

Ask HN: Musicians? - lincolnq

What instrument(s) do you play, and what's your level of involvement?<p>The Jargon File's entry on music (http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/M/music.html) suggests that music is a "common extracurricular" among hackers. Is this still true?
======
antiform
My pet theory is that playing a musical instrument is less common a hobby
among programmers now than it was a generation ago, because now programming
tends to be associated with "Computer Science" as its own discipline, rather
than a subdiscipline of math.

Near the end of this interview
[<http://tex.loria.fr/historique/interviews/knuth-clb1993.html>], Don Knuth
says that one way CS graduate students have changed since the 70s is that they
are less interested in music:

"What changes have you seen in the students coming into the computer science
program over the years?"

" _Knuth_ : There is a very profound change that I can't account for. In the
70s, the majority of our students were very interested in music. The first
thing we'd ask them when they came in was 'What instrument do you play?' We
had lots of chamber groups and so on. Now almost none of the students are
interested in music. I don't know if it's because a different kind of people
are enrolling in computer science, or because it's true of all today's
students, or what. If you ask computer science students now what their hobby
is, the chances are most of them will say 'Bicycling'. I recently had one who
played a harmonica, but there were almost no musicians in the group."

~~~
cperciva
_My pet theory is that playing a musical instrument is less common a hobby
among programmers now than it was a generation ago, because now programming
tends to be associated with "Computer Science" as its own discipline, rather
than a subdiscipline of math._

I'd say you have that backwards. Mathematicians and Computer Scientists have
always been interested in music; but Programmers haven't. These days if you
look around a computer science department -- at least, if you look at the
students -- you'll be looking mostly at programmers, not at computer
scientists.

When I was in Oxford, I saw a mix of "people interested in computer science"
and "people interested in programming" -- and as far as I could tell, every
one of the CS people was interested in music, while not even one of the
programmers was.

------
ntoll
Regarding music and hacking. Personally, music theory and the compositional
techniques I learned as a student "feel" very similar to hacking: writing an
examination fugue in the style of J.S.Bach involves complex thinking and
problem solving within a (semi) formal system with an additional (and
essential) appreciation of conciseness, grace, style and aesthetic.

Also, hacking music is fun! When I was learning to program I wrote a little
app to solve species counterpoint problems with a genetic algorithm. Although
not always up to "human" results (especially fifth species counterpoint) the
"solutions" were always fun to listen to. ;-)

As for me: I'm a tuba player - a graduate of the Royal College of Music with
an academic (rather than performance based) undergraduate music degree. I also
play organ and piano. I still play regularly and was recently a soloist with a
local orchestra in a performance of the Vaughan William's concerto. Life
without music would be unbearable... :-/

~~~
Flemlord
You just brought back a pleasant memory. Back in my C64 days I wrote a program
that created Bach inventions. One of my few early hacker accomplishments that
impressed my non-techie parents.

For anybody who doesn't know what that is, here's Bach's most famous:

[http://video.aol.com/video-detail/js-bach-
invention-13-rendi...](http://video.aol.com/video-detail/js-bach-
invention-13-rendition-guitar-a-solo-duet/118949678)

(Originally written for the harpsichord I believe.)

------
thomasfl
I am the lead singer in a Kiss tribute band. Everybody with low self esteem
should try singing in a metal band.

We don't use guitars, but have good tuba and violin players. I also play
keyboard: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7DgpSddLiU>

------
GavinB
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1phz4-G1tc>

I wrote the music and played the guitar and bass.

------
axod
I mess around on the piano, which I bought this last year. Love it to death,
it's great to just play when you need a break. (BTW I cannot recommend the
Yamaha GT2 enough).

I'm absolutely terrible at reading music, but I can play anything by ear, I
wonder if that's usual for hacker types.

<http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=y6UPJJqwc1k>

~~~
Flemlord
> I can play anything by ear, I wonder if that's usual for hacker types.

I think it has more to do with how you learned the instrument. Most
classically trained pianists I know couldn't sound out a Doors tune to save
their life. On the other hand, once I started playing in bands, just about
everybody I met could listen to a song and have it figured out within an hour.

I (a hacker type) was better than most classically trained types at sounding
out music, but still had difficulties compared to most people in the band
circuit. I usually couldn't really nail a part unless I found the music in a
magazine somewhere. (this was pre-Internet, today this wouldn't be an issue)

~~~
xiaoma
I have very little training myself, but my grandmother is a "classically
trained type". She was a cellist at Oberlin Conservatory and has perfect
pitch. I can send her into another room while I hit six keys on a piano and
she can name all the notes. I can kick a metal garbage can and she can say
what notes the resulting sound are closest to. While I was studying piano for
a short time myself, I tested her abilities pretty thoroughly. Writing out (or
just playing) a pop song is trivial for someone like that.

From what she's said to me, those skills weren't _that_ exceptional. Many good
strings players have perfect pitch, and even those who don't or those who play
other instruments have excellent relative pitch. I don't see how a classically
trained pianist would have problems with a Doors tune, especially considering
how few chord progressions pop songs use.

------
zkarcher
Electronic music producer, here.

The unofficial rule is: if you're a Flash programmer, you also create
electronic music.

------
cperciva
I play violin; I'm currently the concertmaster in the best non-professional
orchestra in Vancouver.

------
joshsharp
I've played guitar for years, not bad but I'll never be great. Just a bit of a
hobby, something manual to pick up and play with when I'm not coding.

------
NoBSWebDesign
I'm the lead guitar for Ann Arbor-based rock band, Moment of Inertia (we all
happen to be engineers... computer, electrical, mechanical, and aerospace
between the 4 of us).

<http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8umukDN_PVE>

We've been a band for 5 years now, and this is definitely my top activity
right after running our startup and right before autocrossing (oh, and my
girlfriend fits somewhere in there too).

------
brianto2010
I can play both violin and Bb clarinet; I started both in elementary school.
However, I only play violin now in high school.

From your link: _"music: n. A common extracurricular interest of hackers..."_

This definition is not just limited to just playing an instrument, though. It
also talks about music appreciation and genres of music.

To strictly follow that definition, try asking if we are significantly
involved with music in some way.

------
LogicHoleFlaw
I played woodwind instruments all through middle and high school. I started on
the clarinet, then the alto and tenor saxophones, and the bassoon as well. I
was quite proficient and seriously considered majoring in bassoon performance
in college but I decided to pursue CS instead. Unfortunately I haven't played
seriously since I graduated high school and I miss it dearly. I really should
find a used Tenor somewhere and pick it up again.

------
foulmouthboy
14 years of piano lessons. Also clarinet and saxaphone and I'll mess around
with just about everything else.

When I told my piano teacher that I was going to school for engineering and
got into the pre-med program (as opposed to music), she was in total shock and
her immediate response was, "wait... are you smart?"

------
pkeane
Fingerstyle guitar. <http://peterkeane.com>

------
liangzan
I play the classical guitar as a hobby(other than programming). Still learning
now. Now I'm performing for free at old folk's homes during festivals. That's
much more meaningful than playing it alone in my room.

------
nickfox
I've been playing guitar and singing for a good number of years. I'm working
on my second music video. It's the song Patience by Guns n' Roses. My first
music video was Across the Universe by the Beatles. I don't have very good
"stage presence" in my first video but the one I'm working on now will be much
better. Here's my first video:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7zro5VpUf0&feature=chann...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7zro5VpUf0&feature=channel_page)

------
baddox
Took piano lessons until 8th grade, in 9th grade picked up guitar on my own,
learned to play by ear, I'm pretty decent albeit a casual player. I don't play
in bands much, just jam around with friends, and I know I don't have the chops
to be a professional. Music is a great thing to geek out with, you can really
be a music gearhead just like with computer equipment. I'm especially
interested in digital audio workstation (DAW) technology, it's a perfect blend
of computer science and music.

~~~
baddox
<http://www.tshaddox.com/?cat=10> Some compositions of mine (mp3 downloads). A
modest piano composition of mine: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPS1DDVenrk>

------
lincolnq
I have played violin since I was very young, and more recently viola. I've
been interested recently in electric violin/viola, but I haven't gotten to try
them yet.

------
daydream
Played bass guitar for 8 years, and also have done a ton of audio recording
and engineering - recording bands live and in the studio, wore a bunch of
different hats on film and video projects, and did audio for some high-profile
art installations.

It's not my day job, but music is my main serious hobby outside of work, and
particularly with the music recording I've recorded literally in the 100's of
bands over the last decade or so.

------
artlogic
I actively play guitar and electric bass - I fool around on banjo, mandolin,
and drums. I'm also currently learning to play cello. I find that
playing/writing music often times gets me through a tough coding problem more
quickly than thinking about it directly. I'm also likely one of those people
who Knuth mentioned as I have pretty serious interests in the mathematics
behind computation.

------
tricky
Guitar. taught lessons to get thru h.s. and college (Best job ever for a punk
kid who happens to be punctual.) Went on the road for a few years with a band
(Best job ever for a beginning hacker (lots of time in the van with a
laptop.)) After that I got a "real programming job" and built copies of
vintage gear as a hobby. Now i'm in a working cover band and in a few
experimental things.

------
dag
I play in the church band every other week, that week involves 3 hours of
practice and a 5/6 song set. I highly recommend this as this setting includes
other people who require you to participate, and encourage you to play well.

Almost everyone in our band has a bachelor's degree, some have grad school,
and there are a couple PhDs and an MBA. Some of the musicians are amazing.

------
kaens
I actively play guitar, bass, and drums. Have been playing guitar all my life.

I can play piano and violin.

I like playing around with sequencers, I have some very quickly made tracks up
at <http://last.fm/music/kaens> , probably some stuff with more time put into
it up in a few weeks.

------
dmpayton
I've always wanted to play the guitar, and bought an electric (LP-style) when
I turned 18. Tried teaching myself to play, but life happened. Sadly, it's bow
collecting dust by my bedside.

When I'm not working 50 hours a week with several side projects on top of my
responsibilities as a husband and father, I'd like to pick it back up.

------
cheez80
drumset since middle school, orchestral percussion since about then too, and
mallet percussion (and drumline stuff) since high school. wait, that sounds a
bit misleading, since i don't do the orchestral, mallet, or drumline stuff
anymore.

i also played piano since like 6. stopped when i hit high school.

~~~
cheez80
oh yeah, also made this whilst in hs with a friend.

<http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR00828/>

so i guess i dabbled in electronic music for a bit too :)

------
maryrosecook
I've had a solo band for a few years
(<http://werenotthecoolkids.com/music/index.php>). I've been in several bands
with friends. I play the guitar, drums and sing. Being a polymath is really
important to me.

------
nickd
I started playing banjo 8 months ago. It's pretty much been my only hobby
since then. Though, I think the upstairs neighbors may have moved out as a
result. I still haven't found a way to practice that's fruitful, and yet isn't
way to loud for everyone else. Mutes just aren't fun.

------
elbicho
I play guitar, compose and do recording engineering

This is my profile in a nice collaborative site.

[http://www.kompoz.com/compose-collaborate/userName-
elbicho/p...](http://www.kompoz.com/compose-collaborate/userName-
elbicho/profile.member)

------
krepsj
I play harmonica. Not at very good level but good enough to be able to jam
with my friends guitar.

~~~
Zsolt
Right there with you. I picked it up only a few months ago so I'm an amateur
at best.

I always keep my harmonica within the reach of my hands, so whenever I'm tired
of coding I lean back and play a little.

------
timothyandrew
I play bass. Used to play the piano.

~~~
dag
Same, but played trumpet in between (I find that bassists have often played
trumpet in the past).

~~~
timothyandrew
Well, it's always easier to learn a second instrument if you have a firm grasp
on basic music theory. I hated playing the piano, but in retrospect, it's
really helped me pick up the bass faster/better.

------
nx
I play the piano, as a hobby. One or two hours a day. I go to classes and I've
been playing for five or six years. I have also composed some electronic music
and remixed popular tracks but I stopped doing that because of lack of time.

------
Flemlord
Piano. Classically trained, but after I dropped out of college (for unrelated
reasons), I spent a couple years playing in cover bands, church organ, piano
bars. Sadly, after getting into computers, I haven't touched it for 15 years.

------
drewcrawford
I've played keyboards for about 11 years. This summer, I was in a Dream
Theater cover band.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfmhWH7BVA4>

------
Erf
I compose electronic music. Attempted to learn to play keyboard at a late age,
but progressed unsatisfyingly slowly.

I would agree that a disproportionate number of programmers I know are
musically inclined.

------
chops
I play Piano and Clarinet. While it's been about 8 years, I used to write
orchestral and new age MIDI music for a few years (<http://gumm.8k.com>)

------
msg
I play and record myself on acoustic-electric plugged into a multi-effects
pedal, plugged into the computer, and I sing.

I suck at everything.

------
h34t
I hadn't played a musical instrument in 10 years, but last month I picked up a
keyboard and began teaching myself piano. I really enjoy it.

------
DTrejo
I used to play clarinet in middle school and elementary.

I racked up ~5 years before quitting.

I also have a Bb r13 clarinet for sale.

------
sctb
I play the guitar (electric, acoustic) and the electric bass. Before working
as a programmer I taught fretted strings professionally.

------
iloveyouocean
I play the Dumbek. Mostly middle-eastern style.

------
graywh
Playing an instrument has a good correlation with higher intelligence. And
it's no secret that hackers are some of the smartest.

------
MoeDrippins
I'm not sure I'm considered a musician, yet, but I'm learning bass guitar. I
practice daily, though not as much as I'd like.

------
statictype
I play the Veena on and off.

I find it's a good release valve from spending too much time in front of the
screen.

------
defunkt
I've played guitar for a while. I try to practice at least three times a week
for 1 - 4 hours each sitting.

------
brianr
Piano, guitar, bass, clarinet, viola. Haven't played the last three much in
the last few years though.

------
rms
I played various combinations of drums through high school. Right now I'm
taking a tabla class.

------
ynd
I play the guitar. But I wouldn't call myself a musician just yet.

Love music though.

------
mattdennewitz
my band (2-piece called coltrane motion) just played a sold-out show w/ mucca
pazza (look them up right this second) at the empty bottle (chicago) last
night. blown out hip-hop beats under farfisa, ms-10, and guitar noise. fun
stuff.

------
shutter
Piano, mostly. Actually, I'm graduating this year with a decree in both CS and
music.

------
runningskull
I play the banjo, and can't seem to stop playing the banjo. It's like a drug.

------
asdf333
played violin since age 2.

played in various national and all-state hs orchestras.

stopped playing in college though and haven't played since

------
paul7986
Piano & guitar - hobby songwriter

------
nose
I am re-learning the piano.

------
geuis
Trombone and baritone

------
tonetheman
i play guitar

------
curiousgeorge
piano.

