
How America lost its love for the stick shift - acheron
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/05/audi-kills-manual-transmission-cars-america-lost-love-for-stick-shift.html
======
t0mbstone
Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual
transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic:

Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic.

I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go
traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was
fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time.

Oh, and as a side note, my new car with an automatic transmission and a 400+
HP engine accelerates from zero to 60 faster and smoother than any one of my
previous cars. I will never go back! And I have paddle shifters, if I ever
want to manually control the gears.

~~~
chrisdhoover
I just do like the truckers do, leave it in second and crawl. It helps to not
be concerned with maintaining a 6 inch gap with the car ahead.

I truly believe that stop and go is caused by automatics. All of the brake
tapping tends to bunch people up at the end of long lines forcing them to a
complete stop. In a manual just let off on the gas a little and the engine
brakes a little, no brake lights to create cascading braking

~~~
freddie_mercury
> I truly believe that stop and go is caused by automatics.

A simple hypothesis like this is easy to test: does stop and go traffic exist
in places that are predominantly manual transmissions?

I live in Asia and I can tell you unequivocally that, yes, stop and go traffic
still exists even when every single person has a manual transmission.

~~~
mseidl
It has been proven that one person over braking when there was no need can
cause a traffic jam for hours.

~~~
_fizz_buzz_
But it hasn't been proven that this happens more with automatic transmissions.

~~~
tomohawk
But it is pretty obvious. In an automatic, you pretty much have to touch the
brakes to slow down. In a manual, you have other options. Taking your foot off
the gas in a manual tends to slow the car quite a bit more than in an
automatic, for example.

~~~
flurdy
While technically true, there is not much practical difference.

Like on a motorbike I tend to tweak slow speeds with the clutch only and leave
the throttle in one position most of the time.

With an automatic car since the brakes are not binary and automatic gearboxes
have often forward creeping I only tweak the brakes. Helps to force the
gearbox into 2nd gear as well for even slower creeping.

In fact, I think automatic gearboxes reduces traffic jams as fewer parts to
think of so less likely to accidentally make a mistake and cause congestion.

Wonder how many jams are due to accidental stalling a manual gearbox.

Traffic jams without an automatic gearbox is no fun. (or even less fun)

------
LeonM
In Europe, the manual/automatic situation is quite the opposite of that in the
USA. Here all standard, cheap cars are manual, and only the expensive luxury
cars have automatic transmissions. (At least in the Netherlands) driving
lessons/tests must done in manual cars, unless you have some medical reason
not to (then you'll also get a note on your license, prohibiting you from
driving manual cars).

Automatic transmissions are therefore regarded as either boring, or for people
who do not have the skills to drive a manual.

I drive a car with an automatic transmission and people always ask me why I'd
drive a 'boring' car. Then I explain it is actually 'sporty' because it has
paddle shifters (which I never use), and suddenly it becomes acceptable again.

~~~
J-dawg
In the UK you don't need a medical reason, you can simply choose to take an
automatic test. But then of course you can only drive automatic cars, just
like in the Netherlands.

Ironically I believe an American who has never driven a manual would be able
to come here and rent one, because (please correct me if I'm wrong) their
licences don't distinguish between the two.

I think manuals are slowly on the way out here as well, although they'll
persist for a long time on cheaper cars, and a few sportier cars.

A friend's new (automatic) Audi has both faster 0-60 and higher MPG (and lower
CO2 output) than the manual equivalent, so manual gearboxes are becoming more
difficult to justify, even for petrolheads.

~~~
Fifer82
What if I have an Automatic Driving Licence (UK) and I go to America and rent
a Stick Shift then the Police pull me over?

Also could I go to a developing country, get a licence there, then it is valid
in the UK and America?

These questions came to mind when I read your comment.

~~~
J-dawg
These are interesting questions! I don't know the answers, but I guess
international law is often bad at dealing with edge cases.

~~~
lostlogin
Is it an international law situation?

~~~
J-dawg
I am probably using the wrong terminology. I guess there are reciprocal
agreements between countries to recognise each others driving licences. I'm
not sure whether that counts as international law.

------
skywhopper
I love driving stick, but I have no illusions that I make better decisions
about what gear to be in when than good automatics/CVTs, and I know I'm not
saving gas the way I drive. Now, many automatics still bother me or even feel
dangerous with their sluggishness, but there are great ones out there that I
am happy to drive.

But the American market is definitely to the point now where it makes total
sense to just eliminate the option for a stick shift. Not enough people can
drive it, and so few adults have them that their kids aren't learning either.
It's to the point that it's actually difficult to find a good quality new car
with a stick shift.

And then that in turn means you can't trust your car to anyone else. Valet
parking is downright dangerous. My wife's car had its clutch literally melted
by an incompetent valet driver, and the car was barely driveable when we got
it back. We managed to limp to the dealer, and we got our insurance to pay,
but it was a hassle. I'm not sure it's worth the risk if you are in a
situation where you need to ever hand over your car to someone else. I will
not be using valet parking anymore, that's for sure.

~~~
philwelch
Learning to drive stick is still a useful skill if you want to operate heavy
trucks or ride motorcycles, neither of which tend to have an automatic
transmission. It’s not an option that I would want to go away.

Also, I might have used valet parking once in my life. Handing my car over to
someone who can’t drive stick is something I’m willing to live
without—especially when you remember that many car thieves can’t drive stick,
either ;)

~~~
ObsoleteNerd
Most big trucks and farm equipment are automatic now (source: family of
truckers and farmers). The takeover was quite recent but I don't know any
truck companies buying manuals these days other than owner-drivers who are
enthusiasts about their trucks too (eg the type to modify and do them up).

I'm a massive car nut, I've owned and (amateur-)raced dozens of cars over the
last 20 years and always went manual, but a couple years ago I switched to
auto due to a bad leg and honestly, if my leg miraculously got better, I'd
stay with an auto. Modern automatics are amazing. They shift faster than I
ever could, and performance autos can still engine-brake into corners etc. I'm
very much a convert for pure performance reasons as well as easy/comfort
reasons.

I don't want manuals to go away though, and I don't think they will. There's
lots of car manufacturers that still cater to small niche groups because these
days with populations the size they are, a small niche group is still enough
people to profit off. I think we'll still see performance cars and motorcycles
with manuals for many years to come, but all mainstream/bulk cars will be auto
only.

~~~
analog31
Indeed, even at the level of mundane passenger cars, I think automatics have
gotten a lot better. My first car was a 1975 Dodge with 3-speed automatic. You
kind of had to "play" it, in order to make it shift at the right time, e.g.,
for passing.

My family now has a Toyota minivan. The transmission shifts smoothly and
intelligently, and downshifting with the gear selector when descending in the
mountains seems to be no problem.

Even better, we rented a big passenger van this summer in Europe, and its
transmission seemed to "know" when we were on a descent, and downshifted
accordingly. It was pretty cool.

------
Someone1234
There's little argument for manual transmission anymore except in larger
vehicles. There used to be an efficiency gap, in that a good manual driver was
more efficient than an automatic.

But two things have happened since then, we have computer controlled
transmissions and CVTs.

Manual drivers were more efficient because they learned when the vehicle would
need to shift, and shifted preemptively. A computer controlled automatic can
also be aware of when to shift, and shift early, but much more precisely
(since it isn't based on engine noise/judder, it is based on direct electrical
feedback).

CVTs are more efficient yet again because you now have "infinite gears" and
they're computer controlled.

I'd happily drive a CVT until the day I die, and I learned on a manual. The
only thing I wish is that they had better "off the line" response (e.g.
stopped at a light).

~~~
IshKebab
Are manuals not cheaper to manufacture and repair? Definitely in the UK since
90% of cars are still manual.

~~~
mikestew
You know why automatics are sealed these days? They don't expect them to need
service. Here in the U. S., I actually had to call around to find someone that
would do a clutch. When I was a Firestone mechanic lo those twenty some years
ago, we'd drop a tranny and throw clutch plates in all the time (book time
paid more time than it took me to do it). Neither of the local Firestones
would touch it when I called.

Point is, automatics are pretty sturdy these days, and there are fewer shops
in the U. S. that will work on manuals anymore.

~~~
kenhwang
Most modern DCTs are wet clutch which should last more or less forever.
Ford/Volvo's dry clutch DCTs probably still require regular clutch plate
replacements. Torque converters pretty much last forever on infrequent fluid
changes or the whole unit fails.

~~~
opencl
Ford's dry clutch DCT (used only in the Focus and Fiesta, all of the other
Ford/Volvo models are wet clutch) is total junk and you're lucky if the clutch
lasts more than 30k miles. They lost a class action lawsuit over it.

------
Fezzik
That bums me out, but I get it. My first non hand-me-down car was a beat-up
Audi A4 (manual) off craigslist that I loved for years and years as a ski bum.
I am definitely one of the many "manual transmissions are more fun" people.
But once I got that office job, even 15 minutes a day in city traffic with a
manual angered me, so I transitioned to an automatic. Now that I am out of the
city I would love a manual again, but when most people live in big cities with
traffic issues, and drive to and from work every day, it makes sense that
manuals are not that popular in the states.

~~~
jedberg
I found that having a stick in traffic was actually easier for me. I could
keep it in one gear which meant not moving my foot from brake to gas (I could
just use engine breaking and use just the gas).

~~~
taeric
This is dangerous, as you aren't signaling people behind you if you are
braking...

Edit: I would likely soften the "dangerous" wording above. I'm not trying to
claim this is guaranteed to get you killed. Just pointing out that bypassing a
well established signaling mechanism of your vehicle should be a deliberate
act. Not one of convenience.

~~~
jedberg
Engine breaking just means slowing down by letting the foot off the gas. You
aren't really slowing down that quickly. Someone has to really not be paying
attention to miss it. It would be the equivalent of someone merging.

~~~
BeetleB
>Engine breaking just means slowing down by letting the foot off the gas.

Given how often I've driven on stretches of road where engine braking is
prohibited, I beg to differ.

Engine braking is usually braking by shifting to a lower gear.

~~~
vageli
In my experience, places where engine braking is prohibited tend to be with
the intent to reduce engine braking by tractor trailers or other large
apparatuses, which can be very loud. In much of the U.S, posted signage
prohibits "Jake braking" which specifically targets tractor trailers and other
large trucks. [0]

[0]: [https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/96447/why-
prohibi...](https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/96447/why-prohibit-
engine-braking)

------
AWildC182
I like manuals because they feel better to me. This is totally anecdotal but
to me it seems like the stick keeps me more engaged with what's happening with
the car so I find I tend to be less distracted. It also occupies a hand so it
definitely prevents a lot of phone usage. If this could actually be proved I'd
definitely welcome a return to manual transmissions as sometimes I feel like
the only person not on their phone in traffic...

~~~
mulmen
We should just revoke drivers licenses for people who can't operate cars
responsibly. It's way too easy to get a license and keep one in the US today.
We don't even re-test.

~~~
zanny
Easy to say from the position of thinking you can't lose your license or have
the financial means to deal with such a loss.

For a majority of those living in the US the places they live and work have
been so fundamentally designed around cars that no alternative form of transit
is usable. Busses might run once a day, no sidewalks, no bike lanes amidst 5
layer highways. Even getting out of ones housing development via anything but
a car can be challenging if its a fenced in community with winding lane and a
half roads parked full of cars.

I'd naturally much prefer more strict licensing and more frequent license
revocation - if for no other reason than it would demonstrably save many lives
- but only after we solve the car sprawl hellscape that is a majority of
settled US territory.

~~~
dionidium
> _Easy to say from the position of thinking you can 't lose your license or
> have the financial means to deal with such a loss._

There's a villainous cycle at work here. Car supremacy produces cities in
which you need a car, so that attempts to push back on car supremacy can be
credibly opposed on the grounds that they hurt the poor and less advantaged,
when of course the very opposite thing is true.

~~~
setr
the opposite is true _in the long run_. In the finalized scenario, where
public transport is cheap, functional, useful and maintainable, or modern
cities have been totally rewritten to support pedestrian first, it makes more
sense than cars. But between removing cars today, and the day public transport
actually reaches such a state, is long and far, and you fuck the car-less over
for the entire duration.

You can't suddenly make getting a license harder _without also changing a
hundred other things too_ , if you have any intent to preserve any other
lifestyle than one that does not require a car, or is not at risk of losing
their license. Such a claim is indeed a self-centered one, if you aren't
_also_ arguing for the other things as well, _simultaneously_.

To suggest it without the even referring to the rest alongside it is to create
the image of _horror_ , to anyone who isn't already aligned with your premise.
And if you weren't intending that statement for people who didn't already
agree with you, then the most you could have accomplished was virtue
signaling, and I don't know why you would want to do such a horrible thing

~~~
rootusrootus
To be fair, the OP didn't suggest taking away cars from poor people, just from
people who can't be bothered to learn to drive responsibly.

~~~
setr
If you take cars away from every group equally, then the poor are the least
capable of finding an alternative (because they usually cost). In fact, if you
take anything from the entire population in equal measure, its bound to affect
the poor the most (because they’re the least capable of finding alternatives
to the status quo).

So in any such argument, they’d naturally become the front of the topic.

If anyone is going to get fucked by a broad policy, it’s the poor.

~~~
rootusrootus
Then why have any standards at all, if any expectations are discrimination?

~~~
setr
What? Who said anything about discrimination?

You're going to build blanket standards and rules without acknowledging its
effects on the population, and the proportion of the effects on different
groups within that population?

Without accounting for the migration process to the new standard?

Without trying to minimize damage across the groups?

Addendum:

There is a world that exists, and there is an ideal image of the world. We
aren't going to suddenly transfer to the ideal version, _but we 're perfectly
capable of pretending we can in law_. Congress is perfectly capable of
arbitrarily requiring that all cars today meet 50mpg, and declaring it law.
But _we do not want to do that_ , because it would _stupid_ , and shut down
industries and cities across the nation.

Regardless of whether this is what our ideal looks like, it's not a suggestion
that takes us anywhere near it. When someone goes around advocating for it to
people who do not already agree with it, the first question is whats wrong
with it? And the first answer inevitably features the poor, because they're
the most affected. And the next question is, by how much? And again, the best
example is the poor, because they bear the brunt of the negatives.

Everyone else will also eat shit, but they get the most of it, and so they
show it off the most, making for the clearest example of what damages a
blanket policy might incur.

------
crazygringo
Except the article doesn't answer it at all.

Why did America lose its love... when other countries (e.g. rich European
countries) continue to buy majority stick?

All of the reasons given for the US presumably apply to e.g. Germany too, no?
Except no transformation there...

~~~
catdog
In Germany one reason might be that basically everyone learns to drive with
the stick so it's the normal. To get a drivers license it's mandatory to go to
a driving school and drive quite a lot of hours under supervision of an
instructor usually using a car belonging to the school. While it's
theoretically possible to use an automatic car nobody does that because you
then are not allowed to drive a manual one afterwards.

~~~
buckminster
> While it's theoretically possible to use an automatic car nobody does that
> because you then are not allowed to drive a manual one afterwards.

Same in the UK.

~~~
jackvalentine
Same in Aus, but it doesn't stop the majority of new licence holders taking
their test in an automatic. What's the difference between us?

------
taylodl
I've been driving a manual transmission all my life, and I'm not exactly
young. Why do I drive a manual? It makes driving an enjoyable experience
rather than a chore. I've even changed my commute to maximize that experience.
Rather than inch along the freeway mile after mile I take a state route
running alongside a river. Lots of curves and pretty views. Yeah it takes a
few minutes longer but my mental health is far better for it. It makes for a
great transition between home/work and work/home.

------
joeblau
My brother has an R8, Viper, and Vantage (All Manual) and I would rather drive
a Tesla over all 3 of them. Manual is fun and you get the feeling of control
and I love driving them, but in reality, there is a reason they are on their
way out. The main problem is that the replacement, automatic, make driving
feel worse. The computers that manage automatic transmissions are so bad that
they make automatics feel terrible to drive. EV's have their own problems, but
changing gears is not one of them. Right now, my preference is:

    
    
      EV > Manual > Automatic

~~~
FLUX-YOU
Get a sports car, put it in manual mode, and you get the perks of choosing
gears during the drive without stalling your engine.

~~~
slavapestov
After a week of driving manual you will never stall the engine.

~~~
mhh__
When people learn to drive it's usually the panic rather than technique that
makes people stall, anyway

------
ChuckMcM
This is why my car has a 'manual gearbox preservation society'[1] decal on it
:-). It is sort of a self fulfilling prophecy which I pointed out to a Subaru
VP at some length, if you only offer the manual on your 'low trim' cars you
double penalize it, both from the perspective of people who want a bit more
luxury and the things like radio systems or navigation systems that only come
in the 'higher trim' packages.

One of the things he told me was that the cost of getting a car through
California smog certification had to be covered by the sales of the car, and
limited production run cars have higher production costs because the assembly
line has to be re-tooled during the run.

All I know is that it makes me sad, and I'm glad that Mazda, for the moment,
still offers a manual on all their trim packages for many of their cars.

[1]
[https://thecurbshop.com/collections/tmgps](https://thecurbshop.com/collections/tmgps)

------
VBprogrammer
In the UK most cars are still manual. Less so for the more expensive you go
but I'd guess more than 90%.

I have driven automatics a handful of times. The longest I spent was 2 weeks
in a motor home touring the Rockies.

While I can see the appeal for around town driving driving up and down grades
was a bit of a pain. Basically I had to learn the behaviour of the
transmission and use a combination of the exact amount of throttle, hold down
gears and flicking between tow haul and normal to get the gear I wanted. It
was more hassle than having to change gear manually.

~~~
mjklin
You’ve brought up a good reason why Americans should learn manual: in case
they rent cars in other countries. I rented a car in Costa Rica whose clutch
had been destroyed by the previous renter, which fact did not make itself
plain until we were on a mountain road. Wish he had learned stick!

~~~
singingboyo
But... how? When no one owns a manual, you can't learn to drive stick. My dad
had a manual car that he'd kept for 20 years, and I haven't seen one since
that went, about 10 years ago. (I could've learned on that had I gotten things
together, but didn't. Given its condition near the end, that's probably a good
thing.) There's nothing around to learn on.

It's a vicious circle sort of problem at this point. Less manual cars -> can't
learn stick -> can't drive stick -> no one buys manuals -> less manual cars.

In the end, I can learn the concept, but I won't really know how to drive
stick unless I have a manual... and I'll never buy a manual, so the only
possibility is that I'll start off ruining the clutch on some rental. (Or,
more likely, I'll go out of my way to rent automatic... but that may not
always be possible)

~~~
tspike
Even the people who insist on manual reinforce this cycle because the only
cars that have one are older, so they buy used and then the few manufacturers
who offer manuals in new vehicles look at the numbers and say, "hmm, nobody
seems to want a manual."

------
arielweisberg
I learned to drive stick at 34 just for fun. Now own a Mazda 3 and MX-5. Worth
it.

It's not about out performing an automatic transmission it's about engagement.
For some people that's not going to have any value. For others there is no
going back to numb econoboxes with automatic transmissions.

It's a shame more people don't get over the hump and get to see what driving
can be vs. what it is for most.

~~~
ubernostrum
I have completely the opposite view. To me, all the "engagement" type
arguments just feel like someone telling me that they still insist on using
only rotary telephones, because it makes them feel more "engaged" with the
telephone, "closer to the machine", etc.

So I don't find anything magical or special about having to manually manage
the gears when a computer could do it more efficiently and relieve me of the
need to worry about it. When I'm driving I want to be focused on the road and
traffic around me, not micromanaging the way the engine is transmitting power.

Or maybe to go with a car analogy: what if we took away your accelerator pedal
and replaced it with a crank attached to a fuel pump, so you had to constantly
turn the crank to get fuel, and turn it faster or slower to manage the
throttle and the amount of fuel going to the engine? You'd be much more deeply
"connected" to your car that way, but would you rhapsodize about what a
wonderful experience it was? Or would you see it for what it is: a task that
can be done with more efficiency and less distraction by a different approach?

~~~
xkcd-sucks
There's nothing magical about it... With a manual, there are two free
parameters: Engine speed and its coupling to the wheels. With an automatic
transmission, only the engine speed can be controlled by the driver.

Computers have gotten better at managing the coupling sensibly, but they still
are not perfect at predicting drivers' future intentions.

~~~
ubernostrum
_Computers have gotten better at managing the coupling sensibly, but they
still are not perfect at predicting drivers ' future intentions._

This argument basically says that if the computer only does it better in
99.99999999999999999% of cases, the correct solution is to have the computer
handle 0% of cases. Which makes no sense.

(also, almost all "automatics are terrible at anticipating what needs to
happen" arguments are based on decades-old experiences, as if automatic
transmissions are fixed in time and incapable of improving)

------
taurath
Ctrl-F "traffic" shows up nothing in the article - there's not much discussion
of "why" other than the technology is better.

Truth is that when you are stuck in bumper to bumper traffic, stopping and
starting, manuals are tedious and not a good experience.

~~~
pmontra
I'd like an automatic transmission in cities and on highways and a manual one
up and down hills and off-road, when I want to be sure about what the car will
do. So what about a sequential transmission?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequential_manual_transmission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequential_manual_transmission)
It's the one we use in videogames when we select "manual". In real cars they
usually have an automatic mode. Car2Go Smarts used to have that transmission,
activated by a stick.

~~~
singingboyo
Having that mode is pretty common these days, isn't it? I have it in my Rogue,
my dad's Grand Caravan has it, Car2Gos (smart fortwo and the mercedes sedans),
a friend's... something? (some hatchback, idk) had it.

I haven't actually seen a car without a sequential/manual mode for a long
time, come to think of it. Used to drive a 2003 Grand Caravan that didn't have
it, but it had a few different automatic modes that helped fill that void for
hills.

------
drblast
I'll concede all of the other advantages of automatics and add getting the car
moving from a stop on a hill in Seattle, but there seems to be no way to get
rid of the latency when I need to downshift _right now_ , is there?

I hate that about automatics. Floor the gas, count 1,2...ok here we go.

~~~
apple4ever
My biggest complaint about automatics too. I hate the delay.

------
ryandrake
I’ve driven standard transmission for upwards of 15 years and see no need to
change. If I were a conspiracy theorist, I’d be convinced that this trend was
part of a country-wide conspiracy to take all the fun and excitement out of
driving. It seems like every automotive engineering decision since the 80s has
been dominated by occupant safety and comfort, and fuel efficiency, to the
detriment of everything else.

It’s why nearly every new car looks like the same identical boring bar of
soap, and has the same vanilla handling as a Camry. Everything about driving a
modern car is sedate and passive, like you’re just an observer. And there’s so
little variety, the most aggressive option on some models is “18 inch wheels.”
Some manufacturers are even playing fake “vroom vroom” sounds over the speaker
system because their engines are so docile. It’s hard to even find a color
that’s not black, white, gray, beige, or navy blue.

Rant over. As a car enthusiast, modern trends make me sad.

~~~
kirse
_has the same vanilla handling as a Camry_

I hear ya. FWIW, a modern Camry would outpace a Ferrari or Porsche from the
80s, and arguably some of them are starting to give the early 90s (NSX, Supra,
300ZX, RX-7 etc) a run for the performance money. Looks not so much.

The fact that the majority of your vanilla commute-boxes (Camrys, Fusions,
Accords, etc) are now shipping with 220+hp stock / 280+ sport and platforms
that have gone through decades of rigidity research and tire tech, means the
majority of drivers are getting way more performance potential than they can
possibly wring out. A base 2018 Camry SE is now pulling 0.88g on the skidpad.

Heck your average soccer mom is now getting 300+hp in her "well-equipped" SUV
for the red-light commuter drag race thanks to things like the 3.5 Ecoboost.
Since when does a Ford Edge run a low-14 quarter-mile??

The last 10 years of automotive tech have been another golden age similar to
the 60s IMO. Reliability, safety, and performance are all vastly superior.

------
mrbrowning
I’m a committed manual driver, but I fully grant that dual-clutch
transmissions and EV powertrains handily outclass manual transmissions from
the perspective of effectiveness (although my casual understanding is that an
electric motor without a gearbox is still going to be limited in its ability
to provide torque at high rotor speeds). I would consider driving a car
relying on either of those technologies, even though I favor the subjective
experience of a manual transmission, but I still can’t imagine driving any
vehicle with a torque converter or a CVT (CVTs sound great in theory, but as
far as I know they’re still pretty limited in terms of torque tolerance). I’ve
driven some nice autos and still find their response to torque demand from the
pedal to be unacceptably slow, plus I find the way that throttle mapping works
in manual transmission cars to be much more intuitively close to what I would
expect from direct throttle control. Flooring it to induce a downshift feels
like a crude distortion of the input space in a way that inhibits the
development of an intuitive connection with the vehicle’s operation.

Anyway, if you’re a performance vehicle enthusiast on a budget, you’re going
to have trouble finding a suitable car that isn’t equipped with a manual.

~~~
Diederich
> although my casual understanding is that an electric motor without a gearbox
> is still going to be limited in its ability to provide torque at high rotor
> speeds

BTW I find your entire comment pretty interesting.

So the current top speed on Tesla Models S3X is 155MPH. The Roadster 2 is
expected to have a top speed of 250MPH.

Is the 155MPH an example of what you're referencing Re: high rotor speed?
Thanks.

~~~
mrbrowning
Less top speed, which is governed by many factors (consider that maintaining
any constant speed in a vehicle requires some minimum power output to counter
losses to heat/friction throughout the drivetrain and between the vehicle and
oncoming air, not to mention the maximum safe operating speed of the
drivetrain components themselves), but rather the potential for acceleration.
If you look at the torque curve for some power plant, where the independent
variable is oscillation speed and the dependent variable is output torque,
you'll find that (for some fixed gear ratio between the power plant speed and
the wheel speed) the maximum acceleration occurs at the point along that curve
where torque is maximized. Electric motors have a much flatter torque curve
with respect to rotor RPM than do combustion engines with respect to
crankshaft RPM, but they still see a nontrivial drop in torque as rotor speed
approaches its operating maximum. Transmissions exist to maximize the driver's
access to torque: if you're traveling at 60mph on the highway with your engine
spinning at 2K RPM, but your engine makes maximal torque at 4K RPM, you can
shift downward to maintain your same vehicle speed while increasing the speed
at which your engine turns over, thus giving you enhanced ability to bring
your car up to speed before you merge with the lane to the left of you where
everyone is driving much faster. A car that loses available torque at high
power plant speeds and that lacks the ability to use such gearing to take
advantage of optimal power plant torque will be unable to produce as much
acceleration at high speeds as a car that has several gear ratios available.

Caveat: I'm just an automotive hobbyist, so if an automotive engineer rolls in
and calls bullshit on anything I've said above, they're almost certainly
correct.

~~~
Diederich
Cool, thanks!

> Caveat: I'm just an automotive hobbyist

Yeah, I'm not even a hobbyist really. (: Just interested in electric vehicles.

------
dgzl
I've been driving stick shift since I first learned to drive (10 years), and I
absolutely love it. Yes, driving in traffic can be painful, but the overall
benefits outweigh this problem.

I try to describe the situation like this: imagine you have two axis of
control with an automatic, the accelerator and the brake. You can use these
two independently of each other, and your car's actions will respond to them.

Now with a standard transmission, you're adding a clutch, adding a third
dimension, which can also be used independently of the two. The ability and
actions your car can take essentially take on a new dimension.

In the case of an automatic, this third dimension is executed by the system,
releasing the user from control. However as great autopilot is yet a reality,
the world presents more driving obstacles than what a standard automatic
vehicle can perfectly account for. Thus giving a "not perfect but good enough"
result.

CVTs work too I guess, but I'm also trying to have fun here.

In my personal experience, driving stick makes me more engaged with driving,
and therefore more concentrated on driving, while automatics make me feel like
everything is easy and I can pay less attention.

I think self/assisted driving would be the key feature to get me off the
stick.

------
jamesfmilne
You’ll pry my manual transmission from my cold, dead hands. Hopefully not
because you’re a paramedic and I’m wrapped round a tree...

Joking apart, I’d swap my manual for an ‘automatic’ with paddle-shift manual
controls.

If I was commuting in a city I’d definitely want an automatic though.

~~~
Thlom
Doesn’t most automatic transmissions have that? My old VW Touran have paddles
on the wheel for changing gears. I only use it when driving down steep hills
though.

~~~
NikolaNovak
Yes, but automatics with "paddle shifts" have very soft transition and very
soft/delayed gas pedal reaction; whereas dual-clutch/sequential with "paddle
shifts" have very fast transition and very straight gas pedal reaction.

The true automatics, or CVT, there's limited need (or fun:) in paddle shifts
outside of hills, poor traction, etc.

For sequential/dual-clutch, paddle shift operation is direct... and fun :)

~~~
rootusrootus
The only thing going away faster than the manual at this point are dual clutch
transmissions. Never really perfected in most instances, and the latest
slushboxes actually outperform them. Faster shifts, more reliable, cheaper. I
prefer my manual very much, but I have to hand it to the engineers, they've
turned what used to be a performance-killing design into the best you can buy.

~~~
NikolaNovak
Hmm Is there a car in price range of golf gti that has that level of gas pedal
responsiveness? I would love to take it for a test drive and see if my
skepticism is warranted :)

~~~
rootusrootus
Well, unless you're looking to actually buy, who says it has to be in the
right price range? ;-)

~~~
NikolaNovak
I am though- need to replace my manual wrx with something fun that my wife can
drive :)

~~~
rootusrootus
I can't really help, then, I'm not really familiar with what the state of the
art in four-cylinder hot hatches are at this point (and in any case, Subaru
will not be leading edge in that regard; I have loved all my Subarus,
especially my two STIs, but automatics are definitely not something Subaru is
any good at). The newer A8 and A10s that GM uses in their performance cars
(and Ford in some cases), as well as the latest stuff from MB, are fantastic
automatics. Until this latest generation came along, I assumed DCT was the
future. Now I'd be surprised to see it hang on much more than a few more years
before being phased out.

------
d1zzy
Heh I just bought a new car in the US and it's a manual (and it's not even a
sports car). Why? Because I don't care as much about adaptive cruise control
(I bike to work so the car is mostly for long drives) and it was $1200 cheaper
(of course that's also going to matter when selling the car but if I tend to
drive cars into the ground, 20+ years of use or more so that's not an issue).
I don't feel strongly about either automatic or manual, both have their pros
and cons, but if there's a significant price difference I'll go for the
cheaper option.

------
RaceWon
I raced cars with non-synchronized transmissions for some years, which means
you have to heel and toe (and blip the throttle) to engage a lower gear, and I
always drove my MT street cars the same way. About 8 years ago though I
switched to automatic with a VW GTI.

There truly is no comparison, dual clutches and in sport mode the car executes
a throttle blip on down shifts so I can left foot brake all the time and
always have both hands on the wheel. I only care about being precise (and
quick when needed) so no, I don't miss manual at all.

~~~
H1Supreme
What about down shifting into first gear when coming to a stop? Is it jarring
with a dual clutch? On my motorcycle I almost never shift into 1st before
stopping because of the engine braking (even with a throttle blip). I just
grab the clutch and coast until I stop.

~~~
RaceWon
So if we're on the same page driving a MT: the reason we're blipping the
throttle is so that we don't upset the balance (front to rear) of the vehicle,
and we do our blip just before shifting to 1st from 2nd and ideally we've
judged it correctly so there is no change of pitch from engine braking.

So with a dual clutch AT vehicle, under savagely hard threshold braking there
is no gear related pitch change. And under normal driving there is none
either. To be clear though I only tested the GTI at a small "pitch and catch"
autocross style track once, but I did drive all of VW's vehicles that day, it
was a manufacturers test day.

Here's a Wikipedia explanation

"[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-
clutch_transmission](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_transmission)
"

Bikes and cars have significantly different engine power characteristics. I'm
guessing you ride a sport bike?

------
ken
Despite the title, it never explores why this phenomenon is specific to
America, except to note that "the 5-speed manual is [still] the most popular
transmission in the world".

~~~
twblalock
It's also pretty difficult to find a manual transmission car in Japan and
other wealthy Asian countries like South Korea. And in Europe automatic
transmissions are increasing in popularity, as are SUVs and crossovers.
America just started transitioning to automatics a lot earlier.

------
jac_no_k
I've gotten a Nissan Leaf v.2 which comes with e-pedal. Essentially single
pedal driving. Best described as someone who drove stick shift as staying in
second gear but without none of the noise. Push the pedal down and it
accelerates normally, but start lifting off and it goes from "neutral" to
"engine braking" (regenerative) all the way to a complete stop.
[https://www.nissan-
global.com/EN/TECHNOLOGY/OVERVIEW/e_Pedal...](https://www.nissan-
global.com/EN/TECHNOLOGY/OVERVIEW/e_Pedal.html)

While I do miss doing 3 -> 2 heel toe downshift for corners, trying to figure
out when to lift off to scrub enough speed without touching the brakes for a
corner is just as entertaining.

I think shifting gears in general, whether automatics or manual, will fade out
as electric drive-trains take over.

------
deckarep
Sitting in stop and go traffic in Southern California freeways every day of
the week did it for me...

------
timewarrior
I grew up in India and loved driving stick shift. Once I moved to US, I
transitioned to Automatic.

Biggest reason I miss Stick shift is that, it just felt that I had a stronger
connection with the car and the acceleration was more predictable. With
automatic you might not be in the right gear and the car might upshift too
soon or too late.

A potential side effect of the stronger connection is that more involvement
leads to more spirited driving and potentially traffic tickets.

Then I got a Tesla. Beauty of Tesla is that it has just has one gear, so you
are always in the right gear. So this avoids the biggest issue with Automatic.
OTOH, because I am not manually changing gear, this avoids the spirited
driving issue. It is now an appliance and just works.

------
traviswingo
America lost its love of more than just the stick shift. I regularly find
myself around people who just simply can’t drive safely. They don’t use their
mirrors, they don’t know how to stop rapidly in emergency situations; I’m not
surprised no one drives a manual anymore.

On top of this, we pretty much hand out drivers licenses like fucking flyers
in this country. Just stand in line and earn yours.

If you’ve ever been on a road in Europe you’ll see a dramatically different
scenario. Free flowing traffic, everyone seems to see everyone else around
them; people are paying attention and know their cars.

The market for automated vehicles is ripe because we’re fucking morons behind
the wheel, and somehow we’re ok with that.

~~~
Zarath
Driving in the US is infuriating. Nobody is paying attention and nobody seems
to understand basic rules like faster traffic keep left.

------
beamatronic
Sitting in traffic did it for me.

~~~
tyingq
4 way stop at the top of an icy hill for me.

Interesting they chose a picture of a floor shift automatic for the article.

~~~
tough_cookies
I always had an easier time getting up snowy/ice hills (in Boston) than my
friends did in their autos. I remember once driving up a hill in front of a
friend so he could use my tire indentations to get up behind me.

~~~
tyingq
Getting up was fine. Stopping at the precipice at a 4 way stop, then trying to
start again was the tricky bit. With an auto you can hold the brake while you
slowly press the accelerator, then release the brakes.

Need a third foot to do that (or a hand brake) with a manual.

Edit: Hill lock definitely sounds nice. Didn't exist when I was young, poor,
and had crappy old American made manual shift cars...

~~~
esaym
Not sure how old you are, but on my grandpa's 1950 Ford there was a hand
operated parking brake (under the dash). I had to use it once after stopping
to get gas and the driveway to get back onto the main road went down into a
steep ditch and then out onto the road.

Of course some nitwit pulled up right behind me as I was trying to pull out
into the road. I tried easing up on the foot brake and allowing the clutch to
grab some as a quick test but the car still started to creep back. I said
screwed it and yanked the parking brake as hard as I could while getting off
the foot brake and meshing the gas while at the same time letting up on the
clutch and undoing the parking brake. Not the hardest thing, but mainly made
an issue by modern drivers getting right on your bumper...

~~~
tyingq
It was cars with a foot operated emergency brake that locked into place with a
separate lever to release it. Not useful in these situations. Even on cars
with a hand brake, it was still a bit dicey, because they only operated the
rear brakes, and could be mis-adjusted/weak/etc.

Pretty common on late 60's, 70's, and some 80's cars.

~~~
esaym
Whether foot operated or hand pulled, you will have to use your hand to
disengage it so not seeing the difference.

~~~
tyingq
You had to reach down pretty far, and look down to find the release. A
handbrake is a one handed operation you don't have to look at.

~~~
esaym
I agree is sucks. But the option is there.

------
nzp
OK, European here, maybe it's just the title wording, but the article left me
somewhat confused. For as long as I can remember ('80s child) I was convinced
that the US car market (and consumer preferences) were almost exclusively
automatic. Even popular culture reinforced this (I don't remember ever seeing
a manual transmission car in American movies and TV shows). Now this article
suggests that even recently there was an actual competition between the two,
that America even had love, no less, for stick shift. I don't know what to
believe anymore, is there a reality even...

~~~
luminiferous
The American car market as a whole are almost entirely automatic due to
overall consumer preferences. However, there is also a minority of enthusiast
drivers who greatly prefer manuals and are very vocal as such. Cars that are
marketed more towards the enthusiast end of the market are those that you'll
find stick shifts in more often, e.g. Miatas, Porsches, Corvettes, etc. These
days though, even the enthusiast cars are selling many more automatics than
manuals.

------
pmiller2
Manual transmissions are great anti-theft devices, though! ;)

~~~
sebazzz
In your country maybe. It is very much a cultural thing. In the Netherlands to
get your driving license, you learn to stick shift by default. If you don't
want or cannot learn to stick shift, you can get your license but you get a
notice in your driving license that you are only allowed to drive automatic
transmission. Learning to drive automatic is still very much an exception
here.

Most consumer cars in the Netherlands are still sold as manual transmission,
probably because the price was usually lower compared to automatic
transmission. But we won't have a choice forever, since we are heading to an
hybrid/full-electric future and almost all electric cars have a CVT anyway.

~~~
RyJones
I've tried three times to rent a manual car at Schiphol, and ended up with an
automatic each time. I also noticed that my Uber drivers almost always drive
automatics in Amsterdam.

I know, plural of anecdote is not data.

Oh well. My 1998 Tacoma with a five speed will die soon enough, and I'll end
up buying an automatic, probably.

I will have :wq! on my headstone, though.

~~~
DonHopkins
As an Emacs user, that's the only VI command I know!

------
tempestn
One thing I'd love to see in modern manual transmission sports cars is a
lockout to prevent mechanical over-revs. It would be extremely cheap and
simple to engineer—knowing the current RPM and gear ratios, it would just be a
matter of a servo motor actuating a bar, physically blocking the shifter from
engaging gears that would cause a mechanical overrev. If done right, the
driver wouldn't even notice it was there, until they were going around a
sweeping right-hander on the track, up-shifting from third to fourth, and find
the car prevents them from accidentally pulling it into second instead...

Of course, most drivers don't track their cars, and it's pretty hard to mis-
shift when you're not on the track if you know what you're doing. (Or even on
the track, if you're careful.) But sometimes it only takes one, and given how
simple it would be to implement something like this, it seems like a no-
brainer for companies like Porsche, especially given we're already seeing
things like auto-blip for manuals (which I'm far less keen on, fwiw, but fine
with as long as it can be turned off!)

~~~
manfredo
If that servo fails to unlock, though, now you can't shift into certain gears.
I thought that a centrifugal clutch disengage mechanism would solve this.
Centrifugal clutches are already common in scooters - the clutch engages
gradually as you rev above idle rpms. My theoretical feature is basically the
opposite: a centrifuge that disengages at a given RPM. You _can_ shift into
1st at 100mph but your clutch will quickly disengage as your revs approach
redline. You may burn out your clutch but those are cheaper to replace than
engines.

Of course I have zero mechanical engineering background so who knows the
feasibility of this approach.

~~~
tempestn
Re-engineering the clutch sounds like a lot more work than adding a little
servo. (Or two: one for 1/3/5 and one for 2/4.) And yeah, like anything in the
car I guess it could fail, but something so simple could be made very
robust—and if it did fail, it wouldn't be catastrophic. Would also be simple
enough to add a mechanical override screw accessible under the shifter boot or
something like that.

------
nkantar
> Take the Subaru BRZ. The popular sports car was once sold only with a manual
> transmission, but sales are now 90 percent automatic, Fiske estimated.

I find this a bit difficult to believe.

The automatic option has a reputation for being pretty good, but the manual is
excellent. It was certainly never even a matter of choice for me, and for the
growing number of (BRZ/(GT)86/FR-S) enthusiasts I know.

Yes, I'm in a niche, but so is the car.

~~~
themark
Surprised me too!

Only reason I can think of is that the real enthusiasts bought them early on.
Now, most people buy them because they want a 'sports car'; only 10% are
actual enthusiasts.

~~~
nkantar
I can see that, but I choose to remain unrealistically optimistic in the face
of reality anyway. :D

------
ErnestedCode
I'm American and I learned to drive in a stick shift. My first 13 years of
driving was with a stick. But it got to a point where it was just too
difficult to find a stick version of the cars I wanted to get, so now I drive
automatics.

I get the reason why some people insist driving sticks. You feel more "in
tune" and "in control" with your car. But for the vast majority, this is
completely unnecessary. Most people just want to get from point A to point B
in one piece. For these people, feeling more in control of your car is as
unnecessary as feeling more in control of a hand-cranked window over a power
window.

Eventually we'll all be in self-driving cars and this whole debate will seem
silly and trivial. "Automatics" will eventually include automatic turning and
automatic braking and all things automatic.

~~~
munchbunny
I would love to drive a manual, but I think automatics are just better "UX"
for city commuting, especially if you often need to inch forward.

------
headcanon
My father bought me my first car, under the conditions that it had to be a
stick, since he wanted me to learn in general, and since you have to pay
attention more to the road, your likelihood of getting into an accident
decreases significantly.

Now I drive a manual Golf GTI and I'm firmly of the "cold dead hands" camp
with having it. I always wonder why other people don't like driving, and then
I drive their cars. Having the stick turns my 45-minute commute from a chore
to something I legitimately somewhat look forward to. My lease runs out next
year and it seems like 2018 is the last year for many stick-shift models.

Definitely going to miss it when we all go full electric. Even then I hope to
have a "fun" car to drive around.

~~~
imglorp
> since you have to pay attention more to the road

I'm teaching an attention-impaired teenager to drive, and we're doing stick
for exactly this reason: extra cog load reduces daydreaming? Perhaps that's a
controversial idea. But for him, so far so good.

~~~
linuxftw
Super hard to talk/text and drive when you have to shift as well.

------
hawktheslayer
I made the switch to automatic a year ago, mainly so my wife could use my car
--and I still suffer from Phantom Clutch Syndrome. I am tempted to switch back
by the time my kids are old enough to drive so I can teach them, that is if
humans are still driving cars then.

~~~
sevensor
> I still suffer from Phantom Clutch Syndrome

Based on personal experience, it takes about three years to get over that.
YMMV.

------
sologoub
I have a feeling that driving a manual will eventually be akin to learning to
ride a horse - people who love the sport will still do it and pay for it, but
the general public will regard it as something far from their lives, whereas
it once was a common skill.

Driving a manual, especially on a track teaches you a lot about the physics
behind the machine you are operating. For example, few people consider how
weight transfer when cornering can either help you or send you into a spin -
electronics handle most of this for you and when decelerating, computers won’t
let you shift.

I do have to wonder if texting and driving would be a lesser concern if both
hands were occupied... Probably not, but one can dream!

------
mmmBacon
I bought my first automatic in 2011. Prior to that I drove all manual
transmission cars from before I was able to legally drive in 1986 until 2011.
In 2011, my truck configuration was only offered with automatic transmission.
I really hate how automatic transmissions shift, usually not where I want them
to and sometimes inexplicably (possibly for emissions reasons) when you are
not in the power. While 6 speed automatics are better I still find the gear
spacings and shift points to be really irritating (even on luxury cars).

Also, I vastly prefer the control a manual gives you in low traction
situations over automatic transmissions with electronic traction control.

------
esaym
Not sure what "audi" (a German company) has to do with America but what ever.

For my own tastes, once my 2000 Ford mustang's automatic tranny started acting
funny sometimes (after 15 years and 200k miles), I bought a used manual
tranny, flywheel, and clutch pedal set from a wrecked mustang of the same year
and did a swap. Much happier now. I also feel more "invincible". If my starter
goes out, I won't be stranded, I can just do a push start! Heck even if your
battery is dead you can normally still push start. Nothing can stop me! Heck
it even has a spare tire unlike all these "modern" cars. Truly nothing can
stop me!

~~~
kenhwang
Supposedly, it's newsworthy because Audi was going to discontinue manuals much
sooner, but one of their execs pushed for continued offering because of
"demand in the US".

Porsche got a lot of backlash in the US when they discontinued manuals, to the
point where they engineered a brand new manual gearbox with parts sharing with
their PDK just because of US demand for the latest generation.

Audi thought there was also demand for Audis with manuals, apparently there
wasn't.

~~~
CamperBob2
Audi may have been confronted with the lesson that BMW already learned to its
chagrin: there's no demand for _crappy_ manuals in the US.

That said, the only reason cars have a transmission at all is because of a
serious flaw in the way internal combustion engines work. That means that the
best transmission would be no transmission at all... and the transmission that
best approximates _that_ state of affairs is, more or less inarguably, PDK.

------
peeters
I love my stick shift, and echo others that it increases my engagement level,
but I'm at the point of buying my next car and I know it'll be automatic.

Too many companies don't try to push any advanced technology into their
manuals; if you want any kind of active safety features you need to go
automatic. Honda was probably the outlier; I test drove the Civic Hatch and it
had everything except for low-speed follow available in manual. But others
like Subaru, Mazda, etc won't put any of those features (adaptive cruise, etc)
in manual packages, at least in the Canadian market.

~~~
arielweisberg
Ouch... I ended up with Mazda for one of my cars because in the US market it
had the full range of safety features, and was available with manual
transmission. Automatic braking and collision detection at low and high
speeds, pedestrian collision detection, rear cross traffic alerts, radar
cruise control

I did notice that trend which is unfortunate. The tendency for sporty cars to
forgo safety equipment. I hate it.

It looks like the Mazda 3 sedan is now available in CA with the same
equipment.

------
lern_too_spel
If you've had the misfortune of walking or biking on American roads recently,
another reason becomes obvious. Drivers don't have a hand for a stick when one
hand is on the wheel and another is texting.

------
DrGrX
Drove nothing but manuals for the past 16 years. Got my first car with a dual-
clutch automatic this year. It's faster to shift, easier to drive, has a crazy
number of ratios, and still manually controllable. That said, if they still
exist, I will go back to a manual for my next car. I think there is a level of
engagement lost even with something controllable like a dual-clutch. I can see
the appeal of a dual-clutch or even the newer torque converters and I can't
fault people for choosing it over a manual, but for me it's not the right fit.

------
whalesalad
My biggest gripe with most automatic transmissions is a feature commonly
referred to as creep. Let off the brake pedal and the car moves forward.
Depending on the car it’s more pronounced. Rarely do you have an automatic
that will actually remain at a constant speed or slightly slow down when you
lift off the gas.

This is a huge issue and I’ll contend it’s a major contributor to traffic in
urban environments. In a manual vehicle or a DSG/DCT vehicle (read: something
that has a clutch or clutches and avoids a torque converter like common
automatics) you can let off the gas pedal and your vehicle isn’t going to
continue to accelerate. Combine that with the ability and knowledge that
downshifting is going to force the engine to behave like a brake and you have
much more precise control over your speed.

I rarely use my brakes. I own a 6-speed Mustang and my wife has a 6-speed STI.
I drive very fluid, estimating (or doing my best to) the perfect avg speed
during traffic so I can roll along and smooth out disruptions in my lane.
Meanwhile the vast majority of other drivers are constantly battling their
vehicles natural tendency to move by tapping on the brake pedal like a moth
banging on an outdoor light.

Brake lights cause other people to brake. Even if there is no logical reason
to do so, people will respond and then a chain reaction of unnecessary braking
is happening all the way down the highway. It’s not the only cause of traffic
but it’s a significant variable in an algebraic shitstorm of other issues.

I’m also pretty convinced that having extensive experience with a manual
vehicle makes you a better driver. For instance a lot of folks have no clue
what the 1/2/3 or +/\- buttons do on their auto transmissions. They aren’t
aware of engine braking down a steep grade. They’re able to cruise along
(thanks to creep) in traffic with their foot never coming off the brake pedal
and their attention primarily on a phone. It kills me to see this.

Anecdotally the best drivers I know drive or have driven manual cars. The
worst drivers I know don’t share this experience.

It’s tragic they are going away. The irony here is that worldwide America is
one of the few places where it’s still appreciated. A lot of high end European
auto makers have ditched manual entirely abroad yet still offer it as an
option here (on certain models).

I realize automatics are becoming more efficient and have definitely surpassed
manuals as far as shifting speed but I still love my stick shift. I wish more
people could appreciate it. Unfortunately they’re so rare now and carry such
an elitist stigma that a lot of people will never even have the opportunity to
row the gears and truly _drive_ a fun car.

~~~
sgustard
I used to love my stick shift, now I love my electric car. It has the same
lack of creep and built-in engine braking.

~~~
whalesalad
What kind of vehicle is it, specifically?

------
ProfessorLayton
As mentioned at the end of the article, I hope all complicated car
transmissions go away, and are replaced with dead simple reduction gears in
electric cars. Transmissions are expensive to repair and replace, and are
often the part that junks an otherwise servicable car when things go awry.

While I empathize with car enthusiasts' loss of manual control, as a used car
buyer, and person who enjoys cleaner air, I'm ok with moving past manual (and
even automatic) transmissions.

~~~
sundvor
I was chanting "electric cars", "electric cars" in my head the whole article
and found the end of it very rewarding. :-)

Had a Mazda 3 Astina manual before, lovely car. I'd love a Civic Type R manual
but most realistically my next car will be an electric one. Not in the market
for one now, cars make you fat compared to other modes of transport, and
currently using other modes is viable for me so sticking (sorry!) to that for
now.

------
dragosmocrii
This is kinda sad, and hope it doesn't happen in Canada. I understand that
some people prefer automatics because they are easier to drive, but I
personally find manuals more fun. I also feel in more control, especially in
winter weather. Being able to use the engine to slow down (downshifting) is
very useful in icy conditions, when ABS gets retarded. Also my personal
opinion, but being able to drive a manual feels more manly ))

------
sakopov
I recently made the mistake of buying a CVT WRX because of traffic and yada
yada. Very fun car but the CVT just kills it. I wind up driving the thing with
paddle shifters most of the time. And I've almost convinced myself to trade it
up for a manual STI in near future. This whole experience makes me sad
sometimes because I know that most fun cars these days only come with paddle
shifters these days. This is such a joy kill.

------
fipple
There’s no point for stick shift other than entertainment these days. When
computers can synthesize porn they can definitely shift gears better than a
human.

------
tyingq
I had no idea it had skewed this much. Even Corvette buyers overwhelmingly buy
automatic now.

From [http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2017/06/09/production-
statist...](http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2017/06/09/production-statistics-
for-the-2017-corvette-model-year/)

For 2017, a total of 25556 paddle shift automatics, and a total of 7226 manual
shift.

~~~
dreamcompiler
I was looking around the lot at my local Porsche dealer 2 years ago. Tons of
911s. Number with manual xmission: 0. That is a crime against humanity.

------
nimbius
I've been an engine mechanic for 12 years now and the automatic transmission
is a mainstay. Most parents and commuter drivers aren't exactly feathering the
clutch like Rossi on the way to band practice in their Hyundai. They just want
a cheap easy car that works without a lot of expense, and the automatic
transmission takes less maintenance over the life of the vehicle than a
manual.

~~~
dan_quixote
I find the last statement surprising. Yes, manual transmissions do require the
occasional clutch replacement but also have less moving parts. So I would have
assumed less maintenance.

~~~
nimbius
Ah, but you're forgetting clutch plates, rollback arrestors, springs, and
seals. The longevity is as expected dependent on driver and style as well

Labor has overtaken parts in terms of expense for service like this as well. I
can easily bill the cost of a compact car for work done on a high end manual
car (Porsche and high end mustangs for example)

------
jedberg
When I learned to drive (early 90s) there was already really no need to learn
to drive a stick. None the less, my dad insisted that I learn to drive stick.
I liked it so much I bought one a few years later.

I'm also really glad he made me learn, because 15 years later I finally got to
Europe and had to rent a car there. It was impossible to find an automatic,
but luckily I knew how to drive manual.

------
dwighttk
I like a stick shift, but I'm most likely never going to buy a new car, so I'm
at the mercy of its popularity amongst new-car buyers.

------
olivermarks
I think the average non car enthusiast driver would rather drive something as
easy to operate as possible. The market for performance 6 speeds has never
been better though, Richmond, Tremec and Getrag make superb gearboxes that
really liven up the engine that is driving them, increasing performance and
driving pleasure for people who are interested in that sort of thing.

------
ams6110
I still have a manual transmission car, and am in the process of teaching my
sons how to drive it.

Granted they are not popular, but I prefer them. Sadly the market does not.
And electric cars, which seem to be the next iteration of the automobile,
don't have transmissions at all, so the ability to drive a manual is really
looking like it will soon be a fairly useless skill.

------
rmason
I love driving a stick shift. I also love Morse code. They're both probably
anachronisms but I don't care.

My 19 year old niece bought an old F-350 and taught herself to drive a shift.
She told me that it was retro cool because so few in her generation know how
to drive one. I may have to teach her Morse code ;<).

------
ddingus
For me, it is commuter traffic and the powertrains getting much better.

Recently, I drove a little Hyundai round trip between Portland and Seattle.
MPG for the trip was 54mpg! I drove upper middle of the pack, in terms of
speed. Not poking around.

The decisions it made were insane good. I will sometimes data log my cars and
try for peak fuel efficiency. So, I am really good at squeezing mpg out of a
car. I get my communte optimized each time I use a new car. Been doing that
for years. It is just a bit of fun.

That car nailed the usual oppirtunities for gains. Well done.

Honestly, I am not sure I could beat that car in a manual transmission
version. At the least, doing so would require way more attention than I am
willing to give.

Given the compute and greater efficiencies possible today, manual for fuel
economy makes less and less sense. Electrics are coming too.

I love manual cars, but do not love them as daily drivers anymore.

Did not think it would happen. It has.

------
Angostura
One thing I’ve noticed over the last 10 years is how action films with car
chases in have started cutting to shots of the driver shifting gears. It’s as
if the manual gear change is becoming an exotic thing, used only by getaway
drivers.

As someone who lives in a country where automatics are still in the minority,
it’s very odd.

~~~
blattimwind
It always rubs me the wrong way when in a movie there is a dialogue scene in a
car going at a steady pace, and yet in the background you get a recording of a
motor revving up and shifting back down in a loop. Like a Shepard tone, but
with a car.

------
S_A_P
Manuals have been selected out of the marketplace by dealer sales managers. I
would love to own at least one manual transmission vehicle. Most that Ive
considered in recent history were available with a manual, and the ones that
are available as a manual are impossible to find or special order only.

~~~
nkantar
There was a story somewhere (I can't find it now) about how a big part of the
lack of car color options in the US is that consumers are used to buying cars
directly off dealer lots.

According to the article, this makes the consumer into the customer of the
dealer, and not the manufacturer. As such, the dealer is the manufacturer's
true customer, and their demand is what drives production and availability.

The dealer, naturally, optimizes their inventory for the best sellers, which
are generally grayscale colors, so that's what they order from the
manufacturer. When the customer shows up, the limited choices often force
compromises, which turn into statistics used to further optimize inventory.

The way out of this loop is for the customer to insist on the exact desired
configuration.

The problem is that many (most?) people don't care enough to wait for three
months instead of driving home in their new car the same day. This is further
exacerbated by the dealer's willingness to offer a better deal on a car that's
on the lot than one that has to be ordered.

I wouldn't be surprised if transmission availability plays into this to some
extent, though probably not quite as much. After all, manuals are still
generally cheaper in terms of MSRP, but dealer pricing may negate and even
reverse that advantage.

~~~
ghaff
Wait three months and pay list price in all probability if you order custom
rather than take a car on the lot. Not always with high demand vehicles but
I’ve always bought a car off the lot st a discount.

------
mr_tristan
Related news: Americans spend considerably more time in traffic as well.
(Here's a comparsion from 82 - 92 - 02:
[https://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/congestion_report/executive_summary...](https://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/congestion_report/executive_summary.htm))

I'm not sure there's a significant market for cars in the US where traffic
isn't a factor or hasn't grown significantly in the last generation.

Given that automatics are much nicer to drive in traffic, I sense that is a
huge reason why there's just not much of a market for manuals. Unless the
manual was going to be massively cheaper (and it's not), I can't think of a
large group of people who would desire manual transmissions.

------
jarjoura
I preferred stick because it allowed me to accelerate faster and better
control my driving. Now that most cars offer some sort of turbo and manual-
like like transmission option, I much prefer our new future of automatic.

------
analog31
I used to prefer manual. It was interesting and gave a feeling of skill. But
the thrill is gone because the thrill of driving is gone, thanks to
congestion.

Economy seems to be a wash. And quite frankly, I've observed that stick shift
cars tend to be driven in "fun" mode, which is probably less economical.

I like... automation. I'm waiting eagerly for a self driving car. Meanwhile,
my next car will probably be electric.

While my family still has one stick-shift car, my kids will learn to drive it.
My daughter already has, and my son will, after he figures out how to drive
the automatic car safely.

------
nradov
This article missed the franchise dealer economic factors. Due to the
floorplan financing system, US dealers for volume brands don't want to take
custom orders anymore. They live or die by inventory turnover rate and so they
want to sell you a car that's on the lot _today_. Thus they mostly stock only
the most popular combinations of options. Most buyers who would prefer a
manual are also willing to buy an automatic, but buyers who want an automatic
won't buy a manual. So the dealers don't stock manuals.

------
Chazprime
So sad to see this.

I just bought an A4 with the manual transmission and it was tough to even
locate one...most Audi dealerships get only a few each year.

Oddly, the dealer said Audi was ramping up its manual offerings next year.

------
kevincennis
I have a little 6-speed BMW right now that’s _so_ fun to drive around, but I
think my next car will probably be a Model 3.

Shifting is fun when the roads aren’t a disaster, but between traffic and the
fact that ICEs are pretty much untenable in the long-term, it’s hard to
justify buying another manual. Plus, the options for new stick shift cars seem
to be dwindling every year anyway.

I’d like to be able to continue driving a standard, but it just makes less and
less sense (for me, at least).

------
Annatar
If you look at all the modern muscle cars (or in the case of the Corvette and
Camaro ZL1) hypercars and supercars camouflagef as muscle cars, they all come
with the manual transmission as the standard option, and most of the
enthusiasts choose that. I watch Youtube car videos constantly and have seen a
very encouraging uptake of manual transmission cars in America by generation
Y. It's like a new era is dawning. Very encouraging.

------
chrxr
The major downside, I think, of the US totally abandoning the stick shift is
that in my experience the majority of rentals outside of the US are stick. I'm
very aware of this in Europe, and I guess it would also be true in even less
developed countries. I recognize that this is a somewhat niche problem but
when the time comes and you can't drive any of the rentals on the lot, that's
going to be a real pain!

------
sandGorgon
It is crazy that 95% of all cars sold in India (one of the largest in the
world) are stick shift with very less growth in automatic vehicles.

One is the perception that automatic vehicles have significantly worse fuel
efficiency than stick shift. And the second is that the newer CVT based
automatic vehicles have not been introduced in India.. and the older AMT
automatic vehicles is what have been half-heartedly used by manufacturers.

~~~
sanmon3186
I believe extra cost plays a big role.

------
linuxftw
For me, I prefer manual over automatic based solely on price. I also
appreciate that manuals are less complex and more easily serviced. I think
disposable automobiles is an affront to decency and I despise obsolescence of
perfectly fine autos.

I'm eagerly awaiting the first 'open design' auto that uses easily acquired
and interchangeable parts. I would also like to see the same in lawn mowers.

------
unchocked
... and the article features a stock photo of someone grasping an automatic
transmission shifter that vaguely looks like a stick. The end is nigh

------
obombration
I loved my manual transmission cars, and wasn't even that bothered by the
"1st-2nd-1st-2nd..." highway congestion that I'd encounter every now and then.
But when my driving got to be a little more adventurous (lane and a half wide
gravel forest service roads on steep hills) I reluctantly gave in and got an
auto. Some day I hope to own another fun manual car...

------
mannykannot
This is somewhat tangential, but I think there may have been an increase in
the two-footed driving of automatics. On a highway with smoothly-flowing
traffic, there is rarely any need to touch the brakes, yet I see a constant
flickering of red in front of me, together with the occasional car that has
its brake lights lit most of the time.

------
m3kw9
It used to be a form of saving money and better control of your car, but now
is more of an acquired taste to want to use manual shift. For me, the fun is
in doing perfect rev match down shifts or doing a goo toe-heel move before a
tight turn. Otherwise comparing to all the AI and radars, there isn’t much
practical use anymore.

------
billpg
My advice to British learner drivers - just take the test in an automatic car.
Yes you won't be able to drive manual cars but who cares about that?

It's 2018 people! Leave obsolete technology behind. You want to learn how to
drive a horse drawn cart too?

EDIT - This was meant as a reply to a related comment. Oops.

~~~
QasimK
My advice to British learner drivers - take the test in a manual car and do
your utmost to get an automatic car. Especially so if existing family cars are
manual.

The vast majority of cars around are manual, unfortunately. This means that
you won’t be able to drive most cars around. In the case of one person I know,
they had to retake their driving test a couple of years later because they
were forced to drive a manual car. In addition, if you are buying a car as a
young adult, it is likely that price matters, and the number of cheaper, used
manual cars vastly outnumbers cheaper, used automatics.

It isn’t much extra effort to learn manual, and you can let the skill atrophy
afterwards.

------
scrumper
Cities and freeways are one thing, but I think it's more about suburbia. Stop
signs over yields by default, four way stop signs, and roundabouts (circles)
being a completely alien concept. These things are kinda fine in an automatic
but vastly less comfortable in a manual.

------
nanna
Please may the day come soon when we can say that America lost its love for
the automobile in general.

------
cafard
My wife and I would prefer a manual transmission. However, we want to have a
station wagon, and when we last went shopping for a car, the only station
wagons with a manual transmission were Audi and VW. So we have an Accord
(rebadged Honda) with an automatic transmission.

------
sm2
The photo in the article is not of a stick shifter. That's an automatic
transition gear changer.

------
dba7dba
I will never choose a car with stick shift to drive around. Not in Los Angeles
with the stop/go traffic freeway. Nope.

But it is a useful skill to have. What if you go abroad and have to drive a
stick shift. Looks like in many nations, stick shift is sometimes the only
option.

------
myrandomcomment
Eh, driven both. The PDK in my Porsche is faster then I am. All my friends
that screamed and yelled about being smarter then the PDK I took out for a
ride on a long fun Mt road. At the end they said the PDK was better. This is
and should be a task for a computer.

~~~
nkantar
"Better" is a tricky word.

I have no doubt PDK (and even far less sophisticated (semi-)automated
transmissions) is _faster_ and less likely to make a mistake, but what if
outright performance isn't the ultimate goal?

I had the pleasure of driving a 991.1 GT3 with PDK, and it was blisteringly
fast (both the car and the transmission). But I was definitely more of a
passenger than in my 2004 6-speed manual Miata, and the fact that I noticed
that is pretty telling about my preferences.

In a multi-car garage I certainly wouldn't complain about a great
(semi-)automated transmission in a daily driver (PDK, DSG, DCT, or even ZF's
lauded 8-speed auto), but next to it would have to be a toy with a good
manual.

Here's a fun short video about this:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaUCdAdaaj8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaUCdAdaaj8)

------
epx
Automatic gears are much better for parking, etc. in particular when you have
to park in a gradient. I've always longed for an automatic, bought the first
when I could, and convinced the rest of the family to do the same with "test
drives".

~~~
usaar333
Ya, I have no idea how someone parallel parks a manual (w/out hill assist) on
a 15% grade; I personally have to keep one foot on the break and one foot on
the accelerator!

~~~
nkantar
You can use the e-brake as you lift off the clutch pedal and press on the
accelerator. With some learning, I'm now pretty OK at it after some 13,000
miles of manual driving total.

------
ericfrederich
I bought the new JL Wrangler. For a vehicle that is about fun and adventure I
was between the automatic and manual. When it came time to order and saw the
automatic was a $2k option, it was an easy choice. I could have gone either
way.

~~~
swozey
I've got a JL rubi.

Low speed/rock crawling/grades I feel would suck with a clutch, though. On
fairly basic rough stuff like cutting through woods over logs and what not to
get to my camping destination I often need 2 hands on the wheel to gently
fight mud/etc pulling them in the wrong direction. The easier control of your
torque w/ manual is probably nice, though. When you're doing this stuff you're
typically locked to under 15mph because of the sway bar disconnect (it pops
back on if you hit 17mph) & lockers, so you're not even changing gears out of
1st so maybe it's not even a problem.

Anyway hope you're able to get some adventuring in it, I moved to the big city
and haven't put many miles on mine since I bought it in May. Just a few
offroad trips. Hopefully a caravan to Overland expo next year.

------
legitster
Something to add about why some automakers still offer manuals: they help
bring down the lowest advertised base price (still significantly enough
cheaper) and they help lower CAFE (still a bit of a fuel efficiency benefit).

------
RickJWagner
Sad to see it. I love manual transmissions, they can make driving more fun.

My last car (a Subaru STi) had a nice 6 speed. I replaced it this spring, with
a newer ride that came only with an automatic. Probably is the wave of the
future.

------
matmo
Manuals just make driving fun IMO. I've been trying to find a manual 2013 to
2016 Audi A4 for weeks/months now, and its dishearteningly difficult to find
any without expanding my search to be nationwide.

------
vinayms
Manual transmission s basically the command line of cars. It does have its
utility, like if you are a sysadmin, but for most part a GUI is much better.
Further, as with GUI, automatic transmission poses new problems that need
innovative solutions, and this is always a fun thing to happen.

Automatic transmission is a godsend for developing countries like India where
roads are too crowded, and filled with bad drivers with bad driving etiquette,
and the start-stop driving happens for more than one reason. Its a shame that
the market hasn't grown here, at least AFAIK. On the flip side, making it easy
to drive might worsen the bad driving and make it accessible to even more
incompetent people, as has happened with gearless scooters. It would be
interesting to see how things unfold.

------
aabajian
I have an S2000. It only ever came in manual. It is insanely fun to drive.

------
User23
Real reason is simple: can drive manual implies can drive automatic which
means that automatics are more marketable and dealers adjust inventory
accordingly. Negative feedback loop ensues.

------
skrebbel
A popular topic on HN is how Europe does XYZ better than the US. Particularly
in traffic, actually. But here, the Americans truly got it right.

Most people just want a car to get them from A to B. Manual has little to go
for it among non-car-geeks, other than "people think it's normal" (in Europe).
Automatic is sold as an expensive option here but that makes no sense to me -
how can a chip be more expensive to produce than a physical gear box? I assume
it isn't and the auto companies just charge what they think people are willing
to pay.

I'm glad that EVs are taking hold because then, finally, automatic will become
the default. It breaks a ridiculous habit that benefits nobody.

~~~
cyphar
> Automatic is sold as an expensive option here but that makes no sense to me
> - how can a chip be more expensive to produce than a physical gear box?

I'm not sure what you mean by "chip" here -- all cars have gear boxes (in some
form -- you need to have a way of converting the engine's rotation into wheel
rotation without stalling or overworking the engine) the question is how they
work and what controls the gear ratio. A manual gearbox is actually very
simple conceptually and mechanically, resulting in cheaper hardware (and the
repair costs are quite cheap too).

Common automatics use a fluid coupling as their gearbox with a torque
converter, which is a more complicated piece of machinery (with more
significant repair costs in the medium-term -- a clutch replacement is $1000
while an automatic transmission rebuild is $5000). So it makes some sense that
they are more expensive -- though it's not always the case that automatics are
more expensive to buy (it's only really the case of cheaper cars that they're
always more expensive).

The only kind of automatic I can think of that is a "chip" would be a double-
clutch transmission (which might appear like an automatic to a user), but as
the name suggests under the hood it is two manual transmissions with a
computer trying to predict the future to know what gear is needed next). Those
are even more expensive because they are ridiculously complicated, and
probably require some sort of license from the manufacturer to sell.

~~~
skrebbel
O wow, call me filter bubbled. I just plainly assumed that automatic gear
shifting would be software controlled. Thanks.

------
kup0
I don't drive stick because I don't want to have to do extra work to drive my
car. It would be very annoying. Just a personal preference.

I had no idea that it was becoming so rare, though.

------
beezle
After decades of driving shift I was forced by circumstances into Honda with
auto. I still drive with my left hand on the wheel and right on the shift.

Some of us really do prefer to drive stick.

------
cridenour
Switching to a manual finally killed my habit of "quickly replying" to a text
or e-mail. Sad it took that, but I'll accept my longer lifespan now.

~~~
sebazzz
> habit of "quickly replying" to a text or e-mail.

Once you are on the highway and driving at 80 km/h or above, in most manual
cars you are already shifted to the highest gear. In my Hyundai Matrix I am
already shifted to the highest gear at 55 km/h.

Oh, and regardless which car you have, please, do not touch your mobile phone.

~~~
cridenour
That's true, but most of my driving isn't highway. I think if it was, I'd be
less interested in a manual as it wouldn't change much.

------
httpz
When horse saddles were first invented, I'm sure some people still preferred
bareback horse riding because "you feel more connected to the horse"

------
werber
I'm a far more distracted driver since going automatic

------
vermontdevil
I’ve always owned a stick for years. Then gave up my last one cuz my wife
won’t learn. And I got tired of 10 - 12 hour drives myself. Miss them.

------
dreamcompiler
Anybody planning on renting a car in Europe is going to have trouble if they
don't know how to drive with manual transmission.

------
adreamingsoul
I still drive a stick shift, and still love it.

------
menckenjr
Not all of us don't love it. I have a Chevy HHR with a stick and it's my
"millennial anti-theft device".

------
jeannesmith
[https://www.cydiaguru.com/](https://www.cydiaguru.com/)

------
HeadsUpHigh
Nothing, and I mean _nothing_ will give me the same sense of control that
manual driving gives me.

------
giardini
I still prefer a manual transmission, not the least because it reduces the
likelihood of auto theft.

------
stevehawk
for me - the first sign of stick shift death was the GM LS1 set of vehicles. I
honestly don't know how it was before them, but I know the Camaro Z28, Pontiac
Trans Am, and I believe even the Vette with the LS1 sold the automatic for the
same price as the manual.

------
blunte
Stop and go traffic, when suffered long enough, will drive anyone to an
automatic.

------
scotty79
Is Toyota hybrid an automatic transmission, or completely different beast?

------
johnchristopher
Anecdata: this is the second article on HN this week for which I have seen
another article in one of the national newspapers of the European country I
live in. 2minutes to fall asleep like the military was the other one. Both had
some kind is sensationalist vibe.

Ah, globalisation.

------
mvpu
Horses -> Stick Shift -> Automatic -> Self Driving Cars. Nice.

------
denimnerd
I went to the junkyard got a manual and pedal and put it in my car.

------
spullara
My EV has a manual transmission. 1 forward gear and reverse :)

------
trumped
next step is no transmission... aka electric cars... (I'm glad Musk was not
able to add a transmission to its cars...)

------
skookumchuck
Not even Ferraris come with sticks anymore. It's sad.

Anyhow, a stick is turning into a great car theft prevention device.

------
newnewpdro
This article completely misses what I have observed as a major factor in
nearly everyone switching to automatics:

Drunk driving became illegal, then agressively enforced.

This created a powerful incentive for having a vehicle _anyone_ can drive.

All my friends growing up were gearheads of some kind, and drove manual cars.
Now they have automatics, so they can continue to get drunk when out and have
someone sober (their wives, generally) drive them home.

Don't forget letting the female half of the population drive in the US is a
relatively new development as well...

~~~
mikestew
_Don 't forget letting the female half of the population drive in the US is a
relatively new development as well..._

Do you mean to say "new" as in "before this old man who is bordering on
retirement was born"? Maybe you city folk kept the ladies in the passenger
seat, but out on the farm and you don't drive stick, you're not much use. My
long-dead grandmother drove everything from the farm truck full of livestock
for the sale barn, to driving us kids to church on Sunday when we stayed with
her. Were I to guess, if there were a time women didn't generally drive, it
was maybe the '50s and before. Sure wasn't the 60s.

Besides, as I was discussing with my wife (who shifts more smoothly than you
do) this weekend: manuals aren't what kept women from driving, it was lack of
power steering. You can teach a seven-year-old to drive stick.

~~~
newnewpdro
Any societal shift I can clearly see in my lifetime beginning with my
grandparents spanning into my generation I consider relatively new.

Hell it's still a novelty to see coverage of women in automobile racing. Even
when they aren't competitive, the media will broadcast their image just for
participation alone.

Culturally, it's still fairly common to hear comments about women drivers
being inferior.

So I think we're clearly not even out of the woods yet today.

