
Ask HN: Would You Give Your Client Phone Calls For Free? - jv22222
If a client insisted that they would not pay for phone calls, even calls in which they were discussing thier projects with you, getting feedback from you, and brainstorming new ideas for thier product (calls that lasted upto 1hour)... would you work with them for $75/hour for all other billable time? Or would you not work with them period?
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lionhearted
No right answer to this, it very much depends on where you're at. At the very
least, note down the calls you do on invoicing and write "no charge" by them
so the client understands what they're getting.

If the client is a good client overall, absolutely refuses to pay for calls,
but it's an unreasonable time sink for you - you can always just raise your
billable rate a little bit to compensate, to $85 or whatever. People get funny
about paying for certain things and not other things. Like, someone might
absolutely insist that you pay the postage and printing costs for documents
and reports you make up for them which is a trivial number, but then they
don't flinch at a 20% rate increase. Strange world. Just go with the flow on
it, everything is negotiable. Try not to stuck on a little detail if a
person's got a dead set policy on it, there's usually another way to get
everyone what they want as long as it's generally a good deal for both sides.

~~~
jv22222
But lets say a client refuses to pay for five hours of phone time, that in the
end, brings value to the clients business... isn't that a little bit fishy?
Why should the dev have to sink the $375 cost? Just curious as to your
thoughts.

~~~
lionhearted
> Why should the dev have to sink the $375 cost?

You don't have to. Let's say you're doing 20 hours of billable work at $75.
That's $1500. Now let's say a client adamantly refuses to pay for any of the
time you spend on the phone with them, even though that's normally billable
work for you.

That means you're spending 25 hours and would like to be compensated $1875.
Instead of fighting and insisting you get paid for calls you could instead
just quote a rate of $95 per hour for billable work, include free phone calls,
and make your rate. It's not logical, but some people would be happier to pay
a higher rate with some freebies thrown in. If being billed that way makes
them happier and you make what you're looking to make, that's a fine way to go
about it.

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cperciva
My rule is that I don't bill for time I spend receiving instructions, but I do
bill for any time I spend providing advice except when the advice takes the
form of recommending that I not be paid to do a particular project.

Of course, I don't work for $75/hour either. In the end, everything is subject
to negotiation.

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bdfh42
Project time is always billable. Sales time is not - although (of course)
sales time costs have to be recovered and must form a part of your project
hourly rates.

I would worry about a customer who does not understand this basic business
concept - "there is no such thing as a free lunch".

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srgseg
Beware that people react very badly to you charging them to 'talk' or
'discuss' things.

I remember a senior exec at a telecoms firm that had a high six figure budget
to spend on a particular type of solution. He was so offended by the idea of
paying $250 to attend a workshop that he just ignored that solution provider.

Build the cost of talking/discussing/brainstorming into your overall price and
this will no longer be an issue. Consider it part of your sales and marketing
budget.

~~~
allwein
>Build the cost of talking/discussing/brainstorming into your overall price
and this will no longer be an issue. Consider it part of your sales and
marketing budget.

I couldn't agree more. And in fact, this becomes another unique selling point
to you and your services. I provide free phone calls up to a reasonable point.
If it's going to be a case of a 3-hour marathon conference call, I'll arrange
to be onsite, which clients then don't mind paying for. If it's anything up to
45 minutes, I just eat the cost as sales and marketing.

I can't tell you how many times this makes an existing client willing to call
me up and discuss possibilities for additional work because he knows it won't
cost him anything. This lets me get in on the ground floor for new ideas so I
can make recommendations and provide guidance.

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brudgers
Sometimes insight comes in the second hour.That's the problem with hourly
contracts, they get in the way of rapport,talking through issues, and
brainstorming.

Clients who don't want to pay for phone calls need a full price contract with
a clearly defined scope of services based on a well developed specification
and established budget.

edit: Though sometimes, unbilled time is best seen as client management.

