
Selfie-seeking Instagrammers are ruining the world’s beautiful places - pseudolus
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/day6/fugitives-on-the-run-what-s-next-for-puerto-rico-instagram-vs-nature-the-pinkertons-ride-again-and-more-1.5232456/how-millions-of-selfie-seeking-instagrammers-are-ruining-the-world-s-most-beautiful-places-1.5232466
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jartelt
Any one should be able to visit any national park, wilderness area, or other
beautiful place and take as many pictures as they want... as long as they
follow the rules and regulations.

Park your car where you are supposed to, stay on the trail, don't use a drone
if it's not allowed, carry out your trash, don't feed the animals, don't leave
your toilet paper under a tree, etc.

Sure I get annoyed when people take too long to snap their photo, but I also
get annoyed at people at the grocery store, on the train, etc. You just have
to deal with it and go on with your life! Just because some one else likes to
take pictures, doesn't mean you should shame them for being a "millennial
influencers". But we all should shame the people who don't follow the rules
(and these people have been around since before instagram).

~~~
8ytecoder
True. At the same time, travel has gotten so much cheaper and accessible that
it’s really impossible to go anywhere and enjoy it in peace. I chose to go to
Paris in dead winter to avoid the summer crowds - the lines were not any
shorter. It feels like a long time ago but only a few years ago I was visiting
a few national parks and the hiking trails were modestly crowded. In
comparison they are all overrun now. The difference I’d say is AirBNB. My
choices used to be shitty motels or campgrounds that never have space. Now,
it’s a beautiful home by a stream just outside the park in a ranch. Shared
with a few friends the cost is a fraction of a hotel room. Hotels were - not
sure fully intentionally - used as a mechanism to enforce visitor counts. With
AirBnB that equation is out the window. With low cost airlines making flights
cheaper and better fuel efficient cars making driving cheaper and AirBnB
making stay cheaper and inexpensive, the tourism sector is exploding. I do not
think this is sustainable. As with the other cases, these things are
externalising the cost to the cities and the parks do deal with.

~~~
zippzom
>it’s really impossible to go anywhere and enjoy it in peace

This is only true for a very limited definition of "anywhere". You can go to
Yosemite in the peak season and easily find places where you can't even see
another person.

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kbos87
It’s easy to hate on people for wanting to go to a place they’ve seen in a
photo and to focus on the fact that they want the same photo there... I think
that’s a casual knee-jerk reaction. The impulse to have a destination while
traveling isn’t a new one, and people have been taking photos for decades upon
decades. The problem is that we now have a platform that concentrates
attention so efficiently on the 20% of attractions anywhere someone might go.
I don’t know the solution, but shaking our heads at people for wanting to
experience the world they live in (even if they aren’t doing it to our
creative standards) isn’t going to help, and seems to be how a lot of articles
about this topic bait peoples’ attention and ire.

~~~
mc32
Right, the problem is the “likes” or “views” and comments, whatever metric.

Anonymize (hide) the metrics and watch this attention seeking plunge.

~~~
RandomInteger4
No, that's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.

Do you think anyone is out there "seeking likes" for the sake of likes? If we
hide likes and views, who would we be hiding them from? Third parties, or the
person making the content? If the former, then the person making the content
is still getting a dopamine rush. If the latter, then the audience will have a
button that they're not sure if it does anything when they click it. If both,
then someone will still find a way to track these things due to the outcome of
the algorithm used to sort content to trending or not.

Oh, wait wait wait, no, let me guess, you want the idea of popular content to
be thrown away completely and have the pseudo-communist overlords of silicon
valley to select what is or is not trending manually?

Like, what possible solution do you think there is to this other than just
leaving the system be as it is and being content with the fact that humans are
humans?

~~~
mc32
I’m not sure what you’re on about. What I’m saying is that people seek
approval and or attaboys and attagirls. They want the likes and they want the
comments, the recognition. This leads to this behavior.

If they were posting things to a virtual void the great majority would quickly
decelerate the rate of this behavior.

~~~
sak5sk
The same with Twitter. The amount of garbage that platforms spews daily would
go down tremendously if likes and retweets weren't a thing. I can't spend more
than a few minutes reading the most cringeworthy crap without questioning why
I'm even looking at it.

~~~
mc32
True, but I think Twitter is a bit different in some aspect. It’s still about
recognition, but it’s more akin to oneupmanship with yo momma jokes (and
similar things) where people attempt to impress via quips and such and getting
the attagirls and attaboys vis this idea signaling.

It isn’t so bad when it’s a group of five or ten being smart or crass and
obnoxious within that limited group. The amplification via Twitter makes that
unbearable. I agree the metrics do ultimately drive this behavior too.

------
holstvoogd
Here in Holland at the fields with all the flowers we have this issue with
tourist in general. They walk into the field for a picture, destroying the
crop costing the farmer thousands a year.

So the farmer put up a big signs telling people to take pictures outside the
field etc. Queue the German/Chinese boomer who conveniently 'did not notice
it'... People are just trash

~~~
hiccuphippo
I was in Amsterdam once and saw a sign in the floor indicating that was a
selfie spot. I chuckled. People were waiting in line to use it. Maybe farmers
should put signs of where it is allowed (and gives you the best angle) instead
of where it is not.

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foolfoolz
This is a stupid manufactured problem. People are visiting cool places and
trying to take a cool picture of it. Let’s publicly shame them for it?

i don’t mind either when you see a big picture spot at a famous location and
there’s a line of people waiting to get that best pic. if you made the journey
out there and want to spend an extra 10 mins to come home with something that
will help you remember it and look awesome at the same time, by all means go
for it

~~~
Hates_
Well in the case of Maya beach in Thailand, where they have already restricted
access, it was having a big environmental impact:

"Today, the almost 5,000 daily visitors to Maya Bay have contributed to the
area’s eroding natural beauty, threatening local marine wildlife and
sustainability of the ecosystem. Issues like boat anchoring, an excess of
pollutants and sunscreen, and irresponsible tourist behaviors have led to a
major decline of the coral reef system in the area, according to Andrew
Hewett, a spokesperson for the Phi Phi Island Conservation and Preservation
Group"

[https://theculturetrip.com/asia/thailand/articles/this-
beach...](https://theculturetrip.com/asia/thailand/articles/this-beach-in-
thailand-is-set-to-soon-restrict-tourists/)

[https://www.suretravel.co.za/blog/thailand-restricts-mass-
to...](https://www.suretravel.co.za/blog/thailand-restricts-mass-tourism)

------
marcosscriven
I was abhorred to see a teenage girl pouting for a selfie outside the
gatehouse of the Birkenau concentration camp.

Everyone else was ashen faced after an exhausting day of horridness.

I wondered about saying something but decided not to.

~~~
Theodores
Easy to be shocked by this but some slack can be imaginably cut.

I accidentally went to a concentration camp in the Czech Republic without
knowing what I was letting myself in for. Sure the sign said 'concentration
camp' but I was just cycling by and in need of an excuse to stop, so I took
the turning and went in. I hadn't heard of this one before - it was the one
the Nazis showed to the Red Cross to show that all was well when it was not. I
wasn't quite teenage at the time, but definitely young and ignorant.

My mistake was to offer to take a photo for some American tourists that were
there. They seemed to be taking selfies so I just 'helpfully' offered to click
the button for them whilst they 'smiled'.

This was obviously insensitive, but I had just casually arrived at the place
with no thought. Meanwhile the tourists I had tried to help had planned this
visit for months (if not years) and they had lost their whole extended family
in Theresenstadt and other places where 'Arbeit Macht Frei'. There is
something iconic about ironwork that says that, an impulse to take a photo
definitely exists.

But it is all very different if you go there because 'this place looks
interesting' rather than because you have thought it through. I learned as
much from getting it wrong with offering to help someone with their camera as
I did from seeing the bunk beds and barbed wire. I expect your teenage girl
pouting learned a lot too.

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alistproducer2
Social media is a cancer on humanity. It is not benign, as many people still
assume. Almost every time the medium is studied, the results show it makes
people less happy, susceptible to propaganda, and generally shittier people.
I've got an idea, if you really want to keep up with people set up an email
list. Or just realize that you don't actually want to keep in touch, as
evidenced by the fact that you never actually bother to call the people you
claim to want to stay in contact with.

------
sak5sk
I think the only solution is to restrict access or regulate tourist flow (if
feasible). You can't blame people for wanting to take pictures - it's an
impulse that's hard to defy unless you are actively thinking about it and have
had many thoughts / discussions about it like we are now. Yes, it's sad to see
people taking selfies, then looking at their photos and walking away from
whatever wonder they were just in front of for the sake of the photo. But hey,
that's their prerogative, why should I care? Presumably they paid in time and
money to get there so they can do with that time as they please. If we want to
protect landmarks, scenic & historic places, we need to control how many
people and how much access they are allowed to any given place. The tourist-
powered businesses are not going to bite the hand that feeds them so that's a
perfect example where the local government can step in and apply regulatory
measures.

~~~
everythingswan
They do this in a lot of places, partially to conserve the area and prevent
what you described and also as an added safety measure. Over-nighting in the
Grand Canyon is a great example. I think it's a good idea in most places where
the risk of injury or the risk of trampling is too great.

It's kind of a bummer that you have to plan so far ahead for some things.
Grand Canyon permits are done during a 1-week opening 5 months before the
calendar month you hike in, for example. It's challenging to organize a group
when you have kids, jobs, etc. that could change in that time.

------
H8crilA
2030: you can generate a deepfake selfies portfolio in 500 ms and
algorithmically choose the best looking one in another 500 ms, but people
still want "the real thing", a real proof they were there. Popular spots offer
zero visibility due to selfie sticks. Croatia is the first country to ban
phones, in Dubrovnik.

------
alchemism
The effect is very pronounced on the Greek island of Santorini. The rise of
Instagram (among many other factors) can be correlated with the expansion of
tourist season from ~5 months to 10.

Each day, dozens of young brides from every corner of the planet must wait to
pose on the scenic steps with blue domes that is present in everyone’s
consciousness, in the split-seconds when the shot is free of crowds.

Watching that scene play out over and over, and the general anxiety level of
everyone involved, I found to be quite fascinating.

Everyone was working very, very hard to recreate the popularized conception of
the experience, rather than just being mentally-present in an otherwise pretty
place.

~~~
krooj
Your point about being present really resonates. When I go out into national
parks for a backpack, I’m there to immerse myself in that space. Sometimes I
take photos, but never of myself in those places - it’s about preserving
what’s imprinted in your mind to look back on later. These photos make great
fine art prints that can be given as gifts later on.

The gamification of travel via social capital never sat well with me.

------
colmvp
A few years ago, my friend who moved to and now lives in Thailand told me
something similar to the contents of the article. Specifically, a quiet beach
area that locals would go to became overrun with tourists after Instagrammer
with lots of followers posted the location.

I guess I wouldn't mind this if it meant we became more receptive to making
life decisions to help preserve the environment, but it seems like the outcome
is mostly just about getting addicted to upvotes/likes on digital platforms.
Ah well.

------
pentae
The fact that so many millennials are attempting to make a career out of being
an 'influencer' or 'digital nomad travel photographer' certainly doesn't help.

~~~
sak5sk
Can you blame them? It's that or working a minimum wage job.. which would you
take? Have thousands of followers and make money online or work some miserable
job for corporate overlords - the choice is not difficult.

~~~
blaser-waffle
Reminds me of _Super Sad True Love Story_.

"Super Sad True Love Story is the third novel by American writer Gary
Shteyngart.[1] The novel takes place in a near-future dystopian New York where
life is dominated by media and retail."
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Sad_True_Love_Story](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Sad_True_Love_Story)

------
brm
Unfortunately the problem here is not the selfie or instagram, its the
smartphone.

An incredible tool with side effects people aren't yet capable of dealing
with.

The problems with social media mainly exist because we have always on internet
and a very good camera in the palm of our hands.

If it were a layer more difficult many of these issues go away.

That said I don't think its socially possible to put it back in the bag, so
we'll probably have to simply invent a bigger distraction.

------
chrisBob
I am about to have this problem right in my back yard. I know the farm field
that is 50 feet from my back door is going to grow sunflowers some time soon,
and my driveway is the obvious way for people to access it. I have seen cars
parked carelessly on major roads in the area when the same farmer used other
fields, and I am really not sure what to do when the problem comes to me. I
will be fortunate in that the field is slightly hidden and off the road, plus
sunflowers can't be planted in the same place every year, so there is only a
single season for people to discover and seek out the site. I am just really
not looking forward to dealing with all of the people driving down my driveway
to get their shot.

~~~
radicalbyte
Put up a gate and charge $50 to access the site :)

~~~
chrisBob
I have thought about that. Maybe when the time comes I should make a deal with
Farmer Kenny. He really doesn't like the people trampling around to get
pictures either, but maybe if I organized it and shared $10/person with him it
would be better for everyone.

------
cjonas
Jackson hole has started a campaign called "tag responsible" urging people not
to use specific geotags, but I doubt its had any real impact. No place is
secret anymore

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jackschultz
What in the world is going on with HN today? There's this post trying to make
fun of those who like to take pictures in an "I'm better than you because I
enjoy the moment" sort of way, then there's another post about "Was Email a
Mistake?" from the New Yorker nonetheless, and then another one titled
"Tardigrades may now be living on Moon" which is an article which should be
retitled "Tardigrades aren't living on the moon, but click here anyway!"

There are comments in all threads talking about how they're not good things to
be posted and talked about, but these don't fit with what I feel HN should be
about.

------
moate
*People are ruining the world's beautiful places.

Title fixed to remove implication that this is somehow 1- a new problem 2-
"young people ruining things"

------
croh
Oh Jesus! I feel really sad for this new selfie-generation. They just don't
know how to enjoy stuff.

