
Microsoft Has Broken Millions of Webcams with Windows 10 Anniversary Update - vezycash
https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/76719/microsoft-broken-millions-webcams-windows-10-anniversary-update
======
mintplant
It also switched my default web browser from Firefox to Edge and replaced the
Firefox icon I'd pinned to my taskbar with an Edge one in the same position.
Switching back required clicking a small link on an extra scare prompt buried
in the control panel where the large, default button was to stick with Edge.
No wonder its market share seems to be ticking up.

In addition the update cleared a bunch of my settings, including silently
switching on some of the privacy-questionable features I'd opted out of
previously. The update process itself wasn't pleasant, either: while I was
away from my desk my laptop woke up from sleep, threw away everything I had
open (including a running VM instance, risking data corruption), and launched
into a patching process that cost me nearly an hour of work time.

I understand the importance of automatic updates security-wise, but Microsoft
seems to be actively user-hostile here.

</rant>

~~~
nightski
I just installed the Anniversary update. It did not replace my default
browser. It _did_ however suggest making Edge my default with an option to do
so. I cancelled this.

It also added Edge to my taskbar but did not replace either Firefox or Chrome.
Are you sure it replaced it?

Seems like some misinformation here.

~~~
mintplant
Yeah, I'm positive. There was no user interaction involved: when I came back
to my laptop, it was updating, and when the updated completed all the changes
I described had been made. Privacy settings had been reset, Edge had become my
default browser, and the Edge icon had taken Firefox's place on the taskbar.

~~~
lostphilosopher
MSFT thanks you both for your participation in an ongoing AB test.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
It could be a Europe vs. other region thing, or similar, too?!

~~~
mitm2mitm
Or maybe they are putting all that telemetry to "good" use.

------
0x0
"It was important for us to enable concurrent camera access" -> tinfoil hat
mode: cortana is secretly spying on you through the web cam.

[https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/windowsdesktop/en-U...](https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/windowsdesktop/en-
US/9d6a8704-764f-46df-a41c-8e9d84f7f0f3/mjpg-encoded-media-type-is-not-
available-for-usbuvc-webcameras-after-
windows-10-version-1607-os?forum=mediafoundationdevelopment#fc5c100a-c661-43cd-9540-bb4591e3d1fe)

~~~
striking
See, I'm okay with them adding concurrent camera access, because I still
recall the days I was using Skype on XP and would get blue screens if anything
else forgot to close the webcam.

That's true though: why is it important _for them_?

~~~
0x0
And why not make it a new opt-in API for new applications? What it should have
been: Run an old API app -> exclusive webcam access. Run new/updated API apps
-> concurrent webcam access.

To think, Microsoft used to be all about preserving backwards compatibility to
the extreme.

~~~
izacus
Because history shows that developers don't update their apps and drivers if
they're not forced to. As such this change would be pointless if a crappy
team, like Skype :P, would refuse to update their API and would block
concurrent access for all other apps.

------
eggy
I didn't have an issue with the 10-day rollback after that period. My Win 10
install was working fine for 6 months, until the Start button disappeared.

No problem: I found lots of solutions online. Problem: none worked, and the
ultimate suggestion was to refresh or reset. Refresh didn't work, so I had to
reset losing all of my installed apps and settings.

When given the choice, I just went back to Win 8.1. I am astounded that a
'version 10' of any software would have such a keystone issue, at least losing
the ability to navigate my GUI without crazy right clicks and searches.

I run Mac and Linux too, so I am not a fanboy of any one particular OS. I call
problems out on all of them equally. I just want them not to bother me while I
am working ;) Or waste a day reinstalling apps and re-registering them, and
setting them.

In 38 years of owning and running computers, two systems stand out as
particularly robust - my 1978 Commodore PET with built-in cassette tape drive
storage, and a FreeBSD box I was running for a long time until the hard drive
failed due to operator error!

~~~
cheshire137
Sounds like my experience with USB keyboard and mouse not working after a
restart. They work in the BIOS, but as soon as the Windows loading screen
appears, they stop working. I restored my PC to a restore point, they worked
again. After another restart, they stopped working. I reset my PC, losing apps
and settings. They worked again until another restart. I had set up remote
access, so I was able to use my trusty MacBook to remote in and remove every
"USB Root Hub" in Device Manager, then let Windows self-heal. That caused my
mouse and keyboard to work again.

So basically I have to keep a secondary PC around in case my Windows 10 PC
ever reboots, so I can have a mouse and keyboard. I saw lots of posts online
about keyboard and mouse not working on boot in Windows 10, but
unplugging/replugging seemed to work for those people. It did nothing for me.
I saw advice to disable fast boot, but even after doing that, on restart they
stopped working. It also seems pretty suspect that the keyboard and mouse work
fine in my BIOS and only stop responding after the Windows 10 spinner appears.

------
cm3
When Microsoft laid off much of their test dev teams 1 or 2 years ago, was the
plan to roll out beta code to everyone and outsource QA? Genuine question.

I mean, if they're serious about this, making Windows open source would make
sense, so that external testers can also contribute patches for consideration.

~~~
existencebox
Disclaimer: MSFtie, who came in prior to that switch as an SDET, and was
converted to a SWE during the layoffs.

In case your genuine was genuine, I'll give a somewhat serious answer: The
intention was that the SDET work would be picked up by SWEs who would be
responsible with dev and test. Ops also is slowly being absorbed in this
manner (this current wonderful permutation of the word "devops")

As to my thoughts on the transition... let the assertion that my home machines
are still (happily) running 7 speak for itself; and I say that with
unfortunate tone in that I'm a big fan of hyper-v integration/DX12.

~~~
perfectfire
I used to work at Microsoft and have never heard or seen the TLA SWE before.
Did mean to type SDE?

~~~
existencebox
Sorry for the confusion, I was at G prior and the "SWE" nomenclature never
really dropped for me. SDE/SWE is pretty much interchangeable in my book

~~~
perfectfire
Ah that makes sense. I'm interviewing with G soon and so I hope to to be an
SWE soon.

------
jimrandomh
I just checked, and Windows 10 had turned on the "Send Microsoft info about
how I write" option, which I had definitely disabled. This was with a forced,
automatic update and I definitely did not approve the change, nor was I
notified of it.

Internet sources didn't give a clear answer about what's being sent, but some
sources seem to think it's full keylogging. If that's true, Microsoft is in
for litigation and I'll be first in line to sue.

------
benjaminl
> The problem is that after installing the update, Windows no longer allows
> USB webcams to use MJPEG or H264 encoded streams and is only allowing YUY2
> encoding.

Thurrott's explanations is incorrect. What is happening is that Windows is
decoding the MJPEG or H.264 encoded streams coming from certain high end
webcams and delivering the decoded frames to the video chat application[0].

[0] -
[https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/windowsdesktop/en-U...](https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/windowsdesktop/en-
US/9d6a8704-764f-46df-a41c-8e9d84f7f0f3/mjpg-encoded-media-type-is-not-
available-for-usbuvc-webcameras-after-
windows-10-version-1607-os?forum=mediafoundationdevelopment#e2fdb4a3-211b-45d4-a525-90ffa7367bd1)

~~~
pjc50
If I've understood it, the consumer app now gets decoded video whether it
wants it or not?

------
IhateMicrosoft
I had nothing but problems with windows 10 and its privacy violations. So I
disabled all of them I could learn about and figured I would live with it.
Then patch Tuesday came around and it undid a bunch of it. Eventually Cortania
couldn't be disabled, and my bluetooth mouse stopped working. So I booted into
Fedora to see if my bluetooth hardware had failed - nope - everything worked
fine; so I just installed it and never looked back. Linux isn't perfect, but
it also isn't spyware.

------
nolok
Also, every one of those small and inexpensive yet powerful enough for every
day use and with great battery life notebook sold with windows 10 (or 8.1 and
later upgraded to 10) and 32 GB of eeprom as main storage will not get any
update anymore, because the anniversary update because it refuses to start
without 16 GB free on the main storage.

Even if you have a secondary storage (not external), it refuses to use it.
Tried looking on the net, and microsoft official answer is "nope".

It's like they really, really don't want to be on that segment, despite trying
really hard at the same time.

~~~
pjc50
Meanwhile I have one of those that I'm keeping on Win8 .. and an update has
broken auto-rotation. Very annoying.

------
vyrotek
Odd, I literally have the same Logitech C920 webcam shown in the article and
got the Win10 update the day it was released and have had no issues
whatsoever.

~~~
mark-r
It might also have to do with the software you use with it. Could be that the
problem is much smaller than the article would lead you to believe.

------
pingec
Other things that AU broke for me: \- BSODs when I plug in my kindle PW2 \- My
Nexus5 is not detected again (I have the N edition and before AU installing
the Feature Media Pack fixed this) \- It overrode the Prolific driver I had
manually installed with a newer one that breaks the fake serial adapter (easy
enough to fix, but annoying)

~~~
Sylos
So, in regards to the Kindle, this just cropped up on the frontpage:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12326201](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12326201)

Apparently, you're not the only one with that problem...

------
sickbeard
More curious why Skype team didn't run their product on the anniversary update
before they release it. Does Microsoft not do QA?

~~~
dewiz
QA is disappearing in MS, replaced by a couple of buzzwords: "cross
functional" and "DevOps". i.e. noone has a clue about what they are
accountable for, and individual teams come up with their definitions of done.

~~~
godzillabrennus
They are following Apples lead I'm afraid.

------
0xmohit
> Microsoft loves Linux.

Source:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12313179](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12313179)

So it seems that it not only Linux, but also Mac. So much that it's making
every desperate move to make users switch over to these alternates.

Well done!

------
philipov
I continue to be satisfied in my decision to use Windows 7 on my new computer.

------
mtgx
"Move fast and break things" doesn't work that well for operating systems.

~~~
mark-r
You can't call it "move fast" when the earliest they'll have a fix is sometime
in September...

~~~
0xmohit
"Fast" can be _relative_.

~~~
dozzie
You mean like, "glacier fast"?

~~~
ry_ry
Sometimes, any movement at all is a pleasant suprise.

------
pulse7
I would like to have a machine working AS-IT-IS - without any automatic
updated and changes. I would like to decide WHEN to update and what to update
(only security issues or everything). I hope I am not the only user with this
needs...

------
yarrel
Thereby accidentally improving the privacy of their users in the middle of
their current drive to destroy it.

------
yrro
I have noticed that, since installing the Anniversary Update, the light on my
webcam that indicates that it is recording me is constantly lit. Very
worrying.

It is a shame that Windows has no way for me to find out which program is
actually using the webcam so that I can terminate it. Unlike Linux of course!

~~~
shostack
The eye of Sauron is all-seeing.

------
randiantech
Isnt something like a Windows Insider program for hardware and software
companies to early test their products prior to general release? This seems
like the result of lack of basic QA, both on Microsoft and third parties.

------
tombert
I had assumed that I had done a bit too much tinkering and broke something.
I'm glad to know that for once something didn't break due to my incompetence
:D

------
awqrre
I'm not a lawyer but it sounds like a class action lawsuit would be a good
idea in this case (and a nice payday for lawyers involved).

------
wildmXranat
The update broke my install. Update finished and the computer restarted to a
blue screen. Next restart didn't work and all I had was a black screen.
Windows installation media couldnt help out since the partition was locked for
some reason.

In 6 months, I had to restore windows 10 3 times after botched updates.

------
ourmandave
I'm still not taking off the tape.

------
locusm
I have 2 AU updated PC's - both have a freezing mouse issue. I have to plug in
a second mouse to get the bluetooth mouse moving again on one. On the other
(wired) I just have to pull the plug and reinsert.

------
swagtricker
OMG - Those poor cam girl customers...

~~~
swagtricker
Wow. Tough room (like I'm the only one who thought that...).

------
curt15
So it's not just Linux that breaks things with updates...

~~~
striking
Linux breaks things with updates? Would you like to share an example with the
class?

~~~
daenney
Please don't stoop to the same level as the original comment. You can say or
believe all you want but no operating system or *nix distribution is free of
bugs and updates are known to have caused regressions on either side.

There's plenty examples out there of Linux kernel regressions that have been
introduced along the route, there's even a full paper on tracking them. Then
there's plenty of examples of things breaking on upgrades in
Debian/Ubuntu/Fedora/CentOS/Arch, systemd caused some trouble too and so on
and so forth, and not just on major boundaries.

~~~
striking
It was a joke. I'm not "stooping" to anyone's level; that's not a very nice
thing to say.

I was simply curious why the parent commenter had an axe to grind with Linux.
Everything has its bugs.

------
Karunamon
Hoo boy. If I were a professional Youtube / Twitch streamer, I'd be evaluating
my legal options right about now.

~~~
vlunkr
Except you probably wouldn't be using a Logitech webcam if that were the case

~~~
arca_vorago
Honestly, what would you be using? I have been deploying the higher end
logitechs for online meetings and training, no issues so far.

~~~
Throwaway23412
[http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/the-best-
webcams](http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/the-best-webcams)

Unless you're making an independent film or something, I would think that a
high end webcam does a great job for professional streamers and online
meetings. Even the cameras in modern laptops and smartphones do a good enough
job.

------
usualrulesapply
To those wondering if MS does QA anymore because you've seen one or two minor
issues:

how much QA should they do to verify the millions of different hardware and
software combinations out there won't have some edge case behavior?

You want them to track your privacy settings so they can be applied. Oh but
then they are tracking us!

Cause everyone here works at a company that gets their code right every time,
I'm sure

~~~
kbhn
"You want them to track your privacy settings so they can be applied. Oh but
then they are tracking us!"

This argument doesn't hold up. Privacy settings can be stored locally, which
requires no tracking. The problem arises when those privacy settings aren't
correctly applied or remembered between updates.

