

Tell HN: Some of you are straight up bullies - steventruong

I might get flagged or down-voted in this thread to kingdom come but I don't care. This needs to be said.<p>Like many here, I strongly oppose SOPA and believe in freedom of choice, or rather, a free Internet. And I understand that there are many reasons why people would want to move off a service like GoDaddy for their support of SOPA that has come out in recent days. Of course there are a lot of other reasons people have for not wanting to stay with GoDaddy such as poor service, the elephant killing, etc... and this simply became the last straw for a lot of people. Whatever the reason, I get it. You want to take a stance and not do business with them, partly due to a difference in beliefs, and that's okay. For what its worth, I'm moving my business off GoDaddy as well.<p>Having said that, what I am NOT okay with is how many people have become bullies as a result of this. You may not like the fact that they are supporting SOPA (or were) but that doesn't mean you have to be an ass about it. In my personal opinion, the real objective was always to help educate others on the potential harm SOPA represents, and help spread the word about it so that others can understand and make a choice, and hopefully do the right thing in opposing it. It was never about personal attacks against GoDaddy. Maybe I'm alone in this thinking but not doing business with them was more due to mal-alignment in personal beliefs than it was to screw them over.<p>However, that's exactly seems to be the case with some people here. I am reading about how people want to get other companies to drop GoDaddy to prove a point. And what point is that? That if other people/companies have a different opinion than yours, that they're automatically the bad guy and you need to do everything you can to beat them to a pulp? I may not like SOPA and I may disagree with GoDaddy, but I can at the very least respect other people's opinion (including companies). I'm glad that a lot of people are standing up for their beliefs and moving their business away from GoDaddy, which is a perfectly fine <i>personal</i> choice. But when it all of a sudden sounds like that became the objective, to simply pile on and get everyone to drop them, and then try to recruit other large companies to do the same or risk your wrath, you lose sight of the real goal. Now you're just attacking everyone who doesn't share your belief. I like to believe we're all adults here and we can act with class rather than like playground kids about it.<p>Maybe you don't like their service. Maybe you hate them for various reasons outside of just SOPA. Maybe there are a bunch of other reasons I can't think of. Regardless, GoDaddy is entitled to their opinions even if that opinion differs from your own and being a BULLY is never acceptable behavior in my opinion to get what you want no matter how strongly you feel.<p>For the record, I'm glad they reversed their opposition (and hopefully not doing some under handed stuff privately). I'm still going to move my business away simply because I don't believe its truly what they want and they're only doing it because its hitting their business. I'm glad that the word about SOPA is getting out. In no way am I defending GoDaddy in any way, shape, or form. All I'm trying to say is, remember what you're fighting for. Don't act out a mob mentality on the wrong things so much that you lose sight of what is important.
======
RobGR
I don't think you are using the word "bully" correctly.

GoDaddy is a powerful and monied entity that has been caught paying money to
convince the most powerful and monied entity in the world, the United States
Government, to implement a set of rules that would generally make it easier
for rich corporations to silence poor critics. The GoDaddy boycotters are not
bullying the SOPA supporters.

The GoDaddy boycott does have a certain amount of groupthink and mindless
sloganeering in it. Perhaps this is what you mean when you say "bullying".

GoDaddy tried to recruit the largest power in the world to help silence the
smallest, and you find lobbying others to boycott them "piling on" ?

You say "GoDaddy is entitled to their opinions" but remember, GoDaddy spent
money to make it easy for you to have your opinions removed from the internet.
They didn't just "express their opinion" that a corporation should be able to
shut down critical sites just for asking, they set about to make it happen.
They engaged in no dialog or conversation with you, they just tried to get it
done.

~~~
steventruong
I agree. The issue I had was many were beginning to take on a mob mentality
even after GoDaddy backed off. This isn't about GoDaddy either regardless btw.
It was about SOPA. GoDaddy was just an example to purely to point out that by
continuing to destroy them even after they've relented, does not help continue
making a case against stopping SOPA from being approved.

------
malandrew
GoDaddy suffered a market correction as a result of rational actors behaving
in their self interest. In this case the self interest was simply economic,
but also an issue of freedom.

GoDaddy didn't simply have an opinion, they were acting upon it. Their actions
support legislation that limits freedoms, especially free speech, and sets up
a dangerous precedent for further limiting freedoms. Any entity that threatens
freedoms of the people should expect to be bullied by the people.

Many people at some point in their lives determine that certain things are
valuable enough to fight for. For a lot of people, their values were under
siege by SOPA and PROTECT-IP.

Bullying is what happens to a kid on a schoolyard who has done absolutely
nothing to deserve the harm (usually physical) inflicted upon them. The
reaction of people against GoDaddy was self-defense in the interest of self
preservation.

------
ChrisNorstrom
You sound like a very good person who is completely oblivious to all the ways
lawmakers and companies fuck us all over. The problem with people like you is
that you let feelings and "goodness" get in the way of doing what needs to be
done.

We have to be bullies, we have to be aggressive, merciless, unforgiving. Have
you seen how companies like Monsanto have hijacked our congress? Make our
lawmakers their bitches? How businesses have, over the course of decades,
destroyed our towns, freedom, and privacy, in the name of profit.

The way Massey Coal caused deaths of children and contamination of hundreds of
streams because they use mountain top removal as a method to mine for coal.
They lobby lawmakers to prevent any type of law against it. George Bush signed
a law allowing them to actually. Google "mountain top removal" and look at the
giant holes they left in West Virginia, then look at the kids going through
chemo therapy to fight brain cancer caused by the chemicals in the explosives
used for mining.

The way American car companies lobbied congress to prevent higher mileage
standards so they profit more without having to innovate. (which ultimately
led to them needing a bailout because they couldn't compete with foreign car
makers)

The way Car companies bought up and ripped out streetcars and their tracks so
more people could buy cars. Now we tax payers are paying billions trying to
put them back in to unclog our cities.

The way banks got bailouts then went out, partied, and gave themselves raises
and bonuses. (self explanatory)

The way the United States poisoned 10,000 of its own citizens so it can more
easily sell prohibition to the public. Yeah, kill people to scare them away
from drinking alcohol.

The way oil companies are allowed to have as many oil spill accidents as they
want, as long as they pay their

There is NOTHING we will ever do that will ever equal to the bullying that
corporations inflict on us for the sake of profit and personal agendas.

These are the lunatics the American public are competing with, with all due
respect, grow a pair of fucking balls. Because balls are all we have left.

~~~
steventruong
Believe me, I fight for what I believe in. I wouldn't have the galls to post
this knowing there might be some backlash if I didn't have some balls. Note
I'm also doing so under my real name.

I don't disagree with the shadiness that various companies have chose to
carried themselves by. And there certainly a lot of reasons to be angry and
upset. I agree with you that there are a lot of fucked up shit going on out
there. But you're now mixing two totally separate arguments and taking
advantage of the situation to tear GoDaddy a new asshole in the process.

I am not defending them (this isn't about them specifically either) nor do I
honestly give a shit about their business. My original intent with this post
stands. The goal and sole focus was and still should be to educate others on
SOPA, get the word out, and oppose it from happening. Not take out
everyone/company along the way. That's unnecessary and irrelevant collateral
damage coupled with a lot of anger from a multitude of things combined.

~~~
ChrisNorstrom
I see. Sorry I got carried away then.

The problem with the public is that they don't want to be educated. Scientists
and logicians have tried for decades to educate the public and they still deny
evolution and global climate change. The public can only be scared shitless
into things or "infotained" by public displays of drama and shock. That's how
congress get us into wars and pointless "security theater" strip searches and
hand swabs at the airport.

Which do you think would catch the -> average <\- person's attention: (note:
the average YouTube kitten watching, tv couch potato, "who's Carl Segan?", "I
didn't come from no monkey", person)

1) Congress is voting on a law called SOPA which censors the US internet and
can completely destroy free speech, fair use content, youtube, and fair file
sharing.

2) Did you hear what happened to Godaddy? They supported some SOPA law on
censoring the internet and got their ass beat. Now they're on damage control,
etc....

~~~
steventruong
Agreed.

------
dextorious
"""However, that's exactly seems to be the case with some people here. I am
reading about how people want to get other companies to drop GoDaddy to prove
a point. And what point is that? That if other people/companies have a
different opinion than yours, that they're automatically the bad guy and you
need to do everything you can to beat them to a pulp?"""

Supporting SOPA is not "having an opinion" --in their own private home--, it's
actively supporting and helping a legislation pass. Those kinds of opinions
have consequences. GoDaddy's opinion (and lobbying) could have the consequence
of a law passed. Why shouldn't it also have the consequence of them losing
business?

So you are wrong here. This is not about "freedom of opinion", it's about
political action, and fighting against society being forced into laws one does
not approve. Not paying a company and suggesting others to not pay them
either, is not bullying. It's exactly like suggesting people don't vote for a
party you don't agree with.

~~~
steventruong
Then how do you explain the fact that after GoDaddy change their stance to
oppose SOPA, people were still going on with the "who cares, lets get others
to continue dropping them" (paraphrasing). Believe it or not, that attitude is
still going on.

I believe that the moment they admit and change their stance, continuing to do
so became a moot point. As I said, I'm still going to move my business off
GoDaddy, but that's a personal choice at this point. Now that they're not
opposing SOPA anymore (supposedly), why are people still trying to rally large
companies to quit using GoDaddy? Clearly there is a problem here in my
opinion.

EDIT: Clearly I'm not the only one who've observed this behavior, see:
[http://fredandrandall.com/blog/2011/12/23/why-im-sticking-
wi...](http://fredandrandall.com/blog/2011/12/23/why-im-sticking-with-godaddy-
for-now/) (from HN)

~~~
dextorious
"""Then how do you explain the fact that after GoDaddy change their stance to
oppose SOPA, people were still going on with the "who cares, lets get others
to continue dropping them" (paraphrasing). Believe it or not, that attitude is
still going on."""

Not only I believe, I also approve it.

GoDaddy's hypocritical turn-around means nothing, it's just damage control.
The idea is not to "bully them into behavin'", it's to not support a company
that doesn't respect our internet rights, period.

They should not have supported SOPA in the first place --especially given that
they are a tech company.

~~~
steventruong
We'll have to agree to disagree here to an extent. As I've said, there comes a
point when all you're doing now is trying to hurt them. Whether you realize it
or not, or whether you can acknowledge it or not, that's blatant bullying.

I whole-heartedly agree with the premise of not supporting GoDaddy on the
premise you're arguing about. Like I said earlier, I'm moving my business
elsewhere either way regardless of the fact that they've let up. But now that
they've let up, blatantly rallying against them even more to damage their
company or going out of your way to continue getting other companies to
continue moving off of them when the original goal was to focus on SOPA itself
(of which seemed accomplish as far as GoDaddy is concerned) is just personal
vendetta.

As I said in my original post above, remember what you're fighting for.
Continuing to destroy GoDaddy isn't going to help push the fight against SOPA
any more or less at this point. Now you're just fighting in anger, in personal
moral beliefs, etc. I perfectly understand where you're coming from, believe
me. Hopefully you see what I'm trying to say as well.

~~~
kls
In the larger picture, other future companies will reflect on GoDaddy actions,
if the pressure was pulled off now the lesson would be, hey you can support
some pretty crappy anti-consumer stuff and then just say hey I am sorry. Now
in GoDaddy's case it's not like they are just passer-by supporters of this
bill, they are culpable in the very creation of it and to assume that they
have now seen the light due to financial punishment, would be to say the least
giving them a lot of credit.

Far worse it would change the very lesson of the historical context of what is
now playing out. You see GoDaddy stepped across the line into politics and
corruption and paid to play, when one starts dealing with politics it is no
longer a business transaction, they are bartering in peoples rights. Doing so
can lead to war, which what GoDaddy is dealing with is very akin to, and
rightfully so, a business deal is one thing, but when you get on the wrong
side of peoples rights, you should expect that those people are going to go to
war. They have every right to do so, because a piece of their freedom is at
stake. It's not about "I'm sorry's" at that point, the stakes are much higher,
an example must be set so that future actors learn that rights are not tools
for barter.

If GoDaddy does not like that they have fired the first shot, then they should
have kept to domains and steered clear of brokering peoples rights for profit.
GoDaddy stepped out of the lines of business and tried to mandate consumers
actions via legislation, no one should expect that they be treated like a
business when they did so, they no loner are because they are not acting like
one, a better definition for them would be the enemy.

In saying that, I do want to thank you, mob rule and justice must be checked,
we must have decent, so that people stop to think about their actions, in my
opinion, they are justified in this case, but we should always take time to
reflect. For me personally, I wrote GoDaddy an email asking how they plan to
financially oppose the legislation now that they are sorry. If I am satisfied
with the answer I will remain, because I think it will make for even greater
historical context, if they have to financially fight the very legislation
that they helped craft. That lesson will resound as an example, for a very
long time and as far as my ethics are concerned it is a narrative that I can
support as a cautionary tale to future business leaders.

~~~
kls
I hate replying to my own post, but it's too late to edit my original post, so
here is the response I received from them:

 _Fighting online piracy is of the utmost importance, which is why Go Daddy
has been working to help craft revisions to this legislation - but we can
clearly do better," Warren Adelman, Go Daddy's newly appointed CEO, said.
"It's very important that all Internet stakeholders work together on this.
Getting it right is worth the wait. Go Daddy will support it when and if the
Internet community supports it._

I am now in the process of transferring out my domains, the fact that they are
revising the legislation and not opposing any regulations signals to me that
they have indeed not learned there lesson and are making PR maneuvers to do
damage control. The fact that they would even entertain working further with a
regulation framework is indicative of their mentality on the matter.
Unfortunately they are probably too far invested to change direction and
become a champion for their customers, as such I am left with little choice.

~~~
steventruong
I was reading somewhere earlier today those exact same words as a statement
publicly made so if you got that in an email, its copy/paste BS.

