
What If It Worked? - jessaustin
https://zedshaw.com/2017/08/26/what-if-it-worked/
======
dghf
Telling people to kill themselves is bad, especially if there's any chance
they might do so.

But the excerpt from the IRC log at the start is a horse of a very different
colour.

The IRC user comes across as maybe a bit abrasive and certainly a bit
exasperated, but at the end of the day he/she

\- told the questioner exactly what they asked for

\- established what they _really_ needed

\- told them that too

\- (hopefully) taught them a lesson in how to express their needs

If <feline> was really "just sooooooo tired of beginners coming and asking
stupid questions", presumably they wouldn't have bothered to: (a) answer a
question (twice); (b) make sure they were answering the right question; (c)
help the questioner phrase their questions better in future.

~~~
eat_veggies
Yeah, I feel like <feline> was less "ASCII BLASTING" and more emphasizing an
important point (I don't think IRC lets you use italics or underlines so caps
would be the only way to go). I've been that noob before (and still am) and I
would have been totally satisfied with that answer. I felt no ill intent
reading that IRC log and I feel like Mr. Shaw was just projecting his own
anger on <feline>.

That said, I thought the rest of the essay was just as bad. To me, it was
saying "hey, anon, you can't get under my skin! That's why I'm writing a full
blog post about how you can't get under my skin, you skinny nerd." Also note
that he closed off comments and (presumably) deleted all of them except for
the two that were literally kissing his ass.

He definitely needs to check his ego.

~~~
candiodari
You see this a lot in IRC channels, but you also see a lot of people just
helping everyone. The secret is that most of these people have a pretty basic
level of knowledge themselves, and that's one of the reasons they're in those
IRC channels. They do it so they can find out gotchas and solve small problems
to become better at something. I've done problem solving for strangers on IRC,
and I must say: it works, in that it seriously improves your own knowledge.

And the thing is: this is one of the greatest things about open source ! You
can actually easily get someone to help you with basic problems. You can just
join one of these IRC channels and go from "mediocre C programmer" to
"slightly-above-mediocre C programmer that knows 5000 gotchas most don't" in a
month or two. You will get invitations to projects and you will find yourself
far more motivated by helping out people than by, say, an online course.

But yes, IRC requires a bit of a thick skin. And whilst there are plenty of
women and even teenage girls there, you quickly learn that on a topical
channel you should not tell anyone who you are.

------
oliwarner
It looks like Zed just doesn't get it...

> If they give a valid email address I usually rip them a new one.

In an article all about hostile online communication, he has to realise by now
that replying to a troll is _exactly_ what they want. If you're getting all
frothy with righteous fury, they've done their job well.

But I suspect Zed _does_ understand all of this and that this article is just
him trying to breathe new life into his little Python controversy.

Snuff it out. Nobody cares, Zed.

~~~
thehardsphere
Given that the python controversy was basically a guerrila marketing ploy to
sell his revised book, I wonder what his angle on this will be.

------
thriftwy
I have a lot of respect for Zed.

Having said that, if we could dedicate the effort we spend on protecting
adults from other adults towards protecting minors from the abuse of other
minors, it would be so much better.

Because compared to minors, adults are like supermen already. They have so
many powers. And I didn't even see one plan on fighting what is now widely
called bullying and therefore considered to be solved by naming.

------
jwilk
"go fucking kill your self pls" is an awful thing to say, but it's not a death
threat.

------
williadc
If there's a valuable insight here, I couldn't get to it. The childish name-
calling put me off.

~~~
dijit
Zed Shaw in a nutshell.

We shouldn't promote his materials. His book on python (Learn Python The Hard
Way) is widely regarded in python circles as being one of the worst tomes of
knowledge. Mostly due to his "I'm the expert don't question me" attitude.

~~~
jessaustin
The "Hard Way" books are not for everyone, but they are exactly what some
people need. Not everyone learns the same way.

I like having Shaw around because his absolutism inspires other absolutists to
step out of cover. It's good to know where all the absolutists are hiding...

~~~
freech
Are those people going to be good and happy programmers?

~~~
jessaustin
Shaw is himself a good programmer, although I wouldn't hazard a guess about
his happiness... I would expect long term programming prospects to be
orthogonal to learning style. Certainly anyone claiming otherwise would have
the burden of proof.

------
irq-1
Great article. Online harrasement and hate are tough subjects. Setting a
simple standard that telling people to kill themselves is unacceptable -- and
trying to do something about it -- is great to see.

Such hate could devestate a very depressed person and we shouldn't treat it as
if the issue is that people don't understand the internet; this isn't an issue
of culture or communication.

------
NormalPersonA4
If I had to guess, this guy clearly loves cocaine, power, and money. Like all
absolutists he fails to understand what has been known since ancient Greek
philosophy, "Just because you think you are the best in the world at
something, doesn't mean other people think the same." His art is terrible, so
I'm guessing with the programming experience of starting Mongrel he is
disillusioned into thinking he actually makes a difference in the world.

If you know about Ghost writing, then you know how he managed to "write" 10
books in six years. On the topic of programming, to learn it takes nothing
special but dedication, and lots of sample programming projects.

The world is filled with things beyond our understanding and just because you
know programming doesn't mean you know shit about other topics, ie. his art,
or writing. I imagine this guy sees himself the opposite of what others see in
him. Who really knows if we will ever have String Theory, a theory of what
makes good music, and how the lower levels of the human brain work.

Another thing is, is this site a humor site, or is it about the latest in
technology and startups. Where is the coverage of anything that resembles a
coherent piece of technology, a business plan that is not a paragraph, or an
understanding that maybe we don't know everything about Science at the
beginning of the twenty-first century.

I see on the front page almost every time I'm here papers about Physics and in
the comments is always the people explaining how a Black Hole holds all its
information on its Event Horizon, or how the Holographic principle makes
String Theory less complicated to understand. Where is the Science, the
testable hypothesis, the ability to understand Science's limitations, it is
all magic. Magic in that it is as made up over the last fifty years by people
that have never taken a Philosophy of Science course.

Anyways, I'm nothing special, just a normal guy who wanted to write an angry
rebuttal because really, if you think you are an expert on everything then you
are just plain wrong. I think Zed could use more ego, what do you guys think?
Also, I'm sorry if this angers anyone. I really do care. Not.

~~~
dang
We've banned this account for violating the HN guidelines.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

