

Curebit’s at it again, stealing more than code this time - benjlang
http://venturebeat.com/2012/01/30/curebit-random-rab/

======
pg
Not to diminish this problem, but do the people upvoting this realize how
pwned they are by these journalists? The journalists know (1) HN is a giant
pipe of page views, and (2) any story they write with new revelations about
some misdeed by Curebit will be reflexively upvoted by enough users to rise
high on the frontpage. And so they write said story, people upvote it as
predicted, and this fluff is our news for the day.

I usually err on the side of not killing stories criticizing startups we'd
funded, but if this was about a startup we didn't fund I'd kill it in a
second. (Though of course I wouldn't have to, because few would upvote such a
story, which means no journalist would bother writing it.) So I'm going to
bury it. I'd rather seem like I'm censoring bad news about startups we funded
than let Venturebeat fill HN with crap like this.

~~~
tptacek
Please, then, don't be selective: ban the site. You ban lots of other sites.
Venues that "pwn" HN shouldn't be allowed space on the front page. If they
write something uncharacteristically excellent, someone is sure to blog it,
and that person can collect the pageviews.

Also, Venturebeat is far from the worst offender. At least they (ostensibly)
have reporters.

~~~
dpritchett
Here's my favorite O'Dell article, from last March:
<http://mashable.com/2011/03/10/node-js/>

I'm not going to say that her having written a decent article a year ago
confers a ton of respectability on VentureBeat but it's not _all_ bad.

~~~
tptacek
The "bad" at Venturebeat (and Torrentfreak and Techdirt) outweighs the good,
even before you consider that a bad story is more harmful to HN than a good
story is helpful.

On those occasions where Venturebeat gets it right, someone will inevitably
blog it. The blog posts won't get banned. People will find out about the
article. Meanwhile, Venturebeat has that much less incentive to directly troll
HN.

I have zero illusions that Venturebeat is going to get banned. The incentives
are wrong for Paul Graham. Venturebeat writes more positive stuff about YC
companies than negative stuff. But if Graham is serious about Venturebeat
trolling the site --- which it clearly does, all the time --- he shouldn't be
choosy about pushing back on it.

------
asdf333
Hi everyone,

One of the curebit cofounders here. We spoke with the artist as soon as we got
his message and began discussion to get the music licensed on Sunday. (Its
possible Jolie O'Dell had some stale news as it was posted monday).

As of an hour ago, we have come to an agreement on acceptable licensing terms
with Random Rab for the music we used, and an apology.

<https://twitter.com/#!/randomrab/status/164070854433570817>

We've been combing through our assets and code to make sure we have all the
appropriate licenses (and obtaining/replacing) for any assets we do not. It
may take some time to get through everything, but this is our first priority.

Meanwhile, if you'd like to bring anything to our attention, please let us
know at support@curebit.com. We'll act on it promptly.

~~~
bootload
_"... As of an hour ago, we have come to an agreement on acceptable licensing
terms with Random Rab for the music we used, and an apology. ..."_

It's not that you stuff up that matters, but how you recover. A tick in my
book.

------
sudonim
This is a tough situation for Curebit. People are now looking for a pattern of
behavior, and unfortunately for them, they're finding it. The company hasn't
been given the opportunity to change their behavior. Should they? If you find
a spouse cheating, should a history and pattern of dishonesty be ignored
because they say "I didn't know it was wrong"?

I think the lesson here is to behave with the same integrity and respect for
other people's work before funding as you would when you're a big and
successful company.

~~~
dangoldin
It's a matter of degree. It's somewhat similar to the GoDaddy support of
SOPA/PIPA and reversing their position after the online protests. On one hand
they reversed their position but on the other they supported the shitty
legislation in the first place.

How should GoDaddy be treated?

------
gravitronic
So during the SOPA protests the HN comment threads had a lot of people stating
that copyright should be abolished, or that IP theft is a market failure,
torrenting should be legal, etc, etc, etc...

I'm guessing those people are also against Curebit doing what it's done? Is
there a rallying cry of "HTML is easy to steal and therefore it's a market
problem and not Curebit's fault since it is so easy"?

I'm not saying it's a 100% parallel, but you see can see it. One one hand we
have "IP theft is ok" and on the other "IP thieves! Get them!"

I know the difference is Curebit's potential profit motivations vs. "I'm a
movie collector who wouldn't have bought these overpriced DVDs", but the irony
is still present given the close timing between the two events.

~~~
drostie
I think it's important to scope the word "against" here. When one is "against"
copyright, one is usually against extortion-esque tactics and expensive
punitive judgments from courts against individuals in a campaign of
intimidation. That's not really at play here, even discounting "potential
profit motivations." There's just no threat of a lawsuit, and so that's
probably why they'll be reasonably quiet on this article.

If you're a comedian, there is a professional artistic courtesy that you do
not steal another comedian's joke -- that if you do, then you are "taking
credit" for something which you did not produce. It strikes me that this is
the same sort of irritation. The corporations who get mad that you've been
seeding the Bourne movies on BitTorrent don't pretend to any sort of
_artistic_ outrage, and if they did it would be absurd, because you're
faceless and not claiming to any sort of artistic innovation. But we're quite
clear, I think, on the fact that (a) they're executives, (b) the government
gave them a monopoly on copying these films, and (c) they're upset because
end-users didn't care about the monopoly and shared anyway.

Given all that, I'm not sure I find the discrepancy particularly ironic.
Actually, I think I'd more or less expect it -- if only because developers
have clear human faces, while the RIAA's lawyers and executives do not.

------
memset
One advantage that YC-funded startups have over everyone else starting
businesses on the side is the coverage. Lots of eyeballs to admire and try out
your work, give feedback, etc, without having to spam your twitter feed or beg
family to try out your prototype yet again.

The flipside of starting a business under the limelight is the tabloid-like
press that you get, which seems to intensify if you're YC, because a lot of
people with seriously great hacker cred have basically personally endorsed
your company and its people.

This is a good thing; it gives folks the chance to be a business on a hill and
display exemplary ethical practices.

It is _not okay_ for any business entity to break copyright law, and if one
has found themselves to be in error (people make mistakes) then one must
immediately remedy the situation. This applies to all businesses, and YC
companies happen to be under the microscope.

So take advantage of the enviable perks of having press and use the limelight
as an opportunity to show stellar maturity and ethical behavior!

------
rockarage
For those of you who think people are piling on, understand that things could
be much worse. They are company operating USA where copyright infringement is
illegal, punishable by a fine and/or jail time. They can also be sued in court
and cost the investors thousands on dollars. An internet mob lashing is not
their biggest problem, a lack of integrity is.

------
cageyjames
Could be a rough couple weeks for Curebit. Clearly the Internets is going to
go through all their work with a fine tooth comb. I doubt any company could be
100% sure they haven't used non-licensed materials.

That said, Curebit seems to have a bit of a problem on their hands. Smoke,
meet fire...

------
benjlang
Curebit's demo video was created in 2010 so it's not as if they went about
using the music illegally after the previous incident. Random Rab tweeted the
founder of Curebit yesterday, he deserves some time. This seems like a hatred
campaign...

~~~
evo_9
How does the fact that they did this in the past make it any better? This just
shows that their lack of judgment isn't a recent issue, or a fluke.

This looks terrible because it is terrible.

~~~
benjlang
The fact that they're being put under the microscope for everything they've
done is unfair. They deserve time to change and improve. After all Random Rab
only tweeted them yesterday, for all we know once the founder of Curebit sees
it he will remove the video. Haven't even given him a chance.

------
patrickod
I'm not trying to excuse this but I don't believe Curebit are the only startup
to have ever done something similar. As benjlang said it seems a bit more like
directed hatred.

------
johnrob
An internet company did something wrong. We'll make them pay by boosting their
google page rank.

~~~
nicksergeant
Not all PR is good PR: <http://cl.ly/1p0D1i1J3U133f0R3G1i>

------
diegogomes
Man, their new investors will go crazy. 2 scandals, just a few days after
landing new funding...

------
pekinb
The glee with which people are piling criticism on these guys is disturbing.

------
sheldonh
Quite a few people expressed confusion around the strength of emotion with
which people were reacting.

One part of the answer is that the software company and the artist that
Curebit stole from are _both_ darlings with strong fandoms.

I know I wouldn't have cared if they'd stolen from Oracle Corporation and The
Jonas Brothers.

------
natep
Why is this a story? 4 clicks, and the artist can report the video on Youtube.
Flagged.

------
nathanpc
Here we go again...

------
ldn_tech_exec
this is boring now. leave them alone

------
shareme
a solution, investors need to fire Grant's ass immediately..

------
huhtenberg
Oh, common. This is getting ridiculous now. This is just some random people
jumping on a free PR wagon while it rolls. It's neither interesting nor it's
news. Flagged.

(edit) Feel free to downvote, but do tell me - do you really think this
belongs to the front page of HN? And do you not think this looks even a little
bit like a group bashing now?

