
Oslo made its city center basically car-free - prostoalex
https://www.fastcompany.com/90294948/what-happened-when-oslo-decided-to-make-its-downtown-basically-car-free
======
themagician
I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost,
the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space
wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to
society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough
to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a
mile. We are slaves to the automobile in so many ways.

I’d love to see a major metro area in the US do this. San Francisco would
actually be a decent candidate for this. Market St + 4 blocks in each
direction.

Cities existed before without cars and I suspect they will exist again after
they leave. Sucks that I had to live in the time period with them.

Life is more than just figuring out how quickly and cheaply you can go from
one place to another. I feel like a lot of you are missing that.

~~~
danjayh
I'm amazed that so many people who consider themselves inclusive in their
thoughts don't realize how exclusionary anti-automobile policies are. As
someone who suffers from mild arthritis, the trip to the back of a Wal-Mart
can be painful for me, and a walk or bike ride across a city block absolutely
foreboding. On the bad days, even standing in line at a checkout for an
extended period of time can send my knees and hips into a painful state (and
the thought of riding across town standing on a scooter, frankly, horrifies
me).

Cars and the point-to-point transit that they offer are a GODSEND for me and
many other people who are somewhat mobility restricted, but not so bad that we
need wheelchairs or crutches. They enable me to live a very normal life that
would be impossible in a heavily pedestrian optimized environment. The fact
that you don't even consider some of the alternatives as viable - automated
shared cars, electric cars, strong hybrids ... all of which solve the problems
you identified (wasted space on parking, pollution, etc.) leads me to believe
that you actually just hate cars, and not any of the (solvable) problems that
are caused by their current embodiment.

Consider that everyone's circumstances are not the same as yours. Have some
compassion for your fellow humans.

EDIT:

To those who are saying that we'll still allow those with disabilities to have
cars: many states require that you be able to walk less then 200 feet to get a
disabled plate. On most days, I can walk at least 500 ... so by almost all
standards, I do not qualify. However, walking 5-600 feet doesn't get you far
enough to survive without a car. If the world were to go this route, we would
have to reconsider what constitutes 'disabled'.

Another thought that surfaces is that with my 36-37" inseam (I wear 36" pants
because that's as big as they sell, but they're really still too short), I do
not fit in most public transit, and most cars. Thankfully, because cars are
privately owned, I can pick from the 2 or 3 models that I actually fit in. A
public transit world is a world that marginalizes peoples who are in the last
5-10% in terms of height/weight.

~~~
gamegoblin
I broke my foot and ankle in several places in a rock climbing accident 1.5
years ago, and was put in a similar place to you (unable to stand for more
than 20 minutes, unable to walk more than a few hundred yards, etc). This was
a huge lifestyle impact to me -- before the injury, if it was less than a 30
minute walk, I almost always walked. If I wasn't in a hurry, up to 60 minutes.

What helped me a lot was getting an e-bike that I'm able to cruise around town
at 20mph (32kph) in. I understand that this particular solution doesn't apply
to you, since arthritis is triggered by joint movement, whereas my pain is
triggered by impact on the damaged foot and ankle (and e-biking is low
impact).

But this experience got me thinking a lot about small electric vehicles.

One could imagine a city center where most people walk or bike, and people
with a medical permit could drive around in speed-limited, electric golf
carts, which are fairly compatible with pedestrian-only areas. Perhaps the
city itself would staff the golf carts with drivers who were summonable via
app.

So people like us could drive to a parking garage on the outskirts of the city
center, and then there would either be rentable golf carts at the garage, or
golf carts able to be summoned to go into the city center.

~~~
improbable22
Similar experience: I broke my leg, while I happened to be living both with a
car, and in a building with underground parking.

This really made staying independent possible, for the months it took before I
could walk properly. Sure it was slower to drive to the supermarket & park
underground there, instead of walking... but much quicker than waiting for
someone else to have time to help.

I agree that solutions other than a traditional car would be possible. But
right now, thinking through other places I've lived fine without a car, they
would all have been hell.

~~~
danjayh
I was in Shanghai for work for about 3 weeks a few years back. For the first
week, I tried to use mass transit, because everyone said it was the best way
around (and in shanghai, their mass transit is absolutely world-class, the
best of the best). It was absolute hell - a perfect description; I was in
constant pain.

After the first week I broke down and just took cabs everywhere. Perfectly
practical, but only when somebody else (in this case, my employer) is paying
for it.

~~~
improbable22
I can well imagine! Good on you for going all the same.

In defence of the transit, it has to be said that (in a city that size) those
cabs could not work without it. The roads are only passable because 90% of
people aren't on them.

Which is to say, the fares have to be out of reach (as a daily expense) for >
90% of people. I imagine most employers would balk at the cost of catching
cabs everywhere in Oslo.

------
svendbt
I live in Oslo. Calling it car-free is a stretch.

The city council have done a great deal of improvements - increased frequency
of public transport, city bikes, most parking spaces in the inner city are
removed (still plenty of private parking garages), paid roadside parking per
hour in outer city districts (only residents can park long term) and a $5-$8
toll road around the city. They have also opened up the seaside to the public
- you can walk along the sea for from one side of town to the other for hours.

This has definitely made for a much more lively city, but it comes with a
hidden cost that is not so easily visible - gentrification.

The lively city with its hundreds of new bars and restaurants are attracting
young, educated people, while the difficulties of owning a car drives away the
families that need their car to visit their grandparents, go to IKEA, drive to
kindergarten on the other side of town etc. Sure, it's possible to use public
transport, but everyone who has has small kids know that you do not want to
spend an hour to get home with hungry kids.

We (family with two small kids) moved 5 miles out and get the best of both
worlds instead. I would never live downtown though.

~~~
hmottestad
I live in Oslo too. And I work in the center.

This article is a HUGE lie. Our city center not car free, not even almost.

I don't think Oslo is any more car free than it was 10 years ago. And roads
that are made car free don't become traffic free. We still allow busses,
trams, lorries and taxis on all the recently made "car-free" roads.

Oslo is about as car free as any other decent european city.

------
Kjeldahl
What the PR piece doesn't show is that during winter (4-6 months a year), very
few ride bicycles around. In winter most people don't stay outside a lot, the
weather is harsh (people do ski, but not inside the cities). They have
installed play and outside work areas, which are mostly empty during winter,
and require maintenance to get them in shape again for the next summer. A lot
of shops are moving or closing down. Young people sporting bicycles in summer
surely looks good. It doesn't look quite as good with 5-6 shopping bags with
groceries for the kids. It's an interesting experiment for sure. Hopefully the
single kids have enough money to keep the city thriving, because families are
moving out to be able to have a car. Parents in Norway also spend a lot of
time caring for their children, which includes driving them around to various
activities. Most people who say raising kids in Norway without a car if fine
usually haven't had any kids yet.

~~~
calcifer
> It doesn't look quite as good with 5-6 shopping bags with groceries for the
> kids.

Here in the Netherlands people seem to have no problems doing exactly that on
a bike. Is Oslo any significantly different than, say, Amsterdam? Last week we
had all sorts of harsh whether (sub-zero temps, heavy rain, snow) during my
morning commute, which didn't seem to affect bike traffic one bit.

> Parents in Norway also spend a lot of time caring for their children

The subtext being if you are against cars you are a bad parent?

> which includes driving them around to various activities

No, parenting includes _taking_ them to places, not driving.

~~~
avar
I also live in Amsterdam, and while I bike to work every day my wife isn't as
confident in the snow and when it snowed this past week took the tram.

On that day two full trams passed her stop before she was able to get on one.
Something that otherwise _never_ happens in the city.

So I think you've got a very different impression of how Amsterdammers stop
cycling when there's a bit of snow. My own impression is that there's at least
a 10x difference in the number of cyclists the day after some snow at rush
hour compared to the same time of day on a weekday in the summer months when
you can bike to work in a T-shirt.

Also, as someone from further up north than Oslo you may not be appreciating
the logistical difference in cycling in the sort of snow they get up there
v.s. what you get in Amsterdam. Most of the time when it snows in Amsterdam
you've got 2-3 cm at most, no icing, and major cycle paths clear up down to
the asphalt on at least the center-line by 8:30 at the latest.

None of which means you need a car. I cycled to work year round to work when I
lived in Iceland, but it's definitely a very different challenge. You need
studded tires, a mountain bike etc.

~~~
m-s
Semi-related: Because of a defective transformer some tram services had their
frequency reduced in the morning. [1] This has been going on for the entire
week and might explain why your wife couldn't get her tram.

[1]
[https://twitter.com/GVBnieuws/status/1087946558677635073](https://twitter.com/GVBnieuws/status/1087946558677635073)

------
dr_dshiv
I moved from Snap Diego to Amsterdam last year and loved giving up cars. We
don't own or use cars anymore. I've got three kids. They bike to school, to
piano lessons, etc. If it is raining, I give them rain pants. They love the
freedom, I love the freedom from schlepping. I commute to work by bike then
train then bike and back again. It is beautiful -- and no more traffic. I get
exercise built into my day. Sucks about the rain pants.

My problem with America: low expectations. No one thinks the vision is
possible. Too bad, so sad.

------
mschuetz
Vienna also turned one of its biggest shopping streets into a mostly
pedestrian zone a few years ago. The results are great, the only issue is that
two thirds of it are shared spaces where cars are still allowed to drive,
albeit witout priority over pedestrians. Mostly because some parties
vehemently fought against pedestrian areas, claiming businesses will lose
customers and shops will have to close. Turns out, there are more people than
ever and at times it's so crowded that you can't even get through on your
bike. Simply because it's a nice space now where people can enjoy shopping,
food and going for a walk without constant car noise and smell. It's great.

* [https://www.wien.gv.at/verkehr/strassen/images/mariahilferst...](https://www.wien.gv.at/verkehr/strassen/images/mariahilferstrasse-fuzo-gr.jpg)

Also, large parts of the inner city district are exclusively pedestrian areas
and it makes these areas so much more enjoyable:

* [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Wien_01_...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Wien_01_Stephansplatz_a.jpg)

Compared to when it was still a car street up until 1977:

* [https://images.derstandard.at/img/2014/02/20/1392699545647-s...](https://images.derstandard.at/img/2014/02/20/1392699545647-stephansplatz.jpg?s=90cfd14d)

* [https://images.derstandard.at/img/2013/08/12/1375652399990-U...](https://images.derstandard.at/img/2013/08/12/1375652399990-Unbenannt-2.jpg?s=c648175e)

~~~
close04
Keep in mind that some infrastructure has to stay in place to allow for things
like supply vehicles or emergency services.

The "losing business because you can't park right in front of it" is BS in
most big western European city centers where you either go to a paid parking
or to a spot on the street 10-15 minutes away from your intended destination
sometimes.

~~~
mschuetz
> Keep in mind that some infrastructure has to stay in place to allow for
> things like supply vehicles or emergency services.

There are designated time slots for suply vehicles in the core pedestrian
zone, and the pedestrian friendly streets support these without issue. The two
outer zones are the shared spaces where cars may drive at any time, which is a
mistake in my opinion. Should be the same as the center. Pedestrian only,
except for designated time slots for supply vehicles.

> The "losing business because you can't park right in front of it" is BS in
> most big western European city centers where you either go to a paid parking
> or to a spot on the street 10-15 minutes away from your intended destination
> sometimes.

Yes, that argument appeared often and it never made sense because there never
was any available parking space before, except for nearby parking houses that
are still available. So pretty much nothing changed, except that some
neighbours lost a few parking spaces.

------
renholder
>...as in other cities that have converted some streets to pedestrian-only
areas...

These "pedestrian-only" zones certainly aren't unique to Oslo. See
Drottninggatan[0] in Stockholm, Grafton[1] in Dublin, Strøget[2] in Köpenhamn
(Copenhagen), Kärntner Strasse[3] in Vienna, ad infinitum...

I'm nonplussed that this is in any way news-worthy; however, it seems to be an
American website, so maybe that's why?

[0] -
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Drottnin...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Drottninggatan_sommaren_2006.jpg)

[1] -
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Grafton_...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Grafton_St%2C_Dublin.jpg)

[2] -
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/Str%C3%B...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/Str%C3%B8get%2C_Copenhagen.jpg)

[3] -
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/K%C3%A4r...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/K%C3%A4rtner_Stra%C3%9Fe%2C_Ecke_Walfischgasse.JPG)

~~~
karmelapple
Isn’t part of the interest here that Oslo made a shift, rather than always
having had it this way?

This is starting to catch hold in cities of all sizes in the USA, too. Usually
a couple roads in an already somewhat-popular commercial district will be shut
down, either certain days or all the time, and many cities are seeing
noticeable impacts on economic activity.

~~~
sampo
> Isn’t part of the interest here that Oslo made a shift, rather than always
> having had it this way?

Copenhagen made the shift in 1962.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Str%C3%B8get](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Str%C3%B8get)

Interestingly, many local merchants opposed the shift in fear of losing
customers. But then soon saw how the pedestrianized street started to boast
more shoppers to their stores.

------
hjnilsson
Oslo is still heavily lacking in bike accessibility, more so than the article
presents.

New bike paths are around the periphery of the center. In the city center,
there are close to zero bike parking spots. Everyone who wants to take the
bike to work, must have parking in the workplace. In addition the tram tracks
on many streets are a hazard to taking the bike. But things are improving here
slowly

Public transport though is probably the best in the world per capita, with
subway, buses or trams going every couple of minutes. So this compensates (as
the article states). Overall the reduction of cars is a great improvement
overall.

~~~
vinay427
> Public transport though is probably the best in the world per capita, with
> subway, buses or trams going every couple of minutes.

I believe Zürich would like to have a word. Not that this is a competition,
but it's an even smaller city (by population) with incredibly extensive public
transport that's well-known for its punctuality.

It really is quite easy living without a car when you have a multiple
reasonable options in any of these cities with well-developed public
transport.

~~~
masklinn
> I believe Zürich would like to have a word. Not that this is a competition

I don't know, public transport accessibility, frequency and quality is finally
a competition I could get behind.

------
samstave
I seriously think that San Francisco can benefit from this.

Each zone in SF is actually very small - and very walkable.

In my extreme SF transport utopia - SF would only allow pedestrians, bikes,
and electric muni transport in certain regions of the city.

~~~
squidbot
The biggest issue with bikes and walking in SF (as well as Seattle) is the
hills. Oslo is relatively flat, as are other very bike centered cities like
Amsterdam. Mind you, the rise of electric bikes is helping a lot, but it seems
like hilly cities would only be able to get rid of cars if they replaced them
with better, efficient, clean public transit. And it doesn't have to be just
buses. Seattle, where they exist, escalators are very helpful. Maybe trams?
I'm not a public trans expert by any means though. But as a guy who's not
getting any younger, I definitely start to appreciate a hill escalator
(there's a couple here in Seattle, some public, some parts of buildings) when
my knees are hurting.

~~~
samstave
Calling utter bullshot on this post as i have literally been a bike/pedestrian
in SF for now going on a decade exclusively.

In working in tech and knowing the city inside and out. This is flatly not an
issue.

Further, i used to live upper market at twin peaks - and taking the bus was
not a problem other that the normal muni issues whoch this discussion is not
about.

Ive biked and walked and commuted literally every area in sf. Lived twin
peaks, presidio, biked and commuted all of down town marina etc.

Hills is a literal non issue.

~~~
freyir
I guess you don't live in Russian Hill, Nob Hill, Pac Heights, etc. And even
if you, personally, are able to bike up those hills, the vast majority of
residents would have a very tough time.

Plenty of SF is bikeable, but to say hills are a non-issue citywide is
ridiculous.

~~~
samstave
Are you literally focusing on that population of residents?

Name a freaking company who's office is in ANY of those locations who's
employee population we are talking about.

What's ridiculous is you sound like a person who thinks their millenial
perspective is the only thing that matters.

Let me leave you with a litteral quote from my interview at twitter in 2008:

" So tell me how you will do things differently because most people I
interview came from facebook as their first job out of college and think that
their way is the only way to do anything"

Yeah - you sound like those people. Moronic to think that we are worried about
"commuting to russian hill" jeasus.

------
erkken
Fantastic. I also believe we are slaves to the cars, in such a way that we
have become blind to the fact how they destroy our societies and people.

Most people are so used to the cars that they find it hard we would be happier
without them, like my dad who grown up in the 50's with the mindset that every
man should have a car. Not to mention all the developing countries with a
middle class who see it as a step towards happiness (can't blame them though).

The car ia a great invention, and I love to drive them. Our family does not
own a car, but rather a few bikes including a cargo bike which we use to do
the shopping including Ikea visits.

It makes me cry a bit of happiness every time I read about this kind of
initiatives.

------
hkon
What's interesting is that almost all traffic in eastern Norway goes through
the city. Instead of having the highways go around it, they go through it. So
while the city center is "car free", there is still alot of traffic and
pollution.

~~~
jononor
The highway from from east to west straight though Oslo center is underground
since som years now. If you ever go to the Oslo Opera, the highway is below
you somewhere.

To call Oslo car free is an oversimplification, but the efforts and results
over the last 15 years are tremendous.

~~~
dbdjfjrjvebd
It comes above ground quite close to the city center. There is plenty of
pollution from the motorway by Frognerstrand and the massive road junction by
Gamlebyen.

------
mises
I keep running into this assumption that everybody loves somewhere with a
pleasant climate. Or at least somewhere cool. In summer, many Southern cities
are extremely hot and humid; you couldn't pay most people enough to walk or
bike. We like our AC, thank you very much. Maybe better public transit would
help, but we don't even like walking the last mile.

It's a good plan, but this is the "San Francisco Bubble": assuming what works
for you works for everyone else. Another good example is electric scooters.

Many people live in situations where, if they walked or biked, even for the
last mile, they would have to shower literally every time they moved a mile or
more. I also read a very astute comment pointing out that biking is not good
for hauling kids, moving groceries, etc. The best solution for kids is
probably a stroller, whic means now you have to walk rather than bike.

Lastly, speed. Outside of peak traffic, no comparison. I lived in Houston for
a while; it could take an hour and a half to drive from one end of the city to
the other in usual traffic. Walking or biking, it would probably be something
like six and twelve, respectively. Only one city has been truly constrained;
NYC. You can't just make everybody move into a little urban core and expect
they won't leave. Can't fit that many people.

For reference, Oslo has population 600k. Greater Houston Area is estimated to
top 10m by 2040.

------
jannikarndt
It is interesting how the “vice mayor of urban development” only talks about
getting rid of “private cars”.

While train, bus and bike can get your quite far, in large enough cities it
will still be a challenge to get to and from many places. Not in the city
center, but in the outer areas where people commute to and from.

I live in Hamburg (Germany) where we have a subway, S-Bahn (similar) and a
quite good bus network. Still, three big car sharing companies are
successfully operating: Car2Go (by Daimler), DriveNow (by BMW) and Miles
(private startup). They _do_ fill a need.

Another experiment will be started in April by the company I work for, MOIA
(by VW): They provide ride sharing with a completely electric van (based on
the VW Crafter) with 6 seats and permanently employed drivers. The focus is on
the commuters who don't have a train-/subway-station nearby.

I think there are two lessons here: Just removing all cars will probably not
work, we need at least intermediate solutions to slowly move people from
owning a private car to shared solutions. And second, many of these mobility
on demand/mobility as a service-solutions would be very hard to pull off
without mobile phones and uniquitous mobile internet access.

------
hartbeatnt
This is my dream for downtown LA. Never gonna happen, but a man can dream

~~~
nkantar
I'm an avid driver who lives in LA (Westside), and this sounds pretty great,
honestly. Driving in and through DTLA is a total nightmare, and public transit
has a hard time covering enough of the relatively large area.

I love being able to take the Expo Line to LA Live, especially for the LA Auto
Show (amusingly enough), and would welcome more of that.

------
phillywalsh
Until living in city centers becomes more affordable, restricting vehicle use
only creates problems.

Sure restricting vehicles is nice for people who live in the city, but people
who can't afford to live in the city depend on personal vehicles to get
around.

Public transportation doesn't solve it either, it creates a distinct
inequality in mobility. Where those in the city can access things whenever
they please by walking or bike, those who would depend on public
transportation are at the mercy of the transportation system.

What the vehicle does is provides those outside the city equal freedom and
flexibility as those inside who can walk or ride a bike to their destination.

------
vages
I live in Oslo. This article is exaggerating how far this process has come as
much as its pictures exaggerate the amount of sun. Come summer and they'll
both be around, but for now there's plenty of cars.

------
tallanvor
This article is complete bullshit.

Yes, there are some streets that are mostly free of cars during the day, but
the surrounding streets are as busy as ever. Reducing parking spots and
increasing bike lanes has not made a noticeable difference in the number of
cars on the road, at least from a pedestrian standpoint.

I would love to see fewer cars in Olso, especially during days like today when
they lowered the speed limit due to the weather causing increased pollution,
but even with everything the current government has tried, it isn't making a
real difference.

------
nonbel
Prediction:

Once the initial excitement/novelty wears off people from the surrounding
suburbs/communities will find it more difficult to shop/visit/etc in the city
and revenues will drop.

As a result, businesses will move to the outskirts so they can make more
money, making living in the city more difficult (and thus less attractive). So
people will move outwards as well.

This will leave the city center either desolated or turned into some sort of
historical site or park.

------
Tade0
_It focused on Ring 1, the innermost ring road of Oslo’s three motorways, a
1.7km sq area that is home to around 1,000 people of whom 88.1% do not own a
car._

1.7km sq is... not a lot really?

I measured the distance between the NW and SE ends of the zone and it's 1650m
- or about a mile. That's a 25min walk at a leisurely pace.

------
biswaroop
More information from 2017 about the fight to remove cars in Oslo:
[https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jun/13/oslo-ban-
cars...](https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jun/13/oslo-ban-cars-
backlash-parking)

It's interesting to see the political pushback from conservatives. Still,
removing parking seems like a good way to get rid of cars (especially that
large fraction of traffic that circles around cities searching for parking).

------
elamje
Would it be possible to build public transit, i.e. light rail and regular
train, on top of concrete? This could leverage the current state of American
infrastructure, and eliminate the need to demolish road, to replace with rail
lines.

------
lazyjones
This affects a whopping 1.9 out of 454 square kilometers. So don‘t imagine a
car-less capital city in Europe. The effect on pollution and noise will be
very small, unless you live in or visit the city centre.

------
siliconunit
I would be very careful about outsourcing our basic civil right to move around
freely. Very careful, extremely careful. I live in Europe and I fully
appreciate cheap public transport and decongested city centers, but I
appreciate more a going fully electric revolution, and still keep my EV and
drive wherever I please at any time.. I would not trust any government with
the power to own my means of transportation fully,ever. We are living in an
era of infantilisation of the society, where we close our eyes to any risk or
danger and give up our basic freedoms for a fear of responsibility, this could
have catastrophic consequences if the 'wrong' type of ruling class gets into
power.

------
fabianhjr
Just as a general reference on how to design carfree cities, check out this
site: [http://carfree.com/](http://carfree.com/)

------
avar
We need to end socialism for cars, but I think this way of going about it is
probably counterproductive.

Here in Amsterdam we also have an increase in car-free zones, but one effect
of that is just to increase car parking pressure in the neighborhoods of those
of us who live adjacent to the center.

I think the real solution is to end socialism for cars. This problem will
solve itself as soon as the land being used by parking spaces isn't
specifically zoned, and thus would need to compete price-wise with using the
same amount of land for residential developments or shops.

It's also interesting to see how this breaks down as a political issue. E.g.
in Amsterdam the generally free market party (VVD) has a notable break from
their "their market will take care of it" policy of wanting _more_ government-
subsidized car parking, v.s. the leftist parties.

~~~
jpmoyn
I highly doubt throwing this issue at the free market will result in less car
traffic in the city.

~~~
avar
Why not? E.g. now the market price for where I live is to a first
approximation something like 2000 EUR/month for an apartment on a single floor
in a 4 floor house.

Meanwhile I can simply apply for a parking space right outside my place, and
only need to pay something like a 250 EUR/yr road tax (depending on vehicle &
weight etc.). That's a flat fee for the entirety of Nord-Holland (my "state"),
I'd pay nothing for parking other than needing to apply.

Assuming a parking space is 6x3m = 18m^2 then 4x of those add up to 72m^2, a
typical size for an apartment around here.

So if someone parking a car in a 18m^2 parking space had to compete with the
market for real estate they'd need to pay 2000 EUR/month for parking their
car, because we could otherwise build housing there.

That's before you even get to the problem that the fact that you can only
build up to 4 floors around here is _also_ an artificial government restraint,
so the true market price of a 18m^2 parking spot is way more than 2000
EUR/month in the center of Amsterdam.

There's no reason to ban cars. You just need to make them pay a fair price for
the land they're using and the problem will take care of itself.

------
dboreham
If you have an infinite amount of money (from Oil), burying your freeways is a
great idea. Google maps gets confused in those tunnels though, at least it did
for me.

------
hmottestad
"Hahahahahahahahahaha.

The city center in Oslo is not even close to being car free."

\- someone who works in the center and has to cross multiple roads with cars
to get to the office

------
rconti
Sweet; headed to Norway and Sweden this summer, I'll definitely make it a
point to visit Oslo then. (Although I was probably going to anyway).

------
Tiktaalik
A much easier way to reduce pedestrian traffic fatalities than inventing a
perfect automatic driver.

------
geff82
The problem is really not cars, but (if any) the way they have to be built.
You could easily fit 4 people in a 400kilo vehicle on 2,5m length and move
them safely at speeds of up to 100km/h. But crash regulations are so strict
and the buildable types of cars so restricted that we all have to have the
heavy, expensive, has driven cars that we now have.

------
dbdjfjrjvebd
Meanwhile in the real world outside of this PR piece most journeys in Oslo are
still by car, the air pollution continues to be terrible and the local
government is deeply unpopular. Property prices in the center are lower than
around the ring road as people with families are forced to move out of the
center.

------
yhoiseth
While I really like the changes, this article reads like a PR piece from Urban
Sharing and/or the city government.

~~~
dbdjfjrjvebd
The city government is deeply unpopular. Largely because of these changes.

------
mort96
We did? TIL.

------
funkythings
I do not like Oslos city center. Everything seems so over-engineered and non-
organic

------
pibefision
Madrid is doing the same.

~~~
macintux
The article concludes with that.

------
gt40
Maybe I missed something but how do old people get around?

~~~
smileysteve
Old people are often capable of walking as well. Or taking transit. It's in
best interests to encourage the elderly to stay fit and capable.

A better question is how do disabled people get around, and how do we prevent
people from becoming disabled.

Obesity and lack of activity often cause disabilities more than age.

~~~
notatoad
>A better question is how do disabled people get around

according to the oslo public transit website, all buses are wheelchair
accessible, and all except three tram lines are wheelchair accessible.

[https://www.visitoslo.com/en/oslo/practical-
information/acce...](https://www.visitoslo.com/en/oslo/practical-
information/accessibility/)

------
kstenerud
Huh. I didn't realize Oslo hadn't done this yet. All (or most) European City
centers are car free.

~~~
chrisseaton
> All (or most) European City centers are car free.

I don't know how someone can say something so obviously and demonstrably false
with a straight face.

~~~
kstenerud
Easy. I write based on what I've observed.

~~~
chrisseaton
Which European city centres are car free?

Let's just think about capitals. London? Brussels? Paris? Berlin? Dublin?
Lisbon? Bern? Rome?

None of these places are car free. You can go on Google maps and see cars
everywhere. So we know 'all' is nonsense for a start. And 'most' is looking
pretty doubtful already.

~~~
estebank
It's possible that the GP is comparing against their experience in American
cities. If that is the case, then yes, most European cities are "car free".
_I_ would qualify Amsterdam, for example, as "car free" even though it
technically isn't, it's just not a city I would ever think of driving in
because every other way of moving around, including walking is so much nicer
and you see few cars compared to any place in the US. Many times when going to
towns in the US I notice than myself and my wife are the only people walking
on the sidewalks for considerable amounts of time.

