
Ask HN: Why don't homeless people from SF move to another city? - Keloo
I&#x27;m not from US and I am not very aware of what&#x27;s going on in San Francisco.<p>But I&#x27;ve been wondering why homeless people from SF don&#x27;t move to another city where with a regular job they can afford a normal life.<p>At least this is what I would consider in their situation.<p>Sorry if the question is stupid.
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jason_slack
I volunteer at a homeless shelter for the last 10 years.

* people can be mentally ill in some way or another.

* physical disabilities.

* just acceptance that this is their fate, why change it.

* they just can't see any plan that leads them out of the situation so why try

* they wouldn't be sure how to function in society if they re-enter as a member of the "working class".

As a country, I don't feel we do anywhere enough for not just the homeless,
but those that are simply down on their luck. Some people just need guidance
and advice.

Example: I am a foster parent of 2.

The birth parents don't know how to cook, pay bills, take care of babies, etc.
But do classes exist that make them practice and practice and practice. No.
I've tried to get cooking classes like this offered saying I'll pay for all
the food and donate my time but nobody takes me up on it. If we can teach who
are inexperienced at cooking and house keeping and personal hygiene they may
stand a chance of improving their lives by believing in themselves. What a
bootstrap.

Maybe my perception is wrong and education doesn't help either. I feel like it
would.

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blacksmith_tb
Sadly we've been eliminating Home Ec, Woodworking, and Shop classes in high
schools for the last 40 years, which would have been another route for people
to learn some of those life skills if they didn't (or couldn't) from their
parents. I agree it's hard to know if people would respond to 'remedial'
classes on the basics, but it does seem like it might at least make them feel
like someone cared.

~~~
jason_slack
I graduated high school in _cough_ the mid-nineties and I had to take Home Ec,
Woodworking and Shop.

My oldest son graduated in 2015 and had to take Home Ec only.

My daughter will graduate in 2021 but only had to take Home Ec.

My youngest son also graduates in 2021 and hasn't had to take any.

~~~
rocketpastsix
I graduated from high school in 2001. There was no shop class offered. There
was home ec, but that was an elective and not required. I really wish there
had been things like this required.

~~~
sli
Graduated high school in 2003. No home ec available, no shop available, and
they got rid of their computer programming classes after my freshman year. The
only option anywhere close to these lines was Ag. I didn't live in a farming
town.

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kstenerud
1\. The weather in San Francisco is nice (so you won't freeze to death).

2\. The laws are friendlier towards homeless people.

3\. San Francisco is liberal, so the people will be friendlier on average to
the homeless.

4\. America's public transport systems are terrible, but you can go quite a
distance on BART and the city buses and it's easy enough to ride for free.

5\. If you're stuck begging in order to live, better to beg from rich people.

If you're homeless in America, it doesn't get much better than this.

~~~
armitron
Most importantly, you forgot the wide availability of hard drugs.

Downtown SF is an open drug bazaar, probably the biggest in the USA if not the
world. Police do not go after the sellers and the city has for years
maintained and enabled this nonsensical anything-goes policy.

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vondur
Well, you can put this same question to most of the larger cities on the West
Coast, and the answers are pretty similar: 1) Decent weather: Most west coast
cities have fairly mild weather, so you most likely wont freeze to death. 2)
Lack of law enforcement: Most cities on the West Coast have taken a hands off
approach to most of the homeless, so no need to worry about getting arrested.
3) Drugs: I'm gonna guess it's easy to get drugs here, being closer to Mexico
where a lot of it comes from. 4) Sent there: A lot of other states/cities have
been putting their homeless on buses to these areas with one way tickets. They
are told either go to jail there, or go to $west_coast_city and not jail.

~~~
abbracadabbra
It would be helpful to share evidence on assertion #4, it is a claim that
often appears but usually without proof.

~~~
1123581321
This Guardian article is a good summary and starting point to look up stories
about the cities featured. [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-
interactive/2017/dec/...](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-
interactive/2017/dec/20/bussed-out-america-moves-homeless-people-country-
study)

You’re right it’s not as well publicized as it should be.

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linksnapzz
Not a stupid question.

The problem is that a lack of money is but a proximate, and not the ultimate,
cause of the homelessness. For something like 85% of those on the streets of
SF, the issue is mental or physical disabilities (I'm gonna be generous and
classify a penchant for antisocial behavior as a 'mental disability') or
substance problems that directly impact the ability to have a job and a
dwelling or any sort of normal life.

If you are in that position, finding a warm-ish place with a well-developed
support infrastructure for vagrancy as well as proximity to a wealthy
population for panhandling from is a really good deal.

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fcurts
When you are broke, live on the street (which is a very tough life everywhere
in the world), and possibly fight with mental illness or addiction, moving to
a more affordable place (which will still be unaffordable for you, esp. in
California) won't magically solve your problems. Without the right support, it
will be difficult to find your way back to a normal life.

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stevesearer
From a family member of mine who is heavily involved with the homeless
community in his city, some activities of life are made up of 5-10 separate
steps, any of which may take days or weeks to complete.

The first problem in the OP's question would be just having the funds to go to
another city.

Once you arrive and are looking for a job, you will need a permanent
address/place to stay and probably a bank account of some sort. In order to
get those things you likely need proper identification and/or work history.

Some forms of identification might require additional documentation like
social security card or birth certificate. If you don't have those you will
need to make multiple trips to various offices to acquire them and they often
have fees associated with them.

But don't forget that if you were born in another state and need a birth
certificate you have to work with that state over the phone to acquire them.

Plus where will they send them when you may not have a mailing address.

Completing the entire list of items with no problems is time consuming,
difficult, and if any of them fail the entire process grinds to a halt.

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the_hoser
It's got nothing to do with the possibility of getting a job and affording a
normal life. Most homeless people just want to be left alone. Mild weather and
lower rates of confrontation make cities like SF ideal.

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jrowley
Another reason many unhoused people don’t want to move is that they have some
family, friends, or existing support systems in the area. Moving away would
mean they no longer have these resources.

Would you want to move away from your friends and family when you have little
else? Some food for thought.

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udayrddy
Not a stupid question to think on. You should consider offering a burger or a
coffee to a homeless and ask them this question - you'll hear a more realistic
answer.

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DoreenMichele
In addition to other pertinent points being made here:

1\. People who have lived someplace a long time and love that place may not
want to leave. They may want to try to resolve their problems where they are.

2\. Once you are homeless, relocating can be extremely challenging. You may
not have the money to pay for bus or train tickets, you may have no means to
line up a job elsewhere first, etc.

3\. Big cities are where the services are. If you are completely destitute,
being in a big city can help you stay fed and clothed.

So it only makes sense to leave the big city if you have some unearned income
that will go further if you live someplace cheaper. If you are unemployed and
destitute with no prospects, the big is a better answer than a small town
because you can at least get a free meal regularly.

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NTDF9
A few reasons:

1\. Weather in most northern states will cause death

2\. Transportation for poor doesn't exist in the US

3\. If one can't find jobs in SF, forget about being able to find them in
Tulsa. Reasons vary from number of employers, lack of transportation, lack of
education, felony record, divorces/child support.

I think the easiest way for someone to imagine this would be to think os the
US as a dense jungle. The bounty is plentiful but there are death traps
everywhere. Only the death traps are man made.

You need to find the patch of this jungle where you are likely to survive.
Which means living under a rock in region A is better than dying in a barren
desert in region B.

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dv_dt
You can dig up periodic articles where many cities have a policy of shipping
homeless people out of their city to others where there are "more" services -
and ignoring there are more services often because there are more homeless. I
have a feeling the California cities are more often the destination of such
policies than the originators. (Though I know LA for example does allocate
budget to rounding up homeless and moving them around the city too).

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jeffrom
A lot of homeless I’ve spoken to in sf are from sf or have lived there a long
time before being priced out of their home, and don’t have family or friends
who can help them, or just don’t want to leave the only place they know well.

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plurple
There are a lot of reasons. Moving can be expensive, and they probably have no
idea what they’d be moving into. I also knew one homeless person who stuck to
a major city because he knew he’d have continued access to money, food and
drugs in good weather. I don’t blame him for that decision because he didn’t
have a lot of other options due to mental illness.

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cascom
I think the premise of your question is wrong - you assume that homeless in SF
would prefer to be or not be homeless in another city, I would actually ask
the question as “what makes SF so appealing as a homeless person” or “what is
it about San Francisco that creates/allows so many homeless people”

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Theophraustous
Many homeless are that way due to situations in their life beyond their
control. Mental illness, physical disabilities, age, ect. Most people that do
not have these problems could fairly easily get an entry level job and scrape
by until they can get back on their feet.

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gfs78
Most are too sick/debilitated to move around searching for better places to
live. And in the move they risk losing all (including their lives), because
living on the streets is a real risky bet.

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konschubert
I think most of them have fallen so low already that they are unable to pull
themselves up any more.

The solution, of course, would be to not let people fall that low. Provide
them with some minimal housing and food BEFORE they become drug addicts.

But hey, apparently that’s a waste of money and for communists.

