
Windows on Raspberry - T-A
https://www.worproject.ml/
======
Abishek_Muthian
I'm all in for expansion of RPi ecosystem.

But personally, I would like to see improvements to smartphone linux desktop
environments like Phosh/Plasma Mobile/Lomri for Raspberry Pi as this would
enable anyone to plugin a GSM module, download some 3D printing smartphone
designs, build themselves a nice and secure smartphone.

~~~
nix23
Here you go:

[https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices](https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices)

~~~
Abishek_Muthian
>desktop environments like Phosh/Plasma Mobile/Lomri for Raspberry Pi

~~~
nix23
>desktop environments

Well it's a smartphone screen not a desktop, but here you go:

[https://www.notebookcheck.net/PinePhone-Convergence-
Package-...](https://www.notebookcheck.net/PinePhone-Convergence-Package-
turns-the-inexpensive-smartphone-into-a-Linux-desktop-PC.481759.0.html)

[https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/User-
Interfaces](https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/User-Interfaces)

~~~
Abishek_Muthian
Sorry, I meant smartphone interface like Plasma mobile, Phosh, Lomri for
Raspberry Pi; Desktop environment terminology as with Linux on desktops could
be wrong.

Right now, you can use traditional desktop environment like LXDE/MATE with
PostmarketOS on Raspberry Pi but I don't think there's a working smartphone
interface for RPi with the projects you've linked[1].

Furthermore, Convergence feature of UBPorts (Ubuntu Touch) via Lomri helps our
phone to be used in Desktop Mode. Here is my video demonstrating it[2].

[1][http://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi_3](http://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi_3)

[2][https://twitter.com/heavyinfo/status/1251048583190609920](https://twitter.com/heavyinfo/status/1251048583190609920)

~~~
nix23
Why should that not work?

[https://www.plasma-mobile.org/](https://www.plasma-mobile.org/)

The Pinephone has postmarketos preinstalled and has convergence:

[https://store.pine64.org/product/pinephone-community-
edition...](https://store.pine64.org/product/pinephone-community-edition-
postmarketos-with-convergence-package-limited-edition-linux-smartphone/)

[https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/07/pine64-launches-
post...](https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/07/pine64-launches-postmarketos-
edition-phones-and-new-upgraded-hardware/)

------
pndy
Wouldn't be that still kinda limited to what Microsoft Store provides in terms
of software for everyday use? Because from what I remember, that translation
feature on Windows which minces x86 to ARM is still away from being finished.

I also wonder - which perhaps might sound bit naiive, if is there a chance
that ARM will enter on PCs and we'll see combined architecture motherboards or
at least some daughterboards with these processors; kinda _similar_ to
accelerator cards from Amigas.

~~~
rowanG077
The translation feature that minces x86 to ARM is done. x64 is still in the
works.

~~~
ineedasername
How is the performance?

~~~
Zenst
Half-life -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM7h1Wv2mCY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM7h1Wv2mCY)
GTA Vice City -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4MUV_9ODS8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4MUV_9ODS8)

Certainly performance wise - better than expected, but gets down to what DX
level the game is using, Rpi's not known for much graphics grunt. Though these
two examples running well on the rpi4 with windows 10, better than you'd
expect and kinda impressive.

~~~
rowanG077
And that is all running in software mode. The RPI4 has no working GPU.

~~~
tyingq
I don't know much about it, so this has me curious. The specs say the BCM2711
has an integrated Videocore VI GPU. Are there just not drivers, or what about
it makes it "not working"?

~~~
my123
Broadcom didn't release GPU documentation yet, with only Mesa being available
for now.

\+ developing Windows GPU drivers isn't trivial

~~~
theK
So it works fine with Linux then, yes? :-P

~~~
Const-me
Yes, on Linux it’s good: [https://github.com/const-
me/Vrmac/](https://github.com/const-me/Vrmac/)

Even h264 video acceleration is there: [https://github.com/Const-
me/Vrmac/tree/master/VrmacVideo](https://github.com/Const-
me/Vrmac/tree/master/VrmacVideo)

Too bad h265 hardware decoder doesn’t yet have a V4L2 driver.

------
cerberusss
I have an old Windows mini PC, which is based on a single core Atom CPU.
Clicking the Settings button will take multiple seconds to launch the Settings
app. I wonder if Windows on the RPi will fare better.

~~~
nix23
A RPi4 with a external ssd (usb) would probably be better. A RPi5 with 8GB
would be for shure much better.

~~~
techntoke
Arch running Sway would be awesome

~~~
nix23
Have Fun ;)

Sway works:

[https://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Sway-0.15-Re...](https://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Sway-0.15-Released)

Arch too:

[https://archlinuxarm.org/](https://archlinuxarm.org/)

~~~
techntoke
I already run Sway on an old laptop. It is faster than my modern Windows
gaming PC for most tasks and apps.

~~~
nix23
Yes it's definitly snappy'er than X11 but i had some problems with
hanging/blank windows last time i use'd it.

~~~
techntoke
Yeah, had some issues too but everything seems resolved in the latest 1.5
update.

~~~
nix23
Thanks have to re-evaluate it then.

------
DavideNL
I wonder how well this runs in terms of CPU, i have a Macbook Pro and i don't
hear the fans very often. Except when i run Windows 10, the fans frequently
blast at the maximum level...

~~~
jeroenhd
There's a reason for that, macOS loads a specific fan curve that prefers
silence over performance, only kicking in a the last moment before the CPU
overheats. This focus on silence also costs them in performance, but as long
as the laptop is fast enough for most people, the raw performance probably
doesn't matter to them.

Windows doesn't about the thermal limits Apple put into place in their
devices, so just treats it like a regular old laptop: boosting with fans
turning whenever it needs to. However, it needs drivers to read the
temperatures from the device and as far as I know, the Windows driver for
reading those on Apple hardware aren't great (if they're available at all).
This means Windows on a Mackintosh will always perform worse, because it
doesn't have the same thermal information input as macOS has.

~~~
rimjongun
This sounds completely made up. If you have more info than pure conjecture,
please share. I would wager the sensor drivers for Windows were written by
apple.

~~~
Sohcahtoa82
[https://www.engadget.com/2018-07-19-macbook-
pro-i9-performan...](https://www.engadget.com/2018-07-19-macbook-
pro-i9-performance-thermal-design.html)

"If it chooses to, Apple could resolve or mitigate the issue with a firmware
update that kicks in the fans sooner"

Stuff like this is why I keep saying that Apple is a fashion company, not a
tech company. Or more accurately, they're a company that makes technology
fashionable.

But apparently fan noise isn't fashionable, so they try to eliminate it, even
if it comes at the cost of performance in what is supposed to be a
performance-oriented configuration.

------
BlahGod420
Does anyone have more experience with Windows on IoT devices in general? I'm
curious about this - it seems like it could be a real game changer in general
for IoT. But if it is already available and not actually doing much game
changing, I'd be curious to know why.

~~~
ldiracdelta
My experience in general with windows is that you need GUIs everywhere to
configure stuff, whereas linux is text config first. I just deployed 20 pi's
at work for a project and remote management on raspbian is fantastic. My BOM
for the project is $300 and the previous system's BOM was $3k. Love raspbian.

The other piece is that there are 10 years of raspbian questions and answers
on the internet. You have a problem, then someone else has hit it.

~~~
fortran77
You can do absolutely everything from powershell on the command line, on your
local machine or any machine in your network, from Windows 10.

~~~
ldiracdelta
Sure. It mostly isn't a first class customer, however. We may never have "The
Year of The Linux Desktop" because of this, but command line configuration in
Linux is the first class use case.

~~~
cptskippy
I don't agree with the comment you responded to but all server tools for
Windows are configured via Powershell, and the GUIs just use the PowerShell
Apis.

They started migration back in server 2008 or 8r2 to support Headless/Azure.

The GUI is literally a second class citizen in Windows Server these days.

~~~
ldiracdelta
Fantastic. My experience is that when I have an issue on Windows my searches
give me a ton of GUI screenshots, but in Linux I get text file edits and
terminal commands. However I may be doing it wrong.

~~~
rimjongun
Not wrong, but things change. As far as OS philosophy, Microsoft has changed
rapidly in a short time.

------
TheRealPomax
Very cool, although a win10 minipc would probably make far more sense for
people who specifically need a tiny windows 10 computer, especially as they
basically cost _less_ than what a copy of windows 10 pro costs.

(A fully functional fanless atom x5-Z8350, 4GB ram, 64GB flash, Win10 pro x64
Mini-PC will set you back $139. A copy of Windows 10 pro x64 is $168...)

And I know, some folks might say "why not a lattepanda?" to which the response
really is "because that costs three times as much". Sure, you don't get GPIO
pins on a minipc, but given that you can just buy a $10 data acquisition
module that connects via USB, and that you can talk to using UART... that's
hardly a problem?

~~~
1996
> A copy of Windows 10 pro x64 is $168...

Cheaper on ebay. First sale doctrine covers you.

~~~
TheRealPomax
Until you discover it's an illegally sold volume license copy and the volume
license gets voided. Fun times, fun times.

~~~
Sohcahtoa82
Does this still happen?

I bought my Win10 Pro key from a grey market site for like $10, so I figure
it's likely an illegally sold volume license copy. Yeah, I totally acknowledge
that it could get voided, but I know several other people who have bought
their Windows key from these types of sites, and none have ever had a problem.

~~~
1996
And in the worst case, buy another.

As a customer, the question of the legality of the license key is not my
concern.

I purchased it, Microsoft checked it, while knowing my IP address, and decided
it was good to go. The fault is theirs: if they don't want volume keys to work
outside some markets, add some limitation like geolocalization.

~~~
Sohcahtoa82
> And in the worst case, buy another.

That would basically be my plan.

If the second key got revoked, THEN I might consider buying a legitimate one.

------
GekkePrutser
Nice find, this is really cool! I didn't know this was a thing, I tried the
IoT version when it first came out but it wasn't very interesting.

~~~
6c696e7578
> this is really cool

RPI's that windows, are not cool. They need cooling.

