
Fuck You Startup World (2016) - startupflix
https://medium.com/startup-grind/fuck-you-startup-world-ab6cc72fad0e
======
minimaxir
This was posted in (2016), where it was flagged to death due to drama. HN
discussion around that time:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12682944](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12682944)

My comment from back then:

> Although I genuinely miss Valleywag and all the absurdity that it covered
> (e.g. Clinkle), I'm not sure if this is a fair critique of startup culture
> outside of having the excuse to say the F word a lot. As someone living in
> San Francisco, I can say that there are more to startups and startup culture
> than the stereotypes seen in Medium thought pieces and the Hacker News front
> page, although given the end of this particular Medium thought piece, that
> may be the point.

Given that the OP now works at WeWork, I suppose the startup world can't be
f'ed forever.

------
jrowley
I understand and empathize with the sentiment but the rhetorical style really
takes away from this piece for me. Peak medium right here. Comes off sounding
like a pissed off child more than real critique.

Not worth reading in my opinion.

~~~
volkfish55
I think if you take away the f words, all he is really doing is describing the
startup culture, company he works in, nothing more. Albeit in a weird humorous
way, maybe to get quick popularity on medium or raise up the coolness factor?
In the end he pretty much sums it up as, thank you for making me one of you,
just worded differently. Some people just like attention..

~~~
warent
That very last line of the article confused me because throughout the article
I thought it was a critique of the startup world, but then his message became
mixed up. Was he showing self-awareness, or was this whole thing just a
tongue-in-cheek fistbump to the startup world? Maybe that's the point. No idea
but it took away quite a bit of the value for me.

~~~
evrydayhustling
Yeah, the article was never constructive but before that last line it was at
least punk: pissed off and doesn't owe you a thorough explanation. But that
line really drives home how little was said.

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nottorp
Hmm. "Fuck reading a book a week. No one can read that fast. Let me repeat
that -NO ONE CAN FUCKING READ THAT FAST."

He/she/it thinks so? Maybe if it's a useless self improvement book. Perhaps
he/she/it should practice their reading skills...

~~~
peckrob
Agreed. I agree with most of the points in this post, but I can’t get behind
this one.

I read 1-2 books a week because _I prioritize reading time._ Usually an hour
or two before going to sleep. I find quiet reading time really helps me wind
down and sleep better. And, I read thing I enjoy - mostly science fiction
novels, nothing heavy. Reading is _my time._

More people should make time to just read.

~~~
cmcginty
Yup, math checks out. 80k words a book, so say 120k words/week. If you read
200 wpm then this would take about 10 hours or 1.5h per day.

~~~
zbentley
Yep, and if you practice reading a lot, you’ll get much faster _and_ get
better comprehension.

Just try to avoid the styles of “quantity oriented” reading practice taught in
e.g. law school. Nothing is more guaranteed to make books unappealing as a
pleasure activity. People with learning disabilities and reading-oriented jobs
may have different experiences with those techniques, though.

------
jkFeiwi
Came here to complain about the drinking. When I worked for a startup, they
had days where the company bought people beer.

\- I don't drink, but I felt pressure to do it anyway, so I could be part of
the team.

\- There was an alcoholic on the team. Can't imagine what that was like for
him.

\- People would inevitably get drunk and do stupid shit. I remember when a
senior employee got drunk and completely embarrassed herself in front of a
client. She was fired the next day.

Can't we enjoy beer at home or at the bar? Why do we have to drink at work?

I get the feeling that for some people, startups are just a way to make
college last for ever.

~~~
walshemj
Why do you have a problem with the company buying people a beer on some days?
would you also object to a company meal put to celebrate a major release.

I've never seen people forced to drink alcohol at social events BTW.

In the real world you have to realise that not everyone is exactly like you
and how to get along and work with people from different backgrounds and
cultures.

~~~
xkcd-sucks
Because "drinking together" is so culturally ingrained as a social bonding
experience that not drinking booze makes you an outsider.

~~~
0xcoffee
In my country 'drinking together' is also a very important part of the
culture, and on Friday's ~4.30pm work stops and the company drinks together. I
don't drink and have never encountered any issues with simply saying no (but
still attend the event). Curious what negative responses people have
encountered.

~~~
caseysoftware
I wonder too because although I do drink, there have been times where it's
just poor timing. I simply say "Sorry, I can't tonight because: antibiotics,
driving home, dinner with family, etc, etc" and have had zero issues.

Even hearing "I don't drink" flies just fine.

------
kylecazar
For those criticizing the delivery, I think the author is borrowing from a
classic Ed Norton mirror rant from the film 25th hour. Probably on youtube.

~~~
praneshp
Second most elegant use of fucks, after the Wire scene.

~~~
walshemj
I take it you have not seen "the thick of it" and that's just middle class
actors playing a role- I do know people who are the real deal :-)

------
mey
There is some throwing out the baby with the bath water here. It's taken me a
decade to understand what I value in a working environment, everyone should
examine that for themselves, especially people straight out of college. Many
of the things listed are tools used by startups to attract young,
impressionable people and keep them at the office at all hours. I disagree
with that mentality, but it took me a long time to identify that incentive.

10x, Rockstar, Ninja, open office, stock over cash all tend to make me go the
other way at this point.

There is also the issue of sweating blood for someone else's success or for
toliet paper.

~~~
walshemj
That's depends stock can be a much more tax efficient way of remuneration -
though in the USA employee stock options do seem to be taxed excessively and
dont have enough safe guards for the employee

------
TAForObvReasons
> But more than all, start-up world, fuck you for making me one of you.

There are plenty of bootstrapped startups quietly humming along, working
normal hours, where the employees enjoy life and family time without engaging
in the culture. You don't hear about them as much.

~~~
eropple
Around here, bootstrapped companies with a successful, but not world-
shattering, income stream and business model are referred to--sometimes
pejoratively, sometimes not--as "lifestyle businesses." I'm not aware of many
aside from Atlassian who, in the purely-tech software-y space, really would
have the kind of income streams to suggest HN's definition of "startup".

And those kinds of business are much more my thing, so I am _not_ throwing
shade, but there is a difference.

------
Implicated
I recently went through an interview process at a downtown SF startup, from
their words I 'aced' all technical aspects and they were 'dying' to get me in
town for an on-site, final interview.

What did the on-site interview consist of? I was scheduled quick meetings with
various people in the chain of command, all of whom I had already spoken with
(some at great length) and then I was to accompany the whole team out for
drinks/happy hour at a local pub.

I don't drink. I told them I don't drink. This was a culture fit test, I never
went to the interview as that wasn't a team I wanted to be a part of. I want
to write code, work with people who are better/smarter/more experienced than I
am in order to better myself - happy hour isn't going to do that.

~~~
badcede
You didn't give them a chance to respond to the information that you don't
drink?

~~~
taysic
As someone who also rejected a company because their drinking culture seemed
like a big part of their identity (and I don't drink), it depends. In this
case, I could sense it was big enough of a contrast to who I am that it wasn't
the type of space I wanted to work. There's enough fish in sea to find a
better fit.

------
dvfjsdhgfv
> I don’t fucking care about the complexity of this code block because I can
> afford another EC2 instance

Ironically, these words are a good example of start-up mentality.

------
dvfjsdhgfv
It's a great pity this article got flagged so quickly as it's really
interesting, despite the form.

------
zzzeek
F*ck ranty clickbait tech bro stories on Medium?

------
rgbrenner
Im not sure about some of these.. but this one is so wrong I feel like it
should be addressed:

 _Fuck reading a book a week. No one can read that fast. Let me repeat that
-NO ONE CAN FUCKING READ THAT FAST._

Yes you can. If you find this difficult, please start reading regularly.
You'll get better at it over time. This should not be a challenge.

~~~
nkcmr
I find it somewhat difficult. Any tips for trying to get to that rate?

~~~
randomsearch
Just read. You’ll get faster. You don’t need to think about it or rush, just
take the time you feel you need and you’ll soon get faster whilst still
maintaining the same level of comprehension.

------
dvfjsdhgfv
> using no staging environment

This is really bad. I see it very often and I really, really don't understand
the reason for that.

------
mkagenius
> pushing to production 100 times a day

Its just automation -- nothing to be bragged about. Silly stuff we all love.

------
badcede
The startup world is big enough that this says little more than "Fuck You
World".

------
giardini
Fellow seems seriously f __ __*-up. Perhaps a mandatory vacation is in the
cards?

~~~
coldtea
Or, you know, seriously sane, and it's the things he complains about that are
fucked up.

------
lscotte
This title, in addition to being obvious click bait, contains inappropriate
and offensive language. Profanity is generally used by people too stupid to
come up with something more intelligent to say.

~~~
staticautomatic
You might consider reviewing the research on people who frequently use
profanity.

------
askafriend
The only thing I got from this post is that I want to seriously avoid working
with a person who expresses themselves in such an unproductive way.

Look, just because people care about some things that you don’t seem to care
about doesn’t mean you get to step into their world and tell them that
everything they do is wrong using vulgar language. If you don’t like the
culture, leave.

If you think aspects of the culture can be improved, then help in identifying
the problems and offer constructive solutions. Instead this guy just says
“Fuck XYZ” a hundred times and thinks he has some unique insight to offer.

~~~
jahvo
> The only thing I got from this post is that I want to seriously avoid
> working with a person who expresses themselves in such an unproductive way.

Everything in this world is about being productive

~~~
zdragnar
Why would you want to work with someone who actively undermines the productive
capacity of the workplace? All that means is everyone else has to work harder
to balance them out.

~~~
warty
There are plenty of people who'd say frat culture undermines the productive
capacity of the workplace, likewise with alcohol or being able to hit on
others, or difficulties people have because hookup culture is now a thing.
Both extremes of that are clearly terrible... there's really no right answer.

~~~
zdragnar
I don't disagree. My comment was specifically geared towards the comment
thread calling out productive communication, and whether or not that's a valid
characteristic of a desirable coworker (as well as the inverse).

