
Toronto tech is growing but relying on outside talent - salbowski
https://blog.brainstation.io/5-things-we-learned-about-torontos-tech-boom/
======
jcwilde
This article seems to implicitly characterize it as a positive, but the lower
cost of business in the Toronto tech scene is subsidized by low wages for tech
workers.

As the article states, the talent and diversity of education is top-notch, but
the compensation is yet to match—Toronto tech workers need to demand higher
wages.

~~~
adossi
When you compare cost of living in downtown Toronto to the average developer
wage there, it is pretty grim. You can make the same amount or more outside of
Toronto (Mississauga/Oakville/Hamilton/etc.) while the cost of living is down
significantly. You could live cheaply in Toronto, sure, if you like rats and
cockroaches.

~~~
joenot443
I recently made the move from Hamilton to Toronto. While I completely agree,
the COL in Toronto is through the roof compared to Hamilton, I've found it to
be worth it.

Toronto is a world-class city, Hamilton and Mississauga simply are not.

Keep in mind this anecdote is coming from a single male in his 20's, so I've
found the nightlife, music scene, and social opportunities to make the high
cost of living worth it.

~~~
jcwilde
I would further argue that tech jobs in Hamilton/Mississauga (or other
satellite/burbs) don't compete with Toronto-proper in terms of compensation.
Which leaves you with 1-2 hour commute each way just to try to save a bit on
housing, and still not getting the benefit of properly compensated tech work.

~~~
adossi
>I would further argue that tech jobs in Hamilton/Mississauga (or other
satellite/burbs) don't compete with Toronto-proper in terms of compensation.

I have to disagree with you here. The highest paid senior developer job I was
offered in downtown Toronto was about $155K (after benefits etc.) meanwhile
I'm working a contract job in Mississauga that pays significantly more than
that ($70-80 per hour per client, 40 hours+ per week). Its a personal anecdote
sure but my experience over the last ~6 or 7 years of working in the GTA has
lead me to that conclusion.

~~~
jcwilde
I don't think you can compare full-time employment with an hourly contract
directly.

The rule of thumb I've heard a few people use to convert from employment to
contract is to multiply your hourly employment earnings by 2.5 to arrive at
your contract rate. By that math, you're still under-earning outside of the
downtown core.

Mind you, I'm not sure that conversion has ever fully rung true to me, but the
general point of not being able to directly compare still stands.

~~~
adossi
2.5 seems a little excessive. By that math someone making $100,000 a year
salary should be earning $150.00 per hour contract. $150.00 per hour contract
at 40 hours a week is about $312,000 a year.

You're right about not being able to make a direct comparison. My
understanding, and the reason I choose to work contract, is because we have
OHIP, so health benefits aren't too important. I think a company pays
something like ~$5,000 a year per employee to insure them. Then when you
factor in bonuses (if any) the salary rate is still abysmally small compared
to if I were to work contract.

I went from making $70,000 a year in Toronto, to $70 per hour. That jump for
me was absolutely massive, and I essentially started making double (after
taxes $70K per year became $140K per year).

Perhaps the problem is not the pay in Toronto. Perhaps the problem is with
salary developer jobs in general.

------
crw5996
This is great to see. I visited Toronto for the first time last week and was
amazed to see how much the city had to offer. It was so clean and the PATH
pedestrian tunnels were the coolest thing I've ever seen.

I would have no qualms moving to Toronto from the United States to work if the
right opportunity arose.

~~~
thecleaner
Even with the current compensation scene ? Software salaries seem to be really
low everywhere except US. Even in other places its the american companies that
pay well and the rest are bad.

~~~
crw5996
No. Personally, I would have a hard time turning down SF, Seattle, or NYC for
Toronto; this is mostly because of salary.

I've never been to SF, but compared to the other two cities I named above,
Toronto was much nicer imho. For a city of 2m+ people, it just felt incredibly
clean and safe

