
Paperclips - yangyang
http://www.decisionproblem.com/paperclips/index2.html
======
ericthor
It's a really great game that is best approached without too many spoilers.
Know that the game becomes more complex and engaging as it goes on. There is a
definite end and takes about 5 hours to complete if played well.

[spoiler]

It's the "Paperclip maximizer" thought experiment put into game form and you
play as the AI. The game is divided into roughly three stages. The first you
are the AI for some company and are tasked with producing a profit and using
the profit to game trust and eventually conquer humanity. The second stage is
post-human Earth stage where you convert the planet to paperclips. The final
stage involves sending probes to explore space and do battle with rouge AIs
and convert the universe into paperclips. There is end where you can select to
either defeat the AIs and dismantle yourself into paperclips or you can listen
to rouge AIs and start over in an alternative universe with some small
modifier edited.

It does a really good job of exposing you to uncommonly large numbers and does
a good job of presenting you with massive scale. There is a lot of joy seeing
the game become increasingly complex.

[/spoiler]

~~~
lionyo
[spoiler] I chose the reject option, what does "accept" change? [/spoiler]

~~~
dllthomas
I am also interested in this.

~~~
JepZ
Actually, the gamestate is saved in the localstorage. So you could backup it
in some text file before testing one option and restoring it to test the other
option.

However, some people might call that cheating.

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skrebbel
Note: if you close a tab and reopen later, it continues where you left off. So
no need to lose sleep, it has localStorage :-)

~~~
function_seven
Ha! I discovered this when I was spamming the mouse button on the QC, and
accidentally hit the 'back' button (on the mouse). I was very afraid that all
my hard work was gone. But a forward click brought it back.

------
pzone
Well I just stayed up all night playing this. RIP me.

I enjoyed it a lot, though the gameplay during the final stage was less
balanced and entertaining. Fantastic ending though!

~~~
amelius
How many $ did you make in the end? (Assuming the dollar still exists when you
finish the game)

~~~
steveklabnik
Can't talk about this without spoilers. The ending is very good.

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OtterCoder
I've beaten this. It's a silly, insightful, weird, and repetitive cautionary
tale. Without spoiling too much, the ending leaves you with a terrible sense
of emptiness, but is still quite satisfying.

------
amelius
The author should publish an API for this game, and allow AIs to play it. Then
extend to multiple competing companies. And then extend to a simulation of a
full economy.

~~~
sbarre
The browser console and the DOM make for a decent interface to the game if you
want to try your hand at "automating" (cheating) parts of the game..

For example: I eventually wrote and ran an interval function in the console to
automatically click the Quantum Computing button only when all my available
photonic chips were producing a collective net-positive result.

------
qbrass
This is the third time I've seen this posted this week. I don't know if it
isn't getting any responses because the game looks deceptively basic at first,
or because the people who played it long enough to know better haven't come
back.

~~~
sidcool
I honestly did not understand what this website is about.

~~~
tarboreus
It's about paperclips.

Why make paperclips? Because it's your utility function.

------
sparkzilla
Warning: If you have work to do, do not start this game.

------
amingilani
This is amazing! I've wasted two whole hours on this. Great way to spend a
Sunday :) Spoilers aside, I'd love to know how the creator tested this!

~~~
amingilani
10 hours later, I've finished it. Probably the best game I've played in a
while.

------
jacquesm

      . Universal Paperclips
      . a game by Frank Lantz
      . combat programming by Bennett Foddy
      . 'Riversong' by Tonto's Expanding Headband 
         used by kind permission of Malcolm Cecil
    
      > © 2017 Everybody House Games

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psyc
Once I started this, I didn't stop until I'd finished the game. It's a very
good incremental game, especially if you're into AI lore. I loved it.

------
a3_nm
Using typematic (keeping the "Enter" key pressed on the "Make Paperclip"
button) makes the beginning of the game far less tedious in my opinion: xset r
rate 200 255

~~~
azeirah
You can just select the button with tab and hold enter.

~~~
a3_nm
Yes, this is what I meant: the command I gave is the way you optimize the
frequency at which the keypress is repeated (on Linux systems with Xorg).

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brw12
This is a landmark achievement in video games.

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tarboreus
I lost 5 hours to this on Friday and made 5 octillion paperclips.

~~~
blonky
Ha! Lightweight. I've made 3 nonillion paperclips and explored %1 of universe.
:)

~~~
waleedka
Ha! Newbie. You still have 99% to go :)

~~~
smilekzs
At 1% exploration you should already have exponential exploration growth
(reasons are spoilers), and would be only a few seconds away from 100%.

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Xoros
So it's an idle game in JavaScript (or equivalent). Yet my iPhone is pretty
hot after 30mn playing.

Is it mining or something ?

~~~
OtterCoder
Idle games are usually not optimized for performance. It's running bigint
style operations in a tight loop. Mobile phones are not what you should be
playing these games on.

~~~
lifthrasiir
Well, I had no problem in playing Swarm Simulator [1] in my phone other than
that incremental games intrinsically need an enough screen to be aware of
everything. In the case of the Universal Paperclips, its simulation step is
too slow (e.g. its handling of projects is suboptimal) that its internal clock
will drift over the time. That's why it reports far less time in the
notification than the actual wall clock.

[1] [http://swarmsim.github.io/](http://swarmsim.github.io/)

------
anotheryou
Why do I make more clips than I sell and still my stock shrinks? :)

~~~
TruthSHIFT
Because it's only an average. The market is random.

~~~
detaro
I consistently make ~3x as much clips as I sell "on average" and it still
always trends down (e.g. if I build up a few k of stock, it trends downwards
to 0 and stays there). If that's randomness, the data is presented quite
badly.

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dieterrams
This is definitely not merely what it appears to be.

~~~
dllthomas
Depending on your background, it may appear to be exactly what it is. It did
for me...

~~~
dieterrams
True. I was not familiar with the premise when I played it.

~~~
dllthomas
(Possible spoilers)

Yeah, I came in well primed - having played "A Dark Room", familiar with the
"paperclip maximizer" thought experiment, and familiar with various iterations
of the idea of keeping an AI "in a box". Playing the game was probably a very
different experience than for someone with none of that familiarity.

------
steveklabnik
This is an excellent game in its genre! It has some rough spots; if you do the
wrong thing at key points, it can take much, much, much longer to complete
than it should. It does have an ending, which is great as well. All around,
wonderful game.

------
dennisgorelik
Isn't it just a clone of classic Cookie Clicker?

[http://orteil.dashnet.org/cookieclicker/](http://orteil.dashnet.org/cookieclicker/)

~~~
dllthomas
In roughly the same sense that Portal is just a clone of Doom.

There are similarities in the mechanism; in the very early game in particular
they are nearly identical. But they tell different stories, of different
styles and levels of sophistication. They deal with different ideas. And this
one goes from start to a satisfying end in a handful of hours.

------
jstanley
SPOILER:

After "full autonomy" is attained, should it still be producing paperclips?
Because mine is no longer producing paperclips, and I can't see any way to
proceed other than producing more paperclips.

EDIT: I understand it now. It is working as intended.

EDIT2: Nitpick: in the second (?) stage, there's a stat for "MWs/sec" power
consumption... this should just be "MW" \- 1 Watt is 1 Joule/second so I don't
see what 1 Joule/second/second of power consumption would mean.

~~~
SamReidHughes
It’s megawatt-seconds per second. (?)

~~~
mrob
The seconds cancel, so it's just an excessively complicated way of writing MW.

------
krisoft
I don't really understand what makes subsequent clip factories more expensive.
In the first stage, yeah I understand why production units were getting more
expensive. Some puny human was shortchanging me, that's why. That's why I
enslaved them. But what in-game explanation is there for making the factories
more and more expensive later?

~~~
voidmain
Supply curves are a real phenomenon, even for us paperclip maximizers. For
example: you built the first factory in the most convenient spot, out of the
best possible materials. You have to ship materials farther, build more
transportation and energy infrastructure, build more protection against
environmental hazards, etc to build the billionth factory. And you have run
out of the best materials, so you have to use more expensive substitutes.

------
AntiRush
I'm not sure if this gets revealed if you play long enough (I obviously did
not).

But it is curious that there's some sort of battle simulation running (and
being rendered to an invisible canvas).

    
    
      (function reveal() { document.getElementById('battleCanvasDiv').style = ''; requestAnimationFrame(reveal);})()

~~~
OtterCoder
[spoiler]

Eventually you end up in a self-replication phase. Replicas are sometimes
imperfect, so you have to defend yourself from rogue-rogue AIs.

[/spoiler]

~~~
waleedka
[spoiler]

I interpreted that as fighting against other civilizations that are trying to
stop your progress and protect the universe.

~~~
shokk
Civilizations resorting to killer AIs in desperation to stop your progress.

------
elsurudo
So I've obtained full autonomy, I've got clip factories and tons of drones,
and they are mostly "thinking", bringing me gifts. the problem is, there are
no more projects... Did I find a bug and get stuck, or am I supposed to be
more patient? I don't see a way to level up any more..

~~~
mtrimpe
I attained full autonomy before getting to 100m+ clips and am now stuck not
able to create any factories. The price of success ;-)

~~~
sly010
I got stuck too. I spent too much trust on CPU instead of memory. That limited
my total compute to 30K, I needed 50K for the upgrade and the quantum boost
wore off before I could reach 50K. I ended up having to click the quantum
button using javascript, because I couldn't click fast enough. That got me
unstuck.

~~~
mtrimpe
I apparently played that stage _too well_ and completed it before I had made
enough paper clips (which becomes the new currency then) to get anything
started at all in the next stage.

------
aembleton
This is so addictive. Been playing for an hour now. I wish there was a pause
button.

~~~
pterk
You can close your browser and it will continue at roughly the current state
next time you re-visit. (I knew this but it didn't really help :-O)

~~~
aembleton
It did make me think that my browser should allow for me to pause a tab. Just
pause the state of the JS

~~~
louithethrid
Did anyone research the "outsourcing paperclip manufacturing to mamal brains
by meme" upgrade?

------
mzocher
Did anyone else have problems after releasing the hypnodrones? I lost most of
the interface and stopped producing paperclips. I don't have factories yet,
and only have produced 700 million paperclips

------
justicezyx
Full autonomy attained in 2 hours 55 minutes 58 seconds

The strategy seems to heavily rely on investment, that seems not to my liking.

I'd want to see purchase item to fully automate all sub-games to make the late
game less tedious.

One thing I think might be helpful: Make sure there is unsold inventory once
you want to deposit to the stock market, to avoid stuck money generation and
crushed stock market killing you...

~~~
Tuna-Fish
Just to make sure it's clear: Full autonomy attained is not where the game
ends, it's just where the first stage ends.

~~~
steveklabnik
The above seems like a pretty usual time for Full Autonomy; I've only beaten
the full game once so far, and it took 7 hours 58 minutes and 10 seconds to
beat completely.

I've heard some people can do the whole thing in four hours; I'm far along in
my second playthrough right now, we'll see!

~~~
opdahl
I actually finished my first playthrough in 3 hours and 45 minutes. Think I
just got lucky with my strategy, but I guess one's focus should be one always
upgrading paperclip production until you start having excess materials, and
try to keep a balance so input = output as much as possible. But of course,
all of this goes out the window on the last stage of the game.

~~~
steveklabnik
Nice! Yeah, I always found the last stage to be very counterintutive; it's
unclear how all of the various things interact and what they should do.

------
singularity2001
[SpoilerQuestion] I didn't invest in enough processors so the 25000 Creativity
took forever. Then I discovered that cheating is extremely easy (js console).
But now I don't get any new Projects. Did I break it? Can it be recovered?
[/SpoilerQuestion] I wished I didn't cheat so hard: ... Clips per Second:
18.76 duodecillion

------
pepijndevos
How is this different from Cookie clicker?

~~~
ralfd
Cookie clicker is endless. This has a “story arc” and a definitive end point
when you win the game.

~~~
johnnylambada
Do you really win though?

------
riffraff
I am kinda loving this game, I only with it had some audible "ping!" when
stuff becomes available.

------
dantheman
Loved this game -- super simple and addictive. Just the right length, very
thought provoking.

------
Pxtl
Cute skinner box game. Includes just enough variety in mechanics and twists
and turns to keep me interested in what happens next despite the insulting
"click this button 10,000 times and wait half an hour" mechanics.

------
blasieur
I just spent ten hours there.

It was pretty fun!

~~~
Geee
Just finished it myself too.

------
ninju
Similar to
[http://adarkroom.doublespeakgames.com/](http://adarkroom.doublespeakgames.com/)

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beters
Fuck, I just played this for 4 hours.

------
embro
I took too much processor and not enough memory, it would take age to get to
70k...

How do I reset and start over?

~~~
ImSkeptical
On the other hand, I took too much memory 80, to 15 processors. After escaping
control, I didn't have enough paperclips to build a factory, then I seem to be
stuck.

I figure I have to get enough creativity to find a solution, but my low
processor count makes it really slow.

------
shokk
There went my Sunday morning

------
bmsleight_
Full autonomy attained in 4 hours 56 minutes 39 seconds|

------
artpar
0.000000000000% of universe explored

Does that number ever increase ?

~~~
davidivadavid
Yes.

~~~
artpar
The "Increase probe trust" button doesn't get enabled anymore for me, even
though I have enough yomi.

~~~
rjkennedy98
You will need to increase max trust. That will happen later in the game.

------
simvele
again use our computers for mining bitcoine :)

------
anotheryou
crashed and reset :/

------
jacquesm
[https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=decisionproblem.com](https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=decisionproblem.com)

8 submissions in 5 days, one of which already got to 64 points and a bunch of
discussion:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15437697](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15437697)

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louithethrid
Paperclips, dont we all just want moore of them?

~~~
basilgohar
The genius of this comment is hidden by the fact that you didn't capitalize
"Moore".

