
What Was Once Hailed as First U.S. Offshore Wind Farm Is No More - protomyth
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-01/cape-wind-developer-terminates-project-opposed-by-kennedys-koch
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DubiousPusher
Man, sometimes I feel like the Kennedys are America's most hypocritical
family.

Edit: BTW, I go by wind farms all the time on my way through beautiful Cle
Elum Washington and they do not spoil the view in the slightest.

They are not nearly as jarring as the ugly houses people are building in the
upper Madison County in Montana where my family lives.

~~~
vinay427
> Man, sometimes I feel like the Kennedys are America's most hypocritical
> family.

I don't know what this means. Are you referring to actions taken by other
Kennedy family members? If so, why should the actions of one's relatives fall
exactly in line with one's own legacy, lest their family be deemed
hypocritical? That seems like an awfully high bar that presupposes the family
is a single moral and ethical unit.

~~~
melling
How about when Ted Kennedy stopped Richard Nixon’s healthcare plan.

[https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/201...](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2012/06/22/stockman/bvg57mguQxOVpZMmB1Mg2N/amp.html)

~~~
icebraining
You mean, when Nixon introduced a much weaker healthcare bill right after
Kennedy had managed to broker a bipartisan bill proposing a real reform? I
don't see anything hypocritical about refusing to support a bill designed to
keep the current broken system running and squash actual reform.

At least, that's how it looks to me as a complete outsider.

~~~
melling
well, that’s not what the article says that I posted:

“Kennedy said later that walking away from that deal was one of the biggest
mistakes of his life.”

“Over time, Kennedy realized his own plan couldn’t succeed. Opposition from
the insurance companies was too great. So Kennedy dispatched his staffers to
meet secretly with Nixon’s people to broker a compromise. Kennedy came close
to backing Nixon’s plan, but turned away at the last minute, under pressure
from the unions. Then Watergate hit and took Nixon down.”

~~~
icebraining
I read that, and I don't think it contradicts my view.

Kennedy introduces a real reform bill; Nixon introduces a weak, "compromise"
bill so the opponents of real reform (like the insurance companies) can use to
oppose it while avoiding the wrath of the people who understand the status quo
is terrible, by looking like they also want changes. Kennedy, defeated, judges
whether accepting Nixon's bill - despite its intent - is still worth it, or
whether the unions are right that it imposes too great of a cost on employees
(25% of premiums). He makes a decision, then later he regrets it.

------
jpao79
Kind of reminds of this one:

[https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-fracking-
tillerson/ex...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-fracking-
tillerson/exxon-mobil-ceo-welcomes-fracking-but-not-water-tower-in-his-
backyard-idUSBREA1P24O20140226)

Tillerson, former Republican heavyweight Dick Armey and other residents of a
ranch-filled suburb of Bartonville north of Dallas filed suit in 2012 seeking
to block construction of the 160-foot-tall (49-meter-tall) water tower,
arguing it would be an eyesore.

The suit, filed in Denton County District Court, also noted that the tower
could encourage the town of Bartonville to sell “water to oil and gas
explorers for fracking shale formations leading to traffic with heavy
trucks... creating a noise nuisance and traffic hazards.”

------
aacook
A bit of a bummer to hear, especially when Massachusetts is shutting down its
only nuclear power plan in 2019. The plant produces the vast majority of the
State's renewable energy and about 15% of its total power. It doesn't sound
like there are real replacements lined up.

~~~
frede
How does a nuclear plant produce renewable energy?

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
I just assumed they mean _clean energy_.

~~~
joss82
I just assumed that they mean carbon-poor electricity.

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nerdponx
This is some really flagrant and kind of reprehensible NIMBYism.

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api_or_ipa
I just don't get all the arguments that say wind farms are ugly. I just don't.

~~~
corysama
Some friends and I visited an wind farm just as a place to fly a kite. The
area was rolling green hills, a few cows and these massive, clean, white
towers up into the sky. It honestly struct me as a scene from an idyllic
future sci-fi movie. It was like walking around in someone’s CG desktop
background.

~~~
api_or_ipa
In my hometown we built a wind turbine on the top of a mountain that overlooks
the city. On clear days you can see the turbine poking out on top of the
mountain and it looks absolutely gorgeous, like we're an advanced species
intelligently harvesting energy from the planet. It's breathtaking in a way
that's hard to describe.

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adventured
That wind farm could have eventually provided enough power for a million
people. As much as the specific loss of renewable energy is detrimental in
this case, the loss of another powerful demonstration in the US of offshore
wind farm potential is probably just as great.

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Frogolocalypse
America has the best leadership money can buy.

------
Thriptic
Are there areas off the coast of Massachusetts where this style of offshore
wind farm can be implemented that aren't proximal to the most popular and
picturesque vacation destinations in the area? I'm sure most people can get
behind the idea of offshore wind but this wasn't the best thought out location
for this project.

~~~
cannonedhamster
This has nothing to do with the landscape. I've driven by the pilot windmills.
You can barely see them. This is about filthy rich white hypocrites throwing a
tantrum over nothing. Most people in Massachusetts (or America for that
matter) would probably have a hard time affording to vacation anywhere near
these things.

~~~
ams6110
What does their being white have to do with it?

~~~
cannonedhamster
That's literally almost all you'll find on either of the islands, to the point
that it sticks out if there's a POC there. I'm a white upper middle class guy
myself, but let's call a spade a spade. They tried to build this in the rich
white guy's back yard and they didn't like it.

Edit: These are also the same people that claim to be progressives and for the
POC(I'm liberal) in politics but when it comes to actually doing something
that would have cleaner air, their first reaction is to NIMBY it. These are
exactly what these people are. It's a definition.

~~~
Tade0
As a relatively poor, white eastern European I feel somewhat offended that I'm
thrown in the same bin as these people solely because of something over which
I have no control - the tone of my skin.

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justincormack
By comparison, the UK has over 11 gigawatts of offshore wind capacity...

~~~
ptaipale
According to [0] it was 15 gigawatts in 2016 Q3. Very nice wind at the British
isles.

That's nominal capacity, rate of generation appears to be 24 % of nominal;
what can effectively be utilized is then below that.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_the_United_Kingd...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_the_United_Kingdom)

~~~
raverbashing
Around 2.3GW now by wind
[http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/](http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/)

It is weather dependant but that number grows depending on the day

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mc32
It died at the hands of The Kennedys and the Kochs. An unholy alliance of
progressives and conservatives sunk the project. Here we see that energy
policy trumps politics when it comes into conflict with people's personal
interests.

On the other hand, the industry learned so long as the turbines are out of
sight, they are out of the NYMBY's minds.

~~~
leggomylibro
It is disgusting that any individual has that sort of power.

Being in politics is supposed to mean being a public _servant._

Well okay, how much power do you think Senators give their servants? They
probably don't think of their housekeepers/sitters/chefs/etc's opinions at
all. If their dog-walker objects to the dog that they get, what's going to
happen? The dog sure isn't going to change.

~~~
ajmurmann
We call it "servant", but in fact still treat them like royalty. We never
fully made the transition from royalty to servant. Why do so many governments
put their high officials up in special house/palaces? We don't do that for any
other jobs. It would be much healthier to treat elections like a shared effort
to hire someone to do a job.

~~~
leggomylibro
Terry Pratchett has a lot of good aphorisms, but one that stuck with me is
some etymology from a cop and a Machiavellian dictator:

> "It's all for the good of the city, sir. Do you know where the word
> 'policeman' comes from? It means 'man of the city', sir. From the old word
> _polis._ "

> ...

> "You're a man interested in words, captain. I'd just invite you to consider
> something your predecessor never fully grasped."

> "Sir?"

> "Have you ever wondered where the word 'politician' comes from?" Said the
> Patrician.

These roles have a very specific purpose, and that purpose is service. They've
veered sharply away from it, but that is still their job. Also, I think in
real life the root is 'politia' or 'politika' or something, but the definition
is similar.

And another word from that book: 'polite' apparently came from 'behavior
befitting someone living in a city.' I guess social norms maybe became more
important with the density?

~~~
ajmurmann
This is all from ancient Greek where the city ("polis") was the state.

These terms were thus all created in the first democracy we know of. However,
that was then followed by millennia of monarchies. Modern democracies came
into existence in an environment where monarchies were still the norm and it
shows. I find it reminiscent of the fact that Christians celebrate Christmas
which is supposedly a Christian holiday by following all kinds of pagan
rituals like the entire Christmas tree thing.

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dsfyu404ed
Good. It was a corrupt boondoggle operation that was going to cost everyone a
heck of a lot of money.

And I say this as someone who would like to see global warming hurry up and
wash eastern MA into the Atlantic ocean.

Also, it takes a special kind of stupid to think you can take on rich and very
well connected people and win.

>Lawsuits piled up, delaying the project. Cape Wind missed a series of
contractual milestones, prompting National Grid Plc and Northeast Utilities’
NSTAR unit to cancel power-purchase agreements in early 2015. At the time,
analysts declared the project all but dead.

I forget, is that the one where people were supposed to pay more than the
already sky-high electricity rates for Locally Grown(TM) Non GMO(TM) Green(TM)
energy or was that a different one?

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nova22033
[http://www.cc.com/video-clips/nmuqcf/the-daily-show-with-
jon...](http://www.cc.com/video-clips/nmuqcf/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-
jason-jones-180---nantucket)

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johnchristopher
I automatically closed the tab when the video started playing automatically.

~~~
eighthnate
Same here. Not sure why you are being downvoted.

~~~
johnchristopher
Well, my comment isn't adding anything useful to the conversation, hence the
downvote. I still wanted to point it out though :).

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jmclnx
Have any of you lived near a wind farm ? A few years ago I camped near one
that had 5 wind mills, and it was 7 miles (11 k?) away, It was like I was
sleeping with the loudest snorer you can imagine. I slept very little.

Maybe when located out in the ocean the sound would blend, but if on land I
would not want one anywhere near where I live.

Anyway I heard they are making great strides with solar and even tidal power,
I doubt those will keep you awake.

~~~
masklinn
> Have any of you lived near a wind farm ? A few years ago I camped near one
> that had 5 wind mills, and it was 7 miles (11 k?) away, It was like I was
> sleeping with the loudest snorer you can imagine. I slept very little.

That really surprises me.

I've got a dozen turbines less than 10km away literally facing my windows (I
can see them unless it's really foggy) and I never heard them, despite having
real trouble sleeping when there's any sort of noise. The turbines are half a
klick from a small town too, they'd have been burned down a long time ago if
they could be heard from 10.

~~~
jmclnx
> That really surprises me.

well maybe it was the terrain, it is a mountainous and maybe the shape caused
come kind of reverb. I know I was warned by my camping neighbors about the
sound and I thought "how bad can it be".

But it was a rough night with little sleep due to the sound.

------
tomohawk
They're putting these windmills all over West Virginia - its a shame really.
They really spoil the views and kill lots of birds. It's another case that
shows the difference between what the little people have to deal with vs the
elites.

~~~
matthewmacleod
I was hoping this was a parody, but I fear it’s not.

The impact on views of wind turbines is minimal. Even if you don’t like ‘em,
I’m sure you’ll acknowledge that some minor inconvenience is better than long-
term environmental damage.

Also, wind turbines dont really do that much damage to bird populations:
[https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-
scienc...](https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/wind-
turbine-kill-birds.htm)

~~~
tomohawk
Not everyone agrees with you:

[http://savetheeaglesinternational.org/new/us-windfarms-
kill-...](http://savetheeaglesinternational.org/new/us-windfarms-
kill-10-20-times-more-than-previously-thought.html)

My point was that the elites of Martha's Vineyard were able to kill the
project, and at least part of that was based on what they look like. Windmills
in the distant ocean view are much less impacting of views than ones
prominently arrayed across ridge lines.

It appears there's one rule for little people and other for elites.

