
American’s 737 MAX: Not Terrible, But Sad (2018) - PaulHoule
https://onemileatatime.com/american-airlines-737-max/
======
spectramax
Whenever I hear a complain about airline experience, I am reminded by the fact
that air travel has become cheaper every year. What used to cost $1800 for a
flight from USA to New Delhi just 10-15 years ago is now less than $800.

Consumers have shown that price is _the_ most important factor for choosing a
flight. Unlike other industries, say buying a piece of furniture, consumers
evaluate pros and cons of short term cost savings with long-term reliability
and durability. In transportation, consumers are willing to sacrifice comfort
for cost to the extent that Airlines are willing to go to extreme measures to
cut costs. Consumers are asking for this whilst complaining about lack of
comfort - what a insane dichotomy of entitlement and personal choice.

Furthermore, I don't understand the fascination for traveling first/business
class as if it is some kind of an absolute luxury. People can't stop talking
about "Dude, you gotta fly Singapore Air business class, it is the best thing
ever". You know what? My apartment has 900 sq foot of space, a full sized bed,
music system, hot shower, balcony and a fully equipped kitchen. I would rather
sit in my lounge chair enjoying some Bob Dylan than to sit in that Singapore
Air business class seat trapped in a tube full of entitled humans. First or
business class is a _relative_ luxury, relative to the economy class. It is
not some sort of an absolute experience of ground breaking luxury that leaves
me in awe. If I wanted that, I would get a night at the Four Seasons for much
less or go eat a fine meal or better yet, go do something that is _truly_ awe-
inspiring like stargazing. I am not saying that Business class sucks, I am
saying that it has its place - i.e., precisely between take off and landing.

~~~
GuiA
Business class is absolutely worth paying for. It’s certainly not for the
luxurious appeal of it, but if you’re going to splurge on one thing, air
travel is not a bad one to pick.

I travel between the US, Europe, and Asia a couple times a year to visit close
ones. I can pay $800 for a lengthy multi leg journey in a very cramped seat (I
am quite tall), which will result in me being utterly miserable for 24-48
hours at the very least.

Or I can pay a few times that (usually 3-5x), and take a single leg trip on a
plane that will take less than 12 hours, all in utter comfort. I can lie down
with a pillow and a blanket!

Now, as a student I had no choice but to save up for months to afford the
cheapest, most inconvenient tickets. But now I am at a stage of my life where
I can afford business class a couple times a year, and it is a no brainer. I
can’t think of any other service where paying more changes the quality of the
service this drastically. A $30 meal can feed you just as well as a $150 one.
A $20k car will get you to work as safely and efficiently as a $100k one. But
a $800 SF-Tokyo will make you hate everything for a day or two, while a $4000
SF-Tokyo will be something you actually look forward to. You typically get to
skip through security, get treated better by the staff, get to board faster,
you don’t have to worry about where to put your bag, etc. So many quality of
life improvements.

(Standard disclaimer that I realize how privileged I am to be in the position
that I am in - but I don’t think it’s too out of the norm on HN)

~~~
dbmikus
I prefer paying extra to book a non-stop flight and then I just don't sleep
the night beforehand and enter the plane, squeeze into my garbage economy seat
and enter a semi-asleep fugue state for the duration of the flight. After 7
hours I basically lose track of time. 3x the price of a cross-pacific airline
ticket to upgrade is a good amount of money that I'd rather just pocket.

I'm 6'4", so I recognize how cramped economy is, and I have also been bumped
up to business class once cause of a massive flight delay from Alaska back to
the east coast, so I know what I'm missing.

I won't knock anyone for flying in better comfort, but I think the suffering
isn't too bad. Jet lag is going to get you anyways.

~~~
tzs
We need a travel service where the night before you need to be at your
destination, you get packed, then take some drug that will cause a deep sleep
and go to bed.

The service comes to your house, transfers you (still asleep) to a vehicle and
takes you and your luggage to the airport. There you are loaded onto a plane
(still asleep!) and flown to your destination.

At the destination, they take you to your hotel, and put you (still asleep!)
into bed, and optionally even unpack your luggage and set your alarm for you.
Then they administer something to counteract the sleeping drug and leave.

From your point of view, you just go to sleep and the next morning you wake up
in your hotel, ready to start the day at your destination.

~~~
prmph
> ...you just go to sleep and the next morning you wake up in your hotel...

Or you don't because the plane crashed; still better to die in your sleep
anyway.

But what happens if there is an emergency in the air that requires you to put
on the oxygen mask, climb out to safety, or something like that?

------
DiabloD3
"In addition to removing TVs, they added 12 more seats to these planes."

Am I the only person on earth who thinks those god awful wastes of space
_should_ be removed? I've never interacted with one, they don't play anything,
and my phone is about as big as those screens anyways and already contains all
the content I wish to view?

~~~
andrewflnr
I'm with you. Airplane TVs are a scourge on my sanity. It's one thing when a
neighbor is watching a movie I can't stop myself from glancing at. It's worse
when they're just letting the promo loop roll endlessly. Every flashy cut
pulls my eyes away from what I'm trying to look at, no matter how many times
I've seen it, and brings me one step closer to snapping. It doesn't help that
the only way to turn it off is to turn the screen brightness down to zero, so
AFAICT most people just live with it helplessly. Then it gets turned back on
to play the safety demonstration, _and then the promo loop plays again_ ,
rising from the grave like an evil undead king, forcing me to turn it off
again with clumsy buttons designed to withstand baby barf.

I may have some issues to deal with.

~~~
itsNotYou
You don't have any issues to deal with. The idea that advertising even works
(in the sense that it changes opinions or fosters a desire to buy, where,
previously there was none) is really the root cause of the problem here.

Somehow, somewhere, a person once suggested that repetition was a useful
strategy for getting people to buy things, and in a crucial moment, when a
millenia of person year misery could have been halted, killed in the womb,
whoever heard the suggestion simply shrugged, and now, even though I never
drink Gatorade, I still remember that it's actually thirst-ade for that deep
down body thirst.

------
batiudrami
Whenever I can I schedule my flights to avoid 737s. I know it's as much the
airline's fault as Boeing's but I find them cramped, rattley and generally
uncomfortable.

However I got the impression that American was the most premium of the US
airlines when I was last flew with them so I'm surprised at how low cost
carrier this fitout looks.

~~~
xvf22
Same goes for me and 787s. A sad day was when they started to go 10 abreast on
the 777s. Airbus planes (350, 380, and 220) seem to have more seat width than
their Boeing counterparts.

------
benatkin
FYI: this is the same model that got pulled due to safety concerns. The first
comment is from "October 11, 2018 at 12:08 pm" which indicates this review was
from well before the current crisis.

I recently flew to Miami on American and on my first two flights there was no
TV, but fortunately on my flight from Dallas to Miami there was a TV which I
kept tuned to the map the whole time, to see New Orleans, the Gulf of Mexico,
and Southwest Florida come into view.

Edit: GPS is now available in Airplane mode. I hadn't realized that.
[https://www.macobserver.com/analysis/ios-airplane-mode-
gps-n...](https://www.macobserver.com/analysis/ios-airplane-mode-gps-nfc/)

------
caymanjim
The problems listed in this article have a lot more to do with American
Airlines than with the 737 MAX. The seats and bathrooms are probably standard
features that will be identical on all airlines, but legroom is entirely up to
the airline ordering the plane. American chose to configure their planes that
way. Same for the TVs.

As a 6'1" somewhat overweight guy, legroom is single most annoying anti-
feature on most flights. I used to regularly score exit rows, because they
wouldn't sell them in advance, or even let you select them, but now they're
considered premium seats that cost up to 50% extra.

American is an awful airline. Their main east coast hub is MIA, which is a
gigantic airport with a poor layout and insufficient inter- and intra-terminal
transportation options. They always have long layovers. I was stranded
overnight in Houston once due to them cancelling a flight, and the only
compensation was a $12 meal voucher, which barely covered a soda and stale
donut at the shitty motel they stuck us in. They refused to honor my miles
from another airline that is part of their mileage sharing program (because
they cancelled the arrangement soon after I flew). Their customer service is
terrible. Poor meals, if any. Outrageous baggage fees.

Anyway, my point is that the 737 MAX shouldn't be blamed for how American
chose to arrange the seats. American chooses to suck at every opportunity.

------
aj7
100% accurate. Passengers hate the AA 737 MAXs. Flight attendants hate them
too.

------
systemBuilder
There were no multi-passenger america-based airline fatalities in 2018 ( one
woman was killed when a jet rotor exploded sending the plate through the
window and through her ). Some things about air travel in America are getting
better

------
ericd
Is it just me getting older, or are these new thinner economy seats much
harder/stiffer than the old ones?

------
ncmncm
Violent death is another unattractive feature.

------
mirimir
This need a (2018) tag.

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tom_
I don't fly much. I spend my carbon footprint on eating meat for every meal,
and driving a not very efficient car. I last went on a plane in July 2010.

It stuck in my mind, because it was hell. So this segment really leaped out at
me:

> I sat in the seat for a moment ... My takeaway is that the comfort is
> roughly comparable.

My takeaway is that the author is full of shit.

Sit in that fucker for 4 hours. Make sure you're over the age of 30 when you
do it.

~~~
brandon272
When I sit in an economy airline seat I fairly quickly (within 30 minutes)
begin to get severe aching in my glutes/upper hamstring area that persists for
the duration of the flight. I know everyone complains about commercial airline
seats, but what is it about airplane seats that does this?

~~~
tom_
Every fitment will have been space- and weight-optimized, for obvious reasons,
so you're already squeezed in that bit tighter than you might be in most other
forms of public transport. Air pressure is also lower than normal, and you're
going to be sat there for longer than usual... it all adds up, I figure.

------
mindslight
If you think this is bleak, just wait until they're no longer grounded. I hear
it will be a $20 upsell if you want to guarantee flying on a plane with the
fixed software.

~~~
damian2000
No way that will happen, the ones without the fix will remain grounded as a
safety issue.

