
All-You-Can-Fly Airline Plies the California Coast - Stupendous
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/business/airline-banks-on-a-buffet-style-business-model.html
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natnat
It's funny that a huge part of the reason that a business like this exists is
the TSA. If flying commercial airlines didn't require an hour and a half of
waiting in line for security and a fair dose of humiliation, I think people
would be much more willing to fly from SFO to LAX.

Instead, we're running inefficient propeller planes for short distances and
really high prices, and people are treating it like it's some amazing new
innovation.

~~~
vacri
I was in California in 2009 and found it weird that there was no daily train
between LA and SF - it only runs (ran?) every second day. The day I left, I
had to get a bus to Bakersfield to connect to the train.

The other striking thing was train travel in the South being heavily
subsidised - huge distances travelled for not much money, with power for your
laptop and lots of space to move around. If the train schedule was appropriate
for you, you'd be crazy to fly instead.

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britta
The Coast Starlight ([http://www.amtrak.com/coast-starlight-
train](http://www.amtrak.com/coast-starlight-train)) has been running once a
day between LA and Oakland for years, with a connecting bus to SF - here's its
schedule: [http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/935/314/Coast-Starlight-
Schedule...](http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/935/314/Coast-Starlight-
Schedule-071513,0.pdf) It takes about 12 hours if there are no delays. It's a
lovely and relaxing trip, but that's a long time compared to flying or
driving.

If you want to leave SF/Oakland later than 9 am or LA later than 10 am, you
have to take some long bus connections (which aren't very fun) and the San
Joaquin or Pacific Surfliner.

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kaybe
Would that trip be interesting for a high-speed train connection? It's
approximately 600 km (380 miles), that should be possible in about 3 hours.
The terrain doesn't look too bad either at first glance.

~~~
Sanddancer
As was stated, it's being worked on. It also runs into one of those things
that a lot of people from outside of California don't realize about the state.
There are a /lot/ of mountain ranges. The Starlight itself meanders along and
through various bits of the coastal ranges of California, which, while
absolutely gorgeous, leads to a path that's not particularly amenable to high
speed travel.

So, the state needs to build new trackage through a 3000 ft (~1km) pass
getting out of LA, and more trackage through a 1500 ft pass getting out of the
SF area in order to use the much more straight and speedy right-of-way going
through the middle of the state. Once that's done, and the rights of way along
the corridor are upgraded, high speed rail will run between the points. Just
gonna take another 15-20 years to do so.

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OldSchool
I've never quite mentally reconciled the idea that people whose industry is
built on telecommunication should have to spend hours and days traveling to
talk about it.

~~~
ApertureHour
I suspect that might change in the near future if telepresence with large, 4K
screens showing life-sized, full body representations of people became
commonplace. It seems like a lot of the necessity of in-person conferences and
meetings is still things like realistic eye contact and subtle body language
cues.

~~~
justincormack
No, lower profit margins will kill it. With current enterprise software
pricing you can afford lots of flights as part of the sales process. With SAAS
type models you can't.

~~~
GFischer
There will always be software that is worth the equivalent of millions of
dollars (at least for the foreseeable future).

Maybe you can build a SAAS equivalent to SAP that puts it out of business...
but companies will want a HumanBrainSimulatron (R) or a perfect weather
forecaster or whatever the next complex software is, which will still be
multimillion dollars' worth.

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jpatokal
Fascinating! Although, as a cautionary data point, selling "all you can fly"
didn't work too well for American Airlines:

[http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/05/business/la-
fi-0506-...](http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/05/business/la-
fi-0506-golden-ticket-20120506)

~~~
United857
That was because the people were allowed to fly with a "guest", and started
selling their seats to strangers in violation of the rules.

With this airline, everyone will be required to buy a membership -- no
"guests".

~~~
russell_h
Also, this seems to be month-to-month as opposed to a lifetime deal.
"Unlimited" for a month could be true. "Unlimited" for life isn't.

~~~
rdl
I wonder how the duration-limited "all you can fly" JetBlue deals worked out
for them.

"Unlimited airpasses" for international visitors to places like Southeast Asia
are pretty common, combined with long-haul international flights, too.

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rdl
It's interesting that he ran the numbers and picked single engine aircraft for
safety (but with two pilots); this seems correct from what I've seen of small
aircraft stats. If you look at successful dispatch rate, it's even more clear
that single engine is the way to go.

I'd do something like this if they covered Seattle, SF, Reno, Portland, and
central-WA (datacenters) and central-OR (datacenters). Throw in SB/LA/SD/LV
for extra fun, but the northern areas are what I care about much much more.

~~~
neurotech1
Light twin piston engine aircraft have can be difficult to control on one
engine, and may not even maintain altitude in some conditions. A PC-12 uses a
PT6 turboprop engine, which is one of the most reliable turboprop engines
available.

Light twin piston aircraft are not exactly cheap either.

~~~
rdl
Indeed; I've had this conversation (in favor of a Grand Caravan) with lots of
crappy C-23 (Shorts 330) military pilots. And the "oh, let's put fuel above
the passenger compartment in a plane we're flying in a warzone" question, too.
The C-12 King Airs were somewhat better, but tiny. I'd take a PC-12 > King Air
anyday, and a Caravan or Grand Caravan in general (due to superior cargo
capability, even at the cost of range), but that's my preference.

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ballard
Very cool. Virgin started with one only plane. SA's present niche is quite
different. The bottom line is that it's doable considering others still exist.

Tip: Virgin LHR counter is well run and I look forward to stopping by for that
reason. It's not about promoting a particular brand as a good way of doing
life... leave the world a better place.

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JHof
I'm a PC-12 pilot in the Northeast and have been watching this company since
it was little more than an idea and a Twitter account (original name Plane
Red). Their marketing and execution is so much better than other small
airlines. I'd love to see a service like this come to the NYC area. So many
people spend far more than this per month on tickets to go to Martha's
Vineyard, Nantucket, the Hamptons and coastal Maine.

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hkarthik
If they could find a way to drop the monthly cost of this to around $500, this
could potentially make working in the Bay Area more viable for a lot of
people.

If you could shave $500 off your monthly rent or mortgage by living in a
coastal CA city and just flying in to work in Silicon Valley or SF, I think a
lot more people would be willing to sign up. The service would essentially pay
for itself.

~~~
justinlloyd
I am on the waiting list, depending on limits and schedule of the service I
will be using this about three or four times a week to do a daily commute
between my condo in Los Angeles and eBay in San Jose. It works out to about
what I would pay for a Bay area shared room but I get to come home each
evening and see my cats and dog. And my wife.

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cmbaus
If they can make this work in Tahoe that would be great. A few commercial
airlines have tried service to South Lake Tahoe, but the weather has made
service too unpredictable. It might make sense to use Reno or Minden NV
airports to access Tahoe.

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FollowSteph3
It's like web hosting. You have to be careful not to overload the servers, or
in this case planes, so that paying the monthly is not worth it.

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lnanek2
I know a lot of consultants who fly every weekend. If this had better city
coverage it would actually be cost effective.

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glasz
great place for the dhs to blow shit up and give the tsa reason to fuck
around. i hear they're policing highways already. about time for these
assholes to expand to europe. it's more likely i get struck by lightning but
i'm so afraid of terrorists! come grope me!

