
Simulating gunfire in naval wargames (2016) - daddy_drank
http://wargamingmiscellany.blogspot.com/2016/02/simulating-gunfire-in-naval-wargames.html
======
cyberferret
Reading this, and looking at the pictures and discussions about range reminded
me of a time years ago (when I was a kid) reading the journal of a WWII combat
vessel captain.

He was captain of a large battleship (akin to the Bismarck or Tirpitz) and I
guess these ships were mainly used in long range stand off attacks, because he
would talk about seeing the muzzle flashes of enemy ships through his
telescope, then waiting _30 to 90 seconds_ to see where the shells would land
near/on his ship.

I was always enthralled by the fact that you knew shells were heading your way
bringing death and destruction, but you had to wait around a minute to see if
they missed you or they impacted your vessel, and in that time, you had to
plot an evasive manoeuvre as well as return fire solutions.

The distance and isolation of sea combat somehow makes it more haunting than
the land warfare equivalent of an artillery barrage.

~~~
sandworm101
When cannons were common on land it was not unussual to see cannonballs
bouncing across the field towards you. As they were subsonic, you also could
hear them coming.

~~~
RobertRoberts
After seeing this video I am not so sure those reports are accurate:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL1DkrYL70s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL1DkrYL70s)

~~~
cyberferret
I am thinking @sandworm is talking about the old round iron cannonballs (akin
to those fired from pirate ships etc) rather than the more modern explosive
projectiles that are shown in your video post.

That also reminds me of another story I read that was penned by a cavalry
officer in the 1800's. He said that the only time you could see a cannonball
in flight on the battlefield was when it was pretty much heading straight for
you.

He recalls an incident once when he met a fellow horseback officer in the
middle of a battlefield during a lull in combat, and while talking, the other
officer's horse rested its head against his leg. While chatting, he noticed a
black blur approaching in the sky out of the corner of his vision and
reactively flinched back, and a cannon ball brushed his collar and smashed
into the horse's head that was leaning against his leg, instantly killing the
poor creature.

~~~
IIAOPSW
Ah the classic story of the headless-horse man.

------
waste_monk
I remember reading about a model boating society that, instead of wargaming,
would create scale models of famous warships and fight them - the hulls would
be thin wood, and the turrets had motorised mounts and compressed air guns
capable of firing a metal pellet through the wooden hulls. The ships would
have less internal bulkheads (to account for the damage explosive shells would
cause) but would otherwise try to be as true to life as was possible given the
limits of technology (I don't think anyone was building gyro-stabilised gun
platforms, for example, as it was too hard to minituarize).

There was even a proposal to build larger scale ships that used small-calibre
handgun ammunition and sheetmetal hulls, but it was shot down (if you'll
forgive my pun) for being wildly unsafe and probably illegal (as I understand
civilians are generally discouraged from owning remote-controllable firing
mechanisms).

~~~
Something1234
If anybody has a link or video to this, I would be extremely interested in it.

~~~
nkurz
Model Warship Combat seems to be a good search term:
[https://www.google.com/search?q=Model+Warship+Combat](https://www.google.com/search?q=Model+Warship+Combat)

------
GlenTheMachine
Unless you've seen one up close it's hard to wrap your head around how big
naval guns are.

I work in a converted naval gun factory, built in WWII. They used to take the
main guns off battleships and reline them every hundred shots or so, and my
building was a huge machine shop set up to replace the linings.

The gantry crane used to take the guns off the railroad cars they were shipped
on is still in place. The hook of the crane is a solid piece of steel. It is
larger than my Honda.

~~~
killjoywashere
Great photo:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Uss_iowa_bb-61_pr.jpg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Uss_iowa_bb-61_pr.jpg)

notice the boats along the port side near the aft gun. And, forward of the aft
gun, and between the deck houses, are several grey rectangles. Each one has 4
Tomahawk missiles. Those "coffins" are roughly the size of tractor trailers.

One thing you'll notice: no humans. The shockwave will kill you.

~~~
hatsunearu
I incorrectly assumed the tomahawks would be on VLS launch platforms but no,
they're like surface launched or something. Took a while to look for those
"coffins" when I was looking for a square on the deck :P

------
protomyth
I remember being at Gen-Con in the 90's and seeing a game of Harpoon[1] going
on. It was pretty amazing seeing all of the ships they were using. Maybe not
as impressive as some of the Warhammer setups, but still pretty cool. I
remember talking to a few of the folks and they believed it was the best game
of this type. Larry Bond was also an author of some note.

1) [http://www.larry-bond.com/games.htm](http://www.larry-bond.com/games.htm)

~~~
cyberferret
I never played tabletop Harpoon, but the IBM-PC computer game Harpoon was one
of my favourites many decades ago. It was a game that highlighted the
devastative power of air superiority over pure naval engagements. A squadron
of soviet Blackjack bombers armed with Kitchen missiles could take out an
entire carrier group or ground base while staying out of reach of carrier
based fighters.

Wish there was a version of this game that runs in a browser or on modern
tablets.

~~~
mrguyorama
You could absolutely run Harpoon in like dosbox on an android tablet or such.

The modern version/remake/inspired product is "Command"
[https://store.steampowered.com/app/321410/Command_Modern_Air...](https://store.steampowered.com/app/321410/Command_Modern_Air__Naval_Operations_WOTY/)

~~~
MrMember
CMANO is great if you can get past the spartan graphics and UI (and to be
honest the target market for such games probably doesn't care much about the
presentation as long as the gameplay is solid). There's something uniquely
satisfying about watching military engagements play out as you direct the
units.

~~~
mrguyorama
Don't forget the rather high price for a "video game". I do find it
interesting that the group behind it distributes the database of unit
information that backs the actual game for "free" (it's just available, with
AFAIU, no hoops to jump through)

~~~
MrMember
$80 is pretty nuts and I don't think I would buy it for that much. I got in on
sale for I think $25.

------
jhbadger
Interesting how in these early wargames (see also H.G. Wells' "Little Wars"
from 1913) firing was simulated by a physical action while in modern games
this is generally settled by dice or other random number generator.

~~~
LoSboccacc
it lasted quite a while, it was around mid eighties that the love for gitzmo
faded and everything became a roll.

they getting back tho, at least looking at the Kickstarter trends in board
games.

------
jontro
Post is from 2016

~~~
dang
Added. Thanks!

