

Ask HN: Salary Valuation - Houston

I need the advice from those who are far more experienced than I am at salary valuations.<p>Background: I was hired in late February of this year as the copywriter for an Internet marketing company that has seen a lot of success since its inception last year. Since then, my responsibilities have expanded to that of what I'd consider the responsibilities of a product manager.<p>I'm essentially the jack of all trades for the company. I can pretty much play the role of anyone in the company in the off chance they are out of the office, although my main responsibility remains as a copywriter. However, lately I've been given the ability to hire people as I deem fit to complete projects. Next week, I sit down with my boss (the CEO) and his partner to discuss putting me on salary (I work hourly right now), and I don't know how to go about valuating my skills and the responsibilities I've been given.<p>Any help would be greatly appreciated. By the way, I'm 19.
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patio11
You don't get what your skills are worth. You don't get what your
responsibilities are worth. You get what you can negotiate. This is the most
important lesson about salary.

Your negotiating position is stronger because you're difficult to replace and
weaker because the comparable for your salary is your hourly wage. Your bosses
have had the milk for nearly free; any price for the cow is going to look
expensive by comparison. (For example, if you're currently working for $10/hr
and step up to $60k -- which is aggressive but, hey, key employees should be
aggressive -- that would cost them on the order of five times more, when
factoring in taxes and benefits.)

Oh yeah, benefits. You're 19, so you may not get the importance of this now,
but professional white-collar workers either a) get them or b) have an hourly
many times what you're making right now so that they can buy them for
themselves. Typically this includes healthcare, some retirement option with
employer match, paid vacation, and such other perks as may be standard or
negotiated.

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Houston
Thanks for commenting, patio11. Appreciate it!

Without trying to sound like an arrogant blow-hard, I would say I'm one of the
most vital employees in the company bar none. As the months pass by, I
continue to take on more & more responsibilities & today my boss pretty much
confided in me that other than him, I am THE creative force in the company.

When I go into the meeting, I don't want to come off cocky. I want to come off
confident, which is why I'm trying to gather as much info as I can about this
stuff.

I really think the benefits thing should be factored into the equation. It
makes sense, right? I know benefits are necessary. But, how do you quantify
that? Just do some research into what it'd cost to buy those benefits myself
and factor it in?

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pbreit
Sorry, I'm going to splash some cold water on this situation. Except for
senior management and engineering, pretty much everyone is replaceable. As
others have suggested, your currently pay will serve as baseline and it's hard
to think anoff would be mre than 20 or 30% above that. But I have two tips for
you: 1) ask for a review after 6 months at which point you might be able to
earn a raise. 2) if this is a tech startup that you think has a lot of
potential and stock options are a component of pay, it might be smart to trade
a few k in salary for more than a few k in addiional stock.

~~~
petervandijck
Baseline isn't so much current pay, but what others in the same company are
making (if that applies). That's what makes them think "we can hire someone to
do this for X".

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evanrmurphy
You're in a good position to negotiate for things other than money right now
too. Consider what is really valuable to you. Maybe:

1\. You're struggling to pay the bills or want to save up. Bargain for the
highest salary you possibly can.

2\. You're doing well financially; what you really wish is that you had more
time for your relationships or to work on your own projects. Negotiate to have
extra vacation time, to only work 4 days a week, or whatever you like.

3\. Your commute sucks or you don't enjoy being in the office. Negotiate for
the ability to telecommute twice a week. (This is also a decent way to address
#2, because you have more control over your time when you telecommute.)

These are just a few possibilities. It could literally be anything you want
that they can provide. Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

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adyus
This subject is very relevant to me, as I'm in a similar position.

I accepted a "full-time freelance" position in a hard time in my life for
$15/hr, no benefits, no contract of any kind (contractor). I'm the only
developer at an 8-month old, online-only print services provider, so I'd say
I'm a pretty important cog.

Since I accepted the "job" I fixed the mess that the original (cheap) web
agency made of the site, redesigned the entire UX of ordering prints (now with
cropping! sliders! previews!) and will be launching a new e-commerce site that
I built from scratch for them in the last couple months. I do server admin,
design, development, UX, API, as well as occasional customer service with a
smile.

What would the average market price be for the value I can bring to a startup
or small business? What are my skills and services really worth? To rephrase
that, what hourly range would someone with my skills and knowledge normally
charge?

~~~
rb2k_
Just as a note: this will probably depend on where you live

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adyus
Alas, nowhere near the centers of IT, but South Florida...

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petervandijck
What you are your work are "worth" is of little importance.

The ONLY way you are going to get a significant salary raise (where
significant is defined as more than they're planning to give you), is if you
are ready to walk.

So.

1\. Have a number in mind. (ie. what are others similar in the same company
making?).

2\. They'll offer you less than that.

3\. Say: I'm truly sorry, but I can't accept that offer, it would be hurting
myself, so I have to respectfully resign. (Don't bluff, mean it)

That's really the best way.

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actionbrandon
I agree, and also fight for more tangible responsibilities. No offense, but
its hard to sell a business owner on why your copy writing is worth X-more
dollars than some other guys. Sales or code or ideas that have been
implemented with a tangible profit are helpful when asking for more money.

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dustingetz
things that determine your salary: 1) perceived value of your contributions 2)
how much you could make if you left, weighted by the chance that you actually
leave

even if boss's perceived value of you is really high, if you don't have the
external credibility to actually get another job at the salary you seek, you
don't have much bargaining power.

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Houston
I know there's not some algorithm to determining my salary, but is there a
rule of thumb for figuring it out.

Would an average of 1 & 2 result in a good valuation? I can figure out the
value of my contribution almost to a T with some things, but there are other
things that are a little harder to put a definite value to, i.e the copy I
write for our websites.

I want to come into the meeting with research at the ready. And, thanks for
bringing up the external credibility aspect. I didn't consider that, so I will
have to factor that into everything.

~~~
dustingetz
well, your self-valuation is 2, and your bosses valuation of you is 1.
unfortunately, economics dictates that only your bosses valuation matters.
willingness and ability to quit for another job is how you shift the economics
in your favor.

if i was your boss, i'd offer you 1, with just enough padding to keep your
morale up. However, as you continue to grow, your external credibility
increases, which should grow your salary rapidly towards your true value.

how did it go?

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chrisbennet
Have you considered the option of starting your own internet marketing
business?

