

Hate Mail from Third Graders - jamesbritt
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/pluto/mail.html

======
pyre
The one that says not to write back in cursive because she can't read cursive
yet is cute. Though the one with the six-year-old 'polling' people and such
seems more like the entire thing was orchestrated by the mother.

~~~
seldo
I want to know what a Double Planet is. Is it twice as good as a regular
planet?

~~~
jacquesm
Actually there are plenty of astronomers that consider the Earth - Moon system
to be a double planet.

A double planet is basically any planetary system that contains moons that are
relatively massive compared to the primary mass in the system.

Our moon is also quite large (1/4 the diameter of the planet).

~~~
electromagnetic
The most widely accepted recognition is when the systems centre of mass
(barycentre) is outside of the primary planet's surface. With Pluto and Charon
the centre of gravity is outside of Pluto's surface.

However Asimov made a very interesting point, and a definitely more future-
sighted point. He said that the measure of a double planet is of the tug-of-
war between planet, satellite and star. With the Earth-Moon system, the Sun is
winning the tug of war, eventually the barycentre will exit the Earth's
surface and eventually the Moon will break free of Earth's orbit. This would
make the Earth-Moon system a double planet. However Pluto is winning the fight
in the Pluto-Charon system, and eventually Charon will impact Pluto's surface.

I personally prefer Asimov's definition. It's only a matter of time (maybe
longer than the sun even) until the barycentre leaves the Earth's surface.
IIRC ~600 million years the day lengthens by ~2 hours. This means that likely
by the end of Earth's habitability (roughly 2 billion years from now) the day
will be ~30 hours long at the present rate (it's considerably speeding up).

The vast majority of planet-satellite systems are arranged in a way that the
satellite will eventually collide with its host planet. Those that don't will
eventually hit their own classification as a planet or dwarf planet along the
way, especially the Moon.

~~~
jacquesm
Thank you, that's a very detailed explanation.

It also gives me hope that in the long run I'll be able to catch up on all the
stuff I should have been doing, 30 hour days sound just fine.

------
stcredzero
Reminds me of that girl who wrote in and kept telling the car talk guys that
they stink. It was hilarious when they flew her in to appear on the show. What
was her name again?

------
mynameishere
Do all third graders have weird line justification issues?

~~~
asolove
Yes. In fact, it is not limited to third-graders. I once sat in a class of
intelligent undergraduates taking first-year Chinese. These were people who
could format APA citations on hand-written exams. When asked to write a
paragraph in Chinese, they often started at the edge of the paper, went all
the way to the other edge, leaving no margins.

The issue seems to be: are you comfortable enough with a language that some
portion of your brain can focus on whether what you're writing looks nice, or
are you straining so thoroughly just to control the micro motor movements that
these is no attention left for macro aesthetics?

~~~
diN0bot
haha. i took "justification" to mean inability to accept things outside their
control and wanting keep the science books right and not take away a "being"'s
favorite planet, home or friend.

------
Confusion
I don't understand the title. There isn't a hate mail to be found. Some of the
justifications are better than those of your average crackpot: at least most
of these kids realize they _want_ Pluto to be a planet, instead of arguing
that it _is_ a planet by some non-existing absolute standard.

~~~
philwelch
"at least most of these kids realize they want Pluto to be a planet, instead
of arguing that it is a planet by some non-existing absolute standard"

That's called "honesty". Or, more realistically, "not yet having learned how
to lie effectively".

~~~
electromagnetic
Actually, I'd say its that they haven't learned how to lie ineffectively.
Crackpots are usually deemed to be cracked-pots when they no longer make
enough sense to pay attention to. They argue by a self-standard of usefulness
instead of adapting.

~~~
philwelch
Well let me break down what I meant. The average adult who argues that Pluto
is a planet honestly just _wants_ Pluto to be a planet, but he knows that's
not a good argument and knows to manufacture another, more convincing argument
in its place. He even convinces himself that his rationalization is really the
reason why he thinks Pluto should be considered a planet. He lies to himself,
in other words.

Kids aren't necessarily clever or knowledgeable enough to think that far. But
kids can and do lie, and they're not always effective about it.

------
petenixey
When John Glidden grows up I want to employ him. Anyone who polls 11 of their
friends at age six and has a concept of what a Kuiper Belt Object is is
welcome in my company.

(Yes I accept that his mum may have driven the data collection but it comes to
the same thing. She's going to make sure he turns into a winner)

~~~
mseebach
She going to make sure that he's exposed to a world that lies behind that of
Playstations and 24h cartoon TV, and that's good.

But I also see the making of self-righteous, arrogant know-it-all. The kind of
person that will complain over all non-A grades because his mum told him he's
smarter than the teacher. Seriously, he's telling scientists how to do their
job. Blind obedience to seniority is a bad idea, but so is that " _sigh_ you
got it all wrong, here, now, let me show you"-attitude.

~~~
petenixey
"Know your place in the world and evaluate yourself fairly, not in terms of
the naïve ideals of your own youth, nor in terms of what you erroneously
imagine your teacher's ideals are" \- Richard Feynman

I doubt Feynman's reaction to the boy's letter would have been: "I also see
the making of self-righteous, arrogant know-it-all....Seriously, he's telling
scientists how to do their job".

There's not a single thing in the boy's letter that is factually incorrect.
It's merely a statement of opinion accompanied by some supporting data.

The child's name is in my comment. If you don't like something someone says
then critique their opinion but try not to be personal and rude, it only makes
you sound bitter.

~~~
mseebach
I'm not trying to emulate Feynman, and what I wrote wasn't a reaction to the
kids letter, but to your comment.

I'm not criticizing the child, I'm presenting an alternative scenario. I'm not
saying he going to end up like that, but I am saying that it's premature to
conclude he's going to be a particularly employable based on that letter.

------
Tichy
Thankfully no death threats, that would have been really disturbing.

------
petercooper
Semantically, Pluto is still a "planet" (as far as the definition of the word
goes linguistically), but is specifically classified as a _dwarf planet_ by
the International Astronomical Union.

It strikes me as disingenuous, then, for anyone to authoritatively state that
Pluto is "not a planet" without clarifying their use of the word "planet" - it
leads to a lot of confusion amongst the public who suddenly believe something
has physically changed, as we see here.

------
Groxx
I'm not feeling the hate. Certainly, they've identified Public Enemy #1 (anti-
Pluto-as-a-planet-ers), but they're quite civilized with it.

I particularly liked the sad Pluto & Uranus (Urectum?) / Saturn. I can't
decide if I think it's cute or funny, but it certainly made me laugh.

------
holdenc
Sometimes the most esoteric truths are the hardest to settle on.

~~~
Jach
Sometimes the questions are just malformed to begin with:
[http://lesswrong.com/lw/no/how_an_algorithm_feels_from_insid...](http://lesswrong.com/lw/no/how_an_algorithm_feels_from_inside/)

It's cute when third graders do it, but the phenomenon is not limited to
kids...

