
Data journalism busts speeding cops, wins Pulitzer - auctiontheory
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2013-04-15/news/fl-sun-sentinel-pulitzer-prize-20130415_1_law-enforcement-officers-database-journalism
======
jere
>The reporters found nearly 800 officers who reached speeds of 90-130 mph,
many of them while off duty. The accidents caused by officers driving at high
speeds had caused at least 320 crashes since 2004, killing or maiming 21
people.

That's such a horrifying statistic if true. Even at their peak, homicide
offending rates in the US were at around 20 per 100,000; assault rates about
10 times as high: <http://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf>

Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way, but in my mind I'm comparing 20
homicides per 100,000 citizens to to 21 people killed/maimed by a group that
is orders of magnitude smaller:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_Police_Department>

I think this is just another reminder that Bruce Schneier is right when he
says we should be more worried about car accidents than terrorism.

~~~
corwinstephen
Frustrating? Yes. Shocking? No.

Did anyone really believe that taking a job as a police officer somehow
suppressed these people's natural desire to drive fast? Hell, that's probably
what make them join the force in the first place. Sure, it's irresponsible and
illegal for off-duty officers to speed, but it's also irresponsible and
illegal for regular citizens to speed, and yet that doesn't seem to stop them
from doing it. Why would you expect the cops to be any different? Do you hold
them to a higher level of moral responsibility during their off time because
of what they do for a living?

Being a police officer is a job. Unless you wanna have robots do it instead,
people are going to do what people are going to do.

~~~
fnordfnordfnord
Well then, let them stop pretending that they're looking out for our safety
when they put up a speed trap. If you want to talk about having more
reasonable road markings, speed limits, and fines for speeding that's great.
It's a conversation that we need to have. But to have a bunch of guys driving
around like jerks, on and off duty, extracting a tax from the working stiffs
is an insult, and nobody should be surprised that the cops get little
sympathy.

> Unless you wanna have robots do it instead

Not really. It's been shown time and again that greedy authorities will
compromise on public safety to optimize profit. And, machines tend to have no
discretion. Nor is any applied by the authorities. If you show up to an
intersection at two am, with nobody in sight, stop, look and proceed safely
through a red light, you get the same citation that some jerk gets who blows
through on a busy day.

~~~
talmand
My reasoning in that speed traps are for revenue generation instead of safety
is over the thought that a visible police presence on the road would more
likely cause people to slow down and obey traffic laws. Hiding to ambush a
speeder is the same tactic used by a highwayman out for money.

~~~
fnordfnordfnord
I agree. You might also consider the fact that any machinery capable of
selectively recording red-light violators, is also capable of warning other
drivers, yet such a feature is absent from any that I have seen.

------
austenallred
This lends to a trend that's way to prevalent as of late: There are no checks
and/or balances on the Police; the only discipline comes internally, often as
a result of public outcry. Perhaps it's the bias of what you actually hear
about, but it seems like the worst that can happen to a Police officer is paid
leave.

~~~
ryanac
"as of late"? Feels like the lack of checks and balances on the police has
been going on for a while.

It's only when something major happens that people take notice, like someone
putting together this report, now all of a sudden it's a new trend that's way
to prevalent as of late. :P

~~~
austenallred
OK, I guess "as of late" means "since the Internet."

~~~
SoftwareMaven
If anything, I bet it has gotten _better_ since the Internet. Pre-Internet, it
would take a local news agency to ferret out problems. Now, problems can be
reported by anyone and viewed by many.

~~~
sbov
Which allows people to read about it more often, making them think the problem
is worse now.

------
krschultz
We like to talk about the "10x developer", but journalism has to be the field
with the highest disparity in value. Some journalists are worth their weight
in gold, and some are worth less than nothing.

------
ajmurmann
Nothing makes me more upset than corrupt cops. Obviously the off-duty cops got
away with speeding because cops don't give tickets to other cops. That's the
real scandal. Corrupt cops undermine the entire legal system, which is much
worse than anything any terrorist could ever hope to achieve. They should be
treated accordingly!

~~~
ritchiea
You must be upset a lot

~~~
ajmurmann
Yes I am. (-;

------
pavedwalden
Wow, an officer was FIRED for speeding. That should be the headline right
there. I was beginning to think it was impossible for a cop to get themselves
fired.

~~~
eterm
One was. Out of 800 found. That should also be a headline.

~~~
jrockway
I'm not sure you need to fire someone for driving 125mph at 4 o'clock in the
morning. The punishment should fit the crime.

~~~
fancyketchup
Is it also kosher to drive while intoxicated at 4 o'clock in the morning? I'm
not asking to be snarky, I just don't understand the line of reasoning. It
seems like you are saying that engaging is behaviors that are risky to other
members of the public are ok as long as nobody is hurt on the specific
instance in which you engage in them.

~~~
pyre
I think that idea is that driving at 125mph is less risky at 4am because there
are fewer obstacles around. Attempting to drive 125mph at, say, 4pm would be a
lot more risky/dangerous.

That said, I don't think that actions outside of work necessarily should mean
someone is fired. Using your badge to attempt to get out of trouble, or
stating that you feel that speeding is your 'right' (on-duty or off-duty) just
because you are a cop, on the other hand...

------
wahsd
"The database was so innovative that two law enforcement agencies sent
investigators to the newsroom to learn how to replicate it."

Expect your ticket in the mail, while legislation is passed that prevents cops
from being held accountable.

~~~
dnm
I'm curious as to the technical details. I can't imagine why investigators
couldn't get access to the raw Sun Pass database, which records tag id, toll
booth, and a timestamp, if it works anything like my EZ-Pass system. From
that, it's trivial to match up enter/exit records and divide the distance by
the time to come up with an average speed. The article says they got the data
from 12 police departments. I wonder what kind of records they obtained.

~~~
ajtaylor
I wondered the same thing. Perhaps the distance between toll booths is what
they measured in the 2500 miles driven? It seems like you should be able to
get the data from OSM as well, with a lot less time required!

------
RyJones
John Allen Paulos has been pushing using toll data for speeding citations for
decades, most recently here:
[http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/WhosCounting/t/story?id=979...](http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/WhosCounting/t/story?id=97915&page=1&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F)

~~~
AnthonyMouse
There are a number of problems with doing things like this.

The first is that significant speed differentials are extremely dangerous.
Uncalibrated speedometers are very common and very inaccurate. Anything that
causes guaranteed enforcement is going to reduce safety because people will
start religiously following their speedometer instead of the normal flow of
traffic, so now you have people driving all different speeds than one another
based on how badly and in which direction their speedometer is miscalibrated.
On top of that you have a situation where anyone who has made a stop for
coffee or gas is exempt from the timer because of the stop, so you put a
number of people driving 15MPH over the limit (because they stopped and aren't
subject to the timer) on the same road as people driving 15MPH under the limit
(because they haven't stopped and their speedometer is inaccurate) and you're
going to see more collisions.

Then there is the pragmatic problem. Speeding tickets are big money _because_
the law is enforced sporadically under unpredictable conditions. To generate
revenue, enforcement has to be rare enough that it doesn't induce compliance.
And the proposed scheme is entirely deterministic. Everyone who doesn't make a
stop will discontinue their speeding between toll booths -- which is
ostensibly the intended result, except that it means the scheme will generate
no money and will deprive the government of existing ticket revenue that would
have been generated on that stretch of road. Meanwhile it reduces the need for
police presence, which means you'll have to fight the law enforcement unions
to boot. It's not at all surprising that there has been little interest in
implementing it.

~~~
fyi80
Number of times I have stopped for gas on a 30-mile stretch of local toll
road: 0.

Why would someone stop, just to get an excuse to speed later, at the same
average? The few people drag-racing, maybe. Not the vast majority who want to
to arrive at destination ASASP.

You are conjuring up a ridiculous hypothetical and claiming it is the common
case.

~~~
AnthonyMouse
>Why would someone stop, just to get an excuse to speed later, at the same
average?

You do understand that there are service plazas on toll roads. People stop for
gas because they need gas, not because they want to speed. But once someone
has stopped, or intends to stop before the toll booth, they're no longer
subject to the timer and end up creating a dangerous speed differential
against the drivers who are.

~~~
lmm
On today's roads there are always some people driving over the speed limit. By
your logic we should abolish speed limits to remove this "speed differential".

~~~
AnthonyMouse
You mean like this?

[http://www.motorists.org/press/safe-to-raise-freeway-
speed-l...](http://www.motorists.org/press/safe-to-raise-freeway-speed-limits)

Existing speed limits are pointless but mostly harmless _because_ people just
ignore them. Their primary purpose is to serve as a source of ticket revenue
and an excuse for police to stop any vehicle they don't otherwise have cause
to stop.

------
pitt1980
I'm just going to throw this out there,

people don't pass marked cars

so a marked car driving the speed limit causes traffic to back up behind them

for no other reason than to alleviate traffic congestion, it probably makes
sense for them to drive 15-20 miles over the speed limit

(that obviously doesn't excuse driving 130 mph)

~~~
freehunter
I would argue that for the sake of the law, having a backup of cars behind an
officer all doing the speed limit is a _good_ thing. It's called the speed
_limit_ , not the speed range. As in, the maximum you're allowed to do on that
road in perfect conditions. If we want to enforce the laws, having everyone
follow a pace car going exactly the speed limit is a good thing.

Having an officer going 65 in a 55 just to relieve congestion means the law is
irrelevant.

~~~
jamesaguilar
Also, having pace cars alleviates traffic jams (assuming the pace car is
leaving appropriate space in front of him to absorb traffic shocks). This
obviously doesn't work in the current situation because no one feels bad
passing a cop in a traffic jam, but there's something to this idea.

------
cafard
A retired Marine I know said roughly "we recruit them with commercials showing
guys rappelling from helicopters or advancing through fire, we train them to
take extreme risks, and we're astonished when they go 130 on a motorcycle and
get killed". I have very little interest in driving over about 75, but then I
also have very little interest in confronting dangerous people.

~~~
pc86
A decent chunk of my last few weeks on Parris Island was them telling us how
much money they'd spent on us and not to [expletive] it up by killing
ourselves doing something stupid.

------
auctiontheory
OP here. I'm sensing some generalized anti-police sentiment. Many cities allow
residents to "ride along" in a police car for a shift. (In the front!) It's
not a bad thing to do.

~~~
beatpanda
Anti-police sentiment exists here because police abuse their power
systematically, and notably so in places with strong tech communities like New
York City and the Bay Area (specifically Oakland), residents of which are
over-represented on HN.

------
sfall
ok I really am not getting this it says:

"the technical challenges were daunting because the raw information does not
allow speed calculations,'' Maines said. "We came up with some neat tricks to
overcome that, and it's great that the judges recognized our hard work.""

I am crazy to think that the raw data would be something like: account#, toll
location, time And this would be the bare minimum. How would determining the
length between tolls and using the times to determine the average speed
required be "neat tricks"? Am I really off?

I am not saying it wasn't hard work, but please tell me the real technical
challenges, that I really would love to hear.

~~~
MertsA
Yea but you can't even begin to imagine how big the excel spreadsheet was.

~~~
sfall
that put a smile on my face, do i need to update my resume to be a database
specialist?

------
pstuart
It gives some hope that it's possible to police the police.

~~~
rhizome
Except when that gets the policer threats from officers being policed (and
their colleagues in the brotherhood):

[http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Florida-Highway-Patrol-
Tr...](http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Florida-Highway-Patrol-Trooper-Who-
Arrested-Speeding-Miami-Officer-Files-Lawsuit-184753781.html)

------
ryderm
> The reporters found nearly 800 officers who reached speeds of 90-130 mph,
> many of them while off duty.

Well, driving above the speed limit while on duty is required. Why would that
be included in the statistic? And driving 90 is hardly out of the ordinary
where I'm from. That being said, driving 120 or 130 while off duty is clearly
a bad idea.

~~~
uxp
> Well, driving above the speed limit while on duty is required.

Admittedly, it's not really physically possible to catch up to someone
traveling at 90 mph when you're limited to 65, however they have lights and
sirens that, according to law, they are required to use while responding to an
emergency or incident, which broadly covers speeding.

According to the original article, more than half of all incidents occurred
outside of the officers jurisdictions. Miami-Dade limits officers to 20 mph
above the speed limit at all times, even while enroute to an emergency (270
cops were found going over 90, 70 being the highest speed limit in Miami-
Dade). FHP limits officers to 15 above the posted limit, but does allow
excesses if the situation requires it, but only if the environment allows it
and it is safe to do so, but earns the prize for the fastest speed of 129.8
mph.

[http://databases.sun-
sentinel.com/news/broward/ftlaudCopSpee...](http://databases.sun-
sentinel.com/news/broward/ftlaudCopSpeeds/ftlaudCopSpeeds_list.php)

~~~
fyi80
You might be interested to learn that radio waves can travel well in excess in
of 90mph. as can helicopters. In fact, many jurisdictions ban high-speed
chases, specifically because they are more dangerous than they help.

~~~
uxp
I'm apparently missing something. How is speed of light and the maximum
horizontal speed of a helicopter relevant to the capabilities a single cop
traveling in a single highway capable vehicle in pursuit of another highway
capable vehicle?

I think I'm perfectly aware of the existence of radio waves and the
breakthrough in communications their discovery unlocked, but I wasn't talking
about that. I was talking about two different objects traveling at two
different speeds in the same direction being physically incapable of meeting
at another point unless the faster object slows down or stops, or in this
instance the slower object breaks the speed limit and speeds up.

~~~
MichaelApproved
I think OP was making the point that, instead of speeding, a police officer
should radio other officers ahead of the speeder in an attempt to catch the
perpetrator.

It's a bad point because police already do radio ahead while they're in
pursuit. Also, some cities do not allow police to chase suspects but it all
depends on the crime. For example, they may chase someone wanted for murder
but not someone else who's wanted for a non-violent crime. The argument is
that it's not worth putting the public at risk for some offenders but for
others it's important to apprehend the suspected criminal.

------
doorhammer
What makes me happy about this is that it's an example living in the
information age. Every day people are gaining more and more tools that can be
used to, in a way, force transparency. I think the situation from that
standpoint will only get better as stories like this unfold. I really like
this one because it's a demonstration that given the right tools, some folks
can cut through and make their own transparency.

I'm not saying it's a panacea, but I do think that we live in pretty
interesting times for this kind of thing.

Here's hoping it continues in that direction.

------
ck2
And absolutely nothing will change.

Like Congress voting back insider-trading.

Zero penalty for speeding off-duty cops and they will still kill people and
get away with it.

------
drakaal
Great use case for big data, and a great story about how "shadow data", the
data that is avaialbe only through manipulation of data can be extracted.

------
obviouslygreen
And people will use this as a reason to scream "OMG CORRUPT COPS ALL OF THEM
ARE AWFUL!" Welcome to the history of law enforcement.

People are people. We all do stupid things, and pretending that cops are
anything but people is idiotic. Yes, they should be held to a higher standard.
No, that does not mean you should not expect them to fuck up; it means that
they should be punished when they do, just like the rest of us.

I know people who scream corruption and all sorts of other stupidity every
time some government agent does something that seems even remotely wrong. I
also know people who will defend, against all logic, all actions of anyone
carrying a badge. I fall somewhere in between; I know and have known a whole
lot of government employees, and have even been processed by a few of them.
Yep, it was my fault, and I can't bring myself to hold it against them.

The point is that most people who take the job of upholding the law do so.
That the laws aren't perfect is not their fault. That there are people who
take that job but still break the law means they're not perfect, and it means
they're still subject to the same laws as the rest of us. That's not news;
that's just reality.

The idea that cops should be perfect sure as hell didn't come from cops. At
least, none that I know. Higher standard? Sure. Perfection? Try a mirror. No
one can manage that, and if you want perfect people chasing you down the
street, you're likely to get sued when they find out you're using Superman
without express written permission.

------
kriglin
It's true - the majority of crime and unprovoked acts of violence in many
regions are committed by law enforcement and the legal system as a whole.

The solution is to replace the current feudal legal system with a framework
that seeks to reduce violence.

------
ritonlajoie
well, am I the only one to find that a little bit strange? pardon me for the
cross reference but it feels like this should be on /r/nottheonion

