
Want airline food? Take Amtrak - gok
https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/intercity/want-airline-food-take-amtrak/?RAchannel=home
======
scyclow
I took the Empire Builder a couple weeks ago, and the Lakeshore Limited +
California Zephyr last year. As much as I enjoyed the trips, I have to admit
that they longer lines are incredibly impractical. Amtrak is operating at a
huge loss per passenger ($32 on average)[1], and the prices aren't even _that_
much cheaper than flying. It's viable for people with more time than money,
but most of the passengers are just weirdos who enjoy wasting their time
taking the train cross-country in 2018 (like me).

In any case, I'm sorry to see them thinking about nixing the dining car, since
it was one of my favorite parts. The food is surprisingly good (if not over
priced), and it's a great way to meet random people from around the country.
Coming from the liberal New York tech-bubble, I definitely met a bunch of
people I wouldn't have otherwise had a chance to talk to.

But at least they're not getting rid of the observation car! Sitting in it
through the Rockies on the Zephyr was a great way to see that beautiful
stretch.

[1]
[https://www.downsizinggovernment.org/transportation/privatiz...](https://www.downsizinggovernment.org/transportation/privatizing-
amtrak)

~~~
tspike
I don't disagree with your comment, but the thing that often gets lost in
these discussions is that at least for the Empire Builder, people generally
aren't using it to go from Chicago to Portland or Seattle.

Sure, a flight from Chicago to Seattle would be much faster and cheaper. But
what about getting from Minot to Whitefish? Or Spokane to Wenatchee?

I personally use it 2-3 times a week to go between Bingen and Portland. Most
of the people I ride with eastbound are going to Pasco or Sandpoint or
Spokane, not Chicago.

~~~
cc439
Most of those trips appear to be under 3.5 hours each way... Why not drive
since it's likely faster and cheaper than the train?

~~~
xvedejas
That's just about the distance that I prefer to take Amtrak over driving or
flying (mostly I travel SF <-> Fresno). I can get work done, unlike when
driving, and I don't have to deal with all the pains of getting to the airport
early and going through security.

~~~
tehlike
Unsolicited advice: get yourself global entry.

~~~
JBlue42
Unsolicited advice: Not everyone is into sacrificing money to avoid bullshit
security theater that has been going on for 17 years.

Trains have the beauty of being able to go to the station, hop on the train,
hop off. No wait or lines. I've had great trips taking the subway to Union
Station then a train to San Diego. If trains were more affordable, widespread,
and faster, it'd probably help the US immensely.

~~~
tehlike
It may sound a bit arrogant, but global entry is 100$/5yrs, and TSA-pre is 80$
for similar amount of time.

If you are well-off to be using air transportation, it would be worth it.
Though, I might be agreeing with you on the utility of excessive security
check. As a foreign national, I can tell you that US requires 4x the security
checks in foreign airports in inbound flights to US.

------
huebnerob
I've taken the California Zephyr between Chicago and SF a couple times now,
it's a wonderful experience. 2 1/2 days of solitude from a world with
increasingly few remote corners.

If you're at all interested, I recommend riding soon. These admittedly
impractical long-distance routes are going to be the first to go when budget
cuts necessitate it.

~~~
ng12
Google say it takes 31h to drive between the two -- any idea why the Amtrak
takes twice that time?

~~~
niftich
If you're driving alone -- a reasonable assumption if you'd be in the market
for a train -- a 31-hour "Google Maps" roadtrip takes 3 days, assuming ~10
hours of "map-time" driving, followed by 6+ hours of civilized sleep.

The biggest constraint is "civilized" sleep, which is best had in a real bed
at a real hotel, whose locations are constrained by settlements and whose
typical availability hours begin at 15:00 local time and end at 11:00 local
time. When you're driving west and passing through timezones, you can gain an
extra hour that you can use for rest, while if you're driving east, you're
racing doubly against the clock, as you're losing an extra hour you could be
sleeping in a hotel at every timezone.

My longest "map-time" drive sprint (not including stops) between sleeps is 19
hours, which was filled with delirium towards the end, and I would never
recommend. I've done a 16-hour sprint to similar results, and have done
multiple ~12-hour sprints with no issues whatsoever. In my experience, 12
hours is around the upper limit of how much "map-time" distance one can
_safely_ drive between sleeps, especially if one is to perform a comparable
drive for three consecutive days.

~~~
ng12
Yes, but trains don't need to sleep. I'm not saying I'd recommend driving 31h
at a time, I'm saying I don't understand why that would be so much faster.

~~~
icelancer
Plenty of stops and built-in delays with overlaid industrial trains.
Additionally, you aren't going generally as fast as a car can, especially on
long stretches of rural highways.

------
reaperducer
Amtrak's current food is far superior to airline food. I'm speaking as a
regular Empire Builder, Sunset Limited, and Southwest Chief first class
passenger.

The only disappointment is that for some reason, I can't get food served in my
room on the Sunset Limited. No problems on the other routes.

It's kind of sad if Amtrak has to sacrifice freshly-prepared food for airline
heat-n-eat fare. But if it means an additional passenger car can be added, I'm
OK with it.

Full trains are a bigger problem than fresh food for Amtrak. (Though its
biggest problem is a shortage of trains and routes.)

~~~
SlowRobotAhead
Depends on where you are flying. ANA is my favorite airline (Japan), but
Lufthansa (Germany) has better food I think.

EVA (Asia) food isn’t great, but United and Delta are still worse imo.

~~~
wdewind
My experiences with ANA have been pretty fantastic. One time I was flying to
Japan and the plane were going to get on was hit by lightning as it landed.
Apparently the FAA then requires a mandatory rebooting and testing process
that takes 6 hours. ANA did three things here that really separated them from
other airlines:

1\. During the 6 hour wait, despite there being no news, I could walk up to
the counter and say "Hey just checking again to see if there's any update?"
and every single time, without fail, they were friendly, polite and apologetic
for the situation.

2\. When we got on board the captain got on the loud speaker and immediately
apologized profusely "for our incompetence." The plane was struck by
lightning, a _literal_ "act of god" and the captain still apologized to us.

3\. When we landed in Tokyo they handed us about $200 in cash to deal with
taking a cab since it was much later than expected arrival.

I just can't imagine this kind of treatment from an American airline, even on
international flights.

~~~
SlowRobotAhead
Thts cool, yea ANA seems to get it. I also appreciated the bidets on the plane
toilets :)

------
DeepYogurt
I can echo the Zephyr experience. Fantastic service. We were late, but I would
highly recommend it. If nothing else you can simply show up 10 minutes before
departure and get on. Then just get off a minute or two after your arrival.
You're treated like a human on a train.

------
dshep
I've only taken Amtrak once, from Portland to San Francisco. One of the best
parts was having dinner in the dining car. Two older ladies invited me to join
them because I was by myself and we had a nice chat while cruising through the
mountains. Sad to see it go, but I guess it was only a matter of time.

~~~
dahdum
I’ve done the same trip by myself, met so many interesting people in the
dining and observation cars.

------
crmd
I have a strange love for the Acela Express' cheeseburger. If I wasn't sitting
in a meeting right now I would go to Penn Station now and take a ride to
Newark for that burger.

~~~
vibrio
wow I'd have guess that was untouchable. Now I'm going to have to try it.
Since ShakeShack appeared in Penn station, that and a tall beer or two has
been my post-work Acela fare.

~~~
op00to
It’s microwaved. It’s not good.

------
jMyles
I have traveled Amtrak quite a lot - across the country on the Empire Builder,
Southwest Chief, and California Zephyr. And many other routes.

I think the food is usually decent - the veggie burger is reliably edible.

What I can say is terrible - and what has caused me to cease using Amtrak - is
the presence of the DEA.

In case you haven't experienced this, the DEA sometimes raids specific sleeper
cars at a station, demanding money, guns, or drugs. I had _no idea_ about this
until it happened to me.

It was absolutely, positively terrifying. I (and my partner) were repeatedly
threatened with violence if we didn't allow our bags to be searched (which of
course we didn't). Our 2.5 year old was screaming in terror the entire time.

They refused to tell of their names or let us see the numbers on their badges
- they only flashed their badges for 250ms at us.

We recorded them on both of our phones and a camera. At one point, a DEA agent
physically tried to swat my phone out of my hands.

They told us that we had been selected "randomly", but I found out soon after
that a colleague of mine, seven cars back, had also been "randomly" selected.
I later found out from an Amtrak employee that we were the only ones on the
train who had been raided and that it was never random - they research people
in advance and select who to raid. Apparently being involved in any way in
crypto-blockchain tech is enough to trigger such an event (indeed their
primary questioning to my colleague was about his hardware wallet, which they
took the majority of their time with him to inspect and photograph).

The Amtrak employee further told me that she and others are terrified of these
agents - that there had been times when they themselves had been subject to
their antics and also to unwanted advances at their departing stations. She
said that they have learned to just leave the train and stay out of the way
and also encouraged me to complain to Amtrak or file a lawsuit, saying that if
we were able to get the DEA off Amtrak we'd be doing Amtrak employees a big
favor.

If Amtrak can't protect me against armed thugs coming into my sleeper car and
terrorizing my family, they are simply not a viable solution for
transportation IMO.

I encourage you to reconsider Amtrak - if you ride often enough, this will
happen to you.

A quick google search will show you that this is a common, if largely unknown
practice. Here are some links:

* [https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/08/10/dea-travel-re...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/08/10/dea-travel-record-airport-seizures/88474282/)

* [https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/the-per...](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/the-perils-of-going-west-on-amtrak/500651/)

* [https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/dea-bribed-a...](https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/dea-bribed-amtrak-workers-for-free-rider-information-long-after-exposure-paid-single-source-30m-report-says)

* [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/05/12/...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/05/12/another-asset-forfeiture-outrage-2/?utm_term=.aaeb5d526a22)

~~~
solotronics
wow I am really surprised this was triggered by cryptocurrency. this is
terribly authoritarian and disappointing. if you don't mind me asking are you
a US citizen? if so contact your local congressperson and file a complaint
with the DEA office.

has your friend ever had anything similar happen traveling by air?

~~~
Kalium
> wow I am really surprised this was triggered by cryptocurrency. this is
> terribly authoritarian and disappointing.

It is authoritarian and disappointing, but to me unsurprising. The
cryptocurrency world associates pretty hard with drug trafficking. Coupling
that with someone choosing a train over what might be an easier flight could
be read as avoiding TSA.

The low security of Amtrak likely makes it a common smuggling route.

~~~
solotronics
I would be surprised if even 0.1% of drug trafficking is done with
cryptocurrency. The big banks have been caught red handed doing industrial
scale money laundering for cartels and producers.

~~~
Kalium
I would be very similarly surprised! And indeed, big banks have been and are
very guilty of aiding and abetting.

Yet, I would also be very surprised if the percent of actual cryptocurrency
usage that is legitimate even begins to rival that of typical currencies. And
I may have missed the connection, but I fear I do not see how the illegal
behavior of several large banks bears on the use of cryptocurrencies in
narcotic markets.

------
mschuster91
As a regular rider of Germany's night trains: what's the problem with eating
in a roomette (sleeper car cabin)? First of all I already hate it when the
cabin mates see me totally groggy - much less a whole fucking dining car. In
addition, no dining car can fit as many people as there fit in a _single_
sleeper car, much less a whole train composed of 10-15 sleeper cars.

~~~
ant6n
DB doesn't operate night trains since 2016.

~~~
mschuster91
The ÖBB has taken them over - including the cars themselves.

------
seltzered_
One thing I remember about the dining car is that if you’re traveling alone
you sit with other people in a 4-person booth. It’s been at least one way to
get away from staring at a screen/window alone and talk with people you may
not normally encounter.

This said, maybe Amtrak is trying to optimize for the people that ride it -
from my west coast anecdata it usually skewed to lower-income people needing
to get somewhere on short notice (where air prices got too much), or worked
for the govt in a way that it the price was discounted. (And to a smaller
extent thieves, adventurers, photographers, and people afraid of flying)

Thinking aloud, it’d be interesting if Amtrak could pair with a food delivery
app so folks doing a long distance trip could order something from a midway
stop.

~~~
electricEmu
I'm a West Coast, medium-income, short and overnight traveler, who doesn't
work for the government, isn't an adventurer/photographer, and doesn't fear of
flying.

I ride Amtrak frequently (more than fly). I rather like the Amtrak steak. I
think your model is wrong.

~~~
seltzered_
Thanks for the input. My model was just anecdata from riding a few times.
Realized my negative sentiments are all from overnight trips.

------
jgrahamc
This is sad. I spent six weeks traveling the entire Amtrak system in the early
1990s and it was a wonderful experience. And the food was good.

------
Empact
I’m all for this move. If amtrak is to succeed, it has to do so on the basis
of efficiency and service. If people aren’t willing to pay the prices
neccessary to cover the cost of food, and unions are unwilling to reduce the
cost of production, then we’re at an impasse and should cancel the service in
order to free up operational capital for running more service and improving
service in other ways. Trust me, people will find ways to eat! Making food a
money sinkhole is contrary to history and experience. It makes sense as a loss
leader, not when the system as a whole is a loss.

------
pkaye
I didn't have a good experience the last time I took Amtrak and had dining on
board. It was the only time in my life I felt I was discriminated against in a
dining setting. It was near the end of dinner time and food was likely running
low so i didn't expect much. However after seating us, she took on two other
groups and continued to fully serve them drinks and meal before coming back to
our table for drinks. And by this time, nearly every item we wanted of
interest was out of stock. With this kind of service, I rather they just serve
premade airline quality food.

~~~
mistercleo
Were you dining à la carte or without a reservation? Maybe the later arriving
parties had already had their food set aside in the kitchen because they were
traveling on a ticket with meals included and/or had a reservation. I
travelled only once with bedroom accommodations and recall we were assigned
reservation times when to show for our pre-paid meals.

~~~
pkaye
Yes without a reservation. However, the first half of dinner hour was for
reservations then they took people in without reservations. By the time we
were called, anyone with reservations would have long been accommodated. I
understand that food might run out but they could have atleast asked us about
drinks.

------
tyingq
Midwest Express had crazy good food. Miss them. Eggs Benedict with mimosas on
the way to Milwaukee. At low fare pricing with business class seating. No
wonder they folded I suppose. Good while it lasted.

------
raintrees
My wife and I celebrated our 20 year anniversary with a 7 train, 3 week trip
last year. The food was good for the first couple of weeks, but I think 3
weeks was a week too long - All things can eventually be monotonous.

We went out and scored a bottle of horse radish in DC to spice up the surf and
turf... That helped.

The most picturesque of the routes we took for us were the California Zephyr
and the Empire Builder.

[https://raintreesbytrain.wordpress.com/](https://raintreesbytrain.wordpress.com/)

------
bpchaps
I'm actually happy with this, having taken around five >24hr Amtrak trips over
the past few years. The dining car is pretty great overall, but the
announcements for it get really, really grating really quickly. Because all
announcements go over intercom, _everyone_ hears it - maybe 20 announcements
through out the day. Really breaks the mood if you packed your own meal.

------
scraft
I used to go to a business conference every year in SF (I am from the UK).
Also, in the summer a few friends and I would regularly take 9/10 days off and
rail around Europe, seeing new cities, exploring and having fun.

A few years ago, I had a bit of holiday available, so took it straight after
the conference in SF to travel from SF to New York (with the most part of the
Zephr train).

I explained what I was doing to one American at the conference and he couldn't
get his head around it. "But you can fly" and "but it is cheaper to fly" and
"but you can get their faster by flying". I explained I wanted to be on the
train, unwinding, watching America move past my window, speak to all sorts of
people. Go to sleep in one state and wake up in another. After a long chat,
the American was happy to leave me be.

The next day I am talking to someone at the conference and the American from
yesterday turns up, I do a little nod and wave to acknowledge him, but he
comes over and interrupts. He is with 5 other Americans and says to them "this
is the British guy I was talking to you about!" and I had to explain to more
people what I am doing and why. It was then like a snow ball effect for the
rest of the conference.

I spoke to so many Americans that had never been on a train, which seemed just
as bizarre to me as I seemed to them.

Anyway, the Zephr ride was amazing, there was a drought and heat wave in
California and Chicago was in -15°C freezing temperatures. I saw the land
scale change from sky scrapers to empty space, climbed up and around the
Sierra Nevadas, went through your after hour of flat farm land and so the
outside change from sun to snow. I spoke to so many people from devout
Christians from the South, to a train driver/operator (who told us when the
driver wasn't doing as well as he could and explained how various parts of the
train work), to a retired couple who are travel regularly to see their kids,
to college students to military men.

In the observatory carriage you get an amazing view of the country going by
and sometimes have guides come on board to give you some history and
information about the area. This was supplemented by eager locals who told me
even more and pointed out wildlife as we travelled.

I slept brilliantly in my bed each night and enjoyed nice food three times a
day. It was like being on a package holiday where you eat too much, drink too
much and sleep too much. Needless to say I really enjoyed it and have been on
a few more similar journeys in the US since (but the Zephr was the best).

When I arrived in New York I was only there one night but that was fine for
me, I was more interested in the train ride.

After a tiring week at the conference, the train ride was such a breath of
fresh air, a chance to decompress and relax, being forced to do nothing except
enjoy the surroundings, have a few days off from appointments, to dos, worries
and stress.

I have been to quite a few American cities, but felt I got a better sense of
what America is from taking that train ride.

------
Stranger43
So Amtrack is downgrading their food to the same level as their far more
successful European counterparts and everyone panics and sees it as a sign of
their imminent demise.

I think people are overreacting a bit but then again i am used to the cramped
overcrowded European railway network which likely have much different problems
to what's seen in America.

------
lionhearted
I logged in to post my ode to the San Francisco<->Chicago California Zephyr...
but looks like it's already pretty well-covered.

It's really incredibly beautiful and great for thinking. SF<->Seattle on the
Coast Starlight is also wonderful, those two routes are absolute gems.

Worth doing them now if you're at all interested; they might well not operate
in a few years. Amtrak USA Rail Pass is also an exceptionally good value if
you're looking to see a lot of the USA in a short period of time —

[https://www.amtrak.com/take-the-trains-across-america-
with-u...](https://www.amtrak.com/take-the-trains-across-america-with-usa-
rail-pass)

------
halfnibble
Somebody get this man a plastic spoon!

------
ape4
Doesn't the low pressure in a plane contribute to the blandless. Not a problem
on trains.

~~~
asteli
The recipes used account for this, increasing spicing. The low humidity is
also a factor I think.

The larger struggle is logistical, not culinary. You're eating what amounts to
a recently-frozen TV dinner, designed for the least-spice-tolerant palate,
engineered to not dry out in the time between being reheated and served.

Even if you can nail the flavor, there's no way to get a good texture (imagine
good french fries, or breaded chicken) when you account for what the food has
to go through to be served hot in the air.

------
jccalhoun
I would love for there to be some actual high speed rail in the USA but there
really isn't. The only Amtrak anywhere near me is if I drove 70 minutes or so
to Indianapolis to get on a train that left at 6am and got to Chicago at 10
am. No thanks.

------
kazinator
Want decent airline food? JAL, ANA.

------
darkstar999
Took the Amtrak from San Diego to Anaheim last year business class. It smelled
like a sewer. Wifi was unusable. Is that normal?

~~~
HuggableSquare
Amtrak wifi is typically pretty bad because it's cellular, so it ends up
roaming between towers constantly and you have a ton of people all on the same
network. As for it smelling like a sewer, that is not normal, no.

------
hb3b
The steak on the Acela is great!

------
rayiner
> Yes, you heard me right, and I believe it’s part of a plan to dismantle the
> National Network—shutting down most, if not all, long-distance trains, to
> focus on the Northeast Corridor, Midwest (Chicago) and California short- and
> medium-distance services, and state-supported trains.

That would be fantastic.

------
rdl
Taxpayers (and freight customers) shouldn't be subsidizing a novelty form of
transportation for rail fans. If there's a subset of people who want this
service, they should pay sufficient fares to cover the cost of service. Amtrak
isn't doing that.

~~~
anderber
"Yes, Amtrak is subsidized. So are all competing forms of transportation.
Highways cover only 51 percent of their costs from all user fees, including
the gas tax. The rest is paid by subsidies of one form or another, especially
from local property taxes. Airlines receive massive subsidies in the form of
airports and the air traffic control system. The day after 9/11, the airlines
ran to Capitol Hill and were immediately given billions of dollars in
additional taxpayer money, no questions asked."

[http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/dont-
railroa...](http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/dont-railroad-
amtrak/)

~~~
rdl
Airports are largely self-funded by user fees (or via federal funds which come
from other user fees and fuel taxes), and airlines (except for bailouts in
2008-2009) are almost entirely commercially funded.

[http://airportsforthefuture.org/did-you-
know/](http://airportsforthefuture.org/did-you-know/)

Air is the true competitor to the long-haul train in the US. It is cheaper and
faster. There are separate arguments for/against transit and regional trains,
but long-haul passenger rail, which is what is discussed in TFA, is
essentially a novelty.

~~~
fulafel
There's the small problem that air travel is environmentally unsustainable,
with no fix in sight. It should be heavily taxed to account for the env.
externalities.

~~~
rdl
Taxes to account for environmental externalities (in the case of air travel,
noise, CO2, altitude-related pollutants are probably the main things) make
sense for everything. Air travel beats road and rail in some cases on this,
doesn't in others. Taxes and thus pricing in all the costs would let consumers
decide.

------
johan_larson
Good, good. The sooner Amtrak alienates its remaining customer base, the
sooner it can be scrapped. There are only a few parts of the country that are
settled densely enough -- and broadly enough -- for passenger trains to make
sense. Any moves toward consolidation of service to only those areas should be
welcomed.

~~~
gascan
Why do you want rail to be scrapped?

~~~
johan_larson
I don't want to scrap it all, just the parts that require hefty subsidies to
serve places that have realistic alternatives. US households usually have cars
and for those that don't, intercity buses tend to serve even very tiny burgs.
So most people most do have realistic alternatives.

Trains are the right solution in some cases. Commuter rail often makes sense.
And in some densely populated regions, intercity trains make sense too. But in
most of the US, because of the distances between cities, cars and planes work
better.

~~~
gascan
_the parts that require hefty subsidies to serve places that have realistic
alternatives_

You realize roads are built & maintained entirely at public expense? But we
are so used to taking roads for granted.

Public money spent on rail, is public money that doesn't need to be spent on
roads. So, IMO, the first question is how many passenger-miles we get per
dollar on rail, and how many per dollar on roads.

~~~
ascagnel_
You also can't discount the benefits of modal redundancy in transit. Trains
don't just carry people around -- they also take drivers off the road. When
NJTransit's rail-workers union was agitating for a strike a few years ago, the
state DOT advised drivers to expect a few hundred thousand extra trips per day
to make up for the service outage.

