
Uber’s No-Holds-Barred Expansion Strategy Fizzles in Germany - mgav
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/04/technology/ubers-no-holds-barred-expansion-strategy-fizzles-in-germany.html?ref=world
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kuschku
Previous discussion on HN here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10830365](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10830365)

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Nursie
I'm surprised this hasn't happened in more places. Perhaps it will.

While the cap on the number of taxis in the city at 1700 does seem ridiculous
and I'm not sure about the need for much in the way of qualifications in the
age of ubiquitous GPS devices, regulated insurance and health requirements are
not unreasonable.

But personally I just don't see the need for Uber - why do I need a global
taxi-megacorp running the show in my town and taking 20%?

We already have several cab services that have apps (complete with map-based
tracking) and allow credit-card payment. Plus they all comply with the various
city rules and regs about carrying passengers, fare transparency etc.

~~~
song
Right now Uber is beneficial because it brings competition in a sector that
used to have none. There's a huge difference in term of service in cities that
have Uber and cities that do not. Taxi service in cities without competition
is awful

Just as an example, when coming back by train late at night I along with 4
other passengers waited at the taxi stand from the train station for 40
minutes to get a taxi (and that is despite having called the central before to
confirm that there would be taxies). And when the first taxi finally arrived,
he refused to allow us to share a taxi to go to different destinations, which
meant more waiting. It's just anecdote, but it's something that's happened
quite often to me and my friends and it's why we're happy that Uber comes to
finally bring some competition.

Of course, if Uber got the monopole on taxi service, I'm under no illusion
that they would be benevolent, any monopolistic situation is detrimental to
service and prices. I believe though that the barrier of entry to compete
against Uber in the future would be much lower than competing against the
current taxi lobbies so I don't think Uber would ever get enough shares of the
market to be a monopole (based on the money they are losing by subsidizing
fares in China and India, I think that owning a big share of the market and
being in a monopolistic position is there plan, I believe it's doomed to fail
though).

~~~
exDM69
> Right now Uber is beneficial because it brings competition in a sector that
> used to have none.

I'd welcome competition if it was fair, but predatory pricing by subsidizing
fares to unsustainable rates (using their unicorn valuation money) and shitty
treatment of drivers - no thanks. Add to that the usual tax evasion schemes of
multinational corporations that Uber surely employs.

I have an excellent taxi service in my home town, albeit a bit expensive. I'll
stick to using it. Same goes for many places I've visited (e.g. Berlin,
Stockholm).

Uber itself isn't illegal here, but the drivers are required to have a taxi
license. Non-compliant drivers have been fined by the police.

There are places where taxi regulation is more of a racket than actual
regulation (I think Paris, France would fit the bill) and that probably should
be challenged by some means.

~~~
song
Based on the prices they have in Europe, I'm not sure how predatory their
prices are (I know that they operate at a loss in China and India). In term of
treatment of drivers, there's also been a lot of issues before in countries
with Taxi companies owning the medaillon and not treating the drivers well
either.

From my experience talking to Uber drivers in Paris and Lisbon, they're often
employed by a separate company that hires them and provide them with a car
(That's uberX, not uberPop though since uberPop is illegal in both of those
countries). The few drivers I met who were independent were quite happy with
the opportunity they had.

In the end, the problem is that in quite a few countries, Taxis are a
regulated business with rules that have been created not for the benefits of
the customers but instead to guarantee the benefits and monopoly of the
existing taxi owners. And Uber (and other companies that are sure to follow in
it's wake if the barrier of entry are lowered) helps counter that.

~~~
exDM69
There is good taxi regulation and there's bad taxi regulation, depends on
which countries we're talking about.

That is why the discussion is so polarized and your opinions are opposite to
mine.

I'm not sure what the situation is where you're from, but here Uber can't
provide any advantages over the local taxi service apart from price (at the
drivers' expense) and supply at some peak hours.

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bitL
Frankly, I don't see any appeal for Uber in Europe - here most Taxis can be
called/booked online and dispatch a car to wherever you are within 5 minutes.
I understand in the US this is difficult and is the main appeal of Uber. Here
in Europe - well, we had this for around 15 years already, what's the point?

~~~
jmspring
It's an incredibly small niche, but for someone from the US traveling to
Europe for business, Uber (and similar apps) are useful to remove the need for
cash (i.e., use credit cards -- particularly corporate Amex) in booking a
ride.

I've used this in Paris and Munich in the last year.

~~~
claudius
> useful to remove the need for cash (i.e., use credit cards -- particularly
> corporate Amex) in booking a ride.

> I've used this in Paris and Munich in the last year.

Did you manage in Munich without cash at all? My expectation would have been
that you needed cash regardless to pay for (most) small things (coffee,
bakeries etc. etc.). Credit or even debit card use is not very widespread,
essentially the only time I use mine is at ATMs and to pay online for services
that don’t support direct debit.

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jagermo
I never used Uber in Munich. It never really came up for me, mostly because of
the excellent public transportation network.

Because of the traffic, whenever possible I use the metro or the tram, busses
if I have to.

The few times I need a car, I just grab one from a carsharing service.

~~~
JoshTriplett
For locals, absolutely agreed. However, for travelers, consider the relative
ease of public transportation versus an Uber or similar, especially if you
don't speak the native language. Public transportation systems can still
potentially work if you've learned the system, have a guide, or have clear
instructions and don't get lost. Without any of those, I personally find it a
lot easier to take an Uber where you want to go than to work out how a local
public transportation system works that I probably won't use again for years.

At conferences where the organizers provide extremely clear directions for
taking public transportation from the airport to the conference venue and
back, I've used it. At any other conference, I generally take an Uber, unless
the local city does the obnoxious thing and bans them from picking up at the
airport.

If some other service existed that worked consistently in every city, I'd try
it.

~~~
kuschku
I went a few weeks ago for the first time in my life to Hamburg.

And I managed to figure out their transit system well enough to know how to
get from where to where. There are plans, it’s simple.

And especially the price difference – 6$ a day with transit, or 20$ for a
dozen kilometers with taxi – is definitely worth it.

------
harryf
> Uber has also asked the European Commission, the executive arm of the
> European Union, to intervene, and an official European investigation into
> Germany’s ban on UberPop — along with similar rulings in France and Spain —
> is expected to be completed sometime this year.

Will be interesting to see how this goes. Uber makes heavy use of lobbyists in
the US [1]. Would the same work with the EU?

[1] [http://uk.businessinsider.com/uber-has-a-huge-group-of-
lobby...](http://uk.businessinsider.com/uber-has-a-huge-group-of-lobbyists-to-
help-it-take-over-the-world-2014-12)

~~~
TeMPOraL
Let's hope not. Though if n=1 observation of how the local startup community
in my city jumped forward to genuflect in front of Uber (and they have
connections) means anything, I wouldn't be surprised. There are a lot of
people who don't know or don't care about Uber's evil side.

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geff82
You are also free to negociate your own fare. The Taxi to the airport costs
40€ at my place, but I get it for 25 by my local taxi driver, night and day.
Uber was more expensive the single time I could legally use it.

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illumen
There are better taxi apps, and ride sharing platforms in Germany too.
Something the article willfully neglected to mention.

