
Coca-Cola to buy Costa coffee for £3.9bn - AhmadM91
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45365893
======
mjal
I'm concerned with the continual buyout of large established UK companies by
US ones. It's happened a lot in the past ~10 years, most notably Cadbury's,
and not only are there tax implications, but the standard of product seems to
drop to the lowest acceptable while attempting to keep the same prices.
There's also the issue with business ethics of the parent company, which tend
to be rather different than the UK.

~~~
dazc
Fair point on Cadbury but to make Costa's coffee any worse is going to be a
bit of a challenge.

~~~
keiferski
Costa is still dramatically better than Dunkin Donuts, for example.

~~~
jameskegel
I’d be curious to see the data upon which you base this false assertion.

~~~
keiferski
Of course it’s ultimately my opinion, but Dunkin Donuts has awful coffee and
always has. Anyone with an appreciation for coffee would likely agree.

~~~
lghh
I think that anyone with appreciate for coffee would understand certain coffee
has a time and a place, even coffee from big chain coffee places or
restaurants.

------
kristianc
Not as weird a fit as it might seem. Coca-Cola's Ready To Drink coffee brand
in Japan, Georgia Coffee, is incredibly profitable (accounts for around 12% of
Coca-Cola's global profit, despite only really being sold in Japan.)

[https://www.coca-colacompany.com/stories/georgia-coffee-
is-t...](https://www.coca-colacompany.com/stories/georgia-coffee-is-the-
worlds-highest-grossing--ready-to-drink-co)

~~~
fuzzymooples
Strongly recommend the bizarre Twin Peaks ads they made with the cast in the
90s
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3acm7j9k_1w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3acm7j9k_1w)

------
baxtr
When I lived in the states a friend of mine always used to say: “Starbucks
sells fat and sugar to people, so their mainly competing against McDonalds”

That made a lot of sense to me, and I could understand much better why they
would introduce McCafes. Thus I think that this is probably a smart move
although a bit late...

~~~
chrisseaton
I think Costa does more normal teas and coffees rather than milkshakes or
whatever you're referring to.

~~~
cs02rm0
Costa were in the news for selling a coffee with more calories in it than a
double cheeseburger.

But then McDonalds, I think, already sell more coffee than anyone else in the
UK, so I guess they're converging from both directions.

~~~
yomly
I always struggle with the doublethink that a "coffee" (that is, a black
coffee) has nearly 0 calories. But a "coffee" (that is a drink that is really
fat and sugar with some coffee added there) could have x calories where x is a
stupidly large number...

~~~
mgkimsal
yeah, even 'coffee' with milk is... the calories of milk. and I like a lot of
milk in my coffee. or... I like a bit of coffee with my milk, to be more
precise. so i've needed to watch how many I have. can't really deal with plain
black coffee.

~~~
yomly
you should really have a go at persisting with black coffee - it's definitely
acquired, but I really can't imagine coffee any other way.

~~~
stephenhuey
Yes, I didn’t get into coffee till college and sugary stuff was my gateway,
but I knew people enjoyed black coffee and made a concerted effort to develop
a taste for it, and now I really can detect subtleties in single origin beans
similar to what wine enthusiasts experience. Occasionally I have coffee with
milk, especially if it’s bad coffee, but my taste buds thinks of that as
something else entirely. Find a coffee shop with some helpful but OCD baristas
who will take the time with you to give you good samples of pour over or
French press or chemex, etc to see if they can win you over to “black” coffee.
The benefits in the end outweigh any effort you might have to put in!

~~~
yomly
Yeah, a good pour-over is really something different to a burnt-bitter crap
americano (which I will still drink...)

------
rdl
I’m kind of surprised post-sales tax nexus Amazon hasn’t bought a coffee chain
yet. Starbucks might be too big to do comfortably, but a combination of some
higher end local brands (Intelligentsia, Philz, etc) aggregated into some
overarching metabrand would be interesting. Let the cafes run everything as
they have, with infinite capital available, and focus on providing additional
value added services on premise (obviously lockers but maybe some next-gen
amazon services).

Philz would almost make sense if they could put 1Gbps connectivity into AWS
and specifically base the performance of the deal on AWS signups.

~~~
arnon
I suspect they might end up buying Starbucks

~~~
krn
Starbucks would nicely fit with Whole Foods and Landmark Theaters, both
already owned by Amazon and targeting American upper-middle class.

------
andrewingram
Of the big coffee shop chains in the UK, Costa is actually my preferred one.
None of them do great coffee, but Costa has the smoothest flavour which is
what I prefer. I also think their paninis and carrot cake beats out the other
offerings.

------
tonyedgecombe
Hopefully they will destroy it, the UK is overrun with these mediocre coffee
shops.

~~~
sjwright
Indeed, and Australia demonstrates that it doesn't have to be like that. In
most similar verticals we are very similar to either the UK, the US or both.
Take McDonalds: incredibly successful fast food shop in Australia. That
American success story works here, as does KFC and Domino's.

But when Starbucks arrived, it was a hilariously dismal flop because we
already had sufficiently good coffee at all of our local non-chain cafes (and
_exceptionally_ good coffee at a non trivial subset of them).[1]

When Australians stop for a coffee on the way to work, a large number of us
are going to a local cafe. We do have chains, but none of them command more
than a very small share of the overall coffee market.[2]

Ironically, the number one coffee chain in Australia is almost certainly
McCafe. And there's reason for that: the McCafe brand was an invention of
McDonalds Australia to help their restaurants stay relevant in the Australian
market. Because they emphasised quality from day one, the menu was native to
Australian tastes, and the restaurants were already popular for their
traditional fare, it has been a remarkable success. (McCafe in other countries
is often little more than a brand on the cup; in Australia it's a third of the
restaurant interior, with its own counter and menu. [3][4][5])

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FGUkxn5kZQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FGUkxn5kZQ)

[2] [https://www.smartcompany.com.au/growth/aussies-flock-to-
loca...](https://www.smartcompany.com.au/growth/aussies-flock-to-local-
baristas-as-big-coffee-chains-struggle-to-grind-out-market-share/)

[3]
[http://blueskydesigngroup.com.au/project/mcdonalds/](http://blueskydesigngroup.com.au/project/mcdonalds/)

[4] [http://juicydesign.com.au/project/item/mcdonalds-
playground-...](http://juicydesign.com.au/project/item/mcdonalds-playground-
australia/)

[5] [https://www.moodiedavittreport.com/sydney-airport-opens-
new-...](https://www.moodiedavittreport.com/sydney-airport-opens-new-
mcdonalds-as-t1-dining-offer-takes-shape/)

~~~
bena
Am I seriously thinking about going to Australia just to visit a McDonald's
now?

~~~
sjwright
We have the best McDonald's in the world. I'm universally disappointed
whenever I visit it in other countries.

~~~
fhood
I wouldn't go that far, but they are pretty good. Still can't believe there
are places where you can get lamb at a mcdonalds.

------
koolhead17
Hey Costa/coca cola. Please get us a regular size cappuccino glasses. We don't
want coffee served in soup bowl out here in India.

------
kingosticks
Could this be a consequence of the UK's sugar tax and an attempt to diversify
as the revenue from traditional Coca-Cola shrinks? I appreciate they have
no/low sugar alternate products but they must still have taken a big hit from
that legislation.

~~~
gsnedders
The Coca-Cola Company only owns 18% of Coca-Cola European Partners, and I'd
expect it'd have smaller consequences of the amount of syrup CCEP buys (given
some of the movement will be to Diet and Zero).

------
JulianMorrison
Costa has always felt to me an also ran between the coffee milkshake chain
Starbucks and the slightly more serious Caffe Nero. I wonder what Coca Cola
plans to do with it?

~~~
Nursie
> Costa has always felt to me an also ran ...

But appears to be the largest coffee chain in Europe, in terms of branches and
revenue, from what I could find.

------
ChrisArchitect
Interesting move, and interesting infographic there about chains in Europe and
US. Noted McCafe doesn't register in US stats, but maybe that's because
McDonald's coffee (no small play) is really inside the restaurants and McCafe
was the route in the EU for shop sizes etc

------
AJRF
Do american coffee chains do things like cappuchino, latte, flat white, etc?

Or is it mostly black filter coffee?

~~~
mikekchar
Flat white is (or at least was) an Australian thing. Never seen it anywhere
else (though I suppose it might be spreading). But, Starbucks has everything
else (and then some).

~~~
AJRF
I thought Flat White was a London thing. I know it originated from Australia,
but its well known as being the overpriced banker/technology
worker/lawyer/well paid person drink in London.

[https://www.amazon.co.uk/Flat-White-Economy-Douglas-
McWillia...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Flat-White-Economy-Douglas-
McWilliams/dp/0715649531)

~~~
mikekchar
I was living in London only 3 or 4 years ago. I never saw it! Weird. But I'm a
coffee nerd, so probably I never went to the kinds of cafes that serve it. I
actually like a proper flat white -- coffee made with milk instead of water.
Just never seen it outside of Australia.

~~~
snowwolf
You can't have looked very hard. So called "Third Wave" artisanal coffee shops
hit London around 13 years ago, mostly started by Australian immigrants
bringing with them the "Flat White". The flat white become such a hipster go
to drink that by 2010 they were added to the Starbucks menu in London.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_white](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_white)

~~~
vilmosi
That's a bit harsh. I moved to London in 2013 and I remember I had to order
flat white off-menu most of the time back then. Most places knew how to make
it but just charged capuchino on the bill. Today it's everywhere.

I was not a Starbucks customer though.

~~~
snowwolf
[http://www.flatwhitesoho.co.uk/](http://www.flatwhitesoho.co.uk/)

“Flat White opened its doors in 2005 because it was nigh impossible to get a
flat white; the strong, delicious creamy coffee of our namesake. London lacked
a strong independent café/coffee culture so we set out to be beacon &
inspiration for other people who loved coffee, independent spirit and good
old-fashioned hospitality. Flash forward and over ten years on London is
thriving with many varied and different coffee offerings- a vibrant and
exciting scene of excellence and commitment to excellence.”

And to add some more context. A New Zealander I know wrote a London coffee map
app around 2010 to teach himself iOS app development. He curated the list of
coffee shops he added to the map (they had to serve a proper flat white) and
at time of release he’d added over 150 coffee shops.

In 2007 and then again in 2009 the world barista champions hailed from London.

All this should give you an idea of how quickly the London artisan coffee
scene exploded in the late “noughties”.

So if you’re claiming to be a coffee nerd who couldn’t find a flat white in
London in 2014, I’m going to say you didn’t look very hard.

Note: Not one chain ever featured on that app. I only mentioned Starbucks
above to illustrate how ubiquitous the Flat White was at that time (2010) that
Starbucks felt they had to add it to their menu to stay relevant/competitive.

~~~
vilmosi
Sorry, I should have mentioned I'm not OP you replied to.

I moved to London in early 2013, and it definitely wasn't that popular. I had
my own group of coffee buddies but I was the only one drinking it. Even today
only 1 in 10 coffee drinkers have it [0].

Note that I did drink flat white all the time back then, it just didn't always
appear on the menu. You just had to ask nicely and most people would make you
one (or try anyway).

Note that Starbucks and Costa do not make flat white IMO, even if they sell a
drink called that.

That said, today is way different and flat whites are everywhere.

[0] [https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/flat-white-
coffee-c...](https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/flat-white-coffee-
culture-antipodean-mcdonalds-advert-starbucks-latte-a8246111.html)

~~~
mikekchar
OP here. Yeah, I arrived in 2012 and left in 2014. I also roast my own coffee,
so I don't drink in cafes very often. When I wanted good espresso (no way I
can afford a decent set up), there were a couple of good shops near where I
worked, but they were _very_ small and they served black espresso only :-) I
_am_ surprised, but then I should have realised that I was never hooked into
mainstream coffee culture in London (which is not nearly as nerdy as I am).

------
adambowles
I posted this 2 hours earlier than this submission, same link same title;
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17883826](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17883826)

------
stuartmalcolm
Am I the only one that is noticing a lot of BBC articles reaching HN frontpage
that have nothing to do with tech?

~~~
meigwilym
Paul Graham says it's for "anything that gratifies one's intellectual
curiosity."

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

~~~
stuartmalcolm
Also "If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic."

------
reustle
Would it make sense to implement some company size cap that prevents them from
buying any more business? CocaCola is big enough...

------
onetimemanytime
Coca Cola...does it sell that colored water with sugar?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Coca-
Cola_brands](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Coca-Cola_brands) Gotta
love them as a company, if people start buying pet rocks, they'll invest in
them. Always moving with the times

~~~
jfaioif3
Be careful man, you could cut yourself on that edge.

