
China Unveils Plan to Tie Hong Kong, Macau Closer to Mainland - virtualwhys
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-18/china-unveils-plan-to-tie-hong-kong-macau-closer-to-mainland
======
voidreaper
Here's an interactive map of the growing Pearl River Delta megalopolis:
[https://geoshen.com/posts/the-pearl-river-delta-
megalopolis](https://geoshen.com/posts/the-pearl-river-delta-megalopolis)

~~~
emptyfile
>The PRD megalopolis is an urban area of gargantuan proportions with few like
it in existance.

>It's home to 65 million people, a population similar to that of the United
Kingdom.

>It covers an area around 55,000 km^2, about the size of the country of
Croatia.

>The GDP of the PRD megalopolis clocks in at over $1.2 trillion, about the
same as Mexico.

Well damn, I live in Croatia, can't even make a mental image of that amount of
people. For comparison its the same area size as New York state with over 3x
the population.

~~~
daliusd
And Croatia's town (like Split) leaves impression like a really crowded place.
At least for me as person from North Europe country.

~~~
emptyfile
You can't really take the one of the most visited and touristy places in
Croatia and consider it the average.

By comparison the largest city Zagreb of about a million people, which is a
quarter of the entire population, has the density of 1300 people per km2,
that's about 1/3 or 1/4 of the pop. density of Berlin or Stockholm.

Compared to Norway which is the least populated country on the continent,
Croatia has the same population in 20% of the space.

~~~
widforss
But it's not just tourists. I had an internship at the uni in Split, and that
thing has like 10 floors.

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chottocharaii
I heard from a Chinese legal academic that when China is diplomatically
isolated, the two provinces tend to be left alone to enjoy the benefits of
their independent foreign ties. When China is more politically feeling
comfortable, that is when the pressure for conformity tends to come from
Beijing.

~~~
geowwy
The opposite seems to be true right now. China's relations with the West are a
bit strained at the moment.

~~~
azurezyq
That's unavoidable actually. Basically US just begins to treat China as an
eligible opponent.

There were never "friendly" relationships between two superpowers in history
if I remember correctly.

~~~
oblio
There were, up to a point. France and the UK carved up several continents
without much tension, after 1850 or so.

Provided that China becomes less authoritarian and the US doesn't do something
stupid, it's not impossible for both to coexist, while still competing.

~~~
geowwy
The US doesn't care about authoritarianism. They're friendly with plenty of
authoritarian states. The issue is that China is pursuing an independent
foreign policy instead of following America's lead.

~~~
sonnyblarney
"The issue is that China is pursuing an independent foreign policy instead of
following America's lead."

The issue is mostly China grabbing international waters like the S. China Sea
as sovereign territory, grabbing Taiwan, pressuring Japan and neighbouring
states, and building what will eventually be a string of military bases
throughout East and South Asian oceans.

The US, in comparison, makes sure that _everyone_ \- including adversaries
like China, Russia and Iran - can navigate the Suez, the Panama Canal, Red
Sea, Arab/Persian Gulf, S. China Sea, Straits of Taiwan etc.

There would be zero problems, and US Navy presence in Asia would be minimal if
China wasn't trying to hustle this outside it's borders.

And FYI Americans do care about authoritarianism, and there is constant
pressure on places like Saudi to reform (and FYI there are steady reforms),
though yes, it's very secondary.

The paradox is that China is pursuing a macho 'we're the local king' strategy
much like Russia, when for it's own benefit, the military escapades are not
fruitful. Maybe in China's case there are some advantages, though almost none
in the case of Russia.

The new Belt-and-Road strategy is an example of a good project that will have
immensely positive results for most players - shenanigans aside. Nobody is
against any of this, we are all for it, except for the shifty things like
debt-traps to grab ownerships of ports, which will eventually be Chinese navy
bases.

China will continue to pursue the authoritarian entrapment of the citizens of
HK and Macau, and of course Taiwan, which isn't good for anyone really.

~~~
geowwy
>>> The US, in comparison, makes sure that everyone - including adversaries
like China, Russia and Iran - can navigate the Suez, the Panama Canal, Red
Sea, Arab/Persian Gulf, S. China Sea, Straits of Taiwan etc.

Right now they do. But if conflict breaks out between China and the US you can
guarantee the US will use its navy to block all trade with China. This puts
China in a very vulnerable position, which is why they're willing to risk
upsetting neighbours by aggressively pursuing bases in the South China Sea (as
well as the Belt and Road project).

>>> There would be zero problems, and US Navy presence in Asia would be
minimal if China wasn't trying to hustle this outside it's borders.

Why do you think that?

>>> China will continue to pursue the authoritarian entrapment of the citizens
of HK and Macau, and of course Taiwan, which isn't good for anyone really.

My wife is Taiwanese so I understand the situation pretty well. I just think
it's a mistake to put this down to ideology or democracy versus authorianism.
It's just two states vying for power, the same thing that's been going since
forever.

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JumpCrisscross
Scary from an investment perspective. Imagine having property rights under
Hong Kong law transitioned to the lawlessness of Beijing.

~~~
arcticbull
This has been true going all the way back to before the handover was
announced. Imagine having property rights under the United Kingdom and no
clear transition plan in the mid 90s? This has been the reality in Hong Kong
for a generation. I'm very curious to see how this evolves as we move forward.

~~~
mprev
So, we in the UK have a history of not having clear transition plans.

~~~
andy_ppp
And a future too apparently...

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seabrookmx
Honest question for someone who doesn't know the area well..

Macau and HK are both Cantonese speaking regions. Given that the
Infrastructure updates in the area make everything "closer" (in terms of
travel time etc), what impact is this having on language?

Is this a Montreal type thing where most people are bilingual enough where it
doesn't matter? Is Cantonese a de-facto street language in these South Chinese
cities even if Mandarin is the official language?

~~~
L_Rahman
We have an existing example to extrapolate from. Cantonese is the native
dialect in Guangzhou and it's fading away in the current generation of
children in no small part because of government pressure in schools. It's
likely that something similar will happen in Macau and HK.

[https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2136237/why-...](https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2136237/why-
has-cantonese-fallen-out-favour-guangzhou-youngsters)

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esturk
I wonder if the mainland will ever force either of the 2 ex-colonies to
convert into using the "right hand road" orientation? That would be an
interesting experiment.

~~~
kabouseng
As long as they do it incrementally it should be fine. For the first week only
transition motorcycles to drive on the other side, then the week after the
cars, then a week later transition the trucks and heavy vehicles to the other
side...

~~~
Waterluvian
That surely is an optimal way to transition them all to the Other Side, and
fast.

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spacehunt
Interestingly the plan mandates the use of IPv6 pretty much everywhere, as
well as FTTH to all homes in all cities across the PRD. It doesn't give the
reason why these specific technologies are mentioned in what's meant to be a
strategic plan though.

~~~
morpheuskafka
Too bad everyday citizens and businesses can't access the services they want
with it, most of the bandwidth will probably be used for surveillance and
control.

~~~
xvilka
They actually can. IPv6 support was recently enabled by many ISPs, online
services and mobile applications.

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rrrazdan
The headline is a little alarmist. I read the plan and the plan completely
acknowledges the one country, two systems principle.

~~~
AimForTheBushes
Choosing who is allowed to run for government doesn't really acknowledge the
two system principle.

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baybal2
More in detail:

[http://szdaily.sznews.com/PC/layout/201902/19/node_01.html#c...](http://szdaily.sznews.com/PC/layout/201902/19/node_01.html#content_566524)

[http://szdaily.sznews.com/PC/layout/201902/19/node_03.html#c...](http://szdaily.sznews.com/PC/layout/201902/19/node_03.html#content_566532)

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bitxbitxbitcoin
I suppose it's just simple math that multiple Bay Areas > Bay Area.

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ngcc_hk
Sad date of hk.

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dmix
Non-paywall [https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-unveils-plan-tie-
hong-1...](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-unveils-plan-tie-
hong-131533515.html)

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porpoisely
Firstly, this plan has been unveiled for a while now. Secondly, this plan is
as much hong kong/macau trying to "tie" itself closer to the mainland as vice
versa. But bloomberg being bloomberg, we get a dose of stale news mixed with
propaganda. Thirdly, rather than hong kong and macau being tied closer to the
mainland, it's really the pearl river delta cities just integrating together
as you'd normally expect cities in region to do.

Here is a 4 year old video on what the aspirations of the pearl river delta
are.

[https://youtu.be/gNE7VPtvfbI?t=1209](https://youtu.be/gNE7VPtvfbI?t=1209)

Another major megalopolis that china is building is centered around beijing.

[https://youtu.be/gNE7VPtvfbI?t=19](https://youtu.be/gNE7VPtvfbI?t=19)

~~~
spacehunt
The actual document was only released by the PRC State Council in the
afternoon of February 18 2019. Granted it's been over 24 hours by now, but
it's hardly stale.

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microcolonel
Rest in peace. Hopefully the Republic of China can manage to resist them.

