
India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register - 0xmohit
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/assam-india-detention-camps-bangladesh-nrc-list-a9099251.html
======
webartisan
This is especially disappointing considering the time, legal and
administrative effort and money will be spent on trialing and detention of
alleged non-citizens.

For a government which has attained a historical majority for the second time,
just imagine the impact they can have if they focussed this energy on
improving economic and human-life indicators instead. India still ranks 103 on
the world hunger index, even below its less developed neighbour – Pakistan.

I hope they don't squander this majority away, but I fear they will.

------
silentguy
Sequence of events:

* Indigenous people of Assam complain about illegal immigrants from Bangladesh.

* BJP (party in power) promises to deport illegal immigrants

* NRC (National Registry of Citizenship) law is brought to identify and deport illegal immigrants, most of them believed to be Muslims. NRC is applied in Assam for the cost of 16 Billion INR. 1.9 million illegal immigrants are identified.

* It is found that 1.2 million immigrants are Hindus. BJP, a pro Hindu party, can't afford to deport 1.2 million Hindus.

* CAA (Citizenship Amendment Act) is brought to give citizenship to all but Muslim.

* Protests erupt over this act being signed by government.

~~~
fellellor
This entire sequence is incorrect. The sequence dates back to the Assam Accord
of 1985 when the current BJP was nowhere close to power. Then there was the
Supreme Court mandated NRC process which was decided in 2013. Without mention
of these, your so called sequence of events is nothing but a bunch of lies.

------
pavish
For those of you supporting the government's take on this, and their argument
that proper documentation is all it takes for being included in the NRC, how
do you care to explain that the family of the former president of India
'Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed' was left out of NRC?

CAB is just an anti-muslim filter, and it's downright unethical.

[https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/former-president-
fakhr...](https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/former-president-fakhruddin-
ali-ahmed-family-again-left-out-of-nrc-list-1594188-2019-09-01)

Edit:

If CAB was truly meant only to deny illegal immigrants, which is infact a
right move from a country trying to support its citizens, why base it on
religion?

Arguments that say that other religions are persecuted in the neighbouring
states, what about Myanmar? The Rohingya persecution has been going on for
years and our government has done nothing notable about it. What about
Srilanka and the mass genocide of Tamils? Rohingyas and Srilankan Tamils are
mostly Hindus. Why not extend the help to them too? Why focus only upon the
Muslim majority nations?

The issue that is concerning is the fact that the act specifically makes it
harder for Muslims to become citizens. The question here is whether the
government is actually trying to prevent illegal immigration or trying to cut
down Muslim population in particular.

~~~
timbuck2
Rohingyas are mostly Hindus?
[https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/05/myanmar-
new-e...](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/05/myanmar-new-evidence-
reveals-rohingya-armed-group-massacred-scores-in-rakhine-state/)

~~~
ninni
2.5% of Rohingya are Hindu. Not that it matters, given your predilections.

------
vijaybritto
This is a monstrous law.

The first step is to make millions of people illegal.

Next is to give all but Muslims citizenship. Muslims would be stripped off
their right to vote.

Even hitler would be inspired from such evil plans.

(Also from the comments everyone can see how heartless people can be)

~~~
baud147258
I don't think Hitler ever bothered by passing bills and announcing to the
world what he was about to do.

~~~
EliRivers
He did indeed.

[https://www.bl.uk/learning/histcitizen/voices/info/decrees/d...](https://www.bl.uk/learning/histcitizen/voices/info/decrees/decrees.html)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-
Jewish_legislation_in_pre...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-
Jewish_legislation_in_pre-war_Nazi_Germany)

------
cmonnow
There are few misconceptions about the recently enacted CAA, that need to be
clarified.

Citizenship Amendment Act is a law to fast-track citizenship of 'persecuted
religious minorities' in 3 neighboring countries
Afghanistan/Pakistan/Bangladesh.

It is a case of positive discrimination (affirmative action for the Americans)
towards Hindu/Christian/Sikh/Buddhist/Parsi refugees.

Here is the reddit thread explaining the Act's intricacies and FAQ -
[https://old.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/comments/e9qhvb/cab_in_...](https://old.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/comments/e9qhvb/cab_in_simple_words)

It does not affect normal citizens of India. It is also NOT a case of negative
discrimination against Muslim refugees, like most detractors claim it to be.
Official tweet from India's Home Ministry clarifies this -
[https://twitter.com/PIBHomeAffairs/status/120730412196068556...](https://twitter.com/PIBHomeAffairs/status/1207304121960685569).
The usual waiting period of 11 years stays as it is for them. For minority
refugees, it is reduced to 5 years. That's all.

Every country has a database of its citizens. India was lagging far behind in
this. Due to enormous population, porous borders and poor living conditions,
there are a lot more undocumented immigrants in India than probably any other
country on earth. The National Register of Citizens is an attempt to set that
right.

~~~
HaseebR7
FYI /r/IndiaSpeaks is India's version of /r/The_Donald

~~~
0xcafecafe
au contraire, /r/India is India's version of /r/The_Donald. As a centrist, I
have seen debates on /r/IndiaSpeaks but any contrary opinion on /r/India is
not tolerated at all.

------
pm90
This is extremely bad but also completely expected. Concrete promises of
economic growth are hard to deliver on, so the Politicians will focus on
inciting religious differences instead.

~~~
deepGem
This is beyond bad. The government has slowly inched to their religions roots
and have made religious segregation their primary mandate. I mean, at this
rate, we will be no different from Saudi Arabia or other countries where
religion dominates all policy decisions.

I don't know if Modi is a hard core religious fanatic or if his hands are just
tied down by RSS brass who are most likely inciting this nonsense, especially
at a stage when the economy is in near doldrums.

The government has also passed the equivalent of patriot act in India.
[https://techcrunch.com/2019/12/10/india-personal-data-
protec...](https://techcrunch.com/2019/12/10/india-personal-data-protection-
bill-2019/)

CAB + NRC + Data bill => Orwelian fucking dictatorship all around.

What an awful time to be in India. Sadly, most people will wake up to the
reality later than sooner.

~~~
dragonsh
It will be shameful to be an Indian and not to oppose it, this is completely
against the idea of India and the foundations of India. Today Gandhi and all
the martyrs of Indian freedom struggle must be crying in their graves. India
turned into a religious dictatorship with a handful of politicians using
divide and rule and slowly peeling the democracy one layer at a time (by
draconian laws, infringing human rights, infringing right to protest, and
forcefully suppress dissent).

Hopefully sense will prevail and supreme court rule this development as
unconstitutional (not so hopeful though, based on recent judgements).

~~~
vinni2
You would be surprised how many highly educated Indians even those who live in
the west support Modi and all this.

I remember in the Bay Area some Indians were campaigning and raising funds for
Modi. I was shocked.

~~~
kamaal
This is one of the most hypocritical things of being an NRI. You watch people
who want a good life in secular, liberal western democracies that makes
immigration easy for them. The same people want the very opposite conditions
in India.

Because: Hate.

------
xenocyon
I grew up in India and cherish where I came from, but the recent hard lurches
towards a fascist ethnostate - often with the enthusiastic support of India's
majority (including my family members) - sadden me deeply and make me wonder
what the future has in store.

~~~
enugu
India is far from being a fascist ethnostate, unless you have been reading
media reports which are filled with false details and crucial ommisions. In
fact, there are colonial laws which prevent Hindus from even running temples
or schools without being taken over by the state. Also, they are routinely the
targets of violence which dont come to prominence in western media reports.

One of the outcomes of this post is that the extreme bias in reporting in the
media has reached HN. For any Hindus reading this, stop responding emotionally
and instead try to document the various kinds of bias in media thoroughly.
People like Vamsee Juluri have written about coverage of Hindu issues in
prominent western media. Anand Ranganathan has logs of media bias on incidents
of violence etc.

------
sanmon3186
> The Goalpara camp is one of at least 10 planned detention centres, according
> to local media reports. It is around the size of seven football pitches and
> designed to hold 3,000 people.

While I empathize with the people being detained, the headline is really
misleading. Above makes it 21 thousands - or of that order.

------
_bxg1
Man. What is it with this wave of nationalistic zealotry that seems to be
sweeping most of the world? Has it just been long enough since World War 2
that it's already time to re-learn these lessons?

~~~
pavlov
Even more recently, we saw the utter destruction brought by nationalists after
the break-up of Yugoslavia no more than 25 years ago.

In Bosnia, nationalist zealots killed civilians and committed genocide. If
you've forgotten, look up Sarajevo and Srebrenica. There were murder camps put
up by "Make Serbia Great Again" type nationalists. Their stated goal: "to
contain the spread of Islam in Europe."

Only 25 years ago... And today the President of the United States is a man who
sounds just like Milosevic. This rehabilitation of nationalism is the greatest
disappointment of my lifetime.

------
azifali
As a Muslim immigrant entrepreneur living in the Valley, I had to call my
parents to allay their fears of the current law. A community of 200 million
feels threatened. I don’t understand how immigrants from India support modi.
Is it because he panders to our immigrant egos?

We are a minority in this country and as one community we face the continued
threat of right wing groups here., despite that I am amazed by the support of
the same kind or worse right wing party in India.

------
blaser-waffle
The return of the concentration camp:

\- Ugyers in China

\- US draconian immigration detention centers

\- Now India is gettin into the mix

Not a lot of hope for the rest of the 21st Century, tbh.

------
known
If you believe in Secular India protest/oppose CAA/CAB/NRC;

Why?

Illegal immigrants are granted Indian Citizenship;

But Legal immigrants from Muslim community are denied Indian Citizenship;

[http://archive.vn/lhvHH](http://archive.vn/lhvHH)

~~~
cmonnow
There is a difference between positive discrimination (affirmative action) and
negative discrimination (ill-treatment)

If you are new to this issue, and want to understand the CAA/CAB in simple
words -
[https://old.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/comments/e9qhvb/cab_in_...](https://old.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/comments/e9qhvb/cab_in_simple_words/)

------
FpUser
This is disgusting and I feel it is a crime. Freedom is of the most precious
things living humans have. So maybe progressive part of the world will wake
the f.. up and apply some pressure.

~~~
yumraj
Freedom in their own country, not in someone else's country.

This is for illegal immigrants.

No country in the world blindly accepts illegal immigrants.

~~~
pavish
Then why would the ruling party express dismay over hindus who were termed as
illegal immigrants. They made the process easier, basically providing
immediate citizenship for hindus and other minorities, excluding muslims. This
is downright unethical and should be regarded as a crime.

~~~
yumraj
Because India is providing refuge to Hindus and other minorities who are being
persecuted in neighboring Islamic nations.

In Pakistan Hindu teenagers are regularly abducted, converted to Islam and
married away.

India is giving refuge to these people.

Muslims are not similarly persecuted in Islamic nations.

~~~
smt1
> Muslims are not similarly persecuted in Islamic nations.

That's a gross generalization. See for example, the Ahmadis in Pakistan. Or
more generally, the whole Sunni vs Shia split. India is supposed to be a
secular country.

Anyways, most of the recent rukkus is in Assam and northeastern India. Most of
the people fleeing Bangladesh aren't doing so because of religious
persecution; that country doesn't have nearly as stringent islamic laws like
Pakistan does. The official platform of the ruling party in Bangladesh, which
has 300+ out of 350 seats currently in parliament, promotes secularism as one
of four main tenants. There has been communal violence there, just like in
India, but it is no Pakistan.

Hindus and Muslims alike leave Bangladesh for various reasons, but in the last
four decades, it's mostly because of economic and ecological issues.

Meanwhile, in Assam, there has been more than a century of Assamese vs Bengali
(both hindus and muslims, both from India and Bangladesh like) vs other
tribal/ethnic groups. This has resulted in several partitions of Bengal (which
also caused economic decline, which also caused more refugees), and several
carve outs of Assam into a bunch of other states due to many insurgencies.

~~~
yumraj
Personally I think Ahmadis, who Pakistan doesn't consider Muslims, should be
given refuge in India.

If Pakistanis persecute Ahmadis, who are Muslims, we from outside cannot even
imagine the day to day life of Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, Buddhists and others
in Pakistan.

~~~
wizzwizz4
In Tudor England, there were times when Protestants / Catholics were
persecuted more than, say, Jews. I know very little about contemporary
politics, but that conclusion doesn't necessarily follow.

~~~
smt1
Yup. Historically, because of a long tradition of practices such as jizya,
historically (now it varies from country to country) there tended to be much
more tolerance of "lateral" religions such as Christianity and Judaism in
muslim lands than other sects of Islam, which were considered dangerous
heresys. South Asia was kind of unique because there was often muslim
sultanate leaders over very large non-muslim populations, and that forced a
sort of realpolitik tolerance.

~~~
yumraj
> that forced a sort of realpolitik tolerance

Jizya tax was imposed in large parts of India on non-Muslim populations[0].
Not sure how you can call it tolerance?

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya#India](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya#India)

~~~
wizzwizz4
Increased taxation (and, yes, even slavery) is sort of tolerance when compared
to war and genocide. If you can enslave somebody as a punishment, you're
treating them as free otherwise – treating them as a person by default.

In other times and in other parts of the world, not even that has been the
case.

------
known
Indian Judiciary is in pathetic state; 75% rapists are acquitted and 40
million cases are pending in Courts and 80% Judges in India are Brahmin;

[http://archive.vn/qdQL3](http://archive.vn/qdQL3)
[https://archive.vn/TIy5h](https://archive.vn/TIy5h)
[http://ncrb.gov.in](http://ncrb.gov.in)
[https://archive.md/u0PDB](https://archive.md/u0PDB)
[https://archive.vn/KThMP](https://archive.vn/KThMP)

------
kiwifan
This is horrible treatment and will ruin the lives of millions. How can we not
learn from mistakes in our past and grow as a global community

------
known
Endorsing Citizenship Bill will eventually trickle down to separate countries
for Muslim/Sikh/Christian/Parsi/Buddhist/Jain/SC/ST Communities in India aka
[http://archive.vn/tUrIv](http://archive.vn/tUrIv)

------
opSecularIndia
Someone needs to tell anonymous somewhere to help and join India's youth
against a fascist government. This is the final straw. India's ban on internet
is straight up challenging the Democratic pillars

------
hprotagonist
_The enlightenment driven away,

The habit-forming pain,

Mismanagement and grief:

We must suffer them all again._

------
known
I suspect Indian PM Narendra Modi 'hates' India;
[https://archive.vn/WHifO](https://archive.vn/WHifO)

------
casouniquo
This is bad and I fear that the next thing they are going to do is remove
socialist and secular from Preamble which was added in the 42nd amendment in
1976

~~~
yumraj
Secular should never have been there anyway.

India was partitioned on the basis of religion, so how did we end up with one
(now two) Islamic countries and one secular. Regardless how you look at it,
Hindus got the short end of the stick.

~~~
psankar
What absolute non-sense! There is no such religion called Hinduism. An average
Hindu Punjabi has more in common with an average Muslim Pakistani (Language,
Food, Music, etc.) than a Hindu Tamilian. But the Punjabi/Rajasthani and
Tamilian or both clubbed into a single Hindu religion.

A Tamilian sacrifices Goat to his God. But this is not accepted by the
Brahminic Hinduism as a way of worship in their temples. But all of these are
merged into a false identity of "Hindu".

Who is a hindu according to Indian law ? One who is not Muslim or Christian or
Jain. Because there is nothing else that commonly unites them. Hindu is a
western term for the land beyond Indus and it is not a religion for all these
years (until the politicians decided to use it to suit their purposes).
Saivam, Vaishnavism, etc. were the original religions of this land. Not this
abomination called Hindutva.

~~~
yumraj
Name may be modern, but Hinduism refers to Sanatan Dharm that is indigenous to
India.

Let's not confuse religion with culture. By the above logic:

An average Pakistani has more in common with Hindu/Sikh Punjabi. A Bangladeshi
had more in common with Hindu Bengali. Indonesian Muslims have more in common
with Malay. Central Asians with watch other than Arabs, Africans with each
other. Yet, there is singular Islam. Same goes for every other religion.

~~~
psankar
> Name may be modern, but Hinduism refers to Sanatan Dharm that is indigenous
> to India.

Absolutely not. Tamil Sithar songs, Kannada Lingayata principles all oppose
caste systems and make fun of vedic practices. Sanatan Dharm is all about
discriminating people based on birth/caste.

------
dessant
It's rare to see such rabid government propaganda on HN, like some of the
posts in this thread. The activity in this thread is comparable to pro-
government posts seen on threads about Chinese internment camps and the Social
Credit System.

There are plenty of disgusting comments to peruse here, though I'd like to
highlight this one:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21823490](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21823490)

> I don't really understand where the genocide is coming from. At the worst
> you will be deported back to your homeland. If your homeland is genociding
> you it's not India's problem.

I'm really hoping that people who express such sickening views will be banned
from HN.

~~~
owaislone
Every time there is a thread about the Indian government doing something
questionable, there are people here ready to justify it and defend the
government.

~~~
iamshs
I called out these pro-government accounts pretty heavily in a thread sometime
back and my comments got flagged on basis of not providing references and
calling their comments as propaganda. How much of references can you provide
when you know the person is just sending you on a wild goose chase. And the
comments are propaganda, repeating governmental lies.

One of the comment declared openly, "I am a Hindu, I am a Nationalist, hence I
am a Hindu nationalist" \- which is a straight lift-off of Indian PM Modi's
interview [1]. BTW Modi conducted 2002 Gujarat massacre and got banned from
entering US until he became Indian PM.

Read the Reuters interview from 2013 [1], and with remarkable clarity he lays
down his religious fundamentalism on table. Now that he runs India, he is
acting on these designs quite openly.

[1] [http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2013/07/12/interview-with-
bjp...](http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2013/07/12/interview-with-bjp-leader-
narendra-modi/)

~~~
yorwba
HN doesn't prohibit people from being wrong or unquestioningly repeating
government propaganda so long as they don't exclusively use HN for ideological
battle and respect the other rules.

So if you want an Xist to get banned, you don't need to provide references
that they support X, but that they do so in a way that is against the rules
(such as exclusively posting about X). Also, you shouldn't do that in the
comments but by emailing hn@ycombinator.com with the relevant facts, so that
the mods can decide on the correct action to take without publicly putting
anyone on the spot.

~~~
iamshs
I mailed dang and he didn't agree with me and I respect that, since I agree
with his assertion that I was being aggressive which fueled ideological battle
even more.

Some of the accounts that I called out are again in here repeating same
governmental propaganda. Let's see if something can be done about them.

~~~
thewhitetulip
And you'll notice that they're new accounts. Probably the same person creating
multiple accounts

Best course of action is destroy them ideologically and let other sane people
downvote them to hell

------
quantummkv
> For a government which has attained a historical majority for the second
> time, just imagine the impact they can have if they focussed this energy on
> improving economic and human-life indicators instead.

The government in its election pitch made this one of the major points that
they would execute if they came to power. So please don't be under the
assumption that the people that voted don't want this to be implemented.

Think of it as technical debt in the codebase. It has to be addressed before
you can execute a growth strategy on your product or it will come to haunt you
later.

~~~
vijaybritto
Genocide is not like technical debt!!

~~~
enugu
Exactly, so it is a good thing that Hindus who have emigrated from an actual
genocide(not a speculation) with scant notice in major media both in India and
abroad, are finally getting a chance at citizenship

Given the opposition, the CAA law might be struck down. The absurdity of much
of this thread is that measures which help active victims of genocide are
being opposed.

The book Blood Telegram, by Gary Bass about a state department memo, documents
one aspect of how this genocide was buried.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blood_Telegram:_Nixon,_Kis...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blood_Telegram:_Nixon,_Kissinger,_and_a_Forgotten_Genocide)

~~~
cafard
Weren't those primarily Muslims who were killed in the then East Pakistan?
Anyway, that's who the state was was set up for.

~~~
enugu
Bengalis were attacked, but Hindus were specifically singled out by the
Pakistan Army. Just look at the sources.

------
reactspa
1\. Nobody was _stripped_ of citizenship. They couldn't prove they had it in
the first place.

2\. You won't learn this from the media's narrative about it, but: the reason
why most protestors are protesting the Citizenship Amendment is not because
muslim refugees (from Pak., Bangla. and Afghan.) are excluded, but because
_everyone else_ (non-muslim refugees [i.e. persecuted religious minorities
from these officially "Islamic states"]) is now automatically granted Indian
citizenship. Protestors are worried about loss of jobs and demographic
replacement by these new citizens. So, most protestors are not protesting
_muslim exclusion_ , they're protesting _anyone 's inclusion_.

~~~
Scipio_Afri
This seems like a really misinformed comment.

Why would the protests be occurring most strongly in predominately Muslim
areas? This is backed up by numerous international media reports, including
comments from people who are protesting.

"NEW DELHI—Protests against a new citizenship law favoring non-Muslim
immigrants erupted in violence in a Muslim-dominated part of the Indian
capital where communal tensions have flared in the past, as the prime minister
appealed for calm.

“People are opposing this law because it discriminates against the Muslims,”
said Chaudhary Mateen Ahmad, a former Congress party legislator in the Delhi
Assembly from Seelampur, the northeastern Delhi area where protest violence
broke out on Tuesday afternoon. “They are saying the law should treat everyone
equally; there should be no discrimination.”

The new law eases the path to citizenship for individuals from persecuted
religious groups from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan, but only if they
aren’t Muslim. That distinction has set off alarm in India’s 200-million
strong Muslim community, who say the law, along with a separate national
registry, could be used to disenfranchise many Muslims. The law has also
alarmed Indians who view its singling out one religious group as betraying the
country’s secular tradition of protecting all religious groups.

The protests on Tuesday followed weekend demonstrations by students and local
residents near the Jamia Millia Islamia University in New Delhi, in which
police chased protesters into the campus, fired tear gas and beat them with
batons, injuring several students. Students in several Indian cities have been
holding protests in support of the Jamia students."

[https://www.wsj.com/articles/india-protests-against-new-
law-...](https://www.wsj.com/articles/india-protests-against-new-law-spread-
to-muslim-area-of-capital-11576596978)

~~~
sbmthakur
You forgot one important detail. All those three countries have Islam as their
state religion and Muslims are unlikely to be persecuted there on religious
grounds.

And while Police action on Jamia students is condemnable, it must be noted
that protestors did get violent and the Police had to resort to strong
measures as a response.

~~~
wtmt
_> All those three countries have Islam as their state religion and Muslims
are unlikely to be persecuted there on religious grounds._

This is not true at all. There are minority sects within Islam, depending on
the country. The followers of those do get persecuted on religious grounds
(look up Shias, Ahmediyas, etc.) by the majority.

~~~
sbmthakur
Yes, they are persecuted on sectarian grounds. But that doesn't change the
fact that these countries have a particular state religion.

------
routerhash
This is not a case of `stripped of citizenship`. India just built detention
camps for illegal immigrants in the country. I think every country in the
world does this to illegal immigrants (and later deported). The protests that
are happening in the eastern part of India is against giving citizenship to
illegal immigrants.

~~~
mlnj
Yes, the `stripped of citizenship` parts come in later with the NRC (National
Register of Citizens).

[https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/et-explains/is-
a-p...](https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/et-explains/is-a-pan-india-
nrc-possible-the-lesson-from-assam/articleshow/72454225.cms)

Anyone who is not able to prove their citizenship will naturally be declared
illegal immigrant and then have an option to apply for citizenship depending
on their religion. This applies to anyone who IS NOT a Muslim.

Millions of poor and illiterate people in India have no documentation proving
their citizenship, let alone documents going back decades proving that their
ancestors were Indians. We all know how the route of detention camps go when
the number of detainees goes up to millions.

~~~
routerhash
With NCR everyone will have to prove citizenship(probably, govt hasn't given
any clarification regarding this) regardless of the religion. CAB bill doesn't
immediately give citizenship to non Muslims in India. It specifically states
that its for people from those three countries. The people who is living in
India who is not from these countries regardless of religion will be declared
illegal immigrant(again, not clarified)

~~~
gagorder
> With NCR everyone will have to prove citizenship Why?

Why do I need to prove my citizenship at the whim and fancy of government.
What is the purpose of this exercise? This exercise in a small state of Assam
cost government coffers around 2000 crores. Add to this the cost citizens had
to bear in gathering documentary proofs of their forefathers from land revenue
offices, the affidavits, court and legal fees, the time and energy spent and
the fear of being thrown into a detention centre - a no mans land.

Is this all normal?

~~~
mlnj
This is all a ploy to gather power at the Center and the government's reaction
to the protests has been testimony to that. Shutting down the Internet,
jailing opposition leaders, declaring college students as terrorists and
accusing them of sedition for protesting the government has been a constant
theme for the last 2 terms for the Center. A Police State is the vision for
this current government.

------
nilsocket
For all the messy comments against Indian government, To make things clear.

CAB (Citizenship Amendment Bill) made for illegal migrants from Pakistan,
Afghanistan, Bangladesh (Three Islamic countries).

Who is an illegal migrant: Anybody who came to India after 1971 from these
countries.

To whom does this rule apply: Illegal migrants who entered India till 2014.

What does it say: If one came to India before 2014 and stayed in India for
certain years, they can become India citizens.

How many years: For Hindu, Sikh, Christian, Jain, Buddhist and Parsi 5years.
For Muslims 11years.

Why segregation based on religion? Because of persecution of minorities in
Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan. Pakistan, Non-Muslim population fell from
23% to 3%. Bangladesh, Non-Muslim population fell from 22% to 8%. Afghanistan,
I don't know. Because, religious minorities from these three countries don't
have any other place to go except India.

NRC (National Register for Citizens) is aimed at moving illegal immigrants to
detention camps or they are free to leave to there actual country. During NRC
one(Everybody in India) needs to prove there citizenship.

This Bill is applicable only for illegal immigrants(It has got nothing to do
with Indian Citizens), If somebody wants to come to India legally, they can
come.

~~~
dragonsh
Why you try to repeat the Indian government propaganda. Just make one
correction first Bangladesh is a secular nation like India with Muslim
majority. This is the wisdom and adherence to secularism of India’s
administration during that time (not sure but it was Indira Gandhi at that
time, who insisted that Bangladesh should be a secular country like India,
after it was freed by Indian military). This was overturned by ordinances for
a short while but than those ordinances were termed illegal by Sheikh Hasina.
So before claiming about Bangladesh as Islamic country get your facts correct,
as it stands for more than a decade it’s a secular country.

A persecuted person is persecuted irrespective of religion. CAA could have
made it clear keeping India’s secular fabric intact, but it didn’t . As the
current administration is bent upon making India a religious dictatorship,
this is used as backdoor for that idea. NRC+CAA combined is like a rocket and
a war head, making it a missile to launch an all out attack to weed out
Muslims from India. So the intentions were nefarious with this act.

This has been declared repeatedly by current Indian government many times that
they will conduct NRC nationwide, so the fears of Muslims are genuine. May be
it will be nice if you read the bill yourself and see if they used the term
Muslim anywhere in it.

~~~
cmonnow
> Bangladesh is a secular nation like India with Muslim majority.

"Bangladesh Constitution establishes Islam as the state religion" \-
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Banglad...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Bangladesh#Legal_and_policy_framework)

Persecution of religious Minorities in Bangladesh -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Banglad...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Bangladesh#Persecution)

~~~
dragonsh
Please don’t be a Wikipedia warrior, read the whole article and related links
as well, get the information correct first. Ziaur Rehman tried to change
secularism as fundamental tenet of constitution in Bangladesh, which is
restored by Bangladesh’s Supreme Court [1].

Hope India’s Supreme Court can stand up to this current government’s religious
dictatorship and uphold India’s secularism. At present they are postponing it
until Jan 22, let’s see.

[1] [https://zeenews.india.com/news/south-asia/bangladeshs-
court-...](https://zeenews.india.com/news/south-asia/bangladeshs-court-
restores-secularism-in-constitution_644258.html)

------
timbuck2
Pre-independence India was divided by political islamists believing Two-Nation
theory (that Muslims cannot live with other religions). After bloody partition
that killed millions of Hindus, and again the two genocides in Kashmir and
Bangladesh - illegals from both countries continue to pour into India. We
don't need lectures from other countries on how to handle our problems.

~~~
ninni
Upholding secular values after such a bloody partition is one of the most
civilised things our country has ever done. Bharat ka hi zuban hai ye
"lectures". Forgetting that is just tragic. Work on empathy.

------
imvetri
ok. everything US does, India does it too. Fashion - yay yay, lets buy that
cloth. Entertainment - did you watch that movie, it got released last friday.
Education - Ha ha. lets both go down that road. India survives because in the
past ancestors were educated and righteous. Gave Indians good brain. Why? may
be meditation? its fine. leave that for now. Medical/pharma - We have lots of
lab rats in one country, and we have regulations control board in other
country. Shake hands. Business - Goes hand/ under the table. Corruption - We
share same mind set.

Money is a scam. Anything that it touches, makes a cancer out of it.

------
yumraj
To those who are questioning why, this is why (reports from Pakistan's most
reputed news paper)

[https://www.google.com/search?q=Hindu+girl+converted+site%3A...](https://www.google.com/search?q=Hindu+girl+converted+site%3Adawn.com&oq=Hindu+girl+converted+site%3Adawn.com)

Or feel free to search "Hindu girl converted site:dawn.com"

~~~
thewhitetulip
You can also Google how Minority Muslims are declared "Non Muslim"

~~~
yumraj
And you can refer to my comment below where I said that Ahmadis should be
included in my opinion.

~~~
thewhitetulip
The fact that they're not included shows the bias that the government had.

It's obvious

~~~
yumraj
We don't even know how many Ahmadis are even coming to India, but we do know
there are millions of Hindus, Sikhs, Christians and other minorities.

Moreover, Hindu girls are being abducted and being force converted and married
away. I have not seen any similar news related to Ahmadis.

So, this law is about helping those who need to be helped en masse, Ahmadi
cases can be dealt with on a case by case basis under existing laws.

------
jagannathtech
People have absolutely no idea what is actually going on and the outrage
fuelled (dishonest) media is capitalising on it.

Poor country like India cannot afford to take in hordes of illegal migrants
from its neighbours.

BJP is just fulfilling its poll promises clearly described in its election
manifesto of both 2014 and 2019.

~~~
aerodog
Oh they're just fulfilling their promises. That makes it all ok.

~~~
mlnj
And the sad part is that this is what they had promised. This hate and divide
is what the BJP has preached and yet the people voted for them even for a
second term. In some ways people are getting what they voted for.

