

Ask HN: Defer College? - Graduate

Hello Hacker News,<p>I'm here to ask for advice. I've gotten into college, but I would like to defer and work at a start-up in the bay area for a year. I've done a little bit of c++, java, javascript + html + css, and a lot of lsl (from the virtual world Second Life). I don't know if I would be very useful as a coder (right now), but I learn very fast, and I will learn if given the opportunity. Because I go to a boarding school on the east coast, I haven't had a lot of time (they don't give us any free time here) to code and search for jobs, but I want to know if you all think I should start contacting start-ups in the bay area for a job. I know it's a little late in the game for job hunting, but do you all think it's worth it? Or should I go to college? In case it's relevant, I would double major in Computer Science and Electrical Engineering in college. Please ask me questions if you have any!
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jchonphoenix
Go to college. I had the same thoughts as you in high school. Here's why:

1\. You're most likely incompetent. Don't take this personally. In HS, I
thought I was amazing and a genius too. It took college to make me realize
that there were a lot of smart people out there. I was the top 1% of the top
1% of my HS. And I'm definitely not even in the top 1% of my university.

2\. You think you're a quick learner and a hard worker. Most people think
they're quick learners and nobody likes to think they're lazy. Guess what,
most people are actually average. I thought I was a quick learner in HS. I got
to college and I realized that I'm pretty average. And in terms of hard work,
I don't sleep in the library and take the 8 hardest courses the university has
to offer in the same semester. So no, I don't even compare in "hard work
ethic" to some of my friends.

2\. You have a lot of theory to learn that will make you a better programmer
and school is the right place to learn it. Yes you can learn it on your own.
The majority of people think they can and some claim they do. 99% of them are
kidding themselves and actually don't.

3\. If you're at a university that pushes you (my experience is with CMU)
you'll work harder than you ever thought possible. This just isn't something
you'd do on your own because normally you couldn't fathom that this much work
was possible.

4\. You'll meet friends and professors who are much smarter than you and will
be valuable friends along the way. You'll learn from them and improve
yourself.

I don't mean to be mean, and take this with a grain of salt because maybe you
are accomplished enough to not need college. Just take this as a warning to do
a reality check, and then make sure your frame of reference is realistic. ;)

~~~
ares2012
Well said.

College is hard for a reason. It'll make you better.

~~~
lovskogen
But is it harder than working with/under somebody that's way better than you -
in "the real world"?

~~~
ares2012
I'm not sure what you mean but in my experience college tests your ability to
master a wide variety of skills and topics while work requires you to become
really good at only a few. However, it's that mastery of the wide variety of
skills that will help you be the person everyone else works for someday.

Some people don't need college, but there is a reason most people do.

------
dantle
I would never hire a highschooler to do a real demanding coding job, and I
would imagine that it's all a startup would have to offer. "A little bit of
programming" is what a lot of your peers entering college have, and they're
not jumping on the startup bandwagon or being recruited by tech companies.
College is a necessary hurdle to weed out the people who suck. If at the end
of the day the startup fails (and most do), then at least you still have your
degree. I doubt admissions officers are really going to understand why you
took a year off; after all, they're not going to be engineers.

Also, college is a terrific formative experience. I can't think of a better
way to spend my time between 18 and 22. As an engineer you can pay for it by
doing coops, which are usually $15-25/hr and you do it for six months (and get
overtime pay). I have some friends that did two and were able to make payments
on their cars and handily pay their tuition and housing.

------
buckwild
I got straight A's in high school. One of the most important things I learned
in college was how to fail (and if you don't, you aren't working hard enough).
College holds some important life lessons, if nothing else.

Some people think colleges churn out incompetent zombies, but whether or not
you get good at your craft is up to you -- get involved in projects, research,
and seek internships. This could even lead to a start-up of your own.

The best part is, worst case scenario, you have a degree to show employers you
are competent. You need to get money from somewhere (even if you are working
on a start-up)!

There are so many more perks to graduating college. I really encourage you to
go! So many great experiences await you. But as Mark Twain said, "Never let
school interfere with you education."

And to re-iterate the sound advice of those who commented before me...there's
always someone better.

------
Rondrak
What do you want to do with your programming career, or what do you think
you'd like to do?

Going to college with your major choices will teach you computer science, and
you'll pick up some programming along the way. Conversely, going to work for a
startup will teach you programming, and you may pick up some computer science
along the way.

It depends upon what kind of programmer you want to be, and what you enjoy
doing.

~~~
Graduate
My ambitions really aren't a programming career. I'd live to be able to
program whatever ideas pop into my head. I'm able to do that only with lsl.

What I want to do (eventually) is start my own company that creates technology
to aid education. I'd be lying if I said I didn't have a stack of ideas
already lined up; however, I don't have the knowledge necessary or the
capital. My end goal is to help people, and I feel as if it is time to decide
the first real step.

~~~
Rondrak
I agree with what jchonphoenix said.

If you want to be a developer of note without school, you're going to have to
work your ass off, and then once all your ass is gone you're going to have to
work up some ass debt and keep learning, except that you're not sure what to
learn next, you don't even know what you don't know, you don't have friends in
class going through the same thing or guidance from a professor. You'll be on
your own. It will be stressful, and there won't be any pretty girls to kiss.

If you want to be a developer of note with school, then you'll have an
incredibly solid foundation to build off of. And if you work on your ideas on
the side (as you should) there's nothing better than learning something in a
lecture and being able to go home and directly apply it that evening to your
own work.

You've already said that you want to make technology to aid education, so
immerse yourself in it. Get the best education you can, study the education
you're getting, not just the material you're learning. Ask yourself, "How
could this be better, how could I make some manner of technology to improve
this experience, or bring this to other people?" By furthering your education,
you'll not only be getting the tools you need to create your idea, you'll be
doing the research too. It's always better to kill two birds with one stone.

------
gexla
Depends on your situation. It sounds to me like you would like to work more
for the experience than for the money (otherwise I'm guessing you wouldn't
have much of a choice.) Just start school and code in your free time. In fact,
why not do your own star-tup(s)? People have this image of a start-up but
really any business which could bring in many on the side is great. Build
something small that could bring in $100 / month. Then keep building so that
you can hit $500 / month. Keep working your way up. Maybe that's one site,
maybe it's a bunch of things.

I would rather have 10 different income sources which collectively pay me as
much as my day job than put insane hours into one start-up which I'm hoping
will be a home run (or working for one and hoping for the same.)

You might be better off picking one major and getting out as fast as you can.
I'm not sure how much extra school would be required for the double major, but
it would certainly cost you in time and money. That's time you could be
working or coding.

~~~
Graduate
I definitely value the experience more than the money, and I would love to
start my own start-up(s). The problem with that; however, is that I don't have
the knowledge to physically build my ideas. That's what the E.E. major is for.

Maybe I should stick with the E.E. major and work on CompSi&Coding in my free
time.

~~~
gexla
Right, I would stick with the E.E. major if that's what you are more
interested in. You don't need the CS degree to be a programmer and the E.E.
degree would be enough to show that you got the brains.

As for start-up building, all the more reason to give it a go. As with
anything, you learn by doing. You know nothing about building your ideas, but
once you take a shot you learn a lot more about it. You don't need to shoot
for the stars. Try something small.

------
collegeportalme
Life is not about a start up. A start up is just going become a part of life,
and how big you make it is up to you. You might get involved in a start up
now, but i have a feeling you do not know what it is to be an entrepreneur;
and to know that, you need to go to college. Being an entrepreneur is a
process of self discovery- like enlightenment and it has to happen itself,
don't force it upon yourself. Go to college. And when you 'feel' you no longer
need to be in college, quit. If you never feel that way while you are there,
get that degree!

------
hansy
If you are interested in a startup, see if you can do small tasks for them
while you are in school. Realistically, you probably are slightly
inexperienced compared to CS grads, but perhaps you can do the odd jobs like
minor testing or bug checking.

A lot of college students get jobs anyway while in school, so there's no
reason to think you couldn't do some part time work for the startup.

The big advantage of this is you get some real-life experience and, come
graduation time, you might have a job waiting or will get kick-ass referrals.

------
ayers
Ask yourself what your priorities are with going to college. Let’s say you do
get a job for a start-up, will you set yourself a time limit of say a year
before you go to college. You will find it harder and harder to give up a job
and go to college the longer you continue to work. As others have mentioned
you can always apply for internships while you are at college. You might find
better opportunities and more doors open if you do go to college. You can
always leave collage if along the line you find a start-up that suits you.

------
warwick
Have you contacted any startups about jobs? If nobody shows any interests in
your level of experience, then you don't have a dilemma, just go to school

[Edit]

This isn't to say that if you don't have an offer firmly in hand, go to
school, but if nobody has even said 'gosh, we wish we had the money to hire
you', then you might be much better off going to school and working on some
impressive side projects.

~~~
Graduate
I haven't contacted any startups. I really only seriously started considering
it when I got into college, which was the beginning of April. However, now
that I've thought about it, I really would like to do it.

~~~
warwick
Getting into college doesn't limit you. Apply to some places you'd like to
work anyway. There's no cost associated with seeing if startups you'd like to
work for show any interest in you. That college admission will still be there
if they show no interest.

Send some emails. There's no point in us telling you to go and try for a
startup if nobody is willing to hire you.

I don't say this to be harsh.

When I was going into first year University, I was working for a startup doing
tech support and I was pretty sure that I was amazing.

I wouldn't hire the kid I was when I started in University. He was smart,
ambitious, and knew a few things, but he didn't understand business and he
didn't understand that there's a whole lot of programming that goes beyond SQL
statements.

During University I started my own business and learned a lot both in and out
of classes. I'm graduating in a couple of weeks, and I've got a good business
ready for me to focus on it.

The time I spent at school has helped me enormously, but only because I've
been working as hard as I can to make the time worthwhile.

Startups are hard, you have to be a good to great programmer to participate,
and sometimes the ambition isn't enough without experience to back it up.

~~~
Graduate
I totally agree with what you said. I will send out some emails, and see what
they say.

As for startups being hard, I'm looking for experience now, so that when I
start my own, I won't be lost.

------
tsuyoshi
If you don't already have a job offer, this is kind of moot. It would probably
be easier just to go to school and then do some internships.

~~~
Graduate
At the same time, I haven't really reached out, so I feel that I should spend
time contacting startups before I declare the search moot.

