
Is Microsoft Afraid to Say the L-word? - monkeygrinder
http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/index.cfm?blogid=14&entryid=2845
======
wedesoft
Read the Port25 article. I especially like the fact that only Microsoft
Windows runs the top 10 downloads on Sourceforge: Well, GNU+Linux obviously
sucks because it doesn't run popular applications such as "7-Zip" and "Gimp
Installer for Windows". And that open source applications such as Firefox run
under Windows as well clearly reflects Microsoft's increased engagement with
Open Source Software.

~~~
nroach
Yep, I'm very broken up about my inability to install Gimp on Linux using the
Gimp Installer for Windows.

It strikes me as pretty disingenuous to say that only Windows can run the "top
10" downloads when your top 10 list includes vectors for installation of a
target application that does run on other platforms, albeit with a different
installation routine.

------
RyanMcGreal
Looked at differently: Windows runs on >85% of PCs and Linux (sorry, POSIX-
Compatible systems) runs on <5% of PCs; yet over 90% of open source
applications run on Linux but only 82% run on Windows.

~~~
bad_user
That's because most developers accustomed to giving away code under open-
source are using Linux/FreeBSD or something similar ... as you're more likely
to participate in a gift economy when other people / companies are generous to
you.

So when Windows is not your primary target, for an open-source project is just
a nice-to-have (that's why many projects look/behave like ass on Windows, and
this isn't mentioned in the report).

Personally I wouldn't mind for those developers on Microsoft-platforms to
contribute more. It would mean more open-source for everybody. But culture
matters a lot and I don't see this happening too soon.

~~~
Vivtek
I run Windows and I contribute!

But there's a basic cultural difference - there are a boatload of cheap closed
applications on Windows and people just kind of expect them to cost around
$30. I spend the extra little time to find the open ones, but it's difficult
sometimes. You really have to know what OSS is to start with, then really care
about finding it. Most people just run their Outlook email and IE browser
because it's what came installed. They don't even _know_ you have the option
of running Thunderbird and Chrome.

~~~
bad_user
And unfortunately that culture is directly damaging the open-source ecosystem
on Windows.

For instance the author of Paint.NET (a former open-source project) started
releasing only binaries because some individual ripped off his work, taking
all the credits (in breach of its license), and probably bundling it with
spyware / charging money for it ...

[http://blog.getpaint.net/2007/12/04/freeware-authors-
beware-...](http://blog.getpaint.net/2007/12/04/freeware-authors-beware-
of-%E2%80%9Cbackspaceware%E2%80%9D/)
[http://blog.getpaint.net/2009/11/06/a-new-license-for-
paintn...](http://blog.getpaint.net/2009/11/06/a-new-license-for-
paintnet-v35/)

To see your work used like that, most likely without a Thank You, probably
hurts a lot.

~~~
RyanMcGreal
If it violated the licence, the author has legal recourse. If not:
<http://diveintomark.org/archives/2009/10/19/the-point>

~~~
bad_user
It violated the license ... if you read the first link, the author claims that
the individual deleted copyright references of him and of plugin contributors,
taking credit for the work.

The author also said he doesn't have the money or the time for legal recourse.

I also don't fully agree with Mark ... there is an unwritten rule in any
society ... when people are being nice giving you stuff for free / helping you
out, don't piss on their lawn ;)

In real-life when this happens, you just slam the door on his face next time.
This also happened here, but unfortunately because of the easy means of
redistribution, the author just slammed the door on everybody.

------
lazyant
I saw the same thing when reading one of the first book about C# that
Microsoft published; it its introduction it spent all the time talking about
C# and C and it managed to avoid ever mentioning Java when it's evident than
C# is much closer to Java than to C.

------
froo
In other news: Coke runs advertising without mentioning Pepsi. Sports coming
up next.

Honestly, is this really news? Company X writes an article and fails to
mention a competitor? Where's the conspiracy?

~~~
j_baker
I don't think anyone was accusing Microsoft of "conspiring". I think it's more
about the amusement factor of the whole thing. It's more like Coke running an
advertisement talking about Pepsi as "a major competing brand whose name
rhymes with mepsi".

------
jcl
I expect "POSIX-compatible" is just a way to avoid saying "GNU/Linux- and
FreeBSD-compatible" everywhere.

~~~
j_baker
Don't forget "OS X-compatible" and "Solaris compatible".

~~~
mcav
Which then effectively means "Non-Windows compatible".

~~~
bad_user
"Unix and C are the ultimate computer viruses."

<http://www.jwz.org/doc/worse-is-better.html>

------
barnaby
Isn't Mac POSIX-compatible too? Mac and Linux adoption combined are growing at
20+% per year.(today: 11.7%, last year: 9.7%, The year before that: 8%). Those
are not new customers being acquired by the OS market, NO, that's customers
being taken from Microsoft in an already saturated OS market. They are losing
customers to Linux and Mac, and this is how they put a good face on a bad
situation.

This is according to <http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp> of
course

------
lfgmikujhygfv
"82% of open source software runs on Windows" I suspect this should worry them
more than Linux.

Without the Office monopoly and the Server+SQLServer+IIS or exchange licence
fees MS doesn't look so good.

It doesn't really matter about linux's 10% of the desktop market if the EOM
copy of windows that came with your machine is the last bit of MS software you
(or your company) ever buys.

------
yumraj
This is really a non-news and the reason is simple, from a marketing
standpoint you never want to mention the competitor's brand because it
promotes that brand also, especially if that brand belongs to a newcomer/non-
market-leader and you're the market leader.

For example, if Coke ad (as someone else also reported) mentioned Pepsi, then
not only is a consumer seeing "Coke" but is also seeing "Pepsi".

The only time you see the competitor brand mentioned is when the ads are very
specifically negative or when they come from an underdog against a market
leader. The usual examples are Verizon-AT&T, Apple-MS, etc. Here the underdog
or newcomer has nothing to lose so they will mention the market leader's
brand.

So, here MS is not afraid, rather it doesn't make sense for them to mention
Linux or rather any *nix by name. But, if it was reverse, it totally makes
sense for Red Hat to mention MS Windows by name.

------
iuguy
Windows is Posix compliant.

~~~
CoreDumpling
For an extremely weak version of "compliant," and definitely not out of the
box. You'd have to grab Services for Unix, Cygwin, etc. to even get close.

~~~
shin_lao
Windows was build with a full POSIX.1 subsystem. It was part of the design
specifications.

What you are referring to is running some sort of Posix system on top of Win32
(Cygwin), but NT is capable of running Posix natively.

Services for Unix doesn't install a Posix subsystem, it replaces it with
another called Interix.

The POSIX subsystem has been removed from the installation since Windows XP.

n.b. : Subsystems are how programs interface with the "real" NT API. Win32 is
a subsystem as well.

~~~
vetinari
Returning "not implemented" is compliant with POSIX specification, but does
not make the implementation useful. Which is exactly the case of NT POSIX
subsystem.

~~~
shin_lao
Could you provide me with an example? NT subsystem fully implements POSIX.1

------
ErrantX
Is it me or does the graph on Port25 not stack up?

I _assume_ platform agnostic means "both windows and linux [and everything
else]"? so therefore how does Windows having 82% and Linux 94(ish)% coverage
add up?

Or have I read it wrong?

~~~
Zak
Platform agnostic on sourceforge (where the data come from) means written in
an interpreted language or compiled for a virtual machine like the JVM that
runs on multiple platforms.

~~~
ErrantX
Yeh that is what I thought. From which I interpreted that the platform
Agnostic group is the intersection of the Windows & Linux groups.

Which means the numbers dont add up.

------
TheSOB88
Well, contrary to my own popular belief, the word in question was not
"lesbian".

~~~
sparky
That was my inclination too, after the whole thing about Xbox Live gamertags.

[http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1605966/20090226/story.jhtm...](http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1605966/20090226/story.jhtml)
[http://www.lazygamer.co.za/xbox-360/its-ok-to-be-gay-
microso...](http://www.lazygamer.co.za/xbox-360/its-ok-to-be-gay-microsoft-
change-xbl-code-of-conduct/)

------
euroclydon
Heroku runs a _Posix Environment_. See here,

<http://heroku.com/how/dynos>

~~~
JackGowan
Microsoft does the same with Google!!

Steve Balmer when talking about search never mentions Google. He says the
market leader. An advertising man must have told them that its bad to
indirectly promote other products.

