
4chan's moot takes pro-anonymity to TED 2010 - stumm
http://arstechnica.com/staff/palatine/2010/02/4chans-moot-takes-pro-anonymity-to-ted-2010.ars
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camccann
Ahh, 4chan.

I don't think 4chan, and /b/ in particular, get enough credit for being the...
unique sociological artifact that they are.

There are many that extoll the virtue of "free speech", but how many are able
to gaze unflinching at its unrestrained exercise? The teeming, faceless horde
that is 4chan's population is perhaps the truest, purest exemplar of the free
exchange of ideas; unshackled from the restraints of purpose, propriety,
coherence, and even (at times, on /b/, at least until the moderators notice)
legality.

It is likely impossible, in the course of normal social situations, to escape
certain limitations; be they social, cultural, or even biological. Reputations
are built or destroyed, relationships formed, a complex and pervasive network
of interconnections. A person may be taller than you, or shorter; younger, or
older; attractive or ugly; hesitant or confident; wealthy or poor; or any of
countless factors that subtly, deeply, and inevitably color the way people
interact.

But in an environment like 4chan, all that is stripped away. No status games,
no authority, no obligations, no expectations. What you say one minute matters
not at all the next, crude obscenity and pearls of wisdom alike slipping into
the seething, aimless morass. Cloaked in anonymity, where even the flimsy
identity of a pseudonym is cause for mockery, what emerges is a shocking sort
of honesty. Revolting, yet oddly beautiful; an ever-shifting, ephemeral
monument to every embarrassing thought, guilty pleasure, squelched impulse and
repressed desire--in short, an expression of _humanity_ , in basest form.

...well, either that, or it's just about porn and cat macros. I'm not entirely
sure.

~~~
Perceval
Some credit may be due to Shii, who was the admin on 4chan who implemented
FORCED_ANON on /b/. See: <http://shii.org/knows/Shii>

Some of his thoughts and findings on anonymity can be found here:

<http://shii.org/knows/Anonymous>

<http://blog.topix.com/archives/000106.html>

<http://wakaba.c3.cx/shii/>

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joshu
Moot disagrees.

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nailer
Can you provide more detail?

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joshu
I showed him the comment and he gave a longer response that I don't remember
entirely. But basically it has more to do with the original cloned software.

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slapshot
It always struck me that 4chan is not the most positive example of what
happens when an unlimited number of people are given unlimited anonymity.

Sure, 4chan was there for Anonymous, which engages in some political activity.
But 4chan also spawns a massive amount of graffiti, grossness, shock images,
juvenelia, etc. Most people don't think of 4chan as the brave home of
political protesters; they think of it as in immature dumping ground for memes
and shock porn.

If the goal is really to show the importance of anonymity online, a protester
from Iran or Wikileaks would be taken far more seriously. Sending somebody
from 4chan will just focus attention on the many ways that anonymity is
abused.

~~~
madmanslitany
"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's
time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws
are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to
be stopped at all." - H.L. Mencken

I would agree that it's not the most wholeheartedly positive example, but I
think it's one of the most honest examples in a sense if you really want to
evaluate anonymity on the internet in context and show the bad with the good.

~~~
Perceval
Excellent Mencken quote. Another relevant one: "Man is least himself when he
talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
--Oscar Wilde

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jrockway
I disagree that being non-anonymous on the Internet via social networking
(etc.) is harmful. You can be non-anonymous and still be anonymous when you
want to.

For example, it's clear that I'm jrockway. It says right above my comment. If
you Google the name, you will find that that is pretty close to my real name,
and you can reasonably make a guess about who I really am. (And where I live,
and who I work for, and how old I am, etc.) But that's not really important --
what the world knows about "jrockway" is completely under my control, and
anything posted under that name is intentionally designed to be linked back to
a certain real person.

The important question is, "what other online IDs does that real person have"?
And because of anonymity, you will never know.

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camccann
There's an interesting distinction to be made between _true_ anonymity and
"pseudonymity", though. In particular, a pseudonym identity can eventually
acquire as much baggage as a real identity--the more social connections and
reputation that become associated with an identity, the harder it is for
someone to discard it.

Total anonymity, with no expectation of moment-to-moment continuity, is in
many ways a very different beast.

~~~
whytheluckystif
indeed

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webmat
Quoting Ars:

"but moot didn't speak to the dangers of anonymity"

Not entirely true: he did speak about the guy torturing a cat.

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raptrex
is the video of his talk up yet? I cant find it on the ted site

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rms
They start putting the videos up a few at a time after the TED conference
itself is over. I think it is still going on.

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cdibona
Some take months to go up, from what I hear. It was an okay talk.

