
Ask HN: Why Services like Facebook ads/stripe are closing Venezuelan accounts? - firekvz
Services like Facebook ads&#x2F;stripe are wrongly closing Venezuelan accounts<p>Venezuelan users have been reporting that different services such as facebook&#x2F;instagram ads [1], heroku services [2], stripe atlas [3], sedo [4], and others, have been blocking venezuelan users and terminating accounts due to sactions that they didn&#x27;t even care to read, the sactions are pretty explicit at targeting only individuals and officials of the government [5] and there is even licences that allow these services to operate [6] and a faq [7] where this is explained<p>Even kayak.com (and all booking holdings sites) stopped accepting venezuela as a country of origin for flights, (see: https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;nAouvUB.png) with a learn more link that goes to [5], and it makes no sense at all despite how much we need to buy plane tickets as people is fleeing the country.<p>So, what&#x27;s the deal with these services closing their doors to 30million venezuelans  when the sactions are targeting a defined list of individuals?<p>---<p>[1] https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;search?q=facebook%20ads%20venezuela&amp;src=typed_query&amp;f=live<p>[2] https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;gonzalezlrjesus&#x2F;status&#x2F;1167833470116225025<p>[3] https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stripe.com&#x2F;docs&#x2F;atlas<p>[4] https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sumarium.es&#x2F;2019&#x2F;08&#x2F;06&#x2F;empresa-alemana-sedo-suspende-todas-las-cuentas-de-venezolanos-por-las-sanciones&#x2F;<p>[5] https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.treasury.gov&#x2F;resource-center&#x2F;sanctions&#x2F;Programs&#x2F;Pages&#x2F;venezuela.aspx<p>[6] https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.treasury.gov&#x2F;resource-center&#x2F;sanctions&#x2F;Programs&#x2F;Documents&#x2F;venezuela_gl25.pdf<p>[7] https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.treasury.gov&#x2F;resource-center&#x2F;faqs&#x2F;Sanctions&#x2F;Pages&#x2F;faq_other.aspx#venezuela
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dhhdhdsbdb
Because the upside of continuing to take money from Venezuela is outweighed by
the risk that you miss someone specific, or accidentally sell to someone
you're not supposed to.

Why would these companies, already in hot water federally, risk giving any
more ammo to their naysayers?

~~~
mastazi
In addition, in a “planned economy” like that of Venezuela, it may be quite
hard to assess who works for the government and who doesn’t (and I suppose
that in many cases the answer would be “it’s complicated” anyway).

~~~
rhizome
What economy is not planned? Why call that out with scare quotes?

~~~
mastazi
I'm using quotes because it's an imprecise definition and some may disagree
with it, thank you for proving my point

~~~
rhizome
Right, and I was trying to ask where a possible line might be by asking about
what is on the other side.

------
doctorpangloss
I personally support raising awareness of the suffering of innocent
Venezuelans and how tech companies are exacerbating that suffering. It would
be interesting to see which employees of be tech companies will die on the
hill of protecting talented, industrious Venezuelans using American web
services to thrive in a very oppressive economy.

Conversely, when it's something abstract, like a machine learning research
program that barely works or a search engine that doesn't exist yet and that
nobody will use, people are ready to make careers out of talking to the press.

~~~
9nGQluzmnq3M
> how tech companies are exacerbating that suffering.

Can you expand a bit on how (say) Instagram ads are responsible for suffering
in Venezuela?

~~~
scandox
Well as indicated in the comment if they are "using American web services to
thrive in a very oppressive economy" and those services cut them off because
they can't be bothered to discriminate then they are potentially harming those
person's livelihoods.

~~~
9nGQluzmnq3M
So it's the _lack of_ services that's causing suffering, not the services
themselves? That makes more sense, but then your protests should be directed
at the US government, which created the sanctions.

~~~
CameronNemo
Agree, and the service providers are fairly supportive stakeholders. But is a
small group of entrepreneurs in Venezeuala and tech companies going to change
the administration's policy on Venezuela? I doubt it.

------
ramphastidae
A quick Google search says that it has been expanded from specific individuals
to a full economic embargo:

> Washington has slapped more than 100 current and former Venezuelan officials
> with sanctions in recent years and has severely restricted Venezuelan oil
> and gold exports. But Monday’s measures put the country on par with Cuba,
> Iran, Syria and North Korea as being economically isolated by the United
> States.

> The embargo carves out exceptions for food, clothing and other humanitarian
> aid being sent to Venezuela.

[https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-
world/world/americas...](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-
world/world/americas/venezuela/article233561902.html)

~~~
firekvz
yes, to the "goverment of venezuela", not to civilians, also it has a license
specific to avoid what is happening: [https://www.treasury.gov/resource-
center/sanctions/Programs/...](https://www.treasury.gov/resource-
center/sanctions/Programs/Documents/venezuela_gl25.pdf)

the date of both documents is the same

~~~
owenmarshall
My _guess_ would be that the US companies are entirely unwilling to invest the
effort required to implement fine grained blocking; faced with “lose
Venezuelan customers” or “be charged with violating US sanctions”, they chose
to IP blacklist the country.

~~~
dmix
Like all policies it must be viewed with a broad perspective as they rarely
have an impact limited to the narrow scope of the law itself. Most people
don't even try to engage that type of regulatory system so you never hear
about the real consequences of most policies like that. Companies that give up
before even trying are rarely going to be making much noise about the laws to
get people to notice.

This is similar to the effects of "chilling speech" that speech restrictions
or other indirect policies often generate, which often happens on a far larger
scale than those who were actually stopped directly by the law itself. People
who never even tried to engage with the new rules just choose not to say
anything at all (ie avoiding the subjects or groups of people entirely instead
of adapting or continuing to speak within the new framework).

~~~
jessaustin
This reminds me of the myth of "loopholes". Gosh we're not sure why these
loopholes with which we've filled our laws usually benefit the firms who spend
the most lobbying the government! Gosh we could never have predicted that this
Byzantine sanctions scheme would hurt the average Venezuelan!

------
readhn
to understand better American external business and political policies i
highly recommend reading this book:

[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q67L00/ref=dp-kindle-
redirect?...](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q67L00/ref=dp-kindle-
redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1)

It will explain a lot of the events that are happening today and that already
happened

------
einpoklum
> Why Services like Facebook ads/stripe are closing Venezuelan accounts?

Because Facebook's users are not its clients, but rather its raw material. In
fact, one wonders if even minor advertisers aren't more important as sources
of data than of revenue.

So, Facebook does not feel obligated to serve (if it can all be said to serve)
the people of Venezuela.

> So, what's the deal with these services closing their doors to 30million
> venezuelans when the sactions are targeting a defined list of individuals?

Perhaps it's virtue signaling to US politicians and deep-state officials to
indicate their loyalty.

