
Thousands of U.S. locales where lead poisoning is worse than in Flint - imagination
http://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-lead-testing/
======
JauntTrooper
This is a public health disaster. It's tough to really fathom the number of
children across the country that will suffer mental and behavioral problems
for life because of this.

Why are there not more lawsuits? Is the scope of the damage too difficult to
quantify, or the negligent parties too diffuse/remote to sue?

As much as our litigation-based culture is vilified, it can help spur action
by changing the cost/benefit of doing nothing and force companies/governments
to step up and fix this before more people are hurt. The risk of Mesothelioma
lawsuits, for example, help add some seriousness to asbestos exposure claims.

~~~
ianai
I'd bet that's down the road. Only recently has testing your water for
lead/etc become cheap, easy, and relevant. If you tested your water for lead
10 years ago society would probably label you paranoid - still might in many
places.

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _If you tested your water for lead 10 years ago society would probably label
> you paranoid_

New York City sends you a free lead test kit, if you ask for it [1].

[1] [http://www1.nyc.gov/nyc-resources/service/1266/water-lead-
te...](http://www1.nyc.gov/nyc-resources/service/1266/water-lead-test-kit-
request)

------
kem
Aside from the disturbing levels of lead poisoning in some locations, this
also reveals how little is publicly knowable about lead levels in some areas.
It really paints a picture of widespread problems and obstructions to shining
a light on them.

------
sytelus
I went to my water utility's website to find out their numbers. First I was
shocked that they publish their numbers only once a year! And even in that
report they say last lead measurement was in 2013 because Department of Health
only requites measurement every 3 years! With Trump about to set loose entire
Oil, gas and fracking industry like never before this might get lot worse.

------
anigbrowl
_Instead, Reuters sought testing data at the neighborhood level, in census
tracts or zip code areas, submitting records requests to all 50 states._

Too bed there's no way to study the dataset directly short of repeating the
process.

~~~
toomuchtodo
I'll pay for and perform the FOIA requests through muckrock.com if you do the
analysis.

~~~
lettergram
Here is my experience FOIA requesting 100+ universities:

[http://austingwalters.com/foia-
requesting-100-universities/](http://austingwalters.com/foia-
requesting-100-universities/)

In short, you often have to get on the phone, email, snail mail, go in person,
and pay quite a bit to get records. It's a very painful process. Careful what
you offer lol

~~~
walrus01
summary of the new star wars movie: the tale of an extremely complicated and
costly FOIA request

~~~
pryelluw
This is the best star wars joke Ive read in a long time. Brilliant. :D

------
randomnumber314
I put together a search engine[1] for this very thing a few months ago. The
data is publicly available, but obscure and usually buried in poorly described
.gov city pages.

[1][http://bit.ly/2h5yGNg](http://bit.ly/2h5yGNg)

------
ap22213
I remember reading years ago about how water utilities were replacing chlorine
with chloramine because it was cheaper. From what I understand, chloramine is
more corrosive and it erodes the lining in the lead pipes. Does anyone know if
it's standard practice for water companies to do their quality sampling at the
taps?

------
toodlebunions
Will they get the same attention?

Will the nation ever upgrade and repair ancient and disastrous infrastructure?

~~~
bmj
In my area (Western PA), the water authority is working to replace lead
service lines, but only to the curb. Unfortunately, it is up to the homeowner
to replace the line from the curb to the house. This is quite expensive, and
depending on the topography, requires a significant amount of digging.

This is not an excuse, but I think it's important to point out in some cases,
the issues with lead are on private property, and some municipalities just
can't afford to fix everything.

~~~
olegkikin
Wait, what? They have actual lead pipes for drinking water? That's insane.

~~~
toomuchtodo
It's safe as long as the water chemistry doesn't leach the pipes. If it does,
and you're not using agents in the water to stop it, you get Flint, MI.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis)

"The Flint water crisis is a drinking water contamination issue in Flint,
Michigan, United States that started in April 2014. After Flint changed its
water source from treated Detroit Water and Sewerage Department water (which
was sourced from Lake Huron as well as the Detroit River) to the Flint River
(to which officials had failed to apply corrosion inhibitors), its drinking
water had a series of problems that culminated with lead contamination,
creating a serious public health danger. The Flint River water that was
treated improperly caused lead from aging pipes to leach into the water
supply, causing extremely elevated levels of the heavy metal neurotoxin."

~~~
seanp2k2
Is anyone else not totally cool with showering and drinking water with
flouride, chlorine, and inhibitor chemicals? APEC Water makes a great counter-
top tankless RO filtration system for $200 that takes 10 mins to install and
doesn't require any permanent mounting (so it's fine to use in apartments).
The only downside is that unlike filter taps with a reservoir tank, you only
get the RO membrane rate of flow (~2GPH depending on your water pressure) so
you kinda need to fill up a jug and keep it in the fridge, otherwise an 8oz
glass of water takes about a minute to fill.

~~~
OrwellianChild
What's the risk here? Fluoride helps control dental health and chlorine keeps
biological contaminants at bay. These are beneficial for your health! If you
really don't want chlorine in your drinking water (or don't like the taste),
you can let it sit in an open container for a couple hours - it will just
evaporate...

------
hkmurakami
It looks like California is relatively clean on this scale, but what about the
Superfund sites? I feel like those are gray areas that get much less attention
than I would expect. With former semiconductor fab sites and former military
sites getting increasingly developed with sometimes only a few feet of topsoil
removed for cleanup (plus some kind of shielding material?), and a seeming
lack of hard data for long term health impact, count me among the concerned.

(happy to have my worries put to rest by HN'ers!)

~~~
seanp2k2
Yeah, can't wait for them to try bringing manufacturing back to America.
Hopefully California will shut anything like that down.

~~~
neohaven
Because having it elsewhere is better?

Here we'd have the resources to hopefully make it safe(r). China doesn't give
a damn about the environment.

------
tboyd47
When it comes to testing your water, some counties offer home testing services
to concerned residents for free. I urge everybody with kids or thinking of
having them to check your local county government's website for information.
Even if the water treatment facility in your area is free of lead, the pipes
in your home or neighborhood might not be.

------
tn13
It is hard to sue government. It is even harder to make them lose their jobs.
When it comes to compensation they will simply use our own money to pay back.

Utilities remains a major pain in USA partly because of the ridiculous
government control which invariably leads to corruption.

I have been exclusively using distilled water in Sunnyvale for last 3 years.
Water in Sunnyvale has dangerous levels of pesticides if not lead.

~~~
emodendroket
I don't see any reason to think totally privatizing and deregulating utilities
would be any safer.

~~~
mdpopescu
Here's one: companies like repeat customers.

~~~
Tempest1981
Remember PG&E and the San Bruno fire? Companies fight hard to deny liability
when they harm their customers. There is no competition in many cases.

[http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/07/27/san-bruno-blast-pge-
cr...](http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/07/27/san-bruno-blast-pge-criminal-
case-goes-to-the-jury/)

~~~
emodendroket
Assuming you can even figure out you're being slowly poisoned.

------
zaroth
So Reuters is finally getting around to doing their job; moving beyond a
sensationalized story which sells ads, to the unglamorous work of uncovering
the truth, that Flint isn't special at all and that the government knew that
and has been covering it up.

It's a shame they couldn't get around to reporting the truth behind the
sensation a year ago when public outcry was enough to get substantial Federal
funding allocated to fixing this nation-wide.

First there should be a Federal law requiring disclosure of testing data
nationwide, and the full sets should be put online in standardized formats.

Childhood lead rates should be shown next to walkability score and crime stats
on Realtor sites. Home sellers should be mandated to report their local area
exposure rates at the time of sale.

Second, setup a super-fund type cash pool which provides for remediation of
the top X% of effected areas.

Third, new laws for mandatory testing and reporting, and fines and felonies
for underreporting, misreporting, or falsifying reports of childhood lead
exposure.

Here's to hoping that major infrastructure spending includes the unglamorous
water mains replacements as much as the more glamorous monument-style
projects.

~~~
gozur88
Flint made news because the problem was new. Flint water used to be safe, and
then it became unsafe.

There are a lot of problems nobody bothers with because they're not new
problems.

~~~
rileymat2
Flint also made news because local control was subverted by the state to make
the decision.

~~~
drunkpotato
Not the state as a generic entity, _Republicans_ specifically, neocons with a
very specific ideological privatization agenda practicing good old disaster
capitalism by wrecking the state budget then claiming the need to privatize
and cut budgets. It's important to point out what actually happened (is
happening, will continue to happen), and not gloss over it by pretending it's
a generic government problem.

~~~
gozur88
>Not the state as a generic entity, Republicans specifically, neocons with a
very specific ideological privatization agenda practicing good old disaster
capitalism...

That's biased enough to be wrong. Flint wasn't in receivership because of
Republicans, and in fact the mayor, a Democrat, signed on to the plan to use
water from the Flint river. A plan which, by the way, was conceived by the
city's emergency manager, also a Democrat.

