
How should I deal with an employee who has slept with my wife? - DigitalSea
http://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/7617/how-should-i-deal-with-an-employee-who-has-slept-with-my-wife
======
chernevik
If I work for you, and you don't fire him, I quit. That we're even discussing
this has me looking at the door. I'm not sure you can do anything to redeem
not having already fired the guy.

If you won't stand up for yourself here, I don't know when you will. I
certainly don't know when you would stand up for me.

Get a lawyer and do it right. But fire him.

ALSO: Maybe more important. Get yourself into therapy of some kind.
Immediately. Get screened for depression and pyschological disorder.

That you are even asking this question suggests that your priorities and self-
image have departed from normal ranges in unhealthy ways. Never mind the
goddam business. You aren't even living your life. Something is seriously
haywire. If you don't go to work on it you are going to end up a very sad and
strange story.

~~~
purplelobster
Firing somebody in the UK is very difficult. No matter how aggravated he is,
if the law is not on his side then there's nothing he can do.

~~~
chernevik
If the OP cannot legally fire this guy then it is time to depart that
jurisdiction.

Law prevents the OP from just shooting the bastard, and rightly so. We
surrender whatever right we may have to fight and kill on own our behalf, in
return for protection from others and enforcement of just outcomes. The point
is to remove our personal biases from interpretation of "just".

But if the sovereign jurisdiction won't allow this guy to fire someone who has
done this, then its "law" has departed from its proper functions and can't be
relied upon. I don't know what it is doing, but it isn't overseeing justice. I
wouldn't wait to find out how it goes wrong next. I'd just leave.

~~~
onetwothreefour
Oh please, leave the jurisdiction? With his 30-40 employees? I'm sure he's
gonna get right on that.

The guy is fireable in any country.

~~~
elithrar
> The guy is fireable in any country.

Not at all. As aforementioned, you can't legally fire him in the UK (or
Australia). Doing so would immediately welcome a legal battle with Fair Work
(in Australia) and your chances of winning that one are slim to none.

~~~
clarky07
I'm not familiar with the law in the UK. Could someone fill me in?

I'm confused as to how someone can be forced to continue to give money to
someone that they don't want to continue giving money to? What if I decide I
can't afford those employees because we aren't making enough money? Surely I
can close down the business if I want to, effectively firing everyone?

~~~
gazrogers
You can fire people, but you have to follow a certain procedure to do so,
otherwise you put yourself at risk of being sued for wrongful dismissal. There
are clauses in employment contracts to cover gross misconduct so that you can
fire someone for stealing etc. If you can't afford the employee you can make
them redundant - but there are rules about not filling a similar position for
a certain amount of time thereafter to ensure that it's not used as a way of
firing people just because you don't like them. If an employee does their job
and does it well you should not be able to just fire them because you're
having a bad hair day. To me as UK citizen, your system looks like a crazy
free-for-all. To each their own I suppose. :-)

Incidentally, IANAL - the above is essentially right but I'm not an employer
and only have an employee's view of things.

------
pm
Fire him. However, how you handle it is of the utmost importance.

The truth is, not only will you not be able to work with him, but once it gets
out to the company, everyone else will begin asking, "Why hasn't he been
fired?". If you avoid that decision, you will very quickly begin to lose the
trust of your employees, as they'll think you're indecisive and that your
employee is the one with hand.

If you decide to continue working with him, the employee will continue to
undermine you at work. And then he'll leave, start his own company doing the
same product, and bring three quarters of your best devs with him, because
they think you've lost your edge.

So get it the fuck together, fire him, and make a public statement that his
firing was due to a lack of personal integrity and make it clear that you
won't tolerate that kind of personal betrayal. Details can be spared, because
those kinds of rumours spread faster than diseases through a workplace.

This is a pure power play. Don't let him win.

~~~
coopdog
Great advice, you're right that there's a chance that he could lose the entire
company over this.

There's a chance he can't fire him, in which case he should probably contain
him in a room doing menial tasks and receiving written warnings whenever they
aren't satisfactory (3 warnings = can be fired where I live).

Either way dealing with it head on is the only way to keep everyone's respect.

If he takes everyone's advice and deals with it, but also has the benefit of
patience and wisdom to ask before acting (not sure I could), that's probably
the most respect deserving course of all.

~~~
pm
I would suggest patience insofar as he can collect his thoughts to focus
enough on the sitatuion at hand without getting bitter, and execute a plan
with cold ruthlessness.

Whether he likes it or not, his employee is now an adversary, and his wife is
only the beginning. It's like the old lion being ejected from the pride
because his time has come. He's taken his wife, why not take his company? Just
like a serial killer, he's only going to escalate.

------
solusglobus
From evolutionary point of view, the employee has dominated him by taking over
his wife from him. Therefore he will naturally feel inferior. The employee's
dominance is reflected in his subtle arrogance with no sign of remorse. He
should man up and fire him or he is just a pushover, Mr. Nice Guy
(<http://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339>).

~~~
zalew
not sure why someone downvoted you.

~~~
drivebyacct2
Because we're more mature than this "puff out your chest, be a man and get the
girl" crap.

And of course your other comment here is "beat the crap out of him". Wow.

~~~
solusglobus
This is more than just "puff out your chest, be a man and get the girl". This
whole event is rooted in evolutionary psychology. The power dynamics has
unconsciously shifted towards the employee. This is like a power frame which
is adopted in Pitch Anything ([http://www.amazon.com/Pitch-Anything-
Innovative-Presenting-P...](http://www.amazon.com/Pitch-Anything-Innovative-
Presenting-Persuading/dp/0071752854)). To overcome a power frame, you need to
break it. If not, he will always submit to the employee's power frame
unconsciously. This is not good for his productivity, his leadership, his
being as a man and ultimately his company. One way to break the employee's
power frame is to fire him.

~~~
hnriot
You're neglecting the wife in this armchair psychology. There's a much mor
complex power dynamic going on entirely.

~~~
solusglobus
Regardless of what the wife did, attraction is unconscious. The employee in
this case is clearly the better man from evolutionary point of view instead of
ethical point of view. At deeper level, he invested a lot in the employee,
maybe...maybe too much (typical Mr. Nice Guy) that the employee is like the
master and he the servant. Women are unconsciously attracted to men of power
since the dawn of time. Also, it takes two to tango. The employee has a
choice. This event can be prevented in many ways.

------
jessaustin
This is a good story to know, just to motivate decision-makers to get the
business on a no-indispensibles footing. It's more... vivid than the hit-by-a-
bus scenario.

If I might put on my amateur-analyst's hat, if your employee fucked your wife,
there is a very good chance that he's been fucking you for much longer. A
fresh-from-college hire might very well test his boss to see what he can get
away with in the first few months on the job, especially if the employee plays
the central business role described here. In many situations that youthful
experimentation can be indulged, within reason. In this situation indulgence
became pathological, and the employee was trapped in a cycle of escalating
transgression. You have sown the wind with this employee.

The second professional you should retain, after a lawyer (and indeed this
will be a good lawyer's advice) is a private investigator. This guy has been
robbing you. If this employee has access to business computers, that
investigator should be skilled in forensic computer security. If the employee
has access to the books, you'll need a forensic accountant. You might not be
able to fire this guy for the ultimate transgression, but you'll definitely be
able to fire him (and possibly refer him to prosecutors) for all the steps
that led up to it.

If your spirit is so broken by now that you can't contemplate the above then
maybe you should just sell the business. It would be nice if you could keep
the proceeds away from the ex, but that seems unlikely.

------
rossjudson
Give the asker a bit of a break. He just got run over by a truck, and some are
taking him to task for not bouncing right back up and picking a fight. He got
run over by a frickin' truck. Emotionally. He's looking for reassurance and
contact with others. Once he heals, he'll be the kind of person who put a
40-man company together again, and he'll do what needs to be done.

------
jetti
The wife is the one at fault, not the employee. Chances are that if the
employee said 'no', then the wife would've found somebody else to sleep with.
The wife was the one who took a vow to remain faithful, not the employee.

~~~
Frozenlock
I don't know why you got downvoted.

When you have a relationship with a man/woman, it's with this individual, not
with every single other human being on the planet.

If I'm not with anyone and I try to seduce your girlfriend, it's HER job to
say no. Unless you don't think she is smart enough to make her own decisions.
But in this case we have other problems...

As opposed to jetti, I'm not sure the wife would just have found somebody
else. But regardless, she was the one in couple with the boss.

I'm confused by most of the reactions I see here. It's as if they expect the
boss to be able to tell employees who they can fuck.

Kudos to this boss for at least considering that firing the guy is not the
only solution.

~~~
MordinSolus
> As opposed to jetti, I'm not sure the wife would just have found somebody
> else.

Irrelevant.

Here's the problem:

"At the same time, every time I see his face, I feel like that just kills me
inside."

It is silly to think that this doesn't affect productivity and won't affect
the business in the future, especially with communication between these two
individuals. A person's well being does is in fact a work matter, the
acknowledgment of which makes the employees position absolutely untenable. You
cannot possibly sleep with a fellow employee's spouse (regardless of whether
it is a superior or not) and _not_ expect that to be a work matter.

> It's as if they expect the boss to be able to tell employees who they can
> fuck.

This isn't about telling the employee who they can fuck. It's about fostering
a productive and positive work environment. Knowingly choosing to create
animosity between yourself and a superior (or any fellow employee for that
matter) in such a hurtful manner is simply stupid.

This employee should be fired immediately.

~~~
Frozenlock
I'm not disagreeing with any of the possible impact on the boss's
productivity, but rather how a majority of response here are of the kind:
"Fire him, be the alpha male! Ouga ouga!" Firing him _might be_ the correct
answer; but it's in no way evident.

Try this thought experiment: suppose you have 2 employees. Would you fire one
of them if he sleeps with the other's girlfriend, or would you consider this a
'personal matter' and not interfere?

~~~
MordinSolus
> Would you fire one of them if he sleeps with the other's girlfriend, or
> would you consider this a 'personal matter' and not interfere?

If I am a small business and only have ~50 employees, I would probably fire
them. It's only a personal matter until it affects work. This would obviously
affect work.

~~~
Frozenlock
You would fire BOTH of them?

------
tptacek
Here is a more interesting question:

You're the boss.

Your immediate report is the competent VP/Engineer.

His report, the company's best dev, is the one who committed the personal-life
transgression against him.

The two will never work together well again. Now what?

~~~
scottmagdalein
Trust is more important than skill or domain knowledge or even cultural fit.
Without trust, everything else is useless.

~~~
001sky
Agree. Trust is the most valuable economic asset in the world. Its the
foundation of all co-operation (informal) and contract (formal).

------
tyang
Besides the obvious answer of firing him or making his life so miserable he'll
quit, etc., here's an out of the box idea (I don't know if the preceding 38
comments touch on this - if they did, that validates my idea a bit):

What about the idea of selling the company to him or firing yourself with a
nice, generous severance or golden parachute?

One possibility is that you don't yet respect yourself as much as you could.

Another is he may be more important than you right now.

A third is that you will start messing up at work if you keep him around, so
you are future value add will at some point be less than his.

Any of these three possibilities suggest that the company is better off with
him staying and you leaving.

That said, my first suggestion for you is to get a good therapist. Get some
help from your real friends and family (parents? siblings?) And when you man
up, fire his ass.

Good luck. You seem like a good person intent on doing what is right for all
but it may be time to do what's right for yourself.

------
Benferhat
What's the point of owning the company if you can't fire the guy who cuckolded
you? Come on! If you were into it, it'd be another story.

------
Eliezer
I'm glad I don't live on that planet and that none of my girlfriends'
boyfriends have a problem with me.

The algorithm here isn't complicated. Ask yourself whether you're someone who
can be happily monogamous. If the answer is "no", own up to it, date poly
people and have awesome dinners with your new extended family. If the answer
is "yes", you have the option of dating somebody who needs your fidelity and
offers you theirs in return, and the two of you can live happily ever. And
then there are all the other options - but regardless, try to figure it out
and be honest with yourself _before you get married._

~~~
potatolicious
People cheat for many reasons besides "I secretly yearn to be poly", there's
nothing here that suggests that OP's wife falls under that case.

~~~
jspthrowaway2
His view is less about the reason and more about the action itself.

------
angersock
It's a shame seeing something like this come up, especially since there is
basically no way we can really get a useful picture of events to give advice.
Several statements lack qualifying detail that could be useful:

    
    
      Recently, I found out that one of my employees has been having an affair with my wife.
    

Drunk hookup at New Year's Eve party, semi-monthly when the timing works out,
or on your office desk every Friday when you're out playing golf?

    
    
      My wife has since left me
    

For the employee? For another party entirely? For Scientology?

    
    
      I've spoken to him, and he says he's sorry about what's happened but he's also not leaving.
    

He's sorry he got caught, or that he got caught up in the heat of the moment?

Seriously, there's degrees here and a simple "The arrogant little bastard
cuckolded me!" likely doesn't do the situation justice.

Moreover, as the guy points out himself, the employee is technically competent
and also the matter is private at the moment--presumably, he may be able to
let sleeping dogs lie.

This is stupid drama and we can't help because we're all supposing things
wildly.

------
kevinalexbrown
I'll lead the specific advice to SE, but one general observation:

If he's actually that valuable, this is a great reason to spread
responsibility, coach newer employees, and invest in other people besides your
indispensable "rockstar/ninja/guru" _before_ you might have to let them go for
a non-performance-based liability, like suspicions of fraud, etc.

~~~
joeblau
Yeah I totally agree. Separation of duties and rotation of duties is actually
a pretty important security measure that should be employed at any company.
When there is one person that does/knows it all-everything rises and falls on
that employee; even your morality.

------
scottmagdalein
Option #1: Ask him (face to face) to talk with him privately, punch him as
hard as you can right in the nose, then talk to an employment lawyer to make
sure you're in the clear to dismiss him for a breach of professional trust.

Option #2: Most of #1, but (instead of an employment lawyer) demote him to the
mail room so he'll resign (no severance or unemployment).

Also, never allow a single person, however trustworthy, to be so indispensable
to your business that you can't thrive without them.

~~~
gnu8
#2 is more complicated than you think. It would be seen as a constructive
dismissal, basically equivalent to a termination. Only a lawyer can properly
advise if this is a good idea.

I'm going to type the words a few more times for emphasis: lawyer lawyer
lawyer lawyer lawyer lawyer lawyer lawyer up.

~~~
greenyoda
If this is happening in the U.S., then the employee is probably an "at-will"
employee, who can be fired for any reason whatsoever - as long as you're not
discriminating against him based on his sex, religion, or membership in some
other legally protected class. People who've slept with your wife are not a
protected class under law.

~~~
gnu8
The point is giving an employee nothing useful to do so that they resign may
be the same as terminating them, so they might still be entitled to severance
or unemployment benefits.

------
richardjordan
This is stupid. You fire the guy and I'd take the pepsi challenge on any
really unlikely legal issues that arise (which they wouldn't).

If this is even a question for you I genuinely believe you're not cut out to
be a CEO and you should take plan B - promote the guy to CEO and slink off
into the background yourself.

------
georgemcbay
To be completely blunt, if someone has to ask a question like this on
stackexchange and he didn't fire the other guy immediately (or at least after
consulting a lawyer to cross the Ts and dot the Is), I'm not entirely
surprised that he isn't "doing it" for his wife.

This isn't meant to excuse her cheating in any way as I believe cheating is a
cowardly and inexcusable way to get out of a relationship that isn't working,
but c'mon.

For what it is worth, I'd advocate firing if the guy found out an employee was
cheating on any other employee, so while it would be impossible to separate
your feelings in his situation, I think it is the right action regardless of
who got cheated on.

Talk about workplace poison and unethical behavior!

------
dkokelley
I think the only correct answer is to talk to a lawyer and determine the best
way to legally terminate the employee. Also, another lawyer should be involved
to settle matters between the company owner and unfaithful wife. Things could
reach another level of complicated if the wife decides she wants a say in the
matter. Does she own any portion of the company, or have a voice in how it is
operated?

The end action is obvious (to me). It's the legal minefield of steps necessary
to get to that action that the owner needs to carefully consider (with the
advice of sound legal council).

------
greggman
It's not the employee's responsibility to stay away from your wife. It's your
wife's responsibility to not sleep with other people and your responsibility
not to give her any reason to.

I've never understood the Hollywood story of wife cheats on husband, husband
beats up her lover. As far as you know he wasn't even aware she was married.

In this case clearly he was aware it was your wife. Would it change the story
if she was your girlfriend instead of your wife? Your x-wife? Your
x-girlfriend?

I'd say effectively since she had the affair she already was your x-wife. Do
the circumstances matter? If he she had left first then later started a
relationship with this guy would that change how you feel? If he'd never met
your wife while you were married and then met her without knowing she was your
wife would that change things?

I'm not suggesting you shouldn't feel upset or want to fire the guy or get him
to leave. You feel how you feel. All I'm suggesting is other ways to frame the
issue that might subtly change your P.O.V.

------
mtraven
Promote the guy to sales, he's clearly a closer.

~~~
DannyBee
Reddit is over that way.

------
exodust
Nobody is questioning the legitimacy of the anonymous post?

Have you seen the early edits of the question?

* His wife's name is Jenny * been together for 15 years * high school sweethearts * 3 yr old son

Way to stay anonymous.

The user has been a member for 2 days, already attracted 403 reputation points
(whatever that means).

Anyway, people seem to enjoy discussing the topic, and enjoy assuming it's all
real and their advice will make it back to the questioner.

Hook, line, sinker.

If it is real, the full story is needed including the other man's version
before anyone can say what to do.

------
rbanffy
Sleep with his daughter? Wait for him to marry your ex and sleep with her
again? Hire an outplacement company and place him inside a competitor you
particularly dislike?

Seriously: why employ someone you can't trust?

------
dchichkov
I think one should be more careful posting such stuff 'anonymously'. It looks
like there is enough bits of information here, to identify the original
poster. Owner of the company with 30-40 employees; technology company; oldest
employee in the company was recruited straight from the university; divorced;
likely UK; likely has another account on stack-exchange; writing style.

~~~
rehack
How do you know that, the 'anonymous' poster has not posted this to shame the
_bastard_ and the ex-wife?... Doubt a small (30-40 employee) tech company's
employees don't spend any time on stackexchange or on HN.

And the poster has left just enough clues for his target audience (other
employees and his and his ex-wife personal friends) to figure out things. At
the same time he is within limits such that he is legally safe (against any
defamation suits).

One can't be sure, but if this posting, indeed was a shaming strategy. I would
say good solid punch. Bang on the face.

------
MrMcDowall
Law No. 2 of The 48 Laws of Power could have made you more wary about this
situation:

Never put too much trust in friends; learn how to use enemies.

[0] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_48_Laws_of_Power>

~~~
mahmud
Robert Greene and his Machiavellian bullshit. The sooner you ignore that
conniving crap the happier you will live.

------
blisterpeanuts
Unbelievable. Fifty or sixty years ago, such an act of betrayal would have
been answered with a summary firing, at least, and possibly a good beating as
a parting gift.

Today, in our namby pamby world, someone has to ask: should I fire him? Would
that be insensitive of me? Will I be sued? How will my (ex)wife feel?

The answer, since you asked, is to fire his ass for unethical behavior. If he
tries to take you to court, hire a good lawyer and fight back. File a civil
suit against him. Make him famous. Make him sorry he ever walked in the door.

What goes around, comes around. Important employee, my ass. No one is worth
that.

~~~
colanderman
* a good beating as a parting gift *

Fortunately that's illegal.

~~~
blisterpeanuts
So is murder. But 75 or 100 years ago, men were commonly murdered for sleeping
with another man's wife. Sometimes the killer went to jail. Other times a
smart lawyer could get him a lenient sentence. After all, the prevailing
morality of the era (arguably still true today) was that you keep your hands
off another person's spouse, at risk of life and limb if you don't.

------
gurvinder372
Let's be honest here, personal and professional life will always impact each
other. They can't be separated no matter how much you want to reason it out. I
can't image how you two will be able to get into a meeting room and only
discuss about business. And if you are unable to do that his technical
competence will not add any value to you. His words may sound convincing, but
your employee sounds arrogant and self-righteous if he says this shouldn't be
a work matter.

I would suggest that you first take a break from your employee, make up your
mind to terminate him, and finally talk to a lawyer to understand your options
from him.

------
lancewiggs
This is for the guy himself, the one who had the affair.

Hi. What an awful situation - uncomfortable doesn't really begin to describe
it. However what's done is done, and if you are now with the wife of the boss,
then clearly you and she are happier in that state. Even if not, clearly life
is once again far more complicated than we ever envisage, and you have both
chosen the difficult path.

So what to do?

Let's paint three options - fight, flee or transition.

Under Fight, you would stand your ground, and insist that business is
business, and personal matters are separate.

With Flee, you'd exit immediately and allow you and your new partner to start
a new life together away from her former husband.

With Transition you'll take into account the knowledge that things will never
be the same at work, and negotiate a graceful exit and transition, perhaps
retaining a share of the business, and also ensuring that you formally settle
any claim on the business the wife may have.

The Fight approach may seem logical, in a Spock kind of way, but it is bereft
of all feeling. You will be demonstrating to all around you that you are
completely non-empathic, and some may start pondering your scores from The
Psychopath Test (book). I suspect that it would result in an uncomfortable
work and personal experiences which will almost certainly end badly for all
parties, including the business and the ex-wife.

The Flee approach is the most empathetic, signaling that relationships and
family matter more than business, which is a view held by almost everybody
else in the world. It's kindest to your Boss, and to your new lover, and
allows you all to make genuine re-starts. However you'll lose some of the
benefits from being in the company, and you will leave an immediate gap with
your knowledge and skills.

The Transition or negotiate and leave approach is probably wisest. The
transition period could be days to months, but does need to be defined and
progress monitored. You would each agree a list of tasks to complete, and on a
way of behaving to each other. You may (should really) choose to have a third
party or two involved with this negotiation, but don't hire expensive lawyers
and do it in court, for obvious reasons. Come to a rapid agreement within a
few days, and then honourably complete the terms.

No doubt there are other approaches, and they should be considered as well.
All of them should include a genuine apology - indeed a series of genuine
apologies.

Of course it wasn't entirely clear whether you are still with the ex-wife, but
even if it was a fairly brief fling, serious consideration of the approach to
take and the apologies is still very valid.

------
conductr
If you can't fire him, change his role with the company. He is now the
bathroom attendant. He is expected to clean the toilet, provide a towels to
dry hands, offer mints, etc. No tips allowed.

He won't be around for long

------
mrslx
Open an office in a warzone and assign him there. He doesn't accept, fire.

~~~
mrslx
... imagine the reference check...

------
Zenst
Facts: you dont like him now, this was outside work and in that would be
unfair to fire as not work related and also legal issues. You are splitting
from your wife.

My solution would be make the divorce settlement to be mostly made up from the
company. Offload what else you can onto the other chap with fiscal
compensation. Then once that has setteled and be all friendly about it you
then after a nice little holiday break set up a competeing company and do what
you want to do with a clean slate with the knowledge of the buisness, list of
employee's you wish to recruit from the old company and relationships with the
customers. That is what I would do, only fair and works on many levels of
karma as well as enabling you to completely in effect restructure the company
in a way that enables you to do it with all that hindsite you have gained and
is an emense advantage. Also get misconduct clauses in the contracts that can
be leveridged in such matter. Though even if you did have that enabling you to
dismiss him without fallback you still need to perhaps make people more
dispensible in your company design.

But your company is your life and so is your wife and with that too lose one
and have the other stabbed up is certainly a unplesant situation and with
that; Don't get mad, get even. But it is had not to get mad so channel it and
tap into that new resovoir of energy - some of us have to drink lots of coffee
to obtain that level of energy.

------
dancole
> I'm the owner of a business [...]

If he divorces his wife, could she potentially get part ownership of the
company?

~~~
pdonis
IANAL, but I think it depends on the state (or country) and how the business
is set up (are any shares of stock in her name or held jointly?).

------
jlakai
He can fire him, but not without the risk of being sued. I think his dilemma
is salvaging the time/investment he made into the employee who basically is
his right hand man. A person like that is difficult if not impossible to
replace.

He's a logical thinker, but his employee is pretty shady to want to stay
around and not quit and seems to be quite arrogant. This can be an advantage.

The wife won't get shit. She is the one who had the affair.

The right choice and most difficult choice is to keep him around. It's likely
he is still reliable in terms of the company and vital for his day to day
operations.

It is extremely for him to take a new stance with his employee though. Make
sure you document in writing all the mistakes or problems you have here on out
(Extremely Important). Start looking for a replacement, and have the employee
start going through day to day operations.

This will stop the employee from stepping all over his boss. Realizing he can
be replaced is important especially since the guy seems to not have respect
for his boss.

This will put him in his place and he'll have the choice to step up and
outperform or make mistakes that puts him in a situation where there is just
cause to fire him.

The best case scenario would be for his employee to quit on his own so that he
doesn't have have to give severance pay, health insurance or unemployement.
This is what usually happens.

You could also cut his hours etc, other ways to get him to leave without
having to fire him.

------
usablebytes
Important question unanswered, before we could give any advice: When did your
wife leave? Was it after you found out about the affair or before?

Ideally, our life partner cheating on us should hurt us more than somebody we
mentored. But may be since the wife couldn't be controlled, the anguish is on
the employee who can be controlled somehow.

The law, surely would support the employee as the personal matters can't be
mixed with office. But yea, if you want to fire him, you can do with some
other reasons, if not this.

------
brudgers
Many personal and business relationships have survived far more serious
problems than sex with an ex.

Seriously, an employee's sex life is generally none of the employer's business
- neither is the sex life of one's ex-spouse.

Objectively, the employee did not violate the bosses trust and the
relationship might be repaired. Though not exactly typical, a marriage and
family counselor might help in working toward that end if the parties are
willing.

~~~
clarky07
Are you kidding? This wasn't sex with an ex. This was an affair while they
were married that was the reason for ending the marriage. You can't see a
difference?

------
tedunangst
Looks like there is an exception to the rule that "my private life is none of
my employer's business, no exceptions".

~~~
dredmorbius
The exception is and always has been "until it materially affects
performance".

~~~
tedunangst
It sounds like its only affecting performance because the employer has chosen
to make it affect performance. Look at all the comments from people saying if
the boss doesn't fire the employee (perhaps because its not affecting
performance) they'd quit because the boss has no backbone. Where's the job
performance related justification for that?

~~~
dredmorbius
What part of people leaving a company on account of the breach of trust
between a co-worker and the boss, and the related loss of institutional
knowledge and incurred replacement recruiting costs, don't constitute a
business impact.

It's not necessary for the impact to be on the productivity of the employee
whose behavior is in question. Say, an employee starts showing up at work in
tactical combat gear with various hate slogans put up around their workplace
and on their car, which make other employees understandably scared. Or sexual
harassment creating a hostile work environment for others. In neither case
would the offender necessarily be the one whose productivity is impacted. I'd
support termination in either case, however.

------
patmcguire
You can't really expect yourself to deal with someone "fairly" when this
happens. A person can reason about it all he wants, he's never going to not
hate the guy who slept with his wife. Get it over with at any cost, it'll drag
down the company much worse than losing any employee.

------
hugh4life
Challenge him to a duel.

------
crymer11
Maybe I'm naive, but everywhere I've been employed, it's been an "at-will"
employment where either party has the right to terminate the employment
contract without notice (discriminatory termination notwithstanding).

------
ekm2
I truly admire your composure and ability to think of a sensible,legal way of
dealing with this situation.Call me irrational but i would have properly &
firmly physically 'fixed' this employee.

------
bramcohen
In regards to the question of 'Is it legal to fire this person for this?' at
least in California it's a slam dunk - the answer is yes. One of the questions
on the harassment training I had to take was for a related scenario, where a
boss cut off an affair with an employee and later on fired her because his
wife found out and wanted him to, and the whole point of the question was that
the firing was legal. If it's legal to fire under that circumstance, it's
definitely legal to fire under this one.

------
viveksec
I think the OP is balancing the economic costs of firing with the
psychological advantages to be had by chucking him and clearing his mind. If
the guy wasnt "close to indispensible", he'd likely be gone by now. One way
out could be to bring some other employees up to speed and then fire the guy.

Overall I agree with the top comment. Having the guy around for long would
inflict a negative air at the top that might permeate the entire organization.
Gotta go for sure.

------
frogpelt
If a person who worked for me slept with anyone else's wife I would start
looking for reasons to fire them. Even more so if it was a coworker's wife.
Furthermore, if it was my wife I would fire them immediately and ask questions
later.

This loser hasn't an ounce of integrity and integrity is a must in almost any
setting. If you expect productivity and team solidarity to ever exist again
the garbage must be taken out.

------
thedealmaker
Fire the employee and either commit to counseling or separate from from your
wife asap. If anyone presents any other options they are sugar coating the
situation. Either way short term you are in for some pain personally and
professionally. Deal with it and move on with or without your wife but the
employee has to go.

------
zalew
what happened to beat the crap out of him?

------
lousy_sysadmin
Adultery isn't punishable legally in some places...really? This is the first
time I heard this. I'm talking about married couple, adultery here. Wasn't
marriage a "legal contract"? In this case does it mean that if the couple were
to be divorced, the guy still need to pay alimony et cetera?

~~~
tomku
There are two separate issues here, adultery as a crime and adultery as a
breach of contract. I'll talk about US laws, since they're the ones I'm most
familiar with.

Adultery as a crime is still surprisingly common, but going away fast.
Prosecutions for it in Western countries are extremely rare, and the laws
making it illegal in 23 US states are just waiting to be challenged and
overthrown. Most people seem to think that it's not the government's business
to decide that all husbands and wives must remain faithful or be fined/jailed.

Adultery as a breach of contract is a little trickier, because a marriage
contract is a special kind of contract that covers things that normal
contracts can't. You can't sue someone for breaching their marriage vows, but
you can divorce them. In the past, you needed grounds (such as adultery) to do
so, but no-fault divorces are available now in every US state and several
other Western countries. Whether adultery is factored into decisions about
alimony depends on the jurisdiction - some do, some don't. It's a tricky
issue, and relationships (particularly rocky ones) tend to be more complex
than rigid rules can allow for.

On a more general point, I think that you'd have a hard time convincing a
judge that lifetime sexual exclusivity is something you can sign away in any
normal legal contract. Marriage gets special treatment to allow for things
like that, but the trade-off is that we expect married couples to try to deal
with their own issues rather than getting the courts involved immediately.

------
jpeg_hero
Very surprised nobody has mentioned "at will" employment.

.. or as my old employment law professor used to say:

You can require all of your employees to wear purple shirts. And then the next
day when one of them shows up wearing purple, you can fire him for wearing
purple.

------
onetwothreefour
Fire him. The end.

------
edouard1234567
Was your wife working for the company? A lot of companies forbid husband and
wife to work for the company at the same time.

------
checker659
How about he sell the company and move on?

------
nvr219
The guy in the OP values his company over all other personal relationships it
seems.

~~~
enjo
If he's willing to sleep with the damn owners wife, what _else_ is he willing
to do? Cheat? Steal? At best he's a poison to the culture.

~~~
baddox
Why would a romantic affair have any correlation to stealing?

~~~
dickbasedregex
If you are willing to have an affair with someone else's spouse, especially
when that person has been a mentor and championed you by promoting you, you're
probably pretty devoid of any loyalty or moral fiber. And then to refuse to
leave? Yeah, you can assume that person is completely untrustworthy in any
regard.

Note, I'm not referring to a single mistake in a moment of weakness but an
ongoing affair.

~~~
baddox
I get the tautology that if you can't be trusted then you can't be trusted,
but I still don't see any reason to believe this would extend to something
like theft.

------
gadders
First fire him. Then kick his arse.

------
ramtamtam
Well here's a thought:

Perhaps he himself should pack up and leave?

After all he is the one with trust issues in the workplace.

------
grot
all's fair in love and war right?

------
rscale
I find it very, very strange that his first stop wasn't an employment lawyer.
He has an employee with a demonstrated willingness to lie about the most
important of things, to cause massive distraction and disruption, and to do so
with little regret. What else isn't he telling you?

If he really doesn't believe he can fire this guy, he has a succession
planning problem that needs to be solved.

------
andyl
Consult your attorney, train a replacement, fire the guy. The breach of trust
can never be repaired. How can this decision take more than ten seconds?

------
escaped_reddit
Did your wife leave because you found out or did the employee sleep with ur
wife after she left?

------
jspthrowaway2
Threads like this are a nice sampling of the kinds of people you find on
Hacker News. I find myself saying "yep, I'd work for you," "not in a million
years," and so on. It's fun. Try it.

Hint: Immediate-fire responses are managers who shouldn't have reports. Take
notes.

~~~
blisterpeanuts
You'd rather work for some unassertive, passive-aggressive guy who lets
employees betray his trust and just turns the other cheek?

~~~
jspthrowaway2
I said "immediate-fire", not "fire". Take time to consider all the facts
before reacting; reacting quickly is usually a sign of a bad manager.

~~~
blisterpeanuts
OK, so you'd rather work for a guy who fires the adulterer the next day, not
the same day that he finds out he's been poking his wife? Because he's taken
24 hours to "think it over"?

I can understand if the employee was caught stealing petty cash or fudging the
time sheets; then you'd want some semblance of due process to gain absolute
proof, give him a chance to resign rather than be fired, etc.

But adultery? _Confessed_ adultery?

~~~
jspthrowaway2
It's not about the proof required to fire him. It's about understanding the
situation entirely before reacting. Immediate reactions are usually
problematic because emotions are involved, _particularly_ in this case.

------
OGinparadise
Step One: Fire Him (at least make that decision in your head) Step Two: Work
it out for maximum payback to him and less trouble for you.

But a lot depends on how long you were married, maybe the wife still loves him
and she may own part of the company.

