
About the new iWork for Mac: Features and compatibility - twsted
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT6049?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US
======
daughart
Apple increasingly proves that intransigence in response to customer feedback
is not a defining feature of Apple's aesthetic. Another example is the reduced
motion setting in iOS7. There's no need to piss people off just for the sake
of purity; Steve gave that to Apple, but it is fundamentally distinct from
Steve's primary gift - his vision of consumer products. Steve would have
berated you for using Applescript, until Apple released the update a year
later that supported Applescript.

~~~
lukeqsee
This.

I had to look it up, so to save you the time:

    
    
        intransigence: Unwillingness to change one's views or to agree.

------
cmyr
This new trend of Apple "communicating" their "plans" is really... unsettling?
It has the same sort of un-appleness to it as the announcement at WWDC of a
product with no release-date: just sort of not something we've seen much of,
previously.

This sort of communication seems more unambiguously good, though. Not sure if
this counts as backtracking, but it's certainly a new degree of 'transparency'
(or 'not complete opacity') and I think it's refreshing.

I guess there's actually a bit of previous from apple for this sort of thing,
such as their open letter about the iPhone 4 antennas, or about Foxconn
etcetera. Still this feels a bit different.

~~~
k-mcgrady
>> "the announcement at WWDC of a product with no release-date"

If you're referencing the Mac Pro, that one made sense to me. People have been
complaining about the lack of an update for a long time and Apple was probably
losing people to Hackintosh/other platforms. An announcement helps slow that
loss. Also developers are likely one of the main groups the Mac Pro is
relevant to so it makes sense to announce that they are working on it at WWDC.
Also didn't they say 'later this year'? That's not too different that what
they do every year with iOS (coming this fall).

~~~
girvo
I thought the also did it with the iPad Mini Retina? I'm probably wrong though

~~~
frogpelt
They said "Later in November". More of a general time frame than a release
date.

~~~
ctdonath
Yup, timeframe. The first iPad was announced as coming "next month", which
turned out to be 5:00pm on the last business day (a Friday) of April.

------
kunai
Wow. Just when I thought Apple couldn't do anything to bring me back, they do
this. And then that warrant canary yesterday.

Using Apple is like being in a passive-aggressive relationship. One day, she's
absolutely wonderful and does everything your way and you get to cooperate on
every single decision, and the next day, she gives you the cold shoulder
because you weren't doing some arbitrary thing right.

The website still looks like crap, but it looks like Apple is slowly coming
out of the inconsistent days of iOS 7 and fixing the stuff they should have a
long time ago.

I guess that's worth something, even if it doesn't feel like enough to me.

------
freejack
I'm kinda surprised to see this. I'm a big iWork user and I didn't really miss
any of the features they took out. I mean, not having those features didn't
affect my ability to do my job, so I didn't really know if the outcry was
realistic or just a sense of entitlement. It is good know that we'll see some
rapid improvements - although I'll be wondering how necessary some of these
features are if I didn't miss them in the first place ;-)

edit: what kind of things are people doing with Applescript in Keynote? It
sounds interesting...

~~~
graeme
Pretty realistic. I can speak from my own experience: a lot of people used it
to produce professional documents. I use it to write books, it is (was) a
wonderful alternative to Microsoft Word.

The new version removed at least six mission critical features, so I didn't
upgrade. I could not have written my book in Pages if I was starting out with
the new version. Style management, in particular, is crucial.

~~~
Samuel_Michon
As you self-publish, wouldn’t it make more sense to use Adobe InCopy[1]? There
is no other app I know of that integrates better with InDesign. As a
publisher, that’s what I ask authors and editors to style copy in.

If you’re a Adobe CC subscriber, you already have access to it. If not, a
InCopy CC license costs $240 a year.

[1]
[http://www.adobe.com/products/incopy.html](http://www.adobe.com/products/incopy.html)

~~~
graeme
It may make sense to learn it eventually, but so far there's nothing I haven't
been able to do with ease in Pages. Here are my books, you should be able to
see inside them to get a sense of the formatting:

[http://www.amazon.com/Graeme-
Blake/e/B009A0YBWO/](http://www.amazon.com/Graeme-Blake/e/B009A0YBWO/)

What would be the major advantages? I'm sure there are some, I just don't know
much about it.

~~~
Samuel_Michon
I looked at the covers of your books: those are good. I also looked at the
interiors on some of your books: those seem to not have received as much
attention.

InCopy makes it easy to add styles that translate well to InDesign. The same
is true for tables and lists. I’d say, watch the tutorials Adobe and
Lynda.com[1] created.

InCopy has copyfitting features: you can see exactly how many lines fit on one
page and how many lines you’ve got left. You can also preview the layout.

[1] [http://www.lynda.com/InCopy-training-
tutorials/232-0.html](http://www.lynda.com/InCopy-training-
tutorials/232-0.html)

------
seanwoods
I'm disappointed not to see the "Share" menu make it into this list.

In iWork '09, there's a "Share" menu. It has a few different output formats
(PDF, Word, etc). When you click an output format, it exports to an attachment
and automatically opens Mail. This is so incredibly efficient and reduces so
many clicks.

I use this feature at 5-10 times a day, at least, and it's the one feature
that is preventing me from upgrading to Mavericks on my primary laptop.

I realize that when I install the new iWork, the old iWork will still be
there, but it still feels risky.

Apple, if you're listening, please fix this.

~~~
Samuel_Michon
> In iWork '09, there's a "Share" menu. It has a few different output formats
> (PDF, Word, etc). When you click an output format, it exports to an
> attachment and automatically opens Mail.

The new iWork apps have a Share menu. It has all the same options as before,
but it can also send just a link to the document. Using the latter option, the
recipient can choose to open the document in whatever format they desire and
to open it in an iWork app or on the web. Even web users can edit the document
and send it back to you as an iWork file (and other file formats.)

Here are some screenshots: (iWork 5 in Mavericks)

[http://imgur.com/IxNE8KG](http://imgur.com/IxNE8KG) (the Share menu in the
app toolbar)

[http://imgur.com/a4DqXkY](http://imgur.com/a4DqXkY) (Send an email containing
the document)

[http://imgur.com/X9YgQ4r](http://imgur.com/X9YgQ4r) (‘Send via email’ file
format options)

[http://imgur.com/OcKseRs](http://imgur.com/OcKseRs) (Send an email containing
a link to the document)

Also, if you upgrade to Mavericks, you can continue using iWork ’09. When you
upgrade your OS, the iWork apps aren’t automatically updated to the new
versions. And if you do download the new iWork apps, your iWork ’09 apps will
still be there.

~~~
seanwoods
Appreciate the response. The problem is that the new process introduces
another click where you have to select the document format. In iWork '09, you
click the menu, then drag to word, then a menu opens. so 1-2 clicks vs. extra
clicks and context shifts. It's a step backward.

I realize an update to Mavericks won't necessarily affect iWork, but I'm too
attached to my current process to even risk it. It's an irrational behavior, I
know. :-)

~~~
Samuel_Michon
> the new process introduces another click

Yeah, that is an unfortunate result from adding more functionality in the same
menu. I would’ve preferred to have two buttons: one for sharing links and one
for sharing files. Even better: I’d like to customize the toolbar, like you
can in Finder.

Currently, there’s no preference option to set a standard export format. I’m
sure you could write a script that automates the process, but you might have
to do it through UI actions.

Personally, I’ve starting sending links instead of files. Doing so only takes
two clicks, like we’re used to.

------
acomjean
Apple changes its mind frequently. "Nobody wants video on an ipod" a year
later, ipod with video. "Nobody reads Books anymore", cue the ibook store
years later. You don't need two buttons on a mouse, powerPC processor are the
best, firewire! Scsi!

Apple seems to reserve the right to change their minds and then not say
anything about it. They ignore commenting on the past ofter (the Halo Demo at
macworld for example..)

Apple always project they know what they're doing, but looking at it hindsight
they change their mind frequently as business conditions change

~~~
tedunangst
_Apple always project they know what they 're doing, but looking at it
hindsight they change their mind frequently as business conditions change_

That's one way to phrase it. Why not say Apple knows what they are doing
_because_ they adapt to changing business conditions?

------
drivingmenuts
"New unified file format" ... isn't the same sort of nonsense we went thru
with Office applications that led to the nightmare of trying to open the files
in other applications?

~~~
fredoralive
It's an undocumented binary format rather than a documented XML one. The
format seems to have been designed with low RAM / CPU usage (ie: iOS) in mind.

But seeing as nobody else seems to have bothered to actually add support for
the old iWork formats despite them being documented XML, the situation is
basically unchanged in reality.

~~~
Samuel_Michon
According to John Siracusa, Apple made the new iWork file formats so that
changes could sync better with iCloud. The idea being that it’s more
economical to sync lots of small packages instead of sending one XML file.

Apparently, the new file formats use a Google technology called ‘Protocol
Buffers’[1]. According to Google, Protocol Buffers have some advantages over
XML: they’re simpler, smaller, faster, less ambiguous, and generate data
access classes that are easier to use programmatically.

Here are some more details on the new file formats:
[http://pxlnv.com/blog/exploring-the-new-iwork-for-mac-
file-f...](http://pxlnv.com/blog/exploring-the-new-iwork-for-mac-file-
formats/)

[1] [https://developers.google.com/protocol-
buffers/docs/overview...](https://developers.google.com/protocol-
buffers/docs/overview?csw=1)

------
calgaryeng
A spreadsheet program without "Multi-column and range sort"?

They are definitely catering to a specific group of people here (i.e. nobody
who has ever used a spreadsheet in a remotely technical fashion EVER -- my
monthly budget tracker??)

------
phaus
I like how their workaround is to have two versions of iWork installed. That's
the same kind of shit they are always making fun of everyone else for.

Personally, I find OS fragmentation more excusable than Office Suite
fragmentation.

------
Tloewald
What I miss from Pages:

1) Set shortcut key for style.

2) Being able to see my styles laid out and displayed WYSIWYG (but I don't
miss the drawer).

What I was hoping for but did not get in the new version of Pages:

3) Non-broken ePub export.

None of these have been promised (yet).

~~~
Samuel_Michon
Keyboard shortcuts for styles are mentioned as a feature coming in the next 6
months.

------
ancarda
One small issue is comments aren't shown as a sidebar so if you have many
comments on a document, it becomes tedious to read them as they're tucked away
behind little yellow boxes.

------
apendleton
Hm... no mention of restoring the drastically weakened typographical features
that got dropped from this version of Pages. I suppose I'll stick with iWork
'09...

~~~
tekacs
I would hope that you weren't hoping for them to restore 'drastically weakened
typographical features' as you suggest. :)

Restoration of drastically more powerful ones, sure. :D

------
protomyth
"Improvements to AppleScript support"

This was the biggest disappointment for me. Although, given the train wreck
the Finder has become, I am not very surprised. It seems like they should have
waited a couple of more months before releasing Mavericks.

~~~
threeseed
I am confused how the Finder has become a train wreck.

It is fundamentally the same as OSX 10.0 public beta.

~~~
protomyth
It actually worked in 10.8 and is buggy as hell in 10.9. So here are some fun
things with 10.9:

Create a folder A, set folder A to sort by Kind, create a folder B inside it,
create 100 text files. Open 2 Finder windows showing A. Scroll window 1 to the
top of A, scroll window 2 to the bottom of A. Drag the last file from windows
2 to folder B showing in window 1. watch window 2 scroll. Sorting files into
sub-folders just became an exercise in frustration.

Set any folder's view properties with AppleScript and they no longer take
effect until you navigate out of and then back into the folder.

Move too many images with previews and watch Finder hang.

~~~
mimiflynn
Maybe I'm missing something: why wouldn't you just open folder B in window 2
and move files from the outer folder in window 1 into the open folder B in
window 2?

I haven't updated to Mavericks yet, btw.

~~~
protomyth
I gave the simplest example. In general you would have a couple of folders
that you would be sorting some files into when one folder got too crowded. It
is still a really crappy bug.

------
sarreph
Here comes the backtracking via public announcement; something we've come to
expect from Apple over the past few years.

~~~
gecko
This isn't backtracking, and this is awesome.

There has been a lot of coverage over how the new iWorks is to the old one as
FCP X was to FCP 7. _Unlike_ that debacle, which left users wondering WTF,
this time Apple is providing a roadmap amazingly quickly after release,
detailing exactly what feature improvements we should be expecting in the near
future and when. To that I say: about time, and thank you.

I'll stick with iWorks '09 for now, but at least I now know that e.g. the lack
of AppleScript is temporary, not permanent, and that I'll be able to massage
my old scripts to work with the new tools within six months. Not bad.

~~~
gsnedders
And I bought Keynote a few weeks ago — I have some disc with Keynote 1 (maybe
2?) on it somewhere, but instead of digging that out I thought I may as well
get something up to date — and I noticed in my Applications folder earlier
today that some recent update has installed Keynote '09 alongside the new
version.

