
Google’s Play Store gives a worse age rating to Fleksy, a Gboard rival - dmcy22
https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/23/googles-play-store-is-giving-an-age-rating-finger-to-fleksy-a-gboard-rival/
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levosmetalo
Didn't install the app, but one look at the screenshot of the Fleksy in
Playstore shows "earn coins as you type" feature. It also offers in app
purchases, but didn't bother to install to check which.

I know many apps use coin system, but in many cases it's just a children
manipulation.

~~~
djsumdog
I mean, it would be one thing if Google stated that as a reason. I really hate
this in-app purchase model, and now being applied to something as stupid as a
keyboard, something that can literally monitor all your data and send back
your most common words to advertisers ... ugh.

I pre-ordered a Purism 5 from the next batch in anger a few weeks ago. I want
off this Android/eyeProduct bullshit. I want full control of my mobile device
again.

~~~
osrec
How would your ideal open-source smartphone ecosystem be structured?

Genuinely interested as I'm looking to explore this as a potential project
myself with my team.

~~~
deftnerd
Flat subscription of $10 a month for the app store. Once a month, your phone
tells the store what percentage of time you spend in apps from that store.
Firefox has 40% of your time? They get $4.

~~~
dessant
Wouldn't that encourage developers to create more addictive apps, add longer
UI animations, and apply other tricks to increase usage time? Valuable apps
that require only short interactions would certainly suffer under this scheme.

Just letting developers get paid without taking a 30 percent cut, or not
banning open source apps for including a Patreon link [1] would be a great
start.

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21268389](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21268389)

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netsharc
I use Gboard, and today it had a strange prompt on the bar above the keyboard:
"Do you like typing German?".. I was curious and I pressed it, it lead to a
prompt where there was text I could copy paste and I guess post on my social
media, about how much I enjoy using Gboard...

So you fucking want me to advertise for you, Google? And for what reason? Does
someone want their promotion/bonus and for that they have to reach x
downloads?

In fact I'm going to go to the Play Store and give them a shitty review...

~~~
aitchnyu
Windows apparently has the system dialog "how likely are you to recommend
Windows 10 to a friend or colleague?" with a score from 1 to 5.

~~~
vanderZwan
Since I don't really use Windows that often I cannot really judge how bad this
is. Does it also link you to Facebook or Twitter to recommend it if you give
it a 5 star rating? Internal surveys are something different from trying to
trick people into recommending a product on Twitter.

~~~
MikeHolman
No, it doesn't link to social media. It's just an internal survey.

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drusepth
>At first glance a spokesman agreed with us that the situation looks odd.

Seems like someone messed up somewhere and is probably being resolved.

In all honesty though, no app with IAP (especially easy-to-access IAP or IAP
that can't be locked by a parent) should get an E rating. Fleksy should get a
higher age rating for this reason, not because of an emoji.

~~~
jakemal
> IAP (especially easy-to-access IAP or IAP that can't be locked by a parent)
> should get an E rating

I disagree. I think it's Google's job to provide parents with the tools to
lock down IAPs for children. Once the phone is locked down, IAPs shouldn't
matter. And the ratings would be useless to a parent if every app with IAPs
was rated > E. They wouldn't know if the content is what is giving it the
higher rating or just the IAPs.

~~~
tssva
Google does provide the means to lock down IAPs for children.

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QueridoGuy
I used to be a big fan of Fleksy app before the creators went to pinterest and
sold their app to some company. They new devs probably didn’t know how to fix
their previous bugs or work on the code itself. So they started adding new
“features” , which was a toolbar for a keyboard app. Kept contacting them on
fixing their error, but they just said we know it’s there. Until i switched
back to Gboard.

I would say, it’s probably because they added something to that toolbar.

It’s always like that for most apps, especially keyboard apps. A company
abandon their app, then another company buy it from them and not know how to
deal with the app. The app ends up with bloatware that no one asked for and
then the app gets abandoned

~~~
mintplant
> I would say, it’s probably because they added something to that toolbar.

Nope, the article states otherwise.

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skybrian
This is a tangent, but is there a good keyboard app for Android that doesn't
have emoji? I'm tired of hitting the emoji button accidentally and having
emoji show up in autocomplete.

~~~
gregschlom
I was just thinking I should look into making one if there isn't one, seems
like there would be market for a good, simple keyboard app.

~~~
mackrevinack
what about anysoft keyboard? it might be a better idea to improve that since
it's open source and it needs a bit of work.

I would switch over to it today if the swipe typing was better but its
currently "in beta" and that's a bit of an understatement tbh. in my
experience the predictions are wrong 80% of the time

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scohesc
So Google is selectively oppressing certain app developers by using the "Rules
for thee, not for me" ideology.

Well, they've been doing it for years and that's why there's people in the US
Government talking about anti-trust investigations... Hopefully something
comes of it.

~~~
jhall1468
Gboard doesn't have in app purchases, the other one does. The rules are
different because the apps are different.

~~~
NKosmatos
Well in the article it clearly states that the age rating discrepancy between
Gboard and Fleksy is due to the middle finger emoji.

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parliament32
On a related note, does anyone have recommendations for a Gboard alternative?
I've disabled all the "pipe everything I type directly to HQ for analysis"
things in Gboard but I'd prefer a non-Google alternative.

~~~
fawak
SwiftKey has been working wonders for me for years now.

~~~
Semaphor
I switched to the AOSP keyboard because SwiftKey kept getting worse the more
it learned (it always became usable again after deleting everything).

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magashna
Seems malicious on Google's part since middle finger is official unicode

~~~
techwizrd
I'm guessing it is more that the different teams do not talk to each other,
and Google must not have a good, standard review process.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

~~~
heavyset_go
Never attribute stupidity to that which is adequately explained by self-
interest.

It's extremely convenient that Google had an oopsie that's entirely aligned
with their own interests.

~~~
Bartweiss
I mean, this could be as simple as internal app teams not going through the
same form, or not getting re-reviewed automatically because it's assumed
they'll speak up if they add anything objectionable. And Fleksy's point about
being targeted for their increasing use count wouldn't require intentional
targeting either - that could just be an automatic "trigger an extra review
when user count grows enough".

Which doesn't make it acceptable, obviously. It just means that malice isn't
required for unfairness - all it takes is Google fixing the dumb mistakes
which hurt them faster than the ones that hurt others.

~~~
yjftsjthsd-h
Letting your own apps bypass the review process sounds pretty anti-competitive
to me...

~~~
Bartweiss
Yeah, that was a weak example on my part. If they're actually skipping the
normal review process, that's either malice or unreasonable negligence. And
the Google Play followup of "your app is mature and should be PEGI 16" implies
a human paid actual attention to this case, which makes it seem much less
innocent.

I guess I can imagine some special cases that wouldn't be Google treating
itself differently, like triggering reviews when a publisher's _largest_ app
crosses a size threshold and assuming established publishers can trusted more
generously. But honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Google just carved out an
internal exception.

And the PEGI 16 request goes beyond "not the same treatment as Gboard" to
"objectively incorrect review outcome", so regardless _something_ is fishy...

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TooCreative
The crazy thing with Android and iOS software is that not only can Google and
Apple reject your software now. They can kill it any time in the future.
Forever.

It seems nobody talks about that.

As a software developer I would find it way too uncomfortable to build on a
platform like that.

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papln
Shades of "We do not support competitors' products."

Malign neglect -- build a regulatory system that is valid in principle, but it
implemented in a complex enough way that it tends to fail often, which has a
tendency to scare off consumers, and subject everyone except yourself to it.
People will tend to choose your product to avoid the hassle.

You see it everywhere, from non-Pixel Android phones trying to keep with new
OS versions, to Windows and MacOS API churn and "secret APIs".

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smilekzs
Curious: How effective would it be to separate only the app store from
Google/Apple, when it comes to this rating problem? Perhaps not even the
infrastructure --- I'd imagine even just having an independent group of
reviewers / rule enforcers would make the situation much less absurd?

~~~
ozim
So you maybe want to nationalize app stores? Getting european app store,
managed by EU. Then US store managed by US government...

It is also as bad, but on the other hand I think internet infrastructure like
app stores and all the other stuff should also be treated like roads in the
end.

But government sucks with managing money :/

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vzaliva
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

I think is most likely inconsistent reviewing. I've seen this with Apple, as
well as with Google. The apps stores need to have very clear guidelines and
well-defined appeal process, possibly with 3rd party arbitration.

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yegle
This rating is based on a questionnaire:

[https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-
developer/answ...](https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-
developer/answer/188189?hl=en)

~~~
mlyle
Someone didn't read the article:

> Fleksy’s team have done so over the years — and come up with the PEGI 3
> rating without issue. _But this month they found they were being issued the
> questionnaire multiple times and then that their latest app update was
> blocked without explanation_ — meaning they had to reach out to Play
> Developer Support to ask what was going wrong.

> After some email back and forth with support staff they were told that the
> app contained age inappropriate emoji content. Here’s what Google wrote:

> > During review, we found that the content rating is not accurate for your
> app… Content ratings are used to inform consumers, especially parents, of
> potentially objectionable content that exists within an app.

> > For example, we found that your app contains content (e.g. emoji) that is
> not appropriate for all ages. Please refer to the attached screenshot.

Google is apparently upset that the app contains a middle finger emoji. Which
GBoard also contains. GBoard is rated 3+, not 12+/16+.

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ozfive
This is pure anti-competitive and monopolistic action. This is another
instance that needs to be noted down for the current investigation into
Google, Facebook and others. Period.

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Drew_
Let's not be distracted from the fact that the middle finger emoji actually
exists.

~~~
jakemal
Why don't you think it should exist?

~~~
marcusverus
It's universal sign language for "fuck you". Profanity is frowned upon.

~~~
jakemal
I think Google should steer clear of being the morality police. It's up to
people to use emojis (and words) responsibly depending on the context.

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bjt2n3904
A question: why does a keyboard need a PEGI rating?

Should python 3.5 have a PEGI rating? How about vim?

~~~
kyle-rb
Python 3.7 is rated E for Everyone by the ESRB

[https://www.microsoft.com/en-
us/p/python-37/9nj46sx7x90p?act...](https://www.microsoft.com/en-
us/p/python-37/9nj46sx7x90p?activetab=pivot:overviewtab)

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NKosmatos
I understand it’s a difficult choice to leave the play store, but you’re
playing by their rules, their game and in their own field. They can do
whatever they want because they’re google.

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njsubedi
But, did anyone notice the totally irrelevant "get rich quick" kind of
comments on the TechCrunch article? Aren't the comments there moderated?

~~~
stevewodil
No, those comments are everywhere on TechCrunch. There doesn't seem to be
much, if any, comment moderation

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TazeTSchnitzel
Does Slack have the same rating? It has its own emoji system, including the
standard middle-finger.

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Mindwipe
Way past time to ban app stores.

