
Mechanical Keyboard Guide - georgecmu
http://www.overclock.net/keyboards/491752-mechanical-keyboard-guide.html
======
jrockway
If you are new to mechanical keyboards, I recommend a Cherry Brown-based
keyboard. They have a great tactile feel that quickly trains you to recognize
that a key is typed without having to bottom out.

I prefer the Topre switches, but the tactile bump is very subtle and if you do
not consciously make the effort to not bottom out (initially), you will. And
then it's just a very very expensive rubber-dome keyboard.

(The reason you use mechanical keyboards is so that you don't have to bottom
out -- slam your fingers against an unyielding piece of plastic thousands of
times a day. If you don't realize that and treat your mechanical keyboard like
a $3 rubber-dome keyboard, then you are not going to get the comfort that they
are supposed to provide. Rubber dome keyboards are bad because the keys only
register when you bottom out, forcing you to hurt your hands in order to
produce any text.)

Also, if you've used a Model M and hated it, it's because it's bad. You have
to apply quite a bit of force to the keys (80g, compared to 35g on a
Realforce), and that can be painful. Model Ms make a really fucking cool sound
and are built like tanks, but they are otherwise not particularly special. I
used to use one, but after switching to a HHKB, I could not go back.

Finally, clicky keyboards are really cool, but the Cherry Browns ("tactile")
are a lot easier to type on than the Cherry Blues ("clicky"). I am not really
sure why, but the Browns feel "sandpapery" (try it and see) when they
register, but the Blues just make a loud noise. The rough feeling is much
easier to recognize while typing than the sound, IMHO.

If you can, try each type before buying, but if you can't, forget about clicky
and go for Brown. If you like the Cherry Brown-based keyboard but want
something higher quality and slightly more ergonomic, then make the step up to
the Realforce.

~~~
nodata
Where can you buy a Cherry Brown keyboard?

~~~
thristian
From another post in this thread, it seems <http://elitekeyboards.com/> has
"FILCO"-brand keyboards available with Cherry Brown key-switches.

------
aptsurdist
I'm confused. Why do all of these "elite" keyboards still have oversized dome
keys that wiggle around, have a lot of travel, and have big gaps in between
them. I'm sorry if this just makes me seem like a mac snob, but how could
these compare to a slim, minimal-movement keyboard like this one?
<http://www.apple.com/keyboard/> [edit: I am not normally an obnoxious snob
about keyboards, but considering the subject at hand is keyboard
connoisseurship, I have to admit my strong appreciation for the slim-key style
which didn't seem well represented in the discussion. (Not about mac vs. pc -
just about the key-style.)] Maybe I'm missing something as I've never even
heard the term "mechanical keyboard" before - some of the nuances might be
lost on me.. but I know what I like and I'm pretty sure I would never go back
to a large dome key keyboard like the ones shown. ...Oh wait, there is one
keyboard shown that has minimalist keys, but it's $2,400! This is ridiculous,
maybe I should go into the PC keyboard making business.

(Yes, I know that mac keyboards only work on the mac _, but if people care so
much about these things, then that's not really an excuse for leaving it out
of the discussion. Anyone else feel the same way about the slim-key keyboards
being so much better?)_ edit: correction -I guess they do work on PCs
<http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1095349>

~~~
artlogic
Mechanical keyboards may have lots of travel, but you don't have to use it
all. While a mechanical keyboard may have 4-6mm of travel and scissor switch
keyboards (like Apple's) only have 2mm, on a mechanical keyboard you don't
have to bottom out the keys. Topre switches activate around 2mm - the same as
your Apple keyboard. The difference being that your fingers aren't slamming
into a hard plastic stop after each activation (unless you choose to bottom
out your keys). Furthermore, well made domes don't tend to wiggle much more
than the keys on an Apple.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by big gaps - Apple's keyboard also has some
pretty sizable gaps between keys. Unless you have tiny fingers I think you'd
want those gaps.

More information here:
[http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=START+HERE+--+The+Gee...](http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=START+HERE+--+The+Geekhack+Mechanical+Keyboard+Guide+-+Includes+Glossary+and+Links)

~~~
aptsurdist
Cool, that's starting to make a little more sense. By gaps I don't just mean
the distance between keys, I mean that your fingers actually feel like they
get caught in the deep spaces as you slide over them. But maybe that only
pertains to the PC keyboards that I have experience with - the ones with with
wiggly keys.(Maybe none of them were mechanical keyboards.)

~~~
artlogic
Are you talking about sliding up from home row to the keys above (e.g. J to
U)? If so I believe I'm lifting my fingers up slightly (maybe 1mm) when moving
between keys. I'm not actually sure if that is good or bad for my typing
health, but it does keep me from getting caught in the gaps on an angled
keyboard.

~~~
aptsurdist
exactly - I think that lifting your fingers is the 'normal' way to type on a
traditional keyboard with raised keys. But, I love that when I type on my low-
profile keyboard I feel like my fingers are always in contact with the
keyboard and just kind of slide over the tops of the keys to hit their target.
On the occasion when I have to use a raised key keyboard, I have to re-
remember how to lift my fingers to type. It takes me a minute to adjust before
my fingers stop getting caught on all the key corners. Then again, it could
just be personal style - anyways, while I am a pretty fast typist, I wouldn't
say that I have the most pristine home row technique, so take my comments with
a grain of salt.

~~~
kellishaver
I have a macbook, and a PC with a model M keyboard, so I'm familiar with both
types and use both regularly. I hadn't noticed before reading this, but I do
tend to type similarly to you do on the low-profile macbook keyboard. It's
more "sliding" than lifting. I think the low profile necessitates it, because
otherwise it's just a lot of wasted movement through thin air and leads to
less accuracy.

This may also explain why I was extremely inaccurate when I first started
typing on the macbook (until I learned to adjust and type as you do), and why
I still find it to be not as comfortable to use as the model M. It is the best
laptop keyboard I've ever used, but I don't find that style of typing to be as
comfortable or natural.

I guess it's just personal preference, though. I learned on a model M back in
high school.

------
kellishaver
I have an old IBM Model M with the buckling spring switches and it's the
greatest thing in the world to type on. It's loud, but it feels so good. My
typing accuracy and speed have both improved greatly since I switched to it.

I dug it out of the back of a storage building a couple of summers ago. The
sticker on the bottom says it was made in 1986. It works flawlessly, and with
the help of an old tooth brush and a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser, it looks as good
as the day it was made.

~~~
listic
Why does typing accuracy improve? Is it because the keys have less wobble? I
figured that generic keyboards on the market differ greatly in wobble.

~~~
kellishaver
Less wobble and it requires more force, so fewer accidental key presses.
There's just so much more tactile feedback that it's easier to just "know"
where your fingers are at all times.

------
sliverstorm
Of course, realize that mechanical keyboards being made of higher quality
components has nothing to do with them being mechanical, and rather everything
to do with being a niche market. You can always expect to find high quality
materials in niche markets, because the consumers specifically seek out the
product and relatedly are willing to pay a little more.

------
thristian
I'd like to have a mechanical-switch keyboard someday; unfortunately most of
the ones I've seen (including the ones in this article) tend to be full-size
104-key keyboards, while my tastes tend toward smaller keyboards like the
Happy Hacker keyboard (which is excellent but uses rubber-dome switches).

Right at the moment I'm using a Lenovo Thinkpad USB keyboard because it's a
smallish keyboard with a built-in trackpoint device (one _less_ reason to ever
leave the home row). If it wasn't for the trackpoint, however, I'd be back on
the HHKB - I like the layout more and I seem to have less trouble finding the
arrow keys by feel.

Since they don't make HHKB keyboards any more, I suspect my next keyboard
might very well be an Apple USB mini-keyboard - it's got the layout I like,
it's small and light, and I suspect I could get used to the key-switches soon
enough...

~~~
dxq
The HHKB is very much still in production (mine just arrived last week),
though it can be hard to get one in the US. I ordered mine from
<http://elitekeyboards.com>.

My HHKB is replacing a 16 year-old Apple Extended Keyboard. It's definitely
not as click-clacky as a buckling spring keyboard, but it's much easier on my
wrists (and doesn't wake people up when I'm hacking at night).

~~~
thristian
Hmm... elitekeyboards.com only seems to have the HHKB Professional 2... the
one I have is a "HHKB Lite 2", which (in a strange inversion of the usual
hierarchy) includes an extra Fn key on the left and an inverted-T arrow-key
cluster.

I realise using arrow keys is heresy to a certain subset of the programming
community, but I've been using them for decades and it's hard to give them up.

~~~
dxq
The arrow keys are accessible with the function key. It seems awkward at
first, but after a day of use it becomes very natural.

If it's what you really want, the HHKB Lite 2 is actually sold in the US and
is quite a bit cheaper (though the switches aren't as nice).

~~~
Keyframe
Can you reprogram where arrow keys are? I have my arrow keys in emacs as Alt
and then IJKL (like WASD), so it would be nice if Fn IJKL worked the same in
OS.

~~~
jrockway
No, you can't reprogram them.

------
jedbrown
I have a somewhat strange requirement which seems to be rather rare in stand-
alone keyboard layouts (as opposed to laptops). I like to hit Alt_L and Alt_R
(which I remap to Control) with my thumbs because it makes Emacs chording far
more comfortable. This is very awkward with a long spacebar. The MS Natural
keyboards are good with key placement, in my opinion, but I prefer the lighter
activation of a notebook. I definitely like mechanical switches, but don't
want to change my chording technique to deal with a long spacebar. Any
recommendations?

~~~
jharsman
A Japanese keyboard layout
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#Japanese>) has a shorter
spacebar and some extra keys instead. You might be able to remap them to extra
modifier keys with suitable software.

The Kinesis Advantage (<http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/advantage.htm>) also has a
unique layout where you hit modifier buttons with your thumbs, and it uses
brown Cherry mechanical switches. It's $300 though.

~~~
jedbrown
Thanks for the Japanese layout tip. I've always thought the Kinesis looked
neat, but not enough to order one without trying it. I also worry about using
something that is so different that I forget how to type on a "normal"
keyboard, though I don't have much trouble switching between dvorak and qwerty
so my concern is likely unfounded.

~~~
jfb
I've been using a Kinesis for ten years, and while it took some time to get
comfortable with it, I've never lost my ability to touch type on a regular
flat keyboard; probably because I've had laptops around the whole time, and
have done plenty of coding on the sofa/train/&c.

------
vimalg2
TVS Electronics India makes a cheap, decent 'Cherry Blue'-based mechanical
called the 'TVS Gold' for around $30 (converted from INR).

I have one. I'm thinking of buying one for the day gig as well.

Pics:
[http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:7268&do=co...](http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:7268&do=comments)

~~~
jrockway
Interesting, as Cherry Blue keyswitches are about $1 each in bulk. If you have
103 keys, that puts a lower limit of $103 on the keyboard.

------
cosmicray
This is a picture of a hall-effect keyboard, made by Sperry-Univac circa 1973.
They were very reliable, and the most comfortable keyboard I've ever used
(punch cards tho, but wth).

<http://www.flickr.com/photos/kd1s/4448262833/>

~~~
jrockway
I think they also still use hall-effect keyboards on airplanes.
(Unfortunately, they use an "ABCDE..." layout!)

------
jawee
I have a rubber dome switch, which I always considered a step up from the
membrame keyboards. I didn't realize it was considered one and the same; my
Packard Bell keyboard feels almost as nice as some of the mechanical keyboards
I've used.

~~~
jrockway
Improper technique can make any mechanical keyboard feel like a rubber-dome
keyboard.

------
sokrates
Cherry Stream. The best $20 keyboard ever, hands down.

[http://www.citx.de/citx/shop/catalog/images/tas0086-cherry-s...](http://www.citx.de/citx/shop/catalog/images/tas0086-cherry-
stream-weiss.jpg)

------
paulsb
If you want to read some thorough reviews, guides and even hear some sounds,
you should check out geekhack: <http://geekhack.org/>

------
gnosis
The problem with a lot of these fancy and expensive keyboards is that they
have far too few keys.

For instance, the Realforce 87U ($255) has only 87 keys.

My current $24 keyboard has 136 keys. And I still wish I had more keys! Using
a keyboard with a mere 87 keys would be torture, no matter how pleasant the
tactile feedback was.

~~~
jrockway
Learn to press two keys at once. Now you have 3741 keys.

(And yes, all these expensive keyboards have n-key rollover, meaning that you
can press as many keys as you want and they will report exactly what you're
pressing. Cheap keyboards have a matrix that results in "phantom" keypresses
if you chord anything other than shift or control and a letter.)

------
mruniverse
Anyone know a SF Bay Area store with a good selection of mechanical keyboards?

------
Keyframe
Has anyone tried TypeMatrix 2030?

~~~
loup-vaillant
I'm using one right now. It's not "mechanical", it's scissor-switch. It's a
bit better than plain rubber dome, but you still have to bottom out.

The layout on the other hand, is really cool. I can now touch type without
twisting my fingers in weird ways. It's more comfortable (even more than a
Natural keyboard, actually), and a bit faster than ordinary slanted keyboards.

The displacement of some of the keys isn't a big deal. It takes some time to
get used to, but makes things a bit better in the long run.

~~~
Keyframe
I was interested in it's layout. Do you use QWERTY or other layout like
Colemak and Dvorak with it?

~~~
loup-vaillant
The layout of the keyboard doesn't really matter. The Typematrix can send the
regular key-codes like any ordinary ANSI keyboard, or it can mix them up so
that it acts as a Dvorak keyboard even if the OS is set up on Qwerty. But
really, the layout should be set by the OS, not by the keyboard.

Personally, I use Bépo: <http://bepo.fr> It's a Dvorak-like layout optimized
for French. It works well for English, though (far better than Qwerty,
anyway). If your native language isn't English and uses Latin letters, you may
want to look for a layout optimized for it.

~~~
Keyframe
Sorry, I mean staggered vs aligned layout - not actual character layout.

