
The Advertising Industry Has a Problem: People Hate Ads - gumby
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/28/business/media/advertising-industry-research.html
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malux85
I hate ads because they are so, totally, unbelievably irrelevant to me.

I’m a daily YouTube user, I have a rich watch history of (probably) 10,000s of
videos.

Then it serves me an ad for beer with a bunch of beautiful woman, at a loud
party, drinking with men.

I’m a non-drinking, introverted, gay, who hates loud parties. The
advertisement couldn’t have been more irrelevant if it tried.

~~~
jasonlfunk
People complain (not that OP is complaining per se) because the ads are
irrelevant, but also object to tracking and profiling. You can't have targeted
ads AND be anonymous to the ad companies.

~~~
garaetjjte
This is false dillema created by advertisers. Ads don't have to be targeted to
be revelant.

Now they are trying to create some magic algorithms to determine user
interests and serve same ads everwhere, independent of current page context
(including vacuum cleaner you bought last week, but maybe you need another?).
But why they won't do the obvious thing, serving ads revelant to the page they
are shown on..?

~~~
Mirioron
> _Ads don 't have to be targeted to be revelant._

They pretty much do. Non-targeted ads will either require an unreasonable
amount of effort to disseminate or they will not be relevant to the vast
majority of people that see them. Contacting different sites about a specific
topic to show your relevant ads is going to take an incredible amount of work.

What's probably even worse is if we get a situation like on YouTube, where
it's just the same 5-10 companies buying ads for their products. This means
that content creators will advertise NordVPN on their site, even if the
product itself is bad, because you only have these few options to choose from.

~~~
dvfjsdhgfv
> Contacting different sites about a specific topic to show your relevant ads
> is going to take an incredible amount of work.

I see a great opportunity here.

------
tyfon
I've often tried to explain to marketeers at work that marketing to the wrong
people will create negative sentiment and lower sales, but I can never get
them to do any tests of it. It's all about having the maximum number of people
to spam.

Personally I'm trying to avoid products where the ads manage to penetrate my
"firewall" either by breaking the law (DMs even if I am registered not to
accept those), public space advertisement or email spam where I didn't sign up
for it. Both the email spam and DMs are illegal to do here if you don't sign
up for it so I report them all to the local authorities.

~~~
LaundroMat
I am rooting for someone to find a way of making ad aversion measurable so
that marketeers can finally take it into account.

~~~
tyfon
I often get the feeling that they don't want to know this because it
invalidates large parts of their work.

~~~
Nasrudith
Yeah - people look at me like I am crazy when I mention it but the marketing
of the /advertiser/ is actually more relevant than the actual conversion rate
given fuzzy attribution.

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ratsmack
There is only so much people will put up with, and it seems that we're
inundated with advertising from all sides. When most ads were in print, it was
easy to avoid them, but now they are forced into every electronic media stream
available.

On the web, I have never used an ad blocker and have just closed the page if
the advertising gets to be too much in my face. It seems that it is getting
worse all the time, because it is a war between the advertisers and ad
blockers and people like me are stuck in the middle.

And then YouTube is showing longer ads every day, with many in the 5 minute
range. And when you're trying to watch a video that is only 3 minutes long,
why would you watch a 5 minute advertisement?... it doesn't make any sense.

~~~
visarga
For Youtube it makes sense to pay. I did the jump and it was worth it - no
ads, play music with locked screen on the phone.

~~~
rumori
It almost looks like Youtube intentionally raised the number and length of ads
before and after videos while heavily pushing Youtube premium alerts to make
people sign up for their subscription. No matter what you do, they win.

~~~
Majestic121
I don't mind if they win as long as I do as well.

Relationship between consumers and business don't have to be adversarial : I'm
glad to pay for a product that I consider worth it, and having the choice to
pay with money instead of brain time with ads is a clear positive to me.

~~~
pmoriarty
For me a much better solution would be to get content out of the hands of
profit-seeking companies.

------
WilTimSon
For me, the problem is that there are just a few categories of ads, each with
their own problems. Video or audio ads (YouTube, popups, Spotify, etc.) -
usually way too loud or too long (hey, listening to Judas Priest? Now check
out 30 seconds of Ed Sheeran's new song), and seemingly totally random.

Sidebar ads - usually something completely useless at best or outright spammy
sometimes ("You're our 5000th customer, click to win!")

Feed ads - Twitter, Instagram, other social media. These actually manage to
offer things that I care about because they probably have good tracking
algorithms.

I've found that the few cases where I've actually paid attention to an ad or
even, gasp, clicked on it were the feed ads. So, yeah, I hate the first two
categories. Of course I do, they're absolutely useless and the first type is
also intrusive.

The catch is... I dislike the third kind as well. Because it leeches off of my
privacy. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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ololobus
If we abstract away and understand that we are not representative here, then
we realize that people actually love ads in general. Just take a look on some
Instagram star profile with thousands of active followers, it is full of
integrated ads and sponsored content. Then check some general/tech news, non-
professional one, sponsored content sometimes is more than half of the whole
website.

So actually people hate those old-fashioned ad banners and pop-ups, but
currently the advertising industry is more about integrating hidden ads
everywhere and personalizing it as much as possible. That speaking, if you are
not deeply into privacy and anonymity or just turn off you ads/track blocking
stuff, then you will see how personal ads could be. They are not entirely
correct, but more and more often I found them horrifyingly personal and
targeted.

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_ph_
I don't hate ads.

I hate to be tracked, I hate to be harrassed (blinking, flashing ads,
inappropriate ads), I hate to be exposed by malware.

There were times, when I actually liked ads - when they appeared in reputable
magazines for specific topics, be they hifi, sports I have interes in or the
national geographic magazine. They all were tasteful and actually interesting,
as they were targetted. But not targetted by the stories some cookies seem to
tell, but by the topic of the magazine. Much higher chance to show me
something which actually interests me.

The cardinal mistake was selling off add space to networks which would decide
which ads to place instead of traditional add placement. And to be too greedy
and overdo ads until they couldn't be tolerated any more.

Bonus points in the almost globalized age: show me ads for things not
available in my region.

~~~
kop316
Hear hear. I don't mind ads as a concept. I sign up for several email
newsletters because I like seeing the ads and knowing what's going on. I have
a Nintendo Switch, and I go to their "News" section to look at what new games
are coming out.

I hate that giving an inch for ads means tracking, malware, harassment, etc. I
hate that I have to be skeptical to give any personal information to any
company/institution, as 999/1000 its sold and used for ads. I hate that this
is a wealth of information for people to steal and use for nefarious purposes.

------
sunstone
I don't hate ads. What I hate is when ads track everything I do and everywhere
I go and then keep a running dossier of all that and sell that information to
third parties. It's a complete breakdown of trust between a seller and a
buyer.

------
SaturateDK
I really do hate ads, and I've even worked doing ads both for web and TV.

I want to pay for my services, and would like real micro transactions, maybe I
read an article i really enjoyed - I want to be able to pay for this, as a
donation.

I'm pretty sure we need to look beyond ads for funding services and websites.
I'd much rather pay, and while I know not everyone wants to pay... if we could
push this behavior, it would really make the web better.

Personally, I have adblockers, privacy badger and even AdGuard/PiHole on my
network.

So to all creators, let me pay you, even a tiny amount. I'm aware that
transaction fees are en enemy here, so maybe that's a problem to fix?

~~~
mschuster91
> So to all creators, let me pay you, even a tiny amount. I'm aware that
> transaction fees are en enemy here, so maybe that's a problem to fix?

There are models for this (e.g. Blendle), however they suffer from the same
problem as Spotify did and Netflix does: the content creators (newspapers,
studios, labels) lose the direct connection to their audience and cannot
upsell them any more or gather data about them.

This is why newspapers employ massive amounts of trackers and why studios
build their own crappy streaming service instead of licensing to Netflix.

The only idea I see to fix this is regulatory: require rightholders to license
their content under FRAND terms to aggregators. Otherwise the negative
incentives of modern capitalism will block a user-friendly solution.

~~~
werm82
I'm generally for heavier regulation vs. rampant capitalism, but regulating
what media companies can & can't do with their content isn't the answer. That
feels like it'd be heading down the path to a state run media.

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the_snooze
I generally dislike online ads and block them aggressively, but there is one
case where I tolerate (and even enjoy) them: podcast ads. Among the podcasts I
listen to, their ads fit the context of the show, and the producers sometimes
add their own entertaining twists to them (see: Reply All). This effort and
editorial control make me feel respected as a consumer. The advertisers and
producers have skin in the game in terms of their reputation. It’s also nice
that this format doesn’t really allow for individual behavioral tracking.

------
catalogia
Most people don't categorically hate ads. They hate _some_ ads, and really
like other ads.

Here is an ad, a movie trailer, that has 232 million views:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZfuNTqbHE8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZfuNTqbHE8)
People voluntarily seek out some forms of advertisement and jump through hoops
to avoid other forms of advertisement. The nature of the ad in question is a
huge factor. If the ad industry has a problem, it's being bad at their jobs.

~~~
oblio
I wonder what it says about me or about the product you're linking to, that I
guessed it would be an Avengers trailer before I clicked the link.

~~~
catalogia
It seemed like the best example since the mass market appeal seems undeniable.

------
AegirLeet
I do hate ads, but I don't hate them because they're irrelevant, not
personalized enough, too silly, too frequent or anything like that. I hate
advertising as a concept and nothing is going to change that.

I don't care how much the advertising industry tries to adapt, it's not going
to help. I just want that entire industry to stop existing and I know many
people (especially young-ish people like me) who share that view.

------
simplicio
I dunno. I'm indifferent to mildly annoyed by ads themselves. On the other
hand, over my lifetime, I've probably consumed tens of thousands of hours of
content and made use of countless services paid for by advertising that I'd be
hard pressed to afford if I had to pay directly.

So I guess I'm pretty strongly pro-ad, even if they're occasionally annoying.

Plus I've gotten a decent chuckle out of some of those Geico ads.

------
novaRom
Google Business Model:

"Get dominance on the market, establish a Monopoly"

1) Invest long-term, offer free attractive services, don't expect any profit
during first several years

2) Implement locked-in methods

3) Wait until monopolic position secured and majority is locked into your free
service

4) Start monetization and track feedback. Optimize to find perfect tolerance
with long-term profit maximization as objective.

5) Enjoy! You are Monopoly.

~~~
rchaud
There should be a Step 0 to indicate that every product idea lives or dies on
the degree to which it can be tied back into Google Ads.

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neonate
[http://archive.is/IhDHL](http://archive.is/IhDHL)

------
pontifier
The problem is that ads are the reccomendation system for products and
services, but the reccomendation algorithm is biased toward whoever pays the
most to have their ad shown, not what might be the most most useful product or
service for the person to see.

This is fundamentally broken.

------
rolltiide
I like influencer marketing where people just do things because someone they
are entertained by does it

I was surprised at how effective that is for conversions

Its been hilarious to watch grifters think they could do it just by having
followers

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ddingus
I will, on occasion, see an AD that runs on something of value, or that
engages in some common sense advocacy.

If you can figure out how to do either one better, faster, whatever, I do not
mind those. And I remember who took the time to be considerate enough to
create them too.

Got nothing else. Hate inane ADS right along with everyone else.

------
bump64
This article has 5 ads on it, from the top and then every 3 paragraphs. The
irony...

------
dr_dshiv
Why don't "they" ever ask what ads I _want_ to see?

~~~
cyborgx7
Because the ads someone wants to see, like movie trailers or new products of
interest to them, you go looking for yourself. The big tech and media
conferences are viewed by a ton of people completely voluntarialy. The "value"
of advertising next to things you are seeking out, is showing you things you
don't have an active interest in seeing.

------
artsyca
The worst is when an ASMR video lulls you into a sense of relaxation and
vulnerability and a loud obnoxious ad suddenly obliterates you and sends your
heart racing

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SeanMacConMara
i hate ads i cant avoid seeing because my agency to do that has been
subverted. i will attempt to acquire tools to avoid that in future.

i dislike ads as 99.??% are effectively automated insults.

"buy this or you are lessened"

over my lifetime the ad industry has offered insult to me perhaps 100s of
1000s of times.

------
buboard
The NYtimes may feel immune to advertising woes because they have a paywall
now (even though they still make tons off advertising), but what is the
paywall other than an obnoxious, loud, obstructive full page ad?

I 'm glad to see they are tackling advertising itself though, rather than
fabricating stories about social platforms. The ad industry seems to be very
much lacking in real metrics, and seems to be particularly dumb in innovating,
holding up appropriate standards and protecting their art.

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m4r35n357
At last, the truth emerges ;)

------
bayesian_horse
Another problem: GDPR more or less prevents tracking by requiring informed
consent by the users.

~~~
goatinaboat
How is that a problem?

~~~
bayesian_horse
For the advertisers and those that rely on that revenue, this is definitely a
problem. Without gathering information about users, targeting is a lot worse
and ad revenue will generally decrease.

I'm not saying I'm opposed, just stating this observation!

------
denton-scratch
I get that the capitalist system needs advertising, so that merchants can draw
the public's attention to the existence of their product.

But it's not acceptable for dozens of dodgy ads per page to crash my browser
(so I use an ad-blocker). And it's not acceptable for fraudulent email spam to
take up more space in my inbox than messages from friends and relatives: I've
spent a lot of time over the last 20 years fine-tuning spam filters. Most of
the phone calls I get seem to be from criminals, telling me that ISP X is
about to close my account, when my provider is ISP Y. I haven't found a
solution to that.

Youtube ads seem to have become more frequent and longer in just the last few
months. My response: avoid Youtube. TV ads: I pre-record and fast-forward.

I don't understand why merchants and advertisers seem to think it helps their
pitch to infuriate people.

Perhaps if the advertising industry would get together to drive out these
crooks, fraudsters and scammers, and perhaps not treat everything on the face
of the earth as an advertising medium, the honest merchants might get a
clearer run at their consumers.

As far as I'm concerned, they missed the boat a long time ago - if you
advertise at me without my permission, then I will remember your name and
NEVER consider buying your product.

~~~
rabidrat
> if you advertise at me without my permission, then I will remember your name
> and NEVER consider buying your product.

Unfortunately it seems that their tactics work, because we subconsciously
remember their name but then lose track of whether it was a positive or
negative association. Plus when "everyone does it", it becomes impossible when
actually shopping to reward those who don't do it, because they are
indistinguishable from a fly-by-night/fraudulent brand. So everyone continues
to advertise in the most obnoxious way possible and the noise floor is
permanently raised.

~~~
denton-scratch
Well, brands came about because merchants were adulterating everything -
brick-dust in flour, that kind of nonsense. It was a lemon market - you had to
adulterate to compete. A well-known brand was an assurance that "our stuff is
OK".

So you have to make your brand well-known, otherwise branding doesn't help. I
get it. But covering everything in shouty ads isn't that - it's trying to
manipulate people.

If everyone would adopt my "NEVER consider" policy, the problem would be gone
in six months.

