
The War to Sell Mattresses Is an Internet Nightmare (2017) - yesplorer
https://www.fastcompany.com/3065928/sleepopolis-casper-bloggers-lawsuits-underside-of-the-mattress-wars
======
russellbeattie
My favorite conspiracy theory (which I totally believe) is that mattress
stores are mostly for money laundering. No market can possibly support as many
stores as there are, and every time I go by one, they're empty. It's probably
because I don't understand the economics of the industry, but wow are there a
lot of mattress stores. I know we all need to sleep, but spending $2,000 once
every 10 years can't be a reliable source of income. Plus people will sleep on
anything rather than lay out that sort of cash.

I personally, at 47, have never bought a new bed except a Ikea, from which
I've bought several, all for much less than $2k.

~~~
Scoundreller
Bed or mattress? I’ve been happy with IKEA mattresses, but I’ve found the
random importers’ softwood beds advertised in the classified ads to be better
than Ikea’s particle board. And a lot easier to assemble.

~~~
baroffoos
I got my wood frame thing and mattress from ikea. The mattress is perfectly
fine but the wood gets dented/chipped very easily.

------
umvi
I remember not too long ago a legal fight between Purple and an "honest guy
with concerns about the chemicals used in Purple mattresses" and then it
turned out the "honest guy" was a GhostBed mattress affiliate or something. I
had no idea it was so cutthroat across the board.

Edit: a summary of the spat I mentioned:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/shittykickstarters/comments/69zqcx/...](https://www.reddit.com/r/shittykickstarters/comments/69zqcx/purple_mattress_suing_reviewer_over_safety/)

~~~
SlowRobotAhead
To be entirely fair - iirc the purple mattresses did have a powder inside
them, and they were microbeads.

If Ford tells me my GM leaks gas, and they’re right, that’s fine with me.

~~~
williamdclt
I wouldn't appreciate them pretending to be "just an honest guy with concerns"
though

------
floren
Here's my favorite quote:

> Kenny Kline and Dan Scalco swore that Casper wouldn’t touch the site.
> Casper’s Philip Krim told me the same: “We exert no influence and have no
> influence over the site, other than that we lent them money.”

I smiled at that part, and then read on to the next paragraph:

> The new owners of Sleepopolis did disclose on the site: “Until the loan is
> satisfied, Casper has the contractual right to repossess the assets and
> forgive the remaining value of the loan…yes, that was written by our lawyers
> ;).” Repossess the assets: in other words, take over Sleepopolis, if it came
> to that. But Krim said this was just “lawyer language protecting our loan,
> so we get paid back.”

Wowzers!

There's all this stuff advertised in podcasts (mattresses, clothes, underwear,
meal prep, snacks) which seems to be aimed at young professionals who hate the
idea of having to go into a physical store and talk to a physical person. When
the podcast man reads a script saying "Casper mattresses are WAY cheaper than
what you'd get in a store!", I guess you're not supposed to comparison-shop
and see that the Casper is $950 for a queen... which is pretty much exactly
what we paid for a perfectly nice Serta memory foam mattress at a store 1 mile
from our house, which included delivery and installation.

~~~
lsc
I'm not sure anyone is fooled by the "It's cheaper" \- but there are a lot of
us who will pay a reasonable premium to not have to go to the store and deal
with salespeople in person, and personally... I think that's a reasonable
luxury to buy?

I mean, even if salespeople weren't... salespeople, it's still often a good
several hours of time during business hours to drive to the store that has the
thing you want, and I personally have a really hard time telling you how much
I will like a mattress without sleeping on it for a week, anyhow, so I don't
feel like I'm getting any value out of shopping in person.

~~~
pathartl
I like to shop online and stay out of stores partly due to the time savings,
but also because of anxiety. I agree that buying online is a luxury and a
reasonable premium is attached to that, but I disagree that the price should
be comparable to in-store.

For a company that is essentially the manufacturer and retailer, there should
be quite a bit of overhead removed for them. I'm really disliking this trend
where ecommerce-based manu-tailers are seen as premium brands and can increase
their margins more than the other guys and make hand over fist. To me, it's
even worse than slimy car dealers or furniture stores.

~~~
lsc
Note, walmart has a wide selection of extremely cheap mail-order mattresses.
No idea if they are any good, but if you are looking to save money on a
mattress, it's probably worth doing some research.

~~~
adamzk
I got a memory foam mattress from Costco for under 200 delivered and I was
quite satisfied. It also rolls up to about 2ft diameter.

------
bauc
Relevant Adam ruins.. (The Mattress Industry is One Big Rip-Off)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvlA9UxGvSg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvlA9UxGvSg)

~~~
coverband
Thanks for the link - that was exceptionally fun to watch!

------
SlowRobotAhead
My small city has 20 or so mattress stores I can think of. They’re always
empty, having “seasonal sales”, have people working them that follow you
around the store, no direct prices but “I’ll go look that up” and “box spring
included this week!”... I hated mattress shopping.

The best thing to happen to mattresses, was that someone figured out you can
roll them up and ship them direct.

The fallout from that discovery of Purple vs Casper vs Avacado (my pick, love
it) vs whatever... don’t care so long as I never need to go into a mattress
store again.

~~~
briandear
I agree. I happen to love Casper, but regardless of who you pick, the mattress
in a box thing is great because mattress stores are all slimy to me.

~~~
tyu1000
I went with Leesa, same reasons for going online, also has worked well for me.

------
SketchySeaBeast
That's so bizarre. A couple of weeks ago my wife and I bought a mattress (the
one we currently had was starting to draw blood from a broken spring) and
didn't think about going online. We went into a store, tried a couple, did a
quick google search price match, and decided we'd take it. I never even
considered online.

I was trying to do research after the fact (cause why would you do it BEFORE
you bought something) and found that I couldn't find any sites that screamed
"objective" to me - it all seemed like a bunch of sites that were advertising
far more than reviewing.

~~~
DanBC
> We went into a store, tried a couple, did a quick google search price match,

Even this is tricky, because they'll sell the same matress as "super deluxe"
in one store and "premium super" in another store.

~~~
Maximus9000
Is there a website somewhere that helps you navigate the fact that the same
mattress will have different names at different stores?

~~~
izzydata
That seems unlikely because every mattress store is its own thing with its own
made up names. I imagine there are some tags somewhere on these mattress with
some kind of product model that you could look up to see where it actually
came from.

It would be a lot of work to organize this mess of information.

------
JohnFen
The mattress industry (in the US, anyway) is disgustingly scammy. I think it's
at least on par with used car dealerships.

I avoid it by buying refurbished mattresses from local charitable
organizations.

I've never bought a mattress online, but I see little reason to think those
guys are any better.

~~~
rchaud
I am happy to do this regarding furniture, but mattresses is a tough sell for
me. Aren't you worried about bedbugs?

~~~
JohnFen
No, I buy them refurbished. They strip the mattresses and boxsprings down to
the wood and wire, disinfect them, then replace the fabric/padding/etc with
new materials.

It's essentially no different than newly built. I've been buying these for
decades and have never had an issue with bedbugs or any other nastiness.

They are less expensive, but not dramatically so. But I get a quality bed,
don't have to deal with mattress shops, and get a little bit of feel-good from
helping to employ people who otherwise have difficulty finding work.

And they deliver.

~~~
folli
I find it interesting that they are able to sell them cheaper than new
mattresses, which I assume are built in a high-throughput factory.

~~~
JohnFen
As russh says, part of this is that new mattresses are overpriced.

When I first investigated these things, I had asked them how, since they're
only keeping the wood and wire, they can sell them at a discount. What they
told me was that first, the beds they're refurbushing were originally donated
to them, so cost them nothing. Also, since they employ people who are
otherwise unemployable, they pay minimum wage, which keeps labor costs down.
And thirdly, the government considers them a nonprofit work creation program
and provides a certain amount of subsidy for the wages.

------
tyu1000
This is a many-times repost but still a good read. I've gotten to the point
where I only trust Wirecutter/Consumer Reports reviews of anything.

~~~
mhb
Yes, but it's a little hard to know what to do when you go to look at their
top-rated items and there are tons of negative reviews. That has been my
experience recently looking at the highly rated Bluetooth receivers on
Wirecutter and ranges on Consumer Reports. There aren't that many total
reviews on Consumer Reports though, so maybe the complainers there are overly
represented.

------
devonkim
I showed this article to our director of sales a while ago and he was amazed
at how crazy the industry is. Not sure what I can really do amidst all this to
avoid validating the aggressive tactics by these folks besides avoiding buying
a mattress that is ever advertised or reviewed in any way but that’s hard to
do now too.

~~~
Retric
I just go with ikea who happens to sell mattresses without it being their main
revenue source. If you want really cheap, DIY foam pads are cheap, but so are
water beds.

~~~
deaps
We have an ikea spring mattress in our spare room - and it's _really_
comfortable. It came rolled up just like a foam mattress does.

------
kevindong
> Casper’s sales topped $200 million last year, though it declines to say
> whether it is profitable. Fortune has estimated Casper’s annual marketing
> budget to be $80 million.

If true, that's absolutely insane---spending ~40% of your revenue on
marketing.

~~~
taco_emoji
Well as they quote in the article:

    
    
        You have to be a strong marketer to be in the mattress industry, because they’re really selling identical, rectangular slabs.

~~~
kevindong
A valid point for sure. But as a consumer, I'd strongly prefer it if they
spend very little on marketing and instead pass the savings onto me.

------
fawnzworth
Costco mattresses ftw

~~~
djstein
I think Costco even sells Casper now [https://www.costco.com/Casper-Memory-
Foam-Queen-Mattress.pro...](https://www.costco.com/Casper-Memory-Foam-Queen-
Mattress.product.100428876.html)

------
counternotions
I bought an online bed-in-a-box after this HN post in 2013 and still very
happy with it:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6900625](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6900625)

------
CharlesDodgson
I really liked this article, I bought one in Warren Evans, it's the only
product I can remember buying that has came with a 10 year guarantee.

~~~
JazCE
Haven't they now gone bust? I might be wrong.

~~~
bauc
Yes, sadly. Bought our bed and mattress from there 5 years ago and think we
will have it more many years more.

------
interfixus
Turning 60, I have yet to learn appreciation for this product niche. A decent
foam-rubber thingy costs me next to nothing, can be rolled up and put in the
car boot, and will last me several years, call it four or five.

Also: [https://xkcd.com/2096/](https://xkcd.com/2096/)

~~~
jstarfish
Futons are underrated as well. Foldable and disposable. Saves a ton of space
in the room.

Mattresses are oversized sanitary napkins but people keep them around far
longer than they should because they pay so much for them.

~~~
stronglikedan
I've slept on quite a few futons, especially in college, and I've never slept
on one that I would consider comfortable, only merely better than the floor.

------
gadders
Previous discussion:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15488618](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15488618)

------
et2o
The one thing let's not neglect is that these actually are really nice
mattresses.

I just spent a week at a 5-star Hawaiian resort where they (I saw and asked
them) change out the mattresses monthly ... My mattress at home that I ordered
online was far nicer.

~~~
fredley
Yup, I have one (I won't say which brand - they're all pretty much the same
idea) and the reduction in movement transmition was amazing. My partner gets
up in the night usually, and the reduction in disturbance from that was huge.

