
Microsoft's dystopian pitch for remote work - ph0rque
http://37signals.com/svn/posts/3683-microsofts-dystopian-pitch-for-remote-work
======
jmduke
Hypothetical: I get a call from my boss's boss at 7pm asking if I can create a
weekly metrics spreadsheet for him for the meeting tomorrow. Because I'm a go-
getter and want to help him out, I have three options:

1\. Wake up crazy early the next morning and head into the office early.

2\. Cancel my evening plans and drive back to the office tonight.

3\. Pop open my laptop while waiting for the next round of beers at Von
Trapp's and get it done.

David's arguing that the third option is the least conducive to work-life
balance. That's cool, but I'd rather have the ability to _edit that Excel
spreadsheet during happy hour_ than have to shift my plans around to do it
some other time.

(And it sits uneasy with me that 37signals has a book about remote work out
and also makes linkbaity, low-content posts like these which blur the line
between "signal" and marketing fluff.)

~~~
MBlume
You _missed an option_. Maintain your work-life boundaries, tell your boss's
boss you're sorry, but you have plans, and that he'll have a better chance of
getting things like that from you with more lead time. I'm pretty sure David's
arguing we should do that.

ETA: Actually I really think the idea of "work-life boundaries" is a useful
framing to have alongside "work-life balance"

~~~
JumpCrisscross
Given that the task is creating a "weekly metrics spreadsheet," something the
boss had the time to plan for, I agree with you. But I remember my younger
years very clearly, when something that sat on your director's desk for a week
would plop down on yours at 6PM with a next-day deadline. Balking is a less
attractive long-term proposition than grinding for a while. At that point,
having the mobility options presented in the advert could be attractive.

At more senior levels, shit happens - servers blow up, deals come out of
nowhere, and your top client with millions of dollars in arrears declares
bankruptcy. It's generally unreasonable to declare all those situations
unworthy of your consideration, let alone time, _ex ante_.

~~~
malyk
"At more senior levels, shit happens - servers blow up, deals come out of
nowhere, and your top client with millions of dollars in arrears declares
bankruptcy. It's generally unreasonable to declare all those situations
unworthy of your consideration, let alone time, ex ante."

You're just reinforcing the culture that it's ok for these things to steal you
life from you.

\- Outside of a young startup you should be paying someone to monitor/fix your
servers overnight as their job.

\- It's very very rare that a deal shows up that can't wait until morning and
by handling it right away you are telling the client that you'll drop
everything to deal with them...which isn't a good or sustainable practice.

\- What could you possibly do at 10pm one night when a client declares
bankruptcy? Deal with it in the morning.

By _not_ declaring all these situations unworthy of your consideration/time
ahead of time you are saying to everyone that it's okay to interrupt you at
any time for any reason...fuck whatever else you are doing at the time.

Such a shitty deal.

~~~
rayiner
If you're in a product-driven business, then the idea of working during
appetizers is pretty horrific. If you're in a client driven business, it's
just what clients demand, and if you don't give it to them they'll find
someone else who will.

That said, there is a flip side to the coin. In a client-driven business, you
tend to have more flexibility when something isn't on fire. I used to work at
a law firm and now I work for a judge. I liked my work-life balance
substantially more at the firm. Before, if the baby had a rough night, I'd
just sleep late and roll in at 10. Not so now. Uncle Sam expects me to be at
my desk by 8:30 sharp. Before, if I wasn't busy I'd take a long lunch with my
wife. Now, I've got 1 hour for lunch, minus 10 minutes to get through
security. I don't take work home anymore, but I also don't get to go home when
I don't have work.

So I guess I don't find that Microsoft ad as troubling as David does. To me it
doesn't signify filling all the crevices of my life with work, but rather
having the flexibility to do my work when I want to and need to.

~~~
gress
A client driven business doesn't have to give in to every demand any more than
a product driven one does.

David's contention is ultimately that work-life boundaries can result in
better work than simply being on call at all times, because people are more
productive when work is not in conflict with their significant personal
relationships.

If David is right, then client driven businesses that maintain robust
boundaries will perform better than those that do not.

If 24/7 responsiveness is the highest priority for your clients, the
implication is that they themselves do not understand the value of work-life
balance and that by going along with their demands, you are acting as a
facilitator of a dysfunctional behavior that is also bad for you and your
business.

~~~
gamblor956
It depends on the firm. Some legal and accounting firms offer 24/7
responsiveness to clients, and charge accordingly. Other firms provide work-
life balance to their employees and make it clear to their customers that they
won't be available after Xpm, or before Yam, and correspondingly charge
significantly less for their services.

Moreover, the more-responsive firms compensate for the worsened work-life
balance by paying their employees more. If employees would rather have work-
life balance, they can always jump to a more balanced firm for a smaller
salary.

~~~
rhizome
You don't actually know any of this as fact, do you?

------
philwelch
Microsoft is an enterprise software company and these advertisements are
targeted to the bosses who bully people into working nights and weekends from
home/bed/the bar/ their kid's soccer game, not to the people who are actually
working nights and weekends. The fact that they've gone for brutal realism, if
anything, just goes to show they're accepting this fact rather than pretending
they are in the business of bringing joy to people's lives.

------
csmuk
As someone who just threw his smartphone out of a car this morning due to the
stresses of having to work before my contracted hours, they can fuck off.

Waking up to work and going to sleep with work - not for me.

Apologies for the language.

~~~
grecy
> Apologies for the language.

None needed. Certain words exist to convey a very strong sense of emotion. The
topic you're talking about is obviously one of those.

IMO, you used the word perfectly, and I hope you did it to their faces too :)

(They've been doing the same to me this week)

~~~
csmuk
They did indeed get it to the face (well by email).

Thou who hire third parties to validate our dev process (which is a fucking
shambles) and take advice from said third party, despite us crowing the same
message for 6 fucking years, will recieveth face full of nasty language.

------
columbo
I struggle with calling this dystopian, even though I partially agree. I think
it's great that we push work-life balance, and I believe we should disconnect
but I can see where these advertisements might be comforting to some.

Back in the 70's my dad worked in an office and wasn't home until 7:30. He
only made it to a handful of sporting events and school events. If you asked
him, in the 70's, would he prefer to be in the office making that phone call
or be sitting at <insert kid's> <insert event> he would choose the latter
without hesitation.

For a more recent example, my sister is in sales and will get phone calls any
hour of the day. For her, being able to go out and do things with the
occasional 5 minute interruption is an absolute game-changer. Not just answer
phone calls, but to bring up the customer information and maybe write a quick
email.

~~~
beachstartup
i agree, and i'm not sure this "pitch" can be really pinned on microsoft
(alone), the entire tech ecosystem of the 00's made it happen, starting with
blackberry, then apple, the wireless carriers, etc. it's a larger
cultural/technology shift.

~~~
pyrocat
Why are you trying so hard to be an apologist for a shitty advertising
campaign?

------
pionar
It's interesting, DHH has a book to pitch, and he has all these link-baiting,
low quality posts that automatically get upvoted because it's DHH. And
surprise, they're all about how working remotely is the best situation for
everyone. It's not. Just like every other working style/paradigm, it works for
some, not for others.

~~~
gress
How is this post about working remotely being the best situation for everyone?

How is it linkbait?

~~~
curiousDog
It is. Because he's just over analyzing a bunch of ads. And picking on
Microsoft is bound to draw the usual startup hate crowd. The ads just showcase
the fact that you can access your work files online anywhere, which was
previously unheard of anywhere. Twisting that and putting on dystopian airs is
just link baiting

~~~
gress
Firstly, accessing your work files anywhere has long been enabled by Dropbox,
Google Docs, and iCloud, so there's nothing that was previously unheard of.

Secondly, the complaint is that Microsoft is celebrating people being
distracted from family events by the demands of work. I think that's a valid
complaint and not something to be encouraged.

~~~
curiousDog
I'm talking about Enterprises (fortune companies), that've been tied to IBM or
Microsoft, access to files everywhere is new. And google apps for enterprises
doesn't preceed o365 by that much

~~~
gress
Fair enough. I guess you agree with the other point then.

------
ChuckMcM
So it is, as with most things, complicated. Yes, having to work during your
kid's soccer game is not great, but having the option makes some things
possible.

Clearly there are toxic work situations where "the boss" is always demanding
more than is possible and requiring a lot of free "overtime" to get it done.
And this technology is an enabler for that type of supervisor, but it isn't
the _cause_ of their mismanagement. Bad bosses are bad, they ask you stay late
all the time, they ask you to come in and work weekends for this "sprint" they
put a spin on it that it is good for the company but at the end of the day
they are just trying to maximize productivity at the expense of their
employee's work/life balance.

But there are also things that come up, they come up in random time zones far
away and sometimes they need you to work at odd hours. At those times, when it
is an exception that you're going to be working at an odd time and
unexpectedly, it can be convenient that you can do that work on what you have
with you (your phone or tablet) than feeling the need to carry around a larger
amount of stuff 'just in case.'

That said, I don't know here Microsoft gets their ad agencies but this one and
some of the ones poking at Apple are probably not the best way to express
their intent. And sometimes a bad advertising pitch is identified by how
easily it can be used against the company that funded it.

The rest seems to be 37signals taking advantage of a wonderful "straight line"
as comedians would say, and spinning it to their advantage.

------
consultant23522
For the millionth time. If you're going to tell me you don't trust me to work
from home you'd better not be pushing to outsource to India. I mean how can
you trust someone on the other side of the planet but you can't trust me 10
miles away?

~~~
dariot
I think it's because programmers in India cost less than you. It's easier to
trust someone that cost less - if they screw up you've lost considerably less
money.

------
LVB
I was ready to post some counterpoints, but that was before I clicked on the
link to the full Microsoft ad. The images are truly awful. An example
promoting that during my lunch, while walking in a national park, I should
participate in meetings is ridiculous. A guy collapsed in bed clinging to his
tablet that's pulsing with new work? Right.

~~~
HillRat
Also, just try getting a decent cell signal on the rim of the Grand Canyon.
And the wi-fi options in national parks are decidedly subpar.

The fact that I _know_ this saddens me greatly.

~~~
bcbrown
The wi-fi options in national parks is fantastic.

There isn't any. That's the way it should be.

------
wmeredith
Microsoft has this weird knack for anti-marketing. They did this shit, too,
with Windows phone. The launch campaign was basically a bunch of ads saying
that using your phone was bad.

~~~
res0nat0r
These ads are just fine for the product, which allows you to work anywhere,
and is what they are touting. The only reason they are being hated on right
now is because it is Microsoft, and around here Microsoft Is Evil.

~~~
gress
No. They are being criticized because they are trying to persuade that it's
good for bosses to demand that people work instead of paying attention to
their families in order to sell tools that allow people to work anywhere to
corporations.

~~~
res0nat0r
Why aren't we outraged at Dropbox for letting you have access to your work
documents at home so that you can work late into the night? Or Google so I can
work on that spreadsheet during dinner and until late in the morning?

All companies that push cloud based easily accessible products will tout how
you can work / play whenever / however you want thanks to their new tech.

This is just faux outrage because it is Microsoft.

~~~
gress
There is no outrage at the technology or the idea of being able to work when
you want.

There is outrage at an advertising campaign that celebrates being distracted
by work from important family events.

~~~
res0nat0r
Yet the ads are saying exactly the opposite. You don't have to be totally
absent using 365 like you could before the product was available to you (which
is a good thing when you are forced to work, vs not being there at all).
People are just trying to find reasons to not like the product to fuel the MS
hate in my opinion.

~~~
gress
I think underlying the dislike of the ad is that it glorifies a situation
where people as you say are _forced_ to work.

Certainly if you are forced to work at the whim of your boss, being able to do
so while being able to attend a family event is better than simply not being
allowed to attend family events.

Being waterboarded is better than the thumbscrews, but most of us would prefer
not to have to choose one of them.

~~~
res0nat0r
This comes back to my other comment in another thread, that everyone should be
outraged at the companies enforcing this type of work/life balance, not
Microsoft.

~~~
gress
Microsoft is putting large amounts of money into celebrating this kind of
behavior. Why on earth should that be ignored?

------
pfraze
Those images are comically off-putting. The father looks like he's missing his
son score a goal because he's on his cell. The guy in happy hour looks like
he's awkwardly suffering boredom.

------
bagosm
First of all remote work is not only for the employee. The startup community
should know better that working can also include monitoring, getting up to
date on things, and even meetings.

Having a coworker that lives across the globe and needs a quick line edit help
shouldn't punish you by means of staying at home OR him to a strict off-hours
schedule.

That's all part of the work from home culture and tools.

------
russell
I find the image of the woman typing away at her computer while her date,
boyfriend, husband, coworker even sits attentive to her, to be appallingly
rude. Now I am much older than nearly all of you and I grew up when the only
electronic distraction was a portable radio. I remember being at a restaurant
with a date. She told me that she liked being with me because I paid attention
to her and ignored all the people around us. My partner and I have been
together for 12 years, but I still pay attention to her like it was out first
date.

------
grandalf
Of all the things in the world to get indignant about this poster ranks pretty
low in my opinion.

------
bjourne
Obviously it is some kind of ironic marketing campaign. The full pr is here:
[http://www.microsoft.com/en-
us/news/press/2013/nov13/11-06ge...](http://www.microsoft.com/en-
us/news/press/2013/nov13/11-06getitdone.aspx) I don't get it because I'm
picturing people that are working 8h in the office and _then_ working during
the night thanks to Office 365.

~~~
sp332
I thought the posters were a joke at first, but I think the point is that
people _already do this_. The posters aren't saying "now you can work from
bed!" It's saying: you already work from bed, let me help you with that.

------
wil421
I get work done during work hours.

#GetItDoneAtWork

------
jezebel6
microsoft's 'get it done' ad campaign reads more like a parody of bad
marketing than anything else. The SNL skit almost writes itself.

------
lotso
Incredible low-content article for how many points it has. Terrible linkbait.
It seems more like HN likes to upvote anything anti-Microsoft. If you actually
look at Microsoft's ads, they are definitely poking fun at these use-cases,
while highlighting that these are actual REAL-WORLD use-cases, that people
already actually do.

------
martin1b
For a second there, I thought DHH turned over a new leaf and wasn't going to
drop the f-bomb in a post... wrongo...

That said, I agree fully with his thoughts from an employee perspective.
However, MSFT is trying to appeal decision makers who write the check for
their software, not the employees.

------
veritas20
I think some are missing the major point. If you are working from every where
there is no "life" in the "work-life" balance message that they are trying to
convey. "Work anywhere", yes. "Work-life balance", no.

------
SubuSS
So everyone supporting this, don't you have on calls in your team? (assuming
you work on a live product). Don't you have subject matter expertise split
enough that you might be needed when your component conks? Don't you have
aggressive targets that your whole team is rushing towards once in a while?

It might be a systemic issue. It might also just be an one off situation. You
should fight back if the boss is just being lazy / incompetent, but most of
the situations I have seen have been way too deep for the boss / current
oncall to handle. You just suck it up and get to work - that's all. The onus
is on you to equip your boss to handle it himself.

As always different shades - there are many cases where a set timetable isn't
an option. In those cases, I welcome such tools that give me the option to
work from anywhere rather than forcing me to drive back to office.

------
gress
Perhaps they should rebrand it, "Office Eternity".

------
gordaco
So, the idea is making remote work so unappealing that employees reject it
actively?

------
azernik
Eh, there are also less dystopian versions of this ad. Like the one where
someone works on a presentation on the train while going to a customer meeting
- more about squeezing out the completely wasted hours than about working
during the really rewarding parts of your life.

------
ffrryuu
Microsoft is a toxic workplace.

------
eholder
Isn't that the pitch of everything from Remote desktop to VPN?

From
[http://www.google.com/enterprise/apps/business/benefits.html](http://www.google.com/enterprise/apps/business/benefits.html)

>For your business, this means every employee and everyone you work with can
be productive from anywhere, using any device with an Internet connection.

>Free your team from cubicles

>Access your work from any device with a web browser – your computer, phone or
tablet – and stay productive even when you’re away from the office.

> _Need to attend a meeting from your kid’s soccer game?_ Edit a spreadsheet
> while at the airport waiting for a flight? Respond to an email from a hotel
> business center computer? Google Apps makes it easy to stay connected to
> projects you’re working on and the people you work with, no matter where you
> are or what device you’re using.

Putting Microsoft and dystopian into the headline does get a lot more clicks,
upvotes and outrage though.

~~~
ry0ohki
Or really even what 37signals own features are implying:

"It’s just the right amount of Basecamp when you’re on-the-go."

[https://basecamp.com/mobile](https://basecamp.com/mobile)

------
andyl
Create an enemy. Great marketing DHH.

