
Stop asking me for my phone number - veb
http://spottedsun.com/stop-asking-me-for-my-phone-number/
======
bradleyland
According to some brief research, it looks like somewhere around 0.33% of
Americans under 85 are deaf, and around 4% are hard of hearing [1]. I find it
preposterous to optimize for that small section of the user population at the
expense of the overwhelming number of our users who tell us that phone is
their preferred method of contact. We're probably going to continue asking for
a phone number, because many users would be frustrated if email were the only
method of reply available.

What I'm _NOT_ suggesting is that we fail to accommodate deaf users. We don't
have a policy on how to accommodate deaf or sight impaired customers, but we
rely heavily on non-phone based means of communication, like Skype, so I'd
imagine we could accommodate deaf users relatively easily. We use well formed
HTML with semantic markup, but could probably stand to do some testing with
screen readers.

Come to think of it. This request has moved me to action. Staff resources are
going to be updated with notes on accommodating users with disabilities,
including links to TTY services in the resource handbook. Solving this problem
is probably easier than you think. All the major phone carriers are required
to provide TTY services [2].

1 - <http://research.gallaudet.edu/Demographics/deaf-US.php>

2 - <http://www.google.com/search?q=tty+services>

~~~
reemrevnivek
What service are you running where the "overwhelming number of [y]our users"
tell you that phone is their preferred method of contact?

As I wrote on the blog, email allows me to:

    
    
        - respond when it’s convenient for me.
        - keep most of my attention on what I’m doing.
        - archive and share the correspondence easily.
        - filter content I don’t want to hear anymore.
        - remain anonymous.
        - make careful, researched, edited responses.
        - include screenshots, links to videos, and other files which might be helpful.
        - continue to correspond if I loose my hearing and/or speaking abilities.
    

I’m not hearing impaired, and I much prefer email. Phone calls are only
acceptable in a small number of situations, and _I_ want to be the person to
decide when those situations occur.

~~~
neutronicus
Phone calls allow me to:

    
    
        - make sure that I have your attention until my problem is solved

~~~
DanBC
Phone calls make sure I waste my time trying to get your attention via low-
paid level one staff who have minimal training and who possibly hate me and
all other customers; until I give up navigating your awful phone-menu system
and getting misunderstood by aforementioned staff and being put on hold for
hours

~~~
brador
So you think the staff replying to your emails are highly paid and love you?

~~~
DanBC
No, but it doesn't cost me money to send an email. I'm in the UK. We tend to
have to pay to call companies. Where a company has a "freephone" number that's
only free from landlines (and possibly a small number of mobile tariffs) -
anyone calling from a mobile will have to pay lots.

The combination of poor customer service, and not getting the problem
resolved, and having to pay for it, is horrible.

------
johngalt
Someday unified communications....

It will seem anachronistic that phones/email/txt/vm/video were all so
disconnected. Each with different rules, and methods of connection. The first
thing to go will probably be phone numbers. I can already imagine my future
grandchildren saying "You had to memorize a ten digit number for anyone you
wanted to talk to?!"

Makes me wonder what it will look like in the long run. Probably something
like a chat client. Where you list modes of communication that are currently
available (voice, video, text, draw), and indirect status messages.

A mismatch in communcation level could be handled with automated middleware.
So if a company demands a "voice" channel, the author could send it through an
automated text to speech, and the same translation would happen in reverse. In
a pinch you could do something similar with language translation (text to text
only).

I just hope it's a distributed and open system. Similar to how email operates
today. I'd hate to think we'd embrace another communications gatekeeper
(Facebook or Google as the new Ma Bell)

~~~
Raphael
So email is the unified communication.

------
rmason
I liked the one comment in the article where the guy recommended a public
service that gave the deaf a real phone number which just contained a
recording informing callers that the person was deaf. That way they could
enter a real phone number of forms that insisted on one.

I don't know anyone at Twilio but if they want to perform a public service and
gets lots of karma it wouldn't be a bad thing to go do.

~~~
johns
I will give anyone here that wants to do this a boat load of Twilio credit to
get started. Email me jsheehan@twilio.com

~~~
johns
I think we've got enough people that have emailed me interested that this
problem is going to be solved soon.

~~~
sologoub
Here's the first go at the number: (415) 329-5992

It's just using the basic Twilio text to speech, but I'll get a proper
recording in there so it's easier to understand shortly. Website should be up
in a day or so. Any feedback is appreciated.

If anyone wants to pitch in with some ideas on how to provide a better service
or wants to hack together, let me know!

So far, I'm planning to put up numbers for major metro areas, and possibly
allow for personal numbers that will either transcribe and email messages to
the owner or go some sort of SMS route.

Also, if anyone has a contact at nad.org, please let them know.

DISCLAIMER: this is for good karma only, any ideas for this other than not for
profit will be turned down :)

------
scott_s
Are we talking about _asking_ or _requiring_? I agree no one should _require_
a phone number, but it's completely reasonable to ask if people want to use
that rather than email.

~~~
estel
This is the key point isn't it? For so many services whose core demographic is
not HN readers, vast numbers of the customers will prefer to use a telephone
over anything else. Even I will occasionally prefer to call if there's an
issue with a large company that needs sorting immediately, or I'm finding
emails getting constantly ignored.

Certainly requiring a telephone number (or any other personal details that I'd
rather not share) is ridiculous, and it's the company's responsibility to
contact me at my convenience, but there'd be a far bigger complaint over
services no longer even asking for a number.

~~~
briandear
Phone calls get ignored too. Just ask my credit card company.

------
xbryanx
Huzah.

Contrarians, please remember that, regardless of your opinion or business
size, you are required by federal law (ADA of 1990) to make your services
accessible to the deaf and hard of hearing. For some great examples, scroll
down to "Ten Small Business Mistakes" on this page -
<http://www.ada.gov/videogallery.htm>

------
FuzzyDunlop
I've nothing against phone calls (except being asked for my number for no
reason), but Bill Bailey had a bit in one of his earlier stand-ups (can't
remember which one) where he said the phone call is the most impolite form of
communication.

It's like shouting in someone's ears saying, "I WANT YOU TO STOP WHAT YOU'RE
DOING AND SPEAK TO ME RIGHT NOW!"

~~~
zandor
They did a segment on that in an episode with Bill Bailey on QI:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xXSw07zrio>

------
amalcon
There are so many problems with telephones as contact. They of course work by
voice. They are synchronous, and so require timing. They are very expensive.
They don't internationalize well. They are a link to a lot of personal
information.

I don't mind being asked for a phone number, so long as it's optional. I will
not sign up for any service where my only means of contact is by phone (though
I do permit "I physically walk into your office", for local-ish services).

~~~
zrail
So basically the service I built[1] is completely useless? Hasn't even been
out for a week! :)

[1]: <https://www.remindlyo.com>

~~~
amalcon
It is completely useless _for me_. It's also completely useless for deaf
people, or for people whose phone system doesn't interface well with yours, or
for many other classes.

That's not necessarily a bad thing; it's an essential characteristic of the
service. Just be aware that you're excluding a lot of people.

Your particular application takes advantage of the synchronicity issue. Other
than that, the only issue that applies to everyone is the cost.

------
gmantastic
I'm not deaf, but I strongly dislike companies calling me. Why do they think I
am using the web or email to contact them? SMS spam is a growing problem too,
and hard to filter (at least with the old phone I use). It all feels like an
invasion of privacy, and companies should be aware I'm unlikely to buy
anything from them if they force me to provide contact numbers.

------
rokhayakebe
I agree with you, but for different reasons. Calling someone is as intimate as
you could get, next to seeing someone, plus it's realt-ime. I rather email. If
I want to talk to you I will call you.

~~~
sologoub
I think you nailed it - phone call today is far more important and intimate
than it ever was. Same thing with an SMS - it's a guaranteed read. To me, if
it's important - send me an email or a letter. If it's urgent and super
important - send me an SMS. If all of my networth is going down the drain and
you need a split second decision, call me.

------
pestaa
I couldn't agree more. The annoying part is when they ask you to call them so
they can verify your identity.

It is a safe assumption that they don't do voice recognition, so why do they
think I can't just spell the same numbers out loudly I'd have sent in an
email...?

~~~
handelaar
No, the annoying part is when _they call you_ and immediately demand you
verify your identity to someone without even any Caller ID.

(And _my_ but they get shirty when you use the appropriate language which the
situation requires when telling them to get off the line.)

~~~
FuzzyDunlop
Banks are as annoying as you can get for this. Imagine being cold-called and
being asked some questions to prove you are who you say you are.

Imagine then the correspondence the same bank sends in various forms about
keeping the same information to yourself to prevent your account being
compromised.

------
dredmorbius
The phone has its place.

Generally it's buried somewhere far from me under a pillow.

I'm a non-deaf, high-functioning normal. I _hate_ phone calls for all the
reasons iterated here (intrusive, annoying, inconsiderate, lossy, non-
searchable, difficult (or illegal) to record, etc.). I'll just include
reemrevnivek's post by reference, it's excellent:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3104873>

I might check voicemail once a week (sorry, Mom).

My voicemail message basically says "don't leave a voicemail".

My biggest present gripe: recruiters who call at all hours of the day.
Actually, thanks to them I found a call-blocking app for my phone, such that
only known numbers will ring.

Even with blocking, phone calls interrupt current activity on the phone (not
so hot when you're buried deep in a technical problem and it's the only link
out to technical resources which might help).

What I'd like to see is the ability to classify contacts by who is or isn't
allowed to actually ring through to the handset.

And that null-voicemail feature others have suggested.

~~~
epochwolf
> What I'd like to see is the ability to classify contacts by who is or isn't
> allowed to actually ring through to the handset.

Google voice allows you to do this. I have everyone except my friends and
family go through call screening before they can ring my phone. I also have a
recruiter who was calling me blocked with a "this number is disconnected"
message. (he used 6 different numbers before I completely blocked him...
yeesh)

------
kylec
I'm not deaf, but I share the sentiment. If we are not very close friends or
related, I don't answer your call. And I've taken to giving my Google Voice
number to some of the more persistent callers with it going straight to
voicemail. I get what I want (an email with a mediocre speech-to-text version
of the message) and they get what they want (to use a phone).

------
kirchart
Tottally on your side, we stop the phone support in the company since we
started lol .. email ist a way more helpful without a doubt

------
alttag
For some instances where I know it's for marketing purposes but also that
they'll use it as a lookup key for my account (e.g., loyalty cards) I give my
parent's phone number.

Between that and being on the national do not call list (U.S.), I get no sales
calls.

Occasionally, I'll use a 555 prefix (like in books or movies) which is a
reserved designation for fictional numbers.

------
bschlinker
This is the reason why most online relay services, such as i711, provide their
users with free inbound numbers.

When a call is received, the user is notified via a variety of mediums,
including instant message, SMS, and I think some other desktop/mobile apps
they have. If the deaf user accepts the call, the relay informs the caller
that the other individual is deaf and begins to transcribe the call.

2-way conversation (text<\----->relay<\----->caller)

In addition, these services provide transcriptions of voicemail / etc and are
completely FREE (sponsored by individual state tax dollars in US). I'm really
surprised that the post makes no note of these services, since I have known
about them for years and am not hard of hearing.

------
yesreally
Whenever I notice customer service requires speaking on the phone, I'm fairly
sure that they do that to avoid having a record of their conversation. +1 to
public pressure to force these guys to support the sense disabled. But you
can't combat that with government regulation- at least not in any sensible
way. Instead, lobby Mozilla, Google, Microsoft, Apple, and Opera to enforce
accessibility via page warnings, etc. That may actually be something that the
government could help with - working with these companies and standards
committees to ensure representation of the disabled.

~~~
inconditus
Nope, when calling customer service, almost all say "This conversation may be
recorded for quality insurance".

~~~
JoshTriplett
Something you might find useful: that standard statement also gives you
permission to record the call yourself.

(You may or may not need such permission, depending on your legal
jurisdiction.)

~~~
gwillen
Do you have a cite to a case or good reference for this? I've heard it before,
and it would be nice to have a source for it, in case I ever need to rely on
it.

~~~
JoshTriplett
[https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Telephone_rec...](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Telephone_recording_laws)
provides a good starting point. I don't know of an authoritative citation
offhand.

------
john2x
I prefer email myself since I work on the night shift and pretty much miss
every call during the day.

------
moses1400
I repeat my comment from the blog post - the real question here is whether we
should expect companies to communicate with us using the method we want or
should we communicate the way the company wants. The internet is moving us
more towards the former every day.

------
pnathan
I don't like phone calls. SMS is tolerable.

I prefer email or IM (or a forum).

Phone is very susceptible to noise and hearing issues; it's not searchable
without fancy transcription equipment, and frankly, I don't have time to think
and give the answer that a quality question deserves.

------
TobiasCassell
T-Mobile wont let me not have voicemail even if I offer to continue paying for
it and not employ it. I just dont want it on. I never check it and I'm unclear
why we must absolutely have to have it... I am not hearing impaired.

------
rdl
I just use a google voice number set to transcribe all incoming calls and
email. Unless someone has a very inconvenient accent, it seems to work well.
I'm not deaf, merely antisocial.

------
colinplamondon
A signup form is there to make money. Optimizing against 0.5% of the
population at the expense of 99.5% is a poor way to make money.

If they require a phone number for activation, that's straight up annoying to
everyone, and a terrible way to make money. If they just ask for the number,
you can enter a fake, no harm, no foul

------
vegasbrianc
Finally a reason to get away from the contact forms that have not changed
forever.

------
chadp
Just put a fake phone number with the right number of numbers.

------
nirvana
Not even my parents have a real phone number for me, I'm sure as hell not
going to give you one when asked by some 19 year old cashier! But, I no longer
have to debate with these people about whether they _really_ need my phone
number or not, I just give them the google voice number.

As a programmer, I've found that interruptions are the most problematic thing
that keeps me from being more productive, and nothing is more irritating than
being interrupted by a pointless phone call. So, over a decade ago, I stopped
having a landline, and only gave my cell number to a small number. Then I
stopped carrying a cell completely.

I'm kinda amazed, in this day and age, how many organizations primary method
of communication is the phone. I've had people, on multiple occasions, say "I
can't do that for you via this forum, please call us at XXX".

The only reason I want an iPhone 4Steve (unlocked, of course) is because I
want to have data access everywhere. The ability to make the occasional phone
call for those people (usually government offices it seems) still stuck in the
19th century is a minor bonus.

If you require a phone number in order to do business with you, I simply will
not do business with you.

------
pyrotechnick
If you didn't dress like such a slut you wouldn't have this problem.

