
Apple Card launches today for all US customers - feross
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/08/apple-card-launches-today-for-all-us-customers/
======
js2
This is not a card for people looking to maximize rewards. It’s for Apple
users who want decent benefits and no fees, who will mostly use Apple Pay.
(Apparently it’s also good for folks establishing a credit history who might
not otherwise get approved.)

I’ve got 300k points between AmEx and Chase and I recently realized I can’t
ever use them when I want to. I don’t want to play all the games of which
points can I use where and when. I don’t want an annual fee. I don’t want to
have to juggle several different cards. I don’t want to have to “activate”
this quarter’s latest deals. So I just switched to a straight 2% cash back
card.

My one exception was keeping the Chase Amazon card since it’s 5% back at Whole
Foods and that’s too much to turn down.

But I made the Apple Card my other exception today. My credit files are
unfrozen at the moment as I juggle cards so I decided why not grab it. It was
a simple application process and I tied it to my Apple ID so I get 3% back
from Apple for my iTunes and iCloud purchases.

I don’t get folks coming here to criticize the card. It’s just a credit card.
Take it or leave it.

~~~
tidepod12
I get not wanting to have to "activate" each quarter's deals (though really,
it's literally a single button push once every three months...), but I don't
get your point on any of the other stuff.

Both AmEx and Chase have multiple cards that earn points that have no annual
fees. Both of their point programs can be redeemed for straight cash back
(just like the Apple Card, except Chase's offers better cash back percentage).
And both can easily be added to Apple/Google Pay and be used just like you
will use an Apple Card.

It's not so much criticism of the card as much as it is criticism of people
who are for some reason hyped up about it. Like most Apple stuff, there are
always a weird group of people obsessing over it and will go to strange
lengths to defend it. This is weird, because, as you said, it's just a credit
card. It would be less weird if it was at least a _good_ credit card that
people were defending, but it's not even that.

~~~
millstone
What's exciting about Apple Card is not that it will put more money in my
pocket, but how it modernizes payments. I signed up yesterday morning, and
made my first purchase a few hours later. Unlike my current card, the app
doesn't try to push "special offers" and I think it won't share my purchase
history with "affiliates." I can see my purchase on a map, and Apple can't -
nice.

It's a pretty cool experience and I hope Apple Card sets a new baseline.

~~~
snaky
Honest question - why anybody would want her purchases on the map?

~~~
iams
If see a transaction you don't recognise. By looking at it on a map it may
remind you of that small shop you bought something from. Or it might be in a
town you've never been to.

------
lode
Tip for those signing up: when you sign up you agree to arbitration (ie.
signing away the right to sue in court), but you can opt-out within 90 days.

Opting out can be done right on your phone, through messages:
[https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/20/20813800/apple-card-
pay-a...](https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/20/20813800/apple-card-pay-
arbitration-clause-goldman-sachs-credit-how-to-opt-out)

~~~
jxcl
For what it’s worth, almost every bank/card I’ve signed up for has this
clause. Apple is the only one I’ve seen where you can opt out by text message,
usually it requires mailing a letter.

~~~
Someone1234
It isn't worth anything. This saves them money.

Plus in all cases they bury it in the terms and expect nobody to notice/opt
out. It is a practice illegal elsewhere[0] and Apple doing something to save
themselves money doesn't make them the consumer's hero, it is still an immoral
anti-consumer practice that should be illegal.

Now if they required that you select opt in during sign up, that would be
quite different. But that's not the case. Instead it is on Page 14/15 on an
agreement you don't even need to read.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_arbitration#Consumer_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_arbitration#Consumer_arbitration_outside_the_United_States)

------
adamredwoods
What I found interesting:

\- No card number

\- "At Apple, we firmly believe in your right to privacy. That’s why we
created a unique architecture for Apple Card that generates things like your
transaction history and spending summaries right in the Wallet app on your
iPhone.

Of course, Goldman Sachs will use your data to operate Apple Card. But they
will never share or sell your data to third parties for marketing or
advertising."

\- "Apple will not charge a late fee or apply a new high-interest penalty rate
for a missed payment. However, customers will continue to accrue interest on
their balance at their regular interest rate. "

\- The APRs are still relatively high, when compared to how low other
borrowing rates are.

~~~
ceejayoz
There is a card number, it's just not printed on the card. You can access it
via the Wallet app on the connected phone.

~~~
danillonunes
If this number is leaked somehow, you can block it and get a new one right
from the wallet app. They don't say anything about having to request a new
physical card after that, so I believe this number you see on the app is not
the same of the internal-only, not printed number of the physical card.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
The card has a magnetic stripe, so they must have _some_ solution to the
magstripe number being stolen

~~~
oblio
Why does it even have a magnetic stripe in this day and age, as a completely
new tech product from Apple?

~~~
mrweasel
Because it's not a tech product, it's a credit card, and plenty of places, in
the US at least, still require the use of a magnetic strip. As for how they
deal with a changing card number, I have no idea.

------
fitzroy
My biggest hope for this card is that it encourages far more people to use
Apple Pay (2% vs 1% cash back), which, in turn, encourages more retailers to
optimize the checkout process for contactless, and hopefully gets rid of
having to use that gross stylus that everybody touches to sign that low-res
LED screen with something that looks nothing like my signature.

And it would also be great if it encourages US restaurants to switch to using
the portable machine at your table instead of taking your card away.

~~~
whoopdedo
Signatures are no longer required with chip cards.

~~~
fredophile
I'm travelling in Europe right now and I can tell you that signatures are
definitely still required with the chip. The only exception is if I use the
one card I have with contactless payment.

~~~
hvidgaard
You normally use a pincode. I cannot remember the last time I had to sign
anything anywhere in EU when paying with a chip card.

~~~
rconti
US chip cards require a signature in Europe virtually 100% of the time, even
on low-value transactions that would be under the signature threshold in the
US.

However, using contactless avoids signatures 99% of the time. I think I had to
sign _once_ on my last trip at a contactless terminal.

~~~
ghaff
That's actually my main use for Apple Pay. It's easier in Europe as a way to
avoid having to do the signature thing (which the cashier is often not
prepared for) with my US chip card. But it only works up to $30 or so.

~~~
hvidgaard
What do you mean with it only works up to $30? I pay bills of several
thousands with Apple Pay without pin or signature - I am from EU, but I expect
them to work the same.

~~~
ghaff
Per Apple Support (US page): United Kingdom You might not be able to use Apple
Pay for purchases over 30 GBP.

[https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207435](https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT207435)

I've almost exclusively just tried to use it in the UK and this has been my
experience at convenience stores.

~~~
hvidgaard
Jeez, that really limits Apple Pay. I don't carry my CC because I have Apple
Pay.

~~~
ghaff
I had assumed the restriction was more widespread but it seems to be (mostly)
a UK thing for some reason. (Though France as well I see.) I hadn't really
looked into it because I almost always have a card with me in the US--given
how many places don't take Apple Pay--and most of my European travel is UK.

ADDED: Apple's support page mostly says "Your mileage may vary." I haven't
tried to do larger purchases more than once or twice when they didn't work
because I don't want to be the guy holding up the line fiddling with payment
options. I don't know if I got unlucky or if it's the norm.

------
nknealk
I was recently in England. Nearly every payment terminal supports contactless
in the cities I visited. I found myself using Apple Pay throughout the trip
because it was fast and convenient. Also in restaurants they bring a payment
terminal out to your table so you can pay with Apple Pay.

Unfortunately, contactless payment terminals are somewhat more rare in the
USA. My local grocery store (Kroger) doesn’t have them.

~~~
freyr
It's weird that we lag so far behind in some areas, even when we help develop
the technology.

~~~
elSidCampeador
According to Mastercard CEO Ajay Banga[1], they've noticed that if the
transport system in an area becomes contactless enabled, then contactless
adoption ramps up faster.

[1] - [https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-
transcripts/2019/07/30/ma...](https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-
transcripts/2019/07/30/mastercard-inc-ma-q2-2019-earnings-call-
transcript.aspx) Search the page for "transport" and go to the first result.

~~~
rkangel
Anecdotally - London use of contactless certainly accelerated when the
Underground started taking contactless.

------
cascom
I’ve been using the card for several weeks, couple of thoughts:

\- signup and activation is pretty slick

\- Like the physical card

\- privacy element if it is real is best selling point - not sure it’s real,
but really the only reason I would keep using the card

\- rewards are lackluster (but enjoy daily cash remit)

\- can’t download your transactions which is idiotic

\- transaction categorization is pretty poor at the moment (e.g. United
Airlines (Travel) shows up as United Club (Food Dining)

\- interest rate is high for those that might carry a balance

\- ancillary benefits are limited/lackluster I.e. status in a hotel chain or
insurance coverage etc.

~~~
avan
Have you noticed any wear and tear on the card itself? I've got a mostly white
credit card (not metal) that is stained from my wallet and sliding it and
such, just curious.

~~~
cascom
It doesn’t look too bad now - but you can tell it’s going to wear pretty
quickly

------
traderjane
As a privacy product the Apple Card is interesting, but as a financial product
the interest rates are high and the rewards boring. All it takes is another
bank to say "we will also have a strong and clear privacy agreement with you"
and they will match Apple in my mind.

~~~
ghaff
>rewards boring

I mostly like "boring" when it comes to card rewards. I find the more
"exciting" they get the harder rewards are to use or at least to use in a way
that actually is of more value than a theoretically smaller amount of cash,
e.g. flight and hotel upgrades that are nice enough but which I wouldn't
actually pay for out of my pocket.

------
oceanghost
For a moment I was excited that Hypercard was coming back.

------
brohoolio
Pretty slick application process. Very quick approval. I’m digging the
privacy.

But it didn’t work when I tried to buy lunch. I’ll try again tomorrow.

~~~
offmycloud
Privacy? It's still a credit card. MasterCard still gets all your purchase
data and can do whatever they want with it. Goldman Sachs gets your SSN,
credit report, and bank account info.

~~~
Gaelan
Apple says something about Goldman not using the data for anything more than
necessary. I don’t think they mans any guarantees about MasterCard.

------
lunchladydoris
I can't believe that people are excited for a credit card.

~~~
tidepod12
I had a hearty laugh when I saw a seven minute unboxing video for the Apple
Card on the front page of reddit. An _unboxing video_ for a _credit card_ that
was somehow stretched into 7 minutes. The video included genius quotes such as
"it fits into my wallet" and "it's about the same size as my other credit
cards". This is the content that somehow got thousands of upvotes.

It's seriously amazing how far the apple fandom has come.

~~~
twiceaday
Is it your intention to miss-lead or do you not realize that the credit card
is made entirely out of Titanium, which is a novel concept and obviously
raises questions about weight, size, and look.

~~~
tidepod12
"novel"? Is it your intention to miss-lead [sic] or do you not realize that
metal credit cards have been a thing for _decades_?

The Chase Sapphire Reserve/Preferred, two of the most popular credit cards in
recent years, are metal cards. The Amazon credit card is metal. The AmEx
Platinum is a metal card. And this is just a handful of cards among the 22
listed here [1].

1: [https://www.creditcardinsider.com/blog/metal-credit-
cards/](https://www.creditcardinsider.com/blog/metal-credit-cards/)

~~~
twiceaday
That is a cool story about some non-Titanium cards.

~~~
guessmyname
> _That is a cool story about some non-Titanium cards._

You may want to read the linked page by the parent commentator a bit better:

Mastercard® Titanium Card™ — [https://www.creditcardinsider.com/credit-
cards/mastercard-ti...](https://www.creditcardinsider.com/credit-
cards/mastercard-titanium-card/)

~~~
kube-system
Here’s the second sentence on that page: > This card is constructed with
stainless steel on the front and carbon in the back.

------
4ntonius8lock
1% back using the card?

I make few purchases with less than 3%.

In terms of security, I've had my card cloned. Within minutes the bank locked
the account and had a new card shipped. Hardly a big pain point they are
solving. And most of us have more than one, so if any of our cards are down,
we have others. It's merchants that currently carry the cost of low quality
financial instrument standards we have.

For privacy, if I valued it over the $x,xxx I get back every year in the form
of cash back, free insurance on rentals, etc, I'd use the most private of all
instruments.... Cash.

Pretty mediocre card if you ask me. Of course, the cool factor will make this
a success. They only need the right % of the cool crowd to move in on it, and
the rest will follow the virality. Oh us humans.

~~~
Brendinooo
How are you doing 3%? Rolling rewards? Doesn't seem like there are a lot of 3%
cards out there without an annual fee or a set of conditions to try and
fulfill.

2% on all Apple Pay purchases is pretty straightforward.

~~~
electic
Not to mention the 2% and 3% cash back are for certain categories and there
are limits to how much you can get back in a given year with other cards.

For example, most cards will allow you to get a 2% cash back up to $6,000 per
year. I have yet to find a card that has unlimited 2% cash back on ALL
purchases.

Apple Card is unlimited 2% back, no category restrictions, as long as you use
Apple Pay. That's quite a deal.

~~~
huy-nguyen
Citi double cash gives a flat 2% back for any purchase.

~~~
electic
The way the Citi Double Cash Card works is you get 1% for every dollar spent
and 1% for every dollar paid.

\- It is actually 1.98% because when you apply it to a statement credit you
are not really paying off the full total. You get a straight 2% back, daily,
with Apple Card.

\- There is also a redemption minimum with Citi, in this case there needs to
be at least $25 dollars in cash back before you can claim it. Apple doesn't
have that.

\- Citi card has foreign transaction fees. Apple Card does not.

\- The rewards "expire" with Citi. Apple's doesn't.

\- Citi's rewards are given to you after your first statement is paid off and
higher than 25 dollars. Apple's is given daily, and you can do what you want
with those cash rewards.

~~~
wycy
> \- It is actually 1.98% because when you apply it to a statement credit you
> are not really paying off the full total. You get a straight 2% back, daily,
> with Apple Card.

You get a straight 1% back, daily, with Apple Card (except for Apple Pay
purchases).

------
kkarakk
>Apple cares about privacy

Card is backed by Goldmansachs, they don't give two hoots about your privacy

>It has 1 percent cashback! Straight to money! I don't understand how credit
cards work!

Yeah if you don't care about money enough to think this is good deal, you'll
probably get the card asap and probably shouldn't

