
The Ocean Cleanup's Machine Is About to Set Sail - CraneWorm
https://www.fastcompany.com/40560810/the-revolutionary-giant-ocean-cleanup-machine-is-about-to-set-sail
======
twic
The article slips in a link to a fact which i think is not well known, but
rather imporant - the punchline is in the URL slug:

[http://www.dw.com/en/almost-all-plastic-in-the-ocean-
comes-f...](http://www.dw.com/en/almost-all-plastic-in-the-ocean-comes-from-
just-10-rivers/a-41581484)

> It turns out that about 90 percent of all the plastic that reaches the
> world's oceans gets flushed through just 10 rivers: The Yangtze, the Indus,
> Yellow River, Hai River, the Nile, the Ganges, Pearl River, Amur River, the
> Niger, and the Mekong (in that order).

> These rivers have a few key things in common. All of them run through areas
> where a lot of people live — hundreds of millions of people in some cases.
> But what's more important is that these areas don't have adequate waste
> collection or recycling infrastructure. There is also little public
> awareness that plastic trash is a problem at all, so a lot of garbage, gets
> thrown into the river and conveniently disappears downstream.

The biggest thing we can do to fix the ocean plastic pollution problem isn't
visionary technology like Slat's cleanup machine (don't get me wrong - we
should cheer that project on!), or virtuous self-flagellation like using
reusable drinking straws, it's good old fashioned hard work: hire more bin
men, and put up more information posters.

EDIT: Here's another paper, applying related methods and coming to a broadly
similar, although fatter-tailed, conclusion - "The top 20 polluting rivers,
mostly located in Asia, account for 67% of the global total":

[https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15611](https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15611)

One of the authors on that paper is Boyan Slat!

SECOND EDIT: The latter paper includes a couple of sentences i struggle to
reconcile:

"We estimate that between 1.15 and 2.41 million tonnes of plastic waste
currently enters the ocean every year from rivers" ... "It has been estimated
that between 4.8 and 12.7 million tonnes of plastic enters the ocean every
year from coastal populations worldwide".

I'm not sure if they're quoting the 4.8 - 12.7 figure to endorse it (coastal
populations significantly outweigh rivers) or criticise it (ie it's rivers,
not coastal populations).

~~~
smoyer
Another recent study found that most of the plastic in the ocean was lost
fishing gear ... this would indicate that cleaning it up at the source doesn't
involve consumer training as much as industry training.

~~~
lprubin
On the consumer side we could stop eating seafood.

~~~
vanderZwan
If nothing else, I think that might be a good idea for our own health's sake.
Especially fish that is at the top of the food chain (tuna) is more likely to
have high concentrations of whatever toxins are now in the ocean thanks to us.

~~~
komali2
On the other hand, pushing people to choose fish over beef/pork/corn starch
would cause healthier populations, and might be easier than convincing people
to become vegetarians (especially people in food deserts that subsist
primarily on fast food).

Then again I'm probably just contributing to first world decision locking here
lol

~~~
gpvos
I could not find what "decision locking" meant. Did you maybe mean "decision
lock-in"?

~~~
komali2
Oh shit, maybe it's a made up term my friend group and I use?

It's the idea that there are too many decisions to make, so you can't decide.
It can happen when too many people play devil's advocate during a meeting and
we don't know what's real anymore.

~~~
chrisallenlane
This is sometimes referred to as "analysis paralysis."

------
sselbe
This project is hugely problematic, both because there are some pretty
fundamental flaws in how he characterizes plastic pollution and the lack of
any responses from the Ocean Cleanup about the criticism from just about every
ocean plastics expert out there. None of the major plastics pollution
nonprofits endorse this work, not out of jealousy but frustration with an idea
getting so much attention and funding purely because some charismatic kid has
talked about it.

Assuming that it is engineered to survive storms (which is DEFINITELY not an
easy feat given the design), anything like this will have an impact on marine
life. Anything that floats like this will act like a FAD (fish aggregating
device) and attract animals, and should be designed in a way to minimize
impact or incidental catch. It seems like his discussion about what that
includes has been pretty vague to date. This includes the small things in the
ocean that will certainly be harmed by this device.

The dispersion of plastics in the ocean seems to follow a different profile
than this device addresses. Contrary to what people imagine when they think of
the “Pacific Garbage Patch,” the bulk of plastic in the oceans is not large
pieces that are floating. Pretty much all plastic in the ocean has broken down
into small pieces and sits through the entire water column following the mixed
layer phenomenon. There’s been a lot of great research on that, including
microplastics which are now found in practically every water body on Earth.

Anyways, there are much smarter people than me who outlined the flaws. You can
read More here: [http://www.deepseanews.com/2014/07/the-ocean-cleanup-
part-1-...](http://www.deepseanews.com/2014/07/the-ocean-cleanup-
part-1-alternatives-to-reduce-ocean-plastic/)
[http://www.deepseanews.com/2014/07/the-ocean-cleanup-
part-2-...](http://www.deepseanews.com/2014/07/the-ocean-cleanup-
part-2-technical-review-of-the-feasibility-study/)
[http://deepseanews.com/2013/03/the-ocean-cleanup-the-
newest-...](http://deepseanews.com/2013/03/the-ocean-cleanup-the-newest-of-
the-new-plans-to-remove-marine-plastic/)
[http://climateadaptation.tumblr.com/post/46515698066/this-
in...](http://climateadaptation.tumblr.com/post/46515698066/this-invention-
keeps-popping-up-in-my-daily) [http://inhabitat.com/the-fallacy-of-cleaning-
the-gyres-of-pl...](http://inhabitat.com/the-fallacy-of-cleaning-the-gyres-of-
plastic-with-a-floating-ocean-cleanup-array/)

~~~
ummonk
First solar roadways, now this... I'm starting to get rather annoyed with junk
science proposals hoovering up funding and attention that could be going to
more scientifically sound endeavors.

~~~
sselbe
Solar roadways is a great parallel to this. Ocean Cleanup has raised $40
million. Just think of the good work you can do with that.

Part of the flaws of this is Boyan’s unwillingness to listen to any experts on
the matter. They’ve tried to help, and have largely been ignored as baseless
skeptics (which is the furthest thing from the truth). Ocean scientists want
to help solve the problems that the ocean faces and would definitely support
ideas that do this. Unfortunately this one doesn’t.

------
legulere
Hardly any plastic can be found at the surface of the ocean (1%). It makes
much more sense to clean up beaches that have a higher concentration by
several magnitudes and a serveral times bigger total amount of plastic (5% of
the ocean)

Numbers are from [http://www.eunomia.co.uk/reports-tools/plastics-in-the-
marin...](http://www.eunomia.co.uk/reports-tools/plastics-in-the-marine-
environment/)

~~~
jessriedel
> and a serveral times bigger total amount of plastic (5% of the ocean)

Looking at your link, you mean "5x the ocean" not "5% the ocean". That link
claims the beach plastic density is 2000 times larger, implying that by their
definition "beaches" are 2.5km wide on average (since there are 361 M km^2 of
ocean and 356,000 km of shoreline).

~~~
legulere
There’s still 94% of the plastic on the ocean floor which is not tackled at
all.

I don’t get where you have your number of shoreline from. I find numbers
threee times yours. Further the report states that the pollution of the ocean
surface is less than 1%

~~~
jessriedel
First result on Google & CIA world Factbook are both about 350,000 km.

[https://www.quora.com/How-many-miles-of-coastline-are-
there-...](https://www.quora.com/How-many-miles-of-coastline-are-there-in-the-
world)

------
azinman2
I wish them massive success. Glad to hear someone is at least trying for large
scale cleanup. Also glad the article mentioned needing to attack the root
cause as well — in some ways it’s harder because it’s a
political/economical/cultural, not engineering problem.

------
ForHackernews
> The system uses a giant floating tube–the first one will be 2,000 feet
> long–made of a durable plastic called HDPE, which can float in the water,
> flexible enough to bend with the waves, but rigid enough to form a U-shaped
> barrier to stop the plastic floating on the ocean’s surface.

What are the odds on a bad storm destroying this device and adding another big
chunk of garbage plastic to the ocean?

~~~
giarc
I'm wondering what are the chances a big storm disperses all the plastic it
collected up until that point?

~~~
yakshaving_jgt
If this happens, would they not just redeploy and begin collecting again? It's
not like dispersion is additive.

~~~
giarc
Yes but if a storm displaces the plastic from the trap every 30 days, seems
like a waste of that resource.

------
ars
> The money made from selling the plastic to manufacturers, who want the
> cachet of using ocean plastic, will theoretically fund the operation.

Ouch. Trying to reuse mixed plastic that is in little tiny pieces, and very
highly contaminated? Maybe they'll catch some large nets.

Oddly enough, in this case a little greenwashing will help. Tell people it's
"recycled ocean plastic", but actually use just a tiny bit and landfill the
rest.

It's still a win because the plastic is no longer in the ocean.

------
manigandham
A good conversation/interview on the Joe Rogan podcast with Boyan Slat:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J145vnEZX6w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J145vnEZX6w)

------
titojankowski
Adidas sold 1 million pairs of its shoes made from ocean plastic [1]. Wonder
what the market for ocean plastic is like?

[https://www.theinertia.com/environment/adidas-
sold-1-million...](https://www.theinertia.com/environment/adidas-
sold-1-million-pairs-of-shoes-made-of-ocean-trash-in-2017/)

~~~
look_lookatme
I suspect it will continue to be good at the expense of the markets for
recycled plastic, which have already taken a nosedive.

------
andrewstuart
Less effort should go into cleaning up, and more into killing the communities
acceptance of the garbage manufacturing / packaging industry, which spews this
stuff out at a virtually infinite rate.

Stop mopping up, turn off the tap.

~~~
skookumchuck
Should start with a tax on bottled water, an absurd and unnecessary industry
if there ever was one.

~~~
Jaruzel
I live in London. The water that comes out of the tap is totally undrinkable,
unless you filter it a few times AND boil it. Ergo, we live on bottled water
for cold drinks. We recycle every bottle we use.

IF the water came in returnable glass bottles, we'd switch to those in a
heartbeat.

~~~
stevesimmons
I live in London too. The water is perfectly drinkable straight out of the
tap.

Your comment about needing to boil the water to make it drinkable is truly
bizarre. I know of precisely zero people here who boil tap water before
drinking it.

UK tap water is safer that bottled water because it is monitored much more
closely. The responsible government body is the UK Drinking Water
Inspectorate. You can read the reports on their website (a good overview is
the annual summary letter to the government at [1]). In 2016, 99.96% of
samples met the quality requirements of the EU Drinking Water Directive.

If you are particularly sensitive to residual chlorine, the DWI advises
letting the water stand for a couple of hours [2]. No need to boil or filter.
Of course, if you search online, you are more likely to see advice from makers
of water filters saying you need to filter the water...

[1] [http://www.dwi.gov.uk/about/annual-report/2016/letter-
eng.pd...](http://www.dwi.gov.uk/about/annual-report/2016/letter-eng.pdf)

[2] [http://dwi.defra.gov.uk/consumers/advice-
leaflets/chlorine.p...](http://dwi.defra.gov.uk/consumers/advice-
leaflets/chlorine.pdf)

~~~
skookumchuck
A problem with using filtered water (and nearly all bottled waters are
filtered) is the minerals are filtered out as well. Your body needs the
minerals.

(I save a ton of money drinking tap water, and making my own drip coffee,
which takes less time than ordering at Starbucks!)

------
danieljohnson
With all of the ways that we hear the environment is being damaged by humans,
it's nice to hear about a way we're trying to improve it.

This give me hope.

~~~
awat
I’ll second that and fingers crossed that the publicity encourages a cascading
effect of environmental kindnesses.

------
spodek
You reading these words right now can reduce your consumption of plastic and
fossil fuels, probably by 90% without any decrease in your quality of life.
More likely you'll improve it.

On a personal level, my commitment to avoid packaged food 3 years ago means I
last had to empty my landfill garbage June 4. I've emptied my recycling I
think twice since then. Now that feels like way too much.

The main result is that my diet is more delicious than ever, more varied, more
convenient, and saves me money.

I'm in my third year of not flying too. I began by saying I would avoid flying
for one year. It improved my life so much I kept going.

These two changes sounded scary and impossible when I committed to them but
experience showed me that living by my values improves my life. It took a
while to let go of mainstream values that I couldn't stomach but had lived by
for decades. Once I did, things got better and better.

I'm not special. You can almost certainly cut your plastic use, fossil fuel
use, pollution, and so on by a lot. I bet you'll find it improves your life.

~~~
spraak
Your experience reminds me of the book and movie "No Impact Man", which I
thoroughly enjoyed reading and watching. Thanks for sharing! I feel more
motivated to reduce my trash. Have you shared any of this on e.g. a blog?

~~~
spodek
I've shared a ton on my blog, Inc. column, and my podcast, Leadership and the
Environment. At the risk of flooding you:

Avoiding food packaging: [http://joshuaspodek.com/js_blogseries/avoiding-food-
packagin...](http://joshuaspodek.com/js_blogseries/avoiding-food-packaging)
(the table of contents on the right is clickable)

Not flying: [https://www.inc.com/joshua-spodek/365-days-without-
flying.ht...](https://www.inc.com/joshua-spodek/365-days-without-flying.html)

Podcast: [http://joshuaspodek.com/podcast](http://joshuaspodek.com/podcast) or
[https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/leadership-and-the-
envir...](https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/leadership-and-the-
environment/id1320141457)

Picking up garbage: [https://www.inc.com/joshua-spodek/a-millennial-making-
americ...](https://www.inc.com/joshua-spodek/a-millennial-making-america-
clean-again.html)

Plenty more if you click "related posts" at the bottom of blog posts and in my
Inc. profile: [http://www.inc.com/author/joshua-
spodek](http://www.inc.com/author/joshua-spodek).

------
parliament32
This is an awesome project, good luck to them!

------
SirFatty
Good on him, and ignoring the naysayers.

~~~
lozenge
Why? The naysayers have some very good points (discussed elsewhere in the
thread).

~~~
offbytwo
I would say a serious attempt at cleaning any amount of the ocean is better
than no attempt.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
...unless its doing more damage than good. The project uses screens which
'because they are not nets' will do no harm. Wha? How about to microscopic
life, say, the size of plastic particles? Isn't it going to sterilize the
surface of the ocean of all those animals? The vast bulk of life in the ocean
is in the top meter - exactly where they're vacuuming up everything.

~~~
offbytwo
If your taking the 'protect wildlife' route, then it doesn't make sense to
argue _against_ taking trash out of the ocean which directly kills a god-awful
lot of animals as it stands.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Is that even true? Does the Sargasso sea plastic particulate harm animals? To
what degree?

Straining billions of sea creatures out of the top meter of water is an actual
harm. It makes no sense to have to argue that's a net loss. Unless we're
taking the 'save the large, cuddly animals first' route, which is so often
part of eco-theatre.

------
kwoff
Just for context, from a month ago:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16654524](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16654524)
. (I'm still wondering if the "mass" of plastic is relevant, so clue me in.)

------
petermcneeley
Why did he drop out of school? This sounds like a modern application of
mechanical engineering. Do we believe so little in our education system that
we wouldnt want this to be designed by a mechanical engineer?

edit: I just thought he was responsible for the mechanical innovation.

~~~
giarc
There's a ton of engineers on the 70+ team designing and working on this.

[https://www.theoceancleanup.com/careers/](https://www.theoceancleanup.com/careers/)

------
andrewstuart
We should require companies to report how much packaging/garbage they create
every year.

------
Jaruzel
I think the irony that the the device to catch plastic is also made of
plastic, seems to be lost on a lot people. More so that the project is
unlikely to succeed, and if as some people are predicting, it's not storm
proof, then it's very likely to just be adding [it's mass] to the problem.

~~~
offbytwo
The device is made from recyclable plastic.

~~~
Jaruzel
It's still plastic. Being put into the ocean. Likely to be smashed to bits by
a storm.

------
romdev
Geez, that thing is as big as a whale! I'd say it seats about 20.

------
hguhghuff
We should pay fishing boats to haul in garbage.

------
Overtonwindow
Maybe Sunday we can get something like this attached to all oceangoing
vessel’s of size that cross back-and-forth.

~~~
unit91
Sunday's probably too early. Monday perhaps. :-D

------
andriesm
Jordan Peterson used this guy as an example of someone that is truly committed
to environmentalism, as compared to the typical clueless feel-good armchair
activist that achieves little.

~~~
xingped
I think that might be a little unfair to most people that care about the
environment. A lot of this is coming up with a feasible idea that you or
someone you know can execute on. Would I or most people be able to come up
with this idea? Myself definitely not and most people probably not. If I were
to have the domain knowledge to be able to come up with this idea and
understand how to execute upon it, then would I pursue it? Most likely. I
think a lot of people want to do something, but coming up with the right ideas
and knowledge to be useful is a totally different story.

~~~
yakshaving_jgt
Is the idea all that impressive? Is it not essentially just a big floating
wall? To me, the impressive thing is that the young guy has actually put this
in motion.

In business, we say ideas are worthless and it's all in execution. I think the
same principle applies here.

