
Why Windows Just Can’t Win - meow
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/10/why-windows-just-cant-win/
======
habitue
"Oh, and can you guess when Apple — now the world’s biggest company —
announces its first earnings post-iPhone 5? Oct. 24. "

Uh, yeah. An earnings report is going to steal the thunder of a product
launch.

"It doesn’t matter if Microsoft creates the greatest operating system in the
world if it then allows others to junk it up. And, ultimately, it means that
Microsoft isn’t in control of its brand."

No one can succeed if they give up absolute control of their platforms to OEMs
... oh wait that's exactly what android does. And OEMs put (non-
uninstallable!) crapware on android phones, and they still sell. Only Apple is
pushing the complete control angle, and while it works for them, it's hardly
the only model that could work.

I love android phones, and while I won't be getting a windows phone, I think
this article's arguments are pretty weak and don't have enough substance to
back up that link bait title.

~~~
Timmy_C
I feel like consumers are clamoring for an Android phone that runs stock Jelly
Bean. The Nexus 7 shipped with stock Android 4.1 and it has been very
successful in the tablet market.

~~~
Cieplak
[https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=galaxy_nexu...](https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=galaxy_nexus_hspa)

~~~
Joeri
"Sorry! Devices on Google Play is not available in your country yet. We're
working to bring devices to more countries as quickly as possible. Please
check back again soon."

~~~
Cieplak
Which country are you in?

------
fjorder
This article critiques the theatricality of MS's release process quite
thoroughly and concludes that it is not the same as Apple's.

This is true, but nobody should give a crap.

What's important is that Windows 8, the surface, etc. are actually _good_.

Until Apple came along and turned computers into fashion accessories, brand
image didn't matter so much. Now it clearly does. What the author ignores is
that brand image is a product of many things, with press releases being only a
small part for most companies (They are a somewhat larger part of Apple's
brand). A long track record of high quality and innovative products coupled
with clever advertising is what makes or breaks a brand like Apple's more than
anything else.

Microsoft's brand is currently rather mediocre. Missteps over the last decade
have really hurt it, but Windows 7 did go a long way to help it recover.
Vista, as maligned as it was, was actually a really good OS saddled with some
bad default settings (e.g. The overly obtrusive UAC). Windows 7 brought some
minor innovations to the interface, greatly improved the default settings, and
added a little bit of "cool" with details as subtle as just adding some
unusually funky and artistic default backgrounds. Windows 7's default
backgrounds made OSX look like the bland, boring corporate OS that Apple has
long tried to brand Windows to be!

Movie studios often keep stinkers under strict wraps until opening weekend. If
they advertise enough and prevent the film from being savaged by critics until
the day of release they can still get a good opening weekend out of a poor
film. Good films are frequently shown to critics or at film festivals well in
advance of general release. This "festival route" builds word of mouth.

If MS had kept Windows 8 under wraps until a big press event this month and
then hyped it as the most awesome thing ever, just like Apple does with their
products, few people would likely believe them. By broadly distributing a
release candidate for Windows 8 and showing the Surface publicly prior to
release, MS took the "festival route" and built a big word-of-mouth effect.
MS's brand isn't what Apple is, and they were smart enough to realize they
have to do things differently, and did.

------
cbaleanu
So much hate for Microsoft. I'm at awe. Like one commenter on the article's
page said, If Apple would do that kind of launch experiment, everybody would
praise them for how revolutionay they are.

Microsoft has a real chance of claiming a big chunk of the market, not from
Apple, but from the messy Android ecosystem, with a clear brand and a simple
product lineup.

~~~
lawdawg
People said the same exactly thing w.r.t Android when Windows Phone 7 was
released. I think history speaks for itself.

~~~
cbaleanu
The WP7 was a flop indeed. They launched it almost without any backup. With
the W8 product line however, they rebranded everything, creating an unitary
brand image, much like Apple did a while ago. And that's why I did the Android
statement. They provide to all the _predominantly_ tech savvy users of Android
an unified experience that is not Cupertino flavored.

~~~
css771
The tech savvy Android users? They would be the last people to switch to WP.
That thing does not have a viable way to run unsigned applications. No proper
multitasking, no proper notifications. What exactly about WP is supposed to
attract tech savvy users?

~~~
meaty
Tech savvy user WP user here. I just bought a lumia 800 for very little cash
over a galaxy s2. Why? It's actually less clunky than stock android or
touchwiz. I haven't found a use for multitasking on the phone yet.
Notifications are fine - I have no idea what you are talking about.

The lumia is actually to be as blunt as possible, fucking marvellous.

I doubt you've used one.

~~~
css771
I have used a friend's Lumia 900 running WP 7.5 actually.

I hate the fact that apps are not retained in memory long enough. They always
start over. Also, launching an app from the home screen launches a new
instance instead of resuming the current instance.

Notifications are even more terrible. There's no way to access previous
notifications. There's no central place where all notifications live. You
can't access them from the lock screen.

Yes, all these are quirks I've found as a tech savvy user. Because of these
reasons, I cant see myself ever using WP.

Besides, just the fact that you cant run unsigned applications (and there's no
viable "jailbreak") is an instant turn-off for power users. So, to suggest
that these people will leave Android is hilarious at best.

~~~
meaty
I haven't experienced the retention issue myself. My pattern of usage is to
only open from the tiles. I tend to use the back button to navigate through
previous contexts (hold it down and then slide left/right to pick a task/open
application).

Regarding notifications; you know about tiles right? They have status on them
i.e. unread count etc. A notification is pretty just a poke in the ribs to
check the tiles rather than a queue of things to do.

Jail-break and run unsigned apps? Yes there is for nearly all devices - see
xda-developers.com. I really don't care about this myself though. Mobile
telephones have never been open platforms. Even Android is a fragmented
minefield in this respect.

It's just different.

------
hans
I sat in on a MS presentation the other day, and it was a disaster. The
terminology is off the chart confusing, the presenter constantly dropping
terms then backing off with "oh but we aren't supposed to call it that" and
then "oh but if marketing isn't listening i'll just call it that" ... back and
forth.

It took forever just to explain metro (not metro) and windows RT (not metro
but metro) and windows pro (with metro but not metro, i mean RT or ARM, or
modern UI). ARM but not intel, desktop but including ARM/RT/metro but not
metro. Just build apps for windows phone (but not mobile), but metro no wait
not metro on mobile (i mean phone).

Honestly really crazy stuff, round and round.

~~~
k3n
MS's propensity to attempt to create new buzzwords and terminology, though one
of the least consequential functionally, is probably one of my biggest turn-
offs with them. I'm a straight-shooter and prefer to be communicated with in
the same way. It's like they're playing a psychological game, trying to get
your mind to play something up better than it actually is....simply because it
has a new and novel name.

Just call it what it is already, damnit. If you so happen to invent something
new -- then by all means, call it what you want -- but please quit taking old
ideas and applying the old web 2.0 naming convention everywhere.

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hamidpalo
So Windows can't succeed because they've announced their products and aren't
spacing the announcement and the codename used for the design language is
actually a trademark owned by someone else?

I'm sure that people are buying the new BMW 5 series because they like the
name of the design language (Flame Surfacing) and because it was launched in
Hong Kong. The actual quality of the product doesn't matter.

------
hresult
I completely agree with the following from the article:

"Even when Microsoft has a great product on its hands, even when its product,
engineering and design teams manage to hit one out of the park, it won’t
matter once the business team comes in and ruins it for everyone."

The whole history of all screw ups from Microsoft just confirms that.

~~~
anonaccount27
Yep. There was a great article a while back about how the Start button orb for
Windows 7 and the Start button search box (one of the best features of modern
Windows) were thought up and programmed very quickly, but took several months
to be properly implemented and debugged because of management.

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saturdaysaint
My bet is that small, cheap and really good 7" tablets will all but kill MS in
the consumer sphere next year. Fair or not (the Nexus 7 looks great), Apple's
going to popularize the form factor, and it's going to change people's
expectations. A lot more people can afford a $200 - 300 tablet as a Christmas
present than a $500 one. Women will find them more purse-friendly and way more
parents can afford them for their kids, which is going to tilt developers even
further from Windows.

MS won't be able to change their software or their business model fast enough
to compete with ubiquitous $200 computers.

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recursive
Wait, Windows 8 and Windows RT are different things?

~~~
acqq
Definitely.

Windows 8 runs as Windows 8 and as Windows 8 RT. However, there's also WinRT
which is something else:

WinRT == Windows Runtime

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Runtime>

"Not to be confused with Windows RT"

Now

"Windows RT (formerly known as Windows on ARM) is an upcoming version of the
Windows 8 operating system for ARM devices such as tablets. The RT acronym
does not officially stand for anything.[1] It will officially only run
software available through the Windows Store or included in Windows RT."

Homework: try to explain that in less words. :)

~~~
ditoa
Windows 8 is a desktop/laptop/tablet OS aimed at home users

Windows 8 Pro is a desktop/laptop/tablet OS aimed at businesses/power users

Windows 8 Enterprise is a desktop/laptop/tablet OS aimed at large businesses
(only available via volume license)

Windows RT is a tablet only OS aimed at the iPad/Android market (and can only
be delivered via an OEM on a device) Like the iPad and Android it can only run
apps available via the Microsoft App Store.

Surface RT is a tablet running Windows RT (so aimed at iPad/Android tablet
owners).

Surface Pro (available early 2013) is a tablet running Windows 8 Pro and is
more or less like an ultrabook with higher specs than the Surface RT. As it
runs Windows 8 Pro it can run all apps that any other Windows 8 Pro computer
can it is not limited to the App Store like the Surface RT is.

WinRT is the new Windows Run Time. Read more at
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinRT> as it explains it better than I can in
one sentence.

~~~
acqq
Thanks. Only after reading your response I understood.

Microsoft developed the Windows version for ARM. But then some big shot in
Microsoft decided:

"No, you can't mention ARM in any name, we absolutely don't want to mention
ARM anywhere in our propaganda or any other material. Our customers should not
be aware that this thing like ARM processors exist. Intel promised to make
something like ARM in just a year or two. Or we're going to make something. Or
whatever, we just don't want to mention ARM. Verboten."

Underling1: "Oooh, how are we going to refer to the darn thing now?"

Underling2: "I know let's reuse the name that these developers use for the
thing they produce, this WinRT thing. We'll call it Windows RT"

All together: "Bravo!"

------
lispm
The German company 'Metro' is not exactly small.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_AG>

It has 66 billion Euro revenue and 250000 employees. It's the fifth largest
retailer in the world.

Kind of unlikely that they give up their trademark name or sell it to
Microsoft. It's not worth fighting for. Especially since Metro sells Microsoft
products.

------
mrng
As Lt. Commander Worf would say, "We shall see".

~~~
nilium
Oddly enough, this is probably the only reasonable response. Of course, you
don't get clicks by saying, "let's wait and see." You have to go out, pants
off, hopping on a table and shouting, "Windows 8 can't win!" So, that's what
people will write.

With Windows 8, I think we'll probably see more mild annoyance as folks buy
new PCs for their homes. After two weeks, they'll likely get used to it, then
we'll never hear another word about Windows 8 failing. I just don't see the
change being so enormous that users will really care long enough to affect
anything.

It'll probably be like Vista: a lot of people dislike it without using it,
some dislike it for a specific reason (like drivers), and most get along with
it just fine and don't really have any problems. The UI changes are enough to
probably increase the size of the group complaining, especially the group that
hasn't used it, but I don't think it's enough to stop Windows 8 from
succeeding in the long run.

~~~
MaysonL
Yeah, the big change will be that there won't be a big change: the Windows PC
market will continue on its slow decline, with Apple eating a slowly
increasing share of Microsoft's lunch and profits. Windows RT, and the Surface
RT will do slightly, but only slightly better than all of Microsoft's previous
tablets. (Why Gates killed the Courier project is still beyond me). Window
Phone 8 will do slightly better than Windows Phone 7, but in a few years will
be about as obscure.

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Timmy_C
This article demonstrates the increasing gap between tech reporters and
consumers. Announcements and marketing aren't the metrics for the quality of a
product. Design, user experience and features will ultimately decide whether
the latest line of Microsoft products succeeds.

But he does have a point with bloatware and control over the brand. I commonly
associate the Windows brand with garbage software that comes pre-installed on
every PC.

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gmoore
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_system...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems)

