
A South Vietnamese Air Force Officer and a Crazy Carrier Landing (2015) - vinnyglennon
https://tacairnet.com/2015/08/20/a-south-vietnamese-air-force-officer-was-responsible-for-one-of-the-craziest-carrier-landings-of-all-time/
======
stickfigure
It seems worthwhile pointing out the comment at the bottom:

\-----

 _I’d like to point out that a lot of our young men are currently attempting
to do the exact same thing as was described above for the Afghani translators
who served with the US Army even at tremendous risk to their lives. They have
sponsored them for visas since their lives, and those of their families, are
increasingly at risk back in Afghanistan because of their work with the US.
Many of these Afghani and Iraqi translators saved US American soldier lives,
and made it possible for the our soldiers to work with the local populations
when this was critical.

Unfortunately, even as American soldiers are working hard to bring their
translators they worked with, along with their families, to the US, they’re
running into a lot of red tape back in the US, even though we’ve only filled a
fraction of the visas that Congress allotted for Iraqis and Afghans who served
with the US Army and other branches.

See: [https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/09/10/afghan-
tra...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/09/10/afghan-translators-
risked-lives-deserve-us-immigration-visas-column/1204853002/*)

~~~
chriselles
I’ve had some personal experience with this.

Having worked in Afghanistan in 2012-2014 and employing interpreters daily
that we shifted between government and military programs, a few of our
interpreters got caught outside of parameters for visas because we shifted
them between programs.

We’ve managed to get all of our long-term male interpreters out of the country
legally.

The biggest problem was getting our female interpreters out of the country
legally.

Our female interpreters were, on average, far better than the male
interpreters.

Further hindered by cultural differences making it exceptionally difficult to
get family permission to allow female interpreters to move overseas without
male family leadership, as well as a continuing paycheck to the family that
was all that prevented them from getting involuntarily married off.

We managed to get 2 of 3 female interpreters legally overseas, the 3rd is
still employed in various NGO programs providing good income for the family,
stalling on getting married off.

------
EB66
For those curious, here's a recent photo of Lawrence Chambers and Buang-Ly
pictured together at a 2014 commemoration of the event:
[http://www.navyhistory.org/2014/04/the-opportunity-to-
make-h...](http://www.navyhistory.org/2014/04/the-opportunity-to-make-history-
vietnam-war-heros-flight-to-freedom-remembered/)

------
alain_gilbert

        A South Vietnamese UH-1H being pushed overboard to make room for a Cessna O-1 landing. (U.S. Navy/released)
    

Why don't they just fly the helicopter and bring it back once the plane is
landed ?!

~~~
Alupis
> Chambers ordered all available hands to the flight deck, regardless of rank,
> to assist in moving any aircraft parked on the deck to a different spot,
> clearing a long strip for Lee to land on. Any helo that couldn’t be moved in
> a safe and timely manner was to be pushed over the side of the deck after a
> quick gear strip. An estimated $10 million worth of South Vietnamese UH-1Hs
> were thus stripped and jettisoned from the flight deck. When five more South
> Vietnamese Hueys landed on the deck during the mad dash to clear the deck,
> their occupants were hustled into the ship and their helos met the same fate
> as the others.

Seems there wasn't time or resources to get them all into the air quickly
enough.

~~~
pge
The same thing happened at the end of WW2 with all the PT boats that has been
shipped to the pacific. In the course of a war, a lot of equipment gets moved
to the field. When war ends (particularly abruptly as was the case in
Vietnam), it’s a cost benefit analysis as to whether it makes sense to ship it
back. PT boats were burned and scuttled in WW2, helicopters were dumped in
vietnam (not just in this case but in others to make room on the decks for
people). I’m sure a lot of equipment was left in the field as well.

~~~
smadge
And more recently in Iraq and Afghanistan, billions of dollars of equipment,
including thousands of Hummers and MRAPs were scrapped or donated to local
allied security forces as the cost of shipping them back the United States was
prohibitively costly. Embarrassingly, some of the equipment fell into the
possession of the Islamic State when they conquered northern Iraq.

------
krallja
I just visited the Midway in San Diego this spring. The ship has been turned
into a museum, and the Bird Dog is one of the first exhibits you can see. It’s
an amazing vessel, with lots of awesome and terrible stories to tell. Veteran
crew are always aboard to answer questions about the ship and their service.
HNers might especially like the CIC and other information handling rooms —
they’re configured like they were during Operation Desert Storm.

~~~
jstarfish
The Midway is definitely the best in the country, but if the west coast is too
far of a trek there are similar museums within decommissioned aircraft
carriers in Mobile, AL (USS Alabama) and Charleston, SC (USS Yorktown) that
I'd recommend. Each has interesting histories and exhibits, and veterans in
attendance.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
Also Intrepid in NYC, or do you not recommend that for some reason? I enjoyed
when I went, but that was over 20 years ago now. They've had a major
restoration and put one of the Concordes on display since then.

~~~
lakkal
And the space shuttle Enterprise is there now.

------
dang
This reminded me of an even crazier, and quite moving, story that appeared
here a few years ago. It's so similar that at first I thought the stories must
be the same, but they're not:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9462885](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9462885)

~~~
obituary_latte
Man, what a great 3 hour rabbit hole that just led me down. The linked video
about the USS Kirk was amazing. Thanks for the link.

------
travisjungroth
I think there may not have been a better airplane for landing on a carrier
than a Bird Dog. Those things have amazing landing performance. With the tanks
empty, it might not even have been overloaded.

What I don't get is why they couldn't make radio contact. There are standard
emergency frequencies (121.5, 243) that the pilot should have known about and
the ship tried to contact them on.

~~~
jack12
[1] says there was no headset, though who knows where they're getting that
information from. The photos in the article do kind of look like the pilot is
bare-headed.

1: [http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675069507_evacuation-
of-...](http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675069507_evacuation-of-
refugees_Americans-and-South-Vietnamese_USS-Midway_Cessna-aircraft)

~~~
travisjungroth
That would totally make sense, thanks. I doubt they had speakers and hand-
mics, although civilian Cessnas of the era sometimes did.

------
swingline-747
Not on a moving/bobbing/weaving/zigging/zagging carrier, but here's Alaskans
doing what they do best... taking off and landing in ~3m / 10 ft.

[https://youtu.be/f7u1jzjFL8s](https://youtu.be/f7u1jzjFL8s)

And here's a "helicopter" plane that plants it in 0 ft... doesn't even need a
runway. :D

[https://youtu.be/HJJI3kPZ0-I](https://youtu.be/HJJI3kPZ0-I)

~~~
delinka
And without all that wind?

~~~
VectorLock
Longer than 0 ft. ;)

------
PhantomGremlin
Contrast the carrier Captain's behavior with that of our current Secretary of
Defense (when he was a Marine General) when he was asked to aid Green Berets
in Afghanistan after they were hit by friendly fire.

First the Captain: _Captain Chambers’ actions could have very well had him
court-martialled and killed off his career in the Navy, and he was well aware
of that. Even still, he put his livelihood on the line and took the necessary
actions to save the Lee family._

Then the Marine General[1]: _" He was indecisive and betrayed his duty to us,
leaving my men to die during the golden hour when he could have reached us,"_

[1] [https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/former-special-
forces-...](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/former-special-forces-
officer-gen-mad-dog-mattis-left-my-n691211)

~~~
ams6110
Marines do not leave Marines behind. The Army are on their own.

------
RoutinePlayer
I just can't believe Buang-Ly doesn't have his own Wikipedia article.

------
komali2
>By the end of the war in Vietnam, a fairly sizable number of Republic of
Vietnam Military Forces (the South) officers and senior enlisted
soldiers/airmen, as well as their families, were marked for death. Their
civilian peers in the South were especially fearful of reprisal from the
invading North Vietnamese Army for supporting and harboring ranking RVNMF
personnel, who were often unceremoniously dragged out from their houses and
shot in the streets, their bodies left to rot as both a warning to anyone who
wouldn’t give up RVNMF troops and to the soldiers themselves that their demise
was imminent.

War absolutely disgusts me, but the Vietnamese war in particular was a horror
show. My grandpa tells me stories that make me want to vomit. Study the
history as much as I'd like, I will never understand how "start killing
people" becomes a valid solution.

~~~
matheusmoreira
> I will never understand how "start killing people" becomes a valid solution.

It's always the solution. The reason a "civilized" world exists is there are
people out there who are willing to commit extreme amounts of violence upon
others if called for. The credible threat of violence is what puts negotiation
and diplomacy on the table. Even something as civilized as a court of law
depends on the existence of armed enforcers in order to be respected.

~~~
komali2
>Even something as civilized as a court of law depends on the existence of
armed enforcers in order to be respected.

I disagree with the premise that the threat of institutionalized penalty is
what causes people to be good. I think the primary cause of good behavior is
lack of reason to commit crime (i.e well fed and housed comfortably) as well
as culture.

Why else would cities with exactly the same legal systems across the USA have
different crime rates?

~~~
matheusmoreira
Society cannot guarantee that 100% of the population will have no reason to
commit crimes. Even something as fundamental as not agreeing with a certain
law can be reason enough to break it, as seen in the case of civil
disobedience.

When we talk about the reason to commit crimes, we're talking about intent,
the very first stage of violent crime. That's the part where someone convinces
himself that it makes sense to use violence to get what he wants. Of course,
the less intent people are on committing crimes, the better. However, at this
point, violence is not happening yet.

Violence comes into play during later stages, when the criminal is actually
making his move. The purpose of the threat of violence is to convince people
that it's in their best interests to behave according to the rules. Warranted
use of violence exists to convince criminals that things could end up very
badly for them should they choose to escalate the situation.

Violence is what you use to make unwilling people do what you want. Robbers
use overwhelming violence to make victims give up their belongings. Cops use
overwhelming violence to make the robber surrender to arrest. If someone is
being judged in court, what stops them from literally getting up and walking
out to freedom? There are police officers there who will violently prevent
that from happening.

------
pilom
Vietnamese people fleeing their country for helping the US in the Vietnam war:
immediately brought to the US in helicopters and aircraft carriers and given
refugee status. Iraqi people fleeing Iraq because they helped us: forced to
stay in Iraq for >8 years while paperwork is done and then denied.
[https://www.thisamericanlife.org/607/didnt-we-solve-this-
one](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/607/didnt-we-solve-this-one)

~~~
cm2187
There is a small difference. The US was retreating to a hostile enemy in
Vietnam. Iraq is left in the hands of a US backed regime. When the talibans
take over Afghanistan, that will be a better analogy.

~~~
Cyph0n
A US-backed sectarian regime which has been persecuting a segment of its
population...

