
Ask HN: How is your PPP loan application coming along? - AndrewBissell
My wife and I run a small winery with about $400,000 in annual sales and a monthly payroll of about $4,000. The COVID-19 situation dealt a blow to our sales and cash flow so we submitted an application for a PPP loan with Mechanics Bank, where we keep our business checking account. So far, the process has looked like this:<p>On April 6 we submitted an application to the bank&#x27;s portal, which included the standard federal form with information like average payroll and headcount.<p>On April 8 we received an email saying that we needed to submit some additional information, which just turned out to be repetition of payroll information we had already listed on the federal form.<p>On April 13 we received another email asking us to submit ownership details for any equity holders in our LLC.<p>It&#x27;s now April 17 and we have not heard anything back. If I call the bank&#x27;s number, I get a recording which says they&#x27;ll process our application as soon as possible and they&#x27;re unable to provide status updates over the phone.<p>Now I&#x27;m reading reports that the program is already out of money. If this is what&#x27;s supposed to help small- and medium-sized businesses weather the pandemic, it is not inspiring much confidence. Have others had a similar experience?
======
ta1679389
Throwaway, because I work for a bank doing PPP. First off, I want to say I
feel for anyone struggling - I know from my exposure a lot of loans didn't get
in. We had random people from all over the bank working nights and weekends
trying to get these loans into the SBA. The news didn't do justice how much of
a disaster this program was with the SBA. For example during training, the SBA
app crashed 11 times while trying to enter one application - and this was
after hours. We spent days on the phone trying to get someone to get us access
to the SBA's API - no one could help us. In the end, a lot of loans didn't end
up getting into the system.

Second off, we're already tooling up for the second round of SBA to get more
loans through the system by eliminating a lot of manual processing. So have
some hope and contact your reps and senators - we're already getting ready to
get loans through once they open up the program again.

~~~
ta1587192583
Also a throwaway for the same reason.

We are facing the same issues here. We are struggling to even get SBA logins
created to add additional manpower to the manual process. I'm curious how
paypal was able to push these loans through so quick, I'm assuming they have
some API access that is difficult to obtain.

We are also trying to implement some automation for the second round. If you
are able to share are you building that or implementing a 3rd party product?
We are looking at a few 3rd party apps and have a few hopeful candidates that
look like they will help.

------
achenatx
Most big banks completely screwed their clients. You can read
reddit/r/smallbusiness

1) The SBA was approving PPP submissions in like an hour (rubberstamping).

2) Any delay was 100% your bank. Many banks just didnt get to applications but
didnt notify people. Some banks said people were approved (by the bank) but
didnt submit those people to the SBA

3) There was a lot of time to submit to intermediaries like paypal. Paypal was
turning applications around in 24 hours to funding. There were people that
applied on 4/3 with a big bank that didnt get it and people that applied
thursday night through paypal that got it

4) Big banks often added additional criteria which made it harder to complete
the application. Some big banks were not using the correct calculations

5) Once you have an SBA loan number you are good and money is allocated. Banks
have 10 days to disburse the funds

6) The SBA ran out of allocated funds, not all the money has been disbursed.

7) People submitted to multiple lenders and it was fine

Overall I think the program went pretty well and there was plenty of time for
people to get applications in. There was obviously working of the system
(hedge funds, large restaurant chains, etc) but if you look at the
distribution of funds there were still many many small loans.

750K under $150K with an average of $51K

I spent the last 2 weeks doing nothing but reading reports, stats etc about
the program to ensure I was able to get it for my team. Lots of people
submitted with a big bank and just waited accepting no updates, now are
complaining after it is over.

~~~
GarrisonPrime
My business bank (Wells Fargo) didn't even begin taking applications until the
day before the money ran out.

My personal bank (Bank of America) flat-out refused to talk to me, since I'd
never had a business credit or loan through them.

Quickbooks is apparently planning something, but of course have nothing ready
yet.

PayPal never mentioned to me they were an option. I've logged into my business
account with them daily since this all began. Not a peep. Not an email. Not a
notification anywhere on the page. Nada.

I scoured the SBA page daily - hell, three times a day - checking up on my
EIDL application and also looking for any update on them offering PPP. Never
saw anything, despite many people asserting like you are that it was there all
along and early.

It's like you're from a completely different reality.

~~~
dannyw
SBA should have just distributed the money directly without overhead.

A year later, we can hire lots of investigators to verify the loans and pursue
any fraud.

~~~
mikeyouse
I’ve always thought it would make sense to attach specific penalties to this
type of legislation. Something akin to “If you lie on an application, your
loans won’t be forgiven and you will need to pay a 50% penalty. If you’re a
bank and you knowingly facilitate this fraud, you will lose Federal backing
for the loans and your employees and executives will be subject to minimum 1
year sentences in Federal custody.”

It’s unfortunate we live in such a weird carceral state yet white collar
crimes that would probably be the type most deterred by the threat of prison
are so rarely prosecuted.

~~~
sseveran
If those kind of risks were imposed on banks they would only work with
businesses they knew very well or not at all. As it is there were significant
questions from the banks side on what they would be liable for if the loan was
ultimately found to be invalid, or fraud.

~~~
toomuchtodo
That’s why you cut the banks out of the process as the poster you replied to
suggested.

------
curo
Silicon Valley Bank vs my local bank:

SVB:

    
    
      - SVB loses a big check of ours for a week prior to PPP
      - SVB takes 1 week to get their newly developed PPP portal active
      - SVB prioritizes new clients and bigger accounts (allegedly, see Twitter screenshots)
      - Delays and bugs once it's live
    

Local Bank:

    
    
      - Local bank tracks and finds lost check, makes except to deposit
      - Local bank puts out a low-tech, but reliable DocuSign PPP form the day after announcement (and 6 days before SVB's portal taking PPP apps)
      - Local bank prioritizes existing clients 
      - No bugs, you can connect with them in <10 mins to talk to a rep

~~~
manigandham
Silicon Valley Bank is the worst bank I've ever used and we deeply regret ever
choosing them. The archaic tech, few physical branches, limited hours,
expensive services, and little unique offering other than venture debt makes
it a poor choice for the majority of startups. There is nothing "Silicon
Valley" about SVB other than their staff salaries being the highest of any
public bank.

~~~
snazz
I wonder why Stripe Atlas chose to partner with them for the banking part of
their service. It doesn't seem like SVB aligns with Stripe's ethos.

~~~
adrr
Because smaller banks don't have the compliance team or technology to allow
other companies to manage accounts. There's only a few banks that do this. All
the challenger banks mainly use the same banks. The core bank systems don't
support multi-tenant, most were designed in 90s or 80s and sometimes 70s. The
bank needs to build a middle tier to control access so accounts are separated
between companies. Protocols to these systems are terrible, its pretty much a
terminal and you are reading columns and line positions to get data. SVB i
think actually runs a pretty modern core bank system that has "modern" API,
probably soap.

~~~
manigandham
Why does any of that matter here? Atlas just sends an application to the bank
on your behalf. It doesn’t manage anything.

------
jedberg
My business account is with Chase.

Applied on the first day they opened their portal, which was a few days after
the program started.

Got an error on the second page of the app when I told them I am C Corp, was
told the portal wasn't ready for C Corps yet.

Got an email the next day to try again, and did so and it worked.

Got a promissory note automatically at the end of the application which just
needed a few bits of info and my payroll worksheet from Gusto.

Was informed this morning that the program was out of money and they would let
me know if/when the program had more money to fund the loan.

Oh and through the entire process Chase has stressed that my local banker has
no information, no access to the system, and no way to help me, so not even
bother trying to talk to them.

~~~
treyfitty
Chase has been horrible all around for the past weeks for even basic business
banking. Many links that don’t work, customer service numbers that are
incorrect, policies & procedures stated that are incorrect, and escalation
processes that add further delays to getting time sensitive decisions like
PPP.

I’ve had to spend countless hours for things that took me minutes to do with
AmEx + local credit union.

------
robhunter
I have two companies.

Both have existing checking + lending relationship with BoA.

Company #1 is 5 years old, Company #2 is 6 months old.

4/3: Both companies applied

4/6: Both companies submitted all required docs

4/8: Received a call about Company #2 - claimed we could only use 2019 payroll
to determine size of loan. Incorrect - new co's can use Jan/Feb. Told the rep
this. Was told I would received a callback.

4/9: Received a promissory note for Company #1, signed and submitted.

4/10-4/15: Received numerous automated calls + emails asking me to do things I
already had done.

4/16: Received a request to update business info for Company #1. Did so. Rep
said I should expect deposit of funds in 1-5 days.

Still nothing on Company #2. I am tentative that the $$$ is allocated already
as we have been assigned an SBA loan number.

BoA did some things right (opened up first), some things arguably right (as
someone who has a previous relationship, I appreciate getting prioritized),
and some things terribly (having people take time to give reminders on actions
that have already been taken, having no one available to answer questions or
provide support, etc.)

~~~
jeffmould
We applied through BoA on the first day as well and never heard a word. All
documents are still in Intralinks apparently untouched. Only two things we
ever heard from them were the link to upload documents and a call a few days
later verifying we were able to upload the documents. Radio silence since
then.

I did read somewhere though that their system was looking for specific file
names in Intralinks and if you did not have those your application fell
through the system. After reading that, I went back yesterday and looked at
our docs and one the we had renamed the addendum and template files to remove
spaces. I also looked at their instructions (probably should have read them
more clearly from the beginning) and it does say in there not to rename files
and/or to use specific file names. I am now wondering if that was what caused
our application with them to fall to the black hole.

Luckily we had applied through a local bank and received a SBA number. Waiting
on final docs now from them.

------
HeyLaughingBoy
/r/smallbusiness is now pretty much all SMB owners pissed that after doing
everything right, their banks are saying there's no money left to disburse.

People are sharpening their pitchfork tines...

~~~
mcphilip
I’ve been wondering if something will act as a catalyst for social unrest,
starting on a small scale, and wonder if the PPP could be a tipping point.
There have already been reports of LLCs formed just to get free money for the
wealthy and well-connected:

[https://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/how-stop-
business-l...](https://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/how-stop-business-
loan-program-benefiting-rich-n1185811)

I hope the above article is either wrong or misleading, but I do worry a
tipping point could be hit that gets people out in the streets in numbers far
larger than what was seen in Michigan.

I sense a growing distress at how bleak the situation is in places like here
in Austin where relatively few deaths have been reported but countless people
with livelihoods ruined.

Hopefully I’m wrong, but even having started prepping earlier than most for
this lockdown, I’m still surprised every day how much worse things are getting
than I imagined.

~~~
jedberg
I'm not sure how one could form an LLC and get the loan. One of the
requirements is that your business had to exist before they started writing
the law. I think February 25th was the cutoff but I'm not sure.

~~~
jonathankoren
I imagine that they’re really talking about shell LLCs that people have to do
personal things for various reasons, that have no payroll, and perhaps no
assets, apply for a PPP, because they’re legally a company.

~~~
manigandham
If you don't have payroll then you don't qualify for this program. Even if you
get the loan, it's not forgiven unless it's used for qualified expenses and at
least 75% has to go to payroll costs.

------
e15ctr0n
JPMorgan Chase was able to secure multi-million dollar loans under the PPP for
some of its clients that happen to be large chains and foreign corporations:

* Wave Life Sciences, a biotech company incorporated in Singapore, got $7.2 million for the 97% of the company’s work force based in the United States. [https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1631574/000119312520...](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1631574/000119312520107212/d915389d8k.htm)

* Potbelly Sandwich Shop, a chain of 400 restaurants, got $10 million for its 6,000 employees. [https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1195734/000119312520...](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1195734/000119312520105245/d914203d8k.htm)

* Texas Taco Cabana, a chain of 121 Mexican food restaurants, got $10 million [https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1534992/000153499220...](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1534992/000153499220000027/a8-k041420.htm)

* Ruth’s Hospitality Group, a Florida-based steakhouse operator, got $20 million for its 5,700 employees. [https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1324272/000156459020...](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1324272/000156459020016452/ruth-8k_20200407.htm)

~~~
hkmurakami
Are the latter two franchises?

~~~
kortilla
Not with 5700 employees. I heard on an interview that restaurant chains got an
exemption as long as they had small employee counts at their locations.

~~~
hkmurakami
=\

I could see if they’re a national franchise, but if they’re centrally owned
and operated, then the p&l would roll up to the mothership. This really
doesn’t make much sense and they should have had to Apply to the larger
company bracket... sigh

------
20years
We submitted our app through Chase the morning it opened. Days went by before
we heard anything and that was an automated email that basically said they
received our app. This morning I got an email stating the program is out of
money, but they will keep our app on file for if/when more funds are allocated
to it.

~~~
jrs235
This is why an independent and trustworthy Inspector General overseeing and
reporting back to Congress and the public is needed. Where did this money go
and who got it? Were some people favored or tipped off on how to get through
the process?

~~~
nightcracker
> Where did this money go and who got it?

Call me skeptic but it's likely that banks prioritized applications of
companies that have significant debt with the bank. This way the bank can
essentially pay itself.

Louis Rossman reported that banks were doing this openly (explicitly saying
they only allow applications from existing account holders). They have now
removed that but nothing is preventing them from doing it behind closed doors
anyways.

~~~
Someone1234
Also worth considering that this program, by design, under-cut bank's own
business loan offerings. That's why we see a lot of small "customer focused"
banks offer it, and a lot of the big ones drag their feet long enough for the
program to run out of money.

They don't /want/ companies to get a loan this way, they want companies to get
a bank loan. No doubt they'll be spamming all failed applicants with offerings
of "discount" bank loans soon.

~~~
exclusiv
I don't think this is fully accurate. They wanted CERTAIN companies to get
these loans for sure. They got to make easy commissions and give free money to
companies that owe them money. But yes, they got a ton of free leads AND
incredibly valuable business information which they can use to sell services
later.

------
Anechoic
I run a small engineering consulting firm (traditional engineering, not
CS/programming) based in Massachusetts, with 13 employees spread across 5
states. Most of our work comes from consulting for state and Federal agencies
on large transportation and industrial projects, with lots of small stuff
sprinkled in. We do our banking with a mid-sized east coast regional bank, and
we have an account representative assigned to us.

When we first heard whispers about the program, we reached out to our banker
who responded that they had heard the same whispers but didn't have anything
concrete to tell us. The bank suggested that we start gathering financial
paperwork (as government contractors we tend to need those statements to
respond to audits, so this was easy for us.)

During the first week of April, our bank sent us the preliminary application
form, told us to look it over and make sure we have everything we need. A week
later the program officially opened, but since SBA hadn't offered specific
guidance, the bank wasn't accepting applications yet.

On the morning of April 6, our bank opened the "official" portal to take
applications. We immediately jumped into it, only to find the portal had a
couple of show-stopping bugs and some of the instructions were ambiguous. Our
frazzled representative told us that the bugs were being worked on and to keep
trying. We did, and we were able so successfully submit out application later
that afternoon.

While on a walk on Easter Sunday, we got an unofficial email from our banker
that the application had been approved, which was followed up by a more
official email yesterday. No word yet on when the money will actually hit our
bank account.

I presume that our relationship with our bank helped things go smoothly. While
we weren't 100% sure that we submitted the right documents for everything, the
bank has most of our financial info through other dealings so they may have
been able to check all the right boxes.

~~~
chrischen
> I presume that our relationship with our bank helped things go smoothly.

Hah most banks I saw explicitly told people not to email about PPP loans,
never mind unofficial courtesy status updates!

~~~
GarrisonPrime
Apparently instructions are for the common plebes. :-P

------
dusing
We bank with Wells Fargo, who was of no help until after the PPP ran out.

So we applied with 6 different banks, all small around the country. that
didn't work.

Found and applied to a very small bank in rural MN (where we are) and got a
person on the phone finally. Submitted to SBA after 7 days, and then got a SBA
loan number and approval on 4/14 (just before it ran out).

Now they said I won't be able to close on the loan and get the money until
4/24.

I don't even know what the takeaway is at this point.

~~~
xxpor
I have to ask, why does anyone use wells fargo any more?

~~~
acwan93
Apparently for us we take ACH payments from our customers and disburse payroll
through our WF account we’ve had for over two decades.

When I asked why continue banking with them after the scandal: “we did have
fraudulent accounts opened but nothing was charged, so that wasn’t a big deal”

Hopefully the lack of response from PPP from WF will finally convince my
company to switch banks.

------
wdaher
Yes, what you're describing is incredibly common. What we're hearing is that
small community banks were most successful at actually getting this money into
the hands of businesses, whereas the large banks were fairly slow. (And many
startup-specific banks were just completely unprepared for it.)

My advice is: continue to work with your lender to get your application
squared away so that it's fully ready to be submitted to the SBA as soon as
additional funds are allocated (since I can't imagine that those will last
long either.)

(In the interest of full disclosure, I'm Pilot's CEO. We don't do anything
with PPP loans directly but it's an area of significant interest to our
customer base, so we've been following it closely and have been pretty
regularly releasing updates like this one from yesterday:
[https://pilot.com/blog/the-ppp-has-run-out-of-money-now-
what...](https://pilot.com/blog/the-ppp-has-run-out-of-money-now-what/))

------
slovette
Wells Fargo didn’t open up the application process for us UNITL THE DAY THE
FUND RAN OUT.

We had everything prepared thanks to Gusto and submitted. But it may not
matter because they had us wait to the point of it no longer being available.
We’re laying people off starting Monday. :/

~~~
AndrewBissell
Wells Fargo is just awful. Mechanics is a local community bank so not for
everybody, but we moved our business checking out of Wells Fargo and to them
in 2017 and have never looked back.

~~~
slovette
Yeah, we tried to apply with a local credit union and a local bank right after
the announcement. Both said they'd prioritize their internal customers before
processing ours and we've heard nothing since from either.

While being with a local bank would have helped (especially if we had any debt
with them), their behavior doesn't put me in a big rush to give them business
either.

I've never been naive, but the way America responded to this was with blatant
corruption, and it's truly disheartened me. We've shown who we are in a very
real way, and I say "we" because we're all complicit and responsible for it.

~~~
icelancer
>> but the way America responded to this was with blatant corruption

America is far too incompetent to plan for corruption in times like this. Just
assume stupidity when it comes to bureaucracy. That was definitely the case
here.

~~~
AndrewBissell
Somehow there's always a lot less "incompetence" and "stupidity" when it comes
to getting money out the door for huge companies.

~~~
NateEag
It's the combination of bureaucratic incompetence (the banks) and savvy malice
(the large companies and rich individuals figuring out how to game the system
and pick up some cash cheap).

------
dnprock
Thanks for sharing. Here's my experience.

I went through a similar process with Bank of America. I submitted my
application on Friday when it opened. Then documents. A few days later, I got
a call from a Bank of America representative. He asked if I had any issues.
The rep tried to verify our business information. I spent some time trying to
verify that he's not a scammer. I'm from Washington. He's in Colorado. He told
me he's a mortgage banker. :) He's polite, but he has no idea about my
application status. He just got assigned to reach out. I told him I uploaded
the docs after lots of confusion. But I think I got it. The rep told me that I
can't call him for information on the application. :)

On April 15, I received an email asking for business information. The email
said, login, click "I'm ready" and fill out the required information. I tried
to verify that it's a legit email. I avoid clicking on the link. :) I have no
idea what the required information is. I logged into my business account, but
not prompted "I'm ready" button. I spent 30 minutes looking around for the
button. :) I found that I need to update my account information and promptly
did.

On April 16, I saw the news that PPP is out of money. I'm worried. I log in to
my business account again. This time, I got prompted the "I'm ready" button. I
filled out the required information about our business.

I haven't seen anything after that.

There're a lot of people that I can get mad at, the virus, the rep, the bank,
the state, the government, China. At this point, I don't think those things
matter. Stay safe.

------
kart23
There is so much going wrong right now. The result of a sudden influx of money
obviously will come with issues, but I feel that a lot of the money is going
to big companies with cash in the banks, and not enough to smaller ones.

In a similar vein, my university recently received 38 million dollars through
the cares act, half of which is required to be distributed directly to
students. The administration has not said a word about that money, but has
confirmed we still need to pay fees for services that we cannot use anymore,
like the shuttles or the gym.

I never really thought about corruption in the United States before this.

~~~
jefflombardjr
Bullshit Jobs describes this type of corruption pretty darn well imo. Whenever
there is a big pile of money it entire industries pop up on how to get that
money in the form of fees. It's a similar phenomenon to class action lawsuits
and how if you're a plaintiff you're lucky if you get a $10 check in the mail
two years later.

------
drchopchop
It's a mess, we have 10+ employees and are trying to get ~250K via Chase. We
got in early, but the whole process is opaque, and now they're run out of
money before our application was approved. Can probably survive another 4-6
weeks before layoffs, so hopefully they approve more cash early next week.

~~~
chrischen
The bill seems ill-thought out since as a general stimulus there was not
enough to go around. For the amount they offered they should have targeted
those that needed it or increased it so that it actually has an impact.

Even the EIDL which was meant for affected businesses ran out and there was a
paltry amount in there too.

~~~
s_y_n_t_a_x
Democrats have blocked a quick re-up of the funding.

They're using it as leverage for funding elsewhere and more restrictions on
lenders.

IMO they should allow the funding now and give Republicans an olive branch
like Republicans gave them with the last phase.

It's really not the time for politics and playing the leverage game looks bad.

I don't see why no one is mentioning this. It's wrong when both sides do
things like this.

~~~
dashundchen
Plenty of people are mentioning it, it's all over the news.

There was also plenty given to Republicans, when in the Senate they managed to
include yet another tax giveaway costing $90 billion for 2020 alone. The
benefits will almost entirely be received by millionaires and billionaires.

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/14/coronavir...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/14/coronavirus-
law-congress-tax-change/)

Personally I see it hard for Democrats to want to just up the amount in the
fund without a strategy for distribution. Add in the executive branch
immediately doing everything they can to undermine congressional and Inspector
General oversight over these funds, we will have a repeat of TARP where large
corporations were able to find all the bailouts they needed while SMBs were
hung out to dry.

~~~
s_y_n_t_a_x
I meant mentioning it here.

I don't care about what sides did what when.

I care that this program that was successfully lending money out has been
allowed to dry up and is being used as leverage.

Up the fund once more because it's being distributed too well, then start
working on any restrictions you'll need on the future funding.

~~~
jeromegv
"I don't care about what sides did what when." This is the opposite of
accountability. And when politicians know that you won't keep them accountable
and that they can keep doing whatever shit they want because "you don't care
about which side does what", well, don't be surprised if things don't end up
the way you want them to be.

~~~
s_y_n_t_a_x
Who cares what the Republicans did a week ago, who cares what the Dems did a
week ago.

I care the Dems are blocking the funds to a program that was helping small
businesses.

I'm holding them accountable right now. Do you agree with their stance?

~~~
icebraining
> I'm holding them accountable right now.

Why should they care? They just have to wait a week.

~~~
s_y_n_t_a_x
A week is a lifetime for some businesses.

------
snowwrestler
Keep applying. Don't give up.

If you have an application in process, keep it going. If your bank is still
taking applications, file one.

Most members of Congress agree that the CARES Act small business programs
should get more funding. But they are dragging their feet on a bill because of
other topics and ideas that could get attached to it.

The more un-fulfilled applications there are waiting for funds, the more heat
that banks and trade associations can put on Congress to move fast. It
demonstrates the dire need.

And if more funds are allocated, banks will likely start disbursing them first
to applications that are already in the queue.

You should absolutely be contacting your House representative and Senators
about this. Call their office, tweet @ them, send them emails. Tell them to
pass a bill on Monday to fix this.

[https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-
representati...](https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-
representative)

[https://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_...](https://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm)

------
edsimpson
We applied within 15 minutes of our bank, First Republic, opening up
applications on April 3rd. Just today we got a notification they were unable
to submit it before funds ran out. Horrible experience and terrible customer
service.

~~~
AndrewBissell
Really sorry to hear that, I have a retail checking account with them and
would have thought First Republic would have been one of the most on-the-ball.

~~~
didgeoridoo
We’re FRB customers too. Their excuse was that they weren’t originally set up
to be an SBA lender. They were communicative during the inquiry process, but
obviously had no idea what was going on.

------
sheetjs
Similar story here and with many of our customers. It's been radio silence
with larger banks (Chase) and community banks.

It's rumored that, just like how BofA prioritized companies with active
business loans, other banks are giving money to ensure their loan customers
can continue to pay existing loans.

------
jyfzbj
(Throwaway account, YMMV) We applied on 4/8 and received our PPP on 4/15.

We have almost 40 employees and bank with Chase and Wells but we realized
early on that the big money-center banks were a couple of steps behind are
were going to be overwhelmed.

We started by looking at the full list of PPP banks and identifying the most
tech-savvy of the bunch [https://heavy.com/news/2020/04/apply-payroll-
protection-prog...](https://heavy.com/news/2020/04/apply-payroll-protection-
program-sba-covid-19/)

Eventually after applying with a few we got furthest with by applying via
Kabbage and SmartBizLoans. Our company had an existing relationship w/these
lenders and they seem to be the most tech-conscious of the bunch.

Our application via SmartBizLoans was approved on 4/13 and the funds deposited
on 4/15\. SmartBizLoans acts as a broker to a number of smaller banks which
might explain why they were quicker. AMA, glad to help.

------
hedora
All the horror stories in this thread make me wonder why these banks were
allowed to be (profiting) middlemen in this lending program at all.

------
mauricio
With my wife's business we applied with Bank of America in the morning as soon
as applications opened. They were one of the first banks to offer the loan.
Like OP, the next day they asked us to fill out their template PDF which asked
for the same information we had already provided. We did that ASAP.

Didn't hear anything else after that.

For my company we went through Chase the same day when it was available. They
never asked for any information. We called, they said it was being processed.
Still no info.

I have a few other friends who own businesses and none have received the loan.
The only person I know that received the loan went through a local bank in New
Mexico. I think the big banks just prioritized the really large loans > $1M.

~~~
dboreham
Banks will receive fees based on the loan amount. The fee % does decrease at
higher values but given each loan has to be manually processed by a member of
the bank staff, it would make sense to process a small number of larger loans
in the short time window to maximize fees.

------
vollmarj
Many banks were waiting to process the loans until the guidance settled down.
Even the application form changed after the program officially launched.
Guidance from the Treasury Department on how to apply and underwrite was a
moving target for several days into the program launching.

Our bank said they were still doing diligence on all applications upfront
before submitting the loans to the SBA even though the bank isn't actually
liable for anything. This was causing about a 2 day lag time from starting to
process the loan application to submitting it to the SBA. In our case that
meant not getting the loan submitted before the funding ran out.

------
throw_m239339
Not in US, but one of my friend who owns a US small business did attempt to
apply in order to save his company, no dice.

Let's just say this thing is one of the biggest scandal in the history of
modern USA. Clearly some banks did favour some "small businesses" over others
by restricting application dates.

~~~
pinkfoot
A bigger scandal is why in almost all countries the financial industry
uniquely requires one to go through private companies to access government
resources.

Its as weird as if their were no government run schools.

------
tracker1
Louis Rossmann covered this recently:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP4rodsK41E&t=648s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP4rodsK41E&t=648s)

~~~
amerine
Who is this and why should we care?

~~~
tracker1
Your comment could literally apply to any content, created by anyone.

The person in question has a relatively large YouTube following, his small
business provides services for computing, phone and laptop devices including
general recovery and board repair.

He's also acted as an independent advocate for right to repair legislation at
his own expense.

He was specifically affected by the PPP process and the fact that the larger
banks prioritized their larger leveraged customers rather than the small
businesses the legislation was really meant to help.

------
ianmcgowan
I'm a sole prop, and followed almost exactly this timeline, along with
resubmitting the same information. Bank of America for me, but they're using
an external service to manage the process
[https://services.intralinks.com/](https://services.intralinks.com/), it seems
strange it can't be managed thru their own online banking.

Haven't heard anything, not expecting anything, it's pretty discouraging...

~~~
dumbfoundded
I use Bank of America too and so far crickets.

------
lquist
Chase Bank client. Received a text from our relationshiop manager 1:20pm PST
to apply on Portal. Submitted prelim application 10 mins later. Received loan
approval Midnight of April 15. Funds in the bank account April 17.

------
imroot
I helped my mom do her PPP paperwork.

She submitted on the first day that US Bank allowed applications. She then
spent the next 4 days going back and Forth with US Bank over her paperwork.
She had a loan approval from US Bank, and then...nothing.

...until Wednesday, when she got an email saying that the funding had ran out.

My mom plans on keeping her staff employed while they work from home for as
long as she can, but, she had enough money to run payroll on the 15th, and
will probably not have enough money to run payroll at the end of the month --
hospitals have stopped having elective surgeries, and many of them are 60+
days behind on their bills right now.

I know that the banks were hammered with applications and there are a lot of
people who are in the same situation as her. I'm hoping that when they add
funding to the program, that businesses like hers (who were approved
provisionally, but ran out of money) would be processed first.

------
sauwan
So is the answer:

Applied with a big bank, get nothing.

Applied with a small bank, got lucky if you applied early on April 3rd

?

Edit: we applied with a small bank at 6am on the 3rd and got funds earlier
this week.

------
whatok
Some stats on the program so far:

[https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/PPP%20Deck%2...](https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/PPP%20Deck%20copy.pdf)

------
mgkimsal
My bank called me and asked if I knew about the PPP and wanted to apply. My
bank never calls me for anything. I was actually skeptical it was my bank at
all, but some verification afterwards checked out that it was legit (but was
still weird). I said "No, I'm doing OK". He said "that's good - have a nice
day". No idea why they were doing PPP outreach - I'd have figured it would all
be earmarked or gone in a couple of days anyway - there's no need to try to
'drum up' business.

~~~
danieltillett
Do you have a large loan with your bank?

~~~
mgkimsal
nope. small biz checking, that's it.

------
apinstein
I figured corporate red tape would be the hardest problem and that the program
would be over-subscribed. So I "signed up" at Chase and 2 local banks
recommended by my accountant and let the best one win...

Sure enough, the local bank (Quantum National Bank) in GA, got back to me with
an application to fill out before Chase even had a "form" to register interest
in the program. They had a plan, and their banker was responsive via phone and
email. It was pleasantly not a bad process at all.

We signed our closing papers today.

------
cpr
Submitted to PNC (here near Pittsburgh) the day it opened, got bounced a few
days later with slightly incomplete form filling.

I stupidly dragged my feet in re-submitting, given all the steps required.
Finally got it re-submitted yesterday, just as they announced the well's run
dry.

PNC kindly got back to me today (via phone) and had me add one more piece of
missing info, in readiness for the next wave of funding (if that happens).

Now I wonder if I had responded immediately last week if it might have made it
under the wire. I guess who knows?

------
rman666
I submitted our application on April 6. I got a confirmation number from my
bank on the same day. My bank put up a status system on April 10. I check it
every 4-8 hours. It's always "In Review". They did ask me for more details on
our payroll, but it didn't apply. I sent an email with that update. Nothing
since. My bank is PNC. Very unimpressed with their efforts/communication on
this. But, it sounds like most large banks have not been very good about it.

------
orf
Why on earth did anyone think that it would be good, or efficient, to go
through a multitude of private companies in order to access public resources?

And why on earth do you still use cheques?

------
dboreham
The day before applications were to open, I called the guy at a local
community bank (we bank with Wells Fargo which at the time just had a web page
saying "don't even think about it"). This guy was very helpful which was handy
because at the time the official communications were vague and internally
inconsistent. Anyway I came away with the distinct impression that it had
already been decided who was to receive these loans.

------
reddit121853
When they said first come first serve on Thursday 4/2 with the opening on
Friday 4/3, we spent most of the day getting our paperwork done for the
submission on that Thursday. Including copies of a whole year of payroll and
all the other backup material. We had our paperwork in to Texas Bank and Trust
that Friday morning. They worked on the SBA side and sent an email to us on
Saturday that the SBA had changed the terms from .5% to 1% interest rate with
some other changes about contractors and such and updated the signoff sheet.
On early Monday we signed the loan agreement with those changes and by 4:30
p.m. they said we had been approved by the SBA. Then on Thursday 4/9 the money
showed up in our bank account. I want to publicly acknowledge the outstanding
work the Texas Bank and Trust team performed to get our relief money. For 2
weeks we sent everyone home fully paid. We are slowly ramping up but everyone
is being paid their full salaries / 40 hours for the whole time they are at
home self quarantining. This is how the program was supposed to work.

------
tardo99
I've been told by some well-placed people (pooh pooh me if you want, I don't
care), that a number of PE shops and hedge funds were able to get some pretty
big loans to the top of the pile. Many, many, many businesses are in your
situation. A very large percentage of the money went places you and I probably
wouldn't think it "should" go. The program isn't working.

~~~
FireBeyond
I know of two egregious examples:

1) a private university near me with multiple thousand students, and nearly
1,000 employees (faculty and the like) "tweaking" their payroll numbers to
exclude adjuncts, TAs, student employees and such, so they could claim they
were a "small business"

2) a startup who closed a $25M round of funding in March, has no
product/revenue as yet, and works 100% remote, talks of having a 14 month
runway, got a fairly large check "because they're offering money, we should
take it" (regardless of need)

~~~
searchableguy
Aren't both of those illegal or breaking the agreement? Wouldn't it be better
to report them?

------
nono88
Here in the western USA, I recall distinctly that washington mutual (before
death) changed the order of check clearing in my account, to create an
overdraft and charge fees on multiple checks .. just before Christmas 2007
iir.. other info in YNews about the PPP suggests that companies with current
financing open (product-less dot-com) got money, while others (on main street)
wait in queues ..

~~~
FireBeyond
Absolutely. I deposited a check at an ATM in the evening. The next morning, I
made the usual transactions, Starbucks, grocery store, fuel, a few others
during the day. Despite everything looking fine in online banking I got
slapped with $315 in overdraft fees for "9 overdraft transactions" that next
day. F WaMu.

------
latortuga
11 employees, monthly payroll under 100k we applied the moment the program was
opened by our bank (April 3rd). We knew the funds would go fast so we put our
all into getting our application info in as soon as possible. I suppose it
must have helped because we closed this week - got final paperwork on the 15th
and funds yesterday (the 16th).

------
e15ctr0n
SBA has issued a report on PPP loan approvals through 4/16:
[https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/PPP%20Deck%2...](https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/PPP%20Deck%20copy.pdf)

The highlights of the report:

* 1.6 million loans worth $342 billion approved through 4,975 lenders

* California, Texas and New York accounted for 23% of the loans, more than $82 billion. (see Reuters graphic: [https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/editorcharts/qmypmrzyv...](https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/editorcharts/qmypmrzyvra/index.html))

* Number of loans approved per 1,000 small businesses was the highest for rural states (see Reuters graphic: [https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/editorcharts/xlbpgxaov...](https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/editorcharts/xlbpgxaovqd/index.html))

* A breakdown of loans per industry shows that construction and manufacturing firms were awarded loan amounts disproportionately higher than the share of employees in that sector. (See Reuters graphic: [https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/editorcharts/qzjvqlbop...](https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/editorcharts/qzjvqlbopxm/index.html))

* The top lender processed $14 billion in loans across 27,307 businesses, with $515,304 average loan amount.

* The lender with the most number of loans processed $2.9 billion to 40,746 businesses with $72,803 average loan amount.

More analysis here: [https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-
usa-le...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-lending-
analys/main-street-bailout-rewards-us-restaurant-chains-firms-in-rural-states-
idUSKBN21Z3FL)

------
balls187
1099\. Applications weren't open until April 10th for us.

My local credit union is not SBA. I applied through a few online brokers; got
word a few days ago my application was approved and sent to the underwriter.
Later that day it was announced all the funding was dry.

------
mNovak
We submitted through PNC. Their online portal didn't work the first few days,
so we finally got it in Apr 8.

Never any updates, not even a confirmation email.

Checking the status today, looks like they never got through processing and
submitting to SBA. So looks like we missed the boat.

------
matt1988
We also bank with Mechanics. Submitted our application on Sunday the 5th.
Called many times and they kept saying they can't give us status. Was patient
most of the time with them but I wish we were not. The story is too long but I
can tell you that they were not processing applications first come first
serve. Finally got someone to look at our application and now its in
underwriting. Hoping congress passes phase 2. We will be moving from
Mechanics. 45+ people on payroll didn't let anyone go in anticipation of us
getting the funds. Did everything I could to give them all the information
they needed within minutes of them asking. I was always fist in line.

------
chrischen
I applied on 9th and had no significant update except about funds running out.
The only people that I know who got it applied on the 5th or 6th (in all
practical terms the actual launch day was the 5th).

It’s very likely that the allocated funds actually ran out within 1-2 days of
applications.

The allocated funds were so paltry that whether you got it or not was based on
luck. If you happened to pick a good bank with a short queue or good
processing, or if your own bank prioritized you, then you were in luck. In my
case our application didn’t even get reviewed the whole time, and the applying
only one time rule blocked us from seeking some better bank.

------
chrisseaton
> My wife and I run a small winery

Where can I buy a case?

~~~
AndrewBissell
Where do you live? :-) We unfortunately had spun down our DTC sales not long
before this damn thing hit, but if you're in one of our markets (Bay Area, LA,
Seattle, Portland, Montreal, Chicago, NYC, ME, MA, or NC) then you can
probably find our stuff in the right local shop. Inconnu, Lalalu, Kitsune, and
Papa JaJa are our brands.

We're looking into ways to get DTC back up and running now though, looks like
lots of beverage sales have switched to that channel.

~~~
chrisseaton
Ah sorry I'm over in the UK and I can't see an importer.

Now's a great time for DTC though. I've been buying wine to be delivered and I
don't usually do that, and actually it's encouraging me to be more adventurous
in my choice, so there's an opportunity here.

~~~
AndrewBissell
I forgot, we're actually in the UK too! 266 Wines imports our stuff but I
don't know if they sell to any wine shops or just restaurants. We'll probably
never be able to do DTC to the UK though :-(

~~~
chrisseaton
Thanks yes they're selling direct to consumer now due to the emergency.

------
squeaky-clean
Just an employee, not an owner so I don't know the actual details of it, all I
know is that my company successfully got it (or is confirmed to get it?). Next
week accounting will be laying out the details of it for all the other
employees. I don't really know anything more than we received confirmation on
Wednesday and the people in accounting say it's good news for us.

We're a software firm that does contract work for airlines, so that may have
also helped out?

------
sakoht
The SBA has set the interest rate on the loans to a very low level. Low
interest on a house isn't bad b/c it can go 15-30 years and has closing costs.
A low interest rate short term loan probably doesn't cover the legwork for the
banks to manage it. So they really don't want to. And even though the govt is
securing them, it is even more paperwork when a bunch of companies default and
need to be processed.

------
hv23
Not the answer to OP's question so apologies—but does anyone have insight on
how PPP funds were actually distributed to banks across the nation? i.e. were
banks given specific allotments of the total capital pool that they could
distribute to their clients... or was there a general SBA FIFO queue that each
bank simply had to submit their clients' applications to once they processed
them internally?

------
henrikschroder
Sole proprietor here, crickets from my bank as well except some initial emails
redirecting me to their PPP website signup.

The general sentiment in this thread seems to be that large banks absolutely
suck for a bunch of reasons.

What would happen if I apply for the same loan through some other smaller
local bank or credit union? As long as I only accept the loan through one
place, it should be fine, right?

------
dhruvkar
We deal with a smaller, local bank (just has one branch) and submitted the
application through them exactly one week ago.

We were able to get the loan amount in our account earlier this week.

We're ~30 employees (~$7M annual revenue) located in the Midwest. I wasn't
directly involved with the application, however.

Sorry to hear of the troubles you're going through, these are not easy times.

------
BryanBigs
I went with USBank. Small loan, under 50k. I'm a C Corp, one employee. They
had issues (system wasn't up the first day was what I was told) but was
approved on Wednesday, received money Thursday.

I'm amazed it went as well as it did. Government bureaucracy isn't designed to
try new things or deal with bumps in the road as they appear.

------
judge2020
> Now I'm reading reports that the program is already out of money

Correct, I received an email from Intuit today stating that the loan volume
has been hit:
[https://i.judge.sh/ashamed/Derpy/chrome_YyblB6Znpm.png](https://i.judge.sh/ashamed/Derpy/chrome_YyblB6Znpm.png)

------
rstupek
Applied through WellsFargo and haven't heard anything yet. Did get what might
have been spam from a financial company using Kabbage to handle the paperwork.
Considered trying that route as well but had read "only one application
allowed". That plus the possibility it was a scam kept me from doing that.

------
duxup
Company I work for the president of the company said he applied the first day
and since have been approved.

------
manigandham
Some notes:

1) If the SBA received your application then you should see a inquiry on your
credit report. CreditKarma is a good free choice to check your report.

2) Chase and other big banks added additional language to their loan contracts
that allows them to sue for defaults. Read the terms carefully before signing.

------
JamalW
Moral of the story: Rely less on government assistance and vote for less taxes
and regulations.

------
zarkov99
Wells Fargo. Did not accept applications until a week in. Ran out of money
after 10 Billion since they were still under an asset cap because of their
past frauds. To this day I have no idea if I will be approved or not. 0/10
would not recommend.

------
edoceo
Wells Fargo. I was early in their application process (just a simple 5q web
form) like 10+ days ago. 3 days ago I submitted full application. All I've
gotten are daily emails that report they are still processing the queue.

------
griffinkelly
I applied the day application opened as well as for the EIDL. No luck with
either.

------
ridgeguy
My personal bank, First Republic, accepted my application even though I run my
business as self-employed and they normally require a "real" business account.
Got the app in on April 8, crickets since.

~~~
killbigbanks
How long have you been doing business with first Republic Bank?

~~~
ridgeguy
about 15 years, just the one account. And I'm sure my account isn't much more
than a roundoff error compared with most of their business.

------
gamblor956
Unfortunately, if your loan was not already approved by your bank it's too
late to receive a CARES loan as the (initial?) money ran out Wednesday,
barring an expansion of the program.

~~~
AndrewBissell
Wednesday was April 15 and we submitted our application on April 6. I'm
especially curious whether others who submitted an application as early as we
did got a similar runaround from their bank.

~~~
gamblor956
Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like your bank submitted your PPP loan
application in time as SBA approval generally only takes a day.

------
humaniania
Has the SBA disclosed the extent of the data breach that they had?

~~~
edoceo
Link?

~~~
humaniania
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/business-owners-say-their-
perso...](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/business-owners-say-their-personal-
data-is-being-leaked-on-federal-loan-site/)

------
aazaa
On face value, this seems like a no-lose proposition. Loan forgiveness, minus
1% interest, so basically free money.

What are the _downsides_ , theoretical or otherwise, of taking this money?

~~~
AndrewBissell
To apply you have to make certain representations that you need the money as a
result of COVID-related disruptions and will use it only for certain purposes,
and one is at least theoretically criminally liable for filing a false
statement if that's not the case. Also, you only get the loan balance forgiven
if it goes to payroll (must be at least 75% of the total), rents, and
utilities.

------
DenisM
We applied the opening day with The BoA, got nothing.

It’s all very frustrating.

------
jahn716
Submitted EIDL for last week. Not sure what our chances are but have not
received _any_ update as of yet.

~~~
ed
I'm sure you're aware of PPP, but it's the more advantageous program (by far).
EIDL grants were reduced to $1k/employee, instead of the flat $10k/company.
EIDL interest rates are higher, the grants are smaller, and if you eventually
enroll in PPP, you'll have to reconsolidate your EIDL debt with the new bank.

Better to ignore the status of your EIDL application and apply for PPP, in the
hope the program gets additional funding. (Both EIDL and PPP are out of funds,
at the moment.)

~~~
jahn716
Yea, ended up putting in a submission for PPP at the end of last week.

Thanks for the heads up though! Didn't see it till just now...

------
chrisco255
Have you tried calling the Federal Reserve directly? Oh wait, that only works
for Hedge Fund managers.

------
nhorob67
Process was very smooth with our local bank in North Dakota. Was funded
yesterday.

------
itake
I just got an email from Chase saying they are out of monies. :[

------
rasz
No pre-existing substantial obligations to the bank? no loan.

------
tempsy
It’s out of money as of today

------
abalashov
It's not.

------
henrikberggren
Approved!

------
ungzd
At first I thought it's about loans for dialup internet which uses PPP.

