
The Call of the Ocean: Hypertext, Universal and Open (1988) - kick
https://archive.org/details/callofoceanhyper00tedn_201909/page/n4/mode/2up
======
jake-low
Fascinating read.

Nelson’s ideas of an open universal hypertext system is in many was incredibly
prescient of our modern web. But one thing he (and others) got wrong(1) is the
concept of backlinks: the ability of a user to see, for any page, a list of
other pages (including those by other authors) which link to it.

It’s hard for me to imagine what the web of today would look like with this
feature. Ignoring the (probably insurmountable) technical problems, I wonder
what would happen if backlinks became available to web users today. How would
it change the way we interact with and design websites?

(1): perhaps “foresaw differently” is more charitable since Nelson
acknowledges that many systems do not include the feature and is arguing that
the system of the future _should_.

~~~
pjc50
The early 2000s blog community invented "trackback" for that purpose, but what
Nelson didn't forsee was the inevitable problem of a truly open system: spam
and other abuse.

~~~
Firadeoclus
Indeed, what is possible to do in a private or moderated/curated web is quite
different from the limits of an open web.

------
cryo
"[Read] everything from Ted Nelson" – Joe Armstrong

Keynote: The Forgotten Ideas in Computer Science - Code BEAM SF 2018:

[https://youtu.be/-I_jE0l7sYQ?t=2002](https://youtu.be/-I_jE0l7sYQ?t=2002)

~~~
kick
Ted Nelson is my favorite example of a—smart, no doubt—man who can have all of
the right ideas* yet see no real success in his personal career. I hope he
sees a little more appreciation before he goes; maybe visual connections will
take off, or a ZigZag-clone.

*His ideas on DRM don't count: too far after his time.

~~~
nabla9
Reason for his non-success is clear.

Nelson called for universal and open, but his Xandadu project was closed and
ZigZag algorithm patented. He wanted to own and control the hypertex and sell
the applications that use it.

He made some moves to open it up when it was too late.

------
DonHopkins
Ted Nelson: Computer Lib / Dream Machines (1975) [pdf] (worrydream.com)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19249556](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19249556)

[http://worrydream.com/refs/Nelson-
ComputerLibDreamMachines19...](http://worrydream.com/refs/Nelson-
ComputerLibDreamMachines1975.pdf)

For what it's worth, YC is helping Ted Nelson sell his "Computer Lib / Dream
Machines" book:

[https://twitter.com/nolimits/status/1087770718878687232](https://twitter.com/nolimits/status/1087770718878687232)

This book is a truly unique and is worth owning in hardcopy format.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19058137](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19058137)

Ted versus The Media Lab [video] (youtube.com)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22169775](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22169775)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH4Kr3Gsadc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH4Kr3Gsadc)

Interview with Ted Nelson (notion.so)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19057331](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19057331)

[https://www.notion.so/tools-and-craft/03-ted-
nelson](https://www.notion.so/tools-and-craft/03-ted-nelson)

Ted Nelson on What Modern Programmers Can Learn from the Past [video]
(ieee.org)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16222520](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16222520)

[https://spectrum.ieee.org/video/geek-life/profiles/ted-
nelso...](https://spectrum.ieee.org/video/geek-life/profiles/ted-nelson-on-
what-modern-programmers-can-learn-from-the-past)

Ted Nelson struggles with uncomprehending radio interviewer (1979) [audio]
(youtube.com)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17376753](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17376753)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVU62CQTXFI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVU62CQTXFI)

Ted Nelson’s published papers on computers and interaction, 1965 to 1977
(archive.org)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16245697](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16245697)

[https://archive.org/details/SelectedPapers1977](https://archive.org/details/SelectedPapers1977)

Ask HN: What is the best resource for understanding Ted Nelson's ZigZag?

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22518401](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22518401)

[http://www.xanadu.com.au/ted/XUsurvey/xuDation.html](http://www.xanadu.com.au/ted/XUsurvey/xuDation.html)

[http://mimix.io/getting-to-xanadu](http://mimix.io/getting-to-xanadu)

Alan Kay's tribute to Ted Nelson at "Intertwingled" Fest (how the script of
Tron was the first movie script to ever be edited by a word processing
program, on the Alto computer)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnrlSqtpOkw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnrlSqtpOkw)

"Silicon Valley Story" — a Very Short Romantic Comedy by Ted Nelson

A playful story about the microcircuitry of love, with Ted Nelson as an
absentminded genius, featuring Doug Engelbart as Ted's father and Stewart
Brand as the villainous CEO.

Closing song: "Information Flow", sung by Donna Spitzer and the auteur.

With Timothy Leary as the Good Venture Capitalist!

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXlyMrv8_dQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXlyMrv8_dQ)

Ted Nelson's Channel

[https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr_DXJ7ZUAJO_d8CnHYTDMQ](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr_DXJ7ZUAJO_d8CnHYTDMQ)

~~~
lioeters
Oh, joy - the play "Silicon Valley Story" by Ted Nelson is so funny, weird,
and self-consciously awkward in the best theatrical sense. Brilliant. I had
never seen that before.

Saved the whole list in study/ted-nelson.txt. Thank you for gathering the
links and sharing. (I'm a long-time fan of your work!)

