
Ask HN: Good tutorials on non-spammy PR/Marketing - jbr
Hi HN, my unnamed-so-this-isn't-spam startup is looking for advice on getting our name out there and getting more eyes on our site.  We're stronger on the tech side than on marketing and PR, but we're trying to learn quick.  We're self-funded, so $ is on a YC scale, not VC.  How do we connect with our startup audience without being disrespectfully spammy?<p>--<p>Edit: Thanks everyone for the actual feedback on our site; I appreciate the extra eyes and thought.  However, I'm actually (genuinely) interested in generic strategy as well.  How do other startups go from being unknown to getting press and leads/visits?  Even if our design isn't ready for it, there have to be other startups who are in a similar place.  Do other startups really just keep re-submitting to places like HN/launchly/TC/digg/etc until they get their dedicated userbase to spread organically?  Whose advice do you read on these topics?<p>Thanks again, HN; you're awesome.
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mdolon
I would also consider using a professional designer to help with improving the
overall look and feel of the site/product, or maybe even a service like
99designs.com. It looks like a solid product and something I'd use, but often
I find myself having to consider a product twice if the site is not up to a
certain standard of design and/or professionalism.

In terms of getting the word out there, I'm with aberman in giving away free
accounts for x users. If you can get a small group of paid users you can also
start an affiliate program where referrals earn users money or usage credits.

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EinhornIsFinkle
In my experience, it comes down to knowing your target, knowing what you want
them to do, and being smart about how you allocate your marketing resources.

For example, I've seen a lot of companies focus on getting people to the site
without a plan. Once someone discovers your site, what are you doing to keep
them coming back? Are you requesting them to submit information, presenting
them with a unique offer or message, or do you just want to see what they do
naturally?

The second thing is measuring your efforts. Every channel and tool that brings
in visitors can be measured and quantified. While you shouldn't purely base
decisions on the data, they can provide some very good direction on where you
should be focusing your efforts.

~~~
aberman
I totally agree with this. Get some good analytics tools. Mixpanel launched
today, and I am a big fan. Maybe its worth trying out.

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aberman
I checked out your site--your non-spam post motivated me to find it :)

I think you guys have a pretty cool product. Maybe you should concentrate on
one specific vertical. Right now you are trying to market to everybody, which
may be tough. But if you can pick one particular use case, it might be easier
to develop a marketing strategy.

Also, make everything free for the first X users. That will really motivate
people to sign up. Right now $75/month seems pretty expensive.

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jbr
I just found <http://www.squidoo.com/tribebuilding> which seems related, but
very generic.

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Adaptive
General comments. As a preface, I established several online marketing teams
at a multinational ad agency, back when things were new enough that they
didn't have anything in place. I am _super_ skeptical of most claims about
online marketing.

Fundamentally, whatever you do, marketing has to be based on three things:

* Honesty (no b.s. about your products, don't mislead)

* Integrity (play hard but play fair)

* Respect (always treat your customers with the golden rule)

Never, ever sacrifice those values. Always gauge all marketing against those
values. Seems obvious but many marketers (both client side and agency side)
don't do this basic check.

Ok, onwards.

\----------------------------------------

1\. Make sure your site is as search engine friendly as possible. This is your
foundation and without it any future promotion, marketing, word of mouth will
fall flat.

2\. Make sure your site reflects the impression you want to leave your
customers/prospects minds. Be brutal in your evaluation. Do not skimp on this.
First impressions on the web occur in a matter of seconds.

3\. Measure measure measure. Get a baseline on traffic to your site. Use
Google Analytics to track progress through the site. This is just like being a
store owner and seeing who comes in, what merchandise they like and how long
they stay.

3\. Identify your targets. How do they communicate? Are they emailers?
Twitterers? Where do they hang out online? Draw up a profile of your
prospective customers. This is the beginning of an online media strategy.

3.5 Figure out what you want to tell these customers. If you have some
existing customers talk with them. Craft your message. You may have multiple
messages for different prospective customers.

4\. Start slow, small and free. Drop honest, open non-spammy comments into
forums _that you are already a part of_ (no sock puppets). In other words:
this should be dealt with much like you are dealing with any product you
believe in. Be honest that it's your product, welcome feedback, but don't be
shy about saying why it's good and why you feel it would be interesting to the
people you're talking to.

5\. ___Always approach any marketing as, fundamentally, a conversation._
__Never talk at people. Even print advertising should be one side of an
ongoing dialogue with customers.

6\. As you start to get the word out, watch traffic. See what works. Stagger
your efforts so that you can track results easily. This is poor-man's media
planning. Plot it out in a spreadsheet or proj.management app or calendar so
you know when you'll start to communicate certain messages in certain
channels.

I could go on about this. Not sure if this is the feedback you're looking for.
Happy to write more.

\----------------------------------------

(edit: formatting)

~~~
jbr
Wow, this is exactly the sort of advice I was looking for. Do you have a blog?
Book references? I'm approaching this as a skill that I know I don't have, so
I'm looking for learning resources.

Thanks!

~~~
Adaptive
None of my blogs are about online marketing. Was happy to leave it as a
profession, even if I enjoyed it the years I was in it.

First, let me assure you that you do, in fact, have many of the prerequisites
for successful marketing, even if some of the skills will have to be learned.
The most important skill is _clear, consistent communication_.

Again, so easy to say but look at how many companies get at least part of that
wrong. Some are unclear in the message (could be too much copywriting, poorly
designed website or communication materials, etc.). Some, like Microsoft, are
chronically inconsistent in message. Are they fun and hip (seinfeld)? Cutting
edge? Appropriate for kids (the tedious ads with cute kids printing photos and
claiming to be a PC)? Cheapest product out there (laptop hunter)? Millions
spent on throwing darts at a map. Pick a strategy, stick with it. If you don't
know your communications strategy, it is probably because you aren't entirely
sure about your business strategy. Get the biz strategy right and the
communication strategy follows.

A couple other thoughts:

1\. Consistent communication. Again, probably obvious, but don't pull a Drop
Box (love them, btw, and they are learning how to communicate as they go) and
fall off the map for a couple months. Choose your channels (blog, twitter) and
commit to posting regularly. Doesn't need to be long, should be relevant. Your
customers and prospects are interested.

2\. There are a lot of buzzwords and jargon in advertising/marketing/pr. A lot
of it you can ignore. If you are going to work with an agency or outsourcer
and they use buzzwords or jargon, make them explain everything in english.
There are some useful concepts (branding--over used, misused but useful;
positioning--very useful) that are worth knowing and exploring.

3\. A lot of marketing is really and truly about market analysis. Spending a
bit of time mapping out the market (even simple exercises like a quadrant
analysis) can give you some feel for how customers look at your product in
relation to other products in category.

4\. Google is like gravity for internet marketing. Consider using ad words.
You can cap costs, there are a ton of features for targeting ads, it's very
flexible and you can box clever with it. The cost capping means you can
experiment with low risk. Awesome.

5\. If you aren't tracking it, don't spend money on it.

6\. Stay away from banner ads and the like until later in the game. Easy to
waste money there.

7\. Can you target your audience on specific sites? Do those sites allow
sponsorships?

8\. New channels. Look into advertising in new places like twitter clients.
Only if it's cheap, the cost is controlled, and the duration is capped. Don't
get sold into a longer buy than you are comfortable with. Emphasize you want
to experiment. This is down the road, but these new channels can be very
effective. Again, depends on your audience and if they use those channels. You
may brainstorm other ideas.

\--------------------

As for books, most of the online marketing books I see flick past are out of
date by the time they are published, or are targeting absolutely clueless old
schoolers. It's still worth going way, way back in time and picking a copy of
"Positioning". Good foundation, still relevant.

Blogs... I just culled my feed reader and nuked my marketing folder in its
entirety. There's a decent list at:

[http://www.conversationmarketing.com/2009/07/sites_where_i_l...](http://www.conversationmarketing.com/2009/07/sites_where_i_learn_stuff.htm)

I've read a couple articles on that fellow's site before. He seems not insane
and not too full of bs, but i haven't really delved into to that site either.

It's worth prowling around some of the SEO sites out there. SEO can be a black
art but I tend to believe that much SEO hand waving is serious overthinking. I
trust Google to do a decent job indexing my site if I build it properly. Make
sure your copy is tight, relevant and hits the right words and phrases you
want to be found on. Not rocket science. There are lots of other SEO
techniques, but those basic tips get you 80% of the way there.

