

SpaceX designed Dragon for Mars - listrophy
http://www.parabolicarc.com/2011/05/03/nasa-send-dragon-mars/

======
hugh3
This is, of course, still not for manned flights as previously discussed
(damned if anyone's gonna spend six months to a year crammed into a Dragon)
but it would be interesting to know how the economics work out for unmanned
probes.

On one hand, you've got the fact that a lot of the Dragon is excess weight you
don't really need to send to Mars. On the other hand, you've got the savings
in R&D if you can just send your robot up in a commodity capsule rather than
having to design a landing system from scratch. Oh, and let's not forget the
fact that one-off custom-designed landing systems don't have a great record of
successful landings on Mars.

~~~
rbanffy
You would go to Mars on a larger spacecraft (or a space station placed on an
Aldrin cycler orbit) and use your Dragon to catch up with the transfer vehicle
and then, again, to land on your destination. With this, you only need to pack
your supplies for the trip on the Dragon plus any spares the cycler-station
has to carry.

Please note the Dragon, once landed on Mars, will stay there. You could mount
it on top of a return stack if you had a crane. I wonder what's heavier - a
Dragon or a crane that could lift one. The return stack could be deployed
before the astronauts arrive and manufacture fuel required for the ascent and
rendezvous with the return (or cycler) vehicle while they are on their way to
Mars.

I find a Moon landing more interesting. On Mars you can use the atmosphere to
brake, but on the Moon you have to fight a lower gravity to land.

~~~
FrojoS
Moon landing with humans has been done before but on Mars there seem to be
still a few open problems. [1] However, I would bet all my money and more,
that Musk, SpaceX and co. will get the job done within two decades if not a
lot sooner.

[1] This was posted on HN before by joey
[http://www.universetoday.com/7024/the-mars-landing-
approach-...](http://www.universetoday.com/7024/the-mars-landing-approach-
getting-large-payloads-to-the-surface-of-the-red-planet/)

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2479053>

~~~
rbanffy
I would recommend a Moon landing and a permanent base before we attempt to go
for Mars.

~~~
hugh3
I used to be in two minds about this, but now I think I agree with you. Let's
solve the problem of building a semi-self-sufficient colony on the rock in our
own backyard before we try to solve the same problem on a rock a thousand
times further away.

All progress in space exploration has been made with baby steps. We flew men
around the backside of the Moon three times before actually attempting a
landing. Apollo 10 took a lunar lander within 40,000 feet of the lunar surface
without landing. Whatever problems are going to arise with a Mars base I think
it'd be better to solve 'em with a Moon base first. Apart from anything else
it's easy to get home from the Moon if you need to evacuate, whereas easy
transfers from Mars to Earth only crop up every eighteen months or so.

Oh, and if you're not aware there's _already_ a SpaceX flight to the Moon
scheduled for 2013; one of the teams for the Lunar X-Prize (Astrobotic
Technology) has booked one up.

~~~
rbanffy
> Oh, and if you're not aware there's already a SpaceX flight to the Moon
> scheduled for 2013

Wow! That's really cool. What kind of mass can SpaceX put on the lunar
surface? Anyone cares to do the math?

~~~
hugh3
Luckily SpaceX has already done it for us. A Falcon 9 can supposedly put three
tons on the Moon, or two tons on Mars:

[http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?cha...](http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?channel=space&id=news/asd/2011/02/08/01.xml&headline=SpaceX%20Lands%20Contract%20To%20Fly%20To%20Moon)

Not sure if that includes the fuel you'll need for a soft landing, though.

For comparison, an Apollo lunar lander was fifteen tons including fuel. I'm
guessing a Falcon 9 Heavy could manage that.

~~~
rbanffy
A Falcon 9 can put 9900 Kg on LEO. A 9 heavy can put 5 times as much. It's
reasonable to extrapolate that to about 15 tons on lunar surface or 10 on
Mars.

As for Mars, you can use the atmosphere to shed some speed. You can't do the
same on the Moon, but your speed will be lower, so, it may as well end up
being the same.

------
MikeCapone
Maybe it's just me, but the PR from SpaceX lately is making me think that they
are gearing up for an IPO. Time will tell..

Update: I found this from April: [http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/04/12/us-
spaceexploration...](http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/04/12/us-
spaceexploration-idUKTRE73B7US20110412)

~~~
hugh3
SpaceX is one of the few companies in whose IPO I would invest even if I
didn't think it was a rational use of my money.

And honestly I'm not sure if it is, but if I'm going to lose my money in a
poor investment it might as well go into making rockets!

~~~
FrojoS
I so much second this!

