

Graphic content of Cambridge University law exam stuns students - stfu
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/10094492/Graphic-content-of-Cambridge-University-law-exam-stuns-students.html

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cafard
Is anyone else taken aback by the expression "graphic" here? How about
"explicitly violent"?

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yoster
Seriously? I guess it is a shocker for them when they have been living
sheltered lives with a silver spoon put in their mouth. Unless they have been
living in a bubble for most of their lives... This is nowhere near graphic.
They are going to be lawyers and they think this is graphic? Well, these
people are going to get a reality check when they get hired as lawyers.

~~~
ColinWright
Not everyone who goes to Cambridge has/had a sheltered life, and not everyone
had "a silver spoon put in their mouth." Your characterization of Cambridge
students is somewhat offensive, and definitely inaccurate.

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yoster
You sound like you have also had a sheltered life as well! These people better
stay far away as possible from public service as they WILL be experiencing far
worse than this. When they get exposed to cases with child molesters, family
violence, and even more heinous crimes, they better stick to corporate law or
something similar. My assessment IS accurate of you though.

~~~
ColinWright
Yes, no doubt if they end up practising law they will meet things that are
significantly worse than they have already encountered, and almost certainly
significantly worse than they have personally experienced.

However, there's a difference between meeting these things in practise, and
meeting these things in an exam. There is such a thing as context, and meeting
things you regard as inappropriate to the current context can be rather
shocking.

I agree with you entirely that, supposing they go on to practise in the
relevant areas, they will meet things that are truly vile. But not all will,
and when being examined on one's knowledge of law, one might not be expecting
to meet things that are rather unpleasant.

Personally I think it's a good thing that they are exposed to these sorts of
things in an examination. When practising law they will be expected to perform
even when personally discomposed. Having an examination that tests that
ability is a good thing, although separating the effect of that from the
ability to recall information and form an argument might be difficult. Maybe
that isn't necessary.

    
    
        > My assessment IS accurate of you though.
    

Hmm. I'm pleased for you that you know everything, must make life so much
easier.

~~~
yoster
Well, I didn't mean to act like an ass, but you know as well as I do that this
is a joke. Adults that are shocked at this is actually pretty stupid. If let's
say a minor read this and was shocked, then well that would be completely
understandable. Sorry to say, most colleges do have hazing issues and rampant
rapes. You might not be exposed to it, but for students this day and age, many
are aware.

~~~
ColinWright
Two things.

Firstly, it would be interesting to know what the actual proportion is of
colleges that have "hazing issues and rampant rapes." I'm sure it varies
country by country, university by university, and so on. (Remember, at
Cambridge (which is where this conversation started) there are colleges within
the university. For example, Trinity and Peterhouse are separate colleges of
Cambridge University). I'm sure it also varies with clubs, societies, and
years. I joined many clubs/societies at Cambridge, and never once was exposed
to any kind of hazing, not to any behavior that I thought was socially
inappropriate sex-wise. (Which is not to say I'm unaware or sheltered. Given
other contexts in my life, I almost certainly would have been aware, had it
been present.)

Secondly, being aware of such issues in the social context is usually, and
some would argue should remain, separate from the material in an exam. As a
math PhD I would have been shocked to discover the "word problem" setting of a
question involving hazing and/or rape issues, even though some questions would
lend themselves to such a setting.

    
    
        > Adults that are shocked at this is
        > actually pretty stupid.
    

Adults that are shocked that such things happen might be ignorant and/or, but
they are not necessarily stupid. To claim that such things _ought_ to be on an
exam, or are a natural setting for questions on an exam simply because they
are "rampant" is an interesting position to take, and one that it seems you
are not far from.

~~~
yoster
I know MANY fucking brilliantly minded people that are socially fucking
stupid. First off, I have never made the claim that such things ought to be on
an exam, or are a natural setting for questions on an exam simply because they
are "rampant". Stop putting fucking words in my mouth. You seem very sheltered
in your location as RAPE happens everywhere. Name one university that is RAPE
free that is co-ed. Many go unreported which compounds the issue. I am sure
when you went to school hundreds of years ago with your clubs/socities that
you were not exposed. You seem like a fucking dinosaur honestly as the related
articles in there show your school has many issues with sexism and such.

~~~
ColinWright
Wow. I mean, just, wow.

Still, I'll try to answer you fully.

    
    
      > I know MANY fucking brilliantly minded people that are
      > socially fucking stupid.
    

Yes, absolutely, and certainly in some subjects more than others. In
particular, in my subject more than most.

    
    
      > First off, I have never made the claim that such things
      > ought to be on an exam, or are a natural setting for
      > questions on an exam simply because they are "rampant".
    

And yet you claim that no one should be shocked when they come across such
things. So you're saying that no one should be shocked, and yet it shouldn't
happen. So now I don't know what it is you're saying.

This is what I'm saying: it is reasonable even for people who know full well
what really goes on to be shocked to find them the subject of a question in a
law exam paper.

    
    
      > Stop putting fucking words in my mouth.
    

I'm just trying to point out how what you're saying can be read. If you say no
one should be shocked by seeing this sort of thing in an exam, that people who
are shocked are stupid, ignorant, or both, then it seems that you are saying
it is quite reasonable for such things to be on an exam.

Are you now saying it's not reasonable for such things to be on an exam? If
it's not reasonable, then why shouldn't people be shocked when it happens?

    
    
      > You seem very sheltered in your location as RAPE happens
      > everywhere.
    

Well, going all technical on you, it doesn't happen everywhere, because, for
example, it doesn't happen in my house. Now I know that's not what you meant,
but it does you no service to go all hyperbolic.

Being more reasonable, I'm sure it happens more than I personally see, because
I personally have never seen it. I've seen many, many reports, but it's never
happened where I would experience it. Maybe I'm lucky, maybe I'm selective,
who knows.

But I do know it happens. To claim I am sheltered just because I haven't been
directly exposed to it seems a little extreme, but if that's what you think,
fine. Call me sheltered, without actually knowing what I am actually aware of.
I think you're jumping to conclusions based on very little evidence.

Read again what I wrote - I'm not denying it happens, and I'm not even denying
that it's rampant. I am saying that I know it doesn't happen EVERYWHERE and to
EVERYONE, because it didn't happen to me. I've also had some pretty frank
conversations with people I know, and while it did happen to some, I know it
didn't happen to them all.

It happens, I know. I never said otherwise.

    
    
      > Name one university that is RAPE free that is co-ed.
    

Now that is stupid. You know it's impossible for me to do that - how is such a
demand advancing your cause? Leave aside your unnecessary restriction to co-ed
institutions.

    
    
      > Many go unreported which compounds the issue.
    

Absolutely.

    
    
      > I am sure when you went to school hundreds of years ago
      > with your clubs/societies that you were not exposed. You
      > seem like a fucking dinosaur honestly as the related
      > articles in there show your school has many issues with
      > sexism and such.
    

It is true that I went to school hundreds of years ago, but I'm pretty sure
I'm human, and therefore can't be a dinosaur.

However ...

I'm sure Cambridge, as does every other university, has massive problems with
drinking, rape, sexism, and all sorts of undesirable and downright illegal,
immoral, and unacceptable behavior. I'm also pretty sure it hasn't changed all
that much, and that it was as bad, if not worse, back hundreds of years ago
when I was there.

However, the point where this started was your claim that people are stupid to
be shocked to have these sorts of things in exam papers, which you then seem
to contradict later. So in short, apart from insulting me, and swearing at me,
I don't really see what you're trying to say.

