

Ask HN: Am I being paid fairly? - promontis

I'm a 26 year old programmer working for a large IT company as a temp. My current job is at a large investment agency.<p>When comparing myself with others in my field, I find myself having better skills than any of them. I know I'm good, other people say this as well.<p>However, my employer doesn't want to give me the salary my colleagues have, blaming the current economy. My gross income is 2800 per month. So that's almost 17 euro per hour, versus the 75 euro per hour what's being paid for me. So, 75 / 17 = an operating margin (is that the correct term?) of 4.5. Ofcourse, the company has overhead, so they ask a standard margin of 2.6 which includes a profit margin.<p>Furthermore, I do get an end year allowance of 8,33%, normal amount of holidays, and a lease car (catalog value of 33.000 euro) which costs me 380 euro per month. So my net income is somewhat around 1500 euro per month.<p>Is this normal?
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helen842000
Do some investigating into the temporary worker regulations for the country
you are in.

Here in the UK a recent law came into force where temporary workers have to be
paid the same as colleagues in the same role after 12 weeks. They should also
get the same performance related bonuses too.

It's worth checking if your company need to pay your agency a fee if you were
to join the company as a perm employee.

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hiddenfeatures
Could you please give more context? Which country are you working in? Do you
have a formal education / certificate for your qualifications?

In 2007 I earned about 1.300 Euros net (no perks) as a programmer
(Fachinformatiker Anwendungsentwicklung) in Germany. So if you don't have a
university degree, I would assume your pay to be average.

Just my 2 cents

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debacle
In our industry, I've seen labor arbitrage ratios as low as 150% and as high
as 2000%, so that's not a very good way to gauge pay - it depends on your
market, your niche in the industry, and the risk that your employer takes on.

You're making a reasonable wage assuming a below average cost of living.

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pkhamre
If you don't get the response you want here, try the Workplace Stackexchange -
<http://workplace.stackexchange.com/>

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shanelja
I'll put this in to perspective for you, you earn 4 times the amount I do for
the same field.

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hiddenfeatures
WTF ?

Are you working full-time? Which country are we talking about?

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shanelja
I work 30 hours a week for a measly GBP3.10 per hour.

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S4M
WTF?? Are you saying you are paid 90 pounds a week??? In UK?

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shanelja
Yeah, I am looking for other work actively, but at 19 with only 2 years
experience and no degree, it's pretty hard to find another job in my area, I
can't even get in the door unless I studied at Uni, it's irrelevant that I'm
actually talented in the subject matter.

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xSwag
Did you not do your a-levels? Why not try an access course? Surely this is not
the position you would like to be in? For university, the only subject you
really need for CompSci/IT courses is Mathematics (+further maths for
oxbridge/imperial/warwick). Why don't you do that? It will help you learn
fundamentals + land you much better jobs

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shanelja
No, I did not do my A-levels, instead I spent 2 1/2 years travelling Europe
and coding on the go, worked on numerous projects, many of which are still
live now, took part in over 40 freelance projects and once I came back landed
a job fairly quickly.

I don't understand the assumption that all people who didn't go in to
education don't understand the fundamentals of computer science, when in
reality, most university lectures on the subject matter are available (and
have been watched by me) online.

Your average university student spends probably less than 10 hours per week
actively studying (I have no figures to back this up), I code full time, all
day every day, then I bring my passion to my home and code late in to the
night. Which would you honestly rather have as an employee? The university
graduate with 3 years of boozing behind him, or the programmer with 3 years of
experience and references behind him?

I don't want to go to university, in my opinion, it would be a step backwards.

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S4M
Well, in general the hiring manager has himself graduated from University and
therefore thinks that if you haven't graduated from University as well, you
can't be smart.

Also there is some theory saying that to graduate from University, you have to
be smart, and therefore smart people go to University to distinguish
themselves.

I don't agree with everything, but I am sure that's how people in position to
make hiring decision tend to think in general, especially if they haven't seen
your code.

~~~
shanelja
I would be more than willing to code for them on the spot (or even for free
over the course of a week) - but I do however agree, there seems to be some
prevalent notion that the only intelligent people in the world are those who
went to university, which has some credibility to it, mostly, spending years
studying does improve your mental capabilities and most mentally challenging
fields require some level of further education, but I don't see why it has to
be so, I understand that these companies prefer to hire someone who has gone
to university, but the rudeness I have faced so far (95% of the companies I
apply for never call me back) is more befitting of a bully, than of an
'educated' person who should know better.

