

Coinbase you're so fucked - eliransapir

So i have been using coinbase for a couple of weeks now. Yes getting money in and out of an exchange in the US is difficult pre coinbase, and no one wants to pay the fees of BitInstant (fees+bitcoin = evil in all its glory, but thats a different post) so i started using coinbase. What does coinbase do? They let you use ACH for getting money in and out of the exchange. It is the reason they are successful, it is also the reason they will fail.<p>How does it work? You create a coinbase account, you then link this unverified account with your bank account using these 2 options: 1.you can hand over your online banking u&#x2F;p for instant verification or 2. you give them your account # + routing number for them to make 2 small deposits to verify that it is in fact your account. You can see it here: http:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.coinbase.com&#x2F;post&#x2F;34357253898&#x2F;you-can-now-buy-and-sell-bitcoin-by-connecting-any-u-s<p>So far so good right? Wrong. Exchanges can&#x27;t use ACH its plain and simple - anyone can do a chargeback at anytime.<p>Now lets just imagine that they make $200k or so in transaction fees a month which i estimate they should have hit by now, i&#x27;m going to show you how one scammer can take that all away in a bit instant... (pun intended)<p>6 steps:
1. Open a shell company
2. Open a bank account and deposit 25k in seed money
3. Open a coinbase account transfer your money in and buy some coins
4. send your coins out to MtGox or another exchange and cash out
5. Deposit the money back in your account and repeat second part of step 3 + 4
6. Walk over to your bank&#x27;s local branch and file for a chargeback claiming you dont recognize the transaction.<p>Now you&#x27;re left with both your cash and your coins, which technically are liquid enough (unless MtGox goes rogue but then everyone is fuck&#x27;d as well..)<p>Coinbase, i wish you gents luck and i think you should not rely on ACH.
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ig1
ACH fraud isn't a new thing, generally if the vendor can show evidence to the
bank that the transaction was legitimate (the verification & IP checks are
probably sufficient) they can suspend the chargeback.

There's also the deterrent factor, what your suggesting violates a whole
number of criminal laws including wire fraud and money laundering. So we're
talking seizure of assets and significant jail time.

Moreover if you're convicted of such a crime you can pretty much say goodbye
to ever getting any kind of financial product at any kind of reasonable price
ever again. No credit, no mortgage, no insurance, etc. You may even struggle
to get a regular bank account.

You've got a pretty high-chance of being caught assuming the exchange even has
rudimentary fraud detection, so doing it for $200k is crazy because the pay-
off is so low.

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bubul
ACH fraud is ok for vendors that are a) creditors b) selling a trackable
product (eg. something with a fedex tracking number)

Neither the verification nor ip address is admissible, and if any marketplace
owner thinks it ok to use ACH they are out of their mind.

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ig1
> Neither the verification nor ip address is admissible

I suggest you research ACH, banks can and have reversed chargebacks in such
cases.

Your bank account will be flagged onto the bank (and government) watch-list
anyway for making high-value money transfers without clear cause. People try
to do far more sophisticated fraud than you're imagining and banks do a
reasonably good job at spotting it.

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aimatt
They also have daily trading limits as well as a grace period while they wait
for the transaction to complete.

