

Why I won’t buy another subsidized Android phone - scholia
http://www.geekwire.com/2013/wont-buy-subsidized-android-phone/

======
delsarto
How is the phone "subsidized" anyway; Apple or Android? Consider, say, buying
a 32gb iPhone 5 in Australia on Optus, for a 4GB unlimited plan is $3,120.00
over 24 months [1].

Or, you go and buy the phone from Apple for $899.00, and use Optus prepay for
4gb @ $70/month == (899 + (70 *24)) = 2579 [2] (I noticed this expired after
28 days; so maybe add another month cumulative).

Of course, as Scott Adams says the only reason all these companies exist is
the "confuseopoly" they create with various different plans that are the same
but slightly different with no clear benefits. So maybe my maths is wrong, but
good luck figuring it out in clear terms anyway. In Australia with all the
"$20 for $275 value" bull-crap it's especially bad. At least in the US it's
just plain "minutes" and M/B.

I think really it's the same with Android phones ... deliberate confuseopoly.
I agree with the author; after getting a cheap, underpowered, bloatware, never
updated Android piece-of-crap I have a simple rule -- Nexus or nothing.

[1]
[https://smb.optus.com.au/opfiles/Shop/All/cis/Cis%20Document...](https://smb.optus.com.au/opfiles/Shop/All/cis/Cis%20Documents/1390138_2_CIS_$130_Timeless_Plan_0113.pdf)

[2] <https://www.optus.com.au/shop/prepaidmobile/prepaidoffers>

~~~
dorian-graph
When I bought my iPhone 5 here in Australia, outright, amusingly a few people
seemed shocked because of the cost, apparently. They wondered why I would do
that instead of getting it for 'cheap' through a plan. I quickly did some
calculations like you did back then and it worked out a lot cheaper and I have
more freedom—I still have a contract though it is at least half the length!
I'm less tied to my provider and more able to change depending upon who is
offering the best service/price. I can't imagine any reason why I would go
back to a subsidised phone and so far a few friends have done the same as
myself.

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vy8vWJlco
What I want in a phone is the same thing I want in a computer or in
calculator: the ability to use it on any problem I choose. It just so happens
that subsidized phones typically come from businesses with incentives towards
lock-in (so you can expect what you will get). In the case of a phone, not
being able to change the software that comes with it (upgrade the OS or remove
bloatware), means I can't use it for every problem and it is a substantially
less useful tool for me. The solution at the PC level was providing a user-
accessible boot process. For a phone, this means an accessible bootloader is a
minimum requirement for me to make a purchase, at least at the computer-
equivalent ($100+) price-range. But, in general, I would not recommend buying
any computer that treats you like an appliance operator instead of an owner
and full user.

I'm not saying single-purpose software (or the idea of a walled garden) is
necessarily a problem, just that the inability to re-purpose is.

~~~
baddox
To play the devil's advocate, why should I treat every appliance that happens
to have a microprocessor in it as a general purpose computer with root access?
Personally, I _want_ some of my devices to have some of the same traits as
appliances. I like my phone to just work, always. I don't want to even be able
to misconfigure my phone in such a way that it doesn't work right.

Don't get my wrong, for my PCs this isn't the case. I still like to be able to
tinker, even if it means I can screw stuff up. But it's not that unreasonable
to be offered a phone without full customization (or without it being easy),
just like it is with microwaves, TVs, automobiles, etc.

Granted, this is a very subjective issue. Some people want little Linux PCs
with root access in their pockets, and for good reason. I'm just not one of
those people. End devil's advocate.

~~~
vy8vWJlco
OK, let's say you don't have control of your phone (or similar computer-like
device) that's designed to run only one software application. If you discover
that your phone is spying on you, or contains another defect, you have no way
to repair it. You can only throw it away - that is the highest level of
ownership/control you can exercise... That's your only reset button. You
cannot reuse the general platform within. I would call that a waste, and
certainly a reason to expect better. (Reset buttons are highly under-rated.)

Different people are happy with different levels of control that largely
depend on their level of expertise and resources. For example, to someone with
a flash programmer, many devices are already very open. To someone with an SD
card or a USB port, a bootloader is more empowering.

Again, while I can see the case for single-purpose software, there could be a
hardware override. For example, important/necessary firmware for the primary
use-case could ship on an SD card with a write-protect switch, but be
replaceable. Most desktop owners never replace their own hard drive, but that
feature comes in quite handy to the computer techs who are expected to, or if
the included software eventually fails and needs to be reset.

~~~
baddox
That all applies to appliances, right? If your microwave is spying on you, all
you can do is crack open the case on your own (analogous to hardware hacks or
jailbreaking) or throw it out. My point is that, for some people (even some
technology enthusiasts), configurability/extensibility is a low priority for
certain devices. And as for the people for whom configurability/extensibility
_is_ a top priority, I would just recommend they not buy the locked down
devices unless they're hoping to find or invent a way to circumvent the locks.

~~~
vy8vWJlco
Yes, I am also recommending to people to not buy devices that they do not feel
come with enough control. Phones are at the forefront of the convergence, but
I will invariably want to be able to override (and audit) the software in my
microwave too if I have any reason to believe it could harm me. For example,
if microwaves started coming with voice interaction, requiring a microphone
and an Internet connection, I would want to control the whole stack to be
confident that it was not being used to invade my privacy (or overcook my
meal), and to feel in control.

Edit: I should also note that adding the possibility of control doesn't cost
anything extra from the perspective of those who wouldn't use the higher
levels of control. The same simple interface would only have a "more control"
(aka settings) button, as usual, and as platforms converge the low-level
support pretty much comes for free (for example, if phones used x86_64 instead
of ARM, USB boot would be implied). The desktop is a pretty good model
actually.

~~~
flyinRyan
This is exactly what we're trying to get away from with "appliance as a
computer". The desktop is a good model for creators like most of us but it's
horrible if you're selling it.

The issue is, _if_ you provide a "more control" button there will be a lot
more people who imagine themselves competent enough to use than actually are.
And they're going to break their appliance. What do you think happens when
they do something stupid and break their appliance? Simple; they blame the
vendor being an incompetent piece of garbage.

This is the main reason that Windows, even today, has a reputation of being
unstable while OSX has the opposite. I suspect OSX probably has a higher bug-
per-loc but Apple tries to create a culture that doesn't "tweak" so they strip
out most of the "user doing something stupid" crashes.

Personally, as long as I can do whatever I want on my desktop, I'm fine if I
can't run a web server on my smart phone.

~~~
vy8vWJlco
> Reset buttons are highly under-rated.

~~~
flyinRyan
I would say they're _overrated_ by the tech crowd. They cause a lot of support
trouble for anyone who provides one.

~~~
vy8vWJlco
Actually, resetting a device solves most problems, as was repeatedly made fun
of by the appropriately-named (for your comment) "IT Crowd":

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2Ph8zwpNyI>

If I may only have one button in life, please, please, let it be reset (I
think it already is).

------
shalmanese
The problem with the US is that if you get a phone from the carrier, your plan
will be $X a month with a 2 year contract but if you BYO phone, the plan will
still be $X a month with no contract. This significantly reduces the incentive
to provide your own phone as you're essentially giving up on a $30 a month
subsidy.

Other countries (and T-mobile) have much more reasonable pricing models where
BYO gives you the option to avoid the subsidy.

~~~
baddox
Well, this is a bit of a stretch, but if you already have the unlocked phone,
you could still pay the subsidized price for a new device and instantly sell
it for a hefty profit. I say it's a stretch because it is still fairly
annoying, but I always do it for every upgrade on each of my family plan's
phone lines. We're going to keep paying for service for the foreseeable future
and not changing carriers anyway, so we might as well take advantage of the
subsidies that are built into the monthly bill. Plus, I can always have the
newest device if I so choose.

~~~
prostoalex
Why would the other guy buy it from you at a hefty profit instead of getting a
subsidized unit from the carrier? They have the same issue - if they're on a
mobile plan with a US carrier, the price of the plan won't change for them.

~~~
baddox
I never asked them, but plenty of people certainly do (you can check eBay to
verify this, but I've experienced it numerous times in person). I can
speculate a few reasons: someone on contract broke or lost their phone and
needs another, someone simply wants the newest best phone but isn't eligible
for a device upgrade (AT&T's upgrades come every 18 months, which is too long
to even stay on the latest iPhone, much less Android flagships), or someone
actually wants to use the device without a contract (I think some carriers
have prepaid plans that will work with their locked phones).

------
csmatt
I've only ever owned 2 smart phones - both android, both on tmobile, and both
unsubsidized. Those phones are 1) the Nexus One and 2) the Nexus 4.
Cyanogenmod let the N1 remain relevant for nearly 3 years. The N4 has 4x the
cores (each clocked at 1.5x the N1's single core) and 4x the memory. It's also
much faster on the network. All of this and I paid $200 less for the N4 than I
did for the N1. Google has proved to me that it's possible to make a kickass
phone that is affordable without the need for subsidy. If course, there will
always be a market for seeking people what they can't afford, but I like the
fact that the choice is there and that the community can decide how long a
phone is relevant/supported.

Also, tmobile is the least evil, large carrier IMO.

------
dirkgently
And nobody should. With Nexus4 available for 300$.

~~~
sgpl
There is a huge potential market for "cheap" smartphones particularly in
developing countries, and because of the nature of iOS, Android is the only
viable game in town. So people will continue to buy subsidized/cheap
smartphones for a long time, atleast outside of the US.

Bloomberg recently published a very informed article [1] on the subject where
one company, "Micromax increased shipments to 633,000 smartphones in the last
quarter of 2012 from 9,990 a year earlier, while [another], Karbonn grew to
304,000 from zero."

Because of the price disparity of phones from Apple/Reputable Android
manufacturers, there is a very large untapped market for sub_$100 smartphones
in China and India.

[1] <http://goo.gl/PHKIH>

~~~
kevin_p
I know you're mostly talking about cheap phones, but I'm still going to
quibble with the other half of your "subsidized/cheap smartphones" point.
Subsidised phones are much less common in developing countries because the
credit system is less developed. Even where they do exist, they're structured
as "buy the phone for $x then get $x/24 off your bill each month for 2 years"
rather than the "get the phone now and pay it off over the contract period"
system in the EU/US, so they're not a way of getting a phone you couldn't
afford to buy outright.

------
i_like_robots
My last phone came re-skinned and with default apps replaced by branded,
pretty poor carrier specific versions. After a few months some of these apps
stopped working and because they ran in the background I was inundated with
failure notifications for processes I didn't want and could not stop. It's
madness for a mobile phone operator to apply their control so uselessly.

Fortunately being a nerd has its benefits and I installed Cyanogen to avoid
the horror, but I can't see how the non-geek user would be able to sidestep
the bloat and bugs. The process for rooting and wiping the phone was extremely
long. If in future there is the possibility that the engineers of such mods
could create a one-click route there would be many more happy users.

------
andrewaylett
In some cases, a subsidised phone does make sense. I've got an S3 for
£26/month * 24 months, so £624 lifetime. Even six months later, the phone
costs £320 new, and the closest equivalent sim-only contract costs £13/month.
That's £632 lifetime, and requires a significant upfront cost.

The phone was more expensive to buy new when I took out the contract, and you
can get it with no up-front payment on a £21/month contract now, so in both
cases it's actually a better deal than presented above.

Android 4+ allows you to disable the bloatware, so that's not an issue either.

------
iSnow
While I have switched to Android because I don't like the way Apple locks down
their platform to the user, this article kind of validates the way Apple has
treated the carriers - disallowing branding and the installation of crapware
from the start.

I just wish Google would be more forthcoming with their security releases for
older platforms (notably 2.3) or had struck a better deal with device
manufacturers so that they could directly provide 4.x for smartphones from the
Nexus S era.

------
chiph
I'm not a cellphone expert - is it possible to buy an unsubsidized & unlocked
phone, and then reload Android direct from Google? So you don't get the
bloatware & "service monitoring" apps. What about device drivers?

~~~
CrazedGeek
Direct from Google, yes, but only the Nexus 4 currently (and historically a
few others). On other popular devices, no, but there are extremely well-
supported community distributions of Android for them (usually CyanogenMod or
AOKP). (Note that your phone has to have an unlocked bootloader for that
option, but most can be officially unlocked these days.)

~~~
chiph
The lack of LTE on the Nexus 4 isn't a deal-breaker for me. Having an
unpolluted OS is more important. Thanks for reminding me of this phone.

------
jonpaul
So which Android phone do you buy if you want unsubsidized on Verizon/LTE?
Sincere question.

~~~
shardling
I'm perfectly happy with my Galaxy Nexus -- while it was subsidized, its not
locked down in any way. I've had it for about a year and a half with no
problems.

~~~
jonpaul
Correct me if I'm wrong, I thought the Galaxy Nexus wasn't on Verizon? I also
thought that it didn't support LTE? Is that correct?

~~~
shardling
You're wrong. I'm on Verizon, and I get excellent LTE speeds with the GNex.
(It's possible you can't currently buy the phone on contract, but it certainly
works!)

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yoster
I never buy subsidized phones as the cost and contract can run into a couple
thousand in the long run. Generally, it is a lot better to just buy it up
front and go with one of the unlimited plans that run for $50 a month. The
savings are huge over time. This applies with all types of bills as well. I
even pay my car insurance in full as they generally charge $5-$10 a month if
you opt for the monthly payment.

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drivebyacct2
You can buy Nexii subsidized... (like my Galaxy Nexus Vzw, but I suspect
that's the last time we get Nexus on Vzw).

Also, you _can_ disable built-in Android apps. Please! How do we raise
awareness about this! It's been possible for sometime! Long press the app in
the drawer -> drag it to App Info -> Disable. Or Settings -> Apps -> All Apps
-> [App] -> Disable. [Or choose a notification, long press "App Information"
-> Disable (I think this is a 4.2 addition)].

Lots of ways to get there.

~~~
ansible
The app disable feature has been around since 4.0 (ICS). Note that you may
need to un-install any updates first, and then you'll be offered the ability
to disable the app. That doesn't help the journalist who had a v2.3 phone
though.

------
drivebyacct2
It's kinda funny. 3 or 4 years ago, all the rumors were: advertising based
free Android phones. But everyone thought Google was going to do it directly.
Instead, it turns out to be "free" via subsidy (and via subsidy, advertising):
carriers and their partners load cheap midrange Android phones up with their
apps/ads.

I'm happy to have always purchased Nexus or something I knew was well
supported by CM. As long as that continues to be true, I don't care what
Verizon sells, I'm happy.

