
Ask HN: How to turn off my desire to be seen? - saimiam
I find myself not wanting to do things if there isn&#x27;t an audience for it.<p>I don&#x27;t feel like blogging since no one visits my blog. When I consider traveling, my first thought is that I&#x27;ll take pics and share it with friends to show them that I&#x27;m having a good time. If I go running, I feel like converting my interest in running into a meetup group consisting of fellow runners.<p>How do I do things for my personal pleasure, not for an audience?<p>Did a fallen tree make any sound?
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nexus2045
I was surprised to read this post because it echoes my sentiments down to the
T. Another one is when I learn or read anything, I almost reflexively think
about how I might dispense that information in front of an audience (friends,
a crowd) and "sound smart". That impending validation feels good. The only
saddening conclusions I've come to are that "all I want is attention" and "I'm
narcissistic".

~~~
saimiam
After I asked this question of HackerNews, I went off to medium.com to read
about art because they say art can save the heart.

One thought exercise on creativity showed me for a brief second what intrinsic
reward looks like. I'll try to find that post and share it with you. To
summarize,

1\. Imagine a red apple. It's your own red apple.

2\. It floats in space in front of you not tied to the ground or the sky.

3\. Add yellow streaks of ripeness to the apple.

4\. Now change its color to a color never before seen in an apple

5\. Give the apple a texture.

6\. Give it a finish.

7\. Buff it or scuff it, it's your apple.

I did this exercise yesterday and when I woke up this morning, my apple was
still with me. Though no one knew it existed, to me, it felt very real, very
mine. I felt proud of that apple.

As of this moment, I enjoy my little blog with zero daily visitors and
monochromatic layout just as much as I love my imagined purple apple. So what
if no one knows that my apple (or I, by extension) exists? I'm just glad I
made it and it's there for me to remember.

This may dissipate in the next hour but until then, I created something for
its own sake, not because I got kudos for it.

E1: dropped a double word

~~~
gt_
Sincerely, thank you. I actually do this thing a lot, and one of these little
ideas (usually artistic) can last from a day to about a week maybe. It is my
own little idea that I will just appreciate and it stays good or it goes away.
Maybe I start to judge it but the net yield is happiness in my own space. I
like making art but have realized conceptualizing it or visualizing it gives
me my own existence that I get to 'exclude others from' if I want to see it
that way. I find this habit can often lead me to not make the actual art but I
am in the process of realizing that is actually the beauty of it.

I also do this through art history, too. This has am interesting angle to it.
I habitually look for unconventional interpretations of art history but any
will do. I often find little pieces of art history that I relate to a lot, or
have personal theories of. Maybe others would think similarly but I don't know
that and it doesn't matter. These relations are between me and a bunch of dead
people and the lineage of the human mind.

------
newman8r
Try keeping a personal journal that you don't intend to show anybody, try
meditation. Consider retiring some of your social media accounts.

Stop caring so much about who visits your blog - turn it into something that
you can use to keep track of all the cool stuff you try - make it a tool you
can reference, keep snippets there, little tutorials for yourself, etc. If
nobody else ever reads it, at least it's useful for you.

------
mattbgates
When it comes to blogging, you should always act like you have an audience,
even if you don't. Just write and write and speak your mind. Talk to someone
as if they are so interested in what you are going to publish.

I started a website called Confessions of the Professions (
[http://www.confessionsoftheprofessions.com](http://www.confessionsoftheprofessions.com))
a few years ago.. and my only visitors were my mom and my girlfriend. I didn't
care.. I remember loading up WordPress Jetpack and my visitor count was around
10 a day... then it increased to 35. I just kept at it.. kept writing blogs,
kept soliciting for people to write for me, posting sometimes up to 3 or 4
times a day.

Eventually, I would lose interest... and about the time I did that, people
started emailing me asking me if they could contribute.. and I happily agreed.
Every time I start to lose interest.. I get dozens of emails with praise and
asking if they can contribute an article.

My visitor count ranges anywhere from 500 - 1000 visitors a day. I get
universities and well known companies asking if they can contribute. I work
with a lot of marketing agencies and consultants who have clients and are
looking for a niche website to publish on.

Honestly, it keeps me going even when I'm ready to give it up. It motivates me
and revitalizes me back into my own passions and desires for keeping the
website going... we all have to go to work... and I am curious about what
everyone is doing and the struggles of everyday.

But it all started with no audience and an assumption that people might read
it, could read, and would be interested in reading it. If I had to do it all
over again knowing what I know now.. I totally would do it again... the
website has helped so many.

So just keep going! No matter what! You never know whose reading! :)

~~~
saimiam
I appreciate the answer but I want to point out that I'd rather just write
because I enjoy writing, not in the hope of finding an audience. My
frustration is that I don't find writing intrinsically rewarding.

I think that can come about if I write a deeply felt blogpost whose very
existence touches something fundamental in me.

~~~
Mz
I do a lot of blogging. For me, it works best to find an intrinsic motivator.
(But do always keep in mind that it is posted publicly. Writing for yourself
in public is an interesting challenge.)

My most successful blog started as a means to keep track of information for
myself. I abandoned it for a time, but it was getting organic traffic. I
resumed developing it.

 _Blog_ is short for _Web Log._ Blogs began as personal journals or diaries
that were publicly shared. If you want to track certain kinds of information
for yourself, like a food journal in support of pursuing healthier eating,
that can have intrinsic value without an audience. If it attracts an audience,
cool. But it does not require one to be valuable to you.

------
tixocloud
First off, it is completely normal to feel this way. I think you're at the
point where you're truly discovering who you are as a person. Do you feel a
great sense of unhappiness when you say you only do things if there's an
audience?

The aha moment for me was when I started diving into philosophy and in
particular, Buddhist philosophy, in search of learning more about life and
about myself. I've been practicing Nichiren Buddhism, where the belief is that
our lives represent a tarnished mirror and it is only through life experiences
where we polish ourselves to reveal who we truly are.

Perhaps this is the beginning of your very own journey towards discovering
yourself that would lead to doing things that you do find personally
pleasurable.

------
meric
First, I'm happy to see you're on your journey to self awareness. Second,
accept your condition, enjoying attention is a human condition. You are human!
Now keep asking questions. What kind of person would you like to stay/become
next?

------
beeskneecaps
Delete Facebook/instagram, do the things you love, discover that things you
love are better without having to periodically sacrifice them to zuckbot.

~~~
saimiam
Actually I've been off FB, whatsapp, instagram, twitter, g+ for a while now.
Even when I was using those platforms, I was a very sporadic user so I'm
pretty sure I was never "addicted" to the notification icon.

Yet, there is this sense that things not seen by others is not worth doing.

~~~
nOObieMonster
Its called been a perfectionist. Reality is its better to launch a sub par
product and tweak than try to launch the next Facebook.

Its also better to understand that you don't run for fame or other people. You
run for health... or find your own motivator.

Problem is we get ppl claiming to become famous/rich/successful over night
with their awesome idea/plan... however this is Marketing, Ego-driven and
often short lived (fad).

Ive realised building a long lasting brand/product is hard... and SLOW...but
it can happen. Start something and keep adding to it. Same goesnfor weights,
dieting or whatever. Start and keep on plodding.

Dont do anything firnthr benefit of others and dont compare yourself to
others. Just try to make sure YOU are progressing vs your previous self. If
you're bored then its not what you really bwant to do. When you find something
you enjoy, you will persist.

Also depression and anxiety cause us to lose interest so go outside and walk
every day... meditate. Take care of #1. The rest will come and fall into place

So just start doing stuff...

#iknownothing

------
timthelion
I too have this problem, I wonder, however, whether HN is a great place for
such discussion. Not that it is off topic, but HN is a place that increases
this feeling by creating an all or nothing atmosphere. There is no way to be
seen just a little.

\---

Did the tree hear itself fall?

One of the first successful AI experiments was a computer in a booth at a
fair. The computer had a genetic algorithm which would draw two pictures. The
viewer was to decide which picture was better and select their answer using a
set of buttons. The mutation of the algorithm which drew the "better" picture
then "survived" till the next round. Despite the fact that the algorithm
started by drawing random noise, it ended up creating symmetrical, abstract
shapes with some aesthetic quality. The AI could not paint, but was it
intelligent? It was able to create things, but it was reliant on the judgment
of others to tell if they were good.

A person with no taste of their own, who is unable to judge whether they like
something or not, and who is at the mercy of the input of others to decide
their direction is quite similar to this genetic algorithm.

We need to learn to be able to experience things, and decide for ourselves
whether we enjoy them or not in order to be able to create anything at all.

Do you have a sense for this?

I do.

Do you hear yourself? Do you see yourself? Do you SEE the product of your
labors and enjoy them, or at least have an opinion on them? Or do you need
others to see and hear for you?

\----

Impetus: Do you actually want to do the things you do? Or have you not found
anything that you're truly passionate about yet?

I can see and hear, but I still lack impetus without the input of others.
Indeed, I find that I can become so empty when I imagine that I am truly
alone, that I can just lie on the floor and not move.

However, there are many people who successfully live alone in nature. True
hermits. I believe that the difference is that you can "hear the music" you
can "see the artwork" but if you don't enjoy it, then what's the point? In
this post-industrial world, our cities and the buildings in which we live are
so devoid of beauty that the passion is sucked from us.

\---

To whom does the voice in your head speak?

I often suffer from the problem that the voice in my head is always planning a
conversation, or a speech, I struggle to think to myself. To talk to myself. I
have been practicing this though, by using a program which records my voice
and plays it back to me. I intentionally say embarrassing things that I would
not want to publish. I ensure that I'm alone so that I can practice speaking
to myself. I find that it does help, though it has not cured me.

~~~
timthelion
Just for interest, I uploaded the script that I use to "talk to myself" here:
[http://ipfs.hobbs.cz/ipfs/QmTToAExveJ7cdR7oMShovunMmN8RtUC1L...](http://ipfs.hobbs.cz/ipfs/QmTToAExveJ7cdR7oMShovunMmN8RtUC1LP8dGmB8BYv4R)

You need sox and python3 for it to run
[http://sox.sourceforge.net/](http://sox.sourceforge.net/).

You launch it with

./101things --delay=30

When it beeps, you start talking. After you have said 101 things to yourself,
in between each track it will play back one of the things you said. I found it
really boring to have a conversation with myself in the moment, so I try to
say things that would be of interest to my future self, like 2 hours from now.
It is a very strange experience.

~~~
saimiam
Interesting that you're using ipfs. Didn't expect to see it in the wild.

I'll try your experiment with my phone's memo app.

~~~
timthelion
I use ipfs, not out of some sort of edginess or hipness, but because it is
literally the easiest way. I just run one command, ipfs add -w file/folder and
it is online ;) Faster than scping something to the web server and having to
enter the old password, remembering where to put it, ect. ;)...

