
A Sharp Spike in Honeybee Deaths Deepens a Worrisome Trend - mtuncer
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/14/us/honeybees-mysterious-die-off-appears-to-worsen.html
======
mudil
I am a beekeeper. So, I care about bees. So before people start to throw that
idea that we are all going to die from lack of pollinators, let's look at the
facts. Here's a good start:

"What decline? The number of honeybee hives in the world is at a record high.
The number in Europe is higher than it was in the early 1990s when neonics
were introduced. Hive mortality in Britain was unusually low in the year
before the neonic ban. It’s a myth that honeybees are in dire straits." (Ref:
[http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/article4227789.ece](http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/article4227789.ece),
full article here: [http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/bees-and-
pesticides.asp...](http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/bees-and-
pesticides.aspx))

I am not saying we don't have problems. Varroa mites is a serious problem
(originally from Russia, where the spread of mites was controlled by long
winter/cold temps, it is now a world wide problem). We have other infections,
we have CCD, etc. But all in all, bees are just doing fine. Except that they
are being trucked all over the country to pollinate almonds, apples, etc etc.

Consider this. If bees were dying in such record numbers, wouldn't you see
significant rise in honey prices?

~~~
HillRat
Actually, honey prices have doubled since 2006 ([http://www.honey.com/honey-
industry/honey-industry-statistic...](http://www.honey.com/honey-
industry/honey-industry-statistics/unit-honey-prices-by-month-wholesale)).
That doesn't invalidate your other points, but there's definitely a sustained,
long-term rise in prices, though the exact driver is not necessarily CCD.

~~~
tptacek
Perhaps the better thing to look at is the cost of pollination services, or of
honey bee queens. It's pretty easy to find pollination prices online.

------
deepnet
Have you guys not banned Neonicotinoides yet ?

Since the UK ban my anecdotal evidence is loads more types of bumble bees in
my garden.

And I have not seen any 'confused' dying bees at all which was a regular sight
before the ban.

I would have thought the publication of the Nature paper that Bees seek out
fresh Neonicotinoid sprayings to get the maximum dose as they are totally
hooked on nicotine and so getting way above the dose the previous models
suggested would have sealed their fate in the US - but I guess not.

Are there any surveys which suggest numbers of bees and wild bees have
improved in Europe since the ban ?

Interesting that the scientific concern over Neonicotinoides is given
considerably less space than the industry 'facts'.

As there was a industry spokesperson AMAing on reddit about how pesticides
were not so bad for bees and this making the frontpage on HN - I expect some
well funded publicity machine is getting oiled up.

Is there some critical vote coming up or something ?

~~~
cjensen
You came close to the truth when you said "Are there any surveys which suggest
numbers of bees and wild bees have improved in Europe since the ban?"

The European Ban is a gigantic experiment. Either it will clearly demonstrate
that Neonicotinoides are a problem, or that they are a scapegoat.

The Europeans have a history of banning things without scientific evidence
like BGH and GMO. In this case it's a useful trait since their ban will
provide definitive answers.

~~~
jcbrand
Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack.

With something like GMO, it might take decades for the harmful effects to
become clear. Just like it took decades before people became aware of the
carcinogenic effect of cigarette smoking.

------
tptacek
Fun fact: wild honeybees in the US have been virtually extinct for a long
time; they were mostly wiped out by the Varroa mite starting in (IIRC) the
late '80s.

If you see an actual honeybee outside near your home, the odds are apparently
overwhelming that the bee is owned by someone.

~~~
anigbrowl
Someone owes me big time for all that pollen, then.

------
bsder
The real problem is that the agribusinesses (please don't refer to them as
farmers) are unwilling to make the changes to not require honeybees.

If they let about 10% of their acreage go wild, native bees come in and can
take over most of the load. However, that's more expensive, right now, than
continuing to use honeybees.

Until using honeybees gets expensive, agribusiness will not change.

------
late2part
Although the article suggests there's no fear for extinction, the continual
concerns worry me:

 _Professor Einstein, the learned scientist, once calculated that if all bees
disappeared off the earth, four years later all humans would also have
disappeared.

Abeilles et fleurs, June, 1965._

~~~
rgbrenner
Is that actually true though?

Here's a list of crops pollinated by bees:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_crop_plants_pollinated_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_crop_plants_pollinated_by_bees)

I don't see wheat, corn, or rice on there.

Here's a list of crops that don't need pollination:
[http://www.hortmag.com/plants/fruits-veggies/vegetable-
crops...](http://www.hortmag.com/plants/fruits-veggies/vegetable-crops-that-
do-not-need-pollinators)

    
    
      What veggies do not need pollinators to produce: 
      • All leafy greens
      • Brassicas: broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage and kohlrabi
      • Below ground root veggies and tubers such as carrots, parsnips, salsify, potatoes, sweet potatoes, horseradish
      • Ground level root veggies such as beets, turnips, rutabagas
      • Most legumes including peas and beans
      • Corn—like other wind pollinated veggies
      • Herbs, like the lemon balm pictured
      • Celery
      • Onions and leeks
    

That's a pretty good list of foods for humans to survive on.

~~~
late2part
I certainly don't know. Even if we could survive on just those foods, I'd
prefer life with more :-)

I suspect that if we looked at arable land and calories per year by different
crops, we'd find that your list can't support the dietary requirements for the
7B people.

But, I don't know that, I'm just speculating.

~~~
rgbrenner
The largest crops in the world are wheat, corn, and rice. None of which depend
on bees.

This article is interesting:
[http://www.ent.uga.edu/bees/OnEinsteinBeesandSurvivaloftheHu...](http://www.ent.uga.edu/bees/OnEinsteinBeesandSurvivaloftheHumanRaceHoneyBeeProgramCAESEntomologyUGA.html)

 _A recent analysis[ii] of yearly crop data maintained by the United Nations
Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) from 1961 to 2006 reached some
divergent conclusions and shed light on the interacting complexity of the
question “How important is animal-vectored pollination?”

The authors of the FAO analysis concluded that the proportion of global food
production attributable to animal pollination ranges from 5% in industrialized
nations to 8% in the developing world._

So I think we're going to be fine.

Also, it says there's no evidence Einstein actually said the quote.

------
joeyspn
> The European Commission has banned the use of three variants of the
> pesticide on flowering plants, citing risks to bees, and questioned whether
> they should be used at all.

There you have it...

~~~
cyphunk
As a side note regulation in agriculture is one area in particular that
concerns europeans over the possible TTIP trade agreement. The EU and US have
fundamentally different approaches to such regulation with the EU siding on
more regulation when there is a potential risk and the US waiting for a clear
block of evidence before introducing regulation.

------
brohoolio
I was talking with folks at my work who raise bees and they pulled out a list
of the stuff you could buy at Lowes or Home Depot with neonics and I was
surprised how many brands and various types have them. People just don't
realize how wide spread the stuff is.

