

The Ryno: Why two wheels when you need just one? - stunr69
http://solidsmack.com/3d-cad-technology/the-ryno-why-two-wheels-when-you-just-need-one/

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freehunter
Normally I think "Product X Killer" is kind of a ridiculous statement to make,
but in the case of the Segway I would double that. For a competitor to kill
another product implies that product is wildly successful and without any real
competition. The Segway was hyped as "as big a deal as the PC" and "more
important than the Internet". Instead it's fairly useless and banned in the
places it would be most useful (ignoring the medical devices using gyroscopic
technology). The Segway Killer is called your legs and a bicycle.

The Ryno isn't even a Segway competitor. You might make the bold claim that it
would be a motorcycle killer, but even then... I mean, it's a one-wheeled
motorcycle. Let's be practical here: the Ryno goes 20mph with a 20 mile range,
can't be used on sidewalks or pedestrian areas, and only really exists to draw
attention. It's not competing with the Segway, it's not competing with
motorcycles, it's barely competing with scooters or bicycles. Hype it up
because it looks interesting and has some neat tech, but don't make the claim
that it will revolutionize transport just because it can stand up on its own.

~~~
pkulak
Exactly. No way is this competing with legs or a bicycle. Legs can go on
sidewalks and are free. Bikes are way more portable, cheaper, have a higher
top speed (for most people), don't make you look like a goober (depending on
your lycra addiction) and have no range issues.

~~~
freehunter
The best part about a bike is, you can go 25mph to the city center, and when
you get to the pedestrian area, you just get off and walk. Park the bike or
don't, it won't keep you from getting through the walkway. If you're too tired
to get home, just put it on the front of a bus and ride home.

Problem is, bikes aren't cool.

~~~
pkulak
> Problem is, bikes aren't cool.

You're just living in an uncool place.

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omegant
It certainly looks cool, but I'll love to see an emergency braking with no
front wheel..

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srram
To call product X a killer of product Y, Y must have a substantial presence in
the market. Segway does not. Even in Ryno delivers, killing the segway is not
going to make headlines.

A better comparision IMO is to the mini-farthing YikeBike (www.yikebike.com),
but I don't think that product has set the market on fire either

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mvkel
This looks like a step backwards, applying traditional vehicle mechanics,
where the Segway has already graduated from them.

Also, the Segway was always pitched as a _walking_ replacement, not a
_driving_ replacement.

~~~
stunr69
[http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/02/ryno-motors-self-
balancin...](http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/02/ryno-motors-self-balancing-
single-wheeled-scooter-test-ride/)

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dons
Ah nice. I've seen a guy on one of these in Brooklyn -- it certainly stands
out.

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andryharyanto
It's as if the maker of Ryno read Paul Graham's post on Segway and implemented
his suggestions.

<http://www.paulgraham.com/segway.html>

"So there may be a way to capture more of the market Segway hoped to reach:
make a version that doesn't look so easy for the rider. It would also be
helpful if the styling was in the tradition of skateboards or bicycles rather
than medical devices."

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swdunlop
I thought the Segway killer was the cost and confusion about how to integrate
it with traffic codes. The Ryno doesn't appear to solve either of these
problems.

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kmfrk
The Segway gets a lot of flack, but it's actually catching on as a tourist
device. People who would normally exhaust themselves completely - or who
wouldn't be able to do a tour of a place at all - now have the option of
purchasing so-called guided tours on Segways.

The problem with the Segway was and is that it felt like an answer to a
question no one had asked. We might still see a lot of Segways - or their
equivalent.

~~~
roc
The real problem with the Segway are two primary things you're glossing over:

1\. Gee-whiz technology, with non-trivial downsides, that could be obviated
with a third wheel. [1]

2\. Everyone-will-want-one marketing for a device with deal-breaker-level
problems that are trivial to identify. [2]

The Segway was pitched as solving a problem that was clear and known: bicycles
are great, but they're only appropriate and convenient for a certain range of
riders and situations. And, in short, the Segway just doesn't present a better
solution for most of those situations or riders.

[1] You mention people taking assisted tours. But how much larger would even
_that_ market be, if it included people who could stand, but couldn't risk
going over the handlebars while learning to ride?

[2] A device of most interest in relatively population-dense settings that not
only has no solution to, but actually amplifies the problems of a bicycle?
e.g. stairs, parking. (by being massively more expensive and heavier)

~~~
anamax
> You mention people taking assisted tours. But how much larger would even
> that market be, if it included people who could stand, but couldn't risk
> going over the handlebars while learning to ride?

It wouldn't be significantly larger. The vast majority of people taking those
tours aren't disabled, they're just looking for an easy way to do things.
There aren't that many people who can stand but can't operate a segway and
they're significantly dwarfed by the number of folks who can operate a segway.

Then again, I take segway tours whenever I can. What experience do you have
with this market?

~~~
roc
> _"There aren't that many people who can stand but can't operate a segway"_

I think this is where we're disagreeing. I've met plenty of people who can
stand, but couldn't handle a walking tour and simply cannot take the risk of a
spill from a bicycle, Segway or scooter.

And while they're definitely dwarfed by people who _can_ use a Segway, I
believe they make up a significant fraction of those people for whom an
electronically-assisted, yet-more-stable tour holds a natural appeal over a
bicycle, walk, or scooter tour.

~~~
anamax
> And while they're definitely dwarfed by people who can use a Segway, I
> believe they make up a significant fraction of those people for whom an
> electronically-assisted, yet-more-stable tour holds a natural appeal over a
> bicycle, walk, or scooter tour.

Like I wrote, I've been on lots of Segway tours. Almost everyone on them is
physically capable of doing walking, biking, or scooter tours, yet they do
Segway tours. (In fact, I've seen those same people doing other kinds of tours
as well.)

Your entire argument for assumes otherwise. What's your supporting evidence?

~~~
roc
My entire point is about a _different_ market with different needs.

It's like we're both standing at an amusement park and we're looking at an
electric go-kart racing ride.

I'm suggesting the general concept, an electric mini-car, holds a natural
appeal for a different market. A market for whom a relatively quick and nimble
electric mini-car would be great, and for more than just racing their friends
in circles.

So I'm suggesting it's odd that one would create a company to deliver electric
mini-cars but stick to the racing go-kart form-factor to the exclusion of,
really, any other market where the general technology is appealing, but the
existing form factor is inappropriate.

And you're replying that this other market doesn't exist, because you've done
a lot of go-kart racing and you've only seen fit people in line. And they get
in line, even though they could hold a bicycle or foot race. So why would I
think anyone else is interested?

And do see how the motivations of fit people choosing go-kart racing are
wholly irrelevant to my hypothesis? Even if I'm right, the mini-cars I'm
talking about likely wouldn't ever replace the existing karts for racing. Even
if the older and moderately disabled folks use _their_ devices for racing
amongst themselves, that has no necessary bearing on what other people would
prefer.

I'm talking about something wholly different.

And all I have is anecdotal evidence that the market exists. But I find it
hard to believe you don't know, or can't even conceive of, any older or
moderately disabled people for whom a more-stable device that retained the
quickness and agility of a Segway would hold an appeal.

I've spent quite a bit of time with older and moderately disabled people,
working in and around healthcare, and there is no shortage of these people who
express a simultaneous interest in something that mobile, and a disappointment
that it doesn't exist in a more stable variety.

~~~
anamax
> My entire point is about a different market with different needs.

This whole line of discussion started with:

>>The Segway gets a lot of flack, but it's actually catching on as a tourist
device. People who would normally exhaust themselves completely - or who
wouldn't be able to do a tour of a place at all - now have the option of
purchasing so-called guided tours on Segways.

My point is that said market doesn't have those characteristics. My evidence
is that I participate in said market.

If you have evidence about a different market, great - let's see it.

If you're just imagining a market ....

> And all I have is anecdotal evidence that the market exists.

What, exactly, are those anecdotes?

> But I find it hard to believe you don't know, or can't even conceive of, any
> older or moderately disabled people for whom a more-stable device that
> retained the quickness and agility of a Segway would hold an appeal.

I can conceive of them. My point is that they're not a significant part of the
current segway tourism market. Moreover, said market is already significantly
larger than the population you're talking about, so a segway alternative that
served them can't significantly increase the size of that market.

> I've spent quite a bit of time with older and moderately disabled people,
> working in and around healthcare, and there is no shortage of these people
> who express a simultaneous interest in something that mobile, and a
> disappointment that it doesn't exist in a more stable variety.

Great, but as I pointed out, irrelevant to the segway tourism market.
Moreover, it's going to be smaller than the current segway tourism market.

It's good to come up with ways to serve an underserved market. However, that
doesn't imply that an existing market is going to adjust to satisfy that
underserved market.

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thechut
Lots of haters here, just because the OP said Segway Killer in the title. I
think this could have a legitimate market to replace things like gas powered
scooters. Details seem thin right now, but if it works well and the price is
right they could definitely sell these beyond the high end consumer market.

~~~
freehunter
But what benefit does this give over a two-wheeled electric scooter? A two-
wheeled scooter won't need to use its batteries to keep itself upright.

~~~
ctdonath
It's cool.

Take my money already!

~~~
freehunter
I will give you that. It is cool.

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robertfw
A few years ago, Bombardier showed off a concept that's very similar, but with
a small retracting pair front wheel used at low speed.

<http://www.gizmag.com/embrio-one-wheel-concept/2350/>

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relaxman
I have seen that before.. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXO4Ki8qsvk>

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relaxman
Humm.. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2DgwY5QQBk>

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unwind
No front wheel. Makes you look even sillier than when on a Segway. Lame.

~~~
andreasklinger
Interesting fact - in the gallery is no picture of actually someone riding on
it <http://rynomotors.com/gallery/>

ps: Couldn't open the link by OP - maybe there is one. (seems down)

~~~
stunr69
Well here is one picture of someone riding it.
[http://rynomotors6.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/ryno-down-
tow...](http://rynomotors6.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/ryno-down-town-
portland.jpg)

~~~
bostonpete
He's so bundled up he looks like he may be wearing body armor...

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yumraj
Um... how do you kill something that is already dead?

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oldskool503
Gizmoduck approves

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its_so_on
This is some pretty risky naming. It makes me think, "Cause of death: thrown
trying to ride a Ryno."

That would work if it were an energy drink - but this thing will be in
traffic, which really is a major cause of death.

I mean it doesn't exactly say stability and easy of riding, does it? (Which
are the main reasons that people who aren't being gimmicky don't choose
unicycles over bicycles.)

With a name like this it would attract a suicidal/desperado crowd, which
usually doesn't invest in its future long enough to have much money at any one
time. (i.e. you can't target early adopters at a premium price with this
naming/branding, which is usually the key to marketing something like this
successfully and getting it adopted widely as you learn how to make it better
and roll out on scale.)

I would change the name.

~~~
lsc
>It makes me think, "Cause of death: thrown trying to ride a Ryno."

I mean, it won't appeal to the sort that will buy something that only goes
20mph, but you just wrote the advertising campaign for the thing.

~~~
its_so_on
It's terrible branding, because it helps give the wrong impression.

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1YoCfm7nxU&t=4m0s](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1YoCfm7nxU&t=4m0s)

It's a great tagline - if you're 15-19. Who wouldn't want to show their daring
trying to ride a Ryno!

Answer: any of the people that would be actual early adopter buyers for this
expensive new product. (Middle aged rich people.) Segway did it a lot better
here, and Ryno needs to do like them.

~~~
lsc
meh, look at who buys the high end BMW and HD brand motorcycles. They are
almost entirely limited to the over 40 crowd. I mean, that's mostly due to the
expense (just like the Ryno) but clearly, The 'death machine' mystique isn't
limited to the young.

~~~
its_so_on
my entire comment is about the name Ryno, which I assume is a homonym for
"Rhino". And you ride it, even though it obviously looks dangerous and
unstable.

Do you have any specific examples like that from BMW and HD? This wuold be
like, I don't know, calling a plane "freefall". Sure there's a danger mystique
- but should that be in the name?

~~~
lsc
eh, I think naming a motorcycle "death machine" would be... redundant? silly?
I mean, the statistics show pretty clearly that it's one of the most dangerous
ways to travel. Even so, you do see people dressing up motorcycles with skulls
and German military decorations, as if the fact that it is by it's nature a
dangerous machine was not enough by itself.

The Ryno, on the other hand, has no such statistics. For all I know, it's as
safe as a segwey. And, if the problem they are trying to overcome is the nerd
factor of the segway, and if, in fact, it isn't dangerous (I have no idea)
then I think making the name sound a bit more dangerous might make sense, in
the same way that putting a HD logo and some 'iron cross' accessories on a
pickup makes it easier to sell.

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eswangren
How can one kill that which is already dead?

