
Ishkur's Guide to Electronic Music - 1f97
http://music.ishkur.com/
======
lukey_q
Oh my gosh, I clicked expecting to see the classic old version... this is an
updated one!! It looks like this one even shows the progression of the sound
of a genre or subgenre over time, not just the other genres that came from it.

Forgive my excitement but damn, the original guide was an absolute treasure of
the early (at least for me) internet, and as a teenager getting into
electronic music but with no real local scene or context for any of this stuff
to say it was eye-opening is an understatement. Find a song or genre you liked
(for me it was early French Touch/filter house) and you could see similar
genres, plus what inspired it and what it inspired. And back then if you
weren't familiar with this stuff everything with electronic drums or synths
was lumped into "techno" (remember Eminem's infamous line about that) so it
was great to figure out the actual names of the genres and subgenres I was
into so I could dig deeper. Shout out to Ishkur, I'm obviously thrilled to see
this today.

~~~
harryh
BTW v2.5 of the guide can still be found here (requires flash):

[http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/](http://techno.org/electronic-
music-guide/)

------
bigiain
Some of these genre descriptions are _awesome!_ - th9s is from the LiquidFunk
subgenre of Drum n Bass:

"Just before the turn of the millenium is when a sufficient number of white
people were attending Jungle parties to the point where music writers and
magazines stopped calling it Jungle and rebranded it Drum n Bass, although the
partykids retained the label "junglists" and they're still called that today
(probably because "drumnbassists" isn't as catchy).

Not coincidentally this is also the point where the two-step drum kick takes
over everything, ushering in an age of mediocrity for a scene that was once
specifically noted for its unique and inventive drum programming. You might as
well call this Disco n Bass.

As if things couldn't get any worse for Disco n Bass, the lucrative
opportunity of mad festival money in the 2010s compelled it to whore itself
into a subgenre depository of shitty pop remixes heretofore known as
Dancefloor. If you hear a Lady Gaga or Taylor Swift or even Adele remix with a
powerful Pendulum two-step drum kick, it's technically Dancefloor: The end
game of pop music trendwhore oblivion. "

~~~
new_here
"The word Garage doesn't mean anything pertinent other than its name comes
from the legendary Paradise Garage nightclub in New York City where DJ Larry
Levan would play anything he damn well pleased."

"Today what most people think is House music is actually Garage. And what most
people think is Garage is some dodgy nonsense the British sharted into their
trousers. Someone should really try and set the record straight about that.
Like make a guide or something."

I love a bit of UK Garage but laughed out loud when I read that line about
trousers. This Ishkur guy is a beast.

------
dukeofharen
Yes, finally! Ishkur's original guide and Listology's Darktremor's top 400
trance list and Dazzamack's top 1000 EDM lists are what really got me into
electronic music!

I'm kinda bummed out right now that listology.com doesn't exist anymore :(

EDIT: For anyone interested, at the time, I downloaded both Darktremor's and
Dazzamack's lists. You can find them here:

[https://gist.github.com/dukeofharen/48450ec07254f82c7a9b5d77...](https://gist.github.com/dukeofharen/48450ec07254f82c7a9b5d77ee2bebf5)

[https://gist.github.com/dukeofharen/fff467f6fc7574864358f997...](https://gist.github.com/dukeofharen/fff467f6fc7574864358f9974d61ab0c)

I've downloaded a few other lists from Listology as well (progressive trance,
classic trance, best albums etc.). If anyone is interested, I could add these
to Github Gist as well.

~~~
saganus
Yeah, please upload them!

~~~
dukeofharen
See my reply on the original comment

------
DanAtC
Wow. 20 years in the making.

Be sure to check out his 15-hour, 3.5 decade-spanning mix
[https://mobile.twitter.com/Ishkur23/status/11632947429494456...](https://mobile.twitter.com/Ishkur23/status/1163294742949445632)

~~~
duncanawoods
A 2GB mp3 - woah!

Actual link for easier save-as: [http://ishkur.com/mixes/Ishkur_-
_The_Longplay.mp3](http://ishkur.com/mixes/Ishkur_-_The_Longplay.mp3)

------
easymodex
From the comments I was expecting a really cool site with a lot of knowledge,
but so far all I've seen is genre bashing. Since this is supposedly a general
guide on all electronic music, it's really unfortunate they need to convey
their negative opinions on everything that isn't their genre of choice. Either
Ishkur is getting old and resentful or we live on completely opposite sites of
music taste.

~~~
noonespecial
The "path of Ishkur" for most people is to arrive at the site, marvel at the
artistic layout and amount of info presented, then immediately drill down to
one's favorite genre to find... that Ishkur roasts it like an old episode of
SNL, mildly offending the casual visitor who feels their taste has been
somehow called out.

Later on one discovers that Ishkur roasts _all_ of the genres in similar
fashion and that this is part of the appeal. It is in the trashing of each
style that Ishkur reveals what makes that type of music unique.

~~~
JulianMorrison
He likes some of them. He _really likes_ acid house.

------
creatonez
This is missing all of the post-2011 dubstep subgenre stuff.

If you search "melodic dubstep" or "chillstep" there's lots of relatively
popular post-2011 stuff that's way more tasteful for a mass audience than
skrillex.

But that's just one branch. The other major branch is called "freeform bass"
or sometimes "spacebass". Certain bass music (post-2016?) no longer has a
clear genre definition, so we've literally adopted the term "freeform bass". A
lot of it is pretty good. But some of it overlaps with brostep/riddim.

~~~
jedimastert
I'd love to see something about tearout

Here's an example I found

[https://soundcloud.com/iamthedreameater/the-
cleansing](https://soundcloud.com/iamthedreameater/the-cleansing)

~~~
creatonez
> #Goat-Noises

Oh god. Not the soundcloud tag you want to be in.

------
unixhero
Whoa version 3?!?!?!?!?!?

Secretary; Cancel all my calls for today.

I have been waiting for this since what, 2003? He said it would cost him an
arm and a leg, by the time elapsed since that statement, I guess it did! I
assumed he had lost interest in this project, but no. Thanks Ishkur!!!

~~~
rzzzt
Here is a screenshot of the classic Flash version:
[https://www.electronicbeats.net/the-feed/ishkurs-guide-
elect...](https://www.electronicbeats.net/the-feed/ishkurs-guide-electronic-
music-will-updated-2017/)

------
ethbro
Does anyone have a donation link?

It'd be nice to chip something in for the work + streaming to the entire
internet right now.

------
noelwelsh
Does the author actually like any music? So far every description I've read
tells me that the music is either pretentious or a sell-out. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

Although this looks like a lot of work, a more positive guide would be vastly
more useful. Help me find the best of a genre, rather than telling me it all
devolved in trash. My metric so far is that if it's labelled pretentious I'll
probably like it.

~~~
RobertKerans
All music genres burn out, they all devolve into trash or repetition, so
inevitably every almost genre description is going to bookended with
when/why/how that happened else it wouldn't really be an accurate history.
There's no need for the hyperbolic "Does the author actually like any music?"
when about half the descriptions are him talking about great music

> The peak period for any popular genre is 3-5 years, and then everyone wants
> to move on to the big thing

~~~
noelwelsh
I agree, but read, say, the entry for Drill'n'Bass. This happens to be a genre
I like (Girl/Boy Song by Aphex Twin and and u-ziq's Lunatic Harness being some
favourites of mine). However, according to Ishkur "the result [is] not complex
... it [is] just busy and schizophrenic". So there we go. No redeeming
features here.

~~~
RobertKerans
But it _is_, as a rule, both busy and schizophrenic. It's neither complex nor
danceable; I like Aphex Twin a lot, but his contributions there, with
exceptions, tend to veer toward the "quite possibly just taking the piss" part
of his back catalogue -- notably none of the artists he mentions really
produced anything like their best work under that banner

~~~
noelwelsh
The point is not whether the music is busy etc. Yeah it is. The point is that
the author of the guide is excessively negative about many generes. According
to the guide drill n bass is all trash. He doesn't mention any redeeming
qualities in the review. Same for UK garage and glitch. The author seems to
only like old school USA dance music (not that I have read every entry).

[Hard Normal Daddy is generally considered one of Squarepusher's best albums
and it's drill n bass.]

~~~
RobertKerans
Yes, but you're doing exactly the same thing. Why should it have any redeeming
features, bar it being a breeding ground for a few acts that went off and did
better things, (this is mentioned in passing), and being the punchline for a
good joke on Father Ted?

A balanced music review that's good to read is rare. You have things you think
are good, and you have things you think are bad, and the meh ones in-between:
who cares? Not you. Validation that what you like/dislike - good. Putting into
words what you thought all along - good. Part of the reason the site is so
loved is because of the kickings doled out to genres (which a vague enough
containers disowned by those put in them at the best of times) vs. the things
he clearly loves, and, shit, that's what you want from reviewers, not an
anodyne history lesson. Music is deeply, deeply tribal, it isn't neutral

Like Squarepusher. "My Red Hot Cock" is really good. But bar that, he's good
at playing that stupid six-string bass and making generally-undanceable dance
music that people like to stroke their chins to. Saying Hard Normal Daddy is
considered one of his best albums -- well that's a pretty shallow pool!
Considered by whom? Not by me. Hard Plastic is miles better by dint of the
fact it has actual tunes. And the music I like is the best music, and the
music I dislike is crap. Weirdly enough the music you like is also the best
music and the music you dislike is the worst but anyway, Squarepusher is like
one of the jazz acts on The Fast Show, or something John Peel would put on
when he was having a mild breakdown. (nb I do actually really like
Squarepusher, I'm just arguing against his music because it is frankly
unlistenable to most people)

------
EdwardDiego
> Cybergoths: What happens when you take the stock Rivethead look and add
> Steampunk, mecha anime, and The Predator.

Love it!

------
proverbialbunny
Pretty neat, but it's missing some important genres. eg, lounge music is quite
possibly the first popular electronic music genre from the 40s and 50s, yet
it's not mentioned.

Also, I'm surprised by the lack of newer genres.

~~~
hajhatten
Missing Future Funk aswell

~~~
greensoup
Read the FAQ or the UAQ for explanations.

------
pgt
This Electro Tech Tree is greatly welcomed only 5 days after I lamented the
lack of electronic music on the Psytrance Guide[^1] :).

Where is progressive melodic techno, though? E.g. Atlas (Adriatique Remix) by
Romboy & Bodzin
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq4NSDcbmsI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq4NSDcbmsI)

I wish the text was searchable using my in-browser search.

\- [^1]:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20695334](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20695334)

------
wyclif
The Brostep entry alone is worth visiting the site to read.

~~~
have_faith
Some of the writing is funny, some is distracting from its purpose. The
Dubstep entry for instance spends most of its time bashing brostep and
skrillex which is a shame as it glosses over the first few years of
interesting music before it devolved.

~~~
Daishiman
It never devolved; the mainstream split off from the genre, which remains
underground and still has a couple dozen labels actively producing music, as
it has for the last decade.

The genre is actually evolving constantly and there's a fair amount of
interesting material and new artists. But it's back to being a niche much like
jungle is nowadays.

------
unicornporn
I remember using this in the very early 2000. I made electronic music myself,
and it functioned as a sort of mashup between Wikipedia and the
recommendations at Spotify. I remember browsing the genres, getting some
recommendation and searching for the files on Soulseek. When I found the files
I could browse all the files of the user that shared them and often find
similar acts. Lovely times. Still have the files, btw. :-)

~~~
klez
I think you should click the link. This is not what you were using in the
early 2000s :)

~~~
unicornporn
I saw that. Not that far from it though. Remember the selection of genres and
some of the samples provided. Much is still the same.

------
MrsPeaches
Definitely worth checking out the chiptune entry, goes into a fair bit of
detail on making music using early sound generation chips used in NES etc.

------
AAM2RF
Wow, just when I thought this wouldn't release, because of The Longplay. This
guide is amazingly detailed, Ishkur outdid himself

------
JulianMorrison
Why so little after 2000? Too close to see what's going to matter? Or has
musical creativity stalled?

------
marble-drink
Wow... I've been waiting for this for over 10 years now. The previous version
was an example of a loss when Flash started to die. Since I don't install
Flash any more I've been unable to use it. So glad to see it back.

------
mankeysee
Fucking modern web dev piece of shit where you can't even ctrl+F among the big
list to find what you were seeking. Guess at least it covers a decent breadth
of styles.

------
bartread
I first discovered this in 2009 when it still needed Flash (for obvious
reasons). A fantastic resource, and really pleased to see it updated for the
modern web. Great work (again!), Ishkur!

------
justaj
I really don't like the way the expanded info alters my scrolling behavior.

------
RantyDave
Whoa, _great_ upgrade.

------
gingabriska
I am interested in producing music but is there any book which can you teach
you from scratch.

~~~
omer_balyali
Audible Genius ([http://www.audiblegenius.com](http://www.audiblegenius.com))
-> This is really a good resource. The subscription will be online tomorrow,
14,99$/m. I'm using it for some months now and it's really helpful, it develop
your ear enormously. It's from the same guy who created Syntorial
([http://www.syntorial.com](http://www.syntorial.com)).

Dance Music Manual
([http://www.dancemusicproduction.com](http://www.dancemusicproduction.com))
from Rick Snoman, version 4 has been recently released and it's the only book
you need (for a time being). I don't own it but Secrets of Dance Music
Production looks good too.

Melodics ([http://www.melodics.com](http://www.melodics.com)) is also good for
practicing keyboard, if you're interested in learning to play the keyboard.

Music Production is very similar to front-end development, especially
Javascript development. Your hardware-software studio is like your bundle
system, continuous integration etc. So there are many moving parts to learn
and it takes time and many many readings (books, blogs, forums, facebook
groups, music store product descriptions etc.). It also takes time to develop
your ear and in time you will see that new levels will be opened in your mind,
like a game. You will hear more details, you will easily describe the
qualities of the sound (is it sine wave or a square, what kind of sonic
movements happening, what kind of effects with what kind of settings make that
specific sound sound like that)

It's fun, takes time, may take money (if you're interested in hardware studio
and premium software plugins). But it's basically so much fun!

