
H-1B Models Strut Into U.S. as Programmers Pray for Help - hkmurakami
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-20/h-1b-models-strut-into-u-s-as-programmers-pray-for-help.html
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geoka9
What has been baffling me for some time is that the US doesn't seem to have a
visa for professionals doing short-term work for their clients in the US. For
example, as a freelance programmer I have clients in the US and sometimes they
may want me to pay a visit. I have to turn such requests down since I won't be
able to bill them for my time while in the US.

There only seem to be 2 kinds of visas: B1 (business) which does not allow you
to bill anybody in the US, and H1B which is an overkill for 1-2 days on-site
visits (not to mention that this visa usually implies moving to the US to take
a full-time position with a company there).

But there must be some kind of provision for consultants doing short-term work
in the US; it's such a common practice all over the world. Am I missing
something?

~~~
pbiggar
Everybody else is using Bwaivers. You're not doing short-term work for your
clients, you're working for your company in your home country, and visiting
clients.

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carbocation
Numerically, these are not comparable.

> There were 478 initial applications made for fashion models in 2010 ... U.S.
> ... approved 250 ...

> 325,000 H-1B petitions were filed for computer-related occupations ... about
> 90,800 visas were distributed to foreign information-technology workers

It is equally true that 90,000 more people were renewed or accepted for the
first time for computer work vs for fashion modeling.

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keerthiko
This article is extremely poorly written. While the conversations around visas
(specifically H1Bs) are especially relevant to the HN community, the
conversation this article is trying to spark is rote and shortsighted:
"Percentage-wise, fashion models get more H1B visas than elite programmer
grads." Why should a programmer feel any more entitled to a work visa than a
fashion model? There's so many important aspects of the way this country
handles immigration worth inspiring conversation about.

A visa lottery? That gets triggered on April Fools' no less. A person who has
spent 6 years in America studying, working, starting a company, and
contributing to the economy has the same chances as a phantom non-existent
consulting seat in a large outsourcing firm.

 _A mildly miffed H1B lottery non-winner who has to leave the country in 6
months_

~~~
zerr
That is frustrating. Don't you have an option for other types of visa, as a
workaround until next H1B lottery?

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ck2
Every time I see an article like this, I try harder to appreciate this country
more, despite all my disappointments.

So many people want to come here, even those that could most easily work
virtually from elsewhere. And what do you get for your efforts except to get
sub-standard wages and treated very badly as "foreigners" in our ever growing
xenophobia.

Best wishes and good luck, sorry it has to been under such strange pretenses
and politics.

~~~
Kurtz79
US wages for software engineers, even sub-standard ones (wages, not
engineers!), are still more, and in many cases much more, than most countries
in the world.

I was making more as an intern in the US, that now as an experienced engineeer
in southern Europe, and that not considering income taxes (much lower in the
US).

~~~
ck2
But doesn't everything cost more here too, which offsets it?

Is income the primary/only motivation?

~~~
jedmeyers
No, it does not cost more. Things you use every day like cars, fuel, clothing,
etc usually cost considerably less in the US than in other countries.

And you might be surprised, but in the US "foreigners" are usually treated
much better compared to other countries where immigration is not as common,
like Germany or UK.

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lesterbuck
I want to start a job shop that hires only fashion-model beautiful
programmers. They should breeze through the H1-B process...

Russia, Brazil, Colombia? Anyone? Anyone?

~~~
hkmurakami
Don't forget the Scandanavian countries!

~~~
nanidin
Or Romania!

The company I used to work at bought a German company that had an office in
Romania. When they came and did a QA with the company in the US, they listed a
good M:F ratio as one of the upsides of working in the Romanian office.

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onemorepassword
I fail to understand why the US even has quota on desirable migrant workers
with a solid job offer.

One the one hand the US still does this "we're an immigrant nation" dog and
pony show with shit like the green card lottery, on the other hand, if you're
educated, qualified _and_ have the guarantee of a full-time well paid job,
it's harder to get into the US than most European countries.

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fredsanford
Of course, Bloomberg is interested in this as it effects his importation of
H1B wage slaves.

~~~
cmadan
As an ex-Bloomberg software developer who was on a H1B, I couldn't agree more.
What option do you have but be a wage slave when they pay much, much more than
what the tech giants such as Microsoft, Google and Amazon pay?

~~~
randuser123
Did you mean you couldn't "disagree" more with the parent comment? Sorry it is
a little unclear to me, but are you saying that Bloomberg pays "much much
more" or much less compared to Google/Amazon? Thanks.

~~~
KaoruAoiShiho
I believe it's sarcasm bro.

~~~
cmadan
Yes, I meant as in a 'they pay so well that you're going to be a slave to your
wages' sense. :)

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dotcoma
And so? What makes you think you are inherently better than a Fashion model?

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fatjokes
I don't think it has anything to do with better/worse. It's just silly to
group fashion models into the same category as tech workers. They are more
similar to performers/athletes.

~~~
dotcoma
Agreed.

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fatjokes
I think this article is horribly written. I get that the main point is to
point out the absurdity of grouping fashion models with tech workers under a
single visa class, but the whole prayer thing is really stretching it.

There's also this quote that comes from nowhere: '“As a single man, would you
prefer to look at a beautiful woman or a high-tech worker?” he asked.' I still
don't understand the context.

~~~
opinali
The "whole prayer thing" was the most amusing to me; maybe because I'm a
stereotypical atheist hacker, but I fail to understand that people in high-
tech fields such as computer science can be sufficiently credulous (of any
religion) to... pray to some deity for a visa. This isn't just a mostly-
cultural religiosity or spiritual veneer; it's full "long-beard guy in the sky
listening and answering to personal wishes" kind of belief...

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wildgift
Is there _any_ political movement trying to convert H1Bs into green cards?
Expanding temporary guest workers harms local workers, by creating a two-class
workforce. Giving them green cards, while still causing a decline in wages, at
least keeps their status equal, so there's less of a decline.

I guess the models should stay too.

~~~
saffer
Due to a combination of long processing times for green cards, and the legal
notion of "immigrant intent", H1-B is commonly used as a bridge to a green
card.

Any US visa which isn't a green card (e.g. tourist visas, student visas) is
considered a non-immigrant visa. You can only apply for, and enter on a non-
immigrant visa if you don't have immigrant intent. If an international
student, for example, applies for a green card, this shows immigrant intent
and they could find it difficult to renew their student visa or even to re-
enter the US after traveling.

Obviously this wouldn't be a problem if the green card itself were quickly
approved, but the process is bureaucratic and can take years even for people
with advanced degrees.

H1-B visas, on the other hand are one of the few visa classes that allow "dual
intent", meaning that while they're non-immigrant visas, H1-B holders are also
allowed immigrant intent. Which makes it a good visa to have before starting
the green card process, if you want to be able to travel (e.g. to visit
family) while your application is pending.

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nicholassmith
This is a weird old article. Yes, fashion models are getting through on a
higher percentage rate than programmers, but there's significantly fewer. Even
then, that's weirdly sloppy statistical faff to sell a point.

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pbiggar
They're suggesting that fashion models get twice as many as devs. I'm not 100%
sure, but I believe this is a misunderstanding in how the applications work.

The process is that you apply, and then you get it or you don't. If they run
out the same week you applied in, then you get put in a lottery. There's no
person or process saying the fashion models are more important or get 2x as
many visas as devs.

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snambi
wow. this is interesting.

