
Xbox One controller cost over $100M to develop - texan
http://www.engadget.com/2013/11/18/xbox-one-controller-smells-projector/
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nostromo
I've always wondered if some of the huge R&D budgets we see are shenanigans to
save taxes under the US's R&D Tax Credit.

I certainly don't know enough to accuse anyone of tax evasion. But it does
seem to be a strong incentive to classify lots of different activities as R&D.

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objclxt
The $100 million sounds slightly less impressive if you take it to mean
controller R&D across the entire Xbox One project.

Let's assume that Microsoft started work on the console in 2007, two years
after the Xbox 360 launched. Our $100 million has now become $16 million per
year. Developing the controller is going to involve a lot of people: software,
hardware, QA, design, supply chain, fabrication, etc.

Let's say that Microsoft has a team of a hundred people working on the
controller (personally I think that's a very conservative guess). So of our
$16 million we've easily eaten up half of that in labour costs. Prototyping,
gearing and tooling up, and all the various other expenses associated with
designing and manufacturing electronics eats the rest up pretty quickly.

This is obviously 'back of the napkin', hugely simplified conjecture, but I
can definitely see how $100 million becomes a fairly reasonable figure over
time.

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discodave
> invested over $100 million throughout the course of the effort

That line is completely at odds with the title. In R&D 'alive and well' is not
synonymous with spending lots of money. The key factor for deciding whether an
R&D organisation is 'alive and well' is _output_. I.e. have they produced
novel research or developed amazing products. Another important factor is the
cost of that output. Anything is possible with an endless supply of slave
labour (or money).

In this case I think that spending 100m on a controller that has only
incremental improvements is not a sign of good R&D. It is a sign of a company
with a lot of money that is not willing to take excessive risks.

~~~
sliverstorm
Research doesn't always produce changes. If we suppose the Xbox360 controller
is nearly the most perfect a controller could be, it's easy to see how large
R&D budgets can lead to only small changes.

As for why they'd funnel a lot of money into a controller that is nearly
perfect- well, they have the money and they want to win. Isn't that enough
explanation?

~~~
objclxt
> _As for why they 'd funnel a lot of money into a controller that is nearly
> perfect- well, they have the money and they want to win. Isn't that enough
> explanation?_

The problem with regards to Microsoft's R&D budget is that they're _not_
winning. I don't have figures for this year, but last year Microsoft's R&D
budget (as listed in their annual report) was $9.4 billion, compared to Google
($5.2 billion) and Apple ($2.6 billion).

One explanation is Microsoft simply account for R&D differently. Another
explanation is that Microsoft overspend on R&D, or spend very poorly.
Microsoft have always spent very highly on R&D, but over the past few years
haven't had much to show for it in terms of growth or success.

I am sure there is some hyperbole and creative maths in the report to get to
$100 million, but where you see Microsoft investing money to perfect the
almost perfect, I see Microsoft spending far too much money on the wrong
things.

~~~
sliverstorm
What does Apple and Google have to do with Microsoft's console division?

~~~
skc
Nothing. But this is HN.

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benologist
Rewrite of [http://venturebeat.com/2013/11/18/the-xbox-one-controller-
pr...](http://venturebeat.com/2013/11/18/the-xbox-one-controller-projectors-
smells-and-other-stuff-that-didnt-make-it-in-part-1-exclusive/)

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eruditely
Research theater? Take this with a grain of salt however, research value is
non-linear and its success cycle is measured not In years or a decades even.

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xedarius
It's important, really important. Imagine how sales would be impacted if they
had not spent this money and built a crappy controller. Also factor in the
suggested tail of the console is 10 years.

I just hope they've spent a similar amount of money on making sure the damn
thing is quiet when in use.

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mostafah
Each?

~~~
robmcm
It looks like valve has spent a few hundred dollars on a 3D printer and I
expect a small team and come up with something far more revolutionary. I
wonder how it will play out.

I also wonder if this cost covers the connect too.

