

Leaked NPD(German right wing party) donors-list meets Google maps - kv0
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=de&msa=0&msid=209605995929772957059.0004a4b90d8086e514339&ll=51.727028,11.513672&spn=13.792979,39.462891&z=5

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VMG
Source: <http://hop2.nn-crew.cc/npd/>

Slightly edited Google Translate:

 _First, a few words in advance. I am a proud German, I love Germany above
everything, and I do everything in my power to improve the image of Germany.
If politics or the law will prosecute me, my heart aches. Because if they doe,
all the great words of politicians are vain. Words such as: we will not allow
that brings the NPD or the right wing of our children on the wrong track. We
will do everything to the NPD or the Nazis to stop them. I know my actions
will provoke a broad public interest. That is exactly my goal. I want the
Germans are proud of themselves and their country, of the history and
achievements. The whole world envies us for our intelligence and knowledge.
But ok, that is up to you. The NPD can do what they want, I basically do not
care. But if there is one thing I do care about, it is our children and our
youth. I will not allow the NPD to gain more influence and spread their
propaganda material on school grounds. The NPD is trying to influence our most
precious treasure. I am assuming that you exceed, as a reader, a certain
intellectual level to understanding for what I mean by "treasure". I am not a
man of great words. And for this reason I will leave it at that._

~~~
mhd
_"I am a proud German, I love Germany above everything, and I do everything in
my power to improve the image of Germany."_

First step: Don't ever talk like that.

~~~
radiosnob
as a non-german living in germany, why?

~~~
mhd
We had some bad experiences with "Deutschland über Alles" a couple of years
ago, so "proud to be a German" and things like that are frowned upon, as they
evoke the wrong images.

I leave the discussion about the merits of patriotism out of this, as it
really doesn't matter that much here. This is more about advertising than
content, and repeating the now unsung verses of the national anthem is
generally considered a bit more than just a _faux pas_ and causes legions of
British reporters to perk up their ears...

~~~
radiosnob
i'm not sure if you're alluding to something in particular or trying to make a
joke.

but saying that its frowned upon to be proud of your own country (regardless
of country), is to me, not a nice thing to say. singling germany out forever
because of past events is dis-ingenious.

i would say that anyone whose nose gets bent out of shape because a german
says they are proud of their country probably needs to take a second look at
germany, and then themselves. and if a reporter is doing this, then it is most
likely just stirring the pot

~~~
mhd
It's not just patriotism and being proud of your country. It's the specific
phrases. "Deutschland über Alles" (as in the original text of the hacker) is
pretty tied to a specific era and best left alone as a phrase. Actually, "I'm
proud to be German" as a phrase is tied to right-wing propaganda, too.

The Wikipedia article on patriotism has a nice statistic, although it's a bit
old[1]. A few countries were asked how proud they were of their country, from
a scale of 1 to 4. Most of them are in the 3 range (with the US leading with
3.92), Germany had a 1.37.

Again, this isn't really about what you want to express, it's how you do it.
And a phrase like "Deutschland über Alles" is basically somewhat between "The
South will rise again" and "White Power".

Personally, I find team jersey mentality like that a bit narcissistic, but if
it floats your boat... But if you're about to improve the image of something,
you shouldn't use the terminology of those you're opposing. That just makes it
look like a battle between two equally wrong splinter groups of the same
cause.

[1]: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriotism>

~~~
radiosnob
ok, I think I know what you're going for. My response was based on the fact
that many germans feel that they cannot express their patriotism because of
how other countries/people/stereotypes will view them. intentions be damned.
that was one of the great things about the 2006 world cup here. that all
disappeared.

I think it is safe to say that what was written in the article was done so
deliberately to get a rise from people who want to be a bit "ra-ra".

------
chalst
This has been covered by the mainstream German media:

30.5.2011, Spiegel Online, Hacker kapern rechte Websites,
<http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/0,1518,765784,00.html>

31.5.2011, sueddeutsche.de, Hacker kapern NPD-Webseiten,
[http://www.sueddeutsche.de/digital/attacke-auf-rechte-
partei...](http://www.sueddeutsche.de/digital/attacke-auf-rechte-partei-
hacker-kapern-npd-webseiten-1.1103492)

The NPD response, quoted in the Spiegel article, is laughable: they talk about
how their security was relatively good and that there is no such thing as 100%
security rather than what they are going to do for their exposed donors. With
luck, this means that they will have fewer donors in future.

Just in case the point needs spelling out: for an organisation to to
administer all of its 26 websites from the same machine it stores some of its
most sensitive data is not relatively good security.

~~~
wedesoft
Considering the number of NPD deputies who have lost their mandate because of
fraud, embezzlement, theft, ... I would say that security is not exactly their
primary concern.

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scrrr
Perhaps a bit off-topic:

The world will change in the coming years. Not only in Egypt & Co. but also in
the west. Curious to see how the governments & elites will react. A sense of
enlightenment might propagate throughout the masses. For example: Tomorrow
people might no longer tolerate their government's corruption. The day after
they might decide that they don't really need all the stuff they buy. How
would that effect everything?

If anything, people vastly underestimate the change that the Internet
represents.

~~~
GHFigs
The propagation of ideas is more often a function of their fecundity than
their nobility.

~~~
scrrr
Hm, I think that statement could be contested. But anyway, in regards to the
effect the web has, one could argue that democratization has enough value to
the people who are using the Internet to spread western values in their
countries to go out and do something.

------
hugh3
First they came for the yada yada yada...

I really wish that before deploying a tactic like this against their political
enemies folks would stop and consider what the world would be like if the shoe
was on the other foot and their political enemies were deploying it against
them.

But a seriously large number of people seem to have an attitude that "It's
okay, we can do this, we're the _good_ guys".

~~~
adimitrov
I must agree with you; but the list itself got _so_ much exposure in the
German media already, that it'd be pointless debating this collection in
GoogleMaps.

In general, it's kind of a difficult topic. I agree, that votes cast should
always be private. But I'm partial on donations. A scenario in which
supporters of an illegal party would be prosecuted by an oppressive state is
quite different from simply making it known exactly _who_ supports a _legal_
party in _any_ kind of state. As long as there is no consequence whatsoever
for the donors themselves, I believe that open donations can make the
political game more public, and less secretive.

Wasn't there a similar discussion in America about concealing names of donors
in presidential elections? I can't remember anymore, must've been around the
time Obama came to power.

------
batterseapower
Why is it that people support secret ballot, but not secret donation? Both are
forms of political support, and making them public can in theory prevent
people from expressing their true views. So why is the secrecy of one
protected, but not the other?

~~~
FrojoS
My opinion:

In a democracy, ideally every one should have the same amount of voting power.
Independent of social status, power and wealth.

Secret of vote, is there to prevent bribery and blackmail. Hence, even a poor
and powerless person can vote, according to their heart.

In contrast, donations to politicians and parties, are an attempt to "buy"
elections.

~~~
VMG
You could make it so that even the receiver of the donation doesn't know where
the money comes from.

~~~
hugh3
I heard this idea somewhere else recently, and I think it's brilliant. Instead
of limiting sizes of political donations, just make it impossible to track who
gave 'em. Oh sure, you can still _tell_ your favourite politician "Hey, I just
gave you ten thousand dollars" but they can't possibly check.

Closing a few obvious loopholes: you should only be able to donate in certain
nice round numbers ($10, $20, $50, $100, ... $10,000, $20,000) to avoid
situations where you can tell a politician "Hey, the $15433.33 donation is
from me" and have them confirm it. And it should be fuzzy in time, too --
politicians shouldn't know _when_ a donation came in with resolution greater
than a week or so.

It's great, because people are still free to support their favourite
politicians as much as they like, but with greatly decreased possibility for
corruption.

Politicians will, of course, hate it, so it'll never happen.

~~~
VMG
They don't even have to know the amount of the transactions. The "campaign
donation bureau" can only releases monthly balances.

------
Andi
This is not fair - whoever has donated and whatever party he supports. For
sure, we all know Germany's history and we know that we need to take care
about what nationalist parties are doing. But it is not fair to publish a list
of people who have donated. It is your right to stay private! To conclude:
There are more severe threats: business men insuits, people who underpay
workers. In Germany, the NPD is not the most serious threat.

------
kevinpet
I find it fascinating with these kinds of datasets that the outliers are more
likely than not errors. For example, I'm guessing that "Nevskiy Prospekt" is
most likely in the non-Florida St. Petersburg.

------
JonnieCache
This happened with the UK's own fascist/far-right party in 2009. Twice,
actually.

[http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/oct/20/bnp-
membershi...](http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/oct/20/bnp-membership-
list-wikileaks)

------
zwieback
I'm a little surprised that there weren't higher concentrations in areas that
I usually associate with ultra-conservative views, e.g. the rural South.

~~~
adimitrov
The rural southern areas are conservative, not fascist — though their
conservatism usually implies a bit of racism, that doesn't mean that they tend
to support radical fascism. They're usually too scared to ruin their public or
neighborhood image.

The "battle for the heads" ( _Kampf um die Köpfe_ in German; how the NPD's and
similar right-wing institutions' propaganda battle is often referred to in
German media,) targets mostly bored and disillusioned youth, and is more
successful in the poorer East than it would be in the well-off South.

