
Opera 15 Preview for Windows and Mac with Chromium Engine Released - Indyan
http://business.opera.com/press/releases/desktop/2013-05-28
======
bobsy
I don't get it. Maybe i misremember but I thought Opera was a feature rich
browser with an email client, widgets and a bunch of other stuff.

Now mail has been shunted into its own product. I don't see widgets. It really
looks and feels like a skin for Chrome and nothing more which makes me wonder
what the point is. If I want Chrome I will use Chrome.

OK, this is a preview but the news doesn't suggest any of these old features
are coming across.

~~~
andreastt
I'm biased since I've worked on it, but I personally find the native UI a
pretty major thing.

~~~
dreadynot
I wish I could have tried it but as usual no love for linux users from opera,
or much delayed love.

But still I have a hard time thinking that removing many features, not
improving features that have been broken for years while almost doubling the
size of the download is any kind of improvement.

I wish opera would release their engine as opensource so people can take it up
from there. I don't want no google/apple browser or webkit only web
experience.

~~~
Ziomislaw
you are mistaken, there is a lot of love to unix'ish systems. for example
opera is the only "popular" browser with packages for freebsd.

This is a new product so I would be _very_ suprised if they didn't limit the
amount of platforms they released it initially to.

------
anonymfus
No middle click on tab bar to create new tab.

Simple mouse gestures work, but without visual guide, configuration and
without right click + scroll.

Most horrible thing: MDI don't work. Popups opens in new window, like other
browsers, instead of new tabs, like old Opera! Alerts currently don't have any
chrome, so may be they would develop this later.

Opera Link don't work.

Text selection in links via mouse don't work.

No sidebar.

Verdict: in current state unusable for old Opera users.

~~~
anonymfus
Below there is a list not so important missing features.

No thumbnails/previews in tab bar.

No any customisation of toolbars.

No fast forward.

One-key keyboard shortcuts work, but funny: in text boxes they work
simultaneous with text input.

Ctrl+Z don't open old tabs.

No image properties, so no EXIF viewer.

~~~
andreastt
Guys, please remember that the browser has been rebuilt from scratch. It's
going to take a while to get all of the features we want back in.

~~~
blaabjerg
What makes you think they intend to get all the features we want back in? I
hope you're right, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that's the case.

~~~
t0mislav
I'm afraid bunch of features will never came back, but hope I'm wrong.
Settings menu looks terrible, everything is missing.

------
klausa
Sigh...

I was hoping they'd keep UI, just swap the internals. That was main reason I
used Opera - I feel like it's interface was much more powerful than those of
other browsers, but engine performance just wasn't there.

But this doesn't bear any resemblance to Opera I knew and liked.

No pinned tabs. No 'paste-and-go'. No... nothing.

I fully understand why they did it, and it very well might be just what they
needed to do to survive, I won't be looking back.

...and I was hoping to ditch Safari :(

~~~
nuttendorfer
Keep in mind that this is just a preview, a work in progress until they are
back at where they were!

------
porker
If the mail client is good, then having it stand-alone is a great idea - with
Thunderbird no longer updated I could do with an alternative on Windows
(something that uses less RAM than keeping GMail open in a Chrome tab...)

~~~
kyrias

        > with Thunderbird no longer updated
    

What are you talking about?

~~~
cookiecaper
Mozilla recently placed Thunderbird in a maintenance-only state, where active
feature development has ceased but stability, security, and speed improvements
will continue to be merged. This is why Thunderbird is on v17 instead of
Firefox's v21 after graduating versions in lockstep with Fx for a while.

It doesn't mean they won't _accept_ features, they've just stated that they're
not going to be focusing any of their development wherewithal on these.

Personally I think it's a good move as TB has plenty of features for a mail
client but could really do with some optimization to speed and memory usage.

~~~
learningram
So what would be a good client on Windows ?

~~~
Myrth
I was just recently trying eM Client, was happy at the beginning as it has
nice interface and integrates with GMail contacts and calendar. Was
considering even buying the license. But then I started having contact
local/remote sync conflicts without having them changed on either side. And
then while the modal was blocking UI, it apparently was blocking the
scheduler, so it was queuing all mailbox sync operations and performs ALL of
them multiple times after modal is closed...

So I guess back to Opera Mail. Other ones like TB, Sylpheed don't cut it for
me.. I guess they have UI and network actions within the same thread, and that
makes them get stuck.

~~~
grepfruit
The sync conflicts are certainly not a usual thing to happen if no change has
happened on either side.

Also the modal UI blocks only the one sync queue - i.e. the one for contacts &
calendars in that account. All other accounts including mails for that same
account should continue syncing.

I'd love to help you with those issues - you can contact me at
grafnetr@emclient.com

------
JungleGymSam
Just installed it and my only comment so far is that, when maximized, there is
a non-clickable gap between the top of a top and the top of the screen. This
is a big usability mistake so I hope they correct it at some point. Firefox
does this too and it drives me insane. Chrome is the only one (that I use)
that does it right.

~~~
gkoberger
Operating system? You should file a bug against Firefox (and Opera, I
suppose.)

~~~
nuttendorfer
This has been this way for the last few versions or rather since they changed
the UI in version 11 I think. This allows you do double click this array to
return to window mode or "drag it down" from maximized which will return it to
window mode (Windows).

~~~
HelloMcFly
What OS? I have Firefox for Windows and have no unclickable space between the
top of the tabs and top of the screen. I've never experienced that before on
any release I can remember.

~~~
JungleGymSam
See here: <http://i.imgur.com/6LFXPbV.png>

You don't have that tiny (2px?) gap?

~~~
HelloMcFly
I do have that gap visually, but I can click on it to focus on that tab.

------
bambax
Remember this ad, from exactly three years ago:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaT7thTxyq8>

And now after all this, they made Opera just a skin for Chrome?

These people have no respect for themselves.

~~~
omgmog
It's still faster than a potato!

------
ksec
Opera used to Pack all the features of a browser and email and more into a
15MB downloadable exe. Now the browser itself is 25MB already

This is Chrome. I was hoping for Tab Overflow? No Drop Down list of Open Tabs.

They kept it like Opera, which means no H.264 support.

Basically that means i am sticking to Firefox.

------
fetbaffe
The performance is amazing!

Simple selector test

<http://jsperf.com/jquery-selectors-vs-native-api/7>

On my machine

document.getElementById

Opera 12.15: 2,089,859 Opera next: 15,609,851

~~~
terhechte
The interesting question is, what do you get in Chrome. Obviously chromium is
faster than the old Opera, the question is what has the new Opera to offer
against the standard Chromium.

~~~
fetbaffe
My Chrome version 27 on the same machine

14,376,750

Opera next is reported as Chrome version 28.

~~~
notrub225
My Chrome Canary is version 29 tho

------
upthedale
Does this use the same process-per-tab sandboxing that Chrome uses? I'm one of
those crazy users with far too many tabs, and I was always sceptical that
Chrome would be able to handle them all. Opera always ran happily with 100+
tabs.

Perhaps this is the reason for the introduction of the 'stash', which in
fairness might be a better solution (as I'm not necessarily defending 100+
tabs, but its a habit that has worked for me so far)

~~~
andybak
I was a 100 tab kind of guy but this has helped me kick the habit:
<http://www.one-tab.com/>

~~~
Tomis02
That site seems to be created specifically for bloated browsers like Chrome.
1981 MB memory used for around 20 tabs? That's crazy. And why would you pack
so many tabs on just one single line?

In Opera you can (at least for now) wrap your tab bar on multiple lines, show
an extender menu, disable it (and scroll with right mb + wheel) or simply move
the tab bar on the left/right side of the screen, while having a decent
resource consumption, all out of the box.

Edit: now I realized it is indeed created specifically for Chrome, it's an
extension that tries to help circumvent poor browser design.

------
ohwp
I didn't test this one, but the new mobile version of Opera is horrible. I
like Opera very much and I just can't believe they released this mobile
version (also take a look at the latest reviews:
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.opera.brow...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.opera.browser)).

It feels like Opera is having a very hard time to keep its head above the
water.

~~~
kmfrk
They had to release a Classic version as a result:
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.opera.brow...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.opera.browser.classic&feature=more_from_developer#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEwMiwiY29tLm9wZXJhLmJyb3dzZXIuY2xhc3NpYyJd).

------
lulzzz
I see a lot of complaining around here.

Apparently people are forgetting that this a preview release.

The features familiar to Opera users that are missing will be added in the
next iterations.

It's a clear and simple thing to understand. Quit whining already.

------
pepijndevos
Every change will break someones workflow.

<http://xkcd.com/1172/>

------
twenty2
Let's try to put this in some perspective: this is a 'new product' 'built from
scratch' that has been provided at a version 1 'alpha release' level by an
independent browser company based on a tried and tested rendering engine.

Like most users there are some features I will sorely miss here but I'm going
to give it a try for a few days. See how things go from there.

Seems like Opera has given us a lot of innovation in the past. Most people
might miss the significance of the change to Chromium for a small company like
Opera. My gut feeling is that once they get over this initial bump in the road
we will see a lot more existing and new features come our way (at least I will
hold on to that thought!). I suspect they have much more time to focus on
adding cool stuff now rather than keeping their head above water and we should
all get a first-rate new browser to play with as a result.

Let's see what happens but I won't ever pass judgement on any first ever
'built from scratch' 'alpha' release of something.

~~~
SG-
I'm not exactly sure "built from scratch" applies to this new browser
considering it mostly just seems to be Chrome at this point and not really
bringing many features from older Opera.

------
mrweasel
It really fascinates me that no one, not even in the comments on the Opera
blog, seems to have noticed that you cannot add a new search engine. I guess
people are happy as long as Google is available.

Opera Next aren't going to be released next week, so they can still migrate a
lot of features, but I do agree with those who are concerned that they won't
manage to move "enough" features to keep all their old users. I also wonder
how fare they are will to diverge from Chromium, the further away they go, the
harder it might be to keep in sync.

One have to wonder: "How important is the desktop browser to Opera business?"
Do they make enough money on the desktop version to make it worth porting
every single feature in order to keep all their current users?

------
lepunk
Opera has been my primary browser since version 9 or so. When I heard the
announcement that they will use the Chromium engine I was actually quite
happy. They have been contributing to web standards a lot and with the power
of the Chrome community I'm sure we will see big innovations.

However this preview release is a big downer for me. I know it is a work in
progress but it is missing some key features like the RSS reader, the ctrl + z
combo to bring back closed tabs and many more. So I'm not switching just yet
but I'm hopeful.

~~~
lepunk
also i found ctrl + shift + L is missing which was an excellent way to export
all links from a page (like an apache index-of page)

and the biggest annoyance (which was only working in opera before): i usually
set up custom domains to my local development like lepunk.loc or similar.
opera used to interpret it correctly but now it does what any other browser
do: does a google search

------
dalys
I just tried the Peacekeeper benchmark from Futuremark
(<http://peacekeeper.futuremark.com/>) on both Chrome and Opera Next on
Windows 8 x64.

The results:

Chrome Version 26.0.1410.64 m: 2418 points, HTML5 Capabilities 5/7

Opera Next Version 15.0.1147.18: 4248 points, HTML5 Capabilities 5/7

Anyone else get similar results?

~~~
lovamova
That's because Opera 15 is based on Chrome 28.

~~~
notrub225
Yep, a better comparison would be Opera Next and Chrome Canary

------
dubcanada
I didn't know Opera mail was so good. Now I want it to be bundled with Opera.
It's pretty awesome. Except I wish they had a "All Mail" folder... rather then
this rather confusing

"Unread" and "Received" folders, that seem to contain pretty much the same
thing until you read them, then it is removed from both.

~~~
blaabjerg
That sounds like a bug. "Received" is supposed to be like "all [received]
mail", both read and unread. Works like a charm on 12.15.

------
jameswyse
I've never been much of an Opera fan but this is looking really nice. The
speed dial and stash features look like a good replacement for bookmarks too.

I'd try it out full-time but I can't live without my 1password extension :/

------
dave1010uk
Here's a list of features supported by the latest Chrome and latest Opera
<http://caniuse.com/#compare=chrome+28,opera+12.1>

There's a couple of things that Opera might be loosing in this update, with
the switch to Blink. Hopefully anything the do loose they'll be able to port
over soon.

~~~
claudius
The most annoying feature in Chrome to me is its inability to select text.
Yes, you read that right, it is impossible to select _text_ in Chrome.
Instead, what you get is selected elements – divs, headlines and the like,
which causes horrible breakage if you just want to select (and then copy)
simple letters.

~~~
lostsock
Huh? I'm using chrome now and can easily select single letters, words or your
whole comment. Care to elaborate?

Windows 7 - Version 27.0.1453.94 m (which BTWI copied and pasted from Chromes
about page)

~~~
shrikant
This is what claudius means (screenshots from the latest versions running on
Ubuntu 13.04):

Firefox: <http://i.imgur.com/2yPmm0K.png>

Chrome: <http://i.imgur.com/EXz8wQF.png>

FWIW, I have the not uncommon affliction of selecting text on articles and
blog posts as I read along. Chrome's text selection "paradigm" is greatly
annoying as it tends to be a little, uh, unpredictable on layouts with a
middling level of complexity.

~~~
lostsock
Ahh yep, think I understand now. Thanks for the screenshots :)

Edit: And now that you've pointed it out the way that chrome does it is really
annoying!

------
ZeWaren
Also, I can't find how to put my tabs on the left side of the window.

I don't think I can live without this anymore. What's the point of having wide
screens if you stack everything vertically?

I also hope they won't remove the bookmark panel. Having your entire bookmark
tree open anytime is a very pleasant feature in my opinion.

~~~
brainburn
Tabs on the left is so awesome. First thing I checked, sad to not see it
included :(

Firefox has a plugin for it but it's all just too sluggish.

I'll just use the old opera for now.

~~~
atesti
Even with chrome you can have it (or has it been removed recently?)! It was in
chrome://flags!

------
kmfrk
This is a bigger PR disaster than Xbox One. Everyone is criticizing Opera for
the gutted features.

~~~
Geee
These are the old users who are whining. Opera's old user base is a good
riddance. Opera was a slow, bloated browser, which no-one wanted to use. Now
it has a chance at being a decent browser and acquiring a new user base, who
doesn't care about those 'gutted features'.

~~~
kmfrk

        Now it has a chance at being a decent browser and 
        acquiring a new user base, who doesn't care about those 
        'gutted features'.
    

By doing what, exactly?

------
nnnnni
Here's my question… If it's basically just a reskinned Chromium, why even
bother with it?

------
bdz
No built in Flash? I mean it's kind of a dealbreaker in Chrome, not just
against Opera but Safari too.

You don't need to install any Adobe crapware, still you can use it. Also you
can disable it and set it up to use it like the Click-to-Flash extension.

------
michalstanko
While I understand what drove the decision to start using Webkit, I was hoping
for a more Opera-like UI and experience. All the power features are gone.
Unfortunately this preview looks like just another Yandex browser.

------
iopq
It's like I'm really using Chrome! Although probably everyone saw this coming
- it's just a skin of Chromium. They just took a few months to make a new mail
client and put Opera icons everywhere.

~~~
faaaah
It's not just a skin. It's a new interface remade from scratch. And unlike
Chrome it's actually native. Must have been a massive undertaking.

The new email client seems to be the old Opera only with browsing features
removed. Must have been a quick job.

So on both of these it's the opposite of what you are claiming...

~~~
ksec
It doesn;t allow Tab Overflow or any other UI features suggest to me this is
nothing more or a Rework of Skin instead of a whole new UI rewritten from
scratch.

~~~
faaaah
Pet features not being implemented yet doesn't mean it's a skin. Read what the
Opera devs are writing instead of speculating.

------
exterm
I think they have done a good job of making an opera-flavored chromium. It
already feels like opera in many ways. Now all we need is some more features.
I'm very excited for the next versions.

------
gtklocker
A thing I've noticed is that pinch to zoom is much more smooth than Chrome in
OS X.

How do I switch tabs using my keyboard? Cmd-<N> doesn't work, so does not Cmd-
Alt-Left|Right.

~~~
abrowne
Ctrl-tab works for cycling (and ctrl--shift-tab or ctrl-` for cycling in
reverse), but I too miss either cmd-opt-arrow or (my preference) cmd-shift-[
and -].

------
dubcanada
Can you install Google Chrome extensions to Opera Next?

~~~
exterm
You can't install them from the chrome store, but if the developer uploads the
to the opera add-on store you can install it.

------
nuttendorfer
Anybody know whether they plan to stick with Chromium or will switch to Blink
in the future?

~~~
jaredsohn
Yes. :)

By sticking with Chromium, Opera will automatically start using Blink when
Chromium starts using it.

~~~
nuttendorfer
Ha! Right, I meant Webkit in the OP, but that answered my question anyway.
Thanks!

------
srisa
Possibly off topic, but any idea as to what they are going to do with presto?

------
superdude
Have they removed bookmarks?

~~~
nuttendorfer
They are adding features as they go, so I might still come. Strange they left
out such an essential feature however.

------
aw3c2
This makes me wish to pay for Opera just so they keep it as great as it is.

------
mzelinka
I've just tryed it out and it looks awesome!! Good job Opera!

------
andrewcooke
does it show weird size variations on the text here? that's what i got with
chrome on android and why i switched to opera...

------
kmasters
Nice to see a company that cares about users up its game. Opera is now at the
forefront along with google, and unlike google, will actually make features
people want.

Never having to use the chrome bookmark manager again (or firefoxes or
safaris) is a huge sell for me.

As for all the features they dropped, Im sure there are or will be extensions
for that. Personally, I prefer the browser to be screaming fast with just
enough features that I need. I could never switch to opera in the past because
it was simply too slow.

Also, I wont get ads for Google products in browser or prompts to "login" to
my browser as Google has been doing lately. YAY!

