

A Bully Finds a Pulpit on the Web - doosra
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/28/business/28borker.html?_r=1&src=busln&pagewanted=all

======
credo
Interesting story on how search engine "flaws" (or limitations) reward
bullying.

From the story, it seems like sites like GetSatisfaction, ComplaintsBoard etc.
don't use nofollow on links in user-generated content. 'nofollow' should
mitigate the SEO impact and I'm surprised that the sites aren't doing this.

~~~
Matt_Cutts
Agreed. That's an easy change that those websites should consider adding.

~~~
inerte
nofollow is a bad idea and I wish Google stopped using, Matt. You can't trust
people saying "these are not bad guys".

Anyway, shouldn't getsatisfaction reward good customer service? You're just
saying it's their problem to filter what's bad, for their your's users.

~~~
Matt_Cutts
"nofollow is a bad idea and I wish Google stopped using, Matt."

Note that rel=nofollow is just a mechanism to indicate to search engines
"Please don't give this link weight in computing reputation or search
results." If you're talking about a website that is doing shady things, that's
a perfect time to use the rel=nofollow attribute if you link to that website.

~~~
gregpilling
no why is there no rel=badsite tag to indicate that you dislike a
page/website?

------
salemh
Amusing: "Which gets to the real impediment to capitalism, Borker-style, and
the reason it is unlikely to catch on: it is physically exhausting. Mr. Borker
typically works from about 10 a.m. until 5 the next morning, spending much of
that time feuding with unhappy customers. He describes this grueling regimen
of confrontation with a heaviness that is enough to make you want to give him
a hug.

“I’m sure this is taking a toll on my health,” he complains. “I probably won’t
live as long as you.”"

~~~
waterlesscloud
The biggest mystery to me is how he can threaten people with violence,
repeatedly and in a documented fashion, and not be locked up. The system has
failed here.

------
emeltzer
"...He handles those transactions like a Boy Scout because Amazon doesn't mess
around, he says - the company just kicks you off its site if you infuriate
customers."

more evidence in the 'amazon knows what they are doing' file.

~~~
araneae
This is also a ringing endorsement to buy things from Amazon over eBay or
independent sellers.

~~~
andrewl
The fourth comment on the NY Times article says that Amazon was not helpful in
a similar situation. But it's only one comment. Does anybody here have
experience with Amazon's response to abusive merchants?

Here's the comment:

I had a similar appearance once when I bought something from an Amazon seller.
After receiving a defective product and returning it, the seller threatened to
kill me.

What was most shocking was the indifference of Amazon, a company that I admire
and respect along with its founder and CEO Jeff Bezos. I wrote repeatedly to
the company, even finding email addresses of executives. Indeed, as with the
company cited in this story, there were many other complaints on the web to be
found about this seller and his threats. Amazon's response was a virtual
shrug.

------
aberkowitz
I predict however he finds his business to succeed currently will be utterly
destroyed with this article.

You cannot possibly have your name published in association with fraud
accusations and not expect knocks from government agencies.

------
dabent
That guy's like the opposite of Zappos' Tony Hsieh and his odds of a big exit
for his company (or any long term profit after lawsuits, etc.) are also the
opposite.

------
jeremyjarvis
The reporter doesn't seem to understand that Google search is a search engine
not some sort of recommendation engine - the results should only be influenced
by _relevance_ imv.

~~~
asnyder
I'm sure the average internet user might not understand the difference either
and rely on a site's Google ranking to reflect the credibility and reliability
of a website.

~~~
chunkbot
But you're both _wrong_.

In a search for "designer sunglasses", a reputable site is more _relevant_
than a scam site.

It's Google that has to change, not the user.

~~~
jeremyjarvis
>In a search for "designer sunglasses", a reputable site is more relevant than
a scam site.

No it's not. That search term is very open and does not indicate at all that
the searcher is looking for reputable sites. A search for "good designer
sunglasses store" then maybe. I think you're mixing up the job of a search
engine and a review site.

~~~
asnyder
Google appears to disagree with you, as their recent modifications to address
this issue have shown.

------
trustfundbaby
I read that with my jaw on the floor ... the whole time.

I really cannot bring myself to believe that this guy operates with such
impunity. That being said, people really really need to learn to check out a
merchant online before buying from them.

------
nhebb
San Francisco meets Brooklyn: "[Get Satisfaction] wrote to me, ‘We’d like to
talk to you; we should take a proactive approach.’" Mr. Borker sneers and
rolls his eyes. "I sent him a photograph of this," he says, raising his middle
finger.

------
davnola
I was Eric Schmidt, I would be delighted by this article because it's evidence
that people no longer treat Google as a search engine that finds relevant
webpages, but as an oracle that gives you the best advice and recommendations.
And that is obviously more monetizable.

Unfortunately for us, the consumers, it can't actually deliver that service
yet, anymore than city authorities can ensure the best retailers rent the best
locations.

------
superk
I think the funniest part is how he specializes in eyeglass wear. I don't know
if there's anything to the sterotype of eyeglass wearers being more geeky or
introverted (I wear glasses but I'm a small test group) - but it goes along
perfectly with his role as the bully.

------
scottyw
I only see one link per company on Get Satisfaction. You don't get more links
per review.

------
waterlesscloud
I've said it before, and I'll say it again- Google needs to be laser focused
on improving search result quality.

Not preview pages, not restaurant ratings, not autonomous cars.

Search result quality.

------
donohoe
Where's Anonoymous when you need them?

------
plnewman
The amount of work he put in to the 'transaction' described in the article
hardly seems worth it.

~~~
Estragon
Only from a purely financial perspective. He clearly gets off on it.

------
jpr
Why is everyone, including NYT and HN doing exactly what that scumbag wants?
This disgusts me.

~~~
spacemanaki
While I agree that it's clearly what "that scumbag wants" I think this kind of
article could be a good thing printed in something like the NYT. It brings
more awareness that crooks like this are out there and you need to be careful
shopping online. I'm about to send it to my mom, who could easily get caught
up in something crazy like this since her internet-sketchy-ness filter is not
exactly as sharp as most HNers.

