
Epic Games releases "Nineteen Eighty-Fortnite" ad - pizza
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euiSHuaw6Q4
======
arduinomancer
The whole strategy here feels pretty unprecedented.

Usually these kind of lawsuits happen in the background but Epic seems to be
going full force with making it a public campaign.

> Apple is blocking your ability to get the latest Fortnite updates! All
> players should have a choice in payment providers and save up to 20%. Apple
> wants to limit your payment choices! Join the fight against @AppStore on
> social with #FreeFortnite

Can't imagine being in the room of Apple's PR team reacting to this.

~~~
ziddoap
I'm not a fan of what Apple is doing, and am happy to see it be tested in
court.

But, I'm not a fan of another multi-million dollar company making such a
blatant appeal to emotion, as if Fortnite needs to be "freed", to the common
person who has no concept of how nuanced the legalities of this entire thing
are.

I'll be happy when the theatrics are over with, and we can simply view the
outcome of the legal precedent that is about to be set. This is a battle for
the courts, not Twitter.

~~~
dgudkov
That's correct, Epic's not altruistic here. But who else would be able to
fight Apple's lawyers if not another multi-million dollar company?

~~~
ziddoap
If they did so without overtly manipulating people via appeal to emotion and
over-simplification, and not attempting to simultaneously run a PR campaign
designed to whip people into a social media frenzy, I would not have the dirty
taste in my mouth.

------
siavosh
I can't put my finger on its validity, but it all resonates the same to me:

\- Listening to billionaires arguing with each other about what society should
be for the benefit of all since this recession started

&

\- Trillions and billions of dollar companies battling it out as if they were
the underdog in the public arena for the sympathy of us mere wage earners.

The pervading sense I think from Left to Right is the system is rotten and
we're mere spectators being told to root for one unfathomably rich entity vs
another unfathomably rich entity. You can almost understand the anarchist,
burn it all down meme.

~~~
freeone3000
Burn it all down. Create a new society formed from mutual aid and non-
heirchial power structures. Capitalism is the disease.

~~~
m0xte
Great ideology. Shame we’ll all starve or kill each other on the way and it’ll
turn to shit the moment someone is more equal than someone else...

~~~
onemiketwelve
No no no, that's because you didn't burn it down the right way. You just need
to fundamentally change human behavior and motivations for it to work. I don't
get why this is so hard to understand

------
eindiran
In case you haven't seen it (like I hadn't), this ad is a parody of the 1984
Apple Macintosh ad:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvjbmoDx-I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvjbmoDx-I)

~~~
JoblessWonder
Oh man... That ad was huge... HUGE when it was released. It has its own
wikipedia entry:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_(advertisement)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_\(advertisement\))

~~~
Taniwha
Well hugeish ... originally it only played nationwide once (but in the
superbowl)

However Epic's rework is very on point - Apple has become what it originally
claimed it was rising up against

~~~
JoblessWonder
Well they got enough press that they didn't have to air it themselves. The
media was doing it for them. :)

For example, I've seen the commercial multiple times on various programs and I
wasn't even born when it was released.

------
valine
I don’t care about Fortnite, but I would love to have the option to install
alternative apps stores on iOS.

This has to be the most dramatic example of “running to the press” to date,
which I’m sure Apple loathes. If nothing else it’s entertaining.

~~~
rched
I'm curious as to why as a user you want alternative app stores? I understand
as a developer why you would but it is less obvious to me how it would improve
the experience for users.

~~~
valine
There are lots of private apis in iOS which developers are not allowed to use
but would allow for a richer, wider variety of apps.

For example f.lux has a large feature set which isn’t built into Apple’s night
shift. F.lux relies on a private api so the only way to get it on iOS is
through Cydia or some other jailbreak App Store.

Also I can imagine there would be lots of possibilities for third party
watches if apps could have properly backgrounded processes. Android watches
are generally crippled on iOS when compared to the Apple Watch.

~~~
rched
I didn't consider that angle. Although to me that is almost a separate issue.
Even If Apple allowed separate App Stores I suspect they would still find a
way to prevent access to private APIs.

------
Ivoirians
This is going to be a fascinating PR war. Apple was probably caught by
surprise with how immediately public Epic was willing to take this.

But besides the fun of that wonderful drama unfolding over the next
months/years, I actually feel like this could be catastrophic for Apple's
image. Epic has an underestimated amount of influence and clout over the Gen Z
crowd, and by aggressively rallying teenage gamers against Apple, I think
anti-Apple sentiment could become popular (or viral) where it basically was
nonexistent before (outside of some techie/developer circles).

~~~
wvenable
I don't think Epic has _that_ much influence. If I were Apple's PR team, I
think I'd just completely ignore them. Treat them as utterly and completely
irrelevant.

Personally I think Apple's 30% cut is ridiculous and the fact that there is
zero market pressure on that them to price it appropriately should mean
something. But at the same time I'm not sure Epic has any legal leg to stand
on.

~~~
newbie578
And that is exactly why you are not Apple's PR team. I understand your POW and
I would have shared it also if not for the kids in the house where you can
actually see how dominating Epic is. There is a whole sub-culture around
Fortnite, it expands from just playing a simple game on your iPad to being a
way of communication on TikTok (e.g. dance moves). And you bet that when those
little kids start whining to their parents, some noise will be generated.

I have honestly nothing more to say, except well played Fortnite! Perfect
execution.

~~~
wvenable
I play Fortnite and my kids play Fortnite and I still don't think it's _that_
dominating. Kids have plenty of outlets and Fortnite is one of many. But even
if I agree what, exactly, is Apple going to be able to say or do? What
response could they possibly have that would placate children?

It's better to not fuel the flames.

------
Apocryphon
A decade ago, yet another company (the upstart doubleTwist) dared to challenge
Apple's control of their platform by advocating for a secondary content store:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdVzboF2E2Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdVzboF2E2Q)

Story:

[https://techcrunch.com/2009/09/29/doubletwist-remakes-
apples...](https://techcrunch.com/2009/09/29/doubletwist-remakes-apples-
classic-1984-ad-with-a-new-dictator-steve-jobs/)

HN discussion:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=851088](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=851088)

History repeats, and rhymes.

~~~
vedant_shety
But doubleTwist was much smaller with a really niche audience.

~~~
Apocryphon
You're right, but I'm just establishing there's precedence.

------
dgritsko
As someone who neither uses the App Store nor plays Fortnite, this is
fascinating to watch unfold.

------
bmarquez
I thought it was cool that in the video, the Apple developer agreement
(requiring a 30% cut) was faintly placed on the walls.

A nod to the "walled garden" term.

------
Brendinooo
Didn't these guys build their own distribution channel and withhold their best
game from a competitor so they could 1) build their own walled garden and 2)
avoid Steam's 20-30% fee?

~~~
ryukafalz
And paid devs who were previously planning Linux releases for exclusivity on
their Windows/Mac-only store.

------
meheleventyone
I’m not sure weaponising a demographic not known for particularly rational
responses to things is _that_ good of an idea.

~~~
kyleee
are you talking about the demographic of "people who play video games"?

~~~
meheleventyone
No, more the hardcore minority that give people who play videogames (like
myself for 30+ years!) a bad name.

------
akerro
So the next IT revolution is turning kids against one of the biggest
corporation in the world? Sounds good to me.

~~~
Pfhreak
Weaponizing the firehose of vitriol of gamers is a wild approach to take.
Let's see if it pays off for them.

~~~
Smilliam
It's a tried and true approach at this point in history. Remember Steve
Bannon? [1] Weaponizing (angry, disenfranchised) gamers is the hot trend of
the last decade.

[1]
[https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2017/07/18/s...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2017/07/18/steve-
bannon-learned-harness-troll-army-world-warcraft/489713001/)

------
colesantiago
Apple has become what they hated in IBM and Epic Games called them out.

~~~
nine_k
I think they stopped hating it when they walked away from the openness of
Apple II into the all-closed design of the original Macintosh.

Apple wanted to be a huge corporation, and they succeeded. They also wanted to
be a sexy and adored big corp, and here their success is colossal, no IBM
could compare.

Google used to compare, but they started to lose their luster in the eyes of
the tech-savvy trendsetters some time around 2015. I suspect Apple is going to
get a similar treatment some time in the future.

------
janderson3
I find it fascinating that in that ad the schlubs that are sitting there
watching the television are Fortnite default skins and not say, replicas of
the characters that hold the same position in the original Apple ad. This
really supports Dan Olson manufactured discontent assertion[0].

Even if you support them and play their game, if you don't spend money for
skins, you're still in Big Brother's audience. The wildest thing is that the
Jackboots behind the hammer thrower are approximate replicas of the Apple Ad.

[0]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPHPNgIihR0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPHPNgIihR0)

~~~
resu_nimda
I don't play games anymore and I'm not a big fan of the whole
microtransactions/F2P model, but I found that video somewhat uncompelling.

Not that long ago, the MMO standard was $15 a month* (plus the initial $50+).
Not to unlock the cool stuff, but simply to play at all. And nobody felt like
there was anything sinister about it.

With Fortnite, you can play for free as much as you like, or (based on what I
gathered from the video) pay <$10 every 2.5 months to be on the cool track.
Seems like a pretty good deal in comparison, assuming that they're rolling out
new (non-shop) content at a reasonable rate.

 _Even if you support them and play their game_

How are you supporting them if you don't pay? Sure, they benefit from network
effects, but ultimately they obviously need a lot of paying customers. Have we
really gotten to the point where people expect to play AAA games for free and
view it as audacious if the developers incentivize people to pay for things?
As mentioned, I did much prefer the old model because it precluded this kind
of stuff from seeping into the experience, but I don't think there's anything
fundamentally sinister or wrong with trying to push people towards paying for
your game (though I will say the "let me see your Marsh Walk emote" stuff was
pretty cringey, but that's another story).

*I realize that Fortnite is not an MMO but it seems to fit the bill for something you would pay a subscription for these days. You could hold the Battle Pass for over a year for the classic $50-60 game price.

------
Johnjonjoan
Do the ends justify the means? The way I see it Apple will be rightfully
scrutinised but only because a giant corporation used propoganda on its users.
The lowest common denominator: "they're stopping you playing the game!!!"

~~~
spzb
They’re only preventing new installs. Most Fortnite fans with iPhones will
already have the game installed. It still works fine. I just tried it myself

~~~
Johnjonjoan
Until there's an update.

~~~
spzb
It downloaded a 1.4 gig update when I opened it

~~~
Johnjonjoan
Interesting. Does your ability to download past updates mean you'll be able to
download future ones though?

There's no doubt in my mind epic are using the they are stopping you playing
argument - they literally say in the advert it's been blocked from a billion
devices.

I mean if that statement is technically not true then don't you think it's
propoganda?

Edit: I shouldn't have said technically not true but that they are being very
economical with the truth.

------
onemiketwelve
In all the hullabaloo around this drama, I haven't seen any actual mention
about what anti trust/ competition is supposed to be about. All I see is
"private company, anything goes" vs "Apple owns the market. Apple bad".

Not a lawyer. But I've heard some podcasts with lawyers on them. So I'm
basically an expert. Isn't the whole pov of courts supposed to be: is this
harmful to the consumer? They arrived at this "razor" because just being big
and successful by itself isn't automatically bad. What if you're huge because
run your business better than everyone else? What if you use your size to
invest in more efficient capex that lets you make stuff cheaper? If you pass
those on to the consumer, that should be kosher.

If you use your large size to push for things that's only good for your own
bottom line and pass that cost on to your partners, who then have to pass it
onto the customer, then by my crude layman's definition of anti
competitiveness, Apple looks very naughty. Especially when the reason you can
push certain unpalatable things is because your business is so pervasive and
has high switching costs. Most of the time it's fine to let businesses charge
whatever the hell they want. If eBay went from 10% fees to 30%! fees people
could just go to any other market place. Yeah it sucks to relist inventory,
copy photos over, start with no feedback, but it's doable.

But I can't just switch simply from Apple to Android. Do you remember the
first time you tried to use Linux or macos? How painful was that? And we're
nerds! How is the majority of people who don't give a shit about tech deal?

And I see the argument of "Apple good" because most of the experience just
works so I can definitely swallow a closed appstore with any fees they want to
impose.

That's exactly the problem though. This is using their size and prevalence in
their customers lives to their own disadvantage. This feels anti competitive

------
davidg109
Move over Netflix, this Apple vs Epic is the shit worth watching. Your move
Apple.

~~~
coldcode
Not really. It's basic contract law versus some small game company lawyers
(compared to Apple's). Also, putting out parody ads and making fun of the
whole thing will get you zero points in any court. Even if a court accepts
this at all it will take years to finish. Meanwhile Epic is out of luck.

~~~
jcranmer
Epic isn't trying to win at judicial court with this ad; it's trying to win at
the court of popular opinion here.

------
invokestatic
In 2010, Valve made a 1984-esque trailer for Half Life, titled “Free
Yourself”. Ironically, it announced that Half Life was ported _to_ Mac OS X.

[https://youtube.com/watch?v=2zkLh_QMFdQ](https://youtube.com/watch?v=2zkLh_QMFdQ)

------
lai
They must've made this video prior to launching their new payments system
because they knew this was going to happen. This is incredible.

------
bhaak
This reality is crazy. Every year we're thinking it can't get more surreal.

------
minimaxir
Epic is showing the commercial on an infinite loop on Twitter:
[https://twitter.com/FortniteGame/status/1294006412931223552](https://twitter.com/FortniteGame/status/1294006412931223552)

(Infinite Loop pun not intended)

------
egypturnash
I wonder if anyone has any data on what percentage of the kids who play
Fortnite on iOS have access to anything else to play it on. Because I feel
like that number will be very important to anyone at Apple contemplating
"okay, fuck it, who cares, what if we just pulled Epic's authorization to run
these things on iOS entirely".

There are probably a bunch of other reasons to not consider that option but I
would bet money there are people on both sides of this argument giving serious
thought to that option.

------
Foivos
Spotify had created a dedicated website for similar reasons.

[https://www.timetoplayfair.com/](https://www.timetoplayfair.com/)

------
alkonaut
If I was apple I'd quickly exempt Epic and allow them to charge however they
want, but not change the rules for anyone else. The number of other players
that are large enough to have this kind of sway (so could try the same thing)
must be pretty small, and going through the courts might hurt more.

~~~
modeless
Tim Cook just testified to Congress two weeks ago that they treat all
developers equally. That's not a good option for them right now.

------
jedimastert
I know this is almost off topic, but I find it fascinating and really funny
that a company/game well known for "borrowing" pop culture (i.e. the whole
dancing thing) is doing the same thing to get their message across.

------
stunt
I'm interested to see if other companies will join or not. It would be
interesting to see if Apple will remove every one of them from App Store or
not.

Epic parody of 1984 is epic.

------
tanilama
wow, the drama begins

I think Epic did the right thing. 30% Apple Tax needs to go and go for good.

Apple provided limited usefulness in the whole transaction, yet they claim 30%
of it. Why?

------
z_
How did this update get passed the App Store audit?

------
BMSmnqXAE4yfe1
The villain in the original ad was, I believe, the IBM.

------
david-cako
Wild times we live in. Steve would be proud.

------
sjwmozilla
I like the font they use at the end, anybody got its name?

~~~
hnarn
Probably this, since it's the "Fortnite Font":
[https://houseind.com/hi/burbank](https://houseind.com/hi/burbank)

------
tibbydudeza
It is Zoomers vs Boomers.

~~~
phone8675309
Hmmm, essential oil powered zoomers versus psychic surgery killed boomers?
Which one will win?!

~~~
sushid
Zoomers are no the ones selling essential oil. You're a few generations off
there.

------
vernie
That sucked way more than I was expecting.

------
Pfhreak
Who watches this ad and doesn't immediately realize how ridiculous it is? Epic
is a multi-billion dollar company taking pot shots at another multi-billion
dollar company.

Are people so easily swayed to their particular favorite capitalists? Have we
really not moved on from "Sega does what Nintendon't"?

Edit: To be clear, I'm not supporting Apple here. I just think this particular
ad is a _wild_ shot to take. I know it's a reference to the original Apple ad,
I just think it's completely overdone.

~~~
Miner49er
It is a ridiculous comparison, but it also was when Apple did it it in 1984:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvjbmoDx-I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvjbmoDx-I)

------
cloudking
Apple is providing the platform that enables Epic to distribute their game for
FREE to a billion+ users. Why shouldn't they take a cut from the in-app
purchase monetization? It costs Apple server hosting, bandwidth, engineering
to provide this service.

Providing an alternative payment method at a discount is not the answer here,
obviously players will choose the cheaper option.

If Epic wants more money, maybe they should negotiate a smaller cut.

~~~
beaner
> Apple is providing the platform that enables Epic to distribute their game
> for FREE to a billion+ users. Why shouldn't they take a cut from the in-app
> purchase monetization?

Then they should charge the developer for install costs + profit, not charge
for _all transactions happening in the game that have nothing to do with Apple
and impose no cost on them_. That's retarded.

It's like a landlord taking 30% of sales from the local florist rather than
just charging rent. Totally messed up.

~~~
qtXJ9EM
This literally exists and is commonplace in commercial real estate.
[https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/percentage-
lease.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/percentage-lease.asp)

~~~
beaner
I'm not surprised! It seems like a reasonable option for those who have no
initial capital to pay for their lease.

But for those who come with capital ready, it can be a horrible deal. Being
made to accept that option when you don't need it means you end up wasting
much more money than you otherwise would.

Same happens in the app store, in its absence of an option between these
methods.

