
Hong Kong 'Umbrella' protesters found guilty of public nuisance - kerng
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47863061
======
shawnz
Only tangentially related, but I saw a very upsetting video on Reddit
yesterday.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCOAbkTs_a4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCOAbkTs_a4)

In this video you see a Chinese woman being arrested for making online
comments about Xi Jinping. She says everything right and it doesn't matter,
they just take her anyways.

I don't know what point I'm trying to make other than that it's a very sad
state of affairs for Chinese people right now, and I feel for them.

~~~
swarnie_
I sometime wonder is heavy handed policing has always been common in major
countries and we didn't have the mass communication tools to share it or if
its a newer phenomenon

~~~
iygghnkufdv
Numerous countries in the 20th century (China, Soviet Union, Nazi Germany,
even USA) have at some point either locked their people away in concentration
camps, arrested them for dubious reasons, etc. Millions have been starved to
death with no way to defend themselves or grow food.

Such a world does not exist anymore of course just 70 years later, however the
culture in my opinion persists-- local authorities continue to feel they have
the right to force and intimidation for even the most pedestrian of
investigations now, such as for comments made online, rather than for murder.

~~~
keiferski
> Such a world does not exist anymore of course just 70 years later

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-
education_camps](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps)

~~~
jialutu
Learnt from the best:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp)

~~~
keiferski
Sorry, but this is blatant whataboutism. Guantanamo Bay is a tragedy and
deserves all the criticism it gets, but:

\- At its height, Guantanamo Bay had about 250 prisoners. It now has 41.

\- Camps in Xinjiang are estimated to hold "hundreds of thousands" of
prisoners.

They are not on the same scale whatsoever. If you wanted to make a comparison
to American systems of imprisonment, the actual prison system itself is a far
better (worse) example.

~~~
jialutu
For starters, did I condone any of them being justified? Me making a statement
about Gauntanamo Bay does not automatically imply I am defending the re-
education camps in China.

So, here is a very basic lesson in maths: If a => b is true, it does not
necessarily mean b => a is true.

Besides, does America not also have one of the highest incarceration rates in
the worlds?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_ra...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate)

I mean China has a lot of catching up with America (just order by per
100,000):
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate)

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ngcc_hk
None of them are umbrella protestor core. They are OC which the Umbrella core
may respect but sort of ignore. The localist and the young one are not these.
Those have been jailed in previous sentence.

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devoply
What a disaster handing back Hong Kong to China without a plebiscite asking
Hong Kong people what they actually wanted.

~~~
ElBarto
Hongkong was taken away from China with cannons and drugs.

Handing it back was the right thing to do legally (for the new territories),
morally, and historically.

It's sad to see people effectively praising European imperialism in 2019,
reminds me of the old "civilising the natives" antics.

Edit since I'm being prevented from relying to comments:

There is no regression. Those protesters were charged under a colonial-era
law.

Hongkong did not even have the Legislative Council under the British, which
was created it as a 'gift' to the Chinese.

From the popular vote, it seems to me that the "pro-Beijing" camp has a
majority, so that's what "the people want"...

Let's be realistic and put things in perspective, shall we.

Edit 2:

To the person who replied:

> Meanwhile, during those 100 years, a new, distinct, non Chinese culture
> developed. Hong Kong people speak a different language than mainland, have
> different food, culture references and desires.

HK's culture is as Chinese as can be. In fact it is more traditional Chinese
than the mainland. They speak Chinese (Cantonese is 'Chinese', it's the
language spoken in Guangdong province hence why it is spoken in HK, 'Canton'
is how Guangzhou used to be called...), they eat Chinese. It would be good to
know a minimum about a topic before commenting.

~~~
EliRivers
I thought HK spoke Cantonese? At least, until the PRC enforces Mandarin. It's
a tactic with a long history - replace a people's language with your own.

~~~
kweks
Correct. Cantonese and English are official languages. Outside of commerce and
the central districts, it's definitely Cantonese with a smattering of English
- which is quite nice.

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mruts
I think colonization (at least the latter parts, maybe WWI and after) has been
unjustly demonized. I live in a previously colonized country, and let me tell
you, The Germans and then the British knew how to run this country better than
the locals ever did, even today. For 30 years after independence, the people
literally starved under communism. And the president of the time is still
regarded a hero, despite people remembering the mass famine!

~~~
powerapple
good, let's go ahead and promote colonism. Imaging if Germans won the war and
rule the world. Yep! What a world we are living in now!

~~~
laHiesh1
I think it's important to draw a line between positive and negative
colonialism. The British were legally given HK for 99 years, built
infrastructure there, and turned it into a very wealthy territory that enjoyed
many freedoms they would not otherwise have if it were a Chinese territory.

Even today, there is a significant number of people within HK that want to go
back to British rule. Why deny what the people want?

~~~
gcb0
because they are part of a ruling elite? I don't know anything, but that's
usually the case

