

Another new feature in Opera 11: tab stacking - yread
http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/tab-stacking-is-here

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alextgordon
Maybe I use browsers differently to most people (I don't think so), but I
really feel these features to manage tabs are misguided.

I get through thousands of tabs a week. Tabs don't indicate a web page is
significant or persistent. They indicate that I wanted to have two pages open
at the same time. Thus it makes no sense to manage tabs: they are an effect of
untidiness, not a cause.

What these features are hinting at is some better way to handle common
[sites]. I have a dozen or sites that I check every day, and being able to
have those all open in one place would be great. But using the poor old _tab
system_ for this is not the answer. It already has a job.

~~~
henrymazza
I strongly believe in: ● space = area (programming, twitter, mail) ● window =
subject, search, etc ● tabs = the subject expanded (pages relative to a
search, links of an article)

Can you see? It has 3 levels of Hierarchy! If you use Google Chrome you have
only one! This stacking thing is another trying to circumvent some OS's crappy
UI. If something has to be done is go beyond the App centric paradigm and go
to the 'task' center paradigm (like Palm OS's stacks).

~~~
planckscnst
Actually, all those things can be handled by a competent window manager. If
you had the ability to have tags on your windows, and quickly change your view
based on those tags, that would be Awesome.

~~~
leif
Do you actually use it this way (with uzbl, for example)?

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planckscnst
I have Awesome window manager and Firefox with the Pentadactyl (and previously
Vimperator) plugin.

I use Awesome's tag system extensively. When tabs aren't in use, the task list
then looks and works like tabs - that is they are lined up across the top and
you can click on them.

Not only do you get the benefit of the tagging, Awesome can be controlled
completely by keyboard. I have mine setup to use Vi-style keybindings. Combine
that with both Firefox and tmux using Vi-style keybindings, and you get a
really cohesive, reinforcing keyboarding system.

It works great on my netbook for a couple of extra reasons: Firefox's chrome
in this setup takes up about 20 pixels (for the status bar, and even that can
be hidden if you want), and I don't have to use the horrible trackpad nearly
as much.

I do prefer this, but I should point out that there are a few of gotchas to
working without tabs. First, Firefox 3.6 is much slower opening a window than
a tab. Firefox 4 improves this quite a bit, but it's not yet stable. Second,
the Vimperator/Pentadactyl keystroke for opening a window takes two keys
(";w") instead of one ("f"); this is probably fixable, but I haven't done it
yet. Third, I haven't found a way to make a window open in the background yet;
that means to open a window, it's ";w [link]...[mod+j]" - I open a new window
then switch back to what I opened it from.

~~~
leif
I'm using vimperator now, I didn't know about pentadactyl, thanks!

I actually don't bother forcing everything into windows, I'm fine with firefox
managing its own tabs. In fact, I rarely have more than two windows on any one
tag (and I really only select one tag at a time...kind of a "everything runs
in fullscreen" mode for the most part).

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daralthus
I was just thinking to change from opera (that I love since forever) to ff4
because of the tab-candy feature. I tried, but I missed so much the features I
got used to, like mouse-gestures, notes, downloads, quickstart thumbnails, no
slowdowns...

Finally opera, again, has everything I need, and this tab management actually
feels so much more usable and faster then ff.

Thanks Opera!

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Indyan
Also new in Opera 11 is Web
Sockets:<http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/introducing-web-sockets/>

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nickolai
Isnt this pretty much the same as what firefox "tree style tab" addon has been
doing for some time already? Except for the preview option, but im not a big
fan of that anyway. And tree style tab was putting the tabs on the side, which
imho is better because it saves the precious(on widescreens) vertical space.

Anyway, good to see the cool concepts spread :)

~~~
CoryMathews
Opera has been able to move the tabs to the left side for a while. So combine
that with this new feature and you have the basic functionality of that "tree
style tab" addon except only 1 level deep but much more polished/usable.

~~~
planckscnst
More usable? I'd say definitely not. Tab-style-tree works automatically in the
way I like it to the best. If I want to further group things beyond what it
automatically does, I grab the tab and move it to where I want it - I don't
have to hover there until it snaps to stacked mode.

Furthermore: with Informational Tab, you get thumbnails on all your tabs; with
Multiple Tab Handler, you easily select many tabs to move to where you want
them. These three plugins work like a perfect trio.

~~~
jokermatt999
Even better, if you don't like the default behavior, it's highly configurable
based on how the tab is opened, and from where (although I don't believe site
specific options are available).

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RossM
I've been wanting to move away from Chrome for a while (too many issues in too
short a space of time). Opera looks to be the near-bleeding-edge browser I
actually want. Minimal UI, draft standards support, efficient and still finds
time to be innovative. If you stick with Chrome for the UI give this a try.

~~~
natmaster
I'm not intending to troll, but you seem to be describing Firefox more than
Opera. Minimal UI? Sure it only has one more button on the screen, but once
you open the context menu, or opera menu things get just as complicated as
they have always been for Opera. Not that it's necessarily bad - I think Opera
is a great browser, it's just the properties you describe seem to fit Firefox
4 more.

(To address 'draft standards support' - Opera doesn't even have the HTML5
parser or WebGL...the list goes on.)

~~~
RossM
Mm, when it comes to "minimal UI" I just want as much screen space for the
page as possible. At the moment Firefox's tabs don't overlap with the title
bar and I was surprised how much this annoys me - Chrome has spoiled me.

After using it for a few days I can't say I particularly like the menu system
(although it's smaller than Firefox's in terms or items. Ad blocking doesn't
seem to work particularly well either. Opera Link's useful but replicated by
every other browser than IE (and Safari? but I'd never use that). My previous
post was written on elation or something like it, I'm missing Chrome already.

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masklinn
Warning: not as good as Firefox 4's Tab Candy

~~~
RyanMcGreal
Interesting. I've been using the Tree Style Tab addon, which seems to achieve
the same goal of grouping and nesting with less administrative overhead:

<https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/5890/>

~~~
randoom
don't try Tree Style Tabs; ones hooked and you can never go back :)

No seriously, Tree Style Tab is the best experience I ever had as a notorious
tab user.

~~~
gnosis
"once hooked"

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petervandijck
Here are screenshots and a comparison with some other tab stacking evolutions
(amazon.com's): [http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/archives/2010/11/23/4824/tab-
st...](http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/archives/2010/11/23/4824/tab-stacking)

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natmaster
Finally someone implements the tab organization feature I've been peddling for
years.

My latest peddle attempt:
[https://mozillalabs.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5000...](https://mozillalabs.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5000&Focus=12592)

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moe
How about a screenshot?

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ukdm
I'll do you one better. Video: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drCAiTSAYdc>

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Hovertruck
I actually saw the video link in the article and came back to the comments
hoping for screenshots. Video typically makes me wait while the person
introduces themselves, explains what they're doing, and it's usually much more
of a time-sink than just looking at screens.

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baby
I don't get all the fuzz about that. I've been using Tree Style Tab [1] on
Firefox since ages and I think it does the work better.

[1] <https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/5890/>

~~~
gnosis
"fuss", not "fuzz"

~~~
LurkingGrue
I would have to put a person like that on a pedal stool.

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Dylan16807
I look forward to this once it actually works. Right now, when any stacks are
collapsed tab order breaks badly. And you can't have more than one
uncollapsed.

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pornel
It works almost exactly like iOS folders.

