
Apology Critics Who Want to Teach You How to Say You’re Sorry (2017) - Tomte
http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2017/06/these-apology-critics-want-to-teach-you-how-to-say-sorry.html
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mjw_byrne
I think a big problem with "apologies" nowadays is that they are often not
apologies at all, but exercises in ritual humiliation.

True apologies (e.g. what passes between people who care about each other when
one of them transgresses in some way) are conversations in which someone
expresses concern for the injured party and makes it clear that they're
unhappy about what they've done. They aren't structured or formulaic and might
not even contain the word "sorry".

The kind of "apology" that parents force uncomprehending children into ("Say
you're sorry!") is a totally different thing. We all remember going through
it. It has nothing to do with genuinely understanding your duty and
responsibility towards others, it's just a Pavlovian training device. Child
misbehaves, parent humiliates child, child learns not to misbehave.

The social media public "apology" is even further removed from the real thing
because it usually relates not to personal relationships and authentic
emotional responses, but to making insincere sacrifices to the political
correctness gods in order to limit damage to career/reputation/revenue/share
price. There's no point critiquing them, except perhaps to evaluate them as
some kind of dubious art form.

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jonnydubowsky
One of my favorite courses as an undergrad at Syracuse University, was
Laurence Thomas' Moral Philosophy course. I vividly remember a fellow student
who said some really racist things, and then apologizing, and being surprised
when after his apology, Thomas still let the student know that he had work to
do, if his intention was to regain the respect of his fellow students and
peers. Making an apology is the start of that work, but it is not instant
gratification. Some of Thomas' works are quite relavent Living Morally
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/0877227780/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_uU.P...](https://www.amazon.com/dp/0877227780/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_uU.PBbMQZW7KF)
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurence_Thomas](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurence_Thomas)

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darkerside
I understand the frustration with egregious non-apologies. Many of those cases
are not accidents; they are passive aggressive double downs.

But if an apology has even a shred of sincerity in it, I don't believe snarky
critique is at all appropriate in any way. Saying "You apologized wrong" to
someone who is trying to take positive steps is counterproductive, mean-
spirited, and extremely poor etiquette.

~~~
Ws32ok
I'm not sure an apology for murdering my family would be heard without a lot
of anger and resentment. Other concepts such as revenge, retribution and other
sentiments would likely also come to into play regardless of sincerity.

You make a good point about the snarky critique though. Having looked through
a few of the dead comments on this post, a lot of people are very rigid about
sensitivity training. There are a lot of parallels with SJW causes in how this
is being approached.

(I am not equating those parallels with the validity of sensitivity training,
only the rabid nature of the defence against criticism thereof I have seen).

~~~
darkerside
Yeah, and the proper response to that killer is not, "you apologized
incorrectly". It's just completely irrelevant. The later half of my post
assumed you are ready to forgive.

~~~
Ws32ok
The Amish have industrial strength belief in the power of forgiveness. The
mind boggles at the power of their belief. [https://www.theguardian.com/us-
news/2016/oct/02/amish-shooti...](https://www.theguardian.com/us-
news/2016/oct/02/amish-shooting-10-year-anniversary-pennsylvania-the-
happening)

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ourmandave
It's hard to know what to say when you apologize. So I've learned how to say
these words in a heartfelt tone (even while hanging upside-down out a window).

 _I 'm really really sorry. I apologize unreservedly.

I offer a complete and utter retraction.

The imputaion was totally without basis in fact and was in no way fair comment
and was motivated purely by malice.

And I deeply regret any distress that my comments may have caused you or your
family and I hereby undertake not to repeat any such slander at anytime in the
future._

~~~
ternaryoperator
I was impressed by Robert Byrd's deep apology for having been once a member of
the KKK:

"I know now I was wrong. Intolerance had no place in America. I apologized a
thousand times ... and I don't mind apologizing over and over again. I can't
erase what happened."

Very rare for any politician to apologize so completely and offer to apologize
again if necessary.

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motohagiography
A real apology is an expression of regret and an appeal to mercy. It is not
transactional or representative, it's an acknowledgement of a personal,
transgression, and demonstrates a new understanding.

A lot of people aren't worth apologizing to, as the offense they took can
often be attributed to a lack of charitable sentiment on their part.

An apology must be given freely, with no expectation, but also don't waste
them on people without a track record of magnanimity. I've found people
forgive honesty and honest mistakes. If you make a real mistake, people
forgive you when you prevail over it, but bending a knee for posterity or to
acknowledge authority is worse than not owning it because it rewards
sanctimony and cant from bad people.

An apology is for accepting consequences you are prepared to accept, not for
avoiding them or mollifying others. I don't agree with the professors
approach.

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adiusmus
Interesting points in that article.

Having had a Christmas present rejected by a 10 year old I’m well aware of
fake apologies. The kid, who had expressed interest in basketball multiple
times, asked me a pointed "why did you give me a basketball?" Accusatory tone
as if I had gifted him a turd. When suggested by the relevant horrified parent
to apologise he laughed. Then later when forced to apologise he did so
robotically. I asked him why he was apologising. "Because I had to". When I
asked him if he understood why, he said no. Being the offended party I
suggested he think about the why before he considered apologising. He
disappeared for awhile then came back with a smirk on his face and apologised
again. I asked him why he was apologising again when he didn't mean it. Again
"because he was told to."

Delivery and intent actually matters.

Maybe this year a certain someone will get some coal.

~~~
codingdave
You gave a gift they didn't like. They were rude about it. And then instead of
accepting the poor apology of a child, and letting the parents deal with it,
you critiqued the child's performance, which also was a refusal to accept the
parent's attempt to take a step in the right direction. And you did it twice.
And you hold enough of a grudge over it to share this story with the world.

I'm not sure that the child's apology was the only one missing from this
story.

~~~
adiusmus
Interesting criticism. Perhaps more context would help.

They were rude about it. And it was appropriate to criticise the child and the
parent. The parent was criticised as that child also did it to others up to
that point. Other behaviours like bullying were also creeping in. They hadn't
properly addressed it until I actually refused the fake apology. The child had
behavioural issues that have now been positively improved through their
deliberate effort in subsequent months. Evidence of this is has been seen by
teachers at his school apparently. Definitely in his behaviour I've seen as
well as his sister.

And he's on the school basketball team now. What a terrible present! Children
dislike things for non obvious reasons. Just like adults.

The anecdote shows how an apology has impact. Perhaps you can't handle someone
holding a boundary line on acceptable behaviour and this hit a raw nerve for
you? I don't know.

The coal was a reference to Christmas, not a grudge.

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myWindoonn
The only way to apologize is to show contrition. Anything else is only
appealing to feelings and not to a change for a better future.

'Adds Ingall, “And send the staff through sensitivity training.”'

I'd like an apology for this; sensitivity training is not a better future.
(I'd also like an apology for the smart quotes, but let's deal with one thing
at a time!)

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RichardHeart
I made a 4 min. youtube video on this subject and the checklist basically was

    
    
      1. What did you do wrong exactly? No weasel words.
      2. How do you think that made them feel? 
      3. Why are their feelings important to you? 
      4. What are you committed to doing better in the future? 
      5. What steps are you taking to make that come true? 
      6. Why is it important to you to make take those steps?
    

Taking real responsibility is so rare these days, that a well formed apology
on it's own, stands out and is rewarded immediately. Not only will you feel
great speaking about your true feelings, you'll also have a plan to a brighter
future and relationship with that person mapped out, so it's easier to follow.

When you know why your friends, family and lovers are important to you, and
how you should treat them, and why it's important to you to behave a certain
way towards them, great behavior flows more effortlessly.

~~~
rectang
Very nice!

Coming back to this discussion after a few hours, I see that many of the
comments are more concerned with _not_ apologizing than on apologizing. It's
your loss, folks!

Having the confidence to know when an apology is appropriate and to apologize
properly and sincerely, is not a humiliation but a reflection of your own
strength of character.

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thedailymail
There is some of this kind of apology parsing at the national level as well.
China and both Koreas have at various points rejected several rounds of
apologies by Japanese heads of state as insincere or insufficiently guilt-
ridden. Some cultural critics, such as Ian Buruma, have suggested that the
conflict arises out of expecting a "shame" society like Japan to act in
similar ways to a "guilt" society like Germany. Others have taken a more
cynical view, accusing Japan's historical victims of themselves acting in bad
faith in rejecting Japan's official apologies (in the sense that by keeping
the victim card in play, the historically aggrieved are able to extract more
concessions beyond the ones that accompanied the initial apology). This
dynamic is particularly marked in any discussion of comfort women.

Presumably other places we might see this is in how organizations of
indigenous peoples in US, Canada, Australia, etc. respond to formal apologies
from the national government that previously stripped them of their homelands,
in the response by former colonies to official statements of regret from old
imperial powers, and in the complex interactions between the descendants of
slaves and the white establishment in the US.

~~~
Ws32ok
Apologies are hard for governments and corporations as they can't usually die
like a natural citizen so there is no "at least it's in the past" aspect. The
"person" who did the atrocity is still at large. They are still in your face.
Often still taxing you. This is the sharp edged aspect for most indigenous
peoples. The face of the past oppressor is still around, making rules and
likely interfering by whatever definition you like to choose.

Racism/slavery is an excellent example as it clearly shows the divide between
the pain and the recovery as well as the apology and healing. Given that
whites were also trafficked as slaves it's hard to reconcile the diversity
training I've been to. Such training was essentially racist against anyone of
white skin and asserted sole responsibility. What about the Arabs, Africans,
who kept slaves? Africans of all colours hunted and gathered slaves for sale.
I heard nothing of this in the history lesson in that training. The British
were until recently paying off a massive debt due to a former government
paying for the abolishment of slavery [1]. Slavery hasn't even ended. It's
still a thing that needs to be fought. At least it's now illegal and socially
unacceptable. Governments can actually say the situation has been amended.

Does mean making amends make up for the now-crime-but-previously-non-crime?
Does a government making it illegal really help? The straightforward answer is
yes, but a substantive lingering anger will still remain. And that is the
difficulty. It never ends. So it never heals.

[1]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Slavery_Act_2015](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Slavery_Act_2015)

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woodandsteel
I like what this article has to say. I would just add that before you
apologize, you should think out what you did, how is was wrong and harmed the
other and let yourself feel bad about it, and how you can stop yourself from
doing the same sort of wrong thing in the future. Then just say all that to
the other person.

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rectang
The key to a good apology is empathizing with the other party.

How have your actions affected them?

~~~
type0
> The key to a good apology is empathizing with the other party.

We're reaching the Godwin's law here. A "good" apology is not always a good
thing though. If you do apologize you should do it to the people you know and
cherish, otherwise you might be apologizing to the worst human being on Earth
and then face the even worse consequences. Rebuttal could be a good thing and
it pays to be polite. Look here:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_(dog)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_\(dog\))

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wallflower
I learned from a communication class (I think Dale Carnegie) that it is not
enough to say "I am sorry" or 'I apologize." You need another component: "I
apologize. Please forgive me."

~~~
mcguire
Note that you also need to at least attempt to not repeat the action. Too many
people seem to get that wrong, too.

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fipple
The upside is that if you learn to apologize with the sufficient apparent
contrition you can get away with a lot of asking forgiveness rather than
permission.

