

What being hopelessly single taught me about pitching tech celebs - iseff
http://www.geekwire.com/2011/hopelessly-single-taught-pitching-tech-celebs

======
pg
Maybe my case is unusual because YC takes applications online, but I don't
like it when people walk up to me and "pitch" me by reciting some
preformulated speech about their startup. I can almost never understand what
they're talking about. And it makes me feel like a target, in much the same
way it probably does to women when guys walk up to them and recite
preformulated pickup lines.

The unit of conversation with a "tech celeb" need not be a pitch. I'd suggest
trying an ordinary conversation instead. I don't know about other people, but
it would definitely work better with me.

~~~
zach
This is a tough thing for founders. I was in this situation earlier this year
after I won a ticket to Google I/O. One of the events was a Google Ventures
mixer, which turned out to be a "speed-dating" event. I was excited to meet
Joe Kraus, who gave my favorite Startup School speech ever, but what to do in
this format? Launch into a cooked-up pitch? But I wanted to talk to Joe, not
use him for target practice based on his job. But wasn't that kind of what I
was expected to do? Still, what a borderline-presumptuous missionary tack to
take with someone I respect. But wouldn't I get over that knowing teammates
were counting on me to get us funding any way we could?

At last, I decided to skip the pitch, chatted very pleasantly with Joe, got
some great advice and his card. In retrospect, that was really about as much
as I should expect in a five-minute sit-down. He seems twice as much of a
great guy as I thought he was. The pitch can wait until the next time we cross
paths or it's been a lot better tested. But I better recognize now how awkward
these situations can get.

~~~
pg
Probably the optimal plan would be to engage the investor and let them draw
the idea out of you by asking questions. Not just because this is less
aggressive, but because it's more efficient. Preformulated pitches are usually
so bad that it makes my head ache trying to figure out what the company does.
If I could just ask questions I could probably narrow it down pretty rapidly.

~~~
illumen
The 'What do you do' question almost always comes up. Or the 'what are you
working on?' question. That's when you can say your few words about what you
do and what you are working on. If the other person is interested they might
ask a question. You say something like:

"I'm a app/web developer who just finished contracting at the fastest growing
company in the world making apps for fortune 100s and am now working on a
start up doing Travel Guide-Apps."

Their eyes may glaze over half way through your "I'm a web developer..." at
which point you notice this and drop it, ask them what they do, or ask them
some other question.

Anyway, I guess that is basic 101 conversation techniques.

A fun game I used to play with friends in bars/clubs was introducing someone
else. My friend would pretend to be a french student new to the city and I was
introducing them around. Got into some very funny conversations with people...
especially when they realized what the game was.

~~~
dagw
I think you could seriously improve your 'What do you do' answer. If you'd
simply said "I develop travel guide apps" you probably wouldn't get any eye-
glazing and in all likelihood it might even lead to an interesting
conversation about traveling and favorite destinations. Don't brag about how
awesome you are and don't get into details about who you work for or how
awesome they are. Simply state in as high-level terms as possible actual real
world problem you are solving, and don't worry if your short answer isn't
technically correct. If they care you can clear up any confusion when they ask
for more details.

------
Mystalic
Coming from the point of view of somebody who gets pitched daily...

I can barely distinguish them from each other.

Sure, I'll give you my card with contact info, but it doesn't mean I will be
interested when I get the email.

Yes, you did more than most people and had the balls to approach me. Great.
But that won't fix a mediocre product or a product I'm not interested in. I'll
just end up ignoring your email.

I look for cues, such as who is funding you, your background and whether you
got an introduction from somebody I trust. These things are my filters to
finding the stories and startups that matter.

Beyond that, I agree with PG: I prefer ordinary conversations. Again, the
people I know and find genuinely interesting are more likely to catch my
attention when the time comes to pitch me.

~~~
gaius
_I look for cues, such as who is funding you_

Someone has to go first, no? Why do you trust rival VCs more than your own
judgement?

~~~
uniclaude
Either I'm mistaken, or you do not know who you are answering to.

Mystalic is an editor at Mashable, not a VC. Therefore, when asking "who's
funding you" he's not looking for _rival_ VCs, but as he said, for cues. That
does not, however, really invalidate your point of him making is own judgement
instead of filtering by VCs.

------
patio11
So hypothetically if you have a very busy person who is mobbed by a lot of
cold pitches, they might have a bit of pitch fatigue and assume that anybody
cold pitching them is likely about as good a fit as the average cold pitcher,
which is to say "total waste of my time." That very busy, selective individual
probably has friends who are less mobbed by pitchers. Those friends might even
be flattered to hear from you. Pitch them, with the goal of convincing them
your startup/story/invitation to dinner and a movie/etc is so attractive that
it is worth giving a warm intro to their friend. A warm intro in the Valley
appears to be frequently a short two-sentence email: this is how I know X,
here's why he's valuable to you, you guys take it from here.

This is how the real world works, over and over again.

~~~
leviathan
This also works in the dating game where you approach indirectly by striking
up a conversation with the less attractive friend.

------
jonnathanson
I, too, used to suck at approaching women at bars (I still do!). Rather than
polishing up my pickup game, I adopted a different strategy: be interesting.
Go to fun parties. Throw some fun parties. Become known as a cool person to
hang out with, which results in more invitations to more parties. Create your
own momentum.

I suppose the tech-industry corollary here is to do some agenda-free
networking, and build up an agenda-free network. You may have a hidden agenda,
and that's fine, but push it to the way back of your mind for now. You need to
spend time building up a circle. Where to start? If you're in the Bay Area and
working on a startup or a personal project, I'm sure you know at least 5 or 10
other folks in the same boat. Start getting together. Set up a weekly dinner
or drinks. Start finding out about other peoples' dinners and drinks.
Socialize and be interesting. Help other people without any expectation that
they will help you.

This is a slow game, played over a longer term than many people are
comfortable with. But it's a more organic way to meet and "pitch" people. I'd
much rather find a way to become friendly with Big Investor X than find a
perfect 30-second pitch for a chance encounter with Big Investor X. I can
always pitch a friend, after all, if a bit down the line.

 _"But none of my friends is interesting / knows anybody cool / has any
different friends outside our group."_

Time to diversify your social circle, then. Reach out and connect people from
different stages of your life: childhood friends, college friends, work
buddies from former and current jobs, interest-group friends, and so forth. Go
to mixers and meet new people, too.

All of this may sound patently obvious to some folks here, and if you're among
those folks, awesome. Just know that this stuff didn't occur naturally to me,
and I bet a fair number of people are built similarly. I'd always struggled
with the apparent phoniness and strain of "networking," until I learned why: I
was trying to compress a long-term process into short-term transactions. It
felt unnatural because it _was_ unnatural. I was always approaching people out
of the blue and asking for something. That's not a winning strategy for
becoming liked and getting helped. You've got to be doing things for others
before expecting others to do things for you.

~~~
lolcraft
Things are complicated. Beware of the potential phonyness lurking there.
"Instead of making a business offer, pretend to be friends long enough so that
the other party will (maybe) want to make business with you."

Cool and all, but _sometimes_ a pitch is just a pitch, and a fuck is just a
fuck.

Also: personally I would _never_ start a business with a friend I _really_
cared about. _Never_. It's just like having a "friend with benefits": it can
go perfectly or it can be hell on earth.

~~~
jonnathanson
_""Instead of making a business offer, pretend to be friends long enough so
that the other party will (maybe) want to make business with you."_

That's not what I'm saying. Rather, I'm talking about cultivating a network of
friends in and around the business. If one of those friends happens to be an
important person, great. If not, great.

It's possible to have a long-term agenda and not to be mercenarily seeking
things from people along the way. In fact, the less you do the latter, the
better. Ironically enough, you'll probably have an easier time getting help
from people if you're not solely trying to get help from them.

To refer back to the girls-in-bars analogy: you'll have an easier time getting
laid when you're not trying hard to get laid. When you're simply trying to
have a good time and meet interesting people, getting laid is icing on the
cake. It's not the goal, but when it comes along, it's a bonus.

------
joshu
Here is my email address so I can escape this painful conversation. It will be
much easier to ignore your email.

~~~
dpritchett
Similarly, whenever anyone cold calls me or knocks on my door to sell me
services I don't want I ask for a brochure to "read over" later.

------
sunir
My title is literally Chief Handshaker at FreshBooks. I wheel and deal for a
living.

When walking up to people randomly, I find it is immensely helpful to be
genuinely interested in people. They will often pay you back the favour by
being genuinely interested in you afterwards.

To be honest, I do what I do because I love people. They are endlessly
interesting. I don't do it to build my Twitter follower count.

If you walk up pitching they will just turtle and get rid of you. Have faith
they will ask you about you in due course.

~~~
sjs
I guess the question for those of us who aren't inherently interested in
people is how do we build such an interest, curiosity, and love for everyone?
You can't just read Be Here Now and suddenly be enlightened and feel one with
the world.

(The question is not exactly directed at you since you seem to naturally have
such an interest.)

~~~
sunir
I used to be a curmudgeon until my early 20s, wondering how everyone could be
so dumb. Then, enlightenment! I learnt I didn't know everything.

I am just curious. Everyone acts rationally from their point of view. Why do
people do what they do? What makes them successful? Failures? What is their
take on living? Most people are passionate about something, so tell me about
it. I'll learn something new.

I spent a lot of time learning how to actively listen, not just wait for an
opportunity to jump into a conversation with my own immature opinions. (I have
many.) I am not afraid to ask dumb questions in an effort to learn. I have no
fear that people will think I am stupid. Actually, asking questions makes you
look like a genius.

Caveat: There are some people who lack the spark of life. I don't spend time
with them.

~~~
ctdonath
_Most people are passionate about something, so tell me about it._

That's my sticking point: in situations referred to, the person in question
all too often isn't prone to discussing what he _want_ to discuss, but what
his fans do. How to, as a random face wandering up as so many do, can one
elicit some fragment of "say, what do _you_ want to talk about or do?"

The nuance struck me when meeting (as just another face in the room) Steve
Reich and Philip Glass. During a talk, Reich lamented that everyone wanted to
gush over his early works, which he made clear he viewed as immature - not
bad, but something he has moved far beyond. Able to stand nearby someone's
hallway chat with Glass, I was struck by how _much_ the two had to talk about,
how the other person wasn't anyone the great composer knew, and how I had
absolutely nothing to offer/initiate in conversation despite a desire to do so
and an ability to work a conversation well _once_it_started_ on some point -
but alas I had no point to start on.

To wit: when opportune, I want to say to great/famous person X "so, what might
_you_ want to talk about?" but such phrasing is inane.

~~~
dagw
A few years ago my mother helped organize a literature festival and at the
closing banquet was seated next to a famous author with several critically
acclaimed bestsellers to his name. My mother introduced herself and added "I
have to admit I've never actually read any of your books". "Excellent!" the
author replied, "that means we can talk about something else". And they spent
the entire evening having a really great conversation about all manners of
topics. My mother said she could really tell how excited he was to get a
chance actually talk about something other than his books.

------
sid6376
From the comments here, I infer, VCs probably don't like being pitched
unsolicited. Girls don't like being hit on. I have never pitched a VC, so i am
basically theorizing here. The trick is not in approaching them, but
approaching them in a way which does not activate their natural defense
mechanism. If you come across as interesting the girls will give you
attention. Its better to lower their defenses with an approach that they don't
expect.

~~~
klipt
Maybe girls don't like being hit on by the wrong people, or in the wrong way.
But ultimately they do want to be approached by the right guys, or they
wouldn't keep on going to places like bars where one of the main selling
points (unless it's a gay bar) is meeting people of the opposite sex.

------
cek
Great article.

The first thing I do when mentoring noob entrepreneurs/founders is ask them
about their networks.

"How are you growing it?"

"Who are your mentors?"

"Who are your mentees?"

"Who are the big-wigs in your network?"

I have found, much to my surprise, given that I'm a "black belt ninja
networker type" (apparently;per the article) that people haven't really given
much thought to these questions.

They know (or get the sense) that having a strong network is important but
they've never really worked on building it.

This article provides some good insight on how to build your network.
Specifically it makes it clear that in order to build your network you MUST
NOT BE SHY.

It also makes it clear that it's work.

As I like to say: "Building your network requires, well, that you build your
network."

~~~
jadoint
Hi, I've been an HN lurker for a few months but finally signed up today just
to inquire about mentors when I saw your comment. I am a complete beginner
when it comes to startups. In fact, I happened to stumble into my niche rather
accidentally. How do I go about finding great mentors or at least a group of
like-minded people that I can learn from? If it helps, I'm currently located
in NJ about 45 mins from NYC. I apologize in advance if this is a strange
venue to ask this type of advice. Thanks!

~~~
cek
I searched Bing for "New York Tech Startup Calendar" and got this:

<http://startup-ventures.meetup.com/cities/us/ny/new_york/>

Just start attending events, smiling, and introducing yourself to people. Make
sure you are not shy about asking for what you are looking for. For example
"I'm just figuring this startup thing out. I think I've got some great ideas
but I don't have any mentors. If you know of any one I could talk to that
would be great."

Good luck!

------
neurotech1
I remember meeting Mike Arrington at TechCrunch Disrupt, and he said that he
"hates being pitched to [unsolicited], I'll probably think its a bad idea. I
thought twitter was a bad idea.." Not sure how that changes with CrunchFund.

My guess is that some Angels/VCs are way more approachable than others.

~~~
donalddesantis
Agreed. While most people (incl. me) can benefit from moving outside their
comfort zone and be more assertive, you still have to use
judgement/discretion. It's a challenging line to tow. I've got it wrong at
least as many times as I've got it right. I'd like to think that my instincts
in this regard have improved over time.

------
tgrass
The price tag is key: if I'd pay someone ten dollars to make my pitch...

Ten bucks? Whether its a phone number I want or a pitch I'm making, ten bucks
is way low. And if I'd pay a hundred for either, clearly I ought to suck it up
and get in there ans get what I want.

Put a price on it. Makes you realize when you are just being a little bitch.

------
codeslush
"I didn’t get the first phone number I asked for, nor the second. In fact, the
first number probably came somewhere between tries five and ten."

This applies to so many different areas of life that it should just be made a
rule, if it isn't already.

------
FreshCode
getting good at "game" has led to improvements in almost every other aspect of
my life, including pitching.

~~~
brk
Funny. I have recommended 'The Game' by Neil Strauss to more than one person
for reasons beyond just meeting women. Learning how to start and manage a
conversation are powerful tools.

~~~
FreshCode
I wonder how many "hacker players" hang out on HN? :)

------
mittermayr
it's a tough thing to accept, but you outlined it pretty well. most things
don't just happen. nobody believes it's the time, place, moment and right
person to "risk" being declined, ignored or laughed at. and that's so wrong.
people who succeed, typically, tend to be a bit more open than others.
everything else is an excuse to hope for pure chance or being discovered. and
in all reality, try it with beers, go to a bar, hit on a random girl, just to
get started again. it will be really, really tough at first.

------
aneth
I agree overcoming "approach anxiety" is key to just about any goal that
requires someone else to be attracted to you in one way or another - dating,
investing, friendship, ordering a drink in a crowded bar, ....

However, the key to ultimate success in all of these is that the person needs
to _like_ you and _respect_ you. Girls don't like guys that approach them and
rattle off about how funny they are, how much money they make, and what a
great lover they are. Girls respect guys who are confident and layered, not
guys who throw all their cards on the table in a 30 second pitch in a
desperate attempt to be liked. Bartenders will first serve patient, confident,
respectful customers, not eager, aggressive douchebags flashing twenties and
snapping fingers.

Not being a super-experienced investor or fundraiser, I'll leave the
translation to investment pitches up to others, but I have a mixed reaction to
this post. For most people, the hardest part of reaching out to others is
shutting down the the internal chatter that talks them out of opening the
door. How you conduct yourself afterwards though, is also incredibly
important.

I suspect investors as a class try to grit their teeth and discount
awkwardness and narcissism in the hopes of finding the next Mark Zuckerberg,
however I also think being a genuine and likable person - which for the most
part means genuinely liking other people - is a great path to a good
relationship in this and any other circumstance.

~~~
peteretep
There seem to be an infinite number of parallels between 'the game' and
networking in general. I worked for 4 years as a full-time dating coach, and
many years before that trying to get my game up to scratch, and the benefits
in contacts, in rapport building, in sales arenas, in any area where I need to
present, are immeasurable.

------
billpatrianakos
Awesome! Not only is this good business advice for me but it also gave me some
dating pointers which I, as a newly single, rusty, guy, probably needs.
Thanks.

