
Getting LASIK eye surgery - bemmu
http://www.bemmu.com/getting-lasik-eye-surgery
======
rms
I had LASIK 1.5 years ago...

I went from not being able to see the big E at the top of the chart (worse
than 20/500, but still only 80th percentile bad for people getting LASIK) to
having 20/25 vision.

My world looks fundamentally different to me than my pre-corrected vision. All
around, it's substantially more like being on LSD all the time. Lights are
brighter. Way, way brighter. Blacks are deeper. The contrast has been turned
up on my vision by at least an order of magnitude. At night, it makes big
light installations more interesting and driving not that much harder.

My ability to perceive 3 dimensional detail is much improved. I can perceive
the intricate structure of the leaves of a tree in a way that was previously
impossible for me. Current LASIK is good at fixing higher order aberrations
and this is what results in the improved 3d vision.

No matter what your doctor tells you, accept that sometimes, LASIK doesn't
quite stick and once your vision gets worse than 20/60 or so, you'll need
corrective lenses or another surgery. I expect that sometime in the next 10 or
20 years, I will get a LASIK touch-up, then a while after that, a lens
replacement. Maybe a lens replacement instead of another LASIK surgery if
medical technology improves exponentially or something.

If you can afford it, I would suggest getting LASIK (or PRK or computer-
automated derivation of PRK if you don't mind suffering for a week or so, in
exchange for not leaving never healing wounds in the middle of your eyes),
especially if your vision is significantly worse than normal or you have
moderate astigmatism. The world really does just look better.

I'm also a mediocre outcome of modern LASIK surgery! A lot of people get to
20/15 vision. A lot of the bad press for LASIK came 10 years ago or more,
before wavefront-guided LASIK. As it stands, LASIK tech these days is
brilliant elective surgery.

~~~
swah
This notation 20/* is very interesting: in Brazil they never tell you a number
like that.

People tell you about how well they see by saying that they don't need
glasses, or by giving their prescriptions, like "hyperopia, 2.5 on right eye,
1.0 on left, plus astigmatism of 1.0 on the right eye..."

~~~
lucian1900
It's an American think afaict. I still don't quite get how it works, just that
it has something to do with feet.

~~~
taejo
It's a ratio of distances -- the benchmark distance is 20 feet but that's non-
essential. 20/10 means you can see the same level of detail at 20 feet that
somebody with "normal" vision can see at 10 feet.

~~~
lucian1900
That seems problematic, how is normal vision defined?

With dioptres, the definition is very clear and based on optical properties of
the eye.

------
lutusp
I also underwent Lasik surgery, with excellent results. Before the surgery I
had a 20/200 eyesight correction (that's pretty severe).

About the halo effect around bright points of light after dark that the author
mentions -- over a period of years this effect has diminished for me as the
seam around the surgery cut has gradually smoothed itself out. Now, after
dark, stars and other points of light are nearly as cleanly focused as they
would be to one with naturally good vision.

Overall, after over a decade of experience, I'm very glad I got this surgery.
Because I'm in my 60s, I need to wear reading glasses for close work (true for
everyone at my age), but in outdoor activities like kayaking and skiing where
distant vision predominates, activities where glasses were once a real pain,
the surgery really pays off.

Definitely recommended.

~~~
bemmu
Great to hear it can get better. Even if mine never recovers and I will
forever have this halo, I would still go through with it.

Other feedback I got on the post was that in some countries you don't need
several days of checks before getting the surgery. In some places they do it
on the same day.

~~~
lutusp
> Other feedback I got on the post was that in some countries you don't need
> several days of checks before getting the surgery. In some places they do it
> on the same day.

I live in the U.S. and had my surgery done in Vancouver, B.C., Canada. I
didn't have to go through several days of preliminaries -- just an eye exam
from a local optometrist in advance of the surgery.

------
zokier
Note that there are tons of different methods for corrective eye surgery with
different properties. They are often advertised in a confusing matter (eg.
calling everything "LASIK" etc). Vanilla LASIK is not quite the state-of-art
anymore. Currently a technique called "ReLEx SMILE" is touted as the "best"
laser surgery around here.

Another fairly interesting technique is ICL surgery, in which a contact lens
is injected inside the eye permanently. Supposedly it would give better
optical results as the eye is not physically modified. ICL should be also
capable of correcting more severe cases.

It would interesting to hear more knowledgeable opinions about the different
techniques, as most readily accessible material is just marketing from the
corresponding corporations, and thus not exactly objective sources.

~~~
illuminate
"Currently a technique called "ReLEx SMILE" is touted as the "best" laser
surgery around here"

Interesting, what is it based on?

The University of Washington seems to offer LASEK (not LASIK) as the best
modern technology.

~~~
zokier
Apparently in relex smile the laser operates _inside_ the cornea, and as such
will leave the surface untouched.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE6i7odO3PA> there is plenty of marketing
material about this out there

------
robocat
Get one eye done, then the other a few months later (2nd _only_ if you are
happy with results).

If you get both done at once, you have _no_ objective way to independently
compare whether the results are better than what you already have....

My doctor was pushing me to get both done at once, but I wanted to have a
control to compare against, and boy am I glad I did.

Both my eyes were about -6, but I only had my right eye done (left eye not).
It is useful having one eye that doesn't need contacts. But it is also useful
having one -6 eye because it makes close-up work easy (I can't use the right
Lasik'ed eye for fine detailed work - it can't focus on anything closer than
30cm - like long sighted but actually isn't).

With a contact in my left eye, and the Lasiked right eye, the left eye has
much better clarity even in day time. The results on the right eye were normal
(this situation isn't because things were stuffed up).

The halo effect is due to uneveness/dimples/ripples created, so can never be
corrected by lenses.

 _Anyone_ that has both eyes done at one time cannot make an objective
comparison of advantages/disadvantages.

~~~
AngryParsley
Anecdotes aren't worth much. What matters is statistics. What fraction of
those who have corrective surgery regret it? The answer: less than 1 in 20.
Most of that fraction includes those who are unhealthy: mainly people with
high blood pressure. Those who are in risk groups shouldn't go for it.
Everyone else should. The FDA, an extremely risk-averse organization,
advocates laser eye surgery [1]. In almost all circumstances, those who
undergo surgery vouch for it.

I had epi-LASEK in both eyes, spaced apart by 10 days. Even though healing
times for my surgery are measured in weeks, I could certainly tell the
difference between my corrected eye and my uncorrected eye. LASIK is much more
pronounced, since one's vision improves within days instead of weeks.

1\. <http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/103194.php>

------
AngryParsley
I got PRK (epi-LASEK actually) in 2011. It is without a doubt the best money I
have spent. Beforehand I was 20/450 in each eye. Now I'm 20/15 in each eye and
20/10 combined. Although the healing process did take a couple of months, it
was definitely worth it. If you wear glasses or use contacts, please consider
eye surgery. The risk is minimal and the cost is minuscule when amortized over
the life of your eyes.

There are many small advantages you'll notice with your improved vision. You
can decrease your font size and fit more code on your screen. This is
equivalent to using a larger monitor, and it works on portable devices. You
can wake up and _see_. I can't properly convey how that feels, especially if
you have east-facing windows to catch the sunrise. When traveling, you don't
have to worry about logistics related to contact lenses or glasses. It's
amazing.

If you have myopia or astigmatism, please _please_ consider eye surgery. You
won't regret it.

------
radiac
I had LASEK surgery. I had gone in for LASIK, but was told I wasn't suitable
due to the shape of my eyes. Instead of cutting a flap and burning underneath,
in LASEK they just melt off the front bit of the cornea, burn the exposed
eyeball flesh, then let the cornea grow back after the operation.

LASEK has a longer recovery time, because you have to wait for the cells to
grow back across the front of the eye - I was in agony for the first few days,
mostly because they gave me the anaesthetic drops to take home with the words
"You can take this if it hurts, but it'll probably slow your recovery", so I
just left them in the fridge. Helpful. But after a week I had no pain, better
than 20/20 eyesight, no noticeable halo effects and only very mild starbursts
- noticeably better than the ones I had with glasses or contacts. The only
thing that really suffered was my wallet.

I had this done about 3 or 4 years ago, and regret nothing. For the first year
I did occasionally wake up with dry eyes - well, ok... without the sugar
coating: I did occasionally wake up screaming and writhing in agony when the
vulnerable tender cells on the front of my eyes had dried out and stuck to the
inside of my eyelids, which I'd then brushed against a pillow and torn the
cells off my eyeball. Yeah, I've got to admit, that wasn't pleasant. The
problem was that my eyes never really had a chance to heal after the
operation, because I needed to use the celluvisc drops for longer than they
had initially recommended - once we realised that and I used it every evening
for a couple of months, my eyes were able to heal fully, and it has been fine
since.

Ultimately it's not going to be for everyone - it's expensive, and at times
can be painful. But I hated wearing glasses (I was -6, so could only focus on
things if they were touching my nose), I didn't get on with contacts, and I
love being able to now do things that normal-sighted people take for granted -
being able to walk into a warm shop in winter without needing to de-fog
yourself, walking around in the rain without needing windscreen wipers, or
slipping sunglasses on when you step into the sun. The novelty still hasn't
worn off, and I can't recommend it enough.

------
imurray
I'm too risk averse for eye surgery (read the other comments, it's not perfect
for everyone, doesn't always last, and you only have one pair of eyes to play
with). I used to wear glasses, because I found contact lenses to be too much
hassle.

About three years ago I swapped to "silicone hydrogel" continuous wear contact
lenses. After getting used to them, I can leave them in for a month at a time,
and then throw them away (no cleaning!). I forget I'm wearing them, and wake
up being able to see. If you have severe short-sightedness (I'm -8) having
contacts makes everything bigger than with glasses, it's much better. I
recommend giving it a go; opticians often fall over themselves to give you a
free trial.

Edit: the precise lens type I'm using is Comfilcon A (Biofinity,
CooperVision), which wikipedia describes as "3rd generation" silicon hydrogel.
There are other types, and apparently different people get on with different
ones.

~~~
ledhund
> you only have one pair of eyes to play with

Of course they are less durable than most other body parts, I think it wasn't
until I recovered from my lasik that I fully understood that eyes, like any
other part of the body, heal if damaged. Except maybe teeth.

~~~
zokier
Afaik ears also do not heal; once your hearing is gone, then it's gone. Of
course that probably is crude generalization, but I believe it to be true for
noise-induced hearing loss at least. So take care of your ears, and use ear
plugs when necessary.

------
bfe
For those considering it, just keep in mind that getting LASIK will prevent
you from getting accepted as a NASA astronaut (due to the risk of explosive
decompression of your corneas in the event of a sudden loss of pressure in a
space vessel (last I checked)).

~~~
zokier
There has been at least one space tourist with eye surgery (PRK, not LASIK
though): Richard Garriott.

edit: found a actual reference for requirements:
<http://astronauts.nasa.gov/content/broch00.htm#bqr>

_The refractive surgical procedures of the eye, PRK and LASIK, are allowed,
providing at least 1 year has passed since the date of the procedure with no
permanent adverse after effects._

edit2: fixed, not a astronaut per se. thanks glurgh

~~~
glurgh
Richard Garriot was a paid space tourist, not a NASA astronaut, regulations
about eye surgery notwithstanding.

------
zwegner
I'm sure glad I didn't get this. I wore glasses for years and hated them,
until I read about vision therapy. My vision has definitely gotten better,
without any lenses or surgery, for free (well ok, I bought a book about it),
and I'm sure it could be even better if I wasn't lazy about it.

It makes sense to me, how could humans naturally get such bad vision, when it
can be so disadvantageous in an evolutionary sense? Environmental factors
(such as staring at a computer screen...) would seem an obvious cause, and the
evidence seems to confirm it.

~~~
oakenshield
Which book did you get? Curious to find out what's in it.

> ... so disadvantageous in an evolutionary sense? Environmental factors (such
> as staring at a computer screen...)

Well if you're arguing that it's a nurture thing, there are plenty of us who
had bad vision at childhood, right from before the dawn of the computer age.
You could say that it was not computer screens but books that caused it, but
how far back can you make this argument? Any sources for this claim?

~~~
zwegner
Well, I did too--I started wearing glasses at around age 4. Books and TV would
certainly contribute as well--as I understand it, "nearpoint stress" is the
main cause of myopia. The eyes are tuned for scanning the horizon for faraway
threats; we're naturally more far-sighted. Focusing your eyes closely causes
strain, where your eye muscles must contract the lens constantly. Your eyes
accomodate this stress by keeping the lens in a contracted position, and by
lengthening the eye.

------
Rain_maker
Nostalgia!!

Did LASIK about 5 years back. This post makes me feel bad about not
maintaining a journal of the process.

Was very sensitive to light for the first day, couldn't bring myself to open
my eyes(Middle Of summer in INDIA!! ). But the next morning, where i could see
every small detail without the spectacles(Which I hated) was awesome.

A bit of advise if you had done the surgery recently, is that give your eyes a
bit of time to heal and stay away from TV, Computers for at least a
fortnight... Not absolutely necessary, But you know...

~~~
bemmu
Yes, was told not to do any office work or spend time focusing near for about
three days.

That light sensitivity part was strongest after they put in eyedrops as part
of some test on the second day of testing. That day it might have been a good
idea to go home in a taxi and use sunglasses. Less strong after the surgery
itself.

------
buyx
I had LASIK done in 2002. Only diagnosed with myopia in high school, it was
relatively mild, and I hated having glasses/contacts on my face/eyes. My
experience was very similar to the one described, including the halos, which
faded within months. I was in my early 20s so I was told there was a small
risk of needing further treatment in future, as I was relatively young, but
fortunately that hasn't been needed. Unless I'm reminded of the surgery, I
forget that I had it done at all - except for 20/20 vision in both eyes.

At the time, if you had asked me, I would have assumed that most short-sighted
middle-class South Africans would have done the operation in 10 years time (at
about R15-20k, prices have fallen in real-terms over the last decade).
Instead, it seems there's a lot of FUD surrounding it, and people prefer to
struggle with contact lenses.

------
alexkus
Bilateral keratoconus. It's been stable for the last 10 years but it rules out
any form of LASIK as my corneas are already thin enough thankyouverymuch.

I've worn glasses since I was 11 so I don't mind. I'm 20/60 in one eye and
20/200+ in the other but with glasses (no special expensive lenses) I can get
20/15 overall vision.

I have prescription sunglasses for cycling and skiing (or I just use glasses
under goggles for adverse skiing conditions). I have prescription swimming
goggles but I've no problem swimming without. I play 5-a-side football in
glasses with no problems.

Toric lenses would be best for me but I just didn't get on with them. Soft
lenses can't cope with the keratoconus and I really didn't get on with
hard/gas-permeable lenses.

------
fekberg
I did FS-LASIK exactly 1 year ago. I didn't have very bad sight at the time
only had to use glasses/contacts when driving a car but I felt this was just a
hassle.

My doctor told me that it would take about 1 year before my brain calibrated
correctly, these "spikes" (dunno what to call it) around for instance car
lights goes away after that time because the brain needs to "get use to it".

According to my doctor my result was better than expected, I've got as perfect
sight as possible after the operation. I did however spend a couple of days in
bed even thought I was told that I could work within the next couple of days
(I wanted to be on the safe side though).

People have asked me if I would do it again and I sure would.

------
rdl
I got LASIK in Thailand (TRSC) in 2006; went from 20/80 and 20/60 to 20/10.

It did increase dryness for a year or two (but, I was also in a desert), and
caused "halos" around lights at night, but that went away after a year or two.

Probably the best $2500 (for two eyes; wavefront!) I ever spent. I had a huge
($60/night) hotel suite at the Royal Meridien for a week, and took the hotel
limo to/from the center, since I didn't want to deal with navigating Bangkok
or taxis while blind. I could read by the next day, by setting my laptop to
80x24 full-screen mode, but mostly just drank, ate, and slept in my room for a
couple days.

~~~
Hansi
I'm assuming it's cheaper now in Thailand. I paid less than that for mine 14
months ago in Iceland.

Also surprised that the halo lasted so long for you, my light sensitivity was
back to normal after 3 days.

~~~
rdl
The halo was only around point sources of light at night. I happened to be
driving a lot at night at the time, so it was more noticeable. It turned into
just "star bursts" around lights, then went away.

------
MattPearce
I had LASIK just over 6 months ago, and I'm really happy with the results.

How much does it cost in the US? Down here in NZ, it cost me NZ$5750
(~US$4877) for intralase (laser-created flap) on both eyes.

I didn't have a lot of those follow up tests mentioned where they poke your
eye. I had a follow up the day after, then a week after, then a month, then
two months after. All they did at each appointment was get me to read from a
chart and examined my eyes with some kind of digital microscope.

~~~
nomercy400
I had femtolasik in The Netherlands in 2012, which is like intralasik. Costs
are around 3200 EUR total (~4300 USD), but with a healthcare insurance return
of 500 EUR. Operation itself took about an hour (around noon), after which I
could go home again under guidance. I could see a bit again the same
afternoon, and got back to work two days after.

Annoying parts were the preparation (one week eyedrops) and the eyedrops after
the operation for two months that take some time. And the fact that during the
operation you realize that your eye is more attached to the huge laser machine
than to your eye socket. Good thing that only lasted a minute.

No physical contact to the eye, just some checkups.

~~~
wyclif
Thanks, I understand your first and second paragraphs completely, but the last
sentence is a bit confusing— I'm not sure what is meant by "no physical
contact to the eye." Do you mean that no instrument touched your eye during
the operation, just the laser?

------
nicholassmith
I actually _really_ like wearing glasses, but most people seem to hate it. I
didn't start wearing them until quite late in my life though, so maybe I'll
get sick of them in ~5 years. Mostly as well it's the healing process that
puts me off, I know how long it took for a friend to feel like it was fully
done and I'm not sure I have the patience.

------
kmanlives
I had Radial Keratotomy (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radial_keratotomy>)
done in 1991. It was done _by hand_ with a SCALPEL. Valium was my friend that
day.

I've had 20/20 vision until recently. I wore glasses from the time I was 9
years old until I was 21. I'm now beginning to see my age affect my vision (at
42). The surgery was a life-changing experience and the difference was
immediate - I sat up from the surgery, looked out the window, and could see
individual leaves on the trees outside.

There are always risks to be considered, though. I found out when going back
in for a follow-up that a new test showed that my corneas were too thin. If I
had come in as a new patient after that test was implemented, they wouldn't
have done the procedure.

I'm not sure if I should feel lucky I went before that test was added, or just
lucky I didn't have any issues.

------
drucken
I chose LASEK instead of LASIK because all my research years ago recommended
those doing sports or very physical activity have higher risks with LASIK,
mainly due to the the flap.

I gained further confidence when I discovered that many flight schools and
special ops military schools accepted (or used to accept) PRK/LASEK, but not
LASIK.

Even though the recovery time is longer for LASEK and you need to take more
care for longer than with LASIK during that recovery, I felt it was worth it.

I have had 20/10 vision for six years now and I consider it one of the best
decisions I ever made. I cannot recommend it enough for those whose vision has
stabilized.

------
amima
The LASIK itself is not something interesting, but the results after 10 years
- that's what matters. Would be great to read if there are any long-term
problems real people are experiencing.

------
reinhardt
It's been at the back my of mind for years but I haven't found the courage to
do it. The reason may sound silly: I feel extremely squeamish with anything
that involves contact with eyes. It's the same reason I've stayed away from
contact lenses and keep wearing stupid glasses instead. If there was a way to
fix my eyes without me or anyone else having to come in contact with them (at
least when I am conscious), I'd do it in a heartbeat. Anyone else with the
same hang-up?

~~~
EnderMB
You're definitely not alone. I cannot stand anything getting near my eyes, so
there is no chance I could ever wear contact lenses.

I don't mind my glasses, mainly because I'm very short-sighted and really need
them if I'm driving or walking around outside, but if I had the guts I'd
probably get the surgery. The thought of having lasers shone into my eyes
while I'm still conscious is enough to make my stomach turn.

~~~
reinhardt
Actually the laser itself is the least of my stomach-turning thoughts. It's
things like this from TFA: "a thin wire kind of thing was slightly poked into
the side of my eye to see how many tears I would shed in a certain period" and
"an instrument was physically pressed against eye, which vibrated in and out
slightly". No way Jose.

------
josscrowcroft
Oh god oh god the cutting oh god!

I see that it's a fantastic procedure, and I'm -8.0 in both eyes, but I'm
gonna stick with contact lenses at $30 a month I think.

Just too squeamish.

------
Urgo
I actually got PRK myself last year and logged the whole experience, including
the entire procedure and healing process on video:
[http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4518F9CBDA82E865&...](http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4518F9CBDA82E865&feature=view_all)

I'm happy with the results.

------
kybernetikos
I wrote about my LASIK surgery and the risk tradeoff here: Plastic Surgery To
Make Other People Look Better : [http://kybernetikos.com/2007/06/08/plastic-
surgery-to-make-o...](http://kybernetikos.com/2007/06/08/plastic-surgery-to-
make-other-people-look-better/).

------
feintruled
His diary almost exactly mirrors my own experience, but I would say there is
really no need to go to your doctor to get prescribed diazepam or anything
else just to get through it unless you are an exceptionally nervous person.

------
sramam
You should consider donating your glasses:
[http://www.volunteerguide.org/minutes/service-
projects/eyegl...](http://www.volunteerguide.org/minutes/service-
projects/eyeglasses-donation)

------
thirsteh
Ironically the post's font is extremely hard to read, at least on Windows.

~~~
bemmu
Better now?

~~~
thirsteh
Yes, much. Thanks!

------
timedoctor
I have a permanent side effect from LASIK which is dry eyes. it's supposed not
to last more than a couple of weeks, but it's essentially permanent in my
case.

------
tobylane
Has anyone autistic had it done? I fear moving when I shouldn't, and know that
general anaesthetic isn't an option. Do they offer anything special?

------
static_typed
Having gotten a new pair of glasses just this week, and having worn a variety
of glasses and contact lens over the past 25 years, I consider laser surgery
every now and then, discuss it with the eye surgeons, but then stop when I
consider one point - they are willing to perform the surgery, and are happy to
recommend it, yet they wore glasses - they did not seem willing to have it
done on their own eyes.

Always struck me as a bit odd - like a pub landlord who refuses to even taste
any of his beers. Not the best indicator for trust and confidence.

That said, I have two friends who opted to have it done, one had perfect
results, the other has a persistant issue with halo/floater artifacts in one
eye.

~~~
sgift
Are the doctors older? LASIK doesn't help if your eyesight gets worse due to
old age. Your eye muscles will get worse and then you cannot focus as well on
near objects. That is the reason many "old" (it may start as early as 45 or
not until well into the 60s) people need to wear glasses.

Just an idea, but a better alternative would be to ask them why they still
wear glasses.

~~~
static_typed
One particular surgeon was not too old, his glasses corrected mild myopia and
a slight astigmatism. When I actually put him on the spot about the laser
surgery question, his reply, which was reasonable and honest, was that surgery
is a personal choice, and he personally appreciated the advances and
refinements in the techniques employed, but still preferred to wait and see
re: long term effects in patients.

