
Ideas on how to improve customer conversion and ease of use - florian95
http://goodui.org/
======
oinksoft
Meanwhile a distracting footer covers >25% of the page, and clicking the
intuitive "down arrow"-looking thing does nothing, nor is there an obvious
close button. You close it with that über-readable burnt-orange-on-charcoal
link "Ok, enough already. Hide the footer." Either they assume the user scans
for "Ok," when wanting to close something, or that they skim sentences from
the inside-out. If you do close it and click it again, which usually means
"reopen", you instead get scrolled down to the bottom of the page.

Do you trust any advice they have about user interfaces?

~~~
jerf
NoScript wins again. I didn't even know there was a problem until I went back
and deliberately turned on scripting for the domain.

(I mention this just because in the periodic NoScript debates that show up
here, I think people don't believe me when I say for every site it hurts,
there's another site it silently improves.)

~~~
jasimp
I agree completely, people always tell me that NoScript is too much of a
hassle to use. But then two sentences later they'll complain about how ads
cover content and distracting UI elements make it hard to navigate. I'd say
75% of the time I'm much happier with the NoScript version of websites.

------
ivankirigin
Dear HN, just because someone makes a blog post about good UI elements,
doesn't mean you need to shit on details big or small about the specific site
(e.g. the big footer).

For most people, this is a great way to understand the possibilities for
different UIs to test. Instead of just copying others, you can think more
abstractly about the UI ideas.

~~~
pc86
It's not just people's desire to shit on something in order to feel superior
(although that's likely quite a bit of it).

It's the fact that if you have a website dedicated to good user interface, and
you want to be known as an authority on good user interfaces, and the site on
which you intend to launch or grow this authority has a completely FUBARed
user interface... I think it's fair to point that out.

Orange text on dark background? Whatever, it's perfectly readable unless you
have poor eyesight. Footer taking up a full third of the page with no quickly
discernable way to close it? Definite problem and cause for concern regarding
your purported authority on that very issue.

~~~
ulisesrmzroche
I agree with everything you said, but would like to add that apart from having
very poor contrast, which does affect readability, orange text on a dark
background is also quite tacky. Halloween colors.

~~~
lttlrck
The HN header has _never_ spooked me.

------
ulisesrmzroche
If I may offer a little critique:

I'm on the really-hates-the-footer camp. It's off-putting. See the thing about
the footer is that you already broke rule #2, you're trying to close the
sale(it's not a gift, I know you're trying to get me to sign up to your
newsletter) So putting it out like that is just obnoxious, and no one likes an
obnoxious salesman. You should have just put the offer at the very bottom,
once I read your article and I'm liking what you're saying, when I'm half-
sold, not the large black footer that cuts out 1/3 of my screen, and I'm on an
old macbook air, so screen real-estate is important to me at all times. And as
was noted by ascimo(sic?) in this thread, on an android device it literally
blocks the content!

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5996040](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5996040)

The other thing is that it kinda doesn't sell you, which sucks because I'm
sure you're a great dude, but you're telling me I should sign up because
you're awesome, you're smarter, and you have way more fans than me. If you
would have told me how it would have made my life easier, or the holy mantra
(increase revenue, decrease costs) then it would have had a better shot.

The other thing is the headline, then copy, then picture layout of the bullet
points. This goes against how we scan things, which is picture then headline
then body copy. Visual, then bold and big, then small print. When you scroll
down, the first thing you see is the picture, and then I have to scan up real
fast, and then read down. Watch yourself and you'll do the same thing.

Also, that text is not organized in columns, so it makes it hard to read.
Dividing it into two columns (like, say, a book, the epitome of the two column
layout) would be so much easier to read and in turn, sell me more on what
you're saying.

~~~
rexreed
I usually have my NoScript turned on, and it was a very pleasant read because
I didn't even realize there was a footer there until I turned on scripts. In
my opinion, the experience was better with the scripts off, even if the font
wasn't as cool. I got the value from the article without the scripts on and
footer missing.

~~~
ulisesrmzroche
You got the value because you were able to read through the thing already.
However, the other side of the argument is that people are getting turned off
immediately and never read the content, so they don't get any value at all,
and worse, get pissed because the footer was all up on their face.

Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that this sort of
footer is a good case for a GUI anti-pattern. It literally hurts your sales.

~~~
rexreed
That's exactly what I'm saying -- I read through it all because with my
scripts turned off, the footer didn't appear. I didn't even realize it was
there! So, yes, case in point - maybe I wouldn't have read it at all with the
footer, although it's hard to tell now. When others started commenting on the
footer, I had to go back to the page, turn on the scripts and then I was like,
"ok, that's big!".

The content of the article was good nonetheless, but I don't think the footer
added to it, and probably took away from it a bit.

------
ctdonath
The concept of "Good UI" covers way more than "a few quick pointers for
selling a product".

Kinda like going to a page called "goodcuisine.com" and finding it's a dozen
suggestions about cooking and topping hamburgers, with half the points
dwelling mostly on arranging utensils, and a big persistent chunk of the page
devoted to disposable plates.

Great domain name, squandered.

------
Jare
Good advice (heavier on presentation and marketing than true UI), but that
footer bar is godawful and terribly intrusive IMHO.

~~~
gamegoblin
Agreed on the footer. All I did was look for a way to close it. In general, I
hate any part of a page that scrolls with me unless it is a tiny tiny header
or tiny tiny sidebar.

Also, it may just be my machine, but it seems like a lot of these characters
need some antialiasing.

------
RyanMcGreal
As I scrolled down, reading each point, I began to notice something happening
to the number of each item in the periphery of my vision. It took until point
5 before I figured out what it was: the circle around the number is dark grey
until it gets to around the top quarter of the screen (on my screen, at least)
at which point it becomes light grey.

I'm still trying to decide if this is a good idea. Now that I have inferred it
is functioning as a kind of visited-link visual effect, I can leave the page,
return later, and quickly pick up where I left off.

Then again, none of the points are long to read. Worse, I've left the page
after finishing reading point 7 and have no real interest in returning now,
let alone after enough time has passed that I've forgotten where I left off
(in which case I would likely also have forgotten what I had already read).

In other words, I'm inclined to think that this is mainly a needless visual
distraction that actually disrupted me from reading the piece and has ever-so-
slightly nudged me toward the decision not to bother returning to it.

That would seem to fall under the category of Bad UI.

~~~
jmsbrwr
I thought I was just going crazy when I noticed something happening, but
couldn't tell what it was.

------
ape4
Seems alot like advertising instead of real nice UI. Recommending instead of
showing equal choices is pretty bogus - how do they know me?

~~~
acoyfellow
It's not saying use some kind of development trick to ID your user. I believe
the purpose of this tip is to make a stronger emotional connection with the
users.

By using a recommendation as opposed to just a list of choices, that lends
itself to a more "personalized experience" \-- even if that list is __exactly
the same

~~~
PavlovsCat
_the purpose of this tip is to make a stronger emotional connection with the
users_

Actually, the idea is to "make them" make an emotional connection with
product.

This is as nice as the Japanese using robot pets to keep the elderly company.
This is not an emotional connection, this is playing tricks on fools to sell
them shit they don't need.

Whatever happened to the idea that maybe, _just maybe_ , some people land on
your page for whatever reasons, and not because they have any use for what
you're selling? That you're not entitled to every single last one of them? If
they see 5 products, and don't _really_ want any of them, what's the problem
with that? Why nudge and prod and leer ever which way?

~~~
acoyfellow
I disagree with your drastic metaphor. I don't think that using a single word:
"Recomended" is any kind of masterful psychological ploy. It's very subtle,
and undemanding.

And a trick is only a trick if it dosen't work. Otherwise, they are providing
value. Even if it's just a Japanese Robotic Dog.

If you consider it a "trick", then I would suggest you look into "Dark UI
patterns" \-- there is no intention to deceive.

"Whatever happened to the idea that maybe, just maybe, some people land on
your page for whatever reasons, and not because they have any use for what
you're selling? " \-- then why would the user even be there? It'd be a void of
information, without attempting to provide value to the user (even if the
value comes in the form of a item they need to purchase).

Prodding and nudging have negative connotations attached to them-- and I
really don't think that just by attempting to humanize a the user experience
deserves such harsh judgement.

~~~
PavlovsCat
> _I disagree with your drastic metaphor. I don 't think that using a single
> word: "Recomended" is any kind of masterful psychological ploy._

Where did I call it masterful? What even gave you that impression? Huh.

> _And a trick is only a trick if it dosen 't work. Otherwise, they are
> providing value. Even if it's just a Japanese Robotic Dog._

The question is, to whom are they providing value, and what value is it. Just
"providing value" is like "being safe", it's, to quote you, a "void of
information". Maybe just skip to doubleplusgood, same thing.

> _If you consider it a "trick", then I would suggest you look into "Dark UI
> patterns" \-- there is no intention to deceive._

There's always something worse. There's always something better, too. For
starters I recommend "Politics and the English Language" by Orwell (or
anything he wrote on writing really, consider it a crash course in
intellectual honesty) and this [http://fadeyev.net/2012/06/19/moral-
design/](http://fadeyev.net/2012/06/19/moral-design/)

A trick doesn't require intent, either. An insect might camouflage itself just
because it happened to evolve that way, no thought process involved.

> _then why would the user even be there?_

Because it's kinda hard to see what's on a webpage without going to it, duh...

This is like having a pet food shop, and then wondering why some people even
_look at_ your shop, when they don't even have pets, or don't want your pet
food. This is how mindless the web became in roughly a decade. Just
astonishing.

> _Prodding and nudging have negative connotations attached to them-- and I
> really don 't think that just by attempting to humanize a the user
> experience deserves such harsh judgement._

What do you even mean by "humanize" in this context? I know what it means in
electronic music, to just shuffle stuff around so it _seems_ human when it's
really not. So either rephrase, or thanks for making my point for me.

This is about conversion ratios, not the human condition, unless I missed
something. This is about making gifts so people feel like they owe you
something, making sure the gift is less worth to you than what the average
customer will give you for it. This is about acting nice while not actually
being nice.

I wouldn't care as much if people groomed by marketing wouldn't also fall for
politicians employing the same tricks, and maybe if the web could retain a bit
breathing room from all the huge fonts and "hero shots" that show you "what
you'll get" (a woman holding an agenda, that's the product? No wait... gotta
love how marketers can't even _help_ bullshitting each other).

------
sethbannon
I like this, but what is the point of the "Looks like you have 16 unread
ideas" part? A user is only going to see that when I first land on the page,
and hence it's always going to read 16. When is a user ever going to scroll
back up to the top to check the count after having scrolled part way down the
page?

~~~
cloverich
Its meant to be a list of ideas thats occasionally updated (hence the mailing
list). If you go back to the page, it will instantly tell you if its been
updated or not (assuming you kept the cookie).

------
k__
2, 4, 7, 9 and 12 have nothing to do with UI. They are just marketing
methods...

~~~
acoyfellow
This is a fair point, but marketing and a good UI have many things in common.
The UI is how you interact with a product, and the marketing is how you
communicate with your ideal viewer.

Those numbers are marketing methods, that use the UI as a medium for
communication.

Without the UI, this marketing method would be useless and have no value.

edit: I think that the blending of the marketing mind with the
designer/developer mind is actually yielding awesome results. The author of
the site has really come into a groove when combining successful marketing
methods with bleeding edge UI techniques. This is a valuable idea and I'm
excited to see if the author can keep producing this level of content.

~~~
k__
Right but the UI tips can be used in many applications, the marketing tips
just apply to specific cases, like when talking to a potential customer.

------
eddieroger
It's funny how these trends change. Once upon a time, a one column layout
would have been boring, and we all ran to frames to give us columns. I guess
I'm just old-timer enough now to start seeing the changes.

~~~
eksith
Multiple columns still make sense for certain types of content. There's a
reason news papers still use them centuries later.

Single column only works on a single page/article/concept being shared. Beyond
that, it gets a bit silly to get from point a to b, but there are times when
multiple columns still work.

Maybe when I'm done with reading, I like to check out related links on the
side. I'd rather not scroll all the way to the bottom to do that. Or if I run
an ad, I want to make sure the placement (though still outside the main body
of the article to not be distracting) is still at prime real-estate.

Do X for a better Y is always tricky business. It's sometimes not as simple as
one column.

------
kcbanner
Heh, "Try Giving a Gift instead of closing a sale right away". I start to read
this sentence and a giant email signup footer pops up, covering it.

~~~
ThomPete
The advice is the gift

------
jalfresi
I personally reject the notion that "...A Good User Interface has high
conversion rates and is easy to use". I don't agree that it is a requirement
that a good UI has high conversion rates. In fact I would argue that software
can have a good UI and poor conversion rates. A good UI is responsible to the
user only; it's not called a USER interface for nothing.

~~~
Noxchi
If a user experience designer designed a club, there would be plenty of space,
bright lighting, comfortable furniture, the bathrooms would be clean, plenty
of bartenders and the menu would be in 18 point sans serif font. Meanwhile,
everyone would be at club Coyote Ugly pouring beer on each other.

~~~
woah
Game designers for clubs, UX designers for the DMV :)

------
boothead
This is a great list of resources!

I'd be very interested to see how well it converted, as it would seem that the
main idea is to get people to sign up to Jakub's email list (which I have done
on the strength of the material).

Jakub, would you be willing to share your conversion numbers from the influx
of HN traffic based on this page? Maybe send it out in the newsletter I just
signed up for :-)

 _edit_ why the downvote?

~~~
amac
I'm one of those who has signed up. I guess I'm probably one of the many
developers who are also really bad at copy out there also. (As you can see at
usehuman.com)

~~~
wavefunction
I checked out your site. One quick suggestion is your list under "Reasons
Companies Choose Prospect For Hiring"

If you're going to break up a list into two columns, the numbered items should
travel vertically before continuing in the second column, it's the natural
reading style for people in the West.

ie. (*edit HN is collapsing what should be vertical numbers on separate lines
into one line)

1 2 3

(column 2)

4 5 6

------
giulianob
Any empirical evidence to show any of these things are actually good? Some
"seem" to be common sense (e.g. less form fields to lower sign up friction)
but a lot of the other things appear to be what one UX designer thinks it's a
good idea rather than anything that might actually help you.

~~~
borlak
Your target audience is going to heavily influence most of these.

At a previous company our target audience was older women. We A-B tested every
single element on our landing page, and I can tell you, using the advice on
this site would be a complete disaster.

~~~
hkyeti
Any examples? Would be interesting for many of us here

~~~
borlak
I can give some examples but my point was basically you have to test for your
specific desired user base, and these kinds of posts don't really mean much.

Some things that we did: autoplaying videos. enormous graphics and big text.
lots of "as seen on !". landing page was probably 6000-7000 pixels high and
the form was near the bottom.

------
jwdunne
I love this guide and I love how it's presented. The ideas look easier to use
and definitely look nicer.

I would, however, be weary of implementing these ideas for the purposes of
improving conversion because there aren't any numbers with each improvement.
How does this author know for sure these ideas improve conversion? If they
have been split-tested, this article provides a very good starting point of
ideas for your own tests.

I'm not urging against trying these ideas though, definitely not, but please
do test these for yourself. There are loads of factors which may make these
ideas less ideal, such as your market, your product or service, your branding;
the factors are potentially unlimited. Use a good A/B testing tool and measure
impact on your conversions when implementing these!

------
PavlovsCat
Testimonials are one of the things that make me skip things right away. I
would explain why, but I'm afraid that would at best be used to find ways to
circumvent that, and deprive me of one of the litmus tests for mediocrity and
needyness.

Speaking of needy: Calls to action I accept from activists, but that's it.
Just describe the service or product, name the price, instead of treating me
like a moron who needs to pulled along the funnel. Keep your gifts, too. Well,
all of that depends on your target audience I guess - I surely am not in it,
phew.

~~~
nhebb
It's a list of things to try out in order to improve conversions. Individual
items on the list may not appeal to you (or me, either), but that misses the
point of the article.

~~~
Argorak
This is a very cultural thing. In germany, no one uses testimonials, they are
often seen as either fake or bragging and a sign that you don't want to talk
about your product.

~~~
PavlovsCat
It's like "fake word of mouth".

------
keithpeter
I found this an interesting read (I happen to use noscript and so saw a long
scrolling page with no jumping footer).

However, as the 'call to action' at the bottom of the page suggests more
content to come, I have to wonder if the address of this page
([http://goodui.org/](http://goodui.org/)) will remain the same or if the new
content will replace this content. There appears to be no easily discoverable
'permalink'. Is this a noscript artefact?

------
3amOpsGuy
Undo's, yes!

Power users aren't tripped up with an annoying confirmation. Novice users can
revert. This seems a much better paradigm.

Are there any cases where this doesn't make for good UX?

~~~
nwh
Lots of actions are destructive and can't work with an "undo" quite so well as
in that example. I would prefer to see a confirm diglogue for deleting an
account, changing a password, that sort of thing. I would tend to avoid it
anyway, as an undo button isn't something users are going to be looking out
for in a web context.

~~~
gbl08ma
Not to mention, that for many of these destructive actions adding a undo
function often incurs in higher storage costs.

For example, in the case of deleting information, the easiest way to provide
an undo function is to never really delete anything and just flag as deleted
(something that doesn't free up storage, and if implemented without the users'
knowledge, is abusive in terms of data privacy and ownership).

As for users not expecting the existence of an undo button in a web context,
well, Gmail for instance has an "undo" link for lots of actions (archiving,
moving to trash, etc.). I'm sure other web services provide similar things
too.

~~~
fixedd
Just clean it up later... flag as "delete in 1 day" or something.

------
wavefunction
There are a few good ideas in here, but a lot of questionable ones.

For example:

Turn your content into marked lists rather than have a gap?

The list format is only really useful for indicating additional content if
you're providing some sort of marking like 1/16, 2/16, etc. to indicate
position relative to "the end." The whole thing about the visual gap is just
as true with the gap between list items and other content formats.

~~~
gojomo
Maybe people habitually search for a stronger end-of-list indicator, once a
list starts, \ like a larger gap or return to un-numbered wider-columned
text... so simply using a list helps immunize against short breaks causing
problems.

Also, perhaps you could decorate the bullets/numbers in some sort of boundary-
escaping way that always helps hint there's a next item. (For example, using a
diamond background where the top point always reaches to be alongside the
previous item's body text.)

Of course, these theories/ideas would need testing.

~~~
wavefunction
Those are interesting suggestions. Cheers

------
adamlj
I would say that this has more to do with making a good Landing Page than User
Interfaces in general. All good and solid advices thou.

------
bencollier49
When the enormous advertisement appeared, I laughed, and assumed that the page
was making a point about bad UI.

------
asciimo
Here's a screenshot of the newsletter form occluding content in Android.
[https://www.dropbox.com/sc/jln36yrne8jzhbr/X_r8tldSXn](https://www.dropbox.com/sc/jln36yrne8jzhbr/X_r8tldSXn)
Do you have to submit it to dismiss it? :)

~~~
ulisesrmzroche
See, this is a great find, and adds to the case against the sticky footer.
It's almost a slap in the face when you come from an Android device.

------
cldr
W.r.t idea 15, I don't see how numbering things suggests continuity. The one
on the left looks just as false-bottomy as the righthand one to me. Unless you
have something sticking halfway on the page, or an arrow that points down or
something, numbering doesn't solve this.

------
jezclaremurugan
> Try Fewer Form Fields instead of asking for too many.

Asks for Full Name to subscribe.

------
yaix
I liked the point about offering an "undo" instead of "confirm action". The
rest was just basics on sales pitch UI design.

And that anoying footer that covers 1/3 of my netbook screen?

------
kailuowang
Awesome page, it itself can be deemed as a good example of good UI design as I
can learn the majority of the lessons by quickly scroll down and read just
just the titles and pictures.

------
gvkv
The suggestions themselves are decent but I have a hard time taking UI
recommendations from someone who insists on using low contrast text:
[http://www.linowski.ca/](http://www.linowski.ca/). I can barely read his
copy. Why and how anyone thinks that usability isn't made worse by using
medium grey on white or light grey backgrounds is baffling to me.

It's been a while but the next time I hire a design firm, my first test will
be to see if they use low contrast text.

EDIT: I just found this
[http://contrastrebellion.com/](http://contrastrebellion.com/).

------
shyn3
Hey your keyboard shortcut for N doesn't work. Infact M goes to next and P
goes to previous. I think J/K are easier to use compared to N/P also.

~~~
shyn3
Sorry someone had replaced my N and M keys.

------
tricolon
Previous discussion:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5526905](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5526905)

------
SCAQTony
I was very impressed - I would have added no reversed-out type, or white type
on a black background, if the text exceeds more than 12-words

------
dschiptsov
yeah, yeah, nice tutorial how to make a website for a new scam like MongoDB -
Instead of having a decent product you have a "convincing design" (and
"convincing blah-blah-blahs" from patio11).

All ideas in themselves are nothing new.. Sparse is better than dense, subtle
is better than direct, manipulation attempts are offensive, etc..)

------
revskill
One interesting thing here: The less balanced design structure is, the more
focus the reader gets to read all content. :)

------
ebbv
Some of these are good ideas others are pure opinion and don't necessarily
make sense in all contexts.

~~~
wikwocket
But all may be worth testing to see how they perform with your particular
market/audience. The whole idea of A/B testing is to not rely on intuition or
tradition, but on tested approaches.

------
dreamdu5t
Ugh that condensed font is horrible!

------
seivan
Another list of subjective suggestions. Meanwhile rendering it took a while.

------
gesman
Now i have to go through all my sites and remove all funny cat videos!!!!

------
bwy
Agree that the footer is annoying. The page also seems to break #15.

------
bizodo
The site needs a mobile friendly UI for newsletter sign up.

------
ziko
I thought these points are common sense.

------
speeder
I loved this site, it has a so fucking huge footer that irritated me as I
could not even see the images completely that I closed the tab in rage.

------
workbench
More marketing than UI

