
Taxing Short, Cheap Flights Makes a Lot of Sense - howard941
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-08-31/taxing-short-cheap-flights-will-cut-carbon-emissions
======
i_am_proteus
Why would one levy a tax on flights if one's goal is make travel more
efficient? Why not simply tax transportation fuel based on energy or carbon
content? The latter would incentivize industry to develop more efficient modes
of transportation.

~~~
tlb
The article mentions that taxing fuel was found to be legally problematic.

One assumes the laws preventing taxing fuels were lobbied for by oil
companies.

~~~
saurik
I looked at the linked report and it seemed to just assume that, did not even
make it explicit, and definitely didn't explain it :(. I then searched for
airline fuel tax information on Google and found a page from the FAA about
existing fuel taxes and some information on how the funds are restricted, so I
am left not understand why this is not an option.

[https://www.faa.gov/airports/airport_compliance/aviation_fue...](https://www.faa.gov/airports/airport_compliance/aviation_fuel_tax/)

------
sfifs
The basic issue in Europe is that train and bus travel is insanely expensive
relative to air travel. That's why Ryanairs of the world even exist and are
able to offer fares comparable to bus and train.

If governments are serious about making travel less environmentally stressful,
they should consider underwriting rail infrastructure investment and just have
the companies recoup operational expenses from fares.

~~~
vinay427
Even more expensive full-service carriers are sometimes less expensive and
rarely more expensive than (in particular) high-speed train services. To make
intercity trains worth it I typically have to buy the ticket well in advance
when cheaper fares are available and I assume the flight prices won't decrease
significantly due to their unpredictability.

------
coldtea
Yes. It keeps the unwashed masses from traveling, and is no problem at all for
the rich.

How about we charge flights based on net worth, so they're proportionally
expensive?

One way for this is for each flight to contribute X% tax points and increase
your income and property taxes...

~~~
GuB-42
I have no problem with letting the rich fly as long as they pay. Just use that
money to let the poor access eco-friendly transportation more easily.

Here is the problem: a short flight may cost $50, the bus is $40 for the same
trip, it is less desirable but much greener. In that situation, people with a
$50+ budget will take the plane, people with a $50-$40 budget will take the
bus and the others will stay at home. Now bump the plane ticket to $100 and
use the money to subsidize the bus down to $30. The result may inconvenience
the $50-$100 class as they are now taking the bus but it will open travel for
the $30-$40 class, and help the planet at the same time.

It is even better when we take high speed trains into account. The train is
often faster and more comfortable overall than the plane on short distances,
and cleaner. But it is also often more expensive. Bumping the price of plane
tickets and use a bit of that money to help the train will put things back the
way they should.

~~~
PeterStuer
The flight is only cheaper because of the massive subsidies the airlines
receive.

~~~
toasterlovin
What subsidies do airlines receive?

~~~
PeterStuer
Linked is a starter article with a detailed example:

Custormer pays €81.65 State pays €86.24 in subsidies, €43 in state debt and a
trade war

and then we didn't even begin to price in the negative externalities, where
airports and planes cause not just huge environmental but also severe health
impacts, and the economic value destruction of land near airfields.

[https://www.transportenvironment.org/news/cheap-airline-
tick...](https://www.transportenvironment.org/news/cheap-airline-ticket-
doesn%E2%80%99t-fall-sky)

------
enjoyyourlife
Doing this in the US will lower the amount of flights to rural areas

~~~
bobthepanda
Those flights are already very heavily subsidized, I doubt they wouldn‘t
provide even more subsidy if this was done

------
sunstone
And while we're at it, why not have a nation wide $0.25/gal tax on auto gas
that directly cross subsidizes buyers of electric cars? Kill two birds with
one stone.

------
jmpman
Short haul flights are the ones which are most likely to electrify first,
helping fund the technology for further ranges. Taxing the fuel makes sense.

~~~
Doctor_Fegg
There’s already an electrified mode of transport for these short trips: the
train.

~~~
jmpman
$20.4B and rising... for connecting just two metros in California.

~~~
bobthepanda
What is the cost of equivalent capacity construction on I-5, at SFO and at
LAX?

In some markets (NE Corridor) airspace is so busy that you can‘t even really
slot too many more planes in to meet travel demand.

------
loki49152
Trying to engineer society doesn't make any sense, much less by levying
discriminatory taxes.

~~~
vinay427
Where is the divide for you between governing and engineering society? I
assume this answer varies among people as it frames the same situation in two
differently opinionated ways.

