
Windows 7 outgains Windows 8 in market share again, Windows XP still above 27% - jonathansizz
http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2014/04/01/windows-7-outgains-windows-8-8-1-market-share-windows-xp-still-27/?
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mikegioia
I just recently recommended Win7 to my dad over Win8/8.1. I tried getting him
to switch to Ubuntu but that just wasn't going to happen.

I've been testing our web apps in Windows 7/8 a lot and I can say that getting
people to convert to Win8 is going to be a serious uphill battle for
Microsoft. The hidden menu, missing start button, and general hodge-podgery of
switching between tablet/desktop mode had me ripping my hair out in
frustration. I spent 15 minutes trying to figure out how to check my wireless
network config in Windows 8 before I got trapped in the white settings screen
with no way out. Apparently you have to hover to the top right of the screen
for a second to bring up that hidden charms menu even from within the settings
screen. Why there's no visible "close" button, and why [ESC] didn't take me
out I'll never know but it seems like no one even used Win8 before they
released it.

~~~
derefr
> Why there's no visible "close" button, and why [ESC] didn't take me out

W8 makes a lot more sense, to me, if you think of Metro applications as each
running fullscreen in their own ephemeral virtual desktops. You don't
"minimize" a virtual desktop; you switch away from it. You don't "close" a
virtual desktop; you quit the program running on it, and it ceases to exist.
(In other words, the solution in W8.0 is either "press Alt+F4 to quit the
application", or "throw-your-mouse-toward/swipe-away-from at the top-left
corner to open the virtual-desktop switcher.")

It's exactly the same as fullscreen app behavior in OSX, or Gnome; the only
difference is that your "native" windowed apps are all limited to living on a
single virtual desktop, rather than the user being able to spread them out
across several.

In the upcoming 8.1.1 update (or whatever it's called), there'll be an
additional UX: throw-your-mouse-toward/swipe-away-from the top of a virtual
desktop, and you'll get a sort of title-bar with caption buttons for the
virtual desktop itself. That's actually kind of brilliantly-obvious, once you
see it, and I hope that idea spreads to every OS.

~~~
mikegioia
That may be nice and all, but I'm not on a tablet, I'm on a desktop. I know
I'm speaking for myself, but I rarely like fullscreen applications in a
desktop setting. It's why you infrequently see people using fullscreen mode in
their browser unless they're watching videos.

The problem I have is that it feels like Microsoft is forcing me into that
virtual desktop environment when I just want a regular desktop environment;
and it's _that_ aspect that I feel will turn people to Win7.

~~~
TillE
Fullscreen apps work great on a Macbook, and you only need to know two simple
trackpad gestures: three fingers side to side, and three fingers up. And yes,
you can break out of it by mashing ESC.

It's an interface clearly designed for a multi-touch trackpad, and it's a joy
to use. It makes a 13" laptop screen feel a lot less cramped. Contrast to Win8
which is an overcomplicated mess, filled with interface decisions that are
suboptimal for a mouse or trackpad interface.

~~~
clauretano
Especially with the low screen resolution of the 11" MacBook Air, full-screen
mode becomes essential. On a 27" 1440p display, not so much. I personally use
full screen mode for iTunes (mainly so that iTunes is always a quick multi-
swipe away) but not for anything else.

I think the animations on Mac OS make full screen mode great. Slide some
fingers on the trackpad and you switch to the next full screen app or virtual
desktop. On Win8 it's a jarring zoom in zoom out animation, without any
ability to 'peek', at least using a mouse/keyboard interface on a desktop.

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jayd16
I'll post this hear because I need to rant.

This weekend I put together a PC for a less technical friend of mine. He had
bought windows 8.1 online and had it ready for me, downloaded and burned.

Hardware build went fine, installed 8.1. The install went great actually. It
was much quicker than I thought it would be!

...except it was 32bit.

"Dang! Must have missed a drop down."

Hours and hours of reinstalling, pouring over every screen, calling tech
support, getting transferred around from department to department eventually
landing on someone who was able to tell us that the downloader for windows 8.1
will pick, without option, the bit width of the machine you run the downloader
on. WHAT?!

I had to drive home to my 64 bit win7 install, download, burn, drive back, and
reinstall. The engineering in win 8 is great but the UX and product choices
surrounding the engineering is a nightmare.

tl;dr had to find a windows 7 machine to install windows 8.

~~~
nly
So... piracy is still more user friendly? Grand

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pistle
I've used Windows 8 for as long as it's been out and it's my 'get things done'
OS via bootcamp on my MBP.

I work at a place stuck on 7 and I want 8. Many little things and a few bigger
things are just better in 8. Task manager?! Search?! Snapping the metro apps
(music/skype/etc) into the little slice along the edge of the screen on one of
my monitors?

I've only used it on desktops and laptops and it's better than 7.

What I keep seeing is "serious" computer people who aren't Windows users,
fans, or enthusiasts flailing - much the same way I flail with linux or OSX
when doing the 3-5% of tasks that are not well-supported. Finder? F _# &$_#&$
finder? How do you organize your files on OSX?

So I see someone who feels that they should just "get" a new interface because
they know how to use a "from-the-corner" menu system, etc. and they don't get
it (because they didn't watch Scott Hanselman's Win8 bootstrapping video). So,
obviously nobody should be able to get it... psh - LOSER operating system
alert!!! Even number FAIL! Check out the penguin tattoo I got. Linux til I
die.

Here's the thing. My kids get it. They aren't 10. Their mental plasticity and
lack of ego enabled them to be mad functional right quick. They jump in and
out of desktop mode without a whine or cry for help.

We've got 20+ years of a model of thought around approaching the machine.
Someone disrupts the model, and the champions of disruption crowd roll up in a
ball?

~~~
gedrap
This.

I manage to keep emotions aside most of the time, I am cool working with
Win/Linux/OS X. I have preferences but I won't cry if I have to work with
something which is not my top preference. And I am a happy user of Win8.

I believe, most of the criticism is also because it's Microsoft. You know,
just like PHP or VB6, it's an easy joke. And hardly anyone will give you weird
looks for hating MSFT. Good luck with publicly hating Apple. Of course, there
is some good criticism. But only some of it.

Innovation is about failing until you find something new that works. Microsoft
took a risk by offering something new, this time it didn't pay off. Microsoft
people are not toddlers and they were aware of that. Yes, that kind of
dashboards is not something unseen to human kind, but it's new having
something like that as the first screen after OS loads.

Metro is a good example of good idea, shit implementation. I really like the
idea of a screen where everything in one place. It's something refreshing in
desktop OSes. And the design of Metro apps looks visually appealing (e.g.
Skype). But the implementation, default content is pretty bad. It's just not
something I might need. And most of the things requiring MS Live account (even
Calendar) killed any desire to explore.

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octopus
I think Windows 8.1 is a lot closer to the classic Windows experience than
Windows 8 for e.g. If you select the option to boot directly in the Desktop
mode.

My mother (55) recently switched from XP to Windows 8.1. Except for 1 - 2 days
of initial hurdle she didn't needed my help at all. She is by no means a
computer person ...

~~~
polshaw
I've had a similar experience with mine. Literally struggles with copy and
paste, but has taken to windows 8 (and modern UI/metro) extremely well, and
has no problem with the various swipe gestures for working things. Many
things- like printing- have been much _easier_. That said she does have a
touchscreen, which I think is essential to get the _benefits_ of modern UI--
although I still don't believe it is _bad_ for a desktop user; just live in
desktop mode all the time and only use the start screen from metro. Items are
_so_ much more discoverable in windows 8- that is, much less functionality is
hidden behind context/sub-menus.

~~~
octopus
If you don't have a touchscreen you can set Windows 8.1 to boot (start)
directly in Desktop mode, basically you can bypass the Metro interface.

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JohnTHaller
It's kind of funny that people accept Net Applications' metrics for operating
system market share when we're talking about Windows XP/7/8 without making a
peep but refuse to accept the fact that Net Applications also shows that IE is
the dominant web browser by a large margin (IE @ 58%, Chrome @ 17.5%, Firefox
@ 17.3%, Safari @ 5.7%).

~~~
Gracana
Who refuses to believe that?

~~~
JohnTHaller
I get downvoted to 0 or below on Hacker News every time I point it out along
with the fact that Net Applications is more accurate because it measures
visitors instead of hits. It's likely some of the same people who downvote and
refuse to believe that every character of every URL in Chrome is sent to
Google with prediction on (the default).

It's funny, some people desperately need to believe that Chrome is the most
popular browser and does no wrong just because they use it.

~~~
Gracana
Huh, no kidding. Well if you ever need more evidence, ars technica does really
nice articles on browser market share, like this one:
[http://arstechnica.com/information-
technology/2014/01/window...](http://arstechnica.com/information-
technology/2014/01/windows-8-x-breaks-10-percent-internet-explorer-11-makes-a-
splash/)

~~~
JohnTHaller
That article uses the same data from Net Applications (via NetMarketShare).
The Chrome 'true believers' will find some way to explain it away because it
doesn't fit their world view. I wonder if they believe if evolution? :)

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mark-r
I work for a reasonably large company that is now in the middle of
transitioning all its Windows XP PCs to Windows 7. I imagine that it's the
same for many businesses that support a large population. Windows 8 represents
a larger retraining burden and hasn't been around long enough for the IT
support to be comfortable with it. This report doesn't surprise me at all.

~~~
zmmmmm
Yep, same here. I expect a massive surge in Win7 adoption over the next few
months. Remember that Win7 (and Win7 only) ships with XP Mode - the perfect
last ditch solution for people with legacy apps or hardware that won't run any
other way. So it's an incredibly attractive solution for anyone stuck with a
gazillion WinXP boxes to upgrade.

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bambax
Isn't there a huge opportunity here for a stable, modern operating system?

Or for some system to run complex Windows apps in Linux? (Wine is great but
for many apps, such as Adobe Lightroom or Sony Vegas it just dies silently
during install.)

If there was some container that would let one run complex, modern Windows
apps in Linux I'm sure people would pay for it. I would pay for it.

~~~
sanderjd
Honestly, I think that stable, modern operating system is Windows 7. I was at
Best Buy looking at computers recently. I asked if I could get one with
Windows 7. The sales associate was practically grinding his teeth telling me
that no, I could not. "So what if I want a computer that works well as a
laptop rather than an extra-bulky tablet?" "Well if you're interested in Macs,
we have a lot of nice options over here that fit that bill..." Ouch.

~~~
mark-r
Hah! If you're going to have to relearn everything anyway, might as well
consider switching out completely.

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davidf18
Windows 8/8.1 has additional security against viruses and malware compared
with Windows 7 and for this reason alone I would suggest the update to 8.1

It use it in a Parallels VM but it takes little time to become adjusted to
using 8.1

~~~
afhsfsfdsss88
If you are talking about built-in Defender being the tipping point to compel
you to move to Windows 8 from Windows 7...

That is a non-reason, reason. MSE is 100% free and the same damn thing. The
phishing filters and other BS is part of IE, which is also present in Windows
7, not Windows 8 specific. The ASLR, et al are in both versions.

There is really nothing tangible which compels an informed PC user to
'upgrade' to Windows 8 from Windows 7.

~~~
ubercow13
>There is really nothing tangible which compels an informed PC user to
'upgrade' to Windows 8 from Windows 7

There are loads of things! What a silly thing to say. Try reading any article
about Windows 8 which doesn't focus on the metro aspect

~~~
afhsfsfdsss88
My conclusion does not stem from articles. It comes from actually using it
next to 7, doing the same user and admin tasks I usually do. Without third
party software to reign-in Metro it dominates and cripples the experience for
a PC use case.

The ONLY thing I wish 7 could steal from 8 is the task manager...

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UUMMUU
Microsoft will be relevant again once they've hit rock bottom. Currently
they're still digging.

