
Little brother, if I had to go to college again - atom-morgan
http://blog.atommorgan.com/little-brother-if-i-had-to-do-college-again
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analog31
>>> Look attentive in class even if you aren’t paying attention

I'd go just a tiny step further. We're at a juncture where we don't exactly
know the relative merits of classroom versus online education, but if you
happen to be in a classroom, then make the best possible use of it.

In addition to networking, the other use of classroom time is observing and
emulating the teaching styles of your teachers, on the way to developing your
own style. The value is that -- teaching careers aside -- almost anything you
might like to do in life beyond your cubicle will involve something analogous
to teaching.

~~~
sanderjd
Wow, such great advice. I'll take it another tiny step further - learn how to
teach from great teachers and learn how to learn from less great teachers. It
turns out that regardless of what you do in life, teaching and learning are
often more important than doing.

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Nursie
With the amount of debt that seems to be involved in college in the US these
days I'm not surprised it's all very business-like. What happened to
'socialise, grow, have fun (but also learn) ?'

What's with the 'minor' thing? Here in the UK university is basically the time
you concentrate on your one specialisation. You've had your schooling, your
degree is the time for a deep dive into a single thing.

~~~
burntsushi
To me, a "deep dive into a single thing" is a more apt description of a PhD.

A minor indicates a small concentration of coursework in a field separate (but
possibly related) from your major.

Many students also double major, which effectively results in graduating with
two degrees. Frequently, these majors are related (like, CS & Math), but
sometimes they are unrelated (I know someone that did CS & PolySci).

It's hard to quantify the benefits of a minor or a double major. Presumably,
it looks better to perspective employers and may give you a wider range of
employment opportunities depending on which fields you selected.

~~~
Nursie
To me a PhD is original research rather than deep study. I'm not a PhD type of
guy - I'll absorb and apply absolutely everything you can throw at me on a
topic, but I'm damned if I can come up with something new I want to
investigate.

But thanks for the reply, it's more context :)

~~~
burntsushi
I'm a PhD drop out. Certainly, original research is part of it. But what is
required to do original research? A deep dive into a single thing. :-)

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Balgair
To the article: Starting a side-gig is dependent on major and minor. If you
take psych, I imagine at most schools you have time to minor and make some
extra dough. If you Chemical engineering, I don't imagine you have that mind
of time. Personally, I worked as a janitor, took a physics BS, and did a
thesis in a lab writing papers.

I like the author's suggestions of non-conventional routes, as mine were
pretty conventional. Thank you for the tips.

As to college:

Stay in 1 Friday a month to study. It will put you ahead of most of the class.

In the dorms pull your bed a little away from the wall, enough to hide a beer
there when you need to.

OFFICE HOURS. Go to them regularly, even if you think you know it all.

Buy a flashlight, fire-extinguisher, and plunger.

If you don't know what to do, go to the place you will learn the most. Stretch
yourself.

Don't let school get in the way of 'college.' Study hard, and make sure to
have fun too. The alternative is true. Do not leave school with a taste for
bad beer and jazz. Do something. Write a rock-opera, plan the framing for a
house, etc.

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martian
This is great advice. Starting a business is difficult work, though. My advice
is always to get an internship at a big tech company that you respect. Learn
from the masters in your industry. There is so much to being a developer that
is not taught in CS curriculum: tools, teamwork, managing a large codebase,
dealing with ambiguous specs and constraints, etc.

More and more I have come to believe that while knowing the fundamental CS
theory is important, software engineering is a craft that is best learned
through apprenticeship. Sure, you can learn the theory in school, then try a
bunch of things and figure it out on your own, but the best developers I've
met are those that have studied under great mentors for the first few years of
their careers. Once you have that basic training, you are much better equipped
to venture off on your own.

~~~
toxik
While it is true that apprenticeship can be very fulfilling and meaningful, it
can only do so if the individual is ready for it. The linked text mentions the
blasé type people for whom nothing seems important enough -- these would learn
or develop much under a mentor.

I'm intrigued by your suggestion, as somebody who learned the trade on my own,
got a job with very poor terms (which nobody would tell me, because hey wow
it's a programming job, amazing) -- and then I woke up, realized where I was,
and started pursuing a degree in computer science instead. Best decision I
ever made.

I think my story isn't very uncommon, but my question is: how would you
approach getting a mentor?

~~~
martian
Yeah, I hear you. My first jobs out of college were also not as inspired as
they could have been, partially because I didn't have a great mentor to guide
me through the process.

My advice for finding a mentor is to look for a job at a company with people
you respect and look up to. You want to work with engineers who are better
than you and can teach you things. It sounds like you're in school right now,
but if this is an option for you: start interviewing at tech companies and see
what you find. There are many mediocre companies but also many great ones. If
you're in SF (or willing to move here) send me an email and I can help out.

If you're not able to get a new job, you can still learn a lot from people
around you. I have mentored a few people off and on over the past few years.
Some people I've met through friends or through formal mentorship programs
like HackBright. I think you'll find that there are a lot of engineers out
there willing to meet up and help you learn.

And if you're currently in school: well, that's what school is for ;-)

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001sky
_If you look like you’re paying attention, teachers will like you even if you
never talk to them. This is exactly how I got my job as a teaching assistant
for programming classes and I only remember talking to the teacher once or
twice all semester. This job ended up being the reason why I got a job
interview with every company I submitted my resume to. It doesn’t take much to
get a significant advantage over everyone else in college._

This is a great point. And also everything that's wrong with both university
education and "the interview process" condensed into a single paragraph: non-
functional behaviour, selective disclosure, cognitive bias, and path-
dependency....etc.

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tedchs
I have asked the question in tech interviews "what do you do to stay on top of
things?" and you'd be disappointed to know how many people say "well, nothing
really". What you do to stay informed is the #1 thing that separates top
engineers from the rest.

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rebelidealist
I started and sold a business in college. It was quite stressful and I missed
out on a lot of great social and networking opportunities. I wouldn't do it
unless it is a simple side business.

The only thing i regret is not studying abroad.

~~~
eldavido
Agree. College is too expensive and unique to get distracted by taking on a
lot of other commitments. I don't know what kind of college the OP attended,
but if it's not hard enough to be genuinely challenging and demand your full
attention, honestly I think you're doing it wrong.

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a3voices
What about "Be involved with a core group of friends, go to parties, and have
a good time"?

~~~
atom-morgan
I figured he's already doing that :)

