

Ask HN: Would you sign a "mini-contract" upon giving notice? - latch

I just gave notice. HR has asked me to sign a 2 page statement. It's a lot of legal speak, about confidentiality and returning any company material and other bland things which I'm fine with<p>However, there's also things in here that I'm not in love with, like not criticizing the company <i>ever</i> to <i>anyone</i> and some pretty broad proprietary information stuff.<p>Why should I sign this? It seems pretty silly to bind myself to anything when there's no benefit to me.
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patio11
A gentleman's agreement that I remain a professional is free.

If you want me to sign anything contractual, I require consideration. That's
how the game works. (Paperwork from HR drones verifying confidentiality
agreements remain active and that my laptop is returned are free.)

If you're not a really assertive person, "Let me talk to my lawyer and get
back to you." works frequently.

They may try to exert social pressure to get you to sign. I encourage use of
the line "We're all businessmen here. If this is that important to you, we can
find a price which will make us mutually happy." You are under zero moral
obligation to comport all future business dealings to the whims of someone who
once paid you money.

There's a Chris Rock line. When you're in a restaurant, you pay them money and
they give you food. Once you leave the restaurant, you don't get to say
"Where's my steak?!" If they aren't cutting you a paycheck any more, they
don't get steak.

~~~
JoachimSchipper
As I understand it, it's a bit worse than "if you want me to sign anything
contractual, I require consideration" - if they want you to sign a contract,
the _law_ requires that it contains something you want ("consideration") for
the contract to be considered binding.

~~~
latch
Thanks, very useful. Looks like this is a basic requirement of common law
contracts:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consideration>

I don't plan on signing it, I was just curious what people thought (and so far
no one has said I should)

~~~
praptak
Hey, let us know how it went, especially if they make any idiotic claims in
order to persuade you to sign.

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hcho
Well, what are they going to do if you don't sign it? Fire you? Tell them, you
won't, keep a copy of the mini-contract and signal that you are ready to
lawyer up, if need be. In case they give you a bad reference for not signing,
you can take them to court with this.

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joelhaasnoot
Something tells me they should have put that in your initial employment
contract under the heading "Termination of contract"

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epc
A confidentiality agreement is one thing and is acceptable.

One of the worst mistakes I ever made was to sign an agreement (on resigning
from a company) saying I would never criticize the company or its officers.
It’s amazing what lawyers can do to make pretty much anything you say about
such a company “criticism.”

To this day all I can say is that I worked at the company, not that I
resigned, not why I resigned, not what I learned. It has lead to some
extremely uncomfortably situations with potential employers and investors even
many years later.

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kragen
It's not unusual to sign a broad non-disparagement agreement in exchange for a
substantial amount of severance money that isn't in any existing contract. (In
the US, for example, most employees are "at-will" and are not owed any
severance pay, whether they quit or are fired, with or without cause.) It _is_
unusual to sign a broad non-disparagement agreement gratuitously.

My guess is that somebody in HR figured they could probably get something very
valuable out of you for free, just by asking for it.

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bradfa
Usually at my company, if there's a layoff, anyone laid off is offered a
contract saying similar things to what yours says. The catch is that if the
employee does not sign, they don't get their severance pay or benefits which
can be sizable. Everyone is allowed to sign or not sign but the contracts are
2 way streets (both sides get something). I've never heard of a contract being
offered to those who are voluntarily quitting a job where they were an "at
will" employee.

~~~
gte910h
I've only signed these in the past for reasonable severance pay.

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staunch
Hell no. That's all risk and no reward for you. If they want to pay you a nice
chunk of money + legal fees to have it reviewed then why not?

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iuguy
Why would you need to sign this? How can they enforce a requirement to sign
something when you're leaving? This doesn't make sense.

I wouldn't sign it unless I was either obliged to or there was some massive
benefit that outweighed the drawbacks.

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flarg
My take is that you should just ignore their request; you're obviously
required to return equipment and confidential items when leaving any employ,
so you don't need to sign a contract for that - it's dumb for them to ask. The
other requests are stupid and pointless - so don't get into it with them.

HR departments are almost always useless SOBs; hell, if they were any good
they would figured out how to stop you from leaving in the first place...

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crdoconnor
You should sign it if, and only if there is extra money in it for you.

If there isn't and they're not prepared to give you any, then tell them you'll
agree to the vast majority of the terms in principle but won't be signing on
any dotted line.

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rmc
You're leaving, why do you have to sign it? Your old employment contract and
existing law might cover it. Best to check what you've already agreed to. If
you don't sign it, what are they going to do? Prevent you from leaving? Ha!

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demallien
Well, I would certainly indicate to them that you don't see any point in
signing - you already have a contract with them! It's up to them to convince
you that signing is in your interest as much as it is in their interest.

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wccrawford
Absolutely not. You should never sign such a 1-sided contract. It can only
hurt you.

Besides which, most of those things are covered by the law, anyhow, and the
ones that aren't are questionably legal.

IANAL

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kanzenryu
Just for laughs ask them how much money it's worth to them. Then don't sign
it.

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roblobue
As far as I know employee protection law, at least in the UK, doesn't like
these post-contractual obligations. I would ask a lawyer specialising in
employment law for confirmation but it is my understanding that you are under
no obligation whatsoever to sign this and should they ever do anything that
detriments future employment you would have grounds to sue.

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gte910h
Are they giving you a lot of money to sign it?

Then no, don't.

If they'll pay you 2k per month you worked at the company or something like
that, then say "I'll ask my lawyer".

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petercooper
Take a leaf out of Derek Sivers book on this. Would not signing it cause you
to end up in jail, get a fine, or suffer a loss? If not, no need to bother
with it for now.

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nodata
If you need something from the company you'll probably have to sign it.
Otherwise, there's no reason to.

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damoncali
That's pretty typical language. However, you're right. Unless they give you
something in return, there's no point in signing it. I've always seen these
agreements attached to some sort of severance payment.

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davethewave
Cross out everything add a bunch of stuff then sign it

