
Do people become happier after 40? - pseudolus
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/04/12/do-people-become-happier-after-40
======
epynonymous
41yo, no debt (mortgage paid off), decent savings, investments, good job, but
i'm nowhere near fu money or retirement. family came during my mid-30's which
has been a high point for certain, but i think from a health perspective,
body's not like it used to be, gained a lot of weight, recovery from working
out is taking longer, stamina is deteriorating, libido is weakening, deaths in
family are becoming more commonplace.

overall i think each decade has had good and bad moments, i dont necessarily
think collectively any decade has been better or worse than any other, just
different types of good (and bad) and different experiences.

having a family has been a blessing for sure so perhaps that's one of the
reasons why the results are such.

one thing i do think about, more often than i'd like, is when i get to a
certain age where health has declined significantly, teeth have all fallen
out, cartilage in all joints have worn out or thinned to the point where it
hurts to walk, taste buds have recessed, risk of a heart attack or stroke
increases, aside from having grandkids, quality of life has gone down the
drain, i wonder if it's still worth it, somewhat morbis, and probably wont
know until you get there.

i think the point is to enjoy the ride to eternity, every decade is a blessing
so take the good with the bad

~~~
isoprophlex
> body's not like it used to be

I'm 32 and my body is already sore all the time. already i miss my body at 21.

not my mind, I'm a lot more mentally stable now. but body deteriorating is a
big stressor to me...

~~~
antisthenes
Same here. I'm in the best shape of my life at 31 (3.5 years of consistent gym
routines), but there are still things I can't do that I could at 16-17 with
almost no exercise (like running up a long escalator or 14 floors to my flat
with no breaks)

Aside from VO2, my vision is also notably worse and some of my teeth are now
more filling than original tooth. And the joint flexibility from sedentary
education and jobs is gone (yoga is downright painful for me)

Youth is a hell of a drug and I get why people say it's wasted on the young.

No regrets here, but getting older sucks.

~~~
isoprophlex
> Youth is a hell of a drug and I get why people say it's wasted on the young.

I'm glad 32 year old me never talked to 21 year old me. I'd have convinced me
to do even more stupid shit while I was still a youth.

~~~
DougN7
I don’t want to agree with you (it’s not the responsible thing), but I do
agree.

------
agumonkey
30s here, I spend teen and early adult years in various forms of anxieties
culminating in a super crap decade. Considering that path, I extrapolated that
life will be, at best, constantly shitty if I work to stay afloat.

But it's not. To a point I do feel like a 14 year old kid these days. And at
times.. I even have flashes of child like happiness. Before when I used to
remember good times, it would either feel like good+old or nostalgic+old. But
what I'm talking about is more like good+present.. just like when I was a
child. Some burst of careless and strong inspiration. It doesn't last more
than a minute, but knowing that your mind can still have these feels like
newfound oxygen.

~~~
RankingMember
What did you change to get to your present state?

~~~
agumonkey
Sadly nothing tangible I can suggest doing to others. I'm not doing regular
physical exercise, nor dramatically different diet. And note that my material
situation is half shit (jobless, at my parents, dysfunctional family). So it's
not a matter of finding a better spot either.

I guess my point is, don't underestimate your mind and capability for
happiness, even in the worst of times, even if counting a decade.

My only hypothesis, is that after trauma you have a finer sense of what is
good and bad for you and you kinda filter shit out (be it doubt, anxiety, low
self esteem, social pressure) and think/go for simple but deeper fun
thoughts/activities that tickle that sense of happiness.

ps: oh also, 30s is also an age where you usually have childrens so childhood
is often in your mind. So maybe this is a normal time period to have more
attuned brain toward this kind of mindstate.

------
lordnacho
Close to 40, couple of young kids.

I'm not sure happiness is the thing to think about. It's meaning that's
important. Happiness is a sort of evolutionary trickery to help your savannah-
dwelling ancestors. Meaning is something they'd have almost no perspective on,
given what's happened in between.

For me I've gotten to this stage where I feel like it's a long way between
things that are entirely new.

Personally I've seen deaths, illnesses, births, weddings, divorces. Lots of
all of them, from near and far.

Professionally, I've been a junior guy and a senior guy. A founder, individual
contributor, a leader, a follower. Seen businesses go well, and go under. Been
hired and fired, hired and fired others.

In terms of observations about the world, I'm by no means an expert on
everything, but whenever something comes up I can more or less place it. I
know roughly what X is, and how other people see it. I no longer get that
"holy crap, I never knew tax optimization employed so many people". Or "that
declarative languages stuff, it's more important than I first realized".

Same with social, economic, and political stuff. I'm not surprised to run into
one or another observance anymore. And I've heard the arguments before.
Sometimes better made, but the same stuff.

Science and math seem to still have that potential, so I'm gonna mine that.
Things like NNs still throw up new things, even if they can be glued to a long
history of thought. And observations about physics can still fascinate, though
in little pieces.

I'm thinking cybersecurity next as somewhere to dig as well.

~~~
brational
Do you speak any other languages / have you learned a 2nd language as an
adult?

Pretty interesting how simply viewing the world through an ever so slightly
different verbal lens can have interesting impacts on perspective. albeit
mostly only little things. But as you alluded to, it's mostly only the little
things that might catch you off guard anymore.

~~~
lordnacho
Yeah actually I should have added that. I speak two languages fluently (as in
could do a literature degree, you wouldn't know I wasn't native if you heard
me on the phone), another as mother tongue, another as 2nd mother tongue due
to weird family history, and one from school. In addition lived in yet another
language zone, and learning Mandarin as well.

Which is pretty interesting but I wish I had more time to explore it.

------
pstuart
Well, you certainly stop worrying about a lot of stupid shit, so that helps.

~~~
ok_coo
40+er here. I feel similarly. I wouldn't say I'm happier but I definitely
worry a lot less about saying "no" and BS in general.

What's weird to me is that I never felt that transition happen. It just seems
to have occurred over the last few years. A younger me had a real hard time
saying no, now it's easy and liberating! I can't tell if it's an age thing or
something else though.

~~~
bemmu
38 and recently felt this transition happen. I realized that it's just as
silly to constantly dwell on negative thoughts, as it would be on positive
ones, so decided to try that for a few days.

I don't think I can transmit this feeling by explaining it, since it's
something you can only decide for yourself, but I made the choice to focus on
the positive. I still keep the cynical realness in the back of my mind, should
I need it, but I don't want to spend most of my time there anymore.

It's been over a month now of much improved mood, hopefully this will stick.

~~~
swozey
Getting into Buddhist philosophy has helped me a lot with this. I'm no bubbly
positive spirit or anything but I feel much more content and present over the
last few months where I've finally dove in. Ram Dass is known for saying
something along the lines of "You spend all of your time loving or hating
things. Why not just love everything. It's easier."

If you're interested I'd recommend reading Thic Naht Hahn, Tolle, the Bhagavad
Gita (get it with explanations, The Essence Of is great), etc.

I've found that whether or not I practice the teachings just continuing to
read about them keeps me mindful.

And daily metta meditation.

------
notacoward
53, one kid in high school.

I'm not going to try for an _answer_ here, but I will mention an important
confounding factor in studies like these: increasing resistance to peer
pressure. I find that older people are better able to resist the "work until
you drop" or "keep up with the Joneses" messages that society gives us. We're
a bit more careful about avoiding things that drag us down and
seeking/developing things that pull us up. Not all, of course. Some are surely
worse off in all of these ways than any kid fresh out of college. But _on
average_ I think older people are better at maintaining their sense of well-
being, independently of whether their actual circumstances are better or
worse.

------
chriselles
Yikes!

Former USSR component States are just......horrific.

The literature of the culture is not very happy ending-ish.

Interesting to see happiness in US females, a very solid and consistent
lifelong upward trend after bottoming out in the late 20’s, early 30’s.

Vast difference from Western European women, almost a mirror opposite.

Western European men are almost a lifelong flatline.

I wonder why that is?

From some reason I’m left with a random thought along the lines of
“egalitarianism of happiness” for Western European males.

~~~
ivanhoe
In ex-USSR you need to account for a drastic change of world that 40+ years
old had to live through, complete change of world views and moral, loss of
social and financial security, and all other horrors of transition period.
Very few people got out of it feeling better. As old people die and younger
generations replace them I presume that the graph will start to look more and
more like the other countries.

~~~
jondubois
The collapse of communism opened up significant opportunities for wealth
accumulation, but this mostly benefited younger people who were ambitious and
willing to bend the rules.

~~~
sedachv
> ambitious and willing to bend the rules.

Please don't call organized crime a "willingness to bend the rules."

------
Roritharr
I'm 31, have a son and a second one on the way. Happiness is a very bad term
to describe quality of life for me, as I feel happy often especially around my
family and friends.

On the flip-side the pressures of my financial situation (ok paying job with
stock options, involuntary stay-at-home-partner, living in an expensive german
city by job requirement, no savings and some debt because of multiple failed
startups in my 20s), job responsibility and ambitions (being a good dad while
trying to achieve notable success business-wise) have me constantly worrying
and doubting myself lately.

I hope in my 40s I've managed to reduce these pressures by either having
achieved the success I was looking for or having accepted my position in life
so I can live without the constant anxiety of my dreams slowly withering in
front of my eyes and solely focus on the things that are enjoyable in the
present. With this in mind I can absolutely see my 40s being more enjoyable
then my 20s and 30s, either way.

------
narrator
What a poorly researched article. More Americans than ever are taking anti-
depressants. The trend markedly increases with age.

[https://psychnews.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi...](https://psychnews.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.pn.2017.pp9b2)

"Among both males and females, the study found that people aged 40 and older
are more likely to take antidepressants than younger people."

"The study also found that women are two and a half times more likely to take
antidepressant medication as males, while 23 percent of women ages 40 to 59
take antidepressants, more than in any other age or sex group."

[https://psychcentral.com/news/2011/10/25/antidepressant-
use-...](https://psychcentral.com/news/2011/10/25/antidepressant-use-
up-400-percent-in-us/30677.html)

~~~
pyronite
The Economist article includes wide-ranging information on the relationship
between age and happiness in various parts of the world. The information
you've provided addresses a small portion of that (the percentage of the
population on anti-depressants as they age).

A population can be both more happy with age and (as a percentage) on more
anti-depressants. Some potential explanations:

1\. As we age, we have greater access to healthcare (money/quality
employment/government), so those needing anti-depressants are able to get them
more regularly

2\. Even with access to healthcare, there may be greater willingness to make
changes in life and confront unhappiness as we age

3\. Perhaps those who age are happier overall _because_ they're on anti-
depressants. The Economist article doesn't address this possibility.

I feel like the flaw in your argument may be that increased anti-depressant
usage among older adults indicates increased depression as a person ages. That
doesn't take into account other factors that might cause anti-depressant usage
to rise with age.

~~~
basetop
That brings up an interesting philosophical question. If drugs are what causes
"happiness", are you really happy?

If you are sad and depressed and have to take medication to be "happy", can we
really say you are happy?

If my car can go 200 mph, I wouldn't say I can move 200 mph. But then again
drugs change you in a way that cars don't.

Of course there is the question of what is happiness and how can we
objectively and empirically qualify it. So the entire question could be moot.

~~~
Djvacto
I'm going to liken your question to a similar but slightly different example:
If I have diabetes, and I need insulin to be "healthy", can I ever truly be
healthy?

You can swap that for any condition and any requirement of a substance, or
even a requirement not to consume a substance. I personally feel like all your
question does is invalidate the use of often needed medications, treatments,
or other potentially stigmatized practices by people who need those things.

If I had depression, or anxiety, and someone was basically asking if I can
ever be the same as others because I need medication, I think that would hit
me incredibly hard. It doesn't feel like accepting or supportive language to
me.

~~~
basetop
I'm not trying to be or not to be accepting or supporting. I was just trying
to have a philosophical debate on what I felt was an interesting topic. So
people's feelings weren't really a consideration of mine.

Your diabetes/insulin example is even more interesting than mine. As a person
of color with higher risk of diabetes, I have family members who are diabetic
and need insulin. Would I consider my diabetic family members healthy? Do they
consider themselves to be healthy? If they were healthy, they wouldn't be
diabetic or need insulin. But taking insulin makes them healthy. But then if
they were healthy, they wouldn't need insulin, which they do. You really gave
me something to think about and maybe even talk to my family members about.
Thanks.

Even more, if there is a pill to cure diabetes, is a person who takes the pill
more healthy than the person taking insulin?

------
euos
39 and definitely agree. 20th, 30 - living in a poor country, settling in US,
small kids, uncertainty.

39 - Silicon Valley salary, comfortable savings, six digits kids college
account. Fun job, lots of respect for OSS contributions, great food, biking,
fitness, luxury car. On top of that - coming home every day to kids who agree
to play any online game I want! Main source of anxiety - aging parents living
in a far-away country...

~~~
bluetomcat
My father in his twenties in communist Bulgaria during the late 1970s:

\- lands a stable engineering job in a new factory in a small town right out
of university

\- housing not an issue, a big apartment close to the factory is provided by
the enterprise

\- has two kids with free health and child-care (zero street crime, drug usage
unheard of)

\- the authorities help mom find a job as a teacher in close proximity

\- no fancy food, cars or clothing, but still, no big shortages, either

~~~
antisthenes
Anecdata, but my grandfather (now passed) was able to support a family of 8
children with a flight engineer job in Ukraine between late 50s to early 80s.

Free housing, international travel, crazy paid leave. 8 healthy successful
children, no one starved.

I can't imagine being able to support more than 2 kids ever, without somehow
becoming super-successful through sheer luck.

~~~
tasuki
People used to spend much less on children. Might've been better for everyone.

------
eecsninja
Keep in mind that this is a survey of people of each age living during the
2010s. Not a graph of how each generation's happiness has changed as they
aged.

~~~
Ericson2314
Yeah that ruins the data for me.

------
nickjj
The graph in the US looks like "oh I hit 66, now I can retire, yay!".

Just taking a guess here but if you happened to be 25 with enough money to
retire for life, you would have an even higher happiness rating since you
achieved financial independence with your whole life ahead of you.

I'm almost done with my 30s and I don't feel that much different than my 20s.
If anything I cared less about things as a teenager. As you get older you tend
to have more things to think and worry about.

------
tenaciousDaniel
I'm personally much happier, but this is due to the fact that:

1\. I make a lot more money now so I'm financially stable

2\. I've transitioned to a career that is rewarding

3\. I don't have as many existential fears/anxieties

4\. I have the drive and discipline to do what I need to do

Not everyone experiences these, and I'd imagine that without them, my 30's
would be far worse than my 20's.

------
bengalister
42 years old here and I think so far my best years were in my mid 30s when I
was old enough to put things into perspective, financially more relaxed,
autonomous, still healthy and willing to change or contribute positively to
this world, still wanting to explore.

But for me, health issues started to appear in my late 30s and also I felt
reaching 40 years old that my energy is depleted. Also I am actually less
relaxed especially working in IT because I am starting to feel like a dinosaur
(I still do software development). It might sound pessimistic but I think my
best years are behind me.

~~~
cageface
I felt the same way in my early 40s. That feeling passed though and in
hindsight doesn't really seem to have had much real substance.

I switched to a plant based diet a few years ago and that feels like it
rewound the clock physically about ten years. It takes a bit of effort but the
payoff has been massive.

~~~
pacomerh
Hey I did the plant based diet too and I feel great, basically less heavy
somehow. And maybe related, I'm not sure, but less issues with teeth

------
ubermonkey
I'm not sure I got _happier_ , but I'm definitely differently happy, and
probably happier in a more sustainable way.

I'm financially healthier, my job is better, I'm physically in MUCH better
shape at 49 than I was at 40 (like, 60 pounds lighter?), and have a better
sense of myself.

------
jeevest
54 here. Empty nester with a stable personal and work life. I feel happy most
times, a bit of envy when I see younger folks. Borderline financially stable
going into retirement. If I stay healthy for the next decade and keep working
I will be OK financially.. not yet there. Mortgage 70% paid off.

I feel 'mature' and at peace, now, and sometimes kick myself for not getting
into that state at a younger age.

I still enjoy fulltime-coding, no carpal tunnels yet..30 years at the
keyboard. (thanks to a mouse/windows/apple aversion). Sometimes I think I've
'failed' in a positive sort of way, by not being aggressive and going into
corporate management. Other times, I wonder why am I still coding, my friends
all seem to be managing (but cursing their jobs at the same time).

I especially feel good when I see myself as being reasonably healthy and
active. Like others, I am getting to accept and look past the things I won't
achieve. Strangely, many things (both technical/conceptual and life-related)
seem easily grasped, the more I relax and slow down.

------
chriselles
50 here.

Married, 2 teenager kids, all in excellent physical and mental health,
extended family and friends, no mortgage, good savings, own a profitable
company, running a small offshoot startup, Angel co-invest in a handful of
startups, chair a veteran support charity, and still serve in the military in
a limited specialist capacity.

Beyond my family, I tend to swap around with the above with 1-2 of the above
list “deep” and the rest of the list “shallow” in terms of my time/attention.

So my life is like my kindle reading list and podcast queue, overflowing and
growing faster than I can ever possibly consume it.

Whack-a-mole comes to mind.

But I’m smiling while I’m playing this chaotic game I created for myself.

Happiness is in my life, but so is melancholy.

I’ve climbed some mountains(literally and figuratively), regretfully abandoned
a few peaks, but remain focused on the mountains yet to climb while I am still
able.

I view happiness as the pursuit of it, journey towards it, and the memorable
idiosyncrasies of life discovered along the way, rather than the temporary
arrival at a destination called happiness.

So journey over destination.

------
05
Self-reported? Asking questions sure is cheaper than doing fMRI scans, but
cultural differences might result in significantly higher noise, making
different generations’ and countries’ results uncomparable.

~~~
gph
What makes you think fMRI scans would produce better results? What would they
even be looking for?

------
DisruptiveDave
Turning 40 this year with my first kid expected on my birthday. I've
progressively become "happier" with each decade (maybe half decade, actually).
That's not solely because of this supposed wisdom that comes with age, but
much more because I put a lot of time and effort into myself. The flip side of
aging is that a lot of my friends never outgrew "bad habits" from younger
years and now they are stuck with them. A lot of drinking, quite a bit of pill
use, and a lack of purpose outside of work/hanging out/consuming
entertainment. I also see older folks fall into the trappings of tying their
"happiness" to things that can be purchased, which of course isn't actually
happiness.

------
jackcosgrove
In the US at least those who are retired now won the jackpot historically.
Those born in the 40s and 50s experienced the greatest increase in personal
wealth ever. Of those born in the late 1940s, 90% eventually made more money
than their parents at a given age. Of those born in the early 1980s, only 50%
have achieved that. I'm actually somewhat surprised that happiness is as high
among the youth as it is. I can chalk that up to good health and ignorance
about their financial futures. A lot of happiness gets "pulled forward" from
future happiness, financially.

~~~
pojzon
I would like to see the same study about millenials in their 40s in 20 years
to know how bad we have it in comparison to current 40s..

Im currently in top 5% earning in my country and i still cant afford a good
house and the same quality of life level as my parents..

Dont wanna even think about the majority. Those peoole will be living in dept
or month to month till the last day of their lifes.

------
kheyanne
Happiness is relative. You don't need an age indicator to be happy. Don't wait
for 40.

------
MetricT
I'm 45. My brother died in my arms from brain cancer last year. So I'm going
to say "no".

Live is easy before 40. It gets hard quick after that. :-/

~~~
seppin
> Live is easy before 40. It gets hard quick after that. :-/

30's it gets serious, 40's hard.

------
zitterbewegung
Does the study account for survivorship bias ?

~~~
seppin
Exactly. A lot of people's lives get better with age, some don't.

------
onemoresoop
I think it does get happier (but a different type of happiness nonetheless)
but it comes at a cost. My 30's taught me to care more for fewer and fewer
things and focus on what I really want. I think we become wiser as we learn
from our mistakes in our 20s and 30s. The cost I'd say is less energy levels.

------
jatsign
Just turned 40 this week. I don't know if I'm happy then when I turned 30, but
I am less stressed.

I had typed out a long paragraph about why I'm less stressed, but I realized
the tl;dr is - I figured out what matters to me, and, more importantly, what
doesn't. When you figure out what's NOT important, it's like a big weight
being off your shoulders.

That and probably decreasing testosterone levels ;)

~~~
pickle-wizard
I'm not quite 40, but am happier now than when I was younger. A key part of
that is financial. After 20 years of working I have a nice nest egg saved up.
It is not enough enough that I can retire, but it is enough that I don't have
to worry.

When I was younger, I was always stressed about how I would pay the bills.
When layoffs would go around I would be super stressed , worrying about what
if it happens to me. I'd also be stuck dealing with some asshole boss because
I needed the money again causing more stress.

Right now there is a rumor going around that my company is not doing too well
financially. In the past I would have been worried about it. Now my only
thought is if I do get laid off, is where I do some traveling to. If it is
during the summer, think I'll go spend some time in the Canadian Rockies. If
during the winter, I'll go back to Australia.

~~~
tedmiston
I'm in my late 20s and a nest egg is years away, but having a a basic
emergency fund and financial safety net did wonders for my peace of mind. For
those who haven't done it yet, I think it's the most important financial goal
to hit as early in your career as you can.

Long-term disability insurance and life insurance are nice to have too.
Patio11 has been preaching this [1] but it took me a while to really get it.
The technical detail of "own occupation" is really important here.

[1]:
[https://twitter.com/patio11/status/988094196274769920](https://twitter.com/patio11/status/988094196274769920)

~~~
pickle-wizard
Yes long term disability is a must have. I usually get it through my employer.

When I was laid off last year I did have the option to continue the disability
insurance, but it was a bit more expensive that what I was paying as an
employee. IIRC it went from $50/month to $100/month.

What is nice is that my new employer picks up the tab 100%, but it is only
60%. Usually in the past I would pay a bit extra to get 75%, but that is not
an option.

I've never thought about private disability insurance before, but it is
something that I should look into.

------
sathishvj
I think this rating does not take into consideration local culture. For
example, I don't think India has a culture that makes you introspect whether
one is 'happy'. How about asking whether one is unhappy? My suspicion is that
India will score low (as in, not unhappy) on that also.

------
JohnFen
My happiness level increased a lot after 40. My hypothesis is that the this is
because it took me that long to realize that I'm better off living my life on
my own terms and paying a lot less attention to what others think of how I
live my life, what my interests are, and so forth.

------
ryandrake
The strong continuous up slope after 60 or so in the US makes sense. Retirees
_in general_ have it really good here. They are a massive voting block with a
lot of political power, allowing them to tip the scales in their favor
financially, from taxes to federal and state subsidies/programs which entirely
benefit older folks.

I’m surprised that “women in their 20s” happiness level is so low. I always
thought of that demographic as living life on “easy mode”. They are highly
educated compared to average, still have their health, energy, and looks, and
without as much pressure to do the career thing as similarly aged men. Maybe
just showing my own biases.

------
esoterica
Self reported happiness ratings measure mostly just a culture's relationship
to arbitrary numerical rating systems. What does "ok" feel like on a scale of
1 to 10? 5? 8?

~~~
dudul
I would even ask "what's the difference between 7 and 8?" Or 2 and 3.

Maybe that's how my brain works, but I always found "1 to 10" scales utterly
stupid. Unless you have super clear criteria for each level. I always favor "1
to 5" scales for this reason. Way easier for me to reason in terms of
"terrible, bad, ok, good, awesome".

------
bracobama
[https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLND1JCRq8Vuh3f0P5qjrS...](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLND1JCRq8Vuh3f0P5qjrSdb5eC1ZfZwWJ)

This is a really interesting series that I've been getting into. John Varvaeke
is seriously underrated on YouTube and this series about awakening from the
meaning crisis explains a lot about how modern society is focusing on the
wrong things. Highly recommended!

------
madengr
I think it’s being old enough, to be financially independent enough, to not
take shit from anyone.

47 and paid off mortgage this week. Zero debt and have 1 kids college saved up
in cash, and low 7 figure retirement savings.

Still need a job for other kids college and medical insurance. I’ll keep
working at my employer until I drop dead, as I like the technical work, but
I’m on the 3 day plan now. 3 bad days in a row and I’m gone, and I made them
aware of that.

~~~
crispyambulance
What do you mean "3 bad days in a row" and you're gone?

That seems like an extremely fragile and precarious situation to put your
employer into! No one likes ultimatums, it could hasten your termination.

~~~
madengr
“it could hasten your termination”

Yes, that’s part of the happiness; me not giving a shit. An employers ideal
engineer is someone young with kids and a fat mortgage.

A financially independent graybeard with loads of institutional and domain
knowledge; they have less control.

My employer has participated in stack ranking and walked out 25 year employees
with 5 minutes notice. 3 days is my being generous.

~~~
aswanson
That "young kids & fat mortgage" is god to honest truth. I knew a manager that
celebrated his reports buying their first cars or houses as it increased his
leverage over them. Sickening, but true.

------
kitplummer
Not really age-related. But, I definitely now believe concussions affect
happiness/depression. As someone in my late 40s who has endure a few
concussions, and looking back, can almost definitively state that this
physical condition has a part in my mental state. So by correlation...I don't
think the question is anything but plausible.

------
ausjke
after-40? that's mid-life crisis, period.

parents are getting really old, kids are still teenagers, jobs are not as
secure anymore, physical condition is starting to show its age.

whatever it is, just live with a good mood, everyday could be a better day, no
matter how old that is.

------
i_can_c_sharp
No. 2 kids, just took a huge loan that will take 25 years to pay of (I’ll be
67). One heart attack (stress related) under the belt. Working 10-12 a day in
a shitty country. Almost no savings.

I see successful guys answering in a “look at me how great I am” style. FU

------
beat
A while back, a longtime friend posted a photo of 21 year old me on Facebook
(over 30 years ago now). He asked what would surprise 21 year old me the most
about today's me. I said "Mostly that I keep calling him 'dumbass'."

------
keithwarren
I turned 40 today, so this is good news.

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bg4
Almost 42, I believe I'm much more content than happy. That's what has made
all the difference.

------
leib
I literally laughed out loud at how the former USSR states happiness just
flatlines as time goes on

~~~
bluetomcat
In the USSR, you don't look for happiness, happiness looks for you.

~~~
athenot
I know you meant this as a joke but there's some applicability here. Seeking
happiness can produce a lot of negative emotions, as you become very aware
that many other people are way happier than you (or at the very least, show
off a high level of happiness while hiding the details). It's possible to get
into this state where things are never happy enough in this pursuit of
happiness.

But all the happy people I know have a deep appreciation for the little things
in life, a gratitude for whatever good comes their way, no matter how slim it
is. In that respect, they are optimizing for allowing all bits of happiness
that comes their way to actually have an effect on them.

~~~
bluetomcat
Growing up in a former Eastern bloc country transitioning towards capitalism
(Bulgaria), I was able to witness the change in people's behaviours and social
expectations. Greed and arrogance had suddenly become the order of the day in
the 1990s, in exchange for the ability to gain status and material possessions
previously unavailable (Western cars, modern clothing, etc.).

As a result, our current society is much more atomised and the feeling of
connectedness is lost to a large degree. In the past people looked at
happiness as a way to exist in a group, now it's everyone's own game of
"finding truth and happiness" (often at the cost of screwing up others, even
people from your family).

~~~
badpun
Very similar thing happened in Poland. I remember growing up in the 80s in a
typical soviet-style appartment block house of 30 flats. My mother used to
know almost every family in the building, she roughly knew what was going on
in their lives, sometimes helped them in small ways or have gotten the help
from them. It was like a small village community. Partly it was dictated by
neccessity - due to constant shortages of goods, it was crucial to have
"connections", that could help you buy things like refrigerators, cars or even
stood in line for bread for you.

After the transformation of 1989, which in Poland was performed by the
government in the form of the "shock therapy" (their term), lots of inequality
appeared almost right away. Some people did well, some were barely getting by,
and some lost their livelihood and were in very bad shape. The community
atmosphere of the building vanished, it started to become vandalized or
occupied by drunkards/homeless. Ties between families have loosened, the
"connections" became unnecessary as the material needs were now efficiently
satisfied by the market forces and basic capitalism. The building is now just
a bunch of people that share the same roof, but otherwise don't want to have
anything to do with each other (as is standard in other capitalist countries).

------
black-alert
depends heavily on your bank account

------
TomMasz
I certainly did not. But a sample size of 1 is insignificant, so there's that.

~~~
frickinLasers
Make that 2.

------
kangnkodos
Maybe unhappy people who are 40 and older are more likely to die?

~~~
krapp
Everyone 40 and older is more likely to die, regardless of how happy they are.

~~~
satokema_work
This is a little myopic, GP is clearly trying to posit that "there are less
unhappy people above 40 because they are more death-prone than their happy
peers".

I've seen some science headlines that sound like that's the case, but I
haven't read the papers so take it with a dumptruck full of salt.

------
fouc
What happens if you wait till your 40s before having kids?

~~~
LifeLiverTransp
You will be a old men when you have teenagers. Sounds like a great combo. But
kids is always better then no kids. So go for it. Life finds ways.

~~~
yboris
Kids is not "always better then no kids". Not having kids means you have less
stress & more free time.

Furthermore, there are some tough moral questions you need to answer when
creating a living being in this world. It's unfortunate that having kids is
the default and there seems to be very little public dialogue about the moral
dimensions of it all.

~~~
LifeLiverTransp
There is something that goes off the rails, when you dont have at least one
kid.

Look at people who do not have one in there elder years. Look at them driving
around dogs in buggys, dressing them up like replacement toddlers, look at
those faces, tell me that they are truely happy.

In the coldwar days, there where a lot of people who argued in a similar line-
club of rome, end of days, and so they went and got a vasectomy. Which you can
not easily reverse.

Result: Lots of sad faces, late stage in life. Sometimes logic doesent cut it,
and this is one of those moments - dont break the chain of life, daughter/son
- is one of this moments.

I dont encourage you to have many kids- one or two should do. But yes, having
a navel, that links all the way to the first mamal, and see that history
continue, something of one beeing immortal, learning to walk and talk - that
is awesome.

------
myth_drannon
Interesting that in the former USSR states if person is old enough to have
lived during communism you will be unhappy under capitalism and the more you
lived in the previous system the harder is to get used to the new system.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
That's exactly the opposite impression I get from literally everyone I know
who has lived (as an adult) in the former USSR and its satellite states
(including many people who currently live in eastern Europe). Whether they're
"happy" or not I can't say but nobody seems to want to return to a world where
you can't buy a light-bulb unless you know someone. Many of them often make
grim jokes about what that world was like.

~~~
lucideer
Are these people who have _lived (a signficant portion of their critically-
thinking lives) under Communism_ or have an impression (mostly from parents,
education, upbringing etc.) of what it was like under Communism in the past,
relative to current times.

I've certainly had the same impressions as you from friends, but most of them
would be under 35/40.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
Yes. I'm talking about people who are 50+.

~~~
badpun
I know one person who is like that (in Poland). Mostly, she's bitter about how
much she is exploited under capitalism - she could only find illegal work, so
she's paid below minimum wage, has only 5-10 days of paid vacation and
basically no worker rights whatsoever. Plus she has to worry about being fired
and starving on the street. Whereas under communism, the state was officially
obliged with providing her with job, so there was no fear of unemployment.

------
lucideer
Is the source research for this public or is it (like the full text of the
article) also paywalled?

Have read the teaser abstract and leading diagrams, and my main curiosity is
how the groupings break down granularly: e.g. former-USSR & "Western Europe"
are both _extremely!_ internally diverse. Given the averages for both, I
wouldn't be surprised if some WE countries are even above 8, and if some
former-USSR's are lower again.

* India, US and China are also internally diverse, but at least are each individual countries.

~~~
oska
The article is almost complete junk. It has however served as a catalyst for a
somewhat interesting discussion here.

------
rc_mob
I have never associated 40 year olds and older with happiness at all. If the
headline said grumpier I would agree.

~~~
codingdave
That is because those of us who are older and happier tend to be less vocal.
Go be young, be silly, be loud, make mistakes. The happy old folks will just
smile and let you be, knowing that nobody can help but be who they are, and be
the age that they are.

But the unhappy ones - they will grump at you.

------
mwexler
Is this one case where Betteridge's law
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines))
doesn't quite apply?

------
holografix
No.

------
sridca
One does wonder how much central role does puberty (rise and decline thereof)
play in these happiness trends.

And note that arranged marriage is the norm over in India (thus explaining the
inverse trend?).

------
sridca
Why is Australia & Canada not in the graph?

~~~
mikhailfranco
All too happy, would depress everyone else.

------
revskill
This is an interesting AI problem to explore.

~~~
jsnider3
Can you explain how this article relates to AI? Alternatively, can you tell me
what article you meant to comment on?

~~~
revskill
I mean the question: Do people become happier after 40.

This is a valid AI problem i think.

