
Ask HN: I'm not a rockstar coder. Do I have a place in SV? - ninja_to_be
I am an excellent coder. But I am not a rockstar&#x2F;ninja&#x2F;10x dev. I don&#x27;t consume code all the time. I don&#x27;t breathe out code all the time. I don&#x27;t have pet projects to show. I don&#x27;t have a project portfolio. I don&#x27;t contribute to open source projects. I like to explore, travel, run, hike, kayak and a bunch of other things whenever I am not at work.<p>I just completed my Masters degree in Computer Science. Before that I worked for 4 years dishing out high quality code as a software developer. I have been searching for jobs for the past two months.<p>Most companies ask for my project portfolio or my Github profile link. Though I submit links, they are nothing more than a deserted island. More often than not, companies reject my job applications saying something like: &quot;Unfortunately, your skill sets were not a match for this position&quot;, when their job description is an exact match for my skill set, the exact work that I have been doing for 4 years prior to my Masters.<p>What are the companies expectations when it comes to recruiting software engineers?
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trcollinson
SV has, literally, hundreds (maybe thousands) of companies searching for
thousands of engineers on any given day. How many companies have you applied
to? Frankly, you don't need to be a rockstar or a ninja or whatever today's
funny super title is. You have experience and an education, you'll get a job.

The reason I ask how many companies you have applied to is because finding a
good job is a numbers game. Often I see engineers who do something along the
lines of applying to a single company for the "perfect position for them",
waiting to hear from the company, and then feeling dejected when a rejection
comes and they have to find the next perfect position. I always say, apply to
25 jobs as quickly as possible. Then come back and tell me that they all
rejected you.

Good luck! It will work out soon enough!

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DaveWalk
Do you have a place in SV? Not with an attitude like that.

You are an excellent coder -- full stop. You don't have to hold yourself to
some kind of "rockstar" ideal to get a job. Or better said, you simply have to
convince the hiring managers of SV that you are what they are looking for.

On the flip side, there are plenty of non-"rockstar" companies that could use
your talents, I'm sure of it. Perhaps you need to adjust where you're looking
for work?

For my money this means working on your soft skills, especially if you're on
the job hunt. Network, talking to people (in person(!)), make yourself visible
to the hiring managers. Soft skills should start paying dividends immediately,
as opposed to cramming code into your Github profile to look like a "rockstar"
does.

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andersthue
I have a few employees, one is a rockstar programmer (programming an OS in his
spare time) and the others are not.

But this rockstar cannot talk to customers so one of the other devs dows that,
and he is a rockstar in that field.

Another dev delivers solid work every day, every hour and never miss a
deadline, he is a rockstar at being rock solid.

If I only had rockstar programmers I would never be able to get everything
done.

So even though you are not a rockstar hardcore dev, then be hardcore and
rockstar in whatever you are really good at!

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mindvirus
Edit your resume. Get your friends to help you, professors, post it here and
get hacker news to help (brave!), or even hire a professional service to do
it. Find a nice template online and use that. I've seen an astonishing number
of astonishingly bad resumes. If you are having trouble even getting a phone
screen, it says something about your applications (if you're having trouble in
phone screens or during on-sites it says something else).

Some common problems I've seen with resumes:

    
    
      - Grammar, spelling and formatting problems.
    
      - Breadth but not depth - people list a million technologies but don't mention a single thing they did with those technologies.
    
      - Overly long - some people have a six month stint somewhere and yet write two pages of what they did there, filled with technical buzzwords.
    
      - Too short - people worked somewhere for three years and yet only write a single bullet point.
    
      - Unexplained gaps, especially early on. Not necessarily fair, but this can be a red flag for people.
    

The other trap that I've seen people fall into (less fairly) are technological
traps:

    
    
      - Someone out of school that only knows one big name language like Java. People interpret this as someone who didn't do much outside of class.
    
      - Windows-centric developers in Silicon Valley. There's a lot of bias in SV against Windows developers, and someone with a list of Microsoft centric technologies risks coming off as someone who wants to be a Windows systems engineer in shops that mostly run off of Linux and Mac OS.
    

Finally, in the definitely not fair front is names. My Chinese and Indian
friends have reported that by putting a Western first name on the resume their
response rates more than doubled.

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caseybettle
I am so with you. In my case I found out that I started going unstable if I
tried to be all work all the time so - I stopped the insanity about 12 years
ago and capped work and related activity at 40 hrs/week.

I have held two jobs in my professional career of 16 years and yet if I was
out of a job tomorrow I likely could not get past this bizarre new interview
process.

This is in spite of my having launched and supported four significant software
products in platforms and languages that before that point I had never
touched. All this in two very not-sexy niche industries that required
specialized knowledge I did not have.

Did I mention that on a scale form 1-10 I realistically operate at about a 3?
Take heart, until this year I have never worked with anyone that was better
than I at this job. Of the two people that have the talent and evolving skills
to surpass me - I trained them so there is that :)

Oh - I am also likely too old now (45) to even GET the interview without
subterfuge.

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wwweston
> More often than not, companies reject my job applications saying something
> like: "Unfortunately, your skill sets were not a match for this position",
> when their job description is an exact match for my skill set

While it's hard not to, it's almost never a good idea to take a generic
rejection like this at face value. This is one of a number of things
prospective employers just say when they've decided to hire someone else,
usually designed to give as little insight as possible as to why they made the
decision they did (and along with it, as little exposure to liability).

And common hiring practices being what they are (possibly as bad as random
chance as far as getting people who are in fact good fits), it's likely enough
that they didn't really have much in the way of insight into your skills. And
may not really be clear on why they made the choices they did.

So, it may not be you.

That said, even as a fellow explorer/hiker/kayaker who likes to have other
things to do when I'm not at work... some well-selected personal projects are
probably a good idea to have. They may not need to be big ones, even small
ones that scratch a personal itch might help with employers who use a github
profile as a heuristic for engaged interest in the field. I'm thinking of a
little Python script I wrote about a year ago, its sole purpose was to list
unix permissions for each directory above the current one, something I
occasionally need to do when tracking down reasons why a webserver might deny
access to resources located within a directory. There was a period right after
I'd created it and put it up on github that I was getting recruiting interest
as a Python dev. But something related to your MS might even be a better idea.

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yellowapple
Honestly, SV is oversaturated and overrated. You're probably going to find far
more satisfaction elsewhere. Maybe you'll miss out on the startup scene,
depending on where you end up looking, but that's not really a bad thing.

If you're thinking about Silicon Valley because you're already near it, I'd
suggest taking a look at something in the Central Valley, like Sacramento.
Sac's dead-smack in the middle of California, so you have relatively-easy
access to the Bay Area, Tahoe, or what have you to satisfy your desires to
explore/travel/run/hike/kayak/etc. (in fact, the Sacramento and American
rivers - which intersect in Sacramento - are very popular for kayaking and
rafting).

Otherwise, focus on some medium-sized city that looks like it'll satisfy your
recreational needs relatively well; chances are, it'll have enough of a tech
scene to be able to find steady, meaningful work.

I happen to live near Reno, which is also on the cusp of a tech boom; big
industrial projects in the northern outskirts (including - and especially -
Tesla's Gigafactory, but also some incumbents like Amazon) will have steadily-
increasing tech needs, programming included. The casinos are relying more and
more on state-of-the-art technology, and as a result, a lot of casinos and
equipment manufacturers alike are gobbling up programmers and tech support in
order to fuel the growing demand. Plus, Nevada in general is very business-
friendly, thanks to a better-than-average tax and regulatory environment, and
Reno in particular is a short drive away from Tahoe, making it _really_ nice
for hikers/bikers/kayakers/runners/etc. I'd be surprised if we don't hit
critical mass over here pretty soon.

Basically: unless paying for a hyperinflated cost-of-living and clawing your
way through hordes of other prospective coders all swarming "The Valley" is
your kind of thing, it's rarely worthwhile to think about Silicon Valley
specifically when there are plenty of places that could actually use your
talents.

~~~
PancakeAH
Pretty much every city, that I've ever been to or lived in is "on the cusp" of
a tech boom. SF is actually in a tech boom. I understand the holds ups
especially with the housing prices, and what not. I think there are other
alternatives like San Diego, and Seattle that aren't quite as saturated but
still tech heavy. I'm not sure I would want to gamble with "This might be a
tech hub in the future"

~~~
yellowapple
In that case, yes, there are still plenty of alternatives to Silicon Valley.
You've already mentioned Seattle. Portland and Salt Lake City are two more
that I happen to know of. Sacramento's tech sector is also already booming
(particularly in the area's satellite towns, like Folsom and Elk Grove),
making it much less of a gamble than most other areas.

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skylark
If you're not getting to phone screens, your resume needs work. It really is
that simple.

Most developers I know don't maintain an active Github. They're not
"rockstars" or "ninjas" \- they work 8 hours/day, go home, and watch Netflix.

I find that the HN crowd is usually happy to provide resume feedback, you
should consider posting it.

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jseeff
Not sure if it works quite the same for programmers and obviously there are a
lot of factors involved, but i'd recommend making "smart applications" \- i.e.
getting an "in" prior to sending your application. I wrote something along
these lines in a LinkedIn post here:

[https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/shoe-in-booted-out-3-tips-
you...](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/shoe-in-booted-out-3-tips-your-job-
hunt-jeremy-seeff?trk=mp-author-card)

Let me know what you think...

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theresistor
Do you have a focus area within CS?

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CSDude
You can showcase your expertise on coding through HackerRank, or with sample
projects in little details. This helps to me.

~~~
ninja_to_be
I have started doing this now. However, isn't this something which eats into
the personal-time of a person? Why should software eat my world?

Assuming I do get a good job now, I would be writing code for them, which most
likely would be closed source. If I ever want to switch companies after a few
years, should I start writing such code samples again?

The thing which irks me most is when companies do not even bother to look at
my profile without open-source contributions.

~~~
rue
Is there something you _want_ to work on? A gps tracker for hiking, maybe?

Something simple that’s useful to you. Then stick it up on Github.

(Or maybe even better yet, find a project already doing something you want and
help.)

