

Can science determine the age of a Somali pirate? - tokenadult
http://www.slate.com/id/2216785/

======
rms
The USA is going to lock him and up in the tortuous federal supermax prison no
matter what age he is, international outrage be damned.

If Abduwali knew what he was in for he wouldn't have been smiling for the
cameras. I would take life in Somalia over ADX without hesitation.

~~~
mahmud
Offer them a lottery to live in American prisons and I can get you enough
Somali youth to fill the justice system up in a weekend.

The American tough guys I have seen are pampered Care Bears compared to the
Somali "Moryan"; they go for days without food, running on Qat, cigarettes and
methamphetamines. Completely irrational, for example, it's not unusual for a
moryan to attack you with a knife so he can take your gun.

~~~
rms
ADX is not your average American prison.

[http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/03/30/090330fa_fact_...](http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/03/30/090330fa_fact_gawande)

~~~
tokenadult
Very informative article, especially the international comparisons. Thanks.

------
mahmud
[Edit: that was a quick downvote; less than 30 seconds. Sorry to spoil it for
ya, this could have been another high-brow discussion about scientific
advances and what have you, but you can't solve all problems with science :-]

Why not solve this by, you know, asking for the community's help and not be
hell bent on hanging a teenager or sending him to life in prison? They would
never have been in this legal dilemma to begin with if they didn't insist on
keeping this wounded[1] broke ass dimwit, and been cowboys for, and the A-Team
of, Justice and the American Way(TM) in Somali waters.

I am a Somali and speak the language; the pirates agreed to release the
hostage if they were allowed to go home free. Guess who didn't wanna take
this? That's right, them boys with them fancy guns; the new Lockheed scopes
had to be tested. Fuckit, who cares if some Vermont dweeb takes a hit? we call
it a failed stand off and blame the Somalis. Fortunately, things turned out a
little easier and three pirates were killed. Mission accomplished? no. Someone
somewhere had to be the hero and hit two birds with one stone; 1) Prove that
no act of aggression against American interests goes unpunished, and 2) Show
that "even our enemies have rights" and we're a people of law and respect ....
WHAT? The fucker is a minor? and he boarded our ship under truce to negotiate
with us? Why are you telling me this after we agreed to a press-conference and
flown the fucker to JFK?

\-- [1] he was stabbed in the arm and the neck when he went on board for
negation.
[http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article61...](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article6115871.ece)

~~~
tokenadult
Piracy is a crime against the law of nations,

<http://cornellsun.com/node/37087>

and there doesn't seem to be any serious doubt that the four men who had guns
in the lifeboat of the Maersk Alabama had got into the lifeboat after
committing an act of piracy.

~~~
mahmud
This is established, but it doesn't help ONE bit in determining the age of the
captured pirate.

Here is how to find out his age: hand him over to the provisional unrecognized
government of that part of Somalia, it's called Puntland, and let THEM use
their local resources, find out who he is and who he went to school with.

If we handed Saddam Hussein to the provisional Iraqi government, and didn't
bother bringing him here, then why would we get our hands dirty with the trial
of some low-life criminal? I will tell you why, because someone in .gov
thought it was a good idea to project the new administration as a
transnational law-abiding citizen of the world, yet still capable of
delivering ass-whooping solutions where necessary. It goes hand in hand with
the Obama administration's image of itself as a Canada with a better military.
All the sensitive feel-good B.S. of the /other/ developed nations, plus all
the interventionist, gungho mentality of Bush Jr.'s

~~~
tokenadult
_Here is how to find out his age_

My first reply to you was to the issue of letting him go. The United States
authorities who captured the pirate have good legal authority to keep him in
their custody. But as to the issue of finding out his age, that is certainly
an issue that his defense lawyers will bring up at his trial. That is always
brought up if there is any doubt about a defendant's age. Any competent
witness who has information about his age is likely to be called at trial,
either by the defense or by the prosecution. If the provisional government of
Somalia is in good working order, the witnesses will be produced at the trial
and testify.

~~~
mahmud
"Any competent witness who has information about his age is likely to be
called at trial"

And provide an opportunity for the prosecuting government to indulge itself as
righteous and morally upright. This is cultural posturing at best, using one
hungry man to an advance an agenda and project a world-wide image.

There is no need to drag the issue any further; no American was harmed and no
American ship was robbed. He is no Eichmann, hunted down to face justice. And
he is no Hannibal, driven to Rome in shackles to face the imperial might he
had the audacity to challenge. He is a hungry man with a rusty AK who risked
his life in an unseaworthy vessel to take a shot at instant wealth, LA gang
style. But my feeling is that the government will ride this pony until it gets
what it wants, not just the global image improvement when he is slapped with
an easy 10 year sentence, but possibly an American base or an outpost in his
part of the world.

~~~
tokenadult
_no American was harmed_

Are you seriously saying that being confined on a lifeboat with four armed men
for days at sea is not any harm at all? In general, threatening people with
deadly weapons crosses the line into "violent crime," even if none of the
weapons are discharged.

And the ship was carrying RELIEF SUPPLIES for Somalia, which were delayed in
delivery to the pirates' compatriots.

~~~
mahmud
I hope no one in the state department thinks like you or we would end up with
a billion dollar budget to build air-conditioned American military bases in
Boosaaso to protect our interests, safe-guard passage of ships and do a little
nation building on the side.

If they keep him here that will only invite more "pirates", an easy visa to
the U.S. :-P (the guys you're trying to reason with are strung out on
methamphetamines; good luck winning _that_ debate.)

