
Remember broken Nexus telephony? This is how Google treats it's customers - evpuneq
https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=82949#c483
======
gabemart
In the link #440 reports that disabling "NuPlayer" fixed the issue. This
setting is in _Settings_ > _Developer options_ under "Media".

I've also found that NuPlayer plays unpredictable havoc with an audio playing
app I wrote that is currently on Google Play. Some users on Lollipop report
audio glitches, silence or weird bluetooth issues. Disabling NuPlayer fixes
these issues. I wish there was a way for me, as a developer, to force use of
the old AwesomePlayer system for my app in particular, but have no idea if
this is possible technically. I certainly haven't found a way to do it.

But what I find surprising is that NuPlayer is labelled "experimental" in
Developer options but is _enabled by default_. Isn't that a bit weird?

~~~
e40
Is NuPlayer a 5.0 only option? (My son's Nexus 5 isn't in front of me.) Using
4.4.4 here, with no plans to upgrade.

~~~
gabemart
Yes, as far as I'm aware the option to default to NuPlayer system-wide is only
present (and default) in 5.x

~~~
Kudos
It's not on by default and it's labeled "Experimental" on my Nexus 5 running
stock 5.0.1.

~~~
gabemart
That's interesting. I didn't realize that only some 5.x devices came with it
enabled by default. I can only speculate as to why some devices come with it
turned on and some don't, but I've definitely supported some Nexus 5 users on
5.x who had it turned on by default - they didn't even have developer options
enabled prior to contacting me.

------
bla2
The difference between android and iOS and windows phone is that android has
an open bug tracker, making issues like this a lot more visible. Maybe this
issue doesn't affect many people, or google determined that it only happens
for phones on a certain carrier and can't disclose that publicly. Sure, the
bug could have been closed with a friendlier message, but an open bug tracker
seems like a good thing to me

~~~
Spooky23
That difference applies to individuals and SMBs. With both Apple and
Microsoft, if you have an account team you have a channel to get things
escalated, and if you are a strategic customer, you'll get rapid attention.

Google doesn't really offer that, or if they do, the threshold to get that
attention is very high.

------
piquadrat
More than the fact that tickets like this get closed, I find the way that they
are closed infuriating. You would think that dozens of comments, many of them
with lots of details, would merit a more extensive answer than a single

> contact customer support.

How about "Thanks for all your comments. Unfortunately, this is the wrong
forum to report problems like this. Please contact the Nexus customer support
and let them know about the issues you are having."

~~~
aroch
Google _is_ "Nexus customer support", they just don't particularly care about
doing that job. Google drops support for their own developer phones faster
than Samsung and HTC do.

E: To address the initial downvoters: why don't you explain yourselves. How is
Google not responsible for supporting nexus devices? They're sold directly by
Google, they're produced for Google, and they're heavily marketed by Google.
Google provides the software and hardware support directly after purchase and
handles RMAs directly. Google depreciates Nexus device support in <18months.
Nexus One, Nexus S and Galaxy Nexus were all dropped about a year after
release, significant performance problems were never addressed. N7(2012) was
dropped early last year from official maintenance and the absolute shit NAND
quality was never addressed. Google has a history of not caring about proper
support for their Nexus devices.

HTC has released lollipop upgrades for devices that are >2 years old. Samsung
has also released lollipop upgrades for devices >2 years old.

~~~
maxerickson
I didn't vote your comment, but the issue tracker for AOSP is not Google
customer support.

(Let's not bother discussing whether it should be or whether it makes sense to
file customer support issues there in the face of lackluster support
elsewhere, those are mostly opinion battles)

~~~
aroch
The only other option is the Google Product Support forums[1], which are
mostly "staffed" by non-googler community moderators that offer no real
support. Googlers who are on the forums do their best to ignore actual problem
posts.

Regarding this particular issue on AOSP issue tracker, it is a software bug in
AOSP that kills voice calls. Filling an issue report would seem prudent.

[1]
[https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!forum/nexus](https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!forum/nexus)

~~~
magicalist
Huh? If you bought it from Google, just ask the play store customer support.
What other support would they mean by "contact customer support"?

~~~
aroch
Play Store support can't do anything about software bugs, at most they'll
offer to let you return the device.

------
furyg3
Of course there are multiple rationales for choosing a platform, but support
is certainly one of them.

A while ago someone made a nice graph of how good Apple/Google are at
maintaining OS support for their devices, it's pretty informative (although
I'd like to see a new one). [http://www.fidlee.com/android-support-vs-ios-
support/](http://www.fidlee.com/android-support-vs-ios-support/)

In this case the Nexus 4 is still officially supported by 5.0... but not being
able to call on a phone seems like unsupported to me.

~~~
dice
My wife has an N4 running 5.0.1 with no issues re calling, so if there is an
issue for these users it's an isolated one and not a systemic problem with all
N4s.

Most of the Android phones on the page you linked are not Google phones.
Whether or not they get updated is up to the manufacturers and carriers, not
Google. You'll note that the Nexus phones have more update support in general.

Whether providing major updates to a phone is a good thing is debatable. My
wife _hated_ getting the 5.0 update. She saw it as a major inconvience that
changed how her phone worked for no good reason. She would prefer to have the
phone work the same way for the entire time she owns it.

PS: 'Sup, fury?

~~~
GVIrish
> My wife has an N4 running 5.0.1 with no issues re calling, so if there is an
> issue for these users it's an isolated one and not a systemic problem with
> all N4s.

That's a bit of a leap to declare that the issue is an isolated one because
your wife is not having the problem. As it turns out, my wife had that exact
problem with her Nexus 4 on 5.0.1.

How widespread is the problem? Who knows. From my perspective it seems like
the 5.0 release has been a bit more problematic than previous major Android
upgrades.

~~~
dice
If there is one device which is not impacted then it is not a problem with all
devices. The problem is therefore isolated to a subset of all devices. Perhaps
that subset is the majority of all N4s, perhaps it is a small fraction. We
don't have enough data to say one way or another.

------
zumtar
If you have time (and the inclination) then you could report this to the
technical support department of the mobile telco you are using.

You won't get instant gratification that you would by using a bugtracker but
technical reports back to the vendor (in this case Google) do eventually get
sent upstream.

If enough people complain via Google's channels then the bug will be brought
up at higher levels _eventually_.

The other option is to tweet at senior Android guys and see if you get a
response.

Good luck.

~~~
arihant
You know, that is a valid option. When iPhone 4's telephone broke because of
the "grip of death" antenna issue, Steve Jobs himself came out, apologized,
offered a free bumper case to mitigate the issue. Compare that to this.

And the telco of Nexus is Google! Google just pointed to contact Google.

~~~
coda_
That's not quite how I remember the "grip of death" events doing down.

~~~
spyder
Yea, looks like the "You are holding it wrong" part was deliberately left out.

~~~
knd775
And with good reason. That was never said by Apple. They simply explained why
it happened (people's hands touching various parts and messing with the
antennae). The media created that whole "You're holding it wrong" thing.

------
cwyers
I wish Windows Phone was just like... 15% better in terms of app support.
Existence as an Android user just seems more and more self-hating as time goes
on, and it's clear that Google, the OEMs and the carriers are just not about
to cooperate to make the user experience any better. (I know, I know, there's
the iPhone, but I have a pathological hatred of iTunes for Windows, so that's
not really an option.)

~~~
cordite
There is also the problem where companies like Google refuse to acknowledge
platforms apart from theirs. The iOS apps are usually faulty, and Google DMCAs
any third party apps that talk to their services on the windows platform.

~~~
cwyers
I'm not sure there IS anyone like Google. Apple is all walled garden, but they
don't offer all that many services that make sense outside of their platform
anyway -- they don't offer anything like Maps or YouTube. (Well, I guess
iTunes, but... Apple gonna Apple.) Amazon is outright weird about supporting
non-Fire Android, but they've finally got Amazon Video available on other
Android platforms, and stuff like Kindle readers are available for any
platform imaginable. Amazon Video is also on the Xbox, Playstation, Wii and
Wii U, Roku and all kinds of smart TV/I guess smart BluRay devices. With the
weird exception of Xbox Video, Microsoft is pretty much falling all over
themselves to be on every platform -- Xbox Music, Xbox Smartglass, Office,
Outlook.com, OneNote... they're all on iOS and Android.

Google has a Google PLay app for Roku, at least. They offer some stuff on iOS,
but not as much as they do on their own platform. But they're not on Xbox.
They're not on Playstation. I can at least reason out why they don't want to
be on Windows Phone or such, but... Google isn't competing with the Xbox and
Playstation, and they're kidding themselves if they think they are. Why not a
Playstation app for movies?

~~~
magicalist
> _But they 're not on Xbox. They're not on Playstation_

There's a google-made youtube app on xboxes and playstations. I've never
actually tried buying a play store video so not exactly sure if it works on
the consoles themselves, but you can at least purchase them on a computer and
then watch them on the playstation (Kotaku did this for The Interview, for
instance[1])

[1] [http://kotaku.com/sonys-the-interview-can-now-be-seen-on-
xbo...](http://kotaku.com/sonys-the-interview-can-now-be-seen-on-xbox-but-not-
on-1674936343)

~~~
cwyers
Huh, interesting... I've actually used the YouTube app to watch YouTube videos
on the Xbox, but it never occurred to me to try it on Google Play movies.
Thanks.

------
pakled_engineer
I remember reading the google+ page of JBQ a while back where he openly
lamented having to do customer support bullshit all day because Google is
terribly organized without enough Android staff.

Also the stock lollipop Nexus4 image doesn't fix this, you still have to
reboot every so often to get voice back. It will only happen at the most
crucial times too given Murphy's law, like phoning a cab in the pouring rain
with only 5% battery left, and when I called a girl I met back and ended up
calling 4 times looking like a complete inept fool or harassing weirdo when
the voice first disappeared.

------
Kenji
I don't want to be a nitpick, but it's "its customers". Possessive its (for
some reason, the words google, possessive and customers together like that
make me feel uncomfortable). Not "Google treat it is customers".

~~~
classicsnoot
I don't mean to nitpick, but you used the term 'nitpick' incorrectly.

~~~
Kenji
How embarrassing. But thanks, I learned something.

------
fishnchips
Funny, I'd imagine a number of Googlers still have Nexus 4 corp phones. Just
curious how that sort of thing is handled internally. You get a new phone
issued?

------
pibefision
I've the same model (Nexus 4) and can confirm this issue. Can't believe
Google's response to this.

~~~
jbuzbee
My daughter and both have the Nexus 4 and I don't recall ever having this
problem. Suppose its a carrier issue? We're on TMobile.

~~~
ddlatham
My wife and I both have the Nexus 4 and are using TMobile. Her phone has this
problem. Mine does not.

------
tmaly
I am so glad that I hold off on the bleeding edge android. I am sticking with
4.4 till there is more adoption

~~~
baggachipz
It's funny, I actually upgraded to 5.0.1 stock from Cyanogen 11 (4.4.4)
because the phone portion stopped working in 4.4.4. Haven't had any issues
with calls since then. Now I'm worried that it'll suddenly go south again :(

Nexus 4 is clearly the red-headed stepchild in the Nexus family now. If there
was a newer Nexus that wasn't the size of an iPad, I'd upgrade; but there
isn't. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't like holding War and Peace against
my ear to talk on a phone.

~~~
morganvachon
> If there was a newer Nexus that wasn't the size of an iPad, I'd upgrade; but
> there isn't.

The Nexus 5 isn't that much bigger than the 4, and certainly isn't as big as
the Nexus 6. It's also not nearly as expensive as the 6.

Size comparison of the 5 and 4 (from the left, respectively):

[http://newlaunches.com/archives/google-
nexus-5-competition-c...](http://newlaunches.com/archives/google-
nexus-5-competition-comparison.php)

~~~
classicsnoot
I really like my N5, and i have been enjoying Lollipop as a user experience. I
use ADW launcher and keep my device very trim in terms of apps; the only
niggling issue currently is that TextSecure does not receive group texts from
iTards when WiFi is enabled, but they are aware of the problem so it is a m00t
point.

It bears consideration that the N5 is not carried by Verison [CDMA].

~~~
morganvachon
> It bears consideration that the N5 is not carried by Verison [CDMA].

The Nexus 5 does actually have a CDMA radio and works well on Sprint and its
MVNOs. The problem is that Verizon won't list it as an approved device in
their database, which means it won't provision for them. From what I
understand, it's a control issue, not a technical issue; they can't get
carrier exclusivity with an unlocked Nexus phone so they don't want it on
their network. In short, the problem is Verizon, not the radio in the phone.

~~~
classicsnoot
Thank you for explaining that. I am on Tmobz and their customer service has
been exceptional to date (which is why i left Verizon) but i miss the
connectivity as i travel in rural areas a fair amount.

Seeing as the hardware is there, is it theoretically possible to jigger the
channels (technical term) and use an N5 on Verizon?

~~~
morganvachon
I don't think approaching it from a radio standpoint would help, since it's
simply a matter of Verizon choosing deliberately not to provision the phone.

For extra coverage while traveling, you could order a SIM from Ting[1] (a
Sprint MVNO that I've used and really enjoyed), and switch to it for coverage
on Sprint's LTE network; they fully support the Nexus 5. It's not as expansive
as Verizon's network, but from my experience it tends to fill in the gaps left
by T-Mobile. I say that because my service is with Straight Talk on T-Mobile's
network, and my wife's phone is on Ting. Everywhere I don't have coverage, she
does, and vice versa.

Ting charges a base price of $6 per month per device, then charges for metered
usage. My wife uses about 800 MB of data, about 80 minutes of calls, and about
300 texts per month, and her bill comes in at under $40 per month. I won't
pretend to know your travel itinerary, but if all you do is order the SIM and
activate it once every few months, you're probably looking at less than $70
per year to have the convenience of extra coverage when you need it.

Or, you could forgo all of that and go back to Verizon on a Moto X, it's the
closest you'll get to a Nexus device on that network, but then you're back in
user-hostile support territory.

[1] [https://ting.com/shop/microsim](https://ting.com/shop/microsim)

------
debacle
I feel like Android 5 is a step back, UI-wise. One of those "change for the
sake of change" things. I don't see how a triangle, square, and circle are
more user friendly than a back button, a home button, and a tab button.

Chrome is also crashing constantly on 5.03 and the new keyboard is very very
bright at night.

Not a telephony issue, but I feel like 5.03 was a step back and I've actually
contemplated downgrading back to 4.* Is that an option for phone users, or
does the carrier push the updates?

Edit: It seems like every time I make a comment that might be slightly anti-
Google these days, it receives downvotes. That's concerning.

~~~
lukasm
The chrome is very annoying. Constant crash and New Tab takes a few seconds.
But the most annoying is tabs are treated like apps.

When I'm on tube and read Effective Go I need to scroll through all apps and
tabs to go back to it.

~~~
misaelm
Tabs being treated like apps is definitely annoying. However, you can fix that
by going to the chrome settings and turning off the "Merge tabs and apps"
switch.

Why "on" is the default setting is beyond me.

------
sean_the_geek
I have Nexus 4 and can confirm the issue. Never had it in the previous
version. So much for the Lollipop update

------
sapientiae
Heh. I've just been hunting for clues to fix my "Nexus 6 randomly reboots"
problem. Also quite common problem, and also radio silence from Google. Missed
several phone calls due to phone having secretly rebooted. Nice synchronicity.

------
thomaslutz
I will never buy a Nexus tablet or phone again. Still no Lollipop for the
razorg.

~~~
adlpz
Google is well know for their abysmal costumer support, but this is just the
last straw; a telephone that cannot make calls, not even emergency 911/112\.
And such issue is marked as "Priority-small" and dismissed.

It was good while it lasted, but it's clear now that Google not only cannot be
depended on for their software (see Google Reader), but also cannot be relied
on for our hardware needs.

At least they have the search thing...

~~~
josteink
> but it's clear now that Google not only cannot be depended on for their
> software (see Google Reader)

How about all versions of Android 4.3 and down? 60% of the Android user-base
is now without updates for critical security errors.

Their support is ridiculous.

~~~
whyaduck
I have a Nexus 4 on Lollipop and I was experiencing this issue too, and saw
the response. Last night I bought an iPhone.

~~~
SemiNormal
Good luck with your iOS 8 bluetooth connectivity issues. (other than that,
everything seems to work fine)

~~~
thomaslutz
I have no issues at all (but had issues with the 3GS a few years ago). Which
issues do you have?

------
tempVariable
I'm on CM11 with 4.4.4 and I need to reboot daily to get around this issue. CM
just posted an upgrade to CM12 nightly for Nexus 4 and I'm thinking of biting
the bullet and taking on that upgrade

------
alsutton010203
That bug tracker is for AOSP code issues, not issues related to any specific
device, so contacting customer support is the best route for the problem no
matter who sold you the device.

------
baggachipz
I'm going to cross the streams a bit here and bring up a major concern going
forward. Right now, "Project Ara" is Google's project to create a modular
phone that allows hot-swappable components in a totally customizable pocket
device. That is, you could have 3 cameras and no wifi in your device if that's
how you choose to put it together.

How in the hell do we expect the Android OS to actually make this anything but
a bug-laden shit show? They're clearly having a hard enough time making
Android work on their own narrow line of devices. The very idea of using this
same OS for a completely open-ended device seems laughable, at best.

~~~
classicsnoot
I was getting excited about the Spiral but this thread has decreased the wind
pressure in my sails considerably. Theoretically speaking, is any big mobile
device company capable of supporting a modular device that can compete with
the top of the line devices?

------
mutex023
I had the same problem on android 4.4.4, but on moto G. The solution given on
the Motorola customer support site was to wipe the cache partition. It worked.

------
rasz_pl
What other response did you expect from Google employee? Google doesnt hire
low level customer support people, google hires top of the line, few hours in
front of white board interview coders, people with multiple phd's and industry
veterans. I bet they dont even have dedicated support staff, just 200K a year
programmers assigned to bugtracker having to divide their time between actual
work and asking 'have you tried turning it off and on again'. Its BENEATH
those people to interact with rabble.

and here we have a result of this broken system.

~~~
UhUhUhUh
And unlike hard- and software, such a broken system can last a very long time.
There's an old French joke about "polytehcnician" (i.e graduate from
Polytechnique, a top-level post graduate institution). What's the difference
between a train and a polytechinician? When the train gets off the tracks it
stops.

------
poushkarr
Had to downgrade because of the issue. Can't believe how Google behaves in
this situation. My next phone is definitely not a Nexus.

------
mutex023
I have the same problem on 4.4.4, but in moto G. The solution that worked was
to wipe the cache partition and reboot.

------
tomphoolery
Google doesn't even have "customer support"!

------
patentAbuse
This is a terrible precedent Google is setting, and it is going to cause
considerable harm if it gains traction: It's one thing to stop upgrading
"older" devices, but quite another to actually break critical, regulated
functionality. The Google employee who decided this was a "small" issue
apparently doesn't realize that the inoperation of basic voice functionality
of cellular devices is the fuel for fat, deserved lawsuits.

I have a Nexus 5, have no interest in the Nexus 6, and could easily think "Oh
well...upgrade", but as the old saying goes -- first they abandoned the Nexus
4, and I didn't speak up...

~~~
Touche
I think they are starting to regret the Nexus line as they don't make any
money off of it and users have high expectations. You can tell, imo, that they
are looking to just slowly kill it off.

~~~
patentAbuse
The Nexus line really saved Android -- it was always the excuse (the best word
I can think of) when other devices had update, performance, or security
issues. "Well it isn't Android, it's Samsung/HTC/Motorola/Sony/etc, because my
Nexus...". It was a critical line.

Google may have killed the Nexus line by making the 9 and 6 so uncompelling,
but I doubt it was intentional. They're just a company that has a chronic
difficulty prioritizing customer service. Further I don't really think it's
"high expectations" to demand that voice functionality works (again, this
stuff gets you in serious trouble with regulators. If this were raised to the
FTC and/or CRTC, you can bet Google would find a fix extremely quickly).

------
fridek
This is your second submission of it after
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8838578](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8838578)

I agree this may haven't been resolved nicely, but hidden extrapolation from a
few employees to the whole company is not cool on your side either. There are
people in there, working their butts off to make one of the largest open
source projects better.

~~~
arihant
There is also another employee who marked a disfunctional telephony on a phone
as "Priority-small."

I think we're seeing a pattern here.

~~~
canthonytucci
I think they're handling this poorly and that for a company as big and rich as
google, "we only have so many people fixing Android 5 bugs." is a pretty weak
excuse.

That said, I bet google knows better than we do how many active Nexus 4 users
are still out there, my suspicions is - not many.

Here's my guess - they prioritize bugs not just on severity but also based on
number of users impacted, and who those users are (in this case, people who
are still using a phone that was discontinued over a year ago, have manually
updated their phones and then reported a bug in the AOSP tracker. a
demographic I suspect is going to be very hard to satisfy no matter what). I'm
guessing they hope that people will take this problem to the carrier they
bought it from (if they got it from someone besides google), contact google
play store customer support (who have always been helpful in my experience),
downgrade, or just move on and buy a more recent phone.

