
Wall Street Battles Silicon Valley for Tech Geeks - jeffmiller
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704637704576082512439373244.html
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techclimber
I want to chime in here because I took a job in this industry (high frequency
trading in particular) right out of college.

I can't speak for the whole industry as I've only worked at one firm, but my
experience has been generally positive:

1\. The work environment is similar to the software companies I interned with.
Nobody wears a suit, the hierarchy is relatively flat, free food/soda/etc.

2\. The problems are really interesting. HFT is a competitive game and good
(read: fast and reliable) technology is just as important as smart algorithms.

The only downside? It's difficult to leave. I've had coworkers that have been
around a while say that people generally don't leave the industry voluntarily.

Why? Money. I'm not trying to be a braggart but I can say with a high degree
of certainty that I will never make as much as a developer at a normal
software shop as I do now, with the exception of launching or getting in at
the very early stages of a successful startup.

Believe me, I get the whole "money isn't everything", "adding real social
value is more rewarding" mindset, I do. The reality is though that it isn't
easy to halve your salary based on a philosophical argument, however
persuasive, especially when you're still working on cool problems.

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loganfrederick
I'm currently an undergrad making a custom major at my university in
Computational Finance. Could I get in touch with you via HN to ask about your
experience in the industry? Thanks.

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techclimber
Sure.

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loganfrederick
Ah, typo in parent comment. I meant "via email". If you read this comment, I'd
greatly appreciate an email at loganfrederick@gmail.com so you don't have to
post your email publicly. Thanks again!

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zmitri
If you are a college student reading this and have the slightest inkling of
entrepreneurial flare, please please please do not work for a financial
company/wall street.

I can assure it will be nothing compared to what you are able to accomplish by
starting your own company and building something you care about. In finance,
you will be fighting against transparency for the sake of maintaining profits
when you could be doing something way more important... And yes the problem
solving is fun at first, but then you realize that you could be problem
solving on something that matters to you. A few thousand dollars more doesn't
matter, and if you figure in the cost of living in NYC you're probably making
less.

That is my advice, take it or leave, but please, think about what you're
doing.

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j_baker
On the other hand, working for one of these firms can be a _huge_ motivator to
start your own. Sometimes, it takes the experience of something you hate to
teach you the value of something you love.

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zmitri
Definitely true. That being said, the advice of others in a similar situation
can also help you realize that something is not at all what its made up to be.

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deepGem
This has been a well known phenomenon for quite a while. Even back in the 90s,
when algorithmic trading picked up steam, wall st rushed to hire math Phds and
now wall st wants algo geeks. It'll be really hard to woo hackers to work in
the hierarchy driven wall st culture. Some hedge funds are opening offices
around Berkeley and subscribing to the valley way of life.

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ahlatimer
For those that are behind the paywall:
[http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=128...](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1280&bih=1320&q=Wall+Street+Battles+Silicon+Valley+for+Tech+Geeks+site:wsj.com&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=)

Click the first link.

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epistasis
\--"I've had people in interviews ask me point-blank what the social value is
that we're adding," Mr. Chau said.

This is a question that shouldn't be uncommon, and should be easy to answer.
If people at these financial firms can't easily answer it (and _don't_ say "we
increase market liquidity by 1e-30%!"), it's no wonder new hires with lots of
prospects would avoid them. Why not work at, say, Facebook, where you're
taking part in changing the way people interact, and every single person your
age is using your product every day.

If the most interesting thing you do in a day is increase the wealth of others
for a tiny tiny fraction of it, that's a huge opportunity cost. You could be
be spending 40-60 hours a week doing something you find much more rewarding,
and still have high enough a wage to meet all your financial goals.

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gaius
On the other hand, you could equally say that Facebook's business is finding a
way to exploit people's personal data for profit. They are no better nor worse
than any investment bank.

90% of web startups are "finding new ways for people to waste (their
employer's) time so we can show them banner ads". Social good? Just sayin'.

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epistasis
Oh, I've already got a whole list of reasons that potential hires shouldn't go
work for Facebook. :) But you also need to give a recruit positive reasons to
come work for you.

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tjsnyder
Behind a pay wall so we can't read much...

The topic says it all though. It's true, Wall Street is on a hiring frenzy
right now and they've started to realize how important good talent is.

It means they are going to have to start offering more to get the talent that
typically dives off into silicon valley. NYC suits are also a hard sell to the
t-shirt style of the west coast and that in itself may be a difficult
obstacle.

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juhygtfghjk
In silicon valley you don't have to go and fetch coffee for traders.

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beoba
You also don't have to leave your ethics behind when coming into the office.

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j_baker
Eh... I don't know that that's necessarily true. Say what you will about
financial firms, but it's not like they pay you to club baby seals while
startups pay you to care for orphaned bunny rabbits and kittens. There are
startups out there that are unethical along with financial firms who have
completely legitimate business models that provide unquestionable value for
society.

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beoba
Yeah, not saying they don't exist, but good luck finding them.

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Locke1689
FWIW, I just turned down an internship at a Chicago HFT company to work for
Google this summer. I found the interview process and working conditions to be
pretty similar to the tech industry, actually. The clincher for me was that I
think it's easier to go tech -> finance than the other way around.

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loewenskind
I'm not so sure this is the case. Even though finance is usually an easier
environment (e.g. the markets aren't open 24/7 so the apps usually don't have
high availability) the people hiring there think that if you haven't worked in
finance you can't work in finance.

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Locke1689
Fair enough. I haven't really decided what I want to do after I finish my MS.

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j_baker
Could someone provide a summary for those of us without a WSJ account?

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nano81
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