
How many Commodore 64 computers were sold? (2011) - mkesper
https://www.pagetable.com/?p=547
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jacobush
So, if you count also the Commodore 128, you'd reach over 20 million units.
(And I would make a case that you should count the Commodore 128, since those
were mostly used for C64 software, and even in the rare case that they were
used in their C128 capacity, their owners certainly knew the computer could
run C64 software too. I think some professional software made use of the
capabilities of the C128 over the C64. It could also run CP/M software!)

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nineteen999
It could also run CP/M software because it included a Z80 on the motherboard.
In fact the Z80 was in control of the system at power on and only transferred
control to the 8502 if a CP/M disk was not detected.

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sillyquiet
The "8-Bit Guy" on youtube has a pretty good retrospective on the C-64 as part
of his broader history of Commodore series.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpXFB8ZEH30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpXFB8ZEH30)

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technothrasher
It's been a while since I looked at the C64 Serial Registry. For a long time I
had the earliest serial number recorded there that wasn't a prototype. Looks
like I've been topped!

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WilliamEdward
It seems like everyone and their mother had one of these. Every time i read
the backstory of a famous person in tech, inevitably their childhood was spent
programming a commodore. What made it so fascinating?

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jchw
I think the real answer was it was one of the first computers that made sense;
it was relatively cheap, especially compared to IBM, but had 64k of memory and
color graphics (and better color graphics than IBM had, at that.) It boots
directly to BASIC and comes with a book that explains the machine and how to
write code for it. I don’t think that was uncommon for the era, but seriously,
imagine that today!

The Commodore 64’s appeal never really ended. I was born in ‘93 so there’s not
really any nostalgia in it for me, but I just recently bought a broken
Commodore 64 and got it all working.

For one thing, there’s something to be said about the simplicity. 3 screws
gets you into the computer, and ~6 more gets the motherboard out. The board is
simple, only 2 layers, and you can debug it with a logic probe and not really
much else. Most chips have fairly distinct functions, except the VIC-2 and SID
chips which each handle a laundry list of things aside from their primary jobs
of generating video and audio signals.

It’s an interesting machine because it is a fairly consistent platform. People
still write demos and games, and they still run on pretty much any Commodore
64. Well OK, you probably need a PAL one, but that’s a single jumper, a
different VIC-II, and a different clock away. (Someone this October just
created a module that lets you switch by using 4 relays that connect to the
jumper, 2 VIC chips and 2 clocks. I installed this in my C64.) You can count
instructions, race the beam, flip registers mid scanline, and all kinds of fun
stuff, and it will probably work on another C64 just the same.

The community has created some seriously cool stuff, both software and
hardware wise. Hardware wise the 1541 Ultimate-II is mindblowing. It plugs
into the userport and floppy drive ports (and optionally, datasette port) and
emulates, with cycle accuracy and even a speaker producing drive-like noises,
a Commodore 1541 floppy drive, a REU memory expansion, and a host of other
devices. It even has ethernet for FTPing to.

In short, the thing is, it’s quite honestly still fascinating. It is a
computer you can understand, yet seemingly holds unlimited tricks, and there’s
an enormous ecosystem that is somehow still growing.

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tabtab
To clarify, "PAL" refers to the European TV standard, correct? Commodore had
to make a different sub-model for Europe versus US because the TV signals are
governed by different standards in each continent. The screen refresh rate in
particular is different. Some software depended on (assumed) one or the other,
probably because it was intended to be continent-specific or used hardware
tricks to squeeze out higher perceived performance.

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reaperducer
Was there a SECAM version?

I remember a lot of French software for the 64.

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jchw
Apparently the SECAM version just had a board to convert the signal to SECAM
installed.

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jacobush
And the rich parents just bought Commodore monitors for them instead.

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mattl
> Nobody doubts that the C64 was the greatest selling single computer model of
> all time

There were at least two models of the C64... the brown breadbin style one and
the sleak white model from the 90s.

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reaperducer
I guess it depends on how to defined "model."

An IBM PS/2 30 is a vastly different model of computer from a PS/2 70, but
they're both IBM PS/2's.

The bread bin C-64 and the 128-looking C-64 were the same† computer in a
slightly different shaped case.

† Yes, the motherboard was a different revision, but even in the breadbin 64,
the motherboard was revised several times.

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rusk
There were some subtle differences between these models. Most notably the
sound chip.

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einr
Of course, Commodore being Commodore (notorious for not sticking to spec and
instead frequently just using whatever parts they had in stock or could get a
good deal on), there are C64C's with "breadbin" motherboards and breadbins
with C64C motherboards (C64G, etc.), and while _most_ C64C's have the 8580 SID
and _most_ breadbins have the 6581, this is not true 100% of the time. You
really have to open any given C64 to see what you're actually dealing with.

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rusk
Well, the thing about the SID in particular, is that it relied upon
imperfections in the MOS silicon fabrication process to produce certain
analogue effects (a fairly common approachh in electronic instruments in the
80s). Problem is, that as processes improved it gets harder to produce noise
in this way. The later generations of SID produced a “cleaner” sound, but not
faithful to the original to the point that certain effects exploting these
imperfections (eg some funky sound sample techniques) were broken on the newer
version. I’ve read somewhere that it isn't possible to produce the SID at all
with modern technology because processes are just so “clean” now.

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Udik
> Nobody doubts that the C64 was the greatest selling single computer model of
> all time

The most sold computer of all time is probably the iPhone 6, with 220 million
devices sold.

Edit: wow, people feel _very_ strongly about this! :)

I've been a proud c64 owner (and programmer) myself. It was more than anything
else to point out that smartphones _are_ personal computers, just very
"evolved".

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parasubvert
Many are broadly still in denial about how most computing is mobile and how
big Apple has become. The iPhone is the most successful product line in
history, at sales of 1.6 billion units and over 1 trillion dollars in revenue.

[http://www.asymco.com/2019/05/16/the-
pivot/#identifier_0_819...](http://www.asymco.com/2019/05/16/the-
pivot/#identifier_0_8192)

The c64 was still extremely impressive for its day and its impact (I used mine
through 1993!), but computing is now mostly mobile.

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jdkee
For computers, sure. As for overall products I would argue that the disposable
diaper has the most units sold of any mass produced product.

~~~
parasubvert
Unit sales don’t tell the whole story, if they did then yeah, consumables
would but far bigger.

That said, if you took any disposable diaper product line, say Pampers, and
accumulated all the revenue and profit since its launch in the 70s, it still
wouldn’t come close to the iPhone. I think that goes for pretty much any
specific product line. The Toyota Corolla gets close in terms of revenue - 44
million cars is pushing near a trillion dollars, but that’s also over 50+
years. You’d have to get into entire inflation-adjusted product categories
(like all mobile phones, or all automobile sedans) to cross into a few
trillion dollars.

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jonbaer
Kinda curious what the total TRS80 numbers were as well, those were the 2
options in my day(s), the C64 vs TRS80(CC) ... I don't know what the economics
of it were which made parents choose the TRS (Tandy/RadioShack maybe?), the
C64 eventually made it's way to ToysRUs and other outlets.

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eplanit
I would add in the TI99/4A. Wikipedia has some un-confirmed stats
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_TI-99/4A](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_TI-99/4A)):

 _Sales peaked at 30,000 a week in January 1983,[citation needed] but on 10
January 1983 Commodore lowered the price of its computers. In February TI
responded with a 99 /4A retail price of $150. In April, the VIC-20's bundled
retail price reached $100 and the 99/4A followed suit. In May it began
offering the PEB for free with the purchase of three peripherals. In August
the company reduced prices of peripherals by 50% and offered $100 of free
software; in September, it reduced software prices by up to 43%._

 _The president of Spectravideo later said that "TI got suckered by" Jack
Tramiel, head of Commodore. TI was forced to sell the 99/4A for about the same
price as the VIC-20, even though it was much more expensive to manufacture._

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jacobush
Mmm, Spectravideo. I started on an SVI-328, lovely machine. The MSX standard
was based on it. (Almost the same, only a slightly dumber BASIC and some
addresses changed. Back in the day, you could "patch" the SVI-328 in software
and then run much MSX software on it. If I had only known back then...
information did not flow as freely back then.)

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andym00
Wow, remember the walk to the train station after school one day where myself,
and several other nerds would stop by the local computer shop and drool over
what we’d be asking for on our birthdays or upcoming christmases.. I remember
the day the Spectravideo turned up.. It was #1 in my mind for quite some
time.. Obviously something big and better happened, but by golly, that is one
of those few I must have moments.. I did get one, some 20 years later }:-8)

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tabtab
If the 12.5m figure is correct, it would probably still hold the record,
wouldn't it? The Apple II, TRS-80 model III, or the IBM-brand original PC are
the only contenders I can think of.

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MarcScott
I think the Raspberry Pi must be sitting at over 20 million sold by now.

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HeXetic
I don't think comparing a modern tiny processing platform to old fairly large
desktop boxes achieves anything. An iPhone 6 has more computing power than
even the Pi and it's sold 222 million.

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einr
The Raspberry Pi, despite its physical size, is a full-blown general purpose
personal computer. There is nothing about a Pi that is fundamentally different
from a desktop PC or, indeed, a C64.

