
Ask HN: How do you explain what you do to your relatives? - davo11
I'm guessing others have this experience, the uncle who's the hardware salesman who thinks your sitting at home for the last 12 months and is loud about it, the relative who just nods and looks a bit sad when you tell them what you're doing. All folk who know nothing about startups, IT and what the process is, and with christmas coming I'm dreading it.<p>Has anyone hit on a magic formula to explain what you're doing in your startup so they'll leave you alone and stop suggesting maybe you can get a job in uncle bob's shop? / you did so well at school / and so on.
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fallentimes
Just had this happen to me over Thanksgiving and it went something like
this...

 _Grandma:_ What the heck is a TicketStumbler? Are you still just playing at
the computer all day?

 _Me:_ Oh, have you been to our site Grandma?

 _Grandma:_ No.

 _Me:_ Well Grandma, have you ever heard of Expedia, Kayak or Orbitz?

 _Grandma:_ No.

 _Me:_ What about Bizrate or Pricegrabber?

 _Grandma:_ No.

 _Me:_ Hmm...well essentially what we do is take sports & concert tickets from
all over the internet and put them on one website. So instead of going to
multiple websites you can just go to one. You know how you put all your recipe
cards in one place? Well we do that, but with tickets.

 _Grandma:_ Oh I see. Well, that's nice dear; would you like a beer while you
work? Or how about some more candy?

 _Me:_ I love you Grandma.

~~~
loire280
Ha, you're lucky. My grandpa managed a few programming projects in the
accounting industry during the 70's/80's. Every time I tell him about
something I'm working on, he tells a long story about how he either invented
or pioneered the concepts behind that project.

------
mattmaroon
Just do what I did, play poker for a living for 5 or 6 years first. Then
compared to that, a startup is "doing something with your life".

~~~
snowbird122
Speaking of poker, I was once playing poker in vegas when the guy sitting
beside me asked me what I did. I replied that I was a "technology consultant".
He looked confused. I tried to explain that I wrote software to solve problems
in the home automation industry. He thought hard for a moment and a light bulb
went off in his head and he sat up and said, "oh computers!". I resigned that
I did "computers", and the moment was over.

Just goes to show how the whole world isn't technical.

~~~
mattmaroon
The people you meet at mid-limit poker tables are the most genuinely
reflective sample of the middle-class and up segment of our country that
you'll ever find. It's weighted male (though less heavily than it use to be)
but you definitely run into all types.

There's a huge digital divide among poker pros. Most tend to either be younger
guys like me who use computers as a tool to improve our game (ICM Calculators,
equity calcs, stat tracking, etc.) and the old road-gambler types who still
think poker is just about reading people. Of course poker is such a
mathematical game that the second group is at a tremendous disadvantage,
except for the few who've adapted.

------
answerly
Two techniques I've used in the past:

1) Figure out the "regular" job that is most directly related to what your
startup does and say you do that. For example, I have largely been involved
with ad supported startups, so most of my relatives think I work at an ad
agency.

2) If you have big clients, partners or vendors that you think your relatives
have heard of you can say something like, "I work with company X". The fact
that you have some relationship with a company they have heard of is typically
good enough for them to think you are doing something right.

That being said, your non-technical family members are also a great audience
on which to practice refining your pitch. If you can figure out how to explain
what your startup does to your family, then you can surely explain it to
users, clients, investors, etc.

------
gills
I tell them I'm starting a business. I explain in fairly vague terms what pain
I'm trying to alleviate.

Family and friends usually get it and they are very excited and supportive (of
course, some family members are artists and independent contractors so
'startup' probably sounds less risky than it should).

Not surprisingly, it's the bigco lifers we run into at holiday parties, who
were always too afraid to take the plunge, that say 'I know a guy who's hiring
if you want a job.' I tell them something like 'thank you for letting me know,
but my plate is full with my business'...what I really want to say is 'I'm not
__*ing unemployed, you jackass, and I'm working harder than you ever have or
will!"

------
callmeed
Generally it's just "I write web software for X industry"

Funny story: I was on plane and got to talking to the guy next to me. He asked
what I did and I told him (the above line basically). He was thoroughly
enthusiastic and kept asking all sorts of questions. I finally got around to
asking what he did. He said "Oh, I'm a test pilot for Lockheed Martin" ...
Never could figure why he thought my job was cool.

~~~
run4yourlives
Most likely a geek at heart. Test Pilots are basically hackers anyway.

~~~
quantumhobbit
In mindset and curiosity yes, but to a woman in a bar the equality operator
returns a 0.

~~~
beastman82
And you wonder why

------
tlb
The reaction you get has nothing to do with what you say, and everything to do
with the way you say it. If you act apologetic, they'll be sad for you. If
you're enthusiastic they'll be happy for you.

A fellow I know is a financial planner. Yawn. But I watched him explain what
he did to a woman he was trying to pick up and, damn, it sounded exciting and
noble. He helped people achieve their long term dreams and become independent.

So be kind to your family. Give them a Christmas present and make them all
happy by telling them how you've got the greatest gig in the world writing
software to make the world a better place. You might be surprised how much it
changes things.

~~~
davo11
I dunno, it's more like I've fallen off the end of the world. Previously I was
a corporate consultant, so I did incomprehensible things but I worked for a
large company so it must make sense. Now I do incomprehensible things but not
only that I do them in an incomprehensible way, and I'm enjoying it, it must
be evil somehow (irish catholic background), but I'll take on the many
suggestions here and try them out.

------
Anon84
_You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your
grandmother._

\-- Albert Einstein

~~~
mixmax
A. Einstein must have had an unusually insightful grandmother, or else his
ability to explain relativity theory must have been unsurpassed.

And erwin Schrodinger's grandmother must really have been something. It took
me two wellwritten books just to get a general grasp of what he was doing.

~~~
cperciva
I think if you asked Einstein, he would probably have told you that he didn't
really understand relativity.

~~~
Herring
Well lucky for us all he wasn't publishing in his grandmother's journal. If
having powerful expressive models isn't "understanding" then maybe it's best
we leave this concept to message boards.

------
auston
I usually just roll with "Im a computer programmer". That seems to work.

~~~
silencio
Recently I've tried not to say any variant of programming or development or
engineering on anything (web, mobile, desktop), nor that I've majored in
computer science from the moment I started college. What inevitably happens if
I do say so is family and friends of family end up asking me to work on their
website|fix their computers|help them with something barely tech-related like
their car's satellite radio, and usually for too little money. I never
understood why, since I never ask for favors from them, but shrug.

I'd be glad to help some of them out when I have the time and interest, but
there is no way in hell I want to churn out a full out custom inventory system
for their business for $200. And yes, someone has actually asked me for that
at that price before. My jaw just dropped.

~~~
jwilliams
> _I never understood why, since I never ask for favors from them, but shrug._

This happens to practically everyone - Doesn't matter if you're a Doctor,
Laywer, Mechanic, Banker...

~~~
silencio
Oh I'm fully aware people do do this all the time and it happens to pretty
much anyone with any kind of job. I'm wondering why people believe their
relatives would be willing to do a favor in the first place purely based on
relation and even sometimes with the assumption they wouldn't mind doing it at
a discounted rate because of that. I'm sure anyone who's spent enough time
with family talking about what they do have encountered that before.

~~~
staunch
My Mom's computer was acting up recently. She called me thinking I'd help her.
I told her how rude it was to just call me up expecting instant support. Then
I sent her my rate card, a simple NDA, and a standard short-term contract.
Really man, I'm with you, some people have such nerve!

~~~
silencio
aww I'm not that mean ;) my parents are entitled to all the free support they
want from me, and the same goes to close friends. however, a third cousin
twice removed that I didn't even know existed until recently shouldn't expect
the same :p

------
tdavis
I've basically given up trying to really explain it. I just say I own a
business that operates "on the Internet" and hope they stop asking questions
after that. My favorite quotes:

 _Dad:_ When you told me you were quitting school and moving to Boston to
start some Internet company I thought it was just a pipe dream. But, you made
me really proud.

 _Grandma 2_ : I heard your business is doing well. Of course I don't
understand what it is you do, but I'm proud of you!

No good quotes from my other Grandma; she can barely remember who I am anymore
:(

~~~
ahoyhere
Don't whine, you're lucky. My grandmothers didn't like me to start with and
now they're all dead.

~~~
tdavis
I wasn't exactly whining, but in the spirit of this idiotic argument, I'd say
you got lucky. They didn't like you, so no need to like them. Now they're
dead. You won.

------
timcederman
Better than trying to explain what you're doing with a PhD.

------
ejs
I tell people I watch jerry springer and wait for the mail for the part of the
day I am not asleep.

------
thomasmallen
What's so hard? You're a business owner and an entrepeneur. I always thought
people admired that, especially here in America.

~~~
davo11
I'm not in America - I'm in Australia, There are entrepenuers here but it's
not an accepted way of life like it seems to be in the US. If you have a shop
front / product it seems acceptable, but people seem to have a hard time
accepting that you sit at home writing software is work - and hard work, and
that you can make money from it.

It actually scares a lot of people it seems, maybe it's just my family.

~~~
ojbyrne
It's not just your family. In much of the world, people (most especially your
parents) will equate entrepreneurship with not having a job, scamming, all
sorts of negative associations. But it's your family, so they will be somewhat
forgiving. Show them what you're doing, point to the people in the world who
have done well (de-emphasize the billionaires, and emphasize the people who
created jobs for themselves). Be passionate. Like everything you do, you have
to sell it to them.

~~~
fallentimes
I think the word "entrepreneur" has so many negative connotations because it's
overused (at least in the States). Jobs are called entrepreneurial, employers
are looking for entrepreneurs and MLMs like Cutco & Mary Kay consider their
sales people entrepreneurs. It's sad.

I really like & use the titles cofounder or founder.

~~~
thomasmallen
I just say "I run a small web design business," although it lacks the edge now
that I'm employed as well :^)

I do think that it sounds a little off-base to call oneself an entrepeneur at
least in the DC area...very self-important.

~~~
fallentimes
I used to live in DC. Entrepreneurs were few & far between; paper shufflers
abound.

------
iamdave
As vaguely as possible.

"What do you do?" "I build things" "Like what?" "Things that no one really
needs but are willing to pay for" "Oh"

Versus

"What do you do?" "I work with computers" invariably "Oh great, I downloaded a
bunch of stuff that I really didn't even need just because the button told me
to and now I have a virus, can you fix it?"

to which my answer will be

"No because I'm out of your pay grade".

~~~
ssanders82
Why oh why did I read that last sentence as "No because I'm out of your gay
parade".

Why.

------
mixmax
I usually just avoid the subject - my dad is the only one who understands what
I'm doing and why, so I'll talk to him about it but usually noone else.

Bu don't worry I'm sure Einstein had some pretty tough times explaining to his
family what he did :-)

~~~
davo11
You're probably right. You'd think with all the marketing brains and intellect
here someone would have come up with an incantation.

------
dustineichler
This is a tough one to be honest, my parents are more impressed by the kid
down the street who repairs ipods etc... than me working as an sw engineer.
Most if they're anything like my family won't understand what they can't
see... that is until it makes the 'print media', where at least it's tangible.

------
jmtame
I usually just say I'm a drug dealer.

~~~
jcl
Do they then ask you for help with their drug problems?

~~~
jmtame
They ask me for a prescription.

------
sheriff
don't talk about whats. talk about why's.

it's good practice for your marketing. you need to talk to your market in
terms of how you're going to help them kick more ass. if you talk to your
relatives in terms of whom you help kick more ass, they are more likely to
give a shit.

~~~
t0pj
I'm gonna use that!

"I help $these_kind_of_people kick more ass!"

------
donw
Obligatory Penny Arcade (third panel):

<http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/12/31/>

------
bootload
_"... How do you explain what you do to Foo? ..."_

not something I've really thought of much... but at the supermarket early this
morning it went something like this:

ME _"Everyone is very cheery here?"_ (referring to singing employee - who
sings at 7?)

CHECKOUT _"Yes, she is quite happy always smiling."_

ME _"So they don't employ grumpy people? or are they just all cheery?"_

CHECKOUT _"No, they are all pretty happy?"_

ME _"Oh, I thought they would be tired (just after 7am and I'm dead tired) and
grumpy"_ (I'm tired, I'd be grumpy)

CHECKOUT _"So what do you do?"_

ME _"I write ...."_

CHECKOUT _"Ohhh (surprised)"_

ME _"... software."_

CHECKOUT _"Ah you're one of those 'computer nerds'?"_

ME _"Yeah... something like that."_

CHECKOUT _"That's a compliment you know."_

I should have just left it at writing.

------
mdakin
I think delivery is important. If you are showing enthusiasm while explaining
the different concepts and possibilities it's often infectious. If you can do
a demo-- awesome!

When dealing with money-focused people it helps to reassure them that you can
support yourself by consulting when needed.

Some people are very fearful and often think everything will always go wrong.
Those are the most difficult people to reach. I often give up once I detect
someone has that characteristic. Just sort of change subjects and find common
ground somewhere else that does not involve talking about risk, success and
failure.

------
netcan
Say you're starting a business or have a descriptive one line: 'making a ___
site'.

"Startup," "Entrepreneur" etc. is a loaded term. I think Australia & The
States are almost opposites in their reaction to these terms. I'm not born
Australian (5th year), & the term doesn't describe me, so maybe I'm not the
ideal person to advise here.

But I wouldn't venture further then 'starting a business.' I certainly
wouldn't describe myself as an entrepreneur. Australians like to tear the tall
trees to shreds. & that'd be like calling yourself a revolutionary poet.

------
zacharydanger
" _I push buttons all day._ " I break down programming into its most basic
physical function.

~~~
eru
Don't forget the coffee drinking!

------
psnajder
The things I do to my relatives are so awful, I can't ever explain, no matter
how many times you ask.

------
khafra
What I do to my relatives is difficult to explain.

My explanations of my work, though, vary with the comprehension I expect from
the listener. For my uncle, an engineer with more patents than I've had
drunken inspirations, I go in-depth into whatever has me most excited at the
moment. For my cousin, the horse trader and Counterstrike fan, I give a
general description of CND, bowdlerizing it of anything glamorous so I don't
get asked to teach him how to hack.

The more difficult query comes when I don't know the questor quite as well.
Unless the truth matters, and it usually doesn't, I'll take a peripheral
aspect of my work and practice my story-telling abilities.

------
delano
Try to think a level above what you're doing.

------
viggity
"I write computer programs. No I can't fix your computer"

------
azharcs
I really wish all my relatives read "Founders at Work" and understand the
people who start-up better. I get ridiculed for working in the night and
sleeping till noon and i get compared with owls and dogs for that but i always
think of myself as Batman when i work all night.

------
Jem
This reminds me of a conversation I had with a lady at the bank once.

Lady: "What do you do, then?"

Me: "I'm a web developer"

Lady: "Oh, so a web designer!"

Me: "Er, close, I'm a web developer - I make designs work"

Lady: "Oh, I get it! So like in Microsoft Word?"

Me: "..."

Thankfully, the majority of my family are computer literate and don't require
babying over the subject.

------
catone
It's amazing what drawing a paycheck can do. Once I started making a
respectable living as a blogger, my family stopped pestering me about getting
a real job or going back to school.

Of course, next up might be the startup thing... that'll be a whole new
battle.

------
flashgordon
I tell them I am in "Income Redistribution" - Gambling related software.

------
scott_s
"I make computers go fast."

(I'm a PhD student in high performance systems.)

~~~
t0pj
Sounds like you're a salesman. :)

~~~
scott_s
You might be surprised how much salesmanship has to go into writing academic
papers.

------
jjs
I shuffle bits... the customer shuffles bits... the banks shuffle bits... and
everybody's happy, as long as everyone's put the right bits in the right bins.

------
toddcw
Someone once gave me this bit of advice that usually seems to work for me:

"Sometimes a little inaccuracy can save a whole lot of explanation."

------
bayareaguy
I tell them what I hope to be the truth - I write software which helps
businesses run their business better.

------
icey
I just go with "I work in software". Nobody really cares to ask more than that
usually.

------
andrewhyde
I used to say "I draw things." Now it is "I make things."

------
noodle
fill it with commonly understandable phrases: i work in a new "small business"
as a "computer programmer" who does some "other stuff" too

------
thingsilearned
Move away from home to the bay area.

------
iheartrms
"I work with computers."

------
time_management
While not pertaining to relatives or holidays, here's my experience as
pertains to the social pull of various careers.

Graduate student.

0: "I'm a grad student." 1: (Deadpan/barely impressed.) "Oh. You must be
really smart." 0: "Don't worry. I'm not."

Analyst at a pharmaceutical consulting company.

0: "I'm a consultant." 1: "Oh." (Isn't everyone?)

Quantitative trader/developer at a hedge fund.

0: "I'm a trader." 2: "Oh." ++

Unemployed.

0: "I'm a treasure hunter." 1: _WTF?_ OR "I'm asking what you do for a job,
not..."

Working for a startup.

0: "I'm starting a tech company." 1: "Oh, cool!" 0: (Excited.) "Yeah, it's
fun. I'm using a ridiculously powerful programming language called Lisp. It
looks like this." (Points to some monstrosity of a macro such as ONCE-ONLY.)
1: "Uh, yeah..."

++ The use of 2 here is not a typo. Finance is not nearly as "sexy" as I
thought it would be before going in, and the standard-error descriptor is, in
fact, appropriate.

~~~
Tichy
I thought it is having lots of money that is sexy, not "finance".

~~~
time_management
Fair, but a talented young person in finance will, at least, have the
opportunity to make lots of money in the future. This means that a 23-year-old
trader ought to be especially a catch: buy cheap, sell dear.

------
safetytrick
I lay the bodies of my relatives in shallow graves.

I laid my relatives to rest years ago.

I don't have relatives.

My story changes from year to year.

I enjoy telling my story and explaining my business model to my family,
whatever I am excited about at the time is normally easy enough to relate to
something they do or understand.

