
Mathematics: The only true universal language - muon
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126951.800-mathematics-the-only-true-universal-language.html?full=true&print=true
======
IsaacSchlueter
Interesting article, but lines like this always make me groan:

    
    
        The aliens would, like us, be astonished by
        the patterns in our shared cosmos and by the
        effectiveness of mathematics in describing
        those patterns.
    

Why should we assume that any intelligent life form should have a psychology
that is human-like in any way whatsoever? You can make the case for
mathematical sophistication; but _astonishment_? I mean, if there are
conceptually sophisticated aliens out there (which is a _huge_ "if" that we
have no evidence for or against), who's to say that they even have such a
state as "astonished"?

Maybe they're sitting on their planet right now, and some uninformed and
unimaginative journalist in their species is writing in their language:

    
    
        The aliens would, like us, take the patterns
        in our shared cosmos completely for granted,
        and find it utterly unremarkable that mathematics
        are effective in describing those patterns.
    

Just say NO to humans in funny suits!

------
tokenadult
"An interesting possibility, which I think should not be dismissed, is that a
"true" fundamental theory exists, but that it may just be too hard for human
brains to grasp. A fish may be barely aware of the medium in which it lives
and swims; certainly it has no intellectual powers to comprehend that water
consists of interlinked atoms of hydrogen and oxygen. The microstructure of
empty space could, likewise, be far too complex for unaided human brains to
grasp."

That's a distinct possibility. Further mathematical research might still allow
considerable refinement in describing what a correct fundamental theory does
NOT imply.

~~~
jbert
That's the nice thing about the "shoulders of giants" though.

By and large, scientific progress is cumulative. The cutting edge of quantum
theory a few decades back is now undergraduate-level.

Yes, there are probably theoretical limits to human understanding, but the
analogy with fish breaks down because fish don't (as far as we know) have
cultural accumulation of knowledge.

~~~
nazgulnarsil
accumulation of knowledge is different from a the possibility of a fundamental
difference in the way reality works and the way our evolved brain works. see
"wave/particle duality" for the simplest example of something that might be
totally obvious to another type of intelligence.

------
jimfl
Mathematics is a human language. It reflects the human mind, as well as the
human condition, and has already been shown to be less than universal (i.e.
that there are true statements which cannot be arrived at via method of proof
given axioms).

Human mathematical intercourse is generally couched in cliche (since most
humans aren't particularly fluent), and is shot through with concepts that
other advanced civilizations are likely to find violently stupid (e.g.
infinity).

~~~
jimfl
Also, Humans and Chimpanzees are very similar, and yet we can't use the
universal language of mathematics to communicate with them. Dolphins and
Octopus are akin to us in intelligence; no spikka math.

Alien lifeforms are likely to be order of magnitude radically different from
us protein self-assembling macromachines, with a different body plan, and
different perception mechanisms, to the point where we might not even
recognize them as lifeforms. It does not stand to reason that they would be
able to make anything of our chirps and whistles.

