
The Husband-And-Wife Team Behind the Web’s Most Infuriating Outdoor Retailer - andrewrice
http://www.outsideonline.com/2051821/123-mountain-infuriating-gear-retailer
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mikestew
Can't find an item anywhere else, yet one place claims to have dozens in their
warehouse? You can almost rest assured that this one place isn't a special
unicorn that has items no one else has. What you can reliably bet on is that
there's some scamming going on somewhere in the process. I can't tell you how
it's going to go, but at some point the company is going to behave
dishonestly.

Take these guys as an example:
[http://www.abesofmaine.com](http://www.abesofmaine.com). Abe's _used_ to be
good. Then Abe got out of the business, and someone else snapped up the name.
That someone did not share ol' Abe's ethics. Did you go to the link? Pick any
random item on that site, I'll just about guarantee they don't have it. Oh,
they'll have something _similar_ that they'll try to sell you using the
textbook definition of bait-and-switch. They'll tell you it's the same thing,
just a different version, or whatever. Read online reviews, and you'll get the
impression that their business plan must consist of one phrase: "bait-and-
switch". (I use Abe's as example because I tried to buy the last of the high-
end Samsung plasma TVs from them, thinking they were still the old Abe's. They
had them in stock, at a not-outrageous price. Oops, no they didn't.)

If you're going to spend $1000 on a jacket, check online reviews of the
vendor, and use a credit card that backs you up when you dispute the charge
(Amex comes to mind here; your Visa might offer the same, or it might not).

~~~
wodenokoto
While it is smart to take precautions, it still doesn't change the fact that
the operation is nothing but fraud, and the people behind should go to jail.

~~~
mikestew
I was not arguing that the two are mutually exclusive.

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pge
Having been through this with a different online retailer, I learned that not
shipping goods in a reasonable time frame is an FTC violation. The state
attorney general will almost certainly be able to prosecute successfully if
facts are as presented and supported by written documents. In my case, the
evidence I provided of a retailer not shipping product (and tracking down
other scammed customers through online complaints) resulted in a conviction.
Now, collecting damages is a different problem and unlikely because the
criminals will skip town if they are smart. But at least the judgement will
end that particular fraud and make it difficult for then to do business
elsewhere.

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Dr_tldr
And this is why Amazon or REI should remain the preferred option even if the
price is higher or the selection isn't as specialized. It's really strange
that people would think online shopping is now a universally safe and hassle-
free activity just because some reputable merchants do exist.

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wanderfowl
Brings to mind the old saying, which is extra applicable to e-commerce for
hard-to-find items: "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."

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lxmorj
Just use a damn credit card so that you have the option to contest the charge.
Visa/Mastercard/Amex don't fuck around with this shit.

~~~
taude
It mentions in the article that 123Mountain sent a credit-card chargeback to
collections against one of their customers.

~~~
ssanders82
How exactly does that work? I thought the credit card company was the final
arbiter of whether the charge was valid or not? If they decide it's not, can a
collection agency really enter the fray?

~~~
Someone1234
Credit card chargebacks don't trump contract law. If you establish a contract
with someone to pay X and you don't pay X then they could either sue you or
send a collections agency after you...

For most businesses if a customer conducts a chargeback even if they believe
they're in the "right" they rarely pursue it due to bad PR and that the cost
to pursue it may be more than the amount they're pursuing.

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dzdt
A year ago I almost ordered a pair of skis from 123mountain. They claimed to
have them in stock when almost all other retailers did not. Fortunately I did
some research before submitting the order and figured out they were likely
scammers.

