
Ask HN: What is your strategy to handle recruiters asking for salary? - tomrod
I am at a stage in career where, while I interview occasionally for new roles, I also mentor quite a bit. I&#x27;m finding recruiters are getting especially pushy these days with junior folks, and even senior&#x2F;directory levels.<p>How do you handle this part of the initial negotiation?
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jppope
Couple of things that might be helpful:

1\. Ask them what the compensation is for the role earlier in the interview
process. If you are feeling bold/pushy yourself you can start by asking them
to explain their compensation model for finding a candidate and discuss
whether or not they are working for candidates or the company. (This gets
recruiters on edge making them less likely to look for firm numbers from you)

2\. Start by asking about what they offer in non-salary compensation, and be
as detailed as possible. There are big differences in equity, health care
coverage, 401K match, etc... work your way up to salary.

3\. Use your current compensation (TC) to stress that you want a reasonable
percentage increase... TC should include estimates for how much your health
insurance costs, bonus, perks at work, severance (conferences, food/ beverage,
company functions, etc).

4\. Use the stack overflow developer survey to figure out roughly what your
comp should be. Focus on getting to the high end of the salary range. If you
good they should have to "think about it"

Also going to throw this out there... dumb companies worry about how much
someone will cost, smart companies worry about the value that someone will
bring. So if you keep on running into this you should probably look at
different companies.

~~~
giantg2
Strongly agree with 2 and 3. If you can phrase it in total compensation, then
you can throw them off the single salary number because now there are multiple
variables in play and you can more easily provide reasoning behind your
positions on salary, vacation days, etc.

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stakkur
I do (say) two things, whether it's a third party, HR recruiter, or
interviewing person:

1\. "It's too early in the process for me to discuss compensation. If we both
decide it's a good fit, then I'm sure we can work out reasonable
compensation."

2\. If they press, I reiterate. Sometimes repeatedly. Sometimes I ask "is
salary expectation one of the criteria you use to decide who you'd like to
work with?" If the answer is 'yes', then I politely decline to continue.

Sometimes, they'll say "We have to know your salary expectations to continue".
That's a big red flag for me, and I decline there, too.

Last: If they're snippy about it, I sometimes ask "What's your budget for the
position?". I've _never_ had someone actually tell me.

Fundamentally, it's a negotiation, and the other party is trying to get
information to leverage in the negotiation. Don't give it to them. Keep your
power.

~~~
janbernhart
I don't fully agree with this. (I am an inhouse recruiter). When salary is
discussed before an actual offer, it's to make sure the candidate and the
company are in the same ballpark. I never ask for a precise number, and im
happy the share the likely range that my employer pays for position X. It's
just such a waste of time if at offer stage we find out we can afford you.

~~~
stakkur
I've heard this exact response in interviews--we want to know if we're 'in the
ballpark' so we don't 'waste time', which is another way of saying either
'this is our budget' or ' we don't want to pay more than this'. Everything I
said still applies to how I'd respond.

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sethammons
I open with my base price, which is several times what most firms plan on
offering.

"Hi, thanks for reaching out. I'm very happy where I currently am. Lemme know
if you can beat ${2X FAANG Total Comp), 5 wks vacation, and fully WFH (before
COVID was a thing), with a great collaborative culture dealing with scaling
highly available systems. Cheers!"

Usually, the response is, "wow, great gig. We will circle back at a later
time."

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sharemywin
I honestly just tell them what I want which is at least 10K above what I make
now or it's not worth it. And if they ask what I make now I just point out
it's not worth leaving for something lateral.

~~~
dave_sid
I agree. Seriously, don’t overthink it. Just come out and say what salary you
are looking for and that’s that.

~~~
jshawl
If you say you're willing to accept an offer at 50K less than they had
budgeted for, you just lost 50K.

~~~
austincheney
For the right team and product I’m willing to give up $50k. I hate the
incompetence associated with the software industry so much that I am happily
working a temp job in management in a different industry on the other side of
the world. The only thing stressful about this is knowing it’s temporary and
when the party is over I have to go back to the corporate software job. I am
considering doing absolutely anything else for half pay and letting the wife
figure out how to make up the difference.

~~~
giantg2
Are you me?

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qppo
I did a lot of interviewing and speaking with recruiters last year. I imagine
that 2020 is significantly different than 2019, so take this comment with a
grain of salt.

In my personal experience, recruiters that asked this did not have a serious
potential for a new job. That's because recruiters are either 'retained' or
the equivalent of bounty hunters. The latter are the kind that have the least
information/contact with the hiring manager and are just trying to get the
most number of applicants. It's a hustle, and it should be shamed within
industry.

One should ask if they're retained first, in the initial reply (they may lie,
such as all the recruiters I spoke to for a role at Qualcomm). If they aren't,
the conversation is likely fruitless, because their incentive is to get your
resume to the hiring manager (who they have not spoken to) and not to fill the
position. This means they have very little information about the job or team
or its potential compensation.

To contrast this, some recruiters are plugged into the team and trying to
actually fill a role that the hiring manager is too busy to take a part in the
search. These folks are great, they usually are extremely insightful and _up
front_ about the compensation if you ask.

And more importantly, don't tell someone what you're currently being paid -
ever. It's illegal for a company to ask in California, and should be illegal
everywhere. If its a required field on the form, put the market value + 15% or
something like that.

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AnimalMuppet
If they're asking for my _current_ salary, I've considered saying that it's
not a relevant number. The numbers that are relevant is what it would take for
me to take the job, and what the job is willing to pay.

I wonder, though, if the recruiters are asking because they've lost their feel
for the market. Maybe they're trying to find out what realistic salaries are
so that they know what to get for the people they're placing.

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logicslave
I say, is your compensation inline with a FAANG engineer? They know what
compensation I'm talking about. It usually ends the conversation

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muzani
I find there's four monthly salary numbers in my city: 2500 for junior, 4000
for not junior, 10000 for a senior, 20000 for a 10x.

As soon as you ask for something in the higher tier, the expectations change.
If desperate for a job, you can ask for a lower tier, something like 3800 or
9400. The higher your tier, the more people have to approve the salary, the
more complex the process is, and the higher their expectations before they
fire you. I got my current job asking for a lower tier, and they hired me 12
hours after the interview.

Benefits are much more complex but usually non-negotiable with recruiters.
Whatever benefits is usually not worth the salary change. I normally care
about things like no open office over insurance, or having a good keyboard and
work chair over gym plans. I've seen drastic changes like $2000 salary drop in
exchange for $50 in parking benefits, so they're usually not worth bothering
with.

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probinso
Typically I give them a large range. Something large enough that is
meaningless for pinpointing, but provides a sane bounds for my living
expenses. I think for my current job I gave them a 40K difference (from low to
high). I then tell them that the income is significantly dependent on the type
of work and my working environment and benifits. I tell them that I would need
to know more about the working environment, and I tell them an example or two
of an income that I have made and the corresponding environment

Sometimes recruiters counter offer with a more narrow range. Sometimes they
respond by saying we have positions in that range. If they ask me to become
more narrow immediately, I respond that is a function of the interview process

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Nginx487
For offline job I always take a break to do a detailed research about local
market, median/max salary, cost of living. Here I often withdraw my
candidature due to unsatisfactory Software Engineers compensation in the
region. If I decide to proceed, I put myself in highest 20% of distribution.
For online it's much easier, I use rates of top Upwork contractors and Toptal
(which are already top) and ready to negotiate 10-15% as usually it's fulltime

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zuhayeer
Don’t give them a number. Instead reflect the question back at them by asking
for the range for the role. Giving up any information at this point loses you
leverage and gives them something to anchor on even if it is much higher than
your expectations.

PS. I’m one of the founders of [http://levels.fyi](http://levels.fyi) and we
help folks out with this quite a bit

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Trias11
Figure the highest number you can get paid for the job.

Add 10-15%

You may add word "negotiable"

If recruiter insists on knowing your current slary - lie with ~above number.
It's not their business knowing.

Also:

Recruiter is never your friend (even is he is presenting himself this way).
Everything you tell him, may and will be used by him to increase possibility
of him getting commissions. Your career and compensation level is his lowest
priority.

~~~
muzani
> Your career and compensation level is his lowest priority.

What one recruiter (a good friend) told me is that I should just put a high
number, because he charges commission based on the salary offered.

Also negotiable means they have to negotiate. Expect it to be 10% lower than
the offered number. I've had someone negotiate as far as 33% when the offer
was already very low but that kind of low balling destroys trust.

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scott31
I always say 2x of my target salary, and later add a note that I could accept
a 50% pay cut. You'd be surprised how often it works.

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aprdm
I honestly have no patience for this dance. I just throw a number I would be
very comfortable with and if it is too high then that's OK. If I left
something on the table then that's also OK because I am comfortable with.

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jshawl
"I'm looking for the right fit in a career and am open to many different
compensation options".

and then after three or so more iterations of that:

"I appreciate your persistence but there's truly no single thing, including
salary, that would convince me to accept or pass on an offer"

~~~
jshawl
but.. what if they lowball in the end? isn't that a reason to give up your
expected salary?

IMHO I'd rather have the interview and negotiation experience than the time
back. Practice makes perfect.

~~~
batmaniam
Yea but what about 2-3 years down the line? You've basically set the baseline
at which the recruiter will start from. Your next jump will be just maybe +5k
instead of +20k since they know how much you made.

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chrisBob
Mine is public record. If someone asks they are probably not local and I can
ignore them since I am not interested in moving right now.

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emteycz
I ask the range, and if they don't want to give one, I ask for an unusually
high but still realistic rate.

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patatino
I tell them what I'm making now, which is my current salary + whatever I wanna
earn more.

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quickthrower2
I ask them for theirs.

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pards
Hahaha ... has that ever worked?

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literallycancer
Look up what people are getting at levels.fyi or blind app and reply with
those numbers.

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tomrod
Issue with this is that the data science/tech market is only a fraction of
available companies with roles.

