
The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys - andrenth
https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/1282731020647895043
======
11thEarlOfMar
Here's another angle. The increasing censorship within China leaves less and
less opportunity for the greater Chinese population to learn about the
capabilities of other countries. A few examples of excellence that are still
available to Chinese citizens are the NBA, Apple products, US education and
Tesla cars. Most nations export excellence of some type to China.

Having these examples in their hands or on their screens likely initiates a
mild cognitive dissonance: "The CCP news tells me how terrible the USA is,
yet, these elements in my life are excellent beyond what is created by my own
country." It's reminiscent of Russian defectors who couldn't rationalize the
images they were shown of US poverty, illustrated by films from the Great
Depression wherein the 1930s streets of New York were clogged with cars. Or,
Boris Yeltzen visiting an American grocery store in 1989, and being
overwhelmed at the variety of products and full shelves [0].

As the reins of censorship and propaganda tightens in China, there may be less
and less of the world to pierce through and belie the narrative they are fed.
Perhaps we should not abandon them any sooner than we must.

With that said, if it's a deliberate approach, we need to get the messaging
right. The NBA should stick to 'we are ambassadors for the USA to the world'
and leave any politics at that.

[0]
[https://www.chron.com/neighborhood/bayarea/news/article/When...](https://www.chron.com/neighborhood/bayarea/news/article/When-
Boris-Yeltsin-went-grocery-shopping-in-Clear-5759129.php)

~~~
throwaway2474
Your comment is about 15 years out of date. There isn’t much that is
“excellent beyond what is available” in China anymore. This type of thinking
is why western foreign policy continues to get China totally wrong. Chinese
people who study abroad are more often confused by the things missing in the
west than they are liberated in the way you describe, in my experience.

~~~
throwaway_kufu
> There isn’t much that is “excellent beyond what is available” in China
> anymore.

Democracy and freedom of thought.

Despite your experience of Foreign Chinese Students being confused rather than
liberated by the West...in my experience I’ve never met a Foreign Chinese
Student that didn’t want to permanently relocate to Canada or the US.

~~~
nmfisher
For those in an (economic) position to emigrate, China lacks nothing in a
material sense. Cars, electronics, clothes - they're not only available,
they're well within the purchasing power of these people. In fact, what I
dislike most about modern China is the endless gleaming shopping malls full of
the same (mostly Western) brands.

But not everything is material, and creativity and freedom of expression
definitely have an impact. I have a reasonably large circle of Chinese
acquaintances via my wife, and anecdotally, I've never met a single emigrant
who actually returned.

A lot of them definitely complain regularly about how much better China is,
but none of them actually pack up and head back. I think that's telling.

~~~
magicsmoke
Not sure how much of that is political rights, and how much of it is just less
competitive pressure abroad because of lower population. Easier to get into
colleges and find jobs. Might want to ask and confirm.

~~~
MagnumOpus
> less competitive pressure abroad

Or in other words, better quality of life? Yes, you can drive a new beemer,
have a house with a pool and and 3 holidays abroad every year in China too --
if you are the one in a hundred to win the job lottery and work 60 hours a
week not to get sacked (or if your daddy is a CCP aristocrat).

In the US/Western Europe/Japan at least half the people can affort that upper-
middle class living standard, while only working 40 hours.

It's less competitive pressure because everyone can achieve it.

~~~
doteka
Never thought I would type these words but if you think half the people in any
place can manage an upper middle class lifestyle, you need to check both your
statistics and your privilege.

~~~
mrkstu
If you drop the 3 vacations abroad and the 'new' appellation to the car, then
1/2 of the people in the US can reasonably aspire to the rest of that with
hard work and self discipline.

------
ezluckyfree
This shouldn't be surprising to people. The NBA has a bigger fanbase in China
than in the USA.

[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-09/china-s-5...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-09/china-s-500-million-
nba-fans-face-loyalty-test-in-standoff)

~~~
reedwolf
It seems really random that the Chinese are so into NBA. What next, Greeks
being really into American gangsta rap music?

~~~
Lammy
It's spycraft, a way for US culture and influence to penetrate China. It's
deliberate.

~~~
miles
If anything, it seems more like spycraft for Chinese culture and influence to
penetrate the U.S.:

American Basketball vs. Chinese Hardball: Guess Who Won
[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/world/asia/china-nba-
cens...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/world/asia/china-nba-
censorship.html)

NBA Stars Study Hollywood’s Playbook in China
[https://www.wsj.com/articles/nba-stars-study-hollywoods-
play...](https://www.wsj.com/articles/nba-stars-study-hollywoods-playbook-in-
china-11570852864)

NBA, 'South Park' episodes spotlight Hollywood's China dilemma
[https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-hollywood/nba-
south...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-hollywood/nba-south-park-
episodes-spotlight-hollywoods-china-dilemma-idUSKBN1WP1BJ)

‘South Park’ creators issue mocking ‘apology’ after China reportedly bans
sitcom
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1KCVj_v0ik](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1KCVj_v0ik)

Band in China [https://southpark.cc.com/full-episodes/s23e02-band-in-
china](https://southpark.cc.com/full-episodes/s23e02-band-in-china)

~~~
Lammy
How many Chinese-broadcast basketball games are American basketball fans
watching? :)

------
hn_throwaway_99
This is a couple days old. The NBA has since taken down the ability to
customize jerseys at all. Not sure if this is worse.

[https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/voa-news-
china/nba...](https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/voa-news-china/nba-
halts-personalizing-apparel-following-freehongkong-controversy)

------
racl101
This is why I'm not hot on big corporations virtue signalling to us consumers.

It seems that they all have moral, _entanglements_ (to borrow Jada Pinkett's
parlance), with China that they cannot seem to reconcile.

But they want to lecture us about important cause du jour?

Please! Spare me the self righteousness.

~~~
JesusIsKing
IIRC McDonalds banned black people in China, however they virtue signal about
BLM in the USA.

[https://heavy.com/news/2020/04/mcdonalds-bans-black-
people-c...](https://heavy.com/news/2020/04/mcdonalds-bans-black-people-china-
video/)

Coke Cola used to be pretty pro Nazi back in the 1930s.

[https://www.adbranch.com/coca-cola-ads-in-nazi-
germany/](https://www.adbranch.com/coca-cola-ads-in-nazi-germany/)

Corporations don't care about anything other than keeping the money coming in.
So they will support any cause as long as it seems trendy.

~~~
htfu
> Corporations don't care about anything other than keeping the money coming
> in. So they will support any cause as long as it seems trendy.

Fair enough. But next time either read your own links or get better at
obfuscating. Neither of them says what you imply.

~~~
JesusIsKing
Fair enough on the first one as I was guilty of reading the headlines.

> Athletic competition was a Nazi ideal and the Coca-Cola GmbH cashed in
> heavily on this infatuation by becoming one of the biggest sponsors of
> sports events, most notably the annual Deutschlandrundfahrt (National
> Bycicle Championships) and the Soccer Cup.

The second is fine.

~~~
htfu
It is not. [https://hoaxeye.com/2018/01/19/nazi-
cola/](https://hoaxeye.com/2018/01/19/nazi-cola/)

------
bdz
The funny thing that you can order it from SEA (mostly Thailand) for roughly
~$30 through [https://www.dhgate.com/](https://www.dhgate.com/) DHGate is
perfect to buy fake jerseys that are pretty much the same with genuine tags.
Either stolen from the factory or they work overhours, I don't know. But the
quality and the actual product is almost always the same.

~~~
atarian
This is also a good way to get in trouble with customs.

Source: Have a friend who bought counterfeit items and got held up at customs
for it.

~~~
Waterfall
How?

They get seized at worst, you get a reship. Nobody cares about it as long as
you aren't getting 50+ for resale.

~~~
atarian
>It is illegal to purchase counterfeit goods. Bringing them into the United
States may result in civil or criminal penalties.

[https://www.cbp.gov/FakeGoodsRealDangers](https://www.cbp.gov/FakeGoodsRealDangers)

~~~
acid__
Realistically though, CBP isn't going to come after you if you're buying a few
hundred bucks of apparel for personal use.

~~~
DanBC
You can find yourself on a CBP list if you import counterfeit goods.

[https://www.racked.com/2018/1/8/16849298/amazon-
counterfeits...](https://www.racked.com/2018/1/8/16849298/amazon-counterfeits-
global-entry-customs)

~~~
gruez
Funny how there's a list for natural persons, but not (large) corporations.

------
frogpelt
Economics can explain so much.

There is a huge cost to the NBA if they stand with Hong Kong.

There is also a very small cost to the NBA and or more probably no cost at all
if they fully embrace other movements such as BLM.

People upset about this are upset because the NBA (and other sports leagues
and media) have become more socially active or political lately but they still
refuse to speak up on topics that hurt their bottom line.

~~~
oh_sigh
I don't exactly get it...will Chinese people just start enjoying a different
sport if they think few people in basketball don't like how mainland China
treats Hong Kong?

What sport isn't going to have athletes using the bully pulpit for their
cause, which sometimes is HK?

~~~
frogpelt
No, the CCP will censor the NBA out of the country if they stand for things
like Free Hong Kong.

------
rs23296008n1
Who's really in power? They're the ones you can't offend. Or else.

~~~
chrisdirkis
This sounds like a play on the old Voltaire quote, "To learn who rules over
you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize."

A common joke response is "wow, we'd better rise up against kids with
leukemia."

~~~
rs23296008n1
I'm the sort of person who would tell that kid to clean up their room.
Normalcy is underrated.

As for Voltaire, while I'd buy that guy some wine, the lack of meaningful
progress on something at least like CFE from RFC 5984 is somewhat of a
barrier. My limited understanding is that its still in development rather than
anything near production ready.

------
MangoCoffee
its funny to me that you can put "fuck the police" on NBA jersey but you can't
put "freehongkong". its kinda double standards, isn't it?

NBA really want that Chinese market. i find it interesting that Western
corporation is willing to abandoned the western values they championed for
money or rather i guess Corporation don't give a fuck about anything as long
as they make money.

~~~
jcytong
That seem to be the strategy of the CCP. Blocking foreign influence (Google,
Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, etc...) with the Great Firewall while taking
advantage of the West's openness to promote their own platform TikTok, WeChat,
...

That allows them to promote their ideologies and export "The China Way" to
becoming the next World's superpower without changing. Great way to take
advantage of the asymmetry to have your cake and eat it too.

------
peacefulhat
I tried buying some custom Nikes with "ADIDAS" written on the side. The online
tool explicitly banned it. I got the online form to take "PUMA" but the shoes
arrived with no custom message.

------
Synaesthesia
Can you put “Free Palestine” on them?

~~~
jraby3
Free Palestine from Hamas would be perfect.

------
lanevorockz
China won, they already hold power on all relevant companies in the US and
Europe. Thing is, how can we make sure we at least keep some individual
liberty as they slowly take control of the world.

------
pyuser583
When was the last time Hollywood made a major movie about the Tiennamen Square
protests? Or the Chinese war against Tibetan autonomy?

Notice how in Top Gun 2, the Taiwanese regalia had been removed.

American elites have no problem censoring American citizens (in America) to
appease Chinese elites.

This has been going on for a very long time. What’s different is people are
realizing it.

------
epx
One could try fr33h0ng|<0ng

~~~
frogpelt
Numbers wouldn't work either.

------
mc32
What about the WNBA, can you buy their jerseys do customization and irritate
the NBA?

------
vaxman
America’s organizations want access to the Chinese market and, absent any
regulations to the contrary, when necessary are willing to compromise the
values of our American Way of Life. But those regulations are (finally)
coming. In the meantime, when they are caught doing things like this, they
risk being attacked on Twitter by the President.

------
Buldak
When I first read this headline, I thought it was referring to the social
justice statements that NBA players now have the option to add to their
jerseys in lieu of their names. Only after a double take did I realize that
this is about the jerseys that fans customize and purchase for themselves!

------
motoboi
There are more people playing basketball in China (300 millions) than people
in the USA.

Think about that for a moment. How many friends of you, American citizen,
don’t play basketball but like to watch it?

This is why China is more important to NBA than America.

------
yumraj
How about: Free China of CCP

That’ll take care of all the underlying issues.

~~~
mywittyname
It won't change the minds of the millions of people in political power in
China. Lots of Chinese feel quite strongly that the Taiwan/Tibet/Hong Kong
claims are legitimate and that the international community is attacking China.

I guess it would be like if the US was forced to cede Texas back to Mexico
because they lost a war. Most Americans, regardless of political party, would
hold the opinion that Texas is still American territory, regardless of
international opinions on the subject.

~~~
thoughtstheseus
How can anyone hold a political position in China and not hold those
viewpoints? It’s illegal, in practice, to speak or take actions otherwise.

------
libx
This mass censorship that we are living in allows and promotes all sorts of
manifestations of the so called anti-racism white over black. It's of interest
to the controlling regime to do so. But, when there are manifestations against
the totalitarism, they are forbidden. Because, again, the deep govern owns the
political, economical, mass-media and so forth all over the world.

------
klyrs
I recall Nike being in a similar situation. As I recall, they forbade terms
like "sweatshop".

~~~
hn_throwaway_99
But that's a bit different. For Nike, writing "sweatshop" on a show is
equivalent to bashing _Nike_. Freehongkong isn't a negative message against
the NBA itself.

~~~
kevin_thibedeau
Almost as bad as the taxation without representation some cities have to
endure.

------
bobjordan
I wonder if “Free Portland” would fly.

------
hatsunearu
140 bucks for a jersy, damn lol

~~~
ShorsHammer
I bought one of these for about $80 nearly a decade ago and still holds up
good despite all the sun and abuse. Compared to most clothing out there it's
certainly made well. I have a lot of respect for clothes that last, too much
stuff, even high priced, is basically unwearable in a year or two, which is
incredibly wasteful.

------
ed25519FUUU
I’m continually surprised at how willing the elites, the media, corporate
America and our elected politicians are to carry water for China.

Our elected politicians expend endless breath calling “Wuhan virus” racist but
don’t even dare utter a word about an active genocide against Uighur
minorities? No problem with the president of one of our largest rival
countries effectively becoming a dictator for life?

Let’s all keep calling people xenophobic while Xi consolidates power and
swallows HK.

------
huffmsa
They had fixed it so you could as of 1830cst 13jul2020 last I was poking
around

------
qbaqbaqba
You don't know how communism works. There are no "Chinese companies" or
"Chinese investment founds", or "Chinese 5%". There is only the Party. The
single and only united entity, political and economical. There are wealthy
people but they don't own any capital or means of production. They may own a
Ferrari but can't own a wheelbarrow. They may decide if they want to buy a
villa in Italy, but they can't decide to buy a Pizzeria in Verona.

There is no difference between political and economical power. If you accept
any Chinese capital, you are dealing with the Party. The Party's decisions are
not economical, they are political. They will destroy any company for a
political gain. They don't make any decisions that are apolitical.

It's not about selling your products or services to China, it's about
following the politics of the party.

There are no Chinese students. You can't leave a communist state just like
that. Money don't matter. You have to be a good citizen, you must leave your
family behind, you must agree to cooperate with the intelligence and to follow
politics of the Party or you will never will be allowed abroad again or
something bad will happen to your family.

There is no China, there's just the Party. There are no individuals, there's
just the Party.

------
runawaybottle
The West has been through this version of the fight before. Can’t draw
Muhammad cartoons? Can’t say Free Hong Kong?

I don’t want to see our top institutions buckle like this.

This is a real fight, it keeps popping up. These things are worth protecting.

------
jimbob45
It’s ~$80 for a men’s NBA jersey. I’ve never been able to understand why they
want to charge me out the ass for me to advertise their product. If I was the
NBA, I’d give jerseys away like candy and install basketball courts in every
park I could in the US to keep interest high in basketball.

~~~
dasil003
Because the best advertisement for their product is people who are actually
_into_ the product. You don't need to give away stuff to them to keep them
interested, because the product speaks for itself. Furthermore, seeing more
basketball around is not going to turn non-fans into fans. To do that you need
something that transcends the sport such as a Michael Jordan or 2015 Warriors.

Now, outside the US in places where NBA has not yet saturated your approach
makes more sense, but you could also burn a lot of cash for no returns if
you're not careful.

------
apta
[http://www.reddit.com/r/avoidchineseproducts/](http://www.reddit.com/r/avoidchineseproducts/)

------
taurath
I don’t understand why stories like this get thru, but other extremely
relevent/interesting stories like medical data related to COVID get absolutely
no coverage. Is “China Censorship” so relevant to HN that even an NBA-related
story is okay?

------
supernova87a
You know, people are absolutely free to buy the shirt and stencil on any
sentiment or message they feel.

Or is speech only meaningful if you added it to your shopping cart and it went
through the pipes of commerce? Kind of exactly what people are upset about in
the first place?

~~~
Hnaomyiph
People are upset because more and more companies are ceding to a government
which is actively committing genocide, suppresses ideas and free speech of its
own people, all so that these companies can make more money.

~~~
supernova87a
How about not buying the shirt then, instead of complaining about the message
you're helping to fund while buying it?

~~~
moate
I mean, people would prefer to not have to walk away from the things they
enjoy.

You're being a little pointedly obtuse here. People want the world to reflect
their values. Very few political vegans would prefer to ignore that there are
still restaurants serving meat, they'd rather the culture shift away from that
sort of practice. Similarly, people would prefer the sport they enjoy watching
not support the government policies they don't support.

"Why not just ignore anything you don't like" isn't how the world works.

