
Meat-free 'Impossible Burger 2.0' tastes even closer to the real deal - alangpierce
https://www.engadget.com/2019/01/07/impossible-burger-2/
======
nindalf
Congrats to that team for building a great product. I hope they see a lot of
success. Long term, I hope plant based meat alternatives become commoditized.
If there are a bunch of alternatives that taste just as good and importantly
_are cheaper than meat_ , most people will switch. That's a huge win for the
environment (and also animal rights), and I can't wait to see it happen.

~~~
toyg
Until the people currently destroying forests to grow cattle, start destroying
forests to grow ingredients for these burgers. Soil depletion is also a thing.
I still remember the argument for biofuel and where it ended up.

More options in the mix is always good, but trying to replace everything with
vegetable stuff is not going to work in the long run.

~~~
alangpierce
Plant-based foods are almost always significantly more efficient to produce
than meat since you no longer need to grow all of the food to feed an animal
for its entire life.

From another article ( [https://www.cnet.com/news/impossible-
burger-2-0-tastes-like-...](https://www.cnet.com/news/impossible-
burger-2-0-tastes-like-beef-really/) ):

> But Impossible Foods can produce a burger using a fourth of the water and
> less than 4 percent of the land -- and emit one-tenth of the greenhouse
> gases -- than a conventional burger, Brown said.

So yeah, we might still destroy forests to make veggie burgers, but it'll be
1/25th of the forest destruction (if you believe the numbers).

~~~
epanchin
The rolling hills of Wales and northern England are never going to be great
for crops, but they are perfect grassland for feeding cattle and lamb.

The grass hills are beautiful, it would be a great shame to see them converted
to crops. I would argue they won’t be, and therefore the cattle raised on them
is effecient.

~~~
Aromasin
Decreasing meat consumption would dramatically decrease the amount of land
amount used for crop agriculture, not increase it. 85% of the UK's landmass is
grazing land and crops grown specifically as animal feed[1].

In 2010, the British livestock industry needed an area the size of Yorkshire
just to produce the soy used in feed. But if global demand for meat grows as
expected, the report says, soy production would need to increase by nearly 80%
by 2050. [2]

From a completely theoretical standpoint, if humans were to stop consuming
meat we would actually need to close 1000's of crop farms, not open them on
rolling hills, even when accounting for our dietary increase in plants. I'd
therefore argue that it's a shame the land has to be used for agriculture at
all. Better would be to maintain them as national parks and the like.

[1][http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959378017...](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959378017301176)

[2] (PDF WARNING)
[https://www.wwf.org.uk/sites/default/files/2017-10/WWF_Appet...](https://www.wwf.org.uk/sites/default/files/2017-10/WWF_AppetiteForDestruction_Summary_Report_SignOff.pdf)

~~~
themodelplumber
More national parks! As a recreational hiker and walker that would be a dream.
I'd go vegetarian myself if it guaranteed even 50% more parkland.

------
nonbel
These burgers are not a suitable nutritional replacement for beef. Beef
contains cholesterol, zero carbs, and has a different vitamin/mineral profile.

This stuff has no cholesterol and (a small amount of) carbs while also
containing way more salt, thiamine (vitamin B1), and folate (vitamin B9):
[https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-
products/6205/2](https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/6205/2)

[http://livablefutureblog.com/wp-
content/uploads/2018/05/impo...](http://livablefutureblog.com/wp-
content/uploads/2018/05/impossburger-nutritfacts-copy.jpg)

FYI, both folate and thiamine over-consumption may be linked to cancer:

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29529163](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29529163)

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4178204/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4178204/)

So while it is fine for people to eat it for "pleasure", it may be dangerous
to trick the mind into thinking it is consuming a real burger.

~~~
robotbikes
That is interesting but I don't think that it would be healthy for people to
eat beef burgers as their primary source of nutrition either. What annoys me
about the fake meat is that in the dystopian future soymeat was supposed to be
everywhere and cheaper where real meat was a sought after expensive delicacy
but due to government subsidies and hding the costs of environmental
externalities real meat remains much cheaper than the fake meats in general.
Just saying.

~~~
nonbel
The economics/politics of it is a different issue. I am concerned about the
danger of tricking people's minds into thinking the body has consumed
something with nutritional value other than it really has. Humans have been
consuming beef for a long time.

~~~
saagarjha
> I am concerned about the danger of tricking people's minds into thinking the
> body has consumed something with nutritional value other than it really has.

I think you're overreacting here. Impossible Burgers are slightly different,
nutritionally speaking, from regular burgers, but it's not like one is 100%
carbohydrates and the other is pure protein. They're relatively similar.

------
danharaj
That's really cool. Although I wish there were more vegan food that didn't try
to replicate non-vegan textures and flavors. Imitation can only be playing
catch-up. The best vegan and vegetarian food does its own thing.

~~~
screye
Being born in India, I've had the privilege to eat vegetarian meals that can
rival even the best meat based meal.

While I welcome 'impossible' meat replacements, it is funny that the meat
reduction movement is looking at such impractical and immature products
instead of simpler solutions such as bringing veg friendly cuisines to the
fore.

I am opposed to advocating for cold-turkey veganism though. Milk products and
eggs are great meat substitutes, and the lack of both makes entire cuisines
inaccessible.

~~~
atonse
Being of Indian descent, I might be biased. But Indian cuisine is the only
cuisine I'm aware of where being vegetarian isn't a compromise in the
creativity, quality, and sheer flavors available to you.

For other cuisines, where centuries of culinary creativity mostly went towards
making meat, this is the only viable approach to weaning us off growing
animals for meaty foods.

~~~
maxxxxx
There are also quite a few German/Austrian dishes that are sweet but are a
full meal. Look up "Kaiserschmarrn" or " Zwetschgenknoedel". "Kässpätzle" are
not sweet but also a full meal.

~~~
groestl
But to be frank, while Austrian desserts-as-main-course could qualify as
vegetarian cuisine, most main courses aren't vegetarian, and at least include
a little bit of bacon here and there.

~~~
maxxxxx
The dishes I mentioned aren't considered desserts. They are main courses.

~~~
groestl
Well, I am Austrian, and I consider them both desserts and main courses.

~~~
maxxxxx
I guess you Austrians must be doing things wrong :-). In Bavaria I have never
seen Kaiserschmarrn as dessert.

------
Vinnl
I'm really curious about the "fake meat" products that exist in other
countries. In the Netherlands, there's been enormous growth both in the number
of vegetarians and in the number of "fake meat" products that have become
widely available, and the quality of the latter has improved dramatically.
Before, these products were mostly useful for the non-vegetarians wanting to
prepare a meal for vegetarians without having to relearn how to do it (with
actual vegetarians preferably preparing vegetarian-first meals, e.g. with nuts
and beans rather than fake meat). However, nowadays these products have become
so good that they're actually of added value to a meal in terms of taste.

Interestingly, they do not appear to place as much focus on matching actual
meat as much as the foreign products that are usually the subject of articles
like these. Instead, they merely have to taste good and have good texture - it
doesn't matter if it's still somewhat different from actual meat (sometimes
they even taste better).

At the forefront of this has been the Vegetarian Butcher (that's a brand
name). They've recently been acquired by Unilever and will likely expand
internationally more aggressively. I have the feeling that the Netherlands is
friendlier to vegetarians, on average, than other Western countries, and if
that will give them an advantage. Time will tell!

~~~
testvox
We have a few available in the US, my favorite is
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn#Production](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn#Production)
which is not vegan as it contains some amount of egg. But the majority of the
product is made from soil mold protein, which is what makes it unique among
the options I have available.

~~~
Vinnl
Ah, you have Quorn as well? Back when there was not that much choice in the
Netherlands, Quorn was one of the few brands that was available. It doesn't
taste as good as most others in my opinion, though, and also has the
disadvantage of not having added some nutrients that vegans and vegetarians
often miss out on.

------
ebetica0
One of the smaller Asian grocers in New York City has made the best fake meat
I've had by far, and I wouldn't be surprised if it sources for many of the
vegetarian Asian restaurants in the city.
[http://www.maywahnyc.com/](http://www.maywahnyc.com/) I wonder how many other
places exist in the world like it, and how much a little bit of marketing
would do for them.

~~~
jamesjyu
The tradition of "mock meats" in Buddhist culture is one of the oldest. I've
found some of their veggie meats to taste really close to real meats, and they
tackle things like fish and tuna, which hasn't been addressed much in the
west. [https://www.tastecooking.com/buddhist-mock-meats-
paradox/](https://www.tastecooking.com/buddhist-mock-meats-paradox/)

------
MagicPropmaker
I'm disappointed they switched away from seitan / gluten protein to soy
protein. I just like wheat protein better, it feels better to me. But there's
tremendous--and unfounded--pressure to eliminate gluten. Sad.

~~~
okaram
It's not unfounded ... for whatever reason, it seems very few people are
allergic to soy, whereas more than 1% of population (Americans ? not sure)
have 'allergies' to gluten.

My daughter has diagnosed celiac disease, so I'm glad for any pressure to
eliminate gluten :) I'm also amazed at how many things you wouldn't imagine
have gluten :(

~~~
MagicPropmaker
"Celiac disease" is not an allergy. It's an autoimmune response.

[https://www.chop.edu/conditions-diseases/celiac-
disease](https://www.chop.edu/conditions-diseases/celiac-disease)

------
ArthurBrussee
I unironically can't wait to read release notes about newer versions of my
food

~~~
nwah1
Not only this, but we should have continuous integration testing.

Each batch of every product should be run through a litany of health and
safety tests, and such a thing could be crowdsourced.

~~~
cwkoss
Would be cool if first X% of every batch got a discount, provided they submit
a simple QA report.

------
goda90
Whether accurate or not, lots of opinion swirls around the effects that eating
soy has on testosterone levels in men. Even if these plant based "meats" are
indistinguishable in flavor and texture, they might end up losing to lab grown
meat in the long run because of concerns like that.

~~~
firethief
That sounds like concern trolling, but I'll bite: a meta analysis of
controlled trials is unequivocal
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224)

~~~
wavegeek
Having looked at a few of these studies I found the following problems

1\. Industry sponsorship. Which has been shown to produce wildly biased
results.

2\. Small, short term studies which can only find a "significant" (i.e.
statistically significant) effect if the effect is large and immediate.

In some of the studies an effect showed up close to statistical significance
but the headline was "no effect found"

3\. I don't know about this one, but some analyses have found that a majority
of review papers were ghost written by industry PR hacks who them paid
professors to put their names on them.

I suggest read the papers closely and looking hard at sponsorship issues
before believing them.

Also note that these studies were on adult men. There is every reason to
suspect that the developing male fetus is orders of magnitude more vulnerable
to environmental hormone disruptors of all kinds.

~~~
village-idiot
Honestly, industry money is so prevalent in nutritional research that we might
need to throw away everything after Ancel Keys and try again

------
Blinks-
I wonder if they balanced the amino acid profile correctly, if this is not a
complete protein then it wold detract from the main reason I eat meat, for
simple exercise recovery. One of the problems I have with grain protein
sources is they are rarely formulated in a way that allows for slow absorption
and it forces me to look up what amino acids I need to supplement with.

------
propter_hoc
Sort of interesting seeing this at the Consumer Electronics Show. Most food
startups I've seen would never think of trying to exhibit at that kind of
venue, but clearly it's an effective way for them to reach their target
demographic with coverage like this. They're probably also exhibiting at food
industry conferences, to get the restaurant & supermarket distribution deals,
but CES gets them TechCrunch & HN readers.

------
gioele
BTW, the vegetarian products manufactured by Rügenwalder Mühle (available in
most of EU) taste incredibly like their meat-based counterparts.

This vegetarian salami fooled many friends of mine in various double blind
experiments: [https://www.ruegenwalder.de/en/products/vegetarian-salami-
cl...](https://www.ruegenwalder.de/en/products/vegetarian-salami-classic)

------
georgespencer
I've tried Impossible burger a couple of times in the last few months. Both
were in New York - one in Soho House and one in Lucky's in Chelsea. The former
cost about $25, and the latter about $13 (a burger in Lucky's runs about $8 so
this is hugely expensive).

The Soho House on was just about the most disappointing thing I'v ever eaten.
It tasted like a bad veggie burger. The Lucky's one was fantastic, but whilst
meatier, again didn't taste like meat. I think if you served me the patty by
itself I'd be able to identify it as not being meat.

My extremely limited sample has led me to conclude that the cooking skill is
critical, and that you can go a long way towards persuading someone of a
patty's 'meatiness' by dressing it in burger sauce, cheese, etc.

I'm not quite sure that the mission here is something indistinguishable from a
real burger, but if it is then it's not there yet. But a great mission and
I'll continue to fork out absurd money for them whenever the urge for a beef
burger strikes me.

------
antidaily
Had one of these recently. I was shocked. The texture isn't 100% but very,
very close and the taste was amazing. It was much flatter than photo; looked
and tasted like Shake Shack.

~~~
agitator
IMO the texture of the 2.0 Impossible burger is spot on. And the flavors are
improved too. I would say its a huge improvement. Plus this one is grill-able.
It honestly hits all of the targets for what I want in a burger. Super
impressed.

------
dmitrygr
They said 1.0 was "indistinguishable from meat" and yet when i was erroneously
served it, i distinguished it quite easily. It had the texture of wet bread
and the taste of stale wet bread soaked in rotting pig blood. Bring on the
blind taste tests before claiming it tastes like meat.

------
shadyrudy
Glad this version is made without gluten, unlike the current Impossible
Burger. In the mean time, Beyond Meat has been my goto burger for a few
months.

~~~
notacoward
I think Impossible (even v1.0) is more meat-like, but I actually like Beyond
better. I _like_ the ever so slightly stiffer chew and legume undertone. When
I go to my favorite Seattle burger place (Lunchbox Lab) I go for the Beyond
version and it's awesome.

It's great that there are meatless options almost indistinguishable from real
meat. It's also great that there are tasty options which resemble meat only
slightly. And everything in between. The more the merrier.

------
adam
I'm curious if anyone else has stomach issues after eating the Impossible
Burger, the Beyond Meat burger, etc.? Something about the protein isolate or
who knows what else doesn't sit well with me. I've talked to others
anecdotally about the same thing, but is this a widespread occurrence?

It reminds me a bit of when Frito-Lay tried to introduce Olean into their
potato chips and it gave everyone the 3's...

~~~
scrooched_moose
My girlfriend and I tend to get them about once a month at a local restaurant
and have no problem with them.

Could it be something else in the meal? For instance, our restaurant serves it
with vegan Bun, Cheese, and 1000 Island dressing; all sourced from other local
businesses. Maybe it's one of those toppings?

------
fashionrob
The other thing I am not seeing in the comments is that most store bought meat
from big chains like Vons, Krogers, Walmart, etc- doesn't really taste that
good. When cooked, likely chewy, dry and tasting "off". When we think of the
"good burger" bite, we arnet thinking of discount ground meat from the market,
we are thinking of a good burger from some restaurant.

~~~
greedo
Here's one. I buy grocery store ground chuck, and I've never had a restaurant
burger that surpasses my own. Now fries are another thing, since I don't have
a deep fryer.

------
gnicholas
Does anyone know what the retail pricing is likely to be? A restaurant owner I
talked to says he pays $11/lb for the stuff. If they ramp up production then
they may be able to lower the price a bit. Or they could just spend VC $ to
subsidize the price and gain market share. Either way, I'm excited to try it
out when it's available!

~~~
rflrob
I have no particular insight, but I would guess the price will be a dollar or
two per pound more than you would pay at Whole Foods for an organic ground
beef with roughly comparable fat percentage. Any more than that and I would
think they would have trouble moving enough product to make it worth it.

In restaurants, the price of the food is a relatively small proportion of the
total cost, so having slightly expensive ingredients doesn't make a
proportional difference in price. At the grocery store, however, you see
exactly what you're paying for the meat itself, and I would think if it's
vastly more than a comparable product, they'd have trouble moving much
quantity.

------
searine
I'd love to use this as a meat-replacement but can ordinary consumers buy it
yet?

I just want to make chili. Please let me give you money!

~~~
philg_jr
Their website states that they are going to start shipping to grocery store
chains in March of this year.

------
callumprentice
In the early 70s, my dad worked at a place that (as a side business I think)
made a meat substitute called KESP. He used to bring samples home and mum
would make pies from it. Tasted awful if I remember correctly but I'm
surprised it's taken this long to get to a viable meat alternative.

------
sremani
As a person who was born in a family with tradition of vegetarianism, I find
this "veggie meat" obsession fascinating and fear a future where I cannot even
eat the one veggie burger on the menu.. because it tastes like a hamburger.

~~~
dfxm12
Why wouldn't you be able to eat the Impossible Burger? Does your family have a
tradition of vegetarianism because you don't like the taste of beef?

~~~
bigato
Some people who are vegetarians have or develop a strong aversion to meat
smell, let alone flavor.

------
syedkarim
I've had the Impossible Burger at a restaurant as well as the Beyond Burger at
Epic Burger. I'm not sure which tastes more like meat, but the Beyond Burger
is far tastier. I sometimes daydream about that sandwich.

~~~
AnIdiotOnTheNet
I agree. I'd heard the hype about Impossible so I was excited to try it when I
finally saw it available at a restaurant near me, but found that it tasted
pretty similar to a Morningstar Farms Griller's Prime patty. Since it cost me
as much to sub an Impossible patty as to buy a whole bag of Griller's Prime, I
wasn't impressed.

The Beyond Burger though, man that's good. I haven't had real beef in years,
but people tell me it looks and smells pretty similar when cooking and I think
the taste and texture are really close too. I love 'em.

I really wish the Beyond Sausage shortage would end.

------
jusonchan
I wish they would release this into the supermarkets sooner than the end of
the year though. I would love to include this in my weekly dinner options at
home. I am not a vegetarian but I do like to mix things up and this will help
to make one more dinner at home a veggie version.

The price is the key part right now. Hopefully they can scale this fast and
reduce the prices. My guess is that they are doing a controlled release to
ensure a better chance of success for the product. Early feedbacks should help
to correct issues.

~~~
TarpitCarnivore
You can find the Beyond Burger pretty easily now, especially in Whole Foods,
but the taste can be off putting to people.

------
SupaFlyak
Do vegan/vegetarians really want something that reminds them of meat products?
Why not just make a good meat-free sandwich that doesn't imitate another
product?

~~~
giarc
I'm not a vegan/vegetarian but I want this product. I'm concerned about the
environmental cost of raising beef cattle and I'd like a better option. My
family has already cut down our red meat consumption. We use ground turkey and
chicken quite a bit. I still want the ability to grill a good steak once a
month, but I'd love to use some of this ground meat in pasta sauces, taco's
etc.

~~~
village-idiot
By the by, most of the original takes on cattle emissions were fatally flawed
and retracted by their authors. It appears that US meat consumption represents
about 3.9% of US emissions. That number is still falling as we get more
efficient with our animal husbandry.

------
sizzle
Does anyone know the latest findings from studies that linked soy consumption
to estrogen increase in men?

The impossible burger being non soy based was a huge selling point for me...

~~~
cwkoss
Examine has a good writeup, jump to "Men’s health and testosterone"

tl;dr: "Reasonable intakes of soy foods and soy isoflavones do not affect
men’s testosterone levels, estrogen levels, or fertility, although case
reports have documented adverse effects from incredibly high daily intakes of
soy for 6–12 months. Men who are at risk of developing prostate cancer might
reduce their risk by eating soy foods, but soy foods do not appear to benefit
men who already have prostate cancer."

The case studies regarding feminization seem to have been cases of people
ingesting 300+g of soy protein a day for 6+ months. That amount of protein
would require nearly 100% of your calorie RDA if eaten in soybeans, so it
seems likely these two people had quite odd diets that could confound drawing
conclusions these cases. If they were taking a soy protein extract, I would
want to study if questionable supplement purity/contamination issues had any
effect - solvents and heat could transform some of the isoflavones or solvents
could remain in final product.

[https://examine.com/nutrition/is-soy-good-or-
bad/](https://examine.com/nutrition/is-soy-good-or-bad/)

------
jameslk
Nobody ever seems to question what's in these burgers. Just focusing on taste
is not good enough. Any independent research/investigation (besides Impossible
Food's own marketing materials) on the healthiness of the ingredients? Even if
the ingredients aren't inherently unhealthy on their own, if I'm just eating a
bunch of filler without much nutrition compared to real meat, that's still a
problem.

~~~
tschwimmer
A list of ingredients from the company's website:

Water, Textured Wheat Protein, Coconut Oil, Potato Protein, Natural Flavors,
2% or less of: Leghemoglobin (Soy), Yeast Extract, Salt, Konjac Gum, Xanthan
Gum, Soy Protein Isolate, Vitamin E, Vitamin C, Thiamin (Vitamin B1), Zinc,
Niacin, Vitamin B6, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Vitamin B12.

source: [https://impossiblefoods.com/faq](https://impossiblefoods.com/faq)

Seems like a regular old veggie burger, with some more slightly exotic
additives. I had not heard of Leghemoglobin, which appears to be some sort of
hemoglobin-like protein found in legume plant roots.

------
surfmike
The best fake meat patties I've ever had were the veggie patties ("Soul
burger") at Hero burger in Canada. My wife (who is vegetarian) thought it was
real at first and was upset they had made a mistake and had me try, and I also
thought it was real. But it was actually vegetarian!

~~~
l9k
So how did you make sure they weren't meat?

That's a problem I would see for vegetarian. That mostly involves trust. A
similar scenario already happens with halal and kosher food though.

~~~
surfmike
Well, I've had them many times since and just as good... So either this burger
chain is fraudulently selling meat patties as tofu veggie, or they're legit.

------
tracker1
Is it also legume free? I'm allergic. Also, is the protein/amino profile
complete and balanced? Also, I tend to believe (based on dieting research and
other experiments) that protein sources should generally be consumed with 1:2
1g fat per 2g protein roughly speaking.

------
malkia
And probably still not a great choice for diabetics... Unless it's made only
of fat & protein....

~~~
sithadmin
Per the article:

>It has as much bioavailable iron and protein as the same size serving of
ground beef, with 14 grams of fat and 240 calories per quarter-pound patty.

Also, per Impossible's site, changes to nutrition for the new recipe are:

>The new Impossible Burger features 30% less sodium and 40% less saturated fat
than the current recipe and just as much protein as 80/20 ground beef from
cows

The original recipe only has 5g of carbohydrates per serving, so assuming that
remains constant, this doesn't seem terribly problematic for those on a low-
to-moderate carbohydrate diet.

~~~
DDebbieDDowner
>It has as much bioavailable iron and protein as the same size serving of
ground beef

Which ofc it's nothing but marketing nonsense considering that the most
bioavailable form of iron Heme-iron is found only in meats.

~~~
moate
"Most" doesn't mean "only". Non-heme iron is real, I promise.

Hell they could really cheat and just throw ferrous sulfate directly in the
mix rather than using naturally occurring iron in the veggies.

~~~
DDebbieDDowner
"Most" doesn't mean "only". Non-heme iron is real, I promise.

No, it means that the Non-heme is less bioavailable i.e less efficiently
absorbed from the body.

~~~
moate
If I give you 100G of iron at 10% bioavailabilty , and Tom 10G at 100%
absorption, who absorbed more iron?

If you insist on reading the statement as "this burger has non-heme iron at
quantities comparable to heme iron in meat that will also be just as bio-
available" then yes, it's impossible.

However, I was trying to point out that there are several ways of reading that
statement without it being marketing doublespeak.

TL;dr- I think we're arguing different points here.

------
sebringj
i tried at rubis diner the 1.0 version and i was surprised how good it was but
was way too salty and krispy like some alternative meat but still meat. they
are on the right track so am expecting greatness for 2.0.

------
tmaly
I love the idea, but the saturated fat seems a bit high for a plant based
food?

~~~
dczot
Yeah, plant-based and healthy are not necessarily the same. This at least free
of cholesterol vs meat, but I think the main draw is the plant-based aspect
rather than healthy.

------
foxyv
I love a veggie burger but they are always so expensive at the supermarket.
Maybe things have changed since I started eating meat again but being a
vegetarian was really expensive.

------
jafingi
I tried the Impossible Burger 1.0 at Stanford, and it tasted really good! Not
a 100% like meat, but good as an alternative. Looking forward to trying the
new one.

------
gnicholas
If this does indeed taste like real meat, then they may move in the direction
of making healthier products. That is, they've said from the beginning that
their goal with the Impossible Burger is to mimic the taste and health profile
of ground beef. But there's a lot of fat in there, and many people (like me)
don't really ever cook with ground beef for that reason.

But if they've nailed the taste, then perhaps they can start making something
leaner, akin to ground turkey? For me, that would have a larger impact on my
regular diet.

~~~
ensiferum
The only thing worth eating there from keto diet perspective is the fat but it
better be good fat! (No cheap vegetable oils or hydrogenated fats)

------
dreamcompiler
The 1.0 version was not very good, at least to this meat-lover. I tried it at
White Castle several months ago and I'd never order another one. Here's hoping
the 2.0 version is good enough to move me further in the vegetarian direction.

~~~
imjk
I wonder how much the purveyor makes a difference in the quality of the
product (I'm hoping not much). I had the opposite experience as you, but I
bought my Impossible from an Umami Burger and it was seriously a surreal
experience for me and my gf. I was so pleasantly surprised by how good it was
that we went back the next day to get another.

~~~
anyfoo
Same here, fiancée and I had one at Umami Burger and were very impressed, had
several since then (and we do eat meat), and always introduce friends to it
when they are in town. Also tried it at some non-chain (I believe) SF
restaurant and they nailed it, too, though in both cases I can imagine they
know how to prepare it.

------
alexc05
I really can’t wait for these to show up in Canada

------
phkahler
Why do some vegans and vegetarians want to eat something that looks like meat?

This is not to say vegans and vegetarians are the only market for plant-based
"meat" or "burgers".

~~~
PhasmaFelis
> _Why do some vegans and vegetarians want to eat something that looks like
> meat?_

Why _wouldn 't_ they? Most humans are hardwired to enjoy meat, whether or not
they choose to indulge. Vegetarianism/veganism as an ethical stance is about
humane treatment of animals. Enjoying the taste and texture of meat is
completely orthogonal.

I've spoken to several people who think that veganism is just about personal
taste, including a couple of actual vegans, and I don't understand where this
idea comes from.

~~~
technofiend
>Vegetarianism/veganism as an ethical stance is about humane treatment of
animals.

No doubt, but there are health-related reasons to do it as well; I'm not as
concerned about a plant-based meat substitute triggering my diverticulitis,
for instance. I actively avoid eating burgers because too much red meat
definitely does.

------
wavegeek
Would it kill them to provide some decent nutritional information? Like how
much salt is in the product?

I found in the past that all the palatable meat substitutes were loaded with
salt.

~~~
ruffrey
From their FAQ: 430 mg sodium in 3 oz

[https://images.ctfassets.net/hhv516v5f7sj/5p1YQzJxduEoC2gIWa...](https://images.ctfassets.net/hhv516v5f7sj/5p1YQzJxduEoC2gIWaWaEg/a23f00495d6d2e7edabbfd898a96fc6f/Oriole-1_85g_3_oz_Label.png)

[https://impossiblefoods.com/faq/](https://impossiblefoods.com/faq/)

------
picodguyo
I'm happy to see continued growth in this area, but I'm disappointed to see
them shifting more toward soy. I'll be sticking with the Beyond Burger for
now.

~~~
leereeves
I'd like to see more non-soy veggie convenience products myself. I'd like to
eat a more varied diet full of fruits and vegetables, rather than simply
replacing meat+dairy+grains with soy+soymilk+grains, but it's really hard to
find non-soy veggie products without cooking everything from scratch.

------
mises
The concept of meat alternatives is interesting, but there are of course some
possible issues.

First, with soy: the jury is still on the effects on men. Maybe it's fine,
maybe it's not. Until the full effects are known, I'm not comfortable risking
growing breasts. It might not even effect most people, but if it does for
some, I want to make sure I'm not one.[0] Also, it's possible that some
chemicals in it cause cancer.[1] Though with that said, I've started to wonder
if everything causes cancer in one way or another.

Second, we don't know if some people are better/worse equipped to process soy.
I'd analogize this to japanese having special gut bacteria to process sushi
and seaweed.[2][3] Maybe those races which have eaten more can process better?
Who knows. Maybe it could cause injuries to liver or kidney in people not as
well equipped to process it? Large quantities of many things can do this.[4]
Again, if we want to tell everyone to replace meat, further research is
undoubtedly necessary.

Lastly, thinking you ate something can make your body do certain things it
normally does, even if you didn't. This is called the cephalic response.[5] If
you've ever heard that looking at pictures of dessert can raise your blood
sugar, this is the explanation. This is down to total guesswork, but who knows
what could happen? Cephalic response means more hcl is secreted. Let's say
we're calibrated to release 10 arbitrary units for meat, but 4 for veggie
(meat takes more to break down). So you smell and taste meat, and release 10
units. But you eat veggie, so where does the rest go? What if it contributed
to an ulcer or heartburn? And could this extend to the delicate balance of
enzymes in the rest of the body?

Sustainability is a laudable goal, but we shouldn't try to radically alter
people's diets without being really, really sure that we're correct. I view
anything less as irresponsible. Go back to when people thought fat was evil
and sugar was fine, and so people got fat and diabetic. Let's all try to be
more responsible this time.

[0] [https://worldnewsdailyreport.com/england-man-grows-
breasts-a...](https://worldnewsdailyreport.com/england-man-grows-breasts-
after-drinking-too-much-soy-milk/)

[1] [https://www.breastcancer.org/research-news/soy-may-turn-
on-g...](https://www.breastcancer.org/research-news/soy-may-turn-on-genes-
linked-to-cancer)

[2] [https://www.wired.com/2010/04/sushi-
guts/](https://www.wired.com/2010/04/sushi-guts/)

[3] [http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2010/04/japanese-guts-are-
mad...](http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2010/04/japanese-guts-are-made-sushi)

[4]
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4435388/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4435388/)

[5]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalic_phase](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalic_phase)

------
spacemanmatt
Ew.

------
colordrops
Does anyone else get indigestion after eating one of these modern meat
substitutes?

~~~
nickik
Very unspecific. Things that get tagged 'meat substitutes' are a large amount
of different things with totally different stuff in them, there is nothing to
generalize here.

~~~
colordrops
Ok, I just mean beyond beef and impossible burgers.

------
ousta
I tried 1.0 it was horrible. even a macdonald hamburger was more edible. I
doubt that heavily process soybeans (known for developing breast in men) are
the way to go. but who knows im not a marketing manager.

------
p1necone
Is the Impossible Burger much better than Beyond Meat? Because I've had the
Beyond Meat patty (from a vegan chain called Lord of the Fries, their standard
beef substitute is great) and it was awful - very obvious that it was made
from plants (tasted like root vegetables with a weird chemical/metallic tang
to me) and the texture was way off. It could have been prepared poorly though.

~~~
WorldMaker
I do think that the Impossible Burger is much better than Beyond Burger. It's
a lot of subtle things that Impossible gets right. (The fact that it "bleeds"
is fascinating and interesting part of its appeal to old carnivore instincts.)

That said there is room for both at the table and right now they both have
different strengths (Impossible handles "medium rare" much better; Beyond hits
greasy spoon / fast food "medium" or "medium well" better).

