
Almost Every Kind of Wild Fish Is Infected with Worms (2016) - skolos
https://munchies.vice.com/en_us/article/almost-every-kind-of-wild-fish-is-infected-with-worms
======
peterwwillis
As with almost all Vice articles, this is heavy on the ick factor, light on
useful information. This "journalist"'s only source was someone who literally
just sold infected fish.

Most parasites in fish can't adapt to humans, most can be safely digested, and
commercially frozen fish will only have dead ones. So sushi or cooked dishes
made from commercially frozen fish is basically fine. Worst case: a dead
animal is in your food, which is already a dead animal. Less than 40 cases of
humans infected with fish parasites are found in the USA each year. Wild
freshwater and semi-freshwater (like Salmon) are the most likely infected
fish.

If you find wriggly worms in your take-out, you can actually remove the worms
(yes, even if they are alive) and then cook the fish to an internal
temperature of 145F for 15 seconds, and everything (larva + remaining worms)
will be either dead or safe enough to eat. However, if this is takeout, and
the worms are alive, you probably already ate live worms/parasites.

It's funny that Vice didn't even include the really gross parts. Some people
report feeling a tingling sensation when they eat raw or undercooked fish.
This is the worms moving around. Often you can remove the worms from your
mouth or esophagus, or vomit, to prevent infection.

~~~
bestnameever
The ick factor is really turning me off of fish and I love fish.

It might be safe but something about worms and parasites gives me the creeps.
On top of that, it seems that many times the fish you order might not be the
fish you receive _. For someone that cares, I 'm starting to find it confusing
to keep up with what fish I want to avoid, and whether I should seek fresh or
farmed, frozen, etc...

_[http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/04/27/testing-shows-
ma...](http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/04/27/testing-shows-many-bay-
area-restaurants-mislabeling-fish/)

~~~
peterwwillis
Refer to the Monterey Bay Aqauarium's Consumer Guides for the most
ecologically responsible choices of fish. From those, cross reference with a
list of "healthy fish" such as
[https://www.rodalesorganiclife.com/food/healthy-
fish](https://www.rodalesorganiclife.com/food/healthy-fish) . As for "honest
labeling", I just don't pay lots of money for fish. Culinary skill is more
likely to make it taste great than exotic variety.

I think you really shouldn't consider it so much, though. A lot of work is put
into minimizing how "unsightly" our food is and it results in a lot of waste.
Fruit and veggies have more parasites than fish, for example, and consumer-
facing fish gets a lot of prep work before you ever get to see it.

------
hartror
> Still, this may be an issue that's more about squeamishness than safety. Of
> the 20,000 cases of nematode infection from eating fish reported globally,
> over 90 percent of them are in Japan.

Unless you're susceptible to infection this is really about perception rather
than health risks.

------
xref
60 cases a year in the US, out of (quick Google) "In 2009 Americans consumed a
total of 4.8 billion pounds of seafood." Sweet Mary!

This is like the viral report of the kid who overdosed on caffeine a few weeks
ago. And as someone said in the HN comments there: "this isn't a new silent
killer."

------
raldi
Similarly, almost all kale is infested with grubs or their eggs. Even if you
triple wash it, it's almost impossible to get them all out of the nooks and
crannies on the underside of the leaf. Look closely next time you buy some --
particularly organic.

Just like the dead fish parasites, though, it's not harmful.

~~~
samstave
humorously; google for "kale grub eggs" \-- and it returns nothing but
recipes!

~~~
raldi
They look like this. I guess I should have said "aphids":

[https://www.bbbseed.com/blog%20images/Aphids%20Kale%20Judy%2...](https://www.bbbseed.com/blog%20images/Aphids%20Kale%20Judy%20Sedbrook.jpg)

------
skolos
> some wild species of fish—like hake, herring, and mackerel—had an infection
> rate over 90 percent, but the study found no farmed fish to be infected with
> nematodes..

Did not expect to see the rate this high.

~~~
pvaldes
Is true that farmed saltwater fish do not have Anisakidae nematodes _normally_
, because they aren't feed with live bait normally and the life cycle of
_this_ nematode is not direct and can't be completed.

On the other hand, I will take the flashing 90% infection rate with a grain of
salt, for some reasons.

First because this rate is not useful if we count together fishes with a 500
worms load, and fishes hosting one single tiny 1mm long worm.

Second, because infection rate is heavily seasonal.

Third, because parasite distribution is patched. If we speak of a single type
of roundworm some stocks could be heavily affected, but most of them aren't.

Mixing saltwater with freshwater and speaking of all parasites together the
percent should be closer to 100%.

------
pvaldes
Animals have parasites, welcome to the planet earth.

~~~
louithethrid
Even the parasites have parasites.

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douche
No shit. If you've ever gone deep sea fishing on the New England coast, and
taken home some cod or pollock or haddock or hake filets, then when you skin
them, you've doubtless noticed some litle round reddish worms under the flesh.
You just pick them out with your filet knife when you clean the filet up.

------
TheGrassyKnoll
Worms and plastic in sea salt:

[https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/05/sullied-seasoning-
se...](https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/05/sullied-seasoning-seas-salts-
come-with-a-dash-of-microplastics/)

A Kale sandwich (with a few grubs) is looking kinda good.

------
averagewall
Wow. You're supposed to cook fish at 130F? That's 54C! You could practically
achieve that by leaving it on the dashboard of a parked car in summer. Not
only won't it kill worms but it won't kill bacteria either. I would call it
raw fish at that temperature.

~~~
dTal
According to the USDA, not only won't it kill bacteria, it'll incubate them.
Anything less that 140F is in the "danger zone" for rapid bacterial growth and
food poisoning, and recommend a cooking temp of 145F for fish.

I initially suspected some Celsius-Fahrenheit confusion, but other sources
corroborate these temperatures. Color me perplexed.

For what it's worth, I had fish last night. Cooked it 20 minutes at 180C. Was
not shrunken or dry. Guess I'm doing it wrong?

~~~
peterwwillis
If your fish was commercially frozen, you don't need to cook it at all, much
less to that high a degree. And if you thaw, prepare and serve it properly,
potentially harmful bacterial growth is minimal and safe. The FDA even has
guidelines to follow in the preparation of sushi which results in a fairly
safe dish.

In one study it was shown that refrigerated or frozen sushi had less aerobic
mesophilic bacteria than freshly prepared sushi, and that the preparation
varies between restaurants/chefs. But more people get bacterial infections
from produce and rice than from fish.

On the culinary side of things, it can be easy to overcook certain fish, and
other fish are much more lenient. Some of the most delicious tasting fish
should be served raw or in-between raw and fully cooked. This way both
delicate flavors and firm tissues don't break down completely.

For a typical salmon steak, 145C for 20 minutes is about right. The idea is to
get it up to temperature, then remove it and cover it and let the residual
heat keep cooking the fish for 10 minutes, allowing juices to settle back in
(much like other meats). Alternately you can cook at a higher temperature for
shorter time and apply a sear after. But in general, once the meat turns
opaque all the way through, it's at the perfect state just a couple minutes
later.

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iLemming
So why in US you can't buy anthelmintic drugs over the counter, without
prescription. Or can you?

------
bykovich2
Eh.

------
CamperBob2

       This challenges the conventional foodie wisdom that wild 
       is good and farmed is bad. But the science is clear, and 
       food regulators recognize this. Both the Food and Drug 
       Administration's recommendations and Oregon's food 
       regulations allow an exception for eating raw, never-
       frozen farmed fish. In other words, it says that all raw 
       fish served in restaurants must be previosly frozen 
       unless aquacultured.
    

So.... what's the problem, exactly? If the fish came from a farm, it's
(apparently, according to the article) safe.

Mindlessly downvoting is not a valid answer.

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rootsudo
Not the main part of the article but why would anyone go to a Sushi restaurant
if the owner isn't Japanese? Especially if they don't eat the food they serve?

"I talked to Ryan Roadhouse, chef-owner of the lauded Japanese restaurant
Nodoguro and former sushi chef at Masu, about the incident with the worms. "My
wife isn't from the United States," he said. "She's from Russia. The only way
they trust fish, even frozen, is [if it's] salt-cured.""

~~~
flukus
Because being Japanese doesn't bestow any magical ability to make sushi well.

