
FIND3: High-precision indoor positioning framework - tlrobinson
https://github.com/schollz/find3
======
Zuph
If you go to their cloud service page
([https://cloud.internalpositioning.com/](https://cloud.internalpositioning.com/)),
it's trivially easy to get live location data for strangers by guessing names.

~~~
dswalter
Yeah, that's scary. The maps integration makes that insanely informative.

------
ramzyo
Interesting project and seems they've put a lot of work into it. I wish,
however, that projects like this wouldn't use words to describe their
performance ("High-precision") that are only meaningful given a user's
intended application(s). For example, whether using a bluetooth RSSI technique
for localization is considered "high-precision" depends completely on the
user's intended application and the other components present within the
system, including hardware and the environment (both of which could be
uncontrollable).

Incidentally, the name of the project does a good job at capturing exactly
what it is, "Framework for Internal Navigation and Discovery".

~~~
rjvs
Indeed; since we are working in VR, high-precision indoor positioning for us
is sub-mm, which is very different to a navigation use-case.

------
3fe9a03ccd14ca5
I think we’re going to see a lot more innovation in indoor “gps” when we get
access to apples U1 chip, which uses ultra wide bands to get positioning down
to 10cm.

[https://9to5mac.com/2019/10/11/u1-chip/](https://9to5mac.com/2019/10/11/u1-chip/)

~~~
bigiain
Estimote have an indoor location SDK that uses bluetooth beacons which is
remarkably accurate (like ~15-20cm position accuracy in some of our testing).

[https://developer.estimote.com/indoor/map-your-
location/](https://developer.estimote.com/indoor/map-your-location/)

Interestingly, it's room mapping tool is iOS only. Which seems odd given the
FIND approach of being Android-only because of OS restrictions on 802* access?

~~~
ramzyo
Estimote is likely a part of Apple's iBeacon program and has a license to
build the technology into their beacons. FIND likely isn't a part of this
program, and therefore can't support it. If Estimote is a part of Apple's
iBeacon program, they may be legally unable to implement an Android solution
for room mapping functionality, lest they remove themselves from the iBeacon
program.

[https://developer.apple.com/ibeacon/Getting-Started-with-
iBe...](https://developer.apple.com/ibeacon/Getting-Started-with-iBeacon.pdf)

------
mrguyorama
Damn, I was really hoping this was a turnkey solution for SLAM (Simultaneous
location and mapping) as I really want to make a silly little rover that knows
it's location and can drive around my apartment.

Anyone know anything like that?

~~~
chapplap
For a true turn-key solution you probably need the entire stack from sensors
up to software. Intel's RealSense cameras (the T265 specifically) is probably
the most reasonably priced option for a hobbyist with reasonable APIs. Visual
and visual-inertial SLAM are not at a point where open-source packages are
robust and easy to use with an arbitrary sensor stack and environment.

If you only have 2D motion and can spend more money or mess around with
unsupported hardware (salvaged Neato vacuum) a laser rangefinder is also a
decent option.

~~~
__m
Do you know how Real sense compares to the Kinect 3(aka4)?

------
qrv3w
Hi, author here. Happy to answer questions :)

~~~
rapjr9
Can you describe what kinds of accuracy are possible in various situations?
What data sources are currently supported other than WiFi and Bluetooth
(magnetic fields are mentioned)? Is mapping of the WiFi/BT/Magnetic field
required? (And how often is remapping typically required? If I move my WiFi
emitting laptop to a new location does that require remapping the entire WiFi
space?)

~~~
qrv3w
> Can you describe what kinds of accuracy are possible in various situations?

Accuracy depends highly on the environment. If you're talking about
houses/apartments its generally room level or subroom level (~10 sq ft). It
depends on the number of WiFi routers in the vicinity, but this number if
always growing so accuracy can get pretty good in some areas. Of course it's
accuracy goes way down if you are in a remote area with no bluetooth or wifi
points in the vicinity.

> What data sources are currently supported other than WiFi and Bluetooth
> (magnetic fields are mentioned)?

The FIND system accepts any data source that can be quantified. In the API you
just label your data and the system will try classifying with it. For my
purposes I developed an app and a CLI tool that can geolocate phones/computers
and these use bluetooth and wifi.

> Is mapping of the WiFi/BT/Magnetic field required?

You don't need to map the fields, but you do need to go through a learning
phase to help the system learn what kind of fingerprint each area has.

> And how often is remapping typically required?

It depends on your location. If you are in a rural area with only one WiFi
router and it gets moved, then you need to remap. Surprisingly I've used this
in airports (which have tons of ad-hoc wifi networks) and the accuracy stays
resilient to the adhoc networks coming and going.

> If I move my WiFi emitting laptop to a new location does that require
> remapping the entire WiFi space?

It depends again, if your laptop is the only source of WiFi then yes you will
need to remap. However, if your laptop is one of 10 or 20 sources, then it
probably won't matter for the accuracy. In the system there are controls for
this (visualization of patterns, test validations, etc.) so that you can
monitor how this affects your system.

------
goda90
It'd be nice if this had iOS support. My mother lacks directional hearing, and
always struggles to find her iPhone despite the ability to make it ping with
her Apple watch. An app that just says what area of the house it is in would
help a ton.

~~~
davidmurdoch
If her spatial hearing isn't completely lost changing the ringtone to pulsing
white noise (one second on, one second off) may help, as it's generally harder
to locate higher pitch tones (like most ringtones).

------
robbiep
I’m confused about the iOS restriction, there are a number of
libraries/packages (all commercial, except for google maps) that work on iOS
for internal gps - is there maybe a different approach that the other
platforms are using?

~~~
londons_explore
On Android you can get near raw GPS data (phase of signals, Doppler shift,
pseudoranges, etc.)

That can give a lot of extra information - for example, standing one side of a
room might mean a metal beam is reflecting signals from one GPS satellite
giving a longer apparent pseudorange. That info can be used to identify that
you must be in that location.

I don't believe that's possible on iOS.

~~~
nurettin
find3 uses nothing of the sort.

