
Amazon’s Latest Experiment: Retraining Its Work Force - artsandsci
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/11/technology/amazon-workers-retraining-automation.html
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super-serial
I wonder what the success rate is for their retraining program to turn factory
workers into coders.

When watching Andrew Yang's Presidential pitch for UBI he said most government
retraining programs only have a success rate of 17%.

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ardy42
> I wonder what the success rate is for their retraining program to turn
> factory workers into coders.

Probably about 0% for their warehouse workers: they're so exhausted by the end
of their shifts that they won't have the energy to learn, and their most at
risk of losing their jobs to automation.

This is a feel-good announcement that will likely do little good without other
management changes that Amazon is probably loathe to make.

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lbatx
1\. Is it really too much to believe that someone with a physically demanding
job might be in good enough condition to do something else after work? I'm
pretty sure folks in all sorts of physical jobs have physical hobbies as well.
You never hear this sort of excuse about carpenters.

2\. It's hard to work full time and go to school after. It's by definition
going above and beyond.

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Dylan16807
"Excuse"? You think people are being too lenient about the warehouse workers?
Those jobs are awful, and it's not about simply being a physical job. I would
_much_ rather do carpentry.

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lbatx
There are a lot of awful jobs. Roofer in Phoenix in the summer, for example.

No, I don't think people are being too lenient -- it's a bit more subtle than
that. There are many physically demanding jobs, some as much or more so than
warehouse worker. I was questioning why we never see people say people in
those job families couldn't possibly study after a day at work.

What you want to do is also irrelevant, as you might have an enjoyment of
carpentry. Me, I hate it, and would rather be a warehouse worker.

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pkaye
My first job out of school 25 years ago they were big on further education and
training. You actually had in your yearly objectives that you complete atleast
10 days of training. There was a dedicated campus for this purpose. And these
were indepth courses that would spend 5 full days on some skills. I don't see
that kind of thing any more and miss it.

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reaperducer
The company I work for mandates a certain number of classes per employee each
year and has a list of about 30 others that are optional.

Some are as basic as Advanced Microsoft Word. Some are upper level management
stuff, but are open to any employee in any role all the way down to the
security guards.

A cooking class is offered every other month. I always take those.

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irjustin
Maybe unpopular opinion, but I welcome this.

The landscape is changing and Amazon is willing to try and put serious effort
into keeping its current employees instead of just letting them be laid off
only to be left behind.

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martinpw
Amazon revenue in 2018 grew 30% over 2017, but headcount grew only 15%, which
is quite an increase in efficiency per employee. That doesn't really make the
headlines since there is still overall headcount growth.

As they get larger it is harder to grow revenue that fast percentage-wise. If
revenue growth rates drop below ~15%, and that rate of efficiency gains
continue, then it would lead to net headcount reductions, which will likely
generate much less positive press. So this seems like a good way to get ahead
of that soon to be upcoming bad press. Whether it is just PR spin or a genuine
effort to mitigate this is I guess open for debate.

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petra
>>Amazon revenue in 2018 grew 30% over 2017, but headcount grew only 15%

Amazon outsources a ton of work,for ex. To it's 3rd party merchants.

So it's a bit harder to measure productivity.

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mrbonner
I am waiting for a day when “machine learning scientists” are the blue collar
workers.

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joehandzik
Blue collar machine learning jobs center around data labeling:
[https://www.techrepublic.com/article/is-data-labeling-the-
ne...](https://www.techrepublic.com/article/is-data-labeling-the-new-blue-
collar-job-of-the-ai-era/)

I don't ever see the actual modeling work around AI becoming blue collar. It's
complex and worth the price to the companies that can build a business around
it. The data labeling, however, can be pretty simple.

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killjoywashere
I suspect even the high-end labeling (e.g. cancer) can become blue collar with
appropriate training, given adequate outcomes data to compare labelers
against.

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opportune
"high-end labeling" for cancer is often done by undergraduates making $0-15/hr
after a couple hours of training

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killjoywashere
That sounds like an academic lab working from grant funding. Did the FDA
approve those models for clinical use?

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opportune
> That sounds like an academic lab working from grant funding.

Yes

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pololee
I misread "retraining" as "retaining". My first thought was it must be a joke
or I misunderstood it.

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mdorazio
It kind of bothers me that there's always an assumption on HN that we need to
retrain people into coders instead of any one of the hundreds of other jobs in
high demand. You'd probably have a lot better results retraining warehouse
workers into plumbers, electricians, and HVAC installers, for example. Or on
the corporate side, QA testers, entry level IT support, etc.

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martinpw
It is not just coding. This WSJ article has some more detail:

[https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-to-retrain-a-third-of-
it...](https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-to-retrain-a-third-of-its-u-s-
workforce-11562841120)

eg

 _The training programs could help Amazon workers find jobs in different
industries, the company said. It is expanding a program for fulfillment-center
employees called Amazon Career Choice that pays 95% of tuition and fees for
certificates and degrees in high-demand fields such as nursing and aircraft
mechanics_

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mdorazio
Thanks. I missed that part in the article.

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OedipusRex
There are programs in the failing coal towns to teach former coal miners how
to code. I'm not sure the stats on the success rate though.

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dotnetdemon
Extremely low:
[https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2019/5/23/1859813/-Students-C...](https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2019/5/23/1859813/-Students-
Charge-Coding-Future-Was-Tech-Fraud)

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redleader9345
huh. who'd of guessed that coal miners can't code?

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mywittyname
I suspect that most laymen find our line of work to be kind of trivial and
think that success in this field is more related to youth than intelligence.
To them, "coding" is more akin to carpentry (a trade) than physics (a
science).

Also, pointing out that not every coal miner can learn to code is seen as
culturally insensitive and perpetuating the stereotype that rural people are
dumb. Which I understand, but a little honesty could have seen these resources
better leveraged to help these people in different ways.

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seanmcdirmid
Is carpentry really that easy to master? Practical arts all require lots of
practice. The only thing that makes coding very different is all the
abstraction (so more like machine design than wood assembly).

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mywittyname
I used carpentry very deliberately. It's a skill that's seen to require
practice, but is still very accessible. Most able-bodied people can build
stuff with wood. In fact, most of our grandfathers (assuming American)
probably did wood working as a hobby.

It used to be taught to grade school kids. I distinctly remember building
adirondack chairs, picnic tables, and benches in wood shop, from dimensional
lumber, for use in local parks. Thirteen year old kids can build practical
objects using wood, with guidance.

While physics is voodoo. Even genuinely intelligent people have difficulty
grasping it.

CS probably lies somewhere in-between, intellectually, but is seen as
something that can just be taught to any person and they can be productive.

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istorical
Headline might be more clear as 'Amazon to Retrain a Third of its U.S.
Workers...'

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dang
We've updated the headline to that of the article. NYT headlines often change,
so I assume that happened here.

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musicale
I definitely read that as "retain."

