
Curb Cuts - GW150914
https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/curb-cuts/
======
mlinksva
I just became aware of the possibility of raised crosswalks, which seem like a
fantastic idea -- no gradient for pedestrians, and a speed bump to slow cars
-- [https://sf.streetsblog.org/2018/05/22/walk-sf-campaigns-
for-...](https://sf.streetsblog.org/2018/05/22/walk-sf-campaigns-for-san-
franciscos-first-raised-intersection/)

I imagine a raised crosswalk would also be more expensive than a curb cut. Are
there any advantages or disadvantages relative to curb cuts for various
disabilities?

~~~
Noumenon72
Pedestrians are able to negotiate gradients more easily than cars, so this
seems inefficient.

~~~
mlinksva
The inefficiency for cars is a feature. It means drivers will slow down and
thus kill less.

[https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2018/1/25/speed-kills-
so...](https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2018/1/25/speed-kills-so-why-do-we-
keep-designing-for-it)

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jws
Tangentially related, but important if you do any sidewalk work… Those bumps
on the ramps are not for traction, they are tactile clues for the blind.

 _Do not use the bumped pavers decoratively to make interesting patterns!_
They come in a variety of patterns, but those all have specific meaning, they
are not there to make your walk look interesting.

~~~
mikepurvis
I can appreciate that purpose, but they're also really annoying to traverse
for other kinds of vehicles, including small-wheeled strollers, children's
scooters, longboards, etc. It's appreciated when the curb cut can be a bit
wider so that there's a section which is smooth all the way down.

With my powered longboard (Boosted), I'm usually on the road, but there's a
section of my commute where I'm on a multi-use pathway adjacent to a busy road
and need to use curb cuts to navigate crossings at a pair of roundabout—
having the bumps there (with limited way to avoid them) adds instability
exactly when I'm about to cross traffic and need to be able to focus on which
non-signalling, unaware drivers are about to swerve out of the roundabout and
plow me over.

I'm obviously a tiny minority in this, and the accessibility argument is huge,
but OTOH crossing these roundabouts in their current condition would be pretty
much impossible anyway for a non-sighted person.

~~~
carapace
As annoying as being blind? I understand you're inconvenienced by the bumps
but, c'mon, have some perspective.

~~~
mikepurvis
"crossing these roundabouts in their current condition would be pretty much
impossible anyway for a non-sighted person"

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empath75
As someone who has to push a stroller around these days, I’ve come to
appreciate how much improved accessibility for disabled people means improved
accessibility for _everyone_.

~~~
notatoad
Curb cuts are wonderful all around - in addition to the obvious benefits for
wheelchair bound people, they are great for strollers, deliveries, people with
reduced mobility who can walk but have trouble negotiating full curbs, and
just as a guideline for helping people with full mobility cross the street
safely.

~~~
burfog
For people with reduced mobility who can walk, slopes are often worse than
steps. It is common for old people to lose sensation. This includes the
ability to be confident of the angle of the ankle, the ability to sense
pressure under the foot, and the ability to quickly sense motion via the inner
ear. The slope can make these people tip right over, falling and then breaking
bones. It can be fatal.

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stirner
Curb cuts in LA also include a sheet of small yellow nubs right before the
street. The ADA calls these “detectable warning systems” [1], intended for
sight-impaired folks. I feel bad because I always assumed they were there to
interfere with skateboarders on the sidewalk!

[1] [https://www.access-board.gov/guidelines-and-
standards/street...](https://www.access-board.gov/guidelines-and-
standards/streets-sidewalks/public-rights-of-way/guidance-and-
research/detectable-warnings-update)

~~~
jdavis703
Skateboarders don't need curb cuts, they can go off and on curbs in ways that
wheelchairs can't easily do. And if they're using a longboard, well, that's
their own fault :)

~~~
paganel
For what it’s worth, people shouldn’t use the sidewalks for riding their
skateboards or longboards.

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chiefalchemist
Amazing.

That said, recently my father had a stroke. As the person who has spent plenty
of time pushing him in his wheelchair (until his balance and strenght returns)
I can tell you there are still plenty of instances where things are "non-
inclusive."

p.s. If anyone is looking for a startup idea, having a sensors to tell the
person using it whether __both__ breaks have been engaged would be helpful.
Without the breaks engaged pushing up and out of the chair actually leads to
pushing the chair out and back.

Similar can be said a walker. There's no feedback. It's all trial & error. T&E
is great for an 8 month old learning to walk for the first time. T&E for an 80
y/o is dangerous.

Even adding say $50 - $100 to the cost of either - if that investment lowered
doctor / hospital visits - I think the cost could be easily justified (read:
beneficial and insurane company approved).

~~~
carapace
*brakes

~~~
chiefalchemist
Yeah. Oops. Thx

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chuckgreenman
99pi is always one of my first recommendations for podcasts. Roman Mars and
team do a really good job of talking about the built / designed world in a way
that is accessable and interesting to outsiders.

~~~
wingerlang
Ironically, this episode didn't have him in it.

~~~
SECProto
Yes it does: he comes on at approximately 31:30

Either way, the praise was directed to Roman _and the team_.

~~~
wingerlang
I knew I should have finished the podcast before commenting..

And yes of course.

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jdietrich
See also this article by Rory Sutherland about the more general benefits of
accessible design.

[https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/12/design-everything-for-
th...](https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/12/design-everything-for-the-disabled-
and-you-cant-go-wrong/)

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protomyth
These, like speed bumps, would be a pain in winter for snow removal. There is
a reason a lot of folks in the northland are buying removable speed bumps so
they don’t have issues in the winter.

~~~
bobthepanda
Curb cuts are cut into the sidewalk, which is normally cleared by manual
shoveling anyways, t least in the US. Shoveling a curb cut is really not all
that different from shoveling any other piece of sidewalk.

