
Tell HN: We write the algorithms. We need to understand propaganda - 3pt14159
Yesterday I learned that George Orwell is again a best selling book. That&#x27;s good, but probably already read by people around here. What I&#x27;ve been reading are two books to understand the rise of demagoguery and propaganda around the world:<p>1. https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.ca&#x2F;Propaganda-Formation-Attitudes-Jacques-Ellul&#x2F;dp&#x2F;0394718747<p>2. https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.ca&#x2F;World-Will-Representation-Vol&#x2F;dp&#x2F;0486217612<p>I&#x27;m only just starting these two[1] but they&#x27;ve already caused a fundamental change in how I perceive propaganda and how I think about what leads a person to have distorted, clearly false views.<p>The first thing I&#x27;ve learned is that propaganda is measured. That it operates like a business where outcomes are measured and tests run on smaller populations. That most countries do it, but that the most effective propaganda is selectively highlighting the truth so that the source develops trustworthiness.<p>The other thing I learned is that propaganda isn&#x27;t about shifting someones opinion, though that is often a useful middle step, it&#x27;s about driving specific actions, like getting someone to stay home on voting day or getting someone to join the military.<p>I&#x27;m not advocating that all of us here go and buy the same book. What I&#x27;m trying to highlight is that propaganda is now in full force online and we&#x27;re the ones (web developers, designers, data analysts, machine learning developers, sys admins) that have the most amount of power to augment our technical knowledge to push the world towards a peaceful, more prosperous future by fighting falsehood-riddled propaganda.<p>Lastly, if you&#x27;re a reputable angel investor interested in fighting back, I&#x27;m working on a stealth[2] startup that I think will make a lot of money and really help the world. My email is in my profile.<p>[1] Really, Schopenhauer is probably too cerebral for most and more focused on philosophy and will not on propaganda itself, so I only really recommend the first.<p>[2] For obvious reasons.
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babyrainbow
I have been noticing something curious for a while.

It feels as if, in various fields, some kind of test is being carried out to
"test the waters", to see how much shit one can get away without being called
out by people..

In hollywood, this manifest itself as blockbuster movies. Superhero movies,
Christopher nolan movies movies like John wick, Madmax fury road etc.

I mean look at this shot from the trailer of a war movie from Nolan

[https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/5ieu3i/the_bombs_in...](https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/5ieu3i/the_bombs_in_dunkirk_required_you_to_throw/)

And another mixup from the same movie

[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3732234/One-
smi...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3732234/One-smirking-
extra-accused-ruining-trailer-WWII-film-Dunkirk.html)

It is unbelievable that this is from a movie from one of the biggest names in
Hollywood! This is the continuation of the sound mixing issues of his previous
movie..

People did point to these issues, but they gets drowned in a million
apologetic voices...

In this cases, the propaganda appears in form of Hype. The hype generation
machinery starts working years before the actual release of the movie.

And when it has completely run its course, what you will have is a body of
people who will pay to see the movie, and - this is the important part - _will
be blown no matter what_ and _will not stop talking about it_. It is as if
they are under some spell or something.

And no, I don't think only your average joe is susceptible for this
manipulation. Even professional movie reviewers will fall for this.

In programming world, you see this happen with things like git. I am not
saying Linus is running a propaganda on purpose. But may be, it just so
happened because of his god like status in the minds of the people...

And I think with these recent events, we are seeing how far the rabbit hole
goes....

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Micoloth
Thanks for sharing this. I too strongly feel that a much wider awareness over
these topics will be extremely important in the times that are coming.
Expecially among the people who are really able to judge these tools, like
data scientists and AI developers.

I'm really hoping a healthy and large debate will come on over this topic, and
sharing this kind of thoughts is extremely important for this.

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owebmaster
> What I've been reading are two books to understand the rise of demagoguery
> and propaganda around the world

Is it "Yes, we can!" demagogy by your book? If so it didn't rise recently
(unless 10+ years are recent by your measurement).

Hackers knowing more about propaganda is a dangerous thing. It was what
brought us Facebook and Google changing elections.

~~~
iklos55
it also brought us pgp and tor

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Cozumel
If you're interested in this read anything you can by Edward Bernays and take
a media studies course. Advertising (propaganda) is a huge part of it, even
down to the opening sequence of TV programmes, it's an eye opener.

