
Google Pixel 2 and 2 XL announced - plessthanpt05
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/10/4/16408962/new-google-pixel-2-phone-announced-price-release-date-features
======
mullingitover
I witnessed my girlfriend's Nexus 6p support experience with Google and it was
not pretty. I would never buy a Google phone after that. The phone, just
barely out of warranty, goes into a bootloop and becomes a paperweight. Google
helpfully shrugs the problem off on Huawei, and Huawei will of course not
support the product since it's out of warranty. There is no repair option.

I tried Android early on, had similarly unacceptable support experiences, and
whenever I'm tempted to dip my toes back in the water I'm reminded of how bad
things are with cases like this. In the case of the Nexus 6p it's Google's
flagship product and it's a worthless paperweight 13 months after purchase.

~~~
hypersoar
It seems to make a big difference whether or not you buy it from Google. I've
seen lots of complaints from Nexus 6P owners who didn't being shoved off to
Huawei and their terrible support. But I bought mine from Google, who twice
offered me RMAs after the warranty period was over with no resistance. Most
recently they replaced it with a new Pixel XL, instead (due to stock issues, I
assume).

That being said, Google needs to improve their out-of-warranty
repair/replacement options. I couldn't do anything for my Chromebook Pixel
once the warranty ran out, and I wouldn't count on them to randomly add a de
facto additional year to the warranty like they did with the 6P, which was
probably done because of its terrible, widespread battery issues.

~~~
bretthoerner
> It seems to make a big difference whether or not you buy it from Google.

I bought my 6p from Google. I _paid for the extended warranty_. It went into a
boot loop after 13 months and they still wanted me to pay the $75 fee for a
refurb phone. Remember: I _paid $89 in advance for_ a 2 year extended
warranty. This is for a well known issue in their hardware, that iirc they are
being taken to court for.

I had purchased a new Android phone every year for many years at that point. I
do Android development for a popular open source library/product.

They're banned now. No more Android phones in my house for a long time. Happy
on the iPhone and know if I walk into an Apple store I'll actually receive
support.

~~~
cdkee
I had no warranty and they gave me a replacement 6P for free despite being OUT
of warranty.

I heard others were given Pixel XLs. I guess mileage really can vary.

~~~
taneq
It sounds like they're pretty random with their support. In a way that's
almost worse, if their support was fully broken then you could make your
choice to buy or not based on that, but when it's 50/50 then you have to take
a gamble.

------
jraedisch
I am an Android user but it seems to me that it gets more and more invasive.
Everytime I go somewhere it wants me to take photos and just now it advertised
some Play Store movie. Search asks for location access on almost every search.
To get rid of the search bar I need to install third party software.

When I buy a premium phone I want the phone to work for me and not the other
way around. The notification bar should only be used for stuff that I want to
be notified about - not ads or cheap tries to get me working for free.

In the future I sometimes imagine two classes of devices: one controls the
lives of their owners and one helps their owners to control their lives. What
does Android want?

~~~
staticelf
I hate the invasive features that seems to only increase with every Android
update. So now I am getting an iPhone for the first time in years.

> And this year’s Pixel will take advantage of the phone’s always-on
> microphones to listen for music (not just the phrase “OK Google”) and
> display what you’re listening to on the screen, even if it’s something on
> the radio.

Like.. wtf? No! I don't want that. Sure it "only listens for music". I don't
want Google to save my passwords in apps. I don't want anything of that. Get
out of my life google.

In the process of removing Google out of my life as much as possible. This is
my progress:

Completed:

\- Using DDG for search

\- Using bing maps or OSM for maps

\- Only using Firefox / Vivaldi for browsing.

TODO:

\- Move email provider completely, now I am only partly using my gmail.

\- Move to iPhone (will soon be done)

\- Youtube (unfortunately I think this is hard to avoid)

Don't really use any other Google service than that. I urge people to do the
same.

~~~
Grazester
"I urge people to do the same."

I am just fine with my Google service thank you. If I don't like something I
disable it. Most of it I can and I appreciate the convenience of some of the
stuff.

The iphone without any of the doodads feels like a dumb phone. This is a great
way though to discourage constant phone use though.

~~~
staticelf
On my phone at least, Google spams me for data input whenever I use maps and
it seems at least to do that even if I simply have location on without
actually using any app.

Ï cannot disable this, it also sends me ads from built in apps (not really
Google here) that I cannot disable.

I am done with all of that. For years I have been an android enthusiast,
thinking it was so much better than iPhone. How times change.

~~~
Ajedi32
> Ï cannot disable this

Yes you can. Settings > Notifications > Your contributions.

And even if that didn't work, Android lets you turn off individual categories
of notifications for Maps and other apps at a system-wide level.

------
AdmiralAsshat
There's a reason that Samsung still leads the pack in sales, and it's not
solely due to marketing: they keep the stuff people want. People want a
headphone jack, they held onto the headphone jack. People want SD card slots,
they keep SD card slots.

I held off on getting a GS8 about two months ago when Amazon had a great deal
on them going because I was in the process of moving, and I wanted to wait to
see what else was coming out. Even though the S8 is lagging behind on updates,
it still seems to be the best option. The HTC 11, Pixel 2, and Essential phone
have all disappointed.

Waiting on the reviews for how the Sony Xperia XZ1 compact fares, because I
wouldn't mind a smaller phone.

~~~
lurker-
I won't defend ditching the headphone jack, especially after Google ridiculed
Apple for doing so. But as a very happy owner of the Pixel phone, I'd say the
free, unlimited storage of photos and videos in original quality is a million
times better than having a SD card slot.

Just today I transferred about 25GB of video and photos, and I probably
wouldn't have bothered to record these videos if I had to transfer using SD
card or cable. One might argue that's a sign that these videos aren't worth
storing, but I'd say it shows the value of unlimited storage. In fact, if I
had to choose between two near identical phones, with the only thing
separating them being the unlimited Google Photos storage, then I'd gladly add
an additional $250 to obtain that.

I think many of us experienced what it's like to make the jump from HD to FHD,
or especially FHD to UHD on a similar sized screen. Once you make the jump,
then you begin to wonder how you ever lived without it. For me, and I think
for most Pixel owners, unlimited storage of high quality photos and 4k videos
gives the exact same feeling. Having stock Android, best camera, slick design
and great build quality just makes it that much sweeter, and I honestly do
believe that marketing, brand loyalty and availability is the only reason the
Pixel phone wasn't more successful than [insert any phone here] (I'd estimate
19 out of 20 who have asked about my phone never heard of Google Pixel, and
had no idea Google even made any hardware products).

~~~
vardump
> Just today I transferred about 25GB of video and photos, and I probably
> wouldn't have bothered to record these videos if I had to transfer using SD
> card or cable.

Now try to take pictures on holiday without cheap & available 4g or wifi. I
prefer a few 256 GB microSD-cards. It takes just 10 seconds to swap it out and
put in a fresh new one. You can transfer the contents into a Macbook at speedy
90 MB/s.

~~~
alpha_squared
> Now try to take pictures on holiday > I prefer a few 256 GB microSD-cards

My immediate reaction to this is, "holy crap!"

Using a 12MP camera, each image you take would roughly be 2-3MB. Assuming the
higher end of 3MB (and only 230GB available per card), that's ~79,000 photos
per card.

Since "a few" typically means three or more, let's assume three, that's
~240,000 photos. If it's a typical holiday/vacation, that's likely 2-3 weeks
-- let's assume it's three, which comes out to be 21 days. Achieving ~11,000
photos per day during a holiday is quite a feat...

~~~
woolvalley
I'm pretty sure they are taking a few 4k 60fps videos as part of that holiday,
and those eat space like it's nothing.

~~~
alpha_squared
More rough napkin math...

A second of 4k60 video is ~7MB, but we'll overestimate to 8MB (though I'm
using really rough metrics here). At 690GB (230 x 3), that's ~86,000 seconds.
Or, more familiarly, about 24 hours of 4k60 video (holy cannoli, Batman!). I
guess that's about an hour's worth of video recording every day over a three-
week period. Understandable, and more doable, though still really excessive.

~~~
lurker-
And when you turn it into a more realistic scenario (~1 hour video/day -
something I'd almost never do with my iPhone but often do with my Pixel), it's
hard to imagine not having access to WiFi throughout the week. Even the
hotels/apartments with really poor connection seem to have no trouble
uploading the photos/videos throughout the night.

------
lopespm
Honest question: for those of you who own a mobile device without a headphone
jack, do you find it to be an encuberment?

Personally I still find it a bit hostile to not have the jack available, since
often times I find myself charging the phone and using the headphones (when
watching videos for example), so having an adapter dongle for such a frequent
task seems counterintuitive to me. I believe that if a device is correctly
designed, then it should serve most of its usecases without the aid of an
extra adapter. These should be reserved for edge cases.

Moreover, I use headphones for a good part on my day and I am not sold on the
idea of having a wireless device next to my brain for such an extended amount
of time. Sure, we are already exposed to a good number of electromagnetic
radiations, but this one I might want to pass. Not to mention the need to
charge yet another device.

~~~
modzu
you guys should try switching to a camera for your photography instead of a
cellphone, then we can remove the camera from the phone too

the idea that because bluetooth headphones exist means the jack shouldnt exist
is not fair -- there are plenty of reasons the jack is plenty useful to plenty
enough people

the only excuse I can see to remove the jack is that when you sell a billion
devices and the little jack costs a buck a device you just made yourself a
billion dollars for nothing. oh and now you can sell dongles that cost $1 a
pop to make for $10 a pop and you make yourself 10 billion

~~~
hota_mazi
Exactly. I routinely switch my headset from my laptop to my phone and vice
versa. Doing this with a jack is trivial. Doing this with a BlueTooth headset
is very annoying and requires additional steps on both devices.

~~~
hug
Anecdotally, my experience with Bluetooth headphones is that they’re easier. I
don’t have to do anything more complicated than you do — if I turn on my
Bluetooth headphones in range of my computer, they connect. If I turn them on
in range of my iPhone or iPad, they connect.

If any of them start playing sound, it comes out the headphones. No cable
twiddling required.

~~~
hota_mazi
And if they're currently connected to your phone and you want to connect to
your computer?

------
JosephLark
Edit up top: The identification is done on-device. The Verge article didn't
mention this.

> And this year’s Pixel will take advantage of the phone’s always-on
> microphones to listen for music (not just the phrase “OK Google”) and
> display what you’re listening to on the screen, even if it’s something on
> the radio.

This sounds creepy. So now when excessive microphone data is seen to be going
out to the cloud, they can just say "Oh, the phone thought there was music
playing and was trying to identify it. Simple misunderstanding, nothing
nefarious!".

~~~
dmayle
Except it doesn't send any data to the cloud. They mentioned that explicitly.
There's an on-phone database of songs that it is matching against.

~~~
raverbashing
I wonder how much space this takes on the device. How many signatures does it
keep and how often is this updated

~~~
thebooktocome
It's not very significant. Basically it stores some distances between peaks in
each song's spectrogram which can then be further compressed.

Even supporting a database of millions of songs would be possible.

~~~
NathanCH
Spotify has 30 million songs.

Even if it takes up a small amount of space, it's basically a non-feature.

~~~
joshuamorton
>Spotify has 30 million songs.

Many of those songs have never been played[1]. There's a really (really,
really, really) long tail.

[1]: [http://forgotify.com/](http://forgotify.com/)

------
MattyRad
I bought a Pixel when it came out, switching from the Nexus 5 primarily
because Project Fi was an easy, cheap way to get off my parent's cell-phone
plan and gain some personal independence. It was about time for a new phone
anyway.

I wish I had just stuck with the Nexus 5... it was a fantastic phone. Wireless
charging (which I personally found to be the most useful feature), excellent
dimensions, excellent price, and the notification light was bright. The case
was made of some sort of rubberized plastic, so it could withstand a real
beating.

Squeezable sides and marginally improved specs aren't enough for me to
consider upgrading, and at this point, as an Android fan since the Nexus 4, I
would strongly considering making the switch the iPhone.

~~~
chrisper
Are you planning to already switch phones again?

I have a pixel as well and feel like it will still last some time.

~~~
MattyRad
The Pixel is by no means a _bad_ phone, it's just been an exercise in
disappointment the whole way. So I'm not actively planning to switch phones,
I'm just lamenting that I don't get the same utility out of the Pixel that I
was getting out of my Nexus 5. Also being on Project Fi locks me into a
certain set of phones, switching would be an expensive endeavor.

------
nickjj
Be careful with the unlimited video storage deal because it's not really
unlimited video?

It's unlimited until 2020[0] and then I'm guessing you'll have to pay for it
afterwards, and after a few years of taking videos without caring about space,
you're probably going to rack up a massive bill or have to spend a ton of time
cherry picking what you want to save.

Their plan is pretty smart tho. Most people will be like "screw it, I'll just
buy another phone to avoid spending that just to keep my videos".

[0]: [https://i.imgur.com/M5LYvrH.png](https://i.imgur.com/M5LYvrH.png) (read
the fine print)

~~~
mscrivo
That's insidious if that's the case. I (and probably) many others took it to
mean that photos taken through that date would enjoy unlimited storage
permanently, not that they would start charging after that date. Would be nice
if we could get some clarification.

~~~
Orangeair
Parent comment is correct. From footnote #2 from here:
[https://store.google.com/us/product/pixel_2](https://store.google.com/us/product/pixel_2)

> Free, unlimited original-quality storage for photos and videos taken with
> Pixel through the end of 2020, and free, unlimited high-quality storage for
> photos taken with Pixel afterwards.

~~~
mscrivo
That's still not clear. It doesn't say they will start charging for original
quality shots taken before 2020. To me it just seems like if you want to keep
storing original quality shots taken AFTER 2020, then you will have to pay for
that going forward.

~~~
plexicle
Assuming it's just like all of their other storage promotions have been over
the last several years.

If you are over your free cap when the promotion ends, you don't lose access
to anything, you just can't add anything new.

~~~
iamnothere
This. To add more stuff you change the setting. (When changing from "original"
to the "high" quality setting, they convert your stuff to the lower quality.)

Source: did it before, probably still works the same way.

~~~
piyush_soni
No. The photos that I uploaded in "Original Quality" are still original
quality, and they remain that. I switched to 'High quality' because I don't
have a Pixel, and it hasn't retrospectively changed the previous ones. That is
also what Google probably means here.

------
AcerbicZero
I picked up the Pixel on release, but I've been disappointed by the quality of
the product overall. The screen scratches easily , battery life is mediocre,
and the changes to android recently have not been positive. I've had the
device replaced once by Google, which was a painless process, but the new one
scratches just as easily as the old, and loves to reboot on occasion.

Interestly enough, I started a new job right around the time I got my Pixel,
and work provided me a brand new iPhone 7, so I've been able to compare them
side by side for a year now, in nearly identical usage. I've been on the
android bandwagon for a long time now, but the iPhone 7 is hands down the
better hardware. The Pixel has been replaced once ~6 months ago, and spent
most of its life in a soft shell case, but it has not handled general wear and
tear well. The iPhone 7 has been blatantly abused (work phone, don't care) but
still looks brand new. iOS leaves a lot to be desired, but with all of
android's missteps the difference isn't as drastic as it used to be.

~~~
gxs
I recently switched from Android phones to an iPhone in July of this year.

This after having used android since the G1 (first android phone).

I think your sentiments are the most fair and realistic I've come across in a
while (FYI for others reading).

The gap isn't as big as it used to be software wise, but the hardware is still
better by a big margin. iOS has also been a little more stable, less app
crashes, random reboots, etc.

The only thing I'd add is that the apple stores have been surprisingly helpful
and have added more to the experience than I would have thought. Go in, try
everything, get brought up to speed real quick by friendly staff, and they
seem to always be conveniently located (for me at least).

All in all the experience has been better and I haven't missed Android's
famous flexibility.

------
codq
As an audio engineer, the headphone jack removal trend is an absolute travesty
in an industry that utilizes AUX IN audio capabilities night after night.

I'm often using iPods or other local-music devices to pump sound into concert
venues between acts. Taking away 1/8" audio standards in favor of USB-C or
Lightning non-standardized ports causes chaos when needing to fill in music in
a pinch.

In my industry, I simply cannot live without a standard audio port, which
absolutely no one was clamoring to discard.

If my 1st generation Pixel were to break today, I'd buy another 1st generation
Pixel.

~~~
adewinter
If you work in 'the industry', surely it would not be a big deal to carry
around an adapter a long with the other standard tools of your trade? I
imagine it'll be about as inconvenient as carrying around ear buds.

~~~
__sha3d2
"I'm sure you can put up with this massive inconvenience for a job and
workflow I have no understanding of or context for but sure do have an opinion
on"

Found the SWE!

~~~
zenojevski
I say you are committing the same sin exactly.

The audio industry is the most adapter-heavy industry on the planet. I need to
carry a bag of adapters, and I'm just a small-time home-recording guy.

Single/double RCA to mono/stereo big/small jack, double mono/stereo big/small
jack to stereo/mono small/big jack, the other way around, and more, you name
it.

Even if you got a 3.5mm jack, you’d still need adapters, because very little
audio equipment uses 3.5mm jacks anyway. Even the most basic stuff only
carries 1/4”, RCA or XLR. My headphones do not carry a 3.5mm jack as well.

You might think of committing to a single cable-type everywhere, and being
done with it – but if you’ve ever coded in the real world you know how
realistic that sounds.

~~~
__sha3d2
I'm with you, fellow small time home recording guy who needs to carry around
adapters. My synth is 3.5mm out, my mixer is XLR / 1/4 inch Mono or Stereo, my
piano puts out in mono or stereo 1/4, and on and on and on.

I still think that the hubris to say 'what's one more adaptor' is enormous.

------
syntaxing
I really wish they would reintroduce the Nexus series. The money felt worth it
for the phone. Not sure if I can say the same for the Pixel series.

~~~
iMark
What’s in a name?

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

~~~
jm_l
Pixel's goal is to be an iPhone competitor. This is reflected in its pricing
and product design. Nexus was for Android enthusiasts who wanted the stock
experience. I think in their own words it was "meant to showcase the best of
Android."

------
deep_concern
The only reason to remove the headphone jack is to sell more dongles and
wireless headphones. That's it.

Consumers are not asking for it for the aesthetics. It doesn't make the phone
much thinner. It doesn't make the phone easier to manufacture.

~~~
stephengillie
After finding cheap Bluetooth headsets on Amazon last about as long as a pair
of earbuds, and have no cord, I don't see a problem.

I'm very rough on physical devices, and will go through 4-6 pair of earbuds a
year. Because these do not physically connect to the device, they take an
order of magnitude less wear, and thus last longer.

~~~
sf_rob
I've never had a pair of Bluetooth headsets that haven't had connection issues
with my Pixel. This is especially true of the cheap Sony pair I tried, but
also true of the nicer Macaws and Here Ones. Even my car's head unit has a new
bug with Oreo where it connects/"plays" but is muted until I reconnect.

~~~
joshuamorton
Interesting. I've never had bluetooth issues with pixel. My current headphones
(Bose QC35, but not the fancy assistant ones) work amazingly, and even my
older headphones (ancient LG Tones) worked great. My only complaints with my
5X were occasional stutter, and that was gone with Pixel.

------
c0smic
When they mentioned the headphone jack being removed, I thought it was a joke.
I have a 6S now and was considering getting the Pixel, in part because of the
headphone jack and also for the more "open" ecosystem of Android (and things
not proprietary-Apple). But now it's basically the same, so there's less
motivation for me there. I just think Google could've swooped in and gotten
the people who still appreciate headphone jacks.

Interesting round of new devices this year around, I wonder what the consensus
is on who did it better, Google or Apple?

~~~
macandcheese
Pretty much have to stick to iPhone 6S for the rest of my life... So
disappointing to see possibly THE ONLY universal port - the 3.5mm aux - be
removed from devices before our eyes. I wonder what the adoption rate on
Bluetooth / Lightning / USBC headphones is. Can't imagine more than 5% or so.

~~~
culturestate
Bluetooth headphone sales passed wired headphone sales last year, even before
the iPhone 7 was announced [1]. I have to believe it’s only gone up from
there.

1\. [https://qz.com/745108/wireless-headphone-sales-just-hit-a-
ti...](https://qz.com/745108/wireless-headphone-sales-just-hit-a-tipping-
point/)

------
post_break
It looks great, I hope Google can keep up the shipments. I really like the
white and black XL, and the orange button really reminds me of Dieter Rams
calculator from Braun.

------
Decabytes
Is there a way to remove the auto-scanning and microphone listening features?
I have an Iphone so I don't know. Every phone does this now I know. It just
seems weird that it is brought up so non-chalantly in the article. Like I
guess we are just okay with this now.

~~~
anderber
On the original Pixel there is, I assume it would be the case with the new
one.

------
Kevin_S
Seems pretty nice.

I may consider the Pixel 2 XL over the IPhone X in a few months, but will
definitely need to see some reviews of both first.

The removal of the headphone jack is devastating. I listen to music nearly
every waking moment, so I am unsure about moving to Bluetooth whenever I use
headphones.

~~~
threeseed
It comes with a 3.5mm dongle in the box.

Just do what everyone else does and leave it attached to your headphones.

~~~
WillPostForFood
How do you leave it attached when you plug it into your laptop and how do you
listen while you charge? Great that it works for you, but having another
dongle that you can lose, and have to attach and remove throughout the day is
a real pain for others.

------
duxup
I wish Google would do a mid range Pixel, or call it something else if they
want, just something like a follow up to the 5x.

~~~
humblebee
I think this is what the Moto X4 is.

[https://www.blog.google/products/project-fi/project-fi-
welco...](https://www.blog.google/products/project-fi/project-fi-welcomes-
android-one-moto-x4/)

~~~
kuschku
The Moto X4 won’t get Android Preview Releases, and is therefore useless for
developers.

I’m a student, but I also develop apps. Even with the emulator, there are
still bugs you can only find on real devices.

So now every time a new Android version comes out, I’ll either end up with a
month where my apps are broken and I’m slowly working on fixing them (so ~10%
of the time the app is unusable), or I have to shell out north of $900 just to
get the cheapest still supported Pixel in Germany.

~~~
xyzzy_plugh
This is a good perspective I hadn't considered.

Additionally, my largest concern with no mid-range device supporting preview
releases is that the mid-range phone experience is going to decline rapidly
(slow downs, resource bloat) until the only viable equivalent experience to
what we have now is on a $1000+ phone. When phones were sub $500, I could get
a new one every two years pretty reasonably. Or if I didn't like my phone, it
wasn't a huge hit to upgrade early. But now I'm paying more than 2x what I
paid when I started using Android phones. At that price point, Apple starts to
look real good.

------
earlybike
Guess it’s for many a minor thing but why can’t the phone just be symmetric
(top and bottom bezel have the same height)?

~~~
mattnewton
The top of the phone’s bezel contains a camera, and the bottom doesn’t. Why do
you want a larger chin with wasted space? The pixel 1’s chin always bothered
me for that reason.

~~~
oedenfield
I kind of like the chin on the Pixel 1 because I know I have another option to
grab the phone without touching the touchscreen.

------
vthallam
Looks great for $849. The camera is amazing with a 98 Dxo score. Also, the
free unlimited Photo and Video storage is a great deal.

Only conern is the inventory, they make 100 pieces and do marketing for a
million, I don't understand the logic, smh.

------
Tossrock
Is that a broken link in a major Google product release blog post? Gasp!
Screenshot for posterity:
[https://i.imgur.com/r7TpRQY.png](https://i.imgur.com/r7TpRQY.png)

------
bfrog
No headphone jack, twice as much as my nexus 5x. You lost me and my family as
a customer for both phones and service.

------
royal_ts
The € price is ridiculously higher than the $ price. The smaller pixel costs
799€ which includes 19% of taxes (in Germany), the 649$ does not contain
taxes. Still that's a difference of 150€ on top of my hat. There's also a fee
which manufactures have to pay (GEMA which collects money for artists and so
on). Guess they also include that Google Home Mini in this price which is
kinda dumb. Not going to buy with such a huge price bump

~~~
dustinmr
If that includes 19% taxes, than its a €30 or 4% difference on the pretax
pricing. Not very big really. Especially, if there's other fees they pay to
sell the product in your territory.

~~~
vetinari
I don't know how you came to 30 EUR difference.

    
    
        649 USD = 552 EUR
        552 * 1.2 (20% VAT) = 662
        799 - 662 = 137
    

The difference is 137 EUR (161 USD). That's quite a coin.

------
fnl
This phone is as expensive as the latest iOS phones, at least ball-park wise.
Yet, Google only supports its hardware for two years, while Apple does so for
four, at least (still too little, but at least twice as good). I am using a
"bricked" Nexus 5 right now and need to update because I get no more updates.
No more Google phones for me, unless they cost half or less than the current
iPhones.

------
irrational
I'm very disappointed they didn't drop the price of the 1st generation Pixels
more. There was a 1 day sale on the Pixels earlier this year (that included a
free Google Home device) that was much lower than what they have dropped them
to today. My wife's Nexus 5 recently died. I had hoped to get her the 1st
generation Pixel to replace it, but I'll probably get her the iPhone SE
instead.

------
TsomArp
I bought a second-hand Pixel on Ebay. The seller sent it complete with boxes,
manual, etc. After 6 months it received an OTA and now is a 600 dollars
paperweight. They tell me that since the phone, which is not reported stolen,
is assigned to another account they cannot do anything about it. I have
contacted the seller but she won't respond. Be aware of this.

~~~
kilroy123
Have you tried sideloading an update manually? It's really easy and quick to
do.

[https://developers.google.com/android/ota](https://developers.google.com/android/ota)

~~~
TsomArp
I will try it. I tried to get into download mode and recovery, and no luck.

------
grrrtttt
Oh dear. And I'm already seeing stock issues also. Pre-orders for the 2 XL in
B&W just went "out of stock".

------
dirtylowprofile
Android Nougat still 17.8% on the market.

I've been developing Android apps since 2011, and Android development is
getting worse. The support I have to deal with goes back to Android 4.4 which
is like 4-5 years ago. And the phones in the market here in Asia are still
mostly on 6.0. I am no longer getting excited for Android releases anymore.

------
mastazi
Very underwhelming.

The camera solution they adopted is technologically inferior to the (much more
common) dual wide/tele lens solution, since the former offers only some of the
advantages of the latter (e.g. bokeh: yes, 2X optical zoom: no).

And they gave that guy who retrofitted a headphone jack in the iPhone 7 a
reason to come out with a new video.

------
izzydata
I love my Nexus 5X, but the high end phone market has no appeal to me. I don't
need a phone that can do 5% more and cost 150% more. I'm not sure why anyone
needs a phone like this really.

Perhaps the Nexus 5X is only good because it is basically an LG G phone.

------
Multicomp
I wonder if Nexus 6 users would move to the Pixel XL2? I love that it has
stereo front-facing speakers with the full 6 inch screen, but as Darth Shamu
said: "I find your lack of a headphone jack disturbing"

------
warrenmiller
No wireless charging?

~~~
stephengillie
Wireless charging can't provide enough amps to actually charge newer Google
devices. Nexus phones had them through the 5/7, but lost them with the 5x/6p.

My Nexus 5 wall charger can't even push enough amps to charge my Nexus 5x.

Edit: Does the new iPhone use the same wireless chargers as older phones? Can
you use it with those Ikea lamps with wireless charging? Or does it use a
different/less lossy transmission method?

~~~
wvenable
I wirelessly fast-charge my Samsung S7; I'm not sure where you got the idea
that it doesn't work.

~~~
chrisper
Is your phone getting super hot while wireless charging?

~~~
asah
No, I've been using wireless charging every day for nearly two years (Samsung
s6)

------
Abishek_Muthian
In my experience with Nexus (4&6P), it always had microphone issues (person on
the other side not being able hear you for first few minutes); since I always
used Bluetooth headset for calls; I didn’t bother much.

But I’ve seen some good support cases from Google for nexus, my friend
exchanged his nexus 4 after a year out of warranty by sending to US though; it
was not bought from Google in India. I hope the support would be better for
Pixel series of devices now that they own the manufacturer responsibility.

------
jordache
how can an adjacent pixel be used to calculate depth map. Are they telling me
the sensor and their algorithm is that sensitive to generate none binary depth
info from adjacent pixels?

------
martin1975
Thanks Google. Even with your $400 trade in refund, I think I'll stick with my
original Google Pixel XL and forego marginal improvements and no 3.5mm jack on
the phone itself. Forget your USB-C->3.5mm plugin... it's a pathetic attempt
to move us away from wired to wireless headphones which never will work as
well as 3.5 mm headsets/buds.

In fact, if you don't shape up in a year or so by the time I will upgrade, I'm
probably going back to Moto, or getting a Samsung...

~~~
Spooks
I think wireless will eventually work as well, but that future is not now (or
close to it). This would have to improve first: Sound quality, battery life
(both for the phone, as bluetooth needs to be on, and headphone) and price

~~~
martin1975
When they make bluetooth earbuds that have same quality sound as Etymotic
ER4's, I'll switch then... the likelihood of that happening is virtually nil.
reply

------
seltzered_
Motion photos - if I'm understanding correctly this is basically "motion
stills"[1] integrated into the main camera app. It takes three seconds of
video, but no photo with it like in live photos.

[1]:
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.and...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.motionstills)

------
bhuga
My pixel hardware has been a disappointment. The vibrator actually broke off
from the phone and it now just makes a rattling noise as it bounces around
inside the phone. The screen scratches easily. Bluetooth pops and crackles.

I couldn't have imagined buying a second pixel, so removing the saving grace,
the headphone jack, almost seems gratuitous.

~~~
slavik81
> The screen scratches easily.

This is an understatement. After I got a few scratches on my Galaxy S4 from
putting my phone in my pocket with keys, I made sure I would never make that
mistake again. I was extra-cautious with my Pixel, but after less than a year
of ownership it's is already the most scratched-up phone I've ever had.

------
pier25
I'd love to buy a Pixel phone (1 or 2) but Google doesn't sell where I live
just South of the border.

------
CharlesDodgson
Bit of a side conversation here, but is anyone else jaded that the only real
options are iOS and Android?

------
notatoad
$649/$849

it looks like a nice phone, but i have a hard time understanding how it's 5-7x
better than my xiaomi.

~~~
stephengillie
I paid $200 for my Nexus 5x. Not looking forward to paying 2.5x to retain the
same phone-utility in the future.

~~~
ssijak
My Nexus 5x runs like crap, very slow and closes apps when I do 2-3 things at
a time (music, gym app, browser for example). I tried everything, reinstalled
7.X system, installed 8.0 on launch, removed most of the apps... Btw, removing
facebook and messenger apps helped very much. Now I use messenger lite and
don`t use facebook on the phone (thanks, Google :) ). Was waiting for new
phone releases, but maybe for the first time I will try an iPhone, I just hope
iOS is not that limited and bad any more.

------
Grazester
Its DX0 score is 98

~~~
jimmies
I own a Pixel but this DxO stuff is really dodgy.

In the portrait pic of the girl, the difference between the Pixel 2 [1] and
the iPhone 8 [2] is night and day, with the Pixel 2 looking like shit. She so
pale, and the fake bokeh looks like a 5 year old smearing all over, it's
simply not pleasant to look at.

And the whole push on adding the fake bokeh """scores""" to justify changing
the scores so every fucking newly released device gets the highest score is
stupid. Thanks for scoring the bokeh, if I had really wanted bokeh, I would
have pulled out my bulky mirrorless camera.

I bet when a new phone comes out and they pay the DxO guy enough, they will
add a dog nose filter score to make the new camera score the highest.

1: A [https://cdn.dxomark.com/wp-
content/uploads/2017/10/ref1_Boke...](https://cdn.dxomark.com/wp-
content/uploads/2017/10/ref1_Bokeh-Indoor_GooglePixel2-e1506967768712.jpg)

B [https://cdn.dxomark.com/wp-
content/uploads/2017/10/ref2_Lowl...](https://cdn.dxomark.com/wp-
content/uploads/2017/10/ref2_Lowlight_GooglePixel2.jpg)

2: A [https://cdn.dxomark.com/wp-
content/uploads/2017/10/ref1_Boke...](https://cdn.dxomark.com/wp-
content/uploads/2017/10/ref1_Bokeh-Indoor_ip8Plus.jpg)

B [https://cdn.dxomark.com/wp-
content/uploads/2017/10/ref2_Lowl...](https://cdn.dxomark.com/wp-
content/uploads/2017/10/ref2_Lowlight_ip8Plus-e1506980596843.jpg)

~~~
monort
It's post-processing, not the quality of the sensor, photo from iPhone have
warmer color balance.

If you compare the right eyebrow, you will see that [1] have more details,
than [2]

~~~
jimmies
That might be true, but I'd say if they say their expertise is to have
artificial intelligence, then by that I'd like to have the picture that is the
most pleasant to look at. By that benchmark, and I can confidently say that 1
is definitely not more pleasant to look at than 2.

Remember, the picture is always a depiction of what our eyes see, and that our
eyes see is only a part of the reality. My eyes don't see bokehs. My eyes
don't focus the same way the camera does. My eyes don't see in 3500K or 6500K
or whatever the hell that is. My eyes don't care how many strands of hair
there are in her eyebrows and how detailed they are. My eyes don't see in
black and white, either. Yet those are what you see in pictures. Focusing on
the little detail "accuracy" and forget what it really matters at the end is
dangerous.

------
p-funk
I was really looking forward to this phone. Lack of headphone jack = instant
dealbreaker.

------
fnwx17
As creepy as the increased invasion of privacy on the Google phones, the most
disturbing is the Google Clips camera. That's literally how the movie "The
Circle" started (although it's a pretty bad movie).

------
niuzeta
> Though there is some bad news this year: the headphone jack is gone.

Expected, but it still stings. I guess I'll look elsewhere for my replacement
for trusty Nexus 5X. Speaking of which, how's Pixel?

~~~
junnan
Great software and camera. But having seen pixel 2 xl, I find the bezel on my
pixel really intolerable.

~~~
niuzeta
I don't really mind bezel; it's the lack of headphone jack that I take
exception on.

------
Lon7
I really really hope they have fixed their supply issues this time around. I
live in the 4th largest city in North America and I was unable to get a Pixel
within a reasonable amount of time.

~~~
TaylorAlexander
Same. I waited for weeks for the Pixel to be in stock last year. I finally
bought an iPhone 7 Plus after being all android since the T-Mobile G1. I love
it, and it shipped in like 24 hours! I was blown away that google couldn’t
provide a phone to those that wanted it. (Note: I wanted to max out storage
and I wanted the XL. There was stock on models with the least storage.)

I really hope they can keep these in stock.

------
mastax
An LG G6 for $350 more†.

\+ Software updates

\+ Camera software (probably)

\+ Squeezing

\- Dual camera

Did I miss anything?

†Yes it's unfair to compare speculated launch price to current store price but
that's the decision I'm making right now.

~~~
kllrnohj
Snapdragon 835 instead of 821, 64GB base instead of 32GB, OLED w/ always-on
display instead of IPS

~~~
mastax
Good points. I had assumed base storage would be 32GB for all time, that
recent phones would use the same processor, and that LGs OLED investments had
trickled down to their own devices. Times, they are a changing.

------
user-on1
the rounded corners on the pixel 2 xl just looks ugly... dont u guys think...

Also the huge bezels in pixel 2...

seems like these announcements just boil down to nothing...

at least those headphones could have been individual device without a need for
pixel or if it needs to be paired then at least it should have been around $50

it is basically just a total waste of time, it was fun to listen to those new
music in the event though...

------
limeblack
Does anyone know how consistent the squeeze feature is on phones that have
already implemented such?

~~~
oedenfield
At least with latest Android OS you can replace the Assistant with other
options/apps.

------
lenkite
Buy OnePlus phones instead of expensive crap. OnePlus is cheap, reliable and
replaceable.

------
jacquesc
Dropped my Pixel 1 in a toilet. Glad the Pixel 2 is water proof. Preordered!

------
gordon_freeman
Thanks but no thanks. I love my Nexus 6P a lot (still)!

~~~
sudarshan_sar
Same boat. It's still a fantastic phone and meets all the demands and then
some! The the only reason to switch might be the battery life. Still not a
serious enough issue to switch, yet.

------
seaghost
There is no privacy with those devices.

------
hitekker
The pixel 2 was made by HTC and pixel 2xl was made by LG.

Two manufacturers for what should be the same phone.

There are no words.

------
make3
the smaller one looks like a stictly worse oneplus5

------
beams_of_light
How could they neglect wireless charging and the headphone jack?

------
Akujin
I currently have a Nexus 6P. It was the flagship before the Pixel series. I
use Bluetooth headphones daily on my commute using the Philly subway system
(SEPTA). In center city and around suburban station I experience sound cutting
in and out all the time on two different wireless bluetooth headphones. It
seems to work just fine in my apartment when I don't need it but is never
reliable when there's a ton of other signals around.

I can't stand the current state of the industry. New phones cost more but
offer little in terms of value. They also look like trash. Who actually
thought it was a good idea to make a flag ship phone have a two tone plastic
case?

I'll be sticking to my aluminum cased 6P for a while. I'm also likely to get
it again when this one finally dies. There's absolutely nothing that makes me
want a Samsung or a Google branded Android phone right now.

~~~
AcerbicZero
I used the 6P for a fair amount of time, but I think the Nexus 5 was still the
high water mark for Nexus phones. Cheap, great hardware, durable, and
perfectly sized.

That said, I would have kept my 6P if I had known how disappointing the Pixel
1 was going to be. Double the price without any useful changes just feels like
a rip off. No chance I'm going to throw more money at Google for another
mediocre product.

~~~
Akujin
This. So much this. I had the Nexus 5 as well.

The 6P offers me:

\- Aluminum case.

\- 1080p screen

\- 4K video recording

\- Slow-motion video recording @ 1080p 240fps

\- 12.3MP single shot

\- A good enough CPU for lag free web browsing, spotify, snapchat, instagram,
etc.

Why the fuck would I pay $700+ for a new phone for marginal improvements???

~~~
kuschku
Google just dropped support for the Nexus 5X and 6P, for unknown reasons. I
hate it. Now I have no options left. (I need a device that will get android
developer previews)

~~~
Akujin
I'm so done with Google. This would be like Microsoft ending security updates
for Windows 8.1 after only two years.

By the way you can get a custom rom from here: [https://forum.xda-
developers.com/nexus-6p/development](https://forum.xda-
developers.com/nexus-6p/development)

~~~
kuschku
Yes, but I need to support apps.

Some of my users are on Pixel devices and will get Android 9.0 the day it is
released, while in best case, the source code only drops a week later. So
assuming it takes me 10 minutes to fix all bugs, my app might crash for a
week.

Realistically, my apps would be at least a month unusable.

------
lepouet
I'm french, i would like Google to take my money.

------
noncoml
Why would anyone pay money to buy a phone from an advertising company?

~~~
the_common_man
Yeah, I feel Google should re-invent itself and make some bold decisions to
move out of it's ad business. They seem very capable of making excellent
products. Will their shareholders be up in arms if they got out slowly from
this add business?

Google Apps, Android, Pixel etc are really excellent products.

~~~
SapphireSun
Never gonna happen. Google can do the things it does because it holds monopoly
pricing in internet advertising. The freedom from competition and massive
capitalization is what allows it to invest in blue sky projects.

