
Tesla Blown Away as Renault Dominates Europe’s July EV Sales Party - Alupis
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltaylor/2020/08/27/tesla-blown-away-as-renault-dominates-europes-july-ev-sales-party/
======
PeterStuer
A Tesla over here, even with the massive government handouts to the EV
industrie, goes for nearly twice the price of a full option BMW 5 series.

There is just no way to get it approved in my company car budget.

~~~
ArkVark
Not just that but even a Model 3 is a _huge_ car in Europe. The streets here
are narrow, garages are smaller, parking is precarious. Its just too big.

Additionally outside of the Autobahn, you're driving through congested city
streets where the speed and acceleration is of no value.

We need a Tesla sub-brand that can sell cheaper, slower and smaller cars.

~~~
PeterStuer
Interesting as I assumed EV's biggest advantages would be in stop and go
traffic, where there is frequent acceleration/deceleration inertia to
overcome, and real net noise benefits which sort of go away above 35km/h.

~~~
ArkVark
Absolutely! But a €5,000 small EV with a max speed of 60km/h and a range of
100km would be totally fine for that.

Step it up to a €10,000 slightly bigger EV with 80km/h and 200km and you
satisfy even inter-city use.

Renault offer the Twizy but I think its overpriced - perhaps deliberately to
avoid cannibalizing their higher-priced regular cars.

------
clouddrover
Right car for the right market for the right price. Tesla used to be the
number 1 BEV maker in Europe but now they're number 3:

[https://www.schmidtmatthias.de/post/april-2020-european-
elec...](https://www.schmidtmatthias.de/post/april-2020-european-electric-car-
market-top-sellers)

Hyundai will become number 3 as they start to release their Hyundai and Kia
BEVs in greater volumes.

Volkswagen with its multiple brands (VW, Audi, Porsche, SEAT, Skoda, etc.) is
now the biggest BEV maker in Europe. Even the VW e-Golf still does well:

[https://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2020/08/europe-july-2020.html](https://ev-
sales.blogspot.com/2020/08/europe-july-2020.html)

VW's BEV lead will be strengthened by the ID.3 and ID.4 which will be released
soon.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
VW do seem to be betting the company on EV's, it will be interesting to see
what happens over the next decade.

Having said that the ID.3 is looking disappointingly expensive, I think they
were originally saying it would be comparable to a Golf diesel.

------
erikstarck
"While electric vehicle (EV) sales accounted for 18 percent of the total sales
in Europe in July"

Wow, that's amazing. Two more doublings and EVs dominate the market.

"Total EV registrations in Europe jumped from 23,400 sales in July 2019 to
53,200 in 2020"

Two more years like that and we're there...

~~~
ragebol
> Two more doublings and EVs dominate the market.

What kind of time do you expect this to take?

~~~
erikstarck
Uhm... have you looked two rows down? :)

Not sure growth will continue at that pace, of course, but we've seen 50-100%
annual growth the last couple of years (63% globally 2018).

So... in a few years, perhaps 3-5?

------
noneeeed
This is good news. It's a sign that competition in the market is heating up
and that multiple car companies are making different models for different
markets (geographic, usage and price levels) that appeal to people.

All the cheerleading and nay-saying on both sides is tedious in the extreme.
We should all be cheering the expansion of EVs accross the car industry. No,
EVs are not perfect, and there is a lot of issues that need to be worked out
from charging and range to the resources used to make them, but all those
things are being worked on and this competition is part of that.

Around me (in the UK) the EVs I notice seem to be pretty much split between
Tesla's (mostly 3s with the odd S), Renault Zoes, and the Nissan Leaf
(although they seem to be a minority). I'm also seeing a lot of Nissan ENV 200
vans being used by local businesses (including my plumber, who abasolutely
loves his).

Different people have different requirements. For a very large portion of the
UK population, the market leading range on a Tesla is a plus for many people,
especially if it's a main car.

But many cars in the UK rarely go more than 100 miles in a day, the last
figures I've seen from the RAC (UK equivalent of AAA in the US I think) puts
the average daily drive at something like 25 miles (roughly my wife's
commute), so for many people something like the Zoe is absolutely perfect,
especially for a second car.

On a random side-note, I really love the sound the Zoe makes when it goes
past, it's wonderfully futuristic.

~~~
rich_sasha
I always found it strange that we have a very developed petrol infrastructure,
but not electric charging.

Petrol needs to be shipped, first from drilling site to refinery, then
distributed around the country, stored in underground tanks, protected against
fire, kept topped up as supply/demand fluctuates, and even then you are
probably never further than 10 miles from the nearest petrol station.

Whereas electricity is, well, everywhere. Every petrol station has an electric
connection. It doesn't need to be stored on site, transport is easy (hard for
the grid but easy for the end user), no unusual hazards, etc.

Of course charging is slower, and I guess that's the real bottleneck, but even
then. We put holes filled with petrol all over the country, but can't put
extra sockets.

~~~
clouddrover
> _Every petrol station has an electric connection._

It's not as simple as using what's there. For fast chargers you also need to
install a high power grid connection.

However, battery based chargers are an interesting option for low installation
costs without a high power connection while still achieving 120+ kW charging.
The battery can either be integrated into the charger unit itself for the
lowest installation cost or a large battery pack can be placed on site to run
the chargers off:

[https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/vw-group-components-e-
on-...](https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/vw-group-components-e-on-battery-
ev-charger-germany/)

[https://freewiretech.com/products/dc-boost-
charger/](https://freewiretech.com/products/dc-boost-charger/)

[https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1129240_battery-
boosted...](https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1129240_battery-boosted-
charger-a-model-for-filling-in-fast-charging-gaps)

[https://thedriven.io/2020/05/07/new-goulburn-battery-
beats-g...](https://thedriven.io/2020/05/07/new-goulburn-battery-beats-grid-
upgrade-for-electric-vehicle-ultra-rapid-charging/)

As battery prices continue to fall these types of charger configurations will
become more attractive.

------
akmarinov
This article is a bit of bs.

Tesla ships their cars from the US on a schedule, when that schedule doesn’t
match up with a certain month, you see a big sales drop, since there are no
cars to sell.

You also get a lot of articles when that happens

[https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimcollins/2020/03/02/teslas-
sa...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimcollins/2020/03/02/teslas-sales-
fell-68-in-the-netherlands-and-92-in-norway-in-february/)

[https://seekingalpha.com/article/4318996-teslas-european-
mod...](https://seekingalpha.com/article/4318996-teslas-european-
model-3-sales-to-decline-60-in-january-based-on-registration-data)

[https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-sales-leap-400-percent-
model...](https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-sales-leap-400-percent-model-3-push-
germany/)

~~~
ryndbfsrw
[https://sniffpetrol.com/2019/09/05/psychologists-identify-
ne...](https://sniffpetrol.com/2019/09/05/psychologists-identify-new-mental-
condition/)

~~~
akmarinov
You know you've won an argument when they resort to calling you names.

~~~
ryndbfsrw
I didn’t actually read the article. Every Tesla submission on HN usually has
someone white knighting and this was true to form

------
rich_sasha
It's part of a wider trend I guess, by which US cars are just not popular in
Europe. Ford is the exception, but (a) it is not super-popular in Europe,
merely one of many brands, and (b) even then it seems to be different cars
than in the US. Definitely you don't see the massive Ford pick-ups, and no
Corvettes, Chevrolets etc.

It's not as simple as nationalism, Japanese and Korean cars are definitely
around. Not sure what the reasons are, perhaps a different approach/philosophy
to car design?

By that line, perhaps Tesla was popular so long as the European/Japanese
competition was weak, but once that picked up, and better fitted the market
expectations, it took over?

------
systemvoltage
Would it make sense to short TSLA? One thing going for Tesla is their
supercharger network and huge bets on fleet data collection to improve their
AI/SD capabilities. Also, Tesla is vertically integrated in terms of battery +
car + SDS + SDS hardware (in house silicon). Does that warrant such an insane
stock price even accounting for future revenue forecasts and margins?

~~~
klodolph
No, you'd be insane to make bets on Tesla, for the simple reason that there
are a lot of people making crazy bets on Tesla.

If you want to short TSLA you'd have to hold that position long enough for the
market to realize that you're right... that may take a long time, and you may
not make it.

~~~
rumanator
> No, you'd be insane to make bets on Tesla, for the simple reason that there
> are a lot of people making crazy bets on Tesla.

Sounds like a Ponzi scheme.

~~~
thefounder
It's more like a lottery because you "know" what you are doing

~~~
rumanator
> It's more like a lottery because you "know" the what you are doing

So do Ponzi-scheme victims.

------
agumonkey
Sadly Renault is in financial struggles, deep. Zoe's were the first EV car to
be seen regularly on roads. But I'm starting to see Tesla's more and more
often now.

Also Citroen released the Ami, a minuscule box with wheels, limited to 30mph
or something and accessible to teens without a license. It's apparently being
received well.

~~~
speps
For the older generation, much more inreresting design wise:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_Ami](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_Ami)

------
mindfulhack
To me this is no problem. Tesla has been a catalyst. IIRC, its corporate
mythology has often said as much.

I'm not an economist and I'm sure technically they're supposed to act like a
selfish capitalist entity like anyone else, but as a consumer looking on, I
just want more non-ICE vehicles no matter what the brand. Tesla will always
have a very special place in my heart for making things change. And to me that
matters the most.

Also its brand power is right up there with Apple, even still now. All the
hysteria in the media of win/fail around Tesla is unrealistic.

------
bryanlarsen
Boats full of cars take 2 months to get from California to Europe. 2 months
before the beginning of July the Tesla factory was shut down due to COVID 19.
So not surprising that Tesla didn't sell many cars in Europe in July.

------
Havoc
Tesla better up their game on finish & quality.

If the old school makers catch up on battery tech etc and maintain their
currently superior fittings & finish that could end badly for T.

------
raiyu
Tesla had a massive head start and with something like cars where there are so
many preferences it’s impossible for one manufacturer to own the entire space.

However the article is a bit click-baity as it was really about a decrease in
sales for Tesla due to the pandemic, not because someone else outsold them.

~~~
amzans
I believe a decrease in sales due to the pandemic wouldn’t only affect Tesla.
It affects every car manufacturer.

So yes, Renault outsold Tesla :)

~~~
brianwawok
Except Tesla literally didn’t ship cars to Europe for a month? They just
launched the Y and are rushing to fill US Y orders.

This is like comparing two coders lines of code per day, but zoom in on the
day one of the coders was out 4 hours for a doctors appointment. Good job, you
proved a coder not at work doesn’t work as much as a coder at work.

