
OccupySandy is like a startup - SandersAK
http://backspac.es/r/DBayz5eG9x
======
guelo
Occupy is absolutely not like a startup where you have a top-down CEO trying
to generate a culture that promotes getting shit done. Occupy works on
socialist/anarchist principles and is more like a worker co-op. If you want to
get something done you have to start off by putting in the work, then as other
people see you being effective they join in and contribute their own energy
and ideas. Unfortunately this kind of organization, while good at empowering
individuals, is bad at quick tactical responses such as when facing a well
organized adversary like the local politicians and police.

~~~
EthanHeilman
I think many start ups are de-facto anarchist in the sense that tasks and
decisions are made laterally and without regard for status. In fact most human
organisations reflect anarchist principals at the small scale, the anarchist
program is merely an attempt at scaling these tendencies.

>If you want to get something done you have to start off by putting in the
work, then as other people see you being effective they join in and contribute
their own energy and ideas.

This sounds exactly like a start-up and the way occupy is/was organized.

The spirit of iterate like mad, fail quickly and replicate successful ideas,
much of which comes from modern military thinkers (for instance John Boyd's
OODA loop -<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop> ). Such theories actually
have deep utility in adversarial settings.

>Unfortunately this kind of organization, while good at empowering individuals
is bad at quick tactical responses such as when facing a well organized
adversary, such as local politicians and police.

I would argue this form of organisation is excellent at quick tactical
responses, but generally bad at longer range strategic plans (which is
generally ok, since long term strategic planning is near impossible at the
tempo of modern business/conflicts). Look at the shift in military affairs
toward pushing decision making down the change of command (what is often
called network centric warfare).

~~~
SandersAK
yes! you said this way better than I did.

also to your point of chain of command - i used to work as a forest fire
fighter and I can tell you that chain of command is definitely a contentious
issue. It really does need to be a give and take where you can draw on the
macro advantages of someone higher up but rely on actionable decisions from
people on the front lines.

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littlegiantcap
These are just the general characteristics of any effective organization. I
really don't see how Occupy Sandy is anything like a startup though. Steve
Blank defines a startup as "a startup is an organization formed to search for
a repeatable and scalable business model."

Copying the tactics of existing disaster response organizations (albeit with a
grass roots spin) Is hardly anything like a startup.

~~~
SandersAK
I think it's fair that most effective organizations do the same things. One
thing that stands out there is the lack of rigid hierarchy in decision making.
If you want to start making PB&Js to help out you can, you don't need to
register, get orientation etc.

I also think that Occupy Sandy is building a repeatable and scalable output -
that is relief effort for a disaster. They iterate constantly on their ability
to gather, parse, and disseminate donation goods and manpower.

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tokenizer
This was one thing I really enjoyed about camping out at Occupy last year.
Most of the people being involved at the 'getting shit done' level, wanted to
get stuff done, respected other's opinions, and left their ego in their tent.

~~~
untog
Not to be devil's advocate too much, but if that was the case then why was
nothing ever done?

To the outsider, Occupy (Wall St, at least) was the very opposite of "getting
shit done"- it had the world's attention for a number of weeks and appeared to
do absolutely nothing with it, before fading away.

~~~
SwellJoe
You've been misinformed, on all fronts, and that's not surprising, given the
way it has been portrayed in mainstream media. It's endlessly amusing, but
also a little disturbing, to me that Occupy has been declared dead,
continually, since almost its first few days of existence over a year ago.
And, yet, every time an Occupy thing shows up (which is frequently; Occupy
events and actions are happening every single day across the US) the news
reports it as an isolated anomaly ("Occupy Wall St. had one last gasp today."
and a week later act shocked, or, more likely, simply ignore it, when some new
Occupy event or action happens).

This is another example of that downplaying of the reality of OWS; "Oh, my
goodness! You mean OWS still exists? I had no idea!" While thousands of
Occupiers help the poorest neighborhoods get back on their feet...the only
reason you hear about it, is because it's too big to ignore, though there's
certainly plenty of folks trying to continue to ignore it. Maybe you should be
asking why the media you trust is misrepresenting a mainstream movement like
this on a continual basis, and for whose benefit?

OWS changed the political landscape in pretty dramatic ways, and continues to
do so (and to deny that is to deny reality). But, for the folks who expected
OWS (and Occupy groups nationwide) to take up the "Tea Party of the Left"
mantle, and do politic-y things, like electing candidates to office, it looks
like a failure. But, it wasn't and isn't a Tea Party of the left, and baked
right into its very being is a set of values and a culture that would make
such an outcome very unlikely (and undesired by most of its participants).

Occupy folks are very likely involved in every activist community in your
city, right now. They may not even be involved in an Occupation anymore, and
there may not be a very active local Occupation in your city (though you might
be surprised; there's one still quite active here in Austin, and I know
SF/Oakland, NYC, Chicago, and many others are still active)...but OWS or a
local Occupation is what turned them from an armchair activist into one who
goes outside and does things. That's true for a huge swath of people, and I
think its impact has been wildly underestimated.

~~~
jlarocco
Who's fault is that?

With the internet it would be easier than ever for OWS to get their message
out, but they're not.

You can't protest the rich and then turn around and expect them to promote you
on their TV stations.

~~~
mkr-hn
> _With the internet it would be easier than ever for OWS to get their message
> out, but they're not._

Where did you get that idea?

[https://www.google.com/search?q=occupy+movement&hl=en...](https://www.google.com/search?q=occupy+movement&hl=en&tbo=d&source=lnms&tbm=nws)

~~~
jlarocco
Which idea? That it's easier than ever to get a message out? Or that OWS is
failing to do so?

The person I replied to said, "You've been misinformed, on all fronts..." and
then made a bunch of claims that OWS is doing stuff, but didn't provide any
references to back it up. Supposedly, "OWS changed the political landscape in
pretty dramatic ways, and continues to do so (and to deny that is to deny
reality)." I'll stop denying it when I see evidence of it.

~~~
mkr-hn
The Google News results I linked to contain plenty of examples of Occupy
getting its message out and doing things. This thread is based on a story
about Occupy doing a thing and getting its message out.

What more do you need?

------
gadders
Full of hipsters?

------
pyrotechnick
Natural disasters are a blessing in disguise; at least for those who survive.

Gaia often reminds us here in Australia that no matter how much we plan, how
safe we feel, despite how high we build our dams, we're ultimately at her
mercy.

The sense of community recent events seemed to extract from what is otherwise
a reasonably un-spirited populace was nothing short of phenomenal. Humanity
indeed possesses great redeeming qualities.

I wish all the best to anyone effected by the recent events. And my heart goes
out to the friends and families of those less fortunate.

Please. Try to see it for what it is. An opportunity to rekindle your
relationship with nature. To reflect on what's truly important. To fill the
voids with something even greater than before.

~~~
gadders
That must be a lot of comfort to people who have had their house washed away.

~~~
pyrotechnick
Way to shoot the messenger. It's nature you should be upset with; as it is
very much upset with you.

All those houses of sticks built on shifting sands.

All those priceless, irreplaceable material possessions.

What a tragedy!

Didn't the three little pigs teach you anything?

~~~
gadders
I'm not sure if this is not some incredible satire that is too subtle for me
to recognise, but I suspect if you were to repeat this message on parts of the
Jerser Shore they might quite literally shoot the messenger.

