
An Unexpected Ass Kicking - zdw
http://joelrunyon.com/two3/an-unexpected-ass-kicking
======
patio11
My favorite story in a related genre: I was a scholarship student at
university, funded by a wealthy couple. Also at university I had someone who,
over three classes taken together, had graduated from "rubs me the wrong way"
to "nemesis." It turns out that he was also there on the same scholarship.

The university organized a dinner every year to introduce scholarship students
to their patrons. It was at the Ritz-Carlton and I remember feeling very, very
underdressed. Anyhow, it turned out that our 90-something patron was
simultaneously sponsoring about two-dozen scholarship students, so rather than
doing much talking I sipped a coke and just listened to the dinner table
conversation.

Nemesis, in his oh-so-charming way, began bragging about a civil engineering
project that he had been on ("As a sophomore -- really not something many
people do, you realize") remodeling an overpass near the school. He was going
into lots of irrelevant detail -- specs, etc. Our patron made the requisite
politely interested noises and, at one point, suggested that a particular
implementation detail might be improved upon. I recall it being something like
the amount of reinforced concrete required.

Nemesis: "I don't know how things were when you were still working, old-timer,
but I'm absolutely positive that _blah blah blah_.

90-something guy: "Oh, I guess it is possible that they've improved the
formula since..."

Nemesis: "Since when anyhow?

90-something guy: "Since I invented reinforced concrete."

The gentleman passed away a few years ago and, sure enough, that was quite
prominent in his obituary.

~~~
chime
Was the patron <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Monier> ?

~~~
yourapostasy
My guess was that the invention is not an invention as such, but more along
the lines of "he made it practical in a huge way and showed everyone else
following him how to do it". There is often a very long lag between actual
"first to invent" and "figured out how to make it practical without it being
stupidly expensive", and oftentimes the latter is regrettably (IMHO) not
recognized nearly as much as the inventor. A quick bit of Googling around led
me to Tung-Yen_Lin [1], and prestressed concrete, a relatively (as these
things go in civil engineering) modern technique.

Patio11's comment that this was roughly 10 years ago almost fits when this
rather amazing gentleman passed away.

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tung-Yen_Lin>

~~~
patio11
No, not him, and not interested in playing 20 questions.

Look, we all know HNers are smart enough to Google up the particulars. That
would put me in the awkward position of having published a private
conversation by a deceased gentleman who generously paid for several dozen
poor students to go to college, including me. I'd appreciate if you just wrote
this one off to "I trust Patrick not to have invented this story out of whole
cloth" and let it lie.

~~~
asdkl234890
_That would put me in the awkward position of having published a private
conversation by a deceased gentleman who generously paid for several dozen
poor students to go to college, including me._

It's not like you told us he secretly punched babies to steal their toys. It
was a charming anecdote. It makes him look like a great person with a sense of
humor. If anything, the story is entirely flattering. This is not the stuff
secrets are made of.

------
codedivine
No discussion about this?

 _when people use iPads they end up just using technology to consume things
instead of making things. With a computer you can make things. You can code,
you can make things and create things that have never before existed and do
things that have never been done before._

I think closed devices are really a step backwards. I learnt programming (and
a whole lot more, like mathematics and logic), when I picked up a computer as
a kid and discovered Python and started hacking around. I could look around
for tutorials, download code or try out code from books and nobody stopped me.

On a somewhat similar vein, I am also sad that desktops are slowly going away.
I learnt so much more about computers (and how it is not magic) by building my
own.

I think something needs to be said about systems that allow you to explore and
hack around for the fun of it.

~~~
statictype
_when people use iPads they end up just using technology to consume things
instead of making things. With a computer you can make things._

Absolutely true. A lot of people like to mock the position that the iPad is a
'device for consumption' whenever a new story comes out about someone creating
a song or painting on his iPad.

Well, there's a reason why it's worthy of a news story. You don't see articles
written whenever someone creates a song on his Mac or PC.

I love my iPad. It's a great consumption device. But its terrible for
tinkering and creativity (and this limitation is by _design_ ). Let me know
when I can design flyers and brochures from it. Or write a program on it to do
something useful that can be shared with others.

~~~
primitur
I think there's a missing area of creativity and tinkering in the iPad world,
which gets seriously under-evaluated .. MUSIC MAKING.

The iPad is a _fantastic_ creativity/tinkering machine for making music. Its
not consumption, but Performance.

~~~
thornofmight
I hear this a lot. Why is the iPad such a great device for making music
compared to say...a laptop?

~~~
rprasad
Because...magic. And fairy dust. And nobody who uses a laptop could possibly
be cool.

It's not a great device for making music. It's an adequate device mostly used
by hipsters (and I use that term offensively) to look cool, sort of like how
"writers" hang out in coffee shops using Macbook Pros (or various other
expensive laptops, like Vaios) to "write" the next American Novel.

~~~
kisielk
as a musician, I disagree. The iPad makes for a great adaptable electronic
instrument. The major feature of tablets is that they become the app you're
running. This lets the designers of the various synths for the iPad experiment
with interfaces like was never before possible. Check out some of the stuff
that Jordan Rudess's Wizdom Music is putting out:
<http://www.wizdommusic.com/>

Jordan Rudess isn't just anybody, he's one of the top keyboard players alive
today. He's always experimented with alternative instrument interfaces and I
think the fact that he's doing this on the iPad lends a lot to its credibility
as a creative platform.

------
espeed
_Nothing is withheld from us what we have conceived to do._

That quote is from Genesis 11:6:

"And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language;
and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which
they have imagined to do"
([http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+11%3A6&#...</a>).

~~~
joelrunyon
Thanks for finding that reference. I was wondering where he was referencing
when he said that, but I couldn't find it. Thanks!

~~~
chris_wot
And then God made everyone speak multiple languages so there was a lot of
confusion.

~~~
troels
Well, we _did_ get all cocky and built a tall tower. So I guess we had that
coming ... Wait, that sends an odd message?

------
mikecane
I hate it when simple declarative statements are dissected by "lawyer-think."
You entirely miss his point doing that. Did _he_ stop and qualify anything?
Stop and think. He's in his _eighties_ , FFS. Do you think he's spouting
gibberish or something he _deeply thought about_ and saw _actually happen_?
"But this..." and "But that..." -- you're creating your own damn roadblocks.
And then wonder why you can't move forward.

Edit to add: Yeah, I'm cranky. But this is something I've seen here over and
over. Now for the downvotes to DEAD status.

Edited further to add: He said nothing is _withheld_ , not that you could
either do anything or automagically succeed. You can have a revelation -- but
_still_ eff it all up, because it's still ultimately up to _you_. Trust me,
I've experienced that myself! Especially the effing it all up part. So don't
do that.

~~~
dinkumthinkum
What? I'm not downvoting you, I just have no idea what this is about.

~~~
mikecane
Read down further for the dead comment and its replies and also complaints
about the headline(!).

------
hoodq19
Wouldn't it be great if Russell Kirsch went from coffee shop to coffee shop
having similar conversations? Kinda like the hacker version of that scene in
the movie Soapdish where Sally Fields and Whoopi Goldberg go to the mall and
Whoopi pretends to recognize Sally. In the movie, the result was a flock of
women crowding around her. In Russell's version, each encounter would end with
an inspirational blog post or tweet.

~~~
joelrunyon
He's actually pretty low key. I emailed him about the post and he simply said
thanks. Really nice and genuine man. Really glad to have 20-30 minutes to have
been able to talk with him.

That said, it would be really cool if he just went around every week and
picked someone new to randomly inspire :).

------
wglb
Google cache
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:4S2qmnR...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:4S2qmnRrFxcJ:joelrunyon.com/two3/an-
unexpected-ass-kicking+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

~~~
pooriaazimi
For those who don't know _(every time I mention this, I get like 10 upvotes.
Apparently a lot of people even on HN don't know about it!)_ , if you want to
get a (Google) cached version of a page, just type 'cache:[URL]' in Google
search bar and press return.

'cache:<http://joelrunyon.com/two3/an-unexpected-ass-kicking> ->
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?hl=en&outpu...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-
ab&q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fjoelrunyon.com%2Ftwo3%2Fan-unexpected-ass-
kicking&oq=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fjoelrunyon.com%2Ftwo3%2Fan-unexpected-ass-
kicking&gs_l=hp.3..0l3j0i10.883.1862.0.1993.7.7.0.0.0.0.347.1009.3-3.4.0...0.2...1c.UZznL_O067M&pbx=1)

~~~
pneumatics
Thanks sir! And never underestimate the value of the little cantrips like that
to somebody who isn't aware of them. I was astounded that most people didn't
know CTRL+F, and I always ask people if they know about
it.([http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/08/crazy-...](http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/08/crazy-90-percent-
of-people-dont-know-how-to-use-ctrl-f/243840/))

------
gatsby
If anyone is interested, here's a Wired article from 2010 detailing some of
Kirsch's recent work: [http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/06/smoothing-
square-p...](http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/06/smoothing-square-
pixels/)

------
eric_cc
Your server just experienced an unexpected ass kicking

------
csense
It's on the top page of HN right now, and following the link gets me "Error
establishing a database connection." So all I know about the article as I'm
writing this is the title; it's pretty accurate :)

~~~
joelrunyon
Sorry about this. Didn't expect it to hit on HN. Working on getting things
under control.

------
danthewireman
Good job, both in getting him to talk and really listening to what he said.

------
state
It's refreshing to see this at the top of HN. Rarely do I see such precise and
apt criticism of the status quo making the rounds here.

Thanks for writing this up.

~~~
joelrunyon
Thanks. I'm glad I got the chance to meet Russell and share this story and his
wisdom.

------
acqq
Anybody knows more about how this

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standards_Eastern_Automatic_Com...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standards_Eastern_Automatic_Computer)

"SEAC was demonstrated in April 1950, and in May 1950 it went into full
production, making it the first fully functional stored-program electronic
computer in the US."

and this

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stored-program_computer>

"On May 6, 1949 the EDSAC in Cambridge ran its first program, and due to this
event, it is considered "the first complete and fully operational regular
electronic digital stored-program computer"

fit together?

Who made then the first real stored-program computer?

~~~
dbaupp
SEAC was the first real stored-program computer _"in the US"_. EDSAC was the
first one in the world.

------
InclinedPlane
Let's shift the debate a tad. Is the fact that the iPad is predominantly a
consumption vs. creation device inherent in the tablet design or just a quirk
of the iPad's implementation?

Personally, I think it's not an inherent limitation. I believe that tablets
are fundamentally more usable for the vast majority of folks and I believe
that they can and will be used for creating. More so, I think that putting
computers into more people's hands will be a benefit to the human race, even
merely in terms of creativity, that is almost impossible to estimate today.

~~~
gingerjoos
What the iPad will probably end up doing is modify the way in which creativity
is expressed. I would imagine that we will end up having another level of
abstraction and creation will be done with tools like Pipes[1] or IFTTT[2]

[1] <http://pipes.yahoo.com/pipes/>

[2] <http://ifttt.com/>

------
javajosh
I love this. "Do things that have never been done before." Brilliant. Now, if
only I could figure out a way that this advice could help me _eat_.

~~~
Androsynth
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth-share_matrix> bottom left keeps you fed,
top left is doing whats never been done. Cash cow might be your day job and
you work on your stars in the evening.

------
pooriaazimi
Excuse my ignorance, but at which part of this otherwise nice story the guy's
ass got kicked? It was an unexpected encounter with an important figure in
computing that has been quite unknown to people, and it must've been fun, but
at no point I got the impression that he got his ass kicked...

~~~
joelrunyon
It was metaphorical ass kicking. You start to reevaluate how difficult your
challenges are when you start talking to someone who invented the first
internally programmable computer.

~~~
billswift
Actually, the common slang you wanted was "a kick in the ass" or less vulgarly
"a kick in the seat of the pants", as in this book's title,
<http://www.amazon.com/dp/0060155280> . An "ass kicking" is slang for a
beating.

------
csours
You should have asked him what he was babbling about...

[https://www.google.com/search?q=Nothing+will+be+restrained++...](https://www.google.com/search?q=Nothing+will+be+restrained++from+them+which+they+have+imagined+to+do+restrained++from+them+which+they+have+imagined+to+do)

------
andyjsong
I had a semi-similar experience. I sat next to the guy who invented the shower
radio on a flight from SFO to ERW. He told me about his start as an
entrepreneur by getting himself $500k in debt and at the last moment, he sold
the design to Salton.

------
benstein
“Nothing is withheld from us what we have conceived to do.” is a beautiful
idea, but I think Theodore Herzl said it simpler: "If you will it, it is no
dream."

Or paraphrased slightly better by Walter Sobchak, "If you will it, Dude, it is
no dream."

~~~
ucee054
"the principle that nothing is impossible and that where there's a will
there's a way"

from Mein Kampf, by Adolf Hitler

------
sampsonjs
I fail to see how this was an "ass kicking". Mr. Runyon met someone who's a
pioneer in his field and had an enjoyable time listening to him rant about the
iWhatever devices. Did Runyon also "get his shit pushed in" by Mr. Kirsch?

------
Jun8
Fantastic story! Brings to mind the following quote from Bach's "Adventures of
a Reluctant Messiah":

You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it true.
You may have to work for it, however.

------
mcguire
Reminds me of a quote I once saw:

"Attempt great things and great forces will come to your aid."

No idea who said it; I saw it on the side of a refrigerator at the dump while
disposing of a deceased dishwasher.

------
jacoblyles
"Nothing is withheld from us what we have conceived to do." - I love the
archaic language.

------
alanperlman
What a crazy chance encounter. Thanks for sharing this story.

------
MattBearman
Looks like his server has taken an unexpected ass kicking...

------
jamesjguthrie
That is awesome.

------
trueneverland
You still in Portland? Which cafe is this?

------
wyclif
What happened to the post? It's gone.

------
alexshye
Great story! Thanks for sharing!

------
ktizo
I find it funny that our culture is so combatative that such a good encounter
is characterised as an ass kicking.

~~~
joelrunyon
Hey Ktizo - Joel Here :).

The main reason I titled it as such was to show that while I'm working on
doing hard things, Russell challenged me to really step my game up (aka
kicking my ass). I meant it the most complementary way possible. You start to
reframe the way you look at challenges when you meet someone who's done
something like build the world's first internally programmable computer.

~~~
brudgers
"A kick in the ass" is the phrase for what you describe, because it propels
the recipient forward. An asskicking, on the other hand, implies that the
recipient will be out of commission for a while.

------
codelurker
Awesome story!

------
hexagonal

      The first meaning: if you’ve conceived something in your 
      mind, decide to do it, and are willing to put in the work 
      – nothing can stop you.
    

Pfft. What if I conceive to build a perpetual motion machine, or conceive to
disprove Special Relativity?

~~~
donall
If you conceive to build a perpetual motion machine then you will have taken
the first step. The second (more difficult) step will be to conceive how a
perpetual motion machine might actually work, or to come up with a plausible
way of re-writing the laws of thermodynamics.

The point of the quote is not some wishy-washy "you can if you believe you
can". Rather, it might be phrased better as "If you have the vision to see how
something might be achieved and the drive to actually achieve it, nothing can
stop you from achieving it".

~~~
makomk
Lots of people conceive of ways in which a perpetual motion machine might work
- it's why so many people have tried to patent them that the US Patent Office
has a specific ban on perpetual motion patents. They don't work, of course,
but it tends to require a deeper level of knowlege to figure out why exactly
(for instance) any of the magnetic perpetual motion machines won't work than
it does to conceive them in the first place.

~~~
donall
I feel like we're arguing semantics at this point.

