
U.S. Slaps New Sanctions on North Korea in Response to Sony Hack - happyscrappy
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-02/u-s-slaps-new-sanctions-on-n-korea-in-response-to-sony-hack.html
======
nostromo
This makes no sense. The original demand was for money and wasn't political.

> Then on Nov. 21, a strange message popped into several Sony executives’
> inboxes. It was three days before the hacks debilitated the company. And
> this was their first contact. But the message didn’t talk politics. It
> didn’t mention anything about “The Interview.” What did the hackers want?
> Money.

> “We’ve got great damage by Sony Pictures,” the message said, according to a
> copy published by Mashable. “The compensation for it, monetary compensation
> we want. Pay the damage, or Sony Pictures will be bombarded as a whole.” The
> message was signed: “From God’sApstls.”

[http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-
mix/wp/2014/12/18...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-
mix/wp/2014/12/18/why-its-still-not-certain-north-korea-is-behind-the-sony-
hack/)

~~~
einrealist
We must not forget that they threatened the US. So it would not make sense if
they did not react (to the allegations and the movie) in the first place.

------
beaner
With all the security experts coming out saying that it's really likely it
wasn't an attack by North Korea, maybe this is one of those things they call a
"false flag" operation.

~~~
ProAm
Well with war wrapping up in Afghanistan, we need somewhere else to focus our
attention. I wish I was being sarcastic.

~~~
quonn
This seems unlikely. Even if North Korea would not be backed by China, could
the US win a war? Probably not and they know it. North Korea has one of the
largest armies in the world and they are probably crazy enough to take huge
losses. This is not like Iraq at all, to say nothing of Afghanistan.

There is also little to be gained. Syria would be a more obvious candidate.
It's just as good for "focusing our attention", probably can get public
support easily, would please both, Saudi Arabia and Israel and could even make
strategic sense. (To be clear, I would oppose such a war, of course.)

~~~
adventured
When you have the superiority the US sports, it's not hard to win a war. It
becomes a question of what you're willing to do to win it.

The US is one of the only countries in history to have to deal with that
question. Defeat Iran? Easy: nukes, or a never-ending bombing campaign that
leaves nothing left standing. Throughout most of history, the problem with
defeating an enemy wasn't a question of: well, but can we do it without
killing too many people.

North Korea's army is worthless. They're extraordinarily backwards, poorly
trained, and with mediocre equipment. The problem would be the guerrilla
warfare part, much like Vietnam.

Iraq had one of the largest armies as well, and the world watched in shock as
the US trivially dismantled it. The US would dismantle the standing North
Korean military very quickly, it would be the next stage of the fight that
would be terrible.

If the US had a reason to really want to topple North Korea, the easy thing to
do would be to make a deal with China: they get Taiwan tomorrow morning, and
they allow North Korea to collapse, don't get involved if the US fights a war
with North Korea, etc. China would make that deal in a heartbeat.

The biggest problem in fighting a war with North Korea, as everyone knows, is
the damage that would be done to South Korea.

~~~
alfiedotwtf
> When you have the superiority the US sports, it's not hard to win a war.

What was the last war the US actually won?

~~~
ashark
I think you stopped reading Adventured's post too early.

The U.S. defeats conventional armies all the time, and Adventured was
responding to the idea that North Korea's conventional army might be a problem
for the U.S. It's the guerrilla war afterward that the U.S. might lose, which
Adventured goes on to address.

~~~
alfiedotwtf
I didn't stop reading. What does "win a war" mean if you only consider initial
combat? To that end, let's ignore the last 14 years and declare that the US
won the "War on Terror" during the first 6 days carpet bombing of Tora Bora.

~~~
adventured
Winning a war vs North Korea would be easy for the US: kill very large numbers
of people indiscriminately with nukes, or stand-off and just bomb them very
heavily and perpetually for a decade until nothing is left. After a very short
amount of time, North Korea would be entirely incapable of shooting down high
altitude bombers, the US would never have to put boots on the ground, just
spend all the money on never-ending bombing raids.

It goes back to what I said: the issue is what the US would be willing to do
to win. It's not acceptable to defeat enemies today in a manner in which truly
large sums of civilians are killed (I'm talking about killing 1/4, 1/2 of the
country, vaporizing them, mowing them down with unrelenting bombardment, and
then with starvation).

The US could have easily won the Vietnam war, it won every major engagement.
The US could have marched north with a million soldiers and run over the
Vietcong, killing however many people were necessary in the process. However
it would have required another level of extreme brutality, and potentially
(likely?) would have ended in a direct war with Russia or China. The question
for the US post WW2 has been what's acceptable to achieve victory in war,
because against its adversaries that question has been the only limiting
factor, not the ability to achieve victory itself.

As a side note, I consider that the US won the Korean war. Given how South
Korea has turned out, I consider it a staggering victory. Especially
considering how difficult it was to go into Asia and hold ground with China,
Russia and North Korea trying to push you out in one form or another.

~~~
ProAm
The US is never going to nuke another country over hacking, especially of a
movie studio.

------
aikah
Wow,I mean,where is the evidence? I don't want to doubt the FBI but come on...
So US slaps sanctions just like that? and who do you think it will hurt? the
people again.It didn't work for Cuba,doesn't work for Iran,didn't work for
north Korea all these years,and while Russia is in trouble,it's not due to US
sanctions.

~~~
Chronic30
You should voice your opinions to your local congressman. Meanwhile, shall we
go back to building our mobile apps?

~~~
sakabaro
Lol, are you guys working together? HN is definetly the best place to address
management issues.

------
naner
Has there been any analysis from network/security communities posted to HN on
the Sony hacks? All I've seen is reporting and opinion pieces, none that
attempted to do research.

This is the closest I've been able to find, some random guy on reddit from a
couple weeks ago:

[http://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/2puo8h/bittorrent_...](http://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/2puo8h/bittorrent_offers_distribute_sonys_the_interview/cn0ksh7)

~~~
throwawayaway
who quotes the BBC's selective quote of a NK representative saying: "The
hostile forces are relating everything to the DPRK (North Korea). I kindly
advise you to just wait and see."

down to "Wait and see." with a headline: "North Korea refuses to deny Sony
Pictures cyber-attack"

The more I read about this whole controversy the stupider I feel.

------
Animats
Now, from the people who brought you "Iraq was behind 9/11", we have "North
Korea was behind the Sony hack". This is embarrassing for the FBI. They used
to keep quiet until they were ready to arrest someone.

Gawker says one security firm thinks it was an inside job by a laid-off Sony
employee.([http://gawker.com/researcher-sony-hack-was-likely-an-
inside-...](http://gawker.com/researcher-sony-hack-was-likely-an-inside-job-
by-a-wom-1676556756))

 _" Don't embarrass the Bureau"_ \- internal FBI motto, Hoover era.

~~~
Pyxl101
There were several different leaks or attacks from multiple actors, one of
which has signs of being an inside job, but not all do. I recommend reading
this analysis of the events for one perspective on the complexity of the
situation:
[https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/2puo8h/bittorrent...](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/2puo8h/bittorrent_offers_distribute_sonys_the_interview/cn0ksh7)

------
jacquesm
Is Sony an American company now?

I thought they were still solidly Japanese with a US presence.

~~~
ojii
Sony Pictures Entertainment (the movie studio) is a US company. It's a
subsidiary of the Japanese company Sony.

------
sandworm
This entire fiasco reminds me of 'The Yes Men' and their reality hacks. Claim
something loud enough and it becomes the story. The story is then repeated by
the media, eventually forcing a change in government policy. The claim is
then, for all intents and purposes, a new reality.

An unavoidable downside of democracy is that politicians react to public
belief, no matter how easily that belief is manipulated.

~~~
dba7dba
Let's not forget the very public threats NK sent to anyone who would listen
about the movie. Not that this is the first time NK did such a thing.

NK is just getting what it really wanted, attention.

------
vaadu
The sock puppets in the mainstream media bought it when they told us a youtube
video caused the Benghazi attacks. Why not try it again?

~~~
junto
Wasn't the Benghazi attack more to do with the Iranians and Russians trying to
stop the CIA secretly smuggling missiles and other weapons to Syrian rebels?

I seem to remember reading that somewhere.

~~~
junto
Lots of downvoting on my comment above but no related feedback as to why?

Maybe I'll just leave this here and people can judge for themselves:

[http://www.businessinsider.com/the-secret-cia-mission-in-
ben...](http://www.businessinsider.com/the-secret-cia-mission-in-
benghazi-2013-8?IR=T)

------
madaxe_again
So. I guess the US is going to invade... _rolls dice_ The South Shetland
Islands... for their role in, uh, um, malware in the white house.

I swear we're run by a broken magic eight ball.

------
oe
Has someone actually suggested that the Sony attack was done by N.K?

Edit: I mean is there some source that would back up the claim?

~~~
rudolf0
Several large and respected security companies agree with the FBI's
assessment, like Crowdstrike. Crowdstrike claims to have been tracking the NK
group that did it for years. They've published information about that group
(whom they've codenamed SILENT CHOLLIMA) in the past, so they're telling the
truth about that at least.

Obviously that is not proof that they're correct, but it adds a bit of weight.

And of course, the company that Sony hired to investigate and clean up the
breach, FireEye/Mandiant, believe it was North Korea. FireEye and Mandiant
also track APT groups; Mandiant notably released their report on one of
China's state-sponsored cyberwarfare divisions, APT1, some time ago.

There are some dissenting opinions from other companies, like Norse and
ErrataSec's Rob Graham. They are skeptical. However, these companies do not
share Crowdstrike's or FireEye's niche industry, which is tracking and
defending against targeted and government-sponsored groups.

As far as I can tell, the organizations that would best know whether it was
North Korea and who have information directly related to the case (FBI, NSA,
FireEye, Crowdstrike) believe it was North Korea. The dissenting opinions are
from security experts who are undoubtedly intelligent and great in their
respective fields, but are really just being armchair analysts.

So unless you think _all_ of these organizations are either incompetent or are
colluding to intentionally lie to the public, then NK remains the most likely
hypothesis.

It is certainly possible NK retained help from non-NK individuals, and it is
possible an insider was involved, but the prevailing hypothesis among a large
part of the security community is that NK's government ordered the attack.

------
eps
Wag the Dog, a reality show version.

------
higherpurpose
Greenwald: [https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/01/01/north-
koreason...](https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/01/01/north-koreasony-
story-shows-eager-u-s-media-still-regurgitate-government-claims/)

------
dba7dba
I for one support sanctions on NK for voicing threats against Sony.

It's immaterial whether they did it or not. I'm just sick and tired of NK's
tantrums and hopefully this will keep the propaganda arm of NK govt keep its
mouth shut for a little while.

~~~
aikah
Where is the proof NK did it ? did the FBI at least made a case against NK? or
just because the president says NK did it,it's true? well maybe it's good
enough for most people but that's the problem,it shouldn't be.

~~~
dba7dba
Not hard to find proof NK was threatening American company and citizens.

[http://variety.com/2014/film/news/sony-hackers-
threaten-911-...](http://variety.com/2014/film/news/sony-hackers-
threaten-911-attack-on-movie-theaters-that-screen-the-interview-1201380712/)

~~~
aikah
Are you kidding me? that's what you call concrete evidence? aside from the FBI
and the media repeating what the government says there is no evidence.

So please don't pretend this Echo chamber does prove something.It
doesn't.There is absolutely no evidence NK did it.

At least during the WMDs madness,the Bush government tried to make a case.Now
they don't even bother.Why would they? with people like you,they just have to
point fingers at a country and say "let's go get them".

~~~
dba7dba
My God, my point was whether NK hacked or not. My point is NK is famous for
threatening other nations.

If any nation that doesn't deserve any benefit of doubt is NK. Kim doesn't
deserve the title of 'head of a nation state'. I'm sure you are a good liberty
minded person and if so, you shouldn't waste any energy defending little Kim.

