
Sending a Weather Balloon to Space - hartleybrody
http://blog.hartleybrody.com/in-space/
======
jgrahamc
Argh. As someone who's done this and is actively involved in the UKHAS
(<http://ukhas.org.uk/>) this article annoys me. People have been doing this
stuff for years, and here we have someone who seems to just not have bothered
to learn about how to track a balloon using amateur radio, GPS altitude/speed
limits, best practices in terms of the parachute and balloon rigging, and most
importantly this article does not once mention the FAA.

There's no indication that he was aware of FAA regulations (FAA Part 101) on
this type of launch. So, no consideration of payload weight, density, ...

Also, he does appear to have use a trajectory predictor but only to figure out
where he was going to get his balloon back and not for predicting the path
through restricted airspace etc.

There's a large community of people out there in the UK and US who are happy
to help people get started doing this sort of thing. Please shout out for
assistance!

[http://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude...](http://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning)

~~~
belorn
Permission to launch a simple balloon with a camera. I mean it sound so
simple, but then you might also be required to seek permission for filming if
its done over a residential area. Add that with radio regulations if you are
using any kind of receiver, and there might be 3 or more agencies one would
need to get permissions for a simple launch.

The 'blanket' permission groups like UKHAS is however nice (if one live in the
UK), and there is a loot to learn by the people there. That said, ignoring the
regulations is sometimes a viable option.

~~~
jgrahamc
So, is your point that permissions might be a nuisance so ignore them? FAA
regulations exist to help ensure safe interaction between aircraft; radio
regulations in part exist to minimize interference. Just ignoring them seems
like a bad idea to me.

Note that UKHAS is not a 'blanket' permission group. The society exists to
promote the hobby and make sure it is safe. We don't provide permission to
anyone, that's up to the individual.

~~~
belorn
I was referring to the 2 main sites in Cambridgeshire which the website talked
about, as it says you won't need to get your own permission for launching.

As for risk to air crafts, I would love to see some numbers. Whats the
historical reason behind allowing max 2m sized balloons with a weight of 2kg,
but an unmanned aircraft with the wingspan of 3m is totally fine (so long its
under 20kg). What's the risk/effects of a balloon hitting a aircraft, and is
it larger than say, the risk one has from meteors? I am all for regulations
when it regulates a industry or when someone is pushing the boundaries on what
is safe (like dropping a car Mythbuster style). However, the current
regulations looks to me at least as a bit random and inconsistent (and ...
dated).

Radio interference. wow, that's an old concept :). I suppose the FCC is
undergoing some renewing and is slowly releasing frequencies and lowering the
margins between them. The technology of handling radio interference has
advanced quite a bit since the ww2/cold war where so much of the radio
regulations was created, and the regulation is slowly moving forward. Know
perfectly well that I will upset every licensed amateur radio operator out
there, but my advice is still to take that regulation with a pinch of salt.

I guess it all depend on the details of what one do, the effect the law might
have, and how much common sense one apply. What the guy did however does not
sound as something that should require government permission.

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jlgreco
Consumer GPS devices do not work above 18 km, so unfortunately even without
the cell reception limitations he would not have been able to track the
balloon during it's entire voyage. (They also don't work when travelling
faster than 1000 mph. I believe the limitations are to prevent consumer GPS
hardware from being used in things like missiles.)

I hope he manages to recover everything alright.

~~~
ChuckMcM
Yes, that was what I was thinking, over altitude, GPS shuts off. Also I was
wondering if freezing the crap out of the batteries might affect their overall
charge capacity.

Reading the antics of the folks over that theregister.co.uk and their high
altitude experiments (granted its mostly a lot of puns around LOHAN) what
struck me was they proceed very methodically in their planning. A reasonable
guide for anyone wanted to get into the space balloon business I think.

~~~
eddie_the_head
Are these COCOM limitations based in the hardware or software of the GPS
devices by the manufacturers? If it's in the software, are there not free and
opensource firmwares out there that can go around such limitations?

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vgurgov
Its truly amazing to see how far few hundred bucks can get you this days, but
can we please stop calling these stratosphere launches 'sending to space'? Is
it just me or 'sending balloon to space' sounds like joke?

Seems launching another one(or even few) could be cheaper than searching for
this one...

~~~
ChuckMcM
Well there is the convention that space starts at 100km up [1] but the
atmosphere extends much higher just getting thinner and thinner. For a lot of
people space starts when the sky is black during the 'day time' and you can
see the curvature of the Earth, but of course that occurs much sooner, like
31km (~100,000') Balloons can reach 100,000' (Baumgartner jumped from 125,000'
for example)

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A1rm%C3%A1n_line>

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tzs
Here's a list of some GPS modules that correctly implement the 18 km altitude,
515 m/s speed restriction using a logical AND, not a logical OR, and so are
useful for high altitude ballooning: <http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:gps_modules>

Here's another: <http://www.byonics.com/tinytrak/gps.php>

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beforebeta
just curious, is it legal to just send a balloon up in the air? considering
there are so many different kinds of planes flying around, wouldn't you need
clearance from the FAA or other regulatory authorities before doing this?

~~~
jlgreco
It seems if you keep the payload under 6 pounds, and abide by a few other
limitations, free balloons are a-okay as far as the FAA is concerned.

<http://www.chem.hawaii.edu/uham/part101.html>

~~~
plantain
Read a little closer...

(a) No person may operate an unmanned free balloon unless-

    
    
         (1) It is equipped with at least two payload cut-down systems or
         devices that operate independently of each other;
         
         (2) At least two methods, systems, devices, or combinations
         thereof, that function independently of each other, are employed
         for terminating the flight of the balloon envelope; and
         
         (3) The balloon envelope is equipped with a radar reflective
         device(s) or material that will present an echo to surface radar
         operating in the 200 MHz to 2700 MHz frequency range.

<snip>

    
    
          (a) Prelaunch notice : Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this
         section, no person may operate an unmanned free balloon unless,
         within 6 to 24 hours before beginning the operation, he gives the
         following information to the FAA ATC facility that is nearest to
         the place of intended operation:
         (a) Each person operating an unmanned free balloon shall:
    
         (1) Unless ATC requires otherwise, monitor the course of the
         balloon and record its position at least every two hours; and
         
         (2) Forward any balloon position reports requested by ATC.

~~~
elemeno
That only applies if the criteria in 101.1.a.4 are met:

    
    
      (4) Except as provided for in 101.7, any unmanned free balloon
     that-
         
         (i) Carries a payload package that weighs more than four pounds and
         has a weight/size ratio of more than three ounces per square inch
         on any surface of the package, determined by dividing the total
         weight in ounces of the payload package by the area in square
         inches of its smallest surface;
         
         (ii) Carries a payload package that weighs more than six pounds;
         
         (iii) Carries a payload, of two or more packages, that weighs more
         than 12 pounds; or
         
         (iv) Uses a rope or other device for suspension of the payload that
         requires an impact force of more than 50 pounds to separate the
         suspended payload from the balloon.
         

As long as those don't apply to you, you're pretty much good to go. I'd
imagine that they're criteria where, should your ballon hit anything, it
wouldn't cause any damage.

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tomkinstinch
The amateur radio club at my _alma mater_ launched a high altitude balloon
last year, and used an APRS transmitter to send back coordinates:

<http://www.collegearc.com/arhab/index.php>

Their flickr page has a bunch of pics:
[http://www.flickr.com/photos/62621941@N02/sets/7215762667487...](http://www.flickr.com/photos/62621941@N02/sets/72157626674875178/)

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rabidonrails
Wish I could help. I'll be looking for updates to this story with fingers
crossed on capturing that meteor shower!

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wowwtf
Wow... How would you feel if someone would send a balloon your way next time
you board a plane?

