

How You Can Invest In My Deals - _pius
http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2013/09/23/youd-like-to-be-an-angel-investor-heres-how-you-can-invest-in-my-deals/

======
ljd
The investment pitch is interesting and while I own my own startup I don't
think I have the knowledge it takes to take a page of text and determine if I
should invest, even if the sum is small.

Regarding Shyp, it would be great to imagine a huge untapped potential market
around "the first mile" problem but it's hard to see the market there.

For example, in almost any sized company I've worked in, FedEx or UPS would
pick up daily from the office for free. So there is a ceiling for this to
become B2B and there is already distribution and experience doing this with
other carriers such as FedEx and UPS.

Also, I've been able to print shipping carrier labels on packages before and
have them picked up directly from the carrier for free so there is already a
mechanism there for residential albeit I don't know the details for this
program.

But more importantly, while I hate taking my packages down to a UPS store as
much as any one else, I rarely do it. And making it easier for me doesn't mean
that I would do it more. It just means that it would be easier to do it a few
times a year. Which is a scary thought for a business; to think that perhaps
you are entering a market that has no room for growth and that the best thing
you can do is take a small market away from a large company with more
potential to squeeze your margins.

I wish Shyp the best of luck, and if this company is successful it's just a
testament to how I probably don't have the wisdom to take a page of text and
make a decision on whether or not it will be successful.

EDIT

\-----

I've done some more research and here is what I found:

For $10/week (Flat) UPS will pickup daily from your house [0]

For $5.50/pickup UPS will do a one time pickup [1]

[0]
[http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/bussol/browse/pickup.html](http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/bussol/browse/pickup.html)
[1]
[http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/shipping/time/service/value...](http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/shipping/time/service/value_added/oncall.html)

~~~
pbreit
I pretty much never sell on Ebay because I envision the shipping pain. I think
you also missed the point that they pack it up for you, too. And that you get
FedEx/UPS-like service at USPS prices.

~~~
jonnathanson
Indeed. As a frequent seller on eBay, Craigslist, and other markets, I can
testify to how big a deal the "first mile" problem really is. Finding time to
package something properly, take it to a UPS or FedEx or USPS outlet, and get
it out the door is a serious PITA for the time starved.

Big, big need with a large TAM, in my opinion. Logistically, it seems very
hard to scale. But the potential is there.

~~~
rschmitty
Wife sells on ebay constantly. She's a Dr, not a stay at home mom, little free
time, and certainly makes more than me!

USPS picks up for free. USPS delivers Priority Mail boxes/envelops for free
(boxes also free). Print a shipping label from ebay for free (and get a rate
cheaper than you would if you buy postage at the post office)

We havent been to the post office in years

You are going to shoot yourself in the foot if you start charging $5 more on
shipping vs competitors on ebay.

~~~
jonnathanson
Really depends on the sellers they're targeting. There is a likely segment of
sellers who will place a big premium on their time, and even a $5+ premium.

The "money is not a concern; just get this taken care of for me" set is not to
be underestimated.

------
isamuel
If I'm reading the SEC rules correctly, to be an eligible investor, you must
have an income in excess of $200K. Is that right?

~~~
gbelote
You need an income of $200k/yr ($300k/yr if married) for at least two years,
or a wealth of over $1m (excluding the value of your primary residence).

------
mathattack
Just so that I follow... You're not investing alongside him as a VC or angel,
you're investing through him, where he acts as the VC and collects the 20%
carry, correct?

~~~
GrinningFool
Correct - and the 20% carry is on any profit, not on the investment itself.

~~~
mathattack
Yes - typical VC structure.

~~~
far33d
Minus the up-front commitment and the management fee.

------
bobbygoodlatte
It's odd that the carry applies to each deal individually. In contrast, VC's
take a carry on the aggregate return of all of their investments.

If a VC does twenty $10MM investments, and sees a $100MM return on two of
them, they break even. No carry would be charged to LP's (although management
fees would apply).

Meanwhile an "LP" auto-backing an AngelList syndicator pays a carry on every
winner, but still loses 100% for every loser.

That's a big deal in angel investing — generally you're counting on very few
winners to cover the costs of your losers. Shaving 15-20% off every winner can
very possibly turn your overall returns negative.

Finally, the syndicator has a mis-aligned incentive to broker as many deals as
possible. It's now possible to net a profit via carry, even if your losers
would have outweighed your winners investing alone.

Tim has fantastic taste in startups. His investment in any startup is a strong
signal. But AngelList's terms are pretty iffy for syndicate backers. If the
carry was applied to his deals' collective return, I'd be the first in line.

------
msrpotus
While Shyp might be a great company (it seems like a great idea), I worry
about this being the start of a flood of dumb money into startups. I wouldn't
consider myself knowledgable enough to invest in a new startup and I follow
tech news; what happens when everyone with a few extra dollars tries to spot
the next Google?

~~~
Major_Grooves
I was invested by crowd-funding via a platform in the UK, called Seedrs. I
have 60 investors and raised £30k to build my MVP. I think at this level of
funding (which is different from Angelist syndicates - I think Seedrs is £150k
max) there is no real dumb money. I just needed the sort of money that people
from wealthy backgrounds dismissively refer to as "friends and family" money.

As it turns out my investors range from millionaire entrepreneurs, city
lawyers, to my mate's girlfriend. It's great to start off with 60 super-fans
that have a vested interest in promoting you to their network.

------
graeme
Just came here to submit this. It's a fascinating development. He's pulling an
end-run around mid-level VCs.

Tim has a good eye for startups + the ability to personally boost their
efforts + get them publicity. Now he can get them money without the hassle of
individual negotiation with investors.

Can someone more knowledgeable comment: is there a maximum amount of money
this can be used for? Or could this conceivably be used for much larger rounds
as well?

~~~
prostoalex
[https://angel.co/help/syndicates](https://angel.co/help/syndicates)

It could be used for larger rounds, but there's understandable fear about
"lead-less" rounds.

------
jessepollak
Two random thoughts:

1\. Shyp is raising $2+ mil at a $5mil valuation — doesn't that seem a little
iffy for a first round.

2\. I hate it when people capture my scroll, please stop that.

Other than that, Shyp looks awesome and syndicates looks great.

------
VladRussian2
that blog post looks and reads like a typical "make huge money working from
home"/"buy this investment report" webpage for me. Even the similar green/lime
colors.

------
pdfcollect
$5 apart from already high postage?

------
7Figures2Commas
The new general solicitation rules permit a _company_ to solicit investment
publicly if certain requirements are met. One of those requirements is that
the company file a Form D with the SEC 15 days before its offering is
advertised, so I don't see how it's possible for a company to be soliciting
publicly _today_.

IANAL but I would be incredibly uncomfortable as a founder if one of my
investors was taking the new rules to mean that _he_ could solicit investment
publicly on my company's behalf.

~~~
pbreit
Maybe they submitted the Form D 15 days ago?

~~~
7Figures2Commas
There's none that I can find on sec.gov.

~~~
pbreit
[http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Sec+form+d](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Sec+form+d)

But I suspect you'd get such a thing from a lawyer.

~~~
7Figures2Commas
Apparently you didn't understand my comment. The company is Shyp Inc.

[http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-
edgar?company=shyp&match=c...](http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-
edgar?company=shyp&match=contains&filenum=&State=&Country=&SIC=&myowner=exclude&action=getcompany)

"No matching companies."

------
snowwrestler
Looks like a great deal for Tim Ferriss: more leverage with a 20% upside and
no downside.

~~~
pierrebai
That is slightly incorrect, at least if one takes "slightly" to mean "widly".
Actually, as the blog points out, he invests 25K while the invited investors
can pitch in up to a totla of 250K. He gets 20% of any profit off this 250k,
which is 10 times his own investment. So for every point of profit on his own
investment, he gets two additional point back (250K/25k x 20% = 200%). That's
a nice scheme were there is no increase in risk yet there is 3x the return on
investment he'd normally get. So, for a corral of startup that would net 5% on
average, he'd get 15% average instead. No additional cash nor risk involved.
Meanwhile, the invited get 4% instead of 5%. Would you invest in a scheme were
the risk are the same but the return 20% less? Yet again, the riches get
richer.

