
The Weird World of Vegan YouTube Stars - elorant
https://www.thedailybeast.com/vegan-youtube-is-imploding-as-stars-like-rawvana-bonny-rebecca-and-stella-rae-change-diets?ref=home?ref=home
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reizorc
I've watched many of these videos. These people have put their bodies through
hell: 25 day water fasts, eating only fruit for months, high carb/low fat
vegan, raw vegan, 1200 calories a day, urine therapy!? then they wonder why
they get gut and other issues.

Usually, they then ignore medical advice, especially when it involves taking
antibiotics, and try to cure themselves through wishful thinking and more
diet. After that predictably fails they are then magically cured of all ills 8
hours after consuming eggs and fish.

They're HAVE got some serious issues and it's not a plant based diet.

~~~
Insanity
I watched rawvana her videos occasionally for some recipe ideas.

My wife and I are not vegan, but vegetarian. It sounds like a bad idea to
strictly follow a YouTuber without checking in with a nutriologist or doctor
when you are full vegan though.

I would still watch her videos though even after this drama. She has some
tasty recipes :)

~~~
sf_rob
MDs get very little instruction on nutrition FWIW, although they would be
helpful in terms of longitudinal monitoring.

~~~
Insanity
But perhaps they can refer you to the right person :) In any case, this might
depend on the country as well. Where I'm from (Belgium) doctors have been
helpful regarding nutrition as well. YMMV though

~~~
sf_rob
Ah yes, I'm showing my US bias :). I was just surprised to learn this from a
(US) doctor friend!

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dalbasal
Keep your identity small

[http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html)

On a side note, I've always wondered why "shellfish vegan" isn't a thing. They
don't have brains or central nervous systems, but they do have the nutritional
components of animal products.

It's the kind of conclusion philosophers reach, but doesn't seem to resonate
with people.

~~~
jandrese
If that's your criteria then unfertilized eggs would be fine too. Veganism
draws the line much higher.

~~~
dalbasal
Unfertilised eggs come from chickens. Vegans I've spoken to tend to object to
farming.

~~~
hjek
I eat vegan food, but I also recognise that there's a distinction between
someone keeping rescued chickens in a back garden, and keeping them in tiny
cages or on the floor giant barns with no light in such crammed conditions
that they start cannibalising each other (which are the conditions of about
90% of egg laying hens in the UK).

Even though I wouldn't eat their eggs, I can't really see the problem with
having chicken around if they don't suffer. For people who eat vegan for
ethical reasons, my impression is that _suffering_ is the main concern.

~~~
jandrese
Usually they consider stealing the eggs from the chickens to be incompatible
with veganism as well, even if the chickens are free range.

~~~
Pharmakon
Why? If they’re not fertilized eggs then the other option is letting them rot
(or watch as mama chicken eats them, because contrary to our weird fantasies
about the nature of nature, it is _rough_ out there). Besides, it’s not theft,
it’s a trade for food, security, and lodging.

~~~
jandrese
> Besides, it’s not theft, it’s a trade for food, security, and lodging.

That sort of logic gets you back to farming animals for meat though. We're
giving them a relatively cushy life compared to wild animals (at least in some
cases), but cutting it short. It's easier to maintain the moral high ground if
you simply cut out all animal products period.

~~~
Pharmakon
So... eggs and honey are slippery slopes. Really. And vegans wonder why the
public at large won’t engage with them?

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TazeTSchnitzel
The problem with social media is you can be a complete quack and yet have as
much of a platform as someone who applies rigorous standards. Also, YouTube
will automatically recommend and show you a steady stream of similar quackery
and echo chamber opinions. It's wonderful for snake oil salesmen, including
the political kind.

~~~
lotsofpulp
Print news and TV have the same problem. Without transparency, the source
data, repeated trials, there is always an opportunity to scam.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
To a degree. They generally have at least _some_ standards, and are also
subject to regulation.

~~~
shortoncash
I don't think the mass media is any better. I remember the hard pushes for
things like low fat diets, ignoring the dangers of sugar and sugary drinks,
etc. I don't recall the pre-internet magazine covers being any better or worse
than the sorts of things Youtubers push today.

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mns
This title sounds like one of those things you get from a "Random Vice story
generator" pages.

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hashberry
> Commenters have called her “disgusting,” a “fraud” and a “hypocrite,” and
> others have told her to kill herself ... This kind of online abuse is
> typical for ex-vegan influencers.

The irony of vegan ethics against causing harm and pain to animals, except
when it comes to humans.

~~~
hjek
It is both sad and ironic, and it's only fair to call out this abuse for what
it is.

I'd just like to point out that this isn't something that applies to all
vegans as there are some who try to communicate with less shaming and more
empathy.

Check out Melanie Joy[0] if you're interested.

[0]:
[https://invidio.us/watch?v=Yo7b_ULdF38](https://invidio.us/watch?v=Yo7b_ULdF38)

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colbyh
From the early/mid 90s all the way into the early aughts there was a
subculture in punk and hardcore dedicated to veganism and straight edge. The
majority of them acted exactly like this and I can only imagine how insane
things would have been with YouTube available at the time.

People wrote obituaries for other people's edge when that person started doing
drugs (often at 21, almost always before 30). There was even particularly
militant scenes in certain parts of the country that would get violent if you
were smoking or wearing a leather jacket to certain shows.

Some really, really good music got made around it all though

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tomatotomato37
I don't really care for the pros and cons of veganism or their youtube
channels or whatever, but what kind of friend uploads a video that they know
will tank their buddy's youtube career?

~~~
Insanity
Yeah that is quite strange :s

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teilo
This is what happens when you give already-unhinged people (I can't help but
wonder whether their diet is to blame) a monetary incentive to tear people
down who have reached the quite rational decision that veganism is slowly
killing them.

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hjek
> In an illustrative comment on Tim Shieff’s video about quitting veganism,
> one viewer wrote, “Oh, well... this explains why you're looking so wasted,
> old & bloated in your recent videos. That’s so sad.”

Those abusers would be better off if they dug a bit into Melanie Joy's talks
about _vegan communication_ [0]. If we call out and shame everyone who are not
perfect for being _hypocritical_ , they'll just end up not caring at all.

[0]:
[https://invidio.us/watch?v=Yo7b_ULdF38](https://invidio.us/watch?v=Yo7b_ULdF38)

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deaps
The only vegan channel I follow is a cyclist that goes by the name of "The
Vegan Cyclist" \- and I mean there's _some_ vegan stuff thrown in, but it's
more about cycling and training than veganism.

There is a guy at my work who tried to become vegan when he started dating his
current wife. I want to say that lasted about six months.

I think what did him in was when he tried a coworker's home-made beef jerky
one day - he must have felt pretty good in the immediately-following days.
He's been eating meat ever since.

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benmmurphy
'eating a diet of almost entirely carbohydrates—including up to 50 bananas a
day. ' -> i was under the impression consuming this much potassium would
poison you.

~~~
jsty
The BBC quotes it at around 400 per day [0] to build up fatal levels of
potassium in a healthy individual.

[0]
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34225517](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34225517)

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kzrdude
I'm impressed by those that explain why they switched, for health reasons.

~~~
code_duck
I was a vegetarian for a long time. It started with health concerns and
morphed to ethical concerns. I noticed that a lot of people are hostile when
you say you are doing it for ethical reasons (e.g. for animal welfare or
environmentalism), but are satisfied with the idea that you're doing it for
your own health.

~~~
hjek
> I noticed that a lot of people are hostile when you say you are doing it for
> ethical reasons (e.g. for animal welfare or environmentalism), but are
> satisfied with the idea that you're doing it for your own health.

When you start talking about ethics, it requires other people to consider pain
and suffering they may be complicit in, and that will of course make people
defensive. If it's just some odd diet, then you're just talking about your own
preferences, which are less likely to upset anyone.

Not saying you shouldn't talk about ethics, but of course people are more
touchy about that.

~~~
jshaqaw
I desperately try not to talk about my vegetarianism with others as it is a
personal matter. It’s amazing how many people who would never social question
another person’s beliefs in say religion feel free to jump in and aggressively
debate my dietary choices. “Aren’t plants alive too, etc...”. Prostletyzing
vegetarians are I’m sure annoying but on my side I would love the basic
respect that other personal ethical choices are given to mind my own business.

