
Electronics-recycling innovator going to prison for trying extend computer lives - thread_id
http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-microsoft-copyright-20180426-story.html
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merricksb
Several recent discussions about this:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16924587](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16924587)
\- 87 points/6 days ago/11 comments

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16921634](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16921634)
\- 390 points/6 days ago/262 comments

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16940722](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16940722)
\- 72 points/4 days ago/22 comments

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petraeus
Its quite clear to anyone with even an passing understanding of copyright and
to anyone with even a basic moral compass that what this fraudster did was not
illegal or right and he paid the price. A few techcrunch articles will not
change this understanding.

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sandov
This should be in the news and front page of every tech site.

Whenever I bring up the abusive legal behaviour of these big companies or how
inherently flawed IP laws are, people either shrug it off or treat me as if I
was wearing a tinfoil-hat.

~~~
jhallenworld
I'm wondering if this is government overzealousness, not something Microsoft
particularly cared about (aside from their lawyer perhaps carelessly chiming
in). Government has a lot invested in this prosecution: they set up a sting,
some prosecutor's reputation is probably on the line.

It very much reminds me of the Aarton Swartz case (whose life was destroyed by
Carmen Ortiz).

Anyway, the article is light on details.

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mirimir
Microsoft could have disavowed any claims. Said that the CDs were worth
nothing. But they didn't, so they're just as much at fault as the prosecutors
are.

~~~
DanBC
Why did he spend tens of thousands of dollars creating discs that had no
value?

The courts found that MS sell these discs for $25. They mulitplied that by the
number of discs he sold. They did it that way, rather than using the price he
sold them at, because he had done such a good job of forging them and the law
then uses the value or the infringed, not infringing, item.

(I don't think he should be in prison for this).

~~~
mirimir
> Why did he spend tens of thousands of dollars creating discs that had no
> value?

I guess because he cares about encouraging reuse?

> The courts found that MS sell these discs for $25.

But according to the article, those $25 CDs come with licenses. And his
didn't.

~~~
DanBC
The court documents explain this.

[https://blogs.microsoft.com/uploads/prod/sites/5/2018/04/FIN...](https://blogs.microsoft.com/uploads/prod/sites/5/2018/04/FINAL-
FILED-BRIEF-11.17.17-004.pdf)

> McGloin also testified about “certificate[s] of authenticity” (DE:145:45). A
> certificate of authenticity, or a “COA,” is a paper-based label that
> “contains security features, much like a bank note or [a] passport that is
> adhered to [stuck to] a device” (DE:145:45). During the conspiracy period,
> COAs typically contained a “product key” that could be used to activate the
> Microsoft OS software and verify the authenticity of the software license
> (DE:145:47). Importantly, however, an end user who purchased a computer with
> pre-loaded Microsoft OS software would not need the product key to activate
> the software (DE:145:47-48). This is because Microsoft allows devices sold
> by large OEMs like Dell to “bypass activation,”which means that an end user
> can start operating the computer without having to enter a product key
> (DE:145:48 (“COURT: So, if somebody bought a Dell laptop, and got it home,
> they plug it in and operate it? McGLOIN: Yes. COURT: And the end user does
> nothing else?McGLOIN: Correct. It gives the end user a nice experience, it
> works. THE COURT: It works.”)).

> What this creates, McGloin noted, is something called an “unconsumed”
> product key—i.e., a product key that goes unused, so to speak, because an
> end user never has had to enter it into the system, and hence Microsoft has
> not registered the use of that key as an “activation event” (DE:145:50-54).
> This “unconsumed” product key exists in “around 98 percent” of cases,
> McGloin testified, where the software was pre-installed by the OEM; there
> has not been a hardware failure; the end-user has not had to enter the
> product key; and Microsoft has not registered the use of that product key as
> an activation event (DE:145:50-54). In light of the vast number of
> unconsumed product keys,it is “very common,”McGloin explained, for computer
> refurbishers unlawfully to remove COAs with unconsumed product keys from one
> device and stick them on another device as away to grant a Microsoft
> software license impermissibly to an otherwise unlicensed device
> (DE:145:51). Indeed, there “is quite a large market for obtaining product
> keys from other devices and reselling them through a particular market, on
> Ebay or other means,” because they “[can] be used . . . in the refurbished
> market as a genuine license” (DE:145:81-82). And, as relevant here, these
> unconsumed product keys canbe used unlawfully to activate and use pirated
> versions of Microsoft OS Software like the Microsoft OS software contained
> on Lundgren’s counterfeit Reinstallation Disc

~~~
mirimir
How does that relate to Lundgren's case? Did he somehow use unconsumed product
keys? Or encourage computer refurbishers to switch COAs from one device to
another?

I don't trust the court documents, in any case. Because it's based on opinions
of biased experts.

~~~
DanBC
The court documents explain Lundgren's points (these discs are free, they
still require a licence) and the prosecution's points, and why the courts
agreed with the prosecution.

~~~
mirimir
Are you claiming that the court actually understood what he'd done? That's not
what I get from the article.

Edit: See the top comments at
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16921634](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16921634)
The court clearly didn't understand that he was providing restore disks, which
would not work unless the user already had a license key.

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rrggrr
Appalling. Anyone planning on buying Microsoft products or stick will
hopefully pause and consider this case beforehand. Gsuite works nicely as an
office replacement.

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49bc
Since when do we send snake-oil salesmen to prison? There must be more to this
story.

~~~
iamnotlarry
Selling a DVD for 0.25USD is hardly snake oil.

Perhaps you are confusing him with the official from Microsoft who testified
that the discs were equivalent to the 25USD discs sold by Microsoft.

~~~
DanBC
He wasn't selling the discs for $0.25. He was selling most of them for $3 or
$4, and a small number of them for $30 and $40.

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shmerl
_> I got in the way of their agenda," Lundgren said, "this profit model that's
way more profitable than I could ever be._

Yeah, Microsoft "changed so much for the better".

