
Helpouts by Google - GFuller
https://helpouts.google.com/welcome
======
user24
Sorry Google. You've lost my enthusiasm.

Why would I invest the time into learning how this works, trying to become
part of the community etc when I can be pretty sure that they're just going to
shut it down in a few years time?

~~~
DominikR
It's interesting that so many here are furious about Google pivoting or
shutting down some parts of its business considering that this forum is about
technology and startups/business.

When did it become wrong to test a product, and shut it down if it fails?

Why is it evil when Google does that, but okay when a startup does the exact
same thing?

~~~
anon1385
Well I'm certainly critical of startups that have no plan to create a viable
business and are just hoping to get bought out, but startups are not all like
that. Plenty are trying to create viable businesses.

The difference between Google and the serious startups is that they have a
record of launching products with no plan or intention to make money from
them: they are loss leaders to bring more people into the Google walled
garden. A lot of people didn't realise that in the past. People used these
product knowing they weren't a money earner for Google, but people assumed
Google was tying to be a good citizen and provide useful services for people.
Using up the piles of money sloshing around at Google. People treat(ed) things
like reader or gmail as basic infrastructure. Google enjoyed being treated
like the benevolent dictator of the internet. We paid our 'taxes' in the form
of ads and in return got lots of services and infrastructure for free. I heard
countless people making the argument that Google's interests were
intrinsically aligned with those of internet users: there was no way that
giving more money and power to Google could ever go wrong.

It was totally wrong for people to think that way: corporations do not operate
in the public interest. I think it's easy to understand the emotional
backlash: people don't like to be made fools of. What they thought was
benevolence turned out to be a PR exercise, or worse, a landgrab.

~~~
DominikR
That's an interesting point you are making.

I can't rule that possibilty out, but I have also never seen evidence that
suggested they created Reader with that intent.

Can't it be that Google tried to push adoption of a technology, believing that
it would benefit them in the future?

Or that they believed that they would come up with a business model, given
enough users.

You are right to be critical about startups without viable business - so am I
- but don't forget: Google was that kind of startup for a few years

------
downandout
I think Google will be shocked at how little usage this gets. Having founded a
couple of ventures aimed at helping people make money online, I can
conclusively say that it is much easier, for example, to convince someone to
play a casual game online and waste their time than to convince them to join a
site where they may be paid for their time. For whatever reason, it is
incredibly difficult to get talented people interested in new ways to connect
with people that will pay for those talents.

~~~
VikingCoder
Oh ye of little imagination.

I go to Google Search, and I type in some phrase. The search results happen to
not really have any great answers. And down at the bottom of the page is this
nice little link that says, "Can't find what you're looking for? Care to ask
an Expert?" Out of curiosity, you click it, and it takes you to the Helpouts
page.

If they allow people to set their price at $0, some people will just do it out
of altruism / reputation. (Think of Stack Overflow karma and badges.)

I could picture Open Source projects using $0 Helpouts, to encourage use - in
helping new users configure, in helping users solve problems, in helping
developers contribute. It'd be like an IRC channel. Especially if we can
invite multiple people to the Helpout, like we can with Hangouts.

I can see businesses using it, as a way to reach Customer Support, when
another business or high-end consumer wants to ask a question that they're
willing to pay for.

EDIT:

Picture this, "Carmack Thursdays." On Thursday evenings, John Carmack agrees
to do $1000 Helpouts, and donates all of the proceeds to a charity of his
choice.

Linus Torvalds, Bruce Schneier, Jim Carrey, Ron Paul doing fundraising for a
campaign, Markus Persson, Jeff Atwood, Justin Bieber, Lady Gaga, James Lipton,
Tyra Banks, Kevin Smith, Venture Capitalists like the Y-Combinator folks...

If they get the right people to do Helpouts, it could be huge.

Like a one-on-one Reddit Ask Me Anything, where you pay to get backstage
passes.

~~~
gcb0
Sounds nice, but this will mostly become a phone sex service and everyone
knows it.

Like internet forums freed hookers from their pimps this will free camgirls
from cam sites.

~~~
sachinag
Actually, I'd wager otherwise. It'll be for psychics. Keen.com was this (voice
only, all experts) back in the 90s. Ended up being entirely psychics.

~~~
RyJones
so, Keen worked to model - it connected experts in getting money from people
(psychics) with people having surplus money to get.

In a less snarky vein, if that's what people want to pay for, perhaps enabling
that market in an honest way is what people should do? I know a guy that
funded his telecom startup by selling custom prompts for phone sex lines.

------
polemic
Anyone else thing this is ironic coming from Google, a company notoriously
difficult to get assistance with their own products?

~~~
midko
No. (Haven't we filled the whine-quota about Google for this month yet?)

Here's a more civil answer that does not convey what I think such whines
should be treated with here. No, I don't find it ironical. In fact, I think
it's great precisely because they have bad customer support. It means they
recognize such problems and do want to improve things (sure, maybe with profit
in mind. What's wrong with that). Yes, helpouts does not change their customer
support the slightest bit. But how much of an issue is it for non-tech people,
compared to any other kind of expert help one may need, ? Look outside the
tech bubble for a second. I quite agree with kolya3's comment.

It's safe to say that part of the reason why Google has such a notoriously bad
customer support is the scale at which they operate. And what do they do? They
solve a much bigger problem with precisely this same scale. Isn't that at the
very core of what Google does, is about, is?! For good and bad, Google ==
scale. So no, I don't find it ironical. I think it is exactly the kind of
thing they should do. It doesn't matter if this works or not, does not matter
if it's killed in 6 months or not, it does not matter if the NSA sees that a
guy showed you how to flip pizza dough in the air. It is precisely the kind of
attitude they should have.

Last thing. I look at the comments in this thread and it's bitter negativity
all the way down. Can seriously none of you see any value in this?! None of
you, members and readers of this community about __STARTUPS __see any business
opportunity here?! A chance to create value and grow?! And no, just because it
may get killed soon does not immediately mean such opportunity should be
ignored. For a niche business leveraging Google 's userbase even for a month
can mean massive growth. If the service dies, so what, your new clients
already know you exist and (hopefully) satisfied with your work.

~~~
snom380
The bitterness isn't towards the product or the idea, it's toward Google, and
for good reason considering their track record with side projects such as
this. It's like hearing a drug addict tell you they've cleaned up for the 5th
time. After a while you just keep a cautious distance.

~~~
midko
I understand it, and I am quite disappointed myself. But that does not mean I
should have a reflex reaction to anything they do. That simply limits myself
and has no effect on them. (as stated by others, we are a tiny blob in
Google's userbase. Our negativity does not even tickle them)

~~~
fhd2
> That simply limits myself and has no effect on them. (as stated by others,
> we are a tiny blob in Google's userbase. Our negativity does not even tickle
> them)

So just because Google doesn't care, people shouldn't complain? With that very
same logic, nobody on HN should go voting, we're just a tiny blob of the
world's population anyway, right?

------
wolfden
I think this isn't meant to be just a service on its own. It's something that
will only come to life when Glass is out.

I stumbled upon this video
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYJuCZr67VE](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYJuCZr67VE)
and now believe that this format is going to be wonderful for anyone trying to
learn things. Google building in a backbone platform for it makes it all the
better.

~~~
patrickaljord
Thanks for being the only on-topic, interesting comment of the whole thread.
This is really depressing. And yes, I think this could be really great with
Google Glass, especially for medical stuff or cooking.

------
rdl
I remember ~5 years ago when Skype offered this, with integrated payment. It
got used mainly for video phone sex and was quietly abandoned, IIRC (very
imperfect memory on this, and never used the service myself).

~~~
jbmartin
I wonder if there's a more general issue with public video services getting
abused by adult content. Interesting to see how (if?) Google deals with this
problem...

~~~
__alexs
How is it abuse exactly? Live consenting naked people in exchange for money is
not illegal in much of the world.

~~~
gizzlon
Guess if you try to get help fixing your bike and get a big penis :)

------
emhart
I signed up. My main skill is opening/troubleshooting locks, and I think it
would be an interesting experiment to see, A. if they would allow me to be a
helper, and B. to test my efficacy as a digital locksmith.

I've successfully had vicarious openings via both voice & text, so video seems
like it would be even better.

I have no opinion on whether or not this should exist, whether google will
shut it down, whether it will be effective, etc.

~~~
alan_cx
I hope you never accidentally advise a criminal and get metadata linked to a
crime.

~~~
emhart
I'm actually very curious about that sort of thing which is why I find A
particularly interesting. My assumption is that Google would just avoid the
headache altogether, but one of the rarely spoken truths about teaching
physical security is that your students may have malicious intent. You apply
whatever social screening you can, but at the end of the day, bad people exist
and some pass pretty well for good people.

When doing a proper lockout I can take IDs, have people sign things, etc. all
of which have (in general, not in my personal experience) failed on one level
or another and the modern history of locksmithing is rife with tragic stories
of locksmiths unwittingly helping absolutely terrible people.

Some means of identification/authentication would certainly be possible with
Helpers, but again, I cannot imagine Google would engage in the headache of
adding that layer.

------
dodyg
Somebody please start the cancellation countdown clock.

~~~
lukedjn
I agree. The fact that I'm signed in with my Google account and it still asks
me for my name and e-mail address makes me think this isn't (going to be) a
serious part of Google, it seems very much like a 20% project that slipped
through.

~~~
dodyg
If you are Google now, you don't get to ask people to show 'interest'. Open it
up already and have people try it. Don't monkey around.

------
gonvaled
\- Are the helpouts NSA approved?

\- Will I get in trouble depending on which people I want to help?

\- Will I get in trouble depending on what activities are the people I help
involved into?

No, thanks.

~~~
hahainternet
Could you try any harder to smash two unrelated stories together?

~~~
gonvaled
You do not get it, do you?

A couple of months ago, the default was "I trust this company, unless I have
evidence of the contrary". Now the default has _radically_ changed: "I do not
trust this company, unless I have __very strong __evidence of the contrary;
and even then, I might not trust them, because they could be forced to lie "

So the internet is now a medium without trust. The less I do there, the
better.

~~~
hahainternet
> A couple of months ago, the default was "I trust this company, unless I have
> evidence of the contrary". Now the default has radically changed:

You should probably talk to a professional about this. Distrusting everyone is
paranoia and a dangerous attitude.

~~~
gonvaled
"It is not paranoia if they really are out to get you"

But I'll take your advice and visit my psychiatrist. In the meantime, no
google helpouts for me. I mean, I can probably pass on this one. And on the
next one. Why take any risks?

~~~
hahainternet
> Why take any risks?

Why leave the house at all? Everything has risks, but it sounded like you were
being quite paranoid and I meant what I said with a kind heart.

~~~
gonvaled
Well, that is the point. I leave my house every day, even though I know lots
of bad things can happen to me, just because I am more or less in control of
the risks. If one day I wake up hearing that people are randomly being being
stabbed, pots are falling en-masse from balconies for unknown reasons, people
are being abducted without leaving trail and so on, at some point I'll start
considering staying at home. Not yet the case (at least in my country).

In the internet, I am not in control of the risks anymore. I do not even know
who is lying to me. Can I even trust the government? Obviously not! They
__even __have laws forbidding to talk about what they are doing. Is this a
democracy? Whatever ...

I'll stay at home for a while, thanks.

------
marknutter
I had the same idea when Apple's Facetime came out. I thought it might be
feasible to build a business around video-chatting with experts around the
world, but then Apple reneged on the openness of the Facetime platform. Good
luck to Google, I think it's an idea that has merit.

------
misnome
Sounds interesting. I can see a potential usage in remote tutoring. Parents
set up their kids, who don't understand something, and use it to speak to
someone qualified (you could have pre-approved lists or groups of people). And
by virtue of being google, it has a large potential audience.

The potential for abuse would have to be carefully monitored/considered, of
course.

------
lnanek2
Joel Spolsky's help company did quite well. Not sure Google is technically
capable of pulling this off, though. Was trying to use Hangouts all last
weekend and half the people in the hangout couldn't get messages no matter
what. The half we did get working involved bizarre dances of everyone going to
each other's page to say hi before messages magically started coming through.
All were shown as in the hangout, though.

They threw out a good working system in Google Talk that even had people
contacting me from other chat clients and platforms, like iPhone. Now they
can't even get chatting inside their own platform working. I'm sure any effort
by engineers to get this working would just immediately by quashed by the
useless biz guys who control Google now.

------
JacobAldridge
Reminds me of Minutebox - it looks like founder Josh Liu (great guy - I met
him in London a few years ago) has moved on, and while the website no longer
exist this scathing TechCrunch analysis of the concept (from 2008) still does
- [http://techcrunch.com/2008/05/20/minutebox-does-not-box-
clev...](http://techcrunch.com/2008/05/20/minutebox-does-not-box-clever/)

How will the 'Google' factor impact / advance the business concept?

------
hrktb
This would need enormous amount of human time for moderation, user support and
general community management. I wonder how it went on these fronts for
Google+. I don't use it actively, and from my own echo chamber not many people
seem to be using it, so not a good data point. For now, the only effort in
this kind of product that work well seems to be Yahoo answers. It would be
interesting to see the details of what Google is up to.

------
abrahamsen
I guess the 20% projects are not quite dead yet. It very much looks like
something created by one or more enthusiastic employees, and not a strategic
move mandated from above.

Yes, there is a better than even chance that this will go nowhere like knoll,
but could we please give it a chance to prove itself before shutting it down?

------
mithaler
I still remember using Aardvark, which got shut down shortly after Google
acquired it. This seems to be similar.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aardvark_(search_engine)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aardvark_\(search_engine\))

------
bugmen0t
There's a pluggable no-login audio-version of this already present today:
Mozilla's TowTruck:
[https://towtruck.mozillalabs.com/](https://towtruck.mozillalabs.com/)

------
Brajeshwar
Oh! I double-checked if I'm back in the past in Aug, 20013 and not in the real
world where Google just announced Helpouts on Apr 1, 2014. I'm sorry but the
name sounded such.

------
planetjones
I don't what others' experience of Google Hangouts is, but mine is poor
quality and frustration. Maybe that's caused by network connectivity, which
device is being used, etc. Not that it's much better on skype...

I am not sure if the concept of getting paid for help via Hangouts is
something the technology is reliable or high enough quality for at the moment.

My prediction: this is just a gimmick which will go the way of Google Wave

------
yesplorer
I don't understand Google. They are closing down most projects, including
those that have traction because, according to Larry Page, the want to rally
around core projects. If that is the case why this?

All this is going to do is kill the motivation of freelancing sites because
the dinosaur has entered the room and definitely kill some of them. Yet I
doubt they are going to be that of a big player in that niche. __sigh __

------
daniel_iversen
When Google acquired and kills of such a similar thing and as awesome and
universally useful and (hopefully/seamingly) altruistic initiative as Aardvark
(vark.com) was, why do we believe that this new "Helpouts" will stick around
and people should invest time and energy in contributing to it?

------
webwanderings
I need help changing my kitchen faucet. My options are: a) DIY, b) arrange
proportionally large amount of cash and call the professional help.

Am I going to use Google as my option C? I really doubt, because there is a
good chance Google will be arranging the same option B above. So what is the
point?

------
keefebowl
Looks a lot like [http://www.liveninja.com](http://www.liveninja.com)

------
pella
[http://thenextweb.com/google/2013/07/25/google-reportedly-
wo...](http://thenextweb.com/google/2013/07/25/google-reportedly-working-on-
helpouts-a-marketplace-for-sharing-skills-over-live-video/)

------
ck2
My first thought "what could possibly go wrong with live 1-to-1 video".

------
marcin
With the Youtube audience, this could nicely turn into new stream of live
shows/reality TV where everyone can participate.

------
rebelidealist
Which division at Google is in charge of deciding what new projects to start?
I'm wondering since the 20% time is gone.

------
johnx123-up
Looking similar to [http://ace.dev.agriya.com/](http://ace.dev.agriya.com/)

------
ahk
Looks like a broader version of the 7 Cups of Tea service. Weird how these
things come out nearly at the same time.

------
Peroni
Interesting. I'm surprised the categories listed are so vague. I partly
expected it to be tech orientated.

------
kmfrk
This could be a trial balloon to see whether people would want to use Google
Glass for something like this.

------
est
I am interested how would customer, provider and Google handle VATs. This
could go wrong in so many ways.

~~~
Jyaif
Isn't that the same problem as selling android apps?

------
scragg
If only ISPs would offer an upstream worth a damn, video streaming would be
much more fun.

------
appleflaxen
This would look really interesting if it weren't Google. Why do I want to
invest my time, energy, and effort into creating their content. Even if I get
paid for my time, I get no "warm fuzzy" feeling of goodwill, because Google is
the middle man.

------
oellegaard
No thanks, I'd rather not tell Google more that can help them sell me targeted
ads, which they conveniently insert in my inbox, looking like real e-mail.

~~~
andybak
and the Most Predictable Criticism of Google award goes to...

------
cloudwalking
Aardvark 2.0 ?

~~~
nine_k
On Aardvark there was no way (I knew of) to pay for answers.

I was pretty sad when Google bought and closed Aardvark. If they somehow
resurrect it in this form, maybe its death was not in vain :)

------
unz
This is amazing. Google will really do well with this, they need to branch
into ecommerce as their ad business isn't growing much.

With mobile gaining traction, this could be a central hub for a decentralized
solopreneur economy, even inside corporations. You can consult your lawyer,
accountant, doctor, pharmacist right from your tablet and be charged through
this interface. Even better, your lawyer/doctor etc. is based in india and
charge a 10th of the cost. Also, great to watch and charge babysitters,
mechanics, cleaners etc. Also, supervising factory workers in china. The
factory has telecommute robot for rent floating around and you log in and do
some checking on your product being produced.

If google record and analyze the videos, they could even run some machine
learning on this and turn into automated robots that carry out the task.

Great idea, an app store for people peddling that could turn into an
artificial intelligence robot.

~~~
RDeckard
Didn't they already have a similar service (similar to Yahoo Answers, but I
forget the name), where people got paid to answer other people's questions?
Only for the service to be shutdown some years later. Anyone remember the
name?

~~~
gummydude
Google Answers. lol

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Answers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Answers)

