
Lawyers eye NSA data as treasure trove for evidence in murder, divorce cases - llambda
http://redtape.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/20/19061109-lawyers-eye-nsa-data-as-treasure-trove-for-evidence-in-murder-divorce-cases?lite
======
just2n
From "it's only to catch terrorists, guys" to potentially "it's also used to
prove guilt in minor domestic cases."

I, for one, hope this succeeds. Maybe then we'll have a way to get the masses
to understand just how bad this surveillance state really is, for all of us.

~~~
colkassad
It's only a matter of time until this data is used for political means (see
the recent IRS story). All it will take is someone coming into power that
threatens the agency or its valued partners in any way. Then out comes the
embarrassing tweets or tax evasion evidence pulled from Amazon. This will only
become more easy as the young people of today become the Senators and
Presidential candidates of tomorrow.

~~~
fiatmoney
"Out comes the blackmail" is an optimistic scenario. More likely, it's quietly
made known that they have such information, and magically, their position
changes - with the public none the wiser.

~~~
rodgerd
Pretty much describes J Edgar Hoover's career. And why, once the Mob got dirt
on him, they were free to do as they pleased with no FBI interference.

------
malandrew
If I were on the jury, I would seek to nullify the jury for every single case
where the NSA refuses to provide the defense with the information they want or
where the prosecution uses NSA data to prove guilt.

The former because that data shouldn't be a one way street and the latter
because the NSA shouldn't have that data in the first place.

------
nl
A bigger concern will be that "Lawyers" will realize that the NSA data came
from internet companies and ISPs, and these companies often still have that
data.

There is no national security shield for that data....

"Lawyers" just need an enterprising startup to build a private version of
PRISM to do analysis and reporting on the data they extract from the companies
via court orders.

OTOH, my understanding is that the defence has a special right to this data in
criminal cases if the NSA has it because that means "the prosecutor" (ie, the
government) has the data.

 _" The NSA is not above the law. It's a government agency, just like every
other government agency. Just because it has this Harry Potter-like
disappearing cloak, it's still an agency that is subject to the law"_

Call me cynical, but I'm yet to be convinced that is the case at all.

------
ekm2
This reminds me of a facebook status update:

 _You character is only as good a your browsing history_

------
Shivetya
I am not worried about lawyers using these logs for evidence, I am more
concerned about other government agencies doing so. Its not like the IRS isn't
bad enough as it is.

Of course it could be just as much fun when employers demand access to this
data. Soon we will get a Citizens Privacy Bill of Rights which will protect us
from no one and codify the government's rights to continue as is.

~~~
coldcode
I'm more concerned over people buying this data from disgruntled or otherwise
compromised NSA employees or anyone else they hand the data to (like
contractors) to use for blackmail or other criminal enterprises.

------
powertower
I really don't get any of this.

These lawyers and courts are no more privileged to secret data from the NSA,
the military, or any of the other classified source today, then they were 1
year ago, 10 years ago, etc.

~~~
Alex3917
"The laws of evidence require that prosecutors turn over to the defense any
records they have that might help prove a suspect's innocence."

In other words, they were entitled to them 10 years ago, but now that they
know they exist they can actually request them.

~~~
powertower
Those courts and prosecutors have no access to classified datastores of the
NSA.

That data is classified and protected by law.

What you are quoting is completely something else, and just references the
data the prosecutors have on hand that is gathered and developed as part of
the investigation.

~~~
aqme28
The data is classified and protected by law, yes, but there are other equally
(or more important) laws that say the government is required to hand over all
potentially exculpatory evidence to the defendant.

Which law trumps? That's for the courts to decide.

~~~
Alex3917
Can't why to see Scalia argue as to why the government needs to put to death
people it knows are innocent.

------
dev1n
The data was collected without a warrant. It cannot be used in court.

~~~
rosser
IANAL, but I believe the "fruit of the poisoned tree" doctrine only ties the
hands of the State in criminal proceedings. The defense can put forth any
evidence or argument at all, provided it's in good faith, and not knowingly
false.

