
Oink.cd founder Alan Ellis cleared of fraud charges - noisebleed
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/tees/8461879.stm
======
swombat
Alan Ellis deserved to make money for what he did - he built a successful,
efficient, popular service for people to find music. Instead of suing him, the
record companies should have bought oink.cd of him and added some kind of
monthly subscription model and/or a pay-to-buy-ratio system.

Importantly... does this mean that other people can now run free torrent sites
like Oink with no legal risk? I'm not sure how British law works, in terms of
setting precedents and the like...

~~~
city41
I don't understand this logic. He may have built a successful, efficient and
popular service. But he still did so on the basis of other people's work and
the entire basis of the site was to take away the creator's control over their
own work. Sure his site itself contained nothing illegal and all that. But the
fact remains that the people who create a piece of intellectual property must
retain the rights to do with it as they please. They shouldn't have to be
taken at the whims of the community just because a lot of people happen to
like/want it. If Salinger had decided he never wanted any of his books
published and no one should ever read them, that's his choice, not ours. If we
can't respect the people that create and/or own the intellectual property,
then we are part of a disgusting society.

~~~
swombat
_If Salinger had decided he never wanted any of his books published and no one
should ever read them, that's his choice, not ours._

Absolutely. Until Salinger hits the metaphorical "publish" button, his books
belong to him and no one else. But the minute he decides to share them with
the world he enters into the realm of copyright law, which is (at least
originally) designed to create a good enough bargain to incentivise him to
publish, but which ultimately results in all these works entering the public
domain.

There is no such thing as intellectual _property_ \- merely intellectual
licensing agreements.

------
buss
"Users were required to make a donation to be able to invite friends to join
the site."

I'm pretty sure this wasn't the case. Someone who is not me invited several
people and didn't ever donate.

Glad to hear he's been cleared, though.

~~~
samstokes
If the donation thing is incorrect or exaggerated, how did he make the
$300,000 he supposedly had
(<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tees/8446247.stm>) when the police raided
his home? Seems impressive if it's just ad revenue.

~~~
mrkurt
Donations weren't required. He did accept donations, however.

That $300,000 thing hasn't really been substantiated AFAICT. It's directly
from the mouth of the prosecutor. As someone who helps run a website where we
ask users for money (but don't require it), $300,000 seems insane.

~~~
eli
and the donations did buy additional access to features on the site, yes?

~~~
mrkurt
I can't remember exactly, but I'm pretty sure a good ratio got you all the
same stuff a donation would have. So a donation might have made up for a low
ratio in some ways.

------
mapleoin
Here's the better, less mainstream-media article from torrentfreak:
[http://torrentfreak.com/oink-admin-found-not-guilty-walks-
fr...](http://torrentfreak.com/oink-admin-found-not-guilty-walks-free-100115/)

~~~
Zev
I'd rather read what TorrentFreak sources (but doesn't link to directly)
instead:

[http://ts1.gazettelive.co.uk/local-news/middlesbrough-man-
de...](http://ts1.gazettelive.co.uk/local-news/middlesbrough-man-denies-
website-plot-to-defraud-music-industry.html)

[http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-
news/2010/01/14/i...](http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-
news/2010/01/14/it-expert-denies-profiting-from-oink-website-84229-25600018/)

And presumably the BBC article, since its the earliest report of the decision
on the case that I can find.

------
metabrew
So presumably he could re-open the site, and not face further prosecution,
provided the service didn't change?

~~~
there
wouldn't each new torrent uploaded be a separate case of copyright
infringement that could be tried?

~~~
iuguy
The torrents themselves are not copyright. They contain no copyrighted data.
He didn't actually share the copyrighted data, just provided a facility for
others to share the torrents.

~~~
there
i'm aware of that, but that doesn't mean someone won't still try to drag him
to court for them.

------
rms
:) This may be the most positive news in the history of file sharing.

------
plaes
Yeah, but who compensates two years of downtime?

------
sailormoon
.. so can oink re-open now? : D

I sincerely hope so. It was the best torrent site I have ever had the pleasure
of using.

~~~
dmix
There has been a few that have stepped into its place and provided the same
high-level of quality and selection (for ex. what.cd). But they are difficult
to get in to.

For those are unfamiliar with these sites, they have pretty much every album
imaginable. Including tiny indie bands and vinyl rips from the 50s. They have
very strict sharing requirements (you have to contribute not just leech).

~~~
pyre
> _But they are difficult to get in to._

Not really. I joined one just to see what it was like. All I had to do was
show up in an IRC channel and go through some 'testing process.' Apparently if
I was referred by someone I could have forgone that process. My 'membership'
recently lapsed because I never used it, but it wasn't hard to get in.

They did have some onerous rules though. Like getting kicked out if someone
you referred breaks a rule. I think you even got kicked out if someone
referred by a person that you referred got kicked out.

> _They have very strict sharing requirements (you have to contribute not just
> leech)._

The problem being that there are _many_ torrents with _only seeders_ connected
to them. So it would be hard to keep your 'quota' without a concerted effort.
It's not just 'leave your torrent client open when the downloading finishes.'

~~~
pstinnett
Seems like the way to keep sharing ratios up on sites like these is to pay for
seedbox servers to keep a fast upload line going.

~~~
boucher
Actually, the best strategy on Oink was to troll the latest uploads, download
them, and then make sure to seed for a week or two. The trick was guessing
which ones were likely to be popular, but there were some obvious freebies and
as long as you didn't download really big torrents you never took too much of
a hit.

