
What is the software engineering scene like in Amsterdam? - mdn0420
I&#x27;m considering a move from San Francisco to Amsterdam. Obviously it&#x27;s quite easy to find work as a software engineer in SF, but what is the scene like in Amsterdam? Is it easy to find work as a non-Dutch speaking expat? Any general tips for making such a transition?<p>Thanks in advance.
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csmdev
Haven't been to San Francisco. So I can only give you my view of Amsterdam.
And it's pretty disappointing for software engineers.

Basically, web development and mobile are king. And not in the good way. Both
startups and bigger companies are focused on it. So if you're not into them,
you will have a tough time finding a job. There are some engineering jobs too.
But they are usually for support purposes. Banking, automotive, industrial
etc. You work on software that supports another product. And you're basically
non-essential personnel.

The startup scene is not very impressive. A small hub, an accelerator once a
year and some meetups (mostly web dev). However, you will find plenty of
coworking spaces. And there aren't many software companies either. Amsterdam
is a small city. You will easily finish going through all of them in a couple
of days.

When it comes to expats, Amsterdam is a city of self-employment. You either do
some freelancing, work a low-paying job in hospitality or work on your
startup. There are some expats with higher paying jobs. But they are the lucky
ones. It takes a while until you find something. There are plenty of expats
and dutch people looking for a job. And layoffs have become a common
occurrence since the crisis finally hit the Netherlands. So trying to find
something will be pretty hard.

So if you want to move, bring cash. You're going to need it.

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arisAlexis
that is not good advice. developer meetings through meetup are happening
almost every day. there are a lot of companies that produce software and you
don't need to be a freelancer (why come to Amsterdam to freelance?). The above
text applied very well to people that are looking for common jobs like
business managers,salesmen,hospitality professionals etc. If you consider
yourself a good programmer with a good CV come to Amsterdam or alternatively
go to Berlin or London.

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csmdev
I lived in Amsterdam for the most part of last year. And dev meetups are rare
and it's usually web stuff or startups.

There are only two types of meetings that happen almost every day:

1\. The Appsterdam hub meetings. And they aren't for software engineers. It's
mostly random startup people networking in the hopes of finding something.

2\. The expat meetings. And it's mostly random expats networking in the hopes
of finding something. Or at least trying to have a good time.

If you know any software engineering meetings, post them here so everybody who
is interested can save some time. But I agree with Berlin and London. You can
have more success there. Bigger cities with a lot more companies and
communities.

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easy_rider
I'm a Freelance webdev living in Amsterdam for my whole live (27 years).

Worked for a few successful start-ups that moved on to become big players in
their industry. As said, most software development is web/app based
(startups). E-Commerce and mobile to be specific.

That said there is ample opportunity for Java/C++ engineers. These trades are
often sparse here and I always see a lot of Vacancies in that area.

If you are unsure, check out some dutch vacancy sites. E.g [1] (I have no idea
why they won't translate their site, most employers value English speaking
devs). Companies I've worked at are always mixed ethnically. I've worked with
devs from Ukraine, Romania, Britain etc. More and more companies are flying
over people from other parts of Europe. System engineers are always welcomed
as well. Even in web dev where it looks like there is a lot of saturation,
highly experienced people are always in demand. Even in PHP I often get
messaged for jobs primarily for Symfony2 experience.

Overall though you will probably find the pay to be not so great compared to
The Valley and for example London.. I would advice you to proceed cautiously
and start sending in your open resumé or applying to some jobs through the web
and get a feel at least.

[1] www.itjobboard.nl

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mdn0420
Thanks for the advice. What would you say the average salary for an engineer
with 5-6 years of experience is? I'm trying to get a sense of what kind of
rent I'll be able to afford.

~~~
csmdev
Rent is about 1000 euros per month with everything included. Maybe less, maybe
more depending on the area.

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benzesandbetter
I'm also from SF, and for me, few places in the world can approach the Bay
Area in terms of innovation and technology. For me, Amsterdam is one of the
places that comes close. I've been living back and forth between SF/Marin and
Amsterdam since 2006. You'll find a buzzing community there around software
development, entrepreneurship, and innovation. (However, if you're ever
looking for VC funding, the Bay Area is leagues better than the Randstad.)

If you're looking for an employee-style relationship: To work legally, you'll
want to find a Dutch company to sponsor you so that you can get a work permit.
Another option is to get hired in the states by a MNC and get transferred.

Personally, I elected create a corporation in California, hire myself, and get
Dutch clients for our company. I travel enough that I can make due with the 90
day out of every 6-months visa-free Schengen option. Dutch companies tend to
like to do business with other culturally Dutch companies. (Technology
companies, however, are generally much more progressive in this regard.) If
you go this route, definitely have a Dutch-language web presence and consider
having a Dutch-speaking sales person as these will work wonders.

Also, if you're into cars, one very cool thing about NL and neighboring
Germany is that you can rent proper german cars, like M3's and Porsche turbos.
In NL the traffic can be a bit crowded and you have to watch out for the
camera boxes (Gatso's). I recommend taking the ICE train over to Düsseldorf.
They have a very nice selection of cars at the DÜS airport and the A3 is great
for some autobahn therapy.

Let me know if there's anything or anyone I can help you get connected with in
NL.

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howardtang
Hi, how can I get in touch? I'm moving to Amsterdam next month, but would also
be interested to chat about your experiences on continuous travel.

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apineda
I had a brief time in Amsterdam last summer during my summer travels and it
seemed to be a good scene, albeit a little scattered. That being said there
are some co-working hubs like A-Lab and meetups like Appsterdammers
([http://www.meetup.com/Appsterdam/](http://www.meetup.com/Appsterdam/)) and
their weekly event Meeten En Drinken amongst other more formal events. Mike
Lemur (@bmf on twitter) founded both those and is THE guy I would point you to
as he made a similar move from SF to Amsterdam just a few years back. It was a
very inclusive vibe and a lot of fun.

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ariejan
It's awesome. If you're doing Rails or Java, get in touch, I may be able to
make you a nice offer :-) ariejan at ariejan.net

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kohnke
Send me a pm at baskohnke (at) gmail . com. I am Dutch and run a YC start up
in SF. Happy to tell you more about the Dutch scene.

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dekhn
Please just reply on the thread so that everybody can benefit from your
knowledge.

