
Why India outsourcing is doomed - bugsbunny123
http://www.devbattles.com/en/sand/post-490-Why+India+outsourcing+is+Doomed
======
curiousDog
Oh not this stupid argument again. Many problems he mentions aren't specific
to India, you'll find them across all developing economies (We had most of the
same issues contracting work to a Chinese and Brazilian company).

At the end of the day, you get what you pay for. And some companies are
clearly okay with said cheap work. There's a reason the IT industry in
Hyderabad/B'lore is booming. Want solid contracting work without slackers?
Sure, you can still find plenty of those too in India (thoughtworks?) but pay
up (albeit less than what you may have to in the valley). The reason you're
outsourcing core-work/parts of it to India should be that you can't find
enough talent locally; not for getting it done cheaply or because your in-
house developers think the work is 'beneath' them (I've seen this happen way
often, dev with inflated ego doesn't want to test. Wants to do a cold hand-off
and expects the cheap developers to be on his level and take dirty work off
his hands. Starts cursing). So, there's probably room for both (cheap and
expensive) industries in India. Unfortunately, you might have to expend more
effort before you find the company that fits your needs.

Articles like these insinuate nothing but Xenophobia and racism. More often
than not, Indians are always on the receiving end of it despite contributing
so much to the software industry in general. The author from Ukraine of all
places probably wants soviet like discipline and work-ethic for USSR salaries?
Yeah, ain't gonna happen comrade. The employees on the other-end aren't stupid
either. They have many friends in the US making bank working at Google/FB. Why
would they work their balls off for peanuts?

~~~
woah
Your post contains more xenophobia than the article, "comrade"

~~~
r0h1n
How is that?

~~~
ecommercematt
I think this excerpt is representative of the content that woah (reasonably,
in my estimation) found xenophobic:

"The author from Ukraine of all places probably wants soviet like discipline
and work-ethic for USSR salaries? Yeah, ain't gonna happen comrade."

~~~
woah
Correct.

------
neindanke
Not sure why the author seems to insinuate that the problems he/she has
described are somehow specific to India. We had a disaster when we outsourced
a large piece of design work to Denmark. We found out that the outsourcer in
Denmark was themselves outsourcing chunks of work to Ukraine. Our bias
assuming that an expensive Scandinavian outsourcer would be magically better
than a cheaper Asian alternative led us astray. A mistake we won't make again.
The real solution is doing proper due diligence and proper contract
maintenance clauses that ensure the outsourcers goals are aligned with yours.
That takes work, not just tossing a spec sheet across the wall.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
We outsource successfully. But we have a 1 on 1 relationship with each
developer outside our company. So no fooling us about whom it is doing the
work.

It takes real work to manage any developer. Its an illusion to think
outsourcing solve all the problems. We think of it as simply a recruitment
tool really. Not that we hire all the developers we work with. But the
outsourcing company is only there to bring in talent as needed. That talent
still needs to be managed.

~~~
IndianAstronaut
>But we have a 1 on 1 relationship with each developer outside our company

This is the main issue. Not whether the outsourcing is done to India, the
Philippines, or even in the US. The model of shipping off your large projects
to another company is going to be very problematic.

One on one relations with a good developer are going to be the way to go. A
lot of smaller startups that outsource do this.

------
neebz
The most important point is of blended rate.

Outsourcing industry has a huge conflict of interest with the customer.
Customer wants minimum number of high-quality engineers to complete work in
the minimum possible time. Outsourcing companies want the opposite. They don't
hire high-quality engineers because a) they eat in to their profit margins
because of high salaries b) they get things done quickly which reduces their
invoice.

They just want to deliver the "good enough" level of quality to ensure
customer retention.

The interests of outsourcing companies and customers are totally orthogonal.
And we all know this always end bad.

~~~
codingdave
I wish I could read the article, but it is asking me to log in, so I am
skipping it.

But your comments remind me of what I hear for a lot of Americans (and Indian
expatriates) who tend to be negative about Indian workers, when often the root
cause of their complaints are cultural differences, and the ways that it
impacts the work.

I have had great relationships with outsourced teams. But I did not get them
just from hiring someone and expecting it to work. I spent a lot of time with
my people, getting to know them, talking about how we wanted to work together,
bringing them over here so the teams on both sides could know each other. I
got to know a bit about their culture and how that impacted their work, and
learned to work with where I could, and helped them make some changes to work
better with us, where appropriate.

You would do that much for anyone on-site, so not doing it for remote workers
is doing them a dis-service.

Personally, I got good results. And invitations to their weddings, which made
me really feel like we were a team, and not just using them as a tool to get
some work done.

Maybe I just had good luck. Maybe the rest of the industry is different. But I
cannot support the comment that it "always ends bad". That does not have to be
the case.

~~~
neebz
That's great to hear.

I certainly don't think the problems are cultural. I believe it's the inherent
business model which is not aligned.

You are happy with your outsourced teams but I would love to know how do you
compare your outsourced team with your US one? I believe that their are super
quality engineers in Asia who can give you US standard of work but you will
never get access to those guys as long as you are going through an outsourcing
company. In a team of 10, maybe you'll have 1-2.

You may not think so but you can actually afford to hire 10 senior high
quality US standard guys in your outsourced teams. And it would still be 20%
of your US cost yet your partner company's interest is not in it. They'll
always tell you it's hard to hire, market competitive or difficult to retain
etc.

------
dschiptsov
Who are these "experts"? Why they are so cocksure that the problem with
outsourcing is related to any ethnicity? Oh, they are Slavic "managers" of a
lowest rank..

Outsourcing could become a problem in situation when a "man in the middle" is
incompetent and incapable to perform these tasks himself, so he obviously
cannot estimate correctly any time-frames or evaluate sub-contractor's
performance, and, most importantly, have no idea which tasks in a "project"
could be outsourced and how to split them correctly into sub-tasks and between
people to work in parallel.

What is the problem really? The answer is greed, mediocrity, incompetence and
inflated self-esteem.

------
ryanmarsh
So far the comments seem to be saying:

Not all Indians

Not all outsourced projects

I would love for someone to step up up and directly address the core argument
of this article, that is, _Indian outsourcing is doomed_.

Indian outsourcing, not outsourcing, not Indians, Indian outsourcing.

After a short 10 years observing, managing, or cleaning up after outsourced
developers in Mexico, Costa Rica, Ukraine, India and CONUS (I'm in the U.S.)
the data points I have are very consistent.

1\. Outsourcing is hard

2\. The greater the time zone difference the harder it is

3\. The greater the culture difference the harder it is

4\. The lower the average skill of available programmers the harder it is

You do the math.

From a U.S. perspective Indian outsourcing cannot possibly continue at its
current level without innovation. That simple assertion the author made, IMHO,
is both valid and correct.

I can't claim my experience is comprehensive enough to satisfy the apologists
here but my God man find me a majority of CTOs, product managers, and senior
developers who have an overall positive view of Indian outsourcing.

The last, and most controversial thing I'll say is this: The best Indian
developers aren't in India. The great ones are getting visas to Europe, N.
America and Australia. Hell there are 50 or so right now on my project that
transplanted their families for only a 1 year project. They, and their
families want to be in Europe, N. America, Australia.

edit: _sigh_ formatting

------
lifeisstillgood
I really should not be commenting on this - it feels like feedin the trolls.
Ah well. So here is my "15 years of experience and no data points" commentary

Indian Outsourcing has a history that made it the way it is today - and it has
nothing whatsoever to do with the quality or skill level of (averaged)
developers. The article smacks horribly of what I call "loud old white manager
of forty Indians" syndrome.

India in the 60s and 70s tried to cut itself off from the outside world and
political strategy effectively strangled any native IT industry in it's crib.
So Indian hackers did what hackers all over do - got round the problem, either
by emigrating or by flying out to find clients. Outsourcing was for a while
quite literally the only game in town for IT.

It worked really well - and therein lies the rub. If you want to maintain a
good client relationship with a Fortune 500 company mostly you do it at the
middle manager level.

Fast forward to 2014 - Now it is clear that software is eating the world,
senior managers are going to replace middle managers with some combination of
simplified process, automated decision making and "empowering" frontline
workers. And yet those middle managers are the ones outsourcers have spent
decades learning to work with.

This has left a mark on the Indian university system - with a lack of
professors (remember the good ones left) the schooling was left to commercial
companies - and it is only slowly recovering from this bias - "don't challenge
the loud old white guy" and "learn Java" are two axioms that (good)
universities would not teach but outsourcers have built in.

So there is innovation and hacker culture in India. But it is not as
celebrated as "going to work, having a proper job and working for a named
Fortune 500 company". Every hackers mother prefers the second one, and India
has an unusual situation that the majority of IT education prefers it too.

Apart from this quirk of history Indian outsourcing and project management is
down the line the same as every where else - gosh! Training at the expense of
the client ! Rapid turnover on internal projects! Badly spec'd out projects
with minimal business justification turn out badly!

This is not an Indian problem. This is our industry's problem - and treating
it as anything else is ... Wrong

------
munimkazia
As an Indian software developer who has some exposure to the outsourcing
industry, I have to say that I can't disagree with anything the article has to
say.

------
droithomme
I agree with other commenters that OP has conflict of interest since he is an
outsourcer as well. He hopes to establish that this other outsourcing
destination is not as high quality as his own.

That's an easy argument to attack on both "conflict of interest" and "racism"
grounds, and many in this and other threads have made that rebuttal.

It dismisses though the reality that most of what he says in his post is true,
as anyone who has actually dealt with this scenario honestly knows.

If outsourcing, there are advantages to having compliant workers who never
contradict you. It's very comforting and you can feel good about yourself
until the deadline arrives and you receive non-functional junk. But that's OK,
you're saving money, just send it back for another round, or ten or twenty, of
rework.

Dealing with guys like the OP is much harder. He's Ukrainian. He's much more
likely to tell me if what I propose is a stupid idea or I am an idiot. If I
was insecure or incompetent, that could really damage my self esteem. On the
other hand, he's much more likely to deliver a working product in accordance
with what I had in mind on the agreed upon date.

Depending on whether I am some middle manager at a big corporation for which
product quality and success is not very important, or if I am the owner of a
company that is trying to rework industry, I may find it rational to choose
one rather than the other.

------
r0h1n
Take away the point about the 12-hour difference, and you can repurpose this
article into: Why Silicon Valley startups are doomed.

-Resource Availability

-Resource Quality

\- Employee turnover

\- Mindset and work ethics

\- Cost

A truly lazy piece of writing about generic/cylical demand-supply challenges
that most booming industries end up facing.

~~~
nailer
Referring to people as resources is normally reserved for Outlook resources at
financial institutions.

~~~
collyw
Most companies above a certain size have a human _resources_ department.

~~~
nailer
Sure, but that's because most companies above a certain size are old, and
department names are the last to change. Younger companies have 'people and
culture' or similar.

------
ColinCera
Every problem he mentions, except the timezone difference, is exactly the same
when you're outsourcing to large IT consulting companies in the US. The only
difference is the US companies charge 5x-20x more for their crappy
deliverables.

How many people here have worked with a major IT consultancy in the US? How
many were satisfied with the process and result? I would be astonished if even
5 out of 100 projects outsourced _within the US_ turn out so well that
customers say, "That was great, we can't wait to work with those consultants
again."

As a veteran of half a dozen such projects using half a dozen different IT
consulting firms, my experience was they were all terrible experiences, with
rampant price-gouging (novice programmers billed at $300/hour, "senior" people
at $600-1,000/hour), conflicts of interest, poor communication, etc., and the
work products in every case were massive total failures (and no, they do not
give refunds).

I don't put much stock in this article as a specific critique of India, but as
an article about outsourcing in general it's dead-on accurate.

------
mahouse
Why do "people" links lead to "people4people.ru"? I'm afraid to click it. Is
it malware on my machine?

~~~
perlgeek
I get the same; guess it's some link building SEO.

~~~
huntern
The whole things gives me a clickbait-y feel.

------
mark_l_watson
As some people here have already commented, the trick to effective outsourcing
is building solid personal relationships. I have worked with people in India,
Vietnam, Russia, China, Ukraine, and Hungary. In most cases I keep track of
people and share life events long after work is over (or between projects).

------
perlgeek
Did anybody else find it odd that every occurrence of the world "people" is a
link? Is that some SEO link-building stuff? And if yes, do you consider that
OK?

~~~
joyrider
If so, trying to rank #1 for the word "people" is bad SEO.

------
akbar501
There are known causes of failure in software projects many of which overlap
with project failure in general. As there are two companies involved, a post-
mortem of failed projects must include problems on both sides.

On the purchaser side:

\- poor specification is a major project for both internal and external
projects

\- abdication of responsibility for resource appropriateness. Yes, you are
responsible for ensuring the vendor's engineers are a good fit for your
project.

\- failure to manage the project. PM of external resources is a specialized PM
skill.

\- changing objectives: this flows from poor specs, and results in changing
targets

\- communication failures: nuff said

\- no QA: Yes, you must quality check work of external vendors. It's amazing
how often this basic step is skipped.

On the vendor side:

\- everything above, plus

\- failure to include specification as a line item in budget

\- poor estimation

\- failure to align resources to task at hand

\- underbidding

\- inexperience in problem domain

------
SaiKumar
Most of these arguments can be made about any country and any type of
contractors, from car mechanics to house builders. Bad cost estimates, Cost
overruns, work not completed to satisfaction of the buyer, work completed but
with poor quality are all in general aspects of any kind of outsourcing.
There's a saying if you want something done and done well do it yourself.
Whoever you hire may not be able to satisfy all your expectations. Adding to
the confusion sometimes people who charge a lot do a lousy job and people who
charge less end up doing better work. Such is life.

------
JamesBarney
I worked with one of the top 5's and the biggest issue was the hierarchical
culture that seemed to give managers more status and money than coders.

I think this meant there wasn't a lot of incentive to become a great coder so
people worked very hard to take on management responsibilities and not as hard
at becoming great coders.

I'd really like to hear from people with more experience if this was just true
of this one consulting company(one of he top 5) or was this true of many
companies.

(first posted from cell phone, edited for readability)

~~~
kyllo
This phenomenon (career advancement = promotion to middle management) is also
the case at the client companies, which is part of the reason why outsourcing
is tempting to them in the first place. The never ending desire to commoditize
their inputs.

~~~
JamesBarney
At most of the companies I've been in the U.S. the difference in pay between
senior coders and middle management was slight to non-existent but if you look
at Accenture's Indian salaries associate manager makes 50% more then team
lead, and makes almost triple what a senior software engineer makes.

While this phenomenon exists in the U.S. it seems to me it is an order of
magnitude smaller then it is in India.

------
option_greek
Google cache version:
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.devbattles.com/en/sand/post-490-Why%2BIndia%2Boutsourcing%2Bis%2BDoomed&nfpr=1&biw=1193&bih=665&noj=1&strip=1)

------
quarterwave
"Finding talent in Hi Tech centers like Bangalore is almost as hard as finding
qualified people in Silicon Valley."

This is a good point. A related question: Can _more_ and _better_ work be done
by _less_ people?

If so, are 'two-dozen dev-ops' (a rhetorical number) adequate for all
scenarios?

~~~
lifeisstillgood
Yes, more and better work can be done by less people - it's axiomatic in
software. It just takes longer - and often looks like people sitting around
thinking and experimenting.

~~~
fsloth
I agree except for

"It just takes longer"

Which depends a lot on everything. As an extreme example a bunch of junior
people might develop a feature for a few sprints using TDD, XP and whatnot and
not getting it done while a single expert might implement the feature simply
and elegantly in a few days and a lot less code.

My favorite example of this are two blog artifacts: The first of which
describes an attempt to write a Sudoku solver using TDD, and as a counterpoint
Peter Norvig's simple and elegant sudoku solver in python (as previously
discussed in HN):

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3033446](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3033446)

~~~
collyw
As someone who hasn't really managed to get into TDD (despite a few attempts),
do you think this is generally the case? I do feel that TDD encourages a sort
of shotgun approach to development, where you just try things until it works,
rather than think the problem through thoroughly. Any opinions from people who
have done both? I personally find fiddling with tests interrupts my flow of
thought too much, so I would rather do it at the end.

~~~
fsloth
Boy, are we diverging :)

From my experience TDD is kinda newspeak in the sense that it does not help at
least in the first stages of design. From what I've managed to gleam as
valuable way of working is test driven _implementation_. I.e. when
implementing something akin to a simple datastructure I can test the interface
functions as I write them which verifies the interface is not silly and that
it works.

Another place where implementing tests concurrently brings value is using the
tests as a form of documentation.

I would not call TDD a design methodology beyond the fact that usually
implementing interfaces (and verifying it works) is good practice while
speccing it.

Tests bring lots of value to a codebase beyond the fact that it sounds
impressive to have a 95% coverage. From what I understand of the pathologies
of software development having the TDD tagged as methodology is to allow the
programmers implement tests in peace, politically shielded from the more gung
ho elements of the stakeholderkin.

Summary: IMO if production code has no tests something is wrong. But I would
say the most value tests bring is in verifying the algebra of the interface,
protecting against breaking commits and documenting the inteded usage through
examples. I would not say _writing unit tests_ is a particularly powerfull
design methodology but playing with code is, and calling what the developer is
doing as 'TDD' gives the developer the mental piece to do exactly this.

~~~
collyw
Most of the advantages you list are about testing, not testing before coding,
which is what I was curious about.

------
varchar
I have no doubt that the author has experienced these issues and also agree
with him on some points. However here's where the error lies - drawing
conclusion from your personal experience and extrapolating it to the entire
sector worth perhaps 100 billion dollars and predicting it's impending doom.
That's just not how reality works. There will be dozens if not hundreds of
examples contrary to your experience.

There may be declines, there will changes, restructuring, recalibration,
pains, growth etc. Life and business will go on albeit with changes. A broad
vision always helps keeping things in perspective in drawing such conclusions.

------
ajinkyakale
Not this again! The fact that the article shows only the under developed
images (like the over crowded vehicle and the snake charmer) makes me sad.
These articles and the tv shows have completely wrong images of india in their
mind. You can argue why is it a big deal, but when you see the typecast
running in all the articles these days it hurts mostly because it so far from
the reality. I have not seen a snake charmer my entire life after staying in
the country for 25 years! The problems he mentions might be true I dont have
any experience but I bet its common and holds true for the entire outsourcing
business.

------
webtopaz
I have worked in outsourced projects for a big company in the past and our
team got the work done. I have since then started my own company and have been
working for US customers from India. My current customer is a startup from
Philly for which I have been working for about 3.5 years. So, No. Indian
outsourcing is not doomed. There are thousands of small companies like mine
making customers happy at an affordable price.

And what's with the pictures of a snake charmer and a crowded jeep?

------
rikacomet
Being an Indian, I agree with that. Sometimes, when asked "how do you justify
the X salary you are demanding" I find very few who have any answers (except
the occasional: 'How he/she belongs to IIT' as if being an IITian gives you
the right to earn without work)

------
raverbashing
From my (not so big) experience:

Best things to outsource are those with well defined requirements, with not
many refinements to be done (or that can be done internally)

The bandwidth is reduced, so it's not like the person is next to you. But with
good requirements (and an agile development) this can work

------
kamaal
Some parts of this post are true, some are straight wrong. To let you know I
worked for a Major Indian IT services firm for over 5 years.

>>with no innovation and nothing to offer other than questionable rate
savings.

Most of the big IT services firms have very elaborate and very active
community of people who innovate all the time. In fact if you are working with
any moderately big outsourcing firm, they will likely have training programs
for nearly all trending technologies out there. There are local in-company LUG
groups, all kinds of technology interests groups, even labs who work on core
CS research. You just don't hear about them, because unlike the product folks
they don't blog every second minute about how great they are. You will be
surprised by the sheer depth and diverse range of areas people are working in
these companies.

>>Remember all those schools that promised to turn anyone with or without ...

This has been happening in India from probably 1980's or may be even since the
independence. That doesn't change anything. India is a place where people will
do anything, and I actually mean _anything_ for opportunities. This might look
strange to a lot of people. But there are many of us, for whom merely getting
a foot in the door means bailing out of a few generations of misery. There
fore people will do anything to first get some education, once done anything
for a job. Once in a job anything to get a good life. Its not odd, for people
to work crazy hours their all life just to get a decent life for themselves
and their kids. People in the west may call lack of sleep as spoiling health
or whatever, here its almost a virtue.

>>With about 12 hours difference with Pacific Time there is simply no
reasonable time for you to talk to your team in India. When they are finishing
their work day you are not even ready to start, and when you are ready to
leave office they are not anywhere to be found.

In early part of my career, I've slept in the office dorm for days in stretch
only because I had take status calls from UK/US. I know innumerable amount of
people who still do. Any company with a reasonable brand, and a good vein of
professionalism will do. It all depends on whom you are doing business with.

>>Employees in India are extremely difficult to motivate. You’ll notice that
weeks and months go by with very little progress being made. Indian
outsourcing employees seem to have a natural talent for working hard while
producing little.

If anything this is probably the most wrong statement in the entire blog post.
In IT services companies you will run into projects which are basically
'mission impossible'. For almost negligible budgets, you will be pushing 18 hr
work days to achieve almost the impossible. Most of the them succeed, a few
fail. There are instances where people will be up all the night because some
UAT needs to be done, or because a regression testing needs to be finished.
Again continue to work the very next day to fix a few bugs and get stuff
shipped only to be asked to be available that same night for a status check
call, I've seen people do this kind of stuff for months. I've seen people burn
out, get kidney stones, develop blood pressure related ailments, lose weight
drastically- All kinds of crap because over the past year they just have been
working like machines. Amidst all this some projects do fail, but its rarely
because people are lazy.

~~~
jeswin
I'll try to reply cautiously, but I don't think your picture of innovation is
accurate. To start with, the big-5 IT majors find it very difficult to attract
talent. Even back when I was in college ('98-), the IT majors were a fallback
option for most people. In fact, the best students didn't even bother applying
there. This has only gotten worse now, from what I hear.

It is also my opinion that there isn't a lot of innovation happening in these
places. You could see some of the work being published (in their blogs) but
the quality of work (or innovation) is nothing to write home about. Many of
them are simply rehashed whitepapers on topics widely discussed on the
internet.

Having said that, I don't think Indian IT is in any sort of danger, in fact
things are getting better. Interesting work is happening, just not in large IT
companies. There are way more talented, passionate, excited tech folks here
than at any time before.

~~~
kamaal
>>In fact, the best students didn't even bother applying there. This has only
gotten worse now, from what I hear.

Largely because these companies pay less, not because quality of work in
product companies is higher.

I worked at a onsite location for a company which is one of the largest
internet companies. We were all hired to work there after elaborate
interviews. And we used to be repeatedly told they hire only the best, from
the best universities and all that. Yet when we worked together as a team,
most of these kids hired from IIT's who really believed they were some special
snow flakes and all they really got to work on was HTML and some small time
shell scripts. These kids had never seen what it meant work on a P1 bug after
clocking full nighter, never had any exposure command line kung fu, they
didn't know what it meant to having spend a full weekend writing a 2K line
perl script because someone at the top wanted a prototype/reporting
application done by Monday, heck for all the algorithm geniuses they were
considered they could barely do any genuine work of significance to the real
world. All they were really interested is in learning the next set of
interview questions that were in trend so they could get some one in their
alumni have an interview arranged for their next jobs.

The irony is we did bulk of the really algorithmic work there was. We set up a
good deal of hadoop infrastructure and platform, we wrote a great deal of what
were the complex workflows. And got a lot of systems and applications set up.
Yet we were thought of as some kind of lesser children.

I'd really judge the best students/best professionals by the work they do, not
the college they belong to, or their degree or their college network.

Show me what work you've done. Everything else is just hot air.

~~~
abhi_kr
I'm preparing for my campus placements and I feel so frustrated by having to
solve algorithmic puzzles because that's all that companies ask in interviews,
everything else is secondary. I have so much interest in OS and networks but
so few companies are there that offer challenging or exciting jobs in these
fields in India. Most of the work is testing and validation and all the design
and architecture work is done in the US division of the companies. This leaves
students with no other option but to study what is required for the interviews
and get trapped in the eternal interview-study-promotion-interview loop. The
lucky ones go to US.

------
goombastic
Look at the images on that article. Has this guy been to India? Snake
charmers? Simpleton logic as well.

------
known
Cloud services will destroy/dilute their revenues.

~~~
Sven7
plus automation

------
jrochkind1
I get a login screen, not an article, from this link.

------
lukasm
There are also cultural problems. Person X won't talk to person Y because
he/she is from different caste.

~~~
okpatil
This statement is plain wrong. People you are referring to are highly educated
professionals.

~~~
WalterSear
I've actually witnessed what the parent refers to, here in silicon valley.

------
DevBattles
It also explains that the best programmers are, American or
Indian([http://www.devbattles.com/en/sand/post-504-](http://www.devbattles.com/en/sand/post-504-))

~~~
vixen99
So all you non-Americans and non-Indians - now you know!

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dksidana
Outsourcing experience will depend on selection process and outsourcing rate.
Can author confirm that they did good job on both of that ?

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hluska
The second paragraph contains the sentence:

"This is simply an opinion I have formed based on 15+ years of experience with
various providers."

Your question smacks of 'show me the proof-ism'. Why does this article make
you uncomfortable?

