
You gotta be rich to own a cheap car - passive
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/02/no-fixed-abode-gotta-rich-cheap-car/
======
geebee
I'm twice bitten, once shy on used cars.

I know plenty of people who are reasonably frugal who still go for the new
car, though I think they view it as more of a slightly risk-averse heuristic
than an optimal decision. I think most of them recognize that with planning,
effort, and a bit (but not a ton) of luck, they probably would do better used.

The risk averse heuristic goes like this: identify a car with a reputation for
value, purchase under a buyer's plan, take very good care of itfor the useful
life of the car. These aren't the people who show up in a shiny new car every
few years - they often keep the car for 15 years or more.

Like I said, it's a bit risk and effort averse, since with a lot of research,
careful evaluation (including a mechanic inspection), and a bit of luck (more
the absence of bad luck), you can definitely beat the above strategy by going
used. It's a lot of effort, though. Personally, I did all the things you're
supposed to do, and still ended up with lots of $$ repair bills, so I'm no
longer interested in used cars. I understand that I got unlucky, but I'm just
done.

I suppose I'm also particularly convinced by the argument that people
generally don't sell good used cars, since I'm one of those people who hangs
onto a car until it costs me more to own it than replace it.

~~~
driverdan
Buying a one or two year old car is far better than buying new. The first few
years of depreciation are the worst and if the car is a lemon you'll generally
know in the first year.

~~~
theandrewbailey
Anyone ever buy a car off a car rental place (Enterprise, Budget, etc.)? They
continually buy new cars, so they always have old inventory to sell, and they
keep their cars in good condition. It seems that you might avoid both lemons
and the immediate deprecation that way, but have a 'almost' new car.

~~~
smackfu
Imagine if you went to buy a used car from Craigslist:

Q: Who drove this car?

A: Oh, whatever random people wanted to pay me money.

Q: What kind of maintenance did you do?

A: The bare minimum to get it to last a year.

Q: What options did you get?

A: The lowest ones the manufacturer would sell us.

Does that appeal?

~~~
johnsonmkj
Actually you can pretty much guarantee optimal maintenance, because all cars
are on a schedule and regulated by the corporate office. Everything else is
spot on. You'd be surprised about the % of used cars starting in a rental
fleet, even if they aren't sold by those companies directly.

~~~
smackfu
True, but on a new car with relatively low mileage, I would think maintenance
is essentially oil changes and tire inflation, and maybe brakes if the car is
really abused.

------
andkon
There's a reason that I have always loved reading TTAC and will always
continue to read it. These guys are thoughtful and interesting to a degree
that is only rivalled by how insular and myopic most car people are. They
taught teenaged me a lot of lessons about critical thinking by laying it on
top of one of my favourite topics - cars.

Enough of a love letter - I agree with the point. There's a similar thing that
happens with house owners: owning a whole bunch of tools and being able to fix
your own stuff is a privilege that middle class people enjoy, but poor people
do not. You have to pay for the ability to plan for contingencies, and if you
can barely afford to pay for your living expenses, you definitely can't afford
to pay for the $50 battery charger, or the $30 socket set, or the time and
energy required to learn all this stuff in the first place and put it into
action when you need it done.

~~~
gaius
It's the same with the tastefully minimalist lifestyle - being able to say
"I'll just buy (another) one of those if I need it" and throwing something
perfectly good out, is a privilege of the rich. It takes money to own very
little.

------
sliverstorm
_Last but not least, I had the ability to just let the car sit. I didn’t need
it for anything. It wasn’t the way I was going to make my rent money that
month, it wasn’t the way I was going to get my child to the hospital. It was
just a car that I was driving for fun. And that’s the biggest kind of
Privilege! I can imagine._

Wherein we arrive at a key point of strategy in cheap vehicles.

Have two.

I spent half of college riding a pair of $500 motorcycles. On any given day
there was a good chance one was broken with the engine sitting on my driveway-
but I never once missed a day of class, thanks to redundancy.

Of course that did mean I had to invest $1,000 into vehicles instead of $500.
_Privilege!_ , I suppose, but a smaller one.

 _Bonus: the second vehicle takes you to Autozone when you are halfway through
a rebuild on the first and discover you are missing your 12mm socket and six
bolts_

~~~
sejje
Many parts stores deliver, fwiw.

I got a part in 20 minutes this past weekend for no upcharge, delivered to my
house. And I didn't need it--my car was operable. Just a heater control valve.

------
kabouseng
This was a fun read and I can relate, I own a Toyota with over 300k km's on
the clock. At 160k the timing belt snapped and bent the valves. Luckily I
could afford to take a week off, buy a second hand imported enjin, have a dad
who is a mechanical engineer, and learn swap the enjin myself. Then take a
second week off work because the new enjin had timing issues which I finally
pinpointed to a pirated camshaft pulley where the outer ring of the part would
slip.

Long story short, my car, even with all the troubles is by far cheaper than
any other option, but just like the article states, you have to have certain
"privileges" to make it work.

~~~
zo1
Could the timing belt issue have been avoided if it was replaced? Or would you
say it was something else that _caused_ it to break, and would have happened
regardless?

~~~
eosrei
Timing belts are 100-120k mile maintenance parts depending on the vehicle.
Expect bent valves if you don't replace them at the recommended interval. My
car is on it's third.

~~~
zo1
So if you were to replace them at the 80% mark of those miles... Then you
should be very unlikely to have them snap on you unexpectedly?

~~~
kabouseng
No it doesn't work like that, statistics etc. As with any fixed interval
maintenance part there is some chance that the part can fail before being
serviced. As per my example, the timing belt was replaced at 100k, so the new
belt failed at 60k, just bad luck.

Fixed interval maintenance is used for parts with a tight normal distribution
when failure occurs and where you can't predict the failure before hand, or it
is difficult to measure / predict. Timing belts fits this use case.

------
Zigurd
Meh. Older luxury cars can be great cheap cars for the kids, as long as you
avoid extreme high mileage, known expensive parts issues, and dubious service
records. CARFAX is useful: You get to see service records. I would pick a
10-15 year old Benz with 100k miles (where the prices come down quickly)
that's been dealer-serviced, over a Subaru or Volvo. Any decent car should go
200k miles before it becomes a money sink, and Lexus, BMW, and Benz engines
should run to 300k miles before anything expensive wears out. Automatic
transmissions and rev-limiters make it hard to destroy an engine through
abuse. Non-turbo 6 and 8 cylinder luxury car engines have led an easy life.

The cars they are talking about are either semi-exotic high performance models
that probably have been whipped, or super-high-mileage. That's called having a
hobby.

~~~
AmVess
Used German cars are among the biggest money sinks on the planet aside from
unaffordable exotics. Out of dozens of friends and dozens and dozens of Euro
cars, not a single person has had an inexpensive to repair or own
BMW/Mercedes/Audi/SAAB...new or used. And these are cared for vehicles, not
rolling wrecks or the result of careless owners.

My 95k Ford had 1 repair in the years that I owned it (a rarity for Ford)...a
thermostat. My 70k miles Honda has had $0 in repairs since 2006.

German luxury cars only make sense if leased from new (which 70% of them are).
Used? Run far away, and run fast.

~~~
kw71
You can make it a good value if you are a diehard car hobbyist, but I concede
that this is not most people.

I am still holding onto a 21 year old mid-luxury BMW. I have spent countless
hours working on it and probably have $2000 in parts in it (I have owned it
for 9 years.) I am grateful that I have the free time, collection of tools and
documentation, know some tricks about buying parts, and can figure out
machines. I feel that I have obtained a great value considering what it will
cost to get a newer car, in similar state of repair, that gives a similar
experience driving. I would not enjoy most other car makes.

People buy these German cars for some reason, and the reason is not ever to
have a maintenance free automobile, or to never spend time or money fixing the
car. You are going to expend some resources one way or another, but it does
not have to be mostly money.

------
normloman
I come from a poor family, and I'm no rich guy now. My family has always owned
used cars. My current used car has saved me a ton of money, and as long as I
maintain it, it will last a very long time. And by no means am I some great
mechanic. I know how to change the filters, I get jiffy lube to change my oil,
and thats it.

So buying a used car can make a lot of sense. Of course, I'm not buying a used
Maserati. That's just stupid.

~~~
freehunter
He didn't write about buying used card. In fact, he even made a point about
buying not-that-old Civics, because there is no risk to owning a used Civic.
But changing your oil and filters won't help you when the CV joint snaps going
down the road (and it's _going_ to happen someday), or when the alternator
seizes up, or when the starter won't turn over, or when the timing belt snaps
without warning.

All of those things can happen on an older vehicle without a moment's notice,
and besides the timing belt, none of them are commonly found on a scheduled
maintenance calendar. Changing your oil only helps until that odometer rolls
over 250k (for a reliable car) or even 90k (for a cheap econobox).

The point isn't "don't buy a used car", it's "don't listen to articles saying
you should buy a car with a million miles for $1000".

~~~
jacquesm
CV joints 'snap' when they have been left without lube or have been driven
_way_ past their lifespan (normally the life of the vehicle but for smaller
cars they are fragile enough that it is not rare to see them go).

One major reason for CV joint problems is the CV joint boot tearing allowing
road grime in and grease out of the joint (they warm up enough that the lube
becomes fluid and of course there is all the swirling which will happily empty
a fully greased up CV joint in a few hundred kilometers). So you inspect those
periodically and replace them when they have a large enough number of miles on
them. Maintenance is _everything_ with things that you use every day and that
you depend on. It's like technical debt in software: you can ignore it for a
bit but then you end up paying double or worse.

A CV joint is a wear part itself too, so if it has done its duty you replace
it. (Not all that hard, but definitely not 'can barely replace a tire'
territory.)

~~~
freehunter
I looked at the manual on my Fiat and my Silverado, neither of them recommend
checking the CV boot for damage as part of routine maintenance. And I say that
with 90% certainty that the CV joint on my Silverado (357,000 miles) is about
to fail with the boot still intact. I can't come up with any other reason why
the passenger side wheel has an inch or so of play side to side when it's
jacked up, or why it clunks when I turn left. From the outside, the boot is in
perfect shape.

(for those commenting on the CV joint thing, this is what I was told by two
licensed mechanics after they had inspected it. Thank you for prompting me to
get another opinion though).

Everything in your car, you can say "if it has done its duty, you replace it".
Sometimes that includes the entire car. That Silverado is still on it's
original engine. Has that done it's duty? How would I know when I should
replace the engine? The frame also has 357k miles on it. I know from
inspecting it that it's rotted in certain spots. Has it done its duty?

You and I know how to inspect various parts of the car to see how much wear
they have. Not everyone can. A CV joint might clunk or grind before it fails.
A timing belt won't give you that luxury.

~~~
MertsA
A CV joint ideally does not transmit any force other than torque on the axle,
if there is a lot of play in the wheel from side to side you really need to
replace that ball joint or control arm or whatever suspension component is
broken. Your car is currently dangerous to drive, if that joint fails
completely at speed you will lose all control over the orientation of that
wheel and there's a good chance it will want to immediately turn sideways. If
the side to side play is at the 3 and 9 o'clock position then your tie rod end
has failed, if it's at the 12 and 6 o'clock position then it's probably a ball
joint.

But back to the topic at hand, every repair manual I have seen has listed
inspecting CV joint boots for tears every so often.

~~~
freehunter
It's interesting that you say that, I've actually had it at two mechanics to
get their opinion. I bought it about 400 miles from where I live, so I had to
drive it back. I wanted to make sure it was safe to make the drive. Both of
them said "it's the CV joint, but as long as it's not in 4WD, you're fine".
When I jack it up, I can move the top of the wheel side to side like wiggling
a loose tooth. So on that judgment, I drove it 400 miles clunking along.

But back to the topic at hand, repair manuals are different from the manual
you get included with the car.

~~~
jacquesm
You're making the mistake of assuming that CV joints are 'customer
inspectable', they are not, but the garage has it in their maintenance
schedule (including scheduled replacements), so as long as you want the car to
pass 'MOT' or whatever it is called or if it is still in scheduled maintenance
with a dealer they'll be taken care of every so often and inspected at least
once every year.

That doesn't mean you can't do it yourself, just that that is not usual.

------
bb0wn
Just bought my first new car in November. I tried really hard to get a used
car, but honestly, it just didn't make any sense -- the cost of financing was
much higher, and the cost of the vehicle itself was nearly as much as a brand
new model year (this was the case for both the '15 Toyota Corolla and '15
Honda Civic, and their '11 to '13 model year used counterparts.) This doesn't
even touch on how difficult it was to find a decent used car in the first
place.

I guess if you're comfortable with dropping $10k in cash for a decent used
car, then you'd save money, but when/if you can finance a new car for very low
interest rates, why tie up your liquid cash like that?

> For those families, a new-car payment is a burden — but it’s one they can
> predict and live with. It sucks to “throw away” $300 or $400 every month,
> but it’s never a surprise and in exchange they have freedom from surprises.

How exactly is paying $300-$400 monthly for a new car "throw away" money? It's
going towards the ownership of a useful piece of property. Maybe the author is
talking about leasing? I don't know.

~~~
ssharp
Low interest rates on new cars are a smoke and mirrors game. If you weren't
getting low interest rates, you'd be getting a better cash price. I bought a
used car earlier this year and financed it at 3%. I'll pay around $1500 in
interest. I save several times that in depreciation, and even new with 0%
interest, the price still would have been close to that $1500 more.

Also, the decision isn't necessarily between brand new car and a 10k used car.
If you're buying a two or three year-old car, it's probably over 10k.

~~~
smackfu
> If you weren't getting low interest rates, you'd be getting a better cash
> price.

Not necessarily. If dealers get a kickback on the financing, they can actually
charge less for a financed car then a cash one.

~~~
ssharp
That can be true, but if you're not getting a subsidized interest rate, the
difference in interest you'll pay on a new car vs. a used car isn't big at
all. Not enough to make up for depreciation.

This is also a good tip -- if you go into buying a new or used car with
financing lined up, you can tell the dealer that, but tell them you'll go with
them if they can give you a similar rate because you might get a better price.

------
IshKebab
This lead me to:

[http://www.fancyparking.com/](http://www.fancyparking.com/)

~~~
freehunter
Is it just pictures of people who backed into a parking spot? The gallery
requires Flash, so I haven't seen it.

There are actually some places around here that have signs explicitly
disallowing backing into a parking space for one reason or another. Anyway, I
was taught in drivers training (in the US) that if you are able to pull
through a parking space so the front of your car is parked towards the road,
you should. Not sure how common that message is.

~~~
Brian-Puccio
> I was taught in drivers training (in the US) that if you are able to pull
> through a parking space so the front of your car is parked towards the road,
> you should.

My girlfriend and I call that "pulling through" and fist-bump with excitement
when we can pull through a parking spot into another so the car's front faces
the path of travel eliminating the need to back out. (Almost all parking by us
is parallel parking on the street, so it isn't often.)

~~~
freehunter
When I was in driver's training, the instructor (and the book) called it "the
ideal parking spot".

------
rhino369
I found this piece to be pretty much garbage. OMG only rich people can get a
ride from their wife!!!!

The article should have been: You gotta be a mechanic to own a cheap
luxury/sports car.

~~~
wernercd
It was more than just "being a mechanic".

It's

    
    
      * being a mechanic (so you don't have to pay $500 for a $200 job).  
      * having a job with flexible hours (This happens on the way to McJob and your late? McBye Bye.)   
      * having someone else dependable with a flexible job (Friday night and everyone know you know is working at McJobs?)
      * having someone to take care of your kids so the kid is at home/daycare/babysitters and not freezing in your car 
      * having spare money so the choice isn't food vs radiator
      * being able to easily adjust to different circumstances.
    

Not everyone can lose a car and adjust with minimal effort. car breaks down
and you expect McJob holder to be able to afford another car? thousand(s) for
fix? downpayment on a replacment in short order?

All of this revolves around the fact that he's in a good place, and able to
count his blessings. If all you got out of this is "you gotta be a mechanic"
then you need to re-read it.

~~~
jerf
“The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they
managed to spend less money.

"Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus
allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an
affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then
leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those
were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so
thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the
feel of the cobbles.

"But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could
afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry
in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would
have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have
wet feet.

"This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic
unfairness.” - Terry Pratchett, Men At Arms: The Play
[http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/72745-the-reason-that-the-
ri...](http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/72745-the-reason-that-the-rich-were-so-
rich-vimes-reasoned)

~~~
wernercd
I'll second that in a heartbeat.

I have a good friend that always struggled with money - rent, food, you name
it... yet somehow has an expensive car with expensive insurance. He makes 1/2
what I do (or less) yet somehow drives a car worth 2/3x more than what I drive
(just got a new used 2011 Honda Civic).

Generally you become, and stay, a millionaire by saving money. It's why so
many people can win Millions in the Lottery and be broke a few years later.
Getting money is only the first part. The second part is keeping it.

~~~
pound
Even saving a lot, not everyone has sufficient income for that in a first
place (even considering saving for a long time).

------
protomyth
First, if you have no mechanical inclination and don't have mechanical
friends, then used cars are problematic. Although you probably be in worse
shape buying a new car also. The second problem now is an awfully lot of used
cars and used car parts got trashed by the "cash for clunkers" program. I can
think of few worse government programs to put the boot to working folks then
that program.

Its all risk management. Not much different from the buy vs build in
computing. Sadly, mechanical training is a dying skill and the risk is much
higher.

My co-worker just bought a used Subaru for $1,000 and other than needing a
belt replacement ($60 and about a hour of time), it was in really good shape.
He knows how to look at a car, so all good.

Always, always, check the timing belt (or chain) and oil pump on old vehicles.
That repair will kill you.

~~~
driverdan
I don't understand how someone can drive but not know basic car maintenance,
especially if you can only afford an older used car and depend on it.

I don't mean everyone should know how to replace a clutch but you should know
the basic wear components (filters, belts, lights, brakes, etc) and how to
diagnose and replace them. On most cars these are fairly simple (except on
some newer cars that make them overly complex).

This is a rule I feel should be applied to your entire life. At a bare minimum
you should understand the basics about things you use on a daily basis.
Computers, cars, homes, etc.

~~~
mschuster91
> I don't mean everyone should know how to replace a clutch but you should
> know the basic wear components (filters, belts, lights, brakes, etc) and how
> to diagnose and replace them.

F..k Renault. Lights on these (especially Laguna front lights) tend to be an
adventure to replace. Or every car with the high-voltage Xenon gas lamps.

I was pretty happy with my VW T4, I could tear that car down and reassemble
without any problem. With modern cars, filled with dozens of computers, not
so. And to make things worse, once one of the computers or sensors breaks or
has issues, you'll need OBD diagnosis computers or even specialized computers
to diagnose the problem or repair it.

That's stuff for expensive maintenance shops, while I just needed a small
garage and a couple of basic tools for the T4 (okay, and a motor crane for
lifting out the engine).

~~~
driverdan
Yup, that's why I said except on some newer cars. Headlights were what I was
thinking about too. Even some non-HID headlights have become a real pain to
replace.

~~~
mschuster91
The problem with the headlights is crash resistance.

Old(er) cars had plenty of space available in the engine room because the
"air" was used to absorb impact in crash situations.

New materials/manufacturing processes allow for entire removal of "dead
space", with more and more components for "luxury" stuff (luxury compared with
an old car, like all-side radar, active parking assistants, multi-zone AC,...)
squeezed in every cubic centimetre of the car.

And so, no more space is left for your hands when you try to replace a f...ing
4mm wide lamp. Unless you disassemble the container for the window washing
fluid, unmount the brake fluid container and bend two multi-wires (Renault
Laguna, right-front lamp assembly).

------
O____________O
This is a bit too black and white.

The numerous Spanish-speaking men I saw at Autozone at around 10pm on Arizona
(the only place I've lived where parts stores were open until 11pm) were good
counterpoints[1].

The reality is that it comes down to some combination of know-how, discipline
(nobody _wants_ to change an alternator at midnight), resourcefulness, and
innumerable other factors. The example in the article -- a failing radiator --
has workarounds that would allow someone to nurse it to and from work. An
overworked, single mother of three is pretty unlikely to know the workaround.

That said, by all means, buy the newest car you can afford, unless you're
specifically seeking a challenge.

[1] I noticed that, somewhat ironically, the people in the poorer
neighborhoods around Phoenix had the 'privilege' of more parts stores open
later.

~~~
jethro_tell
You also have to amortize tools over multiple cars.

------
anythingian
Spending $300 - $400 dollars a month with the idea that you wont have
surprises in terms of your 'brand new' transportation is a fallacy. I've seen
new cars back in the dealership often times more frequently than used cars
with 100k on the clock. Although you may not have to 'pay' for the repairs it
is still the inconvenience that you'll have associated with a rental car and
the time lost.

As another commenter pointed out, these guys posses a skill, it's not just
about free time. And the skill can be acquired or bought just like most other
skills. Some basic education on how to buy a used car and what to look for can
save you big $$$, I wrote about how I pick up sub $5000 cars and why
financially it almost never makes sense to buy a new car here:
[http://www.tropicalmba.com/entrepreneurmobile/](http://www.tropicalmba.com/entrepreneurmobile/)

Most cars have a sweet spot in terms of maintenance cost and depreciation. You
don't have to go down to the $5000 if you aren't comfortable there. Problem is
however that comfort for most uneducated used car buyers is relative and
mostly not related to the actual condition of the vehicle. Most people think
newer is more reliable. While in many instances that can be the case, IMO it
certainly doesn't justify the price that comes with it.

For many buyers a good window to consider is 2-6 years old. The vehicle will
still be going through it's depreciation cycle (so you will be paying for
that) but will generally have somewhere between 20-100k miles on it. In most
modern vehicles you probably won't have to repair anything major during a 2-4
year ownership period depending on where your car is in the cycle.

It's a good idea to have an ownership timeline for your purchase. I personally
like to drive something different every year or two. I know most people like
to set it and forget it. Either way, having a plan for ownership length is an
important part of the equation and can help you to factor depreciation and
mitigating risk.

Finally. The Japanese and Germans still build the best vehicles unless you
want a truck. It's very unpatriotic but save yourself the headache and don't
buy an american car. It's really easy to try and argue this one until you try
and remember the last time you saw a mid- nineties Ford Taurus on the road.
Same can't be said for a Civic.. The resale prices will corroborate here as
well, you may be tempted to jump into a $6000 2008 Chevy Malibu... it's a
trap! Poor build quality and low resale potential make these very bad choices.

------
mncolinlee
I know a number of friends who hear the sticker price and think my decision to
acquire a Nissan LEAF electric car is an expensive and ridiculous luxury.
They're both wrong and right for the same reasons the OP's friend is wrong and
right.

At the time I bought my car, one study had shown the LEAF as the second
cheapest total cost of ownership of all US-sold automobiles after the Toyota
Yaris. My own research showed their electric cost assumptions didn't factor in
off-peak rates at one-third of normal costs. Even with today's low gas prices,
some new electric cars' TCOs can compare favorably against their gas
competitors.

On the other hand, privilege has to factor in. Range anxiety doesn't matter if
you have money. I've never run out of electricity and I can afford to be late
to appointments if needed. I can afford the uncertainty of being an early
adopter in a cold weather state with fewer chargers because I have
alternatives available if needed.

Electric cars will become a no-brainer for cost sensitive people in future as
ranges increase and used ones become more available. However, my decision only
makes sense with some level of privilege.

------
grecy
Give me a break.

I've never bought a new car in my life and never intend to.

My current daily is a 1992 Subaru Loyale that I bought for $450. It has
selectable 4x4, gets amazing mileage on the highway (>35mpg) and has lived
through many Yukon winters. It starts nicely even below -40C/F. Being a wagon
it's an awesome road-trip car and the roof racks often have something on them.

It has a few clunks and rattles, and when something major dies I'll ditch it,
but at this point I've driven it over 50,000 kms so it owes me nothing.

Also in 2007 I bought a 7 year old Jeep Wrangler for $6,250. I then drove it
65,000kms (40k miles) from Alaska to Argentina and never had a single
mechanical problem. I sold it after the drive for $5k, so it only "cost" me
$1,250.

~~~
O____________O
_I then drove it 65,000kms (40k miles) from Alaska to Argentina_

That sounds interesting. Have you written about it anywhere?

~~~
grecy
[http://theroadchoseme.com](http://theroadchoseme.com)

If you're interested in traveling like that, checkout
[http://wikioverland.org](http://wikioverland.org)

------
vitd
I'm reminded of the song "$1000 Car" by the Bottlerockets. Here's a video:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsbJA9RM4Cc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsbJA9RM4Cc)

"Now you're the owner of a $2000 $1000 car"

~~~
mzs
Nice tune, thanks. I like to say, you can afford a $500-2K car if you can
afford another $500-2K car today. A buddy replied yesterday that then you have
two non-op cars ;) I agree with what the article and one comment says about
time and privilege, I'm lucky to have the other circumstances align so as to
be able to afford these cheap cars.

------
cheriot
So the problem with cheap cars is risk. Are there companies selling after
market warranties for these things? I'd be curious to compare a cheap car +
triple A + some form of insurance to a recently new car still under warranty.

~~~
SixSigma
We have them in the UK

[http://www.moneysupermarket.com/car-insurance/car-
warranty/](http://www.moneysupermarket.com/car-insurance/car-warranty/)

It is also $50 per year for vehicle rescue - they take you to a repair centre
of some sort.

For $100 per year they will take you to your UK destination.

[http://www.greenflag.com/](http://www.greenflag.com/)

~~~
aembleton
More like £18.90 ($30) with
[https://breakdown.rescuemycar.com/](https://breakdown.rescuemycar.com/)

I've used them and never had a problem.

Things might be a bit different in the UK because the annual MOT gives a good
indication that these schemes are going to be dealing with cars that have been
mechanically checked. For example my previous car (Renault Clio) failed a
couple of times due to the CV boot being torn. CV boot was mentioned in an
earlier thread.

More on the MOT:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOT_test](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOT_test)

------
lafar6502
Yep, a nice example for comparison. How many of you would buy an used car with
a million miles on the clock? Weren't anything with less miles available?
Consider the value depreciation of a new car, this will usually be several
hundred per month, add more insurance costs, costly servicing (because you
can't service it anywhere you want), add financing costs (loan or leasing) and
you'll see why everybody wants you to buy a new car. Ten year old car is not
really that old, come on, and most of the parts/systems are probably perfectly
allright.

------
lumberjack
No you don't.

New Toyota corolla: $16,000 2005 Toyota corolla: $4,000

I don't think there exists a scenario where you can end up outspending the
MSRP if you buy a used previous model. Say for example your absolute lemon has
chassis damage and needs to be scrapped (that's the absolute worst scenario).
You still have $12,000 with which to buy another used car. Say you spend a
whole week working on it to fix something catastrophic. I don't think anything
would take that long but anyway. How many people actually make $12,000 in a
week? Not many that need to save money on cars.

~~~
dangerlibrary
It's almost like you didn't read the article to discover that his point was
only tangentially related to the headline.

~~~
mahranch
Bingo. It's pretty common for people to comment without reading the link on
sites like reddit, but that was never the case here. Until recently, that is.

They see the title, then head right to the comment section to give their
"superior" opinion.

~~~
freehunter
When I came in here, there were three top-level comments and all of them were
variations on "I drive a late-model used version of a reliable car with
relatively low miles and it's never broken down!"

I would say more than half of the people commenting here either did not read
or did not absorb the message of the article.

------
te_platt
This is a great resource for when your teenager comes to you with terrible
eagerness - "Hey Dad, I found a truck online and it's only $1000. Will you
come look at it with me?".

------
pwthornton
The only person I know who has been able to own and enjoy cheap cars is my
friend who sells and fixes up cars. It's not just knowing how to fix up a car
that's important, it's also knowing what to look for when buying a used car.

------
peterwwillis
There is only one way buying a used car ever makes sense. If you have zero
credit, no-one to co-sign with you, thousands of dollars in spending cash,
find a perfectly maintained not-damaged low-mileage reliable formerly popular
car for 1/10th its original value, and do not depend on getting places in a
timely fashion.

I have owned about 7 used cars, so I consider myself an authority on bad
decisions when it comes to cars.

There is no way to cheat the gods of autos. If you want a luxury car, you will
forever pay luxury prices. If you want a fast car, it will break quickly. If
you want an inexpensive car, the only one worth buying will be the one you
want the least. Cheap, reliable, sexy: pick two.

Any used car you buy for $1,000 after tax tags & title, and it has no
problems, is a good purchase. But don't ever repair it. Use duct tape and
WD-40 and change the brakes, but never fix anything on it. When it finally
stops running [which will be in 6-12 months] go buy another car. You're still
paying less than for a new car.

Here are two fun stories. One about a modified sports car, and another about a
used luxury car.

\---

The 1993 Toyota MR2's chameleon paint job gleamed purple-blue-red-orange as I
walked around it to the underside of the engine, next to the trunk. The
mechanic showed me where the turbo needed to be mounted up, the oil ring seal
that had failed (causing turbo overheat and almost explosion) and the OEM
replacement they'd tried to order. Only this turbo (and maybe engine?) wasn't
OEM - not for America anyway. Apparently the old part had come from some
mystery shipment in Japan and installed by a mystery tuning shop in North
Carolina, and the mechanic had no idea what kind of oil seal to replace it
with.

Of course, I had another car to drive, because i'm a privileged 20-year-old IT
worker with cash to throw away on a ridiculous used purple sports car. So I
continued on to work with my other car(s) while I researched where to find a
replacement part. Finally I found it - thanks to a very helpful Toyota dealer
in Australia - and had it shipped over for a small fortune.

About a month after the initial failure and my little baby was purring like a
kitten once more.

\---

The 2004 Lexus IS300 had what you would call a "colorful history" of parts
failures.

Long ago the driver side speakers had stopped working and half the speedometer
lights had gone out. It had experienced no less than four water-pump-induced
radiator meltdowns, with miraculously no warping of the engine. The left rear
speed sensor had been replaced after the shreds of cheap drifting tires
wrapped itself around the rear axle and tore the wire away. The entire front
left suspension i'd replaced over the course of two weeks (at that time I
lived 30 minutes walking from my job, so no biggie) after bumping into a curb.

After the bumper cover was stolen in Baltimore I collected approximately half
it's value from insurance and never replaced it. After another curb-bump (due
to ice) and parts replaced by a shady mechanic, the left front speed sensor
suddenly stopped working, leaving the traction control disabled. The O2
sensors had long since thrown codes requiring their replacement, or possible
investigation of the catalytic converter [of which a replacement is $1,000,
one forked proprietary chain of three catalytic converts].

But the most pressing problem was more obvious.

The left front headlight had intermittently stopped working some years before
in the coldest periods of "Florida winter". It would eventually start working
again, so it was ignored until it finally stopped coming on at all; then the
headlight that was out would switch places, finally going back to the first.
Tried the usual fixes; replace the bulb, nothing. Get a new HID projector
(because luxury cars don't come with "stupid old bulbs"; that wouldn't be
luxurious), but still nothing. Fuses are all good. Final thought? Electrical
problem.

No big deal, right? Could be a mystery wiring problem. New wiring harness
cost? $1,000. Well screw going OEM, let's go to a junk yard. Oh... IS300s
never come into junk yards, do they? Ah huh... seems the parts are so
expensive and rare, people get paid to strip the parts and sell 'em on ebay
for near-OEM prices, without a guarantee.

So here I am, finally paid the _used_ car off after 7 years, in quite a state
of disrepair, with a value that is thousands of dollars less than the cost of
total repair of all the broken bits. All the rest of the problems can be
ignored, but the police stop you for a bad headlight. And then there's the
safety inspection.

I could have just bought a new car and had half this stuff warrantied, would
have been paid off sooner at lower interest rate, and would have been much
cheaper to replace had the badge been a large encircled "T" instead of a large
encircled "L". Because the same car sold in Japan by Toyota costs thousands
less.

~~~
worklogin
> There is only one way buying a used car ever makes sense.

When you have enough sense not to buy a new car!

I regret purchasing my new Mazda for $25k when I could fix my older SUV (like,
major, rejuvenating fixes) for $5k.

~~~
peterwwillis
You'd just end up fixing it again for another $5k, and another $5k, and
another. It adds up, in small amounts of time, labor and parts.

There is no used car fairy. You don't get to pay $5k for the equivalent of a
$25k car. Physics pretty much puts that to a stop by constantly degrading
every part in the car.

The whole point of "mileage" in buying used cars is not that a car is better
or worse at a given mileage, but that it's more and more and more likely to
fail. Each part has a guesstimated point at which it will fail, because all
the parts have defects. As your car gets older, practically every single part
fails. You end up replacing everything. Your old SUV will eventually cost you
as much as that new Mazda.

The hedged bet with a new car is that by the time you pay it off, you won't
have paid anything other than regular maintenance costs, and you can now buy
yet another new car. If you drive like a grandma or barely drive at all _and_
garage the car you can stretch this out for a long time. Most people are not
grandmas.

Leasing is a very sensible solution for most people because it combines
hassle-free maintenance-free car ownership with a promise for an always-
working car at a fixed [read: no surprises] price.

------
diydsp
> Tavarish and his friend are both skilled mechanics. [ ... ] Privilege!

Skill is not privilege. Skill is acquired through sweat, not conferred.

Of two unequally privileged people, one may attend mechanic school, but only
the ones who sweat will attain skill.

~~~
ccernaf
You're ignoring the systematic factors that lead to one person being able to
attain car-repairing skills over the other.

"Al, in fact, was a former Lamborghini tech. What’s that training worth? Do
most poor people have it?"

No one is denying that Al probably put in a lot of hard work, but that he was
able to get to that point is a part of privilege too.

~~~
diydsp
You seem to claim that privilege will give you skill. It will not. You need
sweat to gain skill.

Here is a quote from someone who actually became a Lamborghini tech[1]. It
supports my statement that sweat is more important than privilege in acquiring
skill, emphasis mine:

"i did need not go to any toher after school like audi etc. i got perfect
attendence and didnt have a grade under 94. i always went to another school at
night during my course in high performance engine building. _just work hard
and when you go to school work hard_. more than half the kids sat thier all
day talking about cars and didnt care about there grades. and the most
important thing you need luck. haha to be honest. i am a technician here on
the service side. you never know unless you try. every body told me i was nuts
cause _i sent about 60 resumes to every top dealer and performance shop that
had something to do with lambo and ferrari_ and all these great companys, and
i got it. _just work hard and dont give up_. my first day at work i got to
work on and drive the veyron. it was insane "

[1] [http://www.lamborghini-talk.com/vbforum/f4/how-become-
lambor...](http://www.lamborghini-talk.com/vbforum/f4/how-become-lamborghini-
technician-5790/)

~~~
ccernaf
I never claimed that you needed only privilege to gain skill, or that you
didn't need sweat to gain skill. What I said was that even those who work hard
were able to do so (able to work hard) because of some privilege that they
had.

~~~
diydsp
> "those who work hard were able to do so [...] because of some privilege they
> had."

Yes, this is where you are wrong. It _is_ possible to work hard without
starting from privilege. Try re-reading your statement in a week when you are
less attached to it and see what you think:

Working hard does _not_ require privilege.

Working hard is a choice every individual makes, every minute of the day.

It is possible to work hard with starting from privilege and then gain skill.

Skill is gained by hard work and is earned. It is not the result of privilege.

Skill is not the same as privilege. Skill is earned by sweat and can not be
granted.

Privilege can grant many advantages, but it can never confer skill.

Skill can only be earned.

------
jkot
That is how you make money on internet. Car broke down? Dress it up and write
an article.

In next level write about someone sooo rich, he does not even own the car.

~~~
m52go
What are you referring to?

Tavarish's blog is gold. Baruth's post is thoughtful commentary and
reflection.

None of it is click-bait.

~~~
jkot
I just don't get this guy. He is trying to thoughtfully mock some reflection,
but it just show him as an alien from different planet.

Yes, there are people who have to rely on $500 cars. Yes, cars sometimes broke
down, people have to walk, freeze whatever. And yes, you should do maintenance
even on cheap used cars. And yes, if you buy junk you should probably change
some critical parts.

And no, it is not a privilege to own this sort of car.

