

Quality of life in the USA(California and Colorado esp)? - mlxer

I have always wanted to move to the USA. Attitude is better(especially towards entrepreneurialship), taxes are lower but perhaps most importantly, weather is better(I live in Sweden).<p>However is California all it seems to be?
I think constant sunshine, wealthy, surfing, skiing, climbing. I could live an active outdoor life there.<p>But then there is perhaps high house prices and apartments, overpopulation, pollution(?), crime etc.<p>Is Colorado(Denver, Boulder, Colorado springs) better?<p>How is the USA overall? Is Europe better? I don't like the stupid socialist attitude of pretty much all european governments, on the other hand I don't dig US foreign politics much either(I'm fairly libertarian).
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maxawaytoolong
Personally, I prefer California to Colorado.

The outdoors stuff really is quite a draw in California. I have traveled
extensively and I don't believe anywhere else in the world compares to the
landscape diversity of California. In the Bay Area alone, you have beautiful
(but cold) beaches, a weird, eccentrically beautiful urban area, a giant bay,
3 hours to world-class mountains and skiing, 1-2 hours to other beaches, a
mystical hilly farm-beach-fog-redwood wonderland (Marin County) that I have
not seen anywhere else, etc. It's also very diverse and you can meet any sort
of person from any background, and eat any sort of food. I would say for those
factors, it definitely is "all it seems to be."

I have numerous friends from Canada, the Netherlands, Japan, France, the UK,
Germany, Norway, Croatia, Denmark and Mexico who now live in Silicon Valley or
SF and vow to never live anywhere else again.

On the downside, California has horrible traffic, high housing costs, high
school education is terrible, the state is as good as bankrupt, there are
immigration issues, weird old-standing racial segregation issues (all the
black people live in Oakland), problems with violence, in LA there is
pollution, if you are ever stuck in the out-state areas, there are a lot of
scary hillbilly people with monster trucks and guns, etc.

Some people are truly affected by politics and state budgets and health care
and that sort of stuff, and if you are one of those people it might be a
headache. I do know people who packed up and moved to Germany, or wherever.
But I've been to Germany and I would pick California, even with all it's
problems.

It's definitely worth visiting for a year or two if you have the opportunity.
If the chaos proves too much to deal with you can always move back to Sweden.

------
edelweiss
Recomendation: Come check out Vienna Austria first.

I am a "U.S. Citizen", "born in the USA", whose parents were also "born in the
USA". I moved my family to Vienna, Austria 8 years ago. I have for 4 years,
owned and operated my own business, a GmbH here.

Vienna. The #1 city in the world 2 years in a row.

<http://www.mercer.com/qualityoflivingpr#City_Ranking_Tables>

First U.S. City, HONOLULU is at #31 with San Francisco at #32.

Insurance: US versus Austria

Three years ago, my daughter, at the age of 14, was diagnosed with morbid
Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis, a life threatening condition. She spent 4 weeks
in a hospital, with the total out of pocket cost of 280 euro for her meals.
100 % of the hospital costs and medical procedures was covered by insurance
which costs my family 2400 euros per year.

In the U.S., in 2003, we paid $15,000 per year for insurance, with a $5500 per
person deductible. My wife had her Gaul Bladder removed, and it cost us
$11,000 deductible + all of the customary procedures which the insurance
companies routinely refuse to pay until you take them to court.

My daughters hospital stay, and continuing medical treatments in the U.S.
would certainly have led to a filing for bankruptcy (70 percent of all
bankruptcy filings are due to medical bills). Instead, the annual costs of
treatments in Austria is 240 euros per year, continuing hospital visits, and
Methotrexate Injections.

FYI: Higher education is 100% taxpayer funded in Austria.

As long as a large majority of the U.S. voting public continue to believe that
taxes are "theft" rather than paying their "fair share" of the "high financial
costs of personal freedom and safety", and continue to refuse to admit that
affordable healthcare is a basic human right, staying in Europe is a much
better option in my opinion.

~~~
maxawaytoolong
I spent a month in Vienna, Austria.

The price you pay for that sort of quality of life is that it is also perhaps
the most boring place on earth next to Zurich or the other Swiss cities listed
in that particular top 10.

~~~
mlxer
How are those places boring? No nightlife(can't be true)?

~~~
maxawaytoolong
The Swiss are very insular and unfriendly. The Austrians are a little better.
However, in both places it seemed impossible to meet any local person. I will
say though that I used to be a skateboarder and hung out in Laussanne, and the
skate crowd there was great, as they usually are throughout the world. The
nightlife is very strange, IMO. The clubs play a weird mix of pounding techno
and horrifying "classic oldies" music. I could not find anything to do at
night besides a "club." (In the USA there are coffee shops, or simple bars, or
bookstores that stay open late, or even lit parks to play basketball, soccer,
etc) No club in these countries were as weird as German nightclubs, though.
Vienna does have a large range of classical music type stuff, which is why I
was there.

I have not been to any of these places since 2002, so perhaps things have
improved. Take it with a grain of salt, I was also just a tourist. In
contrast, it's very difficult to describe any aspect of California as "boring"
unless you are an angsty teenager stuck in the burbs...

------
edelweiss
I lived in Boulder Colorado for 2.5 years, and really enjoyed climbing "the
flatirons", Longs Peak, and many of the other 14k peaks.

Boulder is an awesome town, sadly it has all of the same problems of the rest
of the US.

Now I get a sane and sensible government, safety, compassion for the poor,
excellent free education, and the breathtaking Swiss and Austrian Alps to
climb!

Check out the annual Vienna Research Festival which took place this weekend!

<http://www.science.co.at> [http://www.zit.co.at/views/event-single-
view/article/das-wie...](http://www.zit.co.at/views/event-single-
view/article/das-wiener-forschungsfest-2010/73.html)

The MetaLab, one of the very first "hacker spaces" in the world.
<http://metalab.at/wiki/English>

Everything is modern and clean here, and you really see your tax dollars
providing a better community for all.

One of the largest open air rock concerts <http://www.2010.donauinselfest.at/>

New Years celebrations:

<http://www.stadt-wien.at/index.php?id=silvesterpfad-wien>

Ice Skating at city hall: <http://www.wienereistraum.com/>

------
edelweiss
I am a Republican, a conservative, a believer in limited government, and a
parent to this current generation now entering college, and I have much to
regret.

I lived in the “silicon valley” of California from 1979 – 1984 and again from
1988 – 1993.

Upon my first arrival, my first year of high school, I was in for a terrible
shock, to find having left a first world schooling to arrive in a 2nd world
dilapidated school system.

Prop 13, and the likewise self centered legislation were the cause of this
precipitous decline.

Yes, we were indeed blinded by charismatic personalities such as Ronald
Reagan. I believe in hard work, and looking out for others less fortunate, and
investing in my community.

I am proud of my country, proud to be an american citizen, proud of the
majority of its hard working and deeply caring people. I however, am revolted
by the state and federal governments of the past 30 years.

A government that largely reflects the will of a small number (however a
majority loyal voting group) blind and ignorant, shrill, largely self centered
and mean spirited people. These are members of my own political party, and
largely conservatives in the Democratic Party.

I have been very fortunate to travel widely across the globe for business
purposes. I have been in nearly all of the “great cities” of the world. I was
shocked and surprised to find several countries with far better quality of
life than that which I found in the U.S., thus began my “great awakening
education” as to the cause of the ills of our great nation. I looked in the
mirror and found myself to blame. I spent the next 3 years attempting to
convince ANY of my fellow (majority voting) U.S. citizens in the error of
their ways. Having spectacularly failed to do so, I packed up our family and
moved to a new country.

I left the U.S. 8 years ago, with my wife and 3 children, to move to Vienna,
Austria (ranked for 2 years in a row as the best city in the world).

The tax rate for the average middle class citizen here is 50 %. It is the
closest thing to heaven, one can find on this earth. I do not mind at all,
paying far more in taxes, as I can clearly see the benefits of doing so.

As an american, as a conservative republican, I suffer a continuing Cognitive
Dissonance, unable to resolve the seemingly incompatible simultaneous support
of aspects of the SPÖ, the Social Party of Austria. The evil socialism, which
as americans we were raised to believe, was so thoroughly “UN-American”, and
threatened america. I have seen the centrist socialist ideals succeed here in
Austria, where right wing conservatism has clearly failed america.

Austria also has a small shrill, bigoted, and self centered group of people
like those who ultimately dethroned america’s prosperity. They are known as
the FPÖ, the so called “freedom party of Austria”, and their brethren the BZÖ,
and their sympathizers in the ÖVP. However these people are but a small
(however growing) minority of the voting group.

Left unchallenged, they shall ultimately destroy the Austria they claim to
want to preserve. I do my best to educate all Austrians that these persons are
misguided, and show them the United States as proof of the fate which
certainly awaits them, if they remain on their self destructive course of
politics.

Vienna is a social democratic city. As an American, I find it largely
balanced. People have good jobs, guaranteed high quality healthcare
(socialized medicine), and provide nearly free (300 euros per semester) higher
education. The society takes care of its most needy of citizens.

Yes they have entirely too much bureaucracy, and yes the politicians are
highly paid (far more than in the US), however surprisingly as a result they
are largely honest and uncorrupted persons.

Austria has an unemployment rate of 4.7 percent vs 9.6 for the US.

[http://www.newsweek.com/2010/08/15/interactive-
infographic-o...](http://www.newsweek.com/2010/08/15/interactive-infographic-
of-the-worlds-best-countries.html)

------
edelweiss
If you want to live in a community of self centered people, who never speak
with their neighbors (the famous California 7 foot tall privacy fence, and
gated communities).

The beaches are beautiful, however you had better be rich and live close, as
most now take several hours to get to, if at all possible (forget finding a
parking place after 8AM).

The cost of housing is CRIMINAL, all of the infrastructure is crumbling, the
value of all of your hard earned tax dollars is squandered, with no visible
trace of their impact on the quality of life and community.

California has WAY TOO MANY PEOPLE NOW, it was a far better place in the 70's

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edelweiss
Vienna is one of the key research and development cities in the world.

A very strong investment environment for startups.

<http://www.wien.gv.at/forschung/>

SchnitzelConf is a 1-day, full-contact conference in Vienna, Austria on
September 7. The focus: creating products, launching businesses, and charging
real money. <http://schnitzelconf.com/>

------
edelweiss
An American creates a startup in Vienna

[http://unicornfree.com/2010/why-im-putting-on-a-
bootstrappin...](http://unicornfree.com/2010/why-im-putting-on-a-
bootstrapping-conference-in-vienna/)

