
Girl buys water, spends night in jail - commanderj
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/uva-girl-water-beer-jail-181104442.html
======
mtgx
She was lucky she wasn't male and black. Because if she were, they'd probably
shoot him, and then say "they thought he was drawing a weapon...as he fled".

Not like it hasn't happen exactly like that before. There was even a video of
it online. I think if more tourists knew stuff like this is happening in
America, they'd stay the hell away from it.

~~~
cones688
Sometimes I think the lack of Armed Police in the UK is a benefit as they take
arming an officer with a lethal weapon is a serious matter and requires
specific training/psychoanalysis.

What possible requirement could the " Alcohol Beverage Control Division" need
to be armed?! Does every Government Official get a weapon/carry/threaten
permit when they join?!

~~~
rtb
Massive +1 to this.

It seems to me that the UK police, since they are not armed, generally try to
defuse situations. (Of course, they can call for armed backup if it is
necessary.)

Time and again, I read of US police unnecessarily escalating situations. If
your immediate response to any tension is to pull out a gun and start
shouting, then things are very likely to get a lot worse in many cases.

Perhaps this is just confirmation bias though. I only get to read about the US
cases where things have gone wrong.

~~~
rangibaby
> Perhaps this is just confirmation bias though. I only get to read about the
> US cases where things have gone wrong.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menez...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes)

~~~
willvarfar
Whilst that is a harrowing case, it is hardly the same as the routine pulling
of guns first and asking questions later attitude that you were replying to?

~~~
rangibaby
Thanks for bringing this up!

I considered the same point before posting the link, but decided that it was
appropriate considering (imo) that it is a product of the same 21st century
paranoia and police culture of "shoot first, ask questions later".

~~~
willvarfar
These were officers who, at short notice, were staking out a suspected
terrorist's flat just days after a bombing and during a national hysteria. It
was a horrid chain reaction of errors, but it was hardly officers waving guns
around to apprehend a girl they thought had brought beer?

------
aidos
I'm always a little amazed that the age for buying booze in the states is 21.

Wait, am I understanding this correctly? At the age of 20 she's not allowed to
buy alcohol but could have already owned a gun for 2 years?

The world is a funny old place.

~~~
InclinedPlane
You can pretty much blame MADD for that. Originally it started out as an
organization with the best intentions but over time it's turned into more or
less a modern temperance movement.

The key was figuring out that if you pressure the federal government enough
you can get states to fall in line. The federal government doesn't have the
ability to set a blanket drinking age for every state. But it does have the
ability to withhold federal highway funds from states that refuse to set their
minimum drinking age at 21.

~~~
gizmo686
That still doesn't explain the age of 21. Couldn't the federal government just
as easily had required states set the age at 18 in order to recieve highway
funds.

~~~
InclinedPlane
The age was already 18 in most states, so that wouldn't have done anything.

The 21 age was chosen partly because there was already historical precedent in
holding back certain rights or privileges until the age of 21, such as voting
prior to the 26th amendment. Also, it helps that it's only 3 years from 18, so
it can be written off as just a minor change.

As I mentioned MADD basically transitioned into becoming a neo-
prohibitionist/temperance movement organization. Even the founder, who left
the group the year after MADD succeeded in getting the National Minimum
Drinking Age Act passed, believes that to be the case. Shifting the drinking
age is one part of that, they've also campaigned for increasing the excise
taxes on alcohol to reduce consumption.

------
caf
In what sense was pulling a gun justified even if she _was_ holding a 12-pack
of beer? "Alcohol Beverage Control" agents? Is this a repost from 1927?

------
dsego
I've had a similar thing happen to me (I live in Croatia). It happened a few
years back so some details are hazy now. It was a rainy evening and I was
picking up my brother and we were to drive home for the weekend. His
girlfriend was also with him. So, I pick them up and drive to this small
parking space to turn the car around. The moment I circled the car around the
parking, an unmarked Octavia reverses in front of me, with two bald guys in
sport jackets running towards me. I didn't know how to react, in a second or
two all sorts of scenarios went thorough my mind. Were they robbers? Then I
saw them moving their hands towards their hips. Going for guns? Should I put
the car in reverse and try to escape? They pulled out what looked like badges
and started yelling to turn off the engine and step out. I still believe t was
a leap of faith on my part, trusting them to be the police and I'm afraid of
what might've happened if I acted differently. They asked us to empty our
pockets, patted us, searched the car and just left, no explanation, no sorry,
nothing. They didn't search the girl, I guess it's against the law or
something. My brother jokes how one of the officers persistently asked him if
he had something in his pants, and all he thought was "yeah, shit, because I
almost shat myself". I suppose they were on a stakeout, probably looking for
narcotics dealers or something, who knows. It wasn't a pleasant experience at
all.

------
Nursie
>> "undercover agents from the state's Alcohol Beverage Control"

>> " One jumped on the hood of her SUV; another pulled out a gun"

What The F*ck America?

~~~
disputin
Indeed. And seven agents for a case of beer? Green card applications dropping
much?

------
Gigablah
This is why I will never visit Saudi Arabia.

Wait, where did this happen again?

~~~
muyuu
People still flock to the US and Dubai for some reason.

Not me though.

~~~
EliRivers
I know so many ex-pats who moved to Dubai and constantly told me what a great
pace it was to live, but as soon as they had a child moved (back) to the West;
many of them not the country they came from, but just somewhere in the West.

------
pfortuny
_" You don't know all the facts until you complete the investigation,"_.

Man, that is blind faith in so many untrustworthy sources (remember '41
shots?') that I am trying to recover from the shock. Poor girl.

Seven people. I say: seven. One, two three, four, five, six, seven. They would
have scared everything out of me.

~~~
gutnor
7 people with guns to pursue the buyer of 12 pack. It would at least a
homicide to get that amount of police force around here.

------
hoi
Why does "underage" alochol purchasing require law enforcement officers to
draw a gun?

~~~
tome
Because the law enforcement officers have to protect their own lives. This is
America, where anyone could be carrying an implement that requires two seconds
to kill.

~~~
Deestan
> Because the law enforcement officers have to protect their own lives.

Against a teenage girl who may have _gasp_ bought some beer?

How about:

"Excuse me, miss. We suspect you have illegaly purchased alcohol. May we
inspect your car, please?"

Scenario 1: "Oh! Ok." Car is inspected. "Oh it's just water. Sorry about the
trouble, have a good day!"

Scenario 2: Girl tries to escape and drives off. Note personalia and license
number. File charges as usual.

There is no realistic scenario in which they need to threaten her on her life
and assault her car because of a suspected _12-pack of beer_.

~~~
pezh0re
I agree - the chances of a teenage girl packing heat is probably small, but
it's those small chances that can get you seriously injured.

According to this (admittedly outdated) research paper [1], the high-end
estimate of traffic stops resulting in the homicide of the police officer is
1:20.1 Million. This doesn't really sound like a traditional traffic stop -
more like a sting (something that I couldn't readily find data for).

[1]
[http://blog.lib.umn.edu/jbs/Criminal%20Procedure%20in%20Amer...](http://blog.lib.umn.edu/jbs/Criminal%20Procedure%20in%20American%20Society/OfficersAssaulted.pdf)
(Warning... PDF)

------
chris_wot
Looks like they have been deluged with complaints. They have posted something
on Facebook:

[https://www.facebook.com/notes/virginia-department-of-
alcoho...](https://www.facebook.com/notes/virginia-department-of-alcoholic-
beverage-control/clarifying-abcs-involvement-in-april-11-charlottesville-
incident/10151739068971788)

------
qwerta
Usual stuff, she will have to plead guilty to get suspended sentence. Then
permanent record and ruined life. Officers will get bonus points and salary
increase. Justice always wins!

Update: apparently charges were dropped

~~~
mherdeg
According to the source article ( [http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/bottled-
water-purchase-lea...](http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/bottled-water-
purchase-leads-to-night-in-jail-for-
uva/article_b5ab5f62-df9b-11e2-81c4-0019bb30f31a.html) ), the prosecutor said
that Ms. Daly's account was "factually consistent"; dropped the three felony
charges; and defended the police's actions.

The fact that the prosecution isn't pushing harder suggests that the story
here is essentially true — "a girl was assaulted by a disorderly armed mob on
her way out of a grocery store and managed to escape them, but it turned out
that they were plainclothes police who had mistaken her bottled water for beer
and were trying to arrest her, so they put her in prison overnight and filed
three felony charges (which have since been dropped)." Classy, guys.

You have to wonder whether anyone in the group who performed the arrest has
any kind of remorse or has developed any sort of insight about whether they
might have done things differently.

~~~
qwerta
You are right, charges were dropped. So she is probably going to be fine.

~~~
Nursie
>> So she is probably going to be fine.

I bet she's going to have an all-new viewpoint on law enforcement officers
though.

~~~
VLM
No conflict between those two statements.

The civil lawsuit is going to be interesting.

------
aaron695
Important as these stories are to get out, really they are handled by other
news outlets quite well.

Exactly what one learns from one incident, in one state, in one country is
hard to say.

The story has no round up of a greater meaning other than the one incident
which leads the reader without any cause and effect.

Is this American budgets cuts? Is this the problem with counties having to
much power? Is this the militarisation of the police force? What is the trend
here if any?

As per news is bad for you, I think this is one of them. High stress, low
information.

------
andypants
Are police even allowed to do this if they're not in uniform?

I completely understand their reaction to get away when a group of people
suddenly draw their guns and try to force you to get out of the car...

------
jonahx
This story doesn't add up. Why would 7 undercover officers be staking out a
local supermarket to take down 20 year old girls buying beer?

~~~
Ygg2
Budget cuts? Police did weirder things for bonus pay.

Like cause a man a heart attack, by goading him to a bet a large sum (over
some federal minimum). Heart attack was caused by SWAT members assaulting his
house.

EDIT: Note it's not a heart attack they shot him through the heart. It's from
this article [http://www.cracked.com/article_19450_6-laws-youve-broken-
wit...](http://www.cracked.com/article_19450_6-laws-youve-broken-without-even-
realizing-it.html)

~~~
robeasthope
Got a link for that story?

~~~
yfkar
Sounds like two separate stories mixed up.

In the gambling case a SWAT member actually shot the man dead:
[http://reason.com/archives/2011/01/17/justice-for-
sal](http://reason.com/archives/2011/01/17/justice-for-sal)

And here's a story of an elderly woman having a heart attack from a flashbang
in a failed drug raid: [http://gazette.com/grandmother-sues-over-flash-bang-
grenade-...](http://gazette.com/grandmother-sues-over-flash-bang-grenade-
raid/article/126577)

------
venomsnake
To every innocent action there is brutal police overreaction. Newton's long
lost fourth law of physics.

------
tjomk
Happens only in US. The government gets more and more paranoid

------
killercup
So, when I was 17, I bought some cases of beer. When I came out of the
supermarket (with the beer visible in my cart), I walked by some (uniformed
and probably armed) police officers. I greeted them and they wished me a nice
weekend. Because in Germany, police officers are usually quite polite.

~~~
dsego
And in Germany drinking beer is like drinking water ;) (I have one uncle in
Nuremberg and another in Pforzheim).

------
fmavituna
The whole situation is ridiculous but I'm especially interested in this bit:

 _" They were showing unidentifiable badges after they approached us, but we
became frightened, as they were not in anything close to a uniform"_

This happened to me when I was travelling in Europe, a cop without a uniform
approached to me on the train somewhere between Netherlands and Germany and
asked me for my ID. I asked for his ID, he flashed something (obviously I had
no freaking idea whether it was legit, no idea what was even written on it
since I don't know the language).

What do you do in this case? Do you obey or challenge more? Isn't that
dangerous as anyone can flash some random / fake badge and cause you to go
with them, gather private information or worse?

------
vfclists
When are Americans going to see this as essentially an infringement of their
rights as adults? Yes their are adults.

At the age of 20 Americans are old enough to join the army and engage in
combat duty, drive, run bank accounts, be tried as adults and even be
sentenced to death. And yet drinking at the age 20 is perceived as an
imprisonable offence, and law enforcement officers consider it reason to
arrest adults because of that?

Frankly Americans tolerate too much nonsense from their corrupt and
hypocritical law makers.

It seems to be one the laws retained to enable their fascist state to
criminalize their citizens so they can have something to hold over them.

------
shirro
It will be nice to take my son down the pub on his 18th, buy him a nice cold
beer, congratulate him on reaching adulthood and give thanks that we don't
live in a backwood shithole like the USA.

------
alex_doom
To serve and annoy. Thanks for keeping our city safe from the dangerous and
out of control 20 year-old college females. They are quite the scourge on our
modern surburbias.

~~~
VLM
"Thanks for keeping our city safe from the dangerous and out of control 20
year-old college females. They are quite the scourge on our modern
surburbias."

I'm sure there's a "girls gone wild" joke in there somewhere.

------
etherael
These days, as an anarcho capitalist, I just feel like the entire world is
continuously handing me ammunition to justify my position, and I have had
plenty for years.

Both amusing and sad.

------
Uchikoma
Wow, funny country.

------
Vivtek
[http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/bottled-water-purchase-
lea...](http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/bottled-water-purchase-leads-to-
night-in-jail-for-uva/article_b5ab5f62-df9b-11e2-81c4-0019bb30f31a.html)

There's the original article - that hasn't been edited by deleting text and
making later references to it nonsensical.

------
muriithi
What about being arrested for filming the police and getting your dog shot
dead after getting out of the car and lunging at an officer?

[http://reason.com/blog/2013/07/01/get-cuffed-for-filming-
pol...](http://reason.com/blog/2013/07/01/get-cuffed-for-filming-police-your-
dog-g)

------
mosselman
Greatest nation.

------
happywolf
"One jumped on the hood of her SUV; another pulled out a gun": Do the girls
deserve such treatment just because the police suspected they possess alcohol?
Do you need firearms to handle such situation? US looks more and more like a
police state.

------
pezh0re
It sounds like something else is at play here. You wouldn't typically send a
full assault team to grab underage drinkers.

If you were looking for a known fugitive/dangerous suspect that happens to
frequent a grocery store for beer on the other hand...

------
alan_cx
Freedom, hey?

All a bit Sharia, no?

------
chris_wot
There's something very odd about the Virginian Department of Alcohol Beverage
Control. They seem to arrest people for carrying water, but they hold alcohol
tasting sessions in their government owned liquor shops.

------
brianbreslin
As someone who went to UVA, this isn't entirely surprising, but it still
saddens me. The cops there are largely bored, and they put too much emphasis
on the state sanctioned ABC monopoly over liquor.

------
perlpimp
honestly it is fark.com grade material :)

~~~
Nursie
Actually I think I saw this on fark a couple of days ago...

------
muuck
Isn't pulling a gun on a supermarket customer a bit of an overkill?

------
esschul
You silly Americans, you.

------
wallawe
Board members:
[http://www.abc.virginia.gov/admin/board.html](http://www.abc.virginia.gov/admin/board.html)

------
sfall
maybe you don't file charges until you complete an investigation

------
icantthinkofone
My son's a cop. He said what I was thinking. There is far more going on here
than what the story states and the reporter is not asking the right questions
or the agents can't say. In either case, the girl got caught up in something
bigger than the writer says by mistake.

Nothing to see here. Move on.

~~~
demallien
Unless you're suggesting that the girl actually was up to something nefarious,
there absolutely _is_ something to see here. Police should not be drawing
weapons for anything other than an imminate danger to human life.

Watching the police in action is the one negative experience that I have had
in the US. You guys really need to calm your (oversized) police force down -
they're thugs in uniform.

------
monsterix
I don't know if there is a study or theory to support this, but it seems that
the longer any two opposing sides (like the police and criminals) face each
other, the stronger is the influence of one over the other.

To a point when both sides have picked up significant good/bad behavior from
each other. And then the very same police looks both aggressive and
distasteful to the rest of us - i.e those who were not in the loop ever.

Wait, quantum entanglement?

------
workbench
haha wow… America is absolutely hilarious. The fact she was 20 years old is a
great punchline

