
Could Egypt Happen Here? Obama's Internet "Kill Switch" - miraj
http://www.fastcompany.com/1721753/egypt-internet-kill-switch
======
jacquesm
'Egypt' won't happen in the US because the US is not Egypt, does not have
Egypts standard of life for a very large portion of the population, does not
have Egypts unique elements of history and does not have a repressive
dictatorship propped up by foreign funds.

Having the internet shut down for the local population? I don't see it
happening though as I wrote in an earlier thread I think it would be trivial
and I'm sure they have a playbook on exactly how to do it that gets kept up-
to-date, 'just in case'. But I think even the government does not have a clue
as to what circumstances would prompt them to trigger this based on the
current state of affairs. I just think that they find it hard to live with the
idea that if TSHTF that they have something that might potentially be hard to
control. Think of it as a control issue, not something with immediate
applicability. A kill switch is a pretty blunt instrument of control, I'm sure
the powers that be can come up with more subtle ways of dealing with issues
like that.

Americans are no longer capable of revolution, this goes for any country in
the world where the standard of living is high enough and people are for the
most part happy with their lives including Western Europe and Australia. There
simply isn't enough reason to do it, not enough people with nothing left to
lose. There are simply no issues important enough to people any more to get
out of their comfy chairs and go on to the streets. Witness what happened in
France with the civil unrest there a few years ago, it was the kids with
nothing left to lose that vented their anger, but they were (and continue to
be) only a small fraction of the total population.

If a dictator should come to power (which you can never really rule out, even
in a democracy) then that may change but it won't change overnight. It took 30
years for Egypt to get to that stage, it took more than 40 years in the former
East Block countries.

Revolutions happen when the pot boils over, it has to be on the fire for a
long long time gathering pressure and heat before that happens.

Ironically, if a kill switch were implemented _and_ triggered the masses no
longer having access to facebook and entertainment might be just enough reason
for them to get out on the streets.

~~~
clistctrl
Not that I disagree with you, but I think its healthy to remember that you,
and me live in a world that is somewhat isolated. I live in Boston, and travel
to San Francisco quite often. Life is great here, its really difficult to see
how the recession is actually having an impact. However when I fly home (I
grew up in an industrial town in Wisconsin) I see a VERY different picture.
There are many people in the US who are not comfortable with their standard of
living. Just like France we also have a large portion of youth that has
nothing to loose. We also have a large workforce that used to work in
factories. These people didn't disappear when we transitioned their jobs. The
standard point of view in capitalism is to say "well now they have the
opportunity to move on to better jobs" which would be true if it was possible
to take a person who pulled a lever all day, and teach him to program a
computer... but that is very rarely true. Instead they end up getting
"downgraded" instead of working in a factory making $20/hr they're now working
in Walmart making $10/hr... or less. Why and how does not matter to this group
of people, what does matter is that they used to live a middle class
comfortable life, and now they don't.

Please don't confuse my statements with the idea that i'm saying there's going
to be a 'revolution'. What i'm saying is the pot is already hot, and has been
for a while.

Personally I think the big barrier stopping people from joining the momentum
from Tunisia is that a clear end goal is not obvious the way it is in a
country with a cruel dictator. However once Glenn Beck, or some other idiot
gives them one (whether it is in their interests or not)... its hard to say
nothing will happen.

~~~
jeromec
I'm glad you pointed this out, as I was going to express something similar. I
don't know that I would classify the pot as "hot", but at the same time I'm
glad Jacques tempered his opinion with the following:

 _If a dictator should come to power (which you can never really rule out,
even in a democracy) then that may change but it won't change overnight._

I completely agree with that, as did Thomas Jefferson apparently:

 _The price of freedom is eternal vigilance._

and

 _The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of
patriots and tyrants._

Under the Bush administration we got the Patriot Act, warrant-less wiretaps,
torture, and the repeal of habeas corpus (the right to due process which had
to be reversed by the Supreme Court). There was a thread before on HN about
some new Orwellian syle video from the DHS featuring Secretary Napolitano
admonishing shoppers at checkouts in Walmarts to keep on the lookout for
anything suspicious. At airports we are now forced to either be exposed to a
radiation laden scan of our body, or intrusive physical pat down whenever we
take a flight, no matter that we've done nothing wrong. Indeed, you risk being
arrested [1] with this direct challenge to the Fourth Amendment which guards
against unreasonable searches and seizures if you don't submit to it.

So while I agree with Jacques that Americans are much farther from any revolt
than the people of Tunisia or Egypt, and I wouldn't say there is a pot which
is boiling, or maybe even hot, I also think it's a mistake to imagine there is
no pot at all.

[1] <http://noblasters.com/post/1650102322/my-tsa-encounter>

------
jbooth
I love how "A bill proposed in the Senate", introduced by Joe Lieberman who
personally doesn't get along with Obama became "Obama's Internet 'Kill
Switch'". Good job by that editor on the headline.

~~~
ajays
I came here to say the same thing.

Folks, we can do without hyperbole on HN. Please keep your BS biases out, and
just lay out the facts. The readers are smart enough to decide for themselves.

------
zacharypinter
I very much doubt the U.S. would turn off the internet, as doing so would
cannibalize the economy.

It seems far more likely that the government would mandate an I.D. system to
track everything we do online than simply turn everything off.

~~~
ciaogiorno
And IPv6 addresses could provide just that I.D. system.

Why aren't companies like Google, Amazon, and Facebook lobbying against this?
It seems they stand to lose the most is such a thing were used.

~~~
zoomzoom
Is this true? Is it any different than IPv4?

Obviously a permanent static address would have tracking value, but proxies
and networking would seem to have equal obfuscation capability...

------
motters
Though there are doubts expressed that anything comparable to what happened in
Egypt could also occur in the US, it would be wise for Americans to reject
giving the president such powers. The idea that one person can block the
communications of millions of citizens, for reasons of their own choosing, is
fundamentally undemocratic.

------
joshfraser
I think a lot of bills like this are designed to stretch our perception of
what is appropriate action for our government to take. The bill might never
pass, but now that we think it's possible lesser control measures won't feel
so bad in comparison. Notice how our attention has already been shifted from
the targeted shutting down of music sharing sites to this potential kill
switch. I would argue that the targeted shutdowns are more dangerous because
they can slip in largely unnoticed by the general population. The government
isn't stupid enough to shut down our internet in America, but it provides a
great distraction while they give themselves more targeted power to take out
sites they don't like. I think we all suspect our government would kill
Wikileaks if they could and they've already shown that they have no regard for
"due process" in taking out RIAA's opponents.

