
Ask HN: What is your method for up/down votes? - classicsnoot
I upvote any article i read fully and i upvote comments i believe to be worthy of prominence.<p>What is your method?
======
codegeek
I have to admit I am a little careless with upvoting stories (I upvote a lot
of stories). I upvote articles that seem to fit HN rules, generates curiosity
for the audience, something critical to know (i get a lot of news from HN like
sites being hacked etc), encourage a decent Show HN etc.

But I upvote comments selectively. I do this to try and ensure that my vote
helps to get really good quality comments on top of the page. Of course,
sometimes controversial comments get a lot of upvotes. I also upvote helpful
comments including when someone adds a clickable link to a Show HN in comments
etc. If I learn something new with a comment, I upvote it. I sometimes upvote
comments that have been downvoted incorrectly.

I seldom downvote but when I do, those comments are one or more of these:

1) Blatant hate speech, personal attacks, racist remarks, sexist remarks etc.
For these type of comments, I just downvote with no comments.

2) Irrelevant comment that has nothing to do with the topic being discussed.
Comment that adds no value really and distracts from the main topic. For
example, someone commenting like "NSA is coming for you" in a topic about
"privacy" etc. Again, I don't add any comments for the downvote for these.

3) Factually incorrect information added as a comment. Sometimes, the
commenter might not even know that they are providing false information while
sometimes they don't care. In either case, I downvote those comments not
because I am trying to prove them wrong but because incorrect information
should be marked as such. But be careful with this. I said "factually
incorrect" and not "opinionated". For these though, I always try to add a
comment with an explanation.

4) Criticism that is not constructive. It is easy to say "you are so wrong" or
"Why do we need another site builder" etc but it takes more to write a comment
explaining how somone could have done something better.

It is tempting to hit the downvote arrow for things that you "disagree" with
and I am sure most of us have been guilty of this (I have been) but we should
watch out for this temptation.

------
3rd3
I downvote comments that strike me low-effort, trolling or as part of the "HN
echo chamber", and I upvote things that seem to give rise to interesting
discussions, sometimes even regardless of their quality (which might
contradict my downvoting principles).

Kind of related: Did HN happen to change the way the site responds to votes
recently? It seems that it was possible to see the effect of a vote
immediately by reloading the page up until a couple of weeks ago. Either they
have changed something (a new CDN, score blurring as on reddit), or I have
somehow lost my comment voting powers. Perhaps it’s because my avgage score
has dropped below 1 lately?

~~~
0942v8653
If your average dropped below 1, I'm sure that would do it.

------
oskarth
I downvote (and sometimes flag) mean comments. In my opinion they are toxic to
the community and should not be tolerated. Other than that I upvote comments
and stories that are thoughtful and/or contribute something new to the
discussion.

~~~
classicsnoot
respectfully, i feel that this is a bit heavy handed. i take issue with the
use of 'mean'. it is mean to say someone's breath smells of poo, but that does
not make it inaccurate or unnecessary. maybe i am assuming too much from your
statement about your intent. i come from a crowd where there was a fair amount
of hazing, razzing, and general meanness applied to the newer members. this
served to discourage folks who did not want to take the time to learn the way
of things.

TBC, i only take issue with you flagging a mean comment. i believe the
downvote is the best option if you are opposed to mean comments.

...please dont flag me bro

~~~
brudgers
Many other parts of the internet do more to encourage or tolerate or ignore
meanness. That's what makes them other parts of the internet and not HN.

The degree to which StackOverflow has more actively discouraged these things
and succeeded to a greater extent than HN is one of the reasons for its
success.

------
scrollaway
I find I am having a much easier time upvoting people I disagree with here
than I do on Reddit. So I systematically do so if I believe the person has a
worthy point.

As for articles, I upvote anything that I think has had an impact on me,
however minor. Usually it's articles that actually made me think for a few
minutes, but sometimes it's also serious lessons I learn.

------
Kiro
Regarding downvoting when disagreeing here's what pg said a few years ago:

"I think it's ok to use the up and down arrows to express agreement. Obviously
the uparrows aren't only for applauding politeness, so it seems reasonable
that the downarrows aren't only for booing rudeness."

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171)

~~~
organsnyder
I think that's a terrible approach. There are plenty of times when the most
popular opinion isn't necessarily correct. Downvotes are a way to suppress
discussion—they should only be used in obvious cases of factual errors, logic
fallacies, mean spirit, etc. The proper response to disagreement is a follow-
up comment.

The problem is that up/downvoting is used by the software to determine how
prominently the comment should be shown—even, in extreme cases, hiding it
completely. If the metric was simply displayed, with no further action taken,
then I might agree with pg's statement.

Funnily enough, I found myself instinctively hunting for a downvote button
(even though I don't have downvote powers yet) to mark my disagreement with
pg's assertion. That behavior seems to be deeply embedded in many of us, even
if we intellectually hold to the opposing view.

~~~
Gracana
It's not a great approach but it's probably better to acknowledge that people
will use it that way than to make a unenforceable policy against it and have
people whine about HN-iquette when they get downvoted.

------
ISL
I upvote when something is important, insightful, or interesting. Thought-out
comments or ones that add real value to a discussion get one too.

Downvotes are carefully considered. Probably less than one a week. I reserve
them only for comments that are either actively hostile to the community or
demonstrably false. Even then, I think about it two or three times before
clicking.

------
samsheen
I try and spend 20-30 minutes everyday going through the "new" tab and up-
voting the new submissions I find interesting (think of it like volunteer
work). Somehow I tend to up vote Ask HNs more often than posts that are links
to website.

~~~
classicsnoot
that behavior is definitely analogous to volunteer work in one's local
community. i used to spend a lot of time on Imgur; now i just spend my time in
User Submitted.

------
eterm
I upvote articles which interest me and I think I might want to read later,
because they appear in "saved stories".

I also upvote stories I think that would interest others.

I rarely upvote or downvote comments.

~~~
classicsnoot
i have just started using Pocket app in an effort to gather all of the things
i do not have time to read. i have only been using it for a few days, so i am
not sure if it is worthwhile or not.

------
acheron
I don't upvote a lot of articles, but with especially good ones I usually
remember to. I really don't read a lot of the articles, and always after
reading the HN comments -- I'm not going to click through to an article with
no summary other than an often-abstruse headline until I know what it's
actually about. (Slashdot > HN here, since Slashdot at least had article
summaries, even if they were often biased. [1]) If I actually go read the
article and like it I usually remember to upvote it I think.

I flag articles every so often, usually political rants and such. As far as I
am concerned, the purpose of an article being posted to HN is so an
interesting discussion can follow it: if the article is not going to generate
a worthwhile discussion (which political articles don't) then there's no
reason for it to be on the site.

For comments, mostly I upvote grey comments that I don't think deserved
downvotes. Rarely do I upvote comments that are already at the top of the
discussion -- they don't need more help. I upvote other comments too if I like
them, I suppose.

I probably do use downvoting as just a "disagree" button too much though. But
I figure posting an arguing reply just adds more noise to the discussion; it's
better to just downvote and move on.

[1] I like how I refer to Slashdot in the past tense here.

------
jeffreyrogers
I rarely upvote stories, unless they were either very interesting, or were
interesting but didn't seem to have enough votes yet.

I upvote comments when they raise an interesting point that I hadn't though of
before (even if I disagree) in an intelligent way. I rarely upvote just
because I agree with something, and I never downvote out of disagreement.

I only downvote when the poster clearly has no idea what they are talking
about it. (Or is just being pedantic and critical to no apparent benefit).

------
skrebbel
I vote purely emotionally. If a comment makes me feel something, I click the
appropriate button.

------
PeterWhittaker
I never downvote. I don't believe in it. I believe downvoting promotes echo
chambers and group think. Should there be an alternative? Perhaps, and it
would be "flag with a reason", in other words, choose from a list of common
reasons why something should be flagged (like reporting posts on Facebook and
other social networks). Anything flagged sufficiently would be investigated;
until an admin determines that a post is abuse, it might remain (cannot decide
clearly about this). Excessive false flagging would result in the flagger
being dinged on karma. And losing the ability to flag. (Another would be to
allow one flag per 100 karma points or some such thing.) We know from
behavioural psychology that punishment rarely works, that rewarding desirable
behaviour is far more effective. Why do we, a supposedly intelligent crowd
guided by facts and well established science, behave like schoolyard bullies,
shouting down the voices of others?

I upvote anything that piques my interest, intrigues me, expresses well what I
thought myself, expresses well a thought completely counter to mine (which
often means it is the first two things listed as well), and I often upvote
downvoted items; the first paragraph implies why.

------
ericthegoodking
I upvote most of SHOW HN, because I like supporting guys who are doing
projects.

------
dataminer
I upvote articles on which I would like to see more discussion. I upvote
insightful comments and rarely downvote as it discourages participation. I
think downvoting should be only used for extremely rude or misleading
comments. If I disagree with a comment I reply with my point of view.

------
rl3
When commenting, I first immediately upvote the underlying story before I even
begin to write, with little exception.

The reasoning is that doing so does everything in my (limited) power to
maximize the number of people taking part in the discussion I'm about to
enter.

------
organsnyder
For stories: I upvote only ones that I've completely read myself and found to
be high-quality, and only after I've also read the comments (to make sure
there aren't any obvious inaccuracies or other problems with the story).

For comments: I try to upvote ones that contribute to the discussion, but to
be honest I do catch myself using it as an "I agree" button from time to time.
My goal is to promote a high level of discourse, especially on both sides of
controversial issues.

I don't have enough reputation to have downvote powers yet, but when I get
there I plan to use it sparingly. Codegeek's approach to downvoting (sibling
to my comment) strikes me as a model to aspire to.

~~~
classicsnoot
the 'upvote as agreement' stance seems pervasive, as well as largely
justified. i wonder if having a selection of up-'s and down-'s might
worthwhile.

~~~
organsnyder
The problem is that the software uses a post's score to determine how it is
displayed. Therefore, upvote-to-agree philosophy can have the effect of
promoting the most popular opinions rather than the most well-argued ones.

To make a real-world comparison: If this were an in-person forum, an
up/downvote would be the equivalent of raising/lowering the volume of the
speaker's microphone. As much as it is in our nature to do so, we don't want
to simply raise the volume of the speakers whose views align with our own. In
fact, we should be trying to do the opposite so that we can seek to learn—we
have a lot more to learn from our detractors than from our adherents.

If the score was simply displayed as a metric of who has expressed
[dis]approval, then I'd agree with you. A system of specifying a reason for
up/downvotes could accomplish this (i.e. maintain separate scores for the
displayed count vs. the metric used to alter the comment's presentation), but
the UI could get fairly convoluted.

~~~
classicsnoot
agreed on the UI clutter aspect. Thank you for the mic metaphor, it was
excellent, i got the warm feeling of clarity in my gut as i read it.

------
Semiapies
I upvote articles that I find interesting or want to follow up on later, as
the vote puts them in my "saved stories" list. I used to flag blogspam and
like, but that got my flag button disabled for a year or two.

I downvote stupid posts and obnoxious posts. I upvote interesting posts and
posts that make me think. I see a lot more of the former than the later, the
last few weeks...

I also tend to downvote any post sticking up at the top that doesn't seem
highly worthwhile. Kind of like that recent reposting of the Fogus list of
papers every programmer should read, where the top-rated comment was by a guy
who complained about the title and indicated he hadn't even read the article.

------
jmnicolas
I always forget to upvote articles (sorry).

I upvote comments that speaks the truth and not the politically correct thing
to please the HN crowd.

I sometimes upvote comments that have merit but I know will be massively
downvoted (any criticism of PHP falls in this category ;-)

~~~
pyre
Criticism of PHP will be down-voted?

~~~
antidaily
Fair criticism is acceptable. But too often you see unhelpful comments like,
"Why anyone would put themself through the hell that is writing PHP code is
beyond me."

~~~
jmnicolas
Your example is exactly the kind of comment that speaks to my soul and I would
upvote it ! ;-)

It's not objective nor fair, so maybe it's a disservice to the community.

------
bradleyjg
Based on a suggestion from a long lost comment on here, I avoid upvoting the
first top level comment in a thread, unless it was just posted. Too often a
mediocre comment gets pinned to the top because it is the first thing everyone
reads.

------
onion2k
I mostly upvote intersting articles in 'new' (coding and science things),
comments that advocate rational and logical approaches to problems, and
replies to my comments that challenge my assumptions. I rarely upvote things
on the main page because they're already publicised, and I rarely downvote
things because a comment explaining why something is worthy of a downvote is
far more useful than a downvote.

I also upvote articles in 'new' that I've commented on so they're more likely
to hit the front page and get my comments votes. I have no idea if it works
but it makes me happy.

~~~
classicsnoot
do you thing some sort of color code to the upvotes would be worthwhile? say,
a red up- means a lurk up-; a blue up- is an upvote from someone actively
commenting? it might be an interesting perspective on how the discussion is
proceeding.

------
noarchy
I don't upvote many articles. From time to time during the day I go through
the "new" articles, and I'll upvote a few articles that I'd like to see on the
front page. They usually relate to programming or general science topics.

I upvote comments that I think are strong contributions to the discussion.
Simple enough. HN has enough quality participants that I often find several
comments per article to upvote.

I tend to save my downvotes for comments that are overly snarky or pedantic,
as I think we see a bit too many of those sorts of comments on HN, and I
reward them with downvotes.

------
tehwalrus
Articles: upvotes for things I read, or things I want to comment on (because
of the flamewar weighting.) Occasionally I'll upvote an article that doesn't
fit these criteria, e.g. because it is important but I don't have time to read
it right now (it then appears in my saved articles list, for later.)

Comments: I upvote comments that teach me something I didn't know, or which
are particularly good rebuttals to parents, or if I came to say the same
thing. I downvote intolerance (of people, ideas, languages, etc.) and poorly
thought out/obviously flawed assertions.

------
Bahamut
I downvote poorly thought comments, although given some of the abusive uses of
downvoting here, I would rather that it not exist.

I upvote articles I find to be interesting reads, articles worth significant
discussion on subject matter (tech or non-tech related - does not even have to
be math/science/engineering related), or comments to counter bad downvoting. I
also will upvote comments I like due to thoroughness, even if I disagree with
the argument(s) made.

------
protomyth
I vote stories up when It looks interesting and I want to here what other
HNers have to say on the subject. I tend to upvote a wide variety of subjects,
I just like it interesting.

I don't like down voting for disagreeing, but I tend to down vote when
something is factually inaccurate. I'll upvote stuff I disagree with as long
as it is well written. Cannot really have a discussion without different
points of view.

------
dragonwriter
Pretty simple:

upvote what I value and want to see more of on HN (this often includes
substantive, well-presented comments that I disagree with.)

downvote what I find to be a waste of time and want to see less of on HN (this
specifically does not include material that is well-presented, seems topical
for HN's stated focus, but that is just not particularly interesting to me.)

------
oneeyedpigeon
I upvote articles that seem particularly interesting and/or that I want to
read later. Since recently receiving some harsh downvotes simply for
expressing an opinion, I've changed my strategy to upvote comments that I feel
have been similarly mistreated. I rarely downvote anymore.

------
ajsbdouibn
I downvote all comments that have only one link in them yet the author puts
the link as a citation.[1] Same goes for footnotes.[2]

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8703949](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8703949)

[2] ...

~~~
daledavies
Why do you do this? I find this improves readability.

~~~
ajsbdouibn
It absolutely does not improve readability when there's only one think to cite
or reference and when it's a comment as short as the one I linked.

------
Casseres
I'm usually logged out, so I only upvote if it's worth my typing in my
password to log in.

I don't have enough points (263) to downvote. I should probably engage more.

(I logged in to upvote the Schwab post. This comment was secondary.)

------
jameszol
I up-vote the stories I intend to use or share with others in the future.
These stories usually resonate with me on some level so I find myself reading
significantly more stories than ever actually up-voting them.

------
swah
Other that interesting stuff: stories and comments by known commenters, both
parties on interesting discussions (so they think that some people aggree and
continue talking).

------
Gambit89
I upvote articles for archival purposes (read it later, reference, etc.), and
on topics I am collecting opinions on.

------
coherentpony
I downvote political stories and comments. I upvote anything I find funny,
insightful, or polite.

~~~
classicsnoot
interesting. is that because you feel like they [political flavored typings]
do not belong on HN, or because you personally dislike their presence? No
judgment whatever the case.

------
daledavies
I upvote anything that I find interesting, amusing and/or makes me think.

------
brudgers
When I feel like it, I click on an arrow.

------
lwh
If I shared it with anyone, I upvote it.

------
sum8080
I upvote randomly as a sort of meta-trolling

~~~
scrollaway
That'll show 'em!

------
Dewie
Agreement with my own point of view, and also posts that are clearly
contributing to the overall discussion. For down votes: posts that are clearly
wrong and/or nonconstructive. Also to spite people I don't like.

Oh, and I upvote submissions that I like, and also submissions that I want to
see more discussion around, even though I might not like the submission.

~~~
classicsnoot
your candor is refreshing. thank you for being honest.

------
angrybits
Pretty sure most people treat the downvote button on comments as an "I
disagree" button, which I don't think is helpful.

~~~
scrollaway
I downvoted you... not because I disagree (I believe you are somewhat
correct), but because not only aren't you answering the OP's question, you are
actively sidetracking it which I believe is harmful to the topic at hand.

Paradoxical, I know. YMMV.

~~~
oneeyedpigeon
Whilst no-one wants off-topic discussion, sticking rigidly to the original
point with no flexibility whatsoever is a bit claustrophobic for good
discussion to ensue. So I'm upvoting the original comment, but not downvoting
yours :-)

~~~
scrollaway
Well, I meant what I said about this entire ordeal being paradoxical. OP asked
about our own private upvote/downvote policies, and them being applied within
the comments of the thread itself leads to this actually being very much on-
topic.

