
Daydreams Shape Our Sense of Self - dnetesn
http://nautil.us/blog/daydreams-shape-your-sense-of-self
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riskneutral
This is a disturbingly misguided exercise in Western psychology. If you think
that the endless stream of thoughts in your mind is your self, then you have
not realized your true self. When we are day dreaming, we are in a kind of
dream, which means we are not awake and not in the present moment. This can be
highly destructive, for example if you are constantly day dreaming when you
are around your partner or your children, then even though you are physically
present you are not really there for them and that can have long term
consequences for relationships and development. The way to break the cycle is
through meditation.

In his books, the Buddhist monk Thich Nhat Hanh describes a cartoon he saw
depicting the Western philosopher Descartes raising one finger in the air and
declaring “I think, therefore I am.” In the background a horse is depicted
saying, “You think, therefor you are what?” Thich Nhat Hanh goes on to assert
that Descartes should have said, “I think too much, and therefore I am not in
the present moment.”

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adfm
I’m no Buddhist scholar and think highly of Buddhism, but didn’t Siddhārtha
Gautama leave his wife and child on his path to enlightenment? Appreciate the
perspective and agree you’re not present when you daydream, but your example
might confuse its intended audience. To me, it says, “Do as I say, not as I
do.”

~~~
riskneutral
Yes he did, and I am not a scholar either. I will just say that the path is
not something to be debated, it is something to be experienced directly.

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thecupisblue
This is true, and one of the reason why people lack a sense of self these days
- we're too deep into distractions to really daydream. We're constantly
bombarding our self with information to process and think about without having
time to ponder about our life and self only with ourself. That manifests as
lack of goals, visions, decisions, as we're not sure what we want for
ourselves.

~~~
kalado
I don't think these are mutually exclusive. I think people can daydream
without reflecting on that and without learning anything.

I think that is exactly the point the article is trying to make. Help people
get some benefit from daydreaming.

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kalado
I have aphantasia and this seems quite obvious to me. Although I wouldn't say
it shapes ourself but just emphasizes what is on your mind, where you would
like to see yourself, preparing yourself. You can think about how you might
act in a specific situation or reaffirm some beliefs.

Negative daydreams also shows you parts of yourself and your environment that
do not align with your worldview or experiences that you haven't let go off
emotionaly yet.

But the underlying feeling and thoughts are there anyway, no matter if you
daydream or not.

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faceplanted
Is aphantasia is a recent discovery or something? I've only started hearing
about it here and on reddit in the last year-ish.

It's super interesting since it seems so crazy that you can be incapable of
picturing thing, and also because some people told me I might have it in a
conversation when I mentioned that I don't tend to picture things like the bar
people walk into in the man walks into a bar joke format and can't draw even
slightly, but I know that I don't have it because I _can_ picture those things
but just don't.

~~~
chousuke
I think it goes both ways. I don't really understand what people mean when
they say they "picture" something. What's the sensation like, compared to not
picturing something?

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kordlessagain
Some people, like my wife, can recall both sound and imagery from a movie
they've seen. Not all movies, not all scenes, but yeah, video and audio feeds
from historic memories...i.e. echoic memory and iconic memory recall to the
point one is conscious of seeing something from the mind, in the mind's eye.

As far as I can tell, this ability to visualize and hear things in the mind is
entirely dependent on the individual's own thinking process and therefore
highly varied. Many can see family members in the mind, but a few can see many
images for a single family members (thousands I was told from one person of
images of his wife in mind). Those who pray don't see as many images, or enjoy
strong consistent imagery when they do. Those who create see their creations
in mind and can change them. This creative process is typically called
"visualization" but seeing one's parents in mind uses the same process.

The Pineal gland appears to be somewhat responsible for these images, but
there isn't much info about the Pineal being the mind's eye as a hard proven
scientific fact
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pineal_gland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pineal_gland).
It's more a belief of many cultures, if anything.

Many, even aphants, report seeing imagery while falling asleep (when the
visual consciousness is shutting down):
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia)

~~~
chousuke
I do experience hypnagogia sometimes. I dream very rarely though (a couple
times a year, maybe).

If I really stretch the definition of "imagery" I can sort of invoke the
feeling that I'm seeing something, but your description of visualization is
way too vivid to match that. I literally can't imagine it :P I can't really
hear things either unless it's a very recent experience, and even then it's
more like the "feeling" of hearing something rather than anything really
auditory.

The note about prayer is interesting, but I've been non-religious my entire
life and I've never uttered a prayer with any sincerity.

If you asked me to describe my family to you, I probably couldn't do so with
any sort of accuracy. I could probably tell you their most recent hair colour
and maybe some very generic features, but I can't recall for example anyone's
eye colour besides my own.

I gave a shot at trying to learn to draw at some point, and made some progress
towards being able to replicate what I see, but drawing always seemed to be a
process of trial and error, since I'd have no idea what my marks would end up
looking like before I put them on paper. I did enjoy it when I really got into
the drawing process, but the good parts weren't really good enough to outweigh
the massive stress and frustration it usually caused.

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qntty
See also: you can't be good at something that you don't think about in the
shower,
[http://www.paulgraham.com/top.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/top.html)

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onemoresoop
We should note the distinction between natural moments of daydreaming (one
minute here and there) and the daydreaming as an escape from reality where one
lives in their fantasy land. I think the former is harmless and may actually
help the brain sort out some thoughts. The latter is obviously pathologic.

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amalag
Poor people buying lottery tickets live in the daydream where they have won
the lottery and are spending their millions.

~~~
riskneutral
That sounds accurate. Day dreaming is an escape and not a good one.

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CzarnyZiutek
define: Self

