

Why you should never use AirBnb and why hotels still rule - dejan
http://shorttext.com/f9NMo
New Link: http:&#x2F;&#x2F;pastebin.com&#x2F;QqMbAgsF
======
mkmk
The author is upset because he was accused, and charged, for breaking a bed
that he says he didn't break. It also sounds like the customer service wasn't
great on AirBnB's part.

This is actually an interesting point, but unfortunately the message is
weakened by references to the murder rate in Chicago and insinuations of
covered-up rapes and murders in AirBnB apartments.

~~~
owenmarshall
Yeah, the point is almost completely lost in the histrionics, but if he's
correct that AirBnb places a higher value on protecting renters than on guests
the system is open for abuse. That's not to say that is what happened in this
case; one side of the story, and all.

But just think - AirBnb could've avoided this discussion entirely for the cost
of a crappy IKEA bed. Eat the $350, silently flag both parties - the property
owner to see if they are trying a scam, and the author to see if he has any
damage complaints in the future - and _move on_. Then we wouldn't even have to
wonder who was in the right and who was in the wrong!

~~~
toomuchtodo
>But just think - AirBnb could've avoided this discussion entirely for the
cost of a crappy IKEA bed. Eat the $350, silently flag both parties - the
property owner to see if they are trying a scam, and the author to see if he
has any damage complaints in the future - and move on. Then we wouldn't even
have to wonder who was in the right and who was in the wrong!

Yes. Exactly this. This is how you do business.

------
hawkharris
I called my AirBnB host for instructions on how to get into her Boston
apartment because she had forgotten to leave me a key.

A few minutes later I was creeping through a pitch-black, cold basement with
half-inch-deep murky water flooding the concrete floor, using my iPhone as a
flashlight.

The moral of this story is: If you use AirBnB often enough, you may become the
protagonist in an M. Night Shyamalan movie.

~~~
uladzislau
Man, you should write fiction. Your description is so vivid and concise at the
same time.

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w1ntermute
I've only used AirBnb once, and my experience was far from optimal. The
service was not great (to be expected when the owner has no experience in the
hospitality industry) and it was rather expensive, but cheaper than a hotel
for a long-term stay, particularly because access to a full kitchen lets you
avoid eating out for every meal.

I used AirBnb because it provided housing for a couple of months, which is too
long to stay in a hotel and stay sane for me. But I would _never_ use Airbnb
for a trip a week or less in length.

~~~
pavel_lishin
> _The service was not great_

I never expect service when I'm using AirBnB. I expect a room, or an
apartment, that I can stay in, while the host and I both stay out of each
other's hair.

If I'm staying for a long term (>1 week), I suppose I'd take it for granted
that I'd at least have access to the laundry facilities, if not be able to
just dump my bedsheets in a laundry basket and be able to pull clean ones out
of the closet.

~~~
w1ntermute
> I expect a room, or an apartment, that I can stay in

It was basic stuff like this that I had problems with. For example, the host
was not there when I arrived the first evening, and neither was the person
that the host had said would be present - something I find unacceptable. And
then the host got confused and thought I was leaving a day before I was, which
I had to then sort out over the phone. These are the sorts of things that I
shouldn't have to think about.

~~~
maratd
I've been to hotels that screwed up my reservation as well. Is that indicative
of all hotels? No.

Why judge all of airbnb from just one experience?

~~~
potatolicious
> _" I've been to hotels that screwed up my reservation as well. Is that
> indicative of all hotels? No."_

No, especially because nearly all hotels keep spare rooms for this eventuality
- screwups are explicitly planned for. This isn't true for AirBnbs, where if
something screws up you're literally out on the street.

That's really what we're discovering now. The expense of hotels is largely due
to regulatory capture, but it is also because that one extra 9 in reliability
costs money. It turns out that having a 90% probability of your lodging go off
without a hitch is a _lot_ cheaper than a 99% probability.

My own experience with AirBnb is that when things go great, they're great.
When they run into edge cases or problems though it tends to quickly unravel.
Hotels explicitly plan for this.

~~~
maratd
> This isn't true for AirBnbs, where if something screws up you're literally
> out on the street.

This is nonsense. If, for whatever reason, the apartment that I'm renting out
on airbnb is not available, I would not put a person on the street. I would
invite them into my own place. And if even that is unavailable, then I would
pay for a hotel room.

Good service is not hard.

------
Harj
I sublet my apartment four months ago and have been Airbnb'ing around the
world since. I've stayed in 17 different places across seven countries and not
had a single bad experience.

Things aren't always perfect, just as they're not always with a hotel, but the
responsibility is on you to tell the host. I've not yet met a host who wasn't
responsive when I asked for something. Seems odd to me that you wouldn't
mention your sleep was so uncomfortable to the host before checking out.

I'm sure there are bad hosts out there but I feel I've stayed at enough Airbnb
places now to be confident in saying they're in the minority.

~~~
uladzislau
There's something wrong with how Airbnb ratings work. You can rent based on
dozen of 5 star well written reviews, nice description and photos and find
yourself in a shithole in the end.

------
karlkatzke
Wow. I don't usually feel the need to defend a service that has been
unfriendly to people that I know in the past, but this article makes it's
points poorly.

I've used AirBnB, typically when traveling in Austin or the west coast, a
couple of times now. I've never paid more than half the cost of a (cheap)
hotel room. Many times, the host has been gracious with their time and
kitchen, they have had other amenities like being close to public transit and
in a quiet part of town, pets (I love dogs, and my day feels incomplete unless
I've gotten to quiet down for sleep with a dog warming my feet), free
internet, and they've made it easy to stay as close to my normal routine and
life when it would otherwise be completely derailed. I don't have enough time
or energy to battle the illness and malaise that level of disruption brings.

Obviously, buyer beware. Just like I check hotel reviews to make sure there
are no reports of bedbugs, I verify the type of area that the hotel is in and
what kind of crime I can expect to know what personal precautions to take, and
I try to book by calling the hotel to get a handle on customer service, I do
the same with places I would stay listed with AirBnB.

When I travel for business, I generally have to stay in hotels. The difference
is night and day. I'm locked into whatever food is available in the hotel or
nearby, especially if I don't have a rental car. This makes it hard to stay on
a diet. It's tough to get exercise sometimes. Counting food, it costs three
times as much to stay in a hotel. If money is not an object, that's totally
your call, but I could've bought two Ikea beds for the difference between
AirBnB and a hotel the last time I traveled on my own time and bill to
Portland, Oregon.

~~~
dejan
Your points about food and exercise apply to both AirBnb and hotels?

Thus, one goes to hotel and most often to AirBnb just to sleep over, not to
"live" there.

~~~
karlkatzke
Good point. Sometimes, yes. I think the differences I was identifying are that
the AirBnB places I have stayed had kitchens or kitchenettes, laundry, and
other things available more often, to the point that it was easy to select for
these things and didn't add to the cost. It's also been easier to find AirBnBs
in neighborhoods that were walkable (because people _live_ there!) as opposed
to many hotels that didn't have access to parks or roads that weren't major
arteries.

------
gamegoblin

      >Why you should never use AirBnb and why hotels still rule 
    

I feel like this title is a bit linkbait-y...

Sure there are plenty of reasons not to use AirBnb. There are also plenty of
reasons to use it. If you are going on a special/important trip in which the
variability of AirBnb isn't appealing, don't use it. But NEVER use it? Sounds
a bit extreme.

~~~
Anonymous9823
I've used AirBnb around the world (entire apartment, not shared), so let's
look at the advantages you mentioned...

1\. You typically get more space than a hotel, and a kitchen. Currently I'm
living in an entire 2 story house in a city center that I rented off AirBnb.
It was a third of the cost of a cheap hotel room for a short term stay.
Remember, you can negotiate prices on AirBnb, I've never paid full price, and
typically get 20 - 70% off depending on the length of stay.

2\. Personal touch. A lot of the places I've rented were in a family owned
home, with separate apartments. On a number of occasions the host has taken
time to pick me up and drop me off at the train station, for free. They've
also taken time to go out for drinks, or just to walk around their city for an
hour or two. When you're traveling to a new city, having a local family that's
lived in that location for the past 20 years show you around, is a unique
experience, and one you don't get with hotels. I've also had hosts leave me
gifts, souvenirs, free wine in the fridge, plates of food on the counter, etc.

3\. You feel like a local. Hotel rooms are extremely generic, and you feel
disconnected from the city. Staying in an apartment or home, you get a better
experience for the culture.

4\. Free internet, not nearly as common in hotels.

Anyway, most of his concerns can be avoided by reading the reviews for the
host. Also, send the host a few messages back and forth to see how reliable
they are, and how quickly they respond. I've spent half the year living in all
sorts of AirBnb apartments, and don't plan to consider hotels again anytime
soon.

~~~
dejan
I would generally agree with you, but your thinking is along the lines of
"cheaper", in every point.

Cheaper sometimes gets more expensive and then you change the opinion. The
author mentions he was a heavy AirBnb user, just as you are. It's interesting
to read about the causes that make one's perspective change.

~~~
Anonymous9823
I mentioned prices because that's just icing on the cake. Leave them out if
you want.

1\. I get more space, currently 2 bedrooms, a living room, and full kitchen,
compared to a hotel that would offer a single room with just a bed.

2\. Better experience in regards to culture. I feel like I'm in a home, that's
decorated with local tastes, and not the same abstract painting behind the
bed, and long counter with flat screen TV in nearly every single hotel room.

3\. Get to meet people. Half of my stays, I end up going out for coffee or
drinks with the host.

Price isn't my main concern, and if prices were equal, I'd still go for
AirBnb. The reasons above are why that's my opinion.

Now, advantages of a hotel, because let's be honest, there are going to be
some.

1\. More reliable. I haven't had an issue in any of my stays, but you're more
likely to be waiting to meet a host, then waiting at the check-in of a hotel.
I've read AirBnb reviews where the person arrived, and host relocated them to
a different apartment because the one they selected wasn't ready. You don't
have to worry about hotels randomly changing addresses last minute.

2\. Hotel rooms are basically sterile, and you know they're going to be
extremely clean, sheets will obviously be fresh, etc. AirBnb, you're relying
on the host. Homes and apartments typically have little quirks. Maybe a door
doesn't close all the way, maybe a light is burnt out over the stove, etc. At
one place, I found a container of half eaten sour cream sitting in the
bathroom when I arrived. Obviously whoever cleaned the apartment just
overlooked it somehow, so I tossed it in the trash and went on with my life. I
know some people would freak out over these little details, and for them, a
hotel room is preferred. I accept them, because I imagine myself as a guest in
someone's home.

------
Tycho
I've been on two family holidays to Paris which my parents organised.
Unbeknownst to me, they used AirBnB to book them. Anyway basically we got to
stay in really nice family sized apartments which meant we could spend time
together in the evenings in the lounge, had the option of cooking our own
meals, no disturbance from the maids or guests arriving middle of the night,
relax in the flat when it was raining... in short I'd never want to spend
money on hotel rooms if I could have that sort of experience. Obviously
there's different use purposes though and it must depend a lot on the letter
(but i take it there's some sort of feedback system?).

~~~
dejan
if you had one bad experience, that left you bitter, would you use it again?

~~~
Tycho
I think it's analagous to eBay, although admittedly typically involves much
more money. The concept of renting holiday appartments/rooms has been around
for much longer than BnB though, so I don't see it as fragile.

------
dshep
I think Airbnb is a good service. However it is not a hotel service, and I
think they try to market it a little too similarly to one. For instance,
making a booking is usually a much slower back and forth process between you
and the host. It can be frustrating if you are expecting it to be immediate
like it is with a hotel. Generally for a short stay I find its easier just to
go with a hotel. It is nicer for finding longer term rentals, when the extra
effort is justified by the cost savings and better accommodations.

------
jseliger
The fundamental question is whether you wish to risk lower service (in some
capacity, like the deal with the beds) for lower prices.

That's a trade-off, and if you're unwilling to risk lower service for lower
prices you should not in fact use AirBnb. If you are willing to risk that
trade-off, you should.

------
dejan
new link: [http://pastebin.com/QqMbAgsF](http://pastebin.com/QqMbAgsF)

------
dominotw
According to their CEO, "We're not classified as the brokers, we're just the
service." [1]

I am not sure why they are expected to do dispute arbitration if they are
'just the service'. You don't expect craigslist to refund your money for a
transaction that was enabled by craigslist.

1\. [http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/25/technology/matching-
travel...](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/25/technology/matching-travelers-
with-rooms-via-the-web.html?pagewanted=all)

~~~
jbail
Because AirBnB charges sizable booking fees, people have an expectation that
they will assist at some level if/when things go wrong. Furthermore, AirBnB
themselves asserted that they have some responsibility. Remember when that
apartment in SF got ransacked? Now they offer their $1 million insurance.
Clearly, they are more than "just the service."

~~~
dominotw
So I guess 'just a service' ruse is just avoid enforcing licensing/permits on
their hosts.

Shady much?

------
calbear81
If he felt that he was charged incorrectly by AirBnB, he should dispute the
charge with his credit card company and have them take care of it with AirBnB.
AirBnB would then have to make a case that indeed the guest broke the bed and
was liable for the damages and that burden might be high enough that they just
rather eat the cost. Of course, I'm not sure who is really at fault here since
so far it's a he said/she said affair.

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level09
Thanks you for this post, I stopped using Airbnb as well since they closed my
account without providing any justification.

[http://nidalalhariri.com/post/55999109847/airbnb-closed-
my-a...](http://nidalalhariri.com/post/55999109847/airbnb-closed-my-account-
for-no-reason)

no one from their management/support team even cared to respond to my blog
post/tweets.

~~~
ceejayoz
Am I missing something? Why is the post titled "AirBnB racism"?

~~~
dejan
I think you can induce it from the name. Sorry to hear, had it happen to me on
a few occasions too, but I just decided it's not worth the fight.

~~~
maxcan
So anytime there is unexplained bad service to someone with a minority
sounding name it is safe to assume that its racism at play?

There is nowhere near enough information to deduce the real cause of the
account cancellation and attributing it to racism while providing no
justification is below the standard of quality that we expect on HN.`

~~~
dejan
hmm. i wouldn't jump to conclusions. I am a Serbian national. On multiple
occasions I have been called Yugo, a "gypsy", Slav because of my name, and
also have given attitude due to my accent. Don't talk about other people
unless you know how it feels.

~~~
maxcan
Not jumping to conclusions was exactly what I was saying. I'm not saying that
anyone should have to accept overt racial or discriminatory comments as you
described. I'm saying that the referenced blog post does not contain any
evidence at all besides the name of the poster that this was a racially
motivated act. The problem with accepting the name alone as evidence is that
doing so implies that any inconvenience faced by any member of any racial
minority is automatically an act of racism. Something that is clearly not the
case and is counter productive.

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zerooneinfinity
Just used it, 20 bucks a night to stay in Boston for the weekend, great
experience. Never say never.

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tjbiddle
Could anyone post a mirror, or the content in a comment? The site looks to be
down for me currently.

~~~
dejan
[http://pastebin.com/QqMbAgsF](http://pastebin.com/QqMbAgsF)

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xfour
Can't seem to load the site, can anyone copypasta or mirror?

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ianstallings
I don't use AirBnB for a lot of reasons, and he lists a few I agree with. Just
like renting a place on craigslist the motto seems to be buyer beware. I'd
rather just avoid any issues, spend more $ if need be, and stay in a hotel.

I never got the "BnB" part anyway. Isn't it just B, for Bed. Where does the
breakfast come in?

~~~
karlkatzke
Many of the times I've used AirBnB, there was a (very basic) breakfast, or the
materials for a basic breakfast, provided. Ex: One place had backyard chickens
and an herb garden, and you were welcome to forage for eggs and use herbs from
the backyard to make yourself breakfast. Other times, there was bulk granola
and milk provided.

~~~
ianstallings
Hey, that's something. I'd take it gladly over nothing. I was honestly curious
if any of them came with a breakfast made by the host, which in some places
might be worth staying for just to enjoy! If my grandmother was alive, staying
with her would be worth it just for the morning meal :)

~~~
namenotrequired
I think it's for "historical reasons" \- I remember a PG article mentioning
that they used to think the "breakfast" part was vital, but based on the
feedback they got from users they realised that most of them didn't care about
that.

------
flaugh
This is FUD.

------
tbarbugli
thats how life works man

