
About Liberland - elmar
http://liberland.org/en/about/
======
Oletros
> Hi there friends . Our country is a new establishment . Many people are
> asking me for citizenship. Our country is so small only 3.000-4.000 people
> accepted. We are expanding to fill the Danube. Please; Syrian, Kurds, Arabs,
> Russians and Chinese are not write me. Because we will not accept them.

A good start for a country called Liberland, I expect that it is just a
trollish post

~~~
elmar
It doesn't make sense, a libertarian country should accept any race.

~~~
g1236627
They are liberals not libertarians.

~~~
elmar
You are probably right, two very completely different ideologies.

~~~
saraid216
There are a lot more than two ideologies in those terms.

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father_of_two
"I have a football team, therefore I exist."

I'm sure Descartes would rephrase his famous though to something like the
above, had he been contemporaneous of us (and tweet it as well).

These Liberlandeers need to create a proper national football team first to be
recognized. Being between Croatia and Serbia, they should have no problem in
getting good players.

Almost all of these European micro-states have national football teams which
compete. Even Gibraltar has a team now (their home games are in Portugal).
Vaticano doesn't have a team though, and I don't remember seeing Monaco as
well.

~~~
dagw
Both Vatican and Monaco technically have national football teams, but neither
are FIFA members and thus don't participate in international tournaments.

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toyg
It looks like its success depends on Croatian attitude. Basically, Serbs
believe that anything West of the Danube in that area is Croatia, whereas
Croatians argue that borders are more complicated (apparently following the
old path of the Danube, which has long changed). As part of the complication,
this territory is left unclaimed by Croatia because, following the disputed
border, it would be Serb; but Serbia doesn't care about it, because it's West
of the Danube and they're happy sitting on the Eastern bank.

Basically, the minute Croatia accepted the current state of things (which they
will probably have to do, once Serbia joins the EU), they would likely take
over anything West of the Danube, ending "Liberland". As it is, they have to
decide whether maintaining their (likely doomed) claims is worth accepting
this "Liberland" entity trolling on their border.

~~~
nsajko
Why exactly do you think the Serbian claim has more merit?

~~~
toyg
I don't think it has "more merit", but pragmatically:

1) if Serbia joins the EU, borders disappear because of Schengen, it becomes a
somewhat-academic debate, Serbia keeps control of the Eastern bank.

2) if Serbia does not join the EU, borders stay in place, no EU state is ever
going to help Croatia go to war for a few square-km of Balkan swamps, Serbia
keeps control of the Eastern bank.

From this point of view, the incentive for Croatia is to extoll the maximum
amount of compensation it can as part of the EU membership process of Serbia,
because it's unlikely it will ever get anything more.

Then again, this would assume rational actors, and the history of those lands
is full of extremely irrational ones, so...

~~~
Someone
Rational actors do not need to resolve border disputes quickly.

For example, there has been a border dispute between Germany and the
Netherlands for centuries about what part of the Ems-Dollart waterways belongs
to whom. Even when, after World War Two, there was significant discussion
about the border, resulting in small shifts of the border
([http://archive.law.fsu.edu/library/collection/limitsinseas/i...](http://archive.law.fsu.edu/library/collection/limitsinseas/ibs031.pdf)),
this didn't get resolved.

Result is that, in 2011, Google maps didn't really know where to put the
border
([http://www.thelocal.de/20110221/33241](http://www.thelocal.de/20110221/33241))

This conflict was finally 'resolved' in 2014 by deciding that the border will
remain ambiguous ([http://www.dw.de/germany-and-the-netherlands-end-
centuries-o...](http://www.dw.de/germany-and-the-netherlands-end-centuries-
old-border-dispute/a-18020219))

~~~
toyg
That would be scenario 1 -- the border becoming an academical exercise.

------
tacone
Hello Liberland, welcome to the 21st century, where you can't call yourself a
sovereign nation until you get your own first level domain. (and even then...)

~~~
icebraining
Nowadays they probably could get one - all they need is $250k and a few
servers. ".liber" is still unclaimed:
[https://gtldresult.icann.org/application-
result/applications...](https://gtldresult.icann.org/application-
result/applicationstatus)

------
Thiz
Start with prostitution, drugs and alcohol and you will see an inflow of cash
to get it all started.

~~~
jedmeyers
Ah, the mythical better state, with blackjack and hookers.

~~~
psykovsky
Netherlands, you mean?

------
c3o
Wikipedia has some more info:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberland)

------
funkyy
The one thing that project fails to see is that no small nation can be
independent without full and unrestricted access to sea or at least proper
airport. Sounds like the idea was created by utopians or hobbyist rather than
people that know anything about creating country. Or scammers, but hopefully
thats not the case.

~~~
elmar
Landlocked countries
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landlocked_country](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landlocked_country)

Some very small countries examples: San Marino, Liechtenstein, Andorra.

~~~
funkyy
I didn't said it is impossible, I said it will not allow you to be truly
independent. San Marino - under Italian influence. Liechtenstein - Germany.
Andorra - Spanish/French.

If you would do research on them you would see how many things they are not
allowed to do by their neighbor. And how many things the country is forced to
do. If they would start making issues, they would be just destroyed by
economical blockage.

MAJORITY of landlocked countries are dependent on others. Only countries with
established history and reputation can to some extent be independent, like
Switzerland.

------
joliv
"Third smallest sovereign state?" Atlantium would beg to differ ;)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Atlantium](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Atlantium)

------
morgante
Why is there a Facebook logo in the footer, which simply links to Facebook?

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liberlandnews
Get the latest news via Official Liberland News Facebook page.
[https://www.facebook.com/liberlandnews](https://www.facebook.com/liberlandnews)

~~~
borisreitman
The official page is facebook.com/liberland

------
denzil_correa
Oh, a Micron-nation. Not the first one though.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_micronations](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_micronations)

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
I'd think a micron-nation to be quite different to a micro-nation.

~~~
gpvos
A lot smaller, for starters.

~~~
jamiesonbecker
So what is the theoretical population limit for a micron-nation?

~~~
gpvos
I guess it depends roughly on how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
(A micron is a micrometre, which is a thousandth of a millimetre.)

~~~
jamiesonbecker
That's a hard point. What if the micron-nation is inhabited entirely by
selfless individuals?

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kiba
I'll believe it when it is successful.

Running a country is hard, ideology or not.

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al2o3cr
Will they be setting up a free market for children?

[https://mises.org/library/children-and-
rights](https://mises.org/library/children-and-rights)

~~~
gpvos
Well, that was an interesting read. There are going to be a lot of children
with attachment disorders in such libertarian countries.

~~~
jerf
Are you seriously proposing that the primary reason that people invest in
their children is that it is mandated by law?

I understand how people want to give the government credit for a lot of
things, but are you really going to hand them credit for _your own care for
your children_?

(I suspect this falls under the category of "being in such a hurry to say bad
things about someone you disagree with that you don't stop to think the full
implications of the insult through".)

~~~
drdaeman
I seriously wonder what would be the reason to have a child (or to keep a
pregnancy) if a person don't want one and is not going to feed/care for one.

Guess, even the weirdest pro-pregnancy activist would figure out abortion
would be a much more humane way of killing than starving to death.

------
espectalll123
:3

~~~
espectalll123
Honestly, I find a purely libertarian country to be an exciting and great
project. Yet it may be too great to be achieved. With a territory of just 7
km^2 and with almost nothing at all already done (no people, no economy, no
buildings, no services…) it pretty much seems as an utopic idea and like the
country won't last too much. Just hope they get some progress soon…

~~~
Y-bar
> a purely libertarian country

… which does not accept citizenship requests from Syrians, Kurds, Arabs,
Russians and Chinese …

Not very libertarian in my opinion.

(Source:
[http://liberland.org/en/forum/?threadID=5510225855311e5b0b0c...](http://liberland.org/en/forum/?threadID=5510225855311e5b0b0cf))

~~~
cesarbs
That was a troll post (see other comments in this thread).

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fasteo
Just for reference, this country is about the size of a soccer field [1]

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unusual_units_of_measur...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unusual_units_of_measurement#Football_field_.28area.29)

~~~
Oletros
7 km^2 doesn't equal 7.140 m^2, is is 1.000 times bigger

~~~
elmar
It's bigger than the Vatican or Monaco.

~~~
tptacek
As are, for instance, many college campuses, many business campuses, and of
course lots of farms. The Vatican is microscopic.

~~~
babuskov
The point was that it is larger than some existing countries.

~~~
njloof
And you can launder a lot of money in a soccer field.

