
Yogaglo Patent Issued - Jgrubb
https://yogainternational.com/article/view/yogaglo-patent-issued
======
kitsune_
From YogaGlo's blog [1]:

"Our patent application clearly outlines that the “look and feel” of a YogaGlo
online streaming class is comprised of the following elements that all must be
present in conjunction with one another: position of camera, position of the
teacher, position of the mats relative to the camera and the teacher, an open
corridor down the middle, the teacher must be facing the camera, the students
must be facing the teacher, etc. We are not seeking to patent a camera angle.
We are not seeking to patent the placement of a teacher in a room (online,
offline, in your private studio, in your public studio). We are seeking to
patent this one very particular combination of elements for a single online
class."

This is so ridiculous.

[1] [http://www.yogaglo.com/blog/2013/09/yogaglo-response-to-
toda...](http://www.yogaglo.com/blog/2013/09/yogaglo-response-to-todays-news/)

~~~
a3n
"an open corridor down the middle"

So the next innovation will be an open corridor on an oblique line from a back
corner to the instructor. And then another with an open corridor from the back
middle to the instructor at a front corner.

Oh, the innovations to come! I feel like I'm living in the _future_!

------
kd5bjo
Seems like they pursued the wrong kind of IP protection; the patent office
should have denied the application and referred them to
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_dress](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_dress)
.

~~~
toomuchtodo
What's the process to ask the patent office to reexam this patent?

~~~
t0dd
[http://www.uspto.gov/patents/stats/Reexamination_Information...](http://www.uspto.gov/patents/stats/Reexamination_Information.jsp)

"Filing Compliant Reexamination Requests"

[http://www.uspto.gov/patents/Best_Practices_and_FAQs_for_fil...](http://www.uspto.gov/patents/Best_Practices_and_FAQs_for_filing_reexaminations_5_10_10.pdf)

~~~
toomuchtodo
Thanks, I'll file the request Monday.

~~~
t0dd
No problem. I am as well. I believe you need to include prior art with the re-
examination request. I will be submitting yoga videos, at least from the 90s,
such as
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUgtMaAZzW0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUgtMaAZzW0))
that certainly raise questions whether the patent is valid or not.

~~~
toomuchtodo
I'm being told a patent reexamination fee is $6000:
[http://patents.stackexchange.com/questions/5587/method-to-
re...](http://patents.stackexchange.com/questions/5587/method-to-request-
reexamination-of-patent-for-instructional-video?noredirect=1#comment3240_5587)

Is this accurate?

------
avisk
This clearly shows Yogaglo and the people there did not gain anything by
practicing the Yoga they are preaching. They don't have any idea of what Yoga
stands for. If Patanjali had patented his Yoga sutras , we may not even be
aware about this great practice.

~~~
loceng
It just shows us that it's business-minded people in control, who are running,
YogaGlo.

~~~
meddlepal
I will bite, what's so bad about business-minded people running a business?

~~~
lukifer
Who would you rather buy shoes from: someone who obsesses over making great
shoes, or someone who obsesses over making money by any means possible, and
has decided that shoes are the optimal means to that end?

At best, pure business type are a necessary evil, doing the dirty work that
enables people to make a living by offering genuine value. But at worst, they
are soulless parasites leeching out every ounce of passion and creativity for
a cold, hard buck.

"People don't buy what you do, they buy why you do it."
[http://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_how_great_leaders_inspi...](http://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_how_great_leaders_inspire_action.html)

------
binarymax
_YogaGlo 's own website predates its original filing on Aug. 27, 2010_

I was filmed in a Yoga class in 2007 using this technique. I don't have access
to the video and am no longer in contact with the instructor, but I remember
it happening and then saw the footage with my own eyes. I hope she reads this
article and sends in the video as prior art!

~~~
eaxbin
There's an overwhelming chance that she won't, I think you should try to
contact her!

------
paulgb
I'm glad to see this. It's hard to explain to non-techies just how pathetic
the patent system has become with regards to Apple v. Samsung and WiFi patent
trolls, but everyone can see how absurd this patent is.

~~~
dl_terp
If anyone actually has to pay out to YogaGlo, they could just follow the
example of a certain tech company and pay in nickels...

~~~
SilkRoadie
If this is in reference to Samsung... Most "Internet Facts" are not facts.
Apple didn't get paid in nickels.

~~~
blueblob
reference to ThePirateBay?

[http://www.daniweb.com/hardware-and-
software/news/220529/pir...](http://www.daniweb.com/hardware-and-
software/news/220529/pirate-bay-organises-distributed-donation-of-dollars-
attack)

------
desireco42
If this is not clear example why patents in current form are not working, I
don't know what it is. This isn't about how dumb this patent is, it is about
how broken the whole sistem is designed.

------
t0dd
The position of a camera and people in a room is patentable now! What next.
Where does this obscene urge come from to file absurd, obnoxious, predatory
patents that do absolutely nothing except stifle innovation? Why can't
businesses compete on their own merits and the value they provide the world? I
wonder if they realize the harm they're causing--not to mention what they're
doing completely violates yogic principles. They should retract the patent and
issue an apology to the entire Yoga community. When will enough be enough and
our patent system finally reformed to prevent this frivolous, grotesque, and
utterly wasteful behavior?

~~~
SoftwareMaven
It comes from the jackpots (or the continual revenue stream) that such
predatory patents provide.

------
dl_terp
I'm no patent expert, so why did we go from a "first to use" system to a
"first to file" system? It seems that if we were still the former, this
wouldn't be an issue, correct? There were obviously people before YogaGlo
using this camera angle, otherwise they wouldn't have gotten the cease and
desist. Now businesses (focusing on legal instead of product, which is one of
many big misses with our current patent system) can and often must file
patents to ensure someone doesn't come in after them and patent something
they've been using for years.

~~~
WildUtah
"First to file" refers to a different technical timing issue.

It has always been the case that public use or description of an idea was
supposed to make it impossible to get a patent.

That's a dead letter today. The patent office will eventually approve just
about anything if you're persistent enough and use a thesaurus to make your
claims seem a little different.

For instance, an East Texas jury just awarded a $2 million dollar verdict
against NewEgg for using public key encryption in SSL. The patent was applied
for in 1989. Whit Diffie, of course, invented and published public key
encryption in 1976 and testified at the trial. The judge told the jury that
the Patent Office was entitled to the presumption of validity over Mr. Diffie.

~~~
sonoffett
As an interesting aside, it appears GCHQ had public key encryption almost a
decade earlier (although not published until recently, of course).

~~~
WildUtah
Some of the ideas involved were being used by NSA and GCHQ secretly before
Diffie published.

Experts including Diffie who have discussed it with the mathematicians in
question conclude that nobody else had a full working system for it before
Diffie published.

------
bryans
Unless the judges presiding over the inevitable lawsuits are complete fools, I
don't see this patent ever holding up. The position of a camera inside a room
is neither an invention nor patentable, and attaching a new word to an old
(and pervasive) methodology does not magically constitute novelty -- in this
case, appending "yoga" to "streaming video and audio over the internet."

~~~
krstck
_Unless the judges presiding over the inevitable lawsuits are complete fools,
I don 't see this patent ever holding up._

Maybe not, but are the organizations that Yogaglo will file suit against able
to afford a defense? That's why this strikes me as particularly slimy.

~~~
toddwolf79
That's the problem, who has the money to argue this in court. You're looking
at 6 figures.

~~~
yoodenvranx
I don't know anything about the US law system so I would really like to
understand this: 6 figures? wtf? Why is this so expensive? Is this the cost of
the lawyers? Do you have to pay court taxes?

~~~
kintamanimatt
Also, America doesn't have a "loser pays" system, otherwise known as the
English Rule. Both parties are responsible for their own costs whether they
win or lose under the American Rule. This means that just the threat of a
lawsuit is an automatic expense, and winning in court also means losing, just
losing less severely. This is generally why parties are so keen to settle,
even if they believe they could win in court so as to limit their losses.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_rule_%28attorney%27s_f...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_rule_%28attorney%27s_fees%29)

~~~
jonasvp
It took a while for me to understand why the threat of a lawsuit is so
terrifying in the States. It seemed absurd for both parties to pay even if one
is clearly in the wrong. I still don't understand why people are defending
this system or only changing it piecemeal for certain cases
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_lawsuit_against_publ...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_lawsuit_against_public_participation)).

Here in Germany, losers pay and the cost for lawyers is calculated by the
amount the argument is about. This way, you can't bankrupt someone by winning
a minor argument in court using extremely expensive lawyers.

~~~
kintamanimatt
This is why software patents are such an evil. If you've been granted a
software patent it's fairly easy to shake down someone that's allegedly
infringing because it's cheaper to pay the amount demanded than it is to
litigate. For this very reason, a tactic used by some patent trolls is to go
after small companies that they know can afford the "license fee" but can't
afford to fight back in court. Lodsys are well-known for this.

Some companies with deep pockets are now fighting back at patent trolls to
make it as expensive for them to do business as possible, and possibly even
invalidating the patent in question. Regular ol' software companies obviously
can't afford this, as it comes with price tag in the millions.

------
coldpie
And so a whole bunch of money will be sent to lawyers without anything of
value being created in return. I'm becoming increasingly convinced that the
patent system creates more harm than it does good.

------
codeulike
-find-replace-paste-

how many more cases like this will we see before the authorities realise that
Big Yoga is abusing the patent system and stifling innovation that will
seriously damage the whole yoga industry

------
WildUtah
I wrote a comment on the op site. [0] Apparently Disqus holds posts like this
for moderation, though. Maybe because of the link.

It's good news, I guess. The more constituencies that are threatened by patent
abuse, the more likely the system will be reformed. Since we as computer
programmers are the top targets for this scam of a patent system, any allies
we get should encourage us.

And yoga practitioners are more influential in Congress than computer
programmers. Heck, illegal aliens and terrorists are more popular with
Congress than we are.

[0] This one:

 _Good News, everyone.

First the bad news, though. Even if this patent is invalid, it will cost
around a million dollars to fight a lawsuit against it. If YogaGlo sues you,
your best bet is to pay whatever they ask, unless you have a million dollars
laying around that you don't need. Validity or invalidity doesn't matter.

The good news is that there's a bill before Congress that can make things
better. Today, unjustly accused patent infringers have no way to get their
legal fees paid by their accusers even when they win. You just lose your
million dollars in fees. If Congressman Goodlatte's "Innovation Act" (H.R.
3309) becomes law, the accusers will have to pay your fees if you win. That
will put an end to most lawsuits based on invalid and frivolous patents.

The best thing of all is that you can do something about it! The Innovation
Act has passed the House of Representatives and President Obama has been
asking for reform legislation, but the fate of the bill in the Senate is in
question. Senator Leahy, the Senate Judiciary Committee chairman, has
introduced the Patent Transparency And Improvements Act (S. 1720) which has
some provisions from the Innovations Act. Unfortunately, the Leahy bill does
not include the loser-pays provision that would protect small business people
and yoga teachers.

Call Senator Leahy's office and ask him to put a loser-pays provision in S.
1720 like the one in Congressman Goodatte's H.R. 3309. Then call your two home
state senators and ask them to support a loser pays provision in S.1720. If
you're a Vermonter, Leahy is your senator, so mention that you're calling from
his home state. Constituent calls really matter. You will reach a smart,
professional aide in your senator's office who will take down your message and
your senator will hear about it. It only takes a couple minutes.

Contact information for your senator is here:

[http://www.senate.gov/general/..](http://www.senate.gov/general/..).

Senator Leahy's (D-VT) office number is (202) 224-4242._

~~~
jamesbritt
_Apparently Disqus holds posts like this for moderation, though. Maybe because
of the link._

The site owner can set how comments are moderated, if at all.

They may have opted for some degree of spam-checking, or they may have decided
that all posts need explicit approval.

Given the nature of your post I'm skeptical they will allow it, link or no
link. :(

~~~
toddwolf79
It got posted

------
dcaunt
There are videos on YouTube converted from 90s DVDs which show classes filmed
from the back of the room. This one from a rather famous yoga teacher, Pattabi
Jois
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUgtMaAZzW0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUgtMaAZzW0)

------
reustle
Here [1] is an instance where Yogaglo has sent a Cease And Desist regarding
camera placement.

[1] [http://theyogablog.com/yogaglo-patent-
bs/](http://theyogablog.com/yogaglo-patent-bs/)

------
moocowduckquack
Is it possible to sue the patent office itself for crass incompetence?

Here's the claims, and they are mental:

 _1\. A system for automatically producing a video representation of a yoga
class configured so a remote viewer enjoys the experience of being in a real
yoga class, the system comprising: a studio having a front area and a rear
area; an instructor position located in the front area and facing the rear
area; a line of sight corridor disposed between the rear area and the
instructor; a plurality of students at student positions, facing the
instructor position, distributed across the studio between the instructor
position and the image capturing device wherein the student positions do not
impinge upon the corridor; an image capturing device for capturing video
located in the rear area disposed to provide a participatory view from a
height of about three feet by capturing through the line of sight corridor, an
unobstructed video of the instructor in the instructor position including
images of the students disposed along the sides of the line of sight corridor;
and sound capture equipment to capture at least audio of the instructions
given by the instructor disposed in the instructor position to the students
disposed in the student positions._

 _2\. The system according to claim 1, further comprising remote control
systems whereby the image capture device pans and zooms._

 _3\. The system according to claim 1, further comprising means for recording
the video._

 _4\. The system according to claim 1, further comprising means for streaming
the video via the Internet._

 _5\. The system according to claim 1, further comprising means for adding
music to the audio._

 _6\. The system according to claim 1, wherein the instructor position
includes an instructor 's mat and each student position includes a student mat
with each student mat disposed normal to the instructor's mat._

 _7\. The system according to claim 1, wherein the corridor becomes wider near
the image capture device._

 _8\. A method for automatically producing a video representation of a yoga
class configured so a remote viewer enjoys the experience of being in a real
yoga class, comprising the steps of: providing a studio having a front area
and a rear area; placing an instructor position at the front area of the
studio, the instructor position disposed to face the rear area; locating an
image capturing device for capturing video in the rear area at a height of
about three feet to allow for a participatory view disposed to provide a
participatory view from a height of about three feet by capturing an image of
the instructor in the instructor position; laying out a line of sight corridor
between the image capturing device and the instructor; distributing a
plurality of student positions, facing the instructor position, across the
studio between the instructor position and the image capturing device wherein
the student positions are distributed so as not to impinge upon the corridor;
capturing at least audio of the instructions given by the instructor disposed
in the instructor position; and capturing a video of the instructor through
the line of sight corridor, which video includes images of the students
disposed along the sides of the line of sight corridor._

 _9\. The method according to claim 8, further comprising a step of remotely
controlling the image capture device._

 _10\. The method according to claim 8, further comprising the step of
recording the video._

 _11\. The method according to claim 8, further comprising the step of
streaming the video via the Internet._

 _12\. The method according to claim 8, further comprising the step of adding
music to the audio._

 _13\. The method according to claim 8, further comprising a step of placing
an instructor 's mat in the instructor position and a student mat in each
student position with each student mat disposed normal to the instructor's
mat._

 _14\. The method according to claim 8, further comprising a step of
increasing the width of the corridor near the image capture device._

link to patent - [http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-
Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=H...](http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-
Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=8,605,152.PN.&OS=PN/8,605,152&RS=PN/8,605,152)

~~~
josaka
The claim says images must be captured "from a height of about three feet."
Put your cameras at five feet or two feet and feel bad for these folks paying
tens of thousands of dollars to own "about three feet."

~~~
Coincoin
"I put my camera about 5 feet high, not 3" is something that will need to be
argued in court, which means you already lost.

~~~
btown
This is why loser-pays-legal-fees legislation is so crucial.

------
aluhut
I hope karma hits them back for this.

------
hrjet
This patent is ridiculous for sure.

But let's not bash Yogaglo; it could be a defensive patent for all we know. In
a land where ridiculous patent grants are the norm, businesses have an
incentive to file patents to protect themselves from patent trolls.

What deserves our ire is the patent system.

Edit: Thanks for the correction pizza234. The article was not accessible
(server HNed I guess). And I assumed that the patent was granted recently
enough that benefit of doubt can be given to Yogaglo.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
You don't need a patent to be defensive. You only need publication. You can
get that publication with an A document (published but not examined/granted)
if you wish, there are cheaper ways; write it down and have it notarised.

~~~
nitrogen
Is my understanding mistaken that the new patent laws in the US don't treat
unpublished findings as prior art, as part of first to file, so a notarized
undisclosed design doesn't count as a public application or publication of the
invention?

~~~
pbhjpbhj
You're right, it needs to be published - publicly available - and notarised to
confirm the date. I'll correct my post.

Edit: oh, apparently I'm not allowed to correct my post. The more I'm here the
more I'm frustrated by how HN is structured and how opaque its rules are.

~~~
rosser
You have a two-hour window after posting to edit a comment.

------
cmm324
I think everyone here should post a comment on their announcement telling them
how absurd this is. What it means for our nation as a whole, not just yoga
videos. Keep the comments clean though, no reason to go all road rage on them.

[http://www.yogaglo.com/blog/2013/09/yogaglo-response-to-
toda...](http://www.yogaglo.com/blog/2013/09/yogaglo-response-to-todays-
news/#comments)

~~~
cmm324
I posted this comment, it will never make it through moderation, but someone
will have to read it.

This patent is absurd and has disastrous potential for our already broken
patent system for all industries, not just instructional fitness. This just
goes to show you how delicate your company is that you feel you need to patent
the camera angle that you use when filming a live event. How about stop
wasting money and time on frivolous patents and start working on making your
product the best in the industry. You will make more money and ultimately have
a happier customer base than going around bullying your competitors. GG.

~~~
cloverich
FWIW, when I go to their facebook page, the most upvoted (top) comment is
lambasting them for this.

Not a heavy facebook user myself - its mostly my older, non-technical friends
- but that makes it the perfect place to post information about how
detrimental this type of business practice is.

------
matthuggins
> the camera used to record online yoga classes must "provide a participatory
> view [which means ‘a view observed by a participant in the rear of the
> class,’ according to YogaGlo] from a height of about three feet."

Well there ya go, just make a video from the second row instead of the back
row!

------
oh_sigh
They patented a camera angle? Can someone patent all the camera angles that
Michael Bay uses in his movies?

~~~
theandrewbailey
Good thinking, but too late.

------
scriptproof
I recently discovered someone patented the android robot (granted in 2013) and
other functions of robots such as walking. So I am not surprised.
[http://www.scriptol.com/robotics/patents.php](http://www.scriptol.com/robotics/patents.php)

------
toddwolf79
FWIW: This YogaGlo company posted a NEW defense of itself today. Does it hold
any water? [http://www.yogaglo.com/blog/2013/12/yogaglo-
update/](http://www.yogaglo.com/blog/2013/12/yogaglo-update/)

------
tobyjsullivan
Isn't there technically a requirement that patentable ideas must be "non
obvious" increments on prior art? This is a concept that is obviously
subjective but seems to be completely ignored by the patent issuers.

------
smalldaddy
Hopefully they go after the porn industry for infringing this patent. The porn
industry has the muscle to move (and change) the patent system.

~~~
angersock
_11\. The method according to claim 8, further comprising the step of making
loud and guttural moans for no apparent reason._

 _12\. The method according to claim 8, further comprising the step of having
the camera positioned looking down the actor 's abdomen during penetration._

------
wavesounds
I was joking with a friend I should patent "uploading yoga to YouTube" just a
few days ago!

This patent is literally a joke.

~~~
Buttons840
Maybe get a few 5 years old together, give them about 60 seconds of
instruction and watch the infringement begin.

------
Fuxy
I'll wait until breathing gets patented.

~~~
IanDrake
Why not, it's already taxed and considered pollution.

------
jayrox
wtf?

