
iRobot says robot vacuums now represent 20% of worldwide vacuum market - dudisbrie
https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/07/irobot-says-20-percent-of-the-worlds-vacuums-are-now-robots/
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catbird
Ah, they mean 20 percent of the vacuums sold this year. Since a vacuum is not
something that gets replaced each year (or every 5 years even?), it will take
quite a while for robots to reach 20 percent of all existing vacuums, if ever.

Anecdotally the only person I know who owns a roomba used to work for iRobot.

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greenshackle2
If we assume a fixed lifetime of n years for vacuums, it will take at most n
years to get to 20%.

If we assumed a half-life of n years, then robot vacuums will only ever
approach 20% asymptotically and won't ever reach it.

(We could get over 20% if robot vacuums have a longer lifespan than regular
vacuums. I'm tempted to write a simulation over different failure curves but I
really have better things to do.)

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daurnimator
> If we assumed a half-life of n years, then robot vacuums will only ever
> approach 20% asymptotically and won't ever reach it.

You shouldn't assume that they will be 20% of sales for every future year.

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wfunction
Question: how good are Roombas at actually cleaning? With an actual vacuum, I
can turn it high or low, or press it harder or easier, or stick it at weird
angles to make it clean. How good are Roombas in comparison?

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lobster_johnson
It is actually very good, by virtue of running every day (unless you change
its schedule to something else). So even though its suction doesn't compare
well to a real big canister/bag vacuum, it makes up for that in sheer level of
activity.

It's not perfect. I have a single-floor apartment with no door thresholds, yet
it keeps getting stuck. I keep cables and so on neatly organized and hidden,
but sometimes I've left a temporary charger cord or something on the floor;
this kills the Roomba. You also have to careful with plants -- it ate a whole
branch of a plant once that was hanging low near the floor. It has issues with
rugs, especially with black areas, but also just getting onto the rug. It also
loves to close the door on a room so that it can't get out; I had to buy a
couple of door wedges to prevent that, but I don't always remember to use
them. Pretty much 50% of the time I come home to find the Roomba dead in a
corner.

Its dust compartment is quite small and must be emptied at least every 2-3
days. You also have to take out the little spindle things and remove hair
which collects around the axles. Fortunately, the Roomba is _really_ modular
in design; you can take it apart completely, and there are replacement parts
for absolutely everything. It is a rare product where the designers seem to
have rejected the trend of planned obsolescence; I haven't really owned it
long enough to be qualified to judge, or taken it apart, but everything I have
seen indicates that it was carefully engineered to be repairable and last a
long time. (It's probably hackable, too.)

Despite its weaknessss, I am quite happy with it. It keeps my apartment clean
and removes the mental burden of thinking about dust. A couple of times a
month I take my Dyson to clear up some corners that the Roomba can't get to
where dust bunnies pile up. I have a friend who combines it with the cleaning
model, but I can't deal with two gadgets that leave their depleted, cable-
choked corpses around.

~~~
6DM
I wanted to confirm these findings and add something else. When my roommate
bought it, I thought it was pretty useless. Even just seeing it in action
makes you wonder how it get's anything done. It basically runs in random
patterns and takes forever.

But after I moved to a different apartment, and he got his own place. I really
saw how much work that thing was doing. I forgot how often the floors need to
be swept to keep it clean. I plan to buy one myself once I move at the end of
this month.

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Alphasite_
The newer ones allegedly dont do the random pattern thing anymore.

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lobster_johnson
The 900 series (at least the 980) has a new navigation system.

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Derbasti
Buying a neato was one of the best things we did last year. Yes, it gets stuck
under furniture ever now and then. Yes, it will freak out if you leave stuff
lying on the ground. Yes, it won't get into every corner. Yes, it really only
has 20W of power, and can thus only clean superficially. But it vacuums twice
a week, without supervision. And it even vacuums under the bed.

I'd say this has had a similar impact on our life as a dishwasher.

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DougN7
I have a roomba and never use it :( The tiny compartment that holds the dirt
is too small. And I'm constantly having to dig out my wife and daughter's
hair. Granted, it's 5+ years old - maybe they've improved. But in my
experience it just doesn't have the strength and capacity to be something
other than a conversation starter. Oh, and it keeps getting stuck in the
living room...

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danudey
Roombas aren't for deep cleaning; they're basically for the light cleaning
(crumbs in the kitchen, tufts of pet hair). Newer models are easier to
maintain (no brush to cut hair off), but you're still expected to do a proper
deep clean (with a more powerful vacuum) regularly.

Also, newer ones are automated, so you come home every day, empty the
canister, and that's your floors cleaned.

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jimjimjim
won't use one until someone includes a deep-learning image recognition module
to stop it spreading a track of cat shit all over the room

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walrus01
I read a truly disturbing story last month involving a roomba, a puppy,
diarrhea and a light beige carpet. Imagine 8 hours of unattended shit
smearing.

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tinix
Yep, we still ran our robot vacuum at a previous house even though it was hard
wood floor (helps with pet dander and such) and there were definitely a few
incidences of it running over cat throw up while we weren't home. The brushes
actually clean it up rather well, but it still gets all over the vacuum, and
leaves wet throw-up streaks all over the floor, it's horrible... but not as
bad as diarrhea, and carpet.... good god.

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Lio
As a former Roomba owner with allergies I have mixed feelings about current
robots.

The cleaning and coverage is pretty good. My Roomba didn't have massive
cleaning power but because it revisits the same spot over and over it got the
job done.

It required quite a lot of attention though, both emptying it and removing
hair and carpet fluff from it.

However the real reason I got rid of it was that I suspected that the
filtration wasn't very good and that it was just sucking up allergens and
blowing them into the air as it went.

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izacus
Did you have one of the newer models with HEPA filters?

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Lio
I didn't, so hopefully newer Roomba's should be better in this regard.

It's a difficult thing to measure though and I didn't want to take the chance
again (in the short term).

I found I got better cleaning (measured anecdotally by how much Ventolin I
use) from a high-end handheld vacuum cleaner with HEPA and changing how I
clean to include curtains, mattresses and pillows.

Definitely not as cool as having a robot though. I think that Karcher used to
make a robot with a base station that it would empty itself into, which is a
neat idea. That would cut down on the emptying.

[EDIT] I should add that the handheld vacuum cleaner has its own problems too
since it's bagless. Great in principle until you empty it into a cloud of
dust. I like seeing how much dirt is picked up but maybe disposable bags are
the best solution after all.

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davidgould
It may not seem like it there has been much change, but the 800 series and
later Roombas are vastly better than the older models.

I had one of the early 400 series and it was problematic: it required a lot of
picking up and it would get entangled on cords, carpet fringes, anything
loose. It also would get stuck and the brushes would get jammed up with hair.
So while it vacuumed ok, it required so much picking up and fiddling with that
we gradually stopped using it.

The new 805 we got at Costco (a bargain too) looks similar overall but
everything is different in detail. The new rollers don't get tangled, it
doesn't get caught on cords or fringes, it slows down and approaches walls
cautiously instead of just crashing into them, and the algorithms for getting
unstuck are effective. Now we have it set to run unattended twice a week and
the house is cleaner than it has been for years.

I recommend the 800 series (or up I guess) over the 650 that Sweethome liked
because it has the new rollers and bin so it picks up better and needs much
less hair removal and other fiddling around.

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becewumuy
I owned an Roomba and it works fine until recently its battery is going down
quickly. I'm watching Neato recently and yes it sure has an upperhand with its
patent, but the marketing is way behind iRobot.

~~~
jdeibele
Replacement batteries are relatively inexpensive and reliable. I've had good
luck with replacing the battery on a Roomba and a Mint (now part of iRobot)
via 3rd party manufacturers.

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pinaceae
Have one, relegated to cleaning the garage. Just too much issues in a
household with toddler stuff lying around (toys).

I'd pay serious money for a real cleaning robot though. Not a little disc but
something that can navigate stairs, clean higher surfaces. Currently paying
humans to do it. They have access to my house, etc.

Once that cleaner robot really exists, imagine the extensions to it. Give it
some other sensors and you have a fire alarm and firefighter. Even overall
security. Close the doors behind you. Turn off something you forgot.

Rather than put chips in every item and automate everything I'd rather have
one big thing to automate my (legacy) house. Easier to upgrade, fix plus I'd
have a fully functioning house if the logic fails.

Looking at Japan, they seem to lead in this area. Can't wait.

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mattbroekhuis
I bought one a few years back. It just gets pinned under the two pieces of
furniture that have a clearance that closely match its height. I've googled
and googled but there seems to be no way to solve it other than super glueing
some sort of makeshift horn on it and praying it doesn't crack off. It sits in
the corner now because I'm not sure what to do about it. It was a whimsical
good time for a while but ultimately a waste of $300.

I bought it at Costco so I'm considering just bringing it back, but I feel
kind of guilty after waiting so long.

I made the mistake of buying one for my parents soon after I got mine for
Christmas. Theirs eats the low hanging drapes, so it sits in the corner as
well. I always wince at it when I go over there for dinner.

Don't do it.

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hawski
I have a couch that has clearance that is almost the height of my Roomba. It
got stuck in there only once though. My idea is to increase the clearance with
some pads under the couch. Then Roomba will be able to clean under the couch
also. Lately I had to buy new furniture with no clearance at all or high
enough so Roomba can go under.

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phmagic
Dominating the robot vacuum market has never been irobots problem. They still
haven't figured out what's next.

This is a similar story to Fitbit and GoPro, once you've own the market you're
after, then what?

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mulletbum
Floor mopping with the Braava, which they are already breaking into. Gutter
cleaning with Looj, pool cleaning with Mirra.

Then on to lawn mowing. They have figured this out already, just none of them
have as much name recognition as the roomba.

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freehunter
I would love a roomba lawn mower, but with as often as my roomba runs over my
feet while it's going through its cycle, it would need some serious sensors.
And when I'm mowing, I inevitably have to pick up some sticks that fell from
my tree, or sometimes trash that people threw onto my lawn as they drove by.
It's a harder space than the living room, you can't control the outdoors quite
as much.

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JoeAltmaier
I think a slow-motion lawn mower could work. More like a turtle that crawls
around cropping the grass. Always there; maybe solar powered; keeps creeping
around and gently munching the tops off the taller stems.

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prefect42
20% seems a bit high, now perhaps if it was "20% of the world's vacuums and
Cat Antagonists" I might find that believable.

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kylehotchkiss
The consumer in me wants to try Dyson's robot vac
[http://www.dyson.com/vacuum-cleaners/robot/360eye/360-eye-
ni...](http://www.dyson.com/vacuum-cleaners/robot/360eye/360-eye-nickel-
blue.aspx)

~~~
donutz
I've got an old Dyson Animal vacuum, and I'm always impressed with how full of
dirt the canister gets. So I've got high hopes for a robotic Dyson.

That said, the reviews trickling into Amazon kind of deflate those hopes:
suction is great, but otherwise it seems to have all the kinds of problems
that all the robot vacuums have.

Definitely not something I'd be willing to plunk down a thousand dollars for.
Here's to hoping the next version is a marked improvement.

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dudisbrie
iRobot can't really see the market need while competitor like neato and LG are
offering better product with lower price. In China market, Xiao Mi and other
local copycats are also selling well.

~~~
stephengillie
Where's the innovation at iRobot? Where are the self driving garbage cans and
self driving beach coolers? Where's the quad copter that brings you a beer?
This is a neat submarine article for them, but it seems to highlight a kind of
complacency that other firms can innovate around.

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greenshackle2
More like 5%.

Let's say there's one vacuum for every 20 people (household of 4 or so, 1/2
households who can afford it own one, 1/2 households can afford it), that's
350 millions vacuums.

They've sold 14 millions robot vacuums to date, let's say 25% are broken/not
in use, that's 10 millions.

10/350 is 3%. According to some web page I just googled, IRobot has 60-65%
market share, so accounting for competitors that's 5% of vacuums.

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leecarraher
And 90% of partially broken vacuums sitting in the corner of your living room
charging indefinitely in the hopes that some day it will find a purpose.

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aplomb
When he decides to lie about the share of robot vacuums within the market
(which you can infer from iRobots "70%" marketshare) he should make sure their
financial filings coincide - complete BS.

There is no reasonable interpretation of the public data (and estimates for
privately held vacuum mfgs) where 20% becomes true. Perhaps the dataset is
their employees and found only 20% own their product? ;)

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DiabloD3
I do not own one, and I don't see the point of owning one until they can clean
as well as a real vacuum.

Can someone explain to me the draw?

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UnoriginalGuy
Most people are really bad at vacuuming regularly. A robo-vac buys you more
time between required vacuums.

If you're happy to vacuum weekly and are already, don't buy one (seriously),
but if like me you don't recall the last time you manually vacuumed then buy a
$300 Xiaomi Mi and let it do your chore for you.

Plus I've found that they get into places which people ignore (e.g. under the
bed, bottom of the closet) and dust still acculates in those places.

~~~
tibu
Can you share why you choosed the Xiaomi instead of a Roomba? Can it provide
the same level of cleaning?

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UnoriginalGuy
It costs $300. The Roomba "multi-room" 960 is $700 (and Neato $500).

It isn't superior to the Roomba 900 series or Neato. It is just "Good Enough"
and less than 1/2 the price. Ultimately it doesn't need to be better than the
competition when it is cheaper than them, it just needs to basically perform
its function.

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dharma1
Ive been thinking about getting the Xiaomi robot hoover.. its got SLAM and is
pretty cheap. Anyone tried?

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mrfusion
I wish they'd invent something to pick toys off the floor.

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planetjones
Buying an irobot was one of the worst consumer decisions I ever made. It can
only work with extreme supervision otherwise it mounts and scratches lamp
bases, gets tangled in cords or assaults plants. What's the point of having it
if you have to make the whole apartment inert before letting it loose. Worse
still it never seemed to learn and would often finish its job leaving huge
parts of the floor untouched.

And even worse, just past the warranty period the side brush which rotates to
flick dirt into the path of the irobot broke.

I guess I am part of the 20% even though the irobot sits in my cellar doing
nothing.

We bought a dyson fluffy (battery powered) recently and that's a much better
choice.

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deelowe
Pretty much sums up my experience as well. The first step in using a roomba is
cleaning the entire damn house.

~~~
freehunter
Sounds like poor expectation-setting by whoever sold you on a Roomba. I have
two dogs and a cat and keeping up with their fur is a full time job. Much
easier to run the Roomba once a day. Yeah I have to keep the floor free of
large debris, but I should do that anyway so I don't mind.

~~~
deelowe
Cleaning up includes things like unplugging lamps and moving the cords. It
includes taking all chairs off the floor and putting them on the table. It
requires adding special devices to the floor to add barriers b/c the roomba
has absolutely no learning capabilities. It includes removing rugs b/c the
roomba gets stuck on them. I could go on. It's just a poor product. These
things might be known issues, but when all of this is factored in, it really
isn't a good solution for anything but gymnasiums and dance floors. If you
have any stuff whatsoever, it takes more time and effort than a traditional
vacuum.

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Mao_Zedang
About 5 of them are Dyson, seriously where is it already?

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fred_is_fred
Until they solve the paint the living room with pet shit issue I can't buy it.

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oliwarner
Bullshit.

Headline should read, "Chap selling super expensive robot vacuum cleaners that
take ten times as long as humans, and need just as much supervision, claims
they're not irrelevant, really good Christmas present. Honest."

I'd believe that 20% of the world's new robots are vacuum cleaners though.

