
The “Facebook Nevers” - imartin2k
https://500ish.com/the-facebook-nevers-14af0a4ea5ea
======
travisr
"The fall of Facebook was never going to be people quitting the service en
masse — it’s too interwoven into the fabric of the way many of us use the web
these days — it was always going to be the people who never really use the
service in the first place. Kids."

I've noticed this amongst my family. The cousins, etc I have under 16 either
don't have a facebook account or abandoned shortly after creating it. It's
"uncool" because their parents see everything they do on there -- I know you
can customize your sharing, but I doubt they know or care to be that careful
on Facebook.

"This is why the smartest thing Facebook ever did was buy Instagram. Instagram
is likely past a billion active users on its own now."

Unfortunately, this is why I don't use IG. I want to, but it seems impossible
for me to keep it out of my Facebook like I want to. FB always pops up with
"look what your friends are doing on IG" and I don't want my photography to be
plastered in front of my grandparents.

~~~
lucasmullens
I don't think it's that hard to not share Instagram posts to Facebook. Can't
you just unlink your account?

~~~
travisr
Not that I could find. I remember trying to use an alternative email even, but
it was my back up email on Facebook and it linked them automatically.

~~~
stephenhuey
If this is the case for you, maybe it only applies to newer Instagram accounts
since I had mine long before the acquisition and my posts go to FB only by
choice (and I almost never choose that anymore).

------
amelius
The only thing in Facebook that keeps me on the platform is Events.

I wish somebody would create an open, federated Events implementation, and
copy all event data (including rsvps) from FB continuously.

~~~
nunodonato
I have been using Meetup for the past month and I'm pleasantly surprised.

Besides the even thing, your group also gets a discussion board, mailing list,
photo sharing and a few other tools.

The cost might be a barrier to the adoption but I'm hoping it will grow more

------
waterphone
I'm a "Social Media Never", and an increasing number of people I know are the
same. We might sometimes use some forums or news/comment aggregators like HN
or Reddit at some level, but none of the big social media platforms like
Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, etc.

~~~
majewsky
This categorization doesn't pass the sniff test. Reddit is as much a "big
social media platform" as Twitter is a "forum or news/comment aggregator". The
main difference IMO is the average quality of discussion.

~~~
tlynchpin
reddit works great without an account.

------
code_duck
Hardly a novel analysis, or any new information. It has been written about for
years how Facebook is weak in the under 13 demographic. That's why they not
only bought Instagram, but also thoroughly copied Snapchat and crammed it into
the Instagram app. Similarly, jokes have been out there for a while about how
nobody is on Facebook anymore but your grandma.

Personally, I did quit Facebook, after years of less rewarding interactions,
and an increasing amount of friction with the site. Often the newsfeed's
choices of content felt personally insulting. It's a habit to visit, even
though it really doesn't offer much, like smoking.

What I did is I change my password to something that I don't remember to break
the habit. Then, in the time it would take to recover the password and sign
in, I have already remembered that I don't want to. I haven't been there in a
couple of weeks, and the last times I did, my notifications were quite dull.

One thing that reinforces quitting is that not using the site for a while
seems to greatly reduce the reach of posts when you return. When I post
content and get no responses it feels humiliating, like I appear to have no
friends who are interested in my content. In reality, Facebook is showing my
content to very few people. I get about 10 times the response on Instagram,
from basically the same group of people, and it was even more so before they
partially ruined Instagram by making the feed more like Facebook.

~~~
gregknicholson
> I appear to have no friends who are interested in my content.

Are you a magazine journalist? If not, why do you have “content”?

Maybe Facebook has trained you to believe you're playing a churnalism RPG, and
that your ability to grind for Likes reflects your value as a person.

~~~
code_duck
I think you're extrapolating that from my use of the term 'content', but I'm
merely referring to whether anyone responds to my occasional posts about my
work or life. I have thousands of connections on Facebook, but when I put up
something, I'll get one like, from my dad. The same thing on Instagram, and I
would get actual communication with the peer group that I was intending to
communicate with.

All I'm trying to is casually keep in touch with my friends and acquaintances.
The like/heart/favorite serves as a register that someone read it and/or cared
enough to send that signal.

------
hotwire
oh gee, i just LOVE websites that have about 300 pixels of readable space.

get rid of the huge fixed headers and fixed footers garbage. PLEASE. fuck this
stupid trend.

~~~
omeid2
There is a fix for Medium[0] but the general trend of massive boilerplates and
little content really needs to die.

0\. [https://github.com/thebaer/MMRA](https://github.com/thebaer/MMRA)

------
product50
I think the main question is what happens to the "Facebook nevers" generation
once they graduate from college. Do they continue not using Facebook or do
they accept that given the lifestyles in 20s, 30s and 40s, Facebook is the
right product to be in.

The fact that Snapchat, which is a very popular product for teens/college
users, usage continues to stagnate tells me that the "Facebook nevers" is not
really a proven theory but just another hypothesis. Instagram, otoh, is
popular across all age groups.

------
ianamartin
That's pretty much how I've always seen it. Facebook as a singular product
will eventually wilt and go the way of friendster and myspace. The smart thing
Zuckerberg has done is to keep acquiring the next big things. Facebook as a
company is extremely well-situated and won't be going anywhere any time soon,
even though Facebook will eventually die out or become utterly worthless.

~~~
tivert
> The smart thing Zuckerberg has done is to keep acquiring the next big
> things.

Though that strategy requires the cooperation of both the government and the
leaders of those "next big things."

The founder of the next big social network may prefer to be the next Mark
Zuckerberg rather than the next Kevin Systrom.

~~~
majewsky
> The founder of the next big social network may prefer to be the next Mark
> Zuckerberg rather than the next Kevin Systrom.

/me looks at Wikipedia page of Kevin Systrom

> Net worth: 1.6 billion $

I think I'd be okay with being Kevin Systrom. (Especially considering that
Systrom is mostly unknown in the general public, whereas Zuck has a large
amount of people who personally hate him.)

~~~
tivert
> /me looks at Wikipedia page of Kevin Systrom

>> Net worth: 1.6 billion $

Net worth of Mark Zuckerberg: 75.6 billion USD

> I think I'd be okay with being Kevin Systrom. (Especially considering that
> Systrom is mostly unknown in the general public, whereas Zuck has a large
> amount of people who personally hate him.)

I would probably make the same decision as Systrom, given the opportunity, but
I don't think everyone would. Some people would rather be the new tech titan
rather than the guy who sold himself out to keep the old tech titan in power
for another decade.

There are also other motivations a found may have to not sell out to
Zuckerberg. In my original comment considered including the WhatsApp founders.
They both made out handsomely, but their creation will be corrupted to fit
Zuckerberg's privacy-free vision rather than their privacy-preserving one.

------
paulie_a
While I still have a Facebook account I simply find myself using it less
frequently. There is zero chance my engagement will ever increase. They have
lost me and my views of their shitty advertising. And their advertising is
complete crap. For a company focused on targeted ads they are absolutely
terrible at it.

~~~
blhack
They have the data, so obviously they know more about the effects of their
tweaks than I do, but:

It seems like I don't really get fresh content anymore. It seems like a few,
mostly stale stories from people I barely talk to. That makes it harder to be
engaged in the service, and it makes me use the service less.

What I wish I could have (by default) is just a chronological list of things
that people have posted.

Maybe there is a team of facebook who needs to justify their jobs or
something? I don't want my feed optimized at all. I do the optimizing by
selecting who I follow.

~~~
bscphil
> It seems like I don't really get fresh content anymore. It seems like a few,
> mostly stale stories from people I barely talk to.

Perhaps what you're observing is the result of people abandoning Facebook or
using it much less. It's not that Facebook is poorly optimized for you, it's
that the people you want to hear from are using the platform less that before?

~~~
elboru
I totally agree with you, I decided to unfollow everyone and everything I
don't want to keep contact with. It seems like I got rid of unfunny memes,
photos of babies I don't care about, a lot of garbage posts from pages I don't
even remember why I started following.

I thought I would get a better Facebook, a new feed with only posts from
people I care about, turned out my Facebook is empty now, the people and pages
I do care about seem to stopped posting a long time ago, I just didn't know
because Facebook made it look like my feed was full of interactions I cared
about.

------
zitterbewegung
And this is why Facebook bought Instagram. And in the future whatever they can
acquire later. That is one strategy that can work in these situations. So
younger people would not signup for Facebook and Instagram.

------
DiabloD3
Okay so, I'm reasonably well connected to the world.

What can Facebook offer me? I don't use it, I have never had an account, and I
always thought it was a fad. It seems that it has taken awhile, but the world
has agreed it was a fad and it is now over it.

So, what did I actually miss out on?

------
brian-armstrong
The article claims that life without Facebook is impossible. I haven't had an
account for years and although I don't know what I'm missing, that statement
seems exaggerated. Is this article more a reflection of the author's poor self
control than of reality?

~~~
rconti
> The article claims that life without Facebook is impossible

Does it? This is the closest I can get:

> Facebook has been giving many people many reasons not to sign up over the
> years. But we’ve had to: everyone we knew was on Facebook. And eventually,
> this trickled up and our parents were on Facebook. Now the trickle down
> effects of this are the opposite: kids don’t want to be on Facebook because
> it’s what their parents are using.

That's not really the same as "impossible".

> Is this article more a reflection of the author's poor self control than of
> reality?

Is poor self control the only reason one would be on Facebook?

~~~
Mirioron
>But we’ve had to: everyone we knew was on Facebook.

But the fact that everyone they know is on Facebook doesn't mean I have to be
in Facebook. I never made an account for it.

------
JonasJSchreiber
Not sure I agree with this argument. If Facebook's appeal dips for prospective
users, they'll just buy whatever services those users are using instead. Their
revenue comes from ads anyway.

------
arkh
> I’m talking looooonnnnggg time horizons here. Maybe a decade or more.

The life of a social moth. Always going for shining lights. Getting burnt. And
having so low a life expectancy that 10 years is long-term.

------
rblion
People are full of shit. Talk a big game when they benefit from it socially
but when it comes to actually making a change, taking a stand, voting with
dollars, etc. They come up with 'But I'm busy' 'But I'm tired' 'But I'm
lonely' 'But everyone else is doing it' and the catch-all 'I'm only human'.

I'm guilty as charged too. I don't have a Facebook but I still eat fish, drive
a car, etc, etc.

This trait right here is why I am not optimistic about the future no matter
how much technology progresses.

~~~
bad_user
If you think people are full of shit, you've been listening to the wrong ones.

Personally I never claimed that I will quit Facebook, because I know I ain't
going to do it, as all my family is on it.

That said, I only visit Facebook about once per week or even less, because
frankly it's not that interesting. I was also checking out my ads profile.
Turns out, I _never clicked_ on any ads. And when posting content, I'm always
careful to post for my friends only, which isn't a big list of people. Meaning
that in the large scheme of things, Facebook isn't getting much from me. My
social network of choice has been Twitter.

I also own two cars. But I ride my bike to and from work every day, in all
seasons but winter.

I ate a lot of meat, but I'm trying to cut down on it due to health benefits.
Considering that I gave up smoking, sodas and alcoholic beverages completely,
it's a little hard for me to further restrict what I put in my mouth.

And yes, I am only human. FYI the actions of any one particular individual to
cut down on usage based on moral or social factors are zilch. If you want
meaningful change, there are only 3 ways to do it:

1\. invent technology that makes the status quo irrelevant, but this isn't
actually something that most of us can do

2\. keep the competition alive by voting with your wallet, because every
dollar counts

3\. get involved in politics, or at least talk more often with your
representatives, go vote and convince the people around you to do the same

Because cutting down on meat due to environmental reasons, quitting Facebook
and so on, that's the bullshit we do to feel good, but doesn't actually
matter.

~~~
rblion
Cutting down on meat is good for a lot more than just feelin good my friend.
I’m typing this from my phone, so I will just say do some more research on the
benefits. There is a lot of byproducts directly from animal agriculture that
affect quality of life for the entire biosphere.

Militant vegans do make it hard to listen at times but there are also other
some other voices starting to speak up. Laboratory meats are probably going to
be a monumental moment for the movement.

Moderation is key to everything. Facebook and most social media is built on
feedloops that, in my opinion, stifle human potential. It’ll will be looked
back on one day like people view cigarettes today. I’ll bet money on that.

I’ve gone through a crazy adventure through out my 20s to feel how I feel
today. I feel healthy physically, mentally, emotionally, financially,
spiritually, etc etc.

I’m kinda out there now, renouncing all my possessions besides one backpack,
working on Option 1 in your list. I’m 28, first generation American

