
Apple is reportedly building a ’16K’ VR headset - Dangeranger
https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/27/apple-is-reportedly-building-an-insane-16k-vr-headset/
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ipsum2
I watched this rumor get bounced around the internet today, it's pretty
hilarious how the facts get stretched every step of the way.

Claiming dual 8k displays (remember, 2 8k displays does not turn into a 16k
display headset, because you need to double the height as well). From
MacRumors: [https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/27/apple-ar-vr-
headset-8k-...](https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/27/apple-ar-vr-
headset-8k-displays/)

Further rumors claims it'll run a custom 5nm processor
([https://www.macworld.com/article/3269471/consumer-
electronic...](https://www.macworld.com/article/3269471/consumer-
electronics/report-apple-is-working-on-a-wireless-ar-vr-headset-to-release-
in-2020.html)), even though there are currently NO fabs that can get 5nm.

Apple might be working on a VR headset, but I doubt these rumors are true.

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kbenson
> remember, 2 8k displays does not turn into a 16k display headset, because
> you need to double the height as well

Do you? I suppose everything that doesn't match the traditional 16:9 aspect
ratio we use _now_ is incorrect then? What about the fact that our displays
were all 4:3 prior to that?

I guess it depends on whether we are considering 16k and 8k as something
denoting specific _sets_ of height and width that are standardized, as we have
started to do with 4k (which is usually talking about 3840x2160, to my
knowledge, because nobody wants to say 2160p).

~~~
Terribledactyl
That wasn't an aspect ratio point, it was about the stereoscopic requirement
of display headsets.

Both eyes see mostly the same "8K" of content, just from a different
perspective.

edit: Actually that's not quite right, even if you forgo a stereoscopic mode,
the same content has to be shown to each eye. It's not like having dual
monitors on a desk.

~~~
kbenson
> That wasn't an aspect ratio point, it was about the stereoscopic requirement
> of display headsets.

Regardless of what's being shown, if the unit can display that many pixels in
a row (possibly bifurcated), I don't think it's out of the question to refer
to it that way. From a device-centric perspective, it's more accurate. From an
"end-user that will use it primarily as a stereoscopic headset display" it's
less accurate, even if that user may not be able to see all of the display
space at once anyway(?).

> edit: Actually that's not quite right, even if you forgo a stereoscopic
> mode, the same content has to be shown to each eye. It's not like having
> dual monitors on a desk.

It's not the _same_ content if used for 3d. It is very similar content tough
(possibly verging on being identical in what I suspect are rare instances).

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kurthr
Well at 8k per eye (horizontal?) and 57pix/deg (retina resolution) that would
be 140deg, which seems a bit of overkill (although it's close to max FOV).
This is made especially difficult since latency is so critical to preventing
VR nausea (120-180Hz). However, the bandwidth required to drive such (a pair)
of displays would exceed 200Gbps (5 Thunderbolt per eye) so I assume going
over the air there'd be a lot of compression? That's ignoring the GPU
requirements which also scale... so seems like overkill.

More likely it's 8k total (4k per eye foveated rendering), and a single 20x9
display, but that's just a guess. You can do lots of things for a demo.

Edit- note the pictures are from MagicLeap and the idea that there are
miniaturized high resolution microLED displays is pretty funny... perhaps they
mean microOLED? Those top out below 8K even for max reticle size (30mm) die
with 8um sub-pixels.

~~~
threeseed
8K with H.265 compression over WiGig could work.

And as for driving the displays it's possible today for a single 8K monitor.
So maybe Apple has internal technology (or assumes the technology will
improve) to drive dual displays.

~~~
steve_musk
Also, just because the screen is 8k doesn’t mean the entire image needs to be
rendered at 8k. They could track the eyes and render the focus point at native
resolution while the periphery could be reduced (foveated rendering).

------
wpietri
So it seems to me that Apple's MO is to wait for market proof before releasing
anything. The iPod wasn't the first MP3 player. Ditto the iPhone and the
iWatch.

I totally believe they're working on the technology. But I would bet that
they'll wait to release anything until other people have demonstrated that a
real, non-novelty market exists, so that they can come in with a much more
polished solution than everybody else.

(Unless I'm missing something, of course. I keep looking for a user base where
a VR headset is a daily driver. But as far as I can tell, it's still in the
early adopter realm. Which is fine, but I don't think it provides a situation
where Apple can polish something into a mainstream hit.)

~~~
adrianN
If a VR headset could replace my monitor I'd use it for programming.

~~~
wpietri
That's an interesting hypothetical use case. But my point is that Apple
doesn't really build for hypothetical use cases. What they're really good is
finding niche existing use cases and then making great consumer products out
of them.

So I wouldn't expect Apple to enter the "VR as monitor replacement" market
until there's already a bunch of early-adopter types who are wearing goggles 8
hours a day.

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supernes
Rumor has it that it'll work seamlessly with your Apple Car and Apple TV set
as well.

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amanzi
I don't think Apple would release a VR headset until they could call the
resolution "retina". I don't know what that translates to in terms of pixel
resolution but with the screen only a few centimetres away from the eyes, it
would need to be pretty high.

~~~
michaelmrose
Retina has as much technical meaning as high res

~~~
aikinai
Apple gave it a specific definition. It means you can’t see the pixels, and
for the average human, you can calculate it per a given screen distance.

~~~
michaelmrose
I can't see individual pixels on my 1080p screen 18" away although 4k screens
certainly look sharper. Also the term retina has been used on ranges of dpi
even on the same category of device.

Because retina is a brand meaning nicer display anything else is purely
marketing kool aid having nothing to do with reality.

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throwaway84742
One thing for sure: they are working on something really big, and have been
for some time now. Apple believes in focusing on things that matter, often to
the exclusion of everything else. When they get real quiet and only release
minimal spec bump upgrades you know something big is coming. That said,
there’s no way this will be 16k right off the bat. By third gen, maybe, but
not right off the bat.

~~~
acqq
IMHO, they have simply bought Vrvana and let them work further, for who knows
which time targets. And even if those working on the experiments have fixed
and shorter-time goals, it doesn't mean that a finished product will actually
be delivered to the market. But the rumors spread, which is in the interest of
a lot of media:

[https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/21/apple-acquires-mixed-
reali...](https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/21/apple-acquires-mixed-reality-
headset-startup-vrvana-for-30m/)

Additionally, typically the "other players" in the given field like to support
the rumors that what they want to deliver is also "the next thing from Apple"
too. More than once I've read claims that "Apple is producing" the features of
iPhone that more matched the short-time next that was released by Samsung then
what Apple actually produced, typically much later, even some years later.

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rdlecler1
I’ve read that reality is around 88 million pixles. This gives you around 33m
pixels per eye. Getting close, although I think you also need some fantastic
frame rates and contrast ratios, the obviously some pretty powerful computers
rendering all of this. It seems like we have to make 4-6 major technology
steps to get where we want to be, each taking 2-3 years.

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jacksmith21006
Believe it when I see it.

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trumped
that's not really hard to believe...

~~~
jacksmith21006
Like the car and TV and the new thing each couple of weeks that never happens?

~~~
trumped
I think that you meant the new battery with 10x the capacity of lithium-ion
batteries...

But in this case I have no trouble believing...

Apple need an edge somewhere... they were the first to come up with retina
display, afterall...

~~~
jacksmith21006
Apple did not create the retina display. They purchased the displays.

Still true today they buy them.

