
OpenBSD: Use the space freed up by sparc and zaurus to import LLVM - protomyth
https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-cvs&m=147294297501630&w=2
======
protomyth
So, of the list of current platforms:

    
    
      alpha     Digital Alpha-based systems
      amd64     AMD64-based systems
      armv7     ARM-based devices, such as BeagleBone, BeagleBoard, PandaBoard ES, Cubox-i, SABRE Lite, Nitrogen6x and Wandboard
      hppa      Hewlett-Packard Precision Architecture (PA-RISC) systems
      i386      Standard PC and clones based on the Intel i386 architecture and compatible processors
      landisk   IO-DATA Landisk systems (such as USL-5P) based on the SH4 cpu
      loongson  Loongson 2E- and 2F-based systems, such as the Lemote Fuloong and Yeeloong, Gdium Liberty, etc.
      luna88k   Omron LUNA-88K and LUNA-88K2 workstations
      macppc    Apple New World PowerPC-based machines, from the iMac onwards
      octeon    Cavium Octeon-based MIPS64 systems
      sgi       SGI MIPS-based workstations
      socppc    Freescale PowerPC SoC-based machines
      sparc64   Sun UltraSPARC and Fujitsu SPARC64 systems 
    

There still seem to be a few that aren't supported by LLVM

~~~
coredog64
What is the value in continuing to support Alpha, SGI, and PA-RISC?

Were they cool in their day? Sure. But the consumer router you use to hook up
an O2 or an Octane to the internet has a more powerful MIPS CPU.

~~~
notaplumber
There have been many advantages to running on different platforms, which have
various quirks.. different endians, page sizes, strict alignment requirements,
stack-grows-up machines (hppa).

It also helps to have systems that are slow or have low memory, occasionally
they hit bugs that are unnoticed on modern hardware.

Alpha may have been interesting in that it had some peripheral similarities to
PC machines, but were actual 64-bit computers in the 90s. For kernel driver
hackers, popping in a PCI network card that was probably never tested on
anything besides a x86 PC, getting it to pass packets, and then making it your
home firewall, was a thing of beauty.

~~~
danieldk
_There have been many advantages to running on different platforms, which have
various quirks.. different endians, page sizes, strict alignment requirements,
stack-grows-up machines (hppa)._

I think that trying 'oddball' platforms indeed help shaking out bugs. But if
that's the goal (rather than supporting the five users that still use such
hardware), wouldn't it be more attractive to build pseudo-platforms in an
emulator that simulate other architecture choices, and run it on fast and
easy-to-get x86_64 hardware?

~~~
IcePic
You don't find races and bugs on emulators the same way as on real hardware.
Also, if you do find a bug in your emulated environment, how much time would
you spend wondering if the emulator is bad or your code? Also, there is a real
chance that the emulator would let stuff pass (like allowing code make memory
or bus access on odd address or some other restraint) which really shouldn't
be allowed and you would not notice it.

------
rwmj
I have a soft spot for Zaurus as it was my first "smartphone". Compared to the
smartphones of today, the UI was horrible, X11 used through a stylus with
applications that were barely any different from desktop apps. However you
could compile Linux programs [small ones, at least] and run them on your
phone!

~~~
rasur
I don't remember my Zaurus -ever- acting like a phone (it would have been cool
if it had!).

Everything else you write, I completely agree with.

------
pbiggar
What's the deal with "Use the space freed up"? Does this mean there are disk
space limits to the OpenBSD distro, and that something has to leave to make
space for something new? Or is it a joke I'm not getting?

~~~
notaplumber
It's those line deletion/addition ratios man, it has to even out.. or
preferably favor the left side.

But seriously, it's often said that the tree is now full, you need to remove
something unmaintained before you add may something new.

..more seriously, while it may not be noticeable by DVCS users, working
directory sizes for CVS/SVN repositories can actually /decrease/ when code is
removed.

------
wolf550e
Why under src/gnu ? It's not a GNU project, it's not under GPL.

~~~
tomjakubowski
Check the README :-)

[http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-
bin/cvsweb/src/gnu/README?rev=...](http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-
bin/cvsweb/src/gnu/README?rev=1.2&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup)

~~~
Esau
Seems to me that it should be renamed.

~~~
notaplumber
CVS versions files, not directories.. and it also doesn't support renames or
moves, not without some repository hackery. The historic purpose of src/gnu/
is irrelevant now, it's just a common place for "Gigantic and Nasty, but
Unavoidable" software.

~~~
int_19h
So the more appropriate question is, why is someone still using CVS? In 2016?
For a collaborative open source project?

I understand that a certain degree of conservatism in software can be
beneficial, but given just how limited CVS is, it would be kinda like writing
code in ed (now I hope no-one actually does that).

~~~
avar
No, the real question is why certain people on HN that likely won't even use
OpenBSD let alone contribute to its source code are complaining about what VCS
it's using, or what the directory structure of its source repository is like.

~~~
int_19h
You seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions about someone you don't
know.

I was actually picking a BSD to install on a laptop recently. OpenBSD got
dropped off the list when I found out that they still use CVS for base system
and ports (because, yes, I do intend to hack on those).

In any case, your basic premise is wrong. If you see someone riding a horse
buggy on a freeway, it's not unreasonable to ask why they're doing that.

~~~
alex_hitchins
> If you see someone riding a horse buggy on a freeway, it's not unreasonable
> to ask why they're doing that.

Surely it must work for them I'd be thinking. If you use a tool that still
works and has worked, changing for the sake of it seems unnecessary.

------
akerro
No such message.

~~~
protomyth
What the heck? Its there one minute then deletes when I refresh. Ok, an
article link is:
[https://twitter.com/bob_beck/status/772205499949481985](https://twitter.com/bob_beck/status/772205499949481985)
and
[http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OpenBSD-A...](http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OpenBSD-
Adds-LLVM-To-Base)

[edit: mods can you update?]

~~~
steveklabnik
From what I hear, one of two DNS servers is down, so if you get lucky, you see
the page, and if you get unlucky, you don't.

Google cache is here:
[https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https:...](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://marc.info/%3Fl=openbsd-
cvs%26m=147294297501630%26w=2)

~~~
wila
Currently there are 3 DNS servers and no problems as far as I can see.
(Ignoring the MX record anomaly)

[http://www.intodns.com/marc.info](http://www.intodns.com/marc.info)

~~~
notaplumber
It's actually not a DNS issue, the servers marc.info points to are
occasionally out of synch. It would be great if someone told them to fix
that..

