
Common Programmer Health Problems - GVRV
http://sheddingbikes.com/posts/1281257293.html
======
SandB0x
Another related problem is hygiene. I've met too many programmers that smell.
Some people don't wash, don't wear deodorant or just don't realise that their
_clothes_ need washing even if they look clean.

It's especially annoying because it's so easy to fix!

~~~
yason
In the summer, it's not easy to fix. It's been quite hot here this summer,
around 25-30℃ through June—August. Hot weather = sweating.

Taking a shower doesn't give you an edge over it for more than an hour: as
soon as you've walked for a while or sitting in public transportation for more
than five minutes, you're as soaked as before. And then you're smelling again.

~~~
wwortiz
You must live in a rather humid climate because that isn't too hot, it is more
of a comfortable temperature.

~~~
eru
It's just what you are used to.

------
gfodor
Quit coffee. I ended up in the hospital after being in the heat and being
hypercaffinated, so I decided to quit.

After the first few weeks of withdrawl, I've found that it is a net gain
overall. No more feeling like crap until the first cup of the day. Better
sleep. Clearer, less scattered thinking. I recently went on a trip with a
friend who is still a heavy coffee drinker, and it was striking to see him
suffer through the first several hours of the day before his second or third
cup. Being able to wake up and feel great is well worth it.

The thing you lose is the muli-hour high speed coding marathon. But lets be
honest, how often is it that the result of these marathons isn't something you
end up needing to rewrite anyway because you jumped in too quickly or failed
to think it through?

You could, of course, drink it "when you need it", but I've found that this is
the slippery slope back into addiction. So, I just stay away.

Edit: I've also found that a tall decaf from Starbucks can serve as a mental
substitute for those days when I _really_ crave it. I even get a slight
placebo energy boost. "It's so good when it hits the lips" :)

~~~
Ixiaus
I was never even close to being addicted to coffee and I refuse to drink even
one drink due to its effects on my body. Stimulants not only fry you a bit,
they also fatigue your adrenal glands which is the major cause for midday
fatigue, random allergies, and poor sleep at night.

I highly recommend anyone that drinks anything more than green tea to quit -
it seriously f's up your adrenals...

~~~
savemylife
Do you have any references to back this up? I'm curious specifically about
your claim that caffeine negatively affects adrenal glands.

~~~
Ixiaus
I don't have any specific scientific papers to cite (although I have seen
them), I do have personal anecdotal experience and this article that I read a
while ago about it:
<http://www.integrativepsychiatry.net/adrenal_fatigue.html>

My personal experience was this: extreme fatigue during the day (it was
difficult for me to stay awake and not nap when doing anything sedentary),
daily allergies that fired up (very badly) for no allergic reason, and a
general sense of sluggishness.

Once I cut out stimulants (it isn't just caffeine, but the amphetamines in
decongestants, ADHD medications, etc...) and started taking pills with
desiccated adrenal gland tissue and thyroid boosters I could stay sharp _all
day long_ without ANY caffeine or naps. I slept really well every night, and a
general sense of well being came back.

This coupled with my improved diet in general (paleo diet, no grains _at all_
, high in animal protein and vegetables) made my life so much better. My body
feels good, finally.

------
stretchwithme
This article mentions several problems caused by stiff muscles and strategies
for coping and preventing them. It may be useful to understand the mechanisms
that cause and perpetuate this problem.

There's the muscle sheaths that have stiffened by the lack of use of the full
range of motion and the constant deposition of collagen, which literally glues
the sheath to itself. This tight sheath can impair blood flow to a muscle,
especially when the muscle is contracted for a long time. The contracting
muscle presses out against a tight sheath. Blood takes the path of least
resistance.

That lack of healthy blood flow can cause the sarcomeres, the contractile unit
of muscle, to get stuck in their contracted position. This is how a muscle
gets tight and actually shorter.

When a muscle gets very stiff, a trigger point can develop. A trigger point is
just an area where many sarcomeres are tight. We certainly notice trigger
points, but the muscle gradually hardens for a while before a trigger point
develops.

The hard muscles are shorter and thicker and this makes manipulating the
sheath to break up the collagen much harder. But if the muscle is softened
first, it can be done.

Massage is how you soften the muscle and get the sarcomeres in it functioning
again. Massage pushes depleted blood out and then new blood is pulled in from
the capillaries.

But there's still one other factor and that is the way muscles communicate
with each other to accomplish work. When one muscle is engaged, other muscles
receive nerve signals to help. And if there is a trigger point in one muscle,
other muscles are engaged via the nerves.

So you may have a tense muscles but it may be another muscle that is the root
cause. All of the muscles need to considered and massaged in a systematic way.

~~~
AgentConundrum
_All of the muscles need to considered and massaged in a systematic way._

I wish I had realized this years ago. I developed RSI symptoms, or at least
they became severe enough that I took note of them, about two months ago. I
did a lot of research after that and ended up booking my first ever massage.

When the therapist started working on my forearms, she explained that I was
_very_ tight, and she wasn't surprised it was causing me pain. Oddly, my left
arm ended up being the worse off of the two. After the massage, I felt great
and could type relatively normally again without pain.

She also told me that my neck muscles were essentially made of stone, and
asked me if I regularly got headaches (I did).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't underestimate the value
of regular massages. It would probably cost around $1k/year to go once a
month, but I think it's worth it to keep yourself at the top of your game.
Therapeutic massage is often used to manage chronic pain, so I see no reason
why it couldn't also be used to prevent it (or cure it if you're in the early
stages).

~~~
stretchwithme
Massage addresses one piece of the puzzle and to me is primarily a coping
mechanism. It does not necessarily addresses the underlying problem.

It depends on the therapist; some are really good and some approaches work
much better than others. But this problem is clearly not addressed properly
for most people. Many suffer for years with it and a quick trip to a nursing
home will confirm that.

~~~
AgentConundrum
I didn't mean to imply that massage, and _only_ massage, would rid you of pain
permanently.

You need to take good care of yourself in general in order to stay healthy -
eat right, sleep well, keep yourself hydrated, and sit/work comfortably.

It just seems to me that a lot of programmers already take care of some of
these items - the fact that I've even _heard of_ Herman Miller chairs is
evidence that at least some programmers take these things seriously - but RSI
is still a huge concern in the industry.

I think if you're already sitting right and taking care of yourself, you could
still be slowly damaging yourself because you're still locked in a static
position for large portions of the day. Your muscles get used to working
together as a single muscle, and they start locking together and essentially
becoming that single muscle. Massage helps relieve muscles in spasm, and
deeper massages will help break the "supermuscles" apart so they act
individually again.

RSI is an issue every programmer (or any other person sitting at a computer
all day) needs to be aware of, and the more preventions and cures we can throw
at it, the longer we'll be able to stay healthy and productive.

~~~
stretchwithme
sorry, didn't mean to say you implied. just reiterating something.

Sitting all day is just an aggravating cause, not the underlying cause. A
muscle gets stiff under a light load only when circulation is impaired. A
muscle with good circulation will not get stiff.

So it isn't that we sit for long periods. Its that we haven't fully exercised
our full range of motion on a regular basis. We haven't kept the normal
deposition of collagen from essentially gluing our muscle sheaths into
something stiff enough to impair blood flow to the muscles inside them.

That's my theory anyway. And part of my understanding is that this situation
is totally reversible.

~~~
AgentConundrum
Reversibility is dependent on the type and extent of the damage. If the damage
is isolated to the muscle, then it probably is reversible to a certain extent.
First, the muscles in spasm (constant state of tension) need to be massaged
back to pliability, then you need to focus on stretching the muscles so they
can better manage repetitive stress, and once the muscle is relatively healthy
again you can begin strengthening it to withstand added tension and pressure
and to heal itself better. As programmers, we're constantly abusing our arm
muscles, and they will wear down over time. The trick is to minimize the
abuse, and maximize your ability to regenerate, and hopefully you can get to a
state where you heal more at night than you damage in the day.

Now, prolonged stress and inflammation (and certain physical abnormalities)
can cause damage to the nerves themselves and nerves suck at healing. If you
start having problems with sensation (feeling cold or numb), that's the result
of nerves under attack. Prolonged attack equals irreversible damage.

As far as your notation about collagen gluing muscles, that sounds about right
to me, and is sort of part of what I was saying earlier. Also, collagen is
largely made up of water, and this is why it is so critical to keep yourself
hydrated.

Also, muscles locked in static positions (I assume as a result of spasm) can
begin to act as a single unit rather than individual muscles. When this
happens, your body can actually try to sort of "heal them together" and the
muscles can literally begin to bind to each other. Massage, particularly deep
tissue massage, can help to break these bands apart so your muscles become
independent again.

That's my understanding, anyway. I'm definitely no expert in this, and my
knowledge largely comes from online research, and the book "It's Not Carpal
Tunnel."

------
wyclif
I'm a bit surprised Zed didn't mention getting a standing desk, or better yet
building one (it's simple and cheap to do so).

I think standing desks are an obvious remedy for back pain and discomfort.
Your "core muscles" are used more than if you were sitting down, and it
reduces the pressure on your spine caused by sitting upright in a typical
office chair.

A good, low-tech way to do this is to buy an unfinished door and paint or
finish it yourself. If it has a doorknob cutout, just use it for cable
management. Then get a pair of adjustable Stanley FatMax workhorses and you're
in business:

[http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-11031-Telescopic-Plastic-
Sawho...](http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-11031-Telescopic-Plastic-
Sawhorse/dp/B000MIVTJG)

~~~
StavrosK
I just sit in a 120 degree angle and have never had problems with my back,
wrists, neck or anything. Just make sure the screen is high up that you don't
have to bend your neck...

~~~
zedshaw
Unless you have specific support for that, as in a special chair/desk setup,
that's horrible advice. I'd almost like to see what you're doing since I can't
imagine it being comfortable. You got a picture maybe?

~~~
AgentConundrum
Didn't the BBC recently report about a study which concluded that obtuse
sitting angles were actually better for your back than right angles? (As
always, acute angles suck) If that's true, then his 120 degree sitting
position might not be horrible after all.

That said, if he's in essentially a lying position all day, there could be
other issues (like loss of muscle definition) at play.

~~~
jeebusroxors
I read that as well (can't recall where).

Here is one reference I did find:
<http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/DEA3250notes/sitting.html>

------
nileshk
This will probably be controversial, but I believe that RSI (and typing-
related carpel tunnel) is psychosomatic. I experienced what I thought was
chronic RSI that I wasn't able to solve through any other means but reading
Dr. John E Sarno's "The Mindbody Prescription" which I highly recommend
reading.

For 1.5 years I was not able to type without pain. I was able to rid myself of
this pain in weeks through a psychological approach. It's been over 7 years
since then and I haven't had problems.

I also play guitar, bass guitar, and drums. It can be painful sometimes to
play a lot if I haven't been practicing, but that pain goes away immediately,
and I don't believe it contributes to a permanent or long-standing problem.

Ergonomics is good for being comfortable and pain-free. And exercise is good
for general health. But I don't think not doing so is going to give you
chronic pain.

Of course you should see a doctor to rule out diseases like multiple
sclerosis.

Here is a document that explains Sarno's ideas:
<http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/handout.doc> Google cache of it for HTML:
[http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&v...](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CBoQITAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebcache.googleusercontent.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dcache%3A6ZpktcdKS0kJ%3Awww.rsi.deas.harvard.edu%2Fhandout.doc%2Bhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.rsi.deas.harvard.edu%2Fhandout.doc%26cd%3D1%26hl%3Den%26ct%3Dclnk%26gl%3Dus&rct=j&q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rsi.deas.harvard.edu%2Fhandout.doc&ei=eM9eTLyWCML58Abz7byzDQ&usg=AFQjCNFDePk4TJUp7Sv8KeGlXMzQIEYArw&sig2=WpLK0EBD_odWgNcFL4_Etg&cad=rja)

Keep in mind that this does not mean "it is all in your head"... The problem
does cause a physical condition in your body, but the cause of it is
psychological.

~~~
zedshaw
I agree, it is psychosomatic, although that's usually a term used by bad
doctors to wave away real problems with people. I think a better way to
explain it is that your body is controlled by your brain, and if you control
it wrong you can cause damage. Same way if you punch or kick something wrong
you can break your hand, if you spend 8+ hours a day typing with tension, poor
technique, bad posture, and ignoring pain signals then you'll hurt your hands.

So yes, learning to control you body and how you use it is generally a good
idea. In general I think that's all Sarno's method does. It just makes you
focus on how the motions should be done in a more relaxed manner, rather than
tense and harmful.

Combine that with the wrist exercises and you'll be even better off.

------
MicahNance
Seriously? 65 comments and the top voted is about (off-topic) hygiene? With a
community such as this, I expected a lot more advice and personal stories. To
be fair, I guess this did get posted early on a Sunday.

Many thanks to Zed for bringing it up the topic. I think it is always good for
the programming community to hear different views on it. As we rely more and
more on computers, mobile devices, etc., we're going to see these sorts of
injuries more and more and I'm not sure the medical community knows how to
deal with them yet.

I read HN sometimes and there are so many people doing full time jobs, then
coding at home, then playing guitar on top of that! It is depressing to read
because I'm lucky if I can make it through lunch without my arms hurting some
days. I don't think people in my camp speak up enough (partly because we are
trying to type as little as possible). I haven't played my guitar in years
while I try to cope. I've been to some physical therapy, but found that it
didn't improve things much short or long term. If you do visit a doctor (which
you probably should), just be aware that they may suggest surgery. Personally,
I don't think that is the answer to RSI in most cases.

I weight lift occasionally but I can't tell whether it is helping or hurting.
I've always been curious about yoga, I just need a kick in the pants to get
started. So, there's my personal story.

As far as advice, I don't have much since I haven't actually found something
that works well for me. I read "It's NOT Carpal Tunnel Syndrome" which was an
short, interesting read, but ultimately didn't help me with my particular
problem. It does have good general advice, a section with stretching exercises
and nerve glides, etc.

~~~
zedshaw
Hey, just from what you're saying it sounds like your wrists have gone a
little too far. If you have constant pain in your hands from typing, and you
can't play guitar, and this fact is consuming your life, then you should do
something about it. I don't know if that's surgery, but you should at least
talk to a specialist about your pain (not a general practitioner), and see
what they say. Also try to take a week or more off and not touch a keyboard or
guitar. If that helps then it may just be you need to change how you do things
with your hands.

~~~
MicahNance
It isn't my wrists; it is my forearms. From my reading and (ortho) doc visits,
Radial Tunnel Syndrome is the closest diagnosis to what I experience. It could
just be tendinitis, though. I agree I need a week off, but from my past
experience I know a week isn't enough. I'm going to try and take several weeks
off later this year.

Maybe my writeup sounded worse than it is. It isn't totally consuming my life,
but it has been worsening again lately so the topic has been on my mind. I am
not always in pain. I go through periods (days-weeks) of relative normalcy,
but other periods where the pain is worse. I haven't played guitar because I
try not to stress my arms while I'm home. I try to stay off the computer at
home too, but you see how that is working out... I need some mental
fortitude/willpower, too.

What do you mean by "change how you do things with your hands"? I've tried a
few different chairs, chair/desk heights, keyboards, and mice. My latest is
putting my MS Natural 4000 in my lap to type. I think that is an alright
position for my hands, but I wish its keys had a little less resistance than
they do.

~~~
zedshaw
Try this real quick:

1\. Get a friend and ask them to help you. Take your index and thumb and touch
them together tight as you can then have your friend try to slowly pry them
open. Try to remember how weak or strong your hands were. Try a couple fingers
to get an idea.

2\. There's two bones in your forearm that join at your wrist. Take your other
hand, and squeeze these two bones together at points along your forearm down
to your wrist. Squeeze really hard for about 10-20 seconds then relax and
shake your hand after each squeeze.

3\. Now relax for a bit and do your other arm equally, then do those wrist
exercises I gave you. Rotate them, warm them up, and do the stretches very
carefully and slowly. Rotate your wrists after every one and shake them.

4\. After you're done, have your friend come back and try the strength test.
See if it improves. If it does, then do this every day, no matter what, before
you do anything with your hands.

That squeezing of those two bones helps relieve pressure in there and takes it
off of nerves in your wrist. Give it a try but as usual don't do it if it
hurts too much.

------
jacquesm
Mental health should be on that list.

~~~
Confusion
Funny, but not nice and not necessary.

Downvoters: you are aware that Zed lists problems _he_ has struggled with and
that his generalization of this list to 'common problems programmers face' is
perhaps not warranted for all problems mentioned? If it was a serious
suggestion, jacquesm would have included an explanation of why programmers
would commonly face mental health problems.

~~~
mechanical_fish
Everyone, and I do mean everyone, with a mental health issue understands the
first problem with mental health: People try to laugh it off, or hide it out
of fear that others will laugh it off. Since people literally end up dead at
an early age because of this attitude, your flippant comment seems likely to
be downvoted by folks who have encountered mental illness, and that is a lot
of people. Such is the risk of being flippant. Fortunately there's a -4 limit
and you'll live.

Do you really need an explanation of why programmers might be at risk of
mental health problems? To first order, Zed's list speaks for itself: being in
poor health tends to depress you, especially the part about bad sleep. The
depression and the health effects feed back on each other in a nasty way.

But I'd add that loneliness is a big factor. These days we have amazing tech
like IRC and Twitter and HN, and it's easy to imagine that we can have rich
social lives without ever seeing another person except through the medium of
text. Well, your brain, designed and conditioned as it is for the presence of
actual physical humans, may think differently. I spent eighteen months working
as a solo consultant in my office, meeting clients only via email and the
occasional phone call, and it eventually drove me bananas. My wife still
laughs about the day I took half an hour off to go to the barber and then
_raved_ about the awesome social experience.

Even if you work in an office the isolation can be frustrating, because as a
programmer you routinely work on problems that nobody else understands or
wants to understand - even your fellow programmers, who are trying to focus on
problems of their own. To interact with others you need to really break your
focus, but that causes you to slow down, so maybe you try not to do it, and
before you know it everyone else has gone home and it is dark and you're
wandering through an empty parking lot...

Remember, solitary confinement is one of the worst tortures you can inflict on
a human.

~~~
TimeForThis
> My wife still laughs about the day I took half an hour off to go to the
> barber and then raved about the awesome social experience.

I had the same experience working for a company where I was on my own and the
people weren't friendly. I ended up loving the staff in the nearby Cafe Nero
because they were friendly and asked me how I was and sometimes had a little
chat. When I finally left that job, I left them a massive tip... I actually
wanted to leave a gushing thank you card but at least I still retained some
sense of perspective to know that that would have probably weirded them out.

All day I was on messenger and forums and had music playing but having no
friendly contact with humans for hours has quite an effect.

~~~
mcantor
It wouldn't have weirded them out--it probably would have made their day. Why
not err on the side of maybe delighting someone? Worse case scenario, it
weirds them out and you never see them again anyway!

------
mattmaroon
This is decidedly unscientific and at least in the small part I read clearly
uniformed. Eyesight problems from LCDs have nothing to do with fonts. It's
staring at something that's bright and at a close range for hours at a time.
Even if you were just watching YouTube for 8 hours a day you'd suffer.

~~~
zedshaw
Yeah, a lot of eye health seems to be voodoo bullshit. But, you got any links
to references on this? It might help people who have the problem.

~~~
keeptrying
This is an New Scientist article on an epidemiological study on the causes of
myopia. The link is to a blog which copied the content. The original is behind
a paywall. The fact that this paper is behind a paywall makes me freaking mad
because it could literally save the eyesight of a huge number of people.

Original Article:
[http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20427331.100-generatio...](http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20427331.100-generation-
specs-stopping-the-shortsight-epidemic.html?page=1)

Actual Content: <http://www.sunilreddy.com/?p=1429>

An excerpt: On average the children in Sydney spent nearly 14 hours per week
outside, and only 3 per cent developed myopia. In contrast, the children in
Singapore spent just 3 hours outside, and 30 per cent developed myopia. Once
again, close work had a minimal influence; the Australian children actually
spent more time reading and in front of their computers than the Singaporeans

~~~
mattmaroon
From what I've read it's not proximity that matters. It's brightness at close
range.

<http://www.poynton.com/notes/brightness_and_contrast/> gives us a good setup
procedure.

------
grigory
Something that worked really well for me is having several hobbies outside of
work. It prevents me from just coding for 12 hours a day, and makes my life so
much more enjoyable.

A really big one for me is mountain biking. I always found it to be a great
escape from whatever I had going on - school, work, relationships - you can
really forget about all of that stuff on trails. Mountain biking at times
feels more like an addiction, to be honest. Indeed, I own a shirt that reads
"Mountain biking is as addictive as crack, but twice as expensive". I start
feeling bad about myself and getting a bit anxious if I don't go out on trails
for several days in a row. It sure feels great afterwards though - really push
yourself, have fun, get that dose of adrenalin and be physically exhausted in
the end. I always solve my toughest problems after "hardcore" biking sessions
:-)

Having talked to some hospital staff during my several biking-related
emergency room visits, I can tell you that some forms of it (downhill-type
stuff) are very hard on your joints, so don't over do it. If you're really
into downhill racing and freeride, mix in several good XC sessions for cross-
training. You'll be stronger and healthier.

P.S.: another thing that really helps is having an active S.O., someone who'll
drag you out of your work-mode and take you hiking several times a week, and
who will want social interactions outside of "reading HN".

~~~
sprout
I'm addicted to Swing Dancing.

------
wvl
When you sit all day with your hands on a keyboard, your shoulders are
constantly in internal rotation. Try this quick test:

Hold a couple pens loosely in your hands with the points facing out, and stand
naturally with your arms at your sides. Where are pens pointed? If they are
pointed forward, then you've got excellent posture. If they are pointed
diagonally inwards, you have slight internal rotation. If they are pointed
almost straight inwards, then that internal rotation is severe.

The point of this is that pushups, and everyone's favourite lift, the bench
press, promote more internal rotation. Most office people would be far better
served performing more pulling exercises than push. So deadlifts, rows, pull
downs, pull ups, etc.

------
tomwalker
As a medical doctor, i think its a good article

the hacker community is not thought about in the medical community overall

------
awolf
My eyes used to be my weakest link. Then I got a pair of Gunnar Optics
computer glasses. They soften the contrast of bright screens with their yellow
tint, cut glare, have a slight corrective factor, and reduce airflow around my
eyes keeping them more moist.

They work wonders.

------
Qz
While we're on the topic of computer use issues, thought I'd share something I
discovered for mouse use. I realize lots of us like to go solo keyboard, but
for when you have to use a mouse, try this:

Put the mouse (m] sideways pointed left at the bottom left side of your
keyboard:

    
    
      [Keyboard]
      (m]
    

Rest your elbow on the desk, so your arm is parallel to the keyboard.

I've been doing this for a few months now, and it's been a huge improvement.
It might take a while to get used to the mouse being perpendicular to the
pointer orientation on screen, but maybe not (didn't for me). The position is
somewhat adapted from the tai chi standing practice posture.

~~~
Encosia
I can confirm that this setup has legs, long-term. I've been using my mice
that way for over a decade now, after accidentally stumbling onto it.

A good cordless mouse makes this configuration much more convenient (I'm still
using an aging Logitech G7, for example).

Curious, do you write left handed? I do, and so does the only other person I
know of that uses this setup.

~~~
Qz
Actually no, I'm right-handed. I don't even remember how I ended up with the
setup... maybe my mouse just gradually moved leftwards across the desk in
search of better comfort!

------
leftnode
I cannot stress how important it is to stay healthy. I used to be a
competitive natural bodybuilder (which isn't the healthiest thing, overall)
and a personal trainer, so being healthy was always a part of my life. After I
graduated college, I didn't have enough time for them and let myself go. As a
result, I get sick more often, and have back pain.

I'm currently in the process of getting back into shape (not as a competitive
bodybuilder, but just general fitness). So please, if you can avoid becoming
unhealthy, do, and stay fit. There's literally no downside to it (that I can
think of).

~~~
jodrellblank
It's effortful, time consuming, boring, and involves changes of behaviour,
self image and thought processes, and involves potentially standing out
against peers, family, friends, colleagues and industry culture.

If there were _literally_ no down sides, everyone would do it by default.

------
joey_bananas
It's hard to take health advice from a guy who considers martial arts to be a
qualification in dispensing them. Especially when he trots out bullshit old
wifes tales like caffeine leading to dehydration.

~~~
jrockway
Indeed. Studies have shown that those that are used to caffeine don't get
dehydrated from drinking caffeinated beverages.

The NYT examine this here:
[http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/health/nutrition/04real.ht...](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/health/nutrition/04real.html)

~~~
pradocchia
Really, though, you shouldn't need Zed, the NYT or anyone else to tell you
whether coffee is dehydrating. You _should_ be able to tell, for yourself, one
way or the other.

For myself, it's headaches and feeling "parched" (for lack of a better term),
preceded by the usual coffee-smelling piss. I usually don't let it get that
far, but once my head starts to ache I quickly switch over to green tea and/or
water.

Whether the latest journal reports caffeine is or isn't dehydrating may be
_interesting_ , but should mean fuck-all to your daily routine. Don't look for
authorization in science. Look for it in careful examination of your own
experience.

------
silentbicycle
It sounds like a lot of these are symptoms of the _real_ problem: People are
so hell-bent on hyper-focusing for long hacking marathons that they ignore
warning signs and neglect their bodies.

Also: I did Aikido for a couple years, too, and know _exactly_ which wrist
stretches he means. They're great pre-typing stretches.

------
msluyter
I disagree with his advice on vitamin D, especially for those over 40 who have
lost most of their ability to synthesize it from sunlight. See:

[http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/getting-
vitamin-d-...](http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/getting-vitamin-d-
right.html)

------
rb2k_
Something that really upped my motivation for running is using my cellphone's
gps to log data. I coded a small web-app to show a little bit of stats
(<http://fitness.marc-seeger.de/category/joggen> /
<http://github.com/rb2k/run-a-log>) as my first little project with
ruby/sinatra. My inner nerd loves to collect data and do stuff with it and my
body is probably thankful for it (just finished my 800th recorded kilometer)

p.s. I currently use "cardio trainer" on android which would also offer a
webinterface to data. Before that I used MyTracks (android), Nokia
Sportstracker (Symbian), jogstats (webos)

------
craftsman
I've suffered from the low back problems he mentions, but mine was not
primarily caused by sitting for long periods of time. It was from playing
sports when I was younger--I really messed it up.

However, I recently got an ergonomic chair after minor back surgery and it is
awesome! It has made a big difference in how I sit and I am much more
comfortable with it.

I would also add: don't sit at your desk and eat your lunch and surf to HN. :)
Go outside for a 20-30 minute walk. Walk somewhere different every day and
look at things you haven't seen before. Not only do you get good exercise, you
will spur your creativity and curiosity.

------
jarin
I can definitely see how bleeding out of your rectum might interfere with your
programming flow.

~~~
barrkel
I believe a tight bubble (intestine + vein) of blood hanging out of your
rectum (i.e. an actual hemorrhoid) would actually be more distracting than the
bleeding, which would be a relief.

------
wallflower
If you don't read the rest of this, get a styrofoam foam noodle around 12" in
diameter and 3 feet in length. Lie on it to relax and stretch your back. Back
stores have them. They're expensive but I use mine twice a day.

For those of you who type like madmen with no regard for ergonomics and work
breaks, I did that since I was 9. I have systems in place to avoid that now.
Through grade school, high school, college. I was a blazing fast slouch typer.
After I graduated from grad school, I started getting pains. So I would rest
up and be as good as new overnight. There reaches a point where if you ignore
the problem long enough it becomes persistent. Finally, it became such that
even after a weekend of rest it would (pain, soreness) still remain. Maybe at
a level three out of ten. I went to see a physical therapist and he tested my
grip strength - my left hand was stronger. And I'm right handed. Leaving out
thousands of ergonomics purchases, the best thing you can do is to start a
swimming program. Swimming is zero-impact; you're not pounding the pavement.
It is excellent for working your full body. Swimming is hard if you don't know
how to swim because you're basically putting all your energy into fighting
water resistance. Elite swimmers are three times more efficient than average
swimmers (91% of energy fighting water vs 97% for average swimmers - meaning
they can put 9% towards forward propulsion). Total Immersion has an awesome
swim-like-a-fish program (<http://totalimmersion.net>). For eyestrain, rest
your eyes by looking at least twenty feet away every twenty minutes for at
least twenty seconds (the 20-20-20 rule). If you wear corrective lenses, ask
your optometrist for a computer Rx (that you can use while screen working).
WorkPace software from Wellnomics is awesome because it forces me to micro-
pause every 4 minutes for 20 seconds and stop working for 4 minutes every 14
minutes. Believe me, I am a very efficient programmer. Also, use the mouse
with your non-dominant hand.

For those of you who don't have health issues, realize that you will not take
endless, pain-free typing for granted once you have soreness that becomes
persistent. The only true rehabilitation would be to stop typing all together
for a long time (2 years). Until then, I'm appreciating my job for what it is
- something in the short term. Diversify your portfolio of skills - don't be
over-weighted in tech. Start creating things that you own.

~~~
AgentConundrum
_micro-pause every 4 minutes for 20 seconds and stop working for 4 minutes
every 14 minutes_

I doubt that's feasible for anyone working in an office, rather than for
themselves.

I ran the numbers a bit, and I assumed: a) that you work 4 minutes, break 20s,
then work for - i.e. the clock resets _after_ the break, b) the 14m breaks are
wall clock, not non-break time, and c) when you return from a 14m break, the
4m clock resets.

According to this, you're taking 19m of breaks per hour. I'd be fired if I
only worked 2/3 of every hour.

Edit: For anyone interested, I did this in Excel and it breaks down like this:

work 4m, break 20s, work 4m, break 20s, work 4m, break 20s, work 1m, break 4m,
work 4m, break 20s, work 4m, break 20s, work 2m, break 4m, work 4m, break 20s,
work 4m, break 20s, work 1m20s, break 4m, work 4m, break 20s, work 4m, break
20s, work 1m, break 4m

~~~
wallflower
It only counts active time (keyboard activity, mouse movement). For instance,
I naturally pause for some time while thinking. If you take a break, the
counter will reset automatically. Yes, it has driven my co-workers nuts when
they try working on some code but I tell them to relax.

As for being fired, I've proven that I can get more done than others in this
setup. It's not quantity of code, per se, but fixing three to four times more
bugs than other devs. That's my niche - I love fixing bugs. I don't understand
why other developers claim to not like fixing bugs. For me, quality balanced
with efficiency is utmost.

Getting laid off would be a nice clean break.

~~~
AgentConundrum
That makes sense, I suppose. I guess I was thinking about it more in terms of
my own habits - since I got "carpal tunnel" (or whatever it really was that
was killing my wrist last month), I've taken regular breaks where I stretch my
wrists. I wasn't thinking about your setup as being strictly about "keyboard
time."

Thanks for the clarification.

------
sigil
Laptop ergonomics deserves a special mention. Because it forces your line of
sight and wrist level to converge, there really is no ergonomic option --
either you hunch or you scrunch. Elevating the screen and either using an
external keyboard or external monitor really helps.

~~~
bphogan
Actually my Macbook Pro has improved my ergonomic situation. I use the built-
in zoom tool, (it's the reason I bought a mac, as I have low vision) and
because of the zoom feature, I can put the laptop wherever I find it
comfortable but still see things. The zoom keeps me from hunching over or
leaning in.

Also, I use my middle finger on the trackpad, as I need to use the middle AND
index fingers to "right click", and this slight turn of my wrist completely
removed the wrist pain I get from using a mouse or a normal trackpad.

~~~
sigil
But don't you end up angling your head downward to see the screen? Or angling
your forearms upward to reach the keyboard? All the ergonomics material I've
read suggests keeping these on the level, or possibly even angling your
forearms down a bit into your lap. Almost impossible to do with just a laptop.

~~~
jodrellblank
I've wondered about this ever since reading Peter Cochrane's comments on it.
When people want to concentrate on things, we hunch over them. Nobody reads a
book at arms length, head up. Nobody knits or threads a needls at arms length,
or does any kind of paperwork that way. Why do we compute that way?

------
stretchwithme
Here's an easy way to release some muscular stiffness if you're having lower
back pain while sitting.

Stand up and feel your lower back and whether you can massage it easily.

With your arms back at your sides, bend both legs just 1/4 of the way down. Do
this 3 to 5 times.

Now stretch the front of each thigh by holding the foot to your butt. Don't
use a lot of effort to do this. Just hold in place for 5 seconds or until it
completely stretches.

Now feel your lower back again and see if you can massage it. If its much
easier to massage now, the source of your pain is your tight thighs. But now
you have a way to cope with and reduce the consequences of this tightness.

------
alexyim
Another useful thing is <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myofascial_release>.

Go pick up the hardest foam roller you can handle and start rolling:

<http://www.amazon.com/Foam-Roller-6-x-36/dp/B000Y4W9VA/>

It has done wonders for my body.

------
dylanz
1\. RSI: Take a week off, then, switch to Dvorak (maybe get a Kinesis keyboard
if that helps you as well).

2\. Back: Standing desk w/ nice architects chair.

3\. Eyes: Get a Kindle and read PDF's/etc on it instead of computer.

My quick $0.02 on the problems I've helped resolve from your list Zed.

The other problems, I have yet to tackle, but, I probably should sooner than
later! Great detailed post.

------
mathgladiator
On Vitamin D, you need to be careful because it can also mess up your calcium
levels. If you calcium levels change, then it can affect your magnesium
levels. If your magnesium levels drop, then your muscles will hurt hard core.
If you ignore the pain (and deal with it like a real man), then you will die.

------
sushi
Most of the problems mentioned won't even happen in the first place if one
takes regular breaks.

I recommend WorkRave for this: <http://www.workrave.org/>

~~~
Tichy
Or follow my twitter bot: <http://twitter.com/officeworkout> (strictly non-
scientific)

------
carbocation
This is an interesting thing for Zed to share.

Sleeping on your back is something that can exacerbate sleep apnea, so I would
modify his otherwise quite pleasant sleep suggestions with that in mind.

~~~
philwelch
If you have sleep apnea, go get yourself a damn CPAP machine and wear it when
you sleep. Sleep apnea is almost, but not quite, as bad as never even
sleeping. That means dozing off during every quiet moment of the day, having
waking hallucinations, waking up just as tired as you felt when you went to
bed, even sleeping all weekend. Your concentration and mental abilities end up
just plain shot. I've known two people with sleep apnea and they both turned
their lives around considerably when they had it treated.

~~~
carbocation
There is essentially a continuous normal distribution of "apneic" sleep
features. There is no bright line between apnea and not apnea, though we
create lines for simplicity's sake. Of course if you need CPAP, use CPAP. But
there are plenty of people who have soft tissue that closes off the upper
airway to a significant degree only when supine. These are the people who
don't need to deal with the modest but non-zero risks associated with
respiratory assistance — all by just sleeping in a different position.

------
steve19
CS departments should make all students attend a short course covering all of
Zed's topics and the personal hygiene and mental health issues mentioned in
this thread.

~~~
shoover
Or better yet companies that expect people to sit at computers for 40-60-80
hours should. One good thing about meetings: sitting in them is easier on your
hands, if it doesn't drive you crazy...

------
ruang
Semi-fast once a week. Much easier than trying to calculate your calorie count
each and every meal.

I skip dinner and breakfast the next morning, so I'm without food for 24
hours.

------
seshagiric
Very well written and practical. Thanks for sharing this.

------
xom
What's a door jam?

~~~
PidGin128
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Door_jamb&oldi...](http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Door_jamb&oldid=376045823&printable=yes)

Depending on the context that inspired you to ask, the literal explanation may
not help.

------
earl
Zed, you forgot kidney stones. One of the consequences of too much caffeine is
it's easy to be dehydrated, which puts you at risk of kidney stones. Which
essentially means you get the dubious pleasure of pissing razor sharp calcium
rocks out your urethra. It hasn't happened to me, but it has happened to
friends; based on their experiences, I wouldn't recommend it.

~~~
c1sc0
Happened to my father & it was the most agonizing experience I have seen him
go through. Kidney stones cripple you with pain, you can't sit, you can't lie
down. It rips basic comfort out of your life for weeks on end.

------
jc-denton
EXERCISE REGULARLY.

Nobody forces you to drink coffee.

Really I don't think it's so hard to do programming w/o becoming a complete
nerd.

------
c00p3r
Run, Forrest! Run!

------
mhd
But trust me on the sunscreen…

------
illumen
Give up guitar. Write less. Think. Solve problems in ways that use least
typing.

~~~
zedshaw
Well that'd be no fun.

