

I Need Help - turnwhere

I've been an avid reader here for some time. I created an account just now so that I can hopefully remain anonymous.<p>I'm just going to come out and say it. I need help, very badly. I'm close to ending my life. I don't want to appear dramatic, it’s simply the truth.<p>It may seem strange that I'm writing this here. But after everything I've seen, I think this is the right place.<p>In as few words as I can manage, this is who I am. I’ll soon be 30. I started creating digital products about 3 years ago and many companies now sell them. I make a good living from this. I am healthy. In pretty much all ways on paper, I should be happy. In fact, it makes me even more depressed to know there are many people who would be happy in my shoes. Yet I can't be.<p>I've struggled for over 15 years with depression and anxiety. I've been prescribed pills, had therapy and yet I feel almost as bad now as I did 10 years ago. When there's a tiny problem in my work I have an anxiety attack. When I think about my life I feel hopeless and sad. I have deep self-esteem problems. Lately I've been trying to be more positive, to see things differently (because I know everything is just a point of view, especially negativity), but I can't recondition myself.<p>This leads me to my conclusion. All my problems are mental. They are not my circumstances. I have to recondition myself or I am going to kill myself and hurt other people as a consequence.<p>And to recondition myself I know I need something other than therapy, antidepressants and positive quotes. I need to hack my way through this misery.<p>So I'm asking anyone out there, whether you know how it feels or not is not important, for any advice you have. I promise that if it seems reasonable, I will try it.<p>I'm sorry to post this here. I can't help feeling it's pathetic. But I'm desperate. If this is in the wrong place, or I shouldn't have posted it here, I won't be offended if it's deleted.
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stevenameyer
I am by no means an expert but here's my two cents in the hopes that it helps:

1) Stop invalidating how you feel. Just because you feel like other people
have it harder then you doesn't mean that you're not allowed to feel sad or
down. Personally I find one of the most demoralizing things is feeling like
your emotions are invalid, and feeling guilty for feeling bad only makes
things worse. It may not seem obvious but everyone has their freak outs and
times where things are rough and that is ok.

2) It may sound weird but try exploring how the emotions feel. Do they feel
different in different situations? Is it more pronounced in certain
situations? Does the feeling have triggers or feel connected to any aspect of
your life? I find simply thinking about how it feels can help me determine the
source.

3) Find things to look forward to. It doesn't have to be big but it's
important to plan things to look forward to, it helps a lot with getting
through the rough times. Even something as simple as a nice dinner every once
and a while, going out with friends, or even a cold beer after a days work.

4) Seriously think about what makes you happy and what you want to do. Don't
let other people define happiness or success for you because ultimately they
are not the ones who have to live your life.

Hopefully that helped. Feel free to send me an email (in my profile) if you
want, I'll try and help out if I can.

~~~
turnwhere
Thank you for the advice. Point 1 is so difficult. In fact it's why I don't
tell anyone how I feel anymore (in real life, not the internet). It's so easy
for someone to say yea but what about that kid in Africa who doesn't even have
enough water for today. I don't know what to say to that.

I am trying 3 right now. It does help to get you through the day, that is for
sure.

On point 4, my opinion is so weak and changeable that I'm not even sure what I
want. Perhaps I need to build confidence first somehow.

~~~
stevenameyer
At the same time though I'm sure there are people who are a lot better off
then you who still have rough times and feel down. The truth is that everyone
has those times, and just because your not in the worst situation (you can
always find someone in a worse situation) doesn't mean that it's not ok to
feel how you feel.

As far as finding what you want it is a difficult question to answer. A lot of
people struggle with it. My suggestion would be try a lot of new things that
you think you may be interested in. Take some time to be a little selfish and
figure out things about yourself you may not have know. It can be really easy
to lose sight of who you are as a person when there is so much going around us
so sometimes we just need to take some time and focus on us.

------
rauar
Definitely _not_ the wrong place. Glad you do not give up and try to do
something against your current situation.

You should seriously get professional help. From what I read you seem to have
had a therapy in the past and it doesn't work anymore. Did you try any
alternatives ?

I'm sure other commenters can recommend professional where you live.

Wish you the best.

PS: I'm everything else but someone with good advice but to me a combination
of medical therapy and mental training seems to be an idea (so that you do not
rely on only one thing to work out)

Update: due to what you wrote in the 2nd paragraph here is what I found please
make use of it:

[http://support.twitter.com/articles/20170000-suicidal-and-
se...](http://support.twitter.com/articles/20170000-suicidal-and-self-harm-
content-on-twitter)

<http://www.suicide.org/suicide-hotlines.html>

~~~
turnwhere
Thank you for the links. I have called the hotline a few times in the past
couple weeks.. if nothing else it was just because I had to tell someone how
close I was and how bad I felt. I can't tell anyone I know. Partly because I
can't bear the embarrassment, but also because I don't want them to stop me.

------
CyberFonic
1\. Get professional help ASAP

2\. I was in a similar position to you and survived, only just. The key is
that if one therapist doesn't help - find another and another until you find
one with whom you "click".

3\. Medications can work, the tricky part is to find the combination that
works for you. And then to ease off the cocktail once the positive effects of
therapy kick in.

4\. The thought process that saved me was rather simple: If I go ahead with
this self-harm idea it is final. Since I'm willing to chuck it all in, then
why not try ____ and see if it lets me start again from a better base. If not
I can try something else. There's always another day for that.

Anyway, that's what worked for me. But the first step is to keep the dialogue
going and go to step 1 ASAP --- please

~~~
rauar
good advice

~~~
turnwhere
I know that this is good advice, but it's very hard not to find the final part
of suicide the most attractive. When you feel so bad each day, a permanent
solution is what you look for I guess.

------
throwaway99991
Please speak to a professional right away.

United States: 1-800-784-2433 (1-800-SUICIDE) United States (en Espanol):
1-800-SUICIDA United States-veterans 1-800-273-8255, Veterans Press 1
Australia: 13 11 14 Belgium: 02 649 95 55 Brasil: 141 Canada: 1-800-448-3000
Deutschland: 0800 1110 111 France: 01 40 09 15 22 Greece: 1018 or 801 801 99
99 or Greece Iceland: 1717 India: 91-44-2464005 0 Ireland: ROI - local rate:
1850 60 90 90 ROI - minicom: 1850 60 90 91 Israel: 1201 Italia: 800 86 00 22
Japan 03-3264-4343 Netherlands: 0900 1130113 New Zealand: 0800 543 354 Nippon:
3 5286 9090 Norway: 815 33 300 Osterreich: 116 123 South Africa: LifeLine 0861
322 322; Suicide Crisis Line 0800 567 567 Sverige: 020 22 00 60 UK: 08457 90
90 90

~~~
logn
Or if in the US, dial 911 right now.

------
moocow01
Sign yourself up for an MBSR (Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction) class.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness-
based_stress_reduct...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness-
based_stress_reduction) If you live near a major city you should likely be
able to find a certified instructor who conducts classes on a regular basis.

Its not a magic pill but it works and has been around for many many years. I
can assure you it has helped many people in your situation. (I actually wasnt
too far off from your situation when I went through it.) I would also guess
that there may be others here on HN that may have gone through it and could
chime in with their opinion.

~~~
turnwhere
I got interested in Mindfulness not long ago. I think it can definitely help
to make life better. I know I need to be in a better frame of mind first to be
able to learn it though. And then once learnt perhaps I can apply it when I'm
feeling low. I will look this up for sure.

------
orangethirty
First of all, its OK to feel a bit overwhelmed. Life is not so simple to deal
with. We have many pressures to handle.

I want you to know that by posting this you have taken control of your life.
That is the first step towards feeling better about yourself.

I want you to put off any immediate plan you may have. Don't make any quick
decisions. Let time pass for a bit. With your new found control, go and do
something positive for yourself. Get in touch with a family member or a
friend. Let them know how you feel. Have them listen and ease some of the pain
away.

I also want you to go and buy a plant. Any type of plant. Buy the one you
like. Pick the one you think is coolest. Then take it home. Give it a name. I
personally have one plant which is named (don't laugh) Chunky. She has grown
into a very beautiful and strong plant. Water your plant every day at the same
time. Take care of it. What if you forget to water it and it dies? Don't
worry. You can start over again. The wonderful thing about life is that we can
start over again as many times as we want. If your plant dies, then go buy
another one. And so on until you have a plant as good looking as Chunky. I
will be honest, Chunky is not the first plant I took care of. The first seven
died because I would forget to water them, or because I put them in the wrong
type of pot. But you will do better than me. I know so.

If you want to talk with someone, just send me an email. I like to listen to
other programmers.

Above all, take care. I wish you inner peace.

~~~
turnwhere
This is a really sweet reply, and I appreciate it a lot. Unfortunately in my
current circumstances I can't buy a plant, as I am abroad and not in my home.
When I return I will do so. I like how you look at life - always being able to
start again.

~~~
orangethirty
Keep me posted through email.

------
DanBC
Consider therapy guided cognitive behaviour therapy; coupled with mindfulness.
Find a good, experienced therapist. Make clear your expectations, and be
confidant enough to walk away if it's not working. You've had an illness for a
long time and have deeply learned behaviours. You need to unlearn some of
those behaviours. You might not be able to fix everything in the 8 - 14 weeks
that CBT takes, but you should get techniques that help you cope and that you
can keep applying over time.

Consider talking to a doctor about medication. I have no medical training, I'm
not going to advise on medication. But there are different types of
medication. There are different types of anti-depressant, and there are anti-
anxiety meds.

While you're doing that you might need to put in some work on building up
resilience. This will include support networks of people to socialise with;
education and work stuff; exercise; etc. It'll include getting your food
sorted out, and your sleep hygiene.

Expect to put in a lot of work.

But good luck!

~~~
turnwhere
I agree, being happier takes a lot of work. That in itself is sad, but I can
accept it.

I actually had CBT last year for 10 weeks. Although it may not have helped
much, I think one or two things did stay in my mind, and maybe still help me
now. When I'm back home I will call up the therapist and ask for more. Just
one more thing which perhaps can help.

My food regime is good. My sleep is ok. I used to exercise a lot but recently
stopped.. probably part of my falling back into another deep episode of
depression.

------
timmm
Try reading books on how to be happy. I know it sounds dumb but I've been
pulled out of some dark depths by reading the material of Tony Robbins,
Eckhart Tolle, and others. They really are good at what they do, I'd urge you
not to write it off.

There are methods of attaining real fufillment and not fleeting happiness.

~~~
turnwhere
I will definitely check out these authors. In fact I'm making a list right now
of all the resources you guys are posting. If I'm going to try, I've got to
try my best.

------
bw00d
[http://www.newsytype.com/14561-magic-mushrooms-
antidepressan...](http://www.newsytype.com/14561-magic-mushrooms-
antidepressants/)

<http://www.dhamma.org/en/vipassana.shtml>

Good luck

~~~
simonster
Please don't take magic mushrooms for depression without the guidance of a
psychotherapist. It's as likely to make things worse as it is to make things
better.

~~~
turnwhere
I agree. I would never take drugs of any kind. I've seen what they do to
people who are generally happy. I can only imagine what they'd do to someone
with negative thoughts.

------
wanttohelp
Not having been in your shoes I feel that my suggestions may not actually be
helpful. But I do want you to know that I and I'm sure many others are reading
your post and we care and want to help.

Looking back through your life, what experiences and activities have been most
comforting or enjoyable? Try to focus on the things that you've enjoyed and
valued.

Here's a crazy idea for you: hike the Appalachian Trail. It's an opportunity
to disconnect and reflect. It's not for everybody but maybe you would enjoy
it.

I also encourage you to seek new professional help. Work with someone new. Try
a new approach. It sounds like current support mechanisms are not working.

------
cjbprime
Sorry to hear you're so low. I'm concerned that you dismiss therapy and
antidepressants so quickly -- I think combined they're a big part of the
approach most people take to get better, so it makes sense statistically to
take them very seriously, right?

I know that it's often hard to find the right antidepressant, though, and it
can involve very painful steps backwards and waiting for something to happen
while you're trying a new one. But if you can bear it, finding medication that
works seems to have been a large part of getting better for the people I've
known who've made it through.

I hope you make it through too!

~~~
turnwhere
Hi, thank you for the reply. I'll try to answer things properly.

I did try various antidepressants, over a period of about 5 years. I also had
a few types of therapy, in total for 7 years. The therapy was the only thing
that helped, except it never cured the underlying feeling. It was like
relieving the pressure on a kettle each week, without turning off the fire
underneath it..

------
jjsz
Since no one mentioned it and everything else from meditation, exercise and
traveling is on here I thought you should know about other drugs like
nootropics. They can help out with motivation, and cognitive feelings rather
than the standard ones you've been using.

If you get to travel, try going to a cold place where everybody is less happy
so you won't get depressed looking at happy people in a tropical island.

Humble down and buy a Huskie and go on an adventure with him for a few
weeks...

The love of a dog can cheer anyone up...unless you're a cat person but cats
don't like to travel, so buy a dog.

------
michaelrhansen
I am not a therapist, but if _nothing_ seems to work (pills, medical
attention, diet), I would suggest doing something else totally drastic - sell
everything you can, take a long deserved break from the digital world and go
on an amazing year long adventure. Find some country to volunteer in for a
year - could be nature conservation related, assisting the poor, whatever.
Don't over think it (but do enough to be safe) and just GO. I might get down-
voted, but shit, that is what I would do.

~~~
CyberFonic
YES! How about getting a rescue dog! You'll be responsible for it, that keeps
you going from day to day. Those adorable little buggers give back your love
many times over.

A friend of mine did that and since he had to walk the dog, met many other
people with dogs and in so doing met a lovely girl and they're now happily
together with both dogs.

~~~
EvanKelly
This is an excellent idea. Living alone can help create an "echo chamber" (for
lack of a better term) for negative emotions. Dogs (especially trained
companion dogs) almost never contribute to these negative emotions.

Having someone/something to care for and who depends on you is sometimes a
substantial boost to one's psyche.

~~~
cowpewter
Yes. I suffered from clinical depression years ago, and the number one thing
that stopped me from ever harming myself was knowing that my cat was
completely dependent on me. Even if I had arranged matters so I knew I would
be found before she could starve or anything, I knew she wouldn't understand
why I was gone. Those thoughts always triggered a huge sobbing jag, but they
kept me alive.

~~~
turnwhere
These are all interesting points. In terms of caring for something, and
something being dependent on me, I know that this would stop me wanting to
kill myself so much - but it would be out of guilt. I already have that
feeling for my mother. I want to find a positive reason to live, instead of
what I see as a reverse negative.

The traveling thing - it's funny you should mention that. A month ago I did
exactly this. I've left my business running and I've gone to another country.
I am trying to spend as much time as possible volunteering, to help other
people, as I thought this might help me. So far unfortunately I have felt very
bad here. I am not entirely sure why. I will be here for another 2 months
before I return.

------
metastrategy
Quit what you're doing professionally, go out and forge a path elsewhere.
Maybe, not in the western world. Go to India, South Pacific, South America.
Find a need there, and start filling that need & see what can come about from
making a different kind of positive change in a persons life.

Maybe, it's digging a well. I don't know, but, what you're doing now doesn't
seem like its gratifying for you. If all of that is a bit extreme, go help out
at a homeless shelter, or food bank.

~~~
rauar
Changing your life is one thing. leaving behind everyone this guy knows
personally and potentially could help sounds like a big mistake... especially
with anxiety attacks and severe depression.

~~~
tylerhwillis
+1, an incredibly important point. Feeling detached/disconnected from the
world is one cause of depression. Feeling disconnected is a logical outcome of
changing everything about your life all at once.

Changing habits/attitudes/etc. is important, but I'd try to do it
incrementally - testing to see if these changes improve your experience, while
focusing on maintaining and strengthening connections to things that you think
make life easier/more enjoyable (could be friends/family or work or hobbies or
...)

[I'm not well versed in psychology, please take this as an idea to start your
own research, and not a prescription of activity]

~~~
turnwhere
Very good points.

As in my reply above, I have in fact pretty much just done this. I went to
South America last month and will be for a few months, volunteering. I left
everything behind and rarely talk to anyone I know. I think I may have
expected too much of myself, being able to handle this. Incremental sounds
more sensible.

------
juskrey
This can sound strange at a first glance, but did you try to cut off carbs in
your diet and go on ketogenic diet? Since carbs are strongly associated with
epilepsy, Alzheimers and dementia, and ketogenic successfully treats many
cases (just google epilepsy + ketogenic etc), in last years big questions
arise about causation of other mental and neural disorders, including
depression.

------
energetic
Accidently I've red your cry for help.Maybe I've an option! You ever have
tried feetreflexion therapie? Sinds 17years I'm that kind of therapist.Please
answer me and I'll be happy to explain you more about the principle from this
treatment . I really hoop you wil react . (siannaia@gmail.com Kindest
greetings Sianna

------
frendiversity
Get on board TEAM JESUS. Seriously. People here don't like it (and most of
them are as depressed as you half of the time), but basically, you've replaced
your spirituality with corporate and technological cults.

~~~
xauronx
That's kind of a silly thing to say: "Most people here are depressed because
they don't have JESUS". I'm completely happy and content with my life despite
my lack of "spirituality".

Also, you don't know this person. Maybe they're homosexual, TEAM JESUS is
really going to help him out there.

I have no qualms with suggesting religion, it helps a lot of people get to a
better place with it's structure. However, don't imply things about others.

------
baconhigh
If you need someone to talk to - reply to me and i'll get you my email
address.

I'm not a professional or anything like that but i've had some person
experience with depression and suicide

------
gamechangr
Go see a pastor. Find people who care about you.

Get professional help as well.

start working out everyday. This alone will make a huge improvement in your
sense of happiness.

------
hasenj
Something like this

<http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xo3VxJiXd7s>

and the other videos in her channel.

------
chicagoblues
Have you tried the usual more exercise and herbal remedies like Kava Kava...
you can also Pray to a higher power... taking one's life is the ultimate
selfish act...

~~~
turnwhere
I've spent more time than I can remember thinking about how suicide is
selfish. It is selfish. Everything is selfish. When someone helps another
person cross the road, it's selfish. They do it because they feel good. That's
not bad, it's life. The issue is not whether it's selfish to commit suicide,
it's what has got a person to that point. If the hell inside my head doesn't
let up, eventually I have to kill myself out of desperation. To see that as
selfish in my opinion is missing the point.

------
subpixel
you're not pathetic - you're reaching out for some help/advice support and
that's actually awesome.

please take cjbprime's advice and work with a doctor to find meds that work
for you. then, when you're feeling WAY better than you are now, try some
lifehacking stuff to see what else can keep you in the best possible mental
shape.

best of luck.

------
dangle
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwZQn65r_60>

~~~
jjsz
:'] YOU DO NOT KNOW, how MUCH this will help you.

~~~
turnwhere
Will watch it tonight.

------
kirpi
i would spent sometime in nature. no car, no crowd, no tv nothing but trees,
animals, all natural sound. thats my dream.i know what i need.

~~~
cstrat
Yes this is great. I love laying on the grass in a big park. Just breathing
and staring at the sky... very relaxing.

If you can't get out to find a park, go watch fish. I find staring at fish in
a bowl is an amazing way to relax your mind. I can totally zone out and forget
my worries just watching a couple fish swim around a tank.

~~~
turnwhere
It's amazing how simple things can be. I wouldn't think of that but it's worth
a go, even if just as a distraction.

------
rauar
Hey buddy,

how is it going after 10 days ?

------
kiep
cannabis

------
Nightrider
My advice: keep your apartment. Don't do anything drastic until you get a
better grip on things. Also ask yourself if you are doing the basics of
staying mentally healthy: exercise, socializing, novelty.

Get back to what you love. Find out where your interests are. Try this, it
worked for me: [http://zerotosuperhero.com/mindhack/find-your-lifes-last-
kno...](http://zerotosuperhero.com/mindhack/find-your-lifes-last-known-
working-configuration/)

Asking for help was smart IMO. Good for you.

~~~
turnwhere
I'm checking out the link right now. Thank you.

~~~
Nightrider
Also, if you want to talk via Skype, email me.

