
EU brings in 'right to repair' rules for appliances - pseudolus
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49884827
======
deanclatworthy
I don’t share the scepticism shared by other commenters. No matter how you
look at this it’s a step in the right direction. We have needed this
legislation for at least ten years now. Hopefully it will be iterated on and
improved if manufacturers try to find ways around it. The EU has shown it’s
willing to legislate in many areas for the better (and worse).

~~~
mytailorisrich
To play devil's advocate a bit:

Consumers don't want to spend more for appliances. They want cheap. That's why
manufacturers build the way they do (if you want quality over 20 years you're
already free to buy a Miele)

It is rare for an appliance to break down when just out of warranty, and in
any case it is not possible to completely avoid.

I am glad that the new rules do not go farther then they do because I don't
think there is an issue that warrant drastic action and widespread price
increases.

There are plenty of ways to source spare parts and individuals are simply not
able to repair themselves in most cases (and let's not forget health & Safety
regulations).

Edit: Thank you guys for killing off any discussion...

~~~
kilotaras
> Consumers don't want to spend more for appliances. They want cheap.

The consumer cannot easily distinguish between $400(dies after 10 years) and
$300 (dies after 4).

~~~
Joakal
Sometimes it's more like $300 (dies after 10) and $400 (dies after 4). Why?
The marketing trick to price a product higher to look like a premium compared
to competition.

~~~
adamlett
It's hard to disprove that it is _sometimes_ like that, but I would be
extremely sceptical towards any claim that it is _generally_ like that. I
think it is safe to assume that price and quality are correlated in most
cases.

~~~
chopin
Only anecdotal evidence but in my experience price and quality (as in lasting)
are only very weakly correlated. In the past I tended to buy expensive (in
expectation of lasting). The older I get the less I tend to do so even though
I have now more money at my disposal. You're getting crap all the time
independent of the brand.

~~~
Gibbon1
I've noticed quality of ordinary things has been declining for a long time
now. Some things are better due to new technologies. Lot of stuff has just
regressed.

~~~
denton-scratch
Don't know why you were downvoted; new technologies should make things both
cheaper and more reliable, but it doesn't seem to be working, at least not for
white goods.

~~~
burntoutfire
It's probably the opposite in many cases - new technologies allow to build
things that are significantly cheaper, but also less durable. For example,
thanks to precise numerical simulations, you can be much more precise in
designing the elements so that they are as thin/light and use as little
materials as possible. Before the CAD era, you just did it "by feel" and, to
be safe, made things much more sturdier (and more expensive).

~~~
Gibbon1
I have an example of that. In the late 1980's early 90's read an fluff piece
in Product Design News or some such about a team of engineers at GE that got
an award for designing a washing machine tilt sensor. The article then gushed
that the reason this was wonderful was the tilt sensor would allow GE to
replace expensive metal washing machine drum bearings with inexpensive plastic
ones.

Without a tilt sensor they needed to use metal bearing because an out of
balance load would break plastic bearings. But now with the tilt sensor
plastic ones could be used.

------
AdrianB1
I am looking forward to fix the warranty system: if some products are expected
to have a long life, spare parts are part of the problem, warranty is another
one. If a fridge is expected to work for 15 years, mandate by law the minimum
warranty to 12 years for home users, not 2 years. The manufacturers will be
forced to design the products to last at least 12 years or to be very cheap to
maintain, whatever makes more sense. The 2 year warranty in EU is
insignificant in these situations where you have products like fridges,
washing machines or TV sets that you can use for 20 years.

I had from the same company several appliances. The fridge is about 20 years
old and still running. The washing machine broke after 15 years and I had to
replace it due to lack of spare parts. The new washing machine is 5 years old,
full of rust and I already replaced the main motor, that costed 1/3 of the
full price of the machine. The technician that replaced it told me it is
routine now to replace the Chinese motors after 3 to 5 years, a very high
number of these washing machines break now in the first 5 years, but after the
2 years of warranty. They are a multi-brand service, when I asked what brand
he recommends he said he cannot recommend one as they all have problems
lately.

~~~
buckminster
If you want to spend more money on a quality product with long term support
then buy commercial appliances.

~~~
magduf
That might not be feasible. For instance, if you want a commercial oven, that
probably doesn't even fit into a normal residential kitchen.

~~~
buckminster
Commercial kitchens range in size from industrial bakeries larger than
football pitches to tiny pub kitchens. The ovens come in all sizes.

~~~
magduf
Yes, but that doesn't mean they'll actually fit in a standard residential
kitchen space.

In the US, kitchens normally have a very standardized space for the
stove/oven. It's a particular width (I don't know it offhand), and if it's
outfitted for electric, it has a standardized 240V outlet. You can't just put
anything there: it has to be the correct width and height, and have the
correct power cord. There are fancier kitchens with separate ovens and ranges,
but you can't just put those units into an existing kitchen; you'd have to
redo all the cabinetry, which is very expensive.

Also, commercial kitchens generally use gas ovens/ranges. Not all residences
have this available, in fact many just don't. If your area doesn't have
natgas, then you have to have propane installed, and that's expensive to do,
and may not be allowed where you live.

~~~
northwest65
These things are extremely easy to reconfigure, and no cabinetry is not very
expensive. Even utilising just standard residential ovens, they come in 600,
750, and 900 widths, and a variety of heights. There are plenty of commercial
electric ovens available, I assure you.

~~~
magduf
>These things are extremely easy to reconfigure, and no cabinetry is not very
expensive.

Bullshit. It's a lot more expensive than any residential stove, mainly because
of the labor costs.

>Even utilising just standard residential ovens, they come in 600, 750, and
900 widths

Those don't sound like widths in inches, so that doesn't apply here in the US.

~~~
northwest65
Simply not true; the average oven installed these days costs more than all the
cabinetry combined... cabinetry is cheap and easy to reconfigure.

The first result in Google for 'ovens US' even has it in their blurb...

>...find single and double ovens, gas and electric ovens, 24", 27" and 30"
ovens, speedcook and convection ovens...

So yes, it does apply, even in the US of A.

------
gambiting
>>Owners are usually unable to repair the machines themselves - or find anyone
else to do it at a decent price

That's just a result of high labour cost in western countries though. Parts
for appliances are usually pretty cheap, it's getting a specialist to come out
that costs an arm and a leg. A heating element for an oven will be like £40,
but good luck finding someone to come out and fit it for less than £80-100.
Considering you can buy a brand new oven for as little as £200(with free
delivery) the option to replace something instead of repairing it is
unsurprisingly tempting. The further East you go the cheaper the labour gets,
so it's normal that a repair that's completely unreasonable in the UK is
actually pretty reasonable in Poland or Slovakia - the same part fitting would
cost you maybe 50-100PLN(£10-20)? So actually the parts are almost always more
expansive than labour.

~~~
asdaddasdad
So just ship your washing machine to Poland for repairs, I guess. Very energy
efficient.

~~~
gambiting
I mean, washing machines probably aren't worth it because they weigh a lot,
but I know as a fact that if you need to get your OnePlus phone repaired it
will be shipped by next day courier to a repair centre in Warsaw, then shipped
back(I rang them up on Monday, phone was collected on Tuesday, delivered and
repaired on Wednesday, shipped back on Thursday, I got it back on Friday - it
was incredible). I have also done this with a speaker that broke - a local
electronics repair shop wanted £60 just to diagnose the issue, I was driving
over to Poland for summer anyway so I took it with me, a local shop there
charged me an absolutely ridiculous for Poland 2x50PLN/hour(£10/hour) to fix
it + £20 for parts = £40 total. Obviously that completely ignores the cost of
driving over, but I was doing it anyway.

I'm just trying to point out that it's not some grand conspiracy to stop
people from repairing stuff - here in the West labour is just very very
expensive(which means our wages are also very high, so it's hard to complain).
In countries where labour is cheap the same repair suddenly makes sense.

~~~
isostatic
> shipped by next day courier to a repair centre in Warsaw

Don't worry, that will change next month

~~~
StavrosK
What happens next month?

~~~
isostatic
Items being sent from the UK to Warsaw will have to run through customs twice,
attracting very large tarrifs - at least in the "UK->Poland" direction. That's
assuming the airplanes are allowed to fly, and the customs clearence delays
will be measured in days.

~~~
StavrosK
Oh, because of Brexit you mean, it didn't register that the GP was in the UK.

~~~
isostatic
I inferred from "local electronics repair shop wanted £60 just to diagnose the
issue".

------
ajsnigrutin
I know I'm overly optimistic, but every time I see anything regarding
legislation and "repair" keyword, i silently hope for a price limit on spare
parts... and am always disappointed not to see one.

If a new (whole) car(tv,washing machine,...) costs 20k (...) ($,€,..doesn't
matter), and you want to replace some parts, the cost of just a few parts
quickly becomes higher than a whole new unit. In a modern car, just replacing
a few parts costs more than a whole car (both front lights ~1k(eur), rear ones
500eur, ac compressor 500eur(+), radio/navigation unit 1k, foldable mirrors
500eur, 'smart' rearview mirror up to 1k, etc...).

If the sum of costs of all parts to assemble a car is above 2x the price of
the car, someone is getting ripped off, and we all know who that is.

Same with laptops... lcd assembly on a shitty 600eur laptop was quoted as
400eur+tax here (luckily ebay exists) - and that's without labour.

~~~
kube-system
> If the sum of costs of all parts to assemble a car is above 2x the price of
> the car, someone is getting ripped off, and we all know who that is.

Not really. The business models are way different and have different costs.

You're paying for someone to store that part, ship it in low volume to and
from a parts warehouse, market to you, tie up capital in it, and gamble on the
possibility that you'd want to buy it before those models go obsolete.

If you buy 500,000 units via container ship from the factory you could get
them for way cheaper too.

~~~
deogeo
How convenient then that manufacturers keep their costs secret, so we cannot
verify such excuses for extortionate prices.

~~~
kube-system
The components and approximate values of these costs are well known;
manufacturing is a well-established and stable industry.

If you want some actual values, many of these companies are public and file
financial reports:

[https://www.electroluxgroup.com/en/wp-
content/uploads/sites/...](https://www.electroluxgroup.com/en/wp-
content/uploads/sites/2/2019/02/electrolux-annual-report-2018.pdf)

Electrolux cited a 4.3% operating margin in their latest report.

------
pkaye
They need to be designed to be easier to repair too. To replace a thermal fuse
in my dryer requires that I take apart half my dryer. They could have left it
behind some panel in the back.

~~~
noobermin
Small tidbit, but I am delighted when I find boards that still use through-
hole components or chip sockets. Apart from cellphones, you often don't really
need the extra space.

~~~
xxs
BGA are the hard ones and virtually not doable for a home gamer, the rest are
fine.

Imo, through-hole are worse, harder to remove than SMD if you have hot air.

(edit) What is actually necessary for electronics - "schematics" and
datasheets. It's quite hard and time consuming to trace stuff, esp. on
multilayered PCB. Lack of datasheet is even harder to overcome in many cases.

~~~
philpem
Through-hole is easier than SMD with the correct tools. Specifically a vacuum
desoldering tool (Metcal MFR, Pace SX or similar).

~~~
m0xte
Until you pull a pad through on a $20k multilayer board. Been there.

Give me straight, well designed and BGA-less SMD any day. Also Metcal user
here.

~~~
jacquesm
I think you meant 'via'?

~~~
magduf
Not really, no. It's really nit-picking, but a "via" is a (usually small)
plated-through hole that is used solely for connecting traces on different
layers of the board. I'm pretty sure the term isn't normally used for the
plated-thru holes with pads that are used for thru-hole parts, even though the
construction of the two is almost the same. The main differences are that the
holes for PTH parts are usually larger, and the pads around them are larger,
for better soldering. Vias don't need much of a pad around the hole because
you're not putting solder in the hole, and vias are usually covered with
soldermask.

~~~
jacquesm
Yes, really, yes. It isn't nitpicking when you're simply wrong. Via's are
vertical interconnects between layers, they can be 'blind' vias which do not
connect to either top or bottom layers or regular ones.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_(electronics)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_\(electronics\))

~~~
magduf
If you're going to call someone wrong, then you should check to make sure
you're right first. But you aren't:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Through-
hole_technology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Through-hole_technology)

"Plated-through holes are no longer required with SMT boards for making the
component connections, but are still used for making interconnections between
the layers and in this role are more usually called vias.[2]"

Even your own link says nothing about PTH, and just discusses vias for use in
SMT.

~~~
jacquesm
Except that the context was _through hole boards_.

> "Through-hole is easier than SMD with the correct tools. Specifically a
> vacuum desoldering tool (Metcal MFR, Pace SX or similar)."

------
blue_devil
Not bold enough.

This regulation is part of the EU Ecodesign Directive. In fact, repairability
was studied in the 2016-2019 working plan - so for 3-4 years.
[https://europa.eu/rapid/press-
release_MEMO-19-1596_en.htm](https://europa.eu/rapid/press-
release_MEMO-19-1596_en.htm)

>>introduced for refrigerating appliances, household dishwashers, household
washing machines and household washer-dryers, electronic displays and
refrigerating appliances with a direct sales function.

Some more facts here: [https://eeb.org/europe-paves-way-for-right-to-
repair/](https://eeb.org/europe-paves-way-for-right-to-repair/) >> \- The
proportion of defective devices being replaced by consumers grew from 3.5% in
2004 to 8.3% in 2012 (source)

\- This may be costing German consumers €110 a month per person (source)

\- A long-lasting washing machine will generate over 20 years 1.1 tonnes less
CO2 than a short-lived model. This analysis takes into account manufacturing,
distribution, use and end-of-life treatment (source)

\- Electronic waste is the fastest growing waste stream in the world (source)

\- Only 35% of electronic waste in the EU is collected and treated properly
(source)

\- Illegal flows within the EU are estimated at 4.65 million tonnes in 2012
(source)

------
chaz6
One thing I bet it does not include is a requirement to unlock digital devices
when support ends (by providing any private keys required to install 3rd party
software/operating systems). This would help stop a lot of old devices going
to landfill.

~~~
Joakal
Or DRM. Copyright content is often impossible to still own if the remote
servers are down.

------
scotty79
I think this should be mostly about information. Sort of 'right to
understand'. The law should compel companies that sell on EU market to release
to public domain full documentation of the product. Service manuals, precise
dimensions of components and such.

~~~
blue_devil
That's a good point, but I doubt _any_ company can just jump in and produce
spare parts for a branded appliance. So where do you get the parts from?

~~~
TeMPOraL
I'd disagree. Lots of small and medium shops can mass-produce appropriately
twisted pieces of metal (or _appropriately enough_ ) once you give them the
specs. One just need to allow for third-party parts and repair.

------
mywacaday
I wonder if there is a market for a appliance company to have easy to repair
products with easy to source spares that could be done by a competent DIYer I
have to replace a fridge freezer that I inherited as it occasionally
leaks/defrosts, I've already out €200+ into it with a repair engineer to
replace a motor but I don't want to spend more in case it doesn't work and I
have to spend €1000 on a new one anyway.

When I was a teenager my dad got me to replace one of the old rotary switches
on a washing machine with a second hand spare he got, if I recall correctly
there were 30+ wires and I had to label them all, it worked and I was so
satisfied. Now it would be a new PCB and would be difficult to source.

Definitely think there would be a market even if the initial cost was higher.

------
imhoguy
This is already a thing with EU made appliances - new original parts can be
sourced locally or on ebay at good prices.

As non-profesional I managed to replace dishwasher door springs or washing
mashine carbon brushes. It needed some time and research - thanks goodness we
have youtube and hobbists forums. At the end the family acclaim is priceless.

Unfortunatelly it is harder to fix some brands from S.Korea or China - no
parts on the market, hard to open, fragile plastic, glue instead of screws,
rare short lived model lines. My fridge's broken control panel costs about 1/5
of new fridge, plus I am not sure I will manage to assemble it back. This
ruling definitely is going to raise a bar for imported products.

------
Havoc
It's a good thing even if I can't use it directly.

The popularity of old 2nd hand mercs in Africa is a direct result of them
being fairly easy to fix overengineered gear. No need for a laptop to diagnose
it.

So in a way I'm hopeful this will reduce waste indirectly

~~~
dsfyu404ed
>The popularity of old 2nd hand mercs in Africa is a direct result of them
being fairly easy to fix overengineered gear. No need for a laptop to diagnose
it.

Labor is cheap relative to the materials in the 3rd world so they run things
as long as they can get parts. What they actually use has more to do with how
the second hand car market in the first world works than anything else. For
vehicles to be prolific in the 3rd world they need to enter the dealer auction
system en-masse at a young age but not young enough to be re-sold as certified
pre-owned where they are then bought by exporters/importers. These
preconditions basically mean they are bought en-masse by people (or companies)
who will drive them 5-10yr and then trade them in on a new one which basically
means they are bought en-masse by decently well off people. The stuff that
people stretch themselves to buy and then keep until it's totally clapped out
(or sell private party to maximize value) never enters that workflow.

~~~
Havoc
>Labor is cheap relative to the materials in the 3rd world so they run things
as long as they can get parts.

Don't think it's a function of that frankly.

I grew up in South Africa and the market down there is driven by a mentality
you describe - cost consideration, pre-owned, access to parts, certifications
etc. Stuff any westerner would be familiar with.

Head a bit further into ahem "proper" Africa and things changes very rapidly.
e.g. My uncle living in Kenya reckoned that you could get a full transmission
change done on the side of the road i.e. on gravel of the road shoulder (if it
has one). That's where the old tank style mercs come into their own...anyone
with mechanical aptitude and access to tools has a chance. Certified? Nobody
fuckin cares - can you fix it in dust conditions with limited tools?

------
blue_devil
>From 2021, firms will have to make appliances longer-lasting, and they will
have to supply spare parts for machines for up to 10 years.

10 years is not long enough - big appliances can easily live much longer.

Appliance manufacturers should make it a _core_ business to provide repair
services, not think of it as "environmental regulations".

~~~
smartbit
Couldn't agree with you more. 10 years is way too short.

Apple forces iPhone 5S and iPhone 6 owners to buy a new model even if they
work fine after 6 years. Why couldn't a mobile phone work for 15years?

Just think of the US cars in Cuba, build in the 50s and still on the road. If
I remember well, the amount of fossil fuel needed to build a car is more than
it will use during it's lifetime on the road.

Changing to _Less is more_ will require either

\- a disaster (war, flooding, hunger) or

\- long endurance and perseverance against _old thinking_ by Greta Thunberg
and the like.

~~~
artimaeis
> Apple forces iPhone 5S and iPhone 6 owners to buy a new model even if they
> work fine after 6 years. Why couldn't a mobile phone work for 15years?

I'm pretty sure Apple does no such thing. They stop updating product lines
after a certain point, but they don't brick them or anything. In fact, you can
find examples of people using original iPhones just to compare them to the
modern phone amenities.

[https://www.wsj.com/video/series/joanna-stern-personal-
techn...](https://www.wsj.com/video/series/joanna-stern-personal-
technology/living-with-the-original-iphone-
in-2017/790062D5-748C-47CE-A515-549D1C03E6F3)

Really -- our expectations of what our mobile devices should be able to do
have increased so much in the past 10 years that it's simply unrealistic to
expect them to last 15 years or longer. _Maybe_ we're coming closer to a point
where we can expect tech to be usable for longer due to our phones having
processors that are nearly as capable as modern laptop processors.

------
bloogsy
A definite step towards reducing wastage and focusing on improved
functionality for products, instead of planned obsolescence and sealed units
whose warranty is voided if you repair them.

~~~
lugg
Planned obsolescence should be a criminal act.

It's worse than any standard pollution offenses we have in place.

It's surprising we even let companies get away with these practices for this
long. The practice is against consumer interests, socially irresponsible and
utterly reprehensible as a business method.

If you still sit squarely on the side of the companies on this one, realise
capitalisms current growth or bust model is entirely dependent on continual
expenditure of Earth's resources.

------
etaty
It might not be they progress we are hopping for. We still have to pay for the
repair. Increasing the devices guarantee from 2 to 5 years (maybe 10?) is
probably better. Then it will be on producers to provide long lasting devices.

~~~
blue_devil
Rather people would have to pay for it, but upfront (which is more
transparent).

------
greyfox
I watched a right to repair video that suggested that if/when a right to
repair law gets signed in the United States that it will cause OEMs to provide
repair parts/manuals for not only that state but the rest of the country as
well because it would be infeasible to maintain two separate "lines" for the
same device.

Does anyone know if this holds true between continents such as Europe and
America as well? IE: Because OEMs have right to repair laws in Europe they may
just go ahead and furnish America with them as well so they dont have to
maintain two separate product lines?

~~~
creaturemachine
That works for macbooks where there's no difference other than a keyboard, but
appliances are already quite different between NA and EU. Voltage and
frequency are a big one since AC motors have to be built specifically for it.
There's also differences in consumer preferences. You'll never get far selling
24" cooktops and kitchen cabinet washing machines in America.

~~~
greyfox
well do you think that perhaps, setting the voltage and other continental
variance requirements aside, that repair manuals for products released in EU
will coinside (somewhat) for products in the USA? This could potentially be a
game changer for USA repair enthusiasts as we will have SOME form of
foundational documentaion to go on when attempting a repair (or at least i
hope)

And on a side note: Funny how tractors and agricultural equipment were
stricken from USA's right to repair and intellectual property laws.

------
xxs
Give them a build quality/repeatability scale similar to the power efficiency
one.

~~~
js8
Is there a consumer test website that measures repairability?

~~~
archi42
I'm only aware of ifixit.

------
investologia
The main issue is that the new star ratings can only be applied to new
appliances. Does the right to repair law also include a clause making it
easier to repair? If my new dryer has a fried chip, how much will that chip
cost me? Can the 3rd party repair service fix it for cheap? The other big
issue we have other than planned obsolescence is that new electronics are chip
driven and these are proprietary which means either you go to the original
manufacturer and pay quite a bit for the part or throw the damn thing away.

I hope these right to repair laws are solid and also allow the manufacturing
of third party parts. But what I would love to see is an upgrade system for
older appliances. Like a program where you can buy newer more efficient parts
for your appliances instead of buying a whole new one.

------
JonhRTy
Right to repair your car has been in effect for years now.
[https://www.autocare.org/government-affairs/issues/right-
to-...](https://www.autocare.org/government-affairs/issues/right-to-repair/)

------
jalk
The mentioned devices are mains powered (well perhaps not led-lighting) - I
can see why legislators are not eager to just let anybody mess about with
that.

~~~
benj111
Why not? I'm 'allowed' to change a plug, and fuse.

~~~
SmellyGeekBoy
It's difficult to mess up changing a plug or a fuse compared to, say, a motor
in a washing machine or a heating element in a tumble dryer.

To be fair though, with modern houses being RCD protected it's very difficult
for even dangerously-wired appliances to kill someone or cause a fire.

~~~
benj111
I've changed the heating element in my oven, that was simpler than changing a
plug. Plus you'd be surprised by how many people would have trouble wiring up
a plug.

I can understand why manufacturers wouldn't like it, it isn't apparent to me
that the doom and gloom would play out. The people that attempt these repairs
are likely to be self selecting, and if we look at cars or PCs, are the
tinkerer communities for those less safe than the general population? I feel
you could make a case for the opposite. If you have no idea about cars, that
rattle is a thing to be ignored, whereas a person in the know would realise
that it's an impending failure of X.

------
velox_io
Speaking of right to repair, As anyone seen the price of hard drives lately?
External drives are MUCH cheaper (half price in some cases), which seems
backwards when the external drive also comes with an enclosure, power supply
and cables.

Leading to the term 'Shucking', where people buy external drives just for the
drive inside only to discard the rest.

~~~
lotsofpulp
Do you have an example of the same quality hard drive being cheaper as an
external hard drive? I find that hard to believe, and would presume inferior
hard drives are being sold in external cases.

~~~
velox_io
Sure, as of right now:- WD 10TB Elements Desktop External Hard Drive £184.26
(the 12TB version has been as low as £180) [https://www.amazon.co.uk/WD-
Elements-Desktop-Hard-Drive/dp/B...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/WD-Elements-
Desktop-Hard-Drive/dp/B07G364YHX/)

In the comments from the above (you'll find similar in other comments, and on
Reddit & YouTube). The Harddrive inside is a WD100EMAZ (WD Red 10TB), which
currently retails for £318.68
[https://www.amazon.co.uk/Red-10TB-3-5-SATA-5400rpm/dp/B07194...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Red-10TB-3-5-SATA-5400rpm/dp/B0719498XY)

It's even running the same firmware. It makes no sense, the only logic I see
is that customers are willing to pay more for the 'enhanced features'. If you
look into this, you'll find no manufacture states the read and write speeds of
their USB drives, making it a little harder to compare, so there is a little
luck of the draw in what you actually get. Seagate are similar:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/8thr34/seagate...](https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/8thr34/seagate_backup_plus_hub_10tb_has_a_barracuda_pro/)

~~~
lotsofpulp
Your first amazon link is for a product sold by Amazon.com and the second link
(the hard drive itself) is being sold by a different merchant, so they are not
comparable as the third party sellers have weird pricing for various reasons.

~~~
velox_io
That's strange, Take Newegg (both instock):-

WD My Book 10TB USB 3.0 External - $185.99 (free shipping)
[https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16822234346](https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16822234346)

WD Red 10TB NAS Hard Disk Drive $283.98 (with $3.99 shipping)
[https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16822231546](https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16822231546)

So it's still ~$100 cheaper. Like I said before, this isn't the only example.

~~~
lotsofpulp
That's interesting, what a ridiculous way to price discriminate.

I also found this conversation while trying to find out kind of HDD it is:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/8ghb0o/wd_mybo...](https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/8ghb0o/wd_mybook_10tb_shucking/)

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known
Not always plausible;

When the LS 400 was disassembled for engineering analysis, Cadillac engineers
concluded that the vehicle could not be built using existing GM methods

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus_LS#Industrial_signific...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus_LS#Industrial_significance)

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wjnc
This will not help (enough). There is a problem with regards to other EU
regulation regarding warranty. Suppose my appliance breaks down after three
years. The seller should organise the repair and pay a major part of the cost
(function of the expected lifetime). That's EU law. However: they can choose
the repair company. Large firms insource this, thus being able to set repair
prices. Then this law is moot. Once I turn over my broken appliance for
repair, I have to pay a fee to get it back unrepaired. So market forces cannot
play since the price setting of repairs is broken. Nice that some appliances
get better repairability, but this only works after the expected lifetime of
the appliance. Within the expected lifetime you are still stuck with inflated
repair prices.

Edit: see below. This is partially false. In the Netherlands this problem
exists since they've implemented a broader warranty (2 years plus depreciation
over expected lifetime) than the EU mandates. EU wide is just 2 years warranty
and this law facilitates repairs afterwards.

~~~
gmueckl
What are you talking about? Warranty implies that the manufacturer foots the
repair bill.

~~~
wjnc
You are right. Problem stated above only exists in the Netherlands since our
lawmaker implemented an even broader warranty than mandated under EU law.

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tcd
Links to the rules please? BBC didn't share a link to the legislation. Google
yields nothing.

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amelius
Does this mean I can now repair the OS of my phone?

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fithisux
It is a very positive step. They should also mandate releasing the source of
the drivers.

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ketsa
Veeery narrow, only for lighting, washing machines, dishwashers and
fridges....

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umvi
Finally, some EU legislation I can fully get behind

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ur-whale
Feel good regulation feels good until one tries to get a startup off the
ground and regulation throws giant monkey wrench in the works.

This is EU bureaucrats at their worse.

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degski
The result is obvious, spare parts will be available for ten years, but at
crazy prices.

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pnako
If those parts are standard there is no reason for them to be too expensive.

~~~
asdaddasdad
Can you build an iPhone from standard parts?

~~~
pnako
This is a law for appliances.

~~~
asdaddasdad
Nevertheless the same issue applies. You can't build everything from standard
components.

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Bostonian
This is actually a restriction of consumer choice. If I am willing to buy a
product without "right to repair", the government should not stop me from
doing so. Many appliances are cheap enough that it makes sense to buy new ones
when they stop working.

~~~
anoncake
Consumer choice is restricted by default: You can only buy what is being sold.
This is just the democratically elected bodies of the EU changing that
selection.

