
Ask HN: Is there something like HN for successful entrepreneurs? - icode
I still love to read HN every day. But I also wish there was something similar for people who already built a successful startup. Something where I can discuss things like: How to spend all those $s. How to invest them. How to reduce taxes. How to travel the world. What are great places and what are great things to do there. What are interesting purposes of life after you have accomplished your financial goals.<p>I know there are some successful entrepreneurs here like Paul Graham, Gabriel Weinberg and Giacomo Guilizzoni. But they mainly talk about how to make even more money. I would like to think beyond that. How to change the trajectory as Derek Sivers once put it. (And even Sivers mainly talks about business. Looks like its damn hard to really change trajectory).<p>Any ideas?
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Mz
I imagine if there were such a forum, it would not be public like this because
membership would imply "I have money" and that makes people a target.

I think a better approach would be to join forums related to specific
interests which aren't dependent upon "I have made it as an entrepreneur." An
expensive hobby would likely surround you with other people in similar
circumstances in terms of financial success, though they may not have made it
as entrepreneurs.

~~~
some
Why wouldnt that apply here as well? Some successful guys post here. Do they
get hassled?

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Mz
I don't think it applies here because the focus is on making money and solving
problems, not on "how can I spend my fortune?" However, that doesn't mean that
some members don't get hassled. It's entirely possible they do but since I
don't have money (I have nothing but debt and have said that repeatedly), I
really am not someone who can say for sure if the folks who have made it get
hassled by people who meet them through HN.

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polyfractal
Not an answer to your question, but it is pretty common for people who have
"made it" to go traveling for a year or two and then realize they are bored.
Then they go back to work. This is pretty common when people retire too.
Retire, think they will spend the rest of their life traveling only to find
out it gets pretty boring fast.

A lot of people work because they like to work, whether they admit it to
themselves or not.

~~~
some
> A lot of people work because they like to work

Or because they are wired in a way that they dont know what else to do. I
would feel like i have been fallen into a trap if I was to spend my next 10
years trying to build the next company. I want to broaden my horizon.

~~~
polyfractal
Good point. On one of the "Startups For the Rest of Us" podcast, Rob
essentially said the same thing. Paraphrasing:

"It took me a long time to realize I could go on vacation for a month at a
time and not worry. I kept thinking 'Shouldn't I be working? Isn't there
something I need to do?'"

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vaksel
I think it's something that would need to be built from scratch.

One thing to focus on, would be to manually verify all members before granting
access.

Unfortunately, it would have to be made by someone who has the connections to
make it happen. Because otherwise it won't it'll be dead.

Although, if you've made it, you got the cash to pay for advice from experts.
Instead of asking a bunch random people about tax law...you can just hire a
good accountant...instead of asking which vacation spot to go to, you can find
a good travel agent. etc etc

~~~
icode
> just hire a good accountant > find a good travel agent

What, no more Web 2.0? Back to the old one-on-one consultations?

~~~
vaksel
web 2.0 is to make things affordable...but it's almost always subpar to
getting 1 on 1 consultation from an expert

\+ it goes down to opportunity cost...sure you could become an expert after
spending hundreds of hours...or you can pay the fee and go back to enjoying
your retirement.

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rch
Try Aman Resorts (<http://www.amanresorts.com>) -- I can personally recommend
amansara and amandari.

Then get back to work!

~~~
sunchild
I can personally recommend Amankila as well. It's one of those places that
leaves you alone all the time, except when you arrive and leave. The
management is there to greet you and send you off. They very graciously helped
me arrange a number of things outside the normal purview of hotel staff,
including a large shipment of custom furniture. They give you the feeling that
_you_ are their "boss" while you're a guest there.

I also have similarly great things to say about COMO Shambala in Ubud, Bali.

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randfish
I think <http://onstartups.com> run by Dharmesh Shah is probably the closest
thing to what you're seeking.

~~~
icode
It looks like it also is all about making more money over there.

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vessenes
Join The Entrepreneur's Organization. It's excellent, and will fulfill the
desires you mention.

~~~
icode
You got an URL for that?

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effektz
I would love to be a part of something like that, but I don't know of anywhere
currently. If you want to get away from "new" entrepreneur, why not built a
site called entrepreolder.

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astrofinch
On a similar note, I'd be interested to know if there's an online forum for
wealthy people who are trying to figure out the most effective way to make
charitable donations.

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edwardy20
Quora has many entrepreneurs and intellectuals who are happy to answer
questions. It's not anything like HN, but maybe it'll help you.

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loumf
Read the NYTimes Lifestyle section -- it seems tailor-made to helping people
spend a lot of money.

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nirvana
I've been starting businesses since I was a kid. It is like a hobby, or maybe
an obsession. I once started a business without realizing I had done so![1]
Once I found the pleasure in selling, I just kept doing it. Once I started
having a positive income (e.g.: bringing in more money than I needed to live
well) I started investing. I've been investing for a couple decades, it also
is a hobby. For the past four years I've been a full time nomad-- working on a
startup and traveling full time, living out of a backpack. I have built a half
dozen successful businesses, and worked for two dozen startups. I've spent a
fair bit of time learning about these subjects and would be happy to share my
experiences. I too would like to find a site like this.

The thing is, when you've become successful to some degree, inevitably, your
perspective changes. The perspective of those who've achieved some success is
very different from those who want to achieve success but haven't, yet.

I don't mean this in an elitist way-- there's nothing I'd like more than to
share what I've learned with people who are in the position I was when I was
starting out.

Unfortunately, Hacker News is not that place. When I've broached such
subjects, the responses have not been of the "I'm interested in learning your
perspective" variety, more of the "I'm going to tell you that you're wrong
because authority X told me so."

I'm trying to come up with some examples that won't obviously and immediately
offend people. But, for instance, talking about how you can invest yourself
(one of the OP's topics) often is met with "you'd be better off buying index
funds" responses. It doesn't matter that I've been investing myself and
getting outsized returns, and found that it really isn't that hard, and I'd
love to share the techniques-- the dominant perspective is that individuals
cannot beat the market. Or, if you talk about tax mitigation, the response is
often along the lines of "you shouldn't do that, you owe it to society". Or if
you attempt to explaining what's going on in economic terms but your
perspective disagrees with the popular mainstream one (which is keynesianism,
or more accurately, krugmanism) you're met with often derisive responses. You
know, if economics is a science, it should be able to predict things...and
good economists predicted the housing bubble. Even Ron Paul was caught on
video in 2001 predicting it.

Anyway, one of the big lessons of business that I've learned, is that
economics is important. Perspective is important. Learning about business, and
becoming successful really is about changing your perspective.

Unfortunately, due to the organization of this site (stories disappear
quickly, detailed discussions are a bit difficult) and the culture, it is hard
to share a perspective that disagrees with the majority one.

I once was told my company was not a real startup, but that it was a
"lifestyle business".... this from someone that, near as I could tell, had
never started a business. Hell, even if it is a lifestyle business... it gave
me a fantastic lifestyle! I don't feel that people here on HN want to learn
from those who have had success... and as much success as I _have_ had, I
really want to learn from those who have had _MORE_.

HN is the closest I've found, for all the seemingly negative things I'm saying
about it.... I wish there were a way to change it so that we could share these
things.

But if HN is too big of a ship, then I'd be keen to hang out in a private
forum. Really, get just a dozen good people there- people who have started
businesses and are not ashamed of being capitalists-- and you can have some
great discussion.

[1] I was importing tools from china, and because I didn't know their quality,
and the price was so low, I tended to buy 2 or 4 of everything figuring they
might break. The quality was actually good, so I'd sell the extras, but then
without realizing it I started buying more and more every order. I found that
keeping four drills around was convenient, as I'd just keep different bits in
each one and witch tools, but the next time I ordered, I ordered 4 more drills
and then sold them, then ordered 8 extra drills and sold them as well. Same
thing with bit sets, and other tools. I was making great markups on the tools,
but when I realized what I was doing I stopped because it wasn't really
scalable.

~~~
Mz
_there's nothing I'd like more than to share what I've learned with people who
are in the position I was when I was starting out._

Mz volunteers to be guinea pig and listen to whatever you want to share. ;-)

Peace.

~~~
nirvana
If you name the forum, I'll show up. I also realize that I'm older, and when I
was younger, I thought those who were older were completely off the mark-- and
from the perspective of someone who is now older, I realize they were on the
mark in many ways, but outdated in others.

So, I don't mean to come off like a pompous ass. I'm also keen to learn from
the people who don't have as much experience, but do have a different
perspective....

I don't think it should be too difficult, all that's necessary is to make
arguments over the differences, or ask questions... rather than try and beat
people over the head with politics.

Anyway, as for your guinea pig offer, lets see if I can sum up the things I've
had to learn the hard way in a very succinct manner, that isn't also highly
repetitive of common advice--

\- always have something original to sell

\- investing is made extra easy when your competition thinks they can't win
(e.g.: if they think the market is efficient they won't look for
opportunities.)

\- you can earn %25 a year with only 5 hours a year of time invested.

\- If you're buying any long term investment, know what your return will be
with calculable accuracy _before_ you buy. (Timothy Vick's books on investing
like Buffett are good here.)

\- Everyone in the world think their country is special and unique.

\- Get outside of the USA to see how different the world is from how it is
portrayed within the USA

\- Internationalize your products. It isn't that expensive and you'll get most
of your sales abroad

\- Read "Economics in One Lesson". Economics is really key. Understanding it
will give you amazing powers of prediction.

\- People are the same everywhere, but also different. Every new culture you
live in, levels you up. You'll be surprised at what you learn. And going and
living somewhere for 2 months is much better than the tourist thing. You can
get work done while you do it too.

\- Never be involved in a franchise unless you're the one selling franchises.

\- "The Millionaire Fastlane" is a hokey books, and written for seemingly the
lowest common denominator, but it contains great wisdom.

\- Atlas Shrugged is the most important book I've ever read.

\- All capitalism works by enriching the lives of your customers. The path to
wealth is seemingly "altruistic" because it comes form improving other's
lives. They're inextricably intertwined.

\- If 4 out of 5 businesses fail, start 6 businesses.

\- 1 out of 5 businesses fail in my experience, 2-3 break even, and 1 does
rather well.

\- This one from fight club: "Hitting bottom isn't a weekend retreat. It's not
a goddamn seminar. Stop trying to control everything and just let go! LET GO!"

\- And again: "Only after disaster can we be resurrected."

\- The above two are very taoist / buddhist concepts. You have to let go of
you and see what the market says. "hitting bottom" is getting to the point
where you take in the response of the market to your product or your idea as
the ultimate reality.... you have to let go of your idea that you have a clue
what the market really wants. Only after a product launch disaster can you be
resurrected as an entrepreneur. Or at least, it was something like that for
me. Stop trying to control everything, because doing so keeps you from hearing
what the market is telling you.

\- Always be Closing. Ok, too many movie quotes, but they resonate with me.

\- Always have a marketing strategy. Have at least an idea of something that
customers will stop and take notice of. Something outrageous could be good-
the Virgin method of promotion might work for you. But you gotta be able to
wake people up with just a handful of words that immediately resonate with
them and make them go "damn, I've been having that problem! Sign me up!"

\- If you value the education you receive from failure, you can't lose in
business. That said, might as well go into it whole hog. When you can't lose,
it is impressive how much fear you can eliminate.

\- Never start a business that costs more than $4,000 to get going (for the
essence of the business. ) Never put in real money... it should either make
money on its own right away, or if it requires some investment in technology,
it shouldn't require any real capital. People are great at shopping and it is
easy to rationalize a lot of spending... don't.

\- Options, if properly used, greatly reduce investment risk, while also
boosting returns. Stock options (calls and puts) are the least understood
investment vehicle among the mainstream.

\- I never spent money on a book, including a $90 "Due Diligence" book that I
barely ever read, that didn't pay for itself many times over, on topics such
as investing, business and marketing. Even the bad ones were worth many times
the cover price.

I'm sure a lot of that is obvious... maybe I'd be better talking about
specific topics or sharing specific experiences.

~~~
nirvana
I forgot the most important lesson I've learned:

\-- The reality most people live in, is a complete and total fiction. Most
people just have no clue. They operate at a low level of awareness and
understanding. The "Jay Walking" segments that Jay Leno used to do illustrate
this well. Those are not stupid people, they just aren't aware. To use another
movie analogy, they're still plugged into the matrix. Intrinsically, with
becoming an entrepreneur is to disconnect yourself from the matrix a little
bit. You do want to find out how deep the rabbit hole goes because it is very
illuminating. Don't look down on the people still plugged in. The people who
google for Facebook so that they can get on Facebook are the market. They're
your customers and they may seem stupid, but they aren't. They're just trapped
in a narrower perspective than you have. Most of them don't want to be freed.
Do your best to help them out with your products, but understand where they're
coming from.

The thing about these different perspectives that is really profound is that
people who are operating from a different perspective often don't even realize
it. That perspective is reality to the best of their ability to understand
reality.

Being an entrepreneur means understanding their perspective at least enough to
be able to produce products that benefit them... but that means that you've
got to break out of it if you're starting from the same perspective they are.

~~~
mmcdan
This whole thread is amazing and i'm definitely taking notes. The only thing
I'd add is that ultimately there is no absolute matrix or enlightened
perspective. There are relative layers of perception, eg. a corporate cog
realizing that their own vision can be built from just an idea. But then there
is also the opposite scenario is just as valid, an independent entrepreneur
realizing that working from within the system is often the path of least
resistance to bringing about a vision. There is always something we can unplug
from.

~~~
nirvana
I'd like to explore that thought with you in some detail, but it is hard to do
it in this format. I don't think all perspectives are equally valid, as that
would seem to be a form of moral relativism... but if you're saying you can
always increase your awareness to a higher level, then I agree completely.
There's always more to learn, and there's always a perspective that gives you
a more complete and fuller awareness of reality.

