

NIC.LY statement regarding the decision to block vb.ly - glenngillen
http://nic.ly/anvp.php

======
jacquesm
key bit here:

> The domain has also been excluded from future registrations so that no other
> entity (local or abroad) can re-register it.

So much for PGs theory that someone there wanted the domain and they took it
at a pretext: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1764475> It should be easy
enough to check up on it periodically to see if they're true to their word.

I wonder if the "local Libyan internet community" is an open body or if they
are semi government.

On the whole this is a pretty levelheaded and clear response, and it never
hurts to see the other side of the story.

That said, I still think that you're _much_ better off to invest your time,
money and effort in to .com, .net and .org domains and to steer clear of
cutesy domains from countries that can disable your domain based on the
content of your services.

As for their regulations being only available in Arabic:
<http://nic.ly/regulations.php>

~~~
dotBen
_As for their regulations being only available in
Arabic:<http://nic.ly/regulations.php> _

Yeah, did you read ALL of the regulations? Including the bit about your
content needing to stay within Libyan law.

Try finding ANYWHERE on the Internet that outlines what Libyan law is in
English.

And I say English not because I expect the Internet to all be in English, but
simply because as you point out the official NIC.ly regulations are published
in English.

Without that, it is impossible to put together a complete set of the
regulations (the NIC.ly regs + the Libyan law).

~~~
tlrobinson
Perhaps you shouldn't have built your business on a Libyan domain in the first
place then...

~~~
chadgeidel
This is what I keep coming back to. When you register a foreign domain, you
are at the mercy of the laws/whims of that entity. Eyes wide open and all
that.

------
dotBen
For the record we did NOT receive any communication from NIC.ly before they
pulled the vb.ly domain.

We had received other emails from them previously including our domain renewal
notice just a month and a half before so I know they had a working email
address for us and that we were receiving their other correspondence.

They've made out in their statement that we ignored their email - given how
upset myself and Violet Blue have been over this I would urge people to
consider whether these are the actions of two people who would intentionally
ignore such a significant warning. Why would we do that?

I do, however, feel relieved that they will not be letting anyone else
register the domain - we were concerned from a security perspective of someone
else registering the domain and re-routing existing vb.ly links out there to
insecure or spoofed websites.

 _(we hadn't highlighted this concern previously because we didn't want to
give anyone ideas but now they have said the domain is 'locked' I'm happy to
talk about that concern_ )

~~~
jacquesm
hey Ben,

Not to add insult to injury, but it is very hard - next to impossible - to
believe your version of this over the nic.ly version or vice-versa given the
available evidence. All there is are stories.

You are the 'injured party' and it is to your advantage to present your case
as strong as possible, and not being warned is of course going to make the
other side look bad.

They in turn are going to make it seem as though they did everything they
could and only used the disabling as a last resort.

From what I understand though, you were happy to operate this service under
their terms and conditions, knowing full well that they could repossess the
domain at a moments notice.

I would very much like to believe that they never sent you any email but it's
going to be very hard for you to prove that conclusively, they are going to
have an equally hard time showing that they warned you, but even if they
didn't it will not change things much (as far as I can see they're not going
to have a change of heart any time soon).

If I were you I'd pick a .com that has a good ring to it and relaunch, use the
current media frenzy around the story to get your new name out there before
you are 'old news'.

That way you get to rescue as much of the wreckage as possible.

Think about the future, not about the past. Good luck!

~~~
dotBen
_Not to add insult to injury, but it is very hard - next to impossible - to
believe your version of this over the nic.ly version or vice-versa given the
available evidence._

We didn't receive any prior warnings. If you're, essentially, saying you don't
believe me then that's your call.

I'm not sure what more I can do. Sad.

~~~
jacquesm
No, what I'm saying is that for an outsider it is impossible to know the
truth, no matter who you would want to believe or who you care about most.
Personally, I think you should be able to do whatever you want with domains
that you register in your name and that you paid for, so I'm sympathetic to
your case.

But the time to move on is NOW, not three weeks from now so use your 15
minutes of fame to relaunch your service on a new domain while the media hype
lasts or you'll have to start completely from scratch. You might even be able
to turn this whole thing to your advantage, I'm not a fan of URL shorteners in
any way, but if you're going to do one then make use of this, turn a
disadvantage in to an opportunity.

I'd never even heard of vb.ly before, I have now, and I'm sure that a relaunch
on a very short timeframe would still get you some media coverage.

~~~
dotBen
_Personally, I think you should be able to do whatever you want with domains
that you register in your name and that you paid for_

Do you not think that, really, this is the key issue and is a million more
times more important for everyone than what we were doing with the url
shortener itself?

I've spend a large amount of my career helping to build a free press
(http:/bbc.co.uk/news) and it's something I believe strongly in.

Violet has published 30+ books on sex and sexuality and is a guest on Oprah
and other outlets. I've got a good name for myself across the UK and San
Francisco start-up scene even if you've never heard of me. I don't think we
need to use this to get publicity for ourselves or our service (which was
never really commercial, we ran it for the benefit of the community).

The reason we're making a big deal of this is the censorship angle and making
sure that everyone else who has a .ly knows what is going on. We could have
just let them do this and no one would have known.

~~~
jacquesm
You make the mistake of trying to impose your own worldview and morals on an
entity that has absolutely no stake in that and has fairly clearly indicated
that your views and theirs are in conflict, and likely will remain so. You are
not going to convince Libya, the Liberian government or NIC.ly to change their
mind on this, and here on HN you are preaching to the choir.

Of course censorship is bad. And editorial control by a registrar over the
content of websites under their TLD sucks. But that was spelled out up-front.

You may think that that is the key issue, but in reality the key issue is if
you're going to wise up to the fact that you're fighting windmills here and
that if you don't move on, and fast that all your work on this will have come
to naught.

I fully understand you're upset, but frankly I don't care one bit how many
books your s.o. has written and how often she's on TV, the censorship angle
has nothing to do with it, unless you were purposely doing this from the
beginning to create a case to show that censorship from sexuality in Islamic
countries was what you had in mind when you registered that domain.

Personally I have a hard time believing that, I think that that is something
that only came about after you found your domain taken off-line, in other
words, you only started to care about censorship after being censored.

Sure, censorship is bad. That's why you stay away from dealing with government
entities that will allow themselves the right to censor you.

See Google vs China and many other examples.

~~~
dotBen
_I don't care one bit how many books your s.o. has written and how often she's
on TV_

I just wanted to say I think you got the wrong end of the stick on why I wrote
that... The gist of what I was trying to communicate is that we don't need to
use this "15 minutes of fame" (as you put it) to further ourselves or our
projects.

The point I was trying to make (which respectfully I don't think you got) is
that instead, I'm trying to use the attention to highlight the wider issues of
the .ly domain space for those who already own .ly domains, might register one
in the future or simply rely on .ly domains such as for url shortening.

In other words, this isn't about us. It's about the wider issue of .ly domains
in general. I'm sorry that this didn't come across to you from my previous
reply.

~~~
jacquesm
> The gist of what I was trying to communicate is that we don't need to use
> this "15 minutes of fame" (as you put it) to further ourselves or our
> projects.

Ok, I believe you.

What made you decide to go ahead with the .ly domain after you read about
their terms of service?

For me their policy would be a huge red flag, there is no way that I would
ever invest any time or effort or funds in to something on such a shaky
foundation, that's the part that puzzles me most about all this. After all it
should have given you an indication that the NIC of the TLD that you decided
on had a dim view of anything adult related.

My view of the .ly other TLDs like that is they are used mainly by several
gropus of people, most notably those that try to imitate something that is
already successful (for instance, bit.ly), or they feel that there is not
enough choice for catchy names in the predominant TLDs.

In your case I can see a technical motivation (URL shorteners should have a
short domain name or else their whole purpose goes away), and a bit of the
imitation factor. But those two together don't offset the risk for me, so what
made you do it?

Why not secure their agreement that they would be ok with this beforehand?

Someone else here in this thread mentioned that I probably don't read the
terms of service of the services that I use, and the funny fact is that I do,
and that I pick my suppliers very carefully, even if that sometimes means
paying a (hefty) premium. Business continuity is nothing to trifle with.

~~~
dotBen
_What made you decide to go ahead with the .ly domain after you read about
their terms of service?_

Sure, thanks for asking - and perhaps I should highlight this elsewhere.

So we DID read the regulations (at <http://nic.ly/regulations.php>). It
doesn't say ANYTHING in their regulations that they are going to make
editorial decisions upon the content of your site (as I said previously,
anything written on LibyanSpider.com is reference and not the article of
record, and as it happens they have changed a lot of wording since we
registered the domain 13+ months ago -- yes, they had no problems with this
for over a year!).

People have written whole blog posts on how we were wrong because it says
clearly they won't allow sexual or offensive references in domains. But the
wording in that caluse pertains to the DOMAIN and just the domain, not the
content of the site. And so the string "vb" in vb.ly clearly doesn't infringe
on any issues around sexual or offensive content.

So we're good so far, would you not agree?

The area we considered, and which ultimately NIC.ly said we were in violation
of is:

 _3.5 The Applicant certifies that, to the best of his/her knowledge the
domain name is not being registered for any activities/purpose not permitted
under Libyan law._

Now let me use what NIC.ly actually wrote to us, rather than this wider peanut
gallery speculation that people are putting upon this. As per
[http://techyum.com/2010/10/official-vb-ly-link-shortener-
sei...](http://techyum.com/2010/10/official-vb-ly-link-shortener-seized-by-
libyan-government/), Mr Alaeddin S. ElSharif of NIC.ly wrote:

 _Moving up the Regulations list we find clause 3.5 clearly states that: “The
Applicant certifies that, to the best of his/her knowledge the domain name is
not being registered for any activities/purpose not permitted under Libyan
law.”

Pornography and adult material aren’t allowed under Libyan Law, therefore we
removed the domain,_

Sure, ok: pornography and adult material isn't allowed under Libyan Law.

We didn't host any Pornography or adult material. The site was a single page,
as you can see from the screen grab on the TechYum url above.

So in conclusion I feel we performed the due diligence as per the regulations
and stayed within the regs. What I didn't expect is that NIC.ly would
interpret their regulations quite liberally _(no pun intended)_ in an effort
to close the domain. They claim there was a lot of pressure upon them
internally to do that, but what I assumed (incorrectly) is that no matter what
pressure there might be if something is within regs then I don't expect the
rug to be pulled out from under me.

What do you make of the above, Jacques, seeing as you have been quite vocal on
this top within this HN thread?

Thanks

~~~
jacquesm
> But the wording in that caluse pertains to the DOMAIN and just the domain,
> not the content of the site

Yes, that's true but that assumes a westerners mindset where you can go and
argue and if you are right 'you will get your way'. To me the fact that that
clause is present is a warning that they do care about the content of the URLs
themselves, which is one step removed from the content of the site. In that
case I would have either decided to let it go or I would have decided to
contact them to get an advance ruling if what I'm doing is ok with them.

> So we're good so far, would you not agree?

Technically, yes. But if they decide otherwise you will have to go to court
after pointing it out to them and then all they have to do is insert paragraph
4.4 which states that they now also reserve the right to yank .ly domains.

See, the whole idea that this is somehow 'right' is wrong to begin with. They
reserve the right to literally do what pleases them and you might be right in
a lawyerly sense but that won't get you anywhere until you're willing to take
it to a judge. And then you'd have to find a way to convince that judge that:

(1) having abided by the original terms of service you should be given your
domain back

(2) that even after you're given your domain back the only terms of service
that apply to you are the ones in effect at the first registration date, any
amendments do not apply to you

(3) that free sexuality is not in conflict with Libyan law

Add to that that every bit of publicity around this will likely work against
you in a society like that where 'setting examples' and a general dislike of a
public lack of perceived morality are the norm. Even if that's just lip
service that's an uphill battle.

> We didn't host any Pornography or adult material.

But you were actively promoting things that might be construed offensive or
pornographic according to them.

I've had a number of Turkish friends in the Netherlands, all very nice and
well adjusted people. Except on one front, the way dutch women dress. To a man
they considered dutch women 'harlots', and they used a much less friendly term
for them because of their dress.

What's pornography to you and a Libyan devout believer might be two very
different things.

> What I didn't expect is that NIC.ly would interpret their regulations quite
> liberally (no pun intended) in an effort to close the domain.

I think that you are probably at odds with a single individual very high up
the tree in the Libyan TLD administrator, who finds the content offensive and
wants to make sure that a signal is sent out to sites that associate
themselves with western morality when it comes to sexuality to leave the .ly
domains alone. I admit freely that that's pure speculation on my part.

> The site was a single page, as you can see from the screen grab on the
> TechYum url above.

To some people that image would be offensive. I understand if that is
something that you can not even fathom, please contrast it with the amazement
of US visitors to the Netherlands when they go to the beach here and see
plenty of naked people. They too find it offensive, here nobody bats an eye
(though some might peek).

> So in conclusion I feel we performed the due diligence as per the
> regulations and stayed within the regs.

ok.

You underestimate how loose the interpretation of rules can be when you are no
longer in a 'Western' society, the safe bet for stuff like this is 'when in
Rome do as the Romans do', and to use a country specific domain for something
that people in that country are unlikely to engage in and that might offend
sensibilities there is not the best course of action, even if by our standards
you are both in the right and should be perfectly free to do as you like.

By my standards nudism is fine, homosexuals should be able to marry and people
should be allowed to smoke pot and even use hard drugs if they desire to do
so, and that people should have the right to end their own lives (and with
dignity) if they so desire, but by the standards of the US that is not the
case.

So I probably wouldn't make a site with lots of instructions on how to grow
pot or other stuff like that under a .us domain and expect to be allowed to
operate it. Maybe they'll let it go, maybe they won't but I am not in an
urgent need to find out.

I note that the US government has seized a bunch of .com domains (see
[http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-and-megaupload-escape-
dom...](http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-and-megaupload-escape-domain-
seizure-by-us-100707/) ),

See for instance:

<http://zml.com/index.html>

I find that just as bad, and possibly worse because to me the US can and
should be held to higher standards than Libya, given their usual attitude of
having the moral high ground in matters like this.

~~~
dotBen
So I take on board a lot of your points and also minded that there comes a
point in all this where perhaps we're only going to get so close to agreeing.
To debate this much more probably offers diminishing returns.

Two comments though if I may:

Your point on

 _...that won't get you anywhere until you're willing to take it to a judge
[in the local country]._

While you might be right on one hand, if we conducted our life based on that
then many things in life would be curtailed.

I don't have the resources to visit Canada to visit court if I needed be, does
that mean I shouldn't sell my stuff on eBay to someone in Canada?

I want to visit Japan for vacation but I don't have the resource to go to
court for damages if the hotel doesn't honor my booking - do I therefore not
visit Japan?

I like to buy books and stuff from Amazon but I don't really have the
resources or inclination to go to court in Washington State (3 hrs flight
away) if they run off with my money and don't send me my stuff. Does that mean
I don't buy things from Amazon.com?

I want to rent an apartment here in San Francisco but I don't really have the
resources or inclination to go to court if the landlord takes my deposit -
does that mean I shouldn't rent here?

etc.

Do you REALLY think everyone who buys .ly domains is prepared to go to Libyan
court (including bit.ly?). Other way around, do you think everyone who
registers a .com/net/org is prepared to go to US federal court?

It's also interesting that you assume I'm American, as you've made several
references to that in my post. I'm actually British, spent most of my adult
life living in one of the most populated Islamic areas of London and indeed
the UK (Bethnal Green, East London) and I've read most of the Qur'an as part
of my education (not the case for education here in the US, as it happens).
I've extensively traveled through many Islamic countries.

I'm pretty aware of what Islam thinks is right or not based on it's views of
decency and I actually thought we were careful to navigate around that based
on what the NIC.ly regulations said they would (and wouldn't) regulate around.
The point is that I don't think Islam or Libya for that matter is some crooked
society where the rules of law are malleable as you make out. Perhaps on that
last point I am wrong.

~~~
jacquesm
> Do you REALLY think everyone who buys .ly domains is prepared to go to
> Libyan court (including bit.ly?)

No, but that you don't go to court in general is taken to mean that either you
don't care enough about the issue, that you consider your chances weak or that
you feel that you can spend your time better, or any combination of that.

You _could_ go to court, challenge their decision and _maybe_ it would go your
way. I personally don't believe it is worth the effort, if you have other ways
of resurrecting your website then I would concentrate on that instead.

I've gone to court abroad several times and have won in each of those cases, I
cared enough that I thought a lawsuit was warranted and even though it cost me
plenty I think it was well worth it. I figured my chances were good, and that
of course factored in there as well.

Going to court on principle is an expensive hobby.

> It's also interesting that you assume I'm American, as you've made several
> references to that in my post.

I tried to stay away from that and tried to use 'western' as a stand in, so if
I slipped up then my apologies, HN is quite US centric and at times it feels
like the people from other countries here are a serious minority. Especially
around US election time.

And you do live in San Francisco, so for now at least you seem to be part of
the US more than of the UK, so maybe that would not have been such a bad
assumption after all ;)

> The point is that I don't think Islam or Libya for that matter is some
> crooked society where the rules of law are malleable as you make out.
> Perhaps on that last point I am wrong.

I think their laws are not 'malleable' per se, I think that expecting a
Western attitude towards the law in non-Western countries is simply not the
right thing to do.

We are very 'straight lined', we believe in logic in all its glory and we like
things to be clear. Non-Western societies are much more arranged around
customs and the things that are 'not said'. For them to spell out that this is
not permitted is possibly already maneuvering them in to a corner where they'd
rather not be.

------
slantyyz
I'm not sure I understand the hubbub over this. When you register a domain
from a country where.. um, "reasonable dispute resolution" can't be expected,
caveat emptor.

If this was a dispute with Network Solutions, or GoDaddy, I can see the
outrage. But it's with a domain associated with Libya. I say again, Libya.

Lower your expectations, and then lower them even more.

~~~
borism
It's not simply Libya.

This country's full name is Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya.

~~~
jacquesm
Yes, just like the former East Germany was called 'the peoples democratic
republic of Germany'.

North Korea, China and a bunch of others all have very flowery names hiding
some pretty ugly stuff.

~~~
borism
I dunno what your comment has to do with anything other than getting upvotes,
which I'm sure you'll get plenty of.

My comment was more geared towards pointing out the obvious incompatibility of
US based porn capitalist and Libyan Arab Socialist government. And that's not
even getting into history of these two countries' relations.

I'm amused how little educated some people here are about the Rest of the
World.

~~~
slantyyz
_...pointing out the obvious incompatibility of US based porn capitalist and
Libyan Arab Socialist government. And that's not even getting into history of
these two countries' relations._

from your original comment:

 _It's not simply Libya._

 _This country's full name is Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab
Jamahiriya._

I tend to think the more common takeaway from your comment is that you were
being picky about my use of Libya's common name as opposed to the full name.
That's how I read it.

------
ritonlajoie
I find this story about vb.ly pretty interesting. First of all, I'm sorry for
your loss ! :) The thing is, as many pointed out, don't expect to be able to
negociate anything with Libya. I'm not saying it's a bad country or anything,
but it's just how this country runs ! They do their stuff, and that's ok with
me. (I'm no-one to have any concern about how the libians should run their
internet).

The .ly domains are pretty popular these days. Maybe because there is bit.ly
which is well known, and because 'ly' is something new, and better than '.fr'
for example. But maybe it's time to move on. I know, the domain is important.
But vb.ly is not like smart.ly ! it's not a word. You can take any other
domain from now, and your name won't change that much.

Jacquesm (who I respect a lot), is saying the key bit is that they won't let
anyone register this domain again. What makes me write a comment here is
another 'bit', : "We as a Registry would prefer seeing art.ly used for a
website about Libyan art for instance, or lda.ly used by the Libyan De-mining
Association, rather than adding more URL shorteners under our National TLD."

THIS, is something I really can understand. The net is something done
globally, and it's not something that just can be ruled by what _we_ call the
western world. The LY domain is the libian top domain. As far as I know, Libya
is a country, and they so have the right to rule this domain as they wish.
Maybe they want some control over it ? That's their right. They have policies
different than the .com NIC registration rules, they also have the right to be
different, in their .ly ruling, than what _we_ (the westerns) have done done
with the .net/.com/.org domains.

And maybe this call to 'we would prefer art.ly pointing to a libian art
website' is maybe only PR stuff. But even in France I remember some trials
about national TV's websites (france2.fr, france3.fr) that foreigners owned.
These owners lost their domains due to the fact that .FR domains are made FOR
FRANCE. That means, France, the country, can do whatever he wants with the .FR
if you don't comply to THEIR rules. So, in short, I'm just saying I completely
agree with that particular point.

Libya is growing, it's going on the globalization stuff. Maybe they are right
to have a control over their domains (as they SHOULD do, in my opinion). Maybe
one day they will develop their tourism and will have to host websites on very
important domains , related to them (on .ly). And I would not be surprised if
they properly stop the renewal of some .ly domains in the idea to acquire them
for themselves, in order to host art.ly, hostels.ly, etc... And you know, I
would find it very _right_.

edit: I accept any downvote, no worries ! I know what I am saying here is
completely against freedom regarding whoever wants to squat the .ly domains !
And I know I'm actually defending what they did, and that they don't have a
good reputation. Personally I hate their president/king whatever because of
what he did in the past, but that's not a reason to loose it on Libya, with
some racist arguments I read here, just because they modified the way we see
the domain rulings :)

~~~
dotBen
I agree.

I wonder what the currently owners of art.ly think about the statement?

So basically the domain registry of their domain don't really want them to own
it (having already sold it to them) and would rather they had it back and
could sell it to a local company.

!

------
tptacek
Who cares what they say? This is an organization run in a nation state without
the rule of law. There is _no governing organization you can appeal to_ to
ensure their decisionmaking is consistent. The rule that allocated them ".ly"
is (essentially) ISO 3166-1, and ISO 3166-1 does not care about you, your
business, or your rights. Neither, it should go without saying, does Libya.

~~~
jacquesm
> This is an organization run in a nation state without the rule of law.

Libya actually has a pretty modern legal system (other than being based on
'Sharia' law that is), with several levels of appeal possible including a
supreme court.

> There is no governing organization you can appeal to to ensure their
> decisionmaking is consistent.

Actually, there is:

This Regulation shall be interpreted and construed under Libyan Law.

So you could appeal to the Libyan courts. As they say though, good luck with
that, but that would be something to do before making the claim that this was
unlawful.

~~~
tptacek
That doesn't mean anything. The "Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab
Jamahiriya" outlawed political parties 40 years ago and has been ruled by
Muammar Gaddafi ever since. The Iraqi Baath party could have made the same
legal process claims, while leaving out the fact that you'd be slowly boiled
in a vat of oil if you attempted to avail yourself of that process.

We need to stop kidding ourselves. Just because it's on the Internet doesn't
make it not real: people buying .ly names are doing business with one of the
world's great dictatorships. Whether or not that's bad ethically, it sure is a
dubious business decision.

~~~
jacquesm
> That doesn't mean anything. The "Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab
> Jamahiriya" outlawed political parties 40 years ago and has been ruled by
> Muammar Gaddafi ever since.

Agreed, but you'd have to give them the benefit of the doubt before
pronouncing judgment, otherwise you can't make that statement. After their
courts have let you down you could make the case that you've been duped but
given the terms-of-service I would not find it totally incredible if the
courts sided with the NIC for valid reasons.

> The Iraqi Baath party could have made the same legal process claims, while
> leaving out the fact that you'd be slowly boiled in a vat of oil if you
> attempted to avail yourself of that process.

Unlikely in this case, and we're discussing Libya, not Iraq before the removal
of Saddam Hussain & his cronies.

> We need to stop kidding ourselves. Just because it's on the Internet doesn't
> make it not real: people buying .ly names are doing business with one of the
> world's great dictatorships.

As dictatorships come, Libya is fairly small fry. Just like in former Iraq -
which we're still not discussing ;) - life for most Libyans is at a perfectly
acceptable standard for the region, and they are not so upset about these
things that they seem to be inclined to overthrow their government any time
soon.

> Whether or not that's bad ethically, it sure is a dubious business decision.

Personally I would not do business with a .ly registrar exactly because I
would not want to put my business at risk like that, but _also_ because doing
so effectively sustains a regime that I feel no sympathy for. I don't think
that any money sent to the .ly registrars will end up to benefit the Libyan
population in general, but most likely will end up in a few very select
pockets or to do stuff that I do not want to be associated with.

~~~
tptacek
I don't have to give them the benefit of the doubt. It would in fact be stupid
to do so. The Libyan government does far, far worse things than capriciously
turning off domains on a regular basis. That logic is repellent.

We need to stop kidding ourselves. _.ly really is Libya._ I don't support
bombing them, or anything crazy like that, but doing business with them is
lunacy.

~~~
jacquesm
> I don't have to give them the benefit of the doubt. It would in fact be
> stupid to do so.

So in any altercation between a westerner and the Libyan government the Libyan
government is automatically at fault?

> The Libyan government does far, far worse things than capriciously turning
> off domains on a regular basis.

Agreed.

> That logic is repellent.

No, that's just not descending to their level because I disagree with their
politics.

> We need to stop kidding ourselves. .ly really is Libya. I don't support
> bombing them, or anything crazy like that, but doing business with them is
> lunacy.

That's up to every individual to make that choice, I would advise against it
but those that do have made their bed and should lie in it rather than
complain.

~~~
tptacek
<http://j.mp/cruhgd>

------
chasers
Some really good points about this whole fiasco here --> [http://saint-
rebel.com/2010/10/06/feigned-outrage-ly-domains...](http://saint-
rebel.com/2010/10/06/feigned-outrage-ly-domains-are-fine-just-respect-the-
tos/)

------
philwelch
The vb.ly story reminds me of when Christmas Island shut down goatse.cx
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goatse.cx#Domain_suspension_and...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goatse.cx#Domain_suspension_and_sale)).

~~~
nkassis
I think in this case they did good to all of humanity by removing it ;p ( I
used to think free speech was above all until I forgot my account log in for 5
mintues once at work and someone wrote a script that pulled up firefox and
goatse every 5 minutes ;p)

------
dotBen
We've released a response to NIC.ly's statement, available at
[http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/2010/10/our-response-to-nic-
lys-...](http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/2010/10/our-response-to-nic-lys-
statement-on-the-vb-ly-domain-deletion/)

------
bananaandapple
You simply deserved to loose that domain. The lybian tld has their own set
rules, you didn't obey to their TOS, so you loose your domain. If they
contacted you or not, is completely irrelevant.

And I guess that they did contact you, but if you would acknowledge it now, it
would come out that you were lying big from the start.

------
joelhaasnoot
Communication, communication, communication... Read your 'technical contact'
email!

~~~
dotBen
um no, spin spin spin...

see my thread above <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1772206>

------
jrockway
I'm offended that NIC.LY would use the expression "sex positive". It should be
shut down.

(Incidentally, paranoia about my domain being killed is why I have my real
contact information in my .us registration. NIC.* registrars seem to be super-
strict about their registration policies.)

------
lvh
Appears to be down for me.

~~~
ErrantX
Keep trying now and again; it seems to come and go. Just in case here is the
current text:

NIC.ly rules and regulations were set by the local Libyan internet community
(in accordance with best practices for ccTLDs) to reflect it’s identity and
content. It’s a bottom up module in which the Community’s feedback, opinions
and remarks are taken into decision-making consideration, and it is our duty
to uphold these rules and regulations to serve the better interests of the
community we represent.

In reference to the vb.ly incident: the domain’s purpose (proclaimed by its
registrants themselves) was to serve as a ‘sex friendly URL shortener’, mainly
for adult uses. This means that vb.ly had a policy different than the other
URL shorteners, not using filters and encouraging the use of this service for
creating links to adult sites and other “NSFW” links, thus placing vb.ly by
definition in the porn/adult site category. This use was deemed as
unacceptable by our local internet community, regardless of whether or not the
site hosts adult material or redirects traffic to 3rd party sites

Contrary to vb.ly’s claims, they were contacted on numerous occasions to
investigate these concerns, and over the course of these contacts vb.ly has
ignored our efforts and even changed their contact numbers.

When our repeated warnings were ignored, and after over 3 weeks of failed
attempts to contact the owners of vb.ly, NIC.ly had no alternative but to
apply its regulations that clearly state that it reserves the right to suspend
or remove a .ly domain name in violation of rules and regulations. The domain
has also been excluded from future registrations so that no other entity
(local or abroad) can re-register it.

As to the decision to keep the registration of domain names shorter than 4
symbols long under .ly only for entities with a local Libyan presence, this
comes in accordance with NIC.ly’s concern that the rise in popularity of URL
shorteners from abroad taking up all these names has deprived locals of their
right to register the important 3 letter abbreviations of their various
businesses and interests. We as a Registry would prefer seeing art.ly used for
a website about Libyan art for instance, or lda.ly used by the Libyan De-
mining Association, rather than adding more URL shorteners under our National
TLD. For over 5 years, we as a Libyan Registry recognized by ICANN have been
open for domain name registrations from all around the Globe, and we pride
ourselves on being the online destination of thousands of domain names from
all over the World. Over this span of time never once have we abused the trust
invested in us by the Global internet community, nor have we ever taken
advantage of having an attractive extension like ‘.ly’. Only when our
Community's rules and regulations were compromised was when we had to act.

------
konad
Now they are offline too, that'll learn 'em

------
magamiako
Sorry dotBen, but you're being a whiney crybaby on here. OH NO, LIBYAN
GOVERNMENT DOESN'T RESPECT US RULES!

No shit...

Move on from it. Otherwise go join a political group that fights for women's
rights in Libya.

