
Review: Japanese Hologram Pop Star Hatsune Miku Tours North America - Terretta
http://arstechnica.com/the-multiverse/2016/04/waving-glow-sticks-at-hologram-anime-pop-stars-our-night-with-hatsune-miku/
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greggman
It's a little disappointing they didn't bring up the fact that Hatsune Miku's
songs are created by the fans. Anyone who wants to make a song just buys the
software makes a song and posts it to Youtube or NicoNicoDouga and if it takes
off it becomes part of her hit list

~~~
wodenokoto
When I saw the headline, I thought to myself "the most amazing thing about her
is that she is still around" I think this explains it a lot.

That is really cool.

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jacobwcarlson
The absence of Idoru[1] references is surprising. Almost as surprising as
learning that book is 20 years old. I may need to re-read it.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idoru](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idoru)

~~~
kpil
I was just about to write that. Was there anything like take existing at that
time or did he project the trends and adding a good dose of Japanese pop
culture weirdness, completely on his own?

~~~
nopzor
Idoru is also the first thing I thought of when I read the headline. It was
written 20 years ago. Gibson has a proven record of being eerily prescient.

~~~
junto
Instant hot coffee in a can was one of my favourite little ideas he put
forward.

~~~
kpil
Yes. I actually came to think about that just recently. The whole scene popped
into my mind when making coffee in the morning. It made me feel a bit dizzy
actually, and it made me think of what other things that are looking more and
more probable.

Anonymous-type groups posing in 3d avatars comes to mind.

I remembered that at the time,I found it implausible that it was possible to
go online in Neuromancer without connecting to a fiber or something and that
it was just handwaved away. He was right and I was wrong, it was not
important.

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louprado
I can never tell if the ticketing websites always report that tickets are
almost sold-out. Regardless, that strategy just worked on me.

So today I will see John Kasich speak in San Jose and then I attend a J-Pop
vocaloid concert in the evening. A most weird day even by SF Bay standards.

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lmroz
Hatsune Miku was one of the opening acts for Lady Gaga on her 2014 artRave
arena tour.

I attended Gaga's Washington DC show, had never heard of Hatsune Miku, and had
no idea what was going on. Hatsune had live, human back-up dancers. By the end
of the set I realized this could be the future of music - when I got home I
devoured every piece of information on vocaloids I could find.

Lady Gaga talking about Hatsune:
[https://youtu.be/7QV63XHoenU](https://youtu.be/7QV63XHoenU)

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cs702
Here we have large groups of people in the US paying to attend concerts given
by a virtual pop star created and controlled by Japanese businessmen.

Reality truly is as strange as fiction!

~~~
alexvoda
Please see the discussion in the comments on Ars. If it wasn't sarcasm, what
you said is simply misinformation.

~~~
Paul_S
Could you clarify, please?

~~~
animeweedlord
The vast majority of popular Vocaloid music is created by the fans themselves,
not "Japanese businessmen." In fact, the kneejerk reaction is completely
backwards: regular human idols and pop stars are the fake, focus tested
machinations of businessmen. Vocaloids are a pure representation of the
feelings of regular people. The pop song on the radio was designed and
marketed to appeal to a certain audience by people that probably hate what
they're creating, acted out by a human puppet. The equivalent Vocaloid song
was made by someone that really wanted to write a song about love or
loneliness or saccharine positivity or whatever. Ordinary (but talented)
people living their dreams through a collective consciousness.

From my perspective, it seems strange that anyone enjoyed the "real" thing in
the first place.

~~~
Retric
Bull. These things are not created by a single person.

For a more western example Toy Story 3 might have been a moving story, but
it's no single persons vision given form. Instead it's the passion from many
distilled into it's most marketable form.

~~~
alexvoda
Are you claiming the songs are not made by individual persons? I know such
song writers personally. It's not that big of a deal to create a song an put
it on Youtube.

I don't really get why you are comparing it to Toy Story.

~~~
Retric
The song is just a small part. With human pop stars and Animation you at least
get a human's take on some music. But, here the voice is synthesized from
several people and effects, the motion are all re-rendered and refined based
on feedback from multiple people etc etc.

Yes, it's voice sounds interesting, but it completely lacks emotion. So, the
show ends up even more fake than Animation which still relies on traditional
voice actors.

~~~
alexvoda
I think you are misunderstanding something. And also assuming a lot more is
going on than it actually is.

First of all, the songs are the main part. All of the rest is just secondary.
You can not talk about anything related to Vocaloids without talking about the
voice synthesis software, the voice banks and the songs using them.

Secondly, most animations that may or may not accompany songs are little more
than slide shows with moving elements on the screen. Many songs don't even
have that. Many only have a picture.

Thirdly, out of the songs that become very popular, some get fan made
choreographies. In this process, motion capture using a Kinekt helps a lot,
but you need to do fine tuning for a smooth result.

Each of these steps is within the realm of what a single very dedicated person
can do.

Also, there is no such thing "the voice is synthesized from several people and
effects" . Each voice bank has a single donor. And you can purchase the
Vocaloid software and voice banks and use them without restrictions.

Sure, if you want to make a concert and charge for tickets, you might do the
choreography part more professionally and use fancy projection technology, so
people actually have a reason to pay for those tickets. Otherwise people can
just compile a concert themselves and project it in their homes. I did just
that for my family to explain the phenomenon to them.

As for your last paragraph, I don't think I can convince you something
fictional is not "fake". You shouldn't expect animation to look real because
that is not the point of animation. As for lacking emotion, I bet you have not
heard songs that try to do just that instead of being gimmicky. Try this:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BFvN-
idN1s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BFvN-idN1s) This was made by just two
people. One did the music and lyrics, the other the illustration and video.

~~~
Retric
I am not going to comment on the animation, or song in your link. Just the
'voice' which has zero emotional range.

There is an intresting recent study that used really short clips of people
laughing and asked: "Are they friends?" This is just laughter and it was
played for people around the globe. People did better than random. Not 100% by
any means but well past random change for a few seconds of laughter.

Now, extend this emotional void to a full song and it get's down right creepy.

~~~
alexvoda
I understand what you are saying. I guess not all of are are affected by this.
I guess at this point it's subjective. I understand why you might feel it's
creepy.

As for the study, I believe you are referring to this:
[http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/friends-or-not-laughter-
re...](http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/friends-or-not-laughter-reveal-
friendship-status-ucla-study) I have not read the article but I listened to
the sound clips. They are definitely different. But I do not associate either
with friends or strangers. If it were just these 2 clips I would probably
identify them correctly because one is more involved and energetic and I know
there is one of each kind. But I would probably find it more difficult to
identify the type of each clip from a set without any extra knowledge.

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mc32
Imagine once VR/AR become mainstream. You'd have real artists having simul-
cencerts in ten stadiums (or in homes for the homebodies) competing against
anime performers who don't get exhausted or get sick or who want to retire...
So the farce of the "artist" can be all done with --just corporate
manufactured music entertainment.

~~~
Paul_S
You make it sound like it's something other than utopian paradise. I will
never interact with any of the artists I listen to so whether or not they are
"real" makes no difference to me. Especially since a lot of artists have stage
personas who aren't "real" either so it comes down to whether the part is
played by a human actor or an animated one.

~~~
mc32
True but now it won't be an artist but personaes put together collectively
using metrics and other marketing inputs. There will be no ruse. It'll be
obvious and in son ways it's better than pretense.

And, as long as people get value out of that, I'm okay.

------
TD-Linux
It's TODAY in SF, there are still tickets available if you act fast.

~~~
franciscop
I'm totally surprised. I had the chance to go in Tokyo but only because my
friend could find in re-sale bid at 5x the original price. They got sold out
here so fast.

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magoghm
I've been waiting a long time to be able to see this show live. Since last
December I bought tickets to see Hatsune Miku "live" this June in Mexico City.

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20andup
I am guessing you don't need 3d glasses to see the hologram. If so, I am all
for it. They need to replace those very annoying glasses in 3d movies.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
It's not a 3D image.

~~~
userbinator
From the article: "massive, see-through projection screen"

Nonetheless, the projection technology behind this is interesting.

~~~
simcop2387
I think it's the same type of tech used for the Tupac hologram that was
touring a few years back. I believe it all works on the same kind of principle
as the Pepper's Ghost illusion.

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anoplus
I can't help but thinking about singularity.. but regardless, I believe if
done right this form of art can touch the most conservative and cynical.

~~~
pessimizer
I'm far from the most conservative and cynical, and this form of art lowers my
opinion of people in general.

------
alexvoda
There are already plenty of comments on Ars discussing the various
inaccuracies of the article.

I'm not sure pointing them out here would be useful.

For starters, cs702's comment here (
[https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=11602173&goto=item%3Fi...](https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=11602173&goto=item%3Fid%3D11601706)
) is plain wrong.

~~~
mrspeaker
Skimming through the top bunch of comments doesn't reveal much... is his
comment "plain wrong" as in it isn't a large group of people? Or they aren't
in the US? Or they aren't paying? Or it isn't a virtual pop star? Or it wasn't
created by Japanese businessmen? Or reality isn't as strange as fiction?

~~~
alexvoda
[https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=11602544&goto=item%3Fi...](https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=11602544&goto=item%3Fid%3D11601706)
summed things pretty well.

It is wrong in the assumptions it makes. For your questions in particular.

\- Yes, this was a concert (with paid tickets), in the US, attended by a large
group of people.

\- Yes and no, Miku is often called a Virtual pop star but that is a misnomer
if by virtual pop star you mean anything else than just a fictional character
who is a popular singer. It is just like saying Harry Potter is a wizard.

\- It depends on your meaning of create. Miku was indeed created by Crypton.
But what they created is nothing more than a voicebank for the vocal synthesis
software Vocaloid, given it a name and commissioned someone to create the box
art for the product. Everything else about Miku (her personality, likes,
dislikes, hobbies, friendships, rivalries, clothes, the songs she sings, etc.)
was made by fans. Miku is by no means controlled by anyone. Crypton, who have
the original trademark for the character have given everyone the right to
create what they want with the character. Through the fan art you make (songs,
animations, fan fics, etc.) you have as much control on Miku as anyone else.
There is no canon version of the Vocaloids.

Vocaloid is the vocal synthesis software created by Yamaha. The software uses
voice banks usually provided by third parties. Each voice bank usually has a
character associated. These characters are collectively called the Vocaloids.
Hatsune Miku is one of the characters for one of the voice banks. It has
nothing to do with all the visuals. Fans just created 3D animation software
for crating animations with the characters. These animations were eventually
used to create the concerts. Crypton, being the original trademark holder
started providing these concerts to fans who requested them using fan made
songs, fan made costumes and fan made choreographies.

\- I leave the last question about the strangeness of reality to you.

~~~
Animats
Yes. It's all synthesized, and mostly by fans. The Vocaloid software is for
sale, for about $100.[1]

Creating a new Vocaloid voice still requires a live singer, who must sing a
long list of phrases. It's not a direct voice synthesis. Full singing
synthesizers exist, but as yet are not as good.

[1]
[http://sonicwire.com/product/vocaloid/special/mikuv3e](http://sonicwire.com/product/vocaloid/special/mikuv3e)

~~~
Mithaldu
Incorrect, not phrases, syllables and sounds and not very many either, at
least for japanese. Things get kind of stupidly large only if you make an
english voicebank, because english is highly irregular.

