
No thanks Google, we've got Ubuntu - nreece
http://www.zdnet.com.au/insight/software/soa/No-thanks-Google-we-ve-got-Ubuntu/0,139023769,339297306,00.htm
======
greyman
The author seems to see Chrome OS as just another linux distro, and asks why
not to take Ubuntu and make it better. But I don't think that's the case. They
will just take the Linux kernel and build browser-based OS, which will be
quite a different product from Ubuntu.

I am looking forward to this. It seems to me, no offense, that Linux just
didn't win against Windows, and that doesn't seem to change in the next few
years. Even on netbooks, most people preferred Windows Xp for $50 to a free
Ubuntu, and Win7 is supposed to be even better. It seems to me that Ubuntu is
just a niche product, while Chrome OS could have bigger appeal.

~~~
woodsier
What I find more troubling is this notion that variety (or fragmentation as
they call it) is bad.

They very clearly state it is an OS geared for low-resource netbook style
computers, where browsers are up and running within seconds of pressing the on
button. We don't have one of these yet, afaik.

Why not work with Ubuntu? It's geared to be the Windows of Linux, an all-round
competitor and jack of all trades. In my mind, this would be stupid. That's
like the original Ubuntu developers getting grief because they weren't
building on some other distro, which may have been built with a different use
in mind.

I like using Unix for my server, Win7 for my home laptop, and hopefully giving
a stable version of Chrome OS a swing down the line on my girlfriend's
netbook. If anything, it sounds like they want to build "down" from ditro's
such as Ubuntu, not up. I'd rather not use a baseball bat in a game of tennis.
Variety is a good thing.

~~~
secret
Isn't this browser OS concept essentially what the Crunchpad aims to be?

Edit: Of course, the crunchpad is also the hardware component, making it more
all-in-one.

~~~
roc
The Crunchpad aims to be _a browser_. Specifically: a finger-friendly one.

GoogleOS would still be dealing with things like USB devices, a variety of
internal hardware, offline processing, keyboard/mouse UI, desktop-class apps,
etc.

------
sadiq
This is why the open source movement is so interesting, we're seeing
competition and innovation in Operating Systems like never before.

The cost of taking world-class components (like the kernel, filesystems,
windowing systems) is so low that it makes sense for people and companies to
experiment, as we're seeing now. Chrome OS would be prohibitively expensive to
develop if they weren't able to take so much off of the shelf.

~~~
netsp
On the same note, without Open Source, netbooks may never have gotten a start.
Microsoft could have charged a prohibitive license fee to sell $350 laptops.
They could have refused to continue XP. Windows 7 for netbooks would never
have been necessary.

------
eli
_You can email Linus Torvalds or Mark Shuttleworth directly and get answers to
your Linux questions, sometimes within minutes or hours._

I call BS. At best, maybe _you_ can get answers like that because you're a
already a Linux wizard. Linus and Mark are not going to help me set up my
network printer with Ubuntu.

~~~
jacquesm
If you need help with setting up your network printer with Ubuntu you can find
dozens of avenues where you can get that answer (you could email me for
instance, I'd be happy to help you ;) ), also, last time I did this myself the
process was completely painless.

I realize that you are speaking tongue in cheek but it is a less than
fortunate example.

Oh, and the offer to help is serious in case you really have that problem.

~~~
eli
Hey, every OS has support forums (and Ubuntu's are above average), but "I can
just email the kernel developer" is not a rational way to deal with set up and
support issues.

Support isn't the real issue anyway. You can always buy support (it's not like
the support you get with Windows is anything special anyway).

Ubuntu (and Linux generally) is great as a server. I gave up on Ubuntu on the
desktop. It was very hard to set up and configure. Sleep/resume was flaky on
my Thinkpad. On my desktop it took several days of trying different drivers
and hacking xorg.conf to get my second monitor to work properly, and my cheapo
webcam is flat-out not supported by any driver I could find (and I really
looked).

Yeah, these are mostly driver issues that aren't really Linux's "fault" -- but
who cares. In Windows everything _just worked_ out of the box.

I think Google will have the same problems. People aren't going to be happy if
they buy a Google PC and nothing happens when they plug in their ancient,
oddball plotter printer.

------
jncraton
_Mozilla Firefox is completely independent and not pushing anyone's agenda_

I'm not sure that this is strictly true. The majority of the revenue from
Firefox comes from the search deal with Google.

[http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/08/28/mozilla-extends-
lucrati...](http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/08/28/mozilla-extends-lucrative-
deal-with-google-for-3-years/)

------
ErrantX
Indeed the same argument could apply to _any_ new distro - why not drop your
ideas and go make Ubuntu better.

Answer: because that is not the point of Open Source.

~~~
raganwald
I logged into make that point _of Ubuntu itself_. Ubuntu was a new
distribution at one time, launched in the face of existing popular options. If
Ubuntu is wonderful, is it wonderful in spite of not rolling its ideas into
the popular distributions at the time? Or is it wonderful precisely because it
was able to decisively forge its own path?

And if so, why shouldn't that same logic apply to Chrome?

------
Raphael
Using the Linux kernel in GCOS is not intended to compete with mos Linux
distributions, rather it is to keep the lights on.

~~~
michaelneale
Similar with Android.

------
noonespecial
I shudder to think what ubuntu would run like on an arm with 128 meg. Ubuntu
is cool on by daul core 4Ghz. Much less cool on my old 500Mhz PIII (even the
XFCE edition).

Why not just say ubuntu is for big computers, chrome/os for small ones and not
try to shoehorn any one thing onto everything?

~~~
krschultz
Ubuntu Netbook Remix runs faster than Moblin & Windows XP on an Intel Atom -
the primary CPU for netbooks. When they say ARM they mean something that can
compete with the Atom, not some of the lower level ones.

------
ktharavaad
For an example of what the chromeOS might end up like, take a look at this:

<http://www.thinkgos.com/index.html>

Ironically, its called gOS which implies strong google connections and thats
reinforced by the integration of all the google apps.

I think it boots up in a few seconds, only has a chrome-like browser running
and custom launcher for certain apps.

~~~
peregrine
I was thinking about that as soon as I saw this. I think Google's strategy is
a little bit different in that Google will be a browser first an operating
system second.

------
jacoblyles
If google sees a need that isn't being met by the community, then it doesn't
make sense to partner with an existing effort that already has its own people,
mission, biases, and agenda. Ubuntu is very different from the Chrome OS.

It sounds like the author is angry at Google for competing with a product that
he is emotionally invested in. While I can understand his emotional
investment, I think it is foolish to get angry at companies for innovating and
providing the world with new technologies.

------
eleitl
> The growing dominance of Ubuntu (at least on the desktop, the server room
> seems to have been won by Red Hat)

Not my server room, for certain. Debian is doing very nicely there.

Desktop yes (along with Win XP and OS X), but I could go to Debian there, if I
wanted to.

------
wglb
See, but it is not a one size fits all kind of thing. If you have an iphone or
ipod or a mac, you also have freebsd. If you have other cellphones, you have
another os. And his thinking is influenced by the system administrator point
of view.

------
known
Users do not run OS. They run Applications. Hence it is rational to compare
Usability, Performance and Functionality of GNOME/KDE/FOSS/Google Applications
with Microsoft Applications.

------
wlievens
Great news for ARM, I guess.

~~~
rbanffy
I would prefer a desktop-like OS for ARM-based devices.

If the mainstream go for simpler OSs for those smartbooks, there will be
little demand for a multi-gigabyte RAM with real hard-disk class of non-x86
machines.

I love my Acer Aspire One and use it as my main development system, but I have
no need for its Windows compatibility and would trade it for longer battery
life any day.

And a cache-heavy 4+ core ARM with decent FP capability would still need less
juice than a single-core Atom.

------
trezor
I think the author raises a valid point.

Back in the days, when Microsoft was the big, bad guy which everyone feared,
not _a_ monopolist, but _the_ Monopolist, the One That Had To Be Stopped(tm),
the current state of affairs was as following:

    
    
      * Microsoft controlled the OS
      * Microsoft had a Office suite
        (and defacto control of interchange file-formats)
      * Microsoft had a web-browser
      * Microsoft has a mobile platform
        (with support for the Office file formats and little else)
    

Now let's take a look at Google whose ass everyone seems collectively
interested in kissing:

    
    
      * Google controls the majority of all web search
      * Google controls the majority of free web-mail
      * Google apps not only makes it their software
        but they also control your data
      * Google also has access to your local data
        albeit only if you use Google desktop search
      * Google tracks users everywhere on the web
        Google analytics lets them know what you are doing and why
      * Google has a browser
      * Google has a mobile OS
        Oh! And it in ties closely with all of Google's services
      * Google has a closed platform for application hosting
        Again they have total access to all your data
    

And now Google wants to make a desktop OS to further make sure they control
every part of your daily activities.

But I guess it is entirely unproblematic that they can track your every
activity wherever you are, on whatever device you are and whatever platform
you are using. They are the good guys, right?

And it's not like they have lock-in on the file-formats you use, they just
have lock-in on your actual _data_. I mean who cares about that?

After all they are using _web-standards_ to do the stuff they do, so it can't
be bad, right?

Edit: Posts like this makes me wish HN had markdown support for unordered
lists allready.

~~~
tjogin
There is no lock-in with Google, and that makes _all_ the difference.

Switching to a different provider of search, email, website statistics, ads,
browser, etc, is not only possible — it is effortless.

Google haven't made alliances with other vendors to make it hard or even
uncomfortable to use a competitor's product in either market. Quite the
contrary, many of their services provide means of _exporting_ my data, unlike
many of their competitors.

Google does not dominate either one of those markets due to having leveraged
dominance on another market, forcing the end-user's choice. I do not have to
use Gmail just because I use Google for searching, it is _just as easy_ to use
any other email provider instead. Same thing goes for ads, browser, etc.

As long as Google's services continue to be free of lock-in and either one are
easily switched out for a competitor's product, I'll be comfortable using
their various services in spite of dominance in various markets.

~~~
encoderer
Effortless?

You are currently using 1794 MB (24%) of your 7345 MB.

How can I "Effortlessly" move my 18,000 emails to another provider?

How can I "Effortlessly" replace my need to cater to Der Googlebot for the
assurance of keeping happy my largest source of traffic?

All I'm saying is... if 3/4 of all toll free phone calls to American
businesses were routed thru a single provider, that company would be regulated
by the Government. I don't necessarily thing Google should be regulated, but I
do think you are naieve if you think the existence of Google circa 2009 isn't
as dangerous as Microsoft circa 1999.

~~~
ptomato
They provide pop3 access that lets you download all 18000 of those emails. You
can then do whatever you want with them. Certainly set up your own webmail
system on a server, say.

Oh store them locally in mail-client-of-your-choice. Or import them into any
other webmail service that supports importing from pop3 (none come to mind,
but it would be fairly trivial to implement.)

------
TweedHeads
Yes thanks Google, we've got Ubuntu and we want more options.

Better options.

