

Think Computer Foundation Sues U.S. Courts over PACER Fees - thinkcomp
http://www.plainsite.org/dockets/29himg3wm/california-northern-district-court/think-computer-foundation-et-al-v-administrative-office-of-the-united-states-courts-et-al/

======
rahimnathwani
The complaint covers at least two (areas):

1\. PACER end-user pricing is above the cost of providing the service.

2\. There are regulations in place which prevent or impede companies from
being represented by themselves (or, I guess, their officers/employees?) in
court, thus giving lawyers a monopoly.

The American Bar Association is listed as a defendant in the suit.

@thinkcomp I'm curious what outcome you are hoping for, and how high the
chance you think achieving that is?

~~~
thinkcomp
I'm hoping for a few things.

1\. Public discussion. People talk about income equality a lot. This is in
large part where it comes from: the way the cases arrive at the court's
doorstep is incredibly skewed to start with. And once you're in court, the
bias continues.

2\. An injunction changing the rules. As much as I'd like it to be, I don't
expect that PACER will be free, but it shouldn't be this expensive. And I
shouldn't be forced to hire a lawyer if I don't want to.

3\. Modernization of the courts. The courts are able to lag the rest of the
economy in technology because no one ever pops their bubble; the judges think
everything is fine. Everything is not fine--but it requires a precise
articulation of why it's not fine to get their attention. I'm not sure I've
achieved that, but I've at least tried.

~~~
ensignavenger
I just want to say thank you for fighting this fight. These are issues I have
wanted to take up, but unfortunately have not had the resources to do so.
Again, thank you.

------
tzs
PACER pricing is ridiculous. From their FAQ:

\------- begin quote -------

PACER charges $0.10 per page retrieved. This applies to both the pages of
search results and the pages of documents you retrieve.

The charge for any single document is capped at $3.00, the equivalent of 30
pages. The cap does not apply to name searches, reports that are not case-
specific, and transcripts of federal court proceedings.

If you accrue a total of less than $15.00 worth of charges in any given
quarter, fees are waived for that quarter.

\------- end quote -------

I can understand charging for document pages, but for search results pages?

------
DanBC
The tag [Aaron Swartz], and Exhibit B, feel incompatible with the footer:
"Please do not bulk download information from this web site without prior
permission."

~~~
thinkcomp
There's a difference between government and private entities. The Foundation
literally can't afford to allow the entire world to download 100GB of legal
data each; we're already over our data center quota many months. The United
States government has a bit more to work with in the way of resources.

The case is tagged Aaron Swartz because Aaron Swartz is mentioned in the
complaint.

~~~
dfc
Aaron is mentioned in passing and is not related to any cause of action (if
for no other reason than you lack standing to bring a case related to his
death) that I could find in the claim. I must say that attaching his name to
the case fails my personal "ickyness test."

Have you reached out to Carl Malamud[^1] and/or the folks at archive.org? I
have a feeling they might be willing/able to help defray some of the bandwidth
costs.

[^1]: One of the few people I consider personal heroes.

~~~
thinkcomp
Sorry you feel that way.

As the Defendants in the case attempt to think of ways to get it dismissed,
one strategy that will almost certainly cross their mind is the "it doesn't
matter" argument.

Of course, it does matter. Aaron Swartz is proof. What the AO, FBI, Secret
Service and DOJ did to him is the icky part, not this lawsuit.

PlainSite makes use of RECAP and archive.org's infrastructure, and I'm working
with them on a new project as well. I think Carl has his hands full with the
IRS.

The point of the disclaimer is not to prevent access--it's to provide a
warning to the Russian and Chinese scrapers running up the bill (and I'm not
even sure why they care about U.S. court data in bulk).

------
dfc
Fighting PACER is god's work; requiring flash in order to display logos for
the instant parties is the devil's.

------
pbreit
I give Aaron a hard time (on the payments stuff) but I do appreciate that he
generally has positive intent and deploys his cash and know-how in attempts to
improve things.

