

Ask HN: How to avoid a start-up guy? - kreeda

I'm a college student and I also do freelance web dev when I find time. My brother's friend plans to do a startup in medical tourism and he talked me over to make a website for his company. He claims to be working in Barclays bank, which is supposed to pay him very well, but he always tried to divert the topic when I talked about money.<p>We talked over it, two from their side and two from mine (me and my partner). We fixed a meet the other day and me and my web-dev partner have decided to clarify on the money part soon before we even touch the project.<p>The startup guy tried all the ways of getting me excited about it, like - "You'll get to be at a good position once we start the company" and....<p>"When are you passing out?"<p>Then after that group chat was over, he called me and talked about how he trusts me and he chose me to help out for he knew me since school days n stuff like that. And, then he disclosed that what he needs from us is a dummy website to show in his presentations to investors. And he's also stating that as a reason why he wants to get it done in cheap from me.<p>(What the heck, a website is a website, even if you dump it somewhere after purchasing, I don't care for I put my effort in it, and you need to pay)<p>Now, I wonder whether I should proceed or not as my college keep me busy from 7am to 5pm. And, it seems impractical to think about being at top in his company, because I pass out after 2 years!<p>and then when I told we charge $20 per page, his jaw dropped and he felt as if I said something wrong.<p>I hope a person working in Barclays bank, gets paid well enough to spare $100 for a 5 page website for his startup!<p>I was learning how to contribute to Open Source and specifically to the GNOME project, how to write patches and things like source control n stuff, till this startup guy bugged me.<p>He's even not comfortable in giving us any advance!<p>He is kind of an old friend and I am wondering what would be the best way to avoid him?<p>And also if what I was doing (Open Source stuff) before he bugged me was a better thing to do than work for him?
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ErrantX
Just tell him no; very clearly, very simply. Tell him what you told us: that
college is really busy for you and you want to spend time developing XYZ
skills rather than contributing to a startup. Thaking him for the offer might
help smoothy the path.

It's easier for everyone in the long run.

From what you've said he ticks all of my "avoid this one" boxes - so I would
if I were you.

~~~
pasbesoin
And if you're worried about the "friend" aspect, I'll say that from your
description his current approach sounds manipulative. In that sense, he's
already given up [EDIT: or on his way to giving up] on the friendship; his
"project" is leading him to manipulate his friends.

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noonespecial
What you've got here is a charity case. No matter whats promised, you're
almost certain to get nothing out of the deal.

If you think that its worth doing a few extra hours of work to help out this
'old friend' then tell him exactly that and do it without expectation (or
request) of any financial compensation. If not, just tell him that you've
taken on all you can handle right now. Sorry. _Repeat as necessary._

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hymanroth
If he won't even invest $100 for a mock-up he's not serious about the project,
end of.

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noodle
sounds like a typical idea man. the kind of guy who has an invention he wants
to patent and sell for a billion dollars, or someone who has an idea for a
startup but has no idea on how to execute.

if you feel like this relationship has potential for a future, eat the $100 or
so cost and try and create something he wants just to see what will happen.
don't get suckered into doing anything else.

if you don't, tell him no. or treat him as a client.

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uptown
If I were you, I'd just tell him it's not something I want to work on, and
leave it at that. If you need an excuse, tell him you don't want to mix
business ventures with personal friendships ... even though it's your
brother's friend, and not yours. Based on your post, it appears that the
relationship is already being strained because of the project, and it will
only get worse if you were to assume some level of responsibility.

Your last sentence mentioned that the startup guy is excited about a
particular sector. Are you excited by that sector? If not, then it's another
reason not to get involved.

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brk
You should not avoid him, just tell him that you do not work for free.

$100 _plus_ some equity in the company (either now, or a signed contractual
agreement for such after the company is formed/funded) is perfectly
reasonable.

I also somewhat doubt his ability to pull this off from what you have
described. A basic 5 page website is not really going to show very much. It's
not going to be functional, it's basically going to be some glorified images
and text. He should at the very least be able to mock up something himself in
Powerpoint to show a "conceptual" webpage. If he cannot, I would question his
ability to communicate the idea effectively enough to get off the ground with
the idea.

Also, somewhat related, I would caution you against charging "by the page".
That model encourages endless requests for tweaks and changes. If you are
going to do any project like this, I would probably go with something like
$20/page to implement a page to the rough spec drawn out in an initial
meeting, PLUS $20/hour for any changes/updates/edits after the first draft
iteration.

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ScottWhigham
I think that is greedy. The guy charges $20 a page and now you want him to get
equity as well? Why? You are advocating he gets paid his full rate. An equity
deal would only work if you were either (a) paying him well below his rate,
and/or (b) you knew that you just had to have this one person's work above all
others. It doesn't make sense in this case to ask for equity for $100 deal lol

~~~
brk
It _always_ makes sense to ask for equity in a scenario like this. If you do
not ask for it, you will certainly NOT receive it.

Additionally, I was trying to give him some general purpose practical advice.
Charging $20/page is really undervaluing his work. Additionally it seems that
the business idea guy does HAVE to have his work, as he doesn't seem to have
many options or other people to go to.

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stuff4ben
Point him to elance and if he still complains about your paltry $100 bucks
then tell him to take a hike.

~~~
ScottWhigham
Yeah, I second this one. He can get it done for $100 on elance using some
foreign company who will just give him a template design. He'll likely need to
pay $400 for a complete logo + web package though.

