
Woz talks iOS 7 and PRISM in an off the cuff airport interview [video] - rmason
http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/06/15/woz-talks-ios-7-and-prism-in-an-off-the-cuff-airport-interview/
======
beloch
That's how a reasonable american feels about this. Imagine what is now being
felt by people who aren't U.S. citizens, who aren't protected by the U.S.
constitution, but who use the same services and who now have their personal
data under the noses of the NSA! Imagine how we feel every time Obama or other
U.S. government officials try to reassure americans that it's okay and
everything is all right because U.S. citizens are protected!

As Woz predicts, most people outside the U.S. are going to ignore this just as
most people inside the U.S. will. Some might even laugh! "Haha. Look at the
silly americans. They're acting like a banana republic again!". However, at
least some of us feel deeply betrayed. Gmail, facebook, and other social/cloud
services run by U.S. companies might be constantly trying to sell us stuff,
but until now we could reasonably expect U.S. companies to behave according to
laws we expect from a free and open first-world democracy. Instead, now we
have found out that U.S. laws are being applied to force these companies to
violate our privacy, and if we're not U.S. citizens we have absolutely no idea
how far it goes.

Facebook: goodbye.

Dropbox: goodbye.

Gmail: goodbye.

Sadly, that's only the start. I'm Canadian. After the patriot act was passed,
there was some concern about the privacy implications North of the border. For
example Canadian banks, such as CIBC, often outsource some financial services
to U.S. companies, and the patriot act greatly reduced the requirements for
gaining access to our personal information through this conduit. When this
happened it greatly concerned some people, but most of us laughed it off and
said that we didn't need to worry if we didn't have a shady account in the
Cayman's!

No longer.

CIBC: goodbye.

Am I overreacting? Am I paranoid? The sickening thing is I have no idea what
the U.S. will do with all this information about me they have access to. They
have no accountability to me and under their laws I have no rights. I am a
non-citizen on foreign soil. I am _the_ _enemy_. I can either try to ignore
this or I can start avoiding companies that have anything to do with the U.S.
as much as possible. This protects me and allows me to exert the only
influence that I, as a foreigner, have on the U.S.: I can deny U.S. companies
my money.

~~~
lemming
FWIW you're not alone in feeling like this. Fortunately I deleted my Facebook
and LinkedIn accounts years ago, but losing Google services is going to hurt.
It also feels a little futile since my country, like yours, participates in
Echelon so I'm not sure how much material difference it really makes. However
I have absolutely no control over US policy, and the only thing I can do is
hope to motivate Google to lobby for a sane internet by showing them that they
are directly affected by the US administration's actions. That, and donate to
the EFF.

It's a shame, because there's a lot I really like about Google as a company,
and I really think that they're trying to push the bar when it comes to
privacy (elliptic cryptography etc) and I love things like Project Loon. But
at the end of the day they're screwed for me by the jurisdiction they operate
under.

------
mtgx
Passing the Patriot Act must've been the most _anti-patriotic_ thing the US
has ever done. It destroyed Americans' beliefs about what it means to be
American, and it also destroyed the foreigners' belief and hopes about
America, too.

As a non-American, that's how I see it, and that's why I was hoping Ron Paul
became president, because I knew he was probably your only hope to keep
America what it used to be, and revert this awful trend of the government
killing every American value and the American Constitution.

The worst thing about "tyranny" or anything similar, is not the _tyrant_
himself. That's the _easy_ part, because he can at least be removed. But what
do you do with the destroyed culture? The culture that you have free speech
and rights to privacy, and the culture that authorities need to respect the
_spirit_ of the law, not just the letter (while always seeking loopholes, so
they can still "respect" the letter of the law, but do whatever they want. And
what do you do with all the _millions upon millions_ of people that _believe_
in the "new" culture, of spying on everyone, and so on?

Once the culture is changed, it takes decades to bring it back.

~~~
jmduke
_Passing the Patriot Act must 've been the most anti-patriotic thing the US
has ever done_

I'm not defending the PATRIOT Act by any means but I think calling it this
makes you a prisoner of recency. I don't understand how someone could
genuinely compare the PATRIOT Act to things like the Trail of Tears, Jim Crow,
or Japanese-American internments.

~~~
codehalo
The Patriot Act is a precursor to worse things than these. We are just
beginning to see their manifestations. It is still early...

~~~
lifeformed
I dunno, the Trail of Tears was pretty bad. I would hope the patriot act
doesn't lead to a genocide of 60,000 people.

------
stesch
What he says about the picture of the USA during the cold war, that's what we
all thought around the world, especially in Germany.

A few people criticized the imperialism, but most people just saw the USA as
an example of how the free world should function.

This was shattered during the time of George W. Bush. He ruined it. We all
mourned 9/11\. We were at shock and couldn't realize what happened. There were
minutes of silence around the world. And George W. Bush ruined it. Destroyed
the trust and solidarity.

Then came Obama. We thought he will bring peace and undo any wrongdoing of the
former government. He even got a Nobel Peace Prize because we thought it was
inevitable that things get better.

And now?

~~~
felixmar
In Europe i am hoping that Germany will lead the way. The German people seem
to care most about personal freedom. If they can convince the government not
to give in to outside pressure to take away more and more liberty it could
become not only the economic but also moral leader of Europe.

~~~
lazyjones
> The German people seem to care most about personal freedom

That may be the case, but they still don't manage to get rid of their corrupt
CDU/CSU politicians who are also most active in implementing US- and US-
friendly policies in Germany.

My belief is that with proper education, people would find out on the long run
how governments should behave and what policies should not be tolerated. But
for some reason, education is no longer a priority for these governments, I
wonder why...

------
marcosscriven
No dazzling insights, but Woz's obviously genuine character always gives me a
warm fuzzy feeling. Such a lovely guy.

------
dmazin
When Woz talks about being proud that American soldiers didn't torture, I feel
like I'm listening to a simpleton who happens to be utterly genius but was
still brainwashed into seeing any agressive war as commendable.

But then he impressively says some very radical things, such as comparing
America to the Stalin-and-on's Soviet Union, which I know many see obvious
holes in (e.g. no dictator in America has killed tens of millions of
dissidents or forced a territory to starve, though we are obviously committing
other atrocities). He mentions property ownership but he chooses the cloud as
an example which seems to loop him back to talking about privacy, though I was
really interested to hear if he had an explanation for saying private property
beyond what is convertible to digital is somehow threatened in America.

He's wonderful though.

~~~
beloch
There's a vast difference between a state whose agents sometimes use torture
illicitly and a state whose policies officially sanction and prescribe
torture.

There was probably a gradual shift towards the use of torture in U.S.
intelligence culture such that Bush's policies were just a rubber-stamp after
the fact. The use of techniques such as the "Bell telephone hour" during the
Vietnam war were heavily encouraged by pressure from above on intelligence
agents to gather confessions and enemy troop positions in quantity, veracity
being heavily undervalued. However, even during this period, being caught (by
the wrong people) was a danger. It was very much a situation of, "I don't care
how you do it so long as you do it, but don't _tell_ me how you did it and,
for pete's sake, don't get caught!".

The knowledge that torture was not officially sanctioned, even if routinely
ignored, still served to restrain its use. That's why Bush's rubber stamp is
still a truly heinous and evil thing. It's the difference between agents re-
purposing telephone equipment in the field and permanent torture facilities.
To a prisoner, it's the difference between hours of torture and _years_.
That's why I'm still upset with my own government for handing over prisoners
to U.S. forces in Afghanistan despite knowing full-well what treatment awaited
them.

------
dakrisht
With Woz We Stand

------
wangweij
Evil, is what Woz says is evil.

