
So You Want to Be a Hero? - jsnell
http://www.filfre.net/2016/09/so-you-want-to-be-a-hero/
======
noelwelsh
I loved Quest for Glory (or Heroes Quest, as it was when my sister and I
purchased the first one) when I was younger. We totally mini-maxed it,
spamming "pick nose" and sneaking everywhere to max out our skills (and of
course we were a thief, because they could do fight and do magic as well.)

What sticks with me, however, is how the story gave the player freedom while
still remaining engaging (exactly the points the article makes). So-called
computer RPGs focused on the most boring parts of role-playing---combat---and
completely ignored the thing that makes RPGs what they are, the player's role
in creating the story! Bards Tale and Wizardry games that are contemporaneous
to Quest for Glory are decidedly weaker sauce. Games like Ultima that tried to
create an open world mostly ended up filling that world with bland variations
on the same theme, and lost any narrative drive through endless side quests.
Although we ground like only kids with nothing better to do can, there was no
need for excessive grinding in Quest for Glory. You could push the story
forward fairly quickly, and every puzzle had multiple solutions.

Totally agreed with 32bitkid that Deus Ex is the closest contemporary game to
Quest for Glory, combining strong narrative with player freedom.

~~~
jeffwass
Whoa, I never knew about the "pick nose" trick, I've played thru the game a
number of times as thief, both the original EGA and the VGA remake.

IMHO, the thief was the best class, the only one where you could get all the
skills. And that's only if you started on QfG I. Starting as any other class,
or a thief in later versions, and at least one of your skills was a zero,
which meant you could never use or improve it (as far as I've ever found out).

~~~
drostie
That's indeed what I remember as well, but in at least one of the sequels it
made sense to transition to a fighter to gain the paladin powers on top of the
rest. Playing for maximum freedom was actually incredibly constraining in
certain ways; I vaguely recall that you get forced by class into a specific
endgame for Trial By Fire.

I have to mention to anyone who stumbles across this comment that there have
been remakes. The QfG1 remake in 1992 was okayish, but I personally preferred
the 16-color version in all its limited glory. But the QfG2 remake in 2011 was
worthy of multiple replays just like the original was:

[http://www.agdinteractive.com/games/qfg2/homepage/homepage.h...](http://www.agdinteractive.com/games/qfg2/homepage/homepage.html)

QfG3 is still playable via DOSBox if you can get a copy of the software. I
want to play QfG4 again and I unfortunately have never played QfG5 as it
landed when I was broke... but I _did_ get a copy of the soundtrack via some
filesharing network at the time, and Chance Thomas's work on that soundtrack
was absolutely gorgeous.

------
CM30
The first quote by Corey Cole on that page is brilliant, and is something so
many game designers shoud probably keep in mind:

> Rule #1 is “The Player Must have Fun.” It’s trivially easy for a game
> designer to “defeat” players. We have all the tools and all the power. The
> trick is to play on the same side as the players, to tell the story
> together, and to make them the stars.

So many game designers (especially amateur ones) seem to think game design is
about screwing over the player at every opportunity. That it's a battle
between the designer and the player, with the aim to make things as difficult
as possible.

And the point about a lot of Sirerra's designers not actually having much
experience playing video games kind of says a lot, doesn't it? Certainly
explains how brutal most of their adventure games were.

~~~
jasonkostempski
Sierra games were some of my favorites. Too many games do way too much hand
holding.

~~~
noelwelsh
I played a lot of Sierra games but Quest for Glory was by far my favourite
series. I think it's totally valid to take different views on game design, and
no doubt there is an audience for may different approaches (e.g. there is a
certain type of person who enjoys bullet hell games, which I find totally
tedious.)

What irked me about most Sierra games is that each puzzle had only a single
solution, and most of those solutions were totally arbitrary. The added "fun"
in the earlier Sierra games was you had to figure out the arbitrary text to
enter to activate the arbitrary solution as well. This is also very apparent
in the Fighting Fantasy books, if you've every played them. The only way this
makes sense to me is to consider dying part of the game and the meta-game,
over many restarts, is the real game. I don't find this very satisfying.

~~~
BuckRogers
Totally agree here too. HQ/QFG was the crown jewel of Sierra, and also their
most underrated title. Space Quest deserves honorable mention. I really
enjoyed getting away from the green grass and castles theme and it didn't take
itself too seriously.

~~~
dvtv75
I loved Space Quest, but when I saw Hero's Quest sitting on the shelf in the
shop, I picked it up, examined it, and then put it back. I didn't know it, and
if it wasn't good it was a waste of around $80. So it sat there for months,
nobody bought it, until eventually the shop discounted it.

My father came home one night, paper bag in hand. Handing it to me, he said
"I've got something for you, it was cheap." I took a look, thought "MEH!" but
put it in the Amiga just to please him.

Six hours later, I realised I should head to bed, but just one more monster!
One more puzzle! I couldn't stop, I think I finally got to bed around 2am.
Woke up the next morning, it was the weekend so no school, computer on, and
away I went for the whole day. Finished it the next day, and then restarted it
as a different class.

Even now, I still get asked about that game from time-to-time. I don't have it
anymore, but YouTube does - he loves the cleaning montage at the castle,
particularly the music.

I never managed to get into the sequel, but since someone's done a remake
(linked to further down the forum) think I might load it up on my iMac and
give it a play.

One of my all-time favourite games, Hero's Quest.

~~~
BuckRogers
Point dad towards gog.com![0]

You could probably use the gog.com version of the game on your Mac if you
don't mind configuring Dosbox on your own. On a Windows machine they work
flawlessly off gog and for $10 for the whole pack.. well, I have a copy. And I
have a shrine to HQ/QFG in my computer room with all the originals on a shelf.

I followed all 5 games from 89 to 98. Sierra's Interaction magazine is what
kept me in the loop. HQ was the most charming by far and an amazing effort for
a preliminary title. QFG2 was the best overall in the series. The combat,
story and settings were more epic than the rest. 3 wasn't bad, I appreciated
the setting and the large overmap continued on the epic feeling from 2. Lots
of people like 4 the best, but I think it's the combination of green
grass/castles theme that certain people seem to love and it was definitely
Lori Cole at her best with the storytelling. While the peak of story for all
the games, the dreary atmosphere wasn't my favorite. 5 was a little wonky
compared to the rest. While I'm biased and do I prefer EGA>VGA>3D, it
basically served to finish up the story. I just don't think VGA aged well at
all and 3D doesn't either unless it's cartoon-style (think Zelda Wind
Waker[1]).

Keep a lookout for Lori & Corey's new game, Hero-U[2]. I don't know what's
wrong with major publishers who won't hire those two and give them free reign.

[0][https://www.gog.com/game/quest_for_glory](https://www.gog.com/game/quest_for_glory)

[1][https://duckduckgo.com/?q=zelda+wind+waker+&t=ffsb&iax=1&ia=...](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=zelda+wind+waker+&t=ffsb&iax=1&ia=images)

[2][http://hero-u.com/](http://hero-u.com/)

------
32bitkid
The quest for glory I VGA remake was the first game I ever purchased with my
own money as a teen; and it made a huge impact on me. (although I honestly
think that qfg2 was the best game in the series). Though the mechanics have
been explored in other games since, I still like to go back and play through
1-5 every now and then. They still hold up surprisingly well, through the
glossy lens of nostalgia.

In fact, just this morning, my little brother asked me if the new dues ex is
worth picking up and I described it as "scratching my itch for the old quest
for glory series"

It's great to read insights into some of these games, though I sometimes worry
about the history of a lot of the influential works in this medium. I'm afraid
it'll get lost and unappreciated, and be unplayable. Can there be a "criterion
collection" for early video games and interactive fiction. Is something that
even matters? Maybe I'm just getting old.

~~~
32bitkid
For those interested in the series, and classic sierra adventure games in
general, be sure to check out AGDI's remake of qfg2

[http://www.agdinteractive.com/games/qfg2/](http://www.agdinteractive.com/games/qfg2/)

They are a super talented bunch and its a worthy remake/homage/labor-of-love
to finalize the series. I kind of wish I had the talent and dedication to
tackle making qfg 5 into the vga style of the rest, and implement some of the
other features that got cut from the final chapter. Cest la vie

~~~
germinalphrase
I get x11 errors when attempting to launch on OS X 10.11

Anyone know a work around?

------
schoen
> Our first (and Sierra’s first) Producer, Guruka Singh Khalsa, taught us the
> “Ken Williams Rule” based on something Robert Heinlein wrote: “That which he
> tells you three times is true.”

Originally written by Lewis Carroll:

    
    
      "Just the place for a Snark!" the Bellman cried,
      As he landed his crew with care;
      Supporting each man on the top of the tide
      By a finger entwined in his hair.
    
      "Just the place for a Snark! I have said it twice:
      That alone should encourage the crew.
      Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice:
      What I tell you three times is true."
    

(See also Appendix ל of the _Illuminatus! Trilogy_.)

------
sztwiorok
Corey and Lori Ann Cole are the best! I can't wait for their new game :)
[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/transolargames/hero-
u-r...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/transolargames/hero-u-rogue-to-
redemption/description)

~~~
psyc
Aw. For a second I thought, "Wow, an actual good Kickstarter?" and went to
check it out. I found another 3-ring circus of "reward tiers", empty promises,
and DukeNukemForeverWare.

~~~
nicolas_t
Quest for Infamy is a kickstarter project that delivered a good quest of glory
like game...

[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/infamousquests/quest-
fo...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/infamousquests/quest-for-infamy-
an-adventure-game-by-infamous-que)

~~~
nyhc99
I played through quest for infamy as the thief character (of course) and I'd
say it was at least as good as QFG3. Not without faults but worthwhile for any
fans of the Coles' games.

------
forgettableuser
Quest for Glory and Sierra fans who enjoyed this article may also really enjoy
"Why We Loved Sierra Games". The Coles and some other Sierra designers said
some nice things about this too.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wua96SI6SBE&list=PLPAVYgFfed...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wua96SI6SBE&list=PLPAVYgFfeddJzax1X4VUj69Z1Vs4PqGlA&index=1)

------
dharma1
Loved all the Sierra games, especially Hero's Quest.

Any recommendations for PG (kids) for something similar today? Deus Ex seems
good but not for under 10... I really loved the fantasy world, the interactive
story telling, and the challenges of the Quest for Glory series.

Would pay good money for a hand painted, well crafted, modern point and click
with an immersive story like this. The 8bit EGA/VGA stuff brings back warm
memories but I don't think that's the thing that made it magical for me.

~~~
danso
Apparently Heroine's Quest, a freeware game from 2014, is quite good
[https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/10/15/freeware-
garden-...](https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/10/15/freeware-garden-
heroines-quest/)

------
Animats
That's the pitch for Ubisoft's "Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon - Wasteland". There
are several different ways to approach the battles.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdJub3Kz2wI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdJub3Kz2wI)

