
Oculus Rift S - Stefan-H
https://www.oculus.com/rift-s/
======
mikenew
They really phoned it in on this one. No physical IPD adjustment, an 80hz LCD
rather than the 90hz OLED, a very marginal resolution increase to 1280×1440
(which is still less than the $200 WMR headset I bought almost two years ago),
and no FOV increase. The move to inside-out tracking means a more convenient
setup, but it _will_ lose tracking when you put your hands behind you (like
shooting a bow, which just about ruins Skyrim VR)[1].

Small wonder Brendan Iribe left Facebook over this[2]. They clearly want to
push their more casual all-in-one headsets and don't care much about the
enthusiasts and gamers that helped get Oculus off the ground in the first
place. Really hope Valve steps up this year with a decent headset + the
Knuckles controllers. Nothing wrong with building headsets for the more casual
consumers but why can't _someone_ release a decent gen 2 headset with the
upgrades that everyone has been wanting.

1: [https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/03/hands-on-with-the-
new...](https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/03/hands-on-with-the-
new-399-oculus-rift-s-more-pixels-zero-cameras-better-fit/)

2: [https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/279364-oculus-
rift-2-canc...](https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/279364-oculus-
rift-2-canceled-co-founder-leaves-facebook)

EDIT: After a little more reading it looks like the Quest (their equally
priced all-in-one headset) has a higher resolution and a physical IPD
adjustment. What the hell are you even paying for with this? You get a worse
headset for the same price that lacks all the onboard hardware?

~~~
Ajedi32
On the other hand, there are a lot of things that were improved:

\- Slightly higher resolution (1080×1200 per-eye -> 1,280×1,440 per-eye)

\- Inside-out tracking

\- Guardian can be set up via video passthrough

\- More comfortable halo head strap (better weight distribution, more surface
area)

\- Wider lens sweet spot

\- Fewer god rays (better lenses)

\- Less pronounced screen door effect (better lenses, RGB-stripe subpixel
layout)

\- Low-latency stereo-corrected video passthrough (Passthrough+)

\- Headphone jack

\- Slightly longer cable (4m -> 5m)

Not a huge upgrade of course, but that's probably why they called it the Rift
S and not the Rift 2.

~~~
mikenew
I'm not saying you're wrong, but we're on year 3 of this brand new tech and
it's "kinda better, kinda worse". Think about the iPhone in 2007 vs 2010. They
can call it whatever they like; it's still an utter disappointment, at least
to a gamer like myself. If we're going to get to a point where VR actually
feels like virtual reality then _someone_ is going to have to push the
envelope, and it clearly isn't going to be Facebook.

~~~
SebastianKra
The gameplay-experience isn't what is holding VR back. VR was good enough 3
years ago.

Price, PC-Specs, and ridiculously complicated setups are the reason, why VR
hasn't taken off yet. The Rift-S helps with all of those issues.

It makes some smart tradeoffs, so that it is accessible to more people.

~~~
Judgmentality
> The gameplay-experience isn't what is holding VR back. VR was good enough 3
> years ago.

This is wrong. All of the other things you mention matter, but at the end of
the day I _cannot_ buy a compelling VR experience at any price. VR itself
still needs to be improved before all of those other things matter.

VR is incredibly underwhelming at this point, regardless of price. I'd say
it's still a few years away from being good enough I'd want to buy it, and I'd
expect to have to pay over $1000 for that pleasure when the time comes
(ignoring the cost of the top-of-the-line gaming PC to accompany it).

And that's only talking about the actual technology in the headset, that's not
even discussing the lack of good content.

And many (maybe most) people still get sick when using VR for more than an
hour, so the argument it's "good enough" is absurd.

~~~
ricardobeat
What have you tried so far? I bought myself a Rift during the last Black
Friday and am very pleased. BeatSaber and Eleven Table Tennis alone make it
worth.

~~~
Judgmentality
I tried the Oculus Rift at Facebook HQ with all of the fancy dongles,
including things I'm not allowed to talk about.

I've also tried the regular HTC Vive.

Both felt like a gimmick, and the Vive made my girlfriend nauseous after a few
minutes.

I'm a big believer in the potential of VR, but the current options do not
impress me. I think it's still a few years away for someone like me, and still
another 5+ years where it starts to become mainstream (largely due to cost and
lack of content).

~~~
JabavuAdams
VR Dev since 2014, here.

The content is what makes people sick, not the hardware (these days). I
haven't gotten sick in VR since Rift DK2. Been using the Vive since. No
sickness in The Lab. Recently tried playing Everest VR -- queasy due to lots
of flying, slow camera movement. Apollo 11 was a lot better, but still had
some iffy swooping camera moves.

Basically, you can not make the same kind of game for VR that you would for
non-VR, but developers keep trying and they end up making players sick.

Finally, there's a problem with maximizers vs. satisficers and VR. I would say
that it's not about comparing specs and buying the "best" device -- although
maybe that's a problem of price point. Instead of looking for flaws, allow
yourself to suspend disbelief. This requires good content.

Every single game and experience in Valve's "The Lab" is excellent. On Rift,
Robo Recall is excellent. Very few games reach this level of polish (graphics,
audio, HCI).

Look at the original Star Wars (A New Hope). The special FX are shite by
today's standards. If we were just to compare bullet points of features, it
would be garbage. Let yourself be transported.

~~~
fjabre
People get sick mostly because of the neurological issues associated with
keeping eyes focused on objects at fixed lengths even though they are
perceived as far away in the VR world.

Vergence-accommodation conflict:

[https://medium.com/vrinflux-dot-com/vergence-
accommodation-c...](https://medium.com/vrinflux-dot-com/vergence-
accommodation-conflict-is-a-bitch-here-s-how-to-design-around-it-87dab1a7d9ba)

~~~
JabavuAdams
If this were true, why can I stay in The Lab for hours, but I get sick in
Everest VR in minutes, on the same hardware? Why did the dozens of VR devs I
have talked to get sick on 2014-2015 hardware, playing tech-demos, but they
don't on 2018 hardware, playing games designed for comfort?

Also, lack of positional sensing (versus angular) on mobile VR devices is a
much bigger contributor to discomfort.

I'm not sure why you're so keen on vergence accommodation, but it seems that
you're focusing on a tiny effect, when the large effects are known.

Just because there's little in the peer-reviewed literature, does not mean
that this is poorly understood by practitioners.

~~~
fjabre
I come from a neuroscience background hence my bias. It's the fundamental way
in which we focus on objects in the real world. It is not functioning normally
at all with a headset on.

No one Ive met can stay in VR for hours regardless of game. Most of my friends
who have tried or have VR devices get sick after 45 minutes. Admittedly they
are not VR enthusiasts or hard core gamers however.

~~~
BubRoss
That sounds pretty anecdotal for a scientist.

~~~
fjabre
Not a scientist. I'm a developer who has been working in the neuroscience
field for 15 years, specifically with brain stimulation devices.

I'm not saying this qualifies as any sort of degree nor was I saying you
should count my anecdotes as facts.

It is simply my belief that the vergence-accommodation conflict needs to be
solved before VR will be adopted by the masses. I think vergence-accommodation
neurological process should stay coupled as it does in nature to provide a
completely natural feeling and non strained experience for the user. The
research here is scant. Perhaps someone is aware of some ongoing research on
this topic.

------
jdietrich
Announced a day after the HP Reverb, which has most of the features of the
Rift S but 2160x2160 per eye.

[https://www.roadtovr.com/hp-rever-hands-on-impressions-
pixel...](https://www.roadtovr.com/hp-rever-hands-on-impressions-pixel-packed-
new-bar-for-windows-vr-headsets/)

~~~
Ajedi32
It's also $200 more than the Rift S and only has 2 tracking cameras instead of
5. Not a bad product by any means, but unless resolution is your main concern
I wouldn't consider it superior to the Rift S.

~~~
driverdan
Resolution is more important than the other changes on the Rift S.

~~~
krisroadruck
This. Until I can read text on the thing VR feels DOA. I got the original rift
and it now sits in my closet collecting dust because the resolution is about
1/2 or maybe even 1/4th of what it needs to be to really be compelling. They
need to up the resolution, figure out foveated rendering, improve the FoV and
get me some dang gloves or at least a VR-ready keyboard (can see the thing in
vr like you see the hand controllers). I care about these things far more than
ditching the cord, inside out tracking (I'm not sure I want 5 cameras looking
at everything in my room any time I am strapped in) or anything else.

------
JabavuAdams
I've been a VR dev since 2014, and market-share / adoption is a huge problem.

To a first approximation, you can not make enough money to run a studio in VR,
even 5 years after DK1.

Ontario, Canada has a great system of grants for game developers, but they
have basically stopped funding VR titles, because they don't make any money.

All of the people I know who went off to found VR studios are trying to
survive on service work, rather than making custom IP. Either that, or working
as loss-leader departments in larger companies.

It's worse than indie development, if such a thing were possible.

So ... yeah ... bring on the users while there are still some VR developers
left.

~~~
jron
I know sim racing is somewhat of a niche industry but the demand for high end
VR is absolutely there:

NoVRNoBuy was pretty much the only regular comment you would see when
Codemaster's was hyping Dirt Rally 2.0

So much so that this is the changelog from Assetto Corsa's latest release:

Assetto Corsa Competizione - Early Access v0.2 \- Fixed "No VR no buy" ... [1]

There are about 100 threads on Dirt Rally 2.0 echoing the same [2]

This is a community that spends $500 on a steering wheel and $500-$1000 pedals
are always out of stock [3][4]

That doesn't even include the $1000 direct drive wheels [5][6] or the
handbrakes, shifters, triple mount displays, and $500-1000 dollar rigs [7] I
won't even get into the motion rigs...

[1]
[https://steamcommunity.com/games/805550/announcements/detail...](https://steamcommunity.com/games/805550/announcements/detail/1700564528976573193)

[2]
[https://steamcommunity.com/app/690790/discussions/0/17354661...](https://steamcommunity.com/app/690790/discussions/0/1735466157769817790/)

[3] [https://heusinkveld.com/heusinkveld-march-stock-
update/?v=75...](https://heusinkveld.com/heusinkveld-march-stock-
update/?v=7516fd43adaa)

[4] [https://www.protosimtech.com/](https://www.protosimtech.com/)

[5] [https://www.fanatec.com/us-en/wheel-bases/podium-wheel-
base-...](https://www.fanatec.com/us-en/wheel-bases/podium-wheel-base-
dd1-usa.html)

[6]
[https://augurysimulations.com/products/](https://augurysimulations.com/products/)

[7] [https://sim-lab.eu/product/p1-chassis/](https://sim-
lab.eu/product/p1-chassis/)

------
legitster
As a current Rift owner, this seems like a bit of a lateral upgrade: \- IPD is
fixed. \- LCD display \- Can't track hands behind you \- Narrower FoV

It seems this is comparable to the many WMR headsets already in the market. I
would hope that the simpler design helps bring down the price though, I could
see this overall being cheaper to manufacturer.

~~~
zamalek
> Can't track hands behind you

This is a personal deal-breaker. The rest I can live with.

I get it. There's much less hardware involved, there's much lower
manufacturing costs, those savings can be passed down to the consumer,
bringing us closer to that hypothetical VR mainstream moment. I agree we need
more headsets with this technology.

I've "grown up" with full tracking, though, and I'm used to it. It adds an
additional layer of presence. I hope we don't get stuck with this downgrade on
_all_ future devices. Add Sixense to inside-out tracking and I'd be outright
sold.

That being said, I already own the Vive with its lighthouses, so I wonder if I
could use the Vive controllers with inside-out tracking HMDs. I guess that all
depends on how much drift inside-out tracking suffers from, and how feasible
it is to calibrate the two platforms.

~~~
CraftThatBlock
Using 3 sensors you can track full 360°, it works very well with my setup

~~~
CraftThatBlock
By bad, I just saw that the trackers are now built-in. I wonder if they will
allow adding additional sensors.

------
notus
Higher resolution and built in tracking and only 400. Probably going to buy.
Someone convince me not to

~~~
smacktoward
Is there actually any software compelling enough to make the hardware worth
the expense? After the wave of interest that followed the release of the
original Rift petered out, most developers seem to have dropped VR like a hot
rock...

~~~
Sohcahtoa82
If you like playing Poker, PokerStars VR is a blast. It's free (There's not
even an option to pay money, and you only play with fake money)

I've spent over 100 hours in it. Having the player interaction makes it so
fun. Desktop online poker just feels like playing with bots.

------
asciimo
I would love to trade all these monitors for a virtual workstation. Every time
there's new VR tech I hope that it's possible. 1280x1440 is definitely an
improvement. I'm patient.

~~~
Ajedi32
I think if you're looking for a monitor replacement you're going to need to
wait for foveated rendering. That's when you'll start seeing mainstream
headsets with ultra-high-PPD displays. Maybe another ~4 years or so.

~~~
jimrandomh
Not actually needed. Getting high enough res to replace monitors with small
fonts does require a big increase in resolution, _but_ rendering a virtual
desktop requires a lot less computation per pixel than rendering a game with
lighting and shading. Current-generation consumer GPUs should be sufficient,
if the panels and optics get good enough.

~~~
Ajedi32
Yeah, but you're not going to be seeing a big push for higher PPD displays
until after all the other pieces are in place to support that technology for
gaming. The market for monitor replacements isn't big enough to drive that
kind of change all on its own.

~~~
keerthiko
I think this market is hugely undervalued. As remote work gets normalized,
remote workspaces will draw increasing investment to regain some of the
fidelity of meatspace but with the efficiency and cost savings of remote work,
and VR is poised to be central to this industry as soon as someone builds the
tools.

~~~
hombre_fatal
Sounds like a dystopian nightmare where VR goggles becomes the new ass-in-
seat.

~~~
keerthiko
Completely possible and likely, but it's also possible to build a workplace
culture where VR just replaces video calls and screenshare presentations with
people huddling around a virtual conference desk and being able to pair
program or show each other their screens, for an hour or two at a time instead
of 8 hour office workdays.

------
StillBored
Hmm, I have a hard time understanding what advantage these all in one devices
have over the various VR lens devices for random phones.

That said i'm not really impressed with the basic rift device I have. Mostly
because the core software seems like garbage. The first blue screens I've seen
in over a decade were caused by it. Then there are all the non fatal problems
like the fact that the software apparently wasn't tested on machines that go
into standby regularly. Then there are the weird USB discovery issues the
hardware/software has (the software wants everything plugged into different
controller ports but can't seem to figure out the USB topology correctly 1/2
the time, meaning sometimes it works then it decides not to work unless the
machine is rebooted/etc).

I would say it generally works better than some of the stuff I used in the
90's but the resolution is strangely lacking given the price of the thing and
other devices on the market.

So that said, the core problem of VR making people nauseous definitely hasn't
been solved with the basic rift. Pretty much everyone I've demoed it to gets
sick on games/demos which involve first person perspective. OTOH, there are
some pretty cool 3rd person games (witchblood, moss, etc).

~~~
chillacy
You have to try a 6DOF system, it’s a totally different ballgame.

~~~
droussel
I don't know much about all those and I experienced VR (other then the Avatar
movie) for the first time this weekend at my friend's place on his PSVR. I
really enjoyed Moss and still felt ok after about 45 minutes. I tried a kind
of light sim demo with crappy 1995 looking graphics afterward and I thought I
was about to vomit 2-3 times while "flying".

Anyway, what would be the difference between the PSVR and a 6DOF system?

------
jron
John Carmack and his friends made it clear that they have no interest in the
PC being a first class VR platform when they tossed Brendan Iribe to the curb.
The Rift-s is a big fuck you to all of the hardcore early adopters that made
the Rift a reality.

I skipped gen-1 thinking gen-2 was right around the corner; unfortunately,
three long years later the future truly looks like a "race to the bottom." VR
is starting to feel like a cheap trick instead of something that promised the
future of gaming - a toy that just collects dust on the shelf after playing a
handful of crap mobile games.

The state of the industry from my perspective:

1\. The VR industry seems to think PC gaming is dead

2\. Oculus hasn't released better HMD in three years:

\- Worse inside out tracking despite the need to be tethered to a PC anyway

\- A downgraded refresh rate of 80hz after claiming 120hz was the sweet spot

\- A single panel and a downgrade from OLED to LCD with no ability for IPD
adjustment

\- Is outsourcing work from Lenovo instead of doing in-house RND

\- Scrapped headphones despite saying it was a critical feature of the OG rift

\- Rumored to have a slightly worse FOV than the OG Rift's already small FOV

\- Attempting to roll their own walled garden store

\- Owned by Facebook

3\. HTC hasn't released a marginally better headset in three years:

\- Lenses are garbage despite the better display

\- Future headsets are adopting inside out tracking despite it having worse
performance than lighthouse

\- Owned by HTC

\- Terrible support

\- Attempting to roll their own walled garden store

4\. Pimax doesn't seem to have the manufacturing or support chops to deliver
despite knowing exactly what the hardcore PC gamer wants

5\. Valve can't seem to release anything - ever.

What a shit show.

~~~
dmix
People get so angry whenever VR is brought up.

Are there not other companies besides Oculus to serve the higher-end VR
market? What's wrong with a company focusing on a mainstream market?

The waste of talent?

~~~
CobrastanJorji
Well, HP's new version of the Reverb jumped to a 2160x2160 per-eye resolution.

If Pimax can get their shit together, the 4K resolution and ridiculous FOV is
promising.

I think the ultimate problem is that the higher-end market isn't willing to
spend what it would require to build a sufficiently-good headset right now,
nor are there many home gaming computers that can realistically pump 8+K low
latency, high FPS graphics. There are many millions of people who might spend
$500 on a standalone headset that is good enough to play beat saber, though.

~~~
jron
The market for a high end HMD is pretty much anyone that already has no
problem spending $1,000 on a video card. That is a lot of us but it isn't big
enough for a company like Facebook or HTC. My fear is pushing crap at $500
instead of gold at $900 will leave a stigma on VR that will take another
decade or more to wash off.

The reverb actually looks great but the tracking is a flop.

~~~
ineedasername
I think of the kid factor. My kids can't tell the difference between the gear
VR, PSVR, and high end setup. Or they just don't care. All they want are fun
games. That leaves the gear VR for things like rollercoaster sims and 360 pov
video of the same, and PSVR for Beat Saber and Job Simulator. No interest in
the high end gold level setups

------
adpirz
For those with VR headsets of any kind: how often are you using it? Are we
there yet with VR? If not, is it the hardware, the content, or both?

For now, I'd define "there" as at least 0.5 * time spent on console or PC
gaming per week.

~~~
arthurcolle
Tracking is a joke with the Rift v1 (consumer version). Decent for a few hours
and then randomly everything gets all screwed up, requiring a tracking reset
which sometimes doesn’t even fix the issue. It’s way too involved to set up,
and even following the instructions it takes sometimes 20 minutes to finally
get the tracking sensors synced with the controllers and your System. I found
that really frustrating and made it prohibitive for anything other than
killing time. Furthermore, for some reason it always makes me set it up from
scratch even if I haven’t unplugged the three different USBs (2x tracking, and
one for the headset) needed to get the whole thing operational since the last
use.

Echo VR is super super fun to play, as one concrete example, but I’d say the
Rift is still not good enough other than as a toy to show off to people. The
driver updates are also absurdly huge. I didn’t use it for a month and I had a
14gb driver download (pretty sure it wasn’t any game/app updates)

We are far away from VR being even in the comparable to general purpose
“everyday” computing IMO.

~~~
wilg
Something is definitely wrong with your setup. You should not experience any
noticeable tracking errors on current hardware.

Some combination of a bug, strange setup, or bad environment is going on here.
Maybe you have a large mirror or pane of glass around your setup? Lots of
things can go wrong.

------
babaeth
I think it's very clear that Oculus engineering efforts are dedicated to
standalone devices like Quest rather than PC VR headsets. Which makes sense if
you want to get 1 billion people using VR.

------
akhilcacharya
I'm glad inside-out tracking is becoming the norm. Significantly easier to
setup and still had pretty good performance (although on the 2-camera Windows
MR models you can't reach behind your back but whatever).

I think Windows MR is significantly underrated just for this fact. My question
is, should I get this or just buy the Samsung HMD today?

------
JoshTriplett
I really wish _one_ of these VR headsets allowed direct use as a display
without their special drivers, and provided tracking data without using their
SDK.

~~~
Sandvich
That's an option, but then we wouldn't have nice things like Asynchronous
Timewarp / Spacewarp unless we want to shift the burden of doing that onto the
rendering application. As someone who worked in VR before the Compositor was a
thing, I welcome it with open arms. It's just easier for everybody.

That said, it'd be nice if you didn't have to log into some account to make it
happen.

~~~
JoshTriplett
> but then we wouldn't have nice things like Asynchronous Timewarp / Spacewarp
> unless we want to shift the burden of doing that onto the rendering
> application.

Or onto common libraries and frameworks. And I can live without such features
until then; if I don't use the SDK and I miss a feature that's in the SDK,
that's on me.

> It's just easier for everybody.

Except people building Open Source VR applications.

~~~
andybak
There's Monado: [https://monado.dev/](https://monado.dev/)

------
zone411
More info [https://uploadvr.com/oculus-rift-s-
official/](https://uploadvr.com/oculus-rift-s-official/),
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vtryRHVg_I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vtryRHVg_I).
Lower refresh rate, LCD screen, no foveated rendering seem disappointing.

------
davidhyde
A significant portion of people (most maybe?) who are interested in this would
like to see the specs and not some Apple inspired dumbed down web page with
little actual substance about the product. Even apple gives you prominent
access to tech specs. This page tries to get your email address three times.
Very poor.

------
an4rchy
One of the biggest barriers to consumer adoption of VR seems to be the cost.

Is there a reason why it doesn't make sense for the manufacturers to do a
subscription service? Seems like everything from phones and consoles to game
streaming subscriptions is the trend (and makes sense).

If nothing else, it can help increase distribution and awareness -- at the end
of the day, more people using the devices is probably gonna kick off more
content creation and economies of scale to produce cheaper/better hardware.

Thoughts?

~~~
pradn
I doubt if there's a strong market for VR even if a great headset was $50. Do
people who are not enthusiasts really want to immerse themselves like this? A
good chunk of the population doesn't seem interested even in game consoles. I
imagine a subset of them are interested in VR gaming. Outside of VR gaming,
there's little mainstream content designed for VR.

~~~
andybak
Potentially the audience for VR could be bigger than the audience for consoles
as it opens up entire categories of non-gaming applications. Experiential,
narrative, educational, social etc.

I've had very positive responses to VR from people that have never had any
interest in traditional gaming.

Of course - whether this interest could be translated to purchase is a
different question. Ease of use and cost would help as would a wide and
diverse library of mainstream content.

I think a good stepping stone would be pervasive VR in schools, libraries,
galleries etc. to get people accustomed to the medium.

~~~
dwighttk
Except for experiential, why aren't those categories already open on consoles?

~~~
gpm
Marketing?

Because consoles offer literally nothing over desktops for that, and schools,
libraries, etc already have desktops?

~~~
dwighttk
true... what does VR offer in those categories over desktops?

~~~
gpm
Better IO?

There's almost certainly educational value in being able to view (and
sometimes interact) with a 3d model of a cell/organ/body/physics simulation/3d
chemical model/...

~~~
dwighttk
it's different... not sure it's better.

------
ledzep2
I'm thinking Rift S has an awkward position. It's not a gen 2 for those who
already jumped in for Rift. So no buying there. It doesn't lower the bars for
those who hasn't jumped in as neither headsets or graphics cards are getting
cheaper. Then where is the market share?

Maybe a trade-in program could work. For the rift owners they get the upgrade
for a discount. Then for the newcomers, certified pre-owned Rifts for a low
price.

~~~
ledzep2
I guess Rift S has lower manufacturing cost because it can share some parts
with upcoming Quest. The same tracking, the same controllers. And since they
are already heading in that direction, personally I'm curious to know the
possibility of combining Quest and Rift S, or PC and standalone VR. My guts
tell me it's possible. I'm excited about the idea of two in one VR, with which
I can watch a movie in bed before sleep, or show it to friends at their
places', and plug in a PC to play a full blown action game. Two headsets and
two sets of controllers are really too much for these purposes. I don't mind
two libraries of games/apps though. Windows 10 and XBox One are already
sharing content. It should be possible for VR too.

------
bubbabojangles
I invested in a HTC Vive Pro when it came out, it's looking to be a good
investment as these Gen 2 (I should say Gen 1.6) VR HMDs are pretty lack
luster. Pair it with the Wireless Adapter, it would be difficult for me to
change to inside out tracking and move back to a wired connection. Granted,
I've sold some internal organs and first born child to obtain all of these
things.

------
sethammons
I've used a Vive once (a guy at work brought one in). Little sensors at the
corners of the room, headset, hand grips. It was really neat. How does this
rank next to Vive? I've been thinking of getting one (my kids would love the
3-d "drawing" app I tried). I have a good PC, should I be looking at getting
the Rift S? A Vive? Any suggestions would be great. Thanks!

~~~
FeralAlien
I worked in a VR lab at my university for a year before graduating so I got to
experiment with a bunch of the current headsets (no Rift S though since it was
just announced obviously).

My personal take away is if you are going for the maximum immersion, have
space and the money, go with the Vive or Vive Pro. The Rift (likely applies to
Rift S as well since they are so similar) was more comfortable than the Vive
for me at least and I liked the controllers more but the tracking quality was
not as solid especially in even medium sized rooms. The visual quality on the
Oculus is not quite where the Vive is either. Additionally the Vive is a
pretty open platform so there are lots of third party accessories you can play
with (once again if you can stomach the costs). I love using Vive trackers on
my feet to track my foot motion so I could run in place in games to move. That
kind of ecosystem doesn’t exist for Oculus. Additionally Valve will likely
release new controllers soon with full finger tracking (and then you could use
your old controllers as Vive trackers)

~~~
corysama
The [https://www.vive.com/us/vive-deluxe-audio-
strap/](https://www.vive.com/us/vive-deluxe-audio-strap/) makes a significant
difference in the comfort of the Vive. But, it's still not at comfortable as
the Rift because of the momentum caused by the front weight.

Between the cost and the PSVR-style hard headstrap (big improvement in
comfort) I'd recommend the Rift-S strongly for consumers even though the Vive
Pro is preferable for researchers.

------
holoduke
If money is not an issue and you like cockpit games then currently the pimaxvr
4k is the best. Highest fov and highest resolution.

~~~
corysama
The Pimax 5K+ is winning all of the image sharpness reviews. The Pimax
software is not winning any awards so far though.

------
philwelch
I bought an Oculus Rift a couple months ago, and this seems like a mixed bag.
Per [https://uploadvr.com/oculus-rift-s-
official/](https://uploadvr.com/oculus-rift-s-official/) :

> The original Rift used dual PenTile OLED panels for a total resolution of
> 2160×1200. Rift S replaces this with a single LCD panel with a resolution of
> 2560×1440...This provides a higher detail image with reduced “screen door
> effect”. However, you don’t get the deep blacks of OLED since LCD displays
> use a backlight.

Currently my #1 primary use of Rift is Elite Dangerous. One thing I don't want
to lose in an upgrade is the inky blackness of outer space. Higher resolution
would be lovely, of course, but how much higher is enough? I'd prefer to hold
out for a next-generation headset with high resolution and OLED.

> The Rift used external USB sensors for positional tracking...Like the
> upcoming Oculus Quest standalone, Rift S instead uses onboard cameras for
> “inside-out” tracking.

This is a godsend. Onboard cameras could also potentially help with
more...dynamic parts of your surrounding environment. By which I mean, I have
cats. So this is not only a huge improvement, but it's something that I think
can enable future improvements.

> No Physical IPD Adjustment

Since my IPD seems to be at the extreme physical end of the current Rift, I
don't think faking it with software is gonna work for me :(

> The Rift featured integrated headphones....Rift S removes these headphones
> and instead...[s]ound is piped through the side straps directly to your
> ears. Having nothing against your ear makes sound feel more natural and lets
> you hear others around you, but the downside is it can be heard by others in
> the room and the audio quality may be lower. The headset also features a
> 3.5mm jack so you can use your existing headphones or any you buy in future.

I think if I upgraded to Rift S, I would just use my headphones with it
instead of relying on the side strap audio. I don't find the Rift headphones
unnatural; they don't break immersion any more than having a massive visor
strapped to my face.

In total, I really wish there was a Rift S+ that had the innovations of the
Rift S but not the compromises. As it stands I don't feel a burning desire to
upgrade, but I wouldn't rule out switching brands if a better headset had the
improvements of Rift S but not the feature regressions.

~~~
Ajedi32
It seems to me the Rift S is targeted more at people new to VR, not at
existing Rift owners. The focus seems to be mainly on making setup easier, and
improving comfort and ergonomics, not on pushing the boundaries spec-wise.

~~~
philwelch
Yeah, it looks like Oculus is kind of conceding the high end of the market for
now. What would probably be best is to wait another generation or two so I can
get even higher resolution, picture quality, and FOV in addition to inside-out
tracking.

------
criddell
This is a bit off topic, but I was wondering if anybody that was given an
NDA'd preview of the technology before the first version was released has ever
commented exactly what it is that they were demoed? What was it that made
everybody so excited to write big checks?

------
stabbles
It's a gamble when you're on a Facebook product website, and you have
whitelist certain scripts for the page to render. On other sites I can just
block everything that has to do with Facebook.

------
martin_bech
Looks great, nice to not need external trackers. Only thing missing for me, is
the option for a single connection over usb-c, the so called VR-link present
on some newer gfx cards.

------
trixie_
Here's your chance Valve.

------
Sir_Cmpwn
They promised Linux support and took money from people on that premise. Then,
when they no longer needed us, they discarded us with empty promises of adding
Linux support "in the future". Now they're shipping new products and -
surprise - no Linux support. Oculus can shove it.

~~~
segmondy
This! I bought the dev kit 2 due to Linux support. I don't do windows and now
the stupid kit is just sitting, need to trash it. I'm never supporting Oculus
again.

~~~
Sir_Cmpwn
I ended up demanding a refund for mine, it arrived the same week that they
announced they were discontinuing their Linux SDK.

------
paulcole
Does anyone here use the "courtside" view of NBA/NCAA basketball games? How is
it?

~~~
pmtarantino
I watched some examples with the PSVR (PlayStation 4 VR) headset. It isn't
that good. I never felt like I was sitting in the courtside, but probably
because the quality of the video isn't that good. Also, it is very
umcorfortable to keep moving your head to follow the plays. In real life you
only move your eyes, not your head.

~~~
rrdharan
Thanks (for question and response) I had been wondering about this.. guess
I'll wait for the next generation.

------
butz
Quick question about Oculus setup: do you need to install some proprietary
drivers, register on Facebook, run some additional "launcher" software to play
games on Steam?

~~~
GuB-42
A bit more details:

\- You need an Oculus account but it doesn't have to be linked to your
Facebook account, in fact you don't need a Facebook account at all. The
exception is Oculus Rooms, a VR social app.

\- Obviously there are proprietary drivers. And only Windows 10. I think you
can use it in Windows 7 but it is not recommended.

\- You don't need the launcher. You can even run bare executables if you wish.
The Oculus software still runs in the background though. Also, the Oculus
launcher supports "unknown sources", that includes Steam games.

\- Oculus have their own store, but you can buy your games elsewhere if you
prefer. They have a few good exclusives though.

\- Steam games have different levels of support. Some games available on Steam
can make use of the Oculus API. These work just as well as native games
(because they are) but you may need a command line flag. Games using the
SteamVR API also work well, but there may be a few minor issues, like the
sound not switching to the headset automatically and a small performance hit.
Games that don't officially support the Rift usually work, with maybe a few
controller issues.

------
thefounder
No oled, no 8k, not even 4k...who wants this "upgrade"?

------
m3kw9
I’m imagining a time when they can project enough resolution into your retina
that can mimic a 4K TV at a distance constantly, that would be one of the
killer apps

------
unstatusthequo
No eye tracking? HTC ahead of the game there it seems

~~~
virtualritz
Yeah. I sold my Fove because no one is developing for this headset platform
and after years there is no Linux or macOS SDK.

I really hoped the importance of this feature was so obvious that no next gen.
headset would ship anymore w/o it. So I'm kind of flabbergasted Oculus just
did that with the Rift S.

------
dlukes
Maybe it's just me, but "Oculus Rift" has always sounded like a Harry Potter
spell to rip someone's eyeballs apart.

------
akivabamberger
What's the best PC or laptop setup HN folk have found?

