
Turks detained for using ByLock 'had human rights breached' - gfredtech
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/11/turks-detained-encrypted-bylock-messaging-app-human-rights-breached
======
Loic
The most terrific part is that Turks outside of Turkey (here in Germany) are
now censuring themselves as they are afraid to be monitored and as a result be
arrested when going to Turkey for vacations and visiting family.

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mnw21cam
Non-amp link: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/11/turks-
detained...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/11/turks-detained-
encrypted-bylock-messaging-app-human-rights-breached)

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Joe-Z
Wow, are we really just deleting comments from people we don't agree with?

I haven't seen any insults here, just people commenting from a seemingly pro-
Erdogan perspective. What's the reasoning behind that?

EDIT: Specifically I'm referring to diminish's comment from ~1 hour ago.

~~~
diminish
Sad part is that I'm not even pro-Erdogan. I vocally disagree and vote against
most of his policies/approach etc. But people on this thread want to see a
black and white picture conforming to their distorted vision and can't
tolerate the reality as it has occurred. Sad.

EDIT: here's the flagged comment:

Downloading the app wasn't the only reason they are under arrest. The app
mentioned isn't available to anyone, but could only be used if you were
endorsed by 2 members of the US-based cleric Fethullah organization. It's only
"one" of the reasons people are under arrest. Most of their logs of
conversation, and with whom they spoke is the main reason why they are under
suspicion.

The app was used extensively during the military coup attempt, executed by the
members of the Fethullah organization - which killed around 250 and wounded
2000-3000 civilians during last years military coup attempt.

Read Sedat Ergin articles on hurriyet.com.tr if you truly want to get informed
about the court case against the military coup attempt. He is a well respected
investigative journalist (definitely not pro-Erdogan).

[1] [http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/yazarlar/sedat-ergin/darbe-
sanikl...](http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/yazarlar/sedat-ergin/darbe-saniklarinin-
inkar-stratejisi-40577077)

~~~
e12e
I don't see why the post was flagged without comment.

That said, this:

> The app mentioned isn't available to anyone, but could only be used if you
> were endorsed by 2 members of the US-based cleric Fethullah organization.

Seems flat out wrong? Bylock isn't available in the Norwegian Google play
store (or indeed anywhere now - it's been unpublished?), but appears to have
been generally available?:

[https://www.appbrain.com/app/bylock%3A-secure-chat-
talk/net....](https://www.appbrain.com/app/bylock%3A-secure-chat-
talk/net.client.by.lock)

[https://bylock-secure-chat-talk.droidinformer.org/de/](https://bylock-secure-
chat-talk.droidinformer.org/de/)

Note the top comment (troll):

> COUP PLOTTER wrote

> Should have just used Orbot any old xmpp chat client. Now we're all jail.
> See you next time :D

> 13\. Oktober 2016

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pjc50
Well, this thread is clearly going to be heavily trolled by pro-Erdogan
activists ..

~~~
donquichotte
Agreed, downvoting and flagging valid comments is rampant.

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cryoshon
but when will turks "fight back" rather than continuing to suffer under a
petty dictator who arrests them for their app use?

~~~
QAPereo
History says... when life becomes so unbearable that losing it in a fight
becomes an acceptable alternative.

~~~
dogma1138
North Korea, Nazi Germany, The USSR....

~~~
QAPereo
People did fight in each case, sometimes they lose though.

~~~
dogma1138
Mostly due to occupation not as much internally.

What you said is true for an occupier because for them it's a cost benefit
calculation and they can always go back home. For a national dictator it's a
life and death calculation.

Erdogan at this point cannot step down without facing trial or exile in his
future.

~~~
QAPereo
Sure, but look at how long places like Egypt and Tunisia stayed under one
dictator... generations often decline until the tipping point is reached.
Remember that in the Middle East and North Africa it took global climate
change leading to droughts and economic detestation to impel the population to
act.

~~~
dogma1138
Tunisia was non-violent for the most part.

Egypt wen't from Mubarak to defacto Erdogan under the Muslim Brotherhood then
back to Mubarak 2.0 after the military took over because the MB was a
nightmare.

Egypt was a much more complicated issue while force was used during the
protests Mubarak had hardly had an iron grip over the people, and for the most
part as far as dictators go history will remember him as someone who actually
wanted to move Egypt forward he was a patriot which is a rare vice for
dictators.

------
donquichotte
Wow, Erdogan really turned his "assassination attempt" into a
Reichstagsbrand![0] It's quite disheartening to see the rise of a fascist
dictator in the 21st century. I'm afraid for my progressive friends in
Istanbul.

[0][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire)

------
johansch
I think the international community should implement tech export limitations
already at this stage, rather then ten years down the line when they have
completely cemented their dictatorship.

~~~
misja111
I like Erdogan as little as you do, but he is not a dictator; he has been
democratically elected and enjoys a lot of support from most of the Turkish
population.

Which makes it a bit odd to impose sanctions on Turkey; should we impose
sanctions on people because of the laws that they (indirectly) have chosen for
themselves?

~~~
rebuilder
Depends on the laws. If a country's laws contravene e.g. international human
rights treaties, that potentially seems like solid grounds for sanctions.

~~~
21
Before we get to Turkey there are other much more outrageous human rights
violators.

For example Saudi Arabia, where if you say that you are atheist you are
punishable by death and will be. But instead of sanctions, US, UK, France and
others do multi-billion arms deals with them.

"In March 2014, the Saudi interior ministry issued a royal decree branding all
atheists as terrorists"

~~~
dogma1138
Here is where you are wrong.

Turkey is arguably more important geopolitically especially at this tense time
in regards to Russia.

They have a large and growing economy which isn't tied to a single resource.

They have a very large and capable army and are a NATO memeber.

They are still not beyond the point of no return which a large portion of
their population being compatible with western liberal values.

Turkey is a country which you can actually help, Saudi Arabia is pretty much
the opposite.

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kakarot
Dear god. All of those poor people dismissed from their jobs... Just how long
before this is happening in the US?

~~~
dsfyu404ed
This is basically the same behavior seen in post red scare, McCarthyism, the
inquisition. It's happened before. It's happened in many countries.

Society has yet to develop a successful and long lived method of controlling
it's actions in a way that doesn't grossly mistreat people (and people who
associate with them) who threaten the status quo with rapid change.

