Ask HN: What is the best Hackintosh laptop for ios app developers? - sahin-boydas
======
niftylettuce
Don't bother with a Hackintosh. I've spent time R&D iDeneb and custom Tony Mac
OS X builds, and realize it's way easier (and cheaper, especially in terms of
time) to simply buy an entry level Macbook Air or Pro (honestly an Air is fine
enough if you're not doing video editing, I got by using one for 3+ years
before I got a Pro).

To get the best deal you can either purchase from eBay (use cashback at
TopCashback.com and no tax) or try to find a store that lets you use gift
cards purchased at ~10+% discount. You can get gift cards at
[https://www.giftcardgranny.com](https://www.giftcardgranny.com) and if you
shop at a store like Best Buy you can probably get the EDU discount code with
a fake EDU from
[https://secure.californiacolleges.edu/Home/Create_an_Account...](https://secure.californiacolleges.edu/Home/Create_an_Account/Create_an_Account.aspx).

Hackintosh really not worth it unless you're doing serious video editing.

~~~
xyclos
You can also get a refurbished macbook pro or imac straight from apple for
less than a new macbook air
[http://www.apple.com/shop/browse/home/specialdeals/mac](http://www.apple.com/shop/browse/home/specialdeals/mac)

~~~
teslabox
The Apple Store matches prices, up to 10% iirc. Fry's electronics email prices
are about the same 15% discount as the refurbished apple products at your
link.

------
rickyc091
Having used a hackintosh (Surface Pro) as a secondary machine to my Mac, I
don't recommend it for everyone.

* You won't be able to update to the latest patches without possibly breaking the build. There's a possibly you need to re-hack your device every year. Xcode is tied directly to Mac OS X builds. For example, you can't download 8.1 unless your own Sierra right now.

* WiFi / Bluetooth didn't work for my particular hackintosh, but it'll be better for others.

* Graphics were a bit buggy (again not a problem depending on the device).

* Login would fritz out on occasion so I'd have to boot into safe mode to fix it. Could be my particular device, but random problems are common with hackintoshs.

* When it worked it was amazing, touchscreen worked as well.

* iMessage / FaceTime will not work unless you hack it and provide it your Mac's serial number. Do this at your own risk. This could essentially break iMessage on your original mac. I think I ended up emailing them or something to get it looked into / fixed.

* App Store has some issues as well as lot of things are tied into the serial number of the Mac.

* If you enjoy fiddling and hacking on things, I'd recommend this. It was a good learning experience for me and I don't regret it, but I wouldn't want to do it again. I ended up having to modify some kernel files to get some things working. Basically a lot of tinkering from one patch to another.

Having done it once, I wouldn't go the hackintosh route again. While I enjoyed
the process, the amount of time I spent to get it work wasn't worth it for me.
If price was an issue, it's definitely a good route.

~~~
mizaru
You don't need Sierra to run 8.1

------
adomanico
I don't recommend using a hackintosh for your professional development.

That being said, building a hackintosh rig and getting it to work is really
fun to play around with!

~~~
lucisferre
> That being said, building a hackintosh rig and getting it to work is really
> fun to play around with!

In other words, doing this will eat up countless hours so you should only by
doing this if you want (i.e., have time for) a new hobby, not because you
think the new MBPs lack of an Esc key is going to ruin your productivity.

------
phmagic
I've tried many Hackintosh options out there years ago specifically to get
started developing on iOS. While I think many machines can run Mac, I gave up
on Hackintosh for iOS development mainly because:

1\. Opportunity cost - The time you spend on hackintosh could be spent
exploring the iOS SDK. It is an extensive and amazing SDK to work with.

2\. Need to embrace the platform - I once hated the fact that you had to get a
Mac to develop for iOS. But then a light clicked in my head: If you aren't
willing to get a Mac, you'd never appreciate the iOS platform and always hate
it for not being more open, or not supporting many languages, etc.

~~~
m3rc
Why would needing to purchase the hardware somehow change your opinion on
hating iOS for not being more open?

~~~
schoen
I think the idea is that the tying of the software and hardware is a
cornerstone of Apple's proprietary platform control efforts, so if you're
upset about that, you're likely to be upset about the other aspects too.

~~~
m3rc
Right, exactly... how would I stop being upset by being forced into buying
expensive hardware?

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replete
I've compared a load of new laptops on my spreadsheet:
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nnmI9pN9rBMBJHE1gqYA...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nnmI9pN9rBMBJHE1gqYAPfbnfJiZFdA8voah8O2nmNk/edit?usp=sharing)

Compares CPU Passmark score, GPU Flops, Display gamut Rec 2020.

Might be of interest.

Hackintosh laptops though are hit and miss. I'm not sure if Apple even have
kexts for modern Nvidia GPUs?

EDIT: There are no Macs packing Nvidia 10xx GPUs. So yes, there might be a
problem.

~~~
IMcD23
NVidia has kexts available for Mac that support pretty much all of their
modern cards.

~~~
replete
There are no Macs packing Nvidia 10xx GPUs.

I had problems in the past because I was using a Hackintosh with an AMD card
that didn't work with OSX at the time.

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cdnsteve
Just buy a used Mac, save some cash. I'm running a mid 2012 and the things
still super fast.

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DonHopkins
How wise and straightforward is it to run OS/X in a virtual machine on a
Windows laptop? How recent a version can you run, and what's the best setup to
use? What limitations does it have, and what kind of graphics cards can it
take advantage of, if any?

For my purposes, I only need to build apps with XCode, not do anything
graphically intensive.

~~~
selectodude
The entire UI is GPU accelerated, which isn't supported in a VM. It's pretty
painful to use for more than 2-3 minutes.

~~~
upbeat_addict
Have you used Beamoff to disable beam sync? Once it runs, the performance is
drastically improved.

~~~
DonHopkins
Wow I never heard of beam sync or beamoff -- great tip! Googling for that
found some other useful vm performance stuff.

Looks like it might only work in older operating systems since El Capitan is
based on Metal instead of OpenGL.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/comments/3l3mp2/anyone_kn...](https://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/comments/3l3mp2/anyone_know_how_to_turn_off_beamsync_on_el_capitan/)

[https://derflounder.wordpress.com/2014/12/13/improving-
yosem...](https://derflounder.wordpress.com/2014/12/13/improving-yosemite-vm-
performance-in-vmware-fusion/)

[http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/302424-yosemite-on-
vm...](http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/302424-yosemite-on-vmware-
unusable/)

[http://www.chromescreen.com/disable-beamsync-at-osx-
login/](http://www.chromescreen.com/disable-beamsync-at-osx-login/)

------
gxs
I realize this is not what you asked for, but the non-touch entry level
macbook pro is in apple stores now.

Go check it out before you take on the headache that is working on a
hackintosh.

It's still somehow better built than dell's XPS and the space gray color is
nice to boot. Since it's the "entry level", it doesn't have a touch strip and
instead has a full function row, including the esc key. It felt fast from my
first impressions and the aspect ratio is 16:10 (thanks for the correction),
which you still can't get on windows pc other than the surface book.

~~~
TillE
That's a decent machine, but amusingly the Macbook Air has more ports and
potentially a better keyboard. Depending on your actual needs, the 13" MBA may
be quite sufficient for $500 less.

I wouldn't really want it as a primary computer if you're _only_ doing iOS
development, but as an ultraportable that can run Xcode, sure.

~~~
gxs
Agree to disagree I guess.

I always buy hubs/docking stations anyway - you can run 2 5k displays off that
tiny macbook (don't think you can with the MBA, could be wrong) and
thunderbolt has good speed for all your peripherals.

For me personally the deal killer is the touchpad and aspect ratio. PC
touchpads are still mechanical and you still have to click on the bottom
2/3rds of the pad to get a crisp click. Similarly, there is only one 16:10 pc
laptop out there that I know of which is the surface book. A nice machine, but
I personally don't like the detachable/touch screen stuff yet.

------
edko
If you are a professional app developer (you make a living out of it) then
Hackintosh is a bad alternative. It can get your developer account, and apps,
banned by Apple. On top of that, you can get sued.

~~~
adamors
Provide sources.

Multiple acquittances have been working on custom built Hackintoshes for years
without _any_ issues from Apple.

~~~
emeraldd
Previous success does not mean it's a good or advisable idea. This is the kind
of thing companies will tolerate until they decide not too and then drop a
horde of lawyers on a few 'examples'.

~~~
jzig
I guess it's just a matter risk tolerance then.

------
xenihn
I would honestly just buy a used Oct 2013 15" MBP instead. A used one should
run you under $1000 now that the new MBPs are coming out.

I currently have one that I bought in 2014, and I can drive a 4k display (Dell
P2715Q) with a large storyboard file open in xcode, along with the laptop
display itself at the highest scaled resolution. I think this is a pretty good
benchmark for whether or not a system is good enough.

------
mattkevan
Don't know if it's the 'best' but I've got El Capitan working smoothly on my
second-hand Thinkpad T440. The trackpad and display are crap compared to a
MacBook Pro, but hey, it was less than a sixth of the price for similar specs.

Took about an evening of tinkering and reading the TonysMac86 forums (really
helpful community) to set up and has been trouble-free since. Sleep/wake works
with the lid and it even supports dual batteries. Battery life is good too.

Hackintoshing a laptop is harder than a custom-built desktop as you don't have
much choice over the hardware. For example often the internal wifi and
bluetooth cards aren't supported - I have to use a USB dongle on mine.
However, there's some good resources on TonysMac on which laptops are the most
compatible.

------
benmcnelly
Please, please don't kill me - I know there are people who love the Mac
Ecosystem (I have a macbook too!) and don't like linux, but I switched to Mint
Linux with Cinnamon Desktop, and its pretty darn great. For people who live in
containers, virtualenv, node, and many other types of dev, you will feel at
home in no time. I bet there is a slider of where the things you like about
mac go from unix like environment to "it just works" and if you are even a bit
on the "it just works" side, don't go with linux, it will be an adventure. A
worthy adventure, but maybe not profitable for everyone.

------
lucideer
If you're an existing Mac user, the recommendations here to "just get a Mac"
may be better, but I'll throw another possibility into the mix:

I ran OSX in VirtualBox for a good while in order to use some locked-in iOS
dev tools. It was slow, but that was largely just because my underlying
machine wasn't very new at the time, it was easy to install, and I never
encountered any stability issues. It would free you up to get the best machine
without worrying about hw compat.

Disclaimer: This was OSX Lion days. Have not tried recently. Ymmv.

------
Razengan
Well, considering that all iOS devices now have P3 Wide Color displays, you'll
need a computer with a wide color screen to accurately create and preview
content for iOS.

To my knowledge, aside from the new MacBooks, Retina iMacs and the new
Surfaces your only options would be external 10-bit-per-channel monitors, and
those can be expensive.

The Razer Blade Pro has a wider gamut too but as far as I know it's Adobe RGB
and not DCI-P3.

------
joenot443
I'll go against the grain here and say that I used a HP Probook 4530s as my
sole development 'Mac' while I was in high school and shipped three iOS apps
with it.

Was it time consuming to set it up? Yes. Did it break after most updates? Yes.

That said, when you're working as a dishwasher, a used $250 HP is much more
realistic than a $1300 Macbook.

After second year of university, I bought a 2015 MBP and haven't looked back.

------
Tepix
I'm getting a Dell XPS 13 9350 and will replace the wifi card with a DW1560.
The guide that explains the details about installing macOS on this machine is
at [https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/guide-dell-
xps-13-9350-si...](https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/guide-dell-
xps-13-9350-sierra.204730/)

~~~
finishingmove
Why replace the wifi card if you don't mind me asking?

~~~
Tepix
Apparently the wifi card comes with the laptop does not yet work with macOS.

Both are 802.11ac capable however. I think the DW1560 is a bit slower.

------
st3v3r
Just use the real Macbook. If you are honestly that upset about the touchbar
without having seen it at all, then buy a 2015 model.

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wadeanthony0100
As much as I love the idea of playing around with getting hackintosh-es
working, does anyone else feel like it's a little backwards for software
developers to use unlicensed software to produce (presumably) profitable
software? I'm all for hacking for fun, but doing it to make business seems
unethical. Just my $0.02...

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intrasight
I'm considering the same. But since you need a Mac to build a Hackintosh, I
decided to buy a used Mac for $500. I'll still probably build my Hackintosh,
but It'll be for fun hacking reasons. And it's a NUC so I don't expect it to
be too challenging.

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0xbadf00d
I would say a good start is tonymacx86 - Hugely valuable resource fro all
things hackintosh:

[https://www.tonymacx86.com/forums/laptop-
compatibility.114/](https://www.tonymacx86.com/forums/laptop-
compatibility.114/)

------
benologist
www.macstadium.com just rent one online, much easier!

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epanchin
Buddybuild if you don't want to use OSX

