
How H-1B Visas Are Screwing Tech Workers - uladzislau
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/02/silicon-valley-h1b-visas-hurt-tech-workers
======
makmanalp
Friends, I'll approach this from a different perspective, if you'll please
take a moment to lend me your ears, and hear my plight.

=============

> But in reality, most of today's H-1B workers don't stick around to become
> the next Albert Einstein or Sergey Brin

I recently wrote a letter to a Congressperson about this, regarding the recent
House Judiciary Committee Hearing on Immigration Reform. The same point was
brought up there too. Do these people think it's _easy_ to start a company on
an H-1B? It's near impossible. I'd know, because I've looked into it with a
brilliant lawyer. Let's take a look at the factors.

* H-1B costs around 4-5k, and the result of the application is uncertain. Would you want an uncertain cofounder? Would investors?

* H-1B workers must be paid prevailing wage. For a programmer in Cambridge, MA, the cheapest level-1 codemonkey _must_ be paid around $55k/yr. How many of us started out paying ourselves that much money? Or any money for that matter?

* A document called the Neufeld Memo from 2008 states that the H-1B sponsor and worker need an employer-employee relationship. This means that the company, that you helped start, must have the ability to fire you whenever it wants. You must relinquish your rights to control your employment in that regard. How would you feel about this?

* For similar reasons, owning majority stake in your company is nearly impossible, and owning any stake is generally frowned upon and investigated further by authorities.

* Work visas are per-company and per-job. You want to do some consulting on the side to keep the purse full? Tough luck, unless you also are able to get an H-1B from there. (hint: it's tough.)

If you had all these limitations, how likely is it that you'd be the next
Sergey Brin? Is it any wonder that H-1Bs are not creating jobs for Americans?
The reason for all this is that the H-1B was created for BigCo.

==========================

> ComputerWorld revealed last week that the top 10 users of H-1B visas last
> year were all offshore outsourcing firms such as Tata and Infosys. Together
> these firms hired nearly half of all H-1B workers, and less than 3 percent
> of them applied to become permanent residents.

Again, the H-1B system surely favors BigCO. The reason for this is because it
was created for BigCO, and it was advanced by constant lobbying by BigCO.
There is no equivalently large lobby, however, for the bright immigrant
entrepreneurs that America wants. Brin himself is probably lobbying for the
H-1B, as Google is in the top 10 H-1B employers.

"Less than 3% of them applied to become permanent residents". Honestly! This
makes me angry. Do people think they didn't _want_ to become permanent
residents? Are we this out of touch? This is because they can't decide to
apply to become permanent residents themselves! They need sponsorship for PERM
(green card) applications too! But the companies don't want to take this
costly and time consuming (6+ years for Indians) route often, when they can
just replace them.

==========================

There are more glaring things in the article, but I want to keep my point
clear. Do I think H-1Bs are great? NO! God no. But calls to ban it are a bit
overzealous. Please, have some compassion.

People seem to forget that H-1Bs are the only way to legal immigration for
people who don't have ties to the US, or people like me whose American parents
haven't lived in the US for a long time. Ban it, and the likes of me are
screwed.

I hope that there comes a better alternative that doesn't serve corporate
interests as much, that supports foreign founders who create jobs for
Americans. Something that raises the bar for potential applicants and lowers
the bar for consultancy-farms. I'm hopeful about the STEM visa. I like the
startup visa. I think there are tons of flaws to be fixed in the system.

Please, consider what will happen to us, just as you consider what will happen
to you. I understand that America must think of its own first. But consider
how immigrants created entire industries, ___when they were allowed to do so_
__. Heck, most Americans are descendants of immigrants. If you call for the
ban of the H-1B, please also call, twice as vigorously, for the creation of
something better.

~~~
tlgreen
>> But calls to ban it are a bit overzealous.

No one has said anything about banning H1B in this thread. You're misdirecting
us from the real issue which is that H1B program is about to be EXPANDED. This
will accelerate the damage to the job market in places like NY/NJ/CA/TX where
most H1Bs are placed. The amount of H1Bs that were previously admitted in a
decade will now be admitted in slightly more than 2 years. What do you think
that will do to salaries (yours included)?

>> But consider how immigrants created entire industries, when they were
allowed to do so. Heck, most Americans are descendants of immigrants.

You are once again misdirecting. If you consider the statistics, a 3%
citizenship rate is indicative that the H1B program is not really a
immigration program at all -- it is actually a guest worker program.

What's wrong with that? Guest workers who have limited freedoms, are tied to
their jobs for legal status, and can be sent back to India on their employer's
whim are not really free market participants or citizens -- they are
indentured servants or modern day slaves to the corporations that hold their
visas. It's then unsurprising that this special class of workers lowers market
salaries, or that expanding the number of people in this special class will
lower salaries.

>> Do I think H-1Bs are great? NO! God no.

You admit that H1B is a awful visa, but you don't want to rock the boat and do
anything about it. You are not actively campaigning to improve conditions,
instead you are here misdirecting and essentially supporting the expansion of
the H1B program in its current form. I'm sorry, but that's a mistaken attitude
and I can't get behind that.

~~~
makmanalp
I think you read me wrong. I agree with everything you said, but you need to
take your thought process one step further.

You are indeed right about the banning - in this thread. This issue, however,
has been coming up recently (3-4 major articles in the last 45 days or so) and
there is a growing "let's get rid of it" sentiment, but without proposals for
an alternative. If you take a peek at my conclusion again, you'll see that
this is what I'm asking for. An alternative.

>If you consider the statistics, a 3% citizenship rate is indicative that the
H1B program is not really a immigration program at all -- it is actually a
guest worker program.

Read again please, I agree with this exact point in the second section of my
comment. I made the point that it's not the worker's choice, it's BigCo's
choice. The system is set up to serve temp-workers to BigCo. I've supported
this exact idea in the 5 bullet points I've made above that. What I disagree
with was the implication in the original article that guest workers didn't
_want_ to naturalize. "less than 3 percent of them applied to become permanent
residents" makes it sound that way. They can't apply themselves!

I don't need lecturing about how guest workers have limited freedoms. I know
firsthand! I'm not too keen on servitude myself! It's not that I don't think
rocking the boat is a good idea, but I'm wary and scared. Do you know how many
alternative visa program / immigration reform bills have been proposed so far?
And how many have been passed? And how many of those have been bills that
support the current long-term temporary worker style?

As my wise lawyer says, "I'll believe it when I see it".

I'm afraid that we're going to kick this system over, in favor of _no_ system.
And then no alternative is going to be agreed upon (in the Senate and House),
or the alternative is going to be heavily lobbied yet again, to create a
similar system, entrenching it even more.

Is this fear not justified?

~~~
tlgreen
Once again you are mixing in logical arguments with emotional ones, and using
emotion to override logical arguments and ultimately support an unjust status
quo.

You agree that changes need to happen. So why not lobby for the changes that
you want to see? Why lobby for the status quo or the expansion of the current
broken program?

From your comment, why not lobby for these:

1\. Employers should NOT have the right to send people back within 30 days if
they eliminate a position. Instead, the person should have the right to look
for another job as long as the visa period has not expired.

2\. Employers should not be involved in the green card application process --
people should apply for a green car on their own, after X years of stay.

Why not have a real change agenda instead of sniping at non-existing arguments
(they'll ban H1B!) or adding support to the idea that being exploited by
BigCos is the only way things can be?

------
DamnYuppie
Being in IT since 1997 I definitely agree with this. I have seen way to many
job postings for positions that want a great deal of experience and well below
market pay. Eventually these get filled by H1-B visa holders.

Overall I see H1-B visas as a means of companies to suppress wages of domestic
IT workers. I know entirely way too many good software engineers and
developers looking for jobs for there to be a "shortage".

That being said I am very aware that my comment like the rest of the comments
is anecdotal. I am hopeful more objective numbers can be found that will allow
us to have a more informed conversation on this.

~~~
mikeash
I have way too much trouble finding good developers to hire for there not to
be a shortage. I wonder whose anecdotes are correct.

~~~
DamnYuppie
At what price point? If you are looking for good developers at or near the
"market" you will probably not find them. Anyone who has been in the industry
for awhile and is very competent will know they are generally worth more.

~~~
netcan
Under that definition there is no such thing as a shortage.

~~~
DamnYuppie
That is the point I was trying to make. I don't believe their is a true
shortage of talented workers, but I do believe large companies state that
there is as a means to drive down wages. H1-B Visa just happen to be the handy
hammer they use to do it with.

~~~
netcan
"Shortage" in an economy is expressed as higher prices. In almost any cases
you will be able to find more workers if you are willing to pay an unlimited
amount. There is no way of determining the "correct" price. The reverse is
also true. More potential employees in the marketplace lowers salaries.

If you take "you could find employees at a higher salary" as a proof that the
shortage doesn't exist you'll virtually always have that proof. Under that
definition shortages don't exist which feels like some sort of semantic
trickery.

------
lisperforlife
I am an Indian here. I have heard horror tales from TCS employees on how they
are given "on-site" experience. Mostly it is a portrayed as a favor done by
the management to the employee. You have to earn the on-site opportunity which
involves a great deal of kissing people's rears. It is mostly not about the
talent you have. One of the guys who had gone on-site on one such occasion had
told me how the organization billed him as an Expert Oracle consultant while
he was told to study oracle while he was boarding the flight. It is true that
they get paid a pittance when compared to US nationals. A developer with 5
years of experience makes about $2.5k a month. They usually subsist on Taco
Bells, McD burgers and so on. On the other hand many indians prefer this, as
it still works out better than if they had stuck to the indian job. In fact,
in many family circles you are not considered a human if you are working in IT
and do not have any "on-site experience". Most these folks are completely
dependent on the organization that they work for and are willing to fight for
it tooth and nail to defend it even if the organization is holding them under
a sort of an indentured servitude. There are a few genuinely smart hackers but
those are far and few in between. Most of these organizations are as
dysfunctional as the companies that they consult for.

~~~
mgkimsal
_In fact, in many family circles you are not considered a human if you are
working in IT and do not have any "on-site experience"_

I'm probably too independently minded, but I'm not sure I could be bothered to
give a rat's ass about what my family thought of me with respect to my job or
how I live my life. If I'm working, keeping a roof over my family's head,
enjoying what I do and getting better in my profession... tough cheese if
someone in my family doesn't 'consider me human' - that says far more about
them than me.

~~~
piesauce
This is a cultural thing. In India, what is spoken around in family circles
means a lot.

~~~
mgkimsal
Perhaps aspects of any culture which focus on shaming people and making them
feel like less than human should be de-emphasized or ignored.

------
desigooner
Another piece of recycled fear-mongering garbage.

From all the people I know around here who're on an H1B, the salaries are
quite on par with US nationals. I do admit that I don't know anyone working
for the companies named in the article (TCS, Infosys).

The issue that needs more discussion is why not let US-educated non-immigrants
have an easier path to Permanent Residency vs. letting them leave the country
to start companies back in their homeland.

~~~
vignesh_vs_in
The salaries people receive with H1-B on those companies are $60k to
$70k/Year. And they are billed at $100k/year to the client.

I would say the pay is same as Americans working along with them.

The reason many companies are off-shoring to India is that there are more
people with mix of domain and technical knowledge in India.

~~~
pawelwentpawel
_Top 10 users of H-1B visas last year were all offshore outsourcing firms such
as Tata and Infosys. Together these firms hired nearly half of all H-1B
workers, and less than 3 percent of them applied to become permanent
residents._

I'm a little bit confused in here. Is it the same 65k visa cap for Europe and
India? Does that mean that Tata and Infosys have taken half of it and people
who they hired weren't even working in US?

I didn't squeeze into the last year's visa quota and decided to stay in UK
(hearing - "if you reapply we might get a visa for you in a year" is not very
encouraging). From what I heard, getting H1B is becoming quite of a race
against time as the places are getting filled out quickly. I think I know why
now.

~~~
vignesh_vs_in
It is a per year limit. Most H1-Bs return back to India within a year and a
new person will be sent to fill in the same position next year.

That's why most people never get PR. The main reason is not to short charge
the client, but to give chance to other workers in India, cause most companies
pay them only $5k to $14k/per year back in India(That's the market rate in
India). There is a rat race where people have to fight to fly to US or other
western countries so that they can earn 10X more.

~~~
edderly
> Most H1-Bs return back to India within a year and a new person will be sent
> to fill in the same position next year.

That sounds wrong. The period of the H1-B visa stay is three years.

------
jbooth
_Yet if tech workers are in such short supply, why are so many of them
unemployed or underpaid? According to the Economic Policy Institute (EPI),
tech employment rates still haven't rebounded to pre-recession levels. And
from 2001 to 2011, the mean hourly wage for computer programmers didn't even
increase enough to beat inflation._

I think anyone who is actually any good at programming could disagree with
that statement.

There are 2 problems with H-1Bs:

1) Body shops in northern NJ bringing mediocre talent here, lying on their
resumes to get them placed, and then paying them 1/10 of what they're billed
as indentured servants.

2) Not enough visas for qualified people, partially because of 1.

~~~
gms
What's ironic is that these body shops are mostly non-American companies
(usually Indian ones that hire Indians).

~~~
jbooth
Yeah. I work with several very talented indians, and hear on a regular basis
about their visa woes. People who've paid taxes in this country for 10 years,
raising kids here, the only reason they're not citizens is because the process
takes too damn long. They're on H-1Bs and deserve to be citizens, so it
touches a nerve when I hear H-1B described as some 'dey tuk ur jawbs' system.

If you're being outcompeted by the incompetent body shop employees, you need
to step up your game rather than try to restrict the labor market.

~~~
armored_mammal
There may be some body shops with incompetent people, but I think there are
plenty of competent H1-B holders.

The proper framing is that their visa can be held over their head to extract
14 hour days 6 or 7 days a week and other working conditions and salaries that
Americans would not accept or be able to compete with (for good reason).

~~~
gms
The US government actually sets generous price floors on what H1-B's can be
paid to prevent this sort of thing (for better or for worse). An H1-B
application specifying a salary that is lower than said floor would be
rejected.

------
luckymoney
I register today just to say this TL;DR: it sucks being here on visa. Even if
I want to be a US-citizen and I contribute like a US-citizen, they still make
sure I'm just a second-class in here.

I am a F-1 Visa Vietnamese student that recently got a pretty good offer in a
big corp. I am really tired of being treated like half-resident person. While
I do all of my duty (paying taxes), I never receive the benefits of being an
resident. First there was a out-of-state tuition for every public university
in the US. For over 5 years in school, I've seen many of my friends run out of
money because of this "premium" price we pay.

Now, some of us try to work to support our premium tuition, but we are not
permitted to work outside of school. As a result, most of us would have to
work illegally in some Asian restaurant, usually with under-minimal wage and
no tips. I understand they stop us from getting a job to protect American.
However, from what I observe, those minimal-wage jobs which could not be taken
by international students will be taken by illegal immigrant anyway. So it
puts the US government in a lose-lose situation: those jobs won't return to
American citizen, and they lose some of the taxes. Maybe they should look at
others country, such as UK (allowed to work up to 20h), or Australia(allowed
to work in controlled manner)... and rethink.

The only way you can work, is to get a job in your college with minimal wage
or to get an OPT. I've had a job on campus in which I design a website for
dorm using bottle.py and backbone.js for... $9.5/hour. Before tax. An OPT is a
program where you can work outside of your college for one year, but the job
has to fit your major. I got my internship with EMC by OPT.

Now, although we do not have the benefits of being residents, we still have to
do our duty while we are in here. I have to pay taxes like everyone else. I
just finish doing my tax for last year. With one internship and an on-campus
job, I fall in the second braket of tax, although I did pay a lot more for my
education. We also do not have credit cards as no-one trusts us. I just got my
frist creditcard after 6 years being here :).

Now, after 6 years of suffering, it finally pays off for me to have a offer
for a big corp and be an h1-b visa. I can asure you that they pay me very
competitively. However, it is still pretty damn hard to become a US-citizen
from here. The process is lengthy, and sometime depends on luck. Not to
mention if I want to bring my wife to the US, my wife will not be able to work
at any form, not even on college campus.

~~~
wil421
Be grateful many people don't have these opportunities. We all pay the same
for tuition if weren't not from that state. I've suffered working in a
restaurant for the past 6 years and low rate college pay jobs. At least we can
still afford tuition when a lot of people can't or don't even have the option
to go to school.

------
c0mpute
Indian here, and I have worked on a H1-B with one of the out-sourcers
(Infosys/Wipro likes). I think the article has some truth and a lot of crud.
It is important to understand the context first.

What you can say about technology right now in USA, there are two large
disjoint islands. There is the silicon valley kinds of "cool"/startup
technology and then there is run of the mill "IT" for Bank/Insurance/Big-Non-
IT technology. Outsourcers go after the latter kind and in fact can only go
after the latter kind. Their premise is to hire really below average
"Engineers" in India, and expect them to just learn the tricks of the trade to
replace/take over another run-of-the mill IT job.

The point is, if your day job is just about maintaining/coding something mind
numbing, with no real value add or just being a cog in the wheel in some Big-
Co that has nothing to do with technology, you can expect someone to do your
job much cheaper. Probably the quality will dip, but then the Big-Co hardly
cares about its software right?

Whereas, if you look at the stuff being done in the "valley like" companies,
you won't find those outsourced developers. You will still find smart Indians
on H1, but then the non-linearity of their talent is at play. Although, I have
seen valley companies outsource their QA (manual testing).

I think it is important that one keeps working hard on moving from the second
island to the first, no matter who it is (American or otherwise). There is
nothing new about this... we have seen this happen to manufacturing. It has
happened to web design - Go to elance and you will find at least 20:1 ratio of
some Indian firm to US firm. All of them compete at the low-end of the scale.

It is very hard to secure a comfortable life in that lower-end of the
technology pipeline living here in USA.

~~~
Samharnett
I'm a journalist doing a story about H1B visas for public radio. I think you
have a very interesting perspective and would like to speak with you about
your experience. You can reach me at Samharnett@gmail.com

------
ajiang
Just an interesting note to point out that the man who's wife spoke with Obama
did get a lot of calls / interest from companies across the country, but
because of a custody agreement needs to stay in North Texas, which I'd be
willing to bet contributes much more to his difficulties finding a job than
H-1B visas.

~~~
opinali
> because of a custody agreement needs to stay in North Texas

Wow, pretty bad case to blame immigrants.

As a father I can sympathize with the guy, it should be hard having to choose
between a decent job offer and the ability to see your children every day. But
mobility is one important factor in the job market, you don't always get to
choose where to live while advancing your career (unless maybe if you're a
rock star and telecommuting is viable), especially in STEM areas that have
most jobs in large metros or startup/high-tech hubs.

------
asanwal
We're a startup and have hired 2 (and soon to be 3) folks on H1B visas. These
were folks who got their Masters degrees here, who are brilliant and who'd
have otherwise left.

While I don't dispute that there are holes in the program and abuse that
happens, it has enabled us to find some folks for our team who have put us as
a company on a different trajectory.

Disclaimer: data point of one.

~~~
cema
Thank you, by the way. (Sincerely.) The more great people from around the
world stay here, the better we all will be.

------
arbuge
"My husband has an engineering degree with over ten years of experience," the
Fort Worth resident told the president during a web chat hosted by the social
network Google+. "Why does the government continue to issue and extend H-1B
visas when there are tons of Americans just like my husband with no job?"

There's engineers and then there's engineers. If he could code (or was
interested in coding) fluently in modern web environments, I suspect he'd have
no problem finding a job at all...

~~~
mycodebreaks
Her husband is semiconductor engineer. I am sure he wouldn't code in modern
web environments.

However, there is nothing wrong in the way Mr. Obama replied. Watch the video
to get how article kind of distorts that fact.

~~~
arbuge
One should learn and adpt to the world's conditions. I'm an ex-semiconductor
engineer who took up the web myself. Far easier to start a business with
little capital.

------
armored_mammal
I think the way H1-B visa holders are basically beholden chattel to a specific
enterprise is especially repugnant.

Anyone who reads through job listings for engineers (all types, as in real
engineers) and programmers will also conclude that many job descriptions and
salaries are designed so that a) there are practically zero people who will
match the 'minimum' requirements, despite the fact that most of the
deficiencies candidates are likely to have can be solved by 3 months or less
of training, and b) if there were any Americans with the actual qualifications
expressed, they would never work for the listed salary.

It's also worth noting, the hidden secret to getting cheap developers in the
US is to be based somewhere that doesn't have a huge tech hub.

If you base yourself in moderate size cities you'll find a hidden field of
competent applicants who will take salaries close to $50k a year just because
there are few jobs in mainstream America that aren't Java or .Net unless they
move to a tech hub (people often do not want to live in NYC or SF, at any
cost). And 50k in a region they like with a tech they don't hate is better
than moving. On average.

I should know. I'm a competent (but not end of the world amazing jock rock
star hipster) developer getting paid 50k a year somewhere in America that is
distinctly not New York or California. And my company pretty much has me
locked in because there are pretty much no other businesses or shops in town
that use Javascript or Python or other similar common open source languages
instead of .Net or Java (or PHP). (Obviously not an issue of technical
ability, but language taste.)

~~~
untog
_I think the way H1-B visa holders are basically beholden chattel to a
specific enterprise is especially repugnant._

As an H1B holder on his third job in the US, I can tell you that we aren't
actually beholden to any employer.

~~~
armored_mammal
Probably you paid off a good agency in India to fix you up with jobs, then.

You're right that it's a little more complicated. A family friend is here from
India on some kind of visa where she is able to switch employers, but she has
to leave if a new one won't sponsor her or something. But she pays (or paid)
thousands of dollars to some agency in India to fix her up with a job/jobs.

What really gets me in her case is that she has a child who has lived here for
over a decade and can't get in-state tuition without special treatment despite
being legal.

~~~
untog
Well, I'm not from India, so no, I didn't. I changed jobs by going out,
looking for a job, applying for it, and interviewing.

The principle is absolutely simple- an H1B visa is freely transferrable to a
new employer. There is absolutely nothing (legal) that your old employer can
do in retribution once the transfer is complete, and it is possible to go
through the transfer process without notifying your current employer.

~~~
ashayh
The problem is almost always for people from China, India, Mexico and
Philippines. The Green Card process takes less than a year for all other
countries except these. The Green Card paperwork takes a lot of time and
effort for people from these countries. While doing the paperwork, there are
extended periods where it does not make sense to look for new jobs. That
pushes the expected date further in the future. For example, as of today,
people who applied for the GC in 2004 and have a MS or 5 years of experience,
are just eligible for it now:
<http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/bulletin/bulletin_5885.html>

------
jdminhbg
What does it say about programmers that HN is half swamped with complaints
about recruiters and half with complaints about putative oversupply of labor?

------
casidiablo
I'm right now under an H-1B visa...

I know it is not fair for americans to be unemployed because we foreigns are
taking your positions; but you guys don't know what it feels to live in a
third world country.

You can read all you want about poverty and violence, you can get shocked by
the news and movies that touches that kind of topics. But you will hardly ever
experience what it feels to live in real poverty. You don't know how it feels
when your brothers or children are dying of starvation.

So I kept studying for years, stuck in a country were you can get killed
anytime... became a freelance and later I was brought to the US under a H-1B
visa. And guess what... it saved my life and my family's.

I've realized America is the kind of country that loves to exploit and get as
much as possible from other countries (third world ones generally), and when
it comes to give back some of that... well, you find this kind of reactions.

------
stewie2
My team has 4 job openings. The only two candidates who could pass our phone
screen are not U.S. citizens. One is from Russia, who didn't get the visa for
on-site interview.

America seems to be very harsh to legal immigrants, but pretty nice to illegal
immigrants.

I think it's good for a country to import some competition. After all, h1b has
a 60000 cap each year, that's not too many people.

~~~
anxrn
Agreed. In the process of sponsoring green cards for prospective candidates,
we go through the process of trying to find US citizens that could fill the
role. This is a requirement of the labor certification process. We rarely, if
ever, find _any_ US citizen that applies for these positions. Most applicants
are immigrants, which makes us reject them (since the exercise is to really
see if we can find citizens). These are not low-paying grunt jobs. These are
highly-specialized, very well paid positions.

~~~
armored_mammal
Maybe you should focus on finding smart people (if you actually pay decently
and are located somewhere somebody in their right mind would want to live) and
then consider training them in your 'high-specialized' whatever you need.

------
hudibras
Oh boy, here we go...

Norm Matloff's H1B web page should be required reading for anyone who wants to
discuss this: <http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/h1b.html>

He definitely falls on one side of the issue, but he's the leading academic
researcher on the subject.

------
jessaustin
If the people who run unions were smart, they would have gotten rid of H-1B a
long time ago. The tech industry is the only part of the USA economy that even
has a potential for the sort of labor shortage required for healthy private-
sector unions.

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eplanit
This is as true today as it has been for the past 10-15 years. "highly
specialized knowledge" == "cheap talent". And as has always been true, you get
what you pay for.

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yankoff
As for why many of them don't become permanent residents: it is quite hard to
jump from H1B to permanent residency. I'm facing this problem myself at the
moment and there's no easy solution. Living in such uncertainty about your
future is hard and many people are just like 'screw this' and leave after some
period of time. It's not like they want to leave and take their work with
them.

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yankoff
The point is that laws are such that they encourage you to leave the country
after you've been educated and gotten good work experience. Which is crazy.
You'd imagine there should be an easier way to become a permanent resident
after you worked in a country for a while.

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Samharnett
I am journalist for public radio and I'm doing a story on H1Bs. I am
interested in getting the perspective of employees working on H1B visas.
Anyone who is interested in sharing their experiences can reach me at
Samharnett@gmail.com.

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infoseckid
Be competitive, rather than eliminate competition. If an H1B can do the same
job for a cheaper price, he should be hired. What's so wrong about it?

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rbanffy
My $0.02: there are a lot of reasons to want to move to the US that are
completely unrelated to job opportunities.

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rogerchucker
I wonder if H-1Bs were attracting more Europeans than Indians, would Americans
hate it the same way?

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ikonst
I doubt skin tone plays much of a role. Relative to other places around the
world, Americans are rather colorblind.

