
Welcome to the United States: Discriminated, detained, searched, interrogated - Libertatea
http://www.zdnet.com/discriminated-detained-searched-interrogated-at-the-united-states-border-7000020045/
======
powertower
I'm being detained because -

A) I'm not the right skin color.

B) DHS and U.S. Customs and Border Protection are evil.

-or-

C) I work for a group that has been classified as an eco-terrorist
organization. And due to past terrorist events my org was involved in, they
want to find out what I'm doing here.

Doesn't C) explain this so much better than A) and B)?

But then there wouldn't be a story here to report on.

~~~
nraynaud
C) after having been actively attacked by some State special forces
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior)

edit: I keep thinking about that, and I don't know how you don't become crazy
when you discover that the four or fifth biggest economy (at the time)
actively attacked you. A "sane" level of paranoia doesn't exists anymore, you
are actually framed by the secret services, you are in the novel, in the
movie. They have allies all over the world, the rest is USSR friends you don't
trust either or non-aligned third world countries.

~~~
jordanthoms
Exactly - I don't generally support Greenpeace, but there is no doubt they
were a victim of state-sponsored terrorism - the state being France. Actually,
it's the only terrorist attack we've ever had in New Zealand, and it resulted
in a civilian's death.

France threatened to embargo NZ goods within the EU unless we handed back
their terrorists. At which point they were released and promoted.

~~~
nraynaud
And now some of them work in the US.

------
mixmax
If it doesn't already exist someone should make an Iphone and/or android app
that will let you lock your phone before you go through customs, and only
allow you to unlock it at a specified time and/or place. For instance 5 hours
after landing at the location of your booked hotel.

That way you won't be able to divulge information held on your phone, even if
you wanted to.

~~~
Spearchucker
Overkill. Cross borders clean. I reset my phone every time I cross any border.
And then resync everything I need on the other side. I have a TrueCrypt volume
I download to my travel laptop. It's small but contains what I need when
abroad.

~~~
tghw
Sorry, but I fail to see how an app locking you out is more overkill than
wiping all of your devices every time you cross a border.

~~~
Spearchucker
Depends on what you mean by overkill. Effort? Then yes. Security? Then no. If
the data is there but inaccessible you can be detained until it is. If the
data isn't there to begin with, there's no reason to detain you.

~~~
tghw
I'd call that more of an effectiveness thing than overkill. And it would be
possible for an app to not unlock the phone until it enters a certain
geofence, like the hotel.

~~~
Spearchucker
That wouldn't work in the UK, where not providing plain text when asked
carries a prison sentence.

~~~
tghw
The app wouldn't accept a password, just a time and location to unlock. I'm
not sure if that's better, but it technically sidesteps that issue.

~~~
Spearchucker
I said plain text, not password. And it doesn't side-step anything because
when you're in front of a judge and explain why you cannot provide plain text,
they'll take your phone from you, get it to the location you tell them, and if
none of that yields plain text, you go to jail. Two years, they give you for
that.

~~~
jrockway
Who has gotten two years for that and lost the appeals?

~~~
Spearchucker
[http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/06/jail_password_ripa/](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/06/jail_password_ripa/)

------
D9u
I fail to see how everyone is now considered to be a potential terrorist
simply because some (mostly) Saudi nationals hijacked a few planes 11 years
ago.

It is an affront to our dignity, especially in light of the fact that "General
Aviation" (Private jets) terminals are not held to the same level of scrutiny.

[http://www.tsa.gov/stakeholders/security-
directives](http://www.tsa.gov/stakeholders/security-directives)

[http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-
issue...](http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-
issues/1205769-bypassing-tsa-way-general-aviation.html)

~~~
betterunix
I had the privilege of flying on a private plane this summer. "Not held to the
same level of scrutiny" is a major understatement. There were no checks
whatsoever, only a gate with a keypad standing between us and the airplane. We
could travel with whatever we wanted on the plane. Yes, we had as many duffle
bags as there were people, and no, nobody was even around to ask what was
inside those bags.

It is a clear illustration of the utter pointlessness of the TSA checkpoints.
The kind of terrorists who attacked us in 2001 could have used a private plane
packed with C4 just as easily as a commercial jet.

~~~
ubernostrum
Federal agents have lately been doing more searches of general-aviation
aircraft. Typically on landing, when the filed flight plan had the plane
coming from a state where marijuana has been decriminalized.

~~~
coopdog
Doing the checks on landing doesn't address security though (rather than just
drugs), so the airport checks are definitely pointless from that point of
view. It's to show the public that politicians are 'tough on crime', even if
they're not entirely committed to actually improving anything

------
tokenadult
"It is an international legal phenomenon that is left much to the discretion
of host countries."

Yes it is. Every country has this power, and every country uses this power as
it wishes. There are plenty of countries that I have no hope whatever of
visiting.

------
frank_boyd
> In the 2011 DHS document, the CBP says it can conduct a "brief physical
> inspection," such as switching a device on, to demonstrate that it is not a
> container for illegal substances, but it has the right to "search [...] the
> device's contents." A device can also be detained, which can result in a
> copy of the data contained on the device being stored for latest forensic
> searches. And a copy of the data can be used for "evidence of continued or
> future admissibility." Device detentions can are often returned within seven
> days, but can be extended up to 14 days, the document says.

This means: If you don't want to give random people your data, you can simply
not travel with any devices such as a phone, laptop, tablet, USB stick, SD
card.

I'm speechless.

~~~
D9u
<sarcasm> Velcome to ze new millenia, ve are ze government, ve are here to
help, trust us! </sarcasm>

------
_ak
Well, that's US-American imperialism for you: declare de-facto jurisdiction
over everything, afford rights to nobody. Be that at the US border or at US-
run detention facilities outside the US like Guantanamo.

~~~
blackcat
We are about to launch another war from our military bases in Germany. The
fatherland's moral outrage is laughable.

~~~
quantumpotato_
Explain?

~~~
blackcat
Germany is enabling the US to continue with these ridiculous escapades by not
closing US bases for some minuscule economic gain. If you believe these wars,
Iraq, Afghanistan and soon Syria are terrible but want to keep the bases you
are a hypocrite and either way as culpable for civilian deaths as any
American. Many in Germany are upset about these wars, virtually none want to
close the bases. Serious willful disconnect there.

~~~
primitur
The only way for Germany to close the US bases is for Germany to declare war
on the US. Seriously! US bases in Germany are US territory ..

~~~
betterunix
Germany does not have to allow US airplanes or vehicles to travel through
their country to and from those bases...

~~~
btilly
That strategy didn't work well for East Germany as a way of shutting down the
US presence in Berlin.

~~~
_ak
Actually, the US, the UK and France had contracts with the Soviets that
guaranteed them access to Berlin by air. They didn't have correspnding
contracts for access via streets and railways, though, that's why the Soviets
could block food trucks but not the airlift.

The contracts only allowed very specific air corridors (3, to be precise),
which is one of the points why the airlift was so hard to implement at full
capacity.

The Allied forces had quite extensive rights in all the other sectors, and not
just in Berlin. For example, military vehicles were considered
extraterritorial, and had to be let in. And that's what the US and the UK did:
they drove into East Germany and rather openly spied on Soviet troop movements
and maneuvers.

------
D9u
All that's missing from US borders now are the pneumatic flechette firing
motion detectors...

Think nail guns with motion detectors...

Your travel papers please, Komrade!

------
josefit
Why worry about borders when even ex-STASI members have declared they would
have loved to had (at their times) the suirvellance tools USA has right now.

Are you serious about your privacy? Never use social networks, crypt
everything and never fly to or through USA.

Oh, and by the way now I can welcome myself in the one percenters. :)

------
cmod
Has anyone created a simple, anonymous app (webapp?) to rate your experience
going through customs / tsa security? It would: geolocate, allow you to choose
airport, entry or exit, and then rate a few parameters of the experience with
optional comment.

Would love to see data like this in aggregate.

------
enscr
That's a massive number of travelers crossing the border and a small
percentage of those have a bad intent. We often jump at the first opportunity
to criticize about our "first world" rights but do we have a better solution
to keep the country safe? I bet many of you don't like the cops ticketing you
for over-speeding either. But it keeps the roads safe... for the remaining &
from the remaining 98%.

~~~
dominotw
I've never done anything illegal ( not even a speeding ticket). All my
documents are clean and valid. Yet, I've been called a 'dog' that needs to be
'kicked out' by an 'immigration officer'. I am not sure how that keeps America
safe.

~~~
enscr
Just because of a few bad apples (immigration officer), you think we should
remove all airport screening?

Your grief is reasonable but what recourse do you suggest?

------
pinaceae
article starts with a general overview, then explains the numbers (a really
small sub section of travellers get into trouble at the border, most for very
good reasons like warrants).

and then the article takes a u-turn and focuses on a special case. someone
associated to an eco terrorist association. what the fuck.

ever seen what happens in frankfurt if one of the border agents suspects you
of smuggling? off you go. they trawl the airport, pick you out of the crowd.
they even show this in some reality tv shows, hope you like being on camera.

how about you travel a bit more? any major country has border control, they
all are very, very similar.

and what the hell are the mini james bonds in here doing that needs them to
truecrypt their shit and wipe their phones? you have HN, github, whatever
accounts, you code in public but you need to hide your files? the fuck are you
storing on your hds that is not public knowledge? travelling with your porn
collection?

~~~
betterunix
"the fuck are you storing on your hds that is not public knowledge?"

Personal emails to my fiance? Personal photographs that I am not posting all
over the Internet? Business secrets, maybe things that I had to sign an NDA
for? How about this: if you have nothing to hide on your hard drive, send me a
disk dump and let me look through. If you do not want me looking through it,
why should I feel OK with the CBP looking through mine?

"travelling with your porn collection?"

Suppose someone only has one laptop (shocking!). Would it be that crazy to
think that they might be traveling with their porn collection?

~~~
pinaceae
i went through 2 passports in the last 6 years, ran out of space.

travelling with company laptops and now additional iPads. never, ever, did
anyone want to search my HD. and this is Russia, China, Japan, SKorea, US,
Brazil, Argentinia, plus 80% of Europe. none, ever.

and even if. good luck with some powerpoints, pdfs, word docs. emails are in
gmail, work is JIRA/confluence/google docs, etc. NDAs talk about preventing
willful sharing with competitors, etc. Reasonable prevention measures, like
locking your computer. Border Patrol requesting access? go ahead. unless
you're a nuclear physicist working on the next gen thing, what the hell is so
important to hide from a border agent that right now wants to search YOU, not
your precious employer.

and porn - the internet is for porn.

~~~
betterunix
You asked what sort of things I might have on my hard drive that I do not want
strangers to view. I gave you answers. Your solution is to store all those
things on Google's servers, and then still let CBP look through them if they
ask. You go ahead and do that, I will be over here using dm-crypt and PGP to
keep my private things private.

