
Freshly Squeezed: The Truth About Orange Juice in Boxes - lelf
http://civileats.com/2009/05/06/freshly-squeezed-the-truth-about-orange-juice-in-boxes/
======
cubano
Being a east central Florida native, I grew up picking Valencia's off
neighborhood trees, before the terrible canker in the 90's forced the state
agriculture office to basically bulldoze and burn every non-commercial orange
tree in the state.

IMO, the real treat is fresh squeezed _grapefruit_ juice, not orange. Fresh
grapefruit juice tastes nothing whatsoever like the stuff they sell in
markets, and has a sublime flavor that's both refreshing and delicious.

~~~
novia
>before the terrible canker in the 90's forced the state agriculture office to
basically bulldoze and burn every non-commercial orange tree in the state.

Could you elaborate more on this, or link me to a place where I can read more
about it?

~~~
jzl
Was curious about this too. A minute after some quick googling:
[https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article76614477.html](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article76614477.html)

~~~
novia
"Citrus canker was first found in the United States in 1910 not far from the
Georgia – Florida border. Subsequently, canker was discovered in 1912 in Dade
County, more than 400 mi (600 km) away. Beyond Florida, the disease was
discovered in the Gulf states and reached as far north as South Carolina. It
took more than 20 years to eradicate that outbreak of citrus canker, from 1913
through 1931, $2.5 million in state and private funds were spent to control
it—a sum equivalent to $28 million in 2000 dollars.[11] In 26 counties, some
257,745 grove trees and 3,093,110 nursery trees were destroyed by burning.
Citrus canker was detected again on the Gulf Coast of Florida in 1986 and
declared eradicated in 1994.

The most recent outbreak of citrus canker was discovered in Miami, Dade
County, Florida, on Sept. 28, 1995, by Louis Willio Francillon, a Florida
Department of Agriculture agronomist. Despite eradication attempts, by late
2005, the disease had been detected in many places distant from the original
discovery, for example, in Orange Park, 315 miles (500 km) away. In January
2000, the Florida Department of Agriculture adopted a policy of removing all
infected trees and all citrus trees within a 1900-ft radius of an infected
tree in both residential areas and commercial groves. Previous to this
eradication policy, the department eradicated all citrus trees within 125 ft
of an infected one. The program ended in January 2006 following a statement
from the USDA that eradication was not feasible"

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citrus_canker](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citrus_canker)

~~~
jjeaff
Funny, I was picture a terrible old crony in government as the "canker" that
made everyone bulldoze their non-commercial trees.

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NoblePublius
The real story here is not that Tropicana is chemically adulterated fruit-
derived sugar water produced and stored at industrial scale. The real story is
that the USDA lets PepsiCo call this product “juice” even though it’s
nutritionally indistinguishable from Coca Cola.

~~~
p1necone
Even freshly squeezed orange juice with no additives is almost nutritionally
indistinguishable from Coca Cola.

~~~
thaumasiotes
In Shanghai, I found a vending machine offering fresh-squeezed orange juice.
The front of the machine was a window, so after buying a juice you could watch
as a few oranges were rolled into a press and crushed. Then you got a sealed
cup with the juice in it.

The juice had barely any orange flavor at all. I concluded that fresh-squeezed
orange juice is overwhelmingly just water.

This suggests that it is in fact distinguishable from Coca Cola.

~~~
massivecali
Trader Joes used to have 2 machines in the late 80s which were Fresh Peanut
Butter and Orange Juice. Both machines ground the ingredients fresh on demand.
Peanut butter went into little tupperware like containers. OJ went into jugs.
It seems all current commenters who might frequent TJs are too young to have
experienced these things. The biting tart flavor of fresh squeezed OJ is often
what is attempted to be imitated by homestyle or tart labels. Trader joes non
pasteurized is still not the same flavor.

~~~
atombender
A lot of grocery stores (Whole Foods comes to mind) have a self-serve machine
in the grocery department that squeezes fresh oranges into a plastic bottle
for you: [http://c8.alamy.com/comp/JT6NJ6/self-served-orange-juicer-
fr...](http://c8.alamy.com/comp/JT6NJ6/self-served-orange-juicer-fresh-
squeezed-orange-juice-machine-at-the-JT6NJ6.jpg).

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edoo
Juiced fruits should be considered the same as full sugar soda and self
regulated as such.

~~~
ZeroFries
Except fruit juice has health benefits soda doesn't have. Fruit > juice >
soda, and the gap between juice and soda is probably as high or higher than
fruit and juice.

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4045306/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4045306/)
[https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100330151949.h...](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100330151949.htm)
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3519311/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3519311/)

~~~
edoo
The problem is the sugar load. No amount of nutritional value can justify it.
You can get those nutrients elsewhere without the insulin response.

~~~
throwaway415415
I hear that a lot in the US (never elsewhere), but the only people in bad
shape are those who abuse fat food and sodas. I’ve never seen anyone obese
from drinking too much fruit juice alone.

~~~
edoo
It is not abuse, it is biochemistry. Your body is extremely efficient at
absorbing carbs because in nature they only appear mostly encapsulated in
fiber which gates their abortion. If you absorb a large amount of sugar your
body has to immediately turn it to fat with insulin or you die. This results
in a situation where you have met your caloric needs for the day but you will
get very hungry again even though you met your needs. Most people can't deal
with that and succumb to the natural desire to eat. The high sugar loading
destroys your satiety mechanisms.

~~~
cheesymuffin
Your post is very well-written, but fructose does not affect insulin. Fructose
is absorbed directly in the gut and converted to starch in the liver.

I don't want to stop the anti-carb echo chamber, though, because it's helped a
lot of people.

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
This doesn't sound right.

The Wikipedia entry for fructose[1] has this to say:

 _Excessive consumption of fructose may contribute to insulin resistance,
obesity, elevated LDL cholesterol and triglycerides, leading to metabolic
syndrome, type 2 diabetes and cardiovascular disease._

So it would appear fructose does cause an insulin response.

However, it then goes on to say:

 _Uptake of fructose_ by the liver _is not regulated by insulin. However,
insulin is capable of increasing the abundance and functional activity of
GLUT5 in skeletal muscle cells._ (emphasis mine)

 _GLUT5 is also expressed in skeletal muscle,testis, kidney, fat tissue
(adipocytes), and brain._ [2]

1\.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose)

2\. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLUT5](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLUT5)

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WiseWeasel
(2009), and doesn’t seem to differentiate flash-pasteurized options like
Odwalla and Costco’s brand, which have a taste much closer to fresh-squeezed.
I’m guessing those products omit the deoxygenation and flavor enhancement
described.

~~~
throwaway415415
Didn’t someone died drinking odwalla because of exactly this?

~~~
rsync
"Following the E.coli outbreak, an outbreak that was caused by Odwalla not
following proper sanitary procedures that caused the death of at least one
child, Odwalla adopted flash pasteurization and other sanitization
procedures."

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odwalla](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odwalla)

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dawnerd
I grew up on a small orange farm in SoCal and have never heard of a
Californian saying Florida oranges were better. We could get almost year round
oranges locally so I’m not really sure why the author would inject that
Californians would say Florida is better. We also grew navels and valencias.
The navels were amazing for fresh juice if you drink it right away.

If you really want to treat yourself, go find some Ojai pixies. So delish.

~~~
Aloha
Fresh oranges are good no matter where they are grown.

I too grew up in SoCal and remember eating backyard grown oranges as a kid -
nothing is better than a fresh orange, I dont bother with boxed juice most of
the time, I'd rather eat the fruit.

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pvaldes
> But Navels have a lackluster flavor compared to the Valencia

I disagree with that. Valencia was a good old variety from the 'blancas' group
of oranges, but is not the best variety. There are even better Valencia
oranges (the newer "Valencia seedless " delta and midnight varieties for
example). And many navels score higher for taste also than Valencia.

~~~
oska
Yes, where I'm from (Australia) navel oranges are considered the premium
eating orange.

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tfolbrecht
I'm fortunate to live by local Florida orange growers. Nothing like juice made
from Valencia Oranges.

The economics of Oranges and juice are fascinating. In Florida, we had a major
outbreak of citrus canker that made most of the oranges grown here unsuitable
for sale by USDA standards (still safe for consumption). So, off to the juice
factory to be stored in those massive vats.

~~~
HillaryBriss
interesting. in SoCal there are a lot of urban citrus trees growing amongst
the houses and apartments, including Valencia oranges. most of the time, the
oranges are a bit on the tart side, but there are some sweet ones here and
there. IDK what makes the difference. maybe sun exposure on the tree, or more
cold weather in a given year. in any case, i'm surprised at how many go to
waste.

... which leads to my question: what happened with all the citrus greening
disease in Florida? i heard it had destroyed a lot of trees. have they found a
good way to combat that?

~~~
01100011
Sweet citrus needs heat. You can grow sweeter fruit farther from the coast. If
you're near the coast, plant it in an area that collects heat.

Citrus needs a lot of fertilizer. I finally did the calculations one year and
I was astounded at how much nitrogen I needed to apply. Once I did, I got
amazing yields. Micronutrients are important too, but man, that nitrogen. In
socal, stick to an acidifying source like ammonium sulfate or cottonseed
hulls.

~~~
pvaldes
Some Citrus are much hardier than another. Tangerines, the fruit that gave its
sweetness to oranges are much hardier (orange is an hybrid, it does not exist
in nature).

Grapefruits suffer even more with cold than oranges

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evo_9
It's interesting the degree to which people will defend their fruit juice
drinking in this thread. I wonder if it's a mild form of addiction.

I used to drink a lot of OJ when I was still under the illusion it was healthy
to do so. Simply stopping that I lost about 15 pounds without changing
anything else. It was tough at first, I really craved it and it was a daily
habit. It's turned out to be the biggest health improvement I've made in
recent years.

~~~
theNJR
It’s crazy the number of really smart people who are steadfast in their belief
that fruit is good. It’s non-stop propangda starting at birth, direct from the
mothers mouth.

I wonder where this meme started and why? I cant imagine ‘big fruit’ is that
big or sinister.

~~~
dragonwriter
> I cant imagine ‘big fruit’ is that big or sinister.

Are you familiar with the phrase “banana republic” and it's origin?

Big fruit is, historically, not any less sinister than big oil, and, while
less influential, powerful enough to be a major international force, and drive
wars and major power policy.

~~~
theNJR
Wow, yes, good point.

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fma
I grew up in the US, but my wife, inlaws did not. I have a daughter, who is
only 2. Sams Club started offering juicing at the store last year. You see
them fill up a machine w/ oranges and it cuts, grinds, and does whatever...and
out comes fresh juice.

Maybe me having grown up on American sugary substance, my palate has gotten
worse. But my wife, inlaws definitely prefer the fresh one when I do a blind
taste test. Me...I'm just like meh, no difference, just get me the box one
(which is like 1/3rd the cost). My 2 year old...that's the only one she'd
drink. She did not touch the box juice before, and I was surprised she liked
the fresh one, and asked for more.

~~~
vanderZwan
> _Maybe me having grown up on American sugary substance, my palate has gotten
> worse._

Serious question: how is your sense of smell?

~~~
fma
My smell is pretty good. Taste...meh.

Example: Things that my wife feel is salty, like can soup, I don't give a
second thought to.

~~~
vanderZwan
Hmm, well that's quite interesting then, because the ability to notice nuanced
flavours should have more to do with the _smell_ of food than whether the
taste buds are desensitized or not.

If your sense of smell is still good, it is very likely that you _do_ taste
all of these things, and the problem is more one of attention. The simple
thing to do is to train that. Simply eating more slowly and trying to focus on
what you smell when chewing should already make the flavours noticeable to the
brain. It is easier if your nose does not have to "compete for attention" with
the other senses, so closing your eyes will help, as will being in a noise-
free environment.

As for the taste, if you don't notice salty soup your taste buds are indeed
likely t obe desensitized. But even if you "grew up" on food too rich in salt
and sugar, that not a permanent thing. You could try a kind of "taste
detoxing" month - reducing salt/sugar intake to essentials for a while by
setting strict rules to what kinds of sugars are allowed. It's hard for
various reasons, but it works - WheezyWaiter made a very entertaining and IMO
"neutral" video showing his experience trying it[0].

So you should be able to address both if you want. I recommend it! In general,
getting in touch with one's senses is an enriching and fun experience (not
just for tasting food).

[0]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBtslkL5nUA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBtslkL5nUA)

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everybodyknows
Good advice, as far as it goes:

>try something new for breakfast: a whole Florida Valencia orange ...

Usual way to do this is to slice into wedges and bite against the inside of
the peel, leaving much of the pulp attached.

An easier, less wasteful way: Using a sharp, heavy knife, slice patches off
both stem and blossom ends, down to the pulp. Halve along the equator and lay
equator-side down on a cutting board. Now "shave" off patches of the peel with
short downward strokes, rotating the orange half frequently to maintain an
easy cutting angle.

Finish by cutting into bite-size pieces, and grab yourself a fork. Squeeze a
fresh Key lime over the top, for extra flavor complexity.

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x15
If you haven't tried fresh carrot juice, you don't know what you're missing.

I got myself this cheap machine for that purpose:

[https://duckduckgo.com/?q=mean+juice+machine&t=chromeos&iax=...](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=mean+juice+machine&t=chromeos&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.bidorbuy.co.za%2Fuser_images%2F727%2F1116727%2F1116727_130421213643_IMG_4197.jpg)

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projektfu
If you can get your hands on a pineapple orange, they are truly Florida’s
finest IMHO. Also they were synonymous with juice oranges in earlier times
before they switched to Valencia oranges. Unfortunately the trees are very
susceptible to disease, or so I hear.

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ValentineC
Probably still rings true in 2019, but I think it should have a (2009) tag
behind the title.

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agumonkey
is the industrial food era about to fade ?

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amelius
Offtopic. I recently bought a juicer. But turns out that after drinking one
glass of fresh orange juice, my face turns pale, and I start sweating. It's
nothing serious (I hope), but curious if anyone can recognize/explain this
phenomenon? I have no such effect when eating large amounts of sugar. And I
have no known allergies (recently tested in the hospital for another issue).

~~~
Y-bar
Possibly stupid question: Did you thoroughly clean and wash the juicer first?
Might have been some residue from manufacturing.

~~~
wolfi1
also not to forget the insecticide residues on the oranges themselves

