

Starbucks: Stay as long as you want - edw519
http://news.cnet.com/8301-19882_3-10310495-250.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-5

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ajg1977
Very smart of Starbucks.

I feel that some independent coffee shops are being a little short-sighted.
While I tend to favor giving my business to independent shops, one of the
local ones here in SF has recently cut their free WiFi to 60 mins and blocked
all power outlets. I don't really know what that's meant to accomplish, other
than making me go elsewhere.

~~~
anigbrowl
Perhaps you're not the sort of customer some businesses want? Not everyone
necessarily wants to feel like they're on a university campus at exam time or
in the middle of a business park. A bunch of people with laptops is
unwelcoming if you enter a coffee shop primed for chatter and flirting (for
example).

~~~
rdtsc
It seems, there is a sweet spot of how many people you want in your coffee
shop. If it looks empty, potential customers off the street won't go in.
That's the herd effect ("if there are so many people there, then it must be
good").

However, if the coffee shop is full of people with laptops, not buying any
drinks or food, then customers who walk in, hoping to get a coffee and a
muffin, will walk out, because there are too many people there, and not enough
seats.

The goal of the owners is to module the amount of people sitting in the coffee
shop.

They (the owners) can setup a schedule to simply disallow wi-fi usage and turn
the power off on some outlets during certain busy times of day (lunch for ex.)
That is a little subversive because it will be perceived as a confrontation.
The other way to do it, is to simply ask the patrons to purchase more food and
indicate that the coffee shop is struggling financially. Being honest might
work a lot better.

~~~
olliesaunders
That's <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_proof>

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psyklic
I don't go to Starbucks because of their Wi-Fi. Most places I can just walk in
and start using it, but with Starbucks I need to maintain a cash card and
register it online, then after that it has a time limit. It sounds simple to
do, but it's yet another card I need to carry around with me everywhere for no
good reason.

~~~
chaosmachine
This is no longer true.

As of June, all you need is a username and password for starbucks.com. It's a
free signup.

<https://www.starbucks.com/account/create>

~~~
jasonkester
This is no longer no longer true.

I just went through that whole sign up process, and ended up at att.com,
staring at a screen demanding my starbucks card # and pin.

It says you can get your 2 hours a day if you have a starbucks card that
you've topped up in the last 30 days. Just like the grandparent whinged about.

So maybe it got good for a month or two and reverted, but regardless, it's
still painful today.

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aditya
Qustion for hackers: do you actually get any code written at starbucks? I've
always found it too distracting and usually only go there to read...

~~~
jasonkester
I can get a ton of stuff done at a Starbucks. I'm usually more productive
there than at home, actually.

The key is that even though there's lots of noise and people talking, you're
virtually guaranteed that nobody will be talking to _you_. That means you're
completely free of distractions, and, as an added bonus, enveloped in a cloud
of vaguely enthusiastic white noise.

There's this energy around you that somehow inspires you to actually do some
interesting work rather than slack off and read the internet. You want people
walking past to see an IDE and some cryptic-looking code on the screen, rather
than pictures of cats with funny captions. The whole experience is a bit of a
feedback loop.

When I lived in the States, I would routinely head off to a Starbucks to work
away the morning, leaving my comfy home office & wifi behind to do so.

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nico
Here in Chile you can stay as long as you want and there are no time
restrictions on the free WiFi. Almost every other day I spend a few hours
working at a Starbucks.

Recently a Colombian competition, Juan Valdes, opened a few shops here, but
they restrict the free WiFi use to 60 mins. You don't see a lot of people
working there.

~~~
bmj
* Almost every other day I spend a few hours working at a Starbucks.*

This is, I think, the crux of the issue. Most indy shops don't mind this--it's
the people who are there for 8 hours at a time, nursing a single cup of
coffee. I work several hours per week at my neighborhood cafe, but I'm
attentive to how much money I spend and whether I'm taking up table space.

I do agree that many cafes are, perhaps, over-reacting, but at the same time,
I can understand the root problem.

~~~
brandon272
Are there really that many people spending 8 hours a day in a coffee shop that
they feel that it's wise to restrict access to everyone?

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madcaptenor
They might say that. But for whatever reason I'd feel a lot less comfortable
staying in the nearest Starbucks for a long time (say, a few hours) than in
any of the independent coffee places in my neighborhood. This might just be
me, though.

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bitwize
Starbucks typically has for-pay wifi. Independent coffee shops offer free wi-
fi, at least the ones I've been to do.

The result is always the same: the place is MOBBED with people who park there
with their third-quarter projection analysis spreadsheets while customers
looking to sit down and eat must get it "to go".

I like coffee shops. Sometimes I like to sit and park and hack. But I can
understand the reasons why they implement policies like this. Starbucks just
found another solution to the problem, which seems superficially to make them
look less like jerks: charge for wi-fi.

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showerst
Why not just segregate your coffee shop a little?

Have a large number of small, work-centric tables, then a 'laptop-free' area
with larger tables, and maybe some comfy chairs and couches. Have a big polite
(or goofy) sign that suggests one side is for chatting and flirting, and one
for writing and nerding.

I'd put the laptops near the windows so the place always looks full, but
likely has free space in the back.

Tryst in Adams Morgan in Washington DC turns their wifi off on the weekends,
which also seems like a reasonable compromise.

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gruseom
I'm a little surprised. I always thought Starbucks' stores were set up to
_discourage_ people from staying there too long. Still, it's a smart move for
them to appeal to that demographic. If I were getting turned out of my
favorite local cafes and found a welcome at Starbucks, I think what the author
says is true: it would change my perception of Starbucks and probably create
some loyalty. Happily, though, that isn't my experience. I'm off to the second
floor of Red Rock in Mtn View as soon as I post this!

~~~
jsackmann
I'm pretty sure that Starbucks does do some things to discourage people from
staying there a long time. One thing noted in this and other threads is the
availability of outlets. In some larger SBXs, there are tables with power
strips; in smaller ones, there may only be one or two tables where you can
plug something in.

But where things get more interesting are the subtleties. Before I got an
office share, I did a lot of tutoring in SBXs, meaning I'd be there for
sometimes 6-8 hours at a stretch. One thing I noticed in multiple locations
was that the music would change--dramatically--every so often. (Maybe every
hour, I don't know.)

People think of SBX as having pretty standard cool jazz, laid-back r&b...the
genre that might as well be referred to as "coffeehouse." But when it changes
up, it can be jarring. Go from Norah Jones to an old Charlie Parker recording,
and it is at least subconsciously disturbing. It's never blatant, never music
that says "don't stay!" to someone just walking in, but enough to say, "time
to change gears" to someone who settled in to one type of music.

Of course this is all supposition on my part. But there has been tons of
research done by Musak and others to determine buying patterns based on
volume/music type/etc., and if it makes it easy for SBX to _say_ one thing
while ever-so-gently nudging people out the door, it seems like a great way to
get the desired effect.

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chrischen
Why don't they charge for the wifi too instead of just restricting it?

~~~
jamesbritt
They might do well to charge a fairly low rate, basically "Not free", to weed
out some subset of people who come for the wi-fi. People who _only_ want free
wifi may be the kind of people less likely to buy drinks.

They'd free up some seats but not put off every laptop user.

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jasonkester
I always found it strange that Starbucks charged for Wifi. Glad to see they at
least give you a little for free these days (even if it requires some serious
hoop jumping).

It amazes me that there are actually still coffee shops in the world that
don't offer free wifi. It's so cheap to set up, and so obviously good for
business that it just doesn't make any sense not to do it.

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apowell
I wanted to support my local franchised coffee shop rather than Starbucks, but
the WiFi was too unreliable. It's a huge downer when you're ready to get into
the zone and the WiFi doesn't work.

Starbucks makes you jump through hoops to log in (via my AT&T account), but
it's fast and it works every time.

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adrinavarro
It's not cheap, and that, at least, is good. But in Europe you won't find free
Wifi and power outlets, and you'll probably look stupid with a laptop in a
coffee frequented by lots of tourists.

But there's no other place to stay with your laptop, so... nothing to do
there.

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macco
The solution to the problem that laptop user consume not enought ist not a ban
of laptop, but a change in serve. Ban self service and laptop user will order
more coffes. That is real old school coffee house feeling, much more inspiring
anyway.

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Keyframe
Why would one want to stay in Starbucks at all - their coffee is awful,
awful..

~~~
dkokelley
They sell more than coffee.

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drawkbox
co-working places and coffee shops might hook up better in the future. It
could even be a source of revenue, it could even go further, small co-working
malls.

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schammy
They don't care if you stay as long as you want because you have to PAY for
the freaking wifi. Duh.

Most coffee shops give you free wifi so yes it is kind of abusive to buy a
$1.50 coffee and stay for hours. However, if you have to pay for the wifi, I
don't see the problem with staying indefinitely.

