

Ask HN: Expensive college, no money, no credit history. What do I do? - gmaster1440

Dear HN,<p>I write to you today with a question whose answer means a lot to my family and myself. The answer need not present a direct solution to the problem I will discuss shortly; a story from personal experience or words of advise/wisdom would suffice. I thank you for taking your time to elucidate a matter we are greatly troubled by, it means a lot!<p>I am a senior in high school. More particularly, I am a self-motivated computer science kid who got accepted into 2 colleges/universities, MIT and Poly. I love working on projects while learning TCS. You would find me spending a weekday afternoon hacking away on a realtime video converter leveraging NodeJS and Go, later to catch me reading an episode of Achilles and the Tortoise from GEB (with the occasional (frequent) refreshes of HN in-between the chapters).<p>Now that you know a little about me, let us shift focus to the elephant in the room: tuition. More particularly, cost of education vs. its worth.<p>MIT - $120k :: Well, it's MIT<p>Poly - ∅ :: Decent polytechnic, decent education, more info on http://www.poly.edu/<p>To make a long story short, my parents are in a complicated financial situation (hence practically no financial aid from MIT and ineligibility to take private loans due to credit history) and can contribute $100k for my education at MIT (this is for all 4 undergrad years, after private loan from family member). Where/how can I come up with $40k a year?<p>Should I pursue Poly, I will have no financial weight on my shoulders.<p>From the various impressions I made from students and people regarding the value of MIT, I feel like it is worth the money. The motivated students I will find there, the crazy projects I will be working on, the top-quality education I will be receiving, all of these things <i>seem</i> to be worth the money. What do you think? Then again, there is the physical constraint of actually affording it (it would be great to receive some guidance on affordability as well, considering the fact that the government and school have nothing more to offer me in terms of financial accommodations).<p>Any comments greatly appreciated,<p>- Mark
======
tokenadult
In my opinion, which I welcome other HNers to disagree with, showing their
steps, I would prefer MIT.

Before I go on, let me ask how two colleges can still be in play for you on 3
May 2011, two days after the uniform national reply date of 1 May? Did you
indicate to BOTH colleges that you accepted the offer of admission? Or is
there something else going on here?

Back to answering your question. It is my general observation of young people
who have faced the question you face--attending MIT or attending the low-list-
price state university--that the persons who attend MIT end up being happy
that they did so, and no worse off (arguably, better off) financially for
having done so. What I hear about such persons is that they gain so many more,
and so much more lucrative, career opportunities because of matriculating at
MIT that the higher out-of-pocket costs is more than made up for. And what
everyone who applies to MIT really seeks there, I think, is a community of a
bunch of learners who can learn rapidly, deeply, and avidly for four years
together with an amazing group of peers.

That said, I largely agree with pg's point in his essay "News from the Front"

<http://www.paulgraham.com/colleges.html>

that it "may not matter all that much where you go to college." What you do in
college, and how you apply what you learned in college after college, makes an
even bigger difference than where you go to college.

------
ncash
I faced a similar problem when I was starting college. My father is disabled
and my mother passed away during my junior year of high school, so I had zero
financial support from my family for school.

Due to financial considerations, I chose a state school where I had some
scholarships instead of the big name tech school that accepted me. Let me tell
you, I have regretted it ever since.

The simple fact is that if you -can- get into a top tier school like MIT then
you should go. The caliber of your fellow students will be much, much higher
than at a state school, and that alone is priceless. One of the best things
about college is networking and, for hackers, finding like-minded individuals
to make things with. Once you factor in faculties, facilities, and
opportunities, it should be a no brainer.

Regarding money, almost no college students have credit history, but that
doesn't stop almost all of them from getting loans. I would be very surprised
if you didn't qualify for student loans, even if you have to get them from a
private organization / bank. I would talk to MIT's admissions/financial aid
office, as they can probably help you piece together how you can pay for
things.

Don't let money stand between you and your education. The connections you'll
make and the experiences you'll have at MIT will be worth the extra money you
pay. Of course you'll also like college a hell of a lot more. I know plenty of
people who, like me, settled for a state school and have been bored out of
their minds.

tl;dr -- Go to MIT and find a way to make the finances work.

~~~
hilite
I have to echo ncash's comment. Don't let money stop you to choose a school
that you are supposed to go. Any problem that can be solved by reasonable
amount of money is not a problem. When you look back after 10 years, $100K is
not much of money. Try to raise money by loans, working, and even from
friends/relatives. No doubt this is not easy but you are young that got
nothing to lose.

------
akashs
Yes, it will be tough, but you will have time to earn money. Many MIT students
work during the school year and in the summer to be able to pay for school.
Here are some options for you if you do decide to go to MIT, all of which have
been done by MIT students in the past:

1) Take that $100K. 2) Get a summer job: $10K - $15K saved right there (more
if you do a hedge fund / finance gig over the summer) 3) Get a job over IAP.
Another month's worth of salary. 4) Get a job at MIT. MIT's great about giving
opportunities for students. You can get paid to do research through the UROP
program. You can get paid be a grader, a lab assistant, a TA, a deskworker in
your dorm (i.e., get paid to sit around while you do your psets) 5) Start a
business 6) Get a job somewhere else. There's plenty of people willing to hire
MIT kids part time, and plenty of those pay very well 7) Start a stock trading
operation in your dorm 8) Learn poker 9) You get the point

One other thing you might try is to petition for financial aid and explain
your situation. MIT typically lets you petition anything, although I don't
know if that applies for financial aid.

------
guelo
I've done business with a guy who went to MIT more than 30 years ago and he
still puts MIT on his email signatures, he says that even with all that he's
accomplished it's that title that still opens doors for him. If you can do MIT
it's a no-brainer, it will be paying dividends for the rest of your life.

------
borski
I considered Poly as well. I chose MIT. My best friend went to Poly. Aside
from not being next door to my best friend for four years, I can honestly say
that going to MIT was, by far, one of the best decisions of my life.

You'll make the money back. Once out of school, you'll make far more money (by
default, and whether this is "right" or not is arguable, but that doesn't make
it any less true) coming from MIT than from Poly. Your yearly salary will be
higher, as there will be more competition for your "talent." This all, of
course, presumes you do _well_ at MIT, but if you were admitted I suspect that
you would.

If you haven't already contacted the MIT Financial Aid office, do it now; I
presume you have. Send me a personal email (email in my profile) and I can try
to put you in touch with some people.

Having had my best friend go to Poly, we basically went through school
together; talking almost daily. The classes he had were significantly easier,
and far less interesting. Whether this is a plus is arguable, but I certainly
don't think it is. While I was learning about Red-Black Trees, he was learning
about binary search; shit at MIT just moved faster.

The people you meet (again, having met people at both places) at MIT are also
going to challenge you more; though not necessarily more intelligent, they are
more self-selected to be self-starters and curious/inquisitive minds. They
_will_ challenge you and you'll have more fun.

My $.02: You should go to MIT if you can. Think of it as giving up a little
bit of equity in your life; life is short, if you come out better for it in
the end (i.e. had more fun, learned more, opened up more opportunities,
whatever you choose your metric to be) it'll be well worth it.

------
arn
I find it interesting that while there tends to be a lot of "higher ed isn't
worth it" posts that trickle to the top of HN, everyone replying to this
thread is recommending going to MIT.

I also think you should go to MIT. Especially given your description of your
self-motivated history. I didn't go to MIT, but I would expect the caliber of
education and, more importantly, the higher level of the other students at MIT
will be worth it.

~~~
JoachimSchipper
There is a difference between paying $BIGNUM to go to a not-so-great school
and paying $BIGNUM to go a renowned school, especially if you're going to
learn something that will let you pay off $BIGNUM easily.

------
lsc
Others are saying that you should go to MIT, and I really don't know enough to
argue one way or another on that. However, you asked how do you come up with
$40K a year with no education and no credit history?

First, if you think the debt is worth it (and I'm not saying it is or it
isn't) talk to the councilors at MIT. they have people who specialize in
charging kids as much as they can pay but not more. But generally speaking, if
you are willing to mortgage everything you can, those people can help you.

Next, there is the question of a job. Do you have experience? if not, you are
going to have a damn difficult time getting $40K on just a part-time job, and
right now is an especially difficult time for people without experience. In
the bay area, positions for people of your experience are around $30-$50k/year
for full-time, at the high end.

I can tell you from experience that trying to go to school while working a
full time job is extremely difficult. I'm not saying you shouldn't try; you
got in to MIT; you are almost certainly a better worker than I am. But if you
do try to work full time as you go to school; make sure you have a reasonable
plan B.

------
namank
I would go to MIT, Mark.

You sound like someone who would love to work on projects helping profs. MIT
is one of the best places for that.

Looking around the internet (and researching lots on MIT as a grad school), I
find that professors there are thought leaders of the fields. The work they do
is about 15-20 years ahead of the rest of the world. And it doesn't seem like
work.

I can understand your financial situation. However, you DO get summers to work
and make money. Once you have a school such as that AND projects that you
mentioned on your resume, lucrative summer jobs will be easy to find. Trust me
on that, I essentially work for 4 months then go to school for 4 months.

Also, credit history aside, make sure you atleast apply for student loans. It
has been my experience that once banks/govts see your promising future (and
thus their financial security), they are more willing to shell out some dough.

------
deafcheese
Another alternative is to go to Poly for a year or two and take care of some
general requirements. Then, transfer to MIT. Schools are generally very
receptive to transfer students who they originally admitted in the first
place, especially if you explain that the decision was financial.

Also, just a note - I'd advise you to be wary of the advice you get. Few
people have attended both MIT and Poly are able to directly compare them. The
opportunities you will find at both schools are simply different, not
necessarily with one being better than the other.

MIT will certainly have more resources and opportunities than Poly. However,
keep in mind that there will also be more smart, motivated people vying for
those opportunities, and in reality there is a fixed number of opportunities
you can realistically pursue anyway.

But Poly will allow you to stand out. In a place where few of your peers will
even bother to speak to the professor after class, you can monopolize on the
opportunities that are available. Plus you will always be seen as "that guy
that got into MIT," and your peers will view you as a leader, allowing you to
take leadership positions and convince other people to join your projects with
ease.

Also, don't underestimate the magnitude of the money you will save. 100K could
be the totality of savings you will amass 4-5 years out, graduating from MIT.
That's a lot of time to grind away paying off debt.

------
bakbak
i dont whether people will agree to this ... because you're lucky enough to
get help of $100K ...you must join MIT - this is once in a life time
opportunity ... at least you won't regret later in your life ... once you
start your program you may work part-time (on or off campus) ... also because
your case is genuine you can also ask for donation thru sharing your technical
knowledge thru blog or social media or any other method (i'm sure you'll
succeed) --- good luck.

------
bricestacey
I didn't really try to go to a good school and am finishing up my degree now
at UMass Boston. I regret it because everything and everybody is average and
there seems to be a natural tendency toward the average of the group, which is
not good when surrounded by average people. I don't know how well Poly stacks
up, but at a school like MIT you are going to be surrounded by many more
people that are smarter than you and you will learn so much more.

Here are my thoughts on how to scrounge up some money.

Over 4 years you can borrow up to $27k through Federal Direct Loans[1]. I'm
pretty sure these are available to anyone who fills out the FAFSA.

You can get an on-campus job, probably at a good wage (can someone chime in
the hourly wage for a student worker?). Assuming $15/hr, working 15 hours per
week for 9 months, that's $34k over 4 years. Assuming same rate, you can also
get a summer job for around $8k over 4 years.

With your parents $100k, that's $169k right there. If that's not enough...

Your parents can fix their financial situation within 4 years and take on
additional private loans.

You can have someone other than your parents cosign your student loans.

Good luck!

    
    
      [1] http://www.direct.ed.gov/applying.html

------
ainsleyb
As an MIT alum I have to comment on how valuable an MIT education is. Whether
you're from a public school in the middle of nowhere (like me) or from an
awesome tech school, there's something of value for everyone. Not only did I
finally learn physics with calculus, though I'm not an engineer, but learned a
great deal about things out of my major (some of which I'm now starting a
company with).

I always say MIT was the best place for me, and I can honestly say I wouldn't
have been as happy anywhere else. I got to explore anything and everything
under the sun, from D1 rowing and cognitive vision, to understanding hash
tables and how to write malicious scripts. ;)

Looking at the finances, contact MIT financial aid if you haven't yet. There
are also plenty of great opportunities on and off campus to work during all
times of the year. Your education is an investment and you've got a pot of
gold lying in your lap. Find some way to keep it.

Tl;dr go to MIT. You won't regret it.

If you have any questions or need any help feel free to email (see my hn
profile), and good luck! :)

------
beatpanda
Go to the cheap school and do something substantial there that makes you stand
out. It'll be much easier there and cost you a lot less, meaning that when you
graduate, you'll have freedom of choice regarding what to pursue without the
albatross of debt around your neck.

Meanwhile, if you think the education at MIT is worth it, you can get a lot of
the CS stuff through OpenCourseWare (like I am, because I go to a bullshit
JavaSchool).

The only real reason to go to MIT is the connections you'll get, which might
be substantial, but keep in mind that these days, talented people tend to find
each other just fine without a college campus as a medium.

Yes, you will be doing more interesting things at MIT, but there's nothing
stopping you from making interesting things happen at the cheap school, and
being an initiator of interesting things is way better than passively
benefitting from the initiative of others.

Debt isn't just a burden, it's a tool of social control. Don't be a victim. Go
cheap.

------
equark
If you have the opportunity to go to MIT and don't plan on being a ski bum,
poet, or surfer after, take it.

~~~
ainsleyb
... There are some great poetry professors at MIT, but valid.

------
keeptrying
If you can go to MIT then go.

Throughout life people will give you an opportunity mainly based on two things
- your reputation and your ability. Going to MIT will prove to a lot of people
that you have the ability.

Also you have to work with the best to be in the top of your field. Read the
book"the talent code". You simply have to go to MIT if you can get in.

------
ajkessler
Definitely do MIT.

There are literally thousands of scholarships out there, even if you're a rich
white kid with no sob story. Seriously. If you treat hunting down scholarships
as a job over this summer, I have little doubt you can track down the money to
fully cover your expenses.

~~~
ajkessler
Just ran across this:

[http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/chris-rock-
little-...](http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/chris-rock-little-bets-
entrepreneurship/)

and

[http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/the-1-day-
iwilltea...](http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/the-1-day-
iwillteachyoutoberich-entrepreneurship-boot-camp/)

This guy did exactly what I'm talking about. You can too.

------
nemik
Email Peter Thiel.

------
kgc
I'm currently a student at MIT and about to graduate. Go to MIT, if not for
the academics, for the people you will meet. Do it for serendipity
maximization.

------
JoachimSchipper
Have you _considered_ doing undergrad somewhere cheap and then getting a
MSc/PhD somewhere prominent? I've seen this route recommended before.

------
amorphid
If you are good enough to get into MIT, you probably don't need to go to MIT.

------
niico
Start a business.

------
rprasad
There's always the world's oldest profession.

Or in seriousness, find a startup in the area and intern with them for the
summer. With that under your belt, you''ll find a paying job by the time the
fall semester starts.

Alternatively, write an iPhone app or web app over the summer and use that to
get a job or make money.

Finally, there's always Kickstarter.

