
DB-19: Resurrecting an Obsolete Connector (2016) - spamizbad
https://www.bigmessowires.com/2016/06/04/db-19-resurrecting-an-obsolete-connector/
======
ncmncm
There were never DB-9 connectors; they were DE-9s.

The "DB-this" and "DB-that" naming originated by ignorant analogy with the
(correctly-named) DB-25 connectors that the DE-9s were replacing. Hint: The
letter after the D is the size. DBs had room for two rows of 12 and 13 pins on
1/10 inch centers, on down to DE with room for only 4 and 5 pins with that
spacing. Later, the DE shell was used with closer spacing for three rows of
pins, for video monitor cables.

Once enough ignorant people took to calling them DB-9 and trying to buy them
by that name, the vendors started hawking them that way.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature#DE-9](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature#DE-9)

~~~
dfox
One thing of note is that the pins are not exactly on 1/10 inch centers, the
spacing is slightly larger than that.

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PhasmaFelis
> _“But wait!” says the well-intentioned blog reader, “this web site over here
> has DB-19P connectors for sale right now!” They may claim to have them, but
> trust me, they don’t. Electronics parts suppliers seem to make a habit of
> listing available items that aren’t actually available, whether out of
> laziness or as an intentional bait-and-switch, I’m not sure. But if you call
> them or try to actually order the parts, you’ll find they don’t exist._

This reminds me of _Things I Won 't Work With_ mentioning Chinese chemical
supply houses that list prices for a gallon of a specific chemical, when there
probably hasn't been that much made in all of human history together, and if
it _were_ made and brought together in one place, the resulting crater would
be visible on Google Earth.

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mumblemumble
Brings back memories. Years ago, I came across a need for a DB-19 cable and
had trouble sourcing one at a reasonable price.

I arrived at a somewhat less robust solution which involved a DB-25 cable and
a hack saw.

~~~
m0xte
That’s not quite as ugly as a serial cable in a production dialup mail pick up
box I found once. Someone was clearly missing a DB25-DB9 cable for the modem
but had a DB9 shell floating around. They made a cable with some telephone
wire, stripped the ends, folded them and rammed them into the DB25 connector
holes on the modem. The other end was solder buckets and they did the same and
crimped the thing. It worked. Until it didn’t. Then the modem and the cable
had to be replaced because the connector was buggered.

This of course failed and I discovered the situation on Friday at 5:30pm just
as the local Maplin had shut.

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jacobush
Amiga uses the DB-23 for monitor, I don't believe it's made anymore, however,
it appears you can still order it. It's not as unusual yet as the DB-19.

(And now that you can order, for the first time, a new Amiga with an open
source operating system, you don't need the DB-23 anymore, it uses HDMI.
Vampire v4 stand alone. No affiliation, just fascinated.)

~~~
blue1
Where? Isn’t V4 still unreleased?

~~~
vidarh
It's pre-order only so far I think. Here:

[http://apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=1&note=23461](http://apollo-
core.com/knowledge.php?b=1&note=23461)

There was a good article about it here that was on HN a few days ago:

[https://www.forbes.com/sites/marcochiappetta/2019/10/22/the-...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/marcochiappetta/2019/10/22/the-
next-generation-amiga-that-never-materialized-just-went-up-for-pre-
order/#6020370950de)

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bewilderbeast
The Atari ST line of computers also use DB-19 connectors for their external
ACSI interface, usually used for connecting hard disk drives. ACSI is Atari
Computer Systems Interface, similar to SCSI.

~~~
chiph
Here's a photo of a 520. It's the "Hard Disk" port all the way on the right.

[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Rear_por...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Rear_ports_of_original_Atari_520ST_%28crop_and_filter%29.jpg)

It was possible to hand-make a replacement for Atari's external floppy drive
(round DIN connector on the right) because Atari wanted too much money for
theirs. Having two floppies meant that compiling went from several disk-swaps
to no-swap happiness.

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iso-8859-1
The project this was made for (FloppyEmu) is awesome:
[https://www.bigmessowires.com/floppy-
emu/](https://www.bigmessowires.com/floppy-emu/)

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sheinsheish
The Mackie Onyx 1640
[https://intranet.bloomu.edu/documents/tech/ims/Manuals/Macki...](https://intranet.bloomu.edu/documents/tech/ims/Manuals/MackieOnyx1640StudioMixer.pdf)
has two DB25 connectors.

~~~
ken
It _had_ two DB25 connectors. That's an old analog mixer from 2004. The Mackie
webpage doesn't even list products that old.

Of course, their current digital mixers don't have any D-shell connectors.

~~~
scarecrowbob
Well, it's still around, that's for sure...

[https://apogeedigital.com/products/symphony-
io/configuration...](https://apogeedigital.com/products/symphony-
io/configurations/dante-16x16)

I mean, I can't afford $5K for that, but it's there.

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julienfr112
What would the world look like without China ? There is literally nowhere else
to go to build something today...

~~~
jdashg
If it weren't for China, someone else would be building these. Take China away
instantaneously, and there'd be problems. But the reason there's no where else
to build something like this today is because China does it better[1]. Without
China, (and with enough time) it'd be someone else.

[1]: According to market forces.

~~~
julienfr112
The problem is "enough time" can be a generation. For example, France didn't
build any nuclear power plants for two decade, and when it finaly build a new
one (EPR) it takes three time more time an money than expected, because no one
no anything anyymore on building a nuclear power plant in France ....

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unixhero
The Amiga uses (it's still alive! DB23 for its RGB signal. I have a hacksawed
connector which works fine :)

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knolax
Makes me wonder how conservation work in museums is going to be done on
artefacts that were industrially manufactured. Imagine 200 years from now
somebody has to repair an Apple II with a rusted out DB-19 port, where are
they going to find the mechanical drawings and would the machines needed to
make new ports even exist still? My hope is that 3D printing matures in time
for this to not be as a big if a problem.

~~~
simcop2387
For a serious look at this exact phenomenon I'd highly recommend the Apollo
AGC restoration done by Curious Marc and others for the 50th anniversary. They
had to redesign and rebuild a few connectors down to the pins to actually
restore things. There's also a lot of other crazy stuff they had to do,
including putting some of the electrical modules in a milling machine and
drilling them out to replace bad parts.

[https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-_93BVApb59FWrLZfdli...](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-_93BVApb59FWrLZfdlisi_x7-Ut_-w7)

particularly parts 10-13 I believe are where the pins and contacts come into
play.

~~~
octorian
Except Marc's team actually had highly detailed mechanical drawings of those
parts, so the only hard part was finding someone who could manufacture them.
Thankfully they had connections in that area.

~~~
simcop2387
Yea, that definitely made things immensely simpler but it's still a good
reference for seeing what kind of problems happen. I'd also imagine that for
most connectors you aren't going to need nearly as robust or detailed drawings
or data about them to make something that will work. In this case they also
wanted something that would mate up perfectly without any possibility of
damage or excess wear on the connectors.

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magduf
For a problem like this, I wonder if it would be easier to just make a
replacement cable for the DB-19 connector on the computer itself, which
replaces the external DB-19 with some other more-common connector (along with
the cable that goes to the PCB inside), and then the device you're selling
uses a cable that matches that.

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rbanffy
I wasn't aware the Atari ST's used those. I remember the 8-bits one had a
similar, but just different enough connector for its SIO expansion bus.

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verdverm
Why does this post not have upvoting buttons?

~~~
drivers99
You probably already upvoted (or downvoted, accidentally?) it. If it says
"unvote" under the link you can click it to get them back.

~~~
verdverm
I have no unvote either

~~~
verdverm
Just for this post, see it occasionally. I know it's a thing for YC hiring
posts, but I've seen this happen and was wondering the rules that apply

~~~
verdverm
There are three of them like this on the front page for me now. I upvoted
another and it appears normally.

A/B testing?

