
Ask YC:  Paul Graham's 18 Mistakes that Kill Startups:  Which are no longer an issue when developing Facebook apps? - amichail
Which of these mistakes (if any) are no longer an issue when developing Facebook apps?<p><a href="http://www.paulgraham.com/startupmistakes.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.paulgraham.com/startupmistakes.html</a>
======
cperciva
Personally, I don't think "Single Founder" is an issue for facebook apps --
pg's argument of "It probably means the founder couldn't talk any of his
friends into starting the company with him" is only valid if you're trying to
talk your friends into joining you. (In my case, even though I'm not doing a
facebook app, I've turned down offers with a "uhh, thanks... but I really
don't need any help right now".) Different startups require different amounts
of manpower, just like different startups require different amounts of capital
-- I think most facebook applications easily fall into the "one person is
enough" category.

As for the rest... I'd say they're all relevant to varying degrees. Probably
"Bad Location" is less relevant, since it's partly about finding angels and VC
(which are less important since facebook apps generally need less capital);
while "Hiring Bad Programmers" is probably more relevant (if you're hiring
anyone at all, at least), since most greybeards are old enough to have not
drunk the facebook kool-aid.

~~~
aswanson
I never drank the Single Founder kool-aid either.

Completely off-topic, cperciva, but regarding your startup, why are you giving
away your strongest asset (secure backup implementation and code) in order to
make money on an increasingly commoditized product (the storage itself)? I
would think it would be in your interest to do the opposite. Am I missing
something?

~~~
cperciva
I'm not giving away the tarsnap code. I'll make the source code available for
people to inspect (and compile for themselves) so that they don't have to
blindly trust the binaries I provide; but it will be under a "you can use this
only as part of the tarsnap backup service" license.

~~~
aswanson
I see. At any rate, you may want to consider divorcing your product from any
particular storage scheme. Corporate customers, who usually honor licenses,
have tons of unused storage (on every desktop). You might want to consider a
distributed scheme where, from a common management tool, an operator could
have a virtual encrypted backup across an enterprise.

In any event, good luck and godspeed.

~~~
cperciva
_you may want to consider divorcing your product from any particular storage
scheme_

I've considered that, and might do that at some point in the future. That
said, I'm aiming more at the home user / small business market -- large
corporations have other options (e.g., backup appliances from EMC and
suchlike).

I figure that I'll build the version of tarsnap that I want to use, and
if/when that becomes popular I'll decide where to go next based on demand.

~~~
boucher
If you wanted to go really nuts you could distribute a "one click" version of
HDFS that people could run at home, letting their existing network take care
of redundancy.

~~~
aswanson
He has a point.

------
Alex3917
Developing a Facebook app is mistake 19.

~~~
rob
Say that to the people making $500/day++ with their app.

~~~
marcus
Sometimes you can make a lot of money even if you make a mistake. Sometimes
even if you make quite a few mistakes. There are quite a few startups that had
the wrong platform and survived, quite a few that had only one founder and
survived and so on.

The fact that something is a mistake doesn't mean its a fatal one. And that
fact alone doesn't mean it is not a mistake.

The question you should ask yourself is whether your startup be better off if
you hadn't made that choice.

------
lanej0
What's the revenue model on a Facebook app? You're getting a tiny piece of
advertising pie? Sorry, but building a company based off of what amounts to a
plugin for someone else's software just doesn't seem like a good idea to me...

... that said, I guess it was done with PhotoShop a bunch of times. But people
had to pay up front for that software.

Or are we returning to the dot com days where revenue doesn't matter -- it's
all about pageviews?

~~~
marcus
That was the point I was trying to make. Perhaps you get easier access to
liquidity and can gather users a tad faster but in the end you have very
little control. You don't own the liquidity you are borrowing it, you don't
even have a TOS contract (at least that one that I could find) with facebook,
they can shut you down without any warning.

Even if you can make a very profitable app, imagine trying to IPO a facebook
app... How do you think investors would evaluate the risk.

I can understand developing a facebook app as a part of a more comprehensive
strategy as a complimentary tool to your website. That might be a very
powerful tactic but as a standalone product, I just don't get it.

Again if anyone understands this differently I'd love to finally see what I am
missing here...

~~~
amichail
I don't live in a place where VC funding is likely and I don't have a partner.
I'm also not good at web design nor do I have good contacts among top web 2.0
bloggers.

And from my startup prototypes so far, I have learned that most users have
very little patience, understand little, and generally don't contribute much.

For these reasons, toy Facebook apps seem to be my best bet. I also like the
idea of playing with people's minds, easily tweaking things here and there to
see what sort of psychological/sociological impact they will have, etc.

~~~
lanej0
Okay, so you're talking about developing a hobby, not a business. Unless
you've come up with a new way to convert "psychological/sociological impact"
into dollars.

~~~
amichail
I think some Facebook apps make quite a lot of money in advertising -- at
least enough income for the few developers involved.

~~~
cvfoss
I think that's the majority of the reason. If you're getting a couple million
views a day on some silly facebook app, that can be a big deal for a smaller
company.

I read iLike added 3 million users in two weeks with their Facebook app
(<http://mashable.com/2007/06/11/ilike-facebook-app-success/>). That's pretty
significant.

------
neilk
I don't see any mistake that is obviously eliminated for Facebook apps, and
problem #7 (choosing the wrong platform) is a significant risk.

However, it's not clear that single Facebook apps qualify as startups in
Paul's sense. At least today, FB apps are more like content that plug into an
existing distribution network, like movies + distributors or blogs + AdSense.

If you wanted to found a business that made FB apps, many per year, that's a
different story. Then you'd be more like a game studio.

------
nkohari
I think it really depends. Most of the applications that currently exist on
Facebook are defined by Facebook itself. That is to say, the applications add
to the features of Facebook, rather than Facebook adding to the application. I
think that soon, we will start seeing sites rely on Facebook's API to drive
the social infrastructure of their site. In this way, the site would be self-
sufficient, but could take advantage of Facebook's platform to add value to
their own offering.

I'll bet dollars to donuts that the applications that receive grants from the
fbFund will be of this ilk rather than a SuperMegaUltraPoke or Vampires and
Pirate Ninjas application. At least, I hope so. If not, Facebook apps will
never mature, and will be the flash in the pan that many think they will.

------
DarrenStuart
single founder comment is complete rubbish. If someone has the drive and
ability then why shouldn't do it. Saying that just because they couldn't talk
any of their friends into joining them is so small minded. I have lots of
friends but none of them are techie and or interested in startups so does that
mean I shouldn't have started my business because none of them are into it? I
know Paul has a cult following around here but he really does seem to think
everyone doing tech startups are collage grads.

~~~
marcus
I agree some projects are great fits for single founders but you should be
able to convince at least one rational person this is a good idea and is worth
investing the time, energy, money into.

It doesn't matter if that person is your spouse, a co-founder, an angel - but
make sure at least one person whose opinion you respect and has something to
lose if you fail/waste your time thinks this is a good idea.

~~~
DarrenStuart
totally, people can give you feedback on ideas. If its too big for you at that
time store it until you have made some contacts that can help you do it or
have the money to hire the skills needed. I work this way.

