
Violence Escalates as France Scrambles to Respond to ‘Yellow Vest’ Protesters - sahin-boydas
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/01/world/europe/france-yellow-vests-protests-macron.html
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rasz
"fun" fact: average earner in France can buy ~2K liters of diesel with one
months salary, average earner in Poland ~600 liters. Half both numbers for
minimum wages. French started this protest over expensive diesel ...

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eli
Is it truly about diesel or is it like how the American revolution was about
tea?

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frenchyfrog
It is looking very much like the beginning of US tea party. A lot of retired
people because their pensions diminished by 2-3%. Single parents who are
really struggling because of housing prices. And then add to it all kind of
extrems right, left etc. It just started about diesel.

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rdm_blackhole
The French government has been raising taxes for years. People have been
struggling to make ends meet.

Macron comes off as a privileged president that has no clue about what his
citizens are going through.

Things are going to escalate further if nothing changes.

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hbbio
France has high taxes, but at the same time provides more services than other
countries: free education including higher education, free healthcare,
generous unemployment package, etc. Even more, this is done without closing
the door to immigration.

Regarding the current movement which started with taxes on gas, the tax raise
is insignificant vs. the actual oil price increase. Read this article (in
French) for more information: [https://www.lemonde.fr/les-
decodeurs/article/2018/11/09/peti...](https://www.lemonde.fr/les-
decodeurs/article/2018/11/09/petit-manuel-a-lire-avant-de-debattre-de-la-
hausse-des-prix-du-carburant_5381196_4355770.html)

Also, the people who go into the protests to break cars and shops have nothing
to do with the original movement. Some clearly came to loot shops (if you are
anarchist, you want to burn luxury clothing items, not take them), some are
anarchists who came to fight police forces, etc.

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rdm_blackhole
Taxes on gasoline make up 50% of the price.

To pretend that the increase in taxes is there to help pay for renewable
energies is a joke.

It's not a secret that the government is broke and looking to raise money any
way it can.

It's trying to pass this tax increase as something that needs to be done to
save the planet.

But they dont tax the fuel for tankers or airplanes so where is the logic?

It's not the little guy with his diesel car that does most of the damage to
the environment.

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JeanMarcS
> But they dont tax the fuel for tankers or airplanes so where is the logic?

Can they ? The only thing that will happen is no plane or tanker will buy fuel
in France if it is not a decision made on an international level, no ?

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daleco
I think that planes refuel at each trip. They wouldn’t have the choice.

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rad_gruchalski
It's very interesting though, following the hashtag the protestors use yields
quite a lot of Turkish activity in their support.

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sometime
ELI5: What is the consensus on the disadvantages and advantages of diesel?
I've heard conflicting information on this:

Some say reducing the number of cows would be much more effective for slowing
down global warming.

Some say diesel exhaust fumes are not so bad and are unlikely to affect our
health very much.

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rasz
Even if you dont care about global warming, diesel produces smog in cities.
DPF and EGR delete is very popular among diesel owners, and rarely policed.

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jondumbau
how popular do you really think it is in the average population...

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sahin-boydas
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/french-police-clash-with-
yellow...](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/french-police-clash-with-yellow-vest-
protesters-paris-riot-today-dozens-injured-2018-12-01/)

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sahin-boydas
French police clash with protesters in Paris riot; 90 injured

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fartcannon
False flag, perhaps?

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sparkie
The protests are real. The violence is the false flag. Saboteurs planted into
the crowds to try and discredit the movement.

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leaveyou
It already happened in the previous protests at Place de la Republique.. I
would not be surprised.

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sparkie
It's a tried and tested strategy that works for any kind of protest anywhere.
People are angry and in large groups. It only takes a gentle push to create
riots. The people in charge want the riots to happen so they can label their
opponents as the lawless mob.

You just need to look at who came dressed for riots though. It certainly isn't
the yellow jackets.

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leaveyou
I know. And if the mob is stubborn and does not want to escalate.. you send
some "collaborators" to break the windows or put the fires because everyone
knows, the mobs are crazy. I suspect the riot police is down-voting me.. No
common sense people would get upset by my post.

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mirimir
> Added to that is the reality that many who say they are supportive have not
> yet come out to demonstrate. While it is possible that this reservoir of
> supporters will not become activists, if they did the government would be
> hard put to cope.

> ...

> Multiple surveys of public opinion released in the past week suggest that 70
> percent to 80 percent of French people sympathize with the Yellow Vests’
> contention that President Emmanuel Macron and his government “talks about
> the end of the world while we are talking about the end of the month.”

> The slogan refers to Mr. Macron’s focus on reducing climate change by
> promoting fuel efficiency and raising gas taxes in contrast to French
> working people who struggle to make it to the end of their month on their
> earnings.

I'm reminded some of Trump rhetoric. Also the Occupy movement. It's a heady
mix.

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JeanMarcS
It’s the second Saturday in a row that there are degradation on the Champs
Elysées.

Today someone even paint a slogan on the Arc de Triomphe.

I’m not sure those good sympathetic polls will last long.

Some of the yellow vests representatives demand to raise the level and start
blocking gas stations.

It’s December. One of the month where shops make a good part of their yearly
income.

I’m not sure a lot of people will continue to follow. We’ll see.

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mirimir
> It’s December. One of the month where shops make a good part of their yearly
> income.

True. But feeling poor during the holidays can be especially painful and
frustrating, no?

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sahin-boydas
just read 260+ arrested, nearly 90 injured.

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sahin-boydas
European union human rights should be example to their own cops in France. it
is pretty shocking how SOME french cops (no generalition of course) are so
violet!!!

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stdplaceholder
At least now we have some idea of the fuel price needed to start a riot.
$7/gal. That means there's plenty of headroom to raise the fuel tax in the
USA!

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masonic
Well before that price, you'd see a huge increase in diversion of home heating
oil (untaxed) to fuel use.

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bengalister
Most of the violence is coming from left extremists or black blocks. At every
protest in France (and we are specialist), you can see them attacking banks,
insurance companies branches, luxury stores, burning expensive cars... I don't
understand why the governments are not tougher on them. Maybe intelligence
services are too busy spying on islamists which are an even more serious
threat.

