
Tech Blogger Tries To Cancel Comcast Service, Hilarity Ensues - testrun
http://techcrunch.com/2014/07/15/tech-blogger-tries-to-cancel-comcast-service-hilarity-ensues/
======
denisdl
There is a new law here in Brazil since last week [1]: a customer has the
right to cancel any subscription of phone, cable TV or internet contracts
without talking to a representative, by automatic system. Just press some keys
on the phone or fill a form in the company's website and it's done, with
confirmation code and fully cancelled in two business days.

If the customer really wants to talk to a representative to cancel the
services, the cancellation must be effective immediately.

[1]
[https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=pt&tl=en&js=y&prev...](https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=pt&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=pt-
BR&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fg1.globo.com%2Feconomia%2Fseu-
dinheiro%2Fnoticia%2F2014%2F07%2Fcomeca-valer-regra-que-facilita-cancelar-o-
servico-de-telefonia.html&edit-text=)

~~~
boobsbr
What a pain it was to cancel a Telemar landline and Velox DSL subscription. I
had to report them to Anatel. It was the only way to get it cancelled.

------
zerohp
There's only one easy way to cancel service with a company like Comcast. You
have to lie and tell them you're moving to a city that they don't serve.

They don't transfer you to customer retention and you'll be off the phone in a
few minutes.

~~~
oneandoneis2
I usually cover all bases by claiming I'm emigrating and leaving the _country_
\- only way to be sure :)

~~~
hyperliner
"I an in the Navy, and will be in a submarine for the next two years"

~~~
farmdawgnation
Just don't get caught lying on a recording about being a military member.
That's a felony. ;)

~~~
meritt
No, it's not.

I assume you're incorrectly referring to the Stolen Valor Act (of 2013, as the
earlier one was struck down for violating the First Amendment). That law
specifically handles cases in which someone claims they are a recipient of an
award related to combat AND does so with the intent to receive money, property
or a tangible benefit.

Simply lying about military service to a Comcast Support Technician is not a
crime.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
It rather depend where you are. [Yes the assumption here is North America /
USA, not sure on Comcast's reach?]

In the UK under Seamen’s and Soldiers’ False Characters Act 1906 Section 1,
due to a technicality (excision of restricting terms) any [im]personation of
HM Forces' seamen or soldiers is illegal.¹

It's been superseded by the Fraud Act 2006 which is more strict in needing a
fraud to be committed viz "he false representation is made dishonestly and
with the intention of making a gain".

1 -
[http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Edw7/6/5#commentary-c578...](http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Edw7/6/5#commentary-c578537)

2 -
[http://lawcommission.justice.gov.uk/docs/lc308_Statute_Law_R...](http://lawcommission.justice.gov.uk/docs/lc308_Statute_Law_Repeals_18.pdf)
at page 39 (PDF page 43)

~~~
nnnnni
Getting rid of Comcast would definitely be "making a gain". Ugh.

------
michaelfeathers
This being HN no one likes to talk about regulatory solutions, but the silence
on this one is startling. Wasn't there a day in the US when companies would be
fined for this sort of business practice?

Why can't we go there today? Is it simply the triumph of free-market orthodoxy
and a tacit acceptance that to be a consumer today one must subject oneself to
this sort of rapaciousness?

~~~
wallawe
I think you're missing the point all together. The only reason a company can
behave this way and retain the number of customers who would have otherwise
moved elsewhere is because there _isn 't_ a free-market. The companies are run
as oligopolies. It is government intervention and protection that has caused
this problem in the first place which is what most people don't realize.

~~~
warfangle
(edited for source)

There is no such thing as a free market: it is an idealistic theoretical
construct.

And even if it were real, it would only be efficient if P=NP[0].

0\. [http://arxiv.org/abs/1002.2284](http://arxiv.org/abs/1002.2284)

~~~
dllthomas
_" And even if it were real, it would only be efficient if P=NP."_

Because finding global optima is hard? I grant that, but:

1) things can be intractably hard even if P=NP - O(n^10000) is in P, and there
are complexity classes strictly harder than P (e.g. EXPTIME)), and since there
are innumerable moves anyone could take out into the future "optimal resource
distribution" could plausibly fall in EXPTIME.

2) Regardless, any single entity determining optimal resource distribution
_also_ needs to solve the same problem.

If you were saying something else, please clarify.

~~~
warfangle
My edit cited the paper in question, where the author shows how to use markets
to solve NP-complete problems.

Either markets are weak-form efficient and P=NP, or markets are not weak-form
efficient and P≠NP.

~~~
dllthomas
Ah. Cute, but doesn't look like something that can actually be applied to the
real world.

~~~
warfangle
Kind of like theoretical free markets.

~~~
dllthomas
Snarky.

The difference is that you can have a model that is not precise and which
still makes useful predictions. You can't have a proof that's not precise and
still proves P=NP.

Note that it is not "the existence of free markets" that is assumed and breaks
things, but the existence of free markets with a particular formulation of a
particular property. As strictly defined there, weak-form efficiency also
allows seems to allow FTL communication.

------
spodek
We're an entrepreneurial community and here is a case of demand.

Why not meet the demand to cut off internet services?

One idea: create a phone service where I call a third-party (you, the
entrepreneur) that connects me to the best number to cancel my service. The
third party determines if recording the call is legal and records if so,
posting the recording online, along with metadata: date, duration, agent name,
locale, etc. If recording call is not legal, still post metadata, or also get
all parties' permission to record.

Possibly create script through trial and error to counter their script. Can
compile data on agents and supervisors names, can follow up with complaints
for agents or supervisors to customer service, etc. Can file complaints with
elected representatives, FCC, etc... stuff individuals don't have time for but
want to.

Another idea: create a web site that takes subscriber information and mails
effective letter, registered if necessary, to best address for service
provider, using language to set up legal case if necessary.

In both cases, the company could, over time, compile statistics on each
service provider's difficulties, giving some accountability. It could also
discover their weaknesses and overcome what individuals might not be able to.

You can probably think of many other ways to attack the problem and satisfy
the unmet need.

Might not make huge money, but could create great visibility for the
entrepreneur. Then again, it might make huge money too, since so many
companies play hardball retaining customers.

~~~
greggman
Just tell them you're moving to another state/country. Works for me

~~~
Nickoladze
"Oh, you want to transfer your Comcast account to a new home? Tell me your new
address and we can start the migration process."

~~~
alttab
Totally sleezy. No self respecting person would do this. That said, I've dealt
with comcast before. After telling them I would cancel due to their arbitrary
"end of promotion" I was redirected to their "loyalty department" which
miraculously found another promotion for me that would prevent me from paying
$80 a month for slow buffering internet.

~~~
wildpeaks
> _Totally sleezy. No self respecting person would do this_

If it even occured to them it might be sleezy, they'd rationalize that they do
it to please their boss and keep their job, and that it's more important to
them than being decent to a random stranger :/

------
Nursie
I've had lots of trouble with ISPs before. About a decade ago Bulldog
Broadband were the first to offer 8Mb service in London, and at a reasonable
price, and they oversold so massively their staff couldn't cope.

After a month of no service I called to cancel, and after 45 minutes on hold I
gave up. I tried again. And again. Eventually I got through to someone who
processed the cancellation. I got an email saying "To confirm your intended
cancellation, send an email to cancellation-confirmation@..."

That address didn't exist. The next month they started to charge me for a
service I wasn't getting. I had a different ISP by this point. I called and
got the money back. They took it again the next month. I called and got the
money back. The third month I got a letter saying I hadn't paid for three
months, so they took three months money from my card. This time I called and
got the money back and demanded they remove me from their systems. Eventually
someone said OK.

Six months later I got a demand for 9 months service charges. I called and
told them to stuff it. Another six months later they started demanding even
more money and making threats. That's when I started the official (UK)
complaints procedure. You start by writing a long email setting out your
demands, end it by saying "This will also be sent by registered mail, and you
have 30 days to resolve this until I report you to the communications
ombudsman"

The first response I got to that was a letter saying "We understand you'd like
to cancel your service?" So I sent another letter, stating my demands and that
no, there had never been a service to cancel, and by the way this is being
sent by registered post and you have 18 days before I contact the ombudsman.

I think by the third letter it had been resolved, almost 18 months since I
first tried to cancel the account. I had to move house shortly after that
though, and I've worried since then that one day they're going to turn around
and say "hold on, this guy owes us for ten years of broadband! Let's ruin his
credit rating!"

~~~
MichaelApproved
I don't understand why you put up with them charging you so many times. After
the second fraudulent charge, I'd just deal with my credit card company
directly. Call them up and have the charges reversed. You get your money back
and they get punished by their card company for the fraudulent charge.

If more people did this, instead of waiting on hold for hours to fight with
customer service for your own money back, the ISP would likely lose their
merchant account for their fraudulent activity.

Edit: one other note when cancelling, make sure to take down the date, time
and operator name & number during your interactions and note what was said.
When I've had trouble with managing accounts, referencing that information
strengthened my case dramatically.

I have a Google Doc that I keep for all these notes. While I'm on hold, I open
up the doc and get it ready. Be clear that you're taking notes and they'll
take the conversation more seriously too.

~~~
jsumrall
You can pay bills with credit cards?

~~~
xj9
Bank charges are also reversible.

~~~
MichaelApproved
I don't use a debit card much but I heard that you don't get as many consumer
protects with debit cards as you do with credit cards. If you're going to pay
bills, for many reasons, use a credit card instead of debit cards.

~~~
madaxe_again
You have virtually NO consumer protection with a debit card. Once the money is
gone, it is gone.

This is why merchant acquirers charge a flat rate of a few pence for debit
card transactions, and an extortionate percentage for credit card transactions
- chargeback risk. Cannae do with a debit card without bumping into Dante and
his buddy in their digs first.

~~~
MichaelApproved
> a few pence

Is that the case in England? In the States, there are _many_ debit card
protections, they're just not as extensive as credit card protections.

~~~
Nursie
There are some protections in the UK for debit card use, but less than for
credit card. Credit Card use has more legal protections because it is an
instrument of debt, and the CC provider is legally a party to the debt, which
comes with a whole bunch of responsibilities. Debit cards are protected by
some legal stuff and the banking code.

In this case debt is good :)

------
jason_slack
I'm in the Bay Area. I recently switched from a Comcast business circuit down
to a residential circuit. The Comcast Loyalty Rep was fierce. Insisting I owed
them 60 days notice, even though I was in a month to month contract. Told me
he had to have me sign paperwork to cancel that was going to take up to a week
to e-mail to me. I put up a fight, insisted on a supervisor, whom conveniently
was in a Chicago office for another week.

So what did I do? I called 3 other times in a row, got 3 different people,
asked to speak to a supervisor. Each said I would have a call back within 24 -
48 business hours.

I did. They called.

I explained all about the paperwork and supervisor out of town and it was
literally all made up. All of it.

EDIT: My better side is resisting not calling out the guy who gave me the
hassle by posting his name and e-mail.

EDIT 2: I forgot to mention that the rep tried to tell me that the "Terms Of
Service" I signed the contract with wasn't valid anymore because it was to
old. I asked well I didn't get any new paperwork to agree to the new Terms Of
Service. His reply was that paying my bill every month was agreement enough, I
didn't need to be told about changes. Doesn't make any sense.

~~~
delbel
One way to guarantee a reason to get a supervisor is to state "Because of the
security nature of this call I am unable to reveal that information."

~~~
jason_slack
That is an interesting idea!

------
teekert
Here in the Netherlands the situation got significantly better after a famous
comedian (Youp van 't Hek) went completely public with the misery that ensued
after calling t-mobile to get a problem fixed with his sons iPhone.
([http://www.nrcnext.nl/blog/2010/10/25/youp-vant-hek-
brengt-t...](http://www.nrcnext.nl/blog/2010/10/25/youp-vant-hek-brengt-t-
mobile-imagoschade-toe/))

T-mobile found themselves suddenly completely on the defensive in various TV-
shows. They apologized profusely. It was very funny, things really got better.

~~~
Nelkins
Is there an English translation of this floating around somewhere? I'm curious
to know the specifics of the exchange.

~~~
teekert
I can't find it if there is any. I'd Google "Youp van 't hek tmobile" and use
Google translate, sorry.

------
bshimmin
I'm amazed at how calm he remains during this. I would've called the guy -
regardless of whether he's "just doing his job" \- every name under the sun
and probably threatened to pay him a visit in person...

That said, I guess if I were recording it to share on the Internet later, I
might've been able to control myself slightly more than usual.

~~~
duiker101
This guys have it rough. I used to call them a lot and I can't recall a single
instance where I saw someone raising their voice had a better outcome. The
only had a more stressful call.

The operator pushes it a lot but consider this: he is probably paid like shit
and he probably get commission on how many customers he can retain. Maybe if
he loses too many he can even lose his job. Knowing this and knowing that
their job is extremely horrible(getting called names all day) what I see here
is not the operator's fault at all. I see a person crushed by a job that he
might be losing taking the blame for problems that he didn't cause(maybe in
this instance but they often do). The only thing I have for someone like this
is a kind word instead of rage. If you are unsatisfied at the end of the call,
send a complaint letter about the service, do not take it on the operator.

(Obviously there are exceptions where the operators are just assholes)

~~~
tfinniga
That is a bit like worrying about the innocents working on the deathstar.

They know what kind of job it is. They do it anyway.

~~~
zorpner
Very few people have the job flexibility that many of us here on HN have. This
may be the best-paying job available to this person, or the only job they were
able to get that they can effectively travel to -- regardless, given the
unpleasant nature of the work, it's unreasonable to assume that they
meaningfully "chose" the job without additional evidence.

------
gst
I've heard multiple times now that it's hard to cancel contracts at various
providers, but I don't really see how this is an issue.

If the official way (according to the contract) to cancel a contract is a
phone call, what difference does it make if the remote party accepts this
cancellation? Just state that you are cancelling the contract, make sure to
get a recording (if legal in your jurisdiction) and chargeback all
unauthorized future credit card charges.

~~~
fpgeek
And then they'll eventually send your account to collections, where it will be
an even bigger pain to straighten out.

Something similar happened to me with AT&T (now Comcast, I believe) in
Chicago. I was moving away so I canceled service, returned my equipment in
person and even got a receipt! But someone forgot to log something somewhere,
so they kept sending me bills. For months, I kept calling and (foolishly)
believed them when they said it would be straightened out soon... until they
threatened to send my account to collections.

In the end, it took a letter to the office of the CEO with the whole story and
a copy of my receipt to fix things (and if it hadn't I'd already started
researching my legal options).

~~~
mst
The last time that happened to me, collections took one look at the notes on
the account, apologised, informed me that his manager was now writing an
extremely annoyed email to billing, and had it fixed before I was off the
phone.

Collections tend to be more likely to play hardball, but they often also tend
to contain smarter humans. Sometimes this helps.

~~~
Riseed
I did this once, and was impressed with how intelligent, friendly, and helpful
the collections agency was.

Unfortunately, billing responded to the collections agency by yanking the debt
back from that collections agency and referring it to another, meaning I had
to start all over again. I don't know if that's against the rules, but it
didn't seem fair and certainly wasn't nice.

------
tedchs
The only thing you say at this point is "I request you to close my account
effective immediately. Is my account closed yet?". Anything else you say (e.g.
"You're the reason I'm leaving" or even "I'm moving to Mars") will be used as
conversational leverage against you.

Other than that, have fun with it. I got a manipulative rep when I canceled
Sirius and told her I already threw away the radio when she tried to extend
the contract. She was not prepared for that. :)

------
jrockway
Step one: write letter saying you want to cancel your service.

Step two: send the letter via certified mail to the company whose service
you're cancelling, cc'd to your state attorney general's office.

Step three: there is no step 3.

~~~
grecy
How does one cc a letter?

~~~
dragonwriter
cc stands for "carbon copy", which was a mechanism for hard copy letters.

~~~
grecy
I thought the point of "cc" on an email was to prove you've sent something to
someone.

How can you achieve the same with a letter?

I can obviously just write the same letter twice and send it to two different
places, but neither will know the other was also sent the same thing.

~~~
dragonwriter
> I thought the point of "cc" on an email was to prove you've sent something
> to someone.

It doesn't _prove_ anything, but it does provide notice.

> How can you achieve the same with a letter?

On a letter, you can acheive the same thing that cc: <email address> does on
an email by putting cc: <recipient name> on the bottom of the letter, after
the signature line, and then making identical copies of the letter and setting
to both the addressee and the other recipient named in the cc: notation.

Which is the practice that inspired the use in email.

~~~
daigoba66
This is a fascinating thread. I wonder if formal letter writing is still
taught in grade school?

------
KerrickStaley
I couldn't cancel my Comcast service via phone because the automatic system
hung up on me (I tried again the next day).

I just stopped paying (removed my credit card from the system), and after
calling me multiple times about the outstanding charges, they eventually
figured out that I wanted to cancel.

They still tried to bill me for the time between when I attempted to cancel
and when the service was actually disconnected, even though I explained I was
unwilling to pay this amount. Ultimately, they transferred the bill to a debt
collection agency, and unfortunately I failed to dispute within 30 days (was
traveling), so I ended up having to pay it.

------
VLM
Its a corrupt market. Their job is to lie to you, your job has to be to lie
right back.

"I'm moving to (insert name of city owned by competitor)"

~~~
8ig8
>"I'm moving to (insert name of city owned by competitor)"

Unfortunately, that's becoming harder and harder to do...

[http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comcast-
Time_Warner_Cable_mer...](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comcast-
Time_Warner_Cable_merger)

~~~
nodata
"I'm moving to Berlin"

------
SippinLean
Wow, reminds me of the guy trying to cancel his AOL account:
[http://consumerist.com/2006/06/13/the-best-thing-we-have-
eve...](http://consumerist.com/2006/06/13/the-best-thing-we-have-ever-posted-
reader-tries-to-cancel-aol/)

~~~
ben1040
Yeah, the first thing I thought was "AOL employee gets the AOL treatment."

------
kstenerud
I only had a little bit of difficulty canceling my comcast service. After I
figured out what the customer service guy was doing, it went a little like
this:

\- I don't owe you an explanation.

\- I'm in a hurry. Cancel my service now.

\- I have your name. I will call back to complain about you.

\- If another bill comes, I will not pay. If you send a collection agency and
it affects my credit rating, I'll take you to court.

\- You have 30 seconds to comply.

~~~
kabdib
At some companies, reps are trained to trigger on phrases like "talk to my
lawyer", "i'll see you in court" and "i'm going to sue you" and transfer you
IMMEDIATELY to a legal department.

I learned this the hard way with a car moving company; from that point on, my
account was tagged with a "transfer to legal" and I couldn't even talk to a
rep.

YMMV, but mentioning legal action is one way to get yourself into limbo.

------
pestaa
I'm only halfway through but this is driving me crazy. I'm actually feeling
extremely furious.

This is why I hate to pick up the phone to talk to companies and instead want
automated systems where I can fill out forms and get my job done under 3
minutes, no questions asked.

------
rcthompson
This reminds me of that study a few months ago about how customer satisfaction
has no correlation or possibly a slight negative with profitability. I guess I
see why now.

One example link to a new story covering the result:
[http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-12-17/proof-
that-i...](http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-12-17/proof-that-it-pays-
to-be-americas-most-hated-companies)

------
pistle
Aaaaah! Get meta!!! We can all appreciate the value of having this recording
be available as a learning opportunity for consumers.

If you have the sense to know you are being strung along, become the
questioner and outflank the rep every time.

Them: "I'm just trying to understand..." You: "I find Comcast's customer
service to be poor. Let's see if you can help with that. Can you tell me if
you are empowered to quickly cancel my service without probing any further?"
Them: _doesn 't matter_ if they do anything but answer your question You if
"yes": "Let's cancel and ask no more questions then." You if anything else: "I
need to talk to someone who is able to execute my request. I'd like to talk to
your supervisor."

You will be put on hold and forced to wait.

You do not ratchet down the intensity of your demands unless you know that
your request is in motion. You mostly continue to treat the call as being with
one entity (it is). If the next person makes any inquiries/reasons, etc.

You: "I am not answering any further questions. I am cancelling the service.
Are YOU empowered to execute this process without further probing?"

Leave them only with yes/no answers directly related to them executing the
action you want. Any words you provide other than repetition of the action or
requests to escalate will be used against you.

If not, keep asking for supervisors. Poor level 1 is just doing their soul-
crushing job. Every middle manager is desperately trying to not do that any
more.

Until they have so many people trying to jump over level 1 will you ever need
to waste time in level 2. I've only once had to go to level 3.

Does Comcast hire from the list of people with restraining orders on them?
Sounds like some guy trying to not get dumped.

~~~
gammadistribut
Is your goal to sound like a robot?

~~~
pistle
I am cancelling your response service. Are you empowered to do this? Can I
speak to your supervisor?

The goal is to cancel/get service/refund/etc with as little wasted time and
energy as possible. They have scripts and procedures.

My strategy is equivalent to punching 0 to get to the human. in the phone tree
maze. Putting a human shield on the other end is not stopping me from
cancelling and they will not cry their tear ducts raw about my cancellation or
my intolerance for their bullshit. I'm not being abusive, just terse.

Corporate service reps don't reward style points.

------
dkrich
I thoroughly dislike Comcast and would go to great effort to avoid their
service.

That said, as funny as this is, this to me is more of a failing on a personal
level than by Comcast as a whole. He seems more angry at the caller because
he's losing the argument and not getting any concessions and just wants some
sort of response or willingness to hear what he's saying. I sincerely believe
that by the midpoint of that recording he was no longer interested in keeping
the customer, he just wanted to win a point in the argument to protect his
ego.

Interestingly, these are the _last_ people you want handling sales/customer
retention calls because they don't empathize with the customer or see the
situation from their point of view at all. They're more worried about their
appearance than the ultimate business goal, which is increasing sales.

I'm pretty certain that he would be reprimanded for this behavior.

~~~
VLM
"I'm pretty certain that he would be reprimanded for this behavior."

I could not disagree more.

That makes the huge assumption that the retention department is measured and
paid by metrics like "increasing sales". I am almost 100% certain that would
not be the case.

The longer you keep a quitting customer on the phone the less likely they are
to leave, the more likely they are to give up hope and keep paying. Awesome
job.

The company pays the retention rep to read arguments from a script to a
quitting customer, and the rep read all of them, awesome.

Lets say we get $150/month from this customer and it costs us $8/hr for this
customer's monthly hour long call to argue and lie to the customer. The
company is not seeing a financial problem here. At $5/day revenue even if all
the rep does is slow down the customer by one pro-rated day, as long as the
rep spends less than 30 minutes per call the company is still making a
"profit". More typically if you just lie to the customer and get on average
half a billing period out of them, thats an awesome profit.

You get what you measure and select for.

"because they don't empathize with the customer"

Why would a monopoly provider want to do that? It doesn't even make sense.
Like hiring a police chief based on how well he empathizes with the crooks, or
promoting a military officer based on how sympathetic he is to the other side,
or appointing a religious leader based on how strongly he believes in the
opposition's point of view.

~~~
dkrich
Believe me, I understand the "this makes good business sense on paper" angle.
To me it is very clear that this guy is not reading from a script. He is
clearly angered and frustrated on a personal level by the customer's
unwillingness to talk to him. The best example of this is probably at the end
of the call when he refuses to give a confirmation code. I'd bet a week's pay
that he had one to give, but was so angry that he just wanted to be
argumentative to score a point in the argument. It almost reminded me of
childhood fights I had with my brother when I was twelve.

 _Why would a monopoly provider want to do that?_

But Comcast isn't a monopoly in most major markets, and I'm guessing if this
guy worked as a tech blogger he probably lives in a market where he can choose
from Fios, Uverse, Comcast, etc. Increasingly people have more choice in which
service provider they use, and even in the markets where Comcast is a
monopoly, it is seldom good business to piss off your customers. There's a
difference between putting up barriers between somebody who is upset and is
threatening to cancel service and somebody who clearly has made the decision
to leave and wants the service to be disconnected, which clearly this guy was.

When I worked in a major telecom we used to review customer service calls and
I can tell you that this guy would not be applauded for that behavior.
Probably given a stern warning and possibly terminated. Telecoms may be
ruthless business people, but nobody is stupid enough to believe that this
kind of behavior is good business. The guy was frustrated and did his job
poorly. That's pretty much what this boils down to.

------
cloudwalking
I cancelled my Comcast on Friday. It was incredibly easy. I didn't have to
stay on hold, and they even offered to mail a postage-paid box for me to
return my modem.

I was pleasantly surprised.

------
SimeVidas
OMG is Comcast brainwashing their staff? This guy sounds like some Scientology
nut.

~~~
tinco
No, this guy works in the cancellations department, to which you are connected
when you indicate that you want to cancel your service. That means it is his
sole job to convince persons to not cancel the service. He also receives a
bonus for every phone call he makes that does not result in a cancellation.
For you it's 15 minutes of time wasted, for him it means 15 minutes of hard
work that came very close to paying off.

~~~
malka
I wonder how long I could manage to get that guy to stick on the phone... I
love being an asshole.

~~~
mikeash
There must be a business opportunity here. Connect people who hate dealing
with this stuff to people like you who love being an asshole. They get their
service canceled without dealing with crap on the phone, you get to play the
bad guy, everybody wins.

~~~
VLM
Its called being a lawyer. Its more about form letters sent via registered
mail and filing legal injunctions than talking on the phone.

A decade or so ago, I came within days of needing one merely to disconnect a
DSL line.

Once the cost of fighting the collections agency and the cost of the hit to
your credit record exceed the minimal cost of hiring the lawyer, its a pretty
obvious move.

Not kidding around at all, although its probably a better topic for a law blog
than HN.

The main problem they're likely to have is authentication. Helping people is
fun. Helping people who like having fun by disconnecting other people (-ex's,
etc) is a problem and you need to authenticate them cheaply.

------
bigB
Im in Australia, and have been with about 12 ISP's over the years and have
never had this sort of problem. Not that our Telcos are without problems, they
are often horrible to deal with when requiring support. One thing we have
which may be a deterrent for this behavior is the Telecommunication Ombudsman
(TIO) which is basically a government watchdog for the Telcos. Every formal
complaint to the TIO results in a fee charged to the Telco even if they are
not at fault, and if they are proven to be at fault the cost is much greater.
I would think that Comcast would think twice about this sort of behavior if it
was going to result in a governmental fine in every case.

------
Sarkie
I had an issue like this with Three in the UK, everyone in the office who was
listening for 25 minutes of my lunch to the conversation.

-Hi, I'd like to cancel.

-Cool, we are upgrading your account so you don't need to. -Umm, just cancel it please.

-Today only, you get 5GB for free

-I don't care, I want to cancel.

-Why?

-Because I don't need your service anymore.

-But what about the free data!?

-I don't need you, I am moving country.

-What country and when? Do you want another month before you leave?

-I am leaving tomorrow.

-But what about the free 5gb?

-If I say yes to the free 5gb, then what happens?

-Well we can't make more than 1 change to your account in a day, so you can't cancel if you accept our upgrade.

-Then just cancel.

-Ok putting your through to the right department

 _line goes dead_

Next attempt, they take my number in case line goes dead, it does, they ring
back, after one ring, line goes dead.

Third attempt, they cancel it.

~~~
clockwerx
I begin to suspect going nuclear is the only option. "Hi, I'd like to cancel
my service" "But what about X?" "Ombudsman and or Lawyers. Cancel. You have
been instructed, the next time I say this will be in court/writing/etc".

~~~
kabdib
They'll just transfer you to legal. Worst case, they tag your account and do
this every time you call, and you're in limbo for months. Ugh.

~~~
chris_wot
That's not how it works. They won't transfer you to a lawyer: those are damned
expensive.

In Australia, if you threaten to go to an ombudsman, companies tend to listen.
Ombudsman cases are very expensive.

~~~
lilsunnybee
Legal department are not lawyers, and are also usually much much smaller in
size than customer support as a whole. Also legal departments are typically
fairly terrible at resolving disputes in a reasonable amount of time (before
months have passed). Even if your issue is simple or a misunderstanding, if
you get transferred to legal, it is no longer simple at that point.

------
wil421
I've cancelled Comcast a few times before when ATT had a better deal and it
was never this bad. They usually try to give me a better deal but sorry I've
made my decision thats why I am calling, if you gave me a better rate to begin
with I might not be leaving.

With Comcast you can usually just hang up and call again if you get an
employee with an attitude. This method works with tech support too, hang up
and try again if you get someone who just wants to keep reseting your router
or doesn't have any idea.

~~~
interpol_p
> With Comcast you can usually just hang up and call again if you get an
> employee with an attitude.

I'm guessing that this tactic might actually make the nice employees look bad.
The employees with an attitude will have better customer retention metrics;
then the nice customer service reps risk losing their jobs or also developing
an attitude.

~~~
mikeash
Even if that's true, Comcast's bad metrics aren't our responsibility.

~~~
rcthompson
The point is that this tactic would be selecting against the nice reps in the
long run. Of course, I can't think of any other tactic that wouldn't do so.

~~~
mikeash
Understood, but my point is that it is _their_ responsibility to select for
nice reps, not ours. If their metrics combined with the natural customer
reaction selects for bad reps, that's their fault and their problem.

------
fardoche
Cue Comcast statement to the effect of "This behavior is not company-approved,
and the service representative will be reprimanded" in 3, 2, 1...

------
morganvachon
I've had Comcast service more than once, and I'm with them now. In the past, I
left them for AT&T DSL because the price/speed ratio was sensible enough to
make it worth switching. When I called Comcast to cancel service, I didn't run
into anything like this. The rep did try to convince me to stay, but after I
explained that I didn't need 12Mbps (the max Comcast offered at that time in
my area) they capitulated and canceled the service. It was maybe a three
minute conversation at most.

I ended up going back to Comcast a few years ago, when they advertised 25Mbps
for the price I was paying for 6Mbps on DSL, so it made sense to go back. Now
I wonder, if I were to try to cancel today, would I get the same hassle as
this guy? I'm betting so; they are probably trying to retain as many customers
as possible leading up to the upcoming merger.

------
martingordon
I just cancelled my Time Warner Internet a few minutes ago (switched to FiOS).
The call took all of 8 minutes and the rep didn't put up a fight at all. I
joked that it might actually be worth continuing to pay $50/month to avoid the
hassle of canceling, so this left me pleasantly surprised.

~~~
danielweber
Once I moved and realized I forgot to turn off my phone and DSL. The company
did it in minutes over the cell phone. I was surprised, and a little worried,
by how easy it was.

~~~
lilsunnybee
Cancellation isn't always a nightmare, even for companies with bad practices.
But it's luck of the draw, and your luck can run out at any time, at least
while government continues to stall on adequate consumer protections.

------
97s
I went through a situation similar to this with Dell about 8 years ago. The
guy told me he had no supervisor and that I had to deal with him. I promptly
recorded the call, called back and left a message of the call. The same fellow
then called me back and said I was rude and let me speak to his supervisor.
There is no way I would have spent this amount of time with this person. I
would have gotten his name or recorded him refusing to give it to me and
called back and promptly went straight to a supervisor and got this issue
solved. Companies that have this kind of policy and are ok with these types of
employees talking to customers like this quickly loose all their customers to
competition as soon as their competition catches up in technology.

~~~
adamc
Comcast is a monopoly in many markets so you are limited in how you might give
your business to other providers.

------
mindcrime
Now I almost want to call Comcast and try to cancel service, _even though I
don 't have any Comcast service_.

Better yet, somebody should write a bot using voice recognition, TTS, and a
state-machine, and have it call and mess with these people.

------
ascotan
Comcast/Xfinity is the most dishonest company that i've ever been a customer
with.

We signed up during a promotional deal and when the deal ended I got a bill
for 2x+ what i normally pay. I called customer service and they explained that
the roll-over from the promotional service into the new service was billed at
the start of the month and the last bill from the promotion was at the end of
the month. The net effect was a double billing.

When we called comcast to disconnect we got the same run around as to why we
are disconnecting. It wasn't nearly as bad as this call however.

Honestly, the worst company ever. I will never do business with them again.

------
dminor
Those of us who are sticking with Comcast also have the pleasure of going
through this script once a year, just to get Comcast's best pricing. Of
course, we get to shortcut out of it by agreeing to stay.

------
DanBlake
Does anyone who works in Comcast know what the incentive is for keeping
someone from disconnecting?

Maybe there is a bonus involved for the employee with the least amount of
disconnections per phone calls received?

~~~
Nursie
If you're so obnoxious that they go away, they might not call back to cancel
again for a few days, and maybe that means you can charge them for an extra
month. Or maybe they just give up all together.

Customer retention strategy for assholes basically :)

~~~
rcthompson
That's the incentive for the company. The incentive for the rep, presumably,
is that they get paid a commission based on how many cancellations they
prevent.

------
rdl
Can you just send a certified or registered letter demanding that service be
terminated, with correct authentication information, and then skip this
process?

Maybe on a law firm's letterhead?

(OTOH, I love fucking with these people on the phone. "Why are you canceling
service?" "Because God told me the Internet is evil; Because I decided
meth|guns|tinfoil|etc. would be better use of my money; Because a court
demands I not have contact with the Internet for the next 3 years as a term of
my release.")

------
borplk
Is the Comcast guy going to get a fabulous raise because of his efforts?

I just can't imagine how a regular employee would be this pushy if there's
minimal personal gains in it for him.

~~~
stonemetal
More like continued employment. Why have a customer retention agent on the
payroll if they retain few or no customers?

------
daphneokeefe
I thought it was really weird last week when I called to cancel my Comcast
internet service and it was so easy! I only have internet, no TV or phone, and
when the "teaser" rate expired, they wanted $85 per month. No way, ppl. I have
plenty of alternatives in SF, fortunately.

They only made one feeble attempt to offer me a better rate. They even sent me
a shipping box to return their router in, for free.

I was really confused by this experience, but maybe this explains it.

------
sergiotapia
I feel like taking a shower after listening to this call. Is this what it's
like most of the time in the US when dealing with service representatives?

~~~
shiftpgdn
Yes.

~~~
mikeash
No. 99.9% of the time, the people you get on the phone are courteous and
helpful. Comcast is notorious for poor service precisely because it is _not_
the norm. Sanity check: if this happened to everybody all the time, why would
it be making the rounds on the internet? Anything that is newsworthy is rare
by definition.

~~~
ascotan
Although Comcast is notorious for having terrible customer service, this is
NOT the only fee-for-service business that deals with disconnects like this
that I have dealt with.

It seems to be a trend now to harangue customers when they want to terminate
service contracts.

I wouldn't be surprised if certain companies pay retention bonuses if they can
keep a 'disconnect call' from actually disconnecting.

~~~
mikeash
Attempting to retain departing customers is fairly standard. Hassling them to
anywhere near this extent is not.

------
cmdrfred
I want to sign up for Comcast just to cancel now.

~~~
dm2
"Am I being Punked?" Haha.

------
eyeareque
I called and cancelled my service with them this morning. The Comcast rep
started to ask why, but I simply said I want to cancel my service. She said,
"OK, we are sad to see you go, I'll begin work on doing the disconnection
now..."

It was pretty painless. I guess it all depends on who you get on the other
side of the phone.

------
wbracken
Had the exact same experience with Clear.com (which I think has since been
acquired) a few years back:

[http://www.bird-dog.co/blog/2012/11/05/clear-com-makes-it-
im...](http://www.bird-dog.co/blog/2012/11/05/clear-com-makes-it-impossible-
to-cancel-your-account)

------
rakeshagrawal
I had an experience similar to this last week. And I was trying to cancel my
business account SO I COULD OPEN ANOTHER ACCOUNT TO REPLACE IT. Comcast is so
bad at service provisioning and customer service, I'm thinking that it's
actually their superpower.

------
higherpurpose
He should've said he wanted to go to Google Fiber. I know that makes Comcast
furious.

------
gk1
I'm moving in two weeks into a building where Comcast is the only option for
internet.

... Yikes.

------
Shivetya
for all the evils people dump on Comcast they are far far better than any home
security company I have dealt with or heard of from others.

Comcast at least in the metro Atlanta area has been really easy to deal with.
When I cancelled phone service I simply told them I was going cell only. When
I wanted to use my own modem their tech helped me setup mine and told me where
to return theirs. When I returned their modem to the local service center all
I got was smiles.

So yeah I am pretty sure you can get miserable or similar service from them
but I have always found going in with good attitude makes the process dead
simple and swift.

------
eldude
This is hilarious. Sadly, this employee probably got a promotion internally
for being absurdly fantastic at his job. It sounds like a South Park episode,
"Ohhhh, that's too baaaaaaaaaahhhhd."

------
jrodl3r
So damn fun fighting w/ media mercenaries to cancel/get out of
service/contracts - add these dummies to the "Ass-Clown Bin" w/ Airliners,
Politicians, Anti-Vacciners, etc.

------
namin
How I cancelled my phone plan in <1 minute. Me: I would like to cancel my
plan. Rep: Why? Me: I am leaving the country. Rep: Congratulations! Your plan
is cancelled. Best wishes. Me: Thank you!

------
cameraman
Three words to follow up with: Class Action Lawsuit
[http://www.millslawfirm.com/classaction.html](http://www.millslawfirm.com/classaction.html)

------
ErikRogneby
I wonder if you stalled and wasted time and waffled back and forth like a
window shopper if at some point they have to drop you or take a hit to their
call performance metrics?

------
malkia
An "automated" service that talks for you:

"I want to cancel my service!" "I want to cancel my service!" "I want to
cancel my service!"

------
eliteraspberrie
This is common in Canada too. I've learned to cancel services in writing, by
fax and registered mail. You save yourself a big headache.

~~~
lstamour
Some companies now have online chat services. I've learned the hard way to
prefer those and send myself a copy of the chat by email. You can even
escalate to a manager using chat now. Specifically referring to Rogers,
there's also an Office of the President (which can be hit or miss but will at
least answer your question, with a vague or otherwise reply), an ombudsman for
Rogers (sometimes helps, sometimes not).

Ultimately the organization that seems to help the most, if you know it
exists, is the Commissioner for Complaints for Telecommunications Services
Inc. (CCTS), "an independent organization dedicated to working with consumers
and service providers to resolve complaints about telephone and internet
services."

"The CCTS handles complaints about most telecommunications services provided
to individuals and small businesses, including home phone, wireless, Internet,
and Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) services."

More at:
[http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/info_sht/t1049.htm](http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/info_sht/t1049.htm)

Interestingly enough, the CCTS as an industry group is paid based on the # of
complaints. So carriers both have an incentive to create better support
mechanisms and to never hint that the organization exists. But once you know
... it's a fourth option after the first three tries at contacting a telco.

And this is why we can still survive in Canada with a company that provides
what seems like a third of Canada with cable TV, internet, wireless service
and home phone ... but hey, at least we don't have to buy all that from Ma
Bell like we used to! (If you want to see what AT&T would look like if it
weren't split up, just look at the molasses that is Bell Canada...
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Canada](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Canada)
)

------
ArtDev
Too funny.. "your doing an incredibly good job of making your company seem
worse".

I have been through this with Comcast.

------
hallett
This exact same thing happened to me with comcast. So glad this is getting
publicity omg

------
zabraxias
I am not proud of this but I "canceled" my Comcast service by moving to
another country. The only step required was to remove the auto-withdrawal on
their website.

They probably tried to contact me and threatened to kill my service for no
payments etc but that's a mail problem for the next resident to deal with.

------
aerovistae
Almost seems like you're talking to a robot, don't you think?

------
nodata
Do both parties have to agree to a cancellation? Does anyone know?

------
oldmanjay
the only correct response to any sort of intrusive question by a customer
service representative is "thank you for your time. transfer me to your
supervisor"

~~~
ceejayoz
"I don't have a supervisor" is a surprisingly common response.

~~~
67726e
So call their bluff. Unless you're dealing with the support for some
small/fly-by-night company, phone support is going to have someone overseeing
them. If they absolutely refuse to connect you, hang up and get a new agent
and ask to speak to the supervisor from there. Make sure to provide the
supervisor with the calling agents details.

~~~
coder23
All of them have a supervisor or superiors of some sort. But in some companies
they do not touch the phone, they overseer the process. I can tell you from
personal experience that if the customer support doesn't solve the problem
then there isn't a next "level" of support called the supervisor, but only
more formal options to communicate remain; think complaint department, mail,
lawyers.

------
wfjackson
Can't he do a chargeback on his credit card for the bill and then send the
credit card folks a recording of this?

Gyms are typically known for making it extremely hard to cancel, like
requiring you to snail mail a notice and even then acting as if they never got
it.

~~~
personZ
Chargebacks are no different than simply ceasing to send in payments for a
service: It sounds pat, but can haunt you years later when massive penalties
and interest appear on your credit report.

~~~
chatmasta
Source please? Every time I've filed a chargeback on my credit card (American
Express), they have been completely transparent with the status of it. When I
submit the chargeback, I'm credited the amount of it. If I lose it, I also
lose that credit, and I owe the amount of the chargeback.

Are you saying that _comcast_ will negatively affect your credit score because
you submit a chargeback to them after they failed to cancel your service?

~~~
nathanm412
Yes, they'll send you to collections. The collections company will take their
word that the debt is valid and try to contact you. Until you pay them, they
will report the debt on your credit. If you manage to convince them the debt
is invalid, you will still have to separately convince all three credit
agencies to remove the listing. Comcast's large bureaucratic collections
department will just send you to a different collections agency until you pay
up. You can then get a lawyer to stop them, but comcast won't just back down.
They'll reply to the lawsuit until a judgement is given. This will cost
thousands of dollars to complete.

The other alternative is to play their game with their customer service and
get them to agree to properly cancel the service.

~~~
danielweber
Is it legal for a company to send your debt to multiple collection agencies?

~~~
nickodell
I think nathan meant that the three companies that track your credit score
need to be contacted individually.

------
multiplier
Proof that Comcast really _does_ care! I'm switching to Comcast.

------
dqmdm2
There's a reason he can guarantee competitors can't offer their
speed...Corruption.

------
kevando
Honestly, I would still take this conversation over a frustrating service call
with someone who doesn't understand what I'm saying.

------
lucaspiller
Any ideas why he actually wants to cancel? If it's for a lower price surely
Comcast would match that? I've done that with mobile operators here in the UK,
phoning up to switch to PAYG because of a new deal that comes up then the
"retentions" agent offering me the same deal on a contract for half the price.

Edit: My point is although it is none of their business why he wants to
cancel, it's probably less effort, and helps them out by saying "The customer
service is poor" than declining and arguing with the agent who is just trying
to do his job (and probably getting paid $10/hour).

~~~
sigkill
Firstly, Comcast has no business why he wants to cancel. He might want to
cancel because he landed a tails on a coin flip on a Tuesday, and it shouldn't
matter.

Secondly, with such strongly hostile customer service representatives the more
you speak that's more ammo you're giving them to argue without cancelling the
contract. If you say, 'customer service is poor' there's a high chance that
CSR going to pull up records saying that "You called us X times with Y and Z
complaints and we have responded to them within 48 hours. That's well within
our metrics" or some bs like that.

Talking to hostile CSRs is akin to talking to the cops - don't speak more than
you have to.

