
Robinhood goes down again, during another historic trading day - ericliuche
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/09/robinhood-app-down-again-during-another-historic-trading-day.html
======
dang
Previous related threads:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22480260](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22480260)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22477567](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22477567)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22475019](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22475019)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22468361](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22468361)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22465178](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22465178)

------
rococode
Wow... Being down once - OK, it was record-high volume, servers were strained.
Twice - well, it was only a day after the first time and it takes time to fix
these things. But a third time, nearly a week after the first incident (and
once again on a volatile day where users stand to gain/lose a lot of money)?
Really hard to think of any acceptable justification for that.

~~~
Traster
The simple answer is that the reason the system failed the first time wasn't
easy to fix in the short term. Either they need to acquire more hardware
resources or redesign some system so that it scales better. Not everything can
be fixed overnight. Take a look at reddit - that's a website that collapsed
repeatedly for months and months and months. Sometimes it's not something you
can just 'fix'.

~~~
manigandham
Robinhood is nothing like Reddit. It has a much bigger valuation, more
resources, strict regulations to follow, and the responsibility of safely
handling money for millions of people. This should be fixed within days even
if it means redesigning the entire system.

The last blog post blamed overloaded DNS so it doesn't seem like a major
architectural problem, which is why it's surprising that they're down again.

~~~
tengbretson
> This should be fixed within days even if it means redesigning the entire
> system.

Please tell me you do not manage a team of software developers.

~~~
HenryBemis
The last 20 years I have been working in heavily regulated environments; in
cock-ups like this were your Retail clients got royally screwed (for a second
time in such a short period), on a repeat issue, the hammer will fall HARD on
their heads. Anyone wanted to sell to minimize losses has been severely
damaged.

There are many ways to resolve these issues FAST. The easy way is to throw
money at this. Go tomorrow (literally) and bypass all procurement controls and
go to a mega big provider and scale this asap. Any financial services with a
half decent IT has done the paper exercise to this scenario (at least for the
purposes of BCP/DRP). The slow/better/mature way may be too slow, especially
with the current market conditions.

The RH folks will definitely get a visit from SEC, their external auditor, and
their external auditor will get a visit from SEC.(their auditor will be in the
deepest of shits)(how come they failed to spot such a going concern
issue?)(what the hell were they looking for on their audits?)(did they only
send juniors over there?)

I feel sorry for the retail traders that got knocked down. I think that anyone
locked in buying at 27-28k (US30) should wait 6 months to breakeven and after
the US elections (irrespective of the winner) there will probably be a rally.

~~~
pmart123
This is why you would use IB for a retail brokerage account versus the "cooler
app" if you care about execution and uptime.

~~~
exabytenom
They aren't that fantastic either. They had issues today as well, I couldn't
exit out of spreads, so I had to liquidate everything and that was failing
too. It was a hot mess. Edit: I didn't actually want to liquidate all my
holdings but it was better than staying in and risking everything else.

------
chasingthewind
Matt Levine had some interesting (and funny!) insights the last time [0]

> It is well known that one of the best services a retail broker can provide
> is not answering the phones during a crash. The market is down, the
> customers panic, their timing is terrible, they want to sell at the bottom,
> they call you up to say “sell everything,” you say “we’re sorry all our
> representatives are assisting other customers, your call is important to
> us,” they hang up and get distracted, the market rallies, they forget about
> selling, you have saved them a fortune, good work.

[0]
[https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-03-03/robinh...](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-03-03/robinhood-
picked-a-bad-day-to-break)

~~~
crazygringo
I just feel for the smart investors calling up because they want to BUY
everything... and can't get through :P

~~~
totalZero
Buying the dip always feels intelligent in a bull market. In a bear market,
it's not so wise.

The future is unknown to all of us. In some cases, looks are not deceiving.
When the market appears to be on the cusp of freefall, it can in fact
accelerate downward.

~~~
piffey
There's also the saying though of "buy when there's blood in the streets,
especially if it's your blood". All got to go up sometime. Just how much
capital do you have to wait out the drop?

~~~
Finnucane
>All got to go up sometime.

Why?

~~~
wsc981
I view it as such: do you believe we have achieved peak efficiency with
regards to production of goods and providing services? If not, there’s room
for the economy to grow.

I am not an economist though, this is just my layman’s view.

~~~
jjeaff
The actual question is whether the market thinks that future efficiency gains
are on the way or not. If the market does, then that efficiency is already
priced in and you can't make any money off of it.

What you actually have to figure out is: is there any unexpected future
efficiency gains that the market doesn't expect. You have to know something
that the market does not.

~~~
strbean
> The actual question is whether the market thinks that future efficiency
> gains are on the way or not. If the market does, then that efficiency is
> already priced in and you can't make any money off of it.

Isn't this ignoring opportunity cost, uncertainty, etc.? If the expectation of
future gains is priced in, wouldn't treasury bonds sell for face value +
remaining interest on the secondary market?

~~~
outworlder
I guess they are assuming perfect knowledge.

~~~
strbean
I'm sure all the players are acting rationally as well!

------
Havoc
RIP RH.

Their target audience is casual investors. The kind of people easily
influenced by reddit/twitter sentiment.

The fact that wallstreetbets made a PREEMPTIVE RH goes down thread [0] (2500
comments) is pretty conclusive proof that they're never living this one down.

[0]
[https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/fftyri/pree...](https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/fftyri/preemptive_robinhood_crash_thread_2_the_sequel/)

------
lm28469
This is a good reminder that all these new mobile(brokers|banks|&c.) are not
as good as the historical systems that have been stress tested for decades.
All is good when everything works as expected but as soon as the slightest
issue arise you're in for a ride.

~~~
dx87
That's what I think of every time I see a post about some new VC backed
startup that says they are going to disrupt an industry by creating a lean
product that cuts out all of the unnecessary cruft and legacy systems. People
need to learn that there's usually a reason something is done a certain way,
and having barrels of VC money doesn't make you an expert in a field.

~~~
robjan
Ultimately, RH is backed by a legacy system somewhere. I believe they custom
built their OMS (order management system) which was the previous bottleneck
but somewhere between RH and the other side of the order is a legacy system
that they can't disrupt.

~~~
dannyw
To claim that RH would outscale NYSE, NASDAQ, and market makers like Citadel
and Renaissance Technologies is absurd.

It's like saying Airbnb is taking down root level DNS servers.

~~~
dehrmann
> Renaissance Technologies

I didn't realize they were a big player in this game. Citadel definitely is,
though.

------
gadnuk
It's always been either completely down or having a huge lag in executing
orders at market open for the last 6 business days. That leap year bug was a
hoax. Robinhood just can't scale under heavy load.

I wonder if people will leave the platform en masse to alternatives as most
brokers have no fees on trades these days.

~~~
xenospn
Something tells me Robinhood users will abandon stocks altogether after this
week.

~~~
Gunax
I never understood the appeal of using a telephone to trade one's life savings
anyway.

~~~
noirbot
I don't see how it's worse to do it on a phone than your laptop, or over the
phone with a broker via a voice call?

Most folks I know who use RH just use it as a fun little side gamble/game.
Small-ish amounts of money, something they could afford to lose, with the rest
in more stable funds or investments.

~~~
SpicyLemonZest
I agree, both that that's my experience and that it's the right way to use RH.
But then that means this isn't exactly an existential crisis; if you can't run
your side gamble during some periods of high market volatility, does it really
matter?

~~~
noirbot
On one hand, now is a fun/important time to be messing with your side gamble.
It'd be like if a betting site went down the day of the Super Bowl. If you're
just using RH to gamble and day-trade, periods of high volatility are some of
the most fun times to be actively trading!

On the other hand, I don't really care. I'll be fine. Most of the folks I know
who use RH are just joking about it being down. It's annoying, but no one's
broken up about it. A lot of the folks casting their anger at RH seem to be
folks who already dislike it and probably don't use it?

Professional or large-scaled investors with large sums invested probably
aren't using RH for a lot of reasons even before you get to the downtime
issues.

------
blantonl
Merrill Lynch / Bank of America's trading platform is also down... so this
isn't limited to Robin Hood. I was completely unable to place any trades or
even check balances during the market opening this morning.

However, engineering HEADS SHOULD ROLL. In the era of on demand computing,
near limitless cloud resources, etc, these engineering teams should have
already had capacity planning ready to go for these trading platforms. I'm
extremely disappointed - these engineers LIVE for this stuff, and they dropped
the ball.

Again, heads should roll. This is not some data center that caught fire, this
is capacity planning at its lowest common denominator.

~~~
avvt4avaw
The market hit a circuit breaker this morning when it was 7% down. No one
could trade at the open, not even professionals, because the market was
stopped.

~~~
Frost1x
That doesn't seem to be the reason Robinhood is having issues.

I don't know if it was the case for the two other platforms OP mentioned but
Robinhood seems to have some issues handling the request volumes.

------
simplecto
I have empathy for the engineers there. Here's hoping they get the resources
and support they need.

After vents like this juniors turn into seniors, seniors into VPs, and VPs
going on sabbatical.

~~~
nathanaldensr
The leap from senior developer to _vice president_ is a lot further than
you're implying... _a lot_ further.

~~~
georgyo
In most financial companies, the next step up from senior developer is VP.

~~~
ineedasername
What sort of VP, IT/Development?

~~~
dhosek
It's just a weird financial thing. Everyone gets to be a VP. I was actually a
bit embarrassed by having the title when I worked at BofA. It's not even a
manager level. I was what would be a senior developer anywhere else.

------
manigandham
Robinhood blamed their DNS system being overloaded last time [1]. Also RH (and
other brokers) only show quotes and forward orders with some basic
calculations to their exchange partners. They should not be anywhere near the
same load as the exchanges. All this points to major architectural problems at
the company.

1\. [https://blog.robinhood.com/news/2020/3/3/an-update-from-
robi...](https://blog.robinhood.com/news/2020/3/3/an-update-from-robinhoods-
founders)

~~~
dmix
That was a pretty weak explanation, only a single sentence referencing the
actual technical issue with some stuff about it causing some knock-on outages
elsewhere:

> We now understand the cause of the outage was stress on our
> infrastructure—which struggled with unprecedented load. That in turn led to
> a “thundering herd” effect—triggering a failure of our DNS system.

I was planning to wait for the post-mortem because I dislike speculating and
I'm not personally invested here, so I prefer to wait. I'm curious when
they'll release the full one because it's going to be one of the most
interesting ones in a while, given the large scale of the failure and
potential implications... (ignoring today's outage)

------
msluyter
I'd be curious to know the root cause(s) of their outages. I presume they're
using Kafka as an event bus, based on their Faust library[1]:

    
    
      Faust is a stream processing library, porting the ideas 
      from Kafka Streams to Python.
    
      It is used at Robinhood to build high performance distributed systems and 
      real-time data pipelines that process billions of events every day.
    

I did some evaluation of various Kafka ingestion methods a while back
(including Faust), and didn't find Python to be a great fit, so I'd be curious
to know if that has anything to do with it.

[1]
[https://faust.readthedocs.io/en/latest/](https://faust.readthedocs.io/en/latest/)

~~~
devmunchies
I had looked at their job board to see their technologies and saw heavy use of
python. I know large systems can be built in python, but for financial
services something more performant and safe probably would have been better.
But who knows, maybe Robinhood would never have had the adoption its had thus
far if it chose something else.

------
ThisIsTheWay
This is the 3rd system outage in the last week.

[https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/03/robinhood-outage-
cause/](https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/03/robinhood-outage-cause/)

------
jedimastert
Man, I picked a _hell_ of a time to dip my toe into the investment game. I
picked up a couple of reasonably wide Vanguard ETFs that seemed to be doing
fine at the end of last year. I'm currently down 12%, and down 15% in the last
month.

I suppose that's what I get. I realize that I should be looking at yearly data
and I've only had them for a couple of months, but it's a little hard to look
at.

Not to mention with all of the other RobinHood issues I want to move to
another platform I'm already on (I've got an account with Schwab for work
stuff and they seem fine), but general wisdom says to hold and let this
craziness ride out.

~~~
glouwbug
True, bad timing, but it doesn't matter, these are growth ETFs. You're gonna
hold it for 30 years.

I say a 10% dip should be motivation for you to buy more of this ETF

~~~
strbean
+1

Word of warning though: Buying and holding for a few decades is excellent
advice, but be sure to log in every once in awhile lest you get escheated[1]
out of your nest egg!

[1] [https://www.npr.org/2020/02/13/805760508/when-your-
abandoned...](https://www.npr.org/2020/02/13/805760508/when-your-abandoned-
estate-is-possessed-by-a-state-thats-escheat)

~~~
outworlder
Thanks for this. My jaw has dropped at such a ridiculous notion. This is
straight up stealing. Kind of a low key asset forfeiture.

~~~
strbean
The bitterly hilarious part is that they only stole $8,000 (and were happy to
return it). The gains since 2008 though...

------
cdiamand
I just wrote a post about /r/Wallstreetbets reaction to this. I graphed out
comments for several different brokers over time, and also mapped how many
users were holding SPY puts and got trapped.

[https://topstonks.com/blog?post_id=robinhood_down_for_the_co...](https://topstonks.com/blog?post_id=robinhood_down_for_the_count)

Needless to say, people are definitely considering moving to other brokers.

------
freeAgent
At this point, I think Robinhood has to be a dead brokerage walking. I cannot
fathom any new potential customers looking at brokerage options today and
deciding that Robinhood best suits their needs. Their largest competitive
advantage was the free trades, and one can find that at most of their
competitors now. Existing customers are also leaving (and possibly suing). The
future looks pretty grim for Robinhood.

~~~
outworlder
I thought that the other benefit would be easy account setup for options
trading? The brokers I'm aware of 'interview' you before giving you the
ability to trade options.

~~~
freeAgent
I am able to trade options on Merrill Edge after filling out a form. I think
perhaps Robinhood allows people to trade smaller contracts than usual? I can
only trade options in batches of 100, which means putting a fair bit of money
on the line for any given trade.

------
elietoubi
Feel bad for the engineers working there. Gotta be the most stressful work
week of their lives.

------
carlsborg
Being responsible for trading system uptime grows hair on your chest.

~~~
fizwhiz
That's a pretty gendered statement.

~~~
gotoeleven
We've already learned in the last couple years that there are no physical
characteristics whatsoever that are associated with gender. And no mental
characteristics either.

~~~
glouwbug
Would a "sexist statement" been a better use of terms?

------
3fe9a03ccd14ca5
Robinhood has served its purpose for me. They brought extreme pressure for
brokers to offer zero-cost trades.

Now I can do free trades via my Merrill Lynch account and that works for me.
There are many other options.

~~~
spoopyskelly
ok boomer

------
minimaxir
If a rise in the DOW was enough to shut it down due to load, a _massive fall_
can't be much better.

See replies to Robinhood's tweet:
[https://twitter.com/AskRobinhood/status/1237016846282280961](https://twitter.com/AskRobinhood/status/1237016846282280961)

------
partiallypro
Does anyone have a good path forward of how Robinhood can even survive after
this? Other brokers are not going down, and also offer free trades. I don't
even see the point of it anymore, especially if it is going down in some of
the most important market moments.

~~~
Traster
I have a crazy strategy, but hear me out: They do nothing.

The vast majority of Robinhood's customers aren't day trading clamoring to get
their daily dose of tendies. The proportion of RH's customers who are actually
effected is probably quite minimal, and of those _some_ might change to
another broker, but most will probably just put up with it. The market isn't
going to be this active for long, and so once it calms down RH will put in
place some fixes for its systems. This will be forgotten after a couple of
weeks, it'll perform better next time and it'll have almost no impact on RH's
value.

------
thedance
FWIW, Charles Schwab is also down, and is often down during heavy trading.
There's a big reliability gap between straight consumer brokers, and the next
tier up with interactive brokers et al.

~~~
snicky
For what it's worth, IB is down for me too. I can log in, but the stock lookup
doesn't work at all.

~~~
sitzkrieg
yes, this. many other systems go down in explosive volatility, including IB,
tda thinkorswim, etc and they all have their ass covered with electronic
trading risk agreements but you dont hear anything about that on wsb because
theyre all casual RH chunkers

------
mbesto
And this is what happens when you live wildly on the brink of tech fantasy and
tech brilliance.

I believe this will be Robinhood's undoing and the company will likely just
firesell itself (less than $1B) to Schwab/TD so they can acquire the younger
demographic.

------
anon102010
This many incidents makes FINRA a joke. Time for some outside regulators to
step in and require certain levels of availability with real consequences if
not maintained.

See my earlier posts about staying away from RH.

------
f-robinhood
RH is another one of these trendy "we only hire the best" startups that
discriminates against neuro-atypicals with poor social skills who are not good
"culture fits"\--you know, the kind of people actually detail-oriented enough
to make sure leap days are handled correctly.

I couldn't be happier to see them crash and burn.

------
Insanity
I _kind_ of expected this after last time. I wouldn't want to be working there
right now :o

~~~
capableweb
Why not? I think now would be the most interesting time to be working there,
where you can learn the most in the smallest amount of time. You'd gain much
more knowledge powering through the hard times rather than just coasting
around for the easy ones.

~~~
untog
Yeah but what you’re learning is “how to not catastrophically fail your
customers”. In a better company that’s a lesson you already learned. There is
going to be a LOT of stress and tension, it's hardly a great learning
environment.

~~~
dylan604
>In a better company that’s a lesson the _company_ already learned.

FTFY. Just because you work at a company doesn't mean you were around to
experience what ever event provided some sort of "learning" experience. If you
don't experience it personally, what ever systems the company has in place to
protect itself from said events just look like bloat/legacy cruft ripe for a
young upstart to disrupt away.

------
dubcanada
You figure they would have just turned the servers up to eleven.

At least in such a volatile time period.

~~~
eropple
It's pretty easy to find yourself creating bottlenecked points of failure in
systems that expect consistency. There may not be the knobs necessary to scale
up past a certain point.

A sufficiently bad positive feedback loop can also drive you into the ditch no
matter how monstrous your hardware is.

------
LatteLazy
It requires very good engineering, from software to hardware, from Webml to
pricing to OMS to connectivity to trade large order volumes during a storm.

Robin Hood took market share by being cheaper than other brokers. Cheaper
rarely means better (more robust, reliable, etc). That's the price you pay for
not paying higher fees.

Full disclosure: I shop around for low fees. But that's because I buy and hold
boring index funds. It makes no difference to me whether I can trade into or
out of a position today or even this week. If you need to change positions
quickly or die, for God's sake, don't pick the cheapest supplier.

------
dmode
Did they move fast and growth hack ? There is an absolute culture in the
valley now of showing quarterly results and ship something and inevitable
trade-off is eng excellence. This culture needs to change dramatically

------
jaredwiener
On an already volatile day:
[https://twitter.com/NYSE/status/1237009268181798913](https://twitter.com/NYSE/status/1237009268181798913)

~~~
dx034
Likely because of the volatility and the demand it caused.

------
papito
Wonder if it's the Python stream processing system that's bottlenecking:

[https://github.com/robinhood/faust](https://github.com/robinhood/faust)

~~~
humbleMouse
Almost like you shouldnt write a trading platform using python!!! Maybe try an
actually fast language like java?

------
minxomat
Also, Trade Republic (Germany's Robin Hood) was partially down today because
of a partial outage at HSBC. Seems like a rough day for trading.

------
JohnJamesRambo
Why do people keep using it?

~~~
levesque
I assume transferring all your stocks from one platform to another takes time.

~~~
otachack
It's about 5-10 business days by what I'm going through right now.

------
vbtemp
I ask this literally every time...

Explain-Like-I'm-Five: Why would you use Robin Hood instead of a normal
brokerage like Vanguard, T. Rowe Price, Fidelity, Charles Schwab, etc that..
(1) _already_ have commission free trades, (2) an app to make those trades,
and (3) don't charge any fee for transferring your holdings in-kind to another
institution.

~~~
a13n
\- When I created my Robinhood account, none of those brokerages had
commission free trades. Also, what about commissions and exercise fees
associated with stock options? Also free? I doubt it.

\- Still today, the UX of all of those other apps/websites (that I've used) is
horribly dated, clunky, and slow. Robinhood is amazing to use.

\- Robinhood has a Cash Management account that pays me 1.35% interest on all
my non-invested cash. None of these other services come close to competing
with this.

\- Robinhood started a progressive movement with the mission of making stock
trading more accessible to the lower/middle class. I love this company and
brand. Schwab is just another faceless corporation who only offers free
commissions because they had to to stay relevant.

------
iou
So not a "thundering herd" this time, eh?

[https://blog.robinhood.com/news/2020/3/3/an-update-from-
robi...](https://blog.robinhood.com/news/2020/3/3/an-update-from-robinhoods-
founders)

------
MR4D
“Robinhood - like AOL but for money”

Ugh. This is a tough issue to design for, and is expensive to run as well.

------
nscalf
Oh, is it 10:45 am on a Monday already? After the first two days, I downloaded
another broker and determined to transfer, but it's kind of a pain. Guess I
have to actually do it now.

------
mhb
What's the appeal of Robinhood over, say, Fidelity? Is it for people who are
making so many trades that the $7 or whatever commission is a big deal?

~~~
decebalus1
Not cool enough. In all seriousness, from the features/UI/etc.. Robihood seems
to be aimed more at speculative trades as opposed to 'playing the long game'.

------
humbleMouse
What an absolute trashpile of a company. The devops people, cto, and
archetects should be ashamed of themselves.

------
zelias
Not to don the tinfoil hat, but the simplest answer is that Robinhood can't
afford to cover the consequences of a fire sale, so they take the app down and
blame technical difficulties.

I have no faith that this company is operating in good faith.

~~~
IAmEveryone
In what universe is such a theory of vast conspiracy simpler than their
servers being overloaded on a busy day?

When people sell stocks on RH (or anywhere else) it’s not the broker paying
the sales rate. So you’re alleging something like RH having fraudulently sold
customers’ stock before?

And the market was moving the other way when RH also shut down last week. This
would be the only broker in history that had its system set up in a way where
they suffer with any trade.

------
Der_Einzige
Just switched to TDAmeritrade as a result of this crap.

------
yuy910616
Is it related to the forced shutdown?

~~~
SirLJ
It is not, was just confirmed on CNBC that Robinhood is experiencing system
wide issues long after the market reopened... Frankly, if I am an user of this
platform, I'll get my money out first thing after the fix the access... If the
can't keep the system running straight for so many days, who knows what other
bugs they have over there...

------
Spooky23
Incredible that anyone is still using Robinhood! It's pretty obvious that it's
a broker not long for this world.

------
jtdev
Again... WTF

------
psvidler
Hilarious.

------
njn
Good. Fuck that startup.

------
altoidaltoid
chuckles in CICS

------
rolltiide
Look, we’ve been shitting on Robinhood for almost a decade

They don’t even come here to defend themselves and people still act surprised

------
RIMR
lol, how convenient.

------
sergiotapia
wallstreetbets called it

------
codingslave
All those leetcode engineers RobinHood hired came back to bite them. This isnt
web development

------
chance_state
If their brokerage license isn't pulled after this, what does it take? C-Suite
_literally_ setting customers' money on fire?

~~~
anon102010
Isn't FINRA "self" regulatory in nature.

------
jariel
Robinhood is one of the reasons there's a crash in the first place. People
trading stocks on the bus etc.. Heyzeus. None of these people are adding
information to the market, they're just piling in with money and randomness.

This is the same frothiness I remember from the .com when ETrade etc. just
became big and all these zillions of people who thought they were investing
plowed their money in.

~~~
greenshackle2
All markets worldwide are crashing and the cause is.. US discount brokers?
Not, like, the ongoing pandemic?

~~~
jariel
The pandemic is bursting the bubble, it's not the underlying cause of the
problem. The conditions have been building for several years.

In 2001, the bubble was burst finally by big shift in interest rates from the
Fed, and some insane valuations which cause the smart money to run, causing a
stampede.

Most analysts have been raising red flags for a long time now. The market has
been operating on hype and irrational good vibes for at least a few years.

Warren Buffet started hoarding cash some time ago - long before the
Coronavirus.

Listen to Robert Shiller's interview earlier this year on the FT concerning
'narratives'. I don't think it's a new concept, rather just a modern
articulation of it. The mania we're seeing is just a more extreme form of
narrative.

~~~
greenshackle2
I've been looking at the Shiller PE Ratio [1] with raised eyebrows as much as
the next guy, I'm just not seeing how discount brokerages specifically are at
fault.

So far the S&P 500 has lost just one year of gains. I havn't done deep
analysis but to me that still seems consistent with expectations that the
economy will slow down for months due to sickness and lockdowns all over the
world caused by the pandemic (+ this weekend's oil price thing).

The PE ratio of the S&P 500 is still 20, so there is still some way down to go
before I would call this the bubble busting .I don't have to hubris to predict
how much more the market will fall tomorrow or in 3 months.

[1] [https://www.multpl.com/shiller-pe](https://www.multpl.com/shiller-pe)

