
Playing action video games may be bad for your brain – loss of grey matter - rhschan
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/shooting-video-games-health-1.4237361
======
QAPereo
Non-sensationalist headline:

 _A subsequent randomised longitudinal training experiment demonstrated that
first-person shooting games reduce grey matter within the hippocampus in
participants using non-spatial memory strategies._

And the rest of it, which changes the whole character of the article...

 _Conversely, participants who use hippocampus-dependent spatial strategies
showed increased grey matter in the hippocampus after training. A control
group that trained on 3D-platform games displayed growth in either the
hippocampus or the functionally connected entorhinal cortex. A third study
replicated the effect of action video game training on grey matter in the
hippocampus. These results show that video games can be beneficial or
detrimental to the hippocampal system depending on the navigation strategy
that a person employs and the genre of the game._

[http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/mp201715...](http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/mp2017155a.html?foxtrotcallback=true)

Interesting study, terrible article.

~~~
karlkatzke
So does that mean that people who play games that have maps and that keep the
maps in their heads _develop_ grey matter, but people who just blindly run
around the map and don't learn where things are will _lose_ grey matter?

What games DON'T require spatial memory? I'm having a hard time thinking of
one.

~~~
tedajax
A lot of modern games that offer convenience features like GPS navigation in
GTA or the quest markers in Skyrim. I prefer playing GTA with the GPS turned
off because it forces me to actually learn the lay of the land.

~~~
mch82
Trying to do this on my Zelda: Breath of the Wild master mode replay. Turned
on the "Pro" HUD, which deactivates the map and requires more geography and
landmark based navigation... surprisingly fun.

~~~
setr
My experience with this kind of thing (like turning off quest markers in
oblivion/skyrim) is that the game has been designed with quest markers in
mind, and by turning them off the navigation systems stop making much sense.
ie the map lacks "natural" markers, and because quest markers exist large view
distance isnt very nexessary (and thus non-optimized) so the only larger
objects to use can't be seen from a far distance, and the map is just
generally designed without interconnectivity or even proper consistency,
because the connections are through the markers.

Games depending on such GPS systems tend to be significantly hampered by its
removal (which makes sense), and thus such basic removal is rarely a
sufficient fix.

The only reason I'd imagine BotW might work fine is that Nintendo has made
open(ish) world games before, and as far as I can remember, have never made
much use of such systems. More likely than not, the game was designed without
markers, and markers added after the fact; which is clearly untrue of most
other modern open-world games

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hashberry
It's more than video games:

\- Becoming pregnant reduces grey matter[0].

\- Watching porn reduces grey matter[1].

\- Heavy use of Facebook reduces grey matter[2].

\- Tweeting while watching TV reduces grey matter[3]. etc etc etc.

[0] [https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/12/pregnancy-brain-
mean...](https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/12/pregnancy-brain-means-
reductions-in-grey-matter-for-new-mothers/)

[1] [http://www.iflscience.com/brain/researchers-find-
association...](http://www.iflscience.com/brain/researchers-find-association-
between-porn-viewing-and-less-grey-matter-brain/)

[2]
[http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166432817...](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166432817305090)

[3] [https://www.fastcompany.com/3036198/people-who-jump-from-
scr...](https://www.fastcompany.com/3036198/people-who-jump-from-screen-to-
screen-have-less-grey-matter-in-one-brain-region-s)

~~~
FRex
Coming soon: living reduces grey matter?

~~~
hashberry
Yep. Teens (ages 13-8) lose 1 percent of their grey matter every year[0].

[0]
[http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/teenbrain/work...](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/teenbrain/work/adolescent.html)

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tpaschalis
In contrast, I would like to point out another research paper [0] about the
possible "Cognitive benefits of computer games for older adults". I think that
it's fascinating that we're living in a world of evolving, new art and
entertainment forms.

[0]
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4130645/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4130645/)

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b_ttercup
I think what they're describing isn't related to video games. It's just that
using your brain a certain way makes it better at that type of task. The idea
that playing Mario 64 improves the spatial reasoning isn't surprising because
most levels are large and open and require spatial reasoning whereas first
person shooters often featured tight, indoor corridors where the player cannot
observe landmarks easily from different locations and must therefore hardcore
directions into their memory.

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adrianm
The study is interesting but I find the term ‘action game’ too imprecise to
actually be useful. Having just skimmed through the paper it seems like what
they actually experimented with were highly linear games which require little
to no perceptual mapping of the world into memory because you do not have to
backtrack much or at all. But that is an artifact of that particular games
linear level design, it has nothing to do with ‘action’.

------
unabridged
From the study:

"Thirteen first-person shooting games from the Call of Duty, Battlefield,
Killzone, Medal of Honor and Resistance: Fall of Man series were chosen based
on their highly similar gameplay tasks and demands. Participants only played
the single player campaigns and did not play any multiplayer components of the
games."

Single player for most of these games is very boring and requires little
thinking. They need to add another category to this study where they are
playing competitive multiplayer fps. Maybe even specifically strategy game
types like capture the flag.

~~~
icanhackit
Agreed. The thrill of playing real opponents who quickly learn from patterns
in your behaviour forces you to constantly adjust while also observing their
unique behaviours which can be used to your own advantage. Far more
challenging and requires on-the-fly tactics and strategies. I'd be quite
surprised if multiplayer games didn't lead to more brain matter.

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TremendousJudge
wow imagine if john carmack hadn't played all those videogames

~~~
giblaz
I get the feeling software engineers are going to end up net positive in grey
matter regardless of their gaming habits just because of the nature of the
job.

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shahbaby
"After 90 hours of playing first-person shooter games..."

90 hours in the gym @ 3 hours / week = 7.5 months of exercise

At this point one expect to see physical changes in the mirror.

Why would it be any different in the brain?

A much broader implication may be that dedicating around 90 hours to something
is the point at which your brain will start to show physical signs of
adaptation.

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kylestlb
It would be interesting to study what other activities trigger 'response
learning' \- I would imagine most sports?

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neverminder
So what about strategy games then, such as Civilization?

~~~
Aissen
I'll be right back, I'll go spend 4 years with two full time jobs, and dozens
of training groups in order to answer this question. And then I'll have a non-
definitive, very specific answer you probably didn't expect and which will
raise more questions than it answers. Science is hard.

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joshdance
News articles about scientific studies may be wrong, misconstrued, misleading,
or not statistically significant.

~~~
Froyoh
I expected better from CBC.

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RodericDay
In my experience, FPS enthusiasts do tend to manifest some pretty bad traits
that are less common among other types of gamers. Interesting.

Especially stuff related to "race realism" and various forms of sexism.

~~~
Fifer82
I will never forget being verbally abused for the first time on xmas day 1996
Doom Deathmatch. Funny stuff, about 2 minutes of insults and death threats.

The sad thing is nowadays this is bullying, sexist, racist, trolling and so
on. It just made me laugh. I think the trash talk was always in this
community.

~~~
abootstrapper
It was bullying, sexist, racist, trolling back then too.

~~~
Fifer82
I disagree. I am pretty sure that the guys saying they wanted me to die didn't
actually want me to die. It was just a way to taunt.

It is absolutely ridiculous that someone who has never seen me, met me, know
where I live, any of my history, my sexuality, my family can possibly achieve
any of emotion that could ever be taken seriously enough to be considered
bullying. It is stretching the term almost far enough to be meaningless.

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such_a_casual
I'll take my chances clickbait.

