
Chinese boy defaces ancient Egyptian sculpture, prompts online outrage - fakeer
http://behindthewall.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/27/18532307-chinese-boy-defaces-ancient-egyptian-sculpture-prompts-online-outrage
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yunong
I find this wholly embarrassing as someone who is ethnically Chinese. This is
not an isolated incident. I have personally witnessed domestic and
international Chinese tourists behaving poorly, impolitely and without any
consideration for the artifacts and other tourists. As an example -- whilst
visiting the Ming tombs in Beijing, Ding Ling, to be specific, a couple let
their child behind the cordoned off area to sit on the emperor's throne. This
was a priceless 800 year old artifact and when I gently remarked upon this to
them, it fell on deaf ears. Most warning signs are patently ignored --
examples such as smokers on the great wall, photographers in Buddhist Temples,
screaming children in museums are just par for the course.

You have no idea how depressing it is to see the Great Wall of China littered
with cigarette butts, or witnessing a small child defecating in the corner of
the Forbidden City with the full blessing of its parent.

I would even go so far as to say that most people don't think the "rules"
apply to them. This is true not just in tourism, but in everyday life. Any
visitor to China will tell you stories of smokers in the pristine bathrooms of
Beijing Capital Airport, or the subways, and people spitting on the street,
jaywalking, or queue jumping.

Some personal pet peeves of mine include -- people getting on to subway cars
before allowing passengers to get off, smoking in clearly designated non-
smoking areas, littering anywhere and everywhere, line cutting, pushing and
shoving others, blasting music from ipads on planes, and driving in the
emergency lane on freeways.

This poor behaviour has only recently gained international attention because
Chinese people have become more affluent and started travelling outside of
China. However, prosperity doesn't correlate with class. Unless the Chinese
government take drastic steps to cure this problem at home first -- the crass
perception of its people will only perpetuate in the west as more and more
start to travel internationally. Perhaps a system like Singapore where
violations are fined severely might work -- provided it's implemented across
the board everywhere.

Signed -- an embarrassed Chinese Canadian.

~~~
ekianjo
I can only relate here and I have seen the things you mentioned in the
Forbidden city and the Great Wall as well. Not too long ago I was in Thailand
(Pukhet), in a hotel resort for a couple of days off, and a couple of Chinese
tourists came from the beach and washed their feet in the hotel swimming pool
where everyone was swimming. Not embarrassed the least to do that. While there
was a special hose, labeled and clearly visible for this particular use a few
meters away for people to clean up their feet when coming back from the beach.

On another occasion, while flying domestically in China, I saw a guy just a
couple of seats away from me on the left spitting on the aircraft floor
several times during the flight. I was like... "huh?". I can kind of
understand people spitting on the floor, outside, but in actual public
transport? Seriously?

I have no idea what is going through their heads and why they even think it's
remotely acceptable to do this. Would they like it if someone did it to them?

~~~
msie
Did you tell them to stop it? I think a lot of problems like this would be
solved if someone worked up the courage to speak up. It could have just been a
major misunderstanding. Maybe they really didn't see the hose or thought it
was only used for emergencies. I've seen people of all races do stupid things.

~~~
seabrookmx
While I agree with you in that we shouldn't stereotype, this is a cultural
issue, not a racial one. Like the top level comment above this states, a
Chinese Canadian is going to have vastly different customs. The article is
referring to inconsiderate trends in Chinese culture, not Chinese race.

~~~
msie
And yet, there is a lot of condemnation from the mainland Chinese themselves.

Anyways, regardless of who is doing it, I think it's better to let them know
they are doing it wrong, right when they are doing it because:

1) maybe they innocently don't know better and want to know better 2) you
don't want that resentment to fester in your mind 3) you don't want to take
out that resentment on someone else of the same race (which always seem to be
happen)

Much easier said than done of course.

------
general_failure
I wonder how one teaches people who don't know better.

In India, there is a place called hampi which is near a village called hospet.
It is one of the worlds most ancient and spectacular ruins. There is also
literally pigs and sewer everywhere.

For a more popular example take taj mahal. Agra is dirty like hell and words
cannot describe the sanitation situation there. The taj mahal doesn't need
help to look awesome but with a background of a stinking river and a filthy
city, it looks like a diamond in shit.

Actually why tourist places. Are you guys aware that Indian railways
encourages defecating in the open? Yes sir visit any train station in India
and you will see fresh human faeces on the tracks. All toilets of the train
open up straight into the ground.

All this to say that in countries like India people cannot take care of their
own land forget other people s land.

~~~
pinaceae
that's the classic traintoilet design across the world. only recently have
toilets in trains been replaced with chemical ones - adoption was driven by
high speed trains.

nothing particular about india in this little bit. i agree with your overall
assessment though.

~~~
geoka9
> that's the classic traintoilet design across the world.

I can confirm it's the same in the ex-USSR countries. That's why the lock the
lavatory 10 minutes before arriving at a station and don't unlock it until the
train is well clear of the town.

------
ceol
At least in discussions on Western websites, the outrage always has an
underlying racism permeating it. None of these people really have any right to
be upset; they didn't care about the artifact, they've probably never _been_
to a museum, let alone done anything to help preserve these sorts of things.
That, coupled with all sorts of Chinese stereotypes and slurs that happen to
pop up in this outrage, makes me think it's less about an ancient artifact and
more about getting their weekly fill of hating a faceless "other." You don't
see the same hate for all of the American tourists who write their names on
the Great Wall[0] or the Colosseum.[1]

Seriously, what do they want from him now? What sort of responsibility do they
want him to take, years after it happened? Beat him, as the top comment on NBC
News (and many other sites) suggested? Ridiculous. Pay restitution to the
Egyptian government? I'm sure neither one of these governments care enough to
waste time over such a trivial matter as graffiti, and it's not like China is
a stranger to people messing with ancient pieces of their society.

So, really, most of the people "outraged" have acted more disgracefully than
that child.

[0]: <http://i.imgur.com/rNsPC6V.jpg>

[1]:
[http://www.hotsr.com/content/uploads/pictures/2013/01/Italy-...](http://www.hotsr.com/content/uploads/pictures/2013/01/Italy-
Colorful-Coloss_Rasm.jpg)

~~~
jlgreco
> _None of these people really have any right to be upset; they didn't care
> about the artifact, they've probably never been to a museum, let alone done
> anything to help preserve these sorts of things._

Would you say the same of everyone who was horrified by the dynamiting of the
Buddhas of Bamiyan?

I find your concept of "'right' to be upset" to be rather suspect.

~~~
ceol
I would most certainly say the same to a bunch of anonymous, self-righteous
Westerners crying for retribution in between parrotting disgusting
stereotypes. But I'm not sure how you could think a child tourist scrawling
his name on a statue is equivalent to a hateful organization completely
destroying a monument.

~~~
jlgreco
I never stated that I thought they were equivalent, either in magnitude or
severity. You are putting words in my mouth.

~~~
ceol
If you do not believe they are equivalent, then there was no point in asking
if I would act the same way for both situations.

I understand you were trying to show some sort of hypocrisy in my logic, but
that isn't an argument in itself, and since, by your own admission, they are
different situations, it's wrong to compare them in the first place.

~~~
jlgreco
I believe that both situations have plenty of parrallels, but are not
_equivalent_. Obviously blowing up multi-ton statues with explosives and
graffiti are two very different activities in magnitude and severity.
Nevertheless, they have many clear parallels.

My objection is to your assertion that some people are allowed to express
their objection to the art and some people are not.

Many "westerners" who have never been in that hemisphere, nor have an
particular interest in art, objected loudly to the dynamiting of those
statues. Some of them did so anonymously on the internet.

Is this okay because that act was more energetic, dramatic, and irreversible
_(the reason the two acts cannot be said to be equivalent)_? Is it okay for
another reason? (I don't know what standard you are using to determine if
somebody is _"self-righteous"_ , so perhaps that is the difference to you?) Or
perhaps do you think that it was not okay for "westerners" who didn't care
about art to object to that act anonymously on the internet?

These specific objections that you raised _("westerners", "anonymous", "don't
care about the art anyway", "self-righteous")_ make much sense to me (you
offered them with little to no justification), and I am trying to grok the
extent to which you think they are valid.

~~~
ceol
I'm mostly talking about the folks who are calling for this kid, or his
parents, to be beaten, fined, or punished in some way. I'm also talking about
the people who use it as an excuse to complain about how Chinese people are
louder, ruder, or generally worse than other cultures.

I don't have a problem with people complaining about defacing artifacts in
general. It's shameful. But this kid was one of many who wrote his name on
that statue, and one of many who defaced an ancient artifact as a tourist in
another country. It only takes a few seconds to realize that to be the case,
so the people condemning the child specifically are narrow-minded and probably
just out to get their fill of hate, in my opinion.

~~~
jlgreco
> _"I'm mostly talking about the folks who are calling for this kid, or his
> parents, to be beaten, fined, or punished in some way. I'm also talking
> about the people who use it as an excuse to complain about how Chinese
> people are louder, ruder, or generally worse than other cultures."_

These people are without doubt going to far, but I see no reason to say that
they don't have a right to be offended in any capacity.

The problem is that they are being racist and calling for brutal punishment,
_not_ that they are westerners, don't care about art, anonymous, or self-
righteous. Those things are perfectly fine (or in the case of "self-
righteous", ambiguous.)

------
wavefunction
It comes down to manners, something that seem to be lacking all over the
world. I've had to prompt parents to stop their kids from touching (more like
pawing) artwork in museums and crawling all over historical sites, and the
parents look at me like I'm an alien. It's all about them and their precious
little snowflake, rather than appreciating the art or history.

You can see it in the parents' apologia for their son's atrocious behavior,
focused on how their son is a "good student" which has nothing to do with
anything.

>>They also confessed that they had not been watching their son while on tour
in Egypt

How long did it take him to carve the characters. Was he really unsupervised
that long???

Keep in mind also this kid and his family are very fortunate to be able to
travel overseas and see these priceless treasures, especially considering how
poor most of his countrymen still are.

------
oneiros
I find this quite amusing. Yes, it was out of place for the kid to deface the
wall. Yes, he should have thought twice before proceeding with his actions,
but at the end of the day, this is nothing more than a material object.

People are so quick to bash on somebody, as evident in the comments on the
article. This raises the question of whether the true issue is that the kid
did something that was immoral, or that these commenters and those other
people who are lashing out in anger in response to this are merely using this
as a way to feed their ego, or possibly as a way to justify something that
they've done, that caused others to consider them to be "stupid,
"irresponsible", etc.

My heart aches for each time I see a child, and often an adult, kill, a living
creature. Something even so small as a fly, killed just because the fact that
it is a fly and considered "annoying". Everyone has a right to life, a scratch
in some 3.4 thousand year old limestone wall is not going to hurt anybody. In
fact, three millennia into the future, people might regard that very same
scratch to be of important historical value. The fact that people are focusing
so much anger and hatred to this naive child, instead of focusing on something
more important such as spreading peace and love, saddens me. And how ironic,
that the very same people who are so against graffiti, graffiti on something
themselves.

The reason that these artifacts exist is to tell a story, the true value in
these is not the material aspect of this artifact, but the _informational_
value. The information, although now slightly altered, is not destroyed. This
is what is important. And I don't doubt that there is photographic evidence of
the egyptian glyph in it's preexisting form archived somewhere, possibly in a
library.

If you _really_ wanted to deface it, you'd need to find a way to remove it
from history. Only then will it's true purpose, historical archive of an
important message, will be defeated.

And think about this, for everyone complaining about him defacing the
artifact, wake up, you probably deface the oldest artifact in existence every
day. The earth itself.

~~~
Smudge
There's informational value, sure. Historical value, aesthetic value,
certainly some material value. And, sure at the end of the day, it's one small
scratch on one artifact in one small part of the world. But if this kid's
behavior is okay, then where do you draw the line? Can everyone etch their
names in ancient sculptures and artifacts? Why not take some of it home with
you? (After all, removing one stone out of thousands hardly affects the
historical value of a site, no?)

You see where I'm going with this. We react so strongly to one small incident
of graffiti because it's simply not sustainable. I'd like my kids (and their
kids) to be able to visit sites like, say, the Acropolis in Greece and find
the Parthenon (which was historically subject to a ton of looting and careless
damage) as well-preserved as possible.

One could always make the case that it's not worth preserving these sites at
all, but that's a different argument, and those of us who are interested in
the historical value would certainly beg to differ.

------
INTPenis
Call me radical, I think we should legalize both all drugs and all graffiti.
To be honest, I don't think this should be a big deal.

We should teach the cycles that civilizations have gone through, we should
teach all we know about former civilizations, but I don't think we should
treat their old stones as sacred.

I think we should build new, ontop of the old. You can't build something new
without destroying the old, sometimes.

~~~
subsection1h

        I think we should legalize both all drugs and all graffiti.
    

Please provide your home address so I can spray paint "Convicted Child
Molester" on your home and car. Thanks.

------
human_error
Wasn't there a guard or someone in charge to stop him scrawling his name? It
should take long enough to notice scrawling something that large.

~~~
est
Interesting fact: the sculpture is full of graffiti. However, the Chinese
characters are easier to spot

------
meerkat
I hope there will be a day when what one visible minority does doesn't reflect
badly on his entire race. Not just thinking about what this Chinese kid did,
but also about those two guys who killed that British serviceman. Muslims
living in England must be on edge right now.

------
shellehs
In Chinese traditional culture, to write poems or paint on places or buildings
or something, is some kinda, honor(?). And more famous persons's writing or
painting, more famous the place to be. Then, the words or paints became
important components of the place. It looks not shame, or bad but some
behavior of culture.

Even one place is known by few people or none, or landscape is not attracting,
if some well-known person defaced, then it will be well-known and be
attracting.

Chinese belief in that nature and culture should be harmony. Later travelers
come to see not only how beautiful the place, but also the marks left by whom,
and how the words and paintings effected people to evaluate the place.

Now, people think to do so is damage the place.. It's bad, people who did that
will be punished.

My point is, anything illegal, should be punished or maybe then discussed. If
not, should be discussed.

~~~
shellehs
looks some one negative my comment.

Could I have the reason why you think it's shitty?

Did I say something wrong? or unproper?

~~~
Gigablah
Your point isn't unique to Chinese culture.

Plus, the boy who wrote his own name didn't even have decent handwriting.

------
Shorel
I find that part of oriental culture great.

Had any of my classmates done something similar, their parents would have
denied everything, downplayed the damage, and in general be overprotective and
caring only about themselves.

------
b6
Note, when they say "quality and breeding", I'm pretty sure they're using a
poor translation of the word 素质. I would translate it more like "character". I
think it means how you behave when no one is looking.

------
cpeterso
Why does the NBC headline need to mention that the boy is Chinese?

~~~
JungleGymSam
Because it's a relevant fact.

edit: By the way I find it very sexist they mentioned he was a boy.

