

KDE 4.1 delivers the next-gen desktop experience - azharcs
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080729-kde-4-1-delivers-a-next-gen-desktop-linux-experience.html

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elai
KDE 4.1 is pretty awesome, but there's just some nagging lack of refinements
that bug me at parts. I've been spoiled by apple, even though i don't that
they're that amazing interface looks wise.

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jrockway
I don't think OS X is any more polished than anything else. It looks polished
because Apple users constantly tell themselves that it is perfect. When you
tell yourself something all the time, it's easy to believe it's a fact.

But anyway, I gave up the whole desktop thing a year or so ago. Xmonad is the
way to go. No stupidity to get in the way of work.

~~~
unalone
Wrong, wrong, wrong, WRONG. I think a lot of people who comment like this make
such comments because they've never used Macs for any real period of time.

Three off the top of my head: the contrast of dark grey for focused apps to
light grey for unfocused ones means that you can see what's focused instantly.
This is useful because Apple encourages opening multiple things at once: the
green button for maximize sizes most apps so they fit whatever's being
displayed and nothing more.

There's no unused pixel. KDE 4.1 shown here has large blocks of matter at the
edges of their windows. OS X does not. Likewise, that little grey button on
the top right, the one that minimizes bars that you don't need, allows for
much more efficient screen economy. No, you don't care, because you like
looking down your lengthy xmonad nose at us common serfs, but a lot of us LIKE
doing a lot of different things with our computer, and Apple doesn't
compromise: we get an efficient system AND one that, you know, does stuff.

Not to reel off Apple's most recent ads, but Stacks mean you can access a lot
of information without cluttering your screen, and you can still keep it all
organized. Making Downloads into a stack means that suddenly your desktop is
blank except for things you drag off from other apps and screenshots you take.
It compartmentizes your computer into Downloads, which are things that take a
little while to get, Desktop, which are things that you grab quickly, and
Documents, where things are organized.

Three given as impulse. I could literally spend hours going into fine detail
about the small little bits of polish that Apple has applied to their
operating system. You can say a lot about OS X. You could argue that it's not
"efficient," though by some definitions of efficiency it outstrips Linux and
Windows by far. But you can not argue for its not being polished. Apple is the
industry MASTER of user interface, they have perfected the art of polish, and
if you say otherwise you are a stupid, ignorant fuck.

I say that with all due respect; I'm sure I'm overthinking your little
flippant remark. I upvoted you because your comment leads to a venus of
discussion - but you're about as wrong as a nerd arguing operating system on a
Y Combinator site could possibly get.

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ars
Are we using the same OS? I find the color difference between focused and not
focused very hard to see. I hate that the maximize, etc buttons are just
colors with no symbols, I can never remember what each one does.

The finder folder windows have tons of unused space that should be filled with
buttons for useful actions. I recently did arrange by name on the desktop
instead of the folder because I had to go to the menu bar on top and didn't
realize the folder was no longer active, so it did the desktop instead.

The folder itself should have buttons that do these things, so I can go
directly to what I want. And to make it worse there is no undo arrange!

The mac desktop is not polished - it's sparse. Apple fixes usability and
polish by removing functionality.

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unalone
How long have you been using the OS? After about a week using it I'd had no
problems with contrast OR with the buttons up top.

The finder windows, depending on customization, usually show exactly what you
need. You don't need to go to the menu bar up top. There are icons in the bar
that sort it automatically. As for undo arrange: considering arrange is
realigning a view, the idea is that it's not an action per se. So, again, hate
to be disrespectful, but I've never come across that stuff myself.

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pavelludiq
I just upgraded. Its pretty cool. I've been a KDE fan since i started using
Linux and KDE 3.5 was really cool, but this is even better.

~~~
tx
How do Gnome Apps look like on KDE 4.x? I really dig their improvements, but
nearly all applications I use are GTK-based [Firefox, gVim, SqlBrowser]. Do
they get the same window look/feel? Font settings? How well are they
integrated into KDE desktop overall?

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jrockway
_How well are they integrated into KDE desktop overall?_

Not well. It's sort of like using X11 apps on OS X. Alone, they look great.
When inside OS X, they look terrible. Gnome is like that on KDE.

~~~
tx
So... what's the point of KDE then? I don't think I've ever seen KDE ports of
vim or emacs (only GTK), and FireFox is also GTK... Then there is Gimp, how
can you do without it...

The only KDE app that is worth using compared to GTK counterparts that comes
to mind is probably Amarok [and I still prefer Rythmobx].

Am I missing something here?

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jrockway
emacs and vim are so different from "desktop apps" that you won't notice the
difference.

For everything else, most people use the KDE version of whatever app they are
looking for. I haven't used any applications other than emacs, urxvt, firefox,
and amarok for years, so I can't really tell you what those are.

Edit: actually, I can tell you some things. There are themes that make Firefox
look like a KDE app, and of course there is Konqueror (I tried 4.0 for a
while, it was much nicer than FF2.) There is also a GIMP equivalent for KDE,
but the name escapes me. My advice is to install a KDE 4.1 version of Kubuntu,
and click stuff in the menus.

~~~
tx
_emacs and vim are so different from "desktop apps" that you won't notice the
difference._

Well... gVim is pretty nicely integrated into Gnome, picks up
theme/colors/icons, etc. I like it a lot.

Thank you for replying BTW: I will definitely install 4.1 myself. If FF and
Gimp experience won't suffer, I may actually consider switching.

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ars
I wonder if debian will unfreeze in order to get this in. I really hope so. I
even think it's worth delaying the release for a month in order to do so.

