
Adobe is going to kill Fireworks - paulbremer
https://twitter.com/DeeSadler/status/331209193451315202
======
quink
The perfect combination of vector and bitmap editing. I love Fireworks. My
guess is that Adobe just couldn't figure out how to make it better. It was
already pretty much all it needed to be by about Fireworks MX. And it remains,
to this day, a very different codebase.

User-friendly but quite powerful behind the scenes. I could never get the hang
of Photoshop or Illustrator. Sure, Photoshop may have features or Illustrator
knows how to do text flow, but if you have creativity and you know what you
want, then Fireworks does everything possible to get out of your way yet is
even intuitive for beginners with the same UI. Everything is discoverable, all
the features are quite orthogonal to each other and it throws open how
ridiculous the need to choose between vector and bitmap everywhere else really
is.

If this turns out to be true, it's a sad day.

~~~
untog
Agreed. I can only assume that at least 50% of the people that use Photoshop
only do it because they've never tried Fireworks (or have to, because everyone
else does). Of course, that means Adobe is sort of competing with it's own
product, so it was inevitable that Fireworks would disappear some day.

To the best of my knowledge, Fireworks has no competitor or open source
equivalent. If anyone is thinking about it, you'd have a customer for life
from me.

------
jvzr
I've been using Fireworks for years, back to Macromedia Fireworks 4. It's much
better/faster than Photoshop for web design (rounded square corners come to
mind).

If you work on a Mac, consider Sketch by Bohemian Coding :
<http://www.bohemiancoding.com/sketch/> It's a great app, is updated very
frequently and has come a very long way and could almost be seen as already
superior to Fireworks CS6 in most ways.

~~~
neovive
Sketch looks nice, but seems like more of an Illustrator competitor than a
Fireworks or PS replacement. Also, how does it handle PSD import. PSD is
pretty much the standard for layered image sharing and FW opens PSD's near-
perfectly.

~~~
jvzr
It's definitely a Fireworks replacement: slices export, CSS export, etc. It
functions like Illustrator in the way that it uses a board (group of assets)
rather than a limited canvas (a single asset), but it is _not_ a software for
doing illustrations or whatever you call what Illustrator does (not native
speaker here, obv).

Edit: it does @2x automated exports too, for instance. Quite handy for iOS
coding or responsive design.

I've never had to open PSDs with Sketch, so I can't tell. If you have any
question, feel free to tweet their account on twitter: I hear they are
reactive and very friendly. And definitely close to developers and designers:
a lot of the features added this year have come from user suggestions. Can't
tell the same story with Adobe...

------
neovive
Sorry to hear this news. First Google Reader and now Fireworks! The writing
has been on the wall for many years, but it is still quite upsetting. I've
been a heavy user of Fireworks since version 1 since it really gets the job
done vs. Photoshop for layouts, slicing and exporting. The workflow for web
design just feels faster when compared to Photoshop. The combined
vector/bitmap flow is unparalleled and Photoshop layers feel quite slow for
simple web workflows. I can go months without opening Photoshop and it feels
like a beast when I do. Hopefully, Adobe can make a "Fireworks"-friendly or
"Web Design" workspace in PS.

Fireworks fits an excellent niche, which is probably why Adobe likely won't
sell it. I really liked some the new version 6 features, such as instantly
turning designs in CSS3.

Sorry to see you go FW.

~~~
gexla
> Hopefully, Adobe can make a "Fireworks"-friendly or "Web Design" workspace
> in PS.

This would make sense, but I doubt they would be able to pull it off with the
UI. Maybe they have decided that they have the market and people will just
have to migrate.

~~~
neovive
It's definitely wishful thinking on my part. The UI in Photoshop would make
this difficult. I might just have to switch to Illustrator for more of my
layout work since I dislike the bitmap-heavy workflow of PS. Everything
besides editing photos or building composites in PS feels non-intuitive.

------
tarcon
My UI/UX design company developed our own tool to replace Photoshop for our
rapid prototyping and UI design work. It is publicly available by now.
<http://www.antetype.com>

We switched from Photoshop to Antetype company-wide now and we don't miss it
(It's still here for Icon Design though). We also felt Antetype superior to
Fireworks as it has ways do deal with dynamic layouts and prototypic
interactivity.

------
colemorrison
WHAT THE HELL.

It does CSS Sprites

CSS Properties

LIVE MOCKUPS

God damn adobe. I've gone so long without having to touch photoshop or
illustrator for web dev because FIREWORKS IS PERFECT.

------
ericcholis
Often times I feel like I'm in the minority, but I rarely use Fireworks for
anything. Perhaps I'm just more comfortable in Photoshop, but I often found
that Fireworks didn't fit my workflow.

I've read a ton of articles on how/why I should use Fireworks for web design.
Perhaps somebody could inform me on what I'm missing.

~~~
untog
I am the reverse of you, so I can't talk with any great authority, either. But
every time I've used Photoshop I've gotten sick of having to create dozens of
layers for everything i do- in Fireworks everything is it's own independent,
editable vector object. I just find it far, far easier.

~~~
neovive
Not having to think about layers (until they are actually needed) is my
favorite core feature of FW. Why couldn't Adobe just add this as an option to
PS.

------
PixelCut
Our new vector drawing app, WebCode, is a nice replacement for Fireworks:
<http://www.webcodeapp.com/>

It generates CSS, JavaScript+Canvas and SVG code from your drawings in real
time and can also import PSD documents.

The generated code works great on both Retina and non-Retina displays. You can
even preview how your drawings would look on Retina displays directly in
WebCode. It inherited a lot of things from PaintCode (our app for Mac and iOS
developers), which makes it very nice for user interface design.

~~~
tarcon
How do you provide a preview for Retina displays on non-Retina displays?

~~~
kibibu
Zoom to 200%, and move the monitor twice as far away.

------
josefresco
Sad and a little bit worried about this. While I will still use Fireworks for
years after it's death (assuming I can), I'm not so sure what the path is for
designers like me who use Fireworks for complete web design.

Unlike most here in this thread, I don't use FW for wireframing, prototyping
or simple UI design. It's been our primary design for complete web/ui design
tool for over a decade.

Let's hope Adobe comes to their senses.

~~~
shawnc
Yeah, I se/used Fireworks for almost everything. Designing in it is the
easiest i've ever experienced, and I've been using it for over a decade as
well.

------
nhangen
Fireworks is the only Adobe product I use religiously. I never understood why
it didn't take off with the web design world. I believe it to be the most
intuitive of the bunch.

Simple things like copy/paste work like they should, and whereas PS might be
more robust, it takes 2-3x more clicks to achieve what FW can do in just a
few.

~~~
colemorrison
yes yes yes. I can't believe this at all...

------
pqdbr
I can't believe this. Photoshop is not meant for web design, we only have
Fireworks for the task.

A simple task like selecting a layer in Photoshop makes me want to cry.

~~~
wmeredith
Right-click to get a list of layers under your pointer. Or you can set a
preference that click on an element automatically selects that layer in the
layer palette. This makes you cry?

~~~
kalleboo
Design with 300 layers. Trying to select a text layer. Gotta hit juuuust the
right pixel.

Or say you have grouped layers, and there's a semitransparent layer in one
group, and a background in another group, and 20 groups in between those
groups.

------
shawnc
I switched to Sketch because of Adobe's abysmal support and direction with
Fireworks. I'm not surprised this is happening, but I'm sad. I still use
Fireworks, but figured I had to start getting used to something else in
preparation.

They're stupid, Fireworks is awesome. Most people using Photoshop don't know
about Fireworks or think they 'should' use Photoshop, so they do. Even tho
it's a pain in the ass.

------
toddwahnish
Adobe is migrating everyone to the new cloud services, so it makes sense.
Fireworks > Edge Reflow / Dreamweaver, Flash > Edge Animate. Only problem is
that they're experimenting so much with new apps that I don't know what to
invest my time in learning (I'm looking at you Proto).

------
jurriaanr
Fireworks is/was also important in the workflow for flash professional. What
does this tell us about the future of that program? Personally I think it's a
stupid move of Adobe. They have been cashing on it for years, with very small
updates for big prices. Why stop cashing now ?

------
thinker
Been a Fireworks user for years for UI mockups and graphic design. Would be
tragic if this news is true. One alternative not mentioned here is
Omnigraffle. It is actually very well suited for UI design though not as much
for visual design but you can get pretty close.

------
lstamour
I knew the gig was up when the CC announcement today mentioned Photoshop had
adjustable rounded corner radius (the fact that this makes a press release
should make some people pause before using Photoshop for their web comps, not
that it will really stop anybody) and Illustrator now supports CSS exporting
for gradients and such (CSS exporting being a feature of Fireworks CS6).

I would feel less abandoned by Adobe if they could simply make a better
dedicated wireframing tool that shares the best of InDesign, Illustrator and
Photoshop rather than making me choose if today I want PDFs, Vector or Bitmap.

------
eric_carlisle
Hello Everyone, I've been a fireworks user since the product's initial
release. I consider it to be an essential tool for rapid prototyping,
designer-developer workflow, and Web graphic asset creation. Please consider
signing the following petition to either encourage Adobe to continue Fireworks
development or convert Fireworks to an open source project. thanks in advance
for your support!

[http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/dont-kill-adobe-
fireworks...](http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/dont-kill-adobe-fireworks/)

------
mmariani
This made me realize how much I miss Freehand which was way better and easier
then AI. Now Adobe kills another superior piece of software made by
Macromedia. On the other hand, Flash still lives strong.

Go figure.

~~~
rsl7
I used Freehand when it was made by Aldus. Back then, Deneba Canvas was pretty
good too.

~~~
porker
I remember Canvas - really enjoyed it!

------
gexla
Somewhat makes sense to me. I haven't used Fireworks in a long time and I'm
not a designer, but it seemed like it was a user friendly hybrid of Photoshop
(for raster) and Illustrator (for vector.) It seemed that together Photoshop
and Illustrator could do everything you needed for the web, but that required
a lot bigger payment, a lot of controls you didn't use, another software
program and there were some minor things that weren't quite as smooth for web
(aside from the UI.) I'm surprised Fireworks has lasted this long.

------
drivingmenuts
This is sad. Back when I was heaving in print-based design, I used Photoshop
religiously, but when I switched to web, Fireworks was my tool of choice.

I need FW way more than I need PS these days.

How's Acorn as a replacement?

------
bede
I don't think this comes as a huge surprise to many. There were big hopes for
Fireworks after the buyout that never materialised, and while it has seen
steady — albeit minor —iteration since, it never ended up inheriting the
Photoshop features that I for one hoped it would.

In stark contrast to PS, FW is one of a select few pieces of Adobe creative
software that always 'just worked' as I expected. It is a remarkably intuitive
tool for many tasks, and it'll be a shame to see it go.

------
jayflux
I do hope this isn't true, Fireworks certainly had its place, Photoshop was
overkill for designing web pages.

I suppose it only fitted a small niche but it still did a great job!

------
jwarren
I've never really been able to solidly get into Fireworks, despite trying
several times. The fans love it, but I've personally found it very clunky.

However, a colleague swears by it for designing and developing HTML email
newsletters. The general state of support for HTML and CSS in email clients is
extremely poor, so you have to use inline styles and table-based layouts.
Fireworks is _perfect_ for this.

------
tvwonline
I've been looking for a good alternative for years, but keep coming back to
Fireworks. I am not surprised but still disappointed.

------
jimwalsh
I see more people writing about how they are using Illustrator to design sites
now than Fireworks/Photoshop. Claiming that it helps design responsive sites
better/more intuitively.

I haven't used Fireworks for years. Once you are proficient in Photoshop, I
rarely found a reason to open Fireworks even given all of its benefits.

~~~
quink
I don't really like this approach. Don't do web design in Illustrator, do it
in HTML5 + CSS3. Sure, it might take a little longer at first, but the time
saved over a longer time frame makes it worth it in so many different ways.

Instead, graphics software should be used for elements in the layout rather
than the layout itself.

It turns out that positioning is quite orthogonal to colour. Borders are
orthogonal to textures. Sizes are orthogonal to form design. Not entirely, but
that's, in the first instance, how they should be formalised before further
dependencies.

It is in combining them that we find beauty. And CSS3 is a far more suitable
way of doing just that in a considered fashion than Illustrator could ever be.

~~~
jimwalsh
I agree, I do a lot of design in browser now as well. I was just stating you
tend to see more articles about Illustrator and its benefits to a design
workflow over that of Fireworks.

------
levifig
The sad part of all of this is that there is still no true alternative to
Fireworks... anywhere! :\

~~~
souldoubt
It's true, nothing that combines its simplicity, focus, and ease of use.
Though fortunately there have been a number of great indie devs who've stepped
in to make terrific graphics editing software: Acorn & Pixelmator are among
the two best. My personal favorite (and closest true alternative) is Sketch:

<http://www.bohemiancoding.com/sketch/>

------
thehodge
I really hope this isn't true, I've yet to find a replacement for fireworks
either open or paid

~~~
jvzr
If you work on a Mac, Sketch is a worthy replacement:
<http://www.bohemiancoding.com/sketch/>

~~~
nmcfarl
It is! But it is vector only which may or may not be a concern. And it doesn't
import or export PSDs or AIs so if you live embedded in Adobe workflow it
probably isn't for you.

------
Aardwolf
This doesn't mean the software cannot be used anymore, right?

~~~
ghshephard
Not immediately, but once a software product is killed, you won't get updates
for future Operating Systems, no security updates, no support for new file
formats ... eventually it just dies a death of time decay.

~~~
tomrod
This would be a good time for Adobe to open source it, right? So it can be
ported to Linux and live forever?

~~~
WiseWeasel
As a competitor to PS and Illustrator, that will never happen.

~~~
tomrod
I thought PS and Illustrator were terrible tools in the competency domain of
Fireworks?

~~~
WiseWeasel
They're less efficient and more difficult to learn, but they are serviceable
for everything FW is used for.

------
ineedtosleep
Is there a real confirmation on this or is this all based on that tweet and
the 7 responses below it?

"People were telling me about it," isn't a good enough source for me.

~~~
rmason
She is a senior community leader in the Adobe user group community and runs a
designers conference. She is also a big Fireworks fan. If she's tweeting it,
believe me it's true.

------
TorbjornLunde
I think Adobe have slowly killed Fireworks for years by slowly letting it
languish (as opposed to the swift axe that cut Freehand).

------
Kiro
What do people use Fireworks for?

~~~
davej
User Interface design. I've tried pretty much every tool out there for UI
design but I keep coming back to Fireworks.

~~~
PixelCut
Have you tried PaintCode?

------
webwielder
Fireworks is an atrociously buggy, poorly designed piece of shit, but it's
stil been the best app for web and UI design.

However, in the past 6 months I've started using an app called Antetype
instead, and can't recommend it enough for screen design.
<http://antetype.com/>

~~~
bluepill
scuse my french but before saying that you should fucking learn how to use it

~~~
webwielder
What kind of rejoinder is that? I used it heavily for three years. It's a
joke. Here's a tiny fraction of the shit I encountered every day:
<http://fwsucks.tumblr.com/>

------
neovive
Hopefully someone from Adobe is able to comment on this news.

------
kmfrk
That's crazy. Why would Adobe want to do this?

------
brandan
<http://www.inkscape.org/>

~~~
Shorel
Nice for it being OSS and all that, but I had to edit XML just to reorder some
layers.

Definitely not the same features and polish.

~~~
brandan
<http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Layer_Dialog>

inkscape shares many features with fireworks. it's a great alternative for a
big chunk of similar applications.

~~~
Shorel
That dialog only worked _AFTER_ I edited the XML.

------
3stripe
I've managed with Potatochop for the past decade just fine...

------
intellection
Will it help Inkscape?

Could Inkscape advocate Adobe to let Fireworks live to help SVG grow?

~~~
drivingmenuts
Inkscape's QT-based(?) UI looks like a hot mess and feels just as bad on OS X.

It's probably fine for Windows, though.

~~~
intellection
Inkscape interface does most everything I need, except I miss Photoshop's
'Layer Effects' workflow, which makes designing and organizing filters less
messy.

I use Linux.

