

Ask HN: Has political correctness in tech gone too far? - anon3_

It feels as if there is a mob of silent assassins lurking on twitter and media outlets looking to out anyone who says anything that isn&#x27;t glowingly politically correct.
They are sort of like &quot;political trackers&quot;, except they are targeting mostly white, male programmers - but in reality - anyone who disagrees with their narrative (whatever it is) is a heretic.<p>I find it offensive that there are claims of sexism in OSS and tech. Codes of conduct. I feel like I can&#x27;t give an opinion, or even make a mistake speaking without being stared down or ruining my career.<p>I don&#x27;t want to be politically correct. But it looks like they only way to survive is to be that.<p>Am I the only one who feels like outsiders are assaulting tech for their own selfish agenda, and we were already diverse by design decades ago?<p>Someone decided to flagkill what could otherwise be a constructive discussion: https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=9738526<p>Interestingly, that is an example of the kind of censorship that <i>is taking it too far</i>. I would like a discussion to happen and this not to be censored. Use an anonymous account so you can speak your mind without being persecuted.
======
beat
I have a suggestion.

If you know any _women_ in tech that you think you could ask about this, ask
them. If you know any African-Americans or Latinos in tech, ask them. You may
learn things that you don't know about right now. And if you don't know any
non-white males that you would feel comfortable asking in order to expand your
horizons... well, that's evidence of a problem, right?

You find it offensive that there are claims of sexism. I find it offensive
that there is _actual_ sexism. I don't know a female tech professional who
_hasn 't_ been subjected to discomfort, doubt, or harassment. Especially if
they're pretty - every pretty woman I know in tech has faced assumptions that
she isn't technical, because she's a woman.

No one is going to ruin your career because you made a careless sexist remark
(especially if you acknowledge that it was actually sexist afterward). Hell,
they _can 't_ ruin your career, not in an industry with negative unemployment,
not unless you crossed the line into physical assault. Which, by the way,
_many_ males techies have gotten away with doing to their female colleagues.

People who disagree with the "narrative" of equality aren't heretics. They're
assholes.

~~~
ptomato
> No one is going to ruin your career because you made a careless sexist
> remark

unless it was a dongle joke at a tech conference.

~~~
beat
Educate yourself on what happened. Did you know that the woman who reported
the dongle joke was fired from her job because she reported it? And that she
received actual threats for it?

[http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/21/a-dongle-joke-that-
spiraled...](http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/21/a-dongle-joke-that-spiraled-way-
out-of-control/)

I don't know who the anonymous joker was (who got fired, and then publicly
apologized for his inappropriate joke), but I'm fairly certain he would have
found another job pretty easily. "Career ruined" is still not correct language
for this situation.

------
anigbrowl
There are lots of places you can speak your mind anonymously and say whatever
you like about whoever you like. Of course, the downside of posting
anonymously is if you express some socially unpopular opinion people will just
dismiss it as bigotry, when presumably you'd like to have that opinion taken
more seriously. But if you attach your name to it, and that name is invested
with social credibility for whatever reason, then one of two things can
happen. It might be more persuasive other others because of who you are; or if
enough people consider your opinion socially toxic, your overall credibility
may take a hit.

Well, too damn bad. We live in an increasingly densely populated world and
communicate through increasingly persistent channels, such that it's almost as
easy to permanently record your whimsical opinion on any subject on the
internet as it is to mumble it under your breath in a moment of transitory
annoyance. That density and persistence combine to amplify the power of ideas
significantly, whether those ideas are entrepreneurial, artistic, political or
whatever. If too many people find your opinions hurtful or offensive, then in
the aggregate they'll isolate you socially on the basis that your positive
contributions, however good they may be, are not sufficiently interesting to
offset the negative feelings your opinions engender. You're not so special
that your positive contributions can't possibly be replicated by anyone else,
and so people will prefer to wait for someone who is equally productive but
more pleasant to be around.

In short, you can say whatever you like without regard for its effect on
others, or you can maintain and improve your social standing, but society is
not obliged to help you do both at the same time.

Of course, there's an interest grou for everything on the internet, so no
matter how extreme or controversial your opinions are, you can likely find a
community of people where those opinions will be validated, celebrated,
perhaps even commercially viable, even as they are rejected or vilified by
society at large. You will have to decide what sort of social connectivity you
desire and deal with the limitations of that choice on your output, your
popularity, and so on.

------
inscrutablemike
This was the intent behind Political Correctness - a term cribbed from the
Soviet Union's ideology and popularized in the United States at the University
of Wisconsin, Madison. It's an intentional tool of social control by corrupt
people who want to enforce a worldview on others.

Ther is no such thing as it "going too far". It shouldn't exist at all.

------
coolnow
I feel the same way you do, especially the part about white males being
attacked most of the time. And i'm not even white.

------
paulhauggis
"I don't want to be politically correct. But it looks like they only way to
survive is to be that."

It is the only way to survive. If you say the wrong thing, even if you aren't
attacking anyone, you could have your career or life ruined.

Just look at the ex-Mozilla CEO for a good example of this. He donated a small
amount of money in a cause he believe in, but because it didn't go along with
the community narrative, he was bullied online until he was forced to resign.

If it had been the reverse and he donated to a pro gay marriage fund and the
company was extremely religious, the same community would be on the side of
the CEO. This is what tells you it's all about politics and has nothing to do
with what people tell you (freedom, etc).

I just don't understand why we can't just live and let live.

In the end, it means that people like me that ordinarily just want to live and
let live now have to resort to under-handed tactics (like getting people fired
and ruining the lives of people) to make the world right.

~~~
thumbtackthief
Yeah, must suck to have your life ruined and be denied opportunities based on
your actions rather than your gender, race, or orientation like all us non-
white non-straight non-males have to deal with. "Why can't I just be allowed
to be terrible to other people without fear of criticism?!?"

