

Icelandic Pirate Party enters parliament - tellarin
http://falkvinge.net/2013/04/28/icelandic-pirate-party-wins-enters-parliament/

======
SagelyGuru
Congratulations to the Icelandic Pirate Party on entering the national
parliament with three MPs!

The name "Pirates" does not mean robbers but is meant to indicate an analogy
between the freedom of the international seas and the freedom of the internet.

Pirate Parties are now established in many countries. The core ideas of their
policies are: direct democracy, transparency, free internet.

~~~
mseebach
> The name "Pirates" does not mean robbers but is meant to indicate an analogy
> between the freedom of the international seas and the freedom of the
> internet.

Uhm, well, no. It comes from The Pirate Bay, a website where you can download
predominantly copyrighted media without the consent of the copyright holder.
It got there (probably) ironically, as those engaged in such activities had
been labeled 'pirates'. The original pirates were not about "the freedom of
the international seas", they were simple criminals, and not of the ambiguous
kind that modern-day copyright 'pirates' are.

It all good, and I wish the pirate parties of the world the best of luck, but
let's not over-romanticize the origin of the term.

~~~
sbirchall
"Simple criminals" is a bit of a shoot-from-the-hip oversimplification, I'd
say. I wouldn't romanticize "pirates" but I do think there is a lot more to
them from a social/anthropological standing than you are letting on. A simple
google search for more in depth information can lend you hours of fascinating
reading about the culture and politics on board a typical pirate ship and I
just thought the HN comment cloud should not allow you to write them off so
cheaply. Yes, they were criminals, but they were far from simple! And as such
I don't think the use of the term is quite so simple as you are trying to make
out.

I'm currently spending a lazy Sunday afternoon reading through
[http://wp.stockton.edu/hist4690/files/2012/06/Markus-
Rediker...](http://wp.stockton.edu/hist4690/files/2012/06/Markus-Rediker-
Under-the-Banner-of-King-Death.pdf)

fascinating stuff.

[disclaimer: IANA-Historian, sea shantie junkie and one time pirate king]

~~~
mseebach
Simple _crimes_ , not simple _criminals_. Compare modern organised criminal
organisations: they're nowhere near simple, but at the end of the day, the
_crime_ itself is simple.

~~~
sbirchall
Again no, you are reducing things to an absurd degree. Organised crime is very
complex. Mugging is simple. Theft is not [necessarily] simple. The latter
subsumes the former precisely because of it's complexity. You may be talking
about something that equates to mugging, however the majority of commenters
are holding that the term you are using equates to theft in just about every
example.

Look into the Yakuza. Each 'family' can consist of many _tens of thousands of
individuals_, from the grunts to the cops and judges on the payroll to money
launderers and each one is needed to take one of your 'simple crimes' and make
it into a business for the family, so by definition they are not simple
crimes.

I think you are nit picking to backtrack on what I still hold was a shoot-
from-the-hip over-simplification. I think you are not willing to concede the
definition of a word beyond your own example despite a rich history of it's
use to the contrary.

~~~
mseebach
Simple is probably not the best word, then, but what I meant to describe was
the unambiguity of the immorality of the crime. At the end of the day, piracy
was still roughly morally equivalent to mugging, although, of course, vastly
more complex.

------
kzrdude
The booster is that (some) Icelanders demand change and are seeking out new
politicians. However, a depressing majority seems to have voted to install the
old politicians, that were part of setting up the crisis, into power again.

~~~
tellarin
Yeah, the return of the right to the majority was weird. They were exactly
those defeated on the last election after the Icelandic economy quite
literally crash and burned. :-/

~~~
olefoo
Money and self-deception work just as well in Iceland as in Britain or the US
of A.

This is a human problem that must be solved by human means.

It is tempting when looking at the corrupted nature of our current
institutions to think of technological solutions that would render our
governments incorruptible by the people using them. But it is necessary to
remember that an incorruptible institution is also an inflexible institution
and that an inflexible institution cannot adapt to changing circumstances
without breaking.

~~~
nitrogen
If most problems are "human" problems, how does applying "human" means solve
them, when those "human" means are themselves subject to "human" problems?
Wouldn't it be more effective to use something that isn't "human" or subject
to "human" problems?

Also, how does it follow that incorruptible and inflexible are mutually
inclusive?

~~~
olefoo
I think you meant mutually exclusive?

As for, "human solutions to human problems" the agonistic form of most western
legal systems, where professionals advocate for their clients and present
opposing views to someone who is supposed to be an impartial arbiter, but
whose decisions can be appealed; would be an example. It is imperfect, but
able to deal with changing circumstances. And notably human judgment is
involved at every step.

~~~
nitrogen
No, I meant inclusive :-). Why must "incorruptible" include "inflexible", and
vice versa? Though in hindsight, you're not saying that inflexible implies
incorruptible (A <-> B), only that incorruptible implies inflexible (A -> B).
Why must that be the case?

I'll simply have to disagree that involving human judgment in every step of a
process is a good thing, or that the adversarial legal system does anything
other than favor the party with more resources (instead of the party that is
more correct). Human beings are simply far too fallible, far too vulnerable to
blind spots and biases to be trusted with important decisions. I read once on
HN that removing human judgment from part of the judicial process, by
implementing sentencing guidelines in criminal cases, actually _improved_
outcomes.

------
vy8vWJlco
This is good news, but it reflects a hardening bifurcation (in that some
people are strongly pro-copyright, and others are strongly for a roll-back or
reform of imaginary monopoly law). I wish playing politics wasn't necessary,
and that none of the rallying and competitive commentator insults were needed
to keep everyone from feeling persecuted. At the moment, however, the "sharing
is caring" thinkers are still under-represented in official roles IMHO (there
are more than are given credit, or are able to speak up meaningfully), so this
is at least a step towards a fairer dialog in Iceland, and around the world.

~~~
mg74
There's no hardening bifurcation in Iceland around this issue. No one is
speaking the pro-copyright voice since it is hard for local politicians geting
worked up about teenagers downloading American tv shows. We have a local pro-
copyright lobby group (industry association) that has had some success; mostly
getting CD's and DVD's taxed, pressuring police authorities doing some token
raids every three years and having local torrent sites closed down.

------
MrUnderhill
Interesting. The newly established Norwegian Pirate Party (
<http://piratpartiet.no/> ) will also be running in the parliamentary election
this September.

~~~
mtgx
There's the German federal election in September, too.

~~~
brazzy
And the chances of the German Pirate Party of surpassing the 5% threshold are,
at this time, zero. They'll probably fall below the 2% they got in the 2009
elections before they even became newsworthy.

------
denzil_correa
A note from the article

    
    
        During the night, the support for the Icelandic Pirate Party 
        briefly fell below the five-percent barrier to entry, making the 
        outcome uncertain and the polls wrong. As of 1000 UTC, with all 
        the votes counted, the Pirate Party’s support is at 5.1% with 
        three seats. Article text has been updated to reflect this.

------
ExpiredLink
The much hyped German Pirate Party already dissolved. They had their 3 months
of fame. You cannot sustain a party without substance.

~~~
brazzy
It hasn't dissolved at all; it has merely suffered a spectacular continuous PR
clusterfuck that has demolished its chances for years to come, but public
memory is short and the issues their platform centers on are only going to
become more important. A resurgence is questionable but possible, and
hopefully by then they'll have learned a thing or two about realpolitik and
organization.

------
youngerdryas
Soon we will be able to get any movie for free...oh wait, we already can.

~~~
qu4z-2
I feel like you are perhaps missing the point of and ideology behind the
Pirate Party(s).

Their focus is much more on personal privacy, government transparency, and
sensible copyright reform than it is about "Free movies".

~~~
youngerdryas
That was kind of the point, this article is vapid and no details are given
except they are pirates. I guess I should have posted my other comment saying
how falkvinge is the Rosa Parks of this generation but I got too depressed.

~~~
qu4z-2
Ah, sarcasm is hard to read over the internet. Sorry 'bout that.

------
drakaal
Hence forth Iceland will honor this day with a National Talk Like a Pirate
Day.

Unfortunately since the Pirate Party members are primarily computer geeks,
talking like them doesn't involve nearly as many Argh, Matey, and Ahoy's as
the general population would like.

