
Nokia Has Better Maps Than Apple and Maybe Even Google - susanhi
http://m.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/10/the-forgotten-mapmaker-nokia-has-better-maps-than-apple-and-maybe-even-google/263150/
======
toyg
Nokia has (or rather _had_ ) Better-Many-Things, and absolutely no idea what
to do with them.

They keep cutting trees but there's nobody in the forest to hear them fall,
because they put huge signs all around saying "WE DON'T REALLY LIKE CUTTING
TREES". A Microsoft (or why not, Facebook) acquisition is basically their only
hope at this point, bar miracles.

~~~
jpkeisala
Microsoft is not buying Nokia. They think it's better make their own (zune)
phone. How hard can it be?

------
twoodfin
My problem with Apple's maps hasn't been the quality of the maps but the
quality of the search. I was looking for the Sea Dog Brew Pub last night. When
I put "seadog" into iOS 6 maps, no result, despite it being only a few miles
away. Google Maps nailed it. Both maps had a record of the POI, but only
Google's had the basic smarts to handle the missing space.

More complicated examples are even worse for Apple, abs typically effortless
for Google.

Unless Nokia has all that fuzzy match/page rank DNA, I'm not sure simply more
accurate maps will help.

~~~
potatolicious
I've pretty much given up on search on iOS6. It seems more often than not
entering an address like "123 Spruce" will take me to some landmark/town
relating to the street name, a few states away.

I can count the number of times the search actually picked up on the fact that
I entered an address on a single hand. Apple, this is me trying to make things
as easy for your craptastic search as possible. I've taken the trouble to type
the number and the street name. If you can't take it from there, _what the
hell_.

I've also had the map place things in hilariously wrong places. These are
shops with addresses (addresses that are correct on the detail pane!) that
would somehow end up a block away or on the wrong side of the street. Worse
yet, I've been redirect to a few no-longer-existent Starbucks by now.

This is in Manhattan too, far from an obscure location.

~~~
untog
This is one of Google Maps' hugely understated strengths. I've never found
another service that can take a partial address and understand what you mean
as well as it does. It was one of my motivations to switch back to Android
from Windows Phone.

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kalleboo
Nokia don't have perfect worldwide coverage though, they have nothing in Japan
aside from outlines. (understandable as Nokia have zero market presence or
ambition in Japan, but no good as an acquire)

~~~
hkmurakami
That's not entirely true, since Navteq has a strong presence in the auto
industry in Japan.

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userulluipeste
No, it doesn't! At least not better then Google. For example streets marked in
Doha, Qatar's capital, are totally outdated in Nokia maps - years old and
inconsistent even with their own satellite view:
[http://maps.nokia.com/25.2835829,51.5508221,18,0,0,hybrid.da...](http://maps.nokia.com/25.2835829,51.5508221,18,0,0,hybrid.day)

~~~
ernesth
From what I see, google has the same map for this crossroad, but a different
satellite view.

~~~
userulluipeste
Yeah, Nokia updated it's map in last two months. At the beginning of August it
matched it's satellite view, and the funny part was that I relied on that map!
I preferred Nokia maps because I found them to be more clear. But then on the
spot I was like current Apple users with their Apple maps...

------
berkut
<http://maps.nokia.com/3D/>

~~~
lewispollard
Is there a reason Linux isn't supported? Silverlight?

Edit: There's a webgl version here: <http://maps3d.svc.nokia.com/webgl/>

~~~
snogglethorpe
This "webgl version" works for me, but seems to have no actual mapping data,
it's just a highly zoomable satellite view with no labels or other markings of
any kind.

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rm999
I wonder if Apple has lost more value from the map debacle than Nokia's entire
marketcap. Apple's stock is down ~25-30B dollars since the the iphone 5 came
out, and Nokia is worth 10B.

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chayesfss
Nokia sounds like it has great maps, also LOVE the layout of
m.theatlantic.com. First article in a long time I could actually look at
without feeling like I have ADHD. I'm going to start trying to add a m. in
front of domains I read!

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mddw
Maybe better maps, but no street view, which is kind of a deal breaker for me
as an "urban pedestrian".

~~~
GFischer
Street View is amazing, but it's currently not available in my country
(Uruguay) nor neighbouring Argentina, and it's not available in any region of
Brazil that I've visited (I hear it's now available in Sao Paulo and Rio).

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lampe
the problem with nokia is not it software. The maps are good and other
software too. BUT smartphones are about the OS these days! and Symbian(i loved
the old s60 version on my ngage) is dead... and windows mobile dont got the
big thirdparty app market like android and ios got!

Yeah nokia has great maps but its like with Opera: "Opera the worlds best
browser that no one uses"

~~~
toyg
no one in broadband-happy Western countries, no. In countries where 56k speeds
are still the norm, Opera rules the mobile space (in a way, they really are
"the cloud browser").

Unfortunately, ruling the low-end is a bad place to be in IT, especially in
the fashion-influenced mass-consumer space. No wonder they're trying hard to
be acquired at the moment.

~~~
lampe
on my Android i use Opera too! dont get me wrong i really like opera.

but on the Desktop i dont know why but at this moment Chrome is for me my
favourite browser.

everytime when opera gets a new major release i test the version and opera
next too.

------
acdha
Depends on where you live - around Washington DC, it's Google Maps,
OpenStreetMaps, Apple (at some distance below) and then a huge gap before
Bing, Nokia and MapQuest round out the low end of the results.

I rather strongly suspect that the main consequences of Apple's move will be
fragmentation as people adapt to the service which offers the best local
coverage for them

------
joelrunyon
Here's the non-mobile link ->
[http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/10/the-
fo...](http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/10/the-forgotten-
mapmaker-nokia-has-better-maps-than-apple-and-maybe-even-google/263150/)

------
nekojima
I'm disappointed to see that the earth maps from Google and Nokia of my town
are three years old. I saw the copyright 2012 and had heard they'd been
updated through a Google posting a few weeks ago. But checking a few new
construction developments, which cars are in my parents' & their neighbours
driveways and its no later than June 2009.

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__chrismc
If Nokia has (supposedly) better map data than Google, how much money could be
made by licensing that data?

Alternatively, how much could be made by creating a map application for the
major mobile platforms, and sell it to the consumer direct? (bundled free with
Windows Phone, no doubt) Probably not as much as a licensing deal, but still
no small amount.

~~~
archangel_one
> how much money could be made by licensing that data?

Navteq still do license map data. But it's not as profitable as all that; IIRC
they weren't breaking even when Nokia took them over. This seems fairly common
in that industry; Ordnance Survey (who aren't fully commercial, but the same
concept applies) are heavily supplemented by public money, for example. It's
presumably even more expensive to do all the capture for Street View type
data.

> Alternatively, how much could be made by creating a map application for the
> major mobile platforms, and sell it to the consumer direct?

That seems like a pretty good idea to me, although I doubt it's going to dig
them out of a €1.5bn hole. Still, Nokia don't have a lot to lose at this
point, although I feel like they're still in denial about their recent lack of
competitiveness in smartphones.

~~~
gman99
€1.5bn hole? Last I checked they had €4.2bn in the bank?

[http://press.nokia.com/2012/07/19/nokia-
corporation-q2-2012-...](http://press.nokia.com/2012/07/19/nokia-
corporation-q2-2012-interim-report/)

Edit: €1.3bn loss in Q1, €800ml loss last quarter. I guess that's what you
meant. Still, not a "hole"... just driving straight into one :)

~~~
archangel_one
Sorry, probably not the right metaphor to use really. From the article, it
suggested that division of Nokia was losing €1.5bn annually, and I don't think
selling map software to mobile phone owners would make _that_ much when there
are already plenty of free (beer) alternatives.

------
Tomis02
Nokia finger race: <http://vimeo.com/28240021>

------
mtgx
According to Ars, it's not, and Bing Maps seems to be the worst of the bunch:

[http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/10/replacing-ios-6-maps-
ha...](http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/10/replacing-ios-6-maps-hands-on-
with-mapquest-bing-waze-google-nokia/)

~~~
daliusd
Not really. Nokia Maps is more than Nokia Maps on iOS. Downloadable/Offline
maps is killer feature in Nokia Symbian/Meego phones (at least for travelling
person from Europe). I guess the same solution is used in Lumia phones as
well.

Since I don't want to buy Lumia phone when there will be no Symbians anymore I
hope Android will have proper offline maps or EU will force reasonable price
for data connection across Europe (what it actually does gradually).

~~~
omaranto
I'm not familiar with Nokia Maps at all. How is its offline feature better
than Google Maps On Android's offline feature? (You call it "proper"
suggesting to me that you consider better than the way Google Maps on Android
does it.) I don't have a smart phone, just a WiFi only Android tablet and I've
fund the offline maps features in Google Maps perfectly adequate.

~~~
daliusd
OK. I don't have any modern Android. I believe offline maps for Android is
pretty new function. Right? I think in offline maps for Android you can
download only selected region. Meanwhile with Nokia maps I can download map
for individual country or state (in case of US).

~~~
ctz
For Android the regions you can select to save offline are severely
restricted. In my recent vicinity I could select as much ocean as I desired,
but no land.

The regions it is available in are undocumented.

------
aroberge
I'm curious as to how they found my exact address when I turned on the locator
feature. Also, I wonder why Canada is not listed as a country for terms of
use. Perhaps because the 3d features are not available here?...

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njx
Because they own Navteq

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hayksaakian
Are they stealth or something 'cause I've certainly never seen them

~~~
mempko
if you used mapquest, yahoo, bing, now amazon, any garmin device or any in car
navigation system, you have seen them.

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linyu
Google should buy Nokia then, for it's maps.

~~~
potatolicious
I'd actually rather Microsoft buy them. God help us if Google becomes the sole
provider of (competent) mapping services.

------
cmccabe
The internet has a short attention span, I guess. Nokia bought NAVTEQ for 8
billion dollars back in 2007. They sure ought to have good maps, after that!

NAVTEQ might be receiving map data from many commercial fleets of trucks, but
Google is receiving map data from anyone with an Android phone. I think GOOG
has this one covered.

When Nokia finishes its slow motion car crash, and they start auctioning off
the company's assets, they will easily find a willing buyer for NAVTEQ. Both
Apple and Microsoft will probably be interested. I don't know if it will
command 8 billion next time around, but it will definitely be worth something
(unless they make the mistake of mismanaging it into the ground before the end
arrives.)

