
German parliament passes Internet censorship bill - arthurk
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1356941/german-parliament-passes-internet-censorship
======
arthurk
>> _Users will still be able to access the flagged websites, but they will be
advised that viewing child pornography is illegal._

That is not true. It won't be possible to access the website.

Edit: ... by just clicking the warning away.

~~~
rincewind
You can access the servers by their IP adresses. The filtering will be DNS-
based

~~~
bjelkeman-again
Do you have a link for that information?

~~~
Sujan
I do, but it's German:

(2) Für die Sperrung dürfen vollqualifizierte Domainnamen, Internetprotokoll-
Adressen und Zieladressen von Telemedienangeboten verwendet werden. Die
Sperrung erfolgt mindestens auf der Ebene der vollqualifizierten Domainnamen,
deren Auflösung in die zugehörigen Internetprotokoll-Adressen unterbleibt.
Source: <http://www.zugerschwg.com/>

The important part is "Die Sperrung erfolgt mindestens auf der Ebene der
vollqualifizierten Domainnamen, deren Auflösung in die zugehörigen
Internetprotokoll-Adressen unterbleibt." what means "The blocking is done at
least at the level of the fully qualified domain names, whose resolution to ip
adresses is omitted.".

Still searching for a native English source.

~~~
pasbesoin
Without (yet) looking at the remaining text, "mindestens" causes me
hesitation. "At least" or "at a minimum" does not seem to proscribe additional
filtering, e.g. of IP addresses as opposed to DNS lookups.

Perhaps the use here has a colloquial or legal definition I'm not
understanding. But to me, this language sounds like the proverbial slippery
slope.

So, will providers work to restrict adherence to the minimum, or will they of
themselves or in response to additional pressure go further? Or will the law
go further by expanding the scope of this clause?

I have no sympathy for the original crimes involved. I also have little trust
in legislated censorship and in the control and mission of the same remaining
undistorted. I also am uncertain whether it is an effective or appropriate
means of addressing the situation.

If only an approved government agency can research the situation, will the
public be adequately informed? Democracy rests upon (relatively) equal access
to information. What does legislation like this do to that basis?

~~~
Sujan
> If only an approved government agency can research the > situation, will the
> public be adequately informed?

No, they will try to keep the lists a secret.

Of course they will fail, as did all the other countries with their filter and
censorship lists, but the government will try to not tell its people and
destroy democracy, one step at a time.

------
dan_the_welder
First Australia and now Germany. I don't freak out when China puts the
blinders on but I get real unhappy when the First World democracies start
acting all backward.

Have you seen how wide Australia's blacklist is?
[https://secure.wikileaks.org/wiki/Australian_government_admi...](https://secure.wikileaks.org/wiki/Australian_government_admits_less_than_32%25_of_secret_censorship_list_is_related_to_underage_images)

~~~
Devilboy
FYI the Australian plan to implement DNS level filter never got implemented
mainly due to public backlash. The current blacklist is only for people
electing to use the (govt. paid) client-side filtering software.

~~~
dan_the_welder
Oh good.

------
vaksel
um isn't viewing child pornography illegal in Germany? Seems kinda redundant

~~~
Sujan
Of course it is. As it is in 99% of all countries. But there are elections
this September, so they did all kind of silly bills to get publicity for their
party.

And with many people this works: "Oh, child porn on the internet? You have to
DO something against it so nobody can access it. Hiding it is the right way to
go."

That deleting it and prosecuting the people responsible for it would be the
much better way, and required by the law, is forgotten if you can impress some
voters. And it's cheaper and easier for them.

And now that we have this censorship instrument, let's block xyz (replace with
something they don't like) too. No matter that our constitution says
"censorship doesn't take place".

~~~
vijayr
there should be a law that prohibits passing of any major policy bills (except
emergency ones) in say 3 months preceding the election.

~~~
benmathes
Then they'll do it 4 months prior. Your intent is sound, though.

~~~
vijayr
yeah true. but public memory is short, I'm guessing that the influence/impact
of those bills would be lesser if done 4 months before the election, than 1
month before.

~~~
benmathes
So the politicians pass the pandering laws 4 months prior, but talk them up
around the election.

------
gasull
Obvious solution nobody mentions in the comments: use Tor.

<http://torproject.org>

~~~
onreact-com
Sadly most TOR servers have already been shut down in Germany. Some of the
server providers have been accused of spreading child pornography and other
illegal activities themselves. The pressure is immense.

~~~
gasull
I was talking about using Tor as a client. In this moment I'm considering
Germany a country whose censorship you want to avoid, just like China.

~~~
onreact-com
Yeah, but you can't use Tor effectively as a client if there are not enough
nearby servers IMHO.

~~~
gasull
Wrong. Your Tor client won't necessarily choose them. Tor doesn't work like
most P2P applications choosing other peers depending on the speed. It chooses
an aleatory sequence of 3 Tor nodes that changes every 10 minutes.

------
Ardit20
This is a sad day for Internet.

People like me, who were old enough in the late 90s to discover this new
medium and explore our fantasies, whether porn, or so many free games, and so
many other free stuff, like filling those forms that get you no where, talking
to some person miles away, reading ancient books, dude it was fun.

We knew this day would come however, when our subconscious dream of having an
outlet with no rules, an anarchistic environment where one has complete
freedom to say whatever they wish, free from the knowledge that anyone is
looking over their shoulder, that anyone knows who they are, that anyone cares
about what they say or see. This is the place where rich and poor are alike,
treated alike, a place in which one can travel from phsycis to china, from
cars to conversing about business.

Child pornography is abhorrent and despicable, but so is bestiality, some
think porn in general is too, some think films with violence should be banned,
games with violence, etcetera.

When my children will grow to my age perhaps they will never have known of a
different internet, yet I will be glad to tell them the tale of a place where
no one ruled and everyone was free, free from the knowledge that anyone is
watching them, that anyone knows them, that there were any consequences to
their actions. I will tell them that in that period, the stale and static
internet that they now have, was blossoming, dynamic and advancing at
incomprehensible speed. I will tell them that this place was the land of
freedom, where man and women where able to escape the propaganda of their
countries and find out the truth, where men from tyrannical states were able
to get out the news of what is happening inside.

I will tell them that this was the land of freedom and like every other
freedom land it fell to those who distrust us, to those who believe that we
are incompetent, weak, unable to look after ourselves, unable to know what to
think, what is right and wrong.

When a democratic country opts in to censor this place, it is a sad day for
freedom itself. Has Germany forgotten where only 60 years ago their censorship
and propaganda took them? Think of the children! - they cry. And I am, I want
my children to have an outlet which is governed by no one, I want my children
to have a place where no one knows who they are so that they may feel entirely
free to say whatever they wish with no exception whatever, because words are
what makes us think and no one has been harmed in the past 20 years from
people being able to say whatever they wish.

It is abhorrent that a democratic country opts in for censorship and I think
that if the time has not come to say enough, the kettle is boiling to the near
limit.

~~~
cabalamat
If all the people who care about freedom on the net fight back, we'll win. I
don't know where you live, but if it's Germany there's the Piratenpartei
Deutschland at <http://piratenpartei.de/>

You can find your national Pirate Party at <http://www.pp-international.net/>

------
onreact-com
Try and support the free and anonymous Internet project:
<http://freenetproject.org/>

