
Respect - Alupis
http://dominickm.com/?p=459
======
joncrocks
_Let’s face it no business manager would think about asking for the level of
commitment and self-sacrifice that is commonly asked of software developers of
a lawyer or CPA_

I suspect the author has never been a just-out-of-college grad in any job
other than development. I can assure you that there will be the expectation of
providing your services for >40h/week in many industries.

Do you know how hard the big law/accounting firms work their new recruits?

~~~
rqebmm
Yeah this part was laughable. Fresh-out-of-school lawyers, accountant, and
business-types are routinely expected to work 80-100 hour weeks at large
firms.

I have a friend who worked at Goldman Sachs up until their manager called them
on Christmas Eve and demanded they drop everything and get to the airport ASAP
for a big meeting. There was no meeting and upon reaching the airport they
were told their job was safe and to go home and enjoy their Christmas. Those
who did not report were fired upon returning from vacation.

Do we hear about that kind of stuff ever happening to devs? (Well, outside the
gaming industry)

~~~
jiggy2011
That sounds shitty, but I assume Goldman Sachs employees are at least well
compensated for it.

~~~
kooshball
Not really. Fresh grad Wall Street analysts are paid probably comparable or
worse than first year google engineers. You don't start making good money
until much later on from bonuses. And at that point no one will call you in
for a Christmas Day meeting...

~~~
jiggy2011
Sure, but then aren't those first few years of pain the price of admission to
a cushy bonus and a free Christmas?

~~~
steanne
if they live.

[http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/nov/22/moritz-
erhar...](http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/nov/22/moritz-erhardt-
merrill-lynch-intern-dead-inquest)

------
yellowapple
> You get lured _in_ [?] with images of the lone hacker building a billion
> _dollar_ [?] website overnight in his dorm and _hear_ about the excitement
> of building a new product or even embarking on a new project for a client.

> It was thought that business could just _hire_ 75% _of_ their staff offshore
> for a third of the price and use that as downward price pressure in the
> domestic market.

> Either way _you 're_ down a dev and probably not sure why.

Corrections are emphasized. It's worth mentioning that - in addition to the
ending list of things that programmers/developers/etc. should do to make
themselves look professional - proper spelling and grammar is absolutely
_vital_. When writing a commentary about how programmers deserve respect,
having spelling/homophone errors detracts from that argument.

~~~
tomrod
Not to be pedantic, but shouldn't this read that proper spelling and grammar
_are_ absolutely vital?

~~~
xikrib
"not to be pedantic" ... is pedantic "proper spelling and grammer" can be
considered a singular. He's not wrong

~~~
tomrod
Ergo the phrasing as a question.

------
donall
This was hard to read. I couldn't get the first paragraph to parse right. "the
lone hacker building a billion website overnight in his dorm and here about
the excitement of building a new product" reads like maybe "dollars" is
missing. I don't know what "here" is doing. I suspect something was edited
rendering it ungrammatical. There are also some odd homophone errors, like
"higher" for "hire". Maybe the "here" was "hear"?

The underlying concept is interesting; it's just hard to follow because it's
so badly presented.

~~~
umanwizard
Yes, "dollars" should be added after "billion"; "here" should read "hear", and
"higher" should read "hire". I think you're exaggerating a bit; those were the
only errors I noticed, and other than that the article was easily
comprehensible.

The errors seem like the result of either poor text-to-speech software or mild
dyslexia. They don't really detract from the content.

~~~
sanderjd
My thought was english-as-a-second-language. I didn't have too much trouble
figuring it out once I switched into inference mode reading.

~~~
tormeh
I'm always in inference mode, which is what makes "Has Anyone Really Been Far
Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like?" so irritating. It
feels like you can grasp the meaning if you just think a bit harder, but it's
just linguistic trolling for people like me.

------
dogecoinbase
Here is a significantly better-written article on the same topic:
[http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2014/07/13/how-the-
other...](http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2014/07/13/how-the-other-half-
works-an-adventure-in-the-low-status-of-software-engineers/)

------
dennisnedry
This is an awful article. Not only does the author not understand the
difference between "your" and "you're", the whole thing is written from a very
negative point of view. I'd recommend for the author to get into another
industry if he feels it's "so hard".

~~~
umanwizard
The difference between "your" and "you're" has nothing to do with how
insightful the content is.

~~~
yellowapple
It does when the "insight" is about respect for programmers and professional
conduct. Frequent spelling and grammar errors do not convey a professional,
respectable impression.

------
m_t
My own form of self respect is not having to wear a polo to work.

~~~
Scuttles
Not having to, and choosing to wear a polo to work are different things.

Even if it's just on those all-day-meetings days where you interface with your
PM and other biz types...

"Don't dress for the job you have, but rather the job you want".

~~~
m_t
And the job I want let me wear whatever if feel like. Which excludes polo.

~~~
Alupis
The point of that part of the article wasn't that one must wear a polo, but
rather one must look professional if one desires to be treated as a
professional.

Wearing nice jeans and a nice button-down can be very professional looking. --
wearing torn jeans and a hoodie into a meeting... not so much.

------
eldude
Software engineering is the only trade I'm familiar with that lacks a skill-
based career progression. In most companies, it's generally expected that you
will eventually become a manager and cross over into the business side of the
house. You don't see this in other trades: doctors remain doctors, lawyers
continue to practice law, accountants continue to deal with tax returns,
etc... etc...

Even at famous Silicon Valley companies with a tech track, becoming a Staff
Engineer is a generally inferior career path compared to the title inflation
seen on the business side. Ben Horrowitz endorses this in The Hard Thing About
Hard Things when advocating that title inflation is "free" in respect to
competing companies.[1] Fortunately, it's juxtaposed with Zuckerberg's /
Facebook's title normalization, which ensure engineering titles remain
comparable with non-engineering titles.

Software engineering needs stronger leadership and career tracks that
encourage craftsmanship and mastery. Why continue in an inferior career track,
when you can start your own company and leap frog all of middle management
altogether? The value proposition simply isn't there. We need a new management
structure, one that resolves the multiple and independent types of leadership
and encourages engineers to become better engineers, and not to become
managers who don't code.

[Edit] What's really interesting is the way in which this power dynamic plays
out in most tech companies. Engineers clearly possess the upper hand, but
aren't interested in power and so are heavily placated with a pile of perks to
the resentment of others because of their lack of corresponding
responsibilities. In SV, engineers are the "talent" and everyone else
implicitly fills support roles, even PMs. This also of course creates cultural
disparities where you can make $250k/yr (including bonuses and RSUs) and work
< 40hr/wk.

[1] [http://blog.skillbridge.co/teams/unless-its-king-james-be-
wa...](http://blog.skillbridge.co/teams/unless-its-king-james-be-wary-when-
you-look-at-someones-title/)

------
borkabrak
This page is itself a poor example of the principle it's trying to expound.
Unfortunate, and especially disappointing as its an idea that I agree with.

------
lohankin
Ideal unit of software professional (officially: "resource", unofficially:
"body"), as seen by employer:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfGs2Y5WJ14](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfGs2Y5WJ14)

BTW, here you can see agile technology in action, too. The entire movie is
well worth your time.

------
vermooten
A good read - I work with managers who don't like being 'held to ransom' by
the senior experienced devs. One of the managers thinks that a pair of hands
is a pair of hands - and prefers younger enthusiastic devs to 'fat old men
with beards'. Sigh.

------
thomasloh
By the end of day, it's all about delivering substance, not style.

~~~
hyperliner
I would say "Delivering substance, while having style that does not overshadow
the substance."

------
jedanbik
Respect? Isn't this what unions are for?

------
Dewie
Well, I'd rather be treated with respect than to have a ping pong table in the
reception and a mini fridge for beers in the office (I mean, open office plan)
if I'd have to choose.

