
Eternal Fascism (1995) - pje
http://interglacial.com/pub/text/Umberto_Eco_-_Eternal_Fascism.html
======
YeGoblynQueenne
It is worth reading this article. There are few as authoritative treatises of
fascism. The author is Umberto Eco, an Italian semiotician who lived in
Moussolini's Italy as a young boy. He is also a renowned author, particularly
well known for _The name of the rose_ and _Foucault 's Pendulum_.

But regardless of who it was who wrote this essay- it is an essay that is
really, really worth reading if one is interested in the least in
understanding the rise of fascism in Europe, historically and in modern times.

------
corey_moncure
To the final point of the essay, "Newspeak", I find it extremely discomforting
at the many words in recent public discourse which surface frequently and
whose meanings have been stretched beyond all recognition. Words such as
"racism/racist" on the one side, or "anti-semitism" on the other, have taken
on new meanings so thoroughly divorced from their textbook denotation and
common sense that it's become impossible to have any dialogue around related
topics that doesn't end in indignation and frustration. (For more examples of
hot newspeak, look to Twitter.)

The effect is, of course, that the national conversation is split into two
groups that now fail to have meaningful communication with one another.
Whether you attribute this to the intentions of any particular group is up to
you, but make no mistake, great resources and coordinated effort have been
expended to bring us to where we are.

Perhaps the most disappointing part of all of it is that for all the
ideologues (of all persuasions) trumpeting on social media, not one seems to
ever address essential definitions. Day in and day out, the words are mis-used
and no one asks what is meant by the words, each of us feeling that our
individual conception is the intended one.

------
pje
Flagged? Sorry?

~~~
inflatableDodo
As soon as I saw it, I wondered how long hackernews could tolerate having
Umberto Eco's guide to spotting fascism up on the front page.

Is a touchy subject on here, for some peculiar reason.

Now I wonder what that could possibly be.

~~~
Gibbon1
You can't talk about fascism on hackernews.

~~~
dang
Please don't post shallow dismissals here. That's in the site guidelines too:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).

Had you taken a few seconds to check it before posting a glib swipe, you'd
have seen that it's obviously untrue:
[https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=story...](https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=story&storyText=false&prefix&page=0&query=fascism%20points%3E30).
This very essay has had multiple discussions on HN in the past:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12173823](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12173823)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17413908](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17413908)

And that was the full original essay, not the Utne Reader's digest version.
The issue here is not "you can't talk about fascism". It's that the talk going
around at the moment is predictable partisan flamewar and name-calling, with
the F-word being the biggest tomato thrown. It's that which we don't want on
HN. When thoughtfulness returns to the discussion, I'm sure users will stop
flagging submissions like this.

------
beaner
Having only read the subtitles for each section, it is interesting to me to
see how this could easily be understood by either political party to vilify
their opponents and find things that they do that fall under each. Some
categories seem to apply more to the current-day left, others the current-day
right. Maybe it means they're both screwed up and we're on the path to
disaster. Maybe it means neither is really all that fascist and we're kind of
okay for now.

~~~
topkai22
Early on the essay makes clear distinctions that not all moves toward fascism
are necessarily fascist, in the very first bullet calling out “traditionalism”
as being very distinct from “fascism.”

I myself find solace in some of the points of fascism- that part of the
meaning of life is struggle, and the cult of heroism (are the Marvel movies
fascist?). I certainly don't believe that qualifies me as a fascist,
especially because I also strongly believe that tolerance of others is one of
core principals of political morality.

~~~
humanrebar
Leftist culture can also traditionalist about different things. Nature.
Organics. Natural birth and parenting. Unions. Public schools. Native
languages.

> I also strongly believe that tolerance of others is one of core principals
> of political morality.

Maybe not you, but there is definitely a strain of the "anti-fascist" culture
that is pretty fascist. In the name of diversity and tolerance no less.
Including firings, blackballing, and public beatings in extreme cases.

Of course there are fascists that appeal back to an idyllic monoculture that
never really existed, but they get enough press that it's already well
covered.

~~~
deogeo
> Leftist culture can also traditionalist about different things.

From a US perspective, I would add "we are a nation of immigrants (therefore
immigration should continue)" to that list.

------
inflatableDodo
Umberto Eco is generally considered to be one of the best analysts regarding
the politics of fascism. For those who find this essay to be discomforting
reading in light of our contemporary political movements, perhaps it is not
the words of Umberto that are in need of critique.

------
fitzroy
The full Umberto Eco essay: [https://www.pegc.us/archive/Articles/eco_ur-
fascism.pdf](https://www.pegc.us/archive/Articles/eco_ur-fascism.pdf)

Another 14 point list by Dr. Lawrence Britt that is also relevant:
[https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html](https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html)

A Scholar of Fascism Sees a Lot That’s Familiar with Trump
[https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/a-scholar-
of-...](https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/a-scholar-of-fascism-
sees-a-lot-thats-familiar-with-trump)

