

MacBook Air ships without Flash - jankassens
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/20/macbook-air-all-substance-no-flash/

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malandrew
I use Click-to-Flash on my laptop and it's not until you install a plugin like
that that you realize how inappropriately overused flash is.

My biggest complaint is sIFR text replacement. Seriously, using Flash just to
serve up a certain font for your H1 or H2 titles is complete and utter crap.

While I do think that this is bad user experience for those buying the MacBook
Air, it should help foster an overall better user experience for the Internet.

With Flash not coming standard and Apple gaining so much market share, it will
only be a matter of time before the percent of Flash enabled browsers falls
enough that web developers need to start using more appropriate standards-
based techniques.

Adobe claims that Flash reaches 99% of browsers:
<http://www.adobe.com/products/player_census/flashplayer/>

Once that hits 95%, I think we'll start seeing a tipping point. About 68% of
web browsers worldwide currently have partial HTML5 support (IE8+, Firefox
3.5+, Chrome 6.0+, Safari 5.0+, Opera 10+). That number is 72% in the US.

I give it two years until Flash and HTML5 are at parity with one another.

~~~
jacquesm
I've heard - and seen - the same argument made with respect to Flash on one
side and HTML4 + JavaScript on the other side.

I'm the biggest flash hater there is, I only started using it November last
year for one specific feature that we no longer could talk our way around
(video+audio) and it is really amusing to see history repeat like this.

Adobe isn't going anywhere, and, unfortunately, neither is flash. 'just' video
is not going to suddenly make everybody drop flash.

> While I do think that this is bad user experience for those buying the
> MacBook Air, it should help foster an overall better user experience for the
> Internet.

Reducing the user experience for any group does not increase the user
experience for the whole.

What it might do is foster standardization in the long run. But don't forget
that Apple is not doing this from the good of their heart to help open
standards, but simply because flash competes with the App store.

It is no coincidence that flash gets dropped from the MBA at the same time
that the app store for the Mac gets launched.

~~~
brownleej
How does Flash compete with the App Store more than HTML5? Since Apple has
been promoting HTML5 web apps, especially those targeting Mobile Safari, I
find it hard to believe that their hatred of Flash comes from a desire to
protect the App Store. I take Apple at their word that it's because of Flash's
atrocious performance, which as a Mac user I can attest to.

I don't agree with this decision, though. I think the best way to handle Flash
is to build ClickToFlash functionality directly into the browser.

~~~
yread
I think that flash competes with App store mainly in small silly games which
are free in Flash and probably will cost 0.99 in App store

~~~
redrobot5050
Except you can STILL go out to the internet and play those silly free flash
games.

And Flash Developers can now release their silly flash games on the iPhone/iOS
App store.

If either of those facts were not true, you might have a point.

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protomyth
This might go back to the problems with the Flash plug-in that shipped with OS
X 10.6. At the time, due to needing to get the discs made, 10.6 ended up
shipping with a Flash plug-in with a security problem. If I remember
correctly, the patch Apple shipped was shortly vulnerable too due to another
security problem.

I wonder if they've made a judgement that the basic installs of OS X will be
like iOS and not contain 3rd party software that they can't control.

~~~
tvon
Yup, there was a big fuss and all the headlines were sure to focus on
"security vulnerability" and "Apple". Color me unsurprised at this move...

------
code_duck
Firefox and Chrome will install Flash for you quite easily (or actually,
Chrome has it built in, doesn't it?). However, I suppose 60% of Mac users
prefer Safari. Does Safari have a plug in finder service like Firefox, if so,
does it locate Flash for you?

Oh, as the article notes, Windows doesn't ship with Flash installed, either.
Does this mean anything at all? No.

~~~
WalterGR
_Oh, as the article notes, Windows doesn't ship with Flash installed, either._

XP does. I don't know about Vista and 7.

Presumably some large percentage of Windows desktops and laptops are sold with
Flash pre-installed.

~~~
Keyframe
7 also doesn't ship with Flash.

------
b3b0p
I don't see the problem.

Flash is 3rd party add-on.

It doesn't perform wonderful and has some issues. More users are using Apple
products and have noticed it's not the best experience.

It has been stated and somewhat emphasized by Apple and the media to the
general public that HTML5 embedded video is the future. See for example:
<http://www.apple.com/ipad/ready-for-ipad/>

The way I see it this is just your typical forward looking / future innovation
push move by Apple.

------
lutorm
I thought the headline meant that the now HD-less Air also shipped without
flash memory. That seemed a tad more serious...

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oomkiller
This will probably improve security. If they shipped Flash on the device,
there is a very good chance that it would be out of date (and insecure) by the
time someone buys it.

~~~
wzdd
And in fact this has happened in the past: <http://www.us-
cert.gov/cas/techalerts/TA07-192A.html>

Seems like a good reason not to ship it with the OS.

------
YooLi
Not true, the MacBook Air ships with plenty of Flash :)

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1816749>

------
smackfu
How does this help the consumer?

~~~
uriel
Anythings that helps people stay away from Flash should be very welcome.

------
emehrkay
Funny because I watched the video of them talking about the air (white bkg,
shots of machining etc) and they kept mentioning how much that they loved
flash. They were talking about flash memory

------
rbranson
I read this as "MacBook Air ships without Flash [Memory]" as if someone got a
MacBook Air without an SSD inside.

~~~
jankassens
Sorry, I should have added Adobe.

Unfortunately, I can't edit the title.

------
GHFigs
Another way of saying this is "MacBook Air ships without common cause of poor
browser performance and crashes."

------
borism
dudes, WTF?

------
cletus
This is quite a shot across the bow by Apple. As the post says, all previous
(and existing!) laptops and desktops ship with Flash preinstalled. Whereas I
can understand the motivation for it missing from iDevices, this makes far
less sense.

This comes at about the same time that Apple deprecates Oracle's Java from OS
X. Is this a general move against preinstalling third party libraries or
unrelated?

Perhaps it signals Apple's belief that both technologies are moribund, if not
dying outright.

Perhaps it stems from Apple's claim that Flash is bad for battery life. This
can matter even when there aren't obvious Flash widgets on pages you visit.
Flash is used for ads and any number of tracking processes.

As much as some will love to pour hate on Apple for this move I think the real
failure here belongs to Adobe who has been satisfied to sit on their laurels
blaming Apple for victimizing them rather than delivering a compelling Flash
experience on mobile devices or OS X (3+ years after the iPhone's release only
now is full Flash running on mobile (Android) devices and reports are mixed on
the experience).

~~~
sigzero
"This comes at about the same time that Apple deprecates Oracle's Java from OS
X."

That isn't what they are doing at all. You read whatever you read incorrectly.
Apple is deprecating _their own_ version of Java on OSX.

~~~
nir
> Apple is deprecating their _own_ version of Java on OSX

Isn't it also the only version of Java known to run reliably on OSX?

~~~
protomyth
I would imagine Oracle will fix that problem.

~~~
malandrew
Somehow I don't think so. Oracle is a pure B2B play. Apple computers are still
a rarity in the enterprise, and in those companies that do have Apple
computers are most likely not Oracle's target market.

Oracle might try to remedy this situation eventually, but my bet is that it
will be too little, too late.

~~~
protomyth
Oracle's products are available for OS X and they need Java for their
installers / management consoles.

------
forensic
Apple is getting power drunk :[ They might be the next evil empire.

What they really should do is ship with both flash and Click-To-Flash. That
would be serving the users best.

~~~
adolph
That is a pretty hilarious/interesting idea. If Apple doesn't do that maybe
Adobe will license and start packaging Click-To-Flash with the Flash plugin.
That would be very nice and pro-consumer on Adobe's part.

~~~
redrobot5050
Apple wouldn't do it because making the user's have to click to load content
without an intuitive explanation isn't "easy to use".

Adobe wouldn't do it, because a large majority of their customers build
annoying flash ads.

