
China is angered by Apple's iPhone event mentioning Taiwan - HoppedUpMenace
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-angered-apple-apos-big-135832729.html
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zenbob
Is there any argument why Taiwan should be treated as anything other than a
normal, independent country? I know that China wants to claim sovereignty, but
a want is not an argument. I don't mean this as a rhetorical question--I am
curious if there is any coherent argument here?

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suyash
Apple did the right thing, why cave to China's political agenda.

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jdavis703
It wouldn't call it "propaganda." Countries routinely have territorial
disputes. I get China is viewed as a competitor to American interests, but the
situation in Taiwan is historically complex. It would be like if Texas or
California unilaterally seceded from the U.S., various countries would
recognize or not recognize their legitimacy as an independent nation.

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rangibaby
It would be like if the US had a civil war and one side retreated to Cuba

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erikpukinskis
Wouldn't it be like if the U.S. first annexed Cuba, and _then_ had a civil war
where one side retreated to it?

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inawarminister
Indeed. Only a few have any thoughts about the native Taiwanese, both
Aboriginal and Han.

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alexgolive
Puerto Rico was listed separately from the United States, and it's clearly not
a political statement. I think Apple is safe here. Apple should turn this
around and say China is showing its ignorance on US sovereignty over Puerto
Rico :p

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sidcool
Apple's getting a LOT of business from China. It can't and won't afford to
piss them off.

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TylerH
Apple's got a market cap of $1 trillion and $285 billion in cash. It can
afford to do whatever the hell it wants, frankly.

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syntheticcdo
The presenter was even careful to call them "locations" which annoyed me at
the time as PR speak-- and then doubled down and said "someone sees their
favorite country or location".

Chinese propaganda, nothing to see here.

The exact timestamp in the talk:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFTmQ27S7OQ&feature=youtu.be...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFTmQ27S7OQ&feature=youtu.be&t=6056)

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sseibel
Sorry, but Taiwan has been totally independent from China for many decades. I
guess only China considers Taiwan still a part of China.

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sdinsn
China and Taiwan have a long standing agreement that they are both part of a
single China, they just disagree about who should lead it.

So technically, Taiwan considers itself part of China, in an abstract sense.

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philliphaydon
> China and Taiwan have a long standing agreement that they are both part of a
> single China

More info please, this isn't what I know of Taiwan.

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perennate
My understanding is that the Taiwanese government has not renounced claims
over mainland China because doing so would piss off China, who would view it
as a step towards independence.

Aside from escalation of tensions, pissing off PRC would likely worsen
economic relations, which I think would be more damaging to Taiwan than to
China (according to Wikipedia, China is Taiwan's largest import/export
partner).

Absent the political/economic ramifications, I believe only a very small
percentage of Taiwan's population would mind if Taiwan renounced these claims.
Even "pro-reunification" KMT has stepped a bit back from its reunification
stance, e.g. setting conditions like "democracy, economic development to a
level near that of Taiwan, and equitable wealth distribution" for China before
reunification can occur
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan)).

So, for many, the only reason to support an "eventual reunification" stance is
it'd strengthen the economy, i.e., they don't mind China playing its word
games if it means peace and Taiwan prospering.

This doesn't mean "pro-independence" pan-green party ignores the economic
effects. They argue for developing economic relations with other countries, to
reduce economic dependence on China, and thus make independence more
practical.

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mamborambo
The One China issue has long ago morphed from a rational point of consensus,
into an irrational point of oppression.

The attitude has changed drastically, when all the original members of those
discussions have been replaced by next generations, and no one can remember
the original concilliary tones of those meetings, and all that remains are
misunderstandings -- that was how the splits between Catholics and
Protestants, Sunnis and Shias, probably happened, and passed down in
increasingly dogmatic interpretations.

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saagarjha
> commentators on Weibo accused Apple of disrespecting China and threatened to
> return all their Apple products.

Is this a thing that people will actually do?

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gbraad
Yes... But more likely they boycot and stop buying products for extended time.
They have forced companies before to 'change' opinions, but these were related
to quality issues for instance like Ericsson, or local branches of Japanese
supermarkets

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threatofrain
But the fact is from a consumer perspective, you'd actually want to know the
difference between China, HK, and Taiwan. If a company said they offered tech
support in China, would you assume that meant HK or Taiwan as well? I'd
definitely inquire further. While the situation in HK may be evolving, Taiwan
has been de facto independent for a long time, which changes things on the
consumer-level.

Assume at your own buyer's risk. For things like the Apple Watch, I would just
double-check.

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zenexer
The issue isn't that they were listed separately, rather that they weren't
explicitly denoted as being part of China; for example, "Taiwan" vs. "Taiwan,
China".

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markhahn
sometimes China is a dick.

actually, a lot of the time: consider Xinjiang and Tibet. the fact that we
can't afford to shun them as they deserve doesn't mean they're not being very,
very naughty.

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stcredzero
The key points to know about the significance of Taiwan:

Geography is still very significant. The potential for others to base aircraft
and ships on Taiwan keeps China contained behind the South China Sea.

Taiwan is a hard target for amphibious invasion, and amphibious invasions are
hard to begin with. The seas around Taiwan are quite rough, and there are only
two potential beaches for such a landing. The time frame friendly to such an
operation is also quite limited.

Basically, if China keeps on ramping up its blue water naval capabilities,
some kind of confrontation is inevitable between the USA and China over the
South China Sea and the US position as distant ally/hegemon to Korea, Japan,
and other east Asian countries.

China's Geographic Challenge:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8uWoBtCkg8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8uWoBtCkg8)

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r00fus
Not while Trump is in power. Has Trump even staffed the open positions in the
State dept?

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xae342
I doubt many in the Chinese government could explain rationals for the One
China policy any more.

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exabrial
Good? China needs to come to terms with reality. What's happening in the South
China Sea is scary.

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forkLding
I'm fine if Taiwan declares independence but they should stop using the words
"Republic of China" to represent themselves and to renounce their claim to
mainland China, Taiwan isn't China and should never represent China, if they
want to be treated as a separate nation, the first thing they should do is
stop using the name of China.

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CogitoCogito
It is republic of mostly ethnically Chinese. Why would they need to change the
name?

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forkLding
So is Singapore and Hong Kong. Taiwan doesn't represent China. Republic of
Macedonia recently changed their name because Greeks didn't want them to use
Republic of Macedonia. If Taiwan wants to be Taiwan, they should change their
name to Republic of Taiwan, just because Canada is majority English or German
ethnicity doesn't mean its Republic of England. Also they should renounce
their claim to the mainland, thats my biggest concern.

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CogitoCogito
Just so I'm clear, given that the PRC doesn't represent Taiwan or exercise any
sovereignty over it, do you also believe that it should renounce its claims to
Taiwan?

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forkLding
Yes I don't care if Taiwan wants independence or not, I have good friends that
are Taiwanese

