
Drop in foreign applicants worries U.S. engineering schools - kawera
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/02/drop-foreign-applicants-worries-us-engineering-schools
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yehi
It seams like they are trying so hard to blame Trump

> he and others suspect the cause is President Donald Trump’s anti-immigrant
> rhetoric during the campaign and his election,

But then they say things that counter the title

> engineering applications overall are up 3%

and then offer a different more logical theory that can explain it

> international students at public universities pay tuition rates that are
> much higher than for in-state students.

I wounder when applications have to be sent in, because Trumps temporary ban
on 7 countries only happened in January. Is there enough data from then until
now to make any sort of correlation between the ban and the amount of
applicants? During the campaign he was given an estimate of 0.1% chance of
winning. Also, the article wrote that in a school that specifies in oil, only
9% of the foreign applicants are from those Arab countries.

As someone not living in the US, planing on studying for a masters degree, I
barely even considered the US. Only the top schools offer funding that makes
tuition be next to nothing. Other than those, the unrealistic costs and other
issues that have been around with the US for more than one month make studying
in Europe much more appealing.

~~~
__derek__
It sounds like you're implying that the article blames the ban, which
contradicts the context around that first quote:

> Given the timing, he and others suspect the cause is President Donald
> Trump’s anti-immigrant rhetoric during the campaign and his election, rather
> than the White House’s 27 January travel ban against seven Muslim-majority
> countries

Many graduate programs have application deadlines in January, which would
leave sufficient time to consider Trump's immigration rhetoric after his
November victory.

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equalunique
Don't the disadvantaged youths who are already resident in underprivileged US
communities deserve priority over affluent foreigners?

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NTDF9
The rising cost of US education was already prohibitively expensive for people
of other countries (who suffer double whammy because of rising dollar against
their currencies).

Trumps uncertain strategies is just the nail in the coffin. Who wants to be a
student with insane debt and an uncertain future in the country they studied
in?

If I were a Canadian or Australian university, I would aggressively target
attracting bright kids from around the world. 5 years of such recruiting and
you start developing a reputation of being a hub for bright students.

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cylinder
More likely is the rising USD. Australia and Canada have cheaper fees, and
better pathways to permanent residency for some students. Also of note is
their universities are mostly in urban environments whereas in USA you're
usually in a small college town in the middle of nowhere. For a Chinese
student, living in a high-rise in Melbourne CBD is infinitely more preferable
and familiar than a dorm in Columbus Ohio.

~~~
__derek__
That's all been true for several years, no? It's odd that schools would have
seen a surge in international applicants over the last decade only to have the
trend weaken now.

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finid
Well, what did they expect?

A drop in foreign grad students will negatively impact the capacity of
professors to conduct research. That can't make America great, ever!

~~~
SlipperySlope
Given that much research is from American public financing, why pay foreign
grad students to perform research when salaries could be raised enough to
attract US resident students.

~~~
tagrun
Except it's not really attractive to many capable people in their right mind
who wouldn't wanna go down that rabbit hole called academia with low salaries,
uncertain future, require you to constantly look for a new job and move around
every 2-3 years (typically year-based contracts with 0 guarantees about the
next year), and _maybe_ a very small chance of getting a real job at the end
that doesn't have an expiration date from day 1 in your mid-40s with mediocre
salary comparable to what a junior dev would get in a small IT company. The
strain this puts on a family is a whole another dimension of the issue.

There is a reason why physics departments are populated with Chinese and
Indian researchers: it still beats the opportunities and life awaiting them at
home. For people in developed countries? Not so much.

BTW, an answer to your question is this brain drain:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_capital_flight](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_capital_flight)

