
New 10.3″ Waveshare E Ink Monitor - miles
https://blog.the-ebook-reader.com/2020/01/14/new-10-3-waveshare-e-ink-monitor-released-for-539-video/
======
errantspark
The website doesn't load for me but the monitor is available here
[https://www.waveshare.com/product/oleds-lcds/e-paper/eink-
di...](https://www.waveshare.com/product/oleds-lcds/e-paper/eink-disp-103.htm)

Unfortunately vendors are somehow constitutionally incapable of providing
useful technical information for eInk displays. It's so frustrating that
there's a huge graphic extolling it's FPGA based refresh technology but actual
technical information is almost completely absent. Why can't I just get a
datasheet?

I'll summarize here so other people don't have to grep through this mess.

    
    
        HDMI input
        1872×1404
        5V/3A
        ~5Hz refresh in mode A2
    

There are 3 modes, GC16, A2 and A2+, no technical information is provided but
there are some tiny (simulated?) screenshots. It appears that mode A2, the
"high refresh rate" one is purely black and white with no gray.

~~~
jwr
5V/3A (15W) — that sounds like a LOT for an e-ink display!

~~~
r3drock
It only uses electricity when it refreshes, so it does not seem that high.

~~~
fnord77
if you're typing something, wouldn't be constantly refreshing?

~~~
rustybolt
Most e-ink displays only refresh sections. So if you type a letter, it really
only draws the letter. If you scroll however, the whole screen needs to be
updated.

~~~
agumonkey
unless the software stack has a degraded mode for power saving

------
CoolGuySteve
Whatever happened to those non-backlit LCD displays like in the game boy color
and game boy advance?

Seems like with no backlight, you could make a 1080p matte version of those
that could push 60 somewhat streaky frames per second for like 0.5 Watts or
less.

~~~
hmottestad
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transflective_liquid-
crystal_d...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transflective_liquid-
crystal_display)

~~~
andrewla
I've had trouble finding a good source to actually purchases these for
hobbyist projects. Any pointers on sellers?

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filleokus
I would instantly buy a display that is intended to be put on top of my MBP
display, and that is suitable for use outdoor on a sunny day. Perhaps e ink
isn't even the most suitable technology for that task, but rather the old-
school transflective LCD's.

~~~
TuringTest
IMHO e-ink is much better technology for reading in the sun. Old-school LCDs
get a _shadow_ under each pixel, creating a double image that makes everything
blurry.

------
chx
Let me express my love for the Dasung not-eReader again as I did here a week
ago but this is an even more appropriate thread. To avoid reposting all that:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21999254](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21999254)

------
numlock86
Is grayscale achieved by dithering algorithms inside the FPGA controller or is
this some other E-Ink wizardry that actually can handle grayscale pixels?

I mean there was a HN post about a full RGB-E-Ink display last week or
something. Any spec or pricing is behind a NDA, though.

EDIT: Nevermind, they explicitly state it's 16 level grayscale.

------
hmottestad
Video link:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=Qb68B-MjmGs&...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=Qb68B-MjmGs&feature=emb_logo)

~~~
paranoidrobot
The video, if it's actually representative of the real product (not sped
up/contrast adjusted too obscenely) looks like it could be useful for semi-
static displays.

~~~
Fnoord
Yes, information billboards on railway station, bus, train. Though 10" is
perhaps too small for such. Bonus (IMO) it not being distracting with colors.

------
TylerE
[https://www.waveshare.com/product/oleds-lcds/e-paper/eink-
di...](https://www.waveshare.com/product/oleds-lcds/e-paper/eink-disp-103.htm)
\- since this link seems to be hugged to death

~~~
SamReidHughes
Oh, thanks. Looks like it has 5 Hz refresh at best. So, probably not good for
coding as they claim; 200 ms is a lot of lag for typing.

~~~
jascii
Sounds faster then the mechanical tty's I started out on..

~~~
SamReidHughes
Well I'm so smart only a Trinitron running at 85 Hz or higher can keep up with
me. (And, of course, without the correct mouse, Model M keyboard, Emacs
configuration, and thermostat setting, my productivity gets shot to hell.)

~~~
yellowapple
I feel personally attacked, lol

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fencepost
If I'm spending more than $500, I'd rather jump up to over $800 for 13.3" and
an Android based ebook reader. 2200x1650

[https://onyxboox.com/boox_max3](https://onyxboox.com/boox_max3)

Edit: but maybe the Waveshare experience is better than this
[https://blog.the-ebook-reader.com/2019/09/30/onyx-boox-
max3-...](https://blog.the-ebook-reader.com/2019/09/30/onyx-boox-max3-as-an-e-
ink-monitor-review-video/)

Edit2: that Onyx video doesn't look so bad...

~~~
xellisx
Or get a reMarkable...

~~~
fencepost
Definitely tempting, but I'm honestly more interested in an ebook reader
suited for larger formats and don't think I'd be a interested in a tablet as a
pad of paper replacement. My concern about the Boox devices in the past was
the already - EOL OS, but the newer one appears to have Android 9 instead of
the 6 of earlier ones.

~~~
xellisx
Same here, just can spend that much. Heck I can see spending 400 on a reader.

------
opdahl
In the promotion video they end on it saying that the display is «great for
coding». I have really never thought about using an E Ink display for
programming tasks, but given low enough latency and a well lit office wouldn’t
it be the ideal solution compared to normal LED/LCD backlight type displays?

From my experience using an Kindle it is way less eye strain, and reducing the
amount of strain, in this case hours every day, would have to have a positive
effect over time.

Maybe in the future it will be normal to have dedicated E Ink programming
displays.

~~~
srmatto
I've been waiting for this technology to improve to the point that a laptop or
portable computer could be made to write code while outdoors.

~~~
lolc
My understanding is that Eink is sitting on a lot of patents describing these
displays. When the first will expire in a few years we will hopefully see
competition with new formats.

~~~
ryall
By that time, maybe we’ll have high-res holo lens available, and eink will
have missed the boat

~~~
abdulmuhaimin
thats a vastly different usecase. Just like eink is still currently the best
screen for ereader, it still gonna be relevant for programming once it came
out with better refresh rate suitable for programming screen. You
underestimate the value of not having your eyes strained. And battery life as
extra. Pretty sure "holo lens" and other alternative gonna fail those aspects,
at the very least

~~~
TuringTest
Models based on the Canvas technology with A2 refresh mode are quite up to the
task for programming, if you can stand a little ghosting here and there. The
problem is, they're small (13'' max), and obviously more expensive, but not
more than a decent gaming monitor.

------
social_quotient
I’ve always wished there was a baby monitor display that was made out of this.
Seems like it would be a ton better than the light emission of the regular
screens all night.

In my room I’ve blocked out just about everything except that darn monitor -
these stickers helped a ton
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009WSJNCW](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009WSJNCW)

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JonasEldert
I've always found the value proposition of e-ink to be completely off. Is this
an actual cost of production, or does e-ink have some sort of business model
or patent problem that is getting in the way?

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unlit_spark
I really like the product, but I feel the price is a little too high for me at
the moment

~~~
nucleardog
Yeah I've got a few projects that would make good use of an eInk screen
(simplified UI, no colour or fast refresh needed, running off of batteries)
but... I built the entire project with a backlit LCD touchscreen for $250.
Over five hundred dollars kinda blows a big hole in the project budget.

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rbanffy
I wonder where the PixelQi screens ended up.

~~~
TuringTest
Basically what I heard from the Adam tablet, they couldn't guarantee reliable
build quality, so they ended up dying.

I've also found this:

[https://goodereader.com/blog/electronic-readers/the-rise-
and...](https://goodereader.com/blog/electronic-readers/the-rise-and-fall-of-
pixel-qi-how-it-shaped-the-e-reader-revolution)

~~~
rbanffy
I got the impression their fab subcontractor ditched them because of the low
volume. Unreliable build quality should not be a huge issue as the process is
very close to conventional LCD panels, although the pixel density is about 9
times higher than similarly specced LCD's. Maybe the diffractive layer it used
instead of filters was the issue...

In any case, it's a shame.

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DaveSapien
Maybe a good product for someone. Only if they dropped the hdmi mini port in
favour of both a full sized hdmi, and a USBC (power and display) port.

