

Download Windows 8.1 RTM, Visual Studio 2013 RC Today - tshtf
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/stevengu/archive/2013/09/09/download-windows-8-1-rtm-visual-studio-2013-rc-and-windows-server-2012-r2-rtm-today.aspx

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marshray
I'm really glad we're getting developers what they need, and I'm sorry it
seems to have taken some flaming press to get it.

I work in the Azure/AD group and we are dependent on the Windows preview
releases too. If the community knew just how fast the Windows team was
iterating on this new release cycle, I think they might be a lot more
sympathetic to this situation.

And I just downloaded VS 2013 Beta last Friday. At least I haven't have a
chance to install it yet. :-)

~~~
harrytuttle
The problem is that devdiv have been doing this for a few years so some of us
(previously heavy investors in Microsoft's products) are now pissed off.

firstly the fuck up that is Microsoft Connect where critical defects which
cripple teams for years are ignored (VS HRESULT errors, hanging, crashes) even
if reproducible.

Secondly, partner support is a piece of shit. It took 6 months to get a damn
registry workaround out for the fact that download prompting in IE9 basically
fucked up ClickOnce for 2000 clients for us.

then you fuck us with two license audits which cost us a fortune as it's
impossible to decipher your shit crock licensing.

then you pulled windows 8 on everyone, ignored the entire industry saying "no,
you fucked up".

then you pulled free visual studio for desktop and did a 180.

then you pulled windows 8.1 (which didn't fix windows. 8) and told everyone
that you're not getting it before GA then did another 180.

No, you're not delivering what people want. You're fucking us over again and
again and we're fed up with it. The only reason we're still drinking the milk
is that we're stuck with it until we do a major product cycle.

That time is right now.

~~~
avenger123
I can feel your frustration and you've expressed more vocally than I would
have but I definitely share some of the sentiments.

My biggest beef is tying Visual Studio releases to the .NET framework and
other components. Why should I need Visual Studio 2013/2012 to use Entity
Framework 6 or ASP.NET MVC 5, etc. I can't even figure out what's supported
and what's not with older Studio releases (such as 2010) without spending time
on Google.

I don't really see any reason why Visual Studio 2010 shouldn't support .NET
framework 4.5.1, MVC5, Entity Framework 6.0 etc.. I used to believe there was
some validity to tying a .NET framework version to Visual Studio but I've come
to realize its just a money grab and a way to keep pushing out new Studio
releases. I understand there is some point where you need to move forward.

Anyway, at some point you realize enough is enough. I'm not there yet but I am
definitely tempted to start heavily investing in other development stacks.

~~~
philbarr
What other kinds of dev stacks are you looking at? I use C# in VS with Add-In-
Express for creating Office plugins. It's a total pain in the ass most of the
time and I would love to try something else.

I'm a long time Java/Eclipse guy that's been doing C# for a few years now.
Whilst Eclipse is FAR from perfect, it really does beat VS hands down. Like -
Resharper is basically a must. And running unit tests in Eclipse feels pretty
much instant compared to the VS "I'm going to rebuild everything really slowly
before I run the tests" biz.

~~~
avenger123
I still believe for enterprise development Microsoft is very viable so I don't
see myself necessarily moving away from the platform.

At some level, you can't avoid having to upgrade to the latest and greatest
Visual Studio but in some ways I am trying to move away from all Microsoft
offerings. The biggest is on the database side. I think PostgreSQL running on
a linux machine as a database is a very good solution. I would say at this
point, this would be the biggest change. I also prefer to use
[http://www.llblgen.com/](http://www.llblgen.com/) for an ORM instead of
Entity Framework.

I will tend to pick an open source equivalent for certain functionality
instead of relying on Microsoft's version. For example, nunit for unit
testing, log4net for logging, Quartz.NET for job scheduling, etc.

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judah
Nice. Microsoft heard complaints that developers had no early access to 8.1,
so they reversed their stance and released it to MSDN subscribers.

~~~
devx
It's not like they didn't release it because they were stubborn or whatever.
They didn't release for a reason - it wasn't ready. But because of bad press
so far they will release it anyway - not fully ready, and hope that not being
fully really won't give them even more bad press.

~~~
MichaelGG
Yeah, the term RTM no longer means "final" like it used to. It's more like
shipping a late release candidate, then hoping by GA Windows Update will
install the actual finished parts.

~~~
OrsenPike
This is the thing that has annoyed me the most about this whole thing. RTM has
always meant "release to manufacturing and IT pros". If Microsoft wanted to
change this fair enough but they shouldn't have called it an RTM if that isn't
what they meant.

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reflectiv
Yep, RTM is basically also known as a 'Gold' release or essentially the same
thing end users will get - minus marketing materials and other assorted items
that come along with a final consumer release.

They should not have called it RTM if it wasn't really RTM.

~~~
marshray
Feature Freeze, Feature Complete, Alpha, Beta, Release Candidate, Gold,
Release To Manufacturing...

I've worked at a few software companies and none of them have used these terms
quite the same way.

~~~
OrsenPike
Other companies are not the point here though. Microsoft is and they have been
consistent in their use for the past two decades or more so why the sudden
change?

~~~
marshray
[http://allthingsd.com/20130626/ballmer-at-build-microsoft-
mo...](http://allthingsd.com/20130626/ballmer-at-build-microsoft-moving-
windows-to-rapid-release-cycle/)

~~~
OrsenPike
Sorry but I don't really see the link between that article and Microsoft's
inconsistent use of the term RTM.

They can still move to a rapid release cycle and have a solid RTM. Chrome and
Firefox manage to do it every 6 weeks.

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Avalaxy
If I install this, can I just patch it so that it's on par with the GA version
when it comes out? Or do I need to install a new image then? (running the
consumer preview now)

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harrytuttle
Yes you can. GA is RTM+updates.

~~~
Avalaxy
Thanks :)

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kmfrk
_" It can't get any worse", kmfrk murmured to himself, as he downloaded the
update._

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harrytuttle
More schizophrenia from Microsoft. Just what we need to build confidence...

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kyriakos
i'm trying to download it but it seems their servers are getting hammered..
4-5kb/s.. i guess i'll wait for the heat to go away

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nly
I've read that the same build has been available for weeks via side channels.

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chris-at
This is silly.

We can download the RTM but they locked out the upgrade functionality - fresh
installs only! Wtf?

~~~
computer
It's for developers testing if their programs and apps still function
properly. Not for consumers to get early access. Just run it in a VM.

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caiob
No, thanks.

