
Deleting Uber is the least you can do - braythwayt
https://medium.com/@dhh/deleting-uber-is-the-least-you-can-do-30c0601103ea
======
onion2k
Unless the perception of the culture at Uber changes _dramatically_ I strongly
suspect Uber managers (and possibly engineers) are going to find having Uber
on your resume is a strong negative indicator when they leave to find new
roles. It's not fair to suggest everyone there is part of this culture we're
reading about but organisations are frequently cautious and hiring someone who
_is_ part of it, and believes what goes on at Uber is normal and acceptable,
could be quite damaging for any hiring manager. That means they won't even
give you an interview. Everyone at Uber really needs to be fighting this
reputation _hard_.

~~~
sjtgraham
> I strongly suspect Uber managers (and possibly engineers) are going to find
> having Uber on your resume is a strong negative indicator when they leave to
> find new roles.

Many people at Uber never need work again.

~~~
onion2k
In theory, but in practise they have to keep working, and it has to be at Uber
because they can't afford to leave.

[https://techcrunch.com/2016/04/29/handcuffed-to-
uber/](https://techcrunch.com/2016/04/29/handcuffed-to-uber/)

~~~
ryanbrunner
No one at Uber is in a position where they are unable to leave and find
additional work. They may have to give up their lottery ticket, but the
handcuffs in question don't exist if employees choose not to exercise their
options.

------
potatosoup
While Uber (probably) had it coming, it's still annoying that the Internet as
of late has turned into scores of "famous person writes a long virtuous post
proclaiming how some other famous person is less virtuous."

I want my Internet back.

(Stopped using Uber after they changed iOS app location tracking choices to
only "Always" or "Never," instead of original "While using the app")

~~~
rdgthree
I feel the same way - not because either side is necessarily wrong, but
because these kind of articles are grossly simplified. Uber is not pure evil,
or pure good.

Even the #DeleteUber hashtag originated from a misunderstanding:
[https://www.axios.com/uber-didnt-deserve-
deleteuber-22258932...](https://www.axios.com/uber-didnt-deserve-
deleteuber-2225893201.html)

Certainly the article about sexism in the workplace is deeply concerning, but
that doesn't suddenly mean Uber is a force for pure evil in the world and has
done no good for anyone. It means, like many organizations (especially ones
that are growing aggressively), they have serious internal problems. Travis
immediately responded to the article, and I have no doubt that he is against
rampant sexism occurring in the company. What would be the motivation for him
to allow it to continue happening?

~~~
bdavisx
I don't know anything about Travis or Uber directly except what I've read. But
I've read enough to know something is really wrong.

>What would be the motivation for him to allow it to continue happening?

Because the company got where it is with exactly this culture. Look at AIG in
the 2000's -- huge portions of the company lying about their finances, leading
to the ouster of their CEO. Only to be followed up by a huge bailout in the
2008 financial crisis under the new CEO. The culture was poisoned, it comes
from the top down - everyone in management is cutthroat because that's the
only way to survive. And it's pretty much impossible to change.

I worked at a company that was purchased by AIG - American General. My
executive level boss was dishonest - lied about people working for her, and
lied to other executives. She made her way from a low level executive to a
Executive VP once the company was bought by AIG. Once you've got a toxic
culture, that's how the company works; and I think there are a lot of
companies like this.

------
curiousess
If you were outraged by Trumps "locker room talk," I don't see how you can
stand by an entire company culture dedicated to protecting serial harassers
and silencing their victims. Gross, this company is just gross.

~~~
vinceguidry
Is outrage really a viable option any more for driving policy change? Seems
like the last election proved that all you're doing is pissing away
organizational energy.

~~~
feedjoelpie
I don't see how you could look at what happened and how it was systematically
brushed under the rug, then at what has happened since the article was
published, and come to the conclusion that anything BUT outrage would drive a
change at this company.

------
sapphire_tomb
I'm 50/50 on this. I _am_ offended by the shady practises coming out around
Uber, and would like to vote with my feet as it were - but in London UK, Uber
has no real alternative. Lyft doesn't operate at all outside the US as far as
I can tell - and I'm unaware of any other taxi firms which operate the same
model here.

So I'm left with using offical "Black Taxis", which don't have one central app
to get hold of them (I think there are four different ones last time I
checked), and the darlings of silicon roundabout will point out they cost a
lot more than an Uber does for the same journey.

~~~
JelteF
The same is true for Amsterdam

~~~
CaptainZapp
Why exactly do you need Uber in the city with arguably the best bike
infrastructure in the world and no hills, whatsoever?

Oh, bad weather?

As far I recall Amsterdam has absolute stellar public transportation and if
that doesn't cut it an occasional taxi ride is probably a valid option.

Oh, there's no app (which I doubt)? What about, like in the old times, just
give the dispatcher a ring?

To each his own and you're responsible for maintaining your moral compass.

I for one never used and never, ever will use Uber. No matter what. This
company is morally so reprehensible that I could never justify throwing any
money on them.

~~~
avar
I live in Amsterdam and mostly bike around, but sometimes you need to get a
car for whatever reason.

Uber's much cheaper. I've had a car from the airport into the city go as low
as 17 EUR, usually around 25. Hailing a taxi costs at least 40 EUR.

It's also very convenient to know the location of your arriving taxi for
knowing when to leave a party and leaving out several minutes of explaining
the route to the driver.

It's also not uncommon for taxi drivers here to drive you a much longer route
if they think you're not a local and don't know where they're going. It's
happened to me, and several of my friends. Never happened with Uber.

I've also found service with Uber to be much better. The first time I tried it
here in Amsterdam the driver offered me a bottle of water and asked how I was
doing. That had never happened to me once here in Amsterdam. The customer
ability to rate drivers does wonders for service over traditional taxi
companies.

------
temp-dude-87844
Why would I delete Uber? They're using VC money to subside transportation for
thousands; money is literally leaving their pocket and going into those of
part-time drivers who ferry my and others' butt around the wastelands of
America's suburbia. Their managerial track record is well documented, they've
ignored laws from the beginning hoping to wait until the tides of regulation
shift into their favor, helped by lots of time spent lobbying and
intimidating. They have shown that no holds will be barred to spread the wings
of Uber far and wide so they can ruthlessly crush local taxis and any less-
funded competition. But at the end of the day, Uber isn't someone you vote for
with your wallet, it's someone who gives you more service than the money you
put in.

We already knew before the harrassment allegations that the management may be
full of skeezy types, but Uber is one of those rare ventures where punishing
the company legitimately doesn't punish the company at all, but rather solely
its employees, drivers, and riders.

So turn your outrage into something productive, not knee-jerk reactive. For
example, _donate to some organization that stands up for the rights of
harrassed employees._ Ponder about whether this is something that could happen
to you, or if you'd be capable of this abhorrent behavior. Start a
conversation. Think really hard about whether you'll use your influence and
social pull to sway people around you or on the internet, and the message you
send. Comparing your movement to #DeleteUber perhaps isn't such a good idea,
given the whole damn thing was most likely an embarrassing misunderstanding
that was vilified by people assuming the worst. Are you sending a reasoned, if
impassioned message, or just riling a mob?

~~~
anonu
> money is literally leaving their pocket and going into those of part-time
> drivers who ferry my and others' butt around

I think its really just your pocket - the passenger. I think Uber has
"democratized" the process of becoming a taxi driver. But I doubt it's made
things better for taxi drivers. Maybe one could have argued that it had in the
early years of Uber - 2 or 3 years ago. But I think the driver's are feeling
the pinch now. There's an oversupply in busy areas. Uber also gets new drivers
"hooked" by sending them a lot of fares early on after they signup.

------
subpixel
I know I'm in the minority but I actually never installed Uber because
everything I read about the company's tactics and leadership disturbed me,
from day one.

------
jondwillis
>I don’t think it’s a coincidence that both Peter Thiel and Uber CEO Travis
Kalanick have been chummy and beyond with Trump.

Travis has been chummy and beyond with Trump? What's beyond?

~~~
dllthomas
In Travis's case, what's "chummy" in the first place? Agreeing to serve on a
forum and stepping down before it ever met?

~~~
aioprisan
You mean he was forced to step down by the pressure users put on him
[http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/03/schwarzman-uber-ceo-forced-
to...](http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/03/schwarzman-uber-ceo-forced-to-quit-
trump-council.html)

~~~
dllthomas
Yes. The piece I wanted to clarify was that it occurred before any meeting.

------
dllthomas
It seems worth noting that "Trump surrogate" Peter Thiel (who somehow damns
Uber by association) is not only _not_ involved in Uber, but is a major
investor in Lyft (as is Carl Icahn).

------
jlebrech
Uber is the solution to taxi drivers using dirty tricks (i.e taking the long
way, turning the meter off), but also comes with it's own dirty tricks (surge
pricing).

~~~
lotsofpulp
I don't understand how charging market price is a "dirty trick". When the
demand curve shifts, the price must also shift to meet the supply curve,
otherwise you will create a condition where there is not enough supply.

This concept applies to any perishable good, including seafood, hotel room
nights, flights, concert/show prices...otherwise how should the limited
resource be distributed? And how can production of the resource be stimulated
if the prices don't shift to meet the supply curve?

~~~
havetocharge
Sometimes what they charge you is not "market price" though. On my last trip
my Uber driver took me via a huge curve and the charge ended up being ~ 40
dollars more than the projected value. I've filled out a form explaining the
situation and most of the 40 dollars were immediately deducted from the fare
on submission.

I don't know whether the driver made a mistake or took me on a "trip"
deliberately, but if I was in a normal taxi, I would either have to pay, or
fight with the driver.

Not defending the company culture, but the app does protect the consumer from
some level of undesirable taxi driver behaviour.

------
tudorconstantin
It seems that Silicon Valley loves to hate people who have a different
political opinion than theirs - like Peter Thiel and Travis Kalanick.

Regarding the "strange year at Uber" post, it's absolutely shocking for me to
see smart people jump at conclusions based on a single point of view - her.

I'm not saying she's lying, but hearing just one side of the story is never
enough.

If the same post would've come from an ex employee of Facebook, which didn't
supported Trump, I'm sure people would've had second thoughts regarding its
true veracity.

But if it's something negatively related to Trump, it must be true.

I'm not a Trump voter, I'm not even American and this witch hunting that takes
place against Trump's supporters is quite suspicious, even when looked at from
Romania where I'm located.

~~~
WalterSear
No, they love to hate powerful assholes, and we need to stop pretending that
right wing libertarianism is a harmless 'alternate perspective', when it's the
political platform of protofacism - in other words, the political platform of
the contemporary asshole.

~~~
tudorconstantin
So, it's either left wing, socialist perspective, or a wrong and harmless one?

That's not a very tolerant position, is it?

~~~
WalterSear
You go ahead and fondle your strawman.

------
param
I skimmed through the article fast, so here is what I gleaned:

1\. Donald Trump is bad, Thiel is bad for supporting him.

2\. There are problems at Uber

3\. ... ?

4\. Lets punish ALL shareholders, and YOURSELF, by not using the service.

5\. ... ?

If some law has been broken, I would prefer that the guilty person(s) be held
accountable. I am not sure why I have to pay more for taxis at this time

~~~
chinathrow
Worldwide, riders pay 41% of the cost of transportation with Uber.

[https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/uber-true-cost-
uh...](https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/uber-true-cost-uh-oh)

"Investor reports reveal riders only pay 41 percent of the full cost of each
ride, with investors footing the remaining 59 percent."

That is reason enough for me not to use it. It's bankrupting whole
industries/families/incomes with VC capital.

~~~
hyperbovine
But this is exactly why I do use it (or did, until this latest stuff came out)
-- if some clueless VC wants to burn their unicorn giving me subsidized rides,
I'm more than happy to supply the fuel. And let's be honest: the taxi industry
is/was just terrible.

~~~
chinathrow
No, not all taxi industry is/was just terrible worldwide. That might be the
case for some regions or even large countries, but you're oversimplificating
things.

------
Beltiras
I did it this morning. A service rep sent me an email later to confirm I was
marked for deletion. I wonder if they have a human read through all of them.

------
d--b
I'm usually not a big fan of DHH (talking about silicon valley hubris?), but
this is a good read.

------
oceanswave
I'm glad someone realizes what unbounded capitalism looks like. Whether we
must somehow punish Uber for doing exactly what their investors and
shareholders want, but yet neglect those exact companies that uber competes
against, is a rabbit hole stance to take

~~~
sp332
Are you just giving up on improving working conditions in the industry then?

------
lhnz
I can only assume that the creation and sharing of this article is meant as a
political act, since there is no way that this will move the growth needle.

If you want to change Uber's culture for the better, you need to persuade
those that work within it and have klout to use it. In order to do this, first
you'll need to believe that there are good, kind-hearted people that work
there and that aren't happy with what happened.

Telling a small number of people to 'delete the app' or pointing the finger at
everybody that works there isn't going to do any good.

------
canuckintime
What are the alternatives to Uber in Canada? Even a basic feature set (request
a taxi with calling a number/hailing on the street) would be worth considering
in these circumstances

------
alphabettsy
Seems to be people are finally realizing Uber isn't much different from some
of America's other large businesses that seem to have little regard for
ethics.

------
daxfohl
So what's the _most_ you can do?

------
chinathrow
Deleting Uber or just never ever sign up.

------
monochromatic
For writing an article that's ostensibly about Uber, DHH sure does seem to be
hung up on Donald Trump.

------
pluma
If this is what it takes to convince you not to use Uber, don't bother
deleting Uber.

~~~
pluma
As I'm being downvoted, I'll elaborate:

You shouldn't delete Uber because DHH tells you so. You should delete Uber
because you find their practices immoral.

Over the years there have been enough articles about Uber that could justify
calling them immoral and deciding to boycott their service. You don't have to
wait for a "celebrity" to tell you what to do.

On the other hand, if you are only convinced because DHH says it, you might
not actually believe that they're bad and just join the protest to feel
morally justified outrage and show off your virtuousness -- in which case it
is probably dishonest to do so.

In other words you shouldn't join a protest because someone people talk about
using their initials does it, or because your peers think everyone should do
it. You should protest because you think something is worth protesting.

Personally I totally agree with DHH that Uber is worth protesting, but I agree
because I've observed Uber's behaviour over the past years and come to that
conclusion myself. If you haven't you should read into it and determine
whether you agree or not.

And if you disagree, you should think about why that is, too. If you want to
be think of person that agrees with these things but don't, that should be a
cause for personal reflection. Simply joining the bandwagon doesn't help with
that, even if it helps the protest.

------
sergiotapia
DHH just couldn't help himself and had to mention President Trump. Yawn.

~~~
allanmacgregor
DHH couldn't help himself and had to virtue signal; there is not enough
information out yet, and everyone is calling for Uber's figurative head to
roll.

------
kevando
I feel like there is a "sacrifice for the greater good" mentality growing.
Think about how many civilians the US govt killed in the middle east just so
we could have decently priced oil. I think that mentality is bleeding into
other areas, like Uber. The thinking goes: "We are the only ones working to
solve transportation in ten years, so its okay if we are sexist today."

------
holydude
Surprise, surprise. Most of the big companies are evil. You can either go full
stallman style or be very reasonable about buying/using services from these
companies.

~~~
hyperbovine
False equivalence. Most big companies do _not_ have the sort of culture I read
about in that Fowler piece.

------
danr4
I really dislike posts like these. The truth is that Uber makes the lives of
millions of people better and that's why it's valued at $66B. There are far
worse companies doing far worse things helping fewer people.

I mean, what is the end cause? shutting down uber? teaching it a lesson? will
it really help reduce sexual harassment in the workplace? or are you treating
the symptom instead of the disease?

This is just a rant against the so-called "Silicon Valley culture".

~~~
mateus1
So I should support companies that actively endorse sexual harassment cause
there are "worse ones out there"?

Also, saying market cap is a metric of "doing good" is a ridiculous proposal.

The end cause is drawing a line.

------
nunez
Correction: I read Susan's blog post about her year at Uber here:
[https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-
on...](https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-one-very-
strange-year-at-uber). It turns out that this consultant _can_ survive without
Uber. I deleted it and deleted my account as well.

Leaving my original post up for accountability.

\---

Uber is kind of like Windows: they are #1 in their markets, so they are many
people's #1 target.

It bothers me more that we haven't heard more about the goings-on at Lyft.
Compared to all of the attraction that Uber's gotten, Lyft is squeaky clean.
That can't be right.

From a practicality standpoint, there's no way I can delete Uber. I travel
every week and use ridesharing services often. There are several times in
which Uber is the only service that has cars on the road or the difference in
wait time is pretty stark. When it's 12AM and you need to be up at 7AM that
morning, every minute counts.

~~~
burkaman
Lyft has the same legal and regulatory issues as Uber, they just don't seem to
have as many sleazy people. Most companies are not ever in the news for
employing terrible people, so I don't think it's that hard to believe.

Honestly the worst thing I've seen from Lyft is this blog post[0], in which
they celebrate someone, driving at 9 months pregnant, who decided to pick up
another passenger when she went into labor instead of going straight to the
hospital.

[0]: [https://blog.lyft.com/posts/2016/9/6/chicago-special-
deliver...](https://blog.lyft.com/posts/2016/9/6/chicago-special-delivery)

