
Ask HN: Would you mind being monitored at work? - icos
I look for a remote software developer position and a potential employer say they require to install special software to track working hours and automatically take periodic screen shots. Logically, they have the right to do it and I&#x27;m fine with live pair programming, but emotionally such close monitoring is repulsive to me.<p>Normally, when I code, I google a lot (for documentation, samples and best practices), apply many iterations to shape the code to the final production ready form and take pauses to think. I&#x27;m afraid this process will look awful to a review manager.<p>Am I hypersensitive? Are my working habits normal for a seasoned software developer? Are you monitored at work?
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karmakaze
I don't care if anyone at work sees what I'm doing at any given moment as I
use my work laptop for work, barely even read HN or reddit. Even with that if
it was required that my laptop had monitoring sw as mentioned, I would
immediately work elsewhere. I'm a professional and won't work were I'm not
treated as such. It's also a sign of bad management and leadership that will
get worse rather than better.

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cellularmitosis
“It’s also a sign”

This. It is never the case that this one terrible idea was the sole outlier
from an otherwise brilliant and empathetic leadership team.

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keiferski
I would never work for a company that requires me to install spyware to take
screenshots of my computer screen. It's Orwellian and any organizations that
require it should be shamed and boycotted.

On a personal note, there are plenty of companies that don't do this, so I'm
sure you can find a position that doesn't require it.

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codesternews
Most companies (Big companies) do that. You even not aware of it. They have
pre installed softwares for this kind of shit. Monitoring your traffic and
taking screenshot is common.

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EnderMB
No, absolutely not. Trust goes both ways, and if a company cannot trust me to
use my time appropriately, then I cannot trust them to provide an adequate
environment for me to perform my job. This is doubly-important for remote
work, as you're relying on the company to adapt to its employees and the
environment they work in.

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Copenjin
> Logically, they have the right to do it

Says who? Please let's not start thinking that this kind of silly absurdities
are logical or acceptable. What's next, random monitoring to identify
wronthink?

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patatino
As a developer you are already monitored, every line of code you write or
change or delete is tracked. So it is already possible to see how much you get
done.

No, you are not hypersensitive. I don't wanna know how much else is wrong with
a company like that.

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chrisbennet
Not disagreeing with you but I might add, pauses are also a part of the
process. We (developers) aren't typists.

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wakatime
Yes, pauses and breaks can _increase_ productivity so this company's intrusive
monitoring is probably doing the opposite of what it intends. As long as the
break isn't from an external interrupt.

Note: Self-monitoring that's not shared with employer is a different story.

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davidgf
Just look for another job, don't even waste a single second of your life
considering that offer. I worked for a company that would allow us working
from home some days a week, and we even had some remote colleagues. At some
point, our manager made us install one of those applications, which denoted he
didn't trust us anymore. The app worked exactly as you say, and it was
frustrating and infuriating at the same time. It would "measure" your
productivity based on the mouse and keyboard activity, giving ridiculous
results like a 20% or 30% of effective time worked. Surely a monkey banging on
the keyboard would have a much better score, but that's not what developers
get paid for. Not only so, but I had the perception that the app had a special
preference for taking screenshots when I was on Slack or writing an email,
which feels like an utter violation of privacy. Obviously, most of us either
left the company or refused to use the tracking software. Be conscious of the
value you can provide and look for someone that judges your work by your
output, not by the number of keystrokes you do a day.

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rapnie
If you can afford it I would forego this employer and look elsewhere for a
place where they measure your performance based on what you deliver.

Your repulsion is showing your moral compass points to 'Not okay' for this
type of monitoring. Accepting it would influence the way you work, make you
feel uncomfortable, self-conscious being watched.

Imho this type of surveillance should not become the norm, and we should
resist submitting ourselves to it, whenever we can.

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creo
Its a trust issue. It probably means that said employer lacks management
skills.

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bjelkeman-again
I haven’t hired anyone as a developer remotely who I don’t trust to get in
with the work, in other words I would not remote monitor nor would I work for
someone who did.

I think they may lack management skills, but also lack skills in managing
remote workers in general. This could well be a condition put in by a non dev
manager.

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deepaksurti
Such a job (unless your situation is dire) is not recommended. I know of one
such company, won't name it here, but such companies I think are one big scam.
They will put a camera in front of you and record every moment. Cut salary if
you are away for even a few minutes! Google is your friend and as expected
such companies will insert a few moles to write good reviews about them as
well!!!

There are way too many good remote companies who will treat you good and pay
you great. Getting into them is hard as remote jobs are competed for by a
larger pool of candidates.

If you are planning to switch into remote, please do a deep dive (unsolicited
advice) :-) and then decide. Good luck!

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croo
Hello OP. I would like to point out that the otherwise diverse and critical
community of HN did something unprecedented and never before witnessed -
everyone agrees.

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alltakendamned
That would be an immediate deal breaker for me. There would be no discussion
about it. Judge me on my output, but I decide how I work.

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seattle_spring
Absolutely not. In fact, I would make it my life's mission to name and shame
that company into the ground.

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tudelo
uh... wow

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Raed667
This can be more of a symptom of lack of trust in remote workers. I'm fine
with a mostly-on live camera if you're working with a team that isn't remote
and need to bridge that gap.

However, screenshots and software monitoring is a step too far for me
personally.

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nik736
What the actual fuck.

Why are you even considering such a position?

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billconan
I would mind it. As long as I deliver, they shouldn’t care when and how long I
work.

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psv1
Yes, I would mind. A lot. You aren't hypersensitive. Run and don't even think
about it twice.

