
Commodore Back in Germany - Audiophilip
https://icomp.de/shop-icomp/en/33/items/commodore-back-in-germany.html
======
gavanwoolery
My dream is to buy up the Commodore / Amiga IP and make a "true" successor (as
I have stated in the past several times!).

People are growing increasingly jaded with OSX and Windows, both of which lack
a passionate visionary and are becoming increasingly bloated and making weird
UX choices.

I do not mean making a retro device, or even playing off of some modern
variant of AmigaOS, I mean rethinking/resurrecting the brand the same way Jobs
did when he returned to Apple.

It would not necessarily mean completely reinventing hardware or software.
Apple's switch to a BSD-based OS and Intel chips was an example of how you can
build a great computer on top of existing hardware and software.

The Mac has no "real" competitors - that is, companies which manufacture both
their own hardware and software to produce desktops (other than consoles,
which are not really desktop replacements).

Anyhow, it is obviously no small undertaking, but I refuse to believe there
should only be two mainstream choices out there for desktops, or that the
space for innovation is dead (more so on the software/coding/UX side).

~~~
larrydag
Have you thought through the first principles? What is it about the
Commodore/AmigaOS brand that is worth resurrecting? Is it hardware? Is it
software? Will this redesign be a competitive advantage to current OSes? Does
the world need another OS?

I'm not raining on your parade. I'm just trying to help in the thought
process. Don't let anyone get in the way of your dreams.

~~~
Clubber
>What is it about the Commodore/AmigaOS brand that is worth resurrecting?

Nostalgia, and you can't really resurrect nostalgia. I loved my Commodores
when I was growing up, but times have changed. The BBS software that I ran and
modded are long gone, the friends I would post with are long gone, the doors
would be fun for about 5 minutes.

It was great, but it's like meeting a great childhood friend that you haven't
seen in 20 years. Most of the time, it's fun to reminisce, but there's nothing
new there. We've both changed.

~~~
obarthel
I agree that there is nostalgia involved, but it is only part of the picture.

From a software developer's point of view the Amiga is worth resurrecting
because the operating system design represents a promise that you can get
great power and flexibility out of modest means, by keeping complexity at bay.

It wasn't always so rosy, but you could pack quite a punch by developing
products for the Amiga. The system gave you a lot of leverage, which architect
Carl Sassenrath rightly referred to as "empowering the user". The development
environment (a 'C' compiler, a debugger and a decent text editor would see you
through) and the operating system documentation were solid enough. You could
comfortably hold the entire design of the system and its APIs in your head.
That kind of knowledge is rare these days, given how complex our platforms of
choice have become.

I have been an Amiga software developer for more than three decades now,
through the good times and the less good times (it used to be a hobby, became
a business, now it's a hobby again). It does give you perspective, and not
everything that came around in these last three decades measured up so well:
how much of the power of the hardware platform ends up in the hands of the
user?

The (for lack of a better word) "thin" Amiga operating system layer allowed
you to squeeze a maximum of performance out of the hardware. I recall that
during the late 1990'ies Amiga networking software, tested against a HP-UX
based logic analyzer's networking performance in the lab, came out on top.

------
carsongross
I hope that we've gotten to the end of the race to the bottom in desktop
computers and that the market is ready for innovative, high quality hardware.
With Moore's Law sputtering and becoming less and less relevant for day-to-day
computing, build quality can now become a competitive differentiator.

~~~
dijit
ugh god, please!

I've been looking for something as Linux/Unix friendly and sturdy as an IBM
thinkpad for what feels like an age now.

From what I can tell only the Macbook is of the same class, even business line
notebooks have horrible keyboards, screens and touchpads. (in the best case
you pick any 2 of those to be good.)

~~~
ekianjo
I highly prefer older thinkpads' keyboards to the Macbook ones. And i'm not
just talking about the fingertip pressure quality, but the layout as well.

~~~
sedachv
Macbook chiclet keyboards are the worst possible keyboard in terms of key
placement and shape (flat-top keys) in terms of typing speed and accuracy.
There is a good paper about this in the first edition of _Handbook of Human-
Computer Interaction_ (copy is at home right now, will update with a better
reference later). Even the "skateramp" shape of classic Thinkpad keyboards is
not as good for speed and accuracy as the bowl-shaped keys of older keyboards
and typewriters. The "skateramp" shape was a cost-cutting technique to enable
keys to be cheaply labeled (bowl-shaped keys need to have the labels molded in
in a two-step process: [https://deskthority.net/wiki/Double-
shot_molding](https://deskthority.net/wiki/Double-shot_molding)).

~~~
sedachv
Here is the citation: _Handbook of Human-Computer Interaction_ , Martin
Helander, ed., 1990. Chapter 21, Section 4, "Key Size and Shape" on p. 483

------
retro64
I think something the generation today is missing is in the 80’s we had a
belief that we were truly on the cutting edge of the Star Trek future. But PCs
were not yet really for the masses (despite what Mr. Tramiel claimed), but
totally for the bedroom geek. You had to work hard to generate the smallest
return, and trying to find information was difficult at best. There was
CompuServe and Q-Link if you could afford it, but much of what you learned you
learned by hacking on your own.

Yes, yes, snow uphill and all that, but my point is all of that energy was
driven by a belief that you were just beginning to tap into real power,
cracking open a portal. A glimpse of the future was in there, and the future
was _awesome_.

Uh huh. Today I cannot believe how dystopian things have become. This is
totally _not_ the future envisioned back in the day. I’m not discounting all
advances, but I am thinking about the state of the average home PC today. It
is not filled with hopefully bliss, but instead it has become a nightmare of
“how do I avoid Big Brother's claws today, this week, next month?” This of
course was always the Sci-Fi possibility, but I personally never dreamed that
this would be the norm.

IMHO, today’s computer environment destroys the inner geek. Going retro brings
it back. Maybe something good and modern will eventually blossom.

------
acomjean
I remember there being a joystick released a few years back that had a full
Commodore 64 in it. You could mod it with a keyboard and drive
supposedly...... Found it [1]

I'm wondering if the case is enough to bring people back. There is something
about a these retro machines that you have full control over that is
appealing. Maybe I'm just gettin nostalgic.

[1] [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/C64_Direct-to-
TV](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/C64_Direct-to-TV)

~~~
larrydag
Developed by Jeri Ellsworth
([https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeri_Ellsworth](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeri_Ellsworth)).
She built it all from scratch by re-engineering the C64 board. Very
fascinating to hear about her story of the process. She's also working on VR
currently.

------
LarryMade2
One of the die-hard manufacturers of Commodore/Amiga stuff. Individual
computers, they were part of the C-One project and a few others. One of the
more notable current devices is the Chameleon 64 a turbo 64 clone in a
cartridge case (you can use is stand alone or plug it into a C64 to get the
speed boost while enjoying better C64 compatibility. Also retro Replay and the
RRNet (one of the many ethernet carts for the C64).

They sometimes make it out to AmiWest in Sacramento, CA, (Oct 6th-9th
[http://www.amiwest.net/](http://www.amiwest.net/) ) from the site it doesn't
look like they will be out this year.

------
bsharitt
Neat to see a Commodore comeback, that's actually doing the retro C64 thing
and not just slapping Commodore logos on new computers or phones. I supposed
the Amiga rights are too much of a mess to hope for much movement there.

~~~
vidarh
The rights to the Amiga name are too much of a mess.

But the AmigaOS name and rights are in the hands of Hyperion, who keeps
developing AmigaOS 4.x, and new hardware is regularly (well, sort of - there's
a new "high end" box in the works) released under the AmigaOne name by A-Eon,
and supports running AmigaOS, so the situation there isn't that bad
(incidentally, Individual Computers, which this article is about also produces
a number of accelerators etc. for classic Amiga's).

~~~
ekianjo
Didn't Hyperion file bankruptcy a couple of years back ?

~~~
vidarh
No, someone filed a bankruptcy claim against them, and an administrator was
appointed. According to Hyperion this happened because of an administrative
error (they're a tiny company, consisting of part time staff and contractors
who may or may not be paid for all of the work, and their registered address
is with a service company; supposedly the service company had failed to pass
on a summons for the bankruptcy court). The bankruptcy was reversed once
Hyperion was able to appeal and either present their documentation or pay
whichever creditor it was that filed the claim - I'm not sure which. In any
case it was resolved.

But it's not exactly a large, well funded company.

------
zbik
tl;dr Individual Computers launches a new plastic case to house either an
original C64 mainboard, or the "C64 Reloaded" board released by hardware
designer Jens Schönfeld last year.

[http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/C64_reloaded](http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/C64_reloaded)

Sadly the C64R is currently out of stock.

[https://icomp.de/shop-
icomp/en/shop/product/c64-reloaded.htm...](https://icomp.de/shop-
icomp/en/shop/product/c64-reloaded.html)

~~~
gkya
Has this got any practical value for everyday desktop computing or is it a
retrocomputing thing?

~~~
colomon
Strictly retrocomputing. I loved my C64 back in the day, but it is completely
outclassed by pretty much every modern computing platform no matter how
humble.

------
branchless
I'm just reading "Commodore: a company on the edge" and the claims in this vs
the received wisdom on Apple are very interesting.

[https://www.amazon.com/Commodore-Company-Edge-Brian-
Bagnall/...](https://www.amazon.com/Commodore-Company-Edge-Brian-
Bagnall/dp/0973864966)

Chuck Peddle didn't have the same opinions about Apple II nor Wozniak. It's a
very interesting book.

ps I also have a working commodore amiga 500!

~~~
rasz_pl
my favorite apple commodore exchange summing up the whole deal happened during
computer history museums Commodore 64 25th anniversary panel
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBvbsPNBIyk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBvbsPNBIyk).
paraphrasing

Tramiel: Unlike Apple I made computers for the lowest price possible enabling
millions to own one.

Wozniak: Unlike you Apple sold their computers at the price point that allowed
them to not go bankrupt.

~~~
branchless
Thanks, it's great to see Tramiel in the flesh, he is as I imagined him from
the book.

I haven't watch all this yet but will do so. It never occurred to me to look
this up on youtube as they seem from another age, but of course it's _very_
recent history. Amazing.

------
panglott
The company has NOS SID chips, but sold out of their 2015 C64 Reloaded
motherboards (which have S-Video out and other useful modifications).

~~~
dktbs
yeah, the fact that they have SID chips for sale was surprising to me. And
they are 8580s!

------
placebo
Interesting to note the long post-Commodore history of the brand name. The
Wikipedia entry does not even mention Polabe Holding NV from which the rights
were licensed. Anyway, brings back some fond memories - I was a VIC20 kid...

------
hellofunk
This is an extraordinary achievement for the industry and is something all of
us should be proud of. It's the reason I became a developer and now I know I
made the right decision. What fantastic news!

------
paublyrne
Please pretty please make an Amiga 1200, and also include Sensible World of
Soccer in the box.

~~~
jug
There's a Kickstarter campaign for the A1200 case, with that one being
Raspberry Pi compatible with ports and all. So if an emulator can run Sensible
Soccer, so should that one. Read more here:
[https://www.a1200.net/](https://www.a1200.net/)

Personally I would kind of like if there was an Amiga case that fit the mini
ITX form factor and a graphics card. Not sure if the constraints for that
would work out, but it would be awesome to have a full fledged gaming PC in an
Amiga case.

~~~
ekianjo
> Personally I would kind of like if there was an Amiga case that fit the mini
> ITX form factor and a graphics card. Not sure if the constraints for that
> would work out, but it would be awesome to have a full fledged gaming PC in
> an Amiga case.

It should be possible the DIY-way, but the biggest problem is going to be air
flow to cool things down. The Amiga had passive cooling and you'd need a lot
more openings in the case to handle the heat generated by a modern motherboard
and GPU card.

------
transfire
It would be interesting to see a modernized C64 -- a C64g where "g" means
gigabyte, with specs something like:

* 1 GHZ 6510 compatible processor * 8+ GB RAM

That alone would be interesting, but lets keep going.

* Beefed up SID with 16 bit sound * Beefed up VIC supporting 32 bit RGBA color * Add 3D graphics coprocessor

Probably not really feasible, but I find myself often wondering what it might
be like to have the simplicity of a C64 back, but with present day specs.

~~~
ataylor284_
An upgrade card with a 20Mhz 65816 and 16MB RAM was actually sold as a
product:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperCPU](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperCPU),
but it didn't really make anyone happy. The C64 purists stuck with the 6510
and those looking for more power just switched to modern architectures.

------
asimuvPR
This is simply amazing. Looking forward to purchasing a new c64 whenever
available.

------
Luc
Might they be using the same moulds as the people who did this kickstarter for
new 64C cases?

[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1670214687/original-
com...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1670214687/original-
commodore-64c-computer-housing-in-new-coo/posts/1288978)

There's still a couple on eBay.

~~~
AlbertoGP
Yes, they bought those molds and will use them for the new cases:

[https://shop.return-magazin.de/newsletter/index.html](https://shop.return-
magazin.de/newsletter/index.html) "The original molds from the 2015
kickstarter project are acquired by individual computers and will be used to
produce a new batch of C64C cases in four super retro classic colors."

------
akerro
Does any one know if they're going to sell the same keyboards as they used to?

I'm not sure if that means [1] full keyboards or just boxes

[1][https://shop.return-magazin.de/newsletter/index.html](https://shop.return-
magazin.de/newsletter/index.html)

~~~
soylentcola
Do you mean just the keyboard or the whole computer that was in the same
chassis as the keyboard?

Honest question because I bet there would be at least some market for a new
Commodore keyboard made to the same spec but just a USB keyboard that you
could use for nostalgia, aesthetics, or for a more accurate emulation
experience.

~~~
akerro
I mean just keyboard. I would love to have one which would be compatible with
PC.

------
tomcam
Sadly the site of the company that owns the Commodore name is full of 404
pages, notably the one linked to from the "Hardware" tab.
[http://www.commodorecorp.com](http://www.commodorecorp.com)

------
mgalka
Had so much fun with these as a kid, I'd love to play around with one for a
little while. Though hard to imagine why anyone would want to use one on a
regular basis.

------
SonicSoul
my first computer! I sold one back in Poland for $100 when I left for US in
'90\. I've spent many all nighters playing Boulder Dash and tinkering with
music production while connected to a shitty single speaker radio. I hope
Datasette comes back too!
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_Datasette](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_Datasette)

~~~
jharger
Boulder Dash was awesome! I had Boulder Dash Construction Kit which I used to
make many levels that none of my friends ever wanted to play (They wanted to
play NES... so sad)

~~~
SonicSoul
nice! any screenshots of your designs?

~~~
jharger
Unfortunately no :( I don't really have much of anything that I did from back
then... and wouldn't have known how to take a screenshot on a C64 anyway.

~~~
DerekL
The only way to get a screen shot was to use a camera or a VCR.

------
squozzer
It would be fun to set up another c64. Not a fan of the 1541 drive though, any
suggestions for a substitute?

~~~
adam12
I just found this on google.

[http://store.go4retro.com/uiec-sd/](http://store.go4retro.com/uiec-sd/)

~~~
jerf
There's something that tickles me about hooking up an SD card, a GigE network
connection, a modern monitor, and modern USB keyboards and such... to a
literal Commodore 64 to function as the CPU. I mean, "component mismatch" like
the modern mismatch between RAM and CPU is one thing, and then there's "every
peripheral in the system is orders of magnitude more powerful than my CPU".

(Yes, I am aware of how powerful the 1541 was.)

------
davidjhall
Would love to see an Atari 8bit remake

