
Solving Depression with Analytical Thinking - burritofanatic
https://rockentry.com/blogs/the-crux/avoiding-problem-paralysis
======
drinfinity
Dude, you had some unfortunate life events piled on top of each other causing
turmoil. I sincerely don't wish that to happen to anyone and I congratulate
you on feeling better, but..

I want to point out that your episode is not to be compared with actual
sustained major depression, which will _eat you alive_. So utterly and
completely will your soul be crushed that taking your own life will feel
redundant, unnecessary. You have literally no idea of how deep this rabbit
hole goes, thank god, but your advice trivialises the depth of depression and
I have to wonder how this got so high on HN.. This is a blog with one post,
one.

~~~
slothtrop
I think his advice is garbage, but it doesn't trivialize depression at all.
Depression is an umbrella term, he's speaking honestly about his own
experience. It's still "depression".

There's always this sort of reaction anytime someone shares solutions, for
severe depression or otherwise, casting it as patronizing and demanding more
caveats and tip-toeing. You'd think they'd rather see wallowing in self-pity.
In no instance are these meant to reflect personal failures.

~~~
drinfinity
> I think his advice is garbage, but it doesn't trivialize depression at all.
> Depression is an umbrella term, he's speaking honestly about his own
> experience. It's still "depression".

Actually, I overreacted and I agree with you here. "Depression" is actually
quite well defined by the DSM, but the common use of the word covers a lot of
ground indeed. So, I read "clinical depression", but I should have read what
was actually in the article: just "depression", being "depressed".

Excuse me, for me it's a delicate subject.

------
beagle3
The recurring theme in almost all accounts of depression that I've read is the
lack of will and/or care to get out of the state (and/or care for much of
anything).

This guy had a real problem - several of them, actually, and I admire him for
pulling himself by the bootstraps going up; and for avoiding paralysis which
is indeed an issue in situations like this. But being depressed for specific
reasons (marriage failure, financial problems), solvable or not, is very
different from clinical depression - which may look similar on the outside,
but doesn't have a good reason.

I don't want to belittle anyone or anything, but ... I've read countless
descriptions of depression, and this one is unlike the others. The author may
have suffered from real depression, but I don't believe his experience is
applicable to other cases.

To each his own, but the reason I'm pointing this out is to (hopefully) stop
HNrs who are unaware of this, who may show this to their clinically depressed
friends or family and say "see, you just need some analytical thinking". It
may work - some people manage to overcome schizophrenia with analytical
thinking - but they are AFAIK a tiny minority.

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blastbeat
I know some people, who are in complete paralysis thanks to (overly) analytic
thinking. On the other hand, from all the people I know having a major
depression, nobody was able to advance simply by analyzing, deciding, acting,
and without help. That said, it might worked for the author, but I doubt that
it would work that smoothly for the majority of people with problem paralysis,
let alone depression.

------
mykowebhn
I wonder if it's not so much analytical thinking as opposed to just going out
and doing something. Several forms of depression are exacerbated by ruminative
thinking [1]. I'm not sure many depressed people would be able to successfully
navigate the steps involved for analytical thinking without falling back into
rumination.

Rather than attempting analytical thinking first, I think it'd be much easier
to initiate a simple activity, walk around the block, see a happy movie, visit
a bookstore. Once one gets out of this cycle of ruminative thinking can one
have the wherewithal to begin analytical thinking.

[1] [https://psychcentral.com/blog/why-ruminating-is-unhealthy-
an...](https://psychcentral.com/blog/why-ruminating-is-unhealthy-and-how-to-
stop/)

------
howard941
Lest anyone take the advice in the OP to heart, there is no shame in obtaining
a bankruptcy discharge - it's just another tool in your financial toolbox.
Moreover, it's needlessly stressful and harmful to struggle under the burden
of managing someone else's debt while also going through a divorce and
suffering a serious illness. I marvel at the dude's strength and if he were
participating in the comment thread I'd ask if in retrospect he'd change
anything.

~~~
hirundo
There is shame in breaking a promise. Bankruptcy breaks a promise. Being a
tool in your toolbox, even being necessary some times, doesn't neutralize a
shamefully act, to the extent that your choices contributed to it.

~~~
throwaway123x2
The bank charged you interest based on what they thought the risk was of you
breaking that promise. They knew the risk when they put out that loan.

~~~
hirundo
True, but I feel I would still feel shame in failing to keep my word,
regardless of the intention of the other party, as long as they keep theirs.

~~~
CiPHPerCoder
> True, but I feel I would still feel shame

Please keep your shame to yourself. Your other comments in this thread sound
like you're trying to invoke your shame upon others for declaring bankruptcy.

If your intention was consistently "I would still feel shame" rather than "You
should feel shame", that's fine, but please make that clearer.

~~~
hirundo
I would still feel shame, to the extent that the bankruptcy was due to my
choices. I would judge others on the same basis.

~~~
beagle3
May I ask what your cultural background is?

"Choice" is a funny concept. There are cultures that made people choose
between Seppuku and shame, with Seppuku being the honorable "choice". You seem
to be accepting and even advocating a financial version of that "choice".

It's not quite as common these days, and for the best IMO.

~~~
hirundo
If I go bankrupt because I get hit by a bus on the sidewalk, I wouldn't feel
ashamed of that. If I go bankrupt because I got drunk and ran into a bus, I'd
feel ashamed of that. If I go bankrupt because it's more convenient than
paying my debts, I'd feel ashamed of that.

A family member did that. I felt ashamed of him and less of him. I'm less
likely to make him a loan. He lost credit with me. I think that's healthy.

------
sammycdubs
One of the most insidious aspects of depression is thinking that you can solve
it easily on your own. Holding the idea of "if I just do x, y, and z then I'll
be ok" in front of you, then consistently failing cements the feeling that
it's "your fault".

------
aszantu
My depression only lifted after I switched to keto, I've been depressed for 30
years. Low energy and everything was a drag until the switch...
People(psychiatrists and psychologists) don't want to hear it, but food is
connected to how we feel.

~~~
slothtrop
I think this is understated. I went a different direction, but all the same, I
think self-experimentation / personal science is worthwhile to that end. Diet
and exercise should be the first line of defense.

------
stiff
The article is titled "Avoiding Problem Paralysis". The HN submission title is
rather unfortunate, I think.

------
antisthenes
> My first real experience with depression occurred when I was 25. I had
> recently separated from my ex-wife, and our divorce was pending.

> My ex-wife had a tumultuous upbringing — her mother walked out on the family
> when she was eight, and her father died when she was 19, leaving her
> effectively the head of her household which included two younger brothers.
> She was at a time of great need, and we decided to get married because we
> were deeply in love, and I wanted to contribute to her stability.

Incredible amount of red flags here for a working marriage. I'm sorry this
happened to OP, but I'm really surprised his parents didn't try to stop this
way before it happened.

------
rmellow
This corroborates how I got out of my own depression. No episode in particular
caused it, just growing up around shitty people that mined my self-confidence
and social skills.

How did I get out of it? Just like the author, a switch flipped. I could keep
the status quo and be miserable, or I could do something about It. Read that
again: We require a definition of "It".

I did therapy for years, which helped me learn how to organize my feelings and
know myself better. What happened is that eventually I was able to identify
all of what was making me sick - before that, I couldn't put it into words, I
was simply miserable.

In my particular case it stemmed from spending my early childhood in a first
world country and moving back to our third world country when I was 7. Dealing
with the aggressiveness and irrationality of my native culture is something
that left me unable to successfully integrate in that society. This in turn of
course means I had few friends, trouble finding a girlfriend and difficulty
entertaining myself. I had to find a way out. Moving out of course would be
difficult. Third world salaries, family didn't support my decision to leave
the country, no good way to insert myself in a first world society with
security.

Fast forward 10 years: I managed to immigrate back into the first world
through an education visa and convert it into a work visa. Have stable work
with good pay, like-minded friendships, amazing girlfriend.

I still have "scars" from back then: some social awkwardness is still there,
and sometimes I have blue days. But I know how to manage myself and work to
identify and attend to what's bothering me.

The takeaway for me (not a doctor) is that some forms of depression manifest
themselves in a healthy nervous system that's exposed to an adverse
environment. We have some control over the environments we're in and that's
where we should act.

Standard disclaimer - still look for a doctor. Therapy was enough for me, but
it may be the case you needs drugs. Seek help. While you don't have to do this
alone, you _can_ take ownership and try to solve your problems, even though it
might take years. It's worth fighting for.

------
luckylion
I don't think anybody is "solving depression" by tackling problems some way or
another.

Rather: you're getting out of your depression and that allows you to tackle
problems.

~~~
DanBC
Depression is an umbrella term that covers a wide range of experience, and
includes different types of illness.

That makes a clumsy title -- "I solved the particular sub-type of depression I
was experiencing with analytical thinking". We don't need that cumbersome
language if we just remember that the word depression covers different stuff.

~~~
luckylion
Sure, but that's not what I was trying to say. "The only times I left the room
was to eat and use the bathroom" isn't "I was feeling kinda down because I
suddenly was $60k in debt and I didn't know how to go about paying that off",
and I don't believe that most people can climb out of a hole that deep by
basically "just sorting your bills by importance".

I believe that, yes, you can greatly improve your situation by reducing
external stressors. But you'll have to get to a point that allows you to do
that first, and when you're basically either sleeping or staring at the wall
all day, you are not in that state.

To me, "chicken or egg" is rather clear: the depression must give way enough
so you can get things done that will improve it further. Suggesting otherwise
sounds dangerously close to "hey, if you just wanted to, you could just get
rid of depression" which puts suffering from depression close to "it's a
choice" territory.

