
Ask HN: How do I secure my future? - elderK
Hi HN,<p>I&#x27;m a self-taught programmer and I&#x27;m finding myself increasingly concerned
about my future.<p>I&#x27;ve had several jobs in the past, all of which were in the finance industry.
Back-end software for eCommerce, point-of-sale systems and such.<p>The last company I worked for had a very toxic environment. Extremely
micromanaged, abusive, etc.<p>The reason I&#x27;m concerned about the future is that I&#x27;ve just turned thirty, I
have no formal qualifications and I&#x27;m unlikely to acquire an honest reference
from my last employer.<p>Much of the interesting things I&#x27;ve worked on, the things that have taught me
the most, that taught me the value of many idioms and patterns, were all done
in my spare time. The kind of things I&#x27;m passionate about are those that are
often unseen such as compilers, data structures of various kinds, device
drivers, kernels, linkers and memory management systems.<p>I&#x27;m afraid that I&#x27;ll be ignored because I don&#x27;t possess a degree and I don&#x27;t
have an extensive work history.<p>Does our industry still accept those who taught themselves?<p>Is the initiative and determination of a self-taught developer still worth
anything?<p>What can I do to secure my future?
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aphextron
Go get a degree. Preferably ABET accredited. Im in literally the exact same
boat as you. Years of self taught experience with no degree (a high school
dropout, no less) but constantly apprehensive about "hitting the wall" in
terms of career advancement. The best decison I ever made was to start taking
math classes at the local community college, and eventually start working on
an engineering degree. You will be amazed at how much you didn't know you
didn't know. Its quite hard to swallow your pride and sit in a classroom full
of teenagers, feeling like an idiot fumbling over undergrad math problems. But
once you get over that it's totally worth it.

~~~
ionvortex
I'm going to disagree with that ABET part being preferable. Stanford's CS
program isn't ABET. It's an outdated notion and very limiting to CS programs,
since it forces certain classes instead of potentially more modern ones. Also
very few employers will care. Just go to a good non profit school with a real
campus.

Mechanical engineering would be different since it is far more regulated than
software development.

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jwilliams
A healthy Github account and some writing goes a long way. Shows your skill
and definitely shows initiative and determination.

Whilst having a poor reference isn't great, many people in tech understand
toxic workplaces. Sadly, we've all been there. For a new job, I don't think
it's good to dwell too much on negative past experience, but it's possible to
frame it up in a way people will get.

It's never been a better time to be a software engineer. Keep positive and
show off the passion you mentioned.

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texteller
Never STOP learning, keep reading, meet and network with people each and every
day. When you are updating yourself, your future too gets updated. Simple.

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contingencies
Degree doesn't matter unless you are going for further education (masters /
PhD) or a large corporate position.

Work history matters, but experience more so. It doesn't matter where you get
the experience.

Basically look for employers that respect execution, execute, and you will not
have a problem.

You can also try doing something for yourself, but if you are concerned about
income you probably don't have the financial means yet to risk losing on a
failed venture, so just keep it as a back pocket option for the future.

~~~
eeZah7Ux
> Work history matters, but experience more so

Good employers value knowledge and skills, not experience.

Apply to well-known tech companies with lengthy interview process: they don't
care much about your past.

~~~
BjoernKW
I'm not entirely sure if this generally true but if it is that doesn't sound
like a particularly good approach.

Experience matters. There's only so much you can learn at school. I'd prefer
an engineer who has already solved real-world problems to someone who's
exceptionally good at solving whiteboard puzzles anytime.

~~~
elderK
Hey there Bjoern,

Would it be sufficient to have solved many different types of problems
encountered while working on side projects?

~~~
BjoernKW
Sure. As far as I'm concerned experience is experience no matter where that
experience comes from.

One thing to keep in mind though is that part and parcel of solving
engineering problems at scale is working and communicating with others. If
you've been working on these side projects all by yourself then that
experience might not be as valuable as if you had worked on these problems in
a team. This certainly is possible with side projects, too of course, like
when you have an open source project with several contributors or a side
project with several remote developers. It's just that the term 'side project'
usually implies a one-man-band doing everything by him- or herself.

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usgroup
Don't worry too much about references. Tell people at interviews you left your
last job because the environment was toxic. There's no shame in that.

GitHub is good. Make a habit of making your work public. Go to meet ups and
talk to people directly: job interview is not the only way to get a job.

Use your writing and your code as your cv. It's better than any other cv.

Don't fixate in this idea that if you don't have a degree then you're not
worth a damn . If you were a doctor I'd say , yeah ok. But programming is not
that . If you could prove you could do open heart surgery more effectively
than most surgeons then why wouldn't I let you operate on me? Such proof
outstanding , doctors need degrees. Programmers have very solid proof outside
the degree .

~~~
elderK
That's good to know.

I have an active BitBucket.

It doesn't contain everything I've ever done but it has the most recent stuff
I've been working on.

Would it be worthwhile having a link to the BitBucket present on my CV?

~~~
usgroup
Absolutely. And have a LinkedIn account that's up to date.

Honesty and humility are respected values precisely because they are
predictable and can be relied upon.

Be good at what you do. Be able to prove it. Be honest.

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auganov
Don't write-off the reference just yet. Obviously, idk how bad it was, but at
the end of the day most people understand looking for a job isn't fun.

Don't give up. Going to be okay!

~~~
elderK
Thank you!

I'll try and keep the faith :)

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SirLJ
The only place to make real money is the stock market and the money are the
ticket to secure future and freedom...

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mrbackup
You have at least 30 years of working life ahead of you, why not get a degree?

