
NSA blows its own top secret program in order to propagandize - danielsiders
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/03/31/nsa-worlds-blows-top-secret-program/
======
mcphilip
There are some real gems in that LAT piece that Greenwald labels as
propaganda[1]:

>What the Church and Pike committees found" nearly 40 years ago was "that
people were doing things that were wrong. That's not happening here,"
Alexander said.

The particular definition of wrong used by Alexander would be interesting to
know.

>"When you're the good guy and you're on the side of truth and democracy and
the American way, anything that is an impediment to you is naturally bad and
needs to be overcome, even if it's the law," German said.

Apparently the ability to have private communication digitally is one such
annoying impediment.

>Now, Russian ground commanders and Al Qaeda cell leaders are on notice that
the NSA is nearly everywhere.

Those evil Russian ground commanders... One tip for the author of this piece:
Snowden leaks enabling child pornographers to avoid surveillance would be a
much more effective appeal to emotion than a topical example like renewed
fears of Russian aggression that risk fading from the zeitgeist soon!

[1][http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-alexander-
nsa-20140331,0...](http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-alexander-
nsa-20140331,0,3369988,full.story#vcomment)

~~~
happyscrappy
You could hardly dream up a better way to quash Europe's anger at the NSA's
spying than Russia taking back pieces of the Soviet empire, surreal.

~~~
Perdition
I have been joking with my friends that Obama called up Putin and told him to
put on a side-show.

~~~
sitkack
No joke. We couldn't have asked for anything better than this. Pure Gold!

------
minimax
_John “Chris” Inglis just revealed to the world that the NSA
was–is?–intercepting every single email, text message, and phone-location
signal in real time for the entire country of Iraq. Obviously, the fact that
the NSA has this capability, and used it, is Top Secret. What authority did
Chris Inglis have to disclose this?_

This capability in Iraq had already been publicly disclosed. It's detailed in
Bob Woodward's 2011 book, "Obama's Wars". Search for "RTRG" in the excerpt.†
It isn't clear who disclosed the program to Woodward, but I think it's pretty
clear they wanted the capability to counter the (very real) IED threat in
Iraq. It actually sounds pretty reasonable and not so Orwellian in that
context.

† [http://books.simonandschuster.com/Obamas-Wars/Bob-
Woodward/9...](http://books.simonandschuster.com/Obamas-Wars/Bob-
Woodward/9781439172506/excerpt)

~~~
pekk
It doesn't sound so reasonable if you are Iraqi, particularly if like most
Iraqis you already regarded the presence of the Americans as a colonialist
occupation.

------
mef
The thrust of this article seems to hinge on the apparent contradiction of
Gen. Keith Alexander saying that Snowden leaks jeopardize lives while at the
same time the published revelation (sourced from the NSA) that there exists
secret NSA operation to monitor communications in Iraq.

It seems that this mischaracterizes what Gen. Alexander says in the linked
article.

In that article he says that there is a possibility that some of the
information Snowden may or may not have leaked to the press (and which might
be published in the future) could cost people their lives. Not that any secret
information about NSA operations will cost people their lives. So, a bit
cynical perhaps as he's basically saying only the NSA can make the judgement
call about what information is "safe" to leak (thus avoiding accountability,)
but this isn't really a contradiction.

A larger issue one might take with Alexander's words is that Snowden only sent
the information to media organizations; it's up to them what and how much to
publish. The NSA could attempt to protect lives that are at stake by offering
feedback to these news organizations about Snowden leak stories before they're
published to let them know which specific parts, if published, might endanger
lives.

~~~
glesica
No, you missed the point. The information in the LAT article (sourced, on-the-
record from NSA) was _literally_ the same information NSA had apparently asked
the Washington Post to redact just days earlier, "national security" being the
justification. That was the point.

------
digitalengineer
Is PSYOP illegal against your own citizens? It sure sounds like that…

 _Psychological operations (PSYOP) are planned operations to convey selected
information and indicators to audiences to influence their emotions, motives,
objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of governments,
organizations, groups, and individuals.

The purpose of psychological operations is to induce or reinforce behavior
favorable to US objectives. They are an important part of the range of
diplomatic, informational, military, and economic activities available to the
US. They can be utilized during both peacetime and conflict._

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_Operations_(Unite...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_Operations_\(United_States\))

~~~
intslack
FVEY PSYOP (previously dismissed as tinfoilhattery when reported in places
like The Guardian[1] or elsewhere over the years) has been revealed in The
Incercept's reporting on Snowden documents[2].

As for legality, the important parts of Smith-Mundt were repealed several
years ago. But you should _totally trust them_ , PSYOP would never be carried
out on their own populations, in social media or media in general.

[http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB177/](http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB177/)
is a good read, for those interested.

As is a history on Smith-Mundt:
[http://mountainrunner.us/2012/02/history_of_smith-
mundt/](http://mountainrunner.us/2012/02/history_of_smith-mundt/)

[1] [http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-
ope...](http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-
social-networks)

[2] [https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-
manipula...](https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-
manipulation/)

------
graedus
Interesting move. Presumably, it's preferable to the NSA to let everyone know
MYSTIC was implemented in Iraq, rather than deal with the (further) increased
mistrust that might arise from suspicions that it was used on e.g. some
European ally.

Iraq and Afghanistan were my top guesses.

~~~
Zigurd
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_hangout](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_hangout)

 _PRESIDENT: You think, you think we want to, want to go this route now? And
the--let it hang out, so to speak?_

 _DEAN: Well, it 's, it isn't really that--_

 _HALDEMAN: It 's a limited hang out._

 _DEAN: It 's a limited hang out._

 _EHRLICHMAN: It 's a modified limited hang out._

 _PRESIDENT: Well, it 's only the questions of the thing hanging out publicly
or privately._

Cute. It's like those kids discovering music from the '70s.

------
orthecreedence
I've held the theory for a while that drone strikes create more terrorists
than they kill (and that the US govt knows this). Nice to see others are
observing the same.

------
dTal
Same story, different day, only last time they tried to pin their own leak on
Snowden:

[http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/23/uk-
gove...](http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/23/uk-government-
independent-military-base)

------
jhdkjqhkjqhwk
> make available every .. phone-location signal in real time

And yet targetted strikes intended to take out key military targets based on
high-quality intelligence still took out hospitals and schools. Hmm.

------
eternalban
What is the proof that Snowden is not in fact a means to disclosing what the
State felt the plebs needed to know about the communication systems?

~~~
jessaustin
Do these people _seem_ that smart?

To be fair, if they were that smart, they might choose not to seem so. But
there is no end to that type of thinking...

~~~
eternalban
> "smart"

They have a few decades of computational (game theoretic) modeling and decades
of (grant supported) academic research into individual and collective behavior
behind them.

> ~rabbit hole

Apply that well worn razor. What information has actually been disclosed?
Extra extra! "states spy on states"; "government reads your mail"; "technology
firms are in bed with the military-industrial complex"; ...

What you need to ask yourself is whether you are now more inclinded to be
guarded in your conversations with your fellow citizens and are self-
censoring.

