
DJI Mavic Mini - paulrosenzweig
https://www.dji.com/mavic-mini
======
mithr
Looks pretty cool!

Had to laugh at this bit though:

> “My girlfriend and I can simply enjoy our time together making memories and
> leave the rest to Mavic Mini.”

... followed by a lengthy video of them either centering their entire
attention on the drone taking the video, or standing to "enjoy nature" while
discretely flying the drone at the same time, so that it can take a video of
them serenely enjoying their perfect moment in nature.

~~~
alistairSH
I see the same thing with selfies on vacations - at Machu Picchu, the Scottish
Highlands, Iceland, Florence - people spending the entirety of their visit to
some tourist spot trying to get the perfect selfie, to the exclusion of nearly
everything else.

Yes, I also carry a camera and take a lot of photos, but I don't run off the
tour bus or out of the car, in an effort to get a shot before anybody else
gets there (various waterfalls in Iceland). Nor do I get verbally abusive when
people wander into a shot, which I encountered repeatedly at Machu Picchu.

~~~
rawoke083600
Yea I also wonder what do ppl do with "these 10000s of photos" Can't remember
last time I print a photo, or look at it after I posted it on IG or FB(ppl
still do that ?).

Lol the one to respond to my comment might be the 1/100 ppl that actually
print their photos and hang it in their house.

~~~
alistairSH
I don't take selfies, and rarely family snapshots either.

I do consider myself a photography hobbyist. I try to find neat shots - some
are fairly standard shots that pros have all done better (look, another shot
of Machu Picchu from the Sun Gate!). Others are simple street scenes, or
flowers and landscapes, or whatever other random stuff I happen upon on
vacation. Sometimes I try portraits as we're moving through vacation (though
that's biggest weakness - most are crap). I like to think looking for unique
shots forces me to experience my surroundings, but I won't claim that's true
for all people.

I've printed a few shots, like to share my better shots with friends & family,
and will go back and look at albums occasionally. And also try to ID what I
did poorly and work to correct it on upcoming trips. Some of my favorites end
up as desktop backgrounds, screen saver, etc. I should really consider getting
a very high quality LCD display to rotate through some - maybe a project of
the future.

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blhack
Wow, very cool! As others have pointed out, being under the weight limit set
by the FAA is basically THE selling point.

Ethical question: are DJI the good guys here working within the rules set out
of the FAA, or are they running afoul of the spirit but staying within the
letter?

~~~
post_break
This is how all laws work though. Rifle minimum barrel is 16" so they make 16"
barrels. Wifi can only put out X watts max, they put out the maximum by law.
There are no ethics in following a laws minimum or maximum.

~~~
cookiecaper
It's a great reason to exercise caution when setting up rules and definitions.
Whatever distinction gets established, however arbitrary, casts a tint on
everything else on either side of it, for better or worse.

This is true even in things as routine daily chit-chat and conversation. Think
about how often tacitly express your opinion through the way you frame a
discussion and how often those environmental cues bias other parties to
respond in particular ways. Then, consider how often marketers, salespeople,
and other manipulators intentionally frame interactions to provoke a specific
biased response.

The light touch and the small nudge are grossly undervalued.

~~~
roywiggins
I'll just note that laws and regulations can get struck down for vagueness. If
there's no hard rule about what kind of drones are regulated how, then it
becomes more burdensome- or even impossible- to know whether you're complying
with the law.

~~~
Scoundreller
Or the law is perfectly clear, but the police and prosecutors pick and choose
which cases they put forward.

Or the intensity of enforcement varies in the first place.

And chances are you’re doing something else illegal anyway.

Or can be followed until you do.

And if you don’t, there’s always the routine traffic stop.

~~~
roywiggins
> the police and prosecutors pick and choose which cases they put forward

 _someone_ has to decide which cases to bring, unless you fund the police and
prosecutors so they can bring _every plausible case_ , which sounds like a
strictly worse universe to live in. Is this discretion abused? Yes, all the
time. But bringing every case seems more like a police state than a free
society.

------
bsamuels
I want to know how big the motors are going to be compared to the Mavic Pro.
I've flown 5" race quads that were <250g and working against the wind can be a
constant battle if you have gusts >10mph.

Traditionally DJI drones have had very underpowered motors so they can get
those high flight time numbers; seeing the 30 minute flight time quote here
doesn't give me much confidence that it will fly well with anything other than
perfect wind conditions.

I can't wait to tear one apart and see what kinds of compromises/trade offs
they've made compared to their larger drones.

~~~
SpikeDad
It's not a race drone. That's a completely different audience. What do you
mean underpowered? Compared to what?

~~~
bsamuels
Let's say you're flying a race drone in windy conditions. you're aiming for a
gate that you're going to fly straight through when a large gust of wind hits.
You now have to compensate for that wind to correct your trajectory, and that
can take a LOT of thrust depending on how large the gust was and how fast you
need to correct the trajectory.

It's possible for the maneuver to require so much sideways thrust that you
will bleed some altitude and start to fall to the ground (granted on a racing
drone this is probably measured in centimeters for most maneuvers, but you get
the idea)

Racing drones usually have a thrust:weight ratio of 8:1 or so, but the large
Mavik Pro has a thrust:weight of 2.5:1, and their smaller Spark a ratio of
~2:1. You need a minimum TWR of about 2:1 to be flyable.

If the Mavic Mini has a similar TWR as the spark, then it's very unlikely
you'll be able to fly it in any sort of windy conditions.

~~~
laurentb
ok and what does all of this looks like when you're not comparing it against a
race drone? Parent comment makes a good point I think, in that the Mavic line
has never been geared towards "race drones" so comparing/judging those models
based on a certain category that they qualify themselves out of is kind of
moot.

I'm in the market for a drone at the moment (eyeing the mavic air over the
mini to be honest) for holiday type shots, all this racing stuff is pointless
as far as I'm concerned. I can't figure out based on your comment whether the
wind will screw a wide shot or not, it might not make it through a circle, but
i'll never get this drone through this sort of activity anyway.....

~~~
bsamuels
If I have a drone with 8:1 TWR and I have to bump my throttle by 20% to
compensate for wind, a drone that has a TWR of 2:1 is gonna lose altitude and
fail to maintain position.

I realize now that the way I described it in my parent post doesn't make very
much sense

------
fh973
Great, it's a toy! Seriously, with 249g, drone laws do not apply (start with
250g) and you can do whatever you want with it in public.

~~~
dilly_li
Can one fly it in National Parks?

~~~
throwaway1777
No. That restriction is not based on weight or size.

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maxcan
Oh man, been waiting for this. Unfortunately, no active track :(

Still conflicted on spending $1000 on the new skydio for what would mostly be
a toy for me.

~~~
atourgates
I currently have a Mavic Pro, and I don't plan to replace it until a Skydio,
or something with equivalent AI and automation is available.

My dream for my Mavic was capturing new angles of family activities. However,
the truth is that the effort required to capture those activities with a Mavic
ruins the enjoyment of many of them.

Say I wanted to get video of my kids biking. I've got to make sure the drone
is charged, have my kids wait around on the trail while I launch it, and then
compose the shot and stand there looking at my phone, worrying about running
into stuff while they bike.

The Skydio's pathfinding and sensors take a good chunk of that hassle away. I
could theoretically hand the beacon to one of them, and say, "Ok, great, go
ride." And for 20-minutes, the drone would do all the work of getting video,
while I rode with my kids.

Assuming real-world reviews of the Skydio 2 come back positive, I think
that'll be my Mavic's replacement.

~~~
jcims
There are some great vids of the Skydio 2 in action on YouTube. One guy on a
pit bike getting scared shitless about the abandoned area he drives around is
pretty good.

Theres a certain predatory element to the flying the Skydio does while
operating in trees that is awesome and creepy at the same time.

Edit: video in question -
[https://youtu.be/2UbRP5YsjuY](https://youtu.be/2UbRP5YsjuY)

Flying starts around 4:30. Definitely watch it negotiate through the trees a
bit then fast forward to the riding at the end if you get bored.

------
folli
I feel like an old man, when I say this (and maybe I am), but I'm starting to
feel increasingly annoyed by drones in public. You hear the whirring of drones
on a nice day by the lake, and sometimes even on some more popular mountain
peaks here in Switzerland. For me it's almost as annoying as a mosquito in
your bedroom.

~~~
barbecue_sauce
I live in the northeastern United States. I have literally never seen a drone
(consumer or otherwise) anywhere other than a Best Buy (or similar electronics
retailer) still in its packaging.

~~~
singingboyo
Yeah. I'm in Canada, I have a couple drones. I've seen someone else flying
one... once. While I was out finding somewhere to fly.

I think what we're running into though is the sheer size of North America.
Even within the city here, there are a fair number un(der)developed areas with
no/few people around. Out of the city, there rest stops or sometimes even just
viewpoints. For all of these, with a bit of walking I can avoid annoying
anyone.

Somewhere like Switzerland, that might not be possible.

------
billions
I will not purchase another drone until I can pull it out of my back pocket
and throw it in the air, have it automatically take some fantastic shots of my
friends and land back in my hand.

------
bcheung
I have the Mavic Pro and have issues with the wind carrying it away and not
being able to navigate where I want.

Is a smaller drone going to even more issue with wind or have they improved
this?

~~~
headcanon
How windy is it where you live? I've flown the Mavic Pro over the Pacific and
Lake Michigan through what I would describe as a "healthy breeze". I think its
max wind speed is approx 22mph, but can't find a reference for it.

I'd say rule of thumb is if you wouldn't want to eat a nice brunch in it, you
don't want to fly in it.

edit: Pretty sure it uses GPS, compass, and gyro to stabilize itself relative
to the wind.If gentle winds are causing it to drift too much, you might be
having trouble with one of those. You might want to calibrate compass and make
sure you're getting good GPS reception. I've found stabilization is not good
in WiFi control mode either.

~~~
bcheung
It was in the desert outside of Las Vegas. It was a pretty strong wind.

~~~
headcanon
You're probably right. Too bad too, probably some good footage to be had out
there!

------
mc32
Is this replacing the Spark?

They still list the Spark on the site but no stock, unless it will have an
update shipping soon. Still, this looks good.

~~~
yardie
Same price as the Spark when it was released. Smaller, lighter, and longer
flight time than the Spark. There really is no reason to purchase the Spark
unless you need to replace another Spark.

I have a Spark and I'm really looking forward to this and being out from under
the thumb of the FAA (<250g). DJI has knocked it out of the park this time.

~~~
mc32
You bring up a good point about weight. I guess I was thinking an upgraded
Spark would look even nicer, but the weight threshold is a good point. I’ll
probably order one of these.

~~~
nobrains
The DJI Spark has more flying sensors enabling it to be flown much more
easily.

~~~
mc32
Yeah you’re right. I just wonder if they’re retiring it or if they’ll push out
a new model for the holiday season —it’s getting close to the time they either
release or miss out on the sales.

------
bittercynic
Anyone know how to use the video downlink from DJI drones without the rest of
the system?

If there is a forum out there for hacking DJI's stuff, I haven't found it yet.

~~~
Rebelgecko
On older DJI Phantom drones you could ssh into the drone and pump the video
into ffmpeg or wherever. I think they became more proprietary and locked down
so I don't know how easy this is to do nowadays.

------
andreapmd
DJI nailed the ideal form factor for consumer drones (and maybe for
quadcopters in general) when they came up with the original Mavic Pro. Since
then they've been experimenting with incrementally smaller form factors to
find a price and size where the truly average Joe will decide to get a drone
to bring on his holidays, but I'm not sure that decreasing size will unlock a
large number of new customers.

On my personal wishlist for future drones are more sophisticated and precise
physical controllers with better pressure gradients, and especially the
ability to program flight routes to allow mixed human/automated controls –
e.g. "Respond to flight controls normally, but when I press this button 1)
increase altitude to 90m over the course of 15 seconds 2) rotate camera
downwards by 30 degrees over 15 seconds 3) begin rotating aircraft left by 1
degree per second"

------
spike021
That's actually a surprisingly great price.

Only thing I'd be worried about a bit is if they have the potential to go the
same way as GoPro. DJI reminds me a lot of how GoPro was a few years ago.

~~~
frabbit
Do you mind explaining that further? I don't know what happened with GoPro.

~~~
spike021
I'm not an expert on the market or anything, so just my two cents.

But for a while, GoPro had fairly explosive growth, in my perspective anyway.
But after some time they stopped really innovating and some other brands with
cheaper products but similar quality began getting some traction. So GoPro
kind of dropped the ball. I think they've been getting better again the past
year though.

But again, not a market expert; this is just what I can remember seeing and
reading about.

~~~
powerapple
I would see DJI and GoPro two completely different kind of company. DJI
founders are technologists, they are technology first company. I don't see how
they can stop innovating.

------
billziss
This looks nice and I certainly appreciate the battery life.

To the people that are excited because this is outside some regulatory limits.
A few years ago there were no or few drone regulations and people abused this;
the result was strict national and city regulations to the point that flying a
drone is almost impossible (legally) in some cities in the US.

If people abuse the regulatory limits expect more strict regulations. I fly
drones and I support such regulations.

BTW, a 249g drone would likely take down a small airplane.

~~~
Accujack
A half ounce hex nut would take down a small airplane in the wrong place.

~~~
iamaelephant
A half ounce hex nut doesn't fly under its own power.

~~~
Accujack
It will if you attach an engine and fuel tank to it.

Or alternatively, a small bird in the wrong place can take down a plane. Or
for that matter, a clog in the pitot tube from ice.

------
bitL
Mavic and its variations are fine, but when will we finally get Phantom 5?
Mavic is still far from functionality offered by Phantom 5, whether it comes
to stability, ease of use and most importantly video quality. Going to new
Mavic feels like downgrade with the only advantage being portability, which is
a moot point as one has to carry multiple batteries in a separate bag anyway.
DJI, come on, give us something!

~~~
rimliu
Mavic is very far ahead in terms of functionality compared to Phantom 5, given
that Phantom 5 does not exist. If you compare Mavic 2 Pro to Phantom 4 Pro,
then the only arguable advantage the latter has is the mechanical shutter. No
problems with stability, and despite being lighter the smaller aerodynamic
cross-section actually helps Mavic to fight the wind. Not sure what advantages
P4 has against Mavic wrt ease of use. I sold my P4P and got Mavic 2 Pro and
consider that a big upgrade.

~~~
samplatt
>If you compare Mavic 2 Pro to Phantom 4 Pro, then the only arguable advantage
the latter has is the mechanical shutter.

 _Quite_ false. Although the resolution isn't different, the camera sensor in
the phantom is twice the size and has better optics on it. In terms of
photography, it's a no-brainer.

We still use a Mavic however due to the ability to upload a CSV of coordinates
and camera angles, which is a much better fit for the photogrammetry we use it
for.

------
todipa
2019 - Mavic Mini --> 2020 - Mavic Micro --> 2021 - Mavic Nano --> ... ... ...
--> 2049 - Mavic Atom --> 2100: Mavic Dark Matter

------
ulfw
the weight reduction is great. More battery runtime is great.

The rest though? DJI had years to improve the Spark and instead they made it
worse for photographers. No more panorama? Really?

That was the only way to get a bit more resolution of of that tiny 12MP
sensor. Frankly without it there is no point for me to own it.

No DNG support. Of course. Yea so difficult to do. No 24fps for video folks.
Sure...

------
megaremote
This is pretty good, 30 min flight time and 4km range.

> 4 km for FCC compliant Model (MT1SS5) and 2 km for CE compliant Model
> (MT1SD25).

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choonway
DJI and iRobot may be the only companies to date who managed to produce
pro/consumer robotic products sustainably.

------
skykooler
Is there a standalone controller for these, or can they only be controlled
through an iphone / android?

~~~
rimliu
The controller comes in a box. Not sure if you can fly the drone without the
phone connected similar to the Mavic, my guess would be yes.

------
throwawaycanada
Good bye drone laws!! 250g is the limit before you need a license in Canada!

------
MattieTK
Surely this is too lightweight to perform in windy conditions?

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kamfc
AV industry will never be the same.

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forgone
what's the legality of it in the UK?

~~~
dogma1138
Considering the registration requirement in the UK is to register all drones
above 250g in weight this one seems to have been designed as a loophole.

As it weight 249g you don't have to register with the CAA and as long as you
keep it under 400ft altitude and within 150ft from other people and private
property you can fly it anywhere where there isn't a local limitation and it's
not restricted airspace.

In places where there are limitations e.g. London and other big cities you can
fly it on private property.

Please note that in the UK the entity that manages a park or other public
spaces can impose its own restrictions e.g. you can't fly drones in Alexandra
Palace despite Barnet Council not having a wide ban on drones.

For the most part don't be an idiot the police doesn't enforce these rules for
the most part outside westminster where the cops do chase down drone flyers
especially around the tourist spots since you aren't allowed to fly anything
within 150m of a congested area which is pretty much any spot in central
london.

~~~
ctdonath
Complying with a deliberately & precisely worded law is not exploiting a
loophole, it's complying with the law.

~~~
nwallin
"But your honor. The speed limit is 65 and I was going 64."

"You were exploiting a loophole. You may have been adhering to the letter of
the law, but you were in gross violation of its spirit. We don't play games in
this courtroom. Your fine is $250 and you owe $437 in court fees."

------
pedalpete
Does anybody else fear the annoying future where every tourist attraction,
trail, ski run, etc are filled with the buzz of everyone with their personal
drones?

~~~
iscrewyou
Good thing laws aren’t set in stone and can be amended.

They may become a hassle here and there but it won’t last.

~~~
rimliu
If the area is filled with tourists, for me drones would not make it much
worse.

------
kawsper
I'm on a german IP but don't speak a word of german, however the whole page is
in german.

My browser sends the correct headers, accept-language: en-
US,en;q=0.9,da;q=0.8.

~~~
bschwindHN
I'm in Japan and just get a 404. Just shitty web development, nothing
surprising.

------
landcoctos
Argh! Just when I thought the drone fad had passed...

------
sneak
As someone who wants hardware that does what I instruct it to after I have
purchased it, regardless of the manufacturer's wishes, I don't think I can
support buying DJI's otherwise-excellent products any longer. The firmware
updates and activation locks and flight restrictions imposed by the DJI Go app
are too onerous.

If I buy a tool, and the tool now belongs to me, the manufacturer attempting
to restrict my use of that tool is morally unjustifiable.

(Yes, I have an iPhone, and yes, I'm pissed off about that, too.)

~~~
vannevar
I upvoted you, not because I agree, but because you raised a reasonable point
that clearly generated some intelligent debate. I think the problem is that
modern technology has resulted in cheaply available "tools" (to use your term)
that have the capacity to cause great and irreparable harm to large numbers of
other people (see the comments regarding drones and airplanes, for instance),
and consequently must be proactively restricted, not merely regulated after
the fact with criminal or civil penalties. Such is the nature of the modern
world that produced technologies like the drone. We can no longer afford to
leave the use of these technologies up to the good judgment of individuals,
because there will always be a minority who can't or won't exercise it.

The iPhone is another question entirely, I agree with you there.

~~~
leetcrew
I strongly disagree.

as a matter of principle, I don't accept that a device I _own_ should do
anything more or less that what I tell it to do.

I don't expect HN to agree with me on this principle, so I will also present a
practical argument. these kinds of controls that protect users from wrongdoing
tend to be implemented incredibly crudely. my house is close enough to a major
airport that it triggers DJI's flight restriction. if the drone happens to get
a GPS fix _inside my house_ it will deactivate itself and land. there's no way
a small drone can be a threat to the public when it's hovering inside my
living room, and I'm pretty sure the legal restrictions don't apply inside of
a structure anyway.

~~~
205guy
This is a fascinating discussion that I think gets to the heart of the matter,
but is still missing the key point: can you ever own something with software?

I up voted the sibling comment (diminoten) even though it was a bit
aggressive. Leetcrew say s/he doesn't trust the controls programmed "crudely"
by others. But the sibling logically points out that leetcrew's actions could
be just as crude from the others' point of view.

I think leetcrew's principles are misdirected here. With software, you can't
really own the device. Look at the librem5 debacle: you can't control the
radios because the FCC doesn't license unlocked radios. If you had a ham
license you could buy and operate any radio the way you want (within the
rules). What's really missing is disclosure. DJI should be clearly documenting
their software controls and all geographic restrictions so you know exactly
what capabilities you are paying for.

~~~
leetcrew
I'm glad you brought up ham radio licenses. drones can certainly be dangerous
if they are misused. although it would be inconvenient for me, I would not
oppose stricter licensing requirements for drones and other potentially
dangerous products. it could even be required to buy one in the first place.
requiring a license says something like "we need to know that you understand
the rules and are capable of following them". software controls imply "we
don't trust you to follow the rules, even if you understand them". I realize
this is a matter of opinion, but I think the second message is just
inappropriate for a citizen in a free society.

~~~
205guy
But the free market is working: there are permitless drones available (with
idiot-proofing software), or you can buy or build a "DRM-free" drone, and now
the gov't essentially says you need a permit/license to fly it. I've seen
youtube channels of the commercial drone pilots (ads/TV/cinema) who had to
spend $10K+ to get a pilot's license.

There is still a middle ground of "unlocked" drones that you only need to
register with FAA to use, but you still need to follow the rules yourself. But
it is in the drone manufacturers interest to self-regulate to avoid being
banned altogether. If too many yahoos and others (see Gatwick incidents) cause
problems, authorities can easily kill their profitable industry. So I think
these "personal-responsibility" drones will quickly be phased out by the
industry.

