
Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits - Xcelerate
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/11/better-biscuits-south-thanksgiving/576526/
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jillesvangurp
I moved to Germany ten years ago. One of the nice things in this country is
that they have a numbering system for classifying flour and they have lots of
different varieties that are available in most supermarkets. A few years ago I
got into making pizza's from scratch and sort of did a deep dive into what
these numbers mean and in the process figured out what to look for in flour.

In the case of a pizza you want finely milled white flour with lots of
protein. That means in the numbering system the Germans have you don't want to
go too high. The numbers refer to dry ashes (mostly minerals) that remain
after burning a certain amount of flour. Dark breads tend to have higher
numbers. The darker the higher. Germans really love their dark breads. Forget
about making pizza with whole wheat flour or rye based flours.

So, for pizza you want to go low. But you should not go too low either because
that means you have cake flour which has less protein. You need protein to
form gluten and you need gluten to get a nice stretchy dough. Crumbly pizzas
are not a thing.

So, that narrowed it down substantially. German supermarkets generally carry
at least 3 different types of white flower: two regular flours with 405 and
550. And a spelt flower with the number 630. The 550 and 630 flours look very
similar and they have similar protein content. The 405 has a lower content and
is not really great for bread. I mostly use the 630 but have also used the
550. Technically the latter is probably closer to what an Italian would
consider acceptable.

What is sold in the US as all purpose flour is highly processed stuff
(bleaching is a thing) that has medium protein content and is relatively low
in nutritional value. The problem is with the "all purpose" part. That means
it must have some protein, otherwise it would be useless for things that
require that. Probably it is not super high either otherwise it would be
useless for making cakes or indeed biscuits. It's a compromise in other words.
Optimized for people that are mostly clueless about this stuff trying to make
things like pancakes, muffins, waffels, and other staples of US cuisine.

~~~
alkyon
I don't think this numbering system is specific to Germany, it is also used in
Poland so it must be European thing. What's more even in smaller stores you
can get at least two varieties.

Edit: the systems seem to differ modulo specific numbers, but principle is the
same

~~~
jillesvangurp
I've not seen it elsewhere in Europe. But makes sense if other countries do
this as well.

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dragonne
I've heard that this is also why American baguettes are so brutally hard (even
when fresh). They're supposed to be closer to crispy, not a dental hazard.

~~~
dragontamer
Baguettes are supposed to be made with high-protein wheat / bread flour.
Proper Southern Biscuits are supposed to be made with low-protein flour.

I'm somewhat surprised: in my grocery store, there are "cake flour", "bread
flour", and "all purpose flour" in the flour section. It only took a brief
search to learn the difference (and which had higher or lower protein counts).

Further research (actually book: "On Cooking"), describes the uses of each
flour. In effect: high-protein causes gluten formation, which is necessary for
a proper "doughy" bread like Baguette, but is counter-productive for southern-
style biscuits.

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fencepost
Cake flour is also a lower gluten flour and can be used to make lighter
biscuits. It should be available just about everywhere.

~~~
zhte415
I was also going to mention this: cake flour for it's low protein levels. In
determining what you're cooking/baking, the brand matters far less than the
actual type of flour.

Cake / 'biscuits' (my idea of a biscuit is a solid thing to dip in tea, how
British of me, but anyway) flour: about 8-9g of protein per 100 grams of
flour.

All-purpose flour: 11-12 grams of protein per 100 grams of flour.

Bread flour: 13-14 grams of protein per 100 grams of flour.

'Pastas' vary a lot. Italian-style uses high-protein durum wheat, which is
about 14g/100g. On the opposite end, Chinese jiaozi (steamed/boiled dumplings)
use low-protein content (8-9g/100g) to give a very smooth texture.

I'm curious if flour in the US is sold with such nutritional labeling:
protein, carbohydrate, fat, salt, etc, measurements per standardised measure
(in the EU and much of the world, this is per 100g)?

~~~
solatic
Makes you wonder why we don't sell flour by protein content. Meaning, instead
of "cake flour", sell "flour, 6% by wheat protein, good for cakes."

Maybe flour producers ought to have to label protein content on the label
(even in small text), so that it's easier to find the right flour for recipes.

~~~
zhte415
So this isn't done? Wow.

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GeekyBear
Here's a recipe for buttermilk biscuits that includes a video showing the
technique.

[https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/220943/chef-johns-
buttermi...](https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/220943/chef-johns-buttermilk-
biscuits/)

It's fairly close to the old school southern recipe, although lard was
traditionally used in addition to butter and many recipes added a teaspoon of
sugar and a quarter teaspoon of baking soda.

You can add a couple of teaspoons of bacon grease with your buttermilk to get
closer to the traditional recipe.

~~~
beauzero
The lard from traditional "lard" hogs that most of those old recipes were
written towards is not the same chemical composition of lard rendered from
today's meat hogs. Not a knock against your recommendation of bacon
grease...lard hog lard was healthier and had a lower melting point.

~~~
jriot
Lard is rendered from the leaf fat, near the kidney of the pig. Takes about 4
hours and is well worth it! We have a freezer full of leaf fat.

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sys_64738
Note that the are not cookies which British-English refers to as ‘biscuits’.
These are what brits would call scones.

~~~
121789
similar to scones, but they have a much different consistency. generally
softer and more moist

~~~
__abadams__
What Americans call scones are entirely unlike a British scone. A British
scone is closest to an American biscuit.

~~~
arethuza
And add to the confusion Scone is also a place in Scotland of some historical
significance (not for baking though).

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ksherlock
I was slightly dubious (what sort of monster would use bread flour to make a
biscuit?) so I investigated further. King Arthur all purpose flour is made
from hard wheat (as is their bread flour). BUT their self-rising flour is made
from soft wheat.

~~~
vonseel
A few years ago I spent some time learning to make breads and similar baking.
Hobbyist level stuff. King Arthur was recommended brand. I have made biscuits
once but found it difficult to get them light and airy. It wouldn’t surprise
me if the White Lily brand is just phenomenally better for biscuits, for some
reason related to the plants used or production process.

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chiph
When I lived in Austin I tried several times to make biscuits. While I love
the tortillas and kolaches you can get in Central Texas, I was homesick for a
good biscuit. And I never could get them to rise like they should. I tried all
the different kinds of flour available (Gold Medal, the HEB "Hill Country"
all-purpose flour, and so on) and none of them produced anything but hockey
pucks.

~~~
GeekyBear
Baking powder and/or baking soda need to be added to biscuit dough to make
biscuits rise.

Self rising flour is sold premixed with some baking powder, but I tend to add
an extra half teaspoon of baking powder per cup of self rising flour when I
make biscuits or pancakes with it.

All purpose flour doesn't include any baking powder or baking soda.

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iambateman
An aside...they quote Sarah Simmons in the article. She’s a restauranteur in
my city (Columbia, S.C.) and has done amazing things for the city’s food scene
in the last couple years.

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DaveInTucson
Or you could alter the recipe. I've made baking powder biscuits any number of
times (flour, salt, baking powder, milk, and butter) with very serviceable
results.

~~~
thrower123
I've always had good results just using the recipe from the back of the
Clabber Girl bakung powder tin. I've found making fluffy biscuits has more to
do with how you cut in the butter and work the dough than much else.

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pg_bot
Instead of going to Amazon, you should see if the manufacturer has an online
store. It's usually significantly cheaper.

[https://onlinestore.smucker.com/display_category.cfm?cat_id=...](https://onlinestore.smucker.com/display_category.cfm?cat_id=63&prbrand=10)

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2trill2spill
Use buttermilk, use self rising flour, or make your own, or use cake flour.
Use aluminum free baking powder(If making your own self rising flour) and
don't overwork the dough and make sure its cold as well as whatever fat you
use(Shortening, Butter, Lard, etc), and you should end up with delicious
biscuits.

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wdewind
TLDR: Different kinds of wheat in the flour (softer, with less gluten). The
soft wheat flour is sort of hard to get if you aren't a commercial baker, but
you can get it on Amazon, although it's $10 instead of $2.50 like regular
flour.

~~~
spqr0a1
Soft wheat flour is easy to find. It is available as cake flour in any grocery
store.

~~~
Skunkleton
Cake flour is low gluten, but also very fine milled. I don't know if that is a
problem, but it might be!

~~~
mjevans
It might be, BUT, there are also a large number of hits from places that seem
like they should actually know what they're doing and test things.

biscuit cake flour

Seems plausible.

~~~
Skunkleton
Go forth and report back!

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tokyodude
If you live in Tokyo the baking goods chain, Tomiz, probably has at least 80
kinds of flour depending on what you're trying to bake.

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benj111
So tldr is most US flour is bread flour, but you want plain flour for
biscuits(scones).

First question that arises. I've never come across an US derived recipe that
uses bread flour. Am I using the wrong flour when I make cobbler or
'cookies'(as in the soft bake chocolate chip kind)?

The second. Do you put jam and clotted cream on your bicuits(scones)? And in
what order?

~~~
djur
First: most common baking recipes use all-purpose flour, which is around 10%
protein. This type of flour is widely available and is best for most cookies,
quick breads, some types of cake, pancakes, waffles, etc. It's also acceptable
for enriched bread doughs (because gluten development is going to be inhibited
anyway) and for fatty/laminated doughs like typical pie crust or puff pastry
(for basically the same reason).

Bread flour is 14-16%. It will be explicitly called for if necessary. It's
more of a specialty product, but it's often available in grocery stores.
You'll mostly find it in more 'artisan' bread recipes, especially lean
European-style breads like baguettes, ciabatta, etc. Works fine for enriched
bread as well -- probably better, but not so much that I'd run out and buy it
if I was out if I had AP flour on hand. Useless/counterproductive in basically
everything but bread.

Cake flour is a low-protein (8% or less) flour that is more finely milled and
is usually bleached. It's suitable for cakes and for biscuits of the Southern
variety.

Finally, self-rising flour is usually an all-purpose flour that has baking
powder (chemical leavening) mixed in. This makes it more convenient to use for
a lot of common American baked goods -- pancakes, waffles, and biscuits, in
particular. But it also is unnecessary/harmful if you're using a recipe that
doesn't call for baking powder. ('Pancake mix' is similar, but it also
contains baking soda and sugar. Just add milk and eggs.)

That was long, sorry. Regarding your second question: jam is a common topping
for biscuits, but clotted cream is not a commonplace food in the US. (More's
the pity.) One would usually butter a biscuit before adding jam. Or honey, if
you're me. Or sausage gravy.

~~~
benj111
Ah ok. The article read as if high protein (bread) flour was the default in
the US.

Checking my plain and sr flour, protein content is 9% and 8.9% so seemingly a
bit closer to your cake flour. Sponge flour is a thing here but I think its
just finely ground, and not very common.

So that would suggest a 20%/80% mix of bread and plain flour would get closer
to your AP flour.

I assume all this is because the American climate is better for producing high
protein wheat? I know the Chorleywood method was developed to make bread with
low protein flour, because that is what was commonly produced in the UK. Bread
flour was imported from Canada, and so was in short supply post war.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorleywood_bread_process](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorleywood_bread_process)

~~~
jonnycomputer
only if by "US" you mean north of DC.

~~~
benj111
So high protein flour is default in the north, low protein in the south? Are
they labeled differently?

~~~
djur
It's more that there are specific brands of low-protein flour intended for
biscuit-making that are commonly available in the South and less available
elsewhere. And, just for clarification, it's important to remember that when
Americans refer to 'the South' or 'Southern' culture, they're referring to the
southeastern states, east of the Rockies, and sometimes even to a narrower
subset of these states. (For instance, biscuits are not a staple in Texas or
Oklahoma.) Regional naming is often contentious in the US -- just ask which
states are part of the Midwest and you might start an argument:

[https://www.vox.com/2016/2/16/10889440/midwest-
analysis](https://www.vox.com/2016/2/16/10889440/midwest-analysis)

Thanks for the info on the Chorleywood process, by the way. I'd never heard of
it.

~~~
benj111
Just when you thought they couldn't make more simple things complicated :)

I might make a submission of the chorleywood process at the weekend then. (its
basically sliced bread btw )

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JasonKidwell
Terrific article

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modernerd
I just wish Most of America would stop calling them biscuits.

[https://www.buzzfeed.com/lukebailey/scones-and-
jizz](https://www.buzzfeed.com/lukebailey/scones-and-jizz)

~~~
ubernostrum
And we wish you'd learn that not every Latin-derived word with a long "e"
spelled it "oe" or "ae". And that you'd stop insisting on "dual carriageway"
as a term for roads that have only ever existed in the age of internal
combustion. And that you'd learn what a jumper actually is. And how to
pronounce the letter "r". And that you'd understand that if you've "lost a
stone" it means a jewel fell out of your ring, not that you're on a diet. And
for that matter, that you'd pick a system of weights and measures and _stick
to it_. And that you'd clarify whether there is in fact any type of food in
existence that cannot somehow be classed as "pudding".

And... well, shall we go on?

~~~
benj111
I've lost the stone. Can you see it? I've looked everywhere and can't find it.

Re weights an measures. We changed it so we wouldn't be doing something
different to the rest of entire world.

Puddings are good, why not make everything a pudding? More seriously a pudding
used to be a meat based thing (Yorkshire pudding had dripping in) that went
sweet. Kind of like why mince pies don't have mince in them.

With the jumper, I assume you would like us to call it a 'sweater'? If its
making you sweat, take it off!

I don't know what you're talking about with my r pronunciation. I pronounce my
arghs perfectly. I assume you probably pronounce them weirdly though.

America and Britain. Two nations divided by a common language. Winston
Churchill.

~~~
arethuza
We are fairly inconsistent about use of metric in general use in the UK - for
example: last weekend I drove 79 miles at 60 or 70mph to walk 21km and climb
about 900m to go up two hills at about 930m and 940m which I feel compelled to
climb as they are more than 3000ft high!

~~~
benj111
I want to make a comment about not being able to decide whether we are fully
adopting European things or not, but I won't.

I think a part of it is that imperial units are human sized and quite useful.
A pint of beer is the natural correct unit of measurement. A cm is just a bit
too small for a guessed at measure, an inch or foot can be understood to be
inaccurate generalisations. Metric equivalents not so much. Road signage is a
mess though. Distance: Miles, except shorter distances: Metres. Both shortened
to 'm'.

~~~
barrkel
Litre, cm, metre - all are human-size units that are useful. It's easier for
me to ad-hoc measure a cable in metres than in feet because the distance
between my hand and my opposite shoulder across my chest is about 1 metre.
Similarly, a kg of sugar weighs about the same as a litre of milk, and I've
been drinking milk from litre cartons all my life. (As a kid in Ireland, there
were three main sizes in the shops, 1 pint and 1 litre cartons and 2 litre
bottles. 1 pint was always too small for a family of three - you'd run out
before it went off.)

I think you're labouring under parochialism of measurement. Grow up under a
different system and you'll see there's nothing special or advantageous about
the imperial system at all.

~~~
arethuza
I find the imperial system totally confusing - I'd actually prefer if we moved
to metric for driving - we've used metric for petrol/diesel volumes for ages.

