

Ask HN: Anyone else doing a non-software startup? - jeremymcanally

My wife and I recently kicked off http://wickhamhousebrand.com to sell men's accessories.  Throughout the setup, business development, and so on I've used tons of stuff I've learned from HN in one way or another: culled marketing and business tips from the popular blogs here, developed software for running it using stuff I found out about from HN users, etc.<p>I'm always interested in people's software startup stories, but I can't help but wonder: is anyone else doing something similar?<p>Have other resources to share?  Interested in some sort of "Getting Real in Other Markets" group or something?  I know there have to be others who aren't necessarily doing "The Next Big Social Network 4.0™" but still hang around here for advice and ideas. :)
======
nkurz
I got out of computer programming a few years ago hoping to do something more
tangible. From my interest in food, I ended up starting a sorbet business:
<http://screamsorbet.com>. After two years, we're up to about a dozen
employees, running about break even, and we're starting to get some good
press: [http://tmagazine.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/08/we-made-it-
our...](http://tmagazine.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/08/we-made-it-ourselves-
scream-sorbet).

Our strength is definitely product quality, stemming from our attention to
detail, knowledge of theory, and direct ingredient sourcing. Our weaknesses
are primarily lack of sufficient initial funding, launching a gourmet product
into a weak economy, and our general lack of business savvy. Did I mention
that the product is good?

While there are definitely overlaps between the thought process of programming
and that of business development, every time I have to deal with a regulatory
agency I definitely long for the orderliness of a xterm. Many days I hope that
"spend time working on your weaknesses" turns out to be a good long-term
personal strategy.

If you're in the Bay Area and like good food, do check us out. We're opening a
store in Oakland in the next few weeks, and are at Farmers' Markets from Santa
Cruz to Marin. Or if you're a frozen dessert fanatic somewhere else, we ship
overnight on dry ice, although the shipping costs can be rather steep.

~~~
bigohms
your product kicks ass. was in the sf for business and pleasure (from the east
coast) and randomly stopped to have some (I am a sorbet fanatic). it was a
real treat and probably the most memorable thing my wife and i had the whole
time.

~~~
nkurz
Considering what else SF has to offer, that's a wonderful compliment. Thanks!

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simonsarris
I was about to buy your scarf until I got to the 'paypal' point :/

Could you add some more payment options? (It may also be worth tracking the
number of people who get to the checkout page and then leave)

Please also make the 'more pictures' larger (or have thumbnails of all the
photos), as it wasnt too clear at first that there were more. I like how BR
does it:

[http://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/product.do?cid=35356...](http://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/product.do?cid=35356&vid=0&pid=789134&scid=789134022)

(thumbnails with mouseover)

Other than that, bravo!

~~~
jeremymcanally
Yup as my sibling reply noted, you can just use a CC with no PayPal account.
Otherwise, feel free to send me an Amazon Gift Card for the amount of the
purchase (I think that'd end up being like $28 with shipping) to my e-mail
(and a follow-up message with your address) and I'll get that going right out
to you!

------
kirpekar
I run a small auto-brokerage / used car dealership called Autolicious, Inc (
<http://autolicio.us> ). This is my night/weekend gig and is very slightly
profitable, although nowhere close to a successful business.

Here are some of my thoughts I'd like to share, especially applicable to a
non-software startup:

1\. Focus on selling. I know you can just tweet it, or FB update it, but
selling something is difficult. Giving something away for free is easy. So
don’t focus on getting 100,000 page views. Get only 10 visitors, BUT, convert
ALL those into paying customers.

2\. Most of my customers come from word-of-mouth. So the website is only a
gateway for the random customer to come in. The whole-and-soul of my business
is taking care of the customer, so that he or she recommends me to someone
else. I focus on that, instead of adding a slick new feature to the website.
The website, as such, is a MVP... something to keep me floating, till I make
some money.

3\. There are some big (YC backed) players in my field now. They have a huge
lead (and huge money), so I clearly cannot take them on at their game. The
only way I can survive, is by differentiating myself and that’s what I’m
primarily doing.

------
leftnode
Yup, I sell firearms, accessories, and ammunition -
<http://www.dallasshootingsupplies.com> (I'm also doing software based
startups since they're equally as fun).

It's awesome, I've learned a ton, and the firearm industry is met with it's
own difficulties.

~~~
sspencer
Worlds collide! I bought some Magpul magazines from you a year or so ago. Your
outfit was great to deal with; highly recommend it to anyone else on here.

And in case you are tracking your marketing effectiveness, I first heard about
you on the SA forums.

~~~
leftnode
Awesome! It's cool hearing stuff like that. I've learned a ton about marketing
here on HN and going to make 2011 a great year.

------
arthurdent
I know trading isn't a popular topic, but I consider quantitative finance my
one man startup.

I have to wear a lot of hats, am constantly learning new things, get frequent
feedback that I have to use to refine my product, can't do everything so I
have to choose what things I'm going to spend effort on and what things can be
suboptimal. Release early and release often and I'm playing against better
funded often slower moving incumbents.

~~~
roel_v
Do you mean you have your own funds and trading algos? What kind of strategies
do you follow? I assume 'traditional' HFT is out of reach for a one-man show,
no? I've thought for a while now that there must be opportunities in niche
markets that aren't profitable enough for big players to get into, but that
someone with knowledge of the industry can exploit. I'd love to hear some
details on what you do, and what kind of money you make!

~~~
arthurdent
I have my own trading algos, but I do not trade my own funds.

I have a single investor, so you could imagine that he's the web startup
equivalent of an angel or venture capitalist. He's extremely knowledgeable
about markets, and we keep open lines of communication about what I'm doing.
He trusts that I'm a good founder and that I'm doing my best to capitalize on
market opportunities, but he never tells me what to do. However, if I want his
advice or access to his resources, he's happy to share.

It isn't HFT in the traditional sense (or maybe not any sense), but I do tend
to prefer opportunities that are quantitative in nature and spend a lot of
time programming.

Right now I'm making laughably small amounts of money (non-negative, but
insufficient to support me), but I'm hoping that that will change soon. Again,
very much like a startup -- I take a hit on the salary and stability because I
want increased exposure to the success upside. And like a startup, my
investor(s) win if I win.

However, I've recently seen an opportunity to join another such "startup"
(currently 2 guys) and I'm considering that, which might be the death of my
own little trading startup.

~~~
roel_v
Thanks. I have a few more questions if you don't mind :)

"Right now I'm making laughably small amounts of money (non-negative, but
insufficient to support me)"

Is this because of lack of volume (i.e., fund too small), or because of algo
quality issues? Do you try to compete with the big boys heads-on (in generic
stock trading) or do you specialize, trying to add market knowledge to your
model?

I guess my question is, do you have purely statistical models or do you try to
model process-based, with information from outside the exchange feed?

How do you handle this technically? Do you have direct access to a broker API?
Don't the fees kill you on that?

------
il
I created a nutritional supplement to help me code longer and be more
productive:

<http://www.getinstantfocus.com>

It's been an incredible learning experience in terms of building an ecommerce
business from the ground up and putting all of the pieces together.

Plus I got to code a custom CRM for the backend because I couldn't find
anything to fit my needs.

But I'm running into the serious limitations of having a physical product
business-inventory, shipping, returns, phone support, etc. For example, due to
various regulatory and logistical issues I can only sell to the United States,
which severely limits my market size...I've had to turn away more than a few
Canadians...so I'll be jumping into the SaaS startup world soon.

ECommerce is a LOT of work- for anyone choosing between selling a physical
product or software, unless you have an awesome idea I would recommend
software- a lot of the issues traditional stores face are automatically taken
care of in a webapp.

~~~
reynolds
I used to deal with products like this quite a bit. There's a huge segment of
the industry that is involved in rebill scams and are almost impossible to
cancel. Is your product like that as well? It looks exactly like the type of
landing page that does scammy rebills for "free" trial offers.

~~~
il
It's a simple sale, no rebill or free trial just one charge of the purchase
price.

I use that landing page style because it converts better than anything else I
have tested :)

------
takrupp
We run a portable hookah pipe business: <http://HoboHookah.com>. Its pretty
boutique, been around for 3 years. Its still a profit loser, but we've been
featured on Thrillist, Swagapalooza (YC), WNBC (NY NBC affiliate) and Le
Grande Fooding.

Whats been tough? Our first product was over priced by the manufacturer
(although high quality) which did not make the first run profitable in any
way. The other thing is lack of understanding of retail and manufacturing. We
had no idea how the whole retail / wholesale / distributor / manufacturer
business worked.

We've learned a lot (as they say: Starting a business is the cheapest MBA
money can buy) and I think we'll be able to get profitable in 6-months and
probably be able to exit in 2-3 years (there are some ideal buyers for the
business).

------
masterj
My dad is trying to set up woodworking business selling hand-sculpted rocking
chairs. He's great at the woodworking, but doesn't have the slightest clue how
to start, run, or market a business. I'm leaving my job at the end of the
month so I'll be able to help him organize finances and set up a proper
website, but it's really out of my expertise as well. All I've had a chance to
do so far is set up a wordpress blog for him to play around with:
<http://morrellwoodworks.com/>

The chairs he builds are _really_ nice though. He does everything by hand. Ex:
[http://morrellwoodworks.com/wp-content/gallery/double-
rocker...](http://morrellwoodworks.com/wp-content/gallery/double-
rocker/dsc04024_resized.jpg)

~~~
jeremymcanally
Wow, you rarely see that amount of craftsmanship these days. It's really great
to see more businesses like that spring up simply because it's easy to get
started and get your message out there thanks to the Internet.

------
paulsingh
I run gas stations. My underhanded motive for buying it earlier this year was
to learn how the processes work and then develop products for this particular
niche.

It's profitable and, on most days, pretty fun. :)

~~~
aonic
This sounds like a good thing to get into. Any tips for someone looking to get
into it?

~~~
paulsingh
Yeah, it's not too bad -- just need to be _really_ careful before you bite the
bullet. I wrote about the steps I took here:
[http://www.resultsjunkies.com/blog/how-to-buy-a-small-
busine...](http://www.resultsjunkies.com/blog/how-to-buy-a-small-business/)

------
dejv
I am runing small winery. (4500 bottles of wine/year)

It is fun and if business go wrong you can always drink your end product. Ask
anything if you like.

~~~
city41
Can you give some super introductory pointers on how to start a "physical"
business like this? My girlfriend and I have been batting around some coffee
related ideas, but this domain is completely foreign to us.

~~~
dejv
It was very simple in my case. Few generations of my family are making wine,
so we own vineyards, wine cellar, equipment and such. Now it is just plain
work, experimentations and more work.

It is actually very similar to software business: start small, create some
product, learn from your mistakes and iterate.

You don't need tons of fancy equipment and huge infrastructure from the
beginning.

------
crsmith
Non-software startup entrepreneurs:

What are your Hacker News alternatives? What forums do you use?

------
WillyF
The OP should take a look at Bonobos. They're a startup in the same space, and
they could offer a good partnership opportunity. They sell a lot of other
companies' products.

~~~
mattparcher
Sorry, I accidentally down-voted you. To the contrary, your comment is
thoughtful and helpful.

------
genieyclo
Running a Somali restaurant that the family bought. It's very tough, and with
lots of gotchas. Would not recommend for the common person, but if you're
dedicated, fast, sharp-eyed, have cash, and find a good location, go for it.

------
nmcfarl
We at <http://CastingWords.com> are an interesting hybrid. We sell human
transcription - everything we do is done by hand, and our costs are per item
sold, much like a physical product.

Of course we also do it via CrowdSourcing so we're nicely techy, and
buzzwordy. But boy is it not a software gig in the traditional sense.

~~~
bigohms
nice site design.

------
davidcann
We're doing hardware... a toy for kids that connects to your iPod/iPhone:
<http://xachipet.com>

~~~
thetrumanshow
Very neat product. This further reinforces the idea that an iPod Touch is
probably the right gift idea for my son this Christmas... and maybe this
product next Christmas.

~~~
davidcann
Thanks, Barry! Hardware can be a challenge as a startup, but we're almost
there.

------
WillyF
My startup is the employment industry, but it's more of a media property than
a job board.

My sites are:

<http://www.onedayonejob.com/> <http://www.onedayoneinternship.com/>
<http://www.foundyourcareer.com/>

The beautiful think about a content business is that it's much easier to build
traffic—especially through SEO. I've seen a ton of employment industry
startups fail because they built software that they couldn't market (I'm not
sure that the software was very good either).

~~~
TomK32
funny that HN wouldn't link httP://example.com :D

~~~
WillyF
That is really odd. I just fixed my link, but I figured that I'd respond so
you that your comment still makes sense.

------
waterside81
I started <http://www.littleheroes.com> a little over a year ago. It's
personalized books for kids. Running a company that involves "real" stuff
definitely has its challenges (sourcing suppliers, shipping, customs etc.) but
on the plus side, I enjoy the fact that we create something real and that our
business model is simple and doesn't rely on AdSense or premium subscriptions.

With that said, we are making an iPad app because our customers want our books
to read on-the-go for their kids.

~~~
neovive
Very nice. I write children's books as a hobby and was wondering how you
select books for your service.

------
zipstudio
I'm involved in a non software startup called WickWerks. We make high
performing bicycle parts. <http://www.wickwerks.com>

------
pmichaud
I run a small publishing company that mostly sells physical books. We're not
really consumer facing for the most part so we have no site yet, but we'll
shortly open to manuscript submissions from outside authors, so our public
site is very nearly ready.

------
justlearning
'needmoney' runs a bakery - even thanked us after HN helped him get his
'startup- stable.

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1772205>

------
slmbrhrt
I'm trying to get a couple (not video) games made and onto store shelves. I'm
past the playtesting stage for one game and I'm looking to hire art from some
locals artists, because I need a good-looking demo to show to publishers or
distributors. I'm not so much a startup as a messy desk and closet for now,
but I'm making slow progress because I'm pretty much feeling around in the
dark and making my own mistakes.

------
mmt
I was about to pipe up that I've been working on a non-software product, not
yet a startup, but it's not quite as "out there"[1] as yours, since it's still
primarily based in computer technology.

Still, I expect to face some similar challenges due to the fact that my
initial capital outlay won't be epsilon, unlike with pure software.

[1] That is, divergent from the typical HN startup.

------
trey
I bought a bar

~~~
wan23
How's it working out for you? Any experiences you can share?

------
retroryan
I am taking an existing business on-line that specializes in the marketing
data of team sports (football, baseball, basketball, hockey, etc). I am
looking for a partner to help out so If any one has an interest in team
sports, marketing and technology send me an email.

------
herrherr
It would be interesting to know from where you are purchasing the goods (if
they are not self-made).

Do you get them directly from the manufacturer or do some of you have
experience with importing stuff from China/etc.?

------
ChRoss
My friends and I run a franchised food stall. After few months, we learned
that manpower management is very critical as the turnover rate is very high in
this business. Also stock management, to save operation cost.

------
edawerd
I'm working on a scheduled shuttle service from San Francisco to Oakland
Airport. Was a huge pain point for myself personally to get to the airport.
We're hoping to launch it in time for the holiday travel season!

------
michaelaiello
<http://www.difrwear.com>

Also selling men's accessories (5+ years now) - send me some emails if you
want war stories =)

------
tomwalker
I run www.freshsight.org a third sector organisation related to the Berkley
Group in California. I also run www.mylash.org which has launched recently

------
ChaseB
www.kegstool.com

~~~
codeslush
WOW - What a great idea!!! I love it!!! Not sure how you are marketing this,
but you could do great in anything related to "man-caves" -- super popular in
the midwest and I'm sure other places as well.

------
klbarry
Pretty cool site - best of luck!

I can join in with www.recojeans.com, sustainable, stylish jeans.

Not an equity founder, but as one of the first employees I have a lot of free
reign in planning. HN has been quite useful.

~~~
waterside81
Just checked out your site, I like some of those t-shirts. Might get one.

May I suggest you change the color of the top menu text. Thin blue Arial on a
gray background is hard to read.

