
When You Watch Sports, Your Brain Thinks You’re Playing - prostoalex
http://nautil.us/issue/39/sport/the-unique-neurology-of-the-sports-fans-brain
======
mfsch
The whole notion of “your brain thinks …” is a common interpretation of fMRI
studies, but I think it is not very accurate or useful. It contains the idea
that what your brain does is somehow separate from what “you” are thinking and
doing. In practice, what we see in fMRI pictures is just the what the current
thinking and activity looks like in the brain. So even if you saw the same
patterns of activity for people watching and playing sports, that wouldn’t
mean that the brain “thinks you are playing”, it just means that your thinking
might be similar during both activities. As others have mentioned the article
does not reference the title, so this is a comment on the title only.

~~~
taneq
> It contains the idea that what your brain does is somehow separate from what
> “you” are thinking and doing

It's like those studies that can detect decision making a split second before
the person is consciously aware that they've made the decision. It's usually
presented as "'you' don't really make the decision", as if that person exists
apart from their brain.

~~~
mc32
>can detect decision making a split second before the person is consciously
aware that they've made the decision.

I think the revelation is that the decision people make is the negative one,
that the affirmative one is the default and the negative one is the one which
requires conscious effort.

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AndrewUnmuted
This lines up well with McLuhan's revelation that the search for identity is
usually correlated with violence [0]. By recognizing organized sports as a
"highly-organized form of violence" (his words) you can start to see the
corollary.

[0]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULI3x8WIxus](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULI3x8WIxus)

~~~
baxtr
In that sense FIFA is the world’s most successful peace organization funneling
national violence into sports

~~~
vanderZwan
_" Football is war"_ \- Rinus "The General" Michels.

For the non-soccer fans: Michels was the trainer who invented the Total
Football playstyle and was named coach of the century by FIFA in 1999[0].
Although I just learned from Wikipedia that the above quote is taken out of
context, I always thought it was an insightful one: football is _ritual_
warfare. And as the article suggests, we're probably better off for its
existence, because those tribal instincts are still in our DNA, and they need
to come out one way or the other.

And I say that as someone who really dislikes football, partially _because_ of
the tribalism.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinus_Michels](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinus_Michels)

~~~
Lewton
I don't think there's any particularly good reason to believe that giving
tribalism an outlet through sports is healthy. It might as well be that giving
tribalism an outlet leads to more tribalism. Kind of like how expressing
emotional anger might make you angrier[0]

[0]
[https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102344...](https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102344514&t=1531744331893)

~~~
vanderZwan
Play-fighting is different from real fighting, though.

~~~
moretai
Yeah people don't die. But there's a chance that energy gets dispensed through
other forms. I mean there is so much money in sports. There is so much money
in just exerting dominance. So much to gain. Notoriety. Plus, I can't even
begin to imagine the mental destruction that goes on in these players.
Depression, Ego Inflation to the point of psychosis. Why can't we transcend
domination and go back to play?

------
27182818284
I haven't skateboarded in more than a decade, but I've noticed that if I walk
by a good looking handrail or concrete ledge, my brain still automatically
starts picturing 50/50 grinds, different tail-slide combinations, and more. I
didn't play football in high school, but I have to imagine it is something
similar that continues on.

~~~
Bradenski
I skated for most of my youth and have the same thing going on. I was very
happy when someone from my area won SOTY also. I don't really see the same
magnitude of fandom during SLS ever occuring. Sometimes people really hate
Nyjah or really fan boy for Joslin. Maybe we'll see regional skateboarding
teams in the future, but for now we can enjoy skateboarding purely being about
the talent. The Olympics will definitely test the waters for this.

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hrktb
very interesting study. A caveat to the title:

> And the rules don’t apply as well to casual fans, Wann cautions. “This
> effect is most prominent among those who are most intense. In order to
> really reap the well-being benefits of fan identification, it needs to be a
> central part of your overall social identity.” The biochemical aspects of
> fandom only serve to reinforce those good feelings.

It’s not just watching sports, you need to be fully invested in the experience
in the first place. I think the same would be true to anything we truely
engage, like a chess or shogi live streams, or really anything we intimately
associate with.

~~~
craftyguy
Like politics (at least in the US). The similarities between fanatic sports
fans and fanatic political party 'members'/voters are quite great. Voters
generally want their 'team' to win, even if they know nothing substantial
about the candidate on the 'team' they are voting for.

~~~
stemcc
Sadly true. One can't help but fear the dark extremities of this
identification.

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mjfern
Maybe this is why toddlers love to watch shows like Ryan's Toy Review on
YouTube, which is just a kid playing with a variety toys with his parents.

~~~
randie63
Its sad that the parent's aren't playing with the toddler in the first place
and let him watch videos instead.

Someday if I decide when its time to get kids, I want to be in a position
where I can have as much time as I want for the kids.

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jcims
It’s not just sports, this happens with YouTube for me. Somehow watching
people do cool things with CNC sates my desire to spend $15K on a Tormach.

~~~
lobotryas
Let's be fair. Even if those videos weren't there the chances of most people
investing 15k on the hope of sticking to learning a complex skill are slim.

~~~
abakker
From the other side: watched the videos, bought a ton of stuff to have my own
machine shop. Now the videos are even more relevant - it’s the little things
that mean so much. (Like the fun tricks to know something is parallel or
square or the different ways to measure something).

It was really expensive, and I already had a background in automotive work and
woodwork to some degree, and a decent IT skill set, but damn, machining is
really gratifying.

~~~
jcims
Y'all are supposed to be talking me OUT of spending money. :P

------
cbanek
I wonder if this is why watching video games / e-Sports is also getting
popular, even though people complain there's not much physical skill involved.

(Yes, I do watch professional gaming myself)

~~~
eduren
As both a traditional sports fan and esports fan I agree that it can invoke
the same responses.

I see the "lack of physical skill" argument a lot and my typical argument
against it is endurance and mental performance. Esports players at their peak
train for 8+ hours a day and can compete for 4+ in some longer events. Doing
anything with your body for that long takes physical and mental conditioning.

I also see a lot of traditional sports detractors saying "What's the point of
just watching someone play the video game, seems boring" and it really blows
my mind how much of a disconnect there is.

~~~
moretai
I don't think there should even be a debate about what's nobler, purer, or
whatever for physical vs mental, athlete vs nerd. There is something that
seems to be pervasive in all forms of competition, and that is domination.
We've all felt it if you have played any sort of competitive game. Basketball
to call of duty. That feeling of helplessness, or that rush of just straight
up beasting. And if you can harness that domination, there seems to be an
avenue for money. Soccer, COD , Halo. Competition has a tendency to funnel
money.

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gukov
Similar can be sad about people getting emotional when watching something like
the Bachelorette (or anything sad/happy, really) no?

~~~
Bluestrike2
Or reading.[0][1][2] When we read a book, we put ourselves into the positions
of the characters and our brains react as if it were so.

0\.
[https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/brain.2013.0166](https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/brain.2013.0166)

1\. [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/novel-finding-
rea...](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/novel-finding-reading-
literary-fiction-improves-empathy/)

2\. [https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/18/opinion/sunday/the-
neuros...](https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/18/opinion/sunday/the-neuroscience-
of-your-brain-on-fiction.html)

~~~
Eric_WVGG
That certainly explains the success of “competence porn”

[https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/10744879/Are-
yo...](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/10744879/Are-you-hooked-
on-competence-porn.html)

------
Kagerjay
There really should be a comparison between both traditional sports, and
eSports.

My first esports (Dota TI internationals in seattle) outing really felt like I
was actually playing. I could appreciate all the moves that were being made
even if I couldn't actually do it in front of a computer.

Because esports is mostly done also sitting on a computer, there's also less
of a "barrier" than say in watching soccer. You aren't actively moving while
watching soccer

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nitwit005
"When You Watch Sports, Your Brain Thinks You’re Playing" doesn't match the
article title, or appear in the text.

~~~
RyJones
it is the title of the webpage, though. Pretty strange.

~~~
fjsolwmv
Pretty common to have clickbat headlines that don't match content. This was
true even before clicks were invented.

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isostatic
I suspect that this is related to this:

"Research into the link between domestic abuse and the football has shown that
reports of domestic abuse increase when the England team win or lose a
football match and that the instances increase with every World Cup
tournament."

[https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/world-
cup-2018-engl...](https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/world-
cup-2018-england-matches-domestic-violence-surge-football-
police-a8405871.html)

------
JohnJamesRambo
This would explain why watching your favorite sports team lose has been shown
to lower testosterone.

~~~
pretendscholar
I shudder to think what watching the Redskins year after year has done to my
body then.

------
JoeAltmaier
Ah! That's why I have no affinity for sports. Never played much. Basketball is
just 10 guys running up and down the court, almost always making a basket. Yet
for my friend Dean, he's leaning and jerking in his seat, experiencing every
moment. Plays a lot.

~~~
mkane848
Eh, I play a lot and still don't particularly care for watching most of the
time. At least not enough to be invested enough for a season. I'd rather play
than watch, though oddly enough I do enjoy watching Counter-Strike (which I
also play, though not nearly to the same level I got with sports)

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davidpaulyoung
The same happens when listening to a singing performance. Citation not
offered.

~~~
daledavies
If this is something you're interested in, I'm sure you'll find that citation
in this book...

[https://global.oup.com/academic/product/generative-
processes...](https://global.oup.com/academic/product/generative-processes-in-
music-9780198508465?cc=gb&lang=en&#)

------
return_True
After 10 years of coaching youth sports and observing parents, I think this
has something to do with 'mirror neurons', the ability of our brain to watch,
learn from and empathize with others. Just like you have an immersive effect
with a sci-fi movie and empathize with the characters and feel their plights,
so do sports fans. When it's your kid playing of course, it's intensified. Of
course, many are just straight up living vicariously through their kids.

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kilovoltaire
Only half relevant, but I'm reminded of "body english"

> bodily motions made in a usually unconscious effort to influence the
> progress of a propelled object (such as a ball)

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retox
I read a paper more than a decade ago about monitoring simian brains. They
noticed (I think it was by accident) that when a chimp watched another eat an
ice-cream, the same areas of the brain 'lit up' as if the chimp itself was
eating. It makes sense when you think about how invested people can get in
their favourite characters in TV and film.

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lgregg
It happened with me last night watching the movie Skyscraper, I could feel my
body twitching during the fight scenes.

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agumonkey
as a teen it was so strong for soccer that I could keep my legs from hitting
the table legs when eating dinner

~~~
83457
I wrestled growing up and did some grappling. When watching MMA matches for
years i could not sit still once they hit the ground. Was like I was working
through the movements I wanted them to make. Would drive my wife crazy sitting
beside me. It was all subconscious... usually just tensing my muscles and
leaning a certain direction plus my hands would get clamy. My wife would have
to point out to me what I was doing and i'd try to control myself lol

~~~
agumonkey
yeah, you're in it mentally, at least you want to be

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APCarr
The basic concept has been known to copywriters for a long time.

It can be used to create a sense of ownership by encouraging the reader to
'experience' the product being sold, just like you're more likely to buy a
product after playing with it in a store.

The effect is weak but it certainly does exist.

------
supergirl
the word brain appears once in the article content, once in the title and once
in an ad...

~~~
Godel_unicode
It appears twice in the article, along with the words neurochemicals and
neuroscience. Thank goodness clippy isn't in charge of rating scholastic
merits.

Edit: also biochemistry, biochemical...

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m0rphy99
In soccer you often see the coach standing on the side of the pitch trying to
do an imaginary heading of the ball when one of his players has a clear
opportunity to score, as if he's playing himself. Our brain is funny
sometimes.

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chiefalchemist
Both studies were of groups as a subset of larger groups. That is, these fans
were not individuals home alone. I'm curious to know how that might effect
their body's reactions.

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DoingIsLearning
If you are interested in reading more there is a lot of research in this area,
which would fall under the search term "mental imagery".

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emilfihlman
Not really surprised since we can learn by watching.

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djmips
I used to twitch when I watched hockey, when the pass came and I shot. I was
fully aware that I was 'playing' at that time.

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xfer
One of the reasons why "backseat-gaming" is used a lot in online gaming when
someone streams.

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buboard
when your brain watches anything, it thinks it is doing it. There is no reason
to have 2 brains, just because of TV and cinema exist.

next up, you lose weight by watching people run. although i think believe
someone has shown that already.

~~~
djmips
"it has been found that people who had watched promotional exercise videos
tended to consume more calories than they would normally, despite having not
done any exercise themselves" [https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/the-
running-blog/20...](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/the-running-
blog/2016/nov/02/why-dont-people-always-lose-weight-when-they-run)

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snek
this reminds me of that old article about exercising your thumb vs imagining
exercising your thumb... can't find the link to it though

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bedane
OK What about porn?

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bryanrasmussen
Your brain reacts as if you're playing.

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kleiba
Unfortunately, my hips don't.

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baby
So is it a good way to lose weight :)?

~~~
dragonwriter
No, because “brain” and “muscles” are different things. In fact, it's the
opposite, it's a way to satisfy a desire which _would_ reinforce health and
weight loss, without actually reaping any of the benefits.

~~~
buckminster
Didn't some recent research show that merely visualising exercise had
measurable physical benefits?

~~~
spydum
If I recall it was about weight lifting and mentally visualizing the lifts in
tandem with actual exercise. Pretty sure just thinking by itself did nothing.
So, it was three way comparison (lifting alone, visualizing plus lifting, and
just visualizing).

Edit: this is not that study but, along the same lines ..
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14998709/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14998709/)
pretty tiny sample though

~~~
fjsolwmv
In general, visualization improves performance of ant activity.

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TheJoYo
when I'm playing Mario Cart my brain thinks throwing shells is a reasonable
method of dealing with traffic.

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adreamingsoul
not for me

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gustavmarwin
Can we get the brain excited about positive-sum games? Dogs can run after a
ball, maybe as humans we can do better? Maybe we ought to do much better?

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Fire-Dragon-DoL
Does it? I get bored to death and start asking myself why I'm not playing
rather than watching others playing

~~~
corobo
It's specifically about fans though - you have to be absolutely fanatical
about the sport. If you're bored to death you're not into the sport, so you
don't get the same effect

