
Ocean Warming Is Accelerating Faster Than Thought, New Research Finds - jbegley
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/climate/ocean-warming-climate-change.html
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njarboe
“We are warming the planet but the ocean is not warming evenly, so different
places warm more than others,” said Dr. Zanna. “And so the first consequence
will be that sea level will be different in different places depending on the
warming.”

I don't understand this statement. To me the statement means that some places
in the ocean will warm faster than others and those local places will have
local sea level rises bigger than elsewhere due to the local warming causing
water expansion. Sea level is determined by many things, mostly gravity, but I
don't see how a local volume increase will last very long at all (ie it will
dissipate at the speed of sound in water. Like a tsunami but really small and
continuous). Misquoted perhaps?

Truly, only Gell-Mann amnesia allows me to keep reading the news. Probably
worth stopping.

~~~
calebsurfs
Sea level rise has regional variation due to the gravitational pull of the
melting ice. When polar ice melts, there is less gravity at the poles so
equatorial regions see higher sea level rise.

[https://sealevel.nasa.gov/understanding-sea-
level/regional-s...](https://sealevel.nasa.gov/understanding-sea-
level/regional-sea-level/ice-mass-loss)

~~~
njarboe
True. Unfortunately the quote does not mention gravity or melting ice at all.
The two sentences are about the ocean warming and the differences in sea-level
depending on how warm the local ocean is. This is just wrong (99.9% sure, but
would update my view with some strong evidence). With a PhD in Earth Science
and a Bachelors in Geophysics I am just sad when wrong ideas get expressed as
the truth from scientists.

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neom
I don't know what to make of the "climate change is a scam to tax us for
carbon use by politicians" comments in the NYT article. Do people actually
believe that? My wife works for UNEP and some of the stuff she tells me about
climate change is truly terrifying.

~~~
crispinb
There really is nothing too bizarre for some people to believe. Just one daft
example I came across this morning:
[https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/jan/09/flat-
earth-c...](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/jan/09/flat-earth-cruise-
nautical-navigation)

In relation to the downsides of so-called 'economic growth': when you add
personal fear to modern society-wide myths and more than a century of
compulsory corporate propaganda, etc, you get a pretty potent brew of
motivated miscognition.

~~~
neom
I wonder why it actually matters to these people if the earth is flat or not?

~~~
crispinb
An interesting question, but I don't think it is specific to flat-earthers.
Attachment to ideas is a human characteristic - hence the panoply of
institutions and disciplines intended to circumvent it in science, journalism,
etc. The idea flat earthers are attached to happens to be a particularly silly
one, but the attachment itself is nearly universal.

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carboy
I think by the time the scientists were able to detect global warming/climate
change it was already too late to fix it.

Unless someone invents s technology that can scrub 100M metric tons of green
house gases from the upper atmosphere, there is no chance of stopping what has
been set into motion. I also think it’s going to accelerate much faster than
any of the models predict. My brother is a climatologist and he’s been telling
me I’m nuts for years, over the holidays he told me that he now thinks I’m
right, and he’s scared for the future of his grand children.

~~~
crispinb
> I think by the time the scientists were able to detect global
> warming/climate change it was already too late to fix it.

Technologically, that's probably not true. Thatcher, for example raised alarms
in the political/public sphere based on advice from government scientists in
the late '80's IIRC. A lot could have been done in the last 30 years.

Politically/sociologically though, you're probably right. Views on economic
growth, the nature of the good life for humans, the relationship between the
real ('nature') and virtual ('economy') worlds, public and private goods, etc,
had all become sclerotic & fixed as invisible myths by that time.

------
v_x_zebert
I never believed the doomers deep down but the seemingly exponential rate of
dystopic meta analysis this year is making me legitimately worried.

And not worried about our grand kids more like worried about actual tangible
societal collapse that will affect everyone, also "rich" people like myself in
western societies.

For me it started with a curiosity this summer ending in the realisation that
the official IPCC report is literally a tech fantasy while being pretty much
greenwashed by various state players because of industry pressure.

Then reading about all the multiplying factors not even taken into account,
which much to my dismay are all slowly beginning to be proven one by one these
months.

The albedo effect, methane clathrate guns, permafrost thaws, reversal of ocean
currents, the list of factors that aren't even modeled in the ever more dark
forecasts just goes on and on.

I honestly don't know what to say or do anymore. It's like this knowledge has
washed away all of my dreams, entrepreneurial spirit and will to play the
capitalist game - I still "ride the tiger" though so relax your downvotes.
Also I try to help where I can, but it's freaking bleak.

It's pretty much over in 5-10 years as I see it now. When a critical mass in
the economic intelligentsia realize that the debt bubble won't get postponed
because growth will be stunted much earlier than "anyone foresaw".

I urge anyone that doubt these claims to read up on the reports of the last
year - then realize how much of joke the IPCC is.

One example from my country is here:

[https://news.ku.dk/all_news/2018/08/planet-at-risk-of-
headin...](https://news.ku.dk/all_news/2018/08/planet-at-risk-of-heading-
towards-irreversible-hothouse-earth-state/)

Endless more examples here:

[http://www.fasterthanexpected.com/blog/](http://www.fasterthanexpected.com/blog/)

EDIT: and to the people downvoting, please do explain why I am melodramatic
idiot and not a realist. I really rally hope I am wrong but it's hard after
actually reading this years reports ;(

~~~
fouc
IPCC report is pretty significant for raising awareness, I wouldn't go around
calling it a joke. Even if it is on the conservative side.

~~~
v_x_zebert
It's a huge joke because climate scientists for years have said it was to
conservative, and each report is "censored" because of industry pressure from
within certain countries.

It's a Joke because it's a complete freaking fantasy. All models in it are
built on the basis of deus ex machine like tech fixes and singularity like
tech events that are going to happen within 10 years - none of which exists in
reality.

Seriously who wouldn't call a companies future forecast report a complete joke
if it built on the fact the said company would magically invent the most
revolutionary technology ever built and capitalising on it?

This results in reports that give of the impression that "yeah it's not good,
but we will probably manage", while climate science consensus for years, and
increasingly is way, way more dark, and now bordering on the outright
dystopic.

This in turn is now leading us to a scenario where extinction is on the
horizon.

Listen, we are facing an extinction event, we could face it very soon,
collapse is right around the corner. There is absolutely no time left. IPCC is
greenwashing, it's hopium, it's berucratic circus while we are slowly sinking.

There is no time for compromise and political theatre. Everything is going in
the wrong direction pollution wise, and everything is happening faster than
expected.

As a side note I would have slapped myself and called me a doomer freak If I
read this 6 months ago.

~~~
nikdaheratik
Paralysing fatalism is just as bad as living in a denalist fantasy: both
embrace doing nothing rather than facing up to the difficult work that needs
done.

The IPCC report is not "a complete joke". Nothing in it requires the invention
of radical new technology. We're not talking about needing some kind of ATMOS
silver bullet. The reality is that there's alot of work to implement it, and
it may not get done on time, but it's also not impossible (yet).

The technical challenges of moving to a renewable energy economy are doable,
it's the political problem of forcing entire sectors of the economy worth
hundreds of billions of dollars to replace themselves or drop out of
existence.

~~~
merlincorey
> Paralysing fatalism is just as bad as living in a denalist fantasy: both
> embrace doing nothing rather than facing up to the difficult work that needs
> done.

Well said!

I am looking forward to the ride ahead - whether it's bumpy or far worse.

Hard work will be required from us as a society and personally as individuals.

