
Sleepbox - damian2000
http://sleepbox.com/
======
veidr
In Japan we have long had 'coffin hotels' (or 'capsule hotels', pre-
Neuromancer). We also have love hotels, which are expressly designed to be
rented for two hours at a time to do whatever nasty, sticky business you can
convince somebody to do with you.

The changing the linens and whatnot are solved problems. (Some businessman-
oriented places have a sealed plastic bag of bedclothes hung in the room...
you have to do the work of putting them on, but the upside is you know they're
clean.)

Getting the price down to where I want to rent one to just take a decent nap
during my layover (maybe $25? $40 at most?) is the key thing. As compared to
'my date and I need a space to get intimate for 2 hours' (~$85... okay fine
$100... What! ARE YOU SERIOUS $175? THAT'S... OKAY _FINE_!)

I for one am rooting for them to succeed before my next international
connecting flight, though.

~~~
cstross
Actually, Yotel already do this:

<http://www.yotel.com/>

I've used the Yotel inside the international transit area at Schiphol for jet
lag purposes, during a 5-hour stopover on an intercontinental flight; it beats
a recliner in a business lounge into a cocked hat for thouse 4-hour dead spots
after a sleepless red-eye. I _wish_ this idea would catch on at more hub
airports!

~~~
jrockway
I've done the same thing at LHR and agree completely.

~~~
adrianhoward
There's a Yotel at heathrow? Damn. Wish I'd known that last week :-)

------
jawns
Even if the pod is somewhat automated (e.g. linens are somehow changed without
human intervention), you're not going to be able to get around the fact that
you'll need someone to collect the dirty linens once in a while and replenish.

And really, the tired business executive is the ideal customer ... but you're
probably more likely to get a bunch of less-than-ideal customers whose actions
inside the pod are going to require a more extensive cleanup.

I have a feeling that even if the company has come up with some innovative
ways to address these problems, I'm pretty sure the public perception of the
pods will be negative, because you're naturally going to assume that the pods
have been occupied by people doing unsavory things. It's going to be perceived
as the generally gross Porta-Potty of the accommodations industry.

One of the nice things about hotels and hostels and other places that are
staffed 24/7 is that if someone lights up a cigarette in a nonsmoking room, or
starts trashing the hotel room, there's someone on hand to address the
problem. Here, I can only assume, the pods would only be sporadically
monitored.

I think a better solution to problem of tired executives with minimal needs
for amenities is in the pod hotels that you can find in the biggest metro
areas. They're somewhat similar to these pods in design, but because they're
located in hotel structures, they are staffed and the linens are changed,
rooms cleaned, etc. by humans:

<http://www.thepodhotel.com/>

~~~
netcan
This is such a software forum!

Why is everyone assuming this is a fully automatic coin operated system?

I read "miniature, ready to go hotel rooms that you can buy, put anywhere you
want (inside a building) and figure out how to manage yourself."

Seems to me like it'd be a good way of doing exactly what you have mentioned:
a podhotel.

~~~
Qwertious
Because that would require people to be PAID to go around, cleaning up the
sleepboxes, which may or may not actually be profitable, when you consider the
cost of the sleepbox on top of it.

The entire POINT of it is that it's automated enough that you don't have to
deal with that crap.

~~~
netcan
Again, where do you read that automated is the point? I read "space saving" &
maybe an implied cheap and/or low maintenance. There is no mention, hint or
implication of automated.

------
m0nastic
I hope something like this takes off, mostly because I'd buy one for my
apartment.

A few years back I spent many weeks trying to figure out how to purchase and
get shipped one of the Japanese capsule hotel units to my apartment. I found a
manufacturer (whose website was entirely in Japanese) and eventually was able
to figure out that it wasn't really feasible (getting one of the units shipped
to the U.S. was a nightmare, and the units are generally meant to be purchased
in bulk), which made me sad.

I fully concede that I'm a weirdo, but I've dreamed about sleeping in a little
cocoon module for most of my life (I spent a lot of my childhood wishing I was
on a submarine, I'm a-ok with enclosed spaces).

~~~
Kliment
Build one! It's not that hard, hardware stores will cut materials for you, and
your local hackerspace will help with design and technical stuff. And it will
have the extra sweetness of being your own hard work.

~~~
pavel_lishin
I wonder what it would take to turn this into a business, and what the demand
would be.

------
edw519
I prefer the MVP I've been using in airports for years:

    
    
      - hoodie
      - ipod with white noise
      - mindfold mask (mindfold.com)
      - inflatable neck pillow
      - backpack with strap wrapped around my arm
      - empty gate of any soon-to-be-bankrupt airline
    

It's already paid for, it works great (the mindfold is the secret, believe
me), it weighs less that a pound, and I can use it on the plane too.

~~~
rdl
Do you not fly enough to have lounge access?

~~~
what
You can pay for lounge access, it's usually around $50. But you can get free
wifi, eat and drink as much as you want, grab a paper, etc. Makes up for the
cost.

~~~
rdl
Yeah -- the cheapest way if you fly a lot, yet have no status or good credit
cards, in many airports, is Priority Pass -- $99/yr + $27/visit. Getting the
$99/yr part free from low-tier credit cards is fairly common, too.

Amex Platinum (which, admittedly, is $450/yr) also gets you into a lot of
lounges.

Founders Card gets you lounge access through mid-tier airline status on a few
airlines (especially useful for Cathay Pacific, my favorite airline in the
world).

I'd totally prefer a coach ticket + $50 lounge pass + + nice ipad and iphone
and $500 headphones + nicer hotel room, food, car, etc. at destination, to
paid first class tickets.

------
ajlburke
I saw similar booths in the Munich airport a few years ago, where they were
called "NapCab". I had had a rough overnight flight and a messy transfer in
Heathrow, a six hour layover in Munich, and of course server problems came up
while I was in the air - so a small private room with calm lighting, power,
and an internet connection was a godsend.

It worked with a credit card and cost (IIRC) about 15 euros per hour (10
euros/hr in the evening). There was a touch-screen for setting lighting, audio
environment, and a wake-up alarm. It also had a bottle opener and a bottle of
water. When you're finished, I gather that janitorial staff are notified and
the NapCab is cleaned up and restocked for the next person.

Their website doesn't seem to be active anymore, so maybe the company didn't
succeed - but here's a not-very-good picture of what mine looked like:

[http://www.flickr.com/photos/26099052@N03/4733241817/in/set-...](http://www.flickr.com/photos/26099052@N03/4733241817/in/set-72157624231703347)

~~~
jagermo
it is still there, sadly only at Terminal 2: [http://www.munich-
airport.de/en/consumer/aufenthalt_trans/ho...](http://www.munich-
airport.de/en/consumer/aufenthalt_trans/hotels/napcabs/index.jsp)

~~~
ajlburke
Good to know they're still there - too bad they haven't expanded much though.

------
ranprieur
"Sleeping in public causes security, privacy and hygiene issues."

This sounds like a rationalization. For me, the reasons not to sleep in public
are that public spaces are designed to discourage it, and cops will wake me
up.

Public sleeping should be a right, but if something like Sleepbox becomes
common, it will become even harder to sleep without having money.

~~~
jfoster
For me it's definitely about the security of my belongings & personal safety.
In certain places personal safety is less of a concern, but belongings are
still so easy for someone to walk off with.

~~~
Devilboy
You can put those in a locker though

~~~
mkopinsky
In the US, there are no more lockers in airports post-9/11.

------
mikecane
Wow. That's going to wind up to be the filthiest box in NYC. Word will spread
among the homeless and drug addicts. Need a quick place to shoot up? There's
the Sleepbox. Given the state of public restrooms in NYC, you're also just
asking for bodily fluids everywhere. This is not a business in America. It's a
money sink and an exercise in frustration. And if you think you can "limit"
who uses it, good luck fending off all the lawsuits that will tell you
otherwise.

~~~
stevenleeg
That's why it would be stupid to stick this on a street. In places like
airports or offices, where drug addicts are going to be significantly less
numerous, something like this makes a lot more sense.

~~~
mikecane
Homeless and Living at the Airport
[http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9109795...](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91097959)

------
TimStaley
But who's going to change and wash the sheets? Especially if it's being rented
out by the hour. Will there be a full laundry after each and every user?

~~~
mmahemoff
They could work towards automating it by dispensing fresh sheets for each
guest and somehow improving the ease of changing them. (I'm sure there's
better ways than changing sheets and covers tediously by hands. I mean a
simple thing for example would be to automatically raise the mattress from the
base.)

~~~
gbog
could have sheets made of many very thin skins and remove one for each client.

------
robert00700
Maybe it's my experience of living in central London but I can certainly think
of many 'demographics' that would be interested in soundproof bedrooms on the
street...

------
ovechtrick
Sometimes I really need to be alone to recharge (introverts, anyone??). And
it's not possible to do it in a busy place.

There are plenty of times I've been in an airport and would love to just be
alone. This would be perfect.

------
ChuckMcM
Great discussion, a lot of it centered around the difficulty of the clientele
screwing up the place. But there are also a lot of assumptions going in which
may not hold.

So if you look at AirBnB, one of its 'features' is that all of the renters and
sellers are pre-vetted (and yes this doesn't always work but it keeps problem
people in the system low). Look at the 'clear' system for pre-screening air
travelers.

This sort of automated sleep spot is vulnerable to being trashed, so one
solution is to create a signup process where the clients get some sort of
identifying token, a key if you will, that allow them to use units.

The Sleepbox folks have a cool futuristic render but they don't seem to have
an actual unit. That is a red flag for me but it only means that I won't
invest in one until I see one actually 'in production.'

Resupply and restocking is a challenge too, but only if you want fast turn
around and low employment costs. You can hire folks to turn over a unit when
someone leaves and just be on site the whole time. Depending on occupancy rate
and charges will determine if that is feasible.

So there are lots of variables but I don't see that there are any huge
barriers to implementing this sort of scheme but I do wonder if there is a
working business model in there somewhere.

~~~
saadmalik01
Actually, it's already available in Moscow airports:
<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14514816>

~~~
ChuckMcM
Interesting, that is dated from August of last year (1 year ago). In fact
there are several articles from that time, here is another one:
[http://www.treehugger.com/sustainable-product-
design/rent-a-...](http://www.treehugger.com/sustainable-product-design/rent-
a-tiny-sleepbox-at-moscow-airport-for-sleeping.html) which has a bit more
detail.

But there isn't anything since then. And to me its even stranger that their
homepage they don't mention the installation. So my take on that was this was
a 'demo' and not a real installation. Can you tell me if there are any being
commercially operated ?

------
SonicSoul
as much as i'd like this to be a reality there are some valid concerns on
comments here.

Possible ways that this could work:

\- Make it subscription based with the regular credit card deposit liability.
Any type of damage to the equipment would be accountable to the person who
stayed there.

\- There would need to be persons responsible for maintaining these units 24
hrs a day. That person could be responsible for units in one space, or an area
depending on use frequency. The unit would not be available until serviced
after every use.

\- Make the unit more transparent. Use tinted glass instead of opaque walls.
Tinted enough to block out bright light, but not opaque so that inhabitant(s)
are not free to do whatever they want. this is just a more comfortable way to
nap/relax and not an actual hotel.

------
damian2000
"Single, double and triple Sleepbox units are available at prices starting at
EUR 7,000 ($8600). With an average annual income of USD 30,000 per unit,
investments pay back in six to nine months, the company says."

From: [http://www.springwise.com/lifestyle_leisure/sleepbox-
helps-t...](http://www.springwise.com/lifestyle_leisure/sleepbox-helps-
travelers-catch-40-winks/)

~~~
cstross
Assuming a 100% load factor, and assuming someone is on hand to change the
linen and keep it clean.

Being more realistic, it might be cash-flow positive from the start and turn a
profit after the first year, _if_ you put it somewhere popular and get the
cleaning/maintenance routine nailed down with decent cost control in place.

------
muyuu
I tried "Yotel" in the Gatwick airport, it's a similar idea but it's in a
dedicated area.

<http://www.yotel.com/Hotels/London-Gatwick/Sleep>

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YOtel>

~~~
mgkimsal
Was about to mention yotel - I loved my stay in my yotel at gatwick. Stayed in
a similar 'tinyroom hotel' in Moscow last year - it wasn't as nice as Yotel.

My only complaint is not really with the concept itself, it's just that I'm
generally using these things, I'm nervous I'll sleep too long and miss my
flight.

------
Someone
This is not a new idea. <http://www.yotel.com> seems a direct competitor.
Also, in the extreme we have the Japanese
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsule_hotel>.

~~~
ekianjo
Capsule hotels are not available in Japan airports, as far as I know...

------
sktrdie
The biggest issue with this is, how do you keep it clean? I wouldn't want to
sleep somewhere that wasn't kept clean. Sure you sleep on train seats that are
publicly shared with hundreds of different people daily. But here we're
talking about actual beds, with pillows and sheets - I wouldn't want to put my
face on a pillow that I knew was used previously by someone else without being
properly cleaned.

------
dools
Please: every restaurant install one of these. How many times have I finished
a meal and just wanted to lie down for 15 minutes??

~~~
skue
You can't wait to drive her home first?

------
eric_bullington
Cool idea, but website needs significant work. For example, the font changes
from sans serif to serif mid-page, for no explicable reason.

I'm assuming you'll require a credit card to use, which should cut down on a
lot of the unsavory activities people are discussing.

------
state
As an architect by training I find it really exciting to see something like
this. The business of architecture is an incredible mess. Although I see a lot
of big challenges in getting this to work well it's a great way to make a
positive intervention in spaces that are often quite negative. Architects
think about this kind of stuff all the time, but they rarely implement it.

All that being said these things look really overwrought, made from a strange
collection of materials, and seem unlikely to be as clean as they should be.
The rounded corners are driving me crazy.

~~~
evoxed
/How interesting... a fellow Cooper architect (and one who appreciates
circuits) on HN!

------
Jimmie
Keeping these things clean would be very hard. Perhaps a better target market
than single-night-guests is medium-term-guests.

I could see myself renting one of these things for a month in a city I visit
on holiday.

------
jvdh
If these are a reasonably soundproof, they would be awesome in airports.

------
aauldy
This is bigger than my Tokyo apartment.

------
navs
I've been sleeping in my office a lot lately. My home environment is far too
noisy. Now I would love a sleepbox but yes I question two things: hygiene and
noise. Hopefully it's well ventilated and there's no bugs but oh how I'd love
a showerbox attachment. Also, how well does it isolate noise? Airports are
noisy places. Does it isolate low frequency as well? If it does, I'd buy one
for my terrible apartment.

------
alkimie
They claim: "Design and functional elements are additionally protected by
patents, including European patent No 001742719, Russian Federation patent
RU2010501345, and US patent (pending)." I did a few minutes searching at the
WIPO website because this really does seem like old art, and I was wondering
if they simply did design patents. I could not find public documents on either
the EP or Russian patents.

------
ww520
It might just work if it's placed in a restricted "member" only area, like in
an airport. After passing through security and check-in, the customer base has
been vetted and pre-qualified. Travelers usually are relatively well off and
well behaved, after passed through security. There're less chance of the place
being trashed.

------
itmag
I'm more interested in a portable version.

~~~
Qwertious
As am I. The issue is, how much space would the unfolded thing be, how would
you ensure it's soundproof, and would you be able to carry it around normally?
Presumably it'd be something that expands, maybe self-expanding. It wouldn't
exactly be secure (someone would likely be able to cut through it) but it'd be
easy enough to make it so if someone does so, it sets off some sort of alarm
(to stop people cutting the thing open, and taking your stuff while you're
sleeping).

I think the obvious thing would be to integrate it with a backpack (with the
backpack itself expandable in size, probably), and have only the bed/matress
there (so it's not very tall, even when expanded).)

~~~
itmag
Kickstarter? :)

------
learc83
Many comments seemed concerned about the public perception that these will
often be used for sex.

Since this is aimed at business travelers, it shouldn't be too hard to limit
it to single occupancy.

Just add some kind of occupancy sensor--weight distribution on the bed maybe--
that alerts an employee when it detects more than one person.

~~~
antiterra
That sounds like a completely unwieldy solution. Is an alarm going to go off
every time I lift my legs up off the bed? What if I put a heavy suitcase on
the bed next to me? Would you want your company to be known for refusing to
allow a nursing mother and father to sit next to each other on the bed? What
about a parent and a child?

Further, a hotel owner can't just barge in on a tenant. They have to believe
someone is doing something illegal, disturbing other tenants or causing
damage.

~~~
learc83
>Is an alarm going to go off every time I lift my legs up off the bed? What if
I put a heavy suitcase on the bed next to me?

I think I could write an algorithm to filter out the vast majority of false
positives. With enough pressure sensors under the mattress, and maybe passive
IR it really shouldn't be too difficult (face recognition with automated
deletes and no long term recording or viewing capabilities would probably be
easiest, but people would find it creepy). Suitcases don't move the way people
do, pressure distribution is different (also who's traveling with 100+ pound
suitcases) etc...

Moving your legs shouldn't be too hard to filter out either. Btw if anyone
wants to pay me, I'm up for the project ;)

Now that I think about it Volvo made a heartbeat sensor, I think using an
acceleration to detect minute vibrations. That could work as well.

>Would you want your company to be known for refusing to allow a nursing
mother and father to sit next to each other on the bed? What about a parent
and a child?

This is only for single occupancy business travel pods, no room for 2 people,
no children allowed.

>Further, a hotel owner can't just barge in on a tenant. They have to believe
someone is doing something illegal, disturbing other tenants or causing
damage.

That depends on local laws, in many places breaking house rules (having more
than one occupant) is enough to allow them to enter.

In any case it doesn't matter, if they have reason to believe you are breaking
the rules they can keep knocking on the door until you open up.

------
brackin
This is a great idea if not too expensive and implemented correctly. (Clean
and wakes me up for my flight). I was trying to get my fairly liberal school
to put hammocks in. I had a lesson at 9am and then at 2pm, sometimes I had
little to do and left and returned.

------
grimgrin
"They will enjoy hotel level of security and comfort at a hostel price.
Suggested night rate 60+ USD."

I always thought hostels were cheaper than that, per night. Is that pretty
accurate though?

------
gbog
That's nice but for airport what about fixing the real problem, which is that
it is so hard to sleep during the flight. More silent planes and hamacs could
be the answer.

------
bmuon
I foresee as much use for short naps as for quickies.

------
yaliceme
Wow, what a pleasant surprise to see this familiar (to me) business on HN. I
researched Sleepbox extensively while working to found a startup called
"NapTime" that would operate napping pods in high-sleep-demand areas (same
pain point, different design). Yotel, Metronaps, MinuteSuites, YeloCab,
FirstClass Seats (arguably), and several other businesses are similar in
concept.

I worked on this startup for about 7 months with 3 other grad students (at the
time) and thus have spent way too much time learning about this problem, the
challenges involved in addressing it, and prior/existing attempts to do so. We
directly interviewed over 100 potential customers for it, managed to track
down and talk to other founders in this space, wrote a full business plan,
etc. Here are some of my insights:

\- Far and away the #1 most commonly asked question we got was: "But won't
people have sex in it?" The #2 most common (arguably a corollary) was “How
will you keep them clean?” But that’s not the interesting part... the
fascinating thing is that you ONLY get these questions when people are
envisioning something similar to the Sleepbox (frequently mocked as “Sexbox”
or “Sleazebox” in online comment sections and the like). Neither Metronaps
(i.e. high-tech recliner) nor Yotel (i.e. super-compact hotel room) seem to
inspire this “ick” factor. Why? My hypothesis: Imagine a spectrum from “chair-
like” (zero enclosure, zero privacy) to “room-like” (total enclosure, total
privacy). On the “chair” end, it doesn’t really occur to us that some stranger
might have sexed on it, even if it’s totally possible. On the “room” end, we
know full well that strangers probably HAVE sexed there, but it doesn’t bother
us because we consider a private room to be an acceptable, non-sketchy place
to do such things. It’s only at some point in the middle that the perceived
“wholesomeness” of the design plummets dramatically... we are squicked by the
thought that some stranger may have sexed _somewhere they are not SUPPOSED
to._ This effect was so predictable that I started calling it the “Unwholesome
Valley” (like the “Uncanny Valley,” but with a different x-axis) For NapTime,
I had some ideas for how to get safely to the left, “chair” end of the
Unwholesome Valley while still providing a sense of security (highly important
to most people we interviewed) and making access restriction a possibility
(essential if you want to make any money.)

\- People often think of airline travelers as the most lucrative market for a
sleep pod business, because they’re always tired, they’re a captive market,
and travelers are often willing to spend more money. However, there are a few
major hurdles that make airports a difficult place to make money (most of
these I learned from talking with a founder who had tried to do an airport
version of their napping business, without success). Perhaps the most non-
obvious is this: airports are _empty_ most of the time. Most airports have
four “spikes” per day when it is crowded; the rest of the time, it is almost
totally deserted. Most of us perceive airports as being busy all the time;
this is because we, as travelers, are only there during those spikes.
Businesses who sell to airline travelers know otherwise. The “spiky” nature of
airport occupancy is a particular problem for a napping pod business because
1) Most of the time, there are no customers around and 2) When you are
suddenly surrounded by customers during a spike, you have limited ability to
take advantage of it, because each pod only holds one person (unlike an
airport coffee stand which is limited only by how quickly they can perform
each transaction). However, I do believe success is possible if you account
for the challenges while designing the business model and the pod itself.

\- Despite the technical challenges, I believe that it is better to have a
“vending” model where each pod is independent and self-service, rather than a
“sleep salon” model where the pods are grouped together in a lounge with an
attendant. The primary reason (again, according to founder interview) is that
tired people are extremely reluctant to walk ANY distance to get their nap, so
you need to locate the pod _exactly_ where the demand is (demand is spread out
within the building, and so too must your pods). I would also hypothesize that
tired people would prefer not to interact with a human attendant and deal with
the self-consciousness of sleeping in his/her presence.

Long post, I know, but this was practically my whole life for the better part
of a year, so I have lots to babble about. My cofounders ended up ditching the
project upon graduation despite seeming very gung-ho about founding up until
that point. I put the project on ice, but I would love to pick it up again
someday under the right circumstances and with the right people. Who knows...
if you’re interested, contact me. I live near Mountain View.

------
damian2000
I think it would have a good market in replacing shared hostel/dorm room
accommodation for backpackers.

------
ricardobeat
Did this thing catch on? I remember reading about it a couple years back.

------
dgallagher
How do they hedge against bed bugs?

That's a solvable problem. I still love the idea.

------
corporalagumbo
you could potentially integrate physiological sensors to monitor for occupant
numbers and elevated heart and breathing rates to detect for sexual activity,
then have some sort of warning, alarm and deterrence system if you were
interested in preventing it from happening. or customers who use the pod for
sex could automatically be billed a premium/fee (assuming credit card use).
molecular sniffers might be possible to monitor for drug use. but the best
strategy to ensure would probably be deploying them in limited-access
environments. or perhaps fixing the roots of anti-social behaviour and
mistrust in our societies.

~~~
the1
What's wrong with sex in the box? Why not just install camera then?

~~~
Qwertious
I read that as "why not just pay the premiums of sex by selling a recording of
them going at it, as amateur porn?".

------
zzzeek
nice, but at what point can we get over associating radically new living space
ideas with the design ethos of "2001 A Space Odyssey" ?

------
petegrif
I love this :)

------
help1
Please try "Settings -> Show advanced settings -> Web Content" in Google
Chrome and set the font size to "Very large". Then visit your page again.

gz

------
beedogs
looks cool, but the website is kinda meh. that currency picture on the bottom
is super-pixellated.

------
exit
did anyone else think this was a bufferbox parody?

