
Tesla sues ex-employee for hacking, theft, and leaking to the press - salmonellaeater
https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/20/17484030/tesla-sues-employee-hacking-theft-leaking
======
rory096
Lawsuit is available here: DocumentCloud
[https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4529155-Gov-
Uscourts...](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4529155-Gov-Uscourts-
Nvd-131251-1-0-2.html) or Scribd
[https://www.scribd.com/document/382194076/Tesla-
lawsuit](https://www.scribd.com/document/382194076/Tesla-lawsuit)

(17 line summary is on page 2)

It's based substantially on the "scrap material" leak to Business Insider
published June 4: [http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-scrap-waste-
hig...](http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-scrap-waste-high-
gigafactory-2018-5)

~~~
hoorayimhelping
Can't copy/paste but that lawsuit says that he admitted to writing software
that stole information and for trying to hire others to do the same when
confronted about it with evidence.

As a layman, that seems pretty damming to me, but who knows, it may not mean
anything. I wonder if he had an opportunity to speak with a lawyer before
admitting that he did that.

~~~
jbeckham
Being that this is a civil suit, he has no right to counsel so anything he
said can be used against him. Admitting anything was a dumb if he was planning
on defending against a lawsuit.

~~~
zepto
He does have a right to a counsel in a civil suit, just not a court appointed
one.

~~~
dpark
You generally don't have a right to a court-appointed counsel in a criminal
case, either. That only applies if you cannot afford one.

Although the parent was referring to the fact that you have a right to have an
attorney present for any police questioning. But again, that does not apply
here, since the police presumably weren't the ones doing the questioning.

~~~
glibgil
Yep and when confronted by Tesla he had the opportunity to say, "let's talk
about this later"

------
unit91
From the court filing:

> Beyond the misconduct to which Tripp admitted, he also wrote computer code
> to periodically export Tesla’s data off its network and into the hands of
> third parties. His hacking software was operating on three separate computer
> systems of other individuals at Tesla so that the data would be exported
> even after he left the company and so that those individuals would be
> falsely implicated as guilty parties.

Good grief, that's nasty.

[https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4529155/Gov-
Uscou...](https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4529155/Gov-Uscourts-
Nvd-131251-1-0-2.pdf)

~~~
sverige
It reminds me of the old "IT employee gets revenge" stories that were so
popular ten or twenty years ago.

~~~
bpd1069
He wasn't even there a year. Hired, not promoted, hack system, leak to the
press, exfiltrate data (automated and distributed).

Doesn't look like your typical anything to me.

~~~
kamaal
>>He wasn't even there a year.

How do you expect to join a company and get promoted within an year?

This feels like an unfair expectation to even begin with.

~~~
therealdrag0
Definitely possible if you start low and have potential. I've gotten promoted
or raises every 6-9 mo for the last 4 years (since starting my first job).
"Your young with little experience..." >>> "Oh wow you're actually good at
things! Have a promotion."

------
catherinezng
Maybe another perspective is that Tripp is a whistleblower. See:

"But Tripp told CNN he was fired within the last week and sued by Tesla
because he was trying to warn investors and the public about problems at the
electric carmaker. He said that he discovered that 1,100 damaged battery
modules were installed in Model 3 cars that are on the road today. He said
that he was also concerned about excessive scrap that is being stored in a
dangerous manner on Tesla's property in Nevada that will be expensive to
safely dispose of in the future. And he claims that Tesla inflated the number
of Model 3's it made when it said it had built 2,020 of the cars in the seven
days prior to a much anticipated April 3 report. Tripp said the actual number
is closer to 1,900."

[http://money.cnn.com/2018/06/20/technology/tesla-sues-
employ...](http://money.cnn.com/2018/06/20/technology/tesla-sues-
employee/index.html)

~~~
masonic

      he was trying to warn investors
    

Whistleblowers don't warn _investors_ , they contact _regulators_.

------
Someone1234
So has law enforcement been contacted or not? If what Tesla claims he did
(data theft, sabotage) were true, that's definitely violating federal law. If
they choose not to ask for e.g. FBI assistance, I'd be curious to know their
reasoning.

~~~
hermitdev
Having worked at a hedge fund that suffered a data theft, I'd expect the
criminal charges, if any, to come several months from now. It takes time for
the police to build their case, collect evidence, interview possible witnesses
or suspects, etc. All that happens before formal charges are filed. A lawsuit
can be filed immediately.

~~~
Someone1234
The question was if law enforcement had been contacted, not if criminal
charges would be brought by them if they had.

~~~
throwaway427
I'm not sure random HN commenters have the answer you are looking for here...

~~~
bjl
Well, as of yesterday at least, the PD said on Twitter that no reports had
been made.

~~~
ksherlock
Since it happened in Nevada, the Fremont PD wouldn't be involved.

------
nodesocket
It's funny the HN post and comments on Monday were critical of Elon, saying
he's overacting, being "anti-ceo" and fear mongering.

It certainly seems like he was rightfully critical and agressive on Monday now
that all the facts have come out.

~~~
CPLX
Most people do not consider one side of a lawsuit to be "all the facts"

------
Animats
This is a desperation move by Musk. Nothing in the complaint alleges
interference with Tesla production. Just that the ex-employee leaked some data
on Tesla's internal screwups. Yet Musk claimed this was an excuse for Tesla
missing their 5000 units/week goal yet again. (Actual production is about 1500
units/week right now.[1])

Also, this is someone at the battery factory in Nevada, not the auto plant in
Fremont. So this is totally unrelated to the auto plant problems.

Tesla will have a hard time showing actual losses from this.

[1] [https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-
tracker/](https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-tracker/)

~~~
tomp
> Yet Musk claimed this was an excuse for Tesla missing their 5000 units/week
> goal yet again.

Citation?

~~~
gamblor956
The citation was provided...Bloomberg has been estimated Tesla production
based on VIN numbers, etc.

It's a rough estimate that isn't really accurate on a daily or weekly scale
but tends to be accurate at the monthly level.

At any rate, Tesla is purportedly redirecting finished cars to non-US buyers
or is holding back finished cars to avoid triggering the phase-out of EV-
related tax rebates once they hit the 200k car milestone.

~~~
martythemaniak
> Yet Musk claimed this was an excuse for Tesla missing their 5000 units/week
> goal yet again

And where in your Bloomberg link does it say anything of the sort?

------
dekrg
Data theft is an pretty interesting way to frame giving information to the
media.

~~~
function_seven
If we take the complaint at face value, it seems like a straightforward
description. Tripp is alleged to have installed software on other employees’
computers to extract the information.

Also, giving information to the media isn’t necessarily an honest act of
whistleblowing. Depends on what you’re exposing and if it’s accurate in the
first place.

~~~
Someone1234
If he genuinely believes what he is saying is true (i.e. potentially dangerous
batteries in Model 3's) then I'd say that is absolutely an honest act of
whistleblowing.

But that's the rub, does he believe that or not, or was it as Tesla contends a
lie to hurt an employer that passed him over for promotion? The court case is
definitely one to watch, particularly if he can provide evidence of his
claims.

~~~
rory096
As I understand it, genuine protected whistleblowing would require a report to
the appropriate regulatory body. Disclosing a substantial amount of
proprietary non-safety-related information would also tend to undermine the
case for protection.

------
spiderPig
Seems a little far fetched for a process technician to make “direct code
changes to operating system code” though

~~~
fragsworth
A saboteur would be more sophisticated than a real process technician. Maybe
Tesla's internal security isn't that great?

~~~
taf2
Inside jobs are pretty hard to defend against

~~~
bastawhiz
Exactly. I think you'd be hard pressed to find many companies that employ
systems sophisticated enough to catch internal sabotage without immense
amounts of false positives.

"What the hell do you think you're doing??" "I just wanted to play DOTA"

~~~
Ftuuky
Correct. I accidentally triggered an internal "hacking-prevention" system at
the investment bank where I work by simply installing Anaconda. Having a cyber
security agent coming to my desk and demanding I log off my machine
immediately was really scary, especially considering it was my first week
there.

------
sunstone
It would be interesting to know if this employee was also shorting Tesla stock
at the same time he was leaking these allegations.

~~~
compcoffee
> _It would be interesting to know if this employee was also shorting Tesla
> stock at the same time he was leaking these allegations._

I'm skeptical that some individual blue-collar worker would risk his financial
well-being and possibly freedom to make a few thousand dollars from _possibly_
causing financial harm to Tesla and causing the stock to drop some. Seems like
a stretch to me. If the suit is as alleged (passing _false_ information to
journalists) he's an attention seeking low-life.

What is with the obsession with "shorts"? I've never seen so much over-
reaction to short selling in my life.

~~~
durkie
Tesla is the stock with the highest amount of short interest at the moment.

~~~
vkou
That's because unlike a zero-revenue startup, whose potential revenue once
they start monetization may be trillions of dollars, the potential revenue
trajectory of Tesla is somewhat bounded.

Yet, their stock is valued like one of those startups.

~~~
Diederich
> somewhat bounded

Can you expand on that? In theory, TSLA could become the next Toyota or GM. I
guess that technically fits under 'somewhat'.

~~~
mcguire

               Market Cap  Revenue  Price/Sales
        Toyota $201B       $266B    0.76
        VLKAY    91B        269B    0.34
        Tesla    61B         12B    4.93
        GM       60B        144B    0.41
        Honda    56B        139B    0.40
        Ford     47B        160B    0.30
    

Tesla is priced like it _already is_ Toyota or GM.

~~~
greenyoda
Also, once the electric car market becomes big enough for the major
manufacturers to care about, Tesla will be competing with Toyota, GM, etc. for
market share. When people can buy electric vehicles from Toyota or Honda,
which have an established reputation for reliability and have dealerships
(with repair facilities) everywhere, making sales might get much harder for
Tesla. Being able to succeed in a market driven by enthusiastic early adopters
does not guarantee being able to succeed in an mature market.

~~~
madamelic
>Being able to succeed in a market driven by enthusiastic early adopters does
not guarantee being able to succeed in an mature market.

Which do I want more:

The sleek, sexy, self-driving electric sports car

An ugly, unappealing shaped car that people make fun of.

Hmmmmm...

~~~
kmm
And why is not everybody driving around in a Lamborghini or an Audi R8 right
now? Tesla cars aren't more affordable

~~~
rconti
2018 Lamborghini Huracan Base Price: $199,800

2018 Audi R8 Base Price: $138,700

2018 Tesla Model 3LR Base Price: $49,000

~~~
brisance
The difference is that you can actually go to a dealer and buy those other
cars right off the lot if you so desire. Can't do that for a Model 3.

~~~
rconti
Not only is that not relevant to the original statement, it's almost certainly
not true. And getting a base car at base car price is likely almost
impossible.

The Audi and Lambo aren't in as high of demand as say, a Ferrari 488 (or
whatever the latest mid-engined model is, I've lost track), but you can't
actually buy a 488 if you don't already have a history of Ferrari ownership.
So, while I doubt Audi and Lambo have the same restrictions on who they
'allow' to buy their car, good luck buying one off the lot or in any
reasonable timeframe.

------
trumped
Isn't Tesla supposed to be really open? ie: "All Our Patent Are Belong To You
| Tesla" *1

1\. [https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-
you](https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you)

------
AdamM12
Seems like there will be a CFAA charge right around the corner

------
mlindner
Glad to hear they're suing him. The interesting question is if he was hired by
some outside agency to join Tesla to do this. He was only at the company for
3-4 months before "complaining of not getting a raise". That's a very short
period of time. My bet is that is that's a lie to hide the real reason.
Hopefully they get access to his call history to see what companies he
communicated with.

Also shame on the author for Editorializing the title. The true article title
is "Tesla sues ex-employee for hacking, theft, and leaking to the press"

~~~
gwern
The lawsuit doesn't mention raises, it says that he was angry over,
specifically, being transferred to another job after clashing with
coworkers/managers.

~~~
mlindner
Transferred instead of being promoted, to be precise.

------
boardguy
Saboteur, whistleblower, fraudster... it’s a thin line

~~~
retbull
Saboteur's break things, whistleblowers expose illegal or immoral behavior,
fraudsters commit fraud. What exactly is thin about those lines?

~~~
adrr
Leaking information about the inefficiency of Tesla's production line could be
construed as whistleblowing. Tesla is a public company and shareholders have
right to know of issues that can have an impact on the viability of the
company.

~~~
zamalek
Tesla _claims_ that some of the information is false (specifically the bit
about punctured cells being installed). Whether this is true or not, the
manner in which the disclosure occurred doesn't seem to be in the spirit of
remedying the situation. It was to harm the company.

Whistleblowing is not about doing harm, it is about preventing it.

Say you dated someone at work and it didn't work out. Say you then went on a
tirade around the office indicating exactly what their problems were (true or
not), even to people who have no interest in dating that person. More
accurately, you'd also pass off any and all benign details (because the
installed software was indiscriminately passing off information). Would that
be whistleblowing or would that be slander? Say that a good friend indicated
that they were interested and you warned them away in private - completely
different story.

~~~
adrr
Whistleblowing is ultimately harming the company and usually done by people
trying to sabotage the company. Doesn't mean stuff leak isn't the truth. This
guy leaked official documents to Business Insider that related to series 3
production and cost to produce batteries. Looking at the Tesla's accelerating
cash burn(1.1 billion last quarter), he was being at least partially truthful
that production costs are rising.

~~~
zamalek
Whistleblowing is about protecting public interest: in some cases the public
is investors, yes. Whistleblowing is not disclosing information carte blanche.
That is espionage.

If Tesla were using punctured cells (still up in the air, given that the
defendant admitted malice), that would be valid reason to leak. If Tesla are
missing targets, that is a reason to leak.

However, if those two hypothetical facts form part of a larger corpus of trade
secrets and other confidential information your intent is not to be a
whistleblower. You are not whistleblowing. You are harming.

Yet another analogy to drive the point home. The most your HN profile has is
your location. Clearly you are using a pseudonym. Let's say that maybe _you_
run a darknet site trading in various nefarious activities. If I were to dox
_you,_ that association would surely be part of the corpus. However, would
that be whistleblowing or doxxing? Would my intent be anything else other than
malicious? Furthermore, maybe my research, keylogger or what-have-you might
miss that detail: meaning that I failed to disclose the information that would
cause public concern over those activities. I'm just sharing your secrets.
Good, bad, it doesn't matter.

Whistleblowing is altruistic.

This guy wanted to do harm and the line is, in a rare occurrence, clear as the
blue sky. If Tesla is found to be falling short according to the information
he disclosed, they should answer for it. In the US they may not: fruit of the
forbidden tree. This means that Tesla may get off the hook because of the
carte blanche disclosure - would any good come from this? _However,_ he should
absolutely pay for violating the trust of his employer merely because he got
passed up for a promotion. It is a negative sum situation. Whistleblowing is
zero-sum (at least in today's world).

Whistleblowers are heroes. There is, by even the most microscopic margin, not
a hero here. Don't sour the sacrifices of people who took risks for the
humanity, for a single person seeking selfish vengeance.

------
jiveturkey
Cue Dr Evil ... one _million_ dollars!!

But srsly, one million? That shows that there was no demonstrable loss to
Tesla, that this suit is purely punitive on a personal level.

~~~
Waterluvian
How would you even quantify damages of that kind?

Should it be zero if they don't know how much? Or a billion?

------
gamblor956
Scary to learn that Tesla's problems are so bad that they're pinning all their
execution issues on a single employee who wasn't even around for most of them.

Edit: As someone else wondered...why does this guy even have the access to the
systems necessary to have allegedly carry out these purported acts of
sabotage? Is Tesla's security that lax? Why wasn't this detected immediately?
What else does this say about their inability to control their own internal
processes?

Edit 2: Deleted first paragraph. Turns out that Musk accused this employee of
sabotage predating the employee's employment but Tesla isn't suing him for it.

~~~
gwern
> Curiously, Tesla is suing this employee for many issues that arose or relate
> to the time before he was hired.

No, it's not. Can you point to the line in the lawsuit where they make any
claim of that sort? The accusations seem very specific to his own actions.

