
Did Google Sabotage Firefox? - doener
https://twitter.com/johnath/status/1116871246510264320
======
Grumbledour
I always find it curious in the Chrome vs. Firefox discussion, that while
people bash chrome and think of Firefox as the truly free alternative, in the
end, even in this very technical community here, many people still choose
Chrome. Now, I got the theory that this has to do with many techies here being
US based, there are probably lots of you using Macs and from what I
understand, Firefox on Mac is even worse than Chrome on Mac? But really, I
never understood it at all, because I never experienced Firefox as "unusable
slow" as I hear people often complain about and thus I never switched to
Chrome, because I felt it offered far more annoyances than the slightly lower
speed of Firefox in comparison.

But what I am getting at, even now, that many people are starting to get
really critical about Chrome and when Firefox seems to have redeemed itself
regarding speed, many here still seem to think, Chrome is the end-all-be-all.
And with that attitude, you have to wonder, is it really google holding
Firefox back or is it us, the experts, who in large parts seem not to use it,
while still preaching how bad chrome/google is becoming. If there is no easily
pointed to technical superiority to Chrome, why are we not all using Firefox
and installing it on our families and friends computers?

And a bit unrelated: Reading this rant on twitter is just ridiculous. Get a
blog, dude!

~~~
Izkata
> there are probably lots of you using Macs and from what I understand,
> Firefox on Mac is even worse than Chrome on Mac?

From what I've read (I use Firefox on Ubuntu), there's a longstanding bug with
Firefox on Macs using a scaled resolution that causes it to become unusably
slow.

~~~
TMWNN
Is _that_ what it is? I can testify that, under equal load (hundreds/thousands
of open tabs), Firefox on Mac is indeed unbearably slow at everything in a way
that Chrome isn't.

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ninedays
You have to be crazy to think that Google has nothing to do with the degraded
experience of their services using the Firefox browser.

One example is Recaptcha, if you use Firefox, you will be asked to confirm the
Recaptcha almost all the time. Switch to Chrome and your problems disappear.

[https://support.mozilla.org/en-
US/questions/1238593](https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1238593)

It is only one of the several different things they did against Firefox.
YouTube would be another one.

The reality is that Google created those problems for Firefox to brag about
how Chrome was such a better browser etc ..

I wish Chrome had won the browser battle based on merit and innovation and not
shaddy tactics and shenanigans.

~~~
jermaustin1
I think ReCaptcha uses browser thumbprinting for remembering you are not a
robot. I will sometimes use incognito mode to browse websites as a non user,
and the ReCaptchas always make me find the chimneys or the stop signs.

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mark_l_watson
For me Firefox wins hands down because of containers.

I have a very old gmail account that my book, music/YouTube Red, and movie
purchases are on. Otherwise I use my G Suite account. Firefox makes it
possible to live with this inconvenience. If Firefox went away then I would
cancel G Suite.

Firefox containers make web browsing tidy and somewhat private.

I believe that Google tries to hinder Firefox.

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techntoke
No, Mozilla sabotaged Firefox.

~~~
musicale
^ This. Mediocre performance. Slow startup. Poor UI. Crap like Pocket.

I'd be more inclined to use Firefox if it didn't feel so clunky, didn't keep
trying to push Pocket on me, and took a more aggressive stance fighting
against web annoyances and adtech.

Heck I might consider switching to Firefox if it could actually, reliably
block autoplaying video - something that Safari and Chrome seem incapable of
doing.

~~~
sebazzz
Pocket is a deal, search providers are a deal. All to put some money in
Mozillas pocket to allow continued development of Firefox. They can't rely on
donations and Google funding alone.

~~~
techntoke
Whatever happened to being community-based and developers working on it
because they wanted to help build a great application? Why do they even need a
corporation giving them money to implement tracking and other features to
compromise user privacy and security?

~~~
CharlesColeman
> Whatever happened to being community-based and developers working on it
> because they wanted to help build a great application? Why do they even need
> a corporation giving them money to implement tracking and other features to
> compromise user privacy and security?

Browsers being:

1\. massively complicated,

2\. requiring massive feature support for compatibility with the ecosystem,

3\. the biggest attack surface on anyone's computer, and

4\. made by people doing huge amounts of work who want to eat.

I don't think we can have a secure, feature-complete, fully community-
developed browser unless there's a massive refactor and simplification of HTML
and related technologies.

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LordLestat
And here does Mozilla what they can do best… blaming others for their own
naivety – Have they really been thinking that Google is the friendly
benefactor they acted towards Mozilla? And that removing features and choice
and adopting stock features and stock design – as persuaded by Chrome
engineers – would be a clever idea to mobilize the user-masses?

And now where this failed – oh.. it is Google’s fault all along… because they
have…. sabotaged Mozilla! The idea that Mozilla must blame itself for being
naive… Impossible taught… never ever! It is always the other party which is to
blame!

The glory days of past Mozilla are SO over sadly!

~~~
LordLestat
Don't get me wrong, Google tricked them. But if Mozilla would have been more
intelligent... they never would have allowed a third-party having such a big
impact on their own influences and decisions.

Mozilla had and still has the chance to break free from Google - break free
from Google's mal-intentioned suggestions and helpful advice... and instead
make freedom again with their original core user base...
features/customization loving geeks and nerds...

But as long as Mozilla is so arrogant to not admit they have openly allowed
all that to happen... as long as that, Mozilla does not have the right to
picture itself as victim!

~~~
LordLestat
Also, still accepting Google money and surviving with it... I just can call
this the most big hypocrisy possible!

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tinus_hn
See also:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19662852](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19662852)

~~~
cromwellian
I posted my perspective/opinion as a former engineer on Inbox there anyone is
interested in details on sausage making.

