
How To Fly Without ID - jmonegro
http://www.lookingglassnews.org/printerfriendly.php?storyid=7040
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ryanwaggoner
According to this article from Wired last year, TSA changed the rules so that
now you can only fly without an ID if you _claim_ that you lost it. So
essentially they're giving up any increased security advantage (real or
imagined) that comes from a mandatory ID requirement, for the purpose of
sending the message that challenging authority will not be allowed.

<http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/06/tsa-nixes-flyin/>

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mildavw
Hmm. The article is not coming up for me at the moment. But that won't stop me
from commenting!

I accidentally traveled without ID last year. My drivers license is the only
picture ID I carry. I'd given it over to test drive a baby seat at a store,
and forgot to get it back. Left for vacation the next day.

My stops were Portland, San Jose, and Austin. At all three airports I
explained my situation, showed them my YMCA card (or library or credit card or
something) and they marked my boarding pass for special security. The
processes were not draconian, just a pat down, and actually faster than the
regular security line. I skipped the line and went to some designated place on
the side, zipped through the pat down, and then had to wait for my properly
ID'd wife every time.

YMMV, but based on my experience, I highly recommend traveling without an ID!

~~~
zackattack
Speaking of highly recommending traveling without an ID, on my way back from
school last year, I got really stoned in my friend's car on the way to the
airport. Me being stoned, I left my wallet in the car, and ended up at the
airport with no ID.

I also got to go through the much-faster special screening, but I had to step
into a chamber where they puffed you with air. Not for weed scent, for bombs,
though I was mildly concerned at the time.

All in all a fun experience. Next time there's a big line at security, I'm
going to tell them that I forgot my id. w00t

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torpor
Weed often sets off the bomb sensors, since the high concentration of
fertilizers produce similar signatures ..

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zackattack
I don't believe you. Prove it.

~~~
torpor
Bomb detectors are designed to pick up traces of nitrates, the theory being
that if you are making a DIY bomb, you're going to go the ammonia-nitrate
route.

Nitrates exist in fertilizer - and thats what folks make bombs out of.

Weed is often fertilized with nitrates, and trace amounts of these elements
are present in your sweat, in your pee, and so on. When you go through a bomb
detector after a heavy weed weekend or so, you're going to be flagged for
closer inspection.

This was explained to me by a security agent at an airport I was travelling
through after a heavy week in Amsterdam.

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zepolen
"...could not bar an American citizen from boarding a plane, even if a
passenger refused to produce any identification at all!"

How exactly can you know if someone is an American citizen if they don't show
any government approved ID saying so?

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jrockway
People like to use the word "citizen" for some reason, even when it is not
accurate. The protections of the US Constitution apply to all "people", not
all "citizens". The word "citizen" mostly occurs when referring to voting and
running for office (both which do require citizenship).

Everyone gets a jury trial, free speech, etc.

~~~
ionfish
People like to use the word "citizen" because it's a way of broadcasting their
tribal identity. These little war dances are generally done by people with
citizenship of high-status nations; one doesn't tend to see people going
around bragging about how they are Togolese citizens, for example. However,
it's certainly not a behaviour limited to Americans: I've seen plenty of Brits
and Canadians do it too.

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devin
Did anyone else notice this is from 2006? Anyone know if this is still
possible? Was it _ever_ possible?

The reason I ask is: <http://www.lookingglassnews.org/> does not look like the
pinnacle of journalistic integrity. The author of this story certainly sounds
intelligent, but all of the conspiracy theory crap on this site makes me
wonder.

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jgfoot
It is true that if you simply don't have proper ID -- your wallet was stolen,
for example -- it's still possible to fly; I think this involves going through
the "heightened" pat-down screening. But you are correct that rant-ish reports
posted on sketchy web sites that make broad assertions of constitutional law
are generally good sources of entertainment, but not legal advice.

John Perry Barlow (of EFF fame) litigated this issue in late 2006. He lost at
every step. What came out of that is that the TSA does indeed have a written
regulation requiring you show government ID, but that regulation is secret.
Info on his litigation is at <http://papersplease.org/gilmore/>

~~~
jrockway
_But you are correct that rant-ish reports posted on sketchy web sites that
make broad assertions of constitutional law are generally good sources of
entertainment, but not legal advice._

Honestly, I think these folks have a better idea of what the intent of the
Constitution was than many of the justices on the Supreme Court. Like
anything, the Supreme Court is mostly about politics these days, rather than
protecting anyone's rights. (Sometimes both interests are aligned, of course,
but many times they are not; especially with respect to ID.)

~~~
praptak
_Honestly, I think these folks have a better idea of what the intent of the
Constitution was than many of the justices on the Supreme Court._

Sorry to say that, but "good source of legal advice" is by definition one that
works in court, not one with high moral ground.

~~~
jrockway
Yes, definitely.

Incidentally, I have some recent US coins that say, "Live free or die," but it
doesn't seem socially acceptable to have that attitude anymore.

"Live in constant fear of the government and live" doesn't have the same
ring...

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weisthefunk
Thank you for returning my faith in civil rights and the US Constitution. The
home of the free and the land of the brave is at grave risk of becoming
extinct as long as good men and women sit and watch their basic freedoms
eroded continuously in the name of fighting illusionary 'terrorists'

~~~
gluejar
the article is a bit stale. This page is up to date:
<http://epic.org/privacy/airtravel/>

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jrockway
Something I want to try; get on the "no fly" list, legally change my name to
something completely different (in a very small town, of course), legally get
updated ID, and see how long it takes before I am on the "no fly" again.

(My guess is never.)

Incidentally, my credit report thinks my name is "Johnathan Rockway", which is
a name I've never used on any credit card, nor one that appears on any ID I
have ever possessed. Accurate!

~~~
mdasen
On the last part, I'd caution you to look into that. I had a name that wasn't
mine on my credit report and soon other things started appearing on my report
that weren't my accounts. A lot of companies that report to the credit
agencies just report the last four of your SSN and name. I started getting
calls for someone that wasn't me from collections agencies.

~~~
jrockway
Well, it is just one letter added to my real name. So probably someone fucking
up data entry, not someone misusing my identity.

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jvdh
The last of the regulations seems to imply that it is possible to fly
internationally without an ID. I have no idea what you would accomplish by
boarding an internation airplane without an ID, because you will get sent back
once you get there. There is no way the other country will accept you without
a passport.

~~~
ryanwaggoner
I'm sure there is some procedure for handling citizens who have lost their
passports.

~~~
arjunnarayan
Yes, but it involves contacting your nearest consulate/embassy before boarding
the plane. They normally verify some stuff internally (which is why it helps
immensely to have photocopies that speed up the process as that contains the
relevant numbers/barcodes that allow them to look you up quickly) and then
they give you an "emergency travel document" or a new passport, depending on
the situation. The ETD lets you travel back to your home country and then
handle things from there.

~~~
miracle
If you have lost your passport, you have to go to a police station and make a
claim. You can only board the plane with that claim (and there is normaly a
police station on every major airport)

And PS: I hope that they wouldn't let in the ignorant author of the article in
without a valid passport.

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adatta02
Extremely interesting. Last March I actually tried to switch the name on an
American Airlines ticket and the agent on the phone informed that it was
impossible to switch the name on a ticket. She went so far as to claim the
computer system didn't even support name changes. I called her out on that and
then she told me that federal law prohibits name changes on tickets.

Assuming this article is valid - how would an airline even know that the name
on the ticket doesn't match if I refuse to produce ID? (it was a domestic
flight so no passport)

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robk
The rules in the US seem to have changed this summer to require ID in almost
every case. See Flyertalk's security forum here:
[http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-
security/984568...](http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-
security/984568-oh-oh-rules-seem-have-changed-pv.html)

Very disappointing and arguably unconstitutional.

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wkdown
The downside of this was not pointed out unless one read the whole snippet:

 _EMPTY THE LUGGAGE OR ITEM AND PHYSICALLY SEARCH ITS CONTENTS BY A QUALIFIED
SCREENER_

Yeah, you got on the plane without showing ID. But if they really wanted to,
they could determine who you are in other ways (DNA from hair on clothing,
etc)

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yread
Very interesting article. I wonder how does it work in the EU. Have to get
some legal friend to have a look at it! Perhaps I could have exchanged air
tickets with people couple of times already...

~~~
salvadors
Flying within a country is different from crossing international borders. Even
within Schengen many (most?) countries still require visitors to be holding a
valid travel document (passport or ID card). Random spot-checks are often
carried out close to borders (although by local police, rather than
immigration or border guards).

I'd certainly be interested in discovering whether airlines are _required_ to
confirm that passengers have these.

Many airlines now also require 'official' ID for flights even within a
country, but AIUI that's purely airline policy rather than a legal
requirement.

~~~
jvdh
I've actually been checked in Holland by customs when coming home from a
Schengen country.

He asked me to show an ID, I asked "why?", and he just responded "Because I
say so". I was a bit too flabbergasted and not prepared for that answer and
just showed him. He then proceeded to someone else who was even requested to
come to the counter and let his bags get checked.

I'm curious whether I was actually required to do so.

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miracle
Yeah, play hard ball and you hopefully will go to jail. What's the problem of
showing your id?

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jvdh
The problem is that in the Netherlands there now is a law requiring you to
show an ID if the cops ask for it. However, this was allowed with the
provision that the cops had a sensible reason for doing so, i.e. you broke the
law, or you were doing something suspicious.

I see no reason why it is any of the cops business to know who I am when I'm
just walking down the street.

Same situation applies at the border, there is a seperate section for Schengen
countries in the Amsterdam airport and you normally get in and out without
showing an ID. I see no reason why it suddenly is any business to the customs
officer to see who I am.

~~~
jrockway
I agree with you, but couldn't someone from a non-Schengen country claim that
they are from Schengen?

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salvadors
I think he's talking about the gates that handle flights to/from Schengen
countries being in a different part of the airport, before passport control.
The assumption is that once you're in Schengen the border guards at the first
entry point should have ensured you're allowed to be there.

However, in every airport where I've seen that, I've certainly been able to
get as far as the gate without ID (particularly if I've a pre-printed boarding
pass), but I've always needed either a passport or EU member state ID card to
actually get on the plane.

If you can get on without your ID, however, there are generally no checks at
all at the far end.

~~~
jrockway
Ah, OK, this makes sense. I admit that I don't think much about immigration or
customs when I am arriving in Europe because it is all so simple. It's only
when arriving in the US that I dread the experience. (And I am a natural-born
US citizen.)

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edw519
I fly often and can't imagine going through any of this just to prove a point.
I always print my boarding pass at home, never check bags, go directly to
security, and use my frequent flyer card to go through the express line. I
show my driver's license for inspection, but no data from it is ever recorded.
IMO, a small price to pay to move quickly through the airport.

~~~
kingandcountry
I can't imagine going through this whole revolution just to start my own
country. All I have to do is give a toast to King George and pay a tax on tea,
a small price to pay to stay part of Britain.

~~~
ramchip
Canada did get out of it without a revolution. I get your point, though.

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californiaguy
If you're in the US just tell them your wallet was stolen.

They'll put you in another line and often times it'll actually be faster than
the main security line.

I've done this multiple times, the first time after I actually did lose my
wallet in Vegas and had to fly back home. Apparently it happens all the time.

