
Sheep logic (2017) - zhte415
http://www.epsilontheory.com/sheep-logic/
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GlenTheMachine
I take issue with some of the characterizations here about sheep behavior.

As someone who also keeps sheep, I have observed:

Sheep are kind to each other. Whenever we're working on a sheep, our head ewe
always comes into the work area to inspect. She stands there and watches,
baa's (I assume to let the sheep being worked on know that she's there -
although maybe this is anthropomorphizing). She has been known to go find a
sheep who can't figure out how to get through the gate and escort them
through.

When you take the hay or grain out to the barn, what happens is that one sheep
hears you, baa's, and everyone comes running. They jostle each other to get to
the grain, but that doesn't last that long. Mostly, they stand side-by-side
and eat; everybody gets some, as long as there's enough room.

No, I think what this guy actually wants to talk about is _goat_ dynamics. You
bring grain to the goats, the one that hears you doesn't make a sound. She
just saunters into the barnyard, all suave, and eats her fill. If two or more
goats hear you, then they all have to fight each other to see who gets to eat
first. Every single day. For a goat, the sight of other goats eating grain is
basically intolerable.

Both sheep and goats may well have evolved flock dynamics for all the reasons
the author illustrates, e.g. they act in terms of their own personal self-
interest, and not the collective. But there are several local minima in that
evolutionary space, and they aren't all equal.

~~~
avn2109
Your claims about goats strike me as true, but I have an addition.

In my experience with goats, their salient feature is a maniacal and
skillfully-executed desire to escape/vanish/get loose, typically at the most
inopportune possible time.

This kinda breaks the metaphor, which is likely why the author used sheep
instead.

~~~
GlenTheMachine
This is true, but goats do observe and _learn from_ each other, and this is
especially true in terms of causing trouble. If one goat figures out how to
get out, everybody else follows. If one sheep gets out, she is very upset
(generally) and does her best to get back in!

Anthropomorphizing again, it looks like goats are more intelligent than sheep.
But I'm not sure that's actually true; I think it's just that the same local
minimum in the flock dynamics space that cause goats to fight each other for
grain also causes them to be more inventive in their random walk through life.

When you house sheep and goats together, the sheep learn to do some of the
same things the goats do. If you want to introduce your sheep to a new food,
give it to the goats first. They'll eat it, the sheep will see them eating it,
and then the sheep will eat it. I've seen goats stand on their back legs to
get to the lower branches of trees. The sheep had never thought to do that on
their own. But once they see the goats doing it, they try it too. That tells
me the sheep aren't inherently less intelligent; there's just less variation
in their nominal behavior.

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stcredzero
_We think we are wolves, living by the logic of the pack._

 _In truth we are sheep, living by the logic of the flock._

Human beings have both modes. We are close relatives to chimpanzees, who will
go together in a group with the specific goal of exterminating the next group.
Human societies have a communal mode and a feudal mode. One is more
egalitarian and communal. (But also hierarchical.) The other is more
hierarchical. (But also communal.)

~~~
posterboy
That is a generalization of one instance (chimpanse war) and absolutely not
usual, perhaps it is not unusual either, but who knows. Just curious what your
comment is based on.

~~~
stcredzero
_That is a generalization of one instance (chimpanse war) and absolutely not
usual, perhaps it is not unusual either, but who knows._

They very regularly patrol the borders of their territory. If they find an
interloper, it's not so unusual for them to kill it.

 _Just curious what your comment is based on._

The dual nature of Japanese society (feudal/communal) is commented on in the
West. However, there's nothing there which isn't also present in western
societies. It's just easier for westerners to see it in a different culture.

