
Ask HN: Laptops for programming (that aren't Apple laptops)? - lelandbatey
I&#x27;m looking for a laptop with:<p>1. 1080p screen
2. 5+ hours of battery life
3. A keyboard that&#x27;s nice to type on<p>I don&#x27;t care if it&#x27;s made of wood and painted with rainbows and superheroes, but for the life of me I just cannot find a straightforward laptop for programming. I don&#x27;t care about gaming, I don&#x27;t care about hard disk size beyond about 120GB. It just has to be &quot;fast enough&quot; with a nice long battery, good screen, and a keyboard that doesn&#x27;t make me hate typing.<p>Why must it be so hard to find a site that lets me filter on <i>resolution</i> instead of screen size? Why do all the reviews I find online talk about the &quot;finish&quot; of the laptop, or the way it looks? Why can&#x27;t I find any reviews from professionals?<p>Btw, there&#x27;s a project for you: detailed collection of data about different products, similar to [0]PcPartPicker, but for things like laptops, or cars, or whatever.
======
dkhar
Some of the newer Asus Zenbooks have the three criteria you're looking for,
but they're very flaky on consistency and reliability (different trackpad
hardware on the same laptop at random, screens dying randomly).

I actually have no huge OS preference, but I use a MacBook because it's
literally the only thing on the market right now that fulfills those three
criteria (I also have a fourth: <5 lbs) and reliably performs for longer than
a year.

Lenovo's keeping up to some extent (I loved the X220 and X230, but the X240 is
no longer competitive. Like others here have mentioned, the T440s is pretty
nice, but the trackpad is clunky), but HP, Dell, Toshiba, Sony, and everyone
else seem to have completely forgotten about the business laptop market. What
happened, laptop manufacturers?

~~~
tjdetwiler
Can you elaborate on your opinion of the x240 (x220/x230 fan here, never used
am x240)

~~~
dkhar
In short, I think the X240 improves incrementally on its predecessors, but the
rest of the market has moved fast enough that it's behind the curve now.

Slightly longer:

For $1000 today, I can get a Macbook Air with:

\- An SSD

\- _Twice_ the battery life (yeah, the X240 has nice removable batteries, but
that kind of defeats the point of an ultraportable)

\- A higher res screen that's only half an inch bigger

\- A far nicer trackpad

\- A nicer graphics chipset

I'd be giving up:

\- Alloy roll cage and spill protection

\- Powerbridge (hot-swappable batteries)

\- A touch screen/digitizer (an Intuos2 ($40 from ebay) fills that gap nicely
for me)

I don't think the X240 is a bad laptop, but, right now, the costs far outweigh
the benefits.

------
informatimago
Now, laptops are used usually when moving or in different places.

One important part here is that it must be able to adapt quickly and easily to
the different environment, meaning, network connections, external screens
(retroprojectors), etc.

Honestly, the only kind of laptop/system that can do that, are MacOSX Apple
laptops. I'm afraid I must say that even with Linux you will often have
difficulties to connect to the random WIFI setups you'll find, or to manage
the external monitors, etc (and I won't even mention MS-Windows, what a joke).

Oh, and there's also the battery life, 8+ or 10+ hours...

I mean, my main workstation is a Linux box, but as laptop, I use a MacBookAir,
because when you're on battery you don't want to lose half an hour of battery
time connecting to the network (or losing half the times the hibernation
state).

As for keyboard, well, it's laptop keyboard anyways. When working at home,
just hook a DasKeyboard or a Filco Otaku on the USB port.

Given your need in pixels, you'd want a MacBook Pro Retina.
[http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs-retina/](http://www.apple.com/macbook-
pro/specs-retina/)

I've worked recently for a year with a Dell laptop with various linux
distributions on it (mainly at first ubuntu, but later I switched to debian)
and it was quite decent (very nice screen and processor), however it still had
those little problem with hibernation, external screens from time to time,
switching wifi setups was horrible, and battery time (not mentionning the
heat). (On the other hand, I must say that ubuntu works well on a little
netbook computer I have around, but of course, I don't ask as much of it as of
a development computer (come to think of it, it still had quite a difficult
time with a GSM dongle)).

No, really, if you want to be productive with your laptop, use a Mac one.

~~~
brulez
I used to code with a macbook pro for about a year and recently switched to
the asus zenbook ux301. I definitely prefer it over the macbook.

I was very disappointed with the multi-monitor support on Mac. Some apps
takeover both monitors while others don't, and maximizing/docking windows
left/right was just tedious. Windows nails multi-monitor support, even
remembering the display configuration based on which external monitor is
plugged in.

Not having Linux is annoying because cygwin is pretty terrible, but I just SSH
into a remote linux server or local vm.

~~~
btgeekboy
Two questions:

1\. Have you tried full screen in 10.9? Seems to have improved things a bit,
though it's definitely a work in progress.

2\. Which SSH client do you use? I'm considering getting a Surface 3 Pro, but
the lack of a proper terminal like Terminal.app or Gnome Terminal makes me
skittish. PuTTY is...okay. (The alternative would be to get a 13" rMBP to
replace the one I'm returning to my soon-former employer this week.)

~~~
lelandbatey
If you want a really good terminal on Windows, I recommend installing Cygwin.
It's terminal is extremely full featured, as well as giving you a *nix way of
interacting with your Windows install. I couldn't live without it!

------
UnoriginalGuy
I'd say a Thinkpad T or W series are quite safe bets. With the 9 cell battery
you'll get quite a bit more than 5 hours of battery and the keyboards are a
dream.

Honestly if it isn't a Macbook then it is a Thinkpad. I myself have a
Microsoft Surface Pro 3 but that is only used for coding part time, I have a
big heavy "workstation replacement" laptop with a keyboard/mouse/monitor as my
main coding machine(and gaming)

~~~
reirob
Agree on ThinkPad, but attention the models from this year on (model names
finishing with 40) don't have physical trackpoint/-pad buttons anymore, the
keyboard layout is less accessible, the models with touchscreen reflect so
much you get headaches after 30 minutes. I sent back a T440 and bought a used
T430. I am too worried about my next model.

------
scholia
Go to Amazon.com and search for laptop 1080 or laptop 1080p or your preferred
resolution

[http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1/177-6303522-8868339...](http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1/177-6303522-8868339?url=search-
alias%3Daps&field-keywords=laptop%201080)

The Lenovo T440 is a good choice because you can have up to 12GB of RAM and
its two batteries last "up to 17 hours" (the second battery is swappable).
Screen resolution is 1600 x 900.

The standard processor is a 2.6GHz Intel Core i5-4200U, which isn't very fast
(but is ultra-low voltage). You can upgrade the spec to an i7-4600U.

There's a review at [http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Lenovo-
ThinkPad-T440-20B...](http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Lenovo-
ThinkPad-T440-20B6005YGE-Notebook.114855.0.html)

I don't like the new Lenovo ThinkPad keyboards as much as the old IBM ones,
but views differ.

HP EliteBook Folio 1040 G1 is also worth a look.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Don't buy a 1080p if you can afford not to. These will be obsolete in a year
or two as the whole industry moves over to UHD.

~~~
mjcohen
Everything will be obsolete in a year or two. You just have to decide what
piece of obsolete equipment will do the job you need done. And don't complain.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
But this is the year where we truly start moving to UHD en masse, you can get
a UHD laptop already for around $800. Software is eventually going to be
optimized for 2X pixel densities, and your 1080p screen will be worthless.

~~~
lelandbatey
Except a 1080p screen at 15 inches is so far ahead of what I currently have
that I really don't care. A 1080p screen isn't worthless to me.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
I've got 1600 x 900 and the pixels stick out like sore thumbs.

~~~
scholia
Are you short-sighted or is that a very big screen?

------
superJoy
There's this:
[http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd](http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd).
13" 1080p screen, 128 GB SSD, 4th gen i5, very thin, comes with Ubuntu. $1200

I did all my laptop research in May of this year. Ended up with a Dell M3800.
It's the base model with 1080p screen. I added an mSATA SSD. The XPS 15 is the
same thing but the GPU is flashed with the Radeon drivers vs. the Quadro. I
needed Windows/Quadro for best compatibility with CAD software.

"Retina" screens don't make much difference in my productivity imo.

------
dangrossman
I use an ASUS UX301LA-DH71T. It's a 2560x1440 13.3" ultrabook with a Haswell
i7 and can run up to 8 hours on battery. It's thin, light, small enough to be
portable, and super-capable for development (8GB RAM, dual-SSD RAID, i7 CPU
and the integrated GPU is faster than the discrete Radeon in my last laptop).
I typically have it docked to a second screen, but use its keyboard for
programming. I have no complaints. It even comes with a one-year _accidental
damage_ warranty from the manufacturer, which I've never heard of a
manufacturer offering before.

[http://www.amazon.com/Zenbook-UX301LA-DH71T-Quad-HD-
Display-...](http://www.amazon.com/Zenbook-UX301LA-DH71T-Quad-HD-Display-
Touchscreen/dp/B00EPGHEQS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1404783458&sr=8-1&keywords=asus+ux301)

If I cared less about having a decent GPU, I'd have also considered the
Samsung ATIV Book 9 Plus (3200x1800 13" screen). I haven't looked at what's
come out since the beginning of the year, but these two were the only non-
Apple machines that met all my needs.

------
eddiedunn
I'm surprized nobody has provided a link to Dell's XPS 13 "Developer edition"
laptop.

[http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/555/campaigns/xps-linux-
lapt...](http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/555/campaigns/xps-linux-laptop)

I bought one after using an Asus UX31E for two years and the Dell laptop is
better in almost every aspect. To wit:

* 1080p IPS screen

* 5+ hours of battery

* An amazing keyboard (imho better than Macbook keyboards, which are by many considered among the best laptop keyboards)

* Weight is only 1.36 kg

* Comes with Linux (Ubuntu) pre-installed

The only thing I preferred with my Zenbook was its trackpad, which was smooth
and metallic, since my sweaty fingers have a tendency to stick on the XPS
trackpad. On the other hand, I _hated_ the Zenbook keyboard, and would choose
a good keyboard over a good trackpad any day.

------
blind3y3design
Is there a reason you don't want an apple laptop? If it's because you dot want
to use osx then simply put windows on it. MacBook actually make really good
windows machines. And for the price since your not looking for a massive hdd
the new MacBook airs are incredible.

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
Respectfully disagree. I read people claim this a lot online and it only makes
me wonder: Have you actually tried it?

I tried to install Windows 8 onto a 2013 MBP and to describe the experience as
painful would be a massive understatement. I had to manually format the
partitions, manually mount drivers into the installer, and bypass Bootcamp's
boot process as it would BSOD the Windows installer.

Even once I got Windows 8 to install (and that took over a week, since once
you fix one issue there ere are four more waiting for you) the OS ran like a
dog and had less than 50% of OS X's battery life (much less than a Thinkpad
T440).

OS X is great, it really is. Windows is great. Running Windows on a Macbook is
horrifying.

Oh did I mention that both Apple AND Microsoft wash their hands with it when
it comes to support? Apple's response: "Contact Microsoft," Microsoft's
response: "Contact the laptop's OEM." So anyone who thinks Apple supports
Bootcamp, LOL, hell no. To quote one Apple support tech: "Why would you want
to run Windows on a Macbook?" and "You should use Parallel Desktops instead,
Bootcamp isn't as good."

~~~
un3n
"I tried to install Windows 8" Well theres your problem, and I mean that half
jokingly, and half serious. I've ran windows xp and 7 on a mac via bootcamp
and it was a great experience, literally the opposite of yours. I had similar
requirements as the OP and for me a macbook pro was the best possible option.

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
According to Apple's Bootcamp page they supported Windows 8 at that time. It
was a supported OS. There just wasn't much support available when you actually
spoke to someone at Apple in general when it came to Bootcasmp, they just
blamed the Windows installer and sent you to Microsoft (who then sent you back
to Apple).

------
rickr
If you've got a big box store around check out the lenovo yoga 2. Hidpi
screen, ok keyboard, good battery and relativity cheap. The convertible screen
comes in handy as well. I thought it would be a gimmick but I ended up using
it pretty often.

~~~
jamesbritt
I dropped by a local Microsoft store to see machines. They had a Yoga 2 and it
looked pretty slick. One thing I liked was the matte screen.

A down side for me with newer, lightweight devices is that often there is no
practical way to open them up to change anything.

I have a Thinkpad W500 (WUXGA, yay!) that has hinge issues, so I'm looking for
a replacement. The W500 (and I assume other versions of the larger Thinkpads)
makes it easy to slide in and out different hard drives, and upgrading memory
is easy.

I'd like that in a new machine but it seems to be a feature of workhorse
machines that fall short on battery life (as does the W500).

------
elwell
I've been really happy with my HP ProBook 4530s. As the name hints at: you'll
notice a bit of MacBook Pro mimicry; but not in the price. Been using it for a
few years and would definitely recommend it still.

~~~
elwell
In fact, the keyboard is so close to the MacBook Pro's that you can almost use
a silicone keyboard cover that is meant for MacBook Pro. I think only one key
doesn't match.

------
lmilcin
I love my t440s. With 6-cell battery I can survive for almost 20 hours of
continuous work on single charge if I don't load it too much.

------
mxvanzant
Just got one of these today and keyboard is great, screen 1080p, very nice.
Running Linux Mint 17 + Mate: Lenovo Thinkpad W540, 20BG0011US.

------
andor
Any business laptop should do, take a look at Thinkpad, Dell Latitude and HP
models. The Lenovo T440s has a good 14 inch 1080p IPS panel.

------
mxvanzant
Also, battery life seems very long (showing approx. 5 hours left after an hour
of use, but I haven't tried it that long yet...)

------
aosmith
I have an X1 carbon (runs Fedora). I was a mac convert and it's hands down the
best machine I've ever owned.

------
mattl
ThinkPad T440s. Insane battery life, 1080p model exists Trackpad is a POS but
that can be fixed easily.

~~~
lelandbatey
What do you mean when you say the trackpad can be "fixed easily". Do you mean
just use a mouse, or is there some other way to improve it?

~~~
pwnna
Yeah I would like to know as well. This is why I won't buy another thinkpad
after T430 if they don't restore the top buttons for the trackpoint.

Right now I have a T420 (which has the famous overheating issue) and a W530
and I'm quite happy. However this may change in the next couple of years.

As far as Mac goes, I use a Macbook at work and I absolutely hate it. Mostly
as I have my nice Linux environments setup and cannot understand why Apple
can't conform to the standard CTRL SUPER ALT keyboard. Though this is just my
opinion.

~~~
jamesbritt
_This is why I won 't buy another thinkpad after T430 if they don't restore
the top buttons for the trackpoint._

I get the feeling that ship has sailed; Lenovo seems to want to make second-
best Dell or Apple machines instead of first-rate Thinkpad machines.

I've a few Thinkpad standalone keyboards (all without the trackpad) and I just
assume that with whatever my next laptop is I'll end up using one of those
external keyboards.

I've even sketched out ideas on how I might modify one so that it can be
plopped on top of an existing laptop keyboard without hitting anything.

------
igaape
If price isn't an issue I'd definitely look into the Razer Blade 14" It's
every bit as good as a MacBook Pro in build quality and has really high end
specs (since it's a gaming laptop) is also touch screen and a windows machine

