
Reddit bans subreddit dedicated to finding the Navy Yard shooters - tshtf
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/09/16/reddit-bans-subreddit-for-finding-the-navy-yard-shooters/
======
debacle
This is not really news. Reddit has always been against "doxxing" people, and
you can't really collaboratively determine the identity of someone without
doing so.

~~~
parfe
> _Reddit has always been against "doxxing" people_

That is verifiably untrue.

Reddit admins permitted the Boston bomber witch hunt to continue and didn't
issue an apology for a full week. Reddit had wrongly and emphatically accused
a missing student of being the perpetrator.

Reddit admins permitted the continued doxxing and harassment of a preacher who
left a bad tip. The reddit CEO previously issued a statement saying "We do
believe that doxxing is a form of violence, rather unique to the internet. "
yet allowed the preacher harassment to continue unabated.

Compare that to ViolentAcrez being outed where the Reddit admins immediately
instituted a site-wide ban for the story.

Reddit is entirely arbitrary with who it chooses to protect from doxxing, and
why.

For more on reddit's fluid doxxing policies see:
[http://www.popehat.com/2013/02/04/reddits-doxxing-
paradox/](http://www.popehat.com/2013/02/04/reddits-doxxing-paradox/)

[http://www.popehat.com/2012/10/17/follow-up-a-few-
questions-...](http://www.popehat.com/2012/10/17/follow-up-a-few-questions-
about-reddits-stance-on-free-speech/)

~~~
amerika_blog
> Reddit is entirely arbitrary with who it chooses to protect from doxxing,
> and why.

If you agree with the official Ideology, I think you're safe. Otherwise,
you're the enemy. The whole site is /r/politics with a vigilante twist.

~~~
aroch
I take it someone's mad that their "blog" was banned or ridiculed?

------
vezzy-fnord
I suppose they don't want to encourage vigilantism?

Either way, I remember last time during the Boston bombings when 4chan and
Reddit users had purportedly unearthed a conspiracy that Blackwater guards
were involved, which caused a buzz but later turned out to be an immense red
herring.

As for troll havens, that's always been part of their culture, so no surprise
there.

------
xutopia
Yet they won't ban a subreddit extolling the virtues of giving women, any
women, a beating.

~~~
rmc
Yep, only some form of protected speech are banned. The proctected speech
that's possible to attach real world consequences to people who advocate for
beating women.

~~~
aroch
You have no protected speech on reddit; they aren't the USG and by no means
have to comply with the first amendment. So get off of your high horse,
they're allowed to enforce their policies how they feel fit.

Edit: Also, you're going to have a hard time getting a favorable
interpretation of True Threat Doctrine from a court -- which is really the
only reason why it would be removed.

~~~
tomjen3
Reddit has said over and over again that they won't police content on their
site, unless it is one of a few things, doxing among them, or it is illegal.

~~~
rmc
_or it is illegal._

Illegal in USA.

Doxxing is not illegal in USA but they ban it.

------
consider_this
Reddit is a business, despite so many trying to convince themselves otherwise.
Businesses don't like negative publicity. This is not new information.

After the Boston bonanza Reddit is going to squash anything that looks even
remotely like it.

------
michaelbuckbee
Post the Boston Bombing they apologized for mis-identification of people from
the threads: [http://blog.reddit.com/2013/04/reflections-on-recent-
boston-...](http://blog.reddit.com/2013/04/reflections-on-recent-boston-
crisis.html)

------
ChikkaChiChi
So Reddit is responsible for subreddits when someone gets accused by a mob but
weapons manufacturers are not responsible when their guns are used to murder.

I don't believe this, I just find the serendipity ironic.

~~~
Asterick6
This isn't even a valid comparison.

~~~
ChikkaChiChi
Unfair maybe, but valid. The pro-gun lobby considers guns to be a tool and in
no way a contributing factor to the escalation of violence ergo manufacturers
have no responsibility.

Websites are commonly blamed for the activities of their users, when in fact
all it is is a tool for communication.

------
fnordfnordfnord
I guess Reddit thinks that sort of thing is best left to 4chan.

------
t0
Edited: Public opinion went down on the Boston Bombings. Money was lost. In
the interest of money, someone decided not to do the same thing again. Whether
this was the right call comes second.

~~~
amerika_blog
> Rather than do what's right, they're now more concerned with public image?

That's always been true. Their justification is legitimate if it was actually
the reason for the ban, which after the /r/FactualFalcon debacle last month is
dubious:

> Erik Martin from reddit tells us: "We banned it because it violated site
> rules by encouraging the posting of personal information. The quote from the
> side bar that subreddit that was banned said "no personal information about
> leads unless you are really sure." We do not allow the posting of personal
> information under any circumstances."

~~~
t0
But how can you go from " _no personal information about leads unless you are
really sure_ " to NOTHING?

Is it correct to sacrifice catching the bad guy to protect the small chance
that someone is wrongly accused?

Reddit now simply holds their public image higher than justice. I would wager
investors and senior management who have a financial interest made this
decision.

~~~
nemothekid
Its more of a position that Reddit will more than likely be wrong. Truth be
told, the last thing someone needs is an army of highly emotional armchair
sleuths who are ready to take the law into the their own hands.

This isn't about "sacrificing catching the bad guy", it's about giving proper
due process. Look how wrong Reddit was about the boston bombers. Imagine if
the guy they found was ultimately alive and someone found him and paraded him
through the streets. Its no better than mob mentality.

Truth be told, I can't really understand how people can not support Reddit's
position. The "pseudo-anonymity" leads people to believe that somehow these
Reddit sleuths can be trusted. Look at this way, if your local town to decided
to carry pitchforks and hunt this man in the streets, clearly something is
wrong and democracy has failed. I for one would not like to go back to burning
and hangings.

~~~
spangled
_Truth be told, the last thing someone needs is an army of highly emotional
armchair sleuths who are ready to take the law into the their own hands._

Not a popular position on HN.

------
rmc
Fun fact: Reddit (& the main culture) is a big fan of "Free Speech" (in the US
sense), however reddit bans one form of protected speech: doxxing.

~~~
ianstallings
Reddit has free speech too. It works both ways.

~~~
lutusp
> Reddit has free speech too.

Actually, Reddit doesn't have free speech. Reddit moderators are famous for
enforcing their personal views by banning, or threatening to ban, people who
express dissenting views. The level of censorship is so high that one wonders
whether those doing the censoring even understand what free speech refers to.

Example:
[http://arachnoid.com/psychology/reddit_psychology.html](http://arachnoid.com/psychology/reddit_psychology.html)

~~~
ianstallings
I meant they are exercising their own rights by not allowing it. You could
always not use the site. I don't visit it anymore. Haven't in years. Too many
flaming liberals. _Ba dum ching_.

~~~
lutusp
> I meant they are exercising their own rights by not allowing it.

If you mean the moderators, yes, I agree to some extent. I think it's bad form
to contact someone privately and threaten banning if they don't stop
dissenting from popular views, but it's not an earthshaking issue either.

> Too many flaming liberals.

Too many flaming whatever. Too much heat, not enough light.

------
amerika_blog
Reddit continues to play whack-a-mole with controversy, ignoring the fact that
using /r/SRS and /r/SRD to police a social media site into political
correctness will produce inevitable blowback.

~~~
ketralnis
It's almost like the admins, the contributors to vigilante subreddits,
contributors to SRS/SRD, and in fact everyone on reddit are different people
or something.

~~~
mbrutsch
What would _you_ know about it, jack?

~~~
amerika_blog
I haven't trusted that site since they allowed a shock-journalist to dox one
of their most productive members.

