
The Mammoth Pirates - devnonymous
https://www.rferl.org/a/the-mammoth-pirates/27939865.html
======
adamnemecek
Sales of mammoth ivory should be banned, just like the sales of elephant
ivory. Distinguishing mammoth ivory from elephant ivory is pretty hard and as
a result sales of mammoth ivory can act as a cover for sales of illegal
elephant ivory.

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eru
I wonder whether raising elephants for ivory (and meat?) could actually work?

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adamnemecek
No, it wouldn't. Besides the ethical problems, it's not possible economically
and zoologically. I'm kind of disturbed that this suggestion is so prevalent.

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gumby
> I'm kind of disturbed that this suggestion is so prevalent.

I don't think you should be. I'm glad people are thinking up solutions, even
if they turn out not to work.

It isn't an unreasonable naive idea. After all, domestication (turning them
into symbiotes) has helped some species enormously. Others that could not be
domesticated (e.g. whales) have survived only thanks to technological change.
Even "wild" animals like deer and trout survive through a symbiotic
relationship.

Yes, I understand it doesn't make sense for elephants in particular, and of
course domesticating some animals usually spells doom for others. So I
understand there's an argument to be made that domestication is inherently bad
-- one I disagree with but there's a legit case to be made. But I'm glad
people actually care.

~~~
adamnemecek
> It isn't an unreasonable naive idea.

It's fundamentally misguided and it's not a solution. Between elephant
extinction and elephant suffering, I will go with extinction every time.

Elephants are important for the ecosystem, IIRC something like 70% of all
species in certain areas rely on them. If you remove them from the ecosystem
by domesticating them, you are doing a damaging the ecosystem in multiple way.

No, elephants can't be contained on a farm. They are meant to roam whereby
they disseminate seed of certain plants that rely on them to be disseminated.

Is that enough of a reason? Libertarianism is the answer only when you care
about simple answers, not about working answers.

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PhasmaFelis
> _Elephants are important for the ecosystem, IIRC something like 70% of all
> species in certain areas rely on them. If you remove them from the ecosystem
> by domesticating them, you are doing a damaging the ecosystem in multiple
> way._

I'm not sure why you think this is an either/or proposition. I mean, I accept
that farming elephants isn't practical for a lot of reasons, but no one's
talking about putting every living elephant on a farm.

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adamnemecek
Effectively that's what would happen under a legal ivory sales system.
Poachers would effectively wipe them out in the wild.

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PhasmaFelis
Which they're doing anyway. It might not improve the situation, but it can
hardly make it worse.

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adamnemecek
No universally no. Countries that have shoot in sight poaching policies have
very low poaching rates.

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PhasmaFelis
Why would that change if elephants were also farmed?

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adamnemecek
There are other ways of making the situation better?

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eru
The perfect is the enemy of the good?

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morsch
Can't help but think that this is one of the utterly bizarre and wide ranging
consequences of extreme income disparity.

The original article is at [1] (they link to it, but it's kinda easy to miss);
the post on Bored Panda does contain additional photos.

[1] [https://www.rferl.org/a/the-mammoth-
pirates/27939865.html](https://www.rferl.org/a/the-mammoth-
pirates/27939865.html)

~~~
nikcub
Bored Panda appear to have ripped off the original source wholesale .. wonder
what is up with that.

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wojg
They did so without our permission, as you can see from the watermark on the
photos.

~~~
nikcub
Oh man, I suspected it but to have it confirmed really sucks.

I just noticed their post had 1.1M views and they _still_ haven't updated the
story or left a note.

If you're thinking about what to do next - try a DMCA to them and copied to
abuse@ for their hosting provider. Ditto same report to their ad networks or
exchanges (that can sometimes be _really_ effective in changing behavior)

edit: btw brilliant work, I really enjoyed it.

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guest
I was suprised to see that none had commented on draining the possible
genepool for Mammoth yet?

These "miners" are bound to reduce the available DNA for researchers that do
work within this field, humans likely killed off the mammoth - if we brought
it back it could serve to upkeep large quantities of open grounds (believe it
or not but herds are important to grasslands and soilvalue).

Either there should be a larger rewards than the bones can offer and a get out
of jail freecard for the offense if fresh DNA or what to is believed to be
such is found (so that scientifical extraction is possible on site).

Or the regulation should be strengthened, both the governement and the
criminal networks should realise what a potential goldmine living and breeding
mammothherds could be for russia...

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userbinator
[http://www.bbc.com/news/science-
environment-32432693](http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-32432693)

AFAIK the problems with creating a living mammoth are not in extracting DNA
but in the other "implementation details", since we already know the complete
genome.

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jessriedel
Sequencing the genome of a species means you have a typical (or maybe modal)
sequence of an individual. The GP is specifically talking about the gene pool,
which is the set of variations with respect to the modal genome.

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PeterisP
This is almost like improvised strip mining. The RFERL article states that one
of these teams went through 5 tons of gasoline for the water pumps blasting
that mud apart; it's obviously also a major investment that you may simply
gamble away..

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PhasmaFelis
And usually do. The video I saw said that something like 30% of tuskers break
even; the rest wind up penniless, and often with large loans.

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stronglikedan
Josh Gates and crew went and documented this for an episode of Expedition
Unknown [0]. I don't envy those guys, but I found the process fascinating.

[0] [http://www.travelchannel.com/shows/expedition-
unknown/episod...](http://www.travelchannel.com/shows/expedition-
unknown/episodes/woolly-mammoth-part-2)

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appleflaxen
Those mosquito feet. That's like a photograph of pure misery.

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prawn
As someone who is like a delicacy for mosquitos, that photo was seriously
disturbing.

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NicoJuicy
Fake ivory/lab grown, drop prices. Is that a viable solution?

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matthewhall
There's still adventure out there.

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ceworthington
Here's a link to the actual work - which is impressively presented - instead
of this BoredPanda nonsense which is little more than bootleg theft.

[https://www.rferl.org/a/the-mammoth-
pirates/27939865.html](https://www.rferl.org/a/the-mammoth-
pirates/27939865.html)

~~~
wojg
Thanks! I produced the piece. Nice to see it here on HN.

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lostlogin
Great article thanks. How did you get agreement from the tuskers to go with
them, or even find out where to try meeting them?

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wojg
I'm not the photographer, I put the site together. Our photo journalist, Amos,
met one of the tuskers on another reporting trip (which I also produced),
called On Siberia's Ice Highway.

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wojg
Here's the other piece: [https://www.rferl.org/a/on-siberias-ice-
highway/27706633.htm...](https://www.rferl.org/a/on-siberias-ice-
highway/27706633.html?nocache=1)

~~~
broken_symlink
I really enjoy reading these types of interactive stories. Good work!

