
Why Recruiters Are Universally Hated - kanmei
https://gist.github.com/kanmei/7606194
======
chimeracoder
I strongly disagree with the premise of this title (or the conclusion of the
story).

Bad recruiters are bad, yes. But there are good recruiters (even if they're
hard to find!)

A good recruiter knows not to do things like spam developer mailing lists,
stiff candidates on reimbursements, or any of the many ridiculous shenanigans
we often hear stories about. A good recruiter also knows that the best way to
recruit talent is to develop longstanding relationships with said talent, and
therefore understands that meeting with developers who aren't actively looking
for a job is not only a valuable use of their time, but arguably the _most
valuable_ use of their time[0].

That said, I've had my fair share of bad experiences with recruiters. I'm
_still_ waiting on a travel reimbursement for a company I interviewed with
(and eventually turned down, partly because of this debacle) months ago. (It's
not a 2-person, bootstrapped company; they have well more than enough cash to
cover a ~$500 check.)

I really wish there were a "wall of shame" for companies that take more then 2
months to reimburse people (especially student candidates) for travel
expenses. Six months (the longest I have ever had to wait, from a well-funded
company that was later acquihired) is the longest I've heard of.

[0] Yes, I had a recruiter stop responding to my emails a couple of years ago
when I told him that I was several months away from graduating and wanted to
wait a couple of months before actually beginning the interview process.

~~~
canistr
I agree, the title is more link-bait of an individual's situation with one
particular agency than any form of generalization of the recruitment process.
Flagged for title change.

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tjpd
For businesses the UK is quite clear on payment terms: "If you haven’t already
agreed when the money will be paid, the law says the payment is late after 30
days for public authorities and business transactions after either: the
customer gets the invoice or you deliver the goods or provide the service (if
this is later)"[1]

So this: "I see no payment terms so it will be at my discretion when we
release payment" actually means " could mean kanmei can now claim interest and
debt recovery costs.

[1] [https://www.gov.uk/late-commercial-payments-interest-debt-
re...](https://www.gov.uk/late-commercial-payments-interest-debt-recovery)

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hapless
Recruiting is a two-sided market with high stakes and perverse incentives. Any
time money and conflicting interests collide in the same actor, _weird stuff
happens_

Recruiting attracts good faith actors and bad faith actors. It makes good
people do bad things, and sometimes makes bad people your friends (at least as
long as it takes to get your placement)

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gmisra
This is clearly a strongly negative experience for one individual, but
probably not a shocking story.

But why did this up-voted to the frontpage in a matter of minutes? It's
currently in the top 10, after 40 minutes.

In my experience, the title is a fairly common sentiment amongst software
engineers...until they join in on hiring responsibilities for their team(s),
and then the relative value of recruiters becomes rapidly apparent.

~~~
nknighthb
I was on the hiring side _before_ I had my first encounter with a recruiter.
They're worthless. Floods of bad candidates, almost never anything worth
pursuing. Promising candidates come almost exclusively through some form of
contact that bypasses any form of in-house or external recruiter. Being-hired
experience is the exact mirror: Contacted constantly about positions utterly
unsuited for me, and good matches only produce interviews if the recruiters
are bypassed.

Recruiters have _negative_ value. They are parasites.

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bowlofpetunias
Just FYI: I've had a recruiter book and pay my ticket to London in advance,
after I told him I was quite skeptical about whether this would be a good
match after a phone interview with the employer.

And it was just one of those CV-mill recruiters. It's pennies compared to what
they make if they score, so I'm guessing it's just a matter of being
assertive.

~~~
Matt_Mickiewicz
That's definitely the way to go.

Most of the VC-funded startups in SF that we're working with are more than
happy to pay for a Southwest flight and a hotel room upfront, rather than
doing the reimbursement thing.

As a general rule, the "submit receipts & wait for reimbursement" methodology
is a bad idea. If a company truly wants you, they should be rolling out the
red carpet, which includes not inconveniencing you.

On the flip side of the coin, we've had 2 separate occasions where the start-
ups paid for airfare, only to have the engineers not show up to interview. So
it definitely goes both ways...

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kassner
I'm wondering if it's ethical to spread the word about someone who didn't pay
you back. I mean, obviously the another one wasn't ethical, but are you
allowed when he/she wasn't?

PS: Surely I'll not post on HN another history of someone who didn't pay me,
I'm trying to know the ethics implicit on this scenario.

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toomuchtodo
Does anyone else get:

403 Forbidden Request forbidden by administrative rules.

I had to go to
[https://gist.github.com/kanmei/](https://gist.github.com/kanmei/) first, and
then click on the gist.

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rainmaking
I have found that when dealing with people who don't care at all about you, it
helps to include 8 or more progressively harsh credible threats in an email.

------
_kst_
Dead link. I get:

403 Forbidden

Request forbidden by administrative rules.

