

Ask HN: .net vs .com  - icey

I know this has been asked before (it looked like a couple of years ago from searchyc.com), but I'm working on a site for which I have a GREAT .net address.<p>The problem is that the .com is not available, and the owner of the .com isn't interested in selling the domain (or I'm bad at trying to negotiate it... but he didn't even seem interested in talking numbers). The .com version of the site is not being used - it currently just lists an empty directory (and has for the past 9 months or so that I've been watching it).<p>Am I going to regret pushing forward with the .net address, or should I try to think of some different names that end in .com?<p>I'm still writing software and tweaking the model quite a bit, so I'm afraid I can't really mention the domain name yet; I hope it's possible to speak about this in generalities.<p>I will say the target audience is more the Facebook / Youtube / Myspace crowd than it is the Slashdot / reddit / YC crowd.<p>[Edit: Just a quick note; if I had been able to find any .com names that were even 60% as strong as I feel the .net name is for this particular idea, I would have just grabbed it and moved on. I know de.licio.us did fine, but I just feel they were targeting much more technically savvy users than I will be.]
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russell
First register the .net name while you are thinking. It's only $7 or so.

.com is better than .net because .net is below the radar for most people. Have
you thought of .org It doesnt mean nonprofit. It was set up for everyone else
not in the military/industrial complex. Most people are aware of .org.

The going price for parked or low volume domains is around $15K Maybe an offer
in that range will get his attention.

Someone in another thread made the point that most people will come to your
site via search and your real name is not important. I dont really subscribe
to that argument because people tell their friends without giving a proper
link, say on the phone.

I thing you will regret the conflict if you go the .net route. Find another
catchy name or add another word to the name you are already considering.
TheCatchyName vs CatchyName. Remember catchy names are rarely as good as you
think they are.

Final piece of advice. Do a trademark search for your name. (tm) is weak but
(R) is very strong and you should avoid the conflict.

~~~
tjic
I think that this was unfairly down-voted - there's a ton of great information
here.

~~~
axod
>> "The going price for parked or low volume domains is around $15K Maybe an
offer in that range will get his attention."

I wouldn't spend $15k on a domain unless that amount of money is small change
to you. Also I think that's an insanely high figure in any event.

~~~
russell
I based the 15k price of transactions that friends were involved in One had a
good name he wasnt using, the other had plenty of cash. Other considerations
show up: in calif. it is very difficult to find a good company name to
register. Combine that with the difficuly of finding a domain name, $15K may
not be so much.

In general I agree with you, $15K could be put to a lot better use.

------
pg
_Am I going to regret pushing forward with the .net address, or should I try
to think of some different names that end in .com?_

Yes. Since 1996 it has always seemed that all the good names were taken, and
yet it has always been possible to find ones that weren't. All your name has
to be is acceptable. Google.com is not a great name; the reason it seems good
now is the associations we have with it.

------
axod
Choose a different name. There are still tons available. Let the domain whores
hold on to their "Premium four letter .com!!" names.

Just look harder and you'll find the gem.

(I spent about a day and found mibbit.(com|net|org) and I'm still pleased
enough with the name).

~~~
dood
How do you go about finding names? I've looked hard, and wasted a lot of time
- I think that part of my brain must be missing or broken or something. I
think mibbit is a great name btw.

~~~
qeorge
I'd highly recommend GoDaddy's Domain Name Aftermarket (tdnam.com). I've
gotten a ton of good .coms from there, one of which we recently sold for
$35,000.

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nolanbrown23
There are some good sources out there to try and find a domain name.
<http://www.domainpigeon.com/> is a good if you're looking for a random name.

To answer you're question, you should absolutely get a .com. In my experience,
the .net name eventually becomes a pain in the butt for branding and user
acquisition, especially with the .com having only a blank directory (a user
will just think your site is dead).

It's also one of the first questions you'll get when pitching to investors.
Why couldn't you get the .com? You're answer so far has been that you couldn't
negotiate it. That sends the wrong message.

Cut your losses and just find a .com.

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zaius
Regarding the guy holding the .com - Just because there's no website there
doesn't mean it isn't being used. Think email.

~~~
antiismist
Upvoted because that's the situation with me and my 4 letter domain name. I
was able to buy it for ~$250 in 1999. Anyone know how much they go for these
days?

~~~
axod
As far as I've seen, pretty much all "premium 4 letter domain names!!!" are
held by people like you.

If no one has offered you a lot of money in the last 10 years, it's likely
worthless IMHO

You might get really lucky and be able to sell it to another domain
speculator, or someone that _really_ _really_ needs it.

What's the last big website to use a 4 letter .com name?

~~~
antiismist
>> ...people like you

Hey, I take offense to being lumped in with domain squatters, because I have
the domain name for purely personal reasons and I would never sell it. I was
just curious about how much they go for, that's all.

(My first name is Idoh and I own idoh.com)

~~~
jmatt
_I would never sell it._

Even if it ended up being worth a fortune? I guess I would be hard pressed to
sell my name domains too. But for enough money maybe.

~~~
antiismist
Sure, I can envision some scenarios where I'd sell. I haven't gotten even one
offer yet, so I don't think anyone will ever make an offer that is in the
ballpark of what I'd consider.

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falsestprophet
Short answer: yes, .net addresses will not be taken as seriously or remembered
as easily.

Long answer:

But if tell us about your business and tell us your .net name, we can help you
find alternatives.

If you don't the domain indexed by Google you can protect it with
<http://mailhide.recaptcha.net/> and share a link.

For example:
[http://mailhide.recaptcha.net/d?k=01s0ZBjDCRkIF5eU3zPiVtcQ==...](http://mailhide.recaptcha.net/d?k=01s0ZBjDCRkIF5eU3zPiVtcQ==&c=f7zTzDxlblhc7MzCIA-D7tRg09J05aIamBZdABmQ_x5aoqbHbCigAf168BXfxpoR)

~~~
icey
You're right, I think this will be much easier with more information.

I'm working on a "for fun" gambling site - the domain I have is gambool.net; I
suppose it's mostly good if you're a gambler (i.e. you know what gambool is).

~~~
russell
I didn't know, so I had to look it up. In the spirit of helping, I toss out
"WildGambool".

~~~
jpwagner
www.1truegamboolean.com is available

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aaronsw
I purchased watchdog.net, which I thought was a great name, but almost no one
ever remembers it correctly.

~~~
abstractbill
Besides being a .net, this has the problem that "...dog dot..." is kinda hard
to say.

------
matt1
As someone who has looked through of thousands of domain names I can tell you
that there are still plenty of decent names left. The trick, as I'm sure
you've figured out by now, is finding them. If you took the approach I
originally took, you've probably spent a few hours on AjaxWhois trying to find
something that works for you and your site.

To help alleviate the headache, I created <http://www.domainpigeon.com>, which
lists around 45K available domain names (and more are added daily). Most are
not very good. That's just the nature of the game, but if you're willing to
look, you'll find that there are many good names still available.

More than 500 have already been registered, so it can't be that bad :)

<http://www.domainpigeon.com/domains/registered>

Hope it helps.

~~~
icey
I'm one of the few "paying" customers of domainpigeon you've got, actually. I
bought a premium membership (or whatever you were calling it) around when you
launched, just for this purpose.

I check it out almost every day; it's a great site!

~~~
matt1
That just made my day, and it's been a good day.

(See <http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10216713-2.html>)

Thanks for being patient with all the changes!

------
kineticac
Everything else people have said is good! One other note, if you look on the
iphone keyboard while you're typing in a URL on safari, there's a ".com" key
to finish off the URL. Just a thought. One day we'll have keyboards with a
.com attached to it right next to the return/enter key.

~~~
pbhj
Erm, we do it's called the Ctrl key. Ctrl-Enter adds ".com" and submits an
entry in the address bar. Works in FF, Op, IE (IIRC) but not Konq, not sure
about Saf.

Ctrl-Shift-Enter does ".org".

Or was that a "whoosh" moment?

~~~
kineticac
that's neat!

------
tlrobinson
I always end up typing slideshare.com instead of slideshare.net (the real one)
even though I _know_ it's .net

So, go for a .com

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sachinag
The problem is that if you're successful with the .net, the .com will
magically become more expensive. Given that you think it's an awesome term, it
may be a generic word for which you'd have no recourse to obtain.

That said, upcoming did OK with .org and SlideShare did ok with .net for a
while. I'd recommend going with another .com, but the choice of TLD shouldn't
make or break your company.

------
csomar
choose a different name and go .com. think and think again and you'll find a
great name.

Never go for a .net or .info. When people remember, they remember only the
name and put .com in the end.

------
riobard
A side question:

Do you need to get .net/.org/.[other TLDs] when you have the .com one?

e.g. google.net redirects to google.com, but google.org is for a different
purpose.

------
icey
This is why Hacker News is so awesome - due to the amazing input from everyone
and a tremendously good suggestion from Blogimus, I've got a .com now that is
pretty great (and I'm definitely excited about).

Thank you all so much!

------
nanexcool
Just remember, since you mention del.icio.us, that it redirects to
delicious.com.

~~~
icey
It didn't used to (they didn't originally own delicious.com iirc)

~~~
nanexcool
Exactly! They bought it when they became popular. My guess is a lot of people
were typing delicious.com and they had to get it.

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vaksel
i'd get a .com first and foremost, can you do what facebook did and run as
the[greatsitename].com?

~~~
jpwagner
i don't think facebook is a [greatsitename], it was a legacy name because
Harvard and MIT had actual physical 'facebooks' for getting to know other
students in your class.

~~~
vaksel
well what I was pointing at, is that if you can't get the name you want add a
"the" in front

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fiaz
It really doesn't matter.

~~~
icey
I was pretty well camped in this school of thought as well, but I was going
through use cases in my head and it kept nagging me that the iPhone has a
".com" button on the keyboard by default when you're entering a URL. So I made
this post...

The advice has been strongly for a .com, and there have been a lot of really
good reasons as to why. (In other words, my opinion has been successfully
swayed.)

I think axod made a particularly good point with mibbit; 6 months ago I
wouldn't have ever connected the words IRC or chat with the word "mibbit", but
I do now; and I don't think I've ever forgotten the domain name.

I suppose any more people don't correlate the domain name with what it does as
much as they used to.

------
physcab
Who cares about the name. Just make sure the product is good.

~~~
jpwagner
sometimes it's very relevant.

here's a great post on bad names. my favorite: Mole Station Nursery (or maybe
Pen Island)

[http://www.fazed.org/forum/view/?id=24396&last](http://www.fazed.org/forum/view/?id=24396&last)

~~~
10ren
Some are well-known, but I hadn't seen the Italian Power Generator company. I
guess ambiguous interpretation _is_ a kind of intellectual hack.

