
The Way I Work: Justin Kan of Justin.tv - evansolomon
http://www.inc.com/magazine/20100701/the-way-i-work-justin-kan-of-justintv.html
======
pjhyett
"Lunch gets delivered to the office every day at noon. We asked our former
office manager to order lunch every day, because I didn't want to worry about
it. I just wanted food to show up. He did it for a year before starting his
own business, which now provides this service for us and for other start-ups
in the area, too."

Anyone have the name of this service?

~~~
arram
Hey PJ - that's me, the service is called ZeroCater.com Yeah, it was pretty
cool to be _almost_ mentioned in Inc.

Feel free to get in touch with me: a@zerocater.com

Thanks!

Arram

~~~
sachinag
I'd be hesitant to use your service without a referral. Your site doesn't list
your restaurants, your fees, or your happy clients. It's just a Google Doc
lead gen form. Why?

~~~
grasshoper
There's almost no selling going on on the website, so probably most of their
business spreads through word-of-mouth, with visitors to the site already
having been referred by happy clients. They also probably need to control how
many new clients they adopt to ensure they have adequate capacity before
scaling.

~~~
arram
Spot on. Almost anyone who sees the site has already met me or been referred
by one of my customers.

That said, clearly there's a lot of work to be done on the site.

~~~
alabut
Hey, I remember you from poker! Glad to see you're doing well. I'm assuming
zerocater's just for companies in SF at the moment, not someplace nearby like
Burlingame?

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fleaflicker
_My job is to help other people do their jobs well._

straight from the Spolsky school of management

[http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/DevelopmentAbstractio...](http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/DevelopmentAbstraction.html)

~~~
patrickk
+1 for that link. There's so much of Joel's writing, I don't know where to
begin ;-)

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jmintz
Any idea which book called "Influence" Justin was talking about? Looks like
there is more than one: [http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-
alias%3Dap...](http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-
alias%3Daps&field-keywords=influence&x=0&y=0).

~~~
abstractbill
It's this one: [http://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-
Busine...](http://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-Business-
Essentials/dp/006124189X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278451491&sr=1-1)

~~~
misterbwong
Similar tangent: Is this the Shogun book that Justin was talking about?
[http://www.amazon.com/Shogun-Tokugawa-Ieyasu-Tuttle-
Classics...](http://www.amazon.com/Shogun-Tokugawa-Ieyasu-Tuttle-
Classics/dp/4805310421/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278444219&sr=1-8)

~~~
arram
No, it's a fiction by James Clavel based on Tokugawa Ieyasu's life.

[http://www.amazon.com/Shogun-James-
Clavell/dp/0440178002/ref...](http://www.amazon.com/Shogun-James-
Clavell/dp/0440178002/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278456270&sr=1-1)

Highly recommended.

~~~
AmericanOP
I learned Chinese because of that damned book.

~~~
arram
Why Chinese? They're in Japan.

~~~
AmericanOP
I read it when I was really young, so it imprinted as an idyllic myth of
sorts. I discovered it was just one of a series (most of which take place in
China) later on in middle and high school, and by senior year I was reading
Water Margins and Romance of the Three Kingdoms in class. Learning Chinese was
especially trendy when I entered college in '05, so it seemed fun to dive into
something I had carried my whole life.

------
city41
I phone interviewed with Justin.tv soon after they launched. A good chunk of
the interview was asking me how I would use grep to solve various problems. It
was an interesting interview. I liked that they were clearly looking for
people that can get stuff done and didn't want to BS around about it.

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arnorhs
[http://www.inc.com/magazine/20100701/the-way-i-work-
justin-k...](http://www.inc.com/magazine/20100701/the-way-i-work-justin-kan-
of-justintv_Printer_Friendly.html)

Printer friendly version. All the text on one page with no ads.

~~~
pkaler
Just ⌘-⇧-R in Safari. No need to hunt for printer friendly versions.

~~~
arnorhs
Cool. You're talking about their readability rip off (I use readability all
the time). Does it also display the whole article on one page?

~~~
Zev
_You're talking about their readability rip off_

In Safari, if you go to Help and then Acknowledgements, Apple explicitly
mentions Arc90 and Readability.

 _Does it also display the whole article on one page?_

Safari automatically loads the second page when you get to the bottom of the
first one.

~~~
arnorhs
Nice, that's pretty sweet.

(I forgot about the fact that it was actually Readabililty, not simply a rip
off, sorry about that)

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evansolomon
I submitted page 2 by accident, here is page 1
[http://www.inc.com/magazine/20100701/the-way-i-work-
justin-k...](http://www.inc.com/magazine/20100701/the-way-i-work-justin-kan-
of-justintv.html)

~~~
ronnier
Looks like it was fixed by a moderator.

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bretpiatt
This article describes the difference between "a job" and "being paid to do
what you love". This doesn't mean you have to start your own company. It means
you need to find a team you enjoy working with where you get to do things each
day you where you get to do your best.

For work/life balance, it is about priorities and setting clear expectations
with your significant other. If you love working a lot and start dating don't
fake a shorter work week, don't fake that you'll make it home every night for
dinner at 5pm. For some people, it will be a deal breaker, and for others
they'll appreciate the time you do spend together because during that time
you'll be happy, fulfilled and fun to be around.

Would you rather have a SO that comes home every night at 5PM and does nothing
but complain about how horrible their day was until 9PM or that needs 4 hours
to decompress from work or would you rather have somebody that comes home at
9PM happy to see you with a positive attitude?

~~~
dan00
"This article describes the difference between 'a job' and 'being paid to do
what you love'."

Perhaps, but he says: It's just the way I was raised. So I think, it's more
cultural, that he only feels right, worth, if he's working.

There's nothing wrong to feel good when you're working, but there's something
wrong, if you feel bad when you're not working.

~~~
justin
I often times feel unsettled when not working -- even when I rationally know
that working more at that time isn't necessarily productive, efficient or
sustainable. That's probably not the most optimal attitude.

Also, I've debated it a lot, and at this point am not convinced that working
all the time == success, having seen many examples both ways. Consequently I
find it pretty hard to justify telling people to work all the time now (in
order to achieve success), and in order to justify however much I'm working I
just say that I think it is the moral thing to do.

------
bbhacker
Is anyone aware of the long-term effects of taking melatonin before you go to
bed every night? Just curious, maybe worth a try?

~~~
rms
Your body will naturally produce less melatonin at sleep time. It adjusts back
if you stop taking melatonin. This isn't an issue at the doctor recommended
1mg dosage of melatonin, but at 3mg it is and most melatonin pills are 3mg.

As a fake doctor of herbal medicine, my recommendation is to take 1mg of
melatonin when you want it, not 3mg. Also, if you take it sublingually
(letting it dissolve under your tongue) it takes effect right away.

~~~
Psyonic
Interesting. I generally take 3mg, and I think I pretty much need it at this
point. I may try and lower my dosage over time. That said, are there any
negative effects from relying on melatonin? Sure, maybe I can't sleep well
without it, but having access to it isn't much of a problem.

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freshfey
Justin, how do you help the engineers on their problems if you say yourself
that you're not that much of a programmer?

~~~
justin
I'm not a great programmer, but:

\- I'm a pretty decent web developer

\- I have a lot of web development experience and often times can solve web
related problems with little direct knowledge of the particular code

\- Generally scaling problems all follow the same patterns and really there
are only a few things that go wrong on websites

\- I am a decent communicator and can help communicate ideas (whether they are
my own or others)

\- I have a good sense of timing around the work flow of web development, and
can help line things up (design meetings, QA resources, releases) around the
work flow of developers

\- I can be a sounding board for technical ideas

\- I can record a brainstorming / design meeting and turn it into a spec
(although I could probably be better at spec writing!)

\- I can help people get excited about an idea

When I started Kiko with Emmett 5 years ago I could barely do any web
development at all (don't tell PG!). Since then, I think I've become quite
adept at building web apps (and some of those skills even apply to mobile
apps). That's not to say I'm exceptional -- I think most people should be able
to learn something in 5 years! However, I've noticed that there are a lot of
people in the tech startup / HN community that don't necessarily have a ton of
programming experience but want to launch tech startups. There are quite a few
examples among my friends of people who have done that successfully --
building web apps isn't just about programming.

~~~
freshfey
Wow, thanks for clearing that up! I'm really in that position right now, great
to hear that from you.

------
vinhboy
7am - 11pm? So do you have make a lot of sacrifices with your personal life?
Like girlfriend, wife, family?

Also, why did you decide to act on the whole "professionalism" feedback? Did
you just thought it would be fun, or did you notice it was affecting the
company?

I envy your drive. Amazing really.

~~~
abstractbill
_7am - 11pm? So do you have make a lot of sacrifices with your personal life?
Like girlfriend, wife, family?_

No one person at justin.tv works those hours (and the article didn't say
that).

Many people worked long hours in the early days (when I first started here, I
worked 12 hours on weekdays, and 8 hours each on Saturday and Sunday). I
haven't done that in a while though - it isn't sustainable.

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vollmond
Glad to see some love for Iain M. Banks. Easily my favorite scifi author at
the moment.

------
ojbyrne
Justin TV in May 2007: <http://www.flickr.com/photos/ojbyrne/505415469/>

I remember it being a little more informal than the Inc picture suggests, but
look - dress shirt.

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herdrick
Justin wears a suit now?

~~~
justin
Only some days, and rarely now that it's the summer and our office doesn't
have AC. Seriously though, I definitely feel a lot better on days I wear a
shirt and tie to work, especially since it is a very marked contrast from the
rest of Valley culture.

~~~
herdrick
_since it is a very marked contrast from the rest of Valley culture_

I think you're onto something there. The typical valley firm has almost as
much of a uniform as a bank.

The subversive suit. Interesting.

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Psyonic
The folks in the picture don't look terribly happy to be following him around.
The guy in the black jacket looks damn near depressed.

That said, I'm sure it's just the picture. I actually like walking meetings
most of the time. And I find Justin's attitude inspiring.

~~~
justin
The photo was staged. That shot was probably the 15th or 16th time we walked
past that garage, so I'm pretty sure no one was extremely happy at that point
:)

~~~
Psyonic
Makes sense. I should have considered that possibility, but being featured in
articles is something I haven't had the chance to experience yet ;)

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samd
I thought they chose _Just In TV_ because streaming content is always just in,
but it awkwardly sounded like someone's name. Now it's awkward for a different
reason: what does that guy's name have to do with streaming internet TV?

~~~
jey
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin.tv#Lifecasting_origins>

