

Hacker News User Base Changed? - TalGalili
http://www.r-bloggers.com/hacker-news-user-base-changed/
There are lots of references on Hacker news to the fact that the "good old days" are gone and that the character of the site has changed since it started.  The visualization above was based on a sample of users that posted on the site in recent times.  The data was gathered by iterating over the first 1000 pages and gleaning a list of user names.  The users ages were then checked and are plotted above.
======
DanielBMarkham
Boy you guys are going to kick me in the ass for this one, but here goes:

Hacker News is _chit-chat_. You know, like a few geeks standing around the
window and watching the construction workers instead of working.

At first (3+ years ago) I thought this was awesome! I live in a rural area and
HN was like being part of a super-secret club on the net.

Later on -- much, much later -- I realized that people who stand around the
window watching the construction workers _are not actually doing anything
useful_. Although they _feel_ like they are having a blast.

But the difference is -- and this is why it took me so long to figure it out
-- if you are standing around at a window jaw-boning it's pretty freaking
obvious to you and everyone around you that you're goofing off. Whereas if
you're on the computer? Talking about Erlang innards? Making sure that no
humor slips in? Talking about the benefits and drawbacks of some new startup
model? It all gives the illusion that something terribly important is going
on.

My new rule is: click all interesting-looking articles at wake-up. Click a few
comment threads. Commenting is failure, as it always just sucks you into more
commenting. Then? Try to close the site and stay away from it and do something
useful with my life.

If I'm on the computer, my time on HN is the leading reverse indicator of how
productive my work is that day.

Later gators

~~~
edw519
_Commenting is failure, as it always just sucks you into more commenting._

What a strange remark from one of hn's best commenters.

It's not necessarily the choice of posts that distinguish hn, but the
discussions hanging from them. Those discussions need worthwhile comments.
Like the ones you consistently make, Daniel. Please keep making them.

Commenting can be failure, but only if you let it. Personally, I rarely
respond to challenges to my comments. Engagement in debate can easily lead to
lost time. (And others usually respond before I return, anyway).

Not every minute of your day has to be invested in today's programming goal.
Think of your comments as deposits into some kind of "knowledge bank". There
may be dividends later, maybe tomorrow, maybe 6 months from now. Maybe for
you, maybe for someone else. Either way, "failure" is the last word I would
use to describe anyone's investment into this community.

~~~
DanielBMarkham
Ed, you are correct. Yet we disagree.

I'm not saying that comments don't provide useful pieces of information to the
world at large, searchable and present for future generations to read. Of
course they do. I'm not saying (as other commenters have sad) that comments
have no value. Every now and then I get some really good pieces of information
from comments. But total value and net present value are different concepts.

Case in point: I made the parent comment, then logged off. Today I'm pretty
sleepy, so I am having a hard time focusing. 15 minutes later I'm thinking
"wonder if they downvoted me over on HN?" so I pop back over. What?!? A score
of 15? Perhaps it was because I prefaced my remark with "you guys are going to
kick me in the ass"

Take note of the comments. Most, as usual, miss my point or are trying to
argue some other point. I have found that when I post a comment read by 10K
people, 40 or 50 will take it the wrong way. These are folks that if you try
to engage will just argue with you. Close the window.

Ten minutes later pop back. Score up again, eh? There might be a _good
discussion_ that hangs off this. Bears paying attention to. But must get to
work. Close window.

 _Five minutes later_ , back over here again. See your comment. Well heck, I'm
not saying it's all bad. I should type a pithy response. Ed has a good point.

Yes, to future generations _who are googling for specific data_ these
conversations are going to be a goldmine, hopefully. For us, every now and
then, you get something awesome -- just enough to keep you participating.

But overall does the participating directly relate to the work you have
planned for yourself today -- programming, hiking, reading, whatever. Or when
you find a "goodie" do you use it to justify all the time spent? It's the
Facebook question -- people you like, giving you pieces of information that
from time-to-time are valuable, letting you feel part of a group -- something
good for you or something sucking you in?

Future generations, sure. Getting things you can find nowhere else?
Absolutely. But in the present sense, in the next hour, for the next minute --
best use of time? Am I selecting to use it, or is it (and the great people who
participate!) sucking me in and then I'm rationalizing?

I can't answer the question for others. Took me a long time to figure this out
for myself, and as I am now showing, I am not very good at listening to my own
advice :)

~~~
jmatt
_Most, as usual, miss my point or are trying to argue some other point._

Many people get your point but don't comment to say so. Making (pithy
sarcastic lol agree simple rude first ...) comments is generally unacceptable
on HN unless you are one of those few people who has name recognition.

I agree with you that commenting can generally be distracting and
conversations and responses can linger as a distraction. Sometimes that is
what I'm looking for and I comment and sometimes I want to comment but just
know it could suck up the rest of my day. Obviously some people are not
affected by this. But I can relate to what you are saying. The best advice -
do what is best for you. You shouldn't feel obligated to participate.

------
KoZeN
Speaking purely for myself, I only signed up a month or two ago.

I came from Reddit (surprise, surprise) and despite not being an entrepreneur
or a hacker/developer/programmer I absolutely love the site as I am an
aspiring entrepreneur/developer witha vested interest in new technology.

I made a point of reading the rules relating to submissions and comments and I
actively abide by them simply because I respect the fact that HN wants to
maintain intellectual & relevant discussions and not become a haven for trolls
and lolcat fans.

I recently went back to reddit to see if I was missing anything and it was
honestly like going from having an informed discussion with a mature
professional, well established in his field to having a conversation with my
thirteen year old cousin who's two key interests in life are practical jokes
and boobies.

Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of love for Reddit but at this point it is
more of a guilty pleasure than anything else.

HN got quite a bit of exposure on Reddit recently due to some of the older
users complaining about the Eternal September that they are experiencing and
it was there that I discovered this wonderful part of the web.

I may be new and I may not be as well informed as a lot of people on this site
but be nice to me please as one day I plan to take over the world.

~~~
jacquesm
> but be nice to me please as one day I plan to take over the world.

That's a fairly common goal around here, so please be nice in return ;)

As for the changes, yes, they're there. I spent a lot of time half a year ago
to try to get my finger behind whether or not HN is changing and the answer is
a definite 'yes', but it's definitely not all bad. New people bring new
perspectives on subjects, the 'tone' of HN is guarded quite zealously and even
if there are (a few) more trolls on the whole it is surprising how well the
atmosphere holds up.

At the beginning of the year I predicted that HN would split, this has now
happened in the form of the 'Ask' section being given its own spot. Probably
in the future there will be more such splits if and when they make sense.

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing all the 'tech rumours' separate from the
subjects related to coding.

Even the most rudimentary newspapers know to split their content up in to a
sports section and the rest so I can skip that bit without having to bother
reading all the headlines.

Have you found <http://news.ycombinator.com/classic> already ?

~~~
KoZeN
_Have you found<http://news.ycombinator.com/classic> already?_

What's the difference? Hadn't come across it before and to be honest it
doesn't appear massively different?

~~~
derefr
It excludes the votes of new users from the page sorting algorithm.

~~~
KoZeN
Excellent. This place keeps getting better & better!

~~~
mahmud
Because the classic view excludes the input of people like yourself? :-D

------
pilif
ever since moving here from reddit (nearly 2 years ago), I loved (and still
love) this place. Lately, this goes so far as to me usually reading the
comments before even looking at a linked story.

The quality of the comments here is absolutely fantastic - like the Usenet
back in its glory days.

I really, really hope this keeps up for a very long time.

~~~
simonsarris
Is it a common thing to come from reddit to here?

I actually found out about HN and _then_ went to reddit, which I had always
assumed was a mere digg-clone.

~~~
pilif
programming reddit once had the discussion quality of hacker news. Heck, even
the front page was readable. Like digg, but high-quality.

By now it has kind of gone down the drain. A victim of its success.

~~~
Locke1689
I was one of the original users of Digg (closed beta tester). It was pretty
good in its day, too -- a lot of programmers and technical articles. I think
Digg and Reddit are pretty much identical in that sense.

~~~
parallax7d
I did the Digg > Reddit > Hacker News migration path. I'm glad to see HN seems
to have the general community stability of a Slashdot or Metafilter. Reddit
was a disappointment, although certain subreddits are very useful.

------
briancooley
You have to know the distribution of user join dates for this to be meaningful
at all.

If there are 10x as many users who joined in 2010 as there are those that
joined in 2007, then this graph implies that more veteran users are _more_
likely to post.

------
pg
It looks as if lots of users sign up in January. I never knew that. Why?

~~~
ramit
The January effect takes place in a lot of disparate areas.

Gym memberships spike in January. No surprise there.

But what's more interesting is that most self-development books are published
in January. Publishers know this is a key time to reach people in the general
areas of health & fitness, money, relationships, and work.

I've also had massive traffic spikes on my blog in January when I run a
bootcamp/New Year guide.

I wouldn't be surprised if the HN growth happens with people saying, "I really
want to learn about tech/entrepreneurship and build something this year."

------
moron4hire
Culture in any group is a malleable beast. The strictures required to keep it
from changing are far too oppressive to support the type of innovative and
creative thinking that the site wants to inspire.

------
kmfrk
Watercooler talk is fine by me. I don't have a social network of people I can
discuss HN-related news with, and I make a habit out of browsing for HN's
discussion of a news piece I'm interested in to pick the users' brain about it
- to see whether to make a big fuss out a Facebook story for instance.

The time spent on HN will always feed my guilty conscious, however, regardless
of which direction it was and is heading.

------
moxiemk1
I'm surprised at how many people say they came from Reddit - perhaps I stayed
on Slashdot for too long.

------
Amnon
What's with the periodicity of the graph? It looks like users who have signed
at the beginning of the year -- any year -- are more likely to comment? Or
more likely, much more people sign at the beginning of the year. Strange, in
any case.

------
fierarul
I assume interpreting this chart is where all the magic lies but it doesn't
tell me that much.

It tells that newer users seem to be more engaged, but it doesn't tell if we
are seeing a trend or not.

Maybe as users get older and get over the reddit factor or get busier they
post less often ?

~~~
JshWright
I had the same questions...

This chart is just a snapshot in time. It's hard to infer any sort of 'change'
from it. Perhaps the newer members of HN have always been more active
contributors (I can think of several reasonable ideas as to why that might
be).

~~~
lostbit
Indeed. I also thought: "wasn't it always like this?". I understand newcomers
tend to be naturally more active. But I also agree that the more subscribers
HN has, more is the probability of its quality going low... Maybe a graph with
the average of downvotes per articles over time could help.

------
jalada
Anyone know what's going to be next after Hacker News?

~~~
dugmartin
I'm really liking <http://forrst.com/>

Its more designer focused and as a programmer its nice to venture out beyond
my little niche.

------
drivebyacct2
Sigh, it's like being at reddit and seeing people bash Digg. It's not hard to
avoid the puns and boobs on reddit. As a gay geek who really doesn't care for
bacon, narwhals, boobs or circle jerk puns, I still find plenty of good
content on reddit, and honestly it lacks the strange feeling of supremacy that
I often get from comments here. Rrddit's subreddit style allows you very
easily to exclude the (reddit.com), etc subreddits and filter down to the good
ones.

I personally haven't been on HN for a terribly long time, and I'm mostly here
to observe other startups and see the tech news that is mixed in with the
startup news... I just find all the calls of gloom and doom unnecessary. HN
still has plenty of quality content.

That having been said, I'd be happy if every single post mentioning iOS or
Android were auto killed for the next 4 months.

------
gigafemtonano
I like the idea that I can post a comment with insight that doesn't need to be
a pun or meme. I've also become frustrated with the moderation that happens on
reddit.

