
Google Destroys Rap Genius’ Search Result Rankings As Punishment For SEO Spam - acremades
http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/25/google-rap-genius/
======
znowi
_We are working with Google right now to resolve this. They’ve been really
great, helping us identify changes we need to make._

As if they don't know what they did. These guys are toxic. I'd ban them for a
year.

~~~
yeukhon
Give them the credit for trying to resolve a problem. Are you telling me if
you run a business you would never this kind of mistake?

It is a good idea to explain why they did it and what they were thinking,
instead of just say "damn I screwed up." I rather hear people explain to me
why they did it and they now think they screw up. It is part of resolution.

If you don't care about explanation (or excuse if you think that's the right
erm), well, fine.

~~~
ryanhuff
What company leadership allowed to happen shows a real disrespect for one of
the primary risks to the business. Without having the explanation that you
described, the two most likely explanations in my mind are either this was
standard practice all along (finally got caught), or somebody made one of
those epic fail business decisions. If its #1, I doubt we'll see a clear
explanation. If its #2, somebody may have to fall on the sword as the "poster
child" of bad business decisions.

------
moocowduckquack
_Now RapGenius.com doesn’t appear on the first page of results for a search of
“Rap Genius”_

Readjusting their rankings is one thing, but that is just google breaking
their own service. If people have typed "rap genius" into google, there is a
reasonable chance that they might want to get to the thing named "rap genius",
which is on page 5 in the search I just did.

And the thing is, that nearly all the rest of the results are not for rap
geniuses, which presumably would be another reason for searching the term, but
are just blogs and news sites reporting about the company Rap Genius.

edit -

Given that the public are fairly ambivalent about google and so are not likely
to take google's side too much in stuff like this, and if you can get your
rating fixed afterward by being nice, couldn't a public spat with google like
this actually be good publicity, compared to google not making that much of a
fuss and merely adjusting their rankings to adjust for the seo tactics used,
rather than acting punitively.

If I was looking at this as a marketing droid, all I would see is that google
have replaced the position my main site used to take, with loads of articles
about my company that then link to my site, which makes it look as though
loads of folk are interested in the company while Google are publicly burying
the link, which sparks people's curiousity.

Is not that I think gaming the ranking is particularly good business practice,
I just don't think this is particularly good tactics on google's part.

~~~
llamataboot
No, this is google enforcing a harsh penalty for one site to discourage other
people from trying to game search which basically makes us all suffer through
content farm links, etc.

~~~
HelloMcFly
I don't agree. I see the need for punishment of this kind of behavior, but
removing the site from a Google search that seems to specifically be looking
for that site is a bridge too far in my book.

~~~
llamataboot
It's pretty much the standard harsh google slapdown. Has happened to many
other sites. I imagine they'll get out of jail sooner rather than later. It's
meant as a punishment I think, not just a correction of the terms that they
ranked for unethically.

------
SethMurphy
Google isn't the only way to access the internet. All this complaining of not
being able to type "rap genius" in google to go to the site sounds real
juvenile, doesn't even rise to first world problem status. Try typing
rapgenius.com and using their search mechanism. These actions may stop some of
their growth, but should not be a hinderance to anyone complaining here.

~~~
walshemj
It wasn't brand search terms that they where monetizing - they where obviously
targeting general rap related terms by doing some very dark hat SEO

~~~
SethMurphy
Google goes after anything it considers abuse with a bit of punitive damage,
which seems fair to me. This is not a simple correction but punishment of past
abuse in order to deter future abuse. The correction will come after the links
are removed and their sentence is served.

------
loceng
They got greedy is all that happened. They were essentially at the top - but
wanted to take the whole pie for themselves, instead of perhaps naturally
getting there.

------
flexie
Still, the real story here is that almost all small businesses depend on the
mercy of one giant corporation. This Google monstrosity / police man should be
split up into smaller, competing search engines.

~~~
sliverstorm
Why do they depend on Google's mercy? What does Google provide them, that they
must have and cannot be had elsewhere?

To phrase differently and hint at what I am suggesting- if Google provides
something that companies cannot live without, _what did companies do before
there was Google_?

~~~
notdrunkatall
>what did companies do before there was Google?

They didn't.

~~~
sliverstorm
They advertised.

Smaller companies seem to be replacing the "advertising dept." with "our rank
on Google dept.", in which case it's not exactly Google's fault they are
dependent on Google, any more than when a Craigslist scraper is dependent on
Craigslist.

------
ColinWright
Main discussion is over here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6963365](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6963365)

Adding to the discussion here will probably just duplicate what's being said
over there.

------
minimaxir
NOTE: There is an update not in the original report, apparently RG is working
with Google to resolve the issue:

 _We are working with Google right now to resolve this. They’ve been really
great, helping us identify changes we need to make, even on Christmas. We’re
working on it as fast as we can, and expect to be back on Google very soon.

It sucks to be off Google for us and for the thousands of our community
members who have worked so hard to create what’s often the best search result.

We hope everyone who reads this will take a little time out from their
Christmas and head to Rap Genius and sign up so you can contribute your
knowledge on your favorite subjects – becoming a member of our community makes
the site way more fun. Merry Christmas_

~~~
itsprofitbaron
By working with Google they mean they're going to work with them to identify
the links they need to clean up, try and get those links "cleaned up"
themselves, submit a disavow file and then get them to reconsider the site as
outlined here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6963785](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6963785)

It happens all the time and no disrespect to RapGenius, to companies much
bigger than them.

~~~
walshemj
And for far less reason.

------
sixQuarks
my first instinct is to hate these guys, probably because I feel they are just
doing an act. But going beyond my initial kneejerk reaction, I do have to
admit they are doing something different (as far as their "act" goes). Game
changers almost never go with the flow, so whether you hate them or love them,
at least they're not following the crowds.

------
tzs
I occasionally search for lyrics. If I know the name of the artist and song, I
search for those with the word lyrics added. If I have a line from the song
I'll type that and add lyrics.

I don't think I've ever noticed a Rap Genius result. To check this, I just
searched for a few lyrics on Bing (where presumably Rap Genius is not
penalized), and did not get any Rap Genius results. I even tried some Justin
Bieber lyrics searches because I believe the links that got Rap Genius in
trouble had to do with Bieber songs. Nothing on Bing.

Could someone give some examples of searches that used to include Rap Genius
high in the results?

------
dimitar
I laughed out loud when I realized this (I was searching for Tyler, the
Creator lyrics) - instead of filing a page with their links, now they are
nowhere to be found. Checked my watch and it was still December'13 so
something is wrong.

The annotations have really degraded in quality - there used to be some very
good ones that gave you context and explained complex puns and references and
now you have 9gag style memes.

The RapGenius story and characters become more and more fit for a movie making
fun of the whole internet industry.

------
coin
Article content is interesting. But -1 for disabling pinchzoom, as it severely
impacts usability on mobile devices.

------
benguild
It's probably a temporary ban that will last up to 90 days once appealed.

~~~
cabbeer
30 days.

~~~
bhartzer
Here generally is not a timeframe involved in this. Is google penalized them
then they received a manual penalty for unnatural links. They will have to
identify all the links that are unnatural, contact all those site owners and
try to take get the links taken down. Or disavow them and show a huge effort
was made... And tell google that they won't do it again through a
reconsideration request. Unless google makes an exception, it is taking at
least five days or more for google to respond to RRs. And even then, once a
penalty is lifted, the site won't necessarily come back quickly.

------
fiatjaf
RapGenius is not that good. It's heavy. AZ Lyrics has many ads, but it's pure
text. Good for lyrics. I don't really want comments in the lyrics I search
for.

------
knodi
I just watch the video in the article and I have to say are the founders
really like this in real life or is it all an act?

------
Shorel
Is there any hope for less softonic results now?

------
ihatehandles
Rules are rules, but do they deserve a pardon?

~~~
octatone2
No.

~~~
ihatehandles
Yeah I guess you're right. Rap Genius' well-known brand aside, if they treat
them differently to how they would penalize an unknown tiny site then that's a
can of worms they won't be able to rid themselves of.

------
benched
So, the _best lyric site by a mile_ no longer shows up in ordinary Google
lyric searches. As a music fanatic, searching lyrics is something I do all day
long every day, by the way - and when I search lyrics in Google, I really
_want_ to go to rap genius. Anyway, supposedly this degradation of Google
_had_ to happen to make a public example, and most of us are ok with it
because the founders of RG are known to be kind of jerky and unprofessional,
and we loves professionalism cause the more we love it, the more it makes us
look professional.

Just checking I'm still on the right planet. Yup, I definitely am.

~~~
mbel
> and when I search lyrics in Google, I really want to go to rap genius.

So, isn't it easier (and faster) to go directly to rapgenius or create custom
search keyword in the browser, than ask google for the lyrics?

~~~
badman_ting
Their search engine isn't very good, as is the case with most sites. There's a
reason why everyone uses Google to find things.

~~~
mbel
Actually, I've had a chance to use it quite a few times, and I was
surprisingly happy with the results. Still I might have not tested all
possible scenarios (like searching for a song knowing only a part of the
lyrics with some errors), so your point obviously stands, thank for pointing
this out.

~~~
badman_ting
It's not good at matching partial words, and sometimes a song's title only
contains very common words, etc. It doesn't deal well with those

------
csomar
Google is actually penalizing its users' as they'll have less useful results
instead of the best possible results.

Google is not supposed to be the Internet police. It's supposed to analyze the
best sites, and rank them. Rap Genius getting some spammy links doesn't make
it a better site; but it doesn't make it worse either.

The next thing we are going to see is a Google Justice Department?

~~~
dragonwriter
Taking action which poses a stron disincentive to the kind of black hat SEO
campaign RG was runnin benefits Google's users—tolerating such an action
(especially as widely piblicized as RG's campaign had become) would have hurt
Google's users far more than penalizing RG ever could.

