
Tell your ISP to stop retaining your data - vrikis
https://www.openrightsgroup.org/campaigns/tell-your-isp-to-stop-retaining-your-data
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DrJokepu
I'm with Andrews & Arnold. I won't need to tell them anything because I know
they take my privacy very seriously. They're the best ISP I've ever dealt
with.

~~~
vrikis
I did consider switching to them, but the plan I looked at (Fiber to the
cabinet and a higher 200GB download cap) comes in at £50 + (as far as I'm
aware) BT line rental, so around £66/month... My BT bill for the above is
around £40... Do you think it's worth the extra £26 ish for peace and mind?
Are they really that much better than other ISPs? Thanks for the info!

EDIT: Ignore my comment, after reading up on them a bit more, they do seem
like a pretty amazing ISP. Thanks for reminding me of them :)

~~~
rwmj
That's pretty much the A&A plan that I have, and I think it's worth it _for
me_. This is a case where you get what you pay for, and I both need an
excellent level of service (because I depend on my ISP for work) and can
afford to pay for it. The equation would be different for other, say, casual
users or people on tight budgets.

Also ... IPv6 just works, and I have a /48 assignment.

~~~
barrkel
A&A doesn't supply enough bandwidth for our home (including work from home)
use, at least on their pricing page.

On a 5Mbps line, our average monthly usage was about 300G/month, according to
router statistics.

Now that we're on BT FTTC at 76Mbps (rate to nearest speedtest.net when
there's no contention), I wouldn't like to guess the usage, but I'd estimate
over 1TB a month at least. The BT provided router resets its count every 30
minutes or so, and I've not yet put my own routing box in the middle, so I
don't know exactly.

Both my GF and I stream a lot of HD video, and I mirror a number of
repositories every week. That video is a lot more HD now, and there's far less
need to ever turn it off, since it doesn't significantly affect other users.

A more feasible approach would be to combine A&A with BT, and switch depending
on reliability vs bulk requirements, but that would require a level of systems
administration I'd want to be compensated for.

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harty65
I work for one of the ISPs in question as an Analyst and work is in progress
to stop the storing of certain data after a certain time period.

The main reason for holding call data is for billing purposes, no e-mail
information has ever been stored (other than in customer's own inboxes and
sent items in their e-mail accounts). All browsing data is anonymised and only
used for optimisation purposes.

Hundreds of thousands of pounds are spent annually on data storage, it’s
welcoming that there is now a reason to reduce the amount of useless data we
hold.

~~~
omh
Can you clarify what you mean by "browsing data"? I understand why some data
could be useful for debugging, but it's the DPI-style data that I'm most
concerned about. I'd assumed that it would be too expensive for ISPs to bother
collecting it if they weren't legally obliged to.

~~~
harty65
So information is collected regarding what IP addresses are accessed from our
network, it isn't traceable back to customer accounts (in its usual form
anyway, I’m sure if some data forensics people got hold of it they could maybe
do something, but that’s outside my scope of knowledge) this information is
used to improve customer experience and reduce network traffic.

For example, in 2012-2013 almost 40% of traffic on our Network was Youtube
related, not just streaming, Youtube specifically! Obviously millions of these
requests are going to be for the exact same video, say for example Gangnam
Style. So instead of us pulling the data from Youtube every time a user
requests that particular video we store that video on our Network, so when a
user requests it (even for the first time), it actually comes from us. All my
company needs to do is check for any changes to the specific page. The result
is a better customer experience (faster streaming) but also far less network
traffic (this literally saves millions).

Without the storing of IP addresses accessed we wouldn't have the information
needed to determine what sites/data we should be cashing and what we don’t
need to bother with and this sort of thing would be considerably harder to
pull off.

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ZenPro
UK ISP have probably the best track record in the world when it comes to
defending their customers data and rights.

They have fought the Government and the Judiciary at every juncture to ensure
net neutrality.

Where legally compelled to do so; the interpret the law in the absolute
narrowest sense of the ruling.

I would be loathe to suggest they can do more. I trust my ISP more than I
trust most people.

There are a ton if links I could produce but am on a mobile device. A simple
Google search regarding Sky, TalkTalk et al will yield the case history and
lobbying for privacy.

~~~
ajb
While this may look like bitching at ISPs, I think it's just recognising that
they can only really go into bat for their customers if we actually show we
care. Otherwise they might as well do what the government asks and get on with
their business.

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perlgeek
Germany has a very similar problem. By law, the ISPs are only allowed to store
user-identifiable information for billing purposes. When you have a flat rate
(and nearly everybody has), there's no reason whatsoever to store any IPs, and
yet they are stored for at least two weeks.

I wish somebody would do something about that.

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jackweirdy
Can anyone evidence the claim that Virgin Media record internet access in line
with the EU DRD? I tweeted them about it but they said they don't, and while
I'm sure that's wrong I can't find a source that names them explicitly.

~~~
vrikis
Virgin Media have replied to some users already - here's the email (copied
from the Open Rights Group blog post[1])

Virgin Media's response says: “...We have also been in contact with government
and with the Information Commissioner's Office following the ruling and the UK
government's current position is that although the Directive was held to be
invalid, our own Data Retention Regulations are still in force and we must
comply with them until such time as they are struck down by a UK court.”

[1] [https://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog/2014/data-retention-
why...](https://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog/2014/data-retention-why-we-have-
to-keep-the-pressure-on-isps)

~~~
jackweirdy
Thanks!

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luxpir
While we're recommending alternative ISPs in the UK, here's a nod to Fast[1].
UK-based support, no filtering or other obstruction, even remaining polite and
understanding when I inadvertently took down a large portion of their network
for the afternoon. Competitively priced FTTC (I'm on a £22/m 40/10 offer - now
expired) including cheap no-frills line-rental.

I remain very interested in A&A but by comparison I have all I need for now
with Fast. A&A have my full support (fwiw) in their vocalisation of tech-
community concerns and I hope Fast can follow suit.

[1] - [http://www.fast.co.uk](http://www.fast.co.uk)

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nextw33k
Sky replied saying that the UK Data Retention law takes precedent to the
European ruling.

Their T&C state they keep data for 12 months.

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Spearchucker
Amusing. I mailed BT (ukdataretention@bt.com) and got an out of office reply.

