
Welcome, Freshmen. You Don't Deserve to Be Here - onedev
http://chronicle.com/article/Welcome-Freshmen-You-Do-Not/142285/
======
WA
Dear Americans,

let me tell you something. The good and cheerful atmosphere at freshman
speeches is something you should be proud of. It gives people spirit and a
wonderful first experience. The harsh truth will catch up anyways. The speech
in this article, how the OP thought it should be, is utter crap and comes from
a place of total arrogance and serves only himself.

It doesn't act as an eye-opener, because the students won't listen anyways.
They will experience reality soon enough and there's absolutely no need to
tell them anything they can't understand at their current position. They are
mentally not in the state to receive any "truthful speech". They are in a new
chapter of their lives and the only bet is to give it a try. The experience of
others is worth close to nothing, because they need to make experiences
themselves.

Why am I telling you this? Because I'm German. In Germany, there is not even a
freshman speech. What we have can be described as a big "fuck you" from some
dean or whatever arrogant professor feels entitled to speak up. "50% of you
won't be here in 1 year" is something you get told on first day of university.
What is this good for? I haven't seen a single student saying "Oh, this guy's
right, I'll unenroll right now". They HAVE to try first, because that's the
choice they made for this new chapter in life. It might even be true. 50%
unenroll after a while, but it's unclear which 50%.

My girlfriend is becoming a teacher. She studied for 5 years. After university
follows a 1.5 traineeship at school, before she can call herself a real
teacher. They have a welcome speech for the new trainee-teachers and it went
like that:"Welcome, good to see you, but you won't get a job anyways." Again,
a big "fuck you" to all these people who spend 5 years in this system, gave
their best, are motivated and accept a lousy pay for 1.5 years with ridiculous
long hours.

From my limited experience and what people told me who experienced the exact
same crap in Germany, I can see this only as some self-righteous bullshit from
arrogant frustrated people that serves no purpose at all but only to make THEM
feel a tiny little bit better. "I'm here, see, I'm the best." Fuck you!

Be proud that it is a common practice in the US to have motivational speeches
that give people a good feeling. There's nothing in the world you can tell
freshmen to prepare them for reality. The only thing that counts is how you
make them feel in this very moment at the Welcome-freshman-party.

~~~
gambiting
Poland here. It's exactly the same as you described - if there is someone
speaking at the beginning of the year it's mostly in the tone of "We have
accepted 300 students for this course this year. Less than 100 makes it to the
second year and usually less than 20 finish it. That means you have to work
really hard to stay here and you can fail at any moment". This is what is
usually said. Does it help? Of course not. Would it be any better if the
speech was more cheerful? I believe so - most students are going to experience
a reality crash within a first 2 weeks anyway,so a glimmer of hope at the
beginning would not hurt.

~~~
colomon
My parents (in their 70s now) have the same sort of stories about US
universities from their experience -- the one that stuck with me was "Look to
your left. Look to your right. One of the three of you will not make it to
graduation." But it definitely wasn't the case when I went to school circa
1990.

~~~
VLM
Oh? Early 90s EE curricula my experience was more like 50 students came to the
first "ohms law" type class and by the time we were talking about rectifier
topologies (half-wave, full-wave, bridge, etc) we were down to like 10. I
honestly don't know what happened to the other 40 or so.

Even first semester calculus wasn't that high of an attrition rate, maybe only
50%. Something I never really understood about the whole process of attrition
is most of the dropouts happened during the really easy stuff like basic
continuity concept or perhaps definition of basic derivation equation. Then
everyone still present when we talked about the derivative of x squared,
mostly made it thru diffeqs together although the difficulty ramped up sharply
and smoothly over time. Although freshman classes may distribute on some bell
curve, or graduating classes may bell curve, I don't think filter classes have
a distribution anything like a bell, because then I'd expect people to
randomly drop out at a decreasing rate thru the curriculum rather than all at
once in the start.

(edited to add there's probably a startup opportunity to "help" attrition
rates by introducing prospective EEs to ohms law or similar in other fields.
All the ham radio operators (including myself) pretty much slept thru the
early classes with straight As so conceptually an early introduction and
filter in a non-uni setting should be possible in other fields?)

~~~
hfsktr
"...most of the dropouts happened during the really easy stuff..."

Isn't that what you'd expect? If the 'easy' stuff was too hard why bother
continuing once you know you're out of your depth.

~~~
VLM
Ah but difficulty increases, I think diffeqs was much worse than 2nd semester
of calc. Or circuit analysis class was much worse than 2nd month of "ohms law"
class. But the dropping out stopped after the first month of the filter
classes. I'd expect it to smoothly decline as difficulty smoothly increases.

------
dnr
Saying "You all deserve to be here" isn't intended as a pat on the back to the
privileged in the audience, it's a reassurance to the ones on full financial
aid and looking around and feeling out of place among their wealthier
classmates, or the minorities who are worried that they're only there at all
because of affirmative action.

At least that's how I read it.

~~~
jbackus
They say it every year. They very explicitly state that its to combat impostor
syndrome
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome)

~~~
neltnerb
Yeah, this. It's good to help incoming students realize two things.

1\. Half of the class will be below average. Deal with it.

2\. Everyone is capable of doing the work with enough effort.

I had a guy in one of my first year grad classes at MIT who literally passed
out during the first exam from not having slept due to stress for days. Poor
guy. I was already used to failing all the time, but not everyone gets that in
university =/

~~~
hugofirth
Whilst not necessarily relevant to the main thread: I absolutely agree with
you on the point of understanding that you aren't going to be the best at
everything, or even anything, necessarily.

The earlier people have that realisation that its not necessarily about being
the best, so much as it is about trying to be the best, the sooner they
overcome any sense of impostor syndrome.

------
nugget
You don't deserve to be here, but thanks for the $50,000 tuition check we just
cashed . . .

Education, like religion, politics, and almost everything else in America, is
first and foremost a business. Never lose sight of that.

~~~
coffeemug
That's a rather cynical view. Education in America _is_ a business, but it's
so much more than that. Students who are financially disadvantaged get help,
both from the universities and the government. There are plenty of great state
schools where you can get education basically for free. Despite the red tape,
there is plenty of great research getting done, and plenty of professors who
genuinely love to teach and want to help students succeed. For people who
can't quite cut it in serious academic pursuits, there are city schools and
community colleges that give good, inexpensive education and offer financial
aid.

Sometimes it can be useful to look at the world through cynical glasses, but
it shouldn't be _the only_ pair of glasses you use. You might completely miss
a lot of beauty in the world around you.

~~~
Crake
I'm gay, so my parents wouldn't pay or help me in any way. The public colleges
in my state basically told me that if I didn't have the money, I should get
lost and try again when I was 24. (This was despite routinely having the
highest standardized test scores in my entire high school and a solid GPA. I
usually test in the 95-99% range nationwide.)

Meanwhile, many of my far stupider peers with richer/more benevolent parents
have already graduated. The only difference between me and them is access to
tens of thousands of dollars in tuition money. Colleges are nothing but a
business, and if you think otherwise, you are very lucky to have been in a
situation where you have never had to wait out half a decade in poverty
because of where and how you were born.

~~~
lmartel
Your situation sounds awful and I'm very sorry you're going through that.

But, what's the alternative from the universities' point of view? If they gave
extra financial aid to students disowned by their parents, _every_ parent
would claim to hate their child to save on tuition.

~~~
Crake
The alternative would be to prioritize academics over profits. In civilized
countries, tuition is usually free, and college entrance standards are much
higher.

I know an english major who graduated still unable to distinguish between
"your" and "you're." Who would you rather have in college, her or me?

~~~
aestra
There's no such thing as a free lunch.

 _Someone_ pays for it.

It's a minor but important point. Lets not kid ourselves here.

~~~
danieldk
_Someone pays for it._

I don't think anyone is under the illusion that education is free. However, it
benefits society as a whole, and not everyone may be able to afford it. So, it
is often in the interest of society to make good tuition affordable,
regardless the background of a student.

Of course, it is also beneficial for the student. But for that we have the tax
man :).

------
hacknat
Very, very good. I share the author's sentiments immensely, and he articulated
these ideas much better than I ever could. However, the final lines bothered
me:

>> When you deserve it, come back to us. Share your service with your peers
and your children.

>>Then you'll be part of our family. Then you'll truly belong.

I don't know what it would ever mean to deserve the wealth and privilege that
I have now. I want to do everything in my power to make sure that the
injustices that have built history are righted.

To the extent that I can participate in righting wrongs rather than making
them I can say to myself on my death bed, "I lead a good life", but will I
ever deserve what I currently have? How would I ever know that?

~~~
cmyr
Does that matter? The idea of 'deserving' is sort of predicated on their being
some sort of higher guiding force sorting us into piles. Being aware of the
ways you have benefited from historical circumstance is an important thing.

I think, basically: Don't be worried about whether or not you deserve the
things you've been gifted. Maybe worry instead about whether or not you're
using those gifts for some good.

~~~
nathan_long
>> The idea of 'deserving' is sort of predicated on their being some sort of
higher guiding force sorting us into piles... Maybe worry instead about
whether or not you're using those gifts for some good.

Objective, higher-force kind of good? Or "however I define it" good? Because
everyone does the latter, probably even serial killers. "He deserved it," they
say.

------
Q4273j3b
"Things happen to people by accident," she used to say. "A lot of nice
accidents have happened to me. It just HAPPENED that I always liked lessons
and books, and could remember things when I learned them. It just happened
that I was born with a father who was beautiful and nice and clever, and could
give me everything I liked. Perhaps I have not really a good temper at all,
but if you have everything you want and everyone is kind to you, how can you
help but be good-tempered? I don't know"—looking quite serious—"how I shall
ever find out whether I am really a nice child or a horrid one. Perhaps I'm a
HIDEOUS child, and no one will ever know, just because I never have any
trials."

"Lavinia has no trials," said Ermengarde, stolidly, "and she is horrid
enough."

\- A Little Princess
([http://www.gutenberg.org/files/146/146-h/146-h.htm](http://www.gutenberg.org/files/146/146-h/146-h.htm)).
It's a kids book from 1901 about fortune of birth. One of the most interesting
things I've ever read.

------
Jormundir
I've never understood why anyone feels they have a right to say these sorts of
things to anyone.

Why should I listen to an old Dean of Admissions speak condescendingly about
what I deserve or not? He lost all respect from me, and reverberated the silly
"us older generations are wise and have made a beautiful fairy-tale world for
you. We look at you youths and think you're incapable idiots who are going to
destroy the world, who don't know how to work".

STFU older generations! We are more capable and morally idealistic than any
generation before. We work fucking hard for what's right, and will make the
world a better place for our kids. I know when I'm old I'm not going to tell
my kids they're worrisome morons who deserve nothing. They will work hard,
they will be more capable than me, I will inevitable worry, but I will support
them unlike these occasional airheads of my parents generation.

~~~
kamaal
Reminds me of a situation I had around a decade back. I get into a bus, slowly
the bus gets crowdy and then it was totally packed. I was busy reading my
Physics text book, to notice how many people gotten into the bus.

Then I saw a man, may be in 50's was standing right next to my seat. Realizing
he was a little aged and might be tired after the day's work, I just got up
and offered the man my seat. What happens next? This guy doesn't even offer a
'Thank you', he just goes on and on about bashing the younger generation in
general and me about values and stuff for not offering him the seat a little
early.

After a while I had it enough, and asked the man to give me my seat back. He
put up a puzzled look, I told him he didn't deserve any courtesy from anyone.

Some people just can't stop showing their 'holier than thou' attitude.

~~~
troels
Did he get up?

------
epaga
At first, this article struck a nerve and I found myself agreeing for a while.

On second thought, however, I think the author falls to the other extreme of
that which he is criticizing. I'm all for critiquing the vacuous "You're
special! you DESERVE to be here!"

But to instead turn around and say "No, you don't deserve to be here! So EARN
it!" is to trade a meaningless vague happy feeling for crushing pressure which
turns to either arrogance when you succeed or despair when you fail.

Instead of making "earning" / "deserving" something the central point, why not
focus on taking that which was given to you at birth and in your upbringing
and education (much of which you did not "earn" or "deserve") and making the
most of it? Not with the goal of "deserving" something but rather because
otherwise the good that was given would go to waste.

------
telephonetemp
The whole notion of desert or lack thereof seems pretty iffy to me. Nobody
accomplishes anything without some degree of luck and help from others, which
at minimum includes having been born with a brain and having been fed as a
baby, and if you believe in biological and economical determinism beyond that
it becomes very hard to say who deserves what. In practice most people seem to
evaluate how deserving someone is of his or her accomplishments based on
whether or not that person meets an arbitrary cutoff for hardship (as
indicated by external signs) and where the exact cutoff level lies depends on
the evaluator's own experience with hardship and the local baseline for it.
This is more of a tool for establishing social status than for moral judgement
per se.

Actual accomplishments and the lack of pride (in the sense examined by C. S.
Lewis and delightfully summarized at
[http://squid314.livejournal.com/339814.html](http://squid314.livejournal.com/339814.html))
seem to me to be a better measure of a person no matter how lucky that
person's birth was.

------
nirmel
It is a truth that we don't deserve anything we have, here in the upper class
of the developed world. If we believe that in general believe have
approximately the amount they deserve to have, then that would also mean that
people who have nothing deserve nothing. For what fault of theirs? For being
born somewhere poor, somewhere dirt poor. And if we don't deserve what we
have, then we're obligated to help those who deserve to have more than they
do.

~~~
icebraining
The poor don't deserve to be poor. And they don't deserve to not be poor. The
whole concept, applied at a global level, is nothing more than yet another
example of our need to wrap everything we see in pretty stories.

I wish we had a more equal world, but I don't see why should I believe this to
be anything more than a personal preference.

~~~
eli_gottlieb
At the very least, it's a personal preference that generally accords with
other people's personal preferences when actually implemented. Highly
egalitarian, highly productive societies are _effective_ at sustaining
themselves, defending themselves, and keeping their citizens happy -- in fact,
_more so_ compared to highly inegalitarian societies. So why the hell not?

------
nyan_sandwich
We _have_ some, and will _create_ more. There is no "deserve".

The author seemed to teeter between inspiration and self destructive guilt. I
liked the inspirational part.

------
abritishguy
I understand what the author is saying but I disagree, I'm a fresher at
Cambridge University and for those of us that haven't come from the private
schools it can feel a bit overwhelming and that somehow you have conned them
into thinking you're good enough. I can't quite remember what the warden said
at our matriculation dinner but it followed the same sentiment that basically
every one of us is good enough to be here and that many of us will be feeling
that they are out of place but this is normal and not to worry. A week in and
I'm absolutely loving it (it's hard work though).

The first week should be for getting people settled in and making new friends.

------
aaron695
Meh, meaningless claptrap.

The students worked hard to get there, which is just day one of entrance.

Do they deserve to be graduates, no, they get that reward when they graduate
after more hard work.

Are they rich peoples children, well yes all Americans are compared to many
Somalians or people who lived 500 years ago. No one today deserves anything in
that meaningless sense.

------
joelrunyon
Deserve is always a scary word. Every time I hear it - I assume the person is
preying on my ego in order to sell me something.

~~~
darkarmani
Notice how no one ever deserves negative consequences, only positive
consequences. That's what bothers me. If people deserve success from working
hard, why don't people deserve failure if they don't work hard?

------
russelluresti
Or my speech...

You do not deserve to be here. You do not deserve to have to pay $60,000 a
year. For those of you who graduate, because at least 20% of you will not, you
do not deserve to leave here $240,000 in debt to student loans only to end up
taking a job that does not require the degree you will spend the next 4-6
years pursuing. No one deserve to struggle financially for the rest of their
lives because of 4 years of bullshit that your parents, educators, and soceity
sold you as the only way to "get a good job" or "make a decent living."

Stanford is a private "educational" institution that operates for profit. The
notion that you have to "deserve" to be there while going into debt and paying
them is ridiculous. That's like saying you don't deserve to eat at Olive
Garden; even though you're paying them, even though you worked hard to earn
the money to pay them; because eating there is a privilege that you haven't
earned yet.

------
zacinbusiness
No one deserves to be anywhere, it's all made up.

~~~
onedev
Cynically simple, logically lazy, yet completely valid point.

Though you can say "it's all made up" for anything in any argument; Don't know
if I agree with it completely but I kinda get what you're trying to say in
this case.

------
6d0debc071
You can't talk to adults like that.

"You don't deserve to be here."

"I studied hard, I did extra curricular activities. I'm smart and I suffered
for this. I earned it. When I want someone to look into my soul and spout BS
about worthiness, I'll find a priest. In the meantime you've just lost any
moral credit you had with me by pretending to know me. Good day."

Maybe it's true that other people deserve it more - I don't think too many
people hold out with the idea that they're the most deserving people on the
face of the planet though and wouldn't imagine that's what they mean by
deserve. Indeed it's hard to see how performing community service would make
you fulfil the latter definition.

------
rawatson
The author of this article quotes two bits from the speech:

>We have made no mistakes about your admission.

and

>You all deserve to be here!

The first statement is the more important part. Incoming freshmen meet an
extremely talented group of people when they arrive on campus. It's easy to be
intimidated by what others have accomplished before even getting to college.
The point of this speech isn't to comment on the service undertaken by
students, but rather to reassure them that they are capable of performing at
the level of the peers they're so impressed by.

~~~
abritishguy
This is what I think I think the author is missing, perhaps a better word than
'deserve' could have been used but the sentiment was right.

------
allochthon
Implicit premise of the author: he's among the deserving.

------
adamnemecek
How delightfully nebulous and unspecific.

~~~
hacknat
I know...isn't history a bitch. Sometimes being judged and accused is okay.

~~~
tsotha
But only for things you've done. I don't care what your background is, it's
not easy to get into Stanford, and anyone who gets in should be congratulated.

------
sac2171
I just graduated from another elite institution, and I truly wish this had
been a part of my convocation.

If I ever do open a school, we will have a succinct version as part of the
school creed/honor code.

------
Anechoic
I get the message that Carey was trying to convey but I disagree strongly. I
went to MIT in the 1990's. One kid in our dorm killed himself. A group of
friends and I had to convince another student to not kill herself. The problem
has been so endemic that the Boston Glove wrote a series of articles about it.
From what I can tell, similar "elite" universities have their own suicide
problems.

A lot of this stems from the fact that these freshmen students are 15-18 year-
old _kids_ who are facing a really competitive atmosphere, mot to mention
being away from home on an extended basis, for the first time. They attend
with the hopes and wishes of family, friends and teachers back home and they
are fully aware of the financial sacrifices that it took to get them to
college. When they get that first 'C' or even a 'D' or 'F' it's very easy to
look on yourself as a failure - and suicide looks like an easy way out for
some.

These students _don 't_ think they deserve to be there, where the opposite is
true. That's why these universities try to drill in the positive message. As
WA wrote, the real world will make itself known in due time, laying a guilt
trip on kids as soon as they arrive is not the way to go. At graduation, sure
tell them to give back. But as incoming freshmen, the priority should be
helping them succeed.

------
codex
Children share the same genes and epigenetics as ther ancestors. Likely it's
the source of their consciousness. So really, parents and children can be
considered the same organism, only running with different inputs. Why
shouldn't the same organism, who has worked hard, benefit from the fruits of
their labor?

Luck is also involved, but luck, which is random, is distributed randomly and
is thus fair to all people in aggregate, even while it is unavoidably unfair
up close.

So, where's the unfairness? There is an inherent unfairness that comes with
wealth and privilege in that it throws up barriers to newcomers. An equally
qualified newcomer may be excluded from the spoils; for that reason, society
is never a place where each person has an opportunity to rise to the limits of
their ability.

What's interesting here is that the unfairness is not only cross generational,
but can occur within the same generation. Serial entrepreneurship is unfair;
it makes it harder for newcomers. Wrath accumulation unfair. Having a large
social network is unfair.

Therefore, anyone interested in fairness should also levy a progressive tax on
wealth accumulation. At the top end, it should be a lot more than 35%.

------
kiddz
The round of applause from the students was likely because they were relieved
to have the validation. I went to great schools and it seemed like many of us
were always thinking that none of us were as smart/gifted/different as the
next person (side note: doesn't take 100% audience buy-in to get the whole
audience eventually applauding). But the twist is reminding students (and
especially young alum) what such a prestigious degree means -- in short, not
as much as you would hope. And for good reason because the tools of the
"knowledge economy" are more freely available then ever before. I'm not saying
that Khan Academy or Rural Broadband is equal to 4 years at Yale, but I do
think that 4 years at Yale is less meaningful now. Like, wouldn't many of you
rather have a Karma score of 5000 if you were applying to YC then a CS degree
from Stanford?

------
wellboy
I like this, but instead of saying they don't deserve to be there, I would add
that having made it into Stanford is actually "nothing". It could be like
this:

Stanford will probably be the most intensive and formative period in your
life. However, Stanford can only prepare for the big things that are about to
come. The real test comes, once you have your degree in their hands. What will
you do with you life after Stanford, will they want to be a pure engineer,
work at Facebook or Google, will you try to found the next billion dollar
startup, will you cure cancer or become an astronaout?

Stanford might seem big and overwhelming now, however it is still just a
nursery and a stepping stone to the challenges to come after Stanford. So
don't be overwhelmed, stay humble, stay foolish.

------
freshhawk
How did a "You should all feel very lucky to be here, you have been given
quite the opportunity and not everyone is so lucky. Count yourselves
fortunate, work hard and try and make a real contribution to the world to make
the most of where you are" get characterized as a "fuck you" speech?

Did people only read the headline and get caught up on the word "deserve"?

Am I crazy in that I found the hypothetical speech to be motivating and very
positive overall? These people are young adults, they can handle a fair bit of
truth, especially since they are young, smart and at Stanford so the truth is
pretty damn great. Why on earth people think this would be demotivating is
beyond me.

------
yetanotherphd
"You will deserve to be here (and to exist as a human being) when you have
learned to accept my progressive values"

I haven't been to one of these speeches but I assume they are mostly
meaningless platitudes. But this is better than left wing indoctrination where
they are berated for their privilege and told to seek out "human things, like
ethics and obligation and desire" \- code for progressive thinking. There will
be plenty of time in Gen Eds for that.

------
aianus
If you believe that the unit of life is the gene and not the individual, then
rich children are deserving of their privilege.

Their genes, in their previous incarnations, were able not only to survive
(through the survival and reproduction of their ancestors) but also to
accumulate, preserve, and pass down wealth.

Money and social status is the only form of evolution that's left in a society
where (almost) everyone is capable of surviving and reproducing.

------
dgreensp
The author has his own negative emotional agenda.

If you got accepted to Stanford, great, go to Stanford. It's just a school, a
place where people go to learn, and it's a rather expensive one. So learn, and
focus on bigger things than moral guilt and self-doubt over the opportunity
you've been given, like your career and developing yourself. That will put you
in a much better position to give back to the world.

------
wtvanhest
Does anyone have any opinion on this:

"We live in a society increasingly defined by winner-takes-all competition."

I see this sentence cropping up more and more. I do not see a true structural
change in society or business. I definitely see more opportunities for winner-
take-all business, but only in terms of rapid scale, not long term sustainable
positions of true market dominance.

~~~
VLM
"I do not see a true structural change in society or business."

You need more data. Look at graphs of wealth and income distribution by
percentile quartile whatever-ile, especially over last couple decades. Then
re-analyze the trend of "winner takes all".

~~~
wtvanhest
I think you have a good point, but I don't see any changing quartile analysis
or percentile analysis of income distribution.

I did find this: [http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/07/yes-the-middle-class-has-
be...](http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/07/yes-the-middle-class-has-been-
disappearing-but-they-havent-fallen-into-the-lower-class-theyve-risen-into-
the-upper-class/)

but it seems to fail to account for the fact that overtime, more and more
households have become two working person households.

IDK, I just haven't seen a clear and compelling analysis that says that we are
heading toward winner takes all.

------
webo
"Dean Shaw announced that the freshman class included students from 49
states—"We miss you, Arkansas"—and 66 countries." From Arkansas here. Ouch.

~~~
m0nty
Could you explain the reference? Cultural gap obscures meaning.

~~~
jamessb
The incoming class included at least one student from 49 of the 50 states -
every state except Arkansas.

------
mankypro
You know how you can tell if someone went to Stanford? You don't have to,
they'll tell you...

------
graycat
Stanford's not so great. I've seen a good fraction of some of their best work,
and it's not too difficult. E.g., to me, Ng is out in la-la land. Diaconis is
not too difficult but much, much better than Ng. Then some of the best are
Royden, Luenberger, and Chung, but none of their books should be regarded as
needing some super human effort -- they are all very clear writers.

For Stanford 'computer science', mostly f'get about that; maybe in 50 years it
will have some significant content.

The speech was insulting BS.

A lot of HS students work their tails off trying to get into places such as
Stanford; sad situation. E.g., they take AP calculus. Total bummer. F'get
about AP calculus because the people who wrote that material didn't understand
calculus very well. Instead, just get a good college calculus book and dig in,
that is, study the material and examples and then work the exercises until
understand them and the material well. Work from more than one famous book.
There are highly polished college calculus texts going back at least 50 years
and no shortages. Working through a good college calculus book is not
difficult and great fun. All the angst over AP calculus is just make-work,
junk-think, busy-work sadism to hurt high school students by trying to make
difficult something that should be fun.

High schools and that Stanford admissions guy just like to beat up on HS
students. Bummer.

Me? I never took freshman calculus! Instead, the college where I did my
freshman year was not very good and forced me into a math course beneath what
I'd done in my relatively good HS. So, a girl in the class told me when the
tests were; I showed up for those; and meanwhile I got a good calculus book
and dug in. For my sophomore year I went to a much better college, started on
their relatively good sophomore calculus (same text then used at Harvard), did
well, got "Honors in Mathematics" and 800 on my Math GRE. Yup, never took
freshman calculus. Well, HS students can do the same: Just get a good,
standard, popular, recognized calculus book and dig in. Then f'get about AP
calculus and either just skip calculus in college or just show up for the
tests and move on to, say, linear algebra (say, one of Noble, Nearing, Hoffman
and Kunze, or Strang, and, finally, Halmos), theoretical advanced calculus,
applied advanced calculus, ordinary differential equations, elementary
probability and statistics (race through it and don't take it seriously since
will see it all again with much higher quality), measure theory and functional
analysis, probability and stochastic processes, mathematical statistics, etc.
Pick a real problem, do some research, get a Ph.D. in engineering, then write
software for a startup!

------
1angryhacker
SOMEONE GIVE ME MONEY TO MAKE MY PET FERRET-TUMBLR APP PLEASE

seriously.

------
GoofballJones
I agree, no one deserves having to go to Stanford.

Go Berkeley!

