
Inside Tesla's gigantic Gigafactory - jsingleton
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36893104
======
Animats
The amount of publicity associated with this battery pack plant is a bit much.
Tesla's battery factory is about the same size as LG's battery factory in
Michigan.[1] That's the source of the Chevy Volt battery packs. (LG is adding
a fourth production line for an undisclosed customer.) That's just one of LG's
plants. They make the batteries for the Chevy Bolt in South Korea.

There are large EV battery plants in operation or under construction all over
the place. US, UK, Germany, Korea, China... VW is planning a plant bigger than
Tesla's full sized expansion.

Nissan has the largest lithium-ion battery plant in North America right
now.[2] They're building a bigger one in the UK.

[1] [http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1101606_ford-wants-to-
de...](http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1101606_ford-wants-to-develop-its-
own-battery-chemistries-for-hybrids-electric-cars-but-why)

[2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBboW2Sw3Co](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBboW2Sw3Co)

~~~
rgbrenner
I found some actual numbers for the LG Chem plant. They currently produce
650MWH worth of battery cells per year, and they expect to expand that to 3GWH
within a couple of years.

This is definitely smaller than what is planned for Gigafactory.

[http://www.autonews.com/article/20151214/OEM06/312149992/lg-...](http://www.autonews.com/article/20151214/OEM06/312149992/lg-
chem-quietly-surges-in-battery-race)

~~~
tcoppi
Thanks. If that number is right, their top number is less than 1/5th of the
originally planned Gigafactory top number.

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twelfthnight
Serious question: My impression is that when Verizon bought Yahoo (for 5
Billion), this was a pretty standard affair M&A. However, this Gigafactory has
the same price tag but is met with the question "Does Elon Musk have more
money than sense?" How are M&A purchases different from direct investments in
a company?

~~~
tcoppi
Verizon currently makes a profit, Tesla doesn't[1].

1\. They might be able to run a profit without R&D expenses, but that wouldn't
make any sense at this point, so they are bleeding money and need to raise
capital constantly.

~~~
mikeash
Tesla doesn't make a profit, and they're spending billions on a factory that
will make a valuable product with good margins.

Verizon makes a profit, and they're spending billions on a failed company.

I don't really see how the profit status of the _acquirer_ is relevant. What
matters is the profit potential of what's being acquired.

~~~
tcoppi
Tesla /might/ make a valuable product with good margins from the factory. I
would rate that chance as greater than 90% personally, but it still isn't
certain. Just like it isn't certain that Yahoo is a failed acquisition for
Verizon, although you and I might rate the chance of that as quite high.

The profit of the acquirer is relevant in so far as it relates to the ability
to finance massive acquisition projects such as these, and the market's
willingness to do so. I'd say in both instances the market's willingness has
been high, but people have good reasons to be skeptical both ways.

~~~
mikeash
Profit and ability to finance aren't quite the same, though. So far, capital
markets have been willing to give Tesla big piles of money with excellent
terms (buying issued stock at a price that values the company similarly to
major automakers and such) so they seem to have no trouble financing the
Gigafactory.

Verizon may well have access to more money, but then that just supports the
first half of "more money than sense."

------
LittleSpider
I call to your attention a series of three blogs written by someone who had
the opportunity to interview Elon Musk himself before the writing.

I, for one, think that big thoughts, big visions, and big ability to implement
them can't help but change the direction of humanity.

[http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/05/elon-musk-the-worlds-
raddest-m...](http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/05/elon-musk-the-worlds-raddest-
man.html)

------
lumberjack
If you do the math, best case scenario: Tesla's budget model will have twice
the range (~200 miles) of the Nissan Leaf at the same price point ($30k). This
assumes that Tesla is capable of a $35k model today. My estimate for a 200
mile battery power pack today is around $20,000 going by what amateur EV
enthusiasts have managed, using the same 18650 cells.

~~~
maxerickson
It's seems a little unlikely that the Leaf would see 0 progress.

There's also a Bolt in the room. It's pretty likely to ship this year, with a
200 mile range and competitive price point.

~~~
tcoppi
The Bolt is probably the closest competitor to what Tesla is doing right now
for EVs. They have the range, but they still haven't figured out styling or
performance, nor is the charging infrastructure as robust yet.

~~~
protomyth
Doesn't the Bolt use a fairly standard charging cable? I see those connectors
in parking garages and grocery store parking lots.

~~~
NickM
Unfortunately, most of the public charging stations out there are pretty
pointless due to their slow charging speed.

Without faster charging, you can't do long-distance travel (nobody wants to
stop for 4-8 hours in the middle of a road trip to recharge), so the only
value they offer is for longer charging sessions while the driver is already
in the area for work/shopping/etc. However, even then, you can't really rely
on their availability, since it's always possible someone will already be
there tying up the station for an 8-hour stretch...so they really aren't
terribly useful or convenient for the vast majority of EV owners.

I would argue that the only charging network out there that really makes sense
is Tesla's Supercharger network: it actually charges fast enough to make road
trips practical, is generally quite reliable, and typically includes at least
6-8 stalls per station to avoid congestion during peak travel times. This
gives Tesla a _huge_ competitive advantage over other EV manufacturers, and I
think it'll be a long time before anyone catches up to them in this regard.

~~~
tcoppi
A slower charging network could be useful for putting a charging station at
every parking space at say workplaces, where your car will be left for an
extended time Slower chargers are presumably cheaper to build and run, so they
might make more sense there. But otherwise completely agreed that
superchargers are basically the only type of charger that makes sense for 99%
of the rest of use cases that a gas station would normally take care of.

~~~
NickM
Yeah if there were parking garages or lots where every parking space had a
charging port, that would be awesome, and could actually be part of a
practical solution in the long term. Unfortunately most garages I've seen have
somewhere from zero to two spots in the entire garage :(

~~~
greglindahl
Facebook HQ has around 150 L2 chargers. It's just a matter of time.

~~~
Teever
I'm not exactly sure what facebook having 150 car chargers has to do with the
rest of the world getting car chargers.

~~~
greglindahl
They aren't the only company with more than 0-2 chargers per parking lot, I
could name a bunch of others. The point I'm making is that more chargers are
on the way.

------
mkj
Seems clickbait to me! Most of the pictures are _outside_ the gigafactory.

~~~
forgetsusername
Tesla is dialed into how modern media works. Every press release makes it to
HN and other tech sites, who proudly proclaim "No marketing budget!"

It's genius.

------
dghughes
The completed Tesla Gigafactory area will be bigger than the town I live in
population 50,000 people.

Comparison overlay
[https://i.imgur.com/ixHBkyw.png](https://i.imgur.com/ixHBkyw.png)

Each side of the red square is approx. 3.75km

~~~
dghughes
Correction: Total land area, I guess the factory itself is about a quarter of
the entire factory complex land area.

------
iamleppert
Why does it take such a huge factory to make batteries? FWIW, I work with LiPo
batteries for my R/C hobby. Granted, these batteries are likely a lot more
complex, but the same basic principle remains. I'd imagine most of the
assembly could be automated. Anyone know why it takes so many people?

~~~
_ph_
Because they plan to produce as many batteries in it as the world production
was in 2014 all together.

------
woodandsteel
If it works, this will be a win-win for Panasonic and Tesla. Panasonic gets to
vastly increase its battery sales, and Tesla gets all the batteries it needs
and at a much lower price. So it is not surprising they have gotten together
in this venture.

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jsingleton
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