
Ask HN: Have you lived abroad for an extended period of time? Was it valuable? - refrigerator
Seems appealing to me but curious to hear others&#x27; experiences. Please share the details! Where were you originally based + where did you move to? What&#x27;s been good&#x2F;bad about it? In what ways did it change your perspective on various parts of your life?
======
gruturo
7 years and counting. Italy to Germany. Not going back. Everything works. You
get hired simply by having the right skills and coming forward - no need to
"know someone influential".

Weather sucks as bad as I had imagined (but this year's being amazing so far)

Food was a nice surprise - way better than planned.

Cost of living is actually lower, opposite of what I thought.

People.... many are much warmer and friendlier than I was preparing for. Very
nice surprise there too. Language may be harsh and many have this perma-grumpy
air about them, but when they wish you a good morning you can see in their
eyes that they actually mean it.

~~~
koevet
Berlin?

~~~
playing_colours
I doubt: “everything works” certainly cannot be said about Berlin.

~~~
candiodari
I think it may need to be judged from the baseline of Italy.

------
bsenftner
Back in '94 I was hired by Sony to be a developer for the first PlayStation,
during it's OS development. I was in Toyko for a few weeks with another role
at Sony, which I quit due to personality conflicts with my American boss, but
was rehired by Tokyo of Japan to join their OS team, and I spent 6 months
doing crunch time with their OS development team - I was the only Gaijin.

That was the experience of a lifetime: total immersion in a foreign culture
while having a serious duty to accomplish, plus a complete lack of Japanese
language or culture. Luckily, in my previous Tokyo stint the PSX OS team met a
series of game developers from various game companies around the world - a PSX
preview series of meetings, where the Sony team saw first hand some of the odd
personalities (goth / 90's super geek) the game industry had. So I, being a
fairly normal dude, was given a lot of latitude with my lack of Japanese
manners.

Overall, the perspective I gained was a great foundation for confidence to
pursue my dreams. There is so much human activity, practically anything one
wants to do can be found if one is willing to leave your culture for one
pursuing that dream without the American infrastructure we take for granted.

~~~
giovannibajo1
OT, but any way we can read stories about early PS1 OS development? That would
be some fantastic reading

------
biztos
US American living in Europe since 2009, this being at least my third time
round depending how you count it. Originally from Northern California and have
lived in different parts of Germany and in Budapest, Hungary.

It’s incredibly rewarding but also sometimes frustrating. If I can give anyone
any advice, it’d be:

1\. Learn the local language.

Nobody respects an expat who doesn’t make a proper effort to learn and use the
language. You might still have local friends but they will, and should, think
less of you if you lean on English too much.

2\. Go back home regularly.

It’s easy to lose perspective, especially if you’re often confronted with
distorted opinions (positive or negative) about the place you come from. I go
back to California every six months, and I recommend going at least once a
year, even if home is very far from where you live.

3\. Stay humble.

It’s natural to form opinions about your host country but it’s important to
remember you’re a guest, and that you don’t understand everything about the
locals no matter how well you speak the language or how long you live there.
That doesn’t mean you never get to complain about the obstinance of the
Elbonians, just keep it light. And try not to tell people how to vote. :-)

4\. Manage your expectations.

If you’re from the US and in tech you will most likely be making less money
and have fewer career opportunities than at home. That’s ok: you should be
aware of what else you’re getting from the experience and be satisfied with
that bargain. Techies live pretty well everywhere, so avoid thinking about
dollar figures or Gooface interviews. Unless you’re super into Gooface, in
which case go where they have offices.

My life has been greatly enriched by “going international” and I recommend it
to anyone with an open mind. I could imagine living in the US again, but I
can’t imagine viewing that as a permanent arrangement.

------
zamalek
South Africa to Seattle, almost one year.

The week that I landed my sedentary life ended. I don't think it was
necessarily the location (although the Seattliltes' active lifestyles are
certainly inspiring) but rather an excuse to grow. This has had the expected
knock-on effects, especially in terms of clarity of mind and mood. The
important things just work here - I want to deal with 1st world problems
(equality, rights, etc.) and not what I used to deal with ("gee there have
been many violent crimes in my neighborhood lately").

The bad has been friends. School and college are the best opportunities to
make friends and it's tough once you leave. I've been trying meetup.com, but
it's slow progress.

If you're on the fence, I say go for it! Put yourself in the mindset of growth
and make it happen when you land.

~~~
msangi
> If you're on the fence, I say go for it! Put yourself in the mindset of
> growth and make it happen when you land.

This is a very good point. When you move you have a blank slate and you get
the opportunity to turn your life into what you want it to be without having
to fight against your status-quo

------
daxfohl
Yeah (from US/Indiana), living and traveling. I spent a year on a "round-the-
world" air ticket, then a year teaching English in Korea, and then another
year traveling by bicycle with a couple 2-month stops (studying Arabic in
Yemen, Russian in Kyrgyzstan, Chinese in Taiwan).

And I'm not an "adventurer" in the normal sense at all. Just a computer dork
who wanted to try different things. I actually hadn't ridden a bicycle in a
decade prior to the moment I booked a guesthouse in Krakow that just happened
to be right next to a bike shop and I took it to be a sign. (I'd been
salivating over other people's bike touring blogs for a year or two but
thinking I'm nowhere near "adventurer" enough to do something like that).

Did it change my life? No, not really. I'm back in software at US big corp and
raising two ordinary kids in a house bigger than I need and griping about
taxes. I'm also the oldest person I know at my level at work (age 42 at level
64 msft).

Would I rather be at a higher level at work and miss out on those experiences
though? Not a chance. Do I wish I hadn't come back? Oh sometimes, but oh well.
Honestly being on the road is not all rainbows and unicorns either. There are
plenty of days you're sitting around wondering why you're there in some
guesthouse doing nothing and not back home "changing the world through
technology" or something.

I mean, it's a privilege. You're presumably above average IQ and born into a
wealthy country to less than horrible parents. It's not an opportunity most
have. But, we all live a few years and then die. So it's a bit of whatever.
Just try to spend some time doing what you enjoy. Don't die wishing you had.

Some random person once told me when I was young, "the purpose of life is to
make memories". I still haven't found anything wrong with that statement.

~~~
mezod
Your story is awesome. I just answer to say that I didn't like the "ordinary"
you used to define your kids. Grow them not to be ordinary, even if they are
just not ordinary to you.

~~~
daxfohl
I don't either. But fact remains, they're totally ordinary. Love princess
costumes and glitter and Disney no matter how much I try to nudge otherwise. I
just roll my eyes.

But I've found I can reconcile that by switching a word: "Grow them not to be
ordinary, even if they are just not ordinary to _themselves_ ". And that's
probably what it should be anyway. I guess....

~~~
ecthiender
But you can inspire them, your kids. Tell them your stories. Your adventures.
Your mishaps. How things are different in other countries.

Tell them about mountains, rivers and the seas. About different animals that
they can't see anymore. Tell them about how mankind came to be.

You can be their, potentially, biggest inspiration at this age (presuming they
are quite young).

PS: Sigh, I'm a hopeless romantic.

~~~
daxfohl
Yeah I just had to inspire one about how we shouldn't eat all the toothpaste
straight from the tube.

~~~
daxfohl
... Apparently wasn't inspiring enough.

------
ejrv
I'm much less anxious and more self confident since moving abroad. I now feel
like I could fairly easily move to- and live anywhere I choose to, which is
incredibly empowering. It's also given me some new sense of perspective, and
introduced me to some really cool people, foods, and customs.

I'm originally from The Netherlands; I've spent the past two and a half years
in Prague, Czech Republic. I moved to Canterbury in the UK two months ago
because I was becoming annoyed at not speaking the local language very well,
and simply needed a change of environments. I'll probably move somewhere
outside of Europe in the future.

I think the destination isn't all that important - I've mainly just gone to
places I found interesting, and ideally had friends near. I'd absolutely
recommend the experience, but do be aware that loneliness, isolation and
stress are real issues many expats encounter at some point when moving
somewhere new, and it's not talked about as much as it should be. I've found
it to be very much worth it though.

------
colordrops
Went to China at 30, became fluent in mandarin, saw the unbelievable
transformation of the nation, started 3 businesses, studied martial arts, met
hundreds of new people, including well known luminaries, and met my wife and
had a kid before I came back to the US after 8 years. The experiences there
forged me into a much better person, with the skills to land a very rare job
opportunity here in the states.

------
bane
Yes. Mostly in different parts of Europe and Asia. Incredibly valuable.

For me, I think of myself as fairly open to people and cultures, but after
stays in many countries I realized how closed my previous attitude really was.
Meeting and living in many places seems to have helped me be much more open to
differences in people, personalities and cultures.

If you stay longer than a long vacation, a very common experience (especially
in countries with very large language/cultural differences), is a weird
phenomenon where you start to _hate_ where you are and every tiny difference
or minor inconvenience becomes meltdown inducing. And then you'll get over it
and settle into your new life. This psychological wall is a make-it/break-it
moment for many expats and some people simply can't get through it and give
in. Don't! It's very character building and upon reflection a huge growth
opportunity that most people don't get a chance to develop.

Finally, I think it's given me a much better sense of perspective about how
and where my home country compares to others in various ways - favorably and
unfavorably. It's impossible to convey this to people who haven't experienced
living elsewhere themselves, so it can a bit frustrating to come back home and
hear the same ill informed opinions. Likewise, it can be frustrating to hear
about your home country being described by ill informed people in the
countries you are in.

------
svilen_dobrev
The farther/further u go (and for at least 2-3+ months, better 6-12+, relying
mostly on your self), the more you will know about yourself and your
compatibility with the new, and the old place. Things that have been
protruding a lot, in your "eyes" (both as negative and positive) at old place
might later seem negligible, and other things to become the true highest
mountain peaks. Same for the the new place, but only after u move
elsewhere/back.

Note: "farther" is not just geographical notion, cultural distance might be a
lot more overhelming. Think

[https://geerthofstede.com/culture-geert-hofstede-gert-jan-
ho...](https://geerthofstede.com/culture-geert-hofstede-gert-jan-
hofstede/6d-model-of-national-culture/)

[https://www.hofstede-insights.com/product/compare-
countries/](https://www.hofstede-insights.com/product/compare-countries/)

(Where to and from : .bg .au/3.5yr .bg/10yr .au/3m .bg/+, with few 1-3month
stays in other places in asia/europe)

And beware, after staying 3-4+years elsewhere it seems difficult to move back.
Some psychological frontier i guess.. YMMV.

have fun

------
smoe
I'm half Swiss half Finnish, working in Colombia for a bit over 3 years now.

The first year was a semi-sabbatical. I was traveling while on and off working
as a freelancer for companies back home. Needless to say, you don't need many
billable Swiss hours to have a good life in Colombia. So personally it was an
incredible year. All the beautiful places, meeting tons of people, reading the
books i didn't found time for before and most importantly not being tied to
daily business matters. But professionally I was stagnant for the most part.
Because I wasn't willing to commit too much time nor other things clients
expect like availability or short deadlines, I was mostly working on rather
trivial generic web development tasks. Code monkey work under palm trees. Also
I realized being a Freelancer is not for me. It basically means you are
running a business with everything that entails: Communications, marketing,
legal, accounting, project management, etc. Many of those I don't have
particular interest in or patience for. The year aptly did what it meant to
do. Taking a year off from 9-to-5 jobs while not having to spent savings. But
career wise I was pretty bored by the end of it.

The last two years I have been working for a startup in Bogotá that is part of
a company builder that creates businesses from scratch for the growing middle
class in Latin America. While I don't have that many exciting adventurous
stories about my personal life to tell at the moment, I do thoroughly enjoy
living here and work wise I have never learnt as much in so little time since
I started my career 10 years earlier. Exclusively communicate in foreign
languages. Vastly different market and mindsets than my country. Having to re-
assess things I though where "universal truths" just because I saw them over
and over again in Switzerland or similar nations. Balancing tech budget for
cloud services whose pricing is aimed at rich western countries. Dealing with
much lower end mobile devices and low quality networks.

So the whole 3 years have been extremely valuable personally and
professionally in terms of experience and knowledge gained. Money wise less
so. But I'm young enough and don't have family to take care of, that this is
not much of a worry for now.

~~~
jacquesm
Check out Medellin if you haven't done so already. There are quite a few
offices there of funded start-ups in the US and the EU.

~~~
smoe
I have been living 6 months in Medellín in the first year. While I love the
people, the climate and things being much better organized than elsewhere,
culturally I prefer Bogotá by quite a margin.

But the former is probably better to start in, if one wants to live in
Colombia or just work from here for a couple of months. The grey, rainy and
cold capital takes a bit more time to appreciate :)

~~~
jacquesm
I loved Bogotá, it's the largest city I've ever spent time in but it didn't
feel at all like that. At the time it wasn't the safest place to be in, it
should be much better today.

------
madhadron
I'm from southwestern Virginia, but I spent a month at a time for several
years with my family in Italy in my teenage years, mostly in the same small
town, and later lived in Lausanne, Switzerland for five years while working
for the École Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne. Mind you, my parents are
from the US, went to grad school in England, spent a lot of time on the
continent, and my (homeschooled) education reflects that, so it's hard to say
the effect on me.

I think the most valuable aspect has simply been experiences and viewpoints
that serve as counterexamples when I am thinking about how society is
organized.

------
ogoroddude
Russia to New York

I lived in New York for 5,5 months (the max period allowed on one continuous
stay on a B1 visa in the USA).

Cons: I wasted ~3000usd on rent

Pros: I, never having been outside former Soviet Union, flew straight to
another part of the world, without any connections, without friends, alone,
with some money that only appeared to be sufficient to be spent on rent and
food. I managed to rent a room (never done so before in my life), I tested if
I could find a job in NY (yea, guys, don't be hurt by this, this is illegal,
and I never actually worked while staying in the USA, so i didn't breach visa
terms, I was only testing the possibility of finding work there - and that was
very easy, I found a low-paid position on the second day of looking for it). I
was amazed by how much people in America respect your privacy, talked to some
people, developed a daily routine - not too sophisticated but still I managed
to survive some 7000 or so miles from home, and it wasn't too difficult and I
came to one of the main conclusions in my life - the world is much smaller
than I thought, and in order to fly anywhere and live anywhere you just need
some rather humble amount of money. This 'global thinking' replaced rather
depressive 'local thinking' framework I was thinking in previously and in that
regard now I am happy that I have realized that.

------
msangi
I'm Italian, from a very small village.

I had two 6 months period in the US and they definitely reshaped my way of
thinking and gave me a more pragmatic approach.

Now I'm living in the UK, mostly because London has a way better job market.
This is giving me the opportunity to live in a truly international
environment, to work on more interesting problems and with a better
compensation. The Brexit debacle is also giving me more perspective on why
being part of the EU is good and how having really bad politicians is not only
an Italian problem.

------
eyezick
Moved from U.S. to Netherlands 6 months ago, and will stay for at least
another year.

I moved for work, and I gained a cool new project to work on and new
adventures, but didn't have my family, friends, or any familiarity of the
culture.

It quite accustoms you to leaving your comfort zone, which is powerful and
awesome. And it forced me to really value my relationships, and I found myself
deliberately making an effort to catch up and keep in touch with some friends
that I really valued.

~~~
cbluth
What made you choose the Netherlands?

~~~
eyezick
I didn't, I was looking for a specific kind of work (Ethereum related) and it
just so happened to be in Netherlands.

------
ghettosoak
I was born and raised in the Suburbs of Chicago. I lived in the city through
University. I studied abroad in Luzern, Switzerland, where I met the woman I
would later marry. I moved back after my degree, first to Schaffhausen for a
spell, then to Bern.

I’ve worked for a number of agencies across the country, and I’ve also
freelanced quite a bit. I have a studio down by the river with some good
friends of mine, where I build various apps and platforms with the various web
stacks. I’ve been lucky enough to make some cool things with some cool people.

It’s pricey here. I’ve taken up work at a startup here in town to cover my
costs. I have thoroughly enjoyed learning Swiss German and its various
dialects – I’m told I still have an eastern accent from time to time. The
river is beautiful during the summer.

I do think about Chicago often. I miss it dearly. The startup scene is
burgeoning here, but it’s still Switzerland. Bern is somehow too nice to
leave. Small government, applied correctly, is a lovely thing. We pay through
the nose in taxes, but the system is there for you when you need it.

Still, I’m a stranger in a strange land. And simultaneously at home. A part of
my own cyberpunk novella with mountains.

------
ChuckMcM
There is a general principle that exposing yourself to new environments will
improve your perspective, whether it is spending time in a different country
or spending time with a different socio-economic group.

It is of utmost importance that you do this at least once because it will show
you the things you considered constant but aren't. And after having that
experience you might be more open to understanding other situations.

~~~
ecthiender
Have you done this? What is your experience?

~~~
ChuckMcM
When I was younger I lived in Brussels for 3 years, it gave me both different
language exposure (French/Flemish vs English) and different cultural exposure.
But more recently I spent 6 months living in Denver which, although it was
still US based, helped remind me of things which living in the Bay Area does
differently, from driving to politics to governance to industry.

------
blawson
Grew up in California, after college moved to DC. 2 years into that, I decided
the path I was on wasn't for me, and moved to South America to study Spanish
for a few months. Ended up loving it in Buenos Aires, and lived there for
about 9 months. I interviewed at startups there, but the pay was so low
relative to other countries, that I couldn't stomach it, and ended up finding
a job in Amsterdam. Was there for 4.5 years, and really loved it. My
girlfriend at the time really wanted to live in London, so we moved, and I
ended up getting a job at a SV-based BigCo. When we split, after 4 years, I
figured it was time to try the US again.

So almost a decade in total! Hard to say if it's "valuable" as honestly it
just felt like life. I have dual citizenship though (US / Euro), so moving
around was much easier than for some. I am really glad I took advantage, and
do believe it opens you up in a unique way.

You learn how to get along with people from all over, get good at identifying
accents (like making friends just because you can tell that person is from
Manchester, and not just English), and hopefully pick up a language or two. My
Spanish is thankfully still pretty good, but my Dutch is awful.

I'm in NYC now, and while I am enjoying it, I can definitely see myself moving
again. Maybe Australia, or somewhere else in Europe? Gets harder with kids I'm
sure, but I know people from oil households who moved around a lot (Nigeria,
Bahrain, Norway) and are still normal, well-adjusted adults. Itchy feet? Who
knows. But a big benefit of working in tech is that the job doesn't really
change, regardless of where you are. It's much harder for friends of mine who
are lawyers, or even doctors (building a practice is very local), to consider
moving internationally.

~~~
throw_this_one
Wow very cool story. I'm in NYC now too. I've been working for almost 3 years
now and I'd like to do the same, to go down to South America and learn spanish
for a few months. Did you have a lot saved up and anything endgoal in mind
when you did it? Did you work during that time? Or did you just let it rip and
go with the flow? I just need some time to get a fresh mindset, so sick of my
job and the day to day.

------
pelario
Yes, five years and counting, and it has been a great experience.

I presume that HN being more USA-centric makes the question interesting; but I
feel that if you ask people in most other regions, the answer would be
"obviously yes".

~~~
refrigerator
Thanks for the response. Would love to hear the details — where were you
originally based + where did you move to? What's been good/bad about it? Has
it changed the way you think about things?

~~~
pelario
South America -> Scandinavia, came here to pursue the PhD; however, If I had
decided not to pursue a PhD I still wanted to live abroad.

There are different aspects that make the experience different, like, whether
you learn the local language or not (in many places you can get away with
english).

But, regardless of that, the "cultural gap" will be always there, obvious
things for everybody that for you are a total mystery... and by being in such
a different context, you start to realize that things that were "a fact of
life" for you, or "the way things are", it was just a feature of your culture
at a given time.... So yes, you learned a lot about yourself, your culture,
and people.

The bad ? you will find that each culture has great things and terrible
things, and then, weherever you are, there will be something missing...

------
spking
At 18 I spent a year living in the UK and a few months in Italy. I remember
being depressed after leaving Italy and landing back at Gatwick through a
blanket of thick clouds.

It was a super valuable experience overall and in many ways I came back to the
US with a newfound appreciation for this country.

If I could do it over again I'd go somewhere way more outside my comfort zone
(non-English speaking). Probably Japan or Korea.

------
lowpro
I’m currently in my final week of a semester exchange program in Singapore
(from Midwest USA). Even though I’m a student I might have a little different
perspective.

As background I’ve already traveled quite a bit with 15 countries and 45
states so I knew a little what I was getting into.

I generally have loved to travel, but this 6mo period has actually made me
find some limits and has been pretty tough. I really found some things that
make me very uncomfortable culturally and realized I can’t live anywhere I
want like I thought I could. I’ve ad some not as good experience here due to
several factors, but I’d do it again even knowing that. You really find your
limits and the world opens up a lot more. One of the major things for me is
even though you can make friends anywhere, if I lived abroad longer I’d have
to go where I know at least a friend or 2 already to help me establish roots
there. Friends really make or break wherever you are.

~~~
txttran
I'd be interested in knowing more about the limits you hit in Singapore, if
you're willing to share! Singapore is a really interesting city and as someone
who moved to Hong Kong a few years ago, I've always wondered what life in
Singapore is like.

~~~
lowpro
Well they aren't related to Singapore specifically, more or less Asian culture
as being more conservative than American culture. It can be really hard to
meet locals here, as many stick to themselves and find talking to a stranger
somewhat weird, much less making friends for no reason. This can be seen
especially at clubs, where you go and hang with your group of friends rather
than meeting new people. I was just in HK for a week and really liked it, it
seems more vibrant than Singapore as far as the energy of the city.

Many limits I ran into were personal including health conditions and it turns
out humidity really makes me sweat which I never realized. Also in India for
some reason eating with my hands made me so uncomfortable, whereas eating with
chopsticks was fine and I learned it quickly. The language barrier wasn't too
bad since Singapore is English speaking, although the accent can be really
difficult sometimes so speaking slowly is sometimes needed. I knew Asian
culture was more conservative as I've been to South Korea before and have a
lot of friends there from research at my home university, but I really thought
I could make local friends anywhere despite a quieter culture and that turned
out not to be the case.

------
dijit
British National here: Making use of the EU's freedom of movement, I lived in
Finland but after a 3yr stint back in the UK (London) I now live in Sweden and
have for the last 3.5~ years.

I feel like I haven't assimilated as much as I should but! to answer your
question: it was/is very valuable, to see how other peoples approach life, to
see subtle differences between how people handle things commonly- you pick up
life tips that make being human a little easier. Simple things that are
obvious in retrospect.

However, I'm not sure what the alternative would have been if I had stayed in
London.. Without a frame of reference it's hard to know if it's was /more/
valuable than the alternative.

~~~
julianpye
Hope you can get Swedish citizenship in time! I grew up in Germany, but am
British, but after spending enough years here I am so glad I can apply for
German citizenship before Brexit day.

------
dhruvkar
I lived in China for a year right after my undergrad degree at Iowa State,
taking a manufacturing QA job in Shenzhen on a whim.

It was valuable in that I formed lifelong friendships. A few others had also
done the same and being in this unique boat --- no language skills, first time
in China, first job ever --- formed really tight bonds.

I also learned enough Mandarin that I can comfortably roam China on my own,
even 6 years later, when I went for two weeks this January.

Oh, and this is how I got into building software as well. We built our own ERP
system for manufacturing audits.

------
jacquesm
Yes and Yes.

I've written a bit about it here:

[https://jacquesmattheij.com/a-western-kid-living-in-
communis...](https://jacquesmattheij.com/a-western-kid-living-in-communist-
poland)

Later followed by a 5 year stint in Canada that I've yet to really write about
and another 2 years in Bucharest, Romania.

Original base is NL.

What's been good/bad about it could fill a book, and it changed my perspective
on life in so many ways that each and every day it still surprises me.

For one thing: in every country people take stuff for granted that elsewhere
is hard to impossible to achieve or come by. Those things are simply 'normal'
and nobody thinks twice of it. And elsewhere in the world people are dying or
hardly able to function for lack of those 'normal' things.

Remember this whenever you turn on the light, up the heat, open a tap and
clean water comes out or go out to vote on election day.

------
contingencies
From Sydney. Before leaving at 19 I had already been sent on business to
India, the Philippines, Singapore, Taiwan, etc. Following that, I have since
lived in China on and off for 18 years, in at least six cities. In that time I
also spent one year each in London, LA, and Bangkok. Lots of travel. Chiefly,
moving to China as a young person allowed me to afford to invest time in
developing my skills and provided a platform for me to gain experience
launching a business from scratch with limited capital in a foreign
environment, while learning a language. The key challenges have been finding
mentors and maintaining a professional network with all the moving around.
I've had amazing experiences: long distance cycle touring in many countries,
the Tunisian revolution, sailing trimarans at night on vast Himalayan lakes at
2000m altitude, months solo in India, made documentaries, the great art
museums Europe, the US and the Chinese imperial collection (with some
background to appreciate them), studied ancient history and slowly built a
small art collection, etc. Met my wife. Now running the most interesting
venture of my life, for which everything prior - linguistic, cultural,
business, technical, financial, personal - has prepared me. It hasn't been all
rainbows and unicorns but I would definitely do it again.

 _Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in
a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
"Wow! What a Ride!”_ ― Hunter S. Thompson

 _The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page._ ―
Saint Augustine

~~~
vram22
>Before leaving at 19 I had already been sent on business to India, the
Philippines, Singapore, Taiwan, etc.

Interesting, and unusual, maybe? except if you were working in a family
business. Were you?

~~~
contingencies
Haha, fair line of reasoning, but no. I was working for a listed company...

------
playing_colours
Originally I am from Eastern Europe, and I lived in the UK for a while.
Positive: I stopped smoking soon after I moved, as the price of cigarettes in
UK was crazy high. Negative: I gained some weight, as I very much enjoyed
local chickens, burgers, bacon, beer.

Jokes aside, it helped me to improve my English, see other ways of living,
experience different work culture, and learn that very indirect, not
straightforward way British people communicate.

------
rhn_mk1
For me, the value came from learning the customs of the others. Challenging
what I took as obvious opened my eyes to the lines along which societies can
vary.

One example was to see different ways universities operate in respect to
undergraduate students, for example the amount of socializing they are,
incidentally or on purpose, forced into. The differences in prestige boils
down not to the level of teaching, but to opportunities students are given,
becoming a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy.

Living in another country means that sooner or later one will crash into
beaurocracy and the health system, which works differently everywhere, giving
appreciation to things that one might have hated before.

And finally, there's the pure "feel" of the place. Admittedly, it's possible
to live in places with different "feels" without going abroad, and get most of
the variation, but it's even more pronounced when the demographics, general
approach to the world, weather or legislation are different.

In the very least, moving around helped me understand what is important to
lead a happy life. Totally valuable.

------
bwb
Orig based in Arkansas where I grew up, now I live in Colorado. I've done a
lot of stints diff places: \- A year in Cairo. \- A year in Melbourne. \- A
year in Dublin. \- 1.5 years in Europe \- 6 months in South America

The good IMO opinion is everything, the only downside is building a community
and meeting people takes a lot of energy. But looking back I think it takes a
lot no matter where you live, it is just easier if you are there all the time.

How did it change my perspective? I am a lot more confident in general as I
realized I can navigate a huge swath of different cultures and challenges.
Knowing you can land just about anywhere in the world and take care of
yourself is a good feeling. What else? I see a lot of what other countries are
doing well and doing not so well at, when I go home it helps me see what we
could be doing better.

------
faster
Moved from the west coast of the US to France for a year. I would unreservedly
recommend living in another country for an extended period of time, preferably
before you're 30 or 35. I was in my 50s when I did it, and it was a little too
late. My ability to acquire language skills was much better when I was
younger.

I think the most valuable lesson I brought back with me was that I sometimes
speak in vague sound bites. I didn't notice before living in France because
everyone around me seems to do the same thing. I'm not going to call it 'an
American cultural trait' but it might be. Noticing that has inspired me to
focus on clarity in my thoughts and communication.

Other useful lessons: people are pretty much the same all over; ease of travel
between EU countries is so much better than when I backpacked around Europe in
the 1990's; a lot of things we take for granted in the US are full of
incomprehensible friction in many other countries (e.g. opening a bank
account). And vice versa, to a smaller degree.

~~~
davnicwil
> I sometimes speak in vague sound bites

Interested in what you mean by this. Could you give an example?

~~~
vram22
Yes, I'm interested to know about it too.

------
bewe42
11 years and counting. Born in Germany, I've been to the US, UK, Spain (and
short 3 months in Mexico), now again in the UK. It has absolutely been
valuable, though I feel the question does not really apply to me as I always
felt I had to go abroad. Everything has good and bad parts, but the one thing
I can say for sure is that I am much more "alive". The thought that I might
have stayed in my home town (Hamburg, which is one of the nicest cities in
Germany) for my whole life truly horrifies me.

However, now with wife & kids priorities change significantly. We are planning
(though it is not sure we will do it due to wife's job) to bring our kids to
Germany while they're in school and then retire in Spain once they have grown
up. Let's see if that works out ;)

------
stephenr
I’m currently in my 6th year living in Thailand, having grown up in South
Australia and then spent a few years in the eastern states (of Australia).

I moved because my (then gf, now wife) had been away from her home (Thailand)
for ~10 years and wanted to come home for a while. I worked for a remote
company at the time, so it was no problem work wise. I’ve since started my own
company and work independently but still remote, so no issues there.

The low cost of living is nice, but I definitely appreciate some of the
western cultural/lifestyle aspects more now that I’ve lived here.

I also appreciate things like government more now - people often claim
Australia has become a “nanny state” due to regulations - Thailand is a
perfect example of what can happen when government says “eh fuck it do what
you want”. I realise that won’t mean much to those who haven’t lived here, but
that’s the whole point of this thread, isn’t it.

------
perlgeek
Lived and studied in Scotland for 9 months (I am from Germany) when I was 22.
Dunno if that counts as "extended". It certainly helped me to become a bit
more adult and a lot more independent and confident. 10/10 would recommend :)

Positive side effect: I now understand Trainspotting without subtitles, which
did it not before :)

------
lend000
I'm interested in hearing from those in the US who have spent significant time
abroad as nomads / not committing to any particular place for long. This
website always inspires me to give it a try:
[https://nomadlist.com/](https://nomadlist.com/)

------
sykh
I grew up in the Canal Zone and spent a lot of time in Berlin. It was valuable
to me. Gave me perspectives I wouldn’t otherwise have. There are downsides.
Coming to the U.S. from the Canal Zone took a lot of getting used to. Going in
the reverse direction is no different. However, English is widely spoken and
American movies and TV are ubiquitous and this helps with coping to a new
place.

Every place has its nuances. In Berlin if you walk on the sidewalk and 4
people are walking abreast toward you they will not make way for you. On
whatever side you are walking the person closest to you will do a half turn
and it’s expected you do the same.

I met a German in Turkey once who lived in a village for 20 years. He said he
will always be an outsider there. Depending on where you go you may not ever
feel part of the society.

------
mlevental
in between undergrad and grad i did peace corps in rural africa (uganda). for
two years i lived in a village 30km from the nearest flushing toilet. it was
simultaneously the best and worst thing i've ever done. we in the west live in
a theme park. it's been about 5 years since i've returned and i still
occasionally reflect on how many light years ahead we are when i drive down
perfectly paved roads in my tiny little college town (let alone wrt
metropolises like nyc).

ironically it inspired me to work harder to secure some wealth for myself and
go into software (because to squander the opportunity would be an insult to
all of the people i met that will live out the rest of their lives growing
corn).

i'm a cofounder now and there's a lot of commonality in at least the
grit/resilience necessary.

------
DoreenMichele
I was born and raised in Columbus, GA. I briefly lived in Germany as a
toddler, but I don't remember it.

My mother is a German immigrant and my father was career military. He retired
when I was three years old and bought a house where I lived until I married
and moved out. I graduated high school with people I had gone to kindergarten
with.

I was married to a soldier for a long time. In my twenties, one of our stints
was in Germany. We were there more than 3.5 years.

I got to meet some of my German relatives and got to be exposed to my mother's
culture. I had always felt I was missing something in that regard and it
helped me feel whole.

------
ptaipale
Absolutely it was valuable. I'm Finnish, lived in China for a bit over one
year (almost 20 years ago). It certainly changed the way I look at the world,
was an invaluable experience, and I recommend anyone to take a bit of a leap.
Most likely you will appreciate it. Since then I've had shorter stints
elsewhere but not for longer periods.

I got paid better at the assignment than at home, learned a lot about how
differently people think in other parts of the world; my two older kids
started school there (in English) and gained excellent language skills. I'm
very thankful for the opportunity.

------
cinquemb
Currently going on two years in SE asia. Midwest -> North Africa ->
PVD/NYC/Boston area -> SE asia.

Good: Cheaper cost of living, meeting people from all over the world,
observing/learning the ways of people and cultural feedback loops.

Bad: always takes some adjusting to, esp language.

Hasn't really changed my perspective of various parts of life, even through
the differences, people don't really behave imaginably different esp wrt most
going along with the status quo of their local environments.

Valuable? We all have different functions for evaluation of such when it comes
to anything in our lives.

------
TXV
Absolutely. I lived in China and Spain, and am about to move once again. Those
experiences have given me perspective on the world and on myself, gave me
self-confidence when I was able to succeed in a foreign environment against
international competition, built my character and drive. It ultimately gives
me a non-negligible advantage over my peers when it comes to job-hunting. It
does have downsides because leaving Family & Friends is tough at times,
homesickness, etc.

My personal 2 cents is, think about your motivations. Don't do that just
because of a calculation.

~~~
jacquesm
> Don't do that just because of a calculation.

I'd say that doing it is more important than what your motivation is. Your
motivation will last for a very short while once you are confronted with the
reality of life abroad, you will need to be able to adapt and find your groove
even absent whatever your motivation was or you'll be back in your home
country before the week is out.

------
davidw
I lived in Italy and a bit in Austria over the course of about 15 years.

It defined my life in many ways, not least of which marrying a woman from
Italy!

I can't recommend it enough - it gives you a much broader perspective on the
world.

~~~
refrigerator
Nice! Could you elaborate on the "broader perspective on the world" point
please?

~~~
davidw
Seeing how things are done, how people think and what they regard as normal.
Here's a simple example about windows, and how they're done differently in
different countries:

[https://blog.therealitaly.com/2007/08/09/window-
technology/](https://blog.therealitaly.com/2007/08/09/window-technology/)

------
d_burfoot
Valuable in what sense? For most people, it will probably be very valuable as
an experience. But it might also hurt your career a bit, depending on what you
are trying to do. Read the biographies of the most successful entrepreneurs,
and I think you'll find they were too focused on building their companies to
spend a lot of time roaming the earth. The main exception would be people like
Sebastian Thrun and Elon Musk who moved to the US as a way to pursue their
ambitions.

------
grosjona
I was born on an island in the Caribbean, lived in Australia for over 10 years
then lived in Russia, Netherlands, UK for about 6 months each and now I'm in
Germany.

I think that living in many different countries does change you significantly.
It makes you more aware of subtle cultural differences and also about human
psychology at a fundamental level. I think it also probably made me a bit
cynical overall. It gives you a general feeling of instability.

------
msangi
Just yesterday I read this article that an acquaintance of mine wrote on her
experience as an American who lived for a while in the UK and then went back
to the states [https://www.girlabouttheglobe.com/where-are-you-
from/](https://www.girlabouttheglobe.com/where-are-you-from/)

------
Roritharr
I became a Dad before I had the chance to fullfil my dream of going abroad
longer.

My wife has done the opposite and spent most of her 20s as a
backpacker/work&travel. She wants to go travelling again but my job &
financial situation just make it not possible to make the jump. Are there any
other parents with long-term travel experience?

~~~
jacquesm
There is a couple that is living on a small boat with kids.

[http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/ct-
sun-0802-balanci...](http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/ct-
sun-0802-balancing-act-20150731-column.html)

------
geophile
From USA. Lived in Canada for nine years. Does that count?

------
axegon0
Yes, I have. 5 years in Spain. I was studying there and as someone who was
born, raised and now living in eastern Europe, I can tell you that this was
one of the most valuable experiences of my entire life.

First things first, I grew up in a large city that was torn by protests up
until the late 90's, despite the collapse of the soviet union. Even though I
was a kid in the 90's, I grew up with the idea that I'll emigrate. And So I
did the moment I got the chance in the mid 2000's. I am not sure if things had
changed at that time or I had but life was nothing like I would have expected.
First off, coming from a poor country with no financial support is extremely
difficult. Second, Eastern Europe is a pretty non-secular place so foreigners
are not something you see every day. I wouldn't say the foreign kids(as few as
they were) in school were bullied in any way or left out but they were almost
always pushed a bit off to the side. Something I did not experience in Spain.
Students, professors, random strangers on the street - everyone, no exception
was very friendly and welcoming, helpful and friendly. I did my last year of
school there and at the time my country was not in the EU and I was an illegal
immigrant by all means. I was concerned about this when I enrolled and I asked
the secretary of the school if that is a problem. Her reaction blew my mind:
"We are not immigration services. We are an educational institution. What kind
of animals do we have to be to say no to a kid that wants to study?". I truly
had no idea what to say, I think I stood there for a good 5 minutes with my
mouth wide open. For years I was trying to figure out where the catch was, but
there really wasn't one. I studied software engineering and I did extremely
well, graduating second in my class by a tiny fraction behind the guy that was
first. When I started university I was 18 and I had been writing code since I
was 10 so everything was very natural to me. Which in addition made me even
more popular since I could help the others and I gladly did. I guess one of
the most valuable experiences was that I used to live in the south of Spain,
which besides giving me plenty of opportunity to make Spanish almost a native
language to me, also made English a native language due to the large British
diaspora. 2 years down the road the Spanish couldn't tell I wasn't Spanish and
the English couldn't tell I wasn't English. So on that front alone it was all
worth it. I suppose I was never a fan of hot weather but I could easily
picture myself spending the rest of my life there. However a few life changing
events happened(lost my best friend, along a very bitter experience I had with
a girl over there), so I figured the best way to cope with it was to move back
home and start over. Was it worth it? Totally!

~~~
atmosx
"We are not immigration services. We are an educational institution. What kind
of animals do we have to be to say no to a kid that wants to study?"

There you go, hope in humanity restored.

------
Raed667
3 years and counting, it has been difficult but i would do it again in a
blink.

