

Sometimes it pays to pay your web designer - araneae
http://winonachiropractic.com/

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stevenbrianhall
I think this trend is disturbing. I've seen a few "revenge revisions" here
over the past few days, and though I understand the frustration of not getting
paid (I've been freelancing for 8+ years), this is not the way to deal with
the problem.

I'm a big fan of using a staging server that I'm in control of for changes to
sites. We'll agree on a scope for an individual project or revisions, then
I'll make the changes on my server and send you a link. If the changes are to
your liking and the scope has been met, I'll bill you. Upon receipt of
payment, I'll upload the changes to your live site, and we'll start again ad
infinitum.

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reneherse
Great advice; I'll definitely put it to use.

I've heard that when constructing fireplaces and chimneys, masons sometimes
install a plate of glass partway up the flu. When the final installment on the
work is paid, the mason drops a stone down the chimney to break the glass.
Otherwise it's a house full of smoke for the deadbeat client...

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rayval
I wonder what happens to the chimney sweep years later, the person that
clambers down the chimney through unexpected shards of glass sticking out on
the walls. Presumably they are aware of this as a possibility and take
precautions.

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reneherse
Most residential chimneys nowadays are too small for people to climb into.
Sweeping is done with a brush on a pole :)

Also, the glass pane would not have to be anchored deeply in the masonry, just
set in slightly, enough to support its own weight. Thus any breakage would
likely remove it entirely.

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asolove
Sigh. I feel for web designers who don't get paid, but this is not the
appropriate response. It puts you potentially in legal danger and loses you
both this customer and anyone they ever talk to.

If you failed to pay a contractor building you a house, they can take a lein
against the house or sue you, but it would be quite illegal for them to start
tearing the house down. Similarly, unless you have a written contract saying
that their website is merely a service you provide, defacing their property is
not putting you in a stronger position, morally or legally.

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PHPAdam
No in the UK, if you do not pay a building contractor, court gives builder
permission to "recover their goods" which is demolishing it.

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twymer
"Recovering your goods" in the sense of a website is to take it offline or
restore the original contents. I think filling the page with stuff like this
goes beyond recovery.

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PHPAdam
I guess, it was a reply to "but it would be quite illegal for them to start
tearing the house down".

Designer seems to have recovered his goods domain/hosting and used it for what
he wanted. To slag off the debtor.

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feverishaaron
I think this does more to tarnish the reputation of the web designer as an
immature, spiteful person, instead of being a true business person. The best
way to handle situations like these in my experiences is to take the site
offline and say it is due to nonpayment, and provide a means to contact you
discreetly. Then send the bill to a collections agency with a 33% markup to
cover the collections costs. Most clients are honest, eager to correct what is
most often a communication or clerical error.

I've experienced non-payment only a handful of times over 15+ years of
freelancing. Barring bankruptcy, I have ALWAYS been paid by using these two
tactics. If they go bankrupt, you will be just another creditor, and a low
priority one at that, since there are no physical assets involved.

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PonyGumbo
What's the minimum amount that a collections agency will go after?

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dalore
Chiropractors aren't doctors. That's tarnishing the good name of doctors.

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BoppreH
"Get bent", "This website is not yours anymore", "Deal with it"...

Frankly, I think a little "this website is offline because they didn't pay
their bills" would be enough, given the web designer is being honest about the
whole situation.

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joelackner
this is what i do, a simple rename of the index with a contact message.

although, the "get bent" is awesome.

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bdclimber14
I'd like to build a service where unpaid web developers can point DNS or
redirect to, that on every visit to the unpaid website, would send an email to
the owner explaining that someone visited the website, but only saw text
explaining that they were a bad debtor.

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smoyer
Harsh! ... but I love the humor in it and I actually think it's fair. Assuming
everything in the article is true, it's not even slander/libel.

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PonyGumbo
Weirdly enough, I have a chiropractor client who owes me for hosting, and has
been extremely rude about it. I have to resist the urge to redirect his domain
to ChiroBase.

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bdclimber14
I think the main intent of this isn't to simply seek revenge, but to hopefully
pressure the chiropractic office into paying. I could be wrong, but that's
what my intent would be.

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rhizome
Well yes, except that it is already revenge, and will presumably remain so
until the developer gets paid.

...if in fact this whole thing isn't a hoax.

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crikli
The situation is one of the designer's own creation.

If the client never paid anything up front, that's just bad business practice.
If the designer delivered and launched the site without having yet collected a
dime, that's more bad practice. And if the designer continued to host the site
while never getting paid, that's just stupidity.

Rather than being controlled by his emotions, this designer would have been a
lot better off kicking those pesky feelings out of the building and viewing
the situation as a learning experience, then creating business practices as a
result.

For example, adopt a policy of getting 50% down at project start with the
other 50% due within 30 days of site launch. If a client starts dragging their
feet on payment, remind them of the clause in the contract where the penalties
for non-payment were outlined. You did get a signed contract, right?

Sometimes clients don't want to pay and unfortunately nobody starts out in
business with great judgment about who is and isn't going to pay. That
judgment comes from experience, which is unfortunately built through
exercising bad judgment.

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electrichead
I'm not sure that's the way to respond. Wouldn't it scare away any potential
future clients? We don't know the whole story, maybe the designer was asking
for too much, or changed the price at the end. At any rate, it doesn't matter
now, but future clients might hesitate if they knew the designer did this in
the past.

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jayroh
I've contemplated this measure a few times but the fear of legal repercussions
is a little too overwhelming to go through with it.

At the same time - I feel sympathy for this designer and don't blame them. One
overwhelming gesture of disrespect (devaluing ones work and not paying)
sometimes deserves another.

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akozlik
This is why you set up milestones to get paid instead of waiting for your
complete payment at the end. Develop on a test server and then after the final
payment, move to the production server. This is a highly inappropriate
response to a problem, and I would never work with this designer because of
it.

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sportsTAKES
To the designer, that is definitely not the way to go about your business. You
are begging for trouble and doing more harm to yourself than the guy that is
stiffing you on payment -

That said, after a quick double-take, I have to admit I laughed when I looked
at the site.

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taylorbuley
At the end of the day, perhaps the developer can at least use the website to
show the power of SEO.

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juddlyon
Sort of classless, but funny. Someone needs to aggregate these on a site a la
404 page galleries.

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mambodog
If I was in this situation I would just erase/kill the site, as the web
developer is clearly in the position to do so, and most clients wouldn't have
the know-how to do anything about it. Some of us try to maintain a little bit
of class.

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joshfinnie
Please, don't do this... If you are a webdesigner, just take down the site or
put up a note saying "This customer did not pay their bill." This is never the
right way to solve your issues.

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twymer
It's the "nice way" to go by replacing your stuff with the original design
when you decide you're really not going to be getting paid. Can see just
removing the page entirely, kind of. However, I don't think it's good for
either side of the table if you do something like this.

If you take away what they gave or took down the site entirely you would be
justified and perhaps quickly pay. Doing something classless like this is just
going to make the client bitter and perhaps damage your personal reputation.

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hkuo
The worst part is that the internet hive-mind may take hold and turn this
chiropractor's life into hell for a little while. We're only getting one side
of the story, and we can't be so quick to take sides without knowing a larger
story. For all we know, the designer was lazy, late, charged unfair overtime,
anything. But we can't jump to that conclusion either.

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rickdangerous1
This web designer is reflecting badly on him/herself and the webdesigner
industry as a whole. The webdesign industry doesn't need a reputation for
vengefulness and immaturity. In business there are norms for how to deal with
non payment. If freelance web designers want to be seen as 'real' business
people then.......

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bugsy
Since they have never paid for the site, copyright and ownership of the site
remain with the developer.

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rhizome
This is as fine an example of burning a bridge as I've ever seen.

~~~
dalore
I agree, that chiropractor certainly burnt the bridge to use that web guy
again.

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eftpotrm
As has the web guy for me too.

Now, I'm not ever going to need his services; I can handle the tech stuff just
fine myself thanks and I know plenty of graphic designers. I also tend to pay
bills when I receive them :-)

But there's no way I'd take a hosted service from someone who's pulled this
stunt in the past. Let's say we have a small disagreement - happens in
business, doesn't necessarily mean either of us is a crook. But how do I know
he won't fly off the handle and do this to me too? That's not a liability I
want to think about.

 _Our web designer has a childish sense of humor_

Indeed, and that's why I won't take his services.

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rrrhys
It is inappropriate, and I'd never do it, but it never would have happened if
the chiropractor paid their bills.

I can't imagine the particular designer will hurt for doing it - its not like
his contact details are stamped on it.

If he does great work and it's what I need I'd use him, since I make a habit
of paying my bills.

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rhizome
_If he does great work and it's what I need I'd use him_

To be sure, the site design as displayed is only average. Sure, he may do
average work very well, but I'm not sure this is the best way to advertise
that.

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klbarry
It's also been indexed to the top of the term "winona chiropractic" (probably
not hard to do, but sucks for the chiropracter:
[http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8...](http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=winona+chiropractic))

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jay_kyburz
I wouldn't pay for that design either. The reason you don't pay up front is to
ensure you are delivered a quality product.

