

WakeMate (YC S09) Shipping Delayed  - dwynings
http://druwynings.com/wakemate-shipping-delayed

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kilian
Wakemate is really handling this situation poorly. Yes, delays due to hardware
are a good reason. But introducing pay-for features as compensation for those
delays is not.

It seems that this is a classic case of engineers doing bizdev. Those two have
virtually no overlap. For example, "I'm really sorry you feel this way" is the
equivalent of "quit whining" and you should _never_ say that to anyone unless
you actually mean "quit whining".

Bizdev is hard. I got bitten by it hard when I started my company. Nowadays,
each mail me and colleagues send get meticulously checked by the others, and
any bullshitting gets taken out. I think they would do good to do something
similar. Let me know how it works ;-)

~~~
bhousel
Good point, this is one of the things that always bothers me too.

Real apologies don't start with "I'm sorry that you.." Real apologies start
with "I'm sorry that I.."

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maxklein
I want my money back, and I'm going to request it till they do. I feel cheated
- fitbit is shipping, and what the hell is this bullshit about premium
analytics?! When I pre-ordered there was no indication that there was going to
be a monthly fee - and now they are delayed and can't even say when it will
appear. And they are talking of MONTHS of delay?

I was really impressed when I first saw the company, but my mood has swung the
other way entirely. I do not think they ever had a product to begin with. I
want my $5 back and my fitbit will only cost $94 and not $99.

YCS09? That's more than 10 months ago. If they can't ship till now, then they
will be slow and not add any features to match the competition. Sorry, but if
you are in a business with good competitors and you have already collected
your customers money, you just don't do this.

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spydertennis
I'm really sorry you feel that way. Of course if you want your money back we
have no problem refunding your 5 dollars.

We've developed some great premium features in addition to the existing
product. The main features are still free.

We're working really hard to get the product out. It's difficult to launch
quickly and iterate with hardware and we want the product to be amazing. I can
promise that it will definitely be worth the wait!

~~~
sigh400
"I'm really sorry you feel that way. Of course if you want your money back we
have no problem refunding your 5 dollars."

Wow, this comes across as bitter and nasty. How about:

"I am really sorry you feel that way let us refund your money," or the like.
Seriously. Your previous comment is such bad business just based on how
demeaning it comes across. Better yet:

"I am really sorry you feel that way let us refund your money. However, we've
developed some great premium features that you may be interested in; and of
course our the main features are free. Can we convince you otherwise?"

~~~
gommm
I would take the "you feel that way" out and replace it by:

"I'm sorry with our miscommunication, let us refund you your money. However,
we've developed some great premium features that you may be interested in; and
of course our the main features are free. Can we convince you otherwise?"

"I'm sorry you feel that way" makes it seems that it's the customer's fault
and not their fault, it's demeaning to the customer.

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sounddust
I think they should give the premium features to those of us who pre-ordered,
for free, permanently.

It wouldn't cost them anything extra to do so (maybe a few dollars/year in
server costs for the entire pre-order userbase). Sure, they will lose
potential subscriber costs for some pre-order customers, but if they can't
sell enough WakeMates to make the pre-order crowd an insignificant blip, then
they are not going to be able to succeed anyway. Furthermore, the pre-order
crowd is the group you really, really want to be happy. They are going to be
the first to give their impressions to the world, and those
tweets/reviews/blog posts are going to be at the top of Google's search
results for near-infinity.

I feel like a pre-order was a commitment to Wakemate, and they are not
honoring their side in expecting us to pay more to fully utilize the product.
They can say that the premium model has features in addition to what was
initially planned, but I think that anyone who planned to buy the product
expected the free service to improve and add features over time anyway, so it
seems that effort is instead being redirected to the premium version.

~~~
gizmo
Exactly, I expected the web version to improve over time, and I expected (and
was fully willing) to pay for a better and improved wakemate down the road
(better battery life, smaller, etc).

Having to pay for both hardware upgrades and for monthly analytics... that
seems a bit much.

Also the WakeMate marketing message is disingenuous: "Limited quantity,
reserve today" it says on the front page, which indicates that the WakeMate
device actually exist. From the email they sent this morning it's clear that
they accepted "thousands" of pre-orders and that the device was still in the
concept phase (otherwise they could never make all those changes to the
design/internals).

How a company acts in the first few months is generally a pretty good
indicator of how the company is going to turn out. Maybe I should get out
while I can.

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lonestar
Perhaps they should have announced the monthly fees before the delay. I'm more
than a little disappointed to find out that I'm not getting it on time, and
that I might unexpectedly have to pay a monthly fee once it does ship.

~~~
asb
They've answered this concern on Twitter:

"all the planned features are still free! we've developed some new awesome
premium features that we're planning on charging for."

<http://twitter.com/wakemate/status/8102380070>

~~~
maxklein
This is pissing me off more and more. How do I know that these "premium"
features are not the actual features that I want? They may just give me the
bare minimum, and since I already invested $50, they now try to squeeze more
money out of me by withholding the good stuff.

Tell me this stuff before you make me pre-order. Let me be aware what I am
getting into. I thought that the hardware is what you pay for, and the website
and all awesome upgrades would be free. But it seems the hardware is just the
entry ticket, then they will do the usual - premium, solo, business bullshit
to try to make me pay them $99 a month or whatever.

This is bullcrap, and I feel it is dishonest marketing. I would not be pissed
off if they just asked me to put my email on a list. But they asked me to give
then $5! Then turn around and stab me in the back. No, I don't want your
product anymore.

When I give you money, we have entered into a very different kind of
relationship, and you have given me the right to get pissed off about you and
complain on the internet.

~~~
teej
The negative tone in this thread is incredibly out of character of Hacker
News. What happened to civility?

If you have a problem with the way they handled these delays, I can
understand. Getting delayed -sucks- and getting a crappy response sucks worse.
It reminds me of dealing with airlines - they already have my money and can't
manage to give me a straight answer.

But please consider giving these guys a break. Hardware is hard! It's a
delicate balance between software and electrical engineers. You can't avoid
outsourcing production - a process that's hard to manage for cost and quality
standards. You don't just hack a site over a weekend and go from there. It
takes tons of planning and lots of risks. It is not easy.

If you don't like it, at least give them the benefit of common curtesy. Email
them sternly and politely and request your money back. Problem solved.

~~~
maxklein
You know why I'm harsh now? Because this is just a small community. They are
dealing with a mass-market product - if they discover the things that piss off
customers now, they will know better how to do things in the future.

Yes, hardware is hard, but if you coddle a business then it will grow in
expectancy that things will just fall in their lap. They made a serious
mistake - it annoys me, and I'm telling them. If they think that _I_ am wrong
for saying my opinion, then they will repeat the mistake and they will piss
off more customers that way.

I was really really a big fan of their approach when they launched. But they
fucked it up. They did something wrong, and because they belong to this
community, we could pat them on the back and say - oh you'll do better next
time - but the customers do not belong to this community. The customers don't
give a shit who YC or PG are, all they know is this same feeling I am feeling
now. And they will convey the same impression to their friends, other
potential customers.

WakeMate is not launching a new concept. They are entering a market with
established competitors. They need some tough love, because they just played
bad with their greatest asset.

Their greatest asset is the fact that they have a direct line to the early
adopter community, through this site and through the YC program. This social
network is what they can use to leapfrog over competition. Apart from that,
they have little compared to FitBit and others.

If they mess with their core advantage, people have to let them know. There
HAS to be a negative tone so that they know they fucked up. If we are all nice
and dandy, then they will merrily go on whistling down the road till they
discover that the cliff started a few steps back.

They fucked up. I am angry. I am communicating this to them, so that they know
how what they did makes their customers feel.

If you feel it is not neccessary to communicate this to them, then it is you
doing them a disservice.

~~~
daleharvey
you have implied that they lied about ever having a product and that their
company is falling apart behind the scenes because their shipping was delayed
and mentioned they have premium features. both of which I think everyone
expected anyway.

I dont think they announced their premium stuff in the best way, but you went
well past the stage of giving constructive advice, or "tough love"

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Frazzydee
A couple questions:

1) The phones listed are iPhone, Blackberry, Android, Windows mobile, Palm &
non-smart phone. Which category does symbian fall under?

I have already been informed by email that there will be a s60 app.

2) Premium analytics?? I was under the impression that the entire analysis
would be made available as a service that came with the device.

The site, as far as I can tell, does not mention that some of the analysis is
only available on a subscription basis in addition to the initial purchase
price.

~~~
lanstein
In order to compensate for this delay, we will be giving everyone who pre-
ordered one month of Premium Analytics Features FREE for EACH month their
delivery is delayed.

EACH month? That doesn't bode well...

~~~
plinkplonk
"EACH month? That doesn't bode well..."

Yes but otoh

"We've tentatively planned for the first batch of WakeMates to be shipped as
early as next month, but we'll keep you updated every step of the way. The
next message we'll be sending out will include when you are getting your
WakeMate and a link to finalize your purchase."

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csmeder
Their web site still says "Limited quantity, reserve today! Pay $5 now and the
rest when it ships. (Expected ship date 1/25/10)"

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seldo
I realized when I got this email this evening that I have pre-ordered _both_
the WakeMate and the FitBit. When I get both I shall have to run side-by-side
feature comparisons, seeing as I've blown the money already anyway...

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jpcx01
Was excited about WakeMate, so much so that I ended up just buying a Zeo. Been
using it as an alarm clock for about a month now, and gotta say, its
incredible. It basically wakes you up every morning when it detects you are
already in light sleep. Been a big morning changer for me since I started
using it.

If WakeMate can provide anything close to Zeo for what they're charging (much
much less), I think they'll do well.

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evilrob666fm
Just been chatting with the WakeMate guys via the new instant message feature
on their website - they've pledged to give these "premium" features to all
preorder customers for free for life to make up for their crappy email today.

<http://www.twitpic.com/zfv9q>

~~~
jm2t
Yeah, talked with them and told me the same. Shipping will be starting like at
th end of february, BUT free LIFETIME premium!

Even if premium was 5$/month, you could save over 700$ in 5 years, not to tell
in a lifetime.

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FreeRadical
I thought the benefit of wakemate versus other similar gadgets was the price.
When premium features are included, does it really win on price?

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asnyder
I wonder why I didn't get this e-mail. I pre-ordered one some time ago.

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durana
I pre-ordered the product and I did not receive this e-mail either. I forget
the exact options relating to e-mail that I selected during the Google
Checkout process, but I either chose not to disclose my e-mail address to the
seller or I did not opt in for e-mails from the seller. I'm guessing you did
the same and that's why we didn't receive the e-mail.

If one of the WakeMate guys read this, it would be good to post this on the
blog or main website so people who did not get the e-mail can still get the
information directly from WakeMate and fill out the questionnaire.

~~~
unn
Yeah I agree, I didn't get this email and I was frantically checking their
blog, which looks dead, and their website, which hasn't changed to reflect
anything said in the email.

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mototog
I never even received a status delay email from WakeMate. I had to learn about
it on TechCrunch.

As a matter of fact, in checking my email archive, I've had NO communication
from WakeMate. The only thing I have is my Paypal receipt for my deposit. And
I see that now they have switched to Google Checkout for payment processing.

As an early adopter, have I slipped through a crack?

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ig1
Sending customers to a blog which hasn't been updated for two months for more
information probably isn't the best idea either...

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jmtame
looking forward to it! thanks for the update guys

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dnsworks
This makes me wonder, has there ever been a successful YC company like
WakeMate, ie that was more than just a web application? Maybe it's just a
problem of WM having teamed up with an ill-suited process?

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cmos
This is well written. And the free membership into the premier club is a great
low cost way of rewarding people. Making hardware is freakin difficult, and
the margins are always thinner than you want in the beginning.

