
Relocating from San Francisco to Seattle: cost comparison - vtail
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=relocating+from+san+francisco+to+seattle+with+a+salary+of+$120000
======
dylanz
Weather.

I'm a Californian who grew up in a "sunny" California city, and I've been
living in Seattle for the last year. I've also spent a lot of time in San
Francisco in my lifetime.

I, miss, the, sun. Every time I go back to California and visit
family/friends, I start to realize how depressed I am up in the Pacific North
West. I've had more that one person recommend that I take Vitamin D
supplements, which is supposed to make me feel better.

The moral of my own personal story is... I'm moving back to California. I need
sun. I'll pay a premium for the mental health of myself and my children.

How many days of sun are there in San Francisco compared to Seattle? If you
had to live in a place with awesome tech scenes but with no sun, you might as
well choose Seattle... it's cheaper.

~~~
colonelxc
For me, it's the opposite. Moving down to the Bay Area from Washington/Idaho,
the amount of sun here is maddening. Seems like an unending summer of days
exactly like the previous.

~~~
axod
I'm like that when I visit CA. CA has no weather. No seasons. Just sun. It's
ok for a week or 2, but after a while for me it's like spending a year at
Disneyland. Starts to wear a bit thin. It gets tiring. I get sleepy.

~~~
timr
Trust me: if you ever have to choose between no variation in crappy weather,
and no variation in wonderful weather, you should choose wonderful. Disneyland
is better than Mordor.

~~~
axod
I'm not one of these people who thinks rain is crappy weather. Rain can be
awesome. For me, variation is the main thing.

------
portlandFan12
I'd like to put in a good word for Portland (no sales tax, great food):

[http://m.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=relocating+from+san+franc...](http://m.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=relocating+from+san+francisco+to+portland+with+a+salary+of+$120000&x=0&y=0)

~~~
sown
I originally wanted to move there but there doesn't seem to be many jobs. :(
Correct me if I'm wrong.

~~~
davidw
"There _don't_ seem to be many jobs"

~~~
ovi256
Well done, sir, well done.

------
tzs
OK, Wolfram Alpha kicks ass.

Here's the most interesting part:

| San Francisco, California | Seattle, Washington total sales tax rate | 9.5%
| 9.5%

When people from California tell me it must be nice to live in a state like
Washington, that doesn't have a state income tax, I like to torture them by
pointing out that the lack of a state income tax is made up for by a high
sales tax. Then they ask what the sales tax is, and I tell them.

~~~
gvb
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_taxes_in_the_United_State...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_taxes_in_the_United_States)

"At 8.25%, California has the highest state sales tax, which can total up to
10.75% with local sales tax included."

"Washington has a 6.5% statewide sales tax."

What am I missing???

~~~
tzs
The point is that although our sales tax is high in Washington, partly because
we do not have in income tax, it's still not as high as California, which DOES
have an income tax--and a pretty hefty income tax at that.

Hence when we tell Californians that not having an income tax is not as great
as it sounds because it means we pay an outrageously high sales tax, and then
they realize that our outrageously high sales tax is lower than theirs, it is
funny.

No ones pays as low as 6.5% here, though, because there are county and local
taxes. The state is divided into a bunch of small regions for tax purposes
(about 2.6 million locations), roughly corresponding to zip+5 regions, not not
exactly. I've got a database giving the rate in each of these locations.

Checking that database, the minimum actual sales tax is 7%, the maximum is
9.5%, and the average (giving equal weight to each location) is 8.6%.

Here are all the rates, and how many locations have each rate:

    
    
      +---------+----------+
      | rate    | count(*) |
      +---------+----------+
      | 0.07000 |    22526 |
      | 0.07500 |    12404 |
      | 0.07600 |    38365 |
      | 0.07700 |   172606 |
      | 0.07800 |   258871 |
      | 0.07900 |   174886 |
      | 0.08000 |    65948 |
      | 0.08100 |   118239 |
      | 0.08200 |   148568 |
      | 0.08300 |    43973 |
      | 0.08400 |   115138 |
      | 0.08500 |   131129 |
      | 0.08600 |   224180 |
      | 0.08700 |   210720 |
      | 0.09200 |    41020 |
      | 0.09300 |   282441 |
      | 0.09500 |   622649 |
      +---------+----------+

~~~
gvb
Ahh, thanks. I was missing the irony. :-D

------
MikeCapone
I think it's the most useful thing that I've seen WA do so far. I just wish it
worked for Canadian cities.

------
natrius
Actual cost of living calculators give better results than this. This one
tells you how much your disposable income would change by keeping the
percentile of your current salary constant:
[http://swz.salary.com/costoflivingwizard/layoutscripts/coll_...](http://swz.salary.com/costoflivingwizard/layoutscripts/coll_start.asp)

(Hint: Move to Austin.)

------
myth_drannon
Too bad it's not working for Canadian cities.

------
rdl
Also doesn't seem to take into account income and capgains tax rates; for a
single person making >120k that is a substantial cost savings on its own.

~~~
_delirium
It doesn't actually seem to take the salary you put in into account at all: it
gives the same 24% cheaper for $30,000 salary and $120,000 salary, even though
the ratios of expenses shouldn't be the same for those two cases. At the very
least, the weightings should change: someone who makes $20,000 is probably
spending more than 12% on groceries, while someone who makes $10m is probably
not spending 12% on groceries (or 10% on utilities). And the ratio of housing
prices isn't constant across all types of housing, either.

~~~
jackowayed
No, I'm pretty sure that means it's being stupid.

It gives exactly 24% less regardless of what salaries you put in and not
changing the "% of total" or anything. That means that it's figuring out the
difference in _average_ cost of living first, and then just reduces the salary
you gave by 24% to get the equivalent.

------
_delirium
A shorter move:
[http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=relocating+from+san+fra...](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=relocating+from+san+francisco+to+oakland+with+a+salary+of+$120000)

------
jwecker
The vast majority of the difference in that particular comparison is housing-
which must apply to buying houses, because comparing rents certainly doesn't
give 45% difference. So... this data is meaningless unless you own your house
here and plan on buying there, from what I can tell, which probably excludes
most of us.

Edit: OK, I'm finding some cheaper rents, but I think my main analysis stands.

~~~
modeless
There's also the fact that Washington has no state income tax; that's 10% in
Seattle's favor that isn't even accounted for (I looked up ACCRA cost of
living indices and they are after-tax).

------
asnyder
Compare to New York,
[http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=relocating+from+san+fra...](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=relocating+from+san+francisco+to+new+york+city+with+a+salary+of+$120000).

Amazing how much more expensive living in New York is.

~~~
RK
I've been thinking about moving to Houston. Imaging the difference if you had
been in NYC:

[http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=relocating+from+new+yor...](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=relocating+from+new+york+city+to+houston+with+a+salary+of+$120000)

~~~
ahi
But then you'd be in Houston. NYC is expensive because people want to live
there.

~~~
RK
Houston has many pluses. Relatively cheap living is just one of them.

On the other hand, NYC is not for everyone and cost is only one reason.

------
piramida
As usual in WA, only works with that exact input. Give it any international
city - silent fail.

~~~
badave
It works for some of the bigger cities in the US though. I was comparing where
I live now to where I lived before and it seemed pretty accurate.

------
ck2
Check out this accidental discovery, note how the graphs remain nearly
parallel over years (!)

[http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=violent+crime+in+seattl...](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=violent+crime+in+seattle+vs+san+francisco)

Weird coincidence?

~~~
jrp
I would expect the crime levels to sort of coincide over the nation. In fact,
they don't:
[http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=violent+crime+in+seattl...](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=violent+crime+in+seattle+vs+united+states)
but it does seem that they do between these two cities. It is weird.

Here's something else:
[http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=violent+crime+in+washin...](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=violent+crime+in+washington+state+vs+seattle)

[http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=violent+crime+in+washin...](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=violent+crime+in+washington+state+vs+united+states)

Hypothesis: the country at large has a crime rate. In addition there is a
magic variable which only affects cities, but affects all cities:

[http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=violent+crime+in+san+fr...](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=violent+crime+in+san+francisco+los+angeles+chicago+vs+seattle)

~~~
natrius
Is "magic variable" the new street name for crack cocaine?

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crack_epidemic_(United_States)>

~~~
ck2
According to that very page, the crack epidemic is over.

Are drugs really the source of most crime? Kinda doubt that.

------
tocomment
I'd love to see a list of 50 us cities or so with the lowest costs of living
so i could pick one to move to.

Alas I searched "Cities in us with lower cost of living than washington dc"
but wa didn't understand.

------
psyklic
The largest reduction is in housing (45% less in Seattle). However, unless
your goal in moving IS to save money, I bet that most people would pay the
same -- either upgrade to a larger place or move to a more desirable part of
town.

Also, note that housing costs are based on housing sale prices. Rent is
definitely higher in San Francisco, but it does not always follow housing sale
prices.

------
clay
Dallas:
[http://m.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=relocating+from+san+franc...](http://m.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=relocating+from+san+francisco+to+dallas+with+a+salary+of+%24120000&x=0&y=0)

Dallas, Houston and Austin are super cheap with fairly big tech cultures.
Austin might even be worth living in too.

------
Keyframe
huh? link gives me: "Wolfram|Alpha isn't sure how to compute an answer from
your input"

------
camwest
How about where my investor is from:

[http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=relocating+from+san+fra...](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=relocating+from+san+francisco+to+chattanooga+with+a+salary+of+%24120000+USD)

------
teaspoon
A Microsoft recruiter sent me something very similar to this the spring before
I graduated from college.

------
stretchwithme
hmmm...this one's a little vaguer
[http://m.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=relocating+from+portland+...](http://m.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=relocating+from+portland+maine+to+portland+oregon+with+a+salary+of+$120000&x=0&y=0)

------
houseabsolute
Edit: totally responding to the wrong post. Tabs are confusing. Sorry guys.

~~~
coryl
Wrong post?

~~~
houseabsolute
Indeed. Tabs are confusing! :'(

------
irons
Seattle could really use one of those Arizona-style harassment laws to keep
Californian prop-13 refugees out.

