
Available for preorder today, Surface Duo - tomduncalf
https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2020/08/12/available-for-preorder-today-surface-duo-is-purpose-built-for-mobile-productivity/
======
nxc18
I was a windows phone user for ages, I’ve got several surfaces, and I’m super
hyped about dual screen phones.

Unfortunately this device just isn’t made for 2020 (or 2017) usage: small
battery with no wireless charging, not waterproof, no NFC (aka no wireless
payments), questionable/unproven camera, processor with 2017 specs driving two
screens.

On top of all that, surface has particularly bad hardware reliability. Of the
devices I’ve owned, each has had to be factory serviced. My Nokia phones from
the windows phone 8 era all needed to be factory serviced. And all that for
the low price of two iPhones.

Sadly this is yet another innovative device that will be killed by making the
wrong trade offs. I expect it to be copied and executed much better by Apple
or maybe Samsung (I tried the Note 10 recently and the stylus is much better
than the surface pen).

~~~
eightysixfour
I actually think this device was made for me. I carry an iPhone for my
personal phone, but I keep a separate device for work where most of the things
you just mentioned don't matter. I need it to last a work day and
waterproofing, NFC, and the camera won't matter to me in that context, etc.

There is a good chance this will replace my laptop for ~75% of my work, which
is dominated by meetings, not focused work time.

~~~
jszymborski
Might I ask what your use-case is?

~~~
eightysixfour
My role is a bit delivery management and a bit account management so I have a
lot of facetime (well, pre-COVID) with B2B clients and I am also responsible
for making sure delivery teams are on track.

An average day for me is 50%+ meetings and the rest of the time is spend
coordinating actions (slack, text, emails, JIRA boards, Aha, etc.) as a result
of those. Right now I bounce around between a laptop (Surface Pro) and a paper
notebook. I could also probably do most of my job with an iPad Pro but the
idea of the split screen appeals to me enough for me to overcome the switching
cost that, for whatever reason, the iPad Pro did not.

Having a decade old note taking system that I still actively use inside of
OneNote is also a contributor to my interest. My biggest fear for the Duo is
that the stylus experience is subpar, so I'll certainly be trying that out
first.

------
dgellow
I don't really care if this product is successful or not, but I want to say
that I'm glad to see hardware experiments from Microsoft. Not a lot of company
are willing to experiment with different form factor at the scale of
Microsoft, so it's nice to see some attempt to innovate!

------
on_and_off
I am not sure who this is for ?

I don't want to sound negative (and have to admit I don't represent the whole
population) so if this appeals to you, can you explain to me why please ?

As much as I dream of the day where you will be able to just change your
screen size on a whim, we don't have the tech yet.

And it seems to me that if you need more screen estate, you will just get a
tablet, not an hybrid ?

~~~
tw04
I'm on the fence just based on the camera. Thats' my 1, 2 & 3 decision maker
at this point with young kids.

The universal feedback I've seen from peers who are considering the pre-order
is: I can stop carrying around an iPad.

$1399 replaces an ipad and a phone for them. Time will tell if the usability
matches their expectations.

~~~
spanhandler
Parent here. I won't buy a phone that doesn't have a good camera and take
"live photos". The camera is the only reason I've not looked into getting rid
of my smart phone entirely. I'd have to find some way to keep WhatsApp
working, though, or else convince my entire contact list to migrate, and find
a solution for MFA that works with everything from Steam to Github, so either
of those might end up being blockers if I actually tried, but I'm _not_ trying
because I won't give up a good Internet-connected camera (=auto-backups) that
takes live photos.

I just gave it a quick DDG, and it looks like that still means my only option
is iPhones (or 3rd-party apps on Android, but I am very skeptical the
experience & results with those would be anywhere near as good).

~~~
on_and_off
by live photos you mean photos with a live 0.5 second video shot ?

Android has been having this for a pretty long while as well, at least on
pixel. Off the top of my head, no idea if this applies to the whole ecosystem
(might be pixel only, might be google camera only (so that would apply to any
phone where you can install this app) or it might even be a pixel feature but
tons of OEMs have already duplicated it (that's not exactly a recent feature
so I would not be surprised)

~~~
spanhandler
Oh, yeah, just DDG'd it because I was curious whether Android had it now and
all I could find were a bunch of "good news, now you can get live photos on
your Android phone with a third party app!" hits. Cool that they have it now,
too. AFAIK no stand-alone cameras have the feature, which is too bad.

------
ogre_codes
The argument here seems to be "It can replace an iPad and a phone", but I'm
not so sure it can replace either one.

Setting aside the fact that Android tablet software is still a bit of a mess,
are people going to want to watch movies and play games on a tablet with a big
crack in the middle? Even surfing the web, you can't really view a page well
in landscape. Likewise spreadsheets, word processing, etc

Apps like email which do well with multiple panes would be great, but only if
they can mind the gap.

So much of what I use the iPad for is full screen, I'm a bit skeptical about
how well those things translate to 2 half screens.

~~~
thelazydogsback
The "crack" doesn't bother me -- but then again, I'd never want to watch a
movie on anything less than a 15" screen anyway -- but I'm old I guess.

"Two apps at once" is good, but the winner to me is master-detail support in
all apps when it makes sense, without fussing around with child/popup windows,
tabs or dividers -- this is a huge productivity gain, IMHO. (E.g., email list
in bottom, selected email on top, etc.)

~~~
ogre_codes
> but the winner to me is master-detail support in all apps when it makes
> sense

Assuming all the apps in question support this view. I'm sure Microsoft's
tools will. Not sure about how many others.

> this is a huge productivity gain, IMHO.

Versus what? On an iPad/ tablet, you can have splits where it makes sense int
he interface. On this, you are stuck with the hardware split. Obviously it's
way better than a phone if that's your compare. So if your job can be done on
a phone, this is maybe the boss.

------
SimianLogic2
At $600-$800 I think I'd give it a go--basically an iPad Mini (a form factor
which I love) that folds up when not in use. I'm surprised they didn't show
more gaming applications. I think you could use half the screen as a
controller and the other half to play the games and that would be an upgrade
over most current touch controls.

------
A4ET8a8uTh0
Eh, I am underwhelmed. Android based device that appears to be overpriced
based on available stats ( starting $1399 ). I am not certain if MS learned
anything from Windows Mobile flop ( or learned the wrong lesson ).

Then again, I am not its target demographic. MS Surface line never entered my
consideration.

------
pjmlp
I love my Windows phones, but alongside Project Reunion this looks like a
capitulation that the Windows strategy for mobile devices is a lost battle.

Even Windows 10X now looks like it won't be coming as expected.

Given how the whole Android ecosystem works, in terms of updates and Java
support, is not as I would like, but I guess one needs to take such things how
they are and not how they could be.

So "Courier" could have been Windows, but it ended up being Android based.

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kumarharsh
I was very excited for it, but it is way too expensive (sensible, given the
experimental nature) and seems like US only (nonsensical)... Did the first
iPhone or Pixel launch in US only?

~~~
vondur
I agree, looks pretty cool, I was hoping for somewhere around $500 price
point.

~~~
w0m
500 I'd probably pre-order one if reviews were decent. 1400... ugh. :/

~~~
kumarharsh
I'll order 3 if it was for $500!!! (•‿•)

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mongol
It is Android, but is it Google's Android, with Play services etc?

~~~
etaioinshrdlu
The screenshot looks a good deal like any other Android device, but with Edge
instead of Chrome.

Is this Microsoft's first Android device?

~~~
Rebelgecko
I might be misremembering the chronology, but I think that the MS and Nokia
partnership/acquisition resulted in some Android devices

~~~
mongol
Did it? I think Android only appeared on Nokia after the brand was
resurrected, after Microsoft had exited it?

~~~
sp332
I didn't realize that. But there was at least the Nokia X, launched by MS in
2014 with a modified Android 4.1.2
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_X](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_X)

------
abdulla
I was really excited for this, I want to buy it and am willing to compromise
for 1st generation hardware. But no NFC means it impacts my life
substantially, from payments to public transport. I hope they reconsider the
lack of NFC for the next generation.

------
aloer
For context, this seems to be related to or inspired by the courier concept
from 10+ years ago:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Courier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Courier)

------
stunt
I guess you have to be a tablet user to really see the value. The fact that
tablet users have more screen realstate increases their desire to want more on
their screen. While for example I as a mobile user can't think of much use-
cases because I'm used to a different user experience and my expectations are
different.

I'm not sure if Microsoft strategy to call it a new device category instead of
tablet is effective though. I can imagine if Apple was doing it, they would
just call it a fold-able/dual-screen tablet.

------
karmakaze
Given the choice between this and the Surface Go 2, I'd take the latter--it
runs an OS that can run things I use. It's either have something less
convenient that's useful, or something that's more convenient but still
requires me to keep another device to use for some other things.

Maybe some day MS will make the Surface Duo run Android apps on a full OS, or
make enough changes to Android to make it a usable as a primary not
consumption-oriented device.

------
oliyoung
Still think one of the biggest "mistakes" pre-Satya Microsoft made was dumping
the Courier project, this is just that ten years later

------
kanobo
Interesting, has there been any reviews for this yet? All the screenshots look
like it's just two phones next to each other instead of one UI that takes
advantage of its unique form factor. I'm also surprised they don't use bing as
the default search engine in their screenshots, is that a aosp requirement?
Finally, this makes me want to dust off my nintendo ds.

~~~
withinboredom
I've played with the emulator, it's pretty neat, but I didn't get the point.

------
awiesenhofer
This (and the Galaxy Fold i guess) could be the perfect sysadmin/on-call
device - except for the price maybe. Small enough to carry around and use as a
normal phone day-to-day but offers actually usable screenspace for remote
sessions, docs, etc. if the need arises.

Also weirdly reminds me of the Sony Vaio P for some reason.

------
dgellow
Hmm, based on the last picture the pen seem to be an additional device on the
side, I don't see a way to attach it to the Duo itself via magnet or another
mechanism. Maybe a missed opportunity here, it's always annoying to have the
pen somewhere else when you need to use it.

------
Yhippa
As someone who has been using split screen on Android frequently as of late
this device is intriguing. The one thing I'm not sold on yet is the keyboard
but maybe I need to literally have it in my hands before I pass on it.

Price is definitely steep. They clearly know their market.

------
yodon
I want a Surface Single-o.

No need for a fragile and hard to hold hinge.

Just a phone with a screen the size of one side of that Duo, offering the
biggest single pane that will fit easily in the back pocket of a pair of
jeans.

Please.

~~~
indy
Surface Uno?

~~~
yodon
Surface Uno is the platform as a whole, not a single screen device
(unfortunately)

------
gowld
Why the bezel on the hinge? That's the one place you actually want an screen-
to-edge experience that is terrible on every non-folding phone.

------
ss3000
Since so many of the screenshots show them running a separate Android app on
each screen, I wonder if the apps themselves actually run simultaneously.

Or if it's like Android apps on my Chromebook where only a single active app
actually runs, while all other apps get suspended in the background, even if
they're visible.

The latter would make this concept pretty useless so I hope they actually
solved this and are planning on upstreaming the changes so all future devices
can benefit.

------
AdmiralAsshat
Wow, I didn't know I needed a phone with _two screens_ to be able to listen to
music while doing something else!

~~~
core-questions
Here I was using a _stereo_ to do that

------
RandomBacon
How long will it receive updates? How fast will those updates be pushed out?

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a2tech
When I first looked at this article I thought maybe I had slipped and time and
it was April 1st, but no, its a real product.

I'd love to know the chain of thought to this thing being created--what
problems was it supposed to solve, and for what kind of customer?

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war1025
Looks like a neat device.

I watched the ad for it, and the thing that stood out to me was I think the
"cast" was entirely female. I wonder if that was intentional?

Is there any reason this would be marketed at women specifically?

~~~
jeroenhd
The best I can come up with is the stereotype that women are better at
multitasking? Something sexist like that probably wouldn't work out well for
Microsoft so I doubt there's much behind it.

I'm not sure though, the commercial is a sort of story about a group of women
planning to go on a trip. That's entirely reasonable, I don't see what gender
has to do with the product. It's not like they sell a pink and a blue one for
girls and boys or anything.

~~~
sosborn
What's really interesting (scary? sad?) is that the "issue" would never come
up if the cast was all men.

~~~
war1025
I guess that was more what I was wondering.

Was the all-female cast intentional or just incidental to the team that worked
on the ad?

I think it's perfectly fine either way, but I was curious.

------
ntsplnkv2
Two screens and a hinge with mediocre OS - $1399.

Can't imagine this will be popular at all.

~~~
whywhywhywhy
What phone OS would you suggest they use? I mean they're using the worlds most
popular one.

~~~
ntsplnkv2
None - the product will be a failure, because it doesn't solve any problems.

A phone OS, then why not use a phone? Oh, bigger screen? Use a tablet. With
huge phones nowadays this just doesn't serve a market.

it's a glorified nintendo DS for 1399. Embarassing.

~~~
whywhywhywhy
Oh just do nothing then ok, just shut the company down I guess why bother. I
mean if it's not successful now it never will be right? Why even try.

You do realize a world existed before Apple made the iPod and the iPhone
right?

~~~
ntsplnkv2
Not even an attempt at a clever strawman.

Microsoft should focus on actual innovation. We've reached stagnation in SV -
it's all an adtech scam now. A bifold phone with no new technology. Just tape
it together and call it "innovation."

Apple is in a rut too, but Apple has released more interesting hardware than
microsoft has in ages. New Xbox - glorified gaming PC with no unique titles at
Launch. Halo Infinite had graphics from 2014. Windows 10 spies on you, has a
terrible dual infrastructure OS with newschool apps and old school control
panel.

Oh and I'm supposed to think Teams which really just stole ideas from everyone
else is innovative.

