
The CIA-backed startup that's taking over Palo Alto - adventured
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/12/the-cia-backed-start-up-thats-taking-over-palo-alto.html
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ttctciyf
Surprised no-one's mentioned wikileaks and the document leak [1] that exposed
Palantir tendering to attack Assange's org on behalf of some bank.

    
    
      Combating this threat requires advanced subject matter
      expertise in cybersecurity, insider threats, counter
      cyber-fraud, targeting analysis, social media
      exploitation
    
      Palantir Technologies, HBGary Federal, and Berico
      Technologies represent deep domain knowledge in each
      of these areas
    

...

    
    
      Feed the fuel between the feuding groups. 
    
      Disinformation. Create messages around actions to
      sabotage or discredit the opposing organization.
      Submit fake documents and then call out the error.
    
      Create concern over the security of the
      infrastructure. Create exposure stories. If the
      process is believed to not be secure they are done.
    
      Cyber attacks against the infrastructure to get data
      on document submitters. This would kill the project.
      Since the servers are now in Sweden and France putting
      a team together to get access is more straightforward.
    
      Media campaign to push the radical and reckless nature
      of wikileaks activities. Sustained pressure. Does
      nothing for the fanatics, but creates concern and doubt
      amongst moderates.
    
      Search for leaks. Use social media to profile and
      identify risky behavior of employees.
    

This seems to show Palantir expertise extending beyond data filtering, and was
a big enough deal at the time for Palantir to publicly apologise and iirc lose
a member of staff.

1:
[https://wikileaks.org/IMG/pdf/WikiLeaks_Response_v6.pdf](https://wikileaks.org/IMG/pdf/WikiLeaks_Response_v6.pdf)

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appleflaxen
Only the individuals working for Palantir can know how authoritarian,
autocratic, or facist their actions are.

Based on what we know about the company, I have deep concerns regarding why
they are paid so much by the US government, and the possibility that they are
an ultimate harm to Liberty in the world.

I hope the technocrats in the machine can follow the example of Edward
Snowden, if necessary, and have the courage to speak up if they are asked to
perform unconstitutional acts as part of their employment activities.

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sageabilly
Palantir is doing some of the coolest most innovative big data parsing that
there is... unfortunately it's directly for the CIA and NSA and the
technologies that they have made public are creeeeeeepy, so who knows what
crazy stuff they're not telling the public about. I've looked into working for
them but reports from the front line are that they have zero work-life balance
and run employees into the ground with overwork.

~~~
chinathrow
If you find it "creeeeeeepy" what they do, why would you look into working
there?

~~~
DanBC
Good people working for bad companies have some small ability to change
culture.

"Is this legal?", "Do I need a warrant to do this intercept?", "Is this
compatible with our rules?", "What would our regulators say if they knew we
did this?", "How will the oversight and scrutiny committee respond to this
action?"

It's not much, but it's about as good as me from the outside writing a letter
to my MP which is about all I can do.

EDIT: to expand on this a bit. Imagine you're a mathematician and that you
have a neuro-diversity. In the past you may have struggled to get a job
because employers sometimes discriminate against neuro-atypicality. GCHQ
definitely does not do so - they mention in press releases they recognise the
advantages of neuro-diversity. So one option would be something like the
Heilbronn Institute for Mathematical Research. As an employer Google gives you
20% time. Heilbronn gives you 50% time, 50% of the time you're doing work
directed by GCHQ/CESG, the rest of the time you do what you like. That is
potentially interesting maths with interesting people. The money at GCHQ isn't
great compared to the SV bubble, but for the UK it's okay, and there other
benefits.

[http://www.bristol.ac.uk/maths/research/heilbronn/](http://www.bristol.ac.uk/maths/research/heilbronn/)

[http://web.maths.bris.ac.uk/research/heilbronn_institute/](http://web.maths.bris.ac.uk/research/heilbronn_institute/)

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11111584/...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11111584/GCHQ-
employs-more-than-100-dyslexic-and-dyspraxic-spies.html)

~~~
a3n
A professor in college suggested to me that if good people don't work for
defense companies, then only bad people will be working in defense companies.

~~~
eli_gottlieb
At that point, why should there even _be_ private defense companies? Why do we
accept that weapons manufacturing is outside of democratic control and
civilian restraint?

~~~
a3n
Interesting question. I have no idea one way or the other, I've never studied
economics beyond 101. An exploration of that question might include why the US
relied on private industry for WWII military needs, rather than building its
own factories or taking over existing ones.

~~~
Zigurd
The US effectively commandeered private industry in WWII. They were
compensated, but that was nothing like the current military weapons
procurements system.

~~~
a3n
But they were still private. Under orders, just like individual citizens were
under orders, with the draft and rationing. It was arguably an existential
threat.

But the commandeered private industry was what the current MIC grew from. It
wouldn't have happened without WWII.

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redwood
Irrespective of their work it's really not cool that they are taking over the
downtown real estate instead of moving to a campus.. changes the character of
the area that has traditionally felt like an incubator. They've broken with
local tradition.

~~~
magicmu
Yeah, I find this particularly odd given Palantir's founders... You'd think
they would care more about maintaining the current pathos of Palo Alto. Then
again, I found out recently that Thiel is a financial supporter of Ted Cruz,
so there are always surprises in store.

~~~
JackFr
pa·thos - noun, a quality that evokes pity or sadness.

~~~
magicmu
Very true, I meant it in the sense of ethos/logos/pathos -- an appeal to
emotion. You're right though, there are more accurate words.

------
chinathrow
After all what we learned about how the CIA operates: How can you as an
engineer/any other staff, work or want to work there?

This is a genuine question - I really would like to learn more about why
someone is OK working at a company with such an investor.

~~~
dogma1138
[https://www.iqt.org/portfolio/](https://www.iqt.org/portfolio/) (CIA's
investment arm)

Also whats wrong with the CIA?

~~~
fnordfnordfnord
A lot of people are probably okay with the US having an organization that
murders and tortures people, sabotages other sovereign nations' interests, and
helps US corporations compete globally through espionage; but not one that
does so much of it as the CIA. An organization like that needs to be neither
seen nor heard, and it ought to be used infrequently enough that our country
can ostensibly say that we only do those kinds when we have to.

To turn your question on its head, what's not wrong with them? It's not
controversial at all that there are many people who don't wish to work in the
defense side of aerospace, or on other weapons tech, why would it be
controversial that someone wouldn't want to work in intelligence. Some people
take professional codes of ethics (or their own personal ethics) more
seriously than others.

~~~
dogma1138
Yeah but this is like 3rd degree the CIA also has invested in Facebook. The
DOD is the largest provider of grants in the academia. And at the end various
arms (quite often defense related) of the US public sectors are quite often
one of the biggest investors and drivers behind new technologies. The valley
could not exist without the USG and specifically without DOD money.

While I completely understand people that say would not like to work on the
next generation of guided missiles, one would be hard pressed to find job in
the tech sector that is not partially funded by the more militant parts of the
US government, and if they completed STEM studies in the US more likely than
not that some of their grants and scholarships were funded by the DOD
directly.

~~~
JackFr
I was always amused by the imprimatur of the Office of Naval Research on the
Lambda the Ultimate papers.

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paulsutter
Hold on a second

> 10 to 15 percent of the commercial inventory

That doesn't exactly qualify as "taking over". A little uncool and red-statey
perhaps, but hardly a crisis.

~~~
samcheng
That is office space scattered around downtown Palo Alto that once hosted a
large variety of small startups. Now those little startups are moving to
Redwood City or San Mateo, replaced by opaque gray locked doors without
signage.

It has gotten so bad that Palo Alto enacted an ordinance to ban the conversion
of downtown retail space into office space. It is nicknamed the "Palantir
Ordinance."

[http://www.cityofpaloalto.org/civicax/filebank/documents/477...](http://www.cityofpaloalto.org/civicax/filebank/documents/47704)

~~~
paulsutter
You're conflating two separate issues. Most people would agree downtown Palo
Alto needs to keep retail space to retain its character. And they should fix
that with proper zoning.

But that's between Palo Alto and the landlords.

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rubberstamp
Its not a startup if it is this big

~~~
tempVariable
Yup, I'm pretty sure we are all aware. Started 9 years ago, 1800 employees and
$1.5B in revenue and occupies about 10% - 15% of available real estate in the
area. What universe of skewed reality is this?

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jmkni
The noisy video playing banner thing which sticks to the top of your screen in
that article is really off-putting/distracting

~~~
r3bl
I can't believe that the companies still haven't figured out that autoplaying
things is just plain wrong.

~~~
mrdrozdov
The collection rate for these sort of ads is much higher than something like a
banner ad, for instance. So they might know it negatively effects the
experience, but they must consider the payoff worth it.

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yrro
Bloody clickbait headlines!

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mariaf
I have one of those "Save the Shire" t-shirts, but I don't live in Palo Alto.
:P

~~~
pjc50
There's quite a mixed message there: the original palantir was under Sauron's
control, and the shire was to be saved _from_ the wielder of the panopticon..

~~~
arethuza
The palantíri were created by Elves and only much later captured by Sauron and
used for evil.

Possibly quite an appropriate name then... :-|

~~~
wcummings
I can appreciate how self-aware their name is.

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effenponderousa
almost certain the Palantir is funding the Clinton SuperPAC..

