
What gives you anxiety at work? - bryanmillstein
Hi everyone,<p>I’m a software developer trying to better understand the causes of anxiety in the workplace. It&#x27;s research for a side project.<p>I&#x27;ve been talking to different people (engineers and product managers mostly) and it&#x27;s been fascinating.<p>So much of the anxiety people experience is hidden or unknown. Just talking about it openly has been helpful. For example, being asked for status updates on dev tasks throughout the day makes me anxious. I didn&#x27;t realize this was a trigger until I spent time thinking about why these seemingly benign questions bother me so much.<p>I put together this three question anonymous survey so I can learn from the community. I&#x27;d love to hear from you.<p>https:&#x2F;&#x2F;airtable.com&#x2F;shrVmaCcoog9Nd4L7<p>Thank you,
Bryan
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afarrell
Feeling confused about the thing I'm working on, but not taking the time to
really understand it because:

1\. I have so many years of people telling me that I'm "overthinking things"
or "trying to understand the universe"

2\. I'm behind-schedule on the task, as usual.

3\. I'm worried about getting fired again.

I'll watch talks like
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAQ6t3F_2Ug&t=800s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAQ6t3F_2Ug&t=800s)
and think "Yes! I'd like to live in that world. To have a mental model of the
world and be writing code to refine that." I just wish that when I was utterly
confused, I could put my foot down and say "No. I'm going go draw some
diagrams and ask questions and understand what is going on here. My questions
are reasonable and relevant." and draw out a flawed-but-coherent mental model.

But that's not realistic -- not until I have a reputation for actually
delivering at pace.

Someday I hope to be productive enough that I can have the political capital
to buy myself the time understand what I'm working on as I go. But that is
probably as unrealistic a pipe dream as becoming a father.

I have promises to keep.

And miles to go before I sleep.

And miles to go before I sleep...

~~~
bryanmillstein
This sounds stressful. I'm sorry you are not in an environment where you can
take your time and ask these important questions.

Keep going. Your questions are reasonable and relevant. Understanding the
"why" of what you are doing is crucial. It may seem like a hopeless effort but
it will get easier. The better you understand a problem the better you will be
able to solve it. It may be slow in the beginning but your confidence will
build over time and people will begin to appreciate your thoughtful questions.

You sound like a curious person. I'm reminded of the most curious person I've
read, Richard Feynman. He relentlessly asked questions and sought true
understanding at a fundamental level. If you haven't read his book "Surely
You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!", you should. It's wonderfully entertaining and
will perhaps encourage you to keep asking your questions.

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windyacres
I have a lot of anxiety with my current work (startup).

The anxiety mostly revolves around the feeling of not feeling valuable:

\- It kills me whenever I see other people get invited to meetings where I
have built a significant portion of the product and I don't.

\- It kills me whenever our team is growing and we start interviewing new
candidates, I volunteer to help recruit, but I am never considered.

\- Recently the manager divided the software up into 'areas of ownership' and
I got all the legacy tech debt low profile stuff. Even though I've worked on a
significant portion of the software. It kills me.

I can't seem to pin point how to grow in my currently work and it is making me
quite sad. I initially came in acting all humble and I think that hurt me. I
don't think I'm any less skilled than the other software engs but they sure
make me feel like that. It seems like every time we hire a some new person
from a FAANG company, they instantly get praised where as a non-FAANG person
(myself) just gets pushed down. I keep saying that it's me and I need to keep
performing the best I can and ignore all this noise, but I can't. I have not
quite figured out how to fix this situation I'm in.

~~~
bryanmillstein
I can relate to this. I've experienced each of these things and the crushing
feeling they bring. I've also been on the other side and experienced the joy
of a team that values me.

I've been an engineering manager and have helped people find their way through
these situations. If you want someone to talk to I'd be happy to have a phone
call. You can message me on LinkedIn.

linkedin.com/in/bryanmillstein

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smt88
> _being asked for status updates on dev tasks throughout the day makes me
> anxious_

Why _does_ this make you so anxious? As a manager, I'd like to know.

In my opinion, if your status update is "I'm behind schedule" then that's
something that reflects on me, the manager, for poorly budgeting time.

The problem is that individual workers don't feel that way, and it's hard to
make them believe you when you say you feel that way.

~~~
muzani
I think schedules are either Parkinson's Law (work expanding to fill time) or
things too tightly scheduled and about to fall apart. The only optimum is
getting the schedule accurate, which causes anxiety.

The other problem is that programming is not simply "development", it's
research too. Research can be a bottomless hole, and it's also really hard to
estimate how much research is needed.

For example, maybe I just want to add an icon to my social media site that
says this was fact checked. That doesn't seem too hard, but it also is, and
it's complex enough that it's patented by LinkedIn.

~~~
i5h4n
> The other problem is that programming is not simply "development", it's
> research too. Research can be a bottomless hole, and it's also really hard
> to estimate how much research is needed.

This. As a programmer, I've never been able to successfully explain to my
managers about this. It always ends up being a blame on me instead for "not
properly assessing and estimating the effort".

~~~
bryanmillstein
This will continue to be a challenge because humans are simply not great at
estimating. I have had success by explaining to managers that a big part of my
job is to help them manage risk. In order for me to do that properly I
typically need more information than is initially present so that I can give a
high confidence estimate. I might say something like, "I can give you a low
confidence ball park estimate right now but if you give me a few hours to
research then I can greatly increase the confidence level."

After all, you know the least about a project at the beginning therefore no
one should have a high degree of confidence in estimates given then.

~~~
muzani
Yeah, this was how I was trained to do it. A ballpark estimate on the spot at
best is around 30% accuracy. I normally wouldn't give an estimate unless I can
break it down the work into less than 4 hour chunks. Proper estimates also
contribute to work done as it involves the design, but it's normal to spend a
few hours doing estimation.

Trained managers are familiar with the cone of uncertainty, though.

But what I really mean is stuff on the level of powering a toaster with a car
battery. It's certainly possible, but nobody has documented on what they did,
and there's a very high number of uncertainties as neither were designed to
perform this way.

~~~
bryanmillstein
I think you nailed it by pointing out how overlooked the research part of
development is. Technical folks often understand this but it can be a
challenging concept for people who have not worked as a developer. They can
have a distorted view of the research to coding ratio. I imagine they often
believe that writing code takes up 90% of a developer's time when in reality
time spent researching and thinking is the dominant activity.

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s3b
Mostly it's because I'm facing a problem I don't know how to solve. And I'm
expected to somehow predict when it'll be done.

Another scenario is when I'm asked for updates but in reality the status
hasn't changed. And I can't say so because that would imply I've not done
anything even though I've been busy searching for a solution.

~~~
bryanmillstein
> Mostly it's because I'm facing a problem I don't know how to solve. And I'm
> expected to somehow predict when it'll be done.

Does your team allow for knowledge buying tasks? For example, if our team
needs to implement a continuous integration solution I might suggest to first
create a research task to evaluate the tools available. Once we have that
knowledge we can choose the best option for us and create the task to
implement it. The way you can sell this is by saying, "I can give you an
estimate now but I'll know a lot more after a few hours researching the
problem. If you give me that time then I can give you an estimate with a
higher level of confidence."

> Another scenario is when I'm asked for updates but in reality the status
> hasn't changed

I've struggled with this as well. Especially when the person asking for the
update is not technical and therefore has a hard time relating to the
complexity of the problem. In this situation your instinct may be to tell the
person what you think they want to hear. Something like, "I'm figuring out the
solution and should be done soon." I know it's uncomfortable but you are
better off being honest about your progress. Tell them that the problem is
more complex than you initially thought and you are having to do more research
to find the right solution. Don't forget that research is part of the job so
looking for solutions is doing work. Don't feel bad about that.

With that being said, there is nothing wrong with asking for help from other
developers when you are stuck. Asking for help is a sign of strength. It is
good to try solve problems on your own before asking for help but do not drive
yourself crazy. I have spent far too long banging my head against the wall
looking for solutions. These days I am much more comfortable asking for help.

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alexfromapex
When everyone understands that agile tasks are estimated but then at the end
of the sprint they’re treated like a fact to enforce an ostensible due date

~~~
bryanmillstein
This is such a common issue. Estimates are not commitments. When in your
process does this estimate get created? Is it during a backlog grooming or a
sprint planning session or some other time? Also, who is doing the estimating?

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eris202
What To Do if Your Workplace is Anxiety-Inducing Practice Self-Awareness.
Before you can improve your situation, it's important to understand what
exactly is creating your anxious feelings or worsening the symptoms of your
condition. ... 1\. Share Your Feelings. ... 2.Release Your Thoughts. ...
3.Know When to Ask for Help. ... 4\. Take Time Off. .. 5\. Accept Anxiety.

~~~
bryanmillstein
Self awareness is key. I have noticed a substantial improvement in my ability
to navigate anxiety since following a regular meditation practice.

Being able to separate my being from my thoughts has been a breakthrough. I
cannot stress enough how important it is to shift the thinking from "I am
anxious" to "I am currently experiencing anxiety". Anxiety is not your
identity, it is a fleeting emotion.

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devchris10
Wondering if you're better off spending your 8+ hrs elsewhere (whether that's
a different team, job, occupation, etc).

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quickthrower2
Having all my work timed by management. And then having that judged with a
passing “that shouldn’t have taken that long”. Which I interpret as “better
have arse cover for every minute of time I spend”. And “do as little as
possible to pass code review” etc. the law about getting what you measure.

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throwaway895432
My bosses hiring interns and asking me to train them without offering
additional compensation.

~~~
bryanmillstein
The benefit of this is that you can add it to your resume. I've hired many
engineers and I always like seeing experience mentoring younger developers. So
while it is unfortunate that you are not getting additional compensation, this
experience will pay you back in the future.

~~~
throwaway895432
Sure, but in this case, the anxiety is coming from the fact that we are now
competing for the same job in this company.

I have no doubt in my mind that when the company decides to go for another
cost reduction, I will be the one looking for a new job.

~~~
bryanmillstein
Oh ok, I understand. That sounds like a toxic environment management has
created. This advice may sound tone deaf considering our current economic
environment but maybe you should start looking for a new job.

Putting energy into a job search may alleviate some of the anxiety around
competing with the interns. At the very least you will have made some progress
on building a pipeline of new companies so if you do lose your job you will
not be starting from scratch.

~~~
throwaway895432
Thanks for the advice, I am already looking for a new job.

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ozychhi
Core dumps

