
Spam unsubscribe links no longer considered harmful - blasdel
http://essays.dayah.com/spam-unsubscribe-not-harmful
======
jbyers
I just read the first 100 messages in my Gmail spam box. Five had unsubscribe
links that were highly suspicious -- misleading .ru domains and GET parameters
that could not possibly identify me. Four had links that were paired with US
addresses and worked. Three had seemingly legitimate links that led to broken
forms. The other 88 had no unsubscribe link in the body of the email.

I think the author's claim is correct. For emails that aren't patently absurd
and contain a mailing address, clicking unsubscribe links seems like a good
idea. Unfortunately for me, I'm stuck with the other 96%.

~~~
SoftwareMaven

      Unfortunately for me, I'm stuck with the other 96%.
    

I would say "Fortunately for me, Google is stuck with the rest."

About once a year, spammers find a way around Google's spam filters for 3-4
weeks, which means I might see a non-flagged spam message show up in my
mailbox every couple of days. Beyond that, I don't even think about spam
anymore (including worrying about false positives, which I haven't seen in
years [if at all]).

Above and beyond everything else positive or negative about Google, this one
thing will cause me to always have a warm place in my heart for Google.

~~~
SoftwareMaven
Ironically, I looked in my spam folder today just to see what percentage were
the ".ru" type and...found a message from Twitter that got delivered yesterday
saying how they are going to switch to OAuth on 8/31 (Really, twitter, a month
late? [and it wasn't Google, since I got the message for two accounts for two
email addresses yesterday]).

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prawn
(Half-baked thinking, so may or may not work.)

Anyone else wonder if unsubscribe links couldn't be shifted to the mail client
somehow? That way, they could be positioned in a uniform place and handled in
a simple way so that you didn't have to scrounge through an email footer
looking for the 5px unsub link, and then go through that horrible 'You need a
password to unsubscribe' process half the time.

I'm imagining an 'unsubscribe' button up near the top of the email, maybe
based on mail headers or something else, that just worked. You clicked it and
you were off the list. (Might need ways to verify the identity of the
subscriber, but I'd hope this could be handled better than it is now.)

~~~
miratrix
Gmail already does this - if you have the List-Unsubscribe header set up, when
someone clicks on the "Spam" button, it asks them whether they want to
unsubscribe as well. If they say "yes", an email gets sent to the unsubscribe
address with "Unsubscribe" as the subject.

~~~
prawn
I think I've seen that once (not a big Gmail user yet).

Would love to see it in all mail clients, and useful for all subscriptions. A
1998 RFC and a basic attempt from one webmail provider is a bit depressing in
2010 when most of us get hammered by these sorts of messages.

~~~
eli
The people who would comply with that header are the sort of people who
probably already had a very easy to find unsubscribe link.

~~~
prawn
I take your point, but that link is still down the bottom of a long newsletter
(that I already don't want to read), in small, faint type. And then half the
time, the unsubscribe process will involve a password, verification of the
email sent to (which often could be one of a few), or waiting for an 'are you
sure' link to be emailed.

I don't think I'm alone in refusing to believe that the processes here (and
all around email) couldn't be improved!

~~~
eli
Yup, that's fair. I think best practice in email design is to put the
unsubscribe at the top and bottom.

And I would point out that requiring a password or a verification email is
almost certainly a violation of CAN-SPAM.

------
ars
I would like to see a longer term test before I start doing this.

If the spam picks back up, it might not be worth the time.

~~~
brc
Right, because any anti-spam measures need to be measured over a longer time
frame to see if they have significantly reduced the spam.

That said, for me, spam is hardly a problem with the SpamBayes plugin for
Outlook. It does get a few false positives, but none that badly. A check every
few days catches anything. It also flags a lot of subscribed-for spam, which
is OK by me as I don't see why I need a monthly update on my frequent flyer
miles, something I can always go looking for.

------
eli
For all the many faults with CAN-SPAM, up to $16,000 per-message penalties for
failure to comply with an opt-out isn't such a terrible idea.

~~~
jrockway
Problem is, you can send mail to the US from outside of the US.

(Spam isn't about being relevant, it's about volume. Even if you can't
actually buy the product being advertised, you still have to delete the mail.
So while this is a little helpful, it's doesn't really make much difference in
spam volume.)

~~~
mike-cardwell
And you can send mail from the US to outside the US. CAN-SPAM is irrelevant to
most of the World. I actually have a score in my spam filter for email bodys
matching /\bCAN-SPAM\b/i as emails claiming to be "CAN-SPAM compliant" are
almost always junk.

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Chirael
Unfortunately, since the messages sent by spammers that "came into the light"
(good spammers?) and by those who did not are so similar, even legitimate
unsubscribe links are effectively too risky.

Just like with the failure micropayments (see
<http://openp2p.com/pub/a/p2p/2000/12/19/micropayments.html>), it just
requires too much mental analysis to make an educated guess about whether an
unsubscribe link is legit, versus confirming my address as "working" and
increasing its use by other spammers (e.g., inclusion in sold lists of
"verified working email accounts").

Due to the confusion, I have to fall back on the KISS rule: When in doubt, do
not provide my email address, or the fact that my email address is a working
one, to someone I don't know (or who just spammed me, no matter how much "in
the light" they may seem to be).

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photon_off
Since forcing me to sign up and give my credit card info to download _free_
apps, Apple has been regularly sending me spam. The opt-out link is a 404.

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gregable
So little spam makes it through to my inbox that it seems like this approach
would take more time than it is going to save. Interesting observation though.

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stackthat
They never were, it was a myth.

------
ronnier
Edit: Site's back up.

~~~
Lucent
Works fine for me.

~~~
ronnier
Yup, works now.

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taigeair
groupon has become spammy to me

