
Why You Can Focus in a Coffee Shop but Not in Your Open Office - apress
https://hbr.org/2017/10/why-you-can-focus-in-a-coffee-shop-but-not-in-your-open-office
======
tritium
The power differential implicit in the voice of managers.

The competitive aspect of operating alongside co-workers.

The fairness of slacking off, letting one's mind wander, contemplating a hard
problem while staring off into space and refraining from typing at a keyboard,
maybe running late in the mornings, versus doing " _real_ " work, ass in
chair, on time, contributing ideas in meetings and phone calls, producing
visible progress...

Whether or not people (who can affect your ability to put a roof over your
head) _ARE NOTICING YOUR EVERY MOVE_.

This is what an open office is does to me. The anxiety induced by others, and
their potential for influencing where the rubber meets the road.

~~~
southphillyman
I can probably count on my hands the amount of times I browsed HN/non work
related sites when I worked in an open office environment. Much like Agile,
it's an effective tool to micro manage white collar workers.

~~~
emidln
I quit a job where a manager kept bringing up my web browsing during "office
hours". During a conversation, my manager was more concerned about appearance
of working than my steadfast project delivery and meeting attendance. Places
like that can find other warm bodies and I can find places to pay me.

~~~
southphillyman
Interesting. The manager at my open office position brought up how I didn't
get up and talk to other team members enough. So I made an effort to have
casual conversation with others during the day.....and got criticized for
talking too much in my next one on one. That was likely just bad mentoring but
it opened my eyes as to how someone across a large room, ironically in an
office, was presumably able to monitor my activity from afar all day long.

------
Ajedi32
For me it's not about the noise, it's about whether or not the noise is in
fact, just noise, or if it's interesting enough to draw my attention.

Random conversation in a coffee shop or cafeteria? No problem. People
discussing the latest episode of my favorite TV show? Distracting.

Instrumental music, or songs I've heard a million times before? Just noise. A
new song with interesting lyrics, or a personal favorite I've been really into
lately? Distracting.

~~~
imglorp
Coworkers discussing an issue I'm working on? Super distracting.

~~~
wccrawford
Discussing _anything_ , for me. I never know if it's something I should be
listening to or not. It might become important.

Now, since my solution is to shut my door, you'd think I could just say, "Yup,
nothing matters" and ignore it. But it just doesn't work that way.

~~~
abainbridge
In the open office environment I used to work in I got quite good at ignoring
coworkers discussions about stuff they were working on. But as they crammed
more and more people into the building, the probability of being within
earshot of multiple discussions at once went up. I could sit in my chair
getting angry when there was only two. When it got to three concurrent
discussions I found I had to leave the vicinity. Some people could ignore it
all. Impressive.

------
osrec
I think it's more about being on display. In an open office you are on show
and must look like you're working. This is hugely counter-productive, as you
can't even have a comfortable "pause for thought" without someone assuming
you're taking it easy! I remember feeling super tense at my desk because of
this expectation to look busy.

In a coffee shop, you can be more relaxed, enjoy the environment, enjoy the
hustle and bustle and dip in and out of intense concentration without caring
who's judging you. It's just a more natural way to be and allows you to think
clearly with a nice rhythm. Needless to say, I have spent a number of very
productive hours in the coffee shops of London!

------
interfixus
This penchant for working in 'coffee shops' or other public spaces always
leaves me _utterly_ mystified. What on Earth could be the point, instead of
going home, or to some library in a pinch?

Says the attention deficited introvert in his very quiet house far, far out in
the boondocks.

~~~
kps
Working on laptops _anywhere_ —​ other than as a last resort while actually
travelling —​ leaves me utterly mystified. Tiny screen and execrable
ergonomics.

~~~
Retra
It depends on what kind of applications and control you need. I can work on my
own stuff at home very easily on a laptop because I have a fairly streamlined
process. I can just tab between my terminal and text editor. I can't do that
with my job, since I need probably 20 different programs running at once:
multiple browser windows, debugger, specialized programs, chat window, email
window, multiple text editors and guis... it's a major hassle on a laptop.

------
logingone
For me it's the jarring noise. A coffeeshop tends to have consistent levels of
muddied noise, whereas the office might be quiet and then suddenly a clear,
loud voice starts, and another couple of clear, loud voices arrive - jarring.
Also, office lights are too bright, they switch me off somehow. Then the
erratic temperature - freezing for a couple of hours, then tropical for a few,
then back to icy. The office is, ironically, the worst possible environment
for getting any work done.

------
post_break
You know what makes me work even harder in a coffee shop? Leave your charger
at home. You suddenly become more efficient since you know your time is
limited. Assuming you're not on a thinkpad with a 9 cell battery.

~~~
DerfNet
As a T420 owner who can barely make it through a 2 hour movie on my 9 cell
battery, this comment is confusing.

~~~
post_break
X230 here, usually get 7 hours no problem.

------
abhgh
For me, I think, the primary reason an open office often doesn't work (I say
'often' because sometimes it does) is that being physically and visibly
present seems to signal that you are available for answering sporadic queries
from others. Interruptions are hard to entertain when your work demands
focused time-chunks. No one knows me (enough to disturb me) at a coffee-shop.

I can tune out conversations, even if the participants are people I know. A
good headset comes in handy too.

I agree with the article in that some noise level helps. In fact I'd go so far
as to say occasional human interactions help - it has the effect of drawing
your mind out of the details of a problem and drop it back in from a high
altitude (when you re-engage after the interaction), which is a process that
aids problem-solving.

Fun anecdotal "evidence": there was this exam I was preparing for, for months,
and then my brother informed me that he will be coming down for a month-long
visit. I told myself immediately that the duration of his stay is going to be
all about damage-control; we're going to spend a lot of time together, so I
won't be able to put in a lot of hours, which of course means my productivity
would drop. A couple of months later after the visit, when I was assessing how
much I got done in which month - guess which one ended up at the top - the
month my brother visited! While the no of hrs had dropped, the "density" of
work had gone up.

------
danohu
"But new research shows that it may not be the sound itself that distracts
us…it may be who is making it."

For me, the absolute perfect background noise is people talking in a language
I don't understand. If you're in a big city, there are almost certainly cafes
with customers mainly from some linguistic minority -- I've found them to be
great places to work.

[on roughly the same principle, I sometimes listen to foreign-language pop
music while working, so the vocal aspect becomes just another instrument
rather than a source of distraction]

~~~
miek
I do the exact same - listen to foreign music. I can't listen to truly
interesting instrumental music because it's distracting, and music with too
much emotion grabs too much of my attention. I'll add: I do well with
progressive electronic music that doesn't have much going on in it, and some
sci-fi movie soundtracks. Additionally, Deuter is great, and his entire
catalog is on Spotify.

------
megaman22
Working from home is friction-free, and most productive.

Coming to the office and working in my private office, if nobody else is in
the building, comes second.

Working in my office at the office in a normal day when everybody is there, I
can maybe get an hour or two of real work done in an eight hour day.

If I had to work in an open office, I'd give myself maybe three days before I
was doing things like this:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLdAVdc4luE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLdAVdc4luE)

~~~
Chris2048
> if nobody else is in the building

private office _and_ empty building??

~~~
megaman22
Like a Sunday afternoon, say.

Or when a couple of coworkers all have their small children too ill for
daycare at the same time. It's a small company...

------
dredmorbius
Convos in coffee shops don't, generally, have the ability to affect yor task,
position, employment, or career.

Convos in offices do.

You attune highly to the latter with reason.

~~~
maxxxxx
I am actually ok with overhearing stuff that's relevant. It's the irrelevant
stuff that kills me.

I have some neighbors who can talk for hours about cars, movies and whatever.
There is a good chance that I will never have anything work related to do with
these guys but I have to listen to these intense discussions for hours.

Also the background noise:

It always amazes me when power fails once a year how quiet and peaceful the
whole place gets. You get used to the constant noise and only when it's really
quiet you realize how stressful it is.

~~~
dredmorbius
Good point. In a coffeeshop, those conversations are less likely to be
repeated day in and day out, and if sufficiently annoying, you can choose to
be elsewhere. In an office, you're stuck with the situation, and can do little
about it.

------
ccleary00
I've found being able to migrate from coffee shop to coffee shop is very
effective in helping me get unstuck from problems. Not sure if it's the 15
minute break that comes with traveling to another shop or if it's the change
of scenery and atmosphere, but it really does the trick.

~~~
swvjeff
I do the same and it really helps my productivity. I have no clue why it
actually works, but I've been using the strategy successfully for a few years
now. I always suggest the idea to a coworker if they're stuck on a problem or
find themselves unmotivated.

~~~
ccleary00
Nice, have you been working remotely the last few years?

~~~
swvjeff
Yes, I work remotely a few days a week.

------
gist
It's more than getting drawn into conversations. In a different place, where
you don't know anyone, it is also more likely that you will not be annoyed by
someone that you have a history with with simply hearing their voice. So
merely noticing the sound of 'johns' voice is enough to set you and distract
and/or bother. But if you don't know 'john' it's simply not the same impact.

An similar example would be my reaction to leaf blowers or lawn mowers outside
my office. When they come I am always annoyed and bothered. However equally
disturbing or loud (if you want to call it that) noises I typically don't care
about. It's the 'hear it goes again!' that makes it (to me at least)
disturbing.

------
cefthurston
Back in the day when I used to work on side projects in Sydney before there
was really a coworking space culture I used to work at the library.

I soon stopped because it was full of high school students who didn't want to
be there and the sound of a hushed conversation against a backdrop of silence
was _really_ distracting.

I quickly started going to foodcourts instead. Those are better than coffee
shops for me. There's a lot more white-noise and less pressure to order
anything because no vendor feels you're taking 'their space'.

Outlets were a bit harder but doable but outweighed by food choice at meal
times and ability to run quick errands if needed.

This was from Waverley Library to Westfield's food court in Bondi Junction in
2012 fwiw.

------
itomato
I don't need the HBR to tell me strangers are easier to filter.

A coffee shop is (usually) a threat-free environment; free of sudden power
struggle, simply because I am effectively "alone".

------
craftyguy
I focus best when listening to black metal, the actual setting doesn't matter
so much.

~~~
marssaxman
For me it has long been psytrance, but I'm sure it is the same principle.

------
romanovcode
At office I have

\- Air humidifier

\- Boose QC35

\- 27 inch 4k monitor

\- Mechanical keyboard

\- Gaming mouspad + gaming mouse

\- Huge desk

I seriously don't get why would anyone go to coffee shops to work. Seems
totally counter-intuitive to me.

Staring at 13 inch screen without mouse and using not-so-good keyboard seems
just waste of my time. Not to mention small tables they have there.

~~~
spicytunacone
I can luckily do everything I need to on the same laptop I cut my teeth for my
degree on. Thankfully no chiclet keys and I have a working track point. It's
even easily user servicible, I have replaced the keyboard once already with
cheap parts from eBay. I guess I'm lucky I don't need massive power to still
run most things I work with natively, but if you mostly work in the
commandline it wouldn't be a nightmare to ssh/mosh in wherever you need to.
After that I get to enjoy working in a Linux desktop environment with all its
programmability and keyboard shortcuts go a long way.

I've never known an environment like the one you describe, but it may surprise
you that a relatively luddite setup can go a long way once you're accustomed
to it.

------
Shivetya
One disturbing event where I am is there are plans afoot to remodel the
developer floors to remove the upper cubicle storage areas. Not quite a open
floor plan but it removes what privacy developers do have. It had been done in
a support areas because of managers who wanted to "check on who was where" and
such.

unless an open office plan includes the management all it does is further
enforce the power structure in place. first people offices to cubicles, but
that became acceptable because you still had the walls to give you defined
space, now that those go it is the last bastion where you can be isolated is
lost.

~~~
52-6F-62
We got kind of lucky at my office. Our floors missed the big sweep the last
CEO was doing to make everything open office. They apparently hit some floors
in this building and did a sort of halfway job with it to poor effect. I've
been to another building where they finished and it's nice, but seems a little
tense. Walking through there for meetings garners stares from everybody
working in the area.

I still have something like this, Herman Miller cube with an extra moveable
privacy wall out of the way of main traffic. After this thread it's feeling
like a bit of heaven. It has an additional cupboard and garment locker to my
left and a rolling, padded stool, drawer set. Ample desk space and modular
shelving units. I'm spoiled, apparently.

[https://i.pinimg.com/736x/06/32/b0/0632b0ce27c7d245fa6ca378e...](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/06/32/b0/0632b0ce27c7d245fa6ca378ef325d20
--office-cubicles-small-office.jpg)

------
itsdrewmiller
The first study at least looks like a prime candidate for the replication
crisis - lots of different combinations of parameters, some of which are just
barely statistically significant (and others that are not).

~~~
abecedarius
The summary article did not tell us the measured effect size, either. I'd hope
the actual paper did, though it's not something you can depend on (sheesh).

------
iluvmylife
I have founds apps like Coffitivity [0] that simulate coffee shop banter
extremely helpul with my productivity.

[0] [https://coffitivity.com/](https://coffitivity.com/)

~~~
fractal618
music without lyrics.

i decided to pay for google play music, it's probably my favorite paid service
since i got it almost a year ago.

cmd.fm and jamendo are also pretty fantastic

~~~
timgebrally
"God is an Astronaut" radio on Google Play music makes for great concentration
music.

~~~
squeaky-clean
I originally found this link on the HN front page years ago and have kept it
bookmarked. It's got lots of good suggestions like this. The comments on the
post have great suggestions too.

[https://zach-adams.com/2014/05/music-to-listen-to-while-
codi...](https://zach-adams.com/2014/05/music-to-listen-to-while-coding/)

~~~
Anthony-G
Thanks for that link. I already listen to half the artists mentioned in the
article, so I’m interested in checking out the others. I only recently
discovered Tycho (who sound very similar to Ulrich Schnauss) while God is an
Astronaut (along with Mogwai) have been on my play-list for the past decade or
so. I’d also recommend minimal techno and the second wave of Detroit (Carl
Craig, Kenny Larkin, etc.). I spend a lot of time listening to Warp records
from the 90s. When I really need to get stuff done, I reach for Fuck Buttons
(best listened to with a player capable of gap-less playback).

------
Mz
For me, it also made me uncomfortably aware of office politics and other crap
of that sort. So, it made me very aware that, no, people were not being
treated fairly. This is a thing that very much grates on me and made me feel
personally threatened. I have a strong sense of fairness. My inability to shut
this stuff out was a source of personal aggravation that helped me decide I
did not wish to be there long term.

------
rjplatte
To me, this has always been a matter of my attention filter. If I'm in an
environment where my attention is being pulled to various snatches of
conversation, all of which have some tiny detail that I notice, my focus will
invariably suffer.

In a coffeeshop, almost nobody says anything that triggers that filter,
thereby letting me block out that noise more effectively.

------
ConceptJunkie
The concept of open offices is the most discredited idea since phrenology, but
management loves it. It's cheap, and it gives you the illusion of control. All
the bad things it causes are less tangible and more easily ignored.

~~~
ConceptJunkie
If I couldn't work with music, I wouldn't be able to stand working in an open
office. There is just too much random, and most importantly, annoying noises.

------
NumberSix
People vary. I find it quite difficult to work effectively in an open office.
Coffee shops are often better but not that great. I find either total silence
or soft instrumental music is usually best for me. Some people seem to enjoy
open offices although I suspect their work is different and does not require
the same level of deep concentration.

The obvious solution is to allow people to select the office environment that
works best for them: office, cubicle, open area etc. instead of imposing a one
size fits all "solution" from above.

------
imron
I can't focus on programming work in a coffee shop either.

------
ssharp
I have a harder time focusing in coffee shops than I do in open offices.

Coffee shop noises are not really "background noises" for me. The noises I
hear tend to be the people talking loudly that stick out, the people munching
on food, and the people slurping coffee loudly. There are also visual
distractions like people coming and going.

I think libraries offer a far better trade off between being somewhere public
and being free from many noises.

------
Cthulhu_
I've had this experience last week, when we went to work in a hackerspace of
sorts - just desks for rent in an open office space. It was relatively quiet
because most people were just working on their own shit, and any conversation
at another table (if there was any) was simply not relevant to what you were
doing.

------
pjmlp
I don't get the Open Office hate, given that our universities and most of the
companies only use this kind of concept.

The only issue is having quite places for the meetings.

~~~
megaman22
In university, if you were going to go and get some serious work done, it was
generally accepted that you went and hid in the stacks in the bowels of the
library, or some other hidey-hole where it was quiet and people wouldn't find
you or bother you.

One of the best perks of having a work-study job doing maintenance and AV
stuff was having a set of keys that allowed getting into out-of-the-way places
so you could post up with your tote bag of sources and grind out term papers.

~~~
pjmlp
We didn't had such privileges.

The library only had books, laptops were out of reach for most pockets and the
computer labs had about 20 PCs per room.

------
l5870uoo9y
Depending on the cafe, in Berlin many of the hippest coffee roasteries blast
out loud techno.

~~~
ssijak
That sounds great

------
subcosmos
Caffeine

