
Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Syrian Border - kafkaesq
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/25/world/europe/turkey-syria-russia-military-plane.html
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atmosx
Live feed (updates) from the Guardian:
[http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/24/russian-
je...](http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/24/russian-jet-downed-
by-turkish-planes-near-syrian-border-live-updates)

One of the two Russian pilots is dead. US and France urge Russia and Turkey to
prevent escalation.

ps. On a side note, does Germany actually count as a military force? Because
when we're talking about the EU's economic policy, we're basically talking
about Germany. But when war is at the gates we always see France as the major
European player.

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powera
France has nukes and a UN Security Council seat, Germany has post-WWII
military restrictions.

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highCs
Source for Germany military restrictions:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Final_Settlement...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Final_Settlement_with_Respect_to_Germany)

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return0
The US president's rush to defend Turkey is beyond ridiculous, even taking
into account that Turkey is part of NATO. Turkish airplanes breach the Greek
airspace over the Aegean sea multiple times every day (Turkey considers parts
of the aegean disputed despite international treaties). Never has an incident
happened, despite dogfights having been happening for decades. By this logic
there would not be any turkish pilots alive by now.

Turkey's military often likes to interfere in turkish politics, and this was
probably caused by some hothead militant. I doubt turkey has at this stage
anything to gain from confrontation with Russia.

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comrh
Russia also has a history of "testing" airspace of other countries though.

~~~
mladenkovacevic
As does every other country, US and Turkey included.

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suprgeek
Putin may have come off as angry in his reactions after the shoot down but
this plays very much into his hands. The Russian economy is in trouble and
avg. russians are feeling the pinch. so nothing like some military engagements
and patriotism to distract people.

Now there will be predictable sabre ratting and retaliation from Russia - they
do not want this to calm down...not really.

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AnimalMuppet
Now we have conflicting claims about whether the plane crossed the border,
with both sides releasing radar tracks.

It's even possible that both sides could be making their claims in good faith
- if someone's equipment isn't perfectly accurate. (Hmm. Where have I heard
this before? Oh, yes, _Tomorrow Never Dies_.)

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mladenkovacevic
Russian Ministry of Defense statement for a Russian view of the situation:
[https://youtu.be/KGlJFoIBKQw](https://youtu.be/KGlJFoIBKQw)

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m00dy
Yes, we did.

~~~
rblatz
So in recent months you've been buying oil from ISIS, sending supplies to
ISIS, and shot down Russian planes that are fighting ISIS. Why are you still
in NATO?

~~~
kafkaesq
_So in recent months you 've been buying oil from ISIS,_

Substantiation, please?

~~~
yarou
Turkey actually has a lot to gain from supporting ISIS.

For one thing, the Turks are traditionally enemies of the Kurds, who want to
establish their own state within Turkey's borders.

So it's not surprising (the enemy of my enemy is my friend) that Turkey would
support ISIS, if not actively, at least passively.

~~~
kafkaesq
You're giving an explanation as to why it _could be_ happening.

But you're not providing any factual information to support the allegation
that it actually _is_ happening.

