

Ask HN: Would HN be better without votes and with tagged streams? - jayfuerstenberg

A thought occurred to me this morning...  A lot of reputable people posting interesting topics are stuck in the "new" page getting pushed down the page, further cementing their demise.  I used to think it was just me but today Florian Mueller, the chief blogger at FOSSPatents is drowning with only 2 points for this submission ( http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2880510 ).  Is it a boring topic?  Let's examine it...<p>Google... check!
Software patents... check!
Lodsys... check!<p>These seem to topics of interest to the HN crowd and very timely news.  We're not talking "The history of yarn and knitting patterns" here.<p>Did it just go unnoticed or is there gaming at play here to promote the submissions of a select few?<p>I honestly don't know.  My own submissions, which I thought would be inline with the average HN reader's interests, have suffered a similar fate and I took it upon myself to research getting on the HN front page.<p>The advice is bleak...
1. Be a super-important person.
2. Be part of a Digg-like clique which trades up-votes.
3. Make your own fake users and up-vote yourself.<p>I'm not super important and I don't want to lower myself by cheating.
Instead I want to propose another option...<p>SCRAP THE VOTING SYSTEM ALTOGETHER!<p>Instead offer...
1. A giant fire hose with all the submissions for those who can handle it.
2. Tag-based streams where submissions can assign up to 3 tags to describe their content. (ex: "patents", "google", "lodsys")<p>HN readers can specify tags they're interested in (as many as they like in fact) as well as tags they are not interested in.  This filters the fire hose!
They see news they want to see and avoid the news that doesn't interest them and there is no incentive to game the system.  They can turn off the filter and explore new topics if they wish too!<p>I PUT THESE QUESTIONS TO YOU...<p>Have you had your contributions to HN languish in obscurity when the next person posts something similar only to be launched to the front page within minutes?
What do you think of these ideas?
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benologist
The reason they fall into obscurity is there's a crapton of people who are
only here to submit their own website, or to build karma by submitting fluff
(eg a gruber article where he literally just links to another site).

I do like your idea, except it destroys discovering stuff that is just plain
interesting - like that "How can I do something meaningful" thread on the
front page now.

~~~
jayfuerstenberg
Thank you for your feedback!

I'm one of those people that posts links to updates on my blog. Advertising,
in and of itself, is not a bad thing in my opinion. If you cured cancer but
forgot to tell anybody nobody would stand to benefit. But yeah, some
advertisers really go too far to grab your attention.

As for Daring Fireball, it's really great site and I learn a tremendous amount
by visiting it, even if John Gruber's just linking to something. The traffic
his site gets goes to help those to whom he links and the readers get
introduced to new apps and blogs. It's no different than HN in some regards,
only more curated.

In any case, thanks again!

~~~
mooism2
When Daring Fireball (or any other blog) merely links to something elsewhere,
it usually doesn't make sense to submit the DF post to HN: instead submit what
DF linked to. In this case the DF post is superfluous to anyone who isn't
directly following DF's feed.

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sixtofour
I don't think there is significant influence from cliques. Things just stream
down the new page too guickly, in part from lots of posts (as noted by
benologist), and in part because it's annoyingly frustrating to try to skim
downstream before the infamous HN Expired Link (which Hubski seems to have
solved).

As for too many posts, that's not much of a problem, you can skim pretty
quickly (notwithstanding expired links). Crap has its own smell and is easily
avoided.

~~~
jayfuerstenberg
Yes, the stream moves too quickly, and this is where tagged-based streams
would help. I think submissions would stick around longer in the filtered
stream, exposing them for longer periods to people who want to find them.

------
angelortega
I also thought of something suspicious in the front page when seeing the same
repeated story jump to top in minutes and languish with 1 point just for
having different wording (I then attributed the difference in success to
that).

I happen to find more interesting stuff in the "new" queue than in the front
page (among the crud, of course). Maybe the likes of the mass does not match
mine.

