
What happens to all the old wind turbines? - Kaibeezy
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51325101
======
Invictus0
Why is it that the turbines can be turned into a bridge and a playground but
can't continue to be used? What is the failure mode for these things?

~~~
Retric
Spinning turbine blades are under significant mechanical stress. Individual
blades are getting as tall as a 30 story buildings, but they rotate so you
need to support all that weight from one end. Further, the tips are spinning
at 100+MPH constantly so dust in the air is eroding the surface.

On top of this weight savings are a major goal so their designed to just
barely work for a given lifespan. So, blades that where pulled from a working
turbine are still really strong, they are simply more likely to fail at some
unknown point in the future.

PS: Turbines from 20+ years ago are much smaller, but faced similar issues.
For scale compare the turbine blade with cars in this shot and think this
thing is rotating: [https://www.technology.org/2018/03/23/here-is-the-worlds-
lar...](https://www.technology.org/2018/03/23/here-is-the-worlds-largest-wind-
turbine-blade/)

~~~
gambiting
Are there any recorded instances of this happening? A turbine falling apart
when taken past its design lifetime?

~~~
Animats
About 3,800 wind turbine blades fail per year, according to an insurer.[1]
About 0.5% per year. A detailed analysis of blade failure modes: [2] There's
an industry devoted to blade repair.[3] What they do looks a lot like body
work for carbon-fiber aircraft, except that it's done in midair.

Transmissions and bearings are more of a problem. "Turbine gearboxes are
typically given a design life of 20 years, but few make it past the 10-year
mark."[4]

[1] [https://www.enr.com/articles/42352-are-four-wind-turbine-
fai...](https://www.enr.com/articles/42352-are-four-wind-turbine-failures-in-
five-weeks-too-many-for-nextera-energy) [2]
[https://backend.orbit.dtu.dk/ws/portalfiles/portal/118222161...](https://backend.orbit.dtu.dk/ws/portalfiles/portal/118222161/Database_about_blade_faults.pdf)
[3] [http://fairwindres.com/wind-industry-maintenance/blade-
repai...](http://fairwindres.com/wind-industry-maintenance/blade-repair/) [4]
[https://www.windpowerengineering.com/wind-turbine-
gearboxes-...](https://www.windpowerengineering.com/wind-turbine-gearboxes-
fail-hit-20-year-mark/)

~~~
jacquesm
> Turbine gearboxes are typically given a design life of 20 years, but few
> make it past the 10-year mark.

That's why the biggest and best are direct drive.

------
gandalfian
Sailing yachts too. Millions of affordable fiberglass yachts made since the
70's are now reaching the end of their lives. In the past abandoned wooden
boats just rotted away. But the fiberglass hulks stick around. It's a coming
problem.

~~~
HenryKissinger
Nothing escapes entropy, but if you multiply the rate at which everything
naturally decays with the sheer volume of things that exist and will one day
need to be replaced, we're going to bankrupt the planet of its resources.

I wish more things were made to last. Imagine working in a 5000 year old
skyscraper that's as good as the day it opened, or driving a 500 year old car
that's as reliable as the day you purchased it.

Humanity's going to last a long, long time. Hopefully.

At least resources like wood and water are renewable. But oil and metal
aren't. When we run out of oil, we can kiss plastics and cosmetics goodbye. As
for metals, recycling scrap metal and asteroid mining are our only long term
options.

~~~
Joe-Z
>Imagine working in a 5000 year old skyscraper...

Living in Europe and having ample opportunity to visit them, I'm always
fascinated by the old cathedrals that just stand around in our city centers. I
almost can't believe how people hundreds of years ago managed to erect these
structures. And not only that but the level of detail and craftmanship that
went into all of its components is mind-boggling. To me it also signifies a
connection to previous generations which you don't often get anywhere else. Of
course they are not nearly 5.000 years old, but it just sprang to my mind when
I read this line.

~~~
vl
Rome is even more impressive - 2000 years old buildings. Pantheon is just
huge!

~~~
bradknowles
And the Pantheon still has the world’s largest cupola inside. We still don’t
understand how to build them that big, despite 2000+ years of studying that
sucker.

~~~
evgen
We know exactly how to build them that big, but choose not to because we have
better materials and better techniques. That cupola was created because the
builders were too ignorant to figure out a better way to enclose the space,
with modern steel it is trivial to create a building that encloses the
entirety of the Parthenon.

------
squarefoot
If I recall correctly, fiberglass is a pretty decent heat insulator. Wouldn't
be possible to cut those blades into tiles, then reshape them to be perfectly
flat and use them as heat insulation panels in non critical industrial
applications?

~~~
stcredzero
_If I recall correctly, fiberglass is a pretty decent heat insulator. Wouldn
't be possible to cut those blades into tiles_

The physics of insulators, like fiberglass batting. Basically, it works the
same way as down feathers or fur. The material traps air into many, many
somewhat separate pockets. This interrupts convective flows, which drastically
slows down the rate at which heat can move through air. Since air is the
opposite of dense, not much heat can be transmitted through air which does not
move.

Fiberglass tiles aren't going to have the same insulating property, just
because they're also fiberglass.

~~~
c0restraint
What about crushing them and then kind of shredding it into a mulch to create
the pockets?

------
LastZactionHero
> It stretches a hundred metres from a bend in the North Platte River in
> Casper, Wyoming.

100m? For real?

> Burying them doesn't sound very green.

Why do I care if something doesn't _sounds_ green? Tell me an actual
consequence.

------
melling
We discussed this 3 days ago here too. Might have other insights:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22248351](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22248351)

------
dsfyu404ed
This is a non-issue. When we have enough of them for them to be readily
available in large quantities we will find uses for them. Being slow to
degrade when exposed to the elements makes them (or strips/panels cut out of
them) suitable for all sorts of construction uses.

~~~
skybrian
I wonder if they could be used to build a fence. Or maybe a wall?

~~~
dsfyu404ed
I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted but I think cross sectional cuts of
turbine blade filled with dirt or concrete (as budget allows) would make for
great retaining walls or erosion barriers.

------
trogsworth
Low Tech Magazine did a piece on this back in June:
[https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2019/06/wooden-wind-
turbines...](https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2019/06/wooden-wind-
turbines.html)

------
dodobirdlord
Fiberglass is pretty inert, right? It's also used for boat hulls. I wonder if
turbine blades could be cut up and used for artificial reef construction the
way decommissioned ships sometimes are. But perhaps the blades are lighter
than water.

~~~
killjoywashere
As a diver, I have to say, artificial reef isn’t quite what you think. We dive
wrecks all the time that are 60-130’ down and have been there for 70-100 years
and barely have any coral, certainly not like the massive walls of coral
elsewhere in the same islands.

Some of it has to do with the depth: most life is in the 0-40’ zone. And the
oxygen drops off quite a bit, which inhibits oxidation (rust). There’s another
wreck we dive at 40’ that’s barely recognizable due to corrosion and life.
There’s an area that has coke bottles from 1945 (the glass is date-stamped)
and they barely have anything growing on them.

If you dump fiberglass in shallow water, people are going to be pissed. If you
dump fiberglass in deep water, it will likely not decompose for millennia. But
it also won’t be a Mecca for perch and sharks like some make them out to be.

------
8bitsrule
We do need to find solutions for blade-waste. Ideally it would find its way
into new blades.

On other hand, how does blade-waste compare to energy- and non-energy- waste
sources? Until that solution arrives:

" municipal and commercial dumps will take most of the waste, which the
American Wind Energy Association in Washington says is safest and cheapest.
'Wind turbine blades at the end of their operational life are landfill-
safe...' [The group] pointed to an Electric Power Research Institute study
that estimates all blade waste through 2050 would equal roughly .015% of all
the municipal solid waste going to landfills in 2015 alone."[0]

[0][https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-02-05/wind-
turb...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-02-05/wind-turbine-
blades-can-t-be-recycled-so-they-re-piling-up-in-landfills)

~~~
jefftk
_> We do need to find solutions for blade-waste._

Why? We're in no danger of running out of space, and they're not toxic.

~~~
ajross
Yeah, I mean, all other things being equal it's better to find efficiencies
where possible and not just throw things away needlessly. Folks like to laugh
at it, but plastics manufacturing for one-use items like bags and straws has
real externalities that aren't borne by the cost of manufacture.

But in this particular situation: a quarter-century-old turbine blade has paid
for itself _so many times over_ already that this is just not where we need to
be spending out time worrying about efficiencies. Even if we just bury the
things, wind power remains (by far!) the most environmentally beneficial
choice for almost all electrical markets.

~~~
barney54
Why do you prefer wind to solar?

~~~
ajross
It's cheaper and faster to build out, lasts longer once installed, is usually
easier to find sites for, and can be built with almost completely local
manufacturing and labor. There's nothing wrong with solar, but wind is better
from a "where should the subsidy dollars be spent" perspective.

~~~
eru
Even better: don't spend any subsidy dollars at all. Use a carbon tax to turn
climate policy into a money spinner instead of a money sink, and let the
market figure out how to generate power.

(In political practice, it seems easier to throw around subsidy dollars,
alas.)

------
agumonkey
Maybe give them to association for upcycling or non industrial dismantling ?

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IshKebab
Is burying them an issue?

