
Samsung's folding phone breaks for reviewers - ZeljkoS
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-47970788
======
reallymental
Let's assume that they knew this was a half baked product.

Not a "first edition" product like the first iPhone, but a rushed, half baked
product, released without consideration of sales but just for being the first
in the market for this niche.

Given this assumption, why would you give it to reviewers at all ? Remember
"Vertu" ? They were the Ferrari of phones during the Blackberry era and were
_shit_. I got my hands on them as a kid and was astonished how bad they were
compared to my dad's cheap simple Blackberry. There's a reason why they were
not reviewed widely, or positively by a large margin.

Why not just do the same thing? Don't be daft and give it to the hands of
reviewers who have twitter on their fingertips and will tell everyone about
every single flaw about your device, when you know your device has flaws.

Give it to the CEOs/Sports personalities, and let them flash it around for a
few days/events, and cover up the flaws in the second edition. If it breaks on
their hands, they certainly won't care to advertise that fact, they'll just
get another phone.

If they actually thought they had finished this product, well... SSNLF is
going to notice a strong presence of gravity for the next few days.

~~~
kurtisc
>They were the Ferrari of phones

>There's a reason why they were not reviewed widely

Coincidentally, Ferrari also play dishonest games with reviewers:
[https://jalopnik.com/how-ferrari-spins-5760248](https://jalopnik.com/how-
ferrari-spins-5760248)

~~~
mi100hael
You could just leave it at

 _> Ferrari also play dishonest_

[https://jalopnik.com/ferrari-admits-to-knowingly-allowing-
de...](https://jalopnik.com/ferrari-admits-to-knowingly-allowing-dealers-to-
change-1823368905)

------
oliwarner
There are a few ways of looking at this. Most of the more engineery-types are
pointing out the inevitability of failure, the challenges trying to find a
good enough substrate to mount a touchscreen stack on, and trying to protect
an exposed external hinge from impact, and all that material engineering
science stuff that's really clever... But well besides the point.

I can't even rationalise why anybody _wants_ a folding screen.

This seems like a gimmick searching for a market, not an answer to demand. And
if this was the lowest hanging fruit for R&D to develop the next generation of
phones, I think we're finally facing real stagnation in the phone market.
Screen pixel density exceeds eyesight. Battery density limits are as far as
known science can push them. Storage is beyond what we can reasonably use. 4G
is fast enough. They've made every size of phone between a stamp and a tablet.
There's nothing left to do. Phones are as dead as the PC.

What's next?

~~~
sandworm101
>> They've made every size of phone between a stamp and a tablet. There's
nothing left to do.

Really? My dream phone doesn't exist yet. I want a phone that is reliable,
that lasts more than a few days on a single charge. I want one with two USB
connections. I want one with a proper headphone jack, and a speaker that is
loud enough to hear properly while driving (without a mount). For these
features I am willing to trade size/weight. This phone doesn't exist yet.
Until it does there remains room for improvement.

~~~
the-pigeon
Why do you want your phone charge to last more than a day? Can't you just
charge it while you sleep?

~~~
ethbro
As a Motorola lover, multi-day charge is awesome.

Sometimes you forget to charge your phone. No problem! Battery's good until
you get to a charger sometime the following day.

Also, an oversized battery / efficient chip means I can power-use my phone for
a full day without worrying about battery.

And finally, because as your battery loses capacity over time, your phone
drifts back to one-day charge, not sub-day charge.

~~~
mrguyorama
I was spoiled by a Droid Turbo. Now I can't buy anything with less than
3500mAh of battery, which severely limits my options. Too bad Motorola phones
never get software updates and are super locked down

~~~
Sohcahtoa82
Not to mention the latest offerings by Motorola have been lackluster.

I, too, loved my Droid Turbo. When I first got it, I remember driving from San
Diego to the north edge of the Los Angeles metro area over about four hours
using Waze. 4 hours of screen and GPS time and it only used about 40% of the
battery. But after 3 years, 1 hour of Waze would consume 25% of the battery.
The battery would barely last me a day, and if I was somewhere where I wanted
to take a decent number of pictures, it wouldn't last more than a couple
hours. I bought a replacement battery, but even though the battery was new, it
was built years ago and was still slightly degraded.

I ended up buying a Pixel 3. The battery is only 3,000 mAh IIRC, but it's
quite efficient. I usually finish my day with about 30-50% of the battery left
depending on my usage. Of course, it'll be a different story in 2-3 years.

~~~
mrguyorama
My Droid Turbo didn't lose much battery capacity, but it was four years old,
and everyday apps barely functioned, and random things killed the battery in
the background.

I went for the Pixel 2XL, for the battery and for the software updates. Can
plug in my phone for an hour here and there at random times, and no longer
leave it plugged in at night. I can go out or visit family with battery at 50%
and not worry about my phone dying.

Google's fast charging also seems to be more variable and "smart" than
motorola's, and doesn't seem to overheat my phone as much

------
no1youknowz
I'm really excited to see where foldable phones go.

I know it's the first version, but looking at unbox therapy and their review.
I kept on seeing the fold. [0]

If you look at reviews of the Huawei Mate X like this one [1]. Sure it's a
preview version and a bit shiny, but looks much better than what Samsung has
released.

IMHO Huawei has built a better foldable phone. Seems samsung has rushed this
out to be the first vendor to release this type of phone, a shame really.

[0]: [https://i.imgur.com/Fl7PSBx.png](https://i.imgur.com/Fl7PSBx.png)

[1]:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOqcpZj_NUg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOqcpZj_NUg)

~~~
solarkraft
Samsung might have the more impressive technology (well, we thought that
before this), but Huawei seems to have thought about the concept a bit more
(even though the technology is easier). It just makes so much more sense to
fold to the outside.

~~~
Someone
_”It just makes so much more sense to fold to the outside.”_

It may make less sense if the bended part of the screen isn’t as strong as
conventional flat screens.

There’s a bit of a catch-22 there: you either fold the screen to the inside to
give it some more protection, or you fold it to the outside to have a screen
on the outside and increase the bending radius.

I don’t know enough of the technology to say what’s the better choice, but it
seems it isn’t a trivial decision to make. If it were, the two companies would
have made the same choice.

~~~
jandrese
Folding it out lets you use half of the screen and treat it as a normal
(almost hand sized) phone for regular day to day stuff, and only unfold it
when you really need those extra pixels.

Protecting the screen from damage is an exercise left up to the reader.

~~~
solarkraft
In addition to being able to reuse the same screen and cameras for folded
mode, you're folding the device flat, which means pressure will be distributed
over a larger area, requiring a less sturdy hinge (and less space).

I only speculate, but I think since it's just vapor deposited material, OLED
screens with solid backings are quite robust.

------
linsomniac
Noteworthy: 2 of the 3 reviewers I read about broke the screens by taking off
the "screen protector" the phone shipped with. It wasn't a screen protector,
it was part of the screen.

~~~
twblalock
If it is part of the screen it should not look like a removable screen
protector. Everyone is used to pulling a plastic layer off their phone's
screen when they take it out of the packaging. This thing looks exactly like
one of those.

~~~
linsomniac
I once had a friend that was complaining about their decade old microwave and
how the keypad was really looking bad, like it was going to fail at any
moment. I took a slightly closer look at it, scratched it with my fingernail,
and peeled off the protective cover, leaving a brand-spanking-new looking
keypad.

We definitely have people trained that electronics come with a protective film
over them. I mean, we clearly don't have everyone trained, but... :-)

------
hliyan
Most cases seem to be due to users mistakenly removing the permanent screen
protection layer. The company claims that the foldable screen has been tested
for 200,000 folds -- i.e. about 5 years of rigorous use.

~~~
onion2k
_Most cases seem to be due to users mistakenly removing the permanent screen
protection layer._

Let's not push blame on to the user. If the screen protection is so vital that
the screen will fail within a day without it, then the problem is that the
screen protection is removable and to easy to remove.

~~~
euler_
The screen protector is an integral part of the screen. It's not that if fails
later on without it, trying to remove it destroys the screen. It's like
pulling the contacts out of a port and complaining that the phone won't
charge.

~~~
magic_beans
The screen protector _should not be removable_ then.

~~~
Bjartr
Everything is removable if you are sufficiently stubborn.

It should be significantly more difficult to remove with bare fingers.

------
consp
While not directly comparable, the flexible flat cables in flip phones took
years to be 'good' enough to last the phone's lifetime and those moved as much
as this thing is going to. This might just be a cause of early production
models and early adopter problems and might work out later.

Note: the flex cables are not bad per se as they are also used in cubesats for
instance.

~~~
Reason077
There is currently a widely reported issue with display backlight failures in
MacBook Pros, apparently caused by a failure-prone flex cable which can’t be
replaced:

[https://ifixit.org/blog/12903/](https://ifixit.org/blog/12903/)

~~~
rasz
Its a non material dependent design defect, cable is too short.

~~~
penagwin
I mean we could argue that a different material would solve the problem too,
although yeah just making it longer also solves the problem and makes more
sense.

------
Traubenfuchs
This is the direct result of rushing to offer something that can be called
innovation after years of a draught. But foldable phones are as much a gimmick
as 3D cameras.

Phone innovation is indeed dead -for the customer, that's ok, but for the
vendors it's a nightmare.

~~~
shifto
This is definitely not a "gimmick as 3D cameras". I can't wait to replace my
phone, tablet and laptop with a single device and a Bluetooth keyboard for
whenever I need one. A lot of people I know feel the same and honestly I think
people who don't see the potential are being shortsighted.

~~~
jodrellblank
It's either going to be a _massive_ phone, or a _tiny_ laptop. It's going to
be wrapped in a case so it can prop itself up as a "laptop" with the device,
keyboard, and case all separate.

It's going to be a phone with a huge, heavy battery, or a weak laptop with
very short battery life. Running a limited phone OS or a heavy laptop OS.
You'll have to open your phone to use it, and close your laptop to take a
phonecall unless you also have a headset and are close.

This is as gimmicky as anything, possibly pending the arrival of magical
graphene technology.

------
rhinoceraptor
I don’t get why all the phone makers are set on making _bendable_ folding
phones. We have the tech to make OLEDs with near zero bezels, so it seems like
the most practical way to do this would just be to use two separate display
elements, and make the gap between them as small as possible.

~~~
zamadatix
This was the approach of the ZTE Axon M. I think it was a good way to do it as
well.

------
iheartpotatoes
I have an iPhone 7 and the Phone app periodically freezes requiring a reboot.
Let that sink in: the primary function of the phone does not work. And I
switched to Apple after too many Android issues turned me off completely.

You think we're going to nail folding screens any time soon?

~~~
jandrese
Sounds like you might have bad hardware or a corrupt install. Phone app
freezes should be exceedingly rare, to the point of nonexistence for most
users. I assume you have not jailbroken your phone?

~~~
iainmerrick
I frequently hit bugs in the Phone app in iOS too (eg can’t answer incoming
call). When I used Android it was even worse. I just assumed that was a common
experience but nobody cares.

------
AFascistWorld
I think it's simple science, no multi-layer material can withstand that
stress, but the current technological optimism made too many people believe
nothing human can't do. Like this one trader dude I tried to reason with, he
was basically "I've got money."

~~~
redwall_hp
See also: Internet responses to the AirPower cancellation. It mostly sums up
to "how dare a big company with a lot of money not be able to defy physical
laws." People seem to think they'll magically solve wireless charging over
distance as well...

------
jccalhoun
they're folding it wrong. :P

------
Abishek_Muthian
>The device the BBC handled, incidentally, was taken away by Samsung shortly
after filming was finished, so our team hasn’t had a chance to see these
issues for ourselves.

This seems a red flag, when devices involving mechanical innovation the
reviewers should insist on long term review & shouldn't term anything less as
a review.

~~~
LeonM
There can be many reasons they took the devices with them after filming. The
explanation can be as simple as Samsung UK not having enough samples for all
the journalists in London.

~~~
tooltalk
or I speculate Samsung didn't want to expose their folding implementation to
competitors, who would rush to release "me-too" copies, just before Samsung's
release.

------
iainmerrick
The main thing I don’t understand about all this is, what would be wrong with
just having two screens with a thin hinge between them?

Movies wouldn’t look as good, sure. But what else? Surely this entire product
line can’t be driven by movie watching... can it?

------
adrian_pop
That's the cost of being the first and trying to be a pioneer.

At least they don't explode...

------
Someone
My guess: that “film that went over the screen” is there because Samsung
discovered that, in one’s pocket, pressure on the outside of the device
decreases the radius of the device below its bend radius
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bend_radius](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bend_radius)).

The units reviewers have may be early versions with that extra film. That
would explain why Mark Gurman wrote _”It appeared removable in the left
corner“_.

------
saiya-jin
TBH is anybody surprised? Bendable plastics/cables that should work after
maybe 50,000 folds (few years of usage) are hard, and first iteration of
actual display? Without losing at least some pixels, backlight, contrast etc
in the area of the fold, or display actually cracking? Highly expected.

Now if they actually managed to get all things right in the first iteration,
now that would be a huge engineering achievement. They will get there, but
give them 2-3 generations

