

Egyptian Revolution Live [video] - sprachspiel
http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/?

======
kloncks
Egyptian here.

What I can't believe is the irresponsible behavior with taking down the
Internet in a civilized country smack-dab in the middle of the World. That
reckless behavior only goes to show how out of touch the current regime really
is. There's no thinking whatsoever in how catastrophic (economically,
politically, morally) such an action really is.

Yet beyond that, I'm just worried. I'm terrified actually. While the regime
needs to change, I'm not yet sure about the future. Will Islamists seize
power? Will another corrupt official do that? Will Chaos and Anarchy ensue?

The trouble with Tunisia is that we've yet to see the results of the
revolution. Things are developing...but we don't yet know if it's successful
or not.

Not to mention that certain events are making me very sad. I do realize it's
hard to mass-protest in a very sane manner...but something like lighting up
the National Democratic Party's HQ on fire, when it's across the street from
the National Museum (King Tut + 100,000 other priceless treasures) and there's
a huge threat of the fire spreading...just worries me. I remember when Iraq
was first attacked; the first things that were looted were priceless treasures
from Mesopotamia.

~~~
borism
When we had revolution in Russia in 1917 they attacked and looted czar's
palace. Then they made it into world renowned Hermitage museum.

King Tut's relics are the least of my worries.

~~~
kloncks
I wasn't trying to undermine the importance of the revolution. Just explaining
some of my worries of actions afterwards and using the National Museum as an
example.

\-------

Also, while I get what you're saying, Russia did lose a lot of priceless
artifacts from the Winter Palace.

Instead of travelling to St. Petersburg to see Raphael's Alba Madonna, I now
have to go to the National Gallery of Art in Washington. The Winter Palace
also lost other great works of art from Botticelli, van Eyck, Rembrandt,
Titian, among others.

We've had a long history of that happening to us. The Rosetta Stone's in
Britain, Nefertiti's in Berlin, and out of 36 Ancient EGYPTIAN obelisks only 9
are actually in the country of Egypt. The city of Rome, by itself, boasts 8. 9
if you count the Vatican.

So, no. I'm actually _really_ worried about our relics.

~~~
borism
my point was that while loss of some paintings is unfortunate, the change of
history which unfolded was magnitudes more tragic but also forward moving.

you should worry more that this revolution moves Egypt more on the progress
path (whichever you find right yourself), than what happens to some relics
(many of which you lost to colonial powers anyway).

~~~
Qz
That's like saying the wives of soldiers in Afghanistan shouldn't worry about
their husbands because Terrorism is much worse. We're advanced creatures, I
think we can handle worrying about multiple things at once.

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jacquesm
Al Jazeera is more and more a resource of quality, it's gotten to the point
that when you want news that is relatively spin free that you can go to the
BBC or to Al Jazeera. The interesting part for me is that they are a better
source of real info on the US and Europe than most local media.

The chances are though that that is because they're not reporting on their
'home turf', does that extend to them reporting on Arab affairs as well?

~~~
michaelchisari
Absolutely. Right now on the newsfeed, the journalist is holding the US
spokesperson's feet to the fire about the disconnect between the US' support
for Mubarak, and it's expressed principles in favor of democracy. They are
directly pointing out the hypocrisy of the US' position.

It's the kind of journalism we're just not used to anymore in the U.S.

~~~
mkramlich
Agreed that it is non-ideal and unpleasant that the US backs Mubarak. However,
you make a big assumption. Because in reality, the alternative to Mubarak is
not necessarily democracy. It might be another autocrat. And it might be
something even worse. Freedom does not necessarily lead to a bunch of shiny
happy people living safely on a shining hill. Sometimes it leads to anarchy or
genocide or war.

~~~
michaelchisari
_However, you make a big assumption._

I make no such assumption, but I'm not willing to support dictatorship in
order to avoid dictatorship. Straussian compromises of democratic values quite
honestly make my blood run cold.

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sprachspiel
What has happened so far: A curfew was put in place, it has done absolutely
nothing, the streets are full of people everywhere in the country. There are
reports of dozens of deaths. The headquarter of president Mubaraks party is on
fire for hours, no firefighter are there. The headquarter is next the most
important Egyptian museums. The police has no control over the streets, the
army was ordered in to enforce the curfew. The people are actually cheering as
the military is moving in. It is still unclear what the military will do.
Hillary Clinton has issued a statement to the Egyptian government to restrain
security forces and avoid violence.

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mahmoudimus
I'm an Egyptian National.

This has been a long time coming for Egypt and this revolution will most
likely succeed as well.

The only concerning outcome, which is to be determined, is if Egyptians are up
to the challenge of establishing a respected level of checks and balances.
Without this, all is lost.

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sp332
There's also a liveblog going on, if you can't watch video:
[http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-
east/2011/01/28/liveblog-e...](http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-
east/2011/01/28/liveblog-egypts-protests-erupt)

~~~
JonnieCache
Another good liveblog from the guardian:
[http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-
protes...](http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-protests-
live-updates)

------
Entlin
You know, the egyptian people want freedom and stability. The US is mainly
interested in stability. Which makes stability kind of an important point.

Now everybody is asking "who will be the next president". Now that's the wrong
question considering the importance of stability. ElBaradei will not grant
stability. Somebody else will not grant stability. The only way to have
stability is to have an institutionalized system of checks and balances where
not a single member can override the system and become single leader.

The lack of such a system was what allowed the rise to power of a dictator in
the first place. And without such a system it will happen again.

To really fix Egypt and bring lasting freedom - checks and balances. Because
the right question to ask is: How will they implement multiple sources with
power.

Let's see if the protesters can figure this one out.

------
sp332
Another thread <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2151895>

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chailatte
You know who else won't sleep well tonight? US leaders. Basically, the arab
youth is overthrowing the US puppets and overturning US influence in middle
east. Joe Biden has voiced open support for Egyptian president today, but
Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama has been tactful so far.

As an American, I am glad that the arab youth is escaping the imperialistic
shadow that US has casted over the middle east. As an American, I lament that
this is the end of the US dominance. As an American, I fear that the
revolution around the world will force US into a totalitarian government. As
an American, I hope that true democracy will ultimately triumph.

~~~
knowtheory
Destabilizing Egypt could destabilize the entire area.

Say what you want about how repressive Mubarak's regime is (and it certainly
is hostile to the world view i hold dear), but this is a burning house that
could easily torch the entire neighborhood.

Egypt's current regime is secular and not hostile to Israel, which are two
things we can not take for granted for whatever regime replaces Mubarak.

In so far as the entire world has stakes in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict,
the revolution in Egypt poses a variety of very real risks both in terms of
foreign policy for nations like the US, and in terms of potential for lives
lost.

~~~
chailatte
Good, let it destabilize. I can't wait until $5/gas forces US to mandate
electric cars as a policy. I can't wait until US pulls out of the middle east,
and the government cuts all sorts of debt so that we don't burden our children
with a miserable future.

And converting a government to democracy always comes with a price. I am sure
the arab youth is ready and willing for that result.

~~~
jacquesm
> Good, let it destabilize.

That's like wishing for an avalanche to start. The problem with avalanches is
that you do not know when they'll stop, potentially you're talking about
thousands or even tens of thousands of people to die. If the end result is
worth it or not can not be known at this point in time. Be careful what you
wish for, you just might get it.

~~~
chailatte
1.) The destabilization is due to youth overthrowing dictatorship in order to
establish democracy. You're saying that's a bad thing?

2.) The avalanche has already started, despite our massive meddling.

3.) US should not have a say in middle east, period. What gives us the right?

~~~
jacquesm
> 1.) The destabilization is due to youth overthrowing dictatorship in order
> to establish democracy. You're saying that's a bad thing?

Don't put words in my mouth. If democracy is the outcome then that's good.
There are many other possible outcomes.

> 2.) The avalanche has already started, despite our massive meddling.

I don't know who 'our' is but I had no part in that, not even by proxy. The
avalanche may have started, it may not have, it may be that this will burn out
or it may be that regime change in Egypt is now inevitable. If it is I hope
for it to happen quickly and in a way that will be a model for other states to
follow, if it turns out that it gets messy (or even very messy) with a bad or
worse outcome than the current situation then I would hope for the avalanche
to be restricted to Egypt. Beware of exchanging the devil that you know for
one that you haven't met yet.

> 3.) US should not have a say in middle east, period. What gives us the
> right?

I agree with that, but again, I'm not a part of 'us'.

Chances are that there will be no democracy in Egypt but that a little
sideshow called 'the Muslim brotherhood' will seize power.

I remember Persian students taking to the streets to overthrow the dictator
and to improve things. That's called "The Islamic Republic of Iran" today and
I every much doubt that people in general think that is an improvement over
the arguably very bad regime of the Shah.

------
emit_time_n3rgy
Preconditions of Revolution in the USA Today
[http://www.phibetaiota.net/2011/01/reference-
preconditions-o...](http://www.phibetaiota.net/2011/01/reference-
preconditions-of-revolution-in-the-usa-today/)

