
Scientists find 'friendliness' genes that distinguish dogs from wolves - startupflix
http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-dog-friendliness-genes-20170719-story.html
======
mbfg
Udell said that these results agreed with previous studies that have shown
that dogs are not as good at independent problem-solving as wolves, and that
they get more distracted by social stimulation.

I'm not sure that's true. I think dogs have fantastic problem solving skills.
The solutions, however, are typically to use the human to solve their
problems.

~~~
labster
Yes, I've observed this behavior as well. If they come across a problem they
know they can't solve (i.e. rat in a tree), they come ask you if you have any
ideas.

This isn't limited to domestic animals, though. Ravens, upon finding a corpse
of an large animal that they can't break the hide to get to the delicious
meat, will make a racket to _attract predators_. Hearing the noise a wolf,
coyote, bear, or bobcat comes along opens the dead animal, has a nice meal,
and the ravens get the leftovers. That's ravens for you, using their own
predators as tools.

~~~
fapjacks
Corvidae are smart as hell. I think they're one of the most clever animals
around. I'm not sure when or why I started, but I have fed (American) crows
for years wherever I live. At my current place, I have been feeding a
particular crow (and his mother) as long as he's been alive. I specifically
remember his mother setting up shop in the palm tree across the street when
she had this particular crow. Anyway, he follows me when I leave the house.
This crow literally follows me to the grocery store, or when I go for my run,
or to the convenience store. His mother doesn't, though. I have tried to take
him in by leaving my lanai door open, but that is just one barrier the crows
around here never seem to overcome. I've let other crows into my house before,
but the crows in this neighborhood clearly think it is a deadly proposition. I
don't know how weird any of this is, but it's just something I've always done.

~~~
xaedes
What kind of food do they like? I also want to do that. I look at and whistle
with the birds in my town for quite a while, but I am not sure what would be
good food to carry around for them.

~~~
fapjacks
Crows go apeshit for plain peanuts and granola bars that I've kinda crushed up
or broken into pieces which seem reasonably-sized for them to eat. Usually
that means I break a peanut of "average" size into four pieces. Once along
that natural split, and then each piece once more. Other birds really like
that stuff, too, and whatever the crows don't eat, the smaller ones do.
There's always nothing left, perhaps obviously.

------
dluan
This project was just funded on Experiment.

[https://experiment.com/projects/what-genes-make-domestic-
dog...](https://experiment.com/projects/what-genes-make-domestic-dogs-
friendlier-than-wolves)

------
pmontra
I'm not sure it's about the same discovery because it's from 2017 but this is
an article that we can read from Europe
[http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/07/what-makes-dogs-so-
fr...](http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/07/what-makes-dogs-so-friendly-
study-finds-genetic-link-super-outgoing-people)

Remember that LAT is blocking Europe because of GDPR.

------
hyperpallium
I like the _neoteny_ view of dogs: as wolves retaining juvenile (puppy-like)
characteristics into adulthood (reproductive maturity).

But the genetic link found here need not be at odds, for it could be the
genetic basis of neoteny, and explain other characteristics, like those found
in the Siberian fox domestication experiment (see other comments), and other
domesticated animals.

It may also be that _homo homo sapiens_ has also been domesticated by this
same genetic mechanism... although an extreme mutation results in Williams-
Beuren syndrome, a milder mutation may be prevalent, compared with, say apes,
neanderthals, or other hominids (though, sufficient DNA for comparative
analysis is unlikely).

------
smoll
I just visited Bali and encountered the Bali Street Dog for the first time,
which is apparently a semi-feral breed that basically doesn’t care about
humans at all [http://bawabali.com/bali-heritage-
dog/2585-2/](http://bawabali.com/bali-heritage-dog/2585-2/)

I wonder if they lost the genes that the study identified as causing hyper-
sociability, or if they still have it but the phenotype is suppressed for
various reasons (e.g. environmental)

~~~
reustle
I spent a few years in SE Asia and saw some abuse of stray street dogs in the
city. Then I realized why the dogs were so calm/shy around humans.

------
SomeT
Could this happen to humans with AI domesticating them? lol

------
cangencer
"Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European
countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options
that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue
to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with
our award-winning journalism."

~~~
milkmiruku
* [http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:wVIlaJB...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:wVIlaJBHj1MJ:www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-dog-friendliness-genes-20170719-story.html&num=1&hl=en&gl=uk&strip=1&vwsrc=0#f0dWSsH62HSSSq)

* [http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/3/7/e1700398](http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/3/7/e1700398) \- Structural variants in genes associated with human Williams-Beuren syndrome underlie stereotypical hypersociability in domestic dogs

2017

------
Andre_Wanglin
Dmitri Belyayev's decades-long study on silver foxes produced animals that
began to distinguish markedly different morphological features (bushy tails,
floppy ears, spotted coats) and physiology (lower adrenaline and stress
hormone levels, smaller skulls, longer breeding seasons, larger litter sizes)
by selecting strictly for tameness, which they defined simply as aggression
toward humans.[0] Belyayev was forced to live in Siberia to carry out this
work as Mendelian geneticists and biologists were officially condemned
(denounced as "fascist" and many were executed) by the Soviet state as it
supported Lysenkoism, a Lamarckian psuedo-scientific theory that minimized the
role of genes on behavior, which allied well with Soviet and Marxist ideology.

[0]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitry_Belyayev_(zoologist)#Be...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitry_Belyayev_\(zoologist\)#Belyayev's_fox_experiment)

~~~
tlb
I'm skeptical of this research. What if the breeder's subjective evaluation of
tameness was influenced by bushy tails and floppy ears, as most people's would
be? You'd end up breeding both traits in, without the same genes being
involved.

~~~
gwern
[http://www.terrierman.com/russianfoxfarmstudy.pdf](http://www.terrierman.com/russianfoxfarmstudy.pdf)

"At seven or eight months, when the foxes reach sexual maturity, they are
scored for tameness and assigned to one of three classes. The least
domesticated foxes, those that flee from experimenters or bite when stroked or
handled, are assigned to Class III. (Even Class III foxes are tamer than the
calmest farm-bred foxes. Among other things, they allow themselves to be hand
fed.) Foxes in Class II let themselves be petted and handled but show no
emotionally friendly response to experimenters. Foxes in Class I are friendly
toward experimenters, wagging their tails and whining. In the sixth generation
bred for tameness we had to add an even higher-scoring category. Members of
Class IE, the “domesticated elite,” are eager to establish human contact,
whimpering to attract attention and sniffing and licking experimenters like
dogs."

Pretty hard and fast criteria. Hard to let a slightly bushier tail affect your
evaluation of whether a fox just snapped at you.

~~~
tlb
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mismeasure_of_Man](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mismeasure_of_Man)
describes research that also had hard and fast criteria, yet thumbs somehow
ended up on scales anyway. The criteria you quote are a little fuzzy around
the edges. "Eager to establish human contact" might well be correlated with
fox cuteness.

~~~
gwern
_The Mismeasure of Man_ is biased garbage written by someone with an axe to
grind who attacked strawmen and may well have made up some of his findings of
'bias' and more importantly, has completely failed to predict subsequent
decades of psychological, psychiatric, and genetics results: IQ is stronger
and more vindicated than ever and a major driver of molecular genetics &
neuroimaging research. Try again.

------
jrs95
Awesome! Now, could we please find a way to give this gene to people? I feel
like we could really use it.

~~~
snackbugs
Dogs were bred with this friendliness to be willing laborers with their own
safety being a secondary concern to doing a job given to them. Think of how
quickly and eagerly this would be used by those who want exploitable labor
from humans.

~~~
tcbawo
In a few generations' time, we might have capable enough robots.

~~~
Andre_Wanglin
And self-replicating robots at that! They will just require food, water, and
shelter as inputs.

~~~
tejtm
“The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced
by unskilled labor.” Wernher von Braun

