
How the U.S. military thinks about AI [audio] - killjoywashere
https://changelog.com/practicalai/72
======
lwneal
The substantive part of this conversation comes about 35 minutes in, when
Allen describes the DoD's five AI ethics principles: that any deployed AI
systems must be "Responsible, Equitable, Traceable, Reliable, and Governable."
[1].

I think "Responsible" raises some hard questions. Today, any weapons use by a
robot might require a responsible human operator to first (remotely) pull the
trigger. But what if an adversary allows their robots to fire without waiting
for human permission? The first side to do so would gain a critical advantage,
and we cannot have an autonomy gap.

Some have raised conerns that in the extreme case, this could lead to a world
of machines anonymously killing without attribution. If you haven't, see
Stuart Russell's compelling short film "Slaughterbots" [2].

[1]
[https://media.defense.gov/2019/Oct/31/2002204459/-1/-1/0/DIB...](https://media.defense.gov/2019/Oct/31/2002204459/-1/-1/0/DIB_AI_PRINCIPLES_SUPPORTING_DOCUMENT.PDF)

[2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CO6M2HsoIA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CO6M2HsoIA)

~~~
dx87
Autonomous killing could be something that needs to be added to international
laws of war. The USA already follows restrictions that could give it an
advantage in war, but it doesn't because of international agreements. For
example, our military has to wear uniforms during war, and we have to follow
proportional force that restricts what weapons can be used in response to an
attack. Countries largely follow the rules because nobody wants a free-for-all
war with no rules.

~~~
catalogia
How would autonomous killing be precisely defined? Whenever a machine is
designed to kill without an affirmative command from a human operator? Would
that include landminds? Maybe it should...

~~~
joshvm
There are plenty of fire-and-forget weapons that will attack a _designated_
target autonomously. Some may even be totally automated, like CIWS, if you put
them in some paranoid mode.

A landmine is indiscriminate, by that logic anything with a triggerable fuze
is autonomous (even a snare trap would be). The difference would be if the
landmine chose to explode based on some other factor.

Autonomy and intelligence are not the same thing.

~~~
satanspastaroll
Well landmines can discriminate by atleast weight and magnetism. I think they
can also count the tracks and blow up later if they want to

~~~
cf141q5325
The action is however caused by a human who mined the area, its just delayed,
similar to how a grenade has a delay after the human activation, before it
explodes. You can make the same distinction with an automatic gun or turret.
You position it in an area in which you decide to kill anyone in it.

Autonomy gets truly dangerous because you dont need to create death zones and
no mans land. They are not a less violent version of just bombing the area.
They can run considerations and decide by themselves who to kill and with
this, their usage outside of active front lines will be considered. And with
that, the people deploying them give up the decision and delegate it to an
algorithm or worse yet, a trained black box. Reality will be to have
completely unaccountable killers bots flying over countries who cant defend
themselves against foreign aggression.

This stuff has absolutely horrible potential and i find it prudent to shame
and cut out anyone with a sufficient lack of a spine to work in this area. As
unpopular as it is to consider the impact of the technology you are
developing, it is taught for a reason in a CS degree. This work has the
potential to screw over humanity for a while to come.

------
ackshually
The sound design on this podcast is awful. Interesting podcast, but the music
is way too loud and doesn't fade in or out at all. the mic of the host seems
to occasionally tear as well.

------
killjoywashere
I try to tell you guys about multi-million dollar opportunities to save lives
available for the next 10 days and I can't keep it on the front page, even
with dang's help (1). By comparison, I can't keep this softball podcast off
the front page. Please, tell me you're more interested in saving lives than
kibitzing.

(1)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22050285](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22050285)

