
You Can Spend $750 in International Data Roaming in One Minute on AT&T - martin_
http://jeffreifman.com/2014/06/04/yes-you-can-spend-750-in-international-data-roaming-in-one-minute/
======
cpwright
I think the title understates one issue and overstates another.

He had a $750 bill, because he had no data package. They were willing to
settle it after the fact for the $30 15MB data package; which seems fairly
reasonable.

On the other hand, it seems that at the end he claims, and I don't know if it
is true or not; that AT&T didn't bill him for his US usage for the hour prior;
and then dumped all that into one bucket at the higher rate. I think this is a
serious thing that really matters; if they are charging you for international
data that is not actually international that is (in my mind) fraud. Proving
that, is probably next to impossible for an individual.

~~~
sergers
Living close to the Canada US border this happens all the time.

Op could have been at the border for an hour in the lineup roaming as the line
can be several hours to get through at the US-can truck border crossing and/or
the peace arch crossing they traveled through, need more details.

My phone might pickup a cell tower in US while in Canada at home and I get hit
with roaming...

Just need to contact carrier and explain that you were not across border.

There is a reason why your phone has turn off data when roaming options... For
people who don't have roaming data plans so you don't accidently use roaming
data.

~~~
vermontdevil
I have the same issue. In-laws have a business in a small town north of Port
Huron which is across the lake from Canada.

With nothing between the town and Canada but the lake, often my phone would
randomly switch between AT&T or Rogers. I'll get hit with insanely expensive
roaming charges without realizing it. Not till the phone switches back to ATT
and I get a text message. That requires me to call ATT and deal with it.

It's such a headache that I just turn off the phone when I go there. My in-
laws and all their friends in that area sticks with Verizon for this reason.
ATT needs to find a way to be smarter about geo-location and not just randomly
switch around when one is near the border.

~~~
danellis
> My in-laws and all their friends in that area sticks with Verizon for this
> reason.

How does that help? My Verizon phone used to roam onto Canadian networks if I
got too close to the border.

> ATT needs to find a way to be smarter about geo-location and not just
> randomly switch around when one is near the border.

No kidding. It's not like they don't know exactly where you are.

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cvg
This is crazy. International roaming is one reason I switched to T-Mobile. I
recently traveled through Southeast Asia and had usable internet throughout
Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, and Vietnam (looks like no more free
internet in Vietnam). The internet was about 256-512 Kbps and was available
even in rural locations. I also had access to my US number when I was on wifi
- calls in and out. T-mobile coverage isn't perfect in the States, but overall
pretty happy with the switch.

~~~
danellis
> International roaming is one reason I switched to T-Mobile.

It's nice that it doesn't cost any extra, but in my limited experience with it
(in Canada and the UK), it is _extremely_ slow. It's fine for having your
phone picking up your mail, but things like Google Maps don't seem to work so
well, and anything that involves uploading speech for recognition just seems
to fail.

~~~
psykovsky
Yes, because you can't type what you want to ask google, you need speech
recognition, you delicate flower.

~~~
danellis
Yes, there are times when it's useful. That's why it exists, you insufferable
prick. As it happens, I was using Glass a lot during that trip.

------
doublerebel
I travel back and forth to Canada all the time, and ATT makes a total mess of
it. I've had all the Canada packages available for some years now, and they
still regularly mess up billing -- I've had the Canada package disappear off
my bill, and on other occasions been charged the wrong amount for the package
or texts.

It doesn't help that most of the CSRs are clearly untrained about the
different packages -- I've spent hours on the phone undoing mistakes made on
previous calls.

Long story short, I'm finally switching to T-Mobile. After a couple near $1K
bills it's clear roaming is pure profit for ATT -- T-Mobile's texts are free
and basic data roaming is too. ATT still charges ~50c/msg. I'm going from
ATT's 2 lines, 4GB total with Canada for ~$190 (typically more like
$250-$300+) to T-Mobile's 2 lines, unlimited data and global roaming for $100
flat, no overage. It's a no-brainer.

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sehugg
The EU is taking steps to abolish exorbitant roaming fees like these:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_roaming_regulati...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_roaming_regulations#Proposal_to_abolish_all_roaming_charges)

~~~
switch007
Great. I can't wait for domestic call charges and monthly fees to rise as a
result.

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izacus
Hmm, interesting - for comparison, here in EU the telco MUST disconnect your
data after you burn through 50EUR worth of roaming charges and send you a
notification (which is usually an SMS to which you reply if you want the data
reenabled).

Saved me and my family alot of money a few times when we forgot data roaming
on and apps started downloading updates.

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choppaface
I had a similar experience but didn't have to pay. AT&T's i18n data system
(the whole thing) is a piece of junk.

* I unlocked my phone (iphone4S), went to Asia, and bought a SIM card for a local carrier. The SIM card didn't work because I had unlocked my phone the day before leaving, and AT&T claims they need 30 days to process unlock requests.

* Fine. I bought AT&T's data roaming plan, and turned data on a few hours later once I confirmed AT&T had charged me. Data worked OK, though I couldn't get texts, and was therefore locked out of my work email which had text-based MFA. Alright.

* I return to the US and promptly cancel the month-to-month i18n data plan. Phone behaves normally.

* A _full week_ after being back in the US, I get a text from AT&T saying my data is suspended for excess use. I call them (this is at 9pm and I'm trying to get dinner) and they drag me on for 45 minutes. Their system didn't recognize my i18n plan purchase and they wanted $700. Eventually they got an adjuster to drop the charge completely.

Moral: even if you play AT&Ts games you'll still get burned. Request for
Startup: a telecom customer service provider.

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grecy
This and many cases like it are now illegal in Canada thanks to the CRTC's new
Wireless code of conduct.

Among other things, overages are capped at $50.

More details here :

[http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/12/02/wireless-code-of-
con...](http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/12/02/wireless-code-of-conduct-
crtc_n_4372436.html)

------
crazygringo
I'll be honest, this is one of the reasons I use pre-paid (StraightTalk). It
automatically deducts $50/mo., so it's just as convenient as a contract, but I
know I can't be overbilled, because there is no bill. Only difference is, you
pay at the start of the month instead of the end.

Just the peace of mind, knowing that crazy charges can't happen because you
have your phone on while abroad, is worth it.

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nextweek2
On the English coast, the white cliffs would sometime mean that you were not
inline with an English tower but if the weather is right you could pick up a
French telephone tower.

Much to the annoyance to the local residence the telephone company would mark
you as roaming and all data and calls for that day would be charged as
international. I was caught out about 10 years ago, one would hope charging
was more granular these days, however the roaming issue does still exist:

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-
kent-21739029](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-21739029)

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wodenokoto
I always wonder who is pocketing this money. In the simplest case you have two
operators. You own (local) and the 'foreign'.

In the simplest setup you would have a price structure that is foreign charge
+ local charge. What probably is inflating it is that both local and foreign
operator charge a service charge, which is where the insane prices come into
existence.

So who are overcharging here? Both?

My old company explicitly stated that international prices were foreign
operator plus current charge, but the foreign operator prices were quite
inflated compared to what friends in those countries were paying at the time.

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jtheory
This is about more than the rate, of course, but I was surprised to see that
kind of cost for just crossing the Canadian border.

For comparison -- my home carrier in France is SFR. In the UK or in the
Netherlands (I haven't been elsewhere in Europe recently, but this is probably
similar for other European countries as well) data roaming is 24 euro
cents/MB.

I _do_ see data roaming rates more like AT&T's when I'm in Malaysia - 10
euros/MB (yeah, I get a local SIM). But that's far afield - not just driving
into a neighboring country.

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gumby
This is why I stick to my grandfathered unlimited data plan (even though it
means I have no tethering feature) and switch off data roaming.

It hurts me to do this -- I'd gladly change if the marginal costs weren't so
horrific. But the idiotic carriers their noses to spite their faces: if they
spent less work on generating billable events they'd probably get more revenue
and spend less on overhead to get it. Bob Frankston estimates that 30% of
network traffic is just managing the tollbooths!

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__xtrimsky
I just buy an unlocked cell phone and buy a sim card for each country I go to.
When I go to France, costs me 20 Euros for unlimited calls (including to the
US), unlimited texts and 3Gb of data.

What if someone wants to call me? If I'm abroad it's mostly for vacation, I
can give my new number to family members wishing to contact me. If I can't do
that? I still get texts and voicemails through Google Voice on my phone. And
if needed I can enable calls through data on my phone using hangouts.

~~~
mig39
Another great feature for local SIMs is that they are often "caller pay." So
that if your family does want to call your French phone number from the USA,
then they end up paying for the call, not you :-)

I'm Canadian, and my first stop when driving into the USA is to stop at the
first department store I come across and buy a T-mobile SIM. If they don't
have any, I just buy the cheapest "burner" phone and take the SIM out and pop
it into my iPhone.

------
twsted
Sad story, been there (in Europe). It is a legalized robbery.

"They also were unable to document the bandwidth usage to any detail but this
is partly understandable for privacy reasons."

Ahahahahah

------
MichaelGG
Ha! Fido.ca lists roaming data at over $6 _per KB_. I asked a rep and
confirmed on my contract.

So at 4G, that's about, what, $10,000-$30,000 per _second_?

~~~
benguild
That is so outrageous. They clearly do this insane billing because it’s left
over from the GPRS days, and it pushes people into the also overpriced plans.

There needs to be some sort of legislation passed to limit this, but since it
only matters internationally it’s a gray area and carriers are getting away
with it.

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ndomin
Does anyone know what it actually costs a carrier to have you on roaming data?
For example is AT&T being charged extra by the Canadian carrier for the data
you use?

------
pskittle
If the OP is reading or anyone who travels internationally get Freedompop.
It's almost free.

~~~
martin_
What about T-Mobile? [http://www.t-mobile.com/simple-choice-international-
plans.ht...](http://www.t-mobile.com/simple-choice-international-plans.html)

~~~
pskittle
freedom pop is an app.

~~~
sokoloff
Huh?

I have a (physical) device called a FreedomPop. It is a local wifi hotspot
that routes traffic over a mobile data network. And it's awesome for giving
the middle-finger to overpriced hotel wifi services and the like.

www.freedompop.com (I have no connection other than a very satisfied user).
I'm so satisfied that I won't even post my affiliate code, lest someone think
I'm shilling for my own benefit.

~~~
db48x
Or you could do exactly the same thing from your Android phone, provided
you've rooted it. Installing Cyanogenmod makes it even easier (you won't need
to download an app; the wifi access point is right in the settings), but isn't
required.

~~~
pjbrunet
I'm curious, what kind of data transfer rate do you need to get a solid call
through? In the past when I tried to make WIFI calls through Google Voice
"Hangout Dialer" the call quality was poor.

~~~
db48x
For VOIP calls you don't need much bandwidth, but you do need low latency and
low jitter. Both are pretty bad on cell-phone data connections, so it's rarely
worth the bother.

However, these comments are about providing a wifi hotspot that routes over
the data connection rather than VOIP.

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fnordfnordfnord
Obligatory, sort of related post from 2006.
[http://verizonmath.blogspot.com/2006/12/verizon-doesnt-
know-...](http://verizonmath.blogspot.com/2006/12/verizon-doesnt-know-dollars-
from-cents.html)

~~~
paralelogram
"Teenager checking Facebook in Antigua runs up £9,000 phone bill":
[http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2353904/teenager-
ch...](http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2353904/teenager-checking-
facebook-in-antigua-runs-up-gbp9-000-phone-bill)

"Woman hit with £12k holiday phone bill for downloading BBC sitcom":
[http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/517556/12k-holiday-phone-
bi...](http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/517556/12k-holiday-phone-bill-
download-BBC-sitcom)

"VC’s mobile phone bill sets alarm bells ringing":
[http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Coimbatore/vcs-mobile-
ph...](http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Coimbatore/vcs-mobile-phone-bill-
sets-alarm-bells-ringing/article6903561.ece)

"Alberta PC leadership hopeful Thomas Lukaszuk dialed up $20,000 in data
roaming charges on 2012 international trip":
[http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/08/25/alberta-pc-
leadership-h...](http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/08/25/alberta-pc-leadership-
hopeful-thomas-lukaszuk-dialed-up-20000-in-data-roaming-charges-
on-2012-international-trip)

"Holidaymaker faced eviction after phone giant Orange took almost £1,000 from
her bank account for bill she racked up by checking her emails in Thailand":
[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2716750/Holidaymaker...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2716750/Holidaymaker-
faced-eviction-phone-firm-Orange-took-1-000-bank-account-bill-racked-checking-
emails-Thailand.html)

"'Orange billed me £1,477 for £48 worth of data'":
[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/household...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/household-
bills/10886822/Orange-billed-me-1477-for-48-worth-of-data.html)

"Arnaldo Brown’s million-dollar phone bill due to ‘roaming’":
[http://loopjamaica.com/2014/10/30/latest-jamaica-news-
arnald...](http://loopjamaica.com/2014/10/30/latest-jamaica-news-arnaldo-
browns-million-dollar-phone-bill-due-to-roaming/)

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jkot
I got 6GB of maps, 22GB wiki snapshot, an several GB of talks and pdfs on my
phone. Just buy sd card.

