
Cafe opens in Tokyo staffed by robots controlled by paralyzed people - mpweiher
https://soranews24.com/2018/11/29/cafe-opens-in-tokyo-staffed-by-robots-controlled-by-paralyzed-people/
======
blhack
There is a charity that my family supports that works with developmentally
disabled people. One of the interesting things I learned when I attended one
of their fundraisers was that part of their mission was finding jobs that
developmentally disabled people would excel at due to their disability.

For instance: the guy who takes the ticket at the theaters in my city
(Phoenix) is often a DD person. I thought this was odd, until I made the
connection that this is literally a partnership between that company an the
charity I'm talking about.

Most punk kids will get bored at this job, be snarky, not want to do it, etc.
But some people with certtain DDs actually really enjoy it. They get to talk
to people, they feel useful instead of feeling like a burden, they get a
paycheck, etc. And for the company (harkins theaters) they get a happy,
competent employee that enjoys their job.

It's a win win. And it's a perfect example of embracing the concept of
"differently abled" instead of disabled. Made me really happy to learn that.

~~~
Balgair
I once interviewed with a company in NC that only employed blind people (to
manufacture reading glasses, of all things!). NC has a provision for sub-
minimum wage payments for those with disabilities [0]. This is to encourage
employers to hire those with disabilities and give them at least some form of
a wage. Per the interviewing process, it really seemed to help a lot of
disabled people have a life. Their jobs got them out of the house/care
facility, interacting with other people, and gave them a purpose in
life(however mundane). Though I declined the job, it was an incredible company
and view into the day to day lives of disabled citizens and their struggles.
More states should consider such provisions to see if they may work for their
people.

[0] [https://www.employmentlawhandbook.com/wage-and-hour-
laws/sta...](https://www.employmentlawhandbook.com/wage-and-hour-laws/state-
wage-and-hour-laws/north-carolina/minimum-wage/#5)

~~~
raverbashing
Would you happen to know in which part of the manufacturing process they
worked?

~~~
Balgair
Per the interview, the blind employees assembled and packaged the glasses.
There was supervision from sighted employees, but most of the assembly was via
the blind.

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alias_neo
This is fantastic. Although I'm currently unable to watch the videos, I'm
hoping that the people controlling the robots have various forms of feedback
so that the interactions can give them some much needed human contact.

If they do open a permanent cafe of this type I'll be sure to visit next time
I'm in the area.

~~~
chrischen
They appear to have a video monitor with a camera feed from the robot, but I
can’t figure out how they actually control the robot and how responsive it is.

~~~
pmx
The example i saw had a woman who had control of her eyes but nothing else.
She had a computer monitor with eye tracking software installed. She could
look at controls on the screen in order to command the robot. This was all
overlayed on a live video feed from the robot. I'm assuming she also had sound
since people were telling the robot verbally what their order was.

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matt_morgan
I always thought this is how we should clean our houses (when we pay other
people to clean our houses). Robovacs are great for smoothish floors, but most
other cleaning tasks are too complicated for autonomous robots. With a good
humanoid robot controlled by someone living anywhere, it would be easier.

~~~
donkeyd
I don't really understand why, but the idea of somebody sitting behind a
computer somewhere, controlling my vacuum is just really weird and unsettling.
I also understand that this could help handicapped people or people in less
fortunate countries earn a decent wage, but then again, it feels odd. Also,
paying for a vacuum and then paying a fee to the person using it feels
weird... Even though hiring a cleaning lady is pretty much the same thing.

Thanks for this, now I'll be thinking about this all day. And I'll probably
have intense discussions with people about the ethics and their feelings
toward this idea at parties... Because I know I'll bring it up.

~~~
dpau
I feel the same unease. In China, blind people are often given jobs as piano
tuners and masseuses. In a country with few resources and opportunities for
disabled people, I first viewed these types of jobs positively. However,
people can be pressured or even forced into taking on these careers in order
to be less of a burden on their families.

~~~
whatshisface
> _However, people can be pressured or even forced into taking on these
> careers in order to be less of a burden on their families._

You could argue that able-bodied people are also pressured or even forced to
take on careers. What fraction of piano tuners, sighted or not, could quit
their jobs and live without being a burden to their families?

~~~
stuntkite
I frequently muse about how I was coerced into a 20 year "career" in software.
I liked computers, but this is not what I liked. I've refound that balance and
it's going well, but at no way do I feel like there was ever another road. I
tried tons of things. To quote a popular cartoon, "It's like slavery with
extra steps!"

~~~
rifung
This sounds pretty common sadly. People need to make money so they get a job.
At some point they get so into whatever they're doing it's difficult to
switch.

Most people don't like their jobs. Most people tolerate it and appreciate it
though because for most people having a job is a lot better than not having a
job. However I can't say I really know anyone who would continue doing their
job if they weren't paid to do it.

~~~
Retric
One issue is jobs are generally all or nothing. An equivalent pay cut for an
extra 4 weeks off a year is appealing. But, most companies hate the idea of
someone working 10 months a year vs 11 months a year.

~~~
taneq
Well, all the simple jobs that you can drop into and out of like that are
being automated, so competition for the remaining jobs is fierce and
accordingly pay and conditions are terrible. The remaining jobs are all, to
some degree, knowledge jobs, and there are significant sunk costs in bringing
each employee up to speed. Would you rather spend $50-$100k (minimum) to train
one full time employee, or $100-200k to train two part-time employees to cover
that same role?

~~~
Retric
I can’t think of any company that pays for that kind of training. Due to
frequent job hopping company specific on boarding costs are generally kept
fairly low.

More widely people truly work alone, companies need redundancy in the case of
illness, vaction, or other such matters. Further, their is a benifit to be
able to staff a team with a non integer number of people without splitting
focus across multiple projects.

~~~
taneq
I'm not talking about formal training, I'm just talking about the fact that
when you take on an employee in a knowledge job, it's usually quite some time
before they start contributing positively, let alone reach their potential. In
software, generally it seems to be around 6 months before a new player is a
full member of the team, and the first 3 months of that they're a net negative
because they're taking up more team time asking questions than they're saving
by doing work.

~~~
Retric
3 months at say -10% productivity and 3 months at say 50% productivity does
not add up to 100+k for most employees.

On top of that, new people really should be a net gain by week 3-4. It’s not
about what they get done but the time they save other people. Inexperienced
people may take longer to get up to speed, but they also cost less.

------
canada_dry
I imagine this could work with other jobs where disabled humans could augment
a robot/drone e.g. security guard, house sitting.

But - of course - the human interaction component is probably the most
fulfilling for the operator.

~~~
thinkingemote
Let's replace self driving cars with remotely controlled chauffeurs.

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jbhatab
Most positive and inspired startup concept I've seen in a while. Serious props
to the founders for pushing boundaries with this.

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cfqycwz
I don't think this is just semantics—isn't this actually a cafe staffed by
paralyzed people, who control robots? This headline is bit like saying a
warehouse is staffed by forklifts, controlled by operators.

~~~
jplayer01
This is about people being able to do the job from home. So no, this isn't the
same thing.

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sigfubar
Straight out of the John Scalzi novel! Our science fiction writers need to
adjust to the quickening pace at which their ideas are turned into reality.

~~~
sempron64
For those wondering which novel: John Scalzi's Lock In. I enjoyed it, though I
generally find his work hit-and-miss. It' s a detective story set in the near
future where a significant percentage of the population is paralyzed due to a
pandemic. The paralyzed operate in society by using android avatars.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_In](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_In)

~~~
GrifMD
I enjoyed the book and the premise is interesting, but there was just
something missing that made it truly good. (I know this is the worst book
report ever)

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cjdell
As well intentioned as this may be, I get the feeling this might be the first
step to a world like the one depicted in the movie "Surrogates".

~~~
AlanSE
The concept of that movie was really insightful, but the trailer looked kind
of terrible. Was there any Ghost In The Shell kind of deep philosophy, or was
it just a Hollywood excuse to blow things up and do completely unrealistic
action scenes?

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ianai
I wish more shift work was done this way. There have got to be so many people
working grueling hours and harming themselves otherwise needlessly.

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loosetypes
This case sounds like a positive

But it’s a bit scary that the telecommute, which maybe hasn’t, I think, caught
on - at least as a means to include in-demand, distributed “information”
workers - might catch on at scale when purposed in a way that could physically
exclude workers with “menial” jobs from the need to live locally.

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dpflan
This is fascinating! If you're interested in some of research on
neurotechnologies (e.g. BCI-controlled robots/robotic limbs), check out the
BrainGate research group:
[https://www.braingate.org/](https://www.braingate.org/)

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b_tterc_p
This is a great concept. It does feel weird though that it’s tied to an
anime... I can’t tell why exactly this exists. Is it a venture into much
needed independence for paralyzed people? Or... is it horribly distasteful
advertising that will soon be taken away?

~~~
antepodius
Could easily be both. Turning a profit by making use of people who were
previously less useful? It's a capitalist's dream.

~~~
hiccuphippo
And in exchange make them useful and able to gain a wage themselves.

~~~
antepodius
Yep. I'd probably spring at this opportunity if I was paralyzed and couldn't
do anything else.

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bregma
Robots are autonomous mechanisms. These are waldoes. Not to belittle the
purpose and sentiment (and kudos to the effort to better enabling those with
physical restrictions), but an androideqsue waldo is just not a robot.

~~~
jimmydddd
[https://laughing-stalk.blogspot.com/2016/12/an-open-
letter-t...](https://laughing-stalk.blogspot.com/2016/12/an-open-letter-to-
well-actually-guy.html)

~~~
claudiawerner
>No, you're right, Well Actually Guy. It's not just used by emotional abusers.
It's also used by socially tone deaf people who seek to belittle the
experiences of others in order to score debate points, or force their way into
a discussion that has absolutely nothing to do with them.

This seems much too assuming; sometimes technicalities are important to a good
discussion, and of course this ties into the concept of sealioning[0] too, but
revealing sealioning is a better tool to use against such people. Sealioning
is where people don't recognise that you don't _want_ to debate everything, so
they continue to pester you. But once committed to a discussion, the tools of
skepticism, doubt and rigor are all very useful. They may be useful (within
some margin some of us might find agreeable or disagreeable) on a site almost
expressly for interesting perspectives - Hacker News.

Often I'm happy that there's a "well actually" guy to provide nuance where it
might be needed. Maybe it's not needed, but often it is. There is a time and
place, and many of the author's examples are examples of the wrong time and
place to "well actually". It doesn't mean the points are wrong.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning)

~~~
jimmydddd
Good points.

------
Symmetry
_Ship Who Sang_ here we come.

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tkubacki
For me even better idea would be to create coffe&chat type of Cafe. When real
people can talk with other real people, though via robotic interface (contrary
to human controlled robotic waiters which can be replaced with AI controlled
robotic waiters at some point).

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abledon
Starcraft dragoon anyone ?

------
known
Shell Oil exclusively employs disabled people in India

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kazinator
They seem to have cooling fannies in their fannies. :)

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mavdi
Christ, that second video is Black Mirror AF.

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srikanthkalin
its one of the great thing keeping going guys

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tossaccount123
wow, using technology to increase productivity to make up for stable
population rather than importing millions of people who will be out of jobs
due to technological advances in a few years. Truly a game changing strategy

~~~
hopler
That doesn't make sense. If productivity increase is inevitable, it's not a
game changer strategy. If technology increases human productivity, then
immigrants won't be unemployed in a few years, consumers will be wealthier.

~~~
somebodythere
Consumers will be wealthier only if the productivity gains from automation end
up in consumers' wallets--and because employment is the main way that money
gets into consumers' wallets, this is not a given.

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tsimionescu
On the one hand, giving disabled people some activity that helps them be
independent and care for themselves sounds great!

On the other hand, the idea that this could become a weapon against disabled
people (why are you staying on benefits? go out and get a job for yourself,
you lazy paraplegic!) is... scary.

Especially given that it sounds mostly like a marketing gimmick, and that the
very thing allowing them to interact with the world is not their own, but
property of the store owners - i.e. they can't take the robot and move to a
different caffe, they are tied to the benevolence of their boss.

Overall, this is much more distopic than utopic, and should be discouraged in
this form; but the technology is interesting and could be an asset in the
lives of many people.

~~~
whatshisface
> _On the other hand, the idea that this could become a weapon against
> disabled people (why are you staying on benefits? go out and get a job for
> yourself, you lazy paraplegic!) is... scary._

This one restaurant can't employ more than a tiny fraction of paraplegics, so
I doubt that will happen. Sure, irrational people could use that argument, but
irrational people can already use a lot of irrational arguments. If remote
operation of drones by paraplegics suddenly becomes a major part of society,
so that operations like this restaurant would be a significant part of the
policy debate, paraplegics would be better off and potentially not need
benefits. Wouldn't that be an ideal goal?

~~~
theoh
As someone who has experienced it, I believe that the neoliberal concept of
"workfare" and the related idea that just _any_ job is good for the disabled
is something we need to be really careful about. This isn't just a "late
capitalism" thing, it's a historical problem where, for example, the mentally
ill have been expected to work as gardeners at the institution which houses
them, whether or not this is a fulfilling job for them. It goes back to the
idea of the workhouse and beyond.

One crucial issue is that the person who is being asked to do the work needs
to feel that they can say no.

Finding ways to extract labour from people who would otherwise be a "pure
burden" on society is obviously fraught with risks of exploitation.

~~~
whatshisface
> _One crucial issue is that the person who is being asked to do the work
> needs to feel that they can say no._

If more than one tele-operated cafe is founded, then their employees will have
exactly the same choice as most people who work in the service industry today.
If only one tele-operated cafe company is ever started, then it will not be a
very big social change. That's really all I'm saying.

Of course, we could imagine that one company would become gigantic and also
the world's only employer of disabled people, but that concern applies equally
to every commercial enterprise and people group. Any company could become a
labor monopsony in the right (wrong?) environment.

