

NVIDIA drivers responsibile for 30% of Windows crashes - earle
http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/27/nvidia-drivers-responsible-for-nearly-30-of-vista-crashes-in-20/

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carpo
I actually just installed Ubuntu Linux on my laptop because Vista crashed alot
of the time when security mode kicked in. My machine would hang for atleast a
couple of minutes, then BSOD. It was always because of nvidia drivers, but i
had installed the latest, and the Vista error help program said there was no
solution :)

I'd always wanted to try Ubuntu, but didn't want to invest the time in setting
it up, as I don't want to do anything not related to my start-up. The crashes
finally made it related, and i couldn't be happier.

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PieSquared
What about Linux crashes?

No one can do surveys like that for Linux though, since there is no central
authority. Oh well, I suppose we'll have to live without useless statistics.
:(

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pmjordan
In my experience, proper crashes (although very rare except when badly
configured) in Linux are frequently graphics driver problems as well, although
I think here ATI/AMD win with their terrible fglrx drivers. Both ATI's and
nVidia's drivers cause way more problems in 3D mode than 2D, which might
explain the quantity of Vista crashes: Aero Glass uses 3D acceleration.

Generally, I suspect badly written drivers or drivers for two components that
step on each others' toes are probably the main cause for OS crashes on any
OS.

One quibble I have with Linux itself is how it handles out-of-control
processes that keep allocating memory. The X session crawls to a halt while
the kernel swaps like crazy and you don't get a chance to kill -9 the process.
ssh or console logins fail because they time out before you get the password
prompt. Linux proceeds to kill off processes one by one, but keeps the amok
process alive and tries to satisfy its insatiable hunger for memory... Ok, so
it happens to me maybe 1-2 times a year, but when it does, it REALLY pisses me
off. Especially as the amok process is usually caused by a bug in my code. :)
I think the Flash plugin also had a bug like that a couple years ago.

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TheTarquin
It's ambiguous to say "30% of Windows crashes", since the article reports that
it's 30% of Windows _Vista_ crashes.

And not to be glib, but if your Vista is crashing, I'd be more inclined to
blame a shoddily made OS than graphics drivers. After all, there is something
to be said for the fact that the OS is built such that a bad driver can crash
it.

Also of note is that the article doesn't say how MS determined that the
crashes were nVidia's "fault". If I create an OS that crashes whenever any
program writes my competitor's logo to the display buffer, can I blame my
competitor's website for "crashing my OS"?

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pmjordan
I'd be very interested in seeing how you'd write a graphics driver that
doesn't at least have some kernel mode portion. PCIe/AGP memory accesses need
to be in terms of physical memory addresses, as mainstream PCs don't have
hardware IOMMUs.

~~~
TheTarquin
I'll be the first to admit that the extent of my knowledge of graphics cards
and drivers doesn't extend much past how to install them. Maybe I'm wrong, but
it seems to me that on the dual-boot systems I've used (mostly machines
designed for cross-platform testing) Linux and previous versions of Windows
(notably XP in its SP 1 iteration), seem WAY more forgiving than Vista and
don't crash or recover gracefully in situations where Vista bombs.

Admittedly, this is based on personal anecdotes and, as the saying goes, the
plural of "anecdote" is not "data".

~~~
pmjordan
Well, my theory is that the problems are caused by the fact that Vista uses 3D
acceleration for its Aero Glass UI. Graphics drivers almost never crash in 2D
mode in my experience, on both WinXP and Linux. 3D mode tends to be much less
robust. Having programmed 3D graphics hardware on the "down to the metal"
level in game consoles, I'm not that surprised. GPUs hare hugely complex and
tend to have a significant amount of hardware bugs or quirks that can make the
developer's life really hard.

By the way, I don't use Vista on any of my systems (yet) so I'm just assuming
that the reports of instability are accurate.

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pchristensen
Is anyone else surprised it's that low?

