
Why Finland leads the world in flexible work - algui91
https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20190807-why-finland-leads-the-world-in-flexible-work
======
acd
I can highly recommend the world to adopt like in the Nordics at least 4-5
weeks of yearly vacation. Staff are more rested with more vacation so they are
more productive plus you get a different perspective having time off. Also
companies should allow remote work and flexible hours. Further due to
increased automation we could actually work less hours keeping the same
output. If we automate more work we could allow us selves more free time,
still enjoying the same output.

I think tech companies will lead the way because of the competitive nature
hunting for talent. Hopefully other industries will follow. Maybe California
as state will lead the way in the US?

Annual leave by country.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_b...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country)

~~~
dominicr
One effect of this in the Nordic culture is that often a lot of these holidays
are taken at the same time. People take 3 or 4 weeks off at once between the
end of June and early August, especially in Norway. Productivity for the
company effectively hits zero for 6 weeks whilst the Norwegians have their
holiday, then the Swedish and Danish have their turn.

Although the few people that do work get a lot done due to having no meetings
or interruptions. There were days in the summer where there were 3 of us in
the office, out of 200 in the department. Bliss!

~~~
miskin
I worked in Finland in 2001-2002 in what we would call now startup and even
lead managers or scientists in company were not in the office in July-August.
They simply worked more during winter and spent as much of Finnish summer
outside as possible. But as article mentions, it was usual to take long
vacations even in government jobs - if you needed visa for your relative,
you'd better have it before June, or you would get it in September, since
clerks were out of office :).

~~~
dominicr
I worked for a year in an incubator in Oslo, full of start ups that talked
about “work hard, play hard” & having to put in extra effort. The building was
practically empty by 6pm.

------
mxuribe
> Since then, discussions about the benefits of flexible working have
> intensified around the world, with a boom in large global companies
> embracing the concept...

I sure hope companies operating in U.S. adopt this behavior more and more. It
always seems like in the U.S. we work harder and not necessarily smarter;
certainly not healthier. I'm envious of the health-related foundations that
other countries at least try to establish for their citizens. I'm tired of
chasing the dollar, and wish to only pursue happiness. </sigh>

~~~
verttii
On the other hand, exactly because of the high work ethic USA excels in many
regards that these "well-being nations" do not. But you're right, it doesn't
necessarily lead to a better health to work harder, however, often it does
lead to better business results.

~~~
Someone1234
I dispute the "better business results" claim, I don't think that's factually
true. But let's assume it is, why then is wealth so much more concentrated[0]
in the US?

Let's assume that the US did have "better business results" and let's also
assume that that is the result of worse working conditions. Why then are the
workers, working in worse conditions, not benefiting from it directly?

Seems like, if that were true, the US is working average workers harder so
that the ultra-wealthy can get even wealthier. Does that benefit society at
large?

PS - I'd like to link this, called "The Nordic Model"[1] discusses a lot of
good (and bad) about that part of the world.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_eq...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality#OECD_countries)

[1]
[https://economics.mit.edu/files/5726](https://economics.mit.edu/files/5726)

~~~
verttii
In contrast, if USA is not performing better then why are most of the digital
innovations of US origin? Why do like half of the world's tech billionaires
live in Silicon Valley? While Finland has maybe 1?

The Scandinavian countries focus on leveling the playing field for everyone.
It allows the less privileged to build a good life, but it also hinders the
most ambitious ones. Whereas USA is happy to focus on the extremes, allowing
places like Silicon Valley to flourish.

We can argue endlessly whichever is better for the society, but professionals
often choose the place to live based on what is best for them, not what
political model some place runs on.

~~~
Someone1234
> Why do like half of the world's tech billionaires live in Silicon Valley?

Because wealth is concentrated at the top... That's the whole problem. Society
gets poorer while the ultra-wealthy continue to accumulate wealth.

> It allows the less privileged to build a good life, but it also hinders the
> most ambitious ones.

Good..? So your complaint is that Nordic countries try to make give everyone a
good standard of living rather than creating poverty so a few more
millionaires can become billionaires? That argument doesn't make any sense to
me. I don't even see where you're coming from.

> We can argue endlessly whichever is better for the society, but
> professionals often choose the place to live based on what is best for them,
> not what political model some place runs on.

A lot of professionals aren't ultra-wealthy though. They're the ones working
longer hours in the US for similar pay relative to most of Europe. They're
being exploited harder and seeing nothing as a result except their
proportionate spending power diminish further as their healthcare costs
continue to outpace their wages.

~~~
AdrianB1
You are in no way answering to the question: why in Silicon Valley and not in
Finland or other countries?

~~~
claudeganon
Because the military-industrial complex of the world’s largest super power
invested in the basic research and infrastructure to create this context. It’s
the same reason the Soviet’s excelled in technological pursuits relative to
many small European countries and why Russia still has an outsized place in
IT.

------
mothsonasloth
Its interesting how there are 3 top rated articles today on working hours /
patterns.

------
AdrianB1
It is fairly easy to pick up a success, make a story around it and generalize.
But in the same time Finland is at the top of European countries on the
depression. Is there any relation between flexible work and depression? No
idea, just throwing random "leads the world" facts.

~~~
verttii
I really doubt it's that. Probably more to do with how little sunshine there
is over the winter (which is long and cold).

------
Quipunotch104
Everyday I love this country a little more...

~~~
algui91
Nordic countries are so advanced in so many things... Look at Swede, with its
6 hours/day of work.

~~~
thecopy
What? Sweden works 40 hours per week.

~~~
algui91
They were transitioning to a six-hours workday, as far as I know.

\- [https://www.sciencealert.com/sweden-is-shifting-
to-a-6-hour-...](https://www.sciencealert.com/sweden-is-shifting-to-a-6-hour-
workday) \- [https://www.thelocal.se/20140408/swedish-workers-to-test-
six...](https://www.thelocal.se/20140408/swedish-workers-to-test-six-hour-
work-days)

Experiments shown an increment in productivity and happiness.

~~~
asparuh_kostov
Well I work and live in Sweden (notice I put work first?) and it's far from
6hrs/day for most industries. Actually now that I think about it I don't know
a single person who only works 6 hours per day. The idea is great though, wish
it were true :/

~~~
algui91
Oh, what a shame, I though it was real :-(

~~~
hylaride
It's never as real or good as you think. France's famous 35 hour workweek only
really applies to people who clock in hourly wages. Even there, it's merely
the number where overtime kicks in.

If you're a professional/salaried you work as much as the job requires, just
like the US.

~~~
outside1234
Plus it is super difficult to get said professional/salaried job because they
are so afraid of hiring folks.

------
znpy
God that kind of articles are awful. Don't tell me an effing child fable, just
lay the facts.

------
dlphn___xyz
im pretty sure scandanavia leads the world in quality of life

~~~
iikoolpp
Finland isn't Scandanavia.

~~~
freehunter
In common English usage it often is:

>In English usage, Scandinavia also sometimes refers to the Scandinavian
Peninsula, or to the broader region including Finland and Iceland, which is
always known locally as the Nordic countries.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavia)

------
HNcantBtrustd
I can't fathom what life is like in such a small country.

If 1 major company goes out of business, does it cause chaos?

High unemployment and lower tax revenue sounds like any moment the country
could find itself in an economic depression.

In my local area this almost happened.

~~~
WaylonKenning
I'm from New Zealand. What's our major companies? None of them employ more
than 20,000 employees globally. Sure that's a lot of people to lose a job, but
the big companies are building, groceries, airlines, and telecommunications.
If the companies go under, the demand for the products doesn't disappear.

As for unemployment rate, 3.9%. Pretty close to the UK, USA, China.

As for tax, on $100K USD, you'd be taxed 28.3% on your income, and 15% on your
consumption via GST.

~~~
verttii
Interesting, since New Zealand is in many ways comparable with Finland.

In Finland the tax rate for $100K USD would be 41.3% on average. The common
consumption tax is 24% (VAT). On top of that, certain goods like alcohol, gas,
cars, could have additional goods specific tax that could be well over 100%.

Unemployment stands at I think 6.6%.

------
eionh
Why $culturally_homogeneous_and_highly_educated_country leads the world in
$social_wellness

~~~
maeln
Let's look at a simple fact: Finland as a Parliament of 200 seat for a
population of roughly 5.5 million. France as a Parliament of 577 seat for a
population of roughly 67 million.

Thats around 3 times more representative per citizen.

It's more like more democracy = more social wellness.

EDIT: To have the same amount of representative in France, we would need ~1900
députés, which mean 19 députés per département, and ~6 députés per
arondissement.

~~~
alkonaut
Finland has 4-5000 trees per person. Clearly it's the abundance of trees that
creates the social wellness.

~~~
maeln
Well ofc the reality is more complex than that and my example is an
oversimplification. But the point still stand. The more a country is
democratic, the more benefit will be distributed to the global population
instead of a small portion of it.

~~~
alkonaut
I don't think many would agree that a larger parliament would make something
"more democratic". It must matter infinitely less than e.g. a media climate,
level of corruption, regulation of political donations, etc. etc.

------
outside1234
Nokia is a good example of why this doesn't work.

As soon as there was a talented company that wanted to work hard for the
market (Apple), Nokia was toast.

~~~
pjc50
Surely Apple is an example of working smarter rather than harder?

~~~
verttii
it's of both. Nokia was heavily constrained by the Finnish labor laws and
working culture.

~~~
nextlevelwizard
Listening to people who worked at Nokia before shut down there was a lot of
wasted time and effort on products that lead nowhere. They missed the boat
with the smart phones. It took too long for Nokia to come out with a smart
phone line and it was plagued with hardware design flaws. Then they gambled on
the OS and rest is history.

Had Nokia jumped on board of the smart phone grace right off the bat and
supported Google instead of Microsoft the scene might be way different.

~~~
eloisant
It's hard to predict an alternate future, but by the time the adopted Windows
they were already in a bad position.

To put it simply, they missed the transition to smartphones, just like
Blackberry. They were in control of their OS, it makes sense they didn't want
to give it away before it became clear that they couldn't do it.

They had Symbian, which was old and crappy, and Maemo then Meego which
apparently, they didn't push enough. The real winning move would have been to
bet everything on Meego, bring in the partners they have with Symbian before
Android took the market. They didn't do it because they were clinging to the
dying Symbian.

Honestly, if they had adopted Android right away I'm not sure they would have
been able to compete against HTC/LG/Samsung and other Asian companies.

