
The Americans of the Panama Papers have been exposed - acconrad
https://offshoreleaks.icij.org/search?c=USA&cat=1&e=&j=&q=&utf8=%E2%9C%93
======
hackuser
If you click one of the names, it displays an important message:

 _Please read the statement below before searching

There are legitimate uses for offshore companies and trusts. We do not intend
to suggest or imply that any persons, companies or other entities included in
the ICIJ Offshore Leaks Database have broken the law or otherwise acted
improperly. Many people and entities have the same or similar names. We
suggest you confirm the identities of any individuals or entities located in
the database based on addresses or other identifiable information. If you find
an error in the database please get in touch with us._

~~~
dmix
Any system that can be exploited will be. You can either blame that people who
find loopholes or blame the system for allowing them to exist.

I suspect the majority of the blame goes to governments who favour extremely
complex tax law. As any hacker knows the bigger the attack surface the more
vulnerabilities exist.

Sadly the solution many countries are now calling for to confront the
prevalence of shell companies is to add more regulations and reporting laws to
identify stakeholders at the time the money is being used at the final
destination. This might be effective at weeding out the bad players but
further increases costs for the honest businesses and diminishes their right
to privacy.

Surely there must be solutions that allows for privacy of transactions among
private individuals to exist while still ensuring that appropriate taxes get
paid.

Typically it's the source country that's the problem. For example, tons of
money is siphoned out of African countries via "transfer mispricing" [1] which
is largely a regulatory failure in those countries and tax haven middlemen.
Whereas the burden of uncovering the stakeholders is largely left to the
countries at the end of the chain, which face a much more complex and
difficult task of uncovering the players, than it would be stopping it at the
source.

Simplifying tax law at the destination country to make tax obligations
explicit plus shifting costs to the source/middlemen to incentivize reducing
corruption in their own regulatory systems - instead of adding more burden to
honest businessmen in the destination countries. Basically focusing
energy/resources onto the source countries systems rather than just blindly
throwing more aid money at corrupt governments which simply fuels the
siphoning. The US and other western countries should be setting an example and
fixing their own tax flight issues for other countries to follow.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_pricing#Fraud](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_pricing#Fraud)

------
dmix
An interesting (but superficial) observation of the list of Canadian officers
is how about 30-40% of the names sound Chinese while they represent only about
10% of the total population:

[https://offshoreleaks.icij.org/search?c=CAN&cat=1&e=&j=&q=&u...](https://offshoreleaks.icij.org/search?c=CAN&cat=1&e=&j=&q=&utf8=%E2%9C%93)

This must be a common tax/business strategy among Asian communities in Canada.
Possibly due to the very large amount of Chinese real estate investors in
Canadian properties in Vancouver and Toronto.

I suspect this would be enough to throw off recent statistics I've heard that
claim the Chinese real estate investor boom is a 'myth' [1]. It's possible
they just route the transactions through local shell companies so any surface
level investigation into the buyers would make it appear that they are local.

[1] > In Canada, realtors do not tally foreign investment in residential real
estate. However, the _limited data_ compiled by research firms suggests the
impact is negligible. [http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-
columbia/scant-e...](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-
columbia/scant-evidence-behind-myth-of-vancouver-real-estates-foreign-
buyers/article9000860/)

~~~
hackuser
I don't agree that eyeballing a list of one law firm's clients says something
about all Canadians of Chinese descent. If the data matches your eyeball
estimate, it says something about only that law firm's clients.

~~~
scythe
I don't think that's what he's saying, and if any attempt to talk about the
behavior of China's nouveau-riche -- a small, but comparatively very wealthy
subset of Chinese investors in Canada -- is reduced to race-baiting about
something which nobody seriously believes is characteristic of all Chinese
immigrants (and which is the product of China's government's policies, not the
investors' disposition) or for that matter even most of the recent ones --
after all, the vast majority of people are not wealthy -- then how can we ever
reasonably discuss it?

~~~
hackuser
> race-baiting

I didn't say or even think anything about racism.

> I don't think that's what he's saying

Then what do you think he/she is saying? Also, whatever group the commenter is
talking about, my comment stands - this isn't really data about the larger
group.

------
seeingfurther
Sanford I. Weill is the biggest name I've spotted so far. I'm sure there are
many more.
[https://offshoreleaks.icij.org/nodes/12116280](https://offshoreleaks.icij.org/nodes/12116280)

~~~
gk1
For anyone else wondering who that is:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanford_I._Weill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanford_I._Weill)

~~~
toomuchtodo
r3bl: Any chance Wikipedia links could be associated with the records?

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mmaunder
Looks like there's a big hollywood name in there. Hint: His brother and dad
changed their names to sound more 'American'.

~~~
eganist
Emilio Estevez?
[https://offshoreleaks.icij.org/nodes/12121491](https://offshoreleaks.icij.org/nodes/12121491)

~~~
gk1
If you're trying to fly under the radar, I can't think of a more generic name
than BUSINESS & CORPORATE SERVICES, INC.

~~~
uola
Usually, at least in jurisdiction where this takes some time, companies will
be pre-registered under a generic name and there's no real need to change it
if you don't use it for trade.

[https://www.apintertrust.com/offshore_company/shelf_company_...](https://www.apintertrust.com/offshore_company/shelf_company_list.htm)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelf_corporation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelf_corporation)

~~~
harryjo
> Not to be confused with "shell corporation".

which is nearly identical but one key difference.

------
Alupis
Do we have proof of wrong-doing here? I may have honestly missed it if there
is some.

From what I've seen, we have a group of folks who have used the laws of the
land to their advantage. If that's the case, there's nothing wrong with that,
and it would be fairly dumb to not use the laws to one's advantage.

It's not patriotic to pay more in taxes than one is legally obligated to pay.

Even us "mere mortals" do the best tax dance we can come April, cramming in
all those extra credits and deductions, sometimes even fudging the numbers
here and there. Our only disadvantage is we cannot afford to hire professional
companies to do this tax dance on our behalf.

I'd argue, if folks are upset by the current tax laws that allow (and some may
even argue, encourage) this behavior, then we ought to change the laws, not
get upset at those capable or smart enough to use them to their advantage.

~~~
michaelmrose
"I'd argue, if folks are upset by the current tax laws that allow (and some
may even argue, encourage) this behavior, then we ought to change the laws,
not get upset at those capable or smart enough to use them to their
advantage."

Can't we do both. Personally I like to multitask.

"It's not patriotic to pay more in taxes than one is legally obligated to
pay."

No but its stingy and crass for those who doing well to skip out on paying
their share because they can. Can we admit their is a qualitative difference
between filling out a form to take a credit and hiring a team of lawyers to
hide your money in a foreign shell company?

"sometimes even fudging the numbers here"

So you regularly commit felonies in order to avoid paying your share?

------
rubidium
an article about some of the americans:
[https://panamapapers.icij.org/20160509-american-
fraudsters-o...](https://panamapapers.icij.org/20160509-american-fraudsters-
offshore.html)

------
r0m4n0
Interesting this was banished from the front page. Any insight into why that
would happen?

~~~
greenyoda
People probably flagged it as a duplicate of yesterday's submission:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11664322](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11664322)

------
dang
The site was posted yesterday:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11664322](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11664322)

------
room505
Does anyone blame these people for hiding their wealth when they know how
wasteful government is? Shouldn't we be looking deep underground in government
waste and political misconduct?

~~~
hackuser
Yes. Why should I, and everyone else, pay more taxes to cover their fair
share?

I definitely want government to be less corrupt and wasteful (though I think
the situation is greatly exaggerated, and the U.S. government is among the
least corrupt), but somehow we need to pay for those services.

If they want more or less services from government, they have a chance to
convince their fellow citizens to vote for what they want. But an essential
part of the deal is that, once the law is written, like it or not we're all
covered by it. Majority rules.

