
Snapchat weighs what was once unthinkable: permanent snaps - rayvy
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-snap-messages-exclusive/exclusive-snapchat-weighs-what-was-once-unthinkable-permanent-snaps-idUSKCN1PM2D0
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Ancalagon
Slightly off topic: I've noticed many of my once-prolific snap friends are no
longer posting as much, and instead are posting to instagram. Honestly it
makes me a little sad, I have a ton of good memories from this app, and Snap
in general seems much more concerned with user privacy than instagram and
Facebook at large. Here's to hoping they make a comeback in the future!

~~~
austinl
I've got a similar anecdote: my friends in San Francisco or New York have
moved over to Instagram entirely. My friends in the midwest or south (Chicago,
Austin) still use Snapchat.

There's probably a network effect — a couple of strong links in the friend
group in that city keeps it going. I also wonder if usage in coastal cities is
a leading indicator.

~~~
rjkennedy98
Interesting comment. I live in the midwest and all my friends use snapchat.

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wtmt
When Instagram copied Snapchat and released the stories feature, Snapchat
should've quickly copied everything else from Instagram (except all the
nastiness that Facebook pushes) and offered those as optional...like storing
snaps permanently. Snap really missed the boat on this, along with the UI
redesign that turned off the core user base.

Instagram is only going to get worse with Mark Zuckerberg pushing it. Snap
could still be an alternative if it focuses on what users want and keep what
users may not want as optional or as a new app altogether.

~~~
vit05
I do not know if SnapChat would succeed just by copying some functionality.
Snap grew by offering an opportunity to share small, stupid day-to-day
moments.

We are curious about what others do. That's why reality shows and gossip
magazines were so successful.

But the point is that by introducing Stories, Instagram provided this
opportunity to spy on the lives of others. But also the opportunity to build a
profile. This is important for anyone who has the ability to entertain others
for longer, the influencers. And make others believe they could be that too.

Just saving a snap would not be enough. Snap would have to provide a landing
page for each user that could be attractive enough for others to start
following it. And some small clips is not so attractive, because you have to
wait without doing nothing. In Instagram, in a few second rolling someone feed
you would like it or not.

In addition, Instagram's search system improved greatly during this time of
competition. While on snapchat is non-existent.

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JohnJamesRambo
How about working on the unthinkable, which is fixing the impossible to
navigate UI?

~~~
applanation
> impossible to navigate

It is depressing to me how low the bar is for our ability to learn an
application. If the UI has more than a single list or button, it becomes
"impossible to navigate". There was a time when users would expect some time
getting to know their application and even, dare I say, read a guide or
manual! Sometimes extremely powerful, creative, and useful tools will have a
learning curve. Snap could offer some amazing capabilities, but because of
this "simple is everything" mindset, they will face outrage if they expose
anything beyond message passing.

~~~
dahfizz
There is a big difference between a complex UI on a complex application and an
unintuitive UI on what should be very simple.

It is completely nonsensical how Snapchat works. You have to swipe every which
way and there's no clues when to swipe where. You just have to memorize the
magical incantation to do what you want through trial and error.

We as a society have built up a fantastic 'language' of UI. We know what
buttons and menus, etc do. Snapchat throws away all the ways you want to
intuitively navigate and give you no clues about what to do instead.

~~~
michaelbuckbee
I've only dipped my toe into Snapchat a few times, but you are spot on with
your description of the UI.

However, I think your description also fits CLI's which has always led me to
wonder if maybe Snapchat's UI is really a way forward as a "native mobile" CLI
of a sort.

We're already seeing things like pinch-to-zoom, swipe to move next, etc. being
taken and recombined for all sorts of apps.

~~~
steve19
The CLI is self-documenting. __xyz --help __, -h or --help | grep 'abc', along
with __man xyz __gives you everything you need to know.

This is probably one of my favorite things about the CLI versus GUI. There is
nothing worse than working with cli apps that have weird incantations.

~~~
krageon
Maybe it's been a while since you used a CLI when you weren't intimately
familiar with it, or maybe it has been a while since you used an application
that deviates from the -h standard (or that doesn't provide a manpage, opting
instead for info), but I'd really hesitate to call this process self-
documenting for anyone that doesn't already know the tool.

I've been using command-line interfaces for a pretty long time now, and I'm
incredibly thankful that these days I can look something up on the internet
and generally find a list of some examples on how to use things. Man pages are
generally incredibly verbose in all the wrong ways (far too much information,
far too little that you actually want) and the -h switch at best gives you
some flags and descriptions that are fundamentally too short to teach you
anything useful. There is no real global standard for what kind of flags or
inputs do what things (for example, far from every program with a CLI
interface will actually accept "-" as an input file even though that's one of
those things a lot of people use and should therefore be pretty obvious),
further obfuscating the core workings of anything you might be using.

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redwyvern
How about returning localized stories specific to cities and college campuses?
That feature was so important to so many people, and it was just suddenly
killed last year.

~~~
feocco
That's still a thing via the map. You can also pay for a location based filter
& start a similar story as well. Ideal for weddings.

~~~
badwolf
I bought my first personal filter/lenses for a friends wedding. It was a big
hit, to the point that nearly any large gathering someone will
snapcash/venmo/applepay/payment method du jour me a few bucks to make a filter
or lens and story for their event (christmas party, baby shower, housewarming,
cocktail party, etc...)

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pmiller2
This reminds me a bit of how OkCupid basically turned their app into Tinder:
got rid of screen names, swipe to match, and can only message users you’ve
mutually matched with. Maybe all dating apps will eventually become Tinder,
and all photo-oriented messaging apps will turn into some hybrid of
Snap/Insta.

~~~
lfx
By the way, OkCupid and Tinger, and PlentyOfFish some other belong to the same
group/company.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Match_Group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Match_Group)

It's likely that they making all apps alike to match most grossing.

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jayd16
I'm still surprised people think their snaps can't be scraped and saved
forever.

~~~
chii
i believe the other party will be informed by snapchat if you took a screeshot
of it.

~~~
thisacctforreal
They go out of their way to detect root and block the app on Android, but I'm
sure there are counter counter measures regardless.

~~~
cortesoft
Plus, the impossible to plug analog hole... taking a picture of your phone
with another camera.

~~~
chii
but you take a quality loss...

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lwhi
All this confirms to me, is the fact that the app space is mainly a
battleground for highly evolved corporate entities to fight for attention and
profit.

Being unique or solving a purpose that's genuinely useful to its audience,
doesn't seem to be a primary aim of businesses like Snapchat.

~~~
coralreef
\- Snapchat didn't exist until 7 years ago, so not sure they qualify as a
highly evolved corporate entity

\- Snapchat solves a unique communication problem (the desire to express
yourself without it living forever). It still solves this problem today,
however so do a lot of competitors.

~~~
n1c
I _think_ they mean that it's the entities that post on the platform that are
"highly evolved corporate entities fighting for attention".

~~~
SiempreViernes
That's a good point, most of the social media platforms have parts that are
essentially lawless advertising space.

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rblion
Snap is only on my phone because my phone storage fills up sometimes and I
need space to save photos or videos.

I don't look at anyone's stories anymore. The people I care about, I make time
to hang out with them in person or call them when I miss them. You know, like
people used to before 2010.

There I said it. I know I'm not alone.

~~~
josteink
> I don't look at anyone's stories anymore.

I don't know about anyone else, but posting a story is the only guaranteed way
to ensure I don't even check it.

That applies equally to Snapchat, instagram and facebook.

As a means of communication, it just doesn't work for me.

~~~
rblion
I used to if it was a girl I was talking to or while my friends traveled. I
just don't care anymore. Posting stories and checking who saw it, seeing
others is a time waster.

I love my work, my hobbies, solitude, family, analog lifestyle as much as
possible.

------
joeblow9999
The snaps have ALWAYS been permanent. They are just not shown on your phone
after a certain window of time.

~~~
MorrisofOrange
No, Snapchat said they get deleted from their servers after 30 days, and that
was after law enforcement got their panties in a knot. Unless youre saying
Snapchat is lying about that.

~~~
dymk
HN claims that Facebook just bold-face lies about <topic of the day> all the
time, are we not going to hold Snapchat to the same scrutiny?

~~~
MorrisofOrange
Except this what separated them from the competition. It would be like if
Apple confessed iOS was Android with different graphics. Also Snapchat can
mine your data without keeping your pictures forever and ever.

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ulfw
Please someone enlighten me what the uniqueness of Snap(chat) then will be
again?

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paulie_a
So the primary purpose of Snapchat, sharing nudity temporarily is now
permanent?

~~~
bostik
Worse. From the article:

 _The company is also weighing an option to reveal the identities of Snapchat
users who make public posts_

Of course, the irony is not lost on Reuters because just a few lines after
that:

 _Snap is carefully weighing the privacy, technical and legal considerations
of revealing user identities on public posts_

So the way I read this is that Snap are giving up their transient nature and
planning to become yet another platform for industrial grade stalking.

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grillvogel
not sure why all the snapchat hate, my friends all use it as our go to
messaging app. i dont need years of inane conversations all archived for all
time on my phone, also they have the best sticker emojis

~~~
badwolf
That's one of the main uses my friends groups have evolved to.

At most saving the last 24 hours is just fine. I don't really see a need to
keep everything forever and ever

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twblalock
In today's news: people who take photos expect their photos to last more than
a few minutes.

There is no reason not to skip to the next photo sharing platform because
nothing is saved. It's a platform without a platform effect.

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bitxbitxbitcoin
Maybe it'll go the way of the Facebook dislike button.

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mac01021
I never got snapchat. For all but a few odd use cases, expiring messages/posts
seem to me to be strictly worse than permanently hosted ones.

~~~
pure-awesome
I don't know if I'd call sending nudes an "odd use-case", but that's what I've
always understood to be Snapchat's primary use-case.

(The fact that temporary photos can be quite easily screenshotted,
photographed etc. is an unfortunate limitation, and something which many users
may not realize)

~~~
smelendez
I do think it shifts norms, which is important.

There are places where it's legal to record your conversations when you go out
with friends, and even whether it's legal or not it's incredibly easy to do.
But good luck having much of a social life or even getting served in the local
bar if people know you're always wearing a wire.

~~~
pure-awesome
> I do think it shifts norms, which is important.

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand. What, exactly, shifts norms?

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gammateam
next quarter: Snapcoin

~~~
accosine
All social apps will sooner or later have a payment story to stay relevant -
see WeChat.

------
TheRealPomax
But: "does anyone else not open Snapchat anymore? Or is it just me... ugh this
is so sad." \-- Kylie Jenner, moments before she caused Snapchat's stock price
to tank.

~~~
giancarlostoro
Still surprised they have not bothered to address the UI redesign that many
complain about.

