
Why I’m Going to India - denzil_correa
http://www.thegatesnotes.com/Topics/Development/Why-Im-Going-to-India
======
aashaykumar92
I'm seeing a lot of "What Mr. Gates is doing is great BUT [insert negatives]".

Timing is everything. IMO, this is the perfect timing to start a mission such
as the one Mr. Gates is. Why? Well having just been to India last year, my
cousins were complaining about how India is filled with geniuses, yet very few
who want to take risks (whether it be to help fix the poverty, the political
system, or just start cool companies). A couple months after I got back from
India (I live in the States), I was talking to my cousins and they were
telling me how some cities in the south are really starting to embrace a tech
culture and were trying to resemble that of Silicon Valley. And it's grown
magnitudes since then; in fact, in recent months, there have been a lot of
posts on HN about India's tech expansion.

So Mr. Gates says it well: _"To make real progress on the problems of the
poorest, you need at least two ingredients: a deep understanding of the
problems, and the technical ability to solve them."_ He probably is going
there to better understand some of the problems that exist, but I bet he also
understands there are a lot more people there that can help solve these
problems. He's a pretty smart guy, I trust he'll actually do good on his visit
and it will be constructive to India and its people.

~~~
chailatte
Bill gates can't fix

\- apathy from upper/middle class towards lower classes

\- willingness from normal citizens to live with human feces on the streets,
eat in restaurants with huge garbage piles right in front

\- spinelessness/cowardness from the voting public

so what if there are smart people in india? they are
spineless/uncompassionate/unfeeling/unprideful.

~~~
Cherian_Abraham
_Update - Just realized I just fed a troll. Moving on!_

Whoa! Hold on there cowboy!

What have we told you about sweeping generalizations??!!

Not every person in India wakes up every morning to fix social issues. They
wake up every morning to go to work, feed their families and you know..do what
you and I do - when we turn the other way to the glaring poverty and injustice
that is visible in our communities.

~~~
iamshs
He does look like a troll, always getting top comments on India centric
pieces.

------
dwc
What's up with HN lately? It seems like being contrary to contrarian is the
new thing these days.

Bill Gates is someone I admired at first, because he built something huge from
humble beginnings. Then I reviled him for the damage I saw him cause to the
industry. Then I admired him again for the global effect he managed. He is a
single person trying to do the best he knows how for humanity at large.

If anyone thinks resources would better be spent in, say, LA, please earn huge
loads of cash and make it happen. Much to your chagrin it might benefit
someone in India as well.

Bill Gates seems genuinely concerned with elevating the level of humanity as a
whole, and if you oppose that? Is this a zero sum game? No, it's not.

~~~
Retric
He had a large enough trust fund to never need to work a day in his life, so I
don't see where you get humble beginnings.

~~~
jussij
> I don't see where you get humble beginnings

He is the son of a lawyer and a college drop out.

~~~
jussij
I guess the HN reality is he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and
never had any impact on the IT world.

------
curiousDog
Mr.Gates is obviously doing this with good intentions, I'm not sure how much
this is going to actually help India though.

Having lived in both places, I think India and Africa pretty much have the
same deep-rooted culture/religion problem of ignorance, corruption and
generally not giving a shit about others. Throwing tons of aid at them isn't
going to solve anything. This sort of culture has been accumulated over
centuries and isn't going to go away anytime soon. In India, we could actually
start with trying to emulate Scandinavian countries considering the number of
educated folks we have, but that probably isn't going to scale.

Mr.Gates is trying to solve a NP-hard problem here.

~~~
denzil_correa
> I think India and Africa pretty much have the same deep-rooted
> culture/religion problem of ignorance, corruption and generally not giving a
> shit about others.

>This sort of culture has been accumulated over centuries and isn't going to
go away anytime soon.

I agree with the overall sentiment in your post. Some more explanation about
the culture in India which is accumulated over "centuries" would be nice.
Which centuries are we talking about?

~~~
harichinnan
Caste System(More like Racism. Keeping groups of people away from economic
opportunity), Families where people have been desperately poor for
generations(poor people create more kids on average and most of them end of
poor and desperate)... 100's or millions with no primary education/even
literacy...

~~~
statictype
Can you give me examples of this caste system probem?

After actually living in India for some time - my impression has been the
opposite - overzealous affirmative action

~~~
phaus
If you're in a position where you even have to submit a resume or deal with an
organization that even knows what affirmative action is, you are already in a
better caste than the majority of India.

~~~
statictype
The affirmative action is dictated by the government. Not private
organizations - especially at the education level

------
tn13
Last time I was in Pune Gates arrived in Pune unannounced by a private plane
and straight away drove to the red-light area (prostitution business area) to
meet the social workers there. A lot of local politicians rushed to the place
for photo ops. He had to virtually physically fight his way out from them.

~~~
phaus
If they're anything like our politicians, they didn't have to rush anywhere.
They were probably already in the red light.

------
kailuowang
If seeing how the poorest live is the purpose of this trip, I am not quite
sure I understand why meeting Aamir Khan, the Bollywood star, is a highlight
of it and the only one that has a picture in the beautiful poster. What I do
sense there is a little bit heroism - he feels like a superhero(and justly
so). It's just interesting that every time I hear about Gate's foundation and
the wonderful stuff they did, there were also some other high profile name
mentioned, be it Warren Buffet or Mark Zuckerberg. Maybe it feels even better
to work with other people who also has super hero power?

PS: I have nothing against that mentality. It's just that now I realized it I
am more curious about it.

~~~
tokenadult
I was startled by the mention of Aamir Khan (who I first learned about by
watching the movie Three Idiots) until I did some looking up. I see that Khan
is now a social activist, and he has recently been designated a program
"ambassador" by UNESCO. Khan apparently cares about his country and its
problems, and is using his star power to promote change.

[http://movies.ndtv.com/bollywood/aamir-khan-on-time-cover-
as...](http://movies.ndtv.com/bollywood/aamir-khan-on-time-cover-as-india-s-
first-superstar-activist-261185)

[http://time100.time.com/2013/04/18/time-100/slide/aamir-
khan...](http://time100.time.com/2013/04/18/time-100/slide/aamir-khan/)

[http://www.hindustantimes.com/photos-news/Photos-
Lifestyle/a...](http://www.hindustantimes.com/photos-news/Photos-
Lifestyle/aamirkhanunicef/Article4.aspx)

------
aresant
India has some incredibly promising science in the pipeline that has the
potential to change the world such as, for instance, a true male
contraceptive:

<http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/04/ff_vasectomy/>

I love that he highlights that he's going to "Discuss how Indian-made vaccines
can save lives in other countries too. . ."

Very cool - I hope that his mission helps bear light on the fact that these
emerging world economic powers have much to contribute to the world besides
the often reported technology-piracy.

------
droopyEyelids
I'd really like a picture of Bill G shaking hands with someone who is
basically starving in India. It'd be a picture of the richest person in the
world standing with the poorest person in the world, and it'd be a cool
testament to the inherent complexity of life.

~~~
aditgupta
I will certainly not call it "cool"

~~~
droopyEyelids
It'd be far cooler than the conspiracy theories and assumption of malice that
mediate poor and rich relations right now.

------
anuraj
India would prosper if it is not governed like an empire from Delhi. Each
ethnic state must form a republic with full autonomy and power should reach
into the hands of citizenry.

------
androidb
If you haven't already I urge you to watch the BBC Documentary on India:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpdoRUMeshw>

This is the first part, there are 2 more. It's an incredible journey that
helps you understand better the problems they're facing.

------
jyothi
Gates is finding a sample where (India) it is easy to implement solutions
(knowledge of understanding, having a support system to solve the problems)
and then take them to the larger audience. It is debatable if food & nutrition
issue of India or Polio in India is comparable to problems in Mosambique or
Brazil.

It seems like the basic problems of food, shelter, hygiene, health and
education are basic needs and can be solved in similar ways across the nations
without having to depend on govt policies.

I think this is a very sound approach. He should however pick a smaller
geographical region than India.

------
jongraehl
Ranbaxy is an anomaly, right?
[http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/14/business/global/ranbaxy-
in...](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/14/business/global/ranbaxy-
in-500-million-settlement-of-generic-drug-case.html)

------
tn13
Bill Gate's work is amazing but yet the same I wonder why is he meeting people
like Amir Khan who are nothing but hypocrites. I am pretty sure Gates will
figure out this on his own. :P

------
kumar_navneet
To remove poverty providing good education is the best way which will lead to
all other things like population control, erasing corruption etc.

------
marcosscriven
While what he's doing is obviously good, I am uneasy with the whole idea that
one man accumulates so much wealth in the first place, and then decides as an
unelected individual what's best for a country. Having said that, I'm not sure
i have a particularly good answer to this conundrum.

~~~
sharkweek
It took me a while to understand this thinking but deep down I end up agreeing
-- this "billionaire with a heart of gold" is far too familiar to the old
thought of "I hope the king is just." We far too often end up with
billionaires using their money to fund an art museum or ballet for rich people
in the name of charity
([http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_...](http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer)).

Living in Seattle, I have several friends who work for the BMGF and there is
no doubt they are doing amazing things in the world, but the cynic in me still
struggles with the idea that a private citizen is deciding how and where to
help. Not like I particularly trust the state to handle these decisions either
though, so I am normally left scratching my head and just trying to appreciate
the good that Gates is ultimately doing.

~~~
MartinCron
_We far too often end up with billionaires using their money to fund an art
museum or ballet for billionaires in the name of charity_

You seem to imply that there's something wrong with funding art museums or
ballet... The world needs beauty in it, and if people choose to support the
arts in a way from which we all benefit, that's great.

~~~
yitchelle
"The world needs beauty in it, and if people choose to support the arts in a
way from which we all benefit, that's great."

Try to explain why the world needs beauty to the folks of the slums of Mumbai
and how this beauty will benefit them. I would imagine that the only beauty
that they could find is a hope that their children will get out of the slums
and live a more fortunate life than there are now.

I always find it strange that to raise money for charity, sometimes an event
(ball, art auction, concert etc) is needed to generate the donations. Why not
just short cut the event and just collect the donations?

~~~
MartinCron
Art is a pervasive part of all human cultures. To imply that people in the
slums of Mumbai somehow can't appreciate beauty is to rob them of their
humanity.

There's no reason why you can't support both hunger and arts charities.

------
senorcastro
Because everyone loves butter chicken.

------
thoughtcriminal
Godspeed Bill!

------
narrator
If he's like most westerners who go to India the first thing he's going to say
is that these people should learn to use toilets and not throw their trash in
the street.

~~~
pekk
Do those people have nice strong flush toilets in their houses? Regular
sanitation service they can afford? Are there third parties which go around
cleaning up? Once these things are in place like in the developed world then
you are entitled to blame their personal behavior for the problem.

------
chris_mahan
Uh, there's plenty of poor people in America. There are kids at my son's
elementary school who don't have enough food. In Los Angeles. In California.

~~~
knocknock
If there's a chance to help more lives elsewhere I think he should do it. Why
should he limit himself to America? I don't really understand what you're
trying to get at with this comment.

~~~
chris_mahan
I just want to point out that there are very poor, desperately poor people in
America, and that perhaps his statement "But we don’t have everyday experience
with the problems of the poorest. We don’t see people living in extreme
poverty next door or pass by them in a slum down the street. " might lead some
to think otherwise.

Yes, there are worse places, and while I've never traveled to Mumbai, I do
know people who live there, and there are plenty of people with money there,
and it's not all slums.

There are rich everywhere, and there are poor everywhere. The reasons for
poverty are diverse. It's not: America is rich and India is poor as he seems
to show.

But what do I know...

~~~
crapshoot101
Chris, I've lived all around the world - I literally have not seen worse
poverty than Indian slums (and yes, this includes multiple countries in
Africa). From a marginal benefit perspective, the gains in India are enormous.

~~~
chris_mahan
Ok, so what can he do? I mean, let's say he spends 10 billion dollars, on 100
million people. That would be $100 each. I don't suppose there is any way to
insure that all these people get their $100, because of the problem of
distribution, identity verification, etc. You can't mail them a check. You
can't mail them cash. You can't trust local delivery men to do the job
(they'll pocket it and say they delivered, or they'll get robbed). If you try
to provide a service, you'll get knocked down by the bureaucracy. Look at the
fiasco around providing identification cards for the poor (see
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unique_Identification_Authorit...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unique_Identification_Authority_of_India)).
In my opinion, the best way to help the poor in India is to help India become
a more prosperous nation, and as such, help the development of education,
industry, public safety, environmental safety, research and development, and
cultural identity within diversity. This is something the governments of India
(national, state, and local) have generally pursued vigorously since
independence more than 60 years ago. That the problem with poverty and
illiteracy is still so pronounced only demonstrates the magnitude of the task.

Look what a long letter I write... I would suggest that the only way to help
the people of the slums is for the rest of the people of India to want to help
the people of the slums. There has to be a mindset that the majority of people
in India adhere to, namely, that poverty is not acceptable, and that the
factors that enhance poverty are to be remedied, even if this means pushing
aside long-held traditions and ways of doing things.

Which is a tall order, even for Bill Gates.

So instead he goes after specific problems, such as polio, and it's all good,
don't take me wrong, but, huh, it's not nearly as impressive in the grand
scheme of things as it's made out to be.

~~~
crapshoot101
I think this is an absurd standard. For want of perfection, he should do
nothing? What he's doing has shown clear impact. I'm a skeptic on much of NGO
land, but the Gates foundation is better than most and has hard gains to show
for it.

Gates is working in India on education, on environmental safety, on sanitation
(seriously - I've heard talk repeatedly that his number one goal right now is
a better toilet / sanitary mechanism) - these are things that will directly
advantage India in the long run. As for the Indian government... well, the
road to hell has been paved with good and not so good intentions - suffice to
say that has not always been the goal.

FYI separate topic, but the UID is a success story by any standard (its the
world's largest biometric database by some distance) - and enables a reduction
in the wastage in the traditional channels you identified (aka, the politician
cut).

~~~
chris_mahan
I hear you.

I think he's doing good, true, better than nothing.

