
The new £1 Coin - Velox
https://www.thenewpoundcoin.com/
======
wonderous
How the "hidden high security feature"* in the new £1 coin works is covered
here:

[https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/53673/how-
does-...](https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/53673/how-does-the-
authentication-in-the-new-uk-£1-coin-work)

* Royal Mint’s new anti-counterfeiting technology, which can be authenticated by high-speed automated detection, was called Integrated Secure Identification Systems (ISIS) - but for obvious reasons, they've stopped using that name.

~~~
eumoria
K, damn.

~~~
katerberg
Per the article, one in thirty of these coins are counterfeit.

~~~
monk_e_boy
Occasionally you do get a pound coin that is slightly heavy. I guess those are
the counterfeit ones. Bit hard for the layman to tell.

~~~
Symbiote
It's not too difficult for most of them.

Drop it edgeways on the table. Most counterfeit ones don't give the proper
'clunk', maybe the material isn't right.

Or, the colour or alignment would be bad, or they'd appear more worn than
normal.

I don't think the 1/30 fakes are evenly spread around the country. When I
lived in London, they were much more common than that.

------
oneeyedpigeon
As a UK citizen, it stuns me that one-in-thirty pound coins is a fake because
a) i can't imagine how it's possibly worth it b) out of the thousands of pound
coins i must have handled, I've never spotted a fake - they must be very good.
Still, the new coin certainly looks nice!

~~~
mootothemax
> I've never spotted a fake - they must be very good

Some regions seem to get more than others, I used to see large numbers in the
change I got in London.

The quickest "tell" for me is the lettering on the edge. Some of it is
shockingly poor quality and almost looks like someone took a soldering iron to
draw it on.

The next time a machine rejects one of your pound coins, take another look at
it, there's a good chance it's fake.

EDIT: Here's the first page I found looking for example images:

[http://www.larkinweb.co.uk/miscellany/counterfeit_one_pound_...](http://www.larkinweb.co.uk/miscellany/counterfeit_one_pound_coins.html)

To my eye they look really shonky.

Edit II: A couple more examples:

[http://www.cryst.co.uk/category/fake-pound-
coins/](http://www.cryst.co.uk/category/fake-pound-coins/)

[http://www.employees.org/~tw/quids/quids.html](http://www.employees.org/~tw/quids/quids.html)

FinalEditIPromiseNoReally:

Check out this stack, they're almost comically bad:

[http://blog.alism.com/wp-
content/2006/08/coinstack.jpg](http://blog.alism.com/wp-
content/2006/08/coinstack.jpg)

(found on this blog: [http://blog.alism.com/fake-one-pound-coins-part-
three/](http://blog.alism.com/fake-one-pound-coins-part-three/))

~~~
coroxout
Interesting. Thanks for the links.

I have indeed had some pound coins which were tatty round the edges and had to
be pushed through a self-service checkout several times or wouldn't even go
through at all. I still hadn't realised they might be fake, though.

I have noticed that a lot of old 10p coins are noticeably a lot thinner
(presumably worn down rather than starting out thinner) than new ones. Is this
as it should be or should I start looking at these with suspicion too?

~~~
Reason077
_I have noticed that a lot of old 10p coins are noticeably a lot thinner
(presumably worn down rather than starting out thinner)_

Prior to about 2010, 5p and 10p coins really were thinner. They were changed
from copper/nickel alloy (Cupronickel) to nickel-plated steel to reduce costs.
But in order to maintain the same weight, the coins had to be made thicker.

~~~
coroxout
Didn't know that - thanks!

You can get answers on so many topics on HN...

------
wonderous
For any interested in the related costs:

[https://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/mar/19/cost-new-
pound...](https://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/mar/19/cost-new-pound-coin-
business)

Seems like there are £45m worth of counterfeit coins in circulation, but the
switch may cost over £100 million.

____

EDIT: The percent of fake coins in circulation appears to be in flux, which
makes me wonder what methods they use to estimate the fakes in circulation, if
they use controls like injecting known fakes into the count to see if they are
spotted, if the sample is truly random, the maths is correct, etc.:

1% 2004 [1]

3.03% May 2014 [2]

2.55% May 2015 [2]

Of note is that the Royal Mint states in the 2016 annual report that the last
survey for fakes was in May 2015, but the report was issued in July 2016,
which means at least as of that date they failed to do the annual survey; or
at least publish the results.[3]

[1]
[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/10707540/...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/10707540/How-
can-I-spot-a-fake-1-coin.html)

[2] [http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/counterfeit-
one-p...](http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/counterfeit-one-pound-
coins)

[3]
[http://www.royalmint.com/~/media/Files/AnnualReports/ar_2015...](http://www.royalmint.com/~/media/Files/AnnualReports/ar_2015_2016.pdf)

~~~
andy_ppp
So there was no point in doing it? This seems super weird for a financial
institution that should be looking at hard data; maybe they did some analysis
about the increasing ease of forgery?

~~~
petercooper
Not sure if this is flawed, but I want to attempt an analogy that felt right
to me.. Let's say they figured out catching a thief cost £500 and it became
public knowledge the police wouldn't investigate any theft under £500. The
cost of transitioning to the £1 seems worth it to prevent further abuse.

~~~
thaumasiotes
> Let's say they figured out catching a thief cost £500 and it became public
> knowledge the police wouldn't investigate any theft under £500.

Is this not already true? When my laptop was stolen, I was advised "don't
bother reporting it to the police".

~~~
jessaustin
It might well be true, but the police themselves can't say that it's true in
an irrevocable way. The recent indie film "I Don't Feel at Home in This World
Anymore" is an entertaining consideration of this scenario.

------
itaysk
Watching the video - I was waiting for John Ive voice at the end saying "it's
the best coin we've ever made"

------
doktrin
> "Approximately one in thirty £1 coins in circulation is a counterfeit."

That took me completely by surprise. Is there really that much of a market in
counterfeit coins? The profit margins just seem so modest relative to
counterfeit bills.

~~~
mootothemax
> That took me completely by surprise. Is there really that much of a market
> in counterfeit coins? The profit margins just seem so modest relative to
> counterfeit bills.

If no one's checking for counterfeit coins, and the users themselves don't
know they exist, it sounds like a pretty awesome opportunity for the
counterfeiters.

Just take a look at the number of comments here saying the same thing as you -
from a counterfeiter's perspective, it sounds pretty ideal.

~~~
TillE
But, what do you _do_ with your counterfeit coins? You've invested all this
money and effort in minting equipment, but it would look extremely weird to
spend more than like 20 at once.

Unless they can fool machines, it seems very inefficient.

~~~
lb1lf
My best bet, after mulling this over for a few minutes is that the fake coins
are sold in bulk to people who handle lots of small change - kiosks, fast-food
joints etc - then they just mix them in with the real money in the register
for giving change.

~~~
clubm8
What I want to know is why would you counterfeit (serious charge) when you can
use a similar looking coin? For example

I was given a South African 5 Rand coin in my change in Amsterdam (should have
been a €2 coin):

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:5-za-
rand.JPG](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:5-za-rand.JPG)

Broke a 20 getting intoxicated in a bar/coffeeshop, then bought a kebab after
on my walk back. Kebab shop was only place I got metal change that night.

I didn't notice until the next day when a coffee place threw a fuss when I
used it to pay for my espresso.

I suspect they often mix them in for drunk tourists.

~~~
lb1lf
That idea has been tried out before with great success - in the 1880s.(0)

Adjusted only for changes in the CPI, Josh Tatum netted $121 in today's
dollars every time he spent a gold-plated nickel.

(0) [https://www.pcgs.com/News/The-Man-Who-Could-Stop-The-
Mint](https://www.pcgs.com/News/The-Man-Who-Could-Stop-The-Mint)

------
sklivvz1971
Funnily, the new "most secure" pound will be introduced one day before a
pretty big event, Mrs. May's Article 50 invocation, which widely predicted to
devalue the pound significantly.

You might buy new pounds as "secure" coins, but you'll probably some
percentage of their value the next day...

~~~
dan1234
Article 50 has been priced into the markets for months, I’d be very surprised
to see any significant movement.

~~~
ascorbic
You'd think so, but every stage in the process so far has led to another drop,
at least temporarily, even though they've all be widely trailed beforehand.

------
legulere
Another possible recent security feature is a polymer ring:
[http://news.coinupdate.com/germany-introduces-next-
generatio...](http://news.coinupdate.com/germany-introduces-next-generation-
polymer-ring-circulation-coin-for-2016/)

~~~
jo909
It's super cool, but this coin is not used in general circulation and is more
or less only a collectors item.

~~~
nicky0
That seems weird. Why would they spend 10 years of research to produce a one-
off collectors item?

~~~
masklinn
To demonstrate feasibility and estimate costs. The tech could then eventually
be rolled out but since Germany is part of the EU for EU-wide legal tender all
mints need to switch: "standard" euro coins have a common design and reverse,
and a national obverse (with some restrictions).

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Nitpick, but you mean the Eurozone specifically.

~~~
masklinn
Guilty as charged.

------
anothercomment
For a moment I thought/hoped the UK would introduce an official
cryptocurrency...

~~~
ardaozkal
I kinda hoped that they'd include something like an RFID chip with something
like a certificate inside, signed by the royal mint (Turkish government
recently switched IDs to something like that).

That'd allow verifying every single new coin (unless it is damaged to the
level of breaking the rfid chip, but I suppose that's not that easy).

It'd also enable tracking. I kinda regret that idea now. BUT if used
responsibly, that can significantly reduce the counterfeiting by the means of
somehow cloning the RFID chip (which wouldn't be simple if done properly --
there aren't any successful attacks on proper implementations of stuff like
mifare desfire EV1/EV2 afaik). A coin was used on a market on london on 10am
and with an ATM on Glasgow on 10:30am? Yeah, flag that coin down.

~~~
mbrookes
_" Hidden high security feature – a high security feature is built into the
coin to protect it from counterfeiting in the future."_

So you never know - but how would that work inside a metal coin?

~~~
ardaozkal
> So you never know - but how would that work inside a metal coin?

That's a good point, I completely oversaw that.

~~~
blacksmith_tb
I don't think it's entirely unfeasible, the entire coin could act as the
antenna (instead of shielding one, that is).

------
sergior
Coin has WiFi and a microphone and sends data to the nearest surveillance spot
if it is in range.

~~~
marcosdumay
If they weren't metallic, it wouldn't be a bad idea to put some RFID in them,
or even set some secret handshake to automatically detect false coins.

~~~
cat199
There is likely an embedded known hash/serial number/other identifier in the
U/V signature for exactly this.

------
DonaldFisk
It reminds me of the old threepenny (prounounced "thrupny") bit:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threepence_%28British_coin%29](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threepence_%28British_coin%29)

~~~
arthurfm
The Royal Mint are actually selling a commemorative set that includes the new
£1 along with a old Threepence coin.

[http://www.royalmint.com/shop/h/hisoneth](http://www.royalmint.com/shop/h/hisoneth)

~~~
loader
Because of the increase in traffic to this page I was actually put into a
queue before I could view the page, how very British.

------
ChuckMcM
Wow: _" Approximately one in thirty £1 coins in circulation is a
counterfeit."_

I have about a dozen £1 coins in my informal 'collection of currency from
other places' bag and it looks like 2 of them are probably counterfeit (at
least by the standards of the Royal Mint) one clearly is, the date and back
picture don't match, the other has fairly poor milling around it.

------
blue1
> Hidden high security feature – a high security feature is built into the
> coin to protect it from counterfeiting in the future.

"security through obscurity" as a feature?

~~~
philh
What's even the benefit of anti-counterfeiting measures that people don't know
about? It doesn't matter if you fail a test that nobody knows to run.

Presumably some people will know about it, but who? If banks are the only
places that can detect a fake, for example, does that gain you anything?

I suppose you can do something like "ah, this bank is getting a lot of fake
coins, which means they're probably getting injected somewhere in the local
area, maybe let's interview some people who've been cashing them in and see if
there are any businesses they all frequent". Might be valuable.

Something I've missed?

~~~
CoryG89
Perhaps that's the point. They have a secret method for checking the
authenticity of a coin such that counterfeiters do not know to imitate. This
doesn't help the population to distinguish counterfeits, but it may help the
government more easily keep track of the ratio of counterfeit coins out there.

~~~
noja
So why mention it at all?

------
rbanffy
What happens if they have to remove the thistle and the shamrock after Brexit?

~~~
Chris2048
Why Brexit? Do you mean Scottish Independence?

~~~
Daviey
Some would say those two are linked.

~~~
Chris2048
If that was the intent, why not just mention SI directly?

------
sengork
Some of the dual metal build coins suffer from faults when they are exposed to
cold environments. Once can test for this by placing the coin inside a freezer
and observing one of the metals shrink to the point where it disconnects from
the other part of the coin.

There are much older examples of latent image technology on coins, for example
Russian 10 ruble circa year 2000 (look at the middle area of the '0'
character): [https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/coin-rubles-russian-
commemor...](https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/coin-rubles-russian-
commemorative-edition-31451612.jpg)

------
tehabe
It looks like a nicer version of the 1 euro coin. I like that the coin isn't
round but 12-sided, which will certainly help visually impaired people use the
coin. I wonder if they will introduce a new 6-sided 50p coin.

~~~
SaltySolomon
Euro Coins are actually designed to be distiguishable by blind people, they
have different edges and sizes. I once was at a blindness awareness workshop
and it is just one of those things you usually don't think about it.

~~~
Symbiote
So are the British coins, and personally, I think they're a lot better -- the
seven-sided 20p and 50p are much easier to 'feel' than the 20¢ and 50¢.

------
d--b
Just curious, has anyone any insight into what that "hidden high security
feature is"?

~~~
chrisseaton
I think it's some kind of radio signal transceiver, because I saw a video
where they talk about detecting it at high speed from a small distance as
coins pass through a system.

~~~
TorKlingberg
That seems expensive, and easy to find by cutting one apart. I suspect it's
something about the metal composition, detected with spectroscopy.

~~~
JorgeGT
It could be a passive radio device, maybe just a loop of ferromagnetic
material that gives a particularly noticeable electromagnetic response when
excited at a certain radiofrequency.

~~~
VLM
A 1 uCi radioactive source is exempt in the USA yet quite easily detectable.

I suspect sooner or later someone is going to try radioactive currency.

I'm so old that when I went to uni we did a neutron activation of silver
experiment in physics class because the half life of whatever isotope of
silver was about a minute, so after an hour of lab you could put the coin back
in your pocket. I don't know if they'd let college kids play with either a
solid silver quarter from a few decades ago (probably worth a couple bucks
today) OR a low level neutron source today. I could see picking some very
obscure isotope of some obscure metal and dissolving it into the metal of the
coin and if your xray metal analysis machine that scrapyards have (a kilobuck
ish cost in a hand held device) detects the proper amount of iridium or
whatever or a simple neutron activation followed by gamma spectrometer shows
the right isotope in there...

Aside from spontaneous emissions and activation reactions, there are some
weird cross sections out there. Whatever's irresistable to thermal neutrons
thats used in reactors, probably a cadmium alloy, could be the core of a coin,
and then blasting boring thermal neutrons that are semi-transparent to fakes
but the cadmium core coins would look pitch black from eating all the
neutrons. Or play the opposite game and make the coins out of pure neutron-
transparent zirconium and only the neutron transparent coins are legit.

------
enthdegree
Is it a curve of constant width like the 20p and 50p? If its sides are
straight it cannot be.

Also from wiki:

> The new design is intended to make counterfeiting more difficult, via an
> undisclosed hidden security feature, called 'iSIS' (Integrated Secure
> Identification Systems). [1]

Huh.

[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_pound_(British_coin)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_pound_\(British_coin\))

~~~
_archon_
The coin does appear to be a Reuleaux solid, which was a relief to me. British
coins are some of the most common Reuleaux solids in the world.

The sides are not straight; they are curved outwards. The curve is defined by
an arc of a circle whose center is the opposite corner on the coin.

It's a neat class of shapes! My dive into them came while researching the
rotary Wankel engine (rotors are roughly Reuleaux triangles)

~~~
chiph
But with an even number of sides (12 in the new coin), can that work?

~~~
_archon_
It can not. Reuleaux solids must have an odd number of vertices, or they
indeed don't work. It would appear that I didn't have my brain fully on this
morning.

To apply the principle of Reuleaux geometry to a regular shape with an even
number of vertices, you'd make arcs tangent to the point in question,
extending in a curve that increases the coin's diameter as the arc gets
longer. The arc would come to an end in a point midway to the next point,
where it would intersect with that point's arc. You'd have a star-shaped solid
where all geometry external to the inscribed circle are tapered triangles.
Kind of neat, but it would be tough to put through a vending machine.

------
muse900
What I don't get is why we need coins anymore? Can't they just make £1 pound
note same to the £5 one? I am always annoyed when I got coins on me and I
never pay attention to them. Why not make £1 worth more by making it a note?
Why not move away from notes nowadays? Is there any specific reason to that?

Is there just too much metal sitting around that they thought that would be an
ok use of it?

~~~
pjc50
We _used_ to have pound notes, and they're still technically in circulation in
Scotland (although I've never seen one). According to wikipedia they were
withdrawn because:

"Part of the reason for this change was that notes, on average, lasted only
nine months in general circulation, while coins could last forty years or
more. The government also believed that the growing vending industry would
benefit from the introduction of a one pound coin."

Maybe the economics have changed with polymer notes. But the BoE inflation
calculator tells me that the £1 notes withdrawn (in 1984 money) would be worth
about £3 today. So maybe the fiver is next.

Then there's the lunatics that want to abolish physical money altogether...

~~~
kuschku
> So maybe the fiver is next.

Something like that is already being discussed on the continent.

The memorial 5€ coin recently (which is legal tender) wasn’t just that, but it
was also a test if a 5€ coin would be accepted, and doable.

~~~
RugnirViking
We do also have memorial £5 coins here in the UK although I don't know if they
are a test for anything, as there have been quite a few over the years. A
common gift for people as they are quite large with nice designs on

------
koolba
> Hidden high security feature – a high security feature is built into the
> coin to protect it from counterfeiting in the future.

I bet there's an RFID in each coin that uniquely identifies each one. If true,
it'd also let them (or a thief!) identify the total value of the coins
jingling in your pocket.

> Approximately one in thirty £1 coins in circulation is a counterfeit.

That seems incredibly high! Anyone have comparable stats for US dollar bills
or 1 Euro coins?

> The legal tender status of the round £1 coin will be withdrawn on 15th
> October 2017. From this date shops will no longer accept these coins, but
> you will still be able to take them to your bank. We would encourage you to
> use your coins or return them to your bank before 15th October.

Six-months is a pretty short window for something like this.

What prevents a shop from accepting the coins after Oct 15th and then _they_
take it to the bank?

Also, how does the 1/30 fraud number impact the returns of the current pound
notes?

~~~
askvictor
How would the RF get past the metal casing?

~~~
koolba
Could be a ring on the outside between the two layers.

------
DINKDINK
Many commenters in this thread are speculating on how counterfeiters are
inserting the, apparently large volume of, counterfeit coins. Maybe one source
is actually unrepudible /merchants/. In dispensing change to customers, market
participants it would seem be less likely to scrutinize the coinage.

~~~
mootothemax
> Many commenters in this thread are speculating on how counterfeiters are
> inserting the, apparently large volume of, counterfeit coins

I've written elsewhere that I reckon other criminal channels might be in use.

If you offer your street level drug dealers a choice of 1,000 pounds in "real"
money or 2,000 in "fake," (or a mixture of them both) that'd probably do the
job.

I'm working off the assumption that there's the exact same problem with
distributing drugs.

Like, what would you do with a kilo or two of cocaine just lying around? Get
many smaller dealers to handle the problem for you instead and make their
money along the way.

If you also have some fake money lying around, I can't see any reason why you
wound't try to combine the two.

~~~
dmurray
This doesn't work because "your street level drug dealers" pay you, not the
other way around. They get paid by keeping a portion of the proceeds, or of
the drugs.

It works if you need to employ petty criminals for jobs other than sales,
though.

------
flexie
Isn't it 14 sides?

~~~
Operyl
Hahahah. I guess technically it is, nice catch.

------
bhauer
That coin is a beauty. It looks like it would be a denomination much higher
than £1.

As someone who collected coins a child, I've been a tad disappointed by some
of the newer designs coming out of the US Mint. Some are classy, others seem a
bit goofy.

But this new pound coin is very tasteful. Well done, Royal Mint!

~~~
cat199
US Mint's seeming priority is cost cutting in metals rather than counterfeit
coins, since our paper money is so simple I think counterfeiters are focused
on that in the lower denominations..

UK notes are much more sophisticated even for the lower denominations, so
probably there is more focus is on coins..

------
smcl
"The pound won’t be round for much longer" is a pretty awful tagline, I'm not
sure they realised what this sounds like...

~~~
raulk
The new coin is still called "pound", so indeed the statement makes no sense.

~~~
DonaldFisk
It won't be round though, it'll be dodecahedral. It makes perfect sense, but
has two possible meanings.

~~~
IshKebab
Yes he knows; he's saying that the pun is a bit shit because only one of the
two meanings is actually true.

------
beloch
Canada has an 11-sided 1 dollar coin (the loonie) and a bimetallic 2 dollar
coin (the toonie). This new £1 coin is basically a mash-up of the two.

Fair warning: People are going to put these things in pneumatic presses, hit
them with sledge-hammers, etc. and then claim their brand new £1 coins are
defective and "just fell apart". You should probably ignore these people. I'd
be very surprised if the Royal Mint hadn't talked to the Canadian Mint and
made sure they know how to make these things absolutely bomber.

~~~
dan1234
The UK has been using bimetallic coins (£2 coin) since 1998.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_pounds_(British_coin)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_pounds_\(British_coin\))

~~~
huxley
The bimetallic Toonie from Canada came out in 1996, but Italy beat everyone
with their 500 Lire in 1982

------
himlion
Is counterfeiting coins very lucrative?

~~~
chippy
From my other comment above:

We know 1 in 30 £1 coins are counterfeit.

Take the amount of £1 coins in circulation. Sum the value. Divide by 30.
Equals the market in counterfeit coins.

From [http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/circulation-
coin-...](http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/circulation-coin-mintage-
figures) £1 are 1,671.328 £m / 30 = 55.71 £m

The market in counterfeit coins is therefore over 55 million pounds. This is,
however the cumulative, total value of the market and not per year.

~~~
refurb
That doesn't really answer the question though. Is all the effort to create a
fake 1 GBP coin worth it? Unless you have access to the right equipment, I
can't imagine it is based on the effort to make each coin.

If you can make 8x1 GBP coins a hour, then you clear a cool 64 GBP each day.
Better than nothing (and tax free!), but there are a lot of jobs that pay
better than that.

~~~
falsedan
Well yeah, you'd buy a stamping press and mint 10k/day.

I fear HN underestimates the amount of work people will do to avoid getting a
boring (legal) job.

------
tyingq
Looks a bit like the failed US Susan B Anthony $1 coin.
[https://en.numista.com/catalogue/photos/etats-
unis/g1288.jpg](https://en.numista.com/catalogue/photos/etats-unis/g1288.jpg)

~~~
ars
That failed because people don't like to carry coins, they prefer bills.

In the UK they don't have a 1 pound bill, forcing people to only use coins.

Coins are cheaper for the government since they last much longer.

So if you were a government, which would you pick: What your people want, or
what's cheaper for you?

~~~
dragonwriter
Note that the people often may directly want one thing, but also want
indirectly what is cheaper for government, since they also usually don't want
to pay more taxes, and do want government to do things.ib other domains that
are constrained if it spends more than necessary in the domain under immediate
consideration.

Government officials really have no other reason to care about "cheaper for
government", since it's not their money anyway.

------
bambax
Why not make the new £1 coin Euro compatible? Despite Brexit and all, it would
make so much sense to share the same dimensions for the pound and the Euro.

Old pound: diameter 22.5 mm, thickness 3.15 mm.

New pound: diameter 22.63 - 23.43mm [1], thickness 2.8 mm.

Euro: diameter 23.25 mm, thickness 2.33 mm.

So close and yet so different! Why??!?

Edit: Okay, I'm not sure why I saw "so much sense" in having the pound and the
Euro the same size. I go to the UK often and hate having different coin sizes
in my pockets, but obviously the pound and the Euro aren't the same value, so
there's no real reason they should be of the same size...

[1] Since the new pound isn't round but dodecagonal, the diameter isn't
constant; the smallest value is the diameter of the incircle and the other
value, the diameter of the circumcircle.

~~~
adaml_623
Because then vending machines would accept Euro coins as well as pound coins
and you would be able to obtain goods for 60%(?) of the asking price??

~~~
martinclayton
Modern vending machines are not so easily fooled.

But, the old UK 5 pence and German 1 mark coins had quite similar dimensions,
and were made from the same material, so vending machines at that time were
fooled by the 5p, which was worth much less than the mark. I understand that
truckloads of coins were sent back to Britain as a result.

------
nailer
So is the 'hidden high security feature' NFC? Something similar?

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berberous
How much lighter is the new coin? I have to say, the old £1 coin is my
favorite I have ever seen in the world. It had a great heft/weight/size to it.

------
mirekrusin
After two pints it won't be distinguishable from € coin, many people have both
in pockets, it's already hard for < 1 €/£ :(

~~~
throwanem
Two pints of _what?_ Tequila? What in God's name do you have on tap over
there, that a mere two pints gets you so blind you can't tell coins apart?

~~~
mirekrusin
Poor sight from programming probably.

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Keverw
That looks neat. Never seen a coin before that changes based on how you look
at it. I kinda want one, even though I'm in the US.

~~~
cjg
I'll post you one if you like.

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bigbugbag
How is this claim substantiated ? I fail to see any difference from the coins
that are widely available around the world.

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Asooka
Made to look like the 1Euro coin to ease the transition to Euro currency in
the future, I'm sure.

------
ryanmarsh
> Approximately one in thirty £1 coins in circulation is a counterfeit.

That's staggering.

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peterbraden
Will they have to replace it as soon as the Queen dies? Seems wasteful.

------
krick
It's really pretty. I wish euros would be designed that well.

------
Graham24
I'll be glad to see the back of the old Thatcher.

------
tomovo
At first I thought this was some Euro-related prank.

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gaspoweredcat
i like how they on longer mention the name of the technology inside it which
when it was first announced was to be called "ISIS"

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billpg
I don't like it.

[http://www.thesunsetlounge.co.uk/Images/PoundedPound.jpg](http://www.thesunsetlounge.co.uk/Images/PoundedPound.jpg)

------
ajarmst
I like the optimism of keeping symbols of Ireland and Scotland on the coin. Of
course, those could become ironic in the not-to-distant. The leek seems safe,
though.

------
miguelrochefort
Is my business ready? Why wouldn't it?

~~~
Patrick_Devine
Many reasons.

\- You have vending machines which only take the old coins \- You haven't sat
down with your retail employees to make certain they can identify the security
features of the new coins \- You don't have sorting machines which can handle
the new coins so that you can have an accurate inventory of your coinage \-
You don't have a policy in place for removing the old coins from circulation

Those are just off the top of my head.

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TheArcane
> a high security feature is built into the coin to protect it from
> counterfeiting in the future.

Reminds me of the Indian Rupee 2000 'gps feature'

------
udev
Designed in California. /s

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zeristor
Coins?

How much longer will we be using coins for?

~~~
iand
Hopefully a long time, unless you are happy with your spending being mediated
and controlled by a third party.

------
jyoung789
I wonder how many people are going to try to push out the middle the way they
do to the toonie.

------
clamprecht
It's interesting that they chose .com versus .co.uk for their domain.

------
oblio
I see by the design that they're already planning for Br-re-entry.

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noja
dot com? Why?

~~~
robin_reala
The Royal Mint is a state-owned enterprise and not a government department.
For a start, they produce currency for other countries directly, which is not
something the government would want to do.

~~~
noja
This coin is being produced for the UK.

~~~
robin_reala
Yes, but they also produced coins and notes for 39 other countries in 2015-16:
[http://www.royalmint.com/~/media/Files/AnnualReports/ar_2015...](http://www.royalmint.com/~/media/Files/AnnualReports/ar_2015_2016.pdf)

~~~
noja
The website is not for the Royal Mint, which of course needs a dot com
address, this website is for the new UK pound coin. Why does the new UK pound
coin, with a UK audience, not use a UK domain?

~~~
robin_reala
Oh, oops, hadn’t realised what you meant. Presumably seeing as it’s not a
company though a .info would be more appropriate though?

~~~
noja
.info would also be non-uk.

There is the .uk domain in the uk, so www.newpoundcoin.uk would work.

------
wtvanhest
They probably should have continued using the letters. The more things called
ISIS the less important those letters are to any one thing, including the
terrorist org.

~~~
ajross
The "terrorist org" never used those letters in the first place. The acronym
in Arabic is "Daesh". ISIS is an English-language acronym formed from a
(bad[1]) translation of the group's name. Think about it: why would a
decidedly muslim organization name itself in a foreign language after a
forgotten infidel goddess?

[1] Most western journalists rapidly moved off onto ISIL, which is a better
translation (the name never referred to Syria the nation, but the geographical
area better captured by "Levant"). Really only the right-wing sources continue
to use "ISIS", presumably because it sounds more like a Bond villain's outfit.

~~~
booleandilemma
If we want to make them angry we should be calling them daesh.

[https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2014/10/09/words-
matter-...](https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2014/10/09/words-matter-isis-
war-use-daesh/V85GYEuasEEJgrUun0dMUP/story.html)

~~~
chrisseaton
Calling them a nasty name? Do you really think that's a mature and effective
strategy in this situation?

~~~
booleandilemma
Of course it shouldn't be the only thing we do, far from it, but as Sun Tzu
said:

"If your opponent is of choleric temper, irritate him"

~~~
CamelCaseName
How many ISIS members do you think will read these comments?

IMHO, it is just childish, and to me, devalues someone's comments when they
resort to insults. It's as if you were talking g about Trump or Clinton but
referring to them as "idiot" rather than by name. It's simply unnecessary and
shows clouded, emotional, judgement.

------
comice
The website for the most secure coin in the world only gets a B rating from
ssllabs:
[https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=www.thenewpou...](https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=www.thenewpoundcoin.com)

~~~
xiphias
I just checked bitcoin.org as a comparision (A+):
[https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=bitcoin.org](https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=bitcoin.org)

~~~
ForHackernews
If only bitcoin exchanges were actually secure...

------
fiatjaf
Containing 1 pound of silver in it? No, so it's fake.

------
im3w1l
From my understanding, all money is created as debt. Counterfeits would be an
exception. What is the impact of this?

~~~
dx034
If you do it on a large enough scale you'd get inflation as you have more
money supply for the same amount of goods so that the money loses value. This
would then lead the central bank to raise rates to counteract inflation. This
in turn is bad for the economy (more expensive to take out a loan leads to
less investment) so you could get a recession. I doubt that you'd be able to
inject enough counterfeit money for that, though.

However, most central banks do that on a much larger scale at the moment to
get that inflation and it doesn't really work (the Bank of England has stopped
that though).

~~~
Already__Taken
This sounds like one of those things that's not a problem but becomes
unfixable when it is a problem. Like you say it's the scale required.

------
fiatjaf
What is the difference between counterfeit and "original" coins? Unless they
have 1 pound of silver in them they're all fake money.

I think everybody should just accept and use counterfeit coins, if they look
like the coins issued by the central bank.

