

Ask HN: How long can you actually work standing up? - Vivtek

Here's a question for people who are working at a standing-level desk - how long can you actually type while standing? Do your knees and feet get tired? I'm intrigued, but... I have to type a lot if I want to get paid.
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ukdm
Last year a hurt my lower back and was forced to stand up as much as possible
to help the healing process for 6 months (sitting down puts 6x more pressure
on your lower back than standing according to my chiropractor).

I created a workstation that allowed my screen to be at eye height and
keyboard/mouse to be at the right height for my elbows to be at right-angles.
That was by far the most comfortable position to stand and type/mouse from.
Later on I found having the mouse higher actually helped too with arm ache.

As for how long I could stand for, the first week was not a problem. I was
doing 8am-1pm followed by 30 minutes sitting down, and then 1:30pm-6pm without
a break other than a walk to the toilet occasionally.

From week two my legs really started to ache from the kneee down, I found
myself leaning on the desk to take away the pressure. Investigating why this
was happening I found it is to do with keeping your legs stationary as the
muscles can cramp or just go stiff. The solution is to keep moving so a cheap
manual treadmill should do the trick. The alternative of taking frequent
breaks doesn't work as it breaks concentration.

If you have to do this for a couple of weeks then you should be able to cope,
if you want to make a "change for life" then come up with some way to keep
moving while working.

For those who do sit down all day and don't have back problems a word of
caution. Sitting all day makes your lower back very stiff, but you won't
notice this until you try to do something and hurt yourself. It may be a
lifting task that an unstiff back could cope with. Taking time to exercise and
stretch can save you such a disaster, I am healing well now, but still get
twinges and have to be carefull.

~~~
jnorthrop
"For those who do sit down all day and don't have back problems a word of
caution. Sitting all day makes your lower back very stiff, but you won't
notice this until you try to do something and hurt yourself. It may be a
lifting task that an unstiff back could cope with. Taking time to exercise and
stretch can save you such a disaster, I am healing well now, but still get
twinges and have to be carefull."

That is the right caution, but the wrong reason. A stiff lower back (lumbar)
is desirable. You want to be mobile at your hips, and upper back (thoracic)
and have the ability to keep the lumbar stable. When you lift something your
lumbar spine should be immobile.

You are correct that there are problems with sitting but it is that typically
your lumbar is rounded so that you are weakening and stretching it all day
long making it difficult to maintain proper posture when you lift something
from the ground.

A quick rule of thumb for mobility: Ankles (mobile), Knees (immobile), Hips
(mobile), Lumbar (immobile) and Thoracic (mobile). Stuart McGill is a great
resource for learning about proper back mechanics.

Oh, BTW, I use a stand up desk and love it.

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artlogic
I recently (a week ago) converted my desk at my day job to a standing desk.
It's easily the most ergonomic position I've ever worked in. I have noticed
that just to keep my legs from getting stiff and my feet from getting sore I
move a lot more throughout the day. At first this was slowing down my typing a
bit, but I'm almost back up to speed. I also brought in a bar stool to lean on
(not sit on) when my legs get a bit tired. I'd say I'm standing now for about
80-85% of the work day. I have noticed a bit of residual pain in my heels, but
I just got a fatigue mat, and hopefully that will help. By and far the hardest
thing to get used to had been minor lower back pain - which, from my research,
is due to some core muscle weakness from - you guessed it - sitting too much.

One of the best things I've found about standing is that it keeps me more
alert and awake throughout the day. This is by far the most immediate plus,
for me.

The important thing to remember is to keep moving - change your position
often. I have considered the manual treadmill route, but I'm a little
concerned my co-workers wouldn't appreciate the noise. Walking in place seems
to work just fine - but does earn me some odd looks.

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rarrrrrr
8 - 10 hr days are no problem. I built up to that over a few weeks.

Other possibly relevant factors: Switched to dvorak about 10 years ago. I'm in
athletic shape and maintain a healthfull diet.

I usually have a dead tree format book going, and take occasional breaks
during the day to read, cook, exercise, take a walk, etc.

Footwear makes a big difference. Minimal slippers were best. Anything with
arch support makes my feet hurt after a few hours.

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kylecordes
I split my work about 40/60 between:

1) sitting down at my home office (nice wood furniture and decor the whole
works)

2) standing at my work office (ugly but very functional perma-temporary
standing desk)

... and don't have any problems at all. I type as long as needed, etc.
However, I never stand still for more than a few seconds. (This seems to be a
built-in feature of me, rather than anything I do intentionally.)

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wbond
I recently did a week long stint on a temporary standing desk before ordering
new longer legs for my current desk.

For the first few days my feet hurt after standing for an hour or so, however
I did find that I felt more energetic throughout the day. I did have an odd
feeling of being unsettled the first day, but after that I found it easier to
focus, especially with the extra energy.

By the fifth day the pain in my feet was significantly reduced. This week I've
returned to my (fairly) ergonomic sitting desk setup and I've noticed posture
issues and some discomfort in my lower back.

My experience was that alternating short periods on a tall stool with standing
provided the most comfort. The paper, "The benefits of sitting and standing to
work"
([http://www.ergomotion.com.au/images/PDF/HFESA%20paper%202008...](http://www.ergomotion.com.au/images/PDF/HFESA%20paper%202008%20%20illustrated.pdf)),
references a study in which 30 full-time bank tellers came to the same
conclusion. Using a chef's mat can also provide some comfort for your feet.

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johnyzee
I have a motorized sit/stand desk, as is the norm here in Denmark (and
Scandinavia in general probably). I have used these for five-six years.

I tend to stand around half the time at work, which comes to something like
three-four hours on the average day. If I have just done a long run or bike
ride I might sit for the entire day as my legs and back will already be
fatigued.

The thing that makes me sit is aching feet. I suppose standing for a long time
makes bodily fluids assemble in the lower legs, so after a while the feet
start to feel a bit swollen and the heels get sore from having all the weight
on them. This is alleviated by switching around from one leg to the other, but
after a couple of hours I need to sit for a while (this is the reason a desk
must be stand OR sit and not fixed to standing-only - you need the ability to
adjust according to the situation.)

~~~
TrevorBurnham
The norm? Really? Motorized desks are pretty rare here in the US.

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imp
I set up a temporary standing desk at home for my work at night and on the
weekends. I didn't really have a problem typing for five hours at a time or
more. However, after about three weeks, I was getting aches in my ankles and
calves. I took down the standing desk soon after that. I felt like it was
sucking up my energy. I think standing about 20% of the time would be ideal.

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oscardelben
I am now using an exercise ball <http://www.freestylemind.com/exercise-ball-
office-chair> . I don't have a standing-level desk but the ball reminds me to
stand up every once in a while. It's not exactly what you're looking for but
it could be a cheaper alternative

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docgnome
I just started using one of these. Today is day 4. (The weekend was in the
way, so it's consecutive day 2) So far the only real change is my back is
hurting in a different place than with the cheap chair I had. (upper back
instead of lower) I'm giving it till Friday because I've heard that back pain
is normal at first mostly due to muscles being used that you weren't using
before.

~~~
oscardelben
I also recommend doing some back exercises if you can.

