
Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars - steven
https://backchannel.com/microsoft-weaponizes-minecraft-in-the-war-over-classrooms-69e2bf3174f3#.wnp29ic4u
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vblord
My son has done many Minecraft programming courses. He even did a Minecraft
programming summer camp. If it wasn't with Minecraft, he wouldn't have done
it. I think bringing Minecraft in to the schools to teach development is the
right move. I wish all schools would embrace that. It would get the kids
excited to learn... unlike... well... everything else besides gym, lunch, and
recess.

From programming aspect, Minecraft makes perfect sense. From a math/geometry
perspective, I'd have to see it to believe it. But one thing is for sure...
the kids will line up to take that class.

~~~
marcstreeter
Care to share any of the minecraft courses you had your son do? Particularly
the more successful ones. I'm homeschooling and would like to get my kids on
that train since they're already enamored with Minecraft. I'm just not
interested in paying for something they'll end up ignoring.

~~~
vblord
He did it through a local company:
[http://www.gamestartschool.org](http://www.gamestartschool.org)

They also just started getting Tynker at school. I think it's optional at
school though.
[https://www.tynker.com/minecraft/](https://www.tynker.com/minecraft/)

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thr0waway1239
Considering Chromebooks barely entered the market only about 4 years back.

"In 2015, Chromebooks topped 50 percent of personal computer sales in the U.S.
K-12 education market for the first time, with Windows PCs trailing at 22
percent, according to a Futuresource Consulting report."

And looking at the chart in the report [1] is even stranger - Chromebooks have
basically gone from 16% of yearly device sales to 50% of yearly device sales
[2] in exactly two years. Does anyone else finds the numbers a little hard to
believe? Don't the schools have any costs in migrating their systems to
support Chromebooks?

[1] [http://www.futuresource-
consulting.com/2016-03-K-12-Educatio...](http://www.futuresource-
consulting.com/2016-03-K-12-Education-Computer-Sales-8133.html)

Edit:

Based on csharp's comment, changed wording from market to yearly device sales.
[2] (For K-12)

~~~
csharp
These are all sales numbers, not market share.

~~~
mikepavone
Sales numbers are market share. Installed base is probably the term you're
looking for.

~~~
tehwalrus
numbers of devices, not numbers of dollars, is the distinction being made here
I think.

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asimuvPR
Disclaimer: My day job is in edtech.

Minecraft has shown to be a good tool to teach students about different
topics. During this years ISTE convention, I talked with a lot of teachers who
used Minecraft as a teaching aide. To the point of using Minecraft graphics on
their worksheets. I saw a math worksheet where instead of counting apples the
student would count creeper heads. The teacher said the student engagement
raised after using the Minecraft graphics. Ultimately it is a great tool. MS
will find ways to make money off of that. But there is much worse software out
there's being sold everyday to naive school boards. Software that does not
help teachers engage students in the way Minecraft does. You will not believe
how awful most edtech software is.

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inputcoffee
Has anyone here programmed minecraft? Can you report to the rest of us how the
following compare as learning experiences:

1\. Minecraft

2\. Swift Playground

3\. Commodore 64 or other old basic

4\. Game Salad, or Game Maker,

5\. Just learning Javascript in the browser

I know #2 is my favorite experience, but I think #5 is the most useful now.
Just wondering if anyone has played around with minecraft to compare.

If I had to teach a kid: #2 > #5 > #3 > can't speak for the others

~~~
weavie
What I really enjoyed with Minecraft was using a plugin which enabled you to
connect a Clojure repl to the server [1]. It was great fun being able to write
some code to spawn cows and then blow them up all in real time.

With a bit of work, and some better documentation I think a real time
environment coupled with something that kids are really into could make for a
great educational experience.

[1][https://github.com/SevereOverfl0w/bukkure](https://github.com/SevereOverfl0w/bukkure)

~~~
cwyers
I have a hard time putting into words how little interest I have in Minecraft
personally, but I may have to buy a copy myself to see if I can get this
working and get my daughter interested in it.

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rocky1138
If you're a developer looking to fight this, I'd suggest taking a look at
Minetest, which started out as a fully libre open-source clone of Minecraft
but has really grown into its own project in its own right.

The core engine is C++ and mods are programmed using Lua.

[http://www.minetest.net/#about](http://www.minetest.net/#about)

~~~
thesimpsons1022
and why do you want to fight it?

~~~
shmerl
Using closed stuff for education is a bad idea to begin with. Especially when
there are open alternatives. I'm very surprised many in the education sphere
don't get it. Windows, Windows everywhere and so on.

~~~
fixermark
Can you explain why that is? Most people I know who have anything like a
computer background from school learned the standard MS Office suite; they
then went on to jobs where those skills were useful because their companies
also used the MS Office suite. What's the advantage of teaching fundamentals
using software the student is less likely to see again?

~~~
shmerl
It's a catch 22 lock-in perpetuated by MS. It should be broken and education
system is as good place as any to do it. MS hooked everyone on it, and
arguments like "what's the advantage of not being hooked on it, since everyone
is" aren't helping.

Luckily some actually get it and use Linux in schools. But in my experience
it's not common (in higher education chances are better).

~~~
fixermark
I think you're seeing familiarity with open source tools as an end. If the
goal of education is to teach people fundamentals of computer use that are
independent of software, the use of open source in that equation is orthogonal
to the goal. It's easier to just use what everyone else is using.

I think the "it" some "get" is not seen as a necessary "it" for the purposes
of education, and "Using closed stuff for education is a bad idea" is begging
the question.

Linux is 25 years old now. The GPL is older than that. The ecosystem around
them has had plenty of time to prove its worth as a superior solution for
educational tools; it mostly wallows around in a sea of mutually-incompatible
"maybe-we-could" and "what-if-we-tried" initiatives without the kind of clout
behind them that make institutions believe the solution's providers will be
around in five years and the institution won't be stuck owning 100% of the
tool they don't really want to support. It turns out most educators and
students would rather have a working solution guaranteed by someone with money
in the game than a tool they can fully modify, evidence seems to suggest. The
advantage to the MS ecosystem is that when it doesn't work, you can take it to
multiple independent companies who will fix it for you.

~~~
shmerl
_> "Using closed stuff for education is a bad idea" is begging the question._

It's quite clear that depending on some vendor who can dictate what to do for
the education system is a bad idea. And entities like MS clearly have that
power now to some degree (or strive to gain that power). So using open source
in education field is a natural way to avoid that. As I said, some actually
get it enough to act on it. I don't think anyone thinks that it's good to have
that dependency in general, most just don't go anywhere further than realizing
that it's not good.

~~~
jtrtoo
How does using open source actually avoid that?

Isn't all software opinion, regardless of origin?

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qwertyuiop924
Weaponize? That's just wrong. Minecraft, retroactively dubbed Minecraft Java
Edition, is totally cross platform. So, how does this new product help MS
dominate education?

Answer: it doesn't. It's like arguing that Bröderbund (I hope I spelled that
right) weaponized Zoombinis to take over the education market.

~~~
badlogic
Minecraft Education Edition is a fork of Minecraft Pocket Edition, written in
C++ without modding capabilities and only compatible with Windows 10.
Minecraft Java Edition is likely going to die eventually.

~~~
Gaelan
MC:Ed runs on Macs as well. More details of Minecraft's codebases:

Minecraft at this point has 3 separate codebases: the original one written in
Java, the "Pocket Edition" codebase, and the console codebase.

The Java edition was the "original" Minecraft codebase. It runs on most
versions of macOS, Windows and Linux. Because it is written in Java, it is
very easily moddable and has a large modding scene. Most features arrive here
first.

The console port was developed by 4J Studios in C++ and released in 2012 for
the Xbox 360. It now runs on most game consoles.

Mojang separately released an iOS/Android port in 2012, known as Minecraft
Pocket Edition. This port is also written in C++. The PE codebase was ported
to Windows 10 as well (W10 can run the Java version as well).

Back to MC:Ed. MC:Ed is a spiritual successor to a third-party product,
MinecraftEdu (Java Edition licensed from Mojang, modded to be suitable for
education). Microsoft bought the company behind MinecraftEdu and is replacing
it with MC:Ed, which is based on the PE codebase and runs on Windows 10 and
macOS (El Cap+).

~~~
qwertyuiop924
I don't know why they did that. "Hey guys, let's replace an already well-known
product with a more limited version with less features. That will sell us a
ton of copies!"

~~~
Gaelan
The C++ codebase was originally written because Java didn't run on iOS. In
fact, MC:PE has sold more copies than the desktop version. Not sure about
MC:W10, probably a desire to unite under one codebase.

~~~
qwertyuiop924
I know why the C++ codebase was written, but MC:W10 doesn't make sense, and
neither does MCED moving off MCJE.

------
orf
Games like this are the best way to teach programming. I first started by
programming Counter Strike Source mods using EventScripts that let you write
mods in Python. That changed my life.

Small 2D games are cool to look at and kind of fun, but nothing is better than
taking a game you already love and scripting it. Far better than making a
tortoise walk across the screen, it's more engrossing and rewarding and it
becomes sort of a game in itself. You want to make your UZI shoot bananas?
Figure out what that weird error is and you can.

Kudos to Microsoft.

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ramblenode
Where is the research and what are the arguments that support Minecraft's
educational utility? I haven't devoted a great deal of time to seeking them
out, but so far I haven't found very convincing literature. Don't get me
wrong, it seems like a great creative outlet, but why should a school prefer
this over alternatives like music, art, or writing? I've seen a number of
references to Minecraft's ability to simulate circuits and create logic gates,
but how is this better than another logic board simulator or cheap
electronics? For as many interesting lessons as Minecraft offers, the video
game aspect of it necessitates a lot of "grinding" and virtual physical labor
that doesn't seem particularly enriching. There is real intellectual meat
buried within, but to this outsider it looks like "mostly entertainment"
rather than "educational and entertaining".

~~~
DanBC
> the video game aspect of it necessitates a lot of "grinding"

No, there's a creative mode where there's no grinding needed. The player has
everything available right away.

> but how is this better than another logic board simulator or cheap
> electronics?

Children use it.

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jaxomlotus
What a dumb and misleading headline. "Weaponizes?"

~~~
learc83
Weaponize is the new leverage. A while back I noticed people started using
"leverage" instead of "use". Now we're moving on to "weaponize".

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bobbylox
As someone making an educational game to teach programming (
[http://codemancergame.com](http://codemancergame.com) ) I say the more the
merrier! A rising tide lifts all boats.

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byron_fast
Slowest weaponization ever. If they'd just let modders make money, they would
have already stolen legions of devs from iOS.

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Haul4ss
When Apple makes an iPad app to teach kids a programming language useful only
in the Apple ecosystem, they're promoting STEM education.

When Microsoft leverages a massively popular game to promote STEM education,
they're weaponizing.

~~~
vvanders
Exactly.

Microsoft has always offered educational versions of Visual Studio at
discounted/zero cost. I clearly remember getting a student copy of Visual
Basic(VS6.0!) for ~$50.

I built all sorts of stupid things with that and while it definitely biased me
in favor of Microsoft tools you know what else it did? Helped me into a rich
and diverse career in a wide array of technologies and stacks. Anything that
helps bridge that gap is a good thing in my mind.

Problem solving, debugging and abstractions are skills that transcend stacks
and can be learned in a wide variety of environments. Engagement is they key
to this and I think Minecraft is a great avenue.

~~~
FT_intern
$50 is expensive for personal software. Many IDEs are free for non commercial
use

~~~
vvanders
Sure, but we're also talking about back in '98 where the software landscape
was pretty different. It was about the same as a AAA PC game title which was a
fair price to my younger self.

Heck back then I got a physical 8" x 6" _box_ , none of this puny CD/DVD
sleeve stuff. We had to drive to a store in downtown San Diego that explicitly
sold compilers/productivity software/etc. Hard to believe that happening this
day and age.

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ccvannorman
It's interesting to see the term "weaponized" used with education -- I feel
like we've (somewhat) done that for math with supermathworld.com. It's great
to see education moving in this direction!

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pekk
Apple has been pulling tricks for many years to lock down education, but I
doubt this was ever described as "weaponizing." Sheesh.

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cwyers
I don't think I'd have the job or career I have today if not for a fascination
with tinkering with Doom mods back in high school. My daughter is obsessed
with Minecraft and if Microsoft can "weaponize" that into something other than
her watching incredibly annoying YouTube videos I'd be freaking thrilled.

