
The Man Blocking Peace in Colombia - santiagogo
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/14/opinion/the-man-blocking-peace-in-colombia.html?_r=0
======
ange1a
it isn't just one man... this went on for a vote and the majority of the
people voted against it... sure he probably helped but a lot of us, including
myself saw this deal as an insult to the millions of victims of the FARC...
Colombia said no to a narconsitution for the second time in my lifetime and
for that I am kinda proud.

The FARC IMHO are already defeated and they know it... the government just
want to give them a way to save face, however they have no popular support and
the country is moving forward without them...

~~~
abpavel
Hate breads only more hate my friend. FARC doesn't have the majority, no, but
they're not small either. They are a very large and established group,
impossible to defeat, because they are part of Colombia, just as you are. You
have to agree on the way to live together, and say "yes" to something
eventually. That is, without resorting to brutal dick waving that is war once
again.

~~~
ange1a
the farc only have around 10000 people in their ranks... that's .02% of the
population... that is pretty small...

they only look larger due to their narco-wealth (in fact they are one of the
wealthiest terrorist groups in the world) add the colombian government history
of just ignoring the pleas of the poor and their remote location... and that's
how they get away with this crap.

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the_watcher
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this article accuse Uribe of being
hyperbolic for suggesting the deal contains amnesty, then describe the deal as
amnesty for most, and lenient punishment for the worst (keep in mind, FARC
spent decades terrorizing Colombians).

I don't know enough to speak on who is right, but this article is engaging in
exactly what it accuses Uribe of doing.

~~~
ange1a
the treaty was giving amnesty to about 80% of farc members... and although I
agree that this is probably necessary for peace... man... these guys are
rapists murderers and drug traffickers... so...

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santiagogo
I like the fact that the article tries to be objective by recognizing that
Uribe's government was of great value to the country, but that because of his
overwhelming popularity as president he became entitled, arrogant and
egocentric, and he has now become a spoke in the wheel for progress and peace
in the country.

In addition to being corrupted by power, he has also surrounded himself with
yes men who have led a Trump-like lie campaigns around the country (recognized
by them) that led people to vote for No in the peace process, and is now
demanding impossible concessions from the government and the guerrilla to try
and stall the peace process until he or his party members are reelected into
power (next presidential elections are less than a year and a half away),
while leaving the country at huge risk of going back to guerrilla warfare,
terrorism and political violence.

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golergka
Although it is an editorial, the bias is astonishing. The whole nation has
cast a vote - but instead of respectine people's opinion, NYT portrays them as
manipulated, misguided children.

~~~
davidpelaez
They have been manipulated. There's a investigation close to begin to the PR
person of the NO leaders. I would agree with describing the Colombian people
as "misguided children".

~~~
drakonandor
It's a dangerous position to take if you can't fathom that someone may
legitimately disagree with you.

~~~
santiagogo
A large amount of people disagree, but what has come out after the vote has
shown than an even larger segment voted because they were intentionally lied
to and confused about the actual contents of the agreements.

It was actually pretty funny, because the leader of the NO campaign gave an
interview boasting about how they had successfully conned the country into
thinking that gender ideology gay marriage and other subjects were being voted
for with the agreements (they estimated that over 2mm evangelical christians
voted No because of this), and how by lying on social media they managed to
execute an incredibly cheap political campaign. He was removed as campaign
leader the next day and the opposition quickly distanced themselves from him
by pretending his role was minor, since he is also pending penal investigation
and will probably go to jail, since under Colombian law intentionally lying to
the electorate to change the outcome of an election is punishable by law.

This was the actual interview: [http://www.larepublica.co/el-no-ha-sido-la-
campa%C3%B1a-m%C3...](http://www.larepublica.co/el-no-ha-sido-la-
campa%C3%B1a-m%C3%A1s-barata-y-m%C3%A1s-efectiva-de-la-historia_427891)

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teh_klev
Archive.is linky for those who can't read the article (even via the "web" link
above):

[http://archive.is/YLsxH](http://archive.is/YLsxH)

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crdoconnor
[https://www.yahoo.com/news/majority-colombians-back-peace-
de...](https://www.yahoo.com/news/majority-colombians-back-peace-deal-farc-
poll-203140748.html)

Kind of weird how virtually overnight support apparently went from 59.5 in
favor/33.2 against to 49.8 in favor/50.2 against.

------
zeveb
Pure opinion without any indication of facts. Perhaps Uribe has legitimate
reasons for wanting to punish the rebels?

After our Civil War the U.S. government imprisoned Jefferson Davis and others,
and confiscated great quantities of land from former rebels.

~~~
pavlov
Seriously, the American Civil War? The mid-19th century does not provide great
models for politics of any modern nation.

Anyway, the Confederation was soundly defeated within a couple of years. The
Columbian government has been trying to destroy FARC with military force for
half a century. At some point, you have to try something else and be prepared
to make concessions for peace, even if it does not seem like perfect justice
to those who still believe in a military solution.

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xufi
Was there not an annoucement of new negotations that were announced in Havana
again after this vote went through? What happened to that?

~~~
ange1a
there will be a new negotiation, both sides are still commited it'd take a
while because the government should demand jailtime...

I believe the cease fire will continue tho

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valarauca1
>>He also asserted, without evidence, that the deal would hurt the private
sector.

Bourgeoisie propaganda.

>>even admitted in an interview that they had steered clear of explaining the
content of the agreement and instead “focused on a message of indignation."

So it is literally propaganda, paid for by..

>>The Uribe administration has continued dealing with the International
Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Bank, securing loans, agreeing to cut
expenses, agreeing to continue debt payments, privatize public companies and
foment investor confidence, in order to comply with financial orthodoxy.

Capitalists.

Communism is good in theory, but in practice it usually just ends up being
destroyed in a military coup financed by the CIA.

~~~
jayess
LOL, good in _what_ theory? Communism is an unworkable mess that demands the
use of violence to subjugate the individual to the whims of the majority.

