

Ask HN: What keeps you away from starting startups?  - maheshs

Just finished reading "Ramen Profitable" of Paul Graham (http://paulgraham.com/ramenprofitable.html). Asking from you guys,  
What keeps you away from starting startups?
If you overcome from this, what is your story of survival?
======
yumraj
Here are some of my thoughts, obviously different things apply to different
people:

1) The Ramen-way works only for people who are fresh out of college or at
least are still with no liabilities. This doesn't work for people who have
families, mortgage etc. In this case the YC-type funding just doesn't cut it.
I would love to be proved wrong here with example(s) of YC company founders,
since that might give me motivation.

2) Most poeple need some validation of their ideas, especially if they have
more than one. Ideally it would be nice if YC, or someone else, can just help
people validate their ideas and provide input, and might even take a small
stake just for that service. Additional guidance along the way would be
awesome.

3) How to form a team? OK, I'm committed in my idea and my idea is validated,
where do I find at least 1-2 additional people I need. This is true especially
since not everyone is an expert in all the technologies. Attending Meetups
etc. is a way, hopefully there are others.

A lot of things around the cloud and hosting had really reduced the cost of an
initial launch, but some of the above bottlenecks still stay, at least IMO.

~~~
jnovek
"The Ramen-way works only for people who are fresh out of college or at least
are still with no liabilities."

This is simply not true. My wife and I have medical debt and my partner has a
family and a mortgage. You just work your 8 hour day job and come home and
work another 4 to 6 hours in the evening. It's not a lot of fun -- it took us
about a year to get to enough revenue to pay my salary.

~~~
biohacker42
_You just work your 8 hour day job and come home and work another 4 to 6
hours_

You are a better human being then me.

~~~
jnovek
That's not true. I just really, really wanted something.

------
cjg
I want more time with my family not less.

I prefer a steady income.

I'm uncertain whether the expected value of a startup is more than my current
income.

~~~
bkovitz
It sounds like you don't _want_ to run a start-up. Weighing expected return
against current income means you're only interested in results, not in playing
the game.

~~~
Gertm
When you have a family and a mortgage, it's not a game. Failure is not an
option. That's the main reason I don't do it.

------
adammarkey
I honestly think healthcare / health insurance is a major reason.

It's hard to be "ramen AND medical bills profitable" if you or one of your
founders has an urgent medical issue when you're trying to bootstrap
yourselves with no insurance.

The Obama administration should look at this issue and provide significantly
reduced healthcare to bootstrapped startups.

~~~
9oliYQjP
I for one know I couldn't have done it if it weren't for socialized (yes I'll
use that evil term) medicine here in Canada. Fortunately, I haven't been sick.
But I have gone to the doctor a few times over the past few years for routine
checkups/physicals. Actually, I did go once when I had a terrible bronchial
infection that I just couldn't seem to kick even after a few weeks. My doctor
gave me a bunch of free asthma inhalers when she heard I was self-employed.
The next year I got a free flu shot and didn't get sick. This was important
because had I gotten the flu it would have ended up in a huge amount of lost
productivity on the project I was working on and possibly resulted in public
failure for the stakeholders involved (we were constantly catching up the
whole way). Although to be fair, not getting the flu may have been coincidence
as the flu shot prevented a strain that was not prevalent this year. Flu
vaccine manufacturers always have to guess which strain they think will be
dominant and target it.

The routine physicals have led to me getting back into shape. My doctor also
did some blood work and discussed some changes I needed to make in my diet to
reduce the risk of developing some conditions that afflict other family
members. This is a major benefit of having a family doctor that everyone goes
to. When your other family members aren't insured and consequently don't see a
doctor, your doctor doesn't have as complete perspective of potential risks to
your health. Incidentally, I'm now earning more and contributing more to
taxes, so I feel like the money spent on covering my healthcare was a
worthwhile investment. And no, I didn't have to wait 6 months for a physical,
I waited precisely 9 days for the next schedule window that was convenient for
me. The flu shot was a walk-in procedure when I had an empty patch in my
schedule.

Healthcare shouldn't only be about tending to urgent matters. Not getting your
yearly physical is potentially like having a memory leak. You won't know
something is wrong until it's potentially too late and when you do find out,
it will be a major dilemma. All too often, even when healthcare costs are
covered, people just don't bother going. If you're a startup founder, don't
neglect your health, and make sure you take care of your body as well as you
would your car.

~~~
mahmud
OT:

9oliYQjP: you're one very interesting person but with a bad user name. Do you
mind putting a note in your profile with a more pronouncable name? Everytime I
read a comment of yours I am distracted by the machine generated name, which I
somehow pronounce in my head as "Nine Olly Qiyuu Jay Pee".

~~~
9oliYQjP
Heh, it is a machine generated name. I am by no means well-known or a public
figure, but some of the people I deal with regularly are. I have had the
unfortunate experience of having people digging up dirt on some of these
people try to use comments I posted to the Internet against them (e.g., an
extreme example of a similar situation is how difficult it was for Obama to
shake the notion that Reverend Wright's opinion was also his own). Around the
same time I had to undergo a security clearance. It got me thinking about the
breadcrumb trail I'd been leaving online. If I could change my cryptic alias
to something more readable I would. It just so happens the easiest way to
randomly come up with a username was to use the script I use to randomly
generate passwords with.

I've spent the past few years SEuO (search engine unoptimizing) my personal
online presence including quitting Facebook and started signing up to new
services with different aliases so that people can't so easily aggregate what
I say. It's kind of embarrassing how paranoid that sounds, but there's the
rationale. I don't mind defending my opinions, but I'm loathe to put my
friends in a position, as one was, to try to explain my opinion when they
might not share it. On the other hand, it's quite liberating being able to say
what I want without having to worry about the political costs associated with
those comments.

From PG's essay (<http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html>):

 _When you find something you can't say, what do you do with it? My advice is,
don't say it. Or at least, pick your battles._

My tactic online is to say it anyways but make sure nobody knows who said it
:)

~~~
kirubakaran
In future perhaps you can put two or three random words together to generate
the username.

For this account, you can ask email pg@ycombinator.com to change the username
to _woollymammoth_ (available)

------
seasoup
Knowledge that such a thing is possible when I first got out of college.
Everything about school directed me to look for a job afterwards. Then finding
a job was very easy, decent pay, big company. It wasn't until all these web
startups started making it big that it even became a thought that it was
possible to do such a thing, and then there is a lack of education about how
to start a company.

It's taken a lot of thinking and reading of YN essays to discover that it is
possible to start up a web company and that, in fact, I had all of the tools
at my disposal coming out of college to do it! I just didn't know it was
possible.

Now, I'm working for a late stage startup that has excellent potential and the
golden handcuffs are keeping me around until an IPO.

------
jnovek
What's interesting is, I see a lot of people saying, "I don't have a very good
idea."

For the record, my first swing was an awful idea -- social networking mumbo-
jumbo. Half-baked, totally impossible to monetize. Four of us worked on it for
about four months before the whole thing melted down and everyone but me
(including my wife!) quit one at a time.

When I finally gave up and let it die, I became deeply depressed. I didn't
even want to get out of bed. I felt like a total failure. But the truth was,
we discovered a bunch of really important things during the total-failure
startup. Those things stewed in my mind, and when the opportunity showed
itself, I tried again. Now all those important things that I learned are
contributing to my new company.

So, "I have a bad idea" is not much of an excuse. Take your free time and
start working on it. Put up a reality distortion field and make yourself
believe in it. Failing is also progress.

------
tocomment
A. I just can't shake the idea that the market for mainstream web apps is
saturated.

B. I can't find any ideas for niche markets because I'm not involved in any
niches except for programming and anything for programmers is definitely a
saturated market.

C. Cofounders I've come across have always flaked out. Granted I may have too
but I think if just one of us had been persistent it would have been enough.

D. Don't want to spend my savings.

E. I think that's it.

~~~
biohacker42
B. is a big one for a lot of people. I myself I am always trying to find
opportunities for cross training.

~~~
aditya
I think the interesting thing is that even if your niche looks saturated, but
you're solving a pain point that other people aren't there's a possibility of
(atleast) being ramen profitable.

It is not a zero-sum game, you're essentially growing the market by providing
a feature or value that other products don't.

------
plinkplonk
I don't want to do marketing/sales. I hate people trying to sell to me. I
don't want to do it to others. Hard to find a good, non slimy, trustworthy
business oriented guy to round me out.

I'd rather code full time, and talk to customers (as in support etc , not
sales). This attitude + the lack of a "business" partner stops me from
attempting a startup.

~~~
swombat
"I don't want to do sales" really shouldn't stop you. I don't want to do sales
either, and I haven't had to do much of it yet.

Not having a cofounder is a good reason not to start yet - but it's mostly a
good reason to go and look for a cofounder, rather than a reason to cancel
your start-up plans altogether.

~~~
plinkplonk
"Not having a cofounder is a good reason not to start yet - but it's mostly a
good reason to go and look for a cofounder, rather than a reason to cancel
your start-up plans altogether"

I completely agree. But in the meantime I am doing some fun stuff, (working on
AI algorithms and such when I am working and now doing a 6 month "technical
immersion" type thing <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=700891>) and so
that contributes to the "I'll do a startup sometime,but not just yet" feeling.

I guess I should change my reply to "Why aren't you doing a startup yet?" to
"lack of a business focussed co founder _and_ meanwhile I am doing other
interesting things, which doesn't leave me enough time and energy to go look
for one".

Thanks for that suggestion. It helped me clarify my thoughts.

------
elliottkember
I think I'm too critical of ideas. I'm just not convinced that any old idea
can make it - and so many have already been done. I've got the time and the
flexibility to be able to do it, but I just haven't settled on an idea.

~~~
JeremyChase
I often feel the same way because I shoot holes in 9 out of 10 of my own
ideas. I also think that you _should_ have some competitors as it demonstrates
that what you are doing actually has a market. Keep working on ideas, and work
on executing better than the other guys.

~~~
elliottkember
That's true, and it's a good point. Still, there's something to be said for an
established user-base. Most of the time one product dominates the market, even
though there are many other superior products out there.

I've done some reasonably interesting stuff - none of which was for-profit,
but also none of which was hugely successful. Turns out marketing is hard!

------
bkovitz
Some reasons:

1\. I have very little clue what gets people to spend money. I keep wanting at
least a plausible theory of how this could make money before I dive in. I am
particularly discouraged by the idea of making a web site that requires high
traffic in order to be ramen-profitable.

2\. I am easily distracted. I find myself getting sidetracked at all time-
scales: by administrative and sysadmin junk, by other project ideas, etc.

3\. I find it particularly hard to implement a software idea that I've come up
with myself. It's weird, but I find myself in a mode of "just wanting it done"
instead of enjoying the coding. No joy, no work.

4\. I don't tolerate mediocrity in my life. Just posted about this in another
thread: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=730261>

These all seem fixable.

~~~
bkovitz
Oops, I forgot the biggest reason: grad school.

I want to become a professor so I'm paid to indulge my curiosity, teach, and
write interesting books into my old age. I imagine that as a professor, as I
age into my 50s and 60s and 70s, I would be an appreciated contributor in a
loving community, and I imagine that as a start-up founder, I would be cast
aside in my old age the way they do in Ik society.

I am now at the age when there's not much time left to go down the professor
track and be successful.

If I wasn't trying to become a professor, I would do a start-up without
hesitation. The above four reasons wouldn't stop me.

My first year as a grad student was so miserable, I am now reassessing.

~~~
aditya
Why was it miserable?

and, why do you think that as an entrepreneur you won't still be building
businesses well into your 50s 60s and 70s with teams of ambitious and
motivated people?

~~~
bkovitz
Really good questions.

1\. Grad school was miserable because of time-fragmentation. Four simultaneous
projects (classes) => couldn't focus on any of them.

2\. I think that by nature, I am not really an entrepreneur. I'm a curious
person, a tinkerer, someone who mostly enjoys coming up with a really good
theory to explain some facts and open up new lines of thought and research.

I've met people with a genuinely entrepreneurial mentality: they can't help
but see how to negotiate a better deal, broker solutions to practical
problems, pounce on opportunities before the crowd values them correctly,
surprise their competitors with something unexpected. I admire those
qualities, but that sort of thing wears me out fast. Theorizing and seeding
other people with cool ideas, though—I never tire of those.

------
thismat
1.) I entered the developers and startup world late. It's only been about a
year since I've discovered PG and only a few since I took up programming as
more than just the occasional scripter.

2.) The market for web applications feels saturated, what happens when it
collapses?

3.) As a single father I'm even more worried about being able to provide for
my family. Not to mention the amount of chores around the house, and general
repairs and preventative maintenance.

4.) I know ideas are supposed to be a natural progressive thing, but as
someone else said, when you see your own flaws in every idea, or you have an
idea that seems like such a niche market it would be hard to gain any share,
it's discouraging.

As a counter point to all of these, my nature and spirit is in being an
entrepreneur, my grandfather bootstrapped a food service company in the 50s
that we sold in 2000, I convinced my parents to let me start an internet
cafe/print shop when I was 17, which would have done well if I had more
insight at the time, it still lasted over 5 years before I took a job for
general IT support (which led me into programming, the missing 'creative' void
I had been looking for).

If I was 21 instead of 27, and wasn't in the situation I was in, I'd be living
at home working on starting my own business...I long everyday to work from
home and be able to take a few months off every year to travel with the kids
the way I never got to when I was younger (we were extremely tied down to the
food service business).

There are a lot of variables to consider though, skillset being very important
as well. I work the extra 4-6 hours a nigh already doing freelance web
design/development, if I could find a good idea, I would put 100% towards it.

Too many paragraphs for a simple question? Sorry!

------
rudenoise
I have a mortgage and want a family, the insecurity is too high.

When I was younger I didn't have the skills and/or energy as I was acquiring
knowledge and experience.

Now I'm in a position to do something with those attributes: it has to be a
spare time effort - which doesn't seem to be enough.

~~~
Mankhool
I think you would be surprised. If all you have is spare time and part time
availability - do it anyway - many have (I'm one of them) and some are
successful (I'm just starting). What was the old saying about doing something
as a hobby, out of interest, and if it turns into a business - great! The
thing is to be as committed to it as a full time startup.

~~~
JeremyChase
The challenge of working on a project part-time is not a limit on time; it is
follow through. For example if you can give 15 hours a week to a project at
100% you will be able to build something significant within a few months. If
you don't have strong drive the 100% and 15 hours will both drop, and in the
end you'll just have an idea that never happened.

------
paul9290
Im a 31 yr old start-upper. I actually started my startup at 27/28ish; it was
my first start-up. I was about to buy my first home with money I saved for
such, but took the money and started up; stayed living with the parent I moved
in with to save money for a house two years prior.

So, it's a huge sacrifice and gamble you take to either lead the quote/unquote
normal life or start-up. If you start-up it becomes your life and entire
focus. I pretty much dropped off the radar of my friends and devoted all my
time and focus on my start-up. The journey it led me on was an awesome one re:
attention, publicity and getting funding. Though all that awesome stuff was a
great life journey it did not lead me to a healthy business that pays the
bills and now I'm back to looking to get into the real world.

My start-up is still active and ppl do use it (just not that many). Though the
things I learned from my first attempt and the journey it took me on has
taught me a ton. I have the fever to start-up all over again, yet doing so on
the side. The gamble was worth it just for the awesome experiences it led me
on, but now it's time to get on with life and dream/enjoy the experiences on
the side!

------
rjurney
Being broke from the last one? Usually spend a year or more catching up
financially. Its getting harder to do this.

Regarding insurance - If I didn't have a cheap policy I kept since I was 18, a
startup wouldn't even be an option - I'm uninsurable on an individual plan.

------
j2d2
I think most people are unsure how to make the transition from having a good
idea to forming a company around it. Many people here build stuff all the time
but often times don't seem to believe in the idea enough to put money into it,
yet also are unsure how to get money from others. My guess is that people just
aren't sure how, in spite of PG's best efforts.

My other guess would be that many ideas are largely just modifications of
things that already exist that a large company like facebook could easily
replicate. Coming up with brand new ideas is not easy.

~~~
adammarkey
Being a large company doesn't mean you can "easily replicate" things. The
major reason startups can wiggle their way into a market and become a player
is because large companies can't react in time to what an agile startup is
doing in their space.

~~~
j2d2
That's fair. Context is important here. I had facebook basically consuming
twitter's functionality in mind. I was also attempting to point out how little
innovation many ideas actually contribute.

Digression :: Has anyone noticed that myspace has recently ripped off a lot of
facebooks features too?

------
khafra
I'm fairly confident that I not in the top 50%-30% that actually makes it work
(for varying definitions of "work"). I've seen too many people who make me
feel like a lackadaisical moron fail at start-upping.

------
warp
I guess I'm a control freak. Having other people invest in my idea means I
have certain obligations to them, I would feel less free to go about things
the way I want to. Most of all it would create a sense of urgency which I
don't have now.

I also happen to have a decent job where I am the lead developer on a product
-- which in itself means I get to make the choices I want to make and I don't
have to worry about all the stuff I don't care about (sales/marketing,
finances, etc...).

------
Edinburger
One frustrating reason: I haven't found an idea with a sufficient chance of
success to justify my investment.

It's frustrating because I have execution skills (I've launched 'startups' for
larger companies), I could fund a small startup without external help and I
have access to good design & technical talent. Am I being unreasonably risk
averse? Lacking vision? Words of wisdom will be much appreciated!

~~~
Mankhool
Where do you look for ideas? I don't know any VCs or Angels personally, so
what is it like to be you? Do you belong to an Angel's group, scan Craigslist,
or rely on your network for introductions to people with ideas in need of
funding?

~~~
Edinburger
That's very interesting - I have seen myself as a self-funding founder than an
angel but given my lack of compelling ideas, perhaps that's where I'm going
wrong. Perhaps I should do more networking to find other people with ideas
where I can add execution skills and perhaps some funding.

------
biohacker42
Family members are financially dependent on me and I am far too good at
imagining all the ways in which my startup would NOT workout.

------
vaksel
my guess is for most people its fear of lack of skills..."how can I compete
against others with thousands of programmers"

~~~
aditya
and I wonder if that is a (mostly) false assumption?

------
eswat
I was simply oblivious to the idea that I could start a startup. My university
focused on getting their students primed and ready to work at Big Widget
Corporation and talk about startups was usually limited to references to Apple
or Microsoft in their heyday in the 80s.

When I finally did hear about Y-Combinator all this other amazing stuff, the
steady income from Big Widget Corporation still kept me from really going
ahead with a startup. Why walk off the beaten path?

But after 2 years in the corporate world, I'll be starting my startup soon.
What finally convinced me to go ahead? After witnessing the bureaucracy, red
tape and inefficiency of large corporations, I decided that I was too young
for this crap.

I'm edging towards 23-years old with no mortgages or debt/loans to pay and
plenty of money in bank. Guess now wouldn't be such a bad time...

------
ganley
My father (who did start a company) gave me the sage advice that you don't
want to start a company unless that company will be the absolute top priority
in your life.

------
swolchok
I'm currently a graduate student. I could drop out after I get my master's
degree, or finish my Ph.D. I realized that doing a startup sounds great, but
if it failed, as is very likely, I would regret walking away from grad school.

------
bgnm2000
Time, I need more time. (granted it doesn't stop me from starting startups, it
stops me from starting MORE startups). I need closer to 60 hours in a day.

------
pclark
not everyone is an entrepreneur

~~~
padmanabhan01
not everyone is meant to sit in a cubicle either. I think there are more
entrepreneur types sitting in a cubicle than vice-versa any given time.

~~~
pclark
obviously

------
wlievens
Lack of a good idea.

------
wicknicks
i need a team.... can't do it all on my own..

------
throw_away
my corp-job is actually pretty awesome.

------
stuffthatmatter
we'll be in a great depression soon

