
Ask HN: Fixing a horrible diet as a programmer - baddiet
Lately, I've been paying more attention to how much work I'm doing as a programmer.  I get things done, but I feel bedraggled.  I'm 25, but I lack the energy you figure a 25 year old would have.  The cause?  My diet sucks.  I typically wake up, start coding, have a very meager breakfast, eat lunch fairly late, and then sometimes, have a big dinner (steak, etc.).  My energy levels are never consistent, however.  I do know I have a high metabolism, though, and this clashes with any serious eating I'll do even on the days where I eat three meals a day.  In the event that I do eat something heavy, less than 2-3 hours later, I will feel as if I haven't eaten.<p>I've been told to keep snacking (fruits, nuts, etc.) throughout the day, but I never seem to actually be eating enough to not feel washed out.  The key is that I never actually feel <i>hungry</i>, though.<p>I've been trying to figure out how I can do better with my diet as a programmer.  A lot of things I've read are aimed at <i>losing</i> weight.  I've been the same weight +/- 5lbs. for the last 10 years at least, so that's not my concern.<p>Does anybody have any recommendations for foods programmers should be eating to maintain energy levels?
======
maxawaytoolong
Are you sure it's your diet? I'd investigate lack of exercise before worrying
about diet.

In my experience the act of sitting in front of a computer all day just makes
me feel lethargic, no matter what I eat. I went on various forms super healthy
diets and none of them really changed anything. I generally felt much better
when I went to the gym for 2 hours before going into work. However, I felt
even better on the days I didn't go into work at all.

I can eat garbage like nachos, beer, french fries and go snowboarding all day
and feel on top of the world. I determined that sitting around all day is a
slow death, and my body was letting me know.

~~~
evo_9
This works great up until about 35... after that you just can't put that kind
of 'fuel' into your system and snowboard all day and feel great. For me (post
35)I like to eat a good omelet before I hit the terrain park; plus I don't
have to stop for lunch with a belly full of protein.

~~~
maxawaytoolong
I am over 35 and feel fine putting that kind of fuel into my system when I go
snowboarding.

~~~
evo_9
Cool, are you in Colorado? We should ride sometime.

Each there own on 'fuel' - that doesn't work for me and truthfully I just
don't have the urge for that kind of food much these days, esp. if I'm about
to go hiking, boarding, hockey, etc.

~~~
maxawaytoolong
I have never been to Colorado. I mostly snowboard at Mammoth, but I moved to
the east coast. I really only eat the nachos because that's the easiest thing
to get at the lodge...

~~~
evo_9
Ah, gotcha, that's cool. Well if you are ever in Colorado ping me, seriously
awesome mountains to ride and echo mountain is (I think) the first terrain
park only hill in north america. fun stuff and a helluva workout too.

------
ronnieCA
My first suggestion would be bloodwork. If you are deficient in certain
minerals, it can really screw with your energy levels. As the adage goes, you
can't improve what you can't measure. Start with a baseline, to make sure
there isn't any particular deficiency you are fighting against.

After that, it's all about balance. I use the iPhone app 'Lose It', which
tells me my percentage of calories from fat, protein, carbs and alcohol. It
also provides a companion website which shows you graphs of your intake,
weight, etc... I find having my dietary data available has been the single
biggest improvement in my ability to manage my weight. Though in my case, I've
been desperately trying to loose weight. I have lost, and kept off 35lbs over
the past year. (No, I have no connection to Lose It, just a very satisfied
user).

~~~
evo_9
Blood-work/full physical is a good suggestion to start with.

I'd second the need for working out, or at the very minimum getting 'active'.
You might find it's better to do something like play a sport, or take up
swimming versus 'working out'.

I would also recommend taking a multi-vitiamin. Hit your local WholeFoods or
Vitamin Cottage (or something similar).

Other than that, adjusting/being more conscientious of what you're eating is
something else to get on. Making small adjustments can go along way. For
example, I always eat a salad with my dinners - just a habit of my up-
bringing. You might consider ordering fruit or even coleslaw instead of fries.
Or brewed tea instead of a Coke.

Making small adjustments like this goes a long way. Once you get the ball
rolling in the other (healthy) direction it gets easier; suddenly that rock-
climbing class you always thought about doing seems like a fun way to spend
Saturday instead of more inactivity.

Of course it's all about balance... inactivity can be a good thing if you are
doing things like learning to play an instrument, reading a good book, or just
enjoying your family/friends company.

------
robg
Two places to start:

1\. Get your Vitamin D levels checked. I started to run into the same problems
in my 20's and as soon as my Vitamin D levels were checked and supplemented,
I've been all set. But it took over five years before I got to that point.

2\. Don't buy packaged foods and start eating whole grains. You need foods
that digest more slowly and refined grains and sugars need not apply. I highly
recommend quinoa. I can have a bowl for breakfast and I'm good to go all day.
It can be prepared with fruits and nuts or vegetables and yogurt. Also look
into steel cut oats.

------
ohyes
My metabolism is similar, unless i am eating something (like pasta) that
causes my blood sugar to seriously spike, I will not feel hungry, I will just
kind of start to drag as the day goes on. The key is to train yourself to pick
up on when you are starting to drag, and then go eat something. (I'm still
working on this, it is something I have to consciously recognize).

I kind treat my diet as a dynamic programming problem. You have a few
variables to think about:

Price of food Speed of digestion Ease of preparation Nutritional content

You can give different categories of food different values, and kind of
estimate what things have better min/max heuristics.

Eggs are a very good morning food, for example, they're cheap, high in protein
(therefore nutritionally good and digest slowly), and they're easy to prepare.
Plain yogurt is similar.

You can do different things to get your ease of preparation and get price
down. I can make a fairly healthy chili with lean ground beef and various
veggies. It is mostly meat and fiber so it digests fairly slowly, and is high
in protein. Normally it is relatively intensive to make it (takes me a couple
of hours of time). However, if I make a big batch of it at the beginning of
the week, I can freeze part of it (in reusable serving size containers) and
eat it whenever. The preparation difficulty becomes similar to that of a tv
dinner but it is cheaper/healthier. (Similar can be done with other soup/stew
like concoctions).

I also keep a tin of nuts on my desk next to the computer if I need a quick
pick me up.

------
mcharkin
As some others below mentioned, I suggest getting in some exercise. Sitting in
front of a computer and coding/debugging/yelling at the computer all day gets
a bit stressful and its probably wears you out. Even a short 15 minute morning
routine worked great to to get me going to a have a good productive day.

I am somewhat in a similar "lack or energy situation". I used to be very good
about having consistent exercise schedule, I felt great and productive during
coding. Then about a month ans a half ago I have significantly increased the
amount of free time I spend on my side project which resulted in the sacrifice
of exercise, a more destabilized sleep cycle, and more stress.

The first 3 weeks after a change of schedule were ok, but then I was starting
to feel more tiered and a bit unfocused even after stabilizing my sleep. As
the only thing that changed about what I did was the exercises, I think that
played an important role.

As I have no knowledge in the magic of supplements and nutrition, but only
have my experience, I would suggest throwing in some regular exercises and see
if that help.

I do know that suggestion is a bit hard to start on, as I myself have so far
failed at dragging myself back to the gym after not being there in 1.5 months.

------
dpritchett
I find that my health is best when I pay attention to exercise, sleep, _and_
diet. If you work out hard enough you'll crave whole foods and uninterrupted
sleep. If you consistently give those things to yourself you'll feel great.

If you live on 5 hours of sleep a night and minimal exercise you won't feel
great no matter how healthy you eat.

------
HeyLaughingBoy
It's not so much the food as the consistency of eating. The advice you've
received is correct: eat small meals or healthy snacks periodically. And as
you've found out, it's easier said than done for some people.

I sympathize: I used to be ungodly thin, with a lightspeed metabolism and no
appetite at all -- often my first meal of the day would be dinner! When I
started lifting weights I _had_ to learn to eat enough or I was constantly
feeling faint. Get used to eating. Keep snacks already prepared and eat at
fixed times during the day. I ate a lot of apples, tuna sandwiches and lots &
lots of milk. IIRC, I even set an alarm to tell me when it was time until I
got used to eating regularly.

The good news is that once you've done it for a few weeks, it becomes second
nature.

~~~
baddiet_
Yeah, this is definitely what I go through. No appetite and eating dinner is
sometimes the first full meal of the day. Some days doing that doesn't affect
me. Others, there's a serious hit.

------
ococ
I suggest a Primal diet (meat, veggies, fruit, nuts) and drink water and
unsweetened tea. Avoid grains and beans. That sort of diet lets your body
adjust to your "proper" weight. For exercise, just do some body weight stuff,
pushups, plank, squats, and some walking... no crazy cardio.

For more info, I like marksdailyapple.com (no affiliation) They've got buku
info there and a very active community. I've been losing weight on it but I
was overweight... I've got all day energy though so it's a win-win for me.

The other recommendation is sunshine. Go walk around 1-2 times a day and soak
up the good stuff.

------
ifesdjeen
I'd say eating enough salad and meat, trying to avoid tons of bread and fried
stuff works well for me. Although, i still gain weight if i don't exercise.
Gym + sauna is an awesome beginning of the day. You work out in the morning,
blood is starting flowing and delivering oxygen to your brain, sauna &
sweating takes tons of toxic things out of your body, and you eventually start
feeling a whole lot better.

Although, having a chocolate bar when working long hours to keep your brain
awake works well too. From time to time, i'd say, but not on a daily basis.

------
ericabiz
The lack of energy rings a familiar bell to me. I started feeling tired after
I ate several years ago. Actually, not just tired, but wiped out. Exhausted. I
tried changing all sorts of things related to my diet, but finally saw a
nutritionist and doctor who were able to run some tests.

A stool test and a genetic test confirmed Celiac disease--meaning my body was
having an autoimmune reaction to eating wheat, barley, rye, and (non-certified
gluten free) oats. Celiac disease/gluten intolerance is NOT an allergy and
will not show up on a typical food allergy test.

If you're having fatigue after you eat, I cannot recommend strongly enough
that you see your doctor and specifically request a stool test and genetic
test for Celiac disease. (There's also a blood test, but it doesn't work for
everyone.) You may find you have it--1 in 133 of us do, but in America 95% go
undiagnosed. Or you may find you have its lesser form, gluten intolerance.

The only cure is to completely 100% avoid gluten. It is tricky, but well worth
it in terms of energy.

I also suggest that anyone who has Type I diabetes, Crohn's, colitis, lupus,
or general digestive issues get tested for Celiac/gluten intolerance as well
(via stool test if at all possible.) The tests are painless and if you find
out you do have it, other weird symptoms like fatigue and joint pain may
disappear if you eliminate gluten.

Celiac disease and gluten intolerance are genetic, so if you get tested and
it's positive, your family members should test, too, even if they have
different symptoms or no symptoms.

------
joshklein
The first step is to understand what biological processes affect hunger and
energy levels. I'm going to butcher the details for simplicity's sake, so
please do further research yourself.

You get hungry and/or tired because your blood sugar is too low, and your
cells are craving some energy. So you eat, and your blood sugar rises. Your
body then produces the insulin to turn that blood sugar into usable energy in
your cells, and you regulate to a normal, satiated, energetic state for
awhile, until your blood sugar starts to drop, and you become hungry and/or
tired again.

The reason snacks are recommended is because it's not just what you eat, but
how you eat it. If you spike your blood sugar (e.g. eat a bag of candy), your
insulin will also spike, reducing your blood sugar to "I'm hungry and tired"
levels again before you're actually in need of more food. It's a regulatory
system, so your body overcompensates when you introduce a shock to the system.

It will take you time to adjust to a better system, because you're purging
your habitual behaviors, and your body will resist this change even though you
know it is beneficial.

I highly recommend looking into the "south beach diet". The only "diet" part
of it is the first two weeks, when you effectively quit simple and refined
carbohydrates (which break down into blood sugar far more quickly than fats
and proteins, and therefore create spikes in your regulatory system), and
break the addiction you have to an unhealthy cycle. You'll have to force
yourself to eat protein in the morning, eat when you're not hungry, eat
vegetables, and generally retrain your body with all the normal "diet"
behavior.

You only have to do this for 2 weeks (and it's not too hard to do any diet for
2 weeks). After that, you've effectively returned your system back to a normal
state. Then it becomes about re-introducing a lot of the things you enjoy, but
approaching them with a full understanding of how your body is processing
them.

This, of course, assumes your problem really is nutrition. Sleep cycles (and
deprivation), exercise, light exposure, and more serious medical conditions
(see your doctor, I am not one!) can also be contributing factors.

I know you didn't say you wanted to lose weight, but I want to share that the
south beach "diet" (really, "lifestyle") helped me lose weight and, far more
importantly, keep it off for the past 3+ years.

------
baddiet_
Thanks for all of the suggestions so far.

I'll admit I don't exercise nearly as much as I used to. After college, I
moved from a big city where everything was within walking distance to one
where a car is necessary for everything--no widespread public transportation
and not bike-friendly. In that, I've totally fallen off my walking regimen.
Out of boredom back in the city, I'd walk 2-3 miles a day (even though a
perfectly good train system was in place) and come back feeling great. I never
realized it mattered so much!

My eating habits weren't entirely different then, but I got out more and did
walk so the exercise was there.

Will still go visit a dietician, but also go back to walking and taking all of
these food suggestions to heart.

------
mast
I'll add my two cents.

Have a good substantial but well balanced breakfast. There is a reason they
say it is the most important meal of the day. Assume that on average that you
have dinner around 5pm or 6pm. Skipping breakfast or having a meager breakfast
and then a late lunch (1pm or 2pm?) means you haven't eaten for about 20 hrs.
A big dinner won't carry you through that much time.

I'll also agree with the other suggestions I've seen. Consult your doctor, and
make sure you're getting enough sunlight and physical activity.

Try to balance your life.

~~~
baddiet_
Agreed. I usually eat dinner around 7pm. Scrape by with barely a breakfast or
apparently not enough of one, and then won't go out for lunch until 2-3pm. At
that point my stomach isn't growling, but I feel spacey. Thanks for the
suggestion for balance. ...lacking this, too.

------
limedaring
Lots of good suggestions here.

Specifically for breakfast, there are a lot of ways of getting an awesome
breakfast without spending a lot of time. Spend one evening making eggs in
muffin tins ([http://www.suite101.com/content/mini-vegetable-
frittatas-a27...](http://www.suite101.com/content/mini-vegetable-
frittatas-a27561)), freeze them, then in the morning, pull out two and
microwave. Getting a good breakfast + exercise (outside, in the sun) should
help a lot with energy levels.

------
da5e
Keep the fruits and nuts and ditch the steak. But a big yes on the exercise.
Consider yourself lucky that you don't have to get into a "food fight" with
yourself.

------
Zev
Its the same way for me. I have to consciously decide to eat something good.
Otherwise, I'll fill up on small things that don't give me much energy.

I try to have an apple or a few handfuls of grapes a day. They're small and
only take a few minutes to eat. Plus, my energy goes right up after the meal,
in a way that feels good. Not all jittery, like after a double espresso.

------
eof
The best thing you can add to your diet is a good omega three supplement. The
best, unsynthesized cold-pressed fish oil you can find.

You will find your mind more alert within hours of first taking it if you are
like 95% of westerners that are severely lacking this essential brain food.

Also, you probably need more exercise, less coffee, and more water.

------
hugh3
Since you haven't really specified what you eat (apart from the fact that you
have a meagre breakfast and sometimes steak for dinner), it's hard to know
where to start. But I'd agree with maxawaytoolong about thinking about
exercise if there's nothing obviously wrong with your diet.

Or, y'know, drink more coffee.

~~~
baddiet_
As far as food in any given day, I'm likely to have a grilled chicken salad
for lunch (not consistently, though). Dinner maybe 3-4 days of the week (which
are often big). Usually no breakfast or something unfulfilling from McDonalds
when I do eat. I've started adding in raisins and various fruit to start the
day, but I'm wondering how many apples do I have to eat in order to feel some
kind of way! Perhaps, I'm wrong for thinking I should always be full.

------
forgottenpaswrd
I would recommend you to exercise everyday, as important as diet to get
energy, just choose what you like to do and do it everyday.

Start very very gradually, first day just get out of the office, second day
one minute, trird two.... Take 30 days for making it a routine. You will feel
stronger and happier.

------
troutwine
While I'm sure we all have opinions on the matter, you might do well to
consult a nutritionist or your primary care doctor. They'll know your case
history, your peculiar health quirks and can give much better advice than the
lot of us.

------
sirwitti
maxawaytoolong could be right. very often people (read "me") feel like have no
energy because of too little physical activity.

your body always gives you what it thinks it need (=which is what you demand,
or not, from it). so doing some sports may solve that issue quite easily.

for the diet: if you don´t eat for long amounts of time like more than 4
hours, that´s not good, ecspacially if you eat big amounts afterwards.

another important thing is what you eat. try to cook something. fast food is
just as bad as easy and comfortable it is. hope that helps a bit :)

