
Did Google Just Kill Ogg Theora? - jasonlbaptiste
http://newteevee.com/2010/04/14/did-google-just-kill-ogg-theora/
======
metajack
The goal of the Xiph.org Foundation was never make Vorbis or Theora take over
the world. The goal was to provide royalty-free multimedia codecs. If VP8 is
open sourced and they make the required patent grants, the world gets a
royalty-free video codec. We win.

We worked on Vorbis and Theora because no one else was going to do it. Here we
are a decade later on the cusp of much of our dream finally coming true.

disclaimer: I co-founded, managed, and still sit on the Board of Directors of
the Xiph.org Foundation.

~~~
mortenjorck
I think it's fair to say your efforts paved the way to a world where a major
corporation could actually consider this. You may not have struck the final
blow for video codec freedom, but the victory is very much yours as well.

A sincere bravo to you and the Xiph.org Foundation.

~~~
ZeroGravitas
Xiph's Vorbis is the only audio codec that's suitable for use alongside a
hypothetical Google royalty-free video codec.

Well it's not the only one. Xiph's CELT and Xiph's FLAC are probably
interesting too for certain use cases, and maybe the upcoming IETF Wideband
codec that Xiph are helping standardize. And they appear to be working on
their next-generation audio codec, Ghost, again too, so that's one for the
future.

So yes, well done Xiph.

------
psranga
On a related note, somebody once explained to me why India develops
satellites, missiles, rockets, fighter planes, nuclear reactors etc which are
sometimes half-assed at great expense over many decades when they can probably
buy the same things ("comparative advantage" and all that jazz).

The reason is to force sellers to sell their highest-end goods, or to
negotiate on price. Because India has it own reactor tech, it has a stronger
hand when negotiating with GE/France/Russia to buy reactors. For instance,
they can ask for technology transfer and license to manufacture too instead of
just a reactor.

So Ogg Theora wins even if it dies, because it kept the Free video codec idea
alive until a big backer such as Google emerged for the idea.

Thanks for all the work, Ogg!

~~~
sketerpot
India is also making their own nuclear reactors because they have a lot more
thorium than uranium, and in order to use it, they need reactors which support
thorium fuel. </nitpick>

~~~
strebler
I wouldn't say so much "making their own" as they are cloning & tweaking the 2
CANDUs we sold 'em a few decades ago.

And yes, CANDU reactors can operate on thorium fuel cycles (lucky for them).

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zefhous
"...indisputably superior to H.264"

Is that really the case? Indisputably? I'd like to learn more about that.

Also, even if VP8 takes over Ogg Theora's position as a competitor to H.264 as
a web standard, it will still face some problems.

One is that in moving to HTML5, many videos being served through flash are
already encoded as H.264 and could be served through HTML5 without re-
encoding. VP8 would still require conversion for a full transition away from
flash to be made.

Another problem is IE support for VP8... hopefully they'll be willing to
support it in a timely manner.

~~~
cracki
you fail to realize that windows has codec management built into the system.

a browser should never concern itself with codecs. that's what system APIs are
for.

you can teach IE6 about VP8 by just installing a codec into the system. if
that's not done by the IT dept. or your neighbor's kid, you either don't have
the need to play back VP8 or whoever gives you VP8 content also tells you how
to install a codec.

~~~
zefhous
My point with IE is that a lot of content providers don't want to use
something that everyone doesn't have access to out of the box. Yes, people can
install the codec, but for websites to start using it in a widespread manner
it would help for all the major browsers to package it.

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Torn
Didn't Google just commit to funding Ogg Theora on ARM devices, not two days
ago?

[http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/Google-funds-
OGG-T...](http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/Google-funds-OGG-Theora)

Not sure how that would qualify as 'killing' it..

------
matrix
I've always felt that a factor holding back more widespread adoption of Ogg
Theora (or Vorbis for that matter) were the product names. I'm very glad that
someone out there was providing a royalty-free codec, but it's frustrating to
see them get held back by a decision that made their battle harder than it
needed to be.

To some extent - especially in the last decade - a codec is/was a consumer-
facing technology, and I feel short, simple names like "FLAC", "MPEG", "VP8",
etc make it easier to brand things than a long foreign names that leave most
users puzzled.

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mansr
1\. This is nothing but a rumour, this instance seemingly made up out of thin
air by that website.

2\. There is no evidence whatsoever that VP8 even exists, let alone performs
anywhere close to H.264.

3\. Even if it does exist, and even if it is opened, there is no reason to
believe the usual suspects do not hold patents covering at least parts of it.

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scythe
I'll still view it as a rumor until Google confirms, personally.

~~~
ZeroGravitas
Google _started_ the rumor, in their PR when they bought On2 last year:

 _“Today video is an essential part of the web experience, and we believe
high-quality video compression technology should be a part of the web
platform,” said Sundar Pichai, vice president, Product Management, Google. “We
are committed to innovation in video quality on the web, and we believe that
On2’s team and technology will help us further that goal.”_

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hackermom
"indisputably superior to H.264"

Whoo, whoo there, Ben Moskowitz, jump off your stampeding horse. Stop counting
beans and pennies and go get some "hands-on" with these things before you
talk.

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hackermom
Let's hope.

