
WhatSim, a SIM Card for WhatsApp - zukunftsalick
http://whatsim.com/en
======
joosters
I absolutely despise the weasel words that this site uses. It is full of
outright lies and contradictions. Most misleadingly:

 _All Sims make you chat. But this one for free and without limits._

It's not free, it costs €10 for a year. Why then do they also claim 'it never
expires' ? Why do they say that it has no limits, when the Rates page is full
of limits?

I despise such deliberately misleading text. These people are behaving
appallingly. Put up a simple page explaining the costs please (even the Rates
page talks in terms of 'credits' and can't bring itself to talk about actual
money except in the small print).

The website leaves me with the impression that this company is out to con me.

~~~
Andrenid
Yup way too many mentions of "free, without limits", considering:

€10 per year but they say "no expiry".

€.25 per photo (sent or received, I think)

€.50 per video

That's just for Zone 1. More than triple those prices if you're in Australia
or any Zone 2 country.. and more than 6 times those prices if you're in Canada
or any Zone 3 country.

~~~
cr3ative
I've dealt with a small amount of MVNO negotiations and this company has put
many red flags up in my mind.

It may be obvious to someone else, but I'd like to know how they detect a
photo or video being sent, rather than text? WhatsApp is end-to-end encrypted,
so they can't be proxying the data to the servers. Are they just guessing from
the total data transfer seen from the subscriber?

There's a lot of unanswered questions. The CEO appears to have a fairly poor
track record of running this kind of freemium global-SIM project, too, having
done some digging. I'll watch with interest.

~~~
tom-lord
Metadata doesn't get encrypted.

That question is, at least, fairly easy to answer.

~~~
cr3ative
That's good to know. I assume most mobile operators sniff this traffic
already, but it does feel a bit strange knowing up-front that they're going to
be closely monitoring that kind of thing. Maybe I'm paranoid!

------
tom-lord
_With just €10 you can chat for free and without limits anywhere in the world
for a year. And you can do it for always for just €10 a year. WhatSim has
neither fixed costs nor monthly payments and it never expires.

To be able to send photos, videos, and voice messages and to share your
location and contacts, all you need to do is buy a recharge. With a €5
recharge you receive 1,000 credits that allow you to exchange 50 photos, 10
videos or 200 voice messages in most countries. Plus sharing your position and
contacts is unlimited._

Wow, so many contradictions!

There are no monthly payments, but it's €10/year.

It never expires, but you have to renew it every year.

You can chat for free and without limits, but multimedia messages cost extra.

To share our contacts and location you must buy a "recharge", but sharing your
position and contacts is unlimited.

I don't trust this service one bit, I suspect it will be _full_ of sneaky
charges and misleading smallprint.

------
nichtich
Can I use other applications besides WhatsApp? No, WhatSim works only with
WhatsApp.

If this is the trend, then those quad-sim crappy phones I got from China will
finally be useful! One for WhatsApp, one for netflix, one for phone, one for
internet.

Honestly I don't know who will ever use this..

Also, when I first read the title, I thought: cool, they implemented the
WhatsApp protocol on a sim card, so feature phones can chat on WhatsApp! How
disappointed I am.

~~~
colinbartlett
I could see myself buying this if for no other reason than emergencies or that
time right after I land in a foreign country and haven't yet pantomimed my way
through buying a SIM card in a foreign language. It would be useful to have
for those periods and nice to keep around just in case since it's so cheap.

Or even layovers in foreign countries where I want to leave the airport for a
few hours and not buy a SIM.

~~~
lewi
I'm with you on this. I'm currently travelling around Europe. I'd rather a one
sim solution to keep my family and friends up to date rather than the three
prepaids I have on me.

That being said I'd like it if the website was a bit more straight forward and
,if they feel like it, maybe some ssl on the Buy page.

~~~
tokenizerrr
The EU is currently working on abolishing roaming costs within the EU, which
seems like a far more favorable solution.

------
kweks
A much better alternative would be:
[http://www.knowroaming.com/](http://www.knowroaming.com/)

\- It's a SIM Sticker that sticks onto your existing SIM \- When you roam, it
activates, and uses its networks (but you can disable it, as you wish) \-
Calls, SMS etc are available at very decent rates. \- Data is available at
very reasonable rates (10c - 25c per MB - this is amazing for roaming) \-
Coverage is very, very good. I worked my way through Turkey, Iran, Iraq, the
stans, Asia, Australia, South America, Russia.. all with coverage.

Highly recommended, and not some dodgy service.

~~~
Gustomaximus
That sounds really interesting but how does it work? From the website I cant
see how it switches off my SIM and goes to their network. I would be worried I
end up with massive bill shock...and would I keep my number or need a new one?

If it works as promised that's a great product so the marketing profession in
me is disappointed with the website.

------
eng_monkey
Is this legitimate? They do not even use SSL in the purchase page
[http://www.whatsim.com/en/buy-now](http://www.whatsim.com/en/buy-now).

~~~
fidz
At first i felt the same, but after i fill the form and continue, it will
redirect to payment gateway page, which is using HTTPS.

Seems like it is legit. The payment gateway page shows that payment goes to
ZeroMobile.it. Yeah.. i think they need a better flow.

~~~
rtpg
but how can I know that this payment gateway is legitimately going to go
towards WhatSim's account? Going from HTTP to HTTPS basically makes anything
about this a crapshoot

~~~
pmontra
I think you can't ever be sure of that. The data exchange usually is like this

1) Customer browser on seller site: the customer clicks on Pay

2) Seller server to payment gateway (hopefully over an encrypted channel): I'm
S (important) and somebody is about the come to you to buy Y with order number
Z. In case of success please redirect to U1, in case of failure redirect to
U2.

3) Payment gateway to seller server: ok, thanks, my transaction code for this
is T

4) Seller server to browser: redirect to the payment gateway (the browser has
been waiting since step 1) for order Z (you don't mind if somebody pays for
you)

5) Customer on payment gateway (https): check that S and Y are what is
expected (this is fundamental), type in credit card data, click Pay.

6) Payment gateway to seller server (on a safe channel): transaction T has
been paid for.

7) Payment gateway to customer browser: redirect to U1

8) Customer browser on seller server: page U1 says thank you for paying, goods
are being delivered.

What makes you sure that the payment gateway is not a rogue one and will pay
your seller? It's that you can see the order's data in step 5. However you
can't be sure that the seller site has not been MITMed and you've been
redirected to the wrong payment gateway. The only safeguard for that is the
authentication and encryption in step 2, but that's not under your control.
Https between the customer and the seller site doesn't make the transaction
any safer.

On the other side, what makes the seller site safe against scammy customers is
step 6, but I saw some eshops relying only on the information sent in step 7,
which in some cases could be forged by the client.

------
andor
_On the other hand, this is a nice piece of evidence (along with Kindle 3G)
that it is actually possible to negotiate reasonable deals with mobile
operators globally._

They probably use Jasper Wireless (just like Kindle 3G)

------
zecg
FOR FREE, FOREVER, WITHOUT LIMITS (10€ yearly for text only, additional 5€ for
50 photos). Die.

------
josteink
Why would a chat-service operated over the internet require a dedicated SIM of
its own?

This just reeks of bad design and the limitations of tying the chat-protocol
user-ID to a phone-number.

Until I can log on (anywhere) using a username or email, I'm not going to
consider whatsapp a messaging-service for the internet-age.

~~~
wodenokoto
> Why would a chat-service operated over the internet require a dedicated SIM
> of its own?

It doesn't. This is a way to get flat-rate global pricing for texting.

------
Maakuth
I can see the practical value of this, but the net neutrality side worries me.
Will this lead to specific SIM cards for Facebook, Google, Amazon, etc? On the
other hand, this is a nice piece of evidence (along with Kindle 3G) that it is
actually possible to negotiate reasonable deals with mobile operators
globally. Hopefully someone soon does just that to give us a SIM card that
allows for reasonably priced open mobile Internet. In Europe, I'm hoping the
new EU regulation soon allows me to use all of the Internet with a reasonable
price internationally.

------
andyjohnson0
I understand what this is but I'm having a hard time understanding how it
works.

I understand that it is a sim that permits data-only connectivity for a large
number of networks around the world. What I'm having difficulty with is
understanding how the sim limits the user to using only whatsapp. Does the sim
analyse network traffic content or endpoint to block non-whatsapp data? Is the
whatsapp software supplied on the sim as an STK application that has sole
access to the data channel? Something else?

What am I missing?

~~~
kbart
I guess they run as MVNO[1] and all data is routed through their APN. The rest
goes as another comment has already described.

1\.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtual_network_operator](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtual_network_operator)

~~~
ismail
I seriously doubt this. They would need to sign MVNO agreements with every
single operator they support. Unless they have a deal with someone that
already has the links to the operators.

------
joosters
Wow, what a terribly misleading written FAQ:

Does WhatSim work on all phones?

 _Yes, it works on all unlocked phones._

That question should be answered with a NO then. It doesn't work on all
phones.

~~~
davb
I don't agree. There's a lot wrong with the marketing copy of the website but
I think that statement is quite clear.

For most countries where SIMs are commonly in use (i.e. not the US where CDMA
is still a thing and not all consumers are comfortable with GSM), people
generally understand that to change SIM you need an unlocked phone. I think
the question is intended to answer whether you need a phone on a specific GSM
or UMTS band, which you don't.

------
emeidi
Can it get even more retarded?

Will I have to switch between a dozen SIM cards in a few years when I want to
send an iMessage, a Facebook message, upload an Instagram photo, conduct a
Google Hangout session. Oh hell no.

Just give me a 4G enabled SIM card, a reasonable data limit (ie. 5GB) for an
affordable price. I'll figure out by myself what I will use this mobile broad
band connection for, thanks.

~~~
laichzeit0
Even better would be if dual-SIM was supported by Big Brand phones like iPhone
and Samsung.

I'd get an unlimited voice and unlimited data SIM and that would be the end of
it.

------
oscarhong
Anywhere in the world but not Macau?

[http://www.whatsim.com/en/coverage](http://www.whatsim.com/en/coverage)

~~~
tom-lord
Nor in The Bahamas, Brunei, Burkina Faso, Burma, Burundi, Cameroon, Central
African Republic, Comoros, Cote d'Ivoire, ... (that's just the letters 'B' and
'C' \- I gave up after that!)

------
GBiT
Rates - [http://www.whatsim.com/en/rates](http://www.whatsim.com/en/rates)

~~~
egeozcan
So it takes sending/receiving 50 photos in the cheapest zone (5 in the most
expensive one) to empty 5€ worth of credits. Isn't it a bit expensive? Then
maybe this is targeted for the frequent travelers.

------
Sujan
So who will build the "Internet via WhatsApp Text messages" app? Should work,
right?

------
mychele
ICYMI this is a product developed by an Italian guy who created a sort of
smartwatch years ago (I'm Watch was called) which turned out to be quite a
failure. This idea seems to be as good as the other one!

------
Joona
A friend of mine is getting one, as she doesn't want to get roaming charges
during her vacation, but still wants to talk to people on WhatsApp. Seems to
solve this problem quite well. :)

~~~
72deluxe
She could get a 3 SIM if she's from the UK? "Feel at home" countries have the
same freedom as being in the UK, so the £15 PAYG SIM (which you can stop using
after a month) gives you 25GB data, unlimited texts and a large number of
calls, even if you're in various countries in Europe, and even better,
America. I will be looking to use one when I visit America later in the year.

~~~
davb
I've used Feel At Home quite extensively (more when it was still called 3 At
Home) and it's fantastic. The two countries I visit most often, USA and Spain,
have recently been added to the list. I'll be able to get rid of my
international SIMs and cut out the logistics of having to swap then while
travelling. Free data roaming is just about the best thing a network can offer
customers who travel.

~~~
72deluxe
Glad to hear it works well, as I am currently with TMobile and was horrified
by the prices for going to the USA. I may even switch to 3 for my "daily
driver" phone.

------
josch
So you need to use a different phone number than the one you usually use for
WhatsApp? Then you wouldn't be linked to your friends anymore, right?

~~~
kayoone
Right, your friends would basically need to have your phone and whatsapp
contact which is not really practical.

------
andor
That's interesting, but what are the rates for regular data and phone calls? I
won't carry an extra phone for each messenger ;-) The site only lists the
price for legacy MMS. Also, which country prefix will the phone number have,
or do you get multiple numbers? People are usually hesitant to call numbers
from other countries.

Edit: I would definitely pay 10 EUR for something like this on top of my
current plan. In the spirit of net neutrality, it shouldn't be tied to a
single service, though. Instead, they could just sell a low rate data
connection.

~~~
melvinmt
> I won't carry an extra phone for each messenger

Then you're probably not part of the target market. In a lot of developing
countries (India etc), WhatsApp _is_ the primary reason to get a phone.

~~~
dingaling
Plus many phones in those markets are dual-SIM, so you would still have a
voice / data SIM installed.

~~~
brazzy
Don't most dual-SIM phones allow only one of the SIM cards to be used for data
connections?

------
tuananh
Can anyone explain this to me? I don't get it from the website.

Why is there a limit on sending photos, etc..? WhatsApp doesn't limit such
thing right?

~~~
detaro
Probably because it uses more traffic than simple text messages, and someone
sending tons of pictures would break their price calculations.

------
leovonl
Canada in zone 3? That seems a little bit too much different.

------
squeral
It is probably using SMS servers to send text messages (that's why it's free)
and MMS to send media (that's why it's paid)

~~~
uzyn
SMS actually costs a lot more per unit data compared to mobile data.

