
Ruby on Rails: the Duplo generation - iamelgringo
http://railsontherun.com/2008/3/17/rails-the-duplo-generation
======
davidw
Uh... if we're going to argue that way, we could say that Matz and Guido did
the same thing by creating those easy to use languages that don't make real
men out of their users like C did. Or that the C language took all the pain
out of assembly that made users tough...

~~~
Kaizyn
It's kind of silly to try and lump Python in with Ruby. Ruby's sold itself on
how easy it makes web development and how you don't have to learn very much to
be productive with the language. To use Python you need to know a fair bit
about what's going on with the language. I'm not sure the same thing could be
said for Ruby on Rails.

~~~
ibsulon
The other piece is that it takes a bit less time to learn a fair bit about
Python.

Regardless of the merits of each language, Python has a lower barrier to
entry. With Python, it only takes a half day to get used to the language.
While I picked up enough to be comfortable in a subset of Ruby in a day,
reading code isn't always as obvious to a newbie because of the numerous
rubyisms that one encounters, especially with metaprogramming.

As such, it is going to take Rails developers longer to be able to
meaningfully code plugins. The impedance mismatch leads to the Duplo syndrome
here.

------
fiaz
I like Rails a lot because it allows me to focus on concept and less on the
actual code. If anything does pan out (which might happend 5% of the time if I
go through enough concepts), then it's time to revisit whether or not Rails is
the appropriate framework -- IF there are issues with it.

I get tons of ideas; Rails _and_ Ruby together (I cannot begin to tell you how
valuable Watir is) afford me enough speed so that I can prove if the concept
is worthwhile while at the same time have something to build upon towards a
production application. I could easily do the same in Java (what I use 40
hours/week), but I'd spend an equal amount of time on coding as I do on
concept/design.

The fact that I don't have to worry much about coding components from scratch
is useful specifically because I have a day job! Even if I didn't have a day
job, I'd be cranking out more concepts using Rails than I would with Java.

So what if Rails lowers the barriers to entry for writing a web application?

~~~
Kaizyn
Lowering barriers is good. However, if you didn't actually understand how
Rails was making life easier for you, wouldn't that be a problem?

~~~
batasrki
Completely agree. I've been saying to anyone who will listen that Rails is not
for people who are new to web development, nor for people who were never
willing to learn how certain things in web development work.

However, marketing of Rails was such as to invite the newbies in. These
newbies will also complain the loudest when a certain plugin doesn't play well
with their code or with other plugins. However, we cannot expect them to
contribute, since they are not fully aware how Rails works anyway.

~~~
fiaz
perhaps DHH is justified in saying "fuck you" to all those people who don't
know better...

But I do agree with you - to a point. There are all sorts who liken Rails to
the pixie dust of the year ("BUT IT'S BUILT IN RAILS SO IT MUST BE COOL!!"),
but I just ignore them and go back to what I was working on.

------
systems
All developers should start from scratch, create their own languages,
compilers, operating systems and framework.

If they don't they don't deserve to get their right of passage and will never
be mensa, spartan or ninjas

I havent used RoR, but what I always thought, was that even RoR is too hard,
you still code from scratch, a better approach for RAD should make you start
from a GUI/IDE and let you add code when needed something like VB6 only
better!

~~~
cellis
Your first sentence was gold.

------
jamesbritt
"The problem is that a generation of Rubyists has grown up being used to
getting everything pre written for them. "

A _generation_?

Hyperbole much?

------
ericb
A plugin by the newbies this author is so down on would probably not be a
plugin you'd want to use. It's cool that they're learning rails, why begrudge
them the chance to learn on the framework or harangue them for not writing
plugins? The natural learning curve of ruby/rails is nice in that mostly
people can create plugins when they've climbed mount ruby on rails, but not
sooner.

Everyone was a beginner once.

------
m0nty
I think the ability to put things together from someone else's code is a good
thing. Of course, I'm just getting old, lazy and cynical. But there's limited
virtue, IMO, in creating something from scratch if Duplo-style development
achieves results which are just as good.

Thoroughly take his point about whiny users though. Unfortunately, if you
commit to an open source project that's just part of the scenery and you have
to live with it.

------
sanj
"Regular" size Lego fits onto Duplo -- including Technics.

