
Ask HN: What age do you expect to be able to retire? - curiousgeek
If you are a software developer or if you work in a software related company, what&#x27;s the age by you expect to be financially independent such that you no longer need to work solely for the money?<p>What are some common mistakes software engineers make that prevent them from getting their sooner?
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yodsanklai
Funny to read that a lot of young people expect to retire at 40.

A friend of mine did it, at 30. It sounded like a good plan. Living in a
developing country with a small capital. Ten years later, he's broke,
isolated, unable to travel or to access good medical care or even to provide
good education to his daughter. At 40, after 10 years of doing nothing in a
poor country, he has very limited options to make money.

Another thing to keep in mind is that retiring implies a change in lifestyle.
Once you get used to a lifestyle, it's difficult to go back.

To answer the question, I think I'll retire the day where I'm unable to work.
Hopefully not before my 60s.

~~~
badpun
> Ten years later, he's broke

Sounds like bad planning (or a lot of bad luck).

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sleazebreeze
Not too far off it myself, but I save 75%+ of my post-tax income. Note that I
do not deprive myself of luxuries, I am merely skilled at delayed
gratification and grew up very financially unstable. I have a lovely 2017 car
with < 1600 miles on it (purchased brand new), but I take the bus to work, for
example. I do keep my finances very close to my chest for fear of judgement
from others - I did not reveal the $ amount to my fiance-to-be until we had
been dating for 4 years.

My timeline is 5-10 years to be safe (age ~40). However, I get satisfaction
out of creating and delivering software, beyond collecting a paycheck and
don't have any intention to stop working - just not as a wage slave once I've
reached my number.

I am hard-pressed to think of mistakes that software engineers would make that
people in other professions don't make - there are the usual things like
buying too much house, too much car or letting someone else spend your money.
Perhaps the only unique-ish mistake would be to assume the large salaries will
last forever and not save for contingencies. My impression of people in
finance is that they know they're worked like dogs, so they are trying to get
out as soon as possible. Tech is so cushy that people can get lulled into
forgetting that there's more to life than foosball and free lunch.

~~~
Maro
When I lived in Budapest, I was able to save ~50% of my invome. When I lived
in London, I was able to save 60-70% of my income. Here in Dubai I can save
70-80%.

Reason: (i) no kids (ii) I don't need anything other than phones and Macbooks
and some shoes (iii) no expensive cars/houses to maintain (iv) high income
(but not out of the ordinary for Eng).

More generally: earn money in high pay cities and live frugally (London,
Dubai), spend money in low cost cities (Budapest). Works like a charm.

~~~
digianarchist
I'm surprised that you were able to save more money in London than Budapest.

Rents in London are prohibitively expensive. Did you share a place?

In Toronto my min-expenses swallow 50% of my salary.

~~~
Maro
I had significantly higher income in London, at Facebook. I saved about 50% of
my base salary, but I got lots of bonus/stock money on top of that.

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toomuchtodo
I’m currently 35, I will be able to retire at 38. Married, one kid, one on the
way.

* Don’t rent in a high cost of living location; purchase in such a location only under the assumption that your property might lose value

* Don’t waste money on depreciating assets (never buy a new car, no iPhone upgrade cycle)

* Do live below your means, keep your expenses in check, credit card debt must be avoided like the plague; no cable TV, cheap phone service, no Starbucks

* Do save at least 15-20% of your pretax income in retirement accounts, the more the better (contribute enough to your 401k to get company match, then max IRA, then contribute again to 401k up to annual limit, then taxable accounts, generally); I suggest a low expense ratio target date fund for retirement accounts, with anything above %0.20 being exorbitant

* Don’t value your ISOs at anything above $0; cash is king

* Don’t get attached to your job; you are a mercenary, attempting to extract as many dollars per hour as you can (either FTE or freelance); friendly coworkers and beer in the office fridge doesn’t cover retirement expenses

* Do be interviewing and job seeking passively to stay practiced and ready

* Do fund ways to invest in productive, income generating assets (rental properties are my thing, YMMV)

Good luck!

~~~
Red_Tarsius
That's a great achievement! What career did you pursue? Do you have any other
advice for people in their '20s? I hope I'm not being too forward. I'm 2Xyo
and, long story short, I didn't accomplish much in the past 5 years. Hopefully
I can turn the tide for the best.

Edit: Thank you! I really appreciated your detailed reply.

~~~
toomuchtodo
high school dropout->Junior sysadmin->senior sysadmin->managed hosting
division manager after acquisition->it manager->infrastructure engineer->it
manager->vp infrastructure->infrastructure engineer->cloud security architect

I didn’t start saving heavily until my late 20s, so I hustled hard to save
faster (day gig, consulting as much as possible for 3 years) while supporting
my disabled mother. The best piece of advice I can give is save early and save
more. The longer you put off saving, the harder it is to catch up.

I succeeded from nothing except innate curiosity, grit, and a huge helping of
luck. You can too.

Edit: You’re welcome! I wish you much success.

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askafriend
I want to reach that milestone by 35 ideally.

I expect to get lucky somewhere along the way. My basic plan is to work hard
and work with people who are the best in the industry whether at a startup or
at a top large company. If I do that for 15-20 years, I don't see why I don't
have a high chance of being rewarded in the technology industry (again,
assuming a bit of luck along in the journey). My personal "number" is at least
$2.5m in assets with at least half of it in fairly liquid financial vehicles.
I think I can reasonably achieve that with my strategy. A number closer to
$3.5-5m would make me super, super proud if I could ever achieve that kind of
success.

I try to work out everyday to stay healthy and fit. I try not to make dumb
purchases or spend too extravagantly - but that doesn't mean I don't spend big
every now and then. I try to pace myself in my work (no working on weekends,
for example). I try to recognize burnout early and take steps to prevent it. I
try to learn as much about finance and investing as possible. I try to make
the more risky but smart bets over more conservative options when possible. I
try to take pride in my work and not get cynical (not easy). These are some of
the things that help me take a long term view of my career and keep my
relatively aggressive goal in sight.

But even with all that being said, life is short so I know that the goal isn't
an end in and of itself. Who knows what'll happen along the way - I could get
hit by a train tomorrow. That's why I still try to appreciate each day for
what it is.

Notice I used "try" a lot. I don't always succeed, but I'm always trying :)

~~~
rco8786
You want to hit your number by age 35 but you still need to work for 15-20
years? Does not compute?

~~~
askafriend
Just used an arbitrary range to convey "a significant amount of time". Didn't
want to give away my age on here, heh. I've got a few years in the industry
under my belt, but by no means nearing retirement anytime soon.

Also to be clear, I probably wouldn't stop working if I hit my number - I
would probably just work on different things or have a more flexible on/off
work schedule.

Also remember, luck is an important piece of it, so if you've got some to
spare, I'd be happy to take it off your hands.

~~~
rco8786
I think I've officially used all mine up, but it's out there!

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contingencies
Already there since this year @ 35, with kids. Previously retired at 23, with
lower expectations. Don't consider myself a teacher - that was mostly luck.

However, common mistakes: Not demanding equity, not understanding equity and
options, living in overpriced cities, thinking the latest technology is
somehow more important than the one that stood the test of time.

I can't recommend the annual _Venture Deals_ course from Techstars enough to
really grok equity deals, as these are _really_ where the money comes from,
whether you are founding or an employee. In the US anyway, tax is an
aberration.

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Pooky
I don't see retirement as anything worth to chase. My basic believe is that
you should be able to enjoy your work, learn something new and do all possible
to balance your work and life style. If you work only for the money than you
should stop and try to do something else, even if it would cut your income.
It's no shame to have regular income and many times you will have more free
time and less stress than people who always work for big buck of money.

------
Veratyr
In theory, if I wished, I could retire right now. My wife is Russian, houses
are very cheap in her area and I've managed to save a good portion of my bay
area income over the past few years.

Realistically though, more like 40 (another 17 years). I generally save about
half my income, which over the next 17 years should build to >$1M, which is
enough to buy a house outright in a nice area with a few hundred thousand left
over to spend on living expenses.

> What are some common mistakes software engineers make that prevent them from
> getting their sooner?

Living and working in the bay area, spending their money. If you work at
MicroGoogleBookZon, you can usually transfer to a region with a lower cost of
living without much of a salary hit and save that money. Even if you stay in
the bay area, you can drastically reduce the cost of living by increasing your
commute or living with others. It's less pleasant but you don't have to do it
as long.

Also, you don't have to retire to the same place you save your money in. You
can work and save in Seattle, then retire to say rural Minnesota. If you're
happy with that, you can retire much earlier.

~~~
noretire
You’re only 23 and you want to retire?

~~~
Veratyr
As soon as I can! I think it's insane that I'm spending my most able-bodied
years sitting behind a desk writing code all day instead of with my wife or
(not yet conceived) children.

~~~
monsieurbanana
Maybe in a hundred years it will be insane, once society catches up with
technological progress.

For now, what's insane is thinking that society can survive with people not
working in their able-bodied years.

~~~
Veratyr
If I were working in a field that required an able body I might agree with you
but I'm not performing manual labour, society would get just as much value
from me overall if I had my retirement now and spent my 40s and 50s writing
code instead.

It's already silly that I'm spending my 20s and 30s writing code.

Plus the code I write doesn't do anything for society's survival. We could
just about switch the entire tech industry to maintenance mode, cut jobs by
90% and society would get along just fine, as long as we figure out a way to
distribute necessities like food and housing without money.

The same can be said about an enormous chunk of the workforce. We're forced to
work for survival but the jobs we perform aren't truly necessary, they're
ultimately derived from an illogical and unsustainable obsession with growth.

Most of society doesn't _need_ to be working at all and society would get
along just fine if it wanted. It just doesn't want to.

------
siberianbear
I retired a few years ago, shortly after I turned forty. I worked in Silicon
Valley for a long time and saved almost all of my take-home income, which is
what allowed me to amass a large sum.

When I was living in Silicon Valley, I couldn't wrap my head around how much
pointless consumption my colleagues engaged in. Couldn't they see that they
could escape this stupid rat race and leave if they just saved their money? I
guess the liked the rat race more than I did. I hated the rat race and don't
regret leaving. I should have retired sooner.

~~~
countryqt30
Isn't 40-45 extremely old for SF? Most FANG-engineers can probably retire by
their late 20s in my experience.

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Maven911
50 but it doubtful at the savings rate I am going at. Not retire retire, but
no longer have to worry about being stuck in a crummy job and take breaks or
move companies as I see fit.

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peterburkimsher
I don't think I'll reach financial security in my lifetime.

Political issues have caused me to wander around the world looking for a
country willing to simply give me a visa. I'm now 28, and finally got 3 years
of work experience in Taiwan, which will be enough to start applying for a
Skilled Migrant Category (NZ) or Express Entry (Canada) visa.

I have no debt. No car. No house. My salary here is low, but my living costs
are also low. Flights are expensive though, so I have to spend 3 months
savings to visit relatives once a year.

I have a maximum wage, because my work visa doesn't allow me to have a second
source of income.

If I am lucky to get a visa to a Western country, then I might earn more. Then
I can spend it on the extortionate rents, saving for getting married, and when
that's paid off, a good education for future kids.

I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to afford to have kids at all, and if I do,
I'm pretty sure I won't be able to retire. I'm certain that I'll never be rich
enough to buy a house. Maybe I'll get a driving license after I need to drive
kids around; until then I'll keep riding a bike. AI will learn to drive before
I do.

~~~
Veratyr
I recognized this story from the "made in the USA" thread
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15794202](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15794202))
and thought your story a little curious so thought I'd look into it a little
more (i.e. Google your name).

Assuming this is you:
[https://peterburk.github.io/](https://peterburk.github.io/)

"Political issues have caused me to wander around the world looking for a
country willing to simply give me a visa."

What are these nebulous "political issues"? Why do you think wandering around
the world is likely to result in a visa?

You say in your bio: "Where am I from? To the English, England. To the Swiss,
Switzerland. To the French, France." You also claim to have lived in France
most of your life, which would entitle you to French citizenship should you
wish it.

You should be able to live and work in the UK, Switzerland or pretty much
anywhere in the EU. What exactly is preventing you from doing so?

> If I am lucky to get a visa to a Western country, then I might earn more.

Again, do you not have English, Swiss or French citizenship? Can't you work in
most of Europe?

It sounds like you should be work in most western countries and derive a
western income without any problems.

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expertentipp
Hopefully at the retirement age of the country I'll reside in. Taking into
account how pension system works, demography of the countries over here, and
how painful is it to have benefits transferred between EU countries, even this
will be not easy.

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crypticlizard
Well if bitcoin hits 1M like Mcafee says, 2020....

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Maro
36, at current pace could retire at 38-40.

Probably won't happen, because I will eventually do a startup and burn some of
the money, plus hopefully I'll have kids soon and everything will go out the
window ;)

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kleer001
Now, at 40, but I still wanna work as it's hella fun,

Same mistakes as anyone, namely not saving enough and being too emotional
about financial decisions.

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herbst
I love working. I hope I create software to some degree as long as my brain
works. I am below 30 and already reduced my work time to 'work when I want to'
plus a few extra emails so retirement is by far not my main target right now.
I basically am able to enjoy life right now to the fullest.

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consz
late 20s. Probably could retire right now; planning on retiring by 32-35.

I save between 95-98% of my income. Max out all tax-advantaged accounts (401k,
Roth IRA if income is low enough). No children.

Easiest mechanism, by far, is to reduce spending. After rent + eating out +
drugs, I average between 100-200 a month in spending.

I think, if you're able to reduce spending heavily, you should aim for the
highest possible salary you can get, regardless of cost of living (well, no
company in the world could afford to pay me to move to SFBA, but that's more
for personal reasons).

Value all options at zero -- all my compensation has always been in cash.

Invest money. I prefer putting 110% into S&P 500 indices (low effort;
typically 30-60minutes/year of work). Some people prefer rental properties. Do
whatever is most diversified if your goal is retirement.

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segmondy
2053, 36years from now. :-(

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rco8786
Currently 31, will likely have the option around 40 (or early 40s) at current
pace. Don’t think I actually would that early though.

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SirLJ
I can retire already (pretty much at around 40, but I do really love my job,
so every year I am postponing for 1 more year :-)

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xaedes
All these numbers here... Realistically I can expect to be able to retire at
67!

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cormacus
I live in Russia, and I doubt that I'll ever be financially independent.

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shRaj9fEc8Vith
i save 80% of my salary but still don't feel like much. living in a low cost
country, i think i would be able to retire comfortably in 10 years (~40 years
old).

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tmaly
I plan on working till the end

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juicyfroot
34 now.

Will retire by age 40.

Save money, buy duplexes, triplexes and fourplexes.

Already making 1k/month profit and living for free with roof over my head.

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noretire
Depends on what year I die.

