
NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand - jorkro
http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/344742-nsa-unlawfully-surveiled-kim-dotcom-in-new-zealand
======
jonknee
The only mention of NSA seems to come from Kim... His logic appears to be that
as a Five Eyes member the NSA and GCSB have some shared resources and that
means the NSA used those resources to spy on him. That might be true, but he
has no evidence that the NSA cares one bit about him. I seriously doubt the
NSA was tasked with working a non-terrorism related piracy case, but that's
me.

[http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?objectid=11897719](http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?objectid=11897719)

> Dotcom, who should have been protected from GCSB surveillance as a New
> Zealand resident, said the GCSB did not know because its equipment was being
> used by the NSA, which was "directly involved".

> The GCSB documents do contain an admission of NSA involvement, although it
> was not made outright. In response to the accusation the GCSB had accessed
> NSA networks, the bureau refused to answer on national security grounds and
> acknowledged that under High Court rules that doing so would be seen by the
> court as an admission it had.

> Dotcom said the details showed some other party was using GCSB systems and
> he believed it would be the NSA."The US government has requested my
> extradition. The NSA is clearly the most interested party."

> "The NSA has unrestricted access to GCSB surveillance systems. In fact most
> of the technology the GCSB uses was supplied by the NSA."

~~~
moomin
Worth pointing out at this point that Kim is a heavily-documented liar.

If he told me the sky was blue, I'd go outside to check.

~~~
peter422
Don't worry, he has been meticulously collecting evidence and can prove
everything! Unfortunately he can't post it just yet, but he'll definitely post
it soon! Maybe next week! Or next month! But it's gonna be huge!!!

~~~
ceejayoz
(Right after he gives Hannity his other scoop:
[https://twitter.com/seanhannity/status/866016183815942144](https://twitter.com/seanhannity/status/866016183815942144))

------
1024core
Since when did the NSA become the copyright industry's police? There were no
security implications of Kim's operation; why was he targeted by the NSA?

~~~
marcoperaza
The US intelligence apparatus exists to protect the interests of the citizens
of the United States. A foreigner who violates millions of dollars of
intellectual property belonging to American citizens and companies is a threat
to our interests, and also of the interests of the nearly 200 nations that
participate in the global copyright regime, whose copyrights he was also
violating. Foreigners on foreign soil have no rights as far as US law is
concerned.

~~~
adrianratnapala
You are right, or something resembling right, as regards Kim Dotcom in
relation to the US.

But there is still something troubling here for Americans, because it means
that there is an existing mechanism (and/or set of social relations) in place
by which American copyright interests can turn the intelligence agencies into
their servants. Once such machinery exists, it is at least as dangerous to
Americans as it is to foreigners.

~~~
slg
I am not usually in the "if you have nothing to hide..." crowd, but this isn't
some kid in Minnesota who downloaded a Metallica album. This is someone who
created a business enterprise to circumvent US law. This is someone who pulled
in tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars from this business. For a time
this business was the single biggest source of pirated content in the world.
All of this was done basically in the open. If this guy was an American
citizen I doubt there would have been any resistance to getting warrants for
this information. The slope would have to be very slippery for it to get to
the level that the average American citizen would be the target of this type
of investigation.

~~~
__jal
So what happens when a US citizen starts publishing stuff China (or Russia, or
the UAE, or England, or any other state that doesn't protect free speech as we
do) doesn't like?

What happens in 40 years, when the US is on much less-firm footing as de facto
World Cop?

~~~
marcoperaza
Never forget Thucydides' wisdom from 2500 years ago, as true today as then and
as in 2500 more years:

 _" Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power,
while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must."_

Tying our hands today will do nothing to help us when we are the weak and
someone else is the strong.

~~~
barrkel
Of course, acting with moral authority extends the lifespan of leaders,
because such leaders get more support than the nakedly self-interested. And
thus tying your hands today does in fact put off the day when you're weak.

------
will_brown
As long as the US wastes tax payer dollars doing investigations and
enforcement of Hollywood copyrights, I'd like to see them pay some dumb as
agent to do a comparison of the total number of copyright violations on
YouTube vs the total number of copyright violations on Mega servers.

For fun they could do a comparison of the number of copyright complaints both
YouTube and Mega received and the number of those complaints they have acted
on. Maybe for extra bonus we can also compare the number of counterfeit
products on Amazon (violating copyright or trademark).

~~~
freshhawk
But is it a waste? The export of American values through their media is an
incredibly powerful tool. Ignoring their goals and values, which I disagree
with, the tactics and strategy make complete logical sense.

There is a reason that military agencies get to edit scripts before they allow
the use of their resources in movies and it's not because they're stupid
people.

~~~
will_brown
>The export of American values through their media is an incredibly powerful
tool.

If American made media is such a powerful tool you think American tax payer
dollars would go to something like Mega maximizing distribution of American
values through this media, rather than spending (tax payer) money to limit the
distribution of said American values.

~~~
freshhawk
True, if America had the same propaganda goals but a much more socialist
attitude. As it is, one of those values is that the people who own this media
should be incredibly rich. And those rich people should have more of a say
over what is allowed, and they love copyright - the longer the term and the
more violent the enforcement the better.

------
toyg
I'm not shocked in the slightest - spying is likely the most harmless of
actions performed by US and NZ against Dotcom.

It's still much more shocking to me how NZ authorities de-facto renounced
their sovereignty, by letting US agents free to walk all over their laws when
they raided him. They did that with glee, with the happiness of a servant who
knows he's making a great job for his master and rewards will ensue. It made a
mockery of the NZ justice system, all involved police chiefs and politicians
should have been thrown in jail for treason.

------
gozur88
Unlawful in New Zealand. I'd be surprised if what they did wasn't legal under
US law.

~~~
koolba
Short of political assassination, is _anything_ done by the US government
outside the US illegal under US law?

~~~
syshum
It should be, the US Constitution should apply to government actions ANYWHERE
not just actions on US Soil, the US Constitution was never designed to be
geographically limited, it was designed to limit what the government was
allowed to do, period, in all cases in all lands, everywhere

Sadly the US Court Systems has stated it does not have the authority to apply
the Constitution to the US Government when the US Government is acting outside
US Soil, it is a ridiculous standard but....

~~~
gozur88
>It should be, the US Constitution should apply to government actions ANYWHERE
not just actions on US Soil, the US Constitution was never designed to be
geographically limited, it was designed to limit what the government was
allowed to do, period, in all cases in all lands, everywhere

No. There's no support for this view in constitutional law.

~~~
syshum
How so, the entire purpose of the Constitution is to be a limiting document on
what the States and we the people have authorized the government to do on our
behalf, not just do on our behalf with in the Geographical regions commonly
known as the United States

------
aptidude187
Can someone state in a nutshell why this guy keeps getting bullied by the
government?

~~~
Fifer82
Piracy. MegaUpload was a huge warez distributor around the same time as
RapidShare. File Hosters over HTTP

~~~
aptidude187
So why are rapidgator and uploaded or any other upload services getting off
the hook

~~~
cavanasm
I'm not sure they are, they're just not nearly as public. Kim Dotcom is / was
notoriously boastful about his actions, and all the money he made off those
actions. I've never heard similar things about the founders of any other file
hosting service founder/owner that is well known for piracy. Makes him an
incredibly appealing target I think.

~~~
toyg
Same as PirateBay, which made its name when they publicly replied to copyright
enforcement letters with insults. Refusing to be humbled by established
authorities is the real crime, because it corrodes their legitimacy and hence
their whole existence.

It's a bit like being homosexual in countries with harsh state-religions but
tolerant attitudes: keep it quiet and nobody will bother you, but if you
flaunt it then the law will crack down on you, because you're attacking the
basis of the whole legal edifice.

~~~
nerpderp83
Don't make fun of the state.

------
darawk
Oh look, the NSA using its extraordinary capabilities solely to ensure the
military security of the United States. Kim Dotcom surely represented a
strategic threat to our interests. /s

------
I_am_tiberius
Was Kim dotcom considered a national security risk because of Megaupload or
because of other things he did / or planned?

------
philip1209
Putting aside the target of the surveillance -

Yes, the NSA is a spy agency. It's their job to spy outside the country. And
of course the spying is illegal outside of the country - no country endorses
being spied on by foreign governments.

~~~
dgfgfdagasdfgfa
> And of course the spying is illegal outside of the country - no country
> endorses being spied on by foreign governments.

Isn't this _exactly_ what the Five Eyes surveillance agreement is? It
certainly seems extremely relevant and may also explain why the NSA's
surveillance here was possible.

~~~
zciwon
It's illegal for these countries to spy on their own citizens so they get
their friends to do it instead.

------
mtgx
And now waiting for the other shoe to drop: FBI doing parallel construction
with evidence obtained through that illegal NSA surveillance.

~~~
jonknee
Except for the part he's not an American so it wouldn't be illegal for the NSA
to snoop his emails and no parallel construction is needed to know that Kim
Dotcom ran a massive pirate site. He boasted about it and his wealth from it
openly!

Kim's great at getting press and that's about all there is to see here.

------
yuhong
Thinking about it, Watergate came after we left the gold standard. The more
money being spent on the NSA, the more government debt increase and benefit
contractors like Snowden.

