
The Open Goldberg Variations - exolymph
https://opengoldbergvariations.org/
======
robertDouglass
Hi! I produced this recording and project, and it's so nice to see it on the
front page of Hacker News this morning.

Let's talk about Kimiko Ishizaka, the pianist. She always insists on standing
in the background, letting her projects be about Bach, and public domain,
while she quietly delivers the most stunning performances of these works that
one can imagine.

Kimiko is German-Japanese. She grew up performing in a trio with her brothers
who are also both notable classical musicians in Germany. In addition to the
Goldberg Variations, she has recorded the Well-Tempered Clavier I
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPHIZw7HZq4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPHIZw7HZq4)),
and The Art of the Fugue
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIrNDWqANCs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIrNDWqANCs))
and released them into the public domain as well.

Then, in 2019, she did something completely new and released an album of her
own, jazz-inspired compositions for solo piano called New Me!
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph35hLwcckY&list=PLeWVBqJrTS...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph35hLwcckY&list=PLeWVBqJrTS7fVZoVreWC0LN3G2EePa2op)).
She continues studying Jazz and is composing a cycle of songs (pop-jazz), and
a series of ragtime pieces for piano.

Kimiko is very athletic, and has placed in the top-3 at the German nationals
in both powelifting and olympic weightlifting. She has a room in her house
which functions both as a piano practice room, and a gym. It is painted pink
and decorated with Hello Kitty, because, well, she's a half-Japanese girl who
loves Hello Kitty =)

The most amazing thing of all just happened to Kimiko, however. She gave birth
to a beautiful son
([https://twitter.com/KimikoIshizaka/status/127507285375949619...](https://twitter.com/KimikoIshizaka/status/1275072853759496194)),
just 5 days ago.

~~~
jacquesm
Thank you for this project and for putting the spotlight on this pianist. I
listened to 'the new me' and it is very interesting how she did that and yet
somehow there is a bit of Bach shining through here and there.

~~~
lordleft
Nina Simone is another musician who permeated her music with very clear
influences from Bach:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WHHW8PrF6Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WHHW8PrF6Q)

~~~
jacquesm
Yes. Her life story is really heartbreaking, wanting to become a classical
pianist but being told that being black and playing classical music at the
same time just wouldn't do. I'm of two minds on this - as I've written before
on HN -, sad as it is that she did not follow her chosen path in the end it
gave us her own material which to me is just as dear of not dearer. My all
time favorite song is 'wild is the wind'.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6Gx0wYim8Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6Gx0wYim8Y)

Amazing song, guaranteed to give me gooseflesh no matter how many times I've
heard it.

------
ssttoo
Side track: can we talk about MuseScore (mentioned in the article as the
collaborator of the effort)? MuseScore is a notation software, an open-source
alternative to Sibelius and Finale (and now Dorico). Teachers (at the two
colleges I take classes at) still dismiss it as not-worthy of comparison
although in my music and composition learning I have not found anything I
cannot accomplish with it.

Maybe I’ll eventually find out its limitations but to suggest to new students
to buy a “professional” notation software for $600 (or $30/month) as opposed
to $0 is questionable in my opinion.

~~~
dharma1
I started working on MuseScore recently (last week actually) with my buddy
Tantacrul who I used to work with on Ubuntu a few years ago.

MS4 is going to be a major overhaul, and MuseScore.com is going to be
massively improved also. Would it be possible to chat with you about what the
reservations your teachers have about it, and how we can improve those areas?

~~~
jacquesm
Forcing people into paying for the distribution of their own midi files/scores
would be one major issue. Of course musescore.org claims that musescore.com is
a totally separate entity but they go out of their way to confuse visitors of
the .org site. The interaction between .org stewards and the general public is
totally bizarre. It's the same trick that gracenote pulled on cddb many years
go. It was ugly then, it's ugly now and the copyright excuse just doesn't cut
it, all they'd need to do is properly implement the DMCA for this problem to
go away.

~~~
dharma1
Hey Jacques, this was one of the main things I wanted to clarify too, after
looking at user feedback over the last week. Would you be up for a quick chat
to understand better how to remedy this?

~~~
jacquesm
Sure, email in profile.

------
artistsvoid
To anyone wondering: public domain? Bach has been dead for how long? Of course
there are already some available (recordings, and sheet music of course), a
great database is:
[https://imslp.org/wiki/Main_Page](https://imslp.org/wiki/Main_Page)

I do not want to denounce the efforts made though. Anything which makes these
works more accessible is welcome. The Goldberg Variations are beautiful. Most
famous recordings probably the two by Glenn Gould. There is even an interview
in which they explore the differences between the two, and Gould opens up
about some decisions he has made and why.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaLoegXPpyk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaLoegXPpyk)

It's worth listening to, also to explore the Goldberg Variations a little bit
in general. It also gives you a sense of Gould's "quirky wit". It's likely it
was completely scripted by Gould in advance. There are of course many
recordings of the Goldberg Variations, partial list here:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldberg_Variations_discograph...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldberg_Variations_discography)

Both of Gould's interpretations aren't in any way "standard interpretations".
Fun fact: I was so used to listening to Gould's Bach interpretations back
then, I immediately emulated his style when playing Bach, which my piano
teacher found really annoying.

~~~
jacquesm
The easiest way to describe the differences between the 'young' and the 'old'
Goldberg variations as played by Glenn Gould are to look at the runtimes. As I
get older I find myself liking the ones played by the older Gould better.

~~~
matt_morgan
If you haven't heard it, Hilary Hahn's Chaconne is also slow compared to a lot
of other interpretations, and for me has a lot of the same impact (makes me
cry, basically, but stimulates a huge range of emotions in a very short time)
as the later Gould recording.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqA3qQMKueA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqA3qQMKueA)

~~~
robertDouglass
Great recording!

------
scop
[https://music.apple.com/us/album/bach-goldberg-variations-
bw...](https://music.apple.com/us/album/bach-goldberg-variations-
bwv-988/1327895959)

I tend to be very disappointed by the majority of piano transcriptions of
Bach’s keyboard works, which is understandable since the piano and harpsichord
are so very different. Outside of Gould’s, who played much like a harpsichord,
the above album is the most moving and fascinating piano transcription of
Goldberg that I have heard. There are several parts of interpretation that
would normally make me yell “heresy”, but Ji-Yong’s interpretations really
bring the piece out in a way fully fit for piano. Check it out!

~~~
atombender
My main quibble with modern performances like this (my personal favourite is
Murray Perahia's) is the sometimes ridiculous level of rubato injected into
performances. It's a modern (well, 19th century) invention, and not reflective
of how music was performed in Bach's day, as far as I know. To modern ears, a
rubato-less performance would sound much more rigid, less expressive, and less
emotive (particularly with Bach, whose music is often described as
"mathematical"), especially when played on the original harpsichord. Compare
Gould's with, say, the recordings of Karl Richter. You find the same thing in
all modern interpretations of older music, filtered through modern lenses.
Bach isn't Chopin, though it can of course also sound beautiful when played
that way.

~~~
jacquesm
I think it is a more than fair criticism of many modern pianists of Baroque
era music, but let's cut them some slack too: it is entirely valid to re-
interpret existing music through a more modern lens (hence the 1000's of
covers) and Bach himself saw absolutely no problem with re-interpreting other
composers works.

Music is both finished product _and_ raw material, a score is much more raw
material than finished product. Finally, the original is still available,
nothing got lost.

------
threatofrain
Glenn Gould's interpretation might be the most famous, and is worth a listen.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwas_7H5KUs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwas_7H5KUs)
(1955)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEkXet4WX_c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEkXet4WX_c)
(1981)

~~~
chewxy
On days you would like to hear humming along and someone else thoroughly
enjoying the music, I agree with Glen Gould

------
ohthehugemanate
Some historical context might help: when this recording was released, the
copyright lobby was still issuing takedown requests and blocking views on
YouTube videos and websites. So in some jurisdictions this recording was the
only one easily available to use.

Also, the open source and digital first nature of the transcription - the
first high quality transcription in musicXML - meant that this project enabled
lots of "downstream" projects, such as the first braille edition of the
Goldberg variations.

Just because a piece is public domain doesn't mean it is accessible!

~~~
danielharan
The Braille example really establishes the importance of that context for me.
Thank you!

------
Yen
I don't have a great deal of experience with classical music.

That said, I have this same pianist's album of Well-Tempered Clavier, and I
think it's quite nice. ([https://music.kimiko-piano.com/track/prelude-no-1-in-
c-major...](https://music.kimiko-piano.com/track/prelude-no-1-in-c-major-
bwv-846), for example)

------
User23
If I had a time machine watching a live JS Bach recital would be near the top
of my list of things to do. It’s wonderful to see a talented musician make
this work more accessible.

~~~
scop
JS Bach is _without a doubt_ the man I would most want to meet, interview,
view perform, etc. It is hard to put into words, but his music is just
inexhaustibly deep, challenging, joyful, profound, etc. in any given week I
will spend some time listening to some modern band, maybe dabble in Beethoven
symphony or two for a few hours, get pulled into a Stevie Wonder album, but I
always, without fail, return to Bach. He is literally the “sun” in my little
galaxy of music; all rotates around him and no matter where I am in a given
day, I may just cut what I’m listening to short and put on some Bach.

I struggle to think of anything that engages my analytical brain and artful
soul so fully and simultaneously. How the hell did he do it?!

~~~
yomly
I struggle to listen to Bach for an extended period of time. I think I don't
"get" him. Tbh it's probably that, because actually playing his music on the
piano is always a joy so it's probably skill to listen + analyse which is
lacking.

These days I am much more Schubert and Beethoven, but I feel a certain guilt
for not being able to appreciate Bach more. Both Mozart and Chopin worshipped
him amongst others (iirc both were known to copy out das wohltemperiete
klavier by hand as an exercise of love)

Any tips on grokking Bach? Feel like I have to concentrate super hard - to the
point I either go a bit numb or lose focus

EDIT worth mentioning I'm not really a casual listener. More like a failing
amateur musician with no talent. (Probably more so than Salieri :p)

~~~
scop
It definitely took my some time before I "got" Bach, but once I did I've never
been the same.

Here are some recommendations:

1\. Listen to works for solo instruments; this allows you to focus in on
what's going on

2\. Watch videos for solo instruments; this allows you to really take in what
the musician is doing to perform this work

3\. When listening to a piece, say to yourself "I am going to focus on X" and
try to hear that part is doing throughout the piece in relation to the other
parts. E.g. "I'm going to listen to the bass voices in a solo work" or "I'm
going to listen to the oboes".

4\. I often find myself being very physical when I listen to Bach...e.g.
clapping or slamming my hands on various cues.

5\. LISTEN TO THE SAME PIECE OF MUSIC A LOT...either same performance or
different ones. You are given new revelations as you get to know a piece more,
certain harmonies, certain voices, etc that you never noticed before.

Do you always have to listen with such focus? No, as it seems your brain then
becomes able to enjoy pieces more casually as it is trained to hear these
things.

Here is a fun piece to "train" yourself to enjoy Bach:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3lH_Tevw5o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3lH_Tevw5o)

------
machrider
If you like this sort of thing, you should also check out the Netherlands Bach
Society [1] on Youtube. They've been producing incredible renditions of Bach
works and sharing them freely for a while.

[1]:
[https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2kF6qdHRTM_hDYfEmzkS9w](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2kF6qdHRTM_hDYfEmzkS9w)

------
dhosek
It'd be nice to have a version recorded on harpsichord instead of piano.

~~~
Accacin
Check out Jean Rondeau’s version recorded on the harpsichord. It’s honestly
beautiful and the Goldberg Variations is one of my favourite pieces of music.
It’s on YouTube :)

------
a3_nm
This is a super cool project, but downloading the tracks require giving an
email address and subscribing to a newsletter. Fortunately, as the work is
public domain, we can all re-host it as we want. :) In case that's helpful,
here's a direct download link to the FLAC version (1.3 GB) downloaded from
Bandcamp: [http://dl.free.fr/lZnLnrdJ9](http://dl.free.fr/lZnLnrdJ9)

(The link is re-hosted on a free service by a French ISP. The link will expire
after 30 days without any download.)

~~~
robertDouglass
All true and good points. The mailing list in question is controlled
exclusively by myself and Kimiko Ishizaka and is only used to announce new
projects by Kimiko.

------
anacleto
> [..] to create a public domain recording and score of J.S. Bach's
> masterpiece

Very few realizes it but before Gould the Goldberg Variations were very little
known even to professional pianists.

Given how old the GB variations are compared to when they found success, it's
like Argonautica by Apollonius of Rhodes winning a best seller prize in 2020.

------
jwr
Ishizaka-san's performance is excellent, I highly recommend this recording.
Yes, most people will tell you about how the Gould recordings are "the best" —
but before you agree, listen to this. In my opinion, the Gould recordings are
very interesting, but I really prefer this performance.

------
kkylin
As much as I love Gould's recordings, this one made me hear something new.
Thank you!

------
achr2
It's really beautiful, and such a wonderful project. I must say though that I
always have a hard time not hearing the differences (mostly in timing) to the
Gould recordings (55 being my go-to). Thank you for sharing!

------
jancsika
Does anyone know any piano performances of 1600s-style improvisations on top
of the Goldberg bassline?

It's strange because I hear Church organists who improvise all the time--
everything from hymn chord substitutions to fugal treatments of a tune in
Bach's style. But I rarely have heard pianists doing that kind of thing.

------
chewxy
Why isn't the Goldberg Variations already open/public domain? Bach has been
dead for a very very very long time.

~~~
Barrin92
This is a public domain version of the recording. The sheet music itself is
and has been in the public domain for a long time.

~~~
Tokkemon
To be clear, the _composition_ has been in the public domain. Publishers can
copyright editions of a public domain score until the cows come home.

------
bjourne
Since the score is available, couldn't a modern synthesizer produce a pretty
good version of the composition?

~~~
jacquesm
It would be fairly dead, even on a real piano. If you recorded a real (good)
pianist playing the same piece using a piano with a sensor bar the result
could be played back and would actually be quite nice to listen to. But to go
straight from score -> midi -> audio will not give an interpretation that will
be very interesting.

If you want I can record a piece that you pick on the midi player piano that I
just completed so that you can see firsthand what the effect would be. Let me
know.

~~~
robertDouglass
The Open Goldberg Variations were recorded on a piano that has a self-playing
function. When nearby construction interrupted the recording process with
outside noise, we had the piano repeat the takes so that we would still have
them, and here's a video of that happening:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHipuHxYfjU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHipuHxYfjU)

~~~
jacquesm
Wow, that's one very nice tool. Here is my variation on that theme, output
only: [https://jacquesmattheij.com/midi-fied-baby-grand-
piano/](https://jacquesmattheij.com/midi-fied-baby-grand-piano/) The input
side is 'work in progress'. Not quite a Bosendorfer, but then again that would
be totally wasted on me anyway.

Do you allow those midi files to be downloaded as well? That would be a
priceless resource.

~~~
robertDouglass
I have the .boe files somewhere. They're a proprietary version of MIDI that
Boesendorfer developed. If you want them, I can find them and send them.
robert@opengoldbergvariations.org

~~~
jacquesm
Oh super cool, yes, very much, I will mail you.

------
dwighttk
(2012)

