
Avoiding Depression While Not Running a $1B Company - adam
http://smalldogsbigdogs.tumblr.com/post/23291496479/avoiding-depression-while-not-running-a-1b-company
======
mgkimsal
Said it before, and I'll say it again - much of the media we (hn-type readers)
consume is 'tech porn'. Much like classic 'porn' reinforced a view of women as
sexual objects, tech porn reinforces the myth that "just try harder and you'll
be a billionaire!".

Yes, I'm oversimplifying a bit, but I don't think by much. I think the
mental/emotional harm that this sort of fixation on 'startups' has on many
people is understated - we mourn the loss of someone to suicide, but say "he
had other problems already". No 'founders' are ever comfortable talking to
anyone about any fears/doubts because they will lose all respect from staff
and investors, so there's an emotional toll being taken on a small (but
growing) group of people.

~~~
mindcrime
_Much like classic 'porn' reinforced a view of women as sexual objects, tech
porn reinforces the myth that "just try harder and you'll be a billionaire!"._

Damnit, Kimsal, quit dashing my dreams!!! Take your cold, hard reality and
pitch it somebody who wants it... I prefer living in a world where I _can_ be
a billionaire someday.

As I've said numerous times.. I'd make a great billionaire playboy; if only I
had a billion dollars. :-)

~~~
mgkimsal
Quickest way to become a billionaire is to start off a mega-billionaire and
then try your hand at investing...

FWIW, you _would_ make an awesome billionaire playboy. Even a decent
_millionaire_ playboy someday. ;)

~~~
mindcrime
Aah, the "someday" bit is the rub. If "someday" isn't, like, next week or so,
it's almost pointless. I'm getting old, man. What good is a 40+ millionaire
(or billionaire) playboy?

~~~
revorad
Ask Felix Dennis.

------
dkrich
You might as well ignore Facebook and Instagram. If you want to be a
billionaire, creating a social media company is probably the worst way to do
it. Reading and obsessing over this kind of news is toxic for your brain.

If that kind of stuff gets to you, I would suggest the opposite of what the
author did- don't read the news. These days there is very little valuable
information because every media company is competing for eyeballs so they each
try to out-do each other with sensational, deceptive and in some cases
completely false headlines. I can't help but feel dumber every time I read
Bloomberg news or the Wall Street Journal. Just don't do it. Go on a news diet
for a week and see if you don't feel better and if you miss out on any
important news.

~~~
magoghm
That's what I wanted to say: don't read the news.

I've found out that I'm much happier when I don't read the news, in particular
news about politics. On the other hand, news about science & technology
sometimes do make me happy.

~~~
gordianknot
Humans are social animals, and awareness of a negative state of our community
makes us sad or mad, which seems meant to drive us to action. Evolution
appears to be mostly about the code (genes), not the client (mind) or machine
(body). From pre-history to present, communities've been composed of
genetically-similar members. Over time this has been less and less true,
corresponding with the accelerating decrease of travel costs. Now data (memes)
have emerged as another evolutionary layer, at a higher level of abstraction.

Contemporary "political news" is propaganda carefully crafted by concerned
corporations to misinform the viewer, both targeted "reverse lobbying" on
specific issues and general-purpose anti-participation tactics. The idea seems
to be to get voters to act against their economic and/or ethical interests
either by convincing them to mis-vote (compared to how they would if they were
more informed) or not vote, via manufactured dissent, character assassination,
blurring of issues and facts, and irrelevant/impossible campaign promises
(e.g. archaic issues like gender and reproductive rights and "border control"
that's thinly veiled racism (and won't happen because companies want the
illegals and they pay better)).

Call it reverse advertising. We've gotten so good at PR techniques that
they've become invisible. Everything stays the same, but we rebrand it and
view the world through the lens of the internet, detached from empathy with
the bitter natural world, in a cocoon suckling the nectar of porn-- over-
processed information.

This is why startups have only yet caused negligible political change.
Software, and by extension most programmers, are effectively "brains in a
vat." Shows how machines have _already_ "taken over" the world, and haven't
displaced us in the process. The singularity already happened, but we're still
large, hairless bipedal rodents-- and computers are not. Human bodies need
different stuff than machines, so we don't have to be competitive.

Likewise, hackers just want to have fun, and -- as this comment bears witness
-- we just talk about it online instead of doing anything about it. Hackers
aren't competitive with suits any more than computers are to biology. Suits
want software, so nerds get paid, but then turn around and re-invest their
money, move to Singapore and live it up, go on perma-vacation, etc. There are
many brilliant hackers, many of them also more than charismatic and wealthy
enough to get into national office. Instead they build the programming
language they've always wanted, or take up cycling, or reconnect with nature.

When we do look beyond the bubble of hedonism, we're comparable to people who
pray for things out of their control, i.e. asking for something, instead of
either making adjustments to gain control or accepting that control is
ultimately undesirable or impossible. Self-directed prayer (meditation), where
one looks inward and develops a dialog with 'eir layers of consciousness, is
something different, but other-directed prayer is the single-player version of
"happy news" (porn), be it cat pictures or startup drama or gadget
announcements or sports or esoteric programming language design.

~~~
dgreensp
Lighten up. We're not living in a literal 1984-meets-The-Matrix world just
yet. Your perspective seems as narrow as you criticize others' for being.

Silicon Valley may yet reshape the world, even if some of us take scenic bike
rides. (That was one of the bad things, if I'm keeping your argument straight,
while empathy with the natural world in general is good. The problem with bike
rides is they take time that could be spent running for president.)

I understand the point that many sectors of society could use some new life
breathed into them, but I think the oxygen needs to come from where it will,
and it will come.

~~~
gordianknot
No, but it is a Brave New World. We're the ones out on that island with the
artists and scientists. We make tools of change, but sell them off so that we
can go on bike rides. It's hedonism; this is the New Gilded Age.

------
michaelpinto
This post made me think of the book Outliers by Gladwell -- the Zucks and
Gates of this world are very much a result of hard work, but they're also a
result of being in exactly the right place at the right time. But I've got
some good news: Most of you are quite young here and tech is filled with
cycles. Maybe you don't get to be the next Gates or Jobs, but you could still
be the next Larry Ellison or Michael Dell. I'd also remind everyone that tech
is a fickle mistress, and that only about twelve years ago Steve Case was the
conquering hero when AOL merged with Time Warner. Don't be depressed -- stay
hungry, stay foolish!

~~~
EricDeb
It's also good to realize that beyond about 50 million I doubt any person
would even know what to do with that much money.... you basically end up
donating a lot of it unless you are hellishly greedy

------
raphaelb
It seems as humans we jump on any chance to beat ourselves up for not doing,
being, or having something.

Oh, I don't have a $1B company, I've got to beat myself up about it. Oh, I'm
older than So and So 20 year old who sold his company for $15M. Oh, I'm too
young to have the right experience to really tap into this niche. Oh, I spent
too much on college and now have all this debt and need to get a real job
instead of starting my business. Oh, I didn't go to college and everyone else
my age has great connections from it.

Just stop playing A you lose, B you lose.

~~~
seiji
A reminder I find useful: Code, not anger.

Find yourself annoyed about something "unfair?" Focus on a problem you can
actually fix instead.

If you find yourself upset about kids who went to a $40k/year private high
school winning the world, just re-focus your attention on what you can do now.
Code. Fix. Help a real person. Get out of your own head for a while.

Success and growth are fueled by output. Running circles in your mind about
our broken world only serves to make you more efficient at feeling angry. Use
your limited conscious hours every day to make the world a quantitatively
better place.

Alternatively, <http://www.zefrank.com/theshow/whipass/>

------
danko
This is a good companion piece to another recent HN post:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3991122>

I've found two axioms to hold true:

1) Don't compare your life to anyone's. Just don't. Comparing any two lives is
fundamentally apples to oranges, because each life is its own thing.

2) Once you've got the bottom tier of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs covered well
enough where you can feel assured that it'll stay covered, money doesn't buy
much happiness.

------
fotoblur
Great article and admittedly is how I feel sometimes as well. The day I heard
of the $1B Instagram acquisition was a cloudy day for me since I also founded
a photo social network over 4 years ago that is humming along slowly.

In Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman there is a section on media and
how it mostly, and understandably, reports the more interesting edge cases.
However a side effect of this causes the majority of people to believe car
crashes are more common than heart attacks and often leads to poor judgements
by utilization of the availability heuristic (see
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic>). The take home message
for me is keep on keeping on.

------
laconian
Not having a billion dollars is depressing for you?

This takes first world problems to a whole new level.

~~~
randomdata
Money is simply a metric of how people value you. It is a little disheartening
to know that nobody cares about what you are doing when you've poured in so
much effort.

It's not that anyone actually needs billions of dollars, but if you are not
making millions/billions of dollars, you start to question what is wrong with
you that causes people to not care, when they obviously do care about these
other people.

~~~
Mz
Flaw in your logic: They probably don't care about those people either. They
only value the product. It is not the same thing.

~~~
randomdata
It's not really logic though, just irrational human emotion. If we could look
at it logically, we'd realize that $1B makes you no better than $1M, or $100K,
or even less than that.

~~~
Mz
I don't agree. I am the type of person who thinks exactly like that. If I am
doing badly at a videogame, clearly the game hates me. People like me probably
invented gods/religion. I take things personally. Not everyone does. I had to
explicitly explain this type of view to my oldest son. He views things in
terms of cause and effect rather than "motive".

It is something on my mind a lot here lately. I have serious financial
problems and have for quite a long time. A few months ago, I ended up
homeless. The amount of money I need to clean up my financial mess is a drop
in the bucket compared to what I am saving American tax payers by getting
myself and my sons well. Saying that almost never gets me any support online.
What seems to get some support is when I say my webites will cease to exist
because I can't afford it. Donations have kept them online for three years.

In other words, people care about my work. But they mostly don't care about me
personally. That has its good points and bad points but is counterintuitive
for me. I'm a bleeding heart who cares too damn much about other people.

Edit: Let's a do a little experiment to make my point. I currently have 23
cents in the bank and I don't know how I and my sons will survive (as in get
enough to eat) for the rest of the month. Do you and other people give a damn
about me? Enough to donate money on my sites? (Call the goal of this
experiment $500 this weekend.)

I am guessing the answer is a resounding "NO". I am guessing you will be the
first person to prove me right and not give me one thin dime.

~~~
chipsy
I'm not in debt(yet), but I'm also in the position of "haven't really earned"
and it's definitely pinching me, although I'm failing less each time, which is
keeping me motivated.

But your guess is accurate. People want to be hands-on, social, and specific,
so "I am poor and need money to survive" is a extremely truthful, realistic
story that markets poorly. The story they like is the one where it has a
dialogue with more specific, concrete elements: "I liked this site so much, I
gave money to help keep it running..." They also adore having a foe to fight
against or a person who becomes some kind of representative of a cause.

All the techniques of fiction could be employed to make the work you already
have(which clearly has some value) feel like something people should
contribute further to - nothing actually fake or untruthful is necessary, it
just means finding a certain way in which to tell the story. At the end of it,
people become inclined to give a donation, fund the writing of a book, etc.
The product itself often isn't at the core of motivation to buy, so much as "I
want to finish the story being told."

~~~
Mz
The thing that most annoys me about the situation is that I am saving American
tax payers potentially millions and cannot find a means to cover a few 10k in
debts. I was a military wife for two decades. Although I am divorced, as long
as I do not remarry, I am entitled to essentially free medical care through
the military. But I have not seen a doctor in nearly six years and it feels
like I am basically being punished for doing the right thing even though this
did not just benefit me and my kids but is clearly significantly benefitting
society. Further, being homeless and mired in trying to just survive is an
active obstacle to trying to further develop my sites. American tax payers
could benefit millions more if I could get backing/assistance.

I am not a "charity case" -- I.e. just a waste of money. I have something of
significant value to offer the world but I need help to make it happen.
Unfortunately, it looks and sounds like I am a charity case, simply because
what I pulled off fell outside the paradigms currently in use and the
assistance I need does not fit neatly into a VC/ startup investment type
model.

------
bcroesch
I especially agree with the part about going for walks. I work from home a
lot, and I walk to CVS to buy something almost every day, just so I can get
out of the house. Amazing what 15 minutes without a screen in your face can do
for your mental clarity.

~~~
JonWood
Having just got to the end of a frustrating couple of days and realising I
haven't left the house since Tuesday, I totally endorse this.

And on that note, I'm going out.

------
jayliew
I know how that feels. Last year when I was a single founder, I went to a
startup-founder "health" event at 500 Startups, and one of the speakers (ex-
Zynga corp dev guy, Bret) gave a talk. Since he's the one acquiring companies,
he mentioned how sometimes founders made money still found a way to be
unhappy. Going from $0 to $10M is huuuuuge, but after a short while they're
depressed that it isn't $100M.

It sounded like he has went through a lot himself, and he recommended the
audience a book, which I bought, read, re-read, and still read a few pages a
day today - and it really helps. Don't let the cover fool you, this has
nothing to do with preaching about religion (I remain agnostic). I can't
recommend it enough:
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0062512943?ie=UTF8&tag=...](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0062512943?ie=UTF8&tag=sunjaytimes-20&linkCode=shr&camp=213733&creative=393185&creativeASIN=0062512943)

------
mmaunder
You need this:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLjyo51qmrI>

------
rgrieselhuber
I learned a long time ago that you should never be jealous of anyone else's
life and was reminded of this again (in a sad way) with the passing of Steve
Jobs last year.

~~~
nate
Very true. Have you read his biography? One of the things that also struck me
the most in there is how often Steve seemed depressed even with all the
"success". He seemed to be crying in so many stories. Even after every
revolutionary thing he had accomplished, the launch of the iPad 1 made him
depressed, because it just couldn't match his expectations.

Another reminder that no matter how much you achieve or obtain, all of us have
a sense of ambition that can easily ruin our happiness if we don't keep it in
proper control.

~~~
rgrieselhuber
I haven't but I'm not too surprised. I don't think the ambition ever goes
away. The reward of having as much of an impact as he did must be tangible.
The money, probably not so much, after a certain point.

------
Zash
Next on Hacker News: Avoiding Depression While Actually Running a $1B Company

~~~
eykanal
If only...

------
pedrocarvalho
The problem is that there seems to be only one definition for success (lots of
money and being talked about in the news) and we tend to compare ourselves and
others against that measure of success. Running a lifestyle business and
creating a handful of jobs, taking care of your family and friends, helping
the needed, being an excellent teacher, having an healthy lifestyle, (insert
here what makes you get up in the morning) are also huge successes, they just
don't make the news.

------
petercooper
Depends if you want the fame and kudos (and stress!) that comes with leading
one of these companies. I know the feeling you're describing but have come to
realize I'd _much_ rather have, say, a $5m/year revenue doing something I love
in peace than to be running some giant megacorp. Of course, still quite a way
to go on that one for me.. ;-)

~~~
thibaut_barrere
My thoughts exactly :) Even, $5m/y is far above my threshold.

~~~
petercooper
Well yeah, I just pulled that number out of nowhere ;-) Thinking about it more
seriously, it'd be closer to one!

~~~
zeroonetwothree
Yes it would be hard to get by with less than $1 million/yr.

~~~
petercooper
We're in a thread talking about personal success and ambition, not what we
_need_ to survive.

------
ivanbernat
As the 37signals guys put it: "What happened to building million dollar
companies? It's all about making a billion dollar companies these days". So,
seriously. If my company made a million a year I'd be the happiest bloke in
the world!

~~~
justin
You say that now. Not so easy to say once your company has been making a
million a year for a while.

~~~
mistercow
Yeah, but if your company is making a million dollars per year and you aren't
happy, then making a billion dollars a year wouldn't make you happy either. At
that point, you're well past the point where money buys happiness.

~~~
citricsquid
A million is not a lot of money.

~~~
mistercow
Yes it is, but it's not a grotesque amount of money.

Anyway, the whole point is that having enough money that money is not a major
point of stress in your life will help you to be happy, but beyond that it
starts to anticorrelate. If you have founded a company that is making a
million a year (I'm assuming we're talking about profit and not revenue), and
money is a major point of stress in your life, your best bet (in terms of
personal happiness) is to change your lifestyle so that you're living within
those means.

Keep in mind, 99% of individuals in the world make less than $50k/year.

------
jroseattle
I have mixed feelings about this post. The advice is good, but the tone is
negative. Ironically, I'd suggest the advice be relied upon if one became
wealthy.

On the one hand is the hubris of it all. Dejected over not being a
billionaire? More so than money, what one needs in that context is
perspective.

I have colleagues, friends and business partners who fall in the category of
highly financially successful. Extreme wealth comes with more trouble than one
might expect. Anonymity? Good luck with that. Jealousy from friends? A lot.
Thrill quotient goes way, way WAY up? Like clockwork. Your personality
changes? Big time. Still feel unfulfilled? Almost guaranteed. Biggie was right
-- mo money, mo problems.

On the other hand is dealing with your goals, and whether or not you have
attained them. If your goal is to acquire a billion dollars...well, shoot for
higher ground (not higher dollars.) Financial happiness and comfort is one
thing, but a specific number has more to do with ego. Money, as a goal, just
doesn't equate to feelings of accomplishment. Instead, set your goals to non-
financial things; it's the only way one can ever really satisfy those feelings
of reward.

BTW, all those I've know who generated their own wealth did so without a
primary focus of acquiring wealth -- it was a byproduct of their actions. They
were driven by something else, the money was just a consequence.

------
Mz
In some ways, this post really hits a nerve for me. In other ways, I cannot
relate at all.

On the one hand, the crap in my head is literally worth billions (annual
medical care costs for the 30,000 people with cystic fibrosis is roughly $3
billion a year by my best guestimate or about $1.5 billion a year if you
accept the low ball estimate of some article I read). Yet I am currently
deeply in debt and homeless.

Am I depressed? Not really, because I and my sons are healthy when that is not
supposed to be possible. And that alone is worth millions, even if no one else
benefits. But I am frothing at the mouth frustrated that a) I can't resolve my
financial problems even though they are a drop in the bucket compared to what
the medical expenses alone "should" be and b) I cannot seem to make much
headway towards spreading the word.

Yet, I also wrestle with valid concerns about self protection. Revealing
myself tends to get strong reactions from people, both positive and negative.
Those strong reactions can be potentially dangerous.

Still trying to work it all out, in my head and in practical terms.

------
eldavido
This is a great and much-needed article. Before I moved to SF, I lived in
Seattle and had to make an effort to get more involved in tech. In SF, things
are reversed: with a roommate in YC, another at Getaround, and a startup of my
own, it takes _work_ to escape it.

As a community, I think we should discuss this (mental health in the echo
chamber) a lot more.

------
keiferski
I think it helps to remember that the most influential (or smartest, etc.)
people in history didn't have a whole lot of resources. Compare Shakespeare
and Nietzsche to Vanderbilt and Rockefeller. Will anyone care about the latter
two in 100 years? If you're chasing fame or "impact", building Google might
not be the answer.

~~~
mindcrime
_Compare Shakespeare and Nietzsche to Vanderbilt and Rockefeller._

In what regards? If the metric is "who got laid more?" then I'm guessing
Vanderbilt and Rockefeller win. If it's "who left more of a mark on history,"
then sure, Nietzsche and Shakespeare, hands down. So the question is, what's
your priority?

------
gawker
Thanks for the post. You put it into perspective for me really. Been feeling
abit down over the past few days obsessing about how I should've worked harder
instead of fooling around with my time. I have a full-time job and I take
school part-time but I'm still trying to push myself in hopes of bootstrapping
a startup.

------
vchoi
"A couple of years ago, I realized that I was not the material of which great
artists are made and that I was rather glad I wasn't. And since then I have
been happier simply to do the work and to take the reward at the end of every
day that is given for a day of honest work." - John Steinbeck in August 1933

------
jshowa
To be quite honest, those valuations are probably way WAY to high. After all,
Facebook just went public so that 100 billion dollar valuation is probably
stretching it since companies are starting realize that Facebook adds generate
little value.

Its good that you have a sense of perspective about this and you don't let the
money aspect go to your head. After all, I find it enormously grotesque that
these Internet companies are valued so high since one change of management or
one new thing can make you become obsolete (MySpace and Yahoo are good
examples).

Don't let it get to you, the whole point is that you have your own business
and its still there. You can also just think of it as $100 billion of inflated
currency. (21.8% to be exact when Facebook was created in 2004 to now).

~~~
waterlesscloud
Instagram and Pinterest are looking like the peak right now. Neither of them
would get that valuation next week.

------
rehack
Honestly don't like billion being mentioned too many times on this page
(perhaps it is because the article itself says it).

I am reminded of what Derek Sivers said sometime after the movie 'Social
Network' came out. 'A billion dollars is not cool, you know what's cool ... A
million dollars'. (can't find in which video he said that)

I believe nobody can plan to be a billionaire. But people can plan to be
millionaires. And I think the blog post does articulate a healthy way of doing
it. But I wonder, why would a person feel depressed at all about not being a
billionaire. I think its foolish to even dream about it, really.

But, if you just find yourself being one anyway, good then, deal with it.
Else, try to be a millionaire, and then take it as it comes.

------
mojaam
Just tweeted this to the author and thought I cross-post it here as well:
Wonderful piece, I just had those same thoughts in the midst of all this
facebook IPO frenzy... stay hungry, humble, and healthy! (Hmm, I can call it
the three H's :))

------
espadagroup
It seems strange that a good data prediction company (Inkling) couldn't become
a huge growth company with a $1 billion+ valuation. Obviously this is an arm
chair opinion but it seems like the author would like to be in the position of
these other companies, so presumably the reason for not is due to some
combination of business, market, etc.. Which is the part I don't entirely
agree on. Inkling seems like a great idea in a market that people and
companies would pay big bucks for if you're good at it, am I wrong?

------
aw3c2
I can highly recommend NOT following the "Read the newspaper" and applying the
same for TV/Radio. Most of what is broadcasted is negative news. I rather live
in a happy fun place.

------
chmike
Is beeing rich the only goal of an entrepreneur ? It that was true the world
would be full of depressed people. I would suggest to pick a goal that is
achievable to avoid a persistant frustration later.

Another point is that the impression to be _trapped_ in an unsatisfying
situation can also lead to depression. Anticipate a way out. Build a company
that doesn't depend on you to run it and that leaves you free time to try
other ideas. You won't be trapped.

------
aspir
Thanks for posting this. I kind of needed it. Recent projects are getting
pretty tough, to the point of looking for a supplementary job, and the job
search itself isn't any easier.

I'm not in any kind of "bad spot" mentally, but it is reassuring to know that
I'm not the only one who feels somewhat unaccomplished in light of the
incessant tech news chaos.

~~~
fusiongyro
I'll tell you what I came here to tell the author of the post. You should read
"Fooled by Randomness" by Nicholas Nassim Taleb. One of the major points of
the book is that wealth that comes fast usually leaves fast, and wealth that
is built slowly is usually harder to lose. This is a natural consequence of
the "hidden histories"—the probabilities in play.

It's not sexy, but building your wealth slowly is a better way to live.

------
mikescar
Or stated in another way: just do something you love and aim high.

The author lists a lot of good points but it boils down to "keeping it real"
and keeping your friends, family, and personal life at arm's reach.

"Avoiding Depression While Not Running a $1B Company" just sounds a bit
extreme.

------
rmATinnovafy
I know that I just can't compete. So I focus on working.

$1B? I can't even fathom that much money.

------
twfarland
Dude. It is ok. The huge valuation these guys had for their flippant startup
in 2012 will be of little importance in the long run, and when we are on our
deathbeds.

------
jryce
Or just try not to do it for the money and/or fame. But that of course is
easier said than done for many out there already.

------
iusable
Love this post! Needed to be said and resaid, as many times as we hear 'Go $1B
or Kill Yourself!'

