

Ask HN: How much can you make from ad networks like Deck, Carbon, Fusion, etc? - zachwaugh

I'm working on a web and mobile app that would fit nicely with the type of sites they're typically on, and those networks are the only kind of ads I don't really mind. Does anyone have a ballpark on what you make serving those ads on your site/app?
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kposehn
It really depends on what you're doing.

The disadvantage with platforms like decktrade is you have a different set of
rules from traditional CPC networks like AdMob. As it is a direct exchange,
you're typically dealing with fill rates that can vary wildly and a CPC/eCPM
that fluctuates.

That isn't to say you shouldn't use them - I actually prefer to use our own
internal ads instead of AdMob and others, with DeckTrade being higher on our
own priority list. Use AdWhirl or another mediator to set up your serving list
and then your own house ads to make sure you have a max fill rate.

Now, as for ballpark figures I have to say it rather depends. Do you know what
your average CTR is on ads you're testing in your apps/sites? If you need, set
your estimate at about .08% to 1% CTR; conversely, average earned CPC depends
on platform. I'd give it anywhere from $0.03 to $0.05. With that you'de be
averaging somewhere from $0.24 to $0.5 eCPM.

As an example of what we get, for our ads on AdMob we have a $0.43 eCPM form
our highest impression sites which have a CTR of 0.71%. DeckTrade skews a bit
higher at $0.74 and 0.94% respectively. Internal ads we run way outperform all
of them however, but our fill rate for those is much less.

Before you begin estimating however, you need to look at your apps/sites and
see how related any ads may be. Remember to categorize well and look into how
you can maximize the relevance of ads to your own apps. If you have a game,
you know people are often playing for a reason - figure out what works and
you'll earn more from that.

Ping me @kzorz or something if you want to talk further. We're doing a lot
with mobile ads and I'd be happy help anyone out here on YCHN.

<plug class="shameless">We also have an alpha of our internal ad network that
we are looking for testers for</plug>

~~~
zachwaugh
Thanks for the info. I think you may be thinking of the wrong Deck though. I
was referring to <http://decknetwork.net/>, which is a network that only shows
only a single ad per site with a limited number of advertisers and publishers.
For example, on Daring Fireball (<http://daringfireball.net/>). Fusion
(<http://fusionads.net/>) does the same thing. I'm not sure how much that
changes the numbers, but I believe it's a bit different from the typical ad
network.

~~~
kposehn
Ahh, ok.

Hmm, interesting model from those guys. Problem with that is, as il said, ads
that make money are typically not ads that you like.

Now, to differentiate from the mobile side, there are reams of networks you
can use. The whole 1-ad thing is not actually that effective imho, as you have
1 single source of revenue. You have no points of critical comparison to
determine what is working.

The key is response vs. relevance. If you can have several ads on page that
promote products and services that are relevant, then you have the right mix.
No one says you need to stick with one ad or that you need to cram every
single banner possible in your page. Go with a good balance, and start as far
on the relevance side as possible. Inch your way over to response and watch
your stats: if you see your pageviews start to inch down because you added
that other banner spot or text link group, take it out. Test, test, test and
retest - that is the key.

One good avenue to providing relevant ads is simply by making an account on
Commission Junction and searching for relevant products. If you have a site
about IT, apply to every IT software affiliate program and software sales
company out there. Set up an OpenX ad server and start to optimize. Look for
who gets the response and conversions from users.

The best part about affiliate ads on your site that you control is it keeps
you honest. Unrelated irrelevant junk will either alienate people or not
convert, so you are incentivized to stick with what adds value.

Most important of all of this - and it is easy to forget - is this: as a
site/app owner, YOU control the impressions. That control is important, so
don't give it away to just one single advertiser network. Make them work for
your business, just like you do for your own customers.

~~~
zachwaugh
For the mobile, I would most likely want to use the same network for
consistency. And the main reason I want to use one of these networks is
because the ads are high quality and relevant. I'm less worried about
maximizing revenue, and more concerned with the ads being helpful and
unobtrusive.

Thanks again for the tips. I haven't done much with advertising, so it's
definitely helpful to hear.

~~~
kposehn
Glad I can help. I understand your desire with helpful/unobtrusive ads, but I
would just caution you to not leave money on the table. Do some testing to
find that balance - let the users help you decide :)

Best of luck!

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il
Here's the thing: The kinds of ads you don't mind are the same kinds of ads
that perform the worst for advertisers. The CPMs will probably reflect this.

~~~
zachwaugh
I don't know how they perform, but I assume their successful because companies
keep advertising there. I don't mind these particular ads because they're high
quality, not obnoxious, and relevant to me. I never click through ads on most
sites, but I actually do click through these because I'm interested in the
product. It's ideal advertising to me.

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michaeldhopkins
You can approximate using this page: <http://decknetwork.net/>

28 advertisers * $8300 = $232,400. That figure divided by 100,873,827
impressions is $.002 / impression or $2.30 per thousand impressions. Assume
The Deck pays out 70% and you're looking at $1.60 CPM.

~~~
zachwaugh
That's probably a good rough estimate. I did some of my own back of the
envelope calculations along those lines and figured out a site like Daring
Fireball is probably making around $5,700/month from the Deck, which is less
than I would have thought. I'd love to get some first-hand info though.

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kposehn
One other comment: mobile affiliate networks are still in their infancy and
many are just shady fly-by-night companies. In general, do not trust them.

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flignats
how many visitors users do you have/expect to have

