
Others may be unconsciously judging your features in ways you don't realise - AdamFernandez
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150707-is-faceism-spoiling-your-life
======
blfr
Being swayed by superficial cues is not irrational if they correlate to the
underlying qualities you are trying to judge. And, of course, prior
information should change the way you view new information. I don't see how it
can do more harm than good if you can do better than chance. Neither would I
be so confident that I can do better than millions of years of evolution,
especially by reading resumes.

We can guess what particular traits make people seem less trustworthy. For
example, supposedly men with wider faces are more likely to act immorally
(deceive, cheat).
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21733897](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21733897)

~~~
slipjack
> Being swayed by superficial cues is not irrational if they correlate to the
> underlying qualities you are trying to judge.

I'd be pretty careful about this line of argument. What we think of as a clue
to underlying qualities is cultural... for example, one of the biggest
superficial differences in people is the color of their skin. What underlying
qualities does skin color clue us in to?

In the US and Europe, we have a long history of trying to find the ties
between visible and non-visible qualities. Phrenology, eugenics, Blacks as
having "inferior intelligence", the belief that women are prone to hysteria -
all were attempts to find that link.

~~~
StavrosK
> What underlying qualities does skin color clue us in to

What underlying qualities does height clue us in to? Are you sure that, even
though traits regularly correlate with other traits, skin color is the one
trait that has no correlation with absolutely anything else? I don't find that
very likely, personally.

~~~
pixl97
>What underlying qualities does height clue us in to?

Possibly more than you think.

[http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1820836,0...](http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1820836,00.html)

~~~
StavrosK
That's my point.

------
zachb
The author completely glosses over a crucial fact: an individual's face is
representative of the lifestyle that he or she lives. Fat; thin; tan; pale;
bearded; bald. Is your hair buzzed military grade, or does it spill over your
shoulders? Do you take care of your skin? Do you wax your eyebrows?

Our faces certainly tell some sort of story, but there's more to it than bone
structure and brow size.

~~~
m_fayer
Absolutely. I'd also add that your face is a reflection of your personality
and average emotional temperature.

Your "neutral expression" will, over many years of muscle memory and habit,
settle into some particular arrangement. People who tend toward bitterness,
mistrust, anger, or anxiety - will look it, and inspire vague anxiety in
anyone who deals with them. If, on the other hand, your neutral expression
broadcasts poise, optimism, peace, wit, or good humor - the subtle good will
that this generates will eventually add up to a significantly better
experience of humanity. In this way, the way we look can be self-reinforcing.

In a way, we all get the face we deserve.

~~~
drzaiusapelord
> People who tend toward bitterness, mistrust, anger, or anxiety - will look
> it

This is total pseudo-science, like a modern phrenology. Your resting face and
how that's interpreted is meaningless. For example, in some cultures no one
smiles in photos and smiling at others on the street or in the workplace is a
very weird thing to do, but here in the US its extremely common. If an
American went to one of those cultures, he'd think everyone was an angry
murderer.

Not to mention, many cheery and upbeat men and women having what's comically
called "resting bitch face." They just don't look particularly cheery when not
making an expression, usually people with "ethnic" features like deeply set
eyes, chubbier jowls, wider faces, darker eyes, natural 'bags' under eyes, etc
that compared to an Anglo person makes them look angry or annoyed. As someone
with this ethnicity (Mediterranean descent) its something I have to constantly
work on as to not intimidate others.

I think your take on things is a very "white" and Western view. Different
cultures and ethnicity have different facial standards and its impossible to
make broad statements like these.

~~~
jdbernard
> This is total pseudo-science, like a modern phrenology.

How do we know? I haven't heard of any studies that compare people's first
impressions against the person's actual disposition or personality.

For example, this article pointed out that honesty was a trait people tend to
read from faces, but it didn't ask the question: are people's reading
accurate? It assumes that an honest-looking face has no bearing on a person's
actual integrity, but maybe it does. We haven't actually measured.

To be clear: I'm not trying to agree or disagree with you, just point out that
we don't have any strong evidence either way. As far as I know both positions
are unsupported scientifically.

~~~
plonh
When making up theories, the burden of proof is on you.

------
mashematician
Couldn't help but be reminded of Ted Chiang's "Liking What You See: A
Documentary"
[http://www.ibooksonline.com/88/Text/liking.html](http://www.ibooksonline.com/88/Text/liking.html)

------
charlieflowers
If you accept that our brains automatically make these judgements and
therefore we're unlikely to be able to train ourselves out of it, then the
most interesting question is:

"How do you hack this?"

What can an individual do to maximize good judgements? How can you influence
the amount of competence or dominance or trustworthiness others automatically
attribute to your face?

------
sosuke
I really don't like the sound of this, just how far does it need to go? The
end result is everyone being exactly the same as everyone else right? Same DNA
even? But somehow if you made that society they would find a way to tell each
other apart, and make snap judgments.

 _In the past, this “face-ism” (as Olivola and his colleagues call it) was
considered an unfortunate fact of life. But the more they come to understand
its pervasive influence, the more they are beginning to wonder if it should be
treated like any other prejudice. If so, it could be time to take action._

~~~
mc32
While wanting to wipe innate human tendencies borders on dangerous, it's not a
bad idea to be conscious about it.

We should not want to begin proscribing people's behavior in minutiae --we
have enough laws telling you what you can't do, but modifying psyche to
counter these tendencies can cut both ways.

Imagine people suing for someone not liking them because they had mentioned
something about their appearance.

------
Irene
I suppose applicants with faces judged as competent and dominant (and looking
like Zuckerberg, etc) tend to come out on top after video pitches in startup
incubator applications.

------
facepalm
In this video Dan Ariely mentions some interesting research about the effects
of beauty: [http://bigthink.com/videos/dan-ariely-on-advantages-of-
physi...](http://bigthink.com/videos/dan-ariely-on-advantages-of-physical-
attractiveness)

Apparently research has shown that while taller people tend to earn more
money, it depends on their height during puberty. People grow at different
times, so some people who are tall later in life might not have been so in
puberty, while others where already tall in puberty.

The hypothesis is that the effect of tall people earning more might actually
be the result of them being more confident, due to already having been tall in
their teens. Some effects of beauty might show the same relation.

------
carlmcqueen
This article seems to be talking out the reality that our brains handle the
big data of life by generalization, ignoring that in small samples things can
be quite different than the group average.

When I see a big, tattoo covered individual I feel more nervous than unmarked,
average sized individuals. Having grown up with a sister who eventually
majored in photography I know plenty of tattoo'd people who are amazing people
and often artistic and creative, but my brain still sends the signals.

We are very likely judged whether we like it or not by appearance, but I feel
there is plenty we can do about some of it. I take this article to remind
myself to own my appearance and what is says and be conscious that it may be
deciding things for me.

~~~
Thriptic
> When I see a big, tattoo covered individual I feel more nervous than
> unmarked, average sized individuals. Having grown up with a sister who
> eventually majored in photography I know plenty of tattoo'd people who are
> amazing people and often artistic and creative, but my brain still sends the
> signals.

I'm a fairly large individual, and I discovered recently that my resting face
is normally somewhat of a scowl. I've had instances where I will be walking
around a neighborhood which I feel somewhat nervous and unsafe in only to have
people walk across the street when they see me coming. I was perplexed by this
until I realized much to my amusement that I am actually the type of person
that people are afraid of bumping into based on appearances, and so my fear
was unjustified.

------
ericdykstra
Can anyone share actionable tips about how to make a better first impression?

Of course, much of beauty, attraction, first impression, etc is genetic, as
this article points out. But what are some aspects that can be controlled?
Anything from daily preparation stuff (what types of clothes we wear, what
colors, to shave or not to shave) to the way we walk, or the way we talk, our
facial expression, how we greet someone new, etc...

If anyone knows of some research or has any anecdotes, I'd like to hear of it!

------
dottedmag
So, how to beat the game then? Say, an instruction how to apply a touch of
makeup before going to the business meeting or to the interview.

~~~
facepalm
Makeup is certainly a traditional way to game it - that's essentially the
point of makeup. Supposedly in medieval times women even took laudanum to make
their pupils wider.

------
frandroid
Wait, we judge people by their looks, more often than not subconsciously?!

------
biturd
Maybe we are not born this way, and it is our life and work experiences that
make our faces that way. There is the obvious, construction worker, out in the
sun, their face it going to get weathered and a more "hard" looking individual
will come out. And perhaps he got into construction as a result of somewhat
challenging life, which made him frown all the time so he got frown lines,
which makes a person look a certain way, even distrusting.

Many things can influence how we look. And from this article it seems the
markers are very subtle. I would almost expect to see people getting minor
cosmetic surgery, where some lines are removed, some accentuated, an eyebrow
tuck here, an eye pull there, a lip push here, a wrinkle added there.

All these are minimal invasive compared to full on look altering cosmetic
surgery. We just have to figure out what to polish and what to prematurely age
and distress.

------
lsniddy
People ask me for directions all the time, and I've always been convinced this
was the reason. I also think body size and appearance plays a part

Wouldn't it be neat if you offered a service that would rate you on some
important dimensions so you new your relative score?

------
pcthrowaway
This was submitted with the title of the article and then changed to this
("Others may be unconsciously judging your features in ways you don't
realise") in the time it took me to read it. Isn't the policy here that
article submissions _should_ be submitted with the title of the article?

~~~
jcfrei
I agree, this seems like mod intervention solely aimed at discrediting the
article (ie. making it appear shallow and unscientific). I'm not saying this
is a great article but the edit is unnecessary.

~~~
asyncwords
Keep in mind that the submitter can edit the title for up to one (two?) hours
after submitting it.

~~~
AdamFernandez
Unfortunately I did not edit it.

------
th0waway
Category view versus inside view, as expounded upon in another link on HN
today: [http://edge.org/events/the-edge-master-class-2007-a-short-
co...](http://edge.org/events/the-edge-master-class-2007-a-short-course-in-
thinking-about-thinking)

Funny how category view seems to work for everything EXCEPT human beings
</sarcasm>

------
toolsadmin
More PC rubbish. Soon we'll all have to wear brown paper bags over our heads
and speak through a gender-neutral, computer generated microphone voice lest
someone gets upset or gets an "unfair" advantage.

~~~
adrusi
The article didn't suggest that people with more "desirable" faces do anything
to prevent an unfair advantage. It merely brought to attention a universal
prejudice, with a suggestion that people, especially those making decisions
wrt employment, be aware of the prejudices, so that they don't unfairly
disadvantage candidates, and so that they don't dismiss someone who might be a
better candidate solely on the basis of their looks.

~~~
toolsadmin
Sure it did. How about here: “The question is, do we want to spend government
money protecting bad looking people when – it’s my personal view – other
groups merit more attention?”

Thats as much of a hint on government regulation as it can be.

