

Show HN: I made a mind map tool meant for large, detailed node hierarchies - agsilvio
https://www.jumproot.com
jumproot.com
======
tunesmith
I tend to believe people naturally think in graphical structures, not trees.
It's sort of an impedance mismatch though because our physical world is tree
based - you can't put an object in more than one container. So we're
continually struggling to transition back and forth, to the point that we
unnaturally try to force our thoughts into tree structures like outliners.

~~~
ismail
Exactly this. Also most information of any complexity has multiple
“categories” it could fall into.

What you actually want is a network graph of concepts and notes. This will let
you see relationships.

~~~
qbonnard
Trilium Notes[0] allows that. In fact I'm surprised that it's not mentioned
here, because when I discovered it (via HN IIRC), it seemed to me that Trilium
had already implemented everything I could have ever thought of for a note
taking/personal knowledge management tool, and more.

[0] [https://github.com/zadam/trilium](https://github.com/zadam/trilium)

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kingkongjaffa
This is categorically not a mind map.

Mind Maps are visual in ther organisation and structure.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_map](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_map)

~~~
cocoa19
I know this kind of hierarchical list as an outline. But good point, it
doesn't look like a mindmap.

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nexuist
In a similar vein, I recommend workflowy:
[https://workflowy.com](https://workflowy.com)

Kudos on the design though. Clean and simple, and reminds me of the Windows XP
help window that would come bundled with every major desktop app.

~~~
solarkraft
Workflowy is nice and easy, but seems a bit like the crappy MVP for Dynalist.

~~~
owenshen24
Agree that Dynalist is nicer, as it has features like multiple documents.

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zawerf
[https://gingkoapp.com/](https://gingkoapp.com/) is another similar app.

Like some of the other commenters in the thread, I gave up on these apps and
went back to using filesystem folders/files.

~~~
Terretta
The editor Ulysses supports markdown, but more relevantly, supports
folder/file structure such that trees of hierarchy can be selected at once to
become part of a same generated master document.

[https://ulysses.app/tutorials/split-merge-
glue](https://ulysses.app/tutorials/split-merge-glue)

(You can also just select and then export, which does a temporary glue, more
or less.)

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JMTQp8lwXL
Nice tool. Some feedback: The drag and drop functionality has some
accessibility issues: it works with a mouse, but not keyboard navigation. This
interface would be difficult to use with mobility issues: moving items
requires fine-grained gesture control.

If you're interested in an accessible implementation of drag and drop, here's
one I've encountered that does an excellent job:

[https://github.com/atlassian/react-beautiful-
dnd](https://github.com/atlassian/react-beautiful-dnd)

~~~
agsilvio
Thank you!

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rodolphoarruda
I miss "The Brain", a mind map tool from the late 1990s, beginning of 2000s.
The cool thing was that you could link an object (called "idea") to any other
object regardless of it being a parent, child, part or not of the same tree
structure.

~~~
moioci
This Brain? [https://www.thebrain.com/](https://www.thebrain.com/)

~~~
rodolphoarruda
Yes! Thanks for sharing.

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jkmcf
The Zettelkasten method and The Archive allow you to link to other
ideas/notes. It takes a bit more effort than I’ve given it, but it looks
promising. They have a pretty active forum with a lot of good ideas for using
it. The method can also be used in other apps such as nvAlt, Sublime Text, and
Notion (I believe).

[https://zettelkasten.de/the-archive/](https://zettelkasten.de/the-archive/)

[https://forum.zettelkasten.de/discussions](https://forum.zettelkasten.de/discussions)

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lcall
Another hierarchical organizer: AGPL, desktop- and keyboard-oriented, highly
efficient, I use every day because org-mode was more awkward to me:
[http://onemodel.org](http://onemodel.org) . (My progress has been slow lately
but I have plans: feedback welcome, especially if on the mailing list.)

Anything can be nested anywhere, so I put effectively _all_ my notes in it on
everything. In college it would have been a huge help. It exports to text
outlines (w/ or w/o legal numbering) which I've found useful when sharing info
before the real sharing feature is implemented.

(The idea behind it is to reduce knowledge to an atomic level, as an object
model: things we _know_ have relationships to other concepts, can be expressed
as measurements, etc. But it is cumbersome to create an object model anew, for
every app. Right now, it is really good at supporting a big, efficient list of
lists (based in postgresql), with attributes, and very minimal support for
defining classes on the fly as a side-effect of use. But I really hope to be
able to add anki-like (spaced repetition / flashcard-like) features, internal
scripting, hosting, and secured sharing of info between instances, so it
becomes like a wiki in convenience, but more efficient and computable rather
than piles of words for everything).

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ozim
I just stopped using such tools and use visual studio code and file system.
Folders and text files I can grep it and I can keep history in git.

~~~
mszcz
Had the same general idea but with Sublime Text and Dropbox. Searching text
files is all the ways faster. Also, no need to use the mouse most of the time.
Syncs seamlessy and moving around notes/files is way easier.

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vinceguidry
Fun! I started building my own Workflowy replacement too, mostly because I got
tired of not being able to extend it, I can only export my data. My idea is to
not stop at 'basic' data types, but to provide a pluggable architecture to
_code_ in. Godspeed to you good sir.

~~~
agsilvio
Yup. We're on to it. God speed to you too!

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solarkraft
I'm still looking for a good replacement for Dynalist, which is not free
software (important because such data/workflow is too important to be at the
mercy of a third party).

Extra structure would be a nice addition, but without the source code I don't
think this will do.

~~~
agsilvio
This is a very good point. Does it help that one can export his/her tree to a
very readable JSON file? From that perspective, the data is not locked to
jumproot.

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agsilvio
I see a lot of comments revolve around the note taking, mind mapping aspect of
jumproot (which is 100% on point). I just want to invite everyone to try the
other aspects of the site, such as document structuring/viewing and the
different node types. Have fun!

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CharlesW
As someone who's used several outliners, this looks like a neat tool.

I'm curious why you decided to call this a "mind-mapping tool", which makes me
think of visual graphs rather than textual hierarchies. Can you talk about
that decision?

~~~
agsilvio
Thanks for the feedback. To answer your question:

To me, a mind map is a tool with which one can map his/her mind. I see some
comments that claim that colourful and interesting graphics should be a part
of that definition. I disagree. With such mind mapping tools, I've found that
it's that "cartoony" nature that limits their size. I wanted a mind-map tool
in which I could store every little piece of minutia that I want and have it
organized. I don't need the graphics, have search.

I hope that relays my thinking a bit.

~~~
basch
A mind map usually has a relational component. Can one Item show up on two
lists, and if it changes in one place, it changes in the other? They also tend
to be drawn from the center outward, and have color as an additional dimension
of information (categories?).

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human_banana
Keep it all plain text, but still have lots of functionality with org mode

[https://orgmode.org/](https://orgmode.org/)

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sh87
Reminded me of KeyNote NF [1]. Very reliable, super small, keyboard shortcut
friendly, supports images and cross links has everything I need for organizing
my data except data sync and that its windows only.

[1]: [https://sourceforge.net/projects/keynote-
newfeat/](https://sourceforge.net/projects/keynote-newfeat/)

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mellab
I have to reply just because this is so bizarre. Just last night I had been
conceptualising a product just like this in my head... right down to the
“viewer” nodes which are a representation of their children. However I was
thinking that instead of having a rich text node you would have a viewer node
and each paragraph, heading could be its own node.

~~~
agsilvio
Great minds think alike. Let's work on it together. Give me some feedback on
what you'd like to see. Thanks mate.

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daok
It looks like OneNote where you can have several NoteBook, Section, and Pages
that can be at different levels. In the end, you can have a similar
hierarchical structure. The advantage of OneNote is it is native cross-
platform (Android, Mac, Windows, iPhone) with sync, ink, etc.

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aldoushuxley001
Looks cool, I always loved the hierchical nested node structures (like folders
or e.g. trees) to organize my data.

Would you be willing to tell what your tech stack is like? And what are you
using for Rich text editors?

Great work tho. Looks good.

~~~
agsilvio
Thank you. I don't mind sharing at all. Please be forgiving and constructive
because I am a one man show here.

Tech stack: \- This is a django app. MVC. No separate API project and UI
project. \- Front end is basically Bootstrap 4 and jquery. \- The tree is
FancyTree \- The DB is SQLite because there are no users. When usage becomes
significant, I can easily migrate to MySQL. \- Rich Text is Summernote.

I am 100% sure I would do this differently now. But I started it a few years
ago and have kept it pretty much private. Thanks for checking in!

~~~
aldoushuxley001
Love the stack. Great call on Django, definitely makes it easier for a one man
show. Also good decision to eschew an API for now as it’s just more overhead
that’s not currently needed.

Have you checked out the great djangochat.com yet? Awesome content there.

Also, just curious, what would you do differently if you started from scratch
today?

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jcelerier
what does this gain over Zim ([https://zim-wiki.org/](https://zim-wiki.org/))
which is additionally muuuch faster

~~~
agsilvio
It's online.

~~~
jcelerier
considering that I'm typing this message from a train with a very spotty
connection, I'd consider that a huge downside.

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2sk21
I like this. This could become the basis for a personal outboard memory. Add
some intelligence and this could become the basis for a personal virtual
agent.

~~~
agsilvio
Thank you!

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_august
What are the differences compared to WorkFlowy?

~~~
agsilvio
The differences are mainly:

\- Features (I'm a one man show) \- The UI (I think mine is better organized)
\- Node Types (Jumproot has different and interesting node types)

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netfl0
Looks like .org mode. I love trees.

~~~
agsilvio
Yes it does! Someone showed me that and it looks great.

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ljw1001
the great advantage of mind maps like those from the old FreeMind app, is that
by putting the root in the middle and branching on both sides, you can fit a
lot more information in a standard screen without scrolling.

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aruggirello
Hierarchical note taking tools aren't new.

Here's my favorite:

[http://www.giuspen.com/cherrytree/](http://www.giuspen.com/cherrytree/)

