
GitHub to Remove 'Master' Terminology - akrymski
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2020/06/14/microsoft-owned-coding-site-github-replace-term-master-push/
======
merricksb
Several discussions here in the past few days:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23500093](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23500093)
(138 points/224 comments)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23518123](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23518123)
(127 points/206 comments)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23519813](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23519813)
(44 points/84 comments)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23522859](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23522859)
(15 points/5 comments)

------
ekns
I'd prefer it if things didn't change, including master/slave terminology (the
'master' branch doesn't even have a 'slave' in git...)

Have the words themselves become bad to use? It seems that this is a USA
centric view anyway with its history (and even then it seems ridiculous--why
can't these things be compartmentalised as technical terms?)

Slavery certainly still exists in the world, and has existed in most places at
some point. Should we rename 'slavery' to something else too while we're at
it? Or forget it exists and existed?

Certainly certain terms become antiquated over time, like the vocabulary used
in Emacs (yank/buffer/etc vs cut/window/tab/...), but master/slave doesn't
seem to be there yet.

I wonder if there's some way to counteract this newspeak stuff? I think it's
harmful that these things happen for such frivolous reasons. Does one just
have to be as loud as the minority that drives these things, to counteract it?

~~~
D13Fd
I think companies are just looking for ways to help, and this is what Github
came up with.

I agree it's an odd reason for the change. The word "master" without "slave"
has many meanings, usually but not always when one person or thing controls
another.

It's used for dog owners ("a dog and his master"). A person can be the "master
of their own fate" or a "master of disguise." Seinfeld joked about people
being "masters of their own domain."

All of that said, I don't really mind the result, whatever the reason. I
remember that the name struck me as odd when I first started with Git.

I assumed it came from "master copy," which in media is the copy from which
other copies are made. But that doesn't really fit, in my view, because the
whole point of a master copy is that it doesn't change. In Git the master is
always changing.

The other meanings don't fit either. The "master" branch doesn't really
_control_ anything, it _is_ controlled by the user.

So calling it "master" never really made sense to me. It seems like "primary,"
"main," "central" or a similar word fits better.

~~~
me_me_me
> I think companies are just looking for ways to help, and this is what Github
> came up with.

Help how exactly?

This to me seems like a PR preemptive measure not to be caught in some zealous
virtue signalling.

> So calling it "master" never really made sense to me. It seems like
> "primary," "main," "central" or a similar word fits better.

That was always me feeling too.

------
jeegsy
I am black and I don't think I have ever given a thought to this. While the
change might be well meaning, I truly resent the implications.

Go out into the world and train under-privileged folks on what they would need
to be github employees in future that you would hire without a second thought
independent of special 'diversity' mandates. Do more of that instead of
focusing on trivial bs like master/slave.

~~~
jacknews
Exactly.

'master' as used in git doesn't at all imply 'slave', but instead
'definitive'.

The real problem will not be solved by newspeak naming, but by actually giving
genuinely equal opportunity to everyone, and perhaps more importantly, the
means and environment to take up that opportunity.

------
fen4o
All this 'removed' terminology is double standard. The entire name of the
"git" project is offensive.

From wikipedia [1]

Git is a term of insult with origins in English denoting an unpleasant, silly,
incompetent, annoying, senile, elderly or childish person.

GitHub - hub for gits (persons).

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_(slang)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_\(slang\))

~~~
ojr
master is far more offensive especially in the United States

~~~
cgag
Are you offended the idea of a master key or say, mastering C++? Remastered
albums?

~~~
ithkuil
Researching all that is surely somebody's Master's Theses.

~~~
ojr
more people are offended by the word master than git, I still don’t think it
was a good comparison, also the connotation of Master Theses, mastering C++,
remastered album is also much different.

------
mcv
I've got to admit that "main" makes a lot more sense. It's the main branch
where all commits are collected before getting deployed, it's not a master
that bosses all the other branches around.

~~~
jetrink
You're thinking of the wrong definition of master. Git's master refers to the
primary copy of something from which derivative copies are made. E.g. In
casting, a master is used to form new molds[1]. In audio engineering, a master
tape holds the final mix of a recording[2]. (Incidentally, this is where the
term remastering comes from, because you are creating a new master version.)

1\. [https://www.instructables.com/id/Two-Part-Silicone-
Casting/](https://www.instructables.com/id/Two-Part-Silicone-Casting/) 2\.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastering_(audio)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastering_\(audio\))

~~~
D13Fd
That's where I assumed "master" came from. But it still doesn't fit, because a
master copy is normally static. The master branch in Git is anything but
static.

~~~
loco5niner
> because a master copy is normally static

That depends on the time scale you are considering.

------
haunter
>I had actually started with "default", and was told it might be triggering
for folks in financial trouble? I don't actually have an opinion myself

[https://github.com/git-for-
windows/git/issues/2674#issuecomm...](https://github.com/git-for-
windows/git/issues/2674#issuecomment-640711525)

You can't make this shit up

------
Proziam
I don't really care much about what the branches are named at the end of the
day. However, I do find it concerning that we're so bothered by appearances
that a term of art in multiple industries is being made to appear unsavory
(and considering the general tone of the comments I've seen, it seems that is
also manufactured dissent.)

If we had a master/slave situation going on I could understand an uproar.
However, it's really the 'Master' copy, which basically means 'Original' or
'Source of truth'

I totally agree with Kingh32 from the reddit thread posted by another
commenter below. This whole thing seems like a distraction so we can feel good
about _changing something_ without having to actually solve any hard problems
or make any substantial changes.

------
huhtenberg
2300 comments on /r/programming -

[https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/h8w36t/github_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/h8w36t/github_will_no_longer_use_the_term_master_as/)

------
johnnyfaehell
As long as they don't rename branches silently, I don't really care what
something is called.

------
hashkb
Why not "trunk"? Seems like the obvious choice to me.

* it's a tree structure, trunks are the "main" branches of trees

* trunk was used commonly in svn before git stormed the scene

~~~
multiplegeorges
Yes, this is far more accurate terminology as well. That's something I would
have thought HN would value.

~~~
hashkb
HN is selectively conservative based on, apparently, career length.

------
fraktl
This change means that sufficient nagging on popular social networks can bully
entire companies into submission. Where do we draw the line between technology
and being offended?

The whole notion of "we are doing it to fix things" is a lie. Changing words
that mean something in technology does absolutely nothing to fix the
underlying problem - hatred.

The cheapest way to buy yourself conscience is to sit at home and do
absolutely nothing of value, but to appear as if you "care". This is precisely
what changing terminology does - it buys companies conscience.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this noble cause, I just can't wait to
invest yet more time to fix all the problems caused by naming change. And yes,
there's us who deal with software not working when you rename a branch.
Telling me it was already broken if naming change breaks it - thanks, it
magically makes it go away.

There's a huge number of us who work in maintenance field and we can't
construct or design systems to satisfy every possible great practice out there
- namely, we inherit old, crappy systems that no one wants to deal with and
work on and we make them run.

Changing something that worked under false pretense of doing it for greater
good - while jeopardizing entire jobs because of failing software - has anyone
given it any thought?

Sure, someone you never saw is not offended any more by a naming convention in
a field they never interacted with. But I'll be there, with many of my
coworkers fixing older systems on the fly, praying nothing goes down at the
wrong moment, enabling the ones who depend on that software to do their work.

While I understand the motivation behind this.. let's call it movement - I
can't understand that very little thought has been given to consequences and
to who will suffer because of the changes.

------
philips4350
Also relevant : [http://antirez.com/news/122](http://antirez.com/news/122)

Response from Redis developer regarding master-slave terminology.

------
ceceron
It's just... unnecessary.

BTW I think now, I know why Tom Bombadil didn't appear in the movie!

    
    
        Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow, 
        Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow. 
        None has ever caught him yet, for Tom, he is the MASTER: 
        His songs are stronger songs, and his feet are faster.

------
stunt
I never thought adding colors to emojis were useful. They just added race to
it.

------
ashton314
Where is GitHub's announcement about this? (Does it exist?) I can't find
anything on this and I'd like to know more about what exactly is going to go
down.

------
tantalor
Sounds risky; surely this will break a lot of systems.

How is this rolled out? Are existing repos affected?

Can I keep using "master" if I choose to?

------
jpxw
Absolutely ridiculous.

~~~
whostolemyhat
Why?

~~~
jpxw
Because it’s an unnecessary breaking change.

~~~
there_the_and
It’s not a breaking change.

~~~
king_magic
... uh, yeah, it is.

~~~
there_the_and
Nope. Any third party software that assumes a “master” branch always exists
and is always the main branch was already broken.

~~~
ceceron
It's not broken. It just works under assumptions applicable to the most common
use cases. I know that a software engineer will sneer about dependencies of
this kind, but such assumptions really simplify reality/software/whatever.

And yes, they are a pain in the ass when it comes to changes and that's why
one should be careful with unnecessary changes.

------
grzm
From 2 days ago (138 points, over 200 comments), and yesterday (126 points,
over 200 comments)

------
craig1f
I hate when corporations are like "how can we pretend to care without doing
anything of substance".

I know that some asshole with a fountain pen in a board room came up with this
idea.

------
thimkerbell
Master and servant would be ok I guess.

------
Jimmc414
I'm honestly surprised it has taken this long. I was uncomfortable with the
phrasing back in 99 when studying for my A+ exam.

~~~
mdrachuk
Why?

------
pbz
For those saying that "master" as used in git has nothing to do with
master/slave: Git was made to replace bitkeeper which had (has?) the concepts
of master/slave repositories:

[https://github.com/bitkeeper-
scm/bitkeeper/blob/master/doc/H...](https://github.com/bitkeeper-
scm/bitkeeper/blob/master/doc/HOWTO.ask#L231-L232)

[https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-
list/2019-May/...](https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-
list/2019-May/msg00066.html)

Edit: to those down-voting ... keep hitting the down arrow, maybe reality will
go away and you won't be inconvenienced by it anymore.

