

The new MacBook's single port comes with a security risk - kenperkins
http://www.theverge.com/2015/3/16/8226193/new-apple-macbook-usb-type-c-security-risk-badusb

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justinph
This is a mostly useless article. Every computer with USB ports has this
problem. If you want to use it as, you know, a computer, you're probably gonna
need to plug some stuff into it at one time.

You could make the argument that now that it has one port, it's easier to
secure because you only have to secure one side of the computer instead of
two.

~~~
zzleeper
Are you kidding? It means that if you go to a coffes hop and plug your laptop,
you can become compromised. Sure, random people in a starbucks won't, but it's
a boon for industrial espionage!

~~~
centizen
Just wondering, how does that mean that? The way I understand things that is
only possible if you use someone else's compromised power adapter.

I've never seen a coffee shop that supplied power adapters, it's always just a
bunch of power outlets. I think your safe for now.

~~~
TheLoneWolfling
I see plenty of coffee shops with wall sockets with USB ports for charging.
And they are typically being used. Same idea here.

~~~
coldtea
USB-C wall sockets? For charging laptops? I don't think so.

You're worrying for a coffee shop that doesn't even exist.

~~~
TheLoneWolfling
You could have said the same about USB wall sockets when USB first came out.

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aetherson
I upvoted, because it's a good thing to be aware of, but I don't think you can
call this a "major" security risk. It's not like you're going to see a million
people get attacked by a single charger cable out on the internet.

If you're someone who has a lot of really sensitive data on your laptop, sure.
But, then, most of those people are probably not all that interested in the
MacBook, and at any rate they should already be pretty cautious about physical
access to the sensitive machine.

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adrianm
The article (especially the headline) implies that the new Macbook is somehow
more at risk because of its reliance on one USB port. But if the root of the
problem is USB more generally, wouldn't the only "secure" design preclude the
inclusion of any USB ports whatsoever? My issue with the article is that by
singling out the Macbook (due to its single port) they are not actually
contributing any useful information back to the consumer about its potential
security. If I'm missing something, I would appreciate clarification.

~~~
placeybordeaux
If there is a USB port and a power port a super parinoid person could never
use the USB port, or even fill it with glue. Not an option here.

This is also talking about how combining them also allows for the potential of
charger based attacks, a charger is something that absolutely has to be
plugged in at some point.

~~~
jontro
I guess the paranoid user can use an usb condom if so.

~~~
stellar2014
Time to make usb-c syncsyop [http://syncstop.com/](http://syncstop.com/)

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placeybordeaux
This is written like it is a novel situation. Smart phones have had this
problem almost since inception.

Would be nice to see a hardware switch to deactivate the pins that aren't
needed for power.

~~~
Someone1234
That switch sounds like a tech' support nightmare. Even WiFi switches are a
massive PITA that are almost more trouble than they're worth.

I'd suggest that if people want safe USB that they just buy a USB "condom"
(i.e. an adapter that goes between the power and port, and disconnects the
data wires).

Although does USB-C use any of the data pins to determine if it is safe to
transmit power? I just ask because Apple's USB implementation sends different
amount of power based on how the device responds across several non-power
related pins.

~~~
masklinn
> Although does USB-C use any of the data pins to determine if it is safe to
> transmit power?

Power Delivery 2.0 signals via Vbus (the 5V line) and additionally via CC when
using the Type C connector. PD2 is specified for Type A, Type B and Type C
connectors.

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jontro
USB Type C does not support DMA as the article states. I think there might be
some confusion on the attack vector here. BadUSB requires cooperation from the
OS/BIOS/a driver.

~~~
Animats
Right. A USB device can't do anything unless the OS lets it.

We went through this with "autorun" on CDs and DVDs. For years, Windows would
run anything that looked executable if you put it in the obvious place. That
didn't end well. Those defaults were finally changed.

What's needed is to turn off automatic hot plugging for USB devices. The era
when you can plug in a USB device and have it go live without user interaction
is over. We're going to need clear OS dialogs - "The USB device you just
plugged in claims to be a keyboard - did you just plug in a keyboard?" You
should't be able to boot from a USB device without doing something to enter a
maintenance mode.

There's nothing special about USB Type C here. It's just that the asymmetry of
USB is being dealt with.

Asymmetrical USB has created an amusing hierarchy. Desktop computers were
masters. Phones were slaves. Then came tablets. Are they masters or slaves?

~~~
bentcorner
> The USB device you just plugged in claims to be a keyboard - did you just
> plug in a keyboard?

The problem with that is that you inevitably run into this dialog with nothing
else attached to the machine. How are you going to confirm the dialog?

Better to focus on isolating the keyboard driver from the rest of the OS, so
the only thing it should be able to do is read in input from the keyboard and
report it back to the OS.

~~~
masklinn
> The problem with that is that you inevitably run into this dialog with
> nothing else attached to the machine. How are you going to confirm the
> dialog?

That's only a serious issue for a keyboard, and for this specific situation
the keyboard could be segregated (globally inactive) and require a specific
sequence of action to be activated.

> Better to focus on isolating the keyboard driver from the rest of the OS, so
> the only thing it should be able to do is read in input from the keyboard
> and report it back to the OS.

The virtual keyboard can send whatever keypresses (and thus indirectly
commands) it wants to the system.

------
hsshah
I have a similar concern with charging my phone using USB ports in public
places. Got a reminder last week while returning from an international trip.
The plane had both power outlet and USB port for charging (Really glad they
had them there). To charge my phone, first I connected to USB port (since I
had the cable handy)and surprisingly got a message about authorizing the
computer etc. I had the power adapter as well so pulled it out and charged
using it instead.

We need a way to give us assurance that port is in just power mode.

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drakenot
Isn't USB-c more secure because it doesn't have DMA like Thunderbolt does?

I've seen several articles on HN in the past year that detail serious
compromises that are possible via just plugging in a Thunderbolt cable.

~~~
rimunroe
I think so, but I am reminded of this sage advice:
[https://twitter.com/jdub/status/575887350158372864](https://twitter.com/jdub/status/575887350158372864)
> Never plug in an unknown USB key or cable. Never plug in an unknown
Lightning cable. Never touch computers. Everything is a computer. Run.

------
benmgreene
"On a standard machine, users worried about USB attacks could simply tape over
their ports"

^^ Oh yeah, that would do it. Damn Apple for disabling the tape-over fix!

