

Safari 4 beta released - amitt
http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/02/24/safari-4-finally-a-reason-to-come-back/

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callahad
Goodbye, native controls and window decorations. I'll miss you.

<http://i43.tinypic.com/2mk2uo.png>

~~~
unalone
Surprising that they skimped on XP. On Vista it looks excellent.

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jeroen
Better, but not excellent.

The min-max-close buttons look good, but the mouseover effect on the menubar
is horrible, the input fields for url and search are non-standard. And why can
I drag a tab when there is only one?

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bonaldi
I've been using a lot of this in a developer preview for a while now, and the
improvements over 3 are many, especially in the massively improved web
inspector. The majority of the new things today are in the UI -- the tabs at
the top, the top sites home screen -- and the majority of that is just Chrome
done better.

I'm surprised at how quickly they've aped Google, actually. Perhaps just to
spite them for taking so goddamn long over Mac Chrome? To be honest, I'd
rather they'd aped the process-per-tab thing more.

Still missing: undo last tab close. Don't like the fixed "Add bookmark" button
much, either.

~~~
sant0sk1
I've been using the Web Inspector in WebKit nightlies for awhile now and it
still doesn't measure up to FireBug.

Even the simplest thing like changing CSS properties on the fly just don't
work right in Web Inspector yet. I can't wait for it to catch up though so I
can quit running 2 browsers simultaneously all the time!

~~~
gruseom
I still like Firebug better too. Unfortunately its debugger has massive
stability issues (at least on larger files). I can kind of get it to work if I
talk really nicely to it. Not clear to me what the source of the problem
really is, but the last few releases have been mostly bug fixes, and they seem
to introduce as many bugs as they fix. That's a bad sign.

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unalone
A few thoughts:

1) The Top Sites needs a way for me to manually add a site I want to add. It
looks beautiful but right now I've got one site in my top list that I feel
shouldn't be there, because I didn't like my #6 and cycled through far too
long, looking in vain for the one I wanted. (EDIT: Fixed!)

2) The feel is incredibly Mac-like. This is what I've wanted Safari to be like
all along.

3) People that run the browser in "anti-chrome" mode (remove the bookmarks bar
and the URL bar and run all searches with CMD-L) will find this to be the best
solution they've ever used. Now there's a single line, since even the tab bar
is gone. Brilliant solution on Apple's part to the problem of eliminating
chrome. Furthermore, there used to be a bug where the search bar wouldn't
vanish if you used the Google search bar during CMD-L. That bug is gone,
meaning there's no need for a workaround (though I still think having a
shortcut for a javascript-prompt Google search is the best solution).

4) It's a little harder to drag the tab bars around: I like that they let you
detach more simply, but rearranging will take a week's getting used to.

5) Using Zoom with multitouch is incredible - I love how that feels - but not
quite perfect. It's too responsive.

6) Multiple tabs look great - I like the expanded view and the faded out text
that appears.

7) Trying to open an old tab I keep trying to double click, which minimizes
the window. Not quite optimal.

8) No spinning loader for the page I'm currently on? Frustrating.

~~~
dchest
On 1) You can (at least on Mac) — drag a site icon from address to Desktop,
then open a new tab with Top Sites and drag the alias into it. (But be
careful: I just did this, and can't remove the site from Top Sites :)

~~~
unalone
Excellent! Worked perfectly. (If you go to Edit, you should be able to delete
it. I tried and it worked.)

~~~
dchest
Yep, I've been in Edit mode already, and there were no buttons for dropped
site. Guess you should first press "Done", and only then drop an alias.

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wesley
No, after you add the sites and press done, you'll have to click on the
thumbnails to visit the site. Only then will the edit icons appear on re-
editing.

~~~
dchest
Which, I guess, is a bug.

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jsdalton
The one thing I always, always miss when I attempt to switch from Firefox to
Safari is how Firefox automatically executes an I'm Feeling Lucky search from
the address bar. It's an even better feature now that it searches my
history/bookmarks first, allowing me to save the I'm Feeling Lucky step if I
find a match first.

Safari mimics the live search of bookmarks/history in Safari 4, but what
happens if I don't find a match there? I'm left with the search term in my
address bar, and now I have to jump over to the Google Search field, _retype_
my query, execute it, and then mouse down to the search results to get where
I'm going.

Sigh.

Of course, if Firefox didn't regularly take up 15-20% of my CPU resources
after having it open for 10 minutes I wouldn't be trying out new browsers
every 3 months!

~~~
unalone
I liked the unified approach that Chrome used a lot. Safari's wonky solution
(go to "[].com") is one of the few things I dislike about the browser.
However, I don't often find a need to search for a query I type into my
browser, since I most often use direct URLs for that.

~~~
jsdalton
Once you get used to using the address bar as a search field, it's addicting.
Right now, for example, I'm working on a project in Django, so I'll type
things like "django queryset" in my browser bar and it will pop me straight
through to the documentation for it.

Point being, I use it for more than just hitting the home page of a website.

~~~
unalone
I guess my browsing model works a bit differently, then. I use a keyboard
shortcut to search, so that's just as approachable as the URL bar to me.

~~~
jsdalton
> I use a keyboard shortcut to search

Out of curiosity, what do you mean?

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unalone
I have Command-E mapped to Safari's search bar, and Command-2 mapped to a
Javascript prompt to search (which helped with a bug that seems to have
disappeared in Safari 4). Since the two fields were an equal number of
keystrokes away, I've never found myself entering something in the URL bar
that I meant to search. (I guess if I _did_ have to, I would Command-A-C-tab-V
it to save time - not too much of a time loss.)

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evaneykelen
Still baffled by lack of proper auto completion for URLs based on the (HTML)
title, e.g. typing 'hacker' into the address bar still does not offer me e.g.
news.ycombinator.com even when this page has been loaded before, cached and
stored in the history (btw: the new history search _does_ find URLs based on
the title and other page content).

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unalone
Is that a huge complaint? I've always liked that I can just use the URL and
have it autocomplete. (On Firefox, if I type "n" and hit enter it doesn't take
me directly to news.ycombinator.com, and that always irritates me.)

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pmsaue0
mine does ;) <https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/7423>

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ivank
Why not just browser.urlbar.autoFill -> true?

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arthurk
Hidden settings: <http://pastie.textmate.org/398861> (including blue progress
bar and tab bar placing)

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MikeCapone
I like it so far. The only thing that bugs me a little is that when you open a
lot of tabs, it's a bit more cramped than before (and I'm always afraid of
hitting the "close tab" button), and that to re-arrange tabs, you have to drag
them by the corner (otherwise you move the whole window).

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CalmQuiet
Who can complain about an (alleged) increase of javascript speed of 4x.

Unfortunately, apparently still no support for plug-ins?

And the vaguely suggested help for developers... marginal: "built-in web
developer tools to debug, tweak and optimize a website for peak performance
and compatibility"

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unalone
_Unfortunately, apparently still no support for plug-ins?_

Safari has supported plugins since before I got my first Mac. I use Inquisitor
for searching right now. Google SafariStand if you don't believe me.

Mac users who want to block ads can get GlimmerBlocker, which blocks ads on
_every_ browser at once. If you want to customize Safari further, GreaseKit
allows you to inject your own code into sites (it's Greasemonkey).

Apple won't do anything further. In their mind a program should be designed
with the right features in mind up front, and then everything else can be
hacked for the people who really, really care. Most of the people who use
Safari like that a lot. I do.

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dchest
These are input manager hacks, they are not real plugins.

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unalone
My point was that the big things I'd _want_ a plugin for you can do.
GlimmerBlocker is incredible.

I don't want StumbleUpon. I don't want Snap Previews. I don't want del.icio.us
or a music player plugin or whatever else plugins offer. I want a browser that
lets me access the web as powerfully as possible. The only plugins I care
about are the ones who make that more efficient.

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maximilian
I want delicious syncing. I like that in firefox on my linux box.

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unalone
I'm not a Delicious user - I've never seen the point to storing my bookmarks
on a web site - so that's a feature I never missed.

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miguelpais
I don't know if this is just in the version 4, but it seems to me a major bug
the fact that I'm not able to cycle through tabs when I'm on a page with an
input text box selected, like in Google.com.

Does anyone confirm this or is it just ignorance from my part?

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jgranby
It still works for me. Are you just referring to keyboard shortcuts, or can
you not cycle through using the menu bar either? If you're trying to use cmd-
shift-arrows, it won't work when a text field has focus, because they're the
keyboard shortcuts used for selecting from the cursor until/from the
end/beginning of the line. This changed a while back. Best to use cmd-shift-[
and cmd-shift-] instead, or the crazy new ones described in the menu. I'm not
sure what the situation is for Windows.

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miguelpais
Yes, I am on the Mac (sorry for the lack of info of the last comment), and I
was trying cmd+shift+arrows. And yes, control+tab works, although it stills
not jumps directly to the next tab if, as an example, you're on google.com
with the input box selected it will jump first to the adress bar...

don't know why... but thanks. ;)

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alexyim
I like the location bar completion. It's a mixture of Safari/old Firefox's
completion (+ faster speed) and the new Spotlight/FF3 style autocomplete. I
think this is one example of good attention to detail on Apple's part.

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GHFigs
Interesting that this release lacks the one notable feature of the Safari 4
Developer Preview. I wonder whether it's been cut entirely or simply cut from
the beta release.

~~~
superchink
Which feature are you referring to?

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unalone
The ability to save web sites as standalone applications.

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kyro
So, what's webymnd's take on this?

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amirnathoo
There's a lot here that is the same as WebMynd's history functionality as we
launched it last year. But now we're really focused on aggregating search
sources on Google, and the history component and cover-flow visualization are
only small elements of it.

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hellweaver666
I'm really not liking the Chrome style 'tabs on top' my eyes are used to
looking in one place for a tab and now it's somewhere else! I use Firefox as
my primary browser and only use Safari as a dedicated browser for Google
Reader - the difference in tabs is going to confuse me for quite some time I
imagine.

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peregrine
But when you get used to it you won't be able to go back.

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gry
I have a hunch this is a prelude to seeing it as a pervasive UI element in
iLife and possibly as core UI element within Snow Leopard.

It seems when different Apple teams introduce something, it trickles into
other applications. Smart Playlists/Mailboxes, and brushed metal theme come to
mind. It'd be fun to do a study to see how one application influenced others
and possibly the OS.

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bradgessler
Did they fix the bugs from 3.2.1 where Safari would forget your Facebook login
and screw up logging into Gmail?

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amichail
I can't log into gmail with Version 4 Public Beta (5528.16) on mac.

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amichail
You need to disable offline mode for it to work.

~~~
superchink
Thanks for the advice. This issue made me uninstall it almost immediately.
Maybe I'll give it a shot now.

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akirk
Best point for me: more screen space because what used to be the tab bar has
been reduced to 0px.

Worst point for me: Progress indicator is gone/almost invisible. I now have to
check twice whether or not I properly clicked a link.

~~~
akirk
You can bring the process indicator back, as well as some other things, as I
just found out at this blog post:
<http://swedishcampground.com/safari-4-hidden-preferences>

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anatoli
Cool stuff, but I'm having a problem with the new Web Inspector... it seems to
show the ungzipped file size for all files, rather than the gzipped one (which
would be more useful).

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donniefitz2
I do love how minimal it is. It seems to be running really well on Windows 7
too.

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mcav
I'll be interested to see how this compares to the Webkit nightly builds...

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GHFigs
It is recent enough to support CSS explicit animations, one of the newest
visible features added in WebKit. For example: <http://webkit.org/blog-
files/leaves/index.html>

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melvinram
My google hosted email won't load with this.

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melvinram
Turns out it was because of Google Gears. I uninstalled Gears and it worked
fine. If you have same issue, you can uninstall gears by running this command
from your terminal (includ quotes):

'/Library/Internet Plug-Ins/Gears.plugin/Contents/Resources/uninstall.command'

~~~
aboodman
Sorry about that. We are working on a build to fix this now.

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sarvesh
It is pretty fast with respect javascript. Here are some results from my tests
comparing it with Opera.

OS X: It way fater on every test except for 3D Mesh Transformation.
(Safari:<http://dromaeo.com/?id=60726>, Opera:<http://dromaeo.com/?id=60727>).
Safari was slower to respond compared to Opera during the tests and did
consume more memory.

Windows XP: It way fater on every test except for 3D Mesh Transformation.
(Safari:<http://dromaeo.com/?id=60707>, Opera:<http://dromaeo.com/?id=60712>).
Safari wasn't responsive at all compared to Opera during the tests and did
consume more memory.

Looks like my favourite browser, Opera, needs new javascript engine.

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chiffonade
Yes, this is good.

On first glance it seems like they also fixed some of the blocking i/o issues
that caused beachballs in Safari 3 and earlier - I wouldn't be surprised if
they vastly improved this, since the whole history indexing thing probably is
fairly intensive with disk.

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releasedatez
For frontend web coder, here's yet another browser to test on.

~~~
bkbleikamp
It's WebKit...it passes Acid 3...what more do you want? If you write good
markup and CSS, you should have no problem.

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karim
According to <http://www.apple.com/safari/features.html>,

"Enhanced Keyboard Navigation

Thanks to the enhanced keyboard navigation options in Safari, you can navigate
the web without a mouse. Press the Tab key, and Safari jumps to the next
password field, pop-up menu, or input field."

This is innovation !

