

Anybody here regularly lift weights? - ejs

I am looking for some beta testers for an app I am working on ( http://overtrainer.com/ ). If anybody out there wants to play around and give some feedback I would be greatful.<p>The app is for planning, logging and tracking results of workouts mainly weight lifting movements right now.<p>Thanks!
======
ejs
Link (for lazy people like me): <http://overtrainer.com/>

~~~
Alex3917
Why would you call a site for athletes overtrainer? That's like naming your
dating site herpesSpace.

~~~
kingkongrevenge
Most people I've seen taking a logbook approach to working out over-train...

First of all, if you have time to take notes or carry a water bottle while
working out, as far as I'm concerned you're doing it wrong. Pick up the pace.
It's almost always just porky nerds who have notebooks.

A structured planned mentality to lifting is counter-productive. In terms of
how much and how hard to go, you really need to listen to your body on any
given day. Some times your immune system really is telling you to take it
light and easy and wrap it up in fifteen minutes.

Also, it's most effective to dramatically vary routines and volume/intensity
quite randomly from a large repertoire of exercises to prevent habituation.
This simply doesn't produce useful time series, so notes are pointless.

Perhaps the biggest problem with a structured and planned approach to exercise
is that it's not playful. It's of the wrong mentality to enjoy yourself.

~~~
aaroniba
Without some kind of logbook, how do you even evaluate how well you're doing?

In my experience, most successful bodybuilders take a scientific approach to
their training. The main variables that affect physique are genetics, diet,
and routine. Different diets and routines work for different people, so to
achieve the best results it's important to experiment. A log book gives you
data to learn how to improve your routine.

Even your point on the importance of varying routines is best achieved by
using a log book. Try a steady routine for 3 months and measure your gains.
Then try "dramatically varying" your routine for 3 months and measure your
gains. Now you have data to support your own optimal workout plan.

Finally, to your point about picking up the pace: most routines involve rest
between sets, so if you log while resting then it doesn't slow you down.

~~~
vlad
Not genetics. Diet, Regular Workouts, and Sleep will lead to similar results
for a given age group. There is nothing in genetics that will make you inept,
except of course genetic mutations that are sometimes bad and sometimes good.
But for normal people, genetics do not matter. One will never reach their
genetic "glass ceiling" in fitness. I would also maybe add not having
injuries. Because that also stops a person from training as much as they could
otherwise.

What you eat and at which points you eat it, what and how regularly you work
out, whether you get enough sleep, and whether you currently have injuries are
the most important factors. A fifth factor would probably be whether you have
a workout partner to motivate you and spot you, so you always have a spotter,
and thus can push yourself harder and get the most out of each exercise.

~~~
aaroniba
Genetics has a huge influence over your physique. For example, if you take a
random sample of people who do not exercise regularly, there will be a wide
variation in their bicep sizes.

Genetics also controls things like metabolism and how well you respond to
weight training, so you need to adjust your diet accordingly. I do agree with
you that motivation and a good routine can create superior results in anyone.
I was just pointing out that some people will have to work harder than others,
diet harder, or eat more, or whatever.

~~~
vlad
I disagree. Genetics have very little influence over one's physique as long as
other more important factors are considered, such as the person's activity
level, amount of sleep, eating patterns, and work out routine. For a given
person, those will be the differentials.

Also, focusing on genetics ignores the fact that the exercise routines would
be different for each person. Without knowing one's own genome sequence, a
person who tries to stay active will learn what their body's preference is in
terms of exercise. For me, I focused on muscle size. Other athletes focus on
weight. Others focus on speed and conditioning. One will figure out which
sports their body is meant for soon enough if they exercise regularly. The
factors I've mentioned are also ones the person will learn to adjust--not
their genetics.

I don't know much about my genetics except that I'm taller than my parents.
But I have observed changes in my body after working out regularly. These
changes included improvements in metabolism, hunger, body mass, mood,
confidence, speed, and posture. My genetics presumably did not change in the
same span of time. (Neither are they something I can control.)

So therefore, the person's activity level, amount of sleep, eating patterns,
and a stable, consistent, work out routine are what matter the most.

Comparing two different people entirely (in other words, two people with
different genetics) is purely theoretical and not practical, as each
individual would have had different prior sports experience, confidence level,
access to quality foods, knowledge about nutrition, free time, and more. Even
if one did somehow match two people with the same activity levels at a given
point in time, they are almost guaranteed to have entirely different results
in the future for those reasons.

Similarly, two twins with identical genes will have huge differences in
fitness if one considers the factors I've mentioned and one doesn't. Also,
their metabolism levels, "bicep size", and other body features will be
noticeably different.

Genes might cap one's maximum ability: some people have genetic diseases
affecting their physical ability, while others have "caps" that are greater
than those of other people. But while in the first case it might be easier to
zero in on somebody's (physical) limits correctly, in everybody else, it is
impossible to tell how strong, fast, athletic, or muscular a given person can
be, or what their metabolism will be like, when they're athletic. Progressing
from spending 20 minutes exercising, three times a week, to playing sports for
2 hours at a time three times a week, lifting weights for 90 minutes four
times a week, and running for about 30 minutes a few times a week, all at
once, does not depend on one's genes. Also, I want to point out that it may
only be record-setting Olympic athletes who truly get close to their genetic
caps, and therefore genetics are not a factor for most normal people.

Finally, regarding bicep size, here is a quote from the first search result on
Google:

"Genetics play perhaps the most important part of not only how large your arms
can be but also their shape. Now if you are not a genetically gifted
bodybuilder do not take this statement as a cause for you to have a yard sale
and sell your weights. True, you may not be able to develop a 21” arm but this
will not prevent you from sporting an 18” or even 19” well shaped and defined
arm and whats wrong with that? A well shaped defined 18” arm is much more
impressive than a flat chunk of flesh that measures 21” anyway. It takes a lot
of time and experience before one can say for certain any lack of arm
development is due to genetics. Dont be quick in jumping to this assessment;
its the lazy way out."

<http://www.criticalbench.com/armmass.htm>

------
aaroniba
I think the user interface for data entry is the key problem in using software
to track gym workouts. I lift 4x per week and have tried various workout
logging software, but have yet to find anything that works better than a
simple notebook and pen.

A typical session's data includes 6 exercises, 4 sets each, weight and rep
count for each set, so 48 numbers altogether, all related to each other in
different ways. Plus I like to keep notes in the margin like "grip the bar
wider" or "slower negative movement".

If you can create an iphone app with a user interface that makes it really
really easy to enter workout data, then I think you would find a large market.
I payed for gyminee.com because I thought it might deliver this, but the data
entry was still too annoying. The built-in Notes program on the iphone was
actually better.

Also, as other people have mentioned, "overtraining" has negative
connotations, so I'm curious why you picked this name.

Best of luck. I think this is something people want.

------
whalliburton
I am of the opinion that lifting weights is just damage and not really useful
in comparison to many other activities.

I was a college football player and could put 375lb above my head, squat over
500lb and bench press 225lb over 30 times.

That said. That is not health, but damage.

Unless you can move your _own_ body weight efficiently what is the point in
lifting metal.

Try Tai Chi or some form of movement that works on integrating the control of
the entire body. Almost all weightlifting is isolating muscles and detaching
the control of the muscles from each other.

Muscles are also one of the weakest parts of the body structurally so
strengthening them does little for the overall strength of the body, which is
only what most weight lifting succeeds in doing . There are better ways to
strengthen the joints and bones and tendons and ligaments.

~~~
Alex3917
"There are better ways to strengthen the joints and bones and tendons and
ligaments."

First, lifting weights does strengthen bones via Wolff's Law. Second, lifting
also strengthens tendons and ligaments, but probably not the kind of lifting
you did for football. To strengthen these, you'd do something like 4 x 100
squats with 115lbs, ass to ankles.

~~~
whalliburton
But there are still "better ways". I was not discounting the ability of
weightlifting to strengthen bones, tendons, and ligaments, but to point out
that other ways may be more beneficial and healthier and have less negative
effects.

Weightlifting of almost all forms generally promotes overall tension in the
body, which, in my opinion, is not a good thing.

~~~
jksmith
Sorry, I'm calling bs on your lifts. Additionally, you don't know what you're
talking about. The sports athlete lifts (correctly) to enhance his/her body's
ability to generate force for a particular sport, that's all. If the athlete
does not lift correctly, that's not the barbell's fault. The Oly lifter
measurably generates more force than athletes in any other sport. Ex. When
Reza Zadeh weighed 300, at 6 ft tall he could high jump a 6 ft bar. (He's
about 370 now). Even well into my 30's, at near 300 I could standing long jump
over 10 feet. I throw stuff though, I'm not an oly lifter.

If you're trying to throw a baseball, lifting might slow you down, but you
won't be able to throw a 2k disc very far, and pitchers aren't very good
batters either. The top discus throwers in the world all have huge lifts, and
we all know what muscles do for batting.

But all this is off-point anyway. The thread starter just wants peeps to beta
for him. If you don't like to lift, or you don't like to keep a journal while
lifting, don't beta test.

------
mrtron
I workout regularly and have for quite a few years.

a) I don't track the numbers, I know what I lift without writing it down.

b) Overtrainer is a bad name...as mentioned. Over training almost never
happens and has a bad stigma. People have difficulty getting TO the gym, not
staying away.

c) I don't see it solving a problem. How many people do you know that say 'I
wish I could have better charts of my lifting amounts'? Or 'I wish I didn't
workout as often'.

Sorry for the negative feedback, but it's sincere.

~~~
seano
"How many people do you know that say 'I wish I could have better charts of my
lifting amounts'?"

BodySpace on bodybuilding.com, which does this, currently has over 200,000
active members - so quite a few actually.

------
ejs
Sorry I should have said please leave contact info, or email me at
erick@overtrainer.com if you would like to do some testing with it

Sorry about the ambiguity!

------
tdavis
I used to lift a couple times a day and am looking to get back into it, though
probably only once a day. I'd be happy to test out the app.

~~~
kingkongrevenge
Forty minutes twice a week is more than enough time if you're doing it right.
If you can lift two days in a row in perfect comfort you're doing it wrong.

~~~
tdavis
Actually it's exceedingly simple: You don't work the same muscle groups more
than every 2-3 days. Your argument suggests that if I do legs in the morning I
shouldn't be able to do bi/tri that evening for example, which is pretty
asinine.

We are talking about two different things. I was power lifting which involves
different workouts than total-body or body-weight exercises, for example. For
the most part, though, the morning was reserved for cardio and very little
lifting, mainly just some body-weight exercises.

40 minutes twice a week isn't nearly enough unless you're not looking for very
good gains.

------
unalone
I've just started working out in the last few weeks, now that college has
started.

1) Is your start-up one that would help me, new and inexperienced? If so, I'm
interested, providing:

2) Do you need people testing that aren't particularly skilled at working out?

Either way, best of luck with your app.

~~~
ejs
Although this is geared towards the more experienced I would like to hear your
thoughts as someone starting out. Let me know at erick@overtrainer.com if you
would like to play around with it.

Thanks

~~~
anamax
Market research question. Are there more people starting to exercise and
looking for help or more people who already are exercising and would like
help?

One difference between the two groups is that the former hasn't gotten past
the "most people quit after 2 months" stage. Is that more of a need than
better recordkeeping is for the latter? (Successful first products tend to be
painkillers, not vitamins.)

------
radley
How do we get the app or contact you for feedback?

Your page seems to only have a sign-up for notifications, but doesn't send a
response...

BTW - I've been looking for, and even considered developing, an iPhone app
like this. Most are made for runners and calorie-counters, not work-outs.

------
jotto
We should get in contact. I work on <http://voomaxer.com> and my mantra is to
prevent people from overtraining.

So far I only handle run/walk/swim/bike/sleep/heart/weight but I want to get
into weights.

------
anamax
You asked people what they thought and you're arguing with them.

If there are other people who like overtrainer, great. However, right now the
only feedback is negative. Until you've got more, you're wrong.

------
spydertennis
Hey, I lift almost everyday as well as doing cardio. I'd love to check out
your app and give you some feedback.

EDIT: sorry, realized i forgot my contact info and emailed you instead

------
mikesabat
Hi EJS,

I'm definitely interesting in testing out the app. I have given a lot of
thought to this. I used to work for pumpone.com and know a few of the issues.

------
muerdeme
I'd happily beta test. I currently use <http://www.gyminee.com> to track my
workouts.

------
donna
I do a morning routine using the program "Body for Life"..

------
phil_KartMe
nice tagline for the post. its a great idea to have beta testers be in your
target market

------
tdoggette
Me too!

Oh wait no, this is HN, not a general discussion forum. My bad.

