
Why aren't we all using Japanese toilets? - rohin
http://priceonomics.com/toilets/#japanese
======
patio11
Toto's primary sales channel is "If you build a house or office in Japan and
don't specifically talk to your architect/contractor about your post-bowel
movement preferences we will take the liberty of using the most current model
Toto has available and then invoice you cost plus labor plus 50%."

Toto does not have that relationship with the person responsible for picking
your toilet.

Why does Toto have that relationship with the guy who picked my toilet?
They've got a sales rep in Ogaki. His most important job is making sure they
know of every business start for a construction company and that every time it
happens the company gets a wreath (that's considered auspicious and is
socially mandatory to buy when someone close to you starts a shop) and the
principals get invited out drinking. Toto is, naturally, buying. The sales guy
will not be so gauche as to mention "Say, apropos of nothing, do you do cost-
plus projects? We have a proposition for you which will put $100 extra in your
pocket for every bathroom you build."

~~~
arrrg
People don’t pick the toilets in their houses? I find that hard to imagine.

People not picking the pipes or bricks that are used I can see, but the
toilet? No way. Before I buy a toilet I want to at least sit on it and I
cannot imagine anyone feeling any other way about that.

~~~
adestefan
Even in most custom built homes you only pick the fit and finish and not the
actual product. This is mainly done for cost reasons since specific products
means you need someone to take the time to review existing plans to make sure
everything fits and is spec'ed out properly.

~~~
arrrg
See, my perspective is completely skewed. I don’t even know what a custom
built home is. I don’t have a house nor any plans to get one but my dad (a
civil engineer, usually planning water supply systems) drew up all the plans
for my parents’ house and my parents (including the extended family plus
friends) really did nearly everything by themselves, and that includes picking
out all the interior. Everything is custom about that house. In that context
someone telling you which toilet to get is nonsense.

~~~
adestefan
What i'm saying is the customer usually asks for a white toilet that looks
like X. The builder says, "Manufacturer Y has something like that. Does this
look good?" knowing that manufacturer Y works with his suppliers who will have
the exact product at the exact time that they need it.

Sure you can go to a builder and say I want this, this, this, and this, but be
ready to pay out the nose for someone to do all the work to make sure they
show up correctly and at the appropriate time.

~~~
arrrg
See, my parents are the kind of people who would micromanage that kind of
stuff. I mean, I know they would, because they did when they recently
renovated their bathroom. This time they paid people to do the actual work
(everyone’s getting older), but they made sure to get the right kinds of tiles
and drew a plan for the tilers on how to arrange the tiles. Which tiles to cut
in which way, and where to, for example, put the patterned tiles.

------
aptimpropriety
Every one of these articles gets the pitch of these toilets completely wrong -
for every person, and in every scenario, these are not universally better.

Consider the following experiment:

Smear some mud on your arm. Now, using a jet stream the power of a squirt gun
and very low precision, wash it all off in 10 seconds. Not so easy. Then -
imagine if you put mud on a place with hair! Not only will it not be clean
without some actual washing, we haven't even gotten to the drying part yet.

Fact of the matter is, these do not replace toilet paper. I thought they were
OK (Google) until I decided to use toilet paper after - and I was shocked and
disappointed. My routine simply got longer and more complex, with a small
value add of washing with water instead of dry paper.

Sorry about the grim detail - I think the 'squeamish about bathroom routine'
point of the article is right - just in the wrong way!

~~~
veidr
I read a version of this argument in some US newspaper a while back. It
completely misses the point.

These ass-jet toilets are not intended to replace toilet paper. They are for
getting your asshole (and ladyparts, but I can't testify on that topic) much
cleaner in much less time than with conventional American toilets and dry
paper alone.

You use the ass-jet, then paper. That's how they work. (For a heinous bowel-
movement situation, you might do paper, ass-jet, paper again.) You aren't
supposed to skip the paper!

Using your mud example, if you got mud all over your head, would you rather
just keep scraping your head with dry paper towels, and use up a couple rolls
worth and still have some mud left over, or use some water too? Same
principle.

If you take a perfect shit (love when that happens), then sure, it just slides
out and leaves behind minimal debris. Great. But let's say you ate a plate of
Uncle Jim's nachos the night before, along with a twelve pack of PBR, and you
definitely didn't achieve shitting perfection this time. _That_ is when these
toilets really shine.

The number of times you have to wipe your ass to achieve that comforting pure-
white-no-residue final wipe, that tells you your asshole is clean, is
_astronomically_ higher with paper only than it is with an ass-jet plus paper.
I mean, have you ever had one of those wipe-it-ten-time-and-dammit-it-still-
isn't-clean kind of shits? You just never have that happen with the ass-jet.
The water helps wash your doody-hole AND that moistens the toilet paper (for
the first post-jet wipe). That makes it work better, just like a wet dishrag
is more effective at cleaning a dish than a dry one.

I personally would be surprised if populations that lack ass-jet toilets
didn't have a higher incidence of hemmhorrhoids from all that wiping, over a
lifetime. I don't think we have that long-term data yet.

But from personal experience, they have saved me thousdands and thousands of
asshole-wipes over the years, and I could never go back to a the barbaric
American toilets of my youth.

(When I moved back to America several years ago, I brought a Toto washlet
toilet seat with me. And the new apartment that I just bought in Tokyo had
many options to specify, but the toilet wasn't one of them--just as patio11
suggests above, the place came with a brand new whiz-bang model featuring the
latest in shitter technology from Toto, complete with not only heated seat,
ass-jet, and wall-mounted control panel, but also sensors that allow it to
raise the seat automatically as I approach, and flush for me when I am done.)

~~~
fabioferrari
I'm laughing my ass off... Great and insightful post!

------
eob
Americans, by and large, are quite bizarre when it comes to discussing
anything that takes place below the belt.

When I mentioned working at Google, I have had multiple people say to me, "I
heard the founders at Google are OBSESSED with toilets and import special
models from Japan." As if one has to be stark raving mad to use a modern
toilet from Japan, instead of the old fashioned toilet which was probably
imported from China anyway.

~~~
s_henry_paulson
From what I read on the internet 25-40% of people out there seem to stand up
to wipe.. and I have to believe that's largely due to people never discussing
how they use the restroom.

~~~
eob
No, they stand because that part of the world is used to squatting when they
go to the bathroom. The "toilet as throne" model is from the west. Over there,
historically, toilets are built into the floor. The toilet bowl is a rounded-
rectangle depression in the floor rather than something that sticks out of it.
You stand with one foot on either side of the bowl and squat while you do your
business.

I prefer Western toilets (I'm American), but think the squat-strategy has a
lot of sense to it: you never touch anything, and the squat position angles
your body "just right" if you know what I mean. It's just a bit awkward for us
(Westerners) when you're not used to holding that body position, though.

There, now I can cross off "get into public internet discussion of pooping
strategy" from my life goals list. :)

~~~
aplusbi
When I first started using toilets on my own I stood to wipe. Eventually I
figured out that I could remain seated.

This was on a western toilet.

~~~
goostavos
I've transitioned into a bit of a hybrid strategy. Sit for the broad strokes,
stand for the detail work.

~~~
DeepDuh
HN is truly insightful today ;).

------
ComputerGuru
$15 in parts from your local hardware store gets you the basic tools you need
to build a water-powered hygiene system.

All you need is the "spray head" with flexible hose [0], plus the adaptor to
make a kitchen part fit the bathroom piping (for some reason, kitchen and
bathroom have non-interchangeable parts).

You hang it on a hook next to the toilet, and you use it to clean yourself. I
cannot live without these, and I intensely regret any overnight trips to a
hotel or other place that does not have such an amenity. I regularly recommend
and sometimes even buy and install these for friends and family.

The USA is still living in the dark ages when it comes to some parts of self-
hygiene.

0: [http://ecx.images-
amazon.com/images/I/21PJ48yqYmL._SL500_AA3...](http://ecx.images-
amazon.com/images/I/21PJ48yqYmL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

~~~
seanmcdirmid
This is how they do it in Thailand, at least. Basically, imagine the sprayer
in your kitchen sink attached to your toilet.

In areas without (edit: running) water, they'll have a bucket of clean water
nearby with some sort of cup to use. I've heard this is pretty common in SE
Asia.

~~~
simontzu
Yup!

And people eat with their hands a lot too. This is why its considered
disgusting to eat with the left hand in many places. Right hand for eating,
left hand for washing your ass.

One of the benefits of having travelled a lot in Asia is you will never again
be phased by running out of toilet paper.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
People in SE Asia don't eat with their hands, you must be thinking about
Central/South Asia. Spray cleaning really isn't that bad, you should be
washing your hands after anyways.

~~~
jinushaun
No, we (Thai, Laos, and Cambodian) do eat with our hands. Chopsticks were a
cultural import from the Chinese.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Really? I never saw anyone eating with their hands in SE Asia, well, anything
but street food. Its hard to eat a rice or noodle dish with your hands,
especially without bread!

Genuinely curious.

~~~
anant
Rice based dishes are remarkably easy to eat by hand (it is extremely common
in South India, see [http://migrationology.com/2012/01/how-to-eat-with-your-
hands...](http://migrationology.com/2012/01/how-to-eat-with-your-hands-rice-
and-curry/) for a video), but your point holds true for noodles.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
I know people eat with their hands in south/central Asia (including Burma), as
well as in Muslim areas (Malaysia/Indonesia), I just never saw that in Tai
areas of SE Asia. Well, you learn something everyday I guess.

~~~
hisyam
We usually eat using our right hand when it involves rice. Otherwise we use
spoon & fork.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Nice to know! Too bad I'm left handed :(

------
Osmium
How does one go about cleaning these? It always seemed to me that, if the
nozzle got dirty, then they could cause more problems than they solve.
Especially (to quote the article) if it's spraying the "female genital area."
If there's any bacteria on that nozzle, and since it's been in a toilet for
any number of years I'd guess there might be, surely there'd be a risk of it
causing UTIs and the like?

~~~
Pinatubo
A friend of mine has one of these toilets, and the first thing I did before
sitting down was look at the nozzle. It was covered in tiny bits of feces. I
stuck with the toilet paper.

------
MrFoof
The US is a notoriously price-sensitive market. For a lot of folks, they
wouldn't consider paying $1000+ for a toilet when the most basic American
Standard can be found for about $125. A lot of people would find it hard to
justify an order of magnitude price increase.

I know Boston has a Toto showroom in its North End, but I really cant consider
it due to the rules of my apartment building.

~~~
tomjen3
How long does a toilet last? Ten years?

Then we are talking less than the cost of your internet connection (and we
won't mention the cost of food, which is way more than that).

~~~
cowsaysoink
Well I don't think people spend enough time on the toilet to justify an extra
cost (save maybe IBS and toilet readers/surfers).

And right now toilets are fully functional for most people, mine aren't
uncomfortable to me and are easy to clean and most repairs can be done quite
easily yourself. Adding technology to that sounds like trouble and would
likely require calling out a plumber to fix things.

~~~
hudibras
Ten minutes a day on the toilet is 60 hours each year. Over 80 years, that's
200 days of your life.

------
swampthing
I might in the paranoid minority on this, but here are some concerns I have:

* How does the toilet know that everything is clean? With toilet paper, you can just wipe with new toilet paper until there is no more residue.

* What is the algorithm for the toilet's spraying? Does it end up spreading diluted feces around, or is it careful to spray outward-in?

* What happens if feces end up on the nozzle? Is there some kind of auto-cleaning mechanism? Otherwise it might end up spraying old feces back to me.

~~~
radley
\- It's like washing your hands vs. wiping them off with a paper towel. You
should wipe clean first, then you water clean.

\- The sprayer is manually controlled: when you're done using and flushing,
then you wash & dry. It doesn't just stick out the whole time.

~~~
crusso
Regarding the sprayer, the question is not necessarily what happens to it when
it's not spraying water... when the nozzle is in the process of spraying you,
it's unavoidable that some of the contaminated splatter goes back into the
nozzle.

Anyone who uses that toilet will inevitably share the germ cultures from one
another's feces. That doesn't strike me as very sanitary.

~~~
nikatwork
Unless you can poop at a higher pressure than the stream of water exiting the
nozzle, the poop isn't going to work back in there.

~~~
crusso
You ever spray a hose away from you and get hit with the splatter? Imagine
spraying the hose up to clean the underside of a gutter. Can you imagine
getting hit with splatter? Can you imagine the hose getting hit with splatter?
Can you imagine the rim of the nozzle getting hit with splatter?

~~~
nikatwork
Sure, the _outside_ of the nozzle/arm will get by splatter, just like the rest
of the toilet bowl. But the nozzle rim and interior will remain splatter free
because of the jet of water. Any surface where particles can touch the stream
will be washed clean by the stream.

This is no different to the splashback that can occur when poop hits the bowl
water (water that's been touching the splattered sides of the bowl).

It's no grosser than a regular toilet, and your butt will be cleaner.

------
makmanalp
The odd thing is, in Turkey we universally have a nozzle on the back of the
toilet that just is a stream of water that falls in an arc forwards. You
control it from a tap on the side, on the wall. You turn on the stream and
then angle yourself onto it, or wet your toilet paper a bit when wiping.

Way less toilet paper (just to wipe&dry at the end), cleans way faster, your
bum is not itchy, and it costs nothing. The toilet bowls come with this.

I hate American toilets. This can't just be a Turkish quirk, right?

~~~
GFischer
Nope. Reading the comments, anywhere BUT the United States you can get some
form of water cleaning \- Southern Europeans and South Americans have Bidets
\- Northern Europeans have Bidet Showers (well, Germans have the shelf thing)
\- Asians have these toilets (saw posts claiming about Korea, India and Japan)

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet_shower>

------
majormajor
The US population seems rather stubborn regarding toilet habits. This is
anecdotal, but I knew a guy who interned about a decade ago with a company
that produces a lot of toilet paper here in the US. He told me that they had
internally developed forms of "wet" toilet paper that were pretty much
superior to the dry kind in every way (think of the difference in trying to
clean off your hands with a dry paper towel and a wet wipe of some kind), and
IIRC they thought they could produce them in a way that wouldn't cause a
substantial price hike, but whenever they did tests consumers almost
universally _hated_ the feeling, and regardless of how much better/easier they
cleaned, they basically refused to consider them. Which is a shame, since dry
paper really isn't the best cleaning tool...

~~~
smackfu
One obvious problem: room temperature wet things are kind of cold when you put
them down there.

------
graeme
I recently started using a squat toilet. Never has number two gone so well.
Apparently it's the position we're best designed for. Provides a great hip
flexor stretch too.

I use a lillipad: <http://www.lillipad.co.nz/>

It converts any normal toilet into an optional squat toilet. I don't think it
would work with these warm-water jet toilets though.

If you have _any_ issues with your bowel movements (constipation, diarrhea,
both), you owe it to yourself to try a squat toilet.

~~~
mmagin
Here's another similar product <http://www.naturesplatform.com/>

~~~
graeme
They sent me a 'sorry, we have to much business to sell you anything' message.

I suggested they raise prices to a level that would let them sell more. Never
heard anything back.

------
mirkules
While I find bidet toilets incredibly useful, I don't understand why this is
such a sudden revelation. The French invented these toilets in the 18th
century: they were/are in wide use in Europe, middle east, and I've even
encountered a few in Canadian hotels (<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet>).
Is there something fundamentally different about Japanese bidets (other than
integration into the toilet itself)?

~~~
beatgammit
I think the main difference is that the Japanese toilet is paperless. From the
wikipedia page:

> In 1980 the first "paperless toilet" was launched in Japan, a combination
> toilet and bidet which also dries the user after washing.

The bidet often required something separate to dry after cleaning, so the
difference seems to be integration with the toilet plus the dryer (heated seat
optional).

On another note, on a recent trip to Korea, I noticed that many homes had
these toilets (mentioned on wikipedia article). The article seems to imply
that they are unique to Japan, when they're actually popular almost everywhere
outside of the US.

~~~
henrikschroder
Eh, they're not popular in Europe either.

------
mberning
Try using a toilet in Germany. Without being too crass, you deposit your
excrement onto a dry shelf, whereupon it may be inspected, or not, and then a
rush of water slides it off the shelf to its destination.

~~~
kghose
1\. Uses less water 2\. No splash back

~~~
smackfu
3\. Smells worse.

~~~
kalleboo
This cannot be understated. They smell really bad. Have a friend who lived in
Prague and his bathroom wasn't ventilated and he had a german shelf-toilet.
Day after a big drinking session, it was unusable since the room smelt so bad.

------
zampano
What I really miss from Japan are the toilets with a sink on top of the water
container on the back (something like this:
<http://f00.inventorspot.com/images/profile-toilet.jpg>). You flush the toilet
and the water refilling the container comes out of a faucet for you to wash
your hands real quick and the water going down the drain fills the container
up for the next flush. It seems so simple and helps save a tiny bit of water
every trip to the bathroom. Now if only Japanese bathrooms started providing
their own soap so I wouldn't have to bring my own everywhere...

~~~
GFischer
Japanese sure are efficient with their use of space :) .

------
jiggy2011
I imagine it's to do with price, at least for public toilets.

Here in the UK , we can't have nice things because someone will just take the
liberty of smashing it to pieces for you.

For what I have heard about places like Tokyo; you have vending machines for
just about all of your needs, fancy toilets and video game arcades have actual
chairs to sit on while you play the machines.

None of these things would last 5 minutes in the UK.

------
marknutter
Flushable wet wipes changed my bathroom life. I now don't even consider doing
my business without them. Way cheaper than installing a bidet, and I would
argue it's more effective, too.

~~~
ars
BTW There is no such thing as a flushable wet wipe. They claim you can flush
them, but they actually clog pipes frequently, and don't disintegrate like
they should.

[http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/home--
garden/be...](http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/home--garden/bed--
bath/flushable-wipes/16935265001/22783507001/)

------
jnar
I mean, seriously. Forget about hyper-tech stuff and get a normal bidet and
learn how to wash your ass properly. That's pretty much all you need to
improve your life and it will cost way less than 500$.

------
stcredzero
I'm sure it's because Americans have funny attitudes. Programmers, who spend
lots of time sitting, should see this as a way of increasing comfort during
work time. For the same reason and others (prevalence of pizza at meet ups)
programmers should consider modest amounts of fiber supplements like
Metamucil. (Not like a conventional laxative at all, and it enables your GI
tract to handle just about anything you throw at it gracefully, so long as you
get enough water.)

~~~
lotso
Metamucil is definitely my favorite lifehack. Not to be crude, but having no-
wipe number 2s is amazing.

------
mcormier
"These exquisite toilets are everywhere in Japan"

Really? I was there for 5 days last spring and never encountered one of these
toilets. I did, however, encounter a hole in the ground, you gotta squat to do
a number two public toilet stall.

~~~
Osmium
I've been to both Sapporo and Tokyo, and I can assure you there're everywhere.
Certainly everywhere I went. I did see squat toilets too though; some places
had both.

------
john78
As a cheaper alternative, you can try these two things:

\- A foot-stool to place your feet on so you are in a more natural position
which seems to help with the flow of things and could reduce the amount of
cleanup required. See "Going to the Bathroom 2.0" -
<http://youtu.be/0WQaqeC_wME>

\- And flushable baby wipes.

Simple but very effective.

------
xutopia
I live in Canada and if that water isn't heated before coming in contact with
my hiney I can assure you that it'll be too cold for comfort at least in the
winter.

~~~
gutnor
I'm just back from holiday in Japan. All the toilets I used had heated (tepid)
water. To me that's what made the difference between pleasant and what could
have been awful.

------
base698
In a humid/muggy environment I didn't know how I lived without Japanese
toilets. I secretly wished we'd lost WW2 after I visited Tokyo the first time
:)

------
ww520
It's too expensive. $1000 vs a typical $100 toilet. Cleaning this thing is an
extra hassle. The psychological aversion of having some liquid spraying FROM
the toilet adds to the lack of interest.

------
omnisci
I don't use those because I prefer the 3 shells.

Although I've never used one the Japanese toilets, I would be a huge fan of
the heated seat portion. If I had the money, that would be a feature I'd
enjoy.

------
hasenj
You don't need high tech. You just needs some pipes and a water hose; AKA:
"shattaf". It's quite common in the middle east.

Unfortunately these are not easy to install in houses built in a North
American style, because there are no floor drains in the toilet, so if you
install a "shattaf" the floor will eventually soak in water; keeping it clean
and dry is very annoying and difficult.

I don't understand why people in the West use toilet papers instead of
washing.

When I have to use toilet papers, I will also use flushable wet wipes.

------
traughber
Another place in San Francisco that has Japanese toilets? Our company, GREE
International. And we're hiring :)

<http://gree-corp.com/jobs>

~~~
tomjen3
Now to get a visa.

------
kjell
About a year ago I installed a bidet in my bathroom. It's the one pictured
towards the bottom of this article, and I bought it on amazon. I use it and
"cloth toilet paper" for my butt-cleaning. It's great.

The water washes me clean. Often 100% and always most of the way. It took a
bit to get the hang of it: to get a good wash I find it helps to clench my
butt muscles and wiggle on the seat. After 5-10 seconds, I wipe with the
cloth: old t-shirts cut into ~4x8" rectangles. The water does a much better
job of cleaning than toilet paper.

When I first had the bidet I used toilet paper after the spray to dry off. It
was only slightly less miserable than having a waterlogged ass. I needed twice
as much paper to dry myself off as I would have used to wipe.

For a while I hung an old microfiber towel next to the toilet and used that,
but "oh, that's just my butt-towel…" is an interesting conversation to have.
So I cut up some old shirts. They go into a bucket after use and I wash them
regularly. The cloth is what makes it work.

I can only imagine what it would be like to have a blowdryer down there.

------
w1ntermute
A funny related article: _Odor-eliminating pants are hot seller in Japan;
Undergarments disguise smell of flatulence, body odor_ :
[http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/odor-
eliminatin...](http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/odor-eliminating-
pants-hot-seller-japan-article-1.1201110)

------
piyush_soni
After being in multiple countries, I can safely conclude that if you think the
daily 'paper' routine can clean it properly, it can't. If you think only a
water jet can clean it properly, it can't. You have to use both. My schedule
is something like : Paper->Water jet->Paper and I feel perfect after this! :)

------
acomjean
I have a TOTO (cambridge ma), but it has none of the fancy features. It did
come with a sticker on the seat for www.cleanishappy.com/ which sells the
super toilet seat ad ons. The toliet works well and uses very little water. It
doesn't spin flush but instead uses a wave of water when flushing.

~~~
usefulcat
We got one of these for each bathroom because they are virtually uncloggable.
They may not render toilet paper obsolete, but they do very nearly render the
plunger obsolete.

------
yason
It sounds like way too hi-tech. I guess people around the world are pretty
much happy to get the job done one way or another. I know that there are
people who wipe and people who wash. Then some others who do things I probably
don't know how to imagine.

If you're not keen on using a piece of paper to smudge your shit into your
anus more permanently than necessary, then there are always bidet showers
(without the bidet sink, it's just an extra shower with a smaller outlet).
Wikipedia says "Its [bidet shower] use is very common in Finland, romance
speaking countries, arab countries and other countries of muslim background."

So, the dry and wet options are already covered to most countries' likings and
the spraying toilet seat doesn't effectively offer any groundbreaking
improvements in the appropriate department.

~~~
akamel
indeed the 'showers' separate handle beside the toilet, or the cheaper seat
based options are very popular among Muslims in general as using water for
cleaning after bathroom is seen as a religious requirement.

ex from amazon:
[http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=muslim+shower&...](http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=muslim+shower&tag=googhydr-20)

------
rsaarelm
Don't all new bathrooms have bidet showers?

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet_shower>

Huh, guess not. Those have been around in Finland at least since the late 80s,
and don't have the "what's the deal with the computerized toilet seat" image
problem.

------
beefman
I'm sure I want a plastic nozzle, mounted inside a toilet, spraying water up
into my ass.

I poop in the morning, wipe off the worst with toilet paper, then hop in the
shower. Works great, and my shower head has the advantage of never having been
splashed by someone else's pee.

------
cynoclast
I do have one of these. I rent, so I didn't get a super expensive one that
would require running electricity etc, but it is wonderful. Soooooo much
cleaner than paper.

Think about it, if you were to get shit on your hands you wouldn't just wipe
it off with dry paper would you? Why do you wash your butt that way? It is
completely illogical and very unsanitary.

I bought one of these: [http://www.amazon.com/LUXE-Bidet-Vi-110-Non-Electric-
Mechani...](http://www.amazon.com/LUXE-Bidet-Vi-110-Non-Electric-
Mechanical/dp/B005IT4C6G/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1353003347&sr=1-1&keywords=bidet+toilet+seat)

$42 installed in 10 minutes with a screwdriver and wrench.

I love it! I wish other bathrooms had them.

------
ErrantX
Also, economics. These toilets currently cost ~$500 more than a "normal"
toilet.

Of course, you do use significantly more toilet paper with the latter, but a
pack is ~$5 and lasts ~ 1 month, so you'd still be looking at, what 8-10 year
return on investment.

~~~
crusso
_but a pack is ~$5 and lasts ~ 1 month_

Ah, I remember my bachelor days too.

~~~
ErrantX
Multibuy is your friend! I sat down and worked out _our_ real toilet roll cost
and it is lower than $5/mo

------
muraiki
At first I thought this article would be about squat toilets (which I did also
encounter in Greece). While it's true that a squat toilet means that you don't
have to sit on something that other people have sat on, it also leaves a lot
of room for, how shall I put it... error? I encountered some pretty bad public
restrooms in Japan...

When I lived in Japan for a few months, I think I only ever came across one or
two bidet toilets. Frankly, I was too afraid to try it. I kept wondering what
would happen if the mechanism malfunctioned or missed or something. Typical
geek worries, I guess!

------
me2i81
I suppose with all this discussion of efficiency of cleansing it might be
indelicate to point out that some people enjoy having warm water shot up their
ass, and women enjoy the "front wash" feature also.

------
Aloisius
The only reason I do not have one is that I don't have a power plug near my
toilet. It has been my experience that women, once they try them, especially
love bidets with built in dryers.

The marketing could be better. Education comes first. If non-bidet toilets
were contrasted as crude, unhygienic and downright barbaric, I think we'd see
a lot more demand for them and bidet makers should be offering them free to
restaurants and clothing stores to place in women's bathrooms.

But for me, the problem still comes back to power.

------
radley
I've been planning to install one but:

1) I rent

2) have two bathrooms: downstairs everyone uses, upstairs is mostly me.

So:

1) do I take care of everyone or just myself first (i.e. upstairs or
downstairs)?

2) costs are probably not as low as they claim. I'll need to have an
electrician run power near to the toilet which also means ripping out part of
the wall, replacing, and repainting.

3) I feel funny doing this as a tenant and I've wondered how well property
company would respond to covering the installation costs. I figure it's like
installing a new appliance...

------
cerebrum
I thought this would be about the benefits of the squat toilet.

~~~
schiffern
Yep, me too. Given how much time it saves, I'm surprised more life hackers
don't get into it.

[http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/201...](http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2010/08/dont_just_sit_there.single.html)

------
jtlienwis
And once we get passsed the bidet stage then we can go on to the urine
diverting toilet. Check out the latest toilet design competition run by the
Gates foundation...

~~~
GFischer
Nice. I have a sketch of an urine recycling toilet - my point was to use
recycled urine for the first flush cycle of feces, but I never had time nor
money to make a prototype. I hope someone makes one, it should save quite a
lot of water.

I respect Bill Gates for working on those projects - it would be easier just
to manage traditionally all that money.

------
coltonb1
They have one of these in the Google Venture Startup Lab and I can personally
testify that they are every bit as good as this article describes. Thanks GV!

------
tomrod
You know, sometimes there just needs to be a match to light the fire.
Supposedly (but indeterminately) Clark Gable wearing no undershirt drove
undershirt sales down 75%[0]

I reckon an episode Modern Family or Community where this type of toilet/bidet
is a positive driver of the comedy would bring in a lot of sales for bidets.

[0] <http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/gable1.asp>

------
captainchaos
These toilets are a pleasure to use. But I think the main reason many people
don't consider them is that you need a nearby electrical socket or have a big
dumb cable on your bathroom floor. The article quotes $500 to have a GFCI
socket installed but that in unrealistically low in some parts of the country.
> $1000 is a decent investment, especially if you consider your bunghole
reasonably clean today.

------
S_A_P
So not trolling here- serious question. My concern with these things is that
the spray nozzle would get "dirty" and end up spraying fecal or urine tainted
water at my bum. When you raise the seat does the spray nozzle raise with it?
How easy is it to clean? I have 2-10 year old kids that would be using this
thing so I am more concerned because they have not yet mastered good aim or
toilet hygiene...

------
bagosm
I cant believe how overenthusiastic this article is. From one of the reviews
it quotes: “Going to the bathroom has become an enjoyable experience.”

Other than they might as well be good, they are certainly a novelty unless you
have very specific reasons to get one. Also another thing to fear is cameras
and wifi, it's japanese after all!

Somebody is pushin some high-tech loos! I'd rather know how to use the three
seashell system...

~~~
nikatwork
Try one before passing judgement. Seriously, try one. It's a quasi-religious
experience.

------
anonymous
1\. They're much more expensive

2\. You need to retrain your cleaning staff to know how to handle these. It's
like entrusting them with dusting off your server rack.

------
justinhj
Going to the toilet is very culturally determined. Take a poo in Germany and
when you stand up your poo will be waiting for you on a shelf, in case you
wish to examine it (historically to identify health issues). Will that ever
translate to the US? No, because it's a different culture not interested in
examining their own poo. Same goes for Japan/Korea and the bum washing toilet.

------
michelleclsun
The best part of these toilets is not the washing function, which in Asia
frankly not a lot of people use (I lived in Hong Kong, Beijing and traveled
extensively across main cities in Asia) but the _heated seats_. Once in a ski
lodge in Niseko, Hokkaido, Japan, after a long day of snowboarding, these
heated seats really save the day - Japanese perfectionism at its best.

------
lux
Do these improve upon the ergonomics of the common toilet? I'm thinking of the
comparison between sitting and squatting positions.

~~~
axusgrad
Heated seats.

Finding a plumber I trust seems like a problem some startup has solved.
There's never enough time to follow this up, I've been intending to upgrade
for over a year.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Heated toilet seats are essential in Japan where many houses lack very good
indoor heating.

The best for me was heated train seats, but we've ventured away from toilets.

------
radley
Hotel Kabuki in Japantown has them of course...

~~~
suyash
Oh, the one in Japantown on Geary St. in SF, I need to stay there sometime

------
paulsutter
Touch-free and heated are the main advantages of Japanese toilets. The seat
raises as you approach, lowers automatically, and the toilet flushes when you
stand up. I returned yesterday from a two-month trip to Japan, and now the
toilets here seem primitive, unclean, and cold. Why touch a toilet seat or
handle with your hand?

------
EdgarVerona
Because I don't want to fly that far just to use the bathroom!

... joking aside, I think it's the notion of using water that might freak
people out. I'm not opposed to the concept, but I would worry about its
effectiveness. I mean, I feel like I'd always want toilet paper there, even if
it's just a placebo for making me feel truly clean.

------
evolve2k
Toilet habits form early and then are hard to change I'm thinking one idea for
creating a market would be to pick a city and then subsidize the toilets to be
installed in child care centers and primary schools. Get kids used to the
experience and benefit from the 'yeah I remember we had them at school' affect
later.

------
davemel37
I recall an old Dave Barry article about laws around water usage in toilets...
Turns out it is super-regulated.

What I found fascinating was this site claiming that,"it takes 635 gallons of
water to make a hamburger, but only one to flush it." <http://www.map-
testing.com/>

------
ma2xd
How do you know when you are clean and it's safe to pull up your pants? Does
it have a mirror or something?

------
Khurrum
A thousand bucks to buy and install is kinda steep for minor comfort. If the
company / apartment complex already does it, then its something cool, but
otherwise its coming out of your paycheck and that money can buy other cool
things that you might care about more.

------
taofu
Washlets do not substitute for toilet paper.

a)The toilet spray isn't sufficient to eradicate your fecal remains, unless it
is adjusted to garden-hose spray levels. Painful.

b)Drying your sprayed behind with a heated fan is uncomfortable.

------
darkstar999
What happens when the controls on these toilets wear out? Are they
replaceable? The thing about toilets I am used to in the US is that the moving
parts are completely replaceable.

------
yeonhoyoon
These toilets are pretty common in Korea as well, but it's not recommended to
use bidets in public toilets, because it can easily become contaminated with
excrement, germs, etc.

------
ktf
If you live in SF check out the bathrooms in the Viz/New People Cinema on Post
St -- they have these fancy contraptions. Maybe catch a movie while you're
there, too :)

------
antirez
How the wonderful Japanese gardens, their sensibility for design, beauty,
simplicity, and this awful toilets can convive in the same culture, is a
mystery to me.

------
solarbunny
How about this swedish self cleaning toilet:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5ul7prwoiM>

------
trifilij
I actually do use a bidet, from <http://www.bluebidet.com/> it was easy to
install and keeps my ass clean

~~~
travis29
Ha! I have the same one and love it!

------
towski
The article says that bidet attachments are 100 dollars on Amazon. I have good
news everyone! Amazon has dropped those prices to 30 dollars! I bought one!

------
dsrguru
Watch the washlet industry sweep across the Bay Area now.

------
eternalban
“Basically, we're the Apple Computers of toilets” \- Toto spokesperson

Clearly not true. The Apple Computer of toilets would only allow you to
download via iPoop.

------
btilly
My sister has one of these.

My 4 year old used it. Once. When it sprayed her, she jumped up, ran out of
the room, and refused to ever touch that toilet again.

------
jbverschoor
I can't imagine these responses over here.. I've been to japan 3 times, and
everytime I wish I would have one of these things here.

------
senthilnayagam
Like Japan, in India people prefer water over paper for cultural reasons, we
dont have bidets but use health faucets

------
hnriot
I wouldn't want a bidet like contraption, it's just massive overkill for
something that humans have turned into a big deal. People seemed to manage for
hundreds of centuries just fine without computerized toilets. Utterly
ridiculous and a good example of the first world having gone crazy.

These are just extortion, taking advantage of a cultural "issue" in a first
world country like Japan.

I can't believe hn are even discussing this.

~~~
teejaygreen
I wouldn't want a car like contraption, it's just massive overkill for
something that humans have turned into a big deal. People seemed to manage for
hundreds of centuries just fine without motorized horses. Utterly ridiculous
and a good example of the first world having gone crazy. These are just
extortion, taking advantage of a cultural "issue" in a first world country
like America.

I can't believe hn are even discussing this.

~~~
hnriot
motorized transportation is clearly an advantage, having water squirted up
your arse is, _at best_ fetishistic, and at worst just a total waste of
time/electricity.

If you can't see the difference then go right ahead and keep discussing this
nonsense. Funny how the rest of the animal kingdom seems to have managed.
Funny how nobody but the Japanese want these? Ever ask why the same nation
that needs soiled panty dispensing vending machines also needs an electric
bidet. See it for what it is, a fetish. I'm sure jonathan swift would have
loved one.

~~~
venus
You obviously have no experience with the devices in question, and your
generalisations about other cultures are ignorant, at best.

Cleaning yourself with water, whether it be your hands or your butt, is not a
"fetish" and I cannot comprehend why you would try to paint it as such. Why
are you so scared of the idea that you'll go to the extreme of trying to
dismiss it as sexual deviancy? Your argument says a lot more about you than it
does about the topic at hand.

And for your information, used pantie vending machines in Japan is basically
an urban myth. There may be some in fetishist sex shops, I'm not sure. I'm
sure you can buy used panties in American fetish sex shops, too.

------
shakoosh99
They are sold in the U.S <http://www.pilotbidet.com/>

------
miahi
I think it's just because the Japanese are really obsessed with cleanliness
and others are not.

~~~
moheeb
I have a shower next to my toilet. Take that, Japanese people!!

~~~
miahi
Do you also have an antibacterial pencil or notebook? Did you buy your car
because it has an antibacterial steering wheel?

[http://articles.latimes.com/1996-11-21/news/mn-1397_1_cleani...](http://articles.latimes.com/1996-11-21/news/mn-1397_1_cleaning-
hygiene-antibacterial)

------
gabchan
The question should also be "why aren't the Chinese all using (at least)
western toilets?" :P

------
saurabhambry
Its not just Japan. These toilets are what you find in most middle class homes
in India too!

------
rco8786
Because they're all in Japan!

------
jseims
I installed two of these in my house. One of the best uses of money ever :)

------
dsr_
If you sit too much and you've got hemorrhoids.... get one. Now.

~~~
gnosis
Better advice might be to move around more and get more fiber in your diet.
Better yet, see a doctor!

~~~
stcredzero
Metamucil is great, and without drawbacks in small doses with enough water. I
will testify that it can solve such problems as discussed above for
programmers. Plus, the extra fiber gives you guts of steel, which can
gracefully deal with almost any rich food.

------
giardini
OK, so what do you do when the lights go out (and the power)?

------
jaseemabid
We have nothing else to talk on HN other than toilets?

~~~
olgeni
Node.js-based toilets?

~~~
jaseemabid
:P

------
frozenport
Are they calibrated to European shapes and sizes?

------
gokulk
They actually have these in Google mountain view

------
nicholas73
I know why I don't want one - the water will splash poop particles over my
butt and legs, and no amount of added dryers is going to convince me that it
is clean.

------
xmstr
I use three seashells. They're the best!

------
numeromancer
This article needs a demo video.

------
bluedanieru
>These toilets, known as “washlets”, have many amazing features - the most
notable of which is they render toilet paper obsolete.

Uh, no they don't. And if the author is using them that way, that's fucking
gross. If they rendered toilet paper obsolete then Japanese bathrooms wouldn't
have toilet paper, or Japanese wouldn't use it anyway, but neither statement
is true. The 'feature' of Japanese toilets is that your asshole _will_ be
clean, regardless of how dire the shit you just took is. And believe me, it's
a wonderful thing, but it doesn't render the paper obsolete.

Pardon the pun, but this author is talking out of his ass.

------
benihana
Because I have no control over which toilets the apartment complex I'm living
in chooses.

