
What it costs to live in Japan - bemmu
http://bemmu.posterous.com/what-it-costs-to-live-in-japan
======
rdouble
One thing he doesn't mention is transport costs. Japanese people have their
commuter train costs paid for by their employers. If you aren't Japanese, you
probably have to pay for this yourself. I thought I was clever by living in a
$280 apartment 40 minutes outside of Tokyo. However, my train fares ended up
costing $600 a month, so I moved to a more expensive apartment where I could
walk to work.

Likewise, road tolls are incredibly high by North American standards. I
remember one 30 mile stretch that cost $17 each way.

~~~
T-R
Whether or not you have to pay for your commute probably depends on who you
work for and what your contract is. I worked full time for a Japanese company,
and they did pay for my commute; granted, I was also being paid a typical
Japanese salary, not an expat salary.

~~~
chollida1
> I was also being paid a typical Japanese salary, not an expat salary.

I'm curious if you mean to imply that an expat salary would be higher or
lower?

~~~
T-R
In Japan, employees mostly start at roughly the same salary - somewhere
between $20k and $30k per year, regardless of position, with salary increases
reflecting time spent at the company.

Expats often move at the request of the company, and not into entry level
positions. Employees who are asked to relocate would expect to do so in
exchange for a raise (particularly if their home country has higher salaries
and they expect to move back eventually), so expat salaries tend to be
significantly higher.

Given that, I wouldn't necessarily expect expats to be offered the same
benefits as native Japanese employees.

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kalleboo
I like hanging out in Japan and I can confirm this.

Last year I spent 2 months right outside Tokyo (on the Keio-Inokashira line)
and this year I'm here for 4 mo right smack dab in the middle of it.

Since I'm only here on a tourist entry visa, I can't get "real" services so
I'm paying 140,000 yen/mo in rent (for an admittedly pretty decent place, and
no "key money" and they charge it right to my credit card) and $250/mo for an
unlimited data SIM card rental (can't even get prepaid without a proper
visa…), but aside from those inflated costs, everything here is the same or
cheaper than in Sweden. Especially eating out. E.g. back home you can't get
any prepared meal aside from sloppy tax-evasion kebab for less than 90 SEK
(US$13) but here you can get away with it for at least half of that.

Public transport is about the same price as at home, but it's really easy to
underestimate how big Tokyo or even the whole country is. Thinking "oh I'll go
to yokohama for that party" it's really easy to forget that at home that'd be
the equivalent of taking the train to the next country over.

I absolutely love it though, anyone even remotely considering coming here
should definitely do it, even if just for a short while. It's an amazing
place.

Edit: oh yeah, I got an ear infection while here and had to go to an ear
doctor without any insurance. For the first visit (which included a signup
fee, a hearing test and a prescription), I paid $150, and the 2 followups each
cost closer to $40 each. This sounds about right for what I'd pay at home if I
wasn't european and got free healthcare (my reference for the cost of European
care comes from my parents, they moved to Australia and lost european coverage
so when my mom fractured her jaw when she was here for a visit she had to pay
out of pocket).

~~~
drinian
By the way, you can get a prepaid Softbank mobile on a 90-day entry permit if
you look in the right places. I had luck at the Don Quixote in Roppongi (no
surprise there). It probably didn't hurt that I had my Japanese address
written out in kanji and folded in a piece of paper inside my passport.

Data service, though, is still unavailable prepaid, I think.

~~~
aikinai
You can get prepaid data from b-mobile and I highly recommend it. They
piggyback on Docomo's network and they sell both data-only and data/voice
prepaid sims. I don't know if they check visas for the voice version nut the
data version is cheap and you can buy it online with no credentials. It's the
best thing I've ever seen out of the Japanese mobile industry.

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awongh
One thing he doesn't mention is that Tokushima, is, I believe, something of a
backwater, It's not even on honshu (the mainland of japan), wikipedia lists it
as the 86th most populous city:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Japanese_cities_by_popu...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Japanese_cities_by_population)

I'm not sure how much this plays into the cost of living; I am assuming that
things are a whole level cheaper than in Tokyo, as it would be compared to any
other country, but I'd also be curious how it compares to secondary cities,
such as osaka, or other smaller places w/ more population....

~~~
pyre

      > I am assuming that things are a whole level cheaper than
      > in Tokyo
    

Depends on what. If it's not even on the mainland, then shipping could be
expensive. For example. Yellowknife (Canada) is away from major cities, and
I'm sure that real estate is cheap, but shipping costs have to be through the
roof.

~~~
awongh
There is a land bridge to Tokushima.... I assume most goods are trucked in.

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Sukotto

      [it costs] about 1400 eur ($1870) / month. 
      I live with my wife ...
      All of these expenses are just what I pay. For now we are
      splitting everything ... keep in mind these costs are just
      what I personally pay.
    

So basically it costs 2800eur assuming he splits evenly with his wife.

Why on Earth would you not include her share? (even if you maintain separate
accounts or something... people want to know the _total_ cost)

~~~
csomar
I think you don't get it. He is talking about his personal expenses. Things
that are shared between the couple are paid by them both.

For example, the total cost might be 2200Eur because the husband spends more
money on Gadgets, Laptops...

~~~
pyre
But things like Internet access can't really be 'split.' If his ISP costs
$62/month, then a person living alone wouldn't be paying $31/month.

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jauer
That speedtest is interesting considering popular conception of Japanese FTTH
speeds. Under 10 Meg download for over $60 per month? Where's the 100Meg for
$20 or whatever is usually mentioned in the "bash US broadband" articles?

~~~
mahyarm
What's funnier is that upload is twice that of download. You usually don't see
the ratio's flipped like that!

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revscat
"I am enrolled in the Japanese national health insurance system. My monthly
premium is 20 eur ($26), which is low as my income in Japan is zero (my income
is officially in Finland, where I pay taxes). A 15 minute doctor's visit costs
58 euro ($77) without the health insurance."

Moving to Japan would save me approximately $4000/year in health insurance
costs. Right now I pay $260/mo for myself and $160/mo for my kids.

Damn.

~~~
georgieporgie
From everything I've read, and from talking to Japanese friends, it sounds
like doctors in Japan are generally far worse than you would hope for.

~~~
burgerbrain
I am convinced that for 99% of doctor visits the quality of doctors is
completely irrelevant. So long as they can fill out prescription forms and
scold you for your blood pressure/weight/drinking/smoking, you're going to
have the same experience.

I would be more concerned about surgeon quality, but that sort of thing is
rarely needed.

~~~
georgieporgie
As someone who had Kaiser Permanente coverage as a young adult, I don't agree
with you. The doctors were incompetent, incapable of diagnosing why I was
falling ill with the same symptoms every month. They gave outright bad advice
on the subject of an ankle injury, which scared me off from doctors for years.
In my experience, the difference between a good doctor and a bad doctor is
enormous.

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ck2
What is "key money" ? A bribe? Or is it security deposit?

Can you imagine them marketing a 660cc car in the USA? I'd love to have one
but it will never happen.

~~~
patio11
Traditionally, when folks from the country moved to the city, they would bring
礼金 (money in return for a kindness - n.b. It is what you call paying someone
to tutor you, too) to show thanks for their landlord taking them under e
landlord's wing socially. In modern Japan this doesn't really happen, but
traditions are durable. Prevailing norms differ by area, but it can be
anywhere from nothing to, most commonly, 1 to 3 month's rent, and it is
compulsory. You never receive 礼金 back. Most apartments also charge a security
deposit, generally one month's rent. Custom in Japan favors the landlord
heavily with regards to security deposits, for example in accepting debits
against it to return the apartment to pristine condition (such as buying new
tatami), so most people wouldn't expect to receive it back either. e.g. I got
charged a $350 "cleaning fee" after paying for my own cleaners to make it
absolutely sparkle. Their employee apologized but said it was standard
practice.

~~~
sliverstorm
So with the key fee @ 3 months' rent, first and last months' rent, and a
security deposit, you could have to front 6 months' rent to move in!?

~~~
nandemo
I don't know what you mean by "last month rent", but yes, between key money,
deposit, real estate agent fee (1 month's rent), insurance and, if you're
foreign, guarantor's fee, you typically pay something like 4~6 months' rent
upfront.

~~~
softbuilder
Last month's rent means you've prepaid for the final month of your rental. In
the US, if you're in a region where this is legal/accepted, when you give
30-day notice you don't owe any money for that final month.

~~~
lurker19
You mean last two months' rent. The two you pay in advance.

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donw
For Americans, it's worth noting that Japanese apartments don't come with
appliances. You'll get to buy your own fridge, microwave, and washing machine.
Dishwashers are insanely expensive, and some older places don't even come with
a stove.

Appliance sales here are like car sales in the US, so negotiate the bejeezus
out of them. A friend of mine picked up a free 50+ inch brand-name TV when he
bought his refrigerator and bistro oven, to give you an idea of what's
possible.

~~~
mattm
This is an important point especially if just wanting to stay short-term.
Furnished places for rent are extremely rare. Pretty much the only chance for
that is if you go through an agency which targets foreigners and you will pay
through the nose for that.

Sometimes though appliances are included. My flat included a small bar fridge.
Another flat I looked at (but didn't rent) included a washing machine and TV.

You'll also need your own washing machine. Rental buildings don't have a
common laundry room.

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flocial
One thing he doesn't mention is that living in Japan without visa
"sponsorship" is a chore. There's this weird requirement that you need someone
to sponsor you, either a Japanese national or your company (you can be self-
employed but it's much harder). You wouldn't think it walking about Roppongi
or China Town but it is.

This comes into play when renting too. The real estate agent usually requires
someone Japanese to sponsor you. I know lots of guys that got their girlfriend
to do this. Only applies to the initial contract.

The city version:

Living quarters suck. The closer to Tokyo, the less space, the more rent.

Anything involving services will seem overpriced. I think it has to do with
high median salaries overall, inefficient distribution (lots of middlemen),
and low labor productivity.

However, one thing people underestimate is the number of ways you can save by
shopping smart, especially things like groceries and electronics. Or for
example gyms, lots of local governments run fitness centers open to anyone on
a walk in basis as long as they live or work in the area for $3 while a brand
name gym will cost you $120 for full membership.

~~~
bemmu
Yep, we were actually denied an apartment once because I am not Japanese.

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knieveltech
Wait, $350 a _day_ to feed one person?? Is that a typo?

~~~
bemmu
Thanks for pointing that out, fixed.

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georgieporgie
I lived in Japan for around six months last year, and I estimate that I spent
around $2,000 per month. I stayed in a nice dormitory-style guest house run by
Oakhouse. Rent was about $750 per month, with no key money or anything like
that. The bedrooms (bed, desk, and mini-fridge) are private, but the rest is
shared, which led to me making friends with some really great people.

I wasn't in full-tourist mode, but I didn't go out of my way to save money. I
found it fun to learn how to shop and cook most of my meals like a local might
(lots of chicken curry and yakisoba), but I regularly went out for dinner with
friends, and drinking binges on the weekends.

I lost quite a lot of money to Bank of America's ATM and currency conversion
fees (I later got a Capital One money market account, which has better fees,
and finally Schwab, which has none). I saved a tremendous amount of money by
buying huge bags of chicken at Seiyu (Walmart), and learning what out-of-the-
way big grocery stores my Japanese housemates shopped at. I could have saved a
lot of money on train fare if I'd blown $100 on a cheap bike from Seiyu (or
gotten a local to buy a bike at the ward sales they have every few years --
abandoned bicycles collected by the police are sold cheaply, but it's only
open to ward residents).

Getting a cell phone is a huge hurdle now. You have to pay exorbitant rental
fees, _or_ have a foreign resident card (not available on a tourist 'visa').
Or, do what I did, and get a local friend to buy a prepaid phone in his or her
name. That will have to be a very good friend. :-D

~~~
donw
Oak House Kiba, by chance?

~~~
georgieporgie
Higashi-jujo in Kita-ku.

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Aqwis
TL;DR: About the same as in Northern Europe.

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frooxie
I live in Sweden and spend about a third of what he does. Then again, I bike
instead of drive, and I don't often fly to the other side of the world, so
that saves me a bit of money.

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base
and you pay rent?

~~~
frooxie
Yes, 2/3 of my expenses are rent (including phone/electricity).

