

I don't want to "hack" the Y combinator application. - littlegiantcap
http://blog.seedlauncher.com/2012/10/30/i-dont-want-to-hack-the-y-combinator-application/

======
lathamcity
I think there's a disturbing trend in our society towards trying to get
something that's competitive by "hacking" it or cheating on it somehow. Either
that or working insanely hard at the expense of your personal life and
personal health. It ultimately leads to a raising of the standard so that only
those people can really get what they want. "Hacking" the Y-Combinator
application is an example of that. Suppose some people figure out how to hack
it so that they can give the reviewers exactly what they want. Well, then the
other people who aren't hacking it in that way are at a disadvantage. Then
they have to hack too or be left in the dust. And it becomes this sort of arms
race where the original point gets left in the dust.

The same example is true of taking adderall to study for tests. In high
school, I didn't take adderall, but I know a lot of kids who did and they
would remember information a lot better and score above what they should have
been. So if there was some kid who was objectively a worse student than me and
he was getting the same grades as me, we both look the same. If everybody
started doing it, I'd be left behind or pushed into a lower bracket by virtue
of being the only person who _didn't_ do it - who wasn't willing to risk my
health (I think, don't know too much about it) for a higher grade. I don't
think this will happen, but there are a lot of other examples:

-Doping in bicycling

-Working an insane amount of hours on your startup/job

-Spending months/years studying for the GMAT to get into business school

-Corruption or lying in politics

-Autotuning in the music industry

-High school kids taking all these leadership roles and such things that they don't really care about to try to show passion and get into Harvard. Same for grad school applications.

etc. etc.

~~~
skrebbel
Are you sure this is a trend? Was it different some decades ago?

Also,

> _-Autotuning in the music industry_

Oh, come on. That's like not giving Tron an Oscar because they cheated their
special effects scenes by using _computers_.

~~~
Qworg
That's different - special effects in movies make the impossible possible. A
better actor couldn't conjure up the Grid.

A better musician COULD sing on tune. It is well within human capability.
Autotuning is a quick hack to make up for not being able to sing.

------
birken
Preface: I have no personal experience with Y combinator. I've never applied,
I've never interviewed, I don't know anything about it, etc.

However, I'm guessing that this discussion and this article in general are
giving way too little credit to the interviewers at Y combinator. I think this
is a classic survivorship bias here, where the people who "hack" the
application and get in are probably the loudest people proclaiming what they
did, so people assume that their "hacking" of the application is what got them
in. I suspect however, that their "hacking" was a useful data point, but it
was just part of the whole picture that resulted in the decision made by the
people at Y combinator. The partners at Y combinator weren't born yesterday
and I have no doubt see right through any transparent attempts to curry their
favor.

However, I agree with the conclusion of the article. You don't need to be in Y
combinator to have a successful business. Just focus on doing what you do and
don't worry about other people.

~~~
littlegiantcap
I didn't at all mean to say the interviewers aren't able to see through it.
They're all incredibly smart people, and after reading 1000's of applications
I'm sure they can tell who is trying to game it and who isn't. As for the rest
of the post I agree with what you're saying.

~~~
lostlogin
Doing some kind of tedious thing that you don't want to do in order to get an
advantage in the future is kind of a good attribute isn't it? That's a fair
summary of some of the papers I took as an undergrad anyway. The whole fake
leadership thing that goes on in high school is pretty weak seeming other than
this aspect in my opinion otherwise.

------
arasmussen
I love the point that you don't _need_ an incubator to start a company. I see
many people who are only interested in starting a company if they get funded
by YC.

I think it's a bit harder to tell people you're working on your own company
full-time if you aren't funded and you aren't in an incubator program. The
incubator program lets other people know that investors believe in your idea,
so you'll be more confident in telling people about it.

But really, if you want to start a company, you shouldn't need the investor to
have your back. You should be able to believe in yourself and your idea no
matter what people think otherwise you'll never succeed.

~~~
rohanpai
Not everyone tries to get funded by Y-Combinator for the ~$18,000. A lot more
is offered; network, talent, investors etc..

~~~
arasmussen
I am in no way saying that's all you get from YC. I'm just saying that I
disagree with a pretty common opinion that you starting a company without
being funded by YC (or etc.) is ridiculous.

------
biscarch
It seems that most comments here (and the post itself) are conflating
"Hacking" with "Cheating".

Cheating would be something similar to placing your name on the interview
list, bypassing the need for an application.

Hacking is figuring out the rules to the system and using them to your
advantage.

Examples from other posts:

"Taking Adderall"

Taking Adderall is hacking your biochemistry. Taking it to misrepresent your
abilities to potential employers is cheating.*

*unless there are proven long term benefits to Adderall?

"Doping"

Doping is hacking your biochemistry. Using it to win a biking race is cheating
if the rules prohibit it.

"Spending years studying for the GMAT"

That's just studying. There is no hacking, and no cheating going on here.
Hacking would be finding a way to remember more about the GMAT in less time.
Cheating would be using a cheat sheet.

"Autotuning"

Autotuning is a vocal effect. It also degrades the quality of your voice.
Comparing a trained vocalist with someone using auto-tune is no contest, the
trained vocalist will always perform better.

"Creating higher visibility by posting on HN"

This is hacking. The rules of News.YC have been used to garner greater
mindshare with the partners that review applications. This is using one
process to have an effect on a different process.

In conclusion Hacking is a mentality, Hacking != Cheating even though
sometimes one may be an integral part to the other.

------
Magenta
There are a lot of people who say 'hacked' in lieu of normal words for normal
day-to-day tasks like 'did,' 'accomplished,' 'wrote a blog post,' 'watched,'
'logged in,' etc. We're apparently a long way past the point where most
'hacks' are actually worth discussing.

"How I hacked airtime by logging on and talking to people"

"How I Hacked My Breakfasts by Switching From Muffins to Crumpets"

"Hacking your toilet routine by using three sheets of toilet paper per wipe!"

~~~
dsirijus
I use 4, then 3, then 2, then 1 up front. Even 10 in total. I'm a numerical
toilette paper hacker!

------
DHowett
I don't believe that showing the application reviewers what they you think
they want to see (where it does not line up with what you intend to do) is
"hacking";

It's _lying_.

------
btilly
Here is the message that I am getting from this.

They are applying. They don't think they will get in. They are setting up the
excuse in advance that they aren't willing to try to do anything that looks
like cheating to get in, with the subtext that _if they wanted to_ they could
do it. And then if they lose they will have planted doubt about the actual
qualifications of anyone who did get in. They didn't deserve it, they cheated.

Yeah, right. As has been noted, the interviewers are competent enough to catch
obvious BS. If "hacking" the application works, the #1 reason is because the
mentality required to attempt that is a positive characteristic in the minds
of the interviewers.

Doubt that? These are people who ask on the application, _Tell us about the
time you most successfully hacked some (non-computer) system to your
advantage?_ They WANT people who try to spot an angle and exploit it. That
kind of person tends to be more likely to succeed in a startup. Someone who
follows rules because they are there does not. If they notice you trying to
find an angle to manipulate them, and you're not obviously sucking while you
do it, do you think it goes down as a positive or a negative? Positive, right?

~~~
alanctgardner2
I think people in general focus too much on the superficial components of
their application. Pg has debunked many people's theories about what was
good/bad about their presentation. Ultimately, it seems like you can do
equally well with a conventional or hacker approach, provided you actually
have positive qualities they're looking for. Its all in the execution, not in
whether you think you're clever

------
brackin
I completely agree. You sometimes hear in interviews partners talking about
how some companies sometimes convince them of one thing but turn out to not be
able to execute on their plans. As in they sound really convincing but don't
really know what they're talking about. Of course, what is "hacking"? Most of
what founders do to get into YC isn't hacking the application. Writing a good
application and getting lots of feedback isn't hacking it.

Asking founders you don't know for recommendations could be but in a negative
way but a recommendation isn't easy to get as it's on their back.

If you lie about or fake parts of your application the partners will very
quickly pickup on this as they've seen thousands of teams and YC founders who
have applied themselves. By the way, this could be considered a trick/hack to
attempt to butter-up the reader and instill a level of confidence in the
authors credibility.

------
tjbiddle
A lot of the articles and blogs posts that I have read about "hacking" the YC
app aren't really hacks, and they shouldn't be - for the exact reason this
article brings out. You don't want to misrepresent yourself, but instead you
want to show your best side and what your capable of. If you did xyz to your
application to make it better, that's not a hack - That's showing your skill
and knowledge of yourself and your product, not to mention it proves that you
know how to get attention and make yourself memorable. I read a post earlier
about a funny video that was submitted, the one with the accents. That's not a
hack. That's explaining your product (And might I add in a damn easy to
understand way) and making sure that there's something that the viewer will
remember (Like I just remembered it now).

------
austenallred
The fact is most people never actually "hack" the interview, it's just a
buzzword people use to get their post boosted up higher. Most posts claiming
to have "hacked" the application in reality followed best practices and had a
compelling case. But admitting that doesn't get upvotes or pageviews.

------
SatvikBeri
Changing credit cards that frequently is bad for your credit, which often
costs you more in the long term (e.g. if you ever buy a house). So I'm not
sure that's the example you should give-it can come across as pretty short-
sighted.

~~~
littlegiantcap
I keep the credit cards open, I just don't use them and phase them out slowly
over time. I'm very diligent with it, and because I use them often and never
miss a payment my credit is quite good. Admittedly though this was simply the
first answer that came to mind.

~~~
SatvikBeri
Oh good, sounds like you know what you're doing! Hopefully you keep making
small payments, e.g. $5 monthly fees on each card. If you leave a card unused
for a long time that can lead to some nastiness and a sudden drop in your
credit score later. The reason is basically that accounts with much higher
credit lines than they actually use are high risk because they have a small
chance of a major default.

Source: I used to work in a credit cards division at a major bank.

~~~
bti
What do most banks consider "a long time" to be? I have a number of cards that
I rotate usage on. I may go as long as 3 months before charging something on
it.

~~~
bsims
Credit histories go as far back as 7 years, so in terms of 3 and 6 months, it
is a relatively short time. This is also why it is a challenge for many young
adults to receive fair credit scores.

Also, you should at least be charging one thing per credit card so they are
still remaining active.

As dumb as it may sound, it is actually better for your credit score if you
have around $5-$10 on your statement on any given month which achieves a
higher credit score vs. paying it off entirely. This is illogical because most
smart people just set it up for auto pay and pay it off entirely. Hope that
helps.

------
magsafe
How is writing this blog post and submitting it to Hacker News not hacking the
application process?

~~~
eggshells
Creating higher visibility doesn't quite seem like "hacking the application
process." Of course, it's a bit of a ploy, but no more so than any
advertisement has ever been.

------
skrebbel
I don't understand this blog post. It seems to imply that lying on an
application for a place like Y Combinator is commonplace, except that the
author won't do it, because it's _wrong_! Does his implication hold? Is it
really that bad?

In other news, I decided to not steal candy from little children!

------
eduardordm
In my application video I look like a crazy-eyed psychopath. I'm ugly as a
train crash. English is my 3rd language. My application form was written in 10
minutes and I didn't really review it. There is nothing interesting about me,
I'm just like the most. (except the crazy eyes, good lord do I look crazy)

But the product I'm building (IMO) is really cool and profitable.

That said, I think I have the same chances of being accepted than those
application form hackers.

------
dsirijus
Haha. First you have numerous "how I hacked YC application" submissions when
there wasn't absolutely any hacking going on there. And now you have responses
how you someone doesn't want to hack it.

There's no any kind of hacking going on there, people.

At least this one isn't a shameless plug.

------
mvkel
I think it's distressing to think any kind of success in the Y Combinator
application process is significant at all.

You're presumably trying to start a company. YC is step -1. Treat it as such.
It might be the catalyst for your success, or it may not.

------
moadeel
Honesty is the best hack. If it's coupled with a genuinely good way of solving
a big problem, then it's an even better hack. And if it's associated with a
team that has accomplished things in the past, viola!

------
moadeel
Annnnd this post is a hack :) If it gets more points and you get up in the
queue, then this would turn into a great hack indeed.

And by hack, I mean a smart way of getting noticed, not a deceiving hack.

------
neya
Well written article. I completely agree with the author.

------
hashpipe
Absolutely loved the title and the thoughts. Pleasant change from all the "How
we hacked into YC" posts flooding HN every now and then.

------
danilocampos
Successful business often requires the perception and exploitation of
loopholes – market inefficiencies, gaps in regulation, even misunderstood
consumer preferences. Coming out on top is aided by a willingness to explore
outside the parameters other people impose upon you, if only because it widens
the number of options available.

Were I investing, I would find a willingness to adhere to the rules, the
letter of the application instructions, or any other enthusiasm for the
taking-of-directions to, perhaps, be a negative signal.

