
$99 ARM-based PC runs either Ubuntu or Android - schrodingersCat
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/99-arm-based-pc-runs-either-ubuntu-or-android/
======
ChuckMcM
This is an excellent price point for this capability. I've been playing around
with a lot of different ARM implementations from Atmel to Nvidia and many
places in between. What struck me is how spoiled I had become to x86 machines
all having esssentiall the same set of "features" just at different service
levels. I find myself wanting a Marvell CPU (good at networking) and an nVidia
GPU (great at throwing pixels around) with an Atmel floorplan (easy to
layout). I'm not complaining, it is a lot more fun exploring the choices
people have made putting together their ARM SoCs than it is exploring the
differences between an Intel Core i3 and a Core i5.

------
justinsb
Dual gigabit, wi-fi and the ability to run Ubuntu makes this very interesting
for a "home router / hub" type device. Video output makes it interesting for a
media player device. Putting both in one low-powered box is awesome...

~~~
josteink
> Dual gigabit, wi-fi and the ability to run Ubuntu makes this very
> interesting for a "home router / hub" type device.

For that type of _appliance_ , I'd rather have OpenWRT than Ubuntu. Comes pre-
fit to the job at hand. And with a reasonable secure configuration by default,
as opposed to whatever the thing you've hacked together yourself accidentally
leaves open.

That said: Having medium-powered, cheap, compact and appliance-like general
purpose computing available is certainly a nice change.

Big computers with lots of cores and gigahertz gets boring pretty quickly.
These kinds of things sort of takes computing a bit more back to its roots.

~~~
s_baby
No thanks, OpenWRT package management is awful. None of the advantages of
OpenWRT apply to a machine that has enough resources to run a typical
distribution.

~~~
yuvadam
What exactly makes `opkg` awful?

Sure, it's no aptitude or pacman, but you have to remember that OpenWRT is a
full fledged distribution (package manager and all) that fits on an image of
less than 4MB!

~~~
brigade
I ran 'opkg upgrade' once and it deleted itself.

I've run into lots of other annoyances with it (e.g. its database is rather
slow), but that's the one that sticks in my memory.

------
pstuart
It was noted on reddit that prices _start_ at $99. However you can get a quad-
core android "pc" now for under $100 easy:

[http://www.aliexpress.com/item/CS918-Cortex-A9-Mini-PC-
Andro...](http://www.aliexpress.com/item/CS918-Cortex-A9-Mini-PC-Android-TV-
box-4-2-Smart-tv-stick-1-8-GHz/1023696089.html)

~~~
hosay123
Sadly the rk3188 on-chip controller is only capable of 100mbit. There's a few
more (particularly Freescale) units with gigabit, but generally more
expensive. Gigabit or USB3 is when these things start to look insanely
attractive IMHO (as possibilities to attach e.g. storage to the external bus
exist)

~~~
justincormack
The imx6 onboard Ethernet can't really do gigabit but the second Ethernet on
this new machine is apparently a PCIe connected Intel chip which is more
promising.

------
jlgaddis
Oh hell, _another_ one!? I'm running out of room in my lab for all of these
cheap single board computers that I simply can't resist buying! Please make it
stop!

------
dfc
Does anyone know if the "two RS232 serial ports" is a typo?

If they are real serial ports it sounds too good to be true. They would make
great S1 ntp boxes with GPSDOs. I have a sneaking suspicion that line is a
typo and/or they have some whacky interdependence on USB and the lines will be
riddled with jitter.

~~~
nfriedly
From the diagram on the company's website, it looks like it does indeed have
two RS232 ports - although they both have the "ultra mini connector". See
[http://utilite-computer.com/web/home](http://utilite-computer.com/web/home)
for a picture.

~~~
dfc
I am not convinced that it is not rs232 over USB. I can get a DB9 to USB
adapter and plug a GPS into any computer. The PPS will come in over the USB
port but the jitter will make the signal useless for timing applications.

~~~
joezydeco
They're real. Freescale has the drivers in the Linux kernel at
drivers/serial/mxc_uart.c if you want to see for yourself.

The iMX UARTs are internal to the SoC, all you need is a line driver to bring
them out of the board.

~~~
dfc
Can you talk about what you used the serial ports for? Was the board you used
the mxc on cheaper than this one?

~~~
joezydeco
I'm working on a project where a customer wants to update an old 16-bit
control panel and make it run with a touchscreen, ethernet, and H.264 A/V
playback. The control panel talked over RS-485 to a motor control board that
sat somewhere else in the machine.

So I took the original code, recompiled it to arm-eabi, and stuck it into an
NDK library on Android 4.04. So now I have an Android UI in the foreground
talking over JNI to the orignal (unmodified) control panel code in the
background. All I needed to do was switch the serial driver code a bit to
handle the iMX's UART setup and pthread up the old UI event loop to let it run
free underneath Android.

The board I'm using is a custom-designed PCB with an iMX6 Solo (single A9
core), but we used the SABRE-SD reference design from Freescale as our
starting point. For proof of concept I used a Boundary SabreLite (now called
BD-SL-i.MX6) for $199. That comes with two RS232 ports with DB-9 breakout
connectors.

I don't think you'll find a cheaper design than this Utilite, although they
really don't have full pricing online yet. I'm guessing the $99 is for the
Solo or even SoloLite and the multiple core units will be significantly more
than this.

They also don't say how much RAM is on the $99 unit. "Up to 4GB" says nothing
about the specs on the cheapest one. I've found I need at least 256MB to run
the FSL AOSP build in a minimal form.

You seem concerned about GPS as well, this Android build from Freescale
contains a driver for the Atheros Orion GPS chipset over UART. So I think they
have a lot you can work with out of the box.

------
sciurus
Too bad there's no connectors for fast external storage, like eSATA or USB 3.

~~~
j-kidd
For general computing purpose (e.g. HTPC + bittorrent + samba), there are
always something missing with these small ARM computers. I am holding on to my
AMD E-350, especially with the rapid improvement in the radeon driver lately.

Gigabyte Brix with AMD Kabini is going to be interesting, and possibly very
competitive in pricing without sacrificing performance:

[http://liliputing.com/2013/06/gigabyte-brix-mini-computer-
to...](http://liliputing.com/2013/06/gigabyte-brix-mini-computer-to-come-in-
amd-kabini-intel-haswell-flavors.html)

~~~
friism
Exactly.

What I'm looking for is a board with a reasonably fast CPU (preferably dual
core), SATA and a a PCI-E or USB3 port for a fast 802.11n/ac wifi adapter.
PogoPlug v4 is almost there, but the CPU is too slow to sustain more than
~40MB/s of I/O.

~~~
ndaugherty18
I preordered this, gigabit lan and sata, [http://shop.udoo.org/pre-order/udoo-
quad.html](http://shop.udoo.org/pre-order/udoo-quad.html)

------
lispython
Last month I had a chat with Raspberry Pi's founder Eben, I asked him between
or beyond Raspberry Pi and Arduino, did he think there's a chance to birth
other new platform? If so, what characteristics this new platform should have?

And he said "There's scope for something very powerful (almost PC-like) in the
$70 price range. If I was starting a new venture today, this is where I'd
aim."

------
untog
I really do hope for a world where (if we accept DRM as a given) DRM is more
universally accessible. I'd love to get one of these machines to use a media
center PC, but I can't do things like watch Netflix/Amazon Prime on them.

(I know I can get a Roku box or similar, but I'm yet to find something that
can replicate all the functions I want. An Android machine would be perfect)

~~~
schrodingersCat
This runs ubuntu AND android. I have a netflix app on my android tablet and
phone. This should hypothetically support all streaming video services.

~~~
untog
Is it possible to install Netflix without Google Play support? Because I
imagine these devices might not have Google apps.

~~~
georgemcbay
I can't say for sure it works on _this_ device, but sideloading APKs
(including Netflix) in Android is easy on most devices, even non-rooted ones.

------
jlgaddis
On a side note, if anyone is looking to build something like this, please
consider building a low-end device (running on Linux) with 16 or 32 RS-232
ports that I can SSH to...

Other than that, give it two USB ports so that the end user can connect a
wireless USB NIC and/or a 3G/cellular card if they need to. Two (at most)
10/100 or 10/100/1000 Ethernet ports would be perfect. Video
(VGA/HDMI/whatever) wouldn't be necessary, nor would sound.

Keep it under $200 and I imagine the networking industry will be happy to take
them off your hands real quick.

~~~
damian2000
Why the need for so many RS-232 ports?

~~~
jlgaddis
Serial consoles on network gear (routers, switches, firewalls, etc.).

When everything is working properly, you almost never need them... but when
SHTF, they can be invaluable and save lots of time and money.

------
vidarh
The design of that box takes me back to '99 and testing Linux on the StrongARM
based Corel Netwinder...

~~~
peatmoss
I was trying to remember the name of that one. I've had something of an
unfortunate predilection toward small, low-power, general purpose Linux boxen.
As a general rule, if I think something looks like a good idea, it is doomed
to failure. I really like the looks of this one!

------
contingencies
I looked at this market last week and settled on ~$150 x86 FoxConn NanoPCs
instead. Why? Mostly time saving worrying about driver support and cross-
compiling non-x86 kernels. Also, they can be stuck on the back of a monitor to
stay out of sight. Google ChromeOS devices were also suggested for
consideration but written off due a combination of cost and the perceived risk
of rapid deprecation.

~~~
hollerith
Thanks. some of Foxconn's NanoPCs are the first Mac-mini-like things I have
seen that beat Apple on price, specifically
[http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856119...](http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856119085)

------
ColinWright
Link to the actual site submitted here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6046604](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6046604)

However, currently the site isn't responding - I suspected it's died under the
load.

Direct link: [http://www.utilite-computer.com/](http://www.utilite-
computer.com/)

------
stevepotter
I do R&D for laboratory machines. We're trying to break away from the clunky
old components (which also almost always use Windows). I started with the Pi
but it was too underpowered. Now I'm using hardkernel's odroid u2, which has
been a decent experience. But Hardkernel's support is spotty, site is shady,
and shipping takes forever. Plus the dual ethernet and SSD are exactly what I
was looking for (using usb replacements now which aren't as good). I used an
Atom but had trouble with video drivers in Debian. Crossing my fingers on this
one. Will pre-order if they offer. I'd love it if someone could offer
touchscreens that would easily plug into it, as this has been tough for me.

~~~
hosay123
Also check out e.g. [http://boundarydevices.com/products/sabre-lite-
imx6-sbc/](http://boundarydevices.com/products/sabre-lite-imx6-sbc/) for
sterling "real" Linux support, GigE and PCIe

~~~
stevepotter
Wow thanks. I can't believe this slipped by me. You are awesome.

~~~
hosay123
You might find a few hours flicking through the past year of [http://www.cnx-
software.com/](http://www.cnx-software.com/) archives useful

~~~
bincat
Could you be more specific how would those archives help?

Btw, thank you for the boundary devices link. The only weakness against
Utilite is one Ethernet nic vs two.

------
yawniek
the wandboard quad is not much more expensive at 129usd and sports 2gb ram,
gigabit and sata.
[http://www.wandboard.org/index.php/details](http://www.wandboard.org/index.php/details)

~~~
homeomorphic
This is great.

------
51Cards
Looking at the back of this unit some of the ports seem awfully close
together. With that many it might have been better to stack some of them
vertically vs. trying to lay them all out side by side?

------
venomsnake
How exactly it will manage to squeeze ssd into this price tag? Something don't
add up. Otherwise a welcome evolution that is even developer station ready at
the higher end.

~~~
smoothify
Since the price is "starting from $99" then i assume the base model will be
without SSD, and either allow you to add your own or use microSD card / USB to
boot.

~~~
samcrawford
I suspect it's based upon this SBC (given it's from the same company and this
SBC is marked as a new product): [http://compulab.co.il/products/computer-on-
modules/cm-fx6/#o...](http://compulab.co.il/products/computer-on-modules/cm-
fx6/#ordering)

This should give some rough indication of the options available and the price
increments.

------
baudehlo
I don't see any mention of IR input. No way it will work as a TV device
without remote control support.

~~~
VMG
I already prefer a remote smartphone app for my TV

~~~
mahmud
What? Dedicated, tactile buttons to feel around in the dark, vs fidgeting with
phone.

~~~
VMG
Something adaptive that you'll probably fidget with anyway vs something that
is hiding behind a sofa cushion most of the time and needs direct line of
sight to work.

------
rwmj
$99 is quite expensive. Go on ebay and get an A10/A10s-based mk802 for $40-50.
Supported in Fedora and Android:

[http://osdir.com/ml/fedora-devel-
list/2013-07/msg00754.html](http://osdir.com/ml/fedora-devel-
list/2013-07/msg00754.html)

~~~
Moto7451
While it's more expensive the native gigabit ethernet ports are nice to have.
I use my RPi as a dev server/file server and I sometimes have problems with
the USB based ethernet going brain dead and needing a USB bus reset (I keep a
USB wifi adapter plugged in so I can still SSH in). I don't really fault the
RPi since I'm not using it for what its designed for (hell, the ARM CPU is
actually the coprocessor to the GPU[1]).

I think I'll pick one up. It will make for a much better dev server/Time
Capsule clone/AirPlay server clone/router than my PI, and then I'll have a
free RPi to use as a micro-controller.

[1][http://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/7122/level-
of...](http://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/7122/level-of-
hackability-of-raspberry-pi)

------
mwcampbell
I wonder why CompuLab chose an ARM SoC over a recent Atom-based one. The Atom-
based Clover Trail SoC, for example, is competitive with the Tegra 3 in terms
of power consumption and performance. And of course an x86-based system can
run a lot more software out of the box.

~~~
hollerith
There are no Linux drivers for the graphics engine in Clover Trail.

(And of course licensing Windows would have increased the price by a large
factor.)

------
dmritard96
This sounds pretty handy as a replacement for an old tower I have hooked up to
my tv. The one thing that the RPi offers that I would love to see on this is
gpio access. Arduino tethering is fine but I love having really easy access
for quickly hacking.

------
stephengillie
_Graphics Processing Unit supporting OpenGL ES 1.1 and 2.0, OpenVG 1.1, and
OpenCL EP_

I'm curious about what level of output this GPU can do -- are we looking at an
OUYA competitor or bitcoin-miner, or is it only powerful enough for basic
desktop acceleration?

~~~
Lerc
Do any of the Arm chips that have GPUs that are OpenCL capable have the
appropriate support software to enable you to actually use OpenCL in programs?

~~~
wladimir
Yes. You can actually use OpenCL on the i.mx6. It's pretty cool. That said,
there is still quite some room for improvement in the drivers (see my other
post above). It is also more limited than desktop-class GPUs (CL embedded
profile), so don't expect to be able to run all current OpenCL code
unmodified.

------
sspiff
One of the many we've seen over the past 12 months. the iMX6 (NDA-free
hardware reference) and dual gigabit make it stand out, but it's hardly
revolutionary.

------
grok2
Feels similar to Tonido, but fancier looking. Having been using the Tonido for
a few weeks as a development web-server and it has been pretty good so far.

------
nutate
I feel like with the rash of computers* at this price point, I'm waiting for
something at $9.99 before I get excited.

*for some value of computer

------
sbenario
I'd love to see if anyone could hack Windows RT into one of these. Could make
quite the little desktop machine.

------
pippy
This looks very nice. I've been looking for a decent replacement for my
sheevaplug for a while now.

------
gcb0
Is this the official launch price? The same company makes an atom box for
$1,700.00

...just saying.

------
fulafel
anyone know what the 99 USD configuration includes, ram/flash wise?

~~~
schrodingersCat
The $99 model will be _bare-bones_ for sure.

[http://utilite-computer.com/web/utilite-specifications](http://utilite-
computer.com/web/utilite-specifications)

