
Suggest HN: Force downvoters to punch in why - digitalarborist
If you&#x27;re going to bestow the gray text of shame, you should have to provide an explanation why such that noobs, such as myself, can better understand HN zeitgeist. If it&#x27;s due to ideology, such as: Functional programming is literally the second coming of Jesus Christ. Elon Musk is a hero, why are you not already in line to offer him sexual favors? It doesn&#x27;t follow the HN terms or was simply puerile or poorly written.<p>I&#x27;m glad downvoting was removed for new users because it is usually just used to indicate that you disagree with a point of view, though the HN elites seem just as fallible if not more fallible in this regard.
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brudgers
At some point, I started treating downvotes as feedback on my writing. So I
would take another look at what I wrote. Maybe I did not make my point
clearly. Maybe what I said was wrong. Maybe it just wasn't worth saying. Maybe
I was an asshat. Then I would edit it or delete it or leave it alone...and
I've consciously left asshat comments alone because sometimes my intent was to
be an asshat.

All of that still applies, though I am more likely to delete something I wrote
these days and hopefully less likely to be an asshat because I try to avoid
being one.

Anyway, sometimes I downvote in disagreement. It is often a better alternative
to writing the nonconstructive thing I'd otherwise be inclined to write
because what I'm inclined to write is the sort of comment I don't want to read
on Hacker News. It's not the sort of comment I usually want to write either.

That sort of comment I don't want to read includes the sort of comment that
provides a lot of entertainment elsewhere on the internet...we've all seen it:
clever insulting outrage [feigned and real] written to win.

Anyway:

1\. the guidelines suggest not commenting about being downvoted.

2\. Questions about the site can be directed to the moderators via the contact
link.

3\. Good luck.

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
I agree, that a lot of downvotes are caused by tone, writing style, or
clarity. However there's also a lot of downvotes caused simply by being
against the consensus. And while I feel like sometimes people are against the
group-think just for the sake of it (or to ruffle feathers) there are also
times when a healthy dose of alternative viewpoints can dampen the group-think
getting too extreme.

For example, just yesterday there was a thread talking about the US turning
root DNS over to the UN. This thread turned into a jingoistic nightmare
talking about how awesome America is, how they're the only true bastion of
freedom, and how the rest of the world is a savage freedom hating backwater.
That thread desperately needed more counter-balance, but no doubt people like
myself were concerned that the groupthink became so focused that counter-
balance would have been met with swift and numerous down downvotes (and risk
site privileges because of being downvoted too heavily).

This isn't a complaint about downvotes, this is pointing out that downvotes
change posting behaviour both for good (i.e. stopping people being jerks) and
for bad (i.e. stopping opinion counter to the "group think").

~~~
brudgers
To me, the referenced discussion is the sort of context where if I'm outraged
enough to write a rebuttal to someone's political views, I'm probably better
off just downvoting...and so is the thread and so is HN.

There's no escalation. There's no feeding trolling behavior. There's no
toehold on my future: I won't be curious about replies. It's cathartic. One
click and I'm done expressing disagreement.

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Lordarminius
I up-voted this topic because it resonates with me.

Being relatively new to HN I was rather taken aback by the misuse of the down-
vote privilege by some people who capriciously wield it. I was even afraid to
mention it in case I got down-voted again, since my one experience with the
down-vote was when I requested for reasons why another contributors post had
been down-voted!

People who wield this power are long-term users who should aspire to a higher
standard. I welcome this push for accountability .

~~~
brudgers
Comments about downvotes are discouraged by the Hacker News guidelines. They
are often downvoted by people who feel such comments add little to the
discussion at hand. To me, it's rare for a comment about downvoting to add
anything to a discussion.

Which is not to imply that I dislike being downvoted any less than anyone
else.

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Mz
This would basically be all kinds of drama. You also could not trust the
feedback. Some people will down vote for terrible reasons, like a personal
grudge. They would not be honest about that.

Also, some down votes are a miss-click. It is now possible to unvote, but that
is recent and not everyone will notice if they fat fingered something.

I suggest you give more of your attention to the positive interactions. It is
possible to make that choice.

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ocdtrekkie
I think I've commented before on wanting to see this as well. Anonymous
downvotes are pretty much just meaningless negativity. I'd much rather have
the ability to see why I was downvoted, and tell other people why I downvoted
them. (I think this would make sense to only be visible to the downvoter and
the downvotee, to keep the visible public discussion constructive.)

~~~
digitalarborist
Tech folks always say communicating with huge corporations is similar to
communicating with a psychopath, but communicating online in general has this
feeling. You're not talking to anyone it's like talking to a brick wall that
will give you a pat or a prod after you give it a couple hours. I think I
might just not be up for online mob communication like this and will just go
back to lurking. I do have the desire to contribute, but it doesn't really
feel worth it a lot of the time.

~~~
type0
Completely agree, some threads feel like people are talking in the same voice.
The feeling is that you are not reading the conversation but some sort of
badly ordered essay. Absence of avatars is also the one to blame for this but
it also has a good effect that you don't judge written comments by the picture
next to it.

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type0
I can think of one way doing it. Maybe if its implemented anonymously with
several different reasons of multi-choice boxes. Somewhat the way you report
youtube-video abuse. Then attach those votes on why the comment got downvoted
to be visible when it's clicked on item id, with appropriate chart presented.

------
rer
I often thought of starting a news site exactly on this premise: having to
explain why.

Who wants it?

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GFK_of_xmaspast
They're just imaginary internet points.

~~~
digitalarborist
There was a time when Youtube view and subscriber count was similar. Now there
is a cadre of Youtube professionals whos careers live and die by these
numbers.

Also, neither I nor anyone else cares about the points, I don't expect to
spend them at the karma store. What I do care about, as I'm sure you do as
well, is whether something I said is incorrect and why.

~~~
GFK_of_xmaspast
I care about being correct, I don't care if the hacker news commentariat
agrees with what I say.

~~~
digitalarborist
I'm sorry, but I have to ask, if you don't care what we all think, why do you
bother talking to us at all?

~~~
babyrainbow
Not the OP. But I think even if you disagree, I can provoke thought or
encourage you to look at things from a different angle...

