
AppGratis pulled from the App Store. Here’s the full story - kevingibbon
http://appgratis.com/blog/2013/04/09/appgratis-pulled-from-the-app-store-heres-the-full-story/
======
credo
Detailed post, but it doesn't seem to address two things.

1\. The WSJ report noted that Apple was concerned that " AppGratis was pushing
a business model that appeared to favor developers with the financial means to
pay for exposure." Simon hasn't addressed this point. Do they make paid
recommendations ?

If they do make app-recommendations based on payments, it makes a lot of sense
for Apple to ban them. As an iOS (and Android) developer, I personally think
that paid-recommendations are bad for the ecosystem (though I'm sure that some
giant shops paying for recommendations may disagree). At the least, I think
users of AppGratis should be told if the recommendations are "paid for".

2\. Simon's discussion of rule 5.6 doesn't really address the problem. Rule
5.6 says "Apps cannot use Push Notifications to send advertising, promotions,
or direct marketing of any kind."

Simon counters by saying that they only send one notification per day and that
users opt-in. However, neither claim refutes the fact that they''re violating
rule 5.6. All iOS push-notifications are opt-in anyway. Rule 5.6 says 'no
advertisement , no promotions,.... no direct marketing'. It doesn't make
exceptions for apps that only send one notification per day. Now Simon could
argue that Rule 5.6 is bad for the user and that push-notification-
advertisements/promotions are good. That may be a debatable point. However, it
is clear that his claims do nothing to counter the fact that AppGratis
violates Rule 5.6 (as it is written)

~~~
espadagroup
Pay for exposure already exists within the app store. Large companies pay
around $10-$20K a day depending on the category on crap ad networks (won't
name them) that incentivize the users to download the companies app in order
to "get to the next level" or something like that. The downloads are
incredibly cheap and you get thousands and thousands of them. The app store
ranking is almost entirely based on download velocity, so your ranking goes
up. Once you get in the top 12ish the organic downloads start pouring in just
from being near the top. The value per user of those organic users is so high
that it more than off sets the cost for the crap/incentivized downloads.
Almost everyone who can do this, does this.

~~~
spontaneus
Facebook just recently started doing this as well. You can now pay to get your
app promoted in people's news feed.

~~~
kevingibbon
Completely different to AppGratis. Facebook allows you to target (based on
gender, location, likes, workplace) and advertise your app. Users have no
incentive to DL your app and actually have a need for your product.

I've had a lot of success on FB mobile install ads.

~~~
hboon
Mind if I drop you an email regarding FB mobile install ads? Have been
experimenting with it, but not much success. Want to pick up a few tips.

------
untog
I will save HN the time:

"I can't believe that it's 2013 and people are still basing their entire
company around the App Store with it's murky rules"

"But there's a lot of money to be made there, it's worth it!"

"Apple needs to change their procedures"

They're all true. Basing a business around an app is both risky and
potentially very profitable. Apple should change their practises but have
little incentive to. So, for now, I can just express sympathy- this situation
_sucks_.

~~~
pi18n
I've been recommending Android for a while, and here is another concrete
reason why. Every time one of these stories appears I write the following: I
develop for iPhone and I used to love OS X. The iPhone in entirety and OS X
lately are aimed directly at people who don't know how to use computers even
if it comes at the expense of those who do. Everyone do yourself a favor and
switch to Linux on your computing platforms.

Regarding the OP; I hope the blog post kicks up enough noise that they allow
the app again. Having a large public outcry is the only way to get Apple to do
anything other than sue Samsung in attempt to prevent them from innovating
faster.

~~~
rimantas

      > are aimed directly at people who don't know how to use
      > computers
    

What does it even mean? iPhone and OS X are aimed at people who want to use
their computers, instead of getting CS degree. I've heard that majority of
cars in US are with automatic transmissions and few people know how to drive
"stick". Are there voices suggesting that auto manufacturers are aiming their
products at people who don't know how to drive a car?

~~~
k3n
For the most part, yes, though it depends on your definition of "drive".

If you base your definition of "drive" as "being able to do the most basic of
tasks", then sure, most everyone can drive a car. However, if you're an auto
enthusiast, then to you being able to "drive" takes on a whole new definition;
can you J-turn? How about drift? Can you jumpstart a car with a dead battery
by push-starting? Can you correct your trajectory after losing control? To the
hardcore drivers, these are the types of skills that will prove whether or not
you can really "drive".

~~~
jdechko
Just as with computers, I'd wager most people don't give a crap. Most people
use cars to get from one place to another. Hauling groceries, kids & whatever
else. Most people use computers to check email, Facebook, pay bills, write
letters and play a couple of casual games. In both cases, there are users and
there are enthusiasts.

~~~
belorn
Sure, most people don't care about what the car can or can't do most of the
time. Many new cars do not allow unlicensed people to repair the car. You need
a signed key to do changes to the car, repair it, or adjust the engine.

In the end, most people will get the normal use out of their car. It might be
a bit more expensive and inconvenient, but in the end it will be just
enthusiasts that actually care about being able to install custom parts on the
car, or adjust the engine, or for that matter do repairs themselves.

------
knes
I have zero sympathy for Simon.

AppGratis business model is dirty at its core because basically it's just a
way for developers with cash to splash to have a big burst of downloads to
help them climb the App Store Rank and get "organic download".

An even dumber thing is to bet everything its iOS app when you saw that a far
superior product from one of your competitor was banned from the App Store 4
months ago (App Shopper) . I hope that the App Shoper banned at least made you
think about the possibility that could await AppGratis and took preemptive
measure. But No, instead you build an iPad app...

Now you come crying to the public in hope that a significant public outburst
will make Apple changes his mind and reintegrate AppGratis in the store, I
hope Apple stands firm on its decision.

I'm in no way an Apple fanboy or whatever, from a business point of view it
make no sense. You knew the rules, you got burned and now you cry.

The only sympathy I have is toward AppGratis' 45 employees.

~~~
Livven
Oh come on. It's certainly "dirty" to push your app up the charts with fake
downloads from bots, but this is just advertising. There are much worse things
happening in the world... and in the App Store.

Plus however you might feel about apps like this, the much larger issue is
that Apple is now pulling apps it doesn't like. While it's of course within
their rights, this really shouldn't be just happening like this. With over 400
million or so iOS devices out there, even if it's no monopoly, there should be
some regulation to prevent Apple from screwing around like this. There is a
difference between rejecting apps based on an intransparent process and
pulling apps afterwards because they don't fit with your business model.

~~~
ghshephard
I would agree, that if Apple had somehow managed to obtain a monopolistic
position in mobile, such that people didn't have any real alternative to their
platform, and they had to chose iOS if they wanted a smart phone, that it
might be reasonable to put some restrictions on what they enforced people to
do with their ecosystem. With monopoly market power, comes greater
responsibilities (at least in the United States - but similar legal theories
exist in other countries).

But, I think we can all agree, that Apple does not have a monopoly on the
mobile platform, and, there is in fact at least one reasonable alternative
(Android) - Some might go so far as to suggest that Microsoft's "Windows
Phone" platform, and, for that matter, even Blackberry could be considered
reasonable alternatives to the iOS platform.

And, regardless, 5.6 is pretty clear, ""Apps cannot use Push Notifications to
send advertising, promotions, or direct marketing of any kind."" - If
anything, Apple has simply failed to chase down all of the other apps that are
doing this.

------
metafour
I don't feel like the larger issue was addressed by the CEO in the post and
Apple seems to be avoiding it as well.

According to the AllThingsD article [1],

"But sources close to the company [Apple] say it was more than a little
troubled that AppGratis was pushing a business model that appeared to favor
developers with the financial means to pay for exposure. ... In other words,
app-discovery platforms built on paid recommendations aren’t going to fly with
Apple."

If this is their business model and this is really the issue, then it needs to
be directly addressed by both sides.

[1][http://allthingsd.com/20130408/confirmed-apple-kicks-
appgrat...](http://allthingsd.com/20130408/confirmed-apple-kicks-appgratis-
out-of-the-store-for-being-too-pushy/)

~~~
dave1619
This is an interesting point. Just curious why did the AllThingsD article
cross out: "In other words, app-discovery platforms are fine as long as
they’re not built on paid recommendations." and replace it with "In other
words, app-discovery platforms built on paid recommendations aren’t going to
fly with Apple."

~~~
metafour
My guess is that app-discovery platforms could also not be allowed for reasons
other than "built on paid recommendations"

------
kevingibbon
I hate the idea of AppGratis and I'm glad its been removed.

Who really benefits? The cheap user who will not normally pay for a high
quality app? The app developer who spends $$ to get featured in AppGratis to
then artificially climb the app store ranking?

Dls are one of the worst vanity metrics out there. Devs should focus on
building high quality products, monetize, then acquire quality users in a
sustainable manner.

~~~
od2m
The problem is low quality software and no trials. I can't tell you how many
times I've seen an app, paid $2.99 for it and then found out it was garbage.

~~~
TylerE
Dunno why Apple doesn't do as Google does (at least did when I had a Droid,
pre-Play store), where you had 24 hours to get a refund, presumably with some
sort of fraud trigger if you request too many refunds.

~~~
51Cards
I believe that is down to 15 minutes now.

~~~
paines
10 iirc, which is outrageous. Download a game with enough content which takes
more than 10 minutes just to find out it sucks ass.

------
sanjkris
AppGratis is a pay-to-play platform. About $20k per app. If you watch the
performance of one such AppGratis recommended app, Recorder Pro. The $20k
couldnt even keep them in the top-50 in the biz category for a month. Seems a
waste of dev mkting $$$ imo.

Simon should stop whining and just shift to Android. God knows it needs
curation. The amount of filth in goog play is unbelievable.

~~~
supercoder
There are a few ways you can work with AppGratis, but 20k per app is no where
near close. They're good people to work with and as an advertising medium for
a small shop are _excellent_ value compared to running ads elsewhere.

------
smackfu
This shouldn't have come as that much of a surprise, given that AppShopper was
pulled last December.

[http://thenextweb.com/apple/2012/12/18/apple-removes-
popular...](http://thenextweb.com/apple/2012/12/18/apple-removes-popular-
appshopper-app-from-sale-as-it-falls-afoul-of-app-stores-new-app-promotion-
clause/)

That was also a very useful app that provided real functionality that is
missing from the Apple Store, like price history and price sale alerts. But
Apple doesn't want to make it easier to figure out if you should wait to buy
an app. Good for Apple, bad for users.

------
0x0
I cannot understand why the developer would be surprised, since guideline 2.25
explicitly warns not to create an app whose purpose is to promote others' apps
in a similar fashion to the app store?

Did they not stop to consider this could be a problem for even a second?

~~~
mcintyre1994
According to the article they had contact with Apple over this guideline, and
successfully argued their service was satisfactorily different. They also
claim they had a version accepted between that conversation and this takedown.

------
lessnonymous
Apple needs to fix this process or they WILL lose developers.

I have no problem with simple humans making a decision to list an app in the
App Store according to subjective guidelines. It helps get through a lot of
submissions fast.

But delisting an app should involve a serious review process involving several
levels of people on both sides.

And the depth of the review process should directly correlate to the number of
installs and the time the app has been in the store.

This means that something like AppGratis has at least an assurance that their
45 staff wont be out of a job simply because they got someone in a bad mood.

The whole "no sympathy" bullshit is talk from people with nothing better to do
that shit upon a fellow HN reader.

Imagine if Apple decided to pull Zynga's apps because they use notifications
to promote themselves. There goes a public company up in smoke. The FTC will
surely have something to say about that.

~~~
krschultz
It still blows my mind that you can't pay $X,000-$XX,000 a year to get into a
different line at Apple and get some damn feedback. Companies are investing
hundreds of thousands of dollars a month building iOS apps, and they get the
same treatment as a guy making an alarm clock app one Saturday morning. And I
say that as a former alarm clock app sideproject maker and now professional
app developer.

~~~
DesaiAshu
but this would ruin the closest we have to a perfect competition

------
jacquesm
The really annoying thing is not that these rules are selectively enforced or
that they are bullshit to begin with. The really annoying thing is that you
could have a business that is legit under today's rules and that next week
Apple will update their terms-of-service and that the week after you will be
out of business.

AppGratis was doing a-ok under the 'old' rules and with the 'new' rules under
the previous reviewers. Suddenly they're dead in the water because the 'new'
rules forbid some behaviour (which given the apps popularity serves a need
both on the consumer side and on the business end) which you may actually get
a pass on during a review, and which then gets turned around a few weeks
later.

If you're currently a successful vendor of _any_ app in the appstore you may
want to look carefully at what your 'plan B' is, just in case.

------
JulianMorrison
Do not write for iOS.

If you write for iOS, you are sharecropping. Your income exists at the sole
discretion of an entity that has more power than you and very little incentive
not to misuse it. Further, your income is _more_ , not less at risk, if you
are successful. If you lose, it's your loss. If you win, they take your niche,
call you a plagiarist and kick you out with nothing. And if you are just
puttering along, that's no guarantee you won't be sideswiped by a strategic or
bureaucratic decision you can neither anticipate nor control.

~~~
robryan
People should keep developing for iOS, they should just fully understand that
point and have other markets and a contingency if it does happen.

------
jusben1369
It's all fun and games until an American technology company leverages their
market share and business model to decimate a European technology company. A
couple more of these and the EU will start dragging them in front of
committees with little need to be concerned about a backlash.

------
niklas_a
Regardless of if you are in the "It's Apple's store, they can do what they
want" camp or the "Apple should not be allowed to have this level of control"
camp I think we can all agree that it's not good when one single entity holds
this amount of power over arguably one the world's most important computing
platforms.

Essentially, Apple can block any app they want for any reason they want. Even
if you play by their rules they can change them tomorrow.

While I'm a free market supporter I don't think this is a good situation. It
breaks innovation and makes our smartphones less capable than they should be.
Sad.

~~~
rimantas
Go and innovate on Android, what's the problem. Or make your own platform and
innovate there. Or use HTML5. What makes me sad is constant whining about
stuff like this.

~~~
niklas_a
Well the problem is, as I mentioned in my comment that the owner of the
world's biggest computing platform can shut down a 45 person company without
even giving a hint of warning or telling them what needs to be changed. I
think even you can agree that's not a good thing for us developers, no?

Also, if I build an Android only app I limit my audience. It's like saying I
should create a website only for Firefox in 2005 when IE was dominating.

But to your point, I as a developer will absolutely shy away from the iOS
platform after reading this and I hope others will until they change their
policies.

~~~
MBCook
> Well the problem is, as I mentioned in my comment that the owner of the
> world's biggest computing platform can shut down a 45 person company without
> even giving a hint of warning or telling them what needs to be changed. I
> think even you can agree that's not a good thing for us developers, no?

That's what happens when you put all your eggs in one basket. If you make pre-
prepared food for a grocery store chain and they suddenly decide to stop
selling your products (for whatever reason, justified or capricious), you're
going to be in deep trouble. How many small companies get >75% of their
revenue from just one client?

It's a risk/reward tradeoff to hitch your wagon to someone else; they just got
a large dose of the "risk" portion.

~~~
niklas_a
It's interesting how many people are coming out and saying this. It's like
they want to be that little company that wants to make >75% of their revenue
from one single company.

The point I'm trying to make is that for us developers iOS is one of the most
important computing platforms. All else being equal we would benefit from it
being more open. The more consumers you can reach with your products, the
better.

Now if you want to do mobile apps you have to take huge bet when addressing
50% of the market. I think we should be working on fixing that situation
sooner than later.

------
muzzamike
A former colleague of mine had a series of "cheat" apps which included answers
to popular games on the app store. He started to see his apps pulled on
Sunday. It could be a coincidence, but he had upwards of a million active
users and never had an issue before either. Maybe Apple decided it was time to
crack down on some of the rules they hadn't been enforcing.

~~~
jupitermonta
Sounds more like there's been employee turnover in the AppStore review team
and the new guys are re-interpreting the rules.

------
planetjones
Is it really that simple to raise 12 million dollars of funding - for a
company which can be destroyed pretty much overnight by Apple. Do the
investors not think about this? The world really has gone mad.

~~~
emiliobumachar
It's a risk-benefit analysis. For investors it's a lot more reasonable than
for founders and early employees, as investors usually can diversify. That is,
if you invest in ten startups, nine goes bust, and one gives you 30x returns,
you're net ahead.

------
verygoodyear
Not the way to do it, Apple.

But this is an amazing way to deal with the situation. He's frank, honest and
comes off looking like he's got the situation under control. Marketing types
should bookmark this for future reference - great way to address a situation.

------
sergiotapia
My heart goes out to those 45 employees that suddenly had the carpet pulled
from under them. Double so if they have a family to support.

~~~
uxp
Their company didn't go out of business. He even states so fairly clearly in
the article.

He runs a marketing company. I'm fairly certain marketing can still operate
successfully using "old" technologies like Email, Twitter and the Web.

~~~
sergiotapia
They're not out, but their main cashflow item is now removed. I'm 100% certain
there's some cloud of doubt around the company morale. It can't be an easy
thing to ride out.

------
dave1619
Amazing how drastically things can change in a couple months. This is an
interview with the founder two months ago,
[http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2013/02/18/5-minutes-...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2013/02/18/5-minutes-
with-the-founder-of-global-app-curation-hit-appgratis/)

"We see so much growth that we’ll be past 100 million users in the next two
years. There’s such a huge shift from desktop to mobile that the potential for
growth is unlimited."

------
brador
You say your competitors are a-ok but the appshopper app was pulled months ago
for similar reasons.

------
MatthewPhillips
This is a little confusing to me; if the issue is the push notification why
don't they simple stop doing the push notification? Or is it already too late
for that?

EDIT: The All Things D article sheds more light on what might really be going
on here: [http://allthingsd.com/20130408/confirmed-apple-kicks-
appgrat...](http://allthingsd.com/20130408/confirmed-apple-kicks-appgratis-
out-of-the-store-for-being-too-pushy/)

~~~
kbenson
I believe the issue has less to do with that than with capricious enforcement
of rules, and little in the way of recourse for the victims of such.

If there were a formal review procedure with rules for when an app gets
notified about scheduled future actions (and when those can be superseded when
needed), as well as a procedure for fixing problems before negative actions
(if there is it sure doesn't seem it's followed), then we would see less of
these stories.

------
OoTheNigerian
The lesson here to me is simple. If you do not have an email address, you have
not 'acquired' a user. If they had email addresses, they could have focused on
sending out emails while trying to seek other platforms to develop for.

As for the people offended about AppGratis' business model. Can you explain
the difference between it and Groupon? Or any super bowl ad? It is wrong for
someone to have money to promote their apps?

~~~
querulous
i'm not offended by AppGratis' business model but i am offended by the notion
that Apple are in the wrong for cracking down on paid installs. AppGratis can
do whatever they want but they shouldn't expect Apple's support

~~~
tayome
agreed, it's Tapjoy's story repeating again
[http://www.tuaw.com/2011/04/19/apple-banning-pay-per-
install...](http://www.tuaw.com/2011/04/19/apple-banning-pay-per-install..).

ok, Appgratis was "curating" the apps, and their reviews were quite funny
sometimes, but still, their business model was not "editorial", you need to
pay to get reviewed. And why would you do that? Well...to boost your rankings
within the App Store.

With that developer/advertiser money Appgratis can then do their own paid
promotion to acquire more downloads, then go back with an even bigger claim to
advertisers/developers and resell that inventory. This is basically an
arbitrage model and i can understand why Apple wouldn't like that.

Anyway, they've got $13M to pivot, so they should be fine.

------
DigitalSea
This whole situation highlights another problem, you should never base a
business around a third party API or service. Remember when Twitter changed
their guidelines and API usage rules basically destroying companies that had
built a product based around Twitter only for it to be deemed in violation of
the new rules? This situation should be a warning to others thinking of
putting their eggs in one basket, because if the service you've come to rely
on has the final say in the end for how your product should function and if
that understanding is based on loose interpretation of company rules, you are
at the mercy of that reviewer.

I hope AppGratis sorts this all out, it's a heartbreaking story. I know from
experience what it's like to spend months working on something only for it to
be rejected.

~~~
duncan_bayne
Never? There are many cases of highly successful businesses being based upon a
3rd party API. E.g.: every successful software company that sold CP/M, DOS,
Windows or UNIX software.

Perhaps a better statement would be: understand that there are risks inherent
to building for any given API, study those risks, and mitigate them.

CP/M seems to be dying off? Hope you've started your DOS port already :)

~~~
JonoW
The key difference is that there is no way for Microsoft to revoke an
application from a users pc (pre app store I mean)

~~~
jacquesm
The existing apps were not revoked and still work.

------
dave1619
Here's a link to the AppStore Review guidelines:
[https://developer.apple.com/appstore/resources/approval/guid...](https://developer.apple.com/appstore/resources/approval/guidelines.html)

~~~
smackfu
Only works if you are already a paid iOS dev.

------
willisgerald
From what I understand, AppGratis was pushing apps to top ranks. For Apple
this is probably equivalent to bots behavior. A company that guarantees top
ranks is not welcome in the App Store.

In addition being a user myself i have observed that many times if not all the
time, apps they promote are not disclosed as advertising to their users and in
addition many times are not deals at all when the company is promising one
paid to free apps every day. For example today apps being promoted is Mobli,
which was always free (Right?).

One more thing, they were also claiming "negotiating" those deals with
developers. But here also I noticed that many times they were just taking the
deals from others like Apple free app of the week. Is that wrong? no.... but
they were presenting it in a way that makes a user believe the deal was
brought by them and not by Apple or whoever.

I also never liked how the company is forcing me to tweet before getting a
deal to download.

Probably the company was too "agressive" and this is what Apple did not like.
They are referring to the rules the company violated but in my opinion and
again as a simple ex user observer it looks that the company was very
agressive in their business practices.

------
floozyspeak
Time to pivot, go web mobile, retain user base, launch from there maybe, - but
overall you should of seen this coming, any time you get "tooo" close to app
core apps, especially the app store models no matter how much you "fix" their
problem, you will get pinched.

And the paying 20k for app promotion, or taking rev share on apps sold, that
was just plain stupid given that you provide apple more ammo.

Real question is, how long does Kindertown have?

------
belorn
If your business model is complete and utterly depended on a single third-
party company, one need to be aware of the risk. It should be in every iphone
exclusive company mind that Apple is in complete control, and are the sole
dictator in what business models is allowed to exist on the phone.

Startups should thus do risk analyzes as part of creating a business plan. If
your depended on a single supplier, then it need to be calculated in. If the
supplier ever feels threatened, or has reason to enter your market, then there
is nothing one can do to prevents them from cutting you of. The only option is
to either gamble that it wont happen, or diversify your business to the point
where you are no longer in a fully depended relationship with the supplier.

It should be mentioned that the business model of service providers when they
implement a "walled garden" (Closed platform) is to retain a complete level of
control. If app developers would refuse to develop to walled gardens, then
this kind of problems would not exist.

------
recursive
This is curation in action.

~~~
niklas_a
Yep, sucks to be a developer though. You can spend a year developing an app
only to have it pulled from the store. Of course, the risk is low so you might
try anyway but the situation sucks.

~~~
sanjkris
Heres why you should persevere though: I have 5 ios apps; together, they pay
for my property tax and my mortgage. My house costs $1.1 mln btw. Prop tax in
CA is ~1.25%. I am not deeply wedded to ios btw inspite of my revenue. I moved
my client side code to Android. Took me ~3 weeks. Unlike Simon, I hedge my
(appstore) bets.

------
MWil
Is being listed in the App Store a contract? Does it matter that my app was
good to go at one point but could be pulled at any time if they introduce a
new guideline? How do they justify unilaterally affecting what has to be a
billion dollar industry that relies (or what could amount to legal reliance
for equitable reasons) on them?

~~~
recursive
Who do they need to justify it to? It's apple's app store.

~~~
MWil
Again, you have to justify unilateral changes to a multi-billion dollar
industry. period. it doesn't matter if it's private as opposed to public.

I'm talking of course in a moral, good for business good will sense and not
legal.

------
hnriot
I'm sorry for the soon to be ex employees, but I hate all these App Store
fakers. Good riddance to spammy apps like this.

------
EGreg
Although I do agree that this is nerve wracking, I think the situation will
resolve itself.

The one question I have is ... why did they use push notifications to send a
daily message, when they could have just scheduled them locally? Clearly Apple
notices anomalous traffic for non-transactional notifications, such as one
that's sent once a day to everyone, and that's probably what alerted some
unrelated guys in the app store. I imagine the guy wanted to follow up and
then, unable to reach the CEO, pulled the app.

I would say the company with so many employees should probably have other
people to pick up the slack for the CEO when he is on a plane.

Of course, what do I know. We have a completely different structure, and are
distributed around the world.

~~~
MartinMoi
It's not stated that they used "remote" push notifications, maybe they're
talking about local push notifications.

Also, I guess Apple only tried to reach the CEO because when you summit an iOS
app, you have to give them the information a person to contact in case they
need to. I guess they gave them the CEO information.

~~~
EGreg
I can say it's a good probability that they did ... and that triggered this
problem.

------
zenbowman
Work for a tyrant and you will eventually get screwed over - a good lesson for
developers who target Apple products.

Stallman remains very right on Apple - it is the antithesis of openness and
hacker culture, and the fact that good programmers choose to be Apple serfs is
very disappointing.

For those who say developers have no choice but to target Apple products or
lose a big chunk of revenue - if developers had refused to develop apps for
Apple from the outset, and only targeted open platforms, they wouldn't be in a
dominant position in the first place.

------
dmorre
This German site [1] had an article on the bare cost AppGratis asked the
developers to pay:

In Germany you pay 15.400€ for a slot.

They work on a CPI basis. The CPI rate is 1,1 euro for iPhone and 2.2 for
iPad. They list the amount of downloads that they "generally can achieve in
Germany, Austria and Switzerland"

iPhone : 10,000 DL - iPad : 2,000 DL

[1] [http://www.iphone-ticker.de/15-400e-pro-aktion-wie-
appgratis...](http://www.iphone-ticker.de/15-400e-pro-aktion-wie-appgratis-
die-entwickler-zur-kasse-bat-45949/)

------
UnoriginalGuy
Why, when I CTRL+ their site does the text get smaller and smaller while the
images get larger and larger? I have a 1920x1080 display and don't have super-
human vision...

~~~
manicbovine
Probably because they have -webkit-text-size-adjust:none set in style.css.

------
the_ancient
I have zero sympathy for them

Anyone that basis their entire business on a single platform controlled by a
draconian company like Apple should not be surprised when things like this
happen

~~~
hcarvalhoalves
Specially since they are being a little shady, creating their app store inside
the App Store. Apple can interpret their TOS however way they want and ban
their app at any time.

------
danbmil99
A company like Apple can be lordly and draconian in their practices, but it
would still pay a dividend for them to be consistent, fair, and to have a
reasonable review and communication process that distinguishes between some
kid writing malware and a mature company with a serious investment in iOS and
a history of asking questions and getting approval for their product as it
develops.

------
homosaur
They pulled AppShopper, now they pull AppGratis. This is stupid. Apple's store
sucks. You can't discover anything unless it comes out that week and has the
hype of Apple's week one marketing behind it unless someone you follow on
Twitter starts pimping it.

------
piyush_soni
I'm probably going to get like a hundred downvotes for this, but don't develop
for Apple. There rules are not clear, and they ban apps based on their whim.
Especially if you are famous and a threat to their current or future apps.

------
lnanek2
Hmm, even just reading his blog post I think his daily push message promoting
a deal on another app violates the guidelines - and that's his side of the
story which should be the most favorable, heh.

------
scottcanoni
As much as I hope this to be true, it isn't:

"[Apple] risks a massive walk-out of developers and investors in mobile
companies from the Apple eco system"

------
haldujai
Business 101: Don't be a one client company.

------
sneak
I will defer to Bill Hicks:

<http://youtu.be/gDW_Hj2K0wo>

