
BBC News - Sceptics stage homeopathy 'overdose' to discredit drugs - alexandros
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8489019.stm
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poutine
What gets me is that this BBC article portrays this as an even debate with two
reasoned sides where it's obvious that they're just bloody sugar pills. Shame
on you BBC.

Pseudoscience like this can cause people to delay seeking real treatment until
their ailments are severe. This increases the risk to the patient, the cost of
treatment and even some deaths where treatment is not sought until too late.

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eru
Yes. Although on the other hand, well-accepted placebos can cure people.

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poutine
The placebo effect is overstated and misunderstood by many. Further, using the
placebo effect to treat sick people is unethical and ineffective. It should
not be available through pharmacies.

For a greater and more educated discussion on the placebo effect (by a
respected neurologist) please see:

<http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=24>

~~~
Alex3917
"There is no compelling evidence that the mind can create healing simply
through will or belief."

IIRC Daniel Goleman's book Emotional Intelligence cites studies showing that
if you swap out a person's medicine with a placebo, their body will actually
keep producing the same antibodies or whatever.

I think the same book also cites studies showing that how many calories a
person's body absorbs depends as much on the taste of the food as it does on
the caloric content. So, for example, if you put steak and mashed potatoes in
a blender then the person drinking that will gain less weight than they would
if they ate the same caloric amount in normal form.

What's more, just recently there was an article showing that hotel maids
actually start losing weight if you tell them that their jobs count as
exercise, even though they weren't actually exercising any more than they were
before:

[http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1779251...](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17792517)

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chancho
Reposting awesome comment from Astro Zombie on the Metafilter thread about
this:

"This experiment was already attempted by the daughter of Billy Joel and
Christie Brinkley, who downed a handful of sleeping pills in a suicide attempt
in December. However, the pills were homoepathic, so not only did she not
manage to kill herself, but she didn't even manage to get a good night's
sleep."

[http://www.metafilter.com/88593/Dont-drink-the-extremely-
dil...](http://www.metafilter.com/88593/Dont-drink-the-extremely-diluted-
KoolAid#2918101)

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sjh
The protesters are trusting that the process by which the pills are prepared
doesn't introduce some other substance which is toxic when consumed in
relatively large quantities.

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carbocation
In the inverted homeopathic world, wouldn't it be even more bold to take
1/100th of a pill?

~~~
cabalamat
Or none at all. BTW I have some homeopathic whiskey, it's really strong, 0%
alcohol!

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motters
Homeopathy is just medical charlatanry. The NHS spending on it is wasted
public money.

~~~
Alex3917
If it keeps people from abusing antibiotics then I'd say it's money well
spent. Unless you'd prefer getting MRSA.

The only people getting these 'drugs' are the ones who seek them out. And if
it makes them feel better, then why give them real medicine with real side
effects? Side effects which, in aggregate, would cost billions to deal with.

Dollar for dollar homeopathic medicine is probably the single best use of NHS
money.

~~~
silencio
> If it keeps people from abusing antibiotics then I'd say it's money well
> spent. Unless you'd prefer getting MRSA.

It's the healthcare professionals that should be stopping people from taking
antibiotics like candy. It's everyone else that should understand that having
an unhealthy sense of entitlement to whatever drugs they can get is a bad
thing.

> And if it makes them feel better, then why give them real medicine with real
> side effects? Side effects which, in aggregate, would cost billions to deal
> with.

Because people have suffered needlessly and even _died_ as a result of
ignoring good advice from their doctors in lieu of this quack medicine. How
much extra is being spent because they waited forever for whatever they had to
go away with homeopathy but it didn't and maybe even got worse? If it was only
something as trivial as a case of the common cold or something I don't think
people would be arguing too much with you. But there are people out there
seeking these out as a substitute for things as serious as cancer treatment.

~~~
Alex3917
I don't disagree with anything you're saying. My assumption was that if the
NHS was paying for it, then it was probably because doctors were recommending
it on a case-by-case basis. But I haven't seen the data on how specifically
it's being used.

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papaf
"Homeopathy never works any better than a placebo."

Which is still pretty good - provided you have some belief in the placebo.

~~~
koningrobot
Unless you get ill after taking the placebo. This is called the nocebo effect.

~~~
koanarc
Not quite. Placebo response: "I think this will make me better, so I get (or
feel) better" Nocebo response: "I think this will make me sick, so I get sick"

Interesting (if somewhat anecdotal) article on the nocebo response in relation
to voodoo hexes, etc: [http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20227081.100-the-
scien...](http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20227081.100-the-science-of-
voodoo-when-mind-attacks-body.html)

I thought I discovered this article via a comment thread on HN last month, but
can't seem to find it, now.

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sketerpot
Since homeopathy is a form of sympathetic magic, you're perfectly justified in
calling homeopaths "witch doctors". Which is awesome, because I've always
wanted to call a quack a witch doctor and be correct.

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GiraffeNecktie
I don't see how this "discredits" homeopathy. From the homeopathy viewpoint,
the remedies themselves are not considered (i.e. by homeopaths) to be drugs,
or even equivalent to drugs, and taking large doses wouldn't be expected to
have any particular effect. It's a bit of a straw man argument like saying
"Your cheese isn't really chalk because I can't write on the blackboard." But
I never said it was chalk or that it's purpose was to write on blackboards.
What have you really proved except that it's not a drug, which was never in
question.

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dutchflyboy
Well, it is sold as a drug, in the sense that on the package it says that it
cures a sickness, which is the point of a drug. I'm not saying that it doesn't
work (sometimes the placebo effect is everything you want, for example when a
child hurts himself, he'll be happy as soon as he has taken a pill, no matter
which one), but I think it's a bit strange to sell a bit of sugar with a very
small quantity of active substance for 1000 times the production cost.

~~~
GiraffeNecktie
>>it's a bit strange to sell a bit of sugar with a very small quantity of
active substance for 1000 times the production cost.

Hey, it works for Coca Cola.

:)

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scotty79
Third verse of this song tells all about the homeopathy that is to know:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBUc_kATGgg>

