
Playdate – A New Handheld Gaming System - dombili
https://play.date/
======
keyle
Panic never stops surprising me. You'd think you had them figured out, they
keep jumping onto another shelf.

It must be fun to work at Panic. It reminds me of how tech companies were in
the 90s. Clear mission, but open horizon.

~~~
walkingolof
It is partially designed by
[https://teenage.engineering](https://teenage.engineering) of Sweden, they
apparently among other things came up with the crank.

~~~
cpach
I was really surprised to hear this. Although I live in Sweden I don’t think
I’ve ever heard about TE before. Usually Spotify and Klarna gets the majority
of the tech news coverage around here. TE seems like a really interesting
company!

~~~
bbx
Very well known in the music/synth world thanks to their OP-1, which I bought
2 weeks ago:
[https://teenage.engineering/products/op-1](https://teenage.engineering/products/op-1)

It looks like a toy, and kind of plays like one, but it's actually a
marvellous piece of gear, very capable musically, and providing a fantastic
user experience. There's just nothing else like it out there.

The company itself is very unique. Just look at what they came up with [1] for
OP-1 accessories: brick LEGO shafts, a bender, and a crank, like the one for
Coda.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COVNwdMld8Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COVNwdMld8Q)

~~~
FabHK
This OP-1 reminds me of the Casio VL-1 [1], made famous (in Germany at least)
by the pop band Trio in their NDW (Neue Deutsche Welle) song _Da Da Da_ [2]
[3].

I wonder whether that's accidental, or an homage.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_VL-1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_VL-1)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Da_Da_Da](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Da_Da_Da)

[3] for example about 1:25 into this video:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNYcviXK4rg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNYcviXK4rg)

~~~
joezydeco
I coveted mine as a kid. And it had a calculator! All 80s gadgets turned into
calculators!

------
bullfightonmars
It would be so awesome if this worked with Pico 8 or a similar fantasy
console. I will be much more interested if the barrier to entry for making my
own games is as close to zero as possible.

I want to make my own games for fun, but also to expose my son to the
creativity and exploration of programming.

A physical console would make this experience so much more real.

[https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php](https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php)

~~~
darzu
Have you seen [https://arcade.makecode.com](https://arcade.makecode.com) ?
It's a free, open source, web-based editor for making games, and you can
download games to a number of hardware boards, or play on your phone or any
web browser. The cheapest hardware right now is $25 from Adafruit [0], but
more hardware is coming out all the time.

Also this audience might be interested to know that soon there'll be Python
support in MakeCode. More details on our language toolchain here [1]

Disclosure: I work for MakeCode :)

[0]
[https://www.adafruit.com/product/3939](https://www.adafruit.com/product/3939)
[1] [https://makecode.com/language](https://makecode.com/language)

~~~
tyleo
This is awesome! Is MakeCode a subsidiary of Microsoft? It looks like it’s
based on some Microsoft tech similar to Google’s Blockly I hadn’t seen before.
I’m curious because I’m working on a product in this space.

~~~
darzu
Yeah, we're a team at MSFT (same org as VS Code). All* our code is open
source. We use Google Blockly, and we've made a number of contributions
upstream to them.

What's your product?

* Our server code isn't open source, but it's basically just a node app serving a SPA. Everything is client side. Works offline too.

~~~
tyleo
My product is called Devev. I moonlit the product for the past few years while
working at Microsoft. I quit about a month ago to get it over the finish line.
I'm still pre-launch but here are some images:
[https://imgur.com/a/zLS1g0t](https://imgur.com/a/zLS1g0t)

I worked on video games for the past few years and saw many less technical
colleagues empowered by tools like Unreal Engine's Blueprint
([https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-
us/Engine/Blueprints](https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-us/Engine/Blueprints)).
I thought that the same paradigm may apply more widely but the visual
languages used outside of games weren't really hitting the mark.

Devev is a framework for creating visual programming languages. They are
supported through extensions. For launch I'm working on an extension which
parses TS types and allows you to use the existing code in nodes. That's what
you'll see in my image above. This will allow early users to tap into existing
libraries published on NPM.

I don't expect much traction with the launch version and plan to target a
specific domain shortly after that. I'm leaning towards a build system where
you can capture your dependencies in a visual graph. One of the applications
I'd been thinking about was allowing users to build and share games or other
applications in a web-editor similar to Scratch.

Devev is also a JS SPA and the client editor uses Electron. The client editor
supports more features like multiple windows, editors panes and plugins.
Additionally the client can parse new Typescript files but not the SPA. For
the SPA to parse TS I'd need to deliver TSC over the web which I won't figure
out for V1.

~~~
darzu
This is really cool! I've often wondered if a Blueprint-like editting
experiences could be used more broadly. Looking forward to seeing this grow. I
think there is also great potential for a very approachable debugging
experience.

Targeting build systems seems like a great fit as well, since as you pointed
out the build DAG is naturally a graph.

When you mentioned games programming, I thought of Dream's visual programming:
[https://youtu.be/eMRp3QMAkz8?t=773](https://youtu.be/eMRp3QMAkz8?t=773)

I love the idea of using typescript types to define visual code atoms. We do a
very simple version of that to create our Blockly blocks, e.g. block
definition: [https://github.com/microsoft/pxt-
microbit/blob/master/libs/r...](https://github.com/microsoft/pxt-
microbit/blob/master/libs/radio/radio.ts#L88) although I'm sure you could take
that much farther.

We run TSC in the browser in a worker thread, here's an example, in case that
helps:
[https://github.com/microsoft/pxt/blob/master/pxtcompiler/emi...](https://github.com/microsoft/pxt/blob/master/pxtcompiler/emitter/driver.ts#L245)
We use TSC for typechecking and our own typescript compiler for compiling down
to ARM assembly.

~~~
tyleo
Thanks for the reply. If you have any ideas for potential use cases or want to
see a short demo of what I have running so far let me know if you'd like to
get in contact.

------
_bxg1
I personally _love_ weird single-purpose hardware. Unfortunately it tends not
to do very well commercially.

Anybody remember this guy?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiReader](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiReader)

~~~
Pils
When hardware is increasingly becoming just a way to interface with a larger
platform (IoT, game console subscription services, etc.), I think there will
be a certain nostalgia for more static, tactile and analog hardware. I collect
records, own a couple pocket operators, and buy physical books for similar
reasons.

Single-purpose hardware has identity. It has explicit purpose. If it is well-
designed, it has an interface that is intuitive while encouraging a limited
amount of experimentation. I think a lot of good software emulates these
properties, but often with the tradeoff of being less
extensible/integrable/power user friendly.

~~~
toper-centage
After entertaining the idea of getting a smartwatch for years but always
feeling unimpressed, I started carrying a dumb casio. There's something great
about machines that only do one or two tasks but do it very well. Look at
ebook readers. They are not _super_ popular, but they have a solid market.

~~~
rmellow
On this point, I just got a Withings Steel HR [1]: It's a classic analog
watch, with a sole extra function of measuring heartbeat and exercise on a
tiny LCD in the back of the watch face.

I love that it's purpose-specific and isn't gimmicky like smartwatches. This
also means the battery lasts about a month. Plus, it looks good.

[1] [https://www.withings.com/ca/en/steel-
hr](https://www.withings.com/ca/en/steel-hr)

------
emdowling
Not to discount the hardware, which looks absolutely beautiful, but what
strikes me the most is the business model.

A new game, every Monday, delivered wirelessly to your pocket.

What excites me about Playdate is that it is something only an outsider with
no attachments to existing business relationships could make.

Games released today are still encumbered by the regional and geographic
thinking of traditional software distribution. While Steam, the App Store, etc
have certainly democratised some aspects, they are still an exception to the
traditional model that generates the most revenue.

Episodic games tried to bring seasonality to gaming. That didn’t really work
(Episode 3 anyone?). Fortnite has been the most successful at it, but it is
still a AAA game attached to a big publisher. It’s the evolution of the old
model.

Playdate and Apple’s upcoming Arcade feel like the beginning of a new model
and that’s really, really exciting.

~~~
cloogshicer
I'm actually really dreading the Apple Arcade business model. The game
developers are compensated by time spent in their game. This means that,
similar to the current craze for open world games, shorter, more experimental
games will simply earn less. Thus, meaningful content will be stretched even
thinner to fill up more of the user's time. It's another nail in the coffin of
single player narrative experiences.

Streaming services, like Google's recently announced Stadia will probably have
similar compensation models.

~~~
munificent
A number of businesses have moved towards models where compensation is
directly tied to time spent consuming: Kindle pays authors by the page,
YouTube monetizes based on watch time.

I really think it harms the world by incentivizing creators to pad and fluff.
Dickens is great, but you can _really_ tell which of his works were published
serially, because it affected how he wrote.

At the same time, paying a flat amount for each created work incentivizes
creators to pump out a huge pile of small works. It's all singles and no
albums, which I also think is bad.

The programmer part of my brain wonders if you could solve this by simply
picking a function somewhere between O(n) (pay linearly by quantity consumed)
and O(1) (pay a fixed price for the whole thing). The obvious middle point is
O(log(n)).

I wonder how well it would work if creators were paid by time spent consuming
but with a function that offerred diminishing returns the larger the quantity
was?

~~~
cotelletta
In that case you incentivize sybil attacks, because publishing content across
multiple identities is more lucrative than a single one.

------
learc83
I refuse to believe that anyone came up with a crank based input system
organically.

Here's what I think happened. They decided that they wanted to make a low
power black and white game system for people to use while camping. They
decided that a crank charger was the best solution for this and went ahead
with development.

Further into the process they discovered that they couldn't get the power
budget low enough to make cranking a viable option, but they were too far
along to abandon it completely.

Then someone had a brilliant idea. _Lets make the crank an input system, and
develop crank based games._

~~~
moron4hire
I get the impression that you may not have played a lot of indie jam games. A
hand-crank is one of the _least_ weird things I've seen done. Hell, I once
made a game where the controller was two people arm wrestling each other. At
least a crank is practically usable.

As a self-described inveterate hobbyist, I completely understand looking
around a workshop full of parts and saying "gee, what could we do with that?"
And buying parts completely at random just to full future sessions of "Mystery
Meat Monday"

~~~
twic
Line Wobbler!
[https://wobblylabs.com/projects/wobbler](https://wobblylabs.com/projects/wobbler)

~~~
rgovostes
I played this at the Videogames exhibit at the Victoria and Albert Museum in
London. The breadth of visual effects they can achieve with just a
1-dimensional display is surprising.
[https://www.vam.ac.uk/exhibitions/videogames](https://www.vam.ac.uk/exhibitions/videogames)

------
quacher
From the Media Kit page, it looks like this device will use a Sharp _memory
LCD display_ (LS027B7DH01), which is similar to an e-ink display, but without
refresh issues. The same display as in the SwissMicros DM42 [1].

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ong91Ji3iDk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ong91Ji3iDk)

~~~
borgel
Same tech as the Pebbles too!

~~~
lostphilosopher
RIP. I miss Pebble.

------
slantyyz
It would be cool if the crank was also used to charge the device's battery.

~~~
marcinzm
Apparently the issue is torque for such things, the OLPC was originally going
to have a crank but the force was too much for the laptop body to take long
term.

~~~
sethish
It was removed because it wasn't going to generate enough power without
cranking it constantly. And the ergonomics weren't great for kids. They did
end up making an add-on crank at one point, but I don't think it ever was
widely distributed

------
centizen
Between Panic and Teenage Engineering I actually have faith in this being a
worthwhile endeavor. From the face of it I would expect this to go the way of
the Ouya, but with those two at the helm it could actually be something cool.
It's a breath of fresh air in an otherwise stagnant casual mobile gaming
space.

~~~
binaryblitz
> stagnant casual mobile gaming space

Between Switch and a lot of great mobile games I'm not sure how it's stagnant.

~~~
Zenbit_UX
Do people consider the switch a mobile platform? I mean it sort of is but...
It's really a console. Depends how you define mobile, if mobile === carry in
your pocket it's not. If mobile === independent from a TV then yes.

~~~
ninjin
In London, it does not appear to be treated like something mobile – but in
Tokyo it certainly is. You will see kids – mainly boys – huddle together
around Switch screens or playing using the wireless wherever you go in
suburban Tokyo.

~~~
m_t
> In London, it does not appear to be treated like something mobile

I saw a fair few people on the tube with their switch!

~~~
pushpop
I’m one of them

------
RandomGuyDTB
Where's the SDK? That's what I'm interested in. I don't wanna be limited to
just twelve games.

Edit- looks like an SDK exists, it's just not available quite yet:
[https://play.date/media/](https://play.date/media/)

~~~
armadsen
Chatter on Twitter from people at Panic indicates that you program it in Lua.
Seems like C might also be an option. There’s definitely going to be an SDK.

~~~
epse
Yeah but mac only

------
Reedx
This looks really cool and would be great for a fishing game.

I wonder about the lack of backlighting though? Hopefully the screen is much
better in this regard than the original non-backlit GBA, which was difficult
to see in low light conditions.

It was tricky getting light to hit the screen in just the right way:
[https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2001/06/13/lame-boy-
advan...](https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2001/06/13/lame-boy-advance)

~~~
fendy3002
If the crank orientation can be changed, it can act as ship's navigator wheel
and valve

~~~
RugnirViking
that... would be so cool. I'd love to see ship games, or a u-boat game. Heck
even operating the crank to elevate and/or turn an anti-aircraft gun or tank
turret

------
orliesaurus
This is gonna be fun: "Every Monday, via WiFi, owners receive a new game, the
notification light on top of the case blinking to announce its arrival.
Whenever you have five spare minutes, you’ll be able to reach into your own
shirt pocket, and make time for your Playdate."

------
lostmymind66
This is going to be a tough sell.

$150 dollars is very expensive for a portable game system, which will compete
with any tablet/phone that can play games that have better graphics and game
play.

The problem is that this is competing with entire ecosystems of games that
have been around for almost a decade.

~~~
PostOnce
Mobile games:

1] are infested with IAP/psycho crack time gates

2] cant cost more than a dollar or so, no one will buy them

3] have no buttons, and the number of games that work well without buttons is
few.

4] have a horrible reputation, people discount games just for being mobile

5] ridiculously fragmented hardware, who knows what screen size or device type
you're targeting if you develop for mobile?

6] are too high res. All new game systems are. Low res games with few buttons
can be developed cheaply and quickly (i.e., 20k instead of 5M)

I want some simple games with real buttons. I want to make some. I'll pay for
it. I think others will too.

I do think $150 is a little high, but that might also convey a sense of value,
rather than "another crappy emulator box thing"

~~~
abrugsch
Also check out the pimoroni kickstarter 32blit then. it's a bit cheaper than
the play date (but not by much and at full retail cost will be pretty much the
same) but has better scope and will be open source. it's not a Pi-in-a-box-
with-retropie but a STM32 microcontroller with a light OS/SDK layer on top. a
development toolchain that looks a lot like the editors for Pico-8

~~~
PostOnce
Sadly I think no one will ever pay money for games for an unadvertised, not-
sold-at-retail, open source game platform, which means people aren't going to
make quality games that cost money to develop, which means adoption will be
all the lower. So, that means it's not "viable" in a commercial sense. I would
rather like to run a sustainable business, which seems more plausible with the
playdate than anything else on the market outside nintendo/sony.

~~~
abrugsch
Sorry, I didn't infer that you were looking for a commercial sales games
platform. You are right about the 32blit, however I don't think you're right
about the playdate. If the 32blit is a niche product (which I'll admit it
definitely is) the playdate is being made as a niche within a niche product
and the numbers that are made in total will be a limiting factor. While the HN
crowd seem to be able to see this for what it is and mostly wouldn't think
twice about splunking 150 on this, I'm not getting the same feeling from any
other handheld/retro/modern gaming communities. a few collectors are going
"well it looks nice and well designed..." they're also the type who will buy
one just to sit it on a shelf with their other oddball gaming hardware. I
doubt the playdate will be any more viable to base a game business on than the
32blit, however from a different set of reasons, but along the same lines as
people who buy the Pocket Operators as neat gadgets, but have no intent to
actually make music with past the first few days of novelty. of course you
could try the Pico-8 games on itch.io route which is a well travelled path and
probably a much bigger target audience

------
salsadip
I am really excited about this. Firewatch is an amazing game with amazing
execution. Teenage Engineering's OP1 is supposedly really good hardware (from
what i heard and saw on youtube). Single purpose devices like this are more
enjoyable to use since you aren't always itching to use a different app etc.
The gradual "rollout" of games with a new one each week sounds like an
exciting thing to look forwards to every week actually! Although the price is
steep (for a student), i'm pretty sure i'll get it as this sounds like a well
crafted and enjoyable experience

------
steve_adams_86
I love this so much. I'm such a sucker for simple gaming mechanics, and I have
some faith that these specific people could make this work.

I know devices like this often fail to thrive in the market, but Teenage
Engineering has some experience making this sort of single-purpose device work
for customers. Panic seems to be very passionate, quality and delivery
oriented, and good at doing an exceptional job on familiar products. There
might be some potential here. I'd absolutely take my chances on this thing if
I could get my hands on one! My kids would love it too.

------
liquidzoot
Personally the association with Teenage Engineering makes me more concerned
that this will not be as exciting as it sounds. TE's Op-1 is a fine piece of
kit, but their recent offerings have been very underwhelming. Also the
placement of the crank and the form factor look very un-ergonomic.

~~~
bduerst
Can you comment on the Op-1 and what makes it great?

~~~
GuiA
The OP-1 is a well built, self contained musical instrument (sequencing,
synthesis/sampling, effects, mixing) with a very clean industrial design and
solid construction.

The main issues people have with it are 1) long-standing software bugs that
don’t get fixed 2) TE doesn’t seem that focused on producing it anymore- it
was out of stock for a couple years, and they raised the price significantly
on the new batches.

------
mastrsushi
This company seems well aware they aren't a match for Nintendo. Based on the
comments, Hacker News does not seem very aware.

Much like how Teenage Engineering's OP-1 is not competitively priced. This is
another example of an insightfully designed, well built product for adults.
Older millenials looking for a sentimental package so they can feel like it's
their 8th birthday again. They are reunboxing a gameboy color.

Their goal isn't to revitalize the dying, Nintendo/Smartphone dominated scene
of handheld gaming. Just a small company releasing a niche product in a low
quantity for a low risk profit.

No different than a craft brew or a local farmers market.

~~~
dbish
Agreed. I've been thinking about a market for small batch or boutique
electronics in various markets for a while. There is boutique furniture, small
batch alcohol, all sorts of small runs that would never compete with the big
guys but still make money and are fun for people to buy. More people should
get into it. The biggest barrier to entry may be that you have to self fund
for these smaller attempts.

~~~
jdietrich
There's a huge number of boutique products in music technology, particularly
synth modules and guitar effects pedals. They're relatively simple analog
products, so it's entirely feasible for one person to design and manufacture a
small batch in their bedroom without a big investment.

[https://www.modulargrid.net/e/modules/browser](https://www.modulargrid.net/e/modules/browser)

------
msvan
I think it's cool. I'm not that old, but games these days mostly seem to be
about squeezing every last dollar out of the consumer through shady means. I
think this is part of why I don't play video games anymore. It's nice to see
something different.

~~~
jarfil
$150 for what looks like 12 simple games isn't that much different.

~~~
msvan
1) I don't mind paying for games. I just don't want the game mechanics to be
designed to divert me towards spending more money on the game.

2) It's 12 games to start with. I'm sure there could be more later on.

~~~
wccrawford
They say that the production run will be very limited. Which means there isn't
much incentive for gamedevs to make more games later, as the audience can
never expand beyond the initial sales.

~~~
jamesgeck0
They've clarified that the _first_ production run is very limited. There will
be more production runs after that.

------
justfor1comment
Isn't $150 expensive? Or may be I am just too poor, to throw money at anyone
who asks for it.

~~~
fenwick67
It's expensive but not nearly as expensive as I would expect a Teenage
Engineering product to be. For example, their most famous product, the OP-1 (a
small digital synth with a small LCD screen) is $1300.

~~~
xfkechyk
To be fair, they also sell things like this for $59:
[https://teenage.engineering/store#po-20](https://teenage.engineering/store#po-20)

------
dangus
I'll give this idea one plus - it's a got a playful, fun design. I get the
idea of going simple and fun with this.

As a device to plunk down $150 on, no way.

\- If the crank is so fun, they didn't manage to show it.

\- Hopefully they'll show more games, because the promise of 12 black and
white games involving two buttons a crank isn't awe-inspiring.

\- The 2DS is the same price and is vastly more powerful and capable.
Obviously they're going for simplicity and quirkiness but objectively it's
just a real hard sell here.

\- Nintendo is rumored to be making a cheaper more portable Switch along with
a Switch Pro this year, and I bet that cheap one is going to be $200.

I just think the only "why" of this thing is "because we could." That's
totally okay, but I'd be shocked if this was any more than a limited run item,
and even more shocked if anything beyond those initial games ever make it to
the platform.

~~~
cormacrelf
Don't be quick to dismiss a physical control from Teenage Engineering. Those
Swedes are geniuses. Have you seen the OP-1? They are masters of constraints
that push creativity along. I have no doubt they can make a crank fun.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z4hoazra_g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z4hoazra_g)

~~~
acomjean
Teenage engineering does make a handheld musical toy thing. I have a couple.
They are very bare bones music calculator-sequencer things.

They're called "pocket operators". Oddly fun to make beats on.

[https://teenage.engineering/products/po](https://teenage.engineering/products/po)

This one has some better pictures and soundcloud audio.

[https://www.engadget.com/2015/04/22/teenage-engineering-
pock...](https://www.engadget.com/2015/04/22/teenage-engineering-pocket-
operators-irl/)

youtube has a lot on these little things.

------
umvi
Love the compliant mechanism buttons

(I just recently learned about compliant mechanisms -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97t7Xj_iBv0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97t7Xj_iBv0))

~~~
thih9
Wikipedia link:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compliant_mechanism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compliant_mechanism)
.

------
Causality1
Is this cute? Yeah, absolutely, but there are actually a lot of cute little
handheld gaming devices just like it, except they have nicer screens and don't
cost $150.

Like the Bitboy, Pixel Classic, PocketGo, Pocket Sprite. Even the Micro Arcade
series which are credit card sized single-game handheld with full color
screens.

~~~
nickloewen
Those all appear to either emulate other consoles, or come with games built-
in, though. This seems to be closer to the MakeCode consoles discussed
elsewhere in these comments, since it sounds like it will allow you to make
your own games for it (although it's not clear yet how easy that will be).

In that respect, it seems fairly unique to me, if only because it is
beautifully designed and polished. It seems like the other options for making
your own handheld games are either a bit clunky (eg Adafruit's PyGamers) or
require quite a lot of know-how and effort (eg Gameboy or DS homebrew).

I hope that this will result in a bunch of new high-quality indie games. It
seems that people are unlikely to invest a lot of effort in making spectacular
games for the PyGamer, because the audience is small... Nintendo-handheld
homebrew has the potential for a larger audience, but requires so much work
that I imagine a lot of potential creators are dissuaded.

I'm on the lookout for a shiny indie-friendly portable that's easy to develop
for, because I think that could lead to some exciting new things. Maybe this
is it.

~~~
Causality1
How do you know any of that? There's no photos on the site to indicate how
polished it is, no mention of being able to run homebrew on it.

~~~
nickloewen
That’s fair, I don’t know for sure (hence “I hope...”).

I think shininess is fairly likely, because they are collaborating with
Teenage Engineering, who have a reputation for making nice things like the
OP-1.

Homebrew is much more questionable. On their “media” page they imply that an
SDK is forthcoming, but they certaibly don’t make it as clear as I would like.

At any rate, the point I was going for was less that I am 100% behind this
gadget, and more that I think there is room for more options in this realm,
and this ticks at least some of my boxes.

~~~
abrugsch
pimoroni 32blit may well be everything you described... easy to develop for
(LUA or C++, comes with free assets and tutorials) Nicely designed (ok, it's
not finely CNC'd aluminium but it looks a lot nicer than most of the chinesium
or other indie-cades out there) and open source - they've said the toolchain
will run on linux too (I specifically asked)

------
14
My feelings are not positive on this one. Trying to be for the sake of the
guys making this but here is my problem...besides being very let down that the
crank has nothing to do with charging, the price is just too much. Canadian
here so 150USD is just over 200$CAD. For 200$ I can very easily pick up a used
ipad or iphone and my kids would love to have either one of those. They play
lots of games, they watch videos, they surf the internet, they make video
calls, and 100 other uses I am sure. So though this device might be cool, it
would be a pretty hard sell for me and my kids. The value just doesn't seem to
be worth it.

~~~
m1aw
Your kids aren't the target market. This is for a young or older adult who has
been into gaming his entire life and wants to pay a premium for a very well
game (hopefully) device with can offer a unique experience. It's somewhat of a
novelty item, but I see there's definitely a market for it.

------
duxup
I love seeing products like this, but I fear 150 is a bit beyond the impulse
buy price that probably is needed to get big sales.

Having said that it looks neat.

~~~
huhtenberg
The audience with required cash reserves _is_ there. It just that it has
higher standards and needs to see consistently glowing stream of reviews to
trigger an impulse buy.

Not impossible by any means, but still rather unlikely.

------
logicprog
I'm really excited about this. I've always kind of wanted Teenage Engineering
tech because low-fi, tactile, single purpose devices always appeal to me, but
I seem to have anti-musical ability so couldn't justify one. This is something
I could actually use and enjoy, and I would love to take a crack at developing
for it.

------
gricardo99
Reminds me of Ouya[1], which was $99 console and I think did not have much
luck as a gaming platform.

1 - [https://www.ouya.tv/](https://www.ouya.tv/)

~~~
alphast0rm
Ouya is reaching its end of life on June 25th, 2019. [1]

[1] [https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/22/seven-years-later-the-
ouya...](https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/22/seven-years-later-the-ouya-is-dead-
for-real/)

------
nathanvanfleet
Man they worked with Teenage Engineering for this? That's a pretty incredible
team. I am amazed.

------
tein
I dont know how much it costs to make specialized hardware. But i think there
was a missed oportunity in cartridge based handhelds. There were a couple of
games for GB,GBA and DS that had gimmicky controls that came from the
cartridge. As the gyroscope for Yoshi Tipsy Turvy, Wario Ware Twisted and
Kirby Tilt n Tumble. Another one was Guitar Hero for the DS and i think there
was one with a light sensor for the GB? This feels like it has the same
spirit. Wish them good luck.

~~~
new4thaccount
Don't forget "Boktai The Sun is in Your Hands" for GBA.

It came with a solar sensor on the cartridge that required the gamer to go
outside to charge their solar gun in order to kill vampires. Very cool, but it
grew annoying fast.

------
toastking
The crank is really interesting. It's such an off the wall choice for a user
interface. It will be cool to see how developers take advantage of it.

~~~
favadi
I don't see how it is better than a traditional joystick. And I think it might
easily got broken.

~~~
egypturnash
It's in addition to a d-pad and two buttons.

~~~
favadi
well, most modern controller has joysticks in addition to d-pad and buttons
too. It doesn't invalidate my point.

------
russellbeattie
This is interesting, but I can think of lots of things I'd put on the side of
the device to make it unique besides a crank. It's an oddly specific way to
provide analog and/or constant input (if it does indeed crank 360 degrees)
from the player. An actual analog stick? A dial? A trigger? A switch lever? A
touch sensitive pad? A trackball?

Maybe these guys are really into fishing?

~~~
781
The crank is all about "hipster" and "conversation starter". You're supposed
to look like a weirdo cranking that, thus be super-cool.

~~~
beenBoutIT
Hipster couples everywhere will have the crank to thank for bolstering their
courage up to a level where it was possible for them to talk to one another.
Eventually it will come to be viewed as an integral part of the tragic grand
hipster narrative. That's the idea anyway.

------
djfergus
What a fascinating concept. Makes me feel out of touch with consumers these
days, I'd have imagined the appeal of this would be very low but since the
Panic team has a great track record and volume manufacturing is not cheap I
guess they have assessed their demand.

I'm curious who is buying this instead of e.g. a GPD XD (full android
clamshell with dedicated game controls).

~~~
nathan_f77
I just had a look at the GPD XD website [1], and my first impression is that
the design looks a bit cheap and tacky. I really like the look of this
playdate console, and I'm sure it feels great to hold and use.

I also don't want to spend my time wading through thousands (maybe millions)
of games. The free ones are usually bad, and the good ones come with a ton of
ads or in-app purchases. It's just exhausting. I'm still looking for a nice
iOS game similar to "Raptor: Call of the Shadows" \- just a vertical scrolling
game where you can complete levels, upgrade your ship and weapons, beat
bosses, etc. I've tried a few different games, but I still haven't been able
to find one where I can just pay $20 and own the full game (with no more
nagging, advertising, or pay-to-play features.)

I like the idea that they're just going to send a few games, and release one
per week. It sounds nice to not have to make any choices, and just enjoy the
full curated experience.

I don't know if I'll get one, but those are the reasons why I would consider
it. I've also been thinking about a Nintendo Switch, but to be honest I'm not
much of a gamer.

[1] [https://www.gpdxd.com](https://www.gpdxd.com)

------
100pctremote
I knew Teenage Engineering had something to do with this on first sight.

------
jamilbk
This. So much this.

There’s much to be said about a handheld gaming device that isn’t constantly
distracting you with notifications and alerts. My iPhone constantly teeters
between Do Not Disturb and full-on ring volume.

Looking forward to mandatory immersion in the art, story, and gameplay of a
dedicated handheld gaming device, a la the original Gameboy.

------
nathanvanfleet
I have a bunch of Teenage Engineerings Pocket Operators. I definitely see this
as something very similar. It will probably be surprisingly powerful as a
platform, but still not going to be trying to compete with the Switch. They'll
concentrate on making a fun experience over pushing the boundaries of
technology.

------
vlunkr
This looks pretty cool! There have been some horribly misguided niche consoles
lately, (see the Amico), this one looks great by comparison. I can see it
working as kind of a novelty product. I think the price point is a little
high, since it's close to Nintendo handheld prices.

~~~
crooked-v
The going rate for a used 3DS XL is about $110.

------
netwanderer3
Initially I thought it was just another Gameboy imitation, but a crank? Wow,
that would add a whole new dimension to it. At this stage of the gaming
industry when everybody keeps making very similar games and products, any
unconventional creative ideas are more than welcomed!

------
gridlockd
I like the idea of having weird hardware like this produced. I can see it
becoming a collectible. I don't _love_ it though.

I'm curious though, did someone see this and _really_ want it?

------
sexyflanders
Design wise this looks similar to something teenage engineering would make.
Which I think is cool, I like their stuff. Specifically the op1 with the hand
crank functionality

~~~
kraftman
"By the way, the crank came from our friends at Teenage Engineering. They were
our partners for Playdate’s design. Isn’t it nice?"

------
TehCorwiz
This looks neat. It reminds me of what you might get if Nintendo built the
GameBoy today with similar tech constraints (BW screen, only two buttons,
motion controls, etc.)

------
joshstrange
Hmm, I was expecting this to be like the PGS and friends kickstarter scams but
it's by Panic which I respect very much. I've used almost everything they've
made and I've played Firewatch (Great story, not really a game as much as a
choose-your-own-adventure-story but your choices don't matter).

I'm probably not going to be buying this day 1 but this is very interesting
and if anyone can do it Panic can. Best of luck to them!

------
seanmcdirmid
I'm wondering if that crank would work for a leftie?

~~~
jolmg
If it was a problem, wouldn't game controllers in general be a problem?
There's always the assumption that left things (buttons, joysticks, etc.) are
for movement and right things are for actions. Would it be better for a leftie
if there were mirrored versions of game controllers?

~~~
seanmcdirmid
You can get used to a game controller, or well, most of us do eventually. At
anyrate, you can find left handed game controllers on the market.

But that is a crank, it requires a bit more dexterity, like holding a pen.

~~~
beenBoutIT
That crank better be detachable in a slick way that keeps it from
inadvertently popping out constantly or it's going to annoy the hell out of
anyone who isn't a hardcore fan of the crank-based game genre. IRL it's
probably not detachable and it's going to jangle around and annoy while
gradually self-desructing in a way that leaves it useless yet permanently
attached/annoying.

~~~
frosted-flakes
It folds into the side. That's why there's a hole.

------
_Codemonkeyism
I appreciate everything Panic has done, and how they pushed apps to a higher
UI and innovation level. I probably will get a Playdate.

The first handheld I've owned was a Greenhouse G&W. I do wish to get back the
simplicity and joy of games from that area.

I don't like the language of the page though, e.g.

"we hope you can’t wait to unwrap your gift."

A gift which I've paid $149 to you? My understanding of gift is different than
that of Panic I assume.

------
RugnirViking
Realistically, this thing is going to live and die based on 1) how good these
games are and 2) who gets in on the initial batch

if the right people get their hands on these (i'm thinking influencers, game
critics, but the kind of people who are receptive to new ideas and) and the
games are worth playing, it could become a must-have item.

If either of these fail, it will fall into relative obscurity, as these
products usually do

------
z3t4
It would be cool if the 3d model was also an emulator.

------
jchampem
Pimorini (I think they are quite famous as Raspberry Pis retailers in Europe)
recently started a kickstarter for another handheld console:
[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pimoroni/32blit-
retro-i...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pimoroni/32blit-retro-
inspired-handheld-with-open-source-fi)

~~~
naraic0o
i don't like that these devices don't use any sort of graphics accelerators
though. that seems to be the most "fun" part of programming the retro
architectures these things are inspired by. it's a pity there isn't any market
for such chips anymore. i guess an FPGA is an option.

------
gvand
I would be VERY interested in a VERY detailed description of how they, as a
software company, handled this hardware project.

------
msie
I hope this becomes popular. Unlike iOS and Android it has physical controls
and hopefully I can develop for it cheaply.

------
hbcondo714
Mark Zuckerberg apparently tried to buy Panic, the creator of Playdate

[https://www.engadget.com/2019/05/24/panic-playdate-
facebook-...](https://www.engadget.com/2019/05/24/panic-playdate-facebook-
offer/)

~~~
andrekandre
＞ He didn't want to be part of another Silicon Valley software company gobbled
up by a giant.

this is why i love panic, they are independent, creative and have genuine
passion for their art... i’d love someday to start a company like that

and playdate, reading that intro page made me genuinely smile, what a cool
product idea

------
shearskill
I want to be mad that I can’t play Firewatch on my phone but I hope I can
never play it on my phone.

------
RenRav
Not too sold on the price but it will download 12 games every month for you,
if I read that correctly. That is pretty cool. The crank mechanism seems silly
but with some creativity perhaps you can do interesting things with it, like
fishing.

~~~
speps
I thought it was for charging it on the go. Is it just an input knob?

~~~
eridius
It's an input device. Charging is presumably over USB.

------
stc043
Check out bittboy ([http://bittboy.com](http://bittboy.com)), a similar
handheld console which has emulators for NES, SNES and GB/GBA/GBC games , at
less than 1/3rd of the price.

------
tty2300
Its interesting but for these kinds of projects its the software library that
will mean everything to how well this goes. I'm not going to spend that much
for a device to play tech demos when I already have handheld gaming devices

------
habosa
This is really cool. I might buy one if I am feeling impulsive. I love
purpose-built hardware like this!

Would feel more comfortable if I knew they'd allow people to build and
sideload games though.

Aside: this website is _very_ choppy in Chrome on Ubuntu.

------
stesch
They make really good PR. Twitter was exploding yesterday. The topic "Software
Development" on the original Twitter client only had tweets about this gaming
system. (And not a single half naked cosplayer programmer.)

------
cftorres
It has a really high price for just a crank and a good design. I think that I
could wait for the day games are launched, perhaps they will be long enough
and entertaining. I still dont have much expectations.

------
Impossible
It looks cool, I was at Funomena when Crankin was being developed and helped
Akira Thompson with some Lua code, didn't realize it would end up on a new
handheld 3 years later :).

------
Laptop_Gaming
[https://gamalaptop.vn/laptop-gaming-cu-gia-re-
tphcm/](https://gamalaptop.vn/laptop-gaming-cu-gia-re-tphcm/)

------
Reason077
It's a smart looking design. But that recessed speaker grille is going to fill
up with fluff and grime pretty quickly. Especially if kids use it!

------
jedimastert
I could smell some Teenage Engineering influence when I first saw it. That
being said, I do kinda want one. It's a neat little bit of design.

------
Angostura
This is so wird, I just want one to support the weirdness A new game every
week? Presumably subscription-based - which I'm less wild about.

------
m3kw9
The crank must be an analog of the Apple Watch crown.

------
azhenley
If anyone wants to do a startup together designing a cheap, retro-style
handheld game console with an open app store, please email me :)

------
someexgamedev
This will sell to indie gamedev scenesters and they have the perfect designer
roster to hit that audience.

From a commercial success standpoint, I'm bearish. Common pitfall in comedy is
to make jokes for comedians. This scene has a similar problem where they love
to make games for game devs.

~~~
rincebrain
I don't think they intended for it as anything but not a substantial cost loss
because they wanted to make it, not because they wanted a 3DS IT PRINTS MONEY
GIF of it, so that's probably a feature, not a bug.

------
html5web
Panic team is amazing. Neat product. You guys combined virtual gaming with
physical elements. Congratulations!!!

------
cjdaly
sort of related to this (indie gaming hardware), I recently got the Adafruit
PyBadge. You can program it with CircuitPython, Arduino or MakeCode (a
microsoft visual coding IDE). fun if your idea of fun is making the game and
then playing it, or figuring out how to port some existing game.

~~~
buzzert
Even closer to this is the Arduboy[1]. I've had one for a while and even wrote
a Tetris game for it. It's SO tiny and light!

[1] [https://arduboy.com/](https://arduboy.com/)

------
azhenley
This looks awesome. I wish I had made it.

Makes me wish I had finished writing my book on making your own video game
console!

------
Laptop_Gaming
Strange. I've found the opposite to be true. They do a pretty decent job
explaining why you need a web server and how to make a basic one. Once it's
set up, there are tons of examples and resources to look at.
[https://gamalaptop.vn/laptop-gaming/](https://gamalaptop.vn/laptop-gaming/)

------
msie
The crank is cute but I want a paddle controller for games like Tempest and
Pong.

------
throwaway231892
New poster child for not doing product naming and ergonomics by committee.

------
foxhop
I like the crank idea only if it also charges the battery as you play.

~~~
chrisseaton
Have you ever tried a hand-cranked radio or torch? They need a _lot_ of
cranking. I'm not sure it would be tractable.

~~~
p1necone
This kinda looks like it has an epaper screen? Or at least a simple black and
white lcd. Potentially uses a lot less power than a torch.

~~~
soulofmischief
At that price, it likely wouldn't be e-ink. But even more so, the framerate of
e-ink tech currently on the market isn't suitable for moving graphics. There
are a few companies working on different ways to solve this problem but the
existing e-ink patent is quite a thorn.

------
stackzero
Why the name playdate?

~~~
simongr3dal
It's part of the "gimmick".

After the device is released and is available for sale, a new game will be
released for it and downloaded automatically each week for the first 12 weeks,
when downloaded a little light will light up and you can have small play date
with the Playdate.

~~~
beenBoutIT
That's IMO the only clever part of the device, the syncing up with users
everywhere anticipating the minute a new game drops. It'll work great until a
game fails to resonate with any particular user at which point negative
sentiment and disappointment get attached to the device.

~~~
simongr3dal
I'm sure it's a fun challenge for the game designers with the limited screen,
and a crank mechanic.

But I'm really hoping they are also able to make some games with some depth
and replay value to them for the players, a la the early mario, spyro, sonic
or pokemon games.

------
mesozoic
Not even April 1st.

------
max0563
I think they might have just revolutionized gaming.

~~~
quickthrower2
I can't wait for my turn.

~~~
max0563
Me too. I really like their spin on the Gameboy.

~~~
quickthrower2
Yeah but they are reinventing the wheel

------
ninjakeyboard
Teenage Engineering make really cool stuff too! :)

------
duncancarroll
Wow! I was not expecting this at all. Exciting!

------
thebiglebrewski
Everything Teenage Engineering touches is gold

------
wvenable
Image links are broken for me.

------
avinium
Super ambitious, but I love/respect the fact that there's still people out
there driven by sheer passion and originality, rather than money.

I've ranted many a times about the hypercapitalistic race-to-the-bottom
approach that Valve/Epic/etc are taking. This is a breath of fresh air and
they have my full support.

------
mikorym
Can the crank charge the battery?

------
anotheryou
a crank but no analog stick? bold

------
trashcan_
why is every comment saying how cool this thing is?

~~~
BsMeter
Surely HN has been taken over by bots. 800+ up-votes for some cheap looking
dysfunctional "gaming console" that has no real hardware available yet. And
there is nothing exciting or cool about it.

Some days I think the time of HN has passed because of posts like these being
up-voted that much.

------
filoleg
Slightly off-topic, but the website design looks like a worse version of
Teenage Engineering website
([https://teenage.engineering/products/po](https://teenage.engineering/products/po))
with larger font size (a bit too large imo). Not dissing the website though,
it isn't that bad overall, just thought it was interesting, since I haven't
seen many others attempting that.

EDIT: after a closer look at the page, I realized that they explicitly
mentioned partnering with Teenage Engineering on parts of the device design.
The website resemblance makes more sense now :)

~~~
andrewstuart
I like the visual style.

~~~
underwater
It mostly works well on mobile, but the layout results in hilariously big
images on desktop.

The top unit could benefit from scaling to the viewport height. Right now the
grey section is 100% the height of the viewport, meaning that scrolling is not
an obvious interaction. Having some yellow and text peeking up could make that
more intuitive.

~~~
13rac1
It is ridiculous on a 2560x1440 screen. It seems to be designed for a "10ft
television" view distance. Much better at 25% zoom.

~~~
p1necone
Not sure why you're being downvoted. The site is awful on desktop - definitely
designed for mobile alone. Which seems strange - considering the target market
for this.

