
Leap: An Online Community for Women - stablemap
http://blog.ycombinator.com/join-leap-an-online-community-for-women/
======
turinapple
I'm a woman that's worked in tech since 2011... at times the discrimination
and treatment I've faced has made me want to quit the industry all together.
But every time I reached that point I thought - no, I'm not the one who should
have to leave, it's the people -- usually men -- who have not shown empathy,
kindness or compassion. The ones who have bullied me and harassed me and made
inappropriate comments or advances. So many of these experiences I just buried
inside until I was in the company of other people I trusted and felt safe to
share. There hasn't really been an online forum where I felt safe to have
these conversations until now. Now that Leap is here I have other people who
_get_ me who I can talk to about the stuff that is bugging me. With their help
I can treat each day as new and keep moving forward with my career. If you
don't understand why this community is important perhaps it's because you have
had the privilege of never feeling like a second class citizen in the industry
you work in.

~~~
fruzz
I really wish your experience was unique.

A colleague was groped. She didn't report it. It would have likely diminished
her future prospects. A friend was asked out on dates, unsolicited, multiple
times by coworkers. She just had to laugh it off. Women at a previous
employment reported not being taken as seriously as men in meetings, and being
passed over for promotions in favour of less qualified men. A friend reported
sexualized posters of women up in the office. In the chat of my company, a
sexualized video of women was passed around.

I'm trans, so my challenges are a bit different. I try to hide the fact that
I'm trans during interviews. A lot of people are uncomfortable with trans
people (26% of Canadian men are uncomfortable moving next to one), and with
interviews to see if I'm socially a good fit, that can end it. I actually
changed my name to an androgynous one as to not out myself. I get misgendered
at work by people who do it on purpose. I also get touched inappropriately by
a coworker.

In all cases, what can you do to challenge these things without being seen as
"the crazy one", "too sensitive", "party pooper", or whatever? Without hurting
my finances? It's shit.

~~~
booleandilemma
_A friend was asked out on dates, unsolicited, multiple times by coworkers._

I’m a geek and don’t know the first thing about dating, but doesn’t at least
one of the parties involved need to receive an unsolicited request? Isn’t that
how it works?

~~~
DoreenMichele
If it is a setting where asking is potentially problematic -- like work -- it
is best to either broach the subject more delicately or don't ask unless you
are confident you know the answer is _yes._

Just asking cold calling style is not the only option for approaching such
things.

~~~
iamdave
_If it is a setting where asking is potentially problematic -- like work_

This is cultural, no? I mean, I have a _personal_ rule of never dating
coworkers, but I have friends elsewhere in the world where this isn't such a
strange notion.

~~~
DoreenMichele
I worked at a company where co-workers dated and even married. It wasn't
against the rules as long as one did not have power over the other at work.

Nonetheless, I was asked for a date by a senior programmer in the department I
had been hoping to transfer to. This helped kill my hopes of having a real
career at the company and helped me make my peace with just leaving the
company shortly thereafter.

Some people know how to navigate such situations effectively. Some don't.
Culture may help skew those percentages one direction or the other, but I
think certain settings introduce inherent problems that need to be accounted
for and navigated around. Working together is one such situation.

~~~
iamdave
_This helped kill my hopes of having a real career at the company and helped
me make my peace with just leaving the company shortly thereafter._

Merely curious, was the working relationship between the two of you already
strained/tense? Said another way, were you already planning to depart from the
company before the senior programmer asked you out?

~~~
DoreenMichele
I did not have a working relationship with him. We worked at the same company,
but we never worked together. I was already expecting to leave for unrelated
reasons.

I have a certificate in GIS. In the 5+ years at that company, he was the only
person who knew what GIS was without me having to explain it. It never crossed
his mind that I might have IT ambitions or that my technical training might
have value for the company. He just saw an attractive woman, and that was it.
This helped convince me that the company was simply not fertile ground for a
serious career for me.

My department was a pink collar ghetto. I had no desire to remain in an
underpaid pink collar job and use the company as a means to marry well. He no
doubt made at least 3 to 5 times what I made.

~~~
dzhiurgis
> He just saw an attractive woman

Attractive sexually or intellectually?

~~~
dang
Not cool. Please don't do this here.

------
konogasa
I expect this to be a controversial comment. I might just be overreacting.

    
    
      If you identify as a woman and are interested in joining Leap, 
      please sign up for our beta here.
    

I'm a trans woman who works in tech. I think it's dangerous to open a
community for women to people who "identify as women". For one thing, there
are plenty of women who do not "identify as women". For instance, older women
may not really know what "identifying" is all about and just think "well, I'm
a woman, what's to identify with?". There are also younger women who reject
the idea that gender is an identity that you can choose at will.

Obviously the invitation is meant to show that trans women are welcome.
That's... moving, but I think it will only cause trouble. First you create a
place especially for women, which is needed because like the announcement
says, many women don't feel welcome, comfortable or even safe in online
discussions that tend to escalate to shouting matches, typically among men
(since it's the women leaving). Then you invite in to the community people who
have been socialised as men, have grown up as men, have spent most of their
professional lives as men and who have often contributed to exactly the kind
of working environment that makes womens' lives difficult as tech workers.
That's defeating the whole point of a "community where the core culture [will
be] set by women".

I'm not trying to say that trans women are not women (I mean, duh; I'm one. Of
both). But it should be kept in mind that most of us carry a great deal of
baggage from the time we lived as men. Baggage that's very hard to get rid of
and that many of us are not even aware of. In light of this, I think this big-
hearted invitation to everyone who identifies as a woman, should be revised to
something more cautious. I'd think, if someone "identifies as a woman" and
works in technology, they'd respond to an invitation to just "women" anyway.

To be perfectly clear, I'm totally not joining and I invite any other trans
women who read this to think very carefully before doing so. Just think of all
the times you had a civilised and polite debate with other trans women about
trans stuff, or about anything.

~~~
annabellish
>have spent most of their professional lives as men and who have often
contributed to exactly the kind of working environment that makes womens'
lives difficult as tech workers

This is certainly not the case for all trans women. You may not feel like you
need to join a community like this, but I don't think it's fair to then speak
for/to the trans community saying that none of us should.

I've heard things similar to what you're saying in the past, but I don't think
it holds water. Trans women typically aren't welcome in male-only spaces,
because we aren't. Often we aren't welcome in women-only spaces because of
opinions like these. Usually there aren't trans-only spaces. It ends up with
us being excluded _everywhere_ because of some dubious concept of
"socialisation", as if every trans woman has the same experiences such that
you can discriminate based on it.

>Just think of all the times you had a civilised and polite debate with other
trans women about trans stuff, or about anything.

Often! I've also had civilised and polite debates with men, and been shouted
down by cis women. People are people, not just their gender, and while there
are trends that's all they are.

~~~
konogasa
>> This is certainly not the case for all trans women. You may not feel like
you need to join a community like this, but I don't think it's fair to then
speak for/to the trans community saying that none of us should.

I accept that there are differences between trans women, but I believe my
description covers a strong majority. I don't speak "for" anyone, of course.

>> It ends up with us being excluded _everywhere_ because of some dubious
concept of "socialisation", as if every trans woman has the same experiences
such that you can discriminate based on it.

I agree that the concept of "socialisation" is vague and hard to define. The
problem is that there are differences in the way men and women behave in a
social context and because these differences end up harming women (usually)
they need to be addressed. It's easy to see that boys and girls are brought up
differently (different toys, different advise, being told off for different
things etc) so that's a likely explanation. The alternative is usually a
biological explanation about male and female brains generating male and female
behaviours. We don't really understand how brains generate any behaviours so I
find the biological explanation to be very suspicious. The "socialisation"
explanation sounds a lot more straightforward.

Of course there are differences between trans women, in behaviour as well as
upbringing. There are differences between men, and between women. Yet, here we
are with a tech indudstry that is, in aggregate, unfair or hostile to women,
but not to men. You can't predict the behaviour of individuals, but you can
make fairly accurate predictions for the kind of behaviours that arise in
groups. That's why a community like Leap is needed in the first place.

My concern is that in the case of women-only spaces where trans women are
welcome, many trans women will join, responding to their need to belong, which
you express and which I feel myself. And that given enough trans women
joining, a few of them will eventually display those behavioural traits you
can expect from people who grew up like men and that are the traits the
community seems to want to keep out.

I agree that feeling excluded from everywhere is harsh and feels extremely
unfair. But we can't fix unfair by making more unfair. We can't make the world
fair for ourselves by making it more unfair for others. At the end of the day,
the way forward is true equality. If trans women are accepted as women, and
women are accepted as equal to men (in technology, or anywhere), trans women
will not need to feel excluded from anywhere.

But this is not yet the case and I really think that trans women need to give
some space to cis women until it is and in order to help make it so.

>> Often!

And thanks for letting me have one, too. My experience is that it happens, but
rarely.

~~~
sn
> My concern is that in the case of women-only spaces where trans women are
> welcome, many trans women will join, responding to their need to belong,
> which you express and which I feel myself. And that given enough trans women
> joining, a few of them will eventually display those behavioural traits you
> can expect from people who grew up like men and that are the traits the
> community seems to want to keep out.

I am cis-gendered female and exhibit a lot of conversational traits typically
identified as male-patterned. Does that mean I shouldn't be allowed?

Personally I love the idea of allowing trans-women into a woman focused
community. Your perspective is going to be unique (and likely uniquely
insightful.) You also experience the same discrimination as cis-gendered women
if you aren't explicitly identifying as transgendered and may have the same
needs for support and understanding related to that discrimination.

~~~
konogasa
>> I am cis-gendered female and exhibit a lot of conversational traits
typically identified as male-patterned. Does that mean I shouldn't be allowed?

I concede I haven't considered women with atypical behaviours so I'll be
honest and say I don't know how to answer your question. My guess is that cis
women being a bit confrontational (if I intepret that right) is going to be
much less disruptive, or divisive, than trans women doing the same.

>> Personally I love the idea of allowing trans-women into a woman focused
community. Your perspective is going to be unique (and likely uniquely
insightful.) You also experience the same discrimination as cis-gendered women
if you aren't explicitly identifying as transgendered and may have the same
needs for support and understanding related to that discrimination.

Thank you for your empowering words, I appreciate them. I hope you're right
and that the trans women who join Leap will contribute positively to it.

Personally, I'm not out to my coworkers so yes, I'd benefit from a community
like Leap, absolutely. But that can't be just about me (or others like me). If
you look at complaints cis women have against trans women, it's all about us
thinking only of ourselves and our need to be perceived as women, taking the
place of cis women in employment, enjoying resources and structures meant to
help cis women etc. The majority of the people who say those things typically
turn out to be vicious trolls who don't really care so much about cis women as
about hurting trans women. But I have to consider the possibility that in
their hatred they have managed to latch on to a nugget of truth: that just by
being perceived as any other woman, I end up taking the place of one. And that
just shocks me to my core. I transitioned to find myself, not to usurp someone
else's place in the world.

So I've decided to be very careful to avoid doing that, if at all possible.
And one part of that is staying well away from spaces meant "for women", even
if they're explicitly trans-friendly.

And I do think that other trans women should also be just as careful.
Expressing your identity can't be done at the cost of others' lives. Well,
unless you're Vlad the Impaler.

~~~
konogasa
I can't edit my post. I wanted to add that it's not just the internet postings
of vicious, transphobic trolls that have made me think. It's things like the
controversy around Fallon Fox; or, the story of a trans woman who received an
award for women entrepreneurs thanks to the success of a company she set up
while living as a man. Stories that show that sometimes, trans women can
really run roughshod over the interests of cis women, in our road to self-
actualisation.

~~~
DoreenMichele
_Stories that show that sometimes, trans women can really run roughshod over
the interests of cis women, in our road to self-actualisation._

This is an issue I have been uncomfortably aware for a while. I have never
before seen anyone comment on it.

Let me suggest that your awareness of it makes you someone I would prefer to
have around in a women's group.

I say this as someone who has been burned on this very issue, repeatedly so.
But I would prefer to seek a path forward for both cishet women and trans
women, one that victimizes neither. That path won't be found without people
like you.

If Leap is something you feel would benefit you, I hope you will reconsider
your position and join it. If it doesn't work out to your satisfaction for any
reason, you can always stop participating.

------
lynnetye
I've been a member of Leap for many months now, and I have been amazed by the
incredible displays of women helping women in this online community. I've
become personal friends with a handful of women that I've met through Leap,
and wish that Leap existed years ago when I first entered (and felt lost
navigating) the tech scene. Thanks for creating this, @cbcowans. It is already
a huge success.

------
DoreenMichele
I have seen research that women who go to all female colleges tend to do
better career-wise. So I don't think the idea of a female enclave as a means
to inoculate women against problematic social norms is without merit.

If you have never done this before, let me suggest that if you like the
culture it currently has, you need to be really leery of making significant
changes, such as deciding you will welcome men at some point after starting
out as exclusively female.

I have been a member of predominantly female groups. If there is a single man
in them, they fail to be some kind of female empowerment zone. He will have
the largest influence any time he posts and he will be backed by vicious
female allies who will have a huge problem with any woman standing up to him.
It is bizarre stuff.

The one group I briefly belonged to that was initially exclusively female due
to happenstance promptly crashed and burned when the first man joined. After
ugly stuff went down, the list basically died. It was eventually disbanded,
even though he quickly left because of the drama. The group never recovered
from the debacle.

~~~
Iepoiel
Single-sex schools is generally perceived to give better results in grades and
careers, with research to back it up. They are also perceived to give worse
citizens in term of empathy and understanding.

This theory is notoriously used by the military in many nations. By
strengthening the in-group feeling you gain several traits such as increased
confidence and feeling of belonging, and you increase tensions against the
out-group which during a war is perceived as useful.

Benefits and drawbacks, one which many nations has gone with banning the
practice of single sex education. I don't disagree with it and I find the
science behind it to be rather robust.

~~~
DoreenMichele
_Single-sex schools is generally perceived to give better results in grades
and careers, with research to back it up. They are also perceived to give
worse citizens in term of empathy and understanding._

Women have a tendency to be too empathetic and understanding and society tends
to hang a lot of expectations on them to be so. If women want careers, being a
little less caring and a little more goal oriented seems like a constructive
outcome to me.

------
cirgue
What problem is this intended to solve that isn't solved by moderation
policies and forum culture? I ask because I think this is a cool project, but
there is also the inescapable fact that at some point men and women will have
to work together in engineering environments, and we still have a dearth of
environments that foster those interactions.

~~~
RangerScience
Sounds like you have a community that you want to exist, and that you have a
vision for.

Is there anything preventing you from going out and making it?

~~~
cirgue
> Sounds like you have a community that you want to exist, and that you have a
> vision for

I do, that's why I asked the question.

~~~
RangerScience
Great! Are you working on making it exist?

------
cbcowans
Hi! I'm the creator of Leap. Glad to answer questions here.

~~~
probably_wrong
I'll go straight to the difficult questions:

1\. I thought gender-based discrimination was illegal. How is Leap not
illegal?

2\. One of the main objections of "gentleman's clubs" was that their (male)
members had access to important networking contacts, putting women in unequal
foot in an unfair way when it came to businesses. Wouldn't Leap be unfair in
the same way?

~~~
rev_bird
>Wouldn't Leap be unfair in the same way?

This assumption completely disregards the measurable advantage men have in the
tech community. If you have identical programs, one for a historically
disenfranchised group, and one for the group that's been in power for decades,
only one of those programs is shitty.

edit: "Advantage" was a poor choice of words, but since it's been quoted in
replies I'll leave it. I meant something more like "given the gender
disparities in the tech community."

~~~
fvdessen
> The measurable advantage men have in the tech community

What is that advantage and how is it measured ?

~~~
beat
Measurement is easy. Just look around you. The majority of people working in
tech are men. An even larger majority of its leadership is men.

Why is this?

There are only two possible causes that I can see - genetic, or cultural. The
genetic argument is basically that men are, by nature, better at being
programmers and leaders than women - that women are inferior. The cultural
argument is that there is a social advantage to being male (and a social
disadvantage to being female) - that, all else being equal, things tend to
default in favor of men.

Personally, I reject the genetic explanation. Most people do. If you also
reject it, then you're stuck with the cultural explanation, or finding
something I haven't come up with.

~~~
fvdessen
Could it be that the cultural problem is the low social status of IT Work ?

~~~
etjossem
Lawyers have about the same gender breakdown as computer systems analysts, so
I don't think this is the case. CEOs are even more predominantly male, at a
fairly shocking 73% by 2016 numbers (we'll have '17 soon).

The problem with tech in particular is that we're often viewed as an inclusive
and progressive industry. But when you run the numbers, we're no better than
the law firms.

------
RangerScience
As a man, I cannot access your site, but I am still curious which community
model you're using - reddit, old school forum, feed (FB, insta)...?

Do you have anything you're doing that you find particularly interesting,
beyond the self-selection?

~~~
cbcowans
I put together a gif with some example content from Leap when I posted Leap on
Product Hunt. You can check it out here if you like:
[https://www.producthunt.com/posts/leap-by-
yc](https://www.producthunt.com/posts/leap-by-yc). I'd describe it as a
hybrid. I'd love to hear which bucket you'd put it in.

~~~
autotune
Not OP but to me it looks like a Reddit clone with a few more "fun features"
with the emojis. It could very well be based off of reddit considering it's
open source.

~~~
prawn
I find it interesting that the reply button in the stream/index is so
prominent. I'd view that as too dominant a design decision, but then perhaps
fostering discussion/involvement at the cost of style or following an off-site
link is worth the trade off.

------
adfm
We all need a safe space to come in from the cold. When you feel vulnerable,
you want to communicate with friendly, like-minded people. However, you'll
find more noise within an echo chamber and that jerks exist regardless of
gender.

This sort of gender-specific walled garden is nothing new and I suppose will
always attract a certain stereotype. Here's an old Anthony Lewis post from
1994 that may sober folks on the idea:
[http://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/14/opinion/abroad-at-home-
tim...](http://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/14/opinion/abroad-at-home-time-to-grow-
up.html)

"I wouldn't want to belong to a club that would have me as a member"
\--Groucho Marx

~~~
grasshopperpurp
>Michael Godwin of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a public-interest law
firm, made the same point -- if slightly less elegantly -- about the Santa
Rosa case. People who objected to the computer message, he said, "should have
called the guy who posted the message a jerk."

Call an obnoxious speaker a jerk: what a useful formula, what an intelligent
way to get the resentment off your chest without starting down the legal road
to suppression of speech. It would have worked well, for example, in the
notorious case of Prof. J. Donald Silva of the University of New Hampshire.

I find this section to be a disturbing summation of the author's attitude on
the subject. And, the Groucho Marx quote has no bearing on any of this; it's
self-deprecation.

~~~
adfm
Do I find a mens club repugnant? Yes, but I do appreciate comfortable chairs.
As for Groucho, I suppose the subtlety of his humor falls on deaf ears.

~~~
grasshopperpurp
So, how does it relate then? What did you add by including it? It's a famous
quote, and I remember mentioning it to a college professor when we covered
Poe's 'The Black Cat.' I'm all for learning. Please explain.

~~~
adfm
It's about exclusion. The Marx family were Jews. Men-only clubs (just "clubs"
back then) excluded Jews. Groucho's feigning snobbery was self-deprecating,
but also allegorical.

Walled gardens are for suckers.

~~~
grasshopperpurp
Thanks very much for the explanation, and I'm sorry for my initial
tone/wrongness.

~~~
adfm
No worries. We're always learning.

------
th1nkdifferent
I have a naive question that needs answering.

Is there a difference between a community for Women vs a community for anybody
who wants a civil community?

From the discussion, I gather that women like 'women only' communities
primarily because there are no "ill behaved", threatening men that turn away
women.

Is there a place for a community for civilized human beings where everyone is
included regardless of their gender identity?

I think gender specific communities creates a mono culture and punishes men
who are civilized and know how to behave around other gender(s).

The real issue to address is to keep out the unruly crowd - regardless of
gender.

------
ianwalter
This is smart, natural, and a good use of tech. I hope your community
succeeds.

~~~
to_bpr
I agree. Male only entities are also smart and natural, and if tech based are
a good use of that tech, right?

~~~
bigbluedots
Sure, if someone identifies a need for one? Even better, if you see an
opportunity going missing in the market due to the lack of said entity, why
not start one up?

------
keyboardhitter
I don't use Facebook, but I entered my LinkedIn and Github URLs globbed
together. Really hoping for some leeway on this verification method. I would
be happy to wait until other methods are created but can't say I was not
disappointed.

------
erinbk
I want to join but I don't have a Facebook! What's next? (Besides getting a
FacebooK)

------
etiene
seems wonderful! just requested a membership :)

I've been part of some online tech communities for women, but I found they
were too US-centric and it was difficult for me to obtain value from it,
hoping Leap will be different

~~~
cbcowans
Great! Look forward to having you join!

------
allergeek
Direct sign-up link:

[https://leap.ycombinator.com](https://leap.ycombinator.com)

------
egamirorrim
What if i identify as female?

~~~
btcctb
That's a really good question actually and shows the problem with sites like
this (especially when connected with Facebook)

~~~
cbcowans
I'm not using Facebook's definition of sex to include or exclude anyone. The
link to Facebook is so I can check that each new member is real. Anyone who
identifies as a woman is invited to join.

~~~
actuallyalys
Do you use the Facebook link to verify that the person is female? I'm trans
and out as a woman in a lot of places, including at the tech company where I
work, but not on Facebook.

~~~
cbcowans
I do all verification manually. Please send me a note at cadran at
ycombinator.com and we can discuss further.

~~~
actuallyalys
Thanks!

------
dominotw
> they’ve found jobs, met mentors and made friends through the community.

I am interested in finding a mentor and a supportive community. Is there a
forum like this for general public.

~~~
Anticapitalist
There's tons of them.

Facebook groups, linked-in groups and subreddits for any discipline already
exist and are waiting for you to join them.

------
DelaneyM
Please allow signup verification by LinkedIn, many people do not have Facebook
accounts. (I am one such person.)

------
bischofs
I am a bit triggered.

This segregation stuff does not make sense to me, it almost feels like prison
rules - keep genders/races away from each other because if they interact it
will probably be violent.

 _I wondered what would happen if I created a community where the core culture
was set by women, and the software and product decisions were also made by
women_

-> This also seems strange to me and counterproductive. If we build a society where any interaction happens without confrontations against the people that may be causing the issues, in this case "men", then how are we to make progress? Do men and women think differently about the merits of different software technologies or not?

 _Even when members have opposing views, they’ve given each other the benefit
of the doubt and continue to talk productively._

-> Are you implying that men are incapable of this? Or that an environment where men and women interact is incapable of achieving this? Seems regressive...

~~~
Y_Y
Are you trying to get at the fact that while this is supposed to be empowering
to women, it necessarily implies that there are material differences between
men and women in how they interact socially? Following this line do we
conclude that it is morally inconsistent (with modern "totally equal"
egalitarianism) or that it espouses a less popular "equal worth, but not equal
treatment" ethic? Or maybe this is just a way to bootstrap communities with
less maleness baked-in but that can eventually accept men once their cultural
norms are established?

~~~
bischofs
I think you are moving in the right direction - there is a strange and
confusing double standard with gender diversity. Note that I am talking about
averages here not individual women.

Women and men are different -> This justifies different outcomes in certain
areas such as tech but promotes diversity due to the fact that they think
different and could provide a much needed alternative viewpoint in a
homogeneous environment. (this is mostly my perspective)

Women and men are the same -> Then there is a problem with the outcomes being
different but the diversity argument goes away because men and women view and
interact the same. If this is true we have to forcefully equalize all
professions to 50-50. This also doesn't make sense in the context of leap - if
men and women are the same why do we need environments that are for one gender
or the other?

As far as bootstrapping less masculine communities I'm all for that but the
execution of it might turn a bit bizarre when you start letting men in.

------
mychael
Can someone help me understand how this site is not sexist and discriminatory
against men?

~~~
jjeaff
Do you also consider separate men and women's bathrooms prejudicial and
sexist?

~~~
chrislynch42
As defined by merriam-webster.com I certainly do. Why do we consider all
sexism bad?

~~~
rev_bird
That's not the real question, you're pretending context doesn't matter. What's
your argument? Women say "I enjoy having a place to communicate with other
women in a place that feels safe from male interference," and your response is
"Let me into the women's bathroom"?

~~~
chrislynch42
No. Having separate bathrooms for men and women is sexist, by definition. What
I hoped for was discussion on whether all sexism is bad.

~~~
jjeaff
No, having separate bathrooms is not sexist. Because the term sexism refers to
negative issues only. Webster's uses the word "discrimination". Which I assume
you are being pedantic and interpreting in a broader context like
"discriminating between the colors blue and teal".

But lookup discriminate and it has a few meanings. One of which refers to
prejudicial or unfair treatment. That is the definition implied when referring
sexist discrimination.

~~~
chrislynch42
I don't agree. If sexism refers to the negative issues only then what is the
word for the positive issues of dividing people up by sex?

~~~
jjeaff
Gender distinction, gender separation

Every major dictionary specifically uses terms like "prejudice",
"discrimination against", "stereotype". There is obviously a consensus that it
is referring to negative/unequal treatment.

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mcintyre1994
Honest question, does HN feel unwelcoming or uncomfortable for women? In
particular: “I’ve found that some conversations online escalate to shouting
matches quickly” do female HN users identify this with HN? Not saying Leap
shouldn’t exist or anything, I’m just wondering if HN has these particular
issues that I haven’t personally recognised.

~~~
verylittlemeat
I'm not a woman so I'm not going to try and address what women do or don't
feel about HN but I just want to say:

>“I’ve found that some conversations online escalate to shouting matches
quickly”

How many people can find a group of people IN GENERAL
(online/offline/anywhere) that doesn't rapidly devolve into
power/politics/passive & active aggressive behavior? Go spend some time on a
forum like metafilter where you have to pay $5 to comment and the moderators
aggressively prune any opinion that doesn't tow a nominal progressive line.
Even with all of that you end up with some of the most breathtakingly toxic
behavior I've seen on any forum.

In my opinion Leap is a wonderful innovation. It will help lots of people
realize being an asshole does not know gender.

~~~
allergeek
Well, since many joined for networking purposes, and the identity stays fixed
(no throwaways) and transparent (with rich personal profiles), I guess we are
being mindful about our impression.

As there are things you won’t probably speak out at work, so there’re things
and emotional responses you keep to yourself in a professional community. Is
it good? Is it bad? Haven’t figured it out yet.

I got really sick from reading the neverending, overblown feminist headlines
in YC Female Founders group on FB. Leap has been growing into something else,
luckily, which I suppose is provided by the fact that it was built and
nurtured by female engineers (thus partially sharing a certain mindset and
culture).

Also, with a decent amount of supportive culture present, I still woudn’t call
Leap an emotional support group. The responses so far have been consistently
useful and constructive.

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erinbk
Is there an alternative Identity verification besides FacebooK?

~~~
cbcowans
Not at the moment unfortunately. If you send me a note at leap at ycombinator
dot com I will let you know when I add other auth mechanisms.

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sexydefinesher
[flagged]

