
The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction - mathgenius
https://factordaily.com/china-science-fiction/
======
Jerry2
Cixin Liu's 'Remembrance of Earth’s Past' trilogy are the greatest sci-fi
books I've ever read. I still remember when I picked the first volume and than
patiently waited for a very long time for translations of the next books to
arrive. The wait was well worth it. He manages to put his characters into
seemingly insurmountable situations and it feels like he won't be able to
write his way out of them but somehow he manages to achieve the impossible.
His world-building skills are second to none and he introduced so many novel
and interesting technologies into his universe.

Liu's a true master of sci-fi (and definitely a genius) and these books are my
favorite fiction books of all time. After I finished the last book, I was
depressed because I realized that I'm not going to read something this great
again for a very long time. They're also the first Chinese sci-fi books I've
ever read. Since then, I read the rest of Liu's books (including the Ball
Lightning which came out last year).

Can't recommend these books highly enough but beware that it might make
subsequent sci-fi books less enjoyable since you'll be judging them by a
different yardstick. I tried to read so many sci-fi books since (I usually buy
various award winning books since it's a decent filter) but I rarely finish
them because they never capture my attention (and imagination) like Liu's
books.

~~~
blackrock
I think it depends on what you want out of it.

In western sci-fi, the story exists to make the reader feel good about
themselves. At least, the successful ones are like this. It makes for good
movies, and good story telling.

Think about that for a moment. All the western sci-fi that we've been used to:
Star Wars, Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, etc.. All these stories are not
really science fiction, but rather, science fantasy.

It goes through the normal story telling, of establishing a good guy and a bad
guy. And it tries to pull you in, to empathize with the challenges of the good
guy, so that you can experience his trials and tribulations. And then, at the
end, the good guy always wins. He always succeeds, in some way or other. And
you're left with feeling a sense of joy.

But, Cixin Lui's stories, threw all that aside. He presented you with the cold
hard reality, of survival in the jungle. That there are not really any good or
bad sides. Just different perspectives. And everyone is just trying to
survive.

And the jungle is the galaxy. Western sci-fi is all about being human-centric,
as if we are the only species in the universe that matters. Whereas Cixin,
presented us with a reality, where humanity is only one of billions of
intelligent species. Those that had survived the jungle, or those that hide
from the rest, or those that evolved into another form, or those that end up
hunting, to maintain their probability of survival.

So, if you want to continue to feel good about yourself, then stick with what
you know. Keep reading western sci-fi. If you want to expand your mind, then
try out Cixin's novel.

Admittedly, I think something was lost in translation. The translated text was
overly wordy. But the concepts behind it, was still incredible.

I especially loved the story about the human computer system, the Qin 1.0
Operating System. That was quite creative.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
I don't think the cliche Hollywood ending that presents the feel good about
yourself, happy resolution, complete with positive family messages at the end
of absolutely sodding everything is anything to do with good story telling.
It's just the very tired Hollywood cliche that's proven time and again can
draw an American family audience.

It's not an either/or. Books are often much, much darker than Hollywood
adaptations.

Why is a US programme such as Breaking Bad considered ground breaking and
hugely refreshing? For the first time in decades the USA has produced
something where the hero is also the bad guy. You end up with some sympathy,
and conflicted, for a complex main character, with many shades of grey and
black. None of the usual black/white, so obvious it's painful.

Something like Stross's Merchant Princes can finish with a horrible ending and
still be a fabulous series and story telling without many reasons to feel good
to be found. Then derail after those 6 brilliant books with a clumsy
reboot/relaunch.

~~~
oblio
> It's just the very tired Hollywood cliche that's proven time and again can
> draw an American family audience.

Global family audience. They're doing something right.

As big as China is getting and will get in the future, I wonder if their movie
industry will ever become a global draw. They seem to be awfully local right
now. Same goes for Japan or even India.

------
tanilama
Three body problem does suffer the problem of weak characterization. Liu's
account of his characters are often robotic and functional, in a way that is
pretty anti-climatic, since you hardly feel for those characters and their
fate. They are disposable vehicles with string attached, who don't control
their own fate or make their own decisions but simply carry out appointed
missions from the author himself.

Granted, his vision for the story is simply brilliant, which covers up a lot
of weak points in his literary skills, but weakness is weakness nevertheless.
In a way, Three Body Problem series aren't good novels, since it lacks
humartian elements in them, but great sketchbooks of some of the craziest, but
at the same time, most beautiful SF ideas in decades.

~~~
baxtr
So basically your saying: don’t read the novels but instead read the Wikipedia
articles if you’re interested in crazy SF ideas?

~~~
ctchocula
I think he's saying the ideas are good, but characterization sucks. I might
compare it to Asimov: one would never read Asimov for the characters or the
psychological insight (like one would read Tolstoy), but one reads Asimov for
the plot and the ideas. It's not for everyone, but you would need to read the
book to see if it's for you. To say just read the Wikipedia articles would be
unjust.

My advice: read it if you liked Asimov or learning about Chinese culture. For
example, another commenter pointed out one theme in this trilogy is "The most
powerful human trait is the ability to hide ones true feelings and thoughts
from others". This is a markedly Chinese trait that it was noted by a
missionary who visited China in the 19th century and wrote a book called
"Chinese Characteristics".

------
tanilama
Chinese book market, or fiction market has now almost fully embraced digital
self-publishing. Magazine are now almost dead, books are just physical copies
of their online version.

Sad but true, the one most important Chinese SF magazine, the SF World, where
all the mentioned authors started their career, has been hanging on the edge
and gradually becoming irrelevant for some time now.

The new generation of readers has put their vote on longer, daily updated,
fast paced Wuxia(Martial Arts)/Xianxia(Martial Arts with Fantasy element)
series, which focuses entirely on pleasing the readership with favorable
characters/troupes.

With a strangling market, I wouldn't say the Chinese science fiction's future
is a bright one.

~~~
infinii
Do you value the medium or the content? I can't see why you think 'digital
self-publishing' is a bad thing.

If anything, digital publishing where you can circumvent the publishers should
allow for more content to reach market (not saying it's all good...see
geocities webpages as an example of this) but I'm not sure why you think this
would be bad for the Chinese SciFi scene.

~~~
tanilama
The problem with digital self-publishing in China is a unique one. I don't
want to expand too much on this subject because it is pretty complicated, but
in short, digital self-publishing is not merely a publishing channel, it has
reshaped the fiction genre in return.

The Chinese online fiction is now a rat race, every author is measured by the
characters they are written PER day, which ranges like 3000 characters to 10k
characters. To output that amount of text per day is not trivial task, it is
not writing more like manufacturing. And works that doesn't meet such standard
gets no chance to even reach the readership at all, per algorithm.

So, to answer your question, medium and content in this case are intervened.
Medium is not neutral, it shapes the content by itself, and sadly in China's
case, it opts to optimize for volumes not quality, and changes the readers'
taste and expectation along the way.

Tradition publishing has one unique quality to itself that it offers advice
and quality control through editorship. Not the case for self-publishing
though, the market is flooded with more products with lower qualities, and it
makes no easier for real good work to stand out since there is too much noise.

~~~
throwanem
Sounds a lot like the market for many genres on Amazon.

I will say you’re not wrong about the value of editors in traditional
publishing. As far as I know, there isn’t really much of an answer to that in
the “new media” world - even if you want to pay someone directly for the work,
editors open to such engagements seem hard to find.

------
int_19h
I have only read "Three-Body Problem", and I found it to be atrocious writing
on pretty much all levels. Language-wise, it was more cliched and wooden than
many fanfics I've read. Character development is non-existent, and most of the
characters are very shallow and only exist to advance the plot. The plot
itself, aside from the basic idea of a three-body system with life, was also
very boring - the only part of it that I actually looked forward to continue
reading was the Cultural Revolution flashbacks. And then there's the whole
sci-fi part of it, which was beyond ridiculous - sentient elementary particles
etc.

I still don't understand how that book gets so many good reviews, and
especially don't understand people comparing it with Heinlein. Those reviews
were the only reason why I forced myself to read it all the way through, and
it still feels like some elaborate hoax, or accidentally ending up in some
postmodernist art convention by mistake.

~~~
zimablue
There are more axes than character development or adherence to the constraints
of current scientific understanding on which to judge a book.

To me, originality and "philosophical development", or how the perspective of
science influences the future and nature of humanity are very important, and
that's why I consider this series an absolute masterpiece.

It's great in the same vein as 2001: a space odyssey, or rendezvous with rama,
or childhood's end

~~~
int_19h
I didn't see anything particularly original in the first book. Maybe it shows
up later.

The other axis is quality of writing - i.e. how easy it is to read and
understand, and how aesthetically pleasing the writing is. On that axis, I
would also rank it very low.

------
ngcc_hk
No Harry Potter local as no magic, no god, no fiary after 1948.

Too violent no ...

It is not just the rule. It is the arbitrary rule suddenly comes up. Any funny
bear like honey

~~~
etrautmann
I can’t parse this

~~~
treephen
it looks like he's posting from hong kong, and he is trying to avoid the
Chinese government censors or get thrown in jail.

~~~
qlk1123
Fair enough statement, but it looks more like a direct translation from
Chinese sentences to me.

> "No Harry Potter local as no magic, ..."

We don't publish localized Harry Potter (don't they? I am not sure) because
magic fantasy is abandoned.

> "... no god, no fiary after 1948."

Why 1948? The year is not that meaningful for modern Hong Kong people, but it
is a important year for China and Taiwan. At 1948, KMT was de facto defeated
by CCP and start to retreat to Taiwan.

> "Too violent no ..."

A book cannot be published if it is too violent.

> "It is not just the rule. It is the arbitrary rule suddenly comes up."

I suppose this looks like normal English? Chinese Government intentionally
keeps the publish law vague and blur, so that they can "dynamically" decide
what to ban and who to capture.

> Any funny bear like honey

@flukus got this.

~~~
forkLding
The first sentence is probably parsed wrong, Chinese fairy/mythological novels
are very popular in China, they've surpassed Chinese martial arts novels which
has broken my heart because the fairy/mythological novels suck:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xianxia_novel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xianxia_novel)

Note 仙 can mean fairy in Chinese, they are part of the Chinese category known
as 仙侠 or 玄幻，which is Asian/Chinese themed fantasy that differs from Western
fantasy novels because its about Taoism/Buddhism, Chinese dragons, demons,
immortals and Chinese legends.

As well Chinese magical fantasy or 奇幻 is still alive and well but they're
basically Western fantasy genres written by Chinese people with similar ideas
of Kings, Queens, Western Dragons.

~~~
preommr
Xinxia has some really high highs, and some really low lows. There are epic
moments that make your blood pound mixed with endless repetition of things
like mc meeting paper thin arrogant masters that are there only for some
satisfying face-slapping scene.

------
jayalpha
Long overdue. When South Korea and Japan have super interesting Sci-Fi books
and movies (e.g. Korean Bladerunner "Natural City"), why not China? I am glad
China is coming along.

Since I learn Mandarin, feel free to recommend Chinese movies. (I am trying to
read 三体 already, don't need more books).

I start with the first (non-scifi) movie:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Breaker_(film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Breaker_\(film\))

Please recommend more Chinese movies if you can

~~~
kaffeemitsahne
Wong Kar-Wai is a Chinese director I like a lot.

~~~
idoubtit
Wong Kar-Wai grew and made his main films in Hong-Kong, which was not part of
China (AKA People's Republic of China). I believe most of his actors spoke
Cantonese, not Mandarin. Since these languages are mutually unintelligible,
it's of little use to the OP which was learning the latter.

------
the_duke
As far as I know the Chinese book market is heavily censored.

I'd be curious about how this affects Chinese authors, and if and how they
have to limit the topics and the creativity of their writing due to this.

~~~
johnnyb3
I read Liu Cixin's trilogy cover to cover about a year ago. Many references to
Western thought including the Bible, social topics, and a surprising (for me)
amount of diversity injected into the plot line. Grand and sweeping, it's
great Sci Fi literature. It's hard to imagine that it is the result of any
significant censorship. I found it a fascinating glimpse into the modern
Chinese way of thinking.

~~~
Latteland
But it wasn't written today. Can someone point to such a free and exploratory
book is written in China today? I hope writers there will again have the
freedom of the three body rule.

------
mark_l_watson
I really enjoyed Liu Cixin‘s Three Body Problem trilogy when I read it last
year. Really creative and interesting. I also just finished his prequel to the
trilogy Ball Lightening.

~~~
infinii
Would you recommend reading Ball Lightning before the TBP Trilogy if I've
never read any of this...because it's a prequel?

~~~
aedron
I've read (and thoroughly enjoyed) them all, didn't even know Ball Lightning
was a prequel (it was written after the trilogy). Perhaps some repeat
characters?

I don't believe there are any spoilers either way.

~~~
mark_l_watson
I only know about it being sort-of a prequel because of the afterward material
in the audible audio book. The books can be enjoyed in either reading order.

------
jeanvaljean2463
Strong recommendation for "Usurper of the Sun", have yet to read another book
like it.

------
est
> science Literature which first came out in 1979, continued to publish during
> the campaign against spiritual pollution and continues to this day under the
> name of Science Fiction World.

Here are some interesting trivia about _Science Fiction World_

\- Nearly all of Liu Cixin's work was first published on this magazine

\- The publisher was located in Chengdu, Sichuan, it's an official member of
Sichuan Science Society, which is under direct control of Communist Party
Sichuan Committee.

\- One of the chief editor of SFW, A-Lai[1], who is a Tibetan, also a very
established award-winning writer. His most famous work is about the conflict
in feudal serfdom Tibet in the 20s century. A very interesting novel.

\- SFW was once considered the largest science fiction magazine published by
volume. In 2010 there was an online campaign from its staff requesting step
down of Party appointed president & chief editor, LiChang.

\- LiChang was also responsible for opening another magazine lineup, the
famous Magic Fantasy World. Because of the LotR and Harry Potter influence.
The magazine was discontinued in 2013.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alai_(author)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alai_\(author\))

------
rdl
Cixin Liu and Ken Liu (admittedly American) are in my top-10 SF authors now.

------
chrisweekly
Cixin Liu's "Three Body Problem" is a trip. Recommended.

------
Pale_King101
I had not an inkling of an idea that this was a thing; but I am glad that I
have stumbled upon this. Thank you for sharing! Will have to explore further.

------
mac01021
Do they have any scifi to speak of in TV yet? I wonder how long it will take,
given the growing popularity of these novels.

~~~
akvadrako
There is the series _Guardian (2018)_ , which is interesting. Probably more
fantasy and really low budget though:

[https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8551028/?ref_=fn_tv_tt_1](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8551028/?ref_=fn_tv_tt_1)

