
As Boom Lures App Creators, Tough Part Is Making a Living - uladzislau
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/18/business/as-boom-lures-app-creators-tough-part-is-making-a-living.html?pagewanted=all
======
aaronbrethorst
Be the guy who sells the pick axes during the gold rush, not one of the guys
panning and mining for gold.

To be more specific, I've had exactly one 'hit' iOS app. It sold 60,000 copies
in late 2008. But I've made my living since early 2010 on iOS (and rails)
software consulting and development for other people and through
<http://www.cocoacontrols.com>.

~~~
powertower
I agree, but I can never get over the fact that selling picks and axes to
gold-rush miners is selling services and products to people who are chasing
unrealistic dreams and are statistically pre-dispositioned to fail. And is
just a way to take advantage of the situation to your own gain.

Fully knowing that, at the end of the day, I can't feel proud of that ...
unless I also increase the success rate of those miners.

So the moral of this is - don't just sell those picks and axes, but improve
and progress the process of finding gold.

~~~
jiggy2011
Not necessarily, unless you are misrepresenting something to your own
advantage I don't think you would have acted immorally.

You can sell your services to somebody who has better odds of success than you
would alone because of finance or other skills experience they have etc.

As I have mentioned elsewhere in the thread, there are _a lot_ of perfectly
valid reasons to hire a mobile developer other than "I want to be an appstore
millionaire".

Thinking about it only in this way might suggest an over-exposure to HN-think.

------
moocow01
I suppose its a lesson for them in how real risk works. They traded in an
opportunity with a high chance of making 200k for an opportunity with a very
low chance of making 1mm+ and a very high chance of making much less than
200k. They ended up probably statistically somewhere in the realm of average
which in reality should be of no surprise - its just unfortunate that it seems
they didn't take many safeguards for when the most likely scenario occurred.

I think there is an unfortunate side to the way the tech media has turned into
a machine at pumping out stories about all the big hits in that it gives a
very skewed perspective of how rare true sustainable startup success is. That
doesn't mean that it isn't worth pursuing but I think doing things like
cashing in your 401k is incredibly foolish to be totally honest. I dont blame
people for taking big risks being that most big success comes with big risks
but make sure you are completely ok with what big risk truly means.

~~~
jiggy2011
Very true, when I tell people I am a software developer they either assume I
live in a mansion with 5 ferraris or that I eat nothing but ramen and sleep in
my parents basement and not much in between. Sadly the second is probably
closer to the truth.

------
nhangen
Two things I noticed:

1\. Overspending - No need to buy hardware to 'test' if you can't afford to
live. 2\. Lack of Focus - An app a month sounds nice, but to quote the
article, 'decent is not good enough.' Hard to make 12 good apps/year, let
alone great apps. Not to mention support said apps.

That said, I'm finding that I have to work harder and harder to keep my apps
selling. Used to be that sales were the primary income, now it's ads for all
but one app.

Sadly, I don't see it getting anything but worse.

------
stevenwei
I'm sorry, but this _really, really_ does not compute:

    
    
        In March, with the apps bringing in only about $20 a day, they
        cashed in Mr. Grimes’s 401(k), which yielded $30,000 after taxes
        and penalties. They had already spent the severance from his job at Legg Mason.
    
        ...
    
        One thing they never scrimped on was technology, especially Apple
        technology. At one point they owned a 24-inch iMac, a Mac Mini, a 24-inch
        cinema display screen, two 13-inch MacBook Airs, a 15-inch MacBook Pro, two
        iPad 2s, two Apple TVs, two iPhone 4s and an iPhone 3GS. “We justify buying
        new models by saying we need them to test out the apps,” Mr. Grimes said.
    

WTF? I've been doing this full time for 2 years now and even I don't have half
as much gear.

~~~
andrewtbham
I feel their pain. I just paid $750 for an iphone 5. Right now to submit an
app for iPhone 5 you have to have a retina display with correct dimensions for
screenshots.

~~~
dejv
You can just use iPhone simulator to make retina screenshot and/or do bigger
screen testing.

~~~
megablast
Exactly Command+S has started to work again, so you easily save screenshots.
Just as you can develop iPad apps as well, without owning an iPad. All you
really need is a mac, although having a device really helps testing.

~~~
andrewtbham
Yeh, you guys are right. As a practical matter, I feel like you need either an
iPhone 5 or a retina display on your mac. When I use the iPhone (Retina
4-inch) simulator on my (non-retina) MBP, I can't see the whole thing on the
screen.

~~~
dejv
You can scroll the display same way like you scroll any other window.

------
n9com
This article highlights how most app developers try to enter the App Store
without any kind of business plan. To buy that many Apple devices when you are
only making $20/day is plain stupid.

When we started FIPLAB, we didn't even buy a single Apple device (other than
the iMac I already had for personal use). We used my friend's 1st Gen iPod
Touch to test our app on and did everything possible to not waste money
without first seeing whether we could make it in this business. 3 years on,
and everyone in our team is making a good living doing what they love.

The App Store today is a totally different beast and unless you are very
lucky, you won't make it big without a proper strategy that involves at least
a few of the following (1. securing press coverage on popular websites/blogs,
2. Having a budget to spend tens of thousands EACH DAY on generating downloads
(or a cross promo network to leverage your current userbase), 3. Developing a
viral app that quickly propels itself up the starts.

~~~
vpdn
"Having a budget to spend tens of thousands EACH DAY on generating downloads"
implies that you are probably generating more than that from your apps.

Do you have tips on each of the mentioned points? Details would be very
interesting. Also how do you evaluate app ideas for example to come to apps
like "Ghost for G+", the "Menu Tab" series and "Ask A Girl"?

~~~
vpdn
Found a good interview with the founders:
<http://outsourcedvideomarketing.com/fiplab/>

------
ronyeh
I feel bad for the couple featured in the article, but it looks like they
didn't bootstrap their business very wisely. They sold their car, cashed in
their 401K, and bought unnecessary hardware:

    
    
      When the newest iPhone came out at the end of September,
      the couple immediately bought two.
    

I've worked on iOS apps for 2 years, and still don't own an iPhone (an iPod
touch suffices). Why did they have three Macbooks, an iMac, and a Mac mini for
only two employees?

~~~
vpdn
Selling the car and cashing in 401K is generating cash flow. The hardware they
bought would be around 8k-10k$ expenses (4k-5k$ per person). I don't consider
this as a lot. Or is your point that they should have put that money into
marketing instead?

~~~
ronyeh
Car & 401K is a _terrible_ idea for generating cash. Keep your day job (or
find a day job) and build apps on the side until you think you've found a
winner.

Putting money into marketing is a difficult question. I feel like it works if
you have apps that are already generating money, so that you can use that
revenue stream to fund the marketing for your other apps.

But if you are just starting out, you should try the $0 marketing approach of
contacting bloggers in your space (in their case, educational app blogs) to
see if they'll review your app.

------
colkassad
It'll be interesting to see how the "app boom" turns out. The demand for apps
right now reminds me of the demand for all of the shareware, etc programs of
the late 90s, when personal computing was growing at a rate analogous to smart
phone usage today. Utilities to speed up your internet and computer and the
cute little animated tray programs, etc. (I had a soft spot for Tiny Elvis,
who at random times would be awed at the size of a an icon on my desktop and
then do a little jig). It was normal to pay for a web browser or video player.

I find myself only using apps that satisfy a core set of use-cases: favorite
website consumption (HN reader, Reddit is Fun), media consumption, and social
media. I play games much less than I thought I would have but I think it is
the one subset of apps that will continue to see demand. The apps that list
different types of knots...not so much.

~~~
kumarm
>>The apps that list different types of knots...not so much.

If you look at AppStores there are apps with Types of Knots that has in access
of Millions of downloads (Which I am sure had pretty good return).

Your analogy is wrong IMO. App boom is similar to Web Boom of Late 90's.
Almost everyone says they only visit 1-50 websites a day but there are several
10K's of sites that are profitable.

~~~
wallflower
> there are apps with Types of Knots that has in access of Millions of
> downloads (Which I am sure had pretty good return).

And there is even a niche inside the Knots niche. The sad truth is people are
searching for specific things 'how to tie my tie' not mediocre social
media/game/productivity apps.

[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.artelplus....](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.artelplus.howtotie&hl=en)

"INSTALLS: 5,000,000 - 10,000,000

Ratings: ____1/2

(114,872)"

------
purplelobster
I see phones and tablets as just another platform to put your service on. To
rely on app sales at this point seems foolish. Correct that, relying on app
store visibility is very risky, unless you're a big dog. In the end, a better
bet seems to be building a good service with a targeted audience that needs
your specific product, otherwise you'll be in the business of making
blockbusters, and you won't last for long.

~~~
GuiA
An exception to that is games or proof of concept app whose novel aspect will
be the main draw.

~~~
purplelobster
Yes, selling games will always be tricky, unless the platform is very new.

------
vpdn
To put another data point out there: I recently released a little kids puzzle
game[1]. I payed a friend to help out with the coding, contracted out
illustrations and purchased the sounds from stock sound services. I've put in
around 10k$ to develop the app and it's generating around 2$/day. It will take
me roughly 13-14years to break even :)

However I also see the app as a advertising for my consultation business and
plan to use it to cross promote my next kids app[2], so it's hard to figure
out the real cost/benefit structure.

[1] Animal Puzzle - [http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/kids-animal-
puzzle/id54051213...](http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/kids-animal-
puzzle/id540512136?mt=8)

[2] ToddlerTube - <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4504690>

~~~
kranner
I released a free game [1] recently which had been performing rather poorly
with IAP. But in a recent release, I reduced the amount of free gameplay and
allowed users to use (and spend) more than one hint per level (and of course I
sell hint packs). Since then it's been doing much better.

If you don't mind unsolicited advice (and I've only seen your screenshots):

a. How about releasing a paid version of your app with everything enabled but
no IAP? If nothing else, you'll come up in the new releases chart again.

b. I'm not sure what your in-app store looks like, but in my game I sell a
'combo' pack which includes two regular packs and 10 hints, all available
separately, for a discounted price. I call it a 'combo super-saver' and even
put a yellow star in front of it to draw the eye. It is the biggest selling
SKU by far. Can you try something like that?

[1] [https://itunes.apple.com/app/alphabet-connection-
logic/id560...](https://itunes.apple.com/app/alphabet-connection-
logic/id560852073?mt=8)

------
mdonahoe
I really enjoyed Matt Rix's write up about his success with Trainyard, a hot
game from two years ago.

"It’s like winning a lottery, but a lottery where you work really really hard
to buy your ticket."

~~~
gojomo
For reference: <http://struct.ca/2010/the-story-so-far/>

------
dendory
This story is more about personal stupidity. They buy a ton of new Apple
products then lie to themselves saying it's for "business". It shouldn't be
news that most devs dont make much on AppStore apps. $5,000 isn't bad from
indie apps. Honestly, I doubt even large corporations spend $200,000 to create
an iPhone app.

~~~
objclxt
> Honestly, I doubt even large corporations spend $200,000 to create an iPhone
> app.

I just don't understand how you manage it. I develop apps for large
corporations, and you're right: most of them aren't spending $200k - and the
ones that _are_ spending $200k are getting serious software and a full team
(designers, PMs, developers, testers, etc).

Although the story is a little unclear: it talks about $200k in "lost income
and savings", which is a little different to putting money up front.

------
andrewtbham
Their apps just don't look that good. Spooky headlamp?

<http://www.campfireapps.com/>

[https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/henrys-spooky-
headlamp/id469...](https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/henrys-spooky-
headlamp/id469760219?mt=8)

~~~
matwood
That's what I was thinking. Clicking around a few more of their apps, I
noticed a self review on Patriot Dash from the husband in the article:

"I'm very proud of these high school students and their hard work. I can't
wait to see what else they do."

Did the wife need to quit her job in order to help develop these games? They
look fairly simple. Why didn't the husband keep doing contract work on the
side the whole time? Was their any real thought into a business plan? Games
are a tough, hit driven market. Kids games can be even harder because of
competition with well known names and characters from the likes of Disney,
Lego, etc...

I noticed a mini-golf game on the web site. I'm typically a sucker for those
types of games, but when I opened it realized it's only a score keeper! Sigh.

The app store gold rush is over, but the article confused the gold rush ending
with too many poor business decisions.

------
thewarrior
I see this as a great opportunity for developers from countries like India
(where I'm from) . Though the barriers to entry are a bit high , they can
easily sustain themselves compared to their western counterparts if they're
good enough.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
I don't think you are going to have a good quality of life on $200/year even
in India.

------
alexbell
The article doesn't detail their planning, goals, etc...but it seems to me
like they went all in without a solid plan. Just hoping to get rich. And it
didn't happen.

------
petercooper
This is why like in most lines of business, the best technique is to reach a
"sale" (or at least a _lead_ ) as soon as possible and _then_ fill in the
blanks. Spending ages perfecting something you "want" to build and then trying
to find a market for it is incredibly risky whether it's an app or a startup.
Perhaps build a quick prototype, build up demand, find buyers, then build the
app.

------
gojomo
Is free-to-play with in-app upgrades now the favored model for games?

~~~
hayksaakian
Yes. See League of Legends and Team fortress 2 on PC and all the top grossing
games on iOS and android. Developers follow the money.

~~~
SyneRyder
For the alternative viewpoint, see "Amid Slumping Revenue, Punch Quest
Switches To A Paid Game" over at Touch Arcade:
[http://toucharcade.com/2012/11/14/amid-slumping-revenue-
punc...](http://toucharcade.com/2012/11/14/amid-slumping-revenue-punch-quest-
switches-to-a-paid-game/)

~~~
danso
Yes, I wonder if the differentiation between Punch Quest's tepid profit and
between TF2 and other successful in-app-purchase games is that Punch Quest is
a single-player game with very little social action. It's certainly a high
quality game, one of the most polished endless-runner type games I've ever
played. But since the game is enjoyable without all the purchasable
perks...and because I have no one to brag to/compete with...I don't have much
incentive to buy anything. In a sad way, PQ's competence and good faith is the
cause of their troubles.

TF2 is surprisingly making a lot of money for its age and niche community (I
call it niche because it's tight-dependence towards teamwork makes it
unforgiving to newbies who'll get booted)...I don't understand why people buy
the hats, but I do think there's an advantage to picking up the special
weapons.

