
Away’s former CEO is returning as its co-chief - sarthakjshetty
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/13/business/steph-korey-away.html
======
simplicio
Reading between the lines of the Verge piece, I got the impression that weird
abusive behaviour aside, she just wasn't very good at managing her company.
They seemed to have chronic supply problems that she didn't seem to have any
idea how to fix beyond yelling at her customer outreach staff. And when her
customer outreach people kept getting behind, she tried to con them into
working extra till they started quitting or complaining to Verge, instead of
just, like, hiring 3 more people

~~~
spamizbad
This was my read too, which is mostly why I'm completely incredulous that
people actually defended her. She clearly is doing a poor job managing her
supply chain, and ultimately giving her support staff the yeoman's task of
preventing operational shortcomings from destroying the company's reputation
with customers, while chronically understaffing a division that clearly needs
to be twice as large as its clearly being used as a "hack" to compensate for
other organizational deficiencies.

If your entire organization is riding on the backs of a bunch of over-worked,
underpaid staff... hooo booy buckle up Verge stories are the least of your
worries.

------
walterkrankheit
I've worked with people like the one The Verge paints Korey to be. The fact
that she quit and then came back points more to The Verge's reporting to be
accurate - this kind of personality can usually never accept the mistakes
they've made and just doubles down in the future in an attempt to prove they
were right.

~~~
rguzman
why is coming back a failure to accept they made mistakes?

~~~
sushid
Looks like it’s more of a PR duck your head for a while until things cool down
vs. external pressure and internal acceptance of bad behavior that led to them
stepping down.

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leothekim
“The members of Away’s board say they feel as if they fell victim to
management by Twitter mob.”

This statement speaks volumes about the efficacy of board governance.

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _volumes about the efficacy of board governance_

Not sure it does.

The Board could have gotten caught up in a mob, regained its senses, and
started pulling on the reins again. Or blaming Twitter could be the messaging
around what was really a compensation (or some other) negotiation.

~~~
Traster
There's nothing about this that indicates the board asserted itself at all.
The plan to step down was presented to the board by the CEO who wanted to move
to become Chairwoman of the board.

------
Fede_V
The part of the original story that upset me the most is how the people she
abused were underpaid and overworked customer support staff.

An incredibly strong signal of how decent someone is is how well they treat
people that have no ability to help them. Even a selfish asshole will be
charming and kind to the rich and powerful: if you want to see their true
colors look how their reports talk about them when they aren't around, or how
they treat a waiter who messed up their order.

~~~
jahlove
> Even a selfish asshole will be charming and kind to the rich and powerful

See Harvey Weinstein.

------
mrcu5
To quote Oscar from The Office:

 _Look, it doesn 't take a genius to know that every organization thrives when
it has two leaders. Go ahead, name a country that doesn't have two presidents.
A boat that sets sail without two captains. Where would Catholicism be without
the popes?_

------
excerionsforte
I'm confused, the backlash was after they already started the search in early
2019 ([https://www.wsj.com/articles/online-luggage-startup-away-
say...](https://www.wsj.com/articles/online-luggage-startup-away-says-ceo-is-
stepping-down-11575930577)). I thought they said they wanted to install
someone who had more experience before all of this due to their own internal
investigation.

~~~
Terretta
Translated, the founding CEO wanted to install someone that would “sell well”
for IPO. Successful Lululemon exec story brings that.

They’re going back to that because it’s how they will get best valuation as
shareholders. Not an ego play, a convert shares to more cash play.

------
thomasedwards
If you like the cases and want an alternative, the Muji ones are probably
better in a lot of ways, and Muji have shops.

~~~
siralonso
I’ve been using the muji cases for years. My partner just got an Away case of
equivalent size as a gift, and I can’t figure out why people would choose them
over muji. In almost every way the muji cases feel better to use, and they
seem much more durable.

The one attractive thing about the away cases is the lifetime warranty, but I
don’t know how easy it is to submit a claim.

~~~
fnord77
> The one attractive thing about the away cases is the lifetime warranty

lifetime warranty is worthless if the company goes out of business, too

~~~
seattle_spring
Paging now defunct "lifetime warranty" backpack company Boreas Bags, whose
founders rebranded to Alite Designs just to weasel their way out of their
previous iteration's warranties.

------
yowlingcat
The journalists are going to continue to have a field day with this. She shows
no signs of growth, and in fact seems to have doubled down on denial. The
company turns a profit with a simple business model and a product people like,
but the brand halo will only last so long, and this kind of dysfunction can
only be catnip to a fast follower. There is only one way to play this, which
is for the adult in the room who was hired to clean up this mess to defang her
and give her a short leash, seek exit, and fast.

The alternative is that she runs the company into the ground on the backs of
her employees and courts PR disaster after PR disaster. It's a dangerous game
to play -- in this climate, bad PR is still PR. But she's going to be in the
hot seat now, and one slip up that the court of public opinion doesn't like,
and she's going to be back to square one.

------
wbl
"Come work for us. We're changing the world"

"By curing cancer or going to space?"

"Not exactly..."

------
cwkoss
On original verge article: "Update December 6th, 8:20PM ET: This story was
updated to reflect that Erin Grau does not identify as a person of color."

I'm curious about the story of this update. Original reporting claimed Erin
Grau identified as a person of color (near context of "“The stuff you said was
hateful, even racist. You no longer have a job at this company.” Emily, who is
a person of color, was shocked. “That was jarring — three white people telling
me I was racist,” she says.")

Did Erin Grau previously identify as a person of color at time of reporting?
Does she no longer identify as a person of color as a result of this article?
(I saw her get a lot of ridicule online because she very much looks white.)

------
Cyclone_
She disputes the reporting, but didn't say specifically what it was that they
got wrong. The screenshots of slack messages were pretty clear evidence to me.

------
crsv
I’m sure she’s totally learned her lesson and will change her abhorrent
behavior permanently.

~~~
Touche
From the article it seems that they are now disputing the reporting and blame
Twitter for her having stepped down.

So from her perspective the lesson to learn here is to keep the company's
dirty laundry out of the media. I suspect the culture will become even worse
at Away, but more secretive. Monitoring people's Slack messages. Scolding
people in places without a paper trail, etc.

------
tomhoward
A reminder of this article/HN discussion [1] where John Gruber speculated that
the attacks on Korey published in The Verge may have been part of an internal
power struggle.

I have no particular insights or opinions on the matter; I do think it's
worthwhile context, given this development.

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21749694](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21749694)

~~~
lotsofpulp
I don't see how that's possible considering the proof of Korey's
unprofessional communications.

------
achow
> _The members of Away’s board say they feel as if they fell victim to
> management by Twitter mob._

Interesting times. Social media is dictating countries, and companies
governance. Of course, before internet there was media (newspaper etc) which
used to do that.

But in these times people or rather _mobs_ have got that power - for better or
worse.

~~~
bloogsy
"Social media" make it seems like some separate entity, it's still public
sentiment. You have also bought into the framing the company has used to make
itself seem like the victim by referring to "mobs" having power, rather than a
company and CEO facing backlash from the public finding out about its terrible
culture behind the scenes, as it rightly should.

~~~
barry-cotter
> "Social media" make it seems like some separate entity, it's still public
> sentiment.

If your target market is American teenage boys and some Qatari old men really,
really hate you their feelings are public sentiment too but you shouldn’t care
in the slightest. Likewise what journalists think should be irrelevant
compared to what customers think.

------
jjmorrison
This is the story of a young founder who is scared and trying her best at an
impossible task. And young employees who believed they were allowed to get the
job they wanted at the company they wanted.

But that's not how the system works. You need to vote with your feet - you
don't like it, leave and let them know you aren't going to put up with it.
Without that, we're all just arguing about what's ok and what's not. Don't
complain, vote!

~~~
Uehreka
Part of the problem with that approach is that the market won't sink bad
companies unless it has information that they are bad.

Plenty of companies play the game of "hire employees, treat them like crap,
when they leave hire new employees by misrepresenting what the company is
like". The labor market is huge, and you can always find new employees that
don't know your previous employees.

So you could argue "If you don't like what the company is doing, don't shop
there!" But unless current/former employees speak out, the market (consumers,
investors) won't necessarily know "what the company is doing" and won't
penalize them.

In this case, employees spoke up, and a whole bunch of people who read the
Verge (who are probably in the "luggage buying demographic") decided they
didn't like what the company was doing and voiced their concerns stating they
would no longer buy the company's product. The board fired the CEO, this
apparently satisfied many customers, now they're walking it back and I guess
we'll find out how the market feels about it.

But I don't see anything wrong with this approach as long as the reporting is
well done (and in this case it was).

~~~
jjmorrison
I think I disagree with that. The labor pool isn't unlimited and there's laws
in place to protect workers. Reading this article as someone that's worked in
banking it seems unfair to treat this company a different way that all others.
We all still go to banks despite the horrible ways they treat their workers.

Ruling by mob means the treatment is unfair across companies. I think people
should argue for laws that are broadly applicable when the market fail. And in
this case I think the market (even like glassdoor, reviews, etc) would tank
the company's ability to hire it it was not a place people wanted to work.

~~~
charlesu
I have never heard of a company struggling to hire due to reputation. Low
wages or lack of qualified workers, sure. Reputation? Never.

~~~
jjmorrison
I suppose it's not a broadly discussed topic, but it's definitely a thing. HR
or recruiting teams would speak best to it. But you can spot this pretty
easily. A recent example is Uber. When you do a big lay off followed by
accelerated hiring, it's signaling the end of a talent drought. You can't
performance manage very aggressively in a period of crisis since it's really
hard to hire. So the bar goes down. At some point you clean up, and bring the
bar back up. Uber couldn't hire well at all for several years as they went
through their culture struggles.

It's definitely less of a problem for lower skilled jobs. And that makes sense
since the labour is a lot more replaceable. But it's also why unions are there
to prevent abuse.

I won't pretend to claim the system works perfectly. My point is just that
there are levers there already that work pretty well. And we should decide as
a society how to play or add levers. Managing by mod is really a dictatorship
run by the angriest twitter users. If that's who we want running the show - I
think that should at least be put to a vote... I'm definitely against it.

------
Traster
This seems incredibly cynical. She pretends to step down to try and do damage
limitation, then when customers, investors and suppliers are surprised they
are still dealing with her she decides, actually, the heat is off and she'll
just cancel her stepping down. Notice how through all of that she's actually
not really dealt with the problem in the first place - only the PR impact. Now
having changed literally nothing, and not addressed the issue she's decided
she can move on and wants to sue the reporters.

Oh and to really put the icing on the cake she gives a statement saying she's
been doing some deep soul searching and reframed all of the issues as just

>“When I think back on ways I’ve phrased feedback, there have been times where
the word choice isn’t as thoughtful as it should have been, or the way it was
framed actually wasn’t as constructive as it could have been,” she said.
“Those are not, in the eyes of our leadership and the eyes of our board,
terminal, unsolvable problems.”

Well firstly, the eyes of 'our leadership' appear to be... guess who! And
apparently, creating corporate policies to publicly humiliate employees and
denying them private spaces to talk is a matter of how she "phrases feedback"?
Pressuring workers to work extra outside of work hours and at anti-social
hours? Badly phrased feedback. To me this just screams "I didn't do anything
wrong but need to handle PR for the IPO".

~~~
stock_toaster
It's pretty amazing what awful things executives can get away with. Though,
truth be told...compared to stories about some of the CEOs in the valley, this
seems pretty small potatoes.

------
alfalfasprout
One of my friends has an away bag and I don't really see the hype. If you're
looking for a lower priced bag with a great warranty then Brigs and Riley's
build quality is far better and they have a lifetime warranty.

If you want a well-built aluminum case then Tumi and Zero Haliburton are the
way to go (sadly Rimowa went downhill after the LVMH acquisition).

------
Apocryphon
Startup name breaks promise

------
brodo
“The internet” has short memory, but not that short. She should have waited at
least half a year.

~~~
dbbk
I don't think most people particularly care about this to be honest

~~~
fnord77
oh I don't know. lots of people on flyertalk stating they cannot support a
company with such toxic management.

these people are influencers

------
hadiz
I am not surprised. She somehow was able to bleed her employees dry for
business benefits. People at power love someone like that. Of course they're
not gonna let her go so easily.

------
crispyambulance
Seems like a lot of drama for 4-year old luggage company that has a couple
dozen products, some accessories and a podcast. Yet they got 100 million in
their last round of funding and have a "valuation" of 1.4 billion according to
wikipedia.

What's wrong with just building a business that makes stuff, selling and
marketing it, hiring people as needed, making a decent profit, and per-chance
innovating? But giant globs of venture capital money for luggage, LUGGAGE?

~~~
rchaud
It's for this reason I bookmark the 37signals blog section "Bootstrapped,
Profitable and Proud" [0], which is a set of posts about small companies who
are just out there selling stuff. No VCs, no term sheets. Just small business,
like the ones we're told America is built on.

It honestly gets tiring reading about the latest "unicorn" company that's
valued at a billion plus despite grossing nowhere near that and never making a
profit.

[0]: [https://basecamp.com/bootstrapped](https://basecamp.com/bootstrapped)

~~~
giggles_giggles
Hmm, the list is a little strange, as it includes a few entrants that are
shadows of their former selves. I can speak to one that I'm personally
familiar with: A Small Orange is a hosting company that sold to a conglomerate
and the entire staff was cycled out after the sale. Now it's merely a shell
corporation with a website with some branding, the same as every other
Endurance International Group brand. The infrastructure and whatnot is all
EIG, and the staff is intermingled with the staff from dozens of other small-
name web hosts, and not to mention that that whole industry has been bleeding
money since the advent of AWS. I guess it was started as a small business, but
it's not one that prevailed. The owner made some money when he sold it -- in
2010 or 2011. Now? It's barely a company at all.

~~~
rchaud
Business is fluid, so I imagine some of those posts are going to be out of
date. I'm reading them more to learn about how they started and what their
basic business model was at the time of writing. Like I said, it's a respite
from the breathless coverage of the latest food delivery app that raised a
billion in their last round.

------
r_singh
PG's prediction inspired by this event:
[https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1217010274672304130](https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1217010274672304130)

~~~
whywhywhywhy
Twitters relevancy to the wider world and your actual customers is extremely
exaggerated simply because so many journalists rely on it to make their lives
easier or are actively addicted to it.

End of the day it’s just a glorified Internet forum. Would you oust a CEO
because 1000 Reddit users commented against them in a thread? Not likely but
it’s about as relevant in the real world as a twitter outrage mob.

Not commenting on Away CEOs actions specifically. Just saying that hardly
anyone has a twitter account. Hardly anyone with an account actually uses it
and out of those who do use it most of the content is driven by a small group
of actual addicts of the platform and shouldn’t really be taken as seriously
as it is.

It’s not the real world, it’s a lens that magnifies a tiny and specific sliver
of the world and gives it false credibility beyond what it actually has.

~~~
r_singh
What do you think about people who leave reviews on websites like yelp,
tripadvisor, capterra, etc?

Do you think they're also review writing addicts who shouldn't be taken
seriously or do you think one should take what they write seriously while
making a purchase decision?

PS - Not trying to compare deciding who to keep CEO vs. making a purchase.
Genuinely want your opinion.

~~~
barry-cotter
> What do you think about people who leave reviews on websites like yelp,
> tripadvisor, capterra, etc?

Those people are (former) customers. They gave you money and might do it
again. Their opinions have real relevance. A journalist’s opinions only matter
insofar as they are a customer or their writing changes the behavior of
customers.

------
sudhirj
TLDR: CEO says stupid shit to make a point and drive the team hard, Interwebs
raise hell because some of the recipients were minorities, CEO feels the only
way to defuse the situation is to apologize and resign, handing over to Eric
Schmidt type adult supervisor who was already slated to come on board, then
realizes that everyone thinks the public face of the company is exiting in
disgrace and that sales and partnership meetings are going to be awkward, so
stays on as co-CEO until adult supervisor is fully caught up and ready to do
the IPO.

~~~
notfromhere
It was more the abusive work environment. She’s a good example of someone who
shouldn’t be in charge of employees.

------
Thorentis
I guess he just couldn't stay Away

~~~
drsozesakamoto
It's a she

------
Mindwipe
Followup prediction - this year more major platforms will realise that there's
no fixing the calls for increased moderation and policing and will switch back
to not really doing any content policing at all.

------
samdung
Im glad this is happening ... for reasons aptly stated in this essay:
[https://eggonomy.com/blogs/news/ellsworth-toohey-award-
for-z...](https://eggonomy.com/blogs/news/ellsworth-toohey-award-for-zoe-
schiffer)

