
An office building in Seattle that doesn't have air conditioning - dsr12
http://www.kuow.org/post/modern-seattle-building-doesn-t-have-ac-purpose
======
connoredel
This is why paperweights exist. Office buildings all used to have ventilator
shafts which effectively created lower pressure in the interior of the
building. In order to make it work, you needed to have your office window open
AND an interior window open (typically above your office door, so you could
still keep your door closed).

As you can imagine, there was a lot of wind whipping through offices. This is
why the paperweight was invented -- and also why no one uses paperweights
anymore.

~~~
vortico
No longer using paper is also a factor.

~~~
kwhitefoot
There is more paper printed now than ever before. I think you are probably
right about not using it though.

~~~
ptaipale
Paper use is in decline in North America and West Europe. In China, it is on
the rise.

~~~
std_throwaway
China invented paper but Germany invented the printing press. Now China
exports more printers but Germany exports more paper.

~~~
Pulcinella
The printing press existed before Gutenberg, even in China. Gutenberg’s
invention was movable type.

~~~
dorchadas
Movable type also existed before Gutenberg. China was using ceramic and wood
based movable type in the 11th century, for instance.

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dev_dull
> _It’s 85 degrees outside the Terry Thomas building; inside it’s 78 degrees_

In other words, no better than working in a shaded outdoor area. That’s too
hot to work in my opinion. I think they can do a lot better.

~~~
snegu
I would love this. I have to dress for two different climates on summer
workdays - skirt/shorts and short sleeves for outside, jeans and sweater (plus
a sweatshirt over it) for inside. It's absurd how overly air-conditioned
office environments are.

~~~
dnbgfher
Meanwhile you have people like me. I'm are already uncomfortably hot no matter
how I'm dressed (or not) at 78. Even in shorts and a tshirt, most offices are
warmer than I'd prefer.

This may be my own biases at play here, but it's really not that hard to warm
up by dressing warmer. You don't have that option for cooling down unless you
want to wear a vest full of icepacks or something. If the goal is to maximize
comfort, it seems like the thermostat should be set lower rather than higher.

~~~
bumholio
Or we can simply ignore the vocal minority that demands temperatures below
78F/25C, and thus maximize subjective comfort. They are fucked anyway, they
need to visit the outside world to get to work.

~~~
erik_seaberg
Most cars have air conditioning (a lot of trains do too), and most people
commute well before and after the hottest part of the day. If your office is a
sauna for three months and you won't fix it, everyone who isn't unemployable
will probably quit.

~~~
kayoone
funny, here in Germany many offices and most homes don't have AC. Granted it's
usually not that hot during the summer, but right now it has been around 85
since April and a lot of people are suffering at work, but nobody would quit
because of that.

~~~
lowercased
if no other companies they could go work at have ac either... what would be
the point of quitting? people generally don't quit out of protest to just...
do nothing, but they'd quit to go work someplace else.

~~~
kayoone
who would seriously just switch jobs because of AC ?

~~~
rovr138
All other conditions equal, I’d say a lot of people.

That’s the same as asking, “Who would seriously just switch jobs because of
more money?”

It’s a quality of living thing. If you don’t loose anything but can gain
something, why not do it?

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piyushpr134
I am sorry but this sounds stupid. You do not build non ac buildings with
glass exteriors. You build them with bricks. Moreover you have windows for
cross ventilation, high roof, shades over windows and thick brick walls
elsewhere to keep the sun out.

Another, more scientific way could be to pump air through a 20-30 deep well so
that it gets naturally cooled and use it to ventilate the building.

~~~
bornabox
Exactly. In Brazil, there are quite a few big buildings build with this
methodology (long wells that cool the air). I can think of one hospital in the
northeast, one big factory (printing business) near São Paulo, etc. It works
exceptionally well, but as OP mentioned, glass exteriors are not a good idea.

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kylec
_Ten years ago, they built their new headquarters in Seattle’s South Lake
Union neighborhood — without air conditioning, to prove it could be done._

 _It’s 85 degrees outside the Terry Thomas building; inside it’s 78 degrees._

I guess it can't be done. Or if it can, this building is not proof.

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tomohawk
Love the concept, but would totally not work in the mid-atlantic. Summer days
of 95 degrees with 95 percent humidity are not uncommon. Even worse, there are
times it just doesn't cool down at night. In such conditions the building
would become an oven where all surfaces are at around 85 degrees plus.

If you're in an area where it cools down at night and the temperature is more
moderate, being able to open the windows in a building designed this way would
be really nice.

~~~
rovr138
Agreed.

I’ve lived in San Francisco, Oakland and I can see it working there. I’ve
lived in Indiana and if it has heat, I can see it working there when it’s
warmer.

I’ve lived in Puerto Rico. I can’t see this working there.

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kleiba
I currently live in Germany. From my perspective, a more shocking headline
would be: An office building in Germany that HAS air conditioning.

~~~
ulfw
Yes. Germany is incredibly cheap that way, claiming it's "not worth it due to
short summers". Doesn't matter. If you need it only 2-3 months a year, that's
still a NEED right there. Especially during 38C days.

~~~
Scoundreller
At least Germany does windows right.

I have been impressed staying at hostels that had, what I would call, “suicide
windows”.

In Toronto apartments, you have to take invasive action to let the window open
more than 10cm.

~~~
SneakerXZ
Does windows right? In our office (Berlin) we are not even allowed to open
them.

It is funny people discuss 25°C. We had last week 36°C inside of our office,
and a solution from the company? Work from home.

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namibj
Actually the solution is paid leave as it's not possible to do office work at
these temperatures. Read up on it, for next time.

~~~
s_trumpet
Can I get a source on this? 36C isn't that uncommon a temperature where I'm at
- it'll even hit 36+ on a hot winter's day.

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Animats
Somebody there has air conditioning. There's a lot less HVAC on their roof
than usual, but there is some.[1]

[1]
[https://www.google.com/maps/place/225+Terry+Ave+N+%23200,+Se...](https://www.google.com/maps/place/225+Terry+Ave+N+%23200,+Seattle,+WA+98109/@47.6205622,-122.3375243,80a,35y,180h)

~~~
kayfox
I don't see much, just two cage like structures that are probably elevator
motor houses.

Are you mixing them up with the building next door?

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paulcole
My dad built our home near Jacksonville Florida to take advantage of the
direction of prevailing winds. It was essentially all open windows and ceiling
fans with no air conditioning.

During the summer it would be so hot and humid in the house that you were wet
again before you could finish drying off after a shower. During the winter the
complete lack of insulation meant that temperatures inside the house would get
down into the 40s during cold snaps.

On the plus side he was able to brag about us never having an electric bill
above $20.

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_hardwaregeek
I'm kind of amazed that natural temperature management such as geothermal
cooling isn't more of a thing. If you were to design a house with the sleeping
spaces below ground, wouldn't you save a lot on cooling and heating costs?

~~~
swozey
I was just reading that Bill Gates' house is "Earth-sheltered" \-- not sure
how common that is, though, I live in the desert.

~~~
denimnerd
he lives on the side of a cliff overlooking a lake

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swozey
Right, but his house is built into the cliff specifically to help with
thermo/electricity costs. At least according to what I read. Interestingly
enough his house is worth something like $150MM and his neighbors are $8M. If
you Google map him (boring weekend) the person directly across from him has a
fairly normal house with very normal cars (old 4runners, etc.).

Evidently he bought that land in 1988.

The most interesting part of google mapping it was his curious gate. He's got
a really weirdly designed entry gate. Couldn't find any info on it, though. My
friends usually have their initials or their "crest" as gates.

~~~
denimnerd
i went by it in 01 on a boat. there was. an incognito security guard on a wind
surf rig out front. he was just sitting on the board with the sail in the
water. amusing.

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bradlys
Cool - guess no one in that building has pollen allergies or what not. Clearly
designed for only one person in mind.

Personally, I wouldn't work there.

~~~
mlthoughts2018
Yeah, better to work in a dog-friendly, glass whiteboard panopticon with lots
of obligatory-alcohol-focused meeting spaces and management spending more on
the coffee station than on sincere productivity tools for professional
engineers.

~~~
yathern
That's a bit of a false dichotomy. There's no reason this place with no AC
doesn't also pride itself on being dog friendly or have issues with spending
money on the wrong things.

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csomar
I was in Cairo in the summer. The city centre was literally burning.
Temperatures over 40C. No green spaces. Tight buildings.

Around 2-3PM we arrived to the Historical Islamic City and sitting at the
entrance of the mosque I noticed a strong fresh air flow. Despite the boiling
temperatures, sitting there was actually enjoyable. And this is despite the
massive mosques buildings surrounding us. The interior was also pretty cool.

I think it had to do with these things:

1\. The way the massive walls were engineered to allow the creation of strong
airflows.

2\. The material used to build the walls provides good insulation.

3\. The disposition of the walls provides shelter from the sun.

That being said, I have my doubts that the building in the picture will
provide the necessary cool.

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lighttower
Why don't they put solar reflectors or awning on the windows to prevent sun
from getting into the office?

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bumholio
I think a much more practical avenue is to chill the building using the
absorbtion solar cycle.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator)

When the sun is directly overhead you get maximum solar power and that's when
you need the most chilling.

~~~
cimmanom
Except for 2 factors:

1) in many places, heat peaks around 4pm rather than noon in the summer
because heat from the sun accumulates throughout the day

2) days when it’s 85+F with 90% humidity and overcast (such as the last week
or two here in NYC)

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ivansmf
Yes! I still can work on my open floor plan. Let's open the windows and
connect to the awesome traffic jam outside.

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jonhendry18
I bet they'll have to install AC within ten years.

~~~
briandear
They’ll have to install it if they ever want to sell the building. People that
buy buildings are rarely interested in living someone else’s experiment. I
could almost guarantee that given two buildings, the one without proper HVAC
is going to be harder to sell.

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pieterr
It remains funny for a non-US-resident to read about office temperatures of 78
degrees. :-)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit#Usage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit#Usage)

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upofadown
Here is an example of a large office building that is passively heated/cooled.
It uses a dedicated solar chimney for air circulation.

* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manitoba_Hydro_Place](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manitoba_Hydro_Place)

* [https://www.hydro.mb.ca/corporate/history/mh_place_design_an...](https://www.hydro.mb.ca/corporate/history/mh_place_design_and_construction.shtml)

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incadenza
I think this idea is really interesting. Perhaps Seattle is temperate enough,
but a backup AC system may make sense. You’d still get the energy savings for
at least some percent of the year.

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expertentipp
This reminds me the office environment in Germany. The landlords and office
management will go over the top with the most sophisticated and absurd fans,
installations, and running water cooled radiators, but will never, never,
install the bloody AC. Probably because the AC industry (whatever that would
mean) is not big there, while all the other industries are. Have a merry >37 C
this week:)

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rubyn00bie
78 degrees Fahrenheit inside (85 outside) is way too damn hot to work
comfortably for me. There is literally no way I could work somewhere like
that. What happens when it’s 95 outside?

A cold office with a/c helps keep me awake and functioning. Being too hot
staring at a lightbulb all day seems oppressive.

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throwaway413
I lived in Seattle for 20 years. A/C in apartments is relatively common these
days, but definitely still not the norm for houses - unlike CA.

~~~
loeg
I think it's mostly a function of building age. A lot of Seattle housing stock
dates to 1920-1940. Apartments tend to be newer; certainly the new large
apartment buildings all have it (as well as modern spec insulation).

~~~
throwaway413
Fair enough. However, the home I lived in for 20 years (on the Eastside) was
built in 1990 and had no A/C. Such was the case for most homes I visited. When
I moved to Phoenix, the home I lived in, built in 1912, had A/C.

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blumomo
Our WeWork offices in Berlin also have no air conditioning.

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ForFreedom
Don't their computers get hot?

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RcouF1uZ4gsC
Getting rid of AC is not that helpful in combatting climate change. Unlike,
heating which needs fossil fuels to work efficiently, AC runs well on
electricity. In addition, the days that are hot are correlated with days where
you have good sunlight, so solar should be able to generate a lot of
electricity. Finally, unless we are able to deploy cheap, abundant carbon-free
electricity throughout the world, we are screwed. You are never going to
convince the general population to make themselves more uncomfortable and give
up technology for a benefit 30 years in the future.

~~~
userbinator
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump)
are even more efficient than fossil-fuel based heating, and can be used for
cooling too.

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mnm1
Seems un-American to me. Seattle is only about two hours north of me so the
weather is similar and it's hot as hell some days during the summer with
temperatures around 100 degrees. The inside would probably be 90 during those
days. I worked at a place that was 85 during the winter, got extremely sick
and quit. I couldn't imagine working in this place in the summer. The greatest
thing about America is air conditioning. I guess no one told these guys. It
sure would be a huge reason to avoid being employed there. Luckily it's just
one building. No wonder no one else wants to do this.

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h4b4n3r0
Seattle is hostile to comfort IMO. They deliberately make it hard and
expensive to park in the city, even though it’s not really an option for
anyone with kids to live without a car. I wish the owner of this building the
best of luck in finding businesses willing to lease the space. Political
correctness can’t be sustained if you have to sweat profusely to do it.

~~~
tangentspace
I have kids, and have a car, but take the bus into downtown Seattle so I don't
have to park or deal with traffic. It's an option that works fine for me, so
I'd hardly say there's no option other than parking.

And while I'd say I'm reasonably open minded, I'm not particularly politically
correct or making myself uncomfortable to do this. On the contrary, I enjoy
the opportunity to kick back and read on my iPad instead of driving.

~~~
h4b4n3r0
How do you drop off your kids to school or do massive runs on groceries? How
about extracurriculars? How about picking them up from school? Swim team
perhaps (have to drive all over the state to participate in competitions), or
even soccer, or math tutor. All of this requires a car pretty much. But that
is a tangent, as another HN reader pointed out. What’s not a tangent is that I
will not work in an office that’s hotter than about 72F. It’s simply out of
the question.

~~~
tangentspace
Simple, I use the park and ride. I still drive to do all these things on the
way to and from the P&R, and it's really quite convenient. I totally
understand this won't work out for everyone, though.

Just like that office, it may not work out for you to work in such
temperatures, but you can't necessarily extrapolate to conclude that others
will be miserable. I've lived in Seattle since the 80's and having AC
everywhere seems to be a pretty new thing here. Until recently most houses and
schools didn't have AC since the climate is so mild, and I never thought it
was particularly uncomfortable in the summer as long as a fan was running.

