
Teenage Pregnancy in England: Do Parents’ Educational Expectations Matter (2014) - gokhan
http://paa2015.princeton.edu/abstracts/152988
======
gnicholas
> _according to one expert, strict mothers usually have more successful
> children_

No word as to whether they are happier or less happy. Not that happiness is
everything, but it's definitely part of the equation. Especially ironic not to
have this mentioned given the source: HappyLifeReport.com

~~~
emodendroket
Actually a pretty fair point. The doctor whose disciplinarian parents forced
him into it and is miserable is practically a stereotype.

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Splines
I'm not a believer of the "Tiger mother" stereotype, but I do believe that
parents need to be strict, in that they set proper limits, follows their own
examples, communicate consequences, and always, _always_ , follow through on
all commitments (whether it be a punishment or a promise to the child). This
(imo) sets a high trustworthiness bar in the parent/child relationship, and
gives room for that relationship to grow.

"Disciplined" may be a better word - it requires a high amount of willpower to
pull this off, but it's part of what you signed up for.

~~~
analog31
What if you are simply not a disciplined person with lots of willpower? (Then
your kids are likely to also be undisciplined). This is not a hypothetical
question. You can't send the kids back, and you might not know what kind of
parent you're going to be until you have one or even more than one kid.

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liberte82
You end up with shitty kids? This is the world and life. Not sure what your
question is.

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emodendroket
Frankly I think the influence of this stuff can be overstated. Plenty of
examples of people with middling parents who turned out fine or people with
great, involved parents who really went off the rails.

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sofanisba
[http://paa2015.princeton.edu/abstracts/152988](http://paa2015.princeton.edu/abstracts/152988)
possible link to the original study (rather than just the clickbait version
:P). Looks like it's pretty targeted to teenage girl behaviour and pregnancy
rates.

~~~
dang
OK, we've changed the URL to that from [http://hangover-cure.co.uk/strict-
mothers-have-better-childr...](http://hangover-cure.co.uk/strict-mothers-have-
better-children-new-research-says/).

~~~
emodendroket
The only problem is now half the comments won't make any sense.

~~~
dang
You'd be surprised at how much readers can figure out when there's a trail
left in the thread.

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analog31
If the study reflects a reproducible effect, it could be genetic, i.e., the
strictness of the parents and their kids are simply reflections of similar
inherited traits.

I was amused when the "tiger mom" articles came out, and wondered about trying
to be such a parent myself. I quickly realized that I don't have the self
discipline and emotional stamina to pull it off, whether I think it's a good
idea or not. For this reason, telling me that it's how I should raise my kids
is a moot point.

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eatyourpeas
not to mention how happy these 'better children' are, the prevalence of
anxiety and depression across all samples - strict environments without
nurture do not end well

~~~
lsd5you
Strictness and nurture are hardly in diametric opposition, but they may be
difficult for some people to balance. Some parents have more self discipline,
set a better example and better compartmentalise and in doing so are able to
have it all. In other cases (Economic and social factors all contributing, but
a lot of it will be the individuals character and own upbringing) discipline
will get mixed up with capricious behaviour based on the parents mood and in
contradiction to the parents own behaviour. It is this more chaotic version of
'strictness' (the beginning of the abuse spectrum perhaps) which is likely to
contribute to mental health issues later in life.

I think currently there is an additional difficulty that has arisen with the
infantalisation of a generation of adults who are uncomfortable with a proper
adult-child sepearation and would rather befriend their children for their own
emotional needs. The problem with this is (unless you are unfathomably
charismatic) you cannot be all people to someone. A friendship relationship is
one of equals and probably not what the child needs as it undermines authority
which is the basis of discipline.

Just some personal thoughts on the matter (from the UK).

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fred_is_fred
It's not a magic formula. Look what happened to Todd Marinovich [1] whose
Tiger Dad basically screwed him up for life.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Marinovich](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Marinovich)

~~~
sverige
_" he was arrested in 2004 for skateboarding in a prohibited area"_

He was 35 years old and still getting into teenager trouble.

Emotional development is so critical, and often "success" does not really
include anything other than vague hand-waving toward "happiness," which far
too many people equate with financial and/or professional success. What about
qualities like perseverance, steadiness, calmness, empathy, warmth,
flexibility, or kindness (just to name a few)? These are things that can be
taught and encouraged.

~~~
fred_is_fred
I'd add a few more to the list of things that I think Tiger parents miss:
independence, creativity, and relaxation/meditative/reflective

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daodedickinson
Eh, I never developed any motivation to do anything beyond fear of my mother
and now I have no motivation and still haven't found any in a decade since
escaping.

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devy
So this study totally vindicate the "Tiger mother"[1] types?

[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_mother](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_mother)

[2]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Hymn_of_the_Tiger_Mothe...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Hymn_of_the_Tiger_Mother)

~~~
emodendroket
It purports to but I wouldn't be entirely surprised if there were a third
factor influencing both things, and the article says nothing about controlling
for any external factors. Also numbers like 4% aren't exactly overwhelming.
And the sourcing leaves something to be desired. Happylifereport?

~~~
KGIII
I'd also wonder if there's not a realistic limit to this. At some point, I'm
guessing it is possible to be too strict?

Related: I was the custodial parent and not very strict. My kids are mostly
productive and happy adults. I can't ask for more.

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blackbear_
I see an obvious flaw with this. If success is restricted to success at
school, children of strict mothers are indeed more "successful" because they
spend way more time on homework than the average student.

I wonder whether this "success" translates to those children being more
disciplined as grown-ups.

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blacksmith_tb
I read that as "Bitter Children," which seems equally likely.

