
How to sell a $300 chocolate bar - bookofjoe
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/expensive-chocolate-ecuador-toak
======
jadell
My spouse works at an artisanal chocolate factory in Raleigh, NC[0]. From
experience, there is a huge difference in quality between small batch
chocolate bars and bonbons vs mass manufactured. Even with small batch,
there's a difference between buying it in a store vs buying it fresh from the
factory.

That said, I don't think that difference is worth an extra $290. Once you're
over the $5-to-10 per bar mark, there's diminishing returns on quality (for me
at least.) Anything over that and you're paying for the story and branding. A
$7 single-origin fair trade bar tastes the same as a $300 one, and in both
cases, they're probably sourcing from the same farmer.

[0] [https://viderichocolatefactory.com/](https://viderichocolatefactory.com/)

~~~
lamename
The fact that it's possible to charge this much for certain food & drink is
both embarrassing and fascinating to me.

On one hand, anyone who's spent the time to cultivate a preference can tell
some bit of difference between "crappy" beer/wine/coffee/chocolate/etc. and
"the good stuff". On the other hand, taste & smell in particular are so
adjusted by expectation, visual presentation, and of course stories of bespoke
products from old-world artisans.

But even if you're aware of all that, I'm the first to admit it's easy to get
enveloped in the more "objective" ways to put food & drink on a magical
pedestal (especially those with psychoactive properties like alcohol,
caffeine, & other drugs). Learn how different hop varietals contribute
different alpha-acid concentrations that affect the taste and smell of beer,
or the flavor profile of coffee roasts, or the THC/CBD ratio of marijuana
strains...

It's not that it's all bullshit, there's some truth there for sure, it's just
interesting to me when I find myself geeking out about these things. I don't
(think) I fall for stories behind products, but there are many ways humans
essentially get lost in, for lack of a better word, the "magic" properties of
substances we ingest.

I see it as a kind of glitch of the human mind that's both life-enriching and,
sometimes, to the detriment of our wallets.

~~~
jackhack
>nyone who's spent the time to cultivate a preference can tell some bit of
difference between "crappy" beer/wine/coffee/chocolate/etc. and "the good
stuff".

Maybe not. But people will pay for a story.

Charles Shaw wines (sold at Trader Joe's stores, and affectionately known as
"Three Buck Chuck") has won numerous blind competitions over wines costing a
hundred times more.

And the famous Stradivarius instruments, valued at north of $1,000,000 cannot
easily be discerned from high-end modern violins. But the mystique of the
brand, the imagery of these little singing cabinets scraped out of wood 200
years ago, continues to fuel the market.

People pay $60 for a single ice cube carved from a glacier. That 100,000 year
old ice sure must be yummy.

~~~
rosser
I have a friend who makes high-end violin, _& c_, bows (think: five-figure
price tags) who was recently at a conference of sorts for musicians, bow
makers, and such.

An acquaintance of his was carrying a Stradivarius, on loan from some
foundation or other which had it insured for a silly amount of money. The
acquaintance played it during a performance at this event. To my friend's
somewhat experienced ears, it actually sounded pretty flat (not poorly tuned,
but rather _dull_ ), relative to so many of the other instruments he's heard.
In telling me about this, he didn't seem particularly surprised by that.

It's anecdata, but it clearly supports the notion that people will pay
mightily for a name and attendant reputation, over actual quality.

~~~
jdietrich
The classical world has created a tautological definition of violin quality -
a good violin is one that sounds most like a Stradivarius. With modern
luthiery techniques, it's not difficult to build a relatively inexpensive
instrument that's brighter or darker or more powerful or has more complex
overtones, but any "improvement" will be perceived as a deviation from that
ideal. Blind tests of violins are remarkably rare, which I think is a largely
deliberate decision.

I'm reminded of the Judgement of Paris:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_of_Paris_(wine)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_of_Paris_\(wine\))

~~~
kpil
I happened to see a YouTube blind-test of a flute, and the next to cheapest
flute won.

But blind testing is also hard, maybe you need to listen or taste for days,not
just a few minutes.

I suspect a lot of sugar and artificial flavours are added to products as
people are reacting favourably in 30 second blind tests, but given a chance
they would appreciate the nuances of less engineered products. The sugar and
the esters are getting old fast.

------
ajoy
You can make your own chocolate. Get some raw cacao beans, roast it in the
oven, break the shells, grind it to a paste, adding as much sugar as you like.
Not the same as a bar, texture-wise, but pretty damn good.

The first time I tried it was in Mexico at a chocolate workshop. The
instructor got freshly roasted beans, ground it on a stone along with other
ingredients that I got to pick - Sugar (common), pepper (uncommon), Star Anise
(uncommon) and eat the buttery thick paste.

These guys seem to know what they are talking about :
[http://chocolatealchemy.com/how-to-make-chocolate-the-
comple...](http://chocolatealchemy.com/how-to-make-chocolate-the-complete-
text-guide/#alchemists-notebook-intro)

------
piracykills
Is there a word for people who are extremely skeptical of expensive things?
Maybe I'm just cheap, but my attitude is simple - unless you can show me an
objective benefit, I ain't paying for it. When I see a "story" driving a
product like the article mentions, I often react in total disbelief or
outright disgust, it's something that quickly sends me to a competing product.

The audio industry is particularly bad with this kind of thing, only a few
people actually looking at numbers and doing blind ABX tests.

~~~
brenschluss
I wonder if there’s a rule of thumb for pricing the ideal item. Like: double
the cost of the cheapest equivalent and you have a good quality pair of boots.

For example: you can get cheap boots for $80, that will fall apart in a year.
Double the cost: $160, and that might yield an okay pair of boots that would
at least last 5 years. Etc.

~~~
nradov
I don't think boots are a good example because the most important quality is
how well they _fit_ , not how long they last. If the $80 boots fit perfectly
and don't give you blisters then buy them even if you have to replace them
every year. Since everyone's feet are different there's no real correlation
between price and fit.

~~~
lox
I think you can probably assume “fitting ok” is a functional requirement from
either the cheap ones or the expensive ones.

------
brd
Bean to bar seems like a profitable, growing niche. I have friends who produce
very high quality truffles and have been toying around with the idea. Two
interesting things I've learned is 1) how many newcomers there are to the bean
to bar scene in the US and 2) how small the universe of serious chocolate
producers (from a truffle perspective at least) actually is.

Obligatory link to friends shop:
[http://www.mokayagr.com/](http://www.mokayagr.com/)

~~~
bookofjoe
LOCATION:

638 Wealthy [sic] Street SE

Grand Rapids, Michigan 49503

616.551.1925

~~~
RightMillennial
Is there something wrong with the spelling of "Wealthy"? That's the name of
the street and the proper spelling.

~~~
bookofjoe
No, nothing wrong with the spelling; rather, I found it ironical.

~~~
RightMillennial
Oh, I get it now. That completely passed over me because I'm familiar with the
actual street.

------
debacle
As someone who fancies good chocolate, I haven't really found an incredibly
high correlation between cost/satisfaction past the 4 dollar per bar mark. The
only real exception to that is exceptionally fresh chocolate that's been made
only a few feet away from where I'm buying it, but there's nowhere like that
local to me.

~~~
wuliwong
I haven't even thought of "fresh chocolate" before reading these comments.
What is it about fresh chocolate that's better?

~~~
sp332
Like coffee, a lot of the flavor and smell are extremely volatile chemicals.
(Not in the explosive sense lol.) They just evaporate into thin air in a small
amount of time, which is one of the reasons they have such a strong smell. If
you keep ground coffee sitting around for a few days, it's going to taste
noticeably different for the same reason.

~~~
zjaffee
I've heard similar things about milling your own grains into flower before
cooking with them. The flavor profile of anything you make with it will simply
just be stronger.

~~~
mseebach
I hypothesised the same, remembering the huge difference freshly ground coffee
made, and got a flour grinder a little while back. I've only made a few
batches, and I'm still tuning the recipe, but I have not been blown away by
the flavour. I need to try different kinds of grain, and I guess I need to
make a proper side-by-side comparison, but it certainly is nothing like coffee
in flavour-difference.

------
microtherion
Is it just me, or does the whole thing have a whiff of NōKA chocolate?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noka_Chocolate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noka_Chocolate)

~~~
guelo
What about it makes you think they're frauds?

~~~
microtherion
The high price. The marketing that plays primarily on intangibles. It just all
seems to be from a playbook that is well known in the wine world, and has Noka
as a precedent in chocolate.

That said, I have no concrete evidence that they're frauds. For all I know,
everything they say about their chocolate could be true (which, arguably,
would be the best scam of them all; I just can't see a rational argument to be
made for a $300 chocolate bar).

------
cwkoss
> From there, Toth suggests placing a square of chocolate into your mouth,
> breaking it into small pieces with your teeth, and letting it melt. No
> chewing.

This is some 'shaken but not stirred' nonsense. How do you break something
into small pieces with your teeth without chewing?

~~~
magic_beans
Chewing means mashing it up repeatedly until it becomes a fine paste. The guy
means just break it up into large chunks and let them sit on your tongue until
they dissolve, without further maceration.

~~~
stouset
Yeah, I don’t get the problem. He’s just trying to get across the point of
chewing just a small amount, instead of mashing it into paste.

If you don’t think this makes a difference… even if you’re right, you’re
wrong. As Serious Eats points out with their articles on Mexicoke[1] and
eggs[2], our enjoyment of food is inextricably linked with our emotional
perspective on where the food came from and how we’re eating it. The simple
act of caring about how you chew a bar of chocolate _actually_ increases your
subjective enjoyment of it, even if a hypothetical double-blind experiment
would show no discernible difference.

You could immediately follow that tasting with another bar for which you give
exactly opposite instructions: macerate quickly, trying to expose as much of
the chocolate’s surface area as possible in order to maximize the evaporation
of volatile oils. I would wager heavily that the explicit difference in
instruction and focus on a different aspect of the experience would heighten
the taster’s appreciation of _both_ bars.

[1]: [https://drinks.seriouseats.com/2011/09/the-food-lab-
drinks-e...](https://drinks.seriouseats.com/2011/09/the-food-lab-drinks-
edition-is-mexican-coke-better-than-regular-coke-coke-taste-test-coke-vs-
mexican-coke.html)

[2]: [https://www.seriouseats.com/2010/08/what-are-the-best-
eggs-c...](https://www.seriouseats.com/2010/08/what-are-the-best-eggs-cage-
free-organic-omega-3s-grocery-store-brand-the-food-lab.html)

------
lpolovets
To me the most interesting thing here is that there's a market for $300
chocolate bars.

Entrepreneurs are often reluctant to charge more for their products in the
early days, and articles like this show that customer interest doesn't require
low prices. If you can demonstrate value and differentation, people will pay
more than you might expect. Sometimes much, much more.

~~~
lazerpants
It has a certain 2006-2007 vibe to it, from how I remember the last major
economic expansion.

------
mattmurdog
As someone that once owned an artisan chocolate factory, based on what I can
see, I can make and sell this chocolate for around $5-6 wholesale. Meaning if
I can unload 30,000-50,000 bars to Safeway.

------
hinkley
Before Hershey, chocolate _was_ a luxury good. And of course modern
chocolateries exist on a spectrum from gift for grandma to luxury item.

I mean I get where they’re going [edit: and they have a good story] but this
is within an order of magnitude of what already exists so the setup is a
little flat IMO.

------
banderman
atlasobscura.com seems to mostly be click bait and paid placement these days,
and it consistently gets spammed to social media platforms. I wish there was a
way to filter out certain news sources from the feed.

~~~
bbctol
I really want to see an analysis of how they went from obscurity (no pun
intended) to ubiquitous a few months ago. The site's been around for years,
but it seems to have taken over my news feeds on multiple platforms overnight.
I don't mind too much, but I'm sure there's something interesting going on
there.

~~~
banderman
They raised $7.5mm towards the end of last year, so maybe there's more ad
spending going? [https://digiday.com/media/atlas-obscura-ceo-david-plotz-
vide...](https://digiday.com/media/atlas-obscura-ceo-david-plotz-video-arrow-
quiver/)

------
grinsekatze
Reasonably priced chocolate by people that want to make a change and help the
people harvesting get a fair share of the profit that come to mind are “Tony
Chocolony”, “FairAfric” and “Madécasse”. I really like how the individual
pieces of tony chocolony bars are very unequally devided...

~~~
joe5150
Tony's Chocolonely are the best, really. The big bars are 6oz and go for about
$5.75 at the store where I buy them, which is a great value.

------
dyarosla
Another article points to the fact that they also play the scarcity card and
limit the supply per year. 574 bars, at $300 a piece actually limits their
profits significantly (even if they do manage to sell all 574, after marketing
and expenses- distribution, packaging)... just how much of a business is this?
Is it worth it for the team behind To'ak? And wouldn't scaling the number of
bars made, in time, diminish their value?

From how I see it, the long term strategy would have to be to develop the
brand name, then sell more bars at a lower price, and then ALSO create an
extra-premium bar at an even larger premium price. It all leaves a bad taste
in my mouth.

~~~
Terribledactyl
It looks like they sell lots of small batches, a particular batch might be
574, another 100, no limit to the number of batches though.

------
blang
Can't help but think of the movie "Sour Grapes" that shows "wine connoisseurs"
completely fooled by some fraudulent mixes:

[https://decider.com/2016/12/06/sour-grapes-on-netflix-
wine-s...](https://decider.com/2016/12/06/sour-grapes-on-netflix-wine-
scandal/)

~~~
lazerpants
Your dismissive tone is probably a little off base on this. By most accounts
the swindler in question was exceptionally good at identifying subtleties in
wines and did a good job of producing fake wines that were both palate
pleasing and mimicked elements of the wine being counterfeited. Add to that
the fact that most people don't buy a mid 20th century Bordeaux and just go
home and slurp it, most of it sits for a long time before opening.

Sadly, they destroyed his counterfeits. I think they could've actually sold
them (all his wine was sold off to compensate those he defrauded), I certainly
would've been interested in a hosted tasting comparing some real rare wines to
his counterfeits.

[https://www.winemag.com/2017/08/14/how-rudy-kurniawan-
fooled...](https://www.winemag.com/2017/08/14/how-rudy-kurniawan-fooled-the-
wine-world/)

~~~
narag
_By most accounts the swindler in question was exceptionally good at
identifying subtleties in wines and did a good job of producing fake wines
that were both palate pleasing and mimicked elements of the wine being
counterfeited._

If that can be done cheaply and fools experts, I would buy it.

------
wufufufu
Follow-up: How would you sell a $50 cheese stick?

~~~
ceejayoz
Sell it at an NFL stadium?

------
zappo2938
These idiots have no idea about quality. It is conspicuous consumption. [0]

[0] [https://www.eater.com/2015/12/23/10657022/what-the-mast-
brot...](https://www.eater.com/2015/12/23/10657022/what-the-mast-brothers-
scandal-tells-us-about-ourselves)

------
PaulAJ
A joke I heard as a child had a salesman explaining that a jacket was made of
wool from a rare breed of mountain sheep, hand spun by artisans in their
homes, and then woven into this cloth. "It is a beautiful yarn." he finished.

"Yes," said the customer, "and you tell it so well too."

------
kkotak
The said supreme quality products are made and marketed as such solely by
people who understand the basic rich person need to have something to
differentiate themselves from the economic classes lower than themselves. If
there were no products, houses, cars, wines, restaurants, shoes, suits, hand
bags, airline class, hotels, etc. that help a class to differentiate itself
from the the lower one - what's the point of making money your only and sole
objective in life?

------
emodendroket
Charge $300 for it and customers will perceive it as better-tasting even if
it's exactly the same.

(OK basically what they quote Christopher Olivola saying)

------
rmason
I rarely eat chocolate. But I admit to having been curious when I found out
that CNN travel guy Anthony Bourdain and his NY chef friend Eric Ripert came
out with their Good and Evil bar.

Its made from rare Peruvian Pure Nacional dark chocolate. Despite what I
thought was an outrageous price of $12.95 it sells out almost immediately.
Perhaps it's a bargain after all?

------
orionblastar
It is all in the marketing like name brands and generics.

I cut chocolate out of my diet for health reasons. I used to buy it 50 percent
off after each holiday but gave up on that as well. I'm trying Apple Sauce
instead and other healthy alternatives. I am trying to give up soda as well.

------
BenjiWiebe
The most expensive chocolate I've bought were $2 truffles. I like chocolate,
but personally paying <$5 for a chocolate bar I can still get chocolate that,
to me, seems really good.

I guess I'm not the target demographic.

------
darkhorn
First taste of chocolate in Ivory Coast - vpro Metropolis
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEN4hcZutO0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEN4hcZutO0)

------
v1n337
The Youtube channel 'Worth It UK' reviewed this recently.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFvL4HLV1vw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFvL4HLV1vw)

------
reillyse
I really feel that any article that quotes the founding story of a
startup/company/product is just being plain lazy and it's an instant turn off
for me.

------
cacaospot
if anyone is interested in a more thorough review of the bar and the various
the aspects of aging and how they affect the flavor and aromas here's a link
to our guide for premium chocolate

[https://www.c-spot.com/chocolate-census/daily-
review/?pid=24...](https://www.c-spot.com/chocolate-census/daily-
review/?pid=2480)

------
IntronExon
So in short, you sell it by flattering the supposed palette of the mark
outrageously, exclusively price it, and include a backstory. It’s the the
chocolate bar for people who want to know the name of the chicken they’re
about to eat. It’s the candy for people who think that vodka tastes better out
of a $200 bottle.

In short, status signaling people with more money than sense.

~~~
lisper
I was a vodka skeptic, but my wife can consistently pick her favorite (Ketel
One) out of a lineup in a blind tasting. Even I can tell the difference
between, say, Ciroc and Smirnov. So there really are differences that matter,
though I agree with you that at the high end it's more marketing than quality.
(My wife and I both agree that, for example, Patron is really bad.)

Obchocolate: my favorite chocolate used to be Lindt Mocha. Now it's Dove Dark.

~~~
IntronExon
I agree with what you’re saying about vodka, and I think as with many products
a real range of quality exists, but that all goes out the window when you
reach “prestige pricing” points. So yeah, Ketel One is smooth and delicious,
and good wine is rarely up for $5 a box. By the same token I’m skeptical that
most $50 dollar wines are not on par with $500 wines.

~~~
lazerpants
In my experience, there are everyday wines ($15-30), very good wines that
deserve some thought and a well paired meal ($50-150), and oenophile wines
that are really, totally amazing, ($250+), but to enjoy the last category you
need to know wines very well, and know exactly what you enjoy in a wine (or
you'll be disappointed by buying the wrong one).

Plus, most bottles of wine that are $250+ have some age on them, so you're
really paying a premium for provenance too. The same wine can sell for double
the price if it's still in the crate, has original paperwork, and has a
verifiable storage history in appropriate conditions.

~~~
lisper
This is key: more expensive != better. It just means that it happens to be
something fairly rare that someone somewhere with more money than sense likes
enough to be willing to pay a ridiculous amount for. That person doesn't have
to be you.

------
timvisee
Ask Apple.

