

Interactive map shows where native and new Berliners live - moklick
http://interaktiv.morgenpost.de/zugezogene-in-berlin

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CalRobert
As someone who moved to a new country, the city center was the only place I
really wanted to live because it's the best place from which to get to know a
city and make connections. The difference between "I live in the burbs and
take the train in to the city center now and then" and "I can walk out my
front door and be in a museum, my choice of several pubs, etc. in 5 minutes"
is huge. It's also handy for meeting people; you can build networks more
easily than when you're geographically separated. Those same networks can be
preserved after moving, though.

Now that I've been here for a couple years I'd be fine with a nearby (within
2km of city center) suburb, but that's only because I'm familiar enough with
the city that I don't need to explore it daily. If I had started off living in
those burbs I would know the city much less than I do now.

~~~
moron4hire
I haven't been to Berlin, so I don't know exactly how big it is, but one would
not typically call "within 2km of city center" a suburb. One would typically
call 2km from a city center, "the next neighborhood over in the city".

Suburbs aren't a "not the cool, trendy area of a city" thing. They are a
driving thing. They are completely different towns, not other neighborhoods in
the same city. It doesn't count if you can easily walk the distance every day.
Think more like 20km.

I mean, really, Millenium Park in Chicago is almost 2km long. The National
Mall in Washington DC is about 3km. Central Park in New York City is over 4km
long.

~~~
xxpor
>I haven't been to Berlin, so I don't know exactly how big it is, but one
would not typically call "within 2km of city center" a suburb. One would
typically call 2km from a city center, "the next neighborhood over in the
city".

This is an American/Canadian vs Australian (and possibly European) thing.

From speaking to Australians, Downtown is the Central Business District, and
everything else is a suburb.

~~~
moron4hire
It seems weird to think of anything that is a part of the urban area be called
sub-urban.

~~~
PavlovsCat
I'm not sure where one would place the "center" of Berlin, but Berlin-Mitte
(which you could translate as "Berlin Central") is really mostly banks and
insurance companies, tourists and expensive hotels. It's not very urban, or
alive. It's just... _there_.

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donmb
The main problem of this development is the fact that more and more old local
people cannot afford the rents anymore and have to move to the suburbs
although they have lived in the centre for almost all of their life. A Kiez is
changing very quickly: it starts with an abandoned Kiez which everybody avoids
- low rents etc. Then creatives come and a scene is developing. Bars/Clubs etc
get attracted, more people move there, rents rise, bars/clubs close again ->
scene moves somewhere else. Funny is that a lot of my friends who have moved
to Berlin complain that their local club/pub has closed (cannot afford rent
anymore) but in fact they're responsible for it. Atm Berlin is still an
awesome place with a lot of independent spirit but that might dramatically
change within the next 10 years.

~~~
zura
Hm, is it normal in Berlin to live at some place for many years and still
renting the apartment? Instead of buying/owning it...

~~~
zurn
Yes, it's one of the places that legislates favourable rules toward the lodger
(stringent conditions on rent increases or lease terminations etc). Lots of
people even sublet their favourably gotten rental flats onward for more money.

Although if people owned the flats, the lower income senior citizens would
still move: they would find it expedient to sell their now-expensive flats and
put the money to living expenses (or grandchildren or travel or assisted
living etc). This is happening in other growing cities around the world.

edit: It seems to me renting (or some other form of "right-of-occupancy"
arrangement) is actually the desireable choice for most situations. Investing
hundreds of thousands in a single unit of housing is not a good fit for most
people's savings/investment plan - you'd want to diversify, and possibly hedge
against things going downhill in your neighbourhood. If rent market works
well, and taxation and rental terms work out, it's better for everybody to
just pay for the apartment's financing and maintenance plus a small profit
margin in the form of rent.

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flexie
Interesting. I wonder whether you wouldn't find the same pattern in many other
metropoles. On Manhattan, when I lived there, everybody seemed to be from
somewhere else.

Maybe this is just a function of the facts that a city center is an expensive
place to raise kids and that few aim at living in another city's suburbs; if
you are moving to some suburb of another city you might as well just stay in
the suburb of the city you are currently in.

~~~
BjoernKW
I think you can compare the centre of Berlin (roughly Mitte, Charlottenburg,
Tiergarten, Friedrichshain-Kreuzberg, Prenzlauer Berg) to Manhattan in that
respect.

Those are the areas where the interesting stuff is happening that makes moving
to the city worthwhile. As for Berlin most of the startup activity and
economic growth is happening in that area. In addition to that all the
important government institutions are located in that area, too.

Rapid transit is an important factor as well. Inside the S-Bahn-Ring you can
get around really fast whereas getting from say Köpenick to the inner city
takes quite some time.

I suppose the areas around Manhattan or Greater New York as a whole would show
a very similar picture.

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iuguy
As someone who attempted (and failed) to move to Prenzlauer Berg earlier this
year, I can honestly say that it was really rare to interact with native
Berliners because they were pretty hard to find. When I stayed in Wedding
there were plenty of what you and I might call native Berliners, but locals
wouldn't (mostly of Turkish descent), although I did find more in the
Hansaviertel than the stats would show, but I think I was better at
interacting with local people by then.

~~~
TillE
Bear in mind that this map is simply showing people born in Berlin (which
would include second generation immigrants) vs. elsewhere (including other
Germans).

If you're interested in non-Germans in Berlin, that's this map:

[http://interaktiv.morgenpost.de/migranten-in-
berlin/](http://interaktiv.morgenpost.de/migranten-in-berlin/)

~~~
guard-of-terra
It's a curious sight: Russians seem to be very correlated with East Berlin
(having arrived after the wall fell anyway).

And e.g. Poles don't.

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yantramanav
The influx of new Berliners in Mitte, Neukölln, Schöneberg etc is not totally
unexpected. A lot of new residents moved there in the past 4-5 years and
they're much sought after.

What's interesting here is the influx of new Berliners in areas like
Lichtenberg and Marzahn. These were traditionally perceived as DDR remnants
and full of neo-nazis.

Also what's happening in Tegeler Forst kiez?

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TeeWEE
In amsterdam this is also happening to my knowledge. The main reason is that
the city center is becoming too expensive for native-amsterdammers with a
medium income to live. Lots of high-income (often expats) are willing to pay
more for living in the city center.

~~~
guard-of-terra
It seems that we have a global undersupply of city centers and oversupply of
boring places noone really wants to live in.

~~~
TillE
That's true in the US, but not necessarily elsewhere. There are lots of great
cities in Germany which could stand for some growth; people have been talking
about Leipzig recently.

~~~
SyneRyder
Deutsche Welle just did a series on Leipzig ("Hypezig") on their Made In
Germany show this week:

[http://www.dw.de/hypezig-the-new-start-up-
zone/av-18039297](http://www.dw.de/hypezig-the-new-start-up-zone/av-18039297)

