
Italy opens probe into Ryanair hand luggage charges - al_ramich
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45595149
======
wongarsu
I sympathise with the consumer associations: charging for largish hand luggage
makes price comparisons deceptive, distorting the market.

On the other hand, storing hand luggage overhead is one of the most time
consuming parts of the boarding process, which is even worse with Ryanair's
short intereuropean flights. All that time spent on hand luggage costs money,
and it seems only fair to make those pay that cause the delay, incentivizing
people to take less luggage (bags that can be stored under your seat are still
free). It makes economic sense for everyone.

To satisfy both sides of the argument, you could show the price with large
hand luggage fee included, and offer a discount if you show up without hand
luggage. If you extend that concept, you arrive at a "base feature set" that
has to be included in the base price of any flight, and from there you can add
surcharges and discounts.

~~~
pjc50
The only reason people store so much hand luggage is that the airlines charge
for checked baggage. This wasn't always the case.

> offer a discount if you show up without hand luggage

Realistically, how many such people are there going to be who are travelling
without a change of clothes?

And if they win on this one, where's next on the slippery slope? Differential
pricing for handbags and laptop bags? Could they maybe start charging based on
the _contents_ of the bags?

~~~
crottypeter
> The only reason people store so much hand luggage is that the airlines
> charge for checked baggage.

I don't think this is true. Frequent flyers always tell me the purpose of a
large carry-on is so you don't waste time at the baggage reclaim at the
destination. This makes sense to me because that can often be 30+ minutes.

~~~
TeMPOraL
I assume those people either fly to and back in the same day, have an already
established "base" with clothes & cosmetics on the other end, or just buy
everything at their destination. Personally, even for business trips longer
than 2-3 days I end up having to use checked luggage.

~~~
tomp
I'm leaving today for a 4-day trip with just a backpack (I'm a guy without
contact lenses or other medical issues so I need minimal cosmetics)
(admittedly I'm taking a bit of a risk by trusting the weather forecast).

A few years ago I went for 10-day trip to Cuba (i.e. you can't really buy
stuff there) with a 40L backpack.

~~~
TeMPOraL
> _A few years ago I went for 10-day trip to Cuba (i.e. you can 't really buy
> stuff there) with a 40L backpack._

Nice. But how did that fit in the usual size & weight limits of hand luggage?
Or did you fly with a decent airline instead of a cheap one?

~~~
ghaff
A ~40L travel backpack like [1] is legal carryon (and is probably actually a
bit more adaptable for overhead space than a typical rollaboard) along with a
small laptop bag or other "personal item." It's what I mostly use to travel
all over the world for weeks at a time. This is on a regular airline--
typically United. I get free checked luggage but rarely take advantage.

[1]
[https://www.osprey.com/us/en/product/porter-46-PORTER46.html](https://www.osprey.com/us/en/product/porter-46-PORTER46.html)

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lhopki01
Ryanair brought this on themselves. They charged for checked in bags and
everyone rightly started bringing hand luggage only. Problem is that Ryanair
didn't design their planes for everyone bringing large hand luggage and so
they forced people to put them in the hold.

Airlines like Jet2 have designed their overhead bins with more hand luggage in
mind. Jet2 bins fit 4 hang luggages vertically rather than the 2 horizontally
that most Ryanair planes fit.

This isn't a problem of space it's a problem of design and not realising the
consequences of your own actions.

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iamben
Not sure how I feel about this. It annoyed my greatly on my last RyanAir
flight that in order to take a slightly larger than laptop sized bag (35L) I
had to pay for priority which was 8 quid or whatever. A Primera flight I've
just booked is now doing exactly the same. Small bag free, bigger bag not so.
But, as some of the comments here, I think it sped things up once on the
plane. However, adding the extra charge leaves a bitter taste in my mouth -
"here's the price for you cheap flight, but here's the actual 20% more price
now you have to add a bag". It'll be a smooth win for the first aggregator
(Skyscanner or whoever) that adds a 'taking max size cabin bag' option to
their search and includes it in the price.

~~~
doctorOb
I'd say this is an open problem in the metasearch space right now. Airlines
are increasingly splitting out what you do and don't get with your ticket into
different fare classes, which they brand and line item themselves, making it
difficult for a typical traveler to make heads or tails of whether they do or
do not get a cabin bag or complimentary meal, etc.

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lorenzobr
I travel quite often in Europe and took a fairly amount of Ryanair flights as
well. The amount of people rushing in to the plane and messing around when
it's time to put their stuff in the overhead lockers is incredible, even as
fellow passenger this is super annoying hence I don't blame Ryanair at all.

Also, even if you have to pay for the luggage, Ryanair still comes often
cheaper than traditional airlines. If you want all the perks you can just fly
Alitalia and you're set.

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11235813213455
Why not charging by passenger weight then?

~~~
wastedhours
I understand why this is being downvoted, and agree that it's not a nice point
to try and argue - however it is somewhat irksome when I (as a recovering
anorexic with a very small physical footprint) is penalised for a baggage
weight allowance and yet there's no difference in seat cost between myself at
51kg and someone at twice that.

Completely appreciate there's no fair way to police it (other than that, I
think Samoan airline, who charged based on the person/bag weight combination),
but I think it's indicative of it all being a bit of a sham. Of course weight
increases costs of flying, but is an extra 1kg in a checked bag really worse
than carrying 20/30kg more of fat or muscle?

~~~
bumholio
Weight is largely irrelevant. The difference between a airliner full of 45Kg
people versus 90Kg people constitutes about 5% of the total plane weight. Some
fuel savings but would not be worth the aggravation, client humiliation,
lawsuits etc.

What it boils down to is volume and time. A passenger takes up a seat
regardless of how large he is (...) so he's charged for a seat. Luggage
changes that equation far more than passenger body weight.

~~~
wastedhours
> A passenger takes up _a_ seat regardless of how large he is

I'm only halfway joking when I say I've lost many an elbow into the side of
someone substantially larger than I. For some "a seat" is "their seat +
several inches of mine".

I know it's not really the problem at hand, but it's poor proxy for volume,
and again, just shows that the weight fee is just a sham.

Just going to start manufacturing a "flight jacket" with pockets for all your
luggage...

~~~
shishko
> Just going to start manufacturing a "flight jacket" with pockets for all
> your luggage...

Already there...

[https://www.skyscanner.net/news/best-wearable-luggage-
jacket...](https://www.skyscanner.net/news/best-wearable-luggage-jackets-
reviewed-beat-airline-baggage-charges)

------
Symbiote
I took a fairly short Ryanair flight recently, and it was much nicer with
these new baggage rules.

No-one was rushing to board first, in order to fit their sized-to-the-limit
suitcase into an overhead locker. There was plenty of room left for handbags,
small backpacks and so on, so those (like me) who'd paid for checked luggage
didn't have to have their small bag around their feet. Boarding was noticeably
faster.

These were my biggest annoyances before.

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bumholio
Firstly, travelers are consenting adults that should understand and accept the
baggage policy - or use a different airline. The market is extremely
competitive.

Secondly, as a person who has traveled backpack for years, I find the whole
"luggage is an essential element of air transport" line quite offensive. It's
a service I want to purchase but you won't let me because some guy might be
confused by a price comparison app to buy a baggage-less ticket (mind you, not
even by Ryanair themselves, on their website it is very clear what you get for
the price). It's revolting.

~~~
gaius
_use a different airline. The market is extremely competitive._

Ryanair is the only airline to certain destinations no matter how much you are
willing to pay. And they have form for manipulation. For a long time if you
wanted to opt out of their insurance, you had to set that as your
nationality...

~~~
lorenzobr
> Ryanair is the only airline to certain destinations

Surely it's not Ryanair's fault if others are not willing to compete for
certain destinations.

~~~
seszett
Maybe, but you cannot say that the market is "extremely competitive" and
"others are not willing to compete" at the same time.

~~~
lorenzobr
I'm not the one who said the market is "extremely competitive". For sure is a
market with high barriers to entry, very expensive to be in and profit margins
are not that high either.

So if you are Ryanair you aim at doing more destinations and paid "extras", if
you are Alitalia you aim at doing fewer destinations on a much bigger price
mark.

