
When Django Fails? (A response) - tvon
http://lazypython.blogspot.com/2009/11/when-django-fails-response.html
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recurser
From the comments:

> The biggest issue I have is that model syncing fails

> silently (it's as if the app doesn't exist) if an

> import in the app models file dies with an exception

> (for instance, not found).

I've wasted hours trying to figure out those kinds of silent failures... it's
not much fun. Another one that stopped me in my tracks for about an hour is
that an app must have a models.py file to run unit tests, even if your
application doesn't have any models. If it's not there, instead of just saying
'models.py not found' it says something like 'application <your app name>
could not be found'. As others have said though, I guess that's the price you
pay for the luxury of having a framework to do the low-level dirty work for
you.

~~~
kingkilr
I don't consider the tests.py issue to be "part of using a framework" its just
as bug. However solving the problem properly is a harder problem (right ow
djangos app cache is a part of the orm, the right fix is to have a real app
cache that doesn't kow about models, ad let the orm have its ow cache that
just deals with models).

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leecho0
but it doesn't do a good job of explaining what to do when your database isn't
up to date. Geo django also gives horrible error statements (none at all when
the libraries aren't installed right).

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grandalf
are these sort (flame-inducing) of articles really worth having on the HN
front page? I flagged it.

~~~
kingkilr
I'm the author (although not the submitter), I didn't intend this as any sort
of flame-bait, I was just curious how well Django did at this stuff (a long
time ago I remember seeing a better error message wiki page).

~~~
megamark16
Great article! I wouldn't worry about the people who didn't read the article
and are getting upset about the perceived content, maybe they will learn an
important lesson about jumping to conclusions. While it's obvious that the
title is what is causing the negative comments, having actually read the
article I have to say that the title is appropriate. Thanks for writing this
up!

~~~
grandalf
No, I read it and thought it was much more reasonable than the Rails one with
a similar title. The problem was that it was _in response to_ the Rails
article, which was of very low quality.

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jister
Django fails, Ruby fails, Java is dead...what's next? _sigh_

~~~
tvon
No offense but I'm getting the impression that you (and grandalf) haven't read
past the title here.

Nobody is saying "[Django|Rails] fails as a tool/project/framework", the topic
here (and in the related submission about Rails) is _how do the tools we use
respond to error_ , how clear is the message we are given and weather or not
these responses could be clearer or friendlier. In short, "useful error
messages".

I think it's an interesting and useful topic of discussion and I submitted
this link to be complementary to the story about Rails (though I admit I
probably should have just added it in a comment to that story), not to some
how put Django against Rails (which seems to be a point of misunderstanding)
or to put Django itself down (which wasn't anyone's intent).

~~~
jister
Yes I didn't read past the title because the title itself is a turn off to me.

~~~
andrewljohnson
Then please, don't comment. The cliche "don't judge a book by its cover" comes
to mind.

Do you often judge articles by their titles and then proselytize to your
peers?

~~~
rbanffy
To be fair, he could ask if the article is worth reading because he felt
turned off by the title. The title is at least a bit inflammatory and the
article is the complete opposite of it.

