
What SimpliFlying learned from forcing staff to take regular vacation time - pc86
https://hbr.org/2017/08/what-one-company-learned-from-forcing-employees-to-use-their-vacation-time
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pc86
To those coming directly to the comments, this is more than the "you must take
at least 2 weeks a year" thing we've all read about before:

> _I recently collaborated with Shashank Nigam, the CEO of SimpliFlying, a
> global aviation strategy firm of about 10 people, to ask a simple question:
> “What if we force people to take a scheduled week off every seven
> weeks?”...And it was entirely mandatory...The system is designed so that you
> don’t get a say in when you go. Some may say that’s a downside, but for this
> experiment, we believed that putting a structure in place would be a
> significant benefit._

~~~
silverbax88
So that system is inherently flawed as well. All that does is add another time
management problem to the worker - they will still have to schedule time off
for all of the things that don't happen in that mandatory time off, and they
will still have to front-load all of their work into the days before they are
out of the office, and then have even more work waiting for them when they
return.

In the article, they found out that 7 weeks was too often, 12 weeks was too
far apart, so they moved it to 8 weeks. Bluntly, at that point as an employee
I'd be looking elsewhere as fast as I could. I'd rather just have a job that
let me set my own time off and not hassle me about it - making me juggle even
more nonsense like that would just be another obstacle to actually
accomplishing anything at work, and make it even harder to leave work behind
when away from the office.

~~~
pc86
They allude to this in the article, but part of the reason why this is
regularly scheduled and mandatory is that there's no front-loading of work.
You simply stop coming in and the work is spread to other folks on that
team/project, because they knew you were going to be out anyway.

And of course they'll still have to schedule other time off. I don't think
anything in the article says this is the _only_ time they're out of the
office.

~~~
Beltiras
6 weeks is plenty vacation time in the year. I'd go bonkers having to take
more.

~~~
jnty
Could you explain why - would it make your working life harder, or do you
struggle to find things to do outside work?

~~~
Beltiras
I took the job I have to make a dent in the universe. I like time off but that
much time might be too much for me.

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amluto
One thing I didn't see mentioned here: some companies, especially in finance,
have mandatory vacation for another reason. Forcing people to take time off
prevents them from becoming critical and make sure that the rest of the team
is able to handle their absence.

There's a more cynical reason, too. If you're up to no good, the rest of your
team is more likely to notice when you're on vacation, they're covering for
you, and whatever you came up with to hide your malfeasance is on hold.

~~~
mfringel
To amplify that point, a large amount of finance malfeasance involves doing
alterations on a daily basis, and an enforced vacation foils that.

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nxsynonym
I feel fortunate that my company gives generous vacation time (up to 4 weeks),
plus sick days, "personal days", and national holidays.

We have a use it or lose it policy, which encourages everyone to use it. I'm
also fortunate that the work for my role specifically is pretty easily managed
with a reduced team, and has natural periods of being slow.

That said, it does feel weird to take extended vacation (2 weeks plus) even
though its entirely within our rights as employees. There's a feeling of FOMO
and fear of being seen as a slacker for taking too much time at once.

I like the pre-set vacation times, but it does make it hard for things like
coordinating small teams so theres no over-lapping vacations. It also would
make it hard/near impossible to schedule events in the future - e.g. weddings
- unless you had some say over when the week was taken.

~~~
Normal_gaussian
> I feel fortunate that my company gives generous vacation time (up to 4
> weeks), plus sick days, "personal days", and national holidays.

In the UK we get a _minimum_ of 5.6 weeks leave by law. I am unfortunate in
that I currently have the minimum, most of my friends have 6 or 7 weeks leave.

~~~
bryanlarsen
Your 5.6 weeks is inclusive of bank holidays though; you get less than the
parent's 4 weeks.

~~~
rovek
Depends on the country. England has 8 public holidays, Scotland seems to have
~10 though.

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mnm1
This is amazing. It would not only avoid burnout but also help with repetitive
stress injuries and other problems that need rest. Right now I try to schedule
a long three week vacation every year but I'm burnt out for months before it
and have pain almost constantly except right after vacation when it's less or
even gone. I wish more employers would do this or at least offer more than two
or three weeks a year. Instead, I file workers comp cases, work well below my
capability because I'm not healthy, and spend an inordinate amount of time
looking for and going to doctors and physical therapists. In the end, they'd
get a lot more work and better work with this system or one like it but most
employers don't even consider it, just like they don't consider the impact of
having bad lighting in the office and a lot of other small details that can be
fixed cheaply but affect people in major ways.

~~~
maxxxxx
I also wonder how health costs would change if Americans took more vacation.
Since I am in the US with only 3 weeks vacation I am constantly exhausted and
the vacation time is simply not enough to recover. If people weren't as
exhausted they would most likely be in much better health.

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BrandoElFollito
> an entirely new approach to managing vacation.

New as in "in place for 50 years in France"

Either your company closes for August and you have to take vacation, or you
are forced to take 2 contiguous weeks in summer.

Then they are school vacations you obviously take as well. Planning in a
company is done around them.

Then there is May, which is full of holes filled in with vacation days. And
often compulsory days off between Christmas and new year.

It works great, I am relaxed coming back to the office to my 300 emails from
my non French colleagues who do not expect me to answer anyway while I am away
(I never read my emails while on vacation)

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rabboRubble
This is an anti-fraud measure pure and simply. Also a policy against a loss of
staff business recovery type situation.

Often a person has to leave the office for a period of time for others to have
the opportunity to discover the crime. The enforced absence prevents ongoing
cover ups.

Also, having a person leave their position for a period of time forces cross
training between staff. If a person can't be gone for a 1 week holiday, the
company is going to be fucked if that person gets hit by a bus one day.

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thoughtsimple
This approach has a problem. Not everything can be relegated to a fixed
schedule. For example, I have a friend taking next week off to go eclipse
watching. How is that accommodated with a mandatory week off every 8.

~~~
ceejayoz
"Hey, can I swap weeks with so-and-so?" "Sure!"

~~~
thaumasiotes
Not a good response to "I have a friend taking next week off to go eclipse
watching. How is that accommodated with a mandatory week off every 8."

The eclipse happens at a fixed time; if your model of vacation is that
employees are supposed to swap their randomly-scheduled vacations around to
get the times they want, you'll immediately notice that there's much more
demand than supply for vacation during the eclipse.

~~~
ceejayoz
The "schedule your own time" model doesn't work any better for that scenario.
If 75% of the company wants to go to the eclipse, you're either going to close
up shop for the week (like European companies frequently do for vacation) or
tell some folks no.

~~~
thaumasiotes
American companies working on the "schedule your own time" model don't even
necessarily close up shop during the week of Christmas, when well over 75% of
the company takes vacation. Things are slow, but they're open.

Why is that "not any better" than the model where everyone _wants_ to take
vacation, but they're not allowed? It seems like an obvious improvement,
whether you decide to close for the week or not.

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mamon
Ok, so US company re-discovered benefits of something that in Europe is
mandated by law :) Once again we can see how US is a place to earn money and
Europe is a place for work-life balance.

~~~
pc86
Where in Europe is it mandated by law that someone take a week off every two
months?

~~~
relevantjoin
Well, not exactly the same but here in France for example we have 5 weeks
holiday per year plus n days extra to compensate for the maximum number of
days I am allowed to work per year (219). n is variable because of official
holidays and is 7 for me this year. The summer holidays are 2 weeks
minimum..... by law.

~~~
mamon
Yes, that's exactly what I meant. In Poland it is similar: you have 26
vacation days and you have to use them all, with at least one two weeks in one
go. Employer can be fined if employees don't use all of their vacation days.

Add 5-7 days of bank holidays on top of that and average Polish employee has
at least two or three vacation periods per year.

My own, single data point from this year:

one week vacations in February (skiing),

5 days in April (Easter + 2 vacation days),

one week beginning of May (two bank holidays one day apart + 3 vacation days),

two weeks in August,

one week planned for Christmas (requiring only 3 vacation days).

Fairy typical schedule in my country.

