

Stop Calling Yourself a Rockstar and a Ninja - TristanKromer
http://blog.startupsquare.com/entrepreneurship/stop-calling-yourself-a-rockstar-and-a-ninja/

======
ZachPruckowski
I sneak into concerts dressed in all black, incapacitate the drummer with the
hilt of my katana, and fill in during the solos using my nunchucks as
drumsticks without anyone noticing the difference (except for the occasional
"man, the drummer's more awesome than usual tonight" comment). May I still
call myself a Ninja Rockstar?

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SandB0x
I just searched Monster.co.uk for "ninja". Two out of the three jobs returned
were for marketing/finance jobs at Google, and in both the matching sentence
was:

"You must be a spreadsheet ninja to apply."

~~~
mortenjorck
Spreadsheet.

Ninja.

I'm having trouble thinking of two more depressingly diametrically opposed
words.

~~~
po
I've met spreadsheet ninjas before. I only just barely escaped that meeting.

~~~
mortenjorck
I have actually seen some rather amazing spreadsheets before, but I think of
their creators less as _ninjas_ and more as... perhaps mad scientists?

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Scriptor
The only times I've seen "rockstar" or "ninja" used to describe programmers is
in job descriptions. People try to make an otherwise run-of-the-mill web dev
job sound interesting by making it sound casual and fun.

~~~
byoung2
_People try to make an otherwise run-of-the-mill web dev job sound interesting
by making it sound casual and fun_

Just like this: <http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/web/1852182884.html>

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cjeane
Stop Calling Yourself a Rockstar, let us do it for you.
<http://www.startupsquare.com/index.php?id=people>

~~~
jrockway
Hilarious. Much easier to blog something than to change something.

~~~
TristanKromer
Totally correct! Had been meaning to change it, then crashed out. Woke up to
shock that someone reads my blog. Then changed it. By the way...now accepting
applications for a copywriter. I am very very bad at headlines. :(

------
dpcan
Does this guy believe that when coders call themselves rockstars and ninjas
they ACTUALLY mean rockstars and ninjas?

I'm confused by the article. The humor is dry and I honestly can't tell if he
really thinks we are serious about the terms. He couldn't actually think so...
right?

Nobody tell this guy he has "killer shoes" because he may start to think his
feet are out to get him.

~~~
tome
No, he's saying the analogies are far short of appropriate:

 _Seriously guys…I’m sure we can think of some ego flattering terms for a good
programmer that don’t immediately imply that hiring them would be an act of
blatant stupidity. I’m open to suggestions._

~~~
TristanKromer
Thanks for the clarification. Also I just thought it was funny. And yes...my
humor is dry. It's my English half.

~~~
dpcan
Ah ha, so is English not your first language? If so, that may be part of why
this didn't work for me.

I don't think that when we say "Ninja" or "Rockstar" we are even remotely
referring to their actual definitions or what they really are in the real
world.

A "Ninja", where I'm from, is considered swift, quiet, stealth, accurate and
focused.

A "Rockstar" is just bigger than life, someone others can only aspire to be
but few will ever be.

~~~
TristanKromer
English is my first language. American, not as much..and SV slang most
definitely not. I actually like the term ninja when applied to IT depts
because I actually do want my router installed without having to hear Samurai
war cries. But coding? I admittedly don't get it. There is way too much
baggage in those terms. Perhaps from being in the music industry for too many
years.

All in all, I just think the ninja / rockstar meme jumped the shark long ago
(how's that for slang?) to the point that I actually irritated myself while
writing web site copy using those very words. Anyway, no offense intended.

------
cheald
I rather like the terms "rockstar" and "ninja". When people use them in their
blog bios, it's _generally_ a pretty good sign that they're _not_ an expert at
their tradecraft. When you need to co-opt trendy terms to sell yourself rather
than letting your work stand on its own, there's a problem. If there's
something I've learned about programmers, it's that the best ones know how
much they _don't_ know and generally tend to have some measure of humility
about that; it's usually the newbies that feel the need to fluff themselves up
with "code ninja" and "VB rockstar".

Job descriptions get a pass, since their job is to stand out.

------
tomh-
I've actually never seen anyone on the internet calling themselves a
'rockstar' or 'ninja' in a software related context. They always call others
'rockstars' or 'ninja's'

~~~
fun2have
Bob Geldof? Boomtown Rats to Deckchair.com In the late 90s, when Bob
encountered problems booking a family holiday over the Internet for his
children and his French actress girlfriend Jeanne Marine, Geldof founded
online travel agent Deckchair.com. See:
<http://www.personallyspeaking.co.uk/sir_bob_geldof__147.html>

John Perry Barlow: Grateful Dead to EFF. See:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Perry_Barlow>

------
voidpointer
I find it quite practical that a certain type of people started to attach
these rockstar/ninja labels to themselves. This way it becomes very easy to
spot the douchebags.

The same goes for job listings that state these terms. Why would a smart
person care to work for a company that actively seeks to hire douchebags?

------
yanowitz
A new trend -- the anti rock-star/ninja listing. This one caught my eye:
[http://jobs.github.com/positions/4463ed90-a175-11df-9567-22d...](http://jobs.github.com/positions/4463ed90-a175-11df-9567-22d639a766d0)

------
patio11
I used "rockstar" to fairly decent effect in one job solicitation. It worked
in context:

[http://davidcrow.ca/jobs/1888/bandzoogle-rockstar-web-
design...](http://davidcrow.ca/jobs/1888/bandzoogle-rockstar-web-designer-
telecommute)

I am told the company was quite happy with the solicitation and it apparently
got them the kind of applicants they wanted, so win win.

------
WillyF
Call yourself whatever you want. Just back it up.

------
aplusbi
Unless of course, you actually are a rockstar.

~~~
eof
a real ninja would never tell you he was a ninja.. so you're right, only if
you actually are a rockstar.

~~~
Jun8
That means, if I'm a ninja I should tell you that I am, because, by the above
rule, you'll now be 100% certain that I'm not.

~~~
eof
I think you've found a strange loop.

------
Jun8
Which brings to mind the question: How many rock stars are programmers? There
are quite a few coder-artist types, thanks mainly to Processing, but I've yet
to hear about a coder rock star (let alone, of course, a coder ninja, but
those are, you know, reclusive by nature).

~~~
joezydeco
Todd Rundgren writes a lot of his own stuff. He's been coding since the Apple
][ days and even sold a graphics package for the early drawing tablets:

<http://www.edibleapple.com/the-first-apple-tablet-from-1979/>

~~~
Jun8
I just checked this guy from your link and WOW! I didn't know such people
existed. Will listen to his music tonight. Thanks!

~~~
joezydeco
Personally I think Rundgren is an acquired taste, like Zappa. But give it a
shot. He's also produced some amazing albums for other groups (XTC's
_Skylarking_ being my favorite).

------
psawaya
The biggest takeaway I got from this article is that I should start calling
myself a code samurai.

~~~
TristanKromer
Try Kensai.

------
afshin
I think the problem is on the demand side: its employers posting jobs with
ridiculous titles. I don't think applicants are walking around calling
themselves ninjas or pirates or rockstars.

------
imns
It's funny now these trends work. I remember the first time I heard a someone
refer to themselves as a ninja and I thought it was so cool. It was this guy
that had an ad on CSS Mania, if that tells you how long ago it was.

About 3-4 months ago I was sitting in class and heard my teacher talking about
how all the kids want to be called rockstars and ninjas and I knew the trend
was dead.

------
malbiniak
Oh Twitter and your timely relevance.

"Super America seeking 'Customer Service Superstars' — Factor that in next
time your agency posts an opening for a 'Project Manager Rockstar'"

<http://twitter.com/threevolts/status/20800932029>

------
Qz
The article links to this article (via the ninja picture):

[http://mettadore.com/ruby/so-you-want-to-hire-a-ninja-do-
you...](http://mettadore.com/ruby/so-you-want-to-hire-a-ninja-do-you/)

Which seems to do a much better job of addressing the point.

------
eof
I am confused by the immediateness of this going to the top of HN, it seems to
lack any real substance.

As others have said, people don't call themselves 'rock stars' and 'ninjas',
people look for them. Beyond that, using the definition that refers to the
traditional use of the words rather than the idiosyncratic ones to show you
don't want a 'ninja' or 'rockstar' is so fucking cheap it hurts.

~~~
jlujan
I think the expediency by which it arrived at the top might possibly be
indicative of how many people have exactly the same sentiment. Possibly we
were all just waiting for some one to say it first. Put our disdain for the
phrase in text.

~~~
scott_s
Except I've heard the sentiment expressed on HN for years.

~~~
TristanKromer
I agree on the no substance part....and I wrote it. Was very shocked that this
post got any traction and now I'm curious about it from a sociology /
marketing point of view.

------
stralep
I would say that this picture is appropriate :)

[http://johnstamosfever.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/ninjas-
an...](http://johnstamosfever.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/ninjas-and-
guitars.jpg)

------
TristanKromer
I've just been heavily criticized for not knowing that ninja is not a class in
WoW. Should I feel chastised for being ignorant? Or blessed that I don't spend
that much time playing video games?

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teye
Stop writing posts warning against use of these terms. You're too late. The
tide turned long ago, and the ones who were there already made the
announcement.

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pxlpshr
There's something to be said for misplaced egos, but spending half a breath
indirectly reaffirming that titles are pointless in startups... is pointless.

------
maukdaddy
Am I the only one who actually does not apply to job descriptions asking for a
rockstar/ninja?

~~~
TristanKromer
I actually applied for one job labelled "product manager rockstar" when I
first saw the term. But that was mostly because I had been playing music
onstage for ten years and I thought it would be funny to put that in my resume
and send it in.

------
acangiano
Maestro is my favorite term for someone who is truly a master of this craft.

------
Tichy
I've never heard a developer call himself rockstar or ninja.

~~~
cheald
Google is quite enlightening.

<http://www.google.com/search?q=I+am+a+css+ninja>

------
api
... and a "thought leader." [vomit]

------
Ardit20
Stop telling me what to do!

