
Young Japanese are surprisingly content - known
https://www.economist.com/news/asia/21737071-they-are-less-so-when-they-think-about-future-young-japanese-are-surprisingly-content
======
sdrothrock
I could have sworn that I wrote a comment, but it looks like I didn't post it.

I think there are at least two kinds of "content" \-- one that stems from
happiness and another that stems from depression.

The former is the good kind, the one we all assume the article is talking
about.

The latter is a resounding "meh" followed by a "who cares."

I've seen a lot of the latter in people in their 20s and early 30s here. The
world's going to shit, the society's going to shit, nobody has money, rent is
expensive, nobody cares. Spend the money now and enjoy hanging out with
friends -- screw retirement and the future because you can deal with it later,
preferably with the pension system.

Who's going to get ahead at work? The old folks are all impressing their own
power structure on the younger folks and making life miserable. Why bust your
ass at work when you can just do your own thing with a bunch of jobs cobbled
together?

So, basically, a lot of the "content" people I see around me around happy with
their lot, they just don't think their lot's going to improve or worth working
on.

This is from a point of view of 11 years in Japan, six years in Tokyo.

~~~
ravenstine
I don't know about Japan, but even in sunbaked places like LA, I can tell
there's a ton of nihilism going on and spreading. Most of the money people
make goes to rent, most jobs are BS and people know this deep down, the only
way to "move up" these days is to _move around_ frequently, and authority
throws up a lot of roadblocks to discourage taking initiative. People act
"content", but the majority don't feel particularly good about their
situation. Our parents owned homes by my generation's age; very few of us own
homes, and while we also don't have the same drive to keep up with the
Joneses, there's still an undercurrent of resentment to the previous
generation that tells us to "pound the pavement" without a clue as to how the
new economy treats young people.

Ask people in their 20s and 30s what they think about the world, and over half
of them will say the world's going to shit in one way or another. I know
people on both sides of the political spectrum that will say that. This isn't
a good sign for society.

Granted, I am not divorced from this phenomenon. There is a lot of things that
my parents' generation did that I don't do because they seem pointless. I'm
not in a relationship, hence not married, no kids, I don't intend on owning a
house with a white picket fence(or any house), I don't have two cars, I don't
go on vacation after vacation, I don't "pound the pavement", etc. All because
I find these things to be "meh", having a low ROI in general.

~~~
TangoTrotFox
> _" Ask people in their 20s and 30s what they think about the world, and over
> half of them will say the world's going to shit in one way or another. I
> know people on both sides of the political spectrum that will say that. This
> isn't a good sign for society."_

Do you know the song, "We didn't Start the Fire"? [1] Great song. It was
released in 1989 - check out the lyrics. Even more interesting though is why
the song was written. [2] Billy Joel was in a recording studio talking to a
friend of John Lennon's son, who was 21 at the time. They had a conversation:

 _\- Friend: It 's a terrible time to be 21 [because the world's going to
shit]

\- Billy Joel: Yeah, I remember when I was 21 – I thought it was an awful time
and we had Vietnam, and y'know, drug problems, and civil rights problems and
everything seemed to be awful.

\- Friend: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's different for you. You were a kid in the
fifties and everybody knows that nothing happened in the fifties.

\- Billy Joel: Wait a minute, didn't you hear of the Korean War or the Suez
Canal Crisis?_

[1] -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g)

[2] -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Didn%27t_Start_the_Fire#His...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Didn%27t_Start_the_Fire#History)

~~~
davesque
Yeah but climate change. That wasn't really an issue in the 80s. Now we all
have to face that fact every day. And don't tell me there's always going to be
something. Climate change is different. Not even remotely like anything
humanity has faced before.

~~~
teslabox
> Yeah but climate change. That wasn't really an issue in the 80s.

The foundational assumption of the modern scientific era (circa 1845) is that
steam engine physics are a fundamental law of the universe. This guiding
constraint is referred to as the "Laws of Thermodynamics"...

Today's scientists have better numbers. Dark energy and dark matter are their
realization that something is wrong with 1845's understanding of the laws of
nature.

------
peepopeep
I asked my Japanese wife for her opinion on this matter and she thinks the
reason Japanese in general are more content is because of the lack of drive
created by class inequality. Generally speaking, Japanese people are fairly
well taken care of by the social systems and there is not a lot of flaunted
wealth unlike in the west. Most Japanese probably see no need to strive and
work too hard because their life is okay by most standards. Food is great,
healthcare won't make one go bankrupt, good service and there's that whole
culture of fitting in "the nail that sticks out must be hammered in". With the
lack of visual class divide, younger people just don't see the point of
working their asses off. They do it at first because that's what they are
taught but once introduced to the very rigid and stressful work environment,
there is little hope of advancement. I think the depression and suicide is a
result of being content - manifesting in frustration and ultimately being
unable to deal with the mundane of every day life (combined with other factors
like frustration with work and or lack of partners).

I tend to agree. I have lived here for a short time but you get a sense of
this just by being around people.

~~~
chrischen
I think there's a huge misconception about the conformity in Japan. Yes there
is obvious conformity on the surface from a cursory glance, but then how do
you explain the innovation that comes out of there? They're super inventive
when it comes to Anime, food, design, and technology and it all stands at
stark odds with how foreigners perceive them as conformist.

~~~
wavefunction
>when it comes to Anime

I am a fan of anime but I think there's a lot of tepid, derivative or
uncreative anime being created that Westerners aren't completely exposed to.

For example, there are six or seven anime released in the past few years where
the protagonist went to sleep/died and then woke up in a video game world,
either in a game they played IRL or simply somehow were transported to the
world of a video game or a world that behaves as if it is a video game.

They range from inventive and interesting to tedious rip-offs.

~~~
tokyodude
Is that any different than the 10 of the last 15 marvel movies basically being
basically exactly the same?

Heck let's take western indie games where a large percentage of all indie
games are yet another smash brothers clone or a metroidvania clone. There's
probably at most 3 more genres that make up the majority of titles

In other words that there is tons of derivative stuff is not even remotely
unique to Japan.

There's tons of anime that doesn't make it out of Japan (or used to be) as
well of tons of manga that's seriously creative. Walk through a Village
Vanguard store for example.

~~~
krapp
No need to be defensive. There's a ton of interesting and creative anime that
_does_ make it out of Japan as well[0], but as with any mainstream media, the
anime industry is optimized for commerce and not art, so Sturgeon's Law tends
to apply. Anyone with a Crunchyroll account, for instance, notices pretty
quickly how much breadth and how little depth there is to anime.

[0]recommended: Stein's Gate, Psycho Pass, FLCL, Serial Experiments Lain,
Tatami Galaxy, Pop Team Epic, Cowboy Bebop, Akame Ga Kill, Panty and Stocking
with Garterbelt

~~~
tokyodude
I don't see it as defensive. I see it rather as "other bashing". Claiming
Japanese anime has this quality of much of it being clones of other stuff can
only be interpreted 2 ways

1\. This quality is unique or more common in Japanese anime

2\. This is a feature of all media of which Japanese anime is one

If the answer is #2 then there was no reason to say it. It would be like
saying "water is wet in Japan". Of course water is wet everywhere so no point
in even bringing it up.

If it's #1 then we need proof that Japanese anime has more clones than other
media from other countries. I think that proof will be hard to find.
Crunchyroll is not Japan.

~~~
wavefunction
My point was not that various anime is ripping off plots or themes from other
bodies of art outside of anime and is thus derivative, but rather that a fair
amount of anime is ripping off its themes from the superior examples of the
genre.

There is a lot of anime I would rate much higher than pretty much any other
narratives presented in other media formats including my native Hollywood.

------
allthesethings
I definitely got a sense of something like that while visiting earlier this
year. It's a place where things are working as they should, at least on the
surface, so there isn't much to complain about, but it's also built on
momentum and institutions left over from when Japan was the industrial power
of Asia, stuff that just hasn't broken yet, so nobody has reassessed it. And
there's a conflict likely to emerge in that setup, but it's not going to be a
full-blown crisis until later, so "contentment" rules the day.

Contrast with the USA; the crisis - social, economic, political - is here, and
it has been for a while. Everyone has something to scream at each other about.

~~~
mistermann
> it's also built on momentum and institutions left over from when Japan was
> the industrial power of Asia, stuff that just hasn't broken _yet_

Do you have the feeling that it is likely to break, or just noting it as a
risk?

My gut feel is that despite the significant demographic problems, Japan has
one of the better societies for weathering the increasingly rapid changes
modern societies are subject to. But keeping it that way I have no clue how
they do it (or got it the way it is now for that matter).

~~~
antoniuschan99
I watched this movie called Tokyo Sonata which was made a decade ago. It's
part of the J-Horror genre - which isn't scary at all. It just has a very dark
and sombre undertone through the entire film. Definitely an interesting film
that relates to this topic since it was set after the 2008 recession.

------
robotsquidward
Young Japanese are surprisingly content

 _They are less so when they think about the future_

That subtitle completely changes the context of this article.

~~~
anothergoogler
It's just another click-bait title. "Surprisingly"? To whom? Are these the
results of a study? An internet survey? Who knows, better click it!

~~~
FabHK
It's been well known that the country has been plagued by decades of malaise
[1], and people have long been less happy than people in other countries (as
noted in the article).

The surprising news is that there's a significant uptick in reported
contentedness now.

You can accuse The Economist of headlines that are too witty by half
frequently, but not of click-bait.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decade_(Japan)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decade_\(Japan\))

------
JDiculous
> "Around 40% of unmarried Japanese are still virgins at the age of 34."

That's a pretty damning statistic for a secular country. Is that a world
record?

~~~
astrange
Here’s your correction.

> Correction (February 22nd 2018): The original version of this article said
> that around 40% of Japanese were still virgins at the age of 34. In fact,
> that only applies to unmarried Japanese.

They could also be lying on the surveys.

~~~
zingmars
It's pretty odd that a man would lie about being a virgin, but I suppose
that's the western perspective.

~~~
Xixi
There are also two concepts of being a virgin in Japan: never had sex at all,
or only had sex with prostitutes. Depending on how you ask the question, a man
who had sex with prostitutes might still answer that he is a virgin.

~~~
astrange
Yeah, I was thinking that was one reason to lie.

------
NetOpWibby
I remember there being a bunch of articles over the past year about "sexless-
Japan" and I mainly clicked to see if this was yet another one of those dumb
articles.

It's mentioned in passing but I'm not sure why this article was written.
"Young people feel good about life" is a welcome change from the usual "rah
rah, be upset about [bad thing]".

~~~
Razengan
Expect to see the usual breakdowns, anecdotes and armchair analyses of how
they're doing it wrong, and should emulate the "West" in everything which is
clearly without any problems, as seems to be the par for course in any news of
Japan, positive or negative, on non-Japanese forums.

~~~
kgc
The article appears to be the opposite of this.

~~~
Razengan
Yes, but I was referring to the tendency of a few simplistic memes for showing
up in most discussions about Japan: "but what about their suicide rates!",
"but their economy isn't growing at a billion dollars an hour!", "but their
declining birthrate!" and so on.

~~~
SCHiM
I think the west can learn a great number of things from Japan. For example
their streets (in Tokyo) are the cleanest of any major city I've ever visited.
It is a huge sign and deserving of respect that a society can make sure their
streets are clean.

The fact that the bidet/spray toilet is used is imo a big indicator of
sophistication and significantly superior in every way to toilet paper.

But then again, there's dumb things too: they plant trees underneath
powerlines ^^ Maybe that subsides jobs?

Awesome country.

~~~
NetOpWibby
YES!

It is so. Damn. CLEAN. I’ve hated the concept of littering since I was a
little kid and it pisses me off to see peope who don’t respect their
environment.

I was able to spend two weeks in Japan last year and boy, it was glorious. I
also like how it’s illegal to smoke while walking. You have to go to a
designated smoking area.

~~~
Razengan
Indeed. A place where people in general actually don't WANT to litter to begin
with, instead of one where the government has to continually pick up after
them and cleanliness has to be enforced by fines etc., must be so refreshing
to live in just for that alone.

It's even more admirable when you consider that Tokyo has been the world's
largest metropolis by several metrics (at least until recently, but even now
it's #2 or thereby), and compare it with the state of other densely-populated
cities:

[0]
[http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=garbage+in+New+Delhi](http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=garbage+in+New+Delhi)

[1]
[http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=garbage+in+Karachi](http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=garbage+in+Karachi)

~~~
NetOpWibby
Those pics look terrible. Oh my god.

~~~
Razengan
They don’t nearly convey how bad it is to actually live there, which I have.
It’s depressing how so relatively few places really care about keeping a clean
environment.

------
latexr
From the comments on this thread, it seems like the documentary “Japan: A
Story of Love and Hate”[1] might not only be relevant, but also of interest to
many of the commenters.

Coincidentally, I watched it from a recent recommendation on HN[2]. That
comment has a link to stream the movie.

[1]:
[https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1401179/](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1401179/)

[2]:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16779954](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16779954)

------
oh-kumudo
Being content could mean 2 things: optimistic that your situation is great,
your effort is paying off and your life is on the right track or pessimistic
that you accept things won't get better so just enjoy and be grateful for what
you already have.

In case of Japan, it is probably leaning towards the latter. By control, or
contain your desire to reach a state of peace, or inertia. Not really
surprised because Japan, deep inside, is still very much influenced by the
thoughts of Buddhism. Is this really self content? I would like to offer my
share of benefit of doubt.

------
chrischen
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Japan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Japan)

Is the suicide rate really significantly higher than other developed countries
considering it's 5 more suicides per 100,000 people?

The article seems to imply that it's a big problem with it being the leading
cause of death in Japan, but there are few things that can kill you over there
since most people don't drive, and violent crimes are almost non-existent.

~~~
moneybadger
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_r...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate)

The rate has actually fallen to 15 per 100,000 people, which is only 3 more
than the 12 per 100,000 people in the United States. So not great but also
probably not a big enough of a difference to be brought up in every single
conversation about japan like it currently is. South Korea on the other
hand... yikes.

------
dilatedmind
You've reached your article limit

~~~
known
[http://archive.is/IKTvN](http://archive.is/IKTvN)

------
restalis
_" Young people are all too conscious of the social and economic burdens they
will have to shoulder. Over-65s already account for 28% of the population,
almost double the proportion of 15- to 29-year-olds. By 2065 they are
projected to rise to nearly 40%. The welfare system is struggling to keep
up."_

I don't get this. What is supposed to be this so called burden nowadays? What
will elderly people require? Food and medicine? First can be considered cheap,
relative to the amount of employed people. Actually, I'm not sure there will
be needed much more workers than now, if things will continue to improve, we
may expect to need less. Healthcare maybe will require a small increase to
cope with the growing numbers of patients. (But maybe not necessarily so,
considering that the system already serves the current numbers of people and
the population is declining?) The Japanese government already pays for 70% of
healthcare services for working people, how much of a difference will it make
to cover it a little bit more for the old? So what remains there to struggle
with? Some food-stamps and a small increase (relative to already existing
levels) in healthcare subvention? On the other hand, after giving them food
and healthcare, you're pretty much free to cut in pensions as much as you
must. It isn't like there are leases or mortgages to be paid. Not from
pensions, mind you.

~~~
aaavl2821
Elderly people need the same things as all other people, plus more healthcare.
A LOT more. Some studies have shown that over half of a persons total lifetime
healthcare expenditures occur in their senior years

Imagine you kept spending the same you do today, but stopped earning income to
pay for it. Then on top of that your healthcare spend goes up an order of
magnitude. Then imagine this happens to a significant portion of your fellow
countrymen in a short time period

~~~
tonyedgecombe
Do they need it as they age or in the final period of their life? If it's the
later then it isn't really a problem, a year of medical care at 85 isn't much
different from a year at 75. On the other hand if they are consuming
healthcare from 65 until the end of their life then that is a bigger problem.

~~~
aaavl2821
It is both. Roughly one-third of a person's lifetime healthcare costs occur in
middle age, and half occur when they are seniors. This is based on US data
from 2004 but it is a large sample (almost 4M patients)

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1361028/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1361028/)

------
virtuexru
> Japanese youth, like young people the world over, drink less and have less
> sex than previous cohorts of their age. They are far less likely to be
> sexually active than their American counterparts. Around 40% of unmarried
> Japanese are still virgins at the age of 34.

Wow. I had no idea about that, the statistics seem shocking.

------
montyf
Japanese people seem to be in a pretty good place emotionally. They are pretty
closed-off, as I expected, but they're more laid back than people in many
Western countries and definitely much less stressed than Americans. I'm
speaking in generalities here, of course, and I haven't been to Tokyo yet.

> There are several reasons why satisfaction is rising. Partly because of the
> cost of housing, more young people live with their parents. Masahiro Yamada,
> a sociologist, calls them “parasite singles”.

Yeah, accomodation is ridiculously expensive here and it's reflected in the
price of hotels and how _small_ everything is. It was pretty claustrophobic my
first few days here. There's an interesting article[0] talking about the
housing situation but I don't know if it's accurate or not.

> Life is pleasanter in other ways too. On every street corner is a 7-Eleven
> or similar convenience store where young people can buy everything from
> stationery to ready meals (and heat and eat them on the spot), flick through
> manga comics, and buy tickets to baseball matches.

My favorite part of Japan is that you can walk down an average block and
expect to pass a dozen vending machines with coffee, energy drinks, and beer.
Always gives me a good laugh. In this sense life is pretty convenient, but in
Korea it is even more so (their skyscrapers literally have miniature malls in
them).

> Although rapid economic growth is history, they appreciate that living
> standards remain high, and that life (apart from housing) is affordable.

This seems true, stuff like food is not as expensive as I expected (coffee is
a dollar, a sushi dinner for two is 60 dollars maximum and usually more like
20.) Korea was even cheaper, though, and the food was much better.

> That is good news for a country where the word “youth” tends, with good
> reason, to conjure up images of gloomy misfits: hikikomori—people who shun
> society—and otaku—nerds.

Most "otakus" I've seen so far were foreigners and not Japanese. I can't
comment on the number of hikikomoro here, for obvious reasons, but I do think
these are exagerrated stereotypes. Perhaps these stereotypes were more true in
the past.

Just some observations, I've only been here a week. Oh yeah, and Japanese
people drive less, bike more, and tend to be rather fit (or at least not
obese) -- that gives them a big leg up on Western countries in the happiness
department :)

[0]: [http://thejapanfaq.com/FAQ-Prices.html](http://thejapanfaq.com/FAQ-
Prices.html)

------
wufufufu
Quote from Dave Chappelle: "I say this with no disrespect. We’re all
Americans, and we can all agree that America has a huge body count all over
the world, but nowhere more than Asia. Literally, if you look at history
recently, we have bombed the masculinity out of an entire continent. We have
dropped two atomic bombs on fuckin’ Japan and they’ve been drawing Hello Kitty
and shit ever since."

~~~
Pamar
Maybe Chappelle could google for “Kyokushin” one of these days...

~~~
viridian
It's better than most karate, but Japan's martial culture has actually been
fairly average since the fall of imperial Japan. Granted, they aren't china,
but he's right in that the culture softened an incredible amount following a
total defeat in WW2.

