
Dear Apple, We Need an Affordable and Upgradable Mac - sinatra
https://namityadav.com/post/177983417975/dear-apple-we-need-an-affordable-and-upgradable
======
berbec
I hate to play the devil's advocate here, but why would Apple make an
upgradeable machine? Having everything built in drives sales and they've
obviously done the math and come up with the right numbers. They believe they
won't get enough new purchases due to upgradability to offset the loss in
sales.

The people who are most in favor of this either go PC, Linux or Hackintosh.

~~~
sonnyblarney
There will be a price to pay that's hard to be felt in the early numbers.

I am for the first time considering switching away from Mac simply because
getting a relatively powerful machine on mac is how prohibitively expensive.

Remember that Mac/OSX get it's underlying impetus from a vast number of
individuals who are not working for big tech etc..

------
mosselman
Dear Apple, please change your economic models that made you the biggest
company in the world on account of my blog post.

~~~
charlesism
One component of what made Apple the richest company in the world was a
willingness to uphold their reputation, even if it meant leaving money on the
table. They've now spent over five years burning through that capital.

For developers, Apple has turned in Comcast. Developers used to evangelize
Apple. Now it's "I wish I could switch, but I need MacOS, so they're the only
game in town."

~~~
wilsonnb3
Developers tend to overstate how much their love or hatred of apple matters to
both Apple themselves and the general public.

~~~
charlesism
It isn't possible to overstate the importance of developers to the health of
Apple. There are so many reasons. Maybe the most significant: without love
from the developer community, Apple can't hire and retain "A players"

~~~
mosselman
It seems as if in this thread 'developers' means multiple things: 1.
developers who make apps? 2. developers who work for Apple.

------
bdcravens
Been looking at a cheap alternative to my MacBook when traveling. Bought a 2
year old Thinkpad for under $400. Replacing keyboard - pleasantly surprised at
how serviceable this machine is. Upgrading RAM and storage is actually doable,
and took about 10 minutes. Dual batteries, up to 32gb of ram (2 years ago!),
and supported LTE more nice touches.

~~~
nobleach
That sounds like a sweetheart of a deal! I managed to get a 2014 Dell for
about that price (after RAM upgrade to 16gb). One SSD and one spinning disk.
But the thing was great for popping off the back and plugging and unplugging
things. I'd have killed for a Thinkpad though!

------
george_perez
It seems like tomorrow is only going to be about iPhone and Apple Watch. iPad
Pro and Macs are going to be announced at a later October event.

[[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-10/apple-
to-...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-10/apple-to-kick-off-
product-blitz-with-iphone-xs-line-new-
watches\]\(https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-10/apple-to-kick-
off-product-blitz-with-iphone-xs-line-new-watches\))

------
ozten
Dear Louis Vuitton, I want a sustainable and inexpensive handbag.

------
itomato
I would love to see Apple embark on an OEM program similar to the old clone
license of yore.

As an OEM partner (Clevo, Asrock or the like), I can purchase T3 chips (or
whatever they'll be called) or whatever silicon IP it takes to bless OEMs to
help the Mac platform flourish.

The whole widget philosophy has arguably worked well for macOS, but not so
much for the user.

Keep the standards high, but jeez Tim, enable partners to serve the market if
you don't care to.

Enthusiasm helps sustain platforms. Ask any Windows user whether they have
'voided their warranty'.

These customers don't buy Apple Care and they don't need the slick retail
experience. What they will do is breathe fresh life into a fading platform and
bring more people under the tent.

------
rstupek
Dear Apple, I want the machine you already said you were working on that will
come next year

~~~
bdcravens
They haven't even released the charger they announced last year

------
salex89
So in the last 5 years I went from full time Linux at work, over full time
Windows (Linux on servers), to full time OSX (and again, Linux on servers). I
have dual boot Windows and Linux on my personal rig. I see the pros and cons
of all, but to be honest, I can't find something that really makes me
dependant on any of them (especially on OSX). I just find it a bit sad to have
to beg vendors (hardware and software) for anything. Don't buy their gear for
a generation or two and look at them listen for the next ten.

~~~
pjmlp
The days we needed to buy hardware every three years are gone.

------
darth_mastah
> Switching to Linux isn’t an option due to all the design, legal, and other
> such documents I need to work with frequently for my startup. I can’t risk
> using alternative open source tools to edit such important documents because
> the professionals in those areas, are set in their ways and are not going
> change just for me.

Excuse me, what? Since when editing such important documents can be done only
on Mac? That's the dumbest thing I've read all day.

~~~
pjmlp
When the software doesn't exist on Linux?

~~~
Doxin
Name one filetype you can open on OSX that you can't open on linux. I'll wait.

------
P_I_Staker
LMFAO, have you met Apple before? I'm not holding out for them to change their
ways anytime soon. They seem to have made every effort to avoid having a
general mac box.

> "The smallness or thinness of the machine is absolutely irrelevant for me
> because it’ll sit under the desk."

It's relevant to apple and a top design consideration. Practicality almost
always takes a back seat to shininess and size at Apple.

> If I can get a good Windows desktop for $600 ... I can maybe angrily even
> pay $1000. But, I can’t justify paying $3000 for it

This is why I can't imagine anyone buying a desktop from these people. Is that
something people are still doing? I guess some industries are very apple
centric. Baffling to me.

> Why should Apple care?

Let me stop you there, they don't. They never have. There's nothing they care
less about than what the user _thinks_ they want. Sometimes this leads to good
designs, other times it just adds cost or inconvenience to the customer. This
is Apple's MO. Don't like it, buy a Windows or Linux box.

------
whynotminot
Honestly the best situation for someone like this is to buy a nice $800
Windows machine and do your development in a Linux VM. For years now
developers not in the Mac ecosystem have used this approach.

I prefer developing on Mac myself, but have used the other approach too with
good success. It works, just maybe not as seamlessly.

~~~
dmcginty
In the post they specifically say they can't use Linux due to legal reasons. I
imagine this would apply to a VM, also.

~~~
whynotminot
They were talking about editing documents that require licensed / non-open
source software, no? Not the actual development?

Edit your docs in windows, write your code on the Linux VM.

~~~
justwalt
Why not run Linux with Windows in the VM? Is there a reason?

~~~
whynotminot
Potato potato.

For instance for my current dev station I have a Mac and whenever I need
Windows for something I use a Windows VM. It works pretty well for me.

The bottom line is that the guy needs cheap hardware that allows for a modern
dev environment and also access to windows. Some flavor of linux + windows
will check the boxes.

------
GeekyBear
Dear Blogger, The thing you want is called a Hackintosh. (MacOS running on
standard PC hardware)

The trick is to select hardware that is known to have valid Mac drivers.

[https://www.tonymacx86.com](https://www.tonymacx86.com)

~~~
stefanfisk
It seems to suck if you are a professional though? Losing a days work over a
broken upgrade is hundreds of dollars in lost income.

~~~
GeekyBear
Why would you apply an update on day one with an OS that still gives the user
total control over update behavior?

On a productive machine, waiting a few days to see if a new update causes
problems for others is standard advice for any platform.

If you choose to run MacOS in a virtual machine on standard PC hardware,
backing up the machine state before applying an update is as simple as
duplicating your virtual system disk before applying the update.

~~~
stefanfisk
A hackintosh is quite different from running macOS in a VM. And even if you
wait “a few days” you are part of such a small group of users that you know
very little about how you might be affected.

~~~
GeekyBear
The blogger in question wanted to be able to run MacOS on cheap standard
hardware.

A Hackintosh on bare metal and running in a virtual machine both allow them to
do exactly that.

If you visit the link to the Hackintosh community provided above you will find
plenty of information from Hackintosh users who have already installed the
various system updates and even beta OS releases.

~~~
stefanfisk
I’ve done the hackintosh thing, and I might do it again someday, but as far as
I can tell it is nowhere near as smooth as running officially sanctioned
hardware.

And regarding running macOS in a VM, so you mean with PCI passthrough? Because
AFAIK there are no drivers for virtualized graphics.

~~~
GeekyBear
If you build a machine using components that leverage the drivers built into
the OS you can bypass those problems.

That's why sites like the one given above are so helpful in the process.

They list the specific components that are known for worry free operation.

It's like building a Windows NT machine back in the day. You have to stick
with components that are known to work with Apple's drivers, likely because
Apple has used that same component in one of it's own computers.

------
ezoe
Don't buy Apple products. Problem solved.

------
through
You could go ala John Draper and buy a computer with coincidentally similar
hardware...

[https://www.scan.co.uk](https://www.scan.co.uk)

------
thewizardofaus
An affordable and upgradable Mac is known as a ThinkPad.

------
powerapple
Dear Apple, we need a pear. Why?

~~~
izacus
Because "we" want it. It's free market capitalism, people have the right to
express their opinions and push companies to build products they want to
purchase.

------
wemdyjreichert
Sorry, not gonna happen. Pick two.

------
newnewpdro
Dear Apple, I want a PC.

~~~
mosselman
Dear Apple, I want a cross-platform Macos is probably nearer in what the
author wants.

