

Ask YC: Recurring billing: 1. Paying resellers, 2. Switching gateway vendors - cattledogit

SaaS Rails Kit (http://railskits.com/saas/) with Active Merchant used with gateways such as Braintree or Authorize.net seems like a flexible and cost-effective option for recurring billing. PayPal looks like a fast way to get started, bearing in mind the horror stories (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=198516 ).&#60;p&#62;Two questions:&#60;p&#62;1.	What solutions are available to automate tracking, reporting and payments to channel partners (resellers, distributors, affiliates) using the gateways or PayPal? I’ve heard that Avantgate (http://www.avangate.com) supports multiple tiers of distribution, but their fees (http://www.avangate.com/help/vendor-faq.php#bottom10) are higher than the gateways, and only the name "Avangate" appears on the buyer’s CC statement. PayPal enables payments to affiliates using simple scripts with PayPal’s Mass Pay, but you have to create your own reporting. Amazon FPS appears to only support per-transaction payments, not aggregation of payments (http://tinyurl.com/l6zvkd).&#60;p&#62;2.	How easy is it to switch gateway or platform vendors if they’re storing the credit card info? If you’re using Auth.net but want to switch to Braintree, how is the credit card info transferred so that you can continue billing monthly without interruption? This question has been asked before (http://tinyurl.com/mj9zgp) but not answered that I’ve seen, except that CC info can’t be transferred from PayPal (http://tinyurl.com/lyupgg).&#60;p&#62;Thanks!
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cattledogit
Resubmitting, hopefully replacing the <p>'s:

SaaS Rails Kit (<http://railskits.com/saas/>) with Active Merchant used with
gateways such as Braintree or Authorize.net seems like a flexible and cost-
effective option for recurring billing. PayPal looks like a fast way to get
started, bearing in mind the horror stories
(<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=198516> ).

Two questions:

1\. What solutions are available to automate tracking, reporting and payments
to channel partners (resellers, distributors, affiliates) using the gateways
or PayPal? I’ve heard that Avantgate (<http://www.avangate.com>) supports
multiple tiers of distribution, but their fees
(<http://www.avangate.com/help/vendor-faq.php#bottom10>) are higher than the
gateways, and only the name "Avangate" appears on the buyer’s CC statement.
PayPal enables payments to affiliates using simple scripts with PayPal’s Mass
Pay, but you have to create your own reporting. Amazon FPS appears to only
support per-transaction payments, not aggregation of payments
(<http://tinyurl.com/l6zvkd>).

2\. How easy is it to switch gateway or platform vendors if they’re storing
the credit card info? If you’re using Auth.net but want to switch to
Braintree, how is the credit card info transferred so that you can continue
billing monthly without interruption? This question has been asked before
(<http://tinyurl.com/mj9zgp>) but not answered that I’ve seen, except that CC
info can’t be transferred from PayPal (<http://tinyurl.com/lyupgg>).

Thanks!

~~~
stympy
I recently added affiliate tracking to the SaaS Rails Kit as a starting point
for tracking payments to affiliates, etc. It's not a full, automated solution
of course, but at least you can track it.

Generally you can't get that stored card data back out of the gateway. You
basically have three options for this: 1\. Just stick with the one you pick
for the life of the app. This is the easiest. :) 2\. When you switch keep
track of which gateway has the info, maintaining two gateway accounts. 3\. Ask
users to re-enter their billing info when you switch.

~~~
cattledogit
Following up on question 2 re switching gateways, I've been told by Braintree,
TrustCommerce, and Plimus that they will export credit card data to another
vendor for a fee. Of course you should confirm this with them yourself before
relying on the info. Some others I contacted won't export, or can't because
they don't retain the card data.

------
cristianbadea
Hi,

Avangate has two main platforms: Avangate eCommerce and ARMS. If you are
looking for a system to manage channel partners, invoicing, payments and
reports you might find a solution in ARMS (Avangate Reseller Management System
- <http://www.avangate.com/reseller-management-software/>). The pricing is
different than the eCommerce platform (the link you've sent) and can be either
a license cost if the payments are processed by your own payment system or a
variable pricing scheme if the Avangate payment system is used.

In terms of what appears on the customer credit card, it's not just the string
"Avangate" that will show on the statement, but also your website. Something
like "avangate.com/ycombinator.com".

Hope my info helps.

\-- Cristian BADEA | Avangate CIO cristian.badea at avangate.com Tel: +31 20
890 8080 | Fax: +31 20 203 1309 <http://www.avangate.com>

------
jacquesm
The best way to do this is to get a merchant account of your own and plug in
with any one of the big IPSPs. Integration is typically less than half a days
work.

PayPal is notoriously bad about charging recurring for services, I would never
use them again for something like that (they once held a substantial amount of
money for 6 months without any qualifications, just 'account closed' and
'because we can').

------
spooneybarger
if someone is storing the data for you, you are pretty much locked in.
spending the extra time and managing the data yourself is probably a really
good idea.

~~~
aneesh
That's true for everything _except_ credit card data. If you have to ask,
storing users' credit card data is almost always a bad idea. The information
is very sensitive, and any compromise is very serious. That's why if you store
payment information, you generally have to implement a number of best
practices to achieve "PCI compliance". This costs you time & money, as well as
additional policies and regulations at your company. Unless your revenue is
reasonably significant (say, over a million per year), it's probably not worth
the hassle. Outsource your payment processing.

