
Ask HN: I was let go from a company again, I'm really depressed - grover_hartmann
I can&#x27;t keep gigs for more than a month, my longest has been 3 months in probationary trial.<p>I&#x27;m a programmer and I know I have problems with performance, clients have also complained about my performance.<p>This is depressing me a lot, my self-esteem is also affected. I don&#x27;t know what it is, am I just too slow?<p>I know I have issues with attention and concentration, but I&#x27;m not sure how to break out of this loop where I don&#x27;t last on a job.<p>Please help. :-(
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fpalmans
Hey,

Not sure if this is helpful. There are a couple of things which stand out in
your in message: '...I know I have problems... have also complained...' and 'I
know I have issues ...' To me, this reads as if you are you parroting what you
might have been told repeatedly. Whether or not the statements are factual is
irrelevant. What is important, is that you have embraced the language and are
defining yourself with it. Unless you are worshiped like a god, you are
usually better off using your own language to define yourself.

As a corollary, and possibly not applicable to you, this type of parroting can
illicit similar remarks from others, reinforcing this (maybe) incorrect
assessment. When someone keeps saying that they have, for example, a lack of
attention, people will start to zoom in that feature with laser focus and even
the slightest hint of drop in attention will affirm the idea which was placed
in their heads. Also, realize that you provide others with an 'easy out' if
they are uncomfortable discussing their real reasons for letting you go. Maybe
you just have a bo issue, which can be solved by switching cologne?

I am just saying that you should take some distance from this, regain your own
language/words/etc. and redefine yourself. I too can be outspoken and direct
when it comes to my failings, but I never phrase them as debilitating,
shameful, or even 'that big of deal.' By choosing the right words, by framing
things correctly, many flaws can be accepted.

------
panjaro
Accept the fact that you are not great at what you do and promise yourself
you'll work hard to be one ! Can you do that? I feel the same sometimes. I
started masters degree after more than 5 years in programming and after couple
of months I was just depressed. I just could not do anything. It was so much
heavy maths. As I write this, I'm looking at another assignment to submit. And
it's scary. but I accept the fact that I'm not good at it, but I'm going to be
one if I don't quit and keep working hard. People feel depressed because they
think they have to be good at it. You just need to say "Yes I'm not good, may
be I'm worst but I'm going to change that." Rather than thinking it over and
over again and wasting your time, start working towards it. And remember, it
takes time. Don't compare yourself to anyone.

------
zhte415
This is assuming you work in an organization and not freelance:

Before self doubt about self abilities and anyone questioning you on it (in
work, life, or in comments here).: I've met a huge amount of people that feel
they're not great at what they do, but are actually quite good.

How is your communication about what you're doing?

Do you communicate your tasks back to the person you report to? I mean
formally, in the form of a weekly email (preferably on Tuesday or Thursday, as
supervisors tend to be busy organizing their week on Mondays and fighting
fires on Fridays)?

A lot of managers don't know how to manage. "I'd really like him/her to do
this for me they may thing." "Do this, you're qualified" they may say. And
you're left "What the hell is this, OK, I'll try, I'm hopeful it will work..."
and then several days or weeks later you're in a situation where things don't
work. This may or may not be your case. It would probably be the case of a
reader.

Email your supervisor a schedule of everything you've done. Task ID,
description, request date, expected completion date, actual completion date,
and pain points you may be experiencing. Do it regularly.

You're helping them be a better coach. Which they may not know how to do. So
help you supervisor be a better supervisor.

If you do that and they don't provide 1-1 feedback face-to-face in a sit-down
private environment on at least a twice per month basis, then you're better
rid of them. They're bad managers.

~~~
grover_hartmann
I've been working remotely over the internet, on different timezones, with
different people from different countries. Not in a specific organization in
my country.

We were using Slack to communicate, and I was communicating on a daily basis
with the manager.

------
bobsgame
Run 3 miles every morning to improve your concentration problems and build
confidence. Please try this first.

~~~
panjaro
I agree ! Just get out for an hour or so every day and exercise. It just gives
you so much positive thoughts.

------
Osiris
Have you spoken with a psychiatrist regarding ways to address your
concentration problems?

Without medication, getting my brain to do what I want it to is like bushing a
bolder up a hill. With the proper medication, I gain a lot of control over my
concentration.

~~~
grover_hartmann
No, I never spoke with a psychiatrist.

~~~
cpncrunch
Have you always had this issue, or only recently? Being burned out or
overstressed can cause these symptoms.

~~~
grover_hartmann
I could get work done, don't get me wrong, it's just that it does takes me
more time to complete than other developers.

Sometimes I could do them faster than others. It depends.

I also believe my problem could be discipline.

I usually work during the night, sometimes in the morning. I choose the night
because it's less distraction, but then I distract myself with reddit or IRC,
and I get little done.

I remember having some learning difficulties when I was at school, not sure if
that was related to attention problems, and I had to go to a special school
for that.

These days I don't have much problem with learning, but with
attention/productivity.

~~~
geoelectric
I have to compensate for ADHD, which may or may not be your issue, but it
sounds similar.

Few things:

1) Sleep on a regular schedule. Set a "go to bed" alarm. Stick to it. Makes a
huge difference.

2) Exercise, even if just taking brisk walks. It directly affects
concentration/attention for the rest of your day. That's fairly well-supported
by studies/literature.

3) Eat right. Be careful about caffeine and sugar, as the crashes will
probably hit you harder than most.

4) In general, _get on a schedule_. Rhythm is the key.

As far as productivity:

1) Underpromise, overdeliver. This is hugely important. If you know you're not
as efficient as you want to be you have to stop telling people what they want
to hear and start telling them something more accurate. Even if you were
ideal, we usually underestimate software tasks.

2) Look into Pomodoro or some other interval work rhythm method. It makes it
OK to take breaks by regimenting them some.

3) Use a Todo list. Try to get one impactful thing (or chunk of thing) done
each day at a minimum. Look up "Big Rocks" or "Zen to Done" on Google for some
good tips there.

3) Find a coach. There are ADHD and productivity coaches out there that
specialize in this stuff.

4) If you can't find a coach, at least find a mentor.

5) Go talk to a doctor. You sound like you have issues to actually address. If
yours are like mine, meds help. You probably also need to learn some good
habits though--there's no magic solution.

You also need to work on making yourself happier and regaining your own trust
back. You're way too down on yourself, and you've actually written yourself
off as inherently problematic. Objectivity is good, but it can also be how you
get defeated before you start.

You actually sound like I did when I didn't feel like I could even be
accountable to myself. Your first challenge is to get a grip on how you work
and make yourself OK with it while you get better. Everyone's different, and
the important thing is to accommodate yourself effectively, not to be perfect.
But first, start making yourself happy. One accomplishment a day is a good
step towards that.

Last thing:

I listed a lot of stuff. Don't try to do it all at once. You'll flop hard. But
start working towards it.

Since you're having work issues in particular, I'd look at sleep, Todo lists,
and Pomodoro as some of the first things you try.

~~~
grover_hartmann
"Be careful about caffeine and sugar, as the crashes will probably hit you
harder than most"

What do you mean with this exactly?

~~~
geoelectric
Sorry for the late reply.

I mean that caffeine and sugar both have an energy upswing and an energy
downswing associated with them. If you're already having issues with
motivation, maybe even with lethargy, the downswing will potentially take you
from minimally functional to useless. Any sleep or nutrition problems will
also exaggerate this effect.

------
10dpd
Without (a) having worked alongside you or (b) seen the work you produce, it's
impossible for anyone here to give accurate advice.

For (a) I would advise asking previous employers (both the manager who made
the decision to let you go and former work colleges) for honest feedback. It's
difficult to give honest negative feedback, so be clear that you are asking
because you are genuinely interested in self-improvement.

For (b), just thinking aloud here, do you have a github repository where you
can show us your work? There may be fundamental issues with style, logic etc
that could be addressed through training.

------
tixocloud
Hi,

When you say that you have problems with performance, was there any specific
concrete examples that you can share?

For what it's worth, everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses. The fact
that you can program relates to a great skill that you have. There are
millions of people who can't do it. Don't take it too personally - you can
definitely overcome any "problems" you have.

------
nudpiedo
Learn to work as a "workhorse": find your tempo and don't try to get faster,
just commit regularly to your boss/customer; and do not compare to others
until the end of the year.

You will be more appreciated than a "race horse" in a few years from now and
you will find your working place easily in any large corporation sooner than
you think.

------
Red_Tarsius
Would you mind to share more details? So far, there could be many reasons
behind what happened.

~~~
grover_hartmann
What details would you like to know?

~~~
fprotthetarball
\- Do you get along with your coworkers?

\- Where are your shortcomings?

\- Can you actually program?

\- Are you misunderstanding requirements?

~~~
grover_hartmann
\- There are times I get along with my coworkers, which happens to be most of
the time, there are times I don't.

\- I don't know, I feel performance tends to be one of my problems, especially
when working under pressure and being stressed / burned.

I hate working under pressure, and when clients have unrealistic expectations.
I don't mind deadlines if they are realistic.

\- Yes, but I tend to get stuck a lot, I try to solve problems and most of the
time I can solve them, but it takes time, and what frustrates me the most is
when clients don't understand that writing code takes time, and they insist,
several times per day... with emails: "How it's going?" and so on, then they
might get rude, etc.

This is what frustrates me the most, unfortunately many managers and clients
don't understand that writing code is hard work and when I'm taking more than
a week on a task they fire me.

\- No, if I misunderstand something I speak immediately.

~~~
caruizdiaz
It looks like you are victimizing yourself more than you should.

I was fired from my first serious job, and I felt terrible, but I realized it
was my fault and I worked my ass off to eliminate (or lessen) the weaknesses I
know (note the tense) I have.

"Hard work beats talent". Discipline is what makes you great, so work towards
getting it.

------
mikelyons
Do you do the work?

~~~
grover_hartmann
Most of the time I get the work done, yes. But there are other times where the
client doesn't have realistic goals, like the last project I've been to, they
just say something like this:

"We need to ship this on Monday May 11th, so we need you to aggressively plug
away on this. You still need to do X and Y. I'm going to put something
together with info on how to prioritize the work."

And this after 2 weeks of hiring me, then they say nothing and fire me,
without a word, while I'm getting the work done.

~~~
cpncrunch
Perhaps it's just the companies you're working for. All the companies I worked
for were pretty relaxed about schedules and I always ended up getting stuff
finished way ahead of time.

If you're working too long hours and getting stressed out about it, it's
perfectly normal to have attention and concentration problems. Perhaps you
just need to relax a bit more, take breaks, and you might find you get more
done. Also don't work for dipshit companies that put too much pressure on you!

------
glimps9
> I also believe my problem could be discipline. > I usually work during the
> night, sometimes in the morning. I choose the night because it's less
> distraction, but then I distract myself with reddit or IRC, and I get little
> done.

You're right - discipline is a challenge for you. It's a challenge for
everyone, but you're the person of concern here.

Work on your discipline habits. This is different for each person. Try lots of
things. Keep trying.

As you've described, your current career is a struggle. Many short-term gigs,
constant pressure, almost no social capital, and (I pessimistically assume)
low pay.

And regular criticism, either direct or indirect.

That sucks! And it's not likely to improve. You're in the midst of a market
that runs on people meat. Like a sweatshop, except your mind instead of your
body is being exploited.

It's better than a physical sweatshop, but it still sucks. The key thing to
remember is that you're participating in a market which places little value on
humans. It's easy to absorb that attitude, and devalue yourself.

If you stay in this career, the likely outcomes are:

\- burnout

\- depression

\- resilience

\- aggression

(This is all personal experience & opinion, BTW. It might not match reality.)

In order to survive, and even succeed, you need to minimize your burnout and
depression, and cultivate your resilience & aggression.

Aggression doesn't mean rage - it means hunger. It means viewing every single
interaction as fuel.

You've shown you can write decently (many people can't speel sipmle word).

For example, this communication:

 _Given the urgency of the project, and the communication problems, I don 't
think this is a good first Company project for you. I removed you from the
project. So I can make sure you're put in a better position, what's the ideal
project for you?_

looks like a solid opportunity. You might reply:

 _" Thanks for taking this action, and for the frank communication. I
understand the tight schedule and I appreciate your help in matching my
abilities with your needs. You asked what the ideal project is, and we both
know projects are never ideal._

 _For me to bring maximum value, I need time. You 're probably familiar with
the good/cheap/fast triangle. I work in the 'good' corner._

 _Thanks again for your time. I 'll be happy to talk further at your
convenience."_

I bet you can write it even better. (hint: shorter = better)

The fact is, in the cheap-gig market, you'll get to write this response dozens
of times. You'll have plenty of chances to practice, until you're either a
iron-hard pro, or a mentally destroyed basket case!

(or some strange hybrid of those two things)

Hope this helps.

------
ThrustVectoring
If I was a sociopath or narcissist who wanted to hire people to bully into
working sixty-hour weeks, I'd hire you based on how you're talking alone. This
might be your problem if you insist on a work-life balance, or have more
backbone and resolve than my first impression suggests.

I'd insist on finding a place that has good mentoring. That'd be my primary
job-search criteria in your shoes.

------
Kooontz
Keep looking until you find a job where you fit in.

Would you hire yourself?

A lot of programming groups at companies are very picky about your personality
type, so don't blame yourself by default.

Address each complaint with a goal or action to resolve or prevent it.

------
anon3_
Persevere.

[http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?no=1&l=Yijing](http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?no=1&l=Yijing)

