
Why UberCab is in trouble. This is the webpage of the S.F. taxi cartel - uvdiv
http://www.medallionholders.com/medallions.html
======
jessriedel
So I can understand the argument for taxi regulation and prohibiting
unlicensed taxis: when I hail a taxi for a 5 minutes drive, I don't want to
expend resources looking at competitors, checking to make sure the meter is
legit, checking proof of insurance, etc. Since most people want the same thing
out of a taxi (as opposed to, say, buying a car), it makes sense for a
centralized government agency to do some regulating.

But what is the rationale for limiting the number of medallions? Why not just
allow anyone who wants to become licensed to do so, while charging a fee which
covers the cost of the licencing process?

The OP's article lists the obvious dangers of completely deregulating, but it
doesn't explain the cap on medallions.

(Please, no comments about "because the taxi cartels control the government!".
I understand the incentives for existing taxis to erect barriers to the
market. I'm more interesting in the rationale of those who argue that a
limited number of medallions is in the public interest.)

~~~
uvdiv
Well, on the progressive side, when they want rent they argue that market
prices are "unfairly low" (or high). Creating artificial scarcity is one way
to inflate prices to "fair" levels, e.g. "living wages":

> _Ward 1 Councilman Jim Graham introduced legislation Tuesday to limit the
> number of taxicabs in D.C. through either a medallion system, like ones used
> in New York City and Chicago, or a certification system. [...] A glut of
> drivers could jeopardize the chances of any cabbies making an adequate
> living, Graham has said._

[http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/Cap-on-D_C_-cabs-
sug...](http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/Cap-on-D_C_-cabs-
suggested-7909132-49611772.html)

...Though in this _particular_ case the backstory turned out to be "the taxi
cartels control the government".

[http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/24/dc-
council-m...](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/24/dc-council-
member-jim-graham-chief-staff-arrested/)

[http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/crime/Ethiopian-
comm...](http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/crime/Ethiopian-community-
leader-pleads-guilty-to-taxi-bribery-scheme-90851849.html)

~~~
jessriedel
Thanks! This is the kind of example argument I was looking for.

(And of course it makes terrible economic sense. If the city wanted to
transfer wealth to the taxi drivers from other citizens, it would be more
efficient to just have a transparent tax and payment system, rather than a
hidden cost through a monopoly. But I figure I don't have to convince _you_ of
that...)

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sahillavingia
I built a Taxi-related app for iPhone, specifically for Singapore [1]. I got
several calls and emails from cab companies, first trying to brand my app with
their company. Then, trying to buy the app off me for little-to-nothing. Then,
threatening to "shut [me] down" claiming that this stuff wasn't allowed.

Months later, they've all tried to copy the crap out of my app. It's OK if
they do it, but not anyone else.

[1] - <http://taxilah.com/>

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jluxenberg
_A "cab" operating in San Francisco without a medallion is illegal...is [not]
subject to..meter inspections_

Perfect example of regulations not keeping up with technology. If I request a
"cab" via an iPhone app, I know exactly how far I'm going and how much its
going to cost me before I even get in the cab.

~~~
nostromo
Not only that, but there could be a simple review system for drivers. It could
actually improve quality by giving riders recourse. ("A+++ WOULD RIDE AGAIN")

~~~
jessriedel
The last thing I want to do when hailing a cab for a 4 minutes drive is check
ebay-style reviews. I just want a cab to appear in front of me when I step out
of a building.

~~~
nostromo
I don't think you're being very imaginative. I'm thinking more along the lines
of filters... like a setting that will only call cabs above a certain quality
threshold.

~~~
jessriedel
But see that's the thing: already, you've agrees that it probably wouldn't be
worth the effort to rate cabs on anything besides a single dimension
(rating/quality/stars/whatever). At that point, why not simply have the city
compile reviews and then require each taxi to paint it's number of stars on
the side?

And for _me_ , it's not even worth that. I just want a taxi that's insured.

I'm not against rating systems _on top_ of what we have now. If it's worth it
for you to wait a minute for a better cab, more power to you. (Hell, I might
want to take some time to find a nice car if I were on a date or something.)
But please don't take away the easy, efficient system we have now in most
cities.

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sp4rki
This has nothing to do with UberCab because they are not dispatching cabs to
their customers. UberCab is pre-arranging a _limo/professional
chauffeur/personal driver service_ with valid license and insurance policies
required for private transport services to pickup a customer at a select
location.

~~~
tzs
> UberCab is pre-arranging a limo/professional chauffeur/personal driver
> service with valid license and insurance policies required for private
> transport services to pickup a customer at a select location.

The limo/chauffeur/driver has a valid license to operate a limo service, not a
cab service. They are operating as a cab service when dispatched by UberCab,
and so if they do not have a cab license, it would seem that they are
operating outside the law.

~~~
sp4rki
Why would they be operating a cab service? There are two things that separate
cab service and black car service. 1) black car service drivers are not
allowed to pick up passengers by street hail or any other method that is not
dispatch by base station, and is booked on a private hire basis. 2) black car
service is basically a private transportation in which a limo license has been
granted, is suited by it's luxurious demeanor as a vehicle appropriate for
ceremonies and uses of luxury or prestige.

The cars that UberCab dispatches are in appearance and in license compliant
with black car services and are hired on-demand on a prearrangement basis
through a phone application. In addition, a customer must register for the
service and provide a credit card to use the service.

This are not random people calling a cab station, this are specific customers
arranging for private transportation they could do by phone, but do so using
an application instead.

~~~
msbarnett
> Why would they be operating a cab service?

Because, per San Francisco city bylaws, cab services, and only cab services,
can pick up people immediately. Limo Services must arrange pick-ups at least
one hour in advance.

~~~
othermaciej
Is there a citation for the law requiring arrangements at least an hour in
advance? The original article didn't claim such a law exists in San Francisco,
just that it was common in many states. So I wonder where you got the specific
information about SF laws.

------
stcredzero
Hailing cabs street-side is really only implementing what Ubercab is doing,
but with stochastic pre-distribution of roaming service providers. It's an
early industrial-revolution way of doing things because back then we didn't
have electronic networks. Really, it should be irrelevant in modern countries.

------
lolname
The page claims that the sedan services are cheaper... let's verify that claim
on a few rides:

2 mile luxor cab: $7.15 5 mile luxor cab: $13.90 10 mile luxor cab: $25.15 1
minute idling luxor cab: $0.45

2 mile yellow cab: $7.15 5 mile yellow cab: $13.90 10 mile yellow cab: $25.15
1 minute idling yellow cab: $0.45

2 mile ubercab: $17.80 5 mile ubercab: $32.50 10 mile ubercab: $57.00 1 minute
idling ubercab: $1.25

I fail to see the expense the article implies.

~~~
anigbrowl
What page are you talking about?

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fleitz
The page strikes me as very racist, exactly what is a 'gypsy cab'?

~~~
ShabbyDoo
Would you prefer "Roma Cabs"? In all seriousness, I do agree although I don't
think the average American even realizes that Gypsies/Roma are an actual,
modern-day ethnic group.

~~~
js2
The word "gypped" is used indiscriminately by the average American as well.

~~~
swaits
Languages evolve. They also include lots of ugly history. Fact is, it's part
of the language today, and nobody is using the word "indiscriminately" or as
an otherwise ethnic slur. In other words, we don't have to feel bad for using
it.

~~~
stcredzero
Is there any reason we need to use it? How about we leave the feeling bad out
of it, but we just don't use it? Would you teasingly call your friend a
"retard" in front of someone with Down syndrome? That doesn't strike me as
polite. Using an ethnic referent as a synonym for some type of unsavory act
just doesn't seem polite either.

