

A Lack Of Rigor Leaves Students 'Adrift' In College - rblion
http://www.npr.org/2011/02/09/133310978/in-college-a-lack-of-rigor-leaves-students-adrift

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zeteo
Having worked extensively as a TA in an Ivy League school, I must concur with
this analysis. It's very easy, even in the hard sciences, to get by without
doing any real work and by actually learning very little in the class. If
you're really good and put lots of work and interest in the class, you will
get an A; but so will a bunch of other people whose main qualification is
knowing how to put pressure on the teacher and the TA. If someone comes during
office hours, spends enough time, and asks the right sequence of questions,
you are practically bound by the rules and the incentives to do 90% of their
homework for them. Only exams are relatively less corrupted, but even those
are going down the drain as a rigorous method of evaluation (fake learning
disabilities, very easy problems, low proportion in overall grade etc.).

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hsmyers
Contrast this with of all things, your standard art major--- when your grade
depends entirely on the work of your mind AND HANDS, it is much harder to game
the system even if such gaming was accidental. I'm sure there has been erosion
since I worked my rear end off for each and every credit I earned, but it
still comes down to proving you've actually learned what was taught for each
studio class. Won't talk about art history, will talk about intro to
silversmithing. There is no way to fake knowledge/skill when it comes to
swinging a hammer at a piece of metal in an effort to change it's shape in a
planned and meaningful manner. Kind of a nice regression-testy sort of
thing...

~~~
spacemanaki
On the other hand, there's no way to fake your code compiling either. We had
programming exams in front of Linux shells without network access -- if it
didn't compile, you got a 0. This was CS 101 at a big state school.

Unfortunately, it wasn't actually such a great method for getting students to
learn the material...

~~~
mikecarlucci
I took a few CS classes at a liberal arts college and those exams were
miserable. 3 hours on friday nights a few times a semester. That was part of
the reason I switched from CS. Same thing; no compile no grade. And there
would be some nervous kids at the 2:45 mark.

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arctangent
Smart people will tend to succeed whether they went to university (or college,
as you call it in the USA) or not.

Those people who are smart and motivated enough to want to have an academic
career will do so.

I don't think they will care that less smart people also get an "A" on their
tests. They will go on to study for more advanced degrees while the people who
had to hustle for their grades go off to work in a convenience store or
whatever.

The real problem is that people who are not smart enough to be studying for a
degree even end up there in the first place.

In the UK it hasn't really cost much historically to spend three years getting
a degree. (This is all about to change, with fees rising to £9000 soon - still
very cheap compared to the USA.)

Many young people here in the UK have felt that it would be crazy not to go
and study a very easy degree subject for three years. It's a license to party,
with free bank loans attached as standard.

I can't help thinking that attending a university is more of a rite of passage
than a genuine learning experience for most people these days.

The tragedy is that these degrees are unlikely to make people more employable.
It would make more objective sense to start full-time work three years
earlier.

(It's late and I'm tired - apologies if the above resembles a list of bullet
points rather than an argument.)

~~~
eftpotrm
Absolutely agree.

I'm fed up with seeing a whole swathe of 'degree' coures in what many years
ago would have been a work-based apprenticeship. Hospitality and event
organising, outdoor activities leadership and so on. And does the world really
need quite so many qualified psychology graduates? Or, for that matter,
English Literature? Why, exactly, are we paying for these courses?

I was doing some grocery shopping a few months back. The young guy at the
tills was talking about saving up to go and do something-or-other with his
University friends. Three years of expensive education and a large debt, and
he's landed in a job you can get at 16 if you can nearly count.

That said, I was already rapidly concluding that degrees were of questionable
value even before the recent fee change (not exactly a tripling of the
financial burden because of the very different repayment model and possibility
for writeoffs, but still...). I'm still not at all convinced that there is
value added to your career prospects by delaying employment by 3 years and
accruing a rough year's gross salary debt. I don't doubt it makes the first
job easier to get at 21 than it would be by 18 but I've seen no evidence it
makes a substantial difference by 25.

If you want to go to Univeristy, do it and enjoy it. But for a whole swathe of
jobs it's a long way from the meal ticket that it's painted as being.

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a00021
Here's a data point (more of a regrets list/rant) from one of those adrift
students, regarding the "with college you get what you put in" view:

I completely agree with that view and I wish there was some way my particular
school would teach us how to put more effort into self-development. And let me
tell you, motivation and perseverance ARE something that can be taught. I
blame:

* my laziness - learned through earlier education

* overcompensating for childhood social awkwardness by focusing on parties and social interaction with people who's only common interests are music, alcohol and the opposite sex

* lack of a clear goal (no alumni visits that show us what we can achieve if we put effort in activities A, B, C and so on),

* an easy enough study load that I could maintain high grades, in addition to a general lack of competitiveness in the class

* lack of study groups, which are instrumental in boosting interest in certain less-than-fascinating subjects.

A few key points for current students, or "if I could go 4 years back in
time":

* balance your social circle. If you're in ICT/CS or related, don't hang out exclusively with the potheads that play PS2 games 24/7. Establish and maintain contacts with people who follow their interests in their spare time - that guy who's learning functional programming on the side, kids that are already freelancing or getting a part-time job in the field you're studying for.

* actively seek out older or already-graduated students. Don't procrastinate on doing your own case studies on who-went-where, what each skill you're studying will bring you and what are the key tips you can get from people you strive to be. Basically, get some role models and a mentor. It ain't easy, but the gains that you receive are worth the effort.

* do the research on all the factors that influence your mood and energy levels. Exercise, nutrition, social environment, etc. Optimize those, so you can be the person you want to be - high energy levels, motivation, ability to get things done and so on. That way you can avoid situations like falling into depression because "I'll just minimize social contacts, so I can focus on catching up with that internship" and subsequently fucking up the most crucial part of your education.

* knowledge is one thing, being able to put it into practice is the real skill. Knowing "something" about FP, embedded programming, security, general startup theory, freelancing and so on will mean nothing, if you can't put in the focus and dedication to actually get that first Django site, Android app, GAE site or whatever, running. Escapist information binging may bring in some useful knowledge, but without execution skills it all boils down to a "Mr. Know-it-all" cynical attitude with no real accomplishments. So start that first tutorial (even if you think you know all the stuff and you're too smart for it), and have something running.

That rant came out rather long, but being stuck in the final year of my
bachelor's, not even having a github account, blog, twitter or reputation,
being too low on self-esteem ("I have no marketable skills") to break the
anxiety barrier of applying for a mandatory graduation internship, I hope at
least one student won't (through inaction) make the same mistakes I did.

[EDIT] Proofreading, minor tweaks.

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klodolph
Not that I'm disagreeing with the article, but I find the statistical analysis
to be lacking.

The article cites the difference between seniors and freshmen as measured in
standard deviations, which would be a good way to measure these differences —
if you weren't also comparing them over time. 1 standard deviation in the
1980s, 0.5 in the 1990s, and 0.18 today.

However, if you note that college enrollment increased dramatically over the
same time period, it is reasonable to conclude that the standard deviation of
test scores now represents a larger difference in skill than it did in the
1980s. How much larger? We don't know.

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mkramlich
I also think the current traditional university system is broken. But I have a
few projects where I'm trying to help fix things. I got tired of just thinking
about it and wanted to take action. Improve the world, plus an opportunity
potentially to make a profit as well.

