
BasicAttentionToken Roadmap 1.0 - guribe94
https://basicattentiontoken.org/bat-roadmap-1-0.html
======
jasonkostempski
Who would run a browser specifically designed to track and show ads? I can't
imagine it ever being enough to support the ecosystem.

Edit: And how is the locally gathered "attention" monitoring not exploitable
by the people who get paid for the attention? Running a bunch of VMs that "pay
attention" to the ad seems like a cheap thing to rig up.

~~~
Taek
I have been hoping for a long time that browsers could use cryptocurrency to
monetize publishers through methods other than advertising.

Was very glad to see Brave pairing a browser with cryptocurrency (though I
don't know how they will handle the scalability issues), and then very
disappointed to see that it's not actually replacing ads, but instead
encouraging users to watch them.

~~~
hudon
Why do you need a cryptocurrency to make the model work? If people wanted to
do this, couldn't Chrome build a "Google Token" that does the same thing?

~~~
Taek
Interoperability I think is the biggest hurdle. There's nothing particularly
special about blockchains here except that it's really easy to move between
currencies once you've got accounts on the right exchanges.

Without cryptocurrency, you'd need some way for a user to pay all websites
they visit. Ads can go on any browser and be served from any company. Ad
networks don't need to interoperate. But if a user is paying publishers, it's
a huge hurdle to have to pay a new publisher payment processor every time you
visit a new site. Sure, 70% might accept Google payments, but what about the
rest of them? And what about the users who are not on Google's payment
platform?

Not that cryptocurrency solves all these problems. It's still a hard thing to
do. But I think it at least lowers the barrier.

~~~
hudon
> it's really easy to move between currencies once you've got accounts on the
> right exchanges.

wait so the users are going to need more than one kind of token? And they're
going to need to open accounts on an exchange?

> Without cryptocurrency, you'd need some way for a user to pay all websites
> they visit. Ads can go on any browser and be served from any company. Ad
> networks don't need to interoperate. But if a user is paying publishers,
> it's a huge hurdle to have to pay a new publisher payment processor every
> time you visit a new site. Sure, 70% might accept Google payments, but what
> about the rest of them? And what about the users who are not on Google's
> payment platform?

Hold on, BAT is 1 kind of token. All the ad publishers need to integrate with
the BAT. How is this different than having all ad publishers integrating with
Google Token?

If there is a competing token, let's call it CAT, how is that different than
the AppleToken competing with the Google Token, from the user's perspective?

~~~
Jabanga
>How is this different than having all ad publishers integrating with Google
Token?

Presumably you wouldn't want to be locked into a proprietary platform that can
raise fees once it has an effective monopoly.

~~~
kolinko
@hudon - it's a blockchain protocol, so BAT will be bound by the rules of the
token as well. I.e. it won't be able to do any gatekeeping on who uses the
system and for what purpose, or do any other monopolistic practices.

~~~
hudon
> " it won't be able to do any gatekeeping on who uses the system and for what
> purpose"

Agreed. This is actually something the blockchain has that existing systems do
not: censorship resistance. The ability to participate and not be shut down,
fined, or jailed by the rule of law.

However, if you remove the need to be censorship resistant and assume that no
one will use the ad publishing system for illegal activity, I'd be really
curious to hear what you mean by "other monopolistic practices".

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al_chemist
> BAT Gemini (fall 2017/winter 2018) > KYC (humint + machine learning), rate,
> and flow control for anti-fraud

Brave - first browser that not only force you to pay for browsing Internet,
but also force you to do it with your identity proven. Privacy nightmare.

~~~
lukemulks
Brave is not forcing anyone to pay for anything (I work at Brave and on the
BAT project).

Brave is, and will be free to use.

BAT will be opt-in, and users will not be required to pay for anything.

Users that opt-in when BAT ads become integrated will be awarded BAT from the
user growth pool (user growth pool is 300m BATs).

Users that opt-in and wish to remain anonymous do not have to KYC.

Users that choose to exchange BATs for fiat or remove BAT from the system will
have to go through KYC if they setup a new wallet as a part of the opt-in.

Again, Brave is not forcing anyone to pay to browse. Brave will continue to
block ads and tracking by default, for free. BAT will be integrated and opt-
in.

BAT FAQ:
[https://basicattentiontoken.org/faq.html](https://basicattentiontoken.org/faq.html)

BAT blog: User adoption and extending the BAT Platform
[https://basicattentiontoken.org/driving-user-adoption-and-
ex...](https://basicattentiontoken.org/driving-user-adoption-and-extending-
the-bat-platform.html)

BAT white paper:
[https://basicattentiontoken.org/BasicAttentionTokenWhitePape...](https://basicattentiontoken.org/BasicAttentionTokenWhitePaper-4.pdf)

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Animats
The usual trouble with micropayments applies - all the interest is from people
who want to _collect_ micropayments, not those who want to _pay_ them.

~~~
Jabanga
Isn't the end-user the party collecting micropayments in this case?

~~~
lukemulks
There are a few pieces to this (I work at Brave and am on the BAT project).

The BAT project has set aside 300M BATs in the User Growth Pool, which will be
used to award users that opt-in to the BAT integration with BATs.

Amounts in the user growth pool, including the address, are listed in the BAT
FAQ:
[https://basicattentiontoken.org/faq.html](https://basicattentiontoken.org/faq.html)

We also released a post on the user growth pool and extending the BAT Platform
beyond the Brave browser, which is continued in the roadmap:
[https://basicattentiontoken.org/driving-user-adoption-and-
ex...](https://basicattentiontoken.org/driving-user-adoption-and-extending-
the-bat-platform.html)

The existing Brave Payments beta that uses bitcoin will be migrated to BAT as
the roadmap indicates ([https://basicattentiontoken.org/bat-
roadmap-1-0.html](https://basicattentiontoken.org/bat-roadmap-1-0.html)),
which will initiate flow for users that choose to opt-in and contribute to
verified publishers.

We've posted about this here: [https://basicattentiontoken.org/bat-a-natural-
way-to-contrib...](https://basicattentiontoken.org/bat-a-natural-way-to-
contribute-to-publishers.html)

The post above also contains a review of the Google Contributor reboot, which
filters ads in exchange for micropayments for participating publishers.

As communicated in the roadmap, trials will initially be with ads in private
user channels (separate from the current blanner blindness problems that exist
- I worked in ad ops and product integration for 5 years prior to joining
Brave last Dec - blanner blindness is a problem). Examples: rich push
notifications, private tabs, new tab page.

In later phases, verified publishers will be included in the rev share, with
additional options for premium content and ala carte content available for BAT
for publishers interested in the utility.

That said, verified publishers will be included earlier in the process through
the microdonation/patreon option mentioned above.

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hudon
The use of a blockchain here is going to slow them down... The business model
is really interesting but if it ends up working, Google will see it, build a
Google Token that doesn't rely on the blockchain, undercut them severely on
costs and transfer times, and call it a day.

~~~
Taek
I don't see Google jumping into this market. Also, it's a lot easier to pay
someone in cryptocurrency than in Google token -cryptocurrency is accepted as
valid payment in a much more diverse set of places.

The blockchain doesn't need to slow them down if they scale correctly. You'd
do most of this stuff through payment channels or a lightning network. And,
the lightning network can be made to be cross-chain. You wouldn't even need to
pay everyone in bitcoin or ethereum, you could pay them in whatever currency
they prefer.

~~~
hudon
Google wouldn't even need to create a "token", just let you store USD in your
Google Wallet and let you cash it out when you want (venmo style). The user
already has a way to pay online: their credit card. So: no new merchant
integration to build, $0 fees, no security deposit (vs lightning network), no
verification documents to submit (crypto exchanges), no network backlog (due
to full blocks or ICOs happening).

It would just work.

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ProxCoques
Isn't the BAT/Brave concept a response to what is essentially the same problem
as email spam? That is, unwanted/irrelevant advertising at near-zero cost to
produce, and that increasingly relies on brute force to overcome
countermeasures?

If so, it might be worth evaluating it in terms of the myriads of email spam
solutions that have been proposed over the years. Specifically, those
solutions based on users adopting different client/server platforms and
digital money. Both of which have been shown to be next to impossible to get
ordinary people to do as part of their already-established use of the
Internet. The general public barely knows what a browser is, much less the
concepts involved in a weird new payment system.

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isubkhankulov
its so refreshing to actually see roadmaps after token launches.

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spamlord
BasicPonziToken - The lifeblood of Ethereum

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currywurst
Is it too late to change the name? Something like "Basic Interest Token" (BIT)
sounds less Orwellian

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randomname2
Is BAT traded anywhere other than Bittrex and liqui.io yet?

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nextstep
Converting from Bitcoin to an ERC20 token. Bitcoin is going to die; Ethereum
is the future.

~~~
DigitalDoubloon
How does it help Ethereum users to have a different currency, BAT tokens,
bloating up Ethereum's blockchain?

~~~
Jabanga
Ethereum is a platform. The more assets use it, the more they can
interoperate, and thus the more useful and valuable the platform becomes.

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teddyh
“ _from the co-founder of Mozilla_ ”? <checks article> Yep, it’s Brendan Eich.

