
L-theanine, a constituent in tea, and its effect on mental state (2008) [pdf] - lainon
http://apjcn.nhri.org.tw/server/APJCN/17%20Suppl%201//167.pdf
======
Cynddl
> The control solution was 100 ml of cool potable water and the L-theanine
> solution was prepared by dissolving 0.5 mg powdered L-theanine (Taiyo Kaguka
> Co. Ltd., Yokkaichi, Japan) per Kg participant body weight in a tea infusion
> (total L-theanine 50mg/serving).

So, there was a statistically significant difference in brain activity between
participants who drank cool water and participants who drank (hot?) tea with
added L-theanine. Curious setting.

~~~
amluto
I find drinking a good cup of tea or other tea-like infusions to be quite
relaxing. More so if I get to step it myself. I suspect that there’s a
meaningful non-chemical effect, and this study has no ability whatsoever to
discern whether L-theanine is involved.

~~~
staunch
Try drinking just the hot water by itself. It's surprising and amusing how
much of the effect you get. Pretty sure it was a Paul Graham tweet that
pointed this out to me.

~~~
colechristensen
Hot water with lemon, morning or night, is excellent.

~~~
ythn
With a touch of honey

~~~
vorpalhex
There is a Russian beverage made by adding a ton of good quality honey to hot
boiling water that is supposed to be an excellent cold remedy. No idea if it
actually _does_ anything, but it is delicious and soothing.

~~~
Zelphyr
I think honey is supposed to have natural antibiotic properties.

But also be careful about using too much of a ton of honey. Apparently the
body will naturally purge an excess of honey ingested at once.

~~~
roywiggins
It might work as a antimicrobial (ie, applied externally) because it contains
hydrogen peroxide but as to whether it can do anything about a cold (which is
after all a virus) is another question.

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3609166/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3609166/)

~~~
ianai
The enzymes react with moisture in your skin to create hydrogen peroxide -
read that somewhere. It also cuts off air flow to any bacteria. I think the
sugar also acts against the critters.

------
ninjakeyboard
In case anyone is curious about L-Theanine, it's very often used by people
with interest in Nootropics for focus along side caffeine. The Theanine-
Caffeine stack is considered to be the sort of entry or gateway into nootropic
territory.

~~~
evincarofautumn
Out of curiosity, is there much discussion in that community of other xanthine
stimulants like theophylline, theobromine, and 8-chlorotheophylline? I take
dimenhydrinate = 1:1 diphenhydramine + 8-CTP to relieve nausea, and from the
feel of it I’d like to try 8-CTP on its own (or in conjunction with L-thea)
because (like theobromine) it seems to be nicely stimulating while give me
less anxiety than caffeine. Seems to be fairly cheap at around USD 65¢/g from
chemical supply companies, but I don’t know how much I really want to get into
that “just buy it and try it” world if it (or something like it) is available
OTC.

~~~
ninjakeyboard
I would be careful with dimenhydrainate as it is found to be related to
dementia likely due to the fact that it's anticholinergic. It's basically the
opposite of a nootropic.

~~~
evincarofautumn
Yeah. :/

I was aware of this already—thanks for bringing it up though, since I think
it’s important that people be aware of it. Unfortunately I haven’t found an
equally effective yet safer replacement for nausea & allergies. Ginger works
pretty well, but iirc that’s because it’s also a mild
anticholinergic/antihistamine.

------
dokka
Unfortunately, it's yet another GABA agonist, and after it wears off, I get
severe brain fog. Also, it has diminishing returns. If I take it more than 3
days in a row, it does nothing. So many of the supplements and nootropics that
I've tried for programming are the same way. The only three that I take now
are caffeine(daily), nicotine(rarely) and adderall(very rarely).

~~~
rednerrus
Have you tried Ar/modafinil?

~~~
nomel
There are too many deaths linked to modafinil for me to try it.

~~~
john_minsk
Link?

------
notyourloops
L-theanine completely destroys my ability to sleep. I've tested a few times
now. Dosage used was 100mg, taken early in the day. It's like I get stuck in
super light sleep where I'm practically dreaming but awake.

~~~
revx
Agreed. N=1 anecdotal evidence, but I generally can't get to sleep after green
tea in the afternoon.

~~~
ceedan
Green tea does have caffeine, so I'm not sure if your side effects are related
to L-theanine. I also have trouble sleeping as well when I have afternoon
caffeine. I don't feel awake, but I just cannot sleep. It took a while for me
to associate this with late caffeine.

------
thrownblown
I love the stuff!Improves caffeine absorption and is great for performance
anxiety. I use it before bike racing or public speaking. The mental state I
would describe as clear, calm, present and focused.

~~~
nkozyra
Anecdotally, I noticed a super mild effect. I drink between 8-10 cups of
coffee a day and if I hit that upper limit it dulls the anxiety but not in any
pronounced way.

~~~
komali2
>8-10 cups of coffee a day

Is this... Safe? I mean, if I told me dentist this she would slap me, let
alone my cardiologist.

~~~
kpil
Yes probably. I think the warning against coffee haven't really been based on
anything else than "common sense" and possibly that it's a recreational drug.

Maybe it's border line if you already have arrhythmia, but recent studies
seems to show positive effects up to that limit, and it doesn't seem to
_cause_ arrhythmia.

Might upset your stomach though, but I'm pretty sure your dentist will be
happy to polish your teeth for a modest price...

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26394673?otool=karolib&t...](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26394673?otool=karolib&tool=karolinska)

There seems to be several positive effects on breast cancer , diabetes,
Parkinsons, ms, and stroke.

[https://breast-cancer-
research.biomedcentral.com/articles/10...](https://breast-cancer-
research.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13058-015-0521-3)

Etc...

------
thegabez
I've tried it in the past with coffee. It's an interesting additive as it
gives you the relaxed tea feeling but with the focus of coffee. Within a few
uses the body adapts and more is needed to get the same results. After a few
usages I found it not worth the extra effort.

------
rufio1
For me, Coffee + L-Theanine = Super Focus. 200MG serving.

~~~
jklinger410
What is your coffee to theanine ratio?

~~~
zolthrowaway
Not OP, but me 2.5:1 theanine to caffeine. 500mg theanine, 200mg caffeine. It
really does wonders for me personally.

------
nopinsight
L-theanine appears beneficial to mood and attention with negligible short-term
side effects.

I wonder, though, what long-term side effects L-theanine supplement might
cause. I searched several times but most information on long-term consumption
is anecdotal.

The best site on the Web for summaries of studies on supplement efficacy
appears to be:
[https://examine.com/supplements/theanine/](https://examine.com/supplements/theanine/)

------
ClassyJacket
"The control solution was 100 ml of cool potable water and the L-theanine
solution was prepared by dissolving 0.5 mg powdered L-theanine (Taiyo Kaguka
Co. Ltd., Yokkaichi, Japan) per Kg participant body weight in a tea infusion
(total L-theanine 50mg/serving). "

Why wouldn't the L-theanine solution be L-theanine in water? Including tea
would introduce other chemicals, including caffeine, no?

Also:

"AUTHOR DISCLOSURES Gail Owen is an employee of Unilever, which markets food
products some of which contain L-theanine and caffeine."

------
yasp
Seems to help me sleep, anecdotally.

~~~
SurrealSoul
I take before bed as well, it helps calm those crazy before-bedtime thoughts
and just lets me dooze off

------
_emacsomancer_
So in order to get to this level without taking supplements, it would be about
2.5 cups of tea? Or more? (Since they seemed to have added L-theanine to a cup
of tea.)

~~~
rellui
Looking at what's contained in black tea, 20 mg, yes. I wonder if this helps
explain the popularity of tea and the general idea that drinking tea helps you
calm down.

~~~
hinkley
Wikipedia suggests that longer brewing time is necessary to get the full dose
of l theanine, for which I'd recommend a quality loose leaf tea, and reuse the
leaves a couple times (make several cups consecutively in the same day).

My fancy loose leaf tea habit is about $6 a week, or about one latte with tax
and tip. It's cheaper, fewer calories, and I don't get agitated like I
occasionally do with coffee on an empty stomach. You still get away from your
desk (which I think is half the point of going for a coffee anyway), but not
for as long.

My dealer knows that some teas will keep you awake and some that won't. Some
will have that info but maybe not know the connection with l-theanine.

~~~
pard68
Check out [San Francisco Herb Co.][1], quality bulk tea at great prices. This
is how we curbed our tea expenses. You will need to buy $45 worth of product
for them to ship, but they have a lot of oover great stuff --or get someone to
go in with you on an order.

[1]: [http://www.sfherb.com/](http://www.sfherb.com/)

------
Oddstrider
"These data indicate that L-theanine, at realistic dietary levels, has a
significant effect on the general state of mental alertness or arousal."

------
yani
I have tried supplementing with the amino acid in the past. I have tried with
50 100 200 and 400mg The best dose for me was 200mg It makes me very sleepy
and it does not help with concentration. I tried to combine it with caffeine
but the result was not good. For concentration, coffee is the best for me. For
sleeping I use melatonin but only if I pull a long night

------
cies
Too bad that tea contains so much fluoride.

Outlined in this paper "Risk Assessment of Fluoride Intake from Tea in the
Republic of Ireland and its Implications for Public Health and Water
Fluoridation"

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4808922](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4808922)

~~~
willio58
Seems to me that this just says the water used to make the tea has fluoride.
And Ireland just has significantly more fluoride than most places.

~~~
n4r9
It's both the water and the fluoride content of the tea leaves, although the
tea leaves are the main contributor. The first table in the paper shows this.

Edit: spelling and comprehension corrected; pre-tea morning fog.

~~~
cies
Thanks for actually reading, unlike the parent.

------
fizixer
L-theanine does nothing for me, when I take it with coffee.

If I have to very charitable, it probably reduces jitters that I otherwise get
from coffee-only. But I'm not sure if it's a real effect or a placebo.

------
delbel
If I take L-theanine and L-glutamine, I get a euphoric high. Anybody else
notice this? How to screw up and up regulate GABA receptors 101...

------
merinowool
L-theanine never worked for me. Even tried large doses and felt no difference.
Maybe reading such articles causes placebo effect?

~~~
89vision
interesting anecdotal response to the well cited research

~~~
wolco
These comments represent many anecdotal opinions. That's the value of comments
around this article.

Science has proven this can have an affect. But even the study doesn't
conclude this is 100% for everyone.

------
syntaticSugar
r/nootropics

------
speeq
> Gail Owen is an employee of Unilever, which markets food products some of
> which contain L-theanine and caffeine.

It's interesting how many brands Unilever owns:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unilever_brands](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unilever_brands)

~~~
BayesStreet
This outcome looks positive for their Lipton brand. They might have a good
viral marketing department, but that's none of my business.

Unilever's tea beverage market share worldwide is estimated to be 11.1 percent
in 2016. Source:Statistica

~~~
ythn
> They might have a good viral marketing department, but that's none of my
> business.

Unsure if you are a part of the viral campaign yourself or if it was just a
subtle joke...

~~~
rbanffy
It depends on him being green.

------
mkirklions
Assuming the data is good and there wasnt bias, the question becomes-Does this
frequency between 8-13hz matter for performance?

Is having a 0.3mV2 difference in alpha waves significant?

Ive tried taking lTheanine and it doesnt seem to do much, even if I take many
pills.

~~~
satsuma
cursory research led me to believe that l-theanine on its own doesn't do much
of anything. adding caffeine seems to be the ticket to the proposed
improvements.

wonder if there's a way to package l-theanine and caffeine together into one
supplement. maybe that's what those gas station "super focus!!1" pills use? i
might give it a try this upcoming semester, i generally don't mind being a
supplements guinea pig.

~~~
jdietrich
_> wonder if there's a way to package l-theanine and caffeine together into
one supplement_

It's called "tea".

------
21
Brain waves were fine-tuned over many thousands years of evolution.

Stuff which modifies them greatly as this study seems to show probably has
some sort of side effects.

Otherwise nature would have boosted them already.

~~~
nkozyra
> Stuff which modifies them greatly

Like ... food? This is an amino acid, the building block of protein. Many
amino acids have pronounced effect in the body or when lacking.

Our bodies are fine-tuned to be somewhat fault-tolerant, but evolution is
extraordinarily slow. If our diets diverge over a few hundred years, there
haven't been nearly enough evolutionary cycles to compensate for whatever
effect that has; particularly if it's minor annoyances like getting jittery
with coffee, which was consumed far less as far back as a few hundred years
ago.

~~~
zimpenfish
> evolution is extraordinarily slow

Wouldn't this entirely depend on selection pressure, rate of mutation, and
turnover of, er, subjects? Certainly bacteria can evolve extremely rapidly and
it's been noted in animals too, cf
[http://discovermagazine.com/2015/march/19-life-in-the-
fast-l...](http://discovermagazine.com/2015/march/19-life-in-the-fast-lane)

