

Facebook Lawyer `Unsure' Whether Founder Mark Zuckerberg Signed Contract - vegasbrianc
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-20/facebook-lawyer-unsure-whether-founder-mark-zuckerberg-signed-contract.html

======
tamarindo

      Facebook claims Ceglia remained silent for more 
      than six years and his claim is probably too 
      old to pursue.
    

Have any independent legal experts corroborated Facebook's statement that "his
claim is too old to pursue"?

~~~
nano81
grellas' analysis from the original article here:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1509512>

~~~
grellas
Just one additional note:

The only reason this case got headlines was because a judge entered a TRO and
this usually signifies that a case has merit of some kind. This case is an
exception, however, as explained in my comment linked to above (explaining why
the case has serious problems).

As a follow up, upon removal of the case to federal court, the TRO has
essentially already been dissolved: see
[http://www.allfacebook.com/2010/07/facebook-asset-freeze-
str...](http://www.allfacebook.com/2010/07/facebook-asset-freeze-struck-down-
in-federal-court/).

------
tkeller

        Facebook, which hasn’t claimed the alleged contract with
        Ceglia is a phony, has "serious questions" about its
        authenticity, Simpson said.
    

I don't understand this statement. If you're questioning its authenticity,
aren't you implying that you think it's a phony?

~~~
tamarindo
Yes, but when you have "questions" about something's authenticity, it means
you are the one asking for proof. If you claim that it's a phony, however, the
burden is on you to show why you think it is so.

~~~
tkeller
The question of who has the burden of proof does not turn on whether Facebook
says it has questions or whether it says flat out that it's a phony.

------
nkassis
This is going to be interesting. If this guy wins, facebook is going to have a
hell of a time surviving with uncertainty at the top.

~~~
obsaysditto
Do you think most users will care about this? They'll just want to know if
they can still see what their friends are doing, who has posted new photos,
etc.

~~~
jrockway
What if the new owner decides to "generate revenue" by selling your personal
information to the highest bidder, and then turns the site off? Reselling the
information is cheaper than keeping a bunch of programmers and sysadmins
employed, after all.

~~~
joubert
class action lawsuit perhaps?

~~~
jrockway
"But your honor, I didn't actually _read_ the agreement I signed when I joined
Facebook."

Yeah, that sounds pretty good, but I would have a backup strategy _just in
case_...

------
Elite
According to the above Bloomberg Article: Ceglia claims his alleged contract,
which refers to " _The Face Book_ " was signed about nine months before
Facebook was founded, the company said in court papers.

According to the NYT from 2007:<http://nyti.ms/cC0HwJ> "An e-mail message,
circulated widely by Mr. Greenspan to Harvard students on Sept. 19, 2003,
describes the newest feature of houseSYSTEM, as " _The Face Book_ " an online
system for quickly locating other students. The date was four months before
Mr. Zuckerberg started his own site"

My question: did these two parties independently come up with an idea for "The
Face Book" for Harvard and both pitched it to Zuckerberg? Seems odd at the
very least on the face of things. Greenspan, if you can comment on this --
were you affiliated with Ceglia at all?

~~~
themichael
The traditional Harvard freshman register is known as "The Facebook".

"Harvard Yearbook Publications is responsible for the creation and production
of the Senior Yearbook as well as the Freshman Register (also known as the
Facebook). The Freshman Register is an extremely useful hardbound reference
book for freshmen that contains photographs, addresses, and secondary schools
of class members."

(<http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~yearbook/purchase/>). Login:
<http://facebook.college.harvard.edu>

~~~
vessenes
This is what it was known as at Brown as well - the Freshman Facebook. I think
it's a fairly common name back East..

------
adamtj
Facebook users don't own their data, and now it seems Facebook's owner may not
own Facebook. That seems fitting.

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thinkcomp
I don't know anything about the case, but based on looking at the document, it
looks like Mark's signature and handwriting to me. I guess it could have been
copied from something else, though.

~~~
hop
Is there a copy of that document floating around?

~~~
Elite
[http://www.scribd.com/doc/34239119/Ceglia-v-Zuckerberg-
compl...](http://www.scribd.com/doc/34239119/Ceglia-v-Zuckerberg-complaint)

2003 Contract starts on page 11

~~~
Alex3917
On the last page there is a scan of a bank deposit slip with the routing
number on the bottom. If the bank deposit slip is real then shouldn't it be
possible to verify that with the bank's records?

~~~
qhoxie
FYI you can link to pages now:

Page 11: [http://www.scribd.com/doc/34239119/Ceglia-v-Zuckerberg-
compl...](http://www.scribd.com/doc/34239119/Ceglia-v-Zuckerberg-
complaint#page=11)

Last page: [http://www.scribd.com/doc/34239119/Ceglia-v-Zuckerberg-
compl...](http://www.scribd.com/doc/34239119/Ceglia-v-Zuckerberg-
complaint#page=16)

------
startuprules
"This is not necessarily an open-and-shut case for Facebook. The fact that the
judge froze Facebook's assets suggests there may be extenuating circumstances
favoring Ceglia, Gendelman pointed out.

Also, Ceglia may be planning to argue that the statute of limitations didn't
start until the contract was breached, which would have set the clock ticking
in 2004, said Scott & Scott partner Julie Machal-Fulks.

There is room for that argument in New York law, she told the E-Commerce
Times.

As for the last-minute challenge, that too makes sense -- at least, it can be
argued in court, said Jonathan Askin, associate professor of clinical law at
Brooklyn Law School.

"Logically, these ownership challenges only occur after a company has value or
is on the verge of success. Why would anyone sue a company before it has
value?" he asked."

from <http://www.ecommercetimes.com/rsstory/70403.html>

------
dandelany
How much you wanna bet this is all an ad for the upcoming Facebook movie? ;)

------
klochner
Zuck attracts contract lawsuits like Clinton used to draw sexual harassment
claims.

------
jrockway
They should hire Lisa's brother, Bart, as co-counsel.

~~~
bosch
I thought that was pretty funny. I don't understand the harshness with which
people vote down jokes on here.

~~~
FlemishBeeCycle
If you're familiar with the content on Reddit, where the first 50% of the
comments are puns and memes - not having to wade through that is actually
quite refreshing. As to the harshness, I imagine people want to nip that
behavior in the bud?

~~~
bosch
I agree with you on that point, but I mean for a comment that had nothing to
do with either a pun or a meme it's kinda ridiculous. This site will be like
straight html without any css... and I think a bit of the later helps the
former create a good atmosphere.

------
kwyjibo
No suprise for me. There were already a few posts on hacker news about
Facebook's and Zuckerberg's history, and this is just the creme de la creme.

------
ary
"Behind every great fortune there is a crime." \- Honore de Balzac

This is getting a bit tiresome. Tiresome to hear about, tiresome to watch, and
certainly tiresome to think about. At a gut level I think this isn't the last
contest for ownership of something with debatable value. 500,000,000 sets of
eyeballs have quite a bit of _potential_ , but what guarantee is there of
revenue? Facebook, like Paris Hilton, is popular for being popular. Why is
Facebook _valuable_? No one can say. This is lost on just about everyone.

I suppose I could have just noted that it would be nice if they'd do something
worth talking about once in a while instead of getting sued at an interval.

~~~
n8agrin
I'm pretty sure Facebook has been cash flow positive for a while. Here's the
Techcrunch article about it from nearly a year ago:
[http://techcrunch.com/2009/09/15/facebook-
crosses-300-millio...](http://techcrunch.com/2009/09/15/facebook-
crosses-300-million-users-oh-yeah-and-their-cash-flow-just-went-positive/)

Also here's a report from Reuters:
<http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65H01W20100618>

Well, at least you got to quote Monsieur Balzac. Hell of a name.

~~~
ary
I was aware of Facebook's profitability when I made the post. I still take
issue with whether or not they've provided anything of value. When one gives
search terms to Google one gets back search results. When one gives personal
information to Facebook what does one get in return?

As for the retaliatory down-voting, way to stay classy people.

~~~
matwood
I wouldn't have down voted you, but anyway.

FBs value is in connecting people. Humans are social by nature and FB extends
that social nature out many orders of magnitude. Like you, I do wonder if the
value is being over hyped. Who needs or even wants 100s of 'friends?' Real
friends take time and effort and I wonder if we'll see backlash where people
get back to less friends, but closer relationships.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
I'd like to see all of this go towards Opera's "peernet" style of interaction
(which I got over-excited about before, <http://alicious.com/2009/opera-about-
to-change-the-world/>).

Basically I'm thinking that a browser-server holds your facebook style profile
and mediates access to files on your computer (like photos, videos, or
anything you like). Your profile could be minimally cached with a lookup
service (like linkedin) which would redirect to your browser-server if you're
online or provide an "user is offline" page at other times.

Various services could cache your locally held content.

Basically a decentralised version of FB where each user has their profile on
their own computer - like the move from file repos to (torrent) trackers.

