
Show HN: Discreet dead man's switch for victims of domestic abuse - deif
https://www.deadmantracker.com/discreet-release-article
======
sho
At the risk of sounding insensitive - I don't understand what this is. I know
what a dead man's switch is, of course - maybe an app that emails your next in
kin your email password or cryptocurrency private key if you haven't checked
in for a few months. But what would this do? SMS the hospital/police if it's
been 24 hours since you played hangman? What is an actual example of intended
use?

I know it's probably not this simple, but it seems to me that if you're at the
point where you're installing apps to take action in the case you're
incapacitated by abuse, you should probably skip the app part and just take
that action immediately...

~~~
deif
So in the cases of domestic abuse, the victims usually contact a charity that
organises a way for them to escape safely. That means setting them up with a
new place to live, a job so that they can afford to live (as usually victims
will be dependent on their partners), etc. This takes a bit of time and the
victims usually stay in their abusive environment if they can (due to over
capacity of shelters and other reasons, I'm not the most knowledgeable about
all this). But a support network will be available and they'll have a number
to call, or friends and family that they can call instead.

The problem is that even though this support network exists, victims often
have their phones taken away from their abusers so they end up stuck. If
friends and family go round to the house, their abusers can refuse entry and
say that the victim is fine or sleeping when in fact they're in danger. This
app does not intend to phone authorities, it is down to the individual support
network to organise that as they see fit, this app only intends to reach out
to the support network as fast as possible when it is needed. If there is a
true emergency and they can call emergency services then they can do so,
emergency services are set up to handle this. In the case that the victims
only want to notify their support network then they can do so from the app
using the panic button.

It might be the case in the future that I build contacts with emergency
services for a more involved response but I simply do not have the contacts at
this point in time.

~~~
jonahx
Constructive feedback: All the copy on both your website and in the app store
assumes that one knows what a dead man's switch is in general, and what it
means in this context in particular (ie, what you wrote above).

I had to use wikipedia to even (sort of) understand what you were selling.

~~~
gowld
It's also an absolute gobsmackingly terrible term to use for this application.

~~~
deif
What makes you say that? It operates exactly like a dead man's switch.

~~~
DonHopkins
How is that not gobsmackingly obvious to you??! Look at the words you just
typed.

There are millions of other innocuous games whose names don't invoke death,
men, capital punishment, gallows, prison, nooses, lynching, strangulation,
hanging, suicide, murder, etc. For God's sake, pick one of those, instead of
"hangman" and "dead man's switch".

Might as well call it "Kill My Abusive Boyfriend".

The whole point is NOT to be obvious when an abusive boyfriend looks through
all the apps on your phone.

Hangman's not even a plausibly amusing game. Who even plays hangman on their
phone?

How about "Pokemon NO!"

~~~
deif
I completely agree with you, but as I explained in the article I am limited by
Apple's restrictions. I could get around this by side loading the app but then
I make the barrier to entry higher.

If you can believe it originally this was a 2048 game (see the android
version) but Apple suggested they would only approve the app if it was a hang
man game and I named it 'Dead Man'. I wish I were joking. You have to
understand that this functionality did not exist before today and my target
audience previously were travellers, students, journalists, and privacy
conscious people so I'm stuck trying to be relevant to multiple sets of
audiences and a technical term that has 'dead' and 'man' in the name.

~~~
DonHopkins
I'm not sure I get what the issue with the Apple store is. I read the article,
and I'm still confused. What did you want to do, and why did they not yet you
do it? Why does the name of the app need to have any relation to what it does?
There are plenty of apps named things like "Blorg" that do all kinds of things
that there's not even a word for. The name doesn't need to be descriptive,
it's just a brand. "Pokemon Go" doesn't have any meaning outside of the
totally fictitious Pokemon universe. Just make something up like that, like
"Glork Zonker Pro".

~~~
deif
I wanted to release a completely separate app, appropriately named for victims
of domestic abuse using a simple 2048 game with hidden dead man switch
functionality. For 3 months going back and forth with Apple they told me the
app was spam because it mimiced partial functionality of the existing app on
the app store that is appropriately named for a completely different target
audience (ones where dead man switch is completely relevant).

Apple would only approve the app if I integrated it into the existing app but
not with the 2048 game because the name wouldn't match the functionality and a
dead man switch app called 2048 doesn't make sense for the majority of users.
You seem to be missing the fact that this app already exists with a current
set of users already. Calling it Glorp Zonker Pro is not exactly relevant to
them.

~~~
DonHopkins
I still don't understand why the name matters, since you say the abuse shelter
or support group would be the ones who recommend installing the app to the
victim, and presumably they didn't find out about it by searching the app
store for fun sounding games.

~~~
deif
That's correct, they found me by searching for dead man switches.

~~~
DonHopkins
I think you're going to have to market this through other channels, pushing
the message out to people who would want to use and distribute it, instead of
assuming that many people will think that there's a category of mobile
software called "dead man's switch" and go searching for it. It's not obvious
how "dead man's switch" had any connection with domestic abuse. It sounds more
like a really ineffective health app.

~~~
__s
This is Product B. Product A is deadman's switch. It is appropriately named
for the target audience of Product A. Apple won't allow Product B on grounds
that it's spamming variants of Product A. So he's forced to create Product B
as an offshoot of Product A unless he's going to get rid of Product A to have
the desired Product B

tl;dr Apple is forcing this unfortuate circumstance

~~~
mizunooto
As you may know, there is an app called Bright Sky which offers help to
victims of abuse but that can be disguised as a weather app. From the reviews
I’m not sure they have fully solved the ‘duplicitous’ aspect (it is available
under Education). However something of this nature is very important so I wish
all the devs. luck. As one further point, there must be people trapped in an
abusive relationship who aren’t aware; i.e. that they have been manipulated
into believing it is their fault and that nothing bad is being done to them.
(I know there are such people from experience). I don’t feel I have said
anything particularly useful but I thought it might set someone thinking.

~~~
__s
Wasn't aware, good to know there's more options, ideally there'd be a lot of
different options to keep this functionality in some obscurity

What you described is called gaslighting

------
woliveirajr
Seems a nice option but as it happens with any other security-through-
obscurity it made me wonder if the abuser reaction wouldn't be a bit harsh if
it is discovered.

Wouldn't it be better if the functionality is not just hidden but also
includes plausible deniability? Like creating one hidden screen that is
accessed when you try to guess the word using just one specific setupable
word, and showing another fake / useless screen when every other word is typed
?

~~~
deif
For sure, but any app store listing would give that away so that kind of
obscurity only gets you so far.

Apple are extremely restrictive on how you present your apps, so it will
always be obvious what the app is from the listing (which is why I
specifically had to use hang man, as the name of the app has to match the
general functionality). I couldn't even release a separate app with the same
functionality but completely reskinned as they classed it as spam. So I had a
problem of only having 1 app and providing functionality to two different sets
of users. One set only wants the dead man switch functionality and an initial
screen that hides the app is useless to them, and the other set only wants the
hidden functionality.

If they were less rigorous in applying their rules then a more secure app
could be made and I'm always open to suggestions. This was actually made in
conjunction with liasing with a US charity for domestic abuse as it was a
feature they specifically asked for.

~~~
Der_Einzige
Can we start to accuse apple of being complacent in domestic abuse then? I'm
only mostly joking

Apple products are used at a far higher proportion among women (and the vast
majority of domestic abuse victims are women) than Android products are and
the locked down nature of the platform means that attempts to fight this with
innovative apps masquerading as other apps (as the author has indicated that
they want to do) breaks their TOS and is banned by the platform.

Feminists need to start sounding the alarm right now and pushing women towards
open platforms which give them a chance to fight against their abusers.

~~~
gowld
Maybe it's better to have an OS that prevents spyware apps. If the victim
isn't in control of their phone, do you want the abuser to have free reign on
it?

What people need is a hidden extra phone, not a hidden extra app.

------
ggambetta
Maybe the words "dead man" in the name of a service about domestic abuse is
not _such_ a great idea :(

It's a well known technical term for us, but probably not so much for the
general public, so this could be easily misinterpreted.

~~~
__s
Anyone who's used a lawn mower should know what it is

~~~
ntucker
I think anyone who's used a lawnmower knows the _concept_ but not necessarily
the name.

~~~
gowld
And most people aren't electric lawnmower users anyway.

~~~
zrobotics
All powered lawnmowers have these switches. Push types have the spring loaded
lever on the handle that shuts the engine off when released, and riding mowers
shut down when there isn't weight on the seat. This isn't exclusive to
electric mowers at all.

------
jenkstom
As someone who was in an abusive relationship for decades, and my girlfriend
is getting out of an even more abusive relationship, there really should be
more resources for this. Or maybe there are and there just needs to be a
better way to communicate with the people who need this sort of thing.

~~~
deif
Yep, it wasn't until I was contacted by an owner of a charity that handled
cases of domestic abuse that I even knew it was even needed. Initially this
was a hobby project I did in my spare time for when I went travelling and it's
grown from there.

More visibility is definitely key, and charities are already stretched so it's
not like they have the resources to get this kind of thing done for them. I've
been reaching out to various charities to open a channel of communication to
let them know that this is available for them.

~~~
ntucker
For what it's worth, I knew immediately what this was for but read your entire
page looking for some kind of explicit confirmation and/or clear description
of the use cases. The info given almost seems intentionally coy, as if you're
even trying to maintain plausible deniability on the website.

~~~
gowld
That's the problem with marketing secret stuff. The stuff only works if no one
else knows what it is, so how you spread awareness to thousands of intended
recipients but not others, using a public website?

------
andybak
> At first we tried to release a separate app to keep the target audience
> separate but it turned out to be against Apple's developer rules that two
> apps could not be released with the same functionality, so we had to
> compromise and include everything in one app and try to lower the risk for
> vulnerable users as much as possible

Or in a sane world talk to a human being who has the authority to understand
that the rule is inappropriate in this case and allow you take the safer
option.

How can something as important as this not get escalated inside Apple?

~~~
deif
Yep, you wouldn't believe how many escalations and people I phoned and got
nowhere. Even an email to Tim got me nowhere. After 3 months I decided that
something was better than nothing.

------
s_r_n
This is a great cause, but it would probably be a good idea to explain
somewhere on the website what exactly a dead man switch is and how it can be
useful for domestic violence victims. The marketing seems a little too
technical for the general public as it is.

------
Dicey84
Coming from a background in Law Enforcement (Australia) and dealing daily with
Domestic Violence, this is a great idea.

Does need a polish (few bugs - can't delete switches / change reporting time?)
and yes, potentially a 'cover story change' (build a simple period tracker for
the female audience?)

I know there are a few private and government organisations over here trying
to battle this problem, with the use of technology.

This would be a good addition to the options available.

~~~
treis
I see variations on the concept of the OP in different forms like a codeword
drink at a bar. Is there any evidence out there that they work?

------
Grustaf
It doesn’t sound like this is a dead man switch, sounds more like a panic
button?

~~~
happytoexplain
Did you read the beginning? This is an extension to an existing dead man
switch app whose only purpose is to hide the fact that it's a dead man switch.
The underlying app is indeed a dead man switch.

~~~
Grustaf
I read the text in the link, but I can’t figure what it is a dead mans switch
_for_?

~~~
fudged71
It seems the web service will automatically contact whoever you have set up to
be contacted, if you don't take action on the notifications from the app

~~~
Grustaf
Aha ok I see. But then I don’t see how it could be two apps, what would the
app without the game do?

~~~
c22
It just requires you to take some action on a recurring basis. Someone who is
not trying to hide that they have a deadman switch on their phone doesn't need
a game, they just need a button they can push to indicate that they are still
alive.

~~~
Grustaf
Ok I thought the hiding was the point, but maybe there’s a use case.

------
calebm
I've thought about building a dead man's switch product before, but I realized
the immense commitment that such a product entails. It must continue to
function for a very long time, and if it fails to function, very important
messages would be lost. So, I hope you're in this for the long haul.

------
dot1x
My problem with any "Dead man switch" is the fact that none of these services
seem to survive.

Also, can you please write somewhere on the website what's your privacy
policy? Is everything encrypted? if so, with what?

By it's nature this kind of service will hold very sensitive information.

~~~
deif
The privacy policy can be found fixed to the bottom of the website on every
page (next to the copyright notice).

As with any service you should assume that nothing is encrypted (even though
it is) and follow other articles that I've written about how to securely
maintain private information when using third party services.

~~~
dot1x
So in short, the answer is "no".

I don't see why anybody would ever use your unsecure service or even pay for
it.

~~~
deif
The answer is no to which question? I'd appreciate some benefit of the doubt
since you don't know anything about the service and you don't seem to have
read any of the associated documentation.

------
kleton
Very timely.

> uncouplings surged in March as husbands and wives began emerging from weeks
> of government-mandated lockdowns intended to stop the spread of the novel
> coronavirus. Incidents of domestic violence also multiplied.

[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-31/divorces-...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-31/divorces-
spike-in-china-after-coronavirus-quarantines)

------
ape4
Something physical would be interesting. Putting on the pink lipstick triggers
the alarm. Because, of course, an abusive partner may take away the phone.

~~~
luckylion
> Because, of course, an abusive partner may take away the phone.

That's the point of the app, isn't it? If you don't use the App for some
amount of time, the alarm gets triggered.

------
lvs
Does this require a remote service to function, or is it stand-alone? If the
former, what happens if that remote service goes down?

~~~
deif
Yep, it runs on AWS servers due to the fact that the user's device might be
destroyed and it has file hosting, automated calls and all that jazz happening
which would not be possible if it was stand-alone.

In terms of redundancy and failover, barring a total region blackout on the
AWS end, the remote service will continue to function forever due to the way
I've set up the infrastructure. If I die then the service will simply be
handed over to someone else.

------
gowld
I can't imagine trusting the mindset of a dev who builds a sensitive personal
safety app for (mostly) women if they calls it "dead man tracker".

~~~
deif
Sorry but this was not the original target audience, this is merely a
requested feature direct from a domestic abuse charity that wanted to use the
app for their victims.

Thank you for your concern though.

------
mnw21cam
"We're sorry but dead man tracker doesn't work properly without JavaScript
enabled. Please enable it to continue."

Yeah fine, but perhaps some explanation of what I would be seeing if I did
that would be appreciated. If you want me to enable Javascript, you should at
least tell me what you're going to do with that.

If you make a web site with functionality that requires Javascript, and
there's no other way, that's fine. But you should still leave the bits that
don't need Javascript up, so we can see what we are missing.

~~~
cassiet
This isn’t mine, but the number of my users with js turned off isn’t worth the
effort. You guys make a lot of noise, but not a lot of traffic.

~~~
nitrogen
Your analytics are probably blocked by anyone who has JS off so your traffic
numbers are skewed.

~~~
cassiet
They aren’t.

~~~
nitrogen
How would you know?

~~~
cassiet
I own the hardware.

