
South Korea’s dystopian nightmare - MessengerGod
https://medium.com/@jeremybernier/south-koreas-dystopian-nightmare-53786a641b8e
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jack6e
Interesting observations on the sad state of Korean society, but the UBI hook
turns it into a poor piece. There is nothing unique or novel about suggesting
communism as an "antidote" for capitalism. The author suggests the evils of
Korean society are due to capitalism being carried to its logical extremes,
without realizing that UBI is fundamentally a socialist idea, which if carried
to _its_ logical extremes, simply results in the same evils - having swapped
the government for the marketplace.

> _Universal Basic Income (UBI) is one policy proposal that would eliminate
> the dependence of people on jobs..._

...and replace it with a dependence on the government.

Rather than receiving an education for "a humiliating life of poverty,
unrespected work, parental dependence, and limited dating options," one could
receive a UBI check for a humiliating life of poverty, no work, parental
dependence, and limited dating options.

> _Rather than an outdated industrial-education complex that breeds overly
> passive and obedient workers..._

...Korea would have an outdated industrial-political complex that breeds
overly passive and obedient workers.

> _All the time wasted showing facetime for one’s boss and all the
> commoditized companies endlessly competing against each other in zero-sum
> games could become..._

...time wasted showing facetime for one's party bosses and state-capitalized
companies endlessly competing against each other in zero-sum games for
government favor.

~~~
RealityNow
You're making the (common) mistake of conflating socialism with a strong
state. Socialism does not in any way imply a strong government (see
libertarian socialism).

UBI might be "socialist" in the sense that it is a redistribution of wealth,
but it would still be within a capitalist system. Free markets, private
property ownership, and employment would still exist. The difference now would
be that working for an employer and being a wage slave would become an option,
rather than something you need to do to not be in poverty.

Dependence on government is not ideal, but neither is their system. Most
critics of UBI fail to offer superior alternatives.

~~~
jsnk
> UBI might be "socialist" in the sense that it is a redistribution of wealth,
> but it would still be within a capitalist system. Free markets, private
> property ownership, and employment would still exist.

Try replacing UBI with any of these words below and see how comical this
sounds.

\- Price control

\- Welfare state

\- High taxation

\- Nationalization of private industries

\- Forfeiture of property

~~~
ue_
Price controls aren't part of Socialism. The welfare state isn't part of
Socialism. High taxation isn't part of Socialism. Temporary nationalisation of
private industry _may_ be a part of Socialism. Forfeiture of private property
(in the sense Proudhon and by extension Marx take it to be) _is_ part of
Socialism.

Unless you were saying something else which I have failed to understand. But
UBI most certainly is not part of Socialist policy. It is social democratic
policy (and this is not to be confused with democratic Socialist policy!)

------
contingencies
_everything wrong about free market capitalism is amplified to its logical
extreme._

After visiting Samsung HQ for work back in 2009, I usually describe Korea as
_the worst aspects of Confucianism and capitalism combined._

------
jsnk
I am rather frustrated with this kind of analysis that makes no effort to
think about the "unseen" consequences as Bastiat puts it. Where is the money
for UBI going to come from? Will this make South Korean economy less
competitive? How does South Korean economy going to compete against giants
like China and Japan, and its smaller but nimble Taiwan?

The fact is South Korea is stronger, richer, more humane than it has ever been
in its long history, and we know why this happened. Don't ruin this with UBI.

~~~
RealityNow
> Will this make South Korean economy less competitive?

Your comment almost reads like satire. The whole point of the article was to
show the dystopian insanity of what a society hell-bent on competition at all
costs looks like. High school kids in school 14 hours/day competing against
each other for limited slots at top schools, and then competing against each
other for limited slots at companies where they work 14 hours/day for low
wages. Life satisfaction ranked among the worst and suicide rates the highest
in the world. Blatant discrimination on physical attractiveness (hence highest
rates of plastic surgery) and parental occupations is icing on the cake.

And you're concerned that addressing these issues might make the economy less
competitive? That mindset is exactly the problem this article is trying to
highlight.

We completely neglect happiness, and maybe we're all competing for the wrong
things.

Open to alternative solutions than UBI, but I don't see anything else that's
going to have a significant impact on fixing South Korea's situation.

~~~
jsnk
Social ills exist because we live in a real world where things are not
perfect. South Korea is far from perfect but I can speak confidently when I
say, things are better than ever in thousands of years of Korean history.

Not sure if your background is Korean or not, but Koreans don't need to look
very far to see how amazing things have gotten in South Korea. People used to
literally starve to death in South Korea in less than a couple of decades ago.
There was a time, when North Korea was the wealthier part of Korea and North
Korea was always doing terribly. I pray that Koreans never become amnesiac to
his history and never give into temptations of UBI.

~~~
peterwwillis
According to Korean history, you actually had a millennia of much more
peaceful time (along with relatively high literacy rates) back in the day.
Lately your country has been embroiled in war, military coups, and political
strife, with a society so hell-bent on improving itself that people are
killing themselves more than almost anywhere else in the world.

You're right, people aren't starving to death. But suicide is a form of
desperation that's on par with starving to death, if not worse. I pray that
South Koreans realize they don't have to go along with what's expected of
them.

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codedokode
I don't see how UBI would help? A person living on UBI will probably have the
lowest social rank.

The problem probably is a lack of good job positions and a surplus of working
force.

~~~
tooltalk
couldn't agree more. The author doesn't seem to understand the root cause or
the societal/economic force driving such competitiveness and prescribes a
solution that only misguided outsiders would find fit.

Today's problem in Korea isn't about the kind of poverty that older Koreans
lived through after the Korean civil war (1960's-1970's) -- the country is way
beyond that point now. Those who study 14-16 hrs day to get into top
universities aren't looking for minimum wage jobs at fast food chains.

~~~
RealityNow
> Those who study 14-16 hrs day to get into top universities aren't looking
> for minimum wage jobs at fast food chains.

Well obviously. They study 14-16 hours/day so that they don't have to be
minimum wage workers at fast food chains, because that's the only option
they'll have if they go to a "shit" school.

With a UBI, the bottom rung will no longer have to work those humiliating
minimum wage jobs. They'll have the freedom to pursue their own interests,
whether that be entrepreneurship, the arts, etc. Those corporate wage slaves
working 14 hours/day will probably work less, maybe even only part-time. Even
if nothing changes, at least the option to walk away without having to stress
about money will be there.

That being said, UBI isn't the solution to all of society's problems. I just
think its the most urgent policy decision that needs to be implemented due to
its simplicity and massive implications.

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chunsj
I am not sure on the only solution is UBI however it would be better than
current status quo. At least the author knows the exact status of South
Korean.

