
Journalists Trespass, Assault Tesla Employees at the Gigafactory - adanto6840
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/journalists-trespass-assault-tesla-employees-gigafactory
======
MBCook
Saw the headline assumed that it was an overstatement and that reading the
article would show that someone just give someone else a little shove or
something. After all this is on Teslas website, so you'd expect them to
portray the situation the way they want it to be seen.

Turns out the title isn't sensational, it probably should be something like
"newspaper employees attempt to run over Tesla security guards". They actually
UNDERPLAYED it.

Did this make any kind of national news? Seems like a pretty good store that
you'd expect the media to be repeating.

Wow.

~~~
Steko
I think Tesla's entire account sounded like the truth washed with as much bias
and bullshit as their legal department could get away with. I'm not trying to
excuse the actions of the RGJ employees here, they should be prosecuted
appropriately for both crimes.

> As the Tesla employee attempted to record the license plate number on the
> rear bumper, the driver put it in reverse and accelerated into the Tesla
> employee

I'd suggest it's more likely that reversing out was required to leave and the
security officer moved behind primarily to stop them from leaving. Again it's
still illegal to drive over human beings but it can also be a nearly
simultaneous thing not necessarily a premeditated and psychotic choice on the
part of the driver.

> As the RGJ employees fled the scene, their Jeep struck the ATV that carried
> the two safety managers.

Wait I thought he was on the ground bleeding out from his multiple 2-3"
lacerations? Is it also possible that the ATV struck the jeep or drove in
front on the jeep and caused the collision because the security wanted to
detain them? Perhaps the ATV catching up to a fleeing jeep was not engaging in
the safest behavior?

> When one of the safety managers dismounted the ATV and approached the Jeep,
> the driver of the Jeep accelerated into him, striking him in the waist.

I'm sorry this reminds me too much of dozens of police reports of "driver
tried to run over officer, officer forced to use his gun" which is sometimes
true but it far too many cases turns out to be complete bullshit.

Again I don't want to apologize for the illegal and dangerous actions of the
RGJ employees here but (1) this isn't the whole story and (2) I think it's
absolutely ridiculous that Tesla has their secur-- err "safety" staff heading
people off at the pass in ATV's and risking their lives over some illegal
photos. It's also possible that my skepticism is misplaced and Tesla is not
exaggerating here and RGJ employees engaged in exactly the behavior described.

~~~
TeMPOraL
>> _As the RGJ employees fled the scene, their Jeep struck the ATV that
carried the two safety managers._

> _Wait I thought he was on the ground bleeding out from his multiple 2-3 "
> lacerations?_

How about: one officer down, other inside the ATV which was parked, maybe or
maybe not blocking off the jeep?

> _I 'm sorry this reminds me too much of dozens of police reports of "driver
> tried to run over officer, officer forced to use his gun"._

Except here it's the officers who got hurt. Damage was pretty one-directional.

I guess I trust Tesla on this one so far - they have pretty much a perfect
record of being honest-to-God and fair, which is quite unusual as companies
go. Definitely _not_ trusting the journalists though. Ultimately, we'll see
how this plays out in court.

Also, I wonder what Elon has to say about it. He also has a track record of
being honest, so this would be a good data point.

~~~
Steko
> I guess I trust Tesla on this one so far -

Tesla is a party to the incident and has a reason to spin it as far in their
favor as possible. Their account also completely omits any mention of the
window of the jeep being broken with a rock and the driver's side seat belt
being severed so idk why we should just swallow their account on it's face.

How about trusting a source that doesn't have a dog in the race? Here's ars
technica's writeup:

[http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/10/tesla-says-
reno-j...](http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/10/tesla-says-reno-
journalist-struck-security-guards-on-gigafactory-grounds/)

You can read that and see it's a lot more neutral than Tesla's blog post. It
reports tesla's side and also info from RGJ's article and supplements that
with comments from the sheriff.

> they have pretty much a perfect record of being honest-to-God and fair

The hero worship is real.

~~~
TeMPOraL
> _Tesla is a party to the incident and has a reason to spin it as far in
> their favor as possible._

They have, but the reason many people, myself included, trust them is that
they _didn 't follow such reasons in the past_. Honesty is being accurate even
if you have a reason to spin.

> _Their account also completely omits any mention of the window of the jeep
> being broken with a rock and the driver 's side seat belt being severed so
> idk why we should just swallow their account on it's face._

That's why I say we'll see how it plays out in court. Facts will (hopefully)
be uncovered. I'm not assuming Tesla is definitely 100% right; this may be the
case when they start bullshitting like every other company. I'm only trusting
they're honest here given that they've been honest before, _which is not
industry-standard practice_.

> _The hero worship is real._

It's not hero worship, it's trusting those who've proven themselves
trustworthy.

~~~
Steko
> it's trusting those who've proven themselves trustworthy.

Tesla has a long history of exaggeration and broken promises and describing
them as having a 'perfect record of being honest-to-God' borders on the
farcial.

[http://jalopnik.com/what-will-tesla-and-elon-musk-over-
promi...](http://jalopnik.com/what-will-tesla-and-elon-musk-over-promise-
next-1672402636)

------
mschuster91
Okay, I understand "investigative journalism", but a) that's not the
definition and b) the driver should face an attempted murder charge.

Knowingly running someone over with a vehicle is nothing less.

~~~
thaumasiotes
Based on the text of the article:

> Once the Sheriff’s Department arrived on the scene, they arrested one of the
> RGJ employees for two counts of felony assault with a deadly weapon

I'd have to say the police are right and you're wrong. Assault with a deadly
weapon seems much more appropriate than attempted murder. Nobody died, there
was no intention to kill anybody, and there was no action taken that was
particularly likely to cause death. "Deadly weapon" covers it.

~~~
CamperBob2
How exactly is aiming a car at someone and hitting the gas any different from
aiming a gun at them and pulling the trigger?

~~~
gkoberger
Cars have many uses, such as getting away. Guns have only one use.

~~~
CamperBob2
From the victim's point of view, that's a distinction without a difference.

~~~
TeMPOraL
The situation has probably played itself very quickly and was full of split-
second decisions. The journalists may had no intention to actually run anyone
over; maybe they were trying to sneak between that ATV and a guard standing,
and they miscalculated the turn. After they hit the first guy this whole thing
probably turned into "Oh shit shit shit! What have we done?" situation; people
without training tend to lose any rational thinking capabilities in those.

------
ps4fanboy
[http://www.rgj.com/story/news/2015/10/09/rgj-photographer-
ar...](http://www.rgj.com/story/news/2015/10/09/rgj-photographer-arrested-
after-altercation-withtesla-security-guards/73693850/)

~~~
phy6
"Andy Barron was booked on a charge of battery" HAH

------
Others
Wow, what stupid/terrible thing to do. I can't believe someone would seriously
think that assaulting Tesla's employees is a good strategy to escape being
prosecuted...

------
JustSomeNobody
Just wondering if those employees will be showcased on www.rgj.Com's local
crime mugshot.

~~~
vermontdevil
Or will they go through the perp walk that the media loves to deploy on
others?

------
bcook
The act is closer to that of an "asshole", rather than a journalist.

Calls 'em like I sees 'em.

~~~
iLoch
Are you still a journalist if you don't have a job? Because these guys
shouldn't get to keep their job.

~~~
thoman23
Their job is really the least of their worries now.

------
beefsack
This is one side of the story, don't forget that.

------
ctdonath
Neoluddites?

------
sandworm101
This is not unusual. Media scrums can be more mosh pit than journalism. There
are always a few who act aggressively and have trouble turning that off once
things get violent.

But I wouldn't absolve tesla. A cop would have been trained not to stand
directly behind such a vehicle. Someone will surely look into the actions of
these security guards to see if they perhaps went above their duties, or
whether deploying security guards to deal with such a vehicle is ever
appropriate. There are situations where non-cops are expected to stand aside.

~~~
mschuster91
> But I wouldn't absolve tesla. A cop would have been trained not to stand
> directly behind such a vehicle.

Nothing, absolutely nothing, allows you to knowingly drive over someone with a
vehicle. Except if the other guy has a gun drawn and pointed on you.

~~~
sandworm101
Not what I was talking about. There are several issues, whether these
trespassers committed a crime is just one. This is an on-the-job injury of an
employee. Whether anything went wrong on the employer/employee side to
contribute to this is a totally different evaluation. Whether these guards had
the authority to seize the vehicle is another. The insurance companies that
have to pay for the medical care will look into these questions. Note that
Tesla is not describing these employees as heroes. Tesla (or whatever company
trains/deploys these guards) might be on the hook for substantial costs.

No doubt this incident will result in new training and/or a serious rethink of
how security guards are deployed in such situations.

~~~
thoman23
Dude, the Tesla employees just asked them to wait for the sheriff to arrive.
It's not like they jumped on the hood of the car. Writing down the license
plate number should not get you run over.

~~~
cassoulet26
We don't know the situation of the vehicle. Maybe backing up was the only
reasonable way to escape from what the journalist thought was a dangerous
situation. No Idea if this is true, just playing devils advocate in the
interest of preventing a digital lynch mob.

~~~
thoman23
Sorry, I can appreciate some devil's advocacy, but I'm just not buying it
here. Assuming the Tesla employee was unarmed (which I think is a safe
assumption), then there's nothing potentially dangerous enough to justify
running someone over rather than wait the few minutes for law enforcement to
arrive. Even if you think you are being falsely imprisoned, I don't think you
are justified in running someone over rather than wait a few minutes for law
enforcement if you are not in immediate danger.

~~~
sandworm101
You are assuming that the 'running someone over' was deliberate. We don't have
enough information for such determinations. It may have been accidental, or
more likely criminally negligent, but we shouldn't assume deliberate attack
without all the facts.

~~~
Natsu
We do have them hitting two different people on two different occasions.
That's not iron-clad by any means, but it is evidence that weighs against the
accident theory.

One detail is that Tesla alleges that they 'accelerated' in reverse. This is
completely abnormal and if it can be corroborated by the physical evidence, it
will be very troublesome for the driver.

Further, I have to believe that Tesla has no shortage of people who know about
accident reconstruction and who can determine the idle speed & mass of the
jeep and compare that with the force needed to cause skid marks or to have
knocked the employee whatever distance. If they were to do that, it would be
very interesting because we all know just how skilled their engineers are,
from Elon on down.

