
Cronk: Long-lost beverage resurrected after 120 years - pseudolus
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/03/dr-cronk-drink-canada-brewery
======
derefr
I had no idea that you could still buy sassafras commercially, let alone that
you could put it _in_ things and _sell_ those things commercially. The main
constituent of sassafras oil, safrole, is 1. a direct precursor of MDMA, and
2. has most of the same effects, though less powerfully.

Original-recipe "root beers" and "sarsaparillas" used to contain sassafras
oil; and it was the sassafras oil that lent them a lot of their unique flavor
(and "uplifting quality" as a patent medicine, in an era when cocaine was a
thing you'd find in a soda.)

The modern interpretations of both drinks, though—even from indie brewers
going for authenticity—always exclude the sassafras oil. Much to the detriment
of the flavor-profile of the drink: they're like decaf coffee with no
replacement bitterant!

I always assumed that sassafras oil had just become a controlled substance in
most countries. But maybe it was just the US where it's controlled, and nobody
had been bothering to try to brew "authentic original-recipe root
beer/sarsaparilla" anywhere else until now? (It would make sense, seeing as
those drinks weren't really a thing anywhere _other than_ North America, and
so it's only really the US and Canada where people would show much interest.)

Good on this brewer for having enough faith in the Canadian indie beer market
to brew something that very likely _can 't_ be exported to the US. Maybe it'll
draw some US tourists to come north to try it, though!

~~~
throwaway_pdp09
> safrole, is 1. a direct precursor of MDMA, and 2. has most of the same
> effects, though less powerfully.

I don't believe this (edit: point 2) is true.

As for its carcogenicity, that seemed to be 'discovered' just about the time
that the US government wanted to clamp down on it's availability.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safrole#Toxicity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safrole#Toxicity)
"Despite this, the effects in humans [of safrole] were estimated by the
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory to be similar to risks posed by
breathing indoor air or drinking municipally supplied water"

If you want an entertaining but most of all informative idea of how the US
gov't gets its policy-based evidence, this [https://thedea.org/mdma-risks-
science-and-statistics-technic...](https://thedea.org/mdma-risks-science-and-
statistics-technical-faq/mdma-ecstasy-molly-neurotoxicity-brain-damage/) is
interesting.

If you want a shorter summary, look for "shit-storm" and read from there, of
one scientist destroying another 'scientists' findings.

~~~
kortex
I too am skeptical of the psychoactivity of plain safrole. It lacks an
ethylamine, nay, any nitrogen, which is what makes virtually all analogs of
dopamine and serotonin structurally active. You kinda need that N-C-C-Ar
(aromatic: phenyl, indolyl, etc) moeity to work.

It's probably a misunderstanding by way of synedoche of sass(afrass oil) or
safrole being used as the precursur.

Most likely "sass" or "safrole" is MDA.

~~~
gavinray
I don't think Safrole in isolate is psychoactive either. Shulgin has written
extensively about the essential oils, and the closest paper to this particular
topic I can recall is _" The chemistry and psychopharmacology of nutmeg and of
several related phenylisopropylamines."_

[http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.689...](http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.689.3346&rep=rep1&type=pdf)

Nutmeg happens to be primarily composed of Safrole, Myristicin and Elemicin,
and is certainly psychoactive, but I doubt it's the Safrole.

    
    
        There are thus several possibilities by which one or more of the aromatic components might be implicated as psychotropic agents;
    
        1. One of the compounds that is present only in very small amounts may have unusually high potency,
        2. Elemicin may be a major contributor of activity, or
        3. A combination of two or more of the aromatics present may be involved.
        The three most abundant ones, myristicin, elemicin and safrole may be sufficient to account for the total activity.
    

And yes, "Sass" is the street term for MDA. Whether or not the supposed "Sass"
is actually MDA is anyone's guess.

On another note, commercial MDMA isn't generally produced from
Safrole/Isosafrole anymore. This is an idea you get by reading common, old
synths on the internet and being an armchair enthusiast ;^)

The common synthesis nowadays is through PMK glycidate bought from China.
Reflux with HCl will yield base PMK (aka MD-P2P) and one can proceed via the
normal route from there.

~~~
derefr
I'm not sure whether safrole is _psychoactive_ , but safrole oxide—noted in
several sources as being a safrole metabolite, though never a major
one—induces apoptosis in nerve cells
([https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17188719/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17188719/)).
That probably feel like... _something_. Maybe good? But probably not the
"recreational drug" kind of good. Maybe more the "smell of leaded car exhaust"
kind of good.

(Given that you'd probably get safrole oxide by having safrole inside a cell
while that cell is experiencing oxidative stress, one might infer that safrole
is playing a role here similar to a caspase zymogen: "sensitizing" the cell to
stress such that it will apoptose.)

> On another note, commercial MDMA isn't generally produced from
> Safrole/Isosafrole anymore. This is an idea you get by reading common, old
> synths on the internet and being an armchair enthusiast ;^)

And meth isn't made from pseudoephedrine any more either. In both cases, that
seems to have more to do with the fact that the government has made it hard to
acquire the reagents, than that the new route is cheaper per se. (Especially
for the small-batch synthesis that upstart gangs are fond of, where economies
of scale don't begin to apply.)

------
smcameron
The recipe:

DR. CRONK'S SARSAPARILLA BEER.

Take 1 lb. of sasafras, 4 lbs of sarsaparilla, 2 lbs. hops, 1 lb. of camomile
blows, 1 lb. of cinnamon, 5 lbs. of ginger, 1 pint of extract of sarsaparilla,
boil them all together two hours; have ready steeped half a pound of green
tea, which add, then strain into a vat or tub, and add ten galls. of molasses,
and 100 galls of water. Stir in thoroughly 1 quart of yeast, and scent to suit
your taste; let stand until fermented, then bottle for use.

Search google books for "Dr. Cronks sarsaparilla beer" and it's in "Hand Book
of Practical Receipts, or Useful Hints in Every Day Life", by "An American
Gentleman and a Lady" on p. 34. (via
[https://twitter.com/JNerissa/status/1275321511646126080](https://twitter.com/JNerissa/status/1275321511646126080)
)

~~~
zenexer
That’s a potentially dangerous recipe. Sassafras is currently banned for
commercial food production in the US, as it’s a possible carcinogen. It would
be worth doing additional research and weighing the risks before making such a
drink.

That said, plenty of other comments point out that the timing of its
indication as a carcinogen was a bit too convenient, and there are likely
other factors at play. As always, do your research before actually following
such a recipe.

One HN reader pointed out that the new beer won’t contain sassafras:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23730581](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23730581)

~~~
dylan604
If tobacco products are still legal, then banning other carcinogenic products
seems questionable at best.

~~~
chris_st
Even if we can't remove one, preventing adding another seems like a good idea.

~~~
dylan604
I can appreciate that, but that's not what I meant at all. I was referring to
the questionable nature that certain things are allowed or not in the first
place. If we're banning things solely on them being carcinogenic, then we
shouldn't let people go outside since sunlight can cause cancer.

------
teslabox
Many bottled beverages today are consumed largely because marketing convinces
people they want yellow food coloring and brominated vegetable oil (Mountain
Dew) as a source for sugar and caffeine. Other modern drinks are science-
inspired products with b-vitamins and amino acids in addition to the old
standby, caffeine. These provide the functional boost the old herbal beverages
provided.

Before caffeine, amino acids, b-vitamins, et cetra, could be synthesized,
humans got their performance-enhancing substances from plants: Kola, coffee,
tea, coca leaf, etc.

I noticed this list of ingredients from the fine submission:

> The recipe calls for sassafras, sarsaparilla, hops, chamomile, cinnamon,
> ginger, green tea and molasses, said Belding. “I think it’s going to taste
> like a spicy root beer. [...]"

Wikipedia suggests most of these ingredients have properties beyond flavor:

Sassafras:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sassafras#Traditional_medicina...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sassafras#Traditional_medicinal_uses)

Sarsaparilla:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smilax_aristolochiifolia#Medic...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smilax_aristolochiifolia#Medicinal)

Chamomile:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matricaria_chamomilla#Use_in_h...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matricaria_chamomilla#Use_in_human_medicine)

Green tea (as a source of theanine & caffeine):
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_tea#Theanine...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_tea#Theanine_and_caffeine)

Cinnamon: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnamon#Health-
related_resear...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnamon#Health-
related_research)

Ginger:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger#Research](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger#Research)

My comment on a previous submission on herbal beverages:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22958420](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22958420)

~~~
mark-r
I've noticed that Mountain Dew no longer lists brominated vegetable oil on the
list of ingredients.

------
anw
This is nice to see.

This also makes me wish that sarsaparilla and birch beer were more prevalent
compared to other soft drinks you can find in the US. Living near Amish and
Mennonite communities, I used to always have an abundance of flavorful drinks
and snacks.

Having also lived in the South and in California, there's variety but I feel
not as much. It feels as if the defaults are Coke or Fanta (whether from the
US or imported).

~~~
Zhenya
I would also love to see kvass sold in the US in more general retail. I bet
Americans would love it! It tastes like sweet dark beer (at least to me).

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kvass](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kvass)

~~~
krasin
Seconding Kvass.

Note: I found that most of the varieties sold in the US are much sweeter than
those in Eastern Europe. That's killing the taste of it.

------
welder
Where's the "Buy now" link?

~~~
verroq
This entire article is an ad, clearly it worked.

~~~
carlmr
An ad doesn't work if you can't find a way to buy it.

It's 90% of an ad.

------
barneyrubble
(obligatory) It's your birthday?!

------
maxheadrum
Gronk should make cronk

