
Uber CEO linked to escort bar visit that resulted in an HR complaint - bdcravens
https://www.engadget.com/2017/03/25/uber-ceo-kalanick-self-driving-car-crash/
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ijafri
may be i didn't get it correctly, why is it exactly a 'scandal' ... going to a
escort bar with employees? or then leaving early?? I don't get the scandalous
part in there?? out of all this fiasco, I have figured, Uber does have serious
HR issues, but i don't appreciate the vendetta campaign that apparently is
specifically targeted at defamation of the company, than actually doing
anything about it... I am an Asian, even so, a Pakistani, so I clearly don't
have a dog in this fight... I am inclined to believe this all began, after
Travis joined Trump ... may be I could be wrong? Having said that, I don't
want to undermine the legitimate concerns and complaints of the female staff.

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barking
Do you need it spelt out for you? Karaoke today, a kiss next time, maybe even
a frenchy.

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Overtonwindow
I still don't understand escort or strop clubs. I mean why? Is it the food? If
I want to see a half naked woman missing teeth with a meth habit I'll go to
Walmart.

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barking
> four other men in the group picked out their favorites from a group of
> numbered women and proceeded downstairs to sing karaoke.

OMFG!!!!

~~~
no1youknowz
20 years ago, I was in Hong Kong and Macau. The first time I saw this, was my
first reaction as well. To my Chinese colleague, it was no big deal.

I thought it interesting how western culture and eastern culture were so
different and what was acceptable. I lived in the Far East for 6 months. Very
interesting times.

~~~
dukeluke
What's interesting to me is the differences in cultures within the US. I live
in Missouri, and I actually thought the "OMFG" post above was a joke because
what the CEO did was so tame. It's tacky, sure, but not rage-inducing. I take
it from the reactions on this site, though, that it would be unacceptable on
the coastal regions.

Edit: to those downvoting, could you please explain why? I'm honestly clueless
as to why you're downvoting me.

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crispyambulance
What even is an "escort-karaoke bar?" Karaoke and prostitution don't seem like
a remotely believeable mix.

Whatever the case, it seems creepy, I am glad to have deleted my Uber account.

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M_Grey
It's actually a _very_ common things in Japan at least, for men and women. Not
just karaoke either, men and women pay younger, attractive people to pour them
drinks, pay attention to them, laugh at their jokes, etc.

Not defending Uber's CEO of course, but this is like learning that Jeffry
Dahmer occasionally drove slightly over the limit.

~~~
crispyambulance
I'm glad to have learned about this now so that if I find myself in an Asian
country with colleagues at a "karaoke" joint, I'll be able to suppress my
"WTF" face when a mama-san brings in a line of numbered girls.

~~~
M_Grey
It can be even more awkward... at that kind of establishment often they'll
either cater to Japanese people only, or tourists only (you do get some mixed
places). The thing is, they're so polite that it can take a _long_ time to
realize that you're just in the wrong place.

Note: this goes for almost everything, from baths to ramen shops.

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camillomiller
I was eager to call out the clickbait here, but actually it's not as I
expected. The karaoke-escort incident is apparently another piece of evidence
that the company's sexism problem is endemic and comes from the top. In other
news, they keep getting their cars involved in accidents. Maybe they
programmed the autonomous driving system to get distracted by nice girls on
the sidewalk.

~~~
ThomPete
Whats sexist about going to an excort bar?

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Eridrus
It reinforces the notion that women are objects to be paid for?

Sexist or not, this seems highly inappropriate for a work outing, and
definitely adds more evidence to how Uber does not strive to have an inclusive
culture.

~~~
ThomPete
How on earth do you get to that conclusion? I get that uber is a toxic
environment but it's not because they go to an escort bar and they don't go to
an escort bar because the environment is toxic.

Plenty of people do that and they work in great companies. They mostly do it
because they are men and some men like to do that.

It sounds more like the a priori acceptance of some feminist branding of sex
for money as turning women into objects to be paid for.

Everyone who takes money to do something for others are assets for them.
That's why they pay the money. Whether thats working in an escort bar or
working 100 hours a week in a startup, the only difference is that one job is
paid much much better.

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tptacek
Again: normal people do go to strip clubs (not so sure about "escort bars").
But normal companies don't have what are effectively company outings to strip
clubs, and plenty of companies have gotten in trouble for doing that.

~~~
ThomPete
Sure they've gotten in trouble but the claim is that it's sexist. Thats not
why they got in trouble though.

~~~
tptacek
It is sexist in exactly the same manner as the (I think you thought
deliberately absurd) example you provided downthread, in which a company held
business meetings in the men's bathroom.

~~~
ThomPete
I didn't say they held business meetings in the bathroom but nice strawman.

I said that men meet and talk in bathrooms which excludes women at places
where there are very few of them.

So it wasn't deliberately absurd it was just deliberately different to make a
point about the absurdity of the argument that excluding women from being in
the company with men from their company is sexist per defition.

Furthermore where in the article does it say that they were conducting a
business meeting at the strip club? Nowhere what so ever. So you are basing
your argument on things that didn't happen.

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tptacek
I didn't say that you did. Again: I know we disagree about a lot of this
stuff, but I'm taking pains not to jab at you, and would appreciate if you'd
reciprocate.

It is in fact the case that if a company has a systemic practice of making
business decisions in the men's bathroom, women working at those companies
will have a cause of action against that company.

Further: I made clear to you downthread that on the matter of whether the trip
to the club was a business matter at all, reasonable people might disagree. I
conceded up front that you might have an argument there --- I strongly
disagree with that argument, but it's one you can reasonably make.

~~~
ThomPete
Yes you did

"(I think you thought deliberately absurd) example you provided downthread, in
which a company held business meetings in the men's bathroom."

Furthermore you haven't pointed to a single example of any kind of business
being conducted at the strip club.

It's not something I would drag other people to do, but it has nothing to do
with gender discrimination to go to a scrip-club especially not when the
purpose seemed to be picking up women not discussing the latest strategy.

~~~
tptacek
Once again: if your argument is that a group of company executives can decide
on a whim to go to a escort club together and not have it be a business
function, I can agree to disagree with you. I'm simply rebutting the notion
that attending an escort club can't be on its own intrinsically sexist.
Clearly, it can be.

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ThomPete
who said it can't be? Another strawman.

~~~
tptacek
You literally asked the question:

"Whats sexist about going to an excort bar?"

I'm simply answering the question. Please stop being so rude.

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ThomPete
You seem to be the rude person here. The context is pretty clear, i dont need
a lecture in theoretical scenarios that have nothing to do with this case.
Nowhere is feels pressured or businnes meeting at an escort bar mentioned.

