
The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty - dnetesn
http://nautil.us/issue/83/intelligence/the-pandemic-is-showing-us-how-to-live-with-uncertainty
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coldcode
We can live with uncertainly only until there is no food available in the
grocery stores (or anywhere, due to loss of production or logistics). If that
happens, then what happens next is certain, people will take food with guns to
feed their family. At that point we reach a place from which there is likely
no easy return.

This might also happen if enough people have no money to buy food with, or no
place to go to be fed. Not everyone is willing to die quietly of starvation.

Do we trust our state governments (or the Federal one) to be able to
prioritize feeding 350M people, or to concern itself with long term business
survival?

I fear this more than the disease.

~~~
gherkinnn
I have family from all sorts of sides in WW2.

If they managed to feed themselves despite naval blockades and bombings,
without the country completely falling apart, I don’t see why we can’t.

Of course, this might mean more agricultural land for vegetables instead of
livestock. Changing our behaviour. Make do with less-than-straight carrots.
People starting their own vegetable patches on balconies. Not throwing out
half the food we buy. Maybe rationing. It might very well suck.

We’re from a cushy world. It will take time to adapt. But in the face of
necessity we’ll manage.

The last thing we should do is to prepare (and hope?) for total anarchy.
Serves nobody.

~~~
StandardFuture
For some reason I never thought about using the rational and civilized
behavior of people in war-torn areas of WWII (specifically the UK & US) as a
response to these kinds of comments. The people then really were ok with
things like rationing (mostly of certain types of materials for war use).

There seems to be a large number of people who almost look forward to having
their favorite (post-)apocalyptic movie/video-game becoming reality. Let's not
pretend like there are not far too many people getting a minor degree of
pleasure from thinking about how they will "out-maneuver" their fellow man in
some sort of "apocalyptic end-game". The plethora of zombie shows, movies, and
games probably does not help with this either.

But, your WWII anecdote inspired me to tell these people: "be more like your
grandparents who remained heroic and civilized in the face of a purely chaotic
and even evil era."

~~~
overthemoon
Couldn't agree more. I think there's a very foolish, immature, and naive
impulse to fantasize about a dark future where we're fighting over scraps, but
it doesn't have to be that way. Let's not start intoning darkly about the
primal selfishness and animal nature of humans and instead plan to help out.
It's an opportunity for everyday heroism and civility, not adolescent
grindhouse survival fantasy.

~~~
JackRabbitSlim
You have the privileged position of having something to lose. To a significant
portion of our population, fighting over scraps is already the reality.

What exactly is irrational about a kid with 300k in debt and no job hoping
that a collapse could lead to a real future for himself and/or his kids?

~~~
gambiting
>>What exactly is irrational about a kid with 300k in debt and no job hoping
that a collapse could lead to a real future for himself and/or his kids?

For the start.....everything. No matter how much you're in debt and without a
job you're still immesurably better than after actual collapse of the society.
Unless your plan _really_ is to establish yourself as some kind of warlord
with guns and have others serve you. Which is about as realistic as Mad Max
is. There's literally nothing rational about it, not even as a fantasy unless
you're 12 and don't understand how the world works and what would actually
happen if the societes collapsed in some kind of post apocalyptic scenario.

~~~
SereneT
Totally Roman civilization collapsed in britian sometime around early 5th
century The next time anybody heard of central heating or plumbing on that
island was roughly 1500 years later As an electrician I'm always amazed at the
Wonder of how it all works, and at the blissful ignorance of many regarding
just how much hard work and professional knowledge is involved in, you know
such banalaties as keeping the lights on, the water running, the garbage
disappearing, the shelves stocked...

------
FerretFred
_“I believe most members of the public want to do the right thing,” said Sonja
Rasmussen, professor of pediatrics and epidemiology at the University of
Florida and a former executive at the CDC, in an email. “It’s essential that
people know the implications of their actions._

Nope. Just wrong. you only have to look at peoples' behaviour in parts of the
UK at the weekend to realise that even if some people know the implications of
their actions they don't care. The UK has largely degenerated into an
"entitled" society, and any veneer of sensibility and fairness has been
stripped away with a vengeance. Unfortunately for us, the Prime Minister's
advisers seem to think like Prof. Rasmussen and now we're in a dire situation.

~~~
growlist
> The UK has largely degenerated into an "entitled" society, and any veneer of
> sensibility and fairness has been stripped away with a vengeance.

Why _should_ people do the right thing when they feel they have _nothing in
common_ with their fellow countrymen? It used to be the case that we had a
strong shared national culture that enforced certain standards of behaviour,
and thus one had a stake in maintaining these standards due to collective
reciprocity, but we've been told for decades that said national culture is
hateful and outdated and must be destroyed without any decent replacement. I
cite Orwell:

'England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of
their own nationality.'

'If the English people suffered for several years a real weakening of morale,
so that the Fascist nations judged that they were ‘decadent’ and that it was
safe to plunge into war, the intellectual sabotage from the Left was partly
responsible.'

edit: yeah, suspected a dose of uncomfortable truth wouldn't go down easily.

~~~
mikestew
_yeah, suspected a dose of uncomfortable truth wouldn 't go down easily_

Even in middle-age, my ears aren’t so bad that I don’t know a dog whistle when
I hear it.

~~~
Chris2048
By dog whistle, you are suggesting what? By "shared national culture" he's
talking about something racist?

Isn't that _exactly_ the "national culture is hateful and outdated" notion
he's talking about?

~~~
fader
Yes, characterizing any anti-racist efforts as being "told for decades that
said national culture is hateful" and "must be destroyed without any decent
replacement" is a dogwhistle.

This sort of cherry picking and sliding definition of terms while pretending
to be "just asking some questions", however, is known as sealioning:
[https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Sealioning](https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Sealioning)

~~~
Chris2048
> characterizing any anti-racist efforts as..

I know what a dog-whistle is, I'm asking why you think you know OP is
referring to "anti-racist efforts".

> This sort of cherry picking..

What are you referring to as "this"? my comments? I don't see the words you
quoted (""just asking some questions").

------
swiley
We might have been ok if the people at the bottom were able to pay rent, no
one cared about how unaffordable housing was getting except them and now we’re
all in trouble.

~~~
cactus2093
It is very weird that nobody cares. I work a decent tech job in the Bay Area
so I’m nowhere near the bottom, but housing costs are a massive barrier in my
life. I can pay my rent, but ever buying a home to start a family feels like
an impossibility.

But no one really seems to care. It’s completely fixable, but even most people
I know don’t really care about it or connect that it’s the politicians making
shitty zoning and local control laws that drives up the prices so high. Or
they buy into the virtue signaling propaganda about affordable housing for
those at the very bottom being the only thing we should care about, even
though they and everyone they know live in market rate housing and are
struggling with the cost.

------
EarthIsHome
I think we've always been living with uncertainty. It's just this particular
virus has exasperated the feeling.

It's the reason why you're seeing people hoard things from stores: they're
worried about being without.

This feeling of uncertainty is a result of the system we live in where, at
least in the US, there's barely any safety net.

The vast majority of the population lives precariously, and it's not by
choice.

~~~
duncans
"exasperated" -> "exacerbated"?

------
blueadept111
As of this morning, Youtube (ie the default 'recommended' feed) seems to have
been scrubbed of all negative coronavirus vids and all negative stock market
vids, except for mainstream news videos.

The truth is now officially anyone's guess.

~~~
danlugo92
Any link to those scrubbed videos?

