

Character & Fitness Fail for Law Graduate With ‘No Plan’ To Pay Off His Debts - BRadmin
http://abovethelaw.com/2011/01/character-fitness-fail-for-graduate-with-no-plan-to-pay-off-his-debts/

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reader5000
For people who don't understand, they are denying him admission based on his
decision to stay on at the public defender instead of quiting and finding
likely nonexistent higher paying work to service his exorbitant albeit average
student loan debt. This is completely unacceptable micromanaging by the Ohio
Supreme Court here and if I were the guy I would keep fighting this. Character
and fitness deals merely with a person's honesty and likelihood of not abusing
the legal system; not his personal decisions regarding his personal finances
that are in no way unusual for a law school graduate. Apparently the members
of the OSC graduated 40 years ago when law school tuition was $400/yr. This
case is ridiculous; there must be thousands of people in his exact position
who passed readily.

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ig1
From the article it seems that he's made no payment on his loan at all, even
though he had a job and no substantial outgoings, but rather defaulted. He
tried to declare bankruptcy to clear his loan rather than trying to pay it
off.

That is an attempt to abuse the legal system.

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tptacek
I don't understand your comment. Student loans can't be discharged in
bankruptcy.

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lmkg
They cannot. He was trying to anyways. Quoting the article which is quoting
the court:

    
    
      The applicant testified that during the pendency of the   
      bankruptcy proceeding, the payments on his student loan 
      obligation would be greatly reduced. ... the panel 
      observed that the only debt that could be discharged in a 
      bankruptcy proceeding would be the applicant’s $16,500 in 
      consumer debt, as the applicant’s $170,000 in student 
      loans are nondischargeable in bankruptcy.

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shawnee_
The headline of the article is misleading. A guy who has a job as in public
defender's office cannot promptly pay off his $400K in student loans due to
the fact that his wages in the public defender's office are ~ $12/hr and he
has a daughter. The Ohio Bar is attacking his "Character & Fitness" for not
pursuing the kind of legal profession that would enable him to earn the kind
of money that people who work for private law firms typically make, and
ignores the intangible value he's "paying back" to society by working for a
public defender.

What is the value of defending years of freedom for those people who wouldn't
otherwise get legal representation, who might and spend 30 years in jail as an
innocent person?

<http://www.startribune.com/nation/112809234.html>

<http://www.innocenceproject.org/know/>

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reader5000
Its probably misleading cause you misread it. His loans are 170k, reasonable
for law school graduate, and C&F has nothing to do with present or future
career decisions.

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bartonfink
Just to be clear, this isn't about the guy who offered to leave law school in
his 5th semester in exchange for all his tuition back. This is an entirely
different situation with an entirely different flavor of fail.

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MaxGabriel
So, I guess the core conclusion of this article should be this:

What does not paying off student loans have to do with your ability to be a
lawyer?

~~~
thebooktocome
Someone with a large amount of debt is more likely, in the bar association's
eyes, to seek illegal or questionably legal means of repaying it.

In this case, there's also the fact that the lawyer in question tried to file
bankruptcy to lower his student loan payments, and to discharge some of his
credit card debt. He also decided to take on a low-paying job as a public
defender -- admirable, perhaps, but in his financial situation, irrational.

~~~
rprasad
Not quite correct -- the linked blog does not accurately recount the facts of
the case.

The guy chose NOT to take on a job as a public defender. He took a job as a
_part-time_ public defender, paid hourly wages, instead of pursuing available
full time positions in the public defender's office.

The distinction is meaningful because the federal government repays all
student loans for lawyers who work in the public/non-profit sectors for 10
years in full-time positions. This is known as loan forbearance. However, it
does not apply to lawyers who take on part-time jobs.

~~~
thebooktocome
Wow. That's doubly irrational.

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rflrob
I'm having trouble getting the facts through the indignant tone of the
article... how much of this is "can't get a better job until I pass the bar,
can't pass the bar until I pay off my debts (for which I need a better job)"?

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dschobel
He had a job as a stock broker and changed it for a $12 /hr part time job,
which is what the board took issue with.

Honestly, it's neither that interesting nor that well written of an article.

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slavak
The guy is deep in debt, but chose to keep a low-paying part-time job he
[presumably] likes and to default on his loans instead of seeking options that
would allow him to keep his obligations. And the complaint is that the guy
should be free to do what makes him happy?!

Really? Is this a location issue? Because to me that sounds like the entitled
moaning of a 10 year-old. The real world does not and should not care what YOU
feel like doing. People are expected to behave like adults and to uphold their
obligations. It's YOUR job to figure out a way to do what you love while
successfully doing that - not everyone else's.

On the other hand, please correct me if I'm missing some important issue here.

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archangel_one
I think it is also a significant indicator that he has $16,500 in credit card
debt which he also can't pay off. That sounds to me more like he has serious
problems around understanding his financial responsibilities than a law
student who was required to rack up a large student loan but was doing their
best to control it.

I am not convinced by some of the indignant tone of the article either - maybe
they have no right to tell him what he should be doing with his life, but
surely the whole point of the bar exam is that they have the right to decide
if he's the kind of person they want to allow to pass the bar?

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adelevie
That's about $5,000/year while enrolled in law school. Is it _that_ bad?

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muerdeme
Usually the financial aid office includes (extra) generous allowances for
food, travel, and rent expenses that may be included in your student loans.
Any credit card debt is on top of all of that.

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blackguardx
He has a daughter and might be supporting his mother as well. My parents
raised me and my sister off of student loans and credit cards while they were
going to school. I think it is pretty common if you have a family to raise.

~~~
ericd
The article seemed to mention that he was not contributing to the family's
expenses.

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thefool
All other things aside, people actually had a huge amount of freedom when it
came to job choice in soviet russia.

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alanh
As an Arizona State Univ. grad myself, I can say that his undergrad _alma
mater_ probably doesn’t help his Character assessment!

… but as far as (fiscal) fitness, it’s known to be an exceptionally cheap
school, so at least he tried to keep his undergrad debt to a minimum.

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danilocampos
When companies find a way to escape their debts, it's "strategic." When
individuals so much as contemplate it, it's morally reprehensible.

Not a bad dichotomy to set up if you run or own a large business.

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whackedspinach
Why is the C&F section even on the test? I thought you had to have no
character to be a lawyer.

