
China is laying the groundwork for a post-American world order - tosh
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/theworldpost/wp/2018/07/27/america-china/
======
zapita
I would argue that, more than anyone else, the US is laying the groundwork for
a post-American world order. It has been on that course since the post-9/11
insanity, and the trend has only accelerated since.

~~~
frockington
As an American I would be happy to see someone else take responsibility. If
China thinks they can somehow bring stability to the Middle East then give
them a shot. At least when they inevitably descend into chaos again it wont be
us having to babysit. I think many Americans are hoping China tries to take a
leadership role in Asia and near neighbors

~~~
astebbin
>I think many Americans are hoping China tries to take a leadership role in
Asia and near neighbors

Could you elaborate on this? My impression was that China has recently been
bullying its neighbors, particularly Vietnam and to some extent the
Philippines, over oil and gas deposits in the South China Sea. I can't imagine
that's great for regional stability.

I also wonder if many Americans would want China to take on a leadership role
with respect to Taiwan. I doubt the Taiwanese would take such a view.

~~~
Leary
Border tensions is only a minor part of life in Asia, one that is over
reported by western media. Trade and infrastructure are more important
concerns.

~~~
rando_supreme
I don't mean to call you out... but for an 11 day old account, you seem to
have a fair amount of pro China trolling material posted.

Why would border tensions be "over reported." It's a matter of allied
sovereignty?

------
jbrun
If you are interested in a more detailed portrait of the shifts happening,
this book is excellent. If the US loses its technological advantage and its
reserve currency status, it is very difficult to know what will happen.

[https://www.amazon.com/Shadows-American-Century-Decline-
Disp...](https://www.amazon.com/Shadows-American-Century-Decline-
Dispatch/dp/1608467732/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1532966821&sr=8-1&keywords=in+the+shadow+of+the+american+century)

China's biggest problem will be demographics, second only to their political
system.

US will likely due to tax / deficit issues, not so different than the French
aristocrats who refused to pay taxes in run-up to the revolution.

~~~
Leary
America has a number of enduring advantages:

1\. Its geography means it's impervious to conventional invasions.

2\. Its embracing culture will attract more immigrants.

3\. It is an offshoot of western civilization and therefore has natural allies
in Europe.

China's advantages are:

1\. It has a population that is 3-4 times the size of the US.

2\. Its economy is still underdeveloped, therefore economic growth is a lot
easier.

~~~
AnimalMuppet
> 1\. Its geography means it's impervious to conventional invasions.

You'd have to be insane to invade China, though. "Never get involved in a land
war in Asia". Especially never get involved in a land war in Asia against
someone with an army the size of China's.

> 2\. Its embracing culture will attract more immigrants.

This advantage the current administration seems to be working as hard as
possible to destroy. As far as I know, though, this is still an advantage for
the US compared to China.

> 2\. Its [China's] economy is still underdeveloped, therefore economic growth
> is a lot easier.

It's not nearly as underdeveloped as it used to be. Further growth will be
significantly harder than past growth was. Can China keep it going? I don't
know.

~~~
Leary
Nobody is capable of invading China, that is true. But American mainland is a
lot more secure than China's. Any military conflict will be fought near China
and have direct costs to China. For example, a blockage of the strait of
Malacca will cripple China.

As to the economy, as long as China grows faster than 3%, it will gain
relatively to the US.

~~~
everdev
Infrastructure destruction by missiles, terrorism and hacking (power grid,
financial system, etc.) seem more dangerous at the moment and geography plays
little to no role in any of those.

Also, weaponize space and all terrestrial advantages become mostly moot (no
GPS, communications, etc.).

------
frogfuzion
Serious question. What is the purpose of these articles? They seem to popup
often on mainstream media sites. They have little or no information other than
obvious stuff about belt and road, etc.

Is the purpose just clicks? Does China generate clicks?

~~~
munificent
This article wasn't obvious to me. Not everyone knows what you know.

------
Leary
It is Trump that is unraveling the American world order. He dislikes multi-
lateral institutions and does not care for values, only interests. Meanwhile,
the American government has no cogent response to China's Belt and Road
Initiative except for labeling it as "predatory". Something tells me the hard
cash of the Chinese will speak louder in Central Asia than American rhetoric.

~~~
api
Trump like the neocons is a reaction to a declining American world order. That
being said he's doing things that will also like the neocons merely hasten
this decline.

You can see this pattern in corporations all the time. Companies that start to
lose market share will often actually lean into the strategies and decision
patterns that are causing their collapse while simultaneously canceling
innovative projects that might lead somewhere new. They also often get
aggressive by doubling down on efforts to lock customers in and becoming
litigious, further driving away new customers and leading those with an
existing investment to start making plans to migrate.

Human beings react to scarcity by hunkering down, but hunkering down is almost
always a losing strategy in the post-industrial age.

I expect China's hunkering down to harm it as well. I think it's too early to
call China as the new world power.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Trump like the neocons is a reaction to a declining American world order.

Neoconservatism arose before the American world order was declining; they only
became noteworthy after the end of the Cold War because that (and not any US
decline, as such) created a gap between other prominent philosophies and and
neoconservatives on substantive foreign policy, where previously there was
more of a consensus on the outline of policy, though different philosophies
supported the consensus policy.

------
jewelthief91
The United States has been pulling back from the world order since the end of
the Cold War. We just don't need to engage with the rest of the world as much
as we used to, especially now that we don't even need foreign oil (thanks
fracking!). Trump is just continuing this trend with more bombast and
directness, as is his style.

------
swarnie_
I'm excited to see how the world will turn out with new leadership, absolutely
nothing wrong with progress/trying new things.

~~~
tengbretson
I think I can be pretty confident in saying that a global super power not
founded on enlightenment ideas will be an objectively worse place to live.

~~~
InfiniteBeing
It's frightening to think of a world controlled by China although Western
societies are heading in China's direction and left wingers have no problem
eroding free speech rights...

~~~
swarnie_
I would consider myself to the right on the political spectrum although i know
where left vs. right sit are a bit different in Europe vs. the US.

This site is very much America-centric so any criticisms of the holy land is
taken poorly. If you actually reflected on the last 20 years without bias you
would be able to understand why the developed world is considering a new flag
to rally behind.

