
China: Man builds flying contraption powered by eight motorcycle engines - matan_a
http://boingboing.net/2011/09/21/china-gentleman-builds-homemade-flying-contraption-powered-by-eight-motorcycle-engines.html
======
kamaal
This is amazing,

I would like to narrate a story which happened with me, I come from low
financial background. I have always been to education institutions where
people are generally from around my background.

During my pre-university college(10th grade + 2 years, In India) there was a
guy who probably couldn't afford engineering. His dad used to work at a
automobile mechanical shop. The guy bought a absolute dead discarded engine
and built a small airplane with it. The airplane didn't do much. It would just
moved around, struggle to take off, loose balance and fall over on the sides.
But he was forced to learn so many things on the way. As his classmates we
took huge pride in sometimes going to his home and helping him out.

Very soon HAL(Hindustan Aeronautics Limited) took note of it, and sponsored
his mechanical engineering. He is doing fine now. Generally when someone does
something like this, its not for building an actual airplane, but just out of
desperation to do something in life. The product is just a way to express what
the person wants.

This was around 2002, I hope I could show you the photo graphs. I don't think
they were taken at that time. Affording a camera was a pipe dream then. But I
remember there was a small article somewhere in the news paper back then,
that's how HAL noticed it.

~~~
0x12
That nails it exactly. It shows ambition, guts and drive. All the elements
required to succeed.

It's better to build a crappy hovering device with the tools that you've got
and the materials that you've got than to sit and comment about how crappy it
is.

I've built a fair bit of stuff in my life and not always in a way that was
'responsible engineering' (see 'plane of rotation' comment below, there is an
element of experience in there) and it strikes me that if the Wright brothers
had not existed that it is guys like this that we would remember as the Wright
brothers instead.

~~~
kamaal
_It's better to build a crappy hovering device with the tools that you've got
and the materials that you've got than to sit and comment about how crappy it
is._

Exactly, very correctly put. To be doing something is a lot better than
commenting while sitting on the bylines. No matter how bad it is, building
something material into existence is thousand times better than just talk.

When effort and work is multiplied over time, the sheer volume of effort and
work brings in success sooner or later.

------
zeteo
> Shu managed to hover for 10 seconds at about 1 meter

He would have probably done better if he had read a detailed article on the
Wright brothers first. Successful flight is a matter of control, and eight
engines do not compound well with a lack of background in electrical
engineering.

~~~
bsmith
Assuming he didn't study mechanical engineering either, the fact that he's
still alive proves he's good enough at self-teaching to figure that one out
well enough. (Hell, he didn't even wear safety glasses.)

Given that, I bet he wouldn't be too hard-pressed to sort out the control part
in typical hacker fashion. How many hackers on HN are expert programmers who
weren't formally trained?

~~~
softbuilder
I don't recall any of my programming mistakes chopping my head off.

~~~
dorian-graph
Then you can't say you're truly living. :P

~~~
Groxx
This is easy to fix. You just need to hook Jenkins up to a _real_ rocket
launcher, rather than this: <https://github.com/codedance/Retaliation>

You can even keep most of the readme intact :)

------
0x12
Real men apparently put their mid section in the plane of rotation of not one
but _eight_ propellers without so much as a piece of sheet metal inbetween. He
must trust the manufacturers of those props and his welding pretty good.
Awesome. But very very scary.

~~~
rbanffy
> He must trust the manufacturers of those props

Or be completely oblivious to the risks he is incurring.

------
Jun8
This is an example of grassroots innovation, _jugaad_ is the Hindi word for it
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jugaad>). Countless millions are spent each
year on "how to foster innovation" etc., most of which is BS. As seen here it
only takes a hacker that doesn't know that what everyone else believes, i.e.
what s/he is building is impossible/very hard.

EDIT: Most comments here are missing the main point, he _doesn't care_ if the
center of gravity is high or if the thing is pretty much uncontrollable or
that you can't mass produce these or that it has been done before. He just
BUILT IT and as far as his goals are concerned he is extremely successful,
i.e. the thing gets off the ground. That, to me, is the quintessential hacker
spirit.

~~~
tptacek
People aren't remarking about the elegance of the design; they're pointing out
that he's lucky the design hasn't killed him already.

------
pella
YouTube video : <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbSnonCVUy0>

~~~
matan_a
Video really shows how scary that is. Doesn't seem like there is any "flight
control software" considering the way it was trying to take off.

Still, pretty impressive considering his junior high education and limited
resources.

------
ChuckMcM
I remember the Nike ads with the slogan "just do it." This strikes me like
that sort of attitude. That being said, I presume he either understands the
risks (probably the most fearsome is the shrapnel cloud should one of the
engines break free or a propellor lose integrity.) and does it anyway. And I
admire folks who are willing to do things even though it may shorten their
lives (helicopter skiing always struck me as an example of this).

That being said, I'm suprised he didn't go with a Quadracopter type design.
Probably not enough lift but even a hexacopter might be easier. And the
software to control them is already available on an Arduinio.

~~~
Jun8
Danger never held the truly driven people back :-)
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_inventors_killed_by_the...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_inventors_killed_by_their_own_inventions)

I would be _very_ amazed if he knows the Quadracopter design. Same for
Arduino.

One can think: If this guy came up with _this_ without Arduinos, robot kits,
HN and other social contacts, what could he have done if he had those? I think
that's the wrong approach. I know of a few such mechanical tinkerers who
wouldn't even have started building what they've built had they known more
about the field.

Arhur Fry, the inventor of Post-Its has said that it was good that he was
ignorant of the articles on that subject (creating the glue for such a
product) because they conclusively showed that it cannot be done.

~~~
martinkallstrom
Sometimes I think that access to all the literature and success stories
_prevents_ more of this kind of tinkerers to appear in this day and age. If
you can see it on Youtube you don't have to do it yourself to still your
curiosity. It's like the bazillion cooking shows on TV that for the most part
fails to actually make more people cook their own food.

------
droithomme
Ha ha, really cool. These designs with man-on-top are somewhat unstable though
due to the high center of gravity. That's the main concern with Chris Malloy's
awesome Hoverbike. However, he does fly the thing, so if you want to go for
it, you can do it.

<http://www.hover-bike.com/index.html>

[http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20071088-1/will-
flying-m...](http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20071088-1/will-flying-
motorcycle-soon-be-a-reality/)

~~~
rbanffy
My thoughts exactly. The high center of gravity would have caused the thing to
flip over and kill the pilot had it not been tethered (and close) to the
ground.

For it to properly fly, he will need thrust control on each engine (either
rotation of variable pitch), gyros, accelerometers and some brains to keep the
thing stable. I'd also advise lowering the center of gravity (putting the
pilot under the engine plane) to make things easier to the stabilization
system.

~~~
VladRussian
>The high center of gravity would have caused the thing to flip over and kill
the pilot had it not been tethered (and close) to the ground.

man, learn the subject before commenting. Over-stability, not un-stability, is
a problem of such a design:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_UtPmb3Z-o>

For Hoverbike -
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9i7WKdimPU&feature=relat...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9i7WKdimPU&feature=related)

~~~
droithomme
Yeah, I've seen the Hiller platform at the Smithsonian, it's neat.

It's also unstable because of the high center of gravity. However, it has a
specially designed duct that the propellers fit within which creates
stabilizing aerodynamic effects, counteracting this instability. Also did you
notice the Hiller's lip around the top edge? That's a carefully designed
airfoil against which air drawn downward by the propeller passes, creating
uniform lift underneath the whole lip edge, all 360 degrees around the outside
of the platform! Very clever, but also prevents movement that isn't perfectly
balanced upward lift, which is why they were hard to navigate.

The Chinese gentleman's aircraft does not feature either of these and will be
unstable. But I'm glad you brought this up, because it's possible that the
Hoverbike uses similar effects and is thus more stable, I suppose we'll find
out more as Hoverbike prototypes make their way to market and are analyzed. I
don't really see an airfoil lip of the same nature on the hoverbike though,
but perhaps it's there. The general solution going forward with such things is
likely not going to be the Hiller design but is to stabilize using automated
flight control as has been mentioned elsewhere in this discussion. The high
center of gravity is still a stability problem though that has to be dealt
with. With the Chinese craft, there's no way it will be flown any distance
untethered using its current design.

~~~
VladRussian
>It's also unstable because of the high center of gravity.

the high center of gravity is just one aspect. I'd suggest glancing over this:

<http://www.hiller.org/flying-platform.shtml>

>Also did you notice the Hiller's lip around the top edge?

the primary purpose of [relatively wide] lips of ducted fans is this:

"Utilizing the Bernoulli principle, 40% of the vehicle's lift was generated by
air moving over the ducted fan's leading edge. The remaining 60% of lift was
generated by thrust from the counter rotating propellers."

~~~
droithomme
Yes, this is what I have already told you, I am uncertain why you are quoting
it back at me.

------
athst
Who cares how viable it is? The fact that he built it, and it sorta works, is
awesome.

If you said this came out of DARPA instead of some guy in China, I doubt you'd
get the same critical comments.

------
jonmc12
I can't read Mandarin - does the text along the side translate to 'Deathtrap'?

~~~
civilian
It says: China Outer Space School.

~~~
byw
"Outer Space" was in quotes, so it's probably some pun that I missed.

~~~
sunyc
The quotes in Chinese is for emphise not puns

------
fuzzythinker
I'm sure he verified a thousand times the blades are secured, but just looking
at the picture gives me chills of one of them coming apart, and the scene
captured in "Many faces of death".

------
siculars
There is a video linked here in one of the comments and after having watched
it I'm left amazed by the fact that those involved still have all their limbs.

------
invisiblefunnel
Hard to imagine how deafeningly loud it must be.

~~~
sliverstorm
No louder than a motorcycle race, I'm sure

------
rkon
If only I had a dollar for every post about some new "flying machine" that can
only hover 3 feet off the ground...

~~~
georgieporgie
Every one that I've seen appears to be capable of going arbitrarily higher,
it's just nobody in their right mind would take the risk.

~~~
VladRussian
this one was taken a bit higher

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLsqyphVERA&feature=relat...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLsqyphVERA&feature=related)

------
georgieporgie
I can't imagine very much more questionable than a flying machine built around
two-stroke motorcycle engines. He probably realizes this, though, and has no
illusions about its suitability to 'real world' use.

~~~
VBprogrammer
Actually, microlights of the last decade were built around 2 stroke engines
originally designed for snow-mobile use.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotax>

My main concern is that an engine failure in that design is an instant crash
from whatever height you happen to be at.

~~~
0x12
Rotax also makes a four stroke (the 912).

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotax_912>

I've flown an ultralight once and hung around an airfield for a while it's an
amazing world. The aircraft that class as 'ultralights' these days can be
pretty amazing:

<http://www.mcp.com.au/sting/>

Retractable landing gear on an ultralight? Check ;)

I decided against taking lessons because it felt like I could very easily get
addicted to this.

edit: and wikipedia lists another 4 stroke, the 914

~~~
VBprogrammer
A good friend of mine owns a Rotax 503 powered Flash 2 Alpha flexwing.

I've been flying quite a few times, once after doing its 50 hour overhaul.
Really interesting and simple engines.

Pretty cool way of spending time!

------
rorrr
It looks incredibly unstable. A gust of wind will tip it over.

------
jastanton
Video?

------
polemic
Epic. Death. Trap.

------
siphr
Very nice.

~~~
siphr
Marked down by -4? Are you people anti chinese or something? All I said was
very nice.

------
beej71
"Mommy, it's raining red!"

------
analyst74
I look forward for the days of commodity personal choppers.

------
botj
Will it blend? Yep, I'm pretty sure...

