
Eating Thai Fruit Demands Serious Effort but Delivers Sublime Reward - Petiver
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/22/world/asia/bangkok-thailand-fruit-durian.html
======
3131s
I live in Cambodia where all of these fruits are available, and more. I like
every fruit mentioned, except salak, and eat many of them every day.

This author comes off as a deeply uncultured American giving a generic
impression of a drunken 3-5 day visit to SEA. There are so many errors in this
article it's unreal.

Jackfruit does not have a "jagged sheath" (that's durian).

Dragon fruit is only mushy when it's badly bruised or overripe, and there are
other varieties that are sweeter and richer than the white variety.

Durian does not "stink of death".

Salak are normally imported from Indonesia, as far as I know. Maybe the author
is thinking of salacca wallichiana, which is related but tastes very
different?

Describing a langsat as a "demure cousin" of the lychee is a totally
meaningless way of saying that they belong to the same order of plants.

~~~
magnio
It puzzles me how the smell of durian, which I find very aromatic, can be
disgusting to some people.

Also dragon fruit is a 'bland mush'? I've must have been eating the wrong
fruit. There's also a red dragon fruit which is a little tastier.

~~~
LordAtlas
Well, when nations that grow durian natively have signs banning durian from
public transport and hotels, it's probably a good indication that enough of a
majority finds the smell unpalatable.

(I've tried durian in Malaysia, Singapore, and Thailand to try to like them. I
have failed. There is just no divorcing the taste from the stench.)

~~~
magnio
It isn't necessary that the majority of the population hates it. Just a
sizeable portion like 20% is enough.

Also the puzzling thing is the stark disparity of the perception of the smell
between different people. That doesn't happen to, say, seeing. This is akin to
having a dress where half the people says it's black while the rest say it's
white.

~~~
pests
What? Did you forget about the dress? Blue or gold? That totally has happened
with seeing.

------
reedlaw
Dragon fruit can be grown in California, Florida, and Hawaii and is not "bland
mush with tiny seeds that can require floss to dislodge". The author must have
had a bad one. They can be extremely sweet. The seeds are so small that they
go down without noticing and I've never had to use floss. My favorite is a
variety with deep red flesh.

Mangosteen is so far from its depiction---"to eat a pile of mangosteens is an
exercise in disappointment"\---that I wonder what kind of pile the author ate.
In the US, imported mangosteens can run $20 a pound, so getting a few bad ones
would be a disappointment. I suppose many vendors would issue a refund for the
bad ones. But in Thailand a pile of mangosteens is so cheap that you wouldn't
bother. They are exquisite, almost the fruit equivalent of ice cream (they
taste better chilled). It's no wonder they call it the queen of fruits.

Durian likewise deserves its designation as king of fruits. Most people,
myself included, are repulsed on the first encounter. But if you can get over
the initial shock, you will enjoy the most flavorful fruit with custard-like
texture. Its flavor can be described as a combination of many other fruit
flavors with a complexity only matched by good coffee and dark chocolate.

Jackfruit is cheap and abundant in Mexican and Asian supermarkets in the US.
The trouble is peeling and finishing a whole one. Some stores may sell wrapped
pieces if you just want a taste. But if you have some guests and time to work
with gloves and a knife, eating a whole jackfruit is a memorable experience.

~~~
greggman3
I don't dislike Dragon Fruit but having had 30 or so of them in SE Asia
(Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia, Taiwan) I've never had one that was
"extremely sweet". All of them were relatively on the bland every place I had
one. It's good to know they can be sweet but I'm curious why finding a sweet
one is so rare.

As for the seeds I agree. It's like eating kiwi seeds.

Mangosteen is great! No idea why the author had so much hate.

Durian though ... well I've tried it about 7-8 times and I get that it
"tastes" good but I still don't get it. For example in Singapore there is a
chain of cream puff stores that carry durian and vanilla cream puffs. To my
"unrefined" palette they taste 95% the same but one stinks so if I was to go
again I'd choose the vanilla that doesn't stink vs the durian that does. I'm
sure I'll try them again but I suspect my reaction will be the same. Tastes
fine (like vanilla custard) but why put up with the stink when I can just have
vanilla custard.

That said, last summer when I was in Malaysia was the first time the smell
started not being so repelling so (a) I'm getting used to it (b) they were in
season (c) like the cat virus they've reprogramed my brain :P

~~~
philliphaydon
> I don't dislike Dragon Fruit but having had 30 or so of them in SE Asia
> (Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia, Taiwan) I've never had one that
> was "extremely sweet". All of them were relatively on the bland every place
> I had one. It's good to know they can be sweet but I'm curious why finding a
> sweet one is so rare.

Our experience is vastly different!

While not a fan of dragon fruit, I do eat it relatively often as my wife loves
it. We usually buy pre-peeled pack at the super market when we visit.

For me it is definitely sweet. Not 'extremely' but it's definitely sweeter
than a good banana or royal grape. Definitely not bland at all. I don't think
I've had a non-sweet version in any of the countries you listed.

Edit: I just had a thought. I always eat Purple dragon fruit, not the white
one. Maybe that's the difference.

~~~
greggman3
I had both white and purple. I had hoped the purple would be sweeter but I
never noticed a difference. It's hard to describe in words what how sweet
something is but if I was to rank every fruit I've ever eaten in terms of
sweetness Dragon Fruit would be at or near the bottom. I've have bland
watermelon but I've had tons of sweet watermelon. I've bland other melons but
I've had ton of sweet ones. I've never had a unsweet mango or an unsweet
lychee or an unsweet mangosteen. I have had unsweet strawberries but mostly
sweet ones.

Anyway, I'll keep trying dragon fruit hoping for a sweet one.

I think at the moment my favorite fruit I've had in SE Asia is cherimoya and
I'm surprised they are not way more popular as they are so dang delicious!
It's like someone made an apple \+ orange creamsicle fruit

~~~
philliphaydon
OH Custard Apple!!! The best I've had is in Taiwan.

It's one of my wifes favourite fruits, but we can't find good one in
Singapore.

~~~
lokedhs
Don't they have them in regular grocery stores in Singapore? They might only
have them when they're in season though.

~~~
philliphaydon
They aren't very good. A lot of the time they are rock hard and if you let
them rippen they don't turn out very good. Just used to Taiwan where it's
always nice and soft and yummy.

------
9nGQluzmnq3M
The primary limiting factor in distributing these is not that they're hard to
eat: pineapples are a pain too, but they're available everywhere, while many
of the fruit listed (eg. rambutan, salak/snakefruit, langsat/duku) are trivial
to peel.

Instead, it's simply that they don't transport well. Most tropical fruit
available in the West are picked raw, kept refrigerated and chemically ripened
on arrival, but this isn't possible for most of the fruit listed, certainly
not mangosteens or langsat/duku.

~~~
KMag
My understanding is that this is the same reason why there are many more
varieties of banana available in Thailand vs. the U.S.

~~~
hackerbabz
Bananas in SEA are so much more delicious than in America. They also have very
thin skins.

------
legitster
This isn't exclusive to exotic fruit either.

In a trip to central Washington, I bought a flat of Pluots (plum/apricot
hybrids), and they were one of the most profound things I have ever eaten. So
sweet and juicy, they almost burst like water balloons when you took a bite.

Less than four hours away from where they are grown, I have yet to find any
varieties with the same magic available in grocery stores. They good ones are
simply too delicate and too short lived.

It ends up being worth the trip every year to go when they are in season.

~~~
mjklin
In Virginia we have pawpaw fruit that taste like custard, but must be eaten
soon after picking since they bruise very easily and don’t store or ship well.

~~~
foobiekr
Pawpaws are nothing compared to their better cousins in the Annonaceae family,
and in particular the Cherimoya.

Downside; they all contain annonacin, which may cause Parkinsons. [1]

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annonacin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annonacin)

~~~
KMag
Whoah. Thanks for the warning. There's a squirrel that keeps trying to stash
custard apples in my mother-in-law's planter in Thailand. They're tasty (and
delivered by squirrels!), but I didn't know about the toxicity.

------
claudiawerner
Exotic fruits have been interesting to me in a while, and I hope to get my
hands on some in my own country. For others interested, there's a channel
which is all about exotic fruits and foods in general (including Thai ones),
and his videos are always extremely informative and conscious[0].

[0] [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChsbD6Clp-
ZPqKwXJR3V7DQ](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChsbD6Clp-ZPqKwXJR3V7DQ)

------
selimthegrim
Longan and papaya are pretty easy to find in New Orleans if you know where to
look.

In the Indian subcontinent a common phrase is "the jackfruit is still on the
tree and you've already put oil on your lips/mustache" meaning don't count
your chickens before the eggs have hatched.

------
ponker
I'm a homebody but great fruit I will travel for. The absolute best fruit is
ripened on the plant to the point of being so soft that it would be destroyed
if handled. I drive hours to various wild blackberry bushes around Northern
California and eat them right off the bush -- just the act of separating them
from the bush basically splits them in half so they could never be sold
commercially.

------
rcpt
These are all pretty easy to find in Los Angeles, New York, and the Bay. How
many other things do you see if you actually venture to SE Asia?

Central America has all kinds of things that I never see here, eg. canistel or
black sapote, as well as variants of mango, corn, and banana that don't sell
in the US.

~~~
nerdponx
Jackfruit is pretty uncommon in NY City outside of specialty Asian markets.
Durian even moreso.

Dragonfruit exists mostly as a frozen smoothie ingredient, although you can
get it seasonally as well.

Lychee is somewhat available seasonally, longan never or almost never.

And I've never seen a Pomelo outside of SE Asia.

~~~
Nursie
I can buy Pomelo at fruit shops and at least one fruit stall in the middle of
a mall here in Southampton, UK. It's strange what travels to some places and
not others.

I bought one a few years ago and was disappointed at the small amount of
grapefruit-ish flesh, not realising how people actually eat them (candied peel
and pith) in parts of Asia.

~~~
nerdponx
Interesting, I never ate the pith, but I haven't traveled Asia extensively. I
ate the fruit in Vietnam topped with salt and chili powder.

~~~
Nursie
Actually one reason we may see Pomelo here is that the universities in this
city attract a lot of Chinese students, and there are a number of shops and
restaurants that have sprung up to cater for them.

How it's eaten does seem to vary by country. I've never tried the pith either,
but would like to sometime!

------
thisrod
Here in Australia, you can actually get fresh durians!

There are only 50 odd trees in the country, near Darwin, so the fruit cost a
mint by the time they are flow to Melbourne and Sydney. They're good. The
consensus is better than the Thai ones, but I hang around Malaysians, who have
a low opinion of Thai durians.

Around 1980, there was talk of growing tropical fruit in Northern Australia.
Our seasons are out of phase with Asia's, so that would have made a lot of
sense. I don't know why it didn't happen.

There is one problem that the article doesn't mention: people who haven't been
to Southeast Asia tend to mistake the durian smell for a gas leak, and call
the fire brigade. You have to be careful where you take them in the west.

------
refurb
My wife's family is from SE Asia and I always eat way more fruit than normal
when visiting. It's always cheap, plentiful and high quality.

Star fruit are one of my favorites. Kind of a crunchy, tart apple flavor.

~~~
9nGQluzmnq3M
Try a golden starfruit next time, and ripen it until the edges turn brown. It
will now be sweet and juicy.

------
neonate
[https://archive.vn/UKJCI](https://archive.vn/UKJCI)

------
thewileyone
Thai durian is nothing when compared to the smell and taste of Malaysian
durian.

I love durian but the smell can be overpowering. I left a few in my car for an
afternoon, parked in an underground garage, to bring to my family after work.
I had to drive with the windows down for 2 weeks.

------
Nursie
On a recent trip to Bangkok it was often hard to tell whether one was
approaching an actual open sewer or just a durian stall.

Sad I missed the fruit market though, I bet they have a massive variety of
banana cultivars. I tried a couple I'd never had before when over there.

~~~
deanCommie
I'm curious is aversion to durian is at least somewhat genetic, similar to
cilantro and broccoli.

I spent 6 weeks traveling around Southeast Asia (Thailand, Cambodia, Laos,
Vietnam), including several days in Bangkok.

I ate a metric ton of durian, jackfruit (my favourite), mangostein, lychie,
and so forth.

I never noted any negative durian odour, and I just assumed that "it must
always be fresh in Southeast Asia", and any reports are based on stale or
older fruit after it's travelled internationally...

~~~
teruakohatu
After reading the article I thought the same thing. People who hate cilantro
tend to absolutely hate even the thought of it.

~~~
sg47
I'm in this boat and my wife thinks I'm being fussy. The thought of cilantro
wants to make me puke but no one ever seems to relate to it. The worst part is
my native cuisine uses cilantro extensively.

~~~
thaumasiotes
> I'm in this boat and my wife thinks I'm being fussy.

I'm curious about the phrasing here; as far as I can see, that's what "being
fussy" means.

~~~
sg47
She thinks it's a choice. For me, when I eat cilantro I really do feel like
puking. There was a study that said cilantro tastes like soap to 10% of the
population.

------
mohankumar246
Jackfruit is one of the most nutritious and colon healthy vegetable on the
planet. It is full of healthy fiber and keeps you feeling full long after
unlike other vegetables. Many families in South india cosume lot of jackfruit
in the season.
[https://thejackfruitcompany.com/jackfruit-101/](https://thejackfruitcompany.com/jackfruit-101/)

~~~
3131s
And the seeds are edible when cooked!

------
maguay
Another fun Thai fruit: ตะขบ (`da kop`), which are these tiny custard-like
berries that literally spoil within hours after picking them. They make great
shade trees, so you can often find them growing over a road in residential
areas, and just pick a couple to eat on the spot. You'll never find them in a
store, but they're a quintessential part of childhood here.

~~~
9nGQluzmnq3M
Is this the same as _da kop farang_ , or are these different fruits/berries?

[https://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%B0%E0%B8%82%E0...](https://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%B0%E0%B8%82%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%9D%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B1%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%87)

~~~
maguay
Yup, that's the same! Apparently the name has _farang_ in it since the tree
isn't originally native to Thailand; Wikipedia says it's a transplant from
Mexico, interestingly enough.

------
avcdsuia
> the durian would still probably have the highest grapple factor among
> Southeast Asia’s endemic fruits. Thai exports of the fruit are mostly
> destined for China, where consumers tend to be more willing to work for
> their meals.

Actually, Durain is not that hard to process, a chopstick or a screwdriver can
do the job easily, can't be harder than opening a whole Jamón.

------
PakG1
And in other news, durian causes an evacuation in Germany and sends people to
a hospital... but I love durian!

[https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/22/europe/durian-germany-
evacuat...](https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/22/europe/durian-germany-evacuation-
scli-intl-grm/index.html)

~~~
userbinator
_Last year, staff at the University of Canberra library were forced to
evacuate the building due to a suspected gas leak, but a search revealed the
stench was in fact caused by the fruit._

That's what I've always associated the smell of durian with --- not stinking
or rotting as others often say, but "gas leak". Not surprisingly, the same
compound is responsible for both:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanethiol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanethiol)

------
oh_sigh
Is work being done to develop easy to peel, low seed count cultivars of
various exotic fruits like these? I can only imagine that their consumptive
experience is similar to what Native Americans dealt with when they first
encountered bananas tens of thousands of years ago.

------
gumby
These fruit are hardly unique to Thailand and I ate them all as a kid in
Malaysia (which of course abuts Thailand) and Singapore. I believe they are
all available in other nearby countries as well. National borders are pretty
arbitrary.

------
oska
Dragon fruit is actually native to Central America, not SE Asia. It's the
fruit of a cactus. [1]

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitaya](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitaya)

------
decafninja
My wife loves fruit and she's willing to put in the effort to eat fruit (peel,
dig, carve, etc. etc.)

As for me, while there's certain fruit I do like a lot, I'm far less willing
to put in the effort and often I just don't bother.

------
082349872349872
Easy Mode Durian: frozen durian has most of the taste and little of the smell.

------
enriquto
What's going on with the nyt? This is incredibly bad quality writing.

------
michelb
I'm always amazed at the various types of delicious fruit nature produces.
Walking over a foreign market is like fruit fantasy land for me.

------
voldacar
The author must have had an overripe dragonfruit - their flavor is subtle but
quite lovely. not tasteless or mushy in the slightest

------
Markoff
unpopular opinion - durian is overrated, I don't get what's so special about
it, even the smell is not really that big, people must have fancy noses if
they think it's particularly smelly, some European cheeses are way more
(unpleasantly) smellier

my favorite of exotic fruit is dragon fruit - looks nice, easy to consume with
spoon, good flavor

------
alexmingoia
All of these fruits are popular all over Southeast Asia and India.

------
harikb
As someone who grew up in southern India in a house literally surrounded by at
least few dozens of these trees[1], most of them also hosting black pepper
creepers, I wonder how this became Thai Fruit? Come on, we even have a western
name!

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackfruit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackfruit)

~~~
peteretep
Hard to find a fruit stall without it in Thailand, but I’ve not seen if for
sale in my (much more limited) time in India. It’s a staple in Thailand, so
maybe that’s the reason?

~~~
mangamadaiyan
It depends on which part of India you're in, as well as the part of the city
you're in. Jackfruit is definitely a staple in the South, and not so popular
in the North. If you're in Bangalore, say, you're unlikely to find it in a
supermarket; you'd have to go look for it in the right places.

------
exabrial
Hilariously, in Singapore jackfruit is banned on public transport because it
smells so awful. I tried some of this though and it it's not a flavor that I
had tasted before. Hard to describe but really good if you could hold your
nose for the smell.

~~~
late2part
Jackfruit or Durian?

~~~
userbinator
That said, extremely ripe jackfruit will also emit a sickly-sweet smell that's
"so sweet it stinks", like an overdose of perfume.

~~~
3131s
I actually like the smell of rotting jackfruit, but that is a good
description.

------
moneytide1
"when the rising mercury concentrates sugars"

Mercury is not capitalized here, which makes a huge difference. In assuming
astrological Mercury, not somehow the element?

~~~
refurb
It's a reference to a mercury (the element) thermometer. When the temperature
rises, the mercury rises.

It's been decades since mercury thermometers were common for the average
person. We'll need to update our idioms!

~~~
moneytide1
Makes sense now, temperature - I was looking into it too much because I've
seen in Farmers Almanacs schedules of planting&harvesting with lunar cycles
because the gravitational pull is thought to assist essential growth phases.

I thought perhaps Thai farmers were also heeding Mercury alignment or
retrograde to achieve a certain fruiting outcome (gravity from Mercury would
be negligible compared to our Moon).

