
Why I Still Get Shunned by Taxi Drivers - e28eta
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/10/why-i-still-get-shunned-by-taxi-drivers/411583/?single_page=true
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sridca
> It’s worth noting that in my experience, the drivers who most blatantly
> refused me service have never been white. [...] 84 percent of New York City
> cab drivers are immigrants (the vast majority are “of colour”)

This doesn't come as a surprise to me. Eastern countries in general have
stronger group-identities, and as such one group being less tolerant, or
ignoring, if not downright hostile of the other group is prevalent.

I think it would be far more productive if people looked at these issues as
group-based conflicts (instead or race-based ones). Then you have a wide range
of group based identification to be aware of, to the point of successfully
mitigating it.

For clarity, here are some groups that we identify with (leading to all sorts
of conflicts):

\- as ‘employee’/‘employer’, ‘worker’/‘pensioner’, ‘junior/’senior’ and so on.

\- as ‘English’, ‘American’, ‘Australian’ and etcetera.

\- as ‘white’, ‘black’, ‘brown’ or whatever.

\- as a ‘Hindu’, a ‘Muslim’, a ‘Christian’, a ‘Buddhist’ ad infinitum.

\- as a ‘Capitalist’, a ‘Communist’, a ‘Monarchist’, a ‘Fascist’ and etcetera.

\- as a ‘Democrat’, a ‘Tory’, a ‘Republican’, a ‘Liberal’ and all the rest.

\- as ‘son’/‘daughter’, ‘brother’/‘sister’, ‘father’/‘mother’ and the whole
raft of relatives.

\- as ‘boy’/‘girl’, ‘man’/‘woman’.

~~~
justin66
I only see one "group" on that list that's ever caused one of my friends to be
blatantly delayed/denied service in the public square in the way the article
describes. No bonus points for guessing which one.

~~~
drdeca
Ok. I don't know which one though.

~~~
justin66
Really?

The OP sought to put all those various forms of discrimination on an equal
footing for whatever completely bizarre reason (does anyone really believe
cabbies are quizzing people on their political affiliation before giving them
a ride or serving them a meal?) but the color of one's skin is the only one
that commonly causes quick and blatant discrimination in these situations
today in the United States.

We've got a legacy of racism here, but also: you might have a whole raft of
nasty prejudices but there aren't a lot of ways to discriminate against
someone you don't know in a first contact situation. Physical appearance is
the big one.

~~~
drdeca
... Somehow I "forgot" that it had to be one that was visually distinguishable
I guess?

Oh, wait, now I remember.

Some religions mandate things about clothing which are visually
distinguishable. I think that was something that I thought also could have
been it.

It's not hard to imagine someone who is not familiar with the practice being
unwilling to allow a Sikh to bring their kirpan in the taxi. (Hoping that I'm
not misunderstanding something about that)

Now, from the context, I suppose I should have concluded which one they meant.

But people can be discriminated against based on things which are visibly
apparent, and are mandated by a religion.

~~~
justin66
I think that's hypothetically a legitimate point. I have friends who wear a
yarmulke and I've never heard of anything happening, but I can see how there
might be cities where that sort of thing goes on. Blatant discrimination
against Jews happened in the American south in my father's youth, but not so
much anymore. ("soft" discrimination is a different matter)

Doubly so for Muslims in these times, or Sikhs, and so on. I'm sure bad things
happen.

I've got to tell you, though, withholding service is a pretty extreme thing
and it's only been described as a common experience to me by one group of
people. (and I should say, I've also witnessed it) It's the same dull,
discriminatory bullshit we've been dealing with in America forever and I
strongly suspect we aren't going to destroy it by taking a "we must also think
of the Tories who are suffering from discrimination!" approach. That's very
silly, and what it implies is dishonest.

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koblas
Since it appears that the ATS process is a fairly standard complaint process.
Why doesn't somebody make an app for that, get the taxi number and time then
allow somebody to enter the rest of the details (or video/photo) and submit.

Feels like worth doing to make the world a better place.

~~~
cwyers
It seems like the app for these situations is Uber.

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rockarage
This sort of discrimination is not limited to Taxi Drivers, Speaking from
experience, Uber drivers can and will reject a customer if they don't like the
neighborhood you're traveling to.

~~~
brobinson
How does an Uber driver reject a fare they've already accepted? Since they
don't know the destination until they pick you up, are they kicking you out of
the car after they pick you up? I've heard that Uber tracks the number of
"driver canceled after accepting a fare" incidents and warns drivers if they
do it too frequently.

~~~
dangle
Users can enter the destination before being picked up. I've had drivers
cancel before arriving, so I usually wait to enter the destination until my
seat belt is buckled.

~~~
cavisne
Drivers dont see the destination until they pick you up, quite deliberately.

~~~
bbradley406
While this is true, it's pretty easy to infer from gps. If there's a 10 minute
ETA and you just went over the proverbial train tracks into the bad side of
town, or you're familiar with the surrounding towns, it's not difficult.

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CyberDildonics
When something like this happens, take out your phone and record. People shape
up real quick.

~~~
mccracken
Unfortunately a band-aid solution for a deep-rooted problem (not saying that
one shouldn't do it).

~~~
SilasX
We have a solution that works, right now:

\- Potential passengers register with their name and personal credit card.

\- Drivers are paired in a way that conceals destination and ensures equal
distribution of bad ones.

\- Passengers and drivers rate each other and bad ones are removed from the
system.

\- No tipping (or priced in a way that doesn't depend on it).

This reassures both parties that there are consequences to failing to do your
part (criminally or otherwise).

It's just that the same people who were supposed to have solved this problem,
also scream bloody murder at the Ubers and Lyfts who implement the above
solution.

~~~
tacotuesday
>Passengers and drivers rate each other and bad ones are removed from the
system.

Never used Uber/Lyft, so maybe the answer would be obvious if I had, but...

What stops drivers from giving bad ratings based on race or destination?
Likewise, what stops passengers from giving drivers bad ratings based on race
or some other prejudice?

~~~
cavisne
Nothing, but giving a bad rating for race would be weird and rare.

Additionally you always see the driver's photo, and optionally see the riders
photo before the ride starts, so the deeply racist probably cancel before the
ride anyway.

~~~
e28eta
It's not necessarily race. How about a bad rating for getting a ride to an
undesirable part of town? Or one where the driver can't find another rider?

At least in 2014, it sounds like Uber has no way to verify racism isn't
happening: [http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/28/are-
ubers-...](http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/28/are-ubers-
passenger-ratings-big-data)

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JulianMorrison
It's going to be interesting to see which parts of these various cities
suddenly have taxi coverage, when self-driving cars eat these taxi drivers'
jobs.

