
Google Censors Guns, Ammo & Accessories from Shopping Results - TDL
http://www.guns.com/google-guns-ammo-accessories-shopping-results-9403.html
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damoncali
Google has long been unfriendly to firearms related websites. They don't allow
their ad server to be used by them, or for adsense to be shown on them.

For example, my own site, <http://bisonballistics.com>, cannot use adsense
because it links to sites that sell firearms parts. I dare you to find one
word on that site that encourages anything unethical, unsafe, or illegal.

I'd be shocked if there was a good reason for this, but I'd love to hear it.

Entrepreneurs have filled the gap with specialized ad networks, just as
Gunbroker did when ebay pulled similar antics.

EDIT: a couple of you have taken issue with my definition of ethics - fair
enough. The broader point is that google just doesn't like firearms, no matter
how they are used.

~~~
vibrunazo
> I dare you to find one word on that site that encourages anything unethical,
> unsafe, or illegal.

Oh c'mon. Let's not get there. As someone in the gun community you should be
more than aware that "ethics" are extremely subjective to one's opinion.
There's no global truth for ethics. Respect other's opinion's and you won't be
shocked if there's a good reason for this. The good reason is: some people
don't actually agree with you.

~~~
damoncali
Let me rephrase. I'd be shocked if there was a good reason for this other than
"google doesn't like guns."

As for ethics, I would go as far as to say that punching holes in paper from
100 yards away is about as benign an activity as one can imagine. But perhaps
environmentalists would take isuse, so I'll retract that as well.

~~~
naner
Aren't there legal hurdles that vary by country and state? Perhaps that's why
it is better to have specialists sites (like Gunbroker).

That's just a wild-ass-guess. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong.

~~~
damoncali
I actually have no problem with Ebay's decision. The regulation in firearms
sales is indeed complex and uncertain. At the time Ebay dropped gun sales, gun
control was a hot topic politically. And online auctions were new enough so
that one could imagine ebay getting caught in the middle of something bad.

But google is a mystery. Their TOS seem to indicate that they simply have a
distaste for the shooting sports industry. But they send me tons of traffic.
They could just drop shooting sites from the index. That gives me hope that
there is some arcane legal reasoning behind their thoughts, but I suspect it's
just a choice they've made, and that they cannot stomach the backlash they
would incur by dropping huge legal categories from their results. I would love
to hear from someone who has some knowledge on this, as it's been confusing me
for years.

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staunch
I think the issue is that they're changing Google Shopping from a search
engine to be only paid listings. They were okay with listing weapons before
because they didn't make any money off them, but now all listings will be
paid. They don't want to earn money from weapon listings.

eBay has the same policy. I don't agree with the policy personally but I
certainly have no problem with a private company doing things like this.

~~~
damoncali
ebay can at least make the argument that the legal headaches/uncertainty with
enforcing interstate gun laws may not be worth the money they get from gun
auctions.

Google won't even allow you to link to Cabelas.

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superxor
Living here in India it's surprising to see the mostly unregulated Gun sale in
the US. I believe it's a right the constitution of US grants to its citizens.
But I've read that this is a major cause for higher homicidal rate in the US.
It seems like common sense to us here that allowing nearly everyone to
purchase Guns is counter-productive and will only result in more violence.

Correct me If I am wrong, I understand this is a highly polarized issue in US
and it's election time too.

~~~
to3m
It's also common sense to see that allowing nearly everybody to purchase guns
will result in reduced violence, because the potential immediate penalty for
violence is higher.

It's up to you which you believe, and after making your decision I suggest you
use google to find further justification for it.

~~~
philh
> It's up to you which you believe, and after making your decision I suggest
> you use google to find further justification for it.

This is exactly the wrong order to do things in.

Assuming you value truth, then it's _not_ up to you which you believe. You
have to look at the evidence _first_ , and then believe whichever one is best
supported. Ask questions before you shoot.

<http://lesswrong.com/lw/js/the_bottom_line/>

~~~
to3m
Yes, that would be one valid interpretation of my post.

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maratd
In the end, it's Google's product and they should run the service as they
wish.

However, this and the previously announced change of charging for placing
listings in the service leaves a _really_ bad taste in my mouth. In the end,
I'll just end up using one of _many_ alternatives.

This is also on the extreme end of hypocrisy. Google frequency complains about
the censorship it faces around the world and then turns around, and censors
results _when it doesn't have to_ here in the US.

A part of fighting censorship is tolerating content you may not like. In fact,
that's what being part of a tolerant society is. Putting up with shit you
don't agree with.

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protomyth
"Google AdWords doesn't allow the promotion of weapons or devices designed to
cause serious harm or injury."

Swords are allowed?!? Which sword is not designed to cause serious harm or
injury? Allowing swords and then disallowing knives is just weird.

~~~
vibrunazo
My guess is it has something to do to the amount of crimes with knives vs with
swords.

~~~
protomyth
They might want to rewrite their intro then as it does not match the table.
Also, tasers aren't exactly safe.

~~~
vibrunazo
Meh, discussing subjectivity and semantics is boring. Nowadays most swords are
designed as cosmetic decoration, not "designed for serious harm and injury".
You could interpret it either way, it's just semantics. Same for tasers.
Anyway, boring.

~~~
protomyth
The semantics of rules is the only important thing about rules. Sorry to bore
you, and wondering why you bothered?

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mindrag
I'm upset by what I see as a sense of entitlement by gun owners who think that
every retail outlet should be selling guns. Many gun buffs won't shop at
Target because that store won't sell guns. Now they are complaining about
Google. It's not like Google is the only way to shop online. Heck, it's not
even the BEST way to shop online. Get over it and shop somewhere else.

~~~
damoncali
_Many gun buffs won't shop at Target because that store won't sell guns...Get
over it and shop somewhere else._

I think that's what they're doing.

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maxharris
Using the word "censor" is inappropriate here because it doesn't distinguish
between two very different things:

1) government-imposed silencing of speech by force (this is what "censorship"
should mean) 2) a private person or group refusing to be a platform for
someone else's speech (the definition of "censorship" should not include this.
If it did, you would be "censoring" all those whom you did not assist in being
heard.)

Each of us has a right to say whatever we want, but not the right to force
others to help us say it.

[This isn't relevant to my point, but I'm very pro-gun. I'm just not pro-
force.]

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citricsquid
Seems to be down, pastebin mirror: <http://pastebin.com/5RWeF5qQ> or google
cache:
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?sugexp=chrome,m...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?sugexp=chrome,mod=4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.guns.com%2Fgoogle-
guns-ammo-accessories-shopping-results-9403.html)

~~~
vibrunazo
OT, how exactly do you find the google cache link, when this kind of thing
happen? I looked it up earlier but didn't find it.

~~~
citricsquid
Either search "cache:[url]" via google or you can do it via the address bar in
chrome.

cache:[http://www.guns.com/google-guns-ammo-accessories-shopping-
re...](http://www.guns.com/google-guns-ammo-accessories-shopping-
results-9403.html)

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rogerchucker
Good

