
Dopamine Fasting - sajid
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/07/style/dopamine-fasting.html
======
wccrawford
Reading through this, it identifies something that I've seen a lot of people
say is a problem, and suggests that the way to solve the problem is simply
_don 't do it sometimes, on a schedule_.

While that may help, you've basically dedicated a portion of your life to not
enjoying your life.

Instead, I've taken a different tack. I've chosen to do those addictive things
less, but instead of not-doing-fun-things, I do fun things that are at least
somewhat productive.

For me, that's making something or learning a new skill, usually in order to
make something. Programming, woodworking, drawing, etc. Even just putting
together Lego or Metal Earth figurines, though it's harder to justify them as
"productive" rather than just fun.

I still play video games. But I don't play those mobile games with the "gacha"
mechanics. It's not that I don't enjoy them, but that I realize they take over
my life and are not productive at all. At all.

It's not at all easy to kick these bad habits this way, but it's way better
than "dopamine fasting", IMO.

~~~
anbotero
You expect too much from the same people that complains about the simplest of
things.

Yours is the most down to earth approach to these _issues_. No need to look
for an extreme, or fast solution (which I think is what drives these things;
no data to back it up). Just some dedication and moderation.

I don’t really like exercising, yet I try to find excuses to walk to the
supermarket or to work (half an hour). I don’t really like drinking, much less
destroying myself in the process, yet I enjoy the moments I share with my
friends and drink in moderation... but very few times there is no moderation,
which is the beauty of it! (Please don’t drink too much, it’s quite stupid)

People these days it seems cannot live without being in an extreme. There is
no middle ground; no possibility of it either.

Keep it up. Nothing like a good balanced approach to enjoying life.

~~~
organsnyder
It's hard when so much of commerce is conspiring against us. I truly enjoy
using Facebook (in the absence of a non-evil alternative) to interact with
family and friends, but every time I do so I have to fight the platform's
design that optimizes for quantity of interactions.

I have tried doing a bit of woodworking when I need a break (I work from
home), and I've found it's much better for my mental, emotional, and physical
well-being compared to going down a social media rabbit hole (like I'm doing
presently). Not only do I feel like I've accomplished something and have
gotten some exercise, but it also doesn't usually suck me in for hours at a
time—especially since I mostly use hand tools that tire me out fairly quickly.

tl;dr: rabbets instead of rabbit holes

~~~
codyb
Cooking and baking are my big ones. It’s tactile. There’s an end to each
session (as opposed to most side projects which have a nigh on infinite set of
potential tasks, or work which is much the same).

I’m on my feet. I usually don’t have music or TV on so my brain gets a nice
bit of breathing time and original thoughts bubble up.

And then if I’m doing dishes maybe I will turn music on, get a bit of dance
on.

I love the smells of things as they sauté, or roast, or bake. And the sounds
of the knife hitting the chopping board, or the water coming from the faucet,
or the coffee grinding and gurgling (especially in the mornings).

And then I get to eat something delicious (the vast majority of the time). And
I love learning about new flavors, and how I can combine them and using new
techniques with high quality ingredients.

Very pleasant. My Pops does woodworking and stained glass making and
photography and cooks and bakes and I imagine it’s much the same. Tactile, not
a lot of screens, on the feet, keeps the brain energized and making new neural
connections.

Definitely better than looking at page 12 of Reddit (for me, although I do
that sometimes too).

------
goactualize
Terribly biased hit piece on Silicon Valley, here is my rebuttal:
[https://medium.com/@DrSepah/why-the-media-lies-to-you-
about-...](https://medium.com/@DrSepah/why-the-media-lies-to-you-about-
dopamine-fasting-dceed8be007e)

~~~
solidasparagus
I find that graph of media consumption outrageously hard to believe. The
average person spends 11 out of 24 hours every day consuming media? People
average 4 hours a day watching TV and 1.75 hours a day listening to the radio?

~~~
lotsofpulp
Instagram/reddit/Snapchat/tik tok/forwarded whatsapp videos/hacker news/audio
books/music are all media. And with a device that enables 24/7 consumption
literally on a person 24/7, I don’t doubt it.

~~~
solidasparagus
If you look at the graph, internet usage is a relatively small percentage of
media usage. TV + Radio have roughly 2x the consumption of internet based
media according to that graph. Which strikes me as odd, although the idea of
people in transportation skewing the radio numbers is interesting

------
bob1029
I find exercise is the best solution along similar lines for me, and has the
added side effect of actually making you stronger and healthier. The
difference is night and day:

If I don't regularly exercise, I'll get burned out very quickly on some task I
would have normally found fun previously. E.g. some highly-intense game like a
competitive multiplayer shooter, or even a difficult programming challenge.
Even interacting with other people can suck in this mode.

If I am regularly exercising (I.e. 30 minutes of cardio every day or better),
I can carry through marathon sessions of gaming or coding with a smile on my
face the entire time. My social tolerance levels are infinitely higher than
without.

I still don't fully understand all of the biology behind this, but it seems
that regular exercise is a great way to pay-forward the debt that is incurred
when you stimulate your dopamine receptors. Maybe there is some relationship
between exercise/sleep/dopamine/serotonin, because I find that regular
exercise yields substantially deeper sleep, and when I wake up from this I
feel like I want to engage in challenging tasks.

------
Merrill
>It consists of a period of abstention from earthy delights like sex, drugs,
and, in some extreme cases, talking to other people, for 24 hours or more.
[https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/vb5qb9/dopamine-
fasting-i...](https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/vb5qb9/dopamine-fasting-is-
the-newest-sounds-fake-but-ok-wellness-trend)

See also
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asceticism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asceticism)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vow_of_silence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vow_of_silence)

>In many monasteries it is the custom to begin the "Great Silence" after
Compline, during which the whole community, including guests, observes silence
throughout the night until the morning service the next day.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compline](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compline)

------
nabdab
Naming things is hard.

This seems to be a scientifically proven and effective treatment which has
proved benefits. But the name makes people have incorrect assumptions (and
apparently also at least one practitioner). So it’s getting a lot of bad
press.

All because of a bad name.

~~~
civilized
A predictably bad name that reflects Silicon Valley pretensions of
"biohacking"

------
neonate
[http://archive.is/uvfnI](http://archive.is/uvfnI)

~~~
dvfjsdhgfv
I love the fact that uBlock Origin has a little switch for JS in the bottom-
left corner. Works like a charm for most websites like these and make your
overall experience much more agreable.

------
hobo_mark
Hahahaha, I guess the story originated from this tweet?

[https://twitter.com/jnymnz/status/1179175270105763846](https://twitter.com/jnymnz/status/1179175270105763846)

------
bitexploder
Cal Newport wrote an entire book around this called Digital Minimalism. I
encourage folks to take a look. Taking an occasional break is good. Making
technology actually work for you is better.

~~~
goactualize
Cal is the OG and deserves credit for popularizing this for a previous
generation.

------
gumby
These guys are trolling the NYT, right? It reminds me of an article a few
years ago about the socks of "Silicon Valley" which was clearly a troll from
someone in SF ([https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/05/fashion/in-silicon-
valley...](https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/05/fashion/in-silicon-valley-socks-
make-the-tech-entrepreneur.html))

------
songzme
The struggles of first world problems...

~~~
vekker
I don't know about that... for example, as smartphones become more and more
ubiquitous, it becomes easy and cheap for people of all income levels to
indulge in visual & auditory sensory overload.

I'm currently traveling in Asia and it's jarring to see the number of people
sitting idly, watching some random YouTube videos or Facebooking to pass the
time.

~~~
EdwardDiego
> I'm currently traveling in Asia and it's jarring to see the number of people
> sitting idly, watching some random YouTube videos or Facebooking to pass the
> time.

Why is it jarring?

~~~
Japhy_Ryder
Because there's an actual real world, with real people around us that we could
be interacting with, rather than staring at a smartphone screen?

~~~
EdwardDiego
Why is it jarring to see in Asia, as opposed to everywhere else?

------
goldenkey
I have used an herb Corydalis Yanhusuo [1] a dopamine D3 antagonist [2]. I buy
the plum flower brand of tea pills [3] and take the normal recommended dose.
It feels like anhedonia, relaxing, sort of similar to antipsychotics if you
have ever taken anything like valproic acid. Don't take an absurd much or
you'll get seratonin syndrome.

p.s. it is also a great non narcotic solution for pain relief, more effective
than NSAIDs alone.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corydalis_yanhusuo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corydalis_yanhusuo)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine_receptor_D3](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine_receptor_D3)

[3] [https://amzn.to/36LNdJa](https://amzn.to/36LNdJa)

~~~
loblollyboy
I just go on a jog

------
neilobremski
I can't say I agree with this (besides how silly it reads). Outright avoidance
as a periodic tact sounds like jarring panacea. One day I wake up in a flood
of sensations and the next day I stick my head in the sand? Where is the
adaptation, the learning, the evolution?

------
antonios
Relevant (and maybe inspired this article):

[https://carnivoreaurelius.com/dopamine-
fast/](https://carnivoreaurelius.com/dopamine-fast/)

------
mark_l_watson
Two of my friends just went on a five day retreat in which there was no
talking and everyone had their own mini-cabin in the woods. This seems like
prime dopamine fasting.

------
cestith
So... they reinvented Shabbat?

------
chasd00
isn't this just the Straight Edge thing that was popular in the 90s? There's a
whole subculture for it.

~~~
magashna
Straight Edge people don't use drugs or drink, and some abstain from sex. I've
also met a few that would instead get their rush from fighting non-edge
people. Just like the people in the article, basing your entire personality
around abstinence makes a person a 1-dimensional asshole.

~~~
SketchySeaBeast
> Just like the people in the article, basing your entire personality around
> abstinence makes a person a 1-dimensional asshole.

I'd say it can sometimes make you an asshole along many dimensions.

------
eaandkw
So let me get this straight. People do a dopamine fast by avoiding anything
that would be considered fun and enjoyable so that they can be completely
rested and enjoy work more? Sounds like a bad trade off. We should probably
just work less.

------
friendlybus
Yay nihilism. /s You can ascribe nearly anything to pleasure and dopamine.
Never mind that a lot of people are addicted to facebook content partly
because it generates a negative feeling.

~~~
qntty
Weird to associate nihilism with something that the article compares to
religious practice, which is emphatically not nihilistic.

~~~
friendlybus
Part of it's title is 'How to feel nothing now'. It is aiming at gaining a new
life from nihilism. It has little to do with religion, that is the framework
for the process of heading towards nothing.

It has the same quality of mind emptying meditation that you can get from a
Sam Harris workshop. It is fundamentally opposite from being on top of the
world, having everything in order. It instead encourages you to clear out a
valuable part of your life and society as if exiting downwards is productive.

The article is on point for current trends, clear the air to let in the water
gods. It's predictable.

------
paloaltokid
I liked this article. It seems like these guys are seeking some peace of mind
during big time life stress.

It seems like they might enjoy meditating?

~~~
grenoire
I was feeling mild about the whole thing until the very end where he decides
not to talk to a friend long unseen because he's fasting.

Come on, that's just ridiculously pretentious no matter what your goals or
intentions are.

------
gl00pp
These guys are taking NNN too far.

~~~
blaser-waffle
"Joyless January"

"Yeah I'm doing JJ to really reset those D-P receptors, you know?"

------
vhpoet
Vipassana for people who can't afford to leave San Francisco for 10 days.

------
naringas
looks like a form of Ascetism
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asceticism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asceticism)

~~~
goactualize
"The point of dopamine fasting is not to encourage monasticism or masochism,
Fun, enjoyment, and aesthetic appreciation are an important part of life"
[https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dopamine-fasting-new-
silicon-...](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dopamine-fasting-new-silicon-
valley-trend-dr-cameron-sepah/)

------
vbo
tl;dr hipsters identify niche, become urban monks

------
donquichotte
So they invented 1-day weekends? Time to find investors!

------
vixen99
Paywall

~~~
dang
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21480099](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21480099)

------
ryandvm
> The other day, Mr. Sinka ran into an old friend but had to tell her they
> could not continue speaking.

> “I hadn’t seen her in six months, and it was extraordinarily exciting,
> super-stimulating, and I could feel how excited I was,” he said. “So I had
> to cut it off and I just said, ‘Listen, it’s not you, it’s me, doing this
> dopamine fast.’”

If this were on HBO's Silicon Valley, we would dismiss it as too over-the-top.

~~~
magashna
I wouldn't be able to hold back laughter if I heard this. It seems like
something a parody of hipsters would say.

"My life is too good, I need to make it worse" but still be as self centered
as possible.

God forbid someone does difficult volunteer work instead of this "dopamine
fast".

~~~
jodrellblank
God forbid you do some difficult volunteer work instead of this "putting
people down and mocking them" internet commenting.

Incidentally, why is it that so many people argue that wealth comes from doing
things people value, but then support volunteer work? If it's the case that
helping people makes money, all the people needing help should have
entrepreneurs all over them, rather than hoping for unpaid volunteers. And why
would people tend to become volunteers if continually told that virtue comes
from measurably productive money making?

~~~
magashna
I do both, and I'm also not sure what your tangent has to do with me.

~~~
jodrellblank
Then why can't the article person do volunteering and dopamine fasting?

My tangent has nothing to do with you; not everything is to do with you.

------
beebmam
This sounds extremely dangerous. Having low amounts of dopamine or even just a
decreasing amount of dopamine can cause psychosis and Parkinson's disease.

Don't listen to this garbage without talking to your doctor first.

~~~
normalnorm
I think you are taking the title a bit to literally. By "dopamine fast", what
is meant is abstaining from activities that give you "cheap" dopamine hits,
such as participating in social media and receiving likes in your posts.

This is absolutely safe. If you brain is healthy, it will produce the dopamine
it needs either you want it or not. Abstaining from Facebook, or even
abstaining from all activity and spending the day staring at a wall will not
change that.

~~~
grabbalacious
Yes. To quote William Arkle,

'Purity is not goodness, it is having clear and undistorted communication with
all our levels of experience.'

'The teaching of purity and simplicity is therefore not an attempt to narrow
down our life and experience, it is not a type of punishment, it does not
invalidate our individuality neither does it bring special dispensations with
it from God. It is nothing more or less than what is understood in scientific
terms as a law of condition of nature which we must accept and work with
because it is not within our ability to change. To be pure is not to be in
fear of making mistakes which will make God angry with us and thus punish us.
It is rather to eradicate from our attitudes the hesitations and suspicions
which prevent us acting and experiencing with intensity and conviction.'

[https://williamarkle.blogspot.com/2019/06/a-geography-of-
con...](https://williamarkle.blogspot.com/2019/06/a-geography-of-
consciousness-text.html)

It isn't necessary to be formally religious to understand that the object of
purity is to make the varying intensity of one's responses be truly integrated
with the situations that one encounters, whether one is being attacked by a
lion, at risk of ostracism, receiving good news, celebrating a birthday, etc.

