
Tell HN: Take vacation - hippich
this is my last day of vacation in Mexico and I must tell you it re-energized me! if you didn&#x27;t take vacation for awhile - take it!
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DanielStraight
Let's see if I can cover this entire comment thread in one comment.

Taking a break is good for most people. It can help prevent burnout.

People vary greatly in their ability to take vacation due to income, work and
family requirements.

People vary even more in what they consider to be a good vacation. Some people
like a lot of activity. Some people like lying around. Some people honestly
don't like taking time off work. All of these are OK as long you do what works
for you.

People in the United States get, on average, significantly less vacation time
than their European counterparts.

Some companies have unlimited vacation policies, but unless the culture is
unusually positive, these policies are generally harmful in that they require
all vacation to be justified in some way.

In other words, there is no way to make a meaningful universal statement about
vacation.

~~~
my_username_is_
I'm curious if any companies have required (minimum) amounts of vacation.
Taking a break seems to be a general positive for productivity, but people
with unlimited vacation seem to not take it. What if you were obligated to?

~~~
erikw
Required vacation time is a security best practice, especially for anyone
handling money. This makes it more difficult to perpetrate fraud. It also
prevents institutional knowledge from being trapped with individuals, as at
least one other person must know how to perform the role of the vacationee.

~~~
delecti
Can you explain how it makes it more difficult to perpetuate fraud? I've never
worked handling money, so I can't picture how that would be the case.

~~~
zrail
Say you're a bank employee who handles money. It'd be pretty easy to just slip
some off the top of each stack every day and take it home. Or arrange the
software to skim some into a separate account and pull that money out often
enough that the balance never gets high enough to be suspicious.

Both of those things, plus many more, require daily or weekly effort. If
you're out of the office, something will go amiss and you'll get caught.

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joslin01
NEVER!! _hack hack hack hack hack_

Actually, I'm just wrapping up a ~4 month vacation after a grueling year of
creating a product, launching it, and failing. I was so cynical about
programming by the time it failed and felt like I lost the spark. It was just
a boring means to an end and everyday I had new ends to meet.

I finally feel good about programming again and I think I'm actually better
than ever. You really see the forest from the trees after being away from it
for awhile. I recommend a long break to anyone who is currently feeling like
programming has lost its magic. It hasn't -- it's still a wonderful means to
express your creativity.

~~~
wizzard
I am currently on an indefinite hiatus/sabbatical/vacation after quitting my
job at the beginning of June. I had been working on a project I didn't enjoy
for a year and a half, culminating in the most horrible failed iterations I've
ever been a part of: a new feature we started last November -- that should
have taken maybe two months -- didn't get finalized until May. I've never been
so discouraged and burned out on programming in my life.

I knew I'd need time to "heal" after that experience. It took a month and a
half but I'm finally starting to feel interested in coding again. I'm really
glad I took that time (and that I was lucky enough to have the means and an
understanding SO).

~~~
hipsterrific
If I didn't have bills I needed to pay, I would take a longer hiatus. Earlier
this year, I was let go from my position as a senior software engineer. My
review months before was like "you're a great dev, here's a 4% raise" and then
a few months later "Your performance is horrible, you're fired."

Immediately, I began looking for work but I knew I needed to heal from the
experience. I have a job now but there are times it crosses my mind that maybe
I should have taken more of a hiatus. But I had enough money in my savings for
only five months. I like my new job but there are times I get so tired, next
year I might just take a month off and get some rest.

~~~
wizzard
I'm sorry that happened to you. I think thoughtful feedback is so important
(for any job!) but it never seems to happen. If you're doing well, you might
get a generic pat on the back. If you go off the rails you don't hear about it
until it's practically too late, if at all. It's one of those things where if
everything's going OK, it's like your team doesn't even exist, but if
something goes wrong suddenly upper management knows all your names.

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zrail
In the last two years I've

* gotten cancer

* gone through surgery and chemotherapy

* beaten cancer

* watched my stepfather die of cancer

* wrote and self-published a book

* gotten married earlier than planned

* moved across the country

* watched my mother-in-law die of cancer (why we got married early)

* bought a house

* gotten married again on our original date

In that time I have been _away from work_ for quite a bit of time but I have
taken exactly three real days of "vacation", when we went on a short honeymoon
after the big wedding.

I need a break, preferably multiple consecutive months, but we don't have the
cash to make it through. And so I continue.

~~~
peterjancelis
Can you cut some expenses in a way that doesn't lower your self-perceived
standard of living too much? see www.mrmoneymustache.com for inspiration.

You seem to have a lot of resilience, so using more of your income to buy more
time should be an easy feat for you. Especially with the life perspective I am
sure you gained from going through all that.

Whatever you do, good luck.

~~~
zrail
Thank you for the recommendation. I've been devouring MMM since you posted and
I've already made a few changes to bring spending down.

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_delirium
I'm actually required to, oddly enough. Well, nobody will stop me from working
during the holiday if I want, but I have to file one and at least officially
be "on vacation", for one contiguous 3-week period every summer (defined as
between March 1 and September 30). Unless I get a manager's approval in
writing that special circumstances justify skipping the vacation this year.

(A financial reason is that the company doesn't want unused vacation accruing
on their books, because it represents a liability that in some circumstances
can be cashed out. A non-financial reason is that having a high % of employees
who don't take a proper summer holiday can lead to quality-of-workplace
statistics that look poor.)

~~~
njitguy
According to the Security+ exam, and I suppose other security recommendations,
is that it's a good idea to have mandatory vacations. It apparently can help
detect fraud and other issues.

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CalRobert
I moved to Europe, mostly because I wanted more vacation time and the
opportunity presented itself. Don't regret it for a minute.

Three and a half years ago I had 5 days of PTO per year. Admittedly it was a
crappy job, but even so.

Now I have 22 days' PTO, plus 12 annual holidays. I make more money and pay
less in rent, too.

~~~
geekam
Would you mind sharing which country are you working and what are the visa
restrictions, if any?

~~~
maccard
had a quick glance through his history, and it's ireland. (I'll remove this if
you want OP). Can I just throw in that Ireland has some definite advantages,
however living in Dublin is painfully expensive, and the money here (for lower
level positions at least) is less than that of the UK

~~~
CalRobert
You are correct, it's Ireland. As far as visa restrictions go it seems to be
somewhere between extremely difficult UK and relatively simple Germany.

Cost is all relative, I guess. Pay is lower than SF, but I also am paying less
than half of what I would for my apartment. Given that I was spending a lot of
money to take what vacation I could in Europe anyway I actually save a good
deal on vacation budget this way too.

I find I have to be careful in conversations because I sometimes gasp at how
cheap places are, perhaps insensitively. I guess I just got used to apartments
always being $2000+. Of course, it still stings that a "cheap" pint is €5 (I
remember two dollar beer night in college not so many years ago!)

~~~
maccard
> but I also am paying less than half of what I would for my apartment. Out of
> curiosity (I understand if you don't want to say) but roughly how much are
> you paying for your apartment, and how close to the city is it? I'm paying
> almost 1500 USD for my 2bed apt not far from the city centre, and the
> landlord is increasing the rent in September (I'm leaving anyway). The
> saving of ~500 dollars per month I would imagine doesn't last very long when
> you factor in everything else. I don't know what income differene you have,
> but a month ticket for bus only is 140 euro, (190 dollars), a beer is €5
> (cheap in the city centre)and I find shopping in general to be more
> expensive than home (outside Dublin, but still in Ireland).

~~~
CalRobert
No problem; it's useful information. €800 (about $1080 at the moment), and
next to Dublin castle, for a 1 bedroom apt in an old building with quirky
plumbing. As I mentioned, it's not the fanciest area, but it suits me nicely.
Bull and Castle is nearby and has a nice array of craft beers too. Work is
less than 10 minute's walk away. A place like this in SF close to the office,
tourist attractions, and not terribly high crime would be $2 grand+, I think.
Something like this:
[http://www.padmapper.com/show.php?source=3&id=193107035&src=...](http://www.padmapper.com/show.php?source=3&id=193107035&src=main)

I'm not sure what $500 per month you refer to, but I'm guessing transportation
costs. I have generally preferred living in places that didn't require owning
a car, and find it makes a huge difference. I was in Berkeley for a while, and
Santa Monica after that. Note that in Santa Monica I found it necessary to
share a car with the gf; You can get around SM fine with a bicycle but LA
remains a desolate suburban hellscape.

------
DanielBMarkham
I'm 49 years old. Almost 50. Been a hacker, entrepreneur, and coder all of my
life.

One of the things I've learned that I found most shocking? That changing
things up makes a huge difference in my productivity -- and it becomes more
and more difficult to do.

I think the term "vacation" is a bit loaded here. Sure, go to the beach.
Travel. But there's a deeper truth here: you need to regularly make yourself
work, relax, and play in different atmospheres. It's very good for you. So go
work at a coffee shop. Work in a city park. Take a week and live in a cabin
without electricity. Take your development team and go out to the parking
garage and work using cafeteria tables and metal chairs. Whatever. Purposely
vary the conditions and surroundings of your life. This is not an optimization
problem; you are not trying to find the perfect place. Instead, it's
diversity: people are very prone to getting in intellectual ruts. It's
difficult to see this when you're in one. Mixing up environments is a proven
way to identify this.

------
npsimons
I just took a weeklong backpack trip. Sure, getting out for an overnight on
the weekend is fun, but there's something that happens after more than a
couple of nights on the trail. You forget what day it is. You lose track of
time, and it doesn't matter because your only responsibilities are 1) hike to
your next camp 2) setup camp 3) make dinner. No email, no action item lists,
nothing but the freedom to think about nothing for a week. I can heartily
recommend it.

~~~
superplussed
Where were you backpacking? This sounds alot like Nepal, where I've been for
the last 2 months on a kind of workcation.

~~~
npsimons
Sierra Nevada.

An interesting follow up that just occurred to me: there was a surge in PCT
(Pacific Crest Trail) through hikers back during the dot-com bust. The theory
was that lots of unattached moderately wealthy suddenly jobless young people
took advantage of the situation. Since it does take something like 6 months
and about $7k (USD), it's something that I've never done and feel like maybe I
missed my opportunity when I was laid off. The younger and less attached you
are, the better, so just consider that the next time you are between jobs. Of
course, there's also other super long trails (AT, PNT, GET, etc) to take your
pick from.

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glasnoster
After a horrible year and a half, which included moving to a new city without
any support structures, working remotely for a company not geared for it,
losing my mom to suicide, working for a startup which I had to threaten to pay
me, doing part-time work for another startup which will probably not pay me,
and a failed relationship, I am happy to say that I have a month long holiday
abroad coming up soon!

Looking forward to the break and coming back with a clear head!

~~~
JakeKalstad
Shit brother, I'm looking forward to you getting a break now as well.

------
stygiansonic
Just finished a nice trip in the Rockies, including many day hikes. On some
trails, the isolation and quiet was astounding - sometimes an open space can
be the most silent and wonderful thing. (Not to mention the vistas, which were
awesome)

Sometimes, a change of scenery can be very fulfilling.

~~~
antjanus
Just went up to the Flatirons myself last month. It was amazing :) Not only
the nature but the towns around there were nice. Took awesome photos, felt re-
energized when i came back :)

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ascendantlogic
But bro I'm killing it working 23 hours a day 365 days a year. My VC tells me
this is the only way to be successful. Right? Right? Guys?

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rip747
Ever once in a while we see posts about how important it is to take a
vacation, but one thing we never see is about actually planning and budgeting
in order to be able to take one.

What are the ways people currently budget for vacations?

Personally the way I do it now is I actually have a separate checking account
that is used _specifically_ for vacations, _end of list_. Every time i do a
consulting gig, I break it down the money like this:

33% - into business checking account for taxes

the remaining 66% is broken down to:

25% - another business checking account for expenses 25% - into a personal
savings account 25% - into the vacation checking account 25% - to paying off
debt (CC, mortgage, whatever)

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domiono
There are times in a startup, where you simply have to do the work without
thinking too much. This is for instance when you have finished all your
wireframes and then you simply have to code it down for two months. This is
simply grunt work, where you don't need to think much, you only need to get it
done.

Then there are phases in a startup, where you need insane creativity. These
phases are for instance after you've found product/market fit, say you got to
10,000 users with your product, however, now you need to figure out how to get
to 100,000.

In these times it's not worth at all pushing 18h days, it's much better being
a balanced human being who goes out with friends, does their exercise and eats
well, because all you need at that point is ideas and creativity.

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irremediable
I had two weeks of vacation after finishing my masters, and am now back to
work until September, when I start my PhD. I'm grateful for those two weeks...
but I wish I could have afforded to take more time off.

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skizm
Whenever I take vacation all I think about is how many days left till I have
to go back to work. Vacations are like one big countdown clock looming over
me. I'm honestly less stressed at work I think.

~~~
Spooky23
You're stressed out.

Take two weeks. You'll be amazed how much better you feel week 2.

------
marknutter
Vacation doesn't have to involve going anywhere exotic, by the way. A vacation
should really just be a time you are free from your main responsibilities and
free from stress. So that means you could do it from home, but hacking away on
a side project you've been stressing about finishing may not be the best idea
(unless, of course, it causes you no stress).

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quaffapint
I can't afford going far or for long...

Anyone know of any sites that list nice affordable family vacations within
driving distance of x ?

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meat_fist
I usually get unbelievably depressed on the last day of my vacations because
it means I have to come back to my awful life.

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merlish
Good idea. I've got plenty of PTO days (which I've been rationing carefully
throughout the year), and I reckon it's definitely time to burn a few more
days for an ultra-long weekend.

Besides, the weather's novahot at the moment and it's quite hard to work when
you're being boiled alive.

------
ivanhoe
I think it's not the vacation itself, but the change of the environment what
makes the re-energizing effect. If you feel burned out and can't afford a real
vacation, just try changing a thing or two about your life routine every
week... even small changes can be really refreshing.

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schnevets
Income and work demands aren't a problem for me, but they are for most of the
close friends that I would want to vacation with. I have been putting off
arranging a trip for myself, and a big part of that is I don't think I would
enjoy myself nearly as much alone.

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donretag
That's funny you should mention vacation. Like many, I am a tad bit burnt out,
but my company will not let any employee take vacation in July to prepare for
their annual convention. Not a single employee can take off for 30 days,
regardless of position.

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jbrooksuk
I'm moving house on the 28th and I've taken a week off - it won't take me a
week but this way I get to move in (with the other halves parents, again (so
we can save for a house)), relax and take a well earned break.

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hedwall
Two weeks coming up! Another two weeks will be taken out at the end of the
year :)

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ScrewYouGuys
My vacation isn't far off at all now! First in a good few years, and my first
time abroad - certainly looking forward to living without stress for a short
while!

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dannyr
Last day of my 3-week solo backpacking trip in Brazil today. Feeling recharged
and I can't wait to get back into coding again.

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shaydoc
“A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and
in between he does what he wants to do.” -Bob Dylan

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ali00
I was just thinking about doing a 8-12 month around the world trip. Anyone
care to join?

Contact info in sig. (I'm based in SF)

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basicallydan
Welcome back to the real world :) I'm going on holiday at the end of August.
Sussex and the Edinburgh Fringe!

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dn2k
I'll be wandering around the Italian alps next week.. looking forward to come
back re-energized too ;)

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paf31
A week in Mexico starting tomorrow :P

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kordless
Sorry, I'm in launch mode. :)

~~~
BlakePetersen
Then get off HN! You got bugs to fix!

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SergeyDruid
can't wait for August to take a break from my daily job! The more I'll change
my lifestyle in this short time, the more my brain will "refresh". I hope
everyone here will find his own "vacation", regardless of the budget.

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nick_storm
I'm leaving for SF today...for vacation, in case that's not clear lol

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bkorte
Deal. Heading to Portland in a few weeks!

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tunnuz
Will do.

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cameron91
What did ya do there?

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Kiro
No. Nothing beats hoarding vacation days.

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SoBroke
Vacations are for the weak

~~~
thesteamboat
The weeks are for vacation.

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igorgue
How you gonna raise money or make your site work without JavaScript enabled if
you do that? smh.

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pawelkomarnicki
How come this shit got on the landing page?

~~~
iagooar
You would be surprised how many devs / techies don't take enough time off.

I used to work for a company where most of us had between 24 and 28 free days
/ year and it was pretty normal to see people having 40 or more days left,
counting the current and the previous year...

