

Ask HN: Mac users, do you get AppleCare for your Macs? - chris24

If so, do you find that it's usually worth it or is it just peace of mind?
======
zacharypinter
No.

My thoughts are warranties/insurance are the following:

* If having to repurchase/cover the item would seriously hurt my financials, then I buy it (car insurance, rental insurance, etc are good examples).

* For everything else, I skip it.

I figure that by self-insuring, I come out ahead in the end. Sure, there's
always some gadgets that fail past the end date of the manufacturers warranty.
However, replacing those items tends to cost less than buying warranties for
everything. Besides, if they fail past the manufacturer's warranty, there's
usually some improved version of it I've been eying anyways.

~~~
gte910h
I agree with you on all other warranties. I've seen Applecare, especially for
students, turn out very well though.

~~~
zacharypinter
Warranties seem to have a lot of parallels with gambling. People love to tell
the stories about how they bought a $2000 television and the warranty saved
them when it broke 1 year later. However, they rarely mention all the
warranties they purchased and never used.

That said, warranties are not always bad. In the specific case of students, I
suspect the answer to "If having to repurchase/cover the item would seriously
hurt my financials" is different for their situation than it is for mine. As
such, it might make perfect sense for them to buy the warranty.

~~~
jeremymcanally
Maybe I'm cynical, but paying $80 for 3 years of coverage is a no-brainer for
me.

I mean, heck, my battery died after 2 years of usage and they replaced it for
free. As a result, I've already "made" $20 off of it, and that's without any
major repairs (which I've _definitely_ had them do under AppleCare before).

Of course, my machine and maybe my TV ($50 for 3 years) are the only
warranties I've purchased. I think I agree with your philosophy, but I don't
think that's ever stopped me from buying a warranty on nearly anything.

~~~
elai
Applecare is like 250/300 is this a third party insurance?

------
orangecat
No. Assuming the seller isn't stupid, insurance has a negative expected value.
You should still buy it if the loss you're protecting against would
catastrophic, which is the case for health and homeowner's insurance, and is
absolutely not the case for a Mac.

I've owned around 10 Macs in the last 15 years. Foregoing AppleCare has
"saved" me over $2000, and the damage that would have been covered had I
bought it is less than $500.

~~~
pinko
I mostly agree, but would say, "Assuming the seller isn't stupid _or you have
information they do not_...", which is sometimes the case. E.g., you know
you'll be subjecting the device to conditions that contribute to failure but
don't void the warranty.

For example, I recently bought a comprehensive SquareTrade warranty for my
Roomba because they priced it as a "vacuum cleaner", when in fact I know that
the Roomba (a) an immature technology compared to most vacuums and (b) more
likely to fall or be knocked down the stairs. I did the math and decided the
odds of this thing dying or being killed in the first three years were greater
than the warranty/purchase price ratio.

------
bphogan
I'm not making this up. Intern of mine spilled 32oz of soda on his mbp. He
dumped as much out of his keyboard as he could but it wouldn't come back on
the next day. You're not hiding that from Apple. His machine was on year 3 and
had a few screen issues too. He figured he'd send it in under applecare and
see what they said.

They fixed it. Replaced the keyboard, replaced the screen, replaced the
trackpad. No questions asked and he had it back in less than a week.

I buy AppleCare because of that.

~~~
tumult
Someone spilled wine on my 4-month-old, AppleCare-covered MacBook while it was
being used for a live show. It stayed alive to the end of the show, then
immediately died. Apple charged me $800 to have it fixed. I had to have it
repaired twice again after that (both of those were free, since the previous
two repairs had been wrong.) During and after that, the battery failed and
needed replacement four times. The last time, the Apple Genius told me that
batteries are not covered after the first year, so I would have to pay for it
myself. He looked at the repair history on the laptop and had sympathy, and
replaced it for free.

To this day, the laptop does not work correctly, even though every individual
component has been replaced at least once. Also, they made a typo when setting
the serial number on the motherboard, which I had to tell Apple each time I
had it serviced, since it didn't match the one on my AppleCare plan (replaced
a B with an 8.)

Of course, the laptop had been working fine until a drunk hipster dumped box
wine all over it. I wish the repairs had been perfect and free, but they
weren't. I've gone through a lot of Apple products over the years, and this is
the only one where I've had problems. All of the ones before and after have
been fine, and this one had been fine until the wine.

Anyway, this is just an anecdote. Don't expect your own fuckups to be covered
under AppleCare. It's an extended warranty, _not_ insurance. If the parent is
telling the truth, then he's an exception, not the rule.

~~~
bphogan
I figured that my story was the exception. But I just went in to get a new
ipad replaced due to a bad rotation switch and I watched as they replaced a
macbook that had water on it (they tested it and said they could tell) and
they also replaced a little girl's ipod that she dropped in the bathtub.

I think it largely depends on who handles the call. I agree that it's not an
insurance policy. I was just sharing my experience. I know from past
experience that with my bad luck, they would never replace my macbook if I
dumped stuff all over it :)

------
ugh
Yes. I buy AppleCare on eBay (at the moment 130€ vs. 350€ from Apple for a
MacBook Pro). It’s not a scam, it worked twice for me already.

I probably wouldn’t buy it for Apple’s price, but considering my screen was
replaced twice, my mainboard once, my battery three times and my keyboard once
it would have been worth it even for 350€.

(Would be nice if someone could explain how those eBay sellers can sell
AppleCare so cheaply. Buying it in the US would bring down the price only to a
bit more than 260€. Even if they manage to get a educational discount the
price only goes down to 180€.)

~~~
chris24
Thanks for the awesome suggestion. At that price, AppleCare seems like a no
brainer.

------
sant0sk1
Most people don't realize that you can buy AppleCare any time during the first
year of ownership. I always wait until the 1-year standard warranty is about
to expire before deciding. At that point you have a better idea if the machine
is prone to having problems or not.

Also, you can gauge how your hardware is holding up against new technologies
that have popped up since you bought it. Perhaps you want to ensure the
machine lasts at least 2 more years... perhaps you have your eye on something
a little shinier.

------
jakemcgraw
Absolutely, here's my story: Macbook always had some minor overheating issues,
it would act erratically or shutdown, I think this only happened two or three
times in three years. I took it in to the Apple Store once, they returned it
two days later and said there were no issues. Flash forward to a week after
the Apple Care Warranty expires, full on overheating issues, keyboard stopped
working, Finder was running incredibly slow, to the point where all the
animations where in slowmo. I bring the laptop in, even though the warranty
was over a week expired and Apple was legally in the clear to charge me ~$800
for replacement, they replace the entire innards of the laptop and overnight
it back to my apt the next day. I have never been more impressed with customer
service like that before.

------
stretchwithme
absolutely. And it has paid off royally. I've gotten my power plug thingy
replaced twice and my hard drive replaced once and they also replaced the
cracked keyboard surround thingy. Not a bad return for $250.

Personally, the peace of mind that things will be handled when something goes
wrong is worth the extra $50 for two additional years. Thats just $2.50 a
week, even if nothing were fixed.

When they fixed my hard drive, they installed the OS and I restored my data
from time machine and I was back in business.

Figure out what your time is worth after taxes and then figure out how much
time you would spend just trying to assess what the best course is to handle a
problem. That cost is gone when you can just hand it to Apple and they return
it to you whole.

~~~
stretchwithme
mine has a problem with a plug that costs $80 to replace. and it happened
twice and may even happen once more before apple care expires in 2 months

~~~
chaosmachine
The mag-safe connector? Mine is going bad. Intermittent LED, and the cord is
starting to fray at the connector. I had to tape it up.

Seems like a bad design. I notice they use a completely different mag-safe
connector on the 24" cinema display and on the macbook air.

bad: <http://imgur.com/TmRbu.jpg>

good: <http://imgur.com/9ciyo.jpg>

~~~
stretchwithme
yep. $80 each. a known problem, they said.

yeah, that new design looks a lot more robust

~~~
masterj
There's a newer design that they're using on the new laptops, similar to (but
sleeker than) the air adapter pictured above.

<http://www.notebookcheck.net/typo3temp/pics/d4598c4081.jpg>

~~~
stretchwithme
awesome, thanks.

------
prospero
You can get completely valid warranties for half price on eBay, which makes it
a pretty unambiguously good idea, in my opinion.

------
gte910h
It's the only warranty program I think is worth anything.

------
arihant
Yes. Got fan replaced twice, battery once, keyboard components once because of
weird sound. Also, I check it in every month for general cleaning and service.

Fan, keyboard and logic board failures are very common with Macs. Just google
and see. I'd suggest you get AppleCare. But don't buy it at the time of
purchase, you can wait 11 months and buy, sometimes you might end up changing
the machine in less than a year, then AppleCare would be worthless.

~~~
ericd
Still doesn't necessarily make sense economically... most of those things are
a cinch to replace yourself with a $10 electronics screwdriver set from
Radioshack.

From iFixit.com, my model MBP: Fan - $50 Battery - $100. Keyboard - $85.

The logic board is probably a bit trickier, but I don't know how common those
failures are (a Google search on any mass market device will show a lot of
failures... .1% of a million is still 1000.)

For comparison, AppleCare on a MBP is currently $350, and covers an extra 2
years on the end of your complimentary 1 year.

EDIT: Looking at the absurd prices for replacement parts for a newer Unibody
17" (motherboard - $1000), I think it definitely makes sense there, unless
you're the type to replace often.

~~~
arihant
Those replacements would be around $315 compared to $249 I paid for it. Also,
more things can break. It also saved time.

If one has to do dollar-to-dollar comparison for $10/mo service, they aren't
ready to buy a $1200 laptop.

Just because I can rip apart my laptop and can reapair it myself doesn't mean
I shouldn't buy service which cover failure of it's components. That's like
saying a doctor shouldn't buy medical insurance for his family.

~~~
ericd
Eh? $250 is a 20% premium on 1200. $10-15 per month is not insignificant for a
service you are likely not to need.

Also, I was stating a case where 3 parts go bad on the laptop, which I think
is pretty pessimistic - I've only had a fan go on my MBP, and that was under
exceptional circumstances (my apartment was filled with very fine abrasive
stone dust). It paid off for you, but as with all insurance plans, the odds
were against it paying off for you, unless you are much riskier to insure than
average.

Furthermore, I don't believe normal battery wear and tear is covered under
applecare.

~~~
arihant
You're right. In my case, my battery was defective, it just blanked out one
fine morning. :)

But I'd still press that some replacements for MacBooks are really out of
proportion in terms of cost and one might regret not getting it. Namely - the
logic board failures.

------
tptacek
We're an all Mac shop, and we buy roughly one machine every month of the year.
We skip AppleCare.

However, several years ago, before Matasano, we bought Erin a G3 iBook which
went on the fritz, and AppleCare got her machine not only replaced, but
replaced with a G4. So, I've had good experiences with it.

------
jim_dot
No. Laptops are replaced every 18-24 months. AppleCare and any other warranty
for laptops is completely worthless. When I went to buy my current MacBook the
salesman actually refused to sell me one after I told him I wasn't going to
buy the warranty since I'd just be replacing it again next year.

------
johnswamps
I've never gotten it and haven't needed it, but I'm the type to not buy any
insurance if I can help it.

------
kyro
Usually, I don't. But my brother a year ago purchased a MacBook Pro, and,
thanks to a somewhat paranoid mother, was pushed to purchase AppleCare. A year
later, we were typing away at some cafe, and his screen turned white and the
machine let out a long constant beep. We tried restarting, clearing various
types of RAMs, etc, nothing worked. We took it in to the Apple store and they
told us something had randomly given out, and that it could've been some sort
of manufacturer's defect. The repair costs would've have added up to something
around $800, but because of AppleCare, there was no charge. It was definitely
worth it in that case.

Edit: Reading arihant's comment, I now remember that it was his logic board
that gave out.

~~~
Psyonic
I was going to guess it was the logic board. The 2007/2008 MBP's are notorious
for that. Same thing happened to me and my friend, but we both had to pay $330
to get it fixed.

------
fmw
No, I haven't because I don't like to pay a premium for something that should
come with the product. In the EU, in my case the Netherlands, anyone who sells
a product is responsible for its reliability during the time a customer can
reasonably expect it to work. When it breaks after more than two years I will
have replaced it anyway.

In my case they have covered the repair of an iMac that broke a few months
after their 'warranty' of one year expired. One of my interns, however, was
refused support in a similar situation with a faulty PowerBook screen. His
uncle, a lawyer, wrote some angry letters to Apple on his behalf, but if I
remember correctly they decided that it wasn't worth the costs of going to
court.

------
ten7
Yes, totally get the AppleCare -- I've had to replace a main board in a
PowerBook one too many times, and the total cost (without Applecare) would
have been more than just buying a new one.

You should also get yourself an AmEx card and buy the hardware on it -- it
extends the manufacturer's warranty (whether you get the AppleCare or not) by
1 year, i.e. with AppleCare you get 4 yrs total, without it you get 2 yrs
total. And it doesn't cost anything extra. (Here'a a post I wrote about it a
while ago: [http://ten7i.com/content/how-buy-mac-pro-right-way-and-
save-...](http://ten7i.com/content/how-buy-mac-pro-right-way-and-save-money))

~~~
ten7
One more thing, don't buy the AppleCare from Apple: there is actually a
company in CA that sells the real deal AppleCare for less than Apple does by
miles. See here: [http://www.lacomputercompany.com/cgi-
bin/rpcart/featured.cgi...](http://www.lacomputercompany.com/cgi-
bin/rpcart/featured.cgi?group=appcare) (they are an actual company that I've
bought all my AppleCare from and it works)

You can also have the person in the Apple Store match the AppleCare price that
they have if you're sceptical: I've done that without a problem as well.

------
brk
I do, yes. I have used it a couple of times, it's worth it (to me) to have the
simple peace of mind.

~~~
stcredzero
I used to be one of those who didn't. Now it is my policy to get AppleCare and
a case for everything I buy from Apple. Why? Because items from Apple
protected with a case and still under warranty have _much_ higher resale
value.

~~~
ericd
Ditto on the case. I once tried to sell a Powerbook G4 that had a big dent on
one of the corners, when the going rate on Craigslist was ~$500. I couldn't
find a buyer for more than 300.

The MBP that replaced it has lived its entire life in a case.

------
andrewljohnson
The motherboard on my MacBook just fried. I don't have AppleCare, but Apple
fixed it for free, well outside of any warranty.

------
jfoutz
10% is my limit for any warranty.

If you're worried it'll die, and you won't be able to afford to replace it,
scale back. you can add ram later, you can improve the hd later.

I think you'll get more peace of mind by doing some math. Computers are the
tools i use for work, so i tend to buy new ones fairly frequently. The odds of
me using any given computer for more that 2 years are pretty low. So, how much
of a hardship would it be to replace that earlier?

If it's really a budget stretch, you might think about moving to the cheaper
end of the spectrum. What if it gets stolen? applecare is no help.

Also, the first 30 days come with applecare. Usually if hardware is going to
die, it'll die quick. Flexing the motherboard for years will kill a laptop
eventually, but meh.

------
jexe
Yes. My macbook is the single most important device that I need to do my job.
It goes pretty much everywhere I go, and I will use it every day until its
untimely demise / upgrade.

It's worth paying a little extra to help ensure my source of income doesn't go
up in smoke (literally?).

------
andrewtj
All my Mac laptops have been covered for 3 years under a different agreement
so I've never purchased AppleCare for them. I won't have this option with my
next machine so I will be purchasing AppleCare — why? My Apple laptop history
is as follows:

* replacement logic board on a 15" PowerBook

* replacement top-housing and fan on a black MacBook

* replacement logic board on a 15" MacBook Pro

2 of the above cropped up after the initial warranty period and would no doubt
have cost more than AppleCare. If it's a laptop and you intend to keep it well
beyond a year, in my experience AppleCare is worth considering.

EDIT: Also had a power brick replaced on the 15" MacBook Pro due to a frayed
cord outside warranty period.

------
s_m
I got AppleCare on my 1st-gen MacBook Pro for peace of mind. Although I
haven't really needed it since I bought it, I don't regret buying it: I didn't
have a lot of money at the time, and if something had happened to the MBP I
couldn't have afforded to replace it.

------
acl
AppleCare is the only kind of extended warranty I have ever bought. I'm glad I
did -- my Macbook Pro needed multiple repairs within the last few years,
including logic board replacement. I'll buy AppleCare again for my upcoming
MBP update.

~~~
stretchwithme
have never bought any other warrantee either. but had a bad experience with my
last pc laptop that could have been a black hole of wasted time and money if
I'd decided to fix it.

Not to mention the lost time. If you enjoy tinkering, though, I guess you
might just handle the problem yourself.

------
stevenbedrick
I've gotten it for my last two laptops. It's a little spendy, but I find the
peace of mind more than worth it, particularly after my partner's experience
with her iBook some years back. That particular model had some notorious
hardware problems, which in her case didn't pop up until her laptop was (just
barely) out of warranty. She ended up needing to use her AppleCare several
times before everything was finally resolved. If she hadn't had it, it would
have ended up being quite expensive. Apple's QA has improved quite a bit since
then, but still...

------
samratjp
As a rule of thumb, you are better off buying your Mac with a credit card that
extends warranty by a year such as American Express. I've had a smooth
experience dealing an expired warranty repair with my macbook - all I had to
do was get an estimate from Apple, then fax it to my cc company. I received
the money in no time.

This should be good enough for 2 years (1 Apple + 1 cc company). That's all
you need anyways.

As about other stuff like tv, get third party warranty.

------
dsspence
I've had the Mac Genius replace my first generation Intel Macbook Pro battery
for free, 3 years later without Applecare. However, I also have this video
problem that could have been solved had I purchased Applecare:
[http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1697470...](http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1697470&start=0&tstart=0)

------
brettnak
I did buy it for mine. I am curious about the plan though. Lately, the
temperature of my mbp has been going higher than I'm used to and I'd like to
get it cleaned. Does anyone know if apple care covers that? Normally I'd do it
myself but since I have the first gen of the non-replaceable battery, I don't
know if the the warrantee terms will allow it.

------
aditya
For RevA products: yes. Everything else, no.

RevA Apple products are guaranteed to die right after year 1, in my (limited
&& anecdotal) experience. I had to take in my Rev A Macbook when they just
switched to intel 5 times, got the bezel & mother board replaced. So, if
you're getting an iPad now or new gen macbooks, then yes.

------
DenisM
Repair rate is ~17% over three years. MacBookPro cost is $2000. Apple Care is
$350. Simple math: statistically you're better off replacing entire laptop
each time something goes wrong and selling the old one for parts.

The only exception is if you got cashflow problems, then yes you have to pay
extra for being poor.

------
_pius
I got it for my iMac. I like the fact that they'll come here and repair the
machine on-site if necessary.

------
covercash
Yes. Bonus points for increasing its resale value when I buy a new laptop
18-24 months later.

If you still have your student ID, bring it along and get the educational
discount on the Apple Care. 15" MBP Apple Care for $239 instead of $349 retail
price.

------
tortilla
Have had 3 Macs, all laptops, and never bought the warranty. Had one laptop
need in warranty service, but all mostly trouble-free.

Also if you buy with your American Express card, they cover up to an
additional year of your original warranty.

------
evo_9
I have not, but that's probably because I tend to buy mac's used since I'm
near a university and the prices are just too enticing. Plus, I suspect like
most other HN readers, I don't mind doing repairs myself if need be.

------
bcl
For my MacBook, yes. For my Mini, no.

My rationale is that laptops are more fragile than desktops so the extra
protection is worth the expense. Its been 2 years now and I haven't needed it
yet though :/

------
tjr
No, never have. I've been blessed to not have had any major weird issues with
my machines, and by the time they start getting a little iffy, that's about
the time I am looking to buy a new one anyway.

------
iamclovin
Especially useful for laptops, I've had mine fail after the first-year
warranty period.

But afaik, you can purchase AppleCare anytime within the first year (and not
just at the time of purchase).

------
ikitat
No, but I regret it after having my top cover replaced to resolve a dead
trackpad. I never buy extended warranties, I'm probably ahead nonetheless.

------
ljegou
I got apple care for my macbook air (1st gen) and it was nearly worth it when
the power transformer broke. I bough apple care for my laptops.

------
deanj
Yep. Had a motherboard go wonky on a Mac Pro, and got it fixed for no
additional charge, because I bought AppleCare. I'd do so again.

------
dangrover
For laptops, always. It's a certainty that something that would otherwise cost
> $300 to repair will break in three years.

~~~
foldr
Come on, if it was really as certain as all that, Apple would be making a loss
on AppleCare. (I guess it's possible that they are running it at a loss, but
it seems unlikely.)

------
cooldude127
It's been a godsend for me. AppleCare is great support, and has absolutely
paid off for me in the past.

------
lleger
Absolutely — AppleCare has paid for itself multiple times over every time I've
purchased it.

