
The Trouble with High IQ - amelius
http://neurosciencenews.com/iq-hyper-brain-body-7720/
======
hprotagonist
Neuroskeptic is, unsurprisingly, skeptical:
[http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2017/10/22/in...](http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2017/10/22/intelligence-
risk-illness/)

 _Secondly, I have concerns about the sample. This wasn’t a study of high-IQ
people. It was a study of Mensans, a self-selected subgroup of high-IQ people.
6.5 million Americans fall in the top 2% of IQ, and only 55,000 of them are
members of American Mensa.

In other words, Mensans make up about 0.8% of high-IQs, and Karpinski et al.
have data from less than 10% of Mensans, so the sample is seriously
unrepresentative.

The ‘national average’ comparison data, however, were taken from nationally
representative American samples. The age, gender, and ethnic demographics of
the Mensa respondants differ considerably from the national average.

Even if we take the results of this study at face value, the ‘hyper-
brain/hyper-body’ theory is rather horribly simplistic. It reminds me of
ancient Greek humorism, or 19th century neurology’s talk of ‘nervous
excitement’. The brain is not a gland that just pumps excitement when
aroused._

~~~
loeg
It may well be that higher anxiety people are more likely to join Mensa.

~~~
lemagedurage
That sounds counterintuitive to me. "People with anxiety are more likely to
join a community."

~~~
ucaetano
Not really, people with anxiety are often looking for self-validation and
self-affirmation. Joining a community that screams "we're more intelligent
than 99% of the population" sounds like a fair way to go with that anxiety.

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markcmyers
Mensa members are a small subpopulation of Americans with high IQ, so it's a
stretch to conclude that high IQ is the problem. To me it's more plausible
that someone seeking to boost self-esteem and social status by joining a weird
organization tends to be a more troubled person than intelligent people in
general.

~~~
31b3r3t7
It may only be a coincidence, but I do have high IQ and exactly the kinds of
problems they mention in the article. I'm not American or a member of Mensa. I
have Hashimoto's thyroiditis, and inflamatory reactions to certain foods. I
also have high anxiety. Strong emotions or stress can be overwhelming enough
to give me gastritis or even ulcers sometimes.

~~~
cubano
Welcome to the human race. We all feel that way at times I would tend to
believe.

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olympus
Perhaps more appropriately "the trouble with Mensa members." A study
consisting only of Mensa members might not generalize to all people with IQ
>130\. There are two things needed to get into Mensa: 1) a high test score on
a qualifying test, and the important 2) some reason why it is worth it to pay
$70 per year to be a member.

Reason 2) is why I think that these results might not generalize. Many people
join Mensa for the narcissistic reason of being able to say that they are in
Mensa. I'll bet that narcissism has a larger impact on anxiety disorders.
Mensa is not representative of the general population of smart people when it
comes to narcissism. Obligatory note: there are other reasons to join Mensa,
such as the networking aspect of meeting other smart people.

There are tons of really smart people that have high test scores (or never
bothered to take an IQ test) that are well adjusted and get by just fine in
their life. They demonstrate their genius in their actions, not by their
words.

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zerohp
They should have concluded that people with anxiety disorder more likely to
join Mensa.

~~~
karllager
Would give this study a fresh angle, wouldn't it?

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briantakita
A possibility: People with high IQs notice patterns (with a higher fidelity)
that are not noticed by people with lower IQs.

Thinking in terms of a bell-curve probabilistic distribution: If there is a
baseline cultural perception (reality, narrative) shared by the majority of
people, those with high IQs will notice the degenerate patterns, hypocrisies,
and general systemic issues with the baseline.

One would need to live with these forces out of one's control. There are many
strategies. Some involve exploiting information asymmetries, some involve
creating a worldview (i.e. ethics, facts) that justifies these issues, some
involve taking actions to improve the conditions of the individual &
collective.

If one creates a personal worldview that is full of contradictions &
unresolved paradoxes, then anxiety occurs.

~~~
mordae
This.

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jphoward
How valid is studying Mensa to get a representative cross section of
intelligent people? I would wager many on this site are intelligent enough to
qualify for Mensa, but why would they join? Most will be sufficiently
surrounded by intelligent people in their day-to-day life to be stimulated. I
wouldn’t be surprised if the membership of a selective club for clever people
is most sought after by people missing something from their lives.

~~~
microcolonel
I can second this. I have met a few Mensans who said I should join, and I
think I would qualify, but I just don't feel that interested in it (though it
might be a good way to get some more community in my life). I too think people
who would bother to enter Mensa probably think or feel a bit differently in a
way which would affect a survey like this.

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nopinsight
Overexcitability is a known concept in the gifted education community but it
does not usually imply disorders.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overexcitability](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overexcitability)

A critical analysis of the research used in the article is worth reading:
[http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2017/10/22/in...](http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2017/10/22/intelligence-
risk-illness/)

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tw1010
The usual disclaimer is in order. Remember that just because A causes B, that
doesn't mean that if you have B then you necessarily have A.

~~~
loeg
We haven't even gotten to evidence of causality yet.

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socceroos
increased instability at higher functions than normal?

...sounds like typical overclocking issues.

~~~
nabla9
Reaction time correlates strongly with g factor.

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pfarnsworth
My children have had their IQs tested with scores >= 150. This was a
requirement for the private schools that we applied them to, it wasn't
something we were particularly interested in scoring.

One thing we've learned about high IQ children is that many experience
asynchronous development, meaning that some parts of their development are
much faster than others, which could actually be delayed. Things like
emotional immaturity, oversensitivity, etc are usual behavior traits of
children with high IQs.

The private schools for gifted children are the ones that cater to those
children with Social Emotional Learning (SEL). They focus on the emotional
side of development as opposed to purely academic, and so far so good. I've
met quite a few private-school grads from the Bay Area, and the last thing I
want to raise are unhappy, anxiety-ridden children after spending tens of
thousands of dollars a year. I've met quite a few adults who very much seem to
be emotionally damaged from their private school experiences at places that
seem to give detention for things like not tying your shoelaces, etc.

Focusing early on children's emotional needs and development early will I hope
help them not be filled with anxiety, unhappiness, self-doubt, etc.

~~~
arkitaip
If you knowingly put your kids in a school for the gifted, didn't you expect
them to evaluate their giftedness?

~~~
pfarnsworth
Where did I say I didn't expect them to be evaluated?

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karllager
The trouble with this study - if I should guess - is selection bias: How many
of those high IQ individuals are actually member of Mensa?

Given some test many years ago, I might have been qualified to become a member
of this club - but never tried, as I would like to see people as people and
not people as their brains, only. Maybe Mensa selects for those who are
anxious about their abilities and find the notion of the club card in some way
- soothing.

------
top256
Of course there is a bias in this study with people in Mensa. There is also an
added bias: people tested for IQ (in Europe) are tested because of behaviour
issues usually.

the interesting question is imho what do you think (from your experience).

Are you/your friends with high IQ psychological issues? I've read previously
that high IQ protects from such trouble

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Protostome
So there is a correlation between having psychological problems to being in
Mensa. Since no causation was demonstrated here, not even for the sample in
this study, the conclusion is not more than a clickbait.

------
beautifulfreak
Terman in 1922 found similar levels of "maladjustment" in a long term study of
the gifted. Women are more susceptible, and it increases with both IQ and age.
[http://prometheussociety.org/wp/articles/the-
outsiders/](http://prometheussociety.org/wp/articles/the-outsiders/)

------
rihegher
"Karpinski and her colleagues developed a hyper brain / hyper body theory of
integration. It posits that individuals with high cognitive ability react with
an overexcitable emotional and behavioral response to their environment"

This is one of the main characteristic of diagnosed gifted people as it is
commonly admitted.

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JepZ
> Each was asked to self-report their experiences of both diagnosed and/or
> suspected [...] disorders

So who else sees a problem with the methodology here. I mean, it sounds as if
the data was collected in a different way than the data it was compared to.

~~~
matt4077
That particular caveat is actually mentioned in the paper:

 _With the self-report, survey method there is often a risk of selective
recollection of data as well as potential over- or under-reporting. However,
there are numerous published, peer reviewed articles in highly reputable
journals that use a self-report method, including those that use data sets
which rely heavily on survey data (e.g., Der, Batty, & Deary, 2009; Wraw et
al., 2015; Wrulich et al., 2013). Additionally, empirical research has
confirmed that self-reported health ratings are reliable and valid measures of
health (Haapanen, Miilunpalo, Pasanen, Oja, & Vuori, 1997; Liang, 1986)._

~~~
JepZ
Thanks for the quote.

I am just wondering if '...empirical research has confirmed that self-reported
health ratings are reliable...' is still true if you pre-select the
individuals to have a high IQ.

------
dang
Some earlier discussion of this at
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15501006](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15501006).

------
sage76
On a tangent, does anyone here have any experience with other high IQ
societies like the triple nine society?

Are they any good for networking (especially for people not in the US/Canada)?

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bhauer
I wonder if anyone will point out that limiting their study to Mensa members
was a mistake.

Oh wait, that is what most of the comments are saying.

~~~
SubiculumCode
Mistake is harsh. Limitation is better. Finding a.sample given a set of
resources can be extremely difficult.

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austincheney
I am above average intelligence and nothing pisses me off more than stupid
people (especially stupid people gathering in large numbers). I can withstand
nearby gunshots or explosions without emotional stress (I am military), but
stupid people proclaiming their awesome wisdom really alters my emotional
state.

I had to stop visiting Ars Technica. Their news is great, but I wish I could
turn the comments at the bottom completely off. Their comments (really from
any news site) are a marvel in the study of stupid people coming together
(commonly referred to as an echo chamber).

~~~
slimshady94
Speaking for myself, I would feel pretty dumb if I got angry due to echo
chamber comments on online articles. Why would you cause stress to yourself
after reading vapid comments, when it's not mandatory to scroll to the bottom
of the article/fb post and read them?

~~~
austincheney
> Why would you cause stress to yourself after reading vapid comments

I am not a behavioral health researcher, and so cannot answer as to why people
get mad at things.

