
Haute Baroque Capitalism (2017) - bryanrasmussen
https://subpixel.space/entries/haute-baroque-capitalism/
======
keiferski
This essay covers some interesting aesthetic trends, but its timeline and
evidence are manipulated to fit the author’s argument.

But rather than nitpick, I just wanted to say that I find the current “style
maximalism” to be quite fascinating. That was always the promise of
globalization to me: the juxtaposition and mixing of aesthetic and cultural
traditions. Of course you will sometimes get Trump’s gaudy excess, but that’s
more of a comment on his lack of taste than an argument against the baroque in
itself.

Edit: For an everyday example of what I'm referring to: compare the original
Blade Runner (1982) to the sequel (2017). The first film is far more baroque,
dusty, maximalist, and messy - and it lends the film a real sense of
atmosphere and authenticity. This scene is a good example [1]: it's raining,
there are neon lights everywhere, the characters are speaking in a hodgepodge
of numerous languages including Hungarian, Japanese, and German. Later in the
movie, you have a variety of bizarre characters, androids, robot dolls, and
city environments.

Then, compare a similar scene in the new film, 2049.[2] Its style and
atmosphere are far more minimal, modernist, and simplified. It feels _a little
too_ sterile, too clean for a post-apocalyptic city with hundreds of millions
of people. The rest of the film follows suit: the abandoned locations don't
seem that abandoned and the characters are all pretty straightforward. It is
nowhere near as strange of a film as the first one is.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcwOApqmJMQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcwOApqmJMQ)

[2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opDlMeqRACI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opDlMeqRACI)

~~~
dmos62
I found the atmosphere in the new Blade Runner quite captivating. Post-
apocalyptic is a bit of a harsh word. Apocalypse as a concept is human
centric, and humanity survived; it's the surrounding ecosystems that
collapsed. Humanity died in that it was redefined as independent of the
planet.

In 2049 the cities are somewhat sterile and you don't feel the masses of
people living in it, but it's like that already today. In a city with 10+
million people you don't fall over each other when walking down the street.
Usually the city is just big enough to compensate for high population. Sure
you can have slums, but that wasn't explored in the movie, as far as I can
remember.

And this likeness to today's cities is what left the biggest impression with
me. That you can have the planet dead in some meaningful way and have a
lifestyle so much like ours now. It reminds me of fact that most of our
current ways of living in a metropolis are alredy geared towards being
independent of non-city eco-systems.

~~~
justinmk
> In a city with 10+ million people you don't fall over each other when
> walking down the street. Usually the city is just big enough to compensate
> for high population.

I guess you haven't visited Tokyo. The streets are teeming with (non-tourist)
people.

~~~
dmos62
I haven't. I recently visited Shenzhen which has a larger population. When I
showed people photos they were surprised that it wasn't crowded.

~~~
Taniwha
Shenzhen is a modern city, it has big wide boulevards, wide sidewalks, which
makes burying subways easy

It does have smaller "cuns" sort of villages within the city, with narrow
streets and more people, they seem to be knocking down the densest ones (and
building upwards)

------
raintrees
Now I am wondering when we might see our first steampunk-inspired
skyscraper... Someone with Bitcoin/Startup fu money expressing their taste.
Maybe someone taking over a block and attempting to recreate a scene from
Blade Runner?

And I am also reminded of the theory presented by Mark Thornton in The
Skyscraper Curse: [https://mises.org/library/skyscraper-
curse-2](https://mises.org/library/skyscraper-curse-2) \- Yet another
harbinger?

~~~
Ericson2314
Perhaps.

But also I wouldn't call blade runner steam punk. I think it was more
influenced by the actual urban blight in the 1980s. The gentrification white
return trends were not foreseen, so it was assumed there would be more
hollowing out.

Then again, that the big pyramids are downtown, and not in Anaheim or
something, defies that explanation. Contrast is abhored both by suburbs /
white flight / gated communities which seek to flee and hide wealth, and the
modern trends of urban neighborhoods being uniformly more wealthy than they
appear.

~~~
bobthepanda
Blade runner is solidly cyber punk, and its inspiration is very strongly
influenced by Hong Kong, which is flashy and modern and neon, but a lot of
those neon signs are hiding decrepit buildings housing people in slumlike
conditions.

------
nateberkopec
I find this "baroque capitalist" style is even more present in certain
cultures outside the West, particularly those that are just becoming "rich" in
this generation.

Walking around the Dubai airport terminal, for example, is an assault of this
"maximalist", silver/gold style. Modern Chinese buildings sometimes feel the
same way. It's like the whole world is turning into a Las Vegas casino.

~~~
9nGQluzmnq3M
DXB is positively staid by Arab standards. Try eg the Emirates Palace in Abu
Dhabi, which reputedly cost $2 billion to build and is over a kilometer wide.

[https://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g294013-d507156-Rev...](https://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g294013-d507156-Reviews-
Emirates_Palace-Abu_Dhabi_Emirate_of_Abu_Dhabi.html)

------
esotericn
Did buildings that we now celebrate as being 'historical' look gaudy in their
time?

Say, a cathedral or similar with a bunch of non-functional ostentation?

~~~
keiferski
_Historical_ doesn't really communicate much, but the tension between
_neoclassicism vs. the baroque_ or _rationalism vs. romanticism_ are good
places to start. Early American architecture was very neoclassical (for
example, most of the monuments in Washington D.C.) but you don't get much
baroque architecture in the U.S., as the highpoint of baroque was in the
1600's and early 1700's.

The short version is that at certain times, ornamentation has been seen as
gaudy and excessive, while at other times it was perceived as richer and less
boring than more functional or minimal architecture.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baroque](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baroque)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoclassicism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoclassicism)

------
wavefunction
Versailles was interesting to visit but after a while all that intricate
detail became exhausting, which is perhaps why the gardens surrounding the
place are such a needed relief. Great for impressing nobles who visit
infrequently, but tedious to live in I must imagine even if just for the
summer months.

------
bitwize
If you think this started with Trump, go to Newport, RI and visit some of the
mansions. Trump's (and Vanderbilt's) style reflects a single narrative
manifested at many different levels of abstraction: "Look at me, I'm rich!"
And it never ceases to fill people with awe: if a person has enough
money/power to commission this sort of thing, what else could they do with
it?!

~~~
roenxi
And that is a very specific purpose of such houses rather than the author's
hypothesised "insecure egotist". The same thinking goes in to making houses of
worship or government beautiful and intricate.

The point is to hit people with jaw-dropping opulence to get them into a frame
of mind where they are small and they are dealing with something large. It is
easier to convince them to do things they would not ordinarily do, and it
makes them much more likely to see their host as important and able to provide
unforeseeable opportunities.

Showing off is fun, but billionaires are canny and strategic people or they
don't get to stay as billionaires. There are probably a few layers of thinking
beyond being crass when pictures of their homes are pushed out into the public
sphere.

~~~
cousin_it
To me, buildings with decor are pretty human-scale and relatable. But the
decor-less brutalism, which came as a reaction to that style, really succeeded
at making people feel small. I grew up in Moscow, and even as a child I hated
being around concrete boxes, but loved being around the Seven Sisters - the
kind of imperial buildings that OP doesn't like.

~~~
bitwize
Brutalism is a different kind of making you feel small: the "you are an
insignificant insect and will be crushed flat without even a moment's
consideration" kind. I'm quite sure Brutalist architecture inspired the design
of the Vogons' buildings and spaceships in various Hitchhiker's Guide visual
media, for this reason.

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jaggednad
A lot of truth in this article, but I disagree that trump has anything to do
with this trend. As other commenters have pointed out, this trend predates
trump’s ascension. The author admits vapor wave predates trump, as does Burner
art and certain Japanese styles which I think played a major part in producing
and popularizing this aesthetic. Trump’s aesthetic bears superficial
similarities with this aesthetic, but I think in the same way that a stopped
clock is right twice a day.

~~~
Ericson2314
I don't think the article hinges on trump bringing this stuff out. I think its
more like the _existing_ popular appeal of this stuff counteracted / re-
channeled disgust.

------
voldacar
I think the author tries too hard to link everything to Trump. That first
skyscraper from the MFGA is definitely maximalist and baroque, but in a
decidedly different way compared to trump's buildings. Honestly I think the
world could use more buildings like it. Cities of endless rectangular prisms
are boring

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gumby
One drawback to those intricate exteriors is how they age.

