
Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie - light3
http://www.mensjournal.com/everything-you-know-about-fitness-is-a-lie/print/
======
jasonkester
If you really want to get fit, there's one easy thing you can do that actually
works:

Take up a sport that gets you fit as a side effect.

I have two obsessions in life: Rock Climbing and Surfing. I'm pretty good at
the first, and borderline hopeless at the other, but I'm committed to the
point where I've arranged my life so that I can travel for months at a time to
pursue one or the other each year.

When I'm working a contract to save up for the next trip, I'll find myself
slowly fattening up on fish tacos and 12 hour days coding in a felt cube with
only the occasional after work or weekend fix of rock or salt water. After a
few months I'm decidedly soft, and quite a bit heavier. But put me on the
beach in Thailand for 5 months and holy crap, what a difference.

It's like Fat Camp out there. There's _so much_ fun climbing to be had right
on the beach. Overhanging routes that work you into the sort of shape that
lets you literally hand-over-hand your way out a horizontal roof by your
fingertips as your feet dangle out in space. Without anybody forcing you, you
spend your entire day working yourself silly, then you come back and eat
_rice_. You can imagine what that does for your physique. It's like a
convention of Men's Health cover models out there.

I come back to the world, and watch people going to the gym and clearly hating
every minute of it. I can't understand why they would do that to themselves,
when there's a climbing gym just a few miles away.

~~~
jerf
Every time there's an article on exercise or diet, there's a pileon of people
promoting their own beliefs, with no apparent sign that they read the original
link.

How do you address the fact that your point is actively contradicted by the
article? Did you even _know_ your point is actively contradicted by the
article? I'm not even saying that proves you're wrong; what bothers me is that
you just ran off to post your own stuff with no apparent engagement of the
topic. That's not a recipe for learning anything.

~~~
jasonkester
The author talks about his experience or getting fit by going to a gym and
lifting free weights. I countered with my approach, which revolves around
setting your life up so that fitness is merely a side effect.

I'm not contradicting anything that he says. I used to lift weights in much
the manner that he describes, and it'd be difficult to deny that it works.

The thing that he misses is motivation. Most people simply have none of it. I
certainly don't for weight lifting.

In my experience, climbing rocks and surfing, while possibly suboptimal as
workouts, will absolutely get you into great shape. And they have the added
benefit of providing their own motivation.

~~~
js2
_In my experience, climbing rocks and surfing, while possibly suboptimal as
workouts, will absolutely get you into great shape. And they have the added
benefit of providing their own motivation._

Eh, I don't find rock climbing at all enjoyable. But I love running marathons.
I've even been known to put in 22 miles _on a treadmill_. Different strokes
for different folks.

~~~
notyourwork
22 miles on a treadmill. Talk about boring, I do not understand how you can
manage this. Now running outside is another story entirely but stationary
bikes/treadmills/elipticals I cannot understand.

~~~
thesz
Runners get high like few people can:
[http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Anews.ycombinator.com%2...](http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Anews.ycombinator.com%20runners%20high)

All on their own supply. ;)

------
msy
Given he calls Crossfit sadistic it's ironic he's basically describing it.
Free weights, core strength, a focus on overall fitness and all aspects
thereof over abstract weight numbers. It's not complicated and plenty of
people know it.

Hyperbolic headlines are intensely irritating.

~~~
freshfey
Not exactly.

In Crossfit times and reps matter more than form. Just take a look at some
gyms. The exercises and the philosophy behind is awesome, but the practical
appliance is far from great.

~~~
jokull
There's an emphasis on improving scores and people get carried away for sure.
But in the two boxes I've trained at there's a culture for good form and
working on technique. "Honesty in motion, honesty in counting".

I believe it's a CrossFit thing.

~~~
jacques_chester
> I believe it's a CrossFit thing.

Based on this claim I assume also that Crossfit invented the barbell, the
bumper plate and gravity.

The sudden outburst of anecdotes about how _your_ Crossfit gym rooly trooly
emphasises form seems to have come after _years_ of sustained criticism by
strength coaches and Olympic weightlifting coaches.

It's as simple as this: nobody -- not me, not you, not your coach, not the
pros -- _nobody_ can pump out high rep Oly movements without steady and
ultimately _dangerous_ degradation in form. The force plate studies, the EEG
studies, the eyeballing of experienced coaches demonstrate over and over and
over that it is a flat out stupid idea to do snatches or cleans for reps.

And yet in Crossfit gyms everywhere, this idea of smashing out 20 clean &
jerks still keeps getting circulated.

You cannot do this and learn to do the movements precisely enough. You will
only train yourselves to do it messily. Under heavy weights you will fuck up
and injure yourself.

Given that I love Oly lifting, I don't want people getting injured and then
_blaming the lifts_ , when they should be blaming a _faulty training
technique_.

~~~
yummyfajitas
I haven't done crossfit, but I am curious - what prevents you from doing 20
proper form clean & jerks if you lower the weight?

~~~
enjo
It's the timing aspect, and it's particularly an issue with squats. Even at
lower weight, it's far to easy to get your knees pushed forward or your back
arched when trying to pump through them as fast as possible.

I don't think anyone is saying that it's not _possible_ , it's just much more
likely that your average lifter is going to run into injury.

------
mkramlich
I sometimes wish we could delete the entire fitness industry from the world
and replace it with a few lines of text, something like this: eat right,
exercise, get adequate sleep, reduce stress, get variety, use natural motions,
breathe deep, get yourself winded intentionally from time to time, when in
doubt walk, etc. The vast majority of people probably never need to go near a
fancy weight machine or even lift artificial weights of any kind. Just
carrying out normal actions in the Earth's gravitational field, putting your
body through all the natural ranges of motion it's capable of doing, is
actually pretty darn adequate, and can build muscle and improve figure and
physical capabilities. I believe most of the industry is not much more honest
than a shyster trying to sell snake oil.

~~~
someperson
Forgive my ignorance but how exactly does being winded help somebody become
fit.

By getting yourself winded do you mean being punched in the stomach hard
enough to lose your breath for a moment, or something else?

~~~
yogipatel
Something else — the feeling you get after some kind of strenuous activity
that raises your heart/breathing rate. Running, for example.

What you're referring to is getting the wind _knocked out_ of you.

~~~
dagw
For what it's worth I've never heard what you describe called "winded". To me
winded means getting the wind knocked out of you. I wonder if it is a regional
thing.

~~~
bpyne
In the northeast of the US, getting winded is breathing heavily from exertion.
It implies reaching your max exertion point.

I would think the rest of the US uses it the same way, just based on talking
with friends throughout the country. I'm not sure if our brethren to the north
use it the same way.

~~~
enjo
Same in the south and midwest... I've never heard the other interpretation at
all:)

------
gexla
I think a lot of the comments here are missing the point of this article.

Free weights are vital for muscle strength, mass and edurance. That doesn't
mean free weights take the place of your other activities such as skiing or
mountain climbing. That doesn't mean that you cut out cardio, that's something
else entirely, even though some people work on cardio in the gym along with
strength training.

Free weights are also great for building the entire structure of your body.
There is nothing which can stress the major muscles of the legs, bones and
supporting muscle groups like throwing a huge weight on your shoulders and
squatting that weight multiple times. Swimming, isometrics and all that other
stuff won't do it. Machines also don't do this because you don't have weight
to stabilize in both directions. The power move of the squat is to push
upwards with your legs but you still have to lower that huge weight in an
orderly down movement to start the exercise.

~~~
rue
Actually it kinda reads exactly like cutting out cardio for the most part,
though admittedly I only skimmed through it. Perhaps it isn't communicating
its point very well?

Personally I heavily favour cardiovascular fitness over muscular fitness, and
would choose the former in a heartbeat (ahaha) if I had to pick one. Currently
I cycle and do astanga, though I plan on adding some low-rep strength training
to the mix too.

~~~
gexla
The article doesn't really touch on cardio much. The general idea of the
article is that in the _gym_ all you really need is the basics of free
weights. That's the best you can get out of the gym for the other activities
in your life which may include all the cardio you need. There's lots of ways
to get cardio, but everyone would do well to follow the same basic free-weight
program like he lays out.

------
emeltzer
Prisoners are among the most fit people in the world, despite an absence of
good machines, good diet, coaches, and instructional material.

If you want to be fit, start exercising--a nice way to get started is to truly
understand that any kind of exercise is very much better than doing nothing.

~~~
ryanfitz
I have read on various weight lifting forums that at least some prisoners
smuggle in steroids, protein powders/bars and also steal extra food when they
can. This would certainly lead them to getting into great shape if all they do
is workout and get the needed supplements.

Also, I don't know about you, but I don't personally know anyone in jail, so
other than perception that guys in jail are huge, I'm not really sure its
true.

~~~
freshfey
Good read here:

Training Behind Bars Pt. 1: <http://goo.gl/epno3>

Training Behind Bars Pt. 2: <http://goo.gl/ppvHU>

Easily two of the best articles on T-Nation.

------
mmaunder
This is a one sided view of fitness. e.g. there is zero focus on cardio. Would
be interesting to see one of these guys do a light 5 mile run. Look into real
world training: running, hard hiking with a pack, mountain biking,
swimming/surfing. These types of exercise have been the most rewarding for me
in terms of skeletal, muscle and cardio fitness.

The only thing I agree with in the article is that cardio machines in the gym
are a waste of time.

~~~
jrockway
_The only thing I agree with in the article is that cardio machines in the gym
are a waste of time._

Not sure this is really true or that it matters. A 5 mile run on the treadmill
at an x minute pace is the same as a 5 mile run outside at an x minute pace.
Advantages of the treadmill include being able to keep a given pace without
making any particular mental effort. Advantages of being outside is that it's
not boring.

~~~
gaius
Hmm, well it's more subtle than that. Running on a "real" surface, that is
constantly changing gradient and direction, works a lot of ancillary muscles
for stability and balance that you don't get on a treadmill. The cardio
workout might be the same. But if you trained for a Marathon only on a
treadmill, you'd be in for a bit of a surprise when you tried a real one.
Without the core strength you'd lose your form, your running would be less
efficient, you'd get exhausted much more quickly.

~~~
nollidge
The other thing I've noticed is that when running on a treadmill, it may seem
like your legs are making roughly the same motion as real running, but you're
not pushing yourself _forward_ , just _upward_. Your legs definitely don't
have to work as hard pushing your body around.

~~~
krschultz
My girlfriend is currently training for a half marathon and was told to never
ever run on the treadmill with it set flat, so she goes with a fairly decent
incline (not running up hill, but definitely should get some resistance) the
entire time at a minimum.

------
momotomo
I get the logic and intent behind these kind of articles but at the same time
they infuriate me, because this is the kind of crap that people read and use
as yet-another-reason as to why they don't try to get fit.

Sure, machines aren't perfect, and they railroad your form, but it's better
than nothing. I train on machines, _and_ with free weight, _and_ doing
bodyweight / crossfit stuff. They all have their place.

There's no way I'd try to pull the rep max on a free barbell that I would on a
smith machine, but it says nothing about how effective one or the other is.

It's like the whole internet self defense huff. A billion words written on the
technicalities of all the different martial arts but most fights are won by
punching the other guy repeatedly hard enough to stop him hitting you. Sure
it's not perfect, but its taking action and it gets results.

~~~
DuncanIdaho
ummm, No!

From anecdotal experience - the training plan he describes is something I did
when I started out mountainbiking and ran straight into a probably best coach
in vicinity.

My training program was a lot like the one described in the article - It was
longer, but I was too lazy to do all of it - so I landed right where he
suggests 3-4 times lifting weights a week. And boy did I get strong. But then
I started fiddling out with trendy programs and fuxxored it all. :)

I guess that not using machines wont make such a difference, its more the
training regime (reps, measuring your maximum, doing the pyramid). It's just
that they are unnecessary.

So there are 3 things I have learned about fitness:

1\. Your basic training / off season training should be exactly as described
in this article.

2\. Most people work out waaay too much.

3\. If you are serious about your sport: do interval training twice a week
(max).

That's it - that's all are there is. Everything else you can do your sport or
whatever.

~~~
momotomo
My gripe is about "getting fit" as in coming from baseline / nothing to being
a reasonable human being. When I was pushing 310 pounds (as in ass weight, not
bench weight), this is the kind of thing I would read and go, hey, yeah! Super
clever mountain man training! That's the stuff, screw the gym, I'm all over
this, I'm so pro!

Not a unique attitude at all. What got me down to the 200 mark though was just
joining a gym, pushing out squats / deadlifts / presses (on machines for the
first few months), utilizing the trainers, getting some buddies on board,
eating less and getting the job done.

Average joe doesn't have room for gear at home, or the motivation to
independently structured programs, or they just flat out get intimidated by
hanging around training camps or gyms. I don't think there's room to
discourage anything that has potential benefit for people.

------
toadi
I have lifted weights for 15 years. But now I ditched the gym all together.
Got bored with neon lights, the smell of sweat and watching fat people run on
a treadmill ;)

Now I only sport outdoors and for muscle strength I use kettle-bells:
[http://www.amazon.com/Kettlebell-Strength-Secret-Soviet-
Supe...](http://www.amazon.com/Kettlebell-Strength-Secret-Soviet-
Supermen/dp/0938045695/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1299227111&sr=8-3)

Just read [http://www.amazon.com/Kettlebell-Strength-Secret-Soviet-
Supe...](http://www.amazon.com/Kettlebell-Strength-Secret-Soviet-
Supermen/dp/0938045695/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1299227111&sr=8-3) and you know
enough. No expensive equipment needed and it takes only 3 times 30 to 40
minutes a week to gain considerable strength and cardio!

------
jules
[citation needed]

Here's another anecdote: No lifting weights, only running & cycling and lately
swimming. Pretty much the opposite of what the article is arguing. Since I
started this I'm doing I'm doing fairly well, six pack included. I went to the
gym once, and saw bulked up guys getting 5 pull ups. So I tried that and could
easily do 30. Lifting weights may make you look like a bodybuilder, but are
you really fit?

~~~
mzl
You do realize that the bulked up guys probably weigh a lot more than you do
so the number of achieved pull-ups is not an interesting measure?

The really bulked-up ones most likely train for muscle mass, not for any
useful activity.

~~~
jules
Sure, they do weigh a lot more than I do. Isn't that part of the fair
comparison? You don't give a cyclist or runner a backpack with weights in it
because it's "unfair" that he weighs less than the other cyclist/runner. These
guys were probably training pull ups every week at least, so it's on their
home territory. Yet their training is less effective than running & cycling.
For the vast majority of activities, performance relative to body weight is
the interesting measure, not absolute weight lifted. I'm just saying that if
lifting weights is so much better than other forms of training, why weren't
they able to do pull ups much better?

My second point is that yes, this is an anecdote. So is the article. Don't
take either as a scientific inquiry.

~~~
tensor
And in a rock lifting competition they would win easily. I don't see your
point. You pick an arbitrary metric that you happen to be good at and declare
victory.

As it stands, all you've done is point out that there are different tasks and
depending on your target task the ideal body composition and training routine
differs.

If you want to be good at pullups you should probably let all your leg muscles
atrophy and just build lats and biceps.

~~~
jules
If you should do that then I am certainly doing it wrong by running and
cycling and letting my arm muscles atrophy. Sure, they'd win a rock lifting
competition. And if weight lifting is so good, then they _should_ win a pull-
up competition, since that's also what they're training for and it's _not_
what I'm training for by virtually only using my legs. My point being: take
this article with a huge grain of salt and train for real fitness not for how
much kg you can lift. The easiest way to improve that is to become very fat.

------
ez77
_Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie_

If you just learn this 'fact', then _some_ of the facts you know about fitness
will of necessity be true, consistency willing.

------
brown9-2
_Mainstream men’s fitness magazines have no larger mission than profitable
advertising sales, which means endless pitches for useless (if not outright
dangerous) dietary supplements and articles on “Seven Steps to Great Abs,”
always omitting the all-important Step Eight: In order to make your six-pack
even remotely visible to the naked eye, reduce your total body fat to an
inhuman 10 percent._

This describes just about every issue of "Mens Health" magazine, by the way.

------
indrekj
I started going to gym 3 years ago. My weight was 55kg (122lbs) and height was
182cm (~6ft). Very underweight. I knew nothing about training. So I paid for a
personal trainer. He made me program where almost all exercises were on the
machines. At least he put squat and bench press there too. I trained when I
had time, 2-4 times a week.

Last summer I did some arm wrestling with my friend. I lost. I thought what's
wrong. I weighed less than my friend, but he didn't do any weight training. So
I started looking how to get more strength.

I started doing core strength (Squat, bench press, dead lift, press, power
clean, pull-ups). No more machines, biceps curls, calf raises, wrist curls,
etc. Also, I started eating much more. With last 2 months I've gained 4kg
(8-9lbs). My squat is currently 102.5kg (226lbs), that is ~1.4x of my body
weight. I've gained more strength and weight with 2 months than I usually did
in a year. And what's most important, now I beat my friend :).

------
chipsy
The article's conclusion: Lift big with classic lifts. Gain strength.

What I actually do: Take walks and do isometrics on convenient bars, poles,
etc. Max power, 5-10 second holds, multiple angles. The better I am about
those rules, the more progress I make. More effective than any gym I've ever
been in.

~~~
fingerprinter
I understand what you are saying...isometrics are awesome...I actually do them
almost everyday and I swear by them. I also swear by dynamic tension flexing,
which brings great results.

But don't confuse those results with the results from classic big lifts. Like
I said, I do isometrics all the time, but squats, deadlifts, benchpress and
pullups are going to develop your musculature in ways isometrics never could.

What I'm doing now is a class lift style of back squats, deadlifts and
benchpress 5x5 program for strength. Progress 5 pounds each session (make sure
you start very low so you can build up) and end the each session with a
circuit of your choosing x 3 (I normally do something like BW to failure of
pullups, pushups, dips, plank, bridge/mule kick, ...then break and do it all
again). Total workout including warmup takes 45 minutes max (I warm up for
about 20 minutes).

This will build tons of muscle and you will gain strength very quickly.
Though, make sure you eat right (Paleo) and cut out the crappy foods like
grains/glutens/sugars and you will see fantastic results (if you still eat
grains and the like, you'll gain weight, but you likely won't lose any fat
.... some people call this "shitty weight" akin to drinking 2 gallons of milk
a day).

~~~
freshfey
+1 for 5x5. I'm currently on the Texas Method and I'm love the volume on the
squats and the deadlifts. I eat pre and post workout carbs though, to make
sure I got enough energy (bulking phase right now). The fat you gain is easy
to lose afterwards!

------
baddox
These links to auto-printing pages are unacceptable. Link me to the normal
display article in these cases. I'll take it from there.

~~~
Splines
Browsers should just not have auto-printing. How much time is saved by not
having to press CTRL+P? Likewise, how much time is wasted because of
unintentional print dialogs (like this one) and how much time is wasted in
developing and maintaining such a feature?

I say cut it, nobody is going to miss it.

~~~
pjscott
Printing from browsers in general is a mess. Is there a printable version of
the page? Is there a CSS stylesheet that changes the appearance for print? Do
you use Ctrl-P, or is there some little "click here to print" button you have
to find on the page to not have everything be messed up?

I didn't realize how complicated this was until I tried to explain it to my
grandparents.

------
xiaoma
The author clearly equates fitness with strength, and some of his claims are
way off.

Here's one: "...maintaining cardiovascular fitness doesn’t really take much
more than breathing uncomfortably hard for about 20 minutes, three times a
week"

As a former competitive runner, I've read hundreds of studies and abstracts
about improving various cardio-vasuclar metrics. 20 minutes, three times a
week is barely enough to generate even modest VO2 max improvements. Ideally it
takes 40-60 minutes, five times a week, plus an extra long session of over 90
minutes. This is about the minimum training you'll see in a 5k runner or 1000m
swimmer. Top 10k runners generally require 70-90 minutes a day, even when
doing interval work and have long runs of over two hours. The results of this
sort of training are measurable. LT, VO2max, resting HR and a variety of other
metrics show a dose dependent response.

Many studies[1] have also demonstrated that even recreational distance
training results in a wide variety of benefits that weight training does not,
even including increased rates of neurogenesis and longer telemeres than
average for one's age.

Weight training clearly is superior for increasing muscle and bone mass, but
it isn't a magical silver bullet that improves _everything_.

[1] I've cited all of these on hn before, most don't have paywalls and they
should be googleable.

~~~
gexla
You should quote the entire paragraph.

"Cardio machines are innocent enough, as they won’t actually make you any less
fit, but maintaining cardiovascular fitness doesn’t really take much more than
breathing uncomfortably hard for about 20 minutes, three times a week. And we
all know that swimming, hoops, bike riding, and even Ultimate Frisbee can get
the job done, and that treadmills or elliptical trainers are a pale
substitute."

Perhaps he made an incorrect claim here. But to be fair, you should go for the
point of the paragraph as opposed to one sentence from it. What he is saying
here is that the cardio machines in the gym are little better than maintenance
for cardio and are a poor substitute for other ways to get the same sort of
workout. I think this argument still fits within your own here.

The overall point of the article is that for strength, muscle mass and muscle
endurance, there is no substitute for the basic free weight exercises. That's
not to say that you should only do those exercises and that you can't benefit
from more specialized training, but that everyone still benefits from those
exercises and should make them part of a core program. The same cannot be said
for cardio machines.

~~~
xiaoma
I completely agree with you (and the article) that free weights are the way to
go over machine weights.

However, I completely disagree that weights are more important for general
fitness than cardio. This was one of the primary claims of the article, and it
wasn't backed up in any meaningful way. The part I quoted was just one
illustration of the the author's attitude. His entire focus is on strength,
not fitness.

~~~
gexla
What I got from the article is that it's mostly aimed towards the typical
local gyms. He isn't arguing cardio is unimportant. He's saying that inside a
gym the free weights are important, everything else might just be a waste of
time. The full paragraph you quoted seems to be saying cardio on a treadmill
in front of a T.V. is a waste when you could be getting the same cardio from a
different activity (such as real running.) But, if you are going for the sorts
of benefits that free weights can bring, then there really is no better
alternative except perhaps in certain extreme cases such as with elite
athletes. So again, the article is aimed at the inside of your typical gym,
not outside it, which is where you would be doing most of your running I
assume. ;)

------
Herring
I recently started on "starting strength" & I'm seeing that exact same linear
progression. It's really awesome.

------
neutronicus
As someone who just tried to start this kind of thing (heavy squat/deadlift
every couple of days) and hurt my lower back pretty good, I just don't know
about this advice.

~~~
lamnk
Then you did the exercises in bad form. Years ago my fitness condition was
like the article described: little-girl weak. My back and my neck ached a lot
after coding sessions. Fast-forward until now doing squats, dead lifts,
presses three times a week for 3 months I am much stronger, can run 2x longer
and the pain has completely gone away.

At first i followed Stronglift 5x5's advice: start with the bar only,
concentrate on proper form for at least 2 weeks and increase the load slightly
for each workout. I'm also lucky that there are sport students working as
tutors at my university gym. They are taught proper (olympic) weight lifting
so I asked them to correct my form if I did the exercises wrong. After that
it's like riding a bicycle, once learned you will never forget how to ride.

~~~
neutronicus
See, but I had done it before - 3/4 years ago I was squatting 315 for 10 reps,
so either my form was fine back then and degraded somehow or it was never good
and I just got away with it because I was young and in shape.

Either way, the article completely glosses over the "oh, by the way if you do
this wrong you will ruin your shit" aspect of squats and deadlifts, which is a
pretty compelling argument for machines in my book.

~~~
tom_b
This.

My personal experience (which includes a lovely meniscus blowout during
squats) is that even given perfect form, once you get up to heavy weights
(2x-3x bodyweight for deads and squats) you are starting to push the limits of
your body and need to realize that occasional injury is part of the total
picture.

That said, I still stay away from machines. I feel even if you're working with
light weights, the balance factor of free weights adds so much more to the
workout.

------
kenjackson
Kind of odd that there's virtually no data in this article. I feel like I
could write an article that said the complete opposite and be just as
compelling. Seems like a typical "health magazine" article. No data, just
conjecture dressed up as fact.

------
grobolom
I hate articles like this. Not because they don't highlight what a steaming
pile the actual fitness and training industry is, but because they're way too
slow. Proper training articles have existed for a long time, in easily
reachable spots. For all the stupidity at BodyBuilding.com, their forums
biggest stickies are those about the 'Starting Strength' workouts - the ones
where you deadlift, squat, and bench. T-Nation, another big one, has never
advocated anything else for a starting athlete.

I just hate when someone posts something like this and goes 'Everything You
Know Is A Lie!" No, it's not. I just happen to have read this shit eight years
ago, and that was late already.

------
mixmastamyk
Wow, a ten-page article that says almost nothing, despite the shocking title.
I think anyone serious about fitness knows that free weights and sports are
the most effective and fun ways to get there.

Also haven't heard it mentioned yet so I'll share some other good ideas for
the geeks. One is to move about a mile or two from work ... arrive every
morning refreshed instead of cursing traffic. Two, take up salsa dancing and
chat up the hot latinas. Three, get a cheap bike and ride the local hills.
Catching a beautiful sunset with a view is a fantastic reward. Also helps me
catch up with my podcasts.

------
nickg
My thoughts on "diet" vs. "exercise": they're two pieces of the same puzzle,
and I prefer to manage the "exercise" side of the equation more proactively.
Reason is because eating in (esp. in America) today is HARD. There's a lot of
crap out there, portion sizes are whack, fat, sodium and empty carbs are
everywhere. And you must eat multiple times every day, so that means you make
many DECISIONS about eating every single day (hundreds?). Fighting against the
grain (pun intended) of what food is readily available and easily accessible
is an uphill battle, filled with guilty, uncertain, and constrained decision
making.

Don't get me wrong, I still try to eat healthy (and I'm lucky to live in San
Francisco where there are more healthful options). But, the nice thing about
exercise is that you only have to make ONE DECISION every day. And that is to
do it. Once it's done, it's done. And it's not too hard to find a fitness
activity you really enjoy doing, plus the endorphin rush you get from a good
workout is amazing. When you build exercise into your lifestyle as a healthy
habit, it's not even a decision anymore, it's automatic.

I'd much rather live a healthy lifestyle with a daily (or almost daily)
fitness routine than to painstakingly count calories or awkwardly ask the
waiter to 'hold the bun, please, and remove the excess butters, sugars, fats,
and salts..' every time I go out to eat. That just makes it awkward for you
and everybody else.

------
tintin
Without the printer pop: [http://www.mensjournal.com/everything-you-know-
about-fitness...](http://www.mensjournal.com/everything-you-know-about-
fitness-is-a-lie/)

------
sofal
Okay I got up to 175 lbs for squats and then I started getting a severe,
stabbing pain in my knee when I did them. Seems to me that squats are not so
good for my knees. Leg press does not give me this problem.

Additionally, I've been doing deadlifts, and just this weekend I pulled a
muscle in my back doing 245 lbs (and no, I was not rounding my back).

As you can tell, I am becoming hugely dissatisfied with these so-called "core"
exercises. I haven't seen much improvement from them at all, and I've only
ever gotten injuries from them.

~~~
eleusive
(Disclaimer, I'm not an expert, but I can squat well over 1.5x my weight for
several reps)

For squats, you should make sure to go parallel and "sit back" at the bottom
of the movement, while pushing your knees out to the sides as you go down.
This takes the stress of the weight off of your knees and onto your posterior
chain. Otherwise you'll get hurt knees just as you described.

Not sure what could cause that deadlift problem, other than maybe trying to
lift with your back before the bar clears your knees (which until that point
your legs should be doing most of the lifting).

FWIW, it took me a long time to really get comfortable with my technique in
the heavy compound exercises, but I've seen remarkable gains from them once I
learned proper technique.

If you're really serious about doing the core exercises with proper technique,
I strongly recommend picking up a copy of Mark Rippetoe's "Starting Strength"
book. It goes into great detail the correct technique and mechanics behind the
exercises.

------
Groxx
I dunno. I was always told free-weights are better than isolation (because
you'll exercise complementary muscles), don't train the same thing until the
second day after, and you won't get far if you don't push yourself.

For a massively-super-summary: that's all they said, in 6 pages.

The rest of it is a lengthy exposition about how his motivating force was
someone who told him how pathetic he was, made him realize it instead of just
hear it, and then made him do the above.

------
ryanfitz
When it comes to lifting the only real "fact" is that what works best varies
from person to person. People with great genetics can do heavy volume lifting
5 or 6 days a week and make amazing gains. Meanwhile, others will struggle to
make any progress even with a low volume 2 day a week routine because their
body doesn't recover well.

Just go out there, experiment and see what works for you.

~~~
eru
Yes. But just include the workout from Starting Strength (or similar) in your
experiments. It should work for nearly all beginners.

------
stcredzero
_First, I realized that we all live in a kind of Fitness Fog, a miasma of lies
and misinformation that we mistake for common sense, and that makes most of
our gym time a complete waste._

The big news here, is that there are many kinds of such mental fog. You can
read this article and learn how to get fit more effectively, but there is an
even deeper lesson here.

------
phil
It's funny because this kind of article always ends up recommending a simple,
classic free weight program. Then you look at the gyms they refer to, and
they've got people doing stuff like this:

<http://www.mtnathlete.com/page.php?page_ID=2>

~~~
dpritchett
GPP [1] is the sort of thing people add to their programs when they're already
doing basic weight routines all the time and they want to see even _more_
progress. You don't have to start dragging rocks on day 1.

[1] <http://www.elitefts.com/documents/gpp.htm>

------
Bvalmont
Or: just go for the skinny pale look. Really works thanks to those twilight
and social network movies.

------
TimothyBurgess
I strongly disagree about the "stretching is bad for you" part... but I guess
he _did_ say "without your body warmed up"... you always want to stretch
before working out but get your body warmed up first by jogging in place or
doing jumping jacks or something for a few minutes. You want ballistic
stretching and static stretching. It has without a doubt helped with my
overall fitness while reducing soreness.

~~~
nickg
Stretching is best done after a strength workout to dissipate blood pooling
and lactic acid build up in the muscles. Doing so will reduce muscle soreness
and facilitate the muscle recovery process.

Of course, stretching in and of itself can (and should) be done as an
excellent standalone workout!

------
dualogy
I swear by bodyweight-only resistance / circular strength training. Currently
doing TacFit -- despite their ridiculous hard-sell marketing which is
uselessly and pointlessly "spec ops" and warrior-themed (I won't link as I'm
not affiliated other than a legit happy user). But there are more body-weight
approaches than that one. Google circular strength training / CST and much
cheaper than buying the TacFit videos would be getting a used paperback copy
of "You are your own gym".

It's body-weight only, unlike gyms no machines, unlike crossfit no other
weights.

BENEFIT: keep travelling without buying equipment you don't want to carry in
your luggage. Don't maintain x gym memberships around the world.

It burns fat (don't really need that too much yet) faster and more efficiently
in less time than hours doing aerobic running / swimming / cycling would.
Aerobic exercises may be good for heart and lungs, but for calory burning
they're laughable.

BENEFIT: muscle building and calory burning in one workout.

(Of course, if you wanna look like The Hulk you'll need to have weights at
least kettlebell dumbell or indian clubs, daily protein counting and all the
bodybuilding stuff. BUT you will look incredibly impressive with just
bodyweight / Tacfit after only 20-30 days of good form, and it only gets
better from there -- you even retain a good amount of the goodness after
pausing from it up to 2 months afterwards, which a longer hospital attendance
may force upon you).

No rep-counting, time-under-tension matters. This matches your bodily
clockworks. Your muscles don't count reps either. Time under tension, whether
you only get 2 reps under perfect form (important) or 20.

BENEFIT: no counting, just stopwatch.

There are no off-days, you cycle through 4 consecutive days (no intensity day
1: 20 mins, low intensity day 2: 20 mins, moderate intensity day 3: 40 mins,
high intensity day 4: 40 mins) all the time. After 4x7 days, it is time to
level up, adding sophistication, more challenging movements etc. to keep the
body from adapting. TacFit in my view is a pretty unique mix of exercises and
movements recombining elements of martial arts, yoga, classical bodyweight
exercises and more, that help you on joint mobility, flexibility, core
strength, muscle building, posterior improvement and both injury prevention
and proofing -- all in a pre-defined package that will last you 9 months in a
row without having to customize, modify or tweak the program. Afterwards, add
weights, take 5 days off and start from scratch, mix or match, etc.

BENEFIT: minimum time investment gets you results in all areas that matter,
including but not limited to mere appearance and looks.

Boy I sound like a marketer but this is really hacker-friendly, entrepreneur-
friendly, productive-but-time-pressed-busy-person friendly. It revolves around
so much research and experimentation done by the coaches who composed this
after decades of experience. They're on Facebook, real people giving sensible
advice to everyone and anyone dropping by asking questions. They get 70-80
year old people incredibly fit that couldn't survive neither a gym nor a
crossfit session. (But rest assured their exercises are not granny material,
they will kick your butt no matter your stage of physical development.) I'm
seriously impressed with their stuff. You can browse my past comments here
over the last 3 years, I'm not usually writing marketing copy for commercial
digital goods around here _at all_. So this is really simply "everything I
need to know about fitness" and I really do think it's the most hacker-
suitable option out there.

~~~
aik
For TacFit, what resources do you have (or would recommend)? I found one very
shady looking website selling some DVDs and a book...

~~~
dualogy
Yes the shady-looking site is the one ... I know it's just a horrible
ridiculous "spec-ops / warrior-themed" silly uber landing page. But the sports
/ education / science bits behind it are sound and a lot of effort, expertise
and coaching experience went into the videos. My guess is that this guy tried
hard to be his own marketer or hired some "ebook sales copy pro" or his cousin
to do the overall presentation. It looks shady but isn't one bit once you get
to the actual contents.

Maybe better to start from here:

<http://www.rmaxinternational.com/forum>

The TacFit coaches are also RMAX coaches or somehow connected but sell their
own TacFit creation under their own label it seems.

------
macco
My two cents on fitness:

1\. Do something you like. This way you stick to it. 2\. Don't overthink it,
if you are just doing fitness for your health. There is not such thing like a
perfect fat burning workout, etc. 3\. My ideas don't count if you are an
athlete who wants to improve on performance.

No go out and do something, dont read this crappy article

------
anukulrm
If you want to lift free weights, a great place to start is Starting Strength
by Mark Rippetoe.

------
withoutfriction
As a bible for starting fitness training, might I add that Starting Strength
[1], by Mark Rippetoe, is a must read.

[1] <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2287803>

------
chicagobob
I've been wondering about getting fit for years, then suddenly one day out of
the blue, my doctor told me the secret: "Eat Less & Work Out More"

 _smashes forehead_ , why has everyone been keep this a secret for so long :)

~~~
eru
You can also eat more. I added a few kg since I started weight lifting.

------
pge
would you take coding advice from someone that couldn't write "hello world" in
C? Then don't take fitness advice from someone that, by his own admission,
could only squat 40 lbs before he wrote the article...

~~~
jimmyk
For your analogy, he couldn't write "hello world" in C _before_ writing the
article. Before finishing the article, he was able to write software better
than the vast majority of developers. While writing the article, he received
training and advice from the person who trained the best developers. I'd sure
pay attention.

~~~
pge
I have to disagree - your assessment would suggest that at the end he was more
fit than the vast majority of people that try to be fit, and that his teacher
was the best in the world. My point was simply that he did not have a frame of
reference to evaluate the quality of the fitness program he took on relative
to other programs with competent instructors (since his lack of fitness
demonstrated that he had never had any competent instruction).

To keep the analogy from the original post, do you trust a first year CS
student to tell you the best way to learn coding? That student finally had a
competent teacher and went from zero to writing a lisp compiler in C. What he
doesnt realize is so did every other first year college CS student, and they
may have had an entirely different curriculum and experience. And they are all
at the beginning of a journey, not the end.

If the article were written by a pro athlete, for example, that had
experimented with lots of different fitness regimes over that course of a life
in which he was clearly successful in being fit, I would take it a lot more
seriously, just as I would be more interested in hearing about the best
methods of learning to write commercial applications from long-time
practitioners that had trained many teams over the years in production
environments.

~~~
jimmyk
The author does have a few indicators that his teacher was in the top tier;
the teacher trained special forces troops, the best mountain climbers, and ski
racers. These are people who you can trust to be among the best trained in
general fitness.

And in the end the author was vastly more fit than the majority of people
trying to be fit. The majority of people trying to be fit go to the gym once
in a while, do a few cardio exercises, and go home. He was among them before
meeting with this guy. He's still well below a lot of people, like
professional athletes, but the people he is still below only represent a small
fraction of the population.

I get your point though. He still can't say whether or not his trainer is the
best or if his ideas are the best. What he can say, though, is that his
trainers ideas are much better than those of the typical gym trainer at a
franchise gym. This article is clearly not targeted at Michael Phelps. It's
targeted at the average gym-goer.

------
XFrequentist
"Throw us in ice-cold water every day and we’ll sprout subcutaneous fat for
insulation"

What? Everything I know about physiology and the effects of cold exposure make
me believe that this is the opposite of the truth.

------
xster
Reminds me of the China Study where the author argues that we spend so much
time and money figuring out what individual nutrients do that we don't pay
attention to the type of food we eat anymore

------
acconrad
I hate commercial gyms. Give me a barbell that I can clean and a tire for me
to flip and I'm a happy guy.

------
peteriliev
Wow, that's interesting :)

------
sigurrostyp
This was a good read.

------
georgieporgie
I have one bit of specialized weight training advice. We all spend entirely
too much time in front of our computers, typically hunched or slouched back,
deep in thought.

Ten years of doing this professionally led to shoulder/neck problems,
culminating in a pinched nerve between my C6 and C7 vertebrae. It improved
with physical therapy, but was never truly fixed, and has bothered me off and
on for two years now, despite my adherence to the therapist's rubber band and
stretching routine.

I heard through a relative about "Upper Cross Syndrome". Whether that's
specifically what I have or not, I don't know, but the symptoms match quite
well. Read about it, and you'll probably see that it perfectly describes so
many tech people:

[http://www.active.com/fitness/Articles/Avoid_upper_cross_syn...](http://www.active.com/fitness/Articles/Avoid_upper_cross_syndrome_and_maintain_rotator_cuff_stability.htm)

Exercise 6, "External rotation top to bottom" has literally changed my life,
and it did so within the first week. For the first time in as long as I can
remember, I maintain proper posture at the keyboard (and while walking
around). I still get nerve issues if I spend too many days in a row at the
computer, but I can't describe to you how much better I feel now than I did
after physical therapy!

~~~
jobu
Thanks for the link. I recently injured my neck (c5-c6 and c6-c7), and the
physical therapist has suggested a few exercises, but was unable to explain
the purpose or benefit of them.

~~~
DTrejo
There's also a graphic further down in the article about how to prevent
various injuries (search 'kevin brown'):

<http://www.mensjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/picture-81.jpg>

------
sabat
_maintaining cardiovascular fitness doesn’t really take much more than
breathing uncomfortably hard for about 20 minutes, three times a week_

While that will help, I would not call someone who exercises at that level
"fit" or "in shape". I'd call him something less than out of shape.

There are a lot of weight-lifting people who have convinced themselves that
weights are the key, and that aerobic exercise is an afterthought.

Here's the funny thing, though: how many fat weight-lifters have you met in
your life? I've known plenty.

How many fat runners have you ever met?

------
drstrangevibes
great article , the only question I have is how to accurately measure when
your muscles reach super compensation peak?

~~~
eru
For starters: You don't. Just do your strength training three times a week,
more or less every two days. Works.

------
puredemo
TL;DR: Stronglifts.

------
barista
That's right because us hackers really care about fitness

~~~
Dylanlacey
Because I can't downvote you, I'll comment.

We do. A lot. Because we're not sitting in our parent's basements eating pizza
and chugging mountain dew, we're not hacking the gibson and we're not sweaty,
unbathed, pimply losers.

We're motivated, we're not planning to die anytime soon, we're concerned with
being able to do things, we're social, we're active and we're sick of the
stereotypes.

I'm going to make a massive assumption that your sarcasm was intended to hide
the fact that you yourself are ashamed of your fitness. You can't hide behind
your profession, your job or your peers. You are the reason you are unfit,
unhealthy, eat badly and don't exercise. There truly is no-one else to blame.

But since you're here I assume you have a desire to change the world somehow,
so I truly hope you're able to get past any shame and fear you may feel and do
something about your problem.

If a feeling of inadequacy is not the problem, they you need to socialize more
with hackers... Being a slob in the basement went out the window with the
Apple Lisa and Gen X having hair.

~~~
tomjen3
Looking at your comment, I can't understand why it got upvoted since you are
just replacing one set of stereotypes with another, which may fit better with
what society wants you to but is still a stereotype.

Now if you want that thats perfectly alright, but I at least only want to
spend as little time as possible caring about my body and as little time as
possible with normal people since both things are utterly boring.

~~~
mattgreenrocks
> Now if you want that thats perfectly alright, but I at least only want to
> spend as little time as possible caring about my body and as little time as
> possible with normal people since both things are utterly boring.

You do have a point. Conformity is not the way. But, at the same time, I'm sad
you feel those things are boring. Allow me to explain.

I used to be in your shoes, at least in the fitness aspect. I was a bit of a
curmudgeon who'd figured life out at age 24 and decided that I'd be happy
programming for, well, ever. That worked well until about age 27, when it
started to wear thin. Deadlines, feature creep, a billion new
technologies...who cares? It was losing its luster quickly. When I turned 28,
I came down with carpal tunnel-like symptoms stemming from an overuse injury.
I had to leave my job to give my body time to heal. I learned the hard way
that I had to respect my body, and respect myself more.

The time I've put in on fitness has enhanced the rest of my life a
disproportionate amount. I'm much smarter about what I eat, and I feel better,
and I sleep so much better now. Because the sleep is higher quality, I don't
need as much of it. I awaken ready to engage the day, rather than slinking
through it. The secret of this is that the body was never meant to be
disconnected from the mind. The two are engaged in an continual feedback loop
whereby one is reinforcing the actions of the others with beliefs/chemicals.
You just need to gently prod the two into better habits in order to feel
better.

As for people, well, that's what life's all about.

~~~
maayank
What resources/books do you recommend for learning about proper diet?

~~~
mattgreenrocks
I'm not sure I'm really qualified here :). I've beentrying to limit intake of
processed substances as much as possible. For most of my life, they were the
norm, and I'm slowly phasing them out. This took the form of not going out for
lunch, trying to snack on fruit, drinking water in lieu of soda/coffee/juice
as much as possible, and eating more veggies.

I'm still happy to eat out with friends, mind you.So I suppose you could say I
became more aware of what I was eating, rather than remaining apathetic about
it.

