
The Minimalists want you to be happy with less - fern12
https://www.thecut.com/2017/10/profile-the-minimalists-ryan-nicodemus-and-joshua-millburn.html
======
mmel
I've always found the most joyous part of consumerism is the researching for a
particular product pre-acquisition, rather than the product itself post-
acquisition.

~~~
daveguy
It is the most engaging part, but almost to the point of obsession to me. So
much that I often have to tell myself, especially with electronics/technology,
"just find a good product for a reasonable price".

~~~
parametrek
Channel your obsession! I'm the same way and it grew into the most
comprehensive database of flashlights around:
[http://flashlights.parametrek.com](http://flashlights.parametrek.com)

~~~
mercer
That's very inspirational! I've often thought of putting my useless but
extensive knowledge about something obscure to good use, but never did.

------
kstenerud
It's the same kind of panacea movement that takes root with every generation
that's about to leave youth behind and enter their scary 30s. Today it's the
Minimalists. Before that it was environmentalists, yuppies, conservationists,
suburbia... The list goes on.

You reach a point in your life where you start to question what you're doing
it all for, and think about what it is you really want and need. Your values
become more conservative, and you feel the need to attach to a social movement
of the times.

It's also interesting to note that this transition always involves a moral
dimension, including the judgment of those not fully on board with your
movement of choice, and also competition with those who ARE on board.

Southpark's "smug alert" is particularly apt.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXZeq9eXAys](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXZeq9eXAys)

~~~
hannob
> It's also interesting to note that this transition always involves a moral
> dimension, including the judgment of those not fully on board with your
> movement of choice, and also competition with those who ARE on board.

Sorry to call out your strawman here. I've followed the minimalism debate for
a while and I hardly anywhere hear so often things like "this is no
competition", "this is what I feel works good for me, but you don't have to do
it", "if you like your books keep them" etc. What you claim is largely not
happening, apart from maybe some fringes of the movement.

~~~
kstenerud
Hmm, ok, let's use a small sample from this very thread:

Karma judgment (the zen master): "What we call minimalism comprises people who
maximalize meaning, value, importance, and purpose."

Competition: "My girlfriend and I are very minimalist (err... maximalist?)
owning only a few outfits each (no accessories), and just the bare necessities
of home items. If we find something has no utility, it gets donated or
trashed."

The True Scotsman: "Just to note, 'minimalists' are almost universally hated
in every minimalist community I've seen and I would really not take them as
any soft of spokespeople for minimalism."

Moral goalpost: "It sometimes amazes you how little you need to be happy yet
everything we do is to get as much as possible."

~~~
AstralStorm
Yes, probably some drug or kind of simulation is enough. /s

The question is ill posed since our brains are not wired for consistent
happiness. You are probably mistaking it with being contented which starts by
admitting defeat.

And this is all orthogonal to efficiency or productivity which ate important
social goals if not strictly personal ones. (Sometimes they partially
coincide.)

------
Hydraulix989
Before I left San Francisco for Asia, I had a studio apartment completely
packed with stuff -- three giant suitcases full of clothes, an entire standing
bookshelf full of books that I never read, IKEA furniture, and tons of
electronics junk that I just never used (Xbox 360, MS Surface Tablet, old PC
laptops).

I threw it all away. I must have thrown away $10,000 worth of stuff (well,
mostly sold, recycled, gave away, and/or put in Schrodinger's "storage").

My digital footprint is much larger than the physical junk that I had. Now all
of my belongings fit into one suitcase.

It was a very relaxing feeling getting rid of all of that junk. I haven't
missed any of it.

It's not some hidden agenda that these Minimalists are pushing that they WANT
you to be happy with less even though you actually are happier when you have
more; I've found that I actually _am_ happier with less (after adopting the
right mindset). In massively consumerist cities like SF, there is a ton of
social pressure to show off that you have more trendy things than all of your
neighbors and to drive that German car, etc. and you just have to use your
willpower to not succumb to that pressure.

~~~
rconti
I'm not sure those two are mutually exclusive. You could always have the
latest cell phone, laptop, watch, car, etc, without actually having too much
STUFF.

Like most people, I have far more STUFF than I need, but even if I downsized
to just the stuff I use virtually every day, and really enjoy, would be a
total PITA to move.

~~~
accatyyc
Agree with this! I love researching and acquiring quality things. Doesn’t mean
I have too much stuff. I love throwing stuff away, but will also enjoy
spending a lot on stuff I care about. Quality above quantity.

------
w-ll
How come 'minimalists' always want me to buy a their book, or go to their
seminar?

~~~
rconti
Well, they've got a warehouse full of books. Seems like a great way to de-
clutter.

~~~
balabaster
Laugh. Out. Loud! XD

------
ryandrake
I make it a ritual. Every year on the same day, I go through all my stuff.
Everything! If I haven't used it in the last year, it goes on Craigslist. It's
amazing what you can talk yourself into keeping perpetually because "just
maybe" you'll need it one day!

~~~
craftyguy
My problem, as a tinkerer, is that I almost always do end up using something I
have laying around one day.

~~~
khedoros1
I agree. My interests shift back and forth, somewhat unpredictably. I'll work
on a given project for a few months, then abandon it for about 2 years. Things
that I haven't used in a long time often find themselves imaginatively re-
purposed.

------
yodsanklai
I'm not a minimalist but I do try to consume less. I see it as some sort of
personal hygiene. Just like I barely drink soda anymore or avoid junk food. I
see consumerism as a pitfall of our society and at least I try to be aware of
its mechanisms. I also try to give a new life to my old things by giving it to
less fortunates.

------
tjr225
I love getting rid of things. I don’t care if anyone else does, but I do. I
also like acquiring things- but I usually regret acquiring things more than I
regret getting rid of things.

~~~
crehn
Same. I also enjoy refactoring code and removing legacy crust.

~~~
robotresearcher
I'm gonna pretend you really mean crust.

~~~
mtanski
If you have day old bread it's "legacy crust". And, who wants legacy crust.

------
jinqueeny
It sometimes amazes you how little you need to be happy yet everything we do
is to get as much as possible.

~~~
microcolonel
Maybe I'm the weird one here, but I use everything I buy. The only time
something I own goes unused is when somebody else buys it for me.

Right now I'm looking to move about 700km. Sure, what little I own is a bit of
trouble to move, but it is almost all useful. I'm at the point where having
less stuff would mean doing fewer things.

~~~
ellius
I think the problem is drift over time. Maybe you would have used an item, or
did use it, but your life has changed--as lives inevitably do--and now you
wouldn't use that item under any circumstances. But the thing has become part
of your environment, you're used to it, and there's the possibility that the
part of your life which motivated you to buy the thing in the first place
might come back. So through inertia you acquire more and more stuff, and it
starts to quietly sap your energy as you begin to associate subconscious
feelings of guilt and frustration with it.

In my book, "minimalism" is often a treatment for the symptom rather than the
disease. The real cure is to actively remove items that have a negative
emotional connotation, and to hold onto only those things that you either use
or otherwise affiliate positive feelings with. (For example, I almost never
use my flashlight, but it feels good to know I have it on hand in case the
power dies out. That's worth keeping.)

~~~
tedmiston
> The real cure is to actively remove items that have a negative emotional
> connotation, and to hold onto only those things that you either use or
> otherwise affiliate positive feelings with.

Is this basically the same idea as "spark joy" from Marie Kondo's books?

[http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/why-keeping-only-the-
clothes...](http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/why-keeping-only-the-clothes-that-
spark-joy-is-magical-216094)

[https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/23/garden/home-
organization-...](https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/23/garden/home-organization-
advice-from-marie-kondo.html)

~~~
ellius
I took it from "10 Minute Declutter," but it seems like the same idea. It's
the only principle I used when cleaning up my own spaces and I'm amazed at the
difference just a few months made. My whole state of mind is better.

------
NiklasMort
Minimalism is the "being reasonable" of the 21st century. But yea in this
consume-oriented world it's very rare and thus news worthy.

~~~
tedmiston
I second this but would phrase it slightly differently:

Minimalism is critical thinking applied to the ownership, maintenance,
management, and lifecycle of objects.

------
stevenwoo
There was one line about cutting down the kitchen but the facebook group is
private - do these people cook much at home at all? I don't need a lot of
gadgets but at minimum one needs a couple of shelves of different pots unless
one goes for camping style cooking for every meal - though I would be happy to
be corrected.

~~~
michaelmior
You can cook a very wide range of food with one pot and one frying pan.

~~~
Sacho
And at least one cutting knife, a set of utensils, some dishes, a place to
store long-term products, spices and leftovers...oh look, I need a shelf now.

Poor families need space to store stuff, because they stock up during good
times to go through the bad. My family had a huge basement stocked with
pickled vegetables and fruits, bought during harvest when they are cheap to
use during winter when everything is expensive. We also had tons of
bookshelves, filled to the brim with aged books from parents, cousins and
other relatives, because we could not afford buying school materials every
year and school libraries were usually picked clean. You need a place to store
all the stuff from your parents - your crib, clothes, toys, so you can use
them for your kids too...

I don't know how you get around all that with minimalism - from my POV, owning
a big house is the best investment a poor family can make.

~~~
tedmiston
One idea is to not hold onto all of the things. An implication that stems from
poverty is an understandable hoarding mentality. I would ask instead, "How
could I possibly know whether my child will even want this same thing 5–20
years from now?" then donate it to a thrift store or sell it. And focus on
free activities like going to the park over object ownership.

I don't consider myself a poor person but I grew up lower middle class and
practiced habits like stocking up on consumables in bulk when they're on sale
that you'll definitely use before they expire — things like soap or shampoo or
toilet paper. I still practice that today because to me it's fiscal
responsibility, but it is easy to go overboard as well. I just always try to
optimize for reasonable unit economics which can vary quite a bit from thing
to thing. Sometimes buying the cheap disposable version makes more sense than
a BIFL.

------
thraxil
I'm in agreement with most of the anti-consumerism argument. And having spent
my adult life living in tiny apartments in NYC and London and moving
internationally a few times, I certainly understand how possessions can be a
burden.

But still, whenever I read about "minimalism", and people bragging about how
they can fit everything they own into a single carry on bag, I can't help
think that these are really boring people. It just doesn't seem like a
lifestyle that would make any sense for all but a small number of people that
fit some very narrow conditions ("pure" knowledge worker, no pets or children,
no interest in whole swaths of hobbies and activities).

Eg, I'm a professional software developer to pay the bills. RSI is a potential
career ender for me, so I have an ergonomic setup a good chair, desk,
monitors, keyboard and trackball. I can't just work on a macbook air in a cafe
all the time without risking my livelihood. When I'm not working, I like to do
oil painting (which requires an easel, paints, brushes, cleaning supplies,
sketchbooks, etc.), I play and record music (so I've got a bass, a couple
guitars, a couple amps, pedals, mics, etc), and I like hiking and camping (so
backpack, tent, etc. etc.). My partner teaches electronics and builds hardware
games and art installations, so our flat is full of soldering irons, heat
guns, reflow stations, and stockpiles of components. She's also a musician so
she has a small collection of synths and music gear of her own and she likes
to do woodworking and build furniture (we don't have room for large power
tools in our flat, so she has a membership at a maker space for that) and she
likes gardening so we have a ton of plants.

When I think about all the most interesting, creative people that I know, none
of them could do the "minimalism" thing either. They do things like arc
welding, hardware reverse engineering, homebrewing and distilling,
electroplating, restoring vintage motorcycles, sewing, 3d printing, quilting,
farming, baking, cosplay, etc. All of which require having a bunch of stuff.

Minimalism is fine and if it works for you and your lifestyle, fine. But I
really don't like how it always seems to come along with an implicit disdain
for physicality and interests that aren't completely in line with that
knowledge worker on a macbook on an empty desk aesthetic.

------
bungie4
At some point, your shit owns you.

A few years ago, I was forced to move in with my gf (long story) She owned a
house, filled with her own stuff. I was left with no option but to dispense
with furniture etc. Some was sold, some given away, some donated. I moved in
with my clothes, some memento's and heirlooms and some kitchen utensils (just
in case it didn't work out).

I moved everything in two loads of my truck. Over the years, theirs been times
where I was considering moving out. Not having to deal with all that STUFF is
intensely freeing. Call it an awakening through involuntarily minimalism.

------
seltzered_
NYTimes had a decent critique last year of minimalism and the minimalists:
[http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/31/magazine/the-oppressive-
go...](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/31/magazine/the-oppressive-gospel-of-
minimalism.html)

~~~
joelrunyon
It's literally the same author - ha!

------
stevenwoo
The family cloth for toilet paper seems less sanitary than not using toilet
paper and washing.

~~~
3131s
The correct answer to washing your butt is a "bum gun" or bidet. It's more
sanitary, quicker, more environmentally friendly, cheaper in the long run, and
less likely to cause irritation. I would never go back to paper.

~~~
AstralStorm
Or just using the shower.

~~~
sanmon3186
Not hygienic IMO.

------
czechdeveloper
Just to note, 'minimalists' are almost universally hated in every minimalist
community I've seen and I would really not take them as any soft of
spokespeople for minimalism.

~~~
robotresearcher
Perhaps by 'minimalists' you mean 'The Minimalists', i.e. these two dudes,
because that statement is otherwise very odd.

But maybe you thought the article and capital letter weren't adding value to
your life.

~~~
czechdeveloper
Yes, I meant that, sorry that it was not clear.

------
spodek
Minimalism is misnamed: [http://joshuaspodek.com/minimalism-misnamed-
maximalism](http://joshuaspodek.com/minimalism-misnamed-maximalism)

If someone doesn't value stuff, does value meaning, and gets rid of the former
to maximize the latter, why call attention to and name them by what they don't
value?

What we call minimalism comprises people who maximalize meaning, value,
importance, and purpose.

~~~
warent
My girlfriend and I are very minimalist (err... maximalist?) owning only a few
outfits each (no accessories), and just the bare necessities of home items. If
we find something has no utility, it gets donated or trashed.

That being said, "minimalism vs. maximalism" really seems like splitting hairs
here, as I don't think one implies something better than the other or is
inherently clearer.

~~~
dingaling
But such a form of minimalism won't work unless other people are non-
minimalists.

For example, if you find you need a trilobed screwdriver to repair one of your
few possessions you'll either have to borrow it from a friend or rent it[0].
Both those options require that someone else be non-minimalist for your
benefit.

If all people were strongly minimalist this would have the effect of moving
nearly all gadgets into the service domain. Screwdriver-as-service, ironing-
as-a-service, yard-brushing-as-a-service. Is that scenario really _less_
consumerist and less stressful than just going out and buying a screwdriver
and keeping it in a box in the garage?

[0] or buy it and then sell it when done, which i'll categorise as renting
here

~~~
dagw
_if you find you need a trilobed screwdriver to repair one of your few
possessions_

Pay someone to come and fix it or just throw it out and get a new one. Being
Minimalist doesn't have to mean being frugal.

~~~
AstralStorm
Then the only difference is that you do not keep things you do not use.
However it is a misnomer until you minimalize number of possessions to which
implies frugality to a point.

Not perhaps in the "buy cheapest" but "buy least".

------
dizzystar
Wow, I really didn't know my natural state of being was catching on.

It's interesting to read how people actively push themselves towards
minimalism. I have the opposite problem: if everything I own doesn't fit in an
airplane bag, I feel bogged down.

I truly dislike buying things. Furniture shopping is just the worst.

I guess it partly depends on what you value. I value experiences, like travel
and live music far more than I value a shiny thing or piece of clothing.

I've been asked advice on how to live without stuff... "How do I start
throwing things away?" I don't have an answer. I just don't want whatever it
is.

~~~
j7ake
Do you have a family or are you single ? Life changes when you are responsible
for others.

~~~
hycaria
This is such a bad excuse that comes up every single time on such topics. Your
life is what you make it. You can perfectly have a modest family life with a
limited number of posessions : how about all those families who travel or sail
the world ?

