
Road Tripping Around Europe in a Tesla Is Less Fun Than You’d Think - pseudolus
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-road-trip/
======
jakobegger
I really don't get why all the charging networks in Europe require you to sign
up, get a card, download an app, etc. It's ridiculous. My sister drives an
electric car, they have 5 cards from different charging networks, and she
still struggles to find a charger that actually lets her charge.

Every gas station accepts normal debit and credit cards. There is no gas
station that requires you to sign up before filling your tank. It is
ridiculous.

Why can't the charging networks just install a normal credit/debit card reader
and let people pay with their normal cards? It's mind-boggling.

~~~
stcredzero
_I really don 't get why all the charging networks in Europe require you to
sign up, get a card, download an app, etc. It's ridiculous._

2019's "sign up, get a card, download an app" is like 1990's "Leave your name
and contact information. Our sales people will contact you."

~~~
marcosdumay
> 1990's

There are many sites like that on the internet today. Ever had to buy
enterprise software?

~~~
solarkraft
Those products typically go right to the end of my list.

~~~
AndrewKemendo
For what it's worth, that's exactly what they want you to do if you're only
casually interested in the product.

~~~
solarkraft
I find this interesting. Don't you want to spread knowledge about and sympathy
for your product as wide as possible to get a good base of advocates,
eventually reaching decision makers? (See: Student licenses, open source and
such)

~~~
AndrewKemendo
Totally depends on the product. OSS? Social? Consumer? Media? Sure!
Enterprise/Productivity? Not as much.

What you want is your sales team following high probability of conversion
leads.

If I make you jump through a few hoops just to talk to a sales person, then
I've already weeded out most of the people who wouldn't buy it anyway.

------
nicoboo
The funny thing is, I made the trip from Lille, France (near where I live) to
Poznan in Poland, a few stops required all along and no problem - more than
2000km on a few days.

In the summer, in France, Lille to Alps then Ardeche and no problem.

Same for my past vacations here in the South of France (Ardeche, France),
around 1000 km long trip and same for getting back here.

I've been using my Tesla (TS85D) since Nov2015, and the only time I had a
short stress was while I went seeing Elon Musk in Paris because there were
hundred of Teslas in the same area.

So, frankly, I respect the author of this article, but I think if you're
following what is displayed on board and adding a little logical thinking and
planning a bit your trip in some remote areas (Britany for example) (with
OpenChargeMap or ChargeMap applications among others), then it's all good.

~~~
dkonofalski
That's the problem. The author admits to not using the onboard charging
navigation but instead used Google Maps to plan the trip. She's intentionally
being obtuse to make the article clickbait and make EVs look bad.

~~~
gamblor956
The whole point of the article was that EVs (in this case, specifically
Teslas) are not yet ready to be driven like normal cars, i.e., without regard
to planning refueling stops.

It's not clickbait, it's literally the point of the test and the resultant
article.

~~~
mikeash
I'd like to see the opposite story: where a reporter drives an ICE car around
town for a week and then it suddenly dies in the middle of the road because
you have to go to a special station to refuel it instead of doing it in your
garage every night.

It's true that road trips take a bit more care. (Although not much; all you
have to do is put your destination into the car's navigation system, then make
charging stops where it tells you to.) But "normal" cars aren't free of hassle
either.

~~~
dkonofalski
You just hit the nail on the head. Anything can be made to seem like a hassle
if framed a certain way and that's my problem with this article. Everything is
framed to make it seem worse than it is while simultaneously ignoring the
benefits.

------
diebeforei485
Instead of stopping at the Metz supercharger like the onboard navigation[1]
would tell her to, this reporter with an axe to grind decides to do stupid
things like charging to 100% to make a clickbaity article.

[1] Web version:
[https://www.tesla.com/trips/#/?v=MS_2017_100D&o=Paris,%20Fra...](https://www.tesla.com/trips/#/?v=MS_2017_100D&o=Paris,%20France_Paris%20Paris%20Île-
de-
France@48.856614,2.3522219000000177&s=&d=Mannheim,%20Germany_MA%20KA%20BW@49.4874592,8.466039499999965)

~~~
danso
From Paris to Metz is roughly 205 miles. Her car had a range of 215 miles and
she notes that the onboard estimates have been off "by at least 10 percent
every time". But you're telling me that the navigation would still recommend
her to attempt that kind of leg, in an area where chargers may be sparse?
Seems like bad UI/UX.

~~~
zerocrates
The parent posted a trip plan for a longer-range configuration. Switch to a
smaller battery and... it shows a stop more or less right where the author's
first planned stop was.

The dialogue on all sides around Teslas is so exhausting. This article isn't
even _about_ Tesla, really.

~~~
eeeeeeeeeeeee
The OP just seems like another Tesla/Elon fanboy.

I fully support what Elon and Tesla are doing, but this Bloomberg article
accurately points out the downsides of owning a Tesla, especially if it’s your
primary car.

If you’re mostly using a Tesla to get around town and charging at home, it’s
makes sense, but you’d be better off renting a car for road trips and not
having to deal with this hassle.

A lot of people in America have not and still don’t buy diesels because those
gas stations are not as ubiquitous as normal fuel. The problem exists to an
even greater degree for electric cars, not to mention the amount of time you
have to sit around waiting for charging.

~~~
jonknee
> A lot of people in America have not and still don’t buy diesels because
> those gas stations are not as ubiquitous as normal fuel.

American diesel owner here and I initially had some concerns about this but
it's the opposite problem of Tesla, thanks to trucks it's never hard to find
diesel on road trips. It can be a little harder around town, but since the
range is so far (500+ miles) I've never had a problem.

------
c0nfused
Stories like this vaguely confuse me, typically the driver complains about not
being able to find a charger repeatedly.

I bought a Tesla model 3 recently, hooray tax credits.

There is literally a button on the map screen that tells you how to get to the
nearest chargers both Tesla and otherwise and if they, for the Tesla chargers,
are available. This will then happily navigate you to the charger via GPS.

It seems like for a technology that is pretty frankly an early adopter thing,
that using the tools provided rather than expecting it to work like a gas car
is expected.

~~~
beatgammit
Precisely. If I had a natural gas or hydrogen car, I would expect to plan in
advance for refueling. For an electric car, I would also plan in advance even
though the car has the option to find the nearest station (better to avoid
being out of range of a quick charger and having to spend more time than
necessary at a slower station).

So yeah, I completely agree that it should be assumed to be more involved than
the currently mass-market vehicles.

------
ricardobeat
This article is so hard to read. 'Over 10 hours of charging', seven of those
being while plugged-in and sleeping at a hotel, and 1.5h wasted on
unnecessarily topping up to 100%. She also plays the 'cold battery' card but
ends up making it to the destination with battery to spare.

Tesla has a trip planner that routes you to a 12-lane supercharger station
[1]. This is not a complicated journey _at all_ and only requires one ~30m
charge each way. Somehow the author turned it into an anxiety-inducing
odyssey.

[https://www.tesla.com/trips#/?v=MS_2017_100D&o=Paris,%20Fran...](https://www.tesla.com/trips#/?v=MS_2017_100D&o=Paris,%20France_Paris%20Paris%20%C3%8Ele-
de-
France@48.856614,2.3522219000000177&s=&d=Mannheim,%20Germany_MA%20KA%20BW@49.4874592,8.466039499999965)

~~~
gamblor956
She tried to drive the car like a normal car, i.e., by not specially planning
for charging.

And in that sense, the trip failed for the Tesla, because trying to drive it
like a normal car in Europe was anxiety-inducing. Which was the whole point of
the article...

~~~
gamblor956
Replying to the dead comment: the point of not using the Tesla-specific tools
was that she wasn't trying to do a Tesla-specific road trip. She was trying to
do a roadtrip in an EV, and just happened to choose a Tesla because it had
most range of the EVs available to rent (many of the EVs available to thoses
of us in California aren't yet available elsewhere).

~~~
ricardobeat
That makes no sense. She clearly planned ahead in a way you wouldn’t for a
petrol car.

The “tool” everyone is mentioning is literally in the car dashboard. You have
to go out of your way to _not_ use it by default.

------
HALtheWise
For anyone planning to take a road trip in an EV, there are really good tools
that allow you to avoid almost all of the issues the author faced due to bad
planning. The Tesla navigation system has one built in that takes into account
supercharger closures, but there are also
[https://evtripplanner.com](https://evtripplanner.com) and
[https://abetterrouteplanner.com](https://abetterrouteplanner.com) , which are
highly customizable and quite nice.

For this particular route,
[https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=45a1f1bd-5697-448...](https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=45a1f1bd-5697-4482-bbfd-0fe7ecd71a88)
finds a route with just under 2.5 hours total charging time, and 10 h15m
driving time.

The one issue that might have been unavoidable was having a supercharger be
closed unexpectedly while you are driving towards it, but I suspect that Tesla
indicates impending closures on the display, and you can also call their
roadside support line to clarify details about impending maintainence if you
are worried.

------
pjc50
By "round Europe" they mean "Paris to Mannheim and back again". For this
journey it would be much simpler and quicker to take the train:
[https://www.thetrainline.com/en/train-times/paris-to-
mannhei...](https://www.thetrainline.com/en/train-times/paris-to-mannheim-hbf)

(In general if you want to see a lot of Europe don't do it on the road, get an
Inter-Rail pass! Much cheaper than a Tesla)

~~~
marktangotango
Car trips in Europe in general are less “fun” than the US due to the simple
fact in Europe most businesses keep sensible hours. Unlike the the US you
can’t just drive and expect to find gas, food, or lodging at midnight. This
may have changed in the past 10-20 years though. At least today you don’t have
to bother with showing your papers at every border crossing.

~~~
AlexTWithBeard
Sorry, folks. A business which is only open when I'm in the office and closed
when I actually have some free time doesn't sound sensible at all.

~~~
mmsimanga
I prefer that people go home and spend more time on their hobbies or families.
I spent a few months in Austria and in a couple of weeks I was used to
everything bar restaurants closing at 5.

~~~
beatgammit
I don't really understand this, why not have everything people want to go to
be open after typical office jobs close? If you are only open for 8 hours, why
not open later (11am or so) or have a couple hours that the shop is closed for
family time (e.g. 3-5pm or something)?

Closing at 5 isn't convenient for anyone but the business owner, and even then
it's not necessarily better than opening later.

~~~
mmsimanga
It isn't just the business owner who benefits, the cashiers too. In South
Africa most of the cashiers are women with children. I like the convenience of
getting my bread at 8pm but would rather these cashiers where home with their
children. Certain parts of the country are not so safe when traveling at
night. These tend to be the areas cashiers can afford to live in. So its a
double whammy for them.

Look it is a balance that needs to be struck. I appreciate the challenges in
South Africa and different to the rest of the world. There is a price for
everything, I question the price we pay as a society to have all these shops
open late?

------
natch
Bloomberg seems to have it in for Tesla so I take their reporting on this with
a grain of salt.

They can easily choose to have a bad experience if they so desire by going to
slow stations and avoiding superchargers. Or by using superchargers
incorrectly such as by trying to fully top off at every charge, a typical
newbie mistake, or choosing shared stations when non-shared ones are open
(this guy was in a rental... possibly a newbie).

Also the supercharger network is continuing to be built out rapidly so
anything they say here will be outdated in a matter of months if not weeks.

~~~
wlll
> supercharger network is continuing to be built out rapidly

I'm pretty sure this has been the case for a while now, years perhaps, and yet
the author seemed to have problems none the less.

You say the reporting should be taken "with a grain of salt", but what did
they do to make their lives harder than they could have been?

> Or by using superchargers incorrectly such as by trying to fully top off at
> every charge

I have a petrol car that I fill up completely whenever I am at a petrol
station, why should someone not do this for an electric car?

> or choosing shared stations when non-shared ones are open

What does this mean? I read the article but couldn't see anything that to me
sounded like it matched this statement, but that's likely just my lack of
experience.

I get that you might have more experience than me, or the author, but you've
not really explained how this was the authors fault, and how the experience
could have been made better.

If I buy a Tesla then try to drive from the North of England to Seville, am I
going to have the same issues the author had? What knowledge do you posses
that would allow me to do the journey more easily than they did?

~~~
dkonofalski
>what did they do to make their lives harder than they could have been?

The big issue for me is not following the directions for charging in the
manual and battery screen for the car. The navigation has an option to find
Superchargers and yet the author used Google Maps to find chargers instead.
This means that they got "destination chargers" instead of Superchargers.
Additionally, the car tells you not to make quick charging stops and not to
wait until the battery is low to charge as it handles all that automatically.
The author could have made this trip in 2 stops that would have taken a total
of 40 minutes of charging if they had just used the navigation built into the
car. They went out of their way to make sure the "range anxiety" lasted for as
long as possible.

~~~
llampx
Why would a charger off the highway in the middle of nowhere be a destination
charger? Also, isn't this a mode that could be configured, with the charger
supplying more juice if requested? Even if its a destination charger I
wouldn't be happy to hang out for 2 hours if I could be done in 30 minutes if
its more than a few minutes walk to my apartment/hotel.

~~~
dkonofalski
Destination chargers are typically non-Tesla chargers that are available for
use with an adapter that's included with the Tesla charger. A Supercharger can
charge a vehicle to 100% of daily capacity in 20-25 minutes while a
destination charger will typically take overnight to fully charge.

------
eastendguy
Paris to Mannheim is only 3 hours by fast train! Why take the car? Or if money
is an issue, it is 7 hours and US$ 25 by bus.

This does not make the authors point invalid. I am just pointing out the good
public infrastructure. Even so I have a Tesla, I still prefer public transport
if possible. It is an sooo much more productive use of time.

~~~
criddell
If getting from point A to B is the only goal, then I agree with you.

Some road trips are more about the journey than the destination though. If a
sign tells me the worlds longest paperclip chain is just off the next exit,
I'm probably going to take it.

------
Symbiote
> While Tesla’s website shows roughly 600 Supercharger stations in the U.S.,
> it has only around 400 in Europe, 65 of them in France (with a total of 220
> charging docks). That doesn’t feel like much for a country roughly the size
> of Texas with more than double its population.

The supercharger network in Europe is strongly weighted towards the west,
there's a map [1].

Texas seems to have 39 superchargers, and the journalist didn't have to wait
while others were charging.

So my guess is a 715 mile road trip in the USA would be similar — particularly
on a leisure road trip, which is less likely to follow the main motorways.

[1]
[https://www.tesla.com/en_EU/findus#/bounds/65,55,34,-11,d?se...](https://www.tesla.com/en_EU/findus#/bounds/65,55,34,-11,d?search=supercharger&name=Europe)

~~~
rgrove
I commented here about my own experience taking a ~5,000 mile US road trip
from Oregon to Texas in a Tesla Model 3 last summer:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18868422](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18868422)

tl;dr: I covered ~600 miles a day and it was a lovely trip.

------
mschuster91
I know from my time back in the trench digging industry that a huge part of
the charger lack issue is caused by the simple fact that ordinary
superchargers gobble 150 kW electrical power a piece, which means that six of
these things put a peak load of 1 MW to the net. The newer generations are
said to be up 500 kW each... so you're looking at up to 3 MW or even 10x more,
if you're an Autobahn rest place and aim for a load of electric trucks to be
charged!

Your typical gas station, however, has a base load of tiny ~ 22 kW (per [1],
divided by 8800h/year). The challenge is now that both the 10 kV electrical
uplink _to_ the gas station itself and, especially in rural parts of the
country, also the 50/110 kV distribution backbone has to be upgraded, and this
is _not_ cheap.

This is the one big advantage of fossil (or synthetic) fuels: the energy
density is incredibly high and the cost of shipping a fuel tanker truck is
tiny compared to building out all that electricity network.

[1] [https://www.next-mobility.news/auch-verbrenner-fahren-mit-
st...](https://www.next-mobility.news/auch-verbrenner-fahren-mit-
strom-a-678284/index4.html)

~~~
ericd
Makes sense. But this sounds like plumbing vs. carrying water in buckets from
the river. The plumbing is more expensive up front, but cheaper long term.

~~~
mschuster91
We are talking about investments to the tune of dozens of billions of dollars.
Who is supposed to pay for this? Or, who is supposed to build it? Europe has a
decent shortage of construction workers on one side and in city/government
planning and approval on the other side.

In my opinion this is a task for the government if it wants to make sure
people move away from fossil fuels, but the US president is holding the
country hostage over a wall while the infrastructure is falling apart and
Europe is locked up by populists and Brexit so no movement from there (and we
Germans can't get HV transmission lines built across Germany either without
lots of NIMBY protests and tons of wasted money).

My generation however will have to live with the consequences, and that sucks.

~~~
ericd
Agreed that it’s a government job (though the utilities are quasi-governmental
agencies if I’m not mistaken).

How many billions are we talking? If it’s not too many, I’m sure the US
government wastes that amount on much less important things.

------
elhudy
I did a 4-day 16 hour round trip drive just this past weekend through the
Midwest into the South. Can't imagine having to stop any more often than I
already did; in fact at the pace Teslas charge, I'm not sure the trip would
have even been possible.

~~~
rconti
16 hours.. total? or 112 hours total?

The former sounds amazingly brief, the latter, rather long.

~~~
elhudy
Just curious, what is amazingly brief about driving two 8 hour (~500 mile)
segments in four days? Even if I had the largest Tesla Battery, I would still
have had to stop and do a full charge during each segment twice.

~~~
rconti
Sorry, now that you describe it, I realize the emphasis on the "round trip"
part. Yes, doing a 4 day roundtrip with that many miles (and only 2 'travel'
days) means a lot of driving for a brief stay. I was thinking more in terms of
a relatively continuous trip where 4 hours a day for 4 days is not very much
(for example).

My parents' house is about 500mi away from where I live, and I generally don't
drive unless I'm staying for a week rather than just a few days, so this is a
good point-- for a trip to visit someone, and return, a good % of your time is
spent driving. As a typical "see the sights" type roadtrip, you might be doing
8 hours a day every day for an extended time, which is more what I was
thinking.

(FWIW our 3 can easily get its rated 310 mi range so really you'd only need to
stop once, assuming you can charge at your destination, but of course that
assumes there's a supercharger relatively close to the 'middle' of your
segment.. OTOH if you did stop twice they'd be quite brief stops, probably
like 20 minutes).

------
sandrobfc
I believe that it was the OP intention to do that trip mostly for the
experience. It doesn't make sense to ask why not take a train or any other
transport instead.

In any case, it just deepens my fear of electric cars. It surely looks
expensive (almost as much as gas cars), there are very few superchargers in
Europe (where I live there's only 3-4, and very badly placed) and the autonomy
doesn't seem to be that great. Maybe I just have to wait for better autonomy
and more recharge stations...

------
yholio
> I decide to do a full charge as my hotel is still 145 miles away. It takes a
> tedious 85 minutes, and I dine on a Whopper and fries.

It blows my mind that people think recharging their cars on the go can be the
future of transportation. I understand that with good driver education and
planning, the hassles of charging can be circumvented. I have a tremendous
amount of respect for those that put in the effort: you are doing the
pioneering work and boot starting a green revolution, I might join you soon.

That being said, for the average consumer electrics cannot represent a
compelling alternative for an internal combustion car until battery swap
technology is ubiquitous. The majority of people will simply not give up the
convenience of fast refills, unless the cost of driving a petrol car rises
significantly while the affordability and electrics increases dramatically.
Even then, it will be seen by many as the low cost, inferior product.

A rechargeable car a significantly more inconvenient product for most
consumers, so it has a lower value that has to be compensated somehow.

~~~
modeless
> A rechargeable car a significantly more inconvenient product for most
> consumers

Actually, a rechargeable car is significantly more convenient than a gasoline
car because you can charge it at home and/or work. You only ever have to wait
for charging on long road trips.

If you take road trips over 250 miles on a monthly basis, or you can't charge
at home or work, then by all means get a gasoline car. But I think that given
people's driving patterns, the majority of people would spend less time
overall waiting for charging than they would driving to the gas station and
filling up. I certainly do.

~~~
X6S1x6Okd1st
I live in Seattle and am currently considering what car to buy next. It will
likely be an ICE car because during the summer we regularly will drive 70-100
miles in one direction to a hike. There are not and will not be charging
stations at the trailhead. Typically we eat breakfast on the road or before
heading out, eat lunch on the hike & get back home for dinner. Stopping for
over an hour on the way back would be a big change of pace.

This is also true for some of the ski resorts. There are a couple charging
stations, but parking is already enough of a disaster at the ski resorts that
I'd rather not deal with it.

We'll likely follow the crowd and get a ICE Subaru.

~~~
rjplatte
Get a PHEV. The Subaru Crosstrek Hybrid looks amazing, and the 2019 Prius has
AWD. Save yourself some money until electric is ready.

~~~
uxp100
The PHEV prius doesn't have AWD. It's a higher trim for a normal prius only.
And the Crosstrek gets pretty poor mileage for a hybrid after the battery is
empty, probably because it has "full" AWD. The Prius has a more limited form
of AWD, though it is likely enough for most AWD vehicle buyers needs.

If you are interested in a PHEV AWD car (I am interested in PHEV, my wife is
interested in AWD), other vehicles to check out are the Hyundai Outlander, the
Mini E Countryman S, and a few more expensive BMWs and Volvos. Kia might have
one? That's pretty much all of them. Crosstrek seems like the best to me, but
has definite downsides and is a compliance car not widely available in the US.

------
rdiddly
[https://www.raileurope.com/train-
tickets/journeys/article/pa...](https://www.raileurope.com/train-
tickets/journeys/article/paris-mannheim)

 _" The average travel time between Paris and Mannheim is 4h49 minutes. The
quickest route is 3h05 minutes. The first train leaving Paris is at 06:01, the
last at 19:06. There is an average of 27 trains a day between Paris and
Mannheim, leaving approximately every 40 minutes."_

------
Havoc
Why road trip with a borderline new tech anyway?

I'm all for EVs but this just feels like opting to play life on hard mode.

Roadtrips are about exploring the unknown, not the moment to try new
transportation too

~~~
kwhitefoot
I've driven Norway to the UK and back three times in the last year with a side
trip to Bordeaux. I drove all the way from Bordeaux to Belgium avoiding toll
roads and still had no problems charging my 2015 S 70D. It's really not a
problem in a Tesla.

It's a bloody nuisance for other EV drivers though because of the lack of a
common payment method, a friend of a friend in France has a Hyundai Ioniq and
has a wallet full of cards for the various chargers. It's getting better
though.

------
ctdonath
A possibly interesting contrast:
[https://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/democratic-
re...](https://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/democratic-republic-of-
congo-lubumbashi-to-kinshasa.50799/)

Upshot: what would normally (by Western standards) be an easy 17 hour drive
takes the narrator something like 54 days on roads that ultimately destroy the
vehicle just before completion.

~~~
Nimitz14
Wow thanks for posting the link that was a great read!

Don't understand why the driver was so against paying bribes though. As one
guy said:

> Before we were let go one office said "Ce n'est pas la Belgique ici, tu es
> en Congo!" \- "This is not Belgium, you are in Congo". He hissed and gave us
> a terrifying look

~~~
beatgammit
Yeah, bribes are just the cost of being a foreigner in many parts of the
world, and they're often not too bad (unless you did something terrible).

Before visiting a poor country, figure out how much a bribe should be and
consider it similar to a tip here. Policemen aren't paid very well, so it's
kind of like tipping an underpaid waitress here in the US. Account for it as
part of your overall expenses and you'll be fine.

------
devy
Almost all of the issues and frustrations that Marie ran into were new and/or
unique to electric vehicle (at least initially), as she pointed out.

\- EVs have shorter range: ICEs were similar in that fuel tank capacity hasn't
changed much but engine design advancements improve fuel efficiency and in
turn increase range.

\- Charging stations are far and few between: same with gas stations in the
early days - urbanization creates more of them.

\- Different levels of charging station (1.8kwh home charging, 6.6kwh public
charging and 24kw+ DC fast charging, colloquially Level 1, 2 and 3 charging).
This is not the same as fuel grade. But it's obvious that just like a
cellphone charger, higher output charger can fill the batteries faster.

\- Range meter is a guess-o-meter. This is exactly the same as your ICE's
range meter. Driving style affects fuel efficiency. Heavy footers tends to
empty their fuel tank quicker same with EV, they tend to run the battery out
faster or range reduced faster as the faster you drive an EV and higher
current the electric motor requires and the more battery voltage drops. A
range at 30mph is much longer than at 80mph. I would point out that EV range
is also weather dependent (temperature affects battery chemistry, rain/snow
road condition affects traction and in turn affects range as well). Newer
battery management systems has mitigations for temperature control etc so it's
less a concern.

\- You have to be mindful about your road trip planning and charging station
locations. This is the same for ICEs, but since gas stations are everywhere in
urban areas so it is not a concern. It sure will improve for EVs as we build
out charging infrastructure. U.S. regulators were able to negotiate a deal
with VW for its diesel gate settlement so VW is contributing hughly in
building out charging infrastructures.

\- DC Faster charger's reliability. As an early adopter of EV, I felt this
pain first hand. The early 400V DC faster charger prioritize safety and hence
it gets tripped up and disconnect the charging circuit a lot. But I am seeing
less and less this happens in recent years, so I'd say it's only getting
improved.

\- Charging etiquette. I suspect this is similar as ICE. When you refilling
gas and getting some snacks and run for a bathroom break, do you park your car
right in front of the gas pump even though it's fully refueled? You probably
shouldn't right? Same with using DC faster chargers. Don't squat the charging
spot if your car is fully charged and or above 80% of charge (above 80% charge
it automatically switch to a slower charging rate), let the people inline to
use the charger.

~~~
izacus
> \- Range meter is a guess-o-meter. This is exactly the same as your ICE's
> range meter. Driving style affects fuel efficiency. Heavy footers tends to
> empty their fuel tank quicker same with EV, they tend to run the battery out
> faster or range reduced faster as the faster you drive an EV and higher
> current the electric motor requires and the more battery voltage drops. A
> range at 30mph is much longer than at 80mph. I would point out that EV range
> is also weather dependent (temperature affects battery chemistry, rain/snow
> road condition affects traction and in turn affects range as well). Newer
> battery management systems has mitigations for temperature control etc so
> it's less a concern.

The annoying thing here is that the range planners I've been using (Teslas and
abtterrangeplanner) cut the charger distances really close on some common
routes I've checked - like reaching the charger at < 15% charge. Which, at
least for me, seems like a heck of a close call for a situation where road
traffic conditions, temperature and possible detours can quickly burn away
that remaining battery.

------
thedudeabides5
I though it was already clear that road tripping around anywhere is not the
reason you buy an electric car. The infrastructure just isn't there yet
(though that sounds like a good pork project).

On the other hand...he's literally the only person in the world who could post
this and I'd take it seriously...

[https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1083095876392964096?ref_...](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1083095876392964096?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1083095876392964096&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftribune.com.pk%2Fstory%2F1885358%2F8-elon-
musk-serious-flying-cars%2F) [https://tribune.com.pk/story/1885358/8-elon-
musk-serious-fly...](https://tribune.com.pk/story/1885358/8-elon-musk-serious-
flying-cars/)

Does anyone have context on this?

------
laacz
One thing about roadtrips - we like to take scenic routes. On scenic routes
there are very few gas stations, let alone electric charging points. Even with
a gas powered car we still have to plan our fuel-ups.

Another thing is that an hour and a half to charge the car is very long time
to cut out of your day when on vacation. If you're with kids, you have to find
stuff to do. Every day, since you do drive the scenic route which is much more
heavy on battery than highways are.

Eating a meal while charging of course is a thing, yet we usually try to cut
that time to minimum compensating with late dinner. Also, eating options near
charging stations almost never hit home...

I suppose that if technology won't catch up, electric must change the way
people travel. Or it will still be relevant for A-to-B trips or daily
commuters only.

------
rgrove
Last summer I took a road trip from Oregon to Texas and back in a Tesla Model
3. I covered about 600 miles a day over the course of 8 days, for a total of
nearly 5,000 miles. I never had a problem finding a supercharger along my
route, never had to wait to charge, and rarely had to spend more than 30
minutes charging before continuing.

I stuck to major highways and interstates for most of the route, though there
were a few long legs in Colorado, New Mexico, and Texas that were on minor
highways off the beaten trail.

It was a really fun trip and I'm dying to take more long road trips in the
car. My experience definitely wasn't anything like the one the author of this
article had.

------
rocky1138
It's really hard to understand this article due to its use of miles.

------
StreamBright
Aka we need better ways of storing energy

~~~
VBprogrammer
Or don't use a Tesla for something it's not really designed for? Cars can be
rented pretty cheaply. 99% of the driving I do is within a single charge of
say 300 miles. I might have to rent once a year for longer trips.

My sister has an old generation Nissan Leaf with sub-100 mile range. It works
fine for her use case and when she makes a long trip she uses her partners car
or rents one.

No different to how I'd rent a van if I was trying to move a sofa.

~~~
ghaff
>No different to how I'd rent a van if I was trying to move a sofa.

That's true. But, for a lot of people, long weekend roadtrips are a lot more
common than moving sofas. There's quite a bit of friction associated with
driving to a rental place on a Friday, parking your car someplace, driving the
rental home, packing it up, and then doing the process in reverse during the
rental place's business hours.

~~~
njarboe
If you are doing a lot of long weekend roadtrips, you will likely want to own
a ICE vehicle with the current state of battery tech. Not a big deal. To each
their own. But for many people, especially households with two cars, one of
those that fills up at home and has a range of 200mi, will be something that
saves them time and money. People and society would probably be better off not
attaching their identity and group affiliation to the type of car they use.
Keep your identity small[1].

[1][http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html)

~~~
ghaff
For a good many years when I was still commuting and otherwise driving locally
more than I do now, I had a small 36mpg Honda 2-seater as well as an SUV for
weekends and hauling stuff. I actually still have the Honda but it's very old
and I'll probably get rid of it because I don't use it much. If a person or
family has 2 cars, it makes a lot of sense for at least one of them to be
something small and economical and (at least in the near future) EV--assuming
home charging.

------
mlindner
I'm rather surprised so many comments here fundamentally misunderstand EVs and
think that this bloomberg story is representative of long distance trips with
EVs. It's not and no one should consider it as such. She needlessly charged to
100% when she didn't have to and did zero research on the car she was using.
The article is a farce.

------
megaremote
Good. Road tripping should be a thing of the past anyway, no matter what you
use.

------
nwmcsween
ICE engines have jerrycans, for long haul or emergency use, electric vehicles
have nothing.

------
mhh__
Are Teslas fun to drive? I know they're fast but is the suspension etc. as
refined as (lets say) an M3

------
lagadu
If he wanted to go that far, he should've taken a train. I realize that the
point of this was to test it out but he is flat-out ignoring that extremely
few people here do trips over 200km over once a year, so there's no demand for
infrastructure to support that.

~~~
jve
Everyone is not exaclty like you. Where I live in europe, many people around
me do more than 200km ocassionally or often. And when I go on a roadtrip, I
notice plenty of cars with registration numbers not from particular country.

~~~
smileysteve
> Everyone is not exaclty like you.

> extremely few

> many people around me

Studies suggest that "extremely few" and "many people around me" is about 10%
of car trips. (At least in the U.S., typically more geographically sprawled
than much of europe).

[https://www.fastcompany.com/3062902/electric-vehicles-
could-...](https://www.fastcompany.com/3062902/electric-vehicles-could-work-
for-almost-90-of-car-trips-today)

So, yes, maybe not everybody can have an electric car and may need to rent a
better suited car some % of the time; Maybe that's a partner, a neighbor, a
car club. On the bright side, renting a van, truck, land rover for longer
trips also reduces the wear on your batteries.

------
jillesvangurp
Sounds fun to me if you don't mind planning a few off the beaten track style
detours. Shouldn't be too hard, plenty of tools available for finding and
navigating chargers.

A few points about range anxiety:

\- To the best of my knowledge, EVs being towed away because they ran out of
battery probably happens once in a while but seems to be easy enough to avoid
for most drivers that it doesn't seem to be thing. Even the author of this
article was fine in the end (and not for a lack of trying).

-You can charge some EVs simply by towing them (regenerative braking). So, not the end of the world if the "worst" actually happens. I imagine charging from a second EV might also be an option with the right equipment; I imagine that will become a common way to deal with idiot drivers getting stranded.

\- If you drive 300 km and don't take a break, you are probably getting
dangerously tired. Good excuse to plug in and take a break.

\- Average yearly mileage in Germany is less than 14K km. That suggests a lot
of short journeys and maybe a handful of big ones (if any) for most cars.

\- If like many business drivers in Germany you regularly travel the Autobahn
at 200 km/hour between big cities that can be as much as 400-500 km apart in
Germany, you probably are burning a lot of fuel. You could save a small
fortune by going electric! Chances are most such journeys have plenty of
charging points along your way.

\- For most people this is not a thing. Renting cars is a lot cheaper than
owning vehicles that you don't need most of the time. You can have a simple EV
for day to day commutes and just rent something with longer range when you
need to make that yearly 1500 km journey to southern Europe for your vacation.
The savings in vehicle and fuel cost should allow you to travel in style.

------
SovietDissident
This is exactly how I would have imagined a trip would go. $85 billion market
cap for a car that can't travel to most areas of the globe at all or with
severe inconvenience? Give me a break.

Electric cars have been around for 100 years, and they've been consistently
inferior. We've perfected the car with the internal combustion engine. Empower
automobile engineers to make marginal improvements, but otherwise: can we
please spend precious capital elsewhere? Think of all the cures or
improvements to human life this money could have gone towards, rather than
this stupid electric car will-o'-the-wisp. Build some nuclear power plants! Go
to Mars! (In fairness, Elon's trying the latter, as long as Tesla doesn't
become a financial albatross around his neck.)

Why must the history of humanity always be the story of one step forward and
two steps backward?

~~~
coffeemug
_> $85 billion market cap for a car that can't travel to most areas of the
globe at all or with severe inconvenience?_

Pure electric cars have only been widely available for a few years, so there
isn't a lot of infrastructure yet. The market cap prices in risk-adjusted
growth, so you have to consider what the world will look like 10-20 years from
now. Do you think it'll still be the case that electric cars won't travel to
most areas of the globe without severe inconvenience?

 _> Build some nuclear power plants! Go to Mars!_

Firstly, we can do both. There is enormous amount of capital in the world, and
not enough actionable good ideas. Secondly, dictating capital allocation top
down is tyrannical. Thirdly and most importantly, there have been human
societies that have tried to avoid various will-o'-the-wisp projects and
allocate capital only to smart undertakings. Historically, they haven't fared
very well.

