
Bose's Awesome 'Magic Carpet' Suspension Is Making Production at Last - MBCook
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/boses-awesome-magic-carpet-suspension-is-making-production-at-last/
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KozmoNau7
They need to make it actually work first. The well-known demo video is all
staged, the suspension was specifically tuned before each demo, it wasn't
universally capable at all. There was probably a lot of manual control
involved as well.

Citroën's hydropneumatic system was always better, especially on the C6 and
3rd gen C5. It's a crying shame they're moving away from it.

~~~
adrianmonk
Somewhat surprisingly, according to their technology page
([http://www.clearmotion.com/technology](http://www.clearmotion.com/technology)),
they are doing some kind of cloud upload and learning thing:

> _Connected by a central gateway, it collects road data and stores it in the
> cloud to be analyzed and instantaneously retrieved._

...

> _Using a precise, millimeter level HD map of the road surface ahead,
> advanced control theory algorithms continually adjust suspension parameters
> to enable the best ride possible. An additional layer of reinforcement
> learning algorithms continually learns the road’s profile, and your ride
> improves over time._

So, it's just a guess, but perhaps they've overcome the need to specifically
tune it by having it learn and share data.

~~~
PeterisP
This description suggests a plausible synergy with all the sensors designed
for self-driving cars.

With them, the suspension could "see" where exactly a bump or a pothole is
ahead, and adjust accordingly.

~~~
jsight
I vaguely recall seeing some self-driving car presentations that have
mentioned exactly this possibility.

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repsilat
One of the demos showed the car "staying level" as it swerved aggressively. I
wonder -- might it be reasonable to have it overcompensate? If a car could
"lean into" a curve like a motorbike, it could help driver comfort by turning
some horizontal acceleration into (passenger-pose relative) vertical
acceleration.

Not sure about safety/grip implications.

~~~
Gibbon1
There was an attempt by British rail to develop a rail car that would lean
into corners. How the car leans in a turn has a big effect on ride comfort.

How a car leans and how the suspension responds has a big effect on how the
tires contact the road which has a large influence on how sure footed the car
feels.

Historically there are trade offs between ride vs handling vs cost and
'branding'.

What interesting to me about electro-mechanical systems is the ability use
highly non linear control algorithms to improve the ride and handling. There
are some potential benefits beyond just ride comfort, reduction of road
wear[1] and anti-washboard control on unimproved roads.

[1] Think of cars and trucks hammering a weak spot like a crack in a road
surface.

~~~
andrepd
It's called a tilting train:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilting_train](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilting_train)

~~~
dgudkov
Also Pendolino:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendolino](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendolino)

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jasperry
Would this tech render speed bumps useless as a safety feature, by removing
all the unpleasantness of driving over one?

~~~
DmenshunlAnlsis
Yes, although I suppose it would be possible to build in some kind of
exception to require it _not_ to respond to them? Maybe you could even have
“smart bumps” that would just be some location data pushed to the cloud that
tells the suspension to “rumble” without the need for a real bump. Of course
that would only work with very widespread adoption of the suspension.

~~~
kalleboo
If you're going to require cars simulate speed bumps why wouldn't you just
enforce a digital speed limiter?

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DmenshunlAnlsis
Lobbying. I can’t think of another practical reason that isn’t primarily based
on fantasy. A digital speed limit could allow for a minute say, of exceeding
the limit for the sake of evasive maneuvers, passing, etc. lobbying and public
perception though, won’t allow it.

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maxxxxx
I thought there are already plenty of active suspension systems on the market
or is this different?

~~~
chiph
The Mercedes ABC (Active Body Control) system is good. But if you watch the
video - this one is amazing.

The Mercedes system used hydraulics. If the Bose system works the same way
their truck seat does (the "Bose Ride") then it's run by a combination of
pneumatic & electromagnets, and I'd be curious how they get enough current to
run it.

ABC:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clyUmA5lRcg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clyUmA5lRcg)

Bose suspension:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8sVDenpPOE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8sVDenpPOE)

Bose Ride:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_G9GCpWAcM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_G9GCpWAcM)

~~~
twelvechairs
Mercedes ABC is actually the same as Citroen's much earlier hydropneumatic
suspension. Its been around since WWII and in major production cars since at
least the 1950s (the great Citroen DS)

~~~
emmelaich
Is that similar to the Austin 1800 and Morris 1100 hydrolastic suspension?

 _" it floats on fluid!_

They were great cars to drive.

[http://www.elevenhundred.com/hydro.php](http://www.elevenhundred.com/hydro.php)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMC_ADO17](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMC_ADO17)

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randerson
What if you need to swerve _while_ going over a bumpy road? Steering won't do
much good if your wheels are in the air.

~~~
avhon1
A vehicle's suspension serves 2 purposes:

1\. to make the ride smoother and more comfortable

2\. to keep the wheels in contact with the ground to ensure consistent, safe
handling

This suspension is capable of lifting the wheels off the ground, but the
practical purpose of active suspension is to use a proper PID loop and sensor-
enabled anticipation in order to keep the wheels pinned on the ground while
minimizing body movement.

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basicplus2
Actually.. The BMC Hydrolastic suspension did the same job very effectively..
And no electronics and complex control systems to service and go wrong.

I had a BMC Morris Nomad 1300 and its handling was superb

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrolastic](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrolastic)

~~~
Taniwha
They were terrible to work on, you had to have the special magic tool to pump
it all back up again

~~~
TheForumTroll
Well, try working on a new car with no special tools!

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jlebrech
It looks like an unrealistic driving game.

~~~
adrianmonk
This may be one of those happy situations where changing requirements make a
bug fix much easier than before. Now maybe that driving game is realistic and
they can close the bug by just saying, oh yeah, these cars have active
suspensions.

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aviraldg
Is this the same Bose that (primarily) works on audio technology?

~~~
ralusek
If so, I wonder if their experience cancelling sounds waves is just similarly
applied to what is ultimately also a problem in counteracting input movement
with the inverse.

~~~
Fins
If it is the same Bose, it will _only_ ever work on special staged roads (viz.
Bose's insistence on only showing their products completely separately from
everything else, lest you realize that you can get significantly better sound
for 1/10th of the price).

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dsnuh
Is this basically maglev at the point where the body meets the chassis?

~~~
sitharus
No, it still has springs as I understand it. However the dampers are replaced
with some sort of linear actuator so the degree of damping and even the
position of the suspension can be controlled.

If there were no springs it'd bottom out when the car was switched off, you'd
still need a normal ride height when getting in to the car.

~~~
dsnuh
I was thinking super strong opposing magnets, with some sort of limiter
device.

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IronWolve
This is on my list of technologies I've been waiting to make commercial
availability. Just waiting for tech to catch up. First is the wasp x-jet
(flying pulpit) from the 1980s.

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jacquesm
Suspension is a solved problem since the 60's. The issue is one of economics
not of technology.

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rdlecler1
This kind of tech is going to be a critical pick and shovel for driverless
cars.

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moltar
Montréal needs this.

~~~
branchless
You beat me to it. But would they just allow the nid de poules to get bigger!

