
Teen prosecuted as adult for having naked images – of himself – on phone - planetjones
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/20/teen-prosecuted-naked-images-himself-phone-selfies
======
andybak
How does every single person involved in faciliating this case not wake up
every morning and think "My entire live is an absurd joke".

I've always been fascinated with the concept of institutional insanity - where
a group of people can behave rationally but the combined effect of their
behaviour is insane. It's possible there's some kind of 'gridlock' whereby
it's impossible (or even damaging) for any individual involved to try and
resist.

It's a milder form of the level of insanity you see within totalitarian
states. Reading this echos some of the bizarre logic I read coming from guards
at Cambodia's horrific S21. The penalty for resisting (or merely lack of
enthusiasm for enabling) was immediate and horrific and would have taken
superhuman courage. And it would have most likely made no difference.

In this case - the penalty for speaking out is probably nothing worse than
damage to one's career.

I'd love to know how many people involved in this at any level harbour doubts
without acting upon them.

I'd like to remind people that this is destroying the lives of two young
people. Maybe not beyond repair but possibly sending them on a different
course than before and probably not a better one.

~~~
Zigurd
Because we haven't actively made their life an absurd joke. While there is a
lot to be said against internet mobs, it's a pretty mild step to make sure
that the individuals involved in these travesties are identified, covered by
the press, and made immortal in the internet halls of shame.

They may say "we followed procedure" but it is on them to prove that
"procedure" admits no common sense, because, otherwise, it's a failure of
their sense and discretion.

------
GeorgeOrr
This sort of thing has to be remembered next time you hear that prosecutors
need broadly worded statutes to have the tools to go after the bad guys.

When people bring up criticisms of laws as over-broad, I often hear that
prosecutorial discretion will keep such abuses from happening. People who
suggest that the law as written will result in such injustice are often
ridiculed for imagining that any prosecutor would act that way, or any Judge
allow it.

Turns out, anyone suggesting that even the most absurd interpretations are not
possible are the ones who should be ridiculed.

Remember this the next time someone proposes a law, no matter how well
intentioned, and even if it happens to advance a cause you care about. The
abuses will happen, and how will you feel about that cost if you are the
subject of those abuses.

~~~
sarciszewski
> Turns out, anyone suggesting that even the most absurd interpretations are
> not possible are the ones who should be ridiculed.

Yep. See also: the CFAA.

------
sigma2015
What the article does not mention is that the guy and his gf are black ...

[[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3223533/North-
Caroli...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3223533/North-Carolina-hgh-
school-quarterback-girlfriend-charged-adults-exchanging-nude-photos.html)]

Now one might righfully argue that this case is not just ludicrous but also
racist.

~~~
sigma2015
why the downvote?

~~~
stared
I did't downvote, but I guess it's for implying (without any other data or
statistics) that if something bad happens to a member of a group X, then it is
an act of prejudice against this group.

------
chappi42
What I don't understand is, that the two young persons didn't choose to say:
f*uck you, stupid law, we won't strike a plea. You.are.nuts!

Is the pressure in the US that strong that a sane person 'just has to do
this'?

~~~
minimaxir
While the case may be incredibly weak, the defendant may still be unable to
fight it due to other factors (most notably cost and time), and therefore take
the plea instead. Lawyers are expensive everywhere.

Generally, refusing a plea deal for _ideological_ reasons is not a smart legal
strategy.

~~~
leaveyou
Why are lawyers expensive everywhere ? Demand and supply does not apply to
them ?

~~~
minimaxir
Less of a supply/demand microeconomic reason, more of a willingness-to-pay
rationale (i.e. if you are at risk of going to jail, you'll pay ANYTHING to
avoid it, and lawyers charge accordingly).

~~~
leaveyou
It's kind of paradoxical that people would rather accept unfavorable pleas
because they don't want to/can't pay anything.. and the lawyers are still
expensive..

------
paublyrne
You almost want to laugh. This sounds like a story out of the Onion.

Unfortunately it is not.

~~~
rsp1984
There's a word for that: "Kafkaesque". I rarely find it more appropriate.

------
gozo
Just having your phone searched and the police looking at pictures of you and
your girlfriend naked seems like enough of a violation in itself.

------
discardorama
Next up: teen accused of being a peeping tom for looking at himself in the
mirror after a shower.

------
jarfil
This is what I love about this case:

Let it be known that Brianna Denison, Fayetteville, North Carolina, by order
of the court won't have a cellphone with her to call for help if someone
abducts her and tries to rape her.

Very smart, yessir.

------
aresant
Story I expected based on headline and the outraged HN comments: "guy takes
nude selfies and is charged with crime."

Actual story "guy is charged with having nude images of underage girlfriend on
his phone, prosecutors inflate charges to force settlement by reaching to
include his own nude photos".

Still stupid. But way less black and white.

~~~
jarfil
The other part of the story is: "girlfriend also gets charged with having
selfies of herself"

They both got charged as adults for exploiting themselves as minors to share
the pics with each other.

------
weddpros
"Justice" is the only thing I'm scared of, because of the "".

Laws are made to protect children, and "Justice" abuse those laws against...
children.

"Justice" is just an administration today, devoid of logic and intelligence.

------
fingerprinter
Can a legal expert please explain to me how this can even happen? Shouldn't a
judge somewhere be able to take one look at this and realize the
ridiculousness of the whole thing and throw it out?

~~~
tsotha
Judges aren't supposed to pick and choose which laws get enforced - you can't
have a system where the legislature passes a law and rest of the government
says "Nah, we don't like that one."

What needs to happen is 1) the legislature needs to change the law to include
exceptions where appropriate and 2) the voters in that area need to take this
case into consideration when the prosecutor comes up for reelection.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Where to begin. Judges don't enforce laws. The legislature passing laws and
the _executive_ deciding which to enforce is part of the design of checks and
balances.

~~~
tsotha
I can only assume you skimmed my comment without actually reading it. As I
pointed out, judges should _not_ be determining which laws get enforced. In
North Carolina prosecutors are _elected_ , so there's no "the executive"
involved.

Furthermore, in the federal system the executive does not decide which laws to
enforce. That's a dereliction of duty - he's supposed to enforce them all. Not
doing your job is not part of "the design of checks and balances".

~~~
chrismcb
You are right judges shouldn't decide what gets enforced. But they do get to
decide if the law is a good one or bad one. They can overturn a law, so that
it will no longer be enforced

~~~
tsotha
Only if there's a constitutional basis for doing so. I'm no expert on North
Carolina law, but I'm going to go ahead and assume the state constitution is
silent on electronic pictures of naked people.

------
soneil
I've said this before elsewhere, but one concern with cases like this is that
it means sex offender registries are becoming more and more useless.

When people end up having to register because of 'stupid' crimes like this -
either they stand the chance of being persecuted as a sexual offender for the
rest of their lives. Or the registry itself becomes increasingly useless as we
start to assume people are there for peeing in the wrong place.

------
djent
So much for the right to face your accuser - was there a mirror in the
courtroom for him to look into?

~~~
minimaxir
From the linked article:

> _The Fayetteville, NC 17-year-old, Cormega Copening, faced five charges of
> sexual exploitation after police found the photos while searching his phone
> in an unrelated incident at his school last fall._

There is a third-party accuser.

~~~
djent
From the title:

> _Teen prosecuted as adult for having naked images – of himself_

The prosecutor is prosecuting on behalf of the very person who is also
supposedly the perpetrator. Do you seriously think our founding fathers
intended for _" The People" v. Copening_ to be a replacement for _Copening v.
Copening_?

------
informatimago
This is just the exact same thing as the Ahmed Mohamed clock.

Anybody who retain some sanity should leave the USA ASAP.

~~~
minimaxir
No?

That incident was caused by unfortunate racial stereotyping; this is caused by
a literal interpretation of the letter of the law that hasn't caught up with
the times.

~~~
jMyles
You are right; they are opposites in this way.

However, they share the thread of being implementations of unsustainable zero
tolerance.

~~~
weddpros
Nobody can imagine tolerance to bombing... but you can imagine tolerance to
sexting.

These cases are radically different. In the case of the clock, the "Justice"
was not involved, there was no accusation.

~~~
jMyles
I can certainly imagine tolerance to things that look like bombs or even that
simulate bombs in every meaningful way other than explosion.

"Zero tolerance" for bombs and weapons hasn't generally meant that bombs and
weapons are not tolerated - that was already the case. Instead, it has meant
that things that merely evoke the _image_ of a bomb or weapon are met with
intolerance.

For example, I imagine you came across this story:

[http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/08/28/school-
allegedly-...](http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/08/28/school-allegedly-
asks-deaf-preschooler-to-change-his-name-because-sign-language-version-
resembles-weapons/)

~~~
weddpros
"things that merely evoke the image of a bomb or weapon are met with
intolerance": I call it fear...

The deaf boy story is amazingly stupid too. It seems to me we've put to many
people in a position to restrict others liberties/rights, and now we pay the
price of stupid "rules" or interpretations of "rules". When you give someone a
uniform (it's an allegory), you give him power, which must be handled with
care... and intelligence.

I see all this as a lack of intelligence/common sense.

------
kaonashi
Usually these types of things are about punishing interracial relationships.

~~~
sigma2015
both the guy and the gf are black - interestingly this is not mentioned in the
text.

~~~
kaonashi
I guess it's more about punishing black male sexuality in this case.

------
jzd
North Carolina. Black people. Got it

