
The Macaroni in ‘Yankee Doodle’ Is Not What You Think - samclemens
http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/the-macaroni-in-yankee-doodle-is-not-what-you-think
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Animats
The author is trying to say there's some gay aspect to this, but it's really
just a country vs. city thing. That goes back a long way, at least to the
Roman Empire. There's also the Britain vs. the rest of the world thing, which
was a big deal during the days of the British Empire.

The "macaroni" outfits shown are only a slight exaggeration of 18th century
European male formal dress. The 20th century equivalent would be a zoot suit
vs. a business suit.

~~~
Cogito
The author quotes numerous original sources from the time that commented on
the 'gay aspect' of macaronis.

They make the argument that this commentary, in particular caricatures, were a
driving force behind the macaroni's change in perception in the public eye.

Perhaps these caricatures were motivated by a city vs country thing, but
seeing as there were caricatures created in the cities this seems unlikely.

 _English commentators... variously referred to macaronis as "that doubtful
gender," "hermaphrodites," and "amphibious creatures."_

 _One song described a macaroni as thus: "His taper waist, so strait and long,
/ His spindle shanks, like pitchfork prong, / To what sex does the thing
belong? / ’Tis call’d a Macaroni."_

 _The Oxford Magazine similarly described the macaroni as not belonging to the
gender binary: "There is indeed a kind of animal, neither male, nor female, a
thing of neuter gender, lately started up among us. It is called a Macaroni.
It talks without meaning, it smiles without pleasure, it eats without
appetite, it rides without exercise, it wenches without passion."_

 _in the early 1770s, Mary Darly, a cartoonist by trade, devoted so much
energy to caricaturing macaronis that her store in London became known as "The
Macaroni Print Shop." Darly’s ridicule of macaronis became the first
widespread use of the caricature as a means of social commentary._

~~~
thaumasiotes
What would be comments on a "gay aspect" today aren't necessarily so 200 years
ago, even if the wording is the same. The past is a foreign country.

Your third quote is especially unpersuasive; it lists "neither male nor
female" side by side with many other obviously hyperbolic insults, all of
which are to the effect "they're unnatural". And one of them specifically says
that macaronis are given to womanizing.

~~~
vanderZwan
The word "gay" may have changed in meaning from "cheerful to homosexual", but
being referred to as _" that doubtful gender," "hermaphrodites,"_ and _"
amphibious creatures,"_ or having questions asked about _" to what sex [the
thing belongs]?_" or being described as _" a kind of animal, neither male, nor
female, a thing of neuter gender"_ leaves very little to the imagination.

The fact that it was noteworthy and the main focus of commentary also implies
that it deviated from the norms of the time.

~~~
_benedict
You are conflating gender with sexuality. It may be a recent thing to
explicitly differentiate between them in discourse, but gender was still
distinct at the time - to insult a man's masculinity would clearly not in all
contexts imply you were calling him a homosexual. In fact I'm sure in a
majority of cases it would _not_ imply that, since insults to masculinity were
and still are quite commonplace.

More specifically, hermaphroditism does not have any clear implication of
homosexuality, and a neuter gender has an implication of _no_ sexuality. That
doubtful gender is the strongest possible insinuation, but still weak given it
clearly targets gender.

These all seem to be _immasculating_ insults, and much more convincing
arguments would need to be made to infer the implication of homosexuality. In
fact, even the article points to masculinity being the overriding theme.

If there were clearer contemporaneous examples of these phrases more
unambiguously implying homosexuality, that would be more convincing.

~~~
thaumasiotes
> gender was still distinct at the time - to insult a man's masculinity would
> clearly not in all contexts imply you were calling him a homosexual

To the classical Romans, a man having sex with men was considered to be
demonstrating _greater_ masculinity (if he was topping) than one having sex
with women; women were soft targets (as a Latin teacher of mine put it,
"anatomically passive" and therefore not so much of an accomplishment).

~~~
vorotato
The term macaroni was not used by the romans.

------
monknomo
So, hipsters and hipster hate has been around for at least 225 years?

~~~
maxerickson
I bet there is a letter from Roman times that calls out some hipster analogue.

~~~
jdminhbg
The idea that current generations are less manly and morally upright than
their forefathers is basically the defining trope of Roman literature.

~~~
ef4
Yup, when your founders were fathered by Mars and suckled by a she-wolf, you
can only go downhill from there.

~~~
snovv_crash
Interestingly, in Latin, a she-wolf (lupa) is slang for a prostitute.

For some inexplicable reason I feel that it is much more likely that they were
nursed by a prostitute than by a wolf ;-)

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AstroJetson
Nice job HN, I had a cool song to sing with the grand daughter as she ate her
artesian Kraft Mac and Cheese about our founding fathers, but now it's about
hipsters? Are hipsters the reason we can't have nice pasta based songs?

Next you'll be telling me the Oscar Meyer song isn't about baloney but some
hipster tofu loaf infused with sirachi sauce.

~~~
taneq
Artesian? You mean there's a giant underground lake of pressurized
mac'n'cheese? :D

~~~
briandear
Source please. Really.. GPS coordinates would be even better. A lake of Mac
and Cheese? If it were adjacent to a lake of RC Cola, I think I'd be set.

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gohrt
Reading between the lines a bet, (first wave) "macaroni" is what certain
hipsters called themselves, until people they didn't like started dressing
like them, at which point the hipsters mocked their mainstream followers.

This behavior was satirized in Portlandia's "Over" sketch.

Also, "metrosexual".
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlGqN3AKOsA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlGqN3AKOsA)

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jcromartie
Am I the only one that actually did learn this in school?

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j_m_b
You ain't schooling me on nothing you click-baity title. I knew this from when
I satisfied my own curiosity with wikipedia.

~~~
LTom
Likewise, though I was taught about Macaroni in a course on fashion history
before I first even heard the Yankee Doodle song.

~~~
pc86
Out of curiosity are you American? I the first time I heard Yankee Doodle I
was probably in.. first grade? Maybe second?

Just curious if there are places in the US where you wouldn't necessarily hear
the song as a child.

~~~
LTom
No, I’m not American. :-p

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thomasdub
There is a fantastic Lexicon Valley podcast episode about this [0] which draws
on most of the same evidence. It also dicusses whether the word "Dude" my have
been popularised from the same song. Definitely worth checking out! [0]
[http://www.slate.com/articles/podcasts/lexicon_valley/2014/0...](http://www.slate.com/articles/podcasts/lexicon_valley/2014/01/lexicon_valley_the_etymology_and_early_history_of_the_word_dude.html)

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losteverything
The author says

today treated as a patriotic anthem

Not in the america I grew up in. It has simple lyrics, a familiar tune and
easy to instruct children to learn and play an instrument to

~~~
fluidcruft
Maybe you just don't patriot? It's a 4th-of-July staple.

~~~
losteverything
I would suspect this is a regional difference. I live in a different area that
I was reared and we often have fun comparing the differences. like pop vs.
Soda

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eximius
So it was what I thought.

~~~
Eric_WVGG
Same. Despise this headline formula.

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yeahdef
The modern day equivalent? The Brony?

~~~
sperglord
The analogue that I thought of was metrosexual, but everyone else in the
thread is calling them hipsters.

~~~
zhemao
Is metrosexual still a thing? Haven't heard that word in years.

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anjc
It's amazing how, to this day, American fashion is still largely off the pulse
and out of step with the world.

[http://i0.kym-
cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/014/711/138...](http://i0.kym-
cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/014/711/1380697092809.jpg)

