
OXO, Crooks and Robbers? - mikeleeorg
http://www.oxo.com/quirkyresponse.aspx
======
danielamitay
Aside from the "Some important lessons" section (which seemed very
patronizing, although OXO seems to be in the right here considering the
expired patent aspect), it seems that OXO handled themselves pretty well. It
pointed out Quirky's side of things, and then presented their own side. With
quite a bit of citation where appropriate.

Quirky[1] went straight for the "justice" aspect in their post without
presenting much info or even a cursory discussion of related patents.

[1] [http://www.quirky.com/blog/post/2013/01/rise-up-quirky-
seeks...](http://www.quirky.com/blog/post/2013/01/rise-up-quirky-seeks-
justice-for-bill-ward/)

~~~
mosselman
I actually loved that part. Even better was showing the many obvious quirky
rip-offs from OXO products.

Very gentleman like response and correction, well done OXO.

~~~
wangarific
Both companies end up winning here, for different reasons. OXO is the voice of
reason that calmly explains what's what while Quirky looks like the protector
who goes to bat for their inventors and community.

~~~
michaelhoffman
To me, Quirky looks like the crazy person who escalates in a big way without
even bothering to talk to the supposed wrongdoers. Not someone I want to do
business with.

~~~
mistermann
My thoughts exactly. They also look like hypocrites and thieves. They should
be ashamed of themselves.

------
MartinCron
Digging deeper into the "protest" linked from the OXO site:
[http://www.quirky.com/blog/post/2013/01/rise-up-quirky-
seeks...](http://www.quirky.com/blog/post/2013/01/rise-up-quirky-seeks-
justice-for-bill-ward/)

And the whole thing feels cheap and desperate. I like the idea of being
scrappy and unorthodox, but one corporate entity protesting another? It just
smells terrible.

~~~
dasil003
What feels even cheaper are the public protesters (assuming they are in fact
real unpaid people). It's bad enough when people go all frothy over iOS vs
Android, but over household product brands? I mean time to re-evaluate your
priorities people.

~~~
philwelch
I think the protestors were just the company staff, who took the day off to
participate in a publicity stunt.

~~~
dwiel
"That’s exactly what happened ... Quirky staffers took to the streets to
protest ..."

------
mikegirouard
I don't care about the rivalry between two companies producing similar
products... but this line really hit me hard:

> Ideas are limitless and patents expire for a reason: to encourage
> competition, innovation, and the evolution of new ideas that ultimately
> benefit the end user. If patents never expired, we would have only one car
> company, and the cars they develop would likely not be readily available and
> affordable to so many people all over the world. Imagine that.

Good show.

------
krschultz
OXO has ~100 people. The parent company has a market cap of 1.6B (including
Pur water filters and a few other brands). Quirky has ~80 people and $91
million in VC funding. Assuming Quirky is operating under the normal VC rules,
they want to soon be a billion dollar company - larger than OXO.

I find it strange that Quirky is playing up the "david vs goliath" angle. If
you've been in both of their offices, Quirky actually feels like they have
more money.

More importantly, if Quirky wants to be a billion dollar company, they are
going to have to do something a whole lot more innovative than a better dust
pan.

~~~
mason55
_> OXO has ~100 people_

The crazy thing is that they make eight and a half different products per
employee. When you think about the fact that you're talking about physical
products, that's crazy.

~~~
drharris
Indeed, and decent products at that. I've enjoyed all but a few of the OXO
products I've bought, which is more than I can say for a few of the Quirky
products I've bought (pivot power for one).

------
philwelch
OXO is one of my favorite companies. They seem to have the same quirky
creative culture as much of the tech industry, except maybe even friendlier,
plus a great design philosophy.

<http://www.oxo.com/AboutOXO.aspx>

<http://www.oxo.com/UniversalDesign.aspx>

~~~
rm445
I was just really confused. Is it or isn't it the same OXO who have been
producing stock cubes since the 19th century (and built the highly-visible OXO
tower in London)?

On searching, it appears not to be, and the US OXO brand was 'invented' in
1990.

~~~
philwelch
Hah, yeah, no relation to the famous OXO cubes.

------
fruchtose
I found the Broom Groomer on Quirky's site [1], and what do you know?--the
product description says, _Patent pending_. Well, that must mean there's a
patent application in the USPTO system! Sure enough, Quirky's patent
application, dated September 7, 2011 (provisionally filed April 18), titled
_Waste receptacle_ [2]. Bill Ward is one of the inventors. I am not qualified
to judge this patent against the one mentioned by OXO, so I invite others to
compare the two.

[1] [http://www.quirky.com/products/36-Broom-Groomer-Broom-
Cleani...](http://www.quirky.com/products/36-Broom-Groomer-Broom-Cleaning-
Dustpan)

[2] <http://www.google.com/patents/US20120260453>

~~~
benzofuran
Patent pending or not, there's clear evidence of prior art, and the patent
will most likely be rejected. I can file a patent on about anything from the
wheel on up, and for the period between filing and rejection, I can claim that
the wheel is patent pending - it still doesn't give me much further
protection.

~~~
Gigablah
Apparently, Bill Ward earned $15k for re-appropriating a design from 1919.

[http://www.quirky.com/products/36-Broom-Groomer-Broom-
Cleani...](http://www.quirky.com/products/36-Broom-Groomer-Broom-Cleaning-
Dustpan/timeline)

<http://www.google.com/patents/US1315310>

~~~
DanBC
Did he put silicone prongs on it?

That seems like a really bad idea. Silicone rubber is high friction - it's
going to make cleaning the bristles hard work. And cleaning the prongs is
going to be hard.

------
jrockway
I've been in the tech industry for too long. The first few times, I read
"Quirky" as "Quirk.ly".

That said, this sounds insane to me. Why would you spend money going to war
with a competitor over such a trivial matter? ("OXO copied a patent that we
also copied. Help, help, I'm being repressed.") Only to lose in the end? I
don't get it.

One other observation: excellent application of Betteridge's Law of Headlines.

~~~
jcampbell1
> Why would you spend money going to war with a competitor over such a trivial
> matter?

I think the Quirky people genuinely thought they were ripped off. They wanted
to be seen as the small company of inventors being ripped of by a much larger
company. Unfortunately, they lacked enough introspection to realize they have
done worse, and now they look like hypocrites.

~~~
jrockway
Do attack ads ever work, even if the facts are accurate?

(All I can think of are Microsoft's attack ads against Google, or Apple's
"Redmond, Start your Photocopiers" ad. Wouldn't that money be better-invested
in improving the product?)

~~~
fennecfoxen
Were you paying attention during the 2012 US Presidential elections? Do those
count?

~~~
jcampbell1
In politics, attack ads work well because if it causes someone to stay home it
is a win. In business, negativity can damage the entire segment enough that
both sides lose. Imagine if Coke and Pepsi accuse each other of selling
"poison for idiots", then people will quit drinking soda altogether.
Politicians don't have to consider this dilemma.

~~~
dragonwriter
This isn't so much "in politics" in general, as "in elections in systems which
have features which strongly reinforce duopoly"; in a duopoly, getting people
to stay home or to dislike the target slightly more than they dislike you for
the negative attack is a "win", but in systems where driving people away from
one target (whether they stay home or actively vote against) with negative ads
can fail to increase your share of the vote actually cast (because there are
more meaningful options than vote for target, vote for attacker, or stay
home), the incentives are different.

------
rickdale
I had the pleasure of meeting the father son team that started OXO a few years
back. Their story is very interesting, they started out redesigning the carrot
peeler, and look where they are today.

Side note: I ordered a bunch of stuff from quirky the first time I saw the
site and almost all the the stuff I got is really complete crap.

------
MartinCron
This makes me adore OXO even more than I did before. Very human response.

------
misleading_name
I love that fact that the other company was actually recycling an idea from
1919 and thinking they were onto something new.

------
onemorepassword
Seems to be the both OXO and Quirky are acting in good faith here, and Quirky
just went completely of the reservation instead of even considering they may
be wrong. I can understand how this could happen, for instance if OXO's
initially didn't take Quirky's case seriously enough to give it a decent
response like they're doing now.

The ball is in Quirky's court now. If they have any shred of decency they will
at the very least admit that they completely overreacted and that the case is
more complicated than they claimed.

I don't expect that though. There is something horribly "off" about the lame
way Quirky dressed up a PR stunt like genuine protest, the kind of people that
do that are not the kind that are likely to admit mistakes.

~~~
DanBC
They've riled up the Quirksters though - how do they back down and keep the
forums calm?

------
jtchang
I freaking love OXO products. Why? When you browse the kitchen utensil aisle
at target you have a choice:

Do you go for the cheap ass $1 dishbrush or do you splurge and get the awesome
OXO brush? Time and again I think OXO does a great job at delivering a quality
product that puts up to all the crappy abuse I dish out.

Most large corporations wouldn't even bother with an article like this. OXO is
simply trying to stay true to their roots. I respect that.

~~~
rogerbinns
> I freaking love OXO products.

As do I until I made the mistake of buying their kitchen timer which has one
redeeming feature (many hours of timing - most are limited to 90 minutes) and
sucks in every other way possible: buttons that don't work well, bizarre modes
(clock, timer, expired timer, repeat last time) and a hard to read display.

~~~
adamtj
It has a second redeeming feature: it has a numeric keypad for quickly
entering times. Most digital timers don't, which makes them harder to use than
mechanical ones that you twist. Most digital timers squander their potential,
but oxo gets that one right.

The modes make sense to me, so I see those as a plus. I agree with you though
about the hard to read display and the hard to press buttons.

~~~
pukka_my
Try the Pampered Chef timer - yes, it's a multi-level marketing company (aka
pyramid scheme), but they make some good basic tools. I have one that I've
been using on a weekly basis for 3+ years on the original battery, dropped
frequently and still works.

------
JohnBooty
Wow. A direct response with just the right amount of "snark" that's backed up
by generous citation.

It's slightly juvenile, but you know what? Quirky swung first; they don't get
to complain when somebody swings back.

Kudos to Oxo.

------
eagsalazar2
Quirky got served. Must be shameful to work there this morning.

------
cedricd
It's a shame that Quirky would take to the streets like that. It comes off as
childish and combative rather than as scrappy and willing to go to bat for
their inventors.

~~~
mistercow
It also comes off as a cheap publicity stunt (because that's what it is).

------
tomerv
It's impossible for us to know all the facts of this dispute, but from the
outside it looks like a childish move on Quirky's part, and a mature response
from OXO.

------
kemiller
This seems pretty obviously a calculated publicity stunt. And it worked. I'd
certainly never heard of Quirky before. Now I know not only who they are but
that they stake their brand on protecting small inventors. That message will
probably outlast any remembrance that they essentially smeared a beloved
company. From that point of view, I say congratulations.

But OXO handled it brilliantly and turned it into a PR coup of their own.

~~~
rrreese
I've heard of neither Quirky or OXO before reading this. Now I know that OXO
make cool designed products, while Quirky are the sort of company I would
rather not do business with.

------
jfarmer
Good marketing by everyone involved, honestly. Everyone wins!

------
nnnnni
The Quirky CEO was on Jay Leno's show last night. Interesting.

