
Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops - vb6lives
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/04/02/us_border_patrol_search_demand_mozilla_cto/
======
geofft
Some discussion from yesterday:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19558161](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19558161)

See also Andreas Gal's blog post [https://medium.com/@andreasgal/no-one-
should-have-to-travel-...](https://medium.com/@andreasgal/no-one-should-have-
to-travel-in-fear-b2bff4c460e5) , the ACLU's press release
[https://www.aclunc.org/news/aclu-files-complaint-
department-...](https://www.aclunc.org/news/aclu-files-complaint-department-
homeland-security-over-unwarranted-interrogation-and-attempted) , and the
ACLU's formal complaint [https://www.aclunc.org/docs/ACLU-
NC_2019-03-28_Letter_re._El...](https://www.aclunc.org/docs/ACLU-
NC_2019-03-28_Letter_re._Electronic_Device_Search_SFO.pdf) .

------
mikeash
Quick reminder: US citizens have an absolute right to reenter the country.
Customs can temporarily detain you, but they cannot refuse entry. Any threat,
whether implied or stated, that they will hold you until you unlock your
device is not real. They _can_ hold your stuff indefinitely, so be prepared to
lose it if you go this route, but never unlock your device based on the idea
that it’s the only way to go free.

Non-citizens are in a totally different boat. You can be denied entry for any
reason whatsoever. Tread carefully....

~~~
musha68k
Quick reminder: Non US citizens only go to conferences outside the US. There
is no excuse we should put up with this. Canada and EU are much better
locations for this reason alone.

~~~
Marsymars
Not much better in Canada: [https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/guilty-plea-
ends-case-t...](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/guilty-plea-ends-case-
that-pitted-cellphone-privacy-rights-against-border-security-powers)

~~~
pera
And also Australia and the UK:

[https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-08/if-a-border-agent-
dem...](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-08/if-a-border-agent-demands-
access-to-your-digital-device/10350762)

[https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/25/traveler-who-refused-to-
gi...](https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/25/traveler-who-refused-to-give-device-
passwords-to-police-found-guilty-of-obstruction-in-uk-court/)

It seems to be mostly a Five Eyes thing.

~~~
jerf
It scares me the number of people who think that the US is in some uniquely
bad place for some issue, not because of "whataboutism" but because of the
blindness it can entail and skewed perceptions of all sides. No, it's not a
dystopia in the US, but a wonderland paradise everywhere else. There's plenty
of places that treat various people badly.

~~~
pimmen
Agreed. I'm European and it astonishes me how a wall at the border is so
divisive, with some even calling it un-American, and in the EU there are
essentially no legal ways for refugees to enter at all (we've made it
practically impossible to fly) and children die by the boat loads in the
Mediterranean, yet we Europeans think we are in a position to judge the US.

Astonishing is the word.

------
abstractbarista
_"...he clammed up, taking the Fifth, and citing constitutional rights against
unwarranted searches.

...border agents told him he had no constitutional nor any legal protections,
and threatened him with criminal charges should he not concede to the search.

...he was eventually allowed to leave with his belongings, the devices still
locked, and no charges were pressed."_

My goodness! I guess those protections did exit after all! :)

Guidelines:

-Goons can lie to you all they want. Never budge.

-Politely refuse, and remain cordial. Stay strong mentally.

-Make sure your devices are turned off prior to even leaving for the airport.

 _This is the sick reality we live in._

~~~
vageli
Border agents may lie about your rights? Is there no Miranda equivalent for
this type of detainment?

~~~
Dangeranger
There is not.

Customs and Border Patrol operate under a special set of circumstances within
ports of entry. You do not have the right to have an attorney present during
the interrogation, you can have your personal belongings confiscated, you can
be held without charge for up to four hours for any "reasonable" suspicion.

These same rules apply within one hundred miles of the United States border.
So if you live near the any ocean, Great Lakes, the Mexican border or Canadian
border, you live under a different set of rights than the rest of America.

~~~
altmind
> [100-mile] border zone is home to 65.3 percent of the entire U.S.
> population, and around 75 percent of the U.S. Hispanic population

~~~
fernandotakai
this ACLU article shows exactly this
[https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-
zone](https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone)

------
jillesvangurp
Traveling internationally with encrypted data you don't want to disclose to
border officials is not a good plan these days. Much safer to transfer
securely via network connection.

It's easy to single out the US but the reality is that most countries have
pretty far reaching rules these days. E.g. the UK and Australia are hardly any
safer. And forget about China, Russia, or indeed most countries with even less
democratic regimes.

The bottom line is that if you are not willing to unlock your device at any of
the security checkpoints you will pass on your journey, you should leave it at
home or just wipe it preemptively and restore over a secure connection after
you arrive. In case it does get unlocked or taken from you, consider the
device burned. It may come back to you with all sorts of malware. The people
doing this are not thinking you are a terrorist or a child pornographer: you
are being targeted and under attack by a hostile entity. Assuming otherwise
would be a mistake. Wipe it, sell it on e-bay, never use it again.

~~~
whoCaresAnymore
Transfering via network is only secure, if you believe that forward security
exists for network traffic, which is very likely untrue.

The point being: if your encrypted network traffic is captured and retained,
maybe it can still be brute forced at liesure, and deduplicated for deltas
only. Thus, volume is only a temporary issue, and everyone still gets to see
everything eventually, and full retrospective records are still enriched, so
maybe that's fine for some things, and not for others.

~~~
jillesvangurp
This is true regardless of whether you travel internationally. The converse is
true as well: traveling internationally does not make it less secure to
exchange information. Either way, we are well into tin foil hat territory here
but if you do believe this, stop using (networked) computers.

------
chvid
This assumes that he was not picked by random but instead there is some sort
of list of people to check at airports that you can be put on because of your
work within IT-security.

That would be a big story if that is the case.

I will offer a counter-narrative which is more in line with my own experience
(from other places than the US):

The people who work at border control in particular in airports are bored.

They are also overstaffed and given extreme discretion over the people they
patrol; most of whom are non-citizen and thus have basically no rights at all.

This leads to them doing work for the sake of showing they work, overreacting
to the least of resistance and maybe even some games of entertainment.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
They're likely not stupid enough to have a "list". They have a set of factors
and probably tally up some sort of score and search everyone above X. It just
so happens that anyone they wanted to put on the list will score X or above.
Doing IT security probably gets you a pretty high score just by itself. Add in
the fact that he was originally from Eastern Europe and there you are.

I will definitely agree bored cops looking for stuff to do cause a lot of
problems.

~~~
ericye16
They literally have a list [0]

[0] [https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/u-s-
officials-m...](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/u-s-officials-
made-list-reporters-lawyers-activists-question-border-n980301)

------
linsomniac
I was once randomly selected for screening at Chicago Midway, that quickly
became shockingly specific: "Do you know that professor at DePaul that teaches
Python?" "Do you mean Massimo Di Pierro?" "Yeah, I think that was his name."
"I've met him a few times..." At this point it all seems very surreal. "He was
through here a few weeks ago and had stickers on his laptop that were like
yours." Ooooh...

~~~
honkycat
Haha that is a name I have not seen in a while! I was a student of his at
DePaul. Great guy! Massimo is awesome!

------
chuckgreenman
I'm hoping that manufactures will start building a plausible deniability user
profile you can log into while leaving your actual profile encrypted,
appearing to be slack space.

This kind of thuggery seems to be getting more common.

~~~
mcv
Keep data off your devices during travel, and download it once you're safe. If
corporate, require external activation by someone from the company before the
contents of your device are restored. That way you cannot be forced to divulge
any company trade secrets, because you simply don't have access to them while
you're crossing the border.

~~~
arethuza
So what if you are asked if your device is in its normal state or whether you
deleted any data from your device before travelling?

Lying in that situation would seem like a very bad idea (I'm not a US
national) - I've had a few uncomfortable experiences over the years entering
the US and I certainly wouldn't want to do anything that would give cause to
escalate things on their side.

~~~
mcv
You can be as honest as you like. Or just say you don't take data with you
when you travel. For security reasons. If it's work related, this is trivial
to justify: company policy, trade secrets shouldn't fall in the wrong hands,
etc. And even if private, phone theft and identity theft are serious concerns.

~~~
arethuza
OK and engaging full blown paranoia mode: What if they ask me to log into
gmail and Office 365 (I use both) so they can see what I was trying to hide?

~~~
reitanqild
> OK and engaging full blown paranoia mode: What if they ask me to log into
> gmail and Office 365 ...

Doesn't sound _that_ paranoid to me: wasn't there talk already a year ago
about trying to force people to log into social media accounts when crossing
the border?

------
CalChris
> Gal said the agents did take away his Global Entry pass, which allows
> express entry through customs, as punishment for not complying with their
> demands.

I wonder about the legality of the CBP punitively confiscating his Global
Entry pass.

~~~
rchaud
In addition to that, I also wonder what punishments they can mete out to
people who happen to not be high-level Apple employees with a network of
powerful people who can advocate on his behalf.

~~~
cmurf
Or more likely, the success rate of threats. I suspect it's high.

------
alex_hitchins
The message it sends to me is, never visit America. I appreciate horrible
things likely happen in my own country, but this is just disgusting.

~~~
a012
Or simply just leave yours at home, buy a burner phone on arrival.

~~~
mikepurvis
There's a cost to doing that. I guess it depends just how badly you need to
travel to the US, but as a Canadian citizen, I see no reason to endanger
myself or my family by traveling there at the current time. Walt Disney World
will still be there in 2021.

~~~
philsnow
> Walt Disney World will still be there in 2021

Border policy won't change by 2021 either, at least not for the better.

~~~
zanny
Hey we could still see a sea change at the US federal level of either
progressive or adherent libertarian representatives that curtail the fear /
police / surveillance state in the 2020 election.

Its about as likely as bitcoin taking over the world economy, but hey we all
have to cling to false hope sometimes.

------
tomohawk
The process is the punishment, and they know it. The current state is as
exactly predicted by those of us who were against creating the TSA in the
first place.

~~~
ngngngng
Seriously. When traveling with my pregnant wife we realized that we weren't
sure the scanners were safe for pregnant women, so we asked for a pat down.

She was in tears by the end of the experience.

We have both received many pat downs in Chinese airports that didn't bother
either of us.

------
southphillyman
I'll never forget how I was strip searched coming back from Costa Rica. They
went through every photo in my digital camera, ripped open all of my packaged
food items, made little snide remarks to me, and ultimately made me miss my
connecting flight. The whole time I was fully cooperative.

Only explanation I have for the level of examination is maybe because I was a
young minority returning from a random latin american country solo(?)

------
toss1
Even as a US citizen, at this point, it is my policy to never leave the
country with a device & set of data that I wouldn't mind losing at customs.

Even though I have an essentially absolute right to re-enter the country, my
hardware apparently does not, at least without potentially being detained for
an extended period.

So, burner phone and pre-wiped laptop if I need it, all powered down. If I
need any files while away, store them in a secure Box or other account before
crossing borders.

At this point, it seems like just a necessary evil extra expense in time and
money, and a good idea for other countries, although it sadly seems that the
US is now the fast follower of Russia, China, etc, in terms of repressive
practices.

------
mgkimsal
If you're being investigated, and they have emails sent to a domain you own
(for example), then search your device, but you've given them a burner device
with no reference to that email account, would that be considered 'hiding'
evidence?

------
rocqua
It was my understanding that 5-th amendment protections against unreasonable
searches are suspended at the border. That would certainly include customs at
the airport.

So, in a strict legal sense, demanding to unlock a device does not violate the
5th.

~~~
roywiggins
the ACLU complaint is based on the 4th amendment right against unreasonable
search. He demanded to speak to his lawyer and was thereafter allowed to
leave, so his 5th amendment rights were not actually abridged. That's how the
5th amendment works, and it worked at the border.

[https://www.aclunc.org/docs/ACLU-
NC_2019-03-28_Letter_re._El...](https://www.aclunc.org/docs/ACLU-
NC_2019-03-28_Letter_re._Electronic_Device_Search_SFO.pdf)

> CBP must ensure that its officers comply with the U.S. Constitution. Even at
> the border, the search of an electronic device is governed by the Fourth
> Amendment. To satisfy Ninth Circuit and Supreme Court law concerning
> electronic searches, any such search should be based on a warrant and be
> limited in scope to information relevant to the agency’s legitimate purpose
> in conducting the search. The attempted unconstitutional search of Dr. Gal’s
> devices illustrates that CBP’s policies do not in fact include the
> requirements necessary to safeguard the constitutional rights of people at
> the border

~~~
tptacek
Right, he meant to say that 4th amendment protections are suspended at the
border, and, while you might quibble with that wording, it's a valid point:
border searches usually don't require a warrant, owing to the border search
exception, which has precedent going all the way back to the founders.

------
AnaniasAnanas
Something relevant from the creator of cock.li [https://vc.gg/blog/so-its-
been-a-while.html](https://vc.gg/blog/so-its-been-a-while.html)

------
cmrdporcupine
Abuse of power, indeed -- but he should have let Apple's lawyers sort out the
proprietary device access issue after the fact. Pretty sure as Google
employees the advice to us is to cooperate fully and then make sure lawyers
know about it later. It's not worth compromising your own security and freedom
on behalf of a corporation.

~~~
microtherion
FWIW, that's exactly what Apple tells us:

> If a Customs agent asks you to power up the laptop and access content with
> your passwords, please comply with this request. [...] Travelers should
> notify their supervisor and corporate security at their first opportunity.

------
nimbius
speaking as an american, even on domestic flights it doesnt get any easier. I
was once detained 45 minutes by the TSA for a laptop with a missing DVD drive.
i bought it without the drive from a pawn shop to learn Arch linux on, and
kept it because it was fast. I refused to unlock it.

since the RealID act was passed, and im too lazy to wait at the DMV for a
compliant license, I just take my passport with me for ID on domestic flights.
This once cost me 30 minutes with the TSA, again, explaining why I was using a
passport for a domestic flight. I refused search, refused to cooperate, and
was let on the plane.

security theater was fun 15 years ago but this shit show has gotten a little
old. the oxycodone epidemic kills more americans than terrorism. Hell,
lightning kills more americans than Al Qaeda.

shoes and belts off, shuffling through the checkpoints like juden at dachau,
is degrading.

------
earenndil
Original source: [https://medium.com/@andreasgal/no-one-should-have-to-
travel-...](https://medium.com/@andreasgal/no-one-should-have-to-travel-in-
fear-b2bff4c460e5)

------
blunte
If another country were plan well, they could create opportunities that would
attract and welcome the smart people from the US and elsewhere. If they made
it economically attractive to tech businesses, they could set themselves up as
a dominant leader of the world within 20-30 years, regardless of their current
size.

I don't know enough about Estonia to suggest they would try this, but they do
seem progressive in this regard. I would vote for Netherlands, Belgium, or
Portugal just because I like being in those countries.

~~~
adventured
That's not actually realistic, for the exact same reason why China is such a
juggernaut in tech while having almost no human rights. If it worked the way
you're implying, China wouldn't be able to do what it's doing in tech at all.

Things like this don't even remotely threaten US dominance in tech, because:
1) the US allows _a lot_ of legal immigration; 2) US tech wages are far beyond
anything you can make in those other locations 3) the US as a singular
integrated market that is the world's largest economy, makes it impossible to
compete with unless you're China, due to inherent scaling benefits 4) nowhere
other than China has the capital markets to support competing with the US
start-up scene properly and 5) the actual context - Andreas was let go after
three hours, with his devices - isn't close to being bad enough to matter, in
fact it barely registers these days (increasingly the era of domestic
surveillence and censorship all around the world, from the UK to South Korea)
as a very mild inconvenience on human rights, and doesn't impact ~99.999% of
travelers to the US.

US dominance in tech - outside of China - has only increased since 9/11, not
decreased. That's despite non-stop issues of this sort, the Patriot Act, NSA
spying, and so on. A rogue border search, or a hundred of them, won't dent
that. That's the reality.

------
ngngngng
This is why i'm so excited for the Librem smartphone. If i'm in complete
control of the operating system, I can put measures in place to combat this.
For example, a function that requires a password whenever the phone leaves a
certain location (so if the police confiscate my phone, i'm sure it's locked).

Or maybe a function that you can activate that makes the phone appear bricked
until the power button is pushed 20 times in a row. You could activate this
before going through customs.

~~~
macintux
Lying to law enforcement is illegal, so subterfuges like that are perilous in
their own way.

~~~
ngngngng
Would it perilous if you just plead the fifth? If you knowingly state that you
don't know how to turn the phone back on, then it's a lie, but if you just
plead the 5th?

Also, why is it legal for them to lie to me when I can't lie to them?

~~~
TheRealPomax
It's not that it's legal, is that you have no way to hold them to account when
they do.

~~~
megous
"It's not that it's legal" Unless this somehow escapes qualified immunity,
it's legal for them to lie.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_immunity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_immunity)

Also you may have no way to gather your own evidence anyway.

------
tango12
Lets say he was flagged because of being vocal against the current
administration; how do you think the incentive structure works for something
like this to be executed? The president says I don’t like my critics. The
person heading the CBP thinks they can get promoted if they show results on
harassing critics. So they push that down as a goal...and somewhere a few
weeks later agents on the ground actually take this up as a task to execute.
Is that a realistic understanding?

------
ProAm
It would be nice if phone and laptops had removable batteries, so we literally
could not turn them on until we got to our destination and buy a new battery.

~~~
maximilianroos
I would worry the resources of the US government may extend to spare batteries

~~~
ProAm
Forcing you to unlock a laptop or phone that doesnt have a battery would fall
under a different legal precedent.

~~~
maximilianroos
A forensic search would require reasonable suspicion. I'm not aware of any
legal weight attached to batteries - what's the legal precedent you're
thinking of?

~~~
ProAm
Having a third party install anything new (i.e. battery) to the device that
wasn't present when it was confiscated would put into question the integrity
of anything found on the device.

~~~
greatpatton
Maybe just plug it...

------
jondubois
If most people told their boss exactly what they thought, they'd get a much
worse punishment than a few measly hours of interrogation... At least this guy
can go cry in his Mercedes Benz afterwards. It may not be fair but it's not a
problem that deserves news coverage IMO. I bet that much worse things have
happened today which deserve more attention.

~~~
rak00n
You need to change your job. There are better places to work where your boss
won't "punish" you.

Also your second argument could be applied to absolutely anything. You can
always find something that deserves more attention.

------
Friedduck
Knowing what we know it astonishes me that people take devices with anything
of value over an international border.

Save everything to the cloud, or use a burner device like a It’s not worth the
hassle.

(And yes, I’ve read that this antagonizes border security to a certain extent,
if they believe you’ve done just this.)

------
pvtmert
In my country just refusing to unlock your phone instantly labels you as a
terrorist (coup organiser)

We did got past all of those (!)

Ps. I live in Turkey

~~~
stanski
Thanks for the reminder that it can always be worse :)

------
jeffalyanak
How do multi-account devices fare under these rules? What if I only have
access to account A and not account B?

What if unlocking the device requires a security key that I do not have with
me?

My intuition is that they'd still treat that as though I was impeding their
search, but I wonder legally if it changes anything.

------
ddlatham
This is a good time to review the guide provided by the EFF:

[https://www.eff.org/wp/digital-privacy-us-
border-2017](https://www.eff.org/wp/digital-privacy-us-border-2017)

------
cylinder
They are also cancelling ESTA for security professionals without warning and
the resulting visa application gets stuck in administrative processing for
months due to a security flag.

------
sschueller
I think this would be a good opportunity for Apple's legal department to do
something. Maybe help the ACLU with it's case against the Department of
Homeland security.

------
ccnafr
Dupe:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19558161](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19558161)

------
bravura
Perhaps this is very cynical, but shouldn't they also be able to use airport
security camera footage to figure out passwords?

------
ink404
Honestly this is one of the best use cases for multiple profiles on a device.

They want entrance, just grant it to a sandboxed environment.

------
tompccs
Chilling, and Kafka-esque. As it happens I'm not convinced that the reason for
his being detained had anything to do with him being a Trump critic and
Democrat donor, contrary to his claims in the article, but more likely it's
some lifeless bureaucrat/computer program or both putting a red flag on his
file for some esoteric reason, very possibly connected to his work and
writings on online privacy.

The lack of transparency on the reasons for detention are the real problem.
Josef K never found out the charge made against him either.

(edit -spelling)

------
ngngngng
Hmmm it's almost as if the land of the free has some sort of social credit
score program?

------
jliptzin
I prefer increased crime over dealing with shit like this.

------
gist
I love the creative writing and entitlement that comes through when someone
has been wronged.

> Ex-Mozilla CTO

Has no more or less rights than anyone else.

> Techie says he was grilled for three hours

Clearly click bait 'grilled for three hours'. Not questioned but 'grilled'.

> "There I quickly found myself surrounded by three armed agents wearing
> bullet proof vests."

So what? Of course they were armed. Of course they had bullet proof vests. The
sole purpose of using words like that (by a writer) is to get the goat of
anyone reading and have them all up in arms about INJUSTICE of one type or
another.

> They started to question me aggressively regarding my trip, my current
> employment, and my past work for Mozilla

What do you think? They should act like the concierge at the Four Seasons? Of
course they are going to be aggressive. That's law enforcement attitude and
there is a purpose for doing so.

> Given the devices were emblazoned with big red stickers reading "PROPERTY OF
> APPLE. PROPRIETARY," and he had signed confidentially agreements with
> Cupertino, Gal said he asked for permission to call his bosses and/or a
> lawyer to see if he would get into trouble by handing over access.

This is total BS. You don't need your bosses agreement when a request is made
from Law Enforcement at least not because you signed some NDA etc. Fine that
he attempted and asked. But the reason is weak.

> and threatened him with criminal charges should he not concede to the search

Cops are allowed to lie. Not sure what the story is with border agents but
possibly the same. That is how they often get info.

> "My past work on encryption and online privacy is well documented, and so is
> my disapproval of the Trump administration and my history of significant
> campaign contributions to Democratic candidates,"

He is living in fantasy land here if he thinks there is some list of people
that are being targeted for that reason. Not that it could happen but highly
unlikely. It would take an entire Nixonian operation to pull that off. I think
more likely since he came from a former communist state his thinking goes to
this type of paranoia.

> Now, Gal has enlisted the help of the ACLU to probe into the brouhaha, and
> determine whether his civil rights were violated.

Yes everyone is looking either for more internet fame or a payout. Not sure
why he needs to save the world and belabor the issue. Just move on and don't
waste time.

> "Furthermore, CBP’s policies lack protections for First Amendment rights by
> allowing interrogation and device searches that may be based on a traveler’s
> political beliefs, activism, nation of origin, or identity."

Sounds like typical ACLU behavior for more publicity to aid fund raising
(story on 60 Minutes):

[https://www.cbs.com/shows/60_minutes/video/cm_lFZDERHcELSPw2...](https://www.cbs.com/shows/60_minutes/video/cm_lFZDERHcELSPw2fEioYAgqbNOHU3t/the-
chairman-aclu-genetic-revolution/)

ACLU got into high gear over Trump and sends out letters literally trying to
raise money (I received one) clearly mentioning in so many words to take Trump
down. Not the same organization that it used to be. On the 60 Minutes story
iirc a former head of ACLU was interviewed and bothered by the current
behavior.

~~~
pnw_hazor
He would have been arrested in many other countries, including Canada, NZ,
Australia, UK, not to mention the slew of non-democratic countries.

I don't think most of those countries need a reasonable suspicion to demand
password nor to do track how often they do it.
[https://www.newstatesman.com/law/2013/08/welcome-britain-
bor...](https://www.newstatesman.com/law/2013/08/welcome-britain-border-
control-officers-can-seize-personal-data-without-reasonable-suspi)

------
craigsmansion
So really,

"Apple employee gets mildly harassed at airport because of proprietary
confidentially agreements" with

"A terrible, terrible tragedy, non US-citizen travellers agree" as a byline.

The main thing of interest here would be that maybe Mozilla should employ
better hiring practices.

~~~
lostmyoldone
Care to explain what you are trying to say?

As you phrased your comment, it is entirely opaque to me what you intend to
convey.

~~~
craigsmansion
There seems to be a lot of concern and disdain in this thread about the
treatment of a US citizen. The truth however is that non US citizens in the
same circumstances can be, for all intents and purposes, "disappeared". If
something concerns you as a US citizen, it should be _that_ , not comical
mishaps in the security circus happening to semi-famous people.

Also, Gal didn't make any sort of moral stand, he was simply defending his
proprietary employer's interest. It's not the most sympathetic story.

So, in the end, the article only left me wondering how people who climb the
ladder inside Mozilla, ostensibly an open and free environment, can easily end
up at Apple, which revels in closed and proprietary environments. Maybe
Mozilla should introduce some of the values they claim to hold into the hiring
and promotion process.

Sorry for any confusion.

