

Ask YC: I just got laid off, and I have some startup dreams. - rtf

Some background: I graduated college a little over a year ago with an Economics BA. I have the start of a career in game development; I did level design and scripting on a work-for-hire console license, which went six months from contract to ship. (Not a sane schedule.) There was stress, long hours, a month of working weekends, but I'm fine now; and the game shipped.<p>Since then the company hasn't gotten new gigs to support its staffing, so they had to let me go. Both the founders said they'd have me back in a heartbeat; I can probably find a job in gaming again with some time. I'm also working on some open source game tech ( http://gamesc.sourceforge.net/ ) - If I had to point to one technical skill I'm best at, coding is probably it.<p>However, starting a startup intrigues me more than game projects, and this seems like the time to consider it seriously...but although I'm in the Bay Area, I don't have connections in the startup world, and I really want to tap into that experience. Also, being deeply into games, I'd like to stick to that topic for business ideas. I don't know if I could buy into any old web app. Working on any old game is better, but only a little bit. I'm really keen on finding something innovative to do in the sector(business-wise) and a team to do it with; something that's really disruptive. I think it's possible. But I don't think I can do it alone.<p>I guess my question would be: What would be the right steps to take, to meet the kinds of people I want to meet that would work together on this kind of startup? Staying in the industry <i>might</i> be the way to meet the people I need. But I'm not convinced it's the best, or the only option.
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iamelgringo
I just got home from the Hackers and Founders Meetup 20 minutes ago. And, I
started the group because I wanted the exact same thing: To hang out and talk
with people who are serious about founding startups.

We get together in the Bay Area every two weeks to hang out, have a tasty
beverage and talk about startups, the web, stuff we read on Hacker News,
etc...

We've had between 20-30 attendee's the past few meetups, and people really
seem to enjoy it.

Our next get-together is going to be a little different. The founders of
Heysan and Snipd have agreed to give a presentation. So, there will be a 1-1/2
hour presentation and we'll be adjourning to the hotel bar after that for
socializing.

Anyway, the address for the meetup is <http://www.hackersandfounders.com>

If you're interested, stop by or drop me a line. I'll buy you a drink.

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jacobscott
Does anyone have a good writeup somewhere of all such (public) groups? I trust
HN pointers/analysis over just searching meetup. I'm relatively new to the
valley, it would be nice to figure out what part of the technology social
network I fit best with.

~~~
iamelgringo
A lot of it depends on what you're interested in. There are Meetup groups for
most technologies out there: Rails, MySQL, LAMP. And, then there are Web 2.0
groups, "New Tech" meetups, general entrepreneur groups and business groups.
Each one tends to have a focus and a slant. Some are sponsored, some aren't.

The Hackers and Founders group I host tends have about 1/3 to 1/2 of members
read Hacker News on a regular basis. I'm also running it to simply build
community. I'm not getting any financial return on the deal. I'm really just
doing it to get to know other Hackers and Founders.

There are also non-Meetup.com groups like super happy dev house:
<http://superhappydevhouse.org/> and various and sundry Tech Crunch get-
togethers, Digg parties, etc...

My advice would be to try a couple out. Worst case scenario, you're out a
couple hours of your time.

~~~
rtf
When I got my game gig it was through demonstrating work at a Meetup group(San
Francisco Game Developers), so I know this is a good place to start. I'm
planning to show for as many of these events as I can.

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maxklein
If you like games, then do games, don't do web apps. Web apps are good for
stuff that needs the web, but for stuff for whom the web is just a nice thing,
but not neccessary, web apps are often not the best solution. It's easier to
sell desktop software than web software.

And another important thing: Don't start a business from a position where you
have little money. It will make you cut corners for the sake of making money,
and you will not like your product as much as if you had time to really craft
it out. So I advice you to find a job which is stable and does not take too
much time, then develop your game on the side.

Game programming takes looooong, and nobody will finance you while you try to
make a game. Get a job, do it on the side. It's the adult thing to do. Anyone
who tells you to quit everything you have and play the lottery with your life
savings probably has something to gain by you doing this.

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guit
Go work for a start up. It's the best place to meet and learn from talented
developers, founders, VCs, well-connected board members, etc. Build and keep
those relationships.

Brainstorm ideas and then sleep on them.

Hack on the weekends.

And then when you're ready, make your move.

~~~
wastedbrains
I think this is good advice if I would have known more about the startup world
I would have worked at a startup out of college instead of big business.

If you are not opposed to moving there is a great opportunity to work with
some cool startups in Boulder, CO

<http://boulder.me/>

Shameless plug, I am in Boulder. My startup is a bit to small to be a part of
Boulder.Me, but I know a bunch of the teams involved and it is really cool.

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Jaykyburz
pffft.. screw startups, go work with the best people in the business on one of
the best projects out there, Bioshock 2. 2K Marin are looking for level
designers.

<http://www.2kmarin.com/>

tell em Jay from 2K Aus sent ya.

~~~
jyu
Given your current position, this is really sound advice. The team behind
Bioshock was innovative, relatively small, and they made an incredible impact
on the gaming world.

As many before me have said, it's better to start a start up when the
opportunity and market timing are right, not when your timing is right. In the
mean time, working with a bunch of performers with a proven track record isn't
a bad alternative.

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nuggien
I'd get another day job while I come up with an idea for a startup. Good ideas
don't come by that easily.

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trevelyan
Why is this modded down? I agree.

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davidw
Mixing the job suggestion (which is probably good) with the idea suggestion
(something people are biased against: execution vs ideas). alaskamiller's
comment below/above is more practical in terms of the job.

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shawndrost
Start going to the local hacking/entrepreneurship/etc meetups, there're
probably 4-6 per week in your area. meetup.org

~~~
danielh
I second that. Meetups are the best way to get in touch with like-minded and
interesting people.

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immad
This post is a good start. Contact me, we might be able to work together. Or I
will give you tips anyway.

My email is i.akhund (at) gmail (dot) com

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hbien
Hey rtf, I'm in the Bay Area too. There are _tons_ of meet ups, hackfests, and
user group meetings you can go to.

SupperHappyDevHouse is coming up this Saturday (Oct 3rd) and the Hackers &
Founders meetup is Oct 16th.

Usually the goal of these meetings isn't to find another founder though, it's
just to have fun by hanging out and sharing interesting ideas w/ like minded
people.

I think it might be a good place to start though.

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tstegart
You might want to try your hand at iPhone games. There's currently a lot of
room in the industry for new players. It has low barriers to entry, yet people
are seeing a huge return on investments, and you can get projects out the door
in a smaller time frame than most games take to develop and market. To me, it
seems like the perfect space for a new business with little capital and lots
of skill. I'd even say its perfectly suited to you. You can learn a new
language and practically make yourself golden when it comes to being employed
if your venture doesn't work out, because there's huge demand for iPhone
programmers.

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bootload
_"... the game shipped ..."_

Bummer. This highlights a problem making games. Revenue is project based and a
bit like farming a crop. Miss the schedule, a hardware release, market and you
don't get paid as much.

 _"... What would be the right steps to take, to meet the kinds of people I
want to meet that would work together on this kind of startup? ... I'm in the
Bay Area ..."_

A job for "Gabriel Weinberg's" AskYC Archive ~
<http://www.gabrielweinberg.com/startupswiki/Ask_YC_Archive> look under
Founders

~~~
spoiledtechie
Thank you for this Link!!!!

It is a huge amount of information that I really need. Thank you.

(coming from a guy who also wants to start up a business)

Thank you.

~~~
bootload
_"... Thank you for this Link!!!! ... It is a huge amount of information that
I really need. ..."_

Save the thanks for Gabriel for the "Best-Of" links and the Askyc team for
comments search & where I go to find things. They are really adding a great
deal of value.

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AlexTheFounder
rtf, while you call your startup ideas "startup dreams", don't go for it. Go
for it only when you start calling it "passion" and know where to start

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rtf
Thanks for your comments, everyone. I'll start following up on specific
comments shortly, but some general thoughts:

My reasons for wanting to go for a new business have to do with the calcified
nature of the development process; now that I've "seen the elephant" in this
side of the business it's all much less interesting, and it won't get better
just by changing my employer. It won't get better by going indie, even. I want
to go beyond shipping products and find the next level - the franchise, the
organization, whatever term might apply.

So in that sense I'm not worried about the product idea, just the process -
the potential of changing and improving it. That's where I think the startup
world has something to offer.

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vaksel
Well you can try doing one of those mobwars type games. Some of them are
profitable, just come up with a good idea, and make some good images(most of
them have crappy looking images).

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alaskamiller
Do you have money saved up? If so budget that to work on your ideas and
network for 3 to 5 months. If not, get another job.

Networking in the valley is not that hard. You can establish a pretty decent
network within just a few weeks. My email is alaska.miller@gmail.com, I'm in
Cupertino, let's get in touch.

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gabrielleydon
rtf whats your email?

~~~
rtf
jhofmann@321f.net

