
Ask HN: How do you take care of your hands? - artsyca
This question may seem like it&#x27;s coming out of the blue but I realize that we as technology professionals use our hands in unique ways that lead to unique conditions, for example I suffer from hangnails a lot and I know RSI is a deep concern<p>-- What are your ways of helping your hands deal with constant computer use?
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Yetanfou
Do physical work, use them in the way they evolved to be used. I have a farm
which helps here as well, land and forest give enough opportunity to behave in
typical primate-specific ways. I also build stuff around here, now building
another barn. I find the combination of physical and intellectual work
complements each other in many ways and thought out many a solution while
sitting on the tractor.

For the rest I just wash 'm, really...

------
richev
In addition to the basics (decent workstation setup, monitor(s) at proper
height, good quality chair), I make sure I'm using a good ergonomic
keyboard[1] and a mouse that's suited to my hand size[2]. I'm left-handed, but
can use a mouse with either my left of right hand, so every few months I
switch my setup over, to even out mouse hand usage.

I also moisturize[3], although not as much as I probably should.

[1] [https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-ergonomic-
keyboard...](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-ergonomic-
keyboard/90pnc9ljwpx9)

[2] [https://www.microsoft.com/accessories/en-
us/products/mice/co...](https://www.microsoft.com/accessories/en-
us/products/mice/comfort-mouse-4500/4fd-00025)

[3] [https://www.amazon.com/Nivea-Plus-Care-
Cream-100ml/dp/B000SQ...](https://www.amazon.com/Nivea-Plus-Care-
Cream-100ml/dp/B000SQIGPM)

------
cheald
Deadlifts, farmer's carries, pullups, anything else in my strength routine
that improves forearm and wrist strength.

I'm operating under the theory that a stronger body is harder to break. Seems
to be working fine so far.

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_nalply
My experience: The combinantion of signing (being Deaf) and programming were
deathly to my wrists. I had carpal tunnel surgery on both hands and now they
are fine. First the right hand then two years later the left hand. They
recovered completely but it took a long time (18 months). I could work with
the hands after 1 month but felt pain when pressure was applied on the scar
even a year later. For example biking was a problem. Now I feel that my
fingers aren't as strong as before, but I still think it was worth it.

Before surgery I also switched the mouse to the left hand, and a bonus of it,
now I can use two mouses simultaneously (for example the laptop mouse with one
hand and the desktop mouse with the other hand).

Another bonus: My wife is left-handed therefore I can use her system without
fiddling with the mouse. I always took care to switch the buttons when using
the mouse left-handed. This means it's like going over to the UK and suddenly
driving on the other side of the road with a rental car and not my own
continental car. The side where I sit in the car is the middle of the street.
This thinking also helps with switching mouses, so that's why it's important
to switch the mouse buttons, at least for me it get's easier because of
symmetry.

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gaspoweredcat
Following a botched operation that crippled my right hand I learned a number
of exercises to stretch the nerves that control your hands, one in particular
seemed most effective.

Stretch your arm out fully to the side so it is level with your shoulder with
your palm facing upwards, now bend your hand down as far as you can while
keeping it flat with your fingers together, now tilt your head away from the
direction of the arm. You will feel a tight pull in the arm and neck, it may
hurt a little but repeat it as many times as you can, this excercise helped
restore a lot of the movement in my hand

~~~
artsyca
beautiful exercise

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sawmurai
Do strength training. If your computer use is always 100% of what your body
has to do is quickly becomes 100% of what it is capable of doing

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nitsuaeekcm
I’ve been battling pretty severe RSI for a couple of years now. My
unscientific and anecdotal couple of cents:

\- Get an arm roller and use it regularly to massage and stretch your tendons

\- Keep warm. Wear a sweatshirt while typing. My RSI flares when my arms
become cold. I suspect it’s because of the generic tightening of muscles with
temperature

\- As odd as it seems, weightlifting seems to really help

\- Use a mouse, but alternate hands regularly to give your clicking muscles a
break. This one may take some practice

\- Wear wrist braces while sleeping. I found out pretty late that I was
sleeping while putting some weird pressures on my wrists and hands. I rarely
wake up with pain in the mornings now

\- Spend less time messing around on your phone. It’s never as bad as using a
full computer, but it’s certainly less productive

\- Work less. Your health isn’t worth it

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DoreenMichele
I do a lot of walking.

When circulation is poor, the extremities take it the hardest. That includes
hands, feet, ears and nose.

Improving my circulation has helped resolve a lot of the hand issues I once
had. I have visibly healthier, stronger nails. My hands and feet don't readily
get cold like they once did.

Etc.

~~~
magicbuzz
I spent a few weeks doing a long hike.. and found, to my surprise, my arms and
back were much more flexible and some difficulty I had with stretching my left
arm had completely gone. I think that just the movement of my arms while
walking each day had been very beneficial.

~~~
DoreenMichele
For some years now, I've thought about trying to do some kind of diagram that
illustrates how your hands, feet, ears and nose get shorted when you have poor
circulation. I don't know how to illustrate it.

If you have a "cup half full," it's the same areas that consistently get less
oxygen, fewer nutrients, etc. Over time, that takes a very big toll.

I used to read medical records as part of my job. Diabetes, which is a blood
issue, significantly impacts the feet. After many years of poor blood sugar
control, feet issues become so serious that diabetics can end up needing to
have a foot amputated.

I don't think it matters that much how much you move your arms per se. If you
do aerobic exercise to strengthen your circulatory system, it eventually
impacts the feet and hands significantly.

I was born with a serious medical condition that negatively impacts my
circulation. After getting diagnosed, I began redressing a backlog of lifelong
issues.

As circulation to my hands improved, I had pus appear under my cuticles. I
spent weeks or months waking up with very painfully sensitive fingertips. My
hands began to slough dead skin.

This stuff went on for a long time. I wasn't exercising my hands particularly.
I was just improving my baseline health, including my circulation.

N=1 (sort of -- my son with the same condition also had a lot of hand drama as
we got healthier)

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dkersten
I'm a programmer and a hobbyist sleight of hand card magician, ie two things
that require my hands to be in good health.

I use a Kinesis Advantage 2 ergonomic keyboard. They're not cheap, but they
greatly help with comfort IMHO. I greatly regret not buying one ten years
earlier (I almost did, but put it off due to the cost). I use it with a foot
pedal for shift and other things. I would highly recommend that any programmer
seriously consider getting or trying one out.

If I feel stain or pain, I will sleep while wearing wrist braces to keep the
joints straight at night. Its a bit weird and uncomfortable, but you get used
to it. I haven't needed to do it in about a year.

Regular breaks and stretches are also good and keeping your joints warm helps
prevent damage. Also, I see a lot of people at conferences and in the office
hammering their keyboards as if on an old-school typewriter. Don't do that.

Also, as others have mentioned, keeping your keyboard (and everything else) at
a proper height is important. Exercise (for your hands an in general) are
great too, as others have said. Some great advice here today!

Finally, if you have carpel tunnel specifically, I recommend trying these out:
[https://www.mycarpaltunnel.com/carpal-tunnel-
treatment/ligam...](https://www.mycarpaltunnel.com/carpal-tunnel-
treatment/ligament-stretching/) They're a bit pricey and not guaranteed to
work, but they did for me. The pain went away after about 3 to 4 weeks and
hasn't really come back (after heavy typing on a bad keyboard without breaks
maybe, but nothing a wrist brace for the night didn't sort out). I've been
pretty much pain free for 1.5 years since using that. Anecdotal, I know...

~~~
tboyd47
I second the Advantage2. Go ahead and get the quiet version because the
original can be quite loud.

~~~
dkersten
Oh yes! Should have mentioned, Cherry MX Brown all the way :)

------
oedmarap
Learn to play either the piano or guitar.

I've played the former since I was a child and apart from the benefits to your
brain and skillset, the muscular development in the fingers (esp the ring and
pinkie) greatly enhances overall finger/hand strength, stretching, dexterity,
tone, and vascularity – especially as you age.

Pick up martial arts if you can.

I practice Karate but hairline fractures in the knuckles are a bit of a risk
due to the hard nature of the style. I recommend something a bit more fluid
like Kung Fu or Jiu Jitsu to increase overall strength and mobility for the
fingers, hands, and wrists.

Use Kettlebells, and do swings.

I use KB's almost exclusively and they help to build gripping strength and
stability for both the hands and forearms. Kettlebell swings specifically help
to strengthen the posterior chain and correct bad posture – which is crucial
for those of us who are sitting in front a screen for most of the day. It's
also an excellent form of high-intensity interval training that won't take up
much of your time.

Use Epsom salts.

A few times a week I'll mix some Epsom salts in a basin of lukewarm water and
let my hands soak for up to 15 minutes. Very therapeutic.

Take Collagen protein.

I make my own bone broth using a slow cooker– cheap and easy. Collagen is
highly beneficial for joints and ligaments, including of course the wrist,
elbows, fingers, etc. You can also get the tabs or powder too if that's easier
than making broth.

------
SAI_Peregrinus
Colemak keyboard, mechanical w/CherryMX Browns (blues or a Model M would be
better, but I'm in an open office so I'd be shot within the week...) Good
positioning, sit/stand desk, etc.

I also rock climb, so I regularly stretch & exercise my fingers. Things like
fingertip pull-ups & pinch-grip lifting.

~~~
cassianoleal
Came to this thread hoping to find a fellow rock climber.

I've had a few finger injuries related to climbing but none of them disabling
in any way (I had to go off climbing for a week or two once but typing was
always ok).

I guess the fact that I used to play basketball a lot in my teen years has
also helped strengthen my tendons. It's not fun when the ball hits the tip of
a stretched finger bang on and your tendons are not up to par.

Rock on!

------
stunt
\- Take short breaks every 20 minutes.

\- Don't use keyboard on weekends (Your body needs time to recover)

\- Have a decent setup. Desk and chair height, arm rest position, keyboard and
good size mouse.

\- Invest on a good keyboard. I use Kinesis-Advantage-2. You can also go extra
miles with Dvorak.

\- Use vim key bindings. (You can use it on any editor even on your web-
browser)

\- At least 15 mins daily exercise for your hands, neck, and shoulders.

\- Do physical activities to maintain muscle health.

\- Do sport but not too hard.

For hangnails, use a normal hand cream every morning and every night before
going to bed. The first few days is annoying to have greasy hands if you are
not used to it. After some minutes it vaporizes or absorbs into the skin.

It took me less than a month to get rid of hangnails. After that I only apply
a little bit before going to sleep.

------
mrbonner
Besides getting a good ergonomic keyboard and taking frequent breaks like
other comments mentioned here, moderate strength training exercise is a must.
I gave up strength training and focused on just running for the last 3 years.
Running was the only exercise I did. I was in shape and had good general
health but my neck and shoulder and back really bothered me. My family doctor
suggested that I incorporate strength training into my routine. So, I bought a
few dumbbells and a bench for my home gym. I haven’t had a stiff neck or sore
shoulders, back for a couple of months now (knocking on wood). I hope this is
the cure for our profession.

------
srijanshetty
I use the Kinesis Freestyle 2 keyboard which is a split mechanical keyboard
and it has helped me keep my back ache in check as well.

Apart from the above, I ensure that I'm going to the gym/doing physical
activities at least 4 days a week.

------
Ididntdothis
I have a daily yoga practice to keep the whole body reasonably strong and
flexible. I don’t think it helps much to focus on specific parts of the body
while neglecting others. The whole system needs to be in balance.

------
RichardHeart
Zero-gravity chair, monitor high and tilted down (wall mount 55" 4k TV works
great.) Keyboard and roller mouse free 2 stuck to a cutting board for
typing/mousing in lap. 1 ergodox per a arm rest was a fun experiment (Learning
to type on them slowed my normal typing from 116 down to 108wpm forever :( )
Suggest you stay on normal keyboard layout with better hand posture.
Especially if you ever need to use a laptop. Google split keyboard and you'll
find lots of options. I did a review on youtube of the Kinesys Advantage
split/sculpted keyboard.

~~~
artsyca
I use the Dvorak layout, been using it for 20 years or more

------
mnm1
Massage and self massage of the back with lacrosse ball

Pt

Chiro

Acupuncture

Sticky keys

Advantage 2

Adjustable desk and special chair (capisco and gaming chair with a high back)
[https://www.fully.com/chairs.html](https://www.fully.com/chairs.html)

Exercise daily

Martial Arts (wing chun need to do more)

Weightlifting (need to do more)

Braces if necessary while working or at night

Elbow wraps while working and at night if necessary

Sleeping on the back mostly

Regular breaks

Vacation (never enough to heal)

Using phone and tablets less (need more commitment)

Scraper on arms and cupping

Still have pain at times but usually I can relieve and minimize it. Working to
adopt more of these techniques into a daily or semi daily routine.

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TheEnder8
It's a personal thing. What works for one person might not work for another.

That being said, definitely invest in an excellent keyboard and mouse. If you
are going to spend 8+ hours a day using it, make sure it's comfortable. I
can't stand anything which isn't a mechanical keyboard. I have tried various
funny looking ergonomic models but haven't found them necessary yet.

Also, don't overlook your chair and desk. They might be forcing your hands
into an awkward position.

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joveian
One thing I would add is to make sure not to ignore any discomfort. It is easy
to get used to ignoring the signals that something isn't right and at least
for me changing my posture a bit helps when I start to notice trouble (if that
doesn't help, try something else or at least write down when you have
discomfort if you can't think of anything else to try in the moment so you are
not completely ignoring it).

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jedberg
I've use the Microsoft Natural Ergonomic keyboard for the last 15 years. I
also do weightlifting once a week to keep the forearms and finger strong.

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threwawasy1228
Extremely interested in an answer to this. I've tried many of the things that
people recommend and while I don't have any hand injuries from typing yet, I
would like to avoid them. The suggestions that people typically recommend
don't seem to do much of anything for me, I can't feel a significant
difference when I do the carpal tunnel stretches and when I don't.

~~~
PinkMilkshake
What have you already been recommended?

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belltaco
A long time ago my wrist started hurting after long PC use. I switched the
mouse to my left hand and haven't had problems since.

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croo
Nothing. But I switched to laptop only at my workspace and everything went
south for a while - wrist pain, back pain, eye tiredness, my posture was
always a mess, shoulder muscle cramped at the end of the day, etc... I
switched back to dual monitor + standard keyboard with a docking station and
the problems faded away. Posture really means a lot.

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emmelaich

      * trackpad not mouse and use sparingly
      * avoid emacs bindings - use evil/viper/... in Emacs and `set -o vi` in the shell.
      * elbow height at desk height
      * eye level near top of monitor level - this implies minimal use of a laptop without external accessories
      * I actually like the very short travel keyboards (e.g. mac)

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s_m_t
I keep away from the mouse. The slight repetitive movements used to control
(most?) mice seem to be bad for the fingers.

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pixelpoet
Somehow both my hands and my eyes are fine as they've ever been (in particular
eyesight seems way above average, no glasses) in spite of total computer abuse
pretty much all day every day since I was a teenager; I'm 36 soon.

Not to brag, just a data point. Also I'm kinda curious how common or uncommon
it is.

~~~
bigiain
FWIW, my eyes made it to about 40 before I got pushed into having an eye test
because I'd started to get headaches in the late afternoon/evening - the
optometrist measured me up, gave me a reading glasses prescription, and told
me I had "perfectly normal 40 year old eyes"... :sigh:

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skocznymroczny
Getting a very low profile keyboard helped me the most. At work I use Apple
Wired Keyboard, at home I use a low profile mechanical.

In the past I used normal height mechanical keyboards and I could feel my
wrists hurting after 15 minutes of using them.

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sriram_malhar
I think the "Repetitive" part needs attention. Introduce variety, mindfulness
and health to everything you do: posture, eyesight, exercise, what you consume
(both corporeal and intellectual. It isn't just hands.

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sunstone
Get a Logitech "thumb ball" mouse. I've been using them for years and would
never go back.

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kevinherron
Years ago I switched to a Kinesis Advantage keyboard and a vertical mouse.

This year I started strength training which turned out to help as well.

------
LegitShady
1) sit on your chair so that so that your feet touch the ground comfortably.
For the vertically challenged, if your office chair doesn't go low enough for
you feet to comfortable contact the ground without weird angles, get an
adjustable angle foot stand.

2) make sure your keyboard and mouse are close enough to you, and that your
chair is close enough to your desk, that you aren't forcing yourself to hunch
over to type or mouse. bend your elbows at 90 degrees beside you, with your
arms forward as if you would use it. This is the most natural and least
damaging long term arm position. Set your adjustable arm rests to this height.

3) This or slightly lower is an ergonomic height to minimize weird bending in
shoulder, elbows, and wrists. This is roughly your optimum desk height. For
most people, non adjustable desks are way way too high to be ergonomic.

4) you can consider dropping the height another 1/2 inch ("slightly lower")
and get a wrist rest for your keyboard and an arm wrest for your mouse, which
minimize wrist bending if set up right and support your arm intermediataly,
but these are not for everyone.

5) If you're really into preserving your long term health, purchase a vertical
mouse or scroll mouse to use during non gaming times. They take some getting
used to but then you aren't always using the same muscles in the same
position. The goal here is to vary the use.

7) the top of your monitor(s) should be roughly around your comfortable eye
level so you aren't looking up.

8) Stretch your wrists and forearms every hour or two. One stretch I like to
do that has helped me with my tennis elbow is veru simple. Stand up with room
in front of you to swing your arms. Hold your arms all the way down with your
elbows straight or near straight and your fingers facing forward, palm down.

Slowly swing your arms forward and up, keeping your fingers facing forward.

As you get to the top of the arc, tilt your wrist forward and curl your
fingers. No need to make a fist.

Hold for 10-30 seconds where it feels like its stretching in your inner and
outer elbow, and in the tendons around your hand and wrist. Repeat a handfull
of time a day while working on a computer.

9) If something is hurting, this is an injury. Figure out what's causing it
and treat the cause, not just the injury, or it won't get better. Consider
reducing computer usage or activities with repetitive motions to let your arm
recover.

10) If the injury is accute (preferably before then, but definitely if it is
intefering with your day to day life) consider seeing a doctor. if you have
health benefits massage and physiotherapy are both very helpful along with
activity reduction. A doctor may recommend temporary use of NSAIDs topically
or as pills, or in more serious cases direct injection of anti inflammatory
steroids like cortisone. In cases with severe existing damage, they may
recommend surgery.

Look up some guides and get a desk you can adjust - even if with difficulty so
you only set it once - or something fancy with motors and control panel. Spend
money and time on the ergonomics of the things you use all the time - chair,
desk, monitor, keyboard, mouse. Your body will thank you for it.

------
villgax
Push ups & pull ups.

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etrautmann
I find that climbing helps prevent typing related RSI

~~~
et-al
Sorry I beg to differ. Climbing's great exercise, but the risk of joint-
related injuries are pretty high for climbers. One would be swapping out
typing RSIs for finger/shoulder/elbow pain.

------
cerberusss
Work 8 hours per day, and then go home.

