
No, of that I'm innocent - wellboy
https://scobleizer.blog/2017/10/25/no-of-that-im-innocent-sexual-harassment-assault-accusations/
======
astura
I'll preface this with, I don't know who this guy is and this is the first
time I heard anything about this, I am unfamiliar with the allegations.

I am just absolutely shocked by this

>I don’t have employees, I don’t cut checks for investment. None of the women
who came forward were ever in a position where I could make or break their
careers. Sexual Harassment requires that I have such power.

JFC, does anyone actually believe this? This is absolutely... Shocking.
Disturbing... I have no words...

Shouldn't he have consulted with the EEOC before making such a bold statement?

[https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/sexual_harassment.cfm](https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/sexual_harassment.cfm)

>The harasser can be the victim's supervisor, a supervisor in another area, a
co-worker, or someone who is not an employee of the employer, such as a client
or customer.

It just makes it seem like he has no idea what appropriate behavior is at all.
Really takes away from his credibility. Makes me think he's a _total creep_
but thinks it's other people who are the problem.

Also, it stood out to me it seems odd that he used "sexual harassment" as a
proper noun.

~~~
openmosix
The problem is, he is one of the MOST influential people in the tech
ecosystem. Yes, he is a "blogger", but in many cases he could make or break a
product, a startup or a career. A friend of mine startup was noticed (and
acquired) by Facebook because Scoble started blogging about it and that came
to the attention of Zuckerberg.

This guy leaves and breathes in tech conferences, as he is a regular invited
speaker/guest. I'm sure he had to see, read a million of "code of conducts".
The fact he claims "I have no employees... I have no power" is...disgusting.

~~~
zaroth
Where does this line of thinking lead? I mean it's one thing to limit any
attempts at intimacy in the workplace, but if you're just 'influential enough'
then you expand this definition to include anyone in the entire tech sector?
This seems clearly illogical.

Again, if there was assault it's a totally different matter. But sexual
harassment is a lower bar specifically because of the idea no one should have
to work in a hostile work environment. You can't create a hostile work
environment if you're not actually working with someone or exerting direct
influence over their career?

~~~
TarpitCarnivore
> You can't create a hostile work environment if you're not actually working
> with someone or exerting direct influence over their career?

Quinn's story was not at a 'work environment' so does it have any less impact?
Why are you letting him adjust the narrative to define what he feels is
harassment?

~~~
openmosix
Let's also not forget that it was a conference. A very laid back-camping kind
of conference, but a conference. In today's standards - where you can't join a
project or visit/talk to a conference without accepting a CoC - this would
still be considered an extension of the workplace, or at least be classified
as a "professional setting". We are not talking rocket science: if you are in
a professional setting, getting overly drunk, make out in public and then
proceeding to random groping - is NOT ok. You can have him redefine the
narrative however he wants, he still a serial sexual offender.

~~~
zaroth
Read back to the context of my question. Two drunk people coming together to
"make out" at a camp out -- this is a "conference" like Burning Man is a
conference -- if this is in and of itself is creating a "hostile work
environment" I think that words are losing their meaning.

I don't really care what kind of narrative Scoble is trying to make. I have no
knowledge of the specifics of his situation or his encounters, and couldn't
care less about passing judgement on _him_.

But I was very curious about this idea that, which seems to be stated
throughout this thread, someone can become so influential in an industry that
any non-professional contact they have _industry-wide_ could be sexual
harassment.

And again, and again, I have to say, if there was _assault_ that is just a
completely different issue entirely.

~~~
rcade
I don't know where you're getting the idea it's not a conference. Here's a
link to a photo set from Foo Camp 2010, where the incident occurred:

[https://www.flickr.com/photos/deanputney/sets/72157624362235...](https://www.flickr.com/photos/deanputney/sets/72157624362235774/)

Burning Man it ain't.

------
TarpitCarnivore
> I don’t have employees, I don’t cut checks for investment. None of the women
> who came forward were ever in a position where I could make or break their
> careers. Sexual Harassment requires that I have such power.

This is an incredibly disgusting and miss-guided view of sexual harassment.

~~~
joshuaheard
Not really. I'm not an expert on Sexual Harassment law, but it is my
understanding there are 2 general kinds of sexual harassment. One is where
there is such pervasive harassment of a sexual nature that it constitutes a
"hostile work environment". For instance if firefighters put up centerfolds
throughout the firehouse. This does not seem to be alleged here.

The other is where a person in a superior position uses that position in order
to gain sexual favors from a subordinate. This is like the Weinstein
allegations where he demanded they shower with him or they would never work in
Hollywood again. That seems to be the type of harassment he is defending
against. After reading the article, I didn't find anything in there that fit
either of these definitions.

~~~
wellboy
That's new to me that it has to be in a work environment. What about parties,
clubs, outdoors anywhere?

------
Mz
_None of the women who came forward were ever in a position where I could make
or break their careers. Sexual Harassment requires that I have such power._

This is not true and it does not look good for him to say it:

 _The legal and social understanding of sexual harassment, however, varies by
culture.

In the context of US employment, the harasser can be the victim's supervisor,
a supervisor in another area, a co-worker, or someone who is not an employee
of the employer, such as a client or customer, and harassers or victims can be
of any gender._

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_harassment](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_harassment)

But, I do generally agree that two wrongs don't make a right. I am pretty
appalled to hear that he had an online text-based affair with a woman who
outed him to his wife for apparently vindictive reasons.

I don't know how we move this discussion forward into constructive territory.
I see this at least partly through the lens of massive social changes
disrupting the rules and neither side having a good play book. I challenge
commenters here to find something constructive to say and avoid just wallowing
in the mud here.

~~~
dsp1234
It's incredibly difficult to talk about this specific post in a constructive
way without wallowing in the mud.

The content makes child-like arguments[0] and contradictory statements[1] to
the point where it feels like an unstable foundation to have a conversation.
It's like trying to have a debate where neither side agrees with the
foundational logic of the other sides arguments.

[0] - "None of the women who came forward were ever in a position where I
could make or break their careers. Sexual Harassment requires that I have such
power"

[1] - "Perhaps because they felt peer pressure to join the #MeToo bandwagon,
perhaps because they felt slighted for other reasons. I won’t speculate on
their motives."

~~~
Mz
True. That's why I issued a _challenge._ I realize it is a difficult thing I
am asking of people.

------
klint
Does anyone else find it bizarre that he writes "Quinn Norton, by her own
account, physically accosted me[...] While it is admirable that Quinn wanted
to defend the honor of another woman and the sanctity of marriage, perhaps she
should have done so using the resources of the conference, or at a minimum in
a manner that didn’t lead to her assaulting me," given that Norton's actual
account is that he struck him because he put he grabbed her and put his arm
around her?

"Most telling however is that she makes it clear that her assault of me was
premeditated."

There's nothing about her account that suggests this.

~~~
justboxing
> given that Norton's actual account is that she struck him because he grabbed
> her and put his arm around her?

Nope. According to Quinn, on her medium post, Scoble put one hand on her
breast, then a reach around, ending in a butt grab.

> And then, without any more warning, Scoble was on me. I felt one hand on my
> breast and his arm reaching around and grabbing my butt. Scoble is
> considerably bigger than I am, and I realized quickly I wasn’t going to be
> able to push him away. Meanwhile, the people around just watched, in what I
> can only imagine was stunned shock. I got a hand free and used a palm strike
> to the base of his chin to knock him back. It worked, he flew back and
> struggled to get his feet under him. I watched his feet carefully for that
> moment. He was unbalanced from the alcohol and I realized if he reached for
> me again I could pull him forward, bounce his face off my knee, then drive
> it into the ground. (I knew this move because it had been done to me, then
> the martial arts expert who did it picked me up and apologetically showed me
> how to do it.)

Source: Robert Scoble and Me ( @quinnnorton on medium.com ) =>
[https://medium.com/@quinnnorton/robert-scoble-and-
me-9b14ee9...](https://medium.com/@quinnnorton/robert-scoble-and-
me-9b14ee92fffb)

------
DiabloD3
I think this can be best described as "sinking the boat just to kill the
captain."

In the interest of being the devil's advocate: if he is telling the truth,
this looks very bad for several of the women that accused him of sexual
harassment, and tried to inflate his cheating on his wife into something much
worse.

I mean, this sounds a lot like how some women accuse guys of rape just to
cause harm to them, instead of a rape actually having occurred. Such actions
are harmful to women, harmful to society as a whole, and actively work against
the ideals of feminism and make it harder for feminists to have a meaningful
dialog with both men and women alike.

If his version of events is even remotely true, merely saying "two wrongs
don't make a right" isn't even scratching the surface, and indicates a very
large problem in the tech industry community.

I have no clue if they are true, or how true they are, but I believe that
because he disregarded his lawyer's advice and made a statement, there is at
least a little bit of truth here.

~~~
ajross
> I mean, this sounds a lot like how some women accuse guys of rape just to
> cause harm to them, instead of a rape actually having occurred.

It was deliberately crafted to be so. So if we want to apply some science to
our guessing: what is the fraction of real harrassment incidents to
fraudulently reported ones in our society?

You can "some women" and "because he disgregarded" your way around the
disembling, but the truth is that if you really want to guess based on the
evidence at hand, the guy is probably guilty.

~~~
codefined
Hell, studies have said anywhere between 2% to 90%[0] of rape reports are
false, but telling that a rape is false / true is _incredibly_ hard due to it
basically being "he says" vs. "she says".

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape#Rumne...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape#Rumney_.282006.29)

~~~
DanBC
For clarity: the larger more rigorous studies put it much closer to the 2%
end.

~~~
asdfasfhretwt
-

------
minimaxir
This is _not_ a dupe of his previous apology (which has been deleted). This is
something else entirely that will be talked about years later.

To give you an idea of what it’s about, it starts with “I have rejected my
lawyer’s advice to not make a statement”

~~~
jonknee
> This is something else entirely that will be talked about years later.

I don't think he's nearly famous enough for anything he says to be talked
about years later. He'll most likely be forgotten, there are plenty of other
pitchmen in the Valley to take his role.

~~~
zimpenfish
> I don't think he's nearly famous enough for anything he says to be talked
> about years later.

I would put money on this being used in future education as an example of why
you should listen to your lawyers when they say "don't make a statement".
Because it is a classic.

------
athenot
> There are a great many things in Seitz’s conversations I would prefer never
> be public, not because I did wrong by Seitz, but because where I have said I
> don’t really care about privacy online, I don’t feel that exposing my sexual
> fantasies or desires online as a text based “sex tape” is something anyone
> needs to see.

This part caught my eye as contradictory. Privacy doesn't matter unless it's
<something I care about>? I think that's precisely why privacy matters, and
everyone has a different list of things that matter to them.

~~~
LambdaComplex
I interpreted that as meaning he generally doesn't care about his own privacy
online, not privacy in general

------
pwinnski
Everything about this reeks of nastiness. I'm sure it hurts to have your past
wrongs put under a microscope publicly. I remember the days after my divorce,
and the pain and shame were excruciating. The only thing that would have been
worse would have been if I'd denied the obvious truths, minimized my own
misbehaviors, and relied on self-righteousness to assuage pangs of guilt.

Sadly, Scoble has not (yet?) come to that realization. I hope he stops talking
long enough to realize his own pain, as excruciating as it is, isn't the story
here. It's the pain he caused to others, and is continuing to cause with his
self-righteousness.

This isn't he-said/she-said. It's he-said/they-said, where many witness
corroborate the other side of stories he tries to reframe. When even his own
false reframing of stories makes him sound like a troubled terrible actor,
that ought to have been a sign to him to not hit publish.

~~~
zimpenfish
> I hope he stops talking long enough to realize his own pain, as excruciating
> as it is, isn't the story here.

To be fair, if he had that amount of empathy and self-reflection, he wouldn't
be in this situation.

~~~
grzm
Let's be fair and hopeful that he may be able to come to such.

------
hartator
> Every act of infidelity, every time I have watched an adult video online,

How watching porn equates to cheat on your wife? Very weird moral compass.

~~~
cisanti
He's a man down right now and probably very emotional. Just a guess, but
should have listened to his lawyer.

Also, U.S seem to have strange views on what is sexual assault. I don't know
who is quilt or who is lying, but reading some of them are things I would
avoid women over the ocean all together.

~~~
astura
What do you mean exactly as "strange views on what is sexual assult?"

Are you getting it confused with sexual harassment? which we are also talking
about in this thread.

~~~
cisanti
I meant the whole idea that regret can be rape. Also the fact that if you have
power, everything can be seen as a sexual assault

~~~
SauciestGNU
Regret is not ever rape. I question from what sources you are getting your
information if you believe so. What can happen is that someone who was too
intoxicated/incapacitated to give consent to sexual activity can make a
complaint because sexual activity occurred without voluntary, freely given
consent.

If you have power, many things can be considered harassment, which is
different than assault. It's similar to the reasoning behind prohibiting
psychological therapists from engaging in sexual acts with their patients.

Really, it's pretty simple. Make sure a person can give consent. Don't abuse
your status to obtain sex. Don't rape.

------
sharksauce
_I have rejected my lawyer’s advice to not make a statement_

Oh this always works out well.

~~~
emodendroket
It feels like it would have been smart to have at least asked his lawyer to
review his statement.

~~~
astura
If he wanted to give a statement he should have hired a PR firm to help him
write it.

------
hartator
> in a spirit of healing

It's kind of interesting that his focus is still to "heal" himself. So self
centered in this fake apology.

------
KVFinn
>I don’t have employees, I don’t cut checks for investment. None of the women
who came forward were ever in a position where I could make or break their
careers. Sexual Harassment requires that I have such power.

Not a great sign to open your defense by arguing about definitions rather than
factual claims.

~~~
grzm
You're right, it's not a great sign. Given the nature of the topic, while
unfortunate, I think it's useful to have a set of definitions to be working
from to ensure readers understand what he means when he uses certain words or
phrases. One can disagree with the definitions and disagree that the rest of
what he says follows from his definitions, but I understand where he's coming
from in trying to make clear what he's saying. Above anything else, people do
generally have a desire to be understood, and at the very least not be
misunderstood.

 _Please_ do not read this as justifying any particular behavior. I just think
it's really important to at least try to understand each other even when we
may vehemently disagree. We can't do that if don't know what each other means
when using the language we do. Looking through the comments on this topic, I
see at least some of the disagreement coming from people talking past each
other or not using words in the same way.

------
itbeho
This person needs to get immediate professional help on several levels
(mental, legal, family counseling). He is a train wreck for his family.

------
DonHopkins
On his Facebook page, Robert Scoble wrote:

[https://i.imgur.com/kH6DsGA.png](https://i.imgur.com/kH6DsGA.png)

"Robert Scoble: Andrew Brackin I have NOT deleted ANY comments. They may have
deleted them. I did not."

That was a bald faced lie. He's deleted a whole hell of a lot of comments,
along with his original non-apology-apology.

[https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/20/robert-scoble-has-
allegedl...](https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/20/robert-scoble-has-allegedly-
continued-to-sexually-harass-women-after-going-sober/)

"Update: Scoble has since deleted his original apology and now posted a
lengthy rebuttal to the reporting done by TechCrunch and other publications on
his personal site."

------
TazeTSchnitzel
tl;dr:

“[…] I have rejected my lawyer’s advice to not make a statement […] None of
the women who came forward were ever in a position where I could make or break
their careers. Sexual Harassment requires that I have such power. […] Each of
the women who have come forward used grains of truth to sell false narrative.
Perhaps because they felt peer pressure to join the #MeToo bandwagon, perhaps
because they felt slighted for other reasons. I won’t [sic] speculate on their
motives. […] And to some extent [I] did take advantage of [her]; […] ”

------
benmmurphy
scobles refutation of quins allegation is a motte and bailey argument. quinn
has accused him of grabbing her breast but instead of addressing this
allegation he instead has redirected the argument to him making out with the
other woman.

------
sjs382
It's incredibly telling when someone makes a defense and comes off
_significantly worse_ as a result.

He should have listened to his lawyer, but I'm glad he didn't.

------
stillsut
I wonder if he asked any women to watch him shower...while wearing Google
glasses.

------
chr4004
And of course he has to plug his new business at the end.

------
salqadri
This issue isn't just plaguing the tech industry. This is an issue affecting
the entire Western society, from Tech and Entertainment industries to even
religious institutions. Its time at last for society to realign itself. But
lets keep in mind that while such matters should be brought to public
attention, lets also let the jury be the ones to deliver the verdicts.

------
blfr
Why is it relevant to HN? Who is this? Were the original accusations posted
here?

It's also rather pointless to nitpick legal definitions of sexual harassment
when the guy starts by mentioning he rejected his lawyer's advice.

~~~
grzm
It's Robert Scoble. From Wikipedia:

> _Robert Scoble … is an American blogger, technical evangelist, and author.
> Scoble is best known for his blog, Scobleizer, which came to prominence
> during his tenure as a technology evangelist at Microsoft. He later worked
> for Fast Company as a video blogger, and then Rackspace and the Rackspace-
> sponsored community site Building 43 promoting breakthrough technology and
> startups. He is a partner at Transformation Group and a noted evangelist in
> the immersive media industries._

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Scoble](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Scoble)

There have been discussions related to this here recently. One is
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15519902](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15519902)

Other comments can be found using the search:
[https://hn.algolia.com/?query=scoble&sort=byDate&prefix&page...](https://hn.algolia.com/?query=scoble&sort=byDate&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=comment)

------
jimmydddd
As a non s-valley person, this whole issue seems very strange to me. Work and
family/kids takes a lot of time. And tech people are always saying they work
these grueling 100 hour work weeks. Not sure how these folks have the time to
be out drinking and flirting so much. :-)

------
sky_rw
With the massive amount of prostitution in Silicon Valley I am constantly
shocked that people of prominence have such little self control that they seek
extra-marital affairs in such obviously stupid places. The behavior he
describes here sounds less like harassment and more like chronic self
destruction and purposeful career suicide. Hell, writing this article at all
is self flagellation. Baffling.

------
madmax108
Ouch, this might very well have been drafted by a PR team. He even manages to
pitch in his new company in there. Such non-apology apologies have sadly
become the norm in the valley.

All it takes is to understand that everyone's idea of what constitutes
"harassment" is different, and to behave (or at least try) at a global minima.
It's sad that he realizes that his moral compass is broken, yet seems to
relish making the same "mistake" over and over again.

~~~
emodendroket
If it was drafted by a PR team it was not a good one.

------
Invictus0
Without making any moral judgments here, the guy has a valid point in that
it's important to make a distinction between cheating in a relationship and
sexual harassment. The former is a non-illegal, personal matter, and the
latter is a criminal matter. I think most people probably aren't interested in
making this distinction and would prefer to indiscriminately shun either kind
of person, but this the importance of this lies in the #MeToo thing becoming a
witchhunt. Sexual harassment/assault/rape is different that many other crimes
in that mere _accusations_ , convictions be damned, can completely ruin an
otherwise innocent person's life. I could definitely imagine the #MeToo tag
being used to shame someone, because it _has_ reached witchhunt proportions.
See the recent claims about H.W. Bush.

I claim to know nothing about what actually happened between this guy and
these women, and all of the armchair judges here that are jumping to
conclusions ought to realize that they, too, know nothing.

~~~
DanBC
Lots of sexual harassment is not criminal. (It's still, obviously, no
acceptable).

~~~
sadlkfieiujjd
My problem now, what makes me irate, is that the #metoo tag embodies this idea
that, because so many women have been silent victims of harassment and
assault, that any claim to harassment or assault somehow must be trustworthy
because it is being openly stated.

I was listening to a program on NPR the other day, and the guest was somehow
bemoaning the fact that when individuals make claims of being victimized, they
are met with a reserved skepticism rather than accepting support.

What was totally missing from this discussion--what the host failed to
challenge on--was that what this guest was proposing in fact was abandoning an
innocent until proven guilty assumption in favor of a guilty until proven
innocent assumption, which is dangerous and immoral. It _is_ appropriate to be
skeptical, because such a claim is very serious and potentially damaging. And
such claims should be held up to rigorous scrutiny. I say this not without
empathy for victims, being a victim of sexual assault myself, but as someone
who has also seen how vicious and destructive these witchhunts can be.

I have a colleague who was wrongly accused of sexual assault (I know because I
was essentially there and saw what actually transpired), and I've seen how
completely destructive it can be personally and career-wise.

I also have been accused, through not-so-veiled insinuations (of course, not
being explicit allowed her to sidestep any challenges, because there's nothing
to actually challenge), of harassment by a vindictive ex who was jealous of my
new relationship, and have seen what happens when colleagues, who you thought
were friends, blindly accept these sorts of claims without looking into both
sides of the story.

It's horrifying to watch this happen, and to me only undermines real victims
by casting a shadow of doubt over their claims from others.

My experience is that this issue is far darker than anyone wants to
acknowledge, and as much as there is problems with sexual assault, there are
also problems with vindictive slander capitalizing on people's prejudices, to
avoid personal responsibility. The horrific stories of Harvey Weinstein have
turned into a witch-hunt against men that is equally horrifying en masse.

------
oh_sigh
I have no knowledge of this issue specifically, but more generally, if you're
even a somewhat public figure, I think the best course of action is to have a
discreet 24/7 bodycam rolling to record all of your interactions. We're at a
point where your career and social network can be torpedoed by anyone merely
making a claim on social media. No police, no day in court, just allegations
are enough.

~~~
TarpitCarnivore
So you're take away from this is that he, Robert Scoble, is in more need of
protection via body cam than any of the women who came out against him?

~~~
oh_sigh
No, my take away is that mere accusations, regardless of legitimacy, can
destroy your career and reputation.

Assuming you didn't do these evil deeds, having video or audio proof(if legal
in your jurisdiction) is really the only way to counter them.

Otherwise, what do you say? "No, I didn't rape/sexually assault this person".
The accusation alone is salacious enough that a mere denial isn't going to
change anyone's mind.

And I would say that the women's accusations, if true, would be bolstered if
they had video/audio evidence of it.

~~~
vkou
> Assuming you didn't do these evil deeds, having video or audio proof(if
> legal in your jurisdiction) is really the only way to counter them.

Well, the traditional solution to this is to just cross-examine the accusers
about the cut of their skirt, whether or not they had any idea what they were
doing when you invited them to the hotel room, how many casual sexual partners
they had, and all sorts of other bullshit that's completely irrelevant to
whether or not they were raped or harassed.

It tends to work pretty well for people who are actually guilty, it should
work even better for the innocent.

~~~
oh_sigh
Do you have an actual point relating to what I said? Yes, courts were and
continue to be sexist. I never argued against that, and I don't see how it is
at all relevant to this conversation at this point.

If you are a public figure, and you never sexually assaulted anyone, yet
multiple people were accusing you in public of doing so, how (if at all) would
you defend yourself?

~~~
vkou
Sue them for libel. As a public figure, I am almost certainly able to bear the
burdens of protracted litigation then they are.

(It's one of the reasons why people think twice about accusing the guilty.)

~~~
oh_sigh
From "Elements of Libel and Slander"[1]

> First, the plaintiff must prove that the defendant made a false and
> defamatory statement concerning the plaintiff.

How do you prove that you didn't sexually assault someone 5 years ago? Gee, a
recording of all of your interactions would come in handy here.

[1] [http://injury.findlaw.com/torts-and-personal-
injuries/elemen...](http://injury.findlaw.com/torts-and-personal-
injuries/elements-of-libel-and-slander.html)

~~~
vkou
Well, you could always ask Woody Allen.

[https://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/02/01/an-open-
letter-...](https://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/02/01/an-open-letter-from-
dylan-farrow/)

~~~
oh_sigh
Again, not sure what your point is

