
Evercoin: A cryptocurrency exchange platform - mcone
https://evercoin.com/
======
uncletammy
Oh, so it's like [https://shapeshift.io/](https://shapeshift.io/) except
subject to the arbitrary and Orwellian US financial regulations!

All jokes aside, I'm not knocking Evercoin. It looks beautiful and I welcome
anyone and everyone who wants to bring liquidity to crypto markets. I'm just
concerned about the sustainability of any platform based in the US. Maybe
Evercoin knows something I don't though.

I feel like the smartest thing we can do is exactly what Bitfinex has done.
Shut out US customers and put pressure on regulators to be sensible.

~~~
komaromy
Shapeshift is very convenient but the fees are exorbitant compared to other
platforms.

~~~
xur17
And Evercoin's fees are even higher.

~~~
gst
I just tried placing an order and Evercoin's fees appear to be significantly
lower.

Shapeshift: 1 BTC -> 14.20477011 ETH

Evercoin: 1 BTC -> 14.25967407 ETH

Changelly: 1 BTC -> 14.35434362 ETH

While Changelly appears to have the best rate they don't guarantee the rate.
In my experience the actual rate is often much worse than the estimated rate
(and unfortunately it's too late to cancel once you see the rate).

~~~
xur17
I was originally testing BCC to BTC, so it looks like it depends upon what you
are exchanging:

Shapeshift: 1 BCC -> 0.06773499 BTC

Evercoin: 1 BCC -> 0.06682701 BTC

~~~
clemens2000
Maybe someone should build a Kayak for Bitcoin exchanges, that picks the
cheapest exchange for each trade...

~~~
ufotarikati
Writing the formula for you

1) pick the cheapest exchange 2) sell at expensive exchange price 3) add
commission 4) add network fees

~~~
tstyle
The formula is more complicated than this. Services such as shapeshift.io
guarantee the price for 10 minutes, as well as sending purchased tokens almost
instantaneously. To accomplish this means keeping inventory and becoming
vulnerable to volatility risk and liquidity risk.

Picking a reasonable bid-ask spread is hard, and probably involves more input
factors than the 4 you listed above.

------
tyrust
As others have noted, this is a clone of
[https://shapeshift.io/](https://shapeshift.io/). Clones are fine: it's
possible that evercoin does something different/better than shapeshift. What
is not fine is the apparent lack of transparency in fees [0]. evercoin says
that they charge both exchange and miner fees but do not specify either; just
because they include the fees in the final price does not mean they do not
exist. Compare this to shapeshift [1], which only charges a miner fee,
specifying exactly what that fee is.

[0] - from their FAQ ([https://evercoin.com/faq](https://evercoin.com/faq)):

> How about fees?

> Let's assume Evercoin tells you that you will receive 7.55 LTC for
> depositing 1 ETH. All fees (our fee and miner/blockchain fee) are all baked
> into our pricing so there is no additional fee. That means if we receive
> -exactly- 1 ETH then you will get -exactly- 7.55 LTC in your LTC wallet. No
> playing with the numbers, no surprises.

[1] - from
[https://info.shapeshift.io/about](https://info.shapeshift.io/about):

>With ShapeShift, what you see is what you get. The exchange rate shown is
exactly what you'll receive, minus only the "miner fee." There is no exchange
fee, or service fee.

> [fee schedule follows]

~~~
amingilani
It doesn't matter. At the end of the day, all you care about is the exchange
rate (e) for the number of tokens you send (x) and the number of tokens you
get (y). i.e (x/y = e)

The way the exchange determines this rate is entirely upto them. If it's too
high, go somewhere else.. but no exchange is required to disclose how they
derived their rate. Just because one did, doesn't mean it's any better than
the other.

If the e(shapeshift) < e(evercoin), I'd go for Shapeshift, or vice-versa.

In the real world, I wouldn't expect a money-exchange at the airport to
include a full breakdown of their costs on their exchange schedule.

~~~
jpatokal
Actually, in most of the world money exchangers are required by law to state
if they charge flat fees/commissions/etc on top of exchange rates, and having
"NO FEES/COMMISSIONS" is an advertising point.

So it looks like Evercoin is in the "NO FEES" camp, which would usually mean
crummier rates for larger sums, and Shapeshift is in the fee camp, again
usually meaning you take a hit on small sums but get better rates for larger
sums. (Note that I'm not sure if this is actually the case.)

------
aphextron
This seems so wacky to me. Are you guys seriously going to start sending
thousands of dollars in currency through some random website with a marketing
page and a blog?

~~~
EthanHeilman
You just described 90% of online merchants.

...and you're right, plenty of online merchants rip people off. This is one
reason that large trusted merchants dominate the space (overstock, amazon,
newegg, etc..).

If a shapeshift clone exit scam [0] hasn't happened yet it will happen soon.
People should do careful research on these sites before using them, just like
people should do research on online merchants.

That being said I don't think evercoin is a scam. I'm glad to see competitors
to shapeshift and innovation in this space. The website looks great! I wish
evercoin all the best.

[0]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exit_scam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exit_scam)

~~~
ourmandave
But aren't you protected by your credit card if the merchant fails to deliver?

~~~
aphextron
>But aren't you protected by your credit card if the merchant fails to
deliver?

Yes, among other legal protections. The reason this seems so crazy to me is
because you have absolutely no recourse in the event of a mishap. The company
doesnt even have a published address or phone number. I cant even find a
support e-mail. A Google search yields nothing about the company but this
announcement. The blog is run entirely by their "Chief Marketing Officer". I
guess my skin is not thick enough for the crypto world.

------
jerguismi
Looks like a shapeshift/changelly clone.

~~~
donpdonp
The simplicity of the conversion is fantastic, but I am perplexed as to how an
anonymous exchange exists when there are KYC requirements.

~~~
ringaroundthetx
first by admitting that KYC wouldn't help stop terrorists even if it was
implemented how you imagined it. Even Shapeshift wrote that in response to the
WannaCry investigations.

One hop to Monero and the whole money firewall regime is foiled, hopefully
enough that the people of any nation ask their governments to stop spending
their money on that task, and focus on the economy in more productive ways.

KYC laws apply to national currencies. Any cryptocurrency exchange that has
limits is just trying to run a show to appease some senators for the time
being.

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _KYC laws apply to national currencies_

Assuming federal laws don't apply because you sprinkled some magic around you
is a pretty awful way to end up in jail. KYC violations are criminally
punishable. Anyone operating a non-compliant exchange is subject to
investigation, arrest and asset freezes.

 _Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. This comment does not constitute legal nor
investment advice._

~~~
ringaroundthetx
> Assuming federal laws don't apply because you sprinkled some magic around
> you is a pretty awful way to end up in jail.

AML/KYC apply to institutions that apply for Money Service Business licenses,
MSBs for short. This is promulgated by FinCEN agency of the US Treasury
department. FinCEN has comprehensive definitions of what kind of digital
currency use is subject to MSB registration.

It is easy for digital currency to other digital currency exchangers to be
exempt from those regulations, via one of the codified exemptions, because
your straw man argument about federal laws not applying wasn't the argument I
was making at all. So now that we've established that, let me know if you want
to discuss the something closer to reality.

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _AML /KYC apply to institutions that apply for Money Service Business
> licenses_

MSBs have KYC requirements. It does not follow that non-MSBs have no KYC
requirements. FINRA-member firms, for example, are not MSBs and have strict
KYC rules [1].

FinCEN has nowhere said that non-MSBs are exempt from KYC. Nobody can
competently say that. All American businesses are subject to the minimum
threshold of KYC responsibility in coöperating with OFAC restrictions [2].

[1]
[http://www.finra.org/industry/notices/11-02](http://www.finra.org/industry/notices/11-02)

[2] [https://www.treasury.gov/resource-
center/faqs/Sanctions/Page...](https://www.treasury.gov/resource-
center/faqs/Sanctions/Pages/faq_general.aspx)

 _Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. This comment does not constitute legal nor
investment advice._

~~~
ringaroundthetx
FinCEN wouldn't be the agency to say non-MSBs are exempt from KYC.

There may be a kind of FINRA member firm that is both regulated by the SEC and
not an MSB, but many kinds, such as broker-dealers are regulated by both FINRA
and the SEC and subject to the source you linked.

Yes, OFAC is a different discussion with different considerations.

------
2paisay
Their LinkedIn profile doesn't inspire much confidence except for everyone is
Turkish and they keep recommending each other there.

------
peepopeep
Sure, let's just hide the fees and not tell users they are getting taken. How
about some transparency?

~~~
talipozturk
This is Talip@Evercoin. We have mainly two kinds of fees. Miner/Network fees,
which are fixed and can be listed (and we will). Second one is our fee, which
is dynamically calculated based on multiple parameters such as our reserve,
market trend and recent transactions. It is basically a risk calculation. We
can and should say that on our FAQ but not sure if that is going to be
'transparent' enough. Btw, we are a new service, we need feedback from the
community to know how to make our service better and time to get them done. We
are committed to become better. So please keep the feedback coming.

------
SubiculumCode
I am naive but why is there not a decentralized service for exchanging
cryptocurrency (or is there?)?

~~~
kingjacob
There are, see Etherdelta. And also projects like 0xproject.com are working on
going entirely trustless.

------
vit05
Is there any simple exchange like this that accept Paypal? I am losing too
much in fees buying locally. And using places like Localbitcoin is too much
expensive.

------
timothyjj
How is different than having a Bittrex account and then using Bittrex's API to
perform trades based on people's request on the website?

------
choffman
A noble attempt, but without supporting Monero you're not supporting
fungibility and privacy.

I hope this is an oversight that you'll correct.

~~~
talipozturk
This is Talip@Evercoin. Yes we are currently working on adding Monero. Should
be ready in a week. Thanks for the feedback.

------
base698
Why not Neo? Seems like the hottest one to support right now. Would probably
test it out if you get that working :)

------
hossbeast
I was hoping to learn that the in game coin for EverQuest was backed by a
public blockchain

~~~
rhcom2
Couldn't that stop gold farming / selling? Proof of work (proof of grinding)?

~~~
itsnotlupus
Online games give gold to their users liberally as positive reinforcement for
playing the game.

That's probably not compatible with a strict minting schedule constrained by a
proof of work system.

~~~
AgentME
Also, making it super easy for gold farmers to cash out probably isn't great
if you don't want large gold farming groups affecting the game economy and
making it harder for legit non-gold-buying players.

------
aqsheehy
An exchange for unlicensed securities, hope they enjoy what's coming for them

~~~
coinhipster
what do you mean by unlicensed security?

------
mikojava
Hi everyone.

I am Miko from Evercoin and I'm happy to answer your questions.

The People Behind EverCoin

I'm happy to see people on this board looking at our service with suspicion,
this is normal and the community needs to protect itself from scammers. We do
show our own faces and linkedin profiles on the front page of our exchange.
Yes, it is possible that people are just using the identities of others. We
are obviously not so prominent or famous but I do have a number of fairly
prominent people in crypto who could vouch for us or who have met us including
general partners at Pantera Capital, Jackson Palmer, originator of Dogecoin,
Robert CEO of ZenCash, Zooko from Zcash and many others. I know these aren't
necessarily the gods of crypto like Vitalik Buterin, but I havent met him so
he can't say if I'm a real person or not. I am one of the organizers of the SF
Advanced Crypto Asset Trading group and Crypto Underground meetup, so 3500
people in that community know who I am at some level. Anyhow, I welcome the
suspicion, I hate scammers as much as anyone and feel like everyone who asks
you to "send bitcoin to this address" deserves to be checked out. I've been in
Silicon Valley for 25 years working in tech.

Check out our Linkedin here Miko (me)
[https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikomatsumura/](https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikomatsumura/)
Talip's linkedin is here
[https://www.linkedin.com/in/talipozturk/](https://www.linkedin.com/in/talipozturk/)
Yasin's [https://www.linkedin.com/in/yasin-
tamer/](https://www.linkedin.com/in/yasin-tamer/) Ahmed's
[https://www.linkedin.com/in/ahmet-
alptekin/](https://www.linkedin.com/in/ahmet-alptekin/) Ismael's
[https://www.linkedin.com/in/ismaelkose/](https://www.linkedin.com/in/ismaelkose/)

Talip created the open source project Hazelcast.
[https://github.com/hazelcast/hazelcast](https://github.com/hazelcast/hazelcast)
a github based Apache open source licensed project with over 24,000 commits
and 143 committers.

Honestly, we are a BRAND NEW service, so there are very few reviews. Here is
us on Product Hunt
[https://www.producthunt.com/posts/evercoin](https://www.producthunt.com/posts/evercoin)
Here is our Blog [https://blog.evercoin.com/](https://blog.evercoin.com/)

We need to get more reviews. it will take time to become a trusted and
reliable member of this community, we get it. We will keep working hard to
earn your trust.

If you want to see our offices, this is what it looks like: [https://cdn-
images-1.medium.com/max/800/1*5NMG03OXtNCUzXnKYj...](https://cdn-
images-1.medium.com/max/800/1*5NMG03OXtNCUzXnKYjQr-g.jpeg)

Meet us better on this blog post [https://blog.evercoin.com/meet-evercoin-
exchange-4506f897545...](https://blog.evercoin.com/meet-evercoin-
exchange-4506f8975459)

Happy to answer any other questions you all may have.

How to start As with any crypto service, start small. Just try a very small
transaction to see how the system behaves. It's a fully functional system, so
you'll immediately get the feeling of that. And yes, do your homework.

------
hackerboos
Any plans to support Monero?

~~~
talipozturk
We just added Monero today!

------
gst
Is the rate shown when placing an order guaranteed or an estimate?

------
earthly10x
This kind of activity spurs 'The Dawn of $1B ICO's'
[https://hackernoon.com/the-dawn-of-
the-1b-ico-a0486f6587a2](https://hackernoon.com/the-dawn-of-
the-1b-ico-a0486f6587a2)

------
DeepRote
High fees, no good coins, bare bones functionality.

Why would I use this when there a dozen better products that do this and more?

~~~
talipozturk
This is Talip@Evercoin. We will be adding more coins over time starting with
Monero in a week. We think support matters a lot. We want to make sure we are
quickly reachable via anonymous chat on the website when needed.

------
loppers92
Unfortunately, they don't have IOTA listed...

What is IOTA?

[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h09z2N0MtuQ](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h09z2N0MtuQ)

