
Immigrants lacking papers work legally – as their own bosses - radley
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ff-immigration-business-20130915,0,4218531.story
======
patio11
Feel free to run this by an immigration lawyer if it matters to you, but
"Opening an LLC is legal regardless of immigration status" is true. It doesn't
imply that _working_ for your own LLC is legitimate absent a work-capable
visa. The Times is mostly reporting on a way which currently avoids controls
designed to make working illegally (which is, ahem, not uncommon) more
difficult.

In a similar fashion, owning a LLC makes it radically easier to not pay income
taxes than being a W-2 employee, but it does not excuse you from paying income
taxes.

~~~
tokenadult
The analysis from patio11 is essentially correct. It is NOT legal to be living
in the United States unless one has a citizenship or visa status that allows
doing so. What forming an LLC does is avoid many of the enforcement mechanisms
that reveal persons who are in the United States illegally. But if you are
found anyway, nothing about forming the LLC will protect you from being
deported. You don't gain an immigration status by forming the LLC--what you
gain is a way of making a living. If you are making a living in the United
States without work permission, you are still an illegal immigrant. Simply
put, the newspaper headline is WRONG--there is nothing legal about working in
those circumstances.

(Obligatory disclaimer: I am simply describing the immigration law of the
United States as it is, not as I might desire it to be.)

~~~
jonemo
Minor nitpick: Visa status != Immigration status

For example: As a student you can have an expired F1 visa in your passport,
but as long as your I-20 document is kept valid and you are attending school
you are fine. The visa is only of concern when crossing the border.

~~~
raverbashing
Correct

This also applied for regular B visas, if it expires on day X you have until
day X to cross the border, but the maximum duration of your stay is determined
by the officer, regardless of the remaining visa duration.

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wait_for_it
At least they can create their own companies in the US. I am currently a
freelance frontend engineer who needs to scale to hire people but I can't
start my own company in France. I have to do it with a French associate who
must be the president. I have the chance of doing it with my best friend.

By the way, they refused to renew my papers because I dropped out of school to
be the CTO in a startup who made it to a notorious national journal.

~~~
einhverfr
I am facing a similar issue with Indonesia.

Really, regarding France, just start an Ltd in the UK and hire people in
France (evil grin).

I am a part owner of a UK LTD
([http://www.efficito.com](http://www.efficito.com)) and neither our
stockholders nor our directors, nor our officers are from the UK. It made it
slightly harder to get a bank account opened in the Netherlands though.

~~~
e12e
Any bank you would recommend?

~~~
einhverfr
I don't know of any in France. My understanding in all cases is that it really
helps to know folks at the bank. So I would start at where you currently do
your banking and see what you can do there.

~~~
e12e
I actually meant in the Netherlands :-)

~~~
einhverfr
I won't say we have a lot of experience and I feel a bit odd making a
recommendation based on being in business for less than a year.... (I am in
Indonesia and this makes it a bit harder to feel secure in my
recommendations.) Feel free to email me at chris@efficito.com and I will talk
with my business partner (who is in the Netherlands) a bit more before giving
a recommendation.

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danielharan
Wow, so a person is brought into a country a 7. At 20, she still has no legal
right to be there, and if caught, can be sent back to "her" country?

That's effed up.

~~~
coldtea
How about this: 300 million people are brought (illegally) to the country at
7.

At 20, should they have a legal right to be there?

~~~
jacquesm
> At 20, should they have a legal right to be there?

Absolutely. After all, if 13 years is not enough to locate and deport them
those people have a right to a continued existence in the place where they are
now completely at home and integrated. Anything else would be inhuman.

~~~
jedmeyers
I know people who worked legally(!) in the US for 14 years, and paid taxes for
this whole time - they do not even have a Green Card yet. And you are saying
that illegal immigrants should get citizenship just because they have been
here for 13 years.

~~~
jedmeyers
If you say that once someone exhibit all properties of a citizen he should
become one. My question to you is: at what point does one start exhibiting all
properties of a citizen and how should Government verify that he does?

~~~
jacquesm
That's easy: as soon as the government thinks that someone ought to be taxed.

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wtn
If you want to engage independent contractor in the US, you need to solicit
federal form W-9 which requires the contractor to provide a Taxpayer
Identification Number (Employer Identification Number or Social Security
Number). If you are engaging a corporation, they usually don't have to provide
a W-9.

If you are a contractor trying to register as a company, you need to put a
Social Security Number for each owner/officer on the registration forms (in
most [all?] of the United States). Persons who aren't authorized to work can
get an ITIN (Individual Taxpayer Identification Number) which is a restricted
Social Security Number. Restrictions include no ability to collect benefits
and expiration after five years.

EDIT: By "register a company" I meant that if you have an ITIN you at least
have a number to put in that space on the registration form. Whether or not
the jurisdiction will accept the number will vary. Whether or not banks in the
area will let you open an account will vary by jurisdiction as well.

~~~
techsupporter
Neither Texas nor Washington State appear to require SSN/ITIN information when
forming a corporation. I've formed corporations in both states and haven't
needed to supply my SSN. The form to request an EIN for the corporation also
doesn't request the individual preparer's SSN. When I opened bank accounts for
these, I was requested to provide my SSN as a "unique identifier" for me but,
with some of the banks/credit unions I used, I was told it is optional.

~~~
ams6110
Was this pre or post patriot act? The identity requirements for bank accounts
got a lot stricter since then.

~~~
jrockway
You don't need an SSN to open a bank account. Consider the number of _legal_
immigrants in the US without a SSN.

~~~
e12e
Legal immigrants don't get a "special" SSN?

~~~
Spoom
I am a lawful permanent resident (i.e. green card holder). My SSN card doesn't
have any endorsement; it appears exactly the same as a US Citizen's card. When
I was on a nonimmigrant visa, it did have the endorsement "VALID FOR WORK ONLY
WITH DHS AUTHORIZATION" as I needed an Employment Authorization Card to work.
(They granted my green card before they approved the EAC though.)

See [http://ssa-
custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1125/~/t...](http://ssa-
custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1125/~/types-of-social-security-
cards-issued) for more details.

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evli
An immigration law reform is ever increasingly necessary. If there wasn't
opportunity for foreigners they wouldn't come here in the first place.

------
Torgo
DACA recipients are not under threat of deportation and are eligible for US
work permits. Arizona law still prevents Carla Chavarria from getting a
driver's license, but not working AFAIK. I have specifically seen it as an
argument against the driver's license law that it makes it hard for DACA
people to get a job.

