
Evolving the Firefox Brand - mmoogle
https://blog.mozilla.org/opendesign/evolving-the-firefox-brand/
======
dsr_
Only foxes chasing their tails look like Firefox.

Everything which is not recognizably a circular fox-thing is something else.

Hypothesis: marketing people are afraid to continue a brand identity that can
go on for decades, because that kind of success means that they don't have a
redesign project every three years.

AT&T has been a variation on the Death Star since 1984.

IBM has been horizontally striped initials since 1972.

NBC is a peacock.

McDonald's is golden arches.

Firefox should be a flaming fox chasing its tail.

~~~
some_account
I very much agree. Marketing people will always want to design fresh things
because that's what they love to do. Once their product dies, they move on to
something else.

Marketing people also believe that you can sell anything with a fresh coat of
paint. They are trained to sell.

I think the new icons are awful. You don't even see it's Firefox anymore. God
I dislike marketing people so much. :(

~~~
arthurfm
> You don't even see it's Firefox anymore

Are Mozilla's designers simply following the 'debranding' or 'decorporatizing'
trend? [1] [2]

[1] [https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/the-
age...](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/the-age-of-the-
wordless-logo/499166/?single_page=true)

[2]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17649985](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17649985)

~~~
anonymousCar
Opened that Atlantic article and it prompted my phone for camera a d
microphone permissions.

------
gkoberger
At this point, Mozilla's biggest asset is the Firefox brand. Seems unwise to
go with a bland, generic redesign... especially one that's a blatant rip off
of GitLab.

It also seems like they're going to have two "main logos"? And incredibly
different logos for each flavor of Firefox? I used to work at Mozilla, and it
was already confusing enough to explain Mozilla vs Firefox to the average
person.

Their current userbase is mostly less-tech-savvy people, and I can't imagine
changing the icon is going to go well for Firefox. Much like how it took
Firefox a decade to convince people "The Internet" wasn't just IE's "e" logo
that came preinstalled, changing their icon is going to hurt way more than it
helps.

~~~
bobthepanda
It looks like they're trying to leverage the Firefox for the main logo for
Mozilla, which is the rather disconnected `moz://la`.

The logos aren't very impressive, but most people will just see the Firefox
Quantum logo, and that looks largely the same, if bland and uninspired.

~~~
sdinsn
The "masterbrand" icon is not replacing Mozilla's logo. Mozilla's logo is not
changing.

~~~
imron
What a pity.

------
ainar-g
The System 1 Masterbrand Icon is GitLab[1].

The System 2 Masterbrand Icon is the flag of Phoenix, AZ[2].

Both seem very bland and generic to me. I wanted to like them, I really did,
but those are just... extremely unoriginal.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GitLab](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GitLab)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Phoenix](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Phoenix).

~~~
jccalhoun
I think the system 1 icon is too similar to gitlab which is a shame since I
like that one the best. I would like it as the default browser icon instead of
a round icon.

~~~
ucarion
Note that under both proposed systems, the icon of Firefox-the-browser would
remain the same. The "Gitlab-like" vulpine logo would be that of Mozilla,
whose logo is the "://" thing right now.

~~~
currysausage
That "://" logo would be one year old. [1] And yeah, it does look stale
already.

I appreciate thoughtful design, but IMO the frequency of redesigns of Mozilla
branding/subbranding/websites/subdomains only communicates a sense of vanity
at this point. The visual schizophrenia between trustworthy software developer
and NGO doesn't help.

[1]
[https://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/new_log...](https://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/new_logo_for_mozilla_by_johnson_banks.php)

~~~
pvinis
I think I might be the only person in the world that actually likes the
moz://a logo.. But like most people say here, I am not a fan of the new system
logos, but the system 2 browser logos are cool.

~~~
majewsky
Another fan of the moz://a logo here!

------
bscphil
Honestly, what makes a brand identity work is at least 50% longevity. One good
logo is better than 3 great ones over the course of a decade. If there's no
continuity, not only do consumers have to become reacquainted with the brand
(losing some established good will), you don't have any brand recognizablity
until it becomes well known again.

The Firefox globe is a good logo. Not only is it instantly recognizable,
there's a clear connection between the symbolism in the image and "Firefox". I
think the globe logo is also suggestive of international connectedness and
cooperation - Firefox is something that brings people together.

IMO all the suggested icons represent a change for the worse. Even the one
from System 1 most similar to the existing logo reduces the amount of detail
and makes it harder to quickly recognize the logo at a glance.

~~~
sjwright
Completely agree.

And it's worth adding that both of these proposed design options are _great
work_ in isolation; separate from any existing market concerns, these would
make for great logo systems.

But the biggest problem for any redesign is that the current Firefox globe is
just so damn good. It has been refined numerous times over the past decade but
iconographically—when viewed at a small size for short bursts of time—it has
barely changed since the original in 2003. Each refinement has simplified the
design to a point where further simplification is simply not justifiable for
reasons of aesthetics or utility.

Look at the progressive simplification of the QANTAS flying kangaroo logo over
the years. [0] The third-most recent logo is utterly iconic and timeless. The
second-most recent iteration teetered on the edge of a cliff of
oversimplification and gave the kangaroo clown feet. The current logo? The
only reason that it isn't an obvious trainwreck, the only reason isn't
immediately obvious that they've fallen off the cliff is because it evokes
memories of the older logos when the kangaroo actually looked like a kangaroo.
They've doubled down on the clown feet and given it a gradient that makes zero
sense. The overall shape is so abstract that it might as well be a boomerang-
like throwing or slicing implement. But it does look super modern.

[0] [http://mascola.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/line-
up-1200x8...](http://mascola.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/line-
up-1200x841-1024x718.png)

~~~
jazoom
Is this for real? I haven't noticed the newest 2 on planes yet. The third
newest is definitely where they should have stayed.

~~~
sjwright
It’s for real, and there aren’t many planes left with the older livery painted
on them. Most are either the newest or second-newest.

(I’m an infrequent observer though, I’m sure a planespotter can chime in with
more precise info.)

------
robotmay
The older I get, the more I hate the industry around "brand". Obviously it has
an effect, I get that, but my god the branding guys are so wanky about it.
They can go on for hours about stuff that literally no-one but branding guys
care about, and unlike techies they don't seem to have learnt how to summarise
and then shut up (because non-branding people, like non-techies, really don't
care). I don't remember it being this bad a decade ago, but I was only
starting out in the tech industry then so perhaps I just didn't see it.

Maybe it's a bit harsh to lump this blog post in with the stuff I'm
complaining about, but it doesn't help having daft phrases like "Do these
systems reinforce the speed, safety, reliability, wit, and innovation that
Firefox stands for?" (answer: no, they're small images).

I've reached a point where I just abhor marketing in general, and branding is
swiftly joining it on the pile at this rate. It was in hindsight a good idea
to go back to programming after getting my design degree!

~~~
maccard
> unlike techies they don't seem to have learnt how to summarise and then shut
> up

Have you seen a post on here about text editors, tabs v spaces or rust vs C++?
Or how about the weekly posts of "we rewrote our CRUD app from FOTM X to FOTM
Y and this is why it's awesome" ?

~~~
robotmay
Well to be fair this is really the target market for those sorts of posts and
discussions. Equally the same could be said of the Firefox blog post I guess,
that it was intended only for other branding people, and that by posting it
here it is outside of the interests of many people here (though as it was
addressed to the community I don't believe that to be the case). However when
branding guys write these sorts of posts, they very often write it as if
they're preaching to the unwashed masses.

Clearly everything that was before is now terrible, our new icons resemble the
very essence of our business/existence/the human condition, and we will deign
to allow you to experience it. Bonus points if they fit "growing the brand" in
there somewhere!

------
wvenable
"Say “Firefox” and most people think of a web browser on their laptop or
phone, period.... from easy screen-shotting and file sharing to innovative
ways to access the internet using voice and virtual reality, these tools will
help people be more efficient, safer, and in control of their time online."

Translation: They want to overload the Firefox name to the point where it's
totally meaningless. The success of the Firefox name is no doubt the reason
but this fails to recognize that's not how names work. This direction is
exactly the reason why Nintendo called their console "WiiU" and that turned
out about as well as this ultimately will.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Firefox being the name of a single
product. The entire underlying premise of this redesign is flawed.

"Firefox is where purpose meets performance."

The marketing direction here could not be less inspiring.

~~~
kijin
Exactly. This looks like yet another attempt to detach Firefox the Brand from
Firefox the Web Browser.

Mozilla has tried this a number of times already, and they fail spectacularly
every time. I wish they'd just own the fact that they're making a web browser,
and focus on making it the best web browser in the world. Not some generic
platform.

Purpose meets performance? WTF? It's so generic, it could be the tagline for
any automobile, sportswear, or study aid.

------
andrewmcwatters
I'd say neither are very good, and they lack the sophistication of brand
design history and why things are designed the way they are. I can tell these
were sketched and created by someone who has not studied iconography or
identity branding.

But why is this the case? What indicators signify this? Here's a basic test:
damage them.

Strip away the colors. Make them entirely flat. Can you still identify them?
Do they stand out after you've "damaged" the icon in any regard? It's just not
colorblindness: what about to a viewer who sees them as slightly blurred, can
you still recognize the brand? If you warp the logo, as if from a wrinkled
shirt, can you point out whose brand it is?

What about on the worn surface of a sticker on someone's MacBook? Someone
getting acetone on some branding materials?

Think about the branding of companies from the S&P500, when the light hits
cutouts of their icons, can you identify them from the shadows?

~~~
walrus01
If you want to see some truly amazing tongue-in-cheek corporate logo
rebranding, the Pepsi Gravitational Field:

[https://www.slideshare.net/tblogosphere/pepsi-
gravitational-...](https://www.slideshare.net/tblogosphere/pepsi-
gravitational-field)

~~~
jpatokal
That (amazing) doc is apparently not a parody, but a million dollars' worth of
deadly serious.

[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pepsis-nonsensical-logo-
redesig...](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pepsis-nonsensical-logo-redesign-
document-1-million-for-this/)

------
blt
I like the forward-looking fox face idea, but I would de-abstract it a little
bit. It's not cute anymore. It's the equivalent of the 1986 Prudential logo:
[https://www.ortnergraphics.com/designofthetimes/?p=285](https://www.ortnergraphics.com/designofthetimes/?p=285)

~~~
dingo_bat
That's a logo with a really strong idea behind it. Firefox doesn't seem to
have that much meaning behind its name.

------
titanix2
I can’t figure why companies and foundations waste money and designers time to
make new ugly logos when their current one are totally ok and well recognized.
This is even more ridiculous since Mozilla recently changed its logo for black
and white that is at the total opposite of what is shown in the blog post.

------
Avshalom
In addition to the fact that they'll all look old in three years: none of
these icons really leverage each other. If you saw the rocket ship and the
picture and the browser next to each other, nothing about them but the color
scheme would connect them.

------
tomc1985
Why? Whyyyyyyyyyyy?

Firefox the brand is fine. Someone needs to fire all these "business" people
at Mozilla.

------
jjordan
Firefox survives in spite of mismanagement and misapplication of resources
from the top down. For example, do they really need a lush waterfront office
in San Francisco?

~~~
JeremyBanks
If they want to hire some of the most capable browser developers, yes, it
probably helps enough to be worth it. They do have other offices.

------
rocky1138
Please don't change the logo. I love the Firefox logo the way it is. Don't
chase trends!

------
blub
At this point the only valuable things Mozilla still has, are the desktop
Firefox browser and their software developer team.

The rest of the organization consists of deadweight: making deals with
MrRobot, playing with adware, screwing up logos and testing silly IoT ideas.

------
OJFord
Firefox 'System 1 masterbrand' icon:
[https://blog.mozilla.org/opendesign/files/2018/07/Screen-
Sho...](https://blog.mozilla.org/opendesign/files/2018/07/Screen-
Shot-2018-07-26-at-11.27.44-PM.png)

Wileyfox logo:
[https://www.androidcentral.com/sites/androidcentral.com/file...](https://www.androidcentral.com/sites/androidcentral.com/files/styles/larger_wm_brw/public/article_images/2016/06/wf-
spark-9_0.jpg?itok=VzZB3HDS)

Bit similar?

------
notatoad
The fox chasing its tail is an iconic brand, and also an iconic color scheme.

I like the other icons that carry forward the Firefox color scheme to other
shapes (system 1, row 2), that still feels firefox-y without being Firefox,
and would be a good look for firefox affiliated products. When you get down to
the third row of system one, or the "master brand" icon, it loses both the
recognizable shape and the recognizable color scheme of the Firefox brand.

System #2 is just a mess. I don't even know what they're going for there.

------
ivanech
These logos looks really fresh right now, but I doubt they'll age gracefully.
The viridis/magma tones with gradients are a dead giveaway that a logo was
designed between 2015-present, and I suspect they'll look old-timey in a few
years. The current moz://a branding will likely age better.

------
UlisesAC4
Guys your opinions are great, I just hope that if you really care about FF
leave you comment in the blog post too.

------
amanzi
I just knew this was going to be bad based on the title of the article
alone... No need to change the current logo and even worse to consider
something so close to the Gitlab logo. Mozilla should be embarrassed.

------
pseudonym2
Now, organizations do change over time, as the people behind them change. But
I honestly cannot believe such a retarded move can be justified by the
ignorance of management and design. How can such a decision not be turned down
immediately? Erasing the iconic Firefox logo? The only brand asset they have?

Is the Mozilla organization infiltrated by saboteurs? I imagine a lot of
governments and corporations will be much happier when the last trully free
browser dies. Please fire those people.

------
EdiX
With the post about golang branding this is the second time in the space of a
few months that I read a branding post that sounds like a parody.

Look at the images at the bottom. Look at that hip guy wearing D&G sunglasses
and a hip, obviously photoshopped, firefox t-shirt. What is that? Is moz://a
making a web browser or a new fashion line? Did Mugatu make this post?

I liked it better when corporations kept their masterbranding habits private.

------
zimbatm
How many version of Firefox do they intend to ship? I don't get it... If they
are declination of Firefox, surely they should keep the fox in the picture no?

------
anfilt
No thanks on both of those...

------
haolez
System 2 without question.

------
brazzledazzle
Everyone is hating on these (like any and every logo redesign ever) but I just
want to know how I can get that blue tshirt.

------
edpichler
Beautiful logos, but I found no reason to "reset" the iconic fox. Is there a
problem with it I am not aware?

~~~
imron
It wasn't made by the current designers?

------
sexydefinesher
Please don't use the fox head icon. It is too similar to Gitlabs icon and
makes the overall aesthetic more silly.

------
erikbye
While evolving the brand, could you also add a dark/night mode to your
browser? Dictionary lookup would be good, too. There are no extensions
satisfying my requirements. Besides, I try to minimize the use of potentially
insecure and privacy-violating code.

------
classics2
How about just making a couple decent products and stop trying to be a million
other things nobody cares about?

------
timvisee
Although I like both icon sets, I really miss the colors of the current
Firefox logos. It seems that the new Firefox logos in these two new sets use
slightly different colors. I believe the current colors are much nicer with
great contrast, even though it's a small difference.

------
cmroanirgo
It looks like gitlab's logo...

------
nixpulvis
You guys are all missing the point... the new icon would be the one in the top
left of each of the grid of photos.

~~~
Avshalom
Which is an unnecessary change and an icon which looks nothing like the other
icons so still does nothing to offer "enough design tools to represent this
entire product family."

~~~
nixpulvis
Comparison: [https://imgur.com/a/x7yrzZx](https://imgur.com/a/x7yrzZx)

Is it the lack of an arm you don't like, or the fact it's more flat?

~~~
Avshalom
I don't exactly dislike the new browser logo (although I think going _less_
circular is dumb) so much as I think it's unnecessary.

My bigger issue is that the other 9 logos don't use the same design motif
beyond the colors.

The browser logo is a "fox" encircling the globe leaving a trail of fire, or
speed. This is perfectly fine for a global communications tool named firefox
that thinks "purpose meets performance" is it's brand identity.

but if you want to use the same design tools for the same brand identity: you
need to focus on things that imply performance which none of them do except
maybe a rocket. and you need them to evoke each other which, imagine for a
second those were all random colored and on your phone's home screen; what
about them is thematically unifying?

------
corv
This change was entirely unnecessary.

Good design is timeless, this is anything but.

Admittedly it doesn’t look terrible tho.

------
patrickg_zill
I'd keep the "quantum browser icon" Firefox . And bin the rest.

------
killjoywashere
Is it just me, or do the System 2 forms borrow from Opera's current O?

------
ScottAS
How can an open source company so blatantly rip off Gitlab? Total madness.

------
sverige
I don't care as long as Waterfox doesn't change its logo.

------
koboll
Both of these options are godawful, but that's the amateurishness I expected
from whatever design team came up with the horrendously terrible MDN redesign
last year.

------
nixpulvis
I for one really like the new logo.

------
a_imho
Foxshedding

------
DonHopkins
Maybe it's those sunglasses and that pose, but their new mascot in the douchey
dot com white dude costume sure nailed the "Chad" stereotype! Right out of
central casting, as Trump would say. Which episodes of Silicon Valley did he
play a Hoolie Brogrammer? ;)

------
walrus01
I would pay money for intentionally silly t-shirts with a badly drawn Firefox
logo and "mozzarella foxfire" on them.

