
EU Agrees to Boost Military Cooperation but Doubts Remain - folli
https://www.wsj.com/articles/eu-to-sign-new-defense-pact-in-bid-to-combine-capabilities-and-budgets-1510569654
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jknz
I would love to see a European Union where other EU countries have a say in
the main election of each country. Say, all EU countries can vote for the
chancellor election in Germany and these votes weight 5% of the final results,
while the German votes weight 95%. Same for the French presidential election,
other EU countries could vote for a weight of 5%, and 95% of the weight is
given the French votes.

This could happen slowly, countries joining one by one the system: when a
country joins, it offers 5% of its main election(s) to other EU countries, and
in exchange it can vote for other EU countries main elections.

This would oblige national politicians to address the concerns of European
citizens outside of their country. This would be very welcome since the
choices of national politicians do not just affect the lives of the nationals,
but if affects the lives of other Europeans too. As the national economies are
all strongly intertwined and the economic choices of one EU country very
affects others, two solutions come to mind: (a) a strong federal government
like in the US, where the decisions of state politicians barely affect other
states; (b) to keep the current system where national politicians can make
choices that affect all Europeans, but let all Europeans have a say in their
election.

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jopsen
Forget it.

It would be an administrative nightmare. You would have to vote 28 / 4 times
per year!!!

It would have little effect, but MASSIVE push back.

These years the EU needs to lay low, and focus on doing good without drawing
more people to support the extreme right-wing/neo-nazis.

This is not the time for bold moves in western Europe; this could back-fire.
There are some wiggle room for playing hard ball in eastern Europe, like
getting Romanian prisons into ECHR compliance.

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ivan_gammel
Technically, election cycles may be aligned or foreign vote may be indirect -
there are ways to improve voter experience. But I would agree: public opinion
will be strongly against it, because these 5% of votes would for example play
definitive role in last German election.

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atmosx
This comes mostly to fill up the void that UK will leave in the E.U. by
exiting and ofc is not going to fly.

As the article states, the level of integration required for these kind of
things is nowhere to be found.

The European Union is at crossroads: Either integrates and disintegrates.
Half-measures like the ones proposed by the new French PM are not going to
work. Not to mention that is nearly impossible for him to achieve anything
substantial against Berlin.

It's like an ancient Greek tragedy. Everybody tries to make _his best_ , while
every action of every key-player leads inevitably to the worst possible
outcome.

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craigsmansion
> This comes mostly to fill up the void that UK will leave in the E.U. by
> exiting and ofc is not going to fly.

Alternatively, this has been in the making for a long time, but always has
been kept back by the UK to support their relevance inside of the EU. Why do
you state that it "[of course] is not going to fly"? Can you refer to some
similar situations that provide precedent for your prediction?

> The European Union is at crossroads

Why? And why at this particular point in time? Is it because the UK is
leaving, or are there any other reasons the EU cannot maintain their current
course?

> Not to mention that is nearly impossible for him to achieve anything
> substantial against Berlin.

How so? Is the EU colluding with Germany to the detriment of the other member
states? Can you provide any evidence of this?

> Everybody tries to make his best, while every action of every key-player
> leads inevitably to the worst possible outcome.

Do you mean for this particular endeavour or their policies in general?
Because in general the results of the EU up to this point seem far from the
worst possible outcome. If you mean this particular policy, why do you believe
it will lead to the worst possible outcome in this specific instance?

~~~
msabalau
The notion that a parallel from of coordination between underfunded militarys
either materially threatened British relevance in the EU in the past or acts
in any substantial way to replace it's military might in the event the EU
needed to act outside of NATO in the future is extremely dubious.

However minimal this effort is, it is certainly wise given Brexit, increasing
influence of isolationists and nationalists in the US, and Russia's appetite
for power projection.

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localcdn
[https://archive.fo/FbiB8](https://archive.fo/FbiB8)

~~~
Devagamster
Youre a legend

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Feniks
With reason. The military isn't something us Euros like to spend money on, the
US has been whining about European NATO commitments since day 1.

Healthcare, housing, education, infrastructure. Those are the things I take
pride in. Not a new airforce jet.

~~~
colemannugent
Nobody takes pride in a new jet save the manufacturers and the people who fly
it.

People do take pride in the security and strength a jet provides in times of
crisis.

You can't achieve any of the things you take pride in without the ability to
defend yourself. In your case, you have America do it for you. What would
happen if America didn't spend more than Switzerland's entire GDP on defense?

~~~
ivan_gammel
How exactly American military spending in Iraq or Pacific makes Europe more
safe? Wasn't it that trillion USD spent to replace Saddam with a puppet state
that pave the way for ISIS, which now attacks European cities?

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rayiner
The Iraq and Afghanistan wars were a disaster. But without American military
protection during the Cold War, there are a lot of Europeans that'd be
speaking Russian now.

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ivan_gammel
Questionable. USSR had much more conventional military power and strategic
balance was defined by presence of nuclear weapons at both sides. But it's not
that expensive and it's not only US who had them in NATO or in Europe. US
saved Europe from Soviet invasion in 1940-1950s, but later it's not so clear,
whether role of USA was decisive.

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pjc50
Note that this is some pretty lukewarm collaboration, and not the "EU army"
that the usual suspects will try to paint it as.

The real question is how this relates to NATO; I suspect that sensible people
have realised that perhaps they can no longer rely on the US, UK, or for that
matter Turkey.

Undoubtedly there's some sort of arms industry boondoggling going on too.
There always is.

~~~
3pt14159
How is the UK no longer reliable? Even the US is probably reliable for Nato
defence outside of Cyber where war looks more like espionage.

The world does need the EU to step up it's leadership, but we're not at a
breaking point yet.

I also think that a coalition of France, Canada, and the UK could act as a
decision making block in light of the political situation in America right
now. The UK is still one of the most powerful atomic weapons armed countries
and has good relations with many countries around the world, France is the
most powerful / stable EU country with good relations with many countries
around the world, and Canada could act as a good representative for North
America and has enough soft power and reputation to pull together non-aligned
countries and other members of the global liberal order.

~~~
pjc50
> coalition of France, Canada, and the UK could act as a decision making bloc

The UK can't decide its way out of a paper bag at the moment. See other
comment; while the permanent state yet functions, the political leadership is
a mess and we're still discussing whether it's a good idea to collapse our
major export industries or not.

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chiaro
Cooperative military operations will be great for shoring up European unity
and validating more integration in due course. The UK being out of the picture
should help (as does the existential threat that Brexit has painted) but the
system of half-measures too well suits Germany to make it easy. This has all
been true with a fiscal union too.

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sverige
The title is misleading. It's a renewed attempt to begin achieving more
cooperation, small steps, not integration.

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absrnd
Paywall

~~~
YouAreGreat
WSJ seems to be privileged in that regard. Others get flagged down fast, WSJ
stays up.

