

Ask HN: which jobs are accessible to very introverted devs? - antninja

Whenever I get a job interview as a junior web developer, I am told that my technical competence is undeniable but I&#x27;m way too introverted to be hired, especially in web agencies.<p>Are there some other programming jobs in which being extroverted isn&#x27;t a requirement? Or I should keep searching for the right company? I don&#x27;t think I can change my personality.
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antitrust
> I am told that my technical competence is undeniable but I'm way too
> introverted to be hired

My sympathy, because I can imagine this must be puzzling.

From experience, my analysis tree would go like this:

1\. Is this a euphemism or excuse? Euphemisms can be used to cover up other
meanings like "you look like a serial killer" or "bathe more." You might want
to pursue those angles. Excuses can cover things like you wanting too much
money, or being too strong in your opinions or knowledge. (Remember, the
machine wants cogs, not governors.)

2\. If you think it's actually what they mean, I'd look at the word as they're
going to use it, which means "socially withdrawn" and not its actual meaning.
Then I'd check these:

(a) Does my appearance scream "socialization difficulty"? Did I wear a monk's
habit to the job interview, or talk about 1980s classic videogames too much?

(b) Does my behavior scream "socialization difficulty"? If so, I'd approach
this as you would any other technical problem. Find some "normals" to observe
and pretend you're James Bond, super spy, and imitate them. You must
infiltrate the hive and shut off the reactor.

3\. If none of the above are checked: something else is making them nervous.
Talk to a recruiter, psychologist or other and have them observe you. Also,
make sure no parts of your life or resume scream "serial killer" or "probably
molests goats."

4\. If that's not the case, think about where you're applying. The machine
loves cogs -- I said that already -- but sometimes, silly people in charge of
silly companies want cheerful happy cheerleader types who will socialize a
lot, get really excited over foosball, etc. They like these because they're
tractable and easily manipulated. These silly companies tend to be tech
sweatshops that assess you based on the amount of code you grind, not how good
it is. Do you want to work there anyway? If you do, you're going to have to
play Halloween dress-up and imitate what they want.

I will never support bias against introverted people just so that there can be
the illusion (sorry, I mean "appearance") of a happy enthusiastic go-get-'em
workplace. That's just silly. But if your appearance or behavior makes other
people nervous, and they're not nitwits, you might consider adopting a little
bit of a charade so you can work with these people.

~~~
antninja
I look good but I speak too softly and I don't know how to improvise in
conversations. So for a one-to-one technical conversation I have no problem
but for casual chats within a group, I just listen and get nervous if the
attention is on me. It's due to a lack of experience in talking (and being
talked to) combined to perfectionism. The problem is that I need a job soon,
not after several years of trying to gain this experience.

I chose to learn programming thinking the job would just be me and a computer,
referring to one boss, but there seems to be more meetings and customer
interactions than I hoped. Other commenters said that more quiet programming
jobs exist so I'll keep sending my resume to companies who build their own
softwares instead of agencies. I'm just a bit despaired that no one wants to
let me work.

In a more long-term way, I'm trying to create my own business (disrupt
Facebook!). If I can't be the employee, I must become the employer.

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
A bit of friendly advice.

Being introverted is one thing, being socially awkward and getting nervous
when people talking to you can be a hindrance. If you expect to create your
own business, the most important aspect will be customer interaction; you will
need to get past these issues in order to be successful.

------
meric
Introversion != Lack of social skills.

Keep talking and meeting new people, get better at socializing. Being
introverted just means you _prefer_ not to have to socialize some (or most) of
the time, it doesn't mean you have to be bad at talking to people.

Being able to socialize is a skill, not a personality. How much you like to do
it is what determines if you're extroverted or introverted.

~~~
codenut
I think you got it wrong. Introversion is not lacking of social skill. I am an
introvert but I can communicate or socialize to strangers instantly if needed.
But I always have the need to spend time with myself. Check this out.

[http://www.quora.com/Introverts-and-Introversion-2/What-
does...](http://www.quora.com/Introverts-and-Introversion-2/What-does-it-feel-
like-to-be-an-introvert)

------
angdis
Many people are introverted and do just fine in all kinds of jobs. "Introvert"
is merely an orientation of personality that a large fraction (~50%) of the
population has. Most likely the interviewer said you were "too introverted" as
a polite way to say that something _else_ like demeanor or communication skill
was lacking.

I don't know what your situation is, but you probably won't have success
trying to find a job that fits your personality like a glove. There are too
many factors and anyway the environment could change instantly the minute
another new hire walks in.

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mathattack
Why focus on agencies which put a premium on extroversion?

Most technical companies worth their salt are happy to have introverted
developers doing the hard coding behind the scenes. In general you'll be
better off at a software firm that markets to consumers, since there is less
direct client interaction. (It's not that you won't be good at client
interaction, it's that you have to convince someone)

Because of this, a place like Google or Facebook would be better than SAP or
Oracle.

~~~
antninja
Most of the job offers in Paris seem to come from agencies (for junior
developers). I used to avoid sending resumes to agencies but now I'm trying to
be less selective.

~~~
mathattack
How's your math? A disproportionate amount of financial software comes out of
Paris. Usually the math requirements for these jobs are pretty high. (Hence
they like hiring French mathematicians)

Many firms like Google and Facebook are setting up in Paris too to take
advantage of the tech talent.

------
scotty79
Just pretend to be extrovert. Smile and look at people when they talk as if
what they are saying was fantastic. Imagine the people you meet are your
friends. Those of your friends that prefer to talk than to listen to you. It's
all bit tiresome for introvert but most jobs are.

When they hire you as long as you do what you are told and respond when
somebody asks you about something and listen to people, no one will know that
you are introvert.

~~~
mikevm
By pretending to be something you aren't you risk of trying too hard and
looking even creepier.

~~~
scotty79
Not really. People are blunt, uninterested, and horrible at reading other
people. "She killed herself? She was always such a cheerful person!"

Huge part of your self-image is not shared by other people.

You got a point with this "trying too hard" thing. Don't do that. Don't follow
people when they don't want you, just react positively when they approach you.
Lots of people are looking for listeners. Just listen to them. They will like
you. And some other people will like you because those people like you.

------
ig1
You probably can become less introverted with practice if it's something you
want, it's hard but not impossible.

How introverted are you ? - web agencies and the like which require client
interaction will tend to require more extroverted developers but if you're at
a large company working on internal project it tends to be much less of an
issue.

~~~
johnward
If you are introverted there is a good chance you won't want to deal with
clients anyway. I know it is the most stressful and draining part of my days.
I dread the next work day when I get home.

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helen842000
Next time you interview address this head on. The jobs that are accessible are
the jobs that you want to do.

Interviewers are mis-judging you and that's not fair. When they get to the
section that says "how would your friends/colleagues describe you" use it as
an example that puts their mind at rest.

Say "oh sure, people that don't know me well may think I'm introverted,
however as they get to know me they'll see that I'm just naturally a good
listener. That's the role I take in a group setting and I enjoy it. It's quite
a rare skill, usually people are fighting to be heard. My friends would
describe me as a deep thinker and while I maybe shy in a new environment, it
only takes a little while for me to integrate and feel at home in a new team.
I have deep interests in X & Y and these complement my skills in technology"

Hiring managers know people are nervous at interview stage, check the 'team
player' box by mentioning clubs, friends or other hobbies.

If anyone here wants interview practice, improvised discussion, improved
speaking register, removing the perception of introversion, I'd be happy to
jump on a Skype call/chat to help. We can chat about web stuff, projects and
hopefully in exchange I can fill in some gaps on my technical knowledge while
we talk.

I know exactly what it's like. After I finished my CS degree I worked for a
short while as an I.T recruiter to learn the industry from the other side and
pick what field I should go into. I was on the hiring side of the table and I
had to help people get past the nerves so they would do their best. It drained
me to be in a job that involved talking all day but long term it really
improved how I express myself and how I respond during interviews.

If anyone wants to chat my email is my username at gmail dot com.

------
zng
I'm quite the introverted person as well, but I keep reminding myself to
develop that part.

I don't know you at all, but I bet it will be fine... Just keep trying and see
how you can improve and represent yourself! :)

------
jaz
I work at a medium sized web agency (~60 employees) as a developer and
consider myself introverted. For the first year I worked in a client facing
role, which exhausted me - long hours, a lot of social interaction. It wore me
down almost to the point of burnout. I then made a lateral move to a non
client facing team which greatly improved my quality of life here. So there
may be hope for you at a larger company that has non client facing roles - but
you may need to work yourself up the ladder to get into them.

You can't change your underlying personality, but you can work on being more
social. It's definitely not easy (at least not for me) - when in social
situations during the workday, my internal monologue is usually saying "I'd
rather be coding." It takes time and practice, but it's achievable. I've been
working at being more social and have seen some success.

------
greenyoda
This isn't directly related to your question about jobs, but Susan Cain (an
introvert herself) has some interesting insights into how introverts fit in to
a culture that's biased toward extroverts.

Here's her TED talk from 2012 (19 min.):

[http://www.ted.com/talks/susan_cain_the_power_of_introverts....](http://www.ted.com/talks/susan_cain_the_power_of_introverts.html)

If you like that, you might enjoy her book on introverts:

[http://www.amazon.com/Quiet-Power-Introverts-World-
Talking/d...](http://www.amazon.com/Quiet-Power-Introverts-World-
Talking/dp/0307352153)

------
_random_
Keep searching and applying. Frankly speaking interview is a quite structured
experience, so you can learn the rules. Also you will be able to become more
extroverted over the time. You are lucky because it's just about only modern
profession that allows you to be both introverted and relatively successfull.
I would bet that John Carmack and Mark Zuckerberg are quite introverted, it's
just that they had a lot of practice and people wanted to hear them
regardless.

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anywherenotes
I would expect in software companies being extrovert isn't a requirement. It's
not a requirement were I work.

Developers don't deal with customers directly, we got support and to lesser
degree management doing that. So I don't see why being an introvert would be
bad.

I guess in a web-agency you will work directly with customers, so it makes
sense to hire people who are better at dealing with people (Office Space
flashback).

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ghostdiver
As an employer I would be interested primarly about productivity, HOWEVER
being introvertive does not help in team work. So it is something you have to
work on.

