
Coolest Cooler, $13M-funded Kickstarter project, needs another $15M - danso
http://www.oregonlive.com/window-shop/index.ssf/2016/03/coolest_cooler_15_million.html
======
Duhck
Ultimately the problem with most crowdfunded hardware products can be summed
up here:

>> Coolest wasn't able to manufacture the exact cooler in the promo videos.

>> "The Coolest Cooler in that video was a one-of a kind prototype," Grepper
said. "Ultimately it's not a scalable design – it's an industrial design."

>> The proof-of-concept prototype cost him $15,000 to make, he said.

>> Grepper had no idea how much each cooler would cost to manufacture.

>> "At the early stages, you simply can't get that information," he said.

A model != a DFMA'd product.

There's tooling costs (I suspect the Coolest Cooler has several hundreds of
thousands of dollars in tooling needs), there's supply chain, etc.

This takes time, testing, dozens of iterations, etc.

He sold a product he didn't understand the real cost of. Not maliciously but
because he was naive and didn't understand the process.

Knowing what your true landed BOM costs are can take over a year of modeling,
making production samples, negotiating with manufacturers and suppliers, etc.
Even then you wont really know the cost until you enter volume manufacturing
since there's scrap rate and QA issues you run into.

~~~
replicatorblog
This VC firm does a great job breaking down a lot of the mistakes that this
guy made and provides a set of frameworks startups can use to avoid this fate:
[https://medium.com/@BoltVC](https://medium.com/@BoltVC)

------
nefitty
A big problem with crowdfunding is that many backers don't seem to understand
the risk they are taking on. It is distressing to see pages and pages of
comments complaining about a project's failure, but in the same vein, I've
never seen a gambler bang on a slot machine because it didn't payout this
time. Is this due to a lack of basic business knowledge among the public?

I think a big reason I've never contributed to a campaign is because there's a
greater than 50% chance my money will evaporate.

~~~
jacquesm
> A big problem with crowdfunding is that many backers don't seem to
> understand the risk they are taking on.

The bigger problem is that the people starting crowdfunding initiatives have
no idea about what it takes to bring a new product to market, if they're not
outright scams.

~~~
Balgair
Related: [http://www.iflscience.com/technology/artificial-gills-
underw...](http://www.iflscience.com/technology/artificial-gills-underwater-
breathing-device-has-820000-funding-despite-being)

And yes, indegogo, but its basically the same platform as kickstarter.

~~~
slantyyz
It looks like I just got burned on an Indiegogo project myself
([https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/zaptip-the-world-s-
first-...](https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/zaptip-the-world-s-first-
magnetic-super-charger/x/7261196#/story)) - I was aware of the risks, but the
product was "just" a cable, so I considered it low risk. I had previously
participated in a couple of other Indiegogo projects worked out wonderfully.

The worst thing about my IndieGogo Zaptip failure is that there are now tons
of ZapTip knockoffs already available through Amazon, eBay and other channels,
and at lower price than what I paid to fund the Indiegogo project.

------
acomjean
Coolest Cooler always reminds me of the "I can't believe they invented it" on
the simpsons and the "S.S. Microwave".

[https://frinkiac.com/caption/S04E21/90156](https://frinkiac.com/caption/S04E21/90156)

or another quote from that episode "people are afraid of new things, you
should have taken an existing product and added a clock".

------
designium
I am amazed that the founder didn't plan the exact cost of each unit during
the kickstarter phase and I'm even more amazed that people are so careless to
put money in projects with no clear plan and cost figured out.

Please send me some money now for my virtual cat project. I just need to raise
$100MM. I promise it will deliver!!! =<O.0>=

~~~
cptskippy
I have a family member who knows the founders and apparently they're
completely nontechnical "idea guys" who have a trail of shitty projects like
this and have already moved on to other projects. So it's not that surprising
to me.

~~~
hoopism
This isn't an "everyday joe" who loved camping and hit upon a neat cooler
design...

He had been working to perfect his pitch on all sorts of novelty items.
Washington Post had an article on prior failures
([https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-
intersect/wp/2014/08...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-
intersect/wp/2014/08/28/ryan-grepper-inventor-of-the-coolest-cooler-failed-
many-times-before-raising-11-million-on-kickstarter/)).

Professional crowd funder looks like his only skill.

------
BryanBigs
Timely, since I had the chance to use this on the beach this week. My friend
ordered one after me - he got his 3 months ago. It looks like I'm going to get
diddly-squat. Having said that...it's a kick ass product. Kept beer cold on
our porch over 20 hours (probably would have been longer, we drank the
contents in that time). The blender churned out 3 full pitchers of margaritas
+ halfway through another - as we hung out on the beach. Was very easy to roll
on the sand. I'm more pissed the attitude this guy has had all along - "whoa,
it's hard to find reliable providers in China." "Shipping is hard!". I would
have paid more to cover the costs if they had just priced it out right. Now I
hope he ends up getting tied up in legal challenges - maybe that'll knock the
It's-Not-My-Fault attitude down a peg or two.

~~~
pgrote
Has there been an explanation as to why later backers received theirs before
early backers?

~~~
danso
I'm not sure about later backers, but as money ran out, they gave priority to
Amazon customers because it was priced at $499 on Amazon, not the $199 that
backers paid. The logic was that the retail purchases would subsidize the
early backers.

~~~
sokoloff
If you don't fulfill Amazon, you get kicked off Amazon, plus that's bringing
in about $450 per sale (after Amazon fees) as opposed to $0 for a Kickstarter
fulfillment.

------
compumike
Crowdfunding hardware is often a dangerous mix of "get this amazing
unsustainable discount over our future retail price" at a time when the per-
unit costs are highest and the up-front engineering costs are still unpaid
(and likely to grow from anyone's best estimates). This is an obvious recipe
for trouble.

That doesn't mean it isn't worth trying. But it does mean that project
creators should build in sufficient margins to absorb all of that, and project
backers should understand that asking a creator to deliver a not-yet-
production-ready product with near-zero margins is likely to end in a total
loss of their backing funds. It's possible that if you had paid more, you
might be likely to lose less.

------
andersen1488
""The Coolest Cooler in that video was a one-of a kind prototype," Grepper
said. "Ultimately it's not a scalable design – it's an industrial design."

The proof-of-concept prototype cost him $15,000 to make, he said."

"[After Amazon approached us] we recognized that every Coolest cost more than
each backer had given us for the manufacturing process,"

Incredible.

------
marknutter
Am I reading this right, that it's just the swiss-army- knife of coolers? I'd
ask why anyone would want this but the mob has clearly spoken. That being
said, why didn't he just take an existing cooler that's already available in
large quantities and figure out a clever way to enhance it with all these
capabilities? Maybe just swap out the cover?

~~~
ghaff
I daresay plastics are the cost issue here so I'm not sure swapping out the
cover would help. Personally, I'd have done this as some sort of cooler add-on
kit in a custom cloth case of some sort and pitched it as letting you use your
existing cooler or pick the cooler that meets your needs. But then, as I said
elsewhere, I'm not the audience and don't see the attraction :-)

------
mikestew
"Ultimately it's not a scalable design – it's an industrial design."

So which one of us doesn't understand what "industrial design" means? Because
my understanding says his statement is a contradiction. I thought part of
"industrial design" was to design things for mass production, not one-offs.

~~~
williwu
Actually industrial design doesn't mean the design will work for mass
production. Usually they should think about the manufacturing part as well.
That step is called Design for Manufacturing (DFM). Usually the mechanical
engineer works on the DFM part.

------
polartx
\----Round 1---- $13m raised 20k units shipped ~$650 per unit

\----Round 2---- $15m needed 36k units remaining ~$420 per unit

Obviously I'm not factoring in initial manufacturing costs.

Having 13 million to invest in manufacturing at scale, brought costs per unit
sold down 35%, which is good. But I don't know many people that would buy a
cooler for $500.

~~~
jandrese
The Kickstarter charged $165 or $185 per cooler.

What I don't understand is why this was so exciting in the first place. It
looks like a normal cooler with a few cheap accessories (ice crusher, blender,
light, usb charger, bluetooth speaker) and it's not even very big. Why were
people so damn excited about it that they were willing to put up $165 for this
Sharper Image wannabe.

Their website doesn't even talk about how good it is at being a cooler. How
long does ice stay frozen in the hot sun? Can you keep your meat from going
back over a long weekend at the campsite? Not that there is enough room in
this thing for a camping trip. It's apparently focused on the beers on the
beach crowd. How the hell did this shatter Kickstarter funding records?

~~~
ghaff
Yeah, I'm apparently not the audience. Yeti seems to be doing well selling
what are, to me, somewhat ridiculously expensive coolers but at least those
are optimized for actually keeping stuff cold. The accessories on this thing
are either gimmicks that I can see using once or twice because they're coo1--
Make a frozen margarita at the beach!--or they're easily replicated with an
inexpensive standalone speaker or whatever. (Indeed, there are also hand-
cranked and battery-powered blenders for camping.)

ADDED: >Sharper Image wannabe

I had to laugh. This is EXACTLY the sort of thing that one would expect to see
in a Sharper Image catalog.

~~~
ansible
Yeah, it is ridiculous. Even if the CC sold for exactly as advertised, and did
exactly as advertised... it still isn't a good buy.

So you use the blender for a while... and then it breaks (through no fault of
the cooler itself, say the dog chewed on it).

Now what? Send the whole thing back? Ditto for all the other crap tacked onto
it. After a couple things break on it, then it turns into a large piece of
junk.

And these things never work as well as dedicated devices.

~~~
ghaff
Furthermore, there's a lot to be said for a cooler that can get wet or covered
in sand, be hosed off, etc. while electronics are kept protected. If I really
wanted something like this for the beach, tailgating, or a boat, I'd just buy
whatever size/price point cooler met my needs (assuming I didn't already own
one), pick up an appropriate waterproof/water resistant bag, and fill it with
a battery-powered blender and whatever other accessories and eating/drinking
implements I wanted.

------
Smudge
The product design section of Kickstarter is basically the new "as seen on
TV." Except half the time they can't even deliver the product they're
pitching.

Kickstarter does a lot of great things, but it seems that the highest profile
projects never live up to their expectations, even when they are able to
deliver.

------
bhouston
The issue is he will only ship the existing orders if he gets $15M in
investment but a large part of that investment is to fund operations after
shipment of the existing coolers. Hmm....

Where has this money gone? I'd love if Kickstarters that failed had to get
audited and get those results posted publicly.

------
Negative1
I remember looking at the original campaign with fascination. The inventor had
already attempted a kickstarter campaign and failed. He came back with an
improved design but it was obvious that he did not increase his price
sufficiently to make up for the additional considerations in regards to
injection molds, tooling, BOM etc... Must admit I was super jealous when he
raised that record amount (I was running an unsuccessful kickstarter at the
same time which actually had realistic goals and costs) but the end result is
not a surprise.

I think he knew the cost was not realistic and chose to sell it anyways,
hoping to raise additional funds after the fact. Same thing happened with
Broken Age and you can bet it will happen again (people are very optimistic
for cool sounding products).

------
kin
When I saw the cooler I thought it was great and I would own it. But when I
finally saw the price tag on Amazon, I just couldn't justify the purchase. I
can't say the speaker is necessary and I wonder how much cheaper the cooler
would be if I could just remove that feature.

~~~
joshmn
I don't know why or how on earth this costs so much to make.

* Speaker? $5 for something decent enough to work. Find AmazonBasics supplier, crank that up to $10.

* Blender? I can buy a "good" blender from Hamilton Beach for $20.

* Plastic parts? I don't know. Can't be that much, can it?

* Power? $20 will get you a really nice battery. Just put in a power brick battery thingy.

* Bottle opener? $4 will get you the nicest one from China, and it's probably coated in diamonds.

~~~
ljk
what confuses me is it costs so much, but they want to make the cooler _look_
like any other $30 cooler? are people throwing money at this just because it
has some gimmick features?

~~~
joshmn
Where's Elon when you need him?

------
justin_vanw
I can imagine a conversation like this:

CC: I just raise 13M, I am hiring you as our lawyer.

Lawyer: Confirmed

CC: How much can I legally pay myself as CEO?

Lawyer: Literally all the money.

CC: Here is your check for $350k.

Lawyer: Always satisfying to do a good job for a client.

(CC has already left, moments later you see the CEO drive by the window in a
huge boat)

