

Ask HN: Is it worthwhile for a startup to use a professional designer? - techiferous

A potential client recently asked me this question and I'm interested in the community's opinions on this.<p>Also, this is not really a yes/no question; it's a discussion prompt. :)
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replicatorblog
I think the better strategy is to infuse your organization with design
thinking. AirBnB has been one of YC's best recent performers and 2/3 of their
founding team are designers. To quote Steve Jobs:

 _In most people's vocabularies, design means veneer. It's interior
decorating. It's the fabric of the curtains of the sofa. But to me, nothing
could be further from the meaning of design. Design is the fundamental soul of
a human-made creation that ends up expressing itself in successive outer
layers of the product or service._

So if your goal is to make something consumer facing or where the user is key
in your thinking don't use a professional designer, make one a co-founder.

I think design is wildly underutilized and 1 good design hire can be worth
5-10 engineers at the early stage. This may sound heretical, but a good
designer can make UX decisions that have massive impact across a site, but
piggy back on pre-existing engineering tasks. This doesn't scale though. 10
designers aren't equal to 10 engineers.

That said, if you are creating some B2B product that doesn't have a lot of
meaningful user interaction, the value exchange is simple, or there aren't a
lot of competitive solutions (web or otherwise) then piece something together
via woothemes and 99 designs, or make friends with a good designer.

~~~
bretthellman
well said

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nostromo
Yes.

I'm a programmer by night / business type by day. I have a website soon to be
released in beta and I hired a designer I trusted (and could afford) from a
previous job. She worked wonders for the project -- seeing the new design also
reinvigorated me.

A few tips: Hire a friend if possible (you'll probably get a friend-rate), if
not work by referral. You want someone you can sit with face to face. Avoid
99Designs and the like if you can. Pay your invoices immediately and you'll
find the designer will likely continue to be super helpful. Also, get an
hourly rate up front since you'll probably find things that need to be
adjusted. Lastly, I wouldn't use the designer for HTML, just have them hand
off PSDs, the markup tends to be not so good. Insist on PSDs, not flattened
images.

By the way, I'm happy to give a refferal for a trusted friend. Just email me
at juliuss at gmail.

~~~
mattmanser
Any reasons on why to avoid 99designs and ilk?

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nostromo
If you're looking for a logo or page that will fit in with your existing look
and feel, those sites are pretty good. But for me personally, I got a lot more
traction by being able to sit with the designer and really give them a sense
for what I'm trying to accomplish. So, it really depends on what you need.

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limedaring
Am also a designer.

v1? Just get the damn thing out. Don't worry about whether it has the perfect
design or interactions at this point since the hardest part is simply
launching (and you're going to change your idea/design once you get feedback
anyways). After that, I believe a designer is invaluable, for taking user
feedback and results and crafting the product into something that promotes
more sales/views.

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leftnode
I am a programmer starting my own business. I pretend to be a designer, but
when it comes down to it, I'm really lost. I've tried the
ThemeForest/WooThemes route for nice templates. While they have some beautiful
templates, they'll still need customization that I can't do.

Suck it up, find a good designer and pay them well. I'm glad I did.

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edanm
It depends.

Firstly, what stage of a startup are we talking about? Are we talking a guy
building just a landing page? Are we talking a 20-person team with VC? The
answer is different for each case, both because of the money available, but
also because of how much that design will end up being used. A landing page
that might never lead to a product shouldn't cost you $1,000.

I haven't had much experience on the later stages of a startup, but I have
built a few products to the beginning stages. Early on, I made the mistake of
building the product without a design first thing. I figured, if it gets good
feedback, I can alway redesign it. Instead, what I would do today if I were
building _any_ product is go buy a template for $50, and work off that. Saves
a lot of redesign time (which is harder to do, since you've already got legacy
code). Also, gets you the "good design first impression" right off the bat,
which will lead to more accurate results when you need them the most (since
you really don't know if the product will be a success or not).

For a landing page, which you should do before building a product (unless the
product is _really_ simple), I've recently learned the best way. Go to
WooThemes.com or ThemeForest.com, buy a WordPress template for $70, and it
will make setting up your landing page a Wysiwyg experience, which is much
better. Even if you're a programmer like me, trust me on this, using WordPress
will make things smoother, and the design will be better for it.

As for an actual startup with an actual product (and money in the bank), I
wouldn't even think twice: hire a designer.

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jbail
No.

...assuming the startup is bootstrapping. Why?

1) Ugly designs are often very effective. 2) You can polish it later when
you're making money.

Your site might look amazing. Your site might look crappy. If no one knows
about your site or no one cares, then it doesn't matter either way.

Focus on traction for the product or service you're providing, then worry
about the design of your letterhead, business cards, shiny web 2.0 logo, etc.

~~~
kranner
Can you explain number 1 please?

I'm hoping it's true because I'm bootstrapping an app that's on the ugly side.
I've been told the product and workflow are solid but that the amateur design
will hurt conversions. It's a B2B product. Personally I think the ugly design
will filter out some tire-kickers (which is good because the product is
somewhat compute-intensive) but anyone who knows they need the product will
not be deterred. Of course I could be biased.

I'd like to add that I don't intend to keep it ugly, but I'm hoping to see
some revenue first.

~~~
kiddo
examples of #1 - craigslist and plentyoffish

~~~
fakelvis
Anecdotes do not equal proof. I agree that ugly design can help certain
businesses (think landing pages) but wouldn't use a couple of examples as
proof of this (mainly because the opposite is likely to be more accurate).

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swalberg
"Worthwhile", I don't know. I guess it depends on what your product is
supposed to do.

My product is <http://smallpayroll.ca>, it's a do it yourself payroll site
made for people who don't know anything about payroll. I freely admit it looks
like crap. But of the handful of people that have tried it out and paid for
it, I haven't heard "this looks like crap". What I hear is "this product makes
my life so much easier"

Could I get more conversions with a better design? Maybe... But I know for my
product it's not preventing me from getting paying customers.

(As an aside, I've often thought there should be a place for people like us to
find designers that know how to work with applications instead of just
designing web pages.)

~~~
techiferous
Your design definitely doesn't fall into the "looks like crap" category. These
sites fall into the "crap" category:

<http://www.mylanguageexchange.com/>

<http://www.sporcle.com/>

Your site strikes me as in the "good enough" category. The design isn't
anything special, either good or bad. This means that there is nothing bad
about the design to bring your product down and I think it also means that the
law of diminishing returns may apply to putting resources into making the
design better.

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jbarham
Yes, definitely. A well-designed and aesthetically pleasing site adds instant
credibility, especially for people who are non-technical (i.e., the people who
often make the final buy/no-buy decision).

And it's rare for a strong systems or web back-end programmer to also have a
good design sense and to be versed in the various rendering quirks and
workarounds for the common browsers.

Note that it doesn't mean you have to hire a full-time designer. A lot of
designers are freelancers, and like it that way.

37signals' Sortfolio (<http://www.sortfolio.com/>) lists a lot of independent
designers for a range of budgets.

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devmonk
Yes. Shop around just like anything else.

But, you'll be even better off if you have someone with good design skills
working for you if you plan to be able to do revisions, ongoing changes.

I worked for a small company that outsourced some design for logo, but ended
up hiring someone full-time to do photography and design. It was a bold step
since they were a telecom company, but the polish and sheer amount of the work
by having someone in-house differentiate them from their competitor.

At first I thought they were foolish (for years actually), but now that he is
still working there, and seeing where they are, it was sheer genius to have
hired him.

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vaksel
well you do need a good design, the web has matured...if your site looks like
crap people will leave.

but you don't need a designer for that.

1\. istockphoto gets you a ton of illustrations that you can use to spice up
your pages.

2\. 99designs gets you a good logo or any other custom work you need. Some
people will knock 99designs...and yes the quality may be worse than one you'd
get from a top of the line designer. But it'll be miles ahead of what you can
achieve on your own, and you'll get to avoid paying thousands for a logo.

from my experience, a single illustration can turn a boring and bland page
into something that's decent.

~~~
tofumatt
The real issue with sites like 99designs isn't the quality (though it IS
mostly terrible), it's the _consistency_. If you're getting a bunch of
different designers to design you something over their lunch break with no
interest in or knowledge of your company/goals, you're gonna get something
different every time.

Seriously, skip the kids at 99designs and hire a local freelance designer.
Maybe you can get lucky and guarantee them [X] number of hours a month in
exchange for a lower rate.

~~~
vaksel
you are forgetting that we are talking about a startup here...they can't
afford $12K for a designer.

And who cares about consistency..it's just something to use for a few months
until the site gets profitable to get someone good. You just don't want
something that looks like crap. And you can always just use the one person
whose design you picked for more work.

And it's not like you are guaranteed good stuff from a local designer...plenty
of them are worse than the "kids" at 99 designs.

~~~
foleyfoley
I think if you actually screen who you hire you will find someone who cares
about their work, is talented, and will understand you are a start up and
charge accordingly.

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kqueue
I think finding a good designer willing to work on your project is the most
difficult part of the whole project.

Focusing on what you do best (programming) and subcontracting what you do
worst (design) leads to a great product imho. If you end up doing both, you'll
eventually lose motivation because you'll never get satisfied with your own
designs (you are not a designer after all). Not to mention that you'll be
shifting focus back and forth between design/programming, and each one
requires a different kind of focus and way of thinking. The end product if it
sees the light? Mediocre at best.

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iampims
If you're building a search engine, better get a UX guy.

If you're building a photo sharing site, better get a UX guy.

If you're building a social app, then hell yes, get a UX guy AND a designer.

~~~
techiferous
Thanks. Would you mind elaborating more on the difference between UX and
design? And how each can help a startup achieve its business goals?

~~~
replicatorblog
We have both roles in our company -

A UX designer is largely focused on how things work. If I press "X" button
what happens? Should the input method for this app be a number pad or a scroll
wheel? etc.

A graphic/visual designer is focused on how the app looks. What are the
feelings this app is trying to evoke? Does it have a rough "hacker" look or is
this something Martha Stewart devotees would like?

These are rough generalizations along a spectrum. Some UX designers are more
product manager types, interested in specifying features and high level
behaviors leaving implementation level wireframes to a designer or engineer.
Some graphic designers also like to get involved in the feature
selection/design. It really varies by person, but its important to understand
what you need before you hire. Nothing worse than trying to get slick graphics
from someone whose passion is task analysis or strategic input from someone
who loves polishing pixels.

------
mynameisraj
I'm a designer myself, but I'm confused at what the question is asking.

A designer can be many things. You can hire an interaction designer. You can
hire an interface designer. You can hire a website designer.

I am going to assume you are speaking about an interface/web designer. Yes is
the answer. When it comes down to it, your end users are probably going to
avoid your service if they don't think it looks good. The amount of traffic
you'd gain with a good design easily justifies the price of hiring a good
designer.

Now, the other thing is the word 'professional'. Professionals are very
expensive. You're talking at least 10 thousand dollars for a decent project.
If you go with someone who's a student or the like (cough), you'll get a
better rate, but you won't get the timeline that a startup might need. There's
the other issue. If it's not going to repay itself in traffic easily, then
it's not worth it. In most cases, will it? Of course.

The other option is DIY. If you take some time and learn your shit, you can
usually do something that doesn't look half-assed.

Now, moving on to the HTML bit. I do both. Many designers do both. Plain and
simple: if you don't know markup, you shouldn't make mockups.

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sahillavingia
Disclosure: I am a designer.

 _YES._ The value that a design has in a first impression helps with that
first bit of traction so _so_ much. I've had projects fail because of crappy
designs, and crappy projects succeed because of - subjectively - great ones.

Invest, it's not even that much compared to some of your other costs. Look
into students (like me!) who may need the money and the recognition, though
don't abuse them.

------
jeffclark
Definitely.

A designer does more than just make pretty pictures.

Ugly or not (the art, not the designer), a designer actually will help design
the usability of the site at the same time so that you _can_ grow.

A good designer knows where to put the little calls-to-action and the email
signup forms and all that so that you can meet your business goals.

It's definitely worthwhile to get a professional designer.

------
togasystems
If you want people to start taking you seriously, then YES!

I have been turned off on a number of occasions by the lack of a professional
design.

You could probably scrape by, by getting a free theme from the intertubes, but
what about your logo/branding.

Go to your local college and post something for a design job. You will get a
ton of replies and it probably won't cost you that much.

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wdavidturner
Yes-ish. If it takes too much of your time to produce anything that looks/feel
reasonable, then hire one. If you think you can get by doing it yourself, then
make it so. If you have enough chops to get by, but don't know where to start,
yes - then start tweeking stuff yourself.

try to stick to something simple and clear that lets users know what they're
doing next.

------
giffc
It depends on stage and context of product. In the earliest days, I think
whoever owns "customer development" should also own the UX. It doesn't need to
be beautiful, just good enough (that's where context of product comes in -- it
defines "good enough" -- a product for engineers will have different
requirements than one for grandparents).

The trouble with using free time from a friend is 1. by being free, it is
harder to give blunt feedback; 2. by being a favor, you are beholden to their
schedule, and can they really keep up with your pace of iteration and learning
based on customer development? It can put strain on friendships.

So in the earliest days I say try to DIY unless you really don't have a design
bone in your body. Use paper and Balsamiq to sketch, and examine what you like
and dislike of comparable products.

You can always hire a professional designer later to come in and help once you
feel confident that you are close to the right product for the right customer.

------
fjabre
<plug>I hired some pro designers for my site: <http://www.hobsonfiles.com>
</plug>

One thing to keep in mind: No matter how good your design is, it is no match
for an ugly site with a really useful feature..

------
KevinMS
I'd like to know the answer to this also, but after reading the comments I'm
still clueless.

Maybe this will help - Has anybody dared to do any A/B testing on professional
vs "unprofessional" design?

~~~
ramit
This is a complicated question.

I know of a direct-response guy who had horribly ugly sales pages that
literally included misspellings. He tells this story about how all kinds of
marketing consultants and designers would come in and say, "Your sales page is
so ugly! You need a redesign." He would laugh and say, "Everyone says that.
But I have data from the last 5 years, and this is the single best-performing
page of all." He made $25m last year.

Sophisticated direct marketers are not to be trifled with.

However, if you're building a company that depends on other non-direct factors
like brand, you can't really A/B test that. You just have to make a decision.

A few years back, I met a guy whose girlfriend worked on the optimization team
at Amazon. Now THEY are sophisticated. They knew how A/B tweaks would affect
users several months later. But even still, Amazon often makes strategic
decisions that can't always be justified with data.

Bottom line: It's important to know the advantages and disadvantages of
various types of marketing, including direct/brand/etc. But you will have to
make some tough choices.

Personally, on my sites, I've seen lots of interesting results with testing
designs...but I finally told my staff to stop micro-testing since we'd
optimized the hell out of some of our stuff and were only getting incremental
gains (e.g., going from 35% opt-in rate to 39% is prohibitively difficult).
The biggest results I've gotten have been from strategic changes like changing
the offer, adding a new product, pricing changes, back-end offers, deeper
customer research, etc.

~~~
vv
Well said Ramit. There was a great interview of Jeff Bezos by the now defunct
Portfolio Magazine in which they asked him how important A/B testing is to
Amazon's success. He said it was important but that still many decisions, such
as launching the Kindle, need to "come from the heart".

In this age of analytics, I think a lot of small startups are overlooking the
gut decisions they need to make and focusing too much on optimization (e.g.
this HN question).

~~~
wallflower
This might not be the interview referenced above (kinda brief). Wired acquired
Portfolio's content? Or was it their progeny?

"Portfolio: Are you always extremely methodical about major decisions?

Bezos: With business decisions, yes. With personal decisions, I find that my
methodical nature can confuse me, and so I think more about personal
decisions, like what job you really want to take or whom you want to marry.
Although I did have criteria for that...

Portfolio: What's a gut call you made?

Bezos: Amazon Prime. It's an all-you-can-eat buffet, $79, that gives you free
two-day shipping on everything you buy for a year. When you do the math on
that, it always tells you not to do it.

Portfolio: One of your big initiatives, a search engine called A9, fell flat.
What happened?

Bezos: If you decide that you’re going to do only the things you know are
going to work, you're going to leave a lot of opportunity on the table.
Companies are rarely criticized for the things that they failed to try. But
they are, many times, criticized for things they tried and failed at."

[http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/news/2008/05/portfolio_0...](http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/news/2008/05/portfolio_0522)

------
iuguy
Yes, but get one you can trust. If you're just starting out, try to find
someone local that you can work with. Look at what they've done before and try
them out on something small. Most local designers will quite happily do a
small project a month for you, which will ease your burn rate.

For web sites for a startup, Themeforest is the way to go. A small amount of
cash gets you a theme that you can use for your MVP, redesign once you're
profitable and know how much you can spend.

------
anonymous236
Actual user review I once received - "Even though I could not start your
program on my Windows 98, I still give it 4 out of 5 stars, because it looks
awesome" (on screenshots).

So, yes, design matters :)

