
Ask HN: Why would any senior engineer join an early stage startup? - amirathi
A lot of friends, after a couple of early stage startup stints, decide to either join an established company or start on their own. Collectively we&#x27;ve concluded that it&#x27;s almost never worth it to join somebody else&#x27;s startup if you&#x27;re a skilled (&quot;senior&quot;) engineer with some sense of product and marketing.<p>Briefly, here are the reasons,<p>- Lack of control over product direction (if your hunch is different than founder, you got to disagree and commit)<p>- Taking a pay cut for small amount of equity with low odds of success<p>- Amount of time and energy you put in is almost equal if you were to start your own<p>So it makes sense to either start on your own (if you can afford the risk) or join a good team in an established company where you can save up some cash and recharge yourself with good work-life balance for a few years.<p>I would love to hear counter arguments.<p>P.S. - I acknowledge the benefits of joining early team for fresh graduates and such, my argument is mainly for folks who are further along.
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madamelic
Because it is fun and I don't feel like filing Form 3794-G to have a plant on
my desk or something.

I worked in the US Gov't as my first job and the amount of wasted time due to
bureaucracy and red tape was overwhelming. I will admit comparing the
government to big business isn't fair, but I can't imagine it is a far step.

Also I prefer working on scrappier teams where the work is either the entire
project or a large chunk, rather than being responsible for one screen or
something.

I have never worked in a large business but it always makes me shake my head
when I hear a place like Pinterest or something having 2,000 engineers. Like
how? What can 2,000 engineers do that 200 can't?

You don't need 200 dev-ops. You don't need 200 front-end engineers. It just
baffles me why these places with one product need so many engineers. I am sure
it is business people thinking nine women can make a baby in one month.

\---

I will admit that the whole equity thing tripped me up at first. Now I just
want a large salary, keep expenses low and hope I can get a few years before
"It's been a fun ride".

Also, for any junior startup people: No one is your friend. Absolutely be
friendly and sociable but remember that it is a business at the end of the
day.

Regardless of how many times the CxO says "We're a family!", you aren't. That
same CxO will be forced to cut X% when times get rough. They may not like it
but it is a business, not a family.

Dwell on the worst cases, keep your resume sharp and trust your gut rather
than your heart. You may love life, but tides shift fast in startups (both
good and bad).

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world32
This is a very honest and non-naive answer about the pros and cons of working
startups. The "We're a family!" bit made me laugh too - the startup cliches
are real.

I would add - don't assume that because its a startup that means you have to
be working 60 hour weeks. I have worked in and known plenty of other people
who have worked in startups that were 9-5 with hardly any over time. There are
plenty of startups that succeed with the majority of the employees working
normal office hours, you just don't hear about them because they don't brag in
interviews about how hard they are "hustling" and how they do yoga at 5am in
the morning etc.

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throwaway413
There is a sweet spot regarding the timeline of early stage startups and when
to join. If they are too small, yes, a lot of the cons you mention are valid,
except for maybe the first one - I'd say earlier stage startups who are at the
point of bringing on engineers are actually looking for more input and outside
validation than larger sized businesses.

For me, joining a 20-50 person startup is the ideal sweet spot. Compensation
is often comparable to larger companies, of course it's about finding the
startups who actually respect and fairly compensate their employees (just like
working w/ clients). I've been in a situation before where I was interviewing
with two companies at the same time, similar positions with similar stage
startups (very very early, less than 3 people) - we got to numbers and one of
them offered me $50k while the other offered $180k. The funny part is that the
one that paid more, I am willing to bet, ended up being significantly less
work than the other one. Point is, it's not black and white. It's about
finding the opportunity that is right for you.

Also I think a big benefit is influence in company culture. At every smaller
startup I've been at, there has been a direct communication channel with the
CxO regarding anything one would like to discuss, often including new perks or
events that management was considering hosting. The feedback loop is smaller
and more direct.

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gshdg
\- autonomy / lack of bureaucracy

\- chance to work mostly on green-field projects

\- influence over tech direction and architecture

\- visibility into other departments; influence; not being siloed

\- opportunity for leadership roles of team grows

Plus culture tends to be different between startups and larger or more
established companies. Some people just prefer the startup-type culture.

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aaronbrager
Some startups have good work/life balance

Startups more likely to allow remote

Great experience if you want to start your own startup later (eg understand
funding rounds, growth, people problems, etc without risking your own $)

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2rsf
Luck has a lot to do with it, but in my case I actually had control over the
part of the product I owned, the pay was decent and even if you do work hard
you are not risking any of your assets.

I am not sure why do you assume lack of control, obviously a jerk founder can
make your life miserable but usually young startups bring senior engineer
exactly for the opposite reason- to help the company build a better product
using someone's experience

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kleer001
Picking a place to work and then enjoying it is a very personal decision. The
weighting on these attributes is not the same for everyone. What works for
some may not work for you. As cliche and trite as it sounds, it's true.

Designate each side of the coin for one of your two choices. flip the coin and
cover it with your hand. Now, instead of looking at the coin, think about
which result you hoped would be revealed.

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tempoewre
I wouldn't unless I have no choice. There are so many startups with bad
management that itself makes it not worth it. I would only do it if it is my
own startup.

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starbelly
Some senior engineers enjoy a challenge or perhaps believe in what the startup
is doing.

