
What the North Korean internet really looks like - Sami_Lehtinen
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37426725
======
vocatus_gate
I briefly managed to access their dated-looking Facebook clone, "Friend," and
was attempting to register for an account when apparently it either went down
due to traffic from the leak or they noticed the external access and blocked
it. I checked from various different IP's (AWS, home, work, other proxies) and
suddenly none could access it. Felt strange to get a brief glimpse into some
of their internal web presence.

In case it's still down here's a screenshot just prior to losing access:
[http://i.imgur.com/dAeuozr.png](http://i.imgur.com/dAeuozr.png)

~~~
pawadu
Well, at least its not full of ads :)

~~~
mhurron
Ads or oppressive government regime

Tough call.

~~~
WaxProlix
Some would say omnipresent ads are a symptom of a different kind of oppressive
regime, maybe? At a minimum, they don't seem to be diametrically opposed or
anything.

~~~
djschnei
Who would say that? lol, that is absurd. Sounds like someone has been reading
some Marxist Humanism.

They do seem drastically opposed; in a system that disregards personal
property rights, you can't use your property to better your and your
customer's lives by offering services or products to them that you both deem
mutually beneficial. In a system without property rights, the 'ads' are called
government propaganda.

~~~
realusername
Profitability does not necessarily correlate with better life for customers,
it all depends specifically on the subject.

Averts are entirely set up from the point of view of businesses, people can
live better without ads, businesses need them because another competing
business is also doing advertisement, it's just an arms race. Advertising and
its growth is a cancer in our society, it destroy society values just for a
quick buck and provides zero value to our society. I can't wait to see that
die. I can't believe some of the smartest people we have out there spend all
their lives making people click on ads, this is totally insane.

Advertising is just oppression by private companies, I don't see any
difference with government ads. Except that because there is a profit in
private advertising, it's even more invasive and everywhere.

~~~
jakebasile
> Advertising is just oppression by private companies, I don't see any
> difference with government ads.

You see no difference between ads that ask you to buy something and a
government that uses torture, murder, mind control, propaganda, and fear to
carry out the destruction of free will of its citizens?

Ok.

> it's even more invasive and everywhere.

Yes, being sent to labor camps to work to death is just as invasive as having
Google know that I like video games.

~~~
realusername
Not all propaganda posters were about destructing free will, some of them were
also for improving the social status quo. Example: "I will be a chemist" \-
USRR, 1964 - [http://i.imgur.com/DTMN0MY.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/DTMN0MY.jpg).

And I don't compare labour camps with advertising.

I compare governments ads "work harder for your country" and private ads "you
look ugly, you should buy some of our makeup". Private ads are all about
destroying free will too, that's exactly their point.

~~~
djschnei
Until companies can walk around with guns or threaten you with imprisonment
for not paying their fees or "enjoying" their products, the two are nothing
alike. Advertising doesn't use physical force.

~~~
Frondo
Just responding to this dreary trope: if you don't pay taxes, under ordinary
circumstances, you won't be imprisoned. Your paycheck will be likely garnished
or some of your assets taken to cover your tax debt. For tax evasion to enter
the realm of "now you're going to jail" (like Wesley Snipes) you've got to do
a lot more than simply fail to write the gubmint a check.

~~~
djschnei
You just proved my point... that's force and coercion. "They don't shoot you,
they just steal or money!"

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Frondo
Whatever tax you owe isn't your money. It's the government's money, and by
refusing to pay it, you're stealing from the rest of us. That's the government
enforcing our property rights when it uses force to reclaim what's ours.

~~~
djschnei
Oh, so they have claim to a percentage of my labor? without my consent? That
sounds like something...

~~~
Frondo
Your parents/legal guardians consented for you when you were a minor and could
not make such an agreement.

When you reached the age of majority, you gave consent by continuing to live
here.

(And if you think consent requires words, and not merely actions, try
wordlessly walking out of a convenience store with a package of slim jims you
didn't pay for.)

~~~
djschnei
I find it endlessly amusing you're hypothetical for non-verbal consent is
literally theft.

However, I agree; taxation is necessary for government to exist. I'm also not
an anarchist. I see taxation as a necessary evil, but I refuse to not call it
what it is. Like the case with most (all) necessary evils, I consider it a
moral obligation to advocate for it's conservative application. So, sorry you
find it offensive that I want the government to steal less of your labor. I
hold no grudges towards people that would like to see their labor partitioned
towards public works to whatever extent they see fit, but I maintain coercion
is immoral.

Lastly, the "just move argument" is a real gem. "Don't like police brutality?
just move." Talk about letting your privilege show...

~~~
Frondo
Your hypothetical refusing to pay your tax is also theft; you are stealing
from the rest of us.

I'm glad you agree that taxation is necessary for government to exist. Some
day, I hope you'll come around to doing away with silly word games like "it's
theft". Because it isn't.

~~~
djschnei
If, as you say, I am merely being charged for services, what do I do If
services are being offered which I morally oppose and don't want to be part
of? I am still forced to (coerced) to pay for them (theft) regardless of my
usage. For example, I am vehemently opposed to our current handful of military
actions. I don't want my money going towards innocent loss of life or actions
that promote it. You're answer is to simply uproot my life and move?

What do you think would happen if we could allocate our tax dollars personally
however we see fit? With access to different public "services" being granted
accordingly?

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strictnein
Honestly, if you tried to write a fake story about Kim Jong Un visiting a
farm, how different would it be from this?

"Kim Jong Un Visits Farm No. 1116 Run by KPA Unit 810"

"Supreme Commander of the Korean People's Army Kim Jong Un, chairman of the
Workers' Party of Korea and chairman of the State Affairs Commission of the
DPRK, gave field guidance to Farm No. 1116 under KPA Unit 810."

[http://rodong.rep.kp./en/index.php?strPageID=SF01_02_01&news...](http://rodong.rep.kp./en/index.php?strPageID=SF01_02_01&newsID=2016-09-13-0001)

~~~
drzaiusapelord
North Korean dictator culture involves being an "instant expert" for pretty
much all industry. I don't know how well KJU does it, but his father would
show up at a workplace and start giving random advice. Everyone would applaud
his genius and take notes. Lots of face-saving smiles, photo ops, crying, etc
would follow. Then state media would report increased productivity in that
plant or farm.

Its incredible people have to live like this. Dictatorships are hell.

~~~
mason55
> _Dictatorships are hell._

Not necessarily, look at Singapore. A benevolent dictatorship can be the best
kind of government, the problem is finding the benevolent dictator.

~~~
drzaiusapelord
Well, I think you're being overly generous with Singapore's human rights
record, but even ignoring that, what happens when the dictator dies or hands
power to his sons or whatever? You have no mechanism for a sane transfer of
power nor do you get to vet the candidates.

Also, what if he's merely 60% benevolent, how do you fix the other 40%? For
example, corporal punishment continues to exist in Singapore. Why would a
benevolent leader allow that? Worse, what avenues do you have to change this?
You don't have any in dictatorship.

Heck, Singapore has the world's highest execution rate relative to its
population. It also executes drug dealers. Again, how can you change that in a
dictatorship? Who gets to decide what is "benevolent" here?

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bdrool
Soon it will be revealed that North Korea had actually saved up a bunch of
zero days and just pwned the machines of millions of curious people around the
world who loaded up these sites when they hit the news yesterday.

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13of40
Meanwhile, the American internet contains a whopping 1,715,757 domains as of
March 2016 [1].

I apologize for the sarcasm, but .kp isn't the extent of the North Korean
internet. For example, which of those sites do North Korean generals use to
check their email? None? So there's more internet somewhere?

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.us](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.us)

~~~
sqeaky
Why would they even have email?

They have a country of 50 million or so functional slaves. They could use
couriers for every and dodge the entire USA Signals Intelligence Effort. The
nominal cost of life over there is only slightly higher than email is over
here.

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dominotw
Side note: Lovers and Despot movies is releasing this friday online.

[http://www.magpictures.com/profile.aspx?id=86c0a9e9-0b60-4b3...](http://www.magpictures.com/profile.aspx?id=86c0a9e9-0b60-4b30-99d5-b5e352f6df33)

~~~
skandl
Thanks for that. Any other NK-related films you recommend that go beyond
surface shock value (e.g. Vice documentaries) or ignorant comedy (The
Interview)?

~~~
dominotw
Another really good one from this year. I highly recommend this.

Under the Sun
[http://www.icarusfilms.com/new2016/unsun.html](http://www.icarusfilms.com/new2016/unsun.html)

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meerita
I literally waited 10 mins to see a full rendered homepage.

