
Ask HN: Uncertainty in US H1B visa program - matt_the_bass
With changes to US policies since Trump came into office there has been a lot of talk about the future of H1B visa program. As an employeer, this makes me nervous to consider OPT candidates. I wonder will I even able to sponsor them for H1B in the future?<p>Does anyone else feel this way? What do you think will happen to this program?<p>Please note that I’ve previously hired OPT and later sponsored them for H1B. I value all types of diversity in my workplace.<p>Anyone have strong opinions about this visa program?
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twunde
I think it's definitely a concern as anecdotally it has become much harder to
get a H1B. See [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/23/opinion/immigration-
visa-...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/23/opinion/immigration-
visa-h1b-trump-.html) and
[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-06/trump-
s-h...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-06/trump-
s-h-1b-reform-is-to-make-life-hell-for-immigrants-and-companies)

Also worth mentioning is that Congress has been working on raising the minimum
annual salary for people on H!B by $30k to $90k.

Looking at what's going on, my personal take is that H1B will stick around,
but there will be fewer open spots and there will be a lot more competition.
I'd talk to whomever you work with to currently sponsor H1Bs and get their
take as well since I imagine it will be more accurate.

Also something that may be worth doing is talking to your representatives
about the issue (senator and rep). Try scheduling a meeting to talk about H1B.

~~~
matt_the_bass
Thanks!

Yes. Our imagration lawyer is certainly a resource for understanding the
current situation. But my feeling is things may change further. Hence my
interest in this informal survey.

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zagapyan
H1B candidate here. I was awarded my first term as a developer, but I am
required to provide more evidence on my second run because they didn't believe
that I was qualified as a web developer. I mainly work with newer technologies
such as React, Elm, NodeJs, but they're not 'buying my worth'. I have a
deadline to fulfill or I am kicked out even though I'm very much qualified.

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arunpn123
As long as the candidates have a valid work status, isn't it illegal to
discriminate based on type of work status?

~~~
matt_the_bass
Almost but not quite. There are many government projects that require all
personnel working on the project to be us citizens or permanent residents.
Companies can certainly limit hires to those categories if they work or intend
to work on such projects. The way to screen for the is to ask if somone has
their permanent legal right to work in the US. Ianal but I think to be
perfectly correct, one has to ask all candidates that. Not just ones they
_think_ may not be.

Ianal but i think one is not allowed to descriminate based on national origin.

One can also discriminate based on ability to obtain security clearance.

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masonic
You _only_ hire OPTs or H-1Bs?

~~~
matt_the_bass
No. We’ve mostly hired not OPT/H1B. But I’m generally interested in hiring the
best candidate regardless of nationality.

My concern is spending the resources on a good OPT candidate only to find that
I can’t hire them long term. Previously I didn’t have that concern. Now I do.
So I’m wondering if others share that concern.

------
Top19
H1B’s are mainly bad.

First I get that many immigrants are actually really strong candidates more
likely to do amazing things / start businesses and such, but that is precisely
why we should not be allowing them into the US. They are very good candidates
who should be at their home country helping to build it out, start businesses,
employ others, etc. I think it’s selfish of the US to even try to hire these
candidates to begin with.

Second, an effect of H1B visas is they tend to really prevent people from
getting a start in IT. Why waste all that money as a corporation building a
talent pipeline, doing training, etc. if you can just whine and complain that
you can’t hire anybody followed by immediately getting more H1B’s?

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hux_
Yup if Micheal Jordan was born in a Nigerian village that's where he should do
his best work.

~~~
rsj_hn
There are other visas for superstars -- see EB-1 or "Genius Visa". This is a
discussion of the H1-B program. Web developers working in React aren't really
the CS equivalent of Michael Jordan.

~~~
TheCoelacanth
What about people who never get a chance to become superstars because they
can't get the initial opportunities? An EB-1 visa requires "sustained national
or international acclaim". Michael Jordan wouldn't have qualified for that
simply based on his outstanding high school or college performance; he would
have needed to get into the NBA before he could have achieved that.

The EB-1 visa serves an important purpose, but we also need to be playing the
numbers game with skilled young people so that we can that we can get the
portion who eventually turn into superstars.

~~~
rsj_hn
Well, if you want to propose a new visa type for people who might become
superstars in the future, you are welcome to do that, but if you engage with
this seriously you will see that that's not really something to which there is
an immigration answer.

We have laws on the books; an H1-B visa isn't supposed to satisfy all of your
desires for human betterment. It's a temporary worker visa for a limited
quantity of higher skilled immigrants, and was only made into law on that
basis. It was never supposed to ensure that "no child is left behind". I would
go to whatever country you are most worried about and work on education and
legal reform there, if that is your overriding concern.

~~~
TheCoelacanth
> an H1-B visa isn't supposed to satisfy all of your desires for human
> betterment

I wasn't worrying about human betterment; I was worrying about US betterment.
We are not better off by keeping future superstars out of the country.

> It's a temporary worker visa for a limited quantity of higher skilled
> immigrants

The H1-B visa is a dual-intent visa. It is not solely a temporary work visa.
It is intended to bring skilled workers to the US and to sometimes get them to
stay.

> I would go to whatever country you are most worried about

I am already in that country (the US)

~~~
rsj_hn
> I wasn't worrying about human betterment; I was worrying about US
> betterment. We are not better off by keeping future superstars out of the
> country.

There is already a visa for superstars, so you don't have to worry about that.
There is also no caps on visas for academic and research positions, so you
don't have to worry about that either. We are talking about H1-B.

> The H1-B visa is a dual-intent visa. It is not solely a temporary work visa.
> It is intended to bring skilled workers to the US and to sometimes get them
> to stay.

Yes, but you misunderstand the intent. The visa has two intents -- education
and for profit. The education/research uses are not capped. The business uses
capped. If they are a superstar, then they can get the EB visa. H1B is for
middle of the road skilled workers -- eg. people slinging react code. So no
need to worry about future Einsteins or superstars being blocked from entry
because of H1B concerns -- that's a completely spurious argument.

> I am already in that country (the US)

Then you should not be worried about a shortage of skilled workers, because we
have no such shortage. There is a shortage of _cheap_ skilled workers, just as
there is a shortage of cheap BMWs. Solving that "problem" is not the
appropriate use of immigration policy, unless you believe the purpose of
immigration is to arbitrage cross-country labor costs for shareholders of IP
firms while our movies remain region coded and we push for stricter IP
monopolies globally. When I can import medicine and music from the cheapest
source around the world, we can then talk about doing the same for labor,
otherwise you are just lowering costs for capital without also lowering them
for labor, which results in shifting income from labor to capital -- something
that is bad for any country.

~~~
TheCoelacanth
> There is already a visa for superstars, so you don't have to worry about
> that. There is also no caps on visas for academic and research positions, so
> you don't have to worry about that either. We are talking about H1-B.

I already made it clear that I am not talking about current superstars; I am
talking about people who are not currently superstars but have the potential
to be. H1-B holders are almost universally young, well-educated people. They
are much more likely than average to end up being superstars in the future. I
also think it is absurd to suggest that only people in academic or research
positions can end up being superstars.

> Yes, but you misunderstand the intent. The visa has two intents -- education
> and for profit.

No, that is not what "dual intent visa" means. Per the first Google result: "A
dual intent visa allows foreigners to be temporarily present in the United
States with the known intention of possibly immigrating to the U.S.
permanently. That’s significant because most temporary visas require that the
visitor intend to return home."

The H1-B visa is clearly intended to serve both as a way to temporarily work
in the US and as a pathway to permanent immigration.

> Then you should not be worried about a shortage of skilled workers, because
> we have no such shortage. There is a shortage of cheap skilled workers.

That is a matter of opinion, and I disagree with your assessment. It is a much
more realistic concern that overly restrictive immigration laws will harm the
competitiveness of American businesses than that adding a few tens of
thousands of extra software developers to the several million software
developers already present in the US will result in lowered wages.

~~~
speedplane
> The H1-B visa is clearly intended to serve both as a way to temporarily work
> in the US and as a pathway to permanent immigration.

But it isn't intended as a way for people to come in, get trained on domestic
services, just so they can be outsourced later.

