
Jill Stein to file for recount in three states - ardit33
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/307404-jill-stein-to-file-for-recount-in-three-states
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epicureanideal
I think if there's reason to believe that votes were miscounted or there was
fraud, there should be a recount.

But I can't help but notice that the media seemed to hammer Trump about the
possibility of not accepting the results of the election. I strongly suspect
if he were the one demanding a recount it would be treated very differently.
It's disappointing that our society so obviously switches its standards based
on someone's in-group or out-group status.

~~~
xapata
Recount is different from rejection of results. It was unclear whether he was
anticipating a legal fight or simply planning on ignoring the counts. My guess
is that he wanted to lose so that he could focus on making noise and have no
responsibility.

~~~
epicureanideal
Why would anyone put so much time and money into an activity they hope to
lose?

I think the whole issue was created to make him look bad. "Hey, if you lose,
will you accept the results?" After Gore/Bush, I don't know if anybody would
immediately say "Yes" without thinking about the possibility of questionable
things happening. Would you accept the results of an election with fraud?
Until the election happens, you can't have 100% confidence that you won't
think there was some fraud.

A lot of us here have questions about voting machines, people voting who
shouldn't, etc. These are natural concerns that should be Hillary's concerns
(as they are now) and not just Trump's.

The question was not "Assuming there is iron clad proof of no voter fraud,
will you accept the results if you lose?" The answer would almost certainly
have been "Yes" in that case. I think all of us on this site are smart enough
to assign non-zero probability to the chance that this question was asked
WITHOUT the "no voter fraud" disclaimer specifically to elicit the reaction
that it got.

~~~
xapata
> money

He loaned $45 million and gave less than $10 million, but mostly as in-kind
gifts not cash. He said back in 2000 he could run for president and _make
money_ from the campaign. I think he succeeded, depending on the interest rate
of that loan. He spent a bunch of campaign funds by buying from his own
businesses.

> time and money

Maybe he just wanted to be on TV.

~~~
ant6n
> He spent a bunch of campaign funds by buying from his own businesses.

Is that illegal?

~~~
xapata
No, just lame.

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FreeKill
To bring this more in line with HackerNews usual content, what do you guys
think the chances are that the voting machines will actually show a
significant discrepancy from the paper receipts? Will this recount actually
involve an audit of the voting machine software at all?

I have my doubts the outcome will be significantly changed, but I'd love it if
the process involved an auditing of the voting machines, just from a curiosity
standpoint...

~~~
rbanffy
I would suggest it be checked, but not expect to find anything depending on
the model. It'd look for zeroed out blocks, blocks containing data from other
blocks or blocks containing random data where there should be none because
this is how I'd erase traces of malware myself. Also look for directories with
suspicious deleted entries (because I almost forgot I'd need to rewrite those
too to erase any fingerprints).

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RcouF1uZ4gsC
Basically, this is pretty much academic at this point. Hilary would have to
gain enough votes to flip all 3 states. Trump will win the recount.

However, this will absolutely enrage his base as they see it as an attempt by
the elite to steal the election. Trump seems to be moderating on some of his
previous stances, but will likely reverse and be even more extreme after he
wins a recount. Also, look for pressure on the Senate to completely suspend
the filibuster and push through a very right wing Justice.

Based on how President Obama and Hilary Clinton are handling this so far, I
expect them to intervene to squash any recount and try to make the transition
as smooth as possible.

~~~
pvdebbe
I noticed the same, Obama and Hillary both started to act very sportsmanlike
right after the results. As is appropriate. It's the media and other factors
that seem to hold on to a distant dream they once had.

~~~
vinay427
What's unsportsmanlike about a recount, especially by a third party candidate
that received so few votes? It's not like she's not accepting the results of
the election, just challenging the accuracy of the reported results.

~~~
pvdebbe
I didn't mean Stein, more like meant about all the rioting and the news
coverage that tries to paint this grudgy picture.

~~~
vinay427
Yes, then I misunderstood your comment, and in that case I agree.

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ardit33
Looks like it is going to happen. The fundraising is getting close to its goal
and it is over 1.9m, (it was 1.7 just 30 mins ago).

[https://jillstein.nationbuilder.com/recount](https://jillstein.nationbuilder.com/recount)

~~~
postcarnival
it will lead nowhere... but civil war would be interesting!

~~~
rbanffy
A rigged election, a civil war interrupted by a Russian nuclear attack. On the
bright side, we'll have time travel soon.

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eknight15
"Jill Stein is the friend who ruins your wedding but really shows up for you
during the divorce."

[https://twitter.com/morgan_murphy/status/801589703078187008](https://twitter.com/morgan_murphy/status/801589703078187008)

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RcouF1uZ4gsC
Looked into this a little more, and I doubt that Jill Stein could even get a
recount in Pennsylvania. According to
[http://billypenn.com/2016/11/23/a-pennsylvania-recount-
for-h...](http://billypenn.com/2016/11/23/a-pennsylvania-recount-for-hillary-
clinton-a-nightmare-scenario-explained/)

" A candidate can’t actually file for a vote recount under Pennsylvania law.
Instead, they would have to challenge a county board regarding its vote
computations, and a state appeals judge would have to rule that a statewide
recount is necessary. That means the Clinton campaign would either have to
request a recount by petition in every voting district or present a prima
facie case showing voter fraud. (Prima facie is a lower threshold than beyond
a reasonable doubt. A judge would just have to rule that fraud probably
occurred in order to call for a recount.) "

While a state judge just possibly might rule for Clinton for a recount, I
seriously doubt a judge would do that Jill Stein as she has no realistic
chance of winning the state.

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cmurf
If there's any modern case to be made for the electoral college, it's in these
states. If they aren't all effectively faithless voters, then the founding
purpose of the college is not true and should be done away with. Instead, it
sounds like the faithless voters, should there be any, and if they defect,
would vote for some other Republican. So it's not like Hillary would win just
because Donald doesn't get enough votes.

If the election is questionable, the state legislatures can pick its Electors,
and they should. That's what authenticates the process. Of course there needs
to be more facts than just speculation there's been tampering or fraud; but
the way these systems are designed, they may not have sufficient auditing to
determine it, itself a big problem.

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rmason
They'd be wasting their money in Michigan. The director of the Michigan Bureau
of Elections said nothing is connected to the Internet. That's because
Michigan is entirely a paper and optical scan state.

[http://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2016/11/23/michigan...](http://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2016/11/23/michigan-
elections-director-casts-doubt-hacking-claim/94327842/)

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rubyfan
What is this data referenced in the article?

FTA: With your help, are raising money to demand recounts in Wisconsin,
Michigan, and Pennsylvania-- three states where _the data suggests significant
discrepancies in vote totals, " the page reads._

~~~
dangrossman
> The scientists, among them J. Alex Halderman, the director of the University
> of Michigan Center for Computer Security and Society, told the Clinton
> campaign they believe there is a questionable trend of Clinton performing
> worse in counties that relied on electronic voting machines compared to
> paper ballots and optical scanners

Source: Computer scientists urge Clinton campaign to challenge election
results

[http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/22/politics/hillary-clinton-
chall...](http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/22/politics/hillary-clinton-challenge-
results/)

