

16 Year Old CEOs, What Has The World Come To? - cj
http://www.brandonpaton.com/2009/11/16-year-old-ceos-yeah-ok/

======
yesimahuman
Young kids use the term CEO because it gives them a sense of importance and
officialness. There is nothing sinister or inflated about it, it's just kind
of like playing house or pretending. You play the part you dream of one day
being.

When I was younger I remember starting "companies" and trying to be really
official about it even though I had zero experience and didn't know shit. Who
cares? It was fun.

~~~
PostOnce
I think more than a few 40-year-old small business owners style themselves CEO
as well, and for the same reasons.

~~~
rimantas
"Boys will be boys, and so will a lot of middle-aged men." - Kin Hubbard

~~~
ALee
In your lifetime, your only young once, but you can stay immature forever.

------
pg
I never called myself the CEO of Viaweb. I just used my actual job title,
which was president. It seemed silly to talk about someone being Chief
Executive Officer of a company with 20 people. But that was over 10 years ago;
fashions may have changed.

~~~
amichail
Don't top academics avoid titles in the US? See for example how many top
academics have "Dr." or "Prof." in the title of their home page.

I suppose the impression is that an academic would only fall back on his/her
title because he/she is not particularly well known and needs some way to
impress others. It looks bad.

Why is this different in industry?

~~~
cj
Someone commented on the site about this.

The difference between academics and business is that "Dr." and "Prof." are
appointed titles, while CEO is self-given without having to meet any
prerequisites or requirements.

~~~
bravura
Miss Manners writes that in academia, Ph.D.s are like noses. You only notice
if someone doesn't have one.

~~~
yummyfajitas
This might not be true in the humanities. I've had quite a few students repeat
the idea that they must call be "Dr.", since the title "Professor" is reserved
for lowly grad students. They tend to hear this from literature professors, so
non-science fields might have different customs.

~~~
scott_s
If someone is calling grad students "Professor," then they are abusing the
term. A grad student who is teaching is an instructor.

Something that I didn't appreciate until I was in grad school was that not all
professors are even "Professor." Becoming a full professor is a big deal. An
"Assistant Professor" is generally someone who has a tenure-track position,
but does not have tenure yet. "Associate Professor" is for someone who has
tenure. "Professor" is for someone who has tenure, and has contributed enough
to the school through research and teaching to earn being a full professor.

~~~
yummyfajitas
The person teaching the class can be legitimately called "professor". It
signifies their position as "that guy teaching the class", not their academic
rank.

Similarly, "that guy commanding the ship" is called "captain" regardless of
actual rank [1].

~~~
scott_s
I just checked the dictionary and Wikipedia. While both allow for "that guy
teaching the class" to be considered a professor, that doesn't seem to be the
standard custom. Both stressed the formality of the title, which is the custom
I'm familiar with.

------
Eliezer
I'll say! Real CEOs should be 14 years old, like Ben Casnocha back when.

(And yes, his company, Comcate, is a real company with employees and
everything.)

Though I do agree with the general principle - it's why I decided that the
title of Research Fellow at the Singularity Institute was more honorable, even
though I could easily get something with "Director" in it.

But there really is a flipside; not everyone gets the countersignalling. I met
with a Congressperson once who told me that if I wanted to meet with
Congresspeople, I should have gotten a bigger title - the phrasing was
something along the lines of "Executive Directors get into the office,
Research Fellows wait outside" (said in a friendly and helpful way).

Similarly, at a gathering of VCs, someone said to me afterward: "When you
introduced yourself as a Research Fellow, I thought you were just a
scientist."

I guess in the larger world, people really do go around judging by titles,
even if from in here it seems like obviously easily fakeable fluff.

~~~
scott_s
You write about signals all the time - this is so obvious a signal that it's
written down next to your name.

------
drp
It's hard to define a concrete point where you aren't being pompous by calling
yourself a CEO, but having more employees (or at least contractors) than
yourself is probably a good start. I find it a little depressing when I'm
reviewing the resume of someone applying for an engineering position and I see
their first job experience listed as CEO or CTO of X, especially if the date
range is before graduating from high school. "Founder" seems like a much more
legitimate, scalable and reasonable option.

~~~
brk
IMO (an I've been on both sides of this, having started a small company in my
20's, and now as a hiring manager at a startup), "owner" is even more
appropriate.

Even "Founder", to me, seems to imply a certain amount of effort was involved
above and beyond the base paperwork.

If your company exists more on paper than in practice, skip the titles and
just list yourself as Owner or "Self-Employed".

Many many many many people of all ages have managed to generate some cash flow
from their determination and inventiveness. It's no great accomplishment, in
the relative scheme of things, to have managed to generate a couple hundred
thousand dollars in above the line revenue.

A Founder or CEO type title is, again IMO, appropriate when you have created
something that has started to take on some life of its own, and might have a
slim chance of continuance in your absence or departure. Or, when you have
managed to convince some non-relative to give you a 7 figure investment.

I just dug out some old business cards from my little venture in the 90's. I
just listed the company name, what we did, my name and contact info. The legal
paperwork listed me as President or CEO, IIRC, but in the day-to-day
operations I was just the guy that ran the joint. The company managed to do a
few $MM in revenue, net me a bit o' cash and employ a couple of people besides
myself.

------
blhack
The term CEO has, largely, lost all of its meaning. CEO is a specific role
within a company; it is not an umbrella term meaning "person in charge of
things". It makes me cringe every time I turn on the television, read an
article, or listen to somebody speak and hear the term CEO used to mean
"person who isn't a cubical drone".

This is especially true if you are the ONLY person in your company. Saying you
are the _chief_ executive officer at least implies that there are other
officers.

------
wallflower
If a 16-yr old CEO has the social acuity, business acumen, and maturity of a
45-yr old CEO, then major kudos to them.

I met a CEO and member of the Young Presidents' Organization (YPO) several
years ago. In the brief time I knew him, he inspired me. I know it's a cliche
but his attitude was infectious and amazing. Every year, the YPO picks a
different city to party and network in. That is the _club_ that you might
aspire to be part of.

Strict requirements. Responsible for full operation of a qualifying (by
revenue) corporation or division by age 45. Yes, they require at least 50
employees (which may be more tailored to traditional business)

<http://www.ypo.org/criteria.htm>

~~~
cookiecaper
>If a 16-yr old CEO has the social acuity, business acumen, and maturity of a
45-yr old CEO, then major kudos to them.

That would be a horrible 45-year-old CEO. If you don't learn something in
those thirty years that can't be applied to give you an edge on a sixteen-
year-old, you're doing something wrong.

Age deserves more respect, imo. It's extremely unlikely that any sixteen year
old would be a businessperson than a forty-five year old.

~~~
wallflower
I can see how it got lost in translation but by no means I was implying that
the 45-year old CEO was horrible (e.g. it's very very unlikely or even
impossible that a 16-yr old CEO will ever be equivalent to a veteran CEO -
e.g. 16-yr old CEO is a near mockery of the title). Much like what happened
when they started giving away Green Berets to non-Green Berets.

------
vaksel
Like getting incorporated is such a big deal.

It's a simple form you fill out and pay a few bucks, and bam, you are now the
CEO of an incorporated startup.

Personally I'd feel weird calling myself a CEO unless my company was making
~60K(basically a salary) or I had some funding to at least prove my
legitimacy.

~~~
philwelch
I'd feel weird calling myself a CEO unless my company was making several
salaries.

------
zaidf
_Truth is, in a few years we won’t be teens anymore. We will no longer have
our foot in the door just because our age is impressive._

Yeah. I sometimes think about what the entrepreneurial funnel for these
seemingly uber bright kids looks like. I've always felt that each additional
year x% of kids that looked like the next (insert some top name) drop into the
average John.

And of course, every year many average Johns that did not grow up as "CEOs"
turn into CEOs.

I've learned my lessons over the years. No more any kind of story around me.
If there is a story, it should be about my start-up. Of course, I am also 22
now but you'll find out the reporters' infatuation with age and hyping up an
individual never really ends.

There are some folks that actually excel from this sort of publicity. They end
up writing a book or two that actually sells. I realized I'm not one of them
and self-publicity is mainly a distraction at least at this point in my life.

~~~
unalone
I'm 19 and in the process of looking for exceptional talents my age to work
with. As I go through people, I find that publicity is never a real indicator
of somebody's success. Most people who're really good at what they do never
learn to promote themselves; a lot of mediocre people develop the skills and
take advantage of media laziness to get mentions.

I've never liked people that pull age. I remember when I was thirteen
pretending to be in high school because I thought that high school was a big
age on the Internet; within a year I'd started to lie about being a college
student because I didn't want to be treated differently than the people I
talked to. As a result, when I see people whose web pages brand themselves as
HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT first and CEO second and don't list any real
accomplishments, I feel a sort of sneer, because I know there're just as many
people that age who're quietly learning to do things till they become
prodigies at the age of 25.

It is fun, though, when somebody discovers your age and fawns over you like
you're some little darling prodigy. Not a wholesome fun, more like a smirking
"You care more about my age than what I've done?" Some people do it because
they think it's polite, but other people sincerely think that young people
must be the smartest people on the planet and young people that know better
laugh.

~~~
zaidf
Makes sense. Though as I said in an earlier post, there are some folks that
are young, can talk a great story, get a book contract and end up making a
decent $ from their writing. I don't see much wrong with that approach though
I know some have a problem with that.

Just like you, I did not tell my age to clients when I was 14-15. But that was
more out of fear. Ones that found out before giving me the project(via sites
like rentacoder/elance) would never pick me. So I quit sharing my age until
later into the project once I'd knocked their socks off. Ironically, I was
able to provide a better service to clients back then than I can today. Today
I care wayyy more about money/ROI. Back then I only cared about the actual
work. Money was almost zero motivation.

~~~
unalone
As a writer myself, I always thought that was kind of an ass-backwards
approach. Writing a story about being young is the cheapest and easiest story
to write. So props to the people who manage it, but I don't necessarily see
that as a success.

I find, funnily enough, that the people who succeed the most past being young
are the people who find passion in what they do at an early age. So embrace
what you love! That's what you'll find it easiest to grow at.

------
Major_Grooves
I find the use of C-level titles in a very early startup fairly pretentious. I
try to avoid using it and just call myself "co-founder" - that is what my
business cards say.

However, we do also get feedback that we need to give ourselves business
titles so that people know who they are dealing with. Last night I was
submitting a slide deck for a presentation I'm doing at an investor conference
in a couple of days. The last slide I did was "The Team" slide. The team is
currently just me and my co-founder. I actually wanted to put "business guy"
and "techie girl" as our titles, but its a fairly strait-laced conference so
in the end I put CEO and CTO.

I did feel a bit awkward doing that, knowing that it's just the two of us. I
am positively cringing now after reading that article!

~~~
asmosoinio
How does "partner" sound? Same a co-founder? Or more like someone climbing up
the ladder in a law firm? English is not my mother tongue which is why I am
wondering...

~~~
Major_Grooves
I would use "business partner" in conversation, but if I saw "partner" on a
business card I would think of some kind of law firm (pretty near the top of
the ladder actually ;) )

------
JimmyL
My father did little when it came to marketing (he mostly sold office
buildings), but one of his few lessons about it was that one should never
advertise their product as "exclusive". If something really is exclusive,
people will start using that description all by themselves - your product will
be in demand but have a very limited and controlled supply. If it's not,
advertising it as "exclusive" just sounds cheap.

I find this similar to the use of the title CEO in start-ups. If you advertise
that as your title, there is no reason you're doing that other than vanity. If
there's one of you, you're not the CEO - you're just the guy doing things. If
there's three of you, then you're just one of the guys who makes decisions. If
there's twenty of you, you have a proper corporate governance structure, and
all you do is manage and plan, then maybe call yourself a CEO.

If you're really concerned about your title between the sizes of three and
twenty employees, you're worried about the wrong thing. If you really need one
for some reason, call yourself Founder (if you founded the company) or
President (if you have the ultimate decision-making power and preside over
decisions). If you don't do either of those things, put the words "Senior" or
"Director of" in front of what you actually do and speak like you've got some
authority.

~~~
yardie
It's just like the word authentic. When I see a restaurant with "authentic" in
the byline I avoid it. If they have to call themself authentic than chances
are they aren't. Authenticity is achieved by x-factor and word of mouth.

When I ran my small company my title was owner. There was only one employee so
it was obvious who "found" it. And sinced I financed it it was me who "owned"
it.

------
dnewcome
At my startup we didn't take CXO titles until we started talking to investors.
Then it was basically expected. People on the other side of the table need to
know who they are talking to in terms of corporate responsibility. I don't
think that the title necessarily reflects the revenue status or anything like
that, rather it is an expectation of responsibility, regardless of whether the
company is at the stage where you actually act in that capacity yet.

------
mlLK
Finally a teenager humble enough to address the ad nauseam idea that teenagers
can be entrepreneurs to. The media (most esp. major media outlets) have been
exploiting this topic ever since they finally acknowledged the internet as a
valid 'media contender.'

A teenager with an entrepreneurial spirit is rare as is and perhaps even
paradoxical in the most stereotypical case, but a teenager disciplined and
willful enough to build a business (web-site/service) attractive enough to
sell and humble enough to remind us they still have a lot to learn is probably
one in a million.

I don't mean to swing on this kid's nuts, I'm merely trying to make the point
that a majority of early-blooming entrepreneurs wearing fancy acronyms/job-
titles assume they know too much too soon and have a hard time adapting their
business and their ego when X takes a turn for the worse.

------
synnik
There have always been 16 year old CEOs.

They used to deliver newspapers and mow lawns and babysit. All that has
changed is what teens to for spare cash, and their self-perception.

This trend is a lot more about labels than about any changes in what young
folk do with their time and talents.

------
krschultz
C-level executive does mean something to people executives at large
corporations, but calling yourself a CEO on your webpage/business card won't
actually make you a CEO for anyone who understands that. If your resume
doesn't say P&L responsibility for >X millions in revenue, don't throw around
the term CEO because you will come across as a braggart. President or founder
are much more accurate descriptions for what most startup founders call the
"CEO" position.

------
spencerfry
The only time I use the term CEO in my title is when I feel as if I have to
convey my leading role in the company _over_ giving the impression that I'm an
everyday employee. This normally only happens over e-mail and with people that
don't really know me or my company.

------
fjabre
Seems like the site is down. Here's the cached version:
[http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:http://www.brandonpaton...](http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:http://www.brandonpaton.com/2009/11/16-year-
old-ceos-yeah-ok/)

------
xenophanes
> 16 Year Old CEOs, What Has The World Come To?

It's come to ageism.

------
anonjon
From the article:

"However, I cringe when I hear the title “CEO” used lightly. To me, it conveys
a lack of humility and a desperate call for attention."

Lacking humility and making desperate calls for attention? High school is all
about lacking humility and making desperate calls for attention. Calling
yourself the CEO of your personal non-incorporated company would be par for
the course, not a shocking breach of decorum.

I can't think its much different than my having pretended to be a wizard doing
magic on the occasional weekend night.

I think that the sad part about this is that teenager's imaginations have
slipped to the level where the geeks among them now play at being things that
actually exist.*

Kids these days...

*= Although I am a lisp programmer awash in a C of embedded systems guys (read: warriors), so pretending to a wizard and saying a bunch of mumbo-jumbo incantations that only I understood (and then blasting my enemies with fireball!) may have been some sort of pseudo-apprenticeship.

