
ACTA killed in EU parliament: 478 votes to 39 - charliesome
http://falkvinge.net/2012/07/04/victory-acta-suffers-final-humiliating-defeat-in-european-parliament/
======
rickmb
As expected.

Even most pro-ACTA parties voted against to save their countries leaders from
having to find another way out of this mess now that public opinion turned
against it. Blaming the EU parliament is a relatively cheap and easy way to
nullify their previous commitment (and signatures!), and one that won't result
in US sanctions against individual member states.

It's basically a get-out-of-jail card for those countries that did a 180 and
would no longer ratify ACTA despite signing it.

~~~
sjtgraham
For once the EU parliament is good for something!

~~~
yaix
It has been good for many things so far, it just doesn't get reported usually.

And if the Constitution Treaty hadn't been rejected by popular vote some years
ago, the EP would actually have much more influence over the Commission.

~~~
rickmb
"more influence" isn't good enough in a democracy. These are supposed to be
the people's representatives. Calling the treaty a "constitution" without it
guaranteeing civil rights and true democracy was an insult to the people, and
quite rightly buried by those that were allowed to vote on it.

The EP is a joke, a political instrument played by the same people that
supported ACTA, and is now being used as a way to get out of it.

Which in all makes it more significant. In reality, it isn't so much that the
EP stopped ACTA, but the people who first supported it (people with actual
power) that have changed their minds, even though most of them can't admit so
directly because of international (read "US") relations. In the long term,
that (changing minds) is the bigger victory.

~~~
yaix
"more influence" is enough. In a democracy, nobody has but "influence", that's
called "checks and balances". Giving real power to any human being --elected
or not-- is generally a bad idea.

------
rlpb
Is there a list of the MEPs who voted yes? I'd like to make sure to vote these
MEPs out if I have the opportunity, and I'm sure others would as well.

~~~
obtu
Here's a raw list of those who voted for ACTA

ALDE: Newton Dunn, Takkula

EFD: Allam, Provera, Tzavela

PPE: Audy, Bendtsen, Berra, Cadec, Casini, Dantin, Dati, Deß, Florenz, Gahler,
Gallo, Gauzès, Grossetête, Hortefeux, Juvin, Lamassoure, Langen, Le Brun, Le
Grip, Lehne, Mathieu, Morin-Chartier, Motti, Ponga, Posselt, Proust,
Quisthoudt-Rowohl, Riquet, Rivellini, Roatta, Sanchez-Schmid, Vlasto, Weber
Manfred

S&D: Moreira

And those who abstained:

ALDE: Chatzimarkakis, De Backer, Hirsch, Klinz, Krahmer, Lambsdorff, Manders,
Meissner, Paulsen, Reimers, Thein, Theurer

ECR: Ashworth, Bradbourn, Cabrnoch, Callanan, Campbell Bannerman, Chichester,
Deva, Elles, Eppink, Fajmon, Ford, Foster, Fox, Girling, Hannan, Harbour,
Karim, Kirkhope, Kožušník, McClarkin, McIntyre, Nicholson, Ouzký, Stevenson,
Strejček, Swinburne, Tannock, Tošenovský, Van Orden, Vlasák, Yannakoudakis,
Zahradil, Zīle, van Dalen, Češková

EFD: Rossi, Salavrakos, Vanhecke

PPE: Albertini, Andrikienē, Angelilli, Auconie, Ayuso, Becker, Boulland, Böge,
Băsescu, Caspary, Collin-Langen, Correa Zamora, De Veyrac, Dehaene, Dorfmann,
Ehler, Essayah, Estaràs Ferragut, Feio, Fisas Ayxela, Fjellner, Fraga Estévez,
Gardini, Gargani, Garriga Polledo, Giannakou, Gräßle, Herranz García, Higgins,
Hohlmeier, Hökmark, Iacolino, Ibrisagic, Jahr, Jeggle, Jiménez-Becerril
Barrio, Jordan, Kalniete, Karas, Kariņš, Kelly, Klaß, Koch, Koumoutsakos,
Kratsa-Tsagaropoulou, Kuhn, Kukan, Köstinger, La Via, Liese, Lope Fontagné,
Lulling, López-Istúriz White, Macovei, Marinescu, Matera, Mato Adrover,
Matula, Mauro, Mazej Kukovič, McGuinness, Mikolášik, Millán Mon, Mitchell,
Muscardini, Mészáros, Naranjo Escobar, Niebler, Ortiz Vilella, Pack,
Papastamkos, Patrão Neves, Pieper, Pietikäinen, Pirker, Preda, Pöttering,
Reul, Rübig, Salafranca Sánchez-Neyra, Sarvamaa, Saudargas, Saïfi,
Schnellhardt, Schnieber-Jastram, Schwab, Sedó i Alabart, Seeber, Sommer,
Striffler, Svensson, Tatarella, Thyssen, Tıkés, Ulmer, Vaidere, Verheyen,
Voss, Weisgerber, Wieland, Winkler Hermann, Zalba Bidegain, Zanicchi, Zeller,
Záborská, de Grandes Pascual, del Castillo Vera, Šadurskis, Šťastný

S&D: Christensen, Correia de Campos, Costa, Jørgensen, Schaldemose, Thomsen

from page 19 of this document:
[http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=PV&re...](http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=PV&reference=20120704&format=PDF&language=EN&secondRef=RES-
RCV)

~~~
bergie
Scary number of Finnish names in that list.

~~~
Tuna-Fish
Exactly one. And Takkula is an opportunist turncoat who has pretty much zero
chance of being re-elected in the next MEP election. (The centre party
probably won't accept him on their list.)

~~~
bergie
Ok, correction: _Finnish-sounding_ names

------
willvarfar
Commissioner Karel De Gucht said recently he'd re-field it until it passed:

> If you decide for a negative vote before the European Court rules, let me
> tell you that the Commission will nonetheless continue to pursue the current
> procedure before the Court, as we are entitled to do. A negative vote will
> not stop the proceedings before the Court of Justice.

[http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120625/12333619468/eu-
com...](http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120625/12333619468/eu-commissioner-
reveals-he-will-simply-ignore-any-rejection-acta-european-parliament-next-
week.shtml)

~~~
maggit
That's addressed directly in TFA:

> The European Commissioner responsible for the treaty, Karel de Gucht, has
> said that he will ignore any rejections and re-table it before the European
> Parliament until it passes. That’s not going to happen. Parliament takes its
> dignity very seriously and does not tolerate that kind of contempt,
> fortunately. This is something relatively new in the history of the European
> Union’s democracy – the first time I saw Parliament stand up for its dignity
> was during the Telecoms Package, where the Commission also tried to ram
> through three-strikes provisions. (Instead, Parliament made “three strikes”
> schemes illegal in the entire European Union.)

~~~
willvarfar
yes, but the article is written by an activist with obvious bias.

Not a bad thing, but TFA isn't authoritative.

~~~
toyg
Regardless of bias, it is a fact that the Parliament, being a relatively new
institution with very vague and weak powers (compared to the Commission and
the Council), is eager to pick as many constitutional fights as it can win.

In this sense, the Commissioner's remarks were like a red drape waved in front
of a sleepy bull, and were probably the main cause for such an overwhelming
rejection.

Never tell politicians that they don't matter; it's the best way to motivate
them to prove you wrong.

------
hobin
I'm very happy about this. Not only because ACTA was bad, but also because
this shows the views of the parliament were fairly congruent with the views of
the public - and that's always a good thing in a democracy.

Of course, the battle ain't over yet.

~~~
molmalo
While this is really good news, and should be celebrated, I'm still asking
myself if this would have been approved if a draft wouldn't have leaked.
However, we must not rest on our laurels, as I'm sure something else will
appear sooner than later to replace ACTA.

------
gouranga
A victory of common sense. It's nice to see a logical outcome rather than a
sponsored outcome (which is how the US and its intensive lobbying works).

~~~
Silhouette
For what it's worth, some of us _have_ been lobbying our MEPs. We just did it
the old-fashioned way, by writing to them and asking them not to support this
if they want us to vote for them next time.

It will be interesting to see what really killed this agreement. I'd like to
think it was a principled stand against conducting negotiations behind closed
doors, or an objection to the dubious copyright provisions, or perhaps the
implications for supplying medicines to developing nations.

Sadly, I suspect in reality it was at least partly driven by fear of
association with politically toxic subjects like SOPA/PIPA. Still, a win's a
win, and if the result here is as straightforward as the reports so far imply,
hopefully ACTA is effectively dead in Europe now whatever the (unelected)
Commission and (unelected) representatives of national governments might
prefer.

~~~
gouranga
A big thank you to those who did lobby!

I concur with the toxicity of the subject.

Unfortunately, as I live in the UK, I suspect that ACTA could reveal itself
again here.

~~~
Silhouette
I'm in the UK as well, and have similar worries. My own MP (Julian Huppert in
Cambridge) seems to be fairly clued up about these technical/IP issues, but I
fear he is in a small minority within Parliament as a whole.

There is a certain kind of person -- I'm still not sure whether it's in the
political classes or whether it's an ingrained assumption/bias at the top of
the civil service -- who keeps supporting harsh IP-related laws. I don't
assume that they're doing it out of malice. I think there _are_ good arguments
for having a robust IP framework, at least until someone demonstrates anything
more effective at promoting creation and distribution of new works.

But at the same time, as a practical matter, there is inevitably a balance to
be struck between enforcing someone's IP rights and protecting someone else's
rights of privacy, freedom of expression, and so on. I get the feeling that a
lot of the briefings used to persuade representatives to vote for these
draconian laws aren't paying much attention to the costs in these areas, only
to the assumed economic benefits of having a strong IP regime in place. At
least if the problem is ignorance rather than malice/corruption, one possible
solution is education, and thus I write to my representatives in the hope that
at least some of them will listen.

FWIW, I had about a 50% response rate to a letter to 7 MEPs on this subject,
although I don't think I should count the one whose letter basically repeated
each of my points verbatim but with the words "I understand that..." at the
start of each sentence!

~~~
aurelianito
> FWIW, I had about a 50% response rate to a letter to 7 MEPs on this subject,
> although I don't think I should count the one whose letter basically
> repeated each of my points verbatim but with the words "I understand
> that..." at the start of each sentence!

3.5 MEPs answered?

~~~
Silhouette
Well, technically 5/7 replied, but two were little better than auto-reply
e-mails mumbling something about sending a reply later (which never came in
either case) so I discounted those to leave 3/7 and called it around 50%.

One of those was the utterly vacuous letter I mentioned, so I think I should
discount that one as well.

So really, I got only two substantive replies (for the record, one was from a
Lib Dem and the other from a UKIP MEP) that genuinely addressed the issue I'd
brought up and explained their position.

------
TazeTSchnitzel
As someone else pointed out, the concept of Intellectual Property, its goals,
and how it is enforced continues to diverge on the two sides of the Atlantic,
which is probably a good thing.

~~~
flyinRyan
This probably comes down to the kinds of democracies. In the US we have a two
party system where both candidates are the same in most cases. Do you want to
vote pro ACTA or pro ACTA?

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Well, the UK (where I'm from) isn't much better. I'd call it 2.5 party system.
Two large parties: Labour (centre-left), Conservative (centre-right), and the
small Liberal Democrats (centre to centre-left), and the minority parties. But
both Labour and the Conservatives keep moving closer to the centre. And quite
a lot of issues you wouldn't have any choice on. For instance, same-sex
marriage: Do you want same-sex marriage, same-sex marriage, or same-sex
marriage?

~~~
Aqwis
Should one of the parties also support slavery just so that you have a choice?
Eventually an issue reaches a point where the vast majority of the population
supports an issue (such as keeping slavery illegal), and when that happens it
shouldn't be a surprise that no parties are against it. I hope and think this
is what has happened to the issue of same-sex marriage in the UK.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Oh of course. I'm in favour of same-sex marriage, personally, and I like the
fact almost every important party supports it.

I'm just using it as an example of something that there is very little real
democratic choice on, however.

------
debacle
It's strange to live in a world where sanity feels like insanity.

~~~
nsns
I believe you mean, where the common good triumphs over personal agendas.

IMO, in a democracy, we have only ourselves to blame, it's our indifference
that manifests as our leaders' arrogance and ignorance.

------
belorn
An important event for subjects outside intellectual property context. The
next time someone has the bright idea to create a treaty in secret, people can
point to ACTA as an cautionary tale. It alone is maybe the most important
victory from this.

------
andion
Great, thanks to this thread comments I have realized the only representative
"my" party has on the EU Parliament did not vote... but her last bog post says
she is happy they wont let ACTA to be approved. I feel... sad

------
acqq
There are other laws that are in procedure with the same dangerous lines:
TRIPPS IPRED. Europeans, take care, there's more work to do!

------
mtgx
Next up: TPP. Bring it MPAA/Obama administration!

~~~
Joakal
Actually, the government has no idea what's being proposed in the treaties yet
the apparent American diplomats are pushing it.

[http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120629/13095119537/ustr-r...](http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120629/13095119537/ustr-
rejects-rep-issas-request-to-observe-tpp-negotiations.shtml)

------
malandrew
Even though ACTA is dead, I would like to see those 39 that voted for it lose
their seat in office over it.

------
kahawe
> _The European Commissioner responsible for the treaty, Karel de Gucht, has
> said that he will ignore any rejections and re-table it before the European
> Parliament until it passes_

Is it just me with limited political understanding or is making this claim
publicly just an outrageous slap in the face of EU citizens and democracy?
Could someone with better understanding shed some light on the processes at
hand and how de Gucht could make that statement without instantly being oust
from office?

~~~
bahadden
That seems to be how the EU works. They did exactly that when Ireland rejected
the Lisbon treaty. Ignored the referendum results and basically told them to
go back and vote again, until they came up with the right result.

Also De Gucht was appointed to office, not voted in. There is no democratic
way to oust him.

~~~
eco
Appointed by whom?

~~~
rmc
EU Commissoners are appointed by member states. Roughly one commisoner per
state. The European Parliament is elected by the people. The Council of
Ministers is made up of the governments.

~~~
zspade
Can not be un-appointed, or are they like US Supreme court judges and serve
for "life".

~~~
rmc
They can be removed from office, yes. The European Parliament can even impeech
the lot of them.

