
Why Python? - alexk
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3882
======
jimbokun
"Old LISPer that I am, I also looked at various current dialects of Lisp and
Scheme—but, as is historically usual for Lisp, lots of clever design was
rendered almost useless by scanty or nonexistent documentation, incomplete
access to POSIX/UNIX facilities, and a small but nevertheless deeply
fragmented user community."

I find this still a pretty accurate assessment of the world of Lisp, 8 years
on. I'm keeping an eye on Clojure, though, as a potential break in this
pattern.

~~~
KirinDave
As does MzScheme.

This rift and indecision in lisp implementations only exists as long as we
continue to allow it. If people just start hacking and using a system in
larger numbers, it'll grow. The world is _so ripe_ for the next big language
to be Scheme.

~~~
j2d2
_If people just start hacking and using a system in larger numbers, it'll
grow._

 _If_ being the magic word...

 _The world is so ripe for the next big language to be Scheme._

Why do you say that? Scheme is not new. Something radical would have to happen
to make it popular out of nowhere.

~~~
KirinDave
What's new is where a lot of independent programmers are. Tons of people are
coming off of a Ruby and Python high and wondering where the cutting edge is
going.

Scheme is positioned to be that next edge to cut with. It's very much like
Python and Ruby, with similar usage properties and library distribution
practices. But at the same time it's got a simpler core and a more powerful
syntax layer.

If we can just get people to stop discriminating against parenthesis and maybe
get a nice web framework and a good deployment tool, we could see an explosion
of usage in the Scehme world that inflates the space much like what happens
with Ruby.

I yearn for the day when using Scheme professionally is No Big Deal.

~~~
j2d2
_What's new is where a lot of independent programmers are._

What's necessary is for something very practical to require scheme. Ruby would
still be a hobbyists language if Rails didn't come along. Perhaps arc could
help here in the future but even the scheme community isn't totally amped on
arc and therefore not rallying behind it.

Erlang seems better suited to be the next big lang than scheme. It has already
found it's way into some of the big names like facebook and amazon,
demonstrating practical importance, while solving problems that are still
_hard_ in other languages. _cough_ concurrency...

------
ii
_Python could then evaluate the fetchmail --configdump output and have the
configuration available as the value of the variable “fetchmail”._

Never ever do it. Python has very good parsers now. Using "eval" is crazy.
Python is _not_ just a scripting language like JavaScript, it has a full power
of C under the hood, thus it's evaluation must be restricted. Or someone will
set your or your client's “fetchmail” environment variable to
'__import__('os').remove(...'.

------
silentbicycle
You may want more recent resources about Python, because Python has changed
significantly since 1997.

Mark Pilgrim's book _Dive Into Python_ (Also free online at
<http://diveintopython.org>) is a pretty good intro to the language, and does
a good job of exploring its strengths.

(And, seriously, people. #1?)

------
dill_day
I didn't finish it. I browsed the author's website a little. He seems grossly
arrogant.

~~~
j2d2
First experience with ESR?

Check out the cathedral and the bazaar.

[http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-
bazaar/cathedral...](http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-
bazaar/cathedral-bazaar/)

~~~
jrockway
That's crap. Check out his sex tips for geeks!

<http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/sextips/>

~~~
ptn
The Cathy lady he asks for opinions is his wife. Not totally unbiased, then.

~~~
jrockway
Not to mention that one person's opinion is _not_ data. The best way to find
out what _your_ partner wants is either to ask or experiment. Much better than
listening to ESR. :)

------
mtts
Look, there's merit to this article, but if it's really necessary to post it
to the front page of Hacker News, I'm sure SICP deserves mention as well.

~~~
jacobscott
Like a HN obSICP, equivalent to 1. X, 2. ??? 3. Profit on /.?

------
jmtulloss
This is pretty old, but as an avid Python advocate, it's always worth a re-
read.

~~~
thomasmallen
"Python advocate"...pft.

I'm an advocate of open source tools. Who has the time or the motivation to be
an advocate for one specific technology unless they're developing it
themselves?

Don't get me wrong, I use Python on an almost daily basis and like the
language. But the only "advocacy" I practice is by example.

~~~
jmtulloss
Haha, fine, an avid Python fan.

In my world, which is dominated by C, C++, and Java, advocating agile
technologies can be well worth my time.

~~~
thomasmallen
I respect that. I think that the Ruby guys have bestowed upon me a healthy
knee-jerk reaction to anything resembling fanboyism.

~~~
jmtulloss
Yeah, anytime I see "RoR", my eyes narrow.

------
gaius
_write compilers and interpreters for fun_

Yet I do not know a single person who uses an ESR language, nor any even semi-
mainstream language that is influenced by his ideas. The only thing he has
IIRC is /etc/termcap. Someone's gotta do it, but doing it doesn't make him an
authority on anything...

------
jcapote
Good question.

------
kingkongrevenge
ESR is a poseur.

~~~
mroman
What makes you say that?

~~~
gaius
Because he is an observer of hacker culture but writes as if he is a
participant.

~~~
silentbicycle
He's definitely a participant, both in terms of software (off the top of my
head: fetchmail, several contributions to Linux, Emacs, and Nethack) and tech
books (The Art of Unix Programming, some of Learning GNU Emacs, others).

If anything, the problem with ESR is that he considers himself an expert on
explaining hacker culture to outsiders, yet tends to excessively project his
own values, politics, etc. on it when doing so.

~~~
gaius
Perhaps instead of "a participant" I should have said "as if he is
representative of hackers" which manifestly he isn't.

Now excuse me, I'm going to play my flute for a bit, then go and shoot
something, and maybe write some more of my sex-advice column :-P

~~~
mroman
The concept that any one individual could be representative of hackers is
fallacious, and neither does ESR purport to be representative of hackers, even
though many of his views and his style of reasoning are indeed common amongst
hackers.

------
kilowatt
Why not Python?

    
    
      - CPython
      - CPython
      - did I mention the GIL and the sub-performing interpreter? guess I did.
      - CPython

~~~
thomasmallen
Next time I'm in a debate, I'll repeat my only point tersely and hope nobody
notices.

~~~
kilowatt
It's really the only knock I have against Python ;/

