

Ceefax - A love letter - Jamiecon
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17745100

======
EdwardQ
I used to work as a sub-editor for Teletext. Writing 35-character headlines
for the analogue service was some of the best journalism training anybody
could have. I still remember some of the best:

Spurs move right, said Fred's agent

Sizzling Gasquet batters sorry Fish

Fish Mardy from Del Potro battering

(we liked Mardy Fish losing badly at tennis, particularly if he also had a
strop after)

For anybody with knowledge about British tennis out there, the following
became a running joke which we rehashed at every opportunity.

Bogdanovic suffers first-round exit

That must have been used a mind-boggling number of times.

We also did subbing for Ceefax, with its extra paragraph - but I'll always
have a bigger place in my heart for Teletext and its 40 x 24 character grids
(for text, 35 for headlines).

Romantics ire after death of Ceefax

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jgrahamc
Probably the most interesting thing about Ceefax and the other teletext
services was that it was a wonderful hack using the Vertical Blanking Interval
between TV frames.

See <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_Blanking_Interval> and
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletext#Data_transmission>

The VBI itself is a hang over to slow technology used in CRTs: _The VBI was
originally needed because of the inductive inertia of the magnetic coils which
deflect the electron beam vertically in a CRT; the magnetic field, and hence
the position being drawn, cannot change instantly. Additionally, the speed of
older circuits was limited._

The idea for Ceefax came from the BBC who were researching ways to send
subtitles for the hard of hearing:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletext#Development>

~~~
mjwalshe
And PRESTEL was another hack (and one produced by a PTT) they worked out they
could produce an asymetric modem standard 75/1200 to work with the slow speed
lines of the day.

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dclaysmith
This post is going to baffle a lot of US readers. I moved to Ireland in 2006
and had never seen anything like ceefax (it's Aertel in Ireland). I love how
old school it is--feels like a early 80's video game.

I admit I have found myself sitting at the pub "watching" scores refresh on a
soccer/gaa match when it wasn't on TV and I didn't have my iphone.

Teletext: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletext> Ceefax:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceefax>

~~~
Jamiecon
> This post is going to baffle a lot of US readers.

I must confess, this may have partially motivated my submission ;-)

I also loved the style the article was presented in.

Does anyone remember 'Bamboozle'?

~~~
gravitystorm
As soon as anyone says "Ceefax" or "Teletext" I think of Bamboozle. I'm glad
to see I'm not alone and there's even a wikipedia page about it:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboozle>

Not mentioned there, but there was one geek aspect of Bamboozle that I
remember. Given that a wrong answer would (at the time I played) send you back
to the beginning, it was tempting to try and note down the three-digit page
number of the question, to cheat and skip back to the latest question. But the
use of the 4 coloured buttons meant that the questions could use page numbers
with hex letters in them - e.g. 34F - rendering them impossible to type in
with a remote control. Sneaky, but it was a source of pride when I had figured
out not only that they used letters, but _why_ they used only A-F.

Also, Bamboozle inspired me to waste many hours making drawings on my (even by
then) old BBC Model B's Mode 7 graphics.

~~~
coroxout
Still not a perfect cheating deterrent, as when in doubt you could press each
button and see which one led to a unique page, as the wrong 3 answers all led
to the same losing page.

On my set, at least, you could change which page you were waiting for before
it loaded, so you could usually check all 4 in the few seconds between
dialling up a page and the data for that page arriving. I often did this,
perhaps I should be ashamed to admit.

Haven't looked at Teletext in years (though for some reason last year I needed
the "what's on now and next" page and found I could still remember the number)
but I have fond memories of Bamboozle, Digitiser and the kids' and music
pages, Mega-zine and Planet Sound.

------
petepete
I was a bit young to make the most of Ceefax/Teletext but the one thing I
truly loved and read many times a week for years was Digitiser on Channel 4's
Teletext service.

It was a magazine about computer games, written in a fantastically stupid
manner, full of daft jokes and innuendos and presented by a set of rather
offensive characters (Fat Sow and Insincere Dave being my favourites).

The 'limited' graphics added to it, in my opinion. It was also, probably the
only set of pages to make good use of the reveal button.

~~~
Jamiecon
I remember Digitiser, it was wonderful. I get the feeling that Ceefax /
Teletext was perhaps a redoubt for those who wanted to avoid too much
editorial.

And, another use for the reveal button: Bamboozle!

------
ldite
Nice and nostalgic, but a few inaccuracies;

 _Firstly, it could do the basics very fast._

...if you had a fancy TV that cached the carousel index pages. If not you type
in the page number you want and wait for it to cycle around in the carousel.
Which could be pretty slow on Oracle, as all those holiday ads played out.

 _If you were amending a page, it went through instantly, when you change
something on the web, it may go through instantly. Or it may not._

But if you're authoring for the MHEG interactive service on Freeview then it
can get pushed straight away. Apples/oranges comparison, really.

 _Secondly, it provided an instant and BBC-certified timecheck, accurate to
the second_

As does Freeview, and all other DVB platforms. Most TVs have a button to tell
you what time it is.

~~~
ticks
Bear in mind, it's from a TV viewer's perspective. It's fast compared to
waiting for a news bulletin.

------
sern
Here's how Ceefax used to be used for computer programs:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctxZWEVJ1S0>

~~~
jgrahamc
There was another way of getting programs from the TV used at the same time. A
lightpen was attached to the TV screen and a flashing white square in the
bottom right corner of the screen was used to transmit a program (a binary
stream) through the lightpen and onto the micro.

Does anyone else remember this and on which program it was done? It may well
have been Channel 4's Me and My Micro in about 1985.

Ah. This person says it was '4 Computer Buffs':
<http://www.tvcream.co.uk/?p=2347> Found it. Here's a video of how you had to
make the 'receiver' for this:
<http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=89458723914479030> and here's an
interview where there's the software being transmitted at the same time:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULGDTtGZcN0>

~~~
andyjohnson0
As an aside, during the 80s the BBC and some other European broadcasters also
transmitted software over the radio using BASICODE [1]. I remember taping some
of the transmissions, though I can't remember now whether I got any of them to
load into whatever computer I had at the time.

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BASICODE>

------
downx3
I was so looking forward to a more 'web like' replacement for Ceefax/Teletext,
to augment broadcasts. I never use the digital TV red button as it feels even
slower than the 70s technology.

Add to that that I can't even read what is on the screen. At least I can read
Ceefax. Perhaps it is because I don't have a TV display larger than 22".

The company that can add useful overlays to existing broadcasts - could clean
up: think Twitter/Wikipedia on the telly. A use for something like raspberry
pi?

~~~
DanBC
Menus for set top boxes feel painfully slow to me. Maybe I'm just impatient.

But I'd love something that can overlay stuff - "now and next"; subtitles; tv
schedules; 'your favourite programme is on in 5 minutes on the other side";
"Ann (who you trust) recommends this programme. Do you agree? [YES][NO]" (and
it builds up a score of trust in some reviewers, enabling discovery of good
programmes.

With a bit of human intervention you get some exciting possibilities. Links to
(as you mention) Wikipedia would be awesome for instant checking. Some people
would enjoy having tweets running on the tv.

Tie the news into a web search for other stories, or better analysis.

~~~
downx3
Agree - why so slow?

Would be nice to see an open implementation here. I was kind of thinking that
Google Tv might be that. But you really need the ability to overlay the
picture. I've considered placing a low resolution lcd next to the telly and
doing something myself. Something text based would be fine, it wouldn't need a
supercomputer.

When David Cameron visited the Queen to be signed in, I had a live Twitter
feed running and it was hilarious. I like the alternative commentary. You
could also do audio overlays - over the net. Or even (though a little
Orwellian) a webcam to communicate with your mates, something like hangouts.

The smart TV landscape and digital services are pretty confusing. It was
tricky enough choosing between Ceefax and Teletext.

Currently I resort to a laptop for lookups and my partner claws her smartphone
- which is pretty antisocial, and you miss the action.

~~~
follower
In the past I've thought about overlaying Twitter on live TV but don't watch
live TV enough these days to be particularly motivated to follow through.

I even picked up a "Breakout Board for MAX7456 On Screen Display"
<http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9168> which combined with a networked
Arduino should be enough to get something happening.

(I am available for consulting if you want someone else to do all the fun work
for you. :) )

~~~
downx3
That's pretty cool. I was thinking about something similar. Just the ability
to easily blend video signals. Say two inputs on the TV.

It would be good to then plugin a 'computer' something like the Raspberry Pi,
that would overlay the existing signal, or merge two video inputs (Would this
be simple digitally?).

It would be nice if there was meta info available alongside a program, that
you could hook into somehow, so you could do something useful with it. A cue
sheet or something. Having meta info about a playing scene could be useful.
Digitized credits would be nice.

~~~
follower
The biggest issue is with the move to digital from analogue TV signals. Then
you have the issue that any significant high resolution image manipulation
requires decent processing power.

Even more complications arise when you also factor in control technologies
like HDCP.

I was about to mention work that had been done by a guy "bunnie" and
discovered it's actually advanced from a hack to an actual product:

* <http://kosagi.com/w/index.php?title=NeTV_Main_Page>

* <http://adafruit.com/products/609>

Looks like that could be exactly what you're looking for. :)

------
downx3
See also a discussion here about Teletext, a similar service:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=996889>

------
ticks
I know a lot of the older generation will miss it. Especially those that don't
use traditional computers, yet regularly check the value of their shares etc.

~~~
corin_
I haven't used it in years so I don't have a problem of not being able to get
that information, but I will still miss it nostalgically - I'm 22, so not
exactly the older generation, but still grew up with ceefax being the best
source for TV listings, news/sport, weather, and indeed stock prices (which
without really understanding why I cared about because my dad cared about
them).

------
dcminter
Any afficionados of Ceefax might enjoy the spoof from the DVD of "Look Around
You" - itself a wonderful pastiche on the BBC's 1970s "programmes for schools"
public service broadcasts. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfsBT8fQ7_I>

------
sparknlaunch12
RIP

For many, this type of TV technology was their first exposure to "technology".

------
ajack
I'm fairly sure if I develop any sort of vision impediment in future years,
Ceefax will have contributed significantly to it.

