
LG signals plan to put Wi-Fi in every appliance it releases in 2017 - pareidolia
http://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2017/01/lg-wi-fi-in-everything/
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bostand
I sure hope they also plan to provide security updates for the lifetime of
these fridges (10-20 years?) and make them update without any need for user
interaction.

~~~
gogopuppygogo
Even if they do offer updates will they engineer the updating system properly
for devices that aren't connected for a while?

Sounds like an "of course they would, who wouldnt?" situation.

Well, I have a Sony Bravia KDL46EX520 that I bought in June of 2011. It wasn't
connected to the Internet for a few years while I used a PS3 with it. This
year I moved, ditched the PS3 and decided to use the built in apps. I tried
connecting to the net with both the USB dongle for WiFi and over Ethernet. The
TV told me it had a connection but none of the internet features would
connect. The built in software update tool also told me it couldn't connect.

After messing with my network, swapping cables, swapping switches, I went
online and found very little documentation about my device.

Finally, as a bit of a last resort, I found a Sony support page where you can
download the latest firmware and put it on a USB drive. If the USB drive is
compatible with the Sony TV (no list of compatible devices is provided) then
it will update the TV.

I got lucky and my USB drive was compatible and the TV updated.

After updating the TV's smart features work again, I can use Netflix and the
software update tool says it can not find any newer version of software
available.

If I wasn't technical I wouldn't even think to look online for some obscure
software update procedure. Sony really dropped the ball on this. So badly that
even though I love this TV I went and bought a Samsung unit for another room
to hedge against future situations like this.

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Zach_the_Lizard
My wife had a Kindle that was really out of date. It wouldn't connect to the
store or find updates.

I had to put an update on the device using a laptop and then restart, which
then updated the device. However that was still too old, so I had to repeat
the process before it was fully up to date.

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mcbutterbunz
Was this the update? I remember Amazon made a pretty big attempt to notify
everyone at least a month before the date but I imagine it would have been
difficult to reach everyone.

[https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...](https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201994710)

~~~
Zach_the_Lizard
I think so. My wife had the Kindle stored away somewhere and found it again,
so we didn't know about it. She hadn't used it in at least a year, maybe two.

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chris_wot
I'm signalling plans to stop purchasing anything from LG in 2017. This is
going to be a security nightmare.

~~~
dingaling
It gives me the impetus to set up another SSID that just loops-back every
packet to its sender.

I was going to suggest not even associating them with an AP, but knowing how
vendors code their software they'll probably overcome that 'problem' by having
them search for and attach to the first open AP they find. So I might as well
make that one be MyNullRoute.

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gruez
What's the advantage of this instead of not connecting to any wifi networks?

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jungletek
Software that doesn't respect user settings. In this case, the fear is that
wifi-capable devices may just associate with a random unsecured access point,
on purpose but 'covertly', to send and/or receive unknown data, at the behest
of the manufacturer.

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petre
The DDoS attacks of the future will to be caused by refrigerator, washing
machines, TVs etc. along with surveilance cameras and routers. And the 2.4 GHz
commercial band radio spectrum is going to get so crowded that legitimate WiFi
shall be rendered useless.

~~~
Freak_NL
This is probably the nastiest part of the whole Internet of Things hype. There
is so much stuff that now comes with internet connected functionality that
securing it all is simply not manageable. Sure, a household may demand that
their smart thermostat keeps working reliably and securely, but how about the
smart TV that's connected to WiFi, but is only used as a (classic) dumb
screen? Or the talking doll the kids got for Christmas that talks back? (Yes,
this is a thing!) Or the baby monitor? Or any other plug-and-play webcam?

All of these devices are by design capable of performing HTTP requests, and
can be exploited to perform DDOS attacks. There is no economic incentive to
keep these devices secure once the warranty runs out, yet hackers do have a
lot of interest in hacking whole classes of devices.

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codingdave
> Alexa isn't an inherently bad fit for a refrigerator

I think people are forgetting the purpose of a fridge. People already store
food that doesn't need to be kept cool. They already throw out food based on
dates stamped on packaging, not condition of the food. And they keep spoiled
food in the back, forgotten. The fridge is a terribly mis-used kitchen device.
So unless Alexa somehow develops a way to interact biologically with the
contents, I do not see it as a good functional fit for that device.

~~~
dictum
> So unless Alexa somehow develops a way to interact biologically with the
> contents

This pipe dream overlaps with something I've wanted since I became a reluctant
bodybuilder: an appliance to measure the macronutrients of a meal, or at least
a viable, reasonably priced calorimeter.

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Lio
Back in 2013 some LG TVs were caught scanning users' networks and connected
drives.[1]

At the time I think LG said that this was a mistake. Even taking that in good
faith I would still be wary of connecting any LG consumer appliance to my own
home network.

[1] [http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/11/lg-smart-tv-
snooping...](http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/11/lg-smart-tv-snooping-
extends-to-home-networks-second-blogger-says/)

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baybal2
I imagine my fridge showing me ads. 10 years ago, an idea that online ads will
be put into offline software seemed ridiculous, but now that admob cr@p is
being put into every piece of 'begware'

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justinsaccount
That's fine.. What's more of a problem is that the device will not have an
open platform or even an open bootloader and be unsupported and obsolete in a
few years.

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wonko1
Looking through their site the cheapest home applicances that LG sells are
microwaves.

They cost on the order of 100USD for the cheapest models. The cheapest Wifi
"IoT" microcontrollers are on the order of 1USD.

Seems like it might be a reasonable business move, even if it's just a box
ticking exercise.

I'll be surprised if they do put them in their lowest end products though.
Perhaps those product lines are stable and won't be updated in 2017?

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d33
It's not just about a microcontroller, it's also about developing the software
and them supporting and maintaining it.

~~~
wonko1
I guess I was looking for a lower bound. I'll be surprised if they can manage
to implement this on their cheapest products.

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dictum
I look forward to the "we couldn't foresee the security risks, we cannot be
held responsible" non-apology in 2022.

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e40
If you don't want your LG device to connect to anything, then don't feed it
your SSID and password. (I don't have any unsecured networks in range of my
house, so there's no way LG devices could connect without me doing something.)

I have a Samsung TV. I never hooked it up to my wifi, so it's a dumb device.

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redorb
These type of try-hard (every appliance) efforts are crazy... The market
hasn't demanded every appliance based on the sales of connected devices
currently. I'd guess if they did do every appliance they quickly reverse and
offer non connected devices very soon after.

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Animats
As the article points out, their "smart fridge" costs more than a regular
fridge plus all the electronics involved. This has been an ongoing problem
with LG since they put a tablet in a refrigerator door and raised the price by
about $1000.

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stuaxo
A fridge with a glass door would be better.

Or if you want a techie solution, glass that can be toggled between fogged or
not.

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regularfry
This is such an obvious (and obviously good) idea, there must be a reason it's
not done. Is it because it's difficult to get glass with the right thermal
insulation properties?

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jschwartzi
If you go to any convenience store, you'll see this exact solution keeping
drinks cold. The problem is that the refrigeration unit has to be running all
the time or heat will enter through the glass.

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Ericson2314
Heat via radiation? So would blinds not work?

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manojlds
Is that a valid headline, more from an English usage point of view. LG didn't
threaten to do anything really. It is just that it can have bad unintended
consequences.

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culturestate
It's totally valid and was obviously written with tongue firmly in cheek - the
author (or their editor) is just having a little fun and suggesting that
adding wifi to e.g. a stove is a consumer-hostile move.

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omeid2
Consumers have the luxury of voting with their money.

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ensiferum
Already it's getting difficult to find dummy versions of consumer appliances
such as televisions. They all have Craproid or CrapOS now and all the bugs and
problems, security breaches and vulnerabilities that come with it.

A fridge has a 10-20 year expected life span as it is. Anyone think that _any_
manufacturer is seriously commited to maintaining software for that duration
of time? In fact I'm going to speculate that having the software become
unmaintained would be used as a marketing incentive to have people renew their
fridges every couple of years.

~~~
omeid2
No, currently they seem to be really bad at this, judging from cases like
"Can't sign in to Google calendar on my Samsung refrigerator"[1].

But, isn't this exactly how big names get replaced by more modern and
technologically savvy alternatives? or at least, the big names gets forced to
adopt?

[1].
[https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/calendar/Uhfp...](https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/calendar/UhfpcwO0X0c)

