
Facebook – You are the Product - rditooait
https://www.lrb.co.uk/v39/n16/john-lanchester/you-are-the-product
======
notadoc
I stopped using Facebook years ago and I could not recommend it more. I found
it to be mental pollution at best and and a total waste of time.

If you want to 'keep in touch' with people, call or text them. Make an effort
to actually interact with the people who matter to you.

~~~
parthdesai
So tell me, how do i replace around 5 different group chats i have on
messenger which can have anywhere between 5-10 people in each chat?

Music events that i go to are exclusively promoted on facebook. How do you
recommend i find out about these events so that i can get a cheaper ticket
price?

if anyone wants to organize a plan that has more than 8 people, facebook
groups make it much much easier.

I personally hate facebook's mobile apps and some it's policies ( Internet.org
comes 1st to my mind), but it's hard to completely stop using it.

~~~
abyssin
I stopped using the harmful part of Facebook, ie the newsfeed, which is
designed to create an addictive behaviour, using the following technique. On
every single post in my newsfeed, I tell the application I no longer want to
see content from the source. It takes some weeks to dry up, but you end up
with an empty page. You still get notifications related to your events, group
activities, and you can still use the messages. By the way, here's another
tip, if you want to read and send messages on mobile without installing the
app: use mbasic.fb.com instead of the default m.facebook.com URL.

~~~
rdruxn
There are dozens of browser extensions that just hide the newsfeed. No need to
go through all that labor.

~~~
ck425
None that work with Chrome Android though. :(

~~~
tripzilch
But Chrome Android doesn't let you use extensions, period. Not really sure why
you'd want to use it :-)

------
olympus
I'm here to fix some ignorance, since the source of the "you are the product"
idea is not these books.

Metafilter user blue_beetle first put this idea online when he said "If you
are not paying for it, you're not the customer; you're the product being sold"
in response to the Digg revolt of 2010. The idea apparently existed for a few
decades prior regarding TV advertising. I prefer to think blue_beetle was the
one who brought it into the zeitgeist.

[http://www.metafilter.com/95152/Userdriven-
discontent](http://www.metafilter.com/95152/Userdriven-discontent)

[http://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/07/16/product/](http://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/07/16/product/)

Edit: Alex3917 posted a similar idea on HN on 6 May 2010, beating blue_beetle
by a couple months. Gotta give credit where it's due:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15030959](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15030959)

~~~
cortesoft
I really don't like that phrase; you are NOT the product that facebook
creates.

Facebook creates a product which is a social media network. You PAY for that
product with your data and your eyeballs. Facebook takes your payment, turns
around, and sells it to advertisers and others interested in the data.

That is not the same as saying you are the product.

~~~
jeffdavis
Fisherman don't create fish. They lure them in with bait, trap them, and sell
them.

~~~
CalChris
Most of the fish you eat is farmed fish.

------
akeck
I wonder if, in the future, being able not to be on any social media will be
an higher class privilege.

~~~
olympus
I think it already is. I recently deleted my FB and Twitter accounts. I had to
keep my LinkedIn account because a recruiter told me that if I didn't have at
least some online persona then I was weird and wouldn't be hired. I guess I'm
not rich enough to delete all my social media.

~~~
turc1656
Fascinating that a recruiter actually told you that. I wonder if it's actually
true or if the recruiter was saying that because...they are a recruiter and
having people on LinkedIn makes their life easier.

~~~
glitcher
Do not underestimate the lengths recruiters (or anyone in charge of hiring for
that matter) will go to in order to paint a picture of who they think you are
solely based on the social media content they are able to find (or not find)
on you.

I have a common name, and have been passed over for job opportunities because
someone else in my city with my same name at one point had a facebook account
full of obscenities.

------
phatbyte
I dropped all my social networks in the beginning of the year. I did for two
main reasons.

First, for privacy concerns. FB, specially was getting to creepy for me. I
felt, every action I did was being analyzed and filtered, I felt like I was a
lab rat. The fact that these companies know so much about us is pretty scary,
I felt like I needed to regain my privacy, fight the system somehow.

Second reason was because, I wasn't getting anything substantial that could
improve my life overall. All I saw was dumb-ass posts, ignorant comments, the
passive aggressiveness, the "look at me doing this really mundane thing, but
please like my picture so I can feel validated", etc... feels like a mouse-cat
race to see which of us has a better life or something. I honestly feel bad
for how much time I spent there when I could apply that time to learn new
things.

After more than 6 months without FB, here's what I've learned:

\- I still keep in touch with my closest friends, we chat on slack/iMessage
every day. It's actually a good way to know who really misses you, during this
time, only about 5% of my FB friends reached out to me through message or
phone to ask how were things in life. The other 95%, I really don't even
remember most of their names anymore. Just ask yourselves, why do we have to
share so much of our lives with so many "friends"? I know we can filter, and
create groups, etc.. but damn...do you really want to spend your life
"managing" relationships, to see who sees what? I find that tiresome.

\- I don't feel left out of anything, because I keep track of local events
using other sources, I read news from faithful websites, and if I need to
share anything I just use the old email or show face-to-face any pictures I
need of my latest vacation from my phone without having to share anything with
anyone.

\- I gain more time, less stress, I don't feel overwhelmed to keep track of
every social media update. I just don't care. If something important happens I
will know it sooner or later.

\- I no longer have this need to constantly keep posting photos of what I'm
doing outdoors or whatever. I don't have the need to feel validated by anyone
but myself.

\- But most importantly, I regained my privacy, or at least my social
footprint is bare none at this point. I'm using uBlock, Firefox, DuckDuckGo
and other tools to keep trackers at bay.

I may never completely win this war, but at least my habits aren't being
recorded and feed to any ML algorithm.

------
grwthckrmstr
I'm using Facebook to earn my "fuck you money".

The advertising tools are so powerful it is downright scary, the level of
targeting one can do using it is just insane.

That's partly the reason why I stopped posting updates. After seeing the depth
of the advertising tools.

I don't use Facebook for posting personal updates anymore but only to fuel my
business. I realise that the only way I can "choose" to stay out of all these
services that track and sell our identity to advertisers is if I have "fuck
you money" (money is the currency you exchange for your limited time in order
to survive in this world).

~~~
ionised
So you don't like Facebook tracking and advertising to you but you happily
make your money using those tools you describe as downright scary on others?

Does this not scream hypocrisy to you?

------
adrianlmm
I've been using Facebook for years, awesome tool, I'm in contact with friends,
relatives and parters, it is awesome.

~~~
adrianlmm
Why the mod downs? It makes you angry that I find Facebook useful?

~~~
wepple
Perhaps your comment didn't add anything useful to the discussion other than a
lightweight opinion?

However, HN downvotes do seem to be trending toward "I disagree" recently too,
in my experience.

~~~
Karunamon
As if these constant digs at Facebook amount to deep nuance?

By all means, if you can't use a website without becoming addicted to it,
disconnect.

But there's no need to damn everyone else with the "that's exactly what an
addict would say" kafkatrap rhetoric that seems to be so popular every time
the topic comes up.

------
amrrs
Cal Newport has been saying things like Facebook and other SM are engineered
to be addictive and we've constantly seeing Youths falling for it. Adam Alter
made a similar comment that when we've got a proper regulation for substances,
why not for something like social media?

Fb is not just making us another node in a vast network graph but also
ensuring a worst boring grown-ups who can't do anything worthy but post an Fb
post condemning something and feeling great about their social responsibility.

------
occultist_throw
Indeed.

Any service online, where you do not explicitly pay money for goods/services
rendered, you can rest assured that you are paying with data or influence
(advertisement).

HN is no different. They control the news, and how the news is displayed. They
run the YCombinator venture capital fund. You do not pay them, but they
control influence (advertising). I would expect different if I paid YC for
news access... But I dont.

~~~
drewmol
That line is increasingly blurred. Premium(payed) services also data mine, and
I find it increasingly difficult to tell to what extent. As long as you
collect a trove of data, and that data has market value, I generally expect it
to be sold/used for profit. Edit: grammar

------
kristianc
> Whatever comes next will take us back to those two pillars of the company,
> growth and monetisation. Growth can only come from connecting new areas of
> the planet.

This is a questionable assertion. Giant tech companies like Oracle and IBM
don't tend to expand in this way, they make acquisitions of smaller companies,
and use them to enhance the platform capabilities of the larger product.

I'm sure Zuck will be delighted if the "bottom billion" do all sign up and use
Facebook, but they're never going to be massively profitable accounts.

Imo the acquisitions of Instagram and WhatsApp show the way that Facebook will
go - Instagram adds a new and lucrative ad format, a profitable user segment
and a base for adding in ideas from other platforms, such as Snapchat.
WhatsApp builds out Facebook's graph and can be mined for intel.

------
justaguy2017
I don't understand the problem, you can use Facebook for adding friends and
messaging them and it's free. You can use Facebook Messenger, not use the app
and use website for adding people and getting their information. The newsfeed
there can be turned off or customised, if you do install the app, all
notifications can be turned off. This is a good and free service, but if
people don't know hot to use it, maybe there is a point in writing about it.
Messages about deleting Facebook account seem counterproductive, because why
throw away a good tool if you use it rarely and it's useful?

~~~
hohenheim
It seems you didn't read the text. The point the article is making is not
about how to use the Facebook and its set of features. I will not try to
create a TL;DR in a comment as that would not do justice to the article, but
please read it.

It might help you understand why it is "free". You be the judge of if that is
good or bad.

------
nsnick
The real problem with Facebook is that it causes depression. No one posts
anything bad about their lives so your life looks terrible in comparison to
the image everyone is posting.

------
0xfaded
I log in whenever I need to use messenger, about once every three months. Was
greeted with a notification telling me it had been 258 weeks since I last
updated my profile. :)

~~~
yoz-y
Facebook has been slowly making messenger worse though. They have added the
stupid status updates which nobody in my circle uses. Before I knew that when
I got to messenger I would only have conversations, now I dread that they will
slowly transform it into yet another "platform".

It would be a right move for them probably, going mobile first like WeChat did
in China, still it is probably the only "messaging only" platform which people
around me use.

------
taytus
I haven't used FB in the last 6 months or so. I'm mentally healthier.

------
nawgszy
There is a certain irony in an article criticizing of Facebook as a data-
retailer disguised as a free service being "free with exchange of an email
address".

------
booleandilemma
I think every adult who uses FB is aware of this and they don't care. FB users
self-select for people who don't care that a company productizes them.

------
sametmax
I read more and more articles and comments about things we've been saying for
years. How come you wake up now and say that like it's a surprise ?

~~~
hk__2
Every time I think something like this, I remember that xkcd [1] about people
learning things you already know, especially the mouseover text.

[1]: [https://xkcd.com/1053/](https://xkcd.com/1053/)

~~~
MattSayar
On the comics front, I've seen this comic since at least 2013

[http://computerfloss.com/wp-
content/uploads/2013/08/facebook...](http://computerfloss.com/wp-
content/uploads/2013/08/facebook-and-you.jpg)

------
noncoml
It's been years since I deleted my Facebook account, I do use WhatsApp though,
and I don't feel like I am missing up on anything.

~~~
bauerd
Deleted my Facebook account two months ago, but kept the Messenger for keeping
up with a handful of friends. Haven't missed the newsfeed spam a day since!
Rest assured you're not missing out

~~~
edison85
Is it actually possible to keep messenger without Facebook? Because Facebook
is a complete time wasting, spam filled, mind dulling echo chamber platform
that I keep going back to due to habit. If I log out or deactivate I
completely don't care after a few days, but messenger is essential to me.

~~~
bauerd
Yes, and I didn't know that either until I tried it out. My regular FB account
is "deactivated", but Messenger works just fine. They seem to have decoupled
both products some time ago.

~~~
chickenfries
Wait, that's awesome. I've been using news feed eradicator but now you're
telling me that I can delete my Facebook account and still have a messenger
account?

Does that messenger account work for "sign in with facebook" buttons? For
example, the only way to authenticate with Tinder is a Facebook account.

~~~
bauerd
No, you can't use the Messenger account for authentication. At least for
Tinder I can confirm it doesn't work, maybe there's an OAuth provider for
Messenger that no one uses, idk

------
jellicle
I hope people are ready for Facebook to be fully integrated into Zuckerberg's
political campaign.

------
wentoodeep
Messenger bot platform is the only reason I turned back to facebook.

------
tehlike
i am not using facebook actively, but still have my account. have been so much
happier since i started doing this.

------
lanevorockz
Isn't it also true for Google ?

