
How female elk adjust behaviour with age to avoid hunters - Tomte
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/file?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0178082&type=printable
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jboggan
I hunt elk and this is not surprising at all. They are quite aware of the
hunting seasons and the boundaries of hunting areas and they have completely
different behaviors around those transitions. They will graze openly on
hillsides in abundance right up to the open of the season, at which point they
"go to ground" and disappear deep into the creek bottoms and wallows. There
are some old and absolutely huge ones running around (from fresh sign we spot)
but you never see them because they are very cautious.

Particularly with the older and wiser males, the only time we catch one is at
extremely close range while stalking through bedding areas off-trail.

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zukzuk
I'm totally perplexed at how you can appreciate something and still want to
kill it.

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jdavis703
I write this as a vegetarian (and former vegan). Do you appreciate plants? I
know I sure do. Do I still kill them? Of course.

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__s
Let's apply that argument to killing humans now. Original post is getting at
appreciation of this learning behavior. One may say the elk isn't doing this
intelligently, drawing on examples such as dandelions which learn to not grow
so tall after being mowed

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c22
I don't understand the application. Is it your stance that murderers are
incapable of any appreciation for other humans? What about those who have
killed others "justly", e.g. soldiers or executioners?

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niksakl
Are you suggesting that if he had claimed that he generally appreciates elks
but not the ones he kills, would make more sense?

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c22
Nah, I'm suggesting that a decision to kill something is not necessarily the
same as a decision to destroy something and may be motivated by more factors
than simply how much one appreciates that thing. I appreciate the intricate
webs that spiders weave and their impact on the other insect population around
me but I will totally squish one if she happens upon me in the wrong
situation. I imagine for hunters the appreciation of their prey's complex
behaviours may even be part of the appeal.

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niksakl
Obviously then, you appreciate "having a clean, web-free house" more compared
to the contribution of the webs in your home to the environment. Same same
way, the hunter appreciates his hunting activity more compared to how much he
appreciates his pray. Which makes the statement "I appreciate my pray"
meaningless in the context of hunting. If you only hunt in a life threatening
hunger situation, then obviously appreciate your own life more than the
pray's. If you hunt for sports, then you appreciate your hobby more than your
pray's life, and so on...

(I am a meat-eater, just pointing out something I find funny in such
statements)

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c22
I'm afraid you've misunderstood me again--I usually leave the webs in and
around my house, I appreciate their beauty and their utility. I am not a
hunter of spiders, for sport or otherwise. I offered the example only to show
how in some contexts I might destroy something _even though I appreciate it_.

I believe we may each be using the word "appreciate" with subtly different
definitions. I believe it's possible to appreciate aspects of a thing without
necessarily collapsing them all into some sort of comparison of perceived
total value. I think it's possible that someone who hunts for sustenance might
also come to treat the activity as somewhat of a sport, or an art, and so come
to appreciate aspects of the activity including the intelligent behaviours of
the prey.

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niksakl
No I have not misunderstood you, maybe I haven't made myself clear enough(not
a native English speaker here...). As you also say, the context itself is what
matters. For example, today I would guess most e.g. Canadians do not hunt for
survival. Having a Canadian hunter saying "I hunt elks for sports, but I
appreciate them", is kind of funny and meaningless. In the context of hunting
for sports, it is pointless to say "but I appreciate them". If you beat up
your neighbor cause he attacked you with an axe, and you needed to save your
life, it is pointless to say that you appreciate him. It is clear you did what
you did, cause you appreciate your own existence more than him. It is equally
pointless to say "but I appreciate him" after making clear that you beat him
up, cause you din't like his face. In both cases, the context is clear and
thus the level of appreciation to the other party. Stating "but..." is
meaningless. That for, my understanding of what the level of appreciation of
someone hunting for sports towards his pray, is that it is very low by my
standards.

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dsfyu404ed
Documenting and quantifying the obvious might not be glamorous but someone's
gotta do it.

Many species have similar learned adaptations to the dangers in their
environment. Anyone who's fished saltwater and a range of freshwater
environments will be able to vouch for this being readily observable.

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Tomte
I don't have an English-speaking article handy, but female deer in the
Bohemian Forest are still walking up to where barbed wire was during the Cold
War, and turn around.

They have learned that they couldn't get further and have imprinted that
"knowledge" to their offspring.

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iak8god
This is fascinating. Here's an article that mentions it:
[http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/1.572417](http://www.haaretz.com/world-
news/1.572417)

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habeebtc
This shouldn't really surprise outdoorsmen overly much. The big game (for me,
fish) are almost always more wily, because they've had to be to reach their
advanced age and size.

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sleepybrett
My parent's have a cabin along the white river up near mt. rainier. There is
no hunting on our side of the river and it's super clear that the elk know it.

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keeptrying
Do you see large groups of them? Photos?

