
As L.A. plays tech disruptor, Uber fights back - rmason
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2020/02/los-angeles-transportation-data-mobility-scooter-mds-uber/606178/
======
xfitm3
> L.A. requires operators to send start and stop locations of individual
> vehicle trips back to City Hall, within five seconds, in addition to the
> routes they traveled within 24 hours

Wow, this is dystopian. I support Uber fighting back on this. It's an
egregious privacy violation by the city. I trust Uber with the data a lot more
than the city. Let's say you take a scooter to an area where a crime happened
and suddenly you're being interviewed as a suspect. No thanks.

~~~
Brakenshire
Is there any indication it contains identifying information? Send the start
and end location fuzzed by a few hundred metres and the time and it would be
very difficult to deanonymize within an urban environment.

~~~
dublinben
A similar release of "anonymized" NYC taxi data from 2013 shows that trip
information can be pretty revealing.

[https://gawker.com/the-public-nyc-taxicab-database-that-
acci...](https://gawker.com/the-public-nyc-taxicab-database-that-accidentally-
track-1646724546)

~~~
jaclaz
That wasn't anonymized, strictly speaking, it was (badly) hashed/encrypted,
and it didn't actually reveal anything, it was pairing the data with
photographs of the celebrities (and photos that included the cab license
number).

And after all, out of 173 million rides some 5 (five) were "identified".

------
soneca
As a user of LADOT I think they are failing to do the basics, so I doubt they
would put that data to good use.

The DASH routes are fairly short, should be pretty easy to manage it so it is
reliable and frequent, but they are far from it. They have a web app showing
the locations of all buses (a pretty ugly and inefficient UI btw) and I often
see all buses very close to each other, often 4 of them (out of 5 or 6 in the
whole line) in just two blocks.

This means that one day I can wait 5 minutes, but others I have waited 30 or
even 40 minutes. This is by pure incompetence. I complained several times
through the site, never got a response.

~~~
omegabravo
[http://setosa.io/bus/](http://setosa.io/bus/)

it's harder than it seems, _pure_ incompetence seems a little unfair.

~~~
soneca
I come from São Paulo, a bigger, poorer, and more chaotic city than LA. The
bus system there was much more reliable than in LA. And I am talking here
about 5 or 6 buses at any given time on a circular route that's probably less
than 5 miles total.

Of course, I am reliving my frustration on these times that I have to wait
more time at a bus stop than I spend inside the bus, so it is a harsh
critique. But I do think it's fair and justified.

------
cannaceo
Being deeply involved in LA politics the notion of city being proactive about
anything came as a shock. After reading the article its Clear: “In particular,
critics have pointed to the city’s alliance with a secretive venture capital-
backed start-up that is building its business on helping cities gather reams
of vehicle data. A CityLab probe of that start-up, Lacuna, reveals that it
played a significant role in MDS, even though the city devised the project in
part to be a check on the power of such technology companies.”

------
MBlume
It's a real shame that cities didn't do this aggressively as a condition of
licensing the TNCs; they could've demanded detailed speed and location data,
could've put systems in place to _reliably_ and _consistently_ fine the TNCs
every time a driver went over the speed limit or stopped in a bike lane.
Wasted opportunity.

~~~
closeparen
This suggests an interesting tactic to build public support for mass
surveillance. Don't do it it secret, but also don't talk about monitoring
individual behavior. Instead, make it about regulating the service provider.

"We need all your GMail so we can fine Google for failed deliveries and spam"
is a much better story than "We need all your GMail to make sure you're not a
terrorist" but of course the effect is the same.

~~~
Nasrudith
They are already heavily using it. See the telecom retroactive immunities, the
lawful intercept requirements, and their persistent attempts to draft
corporations to break Cryptography. Despite the US being the biggest
beneficiary of Cryptography. They are all lazy stupid bastards.

------
mixmastamyk
Fascinating. Government and corporations fighting over our private trip data;
no one has thought to consult the little people.

~~~
casefields
That's why we elect representatives. Vote them out if you don't like what they
do. Also, your more than welcome to let them know how you feel:

[https://bos.lacounty.gov/About-Us/ContactUs](https://bos.lacounty.gov/About-
Us/ContactUs)

~~~
mixmastamyk
What makes you think I haven't? And one can see how well it’s worked.

------
jessriedel
I still don't understand LA's case for needing the data. How does it intend to
use it?

~~~
edmundsauto
"At LADOT, our job is to move people and goods as quickly and safely as
possible, but we can only do that if we have a complete picture of what’s on
our streets and where"

~~~
XMPPwocky
"we need this data to move people and goods more quickly and safely" doesn't
really seem like an answer to grandparent's question- what are they actually
going to do with the data?

~~~
amelius
This is a bit like asking an electrical engineer what they would use a
voltmeter for. For measuring voltages. Not a good answer? Well, uhm, do you
have some time to spare?

~~~
icebraining
> Well, uhm, do you have some time to spare?

Will they answer if we do?

~~~
amelius
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_flow](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_flow)

------
jariel
Is the right direction though? I think it's basically false to imply any
organization should need this microdata for any reason.

We need some trend data, surely, and some good regulation as well. But we
don't need to monitor and regulate every little microtransaction. This is
ultra 'make work'.

------
dpatru
Rather than requiring users to give them information, the city might improve
things by providing real-time information about its traffic. This would enable
individual users to make their own decisions as to where and when to travel
possibly with help from third-party companies who specialize in providing
advice. Google, Apple, and the wireless companies may already have a good-
enough version of traffic data because they can track people via their phones.

There is no need for the government, the organization that fixes the roads,
provides the police, administers a court system, etc, to also be in charge of
traffic management. It can be handled through the market.

------
speedplane
> This suggests an interesting tactic to build public support for mass
> surveillance.

I'm not entirely convinced that mass surveillance by government is worse than
mass surveillance by huge private corporations. In democratic societies at
least, the public has at least some control over the government. It has
virtually none over private entities.

~~~
barry-cotter
> In democratic societies at least, the public has at least some control over
> the government.

Indeed. That’s why the CIA was disbanded after the Snowden revelations, he was
hailed as a hero and how he became Governor of DC.

~~~
icebraining
Have you considered the public may have some control, they just don't want to
use it as you'd like them to?

~~~
Nasrudith
If they don't even consider it when it is harming them because of its
emotional impact do they really have control or is it controlling them?

I mean a heroin addict technically has control but it would be delusional to
claim the heroin has no power over them and they could easily quit any time
they liked.

~~~
icebraining
_Is it_ harming them? I mean, I'm opposed to widespread spying on principle,
but I couldn't point to an actual harm the americans have suffered due to it
yet.

~~~
Nasrudith
That has been the general prevailing wisdom of the idiots and psychopaths in
robes but if you strip away the brainwashing commonly referred to as "norms"
it becomes clear that is a moronic double standard that I wonder how the hell
it has gone so collectively unchallenged.

If you were to personally spy on the entirety of the CIA and keep the data
within your basement you would make history and record books with the harm
your grand act of treason did or would cause. Hell if you did it to one
neighborhood let alone one town you would be widely regarded as a terrifying
criminal!

The fact they are government and not one deranged citizen only makes matters
far worse not better. They have no legitimacy.

The fact so few see the goddamned obvious because they are so brainwashed is
deeply disturbingm

