
The Brave New World of Chemical Romance - CapitalistCartr
http://m.nautil.us/issue/88/love--sex/the-brave-new-world-of-chemical-romance
======
rootsudo
To be fair, this is nothing new - if you've hopped onto a few boards/forums
that discussed this, or read any of Shulgins's books -
[https://www.amazon.com/Pihkal-Chemical-Story-Alexander-
Shulg...](https://www.amazon.com/Pihkal-Chemical-Story-Alexander-
Shulgin/dp/0963009605) this has been a constant conversation that was semi-,
not really, but kinda underground to people who persisted and wanted to
explore this world.

Erowid is a great history and collection of user reports, and from there you
can look for other forums that share the same idea, concept of storytelling,
experience telling, and even how to cultivate and probably synthesis things
but the later part is what makes it more questionable to many people. :)

\--

MDMA is on the roadmap for regulation and being "legal"

[https://usir.salford.ac.uk/id/eprint/56027/1/MDMA_Roadmap_To...](https://usir.salford.ac.uk/id/eprint/56027/1/MDMA_Roadmap_To_Regulation-
Digital-Copy-0512.pdf)

[https://beckleyfoundation.org/wp-
content/uploads/2019/12/MDM...](https://beckleyfoundation.org/wp-
content/uploads/2019/12/MDMA_Roadmap_To_Regulation-Digital-Copy-0512.pdf)

\--

The article though is quite dystopian for sure, talking about all the
artificial side of drugs, meanwhile ignoring the big picture of "Life is
already artificial."

Finding ways to improve your empathy and your ability to love is not bad,
never.

But then you have things like "One possibility is that people will begin to
see that love is something that is at least partly in our command. "

Love is always in your command, always. I just can't agree with that affection
and love aren't.

\--

And then the whole idea of relationships having to involve love is also new
itself, most of the time relationships, marriage in history came out of need,
not for "love."

So who defines what love is?

~~~
kristerv
This is what I come to HN for. Radically different viewpoint, well argumented,
true to logic and heart.

------
dreen
It's true that drugs like MDMA or Mephedrone can cause an outpuring of
feelings very much similar to what you feel when really loving someone (in my
time in university, Mephedrone used to be called "The Big Love" by partaking
students, it was legal then). However, a sober examination of those feelings
after some time may reveal to you an underlying "fakeness", in the sense that
what you were showing was not really a true image, but rather a caricature of
your feelings. It does not mean that you do not genuinely like the person you
declared "your true soulmate" while under the influence, but these words
really mean nothing unless spoken sober.

As sooon as you start messing with your brain chemistry, everything you say is
being stripped of meaning as it becomes more driven by emotions and less by
reason. At some point it's like trying to interpret dreams - there might be
some emotional content there, but its not applicable in the real world more
than just a cause for reflection (which is good) to find some true insights.

~~~
bluntfang
Anecdata: I had a roommate/good friend with a substance abuse problem,
specifically escapism via MDMA and alcohol and sometimes LSD. MDMA use at
least once a week, sometimes up to 2-3 times a week, depending on how long
their party lasted. Blackout level alcohol use ~5 times a week. LSD use
biweekly or monthly. They knew their lifestyle was hurting our relationship
and could only come to terms with that while rolling, but when sober was
unable to come to terms with their problems. It was impossible to take their
gushing of emotions and how much they loved and how much they missed their
relationship with me and asking if what they were doing was OK with me etc
while under the influence. It felt fake, because their sober experience didn't
reflect their gushing of emotions. I'm sure the extreme use had something to
do with this, but I really have a hard time finding MDMA valuable, for fear
that I'll get vulnerable say something that I can't back up in my sober
living.

It's so hurtful to hear strong emotions that don't last.

~~~
cleansingfire
I agree. I think this is one of the hardest problems of dealing with addicts.
I had a friend who would drink and go on crying jags. I took it as cathartic,
& was loving & supportive, but after the same emotions & expressions came out
many times with no sense of progress or change I realized there was no growth
coming from it. I wasn't being supportive, but enabling. The crying stopped
when I stopped participating.

------
User23
Commonly used hormonal birth control does this already[1]. I assume if we
routinely dosed men with sex hormones we’d see a change in male partner
preferences as well. I’ve heard the claim that xenoestrogens already have, but
I’m not sure if there is quality research on that.

[1]
[https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091007124358.h...](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091007124358.htm)

------
happy_tentacles
Brings to mind a dark dystopian corner where this could take us - as imagined
by Stanislaw Lem in his 1971 "The Futurological Congress"
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Futurological_Congress](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Futurological_Congress)

It is a short and highly recommended read.

~~~
a_imho
I also recommend The Congress (2013) movie which is based on the novel.

------
ackbar03
Jesus christ this is so dystopian. I've always thought of love and fear as the
main things that make humans human

~~~
082349872349872
Many animals have a hypothalamus. Love[1] is more complicated but in my
experience well within the behavioural range of many mammals, and potentially
some birds. If we count maternal love, we'd get just about all K-strategists.

[1]
[https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0908/7624/products/Webp.ne...](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0908/7624/products/Webp.net-
resizeimage-2020-05-21T125913.087_grande.jpg?v=1590029983)

~~~
jusujusu
Love, dear, is strictly for the birds

