
Google announces next Chromebooks and a Chromebox (desktop replacement) - rryan
http://chrome.blogspot.com/2012/05/next-step-in-chrome-os-journey.html
======
rwhitman
I think whats unsaid here, and particularly telling about the Chromebox, is
that Google is gunning to be a replacement for Windows in the workplace.

The ISO certification of google apps, a cheap desktop replacement directly
integrated into google products, a laptop that keeps in sync with its desktop
counterpart, these are all significant steps into creating a fully cloud-based
workplace.

A chromebook may not become your home computer but it may soon be the cheap
laptop the IT guys at your work start issuing to employees who don't need the
heavy lifting power of a mac or windows machine...

~~~
cooldeal
Google may gun for whatever it wants to, but sales of Chromebooks have been
really dismal so far, and I seriously doubt the Chromebox is going to be much
different.

>but it may soon be the cheap laptop the IT guys at your work start issuing to
employees who don't need the heavy lifting power of a mac or windows
machine...

The Chromebook isn't much cheaper than equivalent laptops with which you can
access Google apps as well as run other programs.

~~~
sahaj
I would consider this the "test" phase for Google. They are testing the
waters, getting feedback, and adding as needed. Agile development applied to
hardware - and (I hope) soon coming to Motorola.

------
throwaway1979
I don't get it. And I'm almost a Google fanboy. I got a chromebook at Google
IO last year. I use it very sporadically .. typically when my iPad is out of
power.

The chromebox looks nice .. but can it really compare with a Mac Mini I have
hooked up to my TV? I thought Google TV was supposed to take on that role.

Google TV, Android and Chrome ... there can only be one!

~~~
Sephr
Google TV is Android 3+ with some UI changes to make it better suited for TVs.
Eventually, I think they will merge Chrome OS's great looks into the Chrome
app for all platforms (especially Android), or at least do some kind of merge
with Android and Chrome.

~~~
mtgx
I don't like the idea of having "one UI" for all form factors, like Microsoft
tries to do. I think that will only lead to being optimized for one form
factor, and significantly underoptimized for others.

Personally, I'd like to see them use some kind of "UI modes", so you have a
phone mode, a tablet mode, a TV mode, and a desktop mode (which may or may not
be the same as the tablet one, but would probably be better if they are kept
separate).

Of course, they should still make them resemble each other as much as
possible, but you can't use a tablet UI for a TV, and you can't use a phone UI
for a desktop monitor. So when I dock the phone into a PC monitor, I want to
see the desktop mode, and when I dock it into the TV, I want to see the TV
mode, and so on. I don't think there is such thing as "one UI for everything".
It may be good for one form factor, but for all the others it will be mediocre
at best.

------
filmgirlcw
I cannot believe the pricing fail here. It's insanely overpriced for what it
is -- and the reality is -- from someone who has tested one of these new
Chromebooks -- the thing STILL has major usability issues. Chrome OS has too
many bugs to depend on even if you live in a Google-fied cloud-centric world.

Still, on what planet does $330 for a desktop and up to $550 for a netbook
make sense, especially when you don't get a Windows license (assuming you're
selling to schools and businesses here)?

The netbook is dead and the iPad is the product that Chrome OS's target
customers are actually buying in droves.

~~~
edtechdev
If you don't like it, don't buy it. I personally think the Chromebook is more
useful in both education and business than an iPad. Although perhaps not as
useful as a slate might be (but those will cost >$1000 give or take and
Windows 8 is looking to be maybe not as good as people were hoping).

What if you lose or break your computer - something that happens all the time
in schools - with a chromebook it doesn't matter, just login to another one.
In businesses, the chromebook would require virtually zero IT overhead. What
if you don't want to spend extra on overpriced apps with less functionality
than free ones in the browser (like Pages vs. Google Docs + Google Cloud
Print) What if you actually want to quickly type up documents/code without
having to pay an extra $60-$75 for a keyboard?

It's $550 for a 3G chromebook, compared to $629 for a 4G or $529 for a 3G
ipad. Pretty comparable - not to mention the firmware on the chromebook is
open so I would expect to see people running ubuntu or android on these
devices, too.

------
mey
[http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/05/slick-new-
chromebook-...](http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/05/slick-new-chromebook-
first-chromebox-desktop-out-from-samsung-today/)

------
uptown
The Chromebox feels about $180 too expensive.

~~~
ditojim
compared to what?

~~~
uptown
Compared to what I need and what I'm willing to spend for the features the
product offers. It fals short of what I need a desktop to do, so that means
it's better suited as a TV-connected device. But the GoogleTV does much of
what you'd want a Google device that's connected to your TV to do and only
costs $100. Alternately, many TVs will offer GoogleTV integration if that's
what a consumer really wants. Or, if you've got an Apple ecosystem of devices
in your household, the AppleTV and Mountain Lion will likely offer you better
connectivity for that content. If you're a gamer then an XBOX360 and the
myriad of supported streaming services it now offers (Amazon, HBO, MLB, etc.)
can stream the most-common services to your TV. But let's say your desktop
computing needs are different than mine, and you still want a desktop PC. A
cheap Inspiron offers all of the Google browser-based services PLUS you can
run all of the Windows applications too, so why not go with that instead? You
can get an underpowered device that can do basic desktop stuff for less than
this costs, or if your needs demand it, you have the option of adding better
hardware to meet your specific needs.

------
simonsarris
Edit: Apparently there are shortcuts that are not typical on Windows that
apply to the Cr-48. I was a dope with my chromebook all this time! I should
have known better.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_keyboard_shortcuts#Tex...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_keyboard_shortcuts#Text_editing)

Original comment:

Unfortunately these laptops still have the same problem as the original Cr-48.
None of these keyboards are suited for basic text editing as they lack the
home/end/delete keys, which would be a minimum for a lot of people, and the
entire 6-key cluster still-in-place would be much preferred.

This is the keyboard, by the way, which is identical my old Cr-48:

[http://ecx.images-
amazon.com/images/I/815Dnur3O6L._AA1500_.j...](http://ecx.images-
amazon.com/images/I/815Dnur3O6L._AA1500_.jpg)

Making blog posts, using google docs, jsfiddle, Ace, StackOverflow, etc. All
of these are a frustrating experience after a while if you are used to using a
normal keyboard and are then forced to forego the home/end cluster.

If the difference between a tablet and a Chromebook is a keyboard, why can't
they take writing seriously?

~~~
mibbitier
Macs don't have home/end/delete. Personally I don't miss them.

~~~
duskwuff
They kinda do, actually - fn+left/right is home/end, fn+up/down is
pageup/down, fn+backspace ("delete") is forward delete.

~~~
idleloops
I like the way you said kinda - sometimes they aren't as you would expect.

------
nthitz
If I am able to watch videos that are stored on my Google Drive on a Chromebox
connected to a television I would be very interested in this.

~~~
michaelbuckbee
For $200 you can get a Boxee Box from Dlink, which has a HDMI out, a very
slick remote and will play back 1080p videos over wireless from any network
share (it's basically a physical manifestation of VLC).

~~~
nthitz
Currently using a WD Live which does pretty much all you said although the
interface is kind of poor. Only paid $50 though, but I'll check the Boxee out.

~~~
Danieru
The Boxee is based off of XBMC so it will be a night&day improvement over the
WD.

------
jeffehobbs
I'm glad to see them iterating, and in exactly the way they should -- The
original Chromebooks were a neat concept, but too underpowered.

------
msh
But can something like the chromebook survive in a ipad world? Maybe for some,
but while I could be in the market for a chromebook (if it came before the
ipad I would properly own one) but a tablet fits my 2nd computer device much
better.

I can survive with only a chromebook, so it would need to supplement my main
computer, and in that regard I think my ipad (or properly a android tablet) is
a much better suplement.

~~~
filmgirlcw
No. It can't. And that's why it has been an utter failure in the marketplace.

Google toyed with subsidizing the costs more to try to use it to push more
enterprise services to business and education customers but it never gained
traction (and from I understand, they were practically willing to give them
away).

The large-scale use case for Chrome OS is minuscule.

------
ilaksh
So Chromebox is Mini-ITX, or is it smaller?

I sure hope this inspires other companies to release more smaller desktops. I
don't see any reason why we should have to keep lugging around giant boxes
anymore.

And actually you can get very powerful systems in Mini-ITX now, doesn't have
to be bargain-power like these Chromeboxes on Amazon. Although dual-core is
probably more than enough for most things.

------
ChuckMcM
Sigh, this sounds neat "The new Chromebook and Chromebox, based on Intel Core
processors, are nearly three times as fast as the first-generation
Chromebooks."

Except when you click the 'buy now' and go to either the NewEgg or the Amazon
store all you get are Atom N570 choices or the Celeron for the ChromeBox. Did
somebody forget to the HW guys to use the new Ivy Bridge processors?

Is this some sort of weird "Quick lets announce something before Apple creams
us with the new Macbook Pro?" (ok that is a bit cynical but still). I'd love
to see the 'new' Chromebooks that can compete with the 'old' Macbook Air
because I'd love to have something with the build quality of the Air and the
simplicity of ChromeOS to recommend to my non programming friends. You're
letting me down Google, bad dog, no biscuit.

~~~
Kylekramer
Why would Google push towards the high end? They already have people
complaining Chromebooks cost too much. It would be a massive waste of money
and effort to build MacBook Air style Chromebooks, with an absurdly small
market even if done well. And I don't think Google could do that well.

~~~
ChuckMcM
I would love to hear more about how you reason to "absurdly small market."

When I look at the market, and especially after the pretty remarkable success
of the iPad, I see a clear line from smartphone, through smart tablet, to
smart laptop. My expectation is that Apple will release an iOS based version
of the Macbook Air for just this reason.

This is my reasoning for that expectation. The iPad has taken a chunk out of
the laptop market. A number of folks who would have bought a laptop bought an
iPad instead this year. The number one reason that folks give for _not_
replacing their laptop with an iPad is that "they can't type on it." and
carrying multiple elements around (bluetooth keyboard etc) is inconvenient.

When you get a device which has a high quality screen, and an attached
keyboard, and can be used anywhere on 3G, you will capture a much bigger chunk
of the laptop market.

Now granted, I've been working this since 1999 when I pitched the 'appliance'
laptop to Venture funds (they declined to fund because they didn't feel anyone
could ship a product against windows and succeed), and I pitched it to the
Android team when I was at Google (and while I take no credit at _all_ for
ChromeOS it did a lot of the things I had proposed in my JaDE project, so they
were on the same wavelength). When I did my VC pitch I had commissioned some
surveys and found that a significant chunk of people who owned a computer
didn't want the "compute" part, they wanted just the web
browsing/emailing/document prep part. Further it _bothered_ them that their
computer had all this stuff that they never used, and was often a source of
exploits by third parties.

So as I pushed inside Google for this the primary push back was "Ok, I got
that already, its my phone doofus. C'mon network computers are soo last
century, didn't you work on diskless workstations back in the stone age? How
did that work out for you?" And I get that its not very sexy to propose the
21st century equivalent of the VT100 but that did not change the fact that the
_data_ says that people want these things.

So I keep hoping Google will/would step outside their complexes and build a
laptop killer. And they are getting closer and closer. These machines are
clearly an improvement over the first generation both in software and in
hardware. I feel like they had an opportunity here to get out in front of
Apple, but given the announcement I don't think they did.

For me, it makes June 11th (Apple's WWDC keynote) more interesting than it
might otherwise have been.

~~~
Kylekramer
I have no doubt that "network computers" are going to have a bit of
renaissance soon. I just doubt that people will be in a rush to buy a $1000
version. People may like simpler computing experiences, but they won't buy
just based on that. The iPad took off cause it is a sexy (and fairly cheap)
product. The simplicity just enhanced the experience. High end Chromebooks
would basically require the purchaser to value simplicity over everything.
They would have to not buy cheaper computers that check off more features and
can even run Chrome themselves. And I just think the amount of people who are
aware of their limitations and will spend more than the average person to
accommodate them is very small.

~~~
ChuckMcM
Thank you for that response.

What is really cool is that we may see folks actually get this choice and then
we can come back around and talk about it again.

A funny (and true) story: I got to intern at IBM in the late 70s. The Altair
8800 was getting a lot of press and Apple had just jumped in with the Apple
II. I lusted after a Sol-80 at the time. Anyway, there was an on going
discussion at IBM as to whether or not anyone would really pay what it would
cost to make a "real" computer for individuals. So they built one, it ran a
hacked up version of the software their other computers ran called TSO/MVS. It
had a very serialized 370 architecture to cut down on complexity, and limited
batch capability. It would have retailed for about $17,000 to make the kinds
of margins IBM expected. (many of the parts got reused in the 5100 but that is
different story)

It was a total failure of course, nobody wanted a computer for themselves, it
was just a bunch of overly ambitious EE's over promising and under delivering
by using calculator chips to make something that could run stored programs.
IBM was not a calculator company, so that was a market they weren't going to
enter. A complete renegade at IBM had a different view and built their vision
in a widely derided project in Boca Raton FL (even _then_ it wasn't much of a
tech bastion). The resulting machine, the IBM PC, was a huge deal. And like
the iPad it surprised its own maker at how many they sold.

I relate that story because I think we're on the cusp of one of those changes.
My instincts tell me that this is one of those times when renegades have an
advantage over the common knowledge. I call it out so that folks can watch it
happen, or not. I'm really going to feel foolish next year if nothing has
changed but I'm totally ok with that. At the moment it feels like Christmas
Eve to me.

------
shriphani
The chromebox really needs to be $200. I have a Cr48 and I went and threw Win8
Consumer Preview (and it runs VS2k11 Beta - not the best experience but it is
not unusable) on it. Maybe 1 or 2 iterations later, this will be a very
competitive offering.

------
netrus
Does this raise the chances for a "Google Drive for Linux" release within the
next weeks?

~~~
rryan
Chrome OS is a very different beast from desktop GNU/Linux distributions so I
don't think that's a fair assumption.

~~~
ajross
It's really not, once you get beneath the user-facing skin (most of which is,
obviously, implemented as just a bunch of Chrome extensions). It's a Linux
distro running X.org. It's much (much!) closer to Ubuntu or Fedora than it is
to Android.

~~~
mtgx
I believe it was built in Ubuntu. I know they worked with Canonical on it
before they announced it.

------
rdl
I'm really sad that the Chromebox only has Bluetooth 3.0 (not 4.0/LE), and the
Chromebook 550 doesn't seem to list Bluetooth at all.

LE would be amazing for the kind of corporate environments the Box would work
in -- as a user presence/locking token.

------
joejohnson
Despite the initial Chromebooks being widely considered a failure, they push
on with the next iteration of this product. Google has the kind of
determination that only obscene amounts of money can buy.

~~~
mtgx
It was mostly a pricing failure, one which they unfortunately repeated again
this time. Yes, it did have usability problems, and it has been greatly
improved, but you know as they say: there is no bad product, only bad pricing.

Chromebooks would sell for $200, or free on contract with LTE. They won't sell
for $450.

~~~
Karunamon
$30 a month for business customers if they'd open it up to the general public.
And with a few meg of free 3g.. I can imagine that taking off nicely.

I'm waiting for them to get rid of the 3 unit minimum.

------
gouranga
Do you still have to use a google account to use chromeos?

~~~
laconian
I believe you can sign in as a guest, but it won't save your browser settings.
Since ChromeOS is all about having data "in the cloud" and keeping as little
mutable state on the computer as possible, I guess this makes sense.

Can we coin an abbreviation for "in the cloud"? I put it in quotation marks to
avoid the unconscious eyerolling that I do when I use that phrase in a non-
ironic fashion. "ITC"?

~~~
gouranga
PLAYD - possibly loses all your data?

How's that one?

~~~
jrockway
Google's data centers are slightly more reliable than the average laptop hard
drive.

~~~
gouranga
But are they as reliable and available as a laptop and a USB stick? That's a
hard one to prove.

~~~
mtgx
I assume they make back-ups all the time, so yes. Definitely more reliable for
most people.

~~~
gouranga
That's a pretty big assumption, for example:

[http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/09/atlassian_cloud_stor...](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/09/atlassian_cloud_storage_outage/)

------
wavephorm
Google's still trying to sell netbooks? Really? Sometimes I wonder if they are
aware that the iPad has completely obliterated the market for
underpowered/overpriced netbooks.

~~~
mibbitier
Completely different market. People don't type on an iPad for long periods.

~~~
wavephorm
So there's actually a market of people that don't want a fully capable laptop,
and don't want a tablet + external keyboard, and want a web-only miniature
laptop? I think these Chromebooks are targeted at market that actually does
not exist.

~~~
dannyr
And this based on what? One data point (You)?

~~~
falling
Please stop. We don’t always have to ask for data to prove one’s opinion.
Opinions are opinions, you can have them without data to back them up, basing
them on your own experience, they are still valid. If you have a different
opinion discuss that instead of just dropping the stupid [citation needed].

I’m not saying whether I agree or not with the OP, but I certainly disagree
with your way of having a discussion by not having one.

Also certainly Chromebooks are somewhat puzzling because of their overlap with
Android tablets, especially ones like the Asus Transformer to which you can
attach a keyboard and have basically the same thing with a slightly different
OS that sync your data everywhere anyway.

Having a discussion on how they are different and why both would be useful is
an interesting conversation to have, shutting it down with “where’s your data”
is stupid.

So, if you want to discuss, provide your reasons why they are useful instead
of trying to shut off people with petty arguments.

~~~
dannyr
I'm calling out the arrogance of people to make conclusions just based on one
data which is usually just their own.

In my other comment, I said I don't know anybody who watches Big Bang Theory.
But I can't make a statement that nobody watches it just because I don't know
anyone who does.

