
Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids - pseudolus
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2019/01/paris-metro-tickets-prices-kids-bus-ride-disability-fares/580759/
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zhoujianfu
Why not make it just free for everybody? Public transportation typically has
profit margins of -50% to -90% anyway... just take it to -100% and get a huge
boost in ridership! (And probably save some expenses relating to collecting
payment/enforcement.)

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bsaul
Except a boost in ridership is absolutely not what you’d want in an
overpopulated city like Paris. Subway is so bad i’ve already witnessed people
waiting for trains from outside the station itself.

in the peak hours you often have to skip two or three trains because they’re
packed.

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adrianN
The alternative to a boost in ridership is a boost in car commutes. You want
that even less in a city like Paris.

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darkpuma
> _The alternative to a boost in ridership is a boost in car commutes._

Or walking... Do you walk a quarter mile or do you ride the bus? If the bus is
free the number of able bodied people using the bus for trivial distances
could increase.

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vvillena
You walk. Riding a bus means you have to wait for one first. A 5 minute walk
isn't worth the wait unless there are extra conditions (no walkways, ice on
the walkways, heat wave...).

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bobthepanda
No, but a fifteen or twenty minute walk or bike ride can lose out to a free
bus. At least some walkers will be enticed onto the bus, which will require
more capacity, which will then improve frequency, which will then attract some
more walkers, rinse and repeat.

Above a certain frequency buses become extremely unreliable and dwell times
start impacting travel time because bus stops only have so much room. With
trains you have more room to work with, but once you run out the marginal cost
of building new lines runs in the hundreds of millions, if not billions of
dollars.

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Simulacra
Public transport should be free for everyone, and that is something I'm
willing to pay higher taxes for. If it's free more people will use it, which
will justify more investment.

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systemtest
I don't think that is fair to taxpayers that don't use public transport
because they walk, bike or use a car.

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mxuribe
I live and work in a suburb of NYC...and effectively MUST drive
everywhere...and that sucks. I would happily pay more taxes IF they were
devoted to supporting and upgrading and growing any/all public transit; and of
course bringing any cost down to users/citizens. (I would much rather be able
to take public transit myself to work instead of driving.)

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Kurtz79
Out of curiosity, why can't you use the existing transit system?

I travel often to NYC and it doesn't seem much different to those of many
major European cities, at least in terms of reach.

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lostmsu
When I was a kid, I loved free transportation in my city. I could get on a bus
off peak hours, and make a trip or two around the whole city, just staring out
the window. Sometimes I wonder if that was a significant part of what made me
who I am.

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abalone
Little tip for anyone living in SF (fair percentage of this website): All
minors can ride muni free if their family is at or below the Bay Area medium
income, which is $115K for a family of four.[1]

[1] [https://www.sfmta.com/fares/free-muni-
youth](https://www.sfmta.com/fares/free-muni-youth)

~~~
hopler
Ugh, what's the point of making rich kids pay? Just to make it awkward for
rich kids and normal kids traveling together?

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abalone
You can’t tell. It’s a free RFID pass that looks the same as anyone else’s.

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MrTonyD
Hong Kong makes 2 billion a year on public transportation. They did that by
giving the land around the station to the transportation agency, so they lease
it out long term, and that pays for all the trains and operations. They charge
a token fee for using public transportation.

I'd prefer to see real public support, rather than a business/profit
justification for lower fares, but in the current greed-valued world I'll
settle for a greed justified way to create a community good.

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masonic

      makes 2 billion a year on public transportation
    

No, they make money on _real estate_ to offset their losses on transit.

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so33
Actually, no. The MTR’s farebox recovery is over 100%. They make a profit on
fares and make even more money on real estate.

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MrTonyD
I remember reading that they were able to cover all the costs because of
accounting categorizations that they could consider only because they had the
real estate. But I don't really know - that's just what some article was
saying.

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Angostura
Sounds like a good idea. Transport for London already does this.

~~~
agumonkey
In France, Lille did make it free for all. This is probably helpful to reduce
car needs.

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a3_nm
Are you sure about public transportation being free in Lille? (I've been there
often and I've never heard of that.)

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agumonkey
I'm not entirely sure.. my memories are fuzzy.

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Fishkins
When I was in Lille several years ago, you were supposed to buy a ticket but
it really wasn't enforced at all. The ticket machines were to the side of the
train entry, and there were no turnstiles or anything like that. My first time
I got on without even realizing I was supposed to pay.

~~~
vinay427
This is the norm for nearly every form of transit in Switzerland and Germany,
among a few other countries. I use buses and trams daily as well as urban
trains and seem to be checked every 1-2 months, on average.

It works partly because the fines are relatively significant and levels of
public trust and integrity are likely more universal, so there are few
"Schwarzfahrers" (fare dodgers, literally "black travelers").

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kaybe
I've had to tell tourists the local transit is not free though, so maybe it
needs to be marked better for them.

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vinay427
Out of curiosity, where was this?

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kaybe
Heidelberg.

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efrafa
In Slovakia trains are free for students and seniors. [0] Most people see this
very negatively.

[0] [https://www.slovakrail.sk/en/zero-
fare.html](https://www.slovakrail.sk/en/zero-fare.html)

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andys627
Why is it seen negatively?

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kgwgk
Making things free can increase demand beyond what’s reasonable (for example,
there was recently someone in the press explaining how, thanks to moviepass,
he would enter a cinema just to go to the restroom). Maybe old people take
trains just because they can, taking capacity from paying customers that
really need the train to get to work or whatever.

~~~
yrf
I've seen that. In my small town, taking the bus is free for senior citizens.
So they sit there all day and socialise because they simply have nothing
better to do.

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masonic
There is an entire community of homeless who ride the all-night VTA buses
across Silicon Valley.

VTA likes this because it artificially inflates their census.

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IvanK_net
In Prague (Czech Republic), public transport is completely free for people
under 11 and above 70 :)

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novaRom
All trains and public transport is free for kids under 6 in Germany

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jaxn
In Nashville, public transit is free for all public high school students and
most middle school students. The school system reimburses the transit
authority for those rides.

It allows kids to participate in more after-school activities (when school
busses don't run). But yeah, they also go to the mall on the weekend.

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jwr
Warsaw made public transportation free for school-age kids (must show valid
school id if prompted) about two years ago, which I think was a great move.

It's not really about the cost: this move makes it easier (in many ways) to
use public transportation to get your kid to school. It means you don't have
to think or worry about your child's tickets, buying or validating them. You
just hop on and ride, only remembering about your fare (presumably you already
have a way of paying, I use my phone to pay).

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codereflection
Seattle does this for kids in middle school and high school. Each kid gets an
Orca card for free (transit card that we use in the Seattle area). Lots of
kids use them, even the kids who travel ~10 miles to get to their school. I
know it's saved me a lot of money in gas and bus fare over the years with my
kids getting this benefit. The only down side is that the cards are only good
for during the school year.

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masonic
Odd that they name a card for kids after a vicious predator.

~~~
passivepinetree
It stands for One Regional Card for All and it ties into an area wildlife.
Orcas are commonly seen in local Native American art, mythology, etc. and are
generally well-regarded. Local news often runs stories about certain whales in
area pods. It’s not as weird as you’d think if you don’t live here.

~~~
masonic

      are generally well-regarded
    

I didn't say they are _evil_ , just that they are ruthless predators. They're
a natural element of their ecosystem, playing a longstanding role in it.

But I still feel for the humpback calves.

~~~
Baeocystin
Krillist.

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d--b
Note that the city’s mayor is up for re-election in 2020.

This move isn’t going to change much. Children under 4 already don’t pay, and
children under 10 pay half price. But overall it’s fairly rare to see kids
commute by subway in Paris. Most kids go to school not far from where they
live.

For those who may believe that this is going to increase the number of kids
begger in the subway, I’d say that these guys already don’t pay...

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entity345
Currently it's free under 4 and half price under 10. Considering that it's not
expensive to begin with this is really PR more than anything else.

~~~
hycaria
Yup and I've not seen many children that would use tickets and not go through
with their parents. Or they have passes of their own if needed for school
commute.

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_eLRIC
Good initiative However, Paris city council elections are due in 2020 ...
difficult not to see a direct link with this happening end of 2019

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benj111
I find it interesting to contrast this with the situation just over the
channel. In the UK, over 65s get free bus passes.

Why has each country come down on different sides of who is deemed most
'deserving'? What's the rationale for targeting one group or the other?

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Balero
In the UK, old people vote far more than young people do. Additionally the
party that has been in charge for almost a decade is focused on this older
section of the electorate. They are famously unpopular with younger people.

Why would they 'waste' money on people that would never vote for them anyway?

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benj111
The policy was announced by Labour.
[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8186848.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8186848.stm)

But yes, good point.

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hourislate
Toronto made public transportation free for children under 12 years of age 3
years ago.

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agigao
Public Transport has been free for kids/teenagers(under 18) in Tbilisi,
Georgia(The Caucasus), for almost a decade. And 40% of the fare for studens.

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Markoff
this is quite common in central Europe, not sure what it's making Paris
newsworthy

in Prague anyone under 15 travel for free (need to get is card which cost less
than euro) and even adult accompanying toddler under 3 travel for free, of
course retired people above 65-70 have everywhere in central Europe free
travel

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bronlund
Finally! No more pesky kids :P

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bkmeneguello
This is a bad idea: The ticket price will raise for everyone else or the
taxes, remember "there is no free rides"

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ahmedalsudani
Yeah, God forbid anybody pays an extra Euro per ride to provide kids with some
freedom of travel in their city.

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ndnxhs
"The kids should buy a car to get around like everyone else"

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Jerry2
I visited Paris in January of 2016 and was shocked how badly maintained Paris
metro was. Here's a vid from 2018 that went viral last year and I can see
things haven't improved. Everything's in shambled and things are failing
apart. I'm actually amazed that they haven't had any major accidents yet.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuEDuye-
JmE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuEDuye-JmE)

I definitely wouldn't let kids under 15-16 ride alone.

