
The dark legacy of Carlos Castaneda (2007) - dbcooper
http://www.salon.com/2007/04/12/castaneda/
======
blackSnake
I first heard of Castaneda 7 years ago when I was at university. I started
with the first book "The Teachings of Don Juan" and proceeded with reading all
his other works. I was fascinated not only with the story he was telling but
more so, the practical wisdom he revealed.

One of the techniques he revealed in his books for expanding your awareness as
a human being was to consciously diffuse your gaze for long stretches of time.
In other words, in your day to day life, most people, myself included,
navigate through the world with fixed vision. If I were to walk down a hallway
or through a hiking trail, I would normally look at a tree, then maybe at a
bird, then maybe some clouds might catch my attention, squirrel jumps off a
log, etc. and I would go on like this. His suggestion was to take in the whole
panoramic view, constantly engaged in peripheral vision, not focusing on any
one particular object, for hours at a time. After consistent experimenting
with this particular technique, I came to one realization that it was a tool
that can be used to quiet the mind, similar to a sorts of meditation. It was
my introduction to the study of energy (I study Internal Martial Arts).

There were other practical wisdoms embodied in his texts and that held my
attention for many years. It wasn't until recently that I began to read of
Castaneda and the shadows that began to surround his legacy. To be honest, it
didn't take away from the treasure of his stories and wisdom. Most, if not all
his concepts, can be traced back in time to different religions, groups of
people, other yogis and individuals, etc. I believe that ideas and
methodologies do not belong to any individuals. They are just mediums that the
universe uses to express its consciousness. We say if it weren't for scientist
X, this theory wouldn't come to fruition but who knows? I remember reading
once about an important theory that a scientist discovered (galileo?) that
another scientist was uncovering at about the same time but got beaten to the
punch. They were not in the same geographic region but it was interesting to
read about an idea being ripe and wanting to be expressed to who is available
and able. I digress.

Castaneda had a positive influence on many people and a negative influence on
others, as the stories in the article revealed. Such is the way of humanity
and life, and you make your mark on this world however you see fit. One door
opens, another one closes. Castaneda was the first to open up doors for me, so
he has a special place in my heart, as imperfect as he may have been.

~~~
lostphilosopher
If you thought the scientist A and scientist B discovering X at the same time
phenomenon was neat you'll probably like Kevin Kelly's take on it
([https://www.amazon.com/What-Technology-Wants-Kevin-
Kelly/dp/...](https://www.amazon.com/What-Technology-Wants-Kevin-
Kelly/dp/0143120174)). More or less he claims that not only does that sort of
pattern occur, but that that's the norm, and that all human advancement,
biological, social, technical etc. is a part of evolution.

~~~
blackSnake
Thanks for that gem. Will add to my list

------
jerry40
At least his lucid dreams techniques are not that difficult to reproduce. I
stopped them many years ago after I had strange experience of waking up for
several times in a row. I woke up, went to a next room and, all of a sudden, I
realised that it was still a dream. After short panic I woked up again only to
repeat the story. And so on, actually I'm not sure if I've really woked up
that day or I'm still in that dream and once I'll discover myself opening eyes
there again.

~~~
arunix
That's such a profound experience! Do you have a reference for learning those
techniques?

~~~
jerry40
Yes, a rule of thumb is to remember to look at your hands in a dream. You even
may look at them in reality (or "reality") to get a habit. After you look at
hands in a dream you remember that you in a dream. Next difficult thing is to
be able not to ruin a dream and to try to explore it. I constantly tried to go
through walls in my room or to fly - no success :) Also it is possible to keep
attention at the period when you're go from reality to a dream. It feels like
your body made of a stone and you can't move and then you're in a dream.

------
oldmancoyote
I took Castaneda's experiences as reflecting his impressions of reality under
the influence of both a powerful personality (Don Juan) and drugs not as a
description of scientific reality itself. His books offered considerable
philosophical truth as well an understanding of how others might experience
reality. I consider them worth reading.

~~~
kretash
I'm considering picking one up. Which one would you recommend out of all of
them?

~~~
oldmancoyote
Start with the first one: Don Juan, A Yaqui Way of Knowledge.

------
Bakary
Although the subject matter is captivating and the article well written, the
whole thing left a bitter taste in my mouth. It really does seem to be the
case that charismatic individuals can, as a rule of thumb, get away with
almost anything at all.

I do understand the need to escape the "tedium of life" as one of the witches
put it but it's still highly irritating to see otherwise normal people be
consumed by conmen. I like to think it wouldn't happen to me, but seeing how
skilled this guy was I'm starting to believe I would fall prey to someone like
him just as easily as those women did.

~~~
chippy
Whilst there are of course vulnerable individuals who fall prey, are
captivated and consumed by conmen, I think that's making things too simply -
it's both more truthful, more difficult and more worrying to say that these
individuals have their own choice, and freedom to make it.

It's more comforting to think that people are kidnapped, brainwashed and
forced to do and think things by evil men - it takes all responsibility from
the equation - that people are in this case "seekers", that they choose to
live in this way, that there are benefits in living that life. Cults can be
good!

It's not helpful to believe this if you want to leave a cult of course! And
its not helpful to believe that truth in the future when you look back at your
time - better to think it was all wrong. To admit to yourself that you played
a part in your membership and had enjoyed some or most is much harder than
believing you had no choice. If I was in that situation, I would certainly
choose to believe I was 100% a victim - it's healthier, better and logical for
me to do so.

So actually thinking that these people are vulnerable, weak, had no choice,
were made prey of, were captitvated, hypnotised and consumed by an evil conman
is actually a psychologically easier and often better thing to do! (if not
really factual or truthful)

~~~
Bakary
It's not so much that I deny that these people had agency but rather that I
think that the way the brain works makes charisma the single most important
trait in terms of determining what a person can achieve. I am more annoyed by
the victims and their poor choices than the conman himself, to be honest. Once
charismatic people discover what they can do, the temptation to use those
powers is simply too great to resist from their perspective.

As I said, I believe that I am vulnerable to these types myself, but I do not
regard myself as having no choice. Instead, I am simply aware that some
aspects of social interaction mean that charismatic people can exert a
stronger influence on my choices than many other factors, and that I'm capable
to make choices that seem logical under the influence of strong emotion but
seem utterly stupid in retrospect. Once again, not denying agency but being
cognizant of its limitations.

------
throwanem
Those this way interested might also find rewarding the _Illuminatus!_ trilogy
by Shea and Wilson; it pretends no special mystical insight, has served as the
foundational myth of approximately zero cults (fewer than Heinlein!), and
includes at least one dolphin. Does Castaneda have dolphins? Well, I haven't
read him myself, but the closest thing the Internet knows about is a College
of Staten Island Dolphin Athletics - I suppose I would've thought they are
athletic enough already, but go figure - which apparently boasts a star
swimmer sharing the name. So instead of Castaneda having dolphins, we find
that the situation is precisely opposite, and indeed the dolphins have
Castaneda, which is probably just as well for him, since dolphins are
constitutionally immune to bullshit and he will likely have a much less
complicated life this time around. And, since _Illuminatus!_ has dolphins, by
the transitive relation we know that _Illuminatus!_ is a strict superset of
Castaneda, and therefore more worth reading, or at least more worth reading
first.

~~~
empath75
I think our current political culture would be immeasurably improved by
everyone reading Illuminatus! and Foucault's Pendulum.

~~~
lostphilosopher
I'll be reading Illuminatus! since you've related it to Pendulum. I came to
Pendulum after seeing it related to Labyrinths
([https://www.amazon.com/Labyrinths-Directions-Paperbook-
Jorge...](https://www.amazon.com/Labyrinths-Directions-Paperbook-Jorge-
Borges/dp/0811216993)) if by any chance you haven't read that you should check
it out.

~~~
throwanem
I already added _Pendulum_ to my list based on empath75's mention of it;
thanks for mentioning _Labyrinths_ , and I've added that, too.

------
dagw
I read most of Castaneda's books as a teenager (early 90's) and loved them.
However this is honestly the first time I've heard of anybody considering them
anything other than allegorical fiction, modern mythology and philosophy. The
idea that they where supposed to be read as non-fiction had honestly never
crossed my mind

~~~
jevgeni
I read Castaneda in school, where I heard about the books from a buddy of
mine. I really liked the aesthetics of the universe in the books, which I
always saw as fictional. My buddy though took the books at face value... He
was also into dianetics for a bit, so there's that... :/

------
exodust
A bit odd the author of this article published a novel called "A Separate
Reality". He could have at least tried to think of an original title.

A Separate Reality - the original Castaneda novel is a lot of fun. Painfully
obvious it's fiction, almost fairytale-like, but highly entertaining. Not to
mention the wisdom for a twenty-something receptive to any "grounded" life-
hack and spiritual skills that aren't delivered from certified curriculums, or
worse your parents. I remember one of the books taught me literally how to
walk properly, via one of Don Juan's scolding remarks to the apprentice as
they hiked up the mountain! Great stuff.

~~~
gerbilly
> how to walk properly

How does one walk properly? I'm genuinely curious.

~~~
yebyen
Could be talking about this[1]:

You have to curl your fingers gently as you walk in order to keep your
attention on the trail and the surroundings. Your ordinary way of walking is
debilitating and you should never carry anything in your hands. If things have
to be carried one should use a knapsack or any sort of carrying net or
shoulder bag. By forcing the hands into a specific position one is capable of
greater stamina and greater awareness.

[1]:
[http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/donjuan3.html](http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/donjuan3.html)

This site is where I read some of Castaneda's work for the first time. He
doesn't just tell you how to walk, he tells you how to sleep, which side to go
to sleep on, how to intend things and how to project your intent, how to set
up dreaming, how to run like a warrior (sprinting in the dark), and a whole
bunch of fun stuff like that. It's very easy reading, you can probably get
through all of this stuff at least inside of a day or two if you don't have
much to do.

I like the description as "it really happened! fiction" \-- this is exactly
what I think I felt when I was reading it.

------
havella
Peter Coyote narration of his main book is pretty good. I credit it with
getting me into audiobooks.

------
fsiefken
For more info on the legacy and body of Castaneda work see Sustained Action:

[http://www.sustainedaction.org/](http://www.sustainedaction.org/)
[http://sustainedreaction.yuku.com/](http://sustainedreaction.yuku.com/)

I always wondered if the scifi author Peter Hamilton was inspired by
Castaneda's Flyer predator when writing about the Starflyer (as he was
inspired by hippy culture in general when describing the Star People and hippy
bus in The Night's Dawn)
[http://peterfhamilton.wikia.com/wiki/Starflyer](http://peterfhamilton.wikia.com/wiki/Starflyer)

[https://www.metahistory.org/gnostique/gnosticastaneda/CCgnos...](https://www.metahistory.org/gnostique/gnosticastaneda/CCgnosis.php)

This is perhaps getting into twilight zone territory, but in 2001 there were a
series of slightly changed intruiging spam messages clearly referring to
Castaneda's Flyer (called the Entity) and a prophecy coming true 'later this
year' a month before 11 september 2001. I think I tracked it down to some
vague viral marketing for a B movie on alternate realities in Australia, but
sometimes I still wonder about the coincidence... a real world 'man in the
high castle'?
[http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18796](http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18796)

------
mythrwy
Castaneda being a fraud and a liar who's teachings damaged at least some
people and caused at least some problems puts him in company with any number
of highly respected religious figures and prophets.

Which, if you say anything about those it's in bad taste at minimum or
possibly even a capital crime.

------
givan
I like Don Juan's explanation for our lizard brain in "Active side of
infinity"

[Long ago, the native sorcerer/shamans of Mexico] discovered that we have a
companion for life," he said, as clearly as he could. "We have a predator that
came from the depths of the cosmos, and took over the rule of our lives. Human
beings are its prisoners. The predator is our lord and master. It has rendered
us docile; helpless. If we want to protest, it suppresses our protest. If we
want to act independently, it demands that we don't do so.

They took over because we are food for them, and they squeeze us mercilessly
because we are their sustenance. Just as we rear chickens in chicken coops,
gallineros, the predators rear us in human coops, humaneros. Therefore, their
food is always available to them.

Think for a moment, and tell me how you would explain the contradiction
between the intelligence of man the engineer, and the stupidity of his systems
of beliefs; or the stupidity of his contradictory behavior. Sorcerers believe
that the predators have given us our systems of beliefs; our ideas of good and
evil; our social mores. The predators are the ones who set up our hopes and
expectations, and dreams of success or failure. They have given us
covetousness, greed, and cowardice. It is the predators who make us
complacent, routinary, and egomaniacal

They gave us their mind! Do you hear me? The predators give us their mind
which becomes our mind. The predators' mind is baroque, contradictory, morose,
and filled with the fear of being discovered any minute now

The more I thought about it, and the more I talked to and observed myself, and
my fellow men, the more intense the conviction that something was rendering us
incapable of any activity or any interaction or any thought that didn't have
the self as its focal point.

The flyers are an essential part of the universe, and they must be taken as
what they really are; awesome, monstrous. They are the means by which the
universe tests us. We are energetic probes created by the universe and it's
because we are possessors of energy that has awareness that we are the means
by which the universe becomes aware of itself.

The flyers are the implacable challengers. They cannot be taken as anything
else. If we succeed in doing that, the universe allows us to continue

------
HillaryBriss
_...the worst thing that can happen is when you’re loved and loved and then
abused and abused, and there are no rules, and the rules keep changing, and
you can never do right, but then all of a sudden they’re kissing you. That’s
the most crazy-making behavioral modification there is._

in some cases, startup founders experience this same roller coaster ride.

------
SirLJ
Interesting read, thanks! Btw I did enjoy his books when I was a teenager, but
never fought they where real...

~~~
clock_tower
You were in excellent company, then! I've read other anthropological books
from the period that took Castaneda more or less at face value...

------
TheGrassyKnoll
Even as 'fiction' they're a great read. I'll read them all again someday.

------
dfraser992
Was it Josephus who called Christians "literal minded fools" for believing in
the literal truth of the same foundational myth of so many other religions at
that time? To take a myth literally does it disservice; there is value in the
basic myth of a dead, dying, and reborn god. If you don't think so, then you
are incapable of understanding and appreciating "American Gods" properly as
well as any other aspect of religion / spirituality - and I feel sorry for
you.

Anyhow, America in 1965-1970s was just as naive, from this later vantage point
in time. Carlos was a trickster and to write up a fable that repackaged all
the info he acquired in his extensive research as a real world anthropology
study makes perfect sense. His early books has literary value, and for those
who can see below the surface of it, some more value. You just have to be open
to it, and that is how a trickster operates.

A friend of mine who has Native American ancestry was livid when I gave her
the first book to read - there were things in there "not for the white man to
know". I understand what she meant these days. White people are idiots.

I have heard of de Mille, have his book somewhere, but had no idea he was a
Scientologist. That explains _everything_. Big upvote for sunsbelly. A few
people I know who lived the "60s" are rather down on Castaneda. They
understand what he was trying to do, but they had friends who were too literal
minded and so got lost in the bullshit. It was a chaotic era. But there is
always going to be a large number of people who get lost in the bullshit, the
current bullshit being around ayahuasca these days.

~~~
wu-ikkyu
>A friend of mine who has Native American ancestry was livid when I gave her
the first book to read - there were things in there "not for the white man to
know".

Could you give an example or two of such things?

~~~
dfraser992
She did not go into detail, was a bit upset, and I was driving at the time...
I would guess there were allusions to rituals and the like; it has been two
decades since I read the first book so I'd have to again before making an
attempt to answer your question. The important thing is to understand the
allegorical nature of the story and what psychological insights about life one
might get from it, as another commentator pointed out. "White people" (the
stereotype) don't have a clue about such things, hence my wisecrack.

------
lostphilosopher
This sounds like an example of "pseudo-x" book. Where the "x" is science,
philosophy, anthropology, or something like that. Not a book I would read
expecting fact, or any pragmatic insight into the mechanics of the world or
the self, but useful in accessing new perspective. An experience something
like Kant's aesthetic theory of "free play" between the imagination and
understanding. I find being in that "free play" mind state can boost my
creativity and productivity (YMMV). In that sense I can appreciate a book like
this and find it valuable. But there's certainly a dangerous line between
'outside the box thinking' and 'outside of reason thinking'. The first is
useful and creative, the later can be genuinely harmful.

I wish so many people wouldn't try to force things they like into the
categories of science or truth, and would be ok with having subjective
appreciation for them and getting personal satisfaction from them. I also wish
people wouldn't feel the need to try to bash someone's
appreciation/satisfaction of a thing with it's scientific incongruity. As long
as that thing isn't harming others - meh, live your life.

------
sunsbelly
I find it curious that Richard de Mille, the person who helped permanently mar
Castaneda's reputation, was a top Scientologist. Though this is pure
speculation, I believe de Mille, being L. Ron Hubbard's personal assistant,
would have been instructed to take down Castaneda. As an up and coming
spiritual belief system/religion, Scientologists might have seen Castaneda's
popularity with those on a spiritual path, as a threat. I read a few books by
Castaneda when I was younger, and enjoyed them immensely. So when I later
found out that his research was "proven" to be a hoax it made me quite sad,
and diminished in my eyes, one of the literary and spiritual heroes of my
youth. But when I read up on de Mille's aforementioned involvement in a shady
religion, one that spouts the most absurd things as gospel, it gave me a bit
of comfort. Though it doesn't falsely de Mille's research, it definitely is a
conflict of interest, or rather, it shows a blatant hypocrisy, and makes me
wonder if he had an ulterior motive. How can a researcher, with a straight
face, claim someone has promulgated made up information, when they themselves
do so as well? Do I really need to give an example? Okay: Xenu.

~~~
cousin_it
De Mille left scientology around '54 because he got skeptical. Castaneda's
first book was published in '68\. De Mille published his takedown of Castaneda
in '76.

This interview with him is beautifully clear, probably because he's heard so
much bullshit wrapped with fancy words in his life:
[http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/interviews/d...](http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/interviews/demille.htm)

