
Why all HDMI cables are the same - rheide
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20056502-1/why-all-hdmi-cables-are-the-same/
======
jrockway
One advantage of more expensive cables is that they look nicer and feel a bit
more solid. But fortunately, Amazon ruined that industry with their "Amazon
Basics" line. Those are some of the best cables I've ever seen, they come in
easy-to-open packaging, and they're dirt cheap. A two meter HDMI cable is $7,
and it's nicer than any other HDMI cable I've seen.

I feel sorry for people that go to stores to buy things. What a waste of time
and money.

~~~
cdr
I've never bought Amazon's because Monoprice's are about half that ($3.50).
Monoprice's cables seem to be of great quality too - they're noticeably better
than some of the $20 cables my parents have paid for at retailers.

~~~
willwagner
+1 for Monoprice. Their prices are great, they have a large selection of cable
types and lengths, and they are speedy.

With Amazon's convenience and large selection, it's hard for these niche
shopping sites to gain any mindshare on me anymore. When I'm looking for
something esoteric I usually check Amazon first and then possibly google
product prices to make sure the price isn't substantially cheaper somewhere
else. For me to switch away from Amazon at any place that hasn't been
"grandfathered" in my mind like Zappos and Monoprice, you'd have to do it via
price first, and then keep me with some sort of convenience or other hook.

~~~
jrockway
I don't bother searching on price anymore. Amazon's $4 same-day or overnight
shipping always makes up the difference. I have money, not time :)

~~~
ericd
True, Prime has pretty much obliterated every other retailer from my memory.
It may not make them money directly, but it's a brilliant business move
overall. Monoprice and Newegg are the only others that I even try now.

~~~
SonicSoul
i've been a prime customer for a while as well.. and i love the convenience
and guilt free shopping.. but i did notice that prime items are almost always
more expensive then very similar items not available for prime shipments. so,
the shipment cost is more likely split between amazon and the customer...

------
rkalla
After 4 years and helping 100s of people with their PS3's loosing signal[1], I
cannot agree with the article.

I understand the _message_ of the article (that the $90 Monster cables are a
scam) but the $1 skinny HDMI cable you got with your DVD player is not the
same quality as the $10 one you picked up from MonoPrice, Amazon or Blue Jeans
Cables (all 3 of my favorites for buying cables).

I don't know why, I am not an EE guy, I'm just saying after telling someone
for the 200th time "Try this $10 cable from Amazon instead..." and having them
come back with "It worked! The PS3 is fixed!", I'll just say all my personal
experience suggests otherwise.

I am talking about fixing everything from "my colors look wrong" to "I have no
picture!" with this recommendation.

I'd also point out that even at the ridiculously high end of cables where you
are talking about gold-this and gold-that, to an average viewer there is no
perceptible difference but there does seem to be a measurable difference in
cable quality for really demanding runs[2], meaning YES there is a difference,
but most people will never need/see/experience it unless you are doing a very
long run.

[1] <http://www.thebuzzmedia.com/ps3-hdmi-black-screen/>

[2] [http://www.thebuzzmedia.com/hdmi-cable-showdown-monster-
mono...](http://www.thebuzzmedia.com/hdmi-cable-showdown-monster-monoprice-
xtreme-hd/)

~~~
michael_dorfman
_I am talking about fixing everything from "my colors look wrong" to "I have
no picture!" with this recommendation._

"I have no picture" will definitely be fixed with a better cable.

"My colors look wrong" will not, _and cannot_ , be-- for the reasons discussed
in the article.

~~~
rkalla
> "My colors look wrong" will not, and cannot, be--

Believe me, I would agree with you had I not been troubleshooting the issue
for the last 4 years, but it did fix it.

It is entirely possible the guy ended up changing more than just the cable and
didn't mention it.

This experience reminds me a lot of the Google Ops Team talk at Google I/O
this year where they gave stats on things that caused outages and kept
punctuating the point that things you think are impossible, will happen at-
scale.

"HDMI is a digital signal, it either works or doesn't, degraded analog signal
artifacts are impossible!"

Apparently not =/

~~~
fhars
And this "it's digital" argument is bogus. The individual bit is either
transmittes correctly or not, but the whole stream can have arbirary many bit
errors which the receiver can only compensate up to a certain rate. There is
usually good error correction on the audio streams (both listeners and
speakers don't react well to sudden loud clicks), but errors in the video
stream usually lead to artefacts that may be visible for are few fractions of
a second or so (until the next full frame in the streams).

Whoever makes this "digital streams cannot degrade" argument has obviously
never tried to watch DVB-T behind a hill.

~~~
coin
DVB != HDMI.

I believe DVB-T uses MPEG-2 or some variation. While HDMI video doesn't use a
motion vector based encoding. So when you have errors with MPEG-2, it could be
on B or P frame which results in the delta from the previous I frame being
drawn incorrectly (or not at all). With HDMI, the error won't show up in a
delta frame (because there aren't any), rather just white pixels.

------
gardarh
I don't feel very confident about the article after reading the following:
"Before sending the signal out via the HDMI output, the 1s and 0s are
rearranged to minimize how many transitions there are. So instead of 10101010,
the transmission may look like 11110000. If you really like math, how it does
this is cool [wikipedia link to 8b/10b encoding] ..."

It's the other way around, the encoding makes sure there is a bit transition
every now and then (details in wiki article); this is done in order to
preserve the clock in the signal.

When someone writes an article on such a technical subject and messes up a
technicality it makes me wonder whether there are more serious factual errors
in there.

I agree with his point though, my $10 HDMI cable works perfectly :)

~~~
gvb
His description of how differential signaling is used is totally whacked too.
His link to Wikipedia's "Phase Difference" page has "phase" in the title, but
is irrelevant to how and why differential signaling is used ("puts the out-of-
phase signal back in phase, then compares it to the "real" signal" Huh? Not.).
He should have linked to "Differential Signaling" instead.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_signaling>

------
lawnchair_larry
For people who don't "get it", I ask them if they think a Monster Ethernet
cable would make the colors of the websites they view more crisp and vibrant.
If they say yes, don't even bother.

~~~
InclinedPlane
If they say yes tell them that monster cables are a scam, but you know about
the REAL good stuff. Them sell them an ordinary hdmi or ethernet cable at a
10,000% markup.

~~~
lucasjung
Just like the Smart Engineer: <http://xkcd.com/670/>

------
rdale
The are a couple of very helpful articles on the Blue Jeans cables sitee about
what is wrong with HDMI.

"HDMI is a horrid format; it was badly thought out and badly designed, and the
failures of its design are so apparent that they could have been addressed and
resolved with very little fuss. Why they weren't, exactly, is really anyone's
guess, but the key has to be that the standard was not intended to provide a
benefit to the consumer, but to such content providers as movie studios and
the like. It would have been in the consumer's best interests to develop a
standard that was robust and reliable over distance, that could be switched,
amplified, and distributed economically, and that connects securely to
devices; but the consumer's interests were, sadly, not really a priority for
the developers of the HDMI standard."

HDMI Cable: An Overview: <http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/hdmi-
cables.htm>

What's the Matter with HDMI?: [http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/whats-
the-matter-with...](http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/whats-the-matter-
with-hdmi.htm)

I don't have any HDMI based devices fortunately, but on the basis of these two
articles a Blue Jeans cable might be a good option to go for as opposed to the
cheapest possible.

------
Anechoic
Audioholics took on this issue with a bunch of bench testing back in 2008:
[http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/long-hdmi-
cable-...](http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/long-hdmi-cable-bench-
tests)

BTW, even though the site was using equipment from Monster, don't take that as
an indication that they're in Monster's pocket:
[http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/monster-
cable-...](http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/monster-cable-sue)
(there are any number of articles ripping on Monster on both audioholics.com
and avrant.com)

------
libria
Are there any vendor rebuttals to these claims? I suppose if you're spending
$30k for Wilson Watt Puppy's, then $2.5k is chump change
([http://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Digital-Audio-Ethernet-
Connect...](http://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Digital-Audio-Ethernet-
Connection/dp/B003CT2A6I/)). Otherwise, I don't see how they could sneak this
into consumer shopping carts.

~~~
arethuza
Have you read the reviews for high end cables on Amazon - they seem to be a
motherlode of sarcasm.

My favourite review is from John L (Border of Wasteland, Former USA) on a
Denon cable:

"This connection isn't sound. If my calculations are correct, it should be
sometime around 2007 for whomever is reading this. DO NOT USE THESE CABLES.
Something... happens with them. Something came through, something from
somewhere else. We were overrun in days, not many of us are left. WE LIVE
UNDERGROUND! ONLY YOU CAN STOP IT NOW. SAVE US. DO NOT USE THESE CABLES."

[http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-Link-
Cable/dp/B0...](http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-Link-
Cable/dp/B000I1X6PM/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top)

~~~
dctoedt
Another great review:
[http://www.amazon.com/review/RETS8UQ5PLPFK/ref=cm_cr_dp_perm...](http://www.amazon.com/review/RETS8UQ5PLPFK/ref=cm_cr_dp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B000I1X6PM&nodeID=172282&tag=&linkCode=)

 _... The driver, clad in a robe colored the softest of white, floated towards
me on the cool fog of a hundred fire extinguishers. He smiled benevolently,
like a father looking down upon his only child, and handed me a package
wrapped in gold beaten thin to the point where you could see through it. I
didn't have to sign, because the driver could see within my heart, and knew
that I was pure. Upon opening the package, an angelic choir started to sing,
and reached a crescendo as I laid this cable on my stereo system. Instantly,
my antiquated equipment transformed into components made from the clearest
diamond-semiconductor. The cable knew where to go, and hooked itself into the
correct ports without help from me ...._

(Don't miss the surprise ending.)

~~~
pbhjpbhj
I looked for the surprise ending, then I realised it's not the end of the
comment but the price - "1 new from $9,999.00".

<http://i.imgur.com/Kmuvf.jpg>

------
espennilsen
I thought this was common knowledge now.

~~~
Fluxx
You'd be surprised. I don't know the inner-workings of most electronics
stores, but I bet the markup on cables like Monster is extraordinarily high.
And most consumers (and maybe some sales people) don't know the differences so
the stores push expensive cables on to their customers.

It's not just HDMI and home theater cables too. Here is a 6' USB 2.0 cable
from Best Buy for $24.99:

<http://bit.ly/qlOXza>

And here's basically the same cable at Monoprice _for $1.30_ :

<http://bit.ly/9yG9wP>

Never underestimate good marketing + gullible customers.

~~~
inflatablenerd
I work in an Australian retailer. The markup is huge. We sell $40 HDMI cables
that we get for $5. We also sell $99 cables.

Quite often, we make more money from people buying a $40 cable than we do from
people buying a $2000 iMac.

~~~
Pengwin
Knowing a few friends in retail you find out a lot of these things. I never
buy cables from physical stores anymore. At a local JB Hi-Fi you can find the
standard $70-$80 HDMI cables in the AV section, however there are similar just
as good cables in the Playstation/Xbox accessories section for $20.

I also love how many Apple accessories the stores around my area have, simply
because they make more selling cases and protectors than the actual device.

There is actually only one just Apple store in my town, and they have a radio
commercial in which all they say is that they sell iPod accessories. It seems
almost sad that it is the only thing the store is trying to sell.

------
daspecster
Except for the cables that are so cheap that they just don't work. :(

------
Terretta
This headline (by the author or editor) is completely misrepresenting the
article.

HDMI cables are different. Badly made ones, and ones rated differently, can
fail in unpredictable ways. The article describes failure modes, and alludes
to but brushes over technical differences.

Coincidentally, I personally spent 16+ hours on the better part of this past
Thursday and Friday nights trying to get a Cablevision set top box (OptimumTV)
to cooperate with an Onkyo receiver over HDMI.

I'd been using the receiver with a variety of equipment, and with a long run
to a wall mounted TV, for several years. I swapped in a new TV, and added the
set top box, and suddenly all HDMI related functions of the receiver started
failing randomly, 90% of the time.

I eventually attributed this to HDMI negotiation between receiver and
Cablevision's box. With STB plugged in, Boxee and DVD player would fail too.
Without STB, the others would work.

With eight cables I had on hand, all "known good", the receiver HDMI indicator
would either fail to light, with no picture and no sound on the TV, or blink
rapidly, and the picture and sound would come and go rapidly. (To me, this
suggests a flawed implementation of HDCP by the Optimium box, likely failing
the receiver handshake as it acts as a repeater between STB and the TV, and
this Onkyo has a hardware upscaler. An HDCP cable failure is alluded to in the
CNET article, but all eight types I had on hand failed in the same way.)

Cable brands that failed: Monoprice, Amazon Essentials, Radio Shack, Firedog
(Best Buy), and Monster. Also, these were all cables purchased before 2010.

I was not in the mood to buy a new receiver just to work with Cablevision's
box, so I decided to try the Home Depot "installer" aisle, and selected "GE
Ultra Pro HDMI with Ethernet" in a two pack of 6' lengths, and a 15' foot "in
wall" installer kit as well.

[http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202742223/h_d2/Produ...](http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202742223/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053)

These are labeled as supporting audio return channel, 3D, and Ethernet, and
are rated for 4K video (not mentioned in the linked article). The Cablevision
OptimumTV set top box does not use any of these features.

When I used this new HDMI cable, the whole system worked flawlessly.
Dumbfounded, I repeatedly swapped in my other cables, but they all failed,
while these worked. I had both a 15' and two 6' ones from this brand, and all
three worked.

So no, not all HDMI cables are the same. I cannot attribute this particular
behavior to "bad cables" or even "cheap cables", it has to be some feature of
the cable design.

 _// Disclaimer: I dislike cable TV for its "bundling" practices, and hope
Google wins their custom Hulu bid to force the studios to keep content online
for non cable subscribers longer. I was doing this install for someone else._

~~~
ricardobeat
There are different HDMI versions: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-
Definition_Multimedia_Inte...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-
Definition_Multimedia_Interface#Versions)

~~~
Terretta
Yes. The previous 8 cables were high speed HDMI 1.3, and the new ones HDMI
1.4. Wikipedia says "High Speed HDMI 1.3 cables can support all HDMI 1.4
features except for the HDMI Ethernet Channel". To my knowledge, the receiver
doesn't support that particular feature and neither does the Optimum STB.

In any cases, whatever caused this issue, I agree with the _body_ of the
article that _not all_ HDMI cables are the same. The headline does a
disservice.

------
bsphil
Never ceases to amaze me how the cheapest HDMI cable in any brick and mortar
store I've ever seen is $30. You'd think if people found out that a store
would sell them for just $10-15 that people would flock there due to the
relatively cheap price.

$4 with 2 day shipping off of Amazon and (of course) it works perfectly.

------
unreal37
One thing I don't understand, which the article just mentions in passing...

What is the difference between "high-speed" HDMI cables and standard cables?
Are high-speed cables worth the extra money?

~~~
nitrogen
High-speed cables are certified to run at the full HDMI bandwidth (allowing
3D, high-bit-depth color, higher resolution, etc.), while standard-speed
cables only carry standard 8-bit-per-channel RGB or YUV data at 1080p or lower
(source: comparison between [1] and [2]). On Monoprice, high-speed cables
aren't significantly more expensive, so one should always buy the high-speed
cable.

[1] High speed cable:
[http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&c...](http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024008&p_id=3956&seq=1&format=2)

[2] Standard speed cable:
[http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&c...](http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024009&p_id=4959&seq=1&format=2)

------
pointyhat
Not all cables are the same, even in the digital domain. Cheap metals,
shielding, high resistance wire and stray capacitance can change the shape of
the signal, increase noise and increase losses.

What goes in doesn't always come out the same and cheap shitty poorly filtered
equipment on each end makes it worse (PS3, Vaios, low-end Bravias etc - yes
I'm complaining about Sony here).

However the problems go away immediately at the $10 price point.

I'd only buy an expensive cable if I was going to require extra mechanical
strength i.e. if it was being plugged and unplugged regularly, much as you
should always buy decent oscilloscope probes.

On a side-note, as an ex-EE I've seen some crazy shit going on with cables
before. The worst being a $1500 RF cable that ran 4 inches between two bits of
avionic equipment and carried 455KHz IF (nothing particularly sensitive or
reliable that a $15 cable would have sufficed).

~~~
jvdh
Did you even read the article? The point is that the only difference for HDMI
cables is the price. Either you get signal or you don't. So you're probably
fine for a 3ft cable for less than $10.

~~~
pointyhat
Yes and it's definitely not that straightforward. "Digital cables" are
actually "analogue cables" with two discrete voltage levels or a modulated
signal carried upon them. They vary in reliability quite considerably due to
transmission line characteristics and distortion related to that.

If they were boolean with respect to working, they wouldn't need filters and
amplifiers on each end or checksums sent over them.

------
kang
You buy a cable. There 'would' be rusting. There 'would' be oxidation of
conductor.

$5 cable would be that way in 20-40 weeks.

$50 would be there in longer, because the conductor (of the connector
specifically ) is different. Gold plated ones last longer, also the quality of
the gold plating matters.

They don't matter when they are new.

~~~
nitrogen
Many of the cheap cables are gold plated as well, including those from
Monoprice.

