
What Noma did next: how the ‘New Nordic’ is reshaping the food world - tintinnabula
https://www.theguardian.com/food/2020/feb/28/what-noma-did-next-new-nordic-food-rene-redzepi-claus-meyer-locavore-foraging
======
Shivetya
for an article which practically browbeats us with environmental concern and
"brutal inequality" it really is odd they celebrate Noma where lunches cost on
the order of $375 without drinks[0][1]. So basically we have a group of
pretentious activists bemoaning the well being of the planet and the little
guy while eating a mere lunch that is more most of those little people see per
month if not year.

Spare me.

I tried to read the article with an open mind but the amount of preaching was
a bit over the top so I went restaurant hunting and outside of the Ikea
mentions this what you get, the elite basically having the food equivalent to
Papal dispensations. Probably the same bunch which jets from high profile high
visibility environment conference to the next.

You do not reshape the world on four hundred dollar lunches.

[0] [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/24/dining/noma-restaurant-
co...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/24/dining/noma-restaurant-
copenhagen.html)

[1] [https://noma.dk/food-and-wine/](https://noma.dk/food-and-wine/)

~~~
Mikeb85
Much of the article is about the democratic food changes brought about by
Claus Meyer, Noma's original owner and the one who recruited Rene Redzepi for
the original concept (and eventually sold Noma to Redzepi). What Redzepi is
doing is definitely experimental and for the jet-set crowd, whereas the
article details how Claus Meyer is working with Ikea and putting food in
supermarkets...

~~~
Melting_Harps
> You do not reshape the world on four hundred dollar lunches.

> Much of the article is about the democratic food changes brought about by
> Claus Meyer, Noma's original owner and the one who recruited Rene Redzepi
> for the original concept (and eventually sold Noma to Redzepi). What Redzepi
> is doing is definitely experimental and for the jet-set crowd, whereas the
> article details how Claus Meyer is working with Ikea and putting food in
> supermarkets...

You're judging the efforts of the staff by the clientele they serve? Big
mistake.

I actually met the current creative staff at Noma when they came and dined at
our restaurant, and they're super humble guys. I was expecting them to be in
suits and ordering the most expensive wines, they were guests of Kimbal so it
was all comp'd anyway. But instead they were in Dickies jackets and jeans and
were interested in hearing about what we do/did as a farm-to-table and met our
Team in BOH.

The current creative director at Noma is also the same guy who worked under
Ferran at El Bulli, and if you haven't realized or can appreciate what they've
done for food you're either entirely oblivious or beyond help.

Just the amount of attention that has been placed on food education and
sustainable Ag practices, and sourcing locally and from organic farmers alone
have made massive strides, MAD (Rene's conference) [1] is also a premier
platform for launching these projects.

Granted, more can always be done, but restaurants are poor business ventures,
and the staff are overworked and underpaid.

1: [https://madfeed.co/](https://madfeed.co/)

~~~
Mikeb85
I'm sure the Noma guys are humble. Noma is notorious for using free labour and
underpaying and overworking everyone else. Their restaurant literally couldn't
exist in most countries as they'd violate a ton of labour laws...

> restaurants are poor business ventures

They're actually great ventures, there's just a lot of restaurateurs who don't
know how to make money.

Anyhow, Noma is influential in the foodie world, but their influence on
popular culture and eating habits outside Scandinavia is way overstated.

~~~
Melting_Harps
> Noma is notorious for using free labour and underpaying and overworking
> everyone else. Their restaurant literally couldn't exist in most countries
> as they'd violate a ton of labour laws...

That's any restaurant, you don't work at these places because its a good
business proposition with good work-life balance, you do it mainly out of
passion. It just so happens that Michelin awarded places have deeper talent
pools to draw from.

I should know, I worked at a new 'concept' headed by a 3-star chef and lasted
5 weeks before I realized what a scam it was and walked out. Just for context,
I've been a Sous-chef but I'm often the highest paid BOH hourly worker in most
my restaurant jobs as just a cook, making more per hour than almost all sous-
chefs on a weekly basis with 1/2 the responsibilities. I can usually jump from
BOH or FOH if/when needed.

I also had the privilege of working with one of the rockstars from El Bulli
Hotel, who pretty much said the same.

> They're actually great ventures, there's just a lot of restaurateurs who
> don't know how to make money.

What first hand experience do you have with this? I've ran kitchens before
(granted, it was in Europe) and the food, maintenance, utility and labour
costs are only ever really reasonable when you run lean as hell and alcohol
sales are through the roof (think late Spring/Summer and holidays). Otherwise
buy-outs are the only thing to be seen as a healthy ROI.

> Anyhow, Noma is influential in the foodie world, but their influence on
> popular culture and eating habits outside Scandinavia is way overstated.

Wrong again:

[https://www.eater.com/2018/11/8/18068596/dan-giusti-
brigaid-...](https://www.eater.com/2018/11/8/18068596/dan-giusti-brigaid-
nutritious-school-lunches-american-cafeterias-noma)

I grant you a lot of it is good PR, as most high-profile 'foodie/chef' stuff
typically is. but it has made a significant impact in the end consumer that
wasn't there. And its trying to disrupt archaic, bloated budgets in Government
run crony-capitalist systems (school lunch programs).

Dan Barber's trajectory to its current notoriety is a good example of how
collaborative efforts help elevate profiles:

[https://www.vogue.com/article/rene-redzepi-dan-barber-
lela-r...](https://www.vogue.com/article/rene-redzepi-dan-barber-lela-rose)

Now, would I personally travel to eat at Noma DK/MX, no... not really. I'm not
into molecular gastronomy, I come from a Scientific background with several
years working in a lab, and most of their novelty relies on HS level lab/bench
work.

Its interesting, and I'm glad they're successful; but unless I'm a being
treated to a menu for free I'm not going, also I'm not there target
demographic as I cook.

------
tuukkah
I would say that's mostly old by now and the new new is this bit: "he is
partnering with Ikea – which feeds 660 million people a year, making it one of
the 10 largest food-service operations in the world – to “veganise” its menu."
The linked article from last summer is a good summary:
[https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/we-tried-
ike...](https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/we-tried-ikeas-first-
meatless-meatballs-and-they-were-ok/news-
story/666c7ad550f6cb2a220d6a531e73f27b)

~~~
raxxorrax
In my region, Ikea is known for cheap furniture and their tasty currywurst.
They have plenty of other dishes of course and by my experience it is quite
good for what it pretends to be.

~~~
harimau777
I don't know if it's regional at all, but I recommend the Swedish meatballs.

Side note: I propose that vegan meatballs be called peatballs! (Peat is made
out of plants, correct? I'm not super knowledgable about that stuff.)

~~~
Mikeb85
Peat is this:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peat)

So no, doesn't really work well as a word for foodstuffs.

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ardit33
Fun fact, the chef René Redzepi is actually of Albanian origin. Hence he has
been infusing some of that cuisine into the restaurant's menu/ingredients....

Perhaps is what makes Noma so successful, as he has combined the best of two
cultures.... (Nordic and South Europe)

One of his Albanian 'students' opened a very successful restaurant in Tirana,
which is very delicious:

[https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g294446-d10080...](https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g294446-d10080738-Reviews-
Mullixhiu-Tirana_Tirana_County.html)

------
9nGQluzmnq3M
> land of herring cured in lye

This is not a thing. Yes, herring are cured, but not in lye. _Lutefisk_ is
made from large white fish (eg. cod), not herring, and it's best known as a
Norwegian dish. (Do Danes even eat the stuff?)

~~~
2rsf
Do Swedes even eat that stuff?

~~~
_Microft
Well, some Swedes eat Surströmming, that's ... umm 'bad' as well.

I heard a joke that went like this:

To eat Surströmming, you need three lakes. One lake to open the can in (so it
does not splash), another to rinse the fish and a third one to wash your hands
in. Then avoid bathing in these lakes for the next decade.

~~~
gambiting
>>Well, some Swedes eat Surströmming, that's ... umm 'bad' as well.

I don't get the hate about Surstroming. Had it in Sweden and I can totally see
enjoying it with some pickled gherkin and few shots of vodka. But then I'm
Polish so I'll eat pickled anything.

~~~
dijit
The problem is the smell and the fact people don't know how to handle it to
avoid the smell.

(Hint: for starters you have to open it under water people!)

