
EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste - dsego
http://www.dw.com/en/eu-commission-plans-ban-on-plastic-waste/a-43949554
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ganzuul
I want to put 2D barcodes on trash-to-be. Then when you find it in nature you
should be able to trace it to when and where it was purchased. If this is one
of those 10% of users causing 90% of the problems - type situations this would
be an effective strategy to hold trashy people accountable.

~~~
jbob2000
You don’t even need to go that far, somebody has already studied where the
garbage comes from: [https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilderness-
resources/blogs...](https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilderness-
resources/blogs/ocean-plastic-rivers)

Summary: China and India.

We can and should curb our plastic use in the West, but there are 2 billion+
people on the other side of the world that don’t give a flying fuck. (Yeah
yeah, we polluted when we were developing too. But we barely had 100 million
people when that was happening. And no plastics)

~~~
ISL
One of the most powerful ways to lead is by example. If we can do the hard
work of figuring out how to get sustainability right, it will be easier to
help everyone else get on board.

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avar
> Curbing the use of plastic cups for beverages

I wonder what this will mean for events & festivals. E.g. Amsterdam has made
it a policy that big events (including normal bars when the event is going on)
must issue plastic cups to curb broken class everywhere. Will we have to go
back to glass, or drink our beer out of paper cups?

> as well as plastic food containers, such as the ones used for take-away.

I'm open to this, it sucks to have to throw so much crap away after ordering
take-away, but I haven't seen a container yet that would be suitable for e.g.
80 degree centigrade soups, stews etc. What are the alternatives that are
cheap enough for disposable take-away use?

> Producers of fishing gear — which accounts for 27 percent of beach litter —
> will be required to cover the costs of waste collection in ports.

I'm worried about how making manufacturers pay for something like this will
produce unintended externalities. I can also buy thin plastic lines that _wink
wink_ totally aren't intended for fishing. Won't it be trivial to avoid these
taxes?

> Each member state should use a deposit system or other measure in order to
> collect 90 percent of plastic bottles used in their country by 2025.

I wouldn't mind such a system where you e.g. get 1 EUR back for each bottle,
but it's going to have to be something like that. The current deposit fees on
plastic bottles are too low, once you're earning enough money it doesn't make
any financial sense to return them.

~~~
houshuang
At most festivals in Switzerland, you have a single kind of reusable plastic
cup, for which you pay a deposit of a few Euro. You can then hand it back at
any venue part of the festival and get the deposit back. Of course it requires
some dishwashing facilities, but it seems to work very well, everyone is used
to it, and it avoids massive heaps of garbage.

~~~
avar
We have these in Amsterdam too. I'll buy a beer with one of these, then by the
time I'm ready to leave the lines are so long that I think "fuck it" and throw
it in my bike saddlebag thinking I'll bring it back next year. It's not worth
it to stand 15 minutes in a line to get 2 EUR back.

But of course I forget about it and just buy a new one at the same festival
next year, and each festival will only accept their own branded cups.

So now I have a pile of these things sitting in my shed, there really needs to
be some ISO standard for these plastic pints and it be made illegal to not
accept ones from other festivals. I now have like 20 EUR worth of otherwise
worthless plastic crap I can't exchange or sell except once a year at specific
locations.

~~~
jasonkostempski
They're not branded with custom design for the event? Seems like something you
could easily sell if it were. Either way, I like your idea about a standard,
similar to TSA Approved beverage containers.

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siruncledrew
It's pretty insane that 90% of the plastic dumped into the ocean comes from 10
rivers (including many famous ones)[0]. Two are in Africa (the Nile and the
Niger) while the other eight are in Asia (the Ganges, Indus, Yellow, Yangtze,
Haihe, Pearl, Mekong and Amur).

What were once historically prominent rivers that greatly contributed to
agriculture and civilization are now disgusting cesspools of trash and
pollution.

[0] [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-
plas...](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-plastic-
tide-10-rivers-contribute-most-of-the-plastic-in-the-oceans/)

------
DuskStar
This seems a little too "signal, not help" to me. ~90% of plastic in the ocean
comes from 10 rivers [0] of which 8 are in Asia and two in Africa - so
reducing the use of plastic in Europe won't have any global impact and will
probably have a variety of unintended consequences. But plastic in the oceans
is a problem and so we must be seen to be doing something...

0: [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-
plas...](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-plastic-
tide-10-rivers-contribute-most-of-the-plastic-in-the-oceans/)

------
ldjb
It's important to consider that people with some disabilities rely on plastic
straws to be able to drink:

[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-
derbyshire-43879489...](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-
derbyshire-43879489/plastic-straws-call-for-government-to-rethink-policy)

Plastic straws and polystyrene plates are also common materials for arts and
crafts.

Whilst pollution is certainly an issue that must be tackled, banning
disposable plastic products does have its drawbacks. I'm not saying a ban
should not occur, but its implications should be considered.

~~~
maskros
s/plastic straws/straws/ ... there's nothing to prevent you from using paper,
waxed paper, or reusable metal drinking straws except a price increase.

~~~
ldjb
As was said in the video, ordinary paper disintegrates and metal straws can be
dangerous. Waxed paper straws could work, though.

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acd
Very happy about the EU plastic ban lets hope it gets passed. Plastic waste
which contains BPA bisphenol which is a weak estrogen and ends up in the
oceans. Fish eat the plastic waste, humans eat the fish and becomes infertile.

Plates can be made of paper, also cups can be made of paper.

Banning plastic makes it easy to avoid plastic waste in the oceans.

I hope we also ban all food packaging since a lot of that ends up in the ocean
and there is no need for plastic food packaging.

Bisphenol A of plastic
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A)

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vincnetas
EC press release : [http://europa.eu/rapid/press-
release_IP-18-3927_en.htm](http://europa.eu/rapid/press-
release_IP-18-3927_en.htm)

------
hartator
It’s worth noting that I’ve seen poor families in France reusing plastic forks
and knives. Like always, this kind of policy hurts the poor a lot more.

~~~
api
Environmental policy is probably the main factor that has driven a wedge
between progressives/liberals and the working class. Nearly all environmental
regulations are regressive when considered as taxes. The rich can afford to
pay more for cleaner energy, durable goods, recycling, and so on. The poor
cannot.

I am not saying that either concern is invalid. Environmental concerns are
real. I am simply pointing out a political problem that needs to be solved.

~~~
DmenshunlAnlsis
Environmental collapse also disproportionately hurts the poor. When a drought
strikes, they’re the first to starve. At least the pain inflicted by
regulations can be mitigated, while collapse leads to something like Libya.

~~~
api
I was not arguing otherwise. Whenever I bring up issues like this I get a lot
of "shoot the messenger."

My point was not that environmental concerns are wrong but that they do tend
to decrease the economic well being of poor and middle class people more
_right now_ vs. the status quo. That in turn tends to anger these classes of
people _right now_ , causing them to vote for people like Donald Trump. Trump,
a super-hard-right Republican, won largely because of working class
traditionally progressive economic concerns.

The poor also cannot afford the luxury of thinking about the future. When you
are poor your primary concern is getting out of poverty right f'ing now. Screw
the future. The rich on the other hand can sacrifice for the future because
they have abundance.

Try some grinding poverty and come back and tell me how much you care about
what happens in 100 years. Now try some grinding poverty with children. Tell
me how much you care about the great Pacific garbage patch after you watch
your kids suffer a bit.

This is why I think what I call "abstinence based" environmental policies are
doomed. I draw a deliberate analogy with right-wing abstinence-based sex-ed,
which also fails pretty reliably. Abstinence based environmental policy is any
attempt to solve environmental problems by preaching and shaming the poor and
middle class into reducing consumption for the sake of some future ideal that
might as well be heaven-and-hell as far as they are concerned here and now.

The only way we will create a world where we care about the future is to
elevate as many people as possible out of poverty. This means we must build
systems that create abundance now and try to figure out how to do so as
sustainably as possible. If people can't afford the luxury of caring about the
future, nothing serious will ever be done about massive problems like climate
change.

~~~
DmenshunlAnlsis
_Try some grinding poverty and come back and tell me how much you care about
what happens in 100 years. Now try some grinding poverty with children. Tell
me how much you care about the great Pacific garbage patch after you watch
your kids suffer a bit._

That’s a strong argument for ignoring the desperately poor where long term
survival is concerned, is that really the argument you meant to make?

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franzpeterstein
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17167261](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17167261)

