
Ousted Founder of Men’s Wearhouse Watches His Old Company Struggle - pavornyoh
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/27/business/george-zimmer-former-face-of-mens-wearhouse-watches-his-old-company-struggle.html?ref=business&_r=0
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mschuster91
> It’s curious we’ve allowed capitalism to become all about shareholders.

For god's sake I hope this view becomes more prevalent.

Viewing economy only through shareholder's eyes leads to a focus on only
short-term gains - which might destroy the company in the future but who cares
when stock goes up 10% in a quarter?

Fuck this shit. The economy would fare a LOT better in my eyes if any investor
over a certain threshold (10k?) was forced to hold the stock in question for
12 months at a minimum, similar to the waiting periods startup founders/co-
owners have to endure before they're allowed to sell their stock.

Such a move would instantly kill off those greedy funds which make a company
go deep into debt, pay the money from these debts to the shareholders (i.e.
the fund(s)) and then go bankrupt.

edit: also, such a move would prevent people from investing in crapps like Yo,
which got at least $2.5M in funding...

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drjesusphd
This attitude is court-enforced. Shareholders have sued in the past and the
Supreme Court has ruled that that publicly traded companies exist to serve the
interest of shareholders.

~~~
tudorw
Yes, this legal situation brings about lots of unwelcome outcomes,
environmental and social impacts often have to be put aside by a 'caring'
company as the law dictates they must do whatever is legal and best serves the
interest of the shareholders. The UK has a relatively new entity that can
avoid this and still operate with most of the benefits of a regular limited
company, a 'Community Interest Company', the 'community purpose' is regulated.

[https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/office-of-the-
re...](https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/office-of-the-regulator-of-
community-interest-companies)

A slightly off-topic aside, but tangentially related... I find promise in the
'Economics of Happiness' and GNH work, it's an emerging term and field
attempting to measure human happiness in a consistent manner, this would allow
any proposed action to have a line item on the costings with a figure that is
derived from the amount of 'happiness' that would be created, or destroyed, as
a result.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_National_Happiness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_National_Happiness)

~~~
lostcolony
The US has B Corporations -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_corporation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_corporation)

Probably the most famous company running as a B corp at present would be
[http://www.bcorporation.net/community/ben-and-
jerrys](http://www.bcorporation.net/community/ben-and-jerrys)

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robertnealan
I coincidentally sat in on a pitch to Zimmer's new company zTailors about a
year ago over at their office in Oakland. Having visited numerous startups in
the Bay Area over the years, zTailors was one of the few that walking into
their office you instantly knew it was being run like a real business rather
than your typical VC funded runaway train.

Also, I almost walked straight into Zimmer on my way out — definitely as
impressive in person as in his commercials.

~~~
marincounty
When I was in graduate school, I had a minor nervous breakdown. Not related to
school, more about thinking too much about life, death, career, money, and I
had a weird pain in my head--that I thought must be a tumor. I always went to
the worst senerio?

In those horrid months, I had one dream repeatedly, and it was so American.

The dream was I was a chess piece on a large chess board. I think I was a
pawn? In the dream, George was yelling at me so vociferously, the air from his
lungs was blowing me off the chess board. I would try to grab on to the other
chess pieces, but the gail force was so strong, I would just slide on the
board. I knew if I was pushed off the board, I would just fall,and fall. When
I got to the absolute edge, I would wake up--sometimes--covered in sweat.

I have worn a suit, and tie one time since that period on my life. It was my
sisters wedding, I couldn't wait to get the tie off. It felt like a noose.

Not fun times, but I can look back and find some amusement in my pain. If
anyone reading this is going through bad times, I can guarantee it will get
better with time.

In reality, George Zimmerman looks like a decent guy to work for. I felt bad
when they let him go as the spokesperson.

~~~
neppo
George Zimmer, not Zimmerman

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c3534l
I'm not surprised that a company whose management was selected largely on the
basis of childhood friendship and whose members include Deepak Chopra, one of
the world's most cyncial charlatans (really? You didn't think he was motivated
by money? Do you even know who he is? His whole schtick is snake-oil sales) is
not doing well. I also have a hard time believing this was as abrupt as the
article claims.

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noobermin
My reading of the article didn't imply that it was soley on the basis of
friendship, but just that one of his members was a close friend.

EDIT: s/one/some/; s/a close friend/close friends/

~~~
pm90
>"His abrupt ouster came as a personal blow, especially since he counted some
of the directors among his closest friends"

~~~
HillRat
Not surprising since BoDs are drawn from surpassingly small and tightly-
intertwined groups -- though every market and market vertical tend to have
their own sets. Everybody knows everyone in those worlds....

~~~
pm90
The interesting question then really is: how exactly do you staff a Board of
Directors? Not a question that a lot of people struggle with, I'm sure. But
perhaps something that needs a better answer than "with the people I know and
trust".

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wyclif
I'd love to hear advice from any HNers in the know about the best way to buy
quality tailored menswear and get the most bang for your buck, particularly
suits. I know you're not going to get that at a chain, and there's a lot of
information about bespoke online, but I'd like to know what HN thinks about
it.

~~~
rcurry
I had to wear a suit every day at one of the Wall Street firms that I worked
for. The reality is that a "good" suit is going to be expensive - there is no
way around that. If you don't want to shell out for a bespoke suit, you can
also find very nice made-to-measure selections at upscale stores like Neiman
Marcus. Prices vary wildly, but you are going to be looking at a minimum of
around $2-3K for a decent suit. Also, if you're going to wear a suit for work
and not just once a year to a wedding or whatever, you need to remember that
you'll want two pairs of the slacks - you don't want to buy a $3K suit then
tear the slacks six months later and find out you can't get that particular
fabric anymore.

~~~
eitally
Not necessarily 2-3k. I just had a Hickey-Freeman MTM made via Nordstrom
during one of their sales and walked out the door just under $1300 (for a $2k
list suit).

But yes, listen to this guy when he says to buy two pairs of trousers.

~~~
zyxley
As somebody who's never worn a suit in my adult lifetime, even that $1300
figure feels like staring into some absurdist alternate universe.

~~~
sk5t
A suit is all about fit, and it's a lot of labor to make one fit properly.

Also, it is generally possible to charge more for products sold to folks who
gotta wear suits.

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p00b
“As soon as the tailor saw me he embraced me and started sobbing,” Mr. Zimmer
said. “I have a bond with tailors. It’s not because I’m a tailor myself but
because they know I care about how they experience their jobs.”

On a day like today, I am especially grateful for all the "Mr. Zimmer"s in the
world who respect the craft, even if they're not a craftsman themself. The
tech world needs more of this kind of guy.

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SliderUp
He hits the nail on the head with his differentiating shareholders from
stakeholders.

Shareholders are just investors.

Stakeholders include investors, employees, customers, and vendors. All of them
matter.

Like it or not, share price sideways to one of those groups only.

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jcroll
Would be interesting to know exactly why the board was so vehement about
ousting him.

~~~
mschuster91
> A year after Mr. Zimmer’s ouster, Men’s Wearhouse acquired Joseph A. Bank
> for about $1.8 billion — a merger Mr. Zimmer had vociferously opposed.

I guess that the board's personal coffers were filled with cash in order to
get rid of opposition. Funny how it turned out in the end.

~~~
TheOtherHobbes
The board will probably be okay.

Employees and customers won't be.

~~~
mschuster91
Well but the in(v/f)estment fund will have lost a load of cash. And like Mr.
Zimmer, I'm glad of this.

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kelukelugames
I remember he was pro pot and prostitution long before it was cool.

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PhoenixWright
I'm really glad that the merger between Men's Warehouse and Jos A Bank's
bombed. These were two great companies that constantly tried to one-up each
other. I feel that level of competition led to both companies doing well. Then
they got greedy and decided that competition wasn't easy and that collusion
through merger would be better. Now they've killed the goose that laid the
golden egg. Discount men's wear was Men's Warehouse and Jos A Bank's. I expect
to see new companies enter this market to fill the void.

Corporate governance is a huge problem in the market right now. Like others
have mentioned workers and stockholders will pay for the ineptness of this
board. Short term gain via activist investors is leading to crappy mergers,
stupid breakups, and what should be illegal inversions.

I actually believe this is another sign of a top in the market when you see
"investors" trying to squeeze the last bit of gains though these types of
schemes.

