
Microsoft Convinces Judges to Jail Man for Copying Software It Gives Out Free - eaguyhn
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20180426/00051939718/how-microsoft-convinced-clueless-judges-to-send-man-to-jail-copying-software-it-gives-out-free.shtml
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beefhash
See also previously:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16924587](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16924587)
and
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16921634](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16921634)

~~~
tonyztan
More:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16918969](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16918969)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16924044](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16924044)

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lawnchair_larry
The accused is an independent PC recycler and anti-electronic-waste activist
of sorts. He observed that non-technical PC owners who ran into problems that
require reinstalling Windows, upon realizing they no longer have their restore
disc, either throw out their computer and buy a new one, or buy the latest
version of Windows at retail pricing.

This is wasteful and unnecessary. Dell is fine with this because uninformed
consumers will unnecessarily buy a new PC. Microsoft likes it because they
will unnecessarily buy a new copy of Windows, unaware that they already have a
valid license.

This seems to be the basis of their claim to “lost profits”. They said that
these restore discs, allowing consumers to use a product to which they are
already entitled, “displaces potential sales”. Shameful.

The guy being thrown in jail was not selling counterfeit discs in any
meaningful sense. He was printing restore discs, without the license, and
distributing them for roughly the cost of shipping (25 cents each).

His copies were useless to anybody who didn’t already own them. He did not
sell licenses. You could not install the software without buying Windows.
Having these does not even make it easier to pirate Windows.

The prosecution apparently originally claimed that each disc was worth $299,
showing their total ignorance of how software licenses work.

~~~
Bajeezus
You are dramatically characterizing the case. The Feds are the plaintiffs in
this case, not Microsoft. The man isn't going to prison for just distributing
disks, he's going to jail for fraudulently claiming that his disks were
authentic and going so far as to get the original disk design printed on his
fake disks. The government originally claimed that the copyright violations on
these disks were valued at several hundred dollars per disk, but Microsoft had
that value reduced to about $25 per disk, so Microsoft actually helped to
reduce his punishment.

~~~
lawnchair_larry
No, that’s not true either. Read the court documents. He is going to prison
for _pirating Windows_ specifically. The judge even used the word pirating.
Which, he clearly did not do. He distributed a copy of what is otherwise free,
from both OEMs and Microsoft themselves, and could only be reasonably valued
at $0, on a disc. The government even explicitly said that the infringed item
was not the disc itself, but the software on the disc. That software was not
counterfeit. It was Windows, the same Windows on MSDN, but with no license.

Also, Microsoft did not have the value reduced, nor did they help him at all.

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scarface74
I went to the website the article linked to where it said that anyone could
download it for free. You can't download it without the product key.

Is it overreach by Microsoft - yes. But did he download the product with his
license key and distribute it?

There is a lot of closed source software that you can get for free but you
aren't allowed to distribute. The first time I encountered the issue was back
in 1996. I downloaded a bunch of internet tools and placed them on a public
folder for customers to use of an ISP I did Mac support for (Netscape, MacTCP,
etc.). I was told I couldn't do that.

~~~
sp332
When you install the software, the license key comes from the computer (it's
stored on the motherboard), or potentially typed in by the user, not from the
disc. The discs don't work if you don't have your own key.

Distributing the discs is copyright infringement, but the penalty is
proportional to lost revenue. MS didn't really lose any money from this but
they claimed that they did.

~~~
RaleyField
>MS didn't really lose any money from this but they claimed that they did.

Users potentially have. End users were deprived of genuine restore cds.

~~~
sp332
Except he never actually sold the discs, so no one lost any money at all.

~~~
scarface74
Another article said that he sold the discs for a quarter and that he
mislabeled them as Dell recovery disks.

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ng12
He was trying to sell the disks to repair shops, complete with MS branding.
That's the line.

~~~
lawnchair_larry
A more reasonable interpretation of this is that the purpose of the disc had
to be clear. If a customer needs something to restore their Dell, they are
looking for something that says it’s a Dell restore disk.

If there were a profit component to this, using their trademark looks damning.
In context, though, it’s clear that the intention is convenience for the
customer to identify the correct tool. That doesn’t grant an exemption to
violating trademarks, but the penalty should be proportional.

For 28,000 discs at 25 cents each, after shipping and printing costs, this guy
is not making money.

Throwing him in jail for helping confused old people get their PC back up and
running is a travesty.

~~~
Hamuko
He was not selling the discs for 25 cents each. That's the story he's spinning
in the media to look like the good guy. You can see in the appeals document
that his price was not near 25 cents.

>Lundgren objected to the PSR infringement amount. He argued that the
Sentencing Guidelines required the court to use an infringement amount of
about $4 per disk, which was the price for which Lundgren and Wolff were
selling their copies.

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DeskDreamer
Can we remove this link? They didn't jail him for copying software. The issue
was he created copies with the intent to sell them. He also branded the disks
to make them appear as if they were created by Dell.

~~~
sp332
I don't think that's true. The charges were "conspiracy to traffic in
counterfeit goods and criminal copyright infringement." The court said he
caused MS $700,000 in lost sales.

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meesterdude
Seems any perceived changes in leadership are illusionary - they're the same
M$ we grew up with, playing the same nonsense games. So much for a new chapter
of Microsoft.

~~~
na85
I've never quite understood why so many HN users were willing to give
Microsoft a pass. We're talking one of the most user-hostile tech companies in
the world.

~~~
Clubber
I'm not so sure we gave them a pass, they just aren't as potent as they used
to be. Internet, Linux, then mobile weakened their stranglehold quite a bit.

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Spoom
One assumes, then, that Microsoft could sue him for $700,000 rather easily,
correct?

