
Ask HN: Gay bashing at bayarea tech company—What do? - ansfprogrammer
I work for a large tech company in the bay area. We often eat lunch on site. Last week one of my coworkers (tho not on my direct team) went on a ~5min rant at lunch in front of a number of my team members. The rant was basically about &quot;The GAYS&quot; and how awful it was that they are in clubs and bars of SOMA (where I live).
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runawaybottle
Sometimes certain groups of people have a darker sense of humor, and often
resort to absurd, obnoxious, and offensive forms of humor. I know I do.
Understand that this person is just another person, and probably got too
comfortable on a rant meant for just his friends and spoke louder than he
should have. If it's a consistent thing, at least confront the guy on the
side, you two might be able to have a laugh about it. If he persists and rants
right in your face, yeah, put his job on the line and take it to HR.

He's just another person and we all fuck up. I totally get no one should have
to put up with this in the workplace, but was his transgression so bad that
you can't at least talk to him first. I honestly don't think being offended is
worse than putting someone's livelihood in jeopardy. The man may be an idiot,
but he might have kids, a wife, who knows.

~~~
eshvk
Let me put this across in a different way. Suppose you are interviewing a guy
and he expresses the same opinion. Hell, let us change the context bit
(assuming you are American/European), assume he comes by and tells you that he
think that Jews are controlling the media or denies the holocaust. Would you
laugh it off and be OK with hiring him? After all, it could just be him having
a darker sense of humor. After all, he might have kids, a wife, who knows.

Yes, we all fuck up in life. Guess what, sometimes, second chances are hard to
come by.

~~~
scotth
Second comment, you're an idiot. This is crazy talk.

Get some perspective.

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wasd
I would write down all the details of the conversation including but not
limited to who was there and what was said as soon as possible. Try be as
unbiased and impartial as possible. Hopefully, your large tech company has an
HR division that you can lodge a complaint to. Contact them and ask them what
the process is. Take your written thoughts and convert them into a letter to
the department.

~~~
pm24601
Absolutely. This is not acceptable behavior. Silence encourages other bad
behavior and contributes to a toxic atmosphere. The duration of the rant makes
this not a accidental slip.

HR needs to be involved.

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staunch
If a gay woman had been ranting about all "The GUYS" and how awful it was that
they are in the clubs and bars of SOMA would you have felt the same way?

Genuinely not implying that you wouldn't have, but I think it's worth
considering. Not having heard what was said it's hard to offer much in the way
of an opinion.

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supergauntlet
This has nothing to do with the OP's question, stop trying to divert attention
away to your own agenda.

~~~
staunch
I must just be a bigot with an agenda, you're right.

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mindslight
Report him to Thought Control and get the rats on his face STAT.

Whatever happened to just socially shunning people like this? I guess the lure
to exercise newfound oppressive power is just too strong, and so the cycle
continues.

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a3n
I've said a lot stupid shit in my time. I'm glad I had a chance to learn and
change.

~~~
nbm
How did you learn and change?

~~~
AnimalMuppet
For me, it was like this:

I went to lunch with two co-workers. The waitress brought us glasses of waters
(and straws) before our meal. The other two guys started getting their straws
out of those little paper tubes they come in, but I just picked up my glass
and took a sip. I said, "straight guys don't use straws" \- not meaning it as
anything more than a gentle bit of smack talk.

A bit later, I found out that one of the two was gay.

Was I trying to offend? No. Was I being offensive? Probably. Am I now more
sensitive about it? Certainly - not because HR got on my case, but because I
now know that I have a friend who is gay, and I can see the situation at least
somewhat through his eyes.

Will I find some other way to screw up and be insensitive in the future?
Probably - I'm not the most socially clued-in guy. But I'm not going to try to
be offensive, and I'm learning to be more sensitive than I was.

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nbm
First, don't do anything that will likely hurt your own situation. If you have
a reasonable belief the HR team or others would share your identity along with
the disclosure, and you don't feel confident you can quickly find a new job ,
don't do it.

First prize is speaking to them yourself. Let them know that you considered it
inappropriate and why - that it might be hurtful to others (or that it was
hurtful to you), may lead them to not enjoy working at the company, may lead
to them having various troubles, &c. Probably no need to take it further if
you believe they've taken your feedback on.

Otherwise, assuming you consider it safe, speak to someone in HR at the very
least. Ask them what the policies are and what would likely happen, and feel
comfortable you can share the identity of the person without them getting
instantly fired, if that's bothering you.

If you can and feel comfortable, speak to their manager. That's what their
manager is there to discuss with them. They hopefully have a good rapport and
this can be brought up in their next discussion.

If you have a good relationship with your manager, talk to them - but realise
that they're obligated to inform the HR department about it.

If your company has an "Employee Resource Group" for LGBT employees, speak to
someone in it (if you're in a sufficiently "large tech company in the bay
area", it will probably have one).

(If you're at Facebook, firstly, I think you should feel comfortable doing all
the above without fear of any downside, but I'd be happy to talk to you about
it in person or online and connect you with the right people.)

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midas007
The person behaved as an unvarnished moron which put everyone that listened to
that rant into even more potentially very awkward situations with HR. There's
a double standard of not narcing but also not letting it go unchecked. More
than likely the individual will fail on their own. "Live and let die" is my
motto, unless they become too much of an obvious liability in which case an
"innocent" question may be the most expedient.

PS: It's sad that hate is alive and well in Moscow, where hate language,
behavior and attitude unchecked has led to wrongly labeling them pedophiles
and patrols beating up anyone suspected of being gay. It's disgusting. Russia
really needs a gay rights movement and a broader cultural/political revolution
to modernize in line with more "civilized" countries.
[http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/01/russia-rise-
hom...](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/01/russia-rise-homophobic-
violence)

~~~
eshvk
This 'not narcing' bullshit has to go sometimes. This is one of the reasons it
is so hard to bring cops to justice.

~~~
midas007
<rant>A few are shameless crooks with a badge and a gun, some are just
unprofessionaly aggressive and there's a few good ones here and there. The
prob is for them: does someone "betray" a fellow officer whom has their life
in their hands? The police leadership has to be solid, set the tone and be
relentless about actual professionalism and service, instead of being a menace
to the community.</rant>

Perhaps police should all have "GoPro" cameras permanently on them and their
vehicles streaming live to a web archive whenever they're on duty (apart from
bathroom, etc.) so that whatever happens is permanent part of the public
record.

~~~
6d0debc071
Police deal with vulnerable people on a regular basis. Putting everything they
do on public record would cause a lot of harm.

Not that I'm saying there shouldn't, ideally, be some definitive record of
events - and technology seems to be getting there. But the conflicting demands
for accountability and privacy can be pretty complex.

If you're dealing with a kid who's been cautioned for drug possession, who
gets to look at those records? If someone reports a rape?

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eshvk
Hah. I had this issue with a former roommate (engineer working for a 'large
tech' company in SF) who used to bash gay people all the time. When I called
him out on this shit, he said that he couldn't be homophobic because he "lived
in San Francisco."

~~~
reeses
"So did Dan White?"

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mattm
Did you say anything?

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ansfprogrammer
The whole thing deeply saddened and bothered me. I am just not sure what to do
about it.

~~~
danellis
Why didn't you call him out at the time? That's not a dig; I genuinely wonder
why. Is he a friend? More influential than you? Did others seem to be agreeing
with him?

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meerita
I feel pity for the people who rants about gays or gays who rant about people.
Such waste of time. Our ancestors were smarter on this matter, none of them
wasted time on this for sure.

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dfraser992
The tech crowd is already in enough trouble for driving the poor / non-white /
non-IT out of SF (or appearing to) due to the gentrification thanks to all the
money sloshing around these days.

Now homosexuals are going to have to leave SF? Christ.

Tell this idiot to read a history book and then report him to HR. He'd better
leave SF and he'd be much happier if he is going to have that attitude.

