
How healthy is the internet? - executesorder66
https://internethealthreport.org/2019/
======
anc84
A opinionated, non-technological, political, negative and very social justice-
ish compilation of:

\- Is it safe? The internet is where we could live, love, learn and
communicate freely. To be ourselves, we need to be able to trust the systems
that protect us.

\- How open is it? The internet is transformative because it is open: everyone
can participate and innovate. But openness is not guaranteed – it’s always
under attack.

\- Who is welcome? It’s not just about how many people have access to the
internet, but whether that access is safe and meaningful for all of us.

\- Who can succeed? Getting online isn’t enough on its own. Everyone needs
skills to read, write and participate in the digital world.

\- Who controls it? A few large players dominate much of the online world, but
the internet is healthier when it is controlled by many.

~~~
zzzcpan
Also hypocritical. Mozilla should take responsibility for its part in
centralization of the online world, being one of those players with control
and pushing even more of centralization into its browser.

~~~
omnimus
Could you elaborate on what you mean? Firefox has become ~5% browser i don't
understand what "pushing even more centralisation on Firefox" means. It looks
to me that currently more firefox users = decentralisation more than
centralisation. Do you mean the past when it was major browser?

~~~
Jonnax
It's really weird. Firefox has such a tiny marketshare now where WebKit based
browsers dictate what happens.

Also whenever there's any positive news about the browser people always like
to bring up pocket, that ARG misstep or how their CEO is a victim (Use
brave!!!)

~~~
qplex
Is it? Pretty much every Android device has a WebKit (Chrome) based browser
installed by default.

~~~
dragonwriter
Chrome is Blink, not WebKit. They are historically connected, but forked due
to major differences in vision.

------
oliwarner
There's some absurd irony here in that the report about the health of the
Internet is an omnishambles of the absolute worst practices on the modern
internet.

I could not grok the web version. I got headers and those took me to tiles and
those took me to blog posts? I was lost. In the end, I downloaded the PDF to
read this.

And that's a lie. To start with I had to tell NoScript to allow their third
party domain scripts because the content did not work without javascript.

They make some interesting points, but the standard scientific paper format
_vastly_ outperforms Web 4.0 routers and widgets for conveying it.

~~~
dredmorbius
The real being reported is complex and subjective. The presentation isn't up
to the task. That said, the "README" helps at least to frame the project:

[https://internethealthreport.org/2019/about/](https://internethealthreport.org/2019/about/)

And OMFG the 2018 report. Ow my balls!

[https://internethealthreport.org/2018/](https://internethealthreport.org/2018/)

2017 is the best of the bunch:
[https://internethealthreport.org/v01/about/](https://internethealthreport.org/v01/about/)

------
qwsxyh
I find it ironic to be holding an absolutist free speech view on a website
that automatically deletes opinions the community doesn't like.

------
ThePadawan
Are we ready for something like the Doomsday Clock [0]?

Something as simple as
[https://status.dropbox.com/](https://status.dropbox.com/), but for all of the
Internet.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_Clock](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_Clock)

~~~
GuB-42
The Doomsday Clock is a joke now. It made sense during the cold war when the
threat was clearly identified: a nuclear war between the USA and USSR. It is
now a game of finding new unrelated threats to make sure the clock doesn't
tick backwards.

We could make the same useless "clock" for the internet, advancing it every
time a website is blocked or a new backdoor is discovered. Making sure new
threat categories are added when things get better. "Oh, it looks like https
is becoming the norm, that's good, make sure to add fake news in the mix to
make it look like things are getting worse..."

By comparison, the Dropbox status page provides useful technical information.

A similar page for all of the internet would include things like the states of
root DNS servers, tier 1 networks, etc... That could be useful.

~~~
lifeisstillgood
I think it would be possible to make a clock that does not rely on judgments
as inputs (although has judgements as rules)

You mention a couple

\- Status of root DNSServers

But we could come up with more (I suspect around 50 metrics would be
comprehensive)

\- Ratio of servers reachable by http vs https \- Ratio of servers hosted in
countries with mature legal frameworks (needs work) \- Ratio of devices able
to reach "representative servers" (ie can your device in beijing reach bbc
news and WeChat and Russian newspaper)

\- Ratio of devices in areas with "24 hour" electricity supply

\- ratio of servers that do not have basic security holes plugged

\- ratio of devices that have uptodate security patches

\- current volume of DDOS attacks

\- Number of successful ransomware attacks per day

\- number of networks only reachable through N pipes (ie resilience to network
failure)

I would be interested in any thoughts / extras / improvements

~~~
notamerican
"Ratio of servers hosted in countries with mature legal frameworks (needs
work)" is one that's pretty hard to measure and has huge capacity to
misinform.

The US, UK, Russia, 5 Eyes countries, China, the EU; everyone has a stance on
whether they're safe or not.

I think it better to just measure "location diversity", and give a heatmap of
server locations (indicating replication and mirrors) so the user can decide
for themselves.

~~~
Kalium
> The US, UK, Russia, 5 Eyes countries, China, the EU; everyone has a stance
> on whether they're safe or not.

It might just be me, but I think it's reasonably clear that some of these
places have mature legal frameworks where the rule of law exists (US, UK, EU)
and some generally do not (Russia, China, Venezuela). But perhaps I'm mistaken
and simply do not understand what a mature legal system is.

~~~
jmichaelhudson
>mature legal frameworks where the rule of law exists (US-

whaaaaaa

How is 'recording everything, decrypting everything, targeting persons of
interest without warrant or record, extensive networks of informants and
agents in all branches of politics, art, and business while bombing people
based on their cell phone ping location globally without oversight or any
attempt at legal justification'

The United States is 0 privacy, 0 honesty about the actual laws in place,
'fusion centers' completely removing any sane separation of national and
regional power or separation of police from military, and 50 TLA's arguing
over how best to harass political activists or run criminal gangs themselves.
And an entire other spy agency of a different country on the other side of the
world allowed to do basically whatever they want in our borders and harvest
every ounce of the data of our lives.

That's not a 'mature framework', that is reverting 'civilization' to before
the magna carta, much less the geneva conventions.

And since in no case where it was revealed how the government is breaking its
own laws and using technology to make an illegal monstrosity out of the
internet has the government ever meaningfully been held to account of actually
changed, behold what rules you.

Stop pretending something is worth your trust just because there are flags and
rotundas and people in suits on the news 24 hours a day and a cultish military
junta hasn't completely taken completely over yet, visibly. edit: ...in the
united states.

~~~
Kalium
I knew this kind of objection was coming. It was very predictable. Your
objection to the massive infringement of _basic human rights_ is morally and
ethically completely and absolutely correct in every single possible way.

It's also, for the moment and strictly for the purposes of this particular
conversation at hand, irrelevant.

Though I understand if some might choose to believe otherwise for political
reasons. The discussion at hand is about overarching legal systems, their
general reliability, and how much bearing laws have on what actually happens.

Similarly, one could probably point at some by-the-book handling of a parking
ticket in China as proof that it is a nation with rule of law. It would be
similarly possessed of opportunity to come into greater alignment with
relevance.

~~~
jmichaelhudson
I knew someone was going to say I was off topic, what a coincicence.

If human rights are not relevant to the article and thread, then the article
and thread are for robots and someone should clearly post that.

If the article does not discuss rights, which to me appear to have completely
disappeared and any semblence of them we only have is due to a lot of this
generation of TLA officeres not being total monsters

Now we just have to hope Kushner doesn't use his global admin rights to do
anything mean. /s

That is the state of the internet, this silent well-born manchild who has
chummed with madmen since he was a child has clearance and hooks into
everything the nsa scoops up, which is nearly the entire internet, and the
entire pollyanna internet.

Is that in TFA?

Then why are they writing about 1995?

------
z92
By health of the Internet, the numbers that I look for is how "stressed" is it
when it comes to resource management. Like bandwidth or dns.

And how much "free" is it, still?

~~~
pmlnr
free as in beer, free as in freedom (libre), free as in DRM free, free as in
freemium... ?

~~~
z92
Free as in speech. What are permitted and what not. How much of the net is
banned or blocked in which regions of the world.

DRM isn't a problem as long as non-DRM isn't forcefully eliminated by it.

~~~
inetknght
DRM and non-DRM are effectively polar opposites of each other.

DRM is a problem for free speech.

~~~
rocqua
DRM is more about free listening than free speech.

The existence of DRM does not limit your speech. It does limit what speech you
can consume but the author (presumably) wants to be limited in their speech.

------
jaabe
I’m amazed that it’s 2019, and we still haven’t figured out a good way to
share interesting content.

The portals worked for a while, then came google and Facebook, and now we have
nothing. I mean, if HN stopped how would you find anything interesting on the
internet?

~~~
Theodores
Another thing that has failed: journalists. They get sent press releases and
do the filtering. Something like 80% of 'news' is PR. But they don't want you
leaving their news website. That would be bad for revenue, allegedly.

Imagine a 'newsworthy' story about a budgerigar that can dance to jazz music.
The source could be on a website that has all kinds of fascinating stuff about
budgerigars. But this you would never know, perhaps you might get a link to
the original tweet but that would be it, no link to the website that gave rise
to the one thing that went 'viral'.

------
dredmorbius
As unclear and uncommunicative as the 2019 report is, it's at least not the
2018 version:
[https://internethealthreport.org/2018/](https://internethealthreport.org/2018/)

I've sugested to Mozilla that unclear labels, vague stock photos, and acres of
whitespace are a poor choice of media for conveying a complex, and yes, truly
important, story.

But at least it's not animated floating balls.

The page wants more clear relevant text.

The first iteration remains the best to date:

[https://internethealthreport.org/v01/about/](https://internethealthreport.org/v01/about/)

------
paul7986
Don’t see how much of the Internet is fake?

If over 60 percent and increasing that’s very detrimental to the Internet as
we know it today.

------
stelfer
Wake me up when it's dead and we can start working on what comes next.

------
funkythingsss
I fundamentally disagree with Mozillas notion of "openness". The internet
always was open to LGBTQI+ people. The internet does not discriminate. Get an
account named X. Done.

Problems only arise when professional activists try to change existing
communities. E.g. the new linux kernel code of conduct and it's, let's say
"questionable", author.

~~~
DanBC
> The internet does not discriminate. Get an account named X.

We don't discriminate against you, but you have to hide every aspect of who
you are otherwise we're going to threaten to rape you to death.

~~~
otabdeveloper1
Non-discrimination and acceptance isn't the same thing. You can't force people
to like you, and you shouldn't.

~~~
Ensorceled
Do you really believe explicit, credible death and/or rape threats for being a
woman with opinions on Marvel movies or games or being LGBQ are examples of a
non-discriminatory environment?

~~~
rossenberg79
A _true_ non-discriminatory environment is also an environment of no mercy.
_All_ opinions are permitted, even ones you will find incredibly vile and
threatening.

So think carefully when you ask for this kind of environment. I think what
some people are actually asking for when they say "non-discriminatory" is an
environment where people who do not accept minority members or opinions are
not welcomed.

~~~
Ensorceled
Ejecting people for making rape and death threats to other members of the
community is not the same as ejecting members of the community for being PoC,
LGBTQ, Nazis or Republicans.

These are not the same thing.

~~~
Nasrudith
Yeah but it is a "anything that can be done to a rat can be done to a human"
thing. It says nothing of worthiness and everything about possibilities
because worthiness is ultimately a matter of opinion.

It is like asking for bullets which only hurt guilty people whom it would be
necessary to shoot.

------
jmichaelhudson
The internet is not healthy.

edit: _____self censoring myself even I 'm afraid to say that here_ __ __ __

someone is trying to erase the entire history of the events of Tianmnen Square
involving Tank Man.

The United States, defending freedom and multicultuarlism supposedly, is
recording basically all internet traffic and sharing it with the most racist
country in the world while they create hordes of refugees due to their never-
allowed-to-be-spoken plans for aggressive expansion in violation of the very
United Nations that created them.

Processors will be made in this country and shipped all over the world.
Routers, microwaves, all phones, plagued with endemic backdoors. Auditing
capacity is overwhelmed and results seldom in any changes, see iratemonk
seagate events.

Social media has basically given TPTB the easy capability to harass and
interfere with all of the next generation of anything, while placing their
agents in 'key positions' all over the place.

It's a bad situation, the real internet is not the public one anymore. Power
exists, and the physical structure of power is, as always, hard at work trying
to regulate the ideological structures.

Make us forget Tiananmen, and who knows what else we'll forget.

Wasn't there something that happened in Las Vegas a few monthyears ago?
hmmmmmmmmm

The internet is being used, successfully, to attack the human mind on a global
scale and the people with the most money are doing it while a bunch of really
bright people think they are just solving math problems and making good money.

The situation is bad, I don't need algorighms and network maps to tell me
that. The internet has lost China and Russia, and is running away from The
United States of America.

------
sbwmk
[https://internethealthreport.org/2019/wp-
content/uploads/sit...](https://internethealthreport.org/2019/wp-
content/uploads/sites/7/2019/03/Liz-Fong-Jones--1600x1080.jpg)

------
microcolonel
I yearn for a day when Mozilla approached tractable problems with practical
solutions, like improving their web browser, or integrating new fancy
technology like RSS, or making people feel welcome the old fashioned way on
the bug tracker and the IRC.

It's no wonder that Brendan Eich's new browser is Chromium based. ;- )

