
Redditors earning $100k+ a year, what are your secrets to your success? - acangiano
http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/frw5l/redditors_earning_100k_a_year_or_other_high/
======
flyosity
One thing I've noticed (throughout my career, and by talking to friends in the
software industry) is that there seems to be a ceiling on how much you can
make as a software engineer at "a company". The exact amount really isn't
important, but if you're relying on one company to pay you a higher and higher
salary every year, at some point they'll probably stop jumping you up the
salary ladder. Or you'll be forced into management to get the bump you want.

On the other hand, if you're a consultant/contractor, you're spreading the
money across a number of companies. A company might not want to pay a full-
time employee $200k/year, but they won't fret over paying a contractor $150/hr
for a few weeks/months of work. The company is happy because, on paper, the
one-time payment to a contractor is a lower number, and the contractor is
happy because they can jump to the next company after this contract is up. My
friends in the software industry who make the most money tend to follow this
route. Or, they wrote a Top 10 Paid App in the App Store and got rich that
way, but that's a little tougher :)

~~~
acangiano
> there seems to be a ceiling on how much you can make as a software engineer
> at "a company".

There is. I like to think of this in terms of income scalability. At a
company, you are limited to scaling your income vertically, unless you have
equity. Owning a company, or part of it, your income can scale horizontally as
well.

------
jswinghammer
I think being the sole provider for my family for the last ten years I've just
assumed I needed to make more money year after year. I can't really ask my
wife to go out and get a job to make up the slack so I get out there and try
to be the best programmer I can be. If a company sounded cool but wasn't
willing to pay me what I need to provide for my family I just move on. Given
the lack of tech talent there isn't much excuse for not making that much if
you're a programmer.

I always laugh when I read people say that great developers (not saying I'm a
great developer) don't care about money. Often times that's written by people
who don't have children to provide for. I have no choice but to care what I
make and therefore it's an important factor for me when choosing a job.

~~~
dwc
There's a point of diminishing returns to increased income, and it's personal.
I have a family, yet I took a job paying _less_ than the previous job because
it was _enough_ money and I _really_ wanted to work there. Later, when my wife
was unhappy at her lucrative job I encouraged her to switch to a lower paying
position at a different company where she wouldn't be so stressed. We still
make _enough_ money, and our children are happier since we are happier.

The "don't care about money" thing isn't really true; you must care about
money to some degree. But there are people who would rather do things that
make them happy than always go for the biggest paycheck.

~~~
robryan
It's really I don't care about money after taking care of expenses and having
a little left over to splash out every now and then. I think it's more
commonly used in terms of the engineer deciding between $100k and $200k under
vastly different conditions than the engineer deciding to work for free or
very low pay.

------
Locke
Earnings are important, I'm sure -- but don't mistake them for wealth. I've
known people with ludicrous earnings who still lived pay check to pay check.
In fact, I suspect it's all _too_ common.

Here's an eye opener: You're a mid-level employee at a medium-sized company
and you realize you're as wealthy as your spend-thrift CEO who is making >10x
as much as you are.

~~~
SageRaven
This is very true.

My last two tax filings showed I [edit: grossed] less than $15,000 for the
past 2 years, yet I generally have more discretionary income now than the
years when I was making ~$50,000/yr. I also have a wife and two kids.

I have no debt of any kind (house and car owned outright), am quite frugal,
have two monthly bills (phone/internet and power), and three yearly bills
(property tax, car registration, and auto insurance). Telecommuting from a
rural area helps, as does raising some of our own food.

Sure, we don't live like kings, but my kids always have both parents around
and we live a good, simple life. I'm not rich, but I feel quite wealthy in
terms of quality of life.

~~~
riledhel
_I'm not rich, but I feel quite wealthy in terms of quality of life._
actually, that's all that matters.

~~~
SageRaven
I like to think so.

I don't want to give the impression than I'm down on anyone earning (or
aspiring to earn) large amounts of money. At one time I aspired to break the
$100k/yr mark by age 30 (certainly not too ambitious, but it seemed doable at
the time).

Obviously I had a change of heart in the intervening years, and so far I'm
quite pleased with things. To each their own.

------
xenophanes
Tip 1: Be born American. If that doesn't work, emigrate.

~~~
nl
Tip 2: Be born white or Asian in America. [1]

Tip 3: Be born in a rich country with a growing middle class

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income#Median_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income#Median_household_income_and_the_economy)

~~~
marknutter
From what I've seen, it shouldn't matter what color you are. Correlation is
not causation.

------
Tyrant505
From someone who's been failing startups since 2000, I can't imagine what I
would do with that much money... It's really baffling..

~~~
acangiano
Sadly, 100K isn't that much these days if you have a family and you live in an
expensive city like Toronto or New York.

~~~
redthrowaway
Vancouver here. 100k is really only enough for a very middle class life.

~~~
jamesshamenski
Totally disagree. I've lived in Van for 15 years and it's hilariously more
affordable than LA or NY (where I am now). The Mercer 2010 survey put Van at
#75 in the world which was surprisingly one spot ahead of Toronto.

Sidenote: the job market of Vancouver is much slower and lower paying than
what's happening state side.

~~~
cheez
"I lived in Vancouver for 15 years."

Translates to:

"I bought a place 10 years before the epic bubble of bubbles."

Vancouver real estate is INSANITY.

~~~
biot
You mean spending $700K for a house a half notch above a fixer-upper isn't
sane? :)

~~~
redthrowaway
700k? What dream world are _you_ living in? What I wouldn't give to be able to
buy a house for 700k. Relevant:

<http://www.crackshackormansion.com/>

The worst part about that site: It's a year old. It's worse now.

~~~
biot
Apparently the insanity hasn't spread to the North Shore to the same degree.

------
bnr
Minecraft's Notch replied:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/frw5l/redditors_e...](http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/frw5l/redditors_earning_100k_a_year_or_other_high/c1i6wmo)

~~~
SkyMarshal
And here's another really thorough response further down that thread:

[http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/frw5l/redditors_e...](http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/frw5l/redditors_earning_100k_a_year_or_other_high/c1i6sy9)

\-------------

entrepreneur_taway:

I run a start up media company. I am 26. This year I've made over $100k.
Here's how. ... TL;DR:

1) Work for yourself

2) Borrow [build a credit rating buffer]

3) Become an expert, but fake it in the mean time

4) Sell constantly

5) Hire labour

6) Fire bad apples

7) Look after key accounts

8) Charge properly, make profit

9) Be targetted in your sales/marketing

10) Expand

11) Keep control

12) It is a hard game

13) Give them no ammo

Additions:

14) Have principles

15) Decide fast

16) Read

17) Learn from mistakes

18) Flexibility

19) Embrace risk

~~~
apl

      > [...]
    

Well, that's just a random collection of business book platitudes. Have
principles, flexibility, embrace risk? Seriously?

------
Terry_B
I'm surprised by the lack of answers talking about market forces.

I know many people who think that doing a job that is complex and hard
automatically entitles you to money and complain about people with much easier
jobs, who aren't as smart, making more than them.

------
pdaviesa
IMHO the largest salary jumps happen when you switch companies. Once you start
with a company, you're pretty much locked into their payscale and salary
increases happen in much smaller increments. Ideally, you would stay at a
company long enough to get the requisite experience for the next career level
and then switch to a new company and negotiate a healthy salary bump. With
that said, my highest paid friends are typically the most dissatisfied with
their jobs - something to consider.

------
feverishaaron
Be careful about chasing a dollar amount. $100K is pretty baseline for someone
who has technical/design etc. skills. Moving into the $200K+ salary range
often means working a lot of overtime, which leaves little time for enjoyable
pursuits, or side projects which may eventually earn far more than that extra
$100K a year.

~~~
baddox
$100K baseline? That sounds like you're talking about entry-level, which can't
be right regardless of where you live. I believe that the mean annual income
for a software developer in the USA is about USD 75k. I found one estimate as
high as 90k. In non-coastal areas (even big cities in the Midwest, Texas,
etc.), entry level positions requiring a 4-year CS degree are commonly
45k-60k.

~~~
oniTony
Entry level at top tier companies such as Google/Facebook/Amazon/Microsoft
will break $100K if you include signing bonuses and stocks.

I suppose those are the exception though.

~~~
baddox
By "entry-level," I mean a first job for an individual. Do those companies
often employee programmers with no previous job experience?

~~~
kooshball
Of course. Microsoft and Google are likely the biggest recruiters for cs
students.

~~~
akgerber
Usually those CS students have had multiple internships and/or research
experience, however.

------
harshaw
Marry someone making $$ in a different field. I'm surprised this hasn't been
mentioned more :) I'm married to a dentist but I know plenty of hacker types
married to professionals (doctors, lawyers, etc).

side note: it is _very_ easy to get to a point where you have no time to spend
your money - and you won't know it until all of a sudden you have no time
anymore for the fun stuff.

------
kujawa
1) live in San Francisco and code for a few years. 2) there is no step 2.

2a) on St Patrick's day, despair that you've already paid more in rent this
year than your father in Montana will pay _all_ year.

~~~
bretpiatt
Agreed, comparison of San Francisco in $100k to San Antonio, TX where I'm at
now...

Comparable salary in San Antonio, TX $58,363

If you move from San Francisco, CA to San Antonio, TX....

Groceries will cost: 24%less

Housing will cost: 66%less

Utilities will cost: 13%less

Transportation will cost: 11%less

Healthcare will cost: 15%less

~~~
spoiledtechie
Your also missing something though. The amount put away into a 401K is much
higher in SF then in San Ant. TX. I would much rather work on San Fran for a
few years, make a ton for my 401k then move some where cheap and rural in my
30s. San Fran people also have more cash for trips compared to Antonio.
Overall, The higher salary is better in the long term.

~~~
joshhart
I'm doing this now, but the higher tax bracket (not to mention the California
taxes in general) make it not nearly as nice an option as it could be.

------
ww
Alternate between billing really high to fix really really screwed up projects
and billing a bit lower but taking interesting projects that you can use to
update your skillset. I've made 125kish a year contracting this way in the
non-major, low cost-of-living cities. Plus these contracts typically last up
to _5 years_ so you have better stability than contracts of 6 months. This is
just one way, but its an easy way. I've been doing this since 1996 throughout
the midwest and southern states.

~~~
quickpost
How do you find these contracts? Especially, before you broke into the
industry and created a large network of contacts?

~~~
ww
I really never had a large network of contacts. I just used DICE and the like.
My technique is just do as many interviews as possible when it's time. If I
wasn't so lazy I would market myself better. I have a bunch of other rules but
they are for when you are already on site. I can post those too if you want to
know.

------
waterside81
Kind of tangential, but here's a list of people on the so-called "Sunshine
List" - _public_ employees making over 100K in Ontario (Canada). By law, they
must disclose their salaries to the public.

There's _lots_ of them. And they're not all super-qualified engineers or
hackers. We're talking transit employees, teachers, principals etc. Not to
demean those professions, but not typically the professions that come to mind
in the US when people talk about 100K salaried positions.

[http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/publications/salarydisclosure/20...](http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/publications/salarydisclosure/2010/)

------
jrockway
Have some clue about programming. Work for a company with money.

I hear college grads are making $80k out of school at tech companies these
days. A few years of keeping your chair warm and you should have no problem
getting to $100k.

------
rdouble
Move to Australia and become a tiler.

~~~
prawn

      1. Move to Australia
      2. Take up one of many trades (tiling, concreting, wiring, plumbing)
      3. Answer your phone. Respond to emails quickly
      4. Show up when you say you will, quote when you say you will
    

From my experience dealing with trades working on my house, I am confident
that any tradie who is able to do these basic things would have work on tap
and expand with lackeys quickly.

~~~
nl
That'll make you a millionare!

For 100K you can ignore steps 3 & 4, and you'll still have more work than you
can deal with.

------
teuobk
The secret -- the difficulty -- isn't one of having a $100k+ income so much as
it is not spending it all. Live like you have a $60k salary, and not only will
you still be able to afford a comfortable lifestyle, but you'll also be able
to put away tons of cash.

As for actually finding those jobs? If you're willing to do
consulting/contracting, ask your friends who are doing consulting/contracting
for large companies. They're the ones who are most likely to be in the know
about opportunities.

~~~
AJ007
In the US not if your paying taxes :) Make $100k, pay at least $20k to the
fed, then whatever else to state, make your bare minimum contribution to your
retirement, and you don't have tons of cash left over. Makes $200k and live on
$60k, and your going to do alright.

People who live paycheck to paycheck and/or borrow money for personal
consumption drive up the cost of living. If your trying to be modest but not
live someone in welfare it become instantly evident of how much you need to
make. Personally I think you should target to spend about 30% of your income.
So, make $100k, live on 30, make $1m live on $300k.

------
rmundo
alwaysagoodtime had one piece of advice that really resonates: Find the right
woman/(man) or don't have one at all.

And I recently reread a PG article where he says he only had a gf two months
in the three years he was working on Viaweb. Good to keep in mind, but I read
it, and then promptly forgot. Lesson learned!

------
loboman
How much is 100k a year in the US? I thought it wasn't so much for good
programmers, at least in SV. Is a 100k programmer something unheard of in the
US?

~~~
flyosity
It really depends on where you live. $100k in the Bay Area or New York City is
a good salary but doesn't go that far after you pay for the exorbitant rent
and other high cost of living expenses. Compared to Raleigh, NC (southeast
U.S.) where I live, $100k goes pretty far and is a very good salary for a
software engineer since living costs are so much lower.

------
andr
Perhaps this is off-topic, but going from $0 income and $0 savings two years
ago to mid-6 figures has not affected my happiness. The things that have made
me happier have all been free or fairly cheap.

~~~
dansingerman
Money doesn't make you happy, but not having money _can_ make you unhappy.

Not that it always does; it depends on your dependencies, in both senses. With
a wife, child and mortgage I would be pretty unhappy if my income dropped to
0.

------
jsna
Ha. For the record, I'm an artist and make less than 6000 a year, for nearly a
decade now. As you can imagine, I have very few expenses.

------
megamark16
Here's an interesting comparison of Software Developer salaries, according to
Indeed.com. I kept trying to find a city with a lower average than Kansas
City, where I live, but of the ones I tried we still get paid the least (on
average).

[http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=software+developer&l1=Ka...](http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=software+developer&l1=Kansas+City,+MO&q2=software+developer&l2=San+Francisco,+CA&q3=software+developer&l3=New+York+City,+NY&q4=software+developer&l4=Miami,+FL&q5=software+developer&l5=Austin,+TX&q6=software+developer&l6=Minneapolis,+MN&q7=software+developer&l7=Seattle,+WA&q8=software+developer&l8=Chicago,+IL&q9=software+developer&l9=Salt+Lake+City,+UT)

------
jdbeast00
work for the government? i wouldn't call it success though

~~~
OstiaAntica
One-fifth of the federal govt earns six figures or more.

[http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-12-10-federal-p...](http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-12-10-federal-
pay-salaries_N.htm)

~~~
nl
So roughly the same as the US population as a whole, where ~16% make > 100K.
(Note that this percentage is of all workers, including part time workers.
Part time workers are under represented in the federal government workforce
compared to the broader workforce)

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States)

------
natch
Do you mean to ask what are the secrets to earning more money? Keep learning
valuable skills, do good work, ask for more money (or ask for ways to
potentially earn it, e.g. stocks), all while changing jobs from time to time.

------
mlgrinshpun
There are a couple of comments in this vein already, but I still feel
compelled to clamor against such an unreflective regurgitation of the word
"success." That so many commenters are diving headlong into this cesspool by
applying back-of-the-envelope statistical analysis and makeshift sociology to
establish some mythic threshhold for entry into this elite is dismaying and
speaks to a serious cultural void in the community. We might as well start
whipping out the rulers and unzipping our pants right now.

------
bane
Get a valuable skill, some experience and carefully build your resume.

It doesn't even have to be a skill in high demand, even a hard to find skill
can be extremely valuable to an organization.

------
eliben
How should such sum ($100k) be counted?

Do you take a company car into account?

Bonuses?

Yearly stock grants?

Employer deductions into pension?

Or is it just the base salary?

Because all of this can make __a big __difference

------
tastybites
$100k isn't successful, it's the bare minimum as a professional. If you're an
engineer, all that's required to earn that much is show up on time and be good
at your job.

The cold, hard truth is if you don't earn at least that much, you either suck
at your job or suck at negotiating. Your bosses and many of your peers earn
twice as much as that.

Edit: _IF_ you work in the corporate world. Clearly if you're a lifestyle-
biz/consultant working over wifi at the beach in Thailand this doesn't apply
at all. In fact, congratulations, if you're this guy, you probably win the
game.

If you asked a lawyer, a CPA or a banker if they'd take $100k to work their
ass off for a corporate master, they'd laugh in your face.

Edit: It's quite typical of HN when this topic comes up for someone to be
downvoted by people who make very little money when they come out with the
cold, hard facts. This place is full of millionaires and super-successful
entrepreneurs who mostly stay quiet in threads like these. Wake up and smell
the coffee.

~~~
petercooper
_$100k isn't successful, it's the bare minimum as a professional. If you're an
engineer, all that's required to earn that much is show up on time and be good
at your job. The cold, hard truth is if you don't earn at least that much, you
either suck at your job or suck at negotiating._

This appears to be true of the Americans I know but this level of salary is..
uncommon amongst the Europeans (particularly the British) I know. I know you
weren't speaking for other countries, but salaries are a lot 'flatter' over
here.

Contractors will be earning at that level without too much difficulty but for
a typical full-time employee to be earning $100K in London, say, they'd need
to be an experienced manager or be into the 15+ year point of their career in
my experience. It's night and day from the US experience.

This is part of the reason I work for myself. If I were in the US, I could
earn $100K full-time pretty easily with my skillset. In the UK, it would be
_really hard work_ getting a similar position. Self employment wins for that
here since I can just have American customers used to American prices anyway
;-)

~~~
willyt
$100k == £60k. 60 less 33% / 12 = 3300 take home per month. London rent for 2
bedrooms is about £1500-2000 anywhere you would want your kids to go to
school. £100 for commuting. £200-£300 for food. Car £150. Local tax £200 ...

~~~
petercooper
That's why it's not very common for young professionals to live alone in
London. Anyone earning a typical software developer salary in London and
renting somewhere _in town_ at £2000 a month just for them is a fool. Most
people live out in the suburbs and commute in or live with other people and
split the costs. You can get a nice flat in somewhere like Croydon or Kingston
(hardly bad places to live and only 30 minutes out on the train) for £800 a
month - call it £1000/mo after council tax and utilities. Split that with the
girlfriend/roommate and you're spending peanuts.

All that said, the point is that £60k/$100k isn't a _common_ salary for this
sort of full-time worker outside of management or in an early stage of their
career (<10 years). Clearly people _are_ managing on a lot less because that's
what people are earning. The most common solution for the older family types
is to have multiple earners in the home which, again, splits the costs down. I
can't think of any British family I know around my age where both partners
aren't working except for me and my wife..

~~~
bruceboughton
Never thought I'd see living in Croydon discussed on HN. (I currently live in
Croydon, very close to the station, for commuting into London)

~~~
petercooper
I used to live in Warlingham so Croydon often comes to mind :-) You think
that's weird though.. you try bumping into people from Lincolnshire on here
(where I live now). It happens!

~~~
willyt
Well I wasn't earning anywhere near £60k when I moved away. But it's not an
unreasonable salary for soho creatives or a random job in the 'city' with 5-10
years experience. I used to live in Clapton about 6 years ago just off the
'murder mile' it was a bit like living in 'the wire', but we were younger and
didn't care. We shared a two bedroom basement flat between 3 people and the
rent was about £900. The second bedroom didn't have any windows. I'm sure you
can find rents below £1300 for two bedrooms if you go further out. But you pay
in train fares and commute time, especially if your office isn't central. You
need two incomes for sure, but when you have young kids all of the second
income goes on childcare as both earners need to be out of the house 11hrs per
day. That's why we recently gave it up and moved to the country. Is that why
you're in Lincolnshire?

------
jsavimbi
Time and experience. A kid out of school isn't going to crack that figure
because a) they have no real-world experience and b) if any of the more
experienced people find out they'll have a brain drain on their hands. Yes,
you'll hear stories about this and that, but always ask for a pay stub as
proof when someone opens their mouth.

I've been making over $100K for several years now and even though I recently
joined a startup, I held the rate up over other offers. The key is to work
somewhere that requires specialized skills and understands the value of hiring
someone experienced who can self-manage their work on various aspects of a
project and produce results that will win more business. Make your
contributions a positive part of the bottom line and you will receive no
hassles.

I tend to work with technology-first firms, avoiding business-first firms as
they tend to view developers as resources, not assets. Also, in this day and
age, if you don't write code or have an intimate IP unique to the product, you
don't get a seat at the table and you should steel yourself for a sales job or
worse.

Also, keep your skills fresh (edge, not bleeding edge) and avoid dreamers, MBA
types and serial wantrepreneurs.

