
Linus Torvalds became US citizen - sasvari
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1034808/focus=1035455
======
mjgoins
I'm sick of all these low-wage foreign workers stealing our precious jobs.

~~~
ceci
Dude, Linus Torvalds is not a low-wage foreign worker. He has done more to
provide you with a job than you have done to get yourself a job.

Opensource softwares have helped the US economy because lots of today's
internet giants like Google benefitted from the use of opensource tools. They
are paying taxes and employing Americans, ain't they. Linus Torvalds is
synomymous with opensource.

Mr America, if i might ask, what have you done to provide a job for yourself,
because if you can't even provide a job for yourself, how do you provide for
others.

Make yourself competitive, read more and stay away from TV etc and you will
soon land a job.

~~~
philwelch
Before you ask, you've been downvoted for failing to grasp irony.

~~~
kiuyhjk
One more thing to consider for any other europeans thinking of moving to
America:

1, they don't understand irony

2, they carry guns

~~~
jerf
Ah, I think I see the problem. We call that "sarcasm". Quite a lot of us get
that just fine, though of course the internet can always turn up at least one
person who doesn't. "Irony" is reserved for events that are only ironic in the
light of other events; death by drowning isn't "ironic" until it happens to a
swimming instructor, for instance. You can't really _say_ something ironic, it
has to _happen_. (And if you say something ironic it is a description of a
thing that happened.)

~~~
aamar
This is, in part, incorrect. "Irony" is in its original (from Ancient Greek)
and primary usage a rhetorical form -- in other words, something intentionally
used by a speaker. Experts disagree on whether "verbal irony" and "sarcasm"
are the same thing -- sarcasm might require a kind of sharp, biting tone. But
the original comment is certainly ironic.

A situation like your drowning example is also irony; sometimes to be
explicitly this is called "situational irony" as opposed to "verbal irony."

I apologize for being pedantic; mostly I just wanted a justified link to Silva
Rhetoricae: <http://rhetoric.byu.edu/figures/I/irony.htm> (but see also
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony>).

~~~
jerf
Allow me to be pedantic right back. I did not say "sarcasm _is_ ". I said "we
_call_ that sarcasm". It's not really to label a _description_ of how a word
is used as "incorrect" and use a _proscription_ as evidence. My fourth
sentence was a bit regrettably absolutely phrased but the context of my
statement should be set by then.

I don't even care if that's true of all of us Americans, it's true of enough.
(The idea that Americans don't get "sarcasm" is very foreign to me; oh, I
certainly know _people_ who don't get it but we seem a fairly sarcastic
culture to me.)

~~~
aamar
Okay. I think those sources are descriptive, but to be sure, here is the
American Heritage Dictionary (<http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irony>),
an explicitly descriptive dictionary about American usage. It seems to agree
with the other sources that irony can be and is often used in this case.

On the other hand, one can reasonably believe that every dictionary is, by its
nature as a reference book, primarily prescriptive (and proscriptive) and
therefore cannot be reliably descriptive. If so, then it seems we do have to
go only with personal observations.

In terms of personal observations, I agree with you that many Americans I know
would use "sarcasm" in this case and not use "irony." I think I (along with
many other Americans, maybe fewer than the other group?) would use "irony" and
probably not use "sarcasm" because it doesn't have that particular, hard-to-
miss sarcastic tone of voice.

------
unwind
A quick check of Wikipedia
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_nationality_law#Dual_ci...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_nationality_law#Dual_citizenship))
seems to indicate that he's still a Finn, since Finland permits dual
citizenship.

The USA
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#D...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#Dual_citizenship))
seems to permit it, too.

Of course I can't know if Mr Torvalds has done anything in particular to
_only_ be a US citizen, but at least that doesn't seem to be the default.

~~~
nkassis
That's interesting. I've heard that dual citizenship wasn't exactly liked by
the US government. I was under the impression that US citizens that move to
other countries had to renounce their US citizenship before becoming citizen
of the other country.

~~~
ojbyrne
<http://www.richw.org/dualcit/faq.html#noway>

Struck down by the courts a very long time ago.

~~~
tokenadult
Read that more carefully: "The Supreme Court chose to leave in place the
requirement that new citizens must renounce their old citizenship during US
naturalization." Presumably, Linus was naturalized, rather than having a claim
to United States citizenship from birth.

~~~
ojbyrne
I did read it more carefully. The next sentence says essentially says that
that has no effect (in the vast majority of cases), because other countries
don't recognize it as renouncing citizenship. It's essentially ceremonial.

------
scrrr
Countries are such an old-school concept somehow.

EDIT: Downvotes? Come on. Especially today, especially in our world of modern
technology, physical location is less important than ever before. Where's the
sci-fi novel where they abolished countries after they found out we all live
on a tiny planet orbiting one of a billion stars?

~~~
kiuyhjk
Welcome to Europe. 500 years ago it was mostly principalities and city states,
tried empires for a while, then we had countries for a few 100 years - now we
are trying to abolish them again. It's very much a British (actually English)
idea that countries are eternal and inviolate.

IIRC Singapore and a bunch of other high tech SE Asian countries essentially
did the same thing. Anybody with a high tech qualification, eg a CS degree,
could live and work in any of the club no questions asked.

~~~
davidw
> It's very much a British (actually English) idea that countries are eternal
> and inviolate.

France is pretty nationalistic too, no? They're one of the harshest countries
in Europe in terms of minority languages, if I recall correctly.

~~~
kiuyhjk
But only since about 1880. Before that 'France' was only about 20% of the
country and only about 20% spoke French.

There was a huge effort to create a single nation, similar to the unification
of Germany and Italy around the same time.

Their attitude to the language rather shows that - nobody in England thinks
English needs 'protecting'.

~~~
jacquesm
English is 'open source', French is 'the cathedral'.

It shows in their proliferation patterns too.

~~~
kiuyhjk
Whats the quote?

Other languages borrow foreign words - English lures them into dark alleys and
goes through their pockets for any grammer they might have.

~~~
waqf
The original quote is:

 _The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that
English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on
occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them
unconscious and riffle_ [sic] _their pockets for new vocabulary._

ref: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Nicoll>

------
goatforce5
I'll guess he originally came in on an EB2(C) visa, which is for people of
exceptional ability in their field who the US will allow in, regardless of
whether or not they have a specific job offer.

This means that, until he became a citizen, he'd immigration status in the US
would have been: "exceptional alien".

That's not a status i'd give up easily. :)

~~~
muriithi
Is there also an expedited path to citizenship for "exceptional alien" ?

I was reading an article today about an Indian nanny who saved the life of a 2
year old Israeli boy during the 2008 Mumbai attacks.

Israel honored her by granting her honorary citizenship and temporary
residency in Israel.

Link :
[http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/09/14/israel.mumbai....](http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/09/14/israel.mumbai.nanny/index.html?hpt=C2)

~~~
sethg
N.B.: Indian citizens cannot be dual nationals: if they accept citizenship or
a passport from another country, they lose their Indian citizenship.
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_nationality_law#Automati...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_nationality_law#Automatic_Termination_of_Indian_citizenship))
I assume this is why the nanny’s Israeli citizenship is only “honorary”.

------
planckscnst
Even more interesting, he's interested in the latency work that Desnoyers was
working on last week.

------
ciupicri
Now he'll never get rid of US taxes.

~~~
keltex
Yep. U.S. citizens get the benefit of their worldwide income being taxed.

~~~
ephesus
Only income above the equivalent of $80,000.

~~~
_delirium
It's now up to $91,400
([http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,...](http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=97130,00.html)).

Plus if your income is in, say, Europe, it's effectively all excluded, because
you can offset the European taxes (which are usually higher) one-for-one
against U.S. taxes, ending up owing nothing.

------
dctoedt
Not to be all nationalistic or anything (and it's been said before), but it
_is_ interesting that people seem to immigrate to the U.S. far more than they
emigrate from it.

~~~
avar
I think not learning a second language has a lot to do with it. It's easy for
most Europeans to pick up another language since they've already mastered a
foreign language or two (including English).

But it's much harder for someone from the US to move to central Europe, aside
from the UK and some enclaves that speak English.

~~~
jimbokun
That is certainly part of it. But I also think some other countries do a worse
job welcoming immigrants. Japan notoriously so. Is it easy to become a citizen
of China or India if you want to "outsource yourself"? The EU gives
essentially a free migration pass to all member countries, but how is it
coming from outside of Europe?

Any of you hackers care to comment on the situation in your nation of origin,
or the one where you live?

~~~
_delirium
I'm an American in the process of getting a Danish work permit, and it's easy
so far, but they seem to have a special fast-track category for "researchers",
and a Danish university is sponsoring me. I assume I couldn't just move there
on my own. On the other hand, Linus also fits a fairly easy profile, so could
probably get a work permit almost anywhere (highly educated and
internationally famous engineer with steady employment).

Getting Danish citizenship, though, is notoriously difficult, and among other
requirements, they require you to renounce any other citizenships (unlike the
U.S., they actually enforce this requirement). Many foreigners, as a result,
live in Malmö, Sweden and commute to Copenhagen (it's about a 30-minute train
ride over the bridge/tunnel), since Sweden's citizenship laws are more lax,
and once you have EU citizenship you're essentially good anywhere in the EU.

------
known
Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship

<http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html>

~~~
ciupicri
I wonder what happens if you want your U.S. citizenship back (not reversing
the renunciation).

------
roadnottaken
This makes me proud :)

~~~
mike-cardwell
What of exactly?

~~~
sp332
The USA, for being appealing enough to make Linus want to (first) move here
and (now) take on citizenship, instead of just telnetting from Finland - or
anywhere else on the planet he might have liked better.

~~~
kiuyhjk
Or being so inflexible with regard to immigration that the only way to work
there without facing immediate deportation if you change jobs is to become a
citizen.

I can live and work permanently in 27 countries (including Finland) without
having to change nationality.

~~~
avar
I'm pretty sure it's 30. I have an Icelandic citizenship (Iceland is one of
the 30 in the EEA), and I'm working freely in one of the 27 EU countries
currently.

All I had to do after I moves was to register with the local city authorities
to indicate that I had moved there, and provide documentation proving that I
had a job so that they knew they didn't have to put me on social security.

One might also make the counterpoint that while we can move between 30 states
in the EEA US citizens can move between 50 states in their union, and their
superstate comprises almost twice the surface area of the EU.

~~~
kiuyhjk
There are some differences, a US friend of mine did law in the UK which meant
she could work anywhere from Finland to Greece. But when she passed the New
York bar she couldn't work in New Jersey.

~~~
roel_v
No. She could 'work in law' in the same way in New Jersey as she could in
Greece - as a 'jurist' or 'company lawyer', but not initiate court proceeding.
Being admitted to the bar in one Member State does not automatically mean
admittance to the bar in another Member State, nor does it even mean that one
is eligible to just take the bar exam in that other Member State (although
this last part is under proceedings before the European Court for restricting
movement of persons within the Union.

In contrast, one doesn't even need a law school degree to be able to take the
bar exam in any US state. (admittedly it's almost impossible to pass without
one).

~~~
dctoedt
> one doesn't even need a law school degree to be able to take the bar exam in
> any US state

Not quite: In a number of US states, a prerequisite to taking the bar exam is
either graduation from an ABA-accredited law school, or a foreign law degree
with additional training in a U.S. school. See Chart III at
[http://www.ncbex.org/fileadmin/mediafiles/downloads/Comp_Gui...](http://www.ncbex.org/fileadmin/mediafiles/downloads/Comp_Guide/CompGuide_2010.pdf#page=22)
and the supplemental remarks afterwards, also Chart X.

~~~
roel_v
I stand corrected, thank you.

------
ramki
up voted for irony and funny comments.

