
Why are there so few black people in STEM? - thangkan
https://www.labroots.com/trending/chemistry-and-physics/17877/black-people-stem
======
DeonPenny
I'd like to see how many poorer men in general. I'm a black engineer and I
couldn't count how many of my classmates would have graduated if they were in
my shoes.

There were 4-5 weeks at different where I just ran out money and sat on bed
instead of eating thinking I couldn't be hungry is I was sleep. I usually
found enough money to collect to buy a bag of rice for the month. But
regardless of race this is hard. Given there no attempt to help anyone with
anything as simple as a food shelter on college campus why would they stay.

It's kind of un-nerving watching some engineers friends discuss this. It's
kind of arrogant and presumptuous. I'm not even close to the smart person I
grew up with. When they discuss that maybe black people may not have the
intellect, that I know a guy who was forced to work a meat packing plant that
could run circles around you in any STEM subject, but wasn't given the
opportunity or was willing to starve himself for the chance.

I think the US leaves a lot of talent on the cutting room floor especially
those interested in subject we deem essential. It's pretty saddening.

~~~
belval
If I can provide an interesting data point, I had access to a survey given to
students at one college that asked a few questions to cross it with the
student's results.

Guess which was the undeniably most common issue among people failing two
classes or more? Financial insecurity.

It's hard figuring out a solution there as that was in a country with cheap
(not free but still) education.

~~~
cbsks
Anecdotally, of my friend group in college (at a large state school in the US)
everyone who was financially stable eventually graduated with a bachelors
degree. 3 out of 4 of my friends who were paying themselves through college
dropped out. Having a part time job and trying to go to school full time took
a huge toll on them.

~~~
chii
> Having a part time job and trying to go to school full time took a huge toll
> on them.

Would it have been better to part time both job and college? Instead of 3-4
yrs for a degree, it takes 6-8 years, but you also work part time during.

This route exists for many colleges - why not do this?

~~~
codycraven
My wife and I personally did this. I took 6 years, she took 8 (we had a baby
and she got a teaching credential, which is why hers took longer).

Graduated without any debt, but it was rediculously hard, especially in years
4-5.5 when I lost my job (2008 recession) and survived solely off rice, turkey
hotdogs, and whitebread (leaving barely enough to cover diapers/medical.

------
neffy
For the same reason there are so few poor whites in STEM. America's
dysfunctional education funding.

Make education funding federal, and have a nationwide push to have small
classes and well funded schools for everybody, and this would be fixed in 10
years. As it is, rich districts pay more taxes and get better schools. Funny
that.

~~~
CyanLite2
Why is that the first thing people think of when it comes to explaining black
behavior is that they must be poor? Not all black people are poor. Stop it
with the stereotypes.

~~~
scarface74
It’s not about stereotypes. I am sure that everyone on HN knows that not all
Black people are poor. I am Black by the way.

But, we also have to look at statistics and think longitudinally instead of
anecdotally.

I came from a middle class family in a small town in the south. But my mom
being a well connected high school math teacher did give me some advantages.

When I graduated from college, I had a choice between taking a job in a
slightly larger city where I could have afforded to take care of myself or
move to Atlanta where I could get a job as a computer operator based on a
previous internship. But the pay was crap.

I wanted to move to Atlanta because I knew I would have more opportunities. My
parents had already bought me car, they subsidized me for the first year, and
the rest is history - I was able to network my way into getting a software
development position. This was in the late 90s.

My classmate couldn’t afford to make those choices. He was stuck taking a
COBOL programming job in the 90s - the same job I turned down and still is
doing that to this day in the same city.

~~~
blackrock
Nice story. COBOL programmers started making some serious money with Y2K. At
least, the contractors started billing advanced hourly rates. And were making
more than they ever did.

And from what I’ve been seeing, COBOL just isn’t going anywhere. Those
mainframes really are built to last. So he should probably have a job for the
rest of his life. I hope he’s got a nice pension.

~~~
scarface74
I hope so. I posted on Facebook that I found my old FORTRAN, Pascal and COBOL
textbooks from college when I went home to visit my parents and tagged him and
few other classmates.

We graduated in the mid 90s. The book was last updated in 1985. He told me he
was still programming in COBOL. I just got quiet. I didn’t know. I didn’t mean
to insult him.

------
_hardwaregeek
I wonder how many people on HN have experienced being the only person of their
race in the room. In my case I was put into a French public school where I was
the only Asian student. It took me a bit to realize why I found that
experience so shitty. The language and culture barrier was definitely a
factor. But also it just sucks standing out. Sometimes this difference
manifests as racism. Sometimes it manifests as simpering. Either way the
manifestation reinforces your otherness, your difference.

There are certainly people who can surmount these obstacles and fit in. Who
have the charm and charisma to ingratiate themselves into any group in any
place. I'm not one of those people. I'm not obligated to be one of those
people. Those people are quite rare.

Another point: Perhaps there are fewer Black people in STEM because Black
people have more pressing issues. If I were Black and intelligent, I'd
probably be interesting in combating larger social issues and not
biochemistry. But that's just me.

~~~
scarface74
_Another point: Perhaps there are fewer Black people in STEM because Black
people have more pressing issues. If I were Black and intelligent, I 'd
probably be interesting in combating larger social issues and not
biochemistry. But that's just me._

No. Most Black people don’t feel any more of a calling to “combat larger
social issues” than anyone else.

Yes, I worked at one company where I was the only Black person out of maybe
200 people until another one of my friends got hired based on my referral.
They constantly mixed up our names when talking to us.

We were on a conference call once and my friend “John” was talking and one of
our coworkers in another state mixed us up and said we “sound a like”. My
friend was from up north and had a Boston accent. I have a southern accent. We
sound nothing a like.

I am not saying that the company didn’t have any Black peoples because it was
racist. The company was based in another state that was about a two hour
drive. I would go there and not see any other Black people. We worked in a
satellite office.

I was also in the awkward position of being in the city of the main office
during Election Day 2016. As the only minority it seemed like in the entire
city where people were driving around in their pickup trucks with their
confederate flags and MAGA bumper stickers.

------
jmpman
I’ve been in the industry since the late 90’s, right before the H1B volumes
really spiked. I worked with a number of black people, and my hiring class
consisted of a number of black engineers from historically black colleges.
Fast forward 10 years, and cost savings forced a deep round of layoffs and
offshoring. The black engineers were hit disproportionately. The current
team’s makeup consists heavily of H1Bs. Those black engineers haven’t all
returned to STEM.

I’ve transitioned through many roles in my careers, and remained very
interested in this topic, so I notice the black makeup of each company. In St
Louis, a city with about 50% black population, I consulted on a few projects.
These companies employed a few African Americans, as security guards, but the
engineers were about 50% white and 50% Indian.

In Florida, I consulted on another project. Every black engineer had the
accent of a Caribbean native or African native. Judging by the accents, there
were no American born black engineers.

I keep wondering if the H1Bs have out competed the black new college
graduates, or if they’re simply not being given a chance at the jobs being
filled by H1Bs.

Other companies have huge Infosys, TCS consulting presence, and those new
engineering roles are filled without true competition from American workers,
but doled out to new H1Bs.

I continue to think that an additional yearly salary tax should be levied on
any H1B. This forces the employers to be financially aligned with employing US
citizens. Ideally those taxes should for for STEM scholarships for the poor,
increasing the US pool of these supposedly in demand engineers.

~~~
ReticentVole
Infosys is in court again for racist discrimination against non-Indian
applicants:

[https://www.deccanherald.com/business/business-
news/another-...](https://www.deccanherald.com/business/business-news/another-
race-discrimination-case-against-infosys-in-us-court-848921.html)

Black unemployment hit an all-time low this year:

[https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/irUjPx0BNBh...](https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/irUjPx0BNBh4/v1/-1x-1.png)

Which is partly thanks to tougher enforcement action against illegal
immigrants:

[https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/410/cpsprodpb/A67A/production/...](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/410/cpsprodpb/A67A/production/_108981624_optimised-
border4-nc.png)

If you want to help Americans, particularly Black Americans, the H1B visa
needs to be ended, the refugee intake reduced to <10,000/year, the wall built,
birth citizenship ended, and mass deportations of illegal immigrants to take
place across the USA.

------
lattalayta
This video from Neil deGrasse Tyson comes to mind. He describes his experience
growing up wanting to be a scientist and all of the resistance he received.
[https://rewire.news/videos/2014/05/01/neil-degrasse-tyson-
ra...](https://rewire.news/videos/2014/05/01/neil-degrasse-tyson-racism-
sexism-science-field/)

------
kpsychwave
At least 3 reasons: stereotype threat (related to race), financial aid and
socio-economic pragmatics.

Stereotype threat makes people less likely to engage in psychologically risky
feedback loops (bad grades, seeking feedback,...), and many higher STEM
courses are riskier in this regard.

Many students are forced to engage in work-study programs or work part-time to
get through college. STEM curricula (especially engineering) require
dedication and ample time.

Pragmatics, higher education is the most expedient path to escaping poverty
for the underserved. So pursuing more vocational fields like nursing,
professional stuff over a risky long career in academia seems more fruitful.

If my anecdote adds any value: I went to a somewhat rigorous college where
most of my STEM classes were mostly Asian or White and I was the usually the
only black student. I experienced the stressors mentioned above, the financial
one was especially painful.

12 years later, I wish I had chosen a less time consuming field like liberal
arts instead of CS/Eng and had a somewhat enjoyable experience.

One of my close Asian friends (with comparable ability) is now a Math
professor. His upper middle class background enabled him to pay for his
college, and living expenses in grad school. It’s inconceivable that I could
have taken a similar track given the reality constraints of my particular
situation.

------
badrabbit
They sure love that 13% figure. Why are so many nigerians in america so well
educated [1] ? Not doubting any other assertions but my theory is that
historically, STEM has not been a well reputed path to success,recognition and
respect for black americans both in their communities and nationally.
Segregation is only half a century ago,but even these days being STEM educated
and black is associated with negative stereotypes (although that is changing).
Another factor: STEM just isn't well famed/influential enough in american
society to where holding a STEM job would help the black community solve
significant social problems.

I hope you forgive me for the candor,but, at the home parenting level even in
early life, kids have to be raised to pursue such fields or at least see
others like them do well and succeed so they can draw inspiration. In other
words, an asian american(or nigerian!) person pursuing STEM would not feel
like they're swimming upstream and against the flow while america born black
americans and many rural european americans would feel that way.

I don't presume that's all there is to it, but plenty of immigrants with
terrible education spending in their 3rd world countries get full ride
scholarships in STEM in the US. I am certain, it's not something solvable by
throwing money at lower education. uni's in america are a cash grab scheme, so
you are asking people to get into a lifetime of debt right now. Instead of
depending on foreign workers, the US government on it's part should
conditionally subsidize higher education for americans with the condition
being they pursue in demand acadameic goals.

[1] [https://www.chron.com/news/article/Data-show-Nigerians-
the-m...](https://www.chron.com/news/article/Data-show-Nigerians-the-most-
educated-in-the-U-S-1600808.php)

~~~
ikeyany
Are these ideal Nigerians you're referring to from poor families? Or are their
parents upper-middle class?

~~~
badrabbit
I don't really know any nigerians and I haven't ready any research that breaks
this down by income.

------
deogeo
> Research has pointed out that students are more likely to regard teachers of
> the same race and ethnicity as role models, and due to proximity to them,
> put more effort into education and have higher college ambitions.

Is this claiming that students in homogeneous societies are at an advantage,
because they are more likely to share their teacher's ethnicity?

~~~
webmaven
There is some evidence for that being an important factor in the performance
of the highest ranked education systems.

Another perspective is that in a country with an ethnically homogeneous
population, it becomes politically easier to push through reforms.

------
nitwit005
Presumably for the same reason no one else is interested:
[https://www.govtech.com/education/k-12/New-Research-Shows-
De...](https://www.govtech.com/education/k-12/New-Research-Shows-Declining-
Interest-in-STEM.html)

------
cocktailpeanuts
People insinuate this is some sort of racism, but it actually has more to do
with the incentive.

People tend to be heavily influenced by their environment as they grow up. And
if the majority of your peers see X as being "cool", that's what a lot of
people will try to achieve.

For example, during high school years, the "popular kids" are the jocks who
play sports, not a geek who plays with code all day (although this has shifted
a lot lately). If you look at it this way, the guys who go on to play an the
NBA do it not because they are "underprivileged" and racially profiled to be
kicked out of studying, but because that IS the valuable route they want to
choose. Likewise, the current state of the music industry is heavily
influenced by black culture. You could say pretty much everything is black
culture influenced, from rap to r&b to Jazz to dance music. So a lot of black
kids look up to those artists and creative people, and they strive to excel in
those areas. I think that's great.

There's a reason why fighting arcade games and strategy games like Starcraft,
WoW, etc. are dominated by Korean pro gamers. Nobody said blacks shouldn't
play Starcraft or Tekken, nobody told white guys to stop playing. Koreans were
simply heavily socially incentivized to be good at it.

Same goes for football (soccer). Nobody said Brazilians are the only
privileged race on earth who are allowed to play football. They were just
heavily socially incentivized to do so because that's what's considered of
value.

Once you stop thinking as a victim and start thinking more positively, there
are many explanations to the "mystery" you just can't seem to figure out.

p.s.

Just to be clear, I am not denying that racism exists. I would however like to
point out that the people who keep blaming everything to racism are the ones
who are actually subliminally racists.

~~~
Impossible
In computer science, access to computers and being able to freely use, modify
and program them is critical. Many Black adults had no or limited computer
access as children. Even kids that did need to know that's it's possible to
create software , which might require an adult that knows it also, and
importantly be allowed to actually do so. Computers are expensive enough that
many Black families would keep kids from using them for fear of breaking them.
People do overcome this and go onto become software engineers or take other
jobs in tech, but common stories of Black people in tech include early
computer access, many had parents that are software engineers even. I fear
that the popularity of mobile means many more kids have a computing device,
but it's not readily available for programming. This is probably offset by a
bigger educational emphasis on learning how to code.

~~~
jazzyk
I disagree - many inner-city youths are into super-expensive sneakers ($300
and up), golden chains and other status symbols dictated by the social
environment they grow up in. Computers are just not cool enough. Yes, there
are exceptions, but the stereotype - unfortunately - mostly holds..

More money helps to a point, but what these young people need more than
anything is appropriate role models (engineers, scientists, etc). Yes, I know,
easier said than done...

~~~
tikititaki
Obviously, kids are all going to want to emulate their role models. Whether
the role models are Lance Armstrong or Lebron James, they will be influenced
in one direction or another because of that.

But there is a very real fact that certain peoples don't have access to
computers. My wife grew up in a poor area, and they did not have a computer in
their home until she was 16 when got a laptop as a gift.

I grew up poor, but as a foreigner with no real contact with others so I
stayed mostly at home. My father used to love buying old cheap computers at
garage sales, so I would mix and match hardware from the old computers and I
managed to learn a lot.

Both of us grew up poor, but I grew up to be a programmer because I had plenty
of access to computers while growing up. It was always natural to me, and it
was hard for her.

Neither of us idolized gold chains or expensive shoes. I think what you're
saying is a harmful and frankly, racist stereotype. Just because a family buys
a $200 pair of shoes for their child on Christmas, doesn't mean that means the
child shouldn't have access to computers. Rich families will give their kids
expensive things _as well_ as give access to computers.

------
phpdragon
This article says white people are underrepresented in earning science and
engineering bachelor degrees. Lol.

~~~
rootusrootus
The stats on black/white/Asian college achievement makes for an uncomfortable
discussion. It's okay to suggest that systemic racism is why black people
don't participate in college as much as you'd expect based on their prevalence
in society, but it's also okay to say that the reason Asians are over-
represented is because culturally they've made it a huge priority to attain as
much education as possible.

Maybe we should focus less on trying to identify and somehow solve systemic
racism and more about making it culturally acceptable and desirable for black
people to enter the STEM fields. Highlight the superstars in STEM who are
kicking ass (e.g. Neil deGrasse Tyson) and encouraging people to identify with
him and motivate them to work even harder.

~~~
deogeo
Would it also be okay to suggest Asians are over-represented because of
unearned Asian privilege?

What about suggesting whites are (hypothetically) over-represented because
they've made attaining education a priority?

Forgive me for noticing, but "one-sided" doesn't even begin to describe this
debate.

~~~
Ghjklov
>Would it also be okay to suggest Asians are over-represented because of
unearned Asian privilege?

That would be an incredibly stupid and unequivocally false thing to suggest
because the odds are actually stacked against Asians, and they must work
harder than most other people to achieve the same thing. Asians have earned
everything they've attained in this country. They deserve whatever success
they've gotten, and for that, they receive undeserved discrimination and
disrespect.

~~~
ThrowawayR2
> " _That would be an incredibly stupid and unequivocally false thing to
> suggest because the odds are actually stacked against Asians, and they must
> work harder than most other people to achieve the same thing._ "

As an Asian, I don't agree with that. Many Asians emigrated from Asia with
very little possessions and started their lives in Western countries in
conditions as bad or worse than the poorest native born, including a
significant language barrier and, yes, racism in their newly adopted
homelands. Yet, by and large, they have built successful lives.

I'd describe the statement as incredibly accurate and unequivocally true.

~~~
Ghjklov
I think you are misreading something. I am arguing against the suggestion that
Asians have unearned privilege which allowed them to become successful in
America.

~~~
ThrowawayR2
Ah, sorry. I did indeed misread your comment.

------
aparsons
Is it just me or is 13% of the population getting 9% of bachelors degrees -
and then the 9% going on to get 7% of PhDs not such an outrageous stat?

I thought the numbers were a lot more worrying.

------
blisterpeanuts
Why are there so few white people in pro basketball?

~~~
CyanLite2
Maybe because there were 300 years of systemic natural selection in this
country called "slavery" where black Americans were bought/sold and bred based
solely on their physical attributes?

~~~
nitwit005
The Jews must have transcendent superhuman athleticism then. Basketball used
to be dominated by immigrant Jews before World War 2.

~~~
Udik
Not sure about their athleticism, but it's true that they have been awarded
Nobel prizes between 5000% and 20000% of their population share (depending on
the discipline), and it's time to put an end to this blatant systemic racism.
/s

~~~
nitwit005
Much like the basketball dominance was caused by Jews playing the sport in
large numbers, the dominance of scientific prizes was largely a result of them
going into scientific fields in large numbers.

Any decent sized ethnic group could dominate a profession if they wanted to.

------
susiecambria
In "Raj Chetty: The Fading of the American Dream | Amanpour and Company"
([https://youtu.be/_rffAhR4mSs](https://youtu.be/_rffAhR4mSs)) (summary
below), Chetty makes the case that __doing what works __is essential. The
discussion ) ultimately turns to race and black boys in particular. Turns out
that black boys (versus white boys or black girls) need their father present.

What spoke to me the most was Chetty's statement that race always mattered no
matter income, education, family, neighborhood. Go to 18:15 to learn more.
Basically, while system and program improvements could result in lifting black
boys/men up the ladder, the system was pushing against them. This is a
profoundly difficult thing to labor against even in a systematic, data-
informed, policy- and practice-driven way. But the failure to take a piecemeal
approach may result in so few black people in STEM.

\---

Summary: Raj Chetty believes he may have found a way to reignite the American
Dream. Using “Big Data,” Chetty says we can offer equality of opportunity to
kids of disadvantaged backgrounds. The renowned Harvard Professor has received
plaudits for his work in harnessing data to propose solutions to economic
inequality. He sits down with Hari to explain his work.

------
fastball
Who is getting the rest of the undergrad science degrees if Asians, Blacks,
and Whites only account for 74% of them?

~~~
electricslpnsld
Possibly Native Americans/First Peoples, Pacific Islanders, or individuals who
self-identify by ethnicity rather than race on these types of reports.

~~~
crooked-v
Also people of Indian descent, for whom it can sometimes be pretty annoying to
get dumped into the 'Asian' bucket.

~~~
OJFord
That was my first thought. Probably (maybe wrong, just IME) most 'people from
the Western portion of continental Asia' don't see themselves (I suppose we
say 'self-identify' now) as 'Asian'.

Similarly to we Britons speaking of 'Europe' and particularly 'Europeans' with
the 'continental' implied - and even that phrase not really making sense, not
meaning the same as 'mainland'!

------
linguae
Note: I'm an African-American man who works in Silicon Valley as a researcher
in an AI lab.

I believe there are a number of reasons why there are so few African-Americans
in STEM.

1\. Many of us grew up in low-income households that don't have the same
amount of resources to devote to education that higher-income households do.
Many of us also grew up in households where the parents don't have college
degrees. Roughly 70% of African-Americans are born to unmarried parents, and
many African-Americans live in single-parent homes; being a single parent is
very challenging. Many low-income housing areas are unfortunately crime-
ridden. It takes a lot of determination for parents to raise their children
under such circumstances.

2\. Having a successful STEM career means being able to master technical
subjects that require a considerable amount of time and focus to study, such
as mathematics. Consider the type of mathematics and science preparation
needed to enter a top-tier undergraduate STEM program. Now compare that to the
education opportunities that are available at most American high schools,
especially those located in the low-income neighborhoods that many African-
American high schoolers attend. Without the influence of a really good teacher
or mentor, or without the influence of a parent who has earned a college
degree, how would a student learn the study skills that are necessary for
obtaining a STEM degree? I'll give a personal anecdote: despite my perfect
high school GPA (4.0 unweighted), my history of being in gifted programs, and
having taken seven community college courses (including three computer science
courses), the transition to attending Cal Poly San Luis Obispo as a computer
science major was a rough one for me because I didn't know how to study for
rigorous university-level STEM courses. I basically skated through my entire
pre-university experiences; I didn't know what it was like to actually have to
sit down and truly study something that I wasn't already passionate about (I
was able to teach myself programming and Japanese, but I found it difficult
going through my physics textbooks). Despite this, I stuck with it at Cal Poly
and ended up eking out a 3.0 GPA, which was just enough for me to enter a PhD
program, though not my dream school of Carnegie Mellon. Unfortunately I knew
of many students who either dropped out or switched to less demanding majors.

3\. So, despite the odds, you end up with a freshly-minted STEM degree and
it's time to take on the world! Well, the challenges aren't over yet. Imagine
being the first in your family to have a white-collar job, as was the case
with me. Who is going to give you advice about how corporate America works and
how to succeed under that environment? Imagine being the only black person in
your office, or sometimes at the company? Thankfully I grew up with a lot of
immersion in various cultures and so I'm comfortable with being the only black
person around, but that doesn't always mean that the people I work with are
comfortable around me. I personally haven't experienced discrimination at the
workplace, but I know other people who have. There are also non-work stresses;
there's taking care of other family members, there's dealing with the police,
there's dealing with dating, which I've found difficult in Silicon Valley.
These challenges could mount up and have people think of alternatives.

I believe that any solution to addressing the shortage of black people in STEM
will involve addressing all three issues above. Starting from #3 and working
my way up to #1:

\- We need to retain the black professionals in STEM that we already have by
providing mentorship opportunities that will help us navigate our careers and
our personal lives.

\- For university students, we need to teach them how to study STEM and what
it means to truly master a topic. Mastery of the foundations is important for
research and developing technologies.

\- Our high schools need to be more rigorous. By the time a high school
student graduates, the student should know how to study at the college level,
and the student should be able to be competent in a wide field of subjects,
not only STEM, but also English, history, economics, government, and a foreign
language. Middle school and elementary school should also be made more
rigorous in order to prepare students for high school. Ideally the level of
competence of a high school graduate should be equivalent to an associate's
degree. Alan Kay once quoted an English woman who said, "[y]ou Americans have
the best high school education in the world -- what a pity you have to go to
college to get it!"

\- Finally, we need to address the social problems mentioned in #1, though
unfortunately I don't have specific solutions regarding these problems.

~~~
whb07
Interestingly, you should read up on Thomas Sowell's work and books. There are
also plenty of videos on Youtube where you can get some distillation of his
work.

Here are some of his "controversial" views:

1\. Reduce the incentive to destroy the family unit by providing large
benefits to single parents

2\. School choice

For the first one, even the leftist economists don't dispute the distortions
caused by these transfers. As for point 2, they'll always shriek about things
even though it makes sense to tie the child to the money and not the money to
the school. Parents will always suss out the better option and will send their
child to a better school.

------
benbenolson
Because sometimes some people choose not to go into STEM. It's an individual's
choice.

------
ilaksh
It seems like since he wasn't really clearly specifying a region, I should be
a little suspicious of the premise. I mean, if you go to a country with mostly
black people in good economic standing and find a major university, it seems
unlikely that generalization would hold.

------
nimbius
I could venture a guess, and its probably why i'll never go from my current
job as a diesel mechanic to junior python programmer no matter how badly i
want to:

criminal record.

in the US you can discriminate against employees who have any sort of criminal
record. I've served jailtime for possession of cannabis, so that automatically
rules me out for a lot of white-collar jobs. Black people tend to get the
brunt of policing, and hold disproportionately high rates of misdemeanor and
felony charges and longer sentences. I got 3 years for my conviction, but i
know a black machinist who served 8 and a parole for an almost identical
charge.

We call them "correctional facilities" but continue to discriminate in housing
and employment for anyone who's been 'corrected' in one...sort of a standing
biblical retribution.

~~~
DamnYuppie
So your premise is all Black people have criminal records and that is why they
aren't in STEM?

~~~
scarface74
No, but there are plenty of statistics showing that every step of the criminal
justice system is biased against minorities from stop and frisk , to traffic
stops, to tickets vs warnings, to the “War on Drugs”.

------
rayhendricks
If you come from a demographic making the lowest amount of money e.g. 41k/yr
per the article would it not make sense to do a career with a more immediate
reward? PhD is for people with trust funds who can afford to take a 50-60k
postdoctoral position in a vhcol city due to a trust fund paying out at least
50-60k per year.

~~~
fastball
I know dozens of PhDs.

Literally not a single one of them has a trust fund.

I know probably about a dozen people with trust funds. None of them got
anything past a Masters (but most did actually go for the masters).

Obviously this is anecdotal, but in my experience your assertion is not true.
If you have stats to back it up though I'd be happy to see them.

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CyanLite2
Occam's Razor says that they aren't a lot of black people in STEM positions
because companies aren't hiring black people in STEM positions. There are
plenty of black candidates applying to FAANG companies only to be rejected
because "they don't fit in with the culture" or they "weren't Google-y
enough", or "they couldn't write a depth-first-search algorithm in less than 2
seconds in front of a whiteboard ("white board" pun fully intended) so they
must not be smart." Over enough time, those parents go on to have kids who
then encourage those kids to go elsewhere and invest their study time in other
areas where they know they can be successful.

~~~
joyj2nd
I disagree. Most companies are actually trying to INCREASE diversity, be it
based on skin colour or gender. So it may actually be much EASIER to get
accepted in this companies if you are black.

I know in some STEM fields (not all in STEM is CS), you have MUCH MUCH higher
chances to land a good job at a big company if you are female. But being
female in medicine or law buys you nothing since there is no imbalance.

~~~
DeonPenny
Yeh you'd think that but if the interviewer doesn't like you doesn't even
matter. When I graduated a few years ago I made a spreadsheet to see why. The
strongest predictor wasn't how well I think I did out of 10, or hours of prep
I did before hand. There were certain people regardless of what I need gave me
100% rejection. I'm not saying it was prejudice, but it was a very clear
pattern.

~~~
joyj2nd
Dude, nobody is worse in getting a job than me. But let me tell you a few
things:

1\. Mostly it is how much people like you and how much they share with you.

2\. 1st class people hire 1st class people, 2nd class people hire 3rd class
people

3\. Being rejected tells nothing about you. The guy they hired tells a lot
about the company.

