
Attorney General Barr Refuses to Release 9/11 Documents to Victims' Families - AndrewBissell
https://www.propublica.org/article/attorney-general-barr-refuses-to-release-9-11-documents-to-families-of-the-victims
======
willart4food
> Barr says he cannot even explain why the material must stay secret without
> putting national security at risk.

~~~
lilott8
I apply a bit of hyperbole here, but I'm convinced that "national security" is
a monotonic function that will eventually encompass everything in the federal
government.

~~~
rdtsc
And a large part of it to cover up embarrassing details.

I think it was in the discussions related to one of the embassy cables that I
found this concept of 3rd order facts that leads to things being classified.
It goes something like this. Say US is supporting some brutal dictator
somewhere. The fact that he is evil is the main fact (1st order). People in
that country and all over the world know it. That's the 2nd order. However the
knowledge that the US govt knows (3rd) order is classified. The reasoning is
because then the US govt might have to explain its inaction in regard to all
the brutalities inflicting by that ruler.

~~~
baybal2
> And a large part of it to cover up embarrassing details.

Yes, but it is more than that. Way more.

Chinese ask me why in the world did Americans threw themselves on Saudis when
they attacked them.

Chinese don't understand that. They cannot comprehend it at all. It breaks
their mind. Chinese there think there must be some completely bizarre,
terrible secret that is the reason for that.

I give them one popular explanation:

Imagine, some serious guy in the suit comes to completely shocked people after
9.11 and tells there is a "completely bizarre, terrible secret" behind this
mess, and "this is why you trust me on this, and we must go help Saudis with
Saddam."

Then years pass, US is in its 10th year of Iraq war. Everybody has since
forgot Saudis, and can't care more why this has started when they have to
finish this war at all costs. The guy serious guy in the suit keeps shouting
"This is all Saddam who did all this! I have a proof, but is a state secret,
just trust me!"

Imagine now somebody coming out and telling everybody: "there was no terrible
secret" to begin with, and you had no reason to listen to that serious guy in
the suit for all that 19 years long war.

------
pnw_hazor
A link to the case file or Barr's filed declaration and memo would be nice.

edit-to-add:

Case No.: 1:03-md-01570

In Re: Terrorist Attacks on September 11, 2001

Can't find free access to Barr's recent memo filed.

~~~
app4soft
> _Case No.: 1:03-md-01570_

Just found three PDFs with the title _" Case 1:03-md-01570-GBD-FM"_.[0,1,2]

[0]
[https://www.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/4caseyorderja...](https://www.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/4caseyorderjan182005.pdf)

[1]
[https://www.law.upenn.edu/live/files/5886-30462015-09-29opin...](https://www.law.upenn.edu/live/files/5886-30462015-09-29opinion-
daniels-granting-ksa-shc)

[2] [https://www.scribd.com/document/101651118/Judge-
Orders-6B-in...](https://www.scribd.com/document/101651118/Judge-Orders-6B-in-
Damages-for-9-11-Plaintiffs)

~~~
pnw_hazor
Those are old. Barr's recent declaration was filed 04/13/20

You can find docket information that shows when documents were filed but all
the ones I see make you pay to see the documents.

Doc No.: 6142 "DECLARATION of Attorney General William P. Barr in Support re:
[6136] MOTION for Protective Order. Document filed by FBI."

------
dillonmckay
Possibly related?

[https://www.heraldtribune.com/news/20190827/judge-rules-
fbi-...](https://www.heraldtribune.com/news/20190827/judge-rules-fbi-must-
release-details-of-911-sarasota-investigation)

------
zyztem
I was under impression that "28 pages" document was mostly declassified? Or
this is some another documents?

------
onetimemanytime
For a reason or another, Saudi Arabia means a lot to the Trump admin and
generally speaking, to all US administrations. Someone was chopped up and
...you know the story.

So everyone in our admin _s_ closed both eyes and their three ears when the
Saudis did this and that, because the Saudis are smart enough to be useful to
us in very, very important things. So we protect them from _small_ stuff, and
maybe the Saudis buy this protection with concessions to us in certain things

~~~
Smoosh
The reasons appear to be a total mystery! /s

[https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/oct/18/donald-
tru...](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/oct/18/donald-trump/donald-
trumps-claim-no-financial-interests-saudi-a/)
[https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/08/world/middleeast/saudi-
mb...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/08/world/middleeast/saudi-mbs-jared-
kushner.html) [https://theintercept.com/2018/03/21/jared-kushner-saudi-
crow...](https://theintercept.com/2018/03/21/jared-kushner-saudi-crown-prince-
mohammed-bin-salman/) [https://washingtonpress.com/2018/04/08/jared-kushner-
just-go...](https://washingtonpress.com/2018/04/08/jared-kushner-just-got-a-
billion-dollar-mystery-bailout/)

------
resters
The only possible explanation is that Barr is trying to hide wrongdoing or
negligence on the part of the US government.

Any information relevant to national security (such as names, etc.) could
easily be redacted.

~~~
wahern
The _other_ possible explanation is that it implicates high-ranking Saudi
officials, which would make it politically problematic to maintain the
existing diplomatic and security relationship. For example, while under seal
it can't be used to civilly sue those officials, and it permits the DoJ to
avoid prosecutions it might be politically forced to pursue. Such civil and
criminal suits would disrupt the existing state of affairs. By keeping the
secrets you keep closed the pandora's box of political pain, even though
anyone who cares already knows what's in the box.

People outside the government have read the files. As the article says,
lawyers for plaintiffs in the ongoing civil suit saga have seen them, as
presumably would the judge. If the documents detailed criminal activity on the
part of the U.S. government we'd have heard something about it by now.

~~~
shiftpgdn
I'll be run out of town on a rail for this due to the Alex Jones association
but what about the dancing Israelis? The limited amount of government
documents released do genuinely seem to point to Israeli Mossad having some
fore-knowledge of the attack.

~~~
mirimir
Yes, they were tailing the Saudis through the US. That was reported by Salon,
within days after the attacks. But maybe they were helping the NSA and FBI.
And perhaps someone made the call that it wasn't important enough to risk
blowing some other operation.

------
fc_barnes
Minneapolis field office memo.

~~~
yasp
What's this?

~~~
voz_
Not sure what OC meant. Googling led me to
[https://oig.justice.gov/special/s0606/chapter1.htm](https://oig.justice.gov/special/s0606/chapter1.htm)

------
beepboopbeep
The man's credibility is long gone.

~~~
lpah4all
Who the fuck would downvote this?

It is established fact.

Oh, that's right. It's 2020 and the Internet has no shortage of ideological
idiots and information saboteurs. Talk about a thorny problem for a board like
this.

~~~
kencausey
I have no problem with the statement. But as a HackerNews comment it is far
too reductionist. At the very least, in my opinion, it should have been
accompanied by at least mentioning supporting information if not actual
citations.

~~~
lpah4all
Josh Marshall and his team at TalkingPointsMemo have been doing a fantastic
job for these past four years documenting Trump's AG turnstile that finally
landed him the cover-up artist Barr, whose lawyering for government criminals
goes back to the Reagan administration. And that man is good at what he does,
for he has no shame; it's team-first and damn the Constitution.

And at some point, it no longer became reductionist to call Nixon a criminal.
His AG ended up doing 19 months, and that was nothing compared to what these
mofos are doing.

Also, h/t to Marcy Wheeler at emptywheel.net for her fine reporting on the
transgressions of the Trump administration.

~~~
AndrewBissell
Barr actually got his start even before the Reagan admin. In the 70s he helped
the CIA fight the various measures that came out of the Church Commission to
impose some measure of accountability on the intelligence community.

