
Why the 2012 non-Retina MacBook Pro still sells - daigoba66
https://marco.org/2016/01/04/md101ll-a
======
verisimilitude
I'm writing this from a late 2008 Macbook (the first Unibody Macbook, and the
direct ancestor of the Macbook the article talks about). On this laptop, I
finished school, develop, Photoshop, store all my pictures/videos/music. It is
my only machine. It's great. I'm about to purchase my third battery for it
(they decline dramatically at around 1300 loadcycles); replacement is very
simple (there's a door on mine), even though Apple no longer sells replacement
batteries. I've maxed the ram to 8GB, put in a 256GB SSD.

So what happens when I finally purchase a new laptop, use it for 5 years, and
Apple no longer supports replacing the battery? Then I'm spudgering out glued-
in batteries with iFixit's iOpener. And I'd eventually like to upgrade to
512GB, but $700 up from the base price of the 13" Macbook Pro is not how I
want to do it... I'd rather wait and upgrade it myself. Will OWC make the SSD
card to do it? Hopefully. It's just... disappointing. I'd like a way to get
the bulletproofness (just over 7 years on this one without issue) of a solid
aluminum unibody but not give up the upgradeability.

Perhaps I'm a dinosaur.

Guess I'll shoot for another 3 years with this thing until the base Macbook
Pros are a significant upgrade. Oh well.

~~~
Alex3917
My primary computer is also a late 2008 MBP with 8GB ram. I have to say,
having used a modern MBP at my last job, it's crazy how little day-to-day
difference there is. I do plan to finally upgrade if the Skylake MBPs are
good, but if not then there's really no immediate reason to do so. Given the
rate of change in the 90s, it's wild to think that this thing might make it
past Obama's presidency on both ends.

------
gruturo
One additional reason it still makes sense as a product: last 3-4 years have
been... Quite underwhelming, from a CPU power perspective. A little bit of
power efficiency, which does have its place on a laptop, but other than that,
hardly anything noticeable in day to day use.

Intel is _clearly_ not feeling the heat from competition and their pricing,
minimal improvement and feature fragmentation clearly show it.

Giving up on AMD ever going back to making them feel a bit of heat again.

So wishing for Apple to release an ARM MacBook, just to put some fear into
Intel, and return some health to the market.

~~~
forrestthewoods
I want an ARM MacBook as that implies OS X on ARM which means an iPad Pro
should be able to dual boot

~~~
rbanffy
ARM is not magic. I bet that as soon as it performs in the same range as an
x86 under OSX, power consumption will be similar. You may feel better the ISA
is neater, and that it may be Windows-proof, but that's about all you'll have.

~~~
jodrellblank
_it may be Windows-proof_

Fear not, Windows runs on ARM and has done for several years.

[https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/b8/2012/02/09/building-
wind...](https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/b8/2012/02/09/building-windows-for-
the-arm-processor-architecture/)

~~~
rbanffy
Yes, but they'd still need to port some bits and pieces. I don't see Microsoft
doing that.

~~~
jodrellblank
You think they would't port Windows to run on an ARM MacBook? Do you know they
made Windows to run on the Raspberry Pi (
[https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/windows-10-for-
iot/](https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/windows-10-for-iot/) )?

Because I think a MacBook version would have even more backing than that.

------
shirro
I have an ancient mid-2009 MacBook. I walked out the Apple retailer and
straight into a cut-price PC parts shop and upgraded the ram and hard drive to
avoid some Apple tax. I am probably overdue to replace my second battery but I
haven't been travelling much for awhile. My second or third HDD was swapped
for an SSD quite some time ago.

It wouldn't be fast enough for some jobs but as long as I have browser and
terminal I cope ok. I have been going to replace it for years but Apple keep
on making more and more unserviceable hardware.

I am a very satisfied Apple customer who will never buy another Apple product.
When this machine dies I will buy a quality laptop that isn't disposable and
run Linux again.

~~~
escap
> I will buy a quality laptop that isn't disposable and run Linux again.

you have a model to suggest ?

~~~
shirro
Not really. The Mac keeps on going. I lost interest and stopped looking. I
bought a nice carbon road bike instead. Much better investment for me. All
those components I can adjust, swap and upgrade for the life of the bike. Jobs
wanted using a computer to be like riding a bike. Here we are in 2016 and I
can still upgrade a bike. No hope with the shit the computer industry is
making.

At one stage I thought I should put business Dell's way because they made an
effort shipping some XPS-13 with Ubuntu but they were limited to 8GB. I had
that in 2009. What is the point?

The nail in the coffin for an upgrade was when I bought a Chromebook to play
with. I realised I could just about live with a machine that only had a
terminal and browser. I moved local dev to VPS and I can scale that however I
want, whenever I want. No concerns about soldered in RAM there. The Chromebook
was a bit flakey so I went back to the Mac, deleted a heap of virtual machines
and containers and apps and I pretty much live in Chrome and iTerm2 now and
feel less pressure to change than I did two years ago.

------
soared
> It’s very inexpensive, even when specced up. $1400 buys the fastest CPU, 8
> GB of RAM, and a 1 TB disk from Apple

I had to laugh a little at this. $900 bought me a 5th gen i7, 16gb RAM, 1TB
SSD and 256gb SSD. I do have to suffer through w10 and a lenovo backdoor
though.

~~~
dflock
You don't _have_ to - you can install a different OS, if you want to.

~~~
soared
Hackintosh for my model is said to be unstable, otherwise I would've done osx
in a hertbeart. Linux is fun to play with, but not something I am willing to
use day-to-day. This laptop and w10 have killed all my M$ enthusiasm though,
my next computer WILL be a mac.

------
petemc_
The built-in ethernet is the biggest selling point for me. My work often
requires me to plug into various devices via wired ethernet and it's almost
guaranteed I would forget/lose an adapter one day.

If the 2008 macbook I've used every day since I bought it new fails, and the
spare I got from a rich client who felt the need to upgrade also fails, I
would probably consider buying 2012 version.

~~~
rsync
I cannot believe this ... I read it here in your comment and I read it in the
article ...

This is the only mac laptop available with an ethernet port ? Seriously ?

The current large size (15", right ?) macbook pro does not have an RJ45 port ?

~~~
derefr
You can look up a picture, but to paint one more evocatively through
description: there's about 2mm of metal casing above and below the USB ports.
The sides are effectively one USB-port high. RJ-45 ain't gonna fit.

~~~
Symbiote
With a little ingenuity, an ethernet port could have fitted [1].

A new Macbook Pro is my first Mac (provided by work), and I was surprised how
much crap like this there was, which the other developers mentioned over the
course of my first day. "Oh, you'll need a Magsafe to Magsafe 2 adaptor."
"Careful with the Thunderbolt to ethernet adaptor, we've had to replace two
motherboards when the cables snagged on the port." "Here's a USB hub."

And the Mac keyboard has a non-standard USB plug [2], as well as the non-
standard keyboard layout.

Apple have very effective marketing though, the other developers didn't seem
to think there was any other laptop which had a metal body, or comparable
battery life.

[1]
[http://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_migrated/pics/Sony_V...](http://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_migrated/pics/Sony_Vaio_X_79.jpg)

[2] [http://i.imgur.com/YhjBHOI.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/YhjBHOI.jpg)

------
cooper12
One reason not mentioned is that you can actually replace the disk drive with
a caddy to put in another hard drive. I replaced mine with an SSD. I also
upgraded the RAM so I could finally appease Chrome because I would get a lot
of swapping to disk previously. I'd say it's quite competitive to the later
models and does everything I need. (Just don't look at a retina screen or
you'll be jealous) Repairability is a huge feature that is being lost, so I'm
very grateful to iFixit for advocating for it and putting out such valuable
guides. Sadly, there's an issue with mine where the hard drive cable breaks
after a few months and I've had to get it replaced about 4 times already. The
thermals also aren't very good so under heavy CPU load it heats up, though
that doesn't happen for me much unless I (rarely) play a game or use all my
cores. The added ports are just a bonus, even if I don't use them often like
the Ethernet port.

Edit: Just noticed that it is mentioned in the first footnote.

~~~
slantyyz
I did that drive bay caddy thing on my 2011 MBP for a while. That setup ate
battery like you wouldn't believe. I could barely get 2 hours of time on it.

Thankfully, SSD prices dropped significantly and I ended up replacing both
drives with a 1TB SSD and sticking the optical back into it.

------
dkrich
The short version of this is that there is a lot of money to be made from
enterprises by selling them outdated technology because enterprises are almost
always slow to adopt new technology. That's how Dell and Microsoft Sharepoint
still make a lot of money.

It's not necessarily a bad thing when taking into account the economics of
training IT personnel and the added costs of supporting cutting edge
technologies. But I don't think many individual buyers would argue that the
2012 MBP is a better computer in pretty much any way than a 2015 MBP with
Retina display.

~~~
eitally
I see a lot of complaints about Sharepoint, but this one is new to me. What
about it is outdated, and especially when you compare it to what other
options? I'm no fan, and Sharepoint is super-heavy and requires enterprisey-
typical levels of care & feeding, but it's a mature platform and offers a lot
of pretty spiffy bells & whistles when correctly configured. None of the open
source options remotely compare.

~~~
dkrich
_I 'm no fan, and Sharepoint is super-heavy and requires enterprisey-typical
levels of care & feeding, but it's a mature platform_

You seem to have just agreed with me.

The Sharepoint vs. open source argument is a straw-man, since I never once
mentioned open source. Sharepoint is used by all manner of organization for
all manner of tasks. I just recently ran into an organization using it as a
CMS platform. Past teams I've been on have used it as a document sharing
platform, but even that experience is far from ideal. Sharepoint is used
because enterprises are not in the risk business when it comes to software
procurement. But for document review and sharing there are a host of better
options available. Very few small teams that I've worked on that had their own
control over what software they used chose to use Sharepoint of their own
volition. Take that as you will.

~~~
eitally
Actually, I'm not agreeing at all. I think software (especially extensible
platforms) are perfectly allowed to require care & feeding.

I also agree that Sharepoint is misused frequently, and that it's totally
unsuited to small teams. But that's not what we're talking about here. We're
talking about large enterprises, which the GP said is ostensibly why Google
bought Bebop.

------
centizen
This 2012 MacBook has been a cult hit amongst doctors and other medical
professionals that I support, largely because patient information is still
transferred via CD or DVD.

~~~
mrpippy
Makes me think that there could be a business in making a snap-in case for the
12" MacBook to add an optical drive, extra battery, Ethernet, etc.

~~~
derefr
Interesting thought. I could picture it for an iPad Pro as well: a "docking
station" with peripherals, that is itself portable. You could market it
primarily as an extra battery, the way those "portable USB chargers" work.

------
bbody
I am also still on the 2012 non-Retina MacBook Pro and I love it. I have added
an SDD, moved HDD to DVD slot, replaced the battery and added an extra 8gb of
RAM (will upgrade to 16gb when I can justify it).

I love my MacBook Pro and am dreading when I have to upgrade, the price of
buying a new one doesn't seem worth it considering just a moderate spec
upgrade.

------
Negative1
Writing this on mine right now. I went with the mid-priced model figuring the
HDD size and extra RAM would basically cost me about the same if I bought and
installed them myself.

After a year I took out the DVD drive and replaced it with a 512GB SSD giving
me over a TB of storage. That hurt the battery life (and increased the weight)
quite a bit but it dramatically decreased startup time, made everything a bit
faster and made sure I wasn't constantly hurting for storage.

Next up is the battery which is definitely not holding the same charge
anymore.

At work I have the latest and greatest and it is fantastic but most of that is
just cake for most users. Biggest things I like about newer Macs? Retina and a
thinner/lighter profile. For the really hefty stuff (games, graphics
programming, 3d modeling...) I have a custom built PC from the same time that
blows it away performance wise.

In the end, right tool right job.

------
yuhong
I have been thinking about Apple and EPEAT for a while now. Why not make
MacBooks with removable batteries etc that are not outdated for governments
etc that need it?

~~~
derefr
Apple's laptop internals are increasingly commoditized, to the point that with
things like the 12" Macbook, you can basically consider them a battery in a
case with ~$100 worth of other stuff attached. You may as well throw the whole
thing in the battery recycling bin. (Also, given the way the battery cells are
packed directly inside the case now, a sealed Macbook has the same number of
layers of aluminum between the recycler and the electrolyte as a regular AA
battery has. It'd probably be _more_ trouble for the recycler if you take the
battery _out_ : they'd be having to deal with a soft bag of electrolyte that
may have been punctured in transit.)

~~~
yuhong
There is still the matter of EPEAT though.

------
bluedino
The 13" Air can often be had for $799 which makes it that much more appealing.

I have an i7 2012 13" Pro loaded up with 8GB of RAM and 512GB SSD. It's a
pretty potent machine but the screen resolution holds it back somewhat - I
wish they had put a 1440x900 screen in it like the Air.

------
tomcam
All the bad things people are saying/ implying about the new MacBook are
completely right! But the truth is, I wouldn't trade mine for anything,
because I love the fact that it's incredibly light and does not have a fan. I
have many, many, MacBook Airs and mac pros, but the MacBook Air has always
seemed to have a problem with the fan going on at random. Now that there's no
fan, I'm a very happy developer.

------
Overtonwindow
An excellent write up. In 2013 I was afraid they were going to get rid of the
101, so I bought it. Still using it today, and I just purchased a hard drive
upgrade to put in it. It will probably be my last MacBook for many years to
come. Upgradability, is the most important feature in my book. I still have A
2009 model running Snow Leopard, and it works great. I see no reason to go to
a retina machine

~~~
xt00
My wife is using a 2009 15" MBP with SSD and original spinning HD moved to the
opti-bay, and maxed out RAM -- same upgrades for me except I have the late
2012 MBP 15".

The trackpad is one of the _main_ reasons I love the mac book pro's -- the PC
laptops all have such crap trackpads I just can barely stand the computer at
all--on my mac I never use an external mouse -- ever. I think the stupid /
dirty / lame reason Apple switched to the retina MBP's is that they are easier
to force people to upgrade.. super difficult to upgrade hardly anything, super
lame..

I use VMWare Fusion like crazy and its awesome.. with a fast quad core CPU,
SSD, and ~8-16GB of RAM, VM's are awesome on the MAC.

------
discodave
I hear that a large Seattle based software company known for being 'cheap'
gives their developers the oldest/cheapest Macbooks that they can...

:)

~~~
mrsteveman1
You reminded me of this interesting bit of tech history :)

> "It's an alpha kit, it has the Power PC processor. It's the closest thing to
> what is in the console. It's the best source," Mario Rodriguez, a Microsoft
> employee on hand at Microsoft's Xbox 360 booth at E3, told TMO.

> The Xbox 360 has long been known to use a special version of the G5
> processor, as has the fact that temporary Xbox development systems were
> modified Power Mac G5 units. The demonstration at E3, however, are the first
> time that Power Macs have been used to show Xbox 360 games to the public.

[http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/Power_Mac_G5s_run_Mic...](http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/Power_Mac_G5s_run_Microsofts_XBox_360_Demos_at_E3)

------
secondtimeuse
I just realized that this is the one that I use and love. Given the ample
number of ports USB/Ethernet/Thunderbolt and SSD I have never felt a need to
replace it. The lack of non-Retina screen does not bothers me much since I use
it with an external monitor. Having read this article I am now worried about
breaking it since it seems Apple has no better options yet.

------
jtcond13
Writing this from a mid-2009 13" MacBook Pro (2.26 Ghz processor). I've also
upgraded RAM/HD over the years, as well as replacing the battery. It's mostly
for internet with some occasional programming and sound editing. It runs the
latest Mac OS.

Is there an obvious reason to upgrade that I'm missing?

------
mindo
I have late 2011 MBP 13. I did upgrade it with 16GB ram/512SSD and 32GB
MiniDrive (SD). Don't see any reason to upgrade ATM. Looking at MBP 12''
single port insanity im scared to even think about it...

------
doggydogs94
I needed a Mac to write iPhone apps using XCode. I found a 101 on eBay for
about $750; 256GB SSD plus 4GB memory; upgraded to 16GB memory for $80. The
101 was perfect for what I wanted.

------
ddingus
This is my favorite model. Just suffered a spill and I'm debating whether to
fix it, and I have once before, and it was not easy, or get another one...

------
rileymat2
I love my current 17 inch 2011 MacBook Pro for a lot of reasons outlined in
the article and will not be happy when I need to replace it.

------
mschuster91
13 inch is SMALL. Does a MBP exist with the same features (user-accessible
disk/ram/battery/optical) in the 15in range?

~~~
xt00
Yea when they killed the 15" MBP with matte display, I pretty much freaked out
since I was planning on buying it as my main computer from the remainder of my
life if Apple continued to exist as a company.. instead, I am now trying to
figure out what to do next.. I've been thinking about getting a new computer,
but really don't want to buy a non-apple piece of junk that has a super crappy
battery or trackpad or display.. those are things apple just does a great job
with and are so critical to the normal use of the device, and most other
vendors do a terrible job with..

~~~
mschuster91
tbh the long battery life of OS X/iOS devices is a byproduct of a more
resource-efficient OS.

Apple really can optimize its kernel and userland because it controls the
hardware, Microsoft (and Google/Android) not as much because their software
needs to run on everything that people dream up when smoking pot.

