
Sitting May Be Bad for Your Heart - hvo
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/20/well/move/why-sitting-may-be-bad-for-your-heart.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-1&action=click&contentCollection=Well&region=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article
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sixdimensional
Taking a bigger picture view, this makes me wonder.. we took so much effort to
move from the industrial age, where hands on work, always active all day work
took its toll on workers, to the service or knowledge age, where we sit all
day and that takes its toll.

Surely the answer lies somewhere in-between, that we must rest, and we must
move, and the amount of each must be relative to each person and activity.

I would prefer to see studies not just trying to prove things bad (we have
enough of those), but focuses on what can be proven to be a positive, for
example, the optimal mixture of activity and rest for different people and
situations.

For example, in addition to "sitting may be bad for your heart" (while
necessary and important), I would like to see more of the studies that say
"for age group <Y>, occupation <Z>, walking for <N> interval followed by
resting for <M> interval increased <X> or <Y> positive benefits".

Since we automated a lot of manual labor, maybe the next big thing is
automating sitting all day so we can get up and walk around.

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CM30
Stick the computer on an exercise bike, set it up so its powered by a dynamo
and get the programming, marketing and sales teams to cycle while working.
Okay, that's not a good idea, but it's one I can see a executive coming up
with to 'promote a healthy lifestyle' at one of those newfangled offices Apple
and Google and the likes have.

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tintor
Apple and Google already have walking treadmill desks, which serves the same
purpose.

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mc32
Do they get used much, or do they sit unused, somewhere out of the way?

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jpm_sd
There's approximately one per floor, and they often sit idle.

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bluGill
Unfortunately while there is evidence that sitting all day is bad, we don't
know if/what alternatives are good. Is standing better, or do you need to
move? Maybe it is staring at something close (monitor, papers...) and sitting
is only bad as a proxy (I know of no study that can actually say that
hypothesis is wrong even though I just made it up). Modern life currently
requires a lot of people to spend a lot of time at computers, so we need to
know how to be healthy while at computers.

I like having a motorized desk, but I don't think I could actually stand all
day long, (other than the same breaks someone sitting all day would take). I
tried a treadmill desk a time or two, but I don't have the option of using it
daily.

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nxsynonym
I think the only real alternative is to get rid of the 8+ hour work day.

Correct me if there is evidence to the contrary, but I don't think humans were
designed to sit or stand in one position for extended periods of time,
habitually.

Unfortunately I don't see the 8 hour work day going away any time soon, so imo
the best option is to alternate sitting/standing and take as many walking
around breaks as possible.

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keenerd
> _Correct me if there is evidence to the contrary, but I don 't think humans
> were designed to sit or stand in one position for extended periods of time,
> habitually._

Hard evidence? I can't give you that. But look at all of the other mammals out
there. Almost all of them spend substantial amounts of time sitting.

Traditional hunter-gatherer societies do almost of their work and food
processing sitting down. Every hobbyist flint-knapper works sitting down.

The difference is they don't use _chairs._ Sitting in a chair is bad - just
consider the risk of embolisms on long flights. It removes the need for your
body to actively support itself and restricts motion. Anecdote of size one,
but for me the biggest help was getting rid of the traditional "throne" chair
and replacing it a very broad stool. I can comfortably sit cross legged on it
all day. I'm constantly moving and shifting my weight forwards and back,
leaning and reaching since I can't just roll a chair around.

It has required making some unusual furniture to use a computer comfortably.
Like all of my keyboards are tilted the "wrong" way (away from me) with the
front higher than the back. Much easier on my hands and wrists.

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RankingMember
Got any pictures of this stool?

~~~
amatecha
Yeah I'd be curious to see as well, if it's got some unique properties to it
that would be useful to take example from :)

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glenstein
Every time an article about the (very important!) dangers of sitting makes the
rounds, it always brings in people with a bad case of switcheroo fever, who
come in and say something to the effect of "well actually, standing can cause
injuries too!"

But that's never followed up with any clear conclusions about the relative
dangers of standing vs. sitting. The conversation is left with a dangling
implication that _maybe_ standing is just as bad as sitting. Or worse, we're
left with a vague, open ended exhortation about how the body is really
complicated.

This always annoys the heck out of me. At a bare minimum, we should at least
be able to come away from these articles with the conclusion that we shouldn't
sit for substantial periods, and that we definitely should throw ourselves
into some other alternative, whatever it's complications are.

The risk of injuries from standing should be mitigated however they have to be
mitigated, but it we shouldn't let that complication muddy the waters on the
more fundamental point about sedentary behavior still being bad even if the
alternatives have problems too.

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feelandcoffee
I hope this study don't revive the trend of standing desks again. Look I know
being sedentary will rob me a few years of life, but going full opposite and
being stand 9 to 5 it's Dante inferno at work. Probably the best balance will
be having a routine with exercise present, and small breaks to stand and walk
a little bit at X minutes sitting.

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sdiupIGPWEfh
It's almost as if it's lack of constant (even low-grade) activity that's the
problem, rather than whether you're sitting or standing. Perhaps not moving
all day is the cause.

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Steve44
I bought an Aeron chair a few years ago and although it's fantastically
comfortable I feel a downside is sometimes I don't move for several hours if I
get engrossed in work. Once they are set up right I've not sat in any work
chair which comes close.

As I said, I'm not sure that's a good thing because of the length of time I
can sit. I do wiggle a bit but often don't even stand up. I was toying with
getting a sand timer or something similar to enforce getting up but not sure
how those interruptions would affect my workflow.

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vram22
Yes, I agree. See my other comment that is a sibling to yours.

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Danihan
TL;DR - We don't really know.

(but here's an observational study that says the more you sit around the
higher your troponin levels are, and those are bad, so try to walk around
more.)

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sdiupIGPWEfh
> so try to walk around more

Even though we just said it's probably not going to help.

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tabeth
I dunno if sitting is bad or not -- but ever since I got a fitted desk and put
a Deskcycle under it I've felt super great. It's a bit awkward always being a
little bit sweaty though (I put in ~50 miles a day).

[https://deskcycle.com/](https://deskcycle.com/)

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milofeynman
That picture at the top is such a hilariously bad photoshop. I can't imagine
anyone using this with a rolly chair on a wooden floor. The scratches!

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derda
FYI: There are special rolls for hardwood flooring, that dont scratch the
floor.

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gxs
Went to an orthopedic doc for an achy leg/back/knee.

Gave me the usual prescription: strengthen some core muscles, physical
therapy, anti inflammatory meds for a couple weeks, and should be good to go.

Also, however, he prescribed that I read the book Deskbound, by Kelly
Starrett.

Reading that book will definitely give you an incentive to not sit for long
periods of time.

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austinjp
Weasel words perhaps, but Kelly Starrett really divides physical therapist
communities. Some love him, some hate him. Personally I think he's often
"right for the wrong reasons". But if his approach gets you feeling better,
that's what's important.

Ditto workouts for "core muscles".

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irremediable
Is there any readable book that's "right for the right reasons"? I'm
interested in learning more.

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nickjj
I would say during the 16 hours I'm awake, it's mixed between standing with a
little bit of movement (75%), walking / running (10%) and sitting (15%). This
has been going on for about 2 years.

You can put together a custom standing desk for about $50 nowadays and a
$35ish chair is all you need to comfortably sit in an ergonomic way with your
standing desk when you want to take a break (no complicated adjustable desk
needed, just a standard 29" comfortable stool with a back).

I really like this set up and highly recommend it.

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tormeh
When I started my fisærst and current job I got back pains after 2 months. I
tried walking home every day, which helped, but that's not always possible in
winter. What really helped was working out with weight exercises during lunch.
No pain since then.

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yakt
i had back pain for 2 years... which sows up 2 to 4 times a month, i tried
many techniques, but with no great result.

But this one technique where you just lie down on the floor upside down fully
flat for 20 mins... my back pain just disappeared and never came back for last
6 months...

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leephillips
Seems closely connected with something I happened to submit recently:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15839654](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15839654)

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lerie82
Do you think the author was sitting down when he typed this?

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artur_makly
i noticed in the past 3 years that my ability to stand still > 1hr becomes
very very challenging. not sure if this is my age..but it truly was alarming.

so now i take it day by day and push myself a few min more each morning ( when
my hormones are the highest ) to stand more. i mix it up during the day when i
can..and use a fitball for sitting.

Let's all do more standing, drinking water, yoga, and eat more non-processed
foods in 2018!!

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S_A_P
This article comes as I worked sitting down for 16 hours yesterday to hit a
code deadline. I think Im going to get a standing desk ASAP...

~~~
amatecha
Yeh, start bugging your employer (assuming you work for one) to get those
awesome adjustable desks that can raise/lower to different heights. OK, they
are a bit pricy, but if enough people speak up about it that should make
things happen. Hopefully :)

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S_A_P
I’m a independent contractor and work from home. So yeah, my employer is aware
:) I definitely have this high on my list especially since I get the money
spent right back in tax relief.

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horsecaptin
"Not surprisingly, those men and women rarely exercised."

Perhaps a more controlled study is needed.

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anonytrary
Is it that sitting is bad, or that _not walking_ is bad? Is this clickbait?

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bb88
We need recess at work.

