
5 reasons to avoid iPhone 3G - apgwoz
http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/5-reasons-to-avoid-iphone-3g/blogentry_view
======
crescendo
_A snake oil salesman not satisfied with his business of pushing proprietary
software and Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) technology into your home,
Jobs has set his sights on getting DRM and proprietary software into your
pocket as well._

Is it just me, or does the rhetoric from FSF often times border on spiteful?
Snake oil salesman? Come on, guys. You're not going to win over sensible
people with this kind of attack.

~~~
nonrecursive
"into your home... into your pocket as well."

Lock your doors! ...Sew up your pockets! This has to stop, before Jobs has DRM
technology dating our women.

~~~
brk
We have women???!??!

Shit... I'll be right back...

------
cosmok
'iPhone completely blocks free software. Developers must pay a tax to Apple,
who becomes the sole authority over what can and can't be on everyone's
phones.'

I dislike the fact that Apple has considerable (compltete?) control over the
distribution of an iPhone app and even charges the developer for doing
so.Frigging unbelivable!

~~~
jotto
Why are people so upset about this? They provide a great shopping experience
for their customers, and a great distribution channel for your apps. This is a
service worth paying for.

~~~
pavelludiq
The problem is that this channel is THE ONLY ONE.

~~~
cstef
Well, maybe not the only one... <http://www.ziphoneunlock.com/?id=yuga>

Just sayin'

~~~
dzohrob
shame on you if that's an affiliate link.

~~~
cstef
I do not work for the company that the link points to, if that is what you
mean. Just saying you can jailbreak your phone and run anything you want.

------
swombat
Blah blah blah... Can anyone say "broken record"?

FSF claims to be about choice. Well, I exercise my choice by choosing to buy
the phone that I prefer.

~~~
mdasen
The FSF can be like that, but they also have a good point. Only Apple could
get away with creating a smartphone where they hold all the cards - deciding
what and who can and can't develop for it. If Microsoft tried to pull
something like that, we'd all cry foul.

/yeah, I'm still getting an iPhone today. //hoping that in two years there
will be other competitors who are more open and match the iPhone's quality

~~~
jotto
This is the main reason Apple can ensure quality. They limit the scope of
their hardware so there are no unexpected use cases. Visual voicemail "just
works", the app store "just works". The problem is that the iphone appeals to
geeks, and many geeks are privacy/FSF/EFF purists.

~~~
newt0311
Why not instead have optional quality? Provide a set of approved programs but
still let users install what ever they want.

~~~
jotto
Doesn't Microsoft Windows kind of do this? You can optionally use these
"certified drivers" and software from big vendors, but there are always the
long tail of apps, widgets, bleeding edge drivers, smiley faces etc, that
people will always download and spoil the user experience.

Point is, it doesn't work for Microsoft. It's a slippery slope, once you open
your platform to anyone (which is great), you'll have a nightmare of support.

I agree, the optional policy works fine for power users. I know many geeks who
use Vista with no problem because they use the "certified" software.

~~~
mattmaroon
Right, the problem is, people blame the quality problems on Microsoft no
matter where they originate. It's not worth going down that path for Apple, as
they've somehow built a reputation around "it just works" despite the fact
that it doesn't seem to be any more true from them than anyone else.

------
extantproject
All cell phones expose "your whereabouts and [provide] ways for others to
track you without your knowledge" via cell tower triangulation. At a minimum,
this point is FUD.

~~~
apgwoz
But do other cell phones provide novices an SDK and a few simple functions to
get position via GPS and do a HTTP POSTs while entering an item in "Joe's
shopping list" application?

Perhaps they do, but without a constant connection to wifi or EDGE/3G that the
iPhone has, you'd have to authorize it, in order for it to be sent. Probably
not so with the iPhone. It's designed to constantly talk to the Internet (it's
even got a new notifications framework that relies on communicating with
Apple's servers).

I can't comment on whether or not you need to authorize each application in
order for it to use the GPS APIs or not, but if you don't (which I assume you
won't), this could be scary.

~~~
boucher
You are asked before the first time any application is allowed to use your
current location. So, this point is ridiculous.

~~~
pcc
Maybe not - since you can't see the code you don't know when location info is
being transmitted without asking your permission.

Considering that OnStar is apparently being pressured to provide a remote
"kill switch" to law enforcement, that printers put hidden codes on each page
at the behest of law enforcement etc, would you be troubled if your phone
secretly had a feature to pinpoint you within meters without your knowledge,
upon the mere request of someone who appears to have the correct law
enforcement credentials?

As to already being able to do this via triangulation etc: perhaps, but this
would make it even simpler; as I recall in the CDMA world pure network-based
location can't get more accurate than 250m and can't do elevation.

------
dejb
Thank god for some sanity. I cannot for the life of me understand why
otherwise intelligent geeks fawn over locked Apple products and the iPhone in
particular.

~~~
ozanonay
Perhaps because it's a delight to use and look at?

Occasionally, when something is designed better than any other comparable
device, you have to pay to use it. In this case, you pay by following a few of
their rules.

~~~
felideon
Right.

And unless my main reason for buying a mobile phone is "for hacking," I don't
see why I should pay $400 for the alternative (i.e. the Neo FreeRunner) when
the iPhone "just works"--and nicely at that. How sure are we that the Neo
FreeRunner would even be stable enough for use as a main phone?

When the day comes that I want to hack my phone, I'll get the FreeRunner.
(Hopefully by then it'll be cheaper.) For now, I just want to use my phone.

~~~
jrockway
_I just want to use my phone._

You know, you can get "just a phone" for about $5 these days. Why are you
shelling out for an iPhone? (The answer is because you don't want "just a
phone".)

~~~
felideon
Sorry, the emphasis was on the word "use", not "phone".

I just want to _use_ my smart phone.

------
rit
I'll really try to take that whole rant with a grain of salt.

Yes, I realize I'm locked into "apple's DRM" - if I buy from the iTunes store.
I buy from Amazon MP3, or I rip CDs (those are the 3 ways to get music on my
iPhone, right? ;)) to MP3. No DRM lockin there... Yes, it doesn't happen to
play FLAC/OGG but I can easily transcode FLAC to Apple Lossless if I want -
and back again - and I have yet to hear anyone explain to me what OGG gives me
that mp3 doesn't. Surprisingly, just because it doesn't have GNU/ tacked on
the front of it, a product can be innovative and interesting despite it not
being Open Source. I know this comes as a surprise to RMS and his FSF hippies.

Also, the single most annoying part of the iPhone 2.0 is the fact that ANY
TIME the location services are activated (including by Apple's apps like
Camera and Google Maps) it asks you permission to locate you.

Not to mention that, as another commenter mentioned most phones have GPS these
days - and my recollection is that the Enhanced 911 features mean that that
GPS can be automatically sent to authorities in the case of an emergency. So,
pretty much any phone is going to have that 'risk' - if the OpenMoko devices
have GPS they may need to comply w/ E911 as well.

~~~
jodrellblank
> and I have yet to hear anyone explain to me what OGG gives me that mp3
> doesn't

The right to use - or as a developer, create - a program that can play/record
music in that format without permission from, or payment to, the people who
developed and patented said format.

The right to read the file format specification and change it to suit your own
use without consulting or paying anyone or breaking the law.

You are explaining how you download music in MP3 format to avoid DRM
restrictions - but the MP3 format itself is locked-in and restricted.

Yes things are innovative and interesting while being restricted, but they
aren't free if they are restricted. That is, they can't be used to build more
innovative and interesting things (without permission or payment) if they are
restricted.

~~~
pcc
>> and I have yet to hear anyone explain to me what OGG gives me that mp3
doesn't

> The right to use - or as a developer, create - a program that can
> play/record music in that format without permission from, or payment to, the
> people who developed and patented said format.

And the right as a customer to choose to avoid paying indirectly for a
technology license (mp3) by choosing to use another technology (ogg vorbis).

Its a bit like the argument of the people who want to buy just a PC (say for a
freebsd server); and implicitly must also pay for the included Windows they're
forced to take, even though they never want to use it (is this not now illegal
in some states)?

Except in this case, you are paying a portion of the cost of the phone, a
portion of the cost of Windows (or Mac OS), and a portion of the cost of tune
downloads, as a license fee for mp3 (well the vendor is paying the license
fee, but guess where its coming from).

------
tstegart
Ok, using logic 'n all, a lot of the arguments don't make sense. Which is sad,
because put differently, I'm sure whoever wrote them could have made them
effective.

The iPhone does not completely block free software. Last time I checked, there
was free software available in the App Store. Developers are welcome to
release their code I presume.

A lesser argument to the response that Apple decides what is and is not on
everyone's phones is that anyone can create a web application, which Apple
does not control.

If the author wants to call the $99 developer's fee a tax, I don't care. But
it does have a purpose. You also get access to Apple's development program,
and if you're distributing your applications for free (as this person seems to
like), you get a free distribution platform and free bandwidth for people to
download your app.

The iPhone does not expose your whereabouts or allow other people to track you
anymore than any other phone in the United States does. How he got this, I
have no idea. You can turn off the location based services that will stop any
application from tracking you. Law enforcement in the U.S. can track any
phone's location, so the iPhone is not unique in that respect. Furthermore,
some people will want their location tracked so that applications can tell
them what's nearby.

Now, I'm not against free software, but please, if you're going to argue for
something, make it logical and rational.

~~~
apgwoz
> The iPhone does not completely block free software. Last time I checked,
> there was free software available in the App Store. Developers are welcome
> to release their code I presume.

Yes, there is software in the AppStore that is gratis, and developers can of
course share their code. However, I can't recompile it and run it on my iPhone
right away without it being distributed through the AppStore. Will Apple
reject applications that have only minor tweaks? What if the modifications I
want to make are not changes that the original developer wants and they are
unwilling to merge them? Where does that leave me? Not with Free Software as
it fails to meet the requirements.

~~~
evgen
Actaully, you can recompile it and run it on your iphone by getting the SDK
and dev tools. How do you think that developers test their programs? I tell
xcode to compile the app and if my phone is plugged in it automatically
uploads it. The AdHoc distribution model (still be be enabled or explained in
much detail) also suggests that you will be able to distribute your app to up
to 100 other users.

~~~
tstegart
Yeah, from what I can tell, ad-hoc distribution will take care of a lot of the
issues. My understanding is anyone can develop any application and install it
on their own phone and up to 100 other users, without authority from Apple.
You save the $99 fee, and you can make whatever you like.

~~~
tlrobinson
Presumably you can distribute the source and recompile for an infinite number
of iPhones.

------
axod
This is really a ridiculous article if you can call it that. "iPhone won't
play patent- and DRM-free formats like Ogg Vorbis and Theora."

Why do I care that a few cents of the price of my iPhone went in licensing the
mp3 format from "Thomson Multimedia and Fraunhofer IIS-A". As a user, it plays
mp3 files. Which is all anyone cares about.

If it _only_ played DRM files I'd have a problem with it and wouldn't buy it.

Looks like there could be a long wait for the new iPhone in the UK as it seems
to be pretty scarce.

~~~
yummyfajitas
I have quite a few ogg files. Converting to mp3 before using on an mp3 player
is very annoying.

Plus, libogg is BSD licensed, so why not include it?

~~~
jws
ogg has not been legally tested. The developers read through what they believe
to be the relevant patents and declared themselves clean, but no one knows
what those patent holders think and what patents may have been missed. Only
when a company with deep pockets releases ogg vorbis in a high volume device
will we see who is waiting to come out of the woodwork and start a patent
suit.

For the tiny and shrinking set of people that want ogg vorbis, it isn't worth
the legal risk.

(Sidebar: I don't mean to imply that vorbis is vanishing now, but as storage
gets cheaper I expect mp3, aac, and vorbis to drift away in favor of lossless
formats which are not subject to the body of psychoacoustical patents. I rip
at 192kbps AAC or 256kbps mp3. Lossless encoders end up around 750kbps. I
never fill my 8G iPhone. Using lossless on a 32G device would be a no brainer
decision.)

~~~
gommm
amen to lossless support on the iphone, I'm tired of reencoding my flac files

------
st3fan
Some of us just want a really nice phone with great applications. Go iPhone!
It's as simple as that.

------
auston
Can any iPhone developers chime in on the location tracking?

Is it not so that ONLY one application can track your location at a time?
Additionally, when using a downloaded iPhone application you should assume
that it will access some form of your personal data, in most cases that is the
utility of the application.

~~~
tstegart
You have to opt in to location based tracking (although the cell phone company
can always know where your phone is, and give it to law enforcement). If you
turn off location based tracking, I believe all applications are supposed to
reset and stop tracking you and ask for your permission again. We can always
ask people to test this to see if developers have implemented it properly.

------
Tichy
Is it true that the iPhone can't play .ogg? Couldn't you write an app for the
iPhone that plays ogg, or would that be impossible because the audio files
can't be accessed from applications?

I've started using ogg again because I couldn't be bothered to make my Linux
system encode MP3s...

~~~
allenbrunson
practically speaking, it would be all but impossible for a third party to add
ogg support to the iPhone. you get audio files onto the device via iTunes, so
it would have to be changed as well.

------
matthewking
Anyone else think the FreeRunner looks like crap? Aside from the hardware, the
UI looks like Windows Mobile on the top, and iphone on the bottom..

~~~
SwellJoe
I don't think it looks all that bad. But, I couldn't figure out how to buy and
use one. There seems to be no actual way to purchase one, or any way to
activate it with any carriers. I'm sure it's possible...but it's not obvious
to me how to do it.

~~~
jrockway
_But, I couldn't figure out how to buy and use one. There seems to be no
actual way to purchase one, or any way to activate it with any carriers._

Here's the page to buy it from:

<http://us.direct.openmoko.com/products/neo-freerunner>

(It's linked from the main page, BTW.)

Once you have one, get a SIM card from your carrier, and put it in the phone.
That's it; GSM doesn't require that your carrier has any idea what phone you
have. They only care about the SIM card.

~~~
SwellJoe
_(It's linked from the main page, BTW.)_

Yes, I clicked that link. And then what? There is no "add to cart" button
anywhere on that page. Maybe you're far better at browsing a website than I
am, but I simply could find no way to click on something I wanted to buy, find
out the price, and fill in my billing details.

------
Mistone
that free runner neo phone is ugly and obviously far far from being market
ready, sorry fsf but your alternative looks lame.

~~~
jrockway
I have the older version (Neo1973). It works fine; I can browse the web and
make phone calls. The browser is WebKit-based, so it's basically like the
iPhone browser. Same codebase.

But basically, OpenMoko's icons aren't quite as pretty as the iPhone's. I know
most people value icons more than their freedom, so that's why the iPhone is
doing so well.

~~~
aditya
jr, what image and ui are you running? it's almost impossible to make calls on
a 1973 (or FR) from what I've tried so far.

FSO (<http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FSO>) is the only thing that reliably lets
me make calls but that's ALL it does.

What're you using?

