
Automatic: Your Smart Driving Assistant - gresrun
http://www.automatic.com/
======
nlh
This is a great start to what I hope will be an awesome product. One of the
other commenters mentioned fleet/enterprise customers -- let me raise my hand
(as one of those customers) and say how SORELY needed this sort of approach to
tech is in the fleet space.

I actually predict (hope?) this will take off more on the business side than
the consumer side. Here's the problem:

Fleet managers (that is, people who are responsible for keeping track
of/maintaining large numbers of vehicles used by a company) need a simple way
of doing three things:

1\. Locating their vehicles.

2\. Getting data about their vehicles

3\. Changing settings on their vehicles (i.e. lock/unlock, etc.)

That's really basically it. And you would be surprised how totally awful the
existing solutions are for doing even two of them (most focus on #1). 3 is a
bit more difficult as not everything can be done through the OBD port, but
many things can.

There are, literally, a hundred different companies that sell products that do
the first - usually in the form of a hidden box that has a GPS antenna and a
(really crappy and expensive) cellular modem that pings a really expensive
service via GPRS or some similar out-of-date tech and costs $30/month/device
for service + $500 / device. It's absurd.

What every fleet manager actually wants: The Automatic device w/ mobile data
transmission ability (i.e. not tethered to an iPhone). Let me a) see where my
car(s) are, b) get telemetry from the OBD port, and c) interact with the car
in whatever fashion is possible via the OBD port.

I know that's a 2nd gen product that I'm proposing - and I think these guys
are smart to start with something that tethers to a consumer phone for data.
But produce this product for a reasonable price and there are literally
hundreds of thousands (millions?) of fleet vehicles on the road that will
scoop 'em up.

And I think the use case is stronger for an enterprise product. I hear fleet
managers (and myself) asking for this product every day. I don't hear
consumers saying "damn, I wish I knew how efficient my braking was."

Anyway, the tl;dr is: Awesome. Eager. Good Luck!

~~~
revelation
Teslas Model S does 1, 2 and 3 out of the box and offers you a REST api to
automate it. This stuff should just be standard issue in this day and age.

(I thought the OBD port is decidedly "read-only"? Given how easy access is
mandated by law.)

~~~
sliverstorm
_This stuff should just be standard issue in this day and age._

Well, it isn't, and what fleet wants to buy a whole new fleet of cars when
they could just plug in a device? Additionally, a plug-in device will help
demonstrate both to manufacturers and to customers that customers want those
features.

Transitional solutions have value.

------
UnoriginalGuy
I've seen these before. There are several companies working on similar
products (and things like HUDs you can get off of eBay which show you OBD-II
information).

The main problem with these (all of them!) is that the OBD II was never
designed to be used like this. It will run the device 24/7 even when the car
is turned off. So it will run down your battery in a similar way to leaving
the cabin light on would do...

Nothing dramatic but if you're a "city driver" (i.e. no high-speed driving to
recharge your battery) then you could get yourself into a situation where you
need to be jump-started.

So as I said, great concept, however until the OBD-II port is "fixed" so it
can be switched on and off I wouldn't get one for my car. Too high a chance
that I wouldn't use my car for a weekend and then find it wouldn't start on
Monday.

~~~
thejo
We're paranoid about not running your car's battery down. When the ignition is
off, we consume less than 1 mA. By itself, the Automatic Link would take 3-4
years to drain even a cheap battery.

~~~
raverbashing
I think it's better to break this down, because this myth of 'running out of
battery' is really exaggerated

Let's say your average battery has 40AH. That means it can provide 1A for 40h
(or better, the product time(h) x current(A) = 40 for a charged battery) @ 12v

If your lamps consume 24W (I'm guessing), that's 2A, it means it would go from
fully charget to nothing in 20h. But of course, your battery is usually not
100% and you need a certain battery capacity to start the engine.

Even if the consumption of this device is 1W while idle (which is really an
exaggerated value), the device uses around 0.084A and the battery would take
480h to go from 100% to 0% (or about 20 days)

My guess is that an unpowered car uses more than that by itself, so this
dongle is not an issue, unless you're leaving it unattended, you can unplug it
but will probably run out of battery nonetheless.

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
I wouldn't call it a myth people have reported issues with similar port
adapters, particularly bluetooth ones. If the issue doesn't apply here then
great but in general people should pay attention.

~~~
mavhc
My cheap chinese bluetooth obd2 device caused my battery to drain when I was
ill for a week and didn't use my car over the christmas holidays. On the plus
side now I know how to jump start it.

~~~
ibrahima
Thanks, this is good to know since I have one too. I'll have to start
unplugging mine (also cheap and probably Chinese, though I got it on Amazon).
But I've left it in for several months without issue, I guess maybe I just
drive regularly enough that it's not an issue.

------
vyrotek
I would label this as "Mint.com for your Car". And along with that, I'm sure
your data will be collected, analyzed, and sold. I imagine they'll eventually
partner with insurance companies too and these stats will influence your
rates. Companies like Progressive are already doing this.

Don't get me wrong though. I'm not saying any of this is wrong or bad. I'm
just trying to imagine what the bigger picture here is for them.

(Edit) From their Privacy Policy:

 _In an ongoing effort to better understand and serve our users, we often
conduct research on our customer demographics, interests, and behavior based
on the Personal Data and other information provided to us. This research may
be compiled and analyzed on an aggregate basis, and we may share this
aggregate data with our affiliates, agents and business partners. This
aggregate information does not identify you personally. We may also disclose
aggregated user statistics in order to describe Automatic to current and
prospective business partners, and to other third parties for other lawful
purposes.

As we develop our business, we might sell or buy businesses or assets. In the
event of a corporate sale, merger, reorganization, dissolution or similar
event, Personal Data may be part of the transferred assets; in this event, you
will be notified via email and/or a prominent notice on our website of any
change in ownership, as well as any choices you may have regarding your
Personal Data. We may also share your information with our subsidiaries and
affiliates, if any._

~~~
hyperbovine
If the service turns out to actually be usefil, I hope they will consider
charging money for it in lieu of spiriting away my personal information as you
suggest.

~~~
jonny_eh
It's not free, it costs $70.

~~~
skeletonjelly
And Facebook's not free because you (presumably) paid for your computer.

------
patrickk
Wow I had an idea similar to this back in college, couldn't get any co-
founders interested in doing a proper startup sadly!

iPhone accessory manufacturer had a smartphone-OBD-II product called CarTrip
which they discontinued:

[http://www.griffintechnology.com/blog/new/cartrip-and-
cleand...](http://www.griffintechnology.com/blog/new/cartrip-and-cleandrive-
app/)

As others have noted, you can buy the hardware yourself for pretty cheap:
[http://dx.com/p/obdii-bluetooth-car-diagnostic-cable-
black-b...](http://dx.com/p/obdii-bluetooth-car-diagnostic-cable-black-blue-
orange-dc-12v-42825?rt=1&p=6&m=1&r=4&k=1&t=1&s=&u=42825)

Combine it with an app like Torque...:
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torq...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torque&hl=en)

...or Rev and you've got some of the functionality already:
<http://www.devtoaster.com/products/rev/>

edit: the advantage of Automatic is that it's an all in one solution for the
mass market, rather than the DIY/car enthusiast nature of the existing apps
and hardware.

~~~
zdw
Last I looked, none of these were iPhone compatible, as they were Bluetooth
Serial profile (SPP), which isn't supported for app use.

This may have changed, so for now the conventional ELM### devices are
Android/Jailbreak only.

As an iOS user, this alone makes me interested in Automatic's product.

~~~
patrickk
Rev, linked above, has been around for a few years and is iPhone compatible.
See the hardware page on their site for bluetooth info.

~~~
machfive
Rev only advertises/supports wifi dongles, for the reasons listed above

------
ck2
So it's a $10 elm327 ?

[http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=elm327&_sacat=0](http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=elm327&_sacat=0)

With a Torque clone?

[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torq...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torque)

~~~
Alexx
Only if you could call the ipod a clone of all previous mp3 players.
Technology != Customer Experience.

~~~
msprague
Except torque is only for car enthusiasts, and it looks like the general
population would have use for this.

~~~
ck2
I drive a 15 year old car and find Torque very valuable, it's not just for
enthusiasts.

And you can make the screens as simple as this displays.

I guess this one is just easier out of the box.

------
dmmalam
Does this also connect to the CAN Bus, if so will you offer a simple high
level API to it. I would buy one now if it did.

Background: I showed Lockitron to my dad a while back, and he wanted it for
his car. ie unlock/lock from his phone, or even by just walking up, like
keyless-go on the mercs.

I did a bit of googleling, and it seemed like it _should_ be pretty simple.
Connect a dongle to the diagnostic port (inc CAN bus wires), and then fire the
correct CAN messages down. On most modern cars you can pretty much control
anything, from the locks, cruise control, windows, seats, radio, lights,
wipers etc. The problem is the CAN message format isn't documented anywhere,
and it varies from car to car. You would have to sniff bus, with lots of trial
& error.

If there was a high level API, ie openDriverSideWindow(), I could image the
community creating a whole host of automation possibilities. ie Open windows
when the temp is above 30C, or turn radio down when I'm close to home.

~~~
mseebach
> unlock/lock from his phone

Liability _hell_.

~~~
umsm
It depends on the driver and the area you're from. In front of my home, I
rarely lock my car.

~~~
stcredzero
Depending on the jurisdiction, you could be liable for stuff that happens if
someone steals your unlocked car.

~~~
jessaustin
If this is a common thing, how does the party holding you liable typically
show that the car was unlocked?

~~~
stcredzero
Usually a confession by the perp, and/or by the owner. It's not unusual at all
for people not to know the details of the law like this and blurt out
factoids, and for there to be harsh but difficult to enforce laws in the US.

~~~
jessaustin
I'd expect a "confession" by one who stole a car to be worth very little in a
civil action by a third party against the owner of that car.

~~~
stcredzero
If the "confession" is from a known car thief, sure. If from a neighborhood
kid with an otherwise clean record, then not so much.

------
ry0ohki
Lesson for startups here: There are tons of devices/apps that do exactly what
this does already. What's the difference? Automatic has great design, snappy
domain name, and most importantly mass market positioning. These had
traditionally been targeted towards gear heads, but Automatic smartly
positioned it to be something mass market (gas mileage, etc...)

~~~
jessriedel
Could you give an example or two of their best competitor?

~~~
ry0ohki
I've never used any of them, but some quick Googling:

[https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/dashcommand-obd-ii-gauge-
das...](https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/dashcommand-obd-ii-gauge-
dashboards/id321293183?mt=8)

<http://devtoaster.com/products/rev/index.html>

~~~
admiralpumpkin
The first link is a $50 piece of software that still requires a dongle. The
suggested dongle is $99.

The next piece of software is $40 and works with three listed 3rd party
dongles each over $100 (unable to find price from the one in Germany).

If these are Automatic's best competitors, they're going to clean up. They
control the whole widget and they appear to have a good UI.

------
jpxxx
This is egregiously well done, all of it. I have zero interest in my car or
how it works, and yet I'll have one.

Crystal clear website, crystal clear video, an unaggressive logo, they
precisely explain what the product does, and you know exactly how much it
costs up front.

So well done.

~~~
frogpelt
I'm right there with you.

At this point, I'm driving a beater with close to 200k miles on it and I want
this product badly. I guess I just love collecting data.

------
isalmon
Very good concept overall, I like the idea A LOT. One thing that surprised me:
>> Speeding doesn't save as much time as you might think, but driving 10 MPH
over the speed limit reduces fuel efficiency by 12-15%.

How's my fuel efficiency related to the speed limit set by local authorities?

~~~
danielweber
The biggest change is air resistance.

Some day when you are on a freeway without many other cars around, shift into
neutral. Depending on your car model, you will lose 1-2 mph every second until
you get to around 50 mph, when you will lose speed much more slowly. On a flat
road it might take you a whole minute to drop the next 10 mph.

(Make sure you are in the right hand land before doing stuff like this. Also
be aware that driving too slow can be as dangerous as driving too fast.)

~~~
sigkill
I wonder if some wing tech were possible to be used on vehicle body as an
aftermarket option to increase laminar flow (or delay separation, I'm not
sure, not an AE) to reduce air resistance.

~~~
danielweber
I've seen hypermilers put aeroshells (don't know the proper name) on the backs
of their cars to reduce air friction. It's pretty simple to do, but it looks
very trashy.

------
3dptz
I like the design of the app and the idea of hacking cars ODB data. However I
see plenty of things that make me raise (an) eyebrow(s).

1\. It relies on the amount and quality of ODB data your car provides. The
data is worth as much as the precision of the car sensors (fuel consumption on
my 5 year old car is very unreliable).

2\. "Upgrade your cars' capabilities" is just fluff. Your car doesn't gain any
abilities.

3\. I like the idea of making people aware of fuel economy but the quality of
feedback is directly depended on 1. Bad sensors will give bad readings. If,
however your car has state of the art fuel consumption sensors, chances are
pretty high it's a nice car already showing that data right on the dashboard.

4\. The emergency services will be contacted after a crash is detected by the
accelerations sensors in your smartphone. A device that is loosely lying
around somewhere in your car. In the assumption it survives a crash and isn't
catapulted through the windshield landing 30 meters outside the range of
bluetooth. Upon which it will give an auditive cue informing abrupt braking is
bad for fuel economy and your social driving score will be negatively
impacted.

The idea is great and has good uses. But for now it looks like a gadget
bringing little new to the table. For the features it does have, only time
will tell on how fail proof they are implemented.

------
dsr_
The privacy policy seems to boil down to "We're not planning on selling your
information to anyone, but if it leaks or someone hands us a subpoena, tough
noogies."

That makes me itchy, and I'm not even planning on doing anything illegal.

~~~
pc86
I think you'd be hard pressed to find _any_ company that would willfully
disobey a subpoena.

~~~
jessriedel
I think the idea is that the company could take steps so that they never had
access (either physically or cryptographically) to the data in the first
place, making a subpoena useless.

There are a few industries which are obligated by statute to keep certain
types of data at hand in case the government wants it, but I'm sure that
wouldn't apply here.

~~~
frogpelt
Your idea presents two problems: 1\. Automatic cannot do any expansion of
capabilities using customer data without first changing their policy so that
they can access that data.

2\. If/when Automatic changes their policy it will create a negative reaction
from customers that the policy is being changed.

It's a lot easier to promise protection of the data and let the customer
decide whether they believe the promise or not before they sign up.

~~~
jessriedel
OK. I wasn't making a recommendation for Automatic, I was just trying to
explain to pc86 how dsr_'s preferred strategy (that Automatic keep no data)
was very plausible and, in fact, is used by many companies.

------
hantusk
Look up ODB-II. Lots of cars have this port. The app Torque for Android has a
lot of users. Cheap bluetooth adapters can be had from China :)

~~~
mcginleyr1
<http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php?topic=95037.0>

------
Peroni
_The Automatic Link includes a built-in accelerometer that can detect many
types of crashes. Automatic uses your phone's data connection to immediately
report the crash to 911 with your name, location, and vehicle description._

Now this fascinates me. I wonder what parameters are required to trigger the
automatic emergency notification.

~~~
goatforce5
Does the onboard computer report that the airbags have deployed?

Sudden deceleration + airbag deploy = 911?

~~~
danielweber
Honestly, any airbag deploy should be a call to 911. I think it's how OnStar
works.

Airbags are dangerous. Not as dangerous as not having one when you are in a
car crash, so don't go taking yours out. I'm related to an engineer who worked
on deployment, and the manufacturers worried a _lot_ about only doing it in
cases of true crashes. They aren't perfect but nothing is.

------
kerbs
Wait, so this 69$ little contraption can read the code behind a check engine
light? That's $100 in savings that would otherwise go to the Car Mechanic
Mafia.

Pre-ordered.

~~~
Peroni
It can read the code but that doesn't give you much to work with. You won't be
able to clear the code and you will have to pay for the replacement parts and
undertake the repairs yourself.

I'm not sure what the situation is in the US but here in the UK, if you took
your car to a mechanic purely for the sake of reading the code then it would
only cost about £50.

~~~
Scorponok
According to the video you can clear the code, the example if if the code
reports "Loose gas cap".

~~~
Peroni
Let me rephrase then. Let's assume the check engine light is on due to a fault
in the fuel pump. You can clear the code but you aren't clearing the problem.
As soon as the problem occurs again, the light returns. In most cases the
faults that trigger 'check engine' lights are in a constant state of fault
until the part is repaired or replaced meaning the light will return
essentially as soon as you press the accelerator.

~~~
MartinCron
One of the most common causes for the "check engine" light to come on is a
loose gas cap. That's something I'm happy to be able to address and clear all
on my own.

Granted, I tighten my gas caps like a gorilla these days.

------
vineet
Seems very similar to these guys as well: <http://moj.io>

I am looking forward to the competition (and innovation) in this space.

~~~
acgourley
It's shocking to me how much better the automatic web design is. They tell a
similar story but I leave automatic's site with a much clearer understanding
of the features, price and value proposition.

~~~
Aloha
and yet they are very different products, moj.io uses a mobile data network,
automatic is just a bluetooth dongle.

------
xur17
Looks similar to this: <http://moj.io/> except your's doesn't require a
monthly fee (which was a big turn off for moj.io for me). I almost preordered
one, but I saw android wasn't supported yet - I'll probably come back and
check in the future.

There are some android apps in the marketplace for bluetooth OBD II devices
that can be ordered for <$20 from China. I'd pay >$10 for an app with similar
features to this if anyone's looking for an idea.

------
efsavage
Love it. Want it. Except...

Now I'm carrying around a device that can reliably be used to issue me
speeding tickets. What is my protection from that?

~~~
greggman
can't your phone already do that?

~~~
efsavage
Not very reliably. AFAIK, the geographic resolution on phones GPS would not
hold up to scrutiny if you were driving within 10-20% of the speed limit.

------
shurcooL
On the pre-order page, it says only the iPhone 5 and 4S are supported. Why
isn't 4 supported?

I have an iPad mini with LTE as my only mobile device, is there any reason
Automatic wouldn't work with it? I'm ok with it running in a smaller window
(the way iPhone-only apps run on iPads).

It also asks you to pick a car. Is that just to verify that it'll be
compatible? I mean, is there anything stopping me from changing which car I
use this device in or is it locked to use with the one car you pick?

At first I wasn't really interested in this device (I didn't see any uses of
it for me), but then I realized that sometimes I like to drive super-
economically, and if I had some sort of efficiency score to show off for that
trip, that'd be pretty neat. That way, I could compete with other drives in
who can drive the most efficiently.

~~~
trevorcreech
It's probably using Bluetooth Low Energy, which is not available on the iPhone
4. The iPad mini should work, but its obviously up to automatic whether they
build an iPad app.

------
gfodor
Ok I know this is going to sound harsh given the praise of this thread, but I
am just not getting it. The design is brilliant, the idea seems great, but of
the applications listed there isn't anything there that makes me want to reach
in my pocket and spend $70 on this. I'm not interested in how efficiently I am
driving. This is not going to help me find my car in a parking lot, since it
is an estimate and often these things are underground.

911 response is interesting but not enough to push me into purchasing. Check
engine info is interesting but again this happens so rarely I can't justify
purchasing this thing. I don't see a killer app here.

In the interest of not being all negative, I'll tell you the types of
applications that would be far more useful to me and I would pay for. I'll
list these as "pain points" since I don't want to assume too much about what
this device will make possible:

\- When I suddenly realize I am low on gas, I have to awkwardly (and unsafely)
find a gas station with Siri. Can this make this easier?

\- When I am driving to meet someone, they have no idea how close I am or when
I will arrive. Can this make that easier?

\- When I get in the car to go somewhere, I have to punch in navigation
directions or press Siri before I leave. Can this do a better job of somehow
getting the GPS navigation started on my phone intelligently?

\- When I am driving into a city, I have no idea where to find parking. Can
this help me find a parking spot?

I realize these may be wildly inapplicable to this device but these are real
problems that I wish someone would solve for me. It seems like a more
intelligent driving assistant that doesn't require unsafe gestures to be made
on my phone while driving could potentially be more possible with something
like this. For the problems above, there is surely "an app for that" but I'm
not using them because they require me to awkwardly remember to use them
before I leave or require me to take my eyes off the road. If this can solve
those problems for me in a contextually sensitive way automatically, it would
be great.

~~~
masoninthesis
I commend you for being part of the solution, but I have to say- for myself,
the ability to check the cause of the check engine light would be worth it. If
your car is fairly new, you may experience the check engine light very rarely.
But for cars over 5 years old, I think that's the best feature. As opposed to
taking it into a mechanic where you are completely ignorant of what the cause
was.

~~~
gfodor
I think it's an interesting feature, but it's still something that is a "once
in a long while" feature. And, when I do use it, it's often pointless since I
will need to take it to the mechanic anyway. If this was a free feature on my
car, sure, I'll use it, but I'm not going to buy a product for that feature.
More importantly, people who really don't care about cars in general and just
take it in when the lights go on aren't going to either. (Especially when you
consider the cost of getting your own self-diagnosis wrong. How is my mom
supposed to know if a loose gas cap is a big deal or not?)

I think there's a lot of potential here but it needs to be something that a) I
will use all the time and b) I will get real, tangible value out of it, not
academic understanding of my driving habits or a few bucks a month off of my
gas by changing them. (Which, by the way, is another "thing" I now have to
worry about: is Automotive telling me my driving is ok? What do I need to
change? Now I feel like a loser when I don't "do well" one month.) It needs to
make my life easier or allow me to do things behind the wheel that are
valuable but currently hard/dangerous to do. I think there's plenty there.

------
austenallred
I want to know how much the domain cost.

------
bkorte
2 questions:

1) Why isn't this available in Canada? All of our cars have ODBII after 96 as
well.

2) Is there an estimated completion timeline? 2 months? 2 years?

------
antonpug
Alright. The product seems pretty good, especially the marketing and the spin.
But I would have to place it in the category of "cool gadgets that you don't
really need". For $20-30, this might be a cool thing to try. But I am not
going to shell out $70 for a little tool that will tell me how efficient I am
or where I parked my car. People have been parking cars without GPS systems
for years just fine. And oh, want to help me be more efficient on the road? I
think that people who are serious about saving money already know to now
accelerate fast, drive over 65, etc.

------
bargl
Wow, this could be really cool if you collected all the data from the cars
anonymously and then built a data-set that mapped common car issues to mileage
for specific makes/models/year combos. That could really improve car
performance by predicting when issues will arise and warning the user (my 2002
malibu had a switch fail at 92k which is a common thing once I looked online,
but this lead to more issues when it failed and may have been prevented if I'd
replaced the part earlier).

This tool seems like a great idea. I'm going to get one when the android
version is released.

~~~
Cub3
I'm concerned about the Android version, a week or so ago when I was
researching the fitbit It quickly became apparent the lack of Low power BT4.0
support in android core (but available on the (S3 + Note), will this support
all android or just low power 4.0?

~~~
thejo
The Automatic Link supports both Bluetooth Low Energy and Bluetooth Classic,
so it will work with many Android phones that don't support BT 4.0 too.

------
itsprofitbaron
First of all, congrats on the launch guys!

There are several people within this space and going beyond the fact that,
they’ve got a nice generic .com (important for this type of product) which the
public can easily remember they actually have an interesting product which, so
far appears better executed than the others in this space. As well as that
they also have an interesting team behind them as well for instance their CEO
Thejo Kote, was previously a founder of NextDrop[1] which provides _real_
value to people in India by informing them when nearby water is available (In
case you’re not aware of this, despite having water pipes to them, water in
India is only available for a few hours (usually once or twice a week) at a
time and they have no way of knowing when that time actually is).

The product is useful for some of the reasons listed on their website such as
the Crash Alert, Engine Health, Where You Parked etc. Although the biggest
interest they will receive is through, external parties such as Rental
Companies and Car Insurance providers etc (In otherwords, I predict their
market is far bigger on the business than the Consumer side although, in some
instances they overlap). The Car Insurance feature may actually become their
biggest ‘feature’ for consumers in the future going forward “With Automatic
you can get an Engine Health Check, Remember Where You Parked, In The Event of
a Crash Inform the Right People and more importantly save $100’s on your Car
Insurance!”

For instance, in the UK there are a lot of car insurance providers who give
discounts to drivers who get a telematics policy aka install a “black box”
within their car (something similar to Automatic without the additional
features). These telematics policies in the UK are offered in 3 categories
(the Behaviour-Based is the most common):

\- Curfew-Based Policies – if you don’t drive between 11pm – 5am you get a
discount

\- Low Mileage Policies

\- Behaviour-Based Policies (which Automatic does with their “Drive Score”
points system) which considers how will you corner, brake and speed etc so the
better you drive your insurance becomes cheaper, you drive badly you get
penalised with higher rates etc.

[1] <http://www.nextdrop.org>

~~~
robmcm
The problem with these telemetric policies is that I bet they are actually
aimed at peanalising risky drivers rather than rewarding low risk drivers.

Perhaps I am being too syndical and actually they are just trying to replace
the, now illegal, female driver discount.

------
danielsamuels
I'd be interested in having one of these in the UK.

------
tsycho
I am really excited about this product, but had a couple of questions:

1\. Will this be able to connect to more than one phone without significant
reconfigurations? My wife and I own one car. It would be great to swap which
phone to connect to depending on who is driving.

2\. Will this need a tethering plan (or a jailbreak) for Automatic to use my
iPhone's data plan? Since AT&T/Verizon charge extra for a tethering plan, even
if you have a fixed data plan, that's an extra expense that you should mention
in your FAQs.

~~~
thejo
Automatic is designed to work with multiple drivers. So yes, you can share a
car with your wife and both of you can use Automatic.

A tethering plan is not required. The Automatic Link communicates with your
iPhone over Bluetooth and uses your phone's data connection.

------
greggman
So I ordered one almost immediately but now I'm having second thoughts and
thinking of canceling. I really don't want some company spying on me or
storing my location data.

Yea, I know the phone company already does this but still, I'd like one less
company doing it. Especially one that has no track record and is reserving the
option to sell all my data when they sell the company and change the terms at
any time.

I'd be happier if, like Google, there was a guarantee I could export my data
(and not on some TODO list someday maybe but at launch). And, that I could
delete all my data from their servers at anytime. Including, like i can on
Google Latitude, any specific data. Latitude has a "delete this day's data"
and a "delete all data" button.

Would I ever use these features? Probably not. But they'd make me feel good to
know they exist.

I also want to be able to opt out of any and all sharing of my data. Even
anonymous aggregated data. I'm happy to consider paying more for that feature.
Even a yearly fee if it was relatively low ($10-$20 a year)

------
moe
I wonder, could a malware on my phone issue a command such as "ENGAGE BRAKE
FRONT-LEFT" while I'm going 130mph on the autobahn?

~~~
jarito
As I understand it, no. ODBII is a read-only data port that surfaces
information about the state of your car. I don't believe it lets you enter
commands.

That being said, there have been man vulnerabilities in car software which is
all proprietary and hasn't undergone any public review, so I guess it is
possible.

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
OBD-II isn't completely read-only.

I mean at the very least it is used to control car keys. I know that because
MANY cars are being stolen locally via the keys being reset using the OBD-II
port.

They target particular models of a car. They drive around, find that
car/model, then use a slim jim to open the door, plug into the OBD-II port,
and reset the key to one in their possession - then they can just drive the
car away as if it was their own.

~~~
to3m
There's an article about this here:
<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/17/bmw_car_theft_hack/>

(Apparently it is particularly straightforward on recentish BMWs, because the
alarm has a dead area that allows a thief to gain access to the OBD port
undetected.)

------
NelsonMinar
What a great looking product idea! I pre-ordered; don't normally do that, but
they promise not to charge until they ship.

~~~
digitalmerc
Exactly. I wouldn't either, but they said "when they ship". Pre-ordered one
for my lady friend as well.

Doesn't say on the site, but is there an expected ship date?

Ah says in the email:

> You’ll only be charged once your Automatic Link ships in May (for iPhone)
> and Fall (for Android).

------
atonse
Pre-ordered. Way too cool! Sort of like a pedometer for your car (in that you
get quick feedback on things, etc).

Our Volkswagon dealership was going to charge me $110 to find out why we had a
check engine light. I didn't know this is all they were doing. But thankfully
our car was Certified so they waived it.

Looking forward to fun with this little device.

------
heywire
I've had one of these cheap Bluetooth OBD-II adapters for quite a while now,
however, the tight integration that this solution shows in the demo is enough
to get me to preorder. There was just too much fiddling with the other apps.
Maybe the gamification of maximizing my MPG will keep me off the pedal...

------
marban
I feel like the Beta flag next to Crash Alerts gives a new twist to what you
can expect from a beta version.

~~~
freehunter
I'm just hoping there's a way to turn it off without losing any other
functionality. I really don't want to be hit with the bill from an accidental
911 call, I'll take my chances that if there's an accident someone around (or
I) will be able to call 911 without a $70 app deciding it for me.

I would also be concerned (this seems to be an extreme edge case) that off-
roading may trip the sensor. I try not to break my equipment, but I've seen
some guys running their daily driver pretty hard, and it's not uncommon to
have some extreme jarring going on if you hit a jump wrong or run over a log
going a bit too fast. I can see a good deal of this functionality from the
device being applicable even off the road, but having 911 pay you a visit down
in a mud pit because your tire hit a rock and bounced off doesn't seem like a
positive.

~~~
thejo
You can disable the crash alert feature if you don't want it.

~~~
Flenser
Does it send the alert straight away or do you get a chance to stop it if it
triggers accidentally or the accident isn't so bad that you need an ambulance?

------
odysseus
How does Automatic compare to Verizon/Delphi's coming dongle/app that does a
lot of the same things? We don't know pricing for the Delphi dongle yet, but
it does appear to include unlocking/locking the car for certain models:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avX0YRiXDI0>
<http://shop.verizonwireless.com/?id=vehicle-diagnostics>

Automatic's GUI definitely looks nicer. If Automatic could automatically
unlock the door when I come near the car after being away from it from a
period of time, that would make this a must buy for me.

------
gms
Do all cars have this 'data port'? I had no idea this thing existed.

~~~
mcescalante
Yes, it is the OBD II port, and is typically used for on board diagnostics and
connects directly to the ECU. The bluetooth "dongles" have been around for a
number of years.

~~~
damoncali
I was under the impression that it was mandated by the government for all US
cars in the 90's. Is that not the case?

~~~
cmelbye
It was mandated that all cars built and sold in the US starting in 1996 have
it..

------
jamesaguilar
Very cool. I'll probably buy one when it comes out for Android.

------
paul_f
It is my understanding that engine codes are not public and car manufacturers
consider them copyrighted information, requiring a license. I wonder if
Automatic reverse engineered the codes or licensed them from the
manufacturers.

The check engine light is only used to indicate problems with the car's
emission system. It is unlikely to provide anything actionable unless you're
planning to get your car smogged soon.

~~~
Sanddancer
Most of the in-depth codes are proprietary, but at the same time, things like
mass airflow sensor info and throttle position sensors are under the standard
specs for OBD-II info. So even without paying the many thousands of dollars to
Ford, etc for the info, you can usually get a good idea of what's going on.

Also, the check engine light is something that can display things that people
would only consider tangentially related to the car's emissions system. Things
like misfires, or even occasionally transmission problems, can also trigger
this light.

------
davidw
I would think that fleet cars / rental cars / company cars might be more of a
market than consumers for this kind of thing in some ways.

------
parad0x1
This is really intuitive! I never even knew my car had this port. If only they
could support Android sooner, I'd preorder right now.

~~~
hadem
Do most cars have an Onboard Diagnostics Port or is this more so in newer cars
only? I wish there was some information about what cars this is expected to
work with.

~~~
mcescalante
Any car with a OBD II port should work with the device... just Google your
car. As noted, it's basically anything after 96 save for Hondas and a few
other models.

~~~
VLM
"Save for Hondas and a few other models."

How does that work? There's 11 counties in Wisconsin where you cannot register
your car unless you pass a biannual smog check which for any post '96 car
involves the OBD-II check for codes and readiness indicators. So no ODB-II
port means no wisconsin license plate with very few exceptions (mainly antique
cars and electric cars)

------
newman314
I would love to have just a nice OBD II app that allows me to diagnose and
reset params in my car. All the solutions that I've found so far seem to be
thrown together and have generally horrendous UI.

Maybe they would be willing to sell a lower tier product for the iPad with
just that and none of the geo features? If so, TAKE MY MONEY.

------
perishabledave
Well done! I'd actually consider ordering one. I'm sure you've given these out
to friends and family as testers; are there any examples of them saving on gas
that you could tell us about? The other features seem more neat than useful,
at least on a daily basis. I'd consider purchasing the device on gas benefits
alone.

------
Nycto
Does this interact with door locks and car alarms at all? Is that even
possible? At least once a week I find myself walking back to my car to make
sure I hit the car alarm. I would definitely pay to solve that problem.
Getting an iPhone app for my home security system has already saved me a lot
of grief.

~~~
uptown
OnStar offers that. Not sure if it's able to be added to your vehicle, but I
can lock/unlock/start/trigger alarm/etc. my car from my iPhone.

------
graiz
Any idea when it actually expects to ship?

------
namityadav
What I want from my driving assistant: Notify me (perhaps with a beep) if I go
N mph above speed-limit for a road. Let me specify what that N should be, and
let me override the speed limits for a specific road (this will hopefully
allow the service to crowd-source the speed limits data)

------
harshaw
I know this is going to sound stupid, but I wrote a pretty detailed business
plan for this exact same idea. Glad that these guys decide to run with it. An
interesting link from the past:

<http://37signals.com/better/motors/index>

~~~
ctz
I also had this idea (with more of a feedback-based efficiency training tool,
but still). I did get quite concerned with the privacy implications of logging
somebody's vehicle location, though.

------
ianjkalin
The release of this product seems like a great coincidence with the Department
of Energy's Apps for Vehicles competition:
<http://appsforvehicles.challenge.gov/>

I wonder if there are future partnership opportunities?

------
azernik
Hmmm. What's the multi-driver and privacy story for this? I see one mention
(being able but not required to share your parking location with other
drivers) but I'm curious about how this handles eg trip history information
when a different smartphone plugs in.

------
jmvoodoo
Very cool. I'm still waiting for a phone version of the Tactrix open port
though. Would love to be able to do in-depth data-logging of my car and ECU
flashing from my phone... the market for that is significantly smaller though
I'm sure.

------
Nimi
The "driver score" feature sounds like a solution for the worried parent whose
kid occasionally borrows the car in the evenings and on weekends. I wonder if
they plan on entering this market.

------
codedzy
No mobile friendly site? I would expect a company that makes and sells a
"smartphone" product would have a website that is optimized for a mobile
browser, like my iPhone 5.

Looks like a great product though!

------
ianjkalin
Well timed release with the Department of Energy's Apps for Vehicles
competition: <http://appsforvehicles.challenge.gov/>.

------
creativityhurts
Too bad they're US only.

~~~
goatforce5
Not even Canada, which shares a lot of the available car line up with the US.

~~~
TkTech
I'd buy this in an instant if it was available in Canada.

~~~
goatforce5
Me too. I found out the lack of support for Canada as I was filling in my
credit card details on their purchase page.

------
pdog
Off-topic: Excellent use of Bootstrap. Someone should add this to the
Bootstrap Expo[1].

[1]: <http://expo.getbootstrap.com/>

------
joshAg
I wonder if the plan on making one for obd1 vehicles or if they plan on
sticking to just obd2? A lot of gearheads who would love this are still
driving obd1 cars.

------
grill_master
$70 is crazy. For $20 I bought from www.carcarecheck.com and get OBD2 + a
year's membership + their beta.

They do real time diagnostics + crash notification = Much better deal.

~~~
grill_master
Oh yeah, and they're shipping to Canada + worldwide. Again, much better deal.

------
dholowiski
I wonder what Automattic Inc. thinks of that company name?

------
dlokshin
Out of curiosity, why does it matter what Android or iPhone I have. Is the
unit actually different? What happens if I get a different phone in a month?

~~~
thejo
hi dlokshin, we support the iPhone 4S and 5 because those are the only models
that support Bluetooth 4.0. I'm sure we can theoretically support every
Android phone out there, but as a small team, we'd rather focus on a smaller
set and provide the best experience possible. Our goal is to support as many
Android phones as possible over time.

The Automatic Link supports both classic bluetooth and bluetooth 4.0, so it
will work with both iPhones and Android phones.

~~~
frogpelt
Why does it matter what type of car I have as long as it's new enough?

~~~
msprague
OBD-II just standardizes the connection port, meaning that you can plug in the
device, but not all cars support the same information and features. Most of
them do, but I'm sure that the guys over at Automatic don't want to sell
someone a product that isn't supported or tested for their vehicle.

~~~
thejo
That's right!

------
mrbill
Been using Torque on my Android phone (~$5) along with a $12 OBD-II bluetooth
dongle from Amazon for over a year now, to do much the same thing.

------
dutchbrit
Hmm, I wonder if this would work on my Alfa Romeo ('95 GTV) - it's not in the
list, but then again, it's not a car that was sold in the USA.

------
iyulaev
Congrats guys! This product has come a long way.

------
modeless
I want the reverse of this: a way to use the car's superior GPS/IMU to augment
my phone, instead of the other way around.

------
ekurutepe
I wonder if it's possible to set a different emergency number instead of 911?
Emergency services use 112 in Europe.

~~~
jonny_eh
I'd hope it would automatically know that based on your location.

------
Tenoke
I wonder how much time it would take automatic to save $70 of the average
users' money.

------
Skywing
The android app version says it ships this fall. When does the iOS version
ship?

~~~
technoweenie
May, according to the order page.

<https://www.automatic.com/order>

~~~
Skywing
Doh. For some reason the orange tag on the android one made me expect to see
one for the iOS so my eye didn't even read the text. It's right there, haha.
My bad.

------
sajid
How does the engine trouble codes feature compare to something like VAG-COM?

~~~
nuclear_eclipse
VAG-COM is much more powerful and flexible than an OBD-II reader.

------
dzhiurgis
Does Automatic impact my phone's battery life? ... more or less: no Next
section: Does Automatic charge a monthly fee? No, all you need is the
Automatic Link and a smartphone with an _active data plan_.

From my experience that is exactly what kills 99% of smartphone batteries...

~~~
PeterisP
At least my smartphone built-in stats app shows that my sync-everything-
everywhere habits (both mobile data and wifi) cause just 20% of my battery
drain, and more than half is spent by the screen which is used for much, much
shorter periods.

Sending a few bytes doesn't take much juice at all, and the phone radio is
anyway communicating with the cell tower very often to "check in".

------
szirka
An insurance giant will attempt to purchase Automatic. That's my guess.

~~~
yellow
Progressive already does this with a similar gadget:
<http://www.progressive.com/auto/snapshot.aspx>

------
carlob
Is this well localized? Metric units, European cars and speed limits?

~~~
patrickk
Regarding european cars...

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics#EOBD>

" _The technical implementation of EOBD is essentially the same as OBD-II,
with the same SAE J1962 diagnostic link connector and signal protocols being
used._ "

So it likely will work with European cars. (I'm not associated with Automatic,
but I have done research into OBD-II previously).

------
thomaslutz
If this would available localized for Germany, I would buy it.

------
pixelcloud
Please ship this to Canada. I went to preorder and I cannot.

------
xoail
I wonder what happened to these guys www.mavizon.com?

~~~
Zuph
They missed a major deadline and their primary investor pulled the plug.

------
joshaidan
Cool, but seems like it's not available in Canada.

------
orangethirty
Which distribution channels do you plan to use?

------
digitalmerc
Out of interest, how much did the domain cost?

------
bernatfp
So, this is a Fitbit for your car, right?

------
anandkulkarni
Very cool, guys! Love the design.

------
pfisch
This looks amazing.

------
drivebyacct2
Damn. Awesome idea and that app is ohmygod amazing.

The downside of course is much more immediate guilt about my fast
accel/deceleration habits.

------
the_ancient
They lost me by making on the iPhone first......

Android should have been the first device they released it for.

~~~
slapresta
Why?

------
contango
Prediction: No one will buy this. It does not solve an actual problem. It's a
toy for data geeks.

How the hell much did that domain cost?

~~~
ebzlo
I'm sure I paid more than this for BMW Assist in my car (I think like
$100-$300, can't remember). I was in an accident a couple years ago; it wasn't
a terrible accident, but if it had been, the service it provided would have
been well worth the price tag (notifying all the right people, making sure I'm
okay, tracking my location for me, etc). If the functionality is similar, this
is easily worth the $65 price tag on that alone. If I'm a parent with a first-
time driver, you can bet I'd pick one up for my kid.

~~~
corresation
I have OnStar for similar reasons -- primarily as a safety device -- however
it retains three rather large benefits-

1) OnStar is a hardened part of the vehicle, built specifically to endure a
high speed collision. Someone's smartphone in the center console would likely
be ejected or demolished by the same.

2) The two way voice phase before initiating emergency services gives comfort
that there aren't false emergency calls that can get you in legal or financial
troubles.

3) Via the antenna on the car (raised, on the outside of the vehicle, large),
I can confidently say that OnStar has given me connectivity in many cases
where my smartphone has none.

I'm not trying to be an ad for OnStar, but based upon those facts I can't make
the economic decision that this is a replacement for that. For someone who
doesn't have OnStar as an option this would likely be fine, but just thought
it was worth mentioning that.

