

Paypal Founder Peter Thiel Invests to Create Floating Micro-Countries - bakbak
http://inhabitat.com/paypal-founder-invests-1-25-million-to-create-floating-micro-countries/

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christkv
I am Andrew Ryan, and I'm here to ask you a question. Is a man not entitled to
the sweat of his brow? 'No!' says the man in Washington, 'It belongs to the
poor.' 'No!' says the man in the Vatican, 'It belongs to God.' 'No!' says the
man in Moscow, 'It belongs to everyone.' I rejected those answers; instead, I
chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose... Rapture, a city
where the artist would not fear the censor, where the scientist would not be
bound by petty morality, Where the great would not be constrained by the
small! And with the sweat of your brow, Rapture can become your city as well.

~~~
athom
From BioShock, for the one or two other idiots who (like myself) never bought
or played the game.

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ddw
Funny how these guys can only afford these things from their profits in "nanny
states."

Basically this guy is keeping it close to San Francisco so that he can earn
him money here and suck it over to his amusement park.

If he really believed in "libertarianism" he would just do it without the
money and see how he can prosper then. But alas, the super rich are not like
everyone else.

~~~
ajays
I don't know why you're being downvoted. I came here to say the same thing.
These people will do all this song-and-dance of making a "libertarian utopia",
but still keep their money in dollars; their house on Sea Cliff; their kids in
US universities.

You really think you can do better, Mr. Rich Guy? Then put your money where
your mouth is, and move your family there. Live there. Don't go to any of the
so-called "socialist hells"; try to survive on your little parcel of paradise
and see how long it lasts.

~~~
ddw
Of course I was downvoted, everyones' startup is going to be bought by Google
and we'll all be rich! Woo hoo!

(and yes I realize I'll get it for this too)

I'm really fine with people living in the woods like the Unabomber and giving
it a shot. Or even New Hampshire becoming a libertarian state, why not, go for
it and see what happens.

But don't put a lot of money behind something and call it an "experiment" that
we can actually apply in the real world.

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NHQ
You'd still have to bank in other currencies, and you'd have to put your money
in the markets of major economies, on which you would have to pay taxes. And
you're not getting rid of social welfare like minimum wage, you're getting rid
of the society. Is that what libertarians really are, at heart, merely anti-
social?

For you the Randists and anti-Randists, and techo-utopians, feast your ideals
on the great Adam Curtis' latest social hackumentary:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz2j3BhL47c>

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gexla
Floating countries for rich people. Products: Gambling licenses. Dual
citizenships. Offshore banking (tax havens.) What am I missing?

Edit: Of course, nobody would actually be living in these places other than
system admins. All the available space would be stuffed with servers to run
the above services.

~~~
glenra
Medical tourism is a biggie. Offer an assortment of the best treatments that
have been approved by _any_ government on earth. Thus, rich US tourists can
take a 1-hour boat ride to get treatments they'd otherwise have to travel to
Germany for and vice-versa. (Especially useful if the condition you're
treating makes air travel dangerous!) More flexible immigration, licensing,
and liability laws means you can use doctors and equipment from, say, India
and cut the price of the procedure in half.

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leandrod
Jules Verne’s _The Floating Island_ foresaw ðis. Its conclusion? Inhabitants
could not agree on much, so the island got torn apart.

~~~
endtime
This is called generalization from fictional evidence.
[http://lesswrong.com/lw/k9/the_logical_fallacy_of_generaliza...](http://lesswrong.com/lw/k9/the_logical_fallacy_of_generalization_from/)

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eegilbert
Wouldn't "countries" like this be super vulnerable to attack? A few well-
placed charges and it's like the place never existed.

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dstein
One guy with a machine gun could conquer this country in 10 minutes. And if
it's truly sovereign then it would be completely legal.

~~~
tomjen3
Actually not. Agressive war is no longer legal (you can end up in Hague).

~~~
christkv
That's horrible the us and eu countries must be going before the Hague then
for the Libian bombings. Oh wait that's right they write the rules so it does
not apply to them just to governments with less military might.

What is "non" Agressive war is always defined by who holds the biggest gun.

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andrewflnr
I think you'll need several of them linked together before you get any useful
testbed for government. Most systems of government can work at small scale.
They don't break until you get lots of people. The whole thing should also
wind up being more stable socially.

I really like the idea of ocean-going governmental experiments. Let's have
socialist experiments and parecon experiments while we're at it. They really
need to be sovereign, or they're just big cruise ships. They need to have
complete ownership of the platforms, which almost means they need to be
donated.

Obviously sinking is a big risk. Make sure there are well-drilled emergency
procedures, and that the links between platforms are such that one sinking
will not bring down any others. And keep lifeboats and dual citizenship, so if
it goes south you'll have somewhere to go when they pick you out of the ocean.

I suspect that even if the first few iterations of this idea suck and/or are
used for crass commercial purposes, it will likely get ironed out eventually.
I think seagoing countries could be an important part of the future someday.

~~~
endtime
>I think you'll need several of them linked together before you get any useful
testbed for government. Most systems of government can work at small scale.
They don't break until you get lots of people. The whole thing should also
wind up being more stable socially.

Agreed.

>They really need to be sovereign, or they're just big cruise ships. They need
to have complete ownership of the platforms, which almost means they need to
be donated.

No it doesn't. They can be sold, either as real estate or to groups of people
who want to administrate them.

>Obviously sinking is a big risk. Make sure there are well-drilled emergency
procedures, and that the links between platforms are such that one sinking
will not bring down any others. And keep lifeboats and dual citizenship, so if
it goes south you'll have somewhere to go when they pick you out of the ocean.

Obviously the people moving there should educate themselves on whether the
platforms are resilient to turbulent weather. They can bring their own safety
equipment (lifeboats, etc.) or perhaps the owner/seller of the platform will
include it as part of the rental/sale arrangement. These aren't hard problems
to solve without some kind of centralized paternalist entity. Maintaining dual
citizenship seems like it could be a good idea - potentially high benefit (if
it doesn't work out or you don't like it) for low cost (unless your country
requires you to pay income tax on money not earned there).

~~~
andrewflnr
I guess the new government will need som starting funding anyway, and buying
platforms may as well be part of the startup expenses. And yes, citizen self-
education will be very important.

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chrismealy
If a rich dude is doing it, you'll read about it on HN.

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waffle_ss
In other words, they're trying to implement something akin to Galt's Gulch (or
an archipelago of them) from Atlas Shrugged.

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outside1234
is it just me or does that look like a ring of hell? who wants to be stuck on
an island without sand, one restaurant, and no way to exercise outside?

~~~
bobo888
Swimming is a very good exercise :)

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thadeus_venture
I think one point has been ignored so far - this will be a really boring place
to live compared to an average city. Can you imagine being stuck on a boat or
a tiny island for years? That sounds like punishment to me.

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wisty
It looks like their financial model revolves around skirting regulations. The
example they give is "medical tourism". But it's basically going to be
floating casinos and brothels, right?

~~~
justincormack
There was a floating abortion clinic off Ireland at one point.
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1382412.stm>

And of course there used to be pirate radio offshore from the uk beaming pop
music, bypassing government broadcast regulations.

So there have been other uses...

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cleaver
Better invest in lots of defences... If you're an independent micro-country,
nobody's going to rush to defend you from pirates.

~~~
watchandwait
The risk-reward isn't there for pirates. Seasteads will likely be well-armed,
populated, far from Somalia and other pirate operating areas, and lack the
large material payload of a cargo ship or oil-tanker.

~~~
ajays
And when the next hurricane strikes, guess who they're gonna call? The US
Coast Guard! "Help, Nanny State! Please help us!!!"

~~~
shabble
or they could...

have some kind of contract with tugs, lifeboats, helicopter rescue, etc. You
could set up some sort of insurance system for citizens/inhabitants to cover
those contract retainers.

Hell, you might even end up contracting it out to the Coast Guard if they meet
your needs and are close enough to count.

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georgieporgie
This is a great test of Libertarian ideology. Personally, I suspect they'll
quickly find out that those 'excessive' US taxes are paying for layer upon
layer of security and infrastructure that is critical to the expansion of
their wealth. Perhaps, though, their superior free-market will develop
compact, cost-effective means of defense.

Then again, maybe they'll just end up in a nice tax shelter and use their
political/financial connections to assure protection from the United States.

