
Valve brings non-game software to Steam - AndrewDucker
http://www.neowin.net/news/steam-to-challenge-windows-store-by-offering-non-gaming-software
======
gddr
I hate Steam's DRM. People keep trying to convince people that it does not
actually require an Internet connection and all that. Try using it for 6
months with a 0.2 Mbps connection that gets randomly cut every 5-10 seconds.
It can literally take 10 minutes "Preparing to launch" a game. I really hope
it doesn't expand to other software.

The funniest part is: "Could not connect to Steam network. Start in Offline
Mode?". You answer yes. "Error: could not connect to Steam network. This
operation cannot be completed in Offline Mode". Maximum trollgaben.

~~~
thereallurch
.2Mbps...maybe that's your real problem? DRM is here to stay, and internet drm
is increasingly popular. Maybe time to upgrade your connection?

~~~
laserDinosaur
"Maybe time to upgrade your connection?"

While I've no idea of the other guys situation, "suggestions" like this really
boil my blood. A huge portion of people serving in the milatary, people in
crappy college dorms, people working in hotels, people in rural areas, people
in countries that are still building infrastructure, all these people can't
just _decide_ to get faster internet. It's elitest, rude, and completely
ignores a real issue many people don't have a choice but to put up with.

~~~
thereallurch
Sure, sometimes you don't have a choice. But saying progress cant be made
because it cant accommodate the edge cases is absurd. Dont like Steams DRM?
Dont use it. But dont bitch about it because you _cant use it properly_.

~~~
jokermatt999
When I bought the games I did on Steam, I was under the impression that it had
a functional offline mode. After all, when I'd used it before, it was
reliable. But since, the few times when I've tried it, it's failed. It's made
me partly regret the purchases I've made, because I thought they would be
available offline but now are not.

Again, you don't know people's situation. It's arrogant to criticize (edit:
without having better information). "Bitching" about a poorly implemented
system is entirely valid. Pardon me for foolishly believing the "Play offline"
button would allow me to play my games offline, but it is labelled exactly as
such.

------
duaneb
It's interesting to see how this plays out. Valve + general purpose software
distribution + linux ports + hardware speculation - Valve seems like the
biggest proponent for general purpose, open computing these days (open in the
sense of being able to do what you want with your computer). Could Valve be a
valid mainstream competitor for the personal computer market? Not all
computing can be done from a tablet or console.

~~~
franzus
> open

yeah ... if only there wasn't that problem with valve not accepting everybody
on their platform :)

~~~
duaneb
That's a good point. I just assumed that because Gabe decried the windows app
store lockin for ARM he would play nice on his own platform. I'm not sure if
this would be true or not.

~~~
Dylan16807
Curated stores are fine and dandy as long as they're not mandatory.

------
jtchang
This kind of got me thinking: What would it take for me to try my hand at
developing a desktop app today?

I am a developer. For the most part I've been doing web applications (with a
bit of mobile). This is mostly because I feel there isn't any money to be made
in desktop apps. Piracy, distribution, etc. Lots of headaches.

Could this change things? Possibly. Just like Java which was download once,
run everywhere (haha kidding) we could have apps that are "uniplatform" (yeah
I just made up a new word). I buy the app and it is good for desktop, mobile,
web. It might give slightly different experiences but my data is still all the
same in the back.

One of the closest apps I can think of like this is Google Chat/Talk. I can
start a conversation in a web browser window, reply using Pidgin, and finish
off a conversation on my Android. It is relatively seamless.

~~~
pizza
Even better; a Steam application API: write code once and it's available on
any Steam-able OS. Cloud storage and desktop power and a huge userbase would
make this a tasty platform.

~~~
pooriaazimi
How would that be any different than Java?! Of course, except from the fact
that Java lacked the distribution channel.

IMO, That's horrible - nightmare scenario. As a Mac user, I _hate_ nothing
more than cross-platform apps. They're ugly and lack almost all the features
that makes OS X a great _user_ operating system.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
You mean like iTunes and Safari?

Because Windows users think the same of cross-platform Mac apps.

~~~
pooriaazimi
Exactly. But they weren't "cross-platform Mac apps". They were poorly-done
"ports" (i.e. the UI code was not shared).

iTunes is garbage on all platforms, and its update is long overdue. But Safari
(4.0+) is great on OS X. I use it as my main browser (and find it vastly
superior to Chrome or Firefox 3.6+ for my needs). The windows port of Safari
(which has been discontinued recently, incidentally) was always horrible, much
below the standard of Windows apps, and far below the standard of OS X apps.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
They were ports?

The fact iTunes needed "Apple Application Support", and ran on Carbon, made me
think as a Windows user it wasn't changed much from the Mac versions.

EDIT: Huh, iTunes has since moved on from Carbon.

------
prezjordan
I'm really hoping for a steam redesign. I find the UI to be slow and
unresponsive. Hopefully something native (on Windows, Mac, AND now Linux)
comes out in the near future.

~~~
Serplat
It's also extremely buggy on the Mac, at least. I can't count the number of
times dropdown menus have shown up behind everything else.

~~~
rip_kirby
They've been improving lately.

Use to drive me nuts when I want a quick game of Bit Trip Runner, the loading
time to start up and login then go to the library might take longer than one
quick stage.

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geuis
Why is the comparison being made just between Steam and Microsoft's app store?
MS hasn't yet launched their service and what it's uptake will be is yet to be
known. Alternately, we have the Mac App Store. It's been around for a while,
has a huge uptake, and many developers already have data on how successful (or
not) they've been. While Macs are only ~20% of the desktop/laptop market, it's
a very lucrative segment.

I would like to see a comparison with how Valve will compete or cooperate with
an existing, proven desktop marketplace rather than speculation on something
that hasn't launched yet.

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graylights
Steam isn't just distribution but also offers a lot of features that could
translate to apps:

    
    
      1. Cloud based saves could become file/settings syncing
      2. Steam Workshop for users to publish plugins and addons
      3. Friends/groups/IM, invite to MP game could become invite to teleconference.
      4. Authentication (OpenID)
    

But if my app has file associations and user isn't logged on to steam. When
they double click the associated filetype will they have to login to steam
before my app can open it?

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citricsquid
What's interesting is a few weeks back Gabe said that Microsoft were doing bad
things with Windows 8, I wonder if this is what got his goat? Steam (I assume)
invested a lot in getting software companies on board but if Microsoft had
their own app store all this work would be for nothing.

<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18996377>

~~~
james4k
On the other hand, it's been clear that Windows 8 would have an app store for
about a year.

[http://www.technolog.msnbc.msn.com/technology/technolog/wind...](http://www.technolog.msnbc.msn.com/technology/technolog/windows-8-will-
have-its-own-app-store-121250)

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nwmcsween
I lost respect for valve after they slam windows 8 as garbage without merit
and then open a direct competitor to microsoft's app store.

~~~
DigitalJack
Steam pre-dates Microsoft's app store, Apple's app store by a large margin.
It's been around for quite a while. Since 2002 I believe.

You make it sound as if they just opened it.

~~~
seabee
Every other app store has games, too - with the reasonable assumption that
Windows' app store would too, Microsoft established themselves as a competitor
to Steam a year ago.

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ja2ke
This will dilute the hell out of what I actually use Steam for -- video games.

The Steam front page, though it may seem a little sloppy or insane, is
extremely successful at pointing me to games I am interested in, at a cheap
price. It's going to get weird, and very nebulous, if a copy of Adobe Premiere
is up there in the hot picks slider along with Assassin's Creed 3.

~~~
elliottcarlson
It would shock me if they didn't have separate sections to account for just
that. They (hopefully) aren't going to alienate the over 40 million user base
they have when currently everyone is expecting to see games there.
Productivity related desktop applications will not make sense to a large chunk
of those users.

~~~
ja2ke
It's brand diluting all the same, though. I guess they (probably correctly)
see that they are doing a lot of things right with online purchases/downloads
that other places aren't, but part of what I think they are doing right is
having and keeping focus. Of course, people said the same thing when Amazon
stopped just selling books, and that worked out alright for them.

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jiggy2011
Valve are going to compete head on with Microsoft then? That's pretty ballsy.
Let's hope steam is not left a smouldering corpse.

~~~
ddt
It's hard to envision this being an extinction event for Steam. Microsoft has
just never been able to get people onboard in the way that Valve has with PC
game distribution platforms. GFWL was/is a disaster that ended up being more
trouble than it was worth. I could see Steam having to back out of software
distribution, but I can't imagine Steam dying in the foreseeable future. Not
with tens of millions of users voluntarily and enthusiastically locked into
the platform.

~~~
jiggy2011
I think users can be fickle about these things, MS just has to make sure their
store tactically undercuts Valve's on some popular products and they could
steal a lot of users.

MS also has a trump card here in the form of the Xbox, they can make their
Windows stuff integrate with it very well for example allowing you to buy a
game once and make it playable on both your PC and your Xbox, or to transfer
save games between each etc. Microsoft can also demand Windows Store
exclusivity for games to also appear on the Xbox.

~~~
ddt
Users are fickle, but this play was tried by EA with Origin. You can get them
onboard with the big titles like Battlefield 3, but they've been less
successful at getting users to buy titles from smaller publishers. Steam
offers a better deal to small publishers, and is actively engaged in the
community in a way that I doubt Microsoft can replicate.

As for Xbox-PC game interoperability, that would be interesting. I know
multiplayer between the two platforms has been ruled out, but transferring
from one to another might be attractive. It also makes you wonder why they
haven't done it. Games built for the XBLA are written in XNA and can be played
with minimal adjustment on Windows. But practically every XBLA-PC success I
can think of (Bastion, Orcs Must Die, Limbo, etc.) has been put onto Steam.
Makes you wonder why Microsoft isn't already mandating XBLA games be ported
into Games for Windows Live if they go to PC.

~~~
petitmiam
> I know multiplayer between the two platforms has been ruled out

Thanks for pointing that out. I had thought CS:GO was going to be cross-
platform Xbox/PC, but it's not anymore.

[http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-26-ps3-cs-go-
suppo...](http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-26-ps3-cs-go-supports-
keyboard-and-mouse)

------
saturdaysaint
I like the idea of a strong platform independent player. I like being in a
position where I can switch between Mac and PC fairly painlessly - I like OSX,
but sometimes I want the price/performance of a PC tower. The number of
critical platform exclusive apps continues to dwindle for me, so a centralized
market that minimizes lock-in sounds fantastic.

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seanalltogether
I'm still unclear how you submit an app to their store? If I have an app with
a mac and pc build that I want to submit, what do I do?

~~~
Foy
I guess you could try reaching out to one of the many indie developers on
Steam.

Anyhow, what I suspect though, is that Steam isn't going to become some "app
store" like the current Android and Apple ones, rife with fart apps and other
useless things. I suspect it would stay highly curated.

For example you don't see hundreds of amateur flash games on Steam, everything
is cherry picked which makes for a great consumer experience. I know that any
game I buy off Steam is going to be of high quality.

This has the added benefit of not having any of those "scammer" apps around.
You know, those apps that get purchased by any and all hacked Apple accounts
just to get pushed to the top of the app store.

