

Tesla sales 'misleading' says Audi blog post - arepb
http://www.audiusanews.com/progress/blog.do;jsessionid=1CB391A6F1EDD976E0F71A0199B241E0?id=254&p=entry

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tptacek
They're right, of course, but I'm not sure this is a great marketing move,
because it dignifies the metric Tesla has chosen as their strongest. The fact
that Tesla can even mount an argument that they're in a horse race with Audi,
let alone outselling them, is a gigantic coup for a car company that's just a
few years old.

~~~
ChuckMcM
This was what I was thinking, which basically said this was a big mistake on
Audi's part. Rather than instill doubt in me that Tesla is an untested company
I came away feeling better about them as an actual competitor to the likes of
Audi. Time will tell of course.

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byoung2
The fact that Audi had to write this says that they feel threatened. And while
Tesla does only sell one model at a time, they are able to produce cheaper
models and sell more of them. As for the question posed by USA Today:

 _There are questions, too, about whether it can keep its order books full, or
whether the number of people who crave electric cars is limited._

With the new financing offer, a Tesla is within reach for many people, but I
think we'll see a tipping point once they can get below $50k.

~~~
beat
Shorter Audi: Tesla may be outselling us at our flagship range, but since they
don't sell cars that cost half as much, we're better, and we're not going to
talk about what happens when they start selling cars that cost half as much...

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michaelfeathers
For kicks, re-read the article as something written 4+ years ago substituting
"Apple" for "Tesla" and any other cellphone manufacturer for "Audi."

 _“Tesla has to show it can be consistently profitable with a single product
that is priced so high that most buyers can’t afford it,”_

Indeed.

~~~
adestefan
They are in no way comparable.

I make a pretty damn good living and can easily afford a $400-$500 phone, but
there is no way I'll be buying a $60,000 car from either Tesla or Audi.

~~~
simonh
There are people who do buy $60k cars. It's a market that actually exists,
just as there was a market for $500+ phones before the iPhone, which at it's
introduction actually wasn't the most expensive phone on the market. Just
because you're not part of the market for a car in that range is no more
relevant than the fact there are plenty of people who would, or could never
pay $500+ for a phone is to the success of Apple.

~~~
ianstormtaylor
Another way to think about it is that if someone told me I would be paying
$500 for a phone before the iPhone came out I probably would have laughed at
them. In fact, before the iPhone I don't think anyone in my family ever bought
a phone that was more expensive than the 1 cent models that came with
contracts. Now we buy the $200 models that come with contracts.

------
beat
Now here's an interesting question, or maybe some interrelated questions.
First, will Tesla be able to manufacture profitably in the sub-$50k range
(competing with the Audi/BMW/MB low end), with a car that is range-comparable
to the S? In other words, can they build a genuinely useful electric
drivetrain for about the same price as an internal combustion drivetrain?

Next, as they start spinning up long-term reliability figures (real people
driving real Teslas in real conditions for the 100k+ miles we expect today),
will costs remain comparable?

Third, how long will it take Audi/BMW/Lexus/etc to develop fully electric cars
of their own that are performance-comparable and compatible with whatever
public charging systems start to develop?

~~~
tomkarlo
Or, how long until one of them buys Tesla and combines its expertise with
their existing infrastructure for mass production?

~~~
r00fus
I'm pretty smart finance folks have learned from GOOG stock structuring and
the like to prevent LBOs/corporate takeover threats. I'm reasonably sure some
of them work for Tesla.

~~~
tomkarlo
Why would you assume it would be hostile? Ultimately either someone's going to
buy Tesla, or Tesla's going to buy a legacy automaker that's in trouble.
Setting aside dealership issues in the US, it doesn't make sense to rebuild an
entire worldwide distribution system from scratch when the innovation is the
car, primarily. Either that, or license the Tesla tech to a major car
manufacturer and let them serve the downmarket while protecting the Tesla
brand as high-end and innovative. I don't think Tesla wants to become Honda.

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smackfu
The CNN headline is definitely misleading:

“Tesla sales beating Mercedes, BMW and Audi.”

No one would guess they are talking about "per model sales" vs "per
manufacturer sales", since they are naming manufacturers. It's just linkbait.
Tesla really is the new Apple!

~~~
notatoad
"No one would guess"

really? because my first assumption was that they were comparing sales of
Tesla's only model to sales of Mercedes, BMW, and Audi's equivalent models.
that is, comparing the sales of one high-end luxury car with the sales of
other high-end luxury cars. it seems blindingly obvious that the Model S isn't
selling more units than Mercedes' entire range.

~~~
jedmeyers
But they did not say "Model S vs A8", they had said "Tesla vs Audi" - which
does not mean "Model S vs A8".

~~~
notatoad
they actually did say it. there was a whole article, including a clearly
labeled graph, underneath that headline. They didn't say it in the headline,
but that's the reason articles exists instead of just headlines - sometimes
they have stuff in them.

[http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/13/autos/tesla-sales-bmw-
merced...](http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/13/autos/tesla-sales-bmw-mercedes-
audi/index.html)

~~~
jedmeyers
So because the article exists it is now OK to lie in the headlines?

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drawkbox
This is the old guard problem. You need a new company to come along once in a
while and push through a new industry or new industry focus with real effort.

Current car companies, to protect their current products, they didn't put the
full force behind electric, that is why they saw less demand and their looks
and cars weren't pretty. Audi could benefit if they would have had the same
focus and get news that tips in their favor like Tesla, people rooting for
them. It costs money to start new product lines, eventually they won't be as
expensive when the technology is refined and then other car companies will be
behind. It wouldn't be surprising to me if Tesla was later the tech that helps
other car companies succeed. If Tesla does succeed the others will be caught
on their heels.

This is why older companies can't innovate as much, protecting the main
source/bottom line. The only company that has really attacked their own
product lines with new innovative products is Apple with the iPad (which
directly hit their other models, but also hit their competitors bottom line
harder). Other companies follow or start too late when they are comfy on their
big bottom line cushion.

All that money Audi has and they are essentially losing the PR battle. Maybe
make an investment in Tesla or compete with it then, stop crying that they'll
get more focus. People want electric cars to succeed and will be more
forgiving when it is done right. Audi your PR just backfired, you look
threatened.

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jagermo
Its interesting to see how they try to cover it up. Especially BMW has
researched alternative fuels, mainly hydrogen, but stopped its test fleet in
2009 [0]. Only one super expensive image car, a BMW 7, remains [1]. Audi and
VW also dabbled in alternative energies, but none of them really got into it.
Hopefully, Tesla can breath some new live into this area. We live in the 21st
century, I demand vehicles fueled by anything other than oil.

[0] [http://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/alternative-antriebe-
bmw-...](http://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/alternative-antriebe-bmw-stellt-
wasserstoff-testflotte-ein-a-665549.html) (german, Google Translate here:
[http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=...](http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fauto%2Faktuell%2Falternative-
antriebe-bmw-stellt-wasserstoff-testflotte-ein-a-665549.html))

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_Hydrogen_7>

~~~
foobarqux
> We live in the 21st century, I demand vehicles fueled by anything other than
> oil.

Why? (Of course there are many valid reasons, just want to get an idea of
which ones people are interested in.)

~~~
byoung2
I am a fan of electric cars because electricity is a buffer against volatile
(no pun intended) gas prices. A gallon of gas cost $1.20 just a decade ago,
compared to $4 today, a jump of over 200%, compared to a maybe 20% increase in
electricity costs. As various fuel sources experience price fluctuations, it
will be easier to change the mix of power plants than to change which fuel
cars use.

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rosser
Wow, defensive. And I say that as a certified Audi fanboy (I'm on my 2nd
S4...)

~~~
wglb
No S5 for you?

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schiffern
Audi's blog post said the headline was misleading, not "Tesla sales". Could
someone edit HN's headline?

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xpose2000
I thought it was implied in the original article that Tesla was beating the
other car makers for their specific high-end models only.

It's pretty obvious that Tesla cannot beat Mercedes, BMW, and Audi in ALL
models.

Still, its funny to see a car company write a blog post like this. They are
all scurrying about trying to make sure Tesla can't operate in all states
because they want to sell directly instead of through dealerships.

The car industry is being disrupted.

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pvnick
Well at this point I would much rather own a Tesla car than an Audi car so
suck it Audi. Then again it's hard to envision making those kinds of
purchasing decisions with the depressing state of my bank account.

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sixQuarks
They're grasping at straws

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noonespecial
Wow. Already 3/4 of the way down the "first they ignore you..." continuum. Go
Tesla.

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InclinedPlane
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you
win.

There are a lot of interesting aspects to electric-only cars, especially from
a manufacturing aspect. There are lots of parts that you just don't need in an
electric car, which can lead to efficiencies of mass production. Now that
electric cars are no longer either improbably futuristic nor merely the butt
of jokes a lot of people are finding it easier to have an electric car be a
part of their lives, and that's a pretty big deal. I don't know how things
will go, but it'll be nice to get a lot more R&D into electric vehicles for a
while.

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marvin
Wow, I can't believe Audi is actually scared of Tesla and practically admits
it on their blog...

