
Coping with Cats - luu
https://acesounderglass.com/2020/09/02/coping-with-cats/
======
grawprog
It's an alright list, but that's some beginner level stuff. Where's things
like

-cat is obssessed with plastic bags whenever he wants attention and ends up wearing them like a cape trailing it through the house causing havoc.

-cat likes to knock over your breakable things just cause it likes to see them smash

-wake up at 2 in the morning to some weird noises only to find the cat spiderman-ing up the screen on the window because some rats or something were outside

-on the note of two in the morning, that's of course the cats favourite time to run around the house meowing on the top of his lungs, just because.

-if you have a cat and get a puppy, get ready for that puppy to start walking on window sills, the back of the couch, and even up on the coffee table even if it's over 50lbs and clumsy as hell, cause the cat does it.

-Oh, you were 5 minutes late feeding the cat, well have fun with non stop fucking around for the rest of the day or night

-made some steak, fish, chicken, even salad...and turned your back for a second, well that cat's gonna be all up in that, as a bonus, maybe he'll knock it onto the ground so him and the dogs can feast.

But despite all this...and more, still love the furry little bastard.

~~~
aahortwwy
Almost all of these sorts of behavioural issues (with the exception of the
food-motivated ones) tend to disappear when you allow your cat the freedom to
go outside whenever it wants. They're not well suited to confinement and it
always shows in their behavior. Sometimes they just get depressed and mopey,
which a lot of people interpret as their cat "not minding" its confinement.
Other times they try to relieve the soul-crushing boredom of their lives by
knocking things over, yelling, or actively messing with you. Sure, you can
"train" your cat not to engage in these behaviors (as other commenters note,
however, they're smart enough to realize you're not always watching them) or
you could just allow them access to the far more compelling activities that
exist outdoors. They'll even choose to do mundane stuff (lie in the sun, poop)
outdoors nine times out of ten. They just prefer being out.

Reading some of the things people in this thread do to their cats made me sad,
especially the people talking about techniques for preventing their cats from
getting out the front door.[0] If you would never treat a human the way you
treat your cat on a regular basis, that should give you pause. If it's "for
their own good" you made a selfish choice in pet ownership.

[0] An airlock system where the cat is required to sit perfectly still before
you open the door? Don't they do similar stuff in actual prisons?

~~~
leetcrew
the indoor vs outdoor debate wrt cats is a timeless one, but I don't think the
answer is so clear cut as you make it seem. in principle, I would like for our
family cat to have free rein of the outdoors, but we don't quite feel it is
safe for him. in addition to the local predators that actually have to work
for a living, my parents live right next to a six-lane death road in the city.
the speed limit is 30 mph, but people routinely drive in excess of 60 mph on
the downhill side. I'm confident the cat can avoid vehicles moving at a
reasonable speed, but that road is unsafe for _humans_ , let alone cats.

there's also the issue of housecats killing a staggering number of birds each
year. tbh, this is not really a factor that weighs heavily on our decision,
but it's something to think about.

finally, many cats are rescues for whom living freely outdoors was never an
option. imo, it's better to be an indoor cat in a loving home than a dead cat.

~~~
aahortwwy
It's completely clear cut before you're responsible for the animal: don't
bring a pet into an unsuitable living situation. This is why the safety and
environmental arguments ring hollow for me - nobody forces you to get a cat.

~~~
uxenthusiast
I completely agree. It always breaks my heart to see locked up animals, be it
a cat not allowed to go outside, a dog confined in an appartement with only
one outing a day in the urban concrete or a bear in a cage in a zoo. Makes no
difference to me.

I firmly believe animal rights movements should discourage pet owning but it's
often the other way around, at least from where i'm from.

~~~
hombre_fatal
Discouraging pet ownership, while I agree with it, would put you into an
extremely fringe category akin to advocating veganism. The world just isn't
ready for that level of compassion for animals. We still live in cultures
where five minutes of pleasure for our taste buds trumps all ethical concerns.

It's extremely socially acceptable to get two dogs in your tiny apartment and
keep them in kennels while you're at work for 9 hours, and again for 9 hours
overnight. People will even come out of the woodwork to convince you that the
dogs actually prefer that.

I also think we need to dial back breeding. Breeders just dump unwanted
animals into street/pound circulation while breeding the most gimped animals
(purebreds) out there, the last thing we need.

~~~
aahortwwy
I don't discourage pet ownership, in fact I think it's an extremely positive
thing for many reasons. I do encourage making responsible choices when it
comes to pet selection.

------
dmart
I appreciated the recommendations, but from a tech perspective related most
with this sentence in the opening paragraph: "when I tried to research
mitigations for any of these it was 100% SEO listicles".

I've found this to be true as well. Searching for impressions/reviews on
literally any type of product is impossible now - the entire first page of
results are just spammy sites either regurgitating PR for a specific product
or paraphrasing Amazon reviews. In order to get real human opinions on
anything, you have to suffix your search with "reddit".

All of these sites are clearly bogus and should be banned. How did search
become so broken?

~~~
underwater
I don't think the type of content you're looking for even exists any more.

Even if someone has the desire to create a high quality, old-school, interest-
based site, they're going to be dealing with the fact that Google won't
surface the content because SEO magic, there is no community of similar sites
who will link to them, and their content doesn't fit the format preferred by
social media.

I think the web has firmly shifted to being about commercial entities having a
way of plugging content into Google. The initial premise, a web of carefully
curated links between long-lived documents, is dead. And the people who would
have created websites if they grew up in the 90s and early 2000s have moved
onto other formats.

~~~
novok
Sadly you have to go to youtube outside of a few dedicated niche review sites
like cnet / rtings / the wirecutter. Or forums.

~~~
beervirus
Consumer Reports is still a thing. I’m happy to pay them a subscription fee
for the content they create.

------
munificent

        The Dryer
    
        Turns out dryers are reasonably good at removing cat hair
        if you wait long enough. Remember to clean the lint trap 
        frequently.
    

Brilliant idea. How long should I leave the cat in?

------
jakear
I’ve always had my cats as outdoor/indoor animals, with no litterbox at all
(Except when they’re very young). Never noticed any problems with smell, as
cats are naturally clean animals and do a good job of simply finding a place
to use the bathroom outside.

I joke that indoor cats are like children (with all the maintenance that
entails..), whereas outdoor cats are like delinquent friends that randomly
show up to eat your food and crash on your couch. Both have their pros and
cons!

~~~
munificent
Unfortunately, outdoor cats are devastating to local wildlife.

[https://daily.jstor.org/environmental-danger-outdoor-
cats/](https://daily.jstor.org/environmental-danger-outdoor-cats/)

~~~
jakear
Study says the bulk of this is feral cats, who must kill to survive, as
opposed to indoor/outdoor cats, who don’t.

~~~
munificent
Still ~31% of the deaths are from owned cats, which is something like a
billion birds and is entirely needless killing.

------
notmars
I don’t know much about LitterRobor, but I must say, as an expert in cats
(yup, don’t ask), that if you have the money and the room (best place is in
the laundry room or next to your washing machine): CatGenie is the way to
go...([https://www.catgenie.com/](https://www.catgenie.com/))

I’m not affiliated or involved in any way, it’s just an amazing product, from
what looks like a great company, that has not-as-good SEO skills and (I would
guess) is enjoying success enough that they dont need to be so agressive.

In any case, it’s a cat-owning disruptive item if you make it work for your
cat: as any robot litter, it takes some training.

I litteraly don’t change the litter ever. I add more of their recycled
washable granules once a year and, around every 4 months, one box of the
product that washes them.

It wasn’t talked in any of the threads, so I couldn’t resist sharing.

Maybe our household and cats are an exception and lots of other people had a
lot of problem with it. Or maybe people just don’t know how amazing this thing
is :-)

I’m rooting for the latter.

In our home, it clearly succeed in wiping what the article start with as the
big ticket item: the smell.

For the rest of the blog post, I do believe there’s solution but they all
depends on the cat :-)

We have more problem with the air of our small dog, than with our persian-
hairy cat...(and thanks robot vacuum cleaners!)

~~~
birdyrooster
Doesn't this have the same problem as City Kitty where toxoplasma gondii
infiltrates water supplies since treatment plants cannot neutralize it? This
particular virus is known to be harmful to marine life and other mammals.

~~~
notmars
You can plug the ‘waste water outlet’ where you see fit. We use our washer’s,
which in our city, is the waste water system, thats goes into the waste water
recycling plant which doesnt mix with the ‘clean water’ cycle. In any case, it
is WAY more filtering that if we were using classical litter granule that
would be then send to a landfill where those same bacterias and viruses would
fest and infiltrate the soil.

It is an interesting debate to have though. It probably depends how your waste
water is processed.

------
r00fus
Regarding the litter and smell - being a relatively new cat owner I did a lot
of reading and I came to 2 conclusions (note: I only have one cat, and she's <
1 yo):

1) Litter needs scooping every day. Otherwise cat will rightfully be upset and
do poop in the wrong place just to let you know. Recommended to have N+1
litters for the N cats, but small apartment = difficult to place/clean all of
them.

2) According to many cat books (notably Jackson Galaxy) litters are a prime
scent-soaker and major signpost that lets cat mark their territory. So venting
them outside may cause other confidence issues.

Could the smell issue be resolved by simply scooping regularly?

~~~
stevewodil
I don't really understand smell complaints with litter. I have a cat that has
VERY stinky poops and the litter box is in my bedroom (it's in a closet area
that I removed the door from).

If he poops then I remove it immediately. Otherwise I collect any urine
deposits at night before I go to bed.

Obviously the poop itself smells but I've never had a problem with litter
smell and don't understand what people are doing wrong. Surely they just
aren't cleaning the litter box enough.

~~~
munificent
People vary widely in their sensitivity to particular smells.

My kids made a "compost jar" for a school project a few years ago. They took
some soil, a bunch of rotting food waste, and earthworms and put it all in a
jar. At some point, the jar was accidentally got left too close to a window
and the worms got crisped and died. It took several days for us to notice. I
threw that rotting dark concoction out in the garden.

Unbeknownst to me, the dog got out and—like dogs do—decided to gulp that whole
pungent witch's brew down. It became very beknownst to me about ten minutes
later when she threw the whole thing up on the brand new rug. We're talking a
large puddle of hot garbage, rotting earthworms, dogfood, and bile. It was
_vile_. The smell was heart-stopping. I have never cleaned up a mess so fast
in my life.

Even so, cat poop is worse for me. It will make me gag instantly. Something
about the fishy meatiness of it turns my stomach.

------
Waterluvian
One trick changed my life:

Get two large tupperware containers. One that fits the litter box. Other for
food and water. Cut a hole in them, cat sized, about two inches above the
bottom so there’s a lip. I found a jigsaw worked best.

You can then stack these and move them freely and put stuff on them. But they
do a glorious job containing litter and food that wants to follow the cats
out.

------
RankingMember
Something about the tone of this article rubs me the wrong way and makes the
owner appear to see his cats as being solely for his own pleasure rather than
for the mutual pleasure of being companions in each others' lives. One
example:

> [The furminator] was absolutely amazing at removing fur from the cats (on
> areas broad and unbony enough to support the comb), and they liked it, but
> it left them less soft. I did not get these cats to have them at less than
> their maximum softness.

~~~
kingosticks
Was it not just a bit of a joke? I enjoyed it and it made my partner laugh (I
think that's a first for a HN post).

And we didn't know about those grooming gloves, they look great.

~~~
uoaei
I've lived with folks who would unironically say "I bought you so you would
love me!!!" while pinning the cat down to pet it, while the cat was under
obvious duress.

There is definitely a non-negligible fraction of pet owners who do not
empathize whatsoever with their pets, treating them instead as playthings for
their own amusement.

~~~
kingosticks
Indeed. There are terrible owners out there and animal welfare organisations
sadly exist for good reason.

I personally have zero belief that's the case here.

------
gnulinux
I'm a cat owner and never had a problem with smell. No one coming into my
house mentioned anything about smell. I circulate air in my house every day
and clean the litterbox ever day. I'm not sure why cats would cause any smell.

And to add to this: yes I think cat ownership is very worth it. It's basically
an on-demand pleasure source that you can use as long as you want, whenever
you want. Just curl up into the soft kitty and feel him purring, awesome!

~~~
interrupt_
_> I circulate air in my house every day_

Might be hard to do that in really cold weather. I live in a place that's very
warm and the windows are always open, so I can't relate.

~~~
r00fus
Two box fans + windows (ie, apartment) or a whole house fan in a larger house
can circulate air quickly in 15m.

I find useful to do that even in winter (maybe not in North Dakota winter).

------
powersnail
My experience of coping with cats:

\- Place the litter box in an accessible place

\- Scoop frequently

\- Set up routines with the cat

\- Plenty of toys, and sometimes play YouTube for cat

\- At least one thing that can be climbed

~~~
coldpie
> Plenty of toys, and sometimes play YouTube for cat

Since I started WFH, one of my cats has taken to sitting on my desk and
batting at my mouse cursor. Never had a cat do that before.

~~~
AnimalMuppet
When my cat is on my desk, I pick her up and put her on my lap. (Getting paid
to work while a cat is on your lap? _Sweeeeeet_.) Of course, she doesn't stay.
She climbs back onto the desk. So I put her on my lap again. After about three
times, she either stays (yay!) or climbs down onto the floor (bummer, but at
least I can work).

------
cameronh90
Regarding smell, consider trying a raw meat diet. I use Purrform (UK) but
there are similar in other countries.

I was a sceptic, but since converting to raw meat diet, there is almost no
poop smell except when I feed too many treats. Living in a small London flat,
this has been a game changer.

Obviously there are risks with raw meat diets and they aren't the cheapest. Do
your research, understand the potential issues, choose a quality vendor, make
sure you keep up to date with parasite treatment. All that being said, my cat
seems to enjoy the food more than any other high quality food I've tried, and
is as fit and healthy as he's ever been.

~~~
DonHopkins
That's called a BARF diet: BARF – Biologically Appropriate Raw Food

[https://www.zooplus.co.uk/magazine/cat/cat-nutrition/barf-
ca...](https://www.zooplus.co.uk/magazine/cat/cat-nutrition/barf-cat-food)

>What is BARF?

>The term 'BARF' describes so-called 'biologically appropriate raw food'. This
feeding method is appropriate for the key reason that cats are carnivorous by
nature. Raw food gives them just that – lots of fresh meat. In contrast to
cooking your own cat food, BARF portions are given out raw and are not cooked
or seared beforehand. However, this has also led to criticism of raw food,
which is mostly unhealthy for humans and can lead to stomach upsets and
intolerances. Does the same not also apply for cats?

------
mcguire
" _I did not get these cats to have them at less than their maximum softness._
"

Excellent tip: always know what a win looks like.

------
WhompingWindows
We never have any problems with waste smell for our cat. Dr. Elsey's litter
and a scooping out each morning is all it takes for us. We use a litter genie,
this is key because it air-tightly stores the nuggets, which a regular garbage
bin won't do. There's really no smell unless the little bugger leaves his
nuggets without ANY sort of burial. Even then, it's a mild smell, I mask up,
no problemo.

------
happytoexplain
I sympathize with the Litter Robot experience. It's _painfully close_ to being
perfect if you can invest in its price and physical size. Relatively speaking,
it works far better than perhaps any other complex automated mechanical
consumer product I've ever used, but that's a low bar. It gets stuck mid-cycle
randomly, so you have to remember to give it a look a couple times a day, and
you still may not catch it before your cat decides to take matters into their
own hands. Because this is the only major problem, I was highly motivated to
try every suggestion out there in fixing it, but nothing worked. It's truly a
shame.

------
gfaure
Two data points: our cat's poop doesn't smell bad at all when she's eaten
homemade food, while if we feed her canned food or dry food, it smells
stereotypically bad.

Also, cats don't necessarily knock things over just because they don't have
access to the outdoors. Our indoor cat is very careful and has never knocked
anything over intentionally in her life.

------
lostmsu
I have the previous generation of the litter robot for 6+ years now, and the
only problem I ever had with it is that on uneven surface it might be tricky
to readjust the sensor, which you have to do once in a few months.

Apart from that all my dealing with cat poop is once per week: 1) pull the
robot tray, 2) replace the bag, 3) run a cycle ones to ensure sensor works
properly.

~~~
gwern
Yes, I have the previous generation too (the one that looks like a globe
mounted on top of a donut), and 'getting stuck' is something that has not
happened in 6 years of ownership.

The only issue I have had with it is that the weight sensor gradually drifted
and became miscalibrated, so my cat no longer triggered the timer when
stepping on it; it turned out the pressure sensor is adjusted by a washer on a
screw, and it had come a little too lose (=too heavy requirement).

------
winrid
One thing that helped my allergies a lot was getting a robot vacuum that
cleans up the hair a few times a week. I'm definitely not taking the time to
vacuum the whole place three times a week so it's awesome (bobsweep pethair
vision)

Also, I noticed that I get used to a new cat after about 6-12 months which is
pretty interesting.

------
wizzard
Some great thoughts here, but I just wanted to clarify that Chewy.com does
warn you via email several days before autoships happen. (I've been using
autoship for close to a year now.)

------
sdflhasjd
Of all the problems I've had owning a cat, the location of the litterbox has
been the biggest difficulty for me - without the space of a dedicated small
closet, it seems to be unsolvable

~~~
novok
A project I've had in the back of my mind is to make a little outdoor
contained porch area for it. That way it always gets vented. It would be a bit
of an expensive project although.

------
beervirus
Sucks that she had problems with the Litter Robot. I love mine, and it's only
malfunctioned once in the last several years. And for the fur, just get a
Roomba.

~~~
dqv
How frequently do you clean yours? Not empty the litter or change the tray,
but actually clean the inside?

~~~
beervirus
Not at all often. Once every year or two? For whatever it's worth, I have one
of the older models.

------
IncRnd
You can always teach your cat to poop in a toilet. This doesn't take much
effort to teach them. Remember to leave the toilet seat cover _up_ for them.

~~~
r00fus
Please don't do this [1]. Also washing your cats regularly is inadvisable as
well unless they have some medical issue (obesity, etc).

In short, they're not humans, if you treat them like one you may get unwanted
results.

[1] [https://www.thedodo.com/should-cat-use-
toilet-2079157362.htm...](https://www.thedodo.com/should-cat-use-
toilet-2079157362.html)

~~~
IncRnd
Why not? Because an Internet article said it might, possibly be a bad idea? I
never said cats were human. I don't wash my cat. We don't shower together.
What makes you think I wrote any of that?

None of the items listed in that article have happened in my experience to an
actual real-world cat that I have seen. The article is full of suppositions.
There are no _actual facts_ listed.

The first thing that I noticed in that article were all the pictures of toilet
paper that cats had ripped off of the toilet roll. All one has to do is turn
the roll in the other direction, and cats no longer do that. But, the writer
seemed less interested in information than in filling words for a story.

~~~
coryrc
Cat parasites are not removed by sewage systems and hurt fish. Do not flush.

[https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/08/19/flush-cat-poop-
dont-d...](https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/08/19/flush-cat-poop-dont-do-it/)

[https://www.kingcounty.gov/~/media/depts/dnrp/solid-
waste/ec...](https://www.kingcounty.gov/~/media/depts/dnrp/solid-
waste/ecoconsumer/documents/SeattleTimes_2015-04-04.ashx?la=en)

[http://www.seattle.gov/utilities/your-services/collection-
an...](http://www.seattle.gov/utilities/your-services/collection-and-
disposal/where-does-it-go#/item/cat-poop)

[https://keepingitpawsome.com/never-flush-cat-
poop/](https://keepingitpawsome.com/never-flush-cat-poop/)

~~~
IncRnd
Those are links to Dear Joan columns and the Seattle PU that don't apply to my
septic system that is large enough and capable of handling this. Water from my
toilets goes through a home recycling system. Pregnant women who drink water
at my house are not susceptible to toxoplasmosis.

 _People didn 't invent cats,_ who have been self-burying their feces for a
long time. Seattle and the municipalities in your links may not be configured
to handle cats, but people have known how to compost cat feces for a long time
without withering the vegetables and poisoning pregnant women.

~~~
lovehashbrowns
I'll add an additional link as context:

Transmission of Toxoplasma: Clues from the study of sea otters as sentinels of
Toxoplasma gondii flow into the marine environment.

[https://www.marinemammalcenter.org/assets/pdfs/vetsci-
strand...](https://www.marinemammalcenter.org/assets/pdfs/vetsci-
stranding/scientific-contributions/2005/conrad-2005.pdf) [PDF]

I did not know this as a potential risk of flushing cat feces in the toilet.
But it also seems that cats defecating outside is likely a more significant
contributor to Toxoplasmosis in wildlife.

------
deschutes
The authority on coping with cats:
[https://youtu.be/mHXBL6bzAR4](https://youtu.be/mHXBL6bzAR4)

------
totetsu
This whole article of cat products really drives home for me how wide a gap
there is between classes..

------
Sulamitachica
Thanks for sharing! Being a cat owner sure is hard - but so worth it when they
snuggle up next to ya!

------
29athrowaway
Other interesting products:

\- Self-grooming arch

\- Cat scent remover

\- Scratching post

\- Nail covers

------
BTCOG
Why did this at all belong on HackerNews?

------
hyko
Wish I’d been able to mitigate the content on this page whilst fully embracing
the joy that visiting the URL brought me.

