
NYC Man Earns $55,000 A Year Peddling Candy On Subway - lchengify
http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2011/12/02/nyc-man-earns-55-000-a-year-peddling-candy-on-the-subway/
======
keiferski
Somehow, I feel like those being critical are posting from a SF coffeeshop,
sipping a $5 latte, planning the next social-deals-crowd-sourced "startup".

The man is more of an entrepreneur than most of the people on this site,
myself included. What makes it even more inspiring is that he didn't have a
150k offer from Google to fall back on.

~~~
jcc80
Some of the comments here are really disappointing. Can't believe some people
here are focusing on the fact that it's illegal to sell candy on the subway
instead of this guys' hustle and trying to drag him down. Good to see the
worlds current/future patent trolls and paper pushers have found HN in time to
rip on someone making his own way.

~~~
PissedOffHNer
You'd think hacker news members, wantreprenuers from all over the world, would
applaud his effort... I was so upset over the many comments below. I typed up
a rant. But went back and re-read everything just to try to see it from
everyone's point of view.

I have some questions for you guys:

\- If it were 2 little white girls selling cookies to save up to go to college
I personally believe the comments below would have a completely different
tone. But because it's a black guy named "Tracks" wearing $300 shoes selling
candy the community looks down on it... Yes, I pulled the race card, it's the
perfect time for it, and I'm a pasty ass white kid. I laugh at "nigga" jokes
like everyone else but this is just the perfect example of subtle racism,
something it took my black friends a long time to explain to me.

Just a few weeks ago, didn't hacker news have a link on the front page about
how kids (white county kids) across the US are being handed hundred dollar
fines for operating Lemonade stands without $400 food permits. Lemonade stands
are also "illegal".

THIS is the problem with America, it's turning into Anti-Business Europe.
Selling anything requires 12 pounds of permits and licenses. THIS is what is
slowly killing the US, THIS is what Steve Jobs was talking about when he
complained to the President that building factories in the USA is so much
harder than in China.

"Selling on the subway is annoying."

\- Excuse me but, what the fuck are you doing on the subway that is so god
damn important that you can't be snapped out of your "state of zen" and hear
someone ask "anyone want candy, candy for $2" for 5-10 seconds max. The loud
ass subway, underground, with no view, screeching and bumping and vibrating
along. And the black guy selling candy is what's bothering you?! Again... If
it were 2 little white girls selling cookies you'd smile and wish there were
more little entrepreneurs like them in the world.

If it were "annoying" people wouldn't be giving him 50 thousand dollars a
year. They wouldn't be buying his candy.

"It's illegal:"

\- Says who? Law and ethics are 2 different things. In the US it's illegal to
download media for personal use, in Switzerland it's not. In the US the
drinking age is 21, in other countries it's 16. Who is "right"? Who is
"correct"? So many laws are made by rich men to benefit rich men that over the
decades our middle class has shrunki, the richest country in the world is in
debt, and our jobs are being lost overseas. The Rich are getting richer, the
poor getting poorer. This is what happens when well established rich men use
the "Law" to keep everyone else down while making themselves untouchable.
Making everything "illegal". Selling candy on the subway is not allowed,
selling lemonade in front of your house is not allowed. Where the fuck can I
go to make a living? The jobs are all gone too.

HOLD ON, is the Subway not public grounds? Do we not pay taxes for public
transportation, pay again to use it, and we still can't sell shit there?! So I
can't sell lemonade in my own fucking front yard, I can't sell candy on my own
fucking public land. Do you see where I'm going with this...

Not only that but city planning, government policies, and the fact that only
50 years ago blacks weren't allows to shit and piss in the same bathrooms as
whites. All these policies together have created unequal societies, segregated
cities, ghettos, and deprived groups of people of all color from a future.
This is the equivalent of complaining about Native Americans setting up
TeePees in Public Parks because it's illegal. There's a time to fuck the law
and a time to follow it.

Time after time I see posts on hacker news about white men doing semi-illegal
things and making big bucks out of it. This time a black dude did it and we
all piss on him. Glad to see racism is alive and well, even in entrepreneurs.
I hope you all come back in your next lives as Gay Black Jews living in a
parallel universe where it's the 1800s.

~~~
verroq
Nope. I see this is a throwaway because you don't feel like taking a karma dip
(at least you don't lose your internet points).

Your points boil down to this.

1\. I'm upset because other people don't feel the same way as me

2\. Closing down/fining illegal shops because they don't have the proper
permits is killing America.

3\. Selling in the subway is not annoying, for me

4\. It's ok to ignore laws because some laws are minor and mostly ignored
(i.e. jaywalking) and because other countries have different laws on the same
subject.

5\. If you don't agree with me you are a racist.

Oh and the whole reason we don't see it the same way as "two white girls
selling things for college" is because the man is not trying to go to college.
If it was "two black girls selling things for college" that would be
comparable. He is exploiting his race in order for people buy his candy.

>"If you don't spend a dollar with me, either you don't have it or you're a
hater," he's concluded."

How is this a respectable business model?

~~~
PissedOffHNer
But your point boils down to this: \- Follow the rules regardless of them
being unfair or illogical. \- Everyone needs to be a good little rule follower
just like me.

Who are you trying to impress?

\- We've all illegally downloaded software to try it out.

\- We've all hauled ass past the speed limit

\- We've all jaywalked.

\- We've all bought thousands of dollars of products online and NOT paid the
sales tax on it like it is required by law.

\- We've all taken money under the table at some point without keeping track
of it to see if we have taken enough to qualify for paying taxes on it.

\- We've all slowly driven past a stop sign instead of fully coming to a stop.

\- We've all BROKEN rules. Because RULES are stupid. Literally, they don't
look at one's specific situation or view point, rules are blanketed over
everyone. Despite them being dumb as fuck like "speed limits". Study after
study shows that when speed limits are removed, accidents go down. (State
revenue from tickets does too).

Did you know that in many cities you have to pay $25 and fill out a form to
get a permit to have a fucking Yard Sale. No body even knows, or follows it,
but it's a law.

These ridiculous rules have created imbalances in our society.
People/businesses who HAVE money can easily apply for permits and licenses and
continue making MORE money. PEOPLE who NEED money can't afford these things.

"Well that's spam" some people say. And what the fuck is ADVERTISING
(billboard, junk mail, posters)? State sponsored spam. So rich people can spam
and make money but poor people can't?! Those with money can advertise on
billboards on the side of highways that distract you from driving, they can
advertise on TV commercials, they can advertise using Junk mail which cannot
be stopped because there's no "do not mail" list. People with money are
allowed to piss us all off. But when those who don't have money try to
advertise using plastic signs on the side of public roads, that's "illegal"
and they get taken down within 24 hours by the city. There's no place for
people without money to get free advertising or a place for them to sell their
products or services. Hell, we can't even start businesses in our own homes
because of zoning laws.

And we're going to sit here and talk about rules... Fuck the rules.

~~~
verroq
Whether you see the "no selling in the subway" law as pointless or not depends
entirely on your opinion on the matter. Not everyone thinks the same way.

------
gerggerg
Selling shit on the subway is illegal. The reason this man is capable of
making a profit is because he has almost no competition. It has nothing to do
with entrepreneurship, being a good salesman, having a good idea, or really
anything positive other than the giving spirit of some New Yorkers. He's
milking a system in which he exists illegally and if it were actually legal to
sell shit on the subway, the subway would be significantly less tolerable and
he wouldn't be able to come close to making a good living.

~~~
joelrunyon
Why is it okay to break the rules in the tech world but if you do it in the
NYC subway, it's cheating.

Entrepreneurship is all about breaking the rules, making your own way and
making things happen.

The guy probably didn't have a lot set up for him in life, so instead of
feeling sorry for himself, he put on his shoes, grabbed his box of candy and
made it happen.

Just because he's exercising his entrepreneurial spirit by doing something
that's not as sexy as programming the next facebook/twitter/social
"disruption" doesn't mean his attitude shouldn't be applauded.

Give the guy some credit.

~~~
jorgecastillo
>Entrepreneurship is all about breaking the rules, making your own way and
making things happen.

Braking the rules is ok, braking the laws is not. So if I understand, you
would consider the people, that are in the drug business, as entrepreneurs?
Illegal activities are highly profitable, precisely because most people, will
not participate in them, and this distorts the market.

~~~
burgerbrain
Why _exactly_ is breaking the laws not ok in the general case?

And in this particular case, why isn't it ok? He is _clearly_ providing a
service that the people are demanding.

~~~
RockyMcNuts
Have you been on the subway when a peddler, beggar, dance troupe comes through
with a loud spiel?

It's more like the subway version of spam.

 _Clearly_ lots of people are demanding spam, right?

He's providing a service that a few people* are demanding, and most people
find annoying.

Plus evading sales tax, creating litter, reducing rent from the legit
concessionnaire, etc. If that's OK, why stop there, why shouldn't I set up a
candy stand in the movie theater?

*the ones who take up one seat for each butt-cheek

~~~
bd_at_rivenhill
I've lived in New York, and it's just a fact of life on the subway, kind of
like the way that it stinks on hot summer days. I'd rather that the police and
the court system spend their resources on real crimes because I can always
ignore these guys and the panhandlers while I read my book in peace.

~~~
gerggerg
And that is why it's tolerated to a certain threshold. Thankfully (for us and
him) we're still below the threshold. But if more people start selling candy
on the subway you can bet you'd be happy they did something about it. And this
dude would be making significantly less money.

------
arkitaip
"While it might frustrate some to learn that the man who hectors subway riders
to buy a granola bar is making more money than many of those commuters, there
is something impressive about Tracks' entrepreneurship."

Haters gonna hate. Love this guy and his positive attitude.

~~~
Retric
The annoying thing is not how much money he makes but how much he annoys
people. IMO, it's basically the same thing as short changing people and
pocketing that money. A few cents or a few seconds of time is not going to
make or break someone but it's still a net drain. Just because your not
robbing houses or kidnapping people does not mean it's ok.

~~~
burgerbrain
Why is it when the discussion is about somebody selling candy on the subway
certain peoples minds seem to be turning to violent crime, but when you hear
about people with unlicensed lemon-aid stands we don't seem to see this?

To put it bluntly, I suspect it has something to do with the demographic
people associate both of these (rather identical) businesses.

~~~
jessedhillon
That's not putting it bluntly.

If you were blunt you would say that people are suggesting that his
alternative occupations would have been burglary or drug dealing because he's
black, and they are fools. And you would have been right.

~~~
burgerbrain
That is a tad to blunt for my tastes, but yes. Though I'm trying to allow some
room for people unconsciously thinking like this, unintentionally.

------
dhyasama
This guy is a jerk. Last week he called my wife a white bitch because she
didn't buy any candy. I respect the hustle but not the man.

~~~
marquis
This may be the most relevant post in this entire thread.

------
mapster
In any major city, one is bombarded with intrusive marketing (commercials,
neon signs, think of Times Square). On the NYC subways there are plenty of
obnoxious people, many asking for outright handouts. Tracks is a small time
entrepreneur - he embodies the successful aspects of a start-up: great
elevator pitch, asks for your money, and shows up to do it again the next day.
I wish him much success.

------
lusr
55K revenue? What were his actual profits? Does he pay taxes? Respect to the
guy for making a living and taking care of his family, but the piece makes him
out to be making a killing when I suspect the reality isn't that inspiring.

~~~
joelrunyon
55k is a lot better than nothing.

I don't think it makes any indication of whether he's making a "killing" or
not. The only thing that can indicate that is the $300 kicks, which are more
likely to be his personal indulgence than reflective of everything.

The amount of money he makes isn't what's inspiring. What's inspiring is the
fact that he had two choices - wait for something good to happen to him and
blame others or take responsibility for things and make them happen by
himself. Thats what's inspiring.

~~~
miahi
If you spend every day walking around, you want the most comfortable shoes
your money can buy.

------
joelrunyon
I think this is the epitome of entrepreneurship --> "I've been doing this
since I was 11. Not because I had to do it, but because I chose to do
it...because there's nothing better than your own money."

Well said.

------
thejteam
Is this legal on the NYC subway? On the DC metro, eating is forbidden and
enforced. I remember a story from years back about a little girl being led
away in handcuffs for eating a few french fries. Hopefully this story won't
get him into too much trouble.

And hopefully it won't spawn too many copycats either. The last thing this guy
(not too mention the other riders) need is for the number of people peddling
sugar to multiply.

~~~
DanBC
Wow.

([http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=94999&page=1](http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=94999&page=1))

> *Seventh-grader Ansche Hedgepeth was handcuffed, booked and fingerprinted
> for eating French fries in a northwest Washington subway station.

12 years old?

~~~
Cushman
They take it seriously. In fairness, it works-- the DC subway system is way
cleaner than NYC. The good side of fascism, I guess.

~~~
jrockway
On the other hand, the NYC system is not particularly dirty. I'm not from NYC
and so haven't ridden the subway a lot, but I've never seen a single seat
unusable because of filth. That shiny plastic stays pretty clean.

------
pud
I think the writer heard the subject's rap lyrics wrong. I believe he's
saying:

"I do what I gotta do, just to stay on my feet. I'm flipping them sweets, I
sell cavities, the s* will leave a hole in your teeth."

That makes more sense than the article's last line, "and s* believer, hole in
your teeth."

~~~
13rules
Came here to post the same thing ... he definitely said "this s __t will leave
a hole in your teeth"

------
zecho
Why sell candy on the subway, when you can literally pan for gold in NYC?
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxG8HBy3hpk>

------
alapshah
Hate to say it but it sort of aggravated me that at the end of the video he
says "This what y'all buyin me, $300 sneakers. I stay fly from head to toe."

When I think about it, it shouldn't, he's just a businessman making money and
spending it as he wants, but for some reason it was irksome... maybe because
some people buy over pity and it isn't quite legal what he's doing

~~~
jcc80
Maybe you don't value $300 sneakers and see it as wasteful? I do. But, I'm
sure this guy would shake his head at someone buying a $2,000 laptop (or
something like that) when there is one for $1,000 that is "just as good."

~~~
clarkevans
I don't know. Those shoes look awfully comfortable and make him look clean.
Perhaps they are a very valid business expense and well worth the money:
Perhaps he did A/B tests with different shoe styles and manufactures? Perhaps
the shoes are a topic of conversation during the sale that he can switch to
and then back to close a deal? Perhaps if his feet don't hurt after 11h and
he's able to hustle that one more hour, the shoes pay for themselves.

------
delwin
I wonder if he A/B tests with pretzels on the weekends.

~~~
angstrom
Funny, I know what A/B testing is, but I had to read this twice. I thought you
were referring to the A & B trains which converge with the D train track
between 59th and 145th.

------
kingkawn
a family member of mine supports himself playing cello in the subway about 3
hours a day five days a week.

~~~
libria
That's impressive. Violinist Joshua Bell could only garner up $32 during DC's
rush hour:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myq8upzJDJc&t=18s](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myq8upzJDJc&t=18s)

~~~
kingkawn
My brother says that playing in a high traffic place like that is usually less
successful than on the platforms, because nobody has to stop. He often plays
on the platforms that have trains coming opposite directions on either side,
giving him a captive audience for a few minutes at a time.

------
mattblalock
The comments on this thread make me want to never come here again...

~~~
BrandonM
To be fair, it's only 3 or 4 people in the thread who appear to be of the
authoritarian "do what the government says and get off my lawn" mindset. It
just shows how easy it is for a vocal minority to dominate a discussion.

------
10dpd
I really hope this article doesn't create a gold rush where the subway will
become inundated with people trying to make a quick buck...almost like Silicon
Valley :)

------
wyclif
I don't eat candy, because I plan on keeping my teeth as long as possible. I
admire this guy's entrepreneurship and hustle, though.

------
bcl
Is $55k enough to actually live in NYC?

~~~
ImprovedSilence
When you think about it, $55k in cash is comparable to a $70k taxable income.

~~~
cdh
Except that the $55k in cash is also taxable income, especially now that he's
told the entire world about it.

------
jccodez
I hope he is paying taxes on that money. He just made a public statement of
earned income.

~~~
MengYuanLong
Ooh, very true. Plus, this entire thread seems rather emotionally split
between support and derision. I wonder if he claims benefits of low income
while pocketing his earnings from the sales.

While this story could serve as advertising and up his revenue, it might also
be a bit of a curse for him if the IRS wants to cause some extra hassle.

------
inspiredworlds
I love this guy's hustle. He knows his products inside out, his margins and
his markets.

------
AJ007
Is it just me or does it seem a little strange that this story is on the top
of hacker news?

------
erhanerdogan
He needs to be Square'd!

------
klbarry
I used to sing on the subway with a friend - we made about $200 between us for
singing until our voices started to fail (6 hours). This lasted the summer
between high school and college. We could have made 36,000 yearly without tax
each if we were desperate.

~~~
jessedhillon
Watch out. Some HNer is right now investigating whether or not you're allowed
to sing on the subway.

~~~
forensic
Anyone who rides the subway likely knows that it's against transit rules to
make loud noise. You don't need to look it up. These rules are there for good
reasons. Bold people can sometimes get away with making money by breaking law
but we don't hav to support them just because they a successful.

~~~
rdouble
It is explicitly legal to perform non-amplified music in the subway.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
Could you point to where it is explicitly stated that this is so, remembering
that this is performing music for profit.

Is this covering the US copyright position too?

In the UK, if they're performing on the street they'd need a street
performance license (local authority) and a music license to cover the
copyright of the writers (from PRS). You might need a second license if you
were imitating a particular performance (from PPL).

~~~
rdouble
You can't sell CDs. Obviously you cannot sell tickets to your performance. You
can collect donations.

<http://www.citylore.org/citylore_resources-guide.html>

~~~
pbhjpbhj
From your link " _not performing in subway cars_ " is given explicitly as one
of the Government regulations that accords with the First Amendment.

This appears to contradict the spirit of your comment if not the letter. The
GP stating that singing wasn't allowed "on the subway" and you replying that
it explicitly was allowed "in the subway". I can see how you can both be right
and individually agree with your link too though so the above is really just
for clarity.

------
lclaude01
A business is a business ...a product or a service(candy), a distribution
channel (subway), customers (subway riders) and profit margin... that is it!

How many of you (on HN) have done that? the answer can be surprising.

Before thinking about making millions $$$ on a startup maybe try to run a
lemonade stand this weekend.

Non-Technical co-founder is a big +

~~~
rokhayakebe
Thank you. I can guarantee you that most people's startup do not make
$55k/year.

------
portentint
This guy is selling through pure hustle. I find it hard to criticize him when
he's working his ass off, every day, to earn a buck for his family. He's not
mugging anyone. He's not stealing. He's not, in fact, doing any harm at all.

I bet most of the people bitching on here would complain even more if this
were a story about how he's collecting welfare.

~~~
gerggerg
Why is it considered a thoughtful argument that he is at least not committing
worse criminal acts?

~~~
nandemo
I suppose it's because the guy is black.

