

Is it okay for me to initially charge low rates on an Elance? - tommaxwell

Looking to make a side income doing freelance work, but compared to a lot of these people with lots of reviews it seems hard to break in. Is it okay to charge a little lower than I'd like to as well as make my proposals good to break in?
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jyz
It's a very tricky decision. When I first started freelancing, I charged a
pretty low rate (~30/hr around SF), and it did get my started (getting great
amounts of referrals etc). Unfortunately, I had to sacrifice my code quality
b/c the amount of gigs I would work on at once in order to live here, and I
noticed that the people who normally book low rate devs are the ones you
REALLY don't want to deal with. So I would say never, ever ever charge a rate
lower than you think you are worth. It may get you some gigs, but low rate
attracts crappy projects/people. The people you generally want to work
understands that high rate means better code/happier life in the long term.

~~~
saturdayplace
> I noticed that the people who normally book low rate devs are the ones you
> REALLY don't want to deal with.

This sentiment ought to be highlighted. It gets repeated often enough on HN
that some people here get sick of hearing it (search for patio11's
"pathological customers/clients"). But there are always people who _haven't_
encountered this idea, so I think it bears repeating: People looking for a
basement bargain deal bring all kinds of other expectations that will
_markedly_ impact your patience/time. This has the effect of eating up _any_
value you may have gotten out of charging a low rate to begin with.

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viame
Some personal thoughts and opinions here:

People that go on Elance to find workers, well, they get what they pay for. I
am sure that there are some great freelancers out there but you are far better
to find yourself local clients, charge more, and get referrals.

Really, try face to face business first. More and more people are realizing
that talking to India at 4am is pain in the ass. Also, a lot of people think
that they can go on Elance and hire a guy that is charging 14 goats, and they
expect this to be done as if they were paying him 100 goats.

However, face to face business will really depending on how you present
yourself, your age and if you can sell.

All these websites: Elance, 99 designs, etc etc are making money for their co-
founders (hopefully), and very little for freelancers. Getting 40 logos for
299 dollars? 40 people working for 299 and 1 of them is getting paid.

Don't sell yourself low.

PS. I deal with small businesses that tried these things, even larger
companies that make millions of goats / year. And they tell me these stories
after they hire me. I laugh! :)

~~~
tommaxwell
I'm about to start attending meetups and other events, so with some networking
and meeting new people that may help me out.

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hhandoko
I've actually just started doing this as well, so I can relate. Rather than
focusing on offering the cheapest rate, make sure that your proposal is rock
solid.

Be picky in the jobs you choose, but once you decide to put your bid in,
invest time to understand what the client wants and make sure your proposal
reflects that. It's not always easy, because sometimes there's only very
limited information. Just treat every bid like a job interview.

It's also perfectly OK and normal to charge a little lower at first, until you
collect feedback and build yourself a good reputation. But make sure you set
the right expectation. I always put my normal rate in the proposal, but
reflect a discount where necessary to make sure that I remain competitive with
the other bidders.

And last, make sure you deliver what you promise :)

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necrodome
This is my 3rd year on Elance as a fullstack developer with a main focus on
backend, and last year I made around 80k. In the beginning, it was very hard
to compete with established users and 10$/h developers. In Elance, having a
track a record with high ratings is pretty important, so my first few jobs
were some easy scripts that were guaranteed to be 5 stars (I made sure on the
proposal that I don't care much about the price but that I need a good review)

After establishing a bit of credit, you should be picky on the projects you
choose and make sure that you are not throwing a generic proposal. Treat each
one uniquely. Have a resume/portfolio ready. Ask questions about the project
and more importantly, give suggestions about pain points.

~~~
lifeisstillgood
Fascinating - I have a dozen questions for you ! I will stick to three, but
really desperate for high quality info on elance and the like

1\. Roughly how many jobs a year do you take on?

2\. What's the median price - and roughly how long does it take you to do (ie
what's your daily rate?)

3\. Are the projects / buyers high or low quality (I get the impression it's a
lot of unrealistic projects or simple projects at 10dollars total

I assume you live in the Isle of Man ? This does not strike me as Vietnam-
cheap-lifestyle so I am surprised to say least - is that 80k USD

(for non UK folks, Isle of Man is an island just off UK mainland near
Scotland. It's basically same as living in UK For lifestyle purposes but
technically it's its own independant region)

~~~
necrodome
Ah, it's just happened to be my domain, I don't live in Isle of Man.

Yes, it is 80k USD. My rate usually revolves between 50/75$ hour, but I
generally try to charge by week. Last year, I think i worked on 3-4 relatively
full-size projects including:

\- Backend for an iphone app \- Backend/web frontend for a continuous event
processor, a commercial offering in par with <http://riemann.io/> \-
Backend/web app for a job board in restaurant industry

It is actually pretty easy to filter out low quality buyers: They will mass
advertise the project for nickels and pennies. They will always try to
negotiate the rate along the way. They won't answer your questions about the
project details or simply have no clue.

~~~
lifeisstillgood
What is the balance between filtering out and actual paid work? Most "normal"
consultants expand to a point where full time bizdev is needed - what do you
see as the equivalent here? Would you and two or three others with good
reputations pay someone to filter elance for you?

What about expanding into more traditional bizdev?

Have you started to see word of mouth recommendations and repeat business, or
is everything start-from-scratch?

I must say I am surprised - I have only ever browsed elance and the jobs you
describe seem like hens teeth.

Are you afraid of the work not being there (ie exists really just not on
elance) or is there a great deal of good quality work if you can find it?

Might have to sign up and see of course :-)

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Yessir
What kind(s) of people use Elance? Is the Bay Area that devoid of real jobs
that someone would have to go on Elance to cobble together some projects for
income? Or do most people use it to supplement their income? Or is it mainly
for students with little experience who just want to build portfolios and make
a little on the side? (Nothing wrong with any of these, I was just wondering.)
Or is it people with bad reputations that can't get jobs otherwise. (That's
probably the bad ones.)

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johnjlocke
The sooner you can you can ditch eLance, the better. Spending all your time
writing well-thought-out proposals for people who simply want the cheap price
is rather disheartening. You're better off finding clients in your local area.
Go to meet ups, meet other devs, meet people within your own community. You'll
have a much higher return.

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jolenzy
Yes, you should underbid in the beginning, until you get a couple of jobs and
good ratings.

I started a month ago, and was the hardest to get the first job. After that
one, and good review from client, jobs started to come up more often.

So, keep trying, underbid in the beginning, and don't give up.

~~~
tommaxwell
Thanks for the advice. Trying to get my first gig. :)

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orangethirty
You can try building a good portfolio on your own site, and then linking to it
from Elance. Might allow you to get better clients. Though from experience,
those type of sites are filled with the kind of clients you dont want.

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Ralz
I'm also interested in this because the rates that some people post seem way
too low. I've seen people post $14/hour or $1200 to create a fully featured
youtube clone.

