
Security expert calls out Costco and other retailers on bag searches - sunkenvicar
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/costco-retailer-bag-searches-1.5185488
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ghshephard
I'm surprised that the basis of this story wasn't mostly focused on the fact
that Costco is _different_ than other retailers, in that as part of your
membership agreement (anyone who shops at Costco is a member, and, in theory
(and usually practice) must provide evidence of their membership before
entering), have to agree to allow a bag and receipt search on exit.

For normal retailers, no such agreement exists, and in the 20+ years of
dealing with them, I've never once stopped at the courtesy check, and never
once been called on it.

~~~
greedo
Not everyone who shops at Costco is a member. You can shop at their pharmacy
without joining.

~~~
seany
In a lot of locations you can also buy alcohol without a membership.

~~~
crankylinuxuser
I can attest that's the case here in Indiana.

I usually buy alcohol from Sam's Club, since in Indiana its illegal to put any
preconditions on an alcohol license, other than what is required by state law
(21, not being drunk, etc). There's even signs over the Sams alcohol aisles
stating state law.

The door guards aren't told of this, and will make you think that you _must_
be a member of Sams to even enter the store. My opinion: if they want to
maintain exclusivity of a 'walmart', they can ditch the alcohol. Otherwise,
follow the law.

Where I'm from, Costco is 1.2 hours away if no traffic.

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reaperducer
Twice I've had a bad experience shopping or at the check-out stand, and
decided I'd had enough of a particular store so I just kept walking past the
"courtesy" check.

Nobody's ever protested or followed me. If they did, I'd tell them that I paid
for my stuff and my business with their store is complete.

If some day someone presses the point, I hope I'll have the courage to keep on
walking and let them try to send the police to my house to enforce some kind
of receipt check. I'm sure the police will get right on that.

~~~
igetspam
I had some kid stop me, after I'd checked out at a Target. He wanted to see my
receipt and I asked him why. He couldn't really provide an answer without
accusing me of being a thief. I not-so-politely asked him if he was accusing
me of something and let him know that of he wasn't, he needed to walk away. My
wife was angry, embarrassed and proud. Our daughter was barely a year old, so
she won't remember but this is how we'll teach her to always handle situations
like this. Don't let people treat you like a criminal.

~~~
lstamour
Best Buy stations people near the exits to check receipts, as does Wal-Mart
with greeters, and on busy shopping days Best Buy has been known to post signs
saying all receipts will be checked and bags provided at the exits. I don’t
see it as that much of an inconvenience to stand in a line with everyone else
as the receipt and items are checked one last time.

I can’t say it’s effective at catching problems but it probably acts as a good
deterrent on a very busy, crowded day... presumably they’re trying to prevent
someone from skipping the cash registers on their way out...

Canadian Tire, now there’s a terrible shopping experience, security gates make
it nearly impossible to leave without buying something and they still check
your receipts as you leave.

~~~
antonvs
> I don’t see it as that much of an inconvenience to stand in a line with
> everyone else as the receipt and items are checked one last time.

It violates your legal rights though.

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sunkenvicar
I’ve always felt like a criminal when I leave Costco. I am forced under threat
of membership cancellation to show my receipt, cart contents, and bag contents
to an employee.

~~~
jedmeyers
There have been stories about Costco exit check not being about theft at all,
it’s mostly about checking for possible errors or fraud on the part of the
cashier

~~~
masonic
Back when Costco accepted Discover and allowed cash-over on purchases, when I
took cash over, I would be asked by the receipt-checker, "did you get your
$30?". On two separate occasions, I had in fact forgotten. One of those, I was
given the missing cash immediately without question. The other time, the
manager was skeptical but agreed to close and count the drawer, and I received
the $30 immediately after that process.

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joshe
For Costco (in the US) and every other store I just walk past the guards. If
they say something, I just say "no thanks". I decided I'd be happy to just
stand there while they call their manager and then the real police, but I've
never had too. IANAL but they can't detain you if they don't see a crime, much
like a citizen's arrest. In any case if you are calm and polite the downside
isn't that bad for you.

My guess is they are just counting on customers trying to be nice.

From FindLaw:

"Though these laws vary, store owners and their employees generally are
allowed to detain an individual when they have probable cause to suspect
shoplifting. However, any such detention of a suspected shoplifter must be
reasonable in length and manner. Detentions without probable cause, for an
unreasonable amount of time, or in an unreasonable manner may leave the store
open to liability for false imprisonment and possibly other claims.

What constitutes probable cause to suspect shoplifting comes down to case by
case specifics. Mere suspicion typically will not suffice. Most states require
that the store or its employees have evidence which would lead a reasonable
person to believe that shoplifting had occurred or was in progress. If the
store bases its detention of a suspected shoplifter on information from a non-
employee informer, that informer must have a reasonable basis for suspecting
shoplifting." [1]

[1] [https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-
charges/shoplifting.ht...](https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-
charges/shoplifting.html)

~~~
prepend
The risk at Costco isn’t them detaining or calling the police, the risk is
revoking your membership.

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wrs
The official story is the the cart is compared with the receipt to catch
errors more than shoplifting [1]. As far as I can remember ever seeing,
Seattle Costcos just look in the cart, they don’t search personal bags.

[1] [https://www.sfgate.com/living/article/Costco-exit-
greeters-c...](https://www.sfgate.com/living/article/Costco-exit-greeters-
check-receipts-door-13405328.php)

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reaperducer
FTA: "the fact that retailers, by law, aren't allowed to search customers'
bags."

This is a Canadian story. Does anyone know if this is also true elsewhere?

~~~
was_boring
I'm fairly certain that's the case in most of the US. I know when I worked
retail (over a decade ago) we were specifically instructed that if someone
didn't stop to do nothing. The worst case was to follow them and get a license
plate number.

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nimbius
In the United states this has been an issue at Frys electronics and circuit
city, but it really boils down to these two facts:

\- once you pay, and have a receipt, it is _your_ property.

\- guards can only do one of two things: 1. wave you by and tell you to have a
nice day or 2. Detain you for shoplifting.

number 2 gets pretty ugly. If the "loss prevention officer" as theyre called
has video evidence of you stealing, or can prove from witness that you are in
possession of stolen property, they will detain you in standard police style
handcuffs and march you to the office. only the police can legally remove the
handcuffs at this point.

now, if you _havent_ stolen anything, and you are detained, this is unlawful
imprisonment. You hire a lawyer, you go to court, and you count your
settlement cash or push the company to do the unthinkable...not issue a public
apology, but admit wrongdoing.

most companies have shied away from this kind of strongman tactic of
inspecting bags for one reason. its not because customers dont like it, its
because it can put the business at enormous financial and shareholder risk if
it backfires for any reason.

~~~
pessimizer
...and 3. 86 you.

The proportion of innocent people who will turn down a bag check if it means
they can't return to a local retailer I estimate at 0.1%. For any right not to
be searched to be meaningful, I'd have to be a right not to habe a search
requested of you.

Especially since the outcome of refusing a search will likely be a policeman
searching you in the parking lot, or on the side of the road during your
walk/drive home.

~~~
Zak
I have refused such a check at Walmart and the result was an employee trying
to physically obstruct my exit from the store, accusing me of stealing, and
calling me rude names. I left anyway. No cops. No attempt to ban me from the
store.

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dano
I think the past purchase receipt check isn't about the shopper, it's about
the person at the register. It is a check to be sure that, at a cursory level,
everything was charged, and also to ensure that you have goods you paid for.
In electronics stores this was one method of handling inventory shrinkage on
expensive components.

Costco has never made me feel as if I did something wrong, and they found that
I'd forgotten to pick up something from the cage at the service desk.

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Canada
I am fanatically opposed to random, suspicionless searches of personal
property, whether psysical items or data. I don't find Costco offensive. They
make it clear up front that's how it is and they search everyone rather than
discriminating. Also, there are no bags, you take your items out in full view
in an open cart, and after you leave you can do as you please. I don't have to
shop there. Really, the confirmation of items leaving is just part of the
standard checkout process.

Superstore has a no bag policy. Their security may stop you and demand you
check your bag. They accept no liability for losing it. Due to their lack of
offer to accept that liability I've declined to enter their store. I have no
problem with it because we both have our own terms and if they aren't mutually
acceptable we don't have to do business.

~~~
GhostVII
Do you have to comply if Superstore security asks to check your bag? Seems
like the only authority they really have legally is to kick you out of the
store, but I don't know that much about the laws surrounding that.

~~~
Zak
If you want to shop there, yes. They can deny you entry if you want to bring
something inside that they don't want in their store.

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techslave
not many comments yet, but i suppose people don’t understand the point of the
bag search isn’t to reduce customer shoplifting, it’s to prevent employee
theft. employees not ringing items is a super trivial way inventory shrinks.

it’s sad that the pain is borne by the customer. but, on the bright side, it
means prices are lower than they would be otherwise.

~~~
analog31
Indeed. I used to work in a business that was peripherally related to the
security industry, and the conventional wisdom was that shoplifting was
typically either an inside job, or an inside job with a customer as a
confederate. Most of the security products (20+ years ago) were oriented
towards monitoring employees, such as a gadget that superimposed the register
transactions on the security video tape.

That's why big stores have the highest concentration of security cameras above
the checkout lanes, exactly where a customer is least likely to try and hide
something.

