
A Lighter and Smaller Laptop - kartickv
https://kartick-log.blogspot.com/2016/08/a-lighter-and-smaller-laptop-than-you.html
======
joebergeron
I get that this would be desirable for a lot of people - but not for me. It's
definitely cute, it's definitely portable, but if you can afford the
difference between this and a regular MacBook or something with a similar form
factor, why not just grab the latter? It's not as if you can fit this in a
pocket or something - you'd still need a bag/backpack to carry this around
comfortably, and then why not just use a full-fledged laptop with a larger
screen, arguably easier-to-use pointer. I honestly cannot see myself being as
productive on one of these as I am on my regular old laptop.

Despite this article claiming that this device would have all the capabilities
of a normal laptop, I think this fails in some of the same ways that
smartbooks did in the past. Who -really- wants to do serious work on one of
these instead of a laptop with a normal-sized screen? I can imagine potential
strain on the eyes after a long time working on one of these - not to mention
the seemingly awkward aspect ratio.

To each their own, though.

~~~
ido
I use a Dell xps13 (13" screen in an 11" laptop chassis, almost no bezel).

The (very high DPI) monitor is just barley large enough for comfort. I
wouldn't want to work on anything smaller.

Although there's still a bunch to cut down in thickness & weight.

~~~
Brakenshire
Yes, in my opinion the magazine sizing they show in the picture is close to
the limit most people would want. Cutting the sideways size doesn't give
enough portability benefit to justify losing so much screen space. The
manufacturers have got it right in the direction they have been going, to
increase battery life, decrease the size of the bezel, decrease weight and
thickness, and also improve robustness and waterproofing, so that it is no
more of a hassle to carry around than a magazine, and so that you could read
it like a magazine (or a tablet).

We're not too far away from that. The Macbook, the Surface and the Chromebook
Flip are all in the 0.9-1kg range, now it's incremental progress to reduce
weight to 500-600g, improve fanless performance, and meet all the other goals
above. We'll probably also see commodity pricing of fanless processors through
ARM competition with Core-M, so that the prices of these devices end up closer
to the Chromebook Flip than the Surface.

~~~
ido
Yep. Although even my Skylake i7 xps13 can use better performance (it
subjectively feels slower than a desktop sandy bridges i7, 5 years it's
senior).

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yardie
Sorry, I've already had to give up enough vertical screen space on laptops.
I'm not giving another inch.

And once you add menus, toolbars, startbars, and the hideous white space that
is currently fashionable you have a less useable workspace than an early 00s
era laptop.

I do like the new Surfaces.

~~~
gd2
Good point. I like to see some new method thrown at the UI controls when one
switches to full screen / no toolbars. Possibly stealing swipe type methods
from mobile.

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mark-r
A superwide aspect ratio is impractical for too many things. The audience for
this device would be extremely limited.

I still long for the days of the 4:3 aspect ratio.

~~~
Yetanfou
That should be achievable by adding another screen on top of the one on this
machine, hinged at the top. In closed position the thing could work as a
tablet, in open position the top screen would flip 180° to form the top part
of a large 4:3 screen.

The main body could be set on rails, to slide forwards from under the keyboard
when the thing is used as a laptop (more or less the inverse of what slider
phones did, here the keyboard stays in place while the body slides away from
under it). Add a touchpad to the main body and you'd have a relatively normal
laptop configuration.

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afandian
No need for a touchpoint. I've been waiting for years for a capacitive
trackpad under the surface of the keyboard. Blackberry have done this on their
Passport and it's great. I don't know why others haven't copied the idea.

~~~
stepvhen
How does that work, you run your fingers across the keys lightly or something?

~~~
afandian
Yes. Two modes: default scroll, means you can scroll without obscuring the
screen. Or double tap to get a cursor in a text box.

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open-source-ux
This is not a very practical mini computer. The design has been lopped off
from a larger Mac rather than designed from scratch. The full-sized keyboard
means it's still quite large - certainly not pocket-sized. A more practical
approach would be to have a smaller, pocket computer as a companion to a
larger laptop (or desktop computer) rather than try and make the smaller
laptop the main computer.

Almost 20 years ago (in 1997), a British tech company called Psion released a
small handheld computer called the Psion Series 5. Some images here:

[https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=psion+series+5&source=lnms...](https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=psion+series+5&source=lnms&tbm=isch)

Suprisingly, no one has made something similar (that I know of). I imagine it
could be made today with an e-ink screen for extra long battery life. A pocket
computer like this would be perfectly capable for everyday tasks like email,
wordprocessing and using spreadhseets (but not for video or graphics work).

~~~
kartickv
I think that if a device has a physical keyboard, it should be a full-sized
keyboard. If not, get rid of it and have a smaller, thinner, lighter device.

Having a crappy keyboard is IMO the worst of both worlds — you get neither the
productivity of a full-sized keyboard nor the thin-and-lightness of a
keyboard-less device.

Which is why I chose a full-sized keyboard for this device. Some reviews of
iPad keyboards, for example, begin by suggesting you don't buy one, instead
buying a full-sized keyboard: [http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/the-best-ipad-
keyboard-case...](http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/the-best-ipad-keyboard-
case/#who-shouldnt-buy-this)

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mcphage
Replacing the great Apple trackpads with a trackpoint? No thank you.

~~~
pyre
As much as you say that, I miss TrackPoint from my days sporting a ThinkPad. I
know there are other people that agree. Once you get used to it, it's pretty
nifty. You don't even need to take your hands too far away from your keyboard
position to use it.

~~~
ghaff
I really loved TrackPoints back in the day and despised many of the touchpads
of the time. Some of them I found an exercise in frustration to use at all.
But I like modern trackpads and wouldn't really want to give them up.

I have an Asus Flip Chromebook (10") and for me that's just about perfect
while traveling. I don't really use the flip feature much but it's a nice size
and weight. I actually think if you cut off the trackpad I'd find the typing
position more awkward.

~~~
pyre
> I actually think if you cut off the trackpad I'd find the typing position
> more awkward.

I guess you could picture the TrackPoint like this:
[http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/4796.jpg](http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/4796.jpg)

~~~
ghaff
Right. The OP was basically proposing cutting off all that space below the
keyboard though. The typical Thinkpad design shown in that photo doesn't have
a touchpad but it still has the area that people tend to use as a wrist rest.

------
bane
Not as crazy as it sounds. Just use your smartphone as a trackpad or mouse.
Apps already exist for this.
[http://www.remotemouse.net](http://www.remotemouse.net)
[http://www.guidingtech.com/9586/use-android-as-touchpad-
keyb...](http://www.guidingtech.com/9586/use-android-as-touchpad-keyboard-
remote-control-gpad/)

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andrey_utkin
[http://pyra-handheld.com/](http://pyra-handheld.com/) a coming-soon thing I'm
waiting for.

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oftenwrong
I have wanted what this post is describing for a long time. I have used one of
those small VAIOs, too. I mainly use the keyboard, anyway, so for me the
trackpad on a laptop wastes a lot of space.

~~~
bluedino
Don't those VAIOS only have 600px height screen? Ugh

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GuiA
I have a Sony Vaio P, which as the author mentions is close to what he
describes.

I don't use it much anymore, but it was actually a fun device to own. I
installed ArchLinux on it, with a heavily customized xmonad + plenty of
customly setup apps for email/browsing/basic coding/etc to make it full
keyboard driven (the trackpad/trackpoint was pretty bad on it).

It'd fit in my jacket pocket, and was a nifty little machine to carry around.
The keyboard was way too cramped for long term use, but it was fun to have
around.

~~~
digi_owl
Mah, he seems to conflate the Vaio P (unnamed, just used as a illustration)
with "smartbooks". This while the Vaio P was a netbook (Windows, Intel Atom)
rather than a smartbook (Android/Linux, ARM variants).

Frankly the only thing that seems to hold the smartbook category together is
the use of mobile tech (iirc, the Toshiba AC100 even had a notification light
for texts etc).

The blog posting seems like someone firmly hung up on Apple and wanting a
smaller macbook, rather than a proper illustration of what the rest of the
market has to offer.

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digi_owl
Silly of him to use the Sony Vaio P as a illustration for the smartbook
segment. The Vaio P ran full Windows on an early Intel Atom.

Anyways, it seems the author ignores that netbooks started out not running
Windows, and just lumps them in with laptops because x86 (Atom) and Windows.

Frankly the whole thing just reeks of someone who has developed severe Apple
myopia...

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beachstartup
i've used laptops in that form factor and they're awful.

the current 13" apple form factor is just fine.

look at cell phones from the early 00's -- smaller is NOT the answer.

~~~
kartickv
Did they have full-sized keyboards? Were they high-end devices, like $799, as
opposed to crappy netbooks?

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Foomandoonian
As if the ergonomics of laptops weren't bad enough already. Makes my neck
tense just looking at it.

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brador
We have reached human UI/UX limitations on many tech devices. Our eyes can
only see so much detail, our hands need space to type accurately and
comfortably.

We need improvements in IO between human and machine to reach the next stage
of technological evolution.

~~~
kartickv
Interesting point of view. The full-sized keyboard on this proposed device is
exactly in keeping with that. Smaller, and you can't type productively.

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TapamN
These have been made (with the trackpoint replaced with a touchscreen +
stylus), although you don't see them much nowadays. A examples would be the
NEC MobilePro 900 (on the not-far-from-full-sized-keyboard end of the scale)
and HP Jornada 6xx/7xx series (on the technically-pocket-sized-but-really-
slightly-too-big scale).

I regularly use a Jornada 690, with Linux installed, which I use to do some
programming on when doing things like taking my mom to her doctors
appointments. I don't keep mine in my pocket, but have a small bag, intended
to be attached the front handlebars of a bicycle, that I attach to my belt, to
keep it in.

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charlesism
Apple would get more love if they brought back some larger machines. A 17"
portable would be a nice start.

It's not 2010 anymore, at this point making these devices smaller just hobbles
them, and increases the chance the case will snap in two.

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babbeloski
You could reduce the height of the number row by half, add that vertical space
to the space bar, and turn the spacebar into 3 parts: regular buttons on the
wings where your thumbs rest, and capacitive trackpad in the middle.

Add cellular support and I'll gladly toss my smartphone, which I don't use
anyway. I've always just needed a laptop, I'm terrible with touch screens,
very painful to use. I would carry this around and have a smart watch for
basic text / calling, gps

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bluejekyll
> It would be more portable than the Macbook

Really? So that what, it fits in a purse? I personally (nothing against men
who do) don't carry a purse, but I do have a backpack. And I choose to carry a
full 15" MacBook Pro, because it's powerful and is an ok trade off in terms of
screen size. It's perfect for me.

I know some people hate the weight, and they go for the Air, but for me the
screen size is too small. This argues to make the screen size even smaller! No
thank you!

Get a keyboard for the iPad Mini.

------
equalarrow
I have a 12" Macbook and an 11" Air and I think anything smaller than the Air
is not really practical. I suppose if I rotate my 6s+ I could get something
super tiny, then just attach a bluetooth keyboard..

But, I just don't see the point of going that small. The Macbook and Air are
really light - I don't notice them much at all if I out them in my backpack (a
15" is definitely noticeable).

Anyway, it just seems like a thought exercise.

~~~
bluedino
When the original Air came out in 2009 or whatever, I was amazed that they got
the machine so small. When the 11" came out with the same keyboard I was
amazed again. And seeing the latest MacBook it amazed me again.

Not sure what's coming next but I'm sure I'll be impressed

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SamReidHughes
> And smartbooks ran limited mobile software, not powerful PC software.

They say this right below pictures of the Vaio P series, which ran Windows 7
on a 1600x768 screen. It was good for traveling, where you didn't _want_ to
use your computer but might need some desperate computer use, and it fit in a
jeans pocket if your thighs aren't bloated.

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bluedino
>> The minibook's ultrawide aspect ratio also works better for movies, which
have the same aspect ratio of 21:9

I usually watch movies while working on something else - I don't want the
aspect ratio to match my screen. Stinks when it comes to utilizing the
available screen space

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acd
A similar form factor existed the Psion 5 back in the past.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Series_5](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Series_5)

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tlholaday
Half the battery?

~~~
honkhonkpants
Actually the author has cut essentially 100% of the battery from the MacBook
Air.

~~~
spyder
Not really:

[http://cdn2.macworld.co.uk/cmsdata/reviews/3595594/New-
MacBo...](http://cdn2.macworld.co.uk/cmsdata/reviews/3595594/New-
MacBook-2015-battery.jpg)

From the photo it looks like the quarter or third of the battery is below the
keyboard. But the smaller screen is probably not enough to compensate for the
loss, so yea, probably it would have shorter battery life but not by 100%...

~~~
kartickv
We could make the device a millimeter thicker so as to maintain the "up to 10
hours" battery life of the Macbook.

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freddref
I'd like one of these just for text with an E-Ink screen, no GUI, boot
straight to Emacs. What to name it though? Emacs-book, text-book, clibook...

~~~
digi_owl
If you could get a _nix to boot on a Freewrite, it would seem to offer what
your after.

[https://getfreewrite.com/](https://getfreewrite.com/)

~~~
freddref
I couldn't afford the required mustache wax.

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okket
The netbook is back.

~~~
digi_owl
Yep, its called a Chromebook.

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pedalpete
The original Surface had a similar aspect ratio and it was borderline
unusable, even with windows 8 touchmode.

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transfire
Might be acceptable if you could pivot the screen 90 degrees for a nice long
portrait mode.

~~~
imtringued
It would be also great if they could somehow split the keyboard into two
pieces for better ergonomics.

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emptybits
Since we're spitballing ... screen with portrait orientation and a split
keyboard.

