
Pigeon Towers: A Low-Tech Alternative to Synthetic Fertilizers - camtarn
https://www.notechmagazine.com/2016/10/pigeon-towers-a-low-tech-alternative-to-synthetic-fertilizers.html
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GlenTheMachine
In Cappadocia (central Turkey) there are millenia-old settlements carved out
of volcanic tuff. You can hike down a valley and see structure after
structure, not protected in any way, just out thre for anyone to climb into
and explore. Churches, domestic dwelling, tombs... it was amazing.

But the most common type of structure was a simple cave dug into the rock,
with fifty to a hundred niches carved into the walls, and then the door was
bricked uo with just three shoebox-sized openings left in them.

We eventually found a guy there who represented himself as a guide, and he
told us that these were pigeon coops, which the folks who inhabited these
settlements used for their eggs. Which made no sense to me. Pigeon eggs are
tiny. That's an awful lot of work for an egg the size of your thumb.

But what makes perfect sense is to keep pigeons for their droppings. The place
is practically desert. The soil is infertile. But with fertilizer... you could
survive.

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benj111
"volcanic tuff"

I thought you'd made a typo there.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuff](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuff)

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lota-putty
It's far better to compost agri waste directly than this pigeon-shit(chewing a
dollar to shit a penny). Pigeons eat mostly seeds so does sparrows. Any
insect/pest eating bird species fare better here wrt farming.

~~~
kaveh_h
Composts need worms and other type of insects that compose the waste plants.
It could be a slower process in certain part of the world if these insects are
not plenty as a result of dry climate.

Besides the production output is probably far higher than what the pigeon
consumption (not a penny for a dollar as you suggest), otherwise why would
these people bother for thousands of years.

~~~
chabes
Compost needs microbes more than macrobes.

Anyway, it seems like the system is much more passive than folks are
realizing. The bird waste collects over long periods of time, and is
presumably removed in a mostly composted state.

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gwern
As elegant a solution as
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windcatcher](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windcatcher)
towers. Millennia of agricultural refinements...

~~~
kbenson
Which I remember from it being covered here before.[1]. I seem to recall it
was covered in more depth before that discussion, but can't locate it at the
moment. :/

1:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17670608](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17670608)

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ggm
The investment in perpetuated technology in this region is high. Qanat for
instance
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qanat](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qanat)

These things demand social capital. They don't work well as solo effort they
need love and repairs

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benj111
It seems to me the major downside here is that you have to disperse the guano
yourself.

A roost on wheels, akin to a chicken tractor [1] would work better wouldn't
it?

[1]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tractor](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tractor)

~~~
arthurofbabylon
Perhaps such precise manual application can also be an upside.

~~~
benj111
Perhaps. Would you want to manure a field by hand though?

There would also be a health benefit to the birds not being in their own
excrement all the time.

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patcheudor
Interesting their waste would be collected and put into fields given the
serious health risks involved.

[https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/61646.php](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/61646.php)

~~~
markdown
Using human waste (night-soil) in the fields was a common practice in England,
Japan, India, and elsewhere for centuries.

~~~
chabes
“Night-soil” is much more palatable than “humanure”

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arthurofbabylon
Can anyone think of an equivalent expression in software?

(Genuinely curious here. Many software solutions are derived from ecological
phenomenon and agricultural practices - this seems like a neat one to mimic.)

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aaron695
> Pigeon Towers: A Low-Tech Alternative to Synthetic Fertilizers

This only works if you like perpetual motion machines.

They feed off the grain in the fields so they are not going to give back more
from the fields than they take.

But they do turn grain into meat, eat pests, sold for status symbols and
racing, and most of all are a important part of a nation identity.

I'd like to see a proper study but 100% doubt they could be used to increase
yields in itself and while we destroy native lands for farming we must use it
at as high a levels as possible.

I suspect even when land was less intensively farmed 1000 years ago their
status (Google for pics, they are impressive and not just Iran) and liking
meat was still what made them viable, not crop yields.

I also suspect they are just a sneaky way to steal from you neighbours, this
is what is more interesting.

