
Ask HN: Is it possible to make $200K/year base salary? - bsvalley
Are there any companies, fields or specific areas related to software development that offer +200K base salary per year? I don&#x27;t care about stocks or bonuses... let&#x27;s say this is for 8-10y of experience.<p>Example: Netflix (+200k&#x2F;y base salary with no extra)
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gizmo
I'm not sure why you wouldn't care about stocks or bonuses, but 200k base
salary is entirely possible at Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Amazon, Apple,
Oracle, most hedge funds, and so on. 200k per year doesn't even put you in the
1%. 200k per year isn't even an infinite amount of money -- larger house and
nicer car and _poof_ it's gone.

Right now software engineers with AI and Deep Learning experience or Big Data
experience are in demand and they can easily clear 200k.

Outside of the US a base salary of 200k less common, but still possible for
senior software engineer type roles, or more commonly for CTO or Director of
Engineering level roles.

[http://www.slate.com/blogs/business_insider/2014/01/12/googl...](http://www.slate.com/blogs/business_insider/2014/01/12/google_programmer_salaries.html)

~~~
bsvalley
I've been there, there is not such things for an individual contributor unless
you're an old employee (10 years at the same company).

I'm talking about +200K/y base salary, no stocks, bonuses etc.

~~~
frankchn
Google Staff Software Engineers make $200k+/year in base salary for a total
compensation of $350k+ according to Glassdoor:
[https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Staff-Software-
Engin...](https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Staff-Software-Engineer-
Salaries-E9079_D_KO7,30.htm)

This is three promotions for a new grad software engineer to reach this level,
but if you are good, it is reasonable to get 3 promotions in 9 years. I assume
other companies pay comparably at this level of seniority.

~~~
bsvalley
Other companies, you mean FB or Microsoft? The rest, they don't.

Also, Staff engineer at google = at least 8 years working at google as an
engineer (while being a rock star over there). What if you join google now
with 10 years of exp? Would you make $200k base salary? Not sure...

~~~
frankchn
Well, I am sure Amazon, Dropbox, and many of the other large companies would
too.

Also, I don't think it is unreasonable for someone with the equivalent
experience of 8 or 9 years at Google to get hired as a Staff Software
Engineer. Of course, this is ultimately dependent on how well you perform in
your interviews and the hiring committee.

Anyway, if you only care about cash compensation rather than bonuses or stock,
Netflix is where you want to go: [https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Netflix-
Senior-Software-Eng...](https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Netflix-Senior-
Software-Engineer-Salaries-E11891_D_KO8,32.htm). Their compensation package is
basically all cash, no stocks, no bonus or anything like that. Note that
Netflix hires all software engineers as "Senior Software Engineers":
[https://jobs.netflix.com/jobs](https://jobs.netflix.com/jobs)

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itamarst
There are some industries, probably (hedge funds, as the other comment says).
But a lot of variation is regional: you'll get paid way more in Silicon Valley
or San Francisco than anywhere else.

The problem is that housing so much expensive there that it's not clear it's
actually worth it.

To put it another way, salary isn't the important thing. It's salary minus
expenses, adjusted for local cost of living (really just another form of
expenses). While maximizing income is good, cutting your expenses is far more
useful (and easier) once your income is high enough:
[https://codewithoutrules.com/2016/08/08/living-below-your-
me...](https://codewithoutrules.com/2016/08/08/living-below-your-means/)

------
danial
AmaGooFaceSoftApple will pay senior developers in excess of 200k per year.

You can't ignore stocks because they will often cap your base salary and pay
the rest in stocks. For example, a VP at one of these may have their annual
compensation at $X,XXX,XXX per year but only receive $1XX,XXX in base salary.
This is true for developers as well, but the ratio of base to total
compensation is skewed more towards base compared to a VP.

Also note that there are some very distinguished engineers at these companies
whose role isn't people or business manager who would receive as much as, and
sometimes more than, a highly compensated VP.

~~~
bsvalley
Rarely, if you join as a senior engineer at AmaGooFaceSoftApple you won't make
200k base salary. This will be mostly stocks.

~~~
erubin
I'm not sure why you don't consider stock in a public company that you can
immediately sell every monthly vesting period liquid.

~~~
nunez
Because you have to work for several years (4 at Google) before you can
liquidate them completely (don't forget about taxes) and you have to rely on
non-deterministic factors to keep that train going (stock refreshes, raises,
promo bonuses, etc.)

Salary is much more straightforward, and more predictable.

~~~
shaftway
The large companies keep that gravy train rolling. If they don't do refreshes,
people walk after their last vesting event.

The hot new thing is to do continuous vesting with annual refreshes. That way
you're constantly accruing and the only time you can't exit is during company
blackouts.

------
jandrewrogers
I know many people that are paid like this, most outside of Silicon Valley
even, and the common factor is that they are exceptionally skilled and proven
domain experts in their field. The specific field of software is less
important.

Obviously market demand does influence the salary, but there are many fields
in software development where top skill will command this wage. Generally
though, you have to really love what you specialize in to develop the kind of
skill and expertise that will earn you this salary, it is not something you do
by rote.

~~~
bsvalley
What are those fields?

~~~
micahbright
It's been mentioned elsewhere, but machine learning combined with big data is
here in a big way. If you are not at least aware of the value of these skills,
you are way behind the curve.

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techjuice
Yes, big federal government contractors offer this if you meet the
requirements for the job as a base salary, actually have the required work
experience and are in the top 25% of the talent pool.

Though, at that level it is extremely competitive, and you will be working on
solving some extremely challenging problems that you would never encounter
outside the government contracting industry.

You can also work for high end service agencies, or startups, or if you want
to make way more then that financial institutions would be a good start.
Though note, the pace is very fast in many of those companies and the hours
may not be worth the large sums of money you will get paid for putting them in
if you cannot handle stress very well.

~~~
prodtorok
I think you hype up the federal space a bit. I know many people in this space
making 150-200k+ and it really isn't that competitive (Have a clearance, do
good work, maneuver around politics)

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crorella
At fb I earn slightly more than that before bonuses

~~~
bsvalley
Is this base salary? What is your profile? 10 years of exp. at FB? Individual
Contributor? Are you specialized in AI or something else?

~~~
madeofpalk
> Individual Contributor?

Would you mind explaining what this is? You've mentioned that twice in this
thread and it's something I've never heard before.

~~~
adamesque
An individual contributor is just someone who doesn't directly manage other
people.

I think you're supposed to use it to refer to people who are evaluated by
their own work output as opposed to measuring the output of a team (even
though I think for senior engineers it's totally valid to evaluate whether
they're boosting the team and nudging them towards better solutions).

~~~
madeofpalk
Isn't that just a 'regular employee'? Maybe I'm missing something here (or
differences in work culture from US to AUS) but since when isn't _everyone_
evaluated by their own work output?

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acconrad
Should I be depressed by this thread or inspired? I _may_ get a raise to
$150k/yr and I thought that was doing well for the northeast, but this just
makes me feel like I've made bad career choices to be in the workforce for 8
years with only this salary to show for it. I genuinely can't tell if I'm
doing well for my age/experience/location or if I'm suckered into a job that
isn't valuing me.

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late2part
Yes. Start broadly, then become broadly competent, then become specifically
talented in a particular area. You want a niche that is big enough to be
interesting (cassandra, biology machine learning) while not being so large
that Universities are churning out thousands of specialists (java, oracle,
mysql).

------
giancarlostoro
As some have said possibly government contracting, or maybe even the medical
fields. There is definitely a lot of money to go around if you know where to
look and what you're willing to do for it (I'm speaking legally of course).
Government contracting may not be for everyone, it depends on the company and
what they do if you'd like it or not. Before I got my current job I saw some
companies that made things I had 0 interest being involved in. Bear in mind
that you must be a US Citizen to do government contracting in the US. This
gives you an advantage over others who don't have this privilege.

------
raincom
Yes, it is possible. When you are offered $200K base at FB, Apple, google,
etc, expect that your bonus and RSU gonna add another $200K a year on top of
your base.

Experience is necessary for that base, but not sufficient though. Have you
built a good product? Are you a top notch engineer? Can you pass a
facebook/google type interview? If yes, you can demand. In the worst case, you
can get a fat RSU package, and a fat sign on bonus, even if you are offered
$170K base.

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oppositelock
My base salary was about 200k before I left Google a couple years ago. I was a
Senior SWE, and have about 20 years of work experience.

------
zump
Great, another size comparison thread.

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spoiledtechie
You can hit 165k as a tech lead or software lead in DC area for the private
companies.

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throwaway_fruit
Throwaway account; work at a fruit stand in Cupertino. Base $200k, not
including RSUs and bonuses.

$200k RSUs on signing, with the expectation of yearly top-ups. Not sure what
the cash bonus will be, haven't been here long enough to find out.

------
nunez
Not possible, for the most part, as an IC. There are exceptions, though.

10000% possible in management, sales and executive positions.

That's my observation anyway. That's also the reason why I'm making the move
into this territory.

~~~
melmoth
It's definitely possible in SF. I joined a mid-stage startup a year ago as an
IC staff engineer type at a little over $200k base, plus bonus, plus RSU
equity. I have significant management experience, but joined as an IC. Base
would likely be even higher at a company like Google, LinkedIn, Facebook.

~~~
nunez
Your management experience makes a huge difference IMO. Also, SF salaries are
inflated relative to other markets

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memmove33
I make that much: Senior Software Engineer at a startup (joined among the
first 3 hires), Bay Area. About 6 years of experience.

200k$ base salary

50k$ performance bonus

1% ISOs (after considering dilutions. Company is ~1y post Series B)

~~~
bsvalley
That is pretty impressive I have to say...

~~~
memmove33
As a further data point, some people in my personal network of comparable
experience and age are pulling 500-700k a year from Google/fb. That of course
includes RSUs, but that's literally the total compensation they are able to
translate into hard cash every single year.

~~~
bsvalley
Now I don't believe you :) 6 years of experience pulling $500k at google/fb?
I've worked for these kind of companies, there is no such things. Unless
you're one of these isolated rats who don't communicate to anyone. There are
some at google but not a lot..

~~~
memmove33
Well, that's simply true. Two close acquaintances go like this:

\- age: 29 base: ~150k, RSU package: 1.8M negotiated upon joining (4y vesting)

\- age: 34 base: ~250k, RSU package: 3M, same terms

Both are very solid individual contributors, smartest guys in my personal
network for sure.

It's really not hard to believe. Another acquaintance of mine works at a very
big Hadoop startup here in the bay (guess name) as a product manager, and her
total compensation is around 350k a year. It's not surprising to have a very
solid engineer get some multiple of that.

~~~
bsvalley
what do you mean by 1.8M and 3M? if you get 150k RSU and $200/base salary per
year, how do you end up with 1.8 million?

~~~
memmove33
Poor formatting (editing from mobile). $150k is base salary. $1.8M is the
additional RSU grant with 4 year vesting schedule _heavily_ negotiated prior
to joining (in these examples, with a bidding war between google, fb and
another very big company).

Also, I can personally testify how important negotiating the offer is. I
routinely (every ~2y) interview to discover my market value and, from a
position of power (e.g. "Well I'm happily employed at the moment so the
incentive has to be good" or "I have a higher offer"), is very easy to
negotiate additional stocks. I've been able to improve the offer by a good
$100k yearly RSUs (!!) just by negotiating with HR. It also helps that I kind
of like the process (I'm that weird person who gets thrilled by buying a new
car and making a car salesman lose his patience by constantly asking a better
offer and absolutely be ready to leave if it doesn't happen)

~~~
mailshanx
Would be great if you could impart some offer negotiation advise! I was once
interviewing with the fruit company. The HR guy was very aggressive, and
insisted that I reveal all details of my current comp before we proceed
further. This was after I was referred by an employee and already had an
conversation with the team lead. After I revealed my comp, he acted very
surprised about how high it was, and about how difficult it would be for them
to exceed it.

How do you respond when they insist on knowing your comp details?

~~~
memmove33
As fuzzy-logic said, just don't reveal your total comp, and be willing to walk
away from it for real (walking away from such juicy offers requires the most
determination, so it's important you do it from a position of power, for
example if you already have a good job, otherwise they have you by the balls).

The only case where it can be beneficial to disclose something about your
compensation is if you have deferred compensation (e.g. stock options) that
you want your potential new employer to somehow consider in the offer. In that
case, sharing a copy of the grant is the easiest thing to do, and doesn't hurt
much

~~~
mailshanx
I see. How does one then approach the topic of compensation, and determine if
the two parties at at least in the same ballpark?

Do you postpone comp-talk until an offer is on the table? Or is it safe to
assume that large companies generally have an extremely elastic range?

Do you think it's a good idea say something like "If you can offer
$OBVIOUSLY_EXTREMELY_HIGH, i will immediately accept. For lesser offers, i
will evaluate them on a case by case basis."

------
throwaway782
I'm on ~$192K USD in the UK, but I mostly do WFH.. If I was willing to commute
every day, it could be more.

10 years experience. Cloud / Security background. Finance Infra job.

------
dustingetz
freelancing 125/hr * 36 hr/wk * 44wk = 198k

~~~
lastofus
Finding 36 * 44 hours of work a year at that rate is non-trivial, not to
mention the difference between 1099 taxes vs w2 taxes you pay as a salaried
employee.

~~~
dustingetz
the difference is 7% iirc, its kind of negligible which is why i dont even
know exactly what it is. Because the hourly rates ratchet at higher increments
than 7%. If you want more money you go release a side project, give a talk
about it and poof 20% raise on next project.

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harry8
Snowden was on this, iirc.

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mbesto
Management Consulting focused in technology.

------
x0ner
Information security.

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rgovind
Principal engineer in Linkedin, Google, FB etc?

~~~
bsvalley
Principal engineer is way over 10years of exp. Or these 10 years where spent
at the same company.

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ckluis
HFT

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truftruf
Make $140k/yr, be happy, and make a side project that brings in passive
income. Build it up over 5 years until it makes $200k/yr reliably..now you're
doing better than anyone who has to have a real job.

~~~
iplaw
You make this sound easy and guaranteed. Perhaps give a few examples of side
projects that will generate $200k in ARR within 5 years?

~~~
sean_patel
> Perhaps give a few examples of side projects that will generate $200k in ARR
> within 5 years?

Here =>
[https://www.indiehackers.com/businesses?revenue=Over%20%2425...](https://www.indiehackers.com/businesses?revenue=Over%20%2425k%20per%20month)

If you read their individual stories, you will find that 8 or 9 out of 10
started as a side-project.

Here =>
[https://www.indiehackers.com/businesses?revenue=Over%20%2425...](https://www.indiehackers.com/businesses?revenue=Over%20%2425k%20per%20month)

If you read their individual stories, you will find that 8 or 9 out of 10
started as a side-project.

Also not all are 200K. But like OP says, if you have a $140K job and not
having to work your ass off like the $200K jobs expect you to, then you can
make the extra $60K in a well thought out and executed side-project.

