
AMD Creates Quad Core Zen SoC with 24 Vega CUs for Chinese Consoles - deafcalculus
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13153/amd-creates-quad-core-zen-soc-with-24-vega-cus-for-chinese-consoles
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zdw
Should be interesting to see how well this works - the primary issue with
these APU designs is matching the amount of available memory bandwidth to the
CPU and GPU cores.

Assuming they adapt the conventional Ryzen DDR4 controller to be a 128 bit
wide GDDR5 controller with a reasonable 7Gbit/s speed, this would have
~120GB/s of memory bandwidth, which is 3x that of the 2400G (which is regarded
as bandwidth starved), but slightly more than half what the Intel + Radeon RX
Vega i7-8809G has (which is regarded as not having enough GPU cores to use the
provided bandwidth).

Probably a reasonably balanced system. Would be interesting to see if this
makes it over to their other embedded lines as a high end option:
[https://www.amd.com/en/products/embedded-
ryzen-v1000-series](https://www.amd.com/en/products/embedded-
ryzen-v1000-series)

~~~
baobrain
They mention in the article that GDDR5 is embedded "on chip", which presumably
means on package.

~~~
anonymfus
_> Update 2:_

 _> AMD has updated its press release to state that it is the GDDR5 controller
that is on the chip, and not the 8 GB of GDDR5. The memory is installed on the
board elsewhere, as with a normal GPU for example._

Also they now have a newer article with photos:
[https://www.anandtech.com/show/13163/more-details-about-
the-...](https://www.anandtech.com/show/13163/more-details-about-the-
zhongshan-subor-z-console-with-custom-amd-ryzen-soc)

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anonymfus
Subor was a brand famous in Russia for their Famicom clones (marketed as Dendy
clones), especially keyboard-integrated like this:

[http://www.phantom.sannata.ru/articles/subor.shtml](http://www.phantom.sannata.ru/articles/subor.shtml)

(Article in Russian but photos and screenshots are mostly self-explaining).

~~~
digi_owl
Retro Man Cave giving a tour of such a clone:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzaRyirU_EI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzaRyirU_EI)

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nrp
AMD’s press release seems to have more detail. Subor is creating both a gaming
PC running Win10 and a console with their own OS, presumably Linux-based.

The CPU and GPU are on the same die, while the GDDR5 is on the motherboard
through a 256-bit interface.

[https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2018/08/03/n...](https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2018/08/03/new-
amd-semi-custom-soc-combines-the-power-of-amd-ryzen-cpu-and-amd-vega-gpu-for-
gamers-in-china)

~~~
digi_owl
GDDR5 as CPU RAM sounds crazy in the best possible way.

~~~
xxs
No it doesn't.

GDDR5 is bad for CPU as it sacrifices latency for throughput. Cache misses and
branch mispredictions become so expensive and in the end it's inefficient.

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neuromancer2701
I wonder how long it would take to get mainline linux support and when these
boxes could be bought off of Aliexpress. There are basically no small form
factor 2400G systems and this have better graphics.

~~~
phkahler
>> There are basically no small form factor 2400G systems and this have better
graphics.

I've got a 2400G and have designed a very small form factor case specifically
to house a Gigabyte AB350N Gaming WiFi ITX motherboard. It's so small the CPU
fan and shroud will protrude through the top and will double as a case fan. I
am just getting my new 3D printer setup and hope to print this thing this
weekend. It's 195mm by 190mm by 60mm high, plus rubber feet to provide
clearance for the vents which are on the bottom. It will be reasonably easy to
relocate the CPU fan hole for different boards - it's position is 2 parameters
in CAD. I'll try to post pics and CAD files someplace when the design is fully
printed and finalized. Or perhaps make it available on Shapeways? There is
opportunity to shrink it more in the future, but I went for 30mm radius curves
on the front and haven't shaved every mm off the height.

Running Fedora Rawhide, there are some issues still but it's amazing when it
boots properly. Plays Video on my 4K TV while barely making a sound or heating
up.

~~~
neuromancer2701
I meant like the ZOTAC ZBOX MA551 which has been basically vaporware for the
last 9 months showing up at consumer show every 3 or 4 months. NUC like
package.

~~~
phkahler
Yeah, I wanted the ZBOX too. Gave up and decided to roll my own. If the big
names won't support AMD with SFF I will.

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seren
Is there a reason why Chinese smartphone seems to be successfully exported
(Xiaomi, Huawei,...) and I have never heard until then of a Chinese console ?
Is it an issue with the games available ? A matter of taste ?

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ncol
Consoles were banned in China from 2000 to 2015.

~~~
digi_owl
Resulting in some interesting dodges around the law over the years.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzaRyirU_EI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzaRyirU_EI)

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ksec
So A Chinese Consoles company could get a AMD Semi Custom Chip.

What is there stopping Apple getting one for Mac Mini?

Or Razor getting one for their Gaming Laptop?

~~~
digi_owl
Apple already have a good enough rapport with Intel that they can get "custom"
variants for their laptops (the Air got a variant with a shrunk package back
in the day, iirc).

With Razer, dunno. But when it comes to gaming AMD has long held the
"hobbyist" stigma compared to Intel+Nvidia (though one may wonder if that is
as a result of shenanigans from the latter two).

~~~
ken47
You should know that Apple is quite possibly dumping Intel for their next
generation computers. See
[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-02/apple-
is-...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-02/apple-is-said-to-
plan-move-from-intel-to-own-mac-chips-from-2020) or other similar articles.

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Quequau
I wonder if these might wind up in other sorts of markets besides just for
Chinese consoles or if there is some sort licensing restrictions that will
prevent that.

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greyfox
What games will the chinese console version play? Will it end up being able to
play both xbox and playstation games?

~~~
szatkus
No way. There are enough of chinese gamedevs which can fuel the ecosystem
easily.

~~~
dev_dull
How is it any different than a PC with a controller then?

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kayoone
how are Xbox or PS different than a PC with a controller ? Even most of the
games are available on either platform. It's just an ecosystem and a few
exclusives, even the hardware in modern consoles is basically a x86 PC.

~~~
dev_dull
Closed system, DRM, million dollar marketing budget.

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brian_herman
I hope AMD and Chinese consoles can disrupt the market being with the big
three players gets kind of boring after a while.... Microsoft, Sony and
Nintendo need some Sony more so than the others...

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julienfr112
How do the Chinese games look like ? Are they typically Chinese like the
Japanese games are typically japonese ?

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jokoon
I might have done some electronics in high school, but what is chip made for?

Is it a hybrid CPU/GPU chip?

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neolefty
It looks like a standard x86 chip (or system-on-a-chip), with a beefy GPU and
current-generation AMD processors, with enough on-package RAM to be a serious
PC (8GB).

It seems like a natural evolution from the XBox One / PS4 processors, which
AMD also makes, but which use previous-generation CPU and GPU. Should be much
faster than them.

It _could_ be the new cheapest foundation of a "good enough" gaming PC.

~~~
dev_dull
Can 8 GB cover 4K gaming?

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ErneX
PS4 Pro has 8GB of GDDR5 and has native & checkerboard 4K games.

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faragon
I would love to have a laptop with that SoC or similar.

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wmf
AMD can deliver great GPUs for every company except themselves. Sad.

~~~
penagwin
This GPU is likely "trash" in comparison to say... a GTX 1060 or something.
AMD is really good at low to middle ground GPUs, and is good at integrating
them to the CPU.

Obviously no "PC Gamer" wants a GPU that can run [Big name game here] at "only
34 fps on low to medium settings". That's not AMDs strong suite (although they
do try).

~~~
libertine
Hmm, I don't have the latest figures on 4k TV market penetration, but I think
we can all agree 1080p is still the standard.

Taking this into consideration, and the current generation of consoles, maybe
the question should be : does the GPU need to be at the level of a GTX 1060,
with all the costs it has?

The bulk of PC Gamers are playing Fortnite, League of Legends, so I don't see
the part of "Big name game" at 4k maximum settings being the major share - now
one thing I will agree, they are the share with the highest profit margin, and
that is where AMD takes blows from NVIDIA - NVIDIA marginal upper hand
performance in mid-to-high-end GPUs takes high margin consumers from AMD.

To stay it's not AMD strong suit its kind of ... meh... it's either NVIDIA or
AMD. Those are the players. Intel, PowerVR, whatever, are not even in the same
game.

If you said "That's not AMD competitive advantage" I would agree - it's a
major selling point, but to say they're not strong in high-end GPUs is
undermining their technology.

Making a rough generalization, and not undermining NVIDIA work and tech, but
in the gaming market, NVIDIA greatest win is the marketing arguments.

~~~
peatmoss
Seconding this. When I game, I game at 1080p because I employ an analog
antialiasing technique known as sitting several feet from the TV.

That said, I did recently upgrade to a 1060 so that I could run basically
everything at ultra quality and buttery smooth framerates at 1080p
resolutions.

But... if I weren’t quite as fussed about maxing out the quality on every
title, an AMD APU would very much be in the sweet spot.

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dxxvi
Can we install Linux on it bside-by-side with whatever it is in that machine?

