

Inside DuckDuckGo, Google's Tiniest, Fiercest Competitor - ASquare
http://www.fastcolabs.com/3026698/inside-duckduckgo-googles-tiniest-fiercest-competitor

======
graeme
I see duckduckgo's traffic page referenced a lot:
[https://duckduckgo.com/traffic.html](https://duckduckgo.com/traffic.html)

Anyone have any idea what Google or Bing's traffic graphs might look like over
the same period? Would be very interesting to do a comparison.

I run a small subreddit, and was quite pleased with how it's grown. Then I
noticed I actually FELL in subreddit rankings. turned out there's just a huge
rising tide.

My intuition is that DDG is growing faster than search is growing, but that
the growth rate may be less impressive than it appears from simply looking at
the chart.

Either way, I'm really, really happy they're challenging google (and also glad
Bing is still in the game). Monopolies are no good for anyone.

~~~
btian
Google's statistics [http://www.statisticbrain.com/google-
searches/](http://www.statisticbrain.com/google-searches/)

DDG is a drop in the bucket.

~~~
graeme
Exactly what I was looking for, thanks. The total isn't as important as the
rate. Google has grown about 40% in the past four years. DDG has grown many
times that.

It's very, very dangerous to extrapolate growth rates into the future. But I
doubt Google's will grow faster, whereas DDG still has the potential to keep
up high rates of growth.

If I did the math right (not certain), DDG has had 3096% average annual
growth. Keeping that up for even four more years would make them large.

So it's not ridiculous to pay attention to DDG's progress. Unless things level
off.

------
nutter
I made the switch to DDG a couple of months ago, as I like their search
results page (long listing, not short pages like Google), but after repeatedly
being frustrated by not finding the results I need (and surprised each time I
hit Google only to find the results right at the top), I switched back to
Google yesterday. DDG as awesome as they are, simply are not Google. :(

~~~
leetNightshade
The reason Google can give you good results is because of the tracking they do
at tailoring the search results to you. DuckDuckGo doesn't do tracking like
Google, so it's not going to be tailored to you.

~~~
sidmkp96
Then what's the point of using DDG, when it can't give the results, tailored
as per my needs!

~~~
hnriot
that's not the only reason, google's results are better because they have
vastly more resources both in employee talent and data. It's not just
something as trivial as keeping track of your search history.

~~~
lxle
Where do you think those vast resources come from? Those resouces come from
selling every ounce of information on you they can, they are even reading your
email before you even open it.
[http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/09/04/google-
spyi...](http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/09/04/google-spying-
advertising-privacy-column/15051241/)

~~~
hnriot
"they" aren't reading email and what does it even mean "before I open it" \-
they host it!!! It's software that "reads" gmail. If you don't want google
reading your email, then simply host it elsewhere. Nobody is forcing you to
use gmail. It's patently obvious that they use gmail and the usage of their
other free services to garner more information to maximize their revenue.
Don't like it, don't use it. It's a simple as that.

It frustrates me no end to read stupid comments like yours. Of course they use
what you freely give them to their advantage. There are plenty of email
hosting options, viable search alternatives, viable mapping alternatives etc
etc. Google don't have a monopoly on anything. They make you a simple trade;
compelling products in return for profiling you, what you say, where you go
and what your search intents might be.

I know perfectly well where google's profits come from. Who reading this site
doesn't?

~~~
lxle
I don't use it. I was just pointing out that their 'vast resources' are coming
from the sale of your info, nothing more. Isn't that the point of these posts?
Your comparing one search engine that is 'trying' to keep your searches
private yet complaining they don't have the resources, when most of those
resources for Google are coming from not keeping your searches private. I'm
not sure where the complaint and or comparison is taking place. I freely give
DDG my search data and they aren't using it to their advantage in the same
manner google is, so whats your point again about ddg not being as good? I
don't get your argument at all.

------
korzun
I'm not sold that are a competitor. I'm also not sold on the privacy niche
that they are trying to fill.

Without funding, they will have to rely on advertising. It's fact. I doubt
companies with serious marketing budgets will use their platform.

Look at AppNexus for example. Pretty advanced technology.

You, as an advertiser would be a total idiot to spend the money on a 'static'
ad placement within DDG.

Statistics matter. If this was 1990, maybe. Not in todays world. People don't
just throw money at stuff like this.

Now from privacy angle. Has anybody actually verified their claims? Or do we
just take their word for it?

Now, they offer Chrome extension and serve advertising. Both of those things
leak data. So slowly, they are starting to have those 'exceptions'.

And do you really think they will be able to tell FBI 'We don't track stuff
sorry guys!' when FBI really needs something from them?

They will either be shut down or forced to log data once they get any useful
traction. That's the way it works.

I bet that once they reach that point, they will pivot as a 'regular' search
engine or look for a buyer (re: Google).

Don't worry, you will get a warm notice of how they fought for your privacy
but at the end they had no choice.

~~~
lxle
Holy defeatest attitude. Your not sold? LOL no your being sold ever single
day. Those things leak data? Find some proof besides your own mind. Talk about
stockholm syndrome.

~~~
korzun
> Find some proof besides your own mind

Proof of what? Referral tracking?

~~~
lxle
The DuckDuckGo extension is to provide duckduckgo searches using chrome, DDG's
ads on 'their' site doesn't track you while your browsing the search results
or when you click, however once you reach the page of the link you click on,
then and only then are you probably catalogued and or recorded. But thats the
independent site you visited not DDG. DDG can't force the websites you visit
that you found using their service to not record or track you once you get
there. In otherwords, ads can and do track, but the ads displayed on DDG do
not...

"We do not use any third parties to do the code insertion, and we do not work
with any sites that share personally identifiable information (e.g. name,
address, etc.) via their affiliate programs. This means that no information is
shared from DuckDuckGo to the sites, and the only information that is
collected from this process is product information, which is not tied to any
particular user and which we do not save or store on our end. It is completely
analogous to the search result case from the previous paragraph--we can see
anonymous product info such that we cannot tie them to any particular person
(or even tie multiple purchases together). This whole affiliate process is an
attempt to keep advertising to a minimal level on DuckDuckGo."

------
lxle
For those who think only Google can find what your looking for there is two
reasons for that, one of course is they are tracking the crap out of you and
tailoring search results for you in your own little search bubble world you've
created, but an even bigger reason why some have trouble switching is because
whether you know it or not, you've trained your brain to search in a Google
like fashion, in otherwords, every search engine takes a little finessing when
choosing what terms your use in your search, I've been using DuckDuckGo so
long now, that my brain is now trained to use DuckDuckGo style search terms,
so much so that those same terms don't always work on Google when they work
just as I expected on DuckDuckGo. If anyone wants some pointers on how to make
the change, simply try adding one extra search parameter to your regular query
that you would use on google and wala, duckduckgo will more than likely find
it, which to me is a small price to pay for a bit more privacy. Yes at times I
also !g bang google, but its gets more or more less frequent.

------
sasvari
previous submission, with lots of comments:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7270973](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7270973)

~~~
dang
Yes, the current post is a dupe. Thanks.

------
bluedino
I've tried switching to DDG a few times but since so many other things are
integrated into Google/Bing it never sticks.

Have the search results been gamed like they have on Google? That's my fear of
DDG getting too big. Google is next to useless for so many searches that just
return result after result of useless sites who have farmed questions/answers
from other sites.

------
TheLoneWolfling
Alright, so this is probably the place to ask this.

Why is there a juxtaposition between what people want and between what people
are willing to give?

Specifically: why do so many people ban web crawlers other than the "large"
ones, and then wonder why the quality of other search engines are lacking?

~~~
Someone1234
> Specifically: why do so many people ban web crawlers other than the "large"
> ones, and then wonder why the quality of other search engines are lacking?

Not to be difficult but is this a real problem? Do a lot of sites ban DDG's
crawler and then complain about the low quality experience? Can you name a
single example?

~~~
maximumoverload
As far as I know, DDG doesn't have a crawler and just uses other search APIs
(Google, Bing).

edit: OK, I was wrong -
[https://duckduckgo.com/duckduckbot](https://duckduckgo.com/duckduckbot)

~~~
lxle
2nd wrong, DDG doesn't use Google for search results at all. Google
essentially killed Scroogle that did exactly what startpage is doing now by
banning their search proxy, which makes one wonder, what is the special
relationship that startpage has with google that scroogle did not.

~~~
maximumoverload
Oh. In that case I got DDG and StartPage confused.

Maybe StartPage still displays Google's ads? They display _some_ ads.

------
ASquare
Gabriel Weinberg also has a super blog (and now a book) on traction that every
startup founder should read.

~~~
WestCoastJustin
Blog:
[http://www.gabrielweinberg.com/blog/](http://www.gabrielweinberg.com/blog/)

Book: [http://tractionbook.com/](http://tractionbook.com/)

~~~
derwiki
+1 to the book, it's chock full of more ideas to try than anything else I've
read. (I'm sure the blog is great too, but I'm not familiar with it)

------
Alupis
Looks like from the query graph in the article, that DuckDuckGo enjoyed a huge
surge in users after the Snowden leaks (more than doubling).

I've only toyed with the idea of switching off google for searching... mostly
because I'm so tied into their ecosystem with my Android... but, I must say,
DuckDuckGo looks impressive.

~~~
derwiki
Just change your default search engine for a week and see what you think. 95%
of the time I get the same results, and I just hop to google.com for the other
5%.

~~~
hyperpape
I've tried several times, and it has never stuck. But other people have
clearly had different results.

~~~
dtparr
Out of curiosity, did you make use of the g! keyword to cause a search to use
Google instead? That was what made the transition easy for me. My search then
consists of doing an initial search, and if the results look poor at first
glance, toss a g! in front and see if it's better.

~~~
hyperpape
Thanks: I'll have to remember to make use of that.

