
Mark Zuckerberg calls Obama to complain about NSA - evo_9
http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/13/technology/security/mark-zuckerberg-nsa/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
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tomelders
I feel it's worth pointing out that Facebook won't lock you up without trial
in a secret prison, torture you and violate every human right you have because
of something you think.

There is a real difference between what Facebook does and what the US
government does.

~~~
ta_fbp
I feel it's worth pointing that facebook makes it easier to identify and
locate people who end up in prison without trial and so on.

For a little while I've wandered into the business of finding the identity
behind an online account and finding the physical whereabouts of said person
for private companies and state police. It was in the pre- and early facebook
era and it was sort of detective work, picking up details and clues, cross-
referencing data, some wild guess and luck. Then facebook grew to the
monstrous thing it has become, and now these past employers do not require
external contractors to do this kind of job, they just go to facebook and do
the job themselves in little time.

~~~
declan
>I feel it's worth pointing that facebook makes it easier to identify and
locate people who end up in prison without trial and so on.

Can you identify one person that Facebook has identified who has wound up
sentenced to prison without a trial? No? Didn't think so.

I'm not a defender of Facebook and have posted critically elsewhere in this
comment thread about FB data-mining. But the grandparent post has it right:
Facebook != the government. Facebook wants to show you ads to buy stuff you
don't need. The government wants to arrest you, strip search you, and imprison
you for smoking a plant it decreed is unlawful, or transferring a series of
bits it decreed is unlawful.

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tempodox
<blockquote> "When our engineers work tirelessly to improve security, we
imagine we're protecting you against criminals, not our own government,"
Zuckerberg wrote </blockquote>

Small correction: The US government ARE the criminals you need to protect
against.

~~~
ta_fbp
As usual, facebook PR is fallacious. Naively pretending they don't know
governments are historically often engaging in criminal activities to draw
attention away from the fact facebook is a massive surveillance too, one that
past political regimes could only dream about, which by some kind of magic
should be acceptable on grounds that it is done by a private corporation for
commercial profit.

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slowmotiony
Can regular Americans call Obama too or is it just rich people?

~~~
medikoo
President's time is limited, so it's better if just representatives of bigger
groups of people call him directly. I think we can say that in some sense Mark
represents larger group of people.

~~~
Ygg2
In other words, only rich people :P

~~~
vlasev
It's not BECAUSE they are rich though...

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37prime
“How dare the NSA spy on Facebook users. Their informations are property of
Facebook."

~~~
simias
Facebook is opt-in.

~~~
ta_fbp
Not really no. Facebook has been known for a while for building profiles of
unregistered people and tracking them around. Then people you know offline who
are on facebook will rat tons of information about you all the time. People
are just submitting personal information without a second thought.

Zuck: Yeah so if you ever need info about anyone at Harvard Zuck: Just ask.
Zuck: I have over 4,000 emails, pictures, addresses, SNS [Redacted Friend's
Name]: What? How'd you manage that one? Zuck: People just submitted it. Zuck:
I don't know why. Zuck: They "trust me" Zuck: Dumb fucks.

~~~
simias
Fair enough, but then at least with plugins like "disconnect" & friends it's
opt-out. We really shouldn't have to do that, I agree, but that's the state of
the web in 2014.

I wonder if the NSA complies with the "DO NOT TRACK" header.

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iLoch
The hypocrisy is astounding.

~~~
pswilson14
Surely, you see a difference between a data company collecting data from users
who willingly hand it to them, and a government that forces those companies to
hand over private data against their will?

~~~
Argorak
Sure. I also see a difference between a company asking everyone for that data
in a clear fashion and one that tries get hold of every scrap of data from its
users, even if it has to do with non-users (e.g. by collecting their address
books).

To be clear about address books: they are "yours", but they hold data that you
may not have permission to give away.

~~~
spacehome
Facebook can ask me all they want for my data, and I won't give it to them.
The feds literally don't give me a choice.

~~~
Argorak
That is true, but moral standpoints are not black/white and Facebooks moral
standpoint in the whole privacy debate isn't quite the strongest. Facebook
will basically take any interaction with them as a "yes".

Also, Facebook didn't ask me when my friends gave my phone number and address
to them.

Zuckerberg has repeatedly shown a lot of moral flexibility on those issues -
so the irony is definitely there.

~~~
spacehome
ok, I concede that point, but none of my friends are giving my info to the
NSA, either.

~~~
Argorak
Sure, but we are still talking about Zuckerberg trying to make a moral
argument about vast personal data collection.

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rhizome
Previously:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7394131](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7394131)

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bsaul
Which reminds me of : what are the current realistic alternative to facebook
as of today ? I'm thinking of some tech that would let me remain in control of
the data i show to my friends.

~~~
ta_fbp
You could try email, xmpp instant messaging, self-hosting your website, and so
on. Maybe a secure p2p tool such as waste.

But one way or another the problem is usually the same, your friends are
locked in by facebook and don't want to use something else to see what you
want to show them.

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comice
A phone call is a cute gesture. If he really meant what he said he'd go to
court.

