

My Wild Journey into the United States, and a Few Tips for Future Canadian YC’ers - parker
http://www.socialbias.com/my-wild-journey-into-the-united-states-and-a-few-tips-for-future-canadian-ycers/

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gruseom
A few years ago I went to work in the Valley on a TN visa. You couldn't get
that visa as a programmer (though programmers were what the US needed).
Programmers, in fact, were explicitly _off_ the list, and if you said you were
going to write code it was cause for immediate rejection. Your job had to be
"systems analyst". That was on the list. So I got a job offer as a "systems
analyst".

I have a math degree not CS, and was expecting that to be a bit of an issue.
It did indeed come up. The INS officer looked at me in that suspicious way
that minor security officials have and asked, very slowly: "How does your
degree in mathematics qualify you to be a systems analyst?"

I replied, very slowly, "The company wants me to use my mathematical
background to analyse their system."

His response: "OK". That was the end of the interview.

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abstractbill
US immigration policy is awful. I spent four years in a dead-end cube-land job
waiting for my Green Card before I could join a startup.

I agree with the hints at the end of the post. I would add that having a PhD
did help me a couple of times, so if you have one, make sure people know about
it.

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delano
The only two countries that I've had difficulty entering on business trips are
the US and the UK. In my experience they appear to be concerned more with
people having recourse to public funds and jobs rather than terrorism.

There's something particularly arbitrary about the process at the US border
though. I've traveled to the US for meetings from Vancouver, Toronto, and
Montreal and I've been refused entry twice -- both in Vancouver (which is also
my home town). The reasons weren't entirely clear but at least one of the
times they had simply left me sitting until there were no more flights. The
other time there was an exceptionally high number of people detained so it's
possible they were concerned with something else altogether.

re: the beard. Young beards are probably interpreted as an indication more of
slovenliness than extremist sympathies. It's part of the mandate at the US and
UK borders to weed out the cunning, young beards in seek of a fresh, clean-
shaven start.

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delackner
Honestly, the beard thing has nothing to do with religion. Immigration
officials, like all minimum wage dictators (and most people generally,
unfortunately) still often have the mistaken impression that suit and tie =
money, bearded and scruffy = poor. It is a whole other question why some of
the worst paid people feel such a need to look down on others.

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pg
One thing that may help is not to call YC a "program." We stopped calling it
that a long time ago, because it gives people the wrong impression.

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LogicHoleFlaw
What is the preferred term then?

~~~
pg
Depends on the context. The most common is to talk about the summer or winter
funding cycle.

What I'd tell an immigration official is that I was going to work with some
investors who had agreed to invest in my startup. I am not an expert in what
to tell immigration officials, though.

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hugh
He's not kidding about the beard thing. When I was 22 I went on a six-week
round-the-world trip without packing a razor. By the end I had a terrible
unkempt beard, and was getting "randomly" selected for extra searches at every
airport.

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nraynaud
That's funny, I have such a photo on my passport (I didn't care my beard as a
student), I can't imagine the scrutiny I would receive at such an anti-Islamic
border.

As a side note, I had no extra problem at Buenos Aires even if I made a major
custom mistake (I got back into the international area after having received
the entrance stamp), they understood I was lost. The Argentina capital was
victim of 2 big bomb attack by some Islamic extremists (29 and 85 dead) but
seems to not have instated hate and arbitrary humiliations as a security
policy since.

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gunderson
As an American citizen, I would like to say how embarrassed I am that our
border security put you through that process.

I think anyone who wants to ought to be allowed to enter the US to work.

~~~
ovi256
Tell that to the guys that are competing with Mexicans for jobs. I'm not
saying they are right, just that I can see how high ideals like freedom of
movement fly out the window the moment your job is threatened.

~~~
gunderson
I'm also embarrassed about those people. We live in a global economy, why
should I have to pay extra to someone who thinks that his/her citizenship
entitles him/her to an above-market wage when there is a hard working person
willing to do the work for less?

It is disgraceful that hardworking people all over the world starve while here
in the US people feel entitled to complain about their jobs being "taken".

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nraynaud
Maybe the smartest thing to do is avoiding United States altogether,
collaborating with this kind of dumb rules is only reinforcing this kind of
behavior since people keep trying to get in even when bothered.

You voted with your wallet, you can now vote with your passport. Moreover,
some decentralization and diversity in economy can only bring benefits to the
world, monoculture is toxic in the long run.

~~~
SwellJoe
_Moreover, some decentralization and diversity in economy can only bring
benefits to the world, monoculture is toxic in the long run._

While this is true, it'll be years (probably decades) before starting
technology startups anywhere else in the world is as likely to succeed as it
is in the US (particularly Silicon Valley, but Boston will do, in a pinch, I
guess). You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. But, hopefully, some
of the Brits and Canadians and Indians, etc. who come to the states to build
their startups will strike it rich, and go back home and help develop a
startup friendly culture. It'll still be decades before any place is as big as
the valley, but it'll be a start.

~~~
nraynaud
The more people move to Silicon Valley to start their venture, the more time
will pass before its easier to do so in their hometown. Moreover, maybe the
Silicon Valley way of thing is not the only way to bring innovation, maybe
Nigerian people have another economical system to do this, maybe there can be
a Spanish way of doing thing things, a Brazilian way etc. I'm sure that the
best way to do things the Silicon Valley's way is moving there, but where's
the innovation apart from the product ?

But I have a Silicon Valley tale : Steve Jobs, if he distorts reality and
makes his twisted ideas of reality become the real reality, it's not by
conforming to established things. He creates his battleground, convoke his
enemies on it and then fight. There's some "second order" risk to take : not
only you risk to fail in your venture, but you can take a higher risk by
failing in the way you start your venture. Going to a rural area, taking money
from other people than VCs, and doing something that's neither electronics nor
a web 2.0 website (nor a traditional business, of course). And with this
additional risk, comes a reward.

~~~
SwellJoe
_The more people move to Silicon Valley to start their venture, the more time
will pass before its easier to do so in their hometown._

You're placing the value of hope that the future will be better in your
hometown over the value of the fact that things are better _right now_ in
Silicon Valley. You and I both hope that, in the future, an entrepreneur-
friendly culture will grow in many places. But, I'm accepting the reality that
for my current business to succeed today, I need to take part in that culture
today.

If you're willing to forego success today in exchange for helping other people
in your hometown have success in the future (distant, but questionably made
nearer for your willingness to stay home), then we're talking about different
questions. Of course, I happen to believe you have to have some success under
your belt in order to make a real impact on your hometown's startup culture.
Random dudes who are passionate about startups is far less effective than
random dudes _with millions of dollars and a proven track record of building
one or more companies_ who are passionate about startups.

And then we're back to the question of, "How do I best insure my business is a
success?" If it's a technology startup the answer is often, though not always,
"build it in Silicon Valley".

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nraynaud
That's true, actually I'm more a global thinker than a individual thinker.
That's why even if I fail, I should first do no harm and have at least led
others to the right direction (in my case, health and ecology).

And this kind of thinking doesn't makes me try to succeed whatever the price.
Or in this case, I can even pass over opportunities that would make my
personal success more likely but my global influence less positive. I can say
"I will strike rich AND THEN have a positive impact" but the odds are 5 on 1
against me to strike rich so I have to be positive for others even if I
personally don't strike rich.

PS: I hate the "this link is expired stuff".

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SwellJoe
While I'm rarely accused of humility, I'm afraid that in this case I am too
humble to imagine that by staying in Austin (or Houston, or Greenville, SC, or
any other place I've lived) that I could have turned their economy and culture
into one that is more friendly to entrepreneurs given my existing resources.

It sounds as though you are not hindered by any such weakness. Best of luck to
you.

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konsl
Under a B-1 visa, you're not allowed to work for a US company or receive any
money while you're in the US. Since YC is a program that clearly intends to
fund a US company of yours, it's no surprise that you were put under
additional scrutiny. The border officials were just doing their job.

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parker
Their 'additional scrutiny' concluded that I was a student even though I had
massive amounts of documentation pointing to the exact opposite conclusion. It
is their job to investigate extra-ordinary situations. Suggesting that I
needed a student visa was just plain wrong.

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nanijoe
How about just saying you are going for a business meeting? The Canadian
officials seem to find that satisfactory every time I go there, so I don't see
why it won't work in the reverse direction.

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dmix
Thanks for the article, I figured it would be to difficult to get into
y-cominator as a Canadian. It's a shame I didn't think this through earlier.

~~~
parker
I wouldn't worry too much about it -- most every foreign-national other than
me has had no problems getting in for the program. I think I just ran into a
couple bad border officials. Perhaps I was even over-transparent the first
time. By having so much documentation prepared, maybe I made myself look
suspicious.

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ojbyrne
Trust me, you're wrong about "bad border officials." And having been in that
room (at a different airport) 3 times, you also downplay the unpleasantness of
it. I'm curious if you went through the fingerprint/mugshot process - can't
remember if they bring that out on the first refusal or not.

Anyway everytime you get refused they seem to amp up the harassment. I'm
reasonably sure if I tried to reapply, they'd be doing body-cavity searches.

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parker
You are 100% right about the unpleasantness of the entire ordeal. They did do
the fingerprint, mugshot deal... but until I realized that he was going to
refuse entry, I was being optimistic for some reason.

I did go easy on them in this article... perhaps as a reflection of my own
paranoia about getting back in when I need to... I had mental images of 5 idle
border officials googling my name as I sat in the waiting room.

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ojbyrne
Yeah, I should shut up too ;-)

