
Chemists discover water microdroplets spontaneously produce hydrogen peroxide - wglb
https://phys.org/news/2019-08-chemists-microdroplets-spontaneously-hydrogen-peroxide.html
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jakeogh
Wow. Wonderful stuff. >1ppm is suprising! Dr. Cooks group is working on
microdroplet catalyzed reactions as well. Reactions happen magnitudes of order
faster in these conditions:
[https://cen.acs.org/articles/95/i46/Microdroplets-rev-
chemic...](https://cen.acs.org/articles/95/i46/Microdroplets-rev-chemical-
reactions.html)
[https://aston.chem.purdue.edu/](https://aston.chem.purdue.edu/)

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mogadsheu
I wonder if this could be a nontrivial, alternate explanation for the erosion
of materials in turbulent flows (ship propellers are a great example).

If so, it could change the way people design and manufacture these components.

There would be implications in the maritime and hydrocarbon industries, as
well as in hydro power.

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hinkley
It’s been a long time since this has made headlines. Last time it was
microcavitation. Has that been debunked?

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mogadsheu
Great point. What I’m suggesting is that, based on the article, perhaps
there’s an alternate or (more likely) supplemental explanation to
microcavitation.

Maybe the baby bubbles bursting apply both exert a physical and a chemical
(per the article’s discovery) effect on the substrate. If nontrivial,
applying/developing different coatings that are more resistant to h2o2 could
be useful in real world applications.

I really don’t know, but it’d be a logical next step for applied research!

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patrec
Wouldn't someone have noticed the chemical corrosion – even if not
specifically looking for it?

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cwkoss
I wonder what peak concentration can be reached by cycling pure water through
a micro-sprayer. I'd be skeptical if this could make rocket fuel, but it would
be extremely cool if it could.

Turning ice asteroids into usable fuel would make space much more accessible.

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mehrdadn
Rocket fuel... I assume you mean hydrazine? You need more than just
water/hydrogen peroxide for that right? (Like ammonia?)

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detaro
concentrated hydrogen peroxide, if exposed to a catalyst splitting it up
again, makes viable a viable thrust source for rockets.

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blacksqr
Right, spray it through a platinum screen, and oxygen gas is liberated.

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avmich
Silver screen would work too. Iron oxide would work... Many other substances
would catalyze peroxide with various degrees of efficiency.

~~~
liability
I'm not sure what modern peroxide rockets use, but the steam generator in the
V2 used sodium or potassium permanganate.

~~~
magicalhippo
For an in-depth and interesting explanation of how that works, I enjoyed this
video:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgiMu8A3pi0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgiMu8A3pi0)

Includes a demonstration of the potassium permanganate and hydrogen peroxide
at around the 52 minute mark.

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jpfed
Maybe this is a dumb thing to ask, but would these microdroplets also evolve
H2 gas then?

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eloff
I think you must be right, the hydrogen doesn't vanish. So this could be a way
to produce H2 has without electrolysis.

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bcaa7f3a8bbc
I guess you'd get little H2 out of it while pumping the water all the time, it
would be less energy-efficient than electrolysis.

~~~
Kuinox
Who need pump when the rain does that for you.

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velox_io
This sounds similar to Fleischmann–Pons 'Cold fusion' in 89 [0] (Could be
related as the 30th anniversary?). It would be great if we could easily spit
water to hydrogen and oxygen (unlimited clean fuel), but it comes down to
those pesky chemical bonds, it takes a LOT of effort (energy) to pull them
apart.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion)
Hopefully, someone can find a good video covering it.

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Terr_
Makes me think of Hawking Radiation: Something pinging into existence at a
small scale due to the hidden fizziness of the universe.

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GarrisonPrime
Um...hasn't this been known for at least a century? I'm confused.

~~~
saalweachter
Are you confusing H2O2 with the OH- and H3O+ ions found at a ~10^-7
concentration in water?

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namirez
This is fascinating. Does it mean vaping, or more generally inhaling pure
water vapor, can be unsafe?

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ggggtez
That is not what it implies at all.

It might be true anyway, but this is not the cause.

~~~
namirez
Could you elaborate on it please? It seems vapes create particles of
comparable size to what is reported here. Also inhaling H2O2 can be toxic
beyond a certain concentration. But I'm not sure what is the concentration
here. The last paragraph is interesting though:

> _Zare said, and it could lead to simpler ways to disinfect surfaces—simply
> spraying water microdroplets on a table or floor might be enough to clean
> it._

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dsfyu404ed
It means:

"I have to stretch the possible immediate practical applications of my
research in order to better secure interest/funding/publicity, it's just part
of the job"

Pretty much every every article like this has a couple sentences on practical
applications that sound revolutionary. It's just part of how things are done
and most of them will never come to fruition. Don't take it too seriously
unless they have a proof of concept.

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jcims
Would this include nebulizer output? I wonder if it has an antiseptic effect.

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flurdy
Two men walk into a bar.

One man orders H2O.

The other says: "I'll have H2O too".

The second man dies.

~~~
JackFr
Two scientists walk into a bar. "I'll have H2O," says the 1st. "I'll have H2O,
too," says the 2nd. Bartender gives them water because he is able to
distinguish the boundary tones that dictate the grammatical function of
homonyms in coda position, as well as pragmatic context.

[https://twitter.com/dianeturnshek/status/939155156645699584?...](https://twitter.com/dianeturnshek/status/939155156645699584?s=21)

~~~
lordgrenville
As she notes in the thread, the original author appears to be here:
[https://notallwugs.tumblr.com/post/93075748270/two-
scientist...](https://notallwugs.tumblr.com/post/93075748270/two-scientists-
walk-into-a-bar-ill-have-an)

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makotech222
I Thought this was already known? I remember hearing about this in my
Undergrad physics classes. At any time in liquid water, there are hydrogen
bonds constantly breaking and rejoining between H-O, H2O, and H2O2.

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shawnz
Do you mean OH, H2O and H3O?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydronium#Determination_of_pH](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydronium#Determination_of_pH)

~~~
makotech222
Heh, that's probably it. Thanks for the reminder.

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delfinom
>simply spraying water microdroplets on a table or floor might be enough to
clean it.

$5 the next homeopathic "fad" is going to be water sprayers that cure ebola.

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briantakita
Dr. Gerald Pollack has studied the "fourth phase" of water, which are sheets
of H1O1. Water in this phase is electrically negative and forms the surface of
bubbles/droplets, vesticules in cells, clouds, plasma in blood, & drives
movement of water in plants. This book explains a number of phenomena with
models backed by experiment.

[https://www.amazon.com/Fourth-Phase-Water-Beyond-
Liquid/dp/0...](https://www.amazon.com/Fourth-Phase-Water-Beyond-
Liquid/dp/0962689548)

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selimthegrim
[http://moreisdifferent.com/2015/11/19/debunking-exclusion-
zo...](http://moreisdifferent.com/2015/11/19/debunking-exclusion-zone-water/)

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jakeogh
Useful list of papers. The effect appears to be real. Over-sure blogger admits
it at the end.

