
Ask HN: I'm a New Manager – How to Best Handle Employee Grievance? - dvanwag
I was recently hired as a Project Manager at a small company. I&#x27;ve only been on the job a few weeks when I was told an employee had filed a complaint against me for creating a hostile workplace. When I asked how I exactly did this I was told I said a curse word at a meeting.<p>Has anyone ever dealt with this situation before?  What is the best thing for me to do?  I dont want a hostile workplace environment on my end where I have to keep looking over my shoulder either.
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CyberFonic
I have been a project manager in many organisations and I have on occasion let
loose swear words. It has never been a problem. Over the years I have noticed
that there are two distinct possibilities:

1\. You might be in a company where nobody swears. In that case, it might be
the expected norm that you too speak diplomatically and politely.

2\. You might have a precious snowflake on your team. These come in two
varieties:

(a) persons who simply are simply more sensitive than the majority; and

(b) persons who are under-performing and are using the excuse of "hostile
workplace" as a cover-up for their substandard productivity.

Perhaps, you are the first project manager that they have hired and the staff
are not accustomed to being expected to deliver on schedule, etc. In a small
company, it seems strange to me that you can't have a candid conversation with
your manager / boss. Not being given the individual's name for "privacy
reasons" seems suspiciously like somebody is playing politics.

~~~
danielscrubs
So true, I've met all of them during my decade of work! But I've had one
instance when the project manager was the snowflake.

The manager needed constant validation, and when he didn't get it he became
angry. Last time, half the team just left within a year. What I've gathered is
that more often than not, they are micro managers with some kind of broken
confidence (bad divorce, bad education or bad health can all take its toll on
it). "If people just listened to me..." is their motto, no matter who they
talk to or what subject. When other teams down-prioritised our team because
they didn't want to work with him it was shit flinging time!

I'm starting to get better at sensing if people just want to win a discussion
or want to learn & teach. But I wished I learnt it sooner.

~~~
folkhack
> I'm starting to get better at sensing if people just want to win a
> discussion or want to learn & teach. But I wished I learnt it sooner.

The older I get the more I see this as a _critical_ soft skill to have in the
corporate world. I wish I could go back to myself in earlier engineering roles
and say, "just stop talking - these people don't care, they're only here for
the narrative."

------
go_ruby
If it was actually only a single curse word and not maliciously directed at
any individual, apologize and start recording the meetings, you probably have
your phone out anyway, download the Hi Q app, just let it run. That person
probably has something to hide about their work habits. You don't have to trot
out the recordings at the first sign of back stabbing, let them pile up and if
they make a serious play to get you canned you can start to share them at an
advantageous moment. I learned this the hard way. I started keeping my phone
in my breast pocket if there was not a table to set it on, people who make
those sort of HR reports always have something to hide or protect usually
their own incompetence. You may never need them but it literally can't hurt.

~~~
underwater
I believe that is illegal in certain countries and states. For example
California has two party consent for recording conversations.

~~~
notus
The way they are doing it seems illegal... However at my work we host all our
meetings through zoom and record them all.

~~~
ahaferburg
That also sounds illegal.

~~~
eropple
Can you maybe substantiate this a little? I don't understand why a company
recording the meetings of their employees, on company time and regarding
company business, would be illegal.

(An individual doing so, on the other hand, might be problematic.)

~~~
NewsAware
This would definitely be illegal in Germany where I work as CTO. Even having
employees sign some letter of acceptance of such would still be illegal as a
court would assume an employee was in an uneven power position and therefore
not able to refuse even if they wanted to.

~~~
PascLeRasc
It's always so refreshing to hear about Germany's labor laws. America's pretty
much a third-world country when it comes to employee rights.

~~~
el_dev_hell
> America's pretty much a third-world country when it comes to employee
> rights.

Nope, that's not true at all. Not to play the game of semantic-nazi, but
that's legitimately offensive when you look at a "third-world" country's
employee rights compared to the US.

I'll take you for a tour in Phnom Penh, Cambodia if you're interested in
seeing what a "third-world" country's working conditions are really like.

~~~
narendranag
There is a difference between working conditions, and labour rights. America
has first-world working conditions, and third-world (or worse) labour rights.

------
mancerayder
It depends the context in which you cursed. As a curser (and manager), it's
taken much worse in certain circumstances. I.e. "This fucking code" versus "I
don't give a fuck what you have to say" or such, in the latter is more
aggressive and directed.

An environment where cursing is a fireable offense is an environment I'd
avoid, because there are limits to the demands of hypersensitive people.

Cursing aside, my worry is your hostile environment criticism might have a
wider cause than a single word. Try to work on building positive relationships
with as many people as possible. Smalltalk, interest in them and help in the
context of the company are things to aim to build.

------
JSeymourATL
> I was told an employee had filed a complaint ...

Assuming the Company is large enough to have an HR Department; expect them to
conduct an investigation. Their primary role is to protect the company.

As a Manager-- you'll want to align yourself with HR (be politically savvy)
seek their guidance and consider the needs of the broader organization first.

Understand that lots of people are watching you now. You'll need to be extra
courteous and thoughtful in your words and actions.

> [https://www.employersresource.com/human-resources/hr-
> scenari...](https://www.employersresource.com/human-resources/hr-
> scenario/hr-scenario-hostile-work-environment/)

~~~
Trias11
+1

Talk to HR, discuss this in details.

HR would be on your side (and not on the employee side - even though he/she
may be told otherwise).

So HR may propose good plan to resolve it.

------
maddy1512
In my opinion you should not curse as a manager in a serious meeting.

For eg: "The quality of this code can be improved" vs "This fucking code has
to be corrected" or

very simple statements like:

"what is this"? vs "what the fuck is this"

The tone by adding one curse word changes from inquisitive to condescending
and intimidating.

So never use curse words for serious things.

However, after a certain period of time when you're familiar with the
environment and people you may joke and curse while having a casual chit-chat.

As for the problem now, as this is a small company have an informal meeting
and sort this out and apologize if needed(use humor if you're good at it to
make all this less uncomfortable)!

------
duxup
So where does it go from here? If anywhere?

What happens next really depends on your employer. If they don't think it was
a problem, then you are probably good.

If your employer feels there is a problem then ask your employer what happens
next (well ask either way and getting the response in email is nice).

I had a coworker complain to HR about me, but it was also a part of a campaign
to file complaints against a laundry list of people and my employer did not
feel the complaints were valid. They were very minor complaints that didn't
even make sense on the most basic level (like misnamed me several times,
identified me as someone else, identified tasks I wasn't even responsible for,
and then they would say I helped them with the things they previously
complained about).

I was very clear with HR about things. Followed up with an email to HR to get
what I said in writing.

Then I was just very careful around that employee, emails were very clear and
detailed, I did everything I could to not be alone with that person.

Eventually that employee left, tried to sue the company (for entirely new
claims unrelated to me), had case thrown out and it was ok from there.

But every company is different so who knows what might happen.

If you feel things start to get confused... contact a lawyer who can give you
advice. Plenty of lawyers out there who can offer advice for free or cheaper
for just a bit of their time.

Keep in mind only your own lawyer is there explicitly to help you and will
have your best interests in mind.

No matter what your company says HR is there to protect the company, NOT you.

------
sombremesa
I'm not sure a project manager is the same thing as a manager. Is this person
your direct report?

~~~
dvanwag
As far as I am aware. I was not given the individual's name for "privacy
reasons". I was explicitly told it was someone under me, but that could be
anyone of 20-some odd people.

~~~
megablast
You are a project manager. You have no one under you.

~~~
amerkhalid
A lot of project managers like to pretend that they are real managers. Some of
them might even believe that developers are their reports.

------
ben_jones
It's hard advice but especially at a small company with potentially no formal
processes the best you can do is prepare for any outcome. As with all aspects
of life, be kind, thoughtful, and reasonable, but do not always assume others
will be the same to you.

------
megablast
> I dont want a hostile workplace environment on my end where I have to keep
> looking over my shoulder either.

But you don't care about creating a hostile workplace? At no point have you
addressed what you have created.

------
NewsAware
If this is a small company, I would probably not worry too much about process
and ask the concerned employee to discuss this in a friendly and open way.
Maybe a misunderstanding which can be cleared, maybe the reason is actually
lying deeper. Good chance you can resolve this by being emphatic and act
understandingly.

That being said, I would note down a memory protocol afterwards in case this
turns ugly after all.

~~~
dvanwag
I'm not sure what you mean by a memory protocol, what is that?

~~~
Spooky23
Sometimes they are called memorandum for the record.

Send yourself an email with your recollection of the incident and print a copy
that you do not keep at work. If there is a problem later, you’ll have
documentation of your contemporaneous thoughts that can be used to corroborate
yourself.

It’s good practice whenever something significant happens.

------
loco5niner
Not cursing is more professional than cursing.

~~~
Trias11
If the guy barged into the new position from outside and cursed his way
through meetings in aggressive way - that is one thing.

But if he used a "curse word" once (OMG!) in a meeting and some primadonna
filed a complaint - fuck that.

------
NullPrefix
Have you tried not cursing?

~~~
Trias11
I did and it fucking worked!

------
annogram
Say that you want to record meeting minutes from now on and will be recording
important meetings to summaries later. If people aren't comfortable with that
ask them not to attend and they can be briefed later. Eventually, that will
get to annoying and they will just start attending the meetings.

