some way by PigClient?

~~~
_delirium
That was my worry with the "will use my considerable SEO skills" part. I would
leave that implicit. Just mention that you are angry about the situation and
have put up a page explaining your grievance to the public (which is legal),
and put the ball in their court to attempt to rectify the situation.

~~~
pixxel
That's a fair point. But I wouldn't recommend any of it in fairness. Sometimes
you just roll with the punches.

------
pc86
I cannot stress strongly enough that _nobody_ should _ever_ do the idiotic
things in the OA. Most of them are illegal and/or immoral. Some of which has
been said already in these comments.

> _The final invoice was sent one week ago and you have not received payment._

> _You attempt to Skype but the client is offline ... perhaps they are on
> holiday or a family emergency arose._

To me all this says is that this guy is working with mostly individuals. I
know we all like to make ridiculous payment terms ("pay me within 48 hours or
I'll apply 1.99% interest every 12 hours for 1 week then persue legal action")
but in the real world you cannot demand payment within 7 days. Any client of
size is doing to take _at least_ 21-30 days to pay. Most will pay within 30.
Some will not sign anything that requires payment in less than 90.

> _A month has passed. It is now clear that you are being purposefully
> ignored._

No, it's not.

> _Perhaps the client lives in another country so legal action is out._

In truthfulness, I tend to shy away from foreign clients for this very reason.
I have no recourse if things go seriously south.

> _Legal action ... is underway._

This is downright stupid. If I contract someone to do something and they tell
me they're persuing legal action against me, that is the last time I ever
speak to them without my attorney in the room, on the phone or cc'd. If your
goal is to get paid this is the stupidest thing you could possible do to get
that check.

Also, it's just not true. Buying a domain and putting up an HTML file does not
constitute legal action. Let's say you take this to trial. What happens next
is their attorney shows the jury or judge that you were threatening legal
action and saying you'd already taken it days or weeks before actually doing
it. You were lying while trying to get money out of his or her client. What
else have you lied about?

> _As a webmaster I will use my considerable SEO skills to ensure that
> pigclient-warning.co.uk is the first search result_

This is extortion. It's illegal and if I got this I would hire an attorney and
make sure this find its way to the inbox of whatever law enforcement official
it has to.

> _To end this today you could pay my final invoice and I will immediately
> remove the page. ... I have attached a revised final invoice to include the
> cost of buying [the domain] plus a [50 pound] admin fee. "

Also extortion. You do not have the right to just arbitrarily decide they now
have to pay you $50 because you had to write a snippy email detailing how
you've broken the law a handful of times.

> _On both occasions I have received payment within one hour.*

Which goes to show you what kind of clients you work with.

> _I have always resented having to stop to that level_

You should.

What blows my mind is that at the very end he admits there may well be legal
ramifications for doing this.

Non-paying clients should be built into your pricing. Credit card transaction
fees have a certain percentage of fraud built in. Everything does. If one
client paying 60 days late or not at all destroys your business, you need more
clients, you need to charge more or you need to get someone that knows what
they're doing to help you with the business side. Probably all three.

~~~
anatari
IANAL, but I doubt that threatening someone with actions that are legal is
against the law. I can threaten to eat a Twinkie unless you give me one
million dollars if I feel like it. Or a more relevant example is a patent
troll blackmailing for licensing fees.

~~~
pc86
Threatening legal action is obviously not against the law. I would think it's
not illegal to threaten legal action you have no intention of taking, either
(although it's bad form).

However, should it actually get to a courtroom, it would not be good to have
to address a judge and jury and explain that yes, you spent weeks lying to
this person, threatening them with material harm to their business, etc, but
that's the only thing you were dishonest about in the whole ordeal.

------
jonahx
Seems like a perfectly reasonable response tbh. The only thing that struck me
as bizarre was it taking a month before you realized they were avoiding you.
I'd say the conditional distribution of someone avoiding you looks like this:

1 unreturned email/phone call: 70%

2 unreturned emails/calls: 95%

3 unreturned emails/calls: 99.9%

And the first one honestly is probably even higher than 70%

------
larrys
A good practical idea.

I would check into whether the "if/then" creates a case of extortion. (I don't
know the answer but it pops into my mind).

That said, even if does (and this is really important although legal opinions
might vary) did legally create a possible problem you still have to weigh the
chance that the person on the other side is going to pursue that angle or just
pay up. [1] I make this point because there are plenty of things that you do
in business that aren't 100% defensible but in the end they work and you move
on (after taking your chances).

[1] Based upon my many years in business taking chances with things quit
frequently. After all people bungie jump, sky dive and do extreme sports
because of their judgement that the gain is work the risk.

------
neya
As a fellow designer, I've been scammed multiple times too. So, I totally feel
you.

Here's my documented version of to-do's to avoid such awkward situations.

1) Always let the client know through email that whatever NDA or any other
form you've signed is valid only after the project is complete(ie., the final
invoice is paid). But, however, promise them that (legally) you will not leak
anything about their project anywhere else until unless it goes too extreme,
as in your case (add this clause, it's important). I say email specifically
because it can be used as vital evidence if something goes wrong.

2) If it's just PSD's, watermark them in a way they will need to spend more
time and money removing watermarks and editing than paying you.

3) Copyright. In your email to your client, the first thing you let them know
is that the whole stuff belongs to you (owned by you, copyrighted) unless the
final invoice is paid. So make sure the NDA doesn't mention/over-ride this
before you sign it.

4) Many are against this tactic, but I will explain the reasons soon. Include
a flipswitch.

Here's how -

If you are doing HTML/CSS, this is how you do it (I've already suggested it
before):

Add redundant containers - I'm using the logo as an example, but really it
could be some important element that provides value to the client. As an
example, if you want to add styles for your logo, don't just write it as

    
    
        #logo{
        display:block;
        position:absolute;
        top:10px;
        background:url('some-image.jpg') no-repeat;
       }
    

But re-write it as:

    
    
       #aw469srfa #fewji903{
        display:block;
        position:absolute;
        top:10px;
        background:url('some-image.jpg') no-repeat;
       }
    

BUT, in your actual HTML file, what you do is DON'T include the logo container
with ID 'fewji903'. Instead, write a tiny Jquery script to load this container
dynamically. Something like:

    
    
        $(document).ready(function() {
        //do a check to see if current time is less than expiry date
        if( project_expired()){
        $('#aw469srfa').html('<div id="fewji903"></div>');
        }
        else{
        // don't load the container
        alert('fuck-off, expired');
        }
    
        function project_expired(){
        //do something to check the validity
        if (current_time==time_you_set_to_expire)
        return true
        else 
        return false    
        }
        });
    

What you're doing here is checking the time (you could maybe use even ajax to
send a request to your server to see if the project is valid, but it will
increase page loading time obviously) to see if it's less than some certain
time frame you've set. Say about a month. This means, if the client doesn't
pay you in a month, then the site would break automatically after a month.

Now:

Minify your CSS and make it unreadable. And finally, obfuscate your JS above:

This is how the above code, when obfuscated will look like this somewhat:

    
    
         eval(function(p,a,c,k,e,d){e=function(c){return c.toString(36)};if(!''.replace(/^/,String)){while(c--){d[c.toString(a)]=k[c]||c.toString(a)}k=[function(e){return d[e]}];e=function(){return'\\w+'};c=1};while(c--){if(k[c]){p=p.replace(new RegExp('\\b'+e(c)+'\\b','g'),k[c])}}return p}('$(a).b(2(){5(0()){$(\'#9\').8(\'<1 6="7"></1>\')}3{j(\'h-i, c\')}2 0(){5(f==d)4 e 3 4 g}});',20,20,'project_expired|div|function|else|return|if|id|fewji903|html|aw469srfa|document|ready|expired|time_you_set_to_expire|true|current_time|false|fuck|off|alert'.split('|'),0,{}))
    
    
    

I always use [http://www.jsobfuscate.com](http://www.jsobfuscate.com) for this
purpose.

At that point, your client could:

1) Reverse engineer the code to see how it works.

2) Try to re-design it from scratch

3) Cancel the project, or take too much time to complete it.

4) Pay you.

1-3 are extremely time-consuming and expensive for them. So, most likely, they
will opt for 4.

Now for the DON'T's.

1)DO NOT obfuscate your code in production. This is only done till you get
your final payment.

2) Remove all the shady tricks above in production (once you've received your
payment) because it's

a)unprofessional and

b)most likely would break something.

This is not perfect. But you do understand that any locksmith can break your
house door, right? So, this is for those non-tech clients who would rather pay
when you push them too far..

This has worked really well for me all these years.

~~~
btipling
You have:

function project_expired(){ //do something to check the validity if
(current_time==time_you_set_to_expire) return true else return false }

Maybe you just want:

return current_time==time_you_set_to_expire;

O_o

Also note this is really easy to circumvent.

~~~
th0114nd
Or current_time >= time_you_set_to_expire...

------
jlarocco
This is a pretty dumb idea.

The better thing to do is have a contract, and if the client doesn't pay, have
a lawyer send a threatening letter warning them about contract violations and
court action. That should work almost every time, and if it doesn't you'll
already have a lawyer familiar with the situation.

For bonus points, have the contract gone over by a lawyer before signing it in
the first place. There are law practices and legal services businesses that
specialize in it and it only costs a few hundred dollars. And it can be added
to the cost of the project.

~~~
yen223
This presumes 2 things:

1\. The money owed is significantly more than the incurred legal fees.

2\. You work in a place where courts are actually effective.

~~~
jlarocco
For number 1: A contract review can be done for around $200. Other than bottom
of the barrel, rentacoder projects, it won't add a significant cost to the
project. If a client doesn't pay, having a lawyer write a letter will take a
few hours and cost a few hundred dollars. It doesn't need to be a top of the
line lawyer - just being from a lawyer will scare most companies enough to pay
the bill. It can probably even be added to the contract that the cost of such
a letter is tacked onto the rest of the bill if it needs to be written. This
kind of thing is a regular cost of business, and the companies that are likely
to cry about the tiny extra costs are often the same companies who won't pay
on time. In other words, having the contract done correctly helps preemptively
solve the problem of clients not paying.

For number 2: This seems like a reasonable assumption to make for the majority
of people reading HN. It's ridiculous to promote a weird, probably illegal,
blackmail scheme because a dozen people on HN can't use their court systems.

------
DanBC
> Perhaps the client lives in another country so legal action is out. You’ve
> been proper fucked.

Most countries have low-cost fast-track law for this kind of situation. In the
UK it's "small claims". Seems like a start up could make some money offering
non-legal advice about how to use these simple cheap courts to get redress.

~~~
varunkho
What's equivalent of this in US that can be used from outside?

------
masnick
The sad reality is that as a contractor, you have to operate under the
assumption that you will sometimes have trouble getting paid.

If I was starting contract work for a new client, I would ask them to pay up
front by the day. It is trivially easy to set up a one-click "pay for 1 day of
work" button with Stripe (saving credit card info after the first payment) so
it should not be a huge burden for the client.* I would eat Stripe's fee in
exchange for peace of mind.

Note that this is good for the client too: hypothetically, if they don't like
my work, they can pull the plug without being on the hook for future work (if
I do my job right, this will never happen).

* Some corporate client's can't do this because of rules about what can go on a credit card. That's fine because those bigger businesses are generally used to paying invoices on time in my experience.

------
DanielN
If you ever think of doing this STOP, watch this video
[http://vimeo.com/22053820](http://vimeo.com/22053820) and then reconsider.

Better yet, watch that video now, hire a lawyer like every other freelancer on
the planet and avoid such a mess entirely!

------
pajju
One simple way to avoid such payment issues is - always host code in your
servers.

\- Make things clear in the start, the workflows and Billing process.

\- If you get small hints of late payments or slow payments, just stop the
work for some time.

\- Keep Milestones and proceed one step at a time. We follow checklists with
all our clients at ninjaas.com

\- Only after your final payments are cleared, consider moving code-base to
the production servers or give them the access keys.

\- Don't ever get nasty with any client.

If things got wrong, maybe it was your own mistake in the first place
somewhere? You missed gathering requirements or something better be done next
time to avoid such steps!

Finally Learn the process: We've learnt these things the hard way. There is no
general formula. :)

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awwx
Hmm, while someone may legally owe you for example the final $10K in payment
(or whatever the amount is), that wouldn't necessarily prevent a judge from
perhaps deciding that you are also liable to _them_ for the say $500K in
businesses loses that they claim they incurred because of your SEO
manipulation. I am not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice, but I would
encourage someone to talk to their lawyer and to _get_ legal advice before
taking action which could be construed as threatening to harm someone's
business...

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jpaulchan
There is another side to the coin. PigDesigner takes money upfront from
VictimCompany and backs out of it before completing half of the assigned work.
The way to avoid any misunderstanding is to define work items, delivery times
and other terms through a contract.

PS: PigDesigner is not a reference to the OP in any way. I do not know the OP.
Just saying that either side can bite.

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lmarinho
Something that has been working very well for us is asking for payment before
the work starts on a set of deliverables. Charging gets very simple, if he
pays, you start working, if he doesn't, you don't. Not every client may accept
these terms, if they give you trouble on this, it may be an early warning for
future payment problems.

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philip1209
Reading these comments, why not build in a kill switch on your server. Have
the client's javascript do a get request on clientname-status.yoursite.com,
and iff you create the cname and upload an index that has "false" in the body,
abandon loading the website.

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nmridul
I'm curious why it would be different from any review websites ?

Maybe he should reword his letter and don't use that domain name. And make it
so that he is just providing a review on his experiences of working with the
client. And also could put it in his personal website.

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andrewflnr
Maybe it's legally problematic, but I can't make myself see it as being
unethical. You've only threatened to tell the truth to a wider audience, and
all you want to go away is what they already promised you. How is this wrong?

~~~
pixxel
Well I guess it doesn't feel professional. Maybe unprofessional would have
been a better word.

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shyn3
I wish more developers/designers/creatives did something to recoup their
losses versus just moving on. It sucks when good developers get out of the
industry because people are paying late/not paying.

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MaysonL
A raally must watch video on the do's and don'ts of client payment:
[http://vimeo.com/22053820](http://vimeo.com/22053820)

2011/03 Mike Monteiro | F*ck You. Pay Me.

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zaidf
You had more luck than me when I launched
[http://cliffkaplanfraud.com/](http://cliffkaplanfraud.com/)

I still remain unpaid.

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hawleyal
Why do they have it in their hands if you don't have the money in yours?

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ing33k
always better to get a PO from the client before doing any substantial work
for them.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchase_order](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchase_order)

