
US Navy Patent Antigravity Device - blopeur
https://www.blopeur.com/2020/05/01/navy-patent-antigravity.html
======
pp19dd
Think this is from June of last year. The Drive broke the story about the
patents: [https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/28729/docs-show-
navy-g...](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/28729/docs-show-navy-got-ufo-
patent-granted-by-warning-of-similar-chinese-tech-advances)

The journalists pursued a two prong strategy for this story. First one was
verifying the cockpit videos released years ago via FOIA requests (that was a
surprise) that only recently got released by the Navy (a bigger surprise.)

The second prong was their investigation of a supposed scientist working for
NAWCAD, named "Dr. Salvatore Cezar Pais." Think physicists have looked at the
patents and called it word spaghetti. One of the patents literally starts
defining how to control gravity.

The journalists are still not sure whether this is a real person doing fraud
backed by ignorant leadership trying to save face desperately or a purposeful
psyop operation headed by a made-up name and designed to drain foreign
government research budgets.

~~~
polytely
I think this is the most recent article they had about this subject

[https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/31798/the-secretive-
in...](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/31798/the-secretive-inventor-of-
the-navys-bizarre-ufo-patents-finally-talks)

It's a fascinating story, I hope someone gets to the bottom of this.

~~~
kipchak
There are a few explanations I can think of, and each of them is rather
strange.

1\. The whole thing is a dis-info campaign to hook a near adversary into
thinking we have spooky next gen technology. This all being public makes me
lean this way. Similarly perhaps this is being used as a cover story for some
impressive but not physics defying drones, similarly to how "UFOs" were used
as an diversion away from projects like Mogul or the f-117 and B-2.

2\. Pais is a conman, scamming the military into funding his fraudulent tech.

3\. Pais is a breakthrough genius. The Tech is real and in years it will be
revealed to the public.

4\. The "Bob Lazar" option. "UFOs" as in foreign objects exist and
occasionally crash, and are studied and reverse engineered when they do.

It's interesting to note that Pais was recently transferred to submarine
command.

~~~
winkeltripel
> Pais is a breakthrough genius. The Tech is real and in years it will be
> revealed to the public.

Or it's already installed on Nimitz-class carriers (with huge tires tucked
into hidden underwater pods). The navy is just waiting for a serious war to
warrant revealing land-carriers capable of driving hundreds of miles inland.

~~~
Psyladine
If not, at least when they decommission the old carriers we can have some
serious monster truck rallies.

------
dplavery92
The "background" section of this particular patent [0] _starts_ pretty sane
(if obviously a little grandiose--enough to get one's guard up) but rapidly
and suddenly dips off the rails. The trouble is that the mostly unintelligible
details about "hyper-frequency" rotational and vibrational coupled modes are
interspersed in a bunch of technically correct--if vapid--physical statements
about quantum fields pervading all of spacetime, and other phenomena being
emergent of excitations in these fields. (Notwithstanding the fact that
uniting QFT with gravity is the biggest open problem in Physics today...)

I think this is an illustrating case in how much easier it is to create high-
falutin' nonsense than it is to debunk it. Most of the claims are somewhat
vague but they touch on areas where someone needs a lot of knowledge and
precision to coherently dispute them.

I highly recommend reading a patent lawyer's research into the history of this
particular patent from the last time it was posted here[1]. Apparently the
examiner tried to reject the patent claim several times on technical bases,
against the protest of some Navy brass, before finally admitting it without
comment months later.

[0]
[https://patents.google.com/patent/US10144532B2/en](https://patents.google.com/patent/US10144532B2/en)
[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19763445](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19763445)

~~~
phkahler
>> I think this is an illustrating case in how much easier it is to create
high-falutin' nonsense than it is to debunk it.

Are there jobs around as debunkers? Sometime I think I'd be good at that. It
seems like someone should have a vested interest in having accurate models of
reality and being able to spot BS.

~~~
dplavery92
Ironically, in the DoD contracting world there are roles like this; SETA
(systems engineering and technical assurance) and SME (subject matter expert)
contracting roles from disinterested third parties are usually a required
function in DoD acquisition programs. These folks are basically paid skeptics
of the work being done by the prime contractors, which is a good failsafe to
build in for >$100MM tax-funded programs and for weapons and vehicles that can
kill people. In this particular case, though, the hokum is coming internally
from a government lab, and the work is early research, so it doesn't have to
meet the same validation standards.

------
Endlessly
Appears the scientist [1] that filed this patent has a history of filing
patents that “stretch the limits of science” — which to me increases the odds
the only thing being stretched is the truth:

[1]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvatore_Pais](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvatore_Pais)

~~~
dplavery92
Right, and among them are more[0] patents held by the US Navy for high-
temperature superconductors and "high frequency gravity wave generators." It's
clear he has at least one patron within the DoD; it's a shame that the
technical oversight over this program is so credulous.

[0]
[https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Salvatore+Cezar+Pais](https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Salvatore+Cezar+Pais)

~~~
philwelch
Unless they’re in on the joke and the goal is to fool foreign governments into
chasing down pseudoscientific rabbit holes.

~~~
astronautjones
far more likely it's a grift (e.g. to the stars academy, remote viewing
companies like SRI Int'l in the 60s-80s, etc)

------
WJW
From 2016 already. Note from the wikipedia page of the filer of this patent:
"His patent applications on behalf of his employers have attracted
international attention for their potential military and energy-producing
applications, but also doubt about their feasibility, and speculation that
they may be misinformation intended to mislead the United States' strategic
adversaries about the direction of United States defense research."

In particular it's pretty wild that:

\- this effect does not seem to have been replicated in outside laboratories

\- the US military would willingly share details about how it works through
the patent system while they can also just not tell anyone.

~~~
bhhaskin
The US military also has a mechanism in place to prevent classified tech from
being patented.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invention_Secrecy_Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invention_Secrecy_Act)

It is a pretty good example of how the patent system is broken. Like for
example someone patenting dropdowns...

[https://patents.justia.com/patent/10078623](https://patents.justia.com/patent/10078623)

------
brummm
If this were true (I doubt it), that's an insanely short patent (6 pages) with
barely any information about the device. How would something like this get
approved. That's insane.

~~~
lisper
It's easy to get a patent on just about anything. I have a patent for a
faster-than-light communications device:

[https://patents.google.com/patent/US7126691B2/en](https://patents.google.com/patent/US7126691B2/en)

I filed it as an exercise to see if you can get a patent on a device that
violates the laws of physics. Turns out you can.

~~~
inscionent
So I can use you patent to send the patent back in time, generating prior art,
which caused your patent to never exist.

~~~
lisper
Well, you could if it worked, but it doesn't, so you can't :-)

------
hirundo
"As [Baron Vladimir Harkonnen] emerged from the shadows, his figure took on
dimension — grossly and immensely fat. And with subtle bulges beneath folds of
his dark robes to reveal that all this fat was sustained partly by portable
suspensors harnessed to his flesh. He might weigh two hundred Standard kilos
in actuality, but his feet would carry no more than fifty of them."

As I've gotten older and fatter this seems like a better idea. I'm ready for
my portable suspensors now please. This may help to solve the Navy's problem
with obesity among recruits.

~~~
AtlasBarfed
Your comment reminds me of a news service reporting on some previous
levitation/antigrav tech. The application they suggested was "floating burn
victims in hospitals".

That's the best you can think of for a floating-things technology???

------
rurban
The tech behind is sound. There do exist similar "antigravity" devices. And
patents.

The problem is to make gravitomagnetic fields efficient. Currently it's barely
measurable. Pais' idea does look good, esp. the idea to hook up two such
spinning superconductors and twist their axis a bit. That's the UFO patent.
AFAIK he is trying to build such a thing with the navy right now. In the lab
in my city they tried similar things, but their lab is very small, and they
cannot verify Pais' idea. The navy should be good enough. Interesting
moonshot, but probably nothing will come out of it.

------
peter_d_sherman
There's an expression, with respect to rock music: "Before any artist did
anything, Elvis did everything..."

Or, with respect to classical music, substitute Mozart or Beethoven for
Elvis...

With respect to this kind of stuff, there was John Ernst Worrell Keely:

Hans von Lieven: KeelyTech: Paper on John Ernst Worrell Keely

[https://merlib.org/node/5064](https://merlib.org/node/5064)

"Before the Navy did anything, Keely did everything..."

Also, if you're going to study Keely, watch out -- there's a lot of fake news
and disinformation...

------
simonh
Build a craft with a cold fusion power plant, an EM-Drive propulsion system,
one of these babies for lift, and an Alcubierre drive for once it breaks orbit
you'd really have something.

~~~
thechao
This would be shittiest Star Trek knock off series _ever_. I’m imagining the
“aliens” would be the weirder residents of SoCal?

------
paypalcust83
The USN has been watching too much Macross in their free time. And couple this
with fuzzy deep fake videos, media complicity, and high-ranking "reliable
authorities" behaving as actors must be getting a good kick out of trolling
the public for "natsec" "reasons." Without independently-verifiable evidence,
big claims are most likely big yarns.

~~~
AtlasBarfed
In macross, the antigrav generators broke through the fuselage and floated
away. They needed to use good old rockets/propulsion to get to space.

------
mrlala
[Patent Clerk] Anti-gravity... um... anti-depressant? I could put you through
to someone on that?

------
ttizya20
Let's be clear about one thing, it is far more likely that this object is
terrestrial. Going off of this, thee country most likely to pull this off
would the the United States.

------
Zenst
"polarized vacuum" I'm sure those two words could be elaborated upon,
certainly does seem to be a couple of nice words when put together make you go
- errrm

~~~
dhimes
yeah- something akin to the casimir effect?

~~~
Zenst
Maybe, though it's that detail which is lacking and making it all just a bit
too vague.

------
3fe9a03ccd14ca5
I’m glad to see this again. This patent is the first thing I thought of when
the “UFO” admission news hit last week. I’m guessing what we’re seeing is
probably some experimental stuff. Hopefully it’s our stuff.

------
dogma1138
If it worked it would be classified.

------
pwpwp
Is this related to the EmDrive?

~~~
lisper
Yes, insofar as neither one of them actually works.

~~~
nihil75
I lold :D

------
historyremade
Look, In this world there lot of criminals that break the law so what are the
odds breaking this universal laws?

------
glitchc
A bit late for April Fools...

------
Grimm665
Have they accidentally invented time travel yet?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primer_(film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primer_\(film\))

------
amelius
I don't know anything about quantum vacuum but from reading this I assume that
the entire mechanism follows trivially from the underlying physical
properties. Or in other words, wasn't this application apparent when
physicists theorized these properties in the first place? And shouldn't the IP
belong to the public which subsidized the research?

~~~
simiones
IF the patent were not a fraud or disinformation (it certainly is one of
these), then it would not "follow trivially", it would be the biggest
discovery in physics in 50-100 years. It would be monumental.

Unfortunately, it is either fraud or some kind of disinformation.

