
Adobe confirms: no Flash for Chrome on Android - shawndumas
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2012/02/adobe-confirms-no-flash-for-chrome-on-android.ars
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EnderMB
I have a Galaxy Nexus, and I know this will be an unpopular opinion, but I
find Flash works pretty well on the device.

Granted, I only use it for video content on sites like the BBC, but the
underlying functionality is fine.

I don't think Flash has a future on mobile devices, but HTML5-based solutions
aren't up to scratch for general use yet, so I don't think Adobe should throw
in the towel just yet.

~~~
51Cards
Agreed as well. I often make use of Flash on both my tablet and my Nexus One.
The times I notice it most is when I'm using the new Firefox Mobile and I have
to copy the URL and paste it into the stock browser to get to flash content.
That tedious process makes me realize I do it a lot more than I expected I
would. I am very very disappointed by this decision.

~~~
eschulte
Sure this is a temporary inconvenience, but you're just feeling the growing
pains of the web leaving behind flash (yes everywhere, not just mobile) which
simplifies the space and long-term is a good thing for developers and
consumers of web content.

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mvip
Flash is the new Internet Explorer. I remember a point in time when it was
painful to use browsers other than IE, because so many developers took the
easy way out and only supported IE (and their managers didn't know/care).
Those days are of course over (well, mostly at least).

Flash is, or at least used to be, the easy way out. People used it because it
was easier than HTML5. Hence, when a company asks for a quote on an
interactive site they often went for the Flash-version because it was cheaper
(and not fully knowing the drawbacks).

Apple forced a change in the market. All of the sudden, these people who
ordered the new project in Flash realized that they couldn't view the content
on their shiny new toy.

You might argue the ability of using Flash as an option. I see the fact that
both Apple (and now Google) have actively taken a stance against Flash as
something good for the society as a whole. It's a step towards better, and
more open standards.

This isn't to say that Flash is completely useless. Not too long ago, it
wasn't even possible to do interactive things with HTML. At that point, Flash
was the only option. Luckily, those days are over.

~~~
tomkin
> People who used it because it was easier than HTML5.

Having developed both HTML5 and Flash applications, your use of the word _was_
shows a bit of ignorance when it comes to Flash. It is _still_ easier in Flash
to do a high-velocity, interactive site that works across multiple browsers.
If you think differently, you're not actually doing the work.

Armchair critics of Flash just regurgitate what they perceive is truth –
_HTML5's abilities are on par with Flash_. But it isn't true. To be clear, my
support is _with HTML5_ , not Flash. But as someone who works with both
_daily_ , I'd be pretty biased if I went around telling people that HTML5 is a
trouble-free alternative to Flash. That would be a pretty big lie.

> Luckily, those days are over.

They are far from over. People cite YouTube HTML5 player without considering
how vlogs are actually recorded, processed and uploaded through Flash. As the
viewer, it's a nice luxury to say it can all be done through HTML5, but as a
producer of content you'd have a different opinion. We all know about Web
Audio API[1] and Capture API[2]. No need to mention how they are X years away.
They aren't here today.

[1] <http://www.w3.org/TR/audioproc/> [2] <http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-
capture-api-20100401/>

~~~
notatoad
I interpreted the _was_ to mean it was an option. Flash used to be the easiest
option. Now with the runtime not being present on apple devices and it's total
demise imminent, it's still just as easy to use but it's no longer a viable
option.

~~~
tomkin
If you're an iOS user, HTML5 is a magical place where you can do anything –
outside of iOS, it's hit or miss. And if it's hit or miss, it might as well be
Flash.

Remember that a client's perspective is often _neat, cool and fun_ rather than
_works on all devices the exact same_.

Flash will die when HTML5 signs the cheques that it's collective evangelicals
cash.

~~~
posabsolute
Can you expand about what is neat with HTML(5) on ios? personally the only
thing I saw was desolation and poor performance. I rarely saw anything neat
cool and fun in html5 for ios..

I surely missed something I guess. I think it's a shame we are not going to
have flash on android tablets, it's somewhere it could have perform well.

~~~
tomkin
I agree. Problem is, this Flash vs. HTML5 rhetoric has people mixing in "it
can do everything Flash does" and "Flash doesn't work on mobile" leading the
implication that if you want to do an elaborate, highly interactive
experience, it'll work on mobile and it'll be _better than Flash_. You see how
self-serving that argument is?

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casca
Hats off to Apple. They managed to take a technology that was entrenched as a
standard and kill it simply by refusing to support it on their mobile
platform.

For years people have been complaining about the lack of IOS flash support,
but the true impact has been to hasten the move to HTML5 and to kill a
proprietary, bloated, bug-filled technology.

~~~
tjogin
I honestly don't think Apple set out to kill flash. They just chose to not
support Flash, like they also don't support a bunch of other browser plugins.
All of them, in fact.

Had others not made such a big fuss about it, Apple's mobile devices would
simply _silently_ not support Flash. But everybody made such a big stink about
it so they had to vocally _explain_ their motivations for not supporting Flash
specifically, making Apple some kind of Flash opponent.

------
ugh
Didn't Adobe already say that they will no longer develop Flash for mobile
devices – so isn't this kind of self-evident?

~~~
ootachi
Google could have implemented it. Firefox Mobile Nightly (which is essentially
a completely different browser from the currently-shipping Firefox Mobile),
for example, implements the necessary support to run Flash on Ice Cream
Sandwich and on Gingerbread and below. It's just a matter of exposing the
plugin hooks.

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mcav
This should be old hat at this point. Flash is done on mobile. (Had it ever
begun?)

~~~
starwed
Anytime there was a post about firefox mobile on /r/reddit, folk came out of
the woodwork saying they would never even consider using it until it supported
flash. (Which, interestingly, it now does.)

I have no fucking idea what people find attractive about mobile flash (maybe
games?) but it certainly seems to be a thing.

~~~
untog
_I have no fucking idea what people find attractive about mobile flash_

Being able to watch video?

~~~
Karunamon
A massive percentage of the internet's video consumption (YouTube and related
sites) is already served by HTML5.

~~~
Jimmie
You are wrong. Html5 for Youtube is still an opt-in trial, unless you are on a
platform without flash.

As for related sites, while most I frequent seem to keep their files in .mp4
format rather than .flv the players are all flash based. Probably because it's
easier to serve ads.

~~~
justincormack
Yes but mobile is a platform without flash, and is a large amount of youtube
views. Not sure if you can opt in to flash youtube on Android.

------
poppysan
I will be sad to see no flash support. I mostly use it for gaming on my tablet
and galaxy s II and have had absolutely no issues. My mom got a transformer
for Christmas and has been able to play all of her Facebook games (90% of her
internet usage). It is really a bad move that directly affects ppl like my mom
and other casual gamers.

------
jseims
As someone who works with both Flash and HTML5, this news makes me sad.

Flash just works for much better. There are no cross-browser issues (except
those that don't support it at all -- thanks, Apple). And ActionScript is a
better language for building complex apps than JavaScript.

~~~
Karunamon
The main problem with Flash is that it's completely proprietary, and
therefore, as 4chan would say, OH EXPLOITABLE.

Worse is the fact that Adobe has been sitting with their thumbs wedged in
their arses for months, in some cases, while known vulnerabilities were being
exploited in the wild.

It's hard to imagine a better argument for moving away from closed
technologies like this.

------
xtc
I find it disappointing that Adobe has complete control over the Flash/mobile-
media market in this regard. Flash is great in all, but leaving up the choice
to Adobe seems counter-intuitive, especially when the browser will most likely
be widely used.

~~~
j45
The flash format is open source now. It happened a few years ago.

Anyone can build their own flash player, even for mobile.

What folks are commenting on is Adobes not releasing an official player for
the mobile. Desktop isn't going anywhere because it plays AIR/Flex apps which
also have been open sourced.

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j45
Can't wait for Adobe's HTML5 authoring tools to come out with their HTML5
acquisitions.

Until then, HTML5 is still becoming more performant when building immersive
environments in it, which Flash already kind of does in mobile. Guess we'll
have a few years of toughing it out until then.

------
ryandvm
Thank God.

~~~
hahaiamatwork
Why? Can you present a coherent argument against enabling flash that isn't
just "I don't want to use it so nobody else should be allowed to"?

~~~
mberning
Coherent argument?

Sucks battery

Poor usability on touch interfaces

Memory hog

Buggy, leads to browser crashes

~~~
51Cards
The battery argument is just silly. Playing HD movies on a phone will suck
battery faster but we don't remove the user's ability to do that.

As for the others, I use Flash frequently on my phone and none of them have
occurred for me in the last year or so. I have Flash set to load on demand.
It's not about Flash being the future (it's not), or even continued
development in it. It's about access to existing content here and now and for
some users that is a continued need.

Edit: One quick edit since HN doesn't seem to want to let me reply to the
below. I think the crux of it is that it removes the _option_ to access
content... key word _option_. If it's not the default, etc, that's fine... but
you're placing the disadvantages of Flash over my ability to get to content I
feel is important. The "no Flash for you" argument hinges on saying "our
opinion that Flash is bad is more important than your opinion that you want to
see the content you desire, even if it's not available in other formats". And
for the users like myself that like to retain that _option_ , we feel very
strongly the other way.

~~~
talmand
I agree, most of the arguments from individuals I've seen against Flash are
simply, "I don't like it therefore I want to stop others from using it".

I find it interesting that one of the leading arguments against Flash is that
it's a proprietary plugin that is not "open". So clearly the solution to this
is to close off the option of using it, doesn't seem like a very "open"
attitude. I thought it was about choice but I guess it was wrong.

~~~
gurkendoktor
> So clearly the solution to this is to close off the option of using it

Apple did not secretly turn off a global flag "allowFlash = NO;" - they did
not _put work_ into supporting it. These are completely different things.

~~~
talmand
If you are referring to them not allowing the plugin to work inside their
browser for iOS then I agree, it is different. I have no problem with that
choice that they made, it's their system. But, it was possible to build apps
for iOS that used Flash development tools and Apple directly put a stop to it.
Therefore, they did put some work into that aspect even though all it amounted
to was changing the EULA and banning apps from the app store. In my opinion
that was an effort to prevent development tools they did not control from
entering their market; that's not an "open" attitude.

But, anyway, I wasn't referring to Apple in my comment. I was referring to
individuals who present the argument I described; people who are all for
"open" as long as it involves software they want you to use.

