
The false god of coffee - alexandros
http://www.kk.org/quantifiedself/2009/10/the-false-god-of-coffee.php
======
btilly
Caffeine is a mixed blessing. It is a stimulant, which helps you wake up. But
your body compensates for the expectation of stimulation. Which means that a
coffee drinker after coffee is about like a non-coffee drinker without coffee.

~~~
AndrewDucker
And this is why I gave up coffee. Nowadays I have absolutely no caffeine
tolerance - so I can have a coke when out dancing and it keeps me going.
Unlike ye olden days, when it had no effect whatsoever.

~~~
obiefernandez
Try slamming a red bull next time you go dancing. Great legal high ;)

~~~
clistctrl
man I wish a red bull worked, I can drink 4 and the only thing I feel is my
heart hurting (I don't drink Red Bull any more btw, that heart thing freaks me
out)

~~~
sjs
Red bull is not the strongest energy drink at all. I need to chug 2 of the
normal size cans in succession to feel anything at all. Monster and Rock Star
are fantastic if you need to keep up physical work but I worry about their
effect on my heart after reading about how bad they can be.

[http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSSYD58461200808...](http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSSYD5846120080815)

~~~
rudyfink
Here is a sortable table of caffeine amounts in products. The numbers are
quite striking.

<http://www.energyfiend.com/the-caffeine-database>

For example (mg caff / oz):

Red Bull = 80 / 8.46

Rockstar = 160 / 16

Coca Cola = 35 / 12

Fixx Energy = 400 / .17

~~~
sjs
I haven't drank Red Bull in a few years so things may have changed.

I checked the amounts of caffeine and other "medicinal" ingredients myself
when I was doing physical labour and drank them regularly.

------
amoeba
The comments on the post are mind-numbing. People need to learn to take things
as they are.

~~~
guitarjunkie
unreal. You'd think it was comment section on youtube.

------
vessenes
I love the tracking of productivity idea. It's interesting, I also frequently
use coffee to 'concentrate', but a little differently than you. I'll have tea
or sometimes coffee in the morning (one cup) and if I'm not sleep deprived,
that's it. If I need to work or focus on a task in the afternoon, I'll get a
large coffee, clear my area of all distractions, get comfortable and try and
crank through for as long as it takes. This is sort of a different way than
you use coffee.

For a while I went off coffee completely because it was causing mood swings
and serious blood sugar problems. Green tea changed my life, and I frequently
felt it was almost all upside as compared to coffee. I wonder why I got off
that bandwagon?

~~~
jodrellblank
How did you notice/know you were having serious blood sugar problems?

~~~
vessenes
Eating binges and weird physical symptoms made me realize something was likely
wrong, that started me into research about hypoglycemia, and tracking
symptoms.

My old breakfasts: coffee, sometimes a sweet. Result: by noon, I thought I was
starving, but it was really just extremely low blood sugar, sort of like a
diabetic would feel after the insulin injection. Moody, Shaky hands, etc.
Especially if I had sugar in the coffee or a second one at 10:30.

Result would be sugary lunch to spike bloodsugar back up, and similar problems
at dinner.

Solution: More fiber at breakfast, less sweets, decaf coffee or green tea.
Interestingly, I can now live through a breakfast like that with significantly
better results, partly because I know how to get back on track, and perhaps
because my bodies not in such a yo-yo type situation any more.

------
awolf
Coffee stimulates brain activity across the board whereas ADD treatments such
as Ritalin and Adderall target just the specific parts of the brain used in
learning and for concentration.

So does juicing your entire brain increase concentration? My money is on no.
It just gives a good energized feeling and the illusion of being more focused.

Drink coffee because you enjoy it not as a productivity hack.

~~~
jamesbritt
"Ritalin and Adderall target just the specific parts of the brain used in
learning and for concentration."

Ritalin (methylphenidate) boosts dopamine; Adderall (amphetamine and
dextroamphetamin) ups the level of dopamine and norepinephrine. Caffeine
effects levels of adenosine and dopamine.

There is nothing targeted about this, nor do the chemicals only work on select
parts of the brain. Now, perhaps for certain practical effects, boosts in
dopamine and norepinephrine are better than reducing adenosine and boosting
adrenaline.

But brain chemistry is complex, and it's simplistic to think of any of these
things as specifically targeted to parts of the brain used for specific tasks
or behavior.

~~~
awolf
My understanding is that Adderall amplifies brain activity in whatever part of
the brain you are using. Coffee just stimulates everything.

Of course that's a major simplification, but this is what I mean by
"targetted".

~~~
jamesbritt
At what point are you not using your entire brain?

------
josefresco
I'm considering quitting coffee for another reason; my wife tells me it gives
me a wicked case of bad breath.

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

~~~
tigerthink
Try mint flavored coffee?

~~~
olliesaunders
Does that exist? Sorry, I can't always tell if things are jokes.

------
arketyp
I dunno. I drink coffee because it good.

~~~
JshWright
Home roast, decent grinder, and a press pot... Doesn't get much better...

While I do drink coffee for the caffeine (and experience withdrawal symptoms
without it), a substantial motivation is that I simply enjoy the flavor of a
properly made cup of coffee.

~~~
pg
When I stopped drinking caffeinated coffee, I lost my taste for coffee, but
developed a great interest in tea.

~~~
swombat
Caffeine addiction transference?

~~~
percept
It's like methadone.

I quit coffee every once in a while and it usually takes a couple of days to
return to normal functioning. The tea helps.

BTW there are some interesting coffee documentaries shown occasionally on the
tube (available on Netflix too).

------
fjabre
I've always found that tea, not coffee, has enabled me to concentrate more
clearly on the task at hand..

~~~
gcheong
Data?

~~~
coolnewtoy
<http://www.amazing-green-tea.com/theanine-and-caffeine.html>

Many people reach for a cup of coffee when they need to concentrate. People
with flagging focus might, however, get more bang for their buck with a cup of
tea.

A 2007 study conducted by Doctor Foxe found that theanine and caffeine
synergise to boost the activity of brain neurons.

~~~
fjabre
Thanks for this. I didn't have any data other than what I experienced.

With coffee I just feel energized but that energy isn't directed. With good
tea (the loose leaf kind) I feel both energized and focused. I could never
explain it but the article above might be the reason.

------
keefe
Bit of a waste of time. Caffeine is a stimulant, a real drug just like any
other. A drug being legal does not make it less a drug. Caffeine tolerance is
real and involves changes to brain chemistry :
[http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/113369008/abstrac...](http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/113369008/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0)
Coffee delivers high doses of caffeine, which works by stimulating adrenaline
<http://health.howstuffworks.com/caffeine-awake.htm> production... so if you
stay hooked on a stimulant for a long time, of course it has a negative effect
on your performance.

------
rabidgnat
I've been experimenting with coffee for a few years now, but I've never tried
to quantify my results quite like the author did.

I've been everywhere from 1 cup a day to gross overconsumption. In the end,
coffee doesn't seem to significantly impact my concentration. If I get 8 hours
of sleep, don't drink any alcohol the day before, and stay hydrated, I can be
productive no matter how much coffee I drink. Even more, I found that Morning
Coffee makes me dehydrated and irritable, so I usually drink a cup or two
after lunch to keep myself going. On occasion I've quit for 2 week intervals
just to start from scratch, but quite frankly I'm addicted and never mind
starting up again :)

~~~
gord
The body adjusts to a large degree.. I could drink a coffee and easily fall
asleep, when I was drinking 6 cups per day.

~~~
euccastro
Quote: <http://www.supermemo.com/articles/sleep.htm>

As it has a profound effect on the central nervous system by blocking
adenosine receptors, caffeine is widely used to tackle drowsiness. However,
majority of people little realize that it works well in your struggle with the
adenosine-related homeostatic component of sleepiness, while it is quite
inefficient in overcoming circadian sleepiness! Moreover, used against the
latter, it can actually be quite unhealthy!

If you abuse caffeine or use it at the time when your body clock tells you
bedtime, you will only experience the symptoms that gave caffeine all that bad
rap. These include: heart arrhythmia, irritability, overwhelming tiredness,
depression, and a typical coffee abuser's "sickness in the stomach". No wonder
the popular myth says that coffee is bad for health and can contribute to a
heart disease. _

------
buugs
Did that vacuum coffee pot look like some sort of weird drug setup to anyone
else? I had never seen something like that.

I don't really drink coffee except maybe 1 cup after dinner once a month or
something along those lines but I do drink black tea which probably still does
have about as much caffeine as half a cup of normal coffee. However the times
that I drink tea probably differ from the times that people drink coffee,
rather than drinking it in the morning I usually drink one cup around 5
o-clock.

~~~
rdtsc
The vacuum pot ( <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_coffee_maker>) appeals
to the geek in us. The brew is supposed to be more "pure".

I think just like with smoking, coffee brewing is a ritual and people enjoy
the ritual just as much as they enjoy the taste and the effects of coffee
itself.

I like tea. Recently I have gotten to like this strange black tea called pu-
erh (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pu-erh_tea>). I you like black tea, give it
a try it definetly has a unique flavor. Some people really like it, some
really hate it.

~~~
buugs
I have tried that tea but it was way off my usual tastes, thanks though.

It is a very interesting kind of tea though.

------
wrinklz
Twining's loose-leaf Earl Grey (the square yellow can) is the perfect coffee
replacement. With honey and milk, it pushes all the right buttons with minimal
sugar/caffeine bounce.

~~~
buugs
A very nice earl grey (if you like stronger tasting teas) is earl grey bravo
from adagio <http://www.adagio.com/black/earl_grey_bravo.html>

~~~
windsurfer
Oh my goodness that is so expensive.

~~~
silentbicycle
Seriously? $7 for 4 oz. tea is really not bad. Even rather expensive high end
green teas are much cheaper than (say) fine wines.

~~~
cpach
I bet most people don't drink two bottles of fine wine every day ;-)

~~~
silentbicycle
Well, touche, but that much tea could last a while. A couple ounces of tea is
like a couple _cases_ (not bottles) of wine, several pounds of coffee beans,
etc. I'm not sure exactly how long 4 oz. of tea would last (my wife and I
rotate through a couple different teas), but probably several weeks.

Good tea is cheap, you typically just mail-order a good quantity at a time and
keep it in an airtight tin. The samplers from Adagio are ~1 oz., and a great
way to try out several for a few dollars each.

~~~
Dove
Correct, really good tea _can_ be cheap. I am a fanatical tea drinker --
something like a gallon a day. And I find a 100 gm supply (3.5 oz) to go for
about a month. At teaspring.com, that much of a geniunely good Taiwanese
oolong (my favorite) costs about $20.

I don't know how much a month's supply of really good coffee costs for the
fanatical drinker, but I know my monthly budget sure wouldn't get you far at
Starbuck's . . .

------
gord
Recently took the plunge and went from 7 cups coffee plus 5 tea per day.. to
around 1 coffee and 2 tea per day.

First few days were very surreal.. equivalent to slight hangover. Drinking
lots of water seemed to help.

For me it was more some kind of subconscious routine habit that was too
addictive, rather than the actual caffeine fix.

I think I enjoy coffee more now I drink less of it. More of a treat, and I
make sure its a really good one, plunged or in an Italian pot (not instant).

~~~
pbhjpbhj
When I was working in an office all day I was so bored out my skull I'd go and
make a coffee for something to do that wasn't sitting at my desk. Result was
drinking lots of coffee. I switched to drinking hot squash (ie fruit cordial
mixed with hot water) and spiced teas without too much problem - few days of
headaches.

I'm thinking I need to cut back again but at the moment it's the chocolate I'm
craving, probably again for the caffeine but also for the sugar.

------
sonofjanoh
I thought coffee was an excuse for breaks. I drink when I'm bored or need a
short break. I have never ever felt that a coffee can give me a kick not even
when I had to drive for 2 days or learn for exams.

On the other hand if I find something really interesting and/or exciting it
can keep me awake till morning and I can't wait to get it solved not needing
any stimulant food or even going to the bathroom.

~~~
Mz
I know folks who have trouble giving up cigarettes in part because it's what
they do on breaks and there is a social element to it. I used to spend time
someplace where the entire staff seemed to smoke and smoking was about the
only break activity available. If you tried to quit and went out front to chat
with someone else on break, you could guarantee they were smoking. That made
it hard for anyone to successfully quit.

So I can see that being a factor with coffee in the work place.

------
JayNeely
Thanks for posting; I've also been withdrawing from coffee, primarily because
my tolerance has increased to the point where I no longer feel I'm getting
significant beneficial effects from it. This article has me thinking about
what the negative effects I may not have noticed are, and if I should extend
my "tolerance-reset" period into something more permanent.

~~~
Mz
FWIW: I use caffeine to help cope with allergies and as an albuterol
substitute because I am allergic to albuterol. I have noticed that some folks
who consume a lot of coffee make remarks that sound a lot like they are self-
medicating for some issue without consciously realizing it. This might be why
the author of the blog keeps coming up with some excuse to go back on coffee.
I find that addressing underlying health issues has cut my consumption of
caffeine without me having to do anything to intentionally try to curtail
caffeine specifically.

------
blhack
I'm surprised that nobody here has yet mentioned Yerba Matte.

I've never seen any studies or anything, just going on what I felt like my
experience was, but it seems like all the benefits of coffee (altertness) with
none of the bad side effects (jittery, crashing, etc.)

~~~
ichverstehe
Yerba mate is really good. Unfortunately it's not commonly accessible. I
wouldn't be surprised though, considering that Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay
and Chile are the only countries where it's common.

~~~
burke
Really? I live in Winnipeg, Canada, and it's pretty much everywhere here.
There are bags of it in health stores, granolahead-oriented restaurants, and
various other surprising places.

------
obiefernandez
I quit caffeine cold-turkey around March, because I was drinking too much
(effects of tolerance?) and feeling jittery throughout the day, as well as
having trouble sleeping at night. Slight headaches subsided after a couple of
days.

Now I don't necessarily feel like I have more energy overall, but it is a lot
easier to get out of bed in the morning and I feel like my energy levels are a
lot flatter and more balanced throughout the day.

Still love the taste of coffee though - decaf soy latte is part of my normal
breakfast routine.

------
cgs
Here's what works for me: I used to have a donut/pastry and a 16oz (or larger)
coffee in the morning. I'd feel good for an hour or so, but soon would feel
jittery and spaced-out. Now, I have an 8-oz cup in the morning with a decent
breakfast - but no more throughout the day. I drink my coffee slow, get a
little caffeine boost, and feel energized all morning. Moderation.

------
byrneseyeview
Even if coffee's net effect is zero -- you're as stimulated with it as you are
without it -- it can still be positive. Think of it as a way to dial up your
adrenaline; instead of being excited at random times, or by external events,
you're excited when you need to work, and calm when you want to relax.

------
ErrantX
I've made this same point a couple of times before on here: generally I think
Caffeine is just a poor stimulant full stop and there are much more productive
and "healthy" ones/methods that leave you feeling a lot better

Good to see some agreement/support on this :D

------
tumland
I rely on coffee to keep me awake in early morning class, but during quizzes
the jittery feeling does impair my ability to focus. However, it's great when
I'm pounding out circuit diagrams and equations for EE!

------
diN0bot
i like the data tracking and chart, but the conclusion is a little
weak...maybe he's getting better at concentrating and coffee has nothing to do
with it. (or rather, i suspect both are influences)

~~~
InclinedPlane
For him at least, the data is proof enough. He thought he might have needed
coffee to stay productive, and he found that he didn't.

~~~
silentbicycle
Specifically, it's a good rebuttal to the nagging feeling that maybe giving in
and drinking coffee would help him focus. The same approach might help with
quitting smoking.

------
old-gregg
He is complaining about mood swings, not coffee. If that's the case, I'd
concentrate of stopping having mood swings as opposed to stopping drinking
coffee.

It's like avoiding women and sex due to mood swings, elevated heart rate and
other "impractical" side effects they may cause.

~~~
randallsquared
If he liked coffee because of the taste or warmth, that would be useful, I
agree. He apparently doesn't care about those, though, from what he says.
Since he actually cares mostly about the caffeine, and since high levels of
caffeine produce mood swings for him (and me), going off coffee would seem to
be the solution he wants.

Personally, I'm willing to put up with the mood swings, since it's not so much
really high and really low as really, really high and kinda low. :) But that's
just me.

------
RevRal
In a time long past, I found that coffee could take the place of a meal.

This probably doesn't _actually_ work. But it still saved me the time of
making a meal.

------
berntb
Coffee is, on the average, good for the health for most people. (But tea is an
ok replacement.)

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_and_health#Benefits>

Do make your coffee with paper filters. [Edit: If you don't want to read the
reference... paper filters removes some chemicals which are bad for
cholesterol levels.]

~~~
ekiru
Pointing out the long-term benefits of something without acknowledging either
the long-term or short-term(which aren't really short-term if you continue to
use it in the long term, but simply take effect sooner) costs doesn't justify
any conclusions about whether the benefits typically outweigh the risks.

~~~
berntb
Check the link... the disadvantages come directly after the benefits. My note
on paper filters came from that.

Very, very few things in life are without _both_ positive and negative
effects.

But coffee is bad mainly for people with certain stomach problems or those who
are too sensitive to caffeine -- blood pressure doesn't seem to increase from
coffee use, claims later research. (This paragraph added since it seems you
are not going to check a link if you life depended upon it! :-) )

Edit: Syntax etc in last paragraph

~~~
ekiru
I did check the link, but I thought that you were only referencing the
benefits. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

~~~
berntb
I would have reacted the same way if someone had claimed health benefits for
e.g. Coca Cola. :-)

It just haven't reached the public conscious yet that coffee weirdly seems to
be such a good lifestyle choice.

~~~
Retric
Strait coffee might be good for you. Starbucks style 800 calorie drinks use
coffee is probably bad for you.

~~~
berntb
"A glass of wine a day is generally healthy. But what if you pour that daily
glass into the sauce of a 5000 calorie dinner?!"

Then I realized your point -- in the US, lots of people think of 800 calorie
drinks containing coffee as "drinking coffee"?

Well... there are certainly even weirder advertisement effects on my home
culture. :-(

------
GrandMasterBirt
The only time I drank coffee in the last 4 yrs has been after my wife had an
apendectamy and I went from work, to hospital, to work no sleep.

Coffee gives me about 15-20 minutes high, then its a crash mid-work so need
more coffee. I never concentrate better and if I'm sleepy I remain sleepy but
hyper.

I wake up perfectly fine without it. It is the routine that wakes you up not
the coffee.

Also it tastes like shit.

------
xtho
Coffee isn't a drug or something. I love the taste of it. But I have done my
research and know of studies that have shown that coffee has adverse effects
on cognitive capabilities. So I drink coffee during meetings in order to stay
awake but never when I have something important to do that requires all my
concentration.

~~~
dubcomesaveme
"Coffee isn't a drug _or something_". lol.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drugs>

First picture caption: "Coffee is the most widely used psychotropic beverage
in the world. In 1999 the average consumption of coffee was 3.5 cups per day
per U.S. citizen."

Caffeine is a CNS stimulant\adenosine receptor antagonist. It increases
wakefulness\helps focused thought but impairs memory. It's a stimulant drug,
not a very good stimulant drug, but the most commonly used one with a large
social presence.

Vastly superior safe legal stimulants imo: Rhodilia Rosea, L-Tyrosine, Cocoa,
Galantamine, Spirulina

Others legal ones I know a lot of people swear by: Piracetam. (and relatives
such as Oxiracetam, Aniracetam) Becoming decently common among college
students.

Adderall is also EVERYWHERE you look in competitive colleges, but long term
amphetamine use is a very bad idea in terms of burnout unless you are super
human like Paul Erdos, and its a controlled substance.

~~~
xtho
Well, if wikipedia says so, it must be true.

