
Ask HN: US Visa for foreign founders after first seed - CCing
Hi guys,<p>I&#x27;m working on a project and I&#x27;m raising about $ 100k from some friends and angels(some are based in US)<p>I&#x27;m a european citizen and some investors want that I move to silicon valley(and I&#x27;m ok with that), but how can I legally do ? what visa options do I have ?<p>I&#x27;ve heard of E-2 Visa[1] but I don&#x27;t have any money in cash that I can invest into my business.<p>I know that i should hear a lawyer but I want first understand what my options are(and if I can use my startup IP as asset)<p>How do you have done ?<p>Thank you.<p>[1] https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;E-2_visa
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scrollaway
I'm a European founder as well. You certainly have extra options with your
status; however, one option you seem to be dismissing is simply _not_ to move.

Silicon Valley is extremely expensive. You'll burn through a large chunk of
your $100k on moving costs and rent and waste a ton of time -- Changing your
home continent takes several weeks of preparation and can take several more
weeks of toll in energy and post-move management).

IMHO, from your post it doesn't sound like you have the cash to afford this
_and_ found your startup. Don't do it; you don't have to, that'll give you a
huge advantage.

~~~
CCing
This is not an option...investors want that I move

~~~
mdekkers
My advice, FWIW, is to really think hard about what others here are saying as
well - don't move just now. Do your investors have a really good reason for
you to go there that is provably critical to the success of your startup? Many
of these people just want to keep their investment where they can see it. As
someone who has moved countries frequently (now on my 8th) I can tell you that
it is _massive_ investment in terms of time and money, both of which you are
probably better off putting in your business. The USA and SV aren't going
anywhere, they will still be here in another year or so (at least, i'd like to
think so) when you are past the helter-skelter startup days, and will be in a
position to create some more breathing room. In the meantime, nothing stopping
you from popping over when it is absolutely required.

~~~
CCing
Guys as I've said: my customers are there.

~~~
mdekkers
didn't see that. In that case, get a really really good immigration lawyer.

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CyberFonic
I have read the many fine suggestions and comments to this thread.

If I were in this situation I would approach it from a somewhat different
angle. Taking three steps:

1\. Stay where you are and use the funding to create a demonstrable MVP.

2\. Once the MVP is ready for demonstrations, then visit SV/USA on a B1 visa.
Conduct the meetings, demo the MVP AND negotiate next round funding. As
required for a B1 do not actually work on the product whilst in the USA.

3\. Assuming you get $2m+ for round 2, then you return home, get the
appropriate visa lined up and then make the move. While waiting for the wheels
of bureaucrazy to grind by, you would do further work on your product.

As many comments suggest, $100k won't last long in SV. Immigration legal
services don't come cheap either. Immigration process takes a long time to
complete appropriately. You will waste a lot of time and money relocating. If
you don't get a substantial second round of funding you will have to pack up
and go back to EU.

~~~
CCing
The MVP is already done and I've customers (sv companies) already.

The 100k will be used only for cover immigration costs/living costs/server
costs/ some freelancers(design,copywrite etc...) until I raise another round
from sv investors.

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packeted
I'm also a European founder who initially came out to Berkeley for school.
Before my student visa expired I put together an E-2 application that
ultimately got denied. It's a complex visa that requires a lot of
documentation, so highly recommend you get an experienced immigration lawyer
who can guide you through the process, understands the business side of things
and can help you avoid any pitfalls. Some things to consider for the E-2 from
my experience:

\- You need to own >50% of the company at the time of application or if you
have co-founders from the same country, collectively you need to own >50%.

\- You do need to invest your own money in the company - there isn't a defined
amount but your company needs to have a plausible path to financial
sustainability, generating profits and ideally hiring US workers. Like you
say, IP can count toward this investment. I invested my savings in the
company, but they weren't convinced it was irrevocably committed because most
of it hadn't been spent (!)

\- If you're investing money, make sure you show where the money came from and
how it was earned (in my case, some was gifted by family through inheritance
and it got super messy especially as we hadn't been clear from the outset)

\- The E-2 is time limited and doesn't have a path to residence - meaning it
is either issued for a 2 or 5 year period and has to be renewed. At renewal
you'll need to show that your company is still going strong, otherwise it
could be denied. You'll need to find other options for a Green Card /
Citizenship.

\- You can apply in your home country or in the US as a change of status.
Better to apply in your country as this gives you a physical visa that allows
you to come and go. If you only have a change of status, if you leave you'll
have to apply for the E-2 in your home country all over again.

\- US Embassies in different countries have slightly different approaches
around the E-2 or requirements in how the documents are filed. Take a close
look at their website and ideally get a lawyer who is familiar with the
embassy that you intend to apply through.

Get some good advice, most lawyers will give you a short initial consultation
for free. Avvo.com was a life-saver. Peter Roberts who advises a lot of YC
companies is also highly recommended.

Thankfully my wife ended up getting us green cards through her own
employment... I think there's some truth to the other comment about not
moving. Living costs are very high in the SF Bay Area, talent comes at a
premium and it's increasingly difficult for smaller startups to recruit great
people.

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Artlav
Have you considered O-1 visa?

It sounds intimidating, but many of the requirements are rather easy, i.e.
"international prize" can mean getting an app in App Store or Google Play
selections, "being a member of professional organizations" can be having an
account on Dribbble or Scoutzie, publications online count as "having media
publications", etc.

~~~
hakanito
Be aware, what I've heard if you file for O1 or any other visa by yourself as
an individual (and not through a company), and it is denied you will be banned
from getting any other visa for life.

~~~
nnd
This sounds like an urban legend.

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pedalpete
I haven't done it, but you can get a B1 visa which gives you 6 months entry
into the United States. [http://www.ustraveldocs.com/au/au-niv-
typeb1b2.asp](http://www.ustraveldocs.com/au/au-niv-typeb1b2.asp)

This gives you some time to figure out if Silicon Valley is the right move for
you, and to help you grow your business in the US. However, it is a temporary
visa, so the expectation is that you would return to the EU after it expires.
I'm sure many people use the 6 months to find a way to stay in the US.

~~~
technotony
Not good advice, a B1 does not allow you to operate a business (though you can
do sales or take meetings). You need to speak with a lawyer to determine what
counts as working on your business. Also it's very hard to get a B1 as a
European due to the visa waiver program which gives you 90 days - you need a
very good excuse why those 90 days aren't enough (remember you aren't allowed
to operate a business), and if they reject you then for ever after you have to
click the button on the immigration form saying 'have you ever been denied a
US visa'.

Your best options are the O1, if you think you can meet three of the eight
criteria, or the E-2 visa. Both will cost $5-10k in legal fees and distract
from building your business. Eligibility for E-2 with $100k in investment
(must be from your home country does not have to be from you) will depend on
your business plan.

Either way, you have to talk to a lawyer not an internet forum. Most lawyers
will give you advice for free on the expectation that you will pay them to do
the work.

~~~
andreasklinger
afair what you say is not correct - please correct me if i am wrong

* getting a B1 is very easy (you essentially just need to provide a valid reason - eg fundraising or sales for your company)

* everyone can own US businesses afair - you are just not allowed to start a individual business or receive salary from it

* s/he might just get employed at the european entity

b1 is afair even suggested for this kind of case - get an b1 - see if you can
get more funding - if yes go for long term e1/e2

afair the e1/e2 is issued by your local embassy directly - so you can discuss
w/ them your actual investment - might be easier than O1 for your own company

PS: most importantly: as seen in this thread and mention by comment above:
rely on lawyers not on contradicting forums posts

~~~
outworlder
"afair" is not good enough if you are dealing with US immigration.

B1 is very easy. So much so that there's no reason to not apply to a B1/B2 at
the same time even you are just going to visit on vacation. Who knows, you
might find that there will be a conference near your hotel, which you wouldn't
be able to attend as a tourist.

Now, let's get some info from UCSIS:

[https://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/b-1-business-
visitor/un...](https://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/b-1-business-
visitor/understanding-b-1-requirements)

"\+ How do I demonstrate that the purpose of my trip is to explore starting a
business?"

" A written statement detailing the purpose of your visit, the activities you
will participate in, and the intended duration of your stay Meeting
confirmations (letters, emails, etc.) Meeting agendas/outlines/read-aheads
Invitations for trade shows, conferences, meetings, etc. Evidence of
acceptance into an incubator or accelerator program, including a description
of the program activities and duration Evidence of the source of payment or
other compensation, if any, you will be receiving while in the United States"

So, B1 seems to allow what the OP wants to do.

But then again, I'm not a lawyer. OP should get one.

~~~
technotony
yeah, but for a European who has ESTA you have to explain why you need 180
days not 90 days. They are very suspicious of why you need longer, I know
because I tried and got rejected and then had to tick that box while getting
my O1 and EB1. You are depending on the whim of the guy you meet on the day.
Best to stick to ESTA and avoid B1.

~~~
CCing
Yes this is exactly my experience too.

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outworlder
> I'm working on a project and I'm raising about $ 100k from some friends and
> angels(some are based in US)

The question is, why do they want you to move? Do you really have to? If so,
you'll probably have to change your strategy.

If the investors want you to move so much, get them to foot your extra
expenses, or at the very least your rental bills (so, additional funding).
Otherwise you'll burn through your runway way too quickly.

I do think the runway analogy is a very apt one. Except that, in Silicon
Valley, the runway is made out of acid.

~~~
CCing
It's just a pre-seed and investors want that I move because all my customers
are in sv.

~~~
greglindahl
This is an excellent reason to move. I'd recommend finding a lawyer for real
advice.

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randyrand
have you considered just coming illegally and dealing with this later? SF is a
sanctuary city.

"SF declared itself a sanctuary city in 1989, and city officials strengthened
the stance in 2013 with its 'Due Process for All' ordinance. The law declared
local authorities could not hold immigrants for immigration officials if they
had no violent felonies on their records and did not currently face charges.""

Also in January 2017 a bill was proposed in the California State Legislature
to make California a "sanctuary state."

~~~
beilabs
As someone from outside the US, this is a crazy suggestion.

It would be an immediate red flag for future investors and would also scupper
legal access to other countries like UK, Australia, Canada in the future.
Don't do this.

