
Microsoft leak reveals new Windows 10 Workstation edition for power users - rl3
https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/5/15739192/microsoft-windows-10-pro-for-workstations-advanced-pcs-features
======
43224gg252
As a power user, I hope this doesn't ship with ads and telemetry enabled. It's
things like that that pushed me away from windows and towards Linux. If
Microsoft had never participated in the NSA PRISM program I would have never
decided to "just try this Linux thing out" and I'd probably still be a windows
user.

I think at this point they'll have to do more than get rid of ads and
telemetry to get me (and others) to switch back. Linux turned out to be much
more stable than Windows for me, and after experiencing package management and
sane update policies I can't go back to an OS that won't even let me use it
while it's installing updates.

When I sit and try to make a list of reasons to use Windows it seems to come
down to program compatibility and not operating system quality. Instead of
trapping people on an OS because of vendor lock-in, try improving core parts
of the OS to make it worth using.

~~~
toxican
What it comes down to for me is that I can do my job (web development) on
Windows just fine. But I'm going to spend the entire time trying to trick
Windows into doing Linux things. Mintty for terminal stuff, VMs or the new
Ubuntu mode for Linux software, etc. And yes, that works, but it feels hacky,
performance is so-so, and it takes considerably more time to setup than the
native alternative.

The inverse of that is that all I need Windows for is Adobe stuff and Outlook
(we use Exchange for mail, meeting scheduling, tasks etc.), which all run
perfectly fine in a Windows VM with minimal resources. The only real extra
setup involved there is running the Windows installer, which takes like 20
minutes tops.

So what's left to compel me to use Windows? The UI? Admittedly, I feel a bit
more zippy in Windows than I do Linux, but Kubuntu feels pretty damn close and
I kind of prefer its UI over Windows' at this point.

~~~
zvrba
> But I'm going to spend the entire time trying to trick Windows into doing
> Linux things. Mintty for terminal stuff, VMs or the new Ubuntu mode for
> Linux software, etc.

Windows is not UNIX and that's its strength. Don't try to coerce it into doing
Linux things; learn Powershell and Windows concepts instead. I've recently
switched development from Linux to Windows and couldn't be happier.

~~~
43224gg252
>Windows is not UNIX and that's its strength.

Microsoft seems to disagree, which is why they felt compelled to include a
Linux sub-system in Windows.

~~~
Houshalter
And does the existence of Wine prove that Linux is inferior? It's just nice to
have a way to run software written for other systems. Doesn't mean you think
that system is superior.

~~~
seanp2k2
There is a small difference in first vs third party here. Wine is more
analogous to virtualbox. WSL AFAIK was done to attract developers.

------
marklyon
They really need to fire their VP of SKUs. Creating that role has resulted in
far too much unnecessary fragmentation.

At this point, it's like she's just trying to justify her position.

~~~
kawsper
I dare you to go explore their ERP offerings. It is impossible to grasp, and
if you ask for help, your support request will be redirected to one of your
local third-party Microsoft partners.

~~~
UK-AL
As far as I know, every ERP vendor is like this. They all work via partners.

~~~
komali2
When everybody is a partner...

------
1024core
Why does Microsoft have to waste so many resources coming up with a dozen
different "editions" ?

I remember (back in the day) Windows NT came in "desktop" and "server"
editions. Someone did some digging, and it turned out the difference was 2
registry keys, whose settings were checked at boot time, and depending on the
settings, the "server" or "desktop" editions were created.

Times have changed; Microsoft needs to change too.

~~~
bborud
From time to time (every 2 years or so) I make an attempt at buying a Windows
license in order to run some program that only runs on windows. In 10 years (5
or so attempts) I have yet to figure out what edition of Windows I want, how
to buy it and how to download an ISO image of it so I can load it into a
VMWare image. Every time I realize that the effort just isn't worth it so I
give up.

I just want an OS that works. So I use OSX and I use Linux. Where I don't have
to care much about what I'm running. At most I have to occasionally care about
the revision I'm running being a bit old. But there's no nonsense with
different editions that I need to waste time on.

------
dzdt
Everything I know about business I learned from Joel on Software. This sounds
to me like trying to sell (essentially) the same product at a higher price
point to users who are willing to pay more, to maximize profits. See Joel's
"Camels and Rubber Duckies":
[https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/12/15/camels-and-
rubber-...](https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/12/15/camels-and-rubber-
duckies/)

~~~
marcosdumay
It's called market segmentation.

MS does this to windows since... I'd say since Windows was a thing, but I
don't know how they sold versions 1 and 2. So, since Windows 3.

Yet, if you segment your market too much, people stop knowing the segment they
belong, and stop playing the game.

~~~
dmead
they spent the early years (including 3.x) competing with ibm. note the "power
windows" language on the side pic

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_1.0](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_1.0)

------
Sir_Substance
The notion of "Developer editions" and "Power User editions" of windows really
bothers me. I discovered a love of computers and IT from having my own
computer with windows 98 and just fucking around on it.

I destroyed the OS on that computer at least twice by doing stupid things like
deleting DLL's in the windows folder because 8 year old me decided he "didn't
need them" and bypassed the system file protection, but apparently that's part
of learning to use and understand computers. Certainly it taught me how to
install a new OS, which opened up a world of new OS's to me, which brought me
to VM's, which inexorably lead to experimenting with hosting services, which
lead to sysadmin skills, and so on.

Considering Microsoft is operating in and even leading an industry that
alleges it is slowly starving to death from lack of new talent, creating
versions of the OS with anything less than 100% control seems like a really
stupid long term move. How are people supposed to form an intuitive grasp of
the potential of general purpose computers if they grow up with machines that
say "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that"?

~~~
monochromatic
An administrator account can still do all that.

~~~
HelloNurse
I understand you stopped using Windows several versions ago.

~~~
monochromatic
Nope. I'm on 10. What are you not able to do as an administrator?

~~~
HelloNurse
Windows 7 is already full of magical folders and processes that an
administrator is supposed to leave alone.

~~~
monochromatic
You can take ownership of any folder and do whatever you want to its contents.
The fact that Windows tries to protect you from doing something dumb (but gets
out of your way if you're sure) is probably a good thing.

------
15charlimit
Still no actual control over what data they suck up and keep for who-knows how
long and sell to anyone who asks? Still no actual control over what updates
happen, when?

Still don't care about W10.

~~~
SippinLean
The same telemetry is in 7, and you can Defer Feature Updates in 10.

------
ericfrederich
Haha... "workstation mode". Didn't everyone who tested "Game Mode" on Windows
10 creators update come to the conclusion that it didn't do anything?

~~~
artimaeis
One of the features of the Windows 10 Game Mode is that it raises the thread
priority of the application. This proved incredibly useful for me in some
games - most notably GTA 5 - and in a lot of other games it didn't seem to do
anything at all. I'm pretty thankful for the feature - because manually
raising the thread priority every time I open the application was a very
unnecessary pain.

~~~
revelation
Windows has raised the thread priority of the foreground program since at
least 95...

~~~
vonmoltke
That mechanism only boosts the priority of whatever thread is actually
attached to the window in the foreground. This doesn't matter for single-
threaded applications (obviously), but means the background threads can get
lower priority than the main threads of other applications.

------
rl3
Hopefully they disabled all the telemetry and advertising crap.

~~~
richardwhiuk
Hopefully all of the websites I visit have disabled all of their telemetry as
well, but I doubt it.

~~~
8draco8
Operating system is not website. I don't want my system to be sanding any data
anywhere without my knowledge. Currently operating systems are used for
handling various of very sensitive and potentially dangerous information
(credit card details, bank accounts, SSNs, tax returns etc). There is tons of
informations on computers that can cause a lot of problems if used by bad
people. Blocking unknown and unnecessary traffic and strong encryption is our
best bet against cyber criminals.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
I keep seeing this nonsense about how operating systems and web services are
different as a way of suggesting Google's behavior is okay but Microsoft's is
not. Almost all of the data you deal with on your computer in the modern era
eventually ends up traversing the Internet. You enter your SSNs into forms to
pay bills and the like, your credit card details are entered into your browser
to buy stuff online.

All of this can potentially be inspected by Google if you use their platforms
or services.

There's really no difference here. Condemn Microsoft, condemn Google. Be upset
both have defined your privacy as unimportant.

~~~
oculusthrift
the double standard is simply better PR by one company. Not to mention half of
HN either works at goog or wants to. Add in the historical hate for MS and it
really starts to make sense. Apple or google could literally start forcing
users to give blood samples and you wouldn't hear a peep.

~~~
Can_Not
No it's not simply better PR. That's completely absurd. One of them is a
website I optionally go-to occasionally, the other is unremovable shitware on
_my personal computer_.

------
technofiend
It's not perfect but the tron script will turn off a lot of the more
objectionable MS services.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/TronScript/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TronScript/)

Personally I just boot into Linux unless I'm streaming (Netflix 720p on Linux,
boo), playing Civilization or doing my taxes.

~~~
seanp2k2
Blackbird is another similar thing:
[http://www.getblackbird.net/documentation/](http://www.getblackbird.net/documentation/)

------
youdontknowtho
The features that they mention...SMB Direct, large memory, more sockets,
REFS...are great, but I think that they should only have one client SKU.

Also, it should have a telemetry manager that applications have to use for
sending telemetry data to Microsoft. It should have UI and PowerShell cmdlets
that help people see the data that's being collected. It should have a global
off switch for people that are concerned about it.

I tend to think that things like telemetry or "swarm" downloading of updates
and patches are good things. I know that's not popular. I think that they need
to be far more transparent about that stuff to make privacy concerned people
happy.

Also, there are some people that are never going to like Microsoft, Windows,
or anything that they do. I kind of wish those people were less involved in
the conversation. If you aren't going to use their stuff, why should they
listen to your feedback?

------
Already__Taken
ReFS as a boot drive file system? That'll be the proofing for it by default
from server 2019 onwards. Every three years is LTS/Server cut from current
branch I thought I read.

------
Aoyagi
The only version of Windows 10 I'm interested in is the one where it is I who
is mostly in control, or, you know, be the power user, not just some power
sheep.

------
ericfrederich
"Resilient file system"... sorry, if you want professionals to use and trust
your new filesystem you should give it to end users first; wider audience.
Then the pros will pick it up.

------
faragon
How billing for socket/CPU could matter anymore with 16 core CPUs (32 SMT)
with many DDR4 memory channels going to hit the market during this summer [1]?

[1] [https://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyleather/2017/05/17/amd-
an...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyleather/2017/05/17/amd-
announces-16-core-threadripper-desktop-cpus-to-do-battle-with-intel-x299-and-
skylake-x/)

~~~
Already__Taken
MS need to drop the crazy minimum requirement for licences of 8 * 2 core packs
per server. Otherwise the pricing seems to work. It feels like they're forcing
smaller customers to buy Azure instead of paying a fair price for the
software.

~~~
digi_owl
That is basically what is going on. MS i getting out of the shrink-wrapped
software market, and trying to push everyone towards SAAS. This by either
crippling local software or putting nagware everywhere.

------
appleflaxen
Adding SKUs to a product line that is already confusing to non-windows users
is not going to help them win back market share.

it might help them wring more cash out of already-windows-users who need these
new features. but those users will be glancing to the side and noticing all
the features packed in for free by OSX and linux, and without a malignant
upgrade process.

------
epalmer
> Workstation mode: Microsoft plans to optimize the OS by identifying “typical
> compute and graphics intensive workloads” to provide peak performance and
> reliability when Workstation mode is enabled.

Shouldn't reliability always be as high as possible? Why would workstation
users get more reliable operation than anyone else?

~~~
Joeri
Reliability could also mean reliable performance, where the power saving
functionality gets dialed down.

But probably this was written by some marketing guy with only half a clue.

------
valarauca1
This sound a bit like horseshit.

Win10 Pro supports 2 CPU sockets and all cores within them. Expanding this up
to 4 sockets seems to undercut their server market as past 2 sockets Win10
Server charges per socket.

------
nippples
It's not an actual leak, this is just native advertisement.

------
SN76477
10 is garbage. The start button doesn't even do what it should most of the
time.

I feel tricked into using the worlds worst OS.

------
vesak
In 2017, a piece of software is decidedly _not_ for power users unless it's
open source.

------
quickben
Is this why my win 7 ultimate, got upgraded to 'pro'?

MS is really outdoing themself lately.

------
mtgx
Does ReFS support native encryption like Apple's new filesystem does? What's
keeping Microsoft from enabling encryption for all Windows users by default,
other than nickle and diming them for it by forcing them to choose more
expensive versions of Windows if they want full disk encryption?

Windows is pretty much the only OS left that doesn't support encryption by
default.

~~~
nkvoll
Isn't BitLocker
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitLocker](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitLocker))
how Windows supports full disk encryption by default (shipped with Vista and
later)?

From an end-user perspective it seems to behave very transparent as well. In
what way does it come up short?

~~~
kefka
> BitLocker.... In what way does it come up short?

By forcing an escrow key linked to Microsoft and whomever owns the TPM on your
computer.

By definition, backdoor keys and hidden users who can access encrypted content
is just absolutely, horribly wrong. And there's no way to turn it off... Well,
I'm sure someone will say there's 10 regkeys to change that _might_ fix it on
a specific version.

Still does nothing regarding the "trust" with the TPM.

~~~
Karunamon
What do you mean linked to Microsoft? And if your TPM, the hardware device
that stores keys, is pwned, the whole exercise is meaningless anyways

~~~
kuschku
The TPM is pwned, by default. It's closed, secret, and as the AMT issuws
showed, has a lot of software running in it with questionable security.

That's why the whole excercise is meaningless if you leave the keys on the
device, and why you should put them on external hardware TPMs or key vaults.
Even a YubiKey is better.

Now you just need a system that supports reading keys from such a device
during boot.

~~~
izacus
You can use YubiKey to store BitLocker decryption key.

~~~
kuschku
And? That still allows MS to decrypt the drive.

~~~
Karunamon
False. You are given a _non-default_ option to upload a backup of your
Bitlocker key to Onedrive. By what evidence are you claiming Microsoft gets to
decrypt the drive if this option isn't selected?

