

Google Launches Virtual World (Rooms) Called "Lively" - dkasper
http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/08/google-launches-virtual-world-called-lively/

======
ydavid
I don't understand why they didn't create the app using Flash 9. There are
some really impressive 3-D apps using Flash 9 and if they used Flash, it would
work on Macs and Linux also. does_not_make_sense . I honestly expected that if
anything, google would come up with some cool tricks to make it work without
requiring any plugins at all, even Flash.

Check out this amazing app called AlternativaPlatform (Disclaimer: They not
friends of mine and I don't have any connection.) if you want to see what's
possible for 3D using just regular Flash 9. It's the most impressive example
that I've seen so far. The link goes to their blog, which contains a bunch of
demos:

<http://blog.alternativaplatform.com/en/>

This is another really cool Flash 9 - based 3D app: <http://ecodazoo.com/>
(Disclaimer: No personal or financial connections here either.)

Maybe there are some technical requirements that I'm not aware of the
necessitated using a custom plugin. Assuming that there was a good reason for
it, why didn't they integrate it into an update for their Google Toolbar
product or the Google Earth browser plugin? I'd be curious to hear any ideas
on the subject.

~~~
dats
Avi Bar-Zeev* talks about that and more in this blog post.

<http://www.realityprime.com/articles/google-lively>

"Ah, finally, we get to see the long rumored Google Virtual World, or one of
them anyway. There’s also rumored to be another one with a remarkably similar
aesthetic that’s only 2D and doesn’t require a plugin and install. [I imagine
they could use this 3D technology on the server side to flatten their avatars
into isometric sprites that could be rendered in Flash or AJAX, ala google
maps on the client. Any bets?]"

*Avi founded Keyhole which built what eventually became Google Earth

~~~
ydavid
The _rumored_ version sounds much more interesting than the current one. The
time required to test out a service using flash/ajax is just as long as the
page takes to load. With an applet it probably takes a minimum commitment of
at least 5-10 minutes to get the thing to install properly. And I hope that
it's well-tested so that it doesn't conflict with any of my Firefox plugins...

An article linked from the realityprime.com article that you listed has an
interesting quote:

Our mandate was to get usage," Guymon (note: Mel Guymon, Google's Head of 3D
Operations [and former There.com developer and IMVU Co-Founder]) said of his
business plan. "The difference from the startups I’ve been in is that startups
have to turn a profit or die. All the projects in Google are run as startups,
but we’re given an incredibly amount of rope to be successful. We’re not about
to run out of money and die. For Google it’s the opportunity to get into a
space that we think is really going to be important in the long term. For me
personally, I think this is going to make people’s online experiences richer
and more interesting. For generations coming up from age 4, this is what they
expect. For Google, that was really the stake in the road"

[http://www.virtualworldsnews.com/2008/07/google-
announce.htm...](http://www.virtualworldsnews.com/2008/07/google-
announce.html#more)

Any thoughts? To me it sounds like they're a bit undisciplined. I'm not sure
that it's a recipe for success to just throw money at a project. Constraints
often help shape a product in good ways. In this particular example, it could
have been a _good thing_ if they didn't have enough programming resources to
build and test their own plugin. They would have had to live within the
limitations of the flash plugin, but that tradeoff could prove in retrospect
to have been well worth it.

------
tlrobinson
Why?!

A few years ago Google was doing awesome new cool stuff... significantly
better search, advertising products, cutting edge JavaScript stuff like Google
Maps and Gmail, etc.

Now they just seem to be copying things others have done first, like Open
Social, Android, App Engine, and now Lively.

~~~
staunch
If you think about it almost every Google product has been directly inspired
by something else. They're in the business of evolutionary improvements and
throwing their weight behind them (Offering 1GB storage on Gmail for example
or free Google App Engine). Sounds kind of like what Microsoft did really.

~~~
bayareaguy
Indeed. Even their adwords/adsense business model was copied from Overture.

~~~
axod
When something is a god awful as Overture though, it makes a great deal of
sense to copy parts of the model, but do it properly.

------
icey
Am I the only one who is concerned that when the Metaverse comes, we'll all be
cartoons and giant walking penises?

~~~
michaelneale
Do you mean a metaverse in a singularity?

~~~
icey
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaverse>

~~~
michaelneale
Ah - it was "the Metaverse" phrasing that confused me. Presumably there
wouldn't be just one.

------
hugh
That looks really un-googly. The whole idea of chatting with someone using a
complicated 3D avatar goes against google's usual fondness for simplicity in
interface design. I assume it started out as somebody's side project, but I'm
amazed that they launched it.

I'm sure it's a well-polished product, and that it'll be popular with teenage
girls, but "popular with teenage girls" isn't usually google's goal, is it?

~~~
rms
I'm unimpressed, I was expecting Google Earth to become their virtual world
product.

~~~
ChaitanyaSai
Creating their own virtual worlds gives them access to their own real
(virtual) estate that they can plaster with ads.

Avatar based chats are probably better than existing text-in-a-window ones for
multi-person conversations because of the ease with which we can localize and
assign voices to faces. I'd consider this the first significant step (by
Google) in doing away with physical co-location of office workers.

~~~
michaelneale
>I'd consider this the first significant step (by Google) in doing away with
physical co-location of office workers.

You mean starting with themselves? Google are very much old school in terms of
making people work in regular (ish) offices, partly through culture and partly
through the need for hush hush security.

~~~
blinks
Um, I work at Google, and I know people that have come into the office _once_
in the past six months.

> Google are very much old school in terms of making people work in regular
> (ish) offices

This is just not true.

~~~
michaelneale
Well thats good to hear (I only know people in Sydney and Mountain View
offices, and they tell me they didn't know anyone that worked like that).

Of course its nice to have good offices to go to when you so choose. Its just
I know that when I go to an office I normally get nothing done (its almost too
social).

------
JesseAldridge
_"Requires Windows Vista/XP"_

Boo.

~~~
axod
I'd say the sort of people likely to be interested in playing with virtual
avatars are likely to be running Windows.

Maybe that's a generalization too far, but it seems like it should be so.

~~~
greyman
Please elaborate.

------
Harkins
This is trouble for <a href="<http://areae.net>">Areae</a>, an online gaming
platform startup that has Raph Koster and a few other names (including a
friend of mine).

~~~
bilbo0s
These online virtual world/gaming technologies are actually fairly simple to
implement. I am sure that someone as enlightened as Raph Koster probably
realizes that there are lots of companies, not to mention college kids in
dorms, putting these together right now. SOME of those projects are bound to
be better than his, others worse. Believe me, they have probably already
factored that in to their plan.

If not, I agree, this is bad news for them, because hundreds more are coming.

------
aston
I have this gut feeling that Google recently acquired some company that was
already doing all of this stuff. Although I can't tell who, and TC doesn't
hint towards anyone.

Regardless, this service isn't all that new. There are lots of characters
created in the summer 2007 timeframe linked from the Catalog page (like
[http://www.lively.com/catalog/details?mid=-84971956863432942...](http://www.lively.com/catalog/details?mid=-849719568634329420)).

~~~
bilbo0s
No, Google TRIED to acquire IMVU. When IMVU pulled a Yahoo, Google decided to
hire away one of their key guys, who was a co-founder as well. Then they put
him on Lively.

Google is learning to do business the Microsoft way. Make an offer ONCE. They
don't take it . . . make an example of them. The next startup you want will
take the money, even if you are lowballing them.

~~~
phenylene
Citation required.

~~~
bilbo0s
Among other places:

[http://www.virtualworldsnews.com/2008/07/google-
announce.htm...](http://www.virtualworldsnews.com/2008/07/google-
announce.html)

------
radley
best comment on techcrunch:

google has just "jumped the shark."

------
sebastianavina
Lilvely uses facebook accounts?

Google uses facebook accounts?

[http://www.lively.com/help/bin/answer.py?answer=98532&sr...](http://www.lively.com/help/bin/answer.py?answer=98532&src=top5&lev=answer)

wtf??

~~~
truebosko
Facebook Connect and all that jazz.

------
culley
There is interest in the corporate space for 3d interaction of tools and
equipment w/ folks from different geos. Complex troubleshooting, training,
etc.

I'll be playing with Lively in the morning behind the firewall.

------
brandonkm
My first reaction to this is "omg! wtf!? why?", but I really shouldn't knock
it until i've tried it. This could actually be really cool...IF you have
windows xp/vista and like this sort of thing.

------
sdurkin
Hopefully they'll integrate it with their actually functional apps.

I'm still waiting for the metaverse where I can accomplish real tasks in a
pseudo-natural way.

------
pmorici
This reminds me of The Sims: Online game from back in 2002. Even the music
sounds similar to The Sims game.

------
russ
google 2008 = microsoft 2004

~~~
russ
edit: microsoft 1994

