
Alienation 101: On Chinese Students in the American Midwest - sohkamyung
https://www.1843magazine.com/features/alienation-101
======
aphextron
This problem is even worse in the UC system. All STEM related classes are
easily >50% Chinese international students. They are extremely insular and
hang out/study exclusively with other Chinese. It wouldn't be so bad if it
didn't mean effectively cutting in half the fellow students you can turn to
for support in a class. They should really force the point of integration,
rather than using these kids as paychecks to the detriment of local students.

~~~
hkmurakami
I used to think this way, until one day many years later I realized that, (a)
using a second language is very cognitively demanding and (b) if you've had to
work hard to keep up with the English based instruction all day, it's even
more demanding to get yourself to go use that language that's exhausting to
use, after hours for socializing or group work. Not to mention that most
second language learners of any kind (ex American learning German) will feel
dumb/childlike in their inadequacies in their second language.

So imo we'd do well to have empathy towards their situation.

~~~
cupcakestand
Disagree. When I have been abroad the first time and then my English was
subpar I still hung out with native English folks only to improve. I have
never been with my local folks.

I assume there must be another reason than being exhausted.

~~~
Larrikin
From living abroad in a few different countries, this just isn't the case for
most people unless a specific effort has to be sought out to find similar
people. A large number of people will simply default to hanging out with
people who speak the same language as them when they want to relax. Most
people, but obviously not everyone, until they reach a certain level feel
slightly uneasy in a situation where they are the only non-native. I've been
in the situation many times and had a good time, but the anxiety is there.
What I found the most interesting was that non-native but well spoken English
speakers were also more comfortable with English speakers while they were
learning a new language.

When you aren't forced into the situation, say living in the countryside of a
foreign country, or you aren't extremely studious its fairly natural to spend
your down time with native speakers.

~~~
turbinerneiter
I'm a German native speaker at a University in Germany. In our CubeSat
project, we all use English most of the time. A good third of the students are
foreign, from India, Eastern Europe, Turkey and the rest of the world.

We chose to speak a language _native to none of us_ to be _inclusive to all_.
Everybody speaks English to such an extent that it becomes the lingua france
of students in Germany. I think students coming to the US should be able to
use English, too. Especially given the TOFL/whatever language test you have to
pass to be admitted.

Btw, a common story the exchange students tell is how stupid the other
exchange students who only stay among themselves are.

~~~
Oleg_Chen
Wow, that's cool. Can you please tell the name of the Uni ?

~~~
turbinerneiter
TU Munich

------
cko
As an Asian guy who grew up and attended college in NJ, I've heard anecdotes
of Chinese international students wearing designer clothes and driving
Maseratis but this article makes it seem more prevalent than I've realized.

I recently thought to myself how lucky I was that, being a 6'3" guy who speaks
Mandarin, what a great position I'm in to make lots of money in the coming
decades. I always thought the Chinese loved American culture, so me being
American would make it easier to sell to China. Look everyone, I'm so
westernized! What a disappointment to read that the Chinese government wants
none of that cultural influence. I mean, I understand their point of view, but
damn, there goes my 'easy' money.

I've always grown up self conscious about my Asian-ness, as if I am a second
class citizen. I've always avoided hanging out with other Asian-looking
people.

Great, now I have to worry about this new stereotype too.

~~~
analyst74
Well, if you want to sell to Chinese, you'll have to first learn about
Chinese, no? Although sounds like you already have a headstart by knowing
Mandarin.

Alternatively, you can help represent Chinese firms to Americans, considering
you are one of the few Americans who speak Mandarin, and understand the
nuances of how Asians are perceived in US, which Chinese firms don't have a
clear understanding of.

~~~
vacri
> _Although sounds like you already have a headstart by knowing Mandarin_

I'm currently learning Mandarin, mostly for fun, but I do have this fantasy
that it will make me more employable in future (currently an anglo-australian
monoglot).

Of course it's total fantasy, because if you want someone technical who speaks
both languages, you just hire a Chinese expat, who not only speaks both
English and $chinese, but also understands China far, far better than I ever
could. And if you're wanting someone who can speak the language, a deep
understanding of the culture is obviously also desirable.

~~~
icebraining
OTOH, for the same reason, you could be hired by Chinese firms looking to sell
in Australia.

------
forkLding
I'm of Chinese ethnicity but been in the West since birth and I've seen this
kind of behaviour before even among friends, but I dislike the author's
constant mention of the Chinese Communist Party as why Chinese kids isolate
themselves, it's not a causal relationship. Just because Trump is president of
America doesn't mean all Americans are against immigration. In the end, these
are just kids who feel a bit left out and different.

~~~
microcolonel
> I'm of Chinese ethnicity but been in the West since birth

It's not about ethnicity, it's about culture.

People who have grown up in China (in my experience) have a completely
different mindset. Speaking about something as simple as freedom of speech, or
the concept of citizenship through naturalization, or the idea that a poor
nation (America) prospers with liberty rather than having to grow before they
can have it (the actual excuse the party gives for what we consider tyranny),
could be difficult with some people fresh out of China.

I have had long conversations with people who have grown up in China about
things like The Party silencing (often imprisoning) dissenters, and
controlling Chinese nationals even when they are abroad; typically they will
justify the actions of The Party by saying that the Chinese people need to be
controlled right now because they're not rich/developed enough yet, and that
liberty will come later. When I say that the United States started with
squalor and deliberate liberty, then developed into a nation which is stronger
than China with a fraction of the population, it falls on deaf ears.

~~~
dragonwriter
> It's not about ethnicity, it's about culture.

Ethnicity _is_ culture. (That is, ethnicity is the state of belonging to a
group with a shared cultural identity.)

------
analyst74
The rich Chinese kids probably want to make some American friends, but they
also expected a high social status where people cater to their needs and
conveniences.

But the American kids only know how to deal with foreigners admiring the
American way and looking to assimilate into American culture, plus, catering
to foreigners is not really in the dictionary of the mightiest country.

Talk about expectation mismatch.

------
femto
Seeing the parallels with Australia [1] [2], I'd suggest that the Chinese
Student and Scholar's Associations are exacerbating the situation for Chinese
students. The CSSA's influence puts the locals on the defensive and make the
Chinese students the "meat in the sandwich" in the battle for influence.

[1] [http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-04/the-chinese-
communist-...](http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-04/the-chinese-communist-
partys-power-and-influence-in-australia/8584270)

[2]
[http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2017/06/05/4678871.ht...](http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2017/06/05/4678871.htm)

------
classybull
The isolation aspect is.. problematic, yes. But I'm much more worried about
the cheating aspect. Its a fairly routine occurance that if we're interviewing
an East Asian, they'll contact current Asians working in our department and
ask for the answers to the interview questions, with absolutely no shame.

------
goobynight
It's not alienation; it's isolation. Trust me. I even asked a few.

~~~
fellellor
What's the difference?

~~~
elefanten
I'm guessing that alienation = imposed upon you, isolation = voluntarily self-
imposed.

~~~
majewsky
Not a native speaker, so can anyone please conform these connotations? I would
expect "isolation" to be neutral on the "imposed <-> self-imposed" spectrum. I
would call self-imposed isolation "solitude".

~~~
yathern
Native speaker - I have the same gut instinct on the connotations. But, the
term 'isolationism' refers to an intentionally policy of isolating oneself (a
nation, presumably). Solitude is close too - but I think would mean complete
separation from everyone, even like-minded people. Like Superman has his
fortress of Solitude, and it's not filled with other Supermen. As far as I
know.

~~~
majewsky
That's actually a great premise for a Superman spinoff.

------
sjg007
I see students who come from another country. That they form a community is
not strange. It is a big risk to stretch oneself. Hopefully they don't miss
out on the opportunity to study and learn and incorporate into their lives
view something unique and rare beyond just academic skills. That's a special
opportunity.

Self reliance is a good skill to learn. A University gives you a framework, an
education as well as space to figure that out. Those who cheat only cheat
themselves in the long run. Those who find competition unfair only cheat
themselves as well. Education is not zero sum. In addition you should strive
to become an informed citizen and increasingly today a citizen of the world.

Not everyone will do this and that's ok. Some will, some won't and some of
them will change the world.

------
santaclaus
Seems like a good opportunity to invest in luxury car dealerships in Iowa

------
aphextron
>SORRY, YOU NEED TO ENABLE JAVASCRIPT TO VISIT THIS WEBSITE.

Sorry, no I don't.

~~~
jccalhoun
yep, I opened up the inspector, deleted the div covering the content and read
it just fine...

~~~
bumblebeard
Wow, that's just extra obnoxious then. I wonder why they go to the trouble of
breaking their website just for people who disable JS. Ads maybe?

------
sallyfour
I hate everytime this comes up on hackernews.

