
FIrefox USIng ONions - ColanR
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Fusion
======
forapurpose
What will Mozilla do about the Tor network's usability problems? Advanced
users can workaround them and because they understand the benefits and
engineering, accept the frustrations as a cost for a worthwhile (and free)
technology. But what will non-technical users do?

Many public Internet websites filter connections from the Tor network, many
other websites are very slow, yet others impose extra obstacles such as
multiple rounds of captchas (even 5 or more) or degraded service (including
high suspicion of payments), and of course you often will receive webpages in
the wrong locale or language - which can trigger regional filters. Currently,
workarounds requires resetting the circuit (few non-technical users will even
understand what the circuit is), lots of patience and reloads, and often just
giving up.

If that's the experience of typical Firefox users, they won't use it and they
will have bad associations with Tor and Firefox.

~~~
jerheinze
Wouldn't more Tor 3rd party integration (soon Brave, Mozilla in the future,
...) lead to greater incentive for website operators to allow Tor? (FWIW
Cloudflare captchas are mostly a thing of the past now as they've been
allowing Tor users as long as they come from the Tor Browser)

~~~
forapurpose
> Wouldn't more Tor 3rd party integration (soon Brave, Mozilla in the future,
> ...) lead to greater incentive for website operators to allow Tor?

That seems like a long game. Tor is starting with a minuscule marketshare;
Fusion will only be used by users in a special mode, afaict - again, probably
very few; and if Brave's marketshare is higher or lower, the difference is
immaterial. There are even websites that aren't compatible with Firefox
itself, or so I'm told; it will be a long time before anyone cares about Tor
users.

Also, users whose personal data is harder to access are less valuable to the
website; websites have an incentive to make it harder to use Tor. Finally,
many associate Tor with criminality; that's not an attractive market and it's
very easy for the CSO to say, 'just block it; it's not worth the time or
cost'.

------
jerheinze
For some more details:
[https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/meetings/2...](https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/meetings/2018Rome/Notes/FusionProject)

