

Ask HN: How to get recruited at a US based startup? - scottydelta

I am a python developer from India and have applied to many startups in Silicon valley and California and get rejected every time even though they like my profile due to their inability to sponsor my work visa. Where can I find the startups who offer work visa sponsorship?
======
NhanH
Without a lot more details, it's impossible to say anything specific. At the
very least, I don't think anyone here could tell you if visa is really the
reason you were rejected by the startup - it could just be the most convenient
reason that the startups gave you.

It's very very hard for startup to sponsor you a work visa, whether they want
to or not. Every year, the new window for applying the working visa (H1B)
starts at April 1st, last year it took one week to fill out 210% quota of the
visa for the whole year (translation: even if you did apply, you have less
than 40% of getting the visa). And the visa won't take effect until October of
the same year. It means that for a company, they have to wait for you at least
6 months before you can work (not counting any other months of interviewing
and otherwise). For that reasons, most companies that can sponsor visa only do
so for people who can already work using another visa, while waiting for the
H1B visa. Not to mention the chance of not getting the visa in the first
place.

That said, do you _want_ to work for a startup, or just come to work in the
US? If it's the latter, you might have better chance with finding a subsidiary
of a US company in India, and hope that you can negotiate/ get them to send
you to the US (you would be working for them first in India, obviously). I've
known friends who came to the US this way. But beware of what you're getting
into, many HN users here will gladly tell you that the H1B visa is evil, or
might I say, _literally_ Hitler.

~~~
scottydelta
It's not just about coming to work in the US. I want to work at a fast paced
environment generally seen at a startup and I have previously worked for
indian startups and they tend to exploit the developers(atleast thats what I
have experienced), hence US. Infact, I have earned more by freelancing for US
based startups/companies on Odesk in a month than what I got after working for
a startup for 6 months in India. and btw what do you mean by 'H1B visa is
evil'?

~~~
NhanH
I don't know the situation in India, but there are a whole lot of horror
stories of startups (and non-startup companies) in the US exploiting
employees. Just because you earn more freelancing for US companies doesn't
necessary mean coming working for startups in the US will give you higher
living standard, Silicon Valley - and California on average - is ridiculously
expensive to live in. Again, do your research, I'm not in a position to know
your situation.

That actually ties to the part of "H1B is evil". I'd rather not bring up that
discussion, just search on HN (in both stories and comments) for "indentured
servants" and/ or "H1B" to see all the comments from both sides in the past.

Anyway, the general advice for young-ish (I assume you are) programmer wanting
to work for startup is to find not early stage startups, but mid-size one
(think of current Uber/ Lyft/ Wanelo, or Facebook 2006-2007 etc.). As you will
learn more, have an easier life (not that the work is not as challenging as
early stage startup, but early stage startup is quite ... insane in some
aspects), and further more, you can already filter out the crappy companies.

Remember, most startups die in the first two years or so, and if us
programmers can pick who doesn't... well, I think I have a better job for you
:-)

~~~
scottydelta
yes, mid-size startups are what I meant by working at US based startup. I dont
want to risk coming to US to work for a startup who is at very early stage
until and unless I believe in the idea and seem doable as a startup.

------
codingdave
You are in a tough position. Even if someone is willing to sponsor a visa, you
are competing with everyone who doesn't need a visa. You cannot just be "as
good" as the next guy - you need to be better, because it is more trouble to
bring you on board. And if the job explicitly says they will sponsor a visa,
you also need to be better than everyone else internationally.

This should not stop you from trying - but you need to focus on making
yourself stand out from the crowd. They may like your profile, but if they
like 45 other profiles, too, you need to tell them what makes you the one to
choose.

If you are really the best guy for the job, they will figure out the visa
issues. But if you are only 2nd best, they won't.

EDIT: I was also just thinking of how people I know who came from India made
their move here. Most of them worked for one of the big Indian firms who
outsource from the US. They would start working remotely in India, and then
get a role that moved them to the US. Once they were here, they could get to
know people, network, etc, and then find permanent US-based jobs through that
network.

------
sravfeyn
I was in same shoes as yours around two years ago. I feel your pain. I asked
similar question on HN then (1). My advice is apply at startups that
explicitly invite international candidates, especially the ones that lists
'can sponsor visa' info in their job postings. Even if they are willing to
offer a job, it's just very difficult to get a visa to US. I have interviewed
with one or two from Valley, it always came down to visa.

If you don't find a great startup, try looking for one in India. Hard to
filter through awful lot of crappy ones, but put some time. Talk to as many
startups as possible, don't just interview, but go to the offices, see how
they work and try to work for a week before you join. You will find something
good. Be patient, I must have talked to at least 40 startups face to face,
went to at least 10 offices. It's funny though, at last I found my job through
monthly HN-hiring thread.

1-[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5462515](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5462515)

~~~
scottydelta
I have few offers from some really good startups in India and thats why I am
looking for options abroad.

~~~
fmotlik
How about taking the offer at one of the startups that potentially expand to
the US in the future. Then you could go with that team to the US

~~~
scottydelta
The thing is I am already freelancing on Odesk and currently I am earning
twice the money than what a startup can offer in India. On the same note, I
dont want to work as a freelancer working from home anymore. So I am looking
for a US based startup instead.

------
lnkmails
Recently, I was researching about moving back to India and continue working
for my employer from there and get paid in USD. In theory, this should be
possible. My employers might agree to this (they do it to other colleagues of
mine in different countries). However, the taxation laws in India are not
straight forward around this. You can explore to see if this is a legit option
for you. If you have a solid profile as in open source contributions and you
can pull off working remotely (definitely not easy), this is the most
lucrative option for you. Trust me, living in USA is not what it used to be.
The whole political climate with so many wars, government snooping, highly
variant economy and things like Ferguson make it less attractive. If I were
considering a move today, I'd definitely think 10 times. Plus the stress
levels here are amazingly high. Everyone seems to be lost in their "careers".
Of course there are positive aspects of living here. It's definitely a trade
off like anywhere else. Good luck. I hope to bump into you someday and hear
your story of sailing the boat ;).

~~~
scottydelta
Well I worked for a swedish company for 4 months remotely from India and dint
find any trouble with the taxes. And I agree, working remotely for a US based
company is the best that can happen. Earning in dollars and spending is local
currency makes life alot easier.

------
aurora72
Why don't you consider Germany? US is great in terms of taking technological
inspirations but I wouldn't want to live there as that would mean working for
the landlords. I've been to Berlin for a year and consider working for any
company there (big or small) because the prices (rents, food, travel,
entertainment) are low and the incomes (whether salary or hour based) are high
and they pay satisfactorily to IT workers. They prefer more enterprise stuff
though such as Java and SAP. And in some areas being fluent in German is a
requirement. Still, it's worth it, they have more open and straightforward
visa applications.

~~~
rockyj
Second this. Moved to Germany over an year ago. Lot of companies looking for
programmers. You can find some jobs here -
[http://berlinstartupjobs.com/](http://berlinstartupjobs.com/) and the super
simple visa process here - [http://www.make-it-in-
germany.com/](http://www.make-it-in-germany.com/)

~~~
vram22
>Moved to Germany over an year ago.

From where?

~~~
rockyj
India

~~~
vram22
Thanks.

------
fennecfoxen
Someone here has already suggested that you enter the US through another
country. For some reason, that comment is dead. However, you should be sure to
spend some time considering that option and similar alternatives that will not
put you at a Silicon Valley startup immediately but which will could put you
at one eventually, or at a non-Silicon-Valley startup (maybe Berlin?) and if
you're really lucky you might be able to find a US-based startup with an
international office (possibly in India) that can get you the sort of visa
where you transfer to the US office after working there a year. (Currently I'm
doing something quite similar to this myself, except at the US offices of a
company that has offices in London too. For non-EU/EEA residents the UK
immigration regime is a little better than the US regime, but not that much,
and worsening.)

The visa sponsorship regime in the US is ridiculous and extraordinarily risky
(in the sense you must put in a lot of time and effort for a small chance of
getting a visa). Not a lot of startups are able to put up with that. If I
recall correctly, the H-1B in particular involves (a) posting a job
requirement that you don't end up filling with an existing citizen/resident -
a little game to appease the bureaucracy that's meant to ensure you're not
TAKING OUR JOBS!!!11 (gag) (b) applying for a visa and paying $$$ at the right
time of the year when they reset the annual quotas (c) waiting months for an
answer.

:(

That said, if you don't take risks you don't get lucky.

~~~
NhanH
Had anyone here getting in to the US through another country? As someone who
might have to plan for some thing similar, I'd love to hear your stories.

------
dooble
Since this thread is pretty popular, i'll try to latch on to it.

I too am a developer from India, college student to be more precise. I'll get
my degree in 2016. I want to move out of India to US or a country in Europe
and am trying to find a way to do so.

As for my skills, i have done a ton of open source work and am proficient in
popular languages like Python, PHP(?), Go, Clojure, etc. and some obscure
languages as well.

I am not sure which field of the industry i want to specialize in right now
but have done web, mobile, game-dev, desktop apps (linux & windows) and a bit
of embedded stuff.

Whats the best way to get a job and move out of the country?

~~~
scottydelta
Well, till you graduate, you should try working as a freelancer on
Odesk/Elance to get some real work experience.

~~~
dooble
well i've done some work through odesk, 2 internships (one at a startup and
another at a company with a billion dollar revenue)

------
blackxored
Others might have scratched the surface on this, but based on my network's
experience and my own, don't even try the startup route, it's not worth it.
Outside the US, you'll either get a) no sponsorship b) non-competitive
salaries c) mentor roles and that's being on the real top of your field. I'd
go for a bigger company which has a) the resources b) the legal expertise c)
the demand

Given you do Python, Dropbox comes to mind, but you can always Google or
stackshare.io for targets.

Good luck.

------
seekingcharlie
From my experience, being present in a country is going to greatly increase
your chances of being able to be hired there (even with the visa).

I would also give another vote for Berlin. I have lived here for the last year
& it has a very low cost of living, yet still a strong tech/startup focus.

Are you able to travel to Berlin for 1 or 2 months & find a job? As mentioned,
the visa process is much easier than the US & to be honest, your salary is
going to go a lot further in Europe than in Silicon Valley.

------
bezzi
My tip:Get a job at a company in Ireland that has US headquarters(they have
great immigration laws when it comes to qualified workers),you'll be able to
transfer to the US sooner or later.Will it increase your life quality? Well I
don't think so.

------
Terretta
Send me an example of your Python work.

I have visas available for Python devs from India or Eastern Europe.

In depth knowledge of systems programming and distributed computing, and
familiarity with cloud service provider APIs and automation frameworks (e.g.
Ansible/Chef) a plus.

~~~
mtviewdave
>I have visas available for Python devs from India or Eastern Europe.

What do you mean by that? Under H-1B one has job openings; you apply for the
visa when you decide to hire an immigrant.

Also, it sounds like you're saying there are job positions at your company
that are open only to people of particular national origins, or ethnic
backgrounds. Isn't that illegal under the 1964 Civil Rights Act?

~~~
fennecfoxen
That's not how H-1B works in practice. You find a candidate, make a fake job
offering that matches only that candidate, wait for that to go unfilled for a
certain period of time (oh noes!!), and then proceed.

That said, parent poster is plenty sketchy :)

------
scottydelta
I did come this website [http://tyba.com/](http://tyba.com/) which has listing
of jobs and internships worldwide but it hasn't proved to be useful yet.

------
danielbnelson
Try bigger companies. Early and mid stage startups won't have the resources
for all the paperwork.

But bigger companies lacking talent have no problem with it.

------
dutchbrit
Not a startup but have you considered Google? They have a whole legal team
dedicated to this kind of stuff, you'd have a lot more luck there.

~~~
yen223
I think it's an understatement to say that the competition to get into Google
is high.

------
AnuarK
Can you work in the US as a freelancer without the H1B visa?

~~~
scottydelta
Yes, absolutely. The companies pay you via either one of the freelancing sites
or direct bank transfer(paypal isn't working in India right now) and you pay
your taxes in India.

~~~
fennecfoxen
I'm pretty sure that's directly at odds with what the State Department has to
say about things. If you care about the legality of what you're doing, use
extreme caution here and consider getting real legal advice.

~~~
scottydelta
How is a US based company hiring someone via odesk and paying him via odesk
illegal?

~~~
crazypyro
Working in the U.S., even on odesk, without a proper visa is illegal.

~~~
scottydelta
As an indian, living in India and working on Odesk is not illegal. I don't
need a visa or anything to work via Odesk.

~~~
crazypyro
Except the question was not about living in India, it was about living in the
United States.

If you live in the United States and you say you are working from India, you
are committing fraud AND violating immigration laws.

If you live in the United States and you say you are working from the United
States, you are just violating immigration laws.

Its about where you are physically located and as the original comment I
replied to was referring to being physically located in the U.S., it would be
illegal.

------
handylin
Damn! I also want to work in Silicon valley... But I don't write python, I
write C++.

~~~
wyclif
There are plenty of high-level C++ engineer jobs in the US. Google, for
instance, will make a healthy offer to an engineer who is a real C++ expert.
Google is famous for their Python advocacy, but a lot of their infrastructure
is still built with C++.

~~~
vram22
>built with C++

And Java, and probably, more recently, some in Go. [1]

[1] This is anecdata :), but I don't think a majority of their work is in
Python, though they do have some, and I also read the recent threads about
their hiring Python devs.

More like C++ and Java (and JavaScript for the front-end), and nowadays some
Go, as I said. This is just based on reading about them on various sites,
though, I don't have internal info, so could be wrong.

------
handylin
Damn! I also want to work in Silicon valley... But I don't write python, I
write C++.

