

Seznam, a Czech search company, previews 3D maps - rplnt
http://beta.mapy.cz/3d?x=16.6012046&y=49.1933802&z=13&source=m3d&3dx=16.6012046&3dy=49.1933802

======
lubos
Honestly, I'm surprised to see Seznam on HN. I grew up on Czech internet in
90s and Seznam.cz (or "Directory" in English) has been huge for long time
until Google has eventually beaten them. The vibe I get here from comments is
like as if Seznam.cz is some new hot company while it is really a dying
dinosaur like Yahoo.

Maps are not core competency of this company. They are early Internet pioneers
maintaining huge portfolio of various services for almost two decades. Maps is
just another service they are working on to keep users from leaving them for
Google/Youtube, Facebook etc.

Btw, I spoke to Seznam.cz founder briefly once at some business event in
Slovakia back in 2000 when I was 17

edit: their maps are created by Melown.com, see example
[https://www.melown.com/maps/](https://www.melown.com/maps/)

~~~
izatlouk
I do disagree, that Seznam.cz would be a dying company (and not only because i
am its spokes person). Maps are a very important part of our product scale. we
do a lot to have the best maps in the region - most accurate, most up-to-date
and best for users. we are working on our own Panorama, 3D maps like these 8
already revealed for the whole Czech Republic. and we have an awsome app for
maps with on-line data for the whole Czech Republic. Is constant innovation a
sign of a dying firm?

~~~
Piskvorrr
A company whose frontpage looks like Yahoo cca 2000? "Constant innovation",
right. More like "very much constant, always playing catch-up, and moping over
long-gone glory of the 90s."

To sum it up with Wikipedia-like markup: "Most accurate [citation-needed],
most up-to-date [citation-needed], best for users [says-who]."

~~~
broolstoryco
u mad?

~~~
Piskvorrr
Sad, mostly. "Okay, the game is over and we have won, we are the king of the
internet, no need to do anything anymore. (Internet ends at the border, btw)"
This was 15 years ago.

------
lars
The Norwegian site Finn.no got 3D maps that looked exactly like this back in
2008. [0]

As the link explains, the technology originates from the Swedish air force,
and was meant to guide missiles through urban landscapes. It was since
commercialized for civilian uses by the company C3 Technologies.

This looks like it's exactly the same technology.

[0]: [http://labs.finn.no/sesam-3d-map-3d-revolution-the-
people/](http://labs.finn.no/sesam-3d-map-3d-revolution-the-people/)

~~~
jannes
C3 Technologies has been acquired by Apple, and they are using the technology
in their maps apps (iOS and OS X). I think it's unlikely that Apple would
license this technology to Seznam.

------
zk00006
Based on the posts, people think that seznam.cz is a startup and Google will
buy it like in 3,2,1. This is complete nonsense. Seznam is far from a startup
and I am pretty sure their goal is not to get "only" acquired. Its mapping
service is superior to google as far as Czech republic is considered. Well
done guys!

~~~
Tyrannosaurs
Raises an interesting question about whether (and where) Google might be
vulnerable to local rivals.

China is the most obvious example where Google simply haven't been allowed to
gather mapping data to compete, but it's interesting that there are other
places where they can theoretically compete but there are significant local
players.

~~~
rebolek
Seznam.cz started very early (in Lycos/Alta/Yahoo era) and there's also
difference in the strategy. For Google, Czech republic is just another market
area, for Seznam, it's the main area.

------
suoloordi
Is this different than, Nokia's 3d Maps? This is Stockholm:
[http://here.com/59.3314885,18.0667682,18.9,344,59,3d.day](http://here.com/59.3314885,18.0667682,18.9,344,59,3d.day)
edit: I see this covers different regions in Czech Republic, whereas Nokia
covers some well known cities all over the world.

------
bhouston
I think that given that Google already has 3D depth coverage from its street
view machines [1], it should be possible to combine that data with some medium
resolution overhead 3D scans to create something similar, and likely even
higher quality at the street level.

I wonder why Google hasn't done it yet. I don't think there are any real
technical limitations. It may be that getting it fast is hard and the
usefulness from an end user perspective isn't there yet?

[1] [http://gizmodo.com/depth-maps-hidden-in-google-street-
view-c...](http://gizmodo.com/depth-maps-hidden-in-google-street-view-create-
flickeri-1551425770)

~~~
podman
Google already has done it:
[https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7407861,-73.987388,348a,35y,...](https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7407861,-73.987388,348a,35y,78.65t/data=!3m1!1e3)

~~~
jim-greer
The difference is that Google is using low-res satellite imagery, rather than
high-res drone imagery. Maybe that will change now that they've bought Titan
Aerospace.

~~~
estebank
Google uses drone imagery for _some_ cities, San Francisco being one of them,
using different angles to create the 3D model of the city, and satellite
imagery for the rest of the planet. It's exactly what this company is doing.
From what I can see, Google Maps also uses different textures depending on the
viewing angle.

Check out
[https://www.google.com/maps/place/San+Francisco,+CA/@37.7623...](https://www.google.com/maps/place/San+Francisco,+CA/@37.762346,-122.4268632,67a,35y,90h,39.6t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x80859a6d00690021:0x4a501367f076adff)
and rotate the image. Check out the trees to see the seams of the different
pictures used to create the textures/models.

~~~
jim-greer
That's pretty low-res to be drone imagery. If you look at that same area using
the Google Earth plugin, it says that it's satellite imagery:

[http://i.imgur.com/qCEE7cB.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/qCEE7cB.jpg)

(updated screenshot to be from the same angle you have)

~~~
kbenson
I'm not sure why you think it's lower res. It looks about equivalent to me.
The trees look a bit odd in Google maps, but the quality of the building
windows and cars looks about the same.

~~~
jim-greer
Here's a more nuanced theory: The building fronts, cars, etc look great
because they are from street view. The roofs, treetops, etc, look terrible,
because they are from satellite.

~~~
dandelany
The roofs, treetops, etc. look terrible because the depth data is
significantly lower resolution than the photos. This causes the deformed
polygons you're seeing... The actual resolution of the photos of the
roofs/treetops are just as good as everything else, they're just stretched
over bad 3d data.

------
helloiamvu
Seznam is also working on 'Street View'. Check this out: [https://scontent-b-
lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/l/t1.0-9/10...](https://scontent-b-
lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-
prn1/l/t1.0-9/10177856_814504751912260_7631533748897121954_n.jpg)

------
chris-at
Are there easter eggs hidden here?

[http://beta.mapy.cz/3d?x=16.5301666&y=49.1886081&z=13&source...](http://beta.mapy.cz/3d?x=16.5301666&y=49.1886081&z=13&source=m3d&3dx=16.5301666&3dy=49.1886081)

~~~
Aoyagi
No, that's actually there, it's called "Hill of Abstraction"

------
adam1234
Hi, I'm from Seznam.cz and I'm in charge of Mapy.cz. Let me explain a couple
of things and correct some misinformation:

1) As was already said above, Seznam.cz is not a startup, it's been here
longer than Google, and it's one of the biggest Czech companies (over 1000
employees). In terms of monthly user counts, it is still number one on Czech
internet, in front of Google.

2) the imagery is not taken by drones, nor helicopters, but airplanes. Nobody
is able to take imagery of large areas (hundreds of kilometres) by drones, it
is only possible by airplanes, in today's state of technologies. We have our
own imagery, not bought from anyone.

3) the 3D model is computed from the aerial imagery (ortofoto + oblique). No
manual work is performed. It is a highly demanding computation, consuming
months even on huge cloud of top-notch supercomputers - which is why it is not
easy even for Google, to do it on large areas around the whole globe. The
computation will run for almost one year, to create 3D model of thousands of
square kms, which we plan to publish this year.

4) our maps earn money by selling our primary data, which we produce
(ortofoto, oblique, Panorama, etc.), for commercial professional users (not
only in Czech rep., but also abroad). The company as a whole earns money from
selling media space on its 20-30 web sites (seznam.cz, firmy.cz, sreality.cz,
novinky.cz, etc.). The company is highly innovative in terms of technologies
(as I describe above), as well as in user interface (our GUI never copies
other designs, we constantly create and test newer and newer GUIs).

Howgh :)

------
fractalsea
I find this very impressive. The fact that you can rotate arbitrarily and see
correct textures applied to all surfaces of buildings/foliage is amazing.

Can anyone provide any insight into how this is done? Is there a dataset which
specifies the detailed 3D layout of the earth? If so, how is it generated? Is
there satellite imagery of all possible angles? Is this all automated, or is
there a lot of manual work in doing all of this?

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robmcm
I hate the use of the history API.

I don't want the back button to navigate the map!

------
RankingMember
Very nice. I wonder where the source data (building textures, etc) came from.

~~~
metronius
from Pteryx UAV

[https://www.google.cz/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=Pter...](https://www.google.cz/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=Pteryx+UAV)

~~~
metronius
"The dataset for this model was acquired within mere 45 minutes by a Pteryx
UAV with maximum TOW of 5kg, flying 150m above ground level. The drone carried
a consumer grade compact camera (Canon PowerShot S90) and took a total of 541
nadir oriented images. The resultant true 3D model demonstrates Melown Maps
ability to capture façades even in the absence of oblique aerial imagery."

The paragraph is about another dataset, not the Brno city dataset.

------
antjanus
Not in the time that I've started going here would I have thought that Seznam
would make it here. You should check out their tile search feature!

They experiment a TON, all the time.

------
felixrieseberg
I actually think that this is slightly less detailed than the Bing Maps
Preview, where I could see my friend's car parked in front of his research
institute - I'm impressed that it's running in a browser though.

[http://www.bing.com/dev/en-us/maps-preview-app](http://www.bing.com/dev/en-
us/maps-preview-app)

------
kome
Far better than google, bing and apple maps. Nice work, seznam.

Why seznam does non exist in others European languages?

Czech republic is a little market, and if they focus just on Czech republic
their economy of scale will be broke very soon. They need investment to update
technology, but if their market is so little it became prohibitively expensive
very quickly.

------
Piskvorrr
Why does the error message remind me of "This site is only accessible in IE5.
Get it [here]"?

In other words, we seem to be rapidly drifting back into the Bad Old Days,
when sites were made for a single browser? Not using Firefox? You're SOL. Not
using Chrome? You're SOL elsewhere.

~~~
emehrkay
I opened in Safari and wondered what it said. I just dragged the link to
Chrome to see what was going on.

~~~
Piskvorrr
Current Chrome here - aaaand nope.

------
vb1977
The model is calculated from aerial photographs. The software for this was
made by Melown Maps, a Czech computer vision company. See their website
[http://www.melown.com/maps](http://www.melown.com/maps) for more models.

------
bitL
Congrats! Great job guys!

Just a few questions - what algorithm do you use for geometry simplification?
Is it based on quadric error metrics edge collapses? How do you join tiles of
different LODs? Any papers on reconstructing 3D from your drones?

------
dharma1
same stuff as apple maps, nokia 3d maps - low flying planes and lots of
photos. Apple bought a Swedish company from Saab to do this

Nice to see it can be done with a single UAV and camera. Is there any open
source software doing this?

------
_mikz
Vypadá to skvěle. Looking great.

~~~
zk00006
Souhlas.

------
SchizoDuckie
Sweet holy mamajama.

have they actually scanned this? or are they generating this from google maps
imagery?

~~~
rplnt
They have their own imagery.

------
SchizoDuckie
Someone please build a nextlevel Command&Conquer on top of this. _that_ would
be wicked.

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tarikozket
Apparently we will see more real world cities in the future games, voila!

------
tristanb
When is someone going to put maps like this into a flight simulator?

~~~
daviding
Complex meshes and photographic tiles are often used in flight sims, but the
difference here is super accurate placement of buildings I guess (being a
map). Here's a nice example of aerofly FS:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13tQZczBbHw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13tQZczBbHw)

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tomw1808
Instantly want to play SimCity again. It can't be just me.

------
hisham_hm
Unlike Google 3D Maps, this actually works on my computer!

------
aves
The city reminds me of City 17 in Half Life 2.

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ReshNesh
That's where I run. Very cool

------
evoloution
Would Google try to buy the startup, hire the developers, or just reinvent the
wheel in-house?

~~~
runn1ng
I am pretty sure Seznam.cz won't sell to Google.

Also I wouldn't characterize it as a "start-up", it's one of the biggest Czech
companies.

~~~
mkcz
True, Seznam.cz was founded in 1996, two years before Google. Try clicking
"Vybrat jinou mapu" \- more map types available.

------
matiasb
Cool!

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Almad
Thumbs up!

------
dermatologia
me gusta

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toddkazakov
awesome

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secfirstmd
Cool, I smell buy out in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1... :)

I like the idea of bringing back more of the contours into maps once again.
The move to flat satelite and Google Maps style stuff has meant the act of
being able to navigate based on most efficient effort (e.g across contours not
just A to B) is rapidly getting lost.

~~~
fro
Check out the just released Mapbox Outdoors

[https://www.mapbox.com/blog/mapbox-
outdoors/](https://www.mapbox.com/blog/mapbox-outdoors/)

~~~
maxerickson
This route planner shows elevation profiles:

[https://www.komoot.de/plan](https://www.komoot.de/plan)

I'm not sure how much it takes the elevations into account during the
planning.

~~~
Doctor_Fegg
I've recently built [http://cycle.travel/map](http://cycle.travel/map) which
does indeed take elevation into account when planning a route.

