
Nobody Cares - bennesvig
http://bennesvig.com/2012/08/09/nobody-cares/
======
jonnathanson
_"You should care because nobody else does"_

Sure. It's a decent enough reason. But it seems born from an overly cynical
thesis.

How about a better reason? Care because you want to. Make a conscious effort
to give every stranger you encounter the benefit of the doubt. Some will prove
you wrong, naturally. But until they do, they're presumed innocent.

It's actually pretty remarkable how much of a difference this approach can
make in your daily life. People on HN like to talk about "expanding their luck
surface area," and other terms of that nature. Well, being genuinely
interested in other people is one of the better ways to do it.

Our lives are stressful. Our patience is thin. Our guard is up. All of that
seems to come with the territory of modern life. But resolving to push that
crap down, and treat other people respectfully, takes an enormous amount of
strength. And it's a mark of good character.

Have something you stand for in life. Have a code. Make being a good, friendly
person part of that code. This isn't corny. This is strong. This is _badass_.
James Bond lives by a code. Batman lives by a code. See if you can rise to the
challenge, and do the same.

~~~
AznHisoka
It's also mentally exhausting and drains your willpower. While it may be a
sign of good character, being like that 24/7 (even when you don't feel like
it) is a good recipe for driving you insane eventually.

~~~
taroth
Making a "code" is like building a habit. Maintaining the code might be tiring
at first, but consistently caring about others, just like consistently
brushing your teeth, will inevitably get easier. If you truly are feeling
exhausted/insane after treating people well for a day, its unlikely you think
people are worth treating well to begin with.

~~~
drumdance
Exactly. You weren't born with the instict to say "fine, how are you you" or
"please" and "thank you." You were taught to do that by your parents.

Habits like this are a muscle that can be developed. Relatedly, the concept of
ego depletion: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_depletion>

~~~
AznHisoka
I think most humans are kind by nature, since we're social beings. In a
setting like a tribe or a small community, it's relatively easy since we
depend and know everyone else. It's when we have to be like that to everyone,
including strangers.. that's tough.

------
code177
This seems like a very cynical article. On the behalf of everyone in Canada,
the UK, and Australia, it's very common for people to reciprocate this sort of
courtesy and genuinely mean it. In fact, I'd go as far to say that most people
would be downright offended if you didn't reciprocate.

Similarly, most people go out of their way to thank transit drivers, and
everyone holds doors. Perhaps an American could share some insight.

~~~
protomyth
Seems pretty cynical to me too, but I've lived in either North Dakota or
Minnesota for a couple of decades. It takes so little effort to be nice and
have a conversation with people. Who knows, you might make the teller laugh
and get through their day easier.

[from the article] Does anyone who has ever said “have a good one” actually
mean it?

Yep, I do mean it. I'm that sap. I wish you well and still sign all my e-mail
"keep safe". I mean that too. The world can be an unforgiving place, no need
for me to not help you along.

~~~
StavrosK
I am rather dismayed by the lack of interaction between people in my country
(Greece). We don't talk to strangers at all, not even to say hi or hold a door
open or anything. It's a cultural thing, people just don't think to talk to
other people.

That's all I wanted to say, have a good day!

~~~
coderdude
It's like that in southern California. Most people out here act cold and just
want to keep to their own. People rarely say hello to anyone they pass on the
streets. Just keep your eyes pointed forward and maybe you won't have to
interact with another person. The mean streets of Orange County.

~~~
saryant
That was the biggest difference I noticed when I moved from the Bay Area to
Texas. Everyone says hello, everyone asks how you're doing. I grew up thinking
no one was ever nice to a stranger. It was unnerving at first but frankly it's
more pleasant this way.

And it's not just the south, been this way everywhere else I go in the middle
of the country.

(Except on Houston's roads, of course. That's a different world entirely)

------
kephra
Moin,

There is one nice thing about traditional frisian greeting:

The first one greets, moin and the traditional answer is moin,moin. We often
confuse people from southern Germany and the rest of the world, because we use
that greeting around the clock, even if moin sounds a lot lot like morning.

But the translation of moin is just good. So we avoid all those how are you,
fine thank you nonsense, and just greet each other with good and good,good.

------
randallsquared
_Have a good what? Have a good time? Have a good weekend? Have a good life?_

Day. It means "have a good _day_ ".

~~~
sirmarksalot
It's funny, the first time I heard this, I thought it was a really neat thing
to say. It's like wishing somebody a good day, weekend, evening, whatever, not
worrying too much about the specifics. The kind of laziness that seems more
sincere.

Now it's become just another greeting, part of our business culture. The fact
that it's probably in some ESL textbook kind of kills the intent. Probably a
sign that I'm getting old.

Anybody know what the young people are saying to each other nowadays? Aside
from racist, homophobic slurs, I mean.

------
nicolethenerd
"Does your server really care how the first few bites are?"

On first pass, I read this and thought he spelled 'bytes' wrong. ^_^

~~~
Xcelerate
Ha ha, wow! I thought I was the only one who read it that way.

~~~
ChuckMcM
Your server really cares, its those first few bites that tell it the packet is
meant for them :-)

------
sjtgraham
The first thing I do when interacting with someone who is providing me a
service is ask them how their day is going. Why? Because no one does this (I'm
in London), more often than not it really makes a positive difference to this
persons day, i.e. they are genuinely shocked that someone gives a shit (I do
by the way) and it doesn't cost me a single thing to do.

I think it's something everyone should do.

~~~
ema
>I think it's something everyone should do.

Nah, i don't think so, because most people (me included) wouldn't actually
care and then it would devolve into meaningless politeness. I prefer that only
the people (like you) who actually care signal that they care.

~~~
pm90
I think he meant that everyone should care, not just that everyone should say
the words. I guess its really up to you whether you want to do it or not, but
it is a pleasant attribute

~~~
saraid216
Actually, if you do certain things while saying the words, it will help make
you care.

There are two things you need to do:

(1) say it intentionally. Pay attention to how you say it, and deliver it
earnestly with your head up and be prepared to

(2) listen to the response. Give due consideration to the answer and don't
dismiss it. This is a window into someone else's life: treasure it, regard it
with curiosity, but not intrusively.

Most people will start actually caring about the other person as a result of
doing this a few times.

~~~
blogkitten
THIS.

I have a coworker who, upon arriving to the office every morning, walks by my
desk and asks* "How are you doing?" and every morning I say "fine" with
varying levels of sarcasm (and eyerolls). Does she ever notice my tone? Nope.
She just parrots back "that's good!"

Most of the time, I think people are programmed to ask out of some socially
expected behavior...but I'm pretty sure they don't want to hear what the
actual answer is.

"Well, I woke up to my cat knocking a vase off a table and having to clean up
broken glass at 2:30 in the morning. Then when my alarm went off, I got out of
bed and stepped right in a pile of cat puke. Oh, I'm also crampy and I hate
this job."

Somehow I don't think that will go over too well.

____

* as much as one can ask when their face is engaged in whatever is on their smartphone and not what's going on in front of them.

------
capsule_toy
In the US at least, please stop analyzing these types of social interactions
literally. The subtext is quite different. Basically, "Hi, how are you doing?"
is the equivalent of "Hi, I'm being a pleasant person going through this
standard cultural greeting." Expecting something more from this pattern shows
a poor understanding of the culture.

Breaking out of this is easy. As other people have mentioned, simply departing
from the script is effective. For example, you can follow-up "Hi, how are you
doing?" with "How's your day been going?" or "It's pretty busy in here."
There's also subtext here and it's basically "I'd like to engage in a
conversation."

I'm not even sure how you ask a person how they're doing in a way that lets
them know you mean it without sounding condescending.

------
plnewman
I return the "how are you?" question with equivalent replies in shops all the
time and if recipients were annoyed by it, I don't recall noticing. Being
pleasant frequently helps me feel more pleasant. And anyway, I actually do
hope they have a great day. I hope everyone has a great day.

~~~
sbank
I almost always ask how they are doing too, and never have I noticed (or don't
remember) someone being annoyed by me asking.

------
powerslave12r
I always genuinely care and end up looking like a smug asshole most of the
time but there are a few times when someone does seem to feel really good that
I care.

You should see how much meat they pack on my subs at the local sub place. ;)

------
ionfish
I don't care that nobody cares. I care that they pretend that they do. Fake
friendliness is annoying, and good service is not formulaic.

~~~
Jare
Come to Spain then, most people don't care and there's no effort to hide that.
Stuff like this happens often:

\- having to chase a store clerk while he flees and tries to hide because his
chatting with his friend on the cell is obviously more important.

\- "Oh could you also please bring ..." replied with a "why didn't you say
that before?" at say a restaurant.

I used to be annoyed by fake attention in the North Americas, but after a
couple years back here, gawd how I miss fake. They may not really care about
me, but they care about trying to make the experience pleasant for the
customer.

~~~
jerf
I live in the US Midwest. Yes, it is true that if someone asks you casually
"How are you?" they are not expecting your life story, and the waiter's
question about "how's the food so far?" is generally not an invitation to give
a three paragraph review of the food. But it is legitimately a time to ask for
refills, and a clerk's question is legitimately a time to tell them about the
bathroom being dirty or something. It may not be a close personal connection
and you may not invite them to your son's graduation party, but it isn't quite
the null, empty question this essay portrays, either. It's better than being
ignored.

Fun hack: "How are you?", "What's up?", "Hey", etc., are all fungible. It is
perfectly acceptable to answer "What's up?" with "Hey" or a question in
return. Fun.

~~~
hythloday
Taken to extremes by the colloquial English greeting of "alright?" where the
answer is "alright" and the formal introduction of "how do you do?" which is
responded to with "how do you do?" with no change of inflection.

------
sgdesign
Somewhat related: am I the only one who's not in love with the new trend of
startups sending fake "personal" messages to new users?

I know you want to show you care, but I haven't had 5 minutes to try out your
app and you're already asking me if I need any help and when we can schedule a
Skype call so you can show me all your cool features.

I usually just ignore these messages, but always feel slightly bad on the off
chance that it actually _wasn't_ an automated message and I just snubbed a
real person.

~~~
mnicole
Ugh, thank you for bringing those up. These are particularly bad when I sign
up for enterprise trials for work. It's clever when they utilize their metrics
to calculate how much time I spent on the site and then send a message
corresponding with that length/depth that offers to better acclimate me to the
product or just get me through a problem I may have had.

But recently? I didn't even _go_ to that site when I got the launch email.
Instead of asking me why (through a form on your site, not one-on-one through
an email) or nudging me to check if now's a better time to poke around,
they're going to do a personal webinar for me?

I recently had this kind of inbox harassment on my home account and every time
I saw another email asking me to _connect_ with them, I felt a little sad.
Were they having a hard time reaching the numbers they wanted? Was everything
okay at HQ? Kind of depressing, but that's the only way I could justify the
amount of emails I was receiving without ever showing interest except for
whatever time and dimension it was when I signed up to begin with.

I don't really know why I put myself through it, the unsubscribe button is
right there. I guess it just kind of fascinates me, the combination of hot
messes that are creepy sales outreach and HTML emails.

Maybe I'm just too loose with my email.

Maybe I just care too much.

------
dasil003
A corollary is there's a limit to what you can effectively care about.

A big part of what makes us geeks is caring _too much_ about the wrong things
(according to normals anyway).

~~~
chollida1
> A corollary is there's a limit to what you can effectively care about.

In absolute terms, maybe, I'm not sure.

But in relative terms, by definition, there is a limit to what you can care
about.

Care more about your job than your kids, that's a problem. Care more about
your friends than your spouse at a time when they need your support, that's a
problem.

~~~
saraid216
> In absolute terms, maybe, I'm not sure.

Check out Dunbar's Number (a.k.a. the monkeysphere).

------
MarkMc
This article identifies a secret weapon that startups have when competing with
a large, established business.

I have worked as a programmer for (a) several large banks and (b) my own
startup business: Nothing comes close to the level of care you feel to your
users when you run your own business.

When a user gets a NullPointerException, I take personal responsibility and
want to fix it as soon as possible. When a user emails me a question, I want
to answer it well and as soon as possible. If the software looks ugly or is
not intuitive, I get a strong urge to improve it.

They say that a good programmer can be 10 times as productive as an average
programmer. Well it is also true that a good programmer can be 10 times as
productive as him/herself - it depends on the environment.

------
btilly
The key element is this. Do you view customer support as a cost center or a
sales channel? If a cost center, then you as a company are not going to care.
If as a sales channel, then you as a company are going to care, and are likely
to going to need premium pricing somewhere to pay for that.

Note, one of the offered examples is MediaTemple. I know the people at
MediaTemple pretty well, and when I made that comment to them they all agreed
with me that MediaTemple views customer support as a sales channel. It also
has premium pricing compared to the rest of the web hosting industry. So while
I cannot vouch from first hand experience that my comment fits all companies
that care, I know it does fit that one.

------
gatordan
The angst in this post is really off putting. It reads like a series of
observations by someone having a bad day after reading a book about
existentialism (Mark Cuban is more likely to answer my emails than my
friends?). He hints that caring can make you more successful as a business.
But ultimately decides that we should care more simply to seperate ourselves
from an uncaring world... because nobody cares. I don't find this particularly
relevant.

------
sofal
Serious question here, not even joking: do you care about the mobile visitors
to your site? Do you care that there is an obnoxious floating "contact" widget
popping out from the side covering the text I want to read? This sort of thing
happens on so many other websites too that I think it ironically fits right
into the topic. I think a lot of people need to visit their own websites on a
smartphone.

------
mathattack
If your products are Target priced, it's uneconomical to care too much. If you
work at McDonalds, caring too much will drive you nuts.

If your product is Tiffany priced, you'd better care a lot. If you work at the
French Laundry, you'd better care a lot, and make sure your peers do too.

In either case, losing touch of the customer will force you to lose touch with
the business.

------
jack-r-abbit
When I am interacting with someone who is "serving" me in some way and they
ask how I am doing... I almost always ask them back. It is quite interesting
the different reactions I get. They pretty much _have_ to be pleasant and I
think it throws them off when people are pleasant by choice.

~~~
munin
this is kind of a jerk thing to do because a server / cashier person basically
has to be nice even if they feel crappy so when you ask them "how are you
doing" you are forcing them to lie.

do you feel better now?

~~~
jack-r-abbit
I don't do it to make myself feel better. I care. I've had plenty of them tell
me they're having a bad day or what have you.

~~~
substr
But cashiers/servers probably get asked that same question "how are you?" a
hundred times per day. Customers who think they are being nice by starting
small talk may have the opposite affect. It's all context really.Small talk in
a busy line is probably not the best idea.

~~~
sray
It all depends on the person, and there's no way to tell without asking. If
someone doesn't want to talk, it's quite easy to tell from their response to
the question. If that's the case, you end the conversation there, and nobody
cares.

Anecdotally, I have started many conversations with service people this way,
and I'm not much of a talker. In fact, it's usually them telling me about how
horribly things are going, and I just listen. It's interesting how often a
perfect stranger will open up to you if you just show a little empathy.

------
runawaybottle
There is truly nothing interesting about this observation, and pretty much a
juvenile insight. Yes, give a shit about what you do, it'll be apparent in
your work, yadadada.

As for the whole 'care about other people', that's just so ridiculous, I'm not
even sure how this is on the frontpage.

------
hardik988
Recently, many articles (including this one) on HN have provoked one reaction
from me : "Um, yeah. What's so special about this? Maybe if you look harder,
you're wrong"

I always ask back, "How are you doing?", and have always received a smile and
a "Good, thank you" in response - never offense.

Maybe if you didn't lie to the cashier at Target and told them what you didn't
find, you would notice that some people might go out of their way to help you.

Have a good one? If we start being so literal about everything in English,
we're going down a very dangerous road.

It's funny that the author is writing on the topic of "caring", but himself
comes across as cynical and overtly negative.

------
benwerd
Wait, you're not supposed to ask how the other person's doing? Really? :(

------
drumdance
When I get the "how are you" question I often answer "Oh, about an 8. How
about you?" Always gets a smile.

Wish I could say I invented that but I stole it.

------
jonny_eh
When I ask someone how they're doing and they say "good" it makes me a feel a
tiny bit better. I don't know if they're lying or not, but I feed off of their
good feelings none-the-less.

I usually "pay it forward" by also trying to be generally positive when
interacting with strangers.

------
bking
Thanks for the succinct bit of observation! It is something that no one really
picks up on, but when you are told about it all you can think is "huh, that
really makes sense". For that I thank you. I am going to go really ask someone
how their day is going. =)

------
sneak
Telling people to care that don't already won't have the effect you are
looking for. It's like telling the sky to be green.

Good plan otherwise, though.

------
jawr
Slightly off topic, but the dollar shave club splash video is brilliant.

------
michaelochurch
There was a meme at Google with a tombstone and the caption "Cared Too Fucking
Much". I won't get into the story behind that meme, other than the observation
that caring too much can be very damaging.

I think people develop the blah attitude after exposure to the consequences of
caring too much. At some point, they overcompensate by getting the attitude
that nothing is worth caring about, as opposed to the more reasonable and
strategic decision not to care most of the time.

