
That Misery Called Meditation - grellas
http://www.slate.com/id/2257585/
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mcantor
My Dad went to a zendo regularly for quite some time, when I was much younger.
As a child, the concept of sitting and only sitting was mysterious to me, so I
asked him why he did it. He told me that he wasn't sure, so he asked the head
teacher at the zendo, and later recounted the exchange to me, which I have
always valued as something of a modern _koan_ in its own right:

Dad: "So, sitting will definitely produce positive results if you do it for
long enough, right? What if I sat for 20 years?"

Master: "You mean, a guaranteed amount of enlightenment, however small?"

Dad: "Exactly."

Master: "The only thing I can guarantee you will get after 20 years of _zazen_
is hemorrhoids."

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philk
I'm not really sure of the benefits of these big one off things; after seven
days meditating you come back into your regular life, surrounded by your old
environment and soon end up reverting to your previous mental patterns.

It seems analogous to going on a running retreat, spending seven days running
all day and then coming home and not running again.

It strikes me that it would be more worthwhile to cultivate the habit of
meditating once a day rather than making a large unsustainable change.

~~~
samatman
Think of meditation as a pot of water you're trying to boil away.

A retreat is a chance to get that pot of water to a boil. Once there, a little
meditation each day will continue to boil the pot.

Without the focused immersion, a little heat each day might never boil the
pot.

Note that this works for languages, physical skills (aikido) and many other
complex tasks.

~~~
Groxx
And going back into the world analogous to having a cold shower. How much is
undone?

~~~
Goladus
I'd say it depends on many factors. If you immediately go out and get hammered
and get very little sleep for a few days in a row, the changes will probably
vanish much more quickly than if you being regularly applying some of the
discipline you learned.

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rikthevik
Does anyone else ever get the desire to throw off the shackles of this Western
society, renounce their possessions and go live in a monastery somewhere?

~~~
pavel_lishin
Yes, especially after reading Anathem.

Then I realize that my refrigerator is full of delicious things, and that my
friends mostly live in Western society.

~~~
mcantor
Desire is the cause of all suffering, but there's also bacon.

~~~
jw84
Attachment is the root of all suffering. The subtlety is that one may want but
clinging onto that desire and not letting go creates pain.

~~~
adammichaelc
Joy can't exist without suffering.

~~~
rokhayakebe
But you do not have to experience a feeling to fully enjoy its opposite.

~~~
dasil003
Define "fully"

~~~
rokhayakebe
I can't.

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novon
I see he went to an IMS retreat, the one I attended around Seattle was good -
until the main teacher came in and gave us a 20 minute speech on why we should
donate more money to his "begging bowl." That kind of ruined it for me... and
they kept asking for donations afterwards. Once these groups become self-
prepetuating institutions it's time to find something else. It's easier just
to incorporate meditation into daily life and activities.

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subwindow
I read the first half of the article just screaming "He's doing it wrong!"
However I later realized that was the entire point of the article.

~~~
chipsy
Indeed. Meditation is kind of funny because it's dead simple - opportunities
to practice it are plentiful - yet people have an incredibly hard time with
it. They're going 90 miles an hour and it's like slamming on the brakes for
them.

For my part, I've decided there's nothing else I'd _rather_ be doing. It's the
only thing in life I can reliably count on to provide a satisfying, enriching
experience. The material/hedonistic experiences are still important to me, and
most of my time is still spent on them, but they're all pretty transient in
comparison.

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roqetman
I spent a few days in a rinzai zen buddhist monastery in upstate New York
about 3 weeks ago. I was also initially skeptical, and in a lot of pain. Doing
the retreat with other newbies, and talking about the experience with the
monks during the informal meetings really helped. I still feel the effects of
it - my crazy schedules at work and tight deadlines just don't seem to bother
me anymore. It's wearing off a bit now, but I still feel much more focused,
peaceful and "together". I highly recommend it. - I only went for 3 days
though, perhaps I'll consider a 7-day retreat someday.

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michael_dorfman
I've never done a 7-day retreat-- 3 days is the most I've tried-- and although
my experience was quite different than the one described here, it definitely
was quite profound.

~~~
danieldk
It seemed very familiar, at least the motions the author has gone through. On
my first retreat, after one day, I was absolutely sure that I wanted to leave.
Sitting was painful, there was a lot of sleepiness, and I was longing for
daily joys such as listening to music. And the mind is very well able to
snowball unpleasanties :). After that first day, when I had the first talk
with the meditation teacher, he made a joke about my mocking, subtle enough to
make me smile. The discontent quickly melted away, and it suddenly became
clear to me that I was suffering because I was craving for pleasantness.

The following week had moments with intense joy, moments with intense pain.
But it became easier to see them without clinging, giving a lot of peace.

It's something definitely worth doing. Though it doesn't hurt starting with
tiny steps, rather than cold-turkey ;).

~~~
michael_dorfman
I've done a number of weekend retreats (and have a daily practice) but
definitely plan on doing a 10-day retreat, when time permits, as I think the
extended timeframe would be quite powerful.

~~~
danieldk
Indeed. But daily practice is something to treasure :).

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alexyim
It seems like you have to have a particular mindset to practice meditation.

For some reason, the concept of meditation is intuitive to me.. an analogy I
feel like making is that it's similar to "reading between the lines." Yet at
the same time, I understand the author's frustrations and I can't think of a
way to make meditation work for him.

Maybe meditation isn't for everyone.

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mannicken
On my winter break last year, I spent two weeks meditating, lucid dreaming,
astral projecting, OOBing, and smoking pot :)

Scariest time of my life. Apparently meditation, when done with some skill is
similar to third plateau of DXM. Doing it everyday made me feel extremely
weird in normal life. Still recovering.

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r0s
Can anyone with experience recommend this kind of meditation to build
discipline?

Stress relief and mindfulness are great but not really my goal. I want more
focus and energy.

~~~
Natsu
> I want more focus and energy.

In that case, I suggest a nap instead.

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devinj
Am I the only person actually scared by what he went through? "Zombie" seems
quite apt. I don't want to be an automaton.

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lacrossegm
Ten to twenty minutes of quiet meditation is a nice stress reliever but an
hour or longer is just wasted time.

~~~
zephjc
It's only wasted time if that's your attitude about it.

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humblepatience
An interesting description of an experience -

all I can say is, a 7 day retreat is probably a really, really bad idea for a
beginner

~~~
swombat
What do you reckon is the ideal way for a beginner to get into meditation,
then? Particularly if that beginner lives in a busy, noisy place like London
and has a busy, time-consuming jobs like running a start-up.

~~~
thomas11
Ideally, you would find a regular meditation group that has one or two weekly
sessions of maybe 30 minutes and some members with experience who can give you
hints. That gives you a commitment to regular practice and a supportive group
of peers without being too invasive. Skipping a week isn't a big deal, either.

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ic3h
I guess you didn't bother to read the article beyond the title.

~~~
edanm
The OP copied the article's name.

~~~
oliveoil
.. which is brilliantly chosen because the article later evolves quite
unexpectedly. (huh, guess I spoiled it now).

