
Ask HN: Should I Ask for Promotion? - naikas
I am happy and fully charged to work for my current employer. As a PM, I am tasked to create new products&#x2F;services and responsible for their growth. I feel I am working more than my title prescribes. So, do I ask my manager to promote me? Or do I keep working with the same energy and let the performance &quot;speak&quot;?
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Jemaclus
In my experience, _you don 't get what you don't ask for_. In other words,
your work/performance rarely "speaks" for itself. If you believe your work is
representative of a promotion, then you should absolutely talk to your boss
about it. Even if they say "no", you can follow up with "what do I need to get
there?" and demonstrate a willingness to grow and level up in the
organization. That can kickstart a process where your boss is _actively_
helping you get a promotion. (Assuming they're a good boss...)

For now, I recommend compiling a list of achievements and work that you've
done that illustrates your growth. When you have this conversation, your job
is so sell yourself as worthy of a promotion. You can't just say "I'm working
more". That won't fly. But you can say "In the last 6 months, I've
accomplished X, Y, and Z. I proactively identified problems M and N, and
recruited Joe and Sally to develop a solution, then implemented it within six
weeks. This solution saved/made the company $A, and increased productivity by
B%." Numbers and data generally speak more than words.

Another piece of advice that a former boss told me is "don't ask, tell". I'm
not sure I'm 100% on board with this, but the idea is that you go in with
something like "I've done all of these things (see above), and it's time for
me to move up to the next level and get a promotion to Senior Whatever." This
shows confidence and assertiveness, which is generally a good thing the more
senior you get. I'm not 100% convinced this works, but it has worked with me
for the last few bosses I've had, so... YMMV.

Good luck.

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naikas
Great piece of advice. I like the "don't ask, tell". The reason I got a little
disappointed in "asking" is that in previous 2 attempts the promotion got
delayed because of stupid reorgs, the managers changed. I took it upon me to
build the case again. That took time (at lease a year), and eventually I
thought maybe it makes no sense, rather just wait till someone realizes. But I
get your point. Thank you :)

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Blakestr
Piggybacking on this (slight point on semantics but still important in terms
of framing the discussion)

Don't tell them, SHOW them. The advice about displaying all of those things,
almost like metrics or hitting a benchmarks is key.

There is some obvious psychology at play here - for some bosses it might be
more effective to present everything in one fell swoop so you build an
ironclad case with no room to argue. Another might be to either build up this
proof over a course of a few weeks and mention another point and another
project. With deeply held beliefs, it takes time to change one's mind and
seems like a rare thing to convert someone instantly. (The question is here,
how deeply does the boss believe OP does NOT deserve a promotion)

Another critical point is the company structure and finance. Is there
bureaucracy the limiting fact and there simply isn't an open position? Or is
the company small enough they can simply make one? To me this would be the
biggest obstacle to find a way around/through.

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a-saleh
It depends?

I.e. when I worked at a fairly large multinational (around 10k headcount), the
only time I got promoted was when I explicitly started asking along the lines:
"I like the sound of 'senior engineer', how do I get there?"

But there was a process. Maybe you don't have a process.

W.r.t. 'having your performance speak' I would suggest looking at it as
'building your case' rather than 'I am working a lot, right?'

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naikas
Yes. But whenever I try to build a case, my mental model tells me that its not
the right time. I think of all counter arguments (company revenue is down, my
product is still in infancy,etc.), and I tend to postpone it. Why can't it be
discussed as a process (e.g. regular review session likes hey, I see you are
very close to be promoted to senior manager, let us discuss it in details the
next meeting). I mean that my manager should be as aware of it, as I am.

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james_impliu
Doing lots of your current job != exhibiting you will succeed at the sorts of
tasks if you were promoted, which is why if you are great at a certain job you
can get stuck doing it, especially if you're a bit understaffed which I guess
you are if you're doing a ton of extra work to keep up.

Can you pick up / start doing work that'd make it clearer you could be a
leader (assuming that's what the next step looks like) without dropping the
ball?

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claudiulodro
If you can actually repeatedly and successfully create and grow new products
and services, I would start your own company.

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naikas
I am working on that, too ;)

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CameronBarre
Like a-saleh says, about 'building your case', you want to position yourself
such that it's undeniable you are producing more value with your time. Point
out that there has plainly been a shift in the value of your time for the
organization.

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tucaz
You can probably ask for anything you want. I would doubt, however, that
anyone would give you anything unless they a have reason to do so.

Like an outside offer.

Why would I, as a company, promote you and give you more money when no one
else wants you? I have no incentive to do so.

I’m sure wouldn’t do it out of the good of my heart. That doesn’t exist.
People may try to make you think like such thing exists and you might get a
promotion from time to time but that is a fraction of what you would get if
someone else was interested in you.

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caseyscottmckay
Yes, make people say no.

That said, switching jobs is generally the best/easiest way to move up.

