

Is envy a good thing? - marrone

A lot of Web 2.0 news circulates around who is getting bought by whom for how much. A lot of people see this and envision the same success for themselves. A lot of these same people are creating startups. <p>My question is this: is envy a good thing? I mean we are talking about the American Dream after all, the web is the new land of opportunity for many people, and a lot of us look to it as our chance to become rich and successful. But is this envy good or bad? Do we focus too much on getting acquired, rather than starting something you love and possibly being able to make a living off of it? The YC application even asks who you think would be the most likely to acquire you.<p>PG has said many times, that during his Viaweb days all he wanted to do was make something good. What are your thoughts?<p><p>P.S.
This blew me away a few months back. In my Mens Health magazine, the results to a survey on the average guy's fantasy profession:
1. Professional athlete, 2. Movie Star, 3. Internet start-up millionaire, 4. Rock and Roll star, 5. Playboy photographer ... in that order! 
Yes internet start-up made it ahead of taking pictures of hot naked women all day, and being a rock and roll singer! Oh how the times have changed...
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rrival
This is business. Envy is a distraction. Being able to see the paths someone
else took to get somewhere shouldn't serve as the primary inspiration or
impetus to pursue your ideas. Those paths are more than likely not
opportunities for your success.

If "some 24 year old kid from illinois just sold his <2 year old video site
for more than 1.5b!" gets you past the "wow maybe I could actually do this"
hurdle without inflating your ego to the point of forecasting your certain
success then it's been a positive thing for your personal progress.

Ymmv. Do it, fail, learn, repeat as necessary. Try not to let anecdotal
successes inspire visions of grandeur.

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staunch
Work for my entire adult life in forced mediocrity just to keep my head above
water or spend a small number of years working super hard to buy my freedom?
An easy decision for me.

I'd hack even if there was no money in it and I'd run a business to get rich
even if I couldn't do it hacking. I happen to be alive in a time when I'm
lucky enough to combine the two.

Envy may enter into my mind on occasion when I look at others who have
achieved what I'm aiming for, but most of the time it's just purely and hugely
inspiring.

~~~
davidw
> or spend a small number of years working super hard to buy my freedom? An
> easy decision for me.

I think that particular idea from PG's essay is... not quite right. It worked
for him, but plenty of people work super hard and end up with nothing after a
few years, so it's not really like it's an automatic benefit of doing as much
as you can in a given time frame.

~~~
staunch
It's hardly a PG specific idea that you can work harder for yourself and make
a lot more money. It's definitely not a sure thing that you'll succeed
quickly, but if you're wiling to try really hard until you do you have a very
good shot.

It worked for my grandfather as a farmer and my father as an artist. There's
no reason it shouldn't work for me with technology.

~~~
davidw
There's doubtless a relationship between work input and output, but what I
thought you were referring to was this:

<http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html>

"Economically, you can think of a startup as a way to compress your whole
working life into a few years. Instead of working at a low intensity for forty
years, you work as hard as you possibly can for four."

~~~
staunch
I do think that's a simplistic, but accurate, description of many successful
startups.

~~~
davidw
I think it's also accurate regarding many _un_ successful startups, and
therein lies the problem...

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Neoryder
I think as with most things it depends. Envy is closely related to pride , and
if envy/pride drives us to create beautiful products to always push outside
our comfort zones to make something beautiful/useful then I am all for it.,
But if with, I daresay most people ,envy drives them to do things beyond what
decent people do.

IN short figure out how envy affects you. Honestly assess yourself and act
accordingly.

~~~
binnymathews
I agree - if you are so passionate about an idea and its actually going to
take some kind of envy to go ahead and implement it, then so be it.

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palish
6\. To make cool things that people enjoy while not caring about money past a
house.

The only reason I'm pursuing financial security is to be free of the 9-5 so
that I can focus on creating interesting things.

~~~
aswanson
I can dig it.

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samson
I don't think it matters what your initial spark is to get you started.
Whether its envy or inspiration, as long as your doing it and enjoying it.

If months after getting your project up, and the first thing you can say to
someone who asks you why your doing it? And you respond like "for Google to
buy me", then maybe your envy has become a bad thing, or at least its made you
kinda shallow.

Otherwise there's nothing wrong with reading that youtube buyout article and
then choosing the next day to spend the day thinking of an idea you'd be happy
with pursuing over the next couple of months.

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jsnx
> My question is this: is envy a good thing?

Well, envy causes suffering, and suffering is bad; so no, envy is not good.
You can not want something so badly that you get it. It's true that chance
favors the prepared mind, but not always.

What can you do to be happy now? It's not that hard. There is honor and
pleasure in cutting an onion well.

------
steve
With every line of code I write, I stay focused on the day that I will achieve
greatness and crush all others. At this rate I'm set to completely burn out in
my mid 20's but I can take that risk.

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cglee
Good as in an objective, moral goodness, or good as in may make you more
money?

If it's the former, then no. If it's the latter, then maybe.

Most of us are working on projects that are amoral in nature, therefore, just
have fun along the way and don't hurt anyone.

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vlad
I was just lying down, thinking about it now and for the past few days. I like
the questions about ego that have been posted this week.

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eusman
there are sooo many issues and feelings to handle during a startup to have
time for a such destructful emotion like envyness

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rokhayakebe
Yes it is. It is actually a gr8 thing. Being envious is nothing but desiring
the same thing someone else has. Of course I want what the sergey and Larry
have. I certainly want what the zentel guys have. I also want what the
anywhere FM guys have. But it is not that I want their product or money, but I
want to be where they are. I certainly do not want them not to have what they
have. Now that would have been horrible. As long as you want to have the same
as the other guy without taking away from his success then it is ok to want
it. Actually I would advise you to wake up every morning and tell yourself I
am going to build a company that people want just like anywhere.FM and zenter
and delicious and flickr and all the other successes did. I can recall PG
saying _to us being successful mean getting the founders rich_

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DanielBMarkham
Two issues:

1) What motivates you? For some, it's desire. For others, it's fear. Envy is a
form of desire. Doing anything with all your soul -- pouring yourself into
something -- is your job in life as far as I'm concerned. Pick whatever works
for you. Whatever keeps you moving.

2) It also depends on what you envy. I envy people that have made a positive
difference in people's lives. Other things seem kind of stupid to me, like
money and fame. You can inherit money, or trick somebody out of it, so while
it's nice, it's more like the scoreboard on a basketball game. You don't play
basketball by looking at the scoreboard. Fame is too much a crap shoot. Plus
I'd rather have freedom to invent and innovate than having the world watching
my every move.

