
Ask HN: Leave job right before app goes to production? - throwaway3579
Throwaway account for obvious reasons.<p>Some background: A few months ago I was tossed into a dumpster fire of a project that has now grown to ~15 developers. Business dramatically added scope and was changing requirements and demanding devs work nights&#x2F;weekends to accommodate. As a result I made the decision to leave.<p>I was set to leave right after the app went into production, however now the launch date for the app has been pushed back such that I will be leaving one week before it goes into production. I want to stay until it is complete and do not like the idea of leaving right before it goes to prod, however my new employer wants me to start ASAP and with my date having been pushed back one week I&#x27;m not sure they would be too keen on it being pushed back another week.<p>How would you feel if a fellow developer left in the circumstances described?
If you were a dev manager or hired this developer, how would you feel about them leaving in the circumstances described?<p>Thanks for your feedback
======
wfleming
If the current project has been poorly managed so far & dates keep slipping,
that is likely to continue to be the case. The launch date could slip even
further.

You already arranged a leave date with your employer, and you already went
beyond what you were required to by trying to schedule that so you could help
launch the project. You are not responsible for their failure to hit their
schedules.

Trying to push your start date back with your new employer could also damage
your upcoming relationship with them: they're more likely to care that the
date change hurts _their_ plans then that you want to do something generous
for your current employer.

I think you should get out.

~~~
Ensorceled
There is nothing more frustrating as a manager than a new hire who starts
pushing back their start date, especially close to the start date.

Computers have been purchased, training partners assigned, HR booked, initial
projects pulled out of the backlog.

I've had a couple of firm conversations where I basically said, "On Monday you
should be with the company you want to be with and if that's not us, I
understand and will start the hiring process again."

~~~
ddito
So you would rather restart the hiring process than wait another week? From
what I've read about the numbers this seems very costly. Are you expecting to
be able to go through the whole hiring process successfully with another
person in 5 working days? My best guess would be that you did not like the
person that much but that is missing the point

~~~
Ensorceled
I think you are projecting. It's an ultimatum: "choose which company your
loyalties lie with". The two times I've reached the point of delivering that
ultimatum the developers showed up. If the person is not that committed
they're going to be gone anyway in three to six months which is far more
expensive in my experience.

That said, I've also given developers another week to wrap things up, more
time because of illness and family obligations, and a couple more weeks to
start when they asked because "they were still burnt out".

It's not like I throw my hands up and the first road block and shred the
resume.

~~~
JamesBarney
I bet both of those developers were thankful they had something concrete they
could go to their old job with and say "Sorry, can't do it".

~~~
ghaff
If they'd been around the block a few times, they'd probably have the
confidence to simply say that they didn't have a choice. But for someone close
to starting out, it can be nice to have someone else effectively make the
decision for them.

------
3pt14159
You should leave, and here is why:

1\. It doesn't sound like your work was properly respected.

2\. It doesn't sound like you were supported by your previous employer.

3\. It sounds like your new employer needs your help just as much as your
former employer.

4\. You committed to something to the new employer, not just to the former
employer and the only one out of the three of you that is responsible for this
delay is your former employer.

5\. They have enough other developers, the consequences of you leaving are
maybe a single extra day of development.

Leave.

~~~
NTripleOne
And besides, at the end of the day - you (OP) don't work there any more,
because of a conscious decision to leave - plenty enough reason to stop caring
if you ask me.

------
thedevil
Leave. Your last job did not value you or your work. Don't invest your soul
into a project unless it's well run (or you're the one running it) and you
reap some of the rewards.

I worked some weekends for a project at my last company because it was urgent
(it was behind schedule and they "burned the ships"). Then they canceled the
project and fired the lead developer on it.

[Edit]: And after I gave notice, I was given more flexibility so I worked hard
to code some desperately needed changes to a neglected project core to the
business. The changes I made in the last two weeks were so valuable that the
internal customers agreed to shut down the floor for a while in the middle of
the day to deploy my changes. Then, on my way out the door, the company told
me that they wouldn't pay out my unused PTO.

~~~
mixmastamyk
Where were you? A company I worked for once tried to rescind vacation I had
received, turns out it was legal where they were based, but illegal in my
state!

I got it returned with a few choice emails.

~~~
thedevil
Utah. I didn't research it thoroughly but have heard numerous times that it's
legal. It was only a week-and-a-half pay at a low salary, so it was more of an
insult than significant financial loss.

------
jeromegv
Happened to me twice, had decided to quit for a while and my last day was
supposed to be after the go-live of long projects.

On the first case, the project was so mismanaged that eventually even 3 months
later the project was still not launched, good thing I didn't stick around.

On the second case, the project was delayed by only a couple weeks. My past
employer just hired me on contract for the few hours of support they needed me
for the production launch. If your role is truly critical and you still want
to help, take a few hours on the side for them, and ensure you are paid
properly. Nobody ever considered me irresponsible to leave at the time I
wanted to leave. If your employer runs out of money, they won't hesitate to
lay you off as soon as possible, regardless of projects. That works both ways.

~~~
taneq
> If your employer runs out of money, they won't hesitate to lay you off as
> soon as possible, regardless of projects. That works both ways.

I just wanted to reinforce this. In the vast majority of cases, if it's more
convenient for your employer to let you go than to keep you, they'll do so.
The team never 'takes one' for you. Keep this at the forefront of your mind
when deciding whether it's worth 'taking one for the team.'

------
kafkaesq
Same story as always:

You did the right thing -- you gave these people proper notice, _and_ agreed
to postpone your exit until the release date on your current project (i.e.
already making a significant concession to your current employer, at the
expense of your next problem). After which your current company apparently
screwed up (as they seem to be in the habit of doing), and botched the release
date.

But once again: _you did the right thing, already_. Therefore, at this point,
you owe them _nothing_. You certainly don't "owe" it to them to discount your
next employer any further -- and not only that, it would, clearly, be
unprofessional for you to do so (or for your current employer to ask you to do
so).

And not only that -- your next employer might very well (and very
understandably) get fold feet, think "this guy has attachment / commitment"
issues -- and withdraw their offer. Employers do this _all the time_ , even
without a good reason, or any reason actually. But in this case, you'd be
giving them an awfully tempting reason.

So please don't do that.

~~~
DigitalJack
Where does it say they gave notice?

~~~
kafkaesq
Hmm, I thought it was implied by the language in the second paragraph, but
having read it again I'm not so sure. So yeah, the lack of having (thus far)
given notice would complicate things a bit.

Either way, on balance, I hope he won't risk his next job for the sake of
(incrementally) cleaning up after the messes created by the management of his
current job.

------
cwyers
As the saying goes, the graveyards are full of indispensable men. Life will go
on without you at your old job. It may go well; it may go poorly. Either way,
it's not your problem. You gave them plenty of notice already, if it was a big
deal to them they'd make it worth your while to stay and they haven't. Don't
feel guilty about treating employment as a business transaction; your employer
doesn't.

------
pavel_lishin
> _How would you feel if a fellow developer left in the circumstances
> described?_

Like watching my cellmate of two years have his sentence commuted. I'd miss
him, but expecting him to stay to keep me company is ridiculous.

Get out.

------
CodeWriter23
Be a person who keeps their commitments. You made a commitment to leave and to
start a new job. You aren't responsible that the project was mismanaged and
the business people failed to understand the old adage that 9 women can't make
a baby in 1 month.

No healthy minded person will have any ill will toward you for leaving when
you said you would. And for anyone who does, I believe rejection is the
Universe's way of helping me find where I truly belong.

------
notzorbo3
I honestly have to say that this post makes me a little angry, mostly because
it's familiar to me.

Why do we feel loyalty to a company and management that makes bad decisions
and then punishes us by making us fix their mistakes? Working overtime,
weekends.. because someone else made bad decisions. And if they're anything
like the managers I've known, they're blaming the developers for not getting
things done on time.

Having been there myself, I will _never_ give my loyalty to a company again.
You pay my salary, I work the hours we agreed upon. Literally every hour I
work extra, I expect to be compensated for. Over work should always be
incidental. If they treat me nicely, I'll probably won't job hunt for
something else. If they treat me like shit, whatever the reason, I'm gone. If
they make me do a lot of work I don't like, I'll tell them honestly and if
nothing changes, I'm gone. Life's too short and IT is in too much demand to
put up with that stuff.

------
stronglikedan
Just a personal anecdote from a person who works in an at-will state, and who
has seen employees let go with no notice or reason: they don't owe me
anything, and I don't owe them anything, so I would not feel bad about doing
what is in my best interest at the drop of a hat. That being said, I do feel a
moral obligation to my fellow employees (but not the company), and would give
more notice than the _business_ deserves if I were to leave. However, once my
decision had been made, and my notice had been given, I would not jeopardize
my new opportunity _at all_ , regardless of what had changed since.

Best of luck your new endeavor, and I hope you get it all worked out to
everyone's satisfaction.

------
ggregoire
I'm always amazed with these stories.

Here in France, and probably lot of places in Europe, a 3-months notice period
is required after informing your employer of your resignation. During this
period, you finish the things you started, they find your substitute, you
train your substitute, they write all the legal papers properly, you prepare
for your next job and so on.

3 months can be long but the working conditions become super cool (e.g. 10-4
instead of 9-5).

The same conditions apply if your employer fires you (which is relatively
rare, unless you commit serious misconduct). You stay 1 or 2 more months in
the company after being informed, so you can find another job before leaving.

(Note: during the first months in the company, you are in a trial period so
these rules don't apply. You leave when you want and they fire you when they
want.)

~~~
thieving_magpie
>Here in France, and probably lot of places in Europe, when you make the
decision to leave, you have to stay 3 more months after informing your
employer.

Seriously? You are required to stay for three months? That seems like it could
be suffocating in some instances.

~~~
beejiu
Not required at all. Most contracts in the UK have a 6 week period, although 3
months is fairly common. It is usually easily negotiated down.

~~~
karrotwaltz
Wouldn't negotiating down this delay make your employer think that you plan to
leave the company shortly after joining?

~~~
thecatspaw
it can. You also have to keep in mind that the shorter delay counts for both
sides, so they can fire you faster as well

------
ffef
Who cares. Do what YOU want to do. They'll have 14 developers to count one
once your out.

~~~
Tenhundfeld
Yes, I think this is an important point: They have 14 other developers to
count on.

If you were the sole developer or on a super small 2-3 person team, I'd
empathize with your reluctance more, though I'd still advise it's time to get
out. It's not really that you owe the "company" anything; it's that you don't
want to leave your teammates and friends in a terrible situation, etc. I get
it.

But being a member of a fairly large team... nah man, you should feel zero,
absolutely zero guilt about leaving, IMO. I would feel no negativity towards
you as a teammate. If you are truly irreplaceable on a team that size, it's
just another sign that this project is being mismanaged. GTFO! :)

------
72deluxe
I would say leave. You have given them notice. Places that are poorly managed
don't improve if you stay for a bit.

I was the sole developer of the GUI control system for some hardware, with
another guy doing firmware etc. The project was poorly specced, poorly managed
(overran by years) and my colleague would be dogmatic and argumentative whilst
at the same time writing poor quality code and taking long lunches (yes we do
have a deadline) and doing errands during work, or sitting laughing at his
monitor all morning.

I did my best and did what I could to meet deadlines (yes of course I'll stay
up til 4 in the morning writing software whilst on holiday with only a week's
notice for a show) but in the end I had to fight for pay, fight to get my lost
holiday back, had to interview my replacement (interviewed a load of people,
that was odd), and as an act of thanks was kept working late on my last day
with no formal goodbye.

So in the end your current employer won't care (they might be under more
stress for a bit). You may have personal pride in work and want to help out
due to the kind of person you are (helpful) but you are just a number to them,
sadly. Obviously some employers are better (I worked at a great company once
that truly valued me and were really great) but in general, they won't reward
you. Were you ever rewarded for staying late? Did they put more pay in your
pay packet?

Leave.

------
spinlock
How would you feel if a fellow developer left in the circumstances described?

    
    
      Jealous. I would want to leave too and would be pissed that I hadn't found a new job yet.
    

If you were a dev manager or hired this developer, how would you feel about
them leaving in the circumstances described?

    
    
      Incompetent. I've already lost this developer due to lack of management skills. Seeing them leave in these circumstances would just underline that good people quit bad managers. I'd be scared that I'd get fired next.

~~~
shimon
This is the right answer. Anyone good wants to flee the sinking ship. If the
recruiters at your new company have any hustle at all, they've probably
already started conversations with your better colleagues.

------
jdc0589
My general rule of thumb is, unless your work environment is really causing a
big negative impact on your life, time your exit so it doesn't screw someone
else's life up even more.

That said, the end of a project during or after a production launch isn't
necessarily a bad time for this. I left my last job the exact same way. Unless
you were the only person on your team with any experience of knowledge of core
components (which means it wasn't a well structured team anyway), it can work
out fine.

In my case, I had done 100% of the payment/billing system (but 1/2 others knew
about all the requirements from the planning stages), and probably 75% of the
devops + automation (fully automated infrastructure provisioning and updates).
It worked out fine.

~~~
chris_7
If (US) employers really want people's departures to not mess things up,
there's a simple tool then can use: contracts mandating notice periods. Of
course, that would require consideration, so they'd have to provide that to
employees that they are firing as well.

They've overwhelmingly chosen at-will employment, and they shouldn't be upset
when their employees actually take them up on it. Two weeks is already an
_incredible_ courtesy when you can be fired at any time for any reason (as
long as they're not stupid enough to say "yeah, we're firing you because
you're black").

~~~
jdc0589
I agree that better contractual language could be valuable for business
continuity on the employeer's side. But, state vs federal laws and precedent
would probably make that pretty difficult to enforce in lots of locales.

------
mindcrime
Whatever problems that project has, they're not your fault. I don't think you
should feel obligated to make any sacrifices in your personal life, to
accommodate problems caused by someone else.

At the end of the day, it's a business decision. Do what's right for you. If
the management of that company don't like it, that's their problem.

The only exception I'd make to this would be if the management at the current
employer are actually close personal friends and you want to avoid damaging
that relationship. Otherwise, screw 'em.

------
emeraldd
It's your life. Assuming that the your exit date has been on the table,
internal changes with your former (Their effectively former the moment you say
your leaving wether they officially are or not) employer should have no
bering. It's goo that you're thinking about the guys you work with, but you're
already, or at least should be, out the door in their minds. If the people
you're working with don't get that and think you are "screwing" them or such,
they probably aren't the kind of people you want on your friends list anyhow.

Now, having said that, do your best to answer any technical or operational
questions that your co-workers need help with. Within reason, of course.

------
typetypetype
You are looking the wrong direction. You now work for your new employer, not
your old one. As long as you gave appropriate notice to your old employer, you
did your part in being professional. Any resentment coming from them would be
inappropriate and unprofessional.

------
SFJulie
Prioritize your life the way any companies are prioritizing their existence
over yours.

Contracts are what binds you. And I know few companies that extend their
loyalties beyond the contract except maybe the foreign legion.

Be as morally entitled to your company that they have been morally correct to
you if you have a conscience. And what you describe is a death march. You are
probably leaving the company because of a death march. Why would you insist
being nice to a company obviously making their coders' life a hell because of
their management mis-decisions for which they are fatly paid?

Except of course if you are the Légion Étrangère or special forces. In this
case, well, that is their sense of abnegation that makes their reputation and
make them trusted. But I guess you are no special forces sent on a secret
mission where you risk your life.

And that is the reason why they suffer, so we have this kind of rights.

------
iaw
It may help gain perspective if you imagine yourself as an uninvolved third
party hired to consult for a contracting agency: "C".

Let's say this contracting agency has an established contract with a weekly
renewal clause, either party can nullify their relationship at the end of any
given week. C has been working with company "A" for a while now, originally
company "A" represented itself/the work it was asking as something slightly
different but C went along for various reasons that made sense at the time.

After a while, "C" starts becoming a more desirable firm but (for whatever
reason) it cannot expand. A new company, "B", approaches "C" with a contract
that isn't just more lucrative than the existing contract with "A" but has
work that will raise the overall morale of the employees of company "C" in
intangible ways that money can't buy.

So, "C" looks at the roadmap for work with "A" and picks a good date for both
of them for "C" to begin it's contract with "B". "A", doing one of the things
that motivated "C" to leave in the first place, has let deadlines slip in a
way that makes the planned departure timing horrible.

Would you tell company "C" to deprive it's employees for a few more weeks, or
more, because "A" can't manage things properly? Or do you think "C" should
respectfully follow-through with their original plan?

If you weren't emotionally involved I think the answer would be a lot clearer
to you.

------
tptacek
If your employer wants you to assume an obligation to stay, it has a mechanism
to accomplish that: it's called a contract. Naturally, you're not going to
sign a contract that binds you to a job without substantial extra compensation
(in fact: you probably _can 't_ sign a contract that doesn't compensate you
for the obligation).

In the absence of that kind of contract, you have no obligation whatsoever to
stay on the job any longer than you want. So long as you leave gracefully,
give notice, and behave professionally, you can and should switch jobs
whenever it makes sense for you personally.

This is the flip side of at-will employment.

~~~
pm24601
No contract can bind a person to a job -- 14th/15th amendments stop such a
thing.

Only companies can be bound in such a way.

~~~
wolf550e
It's only binding in the sense you lose the extra compensation if you leave.

------
WesternStar
Bus factor. You could die they would still have to go on. Move on.

~~~
sharemywin
I like to think if I won the lotto. But I'm an optimists especially since I
don't play.

~~~
wccrawford
If I won the lotto, I'd follow my conscience and continue working through the
end of whatever project I'm on.

The same can't be said for being hit by a bus.

So I think "bus factor" is a much better name for it.

------
pc86
Flip the scenario. If the company was planning on letting you go, they would
not change that date around based on what events you had going in your
personal life.

Leave, don't feel bad, and no manager worth their title will think it reflects
poorly on you personally or professionally.

------
awinder
Leaving can always be painful for a company, but it happens all the time and
life (usually) goes on. How much knowledge do you have that's central to you
and only you? Have you thought about offering to put in some contracting hours
when it fits your schedule should they need it?

I think there's two ways that a manager could look at this. One way is they
could be personally affronted and take a negative attitude about it. The other
way would be a little more introspective, and understand that you leaving was
a symptom of other problems, and in that case they might be a little saddened
but want to focus more on making changes to prevent something like this
happening again.

At the end of the day though, the way I would look at this is that it's way
more in your best interest to make your new employer happy than to make your
old employer happy. There's a lot more downside to starting off on the wrong
foot with your soon-to-be-current employer, than leaving on the best note
possible with a former employer.

------
khazhou
You should stay. Then when the launch has a problem, the company has one more
developer to scapegoat, and they'll be oblivious to your loyalty as they
humiliate you and your team in the next executive review.

------
Ensorceled
I had a similar situation where I was the project lead. Due to irreconcilable
differences, I tendered my resignation with a ton of lead time basically
saying I'd get the product out the door.

Product management kept adding scope, both features and infrastructure
improvements, to the point where my plenty of notice was not enough to
actually ship and they asked me to stay a bit longer.

I finally just left when my extended time ran out.

I feel a great responsibility to deliver when and what I say I will. I, and
you, should not take responsibility for delivering what other people say we
will.

------
tcfunk
Leave. Companies have no care for their employees, even if they pretend to.
Have equal care for them.

~~~
whyleyc
_Some_ companies. Many other companies actually want to take care of their
staff.

Source: I'm a business owner who likes to take care of my employees.

~~~
justin_oaks
I never see any benefit to anthropomorphizing companies.

Companies can't care for their employees because companies aren't people and
don't have emotions. People in the company may care about you. And you may
care about people in the company.

Once a business gets large enough, the people making the policies can't (or
usually don't) care about you because they don't know you. The people who do
know you can't change the policies.

And that's why I find the idea of loyalty to a company absurd.

------
symkat
If you gave proper notice, leave; join the new company as planned.

They will have more fires, and they'll have people to put them out. It can
suck not finishing something you started, but you made that decision when you
took another job and gave notice.

------
epynonymous
you are a person with integrity who takes pride in his/her work and wants to
see it through, morally, you want to see them launch successfully, but legally
you have no obligation. i suggest you just detach and start at the new place.
the ex-company should of done things to try and keep you earlier, seems kind
of like a drowning person holding onto anything, even at the expense if
someone rlse's life. alternatively, perhaps you still feel there's hope for
this product or company, that i think you need to sort out, but if it's the
former, take off, you've already given them more than you deserve.

~~~
cestith
What's the moral imperative to brush off the new employer on behalf of someone
who made the situation worse than it had to be the first place? I think it's
more sentimentality wanting to stick around than morality. Moral justice is
done by doing what OP's already told both parties.

------
sharemywin
DO NOT RISK YOUR NEW JOB.

~~~
HelloNurse
Now your employer is the new one. You gave the old employer enough notice to
be generous and helpful, it's enough for satisfying moral obligations; if they
are late it isn't your fault.

------
snarfy
"Bad planning on your part does not constitute and emergency on my part."

"Weeks of programming can save hours of planning."

------
justin66
Are you going to have some magic fixes at your disposal for the problems that
manifest when this dumpster fire goes into production? If not, there's no
objective reason to stay.

How your fellow developers feel about you is going to have a lot more to do
with the relationships you've built with them over the months than the timing
of your departure.

------
saluki
Leave as planned.

You don't owe them anything you scheduled leaving when the app was supposed to
be in production. The schedule could keep slipping.

Plus your new employer is where you need to keep things positive. That's where
your future is.

Fellow devs will understand.

You will look back on this in 6 months and be thinking why did I even think
about hanging around any longer.

------
watertom
Does your employer ask employees about their personal circumstances before
terminating employees? I didn't think so.

This is business, not a friendship. Leave on time.

------
dandare
Work on the project will not be done just because it has launched - the
opposite is true, after the launch you will be needed more than ever. Leave
now.

------
itamarst
Well, as far as new job goes: you can ask them if they're OK moving date, and
explain why you want to move it.

If they don't want to move date then they can't blame you for not staying on
to see things go live, since they made the decision. And if it ever comes up
in interview for future job (which is unlikely) you can explain it wasn't your
choice.

So: ask new employer to change date. If they're not OK just start new job as
scheduled, it really doesn't seem like it's your fault since you did your
best. And given that "business dramatically added scope and was changing
requirements and demanding devs work nights/weekends to accommodate" if anyone
is at fault, really, it's management at old company.

------
mnm1
You owe your employer nothing. Leaving now will make a point to them about
their egregious behavior. As a teammate, I would respect that greatly.
Speaking from experience, I can't think of a better time to leave the horror
you describe than now.

------
antirez
IMHO you should ask the new employer and act depending on their reply: they
may appreciate the fact you are indeed so kind to avoid leaving before the
release. However, if this will not be possible, to leave before the release
makes sense to me, the problems after the release will go forward for weeks or
months, one week more one week less is no difference IMHO. I would just say
that I'm at their disposal for email questions if they find some of my code
impenetrable, of course in a best-effort basis.

------
sonofgod
If I were your fellow dev I'd be mildly annoyed that the setbacks meant you
couldn't see launch, and we couldn't celebrate with you, so long as I
understood that your hands were tied. You tried to see it through, but
circumstances dictated otherwise. Communication is key.

As the new employer, I'd be distinctly annoyed if you pushed back a week;
they're probably counting on you and starting to schedule new starter stuff.
That could colour an entire working relationship badly.

Good luck with the new job!

------
kemiller2002
As both a developer and a manager, not bad at all. It's my responsibility to
make sure that everything is covered. I cross train all my people to make sure
that someone leaving will be ok. When people get pulled from my project, etc.,
I spend all the remaining time getting them to teach other people all the
stuff they forgot to show people while they were doing it.

It's your life, and you have to live it. If this is the right move for you,
then you have to take it.

------
fsloth
It's not your responsibility. If I was your coworker I'd say - good for you.
Your relationship with your employer is first and foremost a business
relationship.

If you were irreplaceable to your employer they would have made a counteroffer
when you left your notice.

It's great to have standards, but it's not great to try and save business
owners from themselves.

If you are not irreplaceable then your leaving won't matter, and if you are,
your former employer has learned a valuable lesson.

------
GiorgioG
Look at it from the standpoint that you're no longer to support this company's
bad habit(s) and less like you're abandoning the team.

I left a similar situation 12 years ago and it was the best decision I ever
made and no one blamed me for leaving. A year later the company laid off all
the developers - and it wasn't even a startup, they just decided to stop
building software because it wasn't their core competency.

------
pmontra
Move on to the the new job. You'll be honest to your contract (to all parties)
and won't make your new employee at least a little bit angry.

If I were your boss at the old job I know you'll be leaving anyway and by the
look of the project you're going to be the least of my problems. Maybe I could
ask you if your new company is looking for somebody else. If I were your
fellow developer: same thing.

------
logfromblammo
If I were in that scenario, and I were also an "at will" employee with "PTO"
in lieu of vacation and sick leave, I would have started to take all remaining
PTO upon learning the launch date would be pushed back.

I would take care to work at least 8 hours in any calendar week, and work
another 8 hours after all PTO had been used. After that, I would quit
immediately--at 4:30 PM on that last day--and let my new employer know that I
can now start before the previously arranged date.

The careful use of time off is to maximize the amount of time being paid by
the old employer with the minimum amount of effort wasted in throwing old
tires onto the fire. If you are a salaried exempt employee, you have to be
paid for the full week if you worked any of it. The PTO is just to mimic
vacation, sick leave, and docked pay for not working a predetermined amount of
hours in a week. If you leave with a positive PTO balance, unlike with
vacation, the company does not have to pay you for it. So use it all up. Then
work a bit more, so the company can't argue your quit date was the last day
you actually worked.

Depending on my financial situation and the corporate policies, I might
actually start work at the new employer while burning through my leave at the
old one.

I would also try to find out if my new employer needed any more good people,
and discreetly try to poach my most competent and amicable co-workers on my
way out the door. If you're hitching a ride to flee a sinking ship, it's only
fair to throw some flotation devices behind you as you sail away.

A company that mismanages its tech professionals and its projects doesn't
deserve diddly squat from you. If I were your new boss, I'd be glad that
you're not spineless. That's like wondering whether the next person you date
will think poorly of you for dumping your abusive ex. If they're worth
keeping, they will applaud you for it.

------
ufmace
I have been in a similar situation. I didn't have a hard date of starting a
new job to meet, but I had my own plans and a rough date of when they needed
to get started by.

The project that I was on was originally supposed to ship in December. Then it
slipped to January. People started working 80hr+ weeks, though I said no to
that. In January, there was a big, dramatic meeting with execs giving
speeches, saying we needed to push it back 2 months instead of 1 month to make
sure we had enough time to "do it right". March came and guess what? They
pushed it back again another month. This time so quietly that it was like a
top secret rumor or something. They did finally manage to release it in April,
still as a total mess. I turned in my notice the week after.

Luckily for them, that's about when I was planning to leave anyways. If they
had pushed it back again, I wouldn't have felt any hesitation in leaving
before the release, because I have my own plans that I'm not about to change,
and they have no clue when they're actually going to release.

In your situation, do you have any confidence that they won't keep pushing the
release back for months and months? I wouldn't.

I expect whoever manages or hired you there originally will not like it. But
given that they're responsible for this state of mismanagement and the only
thing that would make them happy is you working killing hours for pocket
change, I wouldn't be worried about what they think. You can bet that anyone
else in the industry who knows of this knows what kind of group they run and
wouldn't hold it against you for leaving like that.

You have a new job to think about, and I'd be a lot more worried about what
your new manager thinks of this. I think they would not like it at all if you
tried to push back your start date to meet the schedule of a mismanaged
project that they have no assurance won't push further back.

------
huherto
It is understandable that you want to stay until the project is released.

Typically this is what happens on bad projects. Developers stay until they
finish the job and then they leave. One of the best ways to evaluate the
success of a project is to see if the team is stronger and more empowered
after the project. If people leave, it says a lot.

------
xrd
You already have your next job, so that's good.

Write down your thoughts and feelings on how things went with this last job.
Then, sleep on it and revisit the next day, trying to remove blame and anger
from it. Your goal should be to give your old employer actionable steps on how
they can improve. They probably are not fully aware of the way it impacted
you. Try to see things from their point of view, be empathetic.

Then, tell the old employer as early as possible that you are leaving. It is
better to know now and be able to make plans for your absence than to know the
day or week before launch.

Be prepared to be yelled at and offered extra pay, etc. If there is something
that could make you stay, write down those things so you are prepared to make
a clear choice and not an emotionally driven (perhaps by guilt or obligation).

Be generous to your old employer and to your new one in this way.

~~~
pm24601
> Your goal should be to give your old employer actionable steps on how they
> can improve

ah - NO!

I agree with the overall intent. But more often than not being "lectured" to
will not be well received.

I do agree with the write-it-down bit because it is important for the career
planning for the future and to learn from past mistakes.

But this info is for your private files. Not shared with anyone and definitely
not on the web.

Everyone wants to believe that they have some secret insight. (Look at
everyone telling Tim Cook how to run Apple) Chances are the "insight" isn't
that insightful - it probably is wrong in either assumptions or conclusions.

------
gorbachev
Any mature development manager would understand turnover is normal. They would
also try and convince you to stay until the launch.

If I were you, I'd just tell some convenient white lie that gives you a good
out without burning bridges.

Your top priority should always be you, not the company nor your co-workers.
Do what's best for you.

------
celticninja
If you have agreed a date with the new employer then you should stick to it.
Your current employer will forget about you the day after you leave and will
not care that you changed your leaving date to accomodate them, well maybe for
a week they will. You want goodwill with your new employer.

------
vineet
It seems like the development process is somewhat waterfall-ish (which most
development often tends towards). With that in mind, I believe that the
original plan - of leaving right after the app goes into production had a
small flaw in it.

In my experience there are often a large set of work that is left when a big
production release happens - from the minor like bug fixes and features that
were deprioritized to the bigger and often more urgent ones like performance
problems and non-validated 'shadow beliefs' being tested.

I would recommend sticking with your original plan, but making sure to spend
the next week or two to mentally prepare the team that they are likely only
just finishing the boring 1/3 of building software and going to start making
an impact in the 'real-world'.

------
tomjen3
When you signed your contract you agreed to provide your employer with the
very best coding you could do and the very best technical solution you can
create to their problems. That is what you owe them.

In return they owe you a salary, some benefits, maybe some options and a
workplace as prescribed by law (OSHA, etc).

That is it. You don't owe them to stay until your project is complete, or any
other date convenient for them, unless your contract say so; they would
certainly not keep you employed for another week to be more convenient for
you, if you were being laid of by them.

So how they feel doesn't matter. It is a business relationship and well, it's
nothing personal. Do what is best for you; if they can't accept or handle
that, that is their problem, not yours.

------
sfifs
If you push back your start date for any reason other than a personal
emergency, the hiring manager will wonder if you are fishing for more offers
and whether you really are an appropriate hire. You don't want to start off a
new work relationship on such a note.

------
joeld42
Not your problem. You didn't change your plans, they moved the deadline. When
that was discussed you should have been sure to mention that is after your
planned/announced departure, if you didn't voice this before be sure to re-
iterate it now. Make your focus on supporting your team in knowledge transfer
and making sure they are confidant they can continue without you, not so much
helping them hit that date. If they ship a few more weeks late but are
successful that's much better than if it blows up and they end up scapegoating
you, but either way you're already out the door.

You can submit a letter of resignation now with your planned end date. That
helps remind that it's not a negotiation.

------
andreasklinger
Objective feedback: Ask yourself what's the likelyhood it will be pushed again
based on previous decisions?

Subjective feedback: Get out. Companies are a group of people doing decisions
- the quality of the decisions you witness is a good approximation of the
company as a whole.

------
halis
My perspective may be skewed, I work for a lot of large companies. So take
note of that.

But in my experience, companies don't care about you, don't owe you anything
and would drop you like a bad habbit tomorrow if they didn't need what you
provide.

It is always reasonable and expected to provide a company with two weeks
notice before leaving.

Furthermore, I make it a point to work harder those last weeks. Put the
headphones on more and blow through stuff. Add documentation, tests, work
extra hours that you don't charge for.

Having said that, once those two weeks are up, your obligation is over. Do
what is best for you, your career and your family and move on with no regrets.

------
kevin_b_er
Did your employer force you to agree that you are under at-will employment?
They've already told you they'll fire you with no notice, no matter how
inconvenient it is for you and without remorse to your financial status.

Why should you show them the same courtesy?

------
implicit_none
You should leave now and not look back. Chances are there will be even more
delays forthcoming and since the dev team has shown a willingness to work
nights/weekends that trend will continue, but with more earnest once paying
customer are on board.

------
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true_religion
Businesses change scope, and requirements slip. This doesn't mean they don't
value you or your work, it just means that human's are terrible at planning
and software planning is worse than playing the lotto sometimes.

You don't owe your current employer anything, and if you leave the due-date
for the software _may_ be pushed back.... but its not as if the business will
fail without you.

Too often we over-estimate our own worth. You're replaceable. With enough time
and effort and yes cash, anyone can be replaced.

This idea doesn't need to be dehumanizing. It rather can be empowering in that
it let's you get over the dubious loyalty people have to employers.

------
lwhalen
They would not think twice about letting you go if they had a business need to
do so. There would be no "Oh, is this time good for his wants/needs/goals?" It
would be "Here's your pink slip, have a nice life". You may even be perp-
walked out of the office in front of your coworkers. To the modern employer
(with very few, but very notable exceptions), you are a cog. Just about any
employer saying otherwise is lying to your face to try and eke out a few more
units of productivity before you burn out/leave/get fired. Conduct yourself
accordingly.

------
ryandrake
It's easy to get attached to your former project/team (and yes, if you've made
the decision to leave they are already former). But, it's not your problem
anymore. Turnover happens in all phases of a project--all companies deal with
it.

Back when I was in my twenties and knew everything, I would always think that
the project would surely crash and burn without me there every day. Of course
it doesn't work that way--one person leaving is almost never going to doom a
project. And even if it does, so what? It's your FORMER project at your FORMER
company. Are you really worried about having some kind of "legacy"?

------
legohead
There are 15 other developers, so what's the problem? I assume you gave 2
weeks notice and such. Whoever pushed the date back should have considered
you, assuming you are an important part of the project. Not your problem. Go.

------
papaver
everyone is replaceable. this is a business. you own them nothing. you've
already done your due diligence and they knew you were going to leave. they
will survive without you and your fellow co-worker will forgive you. i've been
in this position before and i always stayed till the end of the project so i
didn't screw over my co-workers, then i bailed. you've done more than is
required of you already. a lot of people would give their two weeks and run.
the project sounds like a mess. it not going to get any better with you
staying around for a little bit more.

------
DelaneyM
Speaking as a manager, it's better for you to leave before than after.

I'd want to know that the right team is in place to support a product before
releasing it, and once it's out there's no reigning it back in.

------
baq
The Graveyards Are Full of Indispensable Men.

------
muzster
>> How would you feel if a fellow developer left in the circumstances
described?

I would feel happy for you and try my best to make sure we got a good
handover. Your problem is with the management and not your fellow developers.

>> If you were a dev manager or hired this developer, how would you feel about
them leaving in the circumstances described?

I would try and tap into your experience before it leaves the company. The
boat needs steadying - there may be some obvious low lying fruit.

Bad experiences are just as valuable as good experiences.

------
bsvalley
From experience, chances are you will never work with any of these people in
the future. It is possible but the odds are low. So it's not worth it. Even if
you stay until production, leaving for another company will always put you in
a bad position with your previous employer/manager/team. If you re-apply in 2
years at the same company, sending direct emails to your previous collegues
and boss, you'll be shocked about the answers. That'll make you feel like big
loser.

Long story short - in business you always move forward.

------
beat
If you've given notice already, you go. Especially if you'd already timed your
notice to stick around until production, and then _they_ \- not you - moved
the goalpost.

------
clueless123
Repeat after me 10 times: It is not personal, it is business.

Do what you must.

------
dmourati
I would feel sad to lose the teammate (assuming they were good) but happy for
them that they found something else that better met their needs.

Look, we all have individual goals. Sometimes these align and we form a strong
team. Sometimes they diverge and people move on. I believe you are
overanalyzing your role in all of this. Give your two week notice, act like a
professional, and ignore the launch calendar.

------
debt
100% GTFO. Don't burn yourself out. The business people have obviously fucked
up in this equation. Developers are literally the absolute last step in the
process of building software.

If they fuck up at this step then the planning part was basically non-
existent.

If anything GTFO and read up on how business works so you know where you are
on the foodchain and how it's not your fault for wanting to leave before it
hits prod.

------
collyw
Screw them. I have been on "we are going live at the end of the month" since
July (finally happened in December).

These things can linger on for a long time.

------
pklausler
You always get your employer's best current job offer with each paycheck. If
somebody else beats it, then it's just not your problem.

------
monksy
Don't take this the wrong way. But you would be incredibly stupid to delay any
longer on switching companies.

1\. The current company doesn't respect you. Plus with that kind of
management: they would replace you if they wanted.

2\. Don't screw over a relationship at the start. You're going to have a bad
future with that company if you do that. They won't understand or care why you
stayed longer.

------
hkmurakami
It happens. If you like/respect your engineering colleagues, give them your
email telling them you're there to help during launch.

~~~
MrMatt
Be careful if you decide to do this. If you help out & don't have a consulting
agreement / contract in place + the correct insurance, etc... then you may
find yourself on the hook for any problems that can be pinned on the work you
do after you leave.

~~~
jdormit
I would be very surprised if they let you write code for them without a
contract in place. IANAL, but I believe that technically code you write in
your own time is your IP unless you've signed a contract saying otherwise.

~~~
MrMatt
Yeah, that'd be expected (release of IP etc) however, if you're doing this out
of a sense of duty to your ex-colleagues, and the business / management have
shown a lack of respect for you up to this point, then I wouldn't be surprised
if you see scapegoating.

My point was more that I've seen lots of problems attributed to the last
engineer out of the door in the places I've worked. If liability isn't taken
care of (sometimes there is a separate contract for liability & scope of work
apart from the attribution of IP), and you're doing work to "do the right
thing" then it may well be a case of "no good deed goes unpunished".

~~~
jdormit
I'm just starting out in my software career - hopefully I will be able to
avoid these types of situations!

------
edburdo
I'm not in your shoes, so this is all theory.

I'm with you in that I'd prefer to stay to see it into production. However,
you have a commitment to your employer in that you agreed to start on Date X.

So, I see two options.

1) Explain to your new employer why you think you should delay starting. Go
with what they say.

2) Explain to your current employer that the dates are already set, and that
you need to leave.

------
mancerayder
Offer to be available in the evenings and weekends for a period of a month,
BUT with a retainer for that month and an hourly billing. Preface all this by
saying you'd love to help out and you it's just that you couldn't pass up the
other opportunity.

Stay positive no matter what.

Source: have seen very similar situations and I've been a manager in one.

------
garganzol
As an employer, I am always cautious of guys who was tossed into project and
then ran away. Been there, done that. I hired such a guy once, and soon
regretted it a lot: not only he was not responsible enough, he only worked 3
months and then jumped away to another job without giving any prior notice.
Just my 2 cents from another side of the moon.

------
peterkelly
If it's been pushed back once, it'll be pushed back at least a second time
(maybe more). Just get the hell out of there.

------
Beltiras
What do the contracts state? Can you leave without legal consequences? Do you
need to call a lawyer to confirm? Is there a union rep you can turn to? The
way you describe it the deployment might turn into a tire fire. I'd rather not
be there when that happens personally. I would need to comply with my legal
requirements nontheless.

------
bryanlarsen
I don't see any substantial difference leaving before deployment or the day
after. From the sounds of the organization, there are going to be tons of
emergencies and problems that are going to become visible only after
deployment.

Either stay until the product is deployed and all the worst fires are put out
(aka several months from now) or leave now.

------
taqwasd1
Here's some honest/harsh reality.

Forget the company and product. You've put in your time and effort. The launch
date and push back was outside of your control.

Don't let anyone or anything "guilt" you into thinking this is somehow in your
control or that your input matters at all.

You have a new job, so move on and forget it.

------
throwawayc1
Leave. It's business not personal. And after you leave, you'll be amazed how
correct that decision was!

------
new299
It's fine, they've had enough time to replace you.

However, why not offer to consult on any production issues that they have (at
a reasonable hourly rate). As long as it's done in your own time, and it
doesn't violate any non-compete you might have in general this shouldn't be an
issue.

------
conatus
I've always seen projects I've been involved with off before leaving.

Most employers I have worked with have been fine with pushing dates back - it
shows your dedication as an engineer. In my view. It also prevents you burning
bridges with current colleagues who you would wish to work with in future.

------
stuartcw
Once you decide to leave and take a new job your allegiance is now to your
future employer. My only regret in leaving jobs has been not taking all my
holidays and staying too long after deciding to leave. If you do feel bad
about leaving then c.f. Stockholm Syndrome.

------
Wonton56
Why is this even a problem? The way I see it you have already broken a
agreement with your new employer, and now you are considering breaking it
again?

I understand that your current project may need your attention. But that is a
result of mismanagement, and two wrongs won't make a right!

------
muse900
If it was me personally, I'd think that people come and go all the time.

You're on to continue with your life and grab a new opportunity and I'd wish
you well on whatever you do, and I'd thank and appreciate that you worked
weekends and nights to make the app happen.

------
jjmiv
I agree with most of the points presented here. your project will probably be
delayed again.

\- this mess will appear to your future employers as to why you want to leave.

\- although i'm sure your fellow devs will not be happy, they should
understand your reasons and respect your choice.

------
titraprutr
This is not your fault that the launch date has been pushed back. You already
made arrangements with the other company so I'd stick to the plan. It's your
current employer, not you, who should be dealing the consequences of poor
management.

------
mathattack
My 2 cents...

1) If you leave a week before production, you will permanently damage your
relationship with your coworkers and manager. You will also lose the ability
to rightfully say, "X was a mess, and I drove the effort to turn it around and
get it live"

2) #1 matters to a lot of people. When you apply for jobs 3 or 5 years from
now, people will check for back channels on your performance.

3) If you're being abused past your breaking point, 1 and 2 don't matter. But
you have to decide. A few months of stress happens in lots of jobs. A few
years of stress isn't. You have to decide if it's really just 1 week.

4) The decision also depends on how you give notice. If you are giving notice
before the date slips, then you have some negotiating room with your employer.
If you hand in notice post-slip, it's tougher.

5) Nobody is irreplaceable. They will get by ok without you.

------
throwaway413
I was building a platform for a funded startup last year with a few other
cofounders. Our original timeline we promised investors was to launch April
1st. We postponed for a week too.

Then a month. Then another.

I left in August. They are still building. Haven't launched yet.

------
rglover
If there's not a contract or some other legal obligation binding you, walk
away.

------
sparrish
‘Leave the Gun. Take the Cannoli,’ It's not personal, it's just business.

------
knodi
You need to look at your future more with the new employer than your old
employer.

------
alistairSH
Leave. You already did the "nice" thing by attempting to schedule around the
release. If the project wasn't a shit-show, I'd probably say otherwise, but
given your situation, no reason to stay.

------
romanovcode
Company does not own you, you can leave whenever you feel like (obviously need
to stay your notice period which is stated in contract).

If you want to leave you should leave. If I was your co-worker I probably
would not care much.

------
draw_down
In my opinion that's a BS guilt tactic that helps to keep people in crappy
work situations. It isn't your fault if management can't keep a workplace that
can stand to lose a person.

------
ionised
> Business dramatically added scope and was changing requirements and
> demanding devs work nights/weekends to accommodate.

Any employer ever demanded this from me, I'd be straight out of the door.

------
nrjdhsbsid
It's like going to battle in a ship that's already on fire. Get out as soon as
you can, if it's a huge struggle to make it to launch things are just going to
get worse

------
issa
If I'm understanding correctly, you gave notice. Regardless of slipping
production schedules or other issues, you have no responsibility to stay
longer than your two weeks.

Enjoy the new job!

------
mikeash
If you push your start date back one week, you'll please your previous
employer at the cost of displeasing your new employer. Why would that tradeoff
be at all worthwhile?

------
tomc1985
Not your fault management is incompetent. You owe them nothing.

------
choward
That would be a great question to ask these guys:
[https://softskills.audio/](https://softskills.audio/)

------
anovikov
Leave now; if stuff is broken before launch it will be a lot more so after
launch, if you don't like the way it is now you will absolutely hate it later.

------
amelius
Did you already communicate that you are going to leave?

------
tln
Better to keep your promise to the new company.

Good luck at the new job

------
kdamken
Not your problem. That employer clearly doesn't care about you, why should you
care about them? Move on to your new position.

------
dgrealy
I'm not going to tell you what you should do, especially without knowing the
details of the situation, but it's probably helpful to hear a third party's
description of what your options were 3 weeks ago, if you ever find yourself
in the same position again:

 _The leave option :_ This area is always hot and there are a lot of jobs, so
if you're unhappy you can find another position rapidly. Life is short. If
you're being jerked around go ahead and find something else where that is
going to be less likely. Greener pastures (usually) exist in this land of
abundance.

 _The stay option :_ Staying for a month after production shows character and
is something you can learn A LOT from. Maybe you've been to production many
times before but there is always something to learn, even when it's a flaming
shit-show. Especially when it is. The period of moving into prod is often
rough, and sometimes only the strong pull through it. Even if you stay for
only a month, you will be getting valuable experience and stories to tell.
Stories that are actually most valuable when told in your next interview, and
every subsequent interview in your career. Think about it from a hiring
manager's perspective. Would you rather hear a story about an employee who had
gripes with the team and leadership but who was hungry for special experience
and felt a duty to help during the first month of production? Or would you
rather hear a story about an employee who had those gripes and left as soon as
prod was launched, when the team is in a bit of a critical point. It's true
that when you get to prod, the bulk of the initial development work is done
... but there is a substantial chunk left which is making sure it stays
propped up when it falls over in all of the various ways it usually does in
the first month. The "story" of staying just for 1 month is definitely better.
It's less comfortable but rewards more experience and anecdotes. However, make
sure you do get out soon if you recognize a need to do so.

As for your current situation, I would say it shows some character that you
want to help through with the push to prod. I would say ask, and if both
employers are agreeable then do it. But if either employer doesn't like the
idea much, then don't push hard for it. Just start your new job. Employer #1
might not like the idea much either. Once it's clear that someone is exiting
sometimes it's best to not have them mingling very much. On the other side, if
they are really eager to have you stay an additional week when they know you
have already signed an offer with employer #2 and have a start date, they
might not have your best interests in mind, which sounds like it is in line
with your thoughts about them.

------
Animats
Leave as scheduled. If your existing employer desperately needs you later,
offer to consult at some very high rate.

------
watertom
Would your company ask about your personal circumstances before terminating
your employment?

This is business, not a friendship.

------
justbaker
LEAVE. You have made the best out of development disorganization within your
current employer.

------
borplk
My god. Just leave.

It's not big deal and they'll survive just fine.

Do not push back the new job even more.

------
gt2
Keep your commitment to the new employer, it's important.

Possibly offer to consult for the previous employer, and/or simply let them
know they can contact you if there's something they can't figure out.

Don't expect to be contacted -- they have 14 other developers which is far
more than many projects that people leave.

------
otikik
Leave. Do as much as you can, and apologize if you feel you should. But leave.

------
eonw
business is business, i wouldnt be mad/bitter at a co-worker for attempting to
better themselves and leave a bad situation for one they thought to be better.

------
mcheshier
You gave notice. You're done.

------
gm-conspiracy
Are you certain it is only a week?

------
mdip
A lot of folks are focusing on your circumstances at your former job (work not
being valued, etc), but I don't find that terribly relevant given the way
you've handled leaving your former position.

> How would you feel if a fellow developer left in the circumstances
> described?

About you, personally? Probably a little jealous, but I wouldn't feel that you
have done something wrong. It _sounds_ like you gave adequate notice and
planned on leaving one week prior to it going production. You then extended
that and even that didn't work out. Assuming you're being paid more at this
future employer, you've accepted a financial loss for the sake of your team.
That's _way_ more than most people do in your circumstances. Deadlines slip,
sometimes, but some deadlines cannot be avoided. You made a commitment to
another employer, asked for and received an extension to your start date, and
now you're at the point where you need to live up to that commitment.

> If you were a dev manager or hired this developer, how would you feel about
> them leaving in the circumstances described?

You weren't clear on which dev manager (the new one who just hired you or the
one which you're leaving) so here's my thoughts: As your former dev manager,
I'd be perfectly fine with this for the reasons I indicated, above. There's
only so much that I can expect from you and you've already gone further than
most. As for your future dev manager, I'm pleased that you cared enough about
your former job (and I probably know that you already weren't happy with this
project and you _still_ went over and above to try to leave them in the right
position). I'm happy knowing that you showed dedication to a "bad project"
(and we have bad projects here, too) and am looking forward to having someone
on the team with that level of commitment.

Frankly, you already did everything I would have done, here. I would have told
my future employer that I accepted the position with a firm start date, and
that I will live up to that commitment, however, an important project where I
am a key member slipped and would ask for another week to ensure I'm leaving
my former employer in a good place (implying dedication and commitment that
can be expected from me in my future position). If accepted (and it almost
certainly would be), I would work to that date and leave regardless of the
project state (working as many hours as required to push through and make it
happen -- but we all know that isn't a guarantee). Accept that you've done the
right thing and keep your commitment with your future employer. Also, keep in
mind, that your former employer almost certainly would not give you this level
of commitment if your position were eliminated.

------
ArkyBeagle
Don't look back.

------
jmahyoung
Offer to stay the extra 2 weeks or so and extend our your departure date. Paid
time. It's good for your references and will leave you with goodwill at the
company. That can come in handy if you cross paths again with your team at
different company. Plus you get to build something that's not a tire fire
train wreck.

~~~
cestith
I respectfully disagree. It's not good for references, overall, to break a
promise to a new employer on behalf of a former employer. It's the old
employer, not OP, who moved back the launch date of this project.

The old employer had the notice on file. It should have been weighed into
their determination of when to launch. It may have been. They may even have
decided since OP was so invaluable that no matter when OP leaves they need one
week extra to determine who is responsible to cover for OP's knowledge before
they go to production. It is unfair to the new employer to drag out starting
because the old employer is unreliable.

