
Google tracks users who turn off location history - oinkgrr
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-45183041
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mtmail
200+ comments in
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17749330](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17749330)

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some_account
How come that is not in top items of hacker news?

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beat
Because the evil Google conspiracy suppressed it!

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froogie
You say that as if xorporations didn't do this by e.g. vote manipulation in
Reddit.

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323454
To add one datum, I turned off location history thinking that meant that
Google would use my _current_ location for Maps, Search etc while not storing
my _past_ locations. Their interface and messaging did not succeed in
dissuading me from this belief, despite the fact that I was explicitly looking
for messaging and settings related to protecting my privacy.

Was I naive to believe this was even possible in the first place? Probably. I
used to think Google were basically good guys, so I thought that when they
said something they actually meant it, and I was willing to forgive them for
minor mistakes and bad press. This is the first time I actually feel like
they've lied to me.

I'll be migrating my personal Google accounts elsewhere. Suggestions are
welcome for good alternatives, free/non-free/whatever, that offer effective
privacy controls.

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hashr8064
> Suggestions are welcome for good alternatives,

I'm in the move away myself. Here's some services I've started using, in many
areas I'm still looking for other replacements. Hopefully others can help.

1\. E-Mail : protonmail.com, I really like this one, great service.

2\. Video Calls : I'm currently using signal to some extent, not very happy
though, would really like something like Hangouts.

3\. Browser : Firefox

4\. Phone : Apple

5\. Things I'm still looking for : Google Calender, Drive, Chat, Backup
Storage services.

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distortedsignal
For video calls, you should try zoom.us. From what I've seen, they have the
best streaming infrastructure of any of the major players (FaceTime, Hangouts,
Webex, GoToMeeting). Apps for all the major platforms, too. The only bad thing
is that if you're on a multi-way call, they limit you to 40 minutes.

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chimeracoder
> The only bad thing is that if you're on a multi-way call, they limit you to
> 40 minutes.

To be clear, that's for the free version. You can pay to remove this limit
(along with getting some other features).

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goshx
From time to time I visit
[https://myactivity.google.com/myactivity](https://myactivity.google.com/myactivity)
and _every time_ I need to turn something off again.

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adtac
Here's a subset of what Google knows about you to tailor ads for you:
[https://adssettings.google.com/authenticated](https://adssettings.google.com/authenticated)

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goshx
I've had that off for a while. Now my ads on Gmail only offer me to date women
and men 60+.

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welder
This whole story is about the name "Location History" aka timeline being
confusing as people think it means a location tracking privacy setting while
it's actually a Google product name. Can we rename it to "Location History
product poorly named"?

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pacala
Can we rename it to "<Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC> product
poorly named"?

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prirun
I bought my first smartphone about 6 months ago - a BLU R2. Really like the
phone, and here's how I use it:

1\. I use puretalkusa.com's $20/month phone plan. It comes with 20MB of data
per month, then throttles.

2\. Disabled Cellular Data

3\. Disabled WIFI

4\. Never setup or signed in to my Google account from the phone.

5\. Disabled anything that gave me any pause about privacy, including Location
services.

6\. Covered the fingerprint reader with electrical tape.

And still, the other day my phone decided to reboot itself in the middle of
the day. I only know this because it played a little jingle. After the reboot,
Location services was enabled again. Hmm... I disabled it, but it made me
wonder if this wasn't some kind of forced reboot so someone could ping my
location. This has happened once before, in the middle of the night - a good
time to find out where someone lives.

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russellbeattie
"Turning off" location history == Don't show me my location history. It's not
like Google (or Apple) is going to actually stop tracking you.

I love showing iPhone users the section in Settings where all their location
history is. Most have no idea it's there.

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zepto
The iPhone location history is on your iPhone not at Apple.

And Apple doesn’t track you. They cycle identifiers regularly for exactly this
reason.

Spreading falsehoods about this being something everyone does is harmful
because it normalizes the abusive behavior from those that actually do.

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russellbeattie
In order for your location as given by GPS to be useful, a round trip to a
server is made to convert that information into a street address. This
geocoding could be done client side, but for practical purposes, it's not.
This is even moreso for additional external information mobiles use to better
locate you, such as known WiFi access points, "beacons" and cell tower IDs.

All of that server traffic is logged (by both Apple and your carrier), and can
be requested by law enforcement if needed. Regardless of what Apple marketing
and lawyers would like you to think, your phone is being tracked in real time,
always. Always.

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zepto
You are just guessing, right?

I’m aware of Apple’s geocoding service. It uses an encrypted connection, so
the server traffic is not ‘logged by your carrier’, and they use transient
identifiers so your location is not ‘logged by Apple’ and can’t be ‘requested
by law enforcement if needed’.

Carriers are a different matter, but don’t make stuff up about Apple.

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pasbesoin
People can stalk people. Beyond a certain threshold (defined by jurisdiction),
it's illegal.

Why wouldn't this apply to corporations? To (legal) _entity?_

Corporations and their lobbyists spend a lot of time, money, and effort
claiming they are "people". For example, with respect to their "free speech"
\-- meaning, lately, unlimited spending on political campaigns.

Well, ok then, I would propose that they can stalk, _like people._

Oh, but wait, there's the catch. They've already beaten me, with their
outsized pocketbooks, to the very people who would legally define this.

In the U.S., at least, the law is a _____. Pardon my, albeit self-censored,
decidedly improper language. But sometimes, crudeness is the rhetoric of
clarity -- in all its unpleasantness and offensiveness.

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herodotus
It is becoming too easy to pick on Google. There are many Web apps that use
location. BestBuy, just to pick one arbitrary example, will ask permission to
discover my location in order to show me my nearest stores. This is, of
course, very useful, and I am happy this service exists. What I do not know is
whether or not BestBuy or many other companies are sharing this information
with other companies. My assumption is that BestBuy et. al are using a
middleware web service, and that company probably makes money selling location
information to advertisers.

For me it is just depressingly hopless: as soon as I go on the Internet of
phone network, I have given up a lot of privacy.

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pnutjam
I think we have a different definition of "very useful". I find it intrusive
and routinely deny those requests. It's simple to pop my zip in a form to find
the nearest store.

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brookhaven_dude
What if I shut down the google maps app after every use (iphone)? Surely they
can't track after that.

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macintux
There are multiple layers here.

The current controversy is whether Google keeps a history of your location
data tied to your Google account when you ask them not to. It turns out there
are two different places they record it, so you have to disable both.

Separately there is the question of whether Google can get your location data
from your phone at all. On your iPhone, you can specify "Never", "While
using", or "Always" for Google Maps' access to your location.

If you specify "While using" and force quit the app, no, they can no longer
access your location.

I do not know for certain, but suspect, that if you use the home button or
multitouch gesture to leave Google Maps, it's still effectively being "used"
and thus can still access your location.

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RussianCow
The "while using" permission does allow apps to continue using your location
in the background, but you get a status indicator when that is the case.

Source: [https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT203033](https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203033)

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Jaruzel
To be fair this should be dropped from the front page, or merged with
yesterdays post.

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Jaruzel
Massively downvoted, seriously?

I didn't mean 'remove' from the front page, but merge it with the other post
and leave it in position on the front page... wow, you guys.

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l9k
Still don't understand why this story blowing out all of a sudden.

It's common knowledge that the biggest internet ad company likes your data and
wants it for its recommendation systems.

If you want to turn off Location History, which is a feature, a product in
itself, you can.

If you don't want your searches to be tracked, use another engine like
DuckDuckGo or Qwant. If you still want Google, you can disable the location
tracking. In addition, they provide a tool to see exactly what they store and
you can delete any entry.

Also, of course Maps will want to know your location, you can turn off your
GPS anyway. The only troubling point is the storage of the location at the
opening for no reason I don't know if you can disable this.

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pacala
The _title_ of the article says "Google tracks users who turn off location
history", and the article further develops the claim. Yes, Google offers the
option to "turn off Location History". No, turning off Location History
doesn't stop Google from tracking your location by other means. Google engages
in physical world surveillance against the express instructions of its users,
misleading them in the process.

Not cool.

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l9k
Google allows you to turn off the Location History feature AND allows you to
stop giving out your location.

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_jal
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. The setting was at the bottom of a locked
filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying
‘Beware of the Leopard.”

This is example #687 of why not to trust Google or any other surveillance
capitalist.

