
Europe’s new cold war turns digital as Vladimir Putin expands media offensive - rwmj
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/05/europe-vladimir-putin-russia-social-media-trolls
======
dijit
The whole tone of this article tries to pin Russia in a bad light. (especially
the opening).. As much as many people may disagree- what if /this/ is the
propoganda?

it's very easy to say "Don't trust him, he's a liar"\- but if the two that are
saying not to trust each other are historically feuding, then perhaps you
should believe neither and check facts while attempting to avoid biased
sources.

~~~
digi_owl
It is interesting to watch the tone regarding Russia change as the leadership
changes.

After the dismantling of the Soviet Union, Russia under Yeltsin was a friend.
At the same time the nation's economy was carved up between local oligarchs
and foreign multinationals.

Then the change to Putin, that goes after said oligarchs to wrest back
control. Now all of a sudden Russia is the big scary bear to the east.

I don't see a big scary aggressor. I am looking at a nation and leader that
wants some degree of self-determination, and is being vilified and boxed in as
a response.

~~~
pjc50
_I don 't see a big scary aggressor_

You missed the shooting down of the civilian airliner and the destabilisation
of Ukraine.

But of course you could apply _tu quoque_ here as well. The entire area from
Vilnius to Islamabad has both US and Russian proxy forces, influence-
purchasers, spies and propagandists active in it. That's where the carve-up is
going on.

~~~
lbn
Do people actually believe that Putin personally ordered to shoot down that
plane? What incentive did he have to do something that would obviously turn
the whole world against him and lead to many sanctions?

Do you think him doing something obviously stupid like this is more likely
than just supplying serious weapons to incompetent "soldiers"?

~~~
pjc50
Not _directly_ , obviously, any more than Reagan ordered the shootdown of Iran
Air Flight 655. But in both cases the underlying wrong was escalating a
conflict, putting the weapons in the area and setting rules of engagement that
allowed the launching of missiles when the country was not officially at war.

The incursion into Ukraine was presumably supposed to be deniable, unlike the
Iraqui invasion of Kuwait.

------
hugh4life
Obligitory: Hacking Online Polls and Other Ways British Spies Seek To Control
The Internet [https://theintercept.com/2014/07/14/manipulating-online-
poll...](https://theintercept.com/2014/07/14/manipulating-online-polls-ways-
british-spies-seek-control-internet/)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-
sponsored_Internet_sockp...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-
sponsored_Internet_sockpuppetry)

Reporting on what the Russians are up to is important, but so is perspective.
And I find it a bit annoying how Russia is being blamed for many things as a
way for European leaders to avoid taking responsibility.

------
Malstrond
How is this trolling? Not everyone who disagrees with you is a troll. Their
intent doesn't seem to be to anger their reader, but to change their opinion.
It is political propaganda.

Calling it trolling instead of a nation state trying to influence you
belittles the phenomenon.

~~~
dghughes
It's organized by the state it's not just random people.

~~~
Malstrond
Which is why I said "a nation state trying to influence you".

------
Kequc
This article sort of seems a lot like pre-emptive damage control. Certainly
don't believe everything you read on the internet but that should go for all
sources that aren't well sourced. People need to get better at separating out
facts from propaganda.

------
coldcode
All through history offensive weapons have always changed in reaction to
defensive weapons and vice versa': why should a media "war" be any different?
The tools which allow us to be discover truth can equally be used to generate
falsehood or create confusion or affect opinion and policy. Truth is such a
slippery concept and can be manipulated like anything else.

------
f3llowtraveler
Why are the establishment mouthpieces trying so hard to create a new Cold War?

Is it because the Terror War isn't enough to justify the elites' desired
levels military spending?

~~~
davorb
> Is it because the Terror War isn't enough to justify the elites' desired
> levels military spending?

It's the politics of fear. I wish there was something we could do about it.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares)

------
supergirl
not sure who is trolling whom

------
sharetea
Apparently people aren't sure what is good vs evil anymore....what a sad world
we live in.

Greed: Russia's former largest foreign investor: Putin is worth $200 billion.

[http://www.businessinsider.com/russias-former-largest-
foreig...](http://www.businessinsider.com/russias-former-largest-foreign-
investor-putin-is-worth-200-billion-2015-2)

Wrath: HOW MANY MORE YEARS WILL PUTIN OCCUPY UKRAINE?

[http://www.newsweek.com/how-many-more-years-will-putin-
occup...](http://www.newsweek.com/how-many-more-years-will-putin-occupy-
ukraine-431023)

Here Are The Numbers On Putin And Journalists Ending Up Dead

[http://dailycaller.com/2015/12/22/here-are-the-numbers-on-
pu...](http://dailycaller.com/2015/12/22/here-are-the-numbers-on-putin-and-
journalists-ending-up-dead/)

Pride: Moscow court upholds gay Pride ban for next 100 years

[http://wisconsingazette.com/2012/08/17/moscow-court-
upholds-...](http://wisconsingazette.com/2012/08/17/moscow-court-upholds-gay-
pride-ban-for-next-100-years/)

Gluttony: Russians start trashing banned Western food

[http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/07/news/russia-destroys-food-
pe...](http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/07/news/russia-destroys-food-peaches-
cheese/)

Sloth: How He and His Cronies Stole Russia

[http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2014/12/18/how-he-and-his-
cr...](http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2014/12/18/how-he-and-his-cronies-
stole-russia/)

