

Need Bitcoins? This ATM takes dollars and funds your account - danboarder
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57570925-38/need-bitcoins-this-atm-takes-dollars-and-funds-your-account/

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halviti
Interesting concept, but it's only part of the way there.

I don't see any thought put into physical security, yet, which is arguably one
of the most important things when putting a box full of money anywhere.

Then, you have to factor in the cost of the box. Assuming they can actually
design an ATM quality/secure machine, who pays for it? Assuming the retailer
pays for it, what sort of return could a retailer expect for having the
device? TCO - How long will it take to pay off the investment.

Then on top of that you need to offer a service whereby people are emptying
the machines regularly. And since the people emptying these machines would be
putting their lives in danger handling money all of the time out in public,
you'd need to hire a professional firm like Brinks, or absorb the large costs
of trying to do this yourself.

Then assuming these guys want to get paid themselves, there will be
administrative costs as well.

How much does a bitcoin end up costing with all of the extra fees at the end
of the day? Is it worth it? Does a system where you have to walk/drive to a
location with cash in hand to purchase bitcoins, and pay a significantly
larger amount of money for them offer value?

I can see this idea appealing to the anonymous aspect of the currency, but
since any location these are placed in would have to be under constant video
surveillance, that makes it a little more tricky.

In the end, since there already exists the ability to get bitcoins with cash
at WalMart and CVS via bitinstant, I don't think this idea will go much
farther than the hobbyboards and display they've tucked into a box and
connected to the internet.

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oleganza
Idea: allow selling BTC for dollars too. And to maintain balance on the
machine, adjust the exchange rate dynamically according to how much dollar
bills are remaining or how much room is left. So people will keep it balanced
to their own benefit and to the benefit of owners who would pay the difference
in exchange rates and not do emptying/filling by themselves.

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mjdecour
That is pretty awesome... I can't believe how much Bitcoin has grown in the
past 6 months. Kicking myself for not investing.

~~~
danboarder
I agree it's awesome, though I wonder how many approach BTC as an 'investment'
rather than a currency to actually use and buy things with?

~~~
eksith
Quite a large number, I'm afraid. I know a few people who keep hundreds to
several thousand+ without spending any in anticipation of a massive buyout (or
financial collapse). These were very early adopters that ran their vid cards
24/7 for years.

~~~
josephagoss
The good thing about the price increasing is that the early adopters are more
willing to spend BTC and also convert BTC into fiat.

This increases the overall value of BTC because as more people who own BTC
bought in at a higher price, it will be harder and harder for the price to
crash down to levels lower than the average price of BTC purchased. (I argue
this based on the psychology of buying BTC at a certain price)

Back when the large 2011 crash happened and even now to a slightly lesser
degree the average BTC acquired/bought is still low, (i'd wager around $5 for
the entire network of BTC still accessible, as a example)

As more earlies sell and purchase items, this average will increase, and as it
does the possibility for BTC to fall below this average becomes harder and
harder.

~~~
eksith
I remember that crash. A couple of those people were freaking out. And I think
your price estimate is correct.

I'd much rather they start spending them within the BTC economy than cashing
in for "real" currency instead. The biggest hurdle for BTC isn't even the
hoarding, it's that they hoard just because it's still not seen as a real
alternative by most folks so they're waiting for the "realization, spike" in
prices (I don't think we're there yet).

Few people these days actually hoard cash; instead, they invest in commodities
or companies. But these people are hoarding for the value of the currency
itself. It's like gold all over again.

I must confess though, the first time I heard about BTC, I did take it for
just a very elaborate ponzi scheme. The irony is that the hoarding may, if
left unchecked, turn it into exactly that.

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mootothemax
Lovely idea, but I can't help worrying that this would be a money launderer's
dream, especially with the aim of installing thousands of these machines all
over the place.

It's a difficult one, as money laundering is one of the easiest justifications
governments can use for shutting down such services (whether justified or
not).

~~~
nwh
Isn't it the same as walking into a bank and asking for a cashiers cheque?

~~~
mootothemax
_Isn't it the same as walking into a bank and asking for a cashiers cheque?_

Does anyone with ill-gotten gains keep them in a bank account? So no.

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frozenport
_He said accepting Bitcoin was more reliable and safer than dealing with
charge-backs, credit card fraud, and "scam sales from certain Asian countries
like Malaysia or Indonesia."_

This is worrying because it means consumers have no protection.

~~~
Anderkent
_This is worrying because it means consumers have no protection._

I think in most transactions the seller is well-known and has to worry about
reputation effects, while the consumer may as well be anonymous. In which case
consumer protection is not that important.

For cases where both parties are anonymous/untrustworthy, you can use a
protection scheme like escrow.

That doesn't work when the payer can take his money back after the
transaction, of course.

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asmithmd1
The only problem I see is that it takes 10 to 30 minutes for a transaction to
be included in a block. If they give Bitcoins instantly could be double spent.

~~~
ewillbefull
Not precisely. The only time you really need to worry about confirmations is
when you're dealing with larger amounts. It costs a lot to pull off a double-
spend, more than a tiny ATM transaction anyway.

This is why SatoshiDice processes immediately, except for bets over 2-5 BTC.

~~~
swhitt
The reason why SatoshiDICE can do this is because they include the output of
the bet transaction as one of the inputs to the win/lose response transaction.

If part of the bet transaction is doublespent there's a good chance it won't
make it into a block. If the bet transaction doesn't make it into a block, the
response transaction won't either and is therefore worthless.

~~~
ewillbefull
Nobody can cheat SatoshiDICE by double-spending and spending their response
transaction, because the transactions are chained as you say. But this isn't
the kind of attack they're worried about.

If you broadcast a transaction and SatoshiDICE responds with a YouLoseTx, and
you have built a block containing a double-spending transaction, if you "lose"
you can broadcast your conflicting block. You wouldn't need much hashpower to
do this and still remain positive. It's called a Finney Attack.
<https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Double-spending#Finney_attack>

This is why they only immediately respond to smaller bets.

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epscylonb
In the image showing the internals, the boards they are using look a lot like
raspberry pis.

