
National parks face years of damage from government shutdown - ngmc
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/01/why-national-parks-trashed-during-government-shutdown/
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nafizh
Really sad. I would think if there is no one to take care of the parks then
it's only common sense to have them closed to tourists.

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jumpinalake
In Canada we have a good parks system and yet I must admit that the US park
system is phenomenally well run and contains so much diversity. I suspect that
us visitors take for granted how much work is involved in maintaining the
cleanliness and illusion of untouched solitude. We are so fortunate to be able
to enjoy it and I hope any shutdown damages are minimal.

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knewter
I bridle at any article that makes claims like this. if a few weeks of shut
down causes years of damage and you aren't a nuclear power plant, I call BS.
people's critical thinking skills go out the window when it's politically
convenient to believe garbage.

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mulmen
TFA clearly states the ways in which this shutdown could lead to lasting
damage. I would encourage you to think critically about the effect of
widespread litter or sewage spills or off-trail hiking in a national park
setting. Additionally think of facilities in inhospitable conditions.

The comparison to nuclear reactors is odd. It suggests to me you think
National Parks are a more trivial operation than a power plant. I think they
are far too different to make this comparison.

A pet goldfish is not as complicated to keep alive as a power plant but if you
don’t feed it then it dies.

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burfog
Are you actually bothered by widespread litter or sewage spills or off-trail
hiking, or is that just something convenient for a political fight? Actual
concern would mean you want to save Organ Pipe National Monument and Big Bend
National Park by building a wall to protect those fragile desert ecosystems.
The shutdown, assuming it results in a wall, would prevent lots of lasting
damage.

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mulmen
I do care about off trail hiking in _all_ national parks because of the
obvious damage that causes. I also care about preventing littering
_everywhere_. Including national parks. My concern for these topics is
unrelated to my stance on a border wall.

I don’t appreciate your unfounded implication that my concern for national
parks is somehow politically motivated or excludes specific parks.

I also don’t appreciate your attempts to drag this conversation off topic. The
article is about lasting damage to national parks due to a government
shutdown. The article is not about a wall or the border.

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burfog
Superficially, the article is about lasting damage to national parks due to a
government shutdown.

Ask yourself why the article was written. Pay attention to the fact that the
damage is blown all out of proportion. The article lists things that aren't
long-term (unclean toilets and unemptied trash) and other things (walking off
trails) that are a normal occurrence during non-shutdown times.

There is no question in my mind that this article was not written with any
legitimate concern for national parks getting damaged. The most generous
assumption would be ordinary fearmongering because a writer needs to catch
eyeballs.

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mulmen
The most generous assumption is that the article was written in good faith and
that the government shutdown has a material effect on the parks as described.

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burfog
That is nothing compared to the damage happening at the border. There are
piles of trash, unauthorized trails carved through fragile ecosystems, fires,
and human bodies. This shutdown is part of a fight over a wall that would
protect several national parks and national monuments from this massive
ongoing ecological damage.

[https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/park-service-illegals-
des...](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/park-service-illegals-destroying-
federal-lands-unsafe-for-camping)

[https://www.desertinvasion.us/](https://www.desertinvasion.us/)

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mulmen
The border is not a national park. Your whataboutism is not compelling.

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burfog
Big Bend National Park is on the border. BTW, it is a UNESCO designated
Biosphere Reserve.

Organ Pipe National Monument is on the border.

They are being destroyed. The rest of the ecosystem, outside of those, is also
worth protecting.

~~~
mulmen
The border is not a park but there are parks on the border. Some parks are on
the border but not all of them. Similarly squares are rectangles but not all
rectangles are square.

Clearly the border is worth protecting and so are parks. I don’t see anyone
disputing that in this context. You seem to be arguing against a straw man.

Your original comment dismissed concerns about protecting parks off the border
by changing the subject to border conditions. This is whataboutism and is a
logical fallacy.

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burfog
The non-border parks aren't suffering much unusual damage. That is alarmist
nonsense. Toilets may overflow, and piles of trash will form around the trash
cans, but this is pretty easy to fix.

The bit in the article about walking off of trails is particularly silly.
People will do that or not, unaffected by the shutdown. Nothing will change.
Meanwhile, that is actually a serious problem for the border parks. There we
have all sorts of unauthorized trails crudely carved through fragile
ecosystems.

It is perfectly legitimate to point out hypocrisy and insane priorities, and
slapping a silly label like "whataboutism" on it does nothing to change that.
I swear, there is something like Godwin's law for "whataboutism".

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mulmen
TFA clearly explains the ways in which parks are experiencing lasting damage
due to the shutdown. This is happening regardless of their location relative
to the border.

Please refute the claims in the article directly instead of dismissing them
out of hand.

