
Bloomberg stands by Chinese chip story as Apple, Amazon ratchet up denials - rbanffy
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/10/bloomberg-stands-by-chinese-chip-story-as-apple-amazon-ratchet-up-denials/
======
bitbang
All this assertion / denial stuff is getting tiresome. If this compromise was
implemented at a significant scale, and people in-the-know have figured out
how it functions, it shouldn't be too hard to get hold of one and provide a
demo.

~~~
vyodaiken
absence of an example device is a strong strike against the Bloomberg article.

~~~
wmeredith
The burden of proof is on the accuser.

~~~
00N8
The burden's on Bloomberg for accusing China of implanting the devices, or
it's on the tech companies accusing Bloomberg of being full of --it, though?
Looks like a standoff until we hear more

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sergers
DHS, GCHQ, UK all backing the assessment there was no chip conspiracy.

[https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/10/06/statement-dhs-press-
secr...](https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/10/06/statement-dhs-press-secretary-
recent-media-reports-potential-supply-chain-compromise)

~~~
JdeBP
No. A Reuters headline, not borne out by what the article body then says nor
by that statement, misleadingly states that they do.

* [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18148811](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18148811)

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sschueller
If the story is not true Apple and Amazon should sue Bloomberg for misleading
the public and hurting their reputations.

~~~
cm2187
I am sure Bloomberg had some lawyers in the room when they made that decision.

~~~
charlysl
From what I read in "Bad Blood" (the book about the Theranos fiasco) of what
WSJ does before publishing investigative reports, you can be 100% that they
did.

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forapurpose
Bloomberg says they did a year of reporting, and over 100 interviews, and have
around 17 sources. It's hard to believe all those sources conspired to
fabricate this story, along with the evidence, and conned the reporters.
Bloomberg clearly found something, but if Apple and Amazon are right (I
wouldn't assume that; aggressive denials are par for the course), what did
they find?

~~~
coldcode
Considering the article points fingers at China, I wonder if their evidence
was manufactured by someone. Without proof (like a board) or the names of
actual witnesses or hard documents or something, its basically unverifiable,
like claiming Area 51 has aliens. Without proof it's indistinguishable from
fiction.

~~~
jancsika
It would be like claiming Area 51 has aliens after over 100 interviews with 17
people familiar with the aliens, including two at Lockheed Martin and three at
Boeing.

~~~
Canada
None of whom are identified on the record.

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swframe2
Does bloomberg have a compromised motherboard so we can independently verify
the claim?

~~~
ardy42
> Does bloomberg have a compromised motherboard so we can independently verify
> the claim?

It's unreasonable to expect that they would. Bloomberg News is full of
_journalists_ , not security researchers. They gather testimony and documents,
_not physical evidence_.

Furthermore, the servers in question would have been owned by others: Apple,
Amazon, the US Government. It's very unlikely that whatever sources Bloomberg
talked to would have had the authorization to legally hand over the servers in
question.

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Waterluvian
I'm expecting third party experts to come out of the woodworks with "look at
what we found / didn't find!"

Is there something I'm missing that makes this difficult?

~~~
pmorici
It probably comes down to how common the alleged problem boards are. If these
devices only ended up in a small percentages of boards produced it might be
very difficult to find a board that even had it.

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heuiop
Curious. They had mentioned 30 companies. Where are the other 28? Has anything
been said about them?

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CamperBob2
This whole business reminds me of the Newsweek reporter who was _sure_ that
Satoshi Nakamoto was some random Japanese guy in the Bay Area that she
apparently found by looking up "Satoshi Nakamoto" in a phone book. The guy she
found was a retired EE who had held a security clearance at Lockheed or
someplace like that. He was an elderly recluse whose English skills weren't
the best, so when he thought she was asking about classified material, he
muttered something like, "I don't work on that anymore," and shut the door in
her face. Jackpot, right?

In the old days an editor would step in at some point to save these ink-
stained wretches from themselves, but that's pre-Internet thinking.

~~~
tedunangst
You don't think Bloomberg had an editor review the story before publication?

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CamperBob2
You think Newsweek did?

~~~
tedunangst
I would like to know more about how things worked in "the old days".

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Terretta
Bloomberg pays reporters more if their story moves markets:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18162440](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18162440)

~~~
jakecopp
> “It isn’t news unless it’s true. At Bloomberg News, the most important news
> is actionable. That means we strive to be first to report surprises in
> markets that change behaviour and we put a premium on reporting that reveals
> the biggest changes in relative value across all assets.”

~~~
solarkraft
This is a very reasonable policy that doesn't sugar coat much.

Bonus for moving markets -> Incentive to report on highest possible value
stories.

High value stories -> Bloomberg gains reputation/highest possible value to
stock holders.

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basicplus2
If you knew some of your assets had been compromised..

BUT you KNEW that they were compromised BEFORE you put them into service,

and you made changes that allowed you to spy back on the spyers..

you would deny that the assets had been compromised in the first place.

~~~
prawn
Surely if something was compromised, you'd end the relationship with that
supplier? You wouldn't have much incentive, especially cross-border, to bust
them in action.

~~~
nogbit
Busting them in action wouldn't be of any worth, feeding them false or
misleading information would be. Never underestimate governments and their
desire to know as much as possible about their friends and enemies and feed
them with information.

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natch
It could be the whole thing is FUD being sowed by someone with an interest in
trolling US companies. Russia, for example, for whatever reasons which are
beyond me.

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hahan
Most brilliant. These people can conjuring up a fancy spy story while having
no idea how a chip is made at all. And is very amusing to see mass acceptance.

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droithomme
They have a photograph of the chip and scores of (unfortunately anonymous)
sources.

It sounds like some researcher found weird traffic, eventually found there is
a chip on some of these servers that wasn't in the original gerber files, and
this chip is doing something, and beyond that a lot of people are speculating
about who and what.

Apple and Amazon deny that the story is correct. That doesn't mean that there
isn't a chip there and they now know what it is doing but are prohibited from
saying much beyond the story as a published whole is not true.

~~~
14
Was there a picture of the chip released? I have been trying to follow and
last I seen was it seemed the pictures in the article was likely an artists
representation of the chip. Did an actual picture get released or was there
confirmation the picture they released was the real chip? Thank you

~~~
RL_Quine
Just an artists impression.

~~~
solarkraft
Which is infinitely sketchy.

