

Computer Glitch brings Melbourne traffic to a standstill - stratos2
http://www.news.com.au/national/traffic-chaos-deeps-as-citylink-admits-major-melbourne-tunnels-may-stay-closed-all-day-due-to-technical-malfunction/story-fndo4cq1-1226486984920
Traffic is at a standstill in Melbourne , Australia. A computer glitch has shut down the automated traffic signs, and in turn caused the closure of main tunnels and traffic routes. What's worse, they still don't know what is causing the software glitch!
======
beedogs
I've done work at CityLink, and their IT shop is just totally clueless. This
does not surprise me one bit.

This is the same company that was doing "mirroring" with Veritas Volume
Manager across a metro fibre link, rather than using their TrueCopy licenses.
For no reason. Two fibre cuts rendered their entire production database
(tolling) environment inoperable and nearly irrecoverable, on two separate
occasions. I worked about 36 hours straight getting everything back online and
was given a pair of movie tickets as a thank-you gift.

~~~
DrStalker
I've worked with State Transit in NSW (buses & ferries) and they were awful.
The most embarrassing part was the UNIX team and Windows team refusing to talk
to each other _even though they were only one cubicle partition away from each
other_ so any communication had to go up through two levels of management and
back down.

The scariest part was every single database of user information was
transformed from another database of user information; there was no source of
truth, just a great big never ending circle of import & convert that had
reached equilibrium and was now stable, provided nothing changed.

~~~
eckyptang
This is unfortunately normal in most public and corporate bodies. They are
afraid that if they talk then information will filter across and they'll lose
their remit or hold over the solution at hand.

It's silly really.

------
bootload
"... growing whisper within the security industry in Melbourne that there weak
security might have been breached from China. ..." ~
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4605335>

Any idea what type of systems they are running?

~~~
bennysaurus
In IT security here in Melbourne, first I've heard of it. Also why would
_network_ security specialists need to fly over 30 hours from Europe? We also
have some pretty capable teams on the ground here already.

Given the time frame of when it happened it's more likely a change that has
been borked in some way with difficulties in rolling back.

~~~
bootload
thx for the insight @bennysaurus. That's what I dislike about rumours,
especially with so little info and in areas I lack understanding.

~~~
bennysaurus
No trouble and agreed - rumours flying around like that don't help the
problem. If there was that level of security breech, outsiders would probably
do more than lock everybody out anyway.

Finding further information about it: looks like a core switch died with the
backup not kicking in. 12 hours to work around is a but much though.

------
redthrowaway
I'm having a really hard time seeing how this is any different than a traffic
light being out. If "me-go-you-go" fails, why don't they just have a traffic
officer out there directing traffic manually?

~~~
caf
The ABC has an article with a quote that explains it better
([http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-03/tunnel-closures-
cause-...](http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-03/tunnel-closures-cause-
traffic-chaos/4292378)):

    
    
      CityLink spokeswoman Kate Murphy says the tunnels had to close as a precaution.
    
      "It's not just overhead signs [that are not working], it's also our safety systems
      as well," she said.
    
      "For example, in the tunnels the deluge systems or the smoke extraction systems
      which we may use in an emergency, we can't actually operate those as well, 
      which is why we've had to take the dramatic measure of actually closing the
      tunnels."

~~~
rurounijones
The fact that their safety systems (Which anyone would expect to be separate
from the traffic control systems) are also affected makes me wonder about the
"computer glitch" angle.

~~~
Zenst
Like 99% of news reported computere glitch's it is some human mess up that
caused it, either by design or error or a homer moment were somebody pressed
the wrong button. Could even be somebody overloading the electrical phases in
the datacentre and tripped the UPS into action for it to barth at the
imbalance (seen that one).

This is why they say computer glitch and count on the majority of non
technical people to not question it.

~~~
dspillett
_> Like 99% of news reported computere glitch's it is some human mess up that
caused it_

If the system allowed the user to do something that impacted safetey in such a
way, then the computer glitch is that the computer _should_ stop that sort of
thing happening. Human error happens a lot and you have to account for it in
your designs.

Of course there are times when you have to trust the user because it is not
practical to do those tests (in which case the human should have procedure to
follow that mitigates the risk), and instances where the user wil override the
checks (when the machines say "I really don't think you should do X because Y,
click 'I understand the consequences of my propsosed action' to proceeed") -
then it is genuinly human error is something goes wrong.

------
sliverstorm
See, this is why we need to hurry up and deploy networked computerized
automobiles. We won't need stoplights anymore, so this kind of stuff won't
happen!

~~~
DrStalker
We will still need safety systems in tunnels though, and lack of those is why
they shut the tunnels down. Ignore the misleading quotes about the variable
limit signs not working, the real issue is the tunnel is not safe if there is
a problem like a fire of fume buildup.

~~~
josephagoss
I think he was being sarcastic, hinting that network computerized auto-
mobile's having a similar glitch would be truly devastating.

If mankind can't get a tunnels systems to work all the time, then what about
our plans to introduce computer controlled cars? A glitch could wipe out
millions of lives before being patched, and even then if they get patched that
also introduces huge areas of vulnerability.

I'm sure a stealth program that loads onto a car and waits till a date to kill
the occupants will be used by someone or a nation-state in the future.

~~~
jeza
A bicycle would be good in such circumstances!

~~~
DrStalker
Only if you're nimble enough to dodge all the cars trying to run you down.

------
wluu
According to a post on the citylink twitter account, "the Burnley & Domain
tunnels will begin the re-opening process @ 4pm"

<https://twitter.com/774melbourne/status/253371401212403712>

------
tomcorrigan
Apparently the reason the tunnels were closed was that Transurban could not
operate the emergency sprinkler system and smoke extraction fans. Surely it
would have been cheaper for Transurban to pay a few MFB fire trucks to be
stationed outside the tunnels and close a lane to guarantee them access in
case of an emergency. That way traffic could flow, tolls could be charged, and
nobody would be as upset. I am sure Transurban make more than the fire brigade
would charge them per hour.

------
tomjen3
Man that is going to be one epic lawsuit when you factor in the cost for each
of those commuter hours.

------
rocky1138
Bring every police officer on-duty, making a fair percentage of them as a
manual fallback to traffic direction. Have the officers play the part of the
traffic lights.

