
Inside DuckDuckGo, Google's Tiniest, Fiercest Competitor - marban
http://www.fastcolabs.com/3026698/inside-duckduckgo-googles-tiniest-fiercest-competitor?partner
======
tosseraccount
Duck duck is barely usable ... but they don't spy on you. The !g and !b
commands make it my first choice. If the results aren't getting what you want,
try the search on google or bing. _IF_ you don't mind Sergy Brin or Bill Gates
tracking you.

I still think there's room for a search engine that supports boolean(ish?)
operations like AND, OR , NOT and NEAR. Providing links directly to the source
and not a redirect to the search engine company would be a really good thing.

A cookie-less search engine would be double plus good.

~~~
josteink
_Duck duck is barely usable_

On the contrary, I find Google barely usable these days, with everything
covered in layers and layers of horrible bloat, random UX mess of the week and
constant pestering about G+.

DDG is nice and clean, has features Google is (still) lacking and just gets me
the results. I may resort to other search-engines (like Google) once a week or
so, but at this point, there's no way I'm going back to having Google as
default.

That's just not worth it.

~~~
cpncrunch
Google's interface seems to have improved recently, now that they have removed
the duplicate left-hand column and put the options on top.

As for search results: I tried DDG again last week, and was shocked by the
poor quality of results compared to google, bing or yandex. Search for "html
table tag" and you'll see no w3schools or MDN results. Instead a lot of other,
crappier sites. Google, yandex and bing all show w3schools and MDN near the
top, so DDG must be filtering these results (which is ironic, given that they
say they don't put you in a "filter bubble").

~~~
untog
I wouldn't consider w3schools a good search result, ever:

[http://www.w3fools.com/](http://www.w3fools.com/)

~~~
cpncrunch
Why do you say that? (and please don't say you read it on w3fools)

In my own experience, w3schools is the quickest way of getting the information
I want, which I guess is why it is at the top of google. I know it isn't cool
to like w3schools, but then I'm not a cool programmer.

~~~
DanBC
Lots of people complain about W3Schools. Some of those people say the Mozilla
pages are a bit clunky.

Seems like a nice passive income project - man pages for HTML / CSS aimed at
beginners but with advanced information too.

I'm surprised it hasn't already been done. Perhaps it has and I just don't
know the URL.

~~~
nostrademons
[http://html5index.org/](http://html5index.org/)

------
pielud
The killer feature for me with ddg (as a programmer) is the ! searches for
documentation:

    
    
      !php strstr
      !python os.makedirs
      !pypi requests
      !js String
    

etc.

This gives you a single search bar for _all_ documentation, which is amazing.

edit: formatting

~~~
wila
That's absolutely fabulous. I'm a DDG user already, but didn't knew about this
trick. A brilliant time saver.

Thanks for sharing.

~~~
pielud
Here are all of the supported ! searches:

[https://duckduckgo.com/bang.html](https://duckduckgo.com/bang.html)

or just search ddg for !bang

------
zacinbusiness
I've been a happy DDG user for about 3 years now. I initially started not
because of privacy, but because I think the home page and search results are
much cleaner and more minimalist. And I've told myself that if Google ever
produces a search result that I couldn't find just as easily with DuckDuckGo
then I will switch back. So far that hasn't happened.

Now I use DuckDuckGo as my home page and it's my only search engine. And the
search results just keep getting better and better.

~~~
crassus
Google doodles are distracting. I don't need to see a clever flash game
commemorating something-or-other every time I open a new tab when I'm working,
thanks.

~~~
vacri
The games aren't flash, and they don't show up on either the search bar in
your browser or the search results page.

------
mrfusion
I've actually been turning to reddit for a lot of my searches. Yes, you read
that right, reddit.

I found that a lot of times when I was looking for general advice from other
people (recent examples: how to treat dandruff, how to start a garden) I
actually get really well thought out answers from real people who have done
the same things. And I know they're not trying to sell me anything or just get
page views.

Doing those same searches on google just returns vapid SEO filled articles
from ehow and wikihow, and those kind of places, pretty worthless.

~~~
rwl4
I do the same but with one twist for better results. I go to Google and search
like this:

    
    
      site:reddit.com start a garden
    

Google is a much better Reddit search than Reddit is.

------
bsbechtel
I reached out to Gabriel a few times while living in the Southeast PA region
for entrepreneurial related questions. He always got back to me within a day
or so...incredibly helpful and nice. I switched to DDG a while back, and while
it took a little bit to get used to the changes, I use it for 80% of my
searches now. The only way they will improve is by us using them more and more
often. You can complain about how they aren't as good as Google, but that
doesn't help them improve. Getting involved in the DDG community and setting
them as your main search engine does.

~~~
JunkDNA
I'll second this. Gabriel is an extremely nice guy. I approached him over 5
years ago for info about the Philly startup scene and he wrote me a huge,
detailed email that I'm sure he didn't really have the time to write.

I switched my default search engine to Duck Duck Go a few years ago mainly
because of that interaction. I still need to fall back on the g! shortcut a
lot, but search quality has improved quite a bit over the years. I like
supporting a hometown startup that exists outside the Bay Area bubble.

------
mihok
I switched over to DuckDuckGo as my default search provider, for about half a
year. It was alright for a while... but eventually I would search for things
on both DDG and Google and realized how much I was missing... Sadly I've moved
back to Google since then.

Another issue that kept coming up for me, was their lack of keyboard controls
on search result pages. Although, this isn't really as relevant to most users
I would speculate

~~~
GhotiFish
this is my experience as well. I've got two keywords set up for firefox, g for
ddg, and go for google.

I type in "go blahblahblah" a whole lot more nowadays.

------
6cxs2hd6
> We give everyone their own dev environment that's a full stack of
> DuckDuckGo. It's a full machine. Some people are using eMacs.

Is this like how foreign words get remapped into Japanese syllables? Fast
Company tech writers only speak Apple? _chuckles_

------
sytelus
DuckDuckGo does not have its own index. They are pretty much layer over Bing
plus some customizations for query parsing and head queries for trusted
sources which they do index. If Bing decided to block DDG tomorrow, they will
be toast. The only impressive thing for me about DDG is that they are able to
turn privacy thing in to marketing for geeks and get tiny trickle of traffic
to stay alive in hope someone would buy them out.

------
hoggle
As a quacking/ducking web developer, results often are more relevant than with
google these days. If I'm not happy with what I find through duckduckgo I just
add a quick !g and skim the google results - best of both worlds.

------
ck2
I applaud the DDG spirit but without their own crawling data their future is
doomed.

If their data sources ever cut them off, it's over.

They need to build their own crawlers like gigablast.

~~~
ithkuil
[https://duckduckgo.com/duckduckbot](https://duckduckgo.com/duckduckbot) ?

~~~
ck2
They aren't collecting much if anything.

------
ithkuil
I'm impressed, it works quite well.

However, just to put DuckDuckGo's 4 Mqpd into a broader context:

Google 2013: 5.9 Gqpd Bing 2012: 3.1 Gqpd

Not to put DuckDuckGo down or anything, but it's important to understand what
a >1000x difference in scale means, in terms of operating costs and
scalability issues. For example, for a single person is very easy to get hold
of $10k but it's extremely difficult to get $10M. (I'm not actually interested
in money, it's just an example measurement unit, and particular range, that
people are familiar with).

Sources: [http://www.statisticbrain.com/google-
searches/](http://www.statisticbrain.com/google-searches/)
[http://leaderswest.com/2012/07/02/how-bings-search-
increased...](http://leaderswest.com/2012/07/02/how-bings-search-
increased-7-from-last-year/)

~~~
gkya
Is Gqpd = giga queries per day?

------
Aoyagi
I use either DDG or [https://startpage.com/](https://startpage.com/) . I still
have to go to Google about once or twice month though...

------
_mhr_
What's repeatedly surprised me is how I'll get results from DuckDuckGo and
think that, "You know, I bet Google would have given better/more relevant
results." And then I'm proven wrong! When DuckDuckGo gives nonrelevant
results, Google often isn't any better, and when DuckDuckGo gives relevant
results, sometimes they're often as relevant or more relevant than Google. I
switched cold turkey a few months back, and I'm very pleased with how usable
it is. I also really like the !word features, it's better than Google in that
respect. I should mention that it's easier to do math in Google because Google
infers more (such as inferring parens in an expression like: "2 + 2) * 4",
outputting "16". DuckDuckGo can't handle that at the moment.

------
nvk
Nice to see the internals of other companies like us. We love tiny team sizes
at Coinkite.com.

It's incredible how much you can accomplish with very very few focussed
makers.

We created our own rack mounted HSM, our own Hardware POS payment terminals,
and all the payment web structure. Answer to support and automated the supply
chain.

Stop hiring!

------
atmosx
DDG is good but not for non-english context. I mean, comparing to google for
Greek text search is laughable at best.

That said, I hope the grow strong so I can use their engine.

------
dredmorbius
I made two attempts to convert to DDG, the first nearly two years ago, then,
successfully, this past June. And in large part, it's working better than
Google. Searches are fast, they're unfiltered, the !bang syntax is great,
privacy is respected, and overall site weight and load is much preferable to
Google. While I don't always find what I'm looking for, switching to !g often
doesn't turn up what I was hoping for either -- sometimes it's just search
refinement that you need.

All in all, I'm happy with it. This after sixteen years of Google use.

------
dublinben
I've been using DDG for a few years now. I recommend it to anyone who will
listen, and really hope they continue to grow. It's been fascinating to watch
Google copy their zero-click results.

------
Beliavsky
Can't you just browse and search "incognito" with Google Chrome?

~~~
bduerst
Not quite - you still have tracking in Google Chrome that links by IP.

You can compile Chromium with the tracking flags off, and then search in
incognito.

------
iqster
I have lots of respect for the founder. One of his blog posts motivated me to
buy my own rack + datacenter class equipment. So much fun!!

~~~
jonalmeida
Link?

I need motivation.

~~~
iqster
Here ya go:

[http://www.gabrielweinberg.com/blog/2011/12/duckduckgo-
used-...](http://www.gabrielweinberg.com/blog/2011/12/duckduckgo-used-to-run-
out-of-my-basement.html)

Tip from experience: Really think about logistics before diving in. Racks
(even quarter racks) are heavy!! Data center equipment is also noisy. You
eventually also hit limits on household electric circuits. It is fun though :)

------
tzz
How does DDG work? Do they have their own algorithm to rank the web pages?
What makes their algorithm better?

~~~
Pwnguinz
Behind the scenes, DDG uses Yandex and Bing to power its search results. It
also does its own crawling (however, I'm not sure to what extent).

Their algorithm isn't necessarily better, but if you were to just give it a
try, you'll notice their 'Instant Answers' section at the top of a search that
usually gets you exactly what you want without having to click on a single
result (much like how certain search queries on Google will return you an
instant answer).

------
marban
Quite surprised about the humongous boost following the Surveillance
revelations
[[https://duckduckgo.com/traffic.html](https://duckduckgo.com/traffic.html)]

~~~
antr
If surveillance are users' concerns, I don't understand how some users believe
DDG is "exempt" from US legislators, untouchable by warrants and NSA
tapping... Will DDG respect user's privacy yes, but to default to DDG for
"surveillance fears" just says so much about who uses it.

~~~
hdevalence
I think that one can be concerned about privacy enough to choose to use a
service which does not log queries, without thinking that this choice makes
them immune to surveillance by state actors.

~~~
bduerst
Does DDG not log queries?

You would think they would, in order to make the service better.

~~~
sroerick
Donttrack.us Dontbubble.us

~~~
bduerst
Ad Retargeting != Query or Server Logs

------
wil421
Most of the time when I have tried DDG the results I got back looked like spam
I would get if I clicked on the 3 or 4 result page from a Google search.

------
myared
DDG gives me freedom to better craft my queries, and it's won my browser's
default search engine for years because of the bang syntax. I can !anything
and it almost always gets me what I need. I still !g and !b quite a bit, but I
do so deliberately based on what I'm looking for (and I do think about whether
I want the search affecting my Google Now results).

------
nnkh
My main concern with DDG is its founders history.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_Database](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_Database)

His past isn't exactly one I'd look for if I wanted a trustworthy search
operator, I think.

------
adrianwaj
Is there a ddg cheat sheet? How can one make it the default search in Chrome's
url field?

------
chidevguy
The only reason I still use Google over DuckDuckGo is the keyword suggestions
as I'm typing. I find that to be very useful when I'm searching for something
but not quite sure how to phrase it. I would for sure switch over if DDG added
that!

~~~
cbr
This would require keeping logs of searches. You could anonymize the logs, but
a lot of people like that DDG keeps as little as possible.

------
machbio
Redirecting to this page - [http://www.fastcodesign.com/3026431/this-company-
wants-to-ma...](http://www.fastcodesign.com/3026431/this-company-wants-to-
makeover-your-sock-drawer?partner)

~~~
marban
not for me?

~~~
mradmin
I have no idea what's going on. First time I viewed the link, it took me to
nice laundry (after skipping the ad). The second time I viewed the link, it
took me to the correct article. :/

~~~
ZoF
It was a click-jacked link; Mods switch the links for the actual source
occasionally if one is available.

------
_mayo
Ah, I'm getting linked to an article Nice Laundry, not duck duck go.

------
wuliwong
It is so cool to see them growing like this. Gabe, the founder is a great guy.
When I lived in Philly, he would have periodic hack nights in that office,
open to all. I met some cool people there.

------
Siecje
Does DuckDuckGo have image search?

I don't like that when I press tab I go to the search field I would like to go
to the first link. Also I type in YouTube and the first link is for the
Wikipedia entry.

------
fredgrott
hmm competitor? Does Sprint call one of its MVOs Virgin a competitor?

------
jonalmeida
I'm another happy DDG user a few years now. They sent me a bunch of stickers,
and I've been putting them up in my university, work places & friend's
laptops.

------
dandroid17
Seems like DuckDuckGo went down. Not loading for me.

~~~
jaryd
All systems are go over here. Was the site not loading at all, or just loading
slowly for you?

------
frigg
How does DuckDuckGo make money to support itself?

~~~
_delirium
Syndicated Yahoo/Bing ads at the top, and affiliate links on the eBay + Amazon
results: [https://duck.co/help/company/advertising-and-
affiliates](https://duck.co/help/company/advertising-and-affiliates)

------
hissworks
This article ended abruptly.

~~~
jarofgreen
Serious point, it actually took me a couple of seconds to make sure I hadn't
missed a "Next Page" link. I'm still not sure I haven't.

(edit to add) I read somewhere that the first Google home page just had the
search box on, and people used to wait because they thought it hadn't finished
loading. So they added the copyright notice as a footer just so people would
realise it had.

------
tiatia
I prefer ixquick.com

------
fiorix
DDG is excellent.

------
DrinkWater
lol at the pic with the server setup

------
davidpaulkrug
Now that's the company Facebook should have bought.... Not Whatsapp....

~~~
AznHisoka
The unique advantage of DDG is its privacy. If FB were to buy it, most/all DDG
users would flock elsewhere, so what would e the point?

------
tosseraccount
Is there some "sociopath" cron demon on HN that downvotes posts based on being
"too popular" or "responded too quickly"?

Edit: it appears to be a "karma balancer" that docks points in a thread if it
measures participation as unbalanced. That'd be my guess.

