
Low-income students can soon get federal aid to attend coding schools - michaelrkn
https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/18/low-income-students-will-soon-be-able-to-get-federal-aid-to-attend-coding-bootcamps/
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ctvo
This reminds me of those University of Phoenix MBAs a few years ago.

I don't know what it'll take to fix higher education in the US, but opening up
public funding options to for profit companies that already have issues on
placement and average salary statistics[0] doesn't look like it's the right
approach.

0 - [http://www.businessinsider.com/coding-bootcamps-have-no-
stan...](http://www.businessinsider.com/coding-bootcamps-have-no-standard-
measurements-for-job-placement-rates-2015-10)

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brogrammernot
This is not a good idea.

I've been part of the hiring committees at a handful of companies and there is
a big difference between coding schools and real degrees.

That being said, I've yet to interview a candidate who attending a coding
school who truly understands software development at any acceptable level to
be hired. Maybe for basic web design and very limited front end work these
people will find jobs but I fear they will be severely disappointed when
trying to make a career.

~~~
whytaka
I've recently taught myself programming and am now working as an apprentice at
a local web firm. Can you point to some specific concepts you think I might
have missed?

~~~
brogrammernot
So, there is a difference between a boot camper and someone who is self
taught. I started out as self-taught, and have since then taken
courses/advanced studies to further my own knowledge.

The path you're on is very similar to the one I took. Been an apprentice or Jr
developer is a smart, smart path to take.

Concepts that I've seen missed in recent code interviews: \- I know "Node",
but what is the V8 engine? I've seen this a lot as Node has gotten more and
more popular. It's critical, at least in my opinion, to understand at the bare
minimum how Node works under the hood. Writing a few web apps with a basic set
of Node APIs is great, but do you actually understand what is going on? \-
AngularJS. Have you looked at the source code? Do you understand how
directives work? Can you explain how the digest loop works? Can you explain
the use cases for two-way binding? Why wouldn't you need two-way binding? \-
VanillaJS - Can you write out some basic ways to manipulate the DOM without
the use of jQuery or another framework? Do you understand how event listeners
and event propagation works?

Those are just some of things that come to my mind right away.

There's also a point to be made that it is easier to trust that someone who
spent 4 years in coursework is committed to the career versus someone who took
3-5 months doing a boot camp.

~~~
zappo2938
You might like What Do I Need to Know to Ace a JavaScript Interview?[1] I have
been learning JavaScript on my own for about 1 year now. I put together that
list of links as I reviewed for a coding job. I had bookmarked a lot of things
I thought were important or I kept returning to. They didn't offer me a job
coding JavaScript. At the end of 2 hour interview they said they would hire me
if I took a month or two to learn Go. (If you are in South Florida, Delivery
Dudes is hiring Go coders BTW) I love JavaScript and several months later I'm
still not getting paid. I regret not taking that job now, but I want to finish
what I started.

I can't imagine being useful to anyone with a 3-5 months boot camp.

[1] [https://github.com/adam-s/js-interview-
review](https://github.com/adam-s/js-interview-review)

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Kephael
Why does the government think software development jobs can be done by the
equivalent of people who have gone to a trade school for one semester? I don't
see the government pushing finance career or lawyer boot camps. I wonder how
the DOE even made the decision of which boot camps to partner with.

~~~
jnem
Cool, can you point me to some lawyer bootcamps, this whole time I thought
that was a heavily regulated industry that required degrees and a bar exam to
be qualified. Really stoked to let my wife know she didn't need to take those
CPA exams to practice too.

~~~
Kephael
My understanding is you can actually take the bar exam in several states
without having attended law school. Regulations can always be changed, I don't
see groups or the government pushing to liberalize training requirements and
allow boot camps to train someone to take these tests.

~~~
akiselev
It varies state by state but yes, in some states you can take the BAR exam
without attending law school. In California, for example, you have to
apprentice for a practicing lawyer for four years and have five years
experience practicing (18 hrs per week) before you can take the test

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jacknews
Where are the grants to train financial traders, corporate lawyers, C-suite
"captains of industry", politicians, etc? Or simply doctors, engineers, etc?

Those groups don't want to be inundated with new recruits, depressing their
salaries, not to mention standards, you say?

I see.

~~~
flukus
Lawyers, doctors and engineers all have strong unions (even if they don't call
themselves one).

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back_beyond
As "coding" becomes increasingly mainstream, tools and automation grow in
sophistication, Moore's Law dwindles, and problems become exhausted and are
not replaced (e.g., move the entire economy onto the web) - I worry that this
profession is overhyped. These kids might be late to the race.

~~~
back_beyond
Indeed, even late to the party.

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syk26
I think this is a step in the right direction to address the issue of computer
science education and/or coding classes only being accessible to kids from
privileged backgrounds. Ultimately, if this is successful (and I know I'm
wishing too much at this point), it can lead to greater diversity in the tech
workforce or even in academia.

~~~
LizardLarry
Why in the fuck is diversity a "thing"?

Algorithimic and behavioral diversity maybe. But this bullshit kumbaya
bullshit where team composition has to reflect a skin color ratio that's
suitable for an ad exec's eye is fucking worthless.

I've been "lower income". I've been fucking homeless. You're training
technical monkey to do technical jobs. No problem with that but don't fucking
be "greater diversity blah blah blah".

~~~
syk26
I think there are merits to diversity but of course there are also merits to a
fully meritocratic system. But I think the ideal situation would be having a
fully meritocratic system that has this "diversity" attribute. I feel as
though that is a step up from a fully meritocratic system that has virtually
no diversity.

Also, perhaps having diversity would allow for the development of new types of
products and services in the tech industry that the "privileged" have no
interest in. At least that's what people who call for diversity claim.

~~~
flukus
I also agree that there are merits to diversity, it's just that the negatives
of forced diversity outweigh the positives.

~~~
syk26
Yea I can see that. It does make me question every government policy or
"handout" that aims to promote diversity, but I'm wondering whether this
government policy of providing financial aid to low income students is one
that is "forcing" diversity. Could someone clarify for me?

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g8oz
Here come the grifters! The U.S really needs a counterpart to the U.K's Ofsted
agency to do summary executions of substandard education providers.

~~~
xemdetia
It's hard to ignore that after all that's come out against for-profit private
schools in the US really exploiting these sort of aid programs. Then they have
a third-party rating agency coming in and that's supposed to make us all feel
better. Will saturating this market make it any better? Are we already at
capacity for meaningful classes into potentially meaningful jobs? It's too
hard to say.

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angersock
Oh great more developer puppy mills, except this time secured by the federal
government!

What a great handout.

~~~
bertiewhykovich
Worried about your job, angersock?

~~~
bdcravens
I don't think any professional developer is worried about losing their job to
a bootcamper who hasn't had at least two years of OJT.

~~~
flukus
I am actually. I've seen many jobs go to cheaper on-shored labour with no
regard for quality or technical ability. I've seen many millions of dollars
pissed away and removed from the investment pool.

That money could have been spent on competent people and the investors may
have even come out with something to show for it.

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omegaworks
Prepare for the rapid inflation of coding school tuitions.

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flukus
Is anyone actually hiring people solely on them having completed a coding
bootcamp?

~~~
bdcravens
Yes, the coding bootcamps hire them as instructors so they can keep their
marketing claims about job placement true.

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emjoes1
Just what low income students are looking for.

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helthanatos
So more discrimination. Yes!

