
What Makes a Hit - riskarb
https://www8.gsb.columbia.edu/articles/projects/what-makes-a-hit/
======
sametmax
"Popular success really is more art than science"

Given that the last decade of hits can be hugely attributed to only 2 people
in the industry, I have a hard time buying this one.

Max Martin
([https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Martin](https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Martin))
famously manufactured hits for Britney Spears, Taylor Swift, Justin Bieber,
Katy Perry, Ariana Grande, Justin Timberlake, Maroon 5, Pink, Avril Lavigne,
Christina Aguilera, Kesha and The Backstreet Boys. Between 1999 and 2016
alone, he was responsible for 21 hits. That's more than one a year without any
pause.

Lukasz Gottwald
([https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Luke](https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Luke))
did the rest

So unless karma made them really lucky, there is some kind of formula, and
they figured it out.

Talent alone can't account for this, as they are, all in all, more successfull
than the Beatles or Michael Jackson.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVME_l4IwII](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVME_l4IwII)

~~~
gt2
Couldn't those guys' track of success be due to cronyism in the music
industry?

Their songs are formulaic. I'm sure many of these 2 guys' songs are played in
this video that cycles through a long list of hit songs which have the same
progression (transposed into the same key so the similarities can more easily
be noticed)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOlDewpCfZQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOlDewpCfZQ)

So perhaps anyone can write the songs, but not everyone has access to the pop
stars (or access to these 2 guys).

I'm not an expert song writer myself, but I am a musician and lover of music.
Based on the fact that there's awesome music noone's ever heard of or that
doesn't get as much play as some lesser quality music, I have to echo the
common sentiment that the music industry is a fashion show/popularity contest
with gatekeepers (still). Not saying it's not all a sham, I think the
difference that comes from the human performing is huge, and I love to see and
hear that.

~~~
tabtab
I have to admit I find many of those Martin & Gottwald tunes "catchy" for
whatever reason. Cronyism alone can't create catchiness. Hard to argue with
success. Bring on the cheese! Note that many tunes which use the common pop
chord progressions also fail.

~~~
soundwave106
In my opinion the "big pop guys" you mention are:

A) Fantastic producers -- the production from these guys is phenomenal, and
IMHO this is what really "makes the song".

B) Great at writing to a formula. The tunes are "catchy" but I cannot think of
anything that would be considered really innovative musically.

There's no sin in that necessarily... it certainly takes talent to "know what
works" and "know what doesn't"... and for the type of pop music they do
(largely teen pop and other pop formulas), formula is fine.

I will say that pop producers like these guys tend to be really solid in the
groove / rhythm department, in particular.

C) Great at artistic collaboration... big pop outfits now write in large
groups. Knowing the way many musicians are, that's an accomplishment in
itself. :) This probably contributes to the "solid song that isn't innovative"
aspect... all the left-fieldisms of an artist are probably smoothed out. But
again, this pop.

Overall the music product is a professional creation, designed for a market
that always was and always will be half song-and-dance youth fashion show as
one of the posters alluded to. :) Not a music style I care for personally.

But a popular one, and it takes something to do it as well as these guys do.

~~~
trash_panda
I agree with your point about the producers being talented and most times the
driving force behind these hits.

What really isn't that clear with these songs, and I believe that's why so
many people dislike them (altough they agree they sound catchy) is because the
performer of the song isn't necesarilly the creative force behind the song; as
it was proven with the video of how the song "Middle" came to be. The girl
that sings the song actually played little part in the creative process, and
is part of the song because of her voice and probably looks.

A good comparison could be with Hollywood movies. No one can argue that they
are extremely produced and market focused; so, when you hear a song by Katy
Perry or by <replace_with_trendy_name> is the performer a good actor or a good
director, or both?

~~~
vk23
I never understood why people care how many people are part of the creation of
music. The overall product should be better if every part of it (writing,
producing, perfoming, ...) is executed by an expert in the field and not by a
single person.

------
maroonblazer
While the recipe isn't too surprising to anyone who has grown up with popular
music I love how the authors brought this paper to life online.

Even better that they provide the source:
[https://github.com/colinmorris/atypicality](https://github.com/colinmorris/atypicality)

~~~
wpietri
Yeah, the presentation here is just fantastic. I love the combination of essay
and dynamic illustration. It's the kind of thing that might be done as a
video, but giving the user the control over the flow of time makes it vastly
superior for me. I'm totally stealing this approach.

------
__david__
Off topic, but while digging through the hits explorer at the end, I noticed a
steep dropoff in the number of songs I knew. I expected it, of course, but it
was much sooner than I expected. I could hear nearly every song in my head
from my middle school years, and the first half of high school. But my junior
and senior years there's a whole lot of songs that I don't immediately
recognize. The fall off is fairly steep and continues to the present.

I think what happened is that midway through high school I started liking
specific genres and diving deeper into those rather than just listening to the
radio, because my music consumption only increased during that time.

------
flabbergast
> What Makes a Hit

1\. find a hit from the past you really enjoy

2\. copy 90% of that song in terms of sound, structure, base melody etc..

3\. just change a little of most parts so it doesn't sound like a straight
copy

4\. have a smart producer who can do this

5\. have a great mastering studio to let it sound big

6\. use the right channels for promotion (publishing, (radio)dj's, television,
social media, etc)

7\. have heaps of luck, right timing etc..

Most people in this world have no clue at all that this is what actually makes
a hit. It's very rare to see a 'Hit' to come out of nowhere, although it does
happen. It's an illusion that a talented musician can achieve this on his own
without insane amounts of luck.

~~~
trash_panda
What goes behind the process of creating a hit is something that fascinates
me, but, something I never had the time to really research.

Also, I've always been kinda bipolar on this subject; sometimes I'm 100%
convinced that most popular hit songs are fabricated and sometimes I want to
believe that there is real talent and creativity behind them; not formulas.

I find the following to be true most of the time for hit songs:

\- The singer (male or female) is young, and most of the time good looking.

\- The first time you listen to the song you hate it, but after they play it
multiple times on the radio you start to like it.

\- At a given time, you can see the radio/popular mediums pump up a given
singer. For example, I noticed a rise in Cardi B songs, previously it was
Camila Cabello. This makes me think there is actually a force pulling the
strings.

\- A lot of time they are one hit wonders, new "artists" appear and dissapear
all the time.

\- They usually sing about current hot topics: feminism, be yourself, love
thyself, don't worry if you're fat, let's enjoy life. And usually with very
bland messages to appeal the masses.

\- The music: of course the beats are familiar and following a known structure
that arouses emotions.

To my point, a friend once shared with me the following "parody"
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBDNvlvR8vA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBDNvlvR8vA)
which expresses better what I'm trying to say.

Don't get me wrong, I love music. I love listening to all types of music, from
Merzbow to the #1 hit they're playing on the radio.

But as a geek, I love to also analyze the pop music phenomenon. I'm not really
familiar with the process behind them, and would love if someone who knows
could share it! I mean the process behind actual hit pop songs: Post Malone,
Katy Perry, Ariana Grande, Drake, Cardi B, Dua Lipa, etc.

\- Do they write their songs? How much they get censored?

\- Are they good singers? I know some of them are really talented.

\- How to they rise to fame so quickly? Casting? Personal contacts?

\- Do they really have a say on the structure of their songs and the music
behind them?

These are some of the things that don't let me sleep at night.

~~~
huntertwo
I think it’s a little bit more complicated (and perhaps more “authentic” too)
than you’re making it out to be. Labels definitely have strong influence in
what gets played on the radio, but in your Cardi B example, Bodak Yellow was
extremely popular on SoundCloud before it got any radio plays.

For your other questions, you can see in the credits of a song how many people
are involved in radio hits. Labels invest money in creating hits so they can
make money. The involvement and talent of artists varies from label to label
and artist to artist but it’s generally not the organic process you seem to be
hopeful about. At the end of the day, these artists have to perform not only
in the studio but while touring, so they can’t be talentless hacks since some
talent is required to be a profitable artist.

~~~
Gargoyle
I'm convinced Bodak Yellow was the result of a bet to see just how bad a
"talent" producers could make a star on the basis of one good song.

~~~
maldusiecle
Then I guess they took the test too far, because she's had two #1s and several
very successful features.

------
GrumpyNl
As the say in the composer world, we rather have good plagiarism then bad
composing. ( freely translated from dutch, beter goed gepikt dan slecht
gecomponeerd)

~~~
otreblatercero
As the say in the composer world, we rather have good plagiarism THAN bad
composing.

~~~
GrumpyNl
Thnx, but it is asTHEY say ;)

