
Microsoft Edge is now the second most-used desktop browser - Garbage
https://news.softpedia.com/news/history-in-the-making-microsoft-edge-overtakes-mozilla-firefox-529640.shtml
======
40four
For anyone who comes straight to the comments, I recommend passing on this
article. If you already clicked through, I'm sorry :)

It it misleading, the writer is only considering desktop usage, and then
constraining the data the the month of March. The 'evidence' is in the form of
a single screenshot, from his lone data source NetMarketShare. He is trying to
hype it up as some sort of 'grand' milestone.

Here is another data source that says otherwise -
[https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-
share/desktop/worl...](https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-
share/desktop/worldwide/#monthly-202003-202003-bar). Other commenters have
also pointed out data that conflicts this premise.

It is poorly written, and over the top. The poster used the subtitle here, but
the real title of the article is 'History in the Making: Microsoft Edge
Overtakes Mozilla Firefox'. Also making points such as "While some expect
Microsoft Edge to become the world’s top desktop browser...". Come on man.

Finally, it is just not that interesting. The real story should be, _some_
Firefox/ IE users decided to try out the new Edge in the month of March, after
a flashy new version was released. Maybe Edge really will continue to claw a
few points of market share, let's follow up in a few months. But this
particular article is really poor.

~~~
zrm
It's hardly even the right story on the desktop. It was obviously going to be
the case that Edge would take market share from IE over time, because it
acquires users in the same way that IE did (by being the default on Windows),
and they're the same users.

At one point IE was the number one desktop browser. So this is really just a
continuation of the story about how Microsoft lost its browser dominance to
Chrome, and then conceded defeat by adopting its engine.

~~~
wayneftw
Well, I was there and during the first browser wars and I saw users and
developers choosing IE because it was faster and had more features than
Netscape. Thanks to Microsoft we got XMLHttpRequest (AJAX) and Web 2.0 (DHTML,
iframes).

IE was just a better browser and that's how it gained market share - the same
way Chrome did. The fact that IE was the default was secondary. If being the
default was all that was needed, IE would have never lost any market share.

Having your competitor do all the work and then using it to your advantage
sounds like a win to me though. Also as a user and a developer I consider it a
win on multiple levels. I'm happy that every desirable target platform now has
a default embeddable browser engine derived from a common high-quality WebKit
heritage. I also now have a major non-Google fork of Chrome to choose from,
one that I know will be there for the next decade.

~~~
zrm
We can actually measure how much was "choice" and how much was "defaults"
because at that time there were versions of IE for Mac and Unix. They were,
shall we say, not as popular as the Windows version. Even when there were a
lot of websites that only worked in IE. Heck, you can still get Edge for
macos/iOS and Android, how popular are they compared to on Windows?

And Chrome got popular in much the same way. For a long time you couldn't go
to google.com in a non-Chrome browser without seeing a banner pushing Chrome,
and it was bundled as a "you must notice and uncheck this box or Chrome will
be installed as your default browser" option in a wide variety of popular
third party software installers, and it's the default on most Android devices.

"Good enough" and "gets installed by the user _not_ doing something"
consistently beats higher quality options for popularity. Look at Firefox --
it's not doing anything like that, it's a better browser by a lot of metrics,
and it's losing market share.

~~~
wayneftw
> We can actually measure how much was "choice" and how much was "defaults"
> because at that time there were versions of IE for Mac and Unix.

Let's see your measurement then. I worked among people that used Mac and Unix
back then and most of them were anti-Microsoft zealots or brainwashed by the
anti-Microsoft zealots. Aside from that - they were in the vast minority, but
more importantly: They weren't getting the same product as on Windows.
Furthermore, IE was the default on OSX from 1998-2003. How'd that work out?

Google pushing Chrome from google.com is nowhere near the same thing as "being
the default browser". Not even close. And it goes against your idea that
"users not doing something" is what gets you a higher market share. It doesn't
explain the rise of Firefox at all. As well, Chrome got popular in tech
circles before they even started doing that.

Tech circles is where all this starts. Once we like something, we push our
families, friends and businesses to use it.

> Look at Firefox -- it's not doing anything like that, it's a better browser
> by a lot of metrics, and it's losing market share.

It's a worse browser by just about every metric.

~~~
zrm
> I worked among people that used Mac and Unix back then and most of them were
> anti-Microsoft zealots or brainwashed by the anti-Microsoft zealots.

Explain Edge on non-Windows platforms today then. A mobile version exists, but
so few people use it that it ends up inside "Other" in most charts, behind
such well-respected alternatives as the house-brand browsers of various phone
OEMs that bundle them by default. Windows Phone no longer has a meaningful
user base, so this is from much the same population who use Windows on the
desktop.

> Furthermore, IE was the default on OSX from 1998-2003. How'd that work out?

Netscape was disbanded in 2003, so apparently pretty effective.

> Google pushing Chrome from google.com is nowhere near the same thing as
> "being the default browser".

The equivalent of a billion dollar marketing campaign will raise usage of
something independent of whether it's really any better than the competition.
Otherwise Coca Cola has been wasting a lot of money on advertising.

> It doesn't explain the rise of Firefox at all.

You have to be the default and be "good enough." It doesn't have to be better
but it can't be a lot worse. IE during the rise of Firefox had claimed victory
and given up, so it was stagnant and no longer good enough.

> Tech circles is where all this starts.

Somehow Samsung has higher mobile browser market share than Microsoft and
Mozilla put together.

> It's a worse browser by just about every metric.

Browsers are so complicated and there are so many possible metrics that we
could have that debate for ten years and not cover half of it, but suffice it
to say that some people disagree with you:

[https://www.google.com/search?q=why+is+firefox+better](https://www.google.com/search?q=why+is+firefox+better)

------
lolc
> But all of these show that Microsoft Edge is now a fully-featured
> alternative to Google Chrome

Given that it uses Chrome's engine, Edge isn't an alternative to Chrome. It's
just an alternative version of Chrome.

Sure, from a user perspective, it's an alternative. From a dev perspective, it
adds to the dominance of Chrome.

~~~
err4nt
From a dev perspective it also loosens Google's grip on Chromium, the #1
rendering engine :D Having Microsoft collaborate and diversify that project is
a major win for all of us.

I am hoping/wishing that Mozilla will drop gecko development and repackage
WebKit - it would be great for them to join forces and pool resources with the
#2 engine!

~~~
alunchbox
It's not just a drop in replacement and since Firefox quantum the rending
engine has felt butter smooth. Overall Firefox personally 'feels' faster than
Chrome, just a personal view but I do love Chrome's developer tools. Not sure
if there's a way to improve Firefox's developers tools to bring it in line
with a similar experience.

~~~
jjoonathan
It's such a shame that failing to test on Firefox became acceptable in dev
communities right around the time that Quantum happened and Firefox got back
into the fight. Just a year of acceleration on Quantum's timeline, or a year
of slippage in Chrome's, could have made such a difference.

------
Semaphor
Germany, desktop, statcounter: chrome 44.65%, ff 25.5%, safari 8.8% and edge
just below it (can't get it to show the exact number on mobile). and fwiw, I
think new Firefox installs since last year block most of those trackers by
default

------
DeathArrow
The most important thing is not Edge surpassing Firefox, but the fact that
Edge switched to Chromium, so Firefox is the only alternative to Chrome. And
FF market share is tiny.

That is bad for end users and businesses alike.

~~~
rubber_duck
Not really - if Microsoft is unhappy with how Google is handling Blink they
can just fork, just like Google forked WebKit - there is a sufficient number
of big players competing in this area - having a shared open source rendering
engine is a good thing.

I like Mozilla because of Rust efforts and I recently tried switching on OSX
since Chrome is a CPU hog and I was looking in to alternatives - Firefox was
the most unstable experience I had in years - I had a news site consistently
crash the browser tab which also caused audio in other tabs to get screwed up,
occasional redraw issues (flickering when resize), developer settings that are
trivial to find in chrome (disable localhost CORS with SSL) - just a subpar
experience.

------
err4nt
This doesn't seem to reflect the stats I look at [1], which are

\- 1/3 people people using Chrome

\- 1/10 people using Safari

\- 1/20 people using Firefox

\- 1/50 people using Edge

\- 1/50 people using IE

Firefox hasn't been #2 browser in a LOOOOOOOONG time

1: [https://caniuse.com/usage-table](https://caniuse.com/usage-table)

~~~
lucideer
This article is about desktop browsers.

------
nma18
It's important to note that the article says that Edge is the 2nd most used
_desktop_ browser. Including mobile, Edge lags far behind Chrome, Safari and
Firefox.

~~~
SimeVidas
Wikipedia’s analytics say it’s the 5. most used desktop browser:

[https://analytics.wikimedia.org/dashboards/browsers/#desktop...](https://analytics.wikimedia.org/dashboards/browsers/#desktop-
site-by-browser/browser-family-and-major-hierarchical-view)

------
SimeVidas
According to Wikipedia’s traffic analytics, Firefox has 13% and Edge has 5% on
desktop.

[https://analytics.wikimedia.org/dashboards/browsers/#desktop...](https://analytics.wikimedia.org/dashboards/browsers/#desktop-
site-by-browser/browser-family-and-major-hierarchical-view)

------
Ylodi
NetMarketShare? They have been loving Microsoft for a very, very long time.

[https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-
share](https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share)

------
prophesi
This doesn't seem to be the case? I visited NetMarketShare myself, and showed
the market share stats for all browsers, excluding bots/spiders. It then shows
Chrome > Safari > Firefox > IE11 > Edge.

Pardon the large, ugly URL, but this is the filter I used:

[https://netmarketshare.com/?options=%7B%22filter%22%3A%7B%22...](https://netmarketshare.com/?options=%7B%22filter%22%3A%7B%22%24and%22%3A%5B%7B%22deviceType%22%3A%7B%22%24nin%22%3A%5B%22Bot%20or%20spider%22%5D%7D%7D%5D%7D%2C%22dateLabel%22%3A%22Trend%22%2C%22attributes%22%3A%22share%22%2C%22group%22%3A%22browser%22%2C%22sort%22%3A%7B%22share%22%3A-1%7D%2C%22id%22%3A%22browsersDesktop%22%2C%22dateInterval%22%3A%22Monthly%22%2C%22dateStart%22%3A%222019-04%22%2C%22dateEnd%22%3A%222020-03%22%2C%22segments%22%3A%22-1000%22%7D)

Edit: I see now that softpedia is talking about desktop browsers only. Even
then, Edge is in fourth place.

[https://netmarketshare.com/?options=%7B%22filter%22%3A%7B%22...](https://netmarketshare.com/?options=%7B%22filter%22%3A%7B%22%24and%22%3A%5B%7B%22deviceType%22%3A%7B%22%24in%22%3A%5B%22Desktop%2Flaptop%22%5D%7D%7D%5D%7D%2C%22dateLabel%22%3A%22Trend%22%2C%22attributes%22%3A%22share%22%2C%22group%22%3A%22browser%22%2C%22sort%22%3A%7B%22share%22%3A-1%7D%2C%22id%22%3A%22browsersDesktop%22%2C%22dateInterval%22%3A%22Monthly%22%2C%22dateStart%22%3A%222019-04%22%2C%22dateEnd%22%3A%222020-03%22%2C%22segments%22%3A%22-1000%22%7D)

Edit #2: forthefuture found the filter they're using, so you can disregard the
above.

~~~
forthefuture
It's an aggregate of the months you're selecting (2019/04 - 2020/03). If you
select just March you can see what they're seeing:

[https://netmarketshare.com/?options=%7B%22filter%22%3A%7B%22...](https://netmarketshare.com/?options=%7B%22filter%22%3A%7B%22%24and%22%3A%5B%7B%22deviceType%22%3A%7B%22%24in%22%3A%5B%22Desktop%2Flaptop%22%5D%7D%7D%5D%7D%2C%22dateLabel%22%3A%22Custom%22%2C%22attributes%22%3A%22share%22%2C%22group%22%3A%22browser%22%2C%22sort%22%3A%7B%22share%22%3A-1%7D%2C%22id%22%3A%22browsersDesktop%22%2C%22dateInterval%22%3A%22Monthly%22%2C%22dateStart%22%3A%222020-03%22%2C%22dateEnd%22%3A%222020-03%22%2C%22segments%22%3A%22-1000%22%7D)

~~~
prophesi
Ah, thank you. I wish they included the URL, or shown the entire filter they
used.

~~~
40four
It looks as if some Firefox users bailed to try out the new Edge since the
update? Chrome usage remained mostly constant.

I'm curious to see if they stick with it, or switch back to Firefox. I like
how the article talks as if it was some sort of inevitable milestone we've all
been waiting for. And now, instantly, the second that Edge _finally_ eek-ed
past Firefox (if we consider desktop usage only), it will never change. It
will just keep climbing and climbing onto browser dominance :)

Pretty lame article if you ask me. Not very interesting.

------
h91wka
Edge is packaged with Windows.

Chrome used Trojan horse tactics to get into the computers. Back in the 2010s
when it just appeared, almost any popular freeware installer got sneaky "Also
install Google Chrome and make it the default browser" checkbox.

So, underhanded tactics are extremely efficient. Therefore, I expect that
Firefox will keep losing shares. Making a better browser won't help them.

------
non-entity
I used edge for a while when I did a fresh install of windows and was too lazy
to install anything else. It was overall fine but had a few issues that
annyoed me. For one a ton of sites or malls would block me from using an
"unsupported browser". I'm sure the sites would have worked just fine, and
that it was lazy whitelisting of UA strings and not Edge's fault itself. It
also still seemed to crash a lot for me, although not as much as when it was
first released. And, of course, there was that article posted on here a few
weeks(?) back that mentioned how edge has the most intrusive "telemetry".

------
garkin
I personally use Edge almost daily for their awesome in-browser TTS and
reading-mode feature. I inspire you to try it.

For general purpose Google account integration convinience grip is yet
overweights their constant effort to ruin UI and extensions. Also Edge App
Store still lacks uMatrix, but already has uBlock Origin.

~~~
catalogia
> _I personally use Edge almost daily for their awesome in-browser TTS and
> reading-mode feature. I inspire you to try it._

Why should I use Edge for that, instead of Firefox (which also has TTS in its
reader-mode)?

~~~
garkin
I just tested it. They use built-in Microsoft Sam as TTS (at least in
Windows), old and awfull.

TTS in the Edge is pretty close to the bleeding edge. It's good. Both English
and Russian. And Edge is still a gorgeus Chromium without recent time UI
degradations and without ad- and privacy- blocker intolerant management.

Personally i have a prejudice against Firefox for subjectively poor and ugly
UI and old scars from their rendering issues.

~~~
catalogia
Well you'd not catch me dead using Windows to be frank. MacOS has the best
offline TTS available to consumers right now, so that's what I use for TTS.

------
danso
Another datapoint: according to analytics.usa.gov [0], and ignoring Safari
(which counts iOS users), Edge (4.1%) is the 3rd most used browser behind IE
11 at 4.7%. Firefox is at 3.5%.

[0] [https://analytics.usa.gov/](https://analytics.usa.gov/)

------
kazinator
Another Windows thing Microsoft needs help from Google now is multilingual
input.

The Japanese IME in Windows 10 is borked. The solution? Install Google
Japanese Input, never look back.

(It must be working somehow in Japanese Windows 10 sold in Japan, but it's
broken in English Windows.)

------
vijaybritto
Why is it so hard for a mammoth company like MS to maintain their own
browser?! Is this because gaining market share with an alternate browser is
simply impossible?

~~~
err4nt
These technologies are very deep, and the pool of developers with the skill,
time, desire, and understanding to hack on these things is a very shallow pool
to pull from. It seems like a lot of companies working on browsers are under-
staffed so we seem to be experiencing more cross-company teamwork and
collaboration than ever before - which is _great_ for standards and pushing us
forward at a faster pace than before!

~~~
chrisseaton
I would have thought most developers would absolutely jump at the chance to
work on something as core as a browser! Having Chrome or Safari on your resume
seems like it'd be golden.

------
butz
Microsoft Edge is now the second most-used desktop browser ... to download
alternative browser after installing Windows. First is still IE11.

------
purple-again
Side effect from all the Windows VM's spun up by IT departments trying to lift
and shift into the cloud ASAP due to COVID?

------
DigitallyFidget
Meanwhile I'm using Vivaldi, which has been a great experience ever since
leaving Firefox behind.

------
Neil44
It was bound to happen, since it's been the default on W10 for so long now.

------
formercoder
Anyone else anecdotally notice that Edge's power usage is much better than
Chrome's?

------
chrisseaton
I can't understand how Safari is on only 3.6%. Why aren't all those iPhone
users pushing it up?

~~~
taffer
The article is about desktop browsers.

------
tssva
Mozilla lost any chance of me switching to Firefox the moment they spammed me
about switching. Something Google, Microsoft nor Apple have done regarding
their browsers.

~~~
the_other
Your loss.

