

Razer will not cancel 90%-off test coupons - arcatek
https://www.facebook.com/minliangtan/posts/512572145467239

======
shocks
I remember when Apple mispriced their 1TB hard drives at $30 instead of $300
[1]. All orders were cancelled.

I'm a huge fan of Razer. I own many of their products and would recommend them
all, especially the DeathAdder mouse. Seriously, it's quite possibly the best
mouse you will ever use.

I didn't get anything ordered with a 90% reduction, but I think I'll be
ordered an Orbweaver later today. They deserve it.

1: [http://www.digital-
forums.com/showthread.php/307773-Misprice...](http://www.digital-
forums.com/showthread.php/307773-Misprice-Time-Iomega-1TB-Hard-
drive-%C2%A325-24-delivered)

edit: Spelling, and added the only source I could find.

~~~
ohkine
I have a DeathAdder. The mouse itself (the hardware) is great. However, the
software (the thing that really makes the mouse functional and configurable,
which is what i thought i was paying for) is one of the most absurd and
infuriating things i have ever had to deal with.

The configuration tool was designed in the vein of Steam — it requires an
Internet connection to use it. At all. So before you can change the mouse
settings, before the mouse will even LOAD its settings, you must create a
Razer account and sign in to their online service through the tool. Only then
will you be able to do anything with the mouse.

Also like Steam, there is an option to 'go offline', but it (perhaps
unintentionally) doesn't seem to persist across sessions. So if you lose your
connection and then you reboot the computer or the tool crashes (which is
semi-frequent), you're back to where you started — a log-in prompt.

In addition to that, just from a usability perspective, the software is a
disaster. It is a mass of grey-on-grey text, modal panes, near-full-screen
sliders, and unexplained icons that i dread even thinking about using. In
addition, the tool adds an ugly menu-bar icon that you can't get rid of, and
once you install the software you can never close it — if you try to kill the
tool or any of its background services, the entire thing will respawn. And
just to give you that extra punch in the face, every time the tool starts (at
boot or because one of its background services crashed) the giant black-and-
green blob pops up on top of everything else. HEY, HEY, LOG IN TO YOUR MOUSE
NOW

The scroll wheel is also apparently non-configurable on OS X, which is
incredible because the default behaviour is some pre-Windows-95 we've-just-
invented-scroll-wheels one-pixel-per-rotation insanity.

Lastly, every single update to the software requires that you reboot the
entire machine.

I am not exaggerating when i say that i loathe using this god-damn mouse.

~~~
shocks
> HEY, HEY, LOG IN TO YOUR MOUSE NOW > Lastly, every single update to the
> software requires that you reboot the entire machine.

I only used the software once, a few years ago. I never logged into anything,
it never required internet access, it never frequently updated and it never
required a reboot.

You realise you don't _need_ the software right? You can use the mouse
perfectly without it. All the software lets you do is change the sensitivity
(any good OS will let you do that), turn off the light, and program the
"bottom" button. The light is under your hand 90% of the time and is off when
your computer is off. It's a non-issue. The button the bottom is in an
irritating position and I have _never_ needed to use it. Sure, you could
configure it to change sensitivity during a game (consider running and gunning
vs. accurate sniping, perhaps?) but in reality no one is going to lift their
mouse during an computer game to adjust the sensitivity.

> the default behaviour is some pre-Windows-95 we've-just-invented-scroll-
> wheels one-pixel-per-rotation insanity.

I have never experienced this problem. I don't know what you're talking about.

~~~
kbd
> All the software lets you do is change the sensitivity (any good OS will let
> you do that), turn off the light, and program the "bottom" button.

Except if you have a mouse like the Naga with more programmable buttons,
they're all useless unless you use the software.

~~~
tbob22
Did you try something like X-Mouse Button Control?

It works great on my MX518 so I don't have to use the terrible Logitech
software to configure the extra buttons. :)

~~~
kbd
Just looked that up. It's Windows-only and I use a Mac.

Regardless, I'm using the old, pre-Synapse drivers and they work ok.

------
aviswanathan
They basically just ran a (very extreme) Groupon. Most companies that do daily
deals lose money on them in hopes of turning some of those initial customers
into recurring or lifetime customers or to increase awareness for their
products.

This 'mishap' may have similar yet increased effects because of the impressive
way they handled the situation. For example, I doubt Razer would have ever
imagined their story landing on the frontpage of a high-traffic site like HN,
but now that it has, I (and probably hundreds or thousands of others) have
gone to their site to get more info.

Really shows that with smart and agile situation-response, you can turn an
unpleasant circumstance into an opportunity.

~~~
deltaqueue
Unfortunately, the vast majority of Groupon customers do not return for
additional purchases and the people who capitalize on these types of deals are
100% price-conscious vultures[1] (also, I used to be one of these people). At
the end of the day, this was a very poor business decision and just a PR
gamble.

People are primarily driven by price when they buy goods, so after 6 months or
so people will forget this extremely generous act. Razer fans will remain
razer fans, but unless Razer has a product leaps and bounds ahead of the
competition (some are, but most are only marginally superior) very few will
become loyal customers due to this act of kindness.

[1] [http://businessmodelinstitute.com/is-customer-retention-
the-...](http://businessmodelinstitute.com/is-customer-retention-the-achilles-
heel-of-groupon%E2%80%99s-business-model/)

~~~
homosaur
The thing that's a bit different about this is that most of these customers
are NOT price-conscious vultures, they are enthusiasts. Otherwise, they would
have said "Razer? Who the hell is that?" These products are not well known
outside hardcore PC gamers. PC gamers are willing to drop a TON of cash on
their hobby or else they wouldn't be hardcore PC gamers.

The longtime Razer fans to some degree seem to be canceling their orders. At
least with the ones you'll be shipping still I'd think the majority of those
are strong PC gaming enthusiasts who have friends who are as well. Their stuff
is quite shiny and attractive in general.

------
grimman
In the grand scheme of things, however, this will be a lot cheaper than
conventional advertising.

This is not a bad thing for anyone, as they are currently sponsoring e-sports
in a "big" way, and have done so for well over a decade now. I may no longer
use or appreciate their gear the way I used to, but they definitely stand by
their demographic. Definitely an ace move in by Razer here, in every regard.

~~~
niteshade
+1 agree completely, honestly its rare that a company honours glitchy orders,
at least in my experience, so I'm quite shocked actually. I've been a Razer
person for a while, and I haven't found anything else quite like it. What do
you use, and why is it better?

~~~
grimman
The only Razer product I've been truly happy with was the Diamondback, which
was nearly identical to the MX518 in terms of hardware. With a bit of driver
hacking (really just substituting the vendor and hardware ID) you could run
the MX518 with Razer drivers, which I did for a long time.

I used Razer products since the Boomslang (with its floppy button problem,
which was a material flaw, not component related). Among others, I had a
Nostromo and Lachesis.

The Nostromo was nice enough, but had some pretty strange glitches (it would
at times switch profiles and just act really strangely). The hand-rest was
coated in some rubbery thing which absolutely loved to attract any dirt and
dust in the room, and ended up requiring very frequent cleaning.

As for the Lachesis, there was a HUGE component flaw in the sensor, which was
partially remedied by a ton of driver updates, but never fully fixed in my
case. The cursor would drift, be subject to negative acceleration or simply
not respond at all. Definitely not the kind of thing you'd want for any kind
of input, really.

What Logitech offers for me in this case is seemingly iterative hardware
development, and great support. It's not flawless, it's not flashy, but it's
safe and they have excellent customer service to make up for it. I'm no longer
young enough to care for flashy gear. ;)

~~~
dhucerbin
Lachesis uses Philips Twin Eye PLN 2031. This sensor have some z-axis issues.
Anyway its minor problem in comparision with mx518, which have some serious
angle snapping/prediction.

------
somesay
I don't really agree that this is a good way. 90% discount is obviously a
mistake and it is more than their right to cancel those orders. I would fully
understand that.

Processing those orders doesn't seems that fair to me. Same rare people get
90% (!) off, all others don't. And FCFS isn't a cool, really fair principle.
It is often used, because it is easy to implement and doesn't require more
information than just time.

Also I expect the rate of people who ordered just because it is cheap and have
no real appropriation is pretty high on that discount. Not talking about
people who just wanna resell it on eBay.

What else could they have done?

    
    
      * Make a general discount (e.g. 10-30%) for all potential 
        shoppers for the next weeks.
      * Spend the lost money for development
      * Hire more people
      * Donate it to charity
      * Make a challenge in any fair way. Again, time and 
        reaction is a pretty unfair criterion.
      * Sponsorship
      * ...
    

Again, FCFS is some type of fairness, but I think a pretty bad one.

Also not sure if this is real marketing. Are their clients really that
community based and speaking about such thing? Aren't more just angry because
they hadn't the chance to use the opportunity?

Facebook comment (from source): "Well that's absurdly consumer friendly"

TL;DR: If you give some customers 90% discount for no reason, it means unfair
prices for all others. Is that really consumer friendly?

~~~
blairbeckwith
Who said anything about fair? This is a business, not a charity.

~~~
netc
Fairness is what perceived by consumers or customers. Remember the episode of
Apple decreasing the price of iPhone by $200.

------
sbisker
They basically just turned this into a huge experiment in price discrimination
for those customers who genuinely feel bad for what happened.

Those customers who feel bad and were originally willing to pay the full price
savings will likely cancel and reorder. Those customers who feel bad and
genuinely _could not_ pay the full price, will keep their discounted orders,
and the company will get to keep those people as customers well into the
future.

I'm curious how transparent they'll be with how many canceled their orders
when the dust settles - would be a good case study for other companies in this
boat who want to trust their customers to do the right thing for themselves.

------
sdfjkl
That's customer friendly. Requiring users to register on their website in
order to be able to log in to the mouse driver settings is not.

~~~
danielsamuels
I've never had to log in to any Razer software, stop spreading FUD.

~~~
sdfjkl
Now you made me look it up. It's called Synapse 2 and when I bought (and
subsequently returned) a Razer Naga Hex in September last year it was the only
way to configure the mouse. Specifically, you needed it to configure the
keyboard emulation keys for the thumb buttons. It did require a registration
and login. The excuse for this was some "store your settings in The Cloud"
bollocks which I had absolutely no use for - I just wanted to configure my
fancy mouse.

You can find it at <http://www.razerzone.com/synapse2> and the tech specs
there state that "Valid e-mail, software download, license acceptance, and
internet connection needed to activate full features and for software
updates." For a bloody mouse driver.

------
seferphier
90% is definitely a huge loss. But like other users said this bug only applied
to the UK store that does not sell Razer blade.

That said most of razer's customers are repeated purchasers and that honoring
the orders is going to generate a lot of good will among its core customers. A
very bold move though.

------
k-mcgrady
This is the first I've heard about this but a good response from the business.
I noticed he said they can legally cancel all the orders - is that true? As
far as I was aware the law (at least in the UK) is that if a product is
advertised at a certain price, even if it's a mistake, the business has to
provide it at that price to any customer who gets in before they fix the
mistake with the only catch being that the business is only obliged to sell
one unit of the item at the incorrect price if they realise there has been a
mistake (just from what I've heard from people working in retail).

Edit: thanks for making it clearer below

~~~
EwanToo
That's a commonly held misbelief.

If it's an honest mistake, there's no requirement to sell it, and beyond that
most email confirmations say something like this from Amazon:

This e-mail is only an acknowledgement of receipt of your order and your
contract to purchase these items is not complete until we send you an e-mail
notifying you that the items have been dispatched to you.

~~~
somesay
Exactly. And I think that's pretty fair, too.

------
bnycum
Good for them on following through, I'm sure it will bring repeat business.
Maybe 6-7+ years ago I attempted to make multiple purchases through dell.com
over several months. All 3 were killed because the website listed the wrong
price. I remember once I bought something like a USB drive for $47.99 and the
real price was suppose to be $49.99. None of the purchases were near 20% off
much less 90% in this case. I've still never ordered from Dell and never will.

------
peterhunt
This is so great I went to their site to buy a mouse at full price right now.

Then they asked for my credit card info. Without https.

~~~
RKearney
Just tried and I got https. I believe you were mistaken.

~~~
peterhunt
The page which hosts the form was definitely not. Perhaps it got confused on
an iPhone 5.

------
sas1ni69
Probably this is how much it costs to manufacture these overpriced products.

~~~
jamornh
I don't think you can seriously believe that the Razer Blade being sold for
$250 is "cost price."

But I'm sure they did a full calculation of the costs that they'd have to eat
if they honor this mistake and thought it was worth it for the good PR it
would create.

~~~
skore
90% pretty certainly means they were selling them at a loss, but I would agree
that it's probably not as huge a loss as a 90% discount would suggest. In the
"enthusiast" branch of the market, I would guess that a margin of at least 50%
should be pretty standard. A $250 mouse very certainly costs far less than
$250 to produce, although you always have to factor in their other business
cost - advertisement and design to establish an "enthusiast" branch might even
exceed what they pay on manufacturing. (This is also why you see them do so
many sponsorships - it's simply a very, very cheap way to get exposure.)

I would think that it's not impossible that this was planned.

1234 as a coupon code is even something that people might find by mistake,
meaning you wouldn't even have to try hard to seed the rumor. Just put it into
the system and know that somewhere in the future, you will get a huge PR
without much effort (other than stopping it after a certain period of time and
accepting some losses).

~~~
Encosia
Jamornh wasn't referring to a $250 mouse. He's referring to this $2,500 gaming
laptop at 90% off: <http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade>

Selling those for $250 is obviously a massive loss on just the hardware alone.

~~~
skore
Wow, I really didn't know that they also made laptops! Thanks!

~~~
Encosia
Don't feel too bad. I had no idea either until I did a search for "razer
blade" after reading his comment.

------
jonaphin
Cool marketing stunt.

------
Koder2013
Has nothing to do with customer friendliness. As a customer I would feel like
a fool buying something at full price now.

------
drivebyacct2
losethos seems to have gotten carried away. Enjoyed the holiday too much
maybe?

~~~
MartinCron
Losethos appears to be struggling with a tragic and long-term mental illness.
I don't think it's good form to make fun of him.

~~~
drivebyacct2
You're absolutely right, that was inappropriate.

