
Ask HN: Why are banks offering me jobs, but not tech companies? - adviceplease
I'm in need of some tough loving professional advice.<p>Background: early 20's, no college degree, significant work experience (full-time, contract, and high-profile internships).<p>I've spent the past few months applying for "career jobs"; hoping to focus my time and efforts over the next few years on progressing up the ladder within one company. As someone who takes ownership of their work, I'm tired of jumping around from gig to gig as an outsider and really want to take pride in being a dependable, go-getting team player for 'Company X'.<p>So, after casting a wide net, I started hearing from recruiters--mostly banks/financial institutions and large tech companies--almost immediately. Interestingly, the application process for the banks were the most organized and I received my first offer within a month. The tech companies on the other-hand couldn't quite figure me out... For starters, at one tech co. an interviewer insisted on knowing my salary requirements, and because it was a company I really wanted to work for, I responded by saying "flexible". She asked me again, and I told her about a job offer from a bank and she looked up to say, "who wants to work at a bank?". The interview ended abruptly and the next day I found out the company wasn't going to proceed.<p>While all this was going on, I was truckin' along through Google's application process. Considering how competitive Google's hiring requirements are, I was not feeling optimistic until they invited me to the final, on-site interviews. I left their offices (which are awesome btw) feeling really good. I honestly thought that it could not have gone any better. Unfortunately, the next day I was told they were proceeding with different applicants. My heart dropped into my stomach; I had come so far, tempted by the possibility of being a part of the dreamy Google culture, only to be shot down in the end.<p>Despite not having a college degree, I'm a fairly straight-arrow professional. I take work very seriously, and so I dressed-up (coat and tie) to all my interviews to reflect that. Considering the stark contrast in culture between banks and Silicon Valley tech companies, is this character trait playing against me at places like Google? I can't help but over-analyze the situation as all my cards seem to be falling on one side of the table.<p>I'll take any advice I can get from the HN community. Thanks everyone.
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brudgers
When interviewing, do your research and wear the appropriate uniform, so to
speak. A little overdressing goes a long way - tweed sportcoat might be fine
for an interview with a golf-shirt and dockers office, but it's probably
inappropriate for a Tevas and baggies workplace (though dockers and a golf
shirt is fine).

If you are the kind of person who wants to wear a suit everyday, then working
at a bank is more likely to provide a better cultural fit - it's as simple as
that. In other words, take each interview seriously enough to know when under-
dressing is ok.

~~~
adviceplease
"Sorry! My Prada's at the cleaners along with my hoodie and my fuck-you-flip-
flops you pretentious douchebag!"

No, but in all seriousness, I get (and appreciate) what you're saying.
Considering my less than conventional educational background, I just wanted to
exude my seriousness in the workplace. But as you mention, culture is
extremely important at Google, and I trust that they have interviewed enough
people to know who "fits" their organization; regardless of one's capacity to
do the job.

~~~
actionbrandon
I think you are over worried about your educational background, and its kind
of messing with you. If google or anybody thought your background was crappy,
you wouldn't be interviewing there at all.

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sandstrom
I agree with what others have said, it good to dress appropriately (typically
a notch above what people at the firm typically wears). That said, I don't
think you should focus too much on clothes.

Google, the better I-banks, etc. will have a recruiting process that's
professional enough that they won't reject applicants because they were a bit
too formally (or informally) dressed -- especially for a position that won't
be customer-facing (I'm assuming you aren't applying to sales jobs).

I'd call up the firms you've interviewed for and ask what they liked and
didn't like about you, ask them to be honest. Most interviewers will answer!

~~~
dpark
> _Google, the better I-banks, etc. will have a recruiting process that's
> professional enough that they won't reject applicants because they were a
> bit too formally (or informally) dressed -- especially for a position that
> won't be customer-facing (I'm assuming you aren't applying to sales jobs)._

I disagree. The recruiting process is still based pretty much entirely on
human judgement. If you come into a t-shirt culture wearing a suit, it hurts
you. The interviewer is looking at you thinking "why is this guy in a suit?"
and it's a strike against you, just as surely as coming underdressed would be.
You don't want to give the interviewer superficial reasons to vote "no hire".

> _I'd call up the firms you've interviewed for and ask what they liked and
> didn't like about you, ask them to be honest. Most interviewers will
> answer!_

No, they won't. Most large companies have policies against revealing why a
candidate was eliminated. Revealing that info opens them up to litigation.
"Oh, you say I wasn't hired because I don't know Python, but then you hired
this other guy who doesn't know Python. Must be because I'm [some trait that
probably wasn't a factor but might be grounds for a lawsuit if I can convince
12 random people on a jury]".

------
ich
1) Unless you have moral problems with the business domain, why not for a
bank? Good salaries, interesting / challenging work, usually mature career
development programs, ....

2) I had similar experiences. While our situations differs in some key aspects
(I'm much older, have university degrees, long work history), my work history
has also not been the text-book IT career path for most of the time. I also
found banks much more interested in me than IT firms.

3) My speculation on why that is: Banks are better (in light of recent bank
problems, maybe "more willing") at risk taking. Your circumstances make you
less predictable than a candidate that has a "standard" career path. Big
corporate IT is a lot about minimising risk. IT chooses the candidate that
poses the least risk of a bad hiring decision. Banks may be willing to accept
higher risk for higher potential return. My speculation is based on
conversations I had about this topic with a small sample hiring managers at
banks and IT HR managers I worked with.

------
ig1
I'm guessing that company that was insistent about the salary was doing so
because they knew they'd be paying below market rates, and once they knew you
had an offer from a bank who typically make above-market offers they probably
thought it would make little sense to proceed with you.

------
throwaway1979
I don't "get" Google's interview process. I've gotten to the final interview
twice. Both times I felt I had nearly flawless interviews. I've heard that
Google's recruitment philosophy is that they would rather sacrifice many good
candidates than take the chance of letting a bad one slip by. I call BS on
this. Like most things in life, getting an offer from Google requires some
amount of luck. Don't take it hard that you didn't get in.

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pavel_lishin
> She asked me again, and I told her about a job offer from a bank and she
> looked up to say, "who wants to work at a bank?".

I wouldn't have mentioned who the other offer came from. It's not something
they need to know.

Are you actually flexible? Surely there's an amount you like. I would have
said something like, "I have an offer for $X a year, but I'd much rather
prefer working for you, so my minimum would be $Y," where $Y < $X.

~~~
adviceplease
From my point of view: she insisted on knowing, so I figured by mentioning the
bank offer that she would get a sense of my salary range and in-turn value to
another company.

Honestly, as someone who has an interest working with large data-sets, I took
her remark ("who wants to work at a bank?") as somewhat insulting. This
specific interviewer was not a hiring manager, but rather questioning me for
"cultural fit". I asked how long she had been with said company and she
admitted "less than three months," which surprised me. I really got the sense
that her hating on banks was regurgitated water-cooler verbatim, because she
definitely had no experience working for one.

As a young professional working in technology, I think banks present
interesting big-data challenges.

~~~
devs1010
A lot of recruiters are idiots, for one, and two, their main skill is in
manipulating people, i.e. sales. The shady ones will always do what they can
to get a leg up, including bad mouthing companies that they are not
representing, I've had it happen more than once when talking with a recruiter.

That said, I work with other software developers who have worked for a few of
the major banks and they said it was awful, basically, I don't think its bank-
specific, but there is a major divide between a company that's primary
function is to produce software and one whose isn't, and banks do not exist to
produce software, its just a means to and end for them, so projects are
managed as such and developers are treated as such.

