

Ask HN: I want to build a robot that cleans my bathroom.  - SMrF

I recently bought a robot vacuum and I've never had cleaner floors. Now all I can think about is building a robot that cleans my bathrooms. So I'm going to build one.<p>I'm a programmer but I don't have a background in robotics. My question is on a scale of 1-10 how impossible is this? Please know I don't really care if it's impossible. The worst case scenario I end up with a pile of AI and robotics knowledge, and who doesn't want that?<p>Here is the scale:<p>1 -- I just need to buy a kit and throw it together with some Python<p>10 -- I need a PhD in robotics so I can secure a research grant to develop robotic vision hardware and software.<p>I figure I will place it in a bathroom and it will:<p>-- Identify loose objects and move them out of the bathroom<p>-- Identify all of the surfaces that can be cleaned, e.g. clean the bathtub, not the walls.<p>-- Manipulate the toilet lids to clean under the lids, etc.<p>-- Be tall enough or have a long enough arm to clean the entire shower.<p>-- It needs to be mobile enough to move around the bathroom, into the tub, etc.<p>-- Put everything back in the room where it was when it's done.
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HeyLaughingBoy
[edit] I just noticed "seven" said basically the same thing I did.

Like the other poster below, I've written code for electromechanical
automation long enough to have some idea of what you're in for.

First consider cost effectiveness: you can hire someone for $30/hour to clean
your house. That covers the bathroom and probably another room or two. Nothing
you're likely to build will beat that for a few years.

Second: you're looking at it from the "wrong" perspective. Instead of building
a robot to clean the bathroom in the way you specified, it's probably easier
to build a bathroom that's designed to be cleaned automatically. Imagine towel
racks that rotate into the walls to keep them safe, vacuum-augmented drains in
the floor, water proof floors and walls and a rotating wash head that can
descend from the ceiling dispensing high pressure hot water and detergent.
Combine that with high volume air vents, and you can clean the room in less
than a minute.

Now, if we venture back into the realm of feasibility, why not a version of
the Roomba that only does the floor, but has a scrubber, wet vacuum and washes
with hot water and soap. Floor's usually the dirtiest area anyway and you can
build that kind of cleaner for a few $100.

A maid would still do the job better and cheaper, though.

~~~
SMrF
I considered a maid but decided it wasn't for me. I was having a hard time
finding someone I trusted to enter my house when I'm not there. Then if I did
find someone, I figure the turnover for maids is pretty high so I'd be
searching again a year later. A maid service is out. They are underpaid and
being taken advantage of in too many cases for me to even consider it.

There is a Roomba that sanitizes floors exactly as you described it. It's
called a Scooba. I'm getting one.

The bathroom you describe is pretty sweet. It's like the bat cave of
bathrooms. I don't think my wife would go for it, plus we rent so that would
likely tick off the landlord...but I have no idea why public bathrooms don't
do this.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
>but I have no idea why public bathrooms don't do this.

IIRC the toilet cubicles in London that descend into the ground have this sort
of cleaning system, basically the toilet and wash hand basin are mounted in a
"McWash" and the whole things gets jetted down and dried after use (I don't
think it would be after every use, just perhaps once a day).

Wet rooms would be perfect for this sort of concept.

~~~
gcheong
Public toilets in San Francisco go through a self-cleaning cycle but they
don't always work as well in practice as in theory:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBF-62UXn8Y>

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retroafroman
I don't have a real robotics background, but I do work in automation, so I
have a pretty decent grasp on machines that do things. I'd put this at a 9 on
the impossibility scale. I base this mostly on the fact that robotics and
automated machinery is usually very specific to a certain task. However, if
you change your thinking from "a robot that cleans for me" to "machines that
clean different surfaces" then the problem becomes much easier, probably
around a 5 on your scale. Think a Roomba for the floor, an automatic shower
cleaner for the shower, etc. It's a lot easier to make machines that do one
very specific, repeatable task rather than a general purpose robot (which is
probably why they aren't very common). Microcontrollers are dirt cheap and
easily programmable, so I see your best route to getting a cleaner bathroom to
break up the specific tasks to dedicated machines. That also has the benefit
of breaking the development into smaller and more easily managed chunks.

~~~
SMrF
Interesting. So I would have:

Toilet cleaner, tub cleaner, shower cleaner, floor cleaner, counter cleaner,
mirror cleaner, etc...

The big drawback to this is that's a lot of robot maintenance. The vacuum is
pretty easy, I just dump the dirt into a garbage can when I get home. Add five
more robots for each bathroom... I will have to think about this.

~~~
seven
I always pictured my solution to this problem like this:

* Everything that is not allowed to get wet or is loose, is stored in a safe place.

* Some 'high-pressure cleaner things' at strategic locations.

* A big fan and a hole in the ground.

~~~
retroafroman
This would probably be my solution as well. Although not nearly as sexy (or
fun to create) of a solution as a robot, it would sanitize quite well.

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bigohms
Need a visualization system to interpret the current status of the 3D space,
id tasks, prioritize and execute.

The configuration and the space consumed by the Robot will be the most
significant challenge. Need a customized trussing system to enable the robot
to move in the 3D space of a bathroom. Most efficient would be a track-based,
ceiling housed system--depending on the size of the bathroom--think claw games
you see in arcades. This would be a semi-perm install however.

Need a tooling system on a central locomotion/power actuating system. If using
one central robot system, the tooling system will allow you to change "heads"
between the specialized tasks of lifting lids vs spraying disinfectant vs
wiping around corners.

~~~
SMrF
What if it's not mounted in the ceiling? What about legs/tracks that move the
arm to where it needs to go. I was thinking a subsystem that identifies
object, e.g. "there's the toilet" or "there's the bathtub", then moves the
cleaning system closer to the object to be cleaned.

I have a feeling this puts me closer to a 9 on my scale, but then again I feel
like there are robots that do this subtask already? Identify target -> move to
target. Plus I could cheat and put some sort of clue (RFID/infrared/big shiny
sticker), on each object. Then it's just a matter of moving to the right spot.

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Scott_MacGregor
Maybe think about building separate robots for each task (tub, etc...) that
can be permanently attached to wall or the ceiling near its work spot. Tasks
could be accomplished using special arms for each sub-task. A lifting arm, a
chemical spraying arm, etc...

It would take the "where am I" "where is the target" out of the robots
equation. You could simply hardcode the desired movements into the robot. Then
if you wanted to sell them you could build a learning routine into the code so
the public could easily use it after bolting it to the walls in their houses.

~~~
SMrF
I gather this is how industrial robots work? I get a robot with a clean slate
and then I guide it through the first few attempts at a task, then it does the
same thing over and over again by itself.

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curt
The manipulation is going to be near impossible at your price point. Remember
for each articulation you'll need a motor unless you build a flywheel
assembly. That adds to the price really quick.

The programming, if you're just doing it for a single defined bathroom isn't
that hard. It's when you get into 'all' bathrooms that the complexity
increases exponentially.

~~~
SMrF
I would pay $5,000, perhaps more, to never clean my bathroom again and always
have a clean bathroom. My budget is a little bigger for a hobby project. I
figure $10,000 - $20,000 for me to prototype something, that's including
failures, etc. over 2-3 years. I have no idea how much motors cost, but I'm
getting the idea that they are pricey.

Edit: if it's more than this it's not a deal breaker, I just have to rope
someone else in, spread things out over more years or something more creative.

~~~
curt
You might be able to do it at that price for everything but the toilet.
Instead of going big, the design I would use (after only thinking about it for
2-3 minutes) would be to mimic an insect. Go really small and have it be able
to adhere to the surface and clean as it went (tub, glass, floor, etc). Use a
laser/camera to analyze the surface. The key would be to keep the center of
gravity as close to the wall as possible.

On the large side, I would go with a pivoting telescopic arm with variable
cleaning instruments. Use a counter weight to balance the robot.

~~~
ph0rque
How about a combination of the two? A telescopic arm positions its payload
over the given cleaning target, and releases a small cleaning robot tethered
on a string. The "spider" has the tech to minutely go over the surface of the
target and clean it, while the arm has only the "macro" capabilities.

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ippisl
You can use self cleaning coatings , and then using low pressure flow of water
you can clean stuff.

Then you can use a robot walking on the ceiling(mounted/using vacuum) on the
ceiling , that can control the angle ,direction and force of water , so you
know water flows only down ( assuming your floor is water resistant).

Then you use some scooba like robot to clean the water from floor.

you might even spare the robot , and just use some water pipe the pushes water
down , and stick it to places you want the water to flow down to , before you
want to clean.

moving stuff from the bathroom: i think that in general "moving stuff" is
quite complex. but if the stuff you want to move is is placed on removable
plastic surfaces , that have some sorts of easy visual structures to ID by
robots(maybe even a small barcode) , this becomes much easier for the robot.

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andrewtbham
i googled and found this cool robot that cleans your bathroom... sorta like a
pool cleaner robot.

<http://www.inewidea.com/2009/08/12/8900.html>

~~~
SMrF
This looks like it's just a mockup/idea, but intriguing nonetheless. I thought
about this approach. I wondered how well a suction system would work and it
seems like a failure equals a broken robot.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
>I wondered how well a suction system would work and it seems like a failure
equals a broken robot.

Have the bot mounted on a tether like a pendulum lamp, it pays out an
umbilical, Mission Impossible stylee, and when it reaches the floor it moves
on suction cups. It basically belays (sp?) itself like an inertia reel
climbing harness. Or optionally it could reel in the line if it "feels" itself
begninning to fall. Not infallible but should help.

Or give it airbags?

~~~
brudgers
Mount the Bot on a dual axis cable system similar to a Skycam.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skycam>

Feed high pressure water and cleaners from overhead.

Allow the bot to move vertically.

Hot air blower for drying.

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jmeyers
Scrubbing Bubbles has an automatic shower cleaner.
<http://www.automaticshowercleaner.com/index.asp>

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decadentcactus
I just have to say, since I don't know if you want the robot for the utility,
or to just say you built one, but it'll probably be cheaper to hire a maid :P

