
Earthsea – A Rival to Tolkien and George RR Martin (2015) - benbreen
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/oct/23/david-mitchell-wizard-of-earthsea-tolkien-george-rr-martin
======
snowwrestler
The Earthsea cycle is very, very different from Tolkien and GRRM.

The first three books are a classic "bildungsroman"\--a coming of age story--
both as a whole and individually. The point of view character in each novel is
a young person, passing through late adolescence and into adulthood. In this
respect it is more comparable to Harry Potter or The Dark Is Rising or perhaps
His Dark Materials fantasy series.

The world LeGuin builds for the story is incredibly rich and unique, like
Middle Earth and the world of ASOIAF, but the structure of the stories are
considerably simpler.

However, the "inner life" of the stories are richer. Like the Dune series, the
novels of Earthsea spend a lot of time deep in the perspective of a few key
characters. I think it is one reason these novels are so hard to film in a
satisfying way.

That said, where Earthsea really distinguishes itself from almost any other
fantasy series, is the fact that LeGuin came back to the series much later in
her life and added two more books. These are set in the same world but regard
it with different perspectives of age and gender.

The original trilogy is classic fantasy about Our Heroes who are uniquely
gifted and ultimately save the day and pass into legend. The final two books
are about what happens to those people when they face the complicated and
unsatisfying future: their personal gifts are no longer powerful, and their
beliefs and assumptions are challenged by a new generation... and ultimately
found to be not only flawed, but awful. Some of the things they defended were
not absolutely good after all, but the lasting artifacts of earlier
selfishness, bias, and bigotry.

I resisted reading these later two novels for a long time because I enjoyed
the purity of the stories in the original trilogy. But now having read them
all, I find I can enjoy them in related but still somewhat separate ways.

If the later two novels don't sound like your kind of thing, you could read
the first three now, and then visit the last two books a decade or two (or
three) later. That would align your perspective with LeGuin's when she wrote
them.

~~~
jpm_sd
I'm nearly 40 and I really enjoy Tehanu and The Other Wind much more now than
I did when they were first published. I find it much easier to identify with
the aging characters. I think TOW is now my favorite of the series.

------
zarkov99
Definitely up there with Tolkien and much better than RR Martin.

“When I was young, I had to choose between the life of being and the life of
doing. And I leapt at the latter like a trout to a fly. But each deed you do,
each act, binds you to itself and to its consequences, and makes you act again
and yet again. Then very seldom do you come upon a space, a time like this,
between act and act, when you may stop and simply be. Or wonder who, after
all, you are.” ― Ursula K. Le Guin, The Farthest Shore

~~~
matwood
I've been looking for a new fiction series to read, and you sold me. Thanks!

EDIT And to add, I know this is an older series but I tend to read more
science part of fiction and less fantasy.

~~~
joshua_dunigan
My favorite fantasy series was/is the Inheritance cycle ( Eragon ). My grandpa
also really liked the series as well and binged them. So to me ( I was in
middle school ) and my grandfather, they were all very interesting books to
read!

~~~
magic_beans
The Eragon books are an unasahamed knockoff of Tolkein. A cilche-riddled,
poorly written, tropey, dopey travesty.

~~~
ericmcer
Weren't they written by someone in the 16 years old range? They were not good
books but it is still impressive for a teenager to have the discipline
actually create a finished work. They definitely played up that angle when
marketing the books.

------
Houyhnhnms
Honestly, the Earthsea books were decent, but I didn't think they were
anywhere near Tolkien. Tolkien gives you the feeling that there is an entire
world waiting just around the corner. Earthsea feels like a shell that you are
exploring. Like it doesn't really exist, it just appears when you show up,
almost a hollow feeling where the characters don't really exist but are paper
cutouts. I read all 3 and enjoyed them, but just not as good as some others
and I thought the world was a bit lacking.

~~~
projectramo
What age did you read them at?

There is something about reading your first Tolkien fantasy book around 13-15
that just feels different. If you had read any of the Tolkien facsimiles at
that age (Shannara, Wheel of Time etc) you may feel the same way. But if you
reread those books now, you may feel different.

~~~
Houyhnhnms
That's a good point; I read Tolkien in early teens, then read Earthsea in my
20s, so that would make a difference

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TheAceOfHearts
No mention of Brandon Sanderson and the Cosmere novels? Instead of a single
fantasy world, you get a whole universe!

"All of the books share a single creation myth (though not all cultures are
aware of it), a single cosmology, and are connected by an overarching story."
[0]

Sure, one could argue that it's still not fully-formed, as it's still in the
process of being written. But the same could easily be said for A Song of Ice
and Fire.

The Stormlight Archive quickly won a place in my loved series category. I
don't think I devoured any book from last year as quickly as when the latest
entry in the series was released.

One of my favorite things about Brandon Sanderson is that he proactively
engages readers (/u/mistborn on Reddit), and he gives regular status updates
on his writing progress. I highly value transparency from authors.

I'd never heard of Earthsea, but the article managed to catch my interest. I'm
adding it to my queue.

[0]
[http://stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/Cosmere](http://stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/Cosmere)

~~~
egjerlow
Brandon Sanderson is an interesting case; I have only read the Stormlight
Archive books (and his wrap-up of Wheel of Time), and though I can totally see
his appeal, I would also totally disagree that he belongs up there with the
true greats, at least currently.

Reading his books, I feel like I'm in some kind of Marvel universe, complete
with quippy dialogue and 'coolness' that to me gives a stink of
'commercialism' that I can't get past.

In the Stormlight Archive, Shallan is the best example of this: Her dialogue
is so forcedly hip and witty that cringes abound whenever I read it. To me, it
ruins the whole atmosphere and I feel like I'm in a plastic universe, rather
than a living breathing one.

His worldbuilding is great, but his worlds are devoid of authenticity IMO.

~~~
mrcarrot
Absolutely. I've found I have a really hard time with how he writes action as
well. I always feel as though he's describing someone playing a video game.

~~~
Cthulhu_
like, "<character> cast Fire on <enemy> for 110 dmg (+3 from Ring of Fire)"?

~~~
SXX
No, but once he start to introduce some "magic" mechanics he literally
describe it in details: how exactly it's works and looks like as if he was
describing politicking. Also I took "magic" into quotes since in Cosmere books
for the reader (!) it's always more like set of additional physics-like laws
of world mechanics rather than some mystery.

~~~
the_af
This is of course a matter of taste, but I really dislike this approach to
magic/alchemy that Sanderson has. He's explained it before in an illuminating
article [1] about his classification of magic systems in "Soft" (less
explained, more arbitrary) vs "Hard" (more logical, there are clear/mechanical
rules), and how he prefers the latter. I respect this, but I dislike it. To
me, magic isn't rational or logical, and overexplanation ruins it. I prefer
Tolkien's subtle approach that magic is unexplained, part of the song that
made the world -- and in fact, to some of his characters "magic" is a puzzling
word.

"Like a videogame" is an apt description of Sanderson's approach, and not my
thing. Even Jack Vance's magic system of memorizing spells, used in his Dying
Earth stories and said to have inspired the Dungeons & Dragons RPG system, is
more mysterious and mystical than Sanderson's. Which is the way it should be!

[1] [https://brandonsanderson.com/sandersons-first-
law/](https://brandonsanderson.com/sandersons-first-law/)

~~~
mcdoh
To me, "soft magic" is the same as "a hacker did it" that so many bad movies
and TV shows use these days.

~~~
the_af
It doesn't really work that way in practice, though. Not in Tolkien or in
other good fantasy works.

Good "soft" magic is mysterious and often unreliable. It sometimes comes with
a price. Main characters often do not understand it and cannot use it, or they
misuse it to terrifying or hilarious results (e.g. Cugel in The Eyes of the
Overworld).

The supernatural must be unknowable, otherwise it simply turns into the
natural.

"A wizard/hacker did it" is simply bad writing.

~~~
SXX
As you posted yourself it's matter of taste, but I for instance simply can't
stand another "Gandalf come and save the day" situation because everyone
except very good authors heavily abuse such tropes.

I perfectly fine with this kind of stuff in something like Discworld because
of nature of these books and how I read them, but for epic fantasy with more
or less serious themes I expect events to have logic behind them. Sanderson's
books still have mysteries, but they just served by the ways other than
generic "magic". So there is plenty of things to make theories about during
and after reading.

~~~
the_af
Yes, of course, it's a matter of taste. I can't argue beyond "I like reading
this and dislike reading that".

Ultimately, to me, literary fiction is NOT like programming, and it's not as
easy to explain what works and what doesn't. Mystery and ambiguity are bad
things in code but good in literature.

Which brings me full circle to why I dislike Sanderson's approach :)

------
AndrewDucker
For thos wondering why this is topical, the author (Ursula K Le Guin) died
yesterday (and this made the front page of HN).

~~~
optimuspaul
I totally missed that. I really enjoyed her writing. A great loss.

------
cflewis
The reason why I enjoy Tolkein so much is that I like the poetic, almost
biblical prose. I know why it drives some people mad, but I really liked it.

I've never found anything that comes close to replicating it. I would love
recommendations if people have them.

~~~
lobster_johnson
You might like Gene Wolfe, especially The Book of the New Sun and the Latro
series [1].

The Book of the New Sun is technically sci-fi, but in fantasy trappings, set
in a future world in which the sun is slowly dying out, and humankind has
mostly lost their knowledge of technology. It's dense, filled with sly little
narrative puzzles that are left for readers to deconstruct, and it's
beautifully written in a mannered, intentionally archaic style.

The Latro series, starting with Soldier of the Mist, is a historical fantasy
about a Roman soldier who suffers from retrograde amnesia, so he must
continuously write down what happened the day before. (It came out decades
before the movie Memento.)

[1] [https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/sci-fis-
difficul...](https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/sci-fis-difficult-
genius)

~~~
root_axis
I second this endorsement of BOTNS. It is the best fiction book I've ever
read. I think lobster_johnson's description here is a great meta-summary. For
the sake of brevity I will curb my impulse to vomit up heaps of sycophantic
praise for this book. I highly recommend it if you're up for an intellectually
demanding read.

~~~
cflewis
I remember trying the Kindle sample and thinking "Man, this is rough going".
Does it ever ease up?

~~~
svachalek
There are levels and levels to what's going on in the writing. The early
chapters are there to set up that he's lying to you, in a way that's heavy
handed and devilishly subtle at the same time. Reading Gene Wolfe is like
playing a poker game with the author, and no matter how hard you try to pay
attention sometimes you look down and chips are missing, like Penn and Teller
were just "explaining" a magic trick to you. It's frustrating and difficult
and fantastic all at the same time, but obviously not for the same market as
someone expecting a typical coming of age fantasy novel.

~~~
root_axis
I know this is leaning into off-topic territory so I promise not to do the
fiction-debate-thread thing, but a lot of readers (myself included) disagree
with the suggestion that he ever lies to the reader. :)

------
logfromblammo
Wizard of Earthsea was the first Sci-Fi/Fantasy book that I found difficult to
follow.

This was because a printer's error caused the pages to be bound in the wrong
order. I don't usually pay attention to page numbers, so it took me a while to
realize this. I thought I was losing my mind until I noticed the numbers
weren't in sequence.

To this day, I can't tell you what was going on, plot-wise.

------
michaelmior
The Dragonlance saga was a favourite of mine when I was younger. The sheer
number of books published in that universe is astounding.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dragonlance_novels](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dragonlance_novels)

------
mhd
Makes me wonder what Michael Moorcock (notable Tolkien critic) thought about
Earthsea...

~~~
atupis
[http://www.revolutionsf.com/article.php?id=953](http://www.revolutionsf.com/article.php?id=953)

~~~
cbzbc
I was pleasantly surprised. The writing in that article is of a much better
standard than that in Moorcock's fiction.

~~~
teh_klev
I owned and read pretty much all of The Eternal Champion "sequence"[0] back in
the 80's. Sure, some of the prose wasn't exactly slick, but I found them
deeply satisfying and a damn fine fun read.

[0]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_Champion#The_Eternal_C...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_Champion#The_Eternal_Champion_Sequence)

~~~
FeloniousHam
I recently read the Elric books and loved them. A friend said they're the
written expression of an airbrushed 70s conversion van, or some heavy metal
album cover. They're rough, but alive in a way eg. Sanderson can only glimpse.

Also, Gloriana was great (very different from Elric).

In this vein, Poul Anderson's The Broken Sword is probably my favorite; it's
direct and raw, like a bare knuckle punch in the face :).

~~~
teh_klev
> the written expression of an airbrushed 70s conversion van, or some heavy
> metal album cover.

Were you aware that Moorcock wrote, performed and toured with Hawkwind in the
70's and 80's? Also Hawkwind's 1985 "Chronicles of the Black Sword"[0] album
is largely inspired by the Elric tales.

I've been to see Hawkwind live around 25 times, so I have a bit of a thing for
them and Moorcock. If you ever get the chance you should go see them because
Dave Brock sadly isn't getting any younger.

[0]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chronicle_of_the_Black_Swo...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chronicle_of_the_Black_Sword)

------
hd4
>ctrl+f "Malazan" \- "0 results"

I guess I'm going to have to be 'that guy'. Malazan Book of the Fallen does
the whole intricate, overlapping fantasy universe incredibly well.

~~~
mcdoh
I read the first Malazan book but it never really gripped me. I've heard that
it really gets good at book three. Do you agree?

~~~
spiralx
Book two is very intense and gripping, but it features a different cast of
characters from the first which some people find jarring. The third book
returns to the characters from the first, and is definitely where most people
find that they've really gotten sucked into it :)

~~~
hd4
It is very jarring, that's why I love it. He isn't at all bothered about
following generic fantasy patterns, it does seem like a labor of love in that
he just does what he likes when he likes. The only weak part I felt so far was
the culmination of Book 1, it could have been better I guess.

------
neilwilson
Prefer The Belgariad

That I did read to death.

~~~
sigzero
Those were good! I'd put those above the Earthsea series.

~~~
logfromblammo
I always thought the Eddingses threw a bit too much energy into the "love
conquers all" trope. But I still concur.

------
almostarockstar
Never read the book(s?) and I don't know the characters, nor the author, but
that article was really engaging to read.

------
jinwood
Is this David Mitchell the UK comedian?

~~~
psyc
David Mitchell the author of Cloud Atlas.

~~~
jeffmess
Even though I knew it was the author I read this article in the comedians
voice :)

~~~
Freak_NL
I can't help but wonder how the two feel about each other; both being big
names in their own field. Both enjoyable in their own right too.

