
Librem 5 Hardware Update - fghtr
https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-hardware-update/
======
eptcyka
My current question is - will there be silicon cases and tempered glass screen
protectors available? I've pre-ordered, and I don't expect the sturdiest build
quality, so I'd want to have some tools to protect agianst it. I'm not meaning
any offense towards Purism and their craftsmanship, it's just that the first
iterations of projects like these have more important things to optimize for
than hamfist-compatibility.

~~~
bunnycorn
For glass, it's different, but if it's glass, you can always cut from a bigger
glass.

For cases, 3D print one, for comfortably less than 200€ you can get a Open-
Source Hardware Certified Ender 3, and that's with DHL shipping already.

~~~
tivert
> For cases, 3D print one,

I know someone who 3D-printed a phone case with a consumer printer he got for
Christmas, and it fell apart within a few days.

~~~
penagwin
As a hobbyist that built my own printer I assure you he could've printed it at
a better quality then that. Prints can vary wildly in quality, and the price
of the machine is largely irreverent (1000$ printers can easily match a 10,000
$ in quality in many cases). He may not've had the most optimal settings for
the print.

That said I don't think 3D printing phone cases is worth doing for any reason
other then the cool factor. I'd expect 3rd parties to start selling cases for
it fairly quickly, there just might not be a huge range of
colors/options/prices

------
impostir
I want the Purism 5 to be a good 1st gen phone; I am not expecting Apple-level
build quality or the newest hardware. But even with what I consider reasonable
expectations, I am very uncertain with purism's ability to reach them. Making
even just a decent smartphone is really difficult, and purism appears to be
struggling already. I wish them the best, but I won't consider the phone until
monthes after laumch.

~~~
confounded
I put up the cash as soon as it was launched. As someone who has funded many
_“Linux on an X”_ projects over the years, my expectations on timelines and
polish are very low.

I don’t expect this device to be good enough to replace my iPhone immediately,
but I desperately want something running Free Software that can, in the
medium-term. I’m very very happy to fund and hack on the project in the
meantime.

------
zunzun
This hardware update does not appear to contain any update on the hardware.

~~~
acct1771
Any update that doesn't say "delay" is an update in and of itself.

------
ajennings
I'm considering preordering this, but I'd like some confirmation it will work
with my Verizon account. The FAQ says:

    
    
      The Librem 5 is an open network phone, not locked to any particular network.
      We aim to support 3G and 4G for the most common international frequency bands and carriers, with an interchangeable module. Exact specifications will follow as we are evaluating the data+voice modems that will be used.
      We expect it to work on 3G and 4G networks, and hope for it to also work for GSM, UMTS, or LTE-based network services.
    

which is not quite convincing enough.

~~~
samueloph
"The Librem 5 is an open network phone, not locked to any particular network.

We aim to support 3G and 4G for the most common international frequency bands
and carriers, with an interchangeable module. Exact specifications will follow
as we are evaluating the data+voice modems that will be used.

We expect it to work on 3G and 4G networks, and hope for it to also work for
GSM, UMTS, or LTE-based network services."

~~~
criddell
Just because it's technically compatible doesn't mean the network operator
will allow the device, does it?

I remember hearing Jeff Jarvis' story about trying to get Verizon to let him
use a Nexus 7 tablet. IIRC was compatible with the network but Verizon dragged
their feet for a long time.

[https://buzzmachine.com/2013/11/06/the-verizon-saga-
continue...](https://buzzmachine.com/2013/11/06/the-verizon-saga-continues/)

~~~
shmerl
T-Mobile usually have no problem with custom devices. Avoid Verizon if you
can.

~~~
RussianCow
Verizon still has by far the best coverage in many parts of the US, so it may
be the only option if that's important to you.

~~~
shmerl
That was the case in the past, but T-Mobile were actively building up their
network in the recent times so it should be a lot better than before. I didn't
compare it myself, so can't say how much it has improved in areas where it was
bad before.

~~~
RussianCow
I switched from Verizon to T-Mobile a couple years ago, and where I live
(Oregon), T-Mobile's service is absolute garbage compared to Verizon's. It was
fine in the dense parts of the city, but anything outside of that was a total
gamble. Driving to the mountain, the beach, or really anywhere outside the
metro area nearly guaranteed a lack of service all or most of the way. I even
had poor reception in parts of my house, and would sometimes lose calls in my
kitchen!

I recently switched to AT&T and am much happier, but there are still occasions
where my wife (on Verizon) has service but I don't. I've also heard similar
anecdotes from people I've met in other parts of the country, so I don't think
Oregon is the only state for which this is true.

(Before you say that this was a problem with my phone, I changed phones once
while I was still on T-Mobile, and the service did not improve.)

~~~
reaperducer
_I live (Oregon), T-Mobile 's service is absolute garbage compared to
Verizon's_

It's all regional. There are places in America where T-Mobile is streets ahead
of Verizon.

The upper Midwest, and the Gulf Coast, for example, because T-Mobile bought
VoiceStream, and PrimeCo, which were dominant in those areas years ago.

Between personal and work devices, I carry AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile with me
almost everywhere I go across America (usually two or three different states a
month). Verizon is best in populated areas. T-Mobile is best in lower density
places. AT&T is something of a crapshoot. Some places it's incredibly good,
and some places it's like trying to make a phone call on an angry hedgehog.

~~~
linuxftw
> There are places in America where T-Mobile is streets ahead of Verizon.

Nonsense, it's not even a comparison. Tmobile is complete garbage coverage
compared to Verizon or AT&T. I don't believe there is any place in the US
where Tmobile has better coverage than Verizon.

~~~
reaperducer
_I don 't believe there is any place in the US where Tmobile has better
coverage than Verizon._

All I can suggest is you get out more. And carry one of each device with you
simultaneously, as I do.

------
dewyatt
I received my dev kit and immediately broke it.

The SOM connects to the mainboard with 4x 80-pin tiny connectors. If you miss
the little warning on the silkscreen and lift from the wrong side, BAM, two
broken connectors.

Purism said they would sell me a replacement SOM, but they're not really
communicating now.

~~~
craftyguy
Why did you try to remove the SOM? I have a devkit, and have ported an OS to
it, but have not found any reason to unseat the SOM.

~~~
dewyatt
I always like to take note of the ICs on new dev hardware I'll be working
with.

For one, I may find that something isn't working and the chips may be relevant
to that. For two, if I want to re-purpose the kit for something in the future,
that list of chips will let me know if I'm going to need to write a driver for
my target OS.

You can gather a lot of this info from a running OS, but it's much quicker and
more accurate to just look at the chips in my experience.

(Purism did finally send me a return shipping label for the SOM today)

------
arendtio
> Replaceable Battery: Yes (with tools)

I am Looking forward to the Librem 5 since a while, but those specs aren't
particularly promising. In general, there are three features I am missing most
often in today's smartphones:

1\. Replaceable Battery (without tools)

2\. SD-Card Slot

3\. Wireless Charging

Sadly there are very few models which have all three features. Requiring tools
to change the battery is okay if you want to replace an old one with a new one
once in a while, but not if you are on vacation, using GPS all day long, and
just want to quickly change it.

~~~
pfooti
Replaceable batteries are kind of a lost cause these days. You could buy some
model-specific batteries and deal with rotating them around and charging them
up and carrying them and rebooting your phone when you want to swap, or you
could instead get a power brick that works with most/all of your devices and
doesn't require swapping, and doesn't get obsoleted by a phone upgrade.

It doesn't solve every problem that a removable battery solves, but it solves
enough of those problems that you're unlikely to see much demand for a
removable battery anymore.

And remember that engineering the removable battery means engineering for a
couple extra mm in thickness for the battery enclosure, which isn't needed in
a tools-only or soldered-in kind of deal.

~~~
Wowfunhappy
> Replaceable batteries are kind of a lost cause these days.

But, this is the signature open and hacker-friendly phone! Sure removable
batteries have fallen out of style in the mainstream, but this isn't a
mainstream product.

~~~
jekub
But I'm in their target market and I don't want a replaceable battery. I just
want the battery to be serviceable when it wear.

For a given phone size, a replaceable battery require some additional space
which means it will be smaller than a non-replaceable one.

I don't want to buy one or two additional battery to carry with me when I can
get a battery that last a bit longer and that I can charge with any power
bank. (mine or the one of a friend as there is no compatibility problems)

Users who want replaceable battery are niche in the niche.

~~~
Wowfunhappy
I highly doubt this phone is going to win the thinness wars anyway, so the
space savings aren't going to be as relevant. It would be much smarter to
differentiate themselves on features such as replaceable batteries, which the
mainstream market has ignored precisely because they want to chase thinness.

The real question is, how many users want replaceable batteries, and is there
enough overlap between that group and the audience for an OSS phone. I would
_imagine_ the overlap is significant, but without market research on the
subject I don't know if I'm right.

------
mike-cardwell
In the hardware spec list it says:

"Smart Card Reader: Yes (OpenPGP-compatible)"

The same list says it doesn't have NFC, so I'm just wondering what sort of
interface this is going to be, so what sort of cards can be used... Anyone
have any idea?

[edit] They have the Librem Key - [https://puri.sm/products/librem-
key/](https://puri.sm/products/librem-key/) \- but that requires a full sized
USB port, which I assume this phone wont have.

~~~
confounded
It would likely be a _literal smartcard_ reader. E.g. you put something in
there that looks the chip in your debit card.

~~~
mastazi
What do you mean when you say "a literal smartcard reader"? Do you have a
link? All the smartcard readers that I have seen are way too large to be
placed in a smartphone e.g.
[http://www.dualboost.com/index.php?pos=photos](http://www.dualboost.com/index.php?pos=photos)

~~~
Avery3R
All you need is a little slit on the bottom of the phone that you can insert
the smartcard into. It doesn't even have to go in all the way, just enough to
get the contacts touching.

------
lucb1e
Looks like it's an update on that the hardware started landing in some
people's hands, not a change in hardware.

------
alexkavon
Maybe the community around this, both skeptics and non-skeptics alike, should
come together and ask Purism to Open Source document the phone and it’s
process of building a device like this (through as many mediums as they
choose)? These blog posts are nice and fill a basic need of the public, but it
would be great to give the idea and opportunity legs if they do or don’t
succeed.

Reader beware, I preordered.

------
ncmncm
I ordered one a couple of months ago. I am hoping it turns out usable.
Anything beyond that is gravy.

I am a bit disappointed to find them programming it in C "in this day and
age". I would rather find C++ code, which leaves less room for dumb bugs, and
is quicker to write and refine. But C++ code written by C programmers would be
no better than C, and in the end you go with who you have.

~~~
mangix
given how insanely bloated the language is, I doubt it.

GTK is written in C.

~~~
ncmncm
When you have to resurrect 1990s falsehoods to make a point, you have no
point.

There are good C++ wrappers to make GTK tolerable to use, although they cannot
make it less buggy.

------
jammygit
I'm not sure why I haven't preordered one yet. I think I'm worried I won't be
able to use it for daily use due to missing key apps (signal, authy, anki,
password manager)

Realistically, I think that's my only concern. Might still get one though to
tinker with

------
blojayble
[https://wiki.puri.sm/hw/L13/v3](https://wiki.puri.sm/hw/L13/v3)

Seems like the wiki has not been updated properly.

>"Don't list problems"

Well, I would rather be aware of those.

.

Edit: Jumped around the site too much and lost the context...

~~~
arendtio
That page is not about the Librem 5

------
otachack
As a iOS/Android developer, I'm looking forward to more information on dev
tools. Last time I went through their docs for this information it wasn't very
clear where to start.

~~~
AsyncAwait
Basically, download GNOME Builder and then it's your standard GTK development.
Or you can use any other tools that you would normally use when building for
Linux.

~~~
RussianCow
> Or you can use any other tools that you would normally use when building for
> Linux.

That's not super helpful if you've never built anything for Linux before.

~~~
AsyncAwait
Ok, let me try to be a bit more helpful then.

On Linux there are two big desktop environments, (GUIs, desktops etc. on
macOS/Windows there's no choice, only one).

These environments are called GNOME and KDE.

The Librem5 will by default ship with a GNOME-based environment, customized
for phones. On GNOME, you program GUI applications using a widget library
called GTK, now at version 3. Think of this akin to Cocoa/WinForms.

There are two main programming languages to develop GTK apps, C and Vala,
(Vala's akin to C#), however there are bindings to many other languages
including Python and JavaScript, so unlike on macOS/Windows, you're not as
restricted when it comes to your development environment.

GNOME has an IDE for building applications intended to run on it called
Builder, akin to Xcode/Visual Studio. You'd normally use this IDE to develop
your app. You'd want to select the Flatpak project type. Flatpak is a way to
ship apps that will be supported on the phone. There's a library called
libhandy you can use to make sure your app fits nicely on the phone ie is
responsive.

The reference GNOME docs can be found at
[https://developer.gnome.org](https://developer.gnome.org), the Librem 5 dev
docs, which are WIP are at
[https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5](https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5) and the
libhandy API docs are at
[https://honk.sigxcpu.org/projects/libhandy/doc](https://honk.sigxcpu.org/projects/libhandy/doc)

Now because this phone is GNU/Linux and is open, you're not restricted to what
I laid out above, that's just the most sanctioned way to develop apps.

The phone will be able to run any Linux binary that can be compiled for ARM,
so as long as the compiler you're using can do that you can use pretty much
any language, framework etc. You can even draw your graphics via OpenGL or
ship a command line app or anything else you may wish.

You're not as restricted, but also not as guided as on iOS/Android.

~~~
RussianCow
Sorry, I realized my comment was probably snarkier than I mean it and made it
look like I was fishing for a "more helpful" answer. :)

That said, this is a great comment! Thanks for summarizing!

~~~
AsyncAwait
No problem, honestly I was just a bit lazy with my first comment, you pushed
me to stop being lazy, so thanks. :-)

