

What if Government had a Google Buzz moment? - cjoh
http://sunlightlabs.com/blog/2010/what-if-government-had-google-buzz-moment/

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wooster
Um, no, we should not give the government room to screw up. The government
does not exist to innovate. Nor does it exist to create "products". It exists,
to quote the U.S. Constitution, to:

"establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common
defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to
ourselves and our Posterity"

Frankly, I'm surprised to see this coming from Sunlight Labs. The point of
open government data is not to innovate or develop products, it's to:

a) Give back to the people property which is rightfully theirs. Datasets
developed by the U.S. government belong to the people of the United States,
excepting in the cases where it doesn't (national security, personal privacy,
or otherwise legally restricted). Even then, there's usually a sunset
provision at which point the data should be made publicly available upon
request.

b) Provide transparency and promote the smooth functioning of participatory
democracy.

c) Support accountability in government.

~~~
cjoh
So my point is (I'm the author) is: Transparency requires innovation. It
requires government to take and make risks.

~~~
wooster
And I'm not exactly sure how your hypothetical example of the government doing
something illegal, irresponsible, dangerous, and unconstitutional is supposed
to support your point.

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olliesaunders
This makes me think: what should Google do to recover from this? People are
angry, they feel violated and betrayed. It's a public relations disaster.

My opinion is that Google needs to draw a line under this whole issue. They
need to hold up their hands say "you know what, we didn't realize what we were
doing here but we get it now, this was wrong, we're sorry." And within hours
of making that statement, pull the whole product off the Internet, and send
massive bunches of flowers to the people worst and most publicly affected by
the fiasco. In the end, Google is a company with a huge amount of our personal
data who's success depends on us trusting them with that data. The
precariousness of Google's possession of personal data is debated routinely.
And so far a lot of those discussions conclude with someone citing their motto
and impeccable past records (the China thing was awesome too). What now? Now,
that record has been tarnished. At what cost should that record be maintained?
I think killing off Buzz is a small price.

Google really needs to show everyone how seriously it takes people's privacy.
I hope they don't miss this opportunity to demonstrate that.

~~~
robotron
Who is angry? I'm not. They need to fix the privacy issues but not pull the
whole thing.

~~~
faragon
Well, I am. I'm willing to stop using gmail if Google doesn't step back.

~~~
hexis
I'm already making medium-term plans to run my own mail server.

~~~
pasbesoin
Also, someone started a thread here to discuss alternatives.

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1121269>

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ranprieur
I thought this article was going to be about what would happen if Google
suddenly exposed all the hidden connections among the people who run the
government.

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Semiapies
Different levels of government "innovate" all the time and very much dislike
any oversight or otherwise being open. Nor do many officials - especially at
higher levels - face any real consequences for "screw ups".

Somehow give them _more_ latitude? _Really?_

I am almost never this negative on a linked item, but this one is horrifyingly
naive. Hopefully, Clay Johnson isn't in a position at Sunlight Labs where he
needs to make judgments about the honesty of government officials.

~~~
cjoh
Are you kidding? Officials don't face any real consequences of Screw Ups? How
about Van Jones-- who, 8 years ago, said something stupid, and lost his job as
energy czar? There are dozens of casualties like this.

Let's not conflate oversight with openness, too. You can oversee an
institution without openness, but you usually can't be open without oversight.

My point is this: When google messes up, we give Google a chance to listen and
rectify. When Government messes up (which it always will, because it is run
and managed by human beings), we don't. And we ought to.

~~~
Semiapies
" _There are dozens of casualties like this._ "

And _thousands_ of such offenses. Hence the phrase "nor do many".

------
Splines
Sort of makes me wonder - is it possible to build a social graph from public
records? Does something like this exist already?

