

The Gambler Who Blew $127 Million - cwan
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125996714714577317.html

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dantheman
I found it interesting that the wynn decided that he was on a self destructive
path and decided to ban him from their casino:

> In 2006, Mr. Watanabe resided primarily at Wynn Resorts' Wynn Las Vegas
> casino. But, he says, his heavy betting drew the attention of Chief
> Executive Steve Wynn. After meeting with him in June 2007, Mr. Wynn
> concluded that he was a compulsive gambler and alcoholic, and barred him
> from the casino, according to a letter to the Nevada Gaming Control Board
> drafted by Mr. Watanabe's attorney, Pierce O'Donnell.

> Ms. Jones, the Harrah's vice president, says, "It was not our understanding
> that he was kicked out of Wynn because of problem gambling."

Whereas at Caesars:

>Mr. Kunder and Mr. Deleon say they both voiced concerns to managers that Mr.
Watanabe was too intoxicated, and were told not to get involved. "Nobody
wanted to be the one to cut him off," Mr. Kunder says. "We were afraid of what
upper management would do if he left because of our actions."

I think that its the moral responsibility for any company to not sell products
that harm their customers; they should refuse to do business with those who
are throwing their life away. Now this is not a legal responsibility, but
merely doing what is ethical.

For instance: 1\. Bar or Package Store that refuses to sell alcohol to
alcoholics 2\. McDonalds refuses to sell unhealthy foods to the morbidly obese
3\. Firearm dealer refuses to sell weapons to the suicidal.

Also, can credit be extended to an intoxicated person? Do they have footage of
when the credit was extended?

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ryanwaggoner
Sadly, in our society, that's often not possible. McDonald's would almost
certainly face class action litigation in your 2nd example.

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lionhearted
Found this the most interesting part of the article:

> Nevada treats unpaid gambling debt as a criminal matter handled by the
> District Attorney's bad-checks unit. Most defendants agree to pay the debt
> through a payment plan before charges are filed, with around 10% tacked on
> to fund the D.A. unit. Clark County, which encompasses Las Vegas, prosecutes
> roughly 200 cases involving gambling debts a month, says Bernie Zadrowski,
> who runs the bad-checks unit.

Unpaid gambling debts seems like it'd be a civil matter to me - pretty crazy
that it's criminal, and defendants pay an additional 10% to the state on top
of it.

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ryanwaggoner
Agreed, just came here to post that. What's particularly amazing is that the
casino might not actually be out any money, depending on what you were
playing. In any other state, you can borrow $1000 from a bank, burn it, and
then face the consequences to your credit score, bankruptcy, etc. But
apparently in Nevada, if I borrow $1000 from the casino, pour it down their
slot machines, and then walk out without paying, they can have me prosecuted
and jailed, even though they got their $1000 back. Bizarre.

~~~
sokoloff
If you lent me $1000, and then offered me a fair coin flip for $1000, would
the fact that you "won" the coin flip and I stiffed you for the $1000 I
borrowed be adequate consolation?

If so, can I borrow $1000 and do you have a quarter on you?

~~~
Confusion
That's something entirely different from what ryanwaggoner sketches. The point
is whether this is a criminal or a civil case, not whether the casino should
get their money back.

~~~
sokoloff
I don't think the example is actually that different.

My response was to the point of "the casino might actually not be out any
money". If the outcome of the wager (that the casino won and "kept" the money)
is critical to determining how/whether a case is prosecuted, then you set the
casinos up to be free-rolled, which is the point I was making with my coin-
flip after loan analogy.

The moment Ryan beats me in the coin flip, he's "earned" $1000. If the law
differentiates at all whether he's entitled to be paid based on whether I
moments earlier borrowed $1000 from him, then I have a free-roll.

I borrow $1000 in cash, and bet $1000 in cash on heads.

Heads, I win $1000, pay the loan off and walk out with my $1000 profit.

Tails, I lose $1000, but I say "well, you have the money anyway, so you're not
actually out anything" and walk away with no more and no less money than I
started the day.

Mathematically, that's the same as Ryan _giving_ me $500 and us making a $500
wager on the coin.

I wasn't trying to address whether it should be civil or criminal; I tend to
agree it should be civil, but Nevada gets to make the rules for Nevada. I was
merely pointing out that whether or not the casino "kept" the money that it
beat the guy for is not relevant.

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raheemm
Guy gambles away $127 million and turns around to sue the casinos - only in
America!

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brent
I don't think gamblers suing casinos for millions lost is purely an American
phenomenon. There have been similar cases (perhaps a less substantial
magnitude) in at least France, England, Australia, and South Korea.

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ct
No sympathy for him.

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gojomo
Some people have persistent decisionmaking flaws that make them engage in
compulsive, self-destructive behavior. Sometimes these bad decisions cascade
in a self-reinforcing cycle -- as with intoxication and intoxicant addictions.

Are these people fair game for however much profit can be extracted as they
self-destruct? Should competing firms race to break them first?

~~~
brandnewlow
A lot of businesses make their money by making it as easy as possible or those
people to make these sorts of bad decisions. Video poker in bars?

~~~
houseabsolute
To look at it another way, bars in general. On some level most services you
can provide will be detrimental to some of the people consuming them. It's
hard to say where to draw the line. But I think based on how heavily regulated
gambling is even in Nevada, as a society we've decided that is about as close
to the line as we want to get.

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MikeCapone
And he's now facing up to 28 years in jail. Way to blow it, dude.

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jasonlbaptiste
haha, he's the heir to oriental trading. that's a lot of noise makers down the
drain.

