
Rents are dropping across the US - xbmcuser
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/16/success/rents-are-dropping-us-cities-coronavirus/index.html
======
ghaff
"across the US" as in "in expensive coastal cities."

I don't know the broader trend but, anecdotally, I know people who have/are in
the process of moving out of cities for more rural locations. One couple I
know just moved out of a major Northeast city to the coast of Maine. Others
are seriously considering vacating NYC etc.

With many tech industry jobs mostly WFH until the end of the year and the
future in general uncertain, a lot of people, especially those with leases
coming up for renewal, are thinking this is a good time to make a move.

ADDED: I suppose this is good news for people looking for cheaper city housing
prices. Maybe not so good for those who were especially attached to either the
vibrant city life or busy office life.

~~~
spamizbad
> Maybe not so good for those who were especially attached to either the
> vibrant city life or busy office life.

I don't understand this reasoning. Was city life not vibrant when rents were
1/3rd the price?

If anything, "hypergentrification" tends to have a sterilizing effect on city
life.

To be honest I'm kinda looking forward to it. Nothing against HENRYs (High
earners, not rich yet)... but their "cultural tastes" are both expensive and
not for everyone.

~~~
asveikau
Maybe this sounds strange, but I think there is also a category of people who
prefer suburbs or exurbs and are really bitter that the pendulum has swung
back to cities in the last ~20 years.

They are really eager to see a trend out of small amounts of data. Or proclaim
urban life dead, now and forever.

I personally feel strongly in the other direction. We had the infamous "white
flight" and car-centric communities and life. We had the peak of urban crime
in the 80s and 90s. Then we had a reversal of those trends. Yes gentrification
is tough on many, yes the costs are out of control for many, but on the
balance I think denser living is the right call.

~~~
treeman79
Kids change mindset.

Kids love yards. They love the little creek that runs past.

I love the safety. Small neighborhood, we all know each other and look out for
the kids that run around playing.

~~~
Androider
I bought into this mindset, and regret it. That's what you do when you have
kids, move to the 'burbs, right?

We moved from a big city to suburban hell a few years after having a kid. In
those first years, we took our kid to museums, parks, playgrounds, etc. all
over the city. Now there is jack shit to do in the suburb we're in except
going to the mall, cannot walk anywhere, have to use the car 100% of the time
to even go to a shop. A backyard is a sad place compared to something like
Central Park. I feel so sad for my kid. If the prices keep going lower in
cities and remote work becomes the norm, we're moving back. (Un)fortunately my
wife hates it here too, and we've often talked about moving back to a city.

~~~
nkozyra
With you on this. There was never a lack of things to do in new York and with
a tiny apartment little incentive to stay home.

Back in the suburbs now and the kid would spend his Saturdays watching TV if I
didn't stop him because the alternative is ... the one playground in driving
distance? The movies? Target?

People really underestimate the volume of activity you can put in front of a
young kid in a city.

~~~
gen220
Some things I’ve observed about families I know who seem to have suburban life
figured out:

\- regular (meaning periodic) physical activity is essential, for the adults
and kids. Sports leagues, gym classes, whatever. If you’re not into sportsy
physical activity, you need a physical hobby like woodworking, gardening, or
literally anything to get your blood flowing

\- your weekly schedule looks totally different as the seasons change. Skiing
in winter, hiking and camping in the fall, beach vacationing in the summer,
etc

\- regular domestic vacations to escape the boredom, and to make you long for
home.

\- regular home improvement, to make your life in your house 1% better every
month

\- regular visits with nearby close friends and family. At least one visit to
a close relation every two weeks. Non negotiable, and ideally tied to holidays

\- overdo your holidays. Birthdays are huge, winter holiday (Christmas etc) is
huge. Thanksgiving is huge. It has nothing to do with the meaning of the
holiday and everything to do with getting people together.

These kinds of things are less achievable in the city because you have less
money, less space, less autonomy. Just my observations from happy suburban
families, I’m curious to see others’ notes.

~~~
colinmhayes
What you've described sounds pretty suffocating to a kid. Growing up in the
city my parents didn't have to force me to do a bunch of mundane bullshit,
there was so much to do I was able to find cool stuff on my own.

~~~
gen220
I mean yeah, if you force your kids to do this stuff they’re going to hate it?
I think you might be discounting the fact that many kids love to do these
kinds of things, and also the role the kids play in deciding what to do.

The idea is to expose your kids to a wide range of activities, and support
them doubling down on an evolving handful of them. Avoid setting super
specific constraints (you must play a team sport), and instead try setting
goals (find a physical activity you enjoy and find motivating). From my
perspective, parenting is about exposing children to their options, and making
some choice recommendations where you have experience.

Parents can do that anywhere, and fail to do that anywhere. I do agree that if
your parents aren’t doing a good job of that in a walkable city, kids are more
likely to discover those options on their own.

------
taylorhou
If I were a renter right now and in an urban area with a lease renewal coming
due, I'd 1000% call the mgmt co's bluff.

Context: my firm provides back office services to 50k+ rental units across the
nation and unless you're in some oddly hot market, most mgmt companies
currently are holding their breath that their renters don't say anything and
renew at the same price.

If you're reasonable, you can easily negotiate a price drop and the mgmt co
will most likely accept it begrudgingly because they do not have the data to
call YOUR bluff. every mgmt co right now is taking whatever they can get and
locking it down for as long as they can.

happy to respond to individual folks questions but keep in mind that any
advice I may provide is not legal nor financial and I guess I should say my
posts/comments are my own and do not represent my company's. =)

~~~
doh
We just canceled our lease two weeks ago. We had a large apartment in one of
the new high-rises in Downtown LA.

The last offer was 3 months free and 2 parking spaces free if we stay for 12
month lease, which comes to 34% discount on the rent including parking.

Other buildings are offering by default two months rent-free and they will pay
the movers if you decide to move in.

DTLA is a special place as it has plenty of new supply, but I can imagine that
it's not too different in other places across LA.

~~~
shostack
I'm guessing the freebies are to avoid lowering the actual rent due to Prop
13?

~~~
gkop
I think you mean rent control, not prop 13.

Anyhow this commenter sounds like they know what they're talking about and are
saying that landlords in SF _cannot_ beat rent control in this manner:
[https://socketsite.com/archives/2020/06/complimentary-
rent-o...](https://socketsite.com/archives/2020/06/complimentary-rent-on-the-
rise-in-san-francisco.html#comment-394729)

~~~
shostack
Ack, you're right, I did!

------
jjice
> She and her roommate signed a lease on a two-bedroom apartment in the West
> Village for $4,995 a month

Holy cow, I knew NY rent way expensive, but wow I didn't know it was that bad.
Growing up in upstate NY, you could be a nice family ready home in my suburban
home town for ~100K. Of course there were houses that went up to ~150K or even
200K, but 100K was standard for purchasing a home. I even though that that was
a lot.

I'm working in RI right now, renting a room outside the city, and I pay ~$500
a month for a room and all utilities. Have I just lived in very cheap places
and the rest of this country is very expensive, or is it really just the big
cities that have extremely expensive housing?

~~~
golf1052
It's not just "big" cities, it's all cities at least according to this source
[1]. I grew up in RI but I moved to Seattle after graduating college because I
didn't want to live in RI anymore but job prospects for tech increase when
you're in a city.

I wonder what the cycle to expensive rents is? Wages from jobs start to
increase in an area, some housing development happens, rents go up on those
new developments to cover costs but also because their renters can afford it,
repeat?

1: [https://www.zumper.com/blog/rental-price-
data/](https://www.zumper.com/blog/rental-price-data/)

~~~
TulliusCicero
> Wages from jobs start to increase in an area, some housing development
> happens, rents go up on those new developments to cover costs but also
> because their renters can afford it, repeat?

The increased wages (more jobs + better jobs) leads directly to both new
housing development AND increased demand for whatever housing currently
exists. The latter is more impactful for higher prices than the former.

> but also because their renters can afford it, repeat?

This isn't quite how things work. Most landlords are always going to raise the
rent to whatever the market can bear. Of course, how much people can afford
does factor into that, but it's not everything.

I can _afford_ to buy milk that costs 10x as it does right now, but I wouldn't
actually pay that because I have no reason to when cheap milk still exists.
Landlords are able to raise rents when the demand for housing goes up faster
than the supply, such that renters don't have better options available.

~~~
user5994461
>>> I can afford to buy milk that costs 10x as it does right now, but I
wouldn't actually pay that because I have no reason to when cheap milk still
exists.

You can afford to not drink milk but you can't afford to not have a roof over
your head.

Becoming homeless is not an option so people get pushed to living in older
smaller flat away from the city or sharing with strangers.

~~~
TulliusCicero
Okay fine, I could say, "I could afford to pay 2x for groceries in general,
but I won't, because why would I when I don't have to?"

Same principle for rent. It's not quite about what people can afford, it's
about what they feel they have to pay (and how much they can reasonably afford
is one factor in that).

~~~
user5994461
Rent is precisely about what people can afford. It's no accident that rent is
around 50% of local income, in all cities across the developed world.

~~~
TulliusCicero
No, rent is about supply and demand. What people can afford -- how much money
they have -- is a component of demand, but supply also matters.

If you look at countries that restrict supply less than the US, you'll notice
that rent doesn't go to such high extremes in booming cities. For example, in
Germany, the most expensive cities, the ones that have been booming, have
average rents that are around 40-50% higher than the national average. In
contrast, in the US, the most expensive cities have average rents easily
double or more the national average. Sometimes even getting close to 3x.

You could also look at NYC vs Tokyo. Japan has much looser restrictions on
housing supply and it shows here. NYC has 50% higher salaries, but rent isn't
50% higher, instead it's nearly 3x as high: [https://versus.com/en/new-york-
vs-tokyo](https://versus.com/en/new-york-vs-tokyo)

~~~
user5994461
Agreed on supply. Might want to look at the 75% of household disposable income
or exclude non-workers. Only the best earners get to live in the city.

Germany is a relatively equal country. A worker in the capital doesn't get
double salary as the same position in the countryside. In fact there is hardly
anybody who earns triple as of anybody else in the country.

The US is extremely unequal. A position in NYC can pay numerous times than a
similar position in the countryside, then even for a given position in NYC two
companies across the same street can vary from simple to double. Rent in NYC
is naturally triple to reflect the triple in income.

~~~
TulliusCicero
> In fact there is hardly anybody who earns triple as of anybody else in the
> country.

Bullshit. I live in Germany, there's somewhat less income inequality than the
US, but this is a gross exaggeration. A programmer in Munich easily earns
triple or more than what someone gets at a random McJob like at Starbucks,
also in Munich.

The bigger reason for why German rents are lower is simply that they allow for
way more housing supply. In the US, even in major cities it's common to have
wide swathes of land zoned for mandatory single family homes on large lots. In
contrast, Germany doesn't have any such zoning _in the entire country_. You're
always allowed to make at least some level of multi-family housing.

------
Pxtl
Seems silly to discuss the falling rental prices in prestigious cities without
even a nod to AirBNB.

AirBNB rentals have _collapsed_ , and so a lot of owners have moved their
properties into conventional long-term rental. This has created a glut in the
rental market, and is driving prices down.

[https://www.straight.com/news/some-vancouver-airbnb-units-
ar...](https://www.straight.com/news/some-vancouver-airbnb-units-are-being-
converted-into-long-term-rental-dwellings)

~~~
legitster
A report came out that showed the effect is super weak:
[https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3006832](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3006832)

"1% increase in Airbnb listings is causally associated with a 0.018% increase
in rental rates and a 0.026%"

This is about a fifth of the overall increase. We're talking about a $9-10 a
month difference in rent in most urban areas. Not great, but clearly Airbnb is
a small part of the problem.

~~~
qqqwerty
You seem to be misinterpreting the study. The $9-10 a month number is for the
median zipcode in the US, which is unlikely to be an urban area. And it
represents the difference for each 1% increase in Airbnb listings. So a median
zipcode with 10% more Airbnb listings would see a ~$100 difference in rent
from a similar median zipcode.

Assuming that 'a fifth of the overall increase' is correct, that means that a
place like SF can attribute at least a few hundred dollars a month in rent
increases to AirBnB, as the median rent has increased by almost ~$2k since
AirBNB came into existence.

------
subsubzero
A lot of engineers in my group as well as a few friends are leaving the SF bay
area. Now that working there is no longer a requirement and everything is shut
down, why live there? Oregon, Nevada, Colo, (cheaper areas of CA), all are
places that they are heading to. Main reasons are cost, crowds(lack thereof)
and overall better quality of life. Expect this trend to accelerate once more
leases end.

~~~
bradlys
And in my circle - none are leaving.

We all recognize that leaving the area means leaving job opportunities behind
too. We've seen what happens to engineers career trajectory who are remote at
an in-person company.

~~~
01100011
So we can expect the population of the valley to shift towards even more
career minded over achievers while normal folks flee. Great.

~~~
bradlys
I mean - did we ever expect the trend to reverse? This region is built on the
idea of professional opportunities (FAANG, bleeding edge tech, etc.) and the
possibility of getting rich if you join the right startup (aka - buy the right
lottery tickets/exercise-options).

I've only seen it get worse as I've spent my time here. Has it ever been worse
in terms of wealth disparity? I think it will continue to get worse short of
radical change. (Prop 13 dying, rezoning w/ hundreds of thousands of
apartments built, radical public transit, etc.)

~~~
01100011
> This region is built on the idea of professional opportunities

I'm pretty sure the region existed before tech blossomed half a decade ago. It
was definitely a different place even 20 years ago. Also, like 99+% of folks
here don't work for a startup.

The people with the money don't seem to care about fixing the region's
problems. The other people can't afford to. This area seems like it will just
continue devolving into some sort of dystopian, cyberpunk future.

------
arthurjj
I don't think TFA is supported by the Zumper data

Looking at the linked Zumper[1] data it doesn't seem that dramatic outside of
SF's 9.2% drop. NYC 1 bedroom is down 2% Boston 1% and SJ 0.4%. Interestingly
Oakland is UP 4.9%. So the story is different than the one they seem to want
to tell.

[1] [https://www.zumper.com/blog/rental-price-
data/](https://www.zumper.com/blog/rental-price-data/)

------
credit_guy
That hasn't been my experience. My lease expires mid August, and I already got
the lease renewal. The same level as the current one, not a dollar less. We
started looking around. Everywhere the same, same level as the current one. I
didn't get to ask about free months yet, maybe management companies will offer
one-two months. But the actual rent per month is not going down, despite a
significant number of vacancies.

~~~
RandomBacon
Negotiate. Tell the manager they've been great, but ultimately it comes down
to dollar price for you. Let them know you're starting to look elsewhere
unless they can lower the rate. When they reply, even if you like the rate,
don't tell them that. Tell them it's not what you are looking for; that
because of work and expenses, that rate isn't as affordable. Give them another
chance to offer another lower rate or add a perk such as a free month or two.

------
paulpauper
>At the end of May, Ilana Freund landed a deal on an apartment in New York
City where she will be attending graduate school. She and her roommate signed
a lease on a two-bedroom apartment in the West Village for $4,995 a month. It
was a significant discount: Similar apartments in the building were going for
around $5,300 before the pandemic took hold, according to the listing agent.

wow a whole 6% reduction. Odds are next year it will be back at $5,300. One
way to offset this reduction is to increase the mandatory down-payment or
increase min. duration of the lease.

~~~
xenihn
it's primarily a big deal because this is the end of YOY increases that lasted
for more than five years

------
chadlavi
I for one am ready and rarin' to go for a housing market crash (or
"correction" if you wanna call it that) here in NYC, and strongly encourage
everyone who doesn't feel like living here to strike out for the heartland.
It'll be a better city all around with fewer people and lower rents.

~~~
mdorazio
I've been thinking about this and the problem I keep circling around is that
basically everyone I know says the exact same thing (waiting for a housing
market drop so they can buy in). That implies that the latent demand in the
market is _huge_ and any price drops will immediately be gobbled up by an army
of millennials who've been waiting for their chance. The question to me is if
there are more homes existing owners can't afford anymore or more buyers with
enough money to pick them up when they drop a few percent.

~~~
chadlavi
This is an annoyingly good point, honestly.

I'm mostly hoping that a lot of the other millennials who have been waiting
their chance are planning to skip town for some cheaper suburbs.

------
leg100
That doesn't sound like much of a discount, what, 5%?

Without moving, I got 40% off my rent for six months in the middle of London.
I'd encourage tenants who haven't asked for a discount yet to do so.

~~~
chrisseaton
What do you say?

'Give me a discount or...' or what? You'll move out? Sounds like moving would
out be an absolute nightmare at the moment. Are you going to go flat-hunting
in the middle of a pandemic?

~~~
baby
I've thought about reaching out to my landlords and ask if they would
"consider aligning with the current market".

I haven't done it because they've been good landlord, but at the same time I'm
paying an insane rent (I live in SF) for a pretty average 1 bedroom...

But what if rent continues to decrease, can't ask twice.

------
vorpalhex
This seems more like a market correction than an actual rent drop.

> She and her roommate signed a lease on a two-bedroom apartment in the West
> Village for $4,995 a month.

I struggle to believe that there are two bedroom apartments that have that
kind of demand/value outside of an inflated circumstance.

~~~
hn_throwaway_99
> This seems more like a market correction than an actual rent drop.

An "actual rent drop" _is_ a market correction.

------
xxpor
If we needed any more evidence the way to lower costs in the long term is
building more housing. Supply and demand works people!

~~~
maxsilver
Except this proves the opposite. When we built, prices skyrocketed. When we
_stopped building_ (due to COVID), the prices began dropping.

It's a combination of AirBNB being unable to illegally occupy housing, and the
ultra-wealthy having a fear of urban density contagion. Demand is basically
unchanged over the last 6 months, and the housing that exists is basically
unchanged over the last 6 months, and yet prices are finally falling.

It's got basically nothing to do with "supply and demand" for cities (unless
your definition of "demand" is so loose as to include literally anything that
might impact a pricetag).

~~~
hn_throwaway_99
> Demand is basically unchanged over the last 6 months

I'm calling major BS unless you can back that up with a source. This article
talks about the major exodus in NYC: [https://therealdeal.com/2020/06/02/new-
yorkers-exodus-could-...](https://therealdeal.com/2020/06/02/new-yorkers-
exodus-could-unravel-rent-regulation/)

------
Grimm1
Not only are they dropping, the incentives being offered around NYC are pretty
nice. 50% off security deposit and 1 month free are what I've recently
received. I checked back to see a week or two after and they were offering 2
months for free with 50% off the deposit.

~~~
TechBro8615
Are they still doing salary requirements of 42x monthly rent unless you have a
guarantor?

~~~
Grimm1
Yeah I don't think they've budged on that in NYC much yet unfortunately.

~~~
TechBro8615
It's quite frustrating how hard it is to get an apartment in NYC without a
proper job, e.g. as a freelancer. If they even answer you, they want you to
put a ton of money down up front.

------
bogomipz
There's a couple of things worth at least considering. The article states:

>"The two roommates were also given one month's rent free and did not have to
pay a broker fee, which typically would have cost them 12% to 15% of the
annual rent."

There was actually legislation passed back in the Winter that effectively did
away with the whole broker fee system.[1] I know a judge temporarily blocked
this as per the article but that was only until June.

>'"But, he said, more apartments are also available because people just up and
left their leases. While many left when the pandemic shut down the city,
others left later when the protests over the killing of George Floyd began,
Gavzie said.'

Generally you are legally obligated for the rent for the duration of your
lease. So while a renter can "just up and leave", if they don't fulfill their
obligations they can be sued. So if by upping and leaving a tenants pay's the
remainder of their financial obligation then it would make sense that a
landlord would give them a discount since they may be collecting twice on the
same place for some period time.

[1] [https://ny.curbed.com/2020/2/11/21132836/nyc-broker-fees-
law...](https://ny.curbed.com/2020/2/11/21132836/nyc-broker-fees-law-real-
estate-tenants-rights)

------
baybal2
> 'Pandemic pricing' is here. Rents are dropping across the US

I don't understand the negativity, are most people here are rejoicing that
they get cheaper rents in major cities?

~~~
jdhn
CNN is acting as a mouthpiece here for landlords. Landlords don't want rents
to go down, so they are reacting negatively to this news.

------
benmw333
LOL say's California! I have seen steady rent prices and decreasing housing
prices.

~~~
diogenescynic
Even within California it's mostly just a shift from urban areas to suburban
and rural. For instance, leaving San Francisco and moving to Sacramento or
Tahoe or Santa Cruz.

------
asdfman123
One dark thing the article doesn't seem to mention: what about COVID-19
evictions?

Have to get new tenants when the old ones are being kicked out or going back
home to live with their parents.

~~~
hackernews
You're correct, it's dark thing and that no one is talking about it.

How do courts open back up when 30%+ rentals are overdue on rent?

------
yurlungur
"Conveniently" just got a notice from my property to renew my lease with a
slight increase in rent. July 4th seems like a pretty good time to look for
alternatives!

------
gliese1337
Rents, and house prices, are going _up_ where I live, reportedly as a result
of all of the people leaving California cities and moving here instead.

------
TheBobinator
This articles takes 4 pieces of anecdotal evidence and concludes rents are
dropping; there is no study, no calling around, no use of modern technology.
Just 4 anecdotal pieces of evidence.

Then everyone on HN is going to start talking about their anecdotal evidence
which does exactly nothing for anyone.

This is exactly the kind of drivvel and BS that does not belong on HN or
frankly, published in 2020.

------
forgotmypw17
[https://xx.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/h9nzrg/my_landlord_i...](https://xx.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/h9nzrg/my_landlord_is_dropping_my_rent_200_when_i_reup/)

------
renewiltord
It's really not a big change. The rent on the market is the visible marginal
rate and skews upwards because of locations that are way above their market
rate being not taken for a long time.

------
ChuckMcM
One wonders if this is, perhaps, explained by a lot of people holding on to
rental properties as airbnb units had to give them up, so there are lots of
units available and prices are coming down.

------
ethagknight
Incidentally, I just opened a large urban apartment community in downtown
Memphis, and we are leasing up at 2x the rate we planned on, for higher rents
than we planned on.

------
WalterBright
Supply & demand actually works, even for real estate.

------
austincheney
Nearly $8000 for luxury one bedroom apartment. Money to burn. My house payment
is about $1200 per month for 2800 sqft in one of the nations largest cities
and that includes property tax. Plus I have equity on the house which has
doubled in value over the last 10 years. Financially I really do not
understand dumping cash into a lease without equity.

------
exabrial
I have a feeling commercial real estate is next in about 3-6 months

------
Avalaxy
> "It has been crazy," Freund said, "but we definitely got a very good deal."

This reads like a parody to me. Paying 5000 dollars per month in rent and
calling it a good deal. That's more than what many people even make in salary.

~~~
baddox
I’m not sure why that’s a contradiction. If you could buy a nice new private
jet for $100,000 it would be reasonable to call that a good deal, even if it’s
more than what most people make in a year.

~~~
maxsilver
It's a contradiction because a regular 2-bed apartment is a basic essential
necessity for human life, and not an extravagant ultra-luxury like a nice new
private jet is.

~~~
renewiltord
I've been living in a 1-bed apartment for most of my adult life. Hasn't felt
like I've been missing a necessity.

------
dave_4_bagels
This is interesting, immediately before Covid-19 hit NYC I moved to mid-town
Manhattan in early March.

Compared to Boston (where I'd previously lived for about 7 years) I was
stunned how affordable (with roommates) luxury housing was, at least during
"off-season".

For the master suite in a unit with a clear view of the Hudson and the USS
Intrepid (I actually had a great view of the USS Comfort while it was in port)
I only pay $1900/mo. with free gym perks, laundry in unit, AC, with brand new
construction standards (building was constructed in 2018). It's not cheap, but
by NYC standards when correcting for the quality of the building / building's
I've lived in around Boston it's unparalleled.

Even if I moved to Austin TX, I'd essentially only be saving about $400/mo. to
have a decent apt to myself but also be getting paid substantially less. It's
going to be very interesting in a year whether I negotiate my rent down, or
look for a new place to live and bargain HARD.

That said, I'm an NYC rental noob, very open to what kind of luxury rents
people are seeing now in a post-covid rental environment?

~~~
lbotos
I vouched for you to get this comment out of dead. I think you may be
shadowbanned for your first comment on your account? Talk to the mods.

~~~
user5994461
Might have got downvoted for the nonsense of "luxury with roommates". There is
no luxury in having to share living space with 3 strangers. This resonates
very strong with members over 30 and couples, it's the sign that having a roof
for yourself let alone your family is totally unaffordable.

------
holidayacct
On a related topic, for those of you who maybe unemployed or know someone who
is unemployed.

Beware of rumor spreading when you are looking for work there are companies
that are setup for a single purpose. They keep track of the recently
unemployed and specialize in spreading rumors at every and any company that
you interview at (They masquerade as in-person advertisers or MLM companies).
They do this to keep you unemployed long enough so that they can force you
into certain places at ridiculously low salaries, they then keep you in debt
slavery to force you to purchase from certain places that landlords or shop
owners benefit from. This happens all over the country and these vultures are
taking advantage of people all over the place.

~~~
yodon
Citation?

