
Ask HN: What is the perception of an ex-Amazon engineer today? - sadamznintern
I&#x27;m joining Amazon in a few weeks in Seattle. Since I first accepted my intern offer, I&#x27;ve come to see the perception that Amazon engineers are less sought-after and seen to be worse than engineers at Facebook or Google - is this perception accurate? What is the hierarchy?<p>I know for a fact that Amazon engineers are compensated less well compared to Facebook and Google - does having Amazon as an SDE1 on my resume imply I didn&#x27;t have any better options? I turned down two startups and a bulge-bracket bank (Goldman | JP Morgan | Morgan Stanley) to accept Amazon.<p>I want to go to Google or Facebook someday, but I&#x27;m afraid I don&#x27;t have the mental acuity to pass an interview loop.
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mindcrime
_I want to go to Google or Facebook_

Please, please, PLEASE stop thinking that way. It's absurd. I mean, I'm not
saying don't go to Google or Facebook one day... but please quit thinking that
working for one of those TWO companies is somehow the be-all, end-all. They're
just companies. And frankly, they both suck. And I can say that having worked
for neither of them. Why? Because _all_ companies suck, in their own ways.
Thinking that there's this one place that's just somehow so special and that's
going to make you happy, especially when you've already narrowed the pool down
to two is almost guaranteed to be a mistake.

The world is a LOT bigger than AmaGoodBookSoftHooGram. I mean, really, really,
really, really MUCH bigger. Almost unimaginably so. Please don't constrain
yourself in such an artificial way. Just focus on developing your skills,
learning as much as you can, and figuring out what you want to focus on. If
you can nail that part, the name of the company you work for is almost
completely incidental.

~~~
s2g
Okay, who pays as well?

~~~
sadamznintern
Only the hedge funds/propshops/hft companies and some of the startups that
have already exited like Cruise.

Nobody else does, that guy just has low standards and has been brainwashed
into thinking the elites don't live significantly more fulfilling and secure
lives than he does.

~~~
tripletao
Most people reporting to me make >$200k total comp, some by quite a lot. I see
no evidence that they're happier than my high school classmates. The highest
earner quite certainly wasn't the happiest. Somewhere, there's an eighteen-
year-old doing affiliate marketing (maybe ICOs now?) who outearns all of us,
with less than zero institutional prestige.

It's a big world. Money is excellent, but it's (a) less effective in buying
happiness than you think, and (b) found in more places than you think.
Seriously, talk to a therapist--these thoughts are hurting both your mental
health and your earning potential.

~~~
sadamznintern
>Money is excellent, but it's (a) less effective in buying happiness than you
think

To me, money is how I want to live without fear. I grew up pretty upper middle
class but my parents were petrified of the littlest things (putting up the
thermostat at 80 instead of 85, staying at a non-terrifying $80 a night motel
instead of a terrifying $65 a night one).

We're pretty secure but everyone I knew grew up more "confidently" and now
makes more than me.

------
tripletao
If the greatest accomplishment on your resume is that Amazon once hired you,
then you have a problem that changing "Amazon" to "Facebook" won't fix. What
you accomplish and learn is more important than where.

In any case, the variation between groups in large companies is bigger than
the variation between companies. Choose based on the interview experience,
publications from the group (if any), feedback from friends working directly
for/with the hiring manger (if at all possible), etc.

~~~
sadamznintern
It sadly absolutely is. I didn't really do much as an intern. My research
contributions are pretty low impact too, I got only 1 2nd author paper in
undergrad to a mid tier conference.

Nothing I've made has gotten more than 30k downloads/installs, nothing has
made it to the top of HN, I haven't been a rockstar at any of the companies
I've worked for...

~~~
tripletao
Even if what you're saying is true--which I doubt, if only because "got hired
by Amazon/Facebook/anywhere once" is an incredibly weak greatest achievement--
it's not normal to think about yourself in such negative light. Seriously,
talk to a therapist.

You need to (a) make sure you're not feeling so depressed/inferior that your
judgment is impaired, and (b) find the work that you're personally capable of
that you personally find most impressive, and go somewhere that you can do it.
To chase external affirmation that you don't think you deserve is a terrible
strategy for your mental health, and probably not a great financial strategy
either.

------
bsvalley
Any developer can get an interview at google or FB as long as you have a CS
degree. It’s 2018 and their goal is to interview EVERYONE. No more pick and
chose. Who ever cracks their stupid and useless “technical” interviews has the
“ability” to work for them. Your past experiences or real skills don’t matter
at all. Or I shoud say - won’t help you during the interview process because
it’s a tough exam. Bill Gates could fail, zuckerberg could fail as well as
Sergey or Larry. Which also means, anyone can succeed the interview process.

If that’s what you want, my suggestion would be to memorize as many
algo/solutions as possible and to spend 3 months writting complex functions on
a whiteboard. Be prepared to fail the interview process at least once. Many
FB/Google employees failed at least once before getting a job their.

Amazon? That’s good for you.. go for it and learn as much as you can for your
next gig. Don’t forget to separate the interview process from the real work
experience. These are 2 different things and in 2018 you better master both.
One will get you a job and the other one will help you keep that job.

~~~
sadamznintern
I've studied for 4 years. I've only become marginally better. I still can't
understand a lot of the hards and mediums.

~~~
tudelo
Qualify what "studied for 4 years" means. No one can really study for 4 years,
just like no one can really study for 8 hours :). For what it's worth, I have
found good success by picking a topic on leetcode and then solving some
easies, then going to a medium.

~~~
sadamznintern
About 210 questions on leetcode, 45% med, 45% easy, 10% hard.

I repeated doing a bunch of them because I'd forget tricks and the like. I
think I just don't have the IQ for it.

To compare, most of the people that I know who cracked FB, Google, trading
companies etc did less than 80 or just read CTCI. I read CTCI and didn't find
it helpful at all.

------
chrisbennet
Take your experience and look for jobs doing what makes _you_ happy. School is
over, you don’t have to do stuff to please other people anymore. Don’t take a
job to impress your friends, belong to a “club” or make your parents happy.

Want to work on technology X? Look for jobs doing that. If you get a job at
Google, do you know what you’ll be working on? I’ve heard they assign you to
whatever _google_ wants you to work on. Sure, you can move to another group
someday but as I once told an interviewer: “Why should I pay my dues working
on something uninteresting in hopes that I can someday move to another dept
doing what I want to do, when I can just work for someplace else, working on
something I want to do _right now_?

------
ggm
Do not live a life of regret. Have experiences. Maybe, having an Amazon
experience is a good thing? How about (for instance) if it turned out the big
data science being done inside Amazon took you to JPL or Antarctica or into
your own startup?

I tell a joke about failing to get hired by Microsoft in the 1980s. Sure, I'd
be fully vested, but I've worked continuously since graduating.

In a million years we're all fossils. Life is too short to waste in coulda-
shoulda-woulda

------
itronitron
I know two people that worked at Amazon as software engineers. They worked in
very different groups, one very business integration focused, the other one
worked in the core Amazon site. Both are extremely professional, intelligent,
and capable and I would be happy to work with either again. I think you have a
better chance at Amazon of developing strong professional skills that are
better suited to a larger number of employers, than you would at Google or FB
(but I could be wrong.) Keep in mind technical groups within a large
organization can be very different from each other so you should use every
opportunity to meet/network across groups.

~~~
sadamznintern
Thank you for an actual response. That's heartening, but I'm still not sure if
Amazon and Google are held in equal footing :(

------
togusa2017
I would also agree with the tone of the rest of the comments. You could work
in the best company doing the shittiest work and working in the shittiest
company doing the best work. At the end of the day - Take a chance. Make
mistake. Learn. Keep repeating.

------
akulbe
Comparing yourself to others is going to make you nuts. Stop it. Seriously.

Why not be _THANKFUL_ you've got a job?

If you start with what you've got now, work to learn as much as you can while
you're there, it will go a long way for you going forward.

~~~
sadamznintern
I am thankful. But everyone gets a job out of undergrad with a CS degree. I
think I'm one of the ~10 people in my 300 person CS program that got a job at
a big tech company making more than $100k a year. That's not good enough. I'm
not competing with them, I'm competing with people that went to HYPSM.

~~~
akulbe
You don't sound thankful. You sound entitled.

Have you considered that even though you may consider FB or Google a better
place to work, for status/pay... that you're already starting out INSANELY
better with even Amazon, than the rest of the world gets?

You can make this experience as good or as poor as you like. It's completely
up to you. I say to make the best of it.

------
tntn
Are you from (i.e. born/raised) the Bay Area by chance?

~~~
sadamznintern
Nope. Born in the South.

------
happyamznfte
Whatever you believe is right. Amazon is what you make of it just like
everything else. With such low spirits ahead of your start date I suggest you
defer it further, we expect enthusiasm at Amazon,you will be rewarded
handsomely in a couple years. But that first impression has got to be one of a
winner , a go getter. YOU cleared the hiring bar , why do you look back? Who
cares if it is lower than Facebook or Google , are you trying to tell me that
is the ceiling of an Amazonians potential. We want everyone to feel great
working at Amazon , and you are no exception . Nobody will tell you to buck up
at Amazon , you will just stop being relevant and quit one day if you don't
have the fire in you from day one.

~~~
sadamznintern
It absolutely is what I make of it. I got the team that I wanted in the city
I've wanted to live in since I was a kid. I want to make the most of it
personally but I have doubts I'll get much out of it even with that. I'm
really afraid of getting PIPed within the first review cycle. My stock isn't
going to appreciate much either and my TC is very low compared to my peers.

~~~
akulbe
Why, oh why, are you starting out so defeated?!

I'm not sure the origin of the quote... "If you think you can, or you think
you can't, you're right."

You're shooting yourself in the foot before you even start!!! STOP it!

Just go in and apply what you know, learn where you don't, and work hard. It's
going to be hard, but it'll be worth it.

