
Suing Equifax in Small Claims Court - wglb
https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/people-are-suing-equifax-in-small-claims-court-its-totally-brilliant-heres-why.html
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caymanjim
This story is gaining a lot of traction, and publications like Inc are picking
up on it as a David-vs-Goliath tale. Some of them link to Christian Haigh's
blog posts ([https://blog.legalist.com/i-won-8-000-from-equifax-in-
small-...](https://blog.legalist.com/i-won-8-000-from-equifax-in-small-claims-
court-heres-how-you-can-too-f0ce6925c079)). What seems to get lost in the
secondary articles is that Christian Haigh works for Legalist, and the entire
article, while I believe it to be true, is an advertisement for his legal
services company to help you sue Equifax as well. This isn't David-vs-Goliath,
this is someone well-versed in the law with the resource of a company behind
him, taking on Equifax armed with knowledge and resources that the average
consumer does not have. It may be possible to repeat his success on your own,
but it's certainly not likely. He was prepared to respond to common legal
tactics that Equifax's lawyer would easily defeat a normal plaintiff with. And
again, this is all an advertisement for his legal services company, so I've
got a bag of salt we can all share.

~~~
rictic
To take the same information and present it in a different way: this legal
services company is able to win a lawsuit that an unassisted or naive litigant
would lose. They make some money, the person who was harmed by Equifax gets
some money, and Equifax is disincentivized to mishandle people's personal
information. This is good, isn't it?

~~~
caymanjim
Equifax may be terrible, punishing them may be good, this may be a good way to
punish them. One might debate whether small claims court is the right venue,
what the role of the government is, whether this is a civil or criminal
matter, and more generally what the impact of litigation is.

None of this is to say that I disagree. This is a feel-good story where the
little man gets to stick it to the Big Evil Corporation. I just think it's
disingenuous to present it as a story of what one man can do in the face of
injustice, and then have a publication like Inc. repeat the story while
leaving out important details about the plaintiff's qualifications and
incentive.

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nimbius
small claims court may be dismissed by major corporations as inconvenient and
worthy of quick settlement, however many may be mistaken in this judgement.
Small claims court victories, if added up over time work as a sort of cancer
that erodes at the foundation of the supremacy of tacit communal beliefs in an
industry or corporate entity. These victories can be evidenced in "real"
trials, and often have the overwhelming power to issue a damning indictment of
the company at hand.

What equifax is trying to avoid is a sizable majority of victories that would
in turn erode the foundation of the "identify theft" myth that the blame lies
with no one at best, or the customer at worst. Its why Equifax and other
companies often issue an appeal to their loss in small claims court as the
appeal process can include a lawyer. In the case of equifax theyre likely to
throw their VP level legal team on a plane and show up with a top brass firm
to contest your victory. Sure, it costs them in the millions to do this, but
costly battles like these prevent losing the war.

~~~
mrkstu
The problem is that doesn't scale. If this spreads, it'll quickly grow beyond
their ability to contain it.

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r-bryan
Not Equifax but here's a story about how another David once met his Goliath in
Small Claims Court. I wish I could find an online citation to confirm the
details :-(

In the 1970's, financial conglomerate Transamerica owned a credit card brand,
Diners Club I think. An ordinary citizen had a dispute with Diners Club and
was getting nowhere. He convinced a small-claims judge to place a lien on the
Transamerica building in S.F. That got their attention real quick because they
needed clear title to the real estate for some finance shuffling.

~~~
ceejayoz
It happens every once in a while.

Wells Fargo: [https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/17/patrick-rodgers-
fo...](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/17/patrick-rodgers-forecloses-
on-wells-fargo_n_824765.html)

BofA: [http://abcnews.go.com/Business/bank-america-florida-
foreclos...](http://abcnews.go.com/Business/bank-america-florida-foreclosed-
angry-homeowner-bofa/story?id=13775638)

Turns out it gets their attention pretty quick.

> On June 3, Nyerges, two sheriff's deputies and a moving truck showed up at
> the local BofA branch. The deputies informed the manager that he could
> either pay the Nyerges' legal fees— $2,500—or the movers would start taking
> away the bank's furniture and cash. The manager, after conferring with his
> superiors, gave the deputies a check.

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huebnerob
As a counterargument, here's a reddit thread about CA small claims case that
(possibly?) got appealed to a higher court:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/7h9tn2/i_sued_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/7h9tn2/i_sued_equifax_and_won_they_filed_an_appeal_whats/)

I haven't parsed through the updates so I don't know what the current status
is, but I remember the consensus being that this guy was fucked if Equifax
actually was able to drag this into a 'real' court. So, YMMV.

~~~
zitterbewegung
Also to note just because it may work for one or two times if they start to
see a possibility of a large impending loss they can allocate resources to
fight small claims cases also.

~~~
yborg
There is no way they win that if enough people do it. It's so much overhead
that the small plaintiff is at a substantial cost-benefit advantage even if
they send fresh grad associates by the busload to small claims courts around
the country. The Zerg Rush attack might be the best way to tackle this problem
... until of course Equifax gets Congress to pass some kind of legislation to
make it impossible to bring Equifax-related suits in Small Claims court.

~~~
onetimemanytime
I doubt "enough" people will do it. It takes some time to prepare and to go to
court. Let's say that 5000 people do it,(IMO, not realistic unless organized
by someone): 5,000 X $10,000 in damages = $50 million.

Say another $20m for My Cousin Vinny Attorney at Law used to dealing with such
cases, and it's not a company killing expense. That's assuming that all win.
You could say that word spreads, "he won $10k so you should file too," but I
doubt it.

~~~
220V_USKettle
You are only accounting for money, not time.

See, for example, what the Church of Scientology was able to do to the IRS.

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1024core
> In the process, his company started funding other people's small claims
> suits against Equifax, too. (Legalist pays lawyers in plaintiff's suits on
> an hourly basis, and takes a contingency fee if the case is successful.)

Wait: I thought the idea of small claims court was that you had to represent
yourself, and no lawyers were allowed to represent you?

~~~
dannygarcia
IANAL, but from what I understand in California, if a small claim is appealed
a lawyer may represent on either side.

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dwighttk
Based on the headline, I would have liked to hear about more than 1 person and
a slight mention of a few others.

~~~
rando444
On the other side of the coin, perhaps this will encourage others to follow
suit.

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s73v3r_
I truly hope this works, and that Equifax is forced to close down. They have
repeatedly demonstrated they do not deserve to continue being a company.

------
dang
Discussed at
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16217241](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16217241)
and
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16556000](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16556000).

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blisterpeanuts
In my experience, articles that end with _"...and It's Totally Brilliant.
Here's Why"_ tend to be shallow clickbait, and this one pretty much meets that
definition.

Obviously, not all 143 million victims of the Equifax breach are going to
prove damage. In fact, almost none of them can. Even if your identity is
stolen, can you prove where the thief got your info?

The best and most realistic action individuals can take is to freeze their
accounts at the big three credit companies. If you need a new credit card or
apartment lease, you can un-freeze it temporarily. Otherwise, turn it off; why
should it just be available to anyone who wants it, from year to year?

~~~
s73v3r_
But that costs money. Why on earth should I have to pay to ensure that these
corporate leeches will actually protect my data?

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eli
Fantastic bit of earned media for his startup.

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lr4444lr
This will hopefully spur the company to lobby congress for government
identification that is NOT the social security number, and in keeping with
modern standards of information security, so that they can limit damages.

~~~
cortesoft
Nah, they will just lobby congress to outlaw suing them.

~~~
RightMillennial
It's sad, but likely true. Binding arbitration anyone?

~~~
guntars
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't have a contract with Equifax so there's
no way binding arbitration can apply.

~~~
pixl97
"By putting information on this website you are agreeing to legal arbitration
with Equifax", heh I could see this in a TOS somewhere.

Also, more worryingly, there is a good chance that you've signed a contract
somewhere that says that in all the paperwork one does in their life.

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Slansitartop
Has anyone done this recently? Has Equifax upped their small claims court
game?

~~~
drwl
Not a lawyer and just spent the past hour reading into this. It depends on
what state you're in — in California, defendants of small claims can appeal in
the superior court (with lawyers) in what is called "de novo". r/legaladvice
says it is not recommended to go to small claims court.

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0xfeba
There was a post a while back about submitting your information and some
company would file the paperwork for you. I, foolishly, submitted my
information. I believe others did as well and I never heard anything of it.

Anyone recall the link?

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bencollier49
I wonder if this could be handled the same way as Payment Protection Insurance
fraud in the UK - companies specifically set up to find complainants and
litigate on their behalf in return for a cut.

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ChrisRR
The title would've been just as descriptive without "and it's totally
brilliant"

~~~
sctb
Agreed, we've updated the headline here.

