

Show HN: Keep track of earning expenses better than excel sheets - kingsidharth

I started to track my expenses on excel sheets earlier this year. It was interesting to see how much I spent casually on just another hangout with friends or on education.<p>Excel sheets are painful, at least for me.<p>So I built this with my friend: (it's just MVP)<p>http://accountant.besperk.com<p>Edit:<p>Coming up next:<p>&#62; Mobile site and apps asap.<p>&#62; Graphs and reports<p>&#62; SSL<p>&#62; Custom Alerts (when you cross a certain limit, that you define, for certain tag)<p>&#62; Pre populated tags.<p>Tech used:<p>&#62; Rails<p>&#62; on Heroku<p>My co-founder is offline will ask him to add more details on tech used side.
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VonLipwig
\-- EDIT --

[ To give these messages context. This comment could have been construed to
say something else. I said 'what makes your app worthless is this' after
taking about how he describes a lack of technical info and before I talk about
the FAQ.

I later updated this line to make it clearer. I should have added an edit note
but didn't. I apologise. I just added the edit note and this blurb at the
beginning to give the rest of the conversation context.

This is why there is discussion about lack of designer's tech knowledge
devaluing an application. This was down to my poor writing. Wasn't my intent.
I hope everything is clearer now.

I will no longer be using the edit button on HN ]

\-- END OF EDIT --

This is worrying:

> My co-founder is offline will ask him to add more details on tech used side.

You have already got this far. Why do >> you << not know this already?

This text in your FAQ, for me, makes your application worthless. [Edited --
Original line could have been read as lack technical information devalued the
application. This was not intended]

> Do you have access to my account information?

> Yes. But with 100s of people using the app, it's really not interesting to
> run after your details. If your financial data can make world economy crash,
> please do not use the app.

What you have said is this. "Yes we have full access to your account
information." Then to follow it up you effectively say this. "We may snoop on
your account so if you have sensitive info do not use this application."

Its really really bad. Data security should be the most important thing you
do. Especially as your app is to do with people's finances. User data should
be encrypted. I don't understand why you need to have access to individual
clients data. Can you explain please.

~~~
kingsidharth
Being a designer I do not get the hang of what gem went in this app. SO yeah
that's the first part.

I do not know how this makes the app worthless. _Honestly? Designer doesn't
know what goes behind it so app is worthless._

Data is not encrypted because shipping a MVP was the main goal till now. But
it's on the list yes.

Follow up does not say sensitive data. Follow up says if you're data is so
interesting that everyone is after it pelase don't share.

Edit:

PS: Dude when you edit your original comment. do mention you edited it. In the
comment itself.

~~~
milkshakes
welcome to HN. i personally think "worthless" might be just a bit rude but the
H does stand for hacker, so naturally the audience would be interested in the
technology you employ to keep their data safe.

~~~
kingsidharth
Yeah even after 400+ days on HN. I fail to understand why Designers are not
just respectable :|

~~~
abcd_f
> _Designers are not just respectable_

That would be "Designers living in vaccum."

You need to decide if you are a designer or a co-founder, and if you are
owning the product or merely contributing to it. Because _designers_ shouldn't
be making public comments on product privacy policies.

~~~
kingsidharth
In referrence to original comment:

He mentioned I _should_ know the stack. Privacy policy was not mentioned. Nor
did I say being a designer has anything to do with Privacy Policy.

I said, being a designer I do not understand what _stack_ it is and that
doesn't make the app worthless.

------
duck
You need to add a pricing page (or put it on the homepage) so people
understand what they get for free and what costs $5 a month. I didn't sign-up,
but I hate when I do sign-up for something thinking it was free and then it
turns out the free option doesn't do _anything_.

~~~
kingsidharth
Valid thing. Actually pricing is on home page but was testing it (A: on , B:
off) guess you got the off part.

~~~
abcd_f
I find this really hard to believe. Factual statement, not trolling.

~~~
kingsidharth
Open Icongnito / Private Browsing window. It's likely to show you the B
version. Though there are 10 combinations so might take some time.

If you want I can give you a screenshot.

------
CWIZO
<http://toshl.com/>

This is a similar product that already has native apps for many mobile
platforms and it's free to use (there is a pro account with some additional
features).

disclaimer: I'm friends with the folks who built this, I just wanted to post
this here for comparison.

~~~
kingsidharth
This is really good. Thanks for sharing :)

------
loozapalooza
Probably it is just me. But let me try to get it straight. We made something
like Mint, but took away the tough components to implement for eg. automation,
getting data from credit card spending etc. We justified it by saying that it
gives you better understanding of your spending "on the go". No idea what that
really means. Mint does give you fairly up to date information of your
spending, budgeting and all kinds of good stuff. So while we were at it, we
thought since we are doing less work ourselves than what Mint does and making
users work harder by making them enter all their information manually unlike
Mint. Lets charge money for it. Does no one else see problem with this
approach?

~~~
kingsidharth
I am not sure if my example will make any sense here.

While mint aims at helping you reach your saving goals and plan your budget.

Accountant helps you reflect on your spending habits.

It's like the slight difference between a To-do List and Checklist. Both are
similar but not same. You can call To-do list a daily checklist but when it
comes to the experience and result, they are a bit different.

I do not have more data or examples to explain it. Tried my best.

------
sushantsharma
I think you need to do a better job at clearly explaining why people should
use your product over mint/other sites. Currently, it appears that I need to
manually enter all my expenses. That is not gonna happen for most of the
users. As an example, I just came back from a really hectic one week trip to
seattle. I used 2 or 3 cards to pay at tens of places. Its not possible for me
to now recollect what I spent during last one week. With mint, I can track all
of it really easily. How can your site do a better job, and help me in this
case?

Your site appearance is nice btw.

~~~
kingsidharth
Very valid pain point. Shall take it into consideration.

------
karolist
Very nice design overall though I'd like something even lighter.

Some minor feedback:

* Your message/notification box width is larger than your content box width and they don't align.

* Report generation is missing or I can't find it.

* Your ToS section on privacy is not clear and seems to reference to the same document for it, but I couldn't find a section for that. It's important to have it, more so when you're dealing with people's expense data.

Please tell us more about the technology you use and plan to use, hom much
time you've spent building it.

~~~
kingsidharth
Adde to post.

Somehow I missed privacy policy. Shall put it up soon.

------
Deutscher
What does your site offer over Mint (which is free)?

~~~
kingsidharth
From FAQ: (though it's about automation, but goes same for overall vision)

    
    
      Why don't you automate it? Like Mint.com etc?
      That's not our purpose. When you consciously recall where 
      you spent money and document it. It has a different effect. 
      That's the aim of the app.
    
    

Expanding on it: While building Accountant, I had one thin in mind. Why look
at what you did after a month? Why not look at it on-the-go? The only way I
could think of was to consciously put the data.

Example: End up spending 1000 bucks on DVD rentals and then regret. Or know
when you're spending the 500th buck and stop. Just a lame example but presents
the use case.

~~~
true_religion
Not to be harsh but the lack of automation kills it for me.

I don't _want_ to consciously recall where my money goes. I want all of the
benefits of that conscious recall--e.g. staying within my budget, being able
to see if my spending has changed month to month, and being able to look up
where I ate 3 weeks ago--- _without_ being forced to recall day-to-day what
I've been doing.

Without automatic categorization, what you have is a prettier interface than
excel but functionality that no one who can sling together a few excel macros
will think is impressive.

------
rollercoaster
Since this post sounds like pubic beta/self marketing, You should provide a
couple of ready accounts for users to try this out.. i dont want to give up my
email just to see the innards for your brain spill!

~~~
kingsidharth
For that reason we did not use email double opt-in.

You can use test@testing.com or whatever.

In case you are wondering why not just a login to use? because sign-up process
is important part of the whole experience. When I ask for feedback, I would
like feedback about it as "whole" not just part.

Maybe I think it's an important part because I am a designer. But I am all
ears if you have a stronger reason.

------
true_religion
How is this better and/or different than Mint.com?

Mint connects to your bank account and does _automatic_ categorization, and
compares your spending habits to that of the state and US as a whole.

------
mapster
Can I integrate this with my online banking service? Bank of America shows my
account history in ledger format, so I have to do the work in Excel to
categorize the expenditures.

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laurendsmith
Just a heads up to those thinking of giving it a spin, there is no way to
delete your account once its been made unless I missed something...

------
iworkforthem
easy to click: <http://accountant.besperk.com>

