

Trying to set Linux up is making me feel like a noob - daniel-cussen

This sucks.  I've been trying to get the linux os set up for two whole days, and I've consulted about 60 websites on how to do it.  I might add that while I suck at using computers, most everyone else sucks more.  As far as I'm concerned, linux is completely inaccessible for most everybody because the frictional cost of changing from windows to linux is enormous.<p>I'm still trying to install it.  Wish me luck; it might take a few more days.
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iamelgringo
The learning curve on Linux if you're coming from a complete Windows
background is really steep. Also, each distribution has it's own pain points,
and advantages. Some ditro's I'd stay clear of until you're on your way to
being something of a Linux.

But, that's kind of the point of learning Linux. Feel like a noob because you
are a noob. But, after setting the system up, you will have learned tons about
how your computer works. Keep at it. You'll get it.

~~~
fauigerzigerk
It's not simply a matter of learning curves. I would say vi has a pretty steep
learning curve, but you get something out of it if you do learn it. Same for
using a Unix shell effectively. On the other hand, knowing about Linux driver
issues has no value in itself for any regular user.

Setting up Linux on a laptop is always a gamble. Sometimes it works flawlessly
and at other times it's a nightmare. I recently tried to make Ubuntu work on
one particular laptop. Installing it was no problem whatsoever, but the CPU
just wouldn't enter C3 power state, which meant that it ran extremely hot.

I tried to deactivate every single driver to find out which one kept the CPU
busy. I had to resolve all the driver interdependencies, recompile the kernel,
etc. But even on a completely stripped down OS the CPU just wouldn't enter C3.
None of the many tips and tricks on various Linux on laptops sites would work.

Could I have pursued this further? Sure, and at some point I would have found
a solution, but it wasn't worth my time frankly.

I think Linux on laptop/desktop can work if hardware vendors get behind it and
sort out all the driver issues. Everything else can be resolved by the Linux
community but drivers are unsuitable for the open source model as long as some
hardware vendors keep their specs secret.

------
noonespecial
Heh, I feel that pain. I tried to install Vista about a week ago after not
having run windows since 2001. I never did get it all working right, plus
thanks to (I think) not having some drivers right, my 2Ghz dual core with 3
gig ram was so slow it was unusable. I'm out of time for now but I'll try
agian later in a few weeks after I buy some "vista ready" gear.

------
christefano
Considering that the original post has almost nothing to do with Linux, the
helpfulness and positive attitudes in this thread amaze me.

I've been spending too much time at Slashdot.

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thingsilearned
Just install Ubuntu. Couldn't be easier.

~~~
hhm
I agree. I don't know what distro you are using, but you shouldn't have
problems installing Ubuntu.

~~~
daniel-cussen
I'm trying ubuntu. I checked the hash on the ISO I made on the disk, and it's
right, but I'm not sure what problem I'm having. First, I'm not sure I burned
the CD as an image. Second, I've been unable to partition my hard drive
because windows is in Spanish. Whenever I try to boot the computer after
telling the BIOS to prioritize the CD-ROM, it just opens Windows as if there
was nothing in there. When I give priority to the CD and nothing else, it says
there's a disk error and that I need to put the system disk in.

What's most likely the problem?

~~~
dazzawazza
If you can boot from other bootable CDs (for example a windows install CD)
then it looks like you haven't burnt the disc correctly. If you can't boot
from any bootable CDs then there is something wrong with your setup (on the
hardware/bios side)

~~~
hhm
Yes, it seems like your cd has some errors (maybe it wasn't burnt ok, maybe
the downloaded file is bad and you have to download it again). If you can't
start the cd, make another bootable cd or download the image again. (Remember
you have to create the image with the iso, not just create a cd with an iso
file inside of it.)

If you do that ok, you'll be able to boot from the cd. Once you get to boot
it, choose the option that lets you do a check on the entire cd, so you are
sure there aren't errors on it (so there are no broken packages, and that kind
of thing). Only after that, start the live cd, and then install from there.

------
damien
Another option, which is more noob-friendly is: <http://wubi-installer.org/>

It let's you install Linux from within Windows, as if you were just installing
another Windows program. The main downside to this is that your disk IO will
suffer since it installs Ubuntu inside of a Windows file (as a virtual disk).

Also, installing an OS is not for everyone. You can simply purchase a Dell, HP
or Lenovo with Linux pre-installed, and that gets rid of the "frictional cost"
of switching.

------
daniel-cussen
I feel like every person who writes a guide to installing ubuntu glosses over
at least a few critical details. I'm rather sick of this shit.

(I'm also trying to install rails on my mac. It's also ridiculous. You
download 2 gigs of stuff, follow every instruction to the letter, and then
your computer says

daniel-cussens-computer:~/src danielcussen$ mate .~/.bash_login -bash: mate:
command not found

and

Error 2740. An unknown token can't go after this identifier.

which basically translates to: Error: PWNAGE! L2P, noob.)

To some up, at least in my experience, the amount of BS a user has to go
through to get linux is rather enormous. I hope it's just the messed-up, non-
generic user settings on my computers, but the amount of crap I've had to do
makes Linux a complete impossibility for anyone who doesn't know what
hexadecimal code is. But I accept the bullshit, because I know it's a right of
passage, and it's worthwhile to know what a disk image, a disk ISO 9660 format
(or is it file system?), a BIOS, booting priority, repartitioning,
defragmenting, checking md5 hashes, and a virtual machine is. I'm going to
make it happen if it takes me all week. But from a user-friendliness point of
view, this is hell. I shouldn't have to know any of those things. I hope my
situation is rare, because if it's not, the linux community has some serious
problems.

~~~
tx
_I feel like every person who writes a guide to installing ubuntu glosses over
at least a few critical details. I'm rather sick of this shit._

I feel like people who write those tutorials assume a basic computer literacy
from their readers. I am not assaulting you, I am replying to an assault: you
have no idea how to burn a bootable CD. Period. You're not even ready to
install an OS, any kid of OS. So go get yourself a basic "Build your own PC"
kind of book, read it, and then try more advanced tasks such as installing
operating systems.

~~~
daniel-cussen
It's true. I'm not computer literate. I thought I was, but that is because I
underestimated what computer literacy meant. I thought that if I knew how to
change the BIOS, knew how to burn a disc, and could unzip files, I could
install Linux.

Another problem is that my situation is probably an outlier. My computer is in
Spanish, which makes it a lot harder to mess with. Plus, it runs on Windows XP
from 2002. On top of that, my disk drives are slightly messed up. They burn
correctly according to the MD5 hashes, but one of them might not read well.
Finally, none of the two computer-literate people I know are around, and
"build your own PC" books are hard to find, universally in Spanish, and
expensive (here in Santiago).

I'll keep trying until I find the stupid mistake I've been making all along.

And you're right. I'm being hostile; I've spent too much time over the
computer over the last few days, and I'm going a little crazy. But, much like
being drunk, driving oneself crazy does not excuse what you do/say when you're
kind of crazy. I apologize.

Edit: both CD drives work properly.

Edit: I followed the tutorial, and burned the CD. I'm going to reboot now
(both fingers crossed).

~~~
daniel-cussen
Edit: I did it! w00t! Turns out I had to choose i386 from the options at
Debian. Also, when the Debian booted, error EIP 00000060 c0100231 00000230
appeared. I looked this up, and I had to type LINUX ACPI=OFF during booting.
This didn't work either; I found out I had to change the onboard virtual
memory from 8mb to 1mb. It's not the linux people at all. The problem was that
the default onboard virtual memory of hp pavilions is too high. It took me
three days to find that out.

"The computer is personal again."

~~~
tx
Congrats!

------
euccastro
Well, if it's your first time installing it, you _are_ a newbie.

------
Hexstream
Would probably be easier to help if we knew what distro you're trying to
install...

------
paulgb
"linux is completely inaccessible for most everybody because the frictional
cost of changing from windows to linux is enormous."

Unfortunately there isn't a whole lot the Linux community can do about that.
The only reason Windows is so accessible to so many people is that it comes on
their computer. I doubt if most Windows users would be able to install the OS
from scratch.

I have to agree with you on some level though; Ubuntu is great and it has been
my primary OS for several years now, but I can't say I would recommend for a
non-geek to use it instead of Windows. It excites me, though, that with every
release I get closer and closer to being able to do that.

------
pivo
I find it easier to install Linux than Windows, but that's probably because
I'm more familiar with Linux. Anyway, unless you're using a geek linux distro,
you really shouldn't be having such a hard time. Ubuntu, Kubuntu, or (my
favorite) Fedora 8 should all be really easy to install.

Also, what exactly is the problem you're having? You'll get more help if you
have more specific problems.

------
daniel-cussen
Update (3 hours after posting): I'm trying again, this time with a new CD.
Thanks for the advice; I hope it works.

~~~
daniel-cussen
Now I'm getting a message that says

1\. HD System Type-(00) Missing operating system

Crap.

~~~
hhm
Daniel, your problem is the way you are burning the iso. You are burning it as
a file, while you have to burn it as a image file. Read this:
<http://www.petri.co.il/how_to_write_iso_files_to_cd.htm>

I think this'll put an end to your problems.

~~~
hhm
(I know you've been told this before, but that's why you get that message.
Your computer can't boot from the cd unless you burn it properly, and burning
the iso as a file won't work even if it seems reasonable.)

------
kajecounterhack
While we're on the topic of installing Ubuntu which is agreed to be the
easiest, may I recommend Ubuntu Ultimate

<http://ultimateedition.info/Ubuntu_Ultimate_1.6/>

Its just normal ubuntu but with different default packages installed, which
are actually really useful (go to the site and read about it), and all
repositories enabled.

Some people really don't like this because they say its annoying but most
people really end up downloading all these packages anyway...might as well
save the hassle. Not to mention it comes with an interesting default theme.

------
goofygrin
I've been using linux off and on since 1995-1996 (gosh, has it been that
long?).

It's only been in the last couple years that I feel confortable enough to use
it day to day as a primary OS (actually put it on my wife's laptop and she's
fine with it surprisingly enough).

So all the seat time you've got with Windows? You don't have that with Linux
and you're going to have problems.

Anyone that says the switch is painless blah blah is high on the rock.

Y creo que hay algo que no esta configurado correctamente en su BIOS (para
boot desde el DVD). Tambien es posible que el disco no fue quemado (burned)
correctamente....

------
himanshu
The true learning experience comes from learning how to install linux even it
means initially struggling but eventually figuring it out.

------
kashif
Download the Alternate CD of Ubuntu and use that, it should work in your
case..

~~~
corentin
Plus, the alternate CD allows you to enable on-the-fly disk encryption, which
IMHO is a must-have on a laptop.

------
lyime
there is nothing wrong in being a noob. But hey you are learning the right
way;)

------
herdrick
So, you are trying to do Linux on the desktop? Why?

Linux for your server, Mac or Windows on your desktop.

~~~
hhm
Why? Plenty of people uses Linux on the desktop, I myself have been running it
on the desktop for some years now.

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DarrenStuart
try virtualization something like vmplayer should do it.

