
The 2018 MacBook Air is the iPhone X’s ASP strategy all over again - nothinggoesaway
https://9to5mac.com/2018/10/31/asp/
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selimnairb
My first reaction to the new MacBook Airs was, gee I could use that to replace
my 15” 2015 MBP. I’ve been wanting a machine with TouchID, but I don’t like
the touch bar and like a physical escape key. With cloud work becoming more
prevalent, maybe 2 cores and 16 GB is enough.

~~~
hartator
Just ordered one for dev work. Hopefully it’s enough.

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gambiting
I almost did as well, and then I saw that they are equipped with the "Y"
series of CPUs, so extremely underpowered 5W-limited series that normally goes
in the basic Macbook or fanless tablets. It looks like they have completely
neutered the CPU in the Air, where it no longer is a machine intended for
anything more than light web browsing. It really shouldn't be called an Air -
more like Macbook XL(Or Max, or whatever the current nomenclature is).

~~~
hartator
Yeah, MacBook 13" would have been a better product name. I've read
contradictory things online for the projected performance of the i5-8200Y
chip. The good news might be it's actually 7W and it has a fan. Maybe we can
expect performance closer to the MB pro nTB 13".

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utopcell
Not sure I agree that the Macbook is "an inferior machine at a higher price".
At 12", it is the only <13" offering currently.

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Hamuko
What do you gain with picking a 12-inch display over a 13.3-inch display?

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gumby
It’s so tiny it’s practically the size of an iPad. If you travel a lot this
can be a huge deal. I did a ton of development on one and it was great, but I
had a beefier machine for visualizations and big compiles. Still, the tiny 12”
is my go-to computer, small disk notwithstanding.

It also appears anecdotally that the smaller screen is more popular in Asia
than in US/EU (for both Mac and Windows).

~~~
athenot
I used to have the 13" MacBook Air but am now on a 15" MBP. What I found is
that whereas I'm reluctant to pull out my MBP on the couch or bed; I used to
do that without hesitation with the MBA. There seems to be some threshold of
weight/size that produces friction and makes me keep the MBP on a desk instead
of using it like a (more) mobile device.

This is bizarre since the 2 machines are not immensely different in sizing,
but it's something about the feel. Obviously this is highly subjective but
this is making me consider a 12" MacBook to have as my personal, non-workhorse
machine.

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otikik
For those who wonder, like me, if Apple is doing Active Server Pages: "ASP"
means "Average Selling Price".

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rconti
Interesting theory about the iPhone X being "obviously different" than the
lower end iPhones last year, and how it would immediately signal if you had
the 'latest' device or not. I suppose that's somewhat inarguable in terms of
the iPhone ecosystem, particularly when powered on, but my favorite thing
about my X last year (and especially now) is how anonymous it is. With a
generic black quad lock case on a black phone, sitting face-up on a table,
literally all you can see is black, and a tiny slit for an earpiece. If you
look REALLY closely you can see the camera next to the earpiece. There's no
home button to say "this is an iPhone", or advertise whether it's a touchID
home button or an even older physical home button. It could be absolutely
anything. The only real giveaway is when it's on, or if you put it face down;
the stacked cameras were fairly distinctive.

I mean, I certainly didn't choose it over some other phone merely because
WASN'T flashy, but I'm a lot happier buying something that doesn't advertise
itself.

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jiveturkey
imho that is some serious rationalization. you likely don’t see yourself as a
flashy person so you have to construct a reality where the phone is the
extreme of that — anonymous.

i have news for you. for anyone that does care, you can tell an iphone X all
the way across the bar.

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overcyn
Why are you criticizing someone's personal aesthetic preferences? So you think
that the iPhone X isn't understated. Doesn't mean that someone who disagrees
is doing "serious rationalization" or "constructing a reality".

~~~
jiveturkey
You've misread. I wouldn't dare to and I'm not criticizing someone's personal
aesthetic preferences.

I'm commenting on their projection of their desired reality onto the real
reality.

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overcyn
What real reality are you referring to? That the iPhone X looks flashy? Thats
not an objective truth, its taste.

If someone likes driving Corvettes because they think it looks anonymous and
non-descript. Who are you to tell them they're wrong. Its their opinion.

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dmode
I just browsed Apple's site to compare the models and it confused the heck out
of me.
[https://www.apple.com/mac/compare/](https://www.apple.com/mac/compare/)

The MacBook, new Air, and 13 inch Pro are roughly priced the same with very
few discernible differences. An average buyer would be very confused.

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jzl
Best comparison chart I've seen so far:
[https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/10/30/18042744/...](https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/10/30/18042744/apple-
macbook-air-2018-vs-pro-comparison-specs-features-best)

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40acres
The Macbook and iPhone lines are really mature. They've both been around for a
decade now, Apple is doing a good job of continuing to squeeze the juice out
of these fruits and these sort of strategies are textbook when it comes to
executing on a mature product line.

I think Apple's biggest question is what's next? The Apple Watch is really
starting to hit's its groove and I think within the next few years will become
a really fantastic product (even moreso than now) but what's next?

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mikhailt
All of their hardware are mature, what’s next need to be the software.

iOS is way too limited for what the hardware can do.

macOS is way too slow compared to what Windows feels like on the same Mac
hardware.

They need to focus on the software right now.

~~~
ghostly_s
> macOS is way too slow compared to what Windows feels like on the same Mac
> hardware.

What are you smoking?

~~~
mikhailt
Nothing? What's the problem?

I have Windows running via Bootcamp on the same Mac and Windows feels much
faster than macOS at opening stuff. Even faster than I disable animations.

Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean I don't. I know for sure I'm not
the only one seeing it.

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fouc
Author is implying that ASP is rising for the Macs, but he didn't look at
prices in the last 10-15 years.

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cmsj
ASP is rising in the last couple of years, but it's only recently crossed the
level it was at a decade ago.

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PhantomGremlin
The article is wrong when it says: _Absolutely nobody who knows anything about
Macs – or computers of any kind – is going to recommend that they buy the old
model._

Two things better on the old model: keyboard and MagSafe.

I'm glad I own an older Macbook Pro Retina. I'd always have "keyboard anxiety"
with any of the new models: is this the day my keyboard fails? And: do I dare
take my laptop outside? Will airborne dust get into the keyboard mechanism?

Bah!

~~~
pier25
I bought a 2017 MBA for $800 a couple of months back for my wife and, with all
its faults, I think it's a better deal than the new 2018 MBA.

Other than the outdated display, performance is perfectly adequate, and
battery/trackpad/keyboard/SSD speed/ports are still doing great.

~~~
rconti
I'm split. I have a 2011 Air that I rarely use. The 4MB of RAM and slower CPU
is the major problem with it; screen resolution is a distant third. I keep
thinking of buying the most modern USB-A-and-SD-card-reader-equipped AirI can
find, because it truly is the best machine I've owned. On the other hand, new
and shiny! And I almost never use the SD card reader or USB port, it's just
nice to have. And the keyboard is fantastic.

~~~
pier25
The good thing is now you should be able to find great deals on the 2017
model.

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geodel
I think weight wise MacBook Air is not much lighter than MacBook Pro 13". But
it is about 500 dollar cheaper than MBP with newer 8th gen processor. I guess
will wait until MBA gets cheaper or cheaper MBPs get new processor and
keyboard.

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masklinn
> I think weight wise MacBook Air is not much lighter than MacBook Pro 13".
> But it is about 500 dollar cheaper than MBP with newer 8th gen processor.

Except it's a dual-core Y-series (same as the macbook) while the 13" MBP gets
a quad-core 25W U-series, and the MBP comes with double the storage (that
alone accounts for $200) and connectivity.

~~~
geodel
You are of course right. I was mainly looking 12-1300ish MBP with newer
processor or about 1000 dollar MBA. Since I can wait for a year or longer,
maybe there will be better pricing then.

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xoa
So I did a search in the article for the word "inflation" and found no hits,
but I think it's something that the tech world is going to have to start
getting used to after decades in the steep part of a S-curve that let it defy
the normal. In most of the developed world at least inflation is generally
quite low, but it's not zero (nor is zero or worse deflation a healthy sign).
For electronics there has been a long time where constant improvements in
process technology, efficiency, mass manufacturing tech, and just plain ever
larger scales as it went global, meant that every year or two allowed more to
be done cheaper.

But at this point that's heavily played out. Progress is certainly not "done"
by any means, and the slowdown is uneven (GPUs still scale more easily for
example), but it's not exponential or essentially "free" anymore either.
Bumping into harder physics means process shrinks keep getting harder and
vastly more expensive for less gains, the low hanging frequency improvements
and IPC has been picked, a lot of the trivial vectorization and parallelism
done, hyper cheap mass labor utilized, the easy parts of the global market
gobbled up, etc. There are also softer issues like inequality to deal with and
in turn a wider spread in prices people might pay.

So tech companies are going to face a more "normal" world, where no a device
from a year ago or two years ago or even 5 or more years ago isn't necessarily
"obsolete". That means they'll need to figure out how to start raising prices
over time just to keep pace with inflation let alone secure more growth when
expanding marketshare or cutting costs is ever harder. But the public has been
conditioned for a very long time to expect prices to always stay the "same"
(which really means it's falling in real terms over time) or outright drops on
the sticker price. Figuring out how to navigate that to a new normal without
promoting undue backlash is something everyone will need to grapple with. One
approach that Apple may be going for is to just take some pages from mature
areas like cars, where there is a huge premium for "brand new", and large
percentages of the population are fine getting used or "last year's that
didn't sell" (let alone an "old model but newly manufactured" which isn't
really a thing with cars) and will never buy brand new their entire lives. But
"old" models still get support for a long time and to the basic job fine.

Other strategies of course include trying to shift more into ongoing services
revenue, platform monetization (be it a cut of software sales or ads), premium
support offerings, etc. Different players will try different mixes. But nobody
will be able to avoid it anymore then other industries, at least not unless
some other huge productivity shift (automation related perhaps) happens.

~~~
toyg
Inflation has been in the (low) single digits for about 20 years in most
developed nations.

An iPhone cost $200 in 2008.

The combined rate of inflation in the US since 2008 is 17.2%. So an iPhone
should cost less than $240 today, if inflation were the main driving factor.

The cheapest iPhone costs $450 now. The technological equivalent of that 2008
model costs almost 3x.

Inflation is not a driving factor. You could raise IT prices 5% YOY and nobody
would bat an eyelid.

~~~
ken
No, $200 was the "subsidized price" as part of an AT&T service plan: "AT&T,
like most U.S. carriers, offers a variety of phones that we sell below our
actual cost when customers agree to sign service agreements." [1]

The cheapest non-subsidized ("no commitment price") iPhone you could get back
then was $499. At your 17% inflation rate, that's almost $600 in today's
dollar, so Apple's entry level iPhone is actually a little cheaper than in
2008.

[1]:
[https://www.att.com/Common/merger/files/pdf/iPhone/Pricing_U...](https://www.att.com/Common/merger/files/pdf/iPhone/Pricing_Upgrading_FAQs.pdf)

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4ad
> the 12-inch MacBook is still there in the line-up, price unchanged. It makes
> no sense: it’s an inferior machine at a higher price. But it will find a
> market with those who know nothing about technology and simply want the
> sleekest possible device.

Meh, what a load of BS. I know a lot about technology and prefer the 12-inch.
Form factor matters, both to professionals like myself and to "people who know
nothing about technology".

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akshayB
Apple have created a mess by providing multiple options between Airs and Pros.
If you upgrade the RAM to 16GB on Air it surpasses the base model of Pro and
similarly other storage options. At that point you should rather buy a Pro
over Air because the only major difference is size. Lot of this is totally
confusing for non-technical folks and they might just end-up making a wrong
purchase.

~~~
arnvald
I completely agree. I've been using MacBook Air mid 2013 for the last 5 years
and it's a great laptop. Now I'm considering buying a new one, and Airs just
don't make sense for me anymore.

In Singapore the difference in price between cheapest Air and cheapest Pro is
less than SG$100 (US$70). The only advantage of Air is longer battery life,
but that's it.

I think at this point the Air series should be merged with MacBooks. Make it
small (12"), give it one more USB-C port, upgrade processor, add TouchID and
it's good to go.

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toyg
_> The only advantage of Air is longer battery life_

And less weight.

(I was going to say "and less volume", but one end of the Air is actually
thicker than the MBP, so overall volume might not be that different in the end
- even though it does look smaller.)

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arnvald
I wanted to add this, but the difference is so small now (Air is 120gram /
0.27 pound lighter) that I don't think it is really any advantage

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zomg
What the author is really discussing is Apple's PRICING strategy. This has
nothing to do with ASP, which is an internal metric that I doubt external to
Apple is privy to.

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oculusthrift
still not sure why we have both a "macbook" and "macbook air". they seem to
occupy the same market segment. i thought apple was all about minimizing
choices.

~~~
mrpippy
They are a lot more similar than they were when the MacBook came out a few
years ago. However, the MacBook is fanless (which also means much slower) and
smaller/thinner/lighter than the Air.

Will the MacBook stay around? I suspect Apple is quite disillusioned with the
performance that Intel offers in this TDP range, and the MacBook will either
get dropped or go ARM.

~~~
4ad
The MB uses a 5W CPU, the Air uses a 7W CPU, still miles behind the
performance of real laptop CPUs like those found in the Pro line.

If you need to decide between MB and MB Air, performance should't enter into
it, it's almost the same.

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hapless
Is ASP rising faster than the cost of goods sold?

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slivym
To be honest I think this article is making a lot off nothing. TL;DR: New
models, higher prices. Keep the old models just in case someone is super price
sensitive. It's not rocket science is it.

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pentae
The worst part is that for many of us, we'd be happier to pay the higher price
but Apples giving us LESS. A worse keyboard, no magsafe, no USB-A, worse
thermal management, less reliable, more expensive and difficult to maintain..
the list goes on. If the new machines weren't a big step backwards in some
areas it would be a much easier pill to swallow.

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Synaesthesia
Because it’s smaller?

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java-man
than

and the original title is different.

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tvjunky
This. "Then" is also capitalized. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees this.

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ape4
They use helium to make it lighter (joke)

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hencoappel
A reference to the article about helium breaking iPhones?

