
The Reinvention of Black (2015) - dnetesn
http://nautil.us/issue/63/horizons/the-reinvention-of-black-rp
======
andrewla
Saying black is the "absence of color" only makes sense when we talk about
additive color. For subtractive color, black is a color like any other, just
like white is.

The entire area of dyes and pigments is intensely fascinating. I went down
this rabbit hole while trying to get a set of paints for a toddler that
mimicked process color primaries rather than the traditional but inaccurate
red/yellow/blue primaries.

Additive color is in a sense a solved problem -- we can create monochromatic
light (or at least very narrowly band-limited light) in all possible
wavelengths, and all human perception of color is based on a fixed set of
wavelengths. It is possible to produce lights that will mimic any color that
humans can perceive.

Subtractive colors, on the other hand, are dependent on finding physical
substances with emission spectra that roughly map to the gamut of human
perception. There are no magic substances that produce a monochromatic
reflective baseline, instead, we are dependent on finding substances that have
emission spectra that are simply close enough to the complements of the human
visual primaries.

That's a hard enough problem, much less dealing with the fact that actually
applying dye or pigment to another physical substance involves chemical
reactions that may affect the color of the pigment, as may exposure to
ultraviolet or visible light, or changes in temperature. At one point I had a
Canon inkjet printer and I switched to using off-brand ink, because it was so
much cheaper, and looking at the photos now (~5 years later) the difference is
stark -- the cyans of the knockoff ink have almost completely vanished, even
from photos that were not exposed to sunlight or significant direct light,
while the original Canon ink is still true to the original photos.

~~~
close04
Color are _colors_ only because _visible_ light reaches your sensor (eye,
camera) and it's interpreted as one color or another. And this should already
hint at where I'm going.

So whether you have a laser emitting a specific visible wavelength, or a sheet
of paper absorbing some, in the end visible light will reach you and you can
say "hey look, it's red". Different visible wavelength reaches your retina,
different color.

Now imagine you had true black light source (paradoxically) "emitting" no
visible wavelength. Or you had a sheet of paper covered with true black ink,
absorbing all visible wavelengths. What kind of visible photons would you
register? What wavelength of visible light would reach you?

Since no photons get to your sensor how exactly do you define that color other
than "absence of color"? Or are you you talking about a convention that "the
absence of color" would in itself be called a color, in this case _black_?

~~~
andrewla
> Color are colors only because visible light reaches your sensor

You're playing a semantic game. In short, I dispute this definition. This is a
reasonable definition of additive-based color mechanics. It is otherwise an
arbitrary definition of the word "color" that does not match common usage of
the term.

To expand the term, "color" is often used to mean the perceived spectral
emissions from a surface under white-ish illumination.

If a wall is "red", and you turn off the lights, is it still red? By your
definition, no, which means the tautology you extend is meaningless to me, as
my definition of color would trivially admit that the wall remains red.

~~~
close04
The question is not "what color is the wall?" but "what color are you
seeing?". So what color are you seeing when looking at the red wall in perfect
darkness? Better yet, are you seeing anything at all? Are you claiming that
anything you can't see, on the other side of the wall, is also _black_ because
you can't perceive any spectral emissions from their surface?

Earlier you said the wall should be black because black is a color and that's
what you'd be seeing. But now you say the actual color is red but only using
prior knowledge. And if the wall actually changed colors (I quickly painted it
blue just to prove you wrong) what color would you say it is? Black? Red?
Blue? So your example is purely philosophical and doesn't support your claim
one bit.

Is the absence of _light_ a type of light? Can we call the absence of any
photon a "close04-ray" in honor of it's distinguished inventor, me?

A room doesn't contain void, it simply lacks everything else. Water is odor-
_less_ and taste- _less_. Silence isn't a type of sound, it's the lack of
sound. And a completely empty fridge doesn't contain food. Your definition of
a color while correct sabotages your conclusion that "detecting no spectral
emissions" should be called _the color black_.

And please stop using additive/subtractive as if this should change how colors
are perceived. It changes how they are _produced_ but your eye will still
detect light at a specific wavelength that you'll call a color.

Colloquially people will still call it _the color black_. But it's just a
convention also meant to support the fact that we call a wide range of greys
and dark colors as "black". It's for ease of speech and description, not for
accuracy. In reality true black is simply the absence of any perceived light.

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teh_klev
I can't find the previous HN discussion, but there was a bit of a rivalry
between Stuart Semple and Anish Kapoor over who could create the blackest
black paint:

[https://creators.vice.com/en_us/article/ezw8wp/mattest-
flatt...](https://creators.vice.com/en_us/article/ezw8wp/mattest-flattest-
black-acrylic-paint-anish-kapoor)

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jontayesp
Is Nautilus doing ok, since the problem a few months ago about paying writers?
I've noticed lately that a lot of front-page articles are pulled from older
issues, and they publish fewer articles every week. Also, I still haven't
received any print issues in the mail this year. Maybe they are transitioning
to a digital-only publication?

~~~
woqe
You haven't received a print issue this year? That makes me think my story may
not be unique.

I ordered a subscription to the physical magazine on May 1st of this year. Liz
(managing editor) responded to my two inquiries about shipping. Each time she
stated shipping was 2-3 weeks away. Both of those time frames were missed. Liz
stated there were issues with the production of one issue (specifically #24).

Nearly four months after ordering, I am still product-less. I asked for a
refund earlier this week, and I haven't gotten a response--I have escalated
the issue to PayPal at this point. The order is marked as refunded on
naultil.us's store page, but I haven't seem any action on the PayPal end.

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amelius
Reminded me of this recent news article:

[https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2018/aug/21/holed-u...](https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2018/aug/21/holed-
up-man-falls-into-art-installation-of-8ft-hole-painted-black)

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joe_the_user
It's fascinating how technology, moods, fashion and status have sort-of
followed each other.

I know Beau Brummell introduced the austere, well-coiffed style that sort of
evolved to the modern suit[1] (likely helped by the dyes mentioned in the
article). The Modern suit was also helped along by being a product of mass
productions, as John Berger outlines[2].

The standard color of the suit had shifted from black to dark blue by the
1970s when I was growing up, John T. Malloy described the dark blue suit as a
non-negotiable element of proper business attire.

And the rise of effective dyes in the 1960s meant that happy, colorful looks
were universal as the casual look.

I think all this went into the late 70s/early-80s tendency of punks to wear
black, which would now imply rebellion though that didn't prevent fusion of
high fashion and rebellion later.

And that's a small fragment of all the ways these things have gone.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beau_Brummell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beau_Brummell)

[2]
[https://kwilliamscontemporarythemes.wordpress.com/2013/11/16...](https://kwilliamscontemporarythemes.wordpress.com/2013/11/16/the-
suit-and-the-photograph-john-berger/)

[3]
[https://www.nbizmag.com/magarticles/dressforsuccess2015.pdf](https://www.nbizmag.com/magarticles/dressforsuccess2015.pdf)

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jihadjihad
Interesting they did not mention Vantablack even once.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vantablack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vantablack)

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mchahn
I have found it interesting that I cannot mix paints (subtractive color) to
get black. It always seems to be brown. Is it possible to find a combination
of paints that blocks all light? BTW, this is not considering the possible
"combination" of just one color black.

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gaius
Good article but you can’t really discuss the cultural impact of black without
mentioning the goths.

