
Why You Should Move To Berlin - maneesh
http://maneeshsethi.com/blog/7-reasons-you-should-move-to-berlin-today/
======
hugh3
I must say, that's the most aggravating site I've read recently.

It's bad enough to start off the page by begging me to give it my email
address (how about no?). But then I start scrolling down and... bingo, black
screen and _another_ begging for my email address. Sure, I could track down
that little "close" button, but it's easier to close the tab and make a mental
note to never look at the site again.

~~~
pwpwp
the horror

------
julian37
I love Berlin, but please let's cut the hyperbole:

 _Beautiful nature, lakes, canals, and parks_

It's a pretty city, in some parts, but "Europe's greenest city" is just
bullshit. And maybe technically there are more canals than in Venice and
Amsterdam, but in reality you'll find that you have to walk quite a bit to get
from one canal to the next, where in Venice and Amsterdam they are a defining
part of the city.

 _Berlin’s central location makes it easy to travel around Europe_

Around Eastern Europe, yes. Travelling to the UK, France, Spain, Italy, or
Switzerland is easier from other parts of the continent.

 _The amazing, delicious döner kebabs_

I like kebabs as much as the next guy and it's probably true that you can get
the best ones in Berlin, but let's be honest, it's drunk food and often made
from questionable ingredients.

That said, there really is lots of awesome food in Berlin in all price
categories and from all the cuisines of the world. In fact, eating out in
Berlin is such a great experience in general that I'm not sure why kebabs
deserve special mention.

Again, I love Berlin and maneesh's other points hold true, I just don't think
it needs to be glorified beyond what it is -- a wonderful, amazing city that
isn't the most pretty one and isn't really the very best location in Europe in
terms of climate and travelling options.

@maneesh: don't take this the wrong way, glad to hear you've had a great time,
sounds like a lot of fun!

~~~
sneak
I think you've got it wrong.

I live in a 1750 square foot penthouse apartment (two floors, 14' ceilings,
hardwood throughout), with easy access to two different subway lines (U8 and
the S41/42 ring). I can be anywhere in the inhabited part of the city in under
25 minutes.

I pay $1400/month. That's $9/sqft/year, or $0.80/sqft/month. Did I mention
that's including heat?

Berlin is a world-class city. There are several authorized Apple service
centers (and they're building an Apple Store right now), Canon service
centers, and big box retailers. There are great restaurants and hotels and
conference centers and such because it's the federal capital, and all the
embassies and consulates are here, this country being the largest economy in
the EU.

I defy you to find me another city in the first world where one can live so
cheaply, with access to the benefits of a truly world-class city such as
Berlin has. It's simply not possible (and indeed, in the trendiest parts of
town, rents have gone up 100% in the last 5-7 years).

It won't last, but we've got at least 3-7 years left before it turns into
another stuffy expensive boring German city.

~~~
sudont
"3-7 years left"

Check the date on this: <http://catandgirl.com/?p=1129>

I've got a couple grand and weeks for traveling. When and what's good?

~~~
sneak
Yeah, it's been here for the last 8 or 9 years, ever since New York got all
cleaned up and destroyed its techno scene.

Examples include Hawtin, Adam X, Function, Plaslaiko, Visionquest, etc - the
list goes on.

It truly is an amazing city... and yes, it does move around.

------
tobiasu
Couldn't read the article as the server is overloaded. But I have some
thoughts about the headline. This may contain some hyperbole, you have been
warned.

I don't understand Berlins appeal. It has one fatal flaw: no industry. In my
opinion the great parts of Germany are where the world-famous "Mittelstand"
sits. Is that in Berlin? I would argue it's not. Berlin is called "the city of
students, the unemployed and cab drivers" by many, and probably not without
reason.

Berlin is our hipster-central. However German engineers much prefer the living
standards of Bavaria or BW instead of getting their Audi/BMW/Merc torched and
their property vandalized. You're not getting lots of these people to move to
Berlin. Big (US) IT corps know this, almost all of them have their
headquarters in the south.

Now, if you're after 20somethings with no family, low income expectations and
you build webapps using $WhateverIsCoolOnHN that targets other 20somethings
around the globe - sure, go to Berlin. But then why don't you start wherever
you are and get going instead of looking for another excuse that delays your
product?

If your business plan even remotely involves selling goods or services to
companies, you've chosen the wrong spot of Germany. The same is true for
finances, Berlin is constantly broke and banks cling on to their money for
obvious reasons.

And if your business plan involves pushing lots of data, you should be in
Frankfurt.

~~~
organico
Well, don't you sound bitter and boring.

~~~
dmooray
I'd guess you're one of the 20somethings he's talking about, right?

As someone who lives in Berlin for more than 4 years, involved in IT, I can
definitely says he is 100% right. I would say Munich is the place to if you
want do to something in this industry.

~~~
xtracto
Munich, Stuttgart, Hamburg or Hanover. I am a postdoc in CS who is looking to
get into industry and my wife is in manufacturing. As much as we wish to go to
Berlin, it is very difficult for her to find a relevant job in manufacturing
there.

All our German friends have recommended us Stuttgart as _the_ place to be for
industry.

------
knb
I live near Berlin. There is much wisdom in this essay on startups written by
Paul Graham in 2006:

<http://www.paulgraham.com/siliconvalley.html>

Quote: "I think you only need two kinds of people to create a technology hub:
rich people and nerds. "

Regarding Nerds: There are certainly a lot of nerds in Berlin. Are they elite
technology geeks? Maybe. But lots of such nerds are willing to move to Berlin.
Check passed.

Regarding Rich people/investors: There are actually relatively few rich people
in Berlin. (Berlin is so cheap for a reason: it is a very poor city). So this
key success factor is still underrepresented. Check NOT passed.

Just sayin'.

Don't expect too much.

~~~
Jd
I live in Munich and just the opposite is true -- well, sort of. We've got
lots of nerds and plenty of money but not much entrepreneurial activity. Too
sedentary -- but why?

~~~
HSO
Good question. I'm a Berliner but am currently "stuck" (long story) in Munich.
It's got everything: stuff just works, everything's clean, safe and pretty,
lots of money around, and one of the best technical universities in Germany to
boot. And yet, and yet, something is missing.

From what little I know, it appears that the more "dynamic" people move to
Berlin to _entreprendre_ something, and the less adventurous (dare I say
"corporate"-type) ones stay or come here to work for BMW et al. This is
regardless of their talent or capability, btw, it's just my subjective
impression of personality types.

As for me, I'm torn between my old hometown and Zurich so Munich might be a
good compromise even if I get unstuck but we'll see ;-)

~~~
Jd
You are completely right -- and it's really too bad because some combination
of the two would be ideal. I wonder if it is easier to start a "startup
culture" in Munich or a "get stuff working" culture in Berlin. I guess since
I'm also "stuck" in Munich for the moment myself I'd prefer to work on moving
things forward in here (hosting hackathons, etc.)

btw, what makes you think Zurich would be better?

~~~
HSO
> what makes you think Zurich would be better?

Zurich is just a personal preference because I studied and lived a long time
in Switzerland. If you drew a cultural and demographic vector from Berlin
through Munich to Zurich, you'd have a pretty good picture of what Zurich is
like. If that sounds like a mixed bag, that's because it is. ;-) Even richer,
even better working, but also even stuffier. I love it there but that's
because many of my friends are there.

What is true, though, is that Switzerland has a better business culture and
regulatory/tax environment. People work quite hard, they are very rational and
pragmatic in business matters, and the universities there are, unlike the
German ones, truly world class. I'd also wager, although I've not (yet?) tried
myself, that it will be easier to raise capital from Swiss investors than from
Munich-based ones (and Berlin, as someone already mentioned, doesn't really
have serious capital floating around).

It's all a wash though, I'm sure that these generalities have marginal impact
on whatever you or I do or decide. At the end of the day, sitting in Munich,
you're a productive 4h train ride away from Zurich and a 6h train ride from
Berlin.

------
jiggy2011
Berlin is an awesome city, I had the chance to spend a week or so there a few
years back and it's one of the few places I would consider moving overseas to
live.

There is a big difference though between west berlin and the ex-communist east
berlin , for one thing expect to pay around twice as much for a beer in west
as in east.

The public transport system as well as any municipal services we used whilst
there were a model of legendary German efficiency, not to mention cheap as
transport is subsidized by the state.

The nightlife is excellent but I certainly advise chatting to the local
partygoers (most are friendly enough) as they will know the more cool out of
the way places to go.

Beer is also very cheap in east berlin , especially from supermarkets and
drinking it on the streets or public transport is not the taboo that it is in
the UK and other places.

The general vibe of the nightlife I experienced was quite different to Britain
with much more sensibly paced drinking going on throughout the night and a
generally social , jovial atmosphere unlike UK Cities which seem to cater
increasingly to insular gangs of drunks who go out ingest large amounts of
lager so quickly they throw up whilst they go on the hunt for fights or casual
back-alley sex.

And those Doner kebabs sure look allot more appetizing than the ones found in
takeaways in Britain.

~~~
metachris
Two other significant downsides of Berlin are that there are no mountains
around, and it's so far north it's rather cold and the days are very short
during winter.

~~~
sneak
There's a symmetry to it - in the summer it's light until 23:30 and dawn
happens at around 3.

------
maigret
Germany is the land of tech startups. But not Web technologies. Germany is
predominantly engineering based. And the industry is more in the south.

Germany is ideal if you want to work on the latest car assistant systems, on
technologies for building the next generation skyscrapers in Dubai and China,
or on green technologies. Programming is often a byproduct of those
development, but those are interesting fields non the less.

~~~
bad_user
So what cities in Europe are good for software developers? Where are the hubs?

~~~
erikstarck
In Stockholm, programmer is the most common profession of all. More common
than teachers, nurses etc. Also, Copenhagen/Malmö is nice.

------
rb2k_
I'm German myself and I'm always cringing a bit when it comes to German
statups. At least in the past most of the 'bigger' ones were copies of already
existing ideas and there is always the ones that seem to be afraid of new
technology ("we use j2ee, oracle and hibernate"). Could somebody name a few
successful Berlin (or German) startups besides soundcloud?

~~~
spahl
<http://www.6wunderkinder.com/> is one example.

~~~
derwildemomo
So far, 6wunderkinder delivered a todo-list app for several platforms.
Wunderkit is yet to be delivered, and I just don't see how a free app that is
used by some people can be stated as "successful", especially given the fact
that the most visible competitors, Things and Omnifocus are premium-priced.
Spread: Certainly. Success: Menotreallysure.

~~~
jannes
At least Things is also from Germany
<http://culturedcode.com/about/impressum.html>

~~~
derwildemomo
Yes, but cultured code is not presenting themselves as if it were the hottest
new startup ( they are btw not in berlin but in stuttgart ), they have just
created an awesome app.

------
eogas
>Welcome Hacker News Reader!

>You should subscribe to my blog via email below...

Hello Maneesh. You have just guaranteed that I will never visit your blog
again.

------
moeffju
I love Berlin, but I recommend Hamburg over Berlin. Here in Hamburg, we don't
have super-cheap housing, but there is one big advantage: Lots of capital. I'm
currently working hard on getting more entrepreneurial and startup events
going in Hamburg, because every time you talk to people from abroad and
mention you're a startup in Germay, they all go "Oh, Berlin?" No, actually, we
have several nice cities. Hamburg probably has the highest quality of life
(compared to Berlin, Munich and Frankfurt). Berlin is fun if you like the
scruffy look and hopping from one thing to the next, Hamburg is better if you
want to live and build something sustainable.

And it's only 1:40h from Berlin by train... :)

~~~
ashconnor
Would you say speaking German is a requirement for a Hamburg based startup?

~~~
bitops
Ja - viele Deutsche sprechen kein English.

Und yes, meine German sind wirklich broken.

~~~
pge
I lived and worked in Frankfurt for awhile (I'm American). My experience was
different. Though I was fluent in German and worked for a company where German
was the language of day to day work, I found very few Germans that didnt speak
English (Those that had grown up in the former East Germany were the exception
- this was 15 years ago when the fall of the Wall was more recent). I met
Americans that had lived there for four or five years working at some of the
international companies there that had never learned German. It did not seem
to be an impediment.

~~~
ido
I think it was meant sarcastically.

------
egor83
Down for me, Google cache:
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:96bt8LH...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:96bt8LHCtskJ:maneeshsethi.com/blog/7-reasons-
you-should-move-to-berlin-today/&hl=en&strip=1)

------
jerguismi
I have now lived in Berlin for a couple of months - I like it, even when it is
winter :)

I'm self-employed one-man-business, and at first I thought about applying for
"real work" so that I would better integrate to the new city. Since then I
have changed my mind. There are lots of different technology events, and it is
very easy to meet new people. There are numerous co-working spaces, if you
don't want to work from home. Freelancing, startups and self-employment are
seen as normal career choice (not like in Finland, where I come from).

I have tried to pick up a little german, and I can understand it now a little
bit - but it seems that almost everybody speaks fluent english, so it doesn't
seem to be necessary.

~~~
yequalsx
I've found Berlin to be a bit of a cluterfuck. I stay in Kruezburg near the
Kotti so this probably skews my perceptions. Everyday there is a battle
between pedestrians, bicyclists, and cars. Each group fighting each other.

I agree that almost every traditional German speaks English but a lot of the
Turkish decent Germans don't.

~~~
gbog
> Everyday there is a battle between pedestrians, bicyclists, and cars.

You better never come to Beijing!

By the way, in Beijing, geeks and rich people are plenty, and entrepreneurship
is strong, even if still fragile.

------
wheels
I'll preface this with the fact that I love Berlin. I'm a US citizen that has
German permanent residence and has been in Germany for 10 years and Berlin for
5. But this post is full of fawning:

 _1) Incredibly cheap cost of living for a European capital_

This is true. Berlin is freakishly cheap.

 _2) Berlin has an amazing startup culture_

No, it doesn't. It's trending positive, but at present Berlin has a mediocre
startup culture. It's not even in the same league as the valley and also
behind NYC, Boston, London and Tel Aviv (and possibly a few more).

Pop quiz: Can you name 5 large Berlin exits? 5 Berlin angel investors that do
more than a couple deals a year? 5 VC firms with offices in Berlin? I can't do
any of those off the top of my head. I can actually answer those for several
of the mentioned cities that I don't even live in. (Note: I'm not saying that
there aren't answers for those that I could find with research, but it should
give some sense for the relative magnitudes.)

 _3) Incredible music scene and nightlife_

Also true. Though the clubs listed there are kind of the _touriste deluxe_.
What makes Berlin is the grimy underground places. Also, it's great for some
genres, terrible for some (i.e. jazz in Berlin is pretty lame).

What's more important and not mentioned is that Berlin is probably the best
city to be in for _the arts in general_ right now in the West. The nightlife
is just one outgrowth of that.

 _4) Beautiful nature, lakes, canals, and parks_

Sorry, but Berlin is a pretty ugly city. If you want pretty, go to Prague.
London and Paris are also a lot prettier than Berlin. In fact, I could list
another dozen cities that are. Also, I know of several cities that claim the
"most canals" thing (Hamburg among them). At any rate, does anyone really care
how many canals there are? While you can find some pretty spots in Berlin, if
this is high on your list of reasons to move to a city, Berlin doesn't score
well.

 _5) The awesome history, abandoned buildings, and street art (and relaxed
police)_

The anecdote about the police there is ... well, I can say that the author
hasn't been at many parties shut down by the police. The usual modus operandi
is 2-3 police tell the organizers that they've got half an hour to shut things
down or else they're coming back with a bunch of police. They're generally
pretty chilled out, except when they're not. In rare cases, usually
inexplicably, the riot police get called in and let's just say they're not
known for their friendliness.

The abandoned buildings are in large part due to the fact that both people and
industry left the city when it was divided. Berlin's peak population was about
half a million more than it has now.

 _6) Berlin’s central location makes it easy to travel around Europe_

No, it doesn't. Prague or Warsaw, maybe. But it's quite a ways from the usual
tourist fare in western Europe.

 _7) The amazing, delicious döner kebabs_

Bleh. They seem neat because they're new. Let's talk again when you've downed
your first 100 of them. They're just junky fast-food. I usually can't finish
one anymore without getting nauseous.

Other misnomers from comments:

• _Everyone speaks English in Berlin_

No, they don't. In fact, I'd be surprised if half do. People over 35 from the
east, people without a college education, blue collar workers, etc. usually
don't. And quite a few educated folks don't either.

• _The cheap parts of Berlin are the old communist parts_

Also false. Neukölln is the currently trendy spot, and Kreuzberg was before
it. Both are in the former west Berlin. Before that Friedrichshain and
Prenzlauerberg were the in spots and they were both in the east.

~~~
netnichols
Another long-term expat here (also 10 years, all in Berlin). You nailed every
"huh?" moment I had with article.

------
JonnieCache
Every single person who moves to berlin ends up mixing minimal techno. It's
uncanny.

~~~
maneesh
that is a fact, <http://soundcloud.com/maneesh/minimally-nomadic>

------
kingofspain
I'm tempted to spend a bit of time there next year. I occasionally do some
work for some guys not too far away from Berlin so I have something I can
justify it with (northern working class roots means I still think of travel as
bourgeois frippery). I'd be interested to see any lists of meetups/that kind
of thing that happen regularly.

My dad spent some time there in his army days and I remember him telling me
that beer was cheaper than a cup of tea from the roadside stops. Glad to hear
that's still the case!

~~~
maneesh
I cofounded the 4 Hour Workweek meetup, which is still very active in Berlin.
Check it out here: <http://www.facebook.com/groups/146524318752855/>

We actually had Tim Ferriss come and speak to us, it was great.

You can also check out meetup.org, I see a lot of cool Startup Freelancer
meetups there.

Lastly, check out Couchsurfing.org, there are AWESOME weekly meetups 3x /
week.

~~~
kingofspain
Excellent, thanks. At the risk of sounding like I didn't even attempt to check
the obvious, I've tried sites like that before and found almost everything was
defunct. If that's not the case here then I'll certainly take a look!

------
zmanji
How difficult is it for one to get the proper visas to Germany (EU?). What are
the requirements of obtaining a visa? Can I start a business or work for some
one on a tourist visa?

~~~
maneesh
Getting a visa isn't impossible, but you need a good reason. I got a working
visa through my university, but many people can get 'artist's visas, which
allow them to stay if they are practicing any sort of art (photography, djing,
music, whatever). These artist visas are not so difficult to get.

A residence permit is also quite easy. But a working visa can be difficult----
you need to be sponsored first.

~~~
darklajid
Careful with that recommendation. I've got a friend from the eastern part of
Europe (if you still consider it part of Europe in the first place). He came
to DE on one of those things and is currently fighting an expensive lawsuit to
be able to stay.

He is a great artist (musician) and earns more money than I did in DE as a
developer, but for some reason he's still supposed to 'go home' now.

Yes, this is a single data point and you should not believe random strangers
on the internet.

~~~
ronnier
Why would you not consider it apart of Europe?

------
retroafroman
I've been on two several week long trips to Germany and Austria this year and
I've absolutely loved it. Unfortunately, my boss isn't willing to transfer me
over to Europe. If anyone is hiring, I'm looking pretty much anywhere in
Germany, Austria, or Czech. Email in profile. I'm an engineer, but not
software (mechanical). Experience working as Linux sysadmin and enjoy Python.
Willing to work (relatively) cheap for the right experience.

------
lobo_tuerto
I'm about to complete my second week in Berlin. I'm doing some Ruby
programming with some friends. It's been an exciting experience so far, I'll
be around for a couple of months.

Anyone up for some meetups or beers? I'd like to get to know the hacker or
gamedev scene here, it would be great.

I haven't had any problems with my half baked English yet. The guys at the
döner that don't speak English, can understand half baked sign language pretty
well.

~~~
bojanbabic
I've found St Oberholz bar in Rosenthaler Strasse to be pretty famous for
meetups <http://g.co/maps/xex87>

------
binarray2000
As no one has written extensively about visas and the OP has glorified Berlin
without saying how to legally become a resident and earn money, I'll try to do
it (and tell you a nice little story in the process).

Short intro: I have lived in Germany for more than 15 years. I have learned
the language and subsequently studied CompSci there, I love so many things
about Germany, I have family and friends there, I still follow what's
happening there through the media, I have worked there as a developer and
consultant.

(All info is for non-EU citizens)

Working with tourist visa is impossible. Legally.

Obtaining the student visa (the same OP had/has) is fairly easy. And you can
work with it. But only for an employer (so, no freelancing, no incorporating).
And for 19 hrs/week maximum. If you work more, German IRS ("Finanzamt") will
contact your employer and you both can get in trouble.

Obtaining other kinds of visas is much harder. You need both the staying visa
("Aufenthaltserlaubnis") from the Immigration Service ("Ausländerbehörde") and
the work permit ("Arbeitserlaubnis") from the Employment Center
("Bundesagentur für Arbeit"). If there are no German and EU citizens available
for the job, and you have the qualification that is in shortage, and your
employer has proven all that to the Immigration Service (process that can take
months - it's time and money consuming) and is willing to pay you at least
€60.000 a year (which is quite a lot!) then, and only then you can get the
work permit. Needless to say, finding an employer who's willing to go through
that procedure isn't easy. Caveat: You are quite dependent on that employer
afterwards.

More info (in German, try Google translate):[http://migration-
business.de/2011/09/hochqualifizierte-raus-...](http://migration-
business.de/2011/09/hochqualifizierte-raus-aus-deutschland/)

Obtaining visa for incorporating a company is the hardest thing! There are two
ways:

1\. If you have had staying visa and work permit for more that five years you
can apply for permanent residence ("Unbefristete Aufenthaltserlaubnis"). The
procedure lasts three to six months and if you are (as German politicians like
to say) "integrated" (you speak fluent German, know the country, have German
friends, no criminal record, not a terrorist etc.) there is no major thing
that'd hinder you to become permanent resident. With permanent residence you
can incorporate whatever you want (sole proprietorship, a company).

2\. This is a lesser known way: If your staying visa and work permit is
"younger" than five years you can write a business plan. Immigration Service
will pass it to the local Chamber of Commerce ("Handelskammer") and after the
positive review they'll give a green light and Immigration Service will add to
your visa that you are allowed to incorporate. That's how it should work. On
paper. The real life is different.

As this is a lesser known way, I know only one guy who has tried it. Great
credentials: Studied in Germany, flawless German, "integrated" (gosh, I hate
that word), very competent. Worked for a year, and didn't want to wait for
another four to be allowed to incorporate. Had a great idea. Wrote a great
business plan. And went through limbo with it. In order to get to the positive
outcome he, preemptively, has contacted and worked with the Chamber of
Commerce guy who has worked on his case. That guy would return the business
plan every week with new "potential problems" in it. My friend would improve
it, send the new version, CoC guy would again find fault with his plan, and
the game would start again. And go on for almost eight months.

To cut to the chase, my friend went to a high civil servant
("Oberstadtinspektor") with the local Immigration Service and what the civil
servant has told him was revealing. His exact words were: "If I let you stay
here, what should I do if, due to you business activity, a German business
loses a contract and complains against us." My friend answered that he cannot
rule out that such thing won't happen. But in that case, his company will
still employ Germans and pay taxes in Germany - German state would still
benefit from his venture. Otherwise, if he'd incorporate somewhere else, that
scenario could still happen, but he wouldn't employ Germans and pay taxes in
Germany. Civil servant answered "I've told you everything I can."

My friend, disappointed, returned to his home country realizing that such way
of thinking was also the reason CoC guy behaved the way he behaved (in my
friend's words "No German is willing to take responsibility for allowing ANY
foreigner to stay in Germany"). He calls himself an "Economic Hitman" (yes,
he's John Perkins fan :))): He now owns a tech company that employs 80 people,
and uses his knowledge of the German culture, language, businesses to work
exclusively with Germany. And to INTENTIONALLY make that scenario happen. And
it has happened a few times (that he's aware of): German businesses were not
taken, his was. His competitive advantage is, for one reason, the fact that
his company is NOT in Germany. In his country labor is cheaper and he pays a
lot less taxes than in Germany - giving him leverage over German companies.

The irony: Those (civil servants) who's mission is to to the best for the
citizens and the state have failed miserably. And, on the top of that, have
proven to have NO CLUE about economy as they do not realize that economy is
NOT a zero-sum game.

------
karmajunkie
For awhile now I've been pondering the possibility of relocating my family to
europe for awhile. How hard is it for someone who can start his own business
to come there to found a company? How difficult is it to get a work permit to
move to an EU state, if you can find an employer who will hire you?

~~~
80hours
You can get a work visa (similar to US green card) if you can find a job that
pays more then 46000 Euro/Year. That is the typical IT starting salary for
companies like SAP or Microsoft Germany - if you are good ;)

------
lflux
I'd love to move to Berlin just for the hacker scene that is there, centered
around Chaos Computer Club. The open source / hacking / copyleft scene seems
bigger there than other places in Europe, at least from what I felt when I was
there for Chaos Communication Conference.

Also the döner.

------
maneesh
I'm using Dreamhost to host this site, and it started giving me 500 errors
within 5 minutes on HN front page. Is that normal? Anyone know a better host
(maybe 1&1) with better bandwith terms??

~~~
peeplaja
Yup, shared host has its limitations. Use a cache plugin like W3 Total Cache
for now.

------
benatkin
Wow, I had no idea about the cheap housing.

~~~
billpaetzke
Keep in mind he was living with a host family. If you want to rent an apt, it
will cost more. Here's some crowd-sourced numbers on cost of living in Berlin:
[http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-
living/city_result.jsp?country...](http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-
living/city_result.jsp?country=Germany&city=Berlin)

------
maneesh
BTW, Berlin's startup scene is amazing---if you can't stomach the costs of San
Fran, Berlin is the place to be.

~~~
tikhonj
Are there any language issues, or do some of the companies use English at
work? While German is certainly a language I'd like to learn at some point in
the future, being able to speak English immediately would be a big help.

Also, a slightly unrelated question--I'm a college student in the Bay Area.
Would it be practical for me to intern at a company in Europe (say, in
Berlin)? Because I would _really_ love that, especially if the company was a
startup.

~~~
maneesh
Everyone speaks decent english. Some companies might prefer you to speak
German in the office, but startup companies and tech companies mostly use
English as well.

Which college? I interned as a student from Stanford, and Stanford actually
paid for my internship. Internships tend not to pay so much, however, so don't
expect too much money. But yes, you can definitely find work there. Are you a
coder?

~~~
tikhonj
I'm currently doing EECS at Berkeley and am definitely a coder. I doubt
Berkeley has any similar program, but nothing like that has ever come up--all
of my internship talks and the like have been with the companies in question
directly, leaving the university completely out of the loop.

Do you mean the internships in Berlin pay less than ones here, or just that
internships do not pay too much in general? I think it would be a perfectly
good compromise if I got to spend the summer abroad, especially if the cost of
living is so much lower than here.

Coincidentally, this wouldn't be my first internship--I spent the summer at a
company in San Mateo and now work part-time for a startup in San Francisco.
I'm just getting tired of California.

I visited Berlin a couple of summers ago and loved it; I remember a calm city
with _very_ friendly people. I could definitely see myself moving to Germany
at some point after graduating.

~~~
speedracr
Hit up any of the companies advertising on <http://berlinstartupjobs.com/> \-
if you are as proficient as it sounds, you should find a company that takes
you on and also pays you a salary during your internship. Feel free to contact
me if you need pointing into any direction or want a second opinion.

~~~
tikhonj
Thanks for the pointer--I'll be sure to look through the jobs posted there.

------
bojanbabic
Unbelievable how many of you recently moved to Berlin. I've been here for 2
weeks and love it. Rock on!

------
bluehavana
Sounds great. Anybody hiring?

~~~
peterwwillis
Seriously... get me a crap job in Berlin and i'll move there in 2 weeks

~~~
donw
If you're seriously looking to work in Berlin, shoot me a resume. Email is in
my profile.

------
mason55
That's great, who's hiring?

------
gryzzly
a little link won't harm here: <http://berlinstartupjobs.com/> also – I'm
moving to Berlin in two weeks :-)

------
mtrn
I just leave that here (street campaign from Berlin-Kreuzberg):
<http://streetfiles.org/photos/detail/998929/>

~~~
maneesh
Wanna see real Berlin? Here is a party I threw in a subway station a few
months ago. This happened about 2-3x per week.

[http://dl.dropbox.com/u/153216/90days/29%20-%20The%20Morning...](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/153216/90days/29%20-%20The%20Morning%20After.html)

I'm the sexy man doing the thrusting motion halfway through the vid.

~~~
jedschmidt
Awesome! So Real Berlin is:

    
    
        - Blasting techno while barking English at the locals
        - Making fun of big-boned folks enjoying their dinner
        - Dancing drunk in broad daylight in oncoming traffic
    

Kreuzberg has been my second home for the past year, but it's stuff like this
that makes me wish my fellow Americans would leave these kind of antics back
home.

------
z01d
Toller post =)

