
India is drying up - akbarnama
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/comment/india-is-drying-up-fast/789376.html
======
Arun2009
Monsoons have been a dud so far. Our well nearly dried up, and we were
planning to shift should water run out. The municipal water supply is useless.
The irony: my state (Kerala) receives around 3000+ mm rainfall per year on
average, and suffered from devastating floods last year.

I feel sad when Indians wank about military technology and "national security"
issues due to Pakistan and China. The single greatest national security threat
for India is Indians' abject incompetence in governing themselves. I fear that
we will pay a very heavy price for this.

~~~
luminati
"The single greatest national security threat for India is Indians' abject
incompetence in governing themselves."

Why don't you learn from your Northerly neighbors (China) on how to run
government? One thing I find in my travels to India, is how much abject
contempt you guys have towards the Chinese way of doing things. Unbelievable -
considering the cultures are very similar (Buddhist thought has historical
played a major roles in both cultures), similar population sizes, etc..

No, let's follow a political system that has had no organic roots/development
in the country and pretend all are literate folks who are capable of holding a
debate on what policies are good for their country, while the politicians take
out everyone to the cleaners.

~~~
iamgopal
Was that sarcasm?

------
graeme
Basically I think our civilization is default dead.

As Paul Graham put it in another context:

"Why do so few founders know whether they're default alive or default dead?
Mainly, I think, because they're not used to asking that."

People aren't used to thinking of civilization in these terms. We make
retirement plans etc divorced from the projections of change to come. If we
rationally considered priorities, you'd see much more popular support for
actions designed to address the problem, such as increasing carbon taxes,
cutting other taxes, and making an international framework to get other
countries to do the same.

There's a scene in 12 Monkeys where the protagonist is in a mental hospital in
the past, before a virus takes out the civilization. The psychologist asks if
he came back to "help" them. The protagonist looks confused and says "how can
I help you? You're all dead".

We have such a flurry of concern and activity aimed at the present. I can't
help but have a similar feeling when I observe people making plans and not
accounting for the predicted future, even if they claim to "believe" in
climate change.

If people truly believed in it, you'd see much different political priorities.
Right now effective action tends to be unpopular. Income taxes (taxing a good
thing) have much more political support than carbon taxes (taxing a bad
thing). I find the situation baffling.

More from Paul Graham's article:

"There is another reason founders don't ask themselves whether they're default
alive or default dead: they assume it will be easy to raise more money. But
that assumption is often false, and worse still, the more you depend on it,
the falser it becomes."

We assume it will be easy to solve problems in the future, with future
technology. Or that we will have surplus resources in the future, when
worsening conditions cut crop yields, cut water, increase civil strife, and
when the global population is larger and total emissions are higher.

[http://www.paulgraham.com/aord.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/aord.html)

~~~
orcdork
Yes, the absolutely correct group to take ideas from as far as our semi-long
term survival goes is VCs (and the surrounding ecosystem), the same group that
made "move fast and break things" the mantra for a decade. Nothing bad ever
came out of that!

~~~
graeme
This is pure ad hominem. Do you have nothing to contribute?

You're saying:

1\. I don't like vc's, because a startup founder said "move fast and break
things"

2\. Paul Graham didn't fund that founder, but he was a vc

3\. Ergo, every idea paul graham has is bad

4\. Ergo, this specific essay is bad

5\. So, anything that mentions this essay's ideas is wrong

6\. Your post is wrong

Do you disagree with the concept of default dead? Are you arguing that it's
impossible to be in such a state as a civilization? If you have an actual
critique I'd be interested to hear it.

------
f_allwein
> while 2018 was the fourth hottest year on record in the past 140 years since
> the world began to keep a track on temperatures, NASA expects 2019 to be
> still hotter.

In this context, here's an interesting map on what the world will look like 4
degrees warmer: [https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/what-the-world-will-
look-l...](https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/what-the-world-will-look-
like-4degc-warmer) \- apparently, much of the Indian subcontinent will be
uninhabitable...

~~~
Mikeb85
The earth was once 6 degrees warmer according to the geologic record. From
what we know, it looked nothing like that map.

Edit - here, for people who can't do their own homework:
[https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/travel-
through...](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/travel-through-deep-
time-interactive-earth-180952886/)

And:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_temperature_record](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_temperature_record)

~~~
SketchySeaBeast
> From what we know, it looked nothing like that map.

Yes, because at that point it was a map of pangea.

~~~
Mikeb85
I posted a map. During the Jurassic, the world was much warmer, greener, and
Pangea was already broken up, although the continents weren't in their current
positions. They did span from pole to pole however.

The point is that the map posted by OP is junk and not based on any science,
just alarmist rhetoric.

------
r_singh
My office building has recently adopted water harvesting (which is an ancient
practice in many parts of India).

Mumbai receives a LOT of rain, and I’m glad that we’re able to divert some of
it to the ground water table.

Seeing this succeed, I’m pushing the same for my building too, I’m surprised
to see a lot of my neighbours have problems with the same (cause of wastage of
a common terrace), I should send them this article.

~~~
rusticpenn
I heard things are critical in southern India, apparently restaurants are
closed, our offshore guys are working from home, using starbucks for toilets
etc... is this true?

~~~
oasisbob
I'm here in Chennai, and things are bad, but it's hard to tell _how_ bad. So
much of the water is trucked anyways - Chennai doesn't have a well developed
unified water system.

As a foreigner who has visited several times, here's what I've noticed:

\- lots more people on the street with those iconic plastic water containers.
Lots more water trucks on the road.

\- water quality is BAD. Even in upper-class highrise condos, the water has
much more odor and color. In this building, salinity is way up too. There's a
reverse-osmosis plant here, but it's only on for several hours a day because
RO systems waste so much water.

\- haven't seen many restaurant closures, but I'm sure they're happening.

\- a lot of hotels targeting westerners have advanced filtration and reverse-
osmosis plants, seem to still be operating. Some pools are drained.

\- water pressure in some neighborhoods is so low that it's only a trickle at
the tap. News says some people are using pumps to pull of the metro system,
making things worse.

Overall, it seems like bad expensive water is still out there if you can
afford it and want to pay.

------
mc32
Climate change and weather patterns change coupled with over a billion people
in a country (roughly) the size of Argentina is bound to have water problems
as per capita consumption grows with wealth.

Conservation + Desalination is the only way here.

~~~
assblaster
Why are you attributing water deficit with climate change? Increasing
atmospheric water vapor leads to larger storms, floods, and overabundance of
ground water.

India's problem is overconsumption and population excess. Until India is able
to reduce their population by 50% or more, their water shortages will continue
to worsen. A sizeable decrease in their population will also reduce their
power consumption needs, so they'll be able to close their coal power plants
instead of opening dozens more.

~~~
criley2
It's more complicated than that. Climate change doesn't lead to global
increased atmospheric water vapor and the water cycle is very complicated on a
global scale. Climate change leads to floods and storms... and droughts and
wildfires. Some areas could see greatly increase groundwater recharge while
others will see greatly reduced recharge. Even if the global net effect were
to increase water, there would still be extreme examples of local droughts
causing extreme water stress.

In the U.S. for example climate change is leading to decreased rainfall
meaning less runoff and less groundwater recharge. The southeast of the US is
going to have some very serious water issues for the next generation, albeit
not as soon as India.

~~~
jessaustin
_In the U.S. for example climate change is leading to decreased rainfall
meaning less runoff and less groundwater recharge._

Where are you getting this? It certainly doesn't agree with figures published
by the government. [0] The aquifers that are dropping are dropping because of
massive well pumping. The wildfires are because we've stockpiled understory
fuel while building homes in fire-prone forests. Overstating the case for
global warming will convince some people, but others will only grow more
skeptical.

[0] [https://www.drought.gov/drought/data-maps-tools/current-
cond...](https://www.drought.gov/drought/data-maps-tools/current-conditions)

~~~
criley2
[https://nca2014.globalchange.gov/highlights/report-
findings/...](https://nca2014.globalchange.gov/highlights/report-
findings/water-supply)

>Surface and groundwater supplies in some regions are already stressed by
increasing demand as well as declining runoff and groundwater recharge. In
some regions, particularly the southern U.S. and the Caribbean and Pacific
islands, climate change is increasing the likelihood of water shortages and
competition for water. Water quality is diminishing in many areas,
particularly due to increasing sediment and contaminant concentrations after
heavy downpours.

I find that people's skepticism regarding climate change has almost nothing to
do with data and evidence and nearly everything to do with their personal
politics, to the extent that I draw a causative link between right-leaning
politics and "climate skepticism".

~~~
jessaustin
You made a specific claim about rainfall. That claim contradicted my
experience over the last several years. I searched for "USA drought", and a
very simple government site confirmed there is no drought underway in USA.
(EDIT: there certainly _will_ be a drought in future, just as there will be
floods and hurricanes and comfortable sunny days with light breezes.) I'm not
sure what this most recent link is supposed to prove, but I'm not going to
wade through it. I only consider specifics when it comes to weather/climate.

~~~
criley2
Let me get this straight, you asked me to source my claim that climate change
will affect america, so I use an official government report titled "National
Climate Assessment" which details the effects on America, and you're rejecting
this canonical source?

Your reply is "I'm not reading this, I did a fast google search instead?"

Oof owie, my intellectualism.

I shouldn't have to spoon feed you after I gave you an extremely high quality
source.

But whatever:

"Climate changes pose challenges for an already parched region that is
expected to get hotter and, in its southern half, significantly drier.
Increased heat and changes to rain and snowpack will send ripple effects
throughout the region’s critical agriculture sector, affecting the lives and
economies of 56 million people – a population that is expected to increase 68%
by 2050, to 94 million. Severe and sustained drought will stress water
sources, already over-utilized in many areas, forcing increasing competition
among farmers, energy producers, urban dwellers, and plant and animal life for
the region’s most precious resource."

>Theobald, D. M., W. R. Travis, M. A. Drummond, and E. S. Gordon, 2013: Ch. 3:
The Changing Southwest. Assessment of Climate Change in the Southwest United
States: A Report Prepared for the National Climate Assessment, G. Garfin, A.
Jardine, R. Merideth, M. Black, and S. LeRoy, Eds., Island Press, 37-55
[http://swccar.org/sites/all/themes/files/SW-NCA-color-
FINALw...](http://swccar.org/sites/all/themes/files/SW-NCA-color-FINALweb.pdf)

~~~
jessaustin
Oh, now we're talking about the South _west_? I would have sworn that the
topic was the South _east_? I've lived in both areas, and I would classify
them as having different climates. Sorry, is that too specific?

~~~
criley2
Haha you really do represent the ideal climate "skeptic"

* reject evidence for non-sense reasons

* over reliant on public search engines for quick, contextless answers

* pedantry rather than discussion

* a complete and total inability to find any meaningful evidence for yourself

For the record, my original comment in this thread has always been about the
Southwest, but since you're behaving as such an anti-intellectual bad actor,
I'll continue spoon feeding you the data that you're clearly too lazy to even
try to understand

"Freshwater supplies from rivers, streams, and groundwater sources near the
coast are at risk from accelerated saltwater intrusion due to higher sea
levels. Porous aquifers in some areas make them particularly vulnerable to
saltwater intrusion., For example, officials in the city of Hallandale Beach,
Florida, have already abandoned six of their eight drinking water wells."

>Obeysekera, J., M. Irizarry, J. Park, J. Barnes, and T. Dessalegne, 2011:
Climate change and its implications for water resources management in south
Florida. Stochastic Environmental Research and Risk Assessment, 25, 495-516,
doi:10.1007/s00477-010-0418-8.

>Berry, L., F. Bloetscher, H. N. Hammer, M. Koch-Rose, D. Mitsova-Boneva, J.
Restrepo, T. Root, and R. Teegavarapu, 2011: Florida Water Management and
Adaptation in the Face of Climate Change. 68 pp., Florida Climate Change Task
Force

That's just one way that climate change is negatively affecting groundwater in
the US south east and how freshwater is becoming more scarce in America due
directly to climate change

Have any more ignorance-fueling pedantry to use to avoid discussing the topic
at hand?

Maybe you'll try reading a source? Nah, you'll just Google search it!

~~~
jessaustin
Next time maybe just don't say something trivially verifiably false about
recent rain totals in USA? Look I understand the world is ending. As excited
as people get about trivial bullshit, doesn't it seem strange that despite
their professed beliefs they've all done absolutely nothing about the end of
the world? Maybe that conundrum could inform your future discussion board
evangelism...

------
harryf
Last year there was “Rally for Rivers” aimed at addressing some of the
problems India faces -
[https://www.google.com/amp/s/relay.nationalgeographic.com/pr...](https://www.google.com/amp/s/relay.nationalgeographic.com/proxy/distribution/public/amp/2018/03/rally-
for-rivers-un-world-water-day-spd)

~~~
gbuk2013
And, fortunately, it looks like it is getting some traction:
[https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/sadhguru-
bri...](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/sadhguru-brings-rally-
for-rivers-back-to-maharashtra-with-revival-plan-for-
waghari/articleshow/69670513.cms)

------
dugluak
Didn't NASA report recently that earth is greener than 20 years ago due to
China and India?

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19228922](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19228922)

~~~
Mikeb85
Yup. But let's not let science get in the way of alarming headlines...

~~~
skinnymuch
Read the article. It isn’t as simple as the headline. It’s not good to assume
a headline answers all and is the only thing that needs to be known?l.

~~~
Mikeb85
I read the article. It's mainly about reviving traditional methods of
conserving water. The headline is far more alarming.

Versus news like this: [https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/02/one-third-of-
world-s-...](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/02/one-third-of-world-s-new-
vegetation-in-china-and-india-satellite-data-shows/)

------
nilsocket
Recently, government of India, started to look into this problem, some part's
of India get too much of rain, and others live in drought.

They are trying to link up all Indian water bodies.

[https://www.livemint.com/news/india/a-wish-list-on-water-
fro...](https://www.livemint.com/news/india/a-wish-list-on-water-from-parched-
india-1560265588046.html)

~~~
devdas
Which will fuck up river ecologies :(

~~~
naruvimama
People are so comfortable pumping the environment air, water and soil with
fertilizers, pestisides, antibiotics, plastic, smoke and toxic waste. We have
wiped out large areas of forests, over produce and waste food. Why is that we
have suddenly become so sensitive when we want to connect waterways. Yes there
can be ecological imbalances, but is a very small price to pay compared to all
the horrors that we commit.

------
sailfast
> 21 cities — including the four metropolises — Bengaluru, Chennai, Hyderabad
> and Delhi — will run out of groundwater by 2020.

Is that a validated statistic? If so, how is the entire country not panicking
about this? That seems like a really serious problem.

~~~
sreekanthr
I cannot comment about other cities, Bengaluru it was a known issues.
Primarily big builders who launch their projects dig up multiple borewell and
pump out the groundwater. When government realized that ground water levels
were getting depleted they did make rainwater harvesting mandatory. Yet it is
either shoddily implemented or never implemented.

Ref:
[https://bangaloremirror.indiatimes.com/bangalore/civic/benga...](https://bangaloremirror.indiatimes.com/bangalore/civic/bengaluru-
slips-up-on-rainwater-harvesting-despite-being-mandatory-59000-structures-yet-
to-have-the-facility-installed/articleshow/64846543.cms)

Most of the apartment complexes water supplies are provided by tankers. Local
politicians have stake in these tanker services, so it is in their best
interest to make sure local populace is dependent on the these tankers and not
on government connections which is heavily backlogged.

Few societies, residents do get together invest their own money to get proper
water harvesting, but that is far and few to even make a noticeable
difference. Builders most of them flat out refuse to build robust water
harvesting systems.

~~~
sailfast
This is really insightful. Thank you. I had no idea so much was dependent on
tanker trucks.

------
airza
Climate change and the huge imbalance of men to women in india makes it seem
like water wars are inevitable in the region in the next 20-30 years.

------
nilsocket
I live in India, and I can literally feel the difference.

But, what I'm surprised of is, many plants didn't dry up. And they are in good
condition.

------
AareyBaba
Paani Foundation - if you are looking for a heartwarming story of a village in
India that overcame water scarcity through rain water harvesting (and a good
organization to donate to)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTSGF1KQ1UQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTSGF1KQ1UQ)

------
sudipnth
If you feel depressed after reading this, watch how one person initiated the
clean up of an entire beach in Mumbai which was covered with 5 feet of filth:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0ka45g4Fyc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0ka45g4Fyc)

------
petilon
California is drying up too. [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/depleting-the-
water/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/depleting-the-water/) Our planet's
groundwater is being pumped out much faster than it can be replenished.

~~~
EGreg
What happened to desalination? The oceans are ripe for desalination!

[https://phys.org/news/2019-06-hot-efficiency-solar-
desalinat...](https://phys.org/news/2019-06-hot-efficiency-solar-
desalination.html)

One can do it even by focusing sunlight, why can’t they do it at industrial
scale? I think Israel started to.

[https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/israel-proves-
the...](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/israel-proves-the-
desalination-era-is-here/)

They used to import icebergs. (It’s a good example of Cunningham’s law.)

------
hangonhn
Can someone please enlighten us about the traditional water conservation or
restoration methods he alludes to? I'm super curious because apparently they
have enough merit that Texas A&M is looking into them. Thanks!

~~~
gbuk2013
My guess is things like this:
[https://www.thebetterindia.com/61757/traditional-water-
conse...](https://www.thebetterindia.com/61757/traditional-water-conservation-
systems-india/)

~~~
newsumworld
See also this article: [https://newsum.in/news/swimmers-can-track-sweat-
through-an-u...](https://newsum.in/news/swimmers-can-track-sweat-through-an-
underwater-skin-sensor-now/)

------
sametmax
So no more water in a country saturated with pollution, full of 1.7 billion of
people with huge social tensions, bad relationships at borders and the atomic
bomb.

What could go wrong.

------
godelmachine
Divert water from all 3 rivers in Kashmir down south into mainland India.

Abrogate the Indus Water Treaty brokered by World Bank.

~~~
yellowflash
Divert to Ganges and make it a sewage too?

This idea is bad in so many ways. It's gross hatred due to mass propaganda.
First rule for sustainable water management is having local water supply used
locally. We need better water management at individual city/village level like
reviving lakes have a good ground water recharge etc.. Diverting rivers and
desalination ideas are going to have huge ecological cost even if we forget
about the economical possibility of them.

