
Searchable PPP Loan Data - lgats
https://pppreport.org/
======
eric_b
So many complaints here. Based on the comments I think there is some
misunderstanding about the nuts and bolts of this program.

These are loans. They are two year low interest loans. They have to be paid
back unless some or all is forgiven. Forgiveness requires documentation on
employees retained, wage history, and is capped at $20k/employee maximum. And
of course a piece of that comes back to the government in terms of payroll
taxes. Just because a company took a 1M loan, doesn't mean it will be 100%
forgiven.

For those complaining the companies don't "need" the money - I know many
households who received $4k+ in stimulus checks that didn't need it. Should
they not have taken it?

And anyways, the whole point of this program was to get money to businesses
quickly. Means testing takes time. Sure there are going to be some
questionable loans. Some fraud too. But overall our government has spent a lot
more money and gotten worse returns than the PPP.

~~~
tinalumfoil
> Should they not have taken it?

I seriously considered not cashing my stimulus check until I talked to
_multiple_ well off people that cashed their dead relative's checks. There
just isnt a cultural expectation in the US that you wouldn't take what you're
given.

EDIT: Rethinking my comment I'm giving myself too much credit. Since I never
got a physical check, I couldn't have "not cashed it" if I wanted to.

~~~
mc32
>’ cashed their dead relative's checks.’

Unless there is some weird allowance (widower/widow inheritance, etc.)
wouldn’t this be straight fraud?

I know in some countries people don’t report their relatives’ deaths in order
to keep receiving their benefits, but obviously that’s illegal too.

~~~
A4ET8a8uTh0
Short answer is likely yes. Long answer is that depending on individual bank
policy regarding depositing 3rd party checks, relationship with tellers/branch
manager/what have you, or whether person verifying exceptions for remote
deposit is sleepy that day, it may very well end up being undetected. And
thats checks. ACH is a whole different can of worms.

In a sense, I am glad it is getting some scrutiny as clearly people who did
not need the money benefited ( likely at the expense of people who really
needed it - the currently public fraud cases are pretty amazing already ), but
I am worried that this kind of scrutiny will make people hesitant to apply in
the future just to avoid the headache.

~~~
mc32
Doing some of that could get people into lots of trouble. Not sure if they
could get them with wire fraud if it’s a physical check but at least financial
fraud, impersonation, faking a signature, caching someone else’s check, etc...

------
hprotagonist
Without this program, my employer would have had to either lay off a large
group of employees or we would've gone under.

As it is, out of a group of about 50, we furloughed 8, who continued without
pay, qualified for unemployment benefits, but retained 100% health coverage.
Two have returned to work already and we anticipate being more or less normal
again in time to meet the loan forgiveness criteria.

It's good to have the database open to see -- and, hey, to double-check that
we actually got it.

~~~
_curious_
So will your employer be paying the "loan" back?

~~~
dopamean
Most of the loan isn't designed to be paid back. So what are you getting at?

~~~
_curious_
Some people - and the companies they operate - will, given the option, on
principle, not take money which they have not earned.

In the event that they did/do accept said money they did not earn, and that
money was applied effectively and literally saved their asses in an emergency
that they were not properly prepared for - they would never forget it and do
whatever it took to repay this money that saved their life because they are
grateful.

These examples do exist, I know personally know of some and maybe you do
too...or not? But that's what I am getting at: everyone has different morals
and values. Further, it's helpful to know what those are (when manifested into
the form of a corporation) because then we get to make informed choices about
who want to work for and with based on value systems. We vote every day with
our feet, our dollars, and our attention.

Would I rather work for an employer who did what it took to navigate the Covid
shitstorm on their own dime or the one who needed a lifeline and didn't even
have the decency to pay back what was never theirs to begin with? Obviously.

Why do you think people are so interested in this data set? Many are acting on
this intel in more ways than you think!

~~~
hprotagonist
We're VC backed, dude, that "money we haven't earned" ship sailed a loooong
time ago.

On the flip side, the way you "pay it back" to your Noble Investors is to keep
the ship afloat and deliver a ROI with a healthy and competent team.

Increasing shareholder value and also doing the right thing and coming up with
a way to give our furloughed teammates health benefits during a pandemic was,
I suspect, an easy decision for senior staff to make. I'm a lowly scientist, I
don't get to make those calls -- but you won't hear me complaining about this
course we chose, either.

------
greatwave1
I'm working on a dashboard to map each of these loans geographically:
[https://www.quiverquant.com/sources/sbaloans](https://www.quiverquant.com/sources/sbaloans)

It's a slow process (as I've been respectful of the rate-limit on the reverse
geocoding API I'm using), but I finished mapping four states and hope to
complete the other 46 by the end of this week.

~~~
antisthenes
Wouldn't you just end up with a population density map?

Cool project though.

~~~
greatwave1
My goal for this map was a tool to search for PPP recipients within your own
neighborhood.

You're right that it would be interesting to do analysis on population-
adjusted loan amounts for different regions... maybe something like a loan $
per capita map?

~~~
mbesto
I was thinking the same thing about the author from above as well.

What I think would be much more interesting is to see what businesses have
physical B&M locations. In other words, cross reference Yelp/Google Places
with the legal entity's address. Or maybe cross referenced against
unemployment numbers by state/city (if that data exists).

------
Amorymeltzer
Peripherally related, but this tweet by @dataeditor at the Washington Post was
amusing
([https://twitter.com/dataeditor/status/1280278987797942272](https://twitter.com/dataeditor/status/1280278987797942272)):

>Philadelphia, to its own credit, is spelled at least 57 different ways in the
PPP loan data

(an image is included, with various items, such as "PHIADELPHIA",
"PHILADELPHIA,", and "PHILLY")

Pretty well sums up data science. He also notes that Chicago is spelled 31
ways
([https://twitter.com/dataeditor/status/1280277322596311041](https://twitter.com/dataeditor/status/1280277322596311041)).

~~~
cjlars
Data's all sorts of messed up in this. My friend's company is in this and 3
columns are flat out wrong and different from what he submitted. There's only
7 applicant submitted columns!

But remember where it came from: thousands of lenders hand keying this stuff
in with minimal guidance.

------
koolba
Per
[https://pppreport.org/company/y+combinator+research+inc](https://pppreport.org/company/y+combinator+research+inc)

> We found 1 loan(s) for Y Combinator Research Inc meeting or exceeding the
> public reporting minimum of $150k.

> Loan Amount Range $150,000-350,000

> Business Name as Filed Y COMBINATOR RESEARCH, INC.

Is YC Research an entirely separate entity from YC core?

~~~
spocklivelong
Why is it listed as a Non-profit?

~~~
cosmie
Because Y Combinator Research is a non-profit[1].

That said, it's apparently no longer associated with Y Combinator, and goes by
OpenResearch now[2].

[1]
[https://www.guidestar.org/profile/81-0861414](https://www.guidestar.org/profile/81-0861414)

[2] [https://ycr.org/](https://ycr.org/)

------
earthscienceman
I love that an official SBA/federal release can have a file titled: "PPP loan
data key things to keep in mind FINAL- Sunday.pdf". Nothing says "over-it"
like all caps "FINAL-Sunday".

Also, maybe even funnier, is that the "Ayn Rand Institute" applied for a
loan... that's the best thing in the database I've found so far.

~~~
reaperducer
It doesn't say "over it." It means it's the final revision. This is very
common terminology among people who prepare documents like journalists,
editors, public relations, etc...

~~~
robbyt
Also, working on a government project on a Sunday is very common for people
who probably do not like their job.

------
fullstop
Here's a Youth Baseball group which received 5-10 Million:
[https://pppreport.org/company/lafayette+youth+baseball+assoc...](https://pppreport.org/company/lafayette+youth+baseball+association)

edit: [https://www.naics.com/code-
search/?naicstrms=814110](https://www.naics.com/code-search/?naicstrms=814110)
"Private Households"

------
mikemac
One thing to note is there seems to be a lot of errors in the data. For
instance, Bird is in the 5-10M range but claimed it never actually applied.

[https://www.axios.com/paycheck-protection-program-
disclosure...](https://www.axios.com/paycheck-protection-program-disclosure-
problems-1b1b8f81-b3de-4ec8-bacc-5312ac6d53f3.html)

------
llamataboot
I really think we should not call these loans, as that obscures what they are.
Like it or not, the vast majority of these will be forgiven. We could argue
that it was a good use a stimulus funds, or a bad use, but it was basically
fre money funneled through businesses in a fairly un-transparent way.

Of particular reference here - startups that laid off employees and /then/
applied for a PPP loan

[https://layoffs.fyi/2020/07/06/these-startups-received-
ppp-b...](https://layoffs.fyi/2020/07/06/these-startups-received-ppp-bailout-
loans-but-still-laid-off-employees/)

~~~
marcinzm
>Of particular reference here - startups that laid off employees and /then/
applied for a PPP loan

Aren't these exactly the companies that SHOULD have received PPP? They were
clearly struggling and without the money were reducing head count already.

~~~
throwaway_kufu
Why should taxpayers have bailed out businesses that couldn’t keep employees
on payroll though?

There is no end in sight to either corona virus or the economic downturn, so
it’s just throwing 8 weeks worth of taxpayer money into bad investments.
What’s going to happen within 8 weeks to ensure these employees won’t just be
let go again?

~~~
revnode
> Why should taxpayers have bailed out businesses that couldn’t keep employees
> on payroll though?

Because those same taxpayers voted in a government that prohibited many of
those businesses from operating.

> There is no end in sight to either corona virus or the economic downturn, so
> it’s just throwing 8 weeks worth of taxpayer money into bad investments.
> What’s going to happen within 8 weeks to ensure these employees won’t just
> be let go again?

The purpose of the funds isn't to prevent future unemployment. It's to funnel
funds to individuals who would otherwise be unemployed. The funds can only be
used for payroll to be forgiven. So this is an unemployment payout by other
means, in addition to the federal unemployment benefits that were expanded.

~~~
throwaway_kufu
Taxpayers owe businesses nothing, if a business can’t survive 8 weeks without
a taxpayer bailout then it’s a bad investment and at this scale it is a
fundamental weakness of the entire economy that should be fixed not propped up
with taxpayer money.

> The funds can only be used for payroll to be forgiven.

That an odd way to say up to 25% of the loan can be used for non-payroll
expenses like business rent...why are businesses getting loans to pay rent if
it’s about employees? Employees didn’t get money for rent.

If it was truly about “funneling funds to individuals” they could have just
done that, not given it to businesses first with a 25% extra for non-payroll
expenses.

~~~
digitaltrees
No business can survive under those conditions and that is not a valid
critique of their viability under a range of ordinary conditions.

Tax payer do own businesses due process under law and a respect for private
property rights. In America, the government can’t seize a business without
compensation. Mandatory shut downs, in the absence of financial assistance, is
arguably a “taking” under the constitution and a violation of basic
inalienable rights we as citizens each have.

As far as 25% being spend on other things. It’s kind of pointless to pay
employees but not pay rent, get evicted, and have no place for them to
go...kind of defeats the point. A restaurant kind of needs its physical
location to operate and offer people jobs.

This isn’t about “funneling funds to individuals” that’s what unemployment
insurance and stimulus checks were for. This was also about saving businesses
so we don’t enter a depression.

~~~
throwaway_kufu
> Mandatory shut downs, in the absence of financial assistance, is arguably a
> “taking” under the constitution

False, government does this to businesses all the time and compensation isn’t
due. Take hurricanes in Florida and mandatory shutdown/evacuation orders,
there is no promised compensation.

Besides under imminent domain cases, I’d like to see some case law to support
taxpayers bailing out businesses.

~~~
digitaltrees
Actually there is promised compensation in hurricane emergencies in the form
of SBA EIDL (economic injury disaster loans).

The existence of imminent domain proves my point, there are circumstances
where tax payers owe An obligation to property owners and their actions are
restricted by that obligation. Now we can argue about whether this specific
act is a taking but I destroyed your blanket argument that tax payers don’t
own business anything.

Own a business with a plot of land, tax payers want to expand a road and tear
down your office and take the land? Can’t do it without paying.

~~~
throwaway_kufu
In imminent domain if your property is taken you receive compensation, here
many businesses closed and didn’t get PPP money, the government picked winners
and losers.

Again feel free to cite any law supporting your argument: 1) the shutdown
orders were a government taking of private property; And 2.) compensation for
a temporary taking.

You missed the entire point of hurricanes, before any damage occurs
governments order shutdowns and evacuations, there is no taking and there is
no compensation for those shutdown and evacuation orders.

~~~
vonmoltke
> You missed the entire point of hurricanes, before any damage occurs
> governments order shutdowns and evacuations, there is no taking and there is
> no compensation for those shutdown and evacuation orders.

The time between evacuation order and landfall is at most four days. The
economic damage from that phase is minor.

There are businesses in some parts of the US that are in their fourth _month_
of being forcibly closed. The situation is not in any way, shape, or form
comparable to a hurricane evacuation.

------
css
Kinda funny seeing how investment management firms [0] (mis)use this [1].

[0]:
[https://pppreport.org/company/gerber+kawasaki+inc](https://pppreport.org/company/gerber+kawasaki+inc)

[1]: [https://www.naics.com/code-
search/?naicstrms=441228](https://www.naics.com/code-search/?naicstrms=441228)

------
nullc
There are a remarkable number of sketchy blockchain companies in this list--
many for larger $5 to $10 million dollar ranges.

I wonder how many of them were sitting on millions or tens or even hundreds of
millions of deceptively obtained ICO funds at the time they obtained these
'loans'.

E.g. I see at least one that raised over 100k BTC in ICO funding just couple
years ago.

~~~
vmception
Although ICO purchasers like to imagine they have investments in "not-
securities", proper accounting of token sales from the issuer is revenue, and
payroll goes to employees.

So if they had that revenue and also paid payroll to employees in 2019, they
would be eligible.

The 2018 ones were screwed though, too far back. They probably exhausted a lot
of their runway on marketing and extortionate exchanges.

Blockchain community is unique in that they treat $5-10 million raises as
"forever money" for an indefinite time period, when even Series A tech
companies would not be expected to last more than 15-18 months.

So there are a lot of misalignments in that sector, which are poorly
understood by both the people in the sector, as well as critics outside of the
sector.

The issuers themselves often have good legal help and proper accounting, as it
is a tricky regulatory environment to begin with, which exacerbates these
misalignments with their purchasers and psychological investors.

~~~
nullc
> often have good legal help

That hasn't been my experience, instead my experience is that many of these
companies went through large numbers of lawyers who told them what they wanted
to do would be likely found to be illegal before finding some that would sign
off on it.

> "forever money" for an indefinite time period

For the most part this is because they don't deliver anything useful, so they
won't get any more (at least not until they spin up a new operation under
another name).

Some of the companies I see in that database have principals who are on their
third or more failed blockchain/ico and hey have become exceedingly efficient
at it.

~~~
vmception
ICOs are very expensive and the exchanges extort via listing fees, requiring
market makers that want the issuer to post liquidity in both their token and
multiple negotiable assets, continually, and then the market makers passing
commission costs from the exchanges onto the ICO team.

This is continued because nobody can talk about it as they will immediately
get delisted, the community will point fingers at the project team, AND the
regulators will view the issuer as promising liquidity which further moves
their asset into unregistered securities land, opening them to sanctions for
the sale and promotion.

Ultimately the token traders and critics have no clue what's going on and
think the founders have to be married to a software project with a runway that
lasts forever because software development shouldn't be that expensive.

Yes selling tokens is a viable revenue event, but not a recurring revenue
event for that project. So launching new projects is the only way to do that,
and prior experience is more important to the actual investors providing the
bankroll who make a lot of money putting these together. Many people are
buying them for the wrong reasons, and there totally could be a market of the
same size of people buying them without an expectation of profit.

It is an entirely viable business to make a website with one button that says
"purchase button tokens to vote on the CSS color of this button by staking!",
which I think should be recognized.

Even the concept of "failed" is misaligned and more often related to exchange
rates and volume of the token, more than whether the team did anything.

There is a whole other market of investors bankrolling the parent
organizations that are churning out ICOs, because all they see are highly
scalable revenues and a multiple of that.

The people buying them need to be more discerning if they want a different
result. Token issuance is primarily a game of entertainment and placating a
community, and it should be put in that category. Or the community should be
an active participant in making the token more useful and valuable.

They certainly do have employees and would be eligible for PPP. If they lied
and are in a game of chronic fraud, now featuring the US Treasury, that's
pretty risky!

------
hardtke
My kids' private school recently sent out a $500 per student tuition credit
(about $650K for the entire school). I see now that they got a multi million
dollar PPP loan (which will be forgiven). Their revenues were unaffected by
the epidemic (full enrollment for next year and no plans to rollback the
tuition increase).

~~~
ryanwaggoner
My kid's private school also got a PPP loan, but I don't begrudge them that at
all. They applied for the program according to the rules and they're using
that money to pay for necessities. While our school also hasn't (yet) lost
much in the way of enrollment, their finances _are_ worse now:

\- more costs for financial aid

\- more costs for cleaning and retrofitting facilities

\- more costs for experts on reopening safely

\- more costs for online education programs (software, training, etc)

\- refunds of after-school programs, field trips, etc.

\- fewer donations from alumni

The only thing that's really improved is maybe utilities? They 100% would have
laid off teachers if they didn't get the PPP. It's ludicrous that people are
begrudging schools for using this program exactly as intended.

------
tfandango
Just looking through my home town for businesses I know about... A fair number
of them I know carried on with business as usual and had no financial problems
(one I used to work for). Seems wrong when there are lots of people in the
same town lining up outside the unemployment office every day...

~~~
cj
Not sure why this comment is being downvoted.

I just searched my local city and noticed that our (for profit) ambulance
service received a loan:

> DIAZ MEMORIAL AMBULANCE SERVICE INC

I definitely don't think they saw the number of ambulance rides go down. And
also don't think their profits suffered.

~~~
eli
With all elective surgeries cancelled? I dunno but I’d be careful making
assumptions.

~~~
troebr
I agree with not making assumptions. However I don't think you'd take an
ambulance for an elective surgery since it's not an emergency.

~~~
reaperducer
Ambulances aren't only used for emergencies. They're used to transport people
who can't otherwise get around, or who need medical equipment with them, or
who are recovering from surgery, or to move patients from hospital to
hospital, and a hundred other uses.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that emergencies are a small portion of what
ambulances are used for, but I don't have access to that data.

------
schoolornot
Of all types of institutions, why should we be giving the banks the right to
decide which businesses should be recession proof or not? Personal opinion but
I would have required the applicants of these quasi-forgiveness loans to give
up 35% of their businesses to the state/county/federal inclusive of all assets
and investments non-dischargeable by bankruptcy.

We have 100,000 people dead in this country, million dollar hospital bills for
those on vents, and yet the stream of cash continues to flow to those too
stupid to save a few months of operating expenses/payroll. What a trash
society the US has become.

~~~
mardifoufs
I don't think you realize just how perilous the economic situation was in mid-
late march. Money had to reach Businesses very quickly, regardless if some of
the money would end up wasted. Only banks have the manpower, infrastructure
and knowledge already in place to reach even small businesses across the
entire country. There was absolutely no way for any governmental agency to be
able to manage such a huge program in such a small timeframe.

Again, I can't stress how important time was. I study and work in financial
engineering, and from what I've seen and directly experienced in the depth of
the crisis, we were days from total seizure in the financial system. The only
part that was still doing ok was banking (due to what happened after 2008).
Adding to that, since it's much harder to just give millions of dollars of
loans to anyone who demands than it is to give 2000$ per person through the
IRS, you had to have a system to vet, check and analyse claims. That's exactly
what banks were able to do almost immediately with minimal adjustments.

I agree that it is far from ideal for the private sector to such a big
influence on a public program. But perfect is the enemy of good, especially
considering the incredible human misery that failing could've led to.

~~~
digitaltrees
Great response. I wish all of the people criticizing these efforts would
actually try to design a better program. Even the thought exercise would show
how difficult it would be. Easier to crap on the work of others than actually
do it yourself.

I also wish they would think about the consequences of no action. They
probably don’t realize that cascade bank failures and supply chain disruptions
happen fast and become permanent. In March there was a realistic possibility
of systematic seizure of finance and the supply chain grinding to a total halt
due to lack of financing. How do you stock groceries when they can’t buy
inventory?

~~~
schoolornot
I remain unconvinced that so many companies were on "thin ice" that a do
nothing approach would have caused a collapse. Any evidence of this?

I would've been okay-ish with the arrangement if there was some narrow
qualification criteria like being in the grocery business or medical supply
chain, etc.

Fine dining restaurants: not essential Summer camps: not essential Non-
profits: not essential Law firms: not essential either!

And yet we paid them millions... _why?_

I picked a random company from the 150k list. A pizza place, around the
corner. Been in business since 2007. They received $150,000-350,000. So a
place deemed essential by the governor and that's permitted to operate
curbside and takeout delivery after being open for 13 years is eligible for
150k? What kind of drugs are we on?

~~~
mardifoufs
Yes, but the vast majority of the money is going to salaries. I'd even argue
that there is absolutely no problem in funding even most of the "non
essential" businesses. And to say that businesses were on thin ice by april is
an understatement by the way: revenue disappeared overnight, lending froze
almost overnight, liquidity became almost impossible to access. Even by early
april half small businesses could not afford to pay rent, much less salaries.
The financial system has never seen anything like what happened to march, I
can't stress enough that almost _every single_ "pipe" that make up systems we
all depend on was collapsing. Programs like these took aways tons of
uncertainty and deep fears of a recovery that would take a very, very long
time. Things got much better when government support boosted confidence and
guaranteed that people will still have money to spend.

Now I've heard people argue that compensation for lost salaries should've been
paid directly to the employees if they lost their jobs. But to put it mildly,
recovery and return back to normal would have been extraordinarily harder if
most of the non essential parts of the economy don't exist anymore.

The price of letting everything go bankrupt only to reopen from scratch later
is enormous and would amount to incredible waste not only of money but also
years of work. The 150k may have been way too much for a local pizzeria, but
it's better to overshoot than to aim for much better money allocation and risk
losing precious time. You have to keep in mind that not only do businesses
have to pay back the loans (if the money didn't go to salaries) but also that
we will have ample time to take a closer look at each individual claim and
punish fraud retroactively. The process is already starting as we can see with
the linked website.

At the end of the day, we just couldn't afford to have a better PPP program
because no matter how much money we lose on fraud and waste, the alternative
would have always been more expensive.

------
svachalek
Hmm, right at the top, 4 loans to 4 different businesses through 3 different
banks to a residential address, including "venture capital" and "investment
empire".

[https://pppreport.org/location/CA/CAMPBELL](https://pppreport.org/location/CA/CAMPBELL)

Most of the rest here look pretty legit as far as I can tell. The carwash got
3 loans which seems a little fishy? but to be fair they are a very busy one
with a lot of employees.

------
graton
I was surprised that O'Reilly had a loan for $5-$10 million.

[https://pppreport.org/company/o+reilly+media+inc](https://pppreport.org/company/o+reilly+media+inc)

They seem like a company where most people can work from home.

EDIT: I totally forgot about their conference business. That makes more sense.

~~~
bjt
Their conferences business took a huge hit.

~~~
toby
Huge hit is a bit of an understatement... they've cancelled all future
conferences, likely permanently

~~~
pgwhalen
Why permanently?

~~~
lmeyerov
The people who built it up are now gone

------
bengotow
This is great! I wish it was searchable by bank though. I heard that a local
bank was making some interesting choices about who they helped through the PPP
program and I'd love to pull up all the results by Lender.

~~~
graton
You can download the CSV and search it yourself:
[https://sba.app.box.com/s/wz72fqag1nd99kj3t9xlq49deoop6gzf](https://sba.app.box.com/s/wz72fqag1nd99kj3t9xlq49deoop6gzf)

Linked from this page: [https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/cares-
act/assistance...](https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/cares-
act/assistance-for-small-businesses/sba-paycheck-protection-program-loan-
level-data)

------
mattbeckman
You can get a $5-10 Million loan for 14 employees at a nail salon?

[https://pppreport.org/company/snappy+nails+s+p+a+9+inc](https://pppreport.org/company/snappy+nails+s+p+a+9+inc)

Damn.

~~~
rco8786
Worth noting that they will owe this back unless they can show it was used for
payroll purposes.

How they got that much money in the first place is a definite mystery though.

~~~
sriram_sun
What if they go bankrupt after generously paying employees?

~~~
kradroy
That would be considered "mala fides" and the court would likely hold the
officers/directors liable for the loan amount. Also, prior to filing for
bankruptcy any attorney worth his spit will advise his client to fully repay
or continue paying obligations to the US government. US government-backed
loans are very difficult to completely discharge in a bankruptcy.

------
phreeza
[https://pppreport.org/company/ayn+rand+institute+center+for+...](https://pppreport.org/company/ayn+rand+institute+center+for+advancement+of+objectivism)

~~~
abtinf
[https://newideal.aynrand.org/we-took-ppp-funds-and-would-
do-...](https://newideal.aynrand.org/we-took-ppp-funds-and-would-do-it-again/)

------
bennylope
simonw published a searchable copy of this via Datasette: [https://sba-loans-
covid-19.datasettes.com](https://sba-loans-covid-19.datasettes.com)

You can filter by state, city, zipcode, bank, business type, and search by
employer name, e.g. [https://sba-loans-
covid-19.datasettes.com/loans_150k_plus/fo...](https://sba-loans-
covid-19.datasettes.com/loans_150k_plus/foia_150k_plus?_search=Ayn+Rand&_sort=rowid)

------
hownottowrite
The purpose of the Paycheck Protection Program is to keep people off of
unemployment. The type of company taking the loan really doesn’t matter.
Revenues don’t matter. What matters is that they have the employees (salary)
to justify the funds. Forgiveness will be granted when they demonstrate
they’ve kept their staffing levels the same. The whole thing is designed to
prevent even more job losses. That’s it.

------
simonw
I have a Datasette running of this here: [https://sba-loans-
covid-19.datasettes.com/loans_150k_plus/fo...](https://sba-loans-
covid-19.datasettes.com/loans_150k_plus/foia_150k_plus)

You can run your own SQL queries against it. Here's a query I wrote that shows
the most common NAICS codes (industry categorization from the census):

[https://sba-loans-covid-19.datasettes.com/loans_150k_plus?sq...](https://sba-
loans-
covid-19.datasettes.com/loans_150k_plus?sql=with+counts+as+%28select+NAICSCode%2C+count%28*%29+as+num_loan_recipients+from+foia_150k_plus+group+by+NAICSCode+order+by+num_loan_recipients+desc%29%0D%0Aselect+counts.NAICSCode%2C+counts.num_loan_recipients%2C+naics_2017.name%2C+%27https%3A%2F%2Fsba-
loans-
covid-19.datasettes.com%2Floans_150k_plus%2Ffoia_150k_plus%3F_facet%3DCity%26_facet%3DState%26_facet%3DRaceEthnicity%26_facet%3DBusinessType%26_facet%3DGender%26_facet%3DVeteran%26NAICSCode%3D%27+%7C%7C+NAICSCode+as+view_them+from+counts+join+naics_2017+on+counts.NAICSCode+%3D+naics_2017.id)

You can click through from there to get faceted search of e.g. every loan made
to a dentist:

[https://sba-loans-covid-19.datasettes.com/loans_150k_plus/fo...](https://sba-
loans-
covid-19.datasettes.com/loans_150k_plus/foia_150k_plus?_facet=City&_facet=State&_facet=RaceEthnicity&_facet=BusinessType&_facet=Gender&_facet=Veteran&NAICSCode=621210)

I have full notes about how I built this here: [https://github.com/simonw/sba-
loans-covid-19-datasette](https://github.com/simonw/sba-loans-
covid-19-datasette)

------
digitaltrees
I think PPP saved the economy. We can scapegoat and find problems. But don’t
ignore what would have happened in its absence. Companies would reduce
spending at the very least or go out of business at the worst. We would have
entered a self reinforcing cycle of reduced spending and purchasing creating a
depression.

~~~
uptown
"I think PPP saved the economy."

You ain't seen nothing yet.

~~~
digitaltrees
Only if people criticize these initial attempts and prevent more assistance.
Yes. This is going to get worse, but government support could continue.

~~~
luckylion
That's pretty much what people describe when they say "privatize the profits,
socialize the losses", isn't it?

And you're already preparing to shift the blame towards the people critical of
that approach.

~~~
digitaltrees
Privatizing profit and socializing losses is better applied to more ordinary
situations where ordinary business risk is shifted to the public. Here we are
taking about the total possible social loss caused by a pandemic, not ordinary
business risk. The point is that in society will be more harmed by inaction
than supporting businesses.

------
llacb47
I like this better:
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/business/sba-
pp...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/business/sba-ppp-data/)

------
nodesocket
I live in Nashville, and a lot of the places as to be expected are bars and
restaurants.

[https://pppreport.org/location/TN/NASHVILLE](https://pppreport.org/location/TN/NASHVILLE)

------
_curious_
How interesting it is...not even through the A's yet in my major city and I am
seeing peer companies on here reporting more "jobs retained" than they even
employ...if that doesn't indicate what a scam this whole thing is, what would
it take to make that clear?

Edit to add: further down the list I am seeing tech co's that actually laid
off large % of employees that received millions still.

They probably were not counting on this information becoming public (though it
obviously is/should be by default)...any respect I may have had for them is no
more. Disgusting behavior.

------
dsalzman
I made a graphical map of this PPP data. Here
[https://www.dannysalzman.com/2020/07/07/map-of-ppp-
funding](https://www.dannysalzman.com/2020/07/07/map-of-ppp-funding)

Full screen -
[https://www.dannysalzman.com/files/ppp_map_v1](https://www.dannysalzman.com/files/ppp_map_v1)

Warning - large file download (128mb) doesn't work well on mobile

------
lgats
For some more digging, here is a list of S.E.C. registered companies loosely
matched to the dataset using the company name:
[https://pppreport.org/sec.php](https://pppreport.org/sec.php)

-list contains any company with a ticker [current/previous OTC stock or other]

-likely to contain many false associations, but still full of surprises
    
    
       $NTN, $6.3m Market Cap
       $TRNF, $22m Market Cap
       $FAT, $40m Market Cap
       each received 1-2 million in PPP

------
dvaun
Where is this data sourced from?

Edit: I tried accessing some common endpoints like /about to see if there are
any unlinked pages, but could not find any. Hence why I asked the question.

~~~
lgats
About page is a work-in-progress. Data source is:
[https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/cares-
act/assistance...](https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/cares-
act/assistance-for-small-businesses/sba-paycheck-protection-program-loan-
level-data)

~~~
basch
As long as you have Excel, Sheets, Numbers etc, it's a lot more pleasant to
navigate the original csv, with filters, sort, etc.

------
downvoteme1
I have a question that somebody more knowledgeable can answer.

My company, a recruitment agency, took 2 to 5 million in these loans and kept
me hired . But since my main client kept me hired , the recruitment agency
kept paying me. So did this recruitment agency just make 2-5 million in free
money - just by proving that they ran my payroll- which they did. because the
client kept me hired anyway.

------
raviolo
So, what if a business was successful, not impacted by covid, and wasn’t
planning to lay off any employees anyway? Say, technology consulting company
with 100 employees. Took out a PPP “loan”, which will be promptly forgiven
since they keep the staff, who gets to keep the money? Something tells me 100%
goes to business owner and 0% to employees.

I think there are quite a few companies like this. Hence “money goes to those
who least need it”.

~~~
zzleeper
You are exactly right. In fact, I know of a few businesses that actually had
MORE business (wholesalers), and the CEO of one told my friend that he was
just going to use the money to buy his wife a new Porsche. This is anecdotal
for sure, but there is no reason why firms wouldn't rely on free money as long
as they are amoral enough.

If I had implemented the plan, I would have just created a program where the
program only covered a % of the wages (say 80% instead of 100%) and mostly
only for people who were not able to work. Of course, that brings other
problems, but there is a middle ground somewhere in there.

~~~
raviolo
And I know a business owner who is shopping for a new house after getting a
PPP “loan”. Sure, PPP money is supposed to be used for payroll. No problem,
one can indeed use PPP money for payroll 100%. But then use the business
revenue, 90% of which would normally be used for payroll, to take out a nice
bonus and buy a house.

------
aazaa
It's a little surprising how many are banks. A few random searches showed
about 80% of the companies are banks.

On reflection, though, not so surprising.

~~~
HaloZero
Huh, I didn't really see that. I did some cursory searches and haven't found a
lot of banks.

Maybe you're thinking the lender field is the category of the company?

------
unstatusthequo
This is great intel for those who will phish the recipients. There’s a point
where transparency causes risk...

------
bl4ckneon
Something I find amusing is the amount of miss spellings for some bigger
cities. San Francisco is spelled around 10 different ways. You think people
would spell check the city they live in before asking for hundreds of
thousands of dollars or more...

------
j-c-hewitt
Anyone who saw these offers and did not expect the strings attached in terms
of government meddling and/or decentralized witch-hunting for taking the money
offered was foolish. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

------
xrd
Does anyone know the requirements around getting these loans? For example, if
employees were furloughed without pay (but kept healthcare) are they still
within bounds of the loan if they indicate they retained the jobs listed?

~~~
ksdale
You don't get forgiveness for wages you don't pay.

~~~
fullstop
Is there any penalty for increasing wages after receiving the "loan" ?

~~~
ksdale
Increasing whose wages?

~~~
fullstop
Those who are having their Paycheck Protected.

------
unethical_ban
There are several scenarios that frustrate me.

Examples like law firms or physicians' offices. These are relatively small
firms with very wealthy principals. They are asking for taxpayer money to
maintain their wealthy lifestyles, so they don't have to sacrifice their
Bentleys to pay staffers. Examples: Thomas J Henry in San Antonio.

LLCs and franchisees that probably have millions of dollars in holdings and
cash, but act under the guise of "small business" because they operate fast
food or something.

Religious organizations. It's one thing if something like a local YMCA gets
funds, but a church outright getting funds without proving it is going to
public services (why don't we just have better public services?) is not
proper. Churches already don't pay taxes.

~~~
pkulak
Those things only frustrate me if they aren't loans, which they would be,
right?

~~~
bananabreakfast
No, they're not really loans, they are basically free money.

They only have to be paid back if you end up firing the workers you were
supposed to keep employed with the loan. If they stay employed then your
"loan" is fully forgiven.

~~~
pkulak
That's what I mean. You have to explicitly use them for payroll within 2
months of acceptance, and retain 75% of your staff, and a lot of companies are
not bothering with that and just taking the low-interest loan. A loan is still
something, but it's not even in the same area code as a grant.

------
I_am_tiberius
I'm wondering why Saas companies like "CODA PROJECT INC" are on that list. I
would have assumed they are not effected by the corona crisis. I thought they
would benefit from it.

~~~
albntomat0
If their customers have significantly reduced income due to the pandemic, SaaS
companies will get hit as well, even if they work from home, and their
immediate customers (other businesses) do so as well.

------
floatingatoll
OP, could you add to the About page the total amount of loans issued where the
loan amount was $150k+? It would provide a lot of context for this data.

------
rakjosh
I was working on a similar website :) [https://ppp-loan.info/](https://ppp-
loan.info/)

------
chanmad29
I hate billionaires not spending this pocket change but depending on
government for such loans. But to play devil's advocate, aren't these most/all
companies set up as limited liability, and therefore these billionaire owners
are absolved of any responsibility to take on such bailouts? So is this moral
problem or more a structural problem on how the enterprise is being set up?

~~~
ryanwaggoner
"Billionaires" (or the much, much more common millionaires and hundred-
thousand-aires who own most companies) wouldn't "spend the pocket change",
they'd just lay people off or furlough them. This program was designed to keep
businesses afloat _and_ to keep them from laying off employees. It's a nice
idea to think that all these companies would just altruistically keep their
employees around doing nothing while they're shut down, but that wouldn't
happen.

------
gm
Just so you all know, Twitter's going crazy with the apparent rampant
inaccuracy of the database.

~~~
WrongThinkerNo5
Is the complain about the DB of the website or the raw data is inaccurate?

The former I can shrug off as insignificant, the latter is mildly terrifying
and makes you wonder how the hell we can trust anything the government does
when they can't even take care of keeping track of triple billons of dollars
of other people's ... namely, people who did not get any stimulus ... money.

But I guess the bureaucrats and kleptocratic government must have been ramping
it up after the billions upon billions they "lost" in Iraq without a trace.
This is probably going to turn into politicians and bureaucrats throwing up
their hands when companies claim that the information is inaccurate and they
owe nothing and the government cannot prove anything, a la, housing fraud.

------
heurist
Definitely missing some, one of my companies is not listed (sub-$100k loan).

~~~
fullstop
It only includes loans over $150k.

edit: I swear I can type

~~~
georgespencer
> It only includes loans up to $150k

Do you mean "over" $150k? Parent's loan was <$150k.

~~~
fullstop
I did, my mistake.

------
ethagknight
What do the letters next to the loan amount mean?

~~~
fullstop
I am guessing that it was the letter code entered on the application form.

------
chejazi
Anyone know the reasoning for the $150k cutoff?

~~~
knowhy
The raw data for loans under $150k seem to be here:
[https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/cares-
act/assistance...](https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/cares-
act/assistance-for-small-businesses/sba-paycheck-protection-program-loan-
level-data)

[https://pppreport.org/about.php](https://pppreport.org/about.php) > Details
for loans under $150,000 remain mostly private, though industry codes and
issuing bank details are available.

------
sajit
Admire the transperancy.

------
thedogeye
Not a good look for the Ayn Rand Institute lol

~~~
nullc
[https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ayn-rand-social-
security/](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ayn-rand-social-security/)

------
kumarm
This great. This is going to really bring out some interesting facts.

Looks like even Adult Entertainment businesses got money through Paycheck
Protection Program. Example:
[https://pppreport.org/company/11000+reeder+l+l+c](https://pppreport.org/company/11000+reeder+l+l+c)

~~~
jaywalk
They have had to completely shut down in many places. They are legal
businesses like any other, so why shouldn't they get PPP funds like any other
business?

~~~
phonon
They were initially ineligible.

[https://www.natlawreview.com/article/federal-courts-side-
str...](https://www.natlawreview.com/article/federal-courts-side-strip-clubs-
opposing-sba-s-ineligibility-rules-paycheck)

~~~
jaywalk
I remember that, and it was wrong to keep them out. The courts got it right.

