
Rock climber Alex Honnold doesn’t experience fear like the rest of us - beefield
http://nautil.us/issue/39/sport/the-strange-brain-of-the-worlds-greatest-solo-climber
======
forgotpwtomain
For such along article (and I did enjoy some of it) they spent almost no time
on describing the study methodology.

> Nowhere in the fear center of Honnold’s brain could the neuroscientist spot
> activity.

Could this be solely accounted for in the selection of pictures and experience
of the participant? Compare e.g. the response to the sound of explosions for
someone that has lived in the US vs. someone who has lived in Damascus the
past couple years.

edit: Not sure why this is being down-voted? Is there a detailed description
of methodology that I missed somewhere?

~~~
madaxe_again
Well, they do touch on desensitisation as a potential route to how he ended up
as he is, so it's possible that he's equally desensitised to gruesome imagery.
They don't mention much about the control subject other than that he's also a
climber - but he may come from a culture where the kind of imagery described
is less prevalent.

I'm a high sensation seeker - I don't climb, but I do skydive, bungee, and I
love to ski at ludicrous speed down unmarked terrain - flying off a cornice
that you didn't see and having to think fast about where and how to land is a
crazy rush. Why I mention this - I can identify with the visualisation and
memory rewrite process he describes. I am, by no means, master of my amygdala
- but more often than not I am. I think about the bad possibilities of
anything I'm about to do, and visualise avoiding or dealing with them. I
rehearse in my head. By the time I get to the real thing it's old hat. There's
no fear, just supreme confidence that I know what I'm doing. It's the same
sort of process one goes through before pitching to a customer or investors.
Rehearse mentally until it's easy, even if you've never done it before.

When I do have an unfortunate experience, like chopping off a thumb, knocking
myself out, or shattering a hand because I forgot that trees are quite hard at
100mph, I revisit it until it's funny, and no longer regrettable and
associated with pain, both in my own mind and by recounting the tale. Having a
wilful disregard for the integrity of your own body is quite useful - I know
I'm not bulletproof but I don't mind the missing and numb bits.

That all said, once in a while I find myself with shaking legs, tunnel vision,
and all the rest - usually from stupid and inconsequential shit that,
critically, I didn't anticipate - like his ten foot fall.

I remember the moment I figured it out, aged seven, halfway down an icey mogul
black, panicking and crying, and then suddenly realising that I didn't know
what I was scared of - and then blasting down the piste, realising that it was
all about just believing that you can and it'll all be fine and just getting
on with it.

Anyway. My two cents is that you can self modify and override "hardwired"
behaviour with only moderate conscious effort, and far more people do this
than we currently realise.

------
Fricken
I was four when I saw on television a special that featured either Peter Croft
or John Bachar free soloing a granite face somewhere in Yosemite and I decided
then and there that that was the most badass thing a person could do.

I've been obsessed with climbing ever since, and progressed from furniture to
trees to nearby buildings, and it wasn't until I was 16 I finally got my own
car and gear and independently made the 4 hour drive to the nearest natural
vertical face to climb it. This was in the early 90s, before climbing gyms
were common.

Though I decided not long after, after spending most of a day stranded 2/3rds
of the way up a cliff that I had taken it as far as I was willing to go as a
free soloist.

Alex Honnold is something else.

~~~
hentrep
I was under the impression that Alex practices each free solo route multiple
times while roped.

I'm by no means discounting his accomplishments and skills, but rather
highlighting that it isn't quite as reckless as it first appears.

~~~
Fricken
Here's a video that touches on Honnold's prep for his ascent of El Sendoro
Luminoso. Given that it's likely the most difficult ropeless climb in history
(and on limestone, which is far more prone to breaking holds than Yosemite
granite), he wasn't exactly super meticulous:

[https://youtu.be/Phl82D57P58](https://youtu.be/Phl82D57P58)

At lower grades he has been known to just go for it.

~~~
pierrec
It's pretty crazy with 11 pitches rated 5.12, but it's still not the most
difficult free solo that's been done. For example Honnold himself free soloed
5.13, and Dave MacLeod free soloed a 5.14b. These are only single-pitch but
they're still tall enough to classify as free solo (as opposed to
bouldering/highball). And don't go thinking that 11 pitches of 5.12 is harder
than one pitch of 5.14. Lots of people can do 11 pitches of 5.12 without
falling. Only an extremely small portion of these can send a 5.14 - rope or no
rope, when someone sends that grade it often ends up in the news (well,
climber news, of course).

~~~
justinator
> Only an extremely small portion of these can send a 5.14 > \- rope or no
> rope, when someone sends that grade it often > ends up in the news (well,
> climber news, of course).

Rarely does anyone make even climbing news climbing 5.14, as the limit now for
sport climbing is 5.15c and bouldering is V16. There are routes rated 5.14 at
the gym I frequent that get sent nightly. Granted I live in Boulder CO, lots
of pro climbers do as well, and grades at gyms are often soft, but still...

The last time 5.14 was newsworthy was the first female ascent of a trad. route
in Boulder Canyon

[http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web16b/newswire-china-
doll-5.14-...](http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web16b/newswire-china-
doll-5.14-heather-weidner-interview)

and the Dawn Wall, which is 32 pitches,

[https://www.mountainproject.com/v/dawn-wall-
free/109951912](https://www.mountainproject.com/v/dawn-wall-free/109951912)

a few of which are rated 5.14.

Perhaps Ashima makes news climbing 5.14's, but it's also because she's still a
teenager.

There's a dude that works as a routesetter at my gym that just sent 5.15. His
instagram was pretty popular for a while, but he's just a dude.

[http://www.rockandice.com/climbing-news/jon-cardwell-
sends-b...](http://www.rockandice.com/climbing-news/jon-cardwell-sends-
biographie-realization-5-15a)

5.14 made big news 25 years ago with routes like Action Directe. Things have
progressed since then.

IMHO rating comparing a one pitch 5.14 and a 11 pitch 5.12 is comparing two
different things. :shrug:

~~~
pierrec
You guys in Boulder CO have all the mutant climbers. You should see our little
Ontario climbing news outlets! I'm pretty sure there's only one guy in the
entire province that even _sets_ indoor 5.14 (despite having quite a few gyms,
I believe at least 15). Anyways, it was a bit overboard and in terms of
international climbing news, I very much agree with you.

~~~
justinator
> You guys in Boulder CO have all the mutant climbers

There's some truth to this. Just today, I was bouldering next to a dude that
look somewhat familiar. Turns out it's Paul Robinson, just here traveling
through town.

Took a few tries to nail a V12 set, didn't even look like he broke a sweat.

------
sgrytoyr
I feel compelled to post this video whenever Honnold comes up. Here he is
free-soloing El Sendero Luminoso:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Phl82D57P58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Phl82D57P58)

He really is something else.

~~~
arcticfox
Amazing video. I went to see him speak and he introduced himself with that,
and then quickly went over his philosophy about the risk of death as "the
boring stuff".

He seems genuinely sick of discussion about death, which at first shocked me
(shouldn't someone _tell_ him that almost every free soloist dies?! It's
irresponsible not to!).

But if you listen to him, it's immediately apparent that he's fully cognizant
of the situation. After just a few minutes even I was annoyed by the hypocrisy
and judgment when someone questioned his risk assessment. And he has to deal
with that almost every time he interacts with people outside of his inner
circle. I can hardly imagine how frustrating that must be.

~~~
rwallace
Almost every free soloist dies? Literally? That would make it the most
dangerous hobby in the world? Are there any references or discussions on that
handy?

~~~
justinator
Well everyone dies.

If you mean, "died while freesoloing", you've got,

* Derek Hersey * John Bachar

off the top of my head. There are others,

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_solo_climbing#Notable_acc...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_solo_climbing#Notable_accidents)

Dan Osman died from a roped fall (jumped with the intent of the rope system to
slow his fall), not a free solo. Dean Potter died from a wingsuit accident,
which "literally" is probably the most dangerous hobby.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatalities_due_to_wing...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatalities_due_to_wingsuit_flying)

"72 percent of fliers had witnessed death or serious injury, and 76 percent
had experienced what they categorized as a “near miss.”
[http://www.newsweek.com/2014/09/12/thrilling-deadly-world-
wi...](http://www.newsweek.com/2014/09/12/thrilling-deadly-world-wingsuit-
flying-267468.html)

Dean Potter on Heaven,
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRUkolahw58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRUkolahw58)

~~~
Hoasi
The late, great Patrick Edlinger survived a terrible fall before retiring,
only to fall into depression.

------
sergioisidoro
Fear is crippling. But safety if also misleading.

I do aerial acrobatics, I've tried to battle fear of heights when being 5/10m
up and making a drop, having to be sure that I did the correct moves and the
rope will stop my fall. The only safety I have is a 2 by 2m crash mat that
won't protect me from broken bones. Not to mention that falling to the mat in
the wrong position or outside of the mat will also have potentially serious
consequences. And yet when I don't have it, something goes off in my mind and
it gets much scarier. I'm afraid of doing anything, even the most
inconsequential moves.

Fear is irrational, and I've realised that safety is sometimes psychological
and misleading. You'll likely put yourself in more dangerous situations by
having a safety net, and knowing you can fail. Thing is, safety also fails,
and you can also fail in setting up the safety material (knots, ropes, mats).

My point: This guy knows the consequences of every move, will be much careful
in execution of every step. Much more than if he had a rope. He can't afford
to get distracted, while someone with a rope will likely pay less attention to
details.

------
toss1
"many high sensation seekers’ problematic behaviors involve intense
experiences that can be pursued impulsively and without obvious immediate
consequences, such as binge drinking or drug use....Joseph wonders if that
energy could be redirected into high-arousal activities—such as rock climbing,
but with protective gear—that by their nature involve constraint,
premeditation, and specific goals, reinforcing different life patterns."

I read some time ago about a drug treatment program centered around rock
climbing, said to have astonishingly high success rates. But then I never
heard much more about it. Perhaps it doesn't scale due to small supply of
climbing teachers and/or large supply of skeptics?

~~~
forgotpwtomain
I grew up getting dragged along on climbing trips, also competed briefly (my
father as most of his friends were mountaineers). It's a great sport and
community. Most significantly, that you can climb with a relative stranger and
trust them to belay you (even if it's just top rope) is a wonderful thing I
think most people never experience (I'm rationalizing in retrospect now) -
still I think this is part of the underlying basis which makes the community
so much more trusting and friendly. Also the outdoors, physical exertion etc.

Do you have a link for the study?

~~~
toss1
Yes, climbing is a very cool sport and community. I wish I had a link, but it
was years ago that I read it.

------
sn9
Tim Ferriss actually did a podcast interview with Honnold [0] and it delved
into how he handles fear and thinks about risk in his own life. A really great
interview.

[0] [http://fourhourworkweek.com/2016/05/17/alex-
honnold/](http://fourhourworkweek.com/2016/05/17/alex-honnold/)

------
carsongross
To quote Bill Burr on Lance Armstrong:

"The guy was a sociopath on a bicycle. As far as I'm concerned, we got off
easy!"

Just keep him on the rocks...

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uol6e5YAPqs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uol6e5YAPqs)

------
WhitneyLand
Why not just get rid of the amygdala? Looks like it doesn't reduce brain
function. If you can live with the 3% mortality rate, maybe a lifetime free of
anxiety?

[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18590383](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18590383)

~~~
trhway
Wrt. Honnold's amygdala - it isn't clear that his amygdala doens't work - at
least looking at the brain scans of Honnold and of a control climber's one can
see that the control's brain has the signal going all the way from the visual
cortex (back of the neck) to the amygdala, while Honnold's brain doesn't seem
to conduct that signal to the amygdala. According to the article both climbers
were _looking_ at the same arousing images. One can wonder - how about scary
sounds or touches - would Honnold's amygdala receive such signal from the
corresponding parts of the brain processing such sensory input? Or
alternatively - if we instead of getting rid of amygdala just block or
attenuate the signal pathways to it?

------
fletchowns
Nothing else makes my palms as sweaty as when I watch videos of Alex Honnold
free soloing.

~~~
steveax
I've watched many free soloists that make me nervous, but I don't get nervous
watching Honnold. He is so amazingly solid, so methodical, so smooth.

~~~
mr_overalls
Indeed. From his facial expressions and body language, I get the feeling he is
utterly dialed in to a personal real-time risk-assessment algorithm. He is
100% focused on rational self-preservation, given the parameters of the task
at hand.

------
was_boring
There's a great documentary on the history of climbing in Yosemite called
Valley Uprising that he is in (albeit towards the end). Truly remarkable what
they do.

~~~
vanattab
I love this documentary. It's entertaining even for non climbers. Netflix.

------
cko
Slightly relevant video about him living in a van:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CArfaGmYuGM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CArfaGmYuGM)

------
niels_olson
> "This is what I do".

Kelly Slater and I'm sure many other athletes have expressed a similar
sentiment.

I suspect there are other professionals, mathematicians, physicians,
playwrights, who have a similar sentiment. I wonder if a rather simple model
of this is that their neural nets are highly optimized for the task. And if
that's the case, is that a tell for a task that can or can't be automated?

Can a machine drop into a triple-overhead wave and throw improv tricks with
grace? What does grace mean to the machine? Dignity?

------
jonah
I followed with rapt attention the first free-climb of the Dawn Wall[1] but
free soloing is orders of magnitude more incredible and he makes it look so
easy. Amazingly talented guy.

[1][http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/15/sports/el-capitans-dawn-
wa...](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/15/sports/el-capitans-dawn-wall-
climbers-near-top-yosemite.html)

------
sakopov
Here is a great interview with Joe Rogan (yeah, i know) where Alex shares
information about his climbs and free soloing in general.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OusYaNWBy08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OusYaNWBy08)

~~~
zeddie
Your comment suggests reservations about Joe Rogan content...what are they?

------
takk309
Here is the NatGeo talk that is referenced at the beginning of the article.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFfTHoJ9khs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFfTHoJ9khs)

------
CaptainReality
He probably won't experience old-age, child-rearing, and working to improve
his local community like the rest of us either. Because he'll likely be dead
in the next few years.

------
bdrool
I am unable to read articles about fMRI results without thinking of this:

[http://www.wired.com/2009/09/fmrisalmon/](http://www.wired.com/2009/09/fmrisalmon/)

~~~
sliverstorm
A humors piece, thank you!

In Honnold's case, they may be safe from this, as it's the _total absence_ of
signal relative to a control subject that is interesting, not activity in some
unexpected region of the brain.

------
guard-of-terra
Frankly I don't understand why people turn risk of falling into risk of death.

Why can't they make some device for him, say, a thick-ish belt, which will
make him hang inside of a sphere full of compressed gas, after a second of
free fall? Not unlike how car SRS work?

Why don't ships have inflatable balloons strapped to their hulls that would
allow them to float indefinitely? We still have sinking ferries with hundreds
dead that could perhaps been fully prevented?

~~~
CamperBob2
_Why can 't they make some device for him, say, a thick-ish belt, which will
make him hang inside of a sphere full of compressed gas, after a second of
free fall? Not unlike how car SRS work?_

Probably because the inflation of such a sphere, like an airbag going off,
would be an incredibly violent event in itself. Also, decelerating inside the
confines of a small sphere wouldn't be much gentler than just hitting the
ground at full speed.

Some sort of jet-assist contraption to slow your descent might be a better
bet. It would arm itself when it senses that you've fallen, and fire the next
time it senses that it's upright.

I have a feeling that a lot of people who die in this sport are either
paralyzed or dead before they hit the ground, due to collisions with
outcroppings in the rock face. Free climbing isn't something that you would
want to do if you have the slightest concern for your own neck, and I don't
think any number of Rube Goldberg gadgets will change that.

