

How to Make Your Stuff in China  - AHarbs
http://designtheatre.net/2010/04/01/go-it-alone-how-to-make-your-stuff-in-china-part-1/

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samwillis
I work as a product designer in the UK. Recently for our smaller clients we
are finding the the most cost effective way to have plastic parts made
(financial, time and environmental impact) is to have the injection moulding
tools made and tested in china but then ship the tools to the UK and mould
over here. That way we save on shipping costs for the final product and by
working with a manufacturing partner who have a tool shop in the UK you can
maintain tools and ensure quality moulding without having to fly out to china.

This works well if you are making a product in the thousands but would
probably not be the right solution for tens or hundreds of thousands.

China is very cost effective for people time, like making a mould tool, but
power and raw materials does not vary as much. A building full of machines
making plastic parts has a similar cost wherever it is in the world. I think
that as people become more concious of the environmental impact of the
products they are buying companies will begin to move to a model where they
manufacture the product much closer to the consumer and save on shipping it
around the world.

~~~
krschultz
But shipping long distances by container via sea or rail is not that bad for
the enviroment, it is the last bit of travel by truck that really is the
killer. I'm not sure there is a huge difference.

I personally think that make the mold is the most important part, so if
anything that is the part I would not want to give up control on.

~~~
samwillis
The Chinese are very good toolmakers and are significantly cheaper than the
UK. By going oversees you same money and give yourself more in the budget for
more complex tooling with side actions and collapsible cores.

We tent to work with local injection moulding firms that have all the
facilities on-site to make modifications to the tools and would check the
designs of the tools by the Chinese before they start cutting metal.

There obviously is a risk in going to china that you will have to go out there
to solve a problem but we are much happier with that being during the six
weeks that they are making the tool and not the 5 years that it is being used.

~~~
ChinaSourcer
I agree with samwillis.

Here are some tool numbers that I have: US cost = $30k, 8-10 weeks. China cost
= $5k, 6 weeks. That is for a tool I quoted last week.

I slightly differ on where to manufacture the parts. Because in my industry
pennies matter due to several mark-ups in the chain, we manufacture in China.
But as samwillis said, it may not be needed in your business.

samwillis is right when s(he) says that parts and power costs don't change
much, but labor does. Labor in the US is $25 / hr burdened, and in China less
than $4 / hr. If your parts are labor intensive, it makes sense to be there in
China.

------
n1k
Part II: [http://designtheatre.net/2010/04/11/go-it-alone-how-to-
make-...](http://designtheatre.net/2010/04/11/go-it-alone-how-to-make-your-
stuff-in-china-part-2/)

Part III: [http://designtheatre.net/2010/05/01/going-it-alone-part-
iii-...](http://designtheatre.net/2010/05/01/going-it-alone-part-iii-inside-
the-factory-walls/)

The author was also on a panel at TC Dirupt NY called 'getting it built' -
which you can find here:

<http://disrupt.techcrunch.com/2010-nyc/agenda/#built>

Liam Casey was also on that panel - he is a good guy and a great contact to
have in Shenzen (if any HN'ers are looking to build hardware - email him)

------
herrherr
Any fellow hackers here that import goods from China? If so, care to share
your experiences?

~~~
tezza
Yes, I import a component for a device I sell. It's still stealth mode so I
cannot even lever a plug for it here, BUT I'll share my importing experience

1\. Sourcing: Alibaba.com is best, Global Sources is a near shadow copy but
also good

2\. Money transfer: For small amounts I'd recommend Western Union.

3\. Chosing a supplier.

======================

Ooh this step is tough.

I liked this article because Adam has pounded the pavement in Shenzhen. This
is more than I've done, as the flight would blow out the costs before the
market was proven (it is now).

One thing you'll notice is that almost all devices on Alibaba are duplicated
by about 5 manufaturers. Some of these are re-stockers, not the actual
manufacturers. I haven't worked out a foolproof method of checking who the
leaf-node manufacturer really is, but do try.

.

4\. Interacting

Be professional. Normally there are contact details on the Alibaba page. Use
this to initially get in contact. Whoever is listed will probably not be the
person who responds, so scan your spam folder carefully for the next few
weeks.

Remember that you may be small fry to them until you place a large order

.

5\. Shipping

Most things are FOB (Free on Board) which basically means you pay the
shipping. Your Shenzhen company contact should be able to provide you with a
quote for Fed-Exing a sample. They will arrange the shipment, you just have to
pay.

Initial orders can often just be declared as a sample for customs purposes.

.

6\. Costs

Volume counts. It reduces the shipping and unit cost, often in big steps.
Shipping too has discontinuities on volume with shipping becoming much cheaper
if its worth placing on a ship.

For projecting future costs as the supplier how their price list varies with
volume, and how the shipping varies too. They'll quote you.

Plug these all in a spreadsheet and work out the unit cost.

.

7\. Legal

Do not forget Import Duty and Sales Tax. These vary per country (I'm in UK,
but I've also done this in Oz).

But you need to find out how your goods are classified on an Import Duty
scale. This tends to be that goods manufactured in your own country have an
import duty on similar goods. In my case I'm importing discreet LED displays,
which the UK does not make, so I don't pay Import Duty. If I was importing
Plasma TVs, it would have a duty.

Check your country's Import Duty website for your classification. Often there
is a fine line between entries, where it could be one or could also be
another. This is a judgement call which number you choose. The immigration
department may disagree with you and you may have to wrangle with them.

This happened to me in Australia, but after some in-person dignified pleading
(yes there is such a thing), the Import official accepted my classification.
This miraculously had lower Duty than what he'd initially decreed.

.

=================

.

I hope this helps, good luck!

~~~
asmithmd1
FOB usually means Freight On Board which means they will load it onto a truck
at the specified site

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOB_(shipping)>

Free on Board means the goods are counted as delivered when they pass the rail
of the ship that is going to carry them

------
martey
More discussion on the same article at
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1255215>

