
Fans Watch Taylor Swift. Economists Watch the Fans - kawera
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-08-29/fans-watch-taylor-swift-economists-watch-the-fans
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jedberg
Nine Inch Nails solved the scalping problem, and I'm not sure why their
solution isn't more widely adopted.

You had to give your name to buy the ticket, and you could only buy two. Then
upon arrival at the venue, you got in line, went through security, and _then_
went to will call. At that point you couldn't leave the venue. You never even
took the ticket. Will call handed it to the ticket taker who let you in.

So if you were a scalper, the best you could do is scalp your second ticket
and then attend the concert with the person you just screwed with an
overpriced ticket.

~~~
pdog
_> ...person you just screwed with an overpriced ticket._

This is also known as an "adult freely and willingly participating in a
voluntary transaction."

~~~
jedberg
Sure, they participated willingly, but they aren't happy about paying an
unnecessary middleman who adds cost but provides no value.

Hence the "screwing" part.

~~~
zzalpha
Well, that's not strictly true.

By raising the price of tickets to what the market will bear, they force some
people out of the marketplace, increasing availability of tickets for those
who can afford them.

And from the perspective of the artist and Ticketmaster, they eliminate some
of the risk of tickets going unsold.

Of course, it's understandably seen as very unfair (goodness knows I've missed
out on shows I wanted to go to because scalpers raised the price beyond the
level I was willing to pay), but I wouldn't say it has no value.

~~~
notlefthanded
I can't help but think that if an IPO went like this, and the share price
ballooned after colo'd bots scooped up the cheap shares, people would be up in
arms about the company leaving money on the table. Just the people in this
case are the artists, who traditionally get screwed anyways. And ticketmaster
doesn't have the same incentive for accurate pricing. Also there's social
stigma of money being the gatekeeper to fun/cultural things.

~~~
zzalpha
Why do you believe money is being left on the table?

TBH, I've never really understood this argument. Unless the argument is that
the artist is being _forced_ to set a lower face value, if all the tickets are
sold at face value and scalped, the artist is getting exactly what they would
have budgeted for.

So, are you saying the artist is being forced to sell the tickets at a price
that's below what the market will bear?

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vivekd
I can't remember the post, but I remember a while back there was a guy on here
who said he used to work as a scalper. I remember he said that despite talking
about attempts to get rid of scalpers, the reality is that ticket master and
other outlets loved scalpers and worked with them. This is because it's in the
interest of the ticket vendor to work with scalpers, because scalpers assume
the risk of non-selling tickets.

If it weren't' for scalpers, the vendor would take a loss on any tickets that
did not sell. Because scalpers exist, they ensure that the tickets get sold
out and then the scalper takes the risk of not being able to sell the tickets.

Ticketmaster and other vendors will never get rid of scalpers because they
have a very strong financial incentive not to.

~~~
5555624
This on?
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13643045](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13643045)

~~~
vivekd
Yes, that's amazing that you were able to find it.

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cableshaft
Scalpers and bots are such a big problem. The recent Super NES pre-orders were
a total catastrophe because the scalper bots overloaded the servers and took
down/glitched out Target, Walmart, Gamestop and Best Buy's online stores, the
pre-orders sold in seconds, pretty much the only people who got pre-orders
were scalpers, and they immediately turned around and posted their pre-orders
on eBay for 3x the price.

I'm open to any attempts to try to limit rewarding these jerks for bad
behavior, and hopefully it'll convince others to also find creative ways to
limit them (like Nintendo. Mainly Nintendo).

~~~
ericabiz
In person is the solution in this case, I think. I got on GameStop's text list
and it went off while I was in the car. My SO and I immediately stopped at the
first GameStop we could find and pre-ordered 2. Other people came in and they
were all (as far as I could tell) Nintendo fans and not scalpers.

We plan to keep 1 and use the other one as a contest prize that we'll run on
Facebook once we're able to pick them up in a few weeks. We've already pre-
paid and have our receipts (or "golden tickets" as the GameStop cashier called
them!) The receipts have our names on them so we are the only ones allowed to
pick them up.

I hope stores do more of that in the future.

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mynegation
After the news like that Black Mirror episode s03e01 "Nosedive" does not seem
that far-fetched.

~~~
jitix
That episode's premise is probably the most plausible one in near future. Even
if public services arent tied to such scores there's nothing preventing one
private company to use a score from another private company to deny you
service. I know this is how credit scores work currently in the US (which I
find extremely strange and disturbing as an immigrant) but maintaining social
scores is much more dangerous than credit scores.

~~~
pavanred
Probably less plausible than you think. What incentive would company X have in
denying service to someone based on unrelated parameters? That's just going to
reduce business and profits. With credit scores, its a bit different. Credit
scores are a risk profile of the consumer, so if a company doesn't deny
service/charge higher interest to a consumer with low credit scores, it
potentially stands to loose money. Besides, this is regulated, using
parameters like gender, age, race etc. in your underwriting model is still
illegal, I think.

Any such score, used to deny service to group x based on parameters unrelated
to the product itself would simply be discrimination, no?

~~~
zaphar
(disclaimer I would never advocate for this in way shape or form)

With that out of the way in small businesses reputation can matter quite a
lot. Informally many small businesses know that one guy/shop/service that is
not worth having as a client. Regardless of discriminatory issues every client
has varying levels of cost associated to doing business with them. So just
like Credit Scores are a risk profile for how a person will handle debt. You
could envision a subset of social scores as a risk profile on having someone
as a business partner/client/provider based on metrics like support cost,
likelihood of nickle and diming you, Contract negotiations gone wrong. That
sort of thing.

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nvahalik
So, if I'm a dad who wants to buy his daughter and her friend tickets to go
see TS... and I'm OK with overpaying, is there a way I can cut through the BS?
Because this looks like a lot of BS...

~~~
zie
Let your daughter and her friend do the BS, they are probably doing it already
anyway. That's sort of the point of the BS... :)

Otherwise taskrabbit or something similar would probably be the best bet, or
just buy a bunch of TS music and stuff from her website.

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SimonPStevens
Something I've often wondered about is if there exists a pricing policy that
could be implemented in such a way as to remove the incentive of ticket
scaplers, while not hurting regular buyers.

Some kind of reverse auction perhaps. Or something equally unusual.

If it always comes down to, once it's sold out, then the scalpers raise the
prices, isn't it simply a question of the balance of supply and demand wanting
to push the price up. So why are the event organisers leaving money on the
table by pricing below the equilibrium price. Simple answer seems to be let
the price rise to the equilibrium, then increase the supply by putting on more
events until it falls to the level you want the price to be.

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Froyoh
Who watches the economists?

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plussed_reader
Right, but this time is different, guys.

You have to complete FOUR capitalist missions, before you can get the next key
for your ticket quest.

It used to be FIVE, but now it's FOUR. Made easier, for your convenience.

