

YouTube Blocks Game Videos, Industry Offers Help - danso
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/12/11/youtube-blocks-game-videos-industry-offers-help/

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schwap
Wow, managing to piss off _both_ ends of the issue (rights holders and video
creators) is pretty impressive on YouTube's part.

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Ygg2
How did they manage that? Note: RPS is down atm.

~~~
snogglethorpe
Because in this particular case, the producers (game developers) are actually
pretty much OK with people using their "content" in Youtube videos, and
indeed, probably benefit from it.

Unfortunately the Youtube system is structured mainly to handle the opposite
case, where the producers are insane jealous spawns of evil who will scream
shrilly at the top of their lungs at even the merest _hint_ of faint
resemblance (if you look with your eyes blurred while drunk) between a video
and their "content."

So basically Youtube's automatic system is being over-eager in tagging a bunch
of stuff as potential copyright violations, when it's _probably_ OK to not do
so for much of it....

As somebody else said, there's likely a technical solution to this by
improving the ability to whitelist content from consenting producers.

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werid
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt1ubSVMwaw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt1ubSVMwaw)

In this video, they go in-depth about the different youtube issues going on at
the moment, both the recent content-ID massacre, and the new status for
network/partners that's coming.

Worth spending time on if you are at all interested in these issues.
(Description has shortcuts to the different parts discussed as well, but I
recommend watching the entire thing.)

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Daishiman
I don't understand, can video game companies really claim copyright over
gameplay videos? Or is this just a Youtube-specific thing?

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leeskye
Publishers who own the IP to titles can claim copyright to the gameplays.
Since it is basically free promotion for their games, it's against their best
interest. Hence, you see them offering their blessing and support to
YouTubers.

~~~
uchi
The problem is that a lot of videos are being taken down because of copyright
claims on press materials and game footage from trailers, not gameplays. This
material is classified under fair use.

They're also attempting to claim copyright on game reviews. Which in short,
puts reviewers in a bad position where someone is trying to monetize their
opinion and are easily silenced if that opinion is unpopular.

For reviewers its grossly unfair for publishers to make money off their
reviews, because while they will reference their game, the opinions expressed
are entirely the reviewer's, and writing a critique is certainly nothing at
all like showing a dry gameplay video with no commentary or editing.

~~~
chii
It's not only grossly unfair to reviewers, but that copyright's fair use
clauses specifically allows for fair use in critiques! These copyright claims
are bogus.

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thenomad
And this sort of crap is why I've just decided to make my most major video
release in 5 years Vimeo-centric, not YouTube. *

I'm about to release a significant Machinima movie - significant in that it's
doing a bunch of things that haven't been done before. (I'm the guy who came
up with the term "Machinima" originally.) I've been strongly considering
putting it on YT, but the extreme lack of customer support and the automated,
often error-prone takedown systems mean that it really doesn't seem like a
great platform for anything important.

This could actually become a serious problem for YouTube. They've got some
real competitors in the video space, notably Vimeo but also Blip and others.
If working with YouTube starts to become overly risky or onerous for creators,
the others could start to catch up fast.

* _Also, to be fair, I 'm going for Vimeo because they support 2.35:1 aspect ratio video. But that's not the most major reason._

~~~
Kronopath
From what I've heard, Vimeo is even worse, disallowing all video game content
unless it's a game you developed yourself:
[http://blog.wolfire.com/2009/01/vimeowned/](http://blog.wolfire.com/2009/01/vimeowned/)

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booop
Is Google deliberately trying to kill off Youtube?

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thetinguy
cached version:
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/12/11/youtube-
blocks-game-videos-industry-offers-help/)

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archgoon
I'm pretty sure that Twitch will happily fill the gap here.

~~~
simfoo
Not until Twitch manages to fix their downlink connection problems. I haven't
been able to watch a single HD cast without major lags and stuttering in
months even though I'm on a very fast connection (granted, not by a major
provider so no direct peering).

Twitch has promised to build new data centers here in Europe but I have only
noticed it becoming worse. I'm not the only one too, I'm part of the Team
Fortress 2 competitive community and get to talk to a lot of other Twitch
viewers. Also, don't get me started on VODs on Twitch, they're even worse.

~~~
petriw
While VODs may start slow I find the playback much more reliable than streams
here in Europe.

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username223
It's just standard "we (Google) have more money and lawyers than you do"
stuff. Nothing to see here.

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ChrisNorstrom
What stands out most about this issue is the open-mindedness of the Video
Games Industry. The fact that they've stood up for someone's ability to not
only record their gameplay, but on top of that, make money from it just shows
how understanding they are (unlike neighboring industries that take down
amateur remixes from Soundcloud and YouTube).

They're one of the few industries that generally:

● Don't Sue Pirates

● Don't claim copyright infringement on uploaded video game soundtracks to
YouTube or gh.ffshrine.org (except Square Enix because their Final Fantasy OST
still sells big)

● Don't send DMCA notices to people who remix their content (make mods)

● Allow unofficial communities to sprout up using their IP's name in the
domain name url

I'd say they're going above and beyond to support fair use & infringement in
order to please customers, grow communities, and grow their fan base through
crowdsourced content infringement. Genius I'd say.

~~~
ekianjo
_Don 't claim copyright infringement on uploaded video game soundtracks to
YouTube (except Square Enix because their Final Fantasy OST still sells big)_

Because most video game music is crap, really. Of course, there are
exceptions, but nothing that would really sell anyway if they were marketing
it.

 _Don 't send DMCA notices to people who remix their content (make mods)_

Huh... you haven't heard about Nintendo I guess? They just closed the site of
someone who made a Mario clone (a 20+ years old game) in the browser, and they
also sued Great Giana Sisters in the 80s because it was too similar to Mario.

 _Allow unofficial communities to sprout up using their IP 's name in the
domain name url_

I can't remember which site right now, but I clearly remember Sony or other
big players making it difficult to use some of their brands as domain names.

It's clearly not as nice an industry as you seem to be considering it.

~~~
ChrisNorstrom
1) Are you really going to make a hot-air blanket statement like "Most video
game music is crap"? You do realize that even mid-budget games like Resident
Evil 5 & Remember Me (both with really good soundtracks) record using
Hollywood sized orchestras.

2) A "CLONE" of a game is different. Especially when you clone an iconic game
that Nintendo still sells.

It's clearly not as evil an industry as you seem to be considering it.

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ekianjo
1) it's not because you record with an orchestra that it's not crap, sorry.
Music is not just about how much money you throw at it, if there's no art in
it, it's just crap. And when I say "there's exceptions" I dont know how you
can say i make a blanket statement.

2) Sorry, but a 20+ year old game should be in the public domain, period. Why
do we apply copyrights which are longer than what we apply on drugs? Sorry but
I consider that especially Evil, in the same way that Mickey Mouse is still
not in public domain even though it's been 75 years+ since its first
appearance.

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Morgawr
>And when I say "there's exceptions" I dont know how you can say i make a
blanket statement.

Honestly, calling most videogame music crap is a bit ignorant imo (even though
you mention "exceptions"). A lot of videogames, even minor ones and some
indies, have amazing music and OST. This is because sound is one of the most
important aspects of game development, even though most people don't really
understand that.

It is up there, style-wise, with graphics and gameplay. A good OST can make or
break a game and it's surprising how unnoticed this goes until you find a game
with actual crap/out of place music, and then you notice.

I often listen to several game soundtracks and I own a few albums just of pure
videogame music, there is a huge market from fans (and even non-fans) directly
buying music CDs of videogame OSTs. Plus they are often sold with collector's
editions and similar.

Let's give a few examples of games with great music (great, not just "good",
for most of them are at least good and far from "crap"): Final Fantasy, Halo,
Monkey Island, Zelda, Civilization, Silent Hill (by far my favorite),
Castlevania, Portal, The Elders Scrolls, Metal Gear...

I could go on, but you get the point[1]. As a musician I can say for sure that
game soundtracks are among the most entertaining and fun to play, there's a
lot of people on youtube recording covers and re-arrangements of famous game
OSTs.

Really, claiming that "most videogame music is crap" is just being ignorant.

[1] [http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/nine-
legitimately-a...](http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/nine-legitimately-
awesome-video-game-soundtracks-20131004)

~~~
ekianjo
> Really, claiming that "most videogame music is crap" is just being ignorant.

It just means I have probably higher standards than you have when it comes to
appreciating music. I've been playing video games for 30 years+, so I wouldn't
consider myself ignorant, I just find most video games music very dull and
uninspiring.

~~~
Morgawr
Yes, definitely dull and uninspiring /sarcasm
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_music](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_music)

But yeah, to each their own I guess. I'm just a bit riled up because calling
it "crap" is a very offensive and ignorant statement. I've seen much much
worse dull and uninspiring "crap" being sold commercially as pop music, and
that's a huge industry nowadays.

Anyhow to lighten up the mood, here, have some great music that might
(hopefully) make you change idea.
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlNhwnssA8g](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlNhwnssA8g)
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88_PGUa69aE](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88_PGUa69aE)
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4BP42FzKRI](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4BP42FzKRI)
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LB7LZZGpkw](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LB7LZZGpkw)
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMhcyzQ7mKw](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMhcyzQ7mKw)
(I could go on for hours, better not spam the thread though)

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SamReidHughes
What's ignorant is your belief that the videos you've linked would change the
parent's mind. It's all competent derivative tripe or sub-competent derivative
tripe.

It's not offensive to call crap music crap. You should stop trying to be
offended at things and try growing up and accepting that the universe is full
of people with opinions you don't like.

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smtddr
_> >If you’re dependent on YouTube for making money from video content, that’s
disastrous, as even a single strike against your YouTube account can limit the
account’s functionality within the site and impact anything from the length of
videos you’re able to upload to your ability to monetise those videos with
advertising._

Always be very careful when your business depends on the free(AFAIK, uploading
to youtube is free) services & regulations of some other company. I can't help
but think of the stories on Facebook-platform/API dependency. That said, I
still think it's bad how Google isn't a bit more careful when considering
that, intentional or not, they now hold several people's livelihood in their
hands. Semi-arbitrarily dropping sites' page-rank, marking sites as phishing
attempts or messing with youtube-accounts' abilities to continue their
business by some automation-script is kinda harsh. It's kinda like a guilty-
until-proven-innocent thing where you just wake up one day and find your
youtube-channel crippled. You're losing money while trying to contact Google
and get everything straightened out. The fact that Google isn't exactly known
for amazing customer service adds to the problem. I certainly don't expect
Google to manually check all that content, but how about instead of immediate
penalty... they send an email with a warning that action will be taken in 20
business days if alleged-offending content isn't removed. At least give the
uploaders a chance to fix the issue or plan for an "outage" of sorts. Perhaps
even for websites & youtube channels that are well known high-traffic &
monetizing, Google makes sure to white-list them so they can never be auto-
penalized without a human confirming. Instead, it just triggers an alert to
all parties involved so people can look at it.

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A_Non_eMouse
Except that The DMCA requires immediate removal upon complaint. Granted, the
automated youtube-internal identification isn't exactly subject to that, but
it was created in response to a lawsuit from the media companies about how
hard it was for them to find and report infringing content.

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noct
At least the DMCA requires the submitter swear under penalty of perjury that
the notice is accurate. The current YouTube system has no penalty for false
claims.

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TazeTSchnitzel
I agree with this guy's thoughts on it:

[http://youtube.com/watch?v=2e5pheJJvno](http://youtube.com/watch?v=2e5pheJJvno)

It's definitely not fair use to film the gameplay of the entire game, just add
commentary, and then make money off it.

That being said, if the publishers give permission, it's fine.

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bcRIPster
Actually, it is fair use. It's a derivative work. This is no different than
taking a car and doing a video showing everything about it along with a
running commentary.

Anyways, what's happening is these guys are getting nailed for using
unlicensed music as part of their videos. That's a copyright infringement
unless it has been paid for YouTube distribution.

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tshadwell
Why is it that video games are not filmable? I cannot imagine Grand Illusions'
([https://www.youtube.com/user/henders007](https://www.youtube.com/user/henders007))
videos being flagged for not owning the copyright for the toys he does "let's
plays" of.

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yeukhon
As a matter of fact, I would spend some of my lunch time just watching game
play when no other videos interest me.

