
My time with the Steam Controller - zdw
http://tommyrefenes.tumblr.com/post/62476523677/my-time-with-the-steam-controller
======
omn1

        Truth is, there are no formulas…it’s just a big huge hack.
        I spent two months on the controls for SMB to get them perfect.
        Everything from the weird “friction” that happens when you
        change directions in the air to the 200MS delay that happens
        when you’re on a wall and pull away is based on how it feels to
        me when I play it. None of these formulas are based on physics
        concepts, they are 100% based on feel.
    

I like this. It's brutally honest and _sounds_ wrong, but the result speaks
for itself. Super Meat Boy has _great_ controls and that really makes a huge
difference. Here's to one perfectionist programmer who really cares about the
nitty-gritty details of great game design.

~~~
baby
It doesn't sound wrong, this is the best way to attain a game were controls
and movements feel great. This is my big problem with the new Counter Strike :
Global Offensive that a lot of new comers don't see. It doesn't feel as good
as old 1.6 or quake 3 or uT... It feels like developers didn't really care
about great movements and focused on other things in the game.

I can't agree more with SMB's daddy, movements are the most important thing in
the game. It's the core.

~~~
cclogg
Haven't tried CS:GO, but do you think it's related to being on console + PC?

Coming from HL/HL2/CS, the controls are very very tight, but over the last few
years it seems like most games are always xbox+ps3+pc and they never seem to
be that great for PC. Either consoles get away with a lot worse controls, or
the ports/PC-versions are just worse quality :(

P.S. I will say an example for me wasn't CS:GO, but some of the newer Call of
Duties. Which is ironic because the first Call of Duty back on PC was actually
one of the few games that could contend with Valve-quality FPS controls (I
felt).

~~~
rangibaby
Source engine games all feel like you are ice skating. HL1 and CoD1 have one
thing in common: they are both based closely on engines by id, whose movement
and guns feel really "solid"

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beloch
The Steam controller gives up the physical buttons platformer games are
designed for in order to provide higher resolution input for other genres,
such as FPS's. This review is therefore looking at one of the Steam
controllers weak points, so a positive verdict on a prototype is very
encouraging.

Another interesting feature of these touchpads is that they may prove more
durable than traditional joysticks. Even though I don't game much these days,
I've still managed to wear out the sticks on one Xbox360 controller and the
D-Pad on another. If the clicking mechanics on the Steam controller pads are
made bomber, they should be very durable!

~~~
xsace
Encouraging but still I wasn't expecting any real issue with playing
platformers with the Steampad.

The most interesting feedbacks for the controller WILL be ones on FPS, RTS and
other mouse&keyboard games. Because we've seen a decade of failed attempts at
solving this particular issue.

------
Pxtl
If I'm getting this right, he's saying that the fact that the touchpads are
"clickable" made it into a pretty-good d-pad after they disabled the response
to touch-only movement. That is, he could rest his thumb on the touchpad (like
you would a d-pad) and then have it only respond to the "direction" of his
press when he pushed hard enough for the click. In this state it seemed to
satisfy him as a proper hardcore d-pad.

That's really neat. I wonder how many fake "buttons" you can map onto the
touch-surface before it starts getting crowded. 4? 8? 9?

I see the challenge, though, with providing some kind of "nubs" without
screwing up its usability as a pointer-surface. Even switching betweeen
smooth/rough in the button-zones or putting simple bulges could make it feel
bad as a pointer.

~~~
leishulang
I don't think it's as simple as making a touch sensitive surface map for
buttons. Take this for exampe: in Xbox controller, you can have you thumb
touching "a" and "b" at the same time, while you can either click "a" or "b"
while touching another. Try doing that on a steam controller.

------
MikeCapone
For those interested in the development of the game Super Meat boy, the
documentary _Indie Game_ follows the two developers during the making of the
game, as well as the makers of Fez.

[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1942884/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1942884/)

I thought it was a good film.

~~~
superails
Second that. The greatest thing about that movie is that it doesn't glorify
being an indie game developer at all. Watching that movie is one of the main
reasons I've held back from just giving up my FTE position and going off on my
own. I feel like I'm just not young enough anymore, and you really have to
have a certain kind of support from those around you.

It also shows how obsession plays a huge role in the potential for success.
Not all who are obsessed are successful, but it is a large factor. That's not
to say that obsession is good. Unfortunately, it often places emphasis on
something that really does not matter in the end. But, for the few that have a
crazy idea and try to bring it to fruition, hopefully it is something they
look back on later in life as a good thing, whether it was a mistake and they
learned from it, or whether they grew as a person because of it.

If people could obsess about doing something that helped others, that would be
much better, but not everyone has that tendency, and maybe super meat boy
really had a positive effect on a lot of people making the world a better
place- I don't know.

------
Brakenshire
If you don't mind a link to Kotaku, there are some interesting impressions on
there, particularly this bit:

> "This sounds weird, but it's almost like rolling two weighted trackballs
> that are too large to actually fit into the controller," Lambe said as he
> tried to explain what it's like to have one's thumbs on those two trackpads.
> "For camera controls, slide one thumb to the right, and you'll feel this
> ticking, like you're turning a physical control. Flick your thumb quickly,
> and this imaginary physical thing reacts like something with weight to
> it—the 'trackball' continues to roll for a bit, eventually coming to a rest.
> And since it's all controlled through the software, the same trackpad then
> becomes more like a mouse or a laptop trackpad when you're navigating
> through menus."

[http://kotaku.com/valves-controller-has-been-tested-here-
are...](http://kotaku.com/valves-controller-has-been-tested-here-are-some-
impre-1415579308)

------
300bps
_If you were to ask me to choose between Steam Controller and a 360
controller, I would choose 360...if tomorrow all game controllers were wiped
off the earth and the only option was the Steam Controller, I don’t think this
would be a bad thing._

Resounding endorsement.

~~~
tylerkahn
I think it actually is considering that both games he played were platformers
(SMB and Spelunky).

The 360 controller is pretty much the ideal controller for that genre so if
the Steam controller can reach parity that's a big deal.

The real test is how it performs with twitch FPSs and games like DOTA.

~~~
StavrosK
As someone who has wasted a lot of their life on DOTA2, I can't see me playing
it with a controller. There's just too much accuracy involved in clicking for
that (and that's saying something, because the accuracy required is nowhere
near that of an FPS).

~~~
sliverstorm
Does DOTA2 really require that much less accuracy? I've found in FPS games,
the amount of accuracy required is often proportional to the time you have to
make the shot, while in DOTA2 it goes the other way- the more units on-screen,
the less time you have to act, and the more difficult it is to select the
right unit.

~~~
StavrosK
I guess it depends, if you're sniping you need a lot of accuracy. Then again,
I can't say I've never ultied a creep...

~~~
sliverstorm
Right, but if you're sniping you generally have time to chose your shot, and
more than a few seconds to make it. In DOTA2 in the middle of a teamfight, the
whole tide of the engagement can change in 1-2 seconds, and when there's
creeps everywhere it can get more difficult to mouse-select your target.

------
NoodleIncident
For some reason it never occurred to me that you can use the right touchpad as
buttons. It makes perfect sense, though.

Are there 4 buttons under each pad, or is one button, with the differentiation
purely based on your thumb position? If it's the latter, that's impressive.

~~~
addandsubtract
I imagine it's similar to an old iPod's click wheel. Only tuned to be more
precise, easier to click / press and overall more accurate.

With that said, I agree with the author in that I enjoy buttons on my
controllers. I need to physically press something. Playing SMB, for example,
on a touch screen just doesn't feel right. I'm also worried about how pressing
multiple buttons on the same touchpad is going to work. Are the diagonals
going to act as a combo-press?

~~~
baq
from what i've read, you can bind any section of the track wheel to whatever
you want - so in this case, probably not a combo press.

as for needing to press something, there's this new haptic feedback stuff.

------
kayoone
The Steam controller is a compromise, a sort of "one-size-fits-all" solution
to game controls and something like that is incredibly hard to pull off. From
reading this it sounds like Valve are on the right track though, as it seems
to be decent for platforming games. Now i am really curious on how it performs
in a classic FPS or MOBA.

------
Mikeb85
The nice thing about touch pads for controllers is that you can create new
button layouts, or have them change in game. I just bought FIFA 2014 for
Android, and it really adds new possibilities. A low latency touch input with
controller like feedback would add alot of interesting new control schemes...

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georgemcbay
This blog post seems to confirm my suspected fears for this controller
(mentioned briefly in the end of this HN reply):

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6458430](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6458430)

I knew Valve wouldn't produce something that was just garbage so I figured it
probably worked reasonably well, but I also suspected at the end of the day it
was a compromise solution that didn't really work as well as the existing one
(though to be fair it is trying to solve two problems, the traditional console
controller issue and the mouse/keyboard issue). I'm not convinced such a
compromise needs to be made as wireless 360 controllers exist, and wireless
mouse/keyboards exist (in many form factors).

I'll still try the Steam controller myself (when/if it is available to demo
without buying), they still have time to make it even better since it is now
in alpha. But given his leadup about controls being very important to him
matching my own game playing, I suspect when I have a SteamMachine I will be
using the wireless 360 controller or a wireless mouse/keyboard on my coffee
table (depending upon game being played) and not these compromise controllers.

~~~
phamilton
My question is not so much "Is it an acceptable substitute for current
controllers?" Rather, I'm curious about whether it enables developers to do
things that traditional controllers cannot do. This review is really about
backward compatibility. It seems to be backward compatible enough to be worth
buying for a niche game that requires it since I can still use it for
traditional games. That's what separates this from say, a guitarhero guitar.
The backwards compatibility will make it more likely to succeed, while opening
doors for innovation.

~~~
Mikeb85
+1

There's so many possibilities for this controller. Between software 'buttons'
on the touchpads, swipe gestures, the pointing ability, and also the
touchscreen, alot of innovation in control schemes is possible.

------
Nogwater
Interesting that the functional prototype was 3D printed.

~~~
cdawzrd
Considering that an injection molding run takes ~$100k minimum to start up,
it's not that surprising.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
There are other methods of small scale manufacture though, it's not like 3D
printing is the only alternative.

------
sgt
I clicked because I wanted to see something controlling a steam engine. Oh
well.

------
PhasmaFelis
Oh, wow. I hadn't realized until this review that the thing has four distinct
shoulder buttons and four underpad triggers. That's eight full buttons that
are accessible while keeping both thumbs on the pads--better than any console
gamepad I've seen! I feel better about the thing in general, now.

------
jophde
The only test that matters for this controller is, can it be used to play
StarCraft 2 competively? There is no gamepad out there that can play RTS well
right now. This the problem that needs solved to bring PC gaming to the living
room in my opinion.

~~~
mherkender
"The living room" isn't about meeting the needs of every PC gamer, because
what meets the needs of every PC gamer is the PC.

StarCraft 2 requires dozens of buttons, and isn't even on Steam. It's not
going to happen anytime soon.

~~~
jophde
From
[http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamController/](http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamController/)

"Whole genres of games that were previously only playable with a keyboard and
mouse are now accessible from the sofa. RTS games. Casual, cursor-driven
games. Strategy games. 4x space exploration games. A huge variety of indie
games. Simulation titles. And of course, Euro Truck Simulator 2. "

They _do_ expect it to work with RTS.

~~~
mherkender
Interesting! I gotta say, I find it hard to believe it. RTS games generally
have to be designed around a controller, much more so than other games. Maybe
they're doing exactly that for Dota 2?

I can't even imagine how a game like StarCraft 2 would work on a controller
like this.

~~~
jophde
Maybe the key is that it just has so many more potential inputs? There are
buttons all over the back of it and hundreds of points and gestures can be
mapped to those pads. It is comforting that Valve makes Dota 2. They have an
interest in figuring it out.

------
_random_
They took the one thing I hate about playing platformers on smartphones and
made a controller around it. Would be more impressed by pushing forward Oculus
Rift support.

~~~
mherkender
It supposedly has very advanced tactile feedback. I'm hopeful this bridges the
gap between touch and buttons. Time will tell, I suppose.

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6thSigma
I don't get why these companies keep trying to differentiate on controllers -
the controller seems to be the most refined part of modern video game
consoles.

~~~
teamonkey
Virtually every aspect of a gamepad is patented and fiercely protected.

The Achilles' Heel of the Xbox 360 gamepad is the wobbly directional disc.
Nintendo uses a sensible cross, Sony's is in segments. Microsoft had to find
an alternative which didn't involve paying a fee to a competitor for each unit
sold.

------
leishulang
sounds exactly like apple touch pad, where you can either tab or click to
register a mouse event. I hated having to click the touch pad so all I use is
tab. but steam controller uses thumb so I think I should feel ok since thumb
is stronger than forefinger.

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jcromartie
I really don't think the touchpad is going to work as well as a mouse or a
thumb-stick. After several years of iOS gaming I still loathe games which use
an on-screen "gamepad" design.

~~~
omni
They spent a lot of time in their announcement talking about how they know
that model is terrible and how they've tried to address its shortcomings using
haptic feedback. Presumably, the final product will be nothing like thumbing
over your iPhone.

------
pertinhower
Well we learned a lot about Tommy Refenes. The insights into the controller
were more vague.

