
Ask HN: Has all interesting desktop software already been written? - nkobeissi
My question sounds overly generalized, but indulge me:<p>Can you think of any worthwhile&#x2F;interesting software that is desktop-specific (Windows&#x2F;Linux&#x2F;Mac) and that does not already have in-production offerings by at least two competing teams?<p>It&#x27;s actually shocking how difficult I&#x27;m finding it to answer this question. Ten years ago you could have said anything from money management software, to code editors, vector image editors, remote storage, news readers etc. etc. but now all of those markets seem to be addressed and with saturated competition.<p>This makes me wonder whether the &quot;organic software&quot; model of companies like Bohemian Software (Sketch) and Panic (Coda, Transmit) is no longer viable. If you were to create such a company today, what kind of software would you write? Is there still even a single opening in the desktop space for any kind of new software? And how could you assure your ability to compete on the chance that a megacorp (Google, Apple) suddenly implements all of your software functionality and builds it into their services for free?<p>Is there <i>any</i> path forward for independent studios making desktop software anymore?
======
clarry
I don't think all the interesting stuff has been written. But more
importantly, I think a lot of the existing software is just terrible. Big old
monsters that can be time consuming to learn, and which kinda lock you in for
numerous reasons. Horribly inefficient cluttered user interfaces, with old
paradigms that aren't necessarily a great way to interact with the computer...
I think there's a lot of innovation to be made.

Money? That's harder, unfortunately. It's hard to innovate when people want to
cling on to what they already know. Make an image processing & digital
painting utility, and people would only complain that it's not photoshop. Make
a word processor, people complain that it's not MS Office.

~~~
greenyoda
_" Money? That's harder, unfortunately. It's hard to innovate when people want
to cling on to what they already know."_

It's also hard to make money when there's so much free software available,
some of which is quite good. For example, it would take a huge amount of
effort to improve on the functionality of Libre Office, Paint.net, Audacity,
Wireshark, etc. (just to name a few of the free programs I use) but since
people can get these for free, a competing product would have to be a whole
lot better to convince people to pay for it.

~~~
tonyarkles
All of those have piles of competition that make a bunch of money, except
maybe Wireshark. In fact, I'm a paid user of the alternatives (MS Office,
Photoshop, Reaper). I have used the free alternatives that you've mentioned,
but relative to the commercial offerings, they are functional but clunky.

I think there's still piles of room for innovation on the desktop, both for
open source and commercial software. We've reached a lot of local optima, but
things can still be a whole lot better.

For an example of a Photoshop _and_ Paint.net competitor, check out
[http://www.pixelmator.com/mac/](http://www.pixelmator.com/mac/). They've been
around for a few years and seem to be doing quite well. BitWig is a new
competitor in the DAW space: [http://www.bitwig.com/en/bitwig-
studio.html](http://www.bitwig.com/en/bitwig-studio.html).

~~~
wprapido
sketch ([http://www.sketchapp.com](http://www.sketchapp.com)) is a good
illustrator competitor, as well

------
dragonbonheur
NO. All the interesting desktop software has NOT already been written.

Short example: there aren't many - if any - desktop word processing software
with word or phrase completion, so that's one thing you could still do and
sell if you wanted to.

Another example: you could port the majority of desktop software from Windows
to Linux and sell that to companies who want to lower their costs with Linux.
Even if windows was essentially a free upgrade for a time, it won't be
forever.

Some would argue that there are libre or free as in free beer software clones
of Windows desktop software available, often they will cite GIMP as a suitable
replacement for Photoshop, or LibreOffice as a replacement for Microsoft
Office etc., but you can always find a situation that makes you wish you were
running the original on Windows instead of fighting against tersely-documented
software with their fair share of quirks.

Finally the desktop software term may be becoming more vague with time, the
reason for that is because Android is being modifies to run software in a
windowing interface by at least two companies right now, one of them being
RemixOS. Also, single board computers equivalent to the Raspberry Pi are often
able to run the Debian distribution for ARM. so that's another reason to
program more Linux desktop software.

~~~
cossatot
I like the idea of a word processor with many of the features we expect in
text editors. I've figured out how to make Vim (+pandoc) do what I want,
mostly, but I don't expect non-programmers to do that. Word completion,
version control, better image integration than Word or Latex...

~~~
austinjp
Yup, I occasionally use text files plus pandoc. This allows me to keep plain-
text files (actually markdown) in version control, sync'd across multiple
devices, and to generate Word docs, PDFs, etc for those who want them.

I've yet to hit the snag-point when I start getting feedback in the form of
"track changes" in a Word doc -- shudder -- but I'll clear that hurdle when I
come to it. Perhaps I'm fighting a losing battle there.

Top tip for anyone else thinking of doing this: I generate Word docs using
pandoc, then generate PDFs by "save as" from Word. This keeps the formatting
the same, and my pandoc batch-script remains simple.

So... OP... A cross-platform Word-like editor with a non-tech-friendly
interface to version control repositories. Or that last bit as a plug-in for
Word.

Aaand googling "git plugin for ms word" reveals plenty of interesting reading
material.

------
therealmarv
Desktop is for sure at the end of the hype cycle
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle)
but that does not mean that you cannot make money or not be successful when
you write a very good software or you hit a particular niche. And I would not
fear Google or Apple, I cannot remember when Google did the last time a rich
and good desktop app for end consumers (was it Picasa, the last one?) and the
only big professional desktop app I use from Apple (beside the OS) is Final
Cut Pro. They (Apple & Google) do not compete a lot on the desktop
applications software market.

IMHO it may be even easier in desktop market than in the high competing mobile
market where people want everything for free or at very low price. TL;DR
Desktop will not die and there will never be a time were you can say
"Everything is done".

~~~
mlvljr
Funnily, Google [itself] has discountinued its "desktop search engine", which
is a great pity, as there have been no decent alternatives and then, what do
you do when you need to search, say, a document database, consisting of some
.xlsx and .docx files (which are essentially compressed XML files, as I get
it)?

~~~
isxek
For finding files within Windows, there's Everything[0], which is pretty fast
and small (just one .EXE file).

[0]: [http://voidtools.com/](http://voidtools.com/)

~~~
01kb
I've used this, it is pretty fast comparing windows search. Any idea on how it
differs from windows search?

------
crispytx
At the mortgage company I worked at after college, the entire company was
using "command line style" "ms-dos" looking software that ran the entire
company. This software completely dominates the entire mortgage market! Makes
some boring ass mortgage software with a GUI and some bug fixes and you might
make yourself a millionaire. And the software was not "rock solid". It had all
kinds of bugs that screwed up customers accounts and cost them $$$. The only
reason companies use shit like that is because it beats running the company
manually without a computer. So anyway, go out there and write yourself some
boring business process software!

~~~
Lordarminius
what software would that be :) :)

~~~
infinite8s
Was it a servicing company? If so probably LPS.

------
kowdermeister
VR, AR, AI. Three two letter buzzwords. All of them have massive unexplored
potential on the desktop.

> It's actually shocking how difficult I'm finding it to answer this question.

You are asking the wrong question, because you are looking at the existing
market. You need to analyze trends, news and cutting edge science, have
imagination, vision and forward thinking. That's obviously also hard, but it's
not like looking for an empty field in the forest where you want to plant your
trees.

You might find "Blue ocean strategy" a good book.

~~~
SilasX
_Augmented_ reality has potential on the desktop? It kind of depends on being
able to move around and look at arbitrary things in arbitrary directions and
places.

~~~
kowdermeister
I don't know, but I can imagine a wireless headset that talks to a powerful
machine. Remember also that by desktop we don't really mean a huge crate
anymore. Laptops are still hard to miss out of daily work. I spend most of my
day sitting next to one so I wouldn't say AR is not a desktop category.

------
tlrobinson
This is a bit like asking "Have all good books already been written?"

Maybe all the trivial/obvious/easy ones have but certainly not all the
interesting ones.

~~~
kennywinker
Now I'm pondering what a trivial/obvious/easy book is... ;)

~~~
hawkice
Goodnight Moon combines very short length, repetitive format, relatively
straight-forward subject matter choice, and a cross-cultural emotional goal.
Maybe the book that would have been written wouldn't be word-for-word the
same, but if there wasn't Goodnight Moon someone would have written something
nearly indistinguishable.

~~~
rexpop
Meanwhile, in a parallel universe...

"If there wasn't Goodnight Night, someone would have written something nearly
indistinguishable."

------
intAligned
Sketch actually arrived in a period when the vector / pixel drawing tool space
was pretty filled up by giants like illustrator and photoshop. They still hold
the "best software in da place" title. But, Sketch found its niche by offering
a mixed, self-contained solution. The point is, first, distinction: while
Adobe brought real innovation, Sketch somewhat aggregated functionality.
Today, there are new fields opening (AI suffices to keep the thread open for
ages). So it's actually safe to say that there will be a) space for primary
innovation applications and b) space for aggregators, re-configurators of
selected functionality looking for niche functionality (very much like Coda,
today totally disrupted, did with web development tools ~ 5 years ago). Just
look at Sublime and Atom. Even Coda.. wasn't it Vim with some fancy ftp plugin
and ____tree plugin?

------
newtype
I am doing just that. A hugely ambitious project, with a very wide potential
user base, but I have lost all hope in finding funding at a reasonable rate. I
am consulting during the day to pay for what I need, and working on the
product at night.

~~~
bflesch
tell me more about your project

~~~
newtype
Sent you an email.

------
msvan
Any space that lacks competitors is probably lacking competitors because
there's no money in it, or because it takes a huge amount of work. The bar is
high, but we're certainly not "done" with desktop software. For example, if
you can create a text editor that's as snappy as Sublime and as extensible as
Atom, you have my money.

~~~
seesharp
Try Visual Studio Code. It's an Electron app, just like Atom, but it's a LOT
faster. It's open open source too
([https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode](https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode)).

------
IgorPartola
I don't think that having existing software is a bad thing. There were loads
of DVD ripping packages, but at some point Handbrake came out and was better
than the rest. There were loads of screenshoting tools, but at some point
Monosnap came out and set the bar high.

Inventing and implementing soothing that is both compelling and has never been
done before is really tough. How about instead improving on an existing idea
that has not been implemented well?

------
Lordarminius
Great topic!

Short answer: 'No'

The idea of software development for the desktop is one of the reasons why I
got into learning to code in the first place.

FWIW I think a developer should look outside the tech community (and I define
tech loosely to include artists,illustrators and such.) There are, as has been
pointed out, many industries that are
neglected,pharma,finance(!),education,religion,home-users. In addition I think
it is useful to turn ones attention from the West to huge swathes of territory
and consumers that remain unconquered in Africa, Asia, Latin America. Even
within North America many niches exist. Last year an I almost struck up a
partnership with a North American pharmacist who had an idea for a desktop
application that would aid in reviewing patients. Turns out that the pharmacy
review process for patients is ripe for 'digitization'. Our back-of-the-
envelope calculations showed a potential income in the millions of dollars if
we captured just 10% of the market (sadly the partnership did not work out.) I
am currently working on a CRM(!of all things) desktop/mobile app for use in an
under served market. I strongly feel that many such niches still exist. But
you have to look deeply beyond current customers and traditional markets.

~~~
curiousgal
I like how you considered religion an industry.

~~~
adenadel
I have a friend who sells software that enables churchgoers to donate via a
mobile app and someone in the town I grew up in wrote software for youth group
management. You would be surprised at the niche needs that are out there.

------
Alex3917
There are no good fieldguides to plants/trees/fungi for either desktop or
mobile. (I think I've purchased every single one for iOS.)

~~~
alexkavon
I was just thinking about this the other day. I'd like to develop something...

------
gaze
I don't really understand why people are writing off the desktop in general.
For engineering and design and lab software nobody wants tablets. I guess this
is all niche but it's a big niche.

Do I really want my next finite element analysis package or pattern design
software or whatever running on a tablet? Maybe if the tablet is the size of
my table or at least as big as all my monitors put together. This category of
software is in general a bit crappy since professionals in these fields tend
to just accept the flaws of the software and work around them and they just
become part of the practice of the field if the software is sufficiently
popular.

~~~
Spooky23
I work in a large enterprise. Total workforce of 150,000 computer users. 7%
smartphone/tablet penetration rate.

Some PCs are going to be displaced by server based solutions like VDI, but
there has literally been almost no substantial displacement of PC apps. It's a
decade away at least IMO.

The "death" of the PC is exaggerated. I think it's become a boring, stable
market. If anything, the browser computer (i.e. Chrome book)will replace more
PCs than the "mobile" OS platforms. And Chrome is closer to a desktop than an
iPad.

~~~
eb0la
I agree with that. The Pc is not the default choice when you want technology,
but you need one to produce content quickly/with good productivity.

The problem with PCs is replacement times have increased and margins went
down.

------
LarryMade2
I would say not all the desktop apps have been 'rewritten' lately. The
evolution of the desktop many, many great apps for years and decades past have
been obsoleted sometimes the software was way ahead of the hardware.

If you aren't finding anything interesting that is unwritten, you might take a
trip down history and see what things had been abandoned on the wayside fro
one reason or other, that might be time for a refresh.

As far as new platforms - I think augmented reality (such as google glass,
hololens) is going to be a new desktop metaphor and see a lot of "wheel
reinvention" in the coming years as the platforms become stable.

------
dfex
"Can you think of any worthwhile/interesting software that is desktop-specific
(Windows/Linux/Mac) and that does not already have in-production offerings by
at least two competing teams?"

I would say Microsoft Visio on Windows, and Omnigraffle on Mac OS X would be
good examples. Both software packages that command a premium price, have
virtually no competition on their respective platforms and are very specific
to the Desktop.

While writing a clone of either might not be a license to print money, perhaps
focussing on a diagramming tool specific to a niche market might be
interesting?

~~~
Eridrus
Visio has plenty of web-based competitors.

I think this is a reflection of the fact that the web is actually a pretty
good platform for developers.

~~~
khedoros
> Visio has plenty of web-based competitors.

If there's a market for desktop users that would buy that over a subscription
to a web-based system, then it could still be a valid space to try to develop
in.

------
hodgesrm
I am curious why you are asking the question this way. I would ask what are
the most interesting new markets for software. Then you can see if desktop
software seems a relevant part of the solution.

------
erehweb
There is a need for something that makes it easy to build and display pivot
tables on the web. Tableau attempts to fill this, but it is not as easy and
does not have as much functionality as Excel.

~~~
urbannomad
Have you tried PowerBI?

------
detaro
> _Ten years ago you could have said anything from money management software,
> to code editors, vector image editors, remote storage, news readers_

Then years ago there almost certainly where more than two options for most of
these categories, at least for windows and Mac. But that doesn't mean that
there isn't a market for competitors if they can offer something new.

Sketch seems like a perfect example: there already were tons of design
packages before, but they found a niche that wasn't covered well and made a
product fitting it perfectly. Despite Photoshop being the "king" of image
editing software for over a decade there still are commercial competitors
around. Despite google maps & co there still are desktop mapping packages
targeting private users, not to mention commercial users. They probably are
not the most profitable software products, but they are around for years and
get updated, so their makers think it is worthwhile.

A common thread seems to be that these are professional or enthusiast tools,
where user stickiness is higher, and that they either have unique features
that are unlikely to be replicated elsewhere or that they offer a cheaper
alternative to established professional tools. Also harder to be replaced by
mobile or web options.

Regional markets can be another thing, where global companies often only offer
sub-par or way to expensive options.

The biggest issue I see for "studios" is having to find good niches repeatedly
to maintain headcount, because maintenance on a product often needs less
developers than getting it off the ground, and in many markets you can't sell
a new version every year.

------
open-source-ux
I can't think of any serious competitor to Adobe After Effects. There are many
apps that partially overlap e.g. Fusion, or 3D apps like Cinema 4D. Apple's
Motion 5 (the latest version) was released in 2011 and is not considered a
serious competitor.

Another example is InDesign. There are other DTP apps available, but for
professional publication design, InDesign is the leading DTP program.

What Adobe has is "mindshare" amongst designers (and a wealth of tutorials,
brushes, scripts, plugins, presets etc).

But there are encouraging signs that some users are considering alternatives.
Sketch (Mac only) is a suitable alternative to Illustrator for many (if not
all) tasks. So is Affinity Designer (Mac only too, but a Windows version is in
the works). Affinity Photo (Mac only again) is an alternative to Photoshop.

Plus, there are actually a wide number of digital painting apps for both
Windows and Mac (e.g. Painter, Clip Studio, ArtRage, SketchBook Pro etc).

Like other posters have said, there is plenty of scope for new desktop apps to
rival old established apps. So much existing software has poor UX. If you can
develop a better UI and a better or easier method of accomplishing tasks,
people will take an interest. Both Sketch and Affinity Designer/Photo have
enjoyed a swell of enthusiastic users who champion those programs. Much of
their success is precisely because they offer a different/quicker/easier/more
comfortable way of performing tasks than the clunky, cumbersome UIs of their
Adobe rivals.

I'd hate to think that someone would give up on a desktop app because they
think the desktop space is too established or settled. You might not topple
your rivals, but you can certainly carve out a profitable niche.

------
shanehoban
Has all the interesting art already been created?

There is likely enough art to keep any one person entertained for a lifetime,
sure.

In the case of software, there is likely enough desktop software to keep users
content for their lifetime use of computing too - but that doesn't mean that
all useful/interesting art or desktop software has been created, or written.

The question is rather of necessity rather than interesting I think.

------
hyperpallium
> money management software, to code editors, vector image editors, remote
> storage, news readers

Is that really true? e.g. for code editors: vim, emacs and several IDEs.

There's usually only a very brief period between when an idea gets maket
validation, and competitors appear.

In effect, your question asks us to predict the next successful idea, before
it's successful.

That said, creative people tend to be attracted to newer platforms - web,
mobile - which generally have more user convenience and features than desktop
apps, and are "powerful enough" these days.

Something that requires even more power - simulation, VR, games - and/or
requires keyboard and mouse could win on desktop.

------
charlesism
All the interesting cutlery has also already been made, but people still
design new forks and knives. It would be pretty unpleasant if there were only
two fork manufacturers in existence.

~~~
ktRolster
Surely there's a market somewhere for a mix between chopsticks and a spoon.

~~~
DonHopkins
Slurpee Straws?

------
tyingq
You might have better luck looking into a small business niche. If you can
find the right launch customer, software for small businesses can be
lucrative. Orthodontists, pawn shops, dry cleaners, pack-and-mail, etc. A good
launch customer would have enough info to let you know if there's a price or
feature gap you could exploit. Then, a follow-on appearance at a trade show
(even with a faked up mock-up app) would let you gauge interest level.

------
selamtux
You can delevop new softwares like cloud management (aws or/and google compute
engine) or really working docker management ui, or something similar.

Or flash to html5 converter (convert all games example)

So you have keep eye on technical changes around the world.

Also softwares reaaly depending local env. Yes maybe photoshop or ms office is
big products bu these is lot of local area to develop new apps. (When i said
local think as countrys) for doing that you must travel the world.

------
kennywinker
Someone might very well have said exactly this five years ago. One of your
examples, Sketch, has only existed since 2010. In five years time there will
probably be some widely known app that didn't exist today.

What are the design and creation tools for augmented reality? Or chatbots or
whatever. There will be new niches created, and new ways of doing old tasks
discovered.

------
visakanv
I'm still always wishing that there would be some really good way to manage my
information/media consumption in a simple, centralized way. I find Pocket
unsatisfactory. I'm talking particularly about books, videos (movies, youtube
vids, netflix series, etc) and news articles online. My current system is
ridiculously scattered.

~~~
JadeNB
Apple really, really wants you to use iTunes for this. (Well, eventually, they
decided that iTunes manages everything _but_ books, so now we have iBooks,
which doesn't even let you manage your own library.) In case you haven't used
it, take my word for it that it's a disaster and you probably don't really
want that.

~~~
visakanv
Hahahaha yeah. I've tried a lot of different systems and tools and
combinations, but I've never even gone near iTunes. I'm not sure why, I think
I just have a subconscious intuition that it would be terrible.

Goodreads is surprisingly frustrating to use, I wonder why nobody's made a
better version yet.

~~~
extrapickles
All of the book sites seem to have really bad notifications that an author you
like has released a new book.

They heavily spam you with 'recommendations' to read books that you explicitly
dont want to read, but never even a peep about authors you told them you like.

~~~
x0x0
Really? Goodreads reliably emails me every month about new releases of authors
I've read. I actually love them for this, because amazon does a terrible job
of notifying me when authors from whom I've bought multiple books release new
books.

ps: authors -- get a goddamn email list. You can write short fiction set in
the same universe as your longer works and I'll buy it for $3 for 30 pages.
Way more profitable than a whole book. Have a gap between releases? Spend 2
weeks and earn $10k or more. It's nearly free goddamn money. See, eg, Mira
Grant.

------
reitanqild
One thing I would love to find as commercially friendly open source or want to
buy or for up to $2 pr license is basically a single-site-browser creation kit
(like mozilla prism) only with a few more added bells and whistles like quake-
like slide-in, configurable window borders etc.

~~~
cpr
On the Mac, Fluid.app might fit some of those requirements.

------
brightball
Remember, build a better mousetrap. Don't avoid mousetraps because somebody
already made one.

------
avmich
There is a systematic, though still hard in practice, approach to answering
this question. You can enumerate what software could possibly be needed, as
automation tools for what tasks can possibly be required to complete and
methods which are available for them.

------
swah
No, everything is up for replacement. How/when are we going to replace web
browsers (and tech) we're currently using?

------
somberi
Have all the interesting paintings been painted?

------
beachstartup
make an app that works exactly like Stickies.app, except shows up exactly the
same on all of your devices. I'd pay about 20 bucks for that.

~~~
anotheryou
you need the cluttery look? syncing text-files or evernote or something would
be that otherwise.

~~~
beachstartup
yes, i like the cluttery look because i can arrange the windows in a way that
makes sense to me.

~~~
anotheryou
that will give trouble on smaller screens, you'd have it scrolling or need to
zoom a lot

~~~
beachstartup
i think the fact that you're trying to tell my own opinion to me is pretty
hilarious.

~~~
anotheryou
My word choice ("cluttery") was a subjective bias, expressing, tongue-in-
cheek, that I prefer folder hierarchies.

With my later comment I simply referred to the problem of translating the
desktop widescreen to the small smartphone screen.

------
cloudjacker
No, the Monero GUI has been in development for two years and its almost done!

I'm being partially sarcastic

------
rubenolivares
The answer to this is a resounding NO.

Browser graphics is in the stone age compared to Desktop graphics. And that's
just to name one thing.

------
protomyth
Have all the great songs been written? I get the feeling the answer is the
same probably for similar reasons.

I honestly think it was easier for me (located in ND / MN) to find good pop
bands in the UK in the 90's than finding good software now. There is so much
noise and I cannot easily keep track of what people I follow on various
networks are using. We have a huge amount of information, but search just
doesn't work anymore and the filters on various networks are horrible. I get
the feeling the ad model is to blame.

