
Ask HN: Why isn't there an open-source FPGA? - orndorffgrant
I&#x27;m asking about the FPGA itself - not boards or IP cores or toolchain.<p>The only thing I&#x27;ve found while searching is <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;git.slaanesh.org&#x2F;kfpga&#x2F;kfpga" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;git.slaanesh.org&#x2F;kfpga&#x2F;kfpga</a> which is still very new and small, but inspiring.<p>What are the major hurdles that have prevented people from creating an open source FPGA design?
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s1dev
CPUs you can implement on FPGAs or something else whereas FPGAs are really
only useful if you can get it made. Getting the design rules from a foundry
usually involves an NDA and you will need (proprietary) EDA tools.

Also the utility of open source CPU cores is much higher than an open source
FPGA since you're not going to be able to customize it anyway because of mask
costs.

~~~
LargoLasskhyfv
I hear that repeated over and over. And while it is true _now_ , it could
change if concepts like

[1] [https://www.yokogawa.com/yjp/solutions/solutions/minimal-
fab...](https://www.yokogawa.com/yjp/solutions/solutions/minimal-fab/)

catch up a little technology-wise, and take hold.

edit:

[2] [http://pmt-minimalfoundry.businesscatalyst.com/minimal-
found...](http://pmt-minimalfoundry.businesscatalyst.com/minimal-foundry.html)

I see they have a branch office in Moscow now

[3] [https://minimalfab.eu/](https://minimalfab.eu/)

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nickmqb
This FPGA is not open source by design, but this project seems fairly
complete: [http://www.clifford.at/icestorm/](http://www.clifford.at/icestorm/)
"Project IceStorm aims at documenting the bitstream format of Lattice iCE40
FPGAs and providing simple tools for analyzing and creating bitstream files."

Lattice (the FPGA's manufacturer) seems open-minded regarding such efforts:
[https://twitter.com/latticesemi/status/1269115302140231682](https://twitter.com/latticesemi/status/1269115302140231682)

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zw123456
I like the idea. I do a lot of FPGA work and have often thought the same
thing. The link is very interesting. I think part of the challenge would be
how do you get the foundry capacity to actually produce it. And how to pay for
that, who will buy it etc. etc. Those questions are beyond me, but I do think
that if it were to get momentum there could be a lot of interest.

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redis_mlc
Xilinx has like 2,000 FPGA patents, proudly displayed on plaques on their
cafeteria wall.

So you would have to navigate around those.

~~~
LargoLasskhyfv
They were founded 36 years ago. How long do they last? How many of them are
meanwhile void?

~~~
redis_mlc
It's a valid question.

The current duration is 20 years.

But companies with sophisticated IP lawyers, like FPGA vendors, can create
"evergreen" patents by tweaking existing ones to last 100 years or more.

Also, small companies generally cannot afford patent litigation, so most fold
after just receiving a letter.

Hollywood is located in LA because East Coast companies didn't want to pay
Edison patent royalties. Moving to another state is less likely to work these
days.

The laser patent killed commercial laser products until it expired, since
nobody wanted to pay the 4% or 5% royalty. (I'm guessing that it wasn't that
one royalty that was the concern, but the likely additional demands that would
come out of the woodwork.)

Same thing with the Wright Brothers airplane patents. It took war for the
Wright Brothers and Curtis to work together, which is why Europe got so far
ahead of the US in aviation at the time.

~~~
TomMarius
> Moving to another state is less likely to work these days

Would these patents apply in the EU?

~~~
redis_mlc
The short answer is not automatically, but there is a streamlined process for
filing patents in the US and then the EU.

[https://www.epo.org/](https://www.epo.org/)

I suspect that US evergreen patents would be annoying to the EU if pointed
out, though.

I don't really get the desire to make your own FPGAs though. They will
probably end up being slower and more expensive. It makes more sense to me to
work on toolchain software.

