
Found after 500 years, the wreck of Columbus's flagship the Santa Maria - adventured
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/exclusive-found-after-500-years-the-wreck-of-christopher-columbuss-flagship-the-santa-maria-9359330.html
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tzs
Those old ships were possibly the most efficient vehicles ever produced. They
got several thousand miles per galleon.

~~~
dredmorbius
The Clipper ships, the most advanced sailing vessels operated commercially,
could rival the speed of coal-powered steamships of their time, and even of
modern oil-powered cargo ships when "slow-steaming" rules are applied. Many
cargo ships capable of 23 knots have been restricted to 13 out of concern over
fuel consumption.

Sail offers a number of advantages over powered ships, including the freedom
from requiring fuel bunkers and costs. In a post-carbon world, among the
options for shipping is a return to the use of wind power for at least a
significant portion of shipping (and the elimination of 1/3 of hulls and
cargoes presently comprised of petroleum shipments).

John Michael Greer looked at this in a recent post on Captain Gustaf Erikson,
who maintained a fleet of commercially-operating windjammers through the mid
20th century, particularly with steel hulls and wire rigging.

It's also why you'll find navies at the forefront of research on energy
research and propulsion. There have been three major revolutions in marine
propulsion over the past two centuries: the emergence of coal in the 1850s
(much later than its use in shorter-haul shipping and railroads due to the
need to establish coaling stations -- an accomplishment demonstrated by the
voyage Great White Fleet in 1907-1909), oil starting just prior to WWI, when
Admiral of the British Navy Winston Churchill converted its fleet, and nuclear
energy following WWII under US Navy Rear Admiral Hyman Rickover, though the
latter propulsion was adopted only for aircraft carriers, submarines, and
icebreakers, with the exception of a very few other experimental nuclear
powered vessels.

Navies are at the forefront of current research into next-generation fuel
sources given the dual challenges of peak oil and global warming.

~~~
Shivetya
The US Navy did run a number of nuclear powered cruisers up through the
California class. Originally the idea was to keep up with the carriers whose
range was limited by their fossil fueled escorts. Still the nuclear powered
surface ships other than carriers fell out of favor as more efficient fossil
fueled ships came about which also had much lower man power requirements.

Considering the large surface area of many cargo and passenger ships it would
seem to indicate the possibility of some usage of solar power. The big issue
being efficient enough panel construction in the face of the harsh conditions
they would face.

~~~
mason240
How much fossils fuels will be consumed building (and then operating) the
thousands of clipper ships need to replace one massive cargo ship?

~~~
dredmorbius
First off: fossil fuels are going away. They're going to be too costly to
extract, to rare to utilize, and/or too harmful to the environment. Take your
pick. It's not as if there's a choice.

Secondly: the question isn't "how much fossil fuels", but "how much energy"
EROEI (energy returned on energy invested) is what makes the economy tick, and
it's almost certainly the most significant factor in the economic growth and
expansion of the past 250 years or so.

Absent the energy surpluses provided by fossil fuels, yeah, we'll likely be
doing less.

As for what it takes to make ships -- electrical energy (from renewable
sources) can substitute for much fossil fuel use. Coking for steel is an
exception, though that can come from where it did initially: charcoal. Or
synthesized coke. Mind that exhaustion of forests for both lumber and fuel was
among the key reasons England turned to, first seacoal, shortly after mined
coal, as its energy needs grew.

And there's no guarantee that the Universe is going to provide humans with the
energy we've become accustomed to.

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kijin
The photo looks more like a pile of rubble than anything resembling a ship.
Yeah, I probably shouldn't have expected it to look like the Swedish _Vasa_ ,
but I was still disappointed. I guess organic materials don't last as long in
the warm waters of the Caribbean as they do in the cold Baltic Sea.

Just out of curiosity, what would the conditions have to be in order for a
wooden vessel to remain recognizable after being in warm water for 500 or 1000
years? Would anoxic water help?

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ciscoriordan
The _Vasa_ was in cold, brackish water. Low salinity is good for preservation.

Sinking somewhere difficult to reach is important, to prevent salvage.

The _Vasa_ had her cannon brought up to the surface but was otherwise left
alone. I went to the museum on a whim last year and was pleasantly surprised.
It's not just the hull of the ship, everything onboard was preserved.

Really cool engineering project lesson, too. The _Vasa_ had a critical
engineering flaw (way too top heavy) that came about due to pressure from the
king. As a result, she sank as soon as she was launched on her maiden voyage!

~~~
bluedevil2k
Further, the brackish water was inhospitable for the organisms that usually
break down wood in the ocean, ship worms for example.

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rgo
I wonder if Spain will claim ownership of the ship or its contents like they
(rightfully) did with the treasures of _Nuestra Señora de las Mercedes_.

[http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-06-07/odyssey-
and-...](http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-06-07/odyssey-and-the-lost-
spanish-treasure)

The difference here is that the Santa Maria is not a warship, so I'm not sure
the same rule applies.

~~~
tanzam75
It does not matter that it is not a warship. Sovereign wrecks are owned by the
sovereign entity, whether or not they are armed.

The problem is that the _Santa Maria_ was not owned by Spain. It was owned by
Juan de la Cosa, a private citizen.

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DEinspanjer
I wonder if any of the previous salvagers of things like the cannons will be
able to recognize the newly discovered significance of what they took and
capitalize on it.. I imagine the original salvagers probably turned the items
around quickly, but anyone who is hanging on to a cannon that came out of the
water anywhere around there has got to be curious if it might be that one.

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executive
maybe they can search for MH370 now

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bgun
Wow, CNN's search for Flight 370 must have really broadened.

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zdean
“I believe that, treated in this way, the wreck has the potential to play a
major role in helping to further develop Haiti’s tourism industry in the
future,” he said.

 __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __*

Columbus was a genocidal maniac mis-credited generally for discovering the
'new world' that had been inhabited for thousands of years prior to his
arrival:

[http://boingboing.net/2013/10/10/christopher-colombus-
raping...](http://boingboing.net/2013/10/10/christopher-colombus-raping.html)

I'm not sure I understand why someone would seek to make _his_ historical
impact a tourism draw.

~~~
psychometry
You're going to be so mad when you find out what they did to Auschwitz.

~~~
srean
The last part of the parent comment was rantsy, but in my opinion did not
deserve to be down-voted past oblivion.

Back to your comment, yes Auschwitz outrages us, deservingly so, but this
state of affairs has a lot to do with the fact that the perpetrators of
Auschwitz lost. We hear a lot less outrage when the perpetrators 'won'.

