
Noise Protection for Short Term and Vacation Rentals - wehadfun
https://www.noiseaware.io/
======
alvarop
I've been using the Point([https://minut.com/](https://minut.com/)), which is
half the price and no annual fee.

I mostly use it for temperature/humidity sensing, but it also has sound level
logging/alerts.

~~~
frenchman_in_ny
NetAtmo [0] does the same thing as well -- full weather sensor suite, similar
pricepoint to NoiseAware, no annual subscription.

[0]
[https://www.netatmo.com/product/weather/weatherstation](https://www.netatmo.com/product/weather/weatherstation)

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mox1
Considering this is recording (or at lest intercepting and processing in some
form) audio in a place where most people have an expectation of privacy, I
assume you have to inform the renter that this is on and monitoring....

~~~
svens_
Don't worry, they thought about that:

 _Guests ' privacy is always protected. Our patent pending technology ensures
that no content is recorded_

It's patented, so it must be good.

Sarcasm aside, I really wonder what's in that patent... I mean it must
(should) exist, otherwise it should be "pending".

~~~
robryk
Given that variable bit-rate VoIP can reveal words spoken from bitrate
alone[1], I would be very cautious about their claims.

[1]
[https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/06/eavesdropping...](https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/06/eavesdropping_o_2.html)

~~~
svens_
I doubt their "signal processing" involves anything more than a microphone and
a peak detector.

A more practical side channel attack would probably be through radiated
emissions over the mains power. However if you're willing to go that far, a
laser microphone is much more effective and simpler.

~~~
robryk
Depending on how wide is the peak detection window, they might send enough
data to detect how long consecutive words are. I have a vague impression that
I've read once that this, together with a language model, can be used to guess
what's being spoken ~10% of the time or so.

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Skunkleton
I assume hardware wise this is a cheap microphone, a microcontroller, and a
wifi chip? Software wise, they have a data logger and some sort of
notification push? What justifies the $150, and the $200/year subscription? I
don't see those prices being sustainable.

~~~
blackguardx
Can't you say the same thing about any piece of software as well? It costs
next to $0 in bandwidth to download an app or program. Why should the price be
higher than $0?

Hardware costs a lot of money to develop and manufacture. There have been a
lot of posts on HN recently about the price of hardware. Niche hardware like
this doesn't cost next to nothing when made in small quantities. All the fixed
NREs (all the prototype costs, the plastic mold tooling, any upfront factory
fees, etc.) have to be amortized over the few units sold. And that is just
breaking even. Selling goods at cost is a tricky business model. It makes
sense to add in a little profit.

If you don't like the price, then you probably shouldn't buy it. If enough
people agree with you, they will either change their price or go out of
business.

~~~
cptskippy
> Niche hardware like this doesn't cost next to nothing when made in small
> quantities.

You could use some off the shelf components like an ESP8266 or ESP32 module to
dramatically reduce your cost. A hand full a discrete components, an electret
microphone, auto gain amplifier, and a voltage regulator aren't going to set
you back more than $10. A custom PCB is going to be $5 per unit max. The BOM
is easily under $20 for a limited run of 10 to 20 units.

The most expensive things are going to be the enclosure and assembly. If you
find an off the self enclosure then your costs drop considerably.

You could have a working prototype cobbled together in a day.

~~~
blackguardx
Your one day prototype will costs thousands to bring to market. Lets look at
just the electronics. Have you priced out FCC certification? The wifi module
might be already certified, but the whole product isn't. That is $5k to $10k
minimum for US only. It also plugs into mains, which means it might need UL
certification to it won't burn down someone's house.

Your $20 BOM just gets you a board and loose components, not a complete
product. The cost of a complete product is called "cost of goods sold" or COGS
and includes things like assembly, testing, and shipping, etc. Even if $20 was
your COGS, how much would you have to charge to make a profit? It all depends
on how many you sell. If you only intend to sell 1000 or so (likely the case
here), you need to charge accordingly.

~~~
cptskippy
> The wifi module might be already certified, but the whole product isn't.
> That is $5k to $10k minimum for US only.

If you're using Pre-certified modules then you can qualify the remainder of
your product as unintentional radiator and the FCC certification cost is
$1k-2k.

> It also plugs into mains, which means it might need UL certification to it
> won't burn down someone's house.

UL certification isn't mandatory, UL isn't a government organization and
there's no legal requirement to have your device certified by them.

> Even if $20 was your COGS, how much would you have to charge to make a
> profit? It all depends on how many you sell. If you only intend to sell 1000
> or so (likely the case here), you need to charge accordingly.

My point is that $150 plus an annual subscription fee is steep for such a
simple product. Per unit cost on a very limited run (e.g. 1000 units) doesn't
justify a $150 price, especially if you're charging a subscription on top of
that.

~~~
blackguardx
I've never seen unintentional radiator testing under $5k. What lab does your
testing?

UL isn't mandatory, but do you want your product stocked by retailers? You
might need it then.

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bogomipz
I think this seems like a terrible product, here is why:

Call 1:

AirBnB host: "Hey I've just got an alert that the noise level has gone above X
decibels"

AirBnB guest: "Oh hmm it looks like the city is jack hammering the street in
front of the house."

Call 2:

AirBnB host: "Hey I just got another alert about noise!"

AirBnB guest: "A bunch of fire trucks went by, there's a fire down the street"

Call 3:

AirBnB host: "I just got an alert that you unplugged my noise meter!"

AirBnB guest: "No I didn't but it looks like your internet is down."

While three of these happening consecutively is maybe unlikely just one of
them occurring makes both parties uncomfortable and presents an awkward
situation. And who is to say what reasonable is? A neighbor can complain even
if the noise is under the threshold.

This just feels like nanny-nation to me. The real issue is that if you don't
know people well enough to trust them to be respectful towards your neighbors
then maybe you shouldn't be renting them your place. And yes the same can be
said of renting to a longterm renter as both parties enter into the contract
with no prior knowledge of the other but the difference is that long term
renters generally have a vested interest in being a considerate neighbor since
it is now their home.

~~~
yellow_viper
I'd just wrap socks around it.

~~~
bogomipz
LOL. I didn't see anything in the FAQ bout it being sock-proof? Maybe the
second revision with have this feature?

------
feedjoelpie
I am suddenly unreasonably angry that this exists. Not because of the product
itself, which is clever.

But because this is how normalized the u̶n̶r̶e̶g̶u̶l̶a̶t̶e̶d̶ illegal short
term rentals have become, that especially in some tourist-heavy regions are
creating long-term housing shortages that displace residents. (See New
Orleans, where housing prices have skyrocketed without any commensurate boost
in residents' incomes to compensate, and it really is just that homes are
being converted into hotels.)

~~~
sampo
> are creating long-term housing shortages that displace residents

This could be avoided, if the cities would be willing to allow building more
homes in the areas where demand is high. (Usually it's even the same people
opposing building new homes and at the same time complaining about the rising
prices. Very illogical.)

~~~
pasbesoin
And suddenly your tourist-y locale is transformed into "just another
cityscape."

Not to make light of the need for affordable housing. But, the problem with
respect to AirBnB and the like is not simply to "build more."

Zoning, regulations, and such grew up over decades, in response to needs. Not
"just because."

AirBnB and the like, as I've commented elsewhere, essentially crowd-source an
"end run" around limited resources for enforcement.

Arbitraging short-term rental demand against limited, taxpayer-funded (and
often not even supplemented by e.g. hotel taxes that traditional short-term
rental establishments have to pay) enforcement.

In my personal experience, I have had an abusive level of disregard for the
common welfare exhibited by a few neighbors. Absent effective control, it
really can "ruin" a building or a neighborhood.

This has left me with exactly zero sympathy for the AirBnB crowd. Especially
after the all-to-frequent horror stories I've read -- thought admittedly, the
press and public attention seek the extremes for the sake of sensation. But
even just in more level-headed, unpromoted comments here on HN and elsewhere.
The "sharing" economy too often takes its advantage by dumping on its
surroundings and reducing the quality of life for others.

By all means, build more housing. In a sustainable fashion and enjoyable
design. I've advocated for creating regulation and code that requires noise-
reducing materials and construction techniques in new construction. Among
other things, this could well make shared dwellings more attractive,
increasing density and resource efficiency while maintaining aspects of
quality of life such as simply having a safely peaceful home.

But don't promote "build more" as a simple sop for the problems AirBnB and
unregulated "sharing" bring to the table. Don't turn other people's homes,
often against their will, into "the hotel room next door."

------
Johnny555
I always figured that the hidden camera that the AirBnB host uses to spy on me
already had a microphone so they can monitor my noise level directly....

------
r1ch
This is ripe for a Chinese rip-off at those prices.

~~~
ultrafez
I imagine that you could build a functional equivalent with an ESP8266, a
power adapater, and a Twilio account - no server required, since you should be
able to measure volume directly on the ESP8266 itself. The parts would cost
you less than $20 - probably less than $10.

~~~
TeMPOraL
NodeMCU (basically ESP8266 + USB-to-serial and power over USB) is ~$3, if you
can find a reliable USB charger for less than $7, then this project will
definitely cost less than $10 in parts.

------
wehadfun
They charge a $200 annual fee

~~~
AtheistOfFail
That's pricy...

~~~
ithinkinstereo
It's insanely cheap if you're one of the many "landlords" that have turned
their properties into AirBnB-only money printing machines. In NYC/SF a 1-2
night stay covers the cost for this easy.

------
huac
What does it mean to be a "HomeAway Official Partner"?

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pikzen
I find it hilarious that this product exists. For so many reasons. A noise
meter for your (most likely illegaly) rented apartment so your neighbors
aren't bothered. I wonder how else that could be fixed... Oh right,
regulations on noise and distance to housing, which every hotel has to follow,
but AirBnb's litlle grey area abuse scheme miraculously gets to avoid it.

~~~
arjie
Regulations don't make things not be noisy. They mandate that things not be
noisy. Then someone has to go make sure that when things are getting noisy, it
stops. In a hotel, that'll be the hotel manager when the other guests or the
neighbours complain. This is a proactive means to avoid that.

I mean, it's not like saying "Don't make a huge amount of noise in my
apartment" enforces that you can't. You can still do it.

~~~
pikzen
Except you're going to have a terrible time building a new hotel complex in
the middle of already existing apartments. The bill for sound insulation is
going to be massive. And if you get inspected and it turns your you are not
within the regulations, the fine is going to be a fun one too. Therefore, new
hotels are built somewhat isolated from existing housing, or take up an entire
building.

As opposed to a random person just renting his apartment and getting a tap on
the wrist eventually.

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infinitone
This feels like it can just be implemented by an Alexa skill? Would anyone be
interested?

~~~
cheeze
How? Don't you need to wake Alexa for the skill to work? What happens if they
unplug the Alexa?

~~~
halfdan
What happens if they unplug this thing? "Sorry I needed the outlet and this
thing looked kinda useless."

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lowglow
Put a towel over it.

~~~
anotheryou
haha, why is the best comment at the bottom of the page?

~~~
lowglow
My comments have been forever anchored to the botttom by the mods/admins. :)

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losteverything
Is there a hand held gadget I can use when I first enter my rental to
determine and locate listening devices and/or video?

I'll buy or gift one.

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jeffehobbs
Well, that's creepy as fuck. If you're going to do this, why not also go ahead
and don't rent your space out.

------
ryanisnan
Example of something nobody needs.

