
Under the Influence: New York Hardcore - joshrotenberg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRoEdcBgH2Q
======
ilamont
I used to listen to hardcore in the 80s and went to a lot of shows in Boston
and a few in the NY area too. One of the interesting aspects of the scenes is
they were really local (which led to intense and sometimes violent rivalries)
and highly dependent on word of mouth, fanzines, and pre-Web distribution
channels such as college radio, clubs, and special record stores.

I always wondered what happened to the people. It’s cool to see that this
music led to some really creative careers and different ways of thinking that
they’ve carried through to the present. For myself, it sparked a DIY spirit
and an idea that alternative paths can lead to worthwhile endeavors.

One thing that surprised me in this video is the fact that the music lives on
and has sprouted new hardcore scenes, including overseas. I’ve gotten the
sense in the past few years that guitar-oriented rock is fading as fans age,
but it was refreshing to see young people still getting into the music and the
spirit. It’s totally underground, but that’s OK, too ...

~~~
metaobject
Maybe it's just observer bias, but it seems to me that the kids I used to hang
out with when I'd go to hardcore shows in DC in the 80s and early 90s were
some of the most creative and smartest kids I met. A lot of them went into
software development (CS, CE, EE degrees) or some sort of visual arts career.
There's something motivational about the music.

I still listen to old bad brains, cro-mags, youth of today, warzone, etc when
I need to bang out some code (not really for when I have to design something,
though). Overall, it's a really positive scene. I feel that a lot of people
don't really get that, though.

~~~
nate_meurer
Absolutely. People who aren't going to be interested anyway often don't look
past the names. E.g., Hatebreed, one of the most relentlessly positive and
inclusive bands out there. And Jamie Jasta is the very definition of DIY.

------
joshrotenberg
If you're a hardcore fan, the series on Judge is good, too:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eHPIBP5a0Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eHPIBP5a0Y)

~~~
careersuicide
The Judge show in Austin at The Mohawk during Fun Fun Fun Fest 2013 was one of
the best things I've ever seen. It was inside, so in a room that's about 20
feet by 25 feet, with a 2.5 foot stage. Completely packed with people. As soon
as they started playing it immediately turned into one of those rare "mosh to
survive" situations. If you're standing still you're probably not going to
leave without getting seriously hurt.

The best part was how incredibly close to the records they sounded. It was
obvious that they still loved what they were doing despite how long it had
been since they were last around. Sometimes older bands that get back together
just seem to be going through the motions. Judge definitely wasn't.

~~~
santaclaus
I think the first hardcore show I saw was an all ages show headlined by
Converge when I was 16 or 17, right when they dropped their Jane Doe album. It
was total insanity -- kids were hanging off the rafters in the venue and
falling 10 feet into the pit, feet first stage diving so people were getting
drop kicked, at one point the bouncers tried to stop kids from jumping on
stage and formed a wall up front, which resulted in a gang of about ten kids
tackling them and punching them in the middle of the set. The venue owners
pulled the sound and had to call the cops to break up the brawl... needless to
say there were no more hardcore shows at the venue, and the local scene
quickly fizzled out due to the insanity.

~~~
metaobject
Maybe it's because I'm old and not used to that sort of moshing, but that just
doesn't sound enjoyable. Back in the day (get off my lawn!), the pit was a
strange mix between violence and friendliness. If someone fell, they'd
immediately get picked up. If someone was getting pummeled, they'd get carried
out of the pit. Stage dives were fun for the diver and crowd.

Sorry to sound like an old man, but I just don't understand this latest
version of moshing. Maybe I need to go to one of these shows and get in the
pit to see if I'm missing something (blow off some steam).

~~~
careersuicide
If I'm honest with myself, part of what really attracted me to hardcore punk
as a teenager was the risk of violence at shows. It's rare that anyone gets
seriously injured, but there's almost always this sense of tension and looming
chaos. I'm a couple of months away from being 30 now. I still go to shows on a
regular basis and that's still part of the appeal.

It's exactly like you said, "a strange mix between violence and friendliness".
I'm usually friends with nearly every single person in the room but much of
what happens would constitute assault in any other context. People still pick
each other up when they fall, even that person just punched them in the back
of the head. I suspect you'd find very little has actually changed.

On a semi-tangential note: It's always so amusing trying to explain this sort
of thing to someone who has never been a part of punk. Another commenter in
this thread said that it's self regulating. And that's what so many people
don't get. There are rules. Unspoken ones, but they are there. Everyone in the
room knows when something is actually out of hand. It may look like total
mayhem at times to the untrained eye but if you've been around long enough you
see the same sort of organic patterns of behavior at every show. Sometimes I'm
inclined to think you've never really connected with others until you've been
to a punk show with a hundred other like minded people crammed into a tiny dim
smelly space with terrible music playing as loud as the speakers will allow,
all the while loving every moment.

~~~
metaobject
Great comment. Thanks for taking the time to reply. It sounds like, although
it may be a bit more violent then in my days, it's still the mix of violence
and friendliness. This makes me happy. That's what will keep the HC scene
going into the future.

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SixteenBlue
I don't get why this is on Hacker News, but I like it.

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catshirt
i had the pleasure of playing CBGB before it closed, and ABC No Rio before i
stopped playing out. i've opened or headlined for a few bands in the
documentary as well.

i mostly just want to brag, it is very rare my interests intersect like this.
so i'll try to add some value: there is something we can all learn about
community from the hardcore scene. regardless of how large it grows or how
transient members can be, it is self policing of it's values which remain
unchanged for probably 40 years now. it remains original and pure in a way
that HN couldn't dream of.

~~~
metaobject
Would you want to say which band you played in?

~~~
catshirt
i played in "The Banner" and "Pellinore". neither is a staple of the New York
Hardcore scene, but I'd like to think anyone involved in the NJ/NY scene from
2004-2012 is probably familiar. both are on Spotify, if you care to listen. :)

this is obviously kind of new school with respect to the documentary, but they
feature some newer bands so I thought it was fair game. :)

~~~
vogt
Gosh, I used to love The Banner. I can't believe this thread is seriously
happening on Hacker News but it's amazing.

I was at this show with Shai Hulud (all time favorite status) at ABC No Rio
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_52HtykF1gs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_52HtykF1gs).

~~~
catshirt
hahaha, awesome m8. your comment made my day. :)

the odds of seeing a thread like this on HN seem slim, and the odds someone
here is familiar with one of my bands even slimmer.

i stopped playing with them in 2009 when i landed a gig in the startup world
that was too hard to pass up, so unfortunately i wasn't actually at the show
in the video. but it still means a lot to me to see it posted here. :)

------
adamlaiacano
Anyone interested in both NYHC and HN would be into this if they haven't seen
it (I'm sure it's been posted here before): the history of the old Kickstarter
office, which is across the street from ABC No Rio, and is also the location
of the Rancid "Time Bomb" video.

[http://fredbenenson.com/2014/01/19/digital-forensics-
rancid-...](http://fredbenenson.com/2014/01/19/digital-forensics-rancid-reas-
kickstarter-hq/)

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unicornporn
Really surprised to see this on the front page. Hardcore was my youth is a
huge part of me still.

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driverdan
If you liked this I recommend the documentary American Hardcore. It takes a
look at the early hardcore punk scene with tons of interviews and footage.

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eldude
With so much politicization on the internet today, I was skeptical while I
watched this, thinking there would be an ulterior message, but it's actually
really good. I enjoyed watching it a lot. I also am not sure if this should be
on HN, but it was enjoyable enough that I'm cool with it.

~~~
peterwwillis
It's okay to mix hacker things and non-hacker-related things if they're
interesting. It's how I live my life, actually.

------
vondur
I've been going to Agnostic Front shows since the late 80's, always a good
time.

------
eevilspock
What stood out for me was I didn't notice a single woman out of the hundreds
of people shown in this video. And with a few exceptions they were all white.

I very much want to know the attitudes of all those white men toward women and
non-whites.

~~~
xdissent
There are in fact plenty of hardcore bands from past and present with non-
white/female/lgbt members. Bad Brains, Limpwrist, The Comes... Of course there
are some openly anti-female/non-white/lgbt bands, but they're by no means the
norm. My experience in punk and hardcore was defined by the open and accepting
nature of the people in the scene. Our local venue's official motto was "NO
RACIST, SEXIST, OR HOMOPHOBIC SHIT TOLERATED" (Lucy's Record shop in
Nashville)

