

A plea re: false starts, discouragement, etc. - cookiecaper

This post is basically excuse-making and whining. I understand that, but I hope that some of you can help give me some encouragement. I also believe that there are probably some others here with a similar conflict, so hopefully your contributions will help them too.<p>I want to start a successful startup, but I am very discouraged. I have tried things before, and it seems that no matter their utility or content, they always fly under the radar and experience minimal usage. Each individual thing I try has made less than $100, though they all had much more potential, in my opinion. I can just never get noticed.<p>I've written working or mostly-working versions of several of these projects, they aren't just pie-in-the-sky I-need-a-developer ideas.<p>There is a network of people that I thought would be willing to help me if I made something relevant, but it turns out I was mistaken -- most of these people have summarily ignored all the messages I've sent. They are not willing to help me, and none of them seem to remember the difficulty involved in bootstrapping.<p>I don't bother pitching things to those who could help anymore because I don't believe that realistically anyone will help. Even if there are well-intentioned investors and helpers out there, I just assume that there's no point in preparing a custom big long proposal for them because they are flooded with so many other candidates that I will be ignored. Sometimes I send short feelers to people involved in things like this to see if I can actually get through, but these messages are (so far) always ignored.<p>Since this is Hacker News, I'll mention YC specifically. I don't apply to YC because I can't fit into its model. I have a family to look after here (a wife and a new son). YC seems to be about shipping out unmarried young men to live in apartments with their co-founders on a shoestring. I can't do that.<p>I have a lot of plans, and a lot of things I want to do, but I can't ever seem to get the withal to do them. When I suck it up and launch something, the project dwindles because I don't have any money to get the kind of exposure or infrastructure or whatever component is missing. I'm not a great marketer or salesman, but I can't get great marketers or salesmen as one of the masses posting vague promises about equity, especially not in "bad" job markets.<p>I've listened to a couple episodes of the recent set of podcasts on traction. To me, the gist of each one has been "get lucky" (i.e. noticed by Google or Mozilla) or "get money" (i.e. get a big or famous investor).<p>Meanwhile, it's frustrating to read of successes others achieve. Not because I'm not happy for them, just because it seems like many, many others, even those with what I feel are far worse ideas or skills, are able to grasp whatever I'm missing here, and get money and be not poor.<p>So what should I do? I know there are a lot of investors and founders here. I feel like there are probably others like me. Can anyone offer advice besides general platitudes? I know that the line is "just keep trying", but I've kept trying for a long time and it doesn't seem to work out.
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patio11
I've just spent a few minutes looking through your previous comments. My first
suggestion is to have a friendly chat with the sort of professional who has
friendly chats with people for a living. Some people I know have found that to
be a lifechanging experience -- for the better.

You seem to not be satisfied with working for a living. I can sympathize. That
does not mean you need to totally reject working for a living: you can use it
as a stepping stone to bigger and better things. A paycheck can support your
wife and son while you do things on the nights and weekends.

Businesses do not magically spring up because of luck or money. They're built
patiently by finding a customer, making something for the customer, and
gradually improving it. If you've had a day job recently, you might have
noticed something that is dissatisfying about that industry. Fix it. Sell it
to one person. Repeat a lot, improving a bit at a time.

You don't have to vanish into the Batcave for 2 years and then emerge with a
heartbreaking work of staggering genius only to find that no one actually
wants to buy it. Make something small. Pitch it to folks who should want to
buy it because it would solve problems for them. If they don't want to buy it,
ask why they don't want to buy it. Iterate gradually.

~~~
cookiecaper
> _My first suggestion is to have a friendly chat with the sort of
> professional who has friendly chats with people for a living. Some people I
> know have found that to be a lifechanging experience -- for the better._

Oh, can you explain to me what you mean here? Who should I talk to? I don't
know what kind of person you're referring to.

~~~
patio11
I was obliquely suggesting that you seek the advice of a mental health
professional.

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kls
\--I'm not a great marketer or salesman, but I can't get great marketers or
salesmen as one of the masses posting vague promises about equity, especially
not in "bad" job markets.

You said it right here, If you don't get them to the front door you will never
invite them in for tea. If you are not good at you either need to find someone
or you are going to have to get some books and get good at it.

I used to get so mad at the fact that the sales and marketing guys where
treated like kings while the developers (the guys building the sell-able
product) where treated like their contribution was marginal.

It took the hammer of experience on the anvil of time to beat in to me why
this was. Getting the customer is more important than the product you sell
them. See for a long time I was of the superior engineering mindset, but as
the markets have show time and time again the superior product does not win
unless it is complemented with a superior sales and marketing force.

(Brutal Honesty) Your problem is you do not value sales and marketing and feel
that it is not worthy of you time until you do you will remain in your
situation as you will have only half efforts and false starts.

If I where you I would write a simple eBook or make some simple product, I am
talking about a weeks worth of your time to build no more. And then I would
market the hell out of it. The point is not to make allot of money but to
teach you the value of marketing and to appreciate it.

You need to blog about your product, used adWords, affiliates do it all
everything you can think of you need to honestly sell your item for 1 month.

~~~
cookiecaper
I value sales and marketing. The problem is that I try to sell and market
things and it doesn't work, and I get discouraged and quit.

What is there to blog about about my product? Doing that just seems so bottom-
of-the-barrel marketer to me.

I have put effort into marketing things before. Most of my projects have not
been up-front money-makers (i.e., they weren't projects with a traditional
give me $30 and I give you this program model), so affiliate marketing wasn't
possible in that way, but one of my new products is, so I will see how
affiliate marketing works out there.

But besides that, I don't really know what to do. I don't have much money for
ads on Google, and they don't seem effective anyway.

I would love to get marginal success on an eBook or something. I think it
would help restore my faith a little bit, and help me believe that it is
possible for me to make a dent again. I've just been beaten down and had my
expectations fall short for so long that I feel like there's no hope in any of
that.

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cscotta
Thanks for taking the time to write. It might be helpful to post a few links
or examples to your previous work and help us understand why they didn't
succeed as you'd hoped.

Building a successful company is hard work (spoken as someone working on it,
but not yet there), and in my limited experience, nothing has ever just
"caught on." I'd suggest that the disparity between the frustration you've
experienced attempting to build these companies and the frequency of articles
proclaiming just the opposite is indicative of the problem: we _want_ to
believe that it's a cakewalk, that it's merely a combination of skill and
luck.

What have you worked on, and where are you headed? Perhaps others who have
been down similar paths may be able to offer some insight.

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bhousel
Where do you live?

Maybe someone here knows of a startup accelerator program in your area. YC is
just one such program, and there are many others that don't require you to
quit your day job and move to the bay area.

~~~
cookiecaper
I live in Utah right now, but I'm not too hopeful about the locals.

I actually worked at a company run by one of the area's biggest angel
investors. My experience with him and his partner has contributed greatly to
my discouragement; they didn't care at all about anyone who wasn't a VP and
literally held a meeting telling everyone never to talk to them, only talk to
your relevant VP. This company had about 40 employees. My experience with that
guy is not good at all, and I don't think he likes me very much anymore, and
that will probably affect my chances with local investors negatively since he
is quite well-connected.

