

Ask HN: I just got laid off. Now what? - jinfiesto

I've just been laid off, it's not as horrible as it sounds, since I've been contemplating quitting lately, although I stifled that urge since I'd just been promoted.<p>I've been kicking around the idea of attempting to start my own business, but don't know if I have the technical foundation. As some background, I've been working as a PHP developer for the last year or so. Before that, I had no programming experience, although I've always been fairly technical. I got a Microsoft certification my Freshman year of High School.<p>I've been through fairly great pains to educate myself though, and shortly after I started programming for a living, I picked up SICP and read through it and did all of the exercises. It greatly improved my skills, and since then I've digested a good number of programming books. While I feel I have a strong theoretical background (ish), I've not taken on any major projects. Most of the work I've done over this last year has been maintenance on an already completed accounting/shipping/receiving etc... system. I haven't had too much time to pursue projects other than working through books like SICP and a few other textbooks like "Concepts, Techniques, and Models of Computer programming" as I am also a full time student as well as a competitive pianist. I was also working full time.<p>Financially, I am neither in a good place or bad. I already freelance successfully, and even without my full time job, on average my freelancing covers about 1.5 times my monthly expenses (about 800 dollars.) I'll have a few grand set aside when I leave at the end of this month.<p>I have some experience using several frameworks and have implemented trivial projects in Django, Rails and Seaside. (Seaside was by far my favorite.) However, I am very lacking in my understanding of lower level computing details as well as systems administration (non-existent.)<p>I'm also 19, I don't say this to try and impress you, but I've encountered a fair bit of ageism working in technology. I think I'm competent, but a lot of people don't seem to be willing to give me a fair shake because of my age, or aren't willing to compensate me fairly. (I don't make outrageous demands). As an example, I was being paid less than 15 dollars an hour to do full time web development. I was happy with this because the environment was great, I had an office, dual monitors and a beast of a machine, so I felt pretty taken care of.<p>I guess my dilemma is this. Do I attempt to start a business or do I continue educating myself and freelance to pay the bills? Regardless of what I choose, I will still be a full-time student...
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mechanical_fish
_I don't make outrageous demands._

It is never too late to start. ;)

Seriously: Don't work for $15 per hour. Learn what you need to learn in order
to charge $75 per hour. Some of that may be technical, but I sense that a
stumbling block is that you have not learned to _ask_ for $75 per hour --
otherwise you would not be so "happy" with so little. Be less happy! Be
pickier about your clients and make higher demands, of them and of yourself.

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=182369>

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1880501>

~~~
jinfiesto
This is where the ageism and the relative inexperience comes in. I think I
have a solid foundation, but being 19 and not having a ton of work experience
has gotten me laughed at before. That being said, I'm pretty sure I can pass
just about any programming interview test designed for the average programmer.

~~~
fleitz
Prove them wrong. Do you own thing.

------
brianwillis
Go to Bangkok. No really.

[http://www.expatsoftware.com/articles/2008/05/laid-off-
one-t...](http://www.expatsoftware.com/articles/2008/05/laid-off-one-thing-
you-absolutely-need.html)

If you can do freelance work from anywhere in the world, then this advice is
doubly true.

~~~
jinfiesto
I would really love to do this, although since I already took some time off of
school, this isn't really an option right now :/

~~~
notahacker
I was also going to post that blog entry.

Don't let budget constraints deter you, particularly if you are able to get
some freelance income whilst travelling. You'd be surprised how inexpensive it
can be provided you're comfortable in low standard accommodation.

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mkinnan
My advice ... continue to freelance. As every student knows, some weeks are
just busier than others and leave you with zero free time. If you were running
a business, how would you handle those busy weeks? Would you sacrifice
studying or writing reports for your business?

The great thing about freelance is that you can do it whenever YOU choose! If
you decide to take a few weeks off from freelancing to study for final exams,
you can do it. Running a business will not necessarily give you that
flexibility.

Best of luck!

~~~
jinfiesto
Haha, I had thought about the course load. It's not really a concern. I'm
pretty pro at school. I'd be a professional student if it paid real money.

Although, you're probably right about the business thing being way more than
full time. That's something I've been worried about.

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usamaqasem
The question is do you feel you are ready to start your own business or is it
just the fact you lost your job. My advice to you, having the idea of starting
your own business is great and I encourage to do this if not now maybe later,
the feeling of satisfaction of doing something you are passionate about is
unlimited and will always drive you to do more.

Starting business is not only about knowing what you want to do or how to do
it , there is many factors you need to know before you start your own
business, like business itself, law, finance and management.

Look for a good job in the same domain you want to start your business in and
start planning your business accordingly, and try to get involved in
everything required from you to succeed.

Having your goals set in early age is great.

Good luck.

~~~
jinfiesto
I was going to quit soon anyways, but now that I've been placed in this
situation, I'm just torn between educating myself further or diving into a
business.

~~~
usamaqasem
There is nothing wrong with losing your job; Steve Jobs lost his job once.
Many other successful billionaires, we all share a piece of the failure cake.

My advice is:

1- Get your hands dirty in some sort of business, but don't waste all your
savings.

2- Get into the market, talk to people and do some market studies, look for a
niche in the market, try to start in a small jurisdiction and keep notes of
everything.

3- Learn about all aspects of business, as I said before, law, finance and
management. Some marketing skills, and work on your social skills.

4- Get some entrepreneurs friends, online and better in real life.

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anonymous12345
As others have said, you need to be pickier. You seem very confident in your
ability here - why don't you carry that confidence through to negotiations?

I'm basically the same age (turning 19 in April) and doing contract work for
$85 per hour right now (still in high school), but I have a job offer at a
well-funded startup down here (Texas) that will pay a $105k salary as a senior
software engineer once I graduate in the spring.

By allowing others to take advantage of you, you're supporting their ageism.
Being great for cheap is detrimental to everyone. Either be bad and cheap or
be expensive and awesome, proving in both cases that you get what you paid for
regardless of age.

(Anonymous in case the company and/or my contracting clients who are paying
more than $85 per hour are reading this.)

~~~
jinfiesto
Well that's motivational! What kind of area are you in? Is it very urban or a
tech hub?

~~~
anonymous12345
Glad I was able to help motivate. :) I'm in a suburb now, but will be moving
to the Fort Worth area, which I'm told has a tech scene. I don't know if
anyone would call it a tech hub, but I guess it's all about perspective.

There are opportunities out there, and at the end of the day it's all just
life experience. Focus on doing something you enjoy!

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iuguy
If you're doing well freelancing then have you considered doing something to
generate passive income? It might not sound great, but a popular
wordpress/drupal plugin could bootstrap a business, and a range of semi-
popular paid plugins could be a business.

I know your concerns are mainly technical, but you've given us no idea of the
type of business you're looking at starting. If your business idea is good
enough and you think you can deliver then yes, I'd say go for it. As a single
founder though I'd like to warn you that no matter how successful (or not) you
get, it'll suck the life out of you like a vampire, so make sure it's
something you're going to enjoy beforehand.

~~~
jinfiesto
I've got a whole notebook of ideas, but in particular, I've been working on
some studio management software for my own piano studio. The market wouldn't
be very large, but turning it into a web app wouldn't be very difficult.

I'm a competent programmer, it's just the auxiliary skills that are really
lacking...

------
ig1
Grow a beard, don't tell people your age, charge more.

~~~
jinfiesto
Haha, I'm half asian. As a result, I grow really crappy facial hair.

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robotys
i`d guess the main problem are experience then. try to poke on github or code
any startup idea that you fancy. try to emulate it or better. Try to push it
into the cloud/crowd and get some feedback exchange with the user. Show the
world how you solve the problem. That's how i got my experience. That's also
how i got my new job with much higher pay raise.

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rdouble
Nobody has ever done all the exercises in SICP. Except me, after I worked
through Knuth volumes 1 through 3.

~~~
jinfiesto
I have seriously done all of the exercises in SICP. I have not worked through
all of Knuth. Number 4 is on my to-do list though.

Also, besides myself, Eli Bendersky has. He's written all the answers in an
informative blog.

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jinfiesto
Thanks you guy! This has been very helpful!

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dools
"fair shake" - you in Australia?

~~~
jinfiesto
No, I live in Nevada. Reno specifically. Is that an Australian thing to say?

~~~
dools
Well, sort of :) Kevin Rudd (our former Prime Minister) is somewhat famous for
saying "fair shake of the sauce bottle" in a TV interview, instead of the
saying "fair suck of the sauce bottle".

The "correct" version refers to sharing booze between friends, but Kevin
Rudd's version meant sharing a bottle of tomato sauce (or Ketchup as you would
say) to put on a meat pie.

People made fun of him for being too damned "clean" - ie. was he so PG rated
that he couldn't even allude to consuming alcohol?

I thought your "fair shake" may have been in reference to that.

------
thebooktocome
Party?

~~~
jinfiesto
Haha, I'm not really a fan. Not because I'm anti-social, but doing dumb stuff
with lots of drunk people doesn't appeal to me. That being said, I do from
time to time, since most of my friends are in the Greek system.

