
The Jeffrey Epstein case is why people believe in Pizzagate - Melchizedek
https://theweek.com/articles/851426/jeffrey-epstein-case-why-people-believe-pizzagate
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cafard
Right, and Marilyn Monroe's death is why people believe that the moon landing
was faked? Or are we overthinking this?

I would suggest that people believe in Pizzagate because other people who knew
better but had reasons to pretend not encouraged them to do so. Once you start
from the premise that Hillary Clinton is the Queen of Night, and that clues to
this truth are woven throughout the fabric of reality, then any old list of
nouns--pizza, takeout, whatever--can be mapped to any other list plausibly
enough.

(If I sound grouchy about this, I am--I sometimes shop or dine on the block
where Comet Pizza is.)

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PaulHoule
The "winner take all" turn of the culture has hurt the legitimacy of the
system and I think it feeds anti-vax, "the moon landing was a hoax", etc. It's
just too transparent that the people in charge grade their own papers.

To counter it, the elite has to be held to a standard higher than we hold
other people. Otherwise the erosion will keep happening.

~~~
wahern
> the elite has to be held to a standard higher than we hold other people

It's so infuriating when U.S. political pundits interpret the Impeachment
Clause phrase, "high Crimes and Misdemeanors", as requiring ordinary criminal
or even heightened criminal behavior. The qualifier "high" refers to the
office, and reflects a notion that public officials in positions of trust
should be held to a stricter moral standard than in private life--
specifically, the moral standards we should expect of those entrusted with
high offices. That is, behavior that _would_ _not_ be criminal for a private
individual _could_ _be_ a high crime or misdemeanor for a public official.

See, e.g.,
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_crimes_and_misdemeanors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_crimes_and_misdemeanors)

It's mostly Republicans who push this interpretation (though Democrats made
similar arguments, albeit less vociferously, during Watergate). But Democrats
remain silent because the Impeachment Clause is worded in a way that gives
Congress an _affirmative_ _duty_ to prosecute high crimes and misdemeanors,
and for strategic reasons the Democratic caucus would prefer to shirk that
duty.

~~~
PaulHoule
It's tough because the law can't compel people to be good.

It's a fundamental problem with liberalism and is part of the crisis that
liberalism faces all around the world; people see our institutions failing and
they start to wonder if maybe China has a better idea.

If you are in a position of authority (parent, teacher, manager, ...) one
thing you should learn right away is that you need to model good behavior if
you want to control bad behavior. That's because your subordinates will
certainly model any bad behavior you do.

It's always shocked me how bipartisan the moral rot is. For instance, Epstein
was close to both Trump and Clinton. Both Trump and Clinton had daughters who
married the sons of convicted felons. Given that Chelsea Clinton might be
interested in public life some day I can't for the life of me imagine why she
married the son of this guy:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Mezvinsky#Criminal_acti...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Mezvinsky#Criminal_activities)

~~~
gotorazor
Confucianism is not that great in practice.

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SideburnsOfDoom
I'm half-convinced of the notion that the "Pizzagate" idea was spread on the
plan that "whatever our side is about to be accused of, make sure that the
other side is accused of it first".

It's like projection, only not unconscious; it's deliberate deflection to make
the real thing look less believable when it comes up.

What I am more certain of, is that in general in modern politics,
disinformation has been weaponized to a high degree.

~~~
bitlax
That doesn't make sense since Democrats were accused of having sex with minors
in both cases.

~~~
SideburnsOfDoom
Which Democrat said that Epstein was a great guy who they like to have fun
with? Which democrat was possibly introduced to their beautiful wife by
Epstein ?

~~~
ceejayoz
I'm liberal as all get out, but it seems clear Epstein was an equal-
opportunity cultivator of powerful figures in both parties.

Trump's being dumb enough to publicly brag about the association is very on-
brand, of course.

~~~
Fjolsvith
> I'm liberal as all get out, but it seems clear Epstein was an equal-
> opportunity cultivator of powerful figures in both parties.

> Trump's being dumb enough to publicly brag about the association is very on-
> brand, of course.

Trump is playing the main street media like a violin. If you are thinking he
is doing something because he seems stupid, it's just part of the plan.

Trump did say back in 2012 that the pedophiles had to go. [1]

And, since his inauguration, the massive crackdown on them has largely gone
unreported.

1\.
[https://mobile.twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/2552948836...](https://mobile.twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/255294883680632833?lang=en)

~~~
hvoiiita
Any person who looks at Trump holistically can't trust his tweets at all. They
are consistently contradictory.

~~~
Fjolsvith
Trump uses tweets for two purposes. First is to inform the public. Second is
to further his strategies.

An example is how the Squad of 4 started to attack Pelosi. Trump slammed the 4
on Twitter and caused Pelosi to jump in and start defending them. This had the
effect of making these left extremist Dems the face of the Democrat party. How
does that benefit Trump? It makes the Dem party unpalatable to a majority of
Americans, which turns 2020 into a cakewalk for him.

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onemoresoop
The conversation was civil. Why was this flagged??

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nootropicat
I think the majority of politicians in Western countries have at least one
filmed child sex episode. Assume you're a very powerful politician and you
need underlings in powerful positions, which you can help novices get, but
once they get powerful they become independent and can stop being underlings.
Filming them having sex with an kid, or at least an obviously underage teen,
is the single best blackmail material possible. Damage potential basically
equal to murder evidence, but there's no hard to hide murder victim - and in
child sex one victim can be used several times, as opposed to just one time in
murder.

As every such cabal would be much more effective than a lone politician,
eventually power would entirely shift to competing cabals bound by child sex
blackmail - making it impossible to dismantle externally, because both the
executive, the judicial system and the biggest media would be controlled by
people in such arrangements. Media in particular would have the main job - in
case of any genuine leaks, mix the truth with outlandish claims to discredit
it as a dumb conspiracy theory.

The game theory works out so nice I don't see any alternative, it's the stable
state of the political system. I can see it being murder though, if disposing
a body is much easier than my estimate.

In non-Western societies it could be something else. In North Korea, being
filmed shitting on a photo of the current leader would work much better I
guess.

~~~
tyleo
I don’t think this is the case at all. I’m not sure what you mean by, “the
game theory works out so nice I don’t see any alternative”. Our political
system was in place long before the technology was here to do this sort of
thing. The alternative is that voters just aren’t educated about every detail
of a candidates personal life so some sketchy candidates get through.

~~~
ceejayoz
> Our political system was in place long before the technology was here to do
> this sort of thing.

People have been blackmailed for scandalous actions long before video to
record the incidents. No technology is required.

