
Ask HN: Advice for first-time dog owners? - ndanmand
Dear all,<p>I am an academic, looking to adopt a dog.<p>My girlfriend and I (mid 30&#x27;s) are seriously considering adopting a dog (8 weeks old); Preferably a Bernese Mountain Dog or Golden Retriever. We both come from families with dogs. However, taking responsibility for a dog will be a first-timer for the both of us.<p>We want to develop the necessary skills for training a family dog. I tend to study rather intensively when entering new fields (whether work or hobby). However, it feels like much dog-advice and books are based on assumptions and individuals&#x27; bits of advice, rather than broadly credited theories?<p>I was hoping that the HN community - which I do appreciate very much - can suggest resources that inspired&#x2F;inspires you for training (and living with) a &quot;good boy&#x2F;girl&quot;?
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kace91
Most important bit of advice you need: there are many many schools of training
out there (referring both to books/resources and professional trainers) that
base their advice in outdated, unscientific and frankly abusive dominance
theories.

Long story short, every time you hear or read things like "alpha male",
"becoming leader of the pack", or similar, _walk away_.

Despite the theories having been rebuked for decades, thousand of
authoritative sources still parrot them because for some reason it resonates
with some trainers and dog owners. It's sad, but there are fields in life
where, if you want to educate yourself, filtering the bad advice and not
trusting your sources is 90% of the work (Raising a dog is one of those
fields, weight training and nutrition are others for example).

All you need for good training is positive rewards and punishing bad behavior
with lack of attention "·(ie. If the dog is too excited and stars o jumping
around you physically turn around and refuse to acknowledge him/her until they
calm).

Have fun with your new friend! :)

~~~
anotheryou
Also no kennel needed (maybe a barrier until they stop peeing on your carpet
at most), just train the dog to behave...

And it makes sense to be very consequent about rules. Don't make exceptions.
No food at the table (watch your guests), not going on to the bed, has to ask
to join on the couch, no crossing a street without a "go" etc. If you want to
share bed and fork with your dog that's of course your choice too :)

And of course don't "calm them down" with food or something when barking...

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bravura
A dog is a serious responsibility. I always advise first time pet owners to
have a child and see how that goes first.

~~~
bauerd
Because a child is a less serious responsibility or … ?

~~~
Fire-Dragon-DoL
Because a child signals are potentially easier to understand, due to the
parent and the child being from the same species.

Kind of funny, we did make a similar choice (although only in terms of which
one first. We wanted children) and the feeling of being incompetent dog owners
was one of the reasons pro "no dog"

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personlurking
Training and socialization are top priorities. It seems obvious but, as I've
met unruly dogs, it must not be that obvious to all. Short of those two
things, look for videos, forums and communities in general that are
specifically for your dog type. Learn about the breed-specific temperment.

And something else to think about: consider getting two of [insert pet]. Sure,
you can bring your only dog to the dog park, take it on a walk in the morning
and play with it at night, but what about the rest of the time, sitting alone
either in the yard or in the house? Dogs get separation anxiety and need a lot
of engagement. A normal house is essentially a dog-sized cage, akin to that of
a bird. Providing a companion can be life-changing for your pet.

~~~
echelon
I second the "get two dogs" idea.

I have a corgi and a shiba inu and they entertain each other all day long.
Their personalities play off of each other. It's really adorable.

~~~
senectus1
Having three Chihuahua's I'll agree whole heartedly.. Don't leave a dog alone
at any time... they need companions.

Also, socialize your dogs as often as possible. let them meet and play with
lots and lots of other "strange" dogs. It'll help them interact with the
outside world better.

~~~
082349872349872
Socialisation may be easier by following the procedure for picking hunting
dogs from a litter: introduce a few novelties, and regard the reactions.
Prefer the dogs which show initial interest, then return to what they were
doing. Those which either take no notice, or remain overly attentive, are
probably more difficult to socialise.

Agree on the companion.

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bbotond
I'm the same and I was sad to discover that there aren't any good science-
based resources on dog training. What you'll find are books and videos based
on the author's personal experience. You'll find pieces of advice from
respected authors that directly contradict each other.

What I realized after adopting my dog is that dogs are much smarter than we
think in a lot of ways. They adapt to your habits and lifestyle very quickly
and they go out of their way to please you. Their emotions are much more
complex than we think. If you develop a good relationship with your dog (and
with this, almost no advice can help, it has to happen naturally), everything
else follows naturally. No book learning will help you with that - it
certainly didn't help me, even though I read tons of books and watched many
videos before getting my dog.

Dog training is a lot like parenting in that respect.

EDIT: after thinking a bit, I realized I can give two pieces of advice that I
think are very important.

(1) Early socialization. This should be your no. 1 priority. Go to puppy
classes, go out of your way to meet as many different dogs and people as
possible. Go to different places like parks, public transport, coffee shops,
etc.

(2) Something I realized that while positive training is very popular these
days (for good reasons), there are some cases when you MUST be firm with your
dog. You can't explain to a dog why going off the sidewalk without permission
is extremely dangerous. The only way I could train my dog not to was to shout
at him at the exact moment he tried it, and praise him a lot when he turned
around. Now he is off-leash 99% of the time and 100% reliable. I never ever
beat him though - the only negative reinforcement I needed was a very quick
and loud scolding.

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talkingtab
Here's a theory for you.

\- Dogs are just like people except that their ability to understand things is
limited. Not as limited as you might think, because I have seen dogs who were
keenly aware of exactly what they can get away with. Some dogs, like some
people are indeed stupid, and my advice is to get a dog that is a smart as you
are but no smarter. But you have to explain things to dogs in a way they can
understand.

\- Dogs have a pecking order and as the owner you will establish where you are
in that order - as seen by the dog. Some dogs assume people are superior, but
many of them know better until proven otherwise. So you need to be aware of
when your dog challenges you. This is not an opportunity to be mean, this is
an opportunity to show you are a kind yet firm leader.

\- Dogs want you to like them. Not to see them as pets but to like them, so
make sure you establish the pecking order in a way that you can still be
friends. And keep a sense of humor.

\- Dogs are instinctual. Do not expect a lab to ignore a thrown tennis ball,
or an open container of food. If your dog ate all the dog food that is not a
"bad" dog that is a mistake you made. Bad Human, Bad! This goes for breeds of
dogs that have traits and especially working dogs. They will try to work.

\- Be a responsible person and understand the health issues your dog may have.
Many dogs have health issues because of breeding so know this and check it.
Also, if you are unsure you want or can keep a dog, borrow one for a week.
Better yet borrow two different ones. Just as we don't return babies once they
are born, you should not return your dog - unless it is better for the dog.

\- Finally teach your dog to lie down when you say "down" and point to the
ground. Your dog should allow anyone, even a four year old human to give it
this command. At any time in any circumstances. You will be pleased you have
done this.

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ApolloRising
If you prefer intense study: [https://leerburg.com/](https://leerburg.com/)

Get the golden, it will be easier to socialize and easier to train than most
other breeds for first timers. You probably know this but dogs are not kids,
babies, toys, they need clear boundaries and structure and exercise. If you
can't do all 3 on your own, don't get one.

The harder part is decide who is the sole owner of the dog. A bad breakup can
cause a lot of issues later with who is responsible for the dog. Figure this
out up front to save a lot of headache later. One of you is the owner, both of
you can also be a caregiver and pay for expenses. Co-owner is a big no no if
anything does go wrong.

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hmate9
1) Take your dog to dog school. Take him, not leave him in doggy day care.
Your dog will learn to socialise at a young age (very important) and you will
learn how to handle and train your dog.

2) Zak George On YouTube has great content for beginners

3) Frequent and short training sessions are better than infrequent and long
ones

4) Enjoy it. Millions of people have dogs, it’s not extremely difficult to do.
If you have the time to give your dog affection, exercise and mental
stimulation you will be an excellent dog owner.

5) Seriously. Dog school.

~~~
panacea
I prefer the term ‘Human School’... because that’s how we learn to be good dog
owners.

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lordnacho
I got a dog last year, a lab. To start with, you want one with a temperament
that suits you. My dog is very mellow, no aggression at all. Make sure you get
to see the puppy with its mother. That will also tell you if the seller is
legit.

You have to have time to train it. Both for the practical stuff like not
pooping inside, but also behaviour so the dog does what you want.

Try some different foods, toys and leads. It's interesting how one variety
works while the others don't. Eg I got a front leader for the leash and she's
much easier to walk. Similar with food, some things she likes for whatever
reason.

I also found that dog manuals are like baby manuals. Lots of unsubstantiated
advice. Who knows whether anyone has tested it. All you can do is think
whether it seems likely that there's been enough observations that someone
with no statistical knowledge would get the right conclusions anyway.

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merelysounds
Both this book and the youtube channel has been very helpful for us:
[https://www.dogtrainingrevolution.com/](https://www.dogtrainingrevolution.com/)

I like how it focuses on positive training and how it explains important
concepts in detail.

The author has also launched a series where he shows how he’s training a puppy
from 8 weeks into adulthood:
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mIot0mHLemQ](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mIot0mHLemQ)

Here is another channel with helpful tips, this particular video has been very
useful to me:
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht8ncX4Kq7M](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht8ncX4Kq7M)

It shows a sensible and organised approach to toys; it helped me plan what
toys to get and how to explain the rules of play.

------
simonblack
Where you live makes a big difference as to what breed of dog you get.

If you are not able to 'work' the dog, never get a 'working dog' like a
shepherd. They will be bored out of their brain with nothing to do and will be
naughty and destructive.

If you can't exercise the dog and you live in a small apartment, a large dog
will feel cooped-up.

We live in an apartment, we've had one miniature poodle till he died and now,
after five years, have another.

She is an 'inside' dog, and has been trained not to soil the place. She goes
out for a 'poo walk' every morning about 6-7 am, and has a 'wee pad' on the
balcony. She literally is a member of the family rather than a pet.

------
hashmush
Get a breed that fits you, your country's kennel club should have lots of
information.

Don't listen to Cesar Millan, his methods are outdated (like 50 years behind
current science IIUC). Focus on positive reinforcement, you want to have fun
with your dog, not dominate it.

Do things in different environments to make your dog comfortable and have
confidence (e.g. go to both city centers and the forest). Also, if you have
time for it, pick up an activity like agility (super fun, we do it a lot) or
nose work. It helps both you, your dog and strengthens your bond.

There is definitely science behind training and dog behavior, but I can only
give you pointers in Swedish unfortunately.

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fooblat
I would say make sure to look into the needs of the exact breed you intend to
adopt and make sure that fits with your lifestyle. For example some dogs needs
1+ hours solid exercise everyday or they get very destructive in your house.

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brudgers
Are you adopting a dog or buying one? There are plenty of homes for Bernese
Mountain Dogs and Golden Retrievers. Less glamours mutts are counting days
before euthanization.

Which is my advice. Know your motivations. Analyze your ability to accept a
dog as they are versus demanding they meet your expectations. Every dog will
go running with you. Will enjoy cream cheese at breakfast. Will curl up on the
bed. Will try to eat a dead seagull on the beach.

Good luck.

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aegis4244
Dog whisperer videos. If you have kids, have the kids give tons of tummy rubs.
Seriously.

Dogs only really argue about who is the boss. If you are on your back with
your feet in the air having your belly rubbed- you are not the boss. This
matters because the boss dog can do anything it wants. Including bite your
kid. Make sure the dog knows the kid is actually a boss dog.

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epanchin
Working dogs are a bit like teenagers, they get bored and destructive unless
they’ve got purpose and kept busy.

Retrievers are easier. Feed them, show them love and take them on walks and
they’re happy.

If you spend a entire day working your retriever will lie next to you. The
Burmese will find a block of cheese somewhere and either eat it or bury it in
the garden to eat later.

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aegis4244
Get the golden, or even better,get a black lab from the pound. Great dogs.
Smart. Easy to teach. Great family dogs. Also, once they go into a pound, they
don't come out. Everyone chooses a 'pretty: dog with an interesting color
coat. Don't pick the prettiest dog. Someone else will. Pick a smart trainable
black lab.

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gigatexal
Not sure about the Bernese breeds but the Golden Retriever breed is easily
teachable in my experience. I have had success with consistent short lessons
before meals and after they have had time to play as they seem to have less
energy then and are better able to focus. Good luck!

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hprotagonist
a good dog is a tired dog, writes wes siler, and he’s not wrong.

[https://www.outsideonline.com/2177341/theres-no-such-
thing-g...](https://www.outsideonline.com/2177341/theres-no-such-thing-good-
dog)

Most of his columns are sensible.

I’ve met one sane jack russell terrier in my life: that dog had 50 acres and
25 head of sheep to occupy himself with every day and he was the sweetest dog
ever after he’d gotten his daily work done.

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sys_64738
In particular, make sure the dog is trained to not run or jump at people.
Nobody wants a monster dog attacking them so do training right.

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flyinglizard
Many principles of training neural networks apply to dogs, so maybe take up on
TensorFlow.

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sokoloff
Dog training classes (for non-specialty dogs) are almost entirely about
training the human to be consistent.

My experience (dog count of one as an adult, after reading a dozen training
books and doing two dog basic obedience courses [about 8 sessions each])
matches that. Our dog knows what she can get away with with different family
members and I’ve inadvertently taught her to “politely beg” for snacks in
certain circumstances that I will try not to repeat for any later dogs.

Make them feel secure, be consistent, be wary of over-treating and being too
varied in training. “Come”, “Comehere”, “Get over here” might as well be three
different commands. One trainer said dogs don’t generalize well. They might
quickly learn “when he says that and I’m in the kitchen and he’s holding a
bowl, I should sit” much faster than “when he says that and we’re outside and
a squirrel is running around, I should sit” much faster than “anytime he says
that, I should sit”. (It’s really fun watching them puzzle it out and I could
tell when my dog was really trying vs just being disengaged.)

What would I do the same: crate train. love my dog and make her feel protected
and provided for. Do basic obedience training. Lots of short training
sessions. 10 3-minute sessions a day is not wrong. 1 hour-long session is.
Ensure that if she ignores a command she knows that I consistently enforce
that what I want happens. (If she ignores a come command for example, I will
always march to her and make her come to where I was standing when I issued
it. My spouse does not [despite being overall more consistent]. Our dog knows
this and acts accordingly.)

What would I do differently? Fewer treats during non-training times. Teach the
kids to give the same consistent commands. (Dog pre-dates kids in our house,
so this was not possible.)

Our dog is 15 pounds and we decided to let her on the furniture (inc bed) and
we’d do that again for a dog under 20 pounds. With a larger dog, don’t let the
puppy dog on the furniture if you don’t want the adult dog on it.

100% agree on the suggestion to pre-determine dog ownership and not have it be
50/50, we’ll figure it out, YOLO.

I would 100% crate train. The amount of consistency it provides helps
incredibly, not just for potty-training (but it’s incredibly helpful for that,
of course). It’s not doggy jail (unless you use it to punish, in which case
just don’t get a dog). Our dog would happily go to her crate when overwhelmed
by kid visitors and though we later took the crate away, we put the same
little padded mats in several spots around the house for her, including one in
a closet that she likes to use while we’re working or during thunderstorms.

I hesitate to recommend specific books as I read a stack of them and probably
got something from all of the first four or five.

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ndanmand
We appreciate all your comments - Thank you!

