
USB-C Has Finally Come into Its Own - headalgorithm
https://www.wired.com/story/usb-c-surface-pro-kindle-ps5-iphone-standard/
======
denormalfloat
I didn't come to appreciate the power of USB-C until I started using it with
my laptop. It is a _single_ cable that connects to my monitor, powers the
laptop, provides USB access to the keyboard and mouse, and to the hub on the
monitor. This is a big enough improvement to the desktop-style workflow, since
there is only a single wire, and no docking station. It's trivial to jump
between desktop mode and laptop mode. That's usability changing experience
with USB-C.

~~~
paulgb
It's really great for travel. I can bring one charger that works for my phone,
my MacBook, and my work PC.

Ironically, one of the reasons I went with Android instead of iPhone last time
I bought a phone was that I could use my MacBook charger with it.

~~~
reustle
Don't you need to be really careful with which chargers you use with each
device, regardless of the cable type? Pretty sure USB-C headphones shouldn't
be charged with a USB-C Macbook Pro wall charger.

~~~
cesarb
> Pretty sure USB-C headphones shouldn't be charged with a USB-C Macbook Pro
> wall charger.

Unless explicitly negotiated by both ends, every USB-C charger outputs the
same boring 5 volts as classic USB, so the headphones should charge just fine.

~~~
berbec
The major exception to this is the Nintendo Switch that, due to shit design on
Nintendo's part, can asplode itself.

~~~
whamlastxmas
What's the problem with it?

~~~
lmz
They are wrong. The Switch console itself is USB-C standard compliant. The
dock has a slightly smaller plug to make it easier to dock / undock the
console. 3rd parties try to replicate the smaller plug but don't get the
tolerances right causing a miswiring.

~~~
hadrien01
I can’t charge my phone with the Nintendo Switch charger, it switches on and
off repeatedly and doesn't charge. And my other USB-C chargers don't negotiate
the power needed with the Switch so it charges very slowly if you don't use
the included charger.

~~~
lmz
I charge the Switch console just fine with a PD USB-C charger. PD is very
negotiable and the Switch only supports a few voltages so your charger must
support the same voltages.

~~~
Dylan16807
As far as I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong), every proper charger is
supposed to support the exact same list of power combinations from 0 up to
whatever its max wattage is.

The switch dock demands 39 watts, which implies 15 volts, but the switch
itself will negotiate any voltage when standalone.

------
rahuldottech
> “but we expect that as the adoption of USB Type-C products and USB Power
> Delivery continues to increase the market will guide [manufacturers] toward
> a common implementation.”

I'd really like this, but I don't know if it'll ever happen. The situation, as
it stands now, is a mess:

The Raspberry Pi finally got USB-C, but they botched the implementation. As
did the Nintendo switch. Even with phones and audio, there's like two
different kinds of dongles and you never know which will work?
[https://youtu.be/Ly-bSBHOSIo](https://youtu.be/Ly-bSBHOSIo)

Not to mention that there's a ridiculous number of standards that a USB-C
device can support, but you have no way of knowing what by looking at it
physically. Power delivery? Not on most non-high-end Windows laptops. Data? On
most, except the Raspberry Pi? QuickCharge? Sometimes. Video? Only with some
phones and laptops. Not most non-high-end devices.

You always have to look it up, it's a huge mess.

~~~
mmastrac
USB-A had the same growing pains. I recall buying a USB hub around 2000ish
that used to crash randomly. It wasn't until the mid 2000s til you could get
hubs that were reliable.

There was also a myriad of charging options around the launch of the iPad. It
was a hit or miss gamble with chargers, cables and devices. Maybe you'll get
1A? Maybe not?

USB-C is a complex standard, but the chipsets and processes are improving and
this pain will be a distant memory - just like all those USB-A pains we had.

~~~
jjoonathan
Counterexample: Bluetooth has been around for a good while and outside of
well-tested vertically integrated setups it's still a hot mess.

~~~
zifutreiua
I would argue that Bluetooth always was and always will be a shitty
technology. It's not growing pains, it's just bad. Nothing can fix that, just
throwing it away and starting over.

~~~
mprev
Which part of Bluetooth do you dislike? These days it’s more like a family of
standards.

~~~
bluedino
It's slow. Transfering videos from my iPhone to my MacBook happens very fast,
sending a video from a friends Android phone to my Thinkpad takes forever.

~~~
tialaramex
Over Bluetooth? Yeah, that would be slow. The Apple devices are almost
certainly spinning up a WiFi connection to actually move the data. I imagine
that both the Android phone and the ThinkPad can be taught how to do that, but
it doesn't surprise me that it didn't just work out of the box.

------
pier25
My experiences with USB-C/TB3 have not been great...

I have to clean the USB-C port on my Android phone every couple of months
otherwise it won't charge because the cable won't completely fit into the
port. A thicker port means now more fibers and dirt can get in. This _never_
happened to me with micro USB or lightning ports.

The Nintendo Switch has a USB-C port which means you should be able to use any
USB-C to HDMI cable or dock to charge it or connect it to a TV, right? Nope.
You can only use the official expensive dock or USB-C cables. Otherwise you
can brick your Switch. [1]

I bought a cable for TB3 to connect an SSD to my iMac and instead of getting
40Gbps I only got 480Mbps... my fault for not reading the small print, but
having the same connectors for different protocols is not a smart idea either.

So I bought a real 40Gbps TB3 cable and then discovered whenever I plug
anything on the TB3 ports of my iMac the CPU temps increase by 10ºC which
makes the fans audible pretty much all the time. I opted for using USB3 which
uses pretty cheap cables, is fast enough, and doesn't heat up my iMac.

[1] [https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/04/nintendo-warns-
agains...](https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/04/nintendo-warns-against-
using-substandard-switch-charging-cables/)

~~~
kalleboo
> _This never happened to me with micro USB or lightning ports_

This happens regularly to the lightning ports among my family&friends. "My
iPhone keeps stopping charging" "did you clean out the lint with a toothpick?"
"Oh"

> _Otherwise you can brick your Switch_

The bricking was happening due to a faulty third-party dock that was sending
9V on a 5V line. Nothing to do with the Switch itself. You can use any old
USB-C charger with the Switch, as long as it's not faulty.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/ckaiiv/an_e...](https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/ckaiiv/an_engineers_pov_on_the_3rd_party_dock_switch/)

~~~
longblack
I previously worked in an environment where iPads were distributed to staff;
the team responsible for supporting them had toothpicks on hand for this exact
reason.

An argument may exist for lint etc being harder to clean out of a USB-C port
once it had made its way in there, but haven't witnessed it myself yet.

Anecdotes can be given all day, but I would suggest it's a potential problem
for any port of similar size being placed in pockets and bags.

------
charlesdaniels
Personally, I have only ever had negative experiences with type C (touchbar
MacBook pro, Nintendo Switch). Type C was one of the main reasons I sold my
MBP and switched to Linux. It was just impossible to find peripherals / cables
that worked reliably.

Aside from being a fragile and poorly designed physical connector, the state
of protocols that can be run over it is a disaster. My grandmother definitely
will not be able to troubleshoot why her devices don't work properly together
when she uses a USB type C cable to connect Thunderbolt devices. I suspect
this will be the same for many other users.

While having a ridiculous number of different connectors isn't great, I think
it would have been reasonable to at least have different connectors for power,
data, and video (even if they were all part of the same spec, and just keyed
different to help end users figure out what to plug in where).

I would also have really liked to see a solid core connector. Apple Lightning
is a good example of what that would look like -- there is no tiny wafer
inside of the device-side port to crack, and both the port and connector are
much more durable. Not that I think we should all use lightning, but it's an
example of a reasonably well designed connector in my view.

Finally, I think the fact that so many vendors have failed to properly
implement the spec is a sign that it's a bad spec. Raspberry Pi and Nintendo
presumably have competent engineering departments. By and large, nobody had
difficulty getting microUSB right.

~~~
zifutreiua
Did you actually manage to break that tiny wafer or it's more of a theoretical
concern? I admit I had the same concern as you, but I'm not a mechanical
engineer, and I'm sure a lot of thought was put in the mechanical design of
the connector.

It seems to me that the outer metal sheet on the connector will prevent a
"wrong" angle on the wafer.

Linus Tech Tips actually tested 10000 USB-C insertions:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqtNleXhTRE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqtNleXhTRE)

Spoiler: USB MicroB failed at 8000, USB-C was still working at 10000

~~~
charlesdaniels
Not with type C. But I’ve seen friends break the very similar wafer in HDMI
ports.

All it takes is for one fragment if debris to get wedged in the wrong way, and
now that port on your expensive device is broken irreparably.

It may have that durability during normal use, but I doubt that these tests
account for being shoved in backpacks or banged around in potentially dirty
environments. Most people I know don’t use their laptops in sterile labs.

~~~
Ao7bei3s
It's not at all irreparable.

There are very affordable (relative to the cost of a new laptop) online
businesses specializing in this exact problem. But a skilled hobbyist
(possibly with some advise from Youtube) or decent phone repair shop can do it
too.

It's actually not that hard (put kapton tape around, remove old using hotair
and tweezers, clean with flux and wick, solder new with iron or hotair, a
compatible solder or paste, and lots of flux. Clean with spray/brush).
Assuming you can source a replacement part, but between Digi-Key/Mouser, eBay
and AliExpress that's rarely impossible.

------
reportgunner
> _letting you use a laptop to power your smartphone, for instance_

What do they mean ? I remember charging my phone (or even a mp3 player) from
my laptop using mini USB and later micro USB like 8 or 10 years ago.

~~~
taneq
Maybe they meant letting you use a laptop _charger_ to power your phone?

~~~
milankragujevic
that could turn out bad if any of the components is not to spec. like, idk,
putting 28 V 1.3A into a phone that takes 5V 2.3A. Boom!

~~~
taneq
I thought USB automagically took care of that?

~~~
charwalker
If implemented to spec, yes. If cheap and not, maybe not.

------
Ididntdothis
Does anybody know why there are no USB-C hubs? With USB-A there are hubs that
have four or eight USB-A outputs. But with USB-C I can’t find any hubs that
have four USB-C outputs. Some have four USB-A but none have four USB-C output.
Pretty strange and quite a loss of functionality.

~~~
nespressoAnger
Because, unlike USB-A hubs, it's not clear what should happen when you plug in
a new device. This is mostly due to the existence of alternate modes.

For example, let's say you have a USB-C hub with 4 downstream ports and two
USB devices plugged in. At least one of these is a 10Gbps USB 3.1 device. You
plug in a USB-C -> HDMI adapter. Which of the following happens (and how does
your grandmother diagnose the problem)?

1\. Nothing. 2\. The three existing devices detach from the bus and re-
enumerate as USB 2.0 at 0.480 Gbps 3\. The three existing devices continue to
run as 3.0 devices, but only at 5 Gbps 4\. The three existing devices continue
to run as 3.0 devices at 10 Gbps

Explanation:

1\. The hub does not support USB alt modes, so when an HDMI dongle is plugged
in, the dongle is ignored.

2\. The HDMI dongle is a passive alt mode device, requiring the use of all 4
high speed lanes. The other downstream devices are routed the internal USB 2.0
hub.

3\. The HDMI dongle has an active Displayport -> HDMI converter inside, and
uses only 2 of the high speed lanes, leaving the other 2 for USB 3.0 data.
Since the other peripherals use the 2x 5Gbps USB 3.1 mode and only 1 lane is
available in each direction, they revert to 5Gbps

4\. Same as #3, except that the peripherals use the 1x 10Gbps USB 3.1 mode, so
they continue to operate at 10Gbps with a single lane.

Ok, now 3 ports are occupied and you plug in a pair of USB-C headphones. What
happens now?

1\. Nothing 2\. Your HDMI dongle stops working 3\. Everything Just Works

Explanation

1\. USB alt modes don't cover the case of a USB Audio Accessory and a
Displayport accessory. Since you can't have both, your drivers ignore the new
device

2\. Same as #1, but your drivers prioritize the new device

3\. Maybe your hub secretly has an audio codec inside, and is able to sync and
source analog audio to any downstream port.

Bonus points: Ok, now what happens when you chain USB-C hubs? What happens
when you try to plug in multiple HDMI adapters? Multiple audio accessories?
When things don't work, is the problem the hub, the peripheral, or the
drivers?

~~~
cesarb
From what I've read of the official specification, the correct answers are:

1\. Plug the HDMI adapter: almost nothing. The HDMI adapter enumerates as an
USB 2.0 "billboard device". The operating system can read the descriptor from
this device and present a pop-up explaining "you have to plug HDMI adapters
directly". This is because, as far as I know, USB hubs can't pass through
alternate modes (except for the new USB4 alternate mode, but that is less of
"pass through" and more "the hub is a USB4 device itself").

2\. Plug the USB-C headphones: it depends on whether they are analog
headphones using the "audio accessory" mode, or digital headphones presenting
as an USB audio device. If they are digital headphones, it's the "everything
just works" case; if they are analog headphones, it's the "nothing" case
(unless there's something in the specification I missed where a hub can detect
the "audio accessory" and warn the host, in which case you might get the pop-
up explaining "analog headphones are not supported by this computer, even if
you had plugged them directly").

Things change a bit with USB4. In the particular case where the HDMI dongle is
an active DP to HDMI converter (which is probably the most common case, since
from what I've seen computer support for the DP alternate mode is more common
than the HDMI alternate mode, so most dongles will cater to that case), and
the hub is an USB4 hub, it'll work as if it had been connected directly, since
USB4 can tunnel Displayport (together with PCI Express and USB 3).

~~~
nespressoAnger
Since I can't edit my sibling post:

I wanted to address your point about the "correct" answer, because it's
actually not so simple:

The billboard spec allows for a device to be both a DisplayPort 4-lane and a
USB 2.0 device (This isn't theoretical--I have such a device in front of me.
It's a passive DisplayPort + 2 port USB2.0 + microSD "hub").

The HDMI adapter I hypothesized in my second scenario is a passive HDMI
adapter. You're correct that passive HDMI + USB2.0 is not possible, but
substitute a passive DisplayPort for passive HDMI here and the idea is the
same.

In the third scenario I am hypothesizing an active 2-lane DisplayPort to HDMI
adapter (These are also not theoretical--this is how the Apple "HDMI Multiport
Adapter" works).

The hub I hypothesized for scenarios 2 through 4 (which does _not_ exist) is
one that would be smart enough to do the following:

1\. Recognize the video dongle's billboard

2\. Send the host a "fake" billboard for "DisplayPort 2 lane + USB 3.0" or
"DisplayPort 4 lane + USB 2.0" (as appropriate)

3\. Re-configure the downstream USB-C as USB 3.0 or 2.0-only ports (again as
appropriate)

4\. Route DP to the dongle (perhaps via an internal DP -> HDMI converter, if
the hub has one), Route USB 2.0 or 3.0 to the internal hub, and route the hub
to the downstream USB-C ports.

I don't recall if rewriting the billboard is allowed per the USB spec (I think
it isn't). But you can see how it would be possible for a hub to support alt-
mode routing, even if the spec doesn't formally define it.

~~~
cesarb
You seem to be confusing the billboard device with the alternate mode
negotiation. The billboard device is a normal USB device which shows up once
the alternate mode negotiation times out. The alternate mode negotiation
happens on the configuration pins over the USB-PD protocol.

The alternate mode discovery is initiated by the host, so the only way the hub
could change which alternate modes it supports would be to disconnect from the
host (unplugging all the devices on it, which would be particularly bad if
some of them were storage devices).

(Also, I believe HDMI alternate mode with USB 2.0 _is_ possible. The only
alternate mode I know of which changes the meaning of the USB 2.0 pins is
VirtualLink, which uses them for USB 3.x instead.)

------
Analemma_
I'm glad things are working great for the author, but for me USB-C is still a
dumpster fire. When locked and plugged into its USB-C docking station, my
MacBook Pro kernel panics multiple times per day. Since my current workplace
has very strict rules about never leaving unattended computers unlocked, every
trip to the bathroom is a 1-in-4 chance I'll have to watch my Mac reboot when
I get back, unless I want to unplug it and lose all my window positions.

It's mind-boggling how the entire industry fucked this up so badly.

~~~
cerberusss
There's something wrong with either your docking station or your laptop. Since
december 2016, I've been docking a MacBook Pro and I've never had a kernel
panic.

~~~
Analemma_
Unfortunately no: I've replaced both the laptop and the docking station, and
the problem still occurs with a brand-new one of each. Something about macOS
doesn't like this model of docking station.

~~~
cerberusss
I wonder what that dock does. Would be hugely interesting to see what it sends
over the line. But now that I think of it, macOS shouldn't crash. Can you say
which dock it is?

~~~
Analemma_
It appears to be this one: [https://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/hp-thunderbolt-
dock-120w-g2](https://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/hp-thunderbolt-dock-120w-g2), or
another model with the same design.

------
mlrtime
I remember getting the Samsung S8 when it first came out. I left my charger at
home and was at a conference all day. I called every computer store around and
nobody had a cable.

I would say USB-C has come into its own when every corner store or uber car
has a usb-c charging cable standard.

~~~
Rebelgecko
Anyone with a new-ish Apple laptop would've been able to help. I think the
MBPs started using USB-C for charging in 2016.

~~~
dajohnson89
anyone with a new iphone would not be able to help. when will Apple get
serious about using usb-c universally?

~~~
RandallBrown
They'd at least be able to help with a wall wart...

Apple is in a tricky place because there are so many accessories in the world
that work with Lightning. Customers would be _pissed_ if they had to use
dongles for all of that stuff they already own.

The 30 Pin connector existed for 9 years before Lightning came out in 2012, so
we still probably have a few years before they consider abandoning it.

I imagine by then, USB-C will actually be the universal solution that everyone
wants.

Part of me is actually expecting Apple to abandon cables altogether and just
provide wireless charging/syncing.

~~~
akersten
> Customers would be pissed if they had to use dongles for all of that stuff
> they already own.

Eh, they were _brave_ enough to do it for the 3.5mm jack, I don't see why they
couldn't do it here. So I think the real reason is they want to continue to
sell $40 lightening cables, or whatever they cost now.

~~~
macintux
Or, as the article points out...

> In Apple’s case, the hesitation at least makes some sense. As long as USB-C
> compatibility is more tangled than a late-stage game of Twister, it will
> remain anathema to Cupertino’s mantra of “it just works.” USB-C can still
> feel more like "it works, just not always how you were expecting." Apple
> already achieved USB-C’s space-saving and reversibility benefits seven years
> ago with the introduction of its Lightning cable. And in those seven years,
> an expansive ecosystem of Lightning peripherals has emerged, all of which
> would head straight for the scrap heap with a jump to USB-C.

~~~
Dylan16807
If they had jumped straight to USB-C on their phones it never would have been
tangled. Exact data speeds don't matter for a phone, they could have avoided
any headphone adapter confusion, and the issue of charging-only cables exists
no matter what, on lightning too.

And adding an adapter onto lightning plugs is less invasive than the issues
with removing the headphone jack.

Edit: So would anyone like to explain how any of that is such a bad
contribution it deserves a downvote? I'm always surprised when a comment gets
silently downvoted, it's never something where I expected any downvotes...

~~~
OkGoDoIt
Lightning came out several years before USB-C. So I don’t think going straight
to USB-C was really an option.

(not suggesting that’s why you were downvoted, just clarifying the timeline of
the ports)

~~~
oarsinsync
Two years, to be precise.

Lightning devices were shipping end of 2012.

USB-C design was finalised end of 2014.

~~~
Dylan16807
And it was announced in 2013, with Apple part of the group helping design it.
I'm sure they could have shipped it in 2014 if they had really wanted to.
Other devices were shipping only a couple months later.

Maybe the development started too late for Apple to involve it in their plans?
But that would have been a really rapid pace. Overall it looks a lot like this
was Apple fussiness.

------
ailideex
USB-C is a terribly designed connector. Both devices I have that use it
disconnect when you just slightly graze the cable connected to USB-C. That
includes a Nokia 7 plus phone and a HP elitebook. And this started after less
than a year of use for both devices. I never had this problem with previous
connectors and I wish I never spent any money on devices with such flimsy
connectors.

~~~
oxplot
I had a similar issue with my Pixel Phone's USB-C socket. The Apple's USB-C
cable would fall out on its own after a while! Turns out, there was so much
lint from clothing trapped at the end of the socket that the cable couldn't
latch properly. Took a toothpick and got the dirt out. The cable now clicks in
quite pleasurably and stays there firmly. Thought I'd mention in case others
are wondering.

------
ProfessorLayton
A bit tangential, I have been pretty content with Apple's relative stability
on their proprietary connectors on their mobile devices.

Just look at the mess of variants for USB:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware)

While I've only had to deal with 2.5-3* transitions for my Apple devices so
far.

* Apple of course did cause their own mess transitioning away from Firewire while keeping the 30-pin connector:

\- 30-pin Firewire data + charge

\- 30-pin Firewire charging only

\- 30-pin USB, no firewire charging (Remember all those Bose dock/car 30-pin
adapters).

\- Lightning port transition.

In this case, Apple's proprietary ports ended up feeling a lot more universal.

~~~
mrpippy
In addition, adapters were available for all those steps: 12V to 5V charging,
and the 30 pin to Lightning adapter. And on the software side, even the
ancient iAP accessories are still working. I’ve seen 2007 car kits hooked up
to an iPhone 6 through those 2 adapters and behaving just as you’d expect.

------
notacoward
If USB-C has finally come into its own, why is it still impossible to find a
dual USB-C power adapter or battery? Still have to use hacky USB-C to USB-A
cables connected to a low-amp USB-A port for all but one device. USB-C will
have come into its own when I can travel without any extra cables or adapters
to work with the older standard.

~~~
callmeal
Anker[0] has a dual usb-c power adapter. Comes in handy while traveling.

[0] : [https://www.anker.com/products/variant/powerport-atom-
pd-2/A...](https://www.anker.com/products/variant/powerport-atom-
pd-2/A2029121)

~~~
notacoward
Cool. I have the single-port Atom and love it. Nice to see these are finally
appearing on the market.

------
shantly
My wife, last week, a couple days after she gets a new Macbook Air to replace
her old one that stopped working:

"Wait... there are no USB ports on this thing? How the fuck am I supposed to
plug _anything_ in?! My flash drives, my camera, my microphone... anything?
Seriously?"

Welcome to dongle life :-(

2019, still don't have a single thing in our house to plug into a USB-C port,
except adapters. Probably reach the end of 2020 in a similar state. Just
bought a new 4TB portable HD that's USB-A (3.0), because USB-C wouldn't be
able to plug into anything but a new Macbook, without an adapter.

~~~
asciident
I don't know about you, but my flash drives, camera, and microphone are all
usb-c. It sounds like you have either not upgraded your devices in a while, or
bought devices with out-of-date connectors. It's pretty easy to avoid out-of-
date non- usb-c accessories these days.

~~~
JCharante
I don't think I've ever seen a USB C flashdrive in my life

------
gwillz
I've always felt that manufacturers got the USB-C dongle very wrong.

Instead of converting USB-C to DP/USB-A/HDMI, the dongle should be converting
DP/USB-A/HDMI to USB-C.

It's about upgrading the older perpherials instead of downgrading the new
devices.

For example, the dongle is instead fixed to my DVI port on my monitor. Now my
monitor has a USB-C socket, instead of my laptop or phone having a DVI socket.

It reduces bulk and now I truly only have to use USB-C cables everywhere. If
someone knows where to find dongles like this I'd be very excited.

~~~
cesarb
For USB-A, that's explicitly not allowed. From the standard:

    
    
        USB Type-C receptacle to USB legacy adapters are explicitly not defined or allowed. Such
        adapters would allow many invalid and potentially unsafe cable connections to be
        constructed by users.
    

For DP and HDMI, I haven't seen the standard so I don't know if they are
allowed, but they probably aren't, because they would be confusing for users.
Such an adapter would be a USB-C "sink", and when you connect two USB-C
"sinks" together, nothing happens (it would be like connecting together two
devices which only have the classic USB-B port). So if a user tried to use a
pair of these dongles together with a USB-C cable to replace a "native" DP or
HDMI cable, it wouldn't work.

------
intsunny
I've heard that Apple engineers helped with the USB-C spec based on their
experiences with Lightning.

Why did they opt for a connector with a tongue that could break on the device?

The Lightning connector seems to be superior because it does not have a piece
that could not only break, but is a real PITA to fix.

~~~
charwalker
What's your failure rate? I haven't had a USB C cable break like that, not
even the cheap ones.

------
whywhywhywhy
Tried to charge my Macbook Pro with a colleagues charger recently. After an
hour I unplugged it only to find it hadn't actually been charging.

Turns out the Macbook chargers although looking almost identical to the
Macbook Pro chargers can only provide enough power to run the Macbook Pro but
not enough power to run and charge it.

Not sure how non-technical people are ever supposed to realize or understand
any of this.

~~~
electrum
This isn't specific to USB-C. The older MagSafe adapters (and likely the ones
before them) came in different wattage for different computers. The smaller
wattage adapters are physically smaller and lighter -- often important for
someone who intentionally purchased a lightweight computer.

------
ses1984
"a reputable vendor like Amazon"

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

------
rektide
Huge supporter of USB-C, but the premise is a joke. Dual chargers are only
just starting to trickle out! Few laptops have >2 ports. How many people even
in the tech realm have any idea what USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 means? (dual 10Gbit
connection)

The cost of implementation is really high & relies on way too many chips to
achieve anything. Few SoC have USB-C built in.

It's gonna take a decade before this becomes at all regular. It'll be in
products, but it's still exotic to work with, & only doable along very narrow
paths. That's the pace we're running at.

------
cmurf
I've got an HP Spectre laptop, and Moto X4. Both have USB-C. Both came with
their own power supplies. I'm scared to try the HP brick cable to see if it'll
charge, or blow up my phone. I doubt the Moto charger would even register on
the laptop but maybe it'd trickle charge it? I have no idea or confidence in
how mixing these things would work.

But otherwise I prefer USB-C to all previous alternatives so far.

------
new_realist
For all the bitching and moaning about USB-C in Apple MacBooks, the move looks
prescient in retrospect.

~~~
batiudrami
I don't think anyone was arguing that it wasn't. USB-C is and was obviously
the future and a far superior standard. But not having even one USB-A port is
still ocasionally a pain today, and definitely would have been four years ago.

------
herogreen
mini USB: octobrer 2000 to january 2007 (6 years, 3 months)

micro USB: january 2007 to august 2014 (7 years, 7 months)

USB-C: august 2014 - ? (5+ years)

I hope we keep increasing the lifespan of the "suggested" mobile-device USB
form factor, to increase convenience and (slightly) reduce environmental
impact.

~~~
lstamour
It's very likely we'll hit a point where the connector (Type-C) doesn't
change, but the cable standards do. Just like how USB Type-A has been very
stable, or HDMI, DisplayPort and mini-DP. That said, I don't see USB Micro-B
disappearing anytime soon. And everything USB power delivery is an improvement
over how we used to do power via randomly-sized DC connectors. I remember
spending quite awhile looking for alternative power adapters for my PSP-1000
which did have its own micro USB port. Don't get me started on proprietary
cellphone power adapters... or the various 30-pin connectors ...
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dock_connector](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dock_connector)

~~~
InitialLastName
At least Type-C is permanently reversible, where MicroUSB is just
destructively reversible.

------
Animats
USB-C isn't just USB. It's USB plus a whole bunch of other optional features,
from higher power to DisplayPort video to a JTAG back door. It's a collection
of features jammed into a really tiny connector. Of course it's not very
compatible.

------
greggman2
Does anyone make a multiple USB-C charger? My Pixel, my MiFi, and MBA are all
USB-C. I can get USB-C to Lightning Cables for my iPhone and Airpods but I
can't find a power block that has more than a single USB-C socket. All of
Anker's are 4 USB-A and 1 USB-C

[https://www.anker.com/ca/products/108/216/desktop-
chargers](https://www.anker.com/ca/products/108/216/desktop-chargers)

Checking on Amazon I see at most 2 USB-C (with nothing else so not useful)

~~~
javagram
[https://www.anker.com/products/variant/powerport-atom-
pd-2/A...](https://www.anker.com/products/variant/powerport-atom-
pd-2/A2029121)

This one has 2 USB-C

[https://www.anker.com/products/variant/powerport-atom-
pd-4/A...](https://www.anker.com/products/variant/powerport-atom-
pd-4/A2041122)

This has 2 USB-C and 2 USB-A. Apparently it’s out of stock on amazon right now
though...

~~~
greggman2
I listed 3 devices so 2 is not a solution. And I've had 4 before and expect
them to go up so would prefer to get a 5 port USB-C power supply now if such a
thing existed.

------
dwb
The cables/protocols situation is pretty silly, but even despite that I got on
the USB-C train as soon as I could, dongles and new cables and all. The
connector is that much better, and yes, if you can arrange a one-cable-to-
rule-them-all laptop docking situation it's glorious. I'll take the upheaval
for that.

------
dariusj18
USB-C will actually be here when Logitech releases a mouse/keyboard dongle for
it.

------
mnd999
The ports are too fragile and the different cable standards are
incomprehensible. I was quite pleased when I heard about USB C but it started
badly with the dodgy cables and had just got worse.

I’m hoping Apple stick with lightning.

------
oxplot
USB-C can supply up to 100 watts of power at 20v and up to 5A current. At the
moment, you can easily get your hands on 87 watt Apple charger which is a high
quality and compact [1]. That's a huge amount of power. To put this into
perspective, here are a few unsuspecting items that can be easily powered by
Apple's charger (stuff around my apartment):

* A fairly capable soldering iron [2]

* Studio grade lighting [3]

* Prusa i3 3D printer [4]

* Emblaser Core Laser Cutter

Each of these devices come with their own power supply unit, most of which are
bricks at least twice the size of the Apple's charger, while most likely of
lower output signal quality (e.g. higher ripple). It'd be great if all that
waste could be replaces with a USB-C port!

That's why I'm currently working on a PCB kit which can be programmed to
require a certain voltage/current from an upstream USB-C power supply [7]. It
can then be used as adapter for (or embedded inside) devices that don't have
USB-C power input. I'm hoping to sell the kit in the future. I'll be getting
rid of my power bricks one by one while making them more portable with things
like high power car chargers [6].

I'm also working on an upstream USB-C power supply (as a kit) [8] that can
take any input from 10-35v and provide up to 100 watt output (which is
currently rare).

[1]:
[http://k.sina.com.cn/article_1677177940_63f7b454001003fpl.ht...](http://k.sina.com.cn/article_1677177940_63f7b454001003fpl.html)

[2]: [https://www.weller-tools.com/we1010na/](https://www.weller-
tools.com/we1010na/)

[3]: [https://www.amazon.com.au/Godox-SL-60W-Temperature-
Continous...](https://www.amazon.com.au/Godox-SL-60W-Temperature-Continous-
Lighting/dp/B01EA25GDY)

[4]: [https://shop.prusa3d.com/en/3d-printers/180-original-
prusa-i...](https://shop.prusa3d.com/en/3d-printers/180-original-
prusa-i3-mk3-kit.html)

[5]:
[https://darklylabs.com/emblaser_core/](https://darklylabs.com/emblaser_core/)

[6]: [https://satechi.net/products/72w-type-c-pd-car-charger-
adapt...](https://satechi.net/products/72w-type-c-pd-car-charger-
adapter?nosto=frontpage-nosto-1)

[7]: [https://imgur.com/a/GIia7Fo](https://imgur.com/a/GIia7Fo)

[8]: [https://imgur.com/a/ejbPBIT](https://imgur.com/a/ejbPBIT)

~~~
llampx
Apple's charger is nice but it also costs a pretty penny. Are you sure you
couldn't get a nicer custom-built power supply if you wanted to spend that
much money?

~~~
oxplot
There definitely could be one out there, but given the size of the Apple
charger, power output performance, build quality and ubiquity, I think it'll
be hard to find an alternative that costs less. A lot of expensive components
goes into making this charger. I can tell you from my experience of trying to
build a similar supply, that's not even an AC-DC circuit, that the components
alone cost $30 USD. Even at Apple's production scale, it'll most likely still
cost ~$20. That's 25% of the retail price. I'm constantly amazed on how they
manage to make them so cheap!

But all the attributes I mentioned could be irrelevant to many. If you carry a
30 liter bag around, double the size of charger won't make a difference. If
you're powering lights, output ripple doesn't matter much and so on.

------
gwillz
I've always felt like

------
taneq
Time to change the connector again, I guess.

