
Will Work for Food and Lodging - swombat
http://www.jacquesmattheij.com/will-work-for-food-and-lodging
======
terhechte
I love this idea. I live in Germany, and (as pointed out in the text)
carpenters can still be seen from time to time during their journeyman years
(which is called "Wanderschaft" or "Walz" in German). Slightly OT but here's a
picture of what it looks like when they walk across the country [1] I always
found this concept deeply fascinating because these people get a chance to see
many things from different perspectives simply because they move out of their
local village, which many people never do.

The application of this concept on modern trades like software development is
certainly very interesting. I'm tempted to think that the biggest gain it
might have is that one (as the journeyman) can get quick insights into the
deep differences between workflows and company culture in the various
companies one approaches. I mean, we all know how different the current
employer compared to the previous employer can be, now imagine having such a
switch every 1-2 weeks.

[1] [http://www.berufsausbildung-
bau.de/images/Wandergesellen.jpg](http://www.berufsausbildung-
bau.de/images/Wandergesellen.jpg)

~~~
eetduddet
Seriously? I don't see how it could even be interpreted as sarcastic. Those
clothes do not look like clothing that is worn by carpenters in my country,
and they also do not look practical. Why would you want to be sawing wood and
carpentering in bell bottom pants and a floppy hat, for example? The outfit is
obviously not entirely directly related to sawing and hammering, unless they
saw or hammer with walking sticks in Germany. I don't know, so I asked... Is
this site not for discussing things? I apologize for not knowing everything
about the culture in your country.

~~~
lisper
FWIW, I think hellbanning that comment was WAY out of line. It sounded like a
sincere question to me. In fact, it was a question I was wondering myself. In
any case, for such a severe sanction, the commenter surely should have been
given the benefit of the doubt.

~~~
jacquesm
That account appears to have been hell-banned a while ago, see comment
history.

------
gaius
One nitpick, journeyman doesn't mean "on a journey", it's journee man, from
the French as in, a person paid a day rate for their trade. The next step up,
a master, would be paid for completed items, and could employ others.

~~~
raldi
Seems like more than a nitpick; the whole premise of the article is that
journeymen weren't paid, other than room and board, and you're saying they
were, in fact, paid a daily rate after all.

~~~
Blahah
I think the premise of the article is that jacquesm wants to do the thing he
said he wants to do. The journeyman thing is just a nice way to set the story
up.

~~~
jacquesm
Yep. There are a lot of ingredients that went into this, conversations with
friends, reading up on the history of guilds / tradecraft. I realized there is
no way I could actually revive the journeyman concept, especially not given
the obligations that I already have and we don't have a guild to start with
nor any of the traditions that come with it.

But it served as a nice starting point and ingredient in the soup. Lots of
offers (and interesting ones too, nicely fitting with the spirit of the
request) already.

This will be a very interesting year.

~~~
Blahah
It's a great idea. When I get home from work and discuss it with my other
half, I'll be sending an offer too :)

------
Joeboy
I haven't really thought this through, but I'd like to shamelessly take the
opportunity to piggy back onto swombat's #1 post:

Barring disasters, in early 2014 I will be leaving the precariat and can stop
being the money-grubbing mercenary I've been for the last few years. I don't
exactly have fuck you money, but I should be able to get by on less than
£~10kGBP / $~15kUSD a year. I'm currently based in London, UK.

Some things I like the idea of working on are Free Software, encrypted /
federated communications, Linux audio, C and embedded software. I've dabbled
in all of the above but am not particularly accomplished at any of them. My
core skills are python / web development, but I've done plenty of other stuff
and am willing and able to learn. Hopefully a look at
[https://github.com/Joeboy](https://github.com/Joeboy) will indicate that I am
basically able to do computers.

If anybody has a job (or part of a job) for me, please get in touch via my
website, which is on my HN user page.

~~~
cpach
If you haven’t seen them already, have a look at HN’s monthly ”Who’s Hiring?”
threads:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=whoishiring](https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=whoishiring)

------
macrael
I think that, in America at least, one of the few professions where this truly
is alive and well is medicine. After four years of training you become a
Doctor, but then you spend the next 3-5 years as a resident before you start
to actually practice. Hospitals are these complex learning institutions where
people in various stages of training are involved in everything to keep them
learning.

~~~
grey413
Academia in general sticks surprisingly close to the guild model. You have
professors as masters, postdocs as journeymen, grad students as apprentices,
and undergraduates as initiates.

~~~
dragonwriter
Academia is _designed_ on the guild model, though the original correspondences
are more: undergraduate students = apprentices, graduate students =
journeymen, graduate degree holders = masters

~~~
cperciva
_undergraduate students = apprentices, graduate students = journeymen,
graduate degree holders = masters_

Closer, but still not quite right. The concept of graduate students is quite a
recent one; and until recently the MA was the standard _undergraduate_ degree.

This is still seen at Oxford and Cambridge: After 3 years of study, you write
examinations and receive the BA, whereupon you leave the university; 4 years
later, you receive the MA. (And until very recently, upon applying to receive
the MA you had to certify that you had "continued to practice" in the
intervening years.)

~~~
_delirium
A masters being the standard undergraduate degree is still roughly true in
Denmark, though in a bit different format. The traditional undergraduate
degree was a single 5-year program. Under the EU's Bologna Process
harmonization, this has been split into a 3-year BA/BSc, and a 2-year MA/MSc.
But in part because this is recent, many people see a BA/BSc as only 60% of a
degree, not a place to stop and go get a job. So getting a Masters to
"complete" the undergraduate program is still sort-of expected, though not
everyone does it.

Unlike in the U.S., Masters and PhD students are therefore not lumped together
as "graduate students". Bachelors and Masters students are instead lumped
together as "students", i.e. people who are taking an undergraduate education,
often living in dorms, and receiving a small stipend (the SU) to support their
cost of living. PhD students, by contrast, are junior research staff, employed
with a proper salary (typically ~$50k), living in their own apartments or
houses, entitled to attend departmental meetings, etc.

------
nsns
Sounds like the way Paul Erdős spent his entire life...
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Erd%C5%91s#Personality](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Erd%C5%91s#Personality)

~~~
georgemcbay
Hopefully minus the benzedrine.

------
iandanforth
It would be interesting to set up an AirBnB style site for this. I'd love to
host burgeoning talent in exchange for some code / design / ee / me work.

It would be a pretty cool tradition to "do the rounds" prior to getting your
first big job. Or even as a sabattical for more experienced programmers. 2
weeks to a month here, maybe 2 months there. Get a lot of experience and
hopefully some recommendations in a short period of time.

------
braveheart1723
There are many sites online where you can exchange work for lodging.

[http://www.helpx.net/](http://www.helpx.net/)

Here was a nice article on spendin a Christmas working in beautiful locations
rather than stuck home.

[http://www.theguardian.com/money/2011/aug/12/working-
holiday...](http://www.theguardian.com/money/2011/aug/12/working-holidays-
made-easy)

~~~
_delirium
If you fancy farming, there's one dedicated to that as well:
[http://www.wwoof.net/](http://www.wwoof.net/)

------
thenomad
REALLY interesting idea - tell me you'll be blogging this?

It might be of use for people considering taking you up on this offer (and I'm
one of them) to know roughly what your skills are - I know you say you're
versatile, but no-one can do everything.

Or is the point that you want to do things outside your current comfort zone?

~~~
colechristensen
>no-one can do everything

Anyone can be taught to do (pretty much) anything if they're willing.

~~~
akie
I'm sorry to be the buzz-kill, but that's simply not true.

~~~
colechristensen
This attitude is a disease in our culture. I challenge you to name a single
task an able-bodied human with a sound mind cannot be taught to do and explain
why.

~~~
jacquesm
\- Play the violin

\- Jump higher than the world record holder

And any other task that requires more than just being able-bodies and a sound
mind.

~~~
jeroen94704
I guarantee that anyone who puts in their proverbial 10,000 hours will be able
to play the violin. For certain values of "play", of course. As with beating
the world record holder of any sports discipline, the real top performers have
a combination of the right genes, and the dedication to perform at the highest
level. And while you probably won't be able to beat the world record, given
enough practice/exercise, any able bodied person can become a decent jumper.

~~~
aestra
For what definition of able bodied and what definition of decent?

------
sushimako
Big up for a great journey ahead! I've (kindof) been living a version of this
lifestyle you're describing for >2yrs now. Reading your story now makes me
smile, seeing the similarities in retrospect.

When i started my journey, i basically just ended my lease, got rid of the
stuff that wouldn't fit in my back-pack and went off with a vague idea of
living like a "modern nomad". But i didn't really have any idea how that could
work or how it would even feel like. It's important (and often hard) to let go
of clinging to expectations. Any too-specific thoughts about yourself in 6mon
from now _will_ be smashed. You are in the process of gifting yourself the
freedom from "needing" a plan for (e.g.) "next summer", next year or your
pension.

Some highlights of my journey so far:

* designed and built a light-projection/"hologram" art-installation (learned: VJ software, some stage-building, event-production)

* helped a small team fighting through the infamous last 20% of their hostel project (learned: carpentry, metalworks)

* helped a family whith the groundworks for their eco-community in the jungle of costa rica(bridge building, gps-surveying, swingin' da macheteee)

* some burning man projects (organizing camps, carpentry, electronics/arduino/LED circuits, 2 small art-cars, learned how to build and design hexayurts [0])

* helped kick-off/co-founded a warehouse-community in SF

Almost the entire time I've been active IT-wise as well, ranging from co-
founding startups, helping others out, private fun projects or sometimes
freelance jobs to keep me over the water, financially.

Sometimes i sleep in hostels, many times at (new) friends. Sometimes you
freeze, feel lonely, have no motivation, everything sucks. Suddenly, sooner
than you'd have believed, you wake up in a huge beach-house with a crazy-
beautiful oceanview. Be someone who others appreciate having around. This
heavily involves giving in some way or the other (physical help, IT help,
cooking help, babysitting, talking, being a friend, paying). Try to find out
what works best for you; which of your options of giving are the most fruitful
(e.g. in terms of learning or new friends!) and which ones just a means to an
end (for me, paying/money is often (but not always) on the latter end of this
spectrum).

You're up for some good fun, my friend. Just always remember to go with the
flow learn to embrace change/insecurity.

[0] [https://flo.jottit.com/moonberry](https://flo.jottit.com/moonberry) *fmt

~~~
jacquesm
Thanks for all your kind words. I think quite a few bits & pieces of your
advice apply to general living as well, and I feel a lot of them are already
present in my current life.

I like your dome! Here's one I did a while ago:

[http://pics.ww.com/v/jacques/stjoes/dome/](http://pics.ww.com/v/jacques/stjoes/dome/)

------
einhverfr
A thought here.

We've become way overcredentialled as a society. There are a lot of things
where comp-sci degrees are genuinely helpful and a lot of areas where they are
required for no real reason other than HR gets too many resumes.

This idea of an apprentice/journeyman/master progression is something I think
has tremendous potential in the tech industry. A lot of it can be learned by
doing, and for the theoretical stuff, a good Master ought to be able to teach
it or provide materials for self-study.

I would like to see this idea take off more.

------
ChuckMcM
Now that my kids are out of the house this sounds like it would be very
rewarding. I'll have to chat with the spouse about something like this.

~~~
jacquesm
If I can help make it happen in some way let me know. Feel free to use my
farmhouse as a base if you plan on doing this in Europe.

------
austenallred
If someone else is paying for food and travel, why limit yourself to a certain
geographic area? If someone wants to pay for you to fly to and from Australia,
I say let them do it - it would only add to the adventure.

~~~
jacquesm
I pay for the travel (at 1 liter per 15 km that's manageable for a two week
stint), also I want to be within driving distance of my other responsibilities
in case something bad happens (you never know...).

------
justincormack
Richard Sennett's excellent book "The Craftsman" has a lot about the history
of guilds and the training they gave, as well as relating it back to software.
Well worth a read.

------
emeraldd
I can't help but think of Mike Rowe's Dirty Jobs when I read this post. It's
also one of the best uses I've seen of that Heinlein quote!

------
falcolas
Didn't apprentices' families have to pay pretty dearly to get their "food and
lodging"? Also, weren't they pretty much indentured servants to their
"Masters"?

Viewing history through rose tinted glasses aside, this seems like a great way
to expand your knowledge. It would be great if something like this could be
expanded further; institutionalized as part of the software development craft.

~~~
gallamine
> weren't they pretty much indentured servants to their "Masters"?

I guess it's somewhat like the massive student loans modern students have. You
couldn't pay the master what he was worth, so you paid in other ways.

~~~
boyaka
And plenty of people that would otherwise be part of a family are whoring
themselves out these days, probably to help with those loans and others.

------
tcdent
I applaud your appreciation for diversity.

Taking it a step beyond occupation alone, I currently believe it to be a
necessity for a healthy and contented life; specialization, due to imbalance,
causes harm. Excessive amounts of one type of physical activity (say, running)
can cause tissue damage, excessive amounts of most foods (including water) can
be toxic, excessive sleep even has shown to be harmful, etc.

The only way to avoid overdoing one activity, is to incorporate more of them.
Don't think of this as a purely physical practice, either; casual reading,
learning and thinking apply as well.

This is not easily accomplished when one is expected to devote a majority of
their waking hours to a specialized task, however. Nomadism seems to
compliment this way of thinking well, as does homesteading.

------
bearwithclaws
This is great, Jacques! If I'm within your 1000KM radius, I would send an
offer in a heartbeat. Though I don't think there's any project I have that
would interest you, but would be really awesome to learn house building.

------
mrlithic
A couple questions around this idea.

Are there any liability issues? Could a company who suffers damage from a
Journeyman's work hold them liable.

Would there need to be contracts ion place. The wayward traveller arriving and
working for lodging and sustenance may not be as easy as it sounds. Especially
if there are IP issues etc.

I like this as opposed to the current scholastic intern system which in some
cases seems to create a division between those students who can afford the
work experience and those who cannot.

Does the German practise have some form of legal or legislative backing behind
it? It would be interesting to understand how this operates in these European
countries.

~~~
jacquesm
That's the spirit :)

------
Taek
I think there are parallels between the Journeyman of the past and the college
student of the present. You spend lots of time learning under different
people, and often you travel (internships and co-ops) making less pay than a
full professional (or no pay at all).

------
adelle
I would like to piggy back on this post to mention that I'm willing to work
for Latte, especially if you also have a shower or food. I'm based in Sydney,
Australia and you can find me on LinkedIn.

~~~
jacquesm
maybe leave the link to your linkedin page?

------
PureApeshit
I am the true Nomad!
[http://www.homelesstribe.com/](http://www.homelesstribe.com/)

------
rogerthis
will work for food and housing for me, wife and kids. i would legally relocate
to the usa

------
Dewie
"my base (Amsterdam) [...] Some stuff I’ve done over the years: [...] designed
a windmill"

Fitting

~~~
jacquesm
For some more info on that:

[http://www.jacquesmattheij.com/how-to-build-a-
windmill](http://www.jacquesmattheij.com/how-to-build-a-windmill)

And the sequel:

[http://www.jacquesmattheij.com/how-to-build-a-windmill-
ii](http://www.jacquesmattheij.com/how-to-build-a-windmill-ii)

------
notastartup
I'd be interested to see if embedded systems development or engineering in
general took this route. Imagine not having to study the textbook but learning
the ropes from a master who will teach you, I think one can learn the fastest
by being taught without memorizing lecture notes or reading. Simply someone
teaching their tips and tricks and following through. it's an interesting
concept.

~~~
eru
Ideally, you'd combine both approaches. Books do have their uses.

------
x2468
Isn't this the guy who squats on domain names?
[http://www.jacquesmattheij.com/auction-of-domains-for-
sale/](http://www.jacquesmattheij.com/auction-of-domains-for-sale/)

~~~
jacquesm
Ah, it's you again. You are apparently unable to see the difference between
squatting and buying something then selling it at a later point in time.

Please read:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybersquatting](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybersquatting)

And note that every domain I have was bought and paid for from whoever owned
it previously or registered from the free pool of domains. Also note that a
significant portion of those was developed at some point or other but I chose
to shut them down.

~~~
nested
Wouldn't "intent to profit from the goodwill of a trademark belonging to
someone else." apply in this case considering you are holding onto a bunch of
domain names that you are not using? It is implied that someone is going to
use that URL as a trademark of sorts, since it will usually describe their
project/business.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticybersquatting_Consumer_Pro...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticybersquatting_Consumer_Protection_Act)
says "The law was designed to thwart “cybersquatters” who register Internet
domain names containing trademarks with no intention of creating a legitimate
web site, but instead plan to sell the domain name to the trademark owner or a
third party.[3]"

Isn't that you?

~~~
jacquesm
Which trademark do you mean?

~~~
nested
It's not which; It is when. That is why you hold them, no?

