
Why Entrepreneurs Can't Sleep - ddwoodworth
http://www.humbledmba.com/why-entrepreneurs-cant-sleep
======
achompas
You'll see links to F.lux [0] occasionally on HN, but I can't overstate how
F.lux has changed my life.

Before F.lux, my laptop would suck me in. I would browse HN, Metafilter, and
Twitter even as my eyes stung and my head felt like a bag of sand. Eventually
I would go to bed at 3am, confused about how time flew by so quickly.

The next morning was always rough. Some days I would wake up at 8am and arrive
at work on time with a headache. Sometimes I would jump up at a quarter to
nine, arrive an hour late, and chug two tall cups of coffee before noon. I'm
embarrassed to say that I called in sick a few times because I was too
exhausted to get out of bed. This was a terrible existence.

With F.lux I feel myself getting sleepy. After a certain hour, my body kills
any running mental processes and orders me to sleep. I always get sunlight and
exercise, but eliminating blue light in this controlled experiment (with F.lux
and a Kindle for late-night reading) has dramatically improved my quality of
sleep.

My only problem with F.lux is that I can't find the "Donate" link on their
page.

[0] <http://stereopsis.com/flux/>

~~~
baddox
As I understand it, F.lux works because your body uses light cues to determine
the rate of melatonin production. Essentially: less light (or warmer light) =>
more melatonin production => sleepiness.

Rather than mess around with your monitors' color balance (which I find
extremely annoying), I just skip the first step and pop an over the counter
melatonin pill. It works splendidly, doesn't seem to be habit forming (been
using it on and off for 5 years; it basically got me through the last 2 years
of college), and doesn't seem to have any adverse side effects other than more
vivid dreams (or, equivalently, better recollection of dreams).

~~~
achompas
I tried melatonin a few times and experienced some very groggy mornings. I
also experienced a few nights where I _could not sleep_ after taking a 3mg
tab.

For those considering it, let me suggest a very small dose (0.5-0.75 mg, or
1/4th of a tablet) and 9-10 hours to try it out. Don't pop one of these at 2am
and expect to feel great the next day.

~~~
baddox
Are your groggy mornings after only sleeping a few hours? I only use melatonin
if I am able to get at least 7 hours of sleep, or maybe 6.5 in a pinch, but
with or without melatonin I'll be groggy in the morning with less than 6.5
hours of sleep. I take 1mg doses, although I initially took 3mg and didn't
notice a difference. This study seems to show that 3mg is overkill, and that
.3mg is probably sufficient:

<http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/86/10/4727>

~~~
achompas
I had one night of hitting the sack at 10am after taking 3mg and not sleeping
at all (maybe 4am?). The other night I took 3mg 8-9 hours before waking up and
I still felt groggy.

I wouldn't deter people from melatonin but they should start with very small
doses.

------
EGreg
I have thought about this before, and I can confidently trace it back to two
causes in my own life.

1) This was happening even when I was a developer and not just an
entrepreneur. It is because when you are working on a problem, you want to
reach a "save state" before going away. So you can pick up where you left off
in the morning. Sometimes you think the "save state" is just an hour away and
it turns out to be 3 hours or more. Basically you have the context in your
head NOW and it's annoying to have to serialize it into something and
unserialize it later. You want to at least finish a subtask. As a result, the
"bedtime" of a developer is indefinite, unlike in 9-5 careers where you can
clock out and stop thinking about things.

For entrepreneurs, this is a smaller problem, but for developer-entrepreneurs,
it is a combined problem. The entrepreneur might be puzzle-solving at night as
well, and doesn't want to have to serialize/unserialize in some arbitrary
state. Also their brain gets used to problem solving and can't stop. Kind of
like this: <http://xkcd.com/356/>

2) Now, the second reason is that we are probably young, in our 20s or early
30s. As a result, we came out of a college environment and late night partying
is important to younger people. Late night anything, because one again, that
is the time that young people have for themselves and they don't want to put a
definite curfew on it. You can be more irresponsible earlier in life, drinking
and socializing until late. In addition, many young people have to study in
college and aren't gonna get fired if they don't show up at 8 AM to work, so
once again we have this "I don't want to put this book down until I've
finished the chapter" thing.

As you get older and have a family, if you have to wake up early, then your
habits will change.

I also have a theory that young people have ALWAYS been more nocturnal than
their elders, who become morning people at 70 :)

------
corin_
I can't speak for everyone, but for some it's a case of never being able to
get your brain to shut down properly from a work point of view, which can be
both the reason for sleep problems and the reason for success.

My current boss summed it up once when he said "the reason I'm always working
outside hours [he works most evenings, will often get an email from him at
3am, most days a call sometime between 8pm and midnight - and this isn't some
young startup hacker, he's a successful CEO of 10 years] is that I'm afraid of
missing any opportunities".

Another way of putting that is _Carpe Diem_ , one of my favourite quotes.

I'm the same, no matter what I'm doing - including trying to get to sleep -
thoughts keep cropping up. Should we be talking to Company X. Do we need to
hire Person Y. Why haven't we created Product Z.

~~~
dgallagher
This might sound a little weird, but try putting an large ice-pack on your
head while you're lying in bed, ready to go to sleep:

[http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/17/tip-for-insomniacs-
coo...](http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/17/tip-for-insomniacs-cool-your-
head-to-fall-asleep/)

I've done it a few times and after about 10 minutes, any racing-thoughts in my
brain dissipate, and it becomes much easier to go to sleep.

~~~
corin_
I don't know if it's necessarily a good thing to get rid of it.

Maybe a better balance is needed, but I think there's a real link with the
kind of person who can't sleep for thinking of work, and success in what they
are doing.

------
araneae
Theory 5: Hackers are always on their devices so they experience the effects
of inappropriate light at night to a greater extent.

~~~
rjd
First thing is nope I had the problems like his before I had a computer. Had
it when I was a kid and right though out high school, right now I'm staying
with my parents while I focus on some products, and am waking around 10am
again, thats my naturally sleep pattern 2am-10am.

But I'll agree the computer CAN makes it worse ... because even as the guy
mentioned controlling light can be critical. On the flip side it can make it
easier to sleep by mentally tiring you, if you have a problem you have to test
it and see. Both are true for me.

As for what he said about lighting 100% agree with it. I summed it up the
other day here talking about how I created a fake sun rise in my room :
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2990669> what I didn't mention was I hid
every single light source. My room was pitch black, I rewired my body clock by
controlling the light.

~~~
georgieporgie
_I had the problems like his before I had a computer_

Did you watch a lot of television?

~~~
rjd
Nope not really, I read a lot of books. I can remember one day buying Red
Dwarf:Better Than Life, and finishing it overnight and maybe getting an hour
or twos sleep.

I grew up in a rural community and wasn't really interested in TV or
technology really. I didn't even learn to program till was I was 22 (only
after I had serious sporting accident where I had broken arms and legs and had
to drop out of art school). Although I'll admit I did learn to write BASIC on
school computers when I was 10 or so, just seemed to be a natural at
programming.

I've had assorts of weird sleeps things over the years, for ages I had night
terrors but they seem to have gone away and been replaced with a suffocation
effect. I'll wake up gasping for breathe in the middle of the night now. The
night terrors went away as soon as I understood what was going on, I guess the
suffocation maybe related but without the panic aspects.

~~~
georgieporgie
_The night terrors went away as soon as I understood what was going on, I
guess the suffocation maybe related but without the panic aspects._

Yeah, those are still night terrors. I have the suffocation thing once in a
great while (usually while napping on a hot day), and occasionally wake up
convinced there is a rat walking on the ceiling, or -- when camping --
mosquitoes all over the interior of my tent ceiling. After a couple of
seconds, I realize I'm so nearsighted that there is no way I could possibly
make out a mosquito on the ceiling of my tent. :-)

Anyway, I've generally tended toward peak activity in the late evening, and
tend toward a 2am - 10am sleep schedule (as evidenced by it being 1:52am now).
That said, in the periods where I _do_ get myself consistently to sleep by
midnight, I feel _much_ better all day, every day.

I've found that I need about an hour of intense exercise per day, no caffeine
after around 5pm, and, of course, the actual self-discipline to get started on
going to bed by 11pm. 300mcg of melatonin per night helps me stay more deeply
asleep, and it doesn't cause the body to build a tolerance.

Oh, and eating dinner at a 'normal' hour (5 - 7pm) makes a _huge_ difference
in my ability to fall asleep earlier.

------
mapster
in 20 years we will look back at our "work" and not see a "life" around it. I
burn the midnight oil and watch the sun come up once a week, but turning off
the desk lamp at 5pm to engage in life is critical for me to be recharged for
the next days' opportunities and challenges.

------
zyb09
I was think about getting one of these yellow tinted glasses instead of a
screen filter (f.lux isn't enough for me). Anyone has experience with them?
(i.e. something like this: [http://www.amazon.com/GUNNAR-Gaming-Eyewear-
Mercury-Frame/dp...](http://www.amazon.com/GUNNAR-Gaming-Eyewear-Mercury-
Frame/dp/B004BUMICS/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1316534750&sr=8-3))

------
MatthewB
I keep hearing about how blue light in the morning helps you wake up and have
more energy throughout the day.

Does anyone have experience with this product: [http://www.amazon.com/Philips-
goLITE-BLU-Therapy-Device/dp/B...](http://www.amazon.com/Philips-goLITE-BLU-
Therapy-Device/dp/B001I45XL8)

~~~
pstuart
I've looked at that as well, but one of the reviews scared me away:
[http://www.amazon.com/review/R33CBCI3HRGKDJ/ref=cm_srch_res_...](http://www.amazon.com/review/R33CBCI3HRGKDJ/ref=cm_srch_res_rtr_alt_3)

Instead I'm going for exposure to any light in the morning and breaking the
fast with a small snack.

~~~
gwillen
Googling for the quoted text in the review reveals that the original source
appears to be the website of a competing product. I cannot find the article in
Science which is supposedly referenced but not cited.

------
ddwoodworth
Looks like there has been significant research on chronotype (A person's
preference for daytime vs. nighttime activities). One study showed "About 1/10
people are actually hard-wired... to be early risers" and "2/10 people are
what are known as night owls". So there maybe some proof to your genetics
theory. People maybe hardwired to reach peak functionality at different times.

[http://www.kwollity.com/2010/03/are-you-a-late-or-early-
chro...](http://www.kwollity.com/2010/03/are-you-a-late-or-early-chronotype/)
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronotype>
<http://www.roundtheclocksystems.com/methods5_ctest.html>

~~~
FrojoS
Which would make sense in evolutionary terms. You want someone in your group
to be awake at night as a watch. Its also very helpful to have very early
morning risers, to prepare stuff for the group.

~~~
cma
group selection?

------
mikeleeorg
I've always been a night owl (fortunately, not DSPS) with my most productive
hours and highest energy late into the evening. This usually led me to wake up
late too, as you'd expect.

In the last few months, however, I've found myself waking up early too -
because I am so excited about what I am working on. Sometimes, I'll try to
sleep in. All that leads me to do is just lie there, thinking about all the
stuff I could be doing instead.

What I perhaps ought to do is take a siesta in the afternoon to balance out
this lack of sleep. I haven't done that yet though...

------
geoffw8
(Web) Entrepreneurs don't sleep because they're proficient with the internet.
Not only do you get into a routine of not going to sleep, but your also not
really trying to. I know, this was me!

Now I try to unwind, I have to make conscious decision to down tools and watch
the TV, set the timer. I have a time when I know I should really have my head
down.

On the flip-side, 2-3 years ago - I was up till 6-7am, waking at 12/1pm and
repeating all over again. After all, I had the internet (read: unlimited stuff
to look at) and nothing to get up for.

------
gte910h
Most entrepreneurs have horrible sleep hygiene is why most of them can't
sleep.

That doesn't mean you should shift over to waking up at 6am or anything, but
it is something learnable, just like shaving or keeping a child clean.

Here is a link of getting your sleep hygiene under control I wrote a bit back:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2453370>

------
dylanhassinger
I think light sensitivity can also play a role in this. I find direct sunlight
uncomfortable, especially in summer and winter (sun reflecting off the snow).
As soon as evening begins my brain fires into gear. I think other Asperger's
types might struggle w this too, without even realizing it.

A friend recently recommended using sunglasses more, which I'm going to try
out. Makes sense

Also +1 for Flux, it's great.

------
littlegiantcap
Interestingly enough my Uncle is the same way. He is an entrepreneur although,
his business has absolutely nothing to do with the tech industry, so it's not
a problem unique to hackers, but to startups. Along with my own experience, my
startup is in tech field, of trying to get a startup up and running I would
have to say number 4 is probably, at least in my and my uncle's case, the most
probable cause of insomnia. The later it gets the less texts I get, the less
emails to answer, my friends are all asleep, and I feel like I can finally get
some work done.

------
watmough
When I was working a full-time job, I found I could be super productive
between 7am and 9am before most other people got in, then I wouldn't really
get a huge amount done beyond supervisory and mentoring type work until 8pm or
so when I could restart working.

Currently, on my own stuff, I work about 11pm to 3 or 4am which has been super
productive but somewhat tiring. The huge benefit is almost complete peace and
quiet, which really helps me focus.

------
brackin
I'm in High School and regularly go to bed later than 3 because of the points
you raised. F.lux has also made my life much better. I love to wake up early,
that's my other problem. I hate to sleep in and waste time.

------
Tichy
#2 is definitely a factor for me - regular hours never worked well for me.

