
Why open office design makes people less productive - aytekin
https://medium.com/swlh/why-open-office-design-makes-you-less-productive-95d45ffba9eb
======
maxxxxx
It's interesting how bad trends persist even though most people say they are a
problem. Open office is one, excessive meetings is one, E-mail overload, Slack
and so on.

My theory is that the people in power (management) quickly get to the level
where everything they do in their jobs requires talking to multiple people and
coordinating and they apply that need to everybody's work so they think all
work is about "Collaboration" and "Connecting".

At least for engineering I think there is not that much need for constant
collaboration but there is a big need for focused work which is hard to do in
an open office.

In addition open offices even fail for collaboration. I work in a cube farm
with some open office space and I rarely see people actually collaborate
there. Instead people have headsets and are desperately trying to focus. I
used to work in team rooms before and there we talked to each other a lot in
comparison.

~~~
sametmax
Don't look so far. It's just cheaper. Also it gives managers the feeling they
can avoid people slacking off because everbody see what you are doing.

~~~
mc32
Absolutely agree with that. I’ve also seen it cargo culted. It’s been
implemented because, “well, if successful multibillion dollar companies are
doing it, it must be good... it's probably part their success.”

Of course pointing out the negative aspects and asking questions automatically
got you labeled as “not being a team player.”

~~~
existencebox
This is an issue on which I feel strongly enough to speak about on an account
I've connected to my employer. (I am a Microsoftie, and not because I think
you believe this, but to support your point) It's _certainly not_ part of our
success. I'd even go so far as to say our success is in spite of it.

I've seen many engineers, including the single most competent dev I've ever
worked with, migrate to other companies as their teams were moved out of
personal offices or into larger open offices. I've also seen my own (and my
teammate's) work and culture suffer, as we have to work later, fight
distractions, and often politik internally to fight for the "best seat"
(actually having one wall). This is, to me, an absurd situation to put
professional adults in.

This process is only partially complete, and changes take a while to take
effect, so it's to be seen what the tractable results are, but in the same way
I called out our bad choice by the manner in which we dissolved SDETs, the
push for open offices is a canonically bad choice.

(This is only my opinion, I in no way speak for the company etc etc)

~~~
maxxxxx
The funny thing is that years ago when MS was at the top of the world MS
always pointed out that every dev had a private office and made it sound like
that was the secret of their success.

~~~
existencebox
Having been on a team moved out of single offices, and being able to look at
our ship schedule pre and post, I would agree with that it was, at least for
us, the secret sauce. (or perhaps more accurately, the people we lost due to
losing our offices were a component of that secret sauce)

I almost wish I had never had an office in hindsight, because when I was just
crammed into open spaces out of uni I took it in stride, but once I had an
office years back I refused to go back to open spaces, the QOL hit was just
too significant.

It's really a constant wonder for me how the powers that be at various bigCo's
have managed to sell this disaster. I have to think it's money, but every
higher up I've probed seems to drink the koolaid on the surface
("collaberation! teamwork!")

------
notacoward
I really like the team-room idea mentioned near the end. The noise from my
immediate peers doesn't bother me. It really is useful to overhear others'
conversations sometimes, or pull someone in on a moment's notice, and when
there's a high level of social connection people can agree on when to be
quiet. What really drives me nuts is constantly hearing the conversations of
people two aisles over, talking about something that couldn't possibly be of
interest to me. And the people walking through, because not everyone gets to
be around the edges. (In one workspace I sometimes occupy, the edge is all
taken up by conference rooms so _everyone_ is in the middle with people
walking past.) There's a reason that every desk in an open-office layout seems
to have at least one pair of headphones on it. That's a poor solution where an
obviously better one exists.

~~~
Corrado
I've actually worked in a small team environment several times and I really
love it. At one point we were in an old vault with no windows and concrete
walls, and it was great. We all had the same taste in music so we just cranked
it up and let the sales guys outside do their thing and they left us alone.

In another case I was in a room with 8 people arranged into 2 "pods". We all
worked on similar projects and would often turn to each other to get help,
show something off, etc. I got sick more often that year (I think the
ventilation in that room was bad) but we were very productive and I really
enjoyed working there.

------
cortesoft
I have always been blessed (and cursed) with the ability to block out
everything around me. It bothers people, actually, because they will come talk
to me and I won’t realize they are standing at my desk talking.

I still don’t like open offices. I hate the lack of privacy.

------
EngineerBetter
Why are "open offices are bad" stories so popular on HN?

I've only ever worked in open plan offices, and can't say I've ever had a
problem concentrating. I'm not sure what alternatives are popular, but if an
employer forced me to work in a cubicle I'd immediately quit without
hesitation. Having visited cubicle offices, they strike me as inhumane
detention centres.

~~~
tompagenet2
Pure speculation: HNs perhaps more likely to have a personality type that
values personal time and extreme concentration, which open plan might be less
useful for. Also HNs perhaps have tendency towards being contrary or
iconoclastic, so as open plan popular, articles decrying it popular here

~~~
maxxxxx
I think it's the type of work. You can't do deep concentrated work in a
bullpen.

------
plmpsu
Can anyone chime in regarding the economics and cost savings of open floor
plans vs. private per-team offices (or the like)?

As an employee working in an open space, their costs on subjective well being,
quality of work & etc. are so obvious to me that I sometimes get upset that
employers and I do not agree on the issue.

------
utopkara
I had an office (in _the_ company which pioneered individual offices for their
dedicated building for creatives many decades ago), and I have worked in open
office settings. There are times when you want to think on your own, but I
don't think it is impossible to achieve if you have a good pair of noise
cancelling headphones. In return, you get to interact with peers more openly.
Not to mention the cost savings for the company. This is absolutely a win-win.
Although, the devil is in the details, and they are neither easy nor cheap:
Open office settings have to be implemented with the flexibility to
occasionally work from home; ample amount of meeting rooms for impromptu
huddles; well designed ergonomics; absolutely relaxing decor and setup.

~~~
notacoward
The cost-savings argument doesn't really work. For one thing, those savings
aren't real. What does "ample amount of meeting rooms" mean? It means a higher
seat-per-employee ratio, just to make up for the inconvenience of their main
seats not being usable for those huddles. And speaking of inconvenience, time
spent walking to/from rooms and waiting outside rooms for the last group to
get out and adjusting chairs and wiping boards and picking up your crap is all
time not spent producing. I've seen many people lose 5-10 minutes of
productivity every hour of every day like that. That's not cost savings.
Neither is the effect on productivity when people are in their primary seats.
Look at any company's expense breakdown. Personnel will be at or near the top;
real estate will be much further down. Keeping people more productive is a
much bigger cost savings than cheaping out on real estate.

I contend that there is no way to implement an open-office system that truly
reduces costs. The only reason they're so common is a combination of cost
insensitivity and cargo culting.

~~~
utopkara
Meeting room switch does take time, and it is a cost, cannot argue with facts.
However, real estate cost is not high only if the company is located in the
woods. If one is looking to grow workforce in a central location, the real
estate cost is through the roof. Keep in mind that companies do not start at
their final size; so the efficiency of the space will be far lower during the
earlier stages.

~~~
notacoward
"In the woods"? Please. There are plenty of places that are rich in tech
talent without being as grossly overpriced as Silicon Valley or NYC. Facebook,
Google, Amazon, etc. have substantial offices in many of them, often all right
next to each other, and they tend to attract startups as well. There are more
reasonably priced options even in Silicon Valley, if some CEO-baby is willing
to work somewhere other than their absolute first choice in SF or Manhattan -
and if they're not then I seriously question their business acumen. Wherever
your office is, your employees need places to live, and you'll have to pay
commensurate salaries so they can do so. As a result, the ratio of personnel
cost to office-space cost doesn't even change that much, and overpaying for
both is financially irresponsible.

------
phakding
These and some other trends are originated in Agile methodologies, are they
not? Software engineering is being taken over by pseudo scientific ideology is
what it is. Funny thing is, no proof/studies are needed to make sweeping
changes like these.

------
cddotdotslash
It's interesting to me how quickly this trend has evolved. 5-6 years ago,
every recruiting email and startup job posting I saw advertised open floor
plans as if they were a top benefit. Now, lots of enterprises have copied the
trend (expectedly since it's cheaper) and I'm getting recruiting messages from
startups on LinkedIn bragging about how their office has "lots of quiet space"
or "private offices."

~~~
denimnerd
my enterprise has gone full tilt. open offices, w/ hot desking and instead of
laptops its a thin client. so yeah when you need or want to work from home you
have to use the slow citrix client. fun..

------
enieslobby
I've read so many variants of this same article.

------
umichguy
Are there even "closed office" designs? I've never worked in one. I think I
might have been in a couple maybe once or twice over the course of last 5 to 6
yrs while visiting someone. Everybody in my office, right up to senior VPs sit
in open plan. I didn't even know the guy sitting next to me was one when I
joined before someone pointed it out.

I really can't compare.

~~~
jfim
They're uncommon nowadays, but Sun Microsystems [1] and Microsoft [2] had
them. Apparently Microsoft is replacing them with open office designs these
days though. FogCreek [3] is adamant about private offices.

[1] [https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Work-is-where-you-
ha...](https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Work-is-where-you-hang-your-
coat-Sun-leads-way-2654589.php) [2]
[https://officesnapshots.com/photos/22763/](https://officesnapshots.com/photos/22763/)
[3] [https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2008/12/29/the-new-fog-
creek-...](https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2008/12/29/the-new-fog-creek-
office/)

