

Is turntable.fm legal? - almightygod
http://allthingsd.com/20110621/turntable-fm-really-is-awesome-is-it-legal/

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tuxidomasx
How does this sort of legal uncertainty factor into the way investors view a
product/company? On one hand, I feel like the risk could make it a less
attractive investment since its an extra liability.

Or would it be a reason for founders to ask for more money, under the idea
that they need a warchest of funds to fight expensive lawsuits?

On the other hand, being in a legal grey area could be seen as a barrier to
entry for people who don't want a potential litigation nightmare hovering over
their heads.

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apgwoz
Don't they use, and have an agreement with MediaNet
(<http://www.mndigital.com/>) which provides all the licensing they need
(since MediaNet has deals in place with the record labels)?

~~~
eli
They have an agreement with MediaNet yes, but it's definitely not some sort of
blanket immunity to use copyrighted music.

As a simple example: turntable allows uploads. What happens when I upload an
MP3 from a band that isn't part of the MediaNet catalog? And at what point
does streaming radio become a "digital locker"?

~~~
apgwoz
> Develop your own streaming or radio service. Pair this capability with our
> recommendation engine to have the ability to create track and/or artist
> based playlists on the fly with minimal effort.

(source: <http://www.mndigital.com/services/content-fulfillment.html>)

Seems pretty compelling that as a customer of MediaNet, their service (aside
from uploads) is totally legal, unless MediaNet is somehow not.

But they could simply turn off uploading should they be called out for that--I
should have addressed that in my original comment. My guess is that much of
the community wouldn't care if that feature was gone.

~~~
ethank
MediaNet is a product of the labels.It started in 2001 as Musicnet, created by
Real Networks, AOL Time Warner, Bertelsmann and EMI.

In my time at a label I tried to work with them, but their technology is kind
of awful, so I wouldn't be shocked if Turntable is looking for a better
partner.

Essentially they are a proxy between the label catalogs, reporting for
royalties and DSP's (digital service providers) who license and distribute
content.

Or as I referred to it internally, the "API Model"

Regarding the user uploaded stuff, that's under DMCA.

Of note: Turntable really falls into two licensing camps: DJ and listener.
Very different terms required.

~~~
ethank
The other company in this space: <http://developer.7digital.net/>

These guys have much better tech.

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gabaix
I don't like turntable. While the idea is appealing (streaming music for
friends or strangers), the UI is awful. There's too much color and
illustrations are not helping. I would be happy to help if founders are
reading this.

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cyanbane
I think the color and illustrations are what give it its appeal. It isn't your
run of the mill streaming service, its fun and it has its own character. I
currently pay for rdio and would probably pay a minimal amount for
turntable.fm also if it came to that being what had to be done to keep it
around.

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Stwerner
I wouldn't be surprised if they start seeing legal trouble soon if it hasn't
started already. I would gladly pay money to use it, if it comes to that, as I
haven't had this much fun with a site for a very long time.

~~~
almightygod
agreed - i think they could make considerable $ on affiliate traffic with
iTune/Amazon if they improved the process to bookmark songs and purchase later

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badclient
Disagree. You make pennies on an mp3 purchase at best. It takes a lot of
pennies and purchases just to hit 10 bucks.

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shmageggy
The entire traditional music licensing world is based on scaling up pennies
and it has provided real income for many for a long time.

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badclient
Pennies from radio play is different from pennies from an mp3 sale.

I don't know any start-up making significant $ from mp3 referral sales. Tops
they may make couple grand but that is not much when you are getting 5m
uniques(won't even pay for the streaming; and making 2k from mp3 affiliate
sales is tough even with 5M uniques.)

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cbs
_I’d say it’s astonishing no one has done it before, but it’s not: The music
business has a long tradition of resisting good ideas._

I'd say it's astonishing he doesn't know internet radio station have existed
for ages. It took a little bit more know how before getting getting put on the
web, but its always been there.

~~~
almightygod
turntable.fm is more then just an internet radio station. I've been
disappointed by those for the last generation (besides NPR) - now with
turntable.fm, I'm literally listening all day

