
How many YC companies have been working on mobile startups? - danw

======
nickb
Odds of succeeding in mobile software market are extremely low. You have a
better chance of winning a state lottery than seeing your company create a
mobile soft product that gains wide acceptance. If you're a startup thinking
about going into that area, don't! One of the rules of startups should be:
"Thou shall not waste time trying to write mobile software apps". But, alas,
every month, some people jump into it and some investors who should know
better fund them.

Even with all the VC money, recent history is full of startups that tried and
failed in mobile soft market. Successes are almost non-existent and those that
are still alive, are zombies. Stay away from walled gardens... you cannot win.
You cannot rule somone else's sandbox. The networks are their property and
they hold all the keys. Even if you win the lotto and you enter their network,
they can boot you and lock you out anytime they wish. And they will.

More here:
<http://opengardensblog.futuretext.com/archives/2006/06/opengardens_wal.html>

~~~
jsjenkins168
Tides are changing though. Take a look at VoIP and Wi-Fi equipped cell phones.
The combination scares the HELL out of the carriers. But market pressures are
leaving them no choice but to accept this is what users want.

Then there's WiMAX and the other "last mile" broadband initiatives. Carriers
are no longer the only ones who hold the key.

Its not a matter of if mobile devices will be the viable application
development platform, its a matter of when and how. Startups attacking these
issues and their investors are not wasting their time.

~~~
nickb
"Take a look at VoIP and Wi-Fi equipped cell phones."

Oh, I have. Big problem with those is that WiFi is treated as just another
carrier channel and you still have to figure out how to install your software
on a closed-off cell phone. First of all, carier are very picky about what
they allow on their networks. They will tell you that they do that to protect
their networks from malicious software and to protect their consumers' phones
from draining their batteries too quickly.

"The combination scares the HELL out of the carriers. But market pressures are
leaving them no choice but to accept this is what users want."

They're not scared. They're just playing the embrace, extend and extinguish
strategy. Recent announcement by T-Mobile and UMA support shows what game
their playing: <http://gigaom.com/2007/05/03/t-mobiles-wifi-cellular-summer/>
MetroFi deployments have been a failure so far. Earthlink has stopped
responding to RFCs from cities. They realized that no one is willing to pay
for WiFi. That means that free wifi spots are going to be the norm in the
future. Problem is that these wifi spots are not very reliable and the range
is awful. Look at the popularity of EVDO as an example why (metro)WiFi has
been a disappointment so far.

"Then there's WiMAX and the other "last mile" broadband initiatives. Carriers
are no longer the only ones who hold the key."

You still need spectrum for WiMax. Which startup has $100mm to buy some
spectrum for WiMax?

"Startups attacking these issues and their investors are not wasting their
time."

I'm not saying it's an impossible problem but what I am saying is that your
chances of success are very low indeed. You have a much higher chance of
success by making your software work over open networks such as Internet than
trying to crack a walled garden.

------
busy_beaver
Does anyone know of a reference list for sending _from_ SMS _to_ email on
various carriers/platforms? There are all kinds of resources for sending email
to SMS (generally involving sending it to (phone number)@(carrier
address.com)), but I haven't been able to find a cross-carrier reference for
going the other way.

On my T-Mobile service, for instance, I have to send an SMS to "phone number"
500, with the email address, subject, and body of the message separated by
appropriate delimiters. How does it work on other carriers?

~~~
rokhayakebe
simply "wikipedia" email to sms gateway and you will see all results. This
option is fine, but if you use it too much, you will considered spammer. So if
you are trying to build a lasting business, be careful with it.

~~~
busy_beaver
Thanks, but I'm looking for instructions for going the other way. The
Wikipedia article (at least the one I found) has good information for sending
email _to_ cell phones, but that information is all over the place.

What I need is a comprehensive, cross-carrier list for sending email _from_
cell phones. I've found this information for a few carriers, but it's not
complete by any means. For instance, it looks like Cingular (U.S.) and Rogers
(Canada) use the same method as T-Mobile (U.S.), just using a different number
(500 for T-Mobile, 121 for Cingular, and 0000000000 for Rogers).

I may have to devote a few days to digging out this information by hand from
the carrier web sites. If I do, I'll add it to the Wikipedia article.

------
jsjenkins168
From what we could tell from our brief interview, the YC gang didn't seem very
enthusiastic about installed cell phone apps. They cited the amount of capital
required to strike deals with the carriers as one of the negatives for small
startups. I'm sure they know from first hand experience if this is the case or
not so I wont debate that. My opinion though is that users will install apps
anyway if they want them, regardless of what their contract says.

~~~
jason13
a business model that depends on people explicity breaking their wireless
phone contracts, can only work if there is some negatiating edge, which force
the telecoms to negotatiate with you. I.E. if your product somehow allows the
telecoms to make money, and once the telecoms discover your product makes
money, there has to be some reason its hard for the telecoms to indepandtly
reproduce your product.

------
sharpshoot
loopt, textpayme, heysan, the guys building the open source language for
mobile apps - 4 so far. Any more?

------
leisuresuit
Somebody needs to create a replacement for voicemail. They should be
downloaded to your phone passively. You should be able to browse your
voicemail like text messages, listen to them instantly or delete them. Is
something like that even possible?

~~~
danw
<http://www.spinvox.com/> may be what you're after: _"Service that converts
voicemails into mobile phone SMS text messages and emails"_

~~~
leisuresuit
That's actually pretty cool. But it'd be better if they were just audio files
you could browse through.

------
danw
I'm curious, how many YC companies have been working on mobile apps and how
have they done? Also is anyone else on news.YC working on mobile apps/web?

~~~
gustaf
you mean mobile apps or mobile services?

we (heysan) are building a mobile messaging services, but the guys at
iminlikewithyou have done a great mobile integration too.

~~~
danw
I just checked out the iilwy mobile interface and its slick. It's perfectly
designed for "I'm bored now" momments.

I'm interested in bth 'pure' mobile startups and those who have mobile as just
a feature in a bigger service (dopplr for example).

------
pageman
Thou shall not waste time trying to write mobile software apps". But, alas,
every month, some people jump into it and some investors who should know
better fund them.

twitter and jaiku are mobile startups, right?

and also: <http://paulgraham.com/fixrazr.html>

~~~
nickb
This was directed at me so I shall reply...

Twitter and Jaiku do not _run_ on cell phones. You do not have to install
anything to use them. They use SMS gateway which anyone can setup (if you have
$50K+ a month to pay for the traffic, that is). My post was about apps which
you have to _install_ on a phone! There's a huge difference between the two
approaches.

~~~
danw
I'm counting SMS/MMS/ivr apps (82ask, twitter, radar, 411 free), mobile
apps(jaiku,gmail) and mobile web (cant think of any :S) all as mobile
startups.

I've noticed that most of the popular, succesful mobile startups use just
sms/mms and a counterpart web site currently. Perhaps we shall see them
'evolve' as the years pass as mobile apps and then mobile web become familiar
to 'regular' mobile users. Users will look back at the day you had to remember
text commands and shortcodes just like we now look back at the command prompt.

For now I agree, apps are a pain and you should stick to the most well know
interface of sms when you can. The 'fun' stuff needs apps but the chance of
success is a lot lower currently.

