
How to get rich without getting lucky - madmax108
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1002103360646823936.html
======
11thEarlOfMar
The highest probability for success for the 'everyday person':

\- Earn as much as you can from your own work. Take a 2nd job, change to a
higher paying job, ask for more responsibility and a raise at your current
job, go back to school for a more lucrative degree, ...

\- Spend much less than you earn. Economize, share an apartment, buy an
inexpensive car, shop at Trader Joe's and Costco, ....

\- Learn how to invest. This is really important. The most deliberate and
highest probability of ultimate success is likely mutual funds. Individual
stocks can goose it, but should only a small portion of your wealth, as they
start to bring a luck factor into the mix ...

\- Protect your investments. Health insurance is really a must in the US,
might be a must elsewhere. Work for a company that offers health insurance.
Car insurance is a must. Other insurance is probably wise.

\- Be patient. The compounding effect of investing takes a long time, but once
it gets rolling, it's pretty much unstoppable.

~~~
falcolas
Counterpoint: Your chances of dying before "making it big" and retiring are
somewhere in the 1-in-10 range. Investing works mostly because of the current
trend of artificially propping up the stock market. Any failure in your
investment strategy leave you in the same boat as the current boomer retirees
who are trying to get back in the workforce.

Not to mention, your life is going to be pretty miserable if you're working
two jobs and spending a lot of effort on living frugal. There's just something
off-putting about the thought of spending decades living frugally and working
yourself to the bone so you can retire and finally have fun.

The exemplar folks who advocate doing this, a'la Mr. Money Mustache, are real
pieces of work too. They tend to hide the fact that they went into the process
with an inheritance to fund their their nest egg and are working nearly full
time in their "retirement" as paid frugal advocates.

~~~
20years
This is a good counterpoint and something my Dad points out often. He was very
frugal, worked long hours and saved as much as he could so him and my mom
could have a good retirement. She passed away at 42, so that never happened.
He has so many regrets and wishes he invested more of his money & time in
experiences with her while she was alive.

I think there needs to be a balance. The trend of working crazy hours to save
as much as you can, living overly frugal, etc. will not always lead to
happiness or fulfillment. I like to think of it as how can I optimize my time
and finances for "life" rather than retirement. That doesn't mean I don't have
a nest egg, it just means that not everything is going into that nest egg.

~~~
Joeri
_The trend of working crazy hours to save as much as you can, living overly
frugal, etc. will not always lead to happiness or fulfillment._

This speaks to a common fallacy: the notion that happiness is a permanent
achievement. Many people believe that you work hard so eventually you can
achieve a position where you live "happily ever after". That's however not how
the brain works. Happiness is a reward mechanism for effort bearing fruit.
Once you stop doing things to become happy, eventually the happiness goes away
because the brain adapts to its situation (this also works in reverse, you can
get used to surprisingly horrible situations). The trick to being happy all
the time is doing new things that make you happy all the time.

~~~
vinceguidry
This is just silly. The brain's reward mechanism is a dopamine hit. But that's
not all there is to happiness.

~~~
Joeri
Maybe I'm explaining it wrong, here's someone who actually understands the
science explaining why happiness is not and should not be the default state of
the brain: [https://youarenotsosmart.com/2018/05/21/yanss-128-the-
neuros...](https://youarenotsosmart.com/2018/05/21/yanss-128-the-neuroscience-
of-joy-comfort-happiness-and-bliss/)

------
hguhghuff
Is Naval rich?

I think the most valuable advice in getting rich is from people who are
moderately rich.

Advice from people who aren’t rich is stupid.

Advice from billionaires seems irrelevant because their circumstances are so
exceptional.

How did the friend of a friend make $20million ... there’s an interesting
question.

I could give you advice on how to not get rich.... just make what are in
hindsight a constant flow of wrong decisions about things that could have led
to financial gain. I’m an expert at that.

~~~
ryanwaggoner
My guess: looking at his investment track record, Naval is probably quite rich
(8-9 figures) and he spends a lot of his time dealing with other pretty rich
people, both successful founders and other rich investors. Just a guess
though.

Edit: [https://angel.co/naval](https://angel.co/naval)

Investor in Uber, Twitter, Postmates, Yammer, and about 60 others. Wouldn’t
surprise me if that’s a fraction of the total. Not to mention cofounding
AngelList. I doubt he’s scraping by :)

~~~
mrnobody_67
$100m+ for sure with that portfolio. And he got liquidity on his Uber
investment with the recent deal that was offered to shareholders.

------
thisisit
I really doubt you can get rich by not being lucky. I was like Naval and
thought many of my achievements were due to sheer hard work. And then I read
this article about luck:

[http://nautil.us/blog/-the-key-to-good-luck-is-an-open-
mind](http://nautil.us/blog/-the-key-to-good-luck-is-an-open-mind)

And I got the book mentioned in the article - The Luck Factor by Richard
Wiseman.

One of the exercises in the book is to think over how things have unfolded in
your life - what would have happened if you took left inside of right when you
met your partner or got a great job? And when I thought it over, there has
been some element of luck involved. At my first job I wasn't supposed to be
there for an interview but went along with a roommate as I had nothing better
to do.

Now I believe sure you can work hard and do most of the work in Naval's list
but all of it will ensure you are lucky when you run into one of the long term
people in a long term industry. And everything will fall in place.

~~~
shams93
We have all these ideals about hard work but in reality the economy is largely
a casino. With crippling student debt most young people have been hamstrung
from the gate. Milleneals don't generate wealth like boomers because most
milleneals were effectively born into indentured servitude with the
exploitation over education. Sure you could try to go without a degree in 2017
but good luck getting your foot in the door to anything today without
education.

~~~
mrhappyunhappy
If you can’t find work, create your own. Worked for me and I’ve been at it
happily for a few years now. Best decision ever made.

~~~
apineda
What do you do if you don't mine me asking?

------
danenania
In poker, the fastest way to climb the ladder in stakes is to play a tight-
aggressive style and be conservative with your bankroll (make sure you have
plenty to cover the variance of the stakes you’re playing), but also
occasionally take ‘shots’ at higher levels with a small portion of your
bankroll. If you run good during your shot, you stay at the higher level.
Otherwise, you move back down to rebuild.

In short, you take frequent calculated risks when the downside of failure is
low. I think a similar strategy can be very effective in life.

~~~
rubicon33
This gets broken down and fails against skilled players who are adept at
noticing conservative play styles just like this. It's quickly punished by
small pots on what should be big wins. The trick isn't just conservative play,
but deceptive and difficult to track play with an underlying trend of
conservatism.

~~~
danenania
I didn't say you should play conservatively, but that you should (generally)
manage your bankroll conservatively. These are very different things.

------
keiferski
I’m going to take a contrarian view and say: figure out _why_ you want to be
rich, first. For most people, money is a proxy for respect, status, power,
security, social skills, romantic attraction from others, free time, or
otherwise.

If you can ignore the constant “only rich people are meaningful human beings”
message that is blared 24/7 from western culture, you might find that it’s
easier to just go after what you want, directly.

~~~
whatshisface
Here is a list of reasons that "enlightened" (i.e. not scrooge) people would
want to be rich:

\- The ability to secure the best medical care for yourself and your family in
a country where this takes money to do.

\- The ability to walk away from abusive employment relationships without a
second thought or any stress.

\- The ability to engage in high-level economic actions, the kind that aren't
designed for your failure. (Buying a few franchises vs. buying a payday loan)

\- The ability to, fundamentally, own yourself instead of being forced to act
according to the interests of people with the money to pay you. Maybe you'll
use that time to act in the interests of people who can't pay you.

~~~
pc86
Assuming that "rich" means "don't need to work at all, for the rest of your
life, to keep a roof over your head and food on your table," none of what you
listed require being rich.

> _The ability to secure the best medical care for yourself and your family in
> a country where this takes money to do._

I can only speak to the US but this is much more an insurance issue than a
wealth issue. When I made $30k a year I had a ~$75k surgery and it cost me
about $1200 all in, including follow-up copays with the surgeon, because I had
good insurance through my employer. I probably had $15k in credit card debt at
the time and rented a $400/mo room in someone else's house - certainly not
rich by any stretch.

> _The ability to walk away from abusive employment relationships without a
> second thought or any stress._

This is all about skills, not wealth. Most folks on HN could leave their job
today and walk into something making 95-120% of their current salary without
much issue.

> _The ability to engage in high-level economic actions, the kind that aren 't
> designed for your failure. (Buying a few franchises vs. buying a payday
> loan)_

You don't need to be rich to get a franchise loan.

> _The ability to, fundamentally, own yourself instead of being forced to act
> according to the interests of people with the money to pay you._

This is so esoteric it's hard to even know what you're trying to say here. I'm
sure you could find plenty of people with $10+ million net worths who feel
beholden to act a certain way in the interests of certain people.

~~~
systemtest
If you child gets a serious disease, can you take a year off from work to
comfort him/her and give the best possible assistance in recovery? Can you
take your child to private facilities that have individual rooms and private
tutoring so they don't miss out on education? If the best possible treatment
with a high success rate and a low-impact recovery is in Sweden, can you
arrange medical transport on a plane to get your child there?

Insurance is just to cover not dying. Being rich makes it a comfortable
experience.

~~~
rubidium
The rich think of their wealth as a strong defense; they imagine it to be a
high wall of safety.

------
shanecleveland
I've been listening the entire back catalog of NPR's "How I Built This" blog.
The interviewer always asks if their success is due to hard work, skill,
intelligence, etc. or luck. All of them acknowledge some luck is always
involved. But the best quote I recall, but don't remember he interviewee, was
"The harder I worked the more luck I found I had."

Highly recommend the podcast. At first I cherry-picked the interviews I
thought I would be interested in, but they are all good, regardless of the
company or industry.

------
orcdork
These read like cold-reading for money - broad generalisations that apply
mostly because of their broadness.

------
stcredzero
_Specific knowledge is knowledge that you cannot be trained for. If society
can train you, it can train someone else, and replace you._

If there is market value in a skill or knowledge, the market will find the
people who can be trained in it, then train them. Perhaps a talent is required
to be competitive.

Corollary: Beware of fields which have artificial gatekeeping. They are in a
disadvantageous market.

 _Become the best in the world at what you do. Keep redefining what you do
until this is true._

Borrowed from Scott Adams: It's hard to become a top 5% in a given field. It's
easy to get to the top 20%. So find two synergistic fields where you can get
to top 20%. This makes you a top 5% cross-disciplinary expert.

 _There are no get rich quick schemes. That 's just someone else getting rich
off you._

Often, it's other people getting rich off of the efforts of a huge mob, while
making a small sliver of that mob fantastically rich.

~~~
ConfusedDog
Which fields have artificial gatekeeping? Do you have any examples? I'm not
familiar with the term and couldn't find it online...

~~~
fnbr
Investment banking is one, another is corporate law. It's incredibly difficult
to get a job in either field without a degree from a top school, with top
grades. Google hires lots of people with degrees from state schools (or
without degrees!). That's not the case at, say, McKinsey. Neither job
inherently requires a degree from a top school, but it's almost a prerequisite
to get the job.

~~~
ConfusedDog
So, "artificial" would mean compliance-based validation? Good examples,
thanks!

~~~
fnbr
In this case, yes :)

u/stcredzero's example is also a great one, as over-regulation is a massive
problem. However, it's not as much of an issue for higher paying jobs, which I
think are more relevant when we're discussing high-end software engineers.

Note: I'm discussing _over_ -regulation. There's a very strong case for heart
surgeons to be highly regulated. There's a weaker case for having strict
regulations for hairdressers.

------
jacquesm
I know very few people that got rich without getting lucky and none of them
would have been rich if they had followed this list.

The majority of them simply went into finance, consulting or real estate at a
young age and invested their income smartly (retrospectively!). After the
first million rolls in if you're young enough compound returns will take care
of the rest if you can postpone altering your life-style.

~~~
thomasahle
> I know very few people that got rich without getting lucky

> [they] invested their income smartly (retrospectively!).

This sounds like a contradiction?

~~~
DEADBEEF
Well there's the old saying that "luck is where opportunity meets
preparation".

...as in "you make your own luck".

------
indescions_2018
>>> Study game theory

And you start seeing mini prisoners dilemmas in all interactions. Maybe dated,
but still loads of fun: Game of Life John Conway's _Winning Ways For Your
Mathematical Plays_

[https://annarchive.com/files/Winning%20Ways%20for%20Your%20M...](https://annarchive.com/files/Winning%20Ways%20for%20Your%20Mathematical%20Plays%20V1.pdf)

I'd add probability theory to the mix. _Computer Age Statistical Inference_ is
a modern classic

[https://web.stanford.edu/~hastie/CASI/](https://web.stanford.edu/~hastie/CASI/)

------
hyperpallium
If we define rich as not having to work, it could be achieved with a low
income, but low expenses. At an extreme, perhaps, self-sufficiency, using
knowledge and technology (even robots?) instead of back-breaking stope
subsistence farming.

You would be rich, but also poor.

~~~
anoncoward111
This is basically my life right now and I am loving every single second of it.

Another tip here is to surround yourself with people who also love having low
expenses and are adventurous and open minded.

My gf originally wanted to plan a vacation that involved a flight, hotel, and
nights out on the city.

When I took her car camping on the beach 45 mins away from our job and cooked
her dinner on the beach, for an all in budget (gas parking food etc) of like
$27, she never looked back from her newfound hobby XDD

------
jacknews
"Wealth is having assets that earn while you sleep."

If you are earning wealth while you sleep, it must be coming from somewhere.
Either it is illusory (eg interest, which is cancelled by inflation), or it is
being generated by other people working.

"Understand that ethical wealth creation is possible."

Thus, this statement is dubious in the context of "wealth while you sleep".

~~~
nopinsight
You can create software/automation system that works/creates value for users.
As a creator, you can ethically derive wealth from that value even when you
are asleep.

Added as part of a reply:

Certain systems create value in excess of individual components you put into
it. (That system may include a variety of resources that you pay market costs
for, not only just your personal labor.)

The creator of the system can earn that excess value because it wouldn't
otherwise exist. There is a term for this in an Intro to Economics textbook I
read a long time ago, but I can't recall.

~~~
jacknews
technically, yes, but you had to work to create it, and probably have to
continue to work to maintain it in the face of competition.

If you have created some kind of lock-in which allows you to extract rent
indefinitely from some initial effort, then you have some degree of monopoly,
which would be ethically questionable.

~~~
koboll
"Earn while you sleep" does not mean "conjure from thin air and then earn
perpetually". It just means creating a system that decouples time spent
working from amount of money received. As opposed to a job, where they are
tightly coupled.

------
simonebrunozzi
If you have a decent chance of getting rich (read: well-paying job or income
source), then the biggest impact on your "wealth" is going to come from two
things: your ability to invest wisely, and your ability to optimize your
taxes. (that's my two cents, of course - happy to be challenged on these two
assumptions).

Most investing relates to Real Estate. I've been involved and knee-deep into
real estate investments for most of my life, as someone who had always wanted
to "get rich" (not obsessively, but still with a strong focus). I am not rich
now, but I can't really complain.

Most real estate investments are made in a silly way. Most of the people I
gave advice to showed me countless mistakes on the way up. They could be way
richer if only they spent a few dozen hours more on understanding investing or
specifically real estate investing.

The most common mistake involves the usual "rent vs buy" dilemma. It's a hot
debate every time it comes up. There are plenty of "online calculators" that
are supposed to help you figure out what's the best decision. However, most
people ignore important factors that go beyond the financials. I believe this
is important, and in fact I wrote an extensive blog post trying to list a
dozen important questions to ask yourself when you are considering whether you
want to buy a house or not [0]. I don't mean to self-promote here, that blog
post was the result of a few hours of work, prompted by the N-th discussion on
the subject, and I believed there was a need to put something clear in
writing.

Now, when someone asks me for financial advice that relates to real estate, I
point them to the blog post first, and then I'm happy to discuss more if they
need to.

[0]: [https://medium.com/fabrica/the-rent-versus-buy-
dilemma-12-im...](https://medium.com/fabrica/the-rent-versus-buy-
dilemma-12-important-questions-5f5a7d1815f)

------
RandomCSGeek
I think a better strategy than trying to be rich is,

1\. First decide what is the median lifestyle that you want to live. Then
decide how much it costs.

2\. Next decide what are the tasks which make you most satisfied. Consider
doing those tasks that would earn you at least what is required as per above
criteria. As a rule of thumb, the most satisfying tasks(ex: world tour with
your spouse) will earn the least.

3\. Invest, so that you could switch to doing more satisfying tasks, as your
threshold of money to be earned via job will go on decreasing.

There's no point in working hard, doing a job you don't like, to earn
millions/billions, when you won't be spending most of it. After all, you might
get hit by a car today, and you'll never know how those millions of yours got
spent by your kids.

------
internetman55
I don't know why people can't be normal and just have a reasonable career plan
with reasonable savings & investment plan for retirement. Seems like people
who write on websites don't give a shit or want to work 80hours a week so they
can retire at 38

~~~
cryptozeus
Yes what's wrong with that

------
jksmith
I blew so much money on this young girl in 15,16,17 it put me in a hole and we
aren't together anymore. Was making close to 300k/yr in an area where that's a
shitload of money. I could have paid off a bunch of debt, IRS, put a chunk in
retirement, lots of stuff. Would I do it again? Oh hell yes because it was an
incredible experience. Money ain't shit unless it facilitates an experience
you'd never, ever get otherwise. There's different motivators for making
money. I've definitely found mine. Writing a new revenue generator right now
and I've written so much code I definitely wouldn't have the energy to do this
much work unless I had experienced what I did.

------
contingencies
IMHO there is a lot of terrible advice here.

"Go slow and you'll make it" puts a cap on success and is not very
stimulating. If your idea of life is sitting in a room under a roof you
nominally own watching TV with an up-with-the-Jones' car, you've already lost.

In youth while time rich invest in yourself to develop skills and experience,
focusing if possible on areas others miss and cannot learn effectively through
formal educational programs (eg. R&D, deep science, extensive practical
knowledge in a trade, languages, travel and worldliness, etc.). Never allow
rigid formal education to destroy your innate curiosity - cherish it: it is
the most powerful force for learning and achievement that you have.

Be a talented generalist, not a specialist. High value and high growth
opportunities do not emerge consistently from one area but rather general
industries. A capacity to absorb and manage cross-disciplinary knowledge
rapidly and effectively is worth ten times more than extreme specialization,
99 times out of 100. Don't over-skill in areas that age fast (eg. programming
frameworks, design fads, many formal qualifications, etc.).

In young adulthood invest in a partner, they will be your strongest asset in
times of need and provide strength, a sounding board and risk-hedging as an
alternate actor for all future ventures. If you can, find one from another
culture and continent with a different passport, perspective and language...
this will give you and any children half a world more options in the future.

Take risky career path moves. Following a crowd might help you to survive, but
never to thrive. Just make sure you accrue _some_ capital so that you have
options.

Finally, invest in high leverage opportunities in potentially high growth
businesses in which you hold substantial equity. If you can't find one, start
one. By the time you've done a couple (ideally in a couple of sectors or
markets) you'll be worth funding by deeper pockets (read: superpower obtained
- partially outsource venture risk) and quite capable at executing. Your first
successful exit will place you ahead of your peers, who you will feel empathy
and pity for realising they have wasted decades conservatively limiting their
own life experience.

------
pascalxus
my last response didn't post, so here's the link of an ordinary person doing
it: It's the invest a little and wait a long time approach: 96-Year-Old
Secretary Quietly Amasses Fortune, Then Donates $8.2 Million
[https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/06/nyregion/secretary-
fortun...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/06/nyregion/secretary-fortune-
donates.html)

------
carapace
"The Art of Money Getting" by P.T. Barnum

[https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/8581](https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/8581)

(audio book)
[https://archive.org/details/art_of_money_getting_librivox](https://archive.org/details/art_of_money_getting_librivox)

> In the United States, where we have more land than people, it is not at all
> difficult for persons in good health to make money. In this comparatively
> new field there are so many avenues of success open, so many vocations which
> are not crowded, that any person of either sex who is willing, at least for
> the time being, to engage in any respectable occupation that offers, may
> find lucrative employment.

> Those who really desire to attain an independence, have only to set their
> minds upon it, and adopt the proper means, as they do in regard to any other
> object which they wish to accomplish, and the thing is easily done. But
> however easy it may be found to make money, I have no doubt many of my
> hearers will agree it is the most difficult thing in the world to keep it.
> The road to wealth is, as Dr. Franklin truly says, "as plain as the road to
> the mill." It consists simply in expending less than we earn; that seems to
> be a very simple problem. Mr. Micawber, one of those happy creations of the
> genial Dickens, puts the case in a strong light when he says that to have
> annual income of twenty pounds per annum, and spend twenty pounds and
> sixpence, is to be the most miserable of men; whereas, to have an income of
> only twenty pounds, and spend but nineteen pounds and sixpence is to be the
> happiest of mortals. Many of my readers may say, "we understand this: this
> is economy, and we know economy is wealth; we know we can't eat our cake and
> keep it also." Yet I beg to say that perhaps more cases of failure arise
> from mistakes on this point than almost any other. The fact is, many people
> think they understand economy when they really do not.

------
pavlov
_”If you secretly despise wealth, it will elude you.”_

How to be a Silicon Valley thought leader: talk like a Catholic’s handbook but
replace “God’s mercy” with “wealth”.

~~~
jerguismi
lol

------
cryptozeus
I have already reached this but still not rich "When you're finally wealthy,
you'll realize that it wasn't what you were seeking in the first place. But
that's for another day."

------
sebleon
Getting rich is a quasi zero sum game. By definition, only 1-5% of the
population can be in the “financial elite.” While this advice piece might be
correct, it will be useless for >95% of its readers.

------
vannevar
This list of aphorisms is riddled with advice where luck probably plays a
dominant role, so the headline is misleading. There _are_ reliable ways of
getting rich without needing (much) luck, but they take a long time if you're
starting with very little capital. But they are proven, they do work, and they
generally involve a lot of saving and investing throughout your primary
earning years, in real estate or other stable assets. They generally _don 't_
involve serial entrepreneurship, which this article seems to advocate.

------
hoechst
why aspire to "have way more money than you need"? cause that's what this "how
to get rich" bullshit is about.

set your focus on what you love to do, not on acquiring more than you need.
that probably won't make you happy anyway.

if you chose to work in IT because you enjoy it, you're already super fucking
lucky anyway. you're sought after and money's good (generally speaking).

if you feel like you need more, do the actual work to make it happen. don't
listen to generic one-liners by some pretentious investment guru.

~~~
kpennell
You have good points. But I think you'd also probably enjoy Naval's thoughts
as well.

There's a great moment in an interview with him where he says that he watched
multiple friends get rich and not become happier.

------
zeusk
> The most accountable people have singular, public, and risky brands: Oprah,
> Trump, Kanye, Elon.

These are some of the least accountable people I know.

~~~
frockington
I had the same thought, all 4 of these people have F you money and publicly do
whatever they want with zero reprecussions

------
Animats
What's the author's net worth?

Ask a group of rich people if they made their money in real estate, and most
of them will say yes.

------
siberianbear
I got rich in Silicon Valley from my equity compensation. I bounced around
various companies and startups. Two of them were successful and had public
offerings. Of those two, one was spectacularly successful.

Sure, luck played a role. But my pure grit and tenacity also played a role.
Taking on hard bugs and solving them played a role: I solved a lot of hard
bugs that others couldn't solve. Spending Saturday afternoons at the library
reading books on topics like software program management and phase locked
loops played a role. Having some talent at hiring and managing people helped.
Spending my teenage years writing clever little programs in 6502 assembly
language on my Commodore 64 instead of smoking weed and partying helped.
Having a strong knack for math and computer science helped. Living simply and
reinvesting my profits helped.

In my 20s, I couldn't understand why people at my same wealth level in Silicon
Valley were often driving $100K cars and engaging in other types of
ostentatious spending displays. I was constantly surprised by the people
making lots of money who didn't really have any clue how money works. Wall
Street has its own game to separate you from your wealth, and they'll do it if
you don't understand how the Warren Buffets of the world value equities and
read balance sheets.

You have to get up and out and play the game to win. If you play, you'll lose
a lot of games. When you lose, don't lose the lesson. There is a secret
message embedded in every failure. Figure out the message, get up and go at it
again. Sometimes, you'll suffer a humiliating failure a few more times before
you get the lesson.

Of course, someone who is too lazy to go play the game will ascribe success to
"luck." And the person who just can't "get" the secret messages embedded in
their failures will ascribe success to "luck."

I've been dirt poor. For a whole year at the university, I slept on a camping
pad on the floor because I couldn't even afford a real mattress, much less a
bed. I've also been middle class, and now I'm rich. It's clear that being rich
is better than being middle class, and being middle class is better than being
poor, but being rich has its own problems. Even if you don't advertise your
wealth, malicious actors smell it on you and try to separate you from it. Rich
people sometimes say things like, "My only real friends are the ones who were
my friends before I got rich." I get that mindset completely.

Money lubricates a lot of things in life, but it doesn't completely solve very
many issues. The one single thing that I appreciate the most about money is
that I'm no longer obliged to sell my own time just to survive. I spent my
afternoon today, a weekday, taking a walk in the park, meeting a friend for a
late lunch, going to the gym and then reading a book. In my previous life, I
would have been stuck at work and wouldn't have done any of those things.

I read through the list and agreed with every item. Some are very broad, and
I'd add some caveats if I were discussing them in detail. The one that made me
think the hardest was "Ignore people playing status games. They gain status by
attacking people playing wealth creation games." That's true, but sizing
people up and figuring out what "game" they're playing is part of being
successful.

~~~
wilsonnb
> Having some talent at hiring and managing people helped.

Luck.

> Spending my teenage years writing clever little programs in 6502 assembly
> language on my Commodore 64 instead of smoking weed and partying helped.

Lucky enough to grow up with access to a computer in a time when that wasn't
common.

> Having a strong knack for math and computer science helped.

Luck again.

~~~
icedchai
Are you saying everything is luck? come on...

My dad taught me about investing when I was a teenager. I actually applied
this for the next 20+ years. Was this _luck_?

~~~
simantel
Yes. You were lucky to be born into a family with money to invest and to grow
up with a father around. Not everyone has those advantages.

~~~
refurb
Not everyone has those advantages, but _many_ people do and never get rich.

That would suggest it's much more than just luck.

~~~
wilsonnb
I'm not saying it's all luck. Hard work is important. Luck is also important.
It's pointless to argue over which is more important in my opinion.

However, a lot of successful people (including the person I was originally
responding to) downplay the role that luck plays and exaggerate the role that
hard work plays.

------
pascalxus
I love how succinct this article is. It's densely packed with great content,
without all the filler material most authors try to add in books.

but, i don't really agree with this part: "When you're finally wealthy, you'll
realize that it wasn't what you were seeking in the first place"

------
superjisan
This ignores most poor people who are too busy trying to feed their family in
the short term and our society's inability to properly give them a safety net
for them to learn new skills/ get ahead in life.

~~~
rich-and-poor
Society is a privelege and not a right, without "our society" and it's
shortcomings you're back to hunting for food and succeeding, or perishing

~~~
liftdd
Cannot agree more.

------
Mononokay
Naval's always sounded a bit like a Facebook quote bot to me.

He reiterates common knowledge in less concise ways than normally said while
using the persona of a monk.

...Actually, that can sum up a lot of Tech Twitter.

~~~
madmax108
Honestly, I think that's true for a lot of VCs. They have to sound like they
are smart and know the secrets of the industry so that entrepreneurs reach out
to them (and many times on extremely skewed terms). But truth be told, a lot
of VCs have been incredibly lucky with 1-2 bets they've made.

Just a couple days ago was an article on front page of HN by Sam Altman about
how to run a company, whereas he himself has had one failed startup. Softbank
exists more or less because of a huuuuge bet on Alibaba which paid off. In the
end, I doubt any of these "How to" articles hold up the test of perseverence.

But survivor bias aside, it's still interesting to see how VCs think, and
helps gain insight into their inner monologue.

~~~
jacquesm
Not all VCs are created equal. We work for quite a few of them and the range
of knowledge, connections, personalities, founder friendliness and ethics is
quite broad. As a result of that there are VCs that you really don't want to
have anything to do with and VCs that it is a pleasure to work with and that
go to bat for the founders of the portfolio companies they've invested in with
great regularity.

~~~
madmax108
Interesting. I wonder, is there something like a Yelp/Glassdoor for VCs? A
site where people can post about their experiences with VCs, how they were
helpful (Like you mentioned, some VC may be great for retail tech while others
for moonshot ventures), where they were unhelpful. How hands on or hands off
the approach they took was, how much they look at investing as a culture of
growth rather than a business (both are valid options IMHO) and so on.

Would really help entrepreneurs make the right choice when it comes to
approaching investors right. Of course, this can further boil up or down to
investment firms rather than individual investors, based on seried of funding
etc.

~~~
jacquesm
We do this informally for EU VCs, we have a pretty good idea which start-up
will match which VC in our network but we have to be careful to maintain our
independence so VCs do not start to feel we are pressuring them to make an
investment or that we are seen as a 'stamp of approval'.

("we", me and the team of people that I work with).

Because it is a very small world and we're not the (by far) the strongest
party in it a negative advice is something I would not do unless there is
public evidence that a VC can not be trusted or is unethical.

------
mmaunder
"When you're finally wealthy, you'll realize that it wasn't what you were
seeking in the first place. But that's for another day."

Freedom is what you were seeking all along.

------
ikeboy
>There are no get rich quick schemes. That's just someone else getting rich
off you.

Eh. There are a handful, they're just unethical and sometimes illegal. E.g.
[https://www.aqr.com/cliffs-perspective/virtue-is-its-own-
rew...](https://www.aqr.com/cliffs-perspective/virtue-is-its-own-reward-or-
one-mans-ceiling-is-another-mans-floor) explains how you can easily beat the
market by investing in sin stocks.

Similarly, you can make money really quickly if you mess around with grey
market goods, shady affiliate networking products, "health" products, etc. But
every so often some of those guys get busted.

~~~
tim333
The term "rich quick scheme" generally implies a con but some schemes to get
rich work out such as ViaWeb which led to indirectly to this website.

"Paul : E-commerce was not my life’s work. I didn’t actually want to spend my
life working on this. I did it to get money and make that money."

------
HugoDaniel
op forgot the "have rich parents","go to an elite school", "be born in a rich
country" and some others similar to these.

~~~
jstanley
This article was "how to get rich _without_ getting lucky", of course those
things weren't in it.

~~~
HugoDaniel
That is the premise behind those points and the ones raised by the op: Luck is
never part of the equation, just ask your average rich guy from rich families.

~~~
ryanwaggoner
What’s your definition of rich here? Because earlier you said “born in a rich
country”, so I guess about a billion of us qualify?

Assuming you meant something else, most rich people in America are first
generation rich. Of course, growing up here in a middle class or upper middle
class household didn’t hurt, but they’re not rich because someone dumped $5mm
in their bank account when they turned 18.

~~~
HugoDaniel
Any "rich" definition eventually works.

OP could have started by defining it instead of doing spaghetti moves with a
bunch of confused definitions. I am assuming he meant "wealth" for "rich" (as
he ended the article with a joyful play on that).

If you are trying to "get rich" in comparison to your local community as in
"Wealth is having assets that earn while you sleep", then being born in a rich
country will give a huge leverage to acquiring those assets in poorer
countries or any other acquisition/opportunistic startegy that eventually
increases your passive income.

If you are trying to "get rich" in comparison to the whole world, as in
comparison to the 7.6 billion of us you could just get any job because living
in a "rich" country automatically makes you an outlier and monetizing your
time is enough to make you "rich" by any other poorer country standards.

If you are trying to "get rich" in comparison to the richest persons on the
whole world. Well, good luck with that in a poor country ;)

------
Patient0
I would recommend reading "How to get rich" by Felix Dennis. He had a sense of
a humour, but was quite wise too.

~~~
Singletoned
He's also a really good poet.

~~~
tim333
Was, sadly. Throat cancer got him.

------
oliwarner
Isn't this the tenth how-to-get-rich post today? I guess that's fairly
standard, and I ignore them, but they're getting votes today.

I'm a little surprised that —since every other thread on HN is about hacking
your diet/wardrobe/matress to counteract the crushing depression you get from
your job— nobody is putting one and one together.

There is more to life than money.

I don't want to sound too hippy but there is. There is value in relaxing with
friends and taking time out to raise your family, and living with clean air
outside a big, machine-like-city.

The struggle to become rich is an immense burden with its own serious costs.
You might make it, but I'd suggest you ignore "aspirational" money posts on HN
and learn to be happy with what you have. Just strive to _be good at what you
do_. It's not the American Dream™ but you'll get a hell of a lot more from
life.

~~~
iamwil
You didn't read his last sentence.

~~~
sfoley
For the lazy:

> When you're finally wealthy, you'll realize that it wasn't what you were
> seeking in the first place. But that's for another day.

------
iicc
> The Internet has massively broadened the possible space of careers.

What does "space of careers" mean?

~~~
v3gas
Space is a concept from math which basically means dimensions. It's just a
fancy way of saying "there are more career opportunities now because of
internet".

~~~
tylerhou
Or, probably more accurately, mathematicians borrowed the analogy of space to
describe sets.

~~~
lustig
This was funny! I recognize these conflicting views. The first is the view
that math is a fundamental force governing nature. The second is that math is
simply a way to describe the forces of nature. I tend to agree with the second
view and are often dragged into arguments which has the roots in this
difference of viewpoints.

~~~
tylerhou
I'm not sure if either of your arguments applies in this case; the argument I
was trying to make is that the colloquial usage of the word "space" predates
the mathematical usage, so claiming that the word "space" in a colloquial
context comes from the mathematical context is inaccurate. (This is a purely
historical argument and not one of philosophy.)

------
jgalt212
passive income is not a good way to get rich. It's taxed a much higher rate
than capital gains.

probably should amended to create vehicle that gives off passive income, then
sell the vehicle's future cashflows for better tax treatment.

------
peter_retief
Great ideas on power, money and influence but you really need to be lucky as
well ;)

~~~
Cthulhu_
Lucky to have the personality and intelligence to do the things he mentions,
for example.

------
erjjones
If you were to take a random room of people. Reset all of their incomes to
square one. In a few years the same people that were rich to start would
emerge "rich" again.

Some people are willing to be disciplined and motivated to change. While
others talk without the walk.

~~~
k__
Funny thing is, most people who talk about how they got rich had some luck in
the first place.

They got a good paying job or they got a big lump (>50k) of money somehow
(heritage, insurance, lottery)

Then they talk about how they invested it in real estate or something.

The hard part is getting to the baseline needed for profitable investments...

------
RickJWagner
There's a lot of great advice in that post, but too much to digest in one
pass.

The author is right-- anyone can become rich, if they simply spend less than
they earn and invest it for the long run. It's been proven over and over
again.

------
Mc_Big_G
From the article: _The most accountable people have singular, public, and
risky brands: Oprah, Trump, Kanye, Elon_

Trump is one of the "most accountable people"? This sentence threatens to
invalidate the entire article.

~~~
pitt1980
Whole article seems like a bunch of koans, that would be interesting to see
fleshed out, or argued one way or the other.

I'd be interested in reading why those four people strike someone as the most
accountable people.

But at my current level of worldly enlightenment, its not evident on its face
to me.

------
ggm
When it comes down to it, _rich_ is a very odd concept. I sometimes wonder if
the overarching desire to get "rich" should be in the DSM

------
magice
Man, I disagree with about everything from this opinion. And I hate that I
have this urge to write out the point-to-point rebuking:

\+ "Wealth is having assets that earn while you sleep." : Really? Are we
playing the "let's redefine everything so that it works out like I say" game
now?

\+ "You’re not going to get rich renting out your time." : the top 1% of
Americans are dominated with doctors and lawyers who, guess what, rent out
their time.

\+ "You will get rich by giving society what it wants but does not yet know
how to get." : The concept of "first-mover disadvantage" should really solve
this. Look, Palm produced a smartphone, and Apple also produces smartphone;
Apple make trillions, Palm died. The society clearly want smartphone. Why did
Apple succeed but Palm failed?

\+ "Specific knowledge is knowledge that you cannot be trained for. If society
can train you, it can train someone else, and replace you." : please see above
for doctors and lawyers, whom are all trained by the society. Plus, if other
humans (i.e. the society) can't train you, who does? God sends angels to you?

\+ "Specific knowledge is found by pursuing your genuine curiosity and passion
rather than whatever is hot right now." : And if you are interested in, says,
building rafts (or horse-drawn carriage, or any of these things), you will get
rich so fast that your stomach will starve.

\+ "Building specific knowledge will feel like play to you but will look like
work to others." : _sigh_. Right.

\+ "The most accountable people have singular, public, and risky brands:
Oprah, Trump, Kanye, Elon." : Ummm. One, Trump brand and accountability have
adverse relationship. Two, some of the most rewarded people on earth don't do
business in their names. Bill Gates used Microsoft, in case you forget.
Corporations exist for a reason.

\+ "Become the best in the world at what you do. Keep redefining what you do
until this is true." : Yes, and the best vendors always win! And Windows is
the greatest OS on earth! And Facebook is the best social network! You get my
sarcasm.

So, conclusion?

My father taught me this, which I believe to be true: small wealth is by
hardwork, great wealth is by Heaven. If you want to be affluent, be
industrious at work, be acceptable to society, be prudent in finance; and you
will eventually get there. If you want to get richie rich rich, well, pray
(plus all of the things for little wealth). This kind of "I get lucky now I
will give stupid advices" things really should go away.

------
xstartup
While he certainly knows how to sound like a guru. There is a far easier way
to create wealth out of thin air than reading these tips.

~~~
parf02
please enlighten us.

------
zeth___
I disagree with everything that guy says and as of two months ago I am a
millionaire before I turn 30.

Pessimism is what keeps you from following the herd of lemmings over the
cliff.

~~~
ericjang
can you elaborate on what you disagree about?

~~~
zeth___
How much is it worth to you?

------
mcguire
...then get lucky.

Reality: there are millions of people out there doing exactly the things
listed. And they are not rich.

BTW, does anyone really think Oprah, Trump, Kanye, and Elon are "accountable?"

And then:

" _Don 't partner with cynics and pessimists. Their beliefs are self-
fulfilling._"

I see this a lot in these sorts of "pro tips", and it always makes me check to
see if my pocket is being picked. Somebody needs to point out the holes in
your grand scheme. But then, I'm a bitter, albeit moderately wealthy, cynic.

------
zer0faith
Money is dumb but it is a necessity to move forward in life. Without it we
can't provide for our family, possibly not have a family or have the basic
every day needs. We become bound to this society that is so focused on money
and status that we forget about the little things. Little things like
memories, friends who are always there, pride in something you've created, or
things you feel at your core. Those things are true wealth and not "having
assets that earn while you sleep".

~~~
s-shellfish
Being poor reminds me of PTSD honestly, though. You get caught up with wealth
and status because every new decision brings you back to a past where your
existence was chaotic. It's like the chaos of the past maps onto how you
interpret the present. Reminders are everywhere in culture, and I think people
get caught up in these games of dominance because the experience of poverty is
traumatizing. Even if everything in your life is perfect and functioning
optimally, there's still that fear - can't delete memories, and honestly, I
think that's the primary motivator for those who hoard wealth in a completely
unreasonable, counterproductive fashion. Tragedy and anger, these things push
us in directions we do not have perfect control over. These things are hard to
heal from, but it can be done.

