
Ask HN: Paid PhD or Silicon Valley? - autothrowaway
Hello HN!<p>I&#x27;m at a crossroads in my life with two very different paths and I&#x27;m not sure of which to pick. For context, I&#x27;m 25&#x2F;F with a MSME currently in the midwest. I&#x27;m in a unique situation and am looking for advice.<p>My current options:<p>1. Paid PhD ($90k salary + tuition) at a midwest state university. In exchange, I sign a service commitment with the Department of Energy for ~15 years after the PhD is completed.<p>2. Move to SV and work at an autonomous car company (think Lyft&#x2F;Uber ATC). $150k salary + ~$100k in RSUs&#x2F;year<p>The government route is obviously very stable and has a pension, decent benefits, etc. However, the work will trend from technical to managerial (contract management, etc) within less than 3 years of graduating with the PhD. Exciting work is traded for stability + pension.<p>The startup route is almost the polar opposite - not stable but with almost a guarantee of interesting work! Additionally, friends and family (from the midwest) are always talking about the tech bubble in SV and how autonomous car companies could be killed tomorrow by regulation.<p>If the RSUs are valued at $0, then the SV offer is a slight pay cut.<p>Many of my academic friends would kill for a $90k&#x2F;year fellowship + stable job after graduation; many of my industry friends would love a $250k compensation package.<p>Has anyone been in a similar situation? What route did you take and what information do you know now that would&#x27;ve informed the decision differently? More generally, what advice would you give?
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tlb
Don't sign up for 15 year commitment with anyone! Who knows if the DoE will be
doing work that interests you in 2035. If you don't like the work, you won't
be able to leave.

You should be able to make enough between tuition waivers, being a teaching
assistant, and summer internships to live cheaply through grad school. Then
when you're done you'll be free, with your new PhD, to pick the awesomest job
you can find.

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mchannon
What many inside the SV bubble may forget is how miserable day-to-day life can
be in SV, as compared to flyover country.

How's $3600 a month in rent grab you? $500k for a down payment on a teardown?
An added 30 minutes of commute time on a dingy BART train or averaging 6mph on
the 101? Homeless camps and stale urine smells next to multi-millionnaire's
homes and offices?

Finding, making, and keeping friends in the valley is double-difficult,
because everyone's under such pressure to work extra hours, and the area isn't
exactly renowned for its people skills.

If you're looking to settle down and raise a family, you might find the odds
are pretty good in SV, though (in terms of single people in that age range
that are family-minded and also worth marrying). At least until your kids need
daycare.

As someone who's dipped a toe in both, I'd actually recommend giving further
thought to the DOE deal. You might even be more fundable (and hirable!) after
15 years' DOE experience, moving to SV, than after 15 years' startup
experience in SV.

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autothrowaway
A big concern of mine is that a big portion of that 15 years will likely be
contract management. I'm not convinced I'll be able to jump back in the "lab"
doing real engineering work after a prolonged period of PM work. Having said
that, a 10 minute Midwest commute is very nice.

Thanks for the advice, you've given me some more things to consider.

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astrodev
Making a 15 years long commitment at 25 seems to me like a huge gamble with
limited upside (the salary) and basically unlimited downside. What if you are
unhappy at the DOE but have to stay there until you are 45?

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bkohlmann
As some of the commentators mentioned, 15 years is a long time.

When I was 18, I wanted to be a fighter pilot more than anything in the world.
The 11 year commitment to do so seemed like a no brainer.

I went to college, got commissioned and made my way through flight school. I
spent 8 of those 11 years in the cockpit doing pretty awesome things. But I
was ready to leave and try something else around year 8. My civilian peers
were trying out a whole bunch of cool work with the freedom to move at will.

Now that I'm 35, I don't regret my decision, but I realize how much time 11
years really is. I did something I loved, and reflect fondly upon, but am
thrilled to be doing something else.

A lot will change between 25 and 40. You have a very small window to get in
earlyish on an emerging tech. If it fails, the government will still be around
- and with experience in the Valley, an immense number of opportunities around
the country will be at your beck and call.

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billconan
If I were you, signing a service commitment with the Department of Energy for
~15 years after the PhD is completed is a deal breaker.

15 years! that's a big portion of life.

Also, it really depends on what will be the area of focus of the PhD program,
for which we have no information.

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psyklic
I assume your PhD would be scientific or technical? If so, doing a regular PhD
you would be paid tuition plus $25-45k/year (with research/TA/etc). With this
in mind, assuming a five-year PhD:

1\. Choosing the first option, you are essentially being paid $225-325K extra
during the PhD, in exchange for a 15-year commitment to the DOE. Certainly,
you would easily be able to make up this amount doing a regular PhD then going
into industry for 15 years (with a higher salary than government can pay).

2\. Choosing the second option, you are deciding to give up ~$1M in exchange
for a PhD. It is unlikely the PhD (versus 5 years experience) will grant you
much higher of a salary as an engineer, unless you are an extraordinary
researcher or you hope to become a research director or executive with it.

Keep in mind that a PhD is ultimately training for becoming a researcher. So,
I would recommend a PhD only if you really enjoy the field, most importantly
enjoy doing research, and are okay with a lower salary for the duration. Also
consider what ultimate job you want to have and if a PhD can better help you
attain it. After all, it seems you already have a desirable skillset.

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taylodl
15 year commitment? No thanks. I think the PhD route is better than the SV
route in the long term, but you need to find a PhD route with fewer strings
attached. You say you're in the Midwest, you shouldn't need anywhere near
$90K/yr to cover basic living expenses. If you can't make that happen then
look for the job most interesting to you - regardless of where it's located.
If you're willing to relocate then you're willing to relocate anywhere. Enjoy
it while you're still young!

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bonhardcomp
15 years is a long time. You're giving up a large amount of freedom right
there. The DoE will still be there in 12 months if SV doesn't work out. I'd do
it that way round.

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jackgolding
I agree many of my mates would kill for a $90k fellowship, 15 years is too
long to commit to anything though.

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auganov
Wow, that's a crazy commitment. What happens if you break it?

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mabynogy
Both imply working for someone. The PhD seems better.

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auautothrowaway
May I know how you got job in SV self driving cars startup. I am trying but
not getting job.

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qwertyasd25
try something cool, start your own

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midwestposdoc
Doing PhD in midwest is like living in jail.

