
Boeing Shares Halted Pending News - tempsy
https://twitter.com/cheddar/status/1219701109108899843
======
tempsy
Update: It's resumed trading. News was that the FAA would delay ungrounding of
737 Max until June/July at earliest, months later than Boeing originally
promised.

------
trhway
Boeing 737-800 crash landing in 2009 already highlighted the same general
issues as with 737 MAX:

[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7909915/Design-
shor...](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7909915/Design-shortcomings-
Boeing-plane-caused-737-crash-2009-new-report-finds.html)

>New York Times cites unpublished Dutch report on Turkish Airlines crash from
2009 in which nine people were killed near Amsterdam

>Dutch investigators determined that design flaws led to the Boeing 737-800
crashing into a field

>Investigators found that a sensor mistakenly triggered a command computer to
idle the engine as the plane approached the runway for landing

>But American investigators with the US government and Boeing pressured the
Dutch investigators to emphasize pilot error while downplaying Boeing's role

And that about simulator sounds very familiar too:

>Boeing has stopped production of the planes and agreed to allow pilots to
undergo simulator training before the jets return to service.

~~~
panarky
We should stop talking about this as an engineering defect that the FAA needs
X number of months to review.

The root cause is not an engineering defect, but a set of organizational,
cultural, and managerial defects. This is the root cause that leads inexorably
to a variety of seemingly unrelated engineering defects.

Perhaps regulators should hold off on approving new airplanes until Boeing can
demonstrate that they have fixed the organizational, cultural, and managerial
defects that are the root cause of their safety problems.

------
K0SM0S
Question: how much would it cost Boeing if the 737 MAX was never allowed to
fly again? Could it bring them down, on the brink of bankrupcy, or is it
something they could stomach?

~~~
SteveNuts
Without "doing the math" \- I'd say they'd get bailed out by the US government
since Boeing is a huge provider of military hardware.

~~~
lucb1e
I expect they don't need bailing, they do so much more than a single airplane
model.

~~~
favorited
I agree that it would be unlikely to tank enough that it needs a bailout, but
it could significantly hurt.

They have a large stock of undelivered 737 MAX airplanes (~400 brand-new
planes sitting in parking lots), and wouldn't be paid for them. They also
wouldn't be able to deliver on any existing 737 MAX contracts.

~~~
zelon88
You never know. Companies like Boeing create LTAs with their suppliers,
agreeing to specific pricing over many numbers of years.

Most of these contracts are written with language that if a part is no longer
required that Boeing must still buy out the LTA. Basically, Boeing must buy
parts for the 737 Max from suppliers even if they can never build another
plane! Either that or the suppliers who make parts for the 737 will have to
eat all the WIP and inventory costs which would be just as devestating to the
domestic manufacturing market as if Boeing itself went under.

Aerospace is a yuuuuuge market for American Manufacturing. It's one of the
only manufacturing markets that China is unable to compete in.

------
mrr54
I don't really understand halting share trading. Who is the exchange to say
who may or may not trade a product you own? It just seems weird. If there's
bad news, the people who pay attention most closely, and get access to that
information the fastest should be allowed to use it, surely?

~~~
devmunchies
I've realized that everything I own it is because I have permission to own
(and someone else, permission to sell). Property rights have not been properly
defended so they are fading away.

I was reading Stripe and Braintree's restricted businesses
([https://stripe.com/restricted-businesses](https://stripe.com/restricted-
businesses)) and saw _" unauthorized sale or resale of brand name or designer
products or services"_. If I own something physical there should be nothing
telling me I can't sell it.

~~~
generalpass
> I was reading Stripe and Braintree's restricted businesses
> ([https://stripe.com/restricted-businesses](https://stripe.com/restricted-
> businesses)) and saw "unauthorized sale or resale of brand name or designer
> products or services". If I own something physical there should be nothing
> telling me I can't sell it.

Property rights also apply to Stripe, in that the company, as an asset itself,
can be restricted by its owners to conduct business in some certain way.

And I wouldn't be surprised if Stripe's policies will have more to do with the
credit card companies than Stripe. Then, further, the credit card companies
act as a cartel by using the government to prevent anyone else from using
property to create a competing service by making the ROI on creating a
competing service worse than other investment opportunities, or even just
blocking it outright under some nebulous "shut down for accounting
irregularities" or "insufficient consumer protections" nonsense.

~~~
gowld
When someone speaks of property rights, they usually mean their own rights,
not others'.

~~~
generalpass
> When someone speaks of property rights, they usually mean their own rights,
> not others'.

This is completely your own assertion and suggests a lack of understanding of
property rights. How can I talk about property rights under the assumption
that they apply only to me, unless I believe that I am the only one in the
universe with property rights?

------
magduf
They should have paused all building of the 737MAX long ago, and switched to
other models. The 777 in particular seems to at least have a stellar
reputation still.

~~~
nwallin
You can't really just up and retool a production line for a one year delay.
Even switching to 737NG isn't really possible.

And the triple 7 isn't a replacement for the MAX. It has double the passenger
capacity. It's like if Ford had to stop manufacturing Fiestas and manufactured
F-150s in their place. These are different markets.

~~~
magduf
It should have been pretty obvious that this plane was a turkey and that
building more of them was just throwing good money after bad.

Meanwhile, they could have been producing more planes that don't have
problems, and actually sell, even if they are for different markets. There's a
backlog for all planes, so switching to something else would have at least
helped clear that backlog and net more profit, instead of just building more
planes that are just going to sit in parking lots.

While doing this, they should have immediately started work on engineering for
an all-new replacement for the 737.

Of course, instead of having me as their CEO, Boeing would rather have some
clown like Muilenberg who makes stupid decisions that got them to where they
are now, and then give him a giant golden parachute when they get rid of him
for incompetence. I would have cost far less.

------
tempsy
I don't think a Dow component has ever been halted before, so this is highly
unusual.

Shares crashed more than 5.5% in the 30m or so before it was halted.

~~~
BinaryIdiot
> I don't think a Dow component has ever been halted before, so this is highly
> unusual.

What do you mean? Stocks get halted all the time especially before big news.

~~~
tempsy
Dow component...

Though someone mentioned JNJ did. Otherwise it's very uncommon for a blue chip
to be halted.

~~~
dmurray
AAPL had a trading halt last January [0], pending a profit warning. Google
will likely find dozens if not hundreds more halts in Dow components.

[0]
[https://thefly.com/landingPageNews.php?id=2842788](https://thefly.com/landingPageNews.php?id=2842788)

------
kangnkodos
I thought I saw a headline earlier today that said that Boeing was permanently
halting production of the 737 Max. It was probably fake news. I can't find any
real news on that subject.

Maybe the market today is overreacting to that fake news/rumor?

~~~
oarsinsync
You may be confusing 'officially' with 'permanently'

There's a headline on the front page of HN saying that they've officially
halted production.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22108220](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22108220)

