

Ask YC: Subscription Billing For On-Demand Startup - jasonlbaptiste

You're a web app like beanstalk app, lighthouse, 37 signals,etc.  You charge per month.  How do you handle billing? What service do you use?
======
nrao123
We use Authorize.net's ARB platform.

But this question has come up before at HN and other places. Here are the
collection of links on subscription. Pretty everything you need to know!

# <http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=453028> #
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=115723> (Recommended) #
[http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/753-ask-37signals-how-
do-...](http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/753-ask-37signals-how-do-you-
process-credit-cards) (Recommended) #
[http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?biz.5.550062.1...](http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?biz.5.550062.14)
# <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48040> #
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47960> #
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12010> #
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47958> #
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33322> (Recommended) #
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49787> #
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12082> #
[http://groups.google.com/group/activemerchant/msg/635e1fec35...](http://groups.google.com/group/activemerchant/msg/635e1fec3535785c)
# [http://blog.robwebb2k.com/2007/10/19/braintree-payment-
solut...](http://blog.robwebb2k.com/2007/10/19/braintree-payment-solutions/-)
Braintree Reccomendation- (Recommended) #
<http://www.webmasterworld.com/ecommerce/3496741.htm> # [http://www.merchant-
account-services.org/blog/building-a-rec...](http://www.merchant-account-
services.org/blog/building-a-recurring-billing-system/) #
[http://www.merchant-account-services.org/article/payment-
gat...](http://www.merchant-account-services.org/article/payment-gateways-
reviewed)

------
there
i signed up for paypal's website payments pro but eventually switched to
braintree for my corduroy (<http://corduroysite.com/>) application.

the problem with paypal's solution is that you either require your customer to
create a paypal account which is a hassle and looks a bit unprofessional, or
you store the credit card information yourself to do recurring billing. if you
store credit cards yourself, in order to be PCI compliant you have to store
them on a separate machine on a separate network from your web servers. if
you're starting out small, that can be a big pain. paypal does offer recurring
billing to an extent but you don't have much control over the process.

braintree offers "securevault" which lets you store the credit card info at
their site and they return you a token for each customer. when you need to do
recurring billing, you just submit the request to their server and pass a
token instead of a credit card number and they take care of the rest.

~~~
bigbang
I believe paypal doesnt require customers to have a paypal account. Just
entering the credit card should be fine (i.e without registration). But my
usage with paypal is just as a customer though

~~~
there
correct. if you make your customer use a paypal account, you won't have to
deal with the storage of the information which makes the whole process easier
on your end (but harder for your customers).

------
falsestprophet
<http://www.braintreepaymentsolutions.com/>

~~~
thorax
I've read why they don't, but I really wish they included some sort of pricing
information (even for an example industry/volume) on their site. Even if
they're great, it makes it difficult for me to judge if it's even worth our
time to investigate further. Anyone who's used them want to share feedback as
to how they compare rate-wise with other providers?

------
webwright
<http://railskits.com/saas/>

Good option if you're a rails app.

~~~
yankees1
On the Braintree site, which is the payment processor used by this railskit,
it shows that they may not always choose to work with you if you do less than
100K a month. Has anyone had any experience with getting approved?

[https://www.braintreepaymentsolutions.com/get-started-
now/fo...](https://www.braintreepaymentsolutions.com/get-started-now/form/2/)

~~~
webwright
RescueTime uses BrainTree and they took us on without a single paying
customer. This has since changed, but we are still quite a bit less than 100k
per month.

------
metajack
We use paypal's payflow pro. I'm very much looking forward to when google
checkout adds subscriptions as well.

~~~
bigtoga
I've been using GC for about 18 mths and we've had more than 20x the
chargebacks that we've had on PayPal - just FYI.

~~~
RyanGWU82
What's GC? Google Checkout?

~~~
bk
Sounds more like Garbage Collection in this case. ;)

------
dawie
Has anyone tried <http://www.zuora.com/> : Zuora Aims To Be Salesforce for
Online Billing

They have some big names and they sound like a startup to look out for.

------
tdavis
Almost anything _but_ PayPal. I have both heard and experienced too many
horror stories involving that company to ever trust them with money on which
my livelihood depends.

~~~
jasonlbaptiste
ive been through one before, but it still comes out the simplest.

~~~
tdavis
Maybe it's just me, but simplicity is below reliability and "will not freeze
my accounts for no reason" on the list of important qualities of a payment
processor.

37signals doesn't even _accept_ PayPal, which I think is one smart move.

------
tortilla
I have used and recommend TrustCommerce. And they have a feature specifically
designed for recurring payments which can be implemented in your software
(some solutions require you to log into their control panel to make a payment
recurring). Lots of APIs for every language too.

<http://www.trustcommerce.com/citadel.php>

------
vaksel
Merchant account.

The downside is you pretty much need to meet the huge requirements by the
credit card companies to do it on your own servers. Which is why you need to
find a merchant account provider that offers a way to store the data on their
servers that meet those requirements. CDGCommerce is one, it gets very good
reviews on all the webmaster forums and they have good rates.

~~~
ambition
OK, what's the upside?

~~~
vaksel
its cheaper than paypal, and you actually look professional. "Please pay us
via paypal/google checkout" just sounds so amateurish.

------
rrival
PayPal ftw.

------
mkramlich
I've had a good impression using PayPal so far for subscriptions and one-time
buys at <a
href="<http://zodlogic.webfactional.com/?pc=hackernews080523>">ZodLogic
Games</a>.

Easy to learn, simple to integrate and test. No horror stories but my needs
are simple and traffic small.

------
bluelu
Amazon also has a biling service (flexible payments service):
[http://www.amazon.com/Flexible-Payments-Service-
AWS/b/ref=sc...](http://www.amazon.com/Flexible-Payments-Service-
AWS/b/ref=sc_fe_l_3?ie=UTF8&node=342430011&no=3440661&me=A36L942TSJ2AJA)

I don't know if you can charge each month however.

~~~
johns
Like PayPal, FPS requires an account with another party (an Amazon account in
this case) making it unsuitable for many, including us. We can't introduce
another step into the process.

~~~
bluelu
That's true.

But I also see and advantage herein. You don't have to save the credit number
and other sensitive details, so they can't be stolen on your servers.

------
jonknee
Both PayFlow (now owned by PayPal) and Authorize.net make subscription billing
easily programmed. Authorize probably makes it a little easier because they
have more code samples, but it's really just an API call for whichever.

------
petercooper
I've used PayPal for several years without significant complaint. However,
definitely pay heed to the horror stories; they are often true. PayPal's one
of those services that's "excellent till it ain't."

------
JeffL
We use Pay Pal and Cybersource (<http://cybersource.com/>). They are both
pretty much equally easy to implement and cost about the same.

------
ivankirigin
If there is anything you don't like about these services and their APIs,
please let Tipjoy know: <http://tipjoy.com/feedback/>

~~~
jasonlbaptiste
hey ivan, we should chat. jason [at] publictivity dot com

------
patrickg-zill
Note: there is also desktop software like ICVerify that will keep track of CC
numbers and run them on a regular basis for you; I believe that it can also
handle subscriptions.

------
jsdalton
a.) This costs money and b.) I haven't actually used it. But I bookmarked it a
few weeks ago because it looked interesting. Seems to be a Rails
implementation of the BrainTree payment gateway.

Worth a look, particularly if you're using Rails as a framework (which I guess
you might be since you cite Rails apps as examples).

<http://railskits.com/saas/>

------
spencerfry
You should ideally support: MasterCard, Visa, Discover, AmEx, and PayPal

------
jasonlbaptiste
services we've looked at:

-zuora -aria

they want 5-10k in implementation, 1k per month minimum, and 2-4% of your
sales (keep in mind, that is ON TOP of processing fees)

------
staunch
PayPal++

