
Mark Zuckerberg: Success like mine only happens with luck - champagnepapi
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/24/billionaire-mark-zuckerberg-success-like-mine-only-happens-with-luck.html
======
lend000
The important piece to note, which Zuckerberg may or may not understand, is
that the UBI should be accompanied by the elimination of the rest of the
welfare state (yes, all of it, including minimum wage). Combined with
requiring people to be US citizens for 18 years before qualifying should
eliminate most of the qualms critics have with the idea. Overall, I don't
think the tax burden is significant for a minimalist UBI, because the savings
from eliminating our current welfare state full of mal-incentives will
increase productivity.

~~~
frgtpsswrdlame
Lol what? UBI doesn't make up for medicaid, medicare and minimum wage for
example. We should probably keep foodstamps as well. It's an advancement of
the welfare state, that's the whole point Zuckerberg is making. Our current
welfare state is inadequate which is why lots of kids don't get a fair shot.
Zuckerberg's fix for this is to use more welfare to create a more even field
for all kids to compete on.

~~~
gnaritas
You're right about medical, but the whole point of UBI is to provide a floor
upon which anyone can live without the expensive bureaucracy of qualifying
them. It's supposed to replace the welfare state with something more
efficient. That's not a regression, with UBI you don't need foodstamps or any
other kind of assistance (not counting healthcare which is a separate thing).

~~~
frgtpsswrdlame
No, that's the point of UBI _in your mind_. This is actually what I think is
harmful about our current obsession with UBI, all the politicians are slowly
coming around to it and when they do that you know some people are about to
get screwed. UBI isn't here to reduce welfare spending or to reduce welfare
spending on the poor. Inequality has a direct effect on social mobility. Thus
programs which exacerbate inequality are antithetical to the idea of a
meritocracy. We need more, direct redistribution to the poor to fix America's
problems with social mobility. Abolishing the minimum wage because of UBI?
Come on.

~~~
gnaritas
That's the point of UBI in most people's minds, it's a better way to
redistribute wealth and once in place should be the only way needed. Of what
purpose is a food stamp program when we can simply make sure the UBI is enough
to live on? UBI is about dealing with a world where we don't don't have enough
jobs for everyone, that already covers the poor. Want more redistribution,
raise the UBI. It's one program that can replace the entire welfare state. UBI
would be a better and more efficient use of the existing welfare money as well
as new funds so it can be given to everyone. It makes no sense to have UBI and
a welfare state at the same time. And yes, you don't need a minimum wage when
you have UBI, UBI is a minimum wage.

~~~
blackoil
Minimum wages will have to stay, particularly if job market is heavily skewed
towards employer, to stop competition driving it to bottom.

~~~
uoaei
How is the job market going to be skewed towards the employer? That statement
needs some clarification.

The way it seems to me, it would make sense that actually jobs would shift
away from menial tasks (which will be replaced by automation eventually
anyway) in favor of things that people actually consider a valuable use of
time. You can't get people to do jobs they don't want to do _if they don 't
have to do them_. At least, not at a scale that leads to the situation you
seem to be implying.

If you had $2000 in your pocket every month why would you waste your time on a
job that pays $9/hr? Maybe you'll find some people who take 5- or 10-hr/wk
contracts so they have a little extra beer money, but it definitely would
eliminate the need to submit yourself to the job market woes that currently
plague the poor. People value their time with a money analogue, since this is
a moneyed system we're living in, so you won't find many who will choose to
earn less than what they can see themselves paying on a daily basis.

------
m52go
I don't understand how people so smart can be fooled by the idea that
automation will permanently take jobs away from the economy.

Jobs will shift, but thinking we need cash handouts for people to live on
(because all the jobs will just POOF, disappear!) is just naive. Just as
farmers & bowling-pin-setters found new jobs in the past, taxi-drivers will
find new jobs in the future.

Zuckerberg is right that people should be more entrepreneurial, but I see no
reason why the labor transformation we're undergoing now will reduce overall
jobs in the market. It never has.

~~~
abiox
> Just as farmers & bowling-pin-setters found new jobs in the past, taxi-
> drivers will find new jobs in the future.

this seems like something of a religious view, and seems to downplay the
nature and scope of technological advancement.

mechanization obviated a lot of physical labor. this made human expansion into
mental labor and services more practical. however technology is fast
approaching a point where substantial amounts of mental labor and services
will be subject to automation.

most 'new jobs' won't necessarily go to humans, as they'll be ripe for
automation from the start.

~~~
cgmg
What on earth does it have to do with religion?

~~~
abiox
'religious view' was an epistemic reference.

------
Mz
If he wants to give his own money away, cool. But there are a lot of problems
with the idea of a UBI that are not solved by rich people admitting "I
wouldn't have gotten here without first having a basic level of privilege."

It isn't just "luck" that got him there. It was education, connections, hard
work and many other things. I have alimony in about the amount that many
people suggest for UBI. Yes, that has been a good thing, but it hasn't gotten
me insider connections, magically taught me to code or solved many other
problems that need to be solved in order for me to become rich.

There is just so much more going on that people like Mark Zuckerberg
apparently fail to see. It isn't just the money they had that helped them
leapfrog to the position they currently occupy. Simply throwing money at this
problem will not make poor people the next multi-billionaires.

~~~
thanksgiving
Yes, having a UBI does not automatically grant you connections.

There are a lot of questions about people who will fall through the cracks. I
raise those questions all the time.

However, I support a UBI, not because it is a silver bullet to everything but
because it is a step forward. It is a real shame that we can't provide
nutrition for everyone in these United States (much less the whole world).
There is no reason other than greed why our economy can't feed and house each
and every one of us.

I fear the real positive outcomes might take generations to manifest and might
get wiped out by one major economic depression.

------
rhizome
I'll say this: I was in the emergency room at San Francisco General Hospital
last week, and while his namesake wing was very nicely appointed, the Xray
tech was complaining about the software performance and monitor resolution.

------
tarr11
Can someone who supports UBI talk about how it would impact immigration
policy?

That feels like one of the biggest problems with it.

~~~
abhi3
I suppose UBI would only be provided to citizens and not immigrants (until
they become citizens)

------
valuearb
How would he know?

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659087
Stealing and generally lacking a moral compass helps, too.

------
luckydata
thank you for fucking the country. I'm sure you feel very smug now that a few
evil fucks are trying to take basic healthcare protection away from a bunch of
poor people.

~~~
dang
Personal attacks and political flamewar will both get you banned on HN, so
please don't post like this again.

More generally, would you please only post civil and substantive comments
here? You've done that a fair bit but you've also done the opposite some. In
order for HN to have a hope of being slightly better than the nasty internet
median, we all need to pitch in with the effort.

We detached this subthread from
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14842404](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14842404)
and marked it off-topic.

------
akhilcacharya
Likely an unpopular opinion but the idea of him winning in 2020 isn't as far
fetched as some liberals think.

~~~
m52go
I don't like Facebook, and I don't particularly like Zuckerberg, but I highly
respect the guy. He's clearly a very smart person.

But I think the leader of a country needs to live life a bit more before
leading a country. If he does want to be president someday, I think 2020 is
way too early.

~~~
jrs95
I actually disagree here. I think someone young, energetic, and highly
intelligent & analytic is exactly what we need to break out of the rut we're
in. And so far the tone of his tour across the US seems to indicate that he
wants to be fairly centrist and bipartisan, but without necessarily sticking
to political norms.

~~~
pcrh
>young, energetic, and highly intelligent & analytic

That isn't what works in politics...

What works in politics is knowing which levers to pull, and having the money
or influence (in the right paces) to do pull them.

~~~
dageshi
I think he has all that stuff as well? He's certainly got the money and he's
got a big lever named "facebook" which gets his message infront of a
substantial portion of the US voting public.

~~~
saurik
I am (anxiously) waiting for the "have you voted yet?" reminders Facebook has
been using to get people to the polls in recent elections to turn into "have
you voted for the Zuck yet?".

~~~
abhi3
Can't do that. Zuck can't use FB resources or any form of support from FB
(other than employees who volunteer outside work hours) for a political
campaign. If he does he'll have to reimburse the fair value of services
received from campaign funds.

~~~
jrs95
But what if it were done on behalf of a super PAC that just happened to be in
favor of his campaign?

~~~
abhi3
It would be legal as long as there is no coordination with the campaign but I
can imagine enterprise ending class actions against FB by minority
shareholders if the Board violated their fiduciary duty to shareholders by
involving FB in the campaign.

------
smokeyj
What a great fluff piece. I'm guessing the blogger here will get an inside
scoop when Zuck runs for office.

It's interesting how Zuck seems so generous when it comes to politics yet
doesn't apply that same mentality to his cafeteria workers.

------
benevol
Success like Facebook's cafeteria workers' only happens with bad luck?

~~~
adrenalinelol
It's not like said contractors get paid more anywhere else? While the
situation those folks from the article in is horrible, Facebook isn't a
charity.

------
abhi3
In the pursuit of success like Zuck's sometimes being 'unlucky' can also mean
getting lucky.

Being raised in a family that struggles to make ends meet might give one the
grit and character one needs to succeed. Not being popular, athletic or good
with people might push you into more intellectual pursuits.

~~~
sebcat
> Being raised in a family that struggles to make ends meet might give one the
> grit and character one needs to succeed.

Or it stacks the odds against you, and you'll struggle the same way those
before you in your family/social group did.

~~~
abhi3
It definitely stacks the odds against you if you are aiming to be part of the
top one percent. But if you aiming to be one of the few dozen people as
successful as Zuckerberg, then I think your odds are better if you had a tough
life vs. a privileged one.

