
Standing up for what's right - smaili
https://facebook.com/traviskal/posts/1331814113506421
======
djsumdog
This is really shitty. Regardless of what you think of the immigration issue,
blocking legal residents from entering the US is absolutely terrible. It's a
contract violation from the US government. This order essentially says America
doesn't care you're a full legal resident, because you hold a citizenship from
this limited subset of countries (many of which we're bombing), you can't come
back.

(America is bombing seven countries by the way, in case anyone forgot. Our
last president is the first in history to have the US in armed conflict for
every day of his presidency. He will not be the last.)

What I also hate is that Uber tries to play the PR game and show themselves as
the great guys here. Forget that they pay their drivers peanuts, that drivers
have to drive up to 30% more now to make the same wages as just a few years
ago, and that many are calling Uber to unionise.

I hate they way everyone is just using people to further their message and
forgetting that these are people.

~~~
refurb
_blocking legal residents from entering the US is absolutely terrible._

Why? It happens all the time, and shockingly, even before Trump got into
office.

A green card does not guarantee you entry into the US. I was informed of this
_many times_ when I entered using one. Leave the US for more than 6 months?
You can be turned back (and your permanent resident status canceled). Among
other reasons.

~~~
CydeWeys
The six month rule was already known about ahead of time, and thus people can
abide by the rules. It's essentially part of the contract. This new rule is a
violation of the existing contract.

It's the difference between being towed because you parked in a fire lane
(that's your fault), and for being towed when someone came up after you
parked, painted in a fire lane, and then towed you (not your fault).

~~~
jacquesm
> It's the difference between being towed because you parked in a fire lane
> (that's your fault), and for being towed when someone came up after you
> parked, painted in a fire lane, and then towed you (not your fault).

I've actually had this with a handicapped parking spot that was created while
my car was _in the spot_ and got fined immediately after they finished putting
the post up.

I tried getting it reversed but not dice. Very frustrating.

~~~
tedmiston
Just curious, what city? And did you try to appeal? That seems crazy.

~~~
jacquesm
> Just curious, what city?

IJmuiden, NL.

> And did you try to appeal?

Yes, I did.

> That seems crazy.

It is crazy. Especially since the RDW (local equivalent of the DMV) has my
address on file and I lived right across the street. All they had to do was
ring the bell and ask me to move my car. Hefty fine too, 140 guilders at the
time (70 Euros or so today).

~~~
danieltillett
What happened with the appeal? I know Dutch law is not the same as common law,
but it would seem that this would be something that could be overturned higher
up the chain.

~~~
jacquesm
It might have but the problem is that you're going to be throwing good money
after bad and you might _still_ end up paying. Pick your battles. After
getting a lawyer give me a quote I decided that maybe an appeal is not the
best use of my resources. FWIW he thought it could have been won.

~~~
danieltillett
I understand. I took a parking ticket to appeal myself and it was financially
a huge lose (I won the case). I justified going forward only as a self-
education experience. I did learn a lot so maybe it was worth it - this is
what I tell myself anyway :)

------
tabeth
Firstly, I'd like to point out that Travis' post was spot on (I abhor Trump's
policies, so the more big names speaking out against him, the better).

However, is Travis really the best messenger? Is this just glorified PR or
does he actually care? I can't read his mind, so we can only judge from his
actions. Let's see what he's done to "stand up for what's right" in regards to
his own organization (this isn't exhaustive, at all):

\- Uber employees order fake rides to sink competitor [1]

\- Blaming the media for suggesting Uber is liable [2]

\- Blind passengers denied rides [3]

\- Uber executives looking into critics' personal lives [4]

\----

You may think those things are irrelevant, but one should practice what they
preach, especially when they have a post titled: "Standing up for what's
right." My examples, by the way, only scratch the surface to Uber's own shady
practices.

[1] [http://valleywag.gawker.com/ubers-dirty-trick-campaign-
again...](http://valleywag.gawker.com/ubers-dirty-trick-campaign-against-nyc-
competition-cam-1508280668)

[2] [https://pando.com/2014/02/27/we-call-that-boob-er-the-
four-m...](https://pando.com/2014/02/27/we-call-that-boob-er-the-four-most-
awful-things-travis-kalanick-said-in-his-gq-profile/)

[3] [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-
mix/wp/2014/09/1...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-
mix/wp/2014/09/10/uber-sued-for-allegedly-refusing-rides-to-the-blind-and-
putting-a-dog-in-the-trunk/)

[4] [http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/uber-executive-suggests-
dig...](http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/uber-executive-suggests-digging-up-
dirt-on-journalists#.agOZK3GPR)

~~~
wfo
So what? One good thing that's come from the Trump presidency is unity. Me and
my more conservative colleagues and friends were always cordial and have had
healthy debates but we are now in vehement agreement -- against Trump.

I'll give you that Travis is a total scumbag. Maybe he is. Maybe he doesn't
care about this issue. I don't care. He's right this time, about this issue,
and when we're talking about it, that's good enough for me. Trump's policies
will be devastating and he will attempt to loot, pillage, and destroy every
part of the country. It will take our country decades to recover from the
damage he does, if it ever recovers. If the coalition that forms up against
him is slightly different for every issue and creates some unlikely
bedfellows, well so be it. We need all the help we can get. The office of the
president is unbelievably powerful -- something some of us have been very
concerned about since GWB and on through Obama.

In fact anti-Trump republicans/businessmen/'generally all around bad guys'
mean a whole lot more right now than the guaranteed liberal coalition against
him.

~~~
tptacek
You're not the only person I've heard say that recently. The question is: can
we build organizational momentum to keep this up for the long haul, and can we
make it through however long a Trump/Bannon administration will be without
grave harm to the country?

I'm hopeful, but we have to do more than appreciate unity and engagement: we
have to build on it, and reinforce it.

So as not to repeat myself:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13510304](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13510304)

------
employee8000
As an Uber employee, I'm morbidly curious as to how HN will spin this into
something negative. :)

For the record, I'm super proud of working at Uber because those on the
outside never see the things we do for our drivers. This is a big one and I'm
really proud. You just don't see this on the news that often because who
knows.

I've said this before but the Uber of the last 2 years is not the same Uber
from 2013/2014\. As a company it has grown up and matured and realizes the
responsibilities it has to its drivers, riders and cities.

~~~
maxerickson
What's the average hourly earnings of a busy driver after they pay their
expenses (vehicle amortization, insurance, fuel, maintenance, etc.)?

~~~
inverse_pi
What do you expect Uber/Lyft to do differently? Minimum wage for drivers? We
have capitalism. If you think the drivers don't get a lot of money, why don't
all of them quit after the first paycheck? It's capitalism, no one forces
anyone to do anything. People are free to do what's best for them. Many of
these drivers would be unemployed if not for Uber/Lyft. I'm not saying they're
well compensated, I'm saying there must be a reason why they're still doing
what they're doing.

~~~
maxerickson
I don't particularly expect Uber to do anything different. I do expect someone
praising how Uber treats their drivers to be able to answer the question (if
they don't know how much a driver in a busy city takes home per hour they have
no useful idea how Uber treats drivers).

~~~
cderwin
I don't personally know anything about Uber, but I would be very surprised if
it wasn't against company policy to provide such a figure (if it's even
internally available) given the divisive and intense political climate that
Uber operates in.

~~~
maxerickson
Sure, but an Uber policy against disclosing such information doesn't make the
question unfair to ask.

------
marcell
This may come off as cynical but I think Travis, and similar SV figures like
Elon Musk and Sam Altman are giving Donald Trump too much credit.

He is a 70 year old man who just won the presidency with no prior political
experience, spewing angry divisive comments against all sorts of weak minority
groups. He has a massive following who cheers his divisive comments against
foreigners and and against the press.

Yet in spite of this, some commentators (see Travis) think that "if only" he
gets some good advice, everything will be just fine. This is a bias of smart,
reasonable people: they assume others are the same. They are treating it as a
reasonable person who is just misguided.

In fact, the opposite is true. Trump has shown that his values are not aligned
with traditional free democracy as we've known it in America. Giving him some
good advice or trying to talk reason is futile, and moreover will result in
endorsement by association.

~~~
scott_karana
What exactly do you suggest instead, then? :/

~~~
mildbow
Like all movements, the act that makes the most difference is the one that
takes most courage. A willingness to _do_ , a willingness to lead, not just
wait for/on a leader.

Mass rallies/sit-ins (non-violent ones) is the only real way the people of the
United States of America can let their government know how they feel.

Call me a cynic, but calling your senator wont help. Trump has shown that he
moves much faster than government is wont to do.

------
Fr0styMatt88
How is Trump seemingly doing so much, so quickly?

Looking in from the outside, it seems like all the political process that
Obama had to go through just isn't applicable?

The example I always comforted myself with w.r.t to Trump was Obama trying to
get the gun laws changed - even the POTUS couldn't do it. So then he mustn't
have unlimited power. So what's going on here?

I'm really curious how executive orders work in the US. Are they just the
first step in a process, or do they override any democratic process? The
latter seems to be what all the reporting is implying, but I don't know if
that's hyperbole or true.

~~~
orblivion
As others have said, the executive is in charge of applying laws. So if you
take the example of the ACA, Trump can't just overturn it. But, he can
instruct the relevant departments to half-ass their enforcement of it.

That said, I feel the same way. I'm not an Obama supporter, but I gotta wonder
why he wasn't even more aggressive than he was with the orders.

~~~
legodt
He had Congress entirely against him, that's why. The threat of everyone below
you turning on you (remember the government shutdown?) and kicking and
screaming against your actions no matter how you compromise (remember the
nightmare it was to even create the ACA?) are normally deterrent enough from
abusing executive orders. Heck, even Obama was heavily criticized for his use
of executive orders, which was pretty high compared to previous
administrations. But now that there is no internal opposition with a fully red
government, it's smooth sailing to get these things done.

~~~
orblivion
Is it a matter of retribution? If Trump issues an order that Congress didn't
like, what could they do? Their job is to create laws, not interfere with the
enforcement thereof.

~~~
dragonwriter
> If Trump issues an order that Congress didn't like, what could they do?

In terms of substantive, direct, responses (e.g., excluding retaliating
against other Presidential initiatives and appointments), major notable
options include:

(1) Expressly prohibit the things called for in the order by legislation
(overriding a veto, of necessary);

(2) Sue the administration claiming the order violates existing (statute or
Constitutional) law;

(3) Impeach and remove the President.

------
endswapper
Clear message, clear call to action, clear action with the ability to leverage
what he is advocating while acknowledging and respecting opposing
perspectives.

This had substance and was clear and articulate. It's exactly what Sam's Time
to Take a Stand post is missing.

------
mnglkhn2
There multiple ways somebody can get a green card. I suspect that the majority
of those w. green cards and citizenship from the seven countries that were
banned have obtained these green cards by way of refugee status.

I have nothing against helping refugees escape atrocities in their home
countries. If possible, good for them. The problem I see is that there is an
inherent unfairness in this process when compared to those who try to
immigrate legally, especially when using the H1B process.

A refugees obtains a green card in a matter of months if not 1 year at most.
With no particularly serious/harsh vetting. Look at what this has brought,
considering that all the past attacks (Boston, California, Florida) where done
by people that entered US by this rout.

An H1B has to usually wait if somewhere between 8-16years, sometimes more just
to get the green card. And for every step, they are scrutinized and verified
in the most intimate detail.

In my opinion this is not a fair process. And, personally, I am ok with
increasing the scrutiny on those that apply for refugee status.

~~~
djsumdog
I don't think you even remotely understand what a green card is or how
difficult they are to get. Green cards indicate legal resident status. You
must hold one for five years before even being able to apply for citizenship.

They are not H1-B visas. They aren't holiday work visas. Having a green card
means you must always file taxes even if you leave (the United States is the
only country to do this. The US is also one of two countries in the world that
tax citizens who don't live there).

The US doesn't have a "permanent resident without travel restrictions" type
visa, so it is literally the highest visa short of citizenship you can hold.

------
auternach
Anyone wondering what the "pro" argument possibly could be:
[http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444370/donald-trump-
re...](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444370/donald-trump-refugee-
executive-order-no-muslim-ban-separating-fact-hysteria).

If you actually want to leave your bubble, read both sides on every issue. If
you want to remain in your bubble, read the screaming twitter comments and
media only. Choice is yours.

Even the "pro" arguers have serious reservations in this case.

~~~
fingerprinter
The National Review? C'mon.

That's like quoting Ayn Rand and hoping to be taken seriously.

~~~
bballer
Well, did you read it?

An excerpt:

However, there are reports that the ban is being applied even to green-card
holders. This is madness. The plain language of the order doesn’t apply to
legal permanent residents of the U.S., and green-card holders have been
through round after round of vetting and security checks. The administration
should intervene, immediately, to stop misapplication. If, however, the Trump
administration continues to apply the order to legal permanent residents, it
should indeed be condemned.

And another:

First, the order temporarily halts refugee admissions for 120 days to improve
the vetting process, then caps refugee admissions at 50,000 per year.
Outrageous, right? Not so fast. Before 2016, when Obama dramatically ramped up
refugee admissions, Trump’s 50,000 stands roughly in between a typical year of
refugee admissions in George W. Bush’s two terms and a typical year in Obama’s
two terms.

------
hackuser
It's nice, but there is no statement about discrimination based on religion or
nationality, or xenophobia in general. His objections seem to result from poor
execution: If the ban were better executed so his drivers weren't as affected,
would he have any objections?

Also:

 _I agreed in early December to join President Trump’s economic advisory group
along with Elon Musk (CEO of Tesla), Mary Barra (Chairwoman /CEO of General
Motors), Indra Nooyi (Chairwoman/CEO of Pepsi), Ginni Rometty (Chairwoman/CEO
of IBM), Bob Iger (Chairman/CEO of Disney), Jack Welch (former Chairman of GE)
and a dozen other business leaders._

Kalanick and all those people lend their credibility to Trump and his
policies.

------
jmspring
Let's not forget this:

[http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/25/technology/uber-ceo-
trump/](http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/25/technology/uber-ceo-trump/)

------
gogopuppygogo
Glad to see the tech industry leaders taking a stand on these immigration
issues. Sam Altman and Travis are being very public but I'm sure many are
working the system behind the scenes and there will be more public results in
the future.

The fight has just begun. It's just a matter of time now till they to tear
apart net neutrality.

Trump might just be the wake up call the nation needed to wake up and stop
being so complacent.

~~~
edblarney
"Trump might just be the wake up call the nation needed to wake up and stop
being so complacent."

I'll bet that at least 50% of Americans support the premise of a 'temporary
ban on entry of people from areas of open conflict or that are governed by
jihadi entities'.

Point being - there are many Americans who believe that Trump _is_ the 'wake
up call'.

I think there is a lot of danger from people living inside social bubbles
making assumptions about what the 'proverbial we' should or are thinking about
what is right or wrong.

By the way - I think this exec order is a political gesture.

After 90 days, everyone who was to come to the US, will end up coming.

I believe that most entrants are fairly well vetted already, and that things
will get back to normal pretty quickly, with some minor adjustments so that
Trump can claim his order was needed and warranted.

~~~
Retra
At least 50% of anybody will answer anyway you like to a loaded question.

------
xacaxulu
Travis likes breaking any law that stands in the way of him making money and
breaking into new markets. Now that he disagrees with an Executive order (that
really means he's being deprived of a cheap source of labor), he's come out in
full PR mode. You can like or dislike Trump, but Kalanick is a hypocrite
through and through.

~~~
pfarnsworth
Lol your post doesn't even make sense. According to your own logic, he's
fighting local government laws, ie. breaking laws, and now he's fighting an
executive order that he disagrees with, so that makes him a... hypocrite? I
think you don't quite understand what that word means.

------
danols
Takes a certain type of arrogance to play the high card with the track record
and reputation that he has. He has zero credibility when it comes to standing
up for what is right.

------
redsummer
Why isn't Saudi Arabia on the list?

~~~
mattlevan
Because the list of countries was drafted by Obama's administration.

[https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1187](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1187)

~~~
mgiannopoulos
Source?

~~~
Malician
[https://mic.com/articles/166845/the-list-of-muslim-
countries...](https://mic.com/articles/166845/the-list-of-muslim-countries-
trump-wants-to-ban-was-compiled-by-the-obama-administration#.4IZpXgKyN)

This, of course, excuses the action not at all. But it does explain the choice
of countries.

(and, of course, Obama didn't tell Trump which list to pick.)

------
nemesisj
It's great to see Uber come out so publically against this travesty of a
Presidential executive order. It's a despicable act and all Americans should
be ashamed of what's happening. That said, it's interesting to see a company
that has regularly ignored the law to build their business dive into the fray.
They've also employed many of the same tactics of bullying, just like Trump.
Perhaps that's what we need? Perhaps the DNA of fighting and ignoring
regulations will come in handy...I just wish it didn't have to. The whole
thing is just sad.

~~~
edblarney
"It's a despicable act and all Americans should be ashamed of what's
happening."

I think it's rather arrogant to assume that your moral position is 'what all
Americans should think or else they are immoral'.

I'm weary of the executive order myself ...

but it's not entirely irrational to temporarily ban entry of people from
nations that are in _open conflict_ and from areas wherein the only
'governance' is that of a jihadist entity.

Except Iran - all the others are serious conflict zones, wherein many
participants would gladly act against the USA.

Have you looked at a political map of Libya or Yemen lately?

Scary stuff.

What is 'despicable' is the wailing and misrepresentation of the issue across
the board.

If Obama were to have done this after a terrorist attack (say, a 'shooting' in
Cali or whatever) - and it was done quietly and reasonably so that those with
green cards etc. would be allowed in - and so that people 'on flights' would
not be affected, I don't think there would be such a huge fuss.

I believe that after 90 days, most of those who would be coming to America
will still be coming in.

This will de-facto boil down to a unnecessary political disruption ... but
it's both fair and within the bounds of responsible reason to recognize the
fact that Yemen, Syria, Somalia, Iraq etc. are very dangerous places, much
more so than most places, and that some extra precautions are possibly
necessary.

I don't really support it, but it's not out of bounds for people to think it's
necessary.

Iran though - that's purely political (admittedly, it's probably all
political). Jihadis don't come from Iran.

~~~
dkarapetyan
The influx is the refugees fleeing the conflict. These are exactly the people
that we want to support because they are peaceful and are not contributing to
the conflict.

In those 90 days lives that could have been saved might be lost all because we
have a moron in charge. Inaction is not acceptable and fighting this thing
tooth and nail is the right thing to do because historical precedent says it
only gets worse from here.

~~~
edblarney
I agree with your sentiment.

But 90 days will not put anyone's lives at risk.

The 'waiting process' for most refugee claimants trying to enter the US is
years.

This idea you might have in your mind of 'people running from Aleppo with
their luggage onto airplanes' \- is just not how it works.

Refugees to the US come mostly from refugee camps, where they have been living
a long time.

Also - the vast majority of Syrian refugees go elsewhere - as America
(unfortunately) does not take on very many refugees, relatively speaking.

In the end, there actually might be some process/security adjustments that
need to be made.

You know the 'no fly list' \- that ridiculous 'name based' thing? If you have
the same name as a jihadi - you can't fly! It's crazy - and also insecure. Who
knows, maybe they'll fix that?

I would urge people to keep the details in mind, and to keep things in
perspective.

If I thought people were going to be 'dying' over this, I'd be wailing. But
they won't. It's just some temporary, crude regulation.

~~~
tptacek
You keep writing as if this act applies only to refugees. That would be bad
enough: empirically, virtually none of those refugees are threats to American
citizens, and the evidence that those refugees are threatened in their home
countries is _unimpeachable_. Our feckless policies with regards to refugees
are a stain on our history and our standing in the world.

But, of course, these policies _do not simply apply to immigrants_. So many
green card holders have been stranded as a result of Trump's ill-considered,
bigoted executive order that large companies are having to run war rooms to
handle their stranded employees: see, for instance, Microsoft's all-hands
announcement to their employees, 76 of whom are impacted by the order.

You write both stridently and confidently about this issue, in several places
on the thread, in some of your messages going so far as to chide other
commenters for their thoughts on it. But you yourself do not seem well
acquainted with it.

------
tptacek
Please consider:

It's heartening to see tech CEOs speak out against bigotry and disheartening
to see other tech leaders remain quiet and it all makes a potent narrative and
easy access to the tops of message board front pages.

But it does not. actually. matter. what tech leadership does.

We are not all sitting dutifully in our seats at Moscone waiting to see what
"one more thing" from CEOs and venture capitalists is going to look like.
We're also not prisoners of the management of companies whose CEOs join the
administration or attend summits at Trump's garish Barad-Dûfus.

It may not be true for all workers in all industries but as someone who's been
working in tech for more than 20 years I'm telling you that our management
needs us more than we need them. There has never been a better market for our
services or a set of employers more dependent on our goodwill and cooperation
than in 2017.

Do not wait for your firm's CEO to take a stand. Organize with your coworkers.
If you don't know how to get started doing that, start thinking of stabs you
can take at the problem. Organizing is a problem where code _actually might
make a difference_. Organize a pledge, or a group statement, or meetups. Or
some other idea we haven't come up with yet.

A lot of engineers want to believe their work is apolitical. I understand the
impulse. But your work is political whether you want it to be or not. If you
don't put your market power to use for your beliefs, you're just accepting
your employer's default settings, and putting it to work for theirs. Don't
accept the defaults.

Organize your workplace. You have a crazy amount of influence you're not using
right now. It won't always be like this; don't waste the opportunity.

Places to start:

The Indivisible guide:

[https://www.indivisibleguide.com/](https://www.indivisibleguide.com/) \---
there are at least 10 software projects buried in this thing, but also
remember the same ideas apply on a smaller scale both in local politics and at
your work place.

[https://twitter.com/techsolidarity](https://twitter.com/techsolidarity) \---
show up to one of these. They're well attended and they'll interface you to
your local ( _serious_ ) activist community, people actually working with
those at risk.

Also things I've said in the last few days that I'd rather not repeat but are
relevant:

On calling your reps:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=13509555](https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=13509555)
\--- please punch your Senators and Congresspeople's numbers into your speed
dial.

On running for office:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13493366](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13493366)
\--- _please_ convince a friend to run for local office.

On U2F, TOTP, and SMS:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13493100](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13493100)
\--- _please_ disable SMS authentication on services that will let you. :)

If you're building applications to ensure that people put pressure on their
local representatives or, even better, to get normal people to run for local
elected office, I want to help!

~~~
jacquesm
> But it does not. actually. matter. what tech leadership does.

But it could. Between Musk, Page, Brin, Zuckerberg and a handful of others
there are some interesting options that would send a message that you'd have
to be stone deaf not to hear.

~~~
tptacek
I have a problem with the helplessness implied in our somewhat breathless
reporting of which tech leaders speak out. I agree in general that tech CEOs
should resist this administration and do so publicly. But it's even more
important that rank-and-file employees organize and put their market power in
the service of their ideals, rather than the other way around.

------
rdl
What he and other business advisory group meeting people say on Friday is
going to have more impact than any number of street protests.

------
xacaxulu
The virtue signaling is strong with this one.

~~~
legodt
When did "virtue signalling" become the de facto insult against people
standing up for human rights? I've been seeing it a lot around hacker news and
from various alt right outlets. I've seen it exclusively in dismissive tones
to imply that advocacy only exists in a performative dimension.

~~~
diyorgasms
I find it amusing because the implication is that the alt-right views virtue
as a perjorative.

------
throw2016
I don't support this action but how can you reconcile being offended by this
action and yet be blase while we nonchalantly bombs others daily leading to
the complete devastation of entire countries and their people.

This does not seem consistent. One is right to move freely and the other is
right to live. Why is this so much worse than the other? This is just one more
in a line of negative actions towards a particular region and its people who
are being abused and killed for self serving geo-political and economic
reasons.

~~~
throw2016
Too cynical and I take back this comment. Am impressed with the level of
activism and response. Well done.

------
mangeletti
Is this 2017? We're taking ethics lessons from the CEO of Uber?

------
schappim
I was expecting Uber to ban the Trump administration from using Uber, but
instead was pleased see a far classier move to help out drivers stuck outside
the country:

>> We are working out a process to identify these drivers and compensate them
pro bono during the next three months to help mitigate some of the financial
stress and complications with supporting their families and putting food on
the table. We will have more details on this in the coming days.

------
llamataboot
Uber is currently scabbing to break a taxi strike at JFK that is being done
against this immigration ban. Kalanick is actively collaborating with Trump.

------
primitivesuave
Travis Kalanick and "standing up for what's right" are mutually exclusive. I
thought this would be about finally paying Uber drivers more than starvation
wages, and was not too surprised to see it is just a PR stunt.

------
diebir
As an Uber employee, I would also like to NOT see TK at the Trump's "business
forum". Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft and others are staying away.

------
rocky1138
Ghostery blocked this. Does anyone have a text dump?

~~~
Groxx
This afternoon I sent the email below to Uber employees and thought I would
include here:

Subject: Standing up for what's right

Team,

Yesterday President Trump signed an executive order suspending entry of
citizens from seven countries—Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and
Yemen—to the United States for at least the next 90 days.

Our People Ops team has already reached out to the dozen or so employees who
we know are affected: for example, those who live and work in the U.S., are
legal residents but not naturalized citizens will not be able to get back into
the country if they are traveling outside of the U.S. now or anytime in the
next 90 days. Anyone who believes that this order could impact them should
contact our immigration team immediately.

This order has far broader implications as it also affects thousands of
drivers who use Uber and come from the listed countries, many of whom take
long breaks to go back home to see their extended family. These drivers
currently outside of the U.S. will not be able to get back into the country
for 90 days. That means they will not be able to earn a living and support
their families—and of course they will be separated from their loved ones
during that time.

We are working out a process to identify these drivers and compensate them pro
bono during the next three months to help mitigate some of the financial
stress and complications with supporting their families and putting food on
the table. We will have more details on this in the coming days.

While every government has their own immigration controls, allowing people
from all around the world to come here and make America their home has largely
been the U.S.’s policy since its founding. That means this ban will impact
many innocent people—an issue that I will raise this coming Friday when I go
to Washington for President Trump’s first business advisory group meeting.

Ever since Uber’s founding we’ve had to work with governments and politicians
of all political persuasions across hundreds of cities and dozens of
countries. Though we share common ground with many of them, we have had areas
of disagreement with each of them. In some cases we’ve had to stand and fight
to make progress, other times we’ve been able to effect change from within
through persuasion and argument.

But whatever the city or country—from the U.S. and Mexico to China and
Malaysia—we’ve taken the view that in order to serve cities you need to give
their citizens a voice, a seat at the table. We partner around the world
optimistically in the belief that by speaking up and engaging we can make a
difference. Our experience is that not doing so shortchanges cities and the
people who live in them. This is why I agreed in early December to join
President Trump’s economic advisory group along with Elon Musk (CEO of Tesla),
Mary Barra (Chairwoman/CEO of General Motors), Indra Nooyi (Chairwoman/CEO of
Pepsi), Ginni Rometty (Chairwoman/CEO of IBM), Bob Iger (Chairman/CEO of
Disney), Jack Welch (former Chairman of GE) and a dozen other business
leaders.

I understand that many people internally and externally may not agree with
that decision, and that’s OK. It's the magic of living in America that people
are free to disagree. But whatever your view please know that I’ve always
believed in principled confrontation and just change; and have never shied
away (maybe to my detriment) from fighting for what’s right.

Thanks,

Travis Kalanick

------
obi1kenobi
Interesting bit: Travis Kalanick pledges that Uber will compensate drivers
stuck overseas because of the executive orders.

~~~
toephu2
And how many of those are there? Do you think many uber drivers can afford to
go overseas? Yes a few, but I doubt it's a high number. This is just a PR
stunt.

------
EGreg
I thought this guy largely had a reputation as an asshole ... but here he
comes off as downright responsible and caring.

------
orblivion
They say Trump is easily swayed by people he meets with. Let's hope this
works.

~~~
ArtDev
His first meeting is with Vladimir Putin..

~~~
orblivion
Well more specifically, it's whoever he met with more recently :-D

------
quakeguy
Only a glimpse of what is to come i fear, lets hope the best.

------
empy
America is so divided now. So maybe it's better just to divide America into
liberal America and conservative America. This is better for both left and
right side.

~~~
revx
Some people tried that in the 1860s, and it didn't go very well...

~~~
Retra
Admittedly, there was a much larger threat of large-scale foreign invasion at
the time.

------
ChuckMcM
I suppose he could pull out of DC

------
DanBC
I booked my first Uber ride because of this post.

------
bamboozled
Who really cares what this hypocrite and other US based technology CEOs like
him think.

For them it's fine to totally to run companies who:

    
    
        * Abuse user privacy.
        * Constatntly pretend they are driving positive social progress.
        * Track people in a non-transparent, disrespectful way.
        * Build echo chambers to keep people ill-informed and hooked on using services.
        * Avoid paying tax.
        * Automate people out of jobs, while not contributing to wellfare systems.
        * Get rich off state owned infrastructure and give little to nothing back.
        * Give money to political parties.
        * Exploit cheap labor.
        * Censor things for government agencies.
    

However, as soon as profts are at risk, they decide to come out swinging.

Where is the outrage when a child goes hungry in Africa, or a person is bombed
in Syria by a US drone? The billions and billions of dollars tied up in these
companies should be going back into communities, education, medical and food
aid. Not on "moonshots", and ambiguous charity initiaivies which only go
towards lining their pockets further.

It's companies that operate in this way which gave Trump a voice, knowingly or
unknowningly. Trump didn't just magic himself into the Whitehouse, did he?

I feel sorry for anyone affected by this but having CEOs throwing bullshit
into the bonfire won't help.

Everyone is responsible for the current situation, it's not just the actions
of one man.

~~~
FLGMwt
Even if I was a saint, I'd rather give this message to an asshat with an
audience.

------
baybal2
+1 to that guy, even if it is a PR move

------
whenwillitstop
Travis Kalanick, standing up for the cheap labor that drives his Ubers and
writes it's code.

~~~
mavdi
Yet you're more than likely an avid user of this conveniently provided,
reasonably priced and reliable service.

~~~
whenwillitstop
You are right, I am. That doesnt change the underlying reasons for a company
like Uber to make this statement. It is manipulation of the public, intended
to make Uber look moral, as well as intended to reassure their cheap labor
base. The fact that people on here are championing it shows how effective this
kind of PR is, even among the educated people of HN.

~~~
Groxx
What's the alternative for Uber? Silence?

~~~
whenwillitstop
I'm just saying, it is no coincidence that they say this. There are a lot of
influences like this Uber statement that are doing the same thing. Most people
are not aware

~~~
Groxx
but basically you're saying if they say nothing, it's horrible. if they say
anything good, it's a PR stunt.

so they're incapable of doing anything positive? which you may think and are
welcome to do so, but it seems a teensy bit prejudicial to me.

~~~
whenwillitstop
They only say something when it benefits them, companies are not a charity

------
owly
READY? Boycott Uber. Do not use under any circumstances.

------
camperman
"While every government has their own immigration controls, allowing people
from all around the world to come here and make America their home has largely
been the U.S.’s policy since its founding."

Nonsense.

------
earthly10x
To address the trump problem, we must have a good understanding of trump
himself, his DNA and this clip helps with that I noticed:
[https://youtu.be/CTzBZuPx1lQ?t=1643](https://youtu.be/CTzBZuPx1lQ?t=1643)

------
paradox95
Too bad he's silent for the past year when these issues were obviously going
to happen. He allowed it to happen. And now he's quietly giving Trump lip
service behind closed doors. He (Travis + Uber) doesn't give a damn about
anyone. As long as they can get some Uber-friendly policy from Trump they'll
continue to let him do whatever he wants. They are enabling him by working
with him on other issues while ignoring this.

Such PR bullshit. Trying to look good in the public eye.

