
Ephemeral is developing tattoo ink designed to disappear after a year - jimschley
http://techcrunch.com/2016/05/09/ephemeral-tattoos/
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aristus
Long long ago I was a tattoo artist. With very careful needle adjustments,
color choices, and a steady hand, this is already possible with conventional
inks. Simple example: white ink is titanium oxide, basically sunscreen, and
breaks down rapidly with exposure to UV.

But you are still gonna have scarring and roughening. If you're gonna get ink,
be prepared to have it for life.

Also, testing on pigs? Like, live pigs? I'd pay money to see that. :)

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ChristianBundy
> Also, testing on pigs? Like, live pigs? I'd pay money to see that. :)

Disgusting and shameful behavior, I can't believe that attitudes like this
still exist.

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PeCaN
Can't blame someone for finding pigs getting tattoos quite amusing. :-) You
know full well that it's not a big deal and you're just making edgy comments
for the sake of edgy comments.

For fuck sake dude, it's a pig. If you actually care about living things, do
something about the slave labor used to source raw materials for the computer
you wrote that on. I'm going to guess your conviction is about living
creatures in pain, not about pigs in particular. One of these is much more
disgusting than the other. Honestly who gives a flying fuck about a pig
getting a tattoo.

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pyre
> If you actually care about living things, do something about the slave labor
> used to source raw materials for the computer you wrote that on.

This translates to "if you can't save everybody 100%, then you shouldn't help
anybody." It's a self-defeating attitude that if something can't be done 100%
perfect that it shouldn't be done at all.

Would you tell someone that devotes their lives to working in soup kitchens
and helping the poor in first-world countries that they "aren't doing enough"
because there are people that "have it worse" than the first-world poor
somewhere else in the world?

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Chris2048
> If you actually care about living things, do something about the slave labor

The above would contradict that maxim. A better fit would be "don't waste
resources on less important things, over more important things".

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tvmalsv
You would probably still want to be selective about which tattoos you get and
where they are placed. Each session can create scar tissue which could be
noticeable even if the ink fades completely, and it can be harder to tattoo
over scar tissue as well.

Scarring isn't guaranteed, and to a large extent depends on the artist knowing
what they're doing, but still something to consider.

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chipotle2
Yup. The prevalence of scars is also fairly unknown because, well, the tattoos
are covering them up.

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lj3
Wouldn't the scars show up after laser removal, effectively making laser
removal moot?

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CydeWeys
Scars are skin color though, not pigment color. Also they're not nearly as
fine as the original tattoo was. What had bene an easily discernible intricate
design in a high contrast color will end up as an indiscernible mush of near-
skin-tone scar tissue, like a low degree burn that's healed.

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CitizenKane
I'm torn. On one hand, this invention will keep a lot of people from making
the very common mistake of getting ink they don't like and can't remove.

On the other hand, a beautiful part of this art form is that it is basically
permanent. To my mind, a tattoo loses a lot of its value of it's only
temporary.

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gjolund
I agree, all of my tattoo's were carefully planned, expensive, and constant
reminders of some very good memories.

If it is temporary how is it any different than a hair cut?

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biot
A temporary tattoo is like dating somebody. A permanent tattoo is like
marrying somebody. To me it's completely logical that you might want to try a
tattoo on for a while and, if you like it enough, you can commit for life and
make it permanent. Otherwise, if you jump straight into tattoo marriage and
you don't like it, you're looking at a laser divorce.

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merqurio
If they really have a solution that is safe and they prove it, they will
really disrupt the tattoo market. Losing the fear with a solution like this
one will make people want more tattoos for sure !

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daveguy
Safety is definitely the number 1 concern. I'm not sure how long trials will
need to run before they can confirm there is no increased cancer risk.

Also a concern. If it's gone in a year, what does it look like in 6 months?
Are you going to look like you have a nasty blob-bruise for 6 months as the
definition fades and the ink migrates?

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jessriedel
There is absolutely no way that they can take enough statistics to prove that
there's no increased cancer risk. i don't think we even know whether _regular_
tattoos increase cancer risks.

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TheSpiceIsLife
How common is cancer in Australia?

 _In 2016, it is estimated that the risk of an individual being diagnosed with
cancer by their 85th birthday will be 1 in 2 (1 in 2 males and 1 in 3
females)._ [1]

According to at least one source[2] 14.5% of Australians have a tattoo.

I'm going to go with tattoo ink _not_ being a major cause of cancer. If it
were you would expect to see more skin cancers local to the tattoo, or some
other particular type of cancer more common among those with tattoos.

I think we've got bigger problems than any potential cancer risk form tattoos.
Bigger problems like alcohol, cigarettes, benzene in petrol, vehicle exhaust,
combustion of coal for electricity, consumption of processed meats - these are
all _known_ carcinogens[3].

1\. [https://canceraustralia.gov.au/affected-cancer/what-
cancer/c...](https://canceraustralia.gov.au/affected-cancer/what-
cancer/cancer-australia-statistics)

2\. [http://www.disappearink.com.au/post/tattoo-statistics-
austra...](http://www.disappearink.com.au/post/tattoo-statistics-australia/)

3\.
[http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/othercarcinogens/g...](http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/othercarcinogens/generalinformationaboutcarcinogens/known-
and-probable-human-carcinogens)

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zck
One interesting use for this would be to get a tattoo you think you want to be
permanent, and then when it fades, decide if you liked it enough to get it
redone with permanent ink.

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k-mcgrady
Your doubling the cost of a tattoo though and they're already pretty
expensive. Wouldn't it make more sense to just be certain you want one before
you get it and save hundreds of dollars?

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zck
> Wouldn't it make more sense to just be certain you want one before you get
> it and save hundreds of dollars?

Sure. But how can you be certain? I have no idea what it's like to have a
tattoo, or whether I'd regret it. Would I be too self-conscious about having
it? Or would I enjoy seeing it in the dark?

I've had one specific one in mind for most of my life, but I don't know if I
want it. If I were able to get a fading one, I'd be way more likely to jump on
it. The increased cost is nothing compared to being able to decide if I
actually like the damn thing.

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CX4048
Just get a henna tattoo of what you are wanting. If you don't miss it after
it's gone, then don't get the tattoo. Pretty straight forward and shorter
waiting period for evaluation.

I jumped the gun and got mine having been in the same predicament and don't
regret it. Having thought about it for years, it was easy with just a little
nudge.

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pbhjpbhj
But note some people are allergic to [black|] henna and some people get left
with permanent markings/scarring.

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geoelectric
Now I'm picturing National Security Letter canary tattoos for technical
activists.

~~~
WiseWeasel
It's all fun and games until you get a court order to have it redone every
year.

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khabaal
I am very skeptical about this, because when tattoo ink fades, it accumulates
inside the lymphatic system, it is not flushed out of the body.

Black ink, for example, colors the lymph nodes within the area of the tatoo
completely black. Black ink is made out of soot which often contains
polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, a carzinogen.

So if they say their product is "designed to break down after a year" and "By
using smaller molecules, we’ve encapsulated them inside this spherical
structure that’s big enough that your immune system doesn’t take it away. But
when you remove it, it essentially eats away one of the components and the dye
molecules are flushed out", i really wonder if this could quickly develop into
a real health problem.

Smaller molecules really sound like nano particles and since tattoo dye is not
flushed out of your body, i tend to assume those nano particles will
accumulate inside the lymphatic system. And what about that "spherical
structure" stuff, what is it made of? And that "removal solution" they talk
about on their website, the symbol next to it looks like its also tattoed into
the skin.

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rfrey
If this really works, getting a tattoo will be no more edgy than getting your
hair dyed. Tattoos will rapidly fall out of fashion.

~~~
danieltillett
Tattoos will fall out of fashion no matter what happens.

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shultays
Well, 5000 years and counting.

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danieltillett
I think tattoos are even older than this. Tattoos will continue to exist, but
they won't be fashionable.

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masklinn
> I think tattoos are even older than this.

Ötzi is the oldest tattooed body we have and thus the oldest hard evidence of
that practice.

While there is peripheral evidence of probable earlier tattooing (Cucuteni-
Trypillian sculptures, and how wide-spread confirmed tattooing practices are
circa 1000~2000BCE), we don't have anything hard before Ötzi (circa 3000BCE).

Incidentally, Ötzi's tattoos seem to be therapeutic rather than artistic.

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k-mcgrady
$50-100 for an average sized tattoo. So that's the price before you even pay
the artist to do the work. Quite a big premium. I'd say the 'average' sized
tattoo (something large on your bicep but not fully covering it or wrapping
around it) is probably $300 and most of that cost is labour. Add the price of
this expensive ink and you're paying $350-400 - for something that's going to
disappear after a year.

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mbillie1
Not to nitpick but $50-100 buys you typically an extremely small, single-color
tattoo in many places. My last tattoo was a simple flag about 2x3" with 3
colors and a geometric design and cost around $120. Not sure what an "average"
size tattoo is, but you're already looking at $350-400 for say, a 3x6" full
color tattoo of any appreciable complexity.

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k-mcgrady
As scott_s pointer out $50-100 was just the price of this special ink. So for
the extremely small tattoo price you're quoting this ink doubles the total
cost and only lasts 1 year.

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tacon
About ten years ago, I remember an article about a special tattoo ink that was
encased in laser-sensitive capsules. When irradiated, the capsules burst and
the ink was absorbed virtually completely. The thing that outraged me was that
they were having a hard time selling it, as tattoo "artists" were refusing to
have their "creations" be removed at the user's behest. Most artists were even
refusing to tell their customers that removable ink was an option.

Since criminals don't have resumes, tattoos used to be their signaling
mechanisms. As suburban kids began to make that signalling useless, a few
years ago I read that criminals had moved on to painful eyelid tattoos. A
quick Google search shows that didn't slow the posers down very much. I wonder
how criminals signal how badass they are these days?

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BurningFrog
It would be really helpful to tattoo the current year on my arm each NYE!

~~~
jqm
If indeed it's gone one year to the day later.

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mhays
The only thing stopping me from getting an arm sleeve is knowing it will be
there forever, and during future times when I can't have one.

Though if it lasts 12 months, by month 8 will I have a half-faded looking
thing that I either have to retouch, or deal with until it fades completely?

~~~
gjolund
If you are worried that you won't like your tattoo in 20 years, then you are
correct in not getting one.

If you are getting a tattoo because it looks cool right now, save your money
and just get a better wardrobe.

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Chris2048
Clothes are petty expensive tho

~~~
gjolund
nowhere near as expensive as a well designed and executed tattoo.

~~~
Chris2048
It takes multiple items of clothing for a single outfit, so I'm not so sure
about that.

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steele
I guess the market is there but I bet there are better applications than
tattooing. Disappearing ink probably isn't worth the discomfort for many
tattoos. But hey, tattoo ink isn't exactly the most innovative space so it's
cool to see a fresh idea

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cmdrfred
It has been fun to watch this previously considered so dangerous become so
mainstream. Something like this and you'll have tween girls having tattoo
parties.

~~~
gjolund
If it didn't leave scar tissue I could see people getting tattoos that evolve
over time, where an artist re-works a patch of skin every year.

Imagine fashion week 2050 where models are rocking temp tattoos designed to
last the season. Could be rad, could also be really obnoxious.

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aortega
It would be interesting to see all the failed non-disappearing tattoo
prototypes.

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supercoder
This sucks for everyone with the old permanent model

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nostalgiac
I don't see how at all.

Everyone (including myself) that has been tattooed KNOWS they were going to be
permanent before they got them. If they wanted a removable option they
wouldn't have got them in the first place.

A lot of the appeal of tattoos is because of their permanence and the
commitment that resembles.

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solipsism
Oh good, _even more_ barbed wire biceps, carp sleeves, black fore-arm stars,
"tribal" patterns on white dudes, spiderwebs, hummingbirds, infinity symbols,
and other ways for people to show how eager they are to express their
"individuality"!

Edit: Down-vote me if I offend your tattooed rebellious self-image, it's fine,
but there's a real point to be made. This technology will lead to a lot more
tattoos, and a lot more homogeneity and poor designs. I know people with
tattoos that most people would actually call legitimate "art", and I know some
of them wouldn't be particularly thrilled by the further "watering down" of
what they consider an important part of their identity.

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askldfhjkasfhd
The downvotes are because your comment added nothing to the discussion beyond
expressing your distaste for people who dare decorate their body in a way that
indicates membership in a group you personally have distaste for.

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solipsism
Yes, and the up-votes were because the up-voters understand nuance.

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steele
Nah, they are probably salty folk like yourself that got a chuckle from your
open mic night tattoo joke because you typed what they were thinking but chose
not to comment because it little to do with the actual article or because your
complaint was a complete work and they felt they could add nothing and echoing
the sentiment would be ironic in this context. With that said, you articulated
one of the most clichéd reactions to fad tattoo designs.

