
Nonprofit in Queens taught people to write apps, incomes rose from $15k to $72k - blahedo
http://www.vox.com/2014/4/22/5640734/learning-to-code-boosted-incomes-to-72000
======
patio11
Awesome, though it might take a bit of air out of the tech-as-a-solution-to-
jobs when one hears the qualifier "BTW, they're university-educated CS
majors." (At a university with an absolutely terrible career services
department, even by the low standards of career services departments.)

~~~
nostromo
My head almost exploded from sloppy statistics reading the article.

> Six months after the first Access Code class of 21 students completed the 18
> week course, the 15 graduates who accepted job offers have seen their income
> rise from under $15,000 to an average of $72,190; the other six students are
> either still in college or have chosen to launch their own startups

1: Those not getting a job were not included in the average. 2: The analysis
is comparing student incomes with working incomes. I imagine every college and
university could show amazing income growth using these measures.

~~~
jonnybgood
1\. Yes that's what they said. The average included those who accepted job
offers.

2\. After paying $20,000 a year and/or going in to debt.

~~~
chris11
I don't think people are charged $20,000. Alexis Ohanian is raising money for
the program, and he has a goal of $20,000. That fundraiser also says that the
program awards partial and full scholarships.

Also, the NY Daily News is saying they are trying to raise $1,000,000 for the
program to pay for 100 students. So that would put the cost at around $10,000
per person without scholarships. [http://www.nydailynews.com/new-
york/queens/queens-techies-fu...](http://www.nydailynews.com/new-
york/queens/queens-techies-funding-1m-mission-article-1.1761559)

I didn't see any figures about how much the average student paid though. I
would be interested in that figure.

~~~
jukay
The program is fully scholarship oriented, we intend to serve low income
communities so that adults can all backgrounds can enter the tech industry.
Our students were from 18-37, most were not in college at the time and didn't
know how to code. We also believe it's not just about working at a tech
company, we want to empower those through the course to be tech entrepreneurs.
Those that aren't working are pursuing their own projects and launching new
ventures. The income mobility statistic shows potential for what coding can do
to raise income and improve peoples lives, but it's important for us to
increase opportunity for people to create their own startups and apps.

------
kn0thing
I'm donating my 31st birthday to this great org. Donating $150 will get you a
signed copy of Without Their Permission and I'll take the highest donor out to
lunch in Queens.

[https://www.crowdtilt.com/campaigns/donating-my-31st-
help-c4...](https://www.crowdtilt.com/campaigns/donating-my-31st-
help-c4q-teach-queens-to-code)

------
grannyg00se
"We saw lots of people in the City University of New York system who graduated
as computer science majors but weren't going into the tech industry...It was a
lot of access and network problems, and a lack of technical training."

This is really confusing. How do you graduate as a computer science major and
lack technical training? And if that's the case, how does such a faculty
remain in business?

~~~
Ologn
I took an AI class and also a computer graphics class at a CUNY school in the
fall of 2013.

Among CS-major seniors who are in the top half of the class, none that I
talked to knew what software version control was, what git or Perforce or cvs
etc. were.

The faculty is good. Almost all of them knew their stuff, and a few were very
good at explaining things clearly.

The kids just didn't seem to have much interest in doing computer stuff
outside of class. You'd think at least once in four years they'd browse Github
bug reports, do a patch and send a pull request. They don't though. The ACM
computer club on campus was always a little derelict and is now pretty much
inactive.

A lot of kids have vague ideas about building video games, but then take a
graphics course which uses matrix math to calculate transformations, formulas
to calculate Phong shading and so forth. After doing that they lose interest.

They do get training - the theoretical stuff is taught beautifully. We also
did a lot of Java and C++, as well as some Python, Common Lisp, Prolog etc. As
well as learning about DBMSs and the various normal forms, or how the
fetch/execute cycle works etc. and all of that.

I don't know how to explain the problem other than that students did the work
for a grade and that was it. They had no interest in programming outside of
class work. One reason I did extra work was just to feel I could apply things.
I learned Java, and then fixed some open source Java bugs, and then wrote a
1000+ line program in order to get a grip on what I learned. Otherwise it
would be free floating theory about inheritance, polymorphism, objects etc.
The same with graphics - I did some OpenGL work to ground what I learned in
class.

Some kids did not even really seem to care about learning what was needed for
class or getting a decent grade. I don't know why they're even bothering. I
can see slogging through required general classes, but slogging through your
major?

~~~
null_ptr
They're there because they heard they'll get a big salary they don't deserve
at the end of those 4 years, not because they have any interest in the field
or want to contribute anything to the world.

It's probably been like this since the dot-com era and the mediocrity has only
snowballed since. The state of the software industry and the educational
institutions around it is an embarrassment. If the curriculum was any good,
these minimum-effort clowns would not be able to earn a degree in Computer
Science.

~~~
m_ke
I really don't think that's the case. Plenty of CS majors at CUNYs have no
idea how much programmers make. Most come in not knowing what to major in, end
up taking an intro programming class to meet some basic requirement and end up
liking it enough to continue learning it. They go through the program doing
well enough to pass and hope that what they learn in class will help them get
a job once they're done. None of them read hackernews, so they have no idea
that living and breathing computers is prereq for becoming an employable
programmer.

~~~
jaydz
Current CUNY CS major here. Yes, the majority of CUNY CS majors are clueless
individuals who have zero business being here. However, there are many
diamonds in the CUNY rough (some can be found here:
[http://cunytap.wordpress.com/](http://cunytap.wordpress.com/)) who love CS
and programming. There's some good talent here for startups in the alley to
scoop up if they cared to look.

~~~
BTC_BruceWillis
I've heard good things about TAP.

------
petsounds
Just to be clear, these are people with either a BS or a BA in Computer
Science, right?

~~~
jukay
Hi, I'm the founder of the organization. 85% of the class had never written a
line of code before. We believe that there are people in Queens and other
underserved communities who can learn to code and also pursue tech
entrepreneurship.

~~~
kapkapkap
Your quote in the articles says -- "We saw lots of people in the City
University of New York system who graduated as computer science majors but
weren't going into the tech industry" \--- You can't graduate as a CS major
without writing any code...So this quote has nothing to do with the people
actually in your program?

~~~
jukay
That quote was part of a longer conversation, it was asking why we saw the
need for this. The idea of even students studying CS not having access and
opportunities point out the opportunity to open this up to other people in
these communities

~~~
tptacek
I'm confused. Are the people in this story university CS graduates or not? I
think you're saying they are NOT, right?

------
cjbarber
Also worth mentioning:

CodeNow (DC and San Francisco) [http://codenow.com/](http://codenow.com/)
(currently appears down)

CodeCamp (East Palo Alto)
[http://www.epacoding.com/](http://www.epacoding.com/)

For people in the tech industry, helping out programs like these is an awesome
way to give back. Fun, engaging, direct, and makes good use of the skills you
already have (i.e. in a volunteering teaching position).

~~~
GuzmanMan
It looks like the CodeNow website is
[http://codenow.org/](http://codenow.org/) They seem to be in New York too!

------
byuu
Regardless of the merits of this particular case ... I'm always happy to see
people improve their lots in life through education. If someone can learn to
program and earn significantly more money, they should go for it.

However, I am concerned when people try and paint any given profession as
being some kind of gold rush or as easy money. Even if programming were
incredibly simple and anyone could pick it up ... if everyone making $15K
learned to program, they would drag the median salary of programmers down to
$15K due to over-supply. Our profession in particular really needs more
quality before it needs more quantity.

The moral of stories like this should be, "skilled jobs generally pay better
than unskilled jobs", not "computer programming is easy and pays exceptionally
well!" And at that point, I doubt that is news to anyone.

~~~
pessimizer
>if everyone making $15K learned to program, they would drag the median salary
of programmers down to $15K due to over-supply.

That's market competition and productivity gains. If your job is so easy that
you fear that they could crank out people by the dozens that are as good at
your job as you are, then you're going to have to choose a harder job if you
want to make more money than them.

------
llamataboot
I think this is great! As someone who has a background in teaching youth
living in poverty who is now a coder, I've often thought about swinging back
around and do bootcamp style courses for older teenagers.

------
pmorici
""We saw lots of people in the City University of New York system who
graduated as computer science majors but weren't going into the tech
industry," says Jukay Hsu, founder of Coalition for Queens"

"Not bad, considering 85 percent of the participants had never coded before."

How in the heck can you get a degree in CS while also never having any
experience coding. They don't need a non-profit they need to reform that CS
department or shut it down.

------
m_ke
Here's a link to their demo day
[http://youtu.be/AS35Lxv6WRM?t=39m2s](http://youtu.be/AS35Lxv6WRM?t=39m2s)

------
dfc

      > There's a booming tech scene in New York City with over 70,000 open
      > jobs, but it's always been somewhat insulated from the city itself
    

What is this sentence trying to convey? The part that I do not understand is
the "insulated from the city" bit.

~~~
smm2000
People in a booming tech scene are not sleeping on the streets and are
insulated (by walls) from the city itself.

~~~
dfc
I appreciate your response and it is too bad that you were downvoted for
trying to help. Whoever downvoted you should have provided their explanation
if it was so obvious to them that you were wrong. I think the problem is that
we are dealing with bad writing. My problem with your explanation is that it
means everybody except the homeless population of the city is "insulated from
the city." As far as insightful openings go, this is not my choice for the
introduction. This is especially silly if you try and imagine any "booming
industry" that would not be "insulated from the city." Once again thanks for
your effort and I apologize that someone downvoted you for trying to be a
helpful member of the community.

------
aaronchriscohen
If you want to support Coalition for Queens and the next Access Code program,
donate now through Crowdtilt:

[https://www.crowdtilt.com/campaigns/donating-my-31st-
help-c4...](https://www.crowdtilt.com/campaigns/donating-my-31st-
help-c4q-teach-queens-to-code)

------
ycmike
I love reading stories like this.

------
puppetmaster3
This is awesome, but they are not making enough.

I still get MBA types saying: 'can you build this app for me plz?'

I don't think they want it built, else they'd do it.

