
US blacklists 17 firms from applying H1-B - artsandsci
http://gulte.com/movienews/61927/US-blacklists-17-firms-from-applying-H1-B
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justboxing
This does nothing. The 'little guys' have gotten scape-goated.

I don't see Infosys, CapGemini, TCS (Tata Consultancy Services), Cognizant,
Tech Mahindra or for that matter any of the Top 10 H1B Visa Abusers [1] in
this List.

Business as Usual.

It's strikingly similar to the list of countries in the Trump's Muslim Ban
wherein countries that sponsored terrorism, but that in which he had business
interests in ,were not listed, incl. Saudi Arabia ( 15 of the 19 911 hijackers
were Saudi Citizens)

EDIT: Addressing @praneshp's question. Microsoft might be a red herring, but
the rest, esp. the Indian Companies like TCS, Infosys, Congnizant are also the
TOP 10 Abusers of H1B Visa. Speaking from personal experience here. I've
written at length about this on Quora, so don't want to re-hash it. You can
read it here => [https://www.quora.com/Being-on-H1B-is-it-worth-joining-
TCS-i...](https://www.quora.com/Being-on-H1B-is-it-worth-joining-TCS-in-the-
US-1/answer/Shiva-Kumar-1902?srid=C5p)

Not only do these Indian Companies abuse the H1B Visa program, but they also
abuse and underpay the workers they bring on the H1B Program. I've written
about this also in my Quora answer linked above.

[1] Source:
[https://sc.cnbcfm.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/files/...](https://sc.cnbcfm.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/files/2017/04/18/H-1BVisas-01_0.png)

~~~
praneshp
Asking because I have no clue: You just linked to the top-10 H1B holders, not
abusers, no? I see Microsoft on that list, and find it difficult to believe
they are abusers.

From what I know from extended family, firms like the ones in the link do
things like faking a job/resume, etc. Do the large Indian firms do that as
well, in addition to flooding the lottery pool?

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bactrian
Microsoft hires thousands of H1B workers for generic roles like project
manager and software developer.

Do you really think there aren’t Americans that could fill those roles? Of
course there are but it would cost more. A true shortage would not affect
Microsoft at all. They have as much money as anyone.

This is a dirty secret of tech that you can’t discuss without being labeled
racist or xenophobic no matter how untrue that is.

~~~
ActsJuvenile
I have hired a few H1-Bs, and here is how the first step goes:

Before you file for a H1-B visa with USCIS, employer needs to get Department
of Labor (DOL) certification. Employers have to advertise the job in local
media for 30 days. Jobs have to offer median salary for the given skill based
on DOL numbers (Roughly $104K per year).

All resumes received, and interview notes must be included in DOL application
for labor certification. If a qualified American applied for the job, DOL
rejects the certification request.

I would love to hear where you see a material flaw in this process. To me it
signifies there is a real talent shortage.

~~~
raincom
Here is the flaw, material or otherwise: (a) companies post jobs with
descriptions that filter out all but the candidate they are filing for DOL
certification. Next time, look at your company postings with exacting
requirements: 3 yrs of experience in the stack A, 5 years in the language X, 6
years in Y, etc. That's how the game is played. (b) During green card
processing, I have seen companies setting up fake interviews only to
disqualify whoever comes for the interview. I was a victim of that.

~~~
ActsJuvenile
I have seen pretty much every company be guilty of (a), so it is hard to
regulate it away.

(b) seems downright malicious and/or stupid. Why conduct fake interviews if
employer is going to pay the same amount? Especially when you future foreign
worker won't be able to work for you till next October at the earliest?

~~~
raincom
(b) is to file I-140 for those who have been already on H1B. If I were an
employer, and if I wanna apply for I-140 for one of my employees who is on
H1B, I need to do that.

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spydum
The actual source list:
[https://www.dol.gov/whd/immigration/H1BDebarment.htm](https://www.dol.gov/whd/immigration/H1BDebarment.htm)

"The Wage and Hour Division maintains the list below of willful violator
employers under the H-1B program."

One really odd stand out on the list... Popeyes chicken?!?

Yummi Enterprises, Inc. d/b/a Popeye’s Louisiana Kitchen 1310 El Camino Real
San Bruno, CA 94066

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dylanpyle
I'd guess this is a single franchise owner abusing H-1b petitions, not
Popeye's corporate.

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john_moscow
Strange move given that all you could do to stop the current abuse is to start
prioritizing the applications by salary rather than picking them randomly
until the cap is reached.

~~~
adrianbg
That would penalize startups, giving only large companies access to the
foreign labour pool. It's rare that a problem like this has a simple solution.

~~~
spinlock
Startups do not use H1B workers. A startup is actually hiring someone for a
role and they can't take the risk that their guy will lose the lottery. Plus,
the application is just beyond what most startups are going to have the time
to do.

~~~
cardine
That is not even remotely true. Anyone who can afford a software developer can
afford an immigration attorney to handle applying for an H1B.

Plus it usually takes 2-3 years to know if someone isn't going to get the H1B
lottery during their OPT which is a longer time horizon than most startups are
concerned with anyways.

I think most startups simply hire who they view as the most qualified person
regardless of immigration status.

Source: Have a startup that hires software developers.

~~~
praneshp
> That is not even remotely true. Anyone who can afford a software developer
> can afford an immigration attorney to handle applying for an H1B.

The problem with using sweeping statements like "anyone who can..." is that
one example is enough to disprove you. There'll be Who's Hiring thread in a
couple of days, watch how many young startups say no new H1Bs on that.

Your OPT case is only true when hiring a student on F1

~~~
cardine
> The problem with using sweeping statements like "anyone who can..." is that
> one example is enough to disprove you. There'll be Who's Hiring thread in a
> couple of days, watch how many young startups say no new H1Bs on that.

We don't have to wait - we can look at the one from last month:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15384262](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15384262)

I did a Ctrl+F and nothing came up for "H1B" and the only thing that came up
for "citizen" was a job posting for the US government itself.

~~~
praneshp
Did you keep clicking on see more and get the entire page? Give me an hour or
so, I'll find you a few links when I'm off the Caltrain.

Edit: I had to get to page3, but:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15391862](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15391862)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15386201](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15386201)

(Though I believe the second one is some team specific thing, I know that at
least AWS sponsor H1Bs for fresh grads).

Then on p5:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15384311](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15384311)

(I was confident about this because I was job hunting about a year ago, and
was exclusively looking at companies under 50 people. Most of them were fine
with H1B transfer, but explicitly said no new applications.)

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nashashmi
Wouldn't it been better for there to have been a silent blacklist? Won't these
companies just rename themselves now to get around this restriction?

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the_rock_says
I don't see how by only blocking firms will help clean this H1B abuse. The H1B
visa abusers and spammers should be screened out before the applications are
put into the lottery. Having this process in place, companies like Infosys,
TCS etc. can't misuse it as all the 'real' and 'well-deserved' applications
are in lottery.

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mc32
What would keep these affected companies from creating new companies to engage
in the same behavior?

~~~
partycoder
Or outsource to a company that does the visas for them.

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partycoder
Surprised to not see Infosys on this list.

Business as usual for H-1B cheaters.

