
Ask HN: Is it still possible to work in the US as a European? - bikeshedding247
With the H1B visa situation not getting better any time soon, are there still <i>realistic</i> ways of working as a software engineer in the US (especially the Bay Area) as a European, under the assumption that one is <i>not</i> a “rockstar programmer” (and neither studied nor worked in the US before)?<p>I’m aware of three ways to get a visa as a European, but each of them seems futile:<p>- <i>L1</i>:  You kind of have to be lucky to find an employer that qualifies for this, or, well, be a Rockstar Programmer™ (and you’ll have to work for them one year outside the US first)<p>- <i>H1B</i>:  Unrealistic, not only because of the cap, but also because of time &#x2F; effort &#x2F; risk it takes for the employer<p>- <i>Diversity Lottery</i>:  Well, that’s lottery (chances are not <i>that</i> bad, though)<p>I find it quite depressing that there’s basically no way that <i>does not involve luck</i> to work in the US as a more “average”, but ambitious, software developer &#x2F; engineer. I could theoretically work anywhere in Europe, but well, the interesting stuff seems to be happening in the US (I currently work as a digital plumber, putting my university degree to waste).
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ones_and_zeros
Lots of companies are getting around the H1B cap by setting up satellite
offices at universities, since they are cap exempt. You are an employee of the
university but all work is directed and owned by the company. Universities pay
you out of a grant, which looks good for deans etc. and they take a cut.

Downside is you are typically in the "academic" pay scale, which is
significantly lower than typical H1B industry software engineer pay scales.
But then again scores of H1B discount themselves because they value so highly
being on US soil, so it may not look like so much of a discount to you.

CUNY is doing a program with an entrepreneurship bend, but the sponsors of the
program have come right out and said it's a loophole around the cap to get
engineers.

I'd think this loophole would be closed but with the overwhelming support for
expanding the H1B program I don't think that'll be the case no matter who ends
up as POTUS or which party is in control of Congress.

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gamechangr
True -

You have outlined the options, but added a half a dose of pessimism.

L1 - you do NOT need to be a "Rockstar" or anything close. You need to be
persistent and producing code (Github). It can be average code, but many just
want to see that you produce.

H1B -- This is kind of true. It's more true if you are only interested in the
Bay area.

I would suggest you try to find a large company to sponsor you in a less than
perfect location in the US. Getting to the Bay area as from another US city
with a year of demonstrated ability it much, much easier.

Keep trying! You will get it!

Hope that helps.

~~~
aprdm
Why is it easier to get a H1B visa outside of the Bay Area?

~~~
gamechangr
Well... I would guess that you misunderstood me. I forget what is
"understood", so that's my fault in the communication.

The process to get an H1B visa is the same no matter where you are located.

As you know, the best developers in the world head to the Bay area every year.
Comparatively, it's fairly expensive with many companies looking to make as
much impact as possible within a short amount of time.

If you're a company taking a chance with the cost of sponsoring and agreeing
to a yearly contract for an H1B..where would you want to be?

We'll compare Atlanta and Silicon Valley just for fun. In Silicon Valley you
would pay twice as much for salary and be ten times more likely to have your
candidate approached (recruited) by competitors. Because of the higher cost of
living, you had better be very sure that they have the skills set that you
need now and ideally two years later after your company has grown
significantly.

If you are in Atlanta, it's half the initial investment. It's less likely that
they will be stolen. You can afford to train them (the cost of the senior
developer is even less than half of the cost of Bay Area senior developers).

That's more what I meant. Does that make sense?

~~~
S4M
> As you know, the best developers in the world head to the Bay area every
> year.

Uh no. Probably some go working for Google and Facebook, but that should be
pretty much it.

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eshvk
> I find it quite depressing

Quit being so dramatic. There are enough good places in EU. There are loads of
exciting startups in Stockholm, Berlin. Google has some interesting stuff
going on in Zurich and London.

> the interesting stuff seems to be happening in the US (I currently work as a
> digital plumber, putting my university degree to waste).

There are enough plumbing jobs in the U.S. too. A vast majority of startup
jobs in the Bay Area are exactly that. Plumbing. You either are specialized,
in which case you have those jobs in both the EU and the U.S.

Also, as a person who went thru the H1B, I can say that you will find it way
easier with medium sized and larger companies to get someone to apply for an
H1B. There is no need for micro-optimization in terms of cities and such.

~~~
bikeshedding247
Thanks for your reply. In my particular case, I guess I should be working
towards getting more specialized (I’m more of a “generalist” now I’d say).

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canterburry
I have seen an increased number of people getting visas based on extraordinary
abilities. Some only have a news paper article that someone in their country
published and some interesting project they did and that ends up qualifying
them for an O-1 visa. You don't have to have a PhD or Nobel laureate to get
these.

~~~
wprapido
an argentine friend of mine, well known in JS world, has an O1 visa. so did a
french friend of mine, who is a renowned graphic designer. but, you really
don't need to be tesla or einstein to qualify

~~~
bikeshedding247
> you really don't need to be tesla or einstein to qualify

Interesting. I didn’t think you have to be a von Neuman, but I always thought
you’d have to be of a calibre like, say, Linus Torvalds.

~~~
wprapido
nahh... not really. just being above average and having a bit of a high
profile is enough

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loumf
Just look at the very large companies -- they have staff trained and ready to
deal with visas and have no issues with it. I'm not just talking about the
Google/MS/Apple/etc -- just very large companies (GE, IBM, Thomson Reuters,
Lexmark, etc)

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falsestprophet
Most H1B visas go to average or below average developers working via large H1B
sponsors like Tata, Infosys, Wipro and IBM ultimately working for IT
departments of large corporations like banks and insurance companies.

Only a small minority go to high level developers at product companies.

Obviously, these visa sponsor companies (which call themselves
"consultancies") sponsor visas almost exclusively for people from India. But,
you could try to apply for jobs with them (possibly even through their Indian
websites).

Once you are on an H1B visa, you can try to transfer to another more exciting
company.

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eugenoprea
If your work is above average then you should not have an issue getting a job
from a US company that will arrange all the paperwork for you.

Alternatively you could start by working in an European office, if the company
is global and then find a way to relocate in the US.

However, you would be better by working from home and start doing some
freelance work until you get to the expert level. Then, you can get a job and
work remotely for any company in the world.

Everyone wants talented people. If you are talented it shouldn't be hard to
find something good for you. If there is room for improvement do the work and
get noticed by others.

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alain94040
Sure, it's hard. In your list, you forgot the E visa, which is extremely
relevant to the HN crowd. Assuming you have a startup that is starting to take
off in Europe, you will be able to move to the US to establish its US branch.
It makes complete business sense (for a successful startup to expand to the
US), and the visa is very easy to get (provided you use an experienced
lawyer).

The E visa may not work for you _today_ , but two years from now, who knows
where your European startup will be.

~~~
bikeshedding247
Yeah, I guess that would be another option. But not everyone is an
entrepreneur. At least I am not.

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wprapido
if you are under 35, you can get a J1 visa fairly easy. basically, they bring
you over as a paid intern. your salary and real scope of work don't
necessarily need to be of an intern

~~~
bikeshedding247
I did look at the J1 visa in the past, and as far as I remember it is a non-
immigrant visa which basically allows you to work in the US for one
internship, after which you will have to leave the country again. What I meant
by “working in the US” was something like 2+ years (then there’s usually still
the green card option).

~~~
wprapido
usually you can stay beyond the internship and adjust your status to H1B, O1,
F1, ... what you really need is a foot in the door and establishing your
presence in the states. once you set your foot on american soil, it gets much
easier. any visa is better than no visa

