

Ask HN: How do I make myself competitive for a master's in CS after college? - abossy

I graduated in May with a B.S. in the computer sciences. I would like to apply to a competitive master's program in 2-3 years.<p>During undergraduate, most of the focus on graduate school admissions was for Ph.D. programs, for which there are fairly standard ways of making oneself competitive: get great grades, do a thesis with a well-known professor, get to know a couple of teachers to have good recommendations, and get an 800 on the quant portion of the GRE (with an emphasis on research and recs). During the time between undergrad and grad school, what can I do to make myself a competitive candidate? Furthermore, what do master's degrees admissions emphasize in contrast to Ph.D. programs?<p>I am particularly interested in a few "elite" programs--not because of their brand name, but because I constantly see "great" minds in the field come out of there. I feel being surrounded by such people would give me the greatest return. Specifically, I would like to apply to the MIT Media Lab and the Stanford Symbolic Systems program. So, for another point of discussion, should I work as hard as I can to make myself a great computer scientist, apply to 10 or so solid schools, and hope I am accepted by one or two of the best ones? Or should I focus my goals on what a specific program values?<p>EDIT: Related thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=422773
======
menloparkbum
The Media Lab is totally different than the Symbolic Systems program and both
are completely different than the CS programs at their respective schools (and
any other school.)

The Media Lab does not require the GRE nor does it require that you even
really have any formal training in computer science or engineering. It's more
like an MFA program than an engineering degree. However, you do have the
opportunity to take cool engineering courses if that is your bag.

The Media Lab is a joke academically but it is the easiest way to get a
graduate degree from MIT. If you align yourself with the right projects and
professors it can be a much better experience than a "real" master's program
and you can parlay the experience into a cooler career than most. If you align
yourself with the wrong projects it is a massive waste of time. It is unique
in that it is a funded master's program so at least you won't waste any money.

The way to get into the Media Lab if you didn't go to MIT as an undergrad is
to create a portfolio of cool projects that look like what the research groups
you are interested are producing. For instance, if you want to get into the
computational photography program you should start writing some photo
manipulation programs and build a blog about them. It also helps to become
friends with the professors there.

If you didn't get an undergraduate degree in Symbolic Systems at Stanford you
are ineligible for the master's program. It is a "co-terminal" degree which
means it is essentially just an extra year after undergrad.

~~~
mikemintz
You no longer need an undergraduate degree from Stanford to do a symsys
masters:

<http://symsys.stanford.edu/ssp_static?page=msinfo.html>

~~~
abossy
Thanks. I thought this would be a (major) detail I wouldn't have overlooked.
:)

------
physcab
Concentrate on what you love. Honestly, there is too much focus on getting
into "great" or elite programs. Every school has advantages and disadvantages,
and graduate programs function VERY differently than undergraduate programs.

The best thing you could possibly do for the next two years is hone in on a
specific area of interest. Try to be as introspective as possible. Are you
fascinated by the physics of gaming? Do you want to improve human-computer
interaction? Are you an expert code-monkey who just wants to create a useful
and intelligent program with new tools?

If you can establish yourself as an expert, more or less, graduate schools
will take you on without question. They will evaluate you on your ability to
be successful. Everyone knows that the GRE (and sometimes a GPA) are horrible
metrics for success in graduate school, but sometimes they are the only pieces
of information a school has to evaluate you. The worst thing that can happen
is that they hire you (for a PhD program) or offer you a scholarship, and you
end up flunking out, quitting, or never finish.

However, if you follow your heart and show your competency in one or two
specific areas, you will be a gem. Then you will also get the most out of
graduate school. You will have access to so many excellent resources like free
journals, experts in the field, and open up doors for future careers.

Graduate school can be an incredible opportunity or somewhat depressing. What
I've found is that those who are most ready, emotionally and academically, do
amazing things, but those who are not tend to flounder.

You want to be ready, so do yourself that favor.

Please feel free to contact me if you want to chat a little bit more about the
experience.

~~~
physcab
If I could respond to my own comment, I would also like to offer one other
piece of advice:

If you're learning towards graduate school, research the GROUPS and not the
schools. Even within departments you will have a variety of experiences, and
knowing what you want well in advance is key. Here are some observations about
advisers (if you change your mind and end up applying for a PhD program):

\- Young professors generally are trying to build their name in the community
and will work you like no other. You will probably publish often. Stress is
common.

\- Middle-aged professors at the height of their career will generally be not
available to you. This is when they travel to conferences and meetings. Your
_real_ adviser will probably be your Post-Doc.

\- Retirement-bound professors will be freely available and have a wealth of
experience through which you can draw upon. They generally care less about
department politics and more about your personal happiness and success.
However, they probably won't pressure you as often to get things done (may be
good or bad).

------
lacker
Apply for a PhD. If you get in, you can bail after you get your master's, and
they pay you if you are a PhD student. A professor at a top-25 CS grad school
once told me they accept almost every American citizen who applies to the PhD
program because it's so much cheaper - so worst case, you should be able to go
to a well-known school that has merely a good CS program.

~~~
Xichekolas
> _"because it's so much cheaper"_

... cheaper to pay Ph.D. students than full time staff you mean? Or am I
reading this wrong?

As I wasn't exactly an all-star in undergrad (3.52), I'm trying the route of
getting a masters at a second tier school (and attempting to be an all-star
while I'm there) in the hopes of leveraging that to get into a top tier
school.

Also gives me an easy way to bail if I find I don't like it as much as I hope
I do.

Of course, if this plan is idiotic, someone should point that out. The CS
school employs a lot of Masters students for TA/RA positions, so I'm not too
worried on the money front.

~~~
redrobot5050
No, he means its "so much cheaper" to pay for American Grad Students versus
foreign ones who need Student Visas. I've been told by a professor who's
brought in Chinese grad students (he himself is Chinese) that its really hit
and miss. And you put up a bond for their visa -- they bail on your program or
commit a felony, that's your grant/research/grad student funding money going
out the window. It doesn't happen very frequently, but it does happen.

Another situation with foreign grad students is that they get here, and after
a year or two of abuse in a lab, they go get a life, and get married or (iff
female) get pregnant. Then, their work ethic trends "Average American" and
they adopt the "take this job and shove it" attitude.

------
mainsequence
I'm not a student at the Media Lab, but I do go to MIT and have some friends
there. From what I have seen, it helps to have some good artsy-techy projects
under your belt.

I don't think they require the GRE to get in, and I'm not sure how important
grades are if you've done some interesting projects. I think they want some
form of "accomplishment" combined with decent coding skills.

Admission is to specific research groups, so I'd look at the site, find a
group doing work that interests you and contact the professor or some of the
researchers in the group. Can't hurt to ask them what makes a strong
candidate.

------
surfmike
Do research. Read the journals where the professors you'd like to work with
publish, and work on research in that area. If the program you're applying to
is primarily focused on research, this is the most important thing they're
looking for-- your ability to publish and do research.

------
cmos
If it's the MIT media lab you really want, which always seemed like an amazing
experience, then figure out a way to visit, meet the people, and understand
what they are doing.

Doing your own projects/research and publishing them would help to get your
name out there. I'm not an 'academic' by any stretch, but that's what I would
do if there was a job/opportunity I really wanted.

Do something amazing and doors will open.

Apply through the 'machine' and there will always be hundreds of people
competing in the GPA/undergrad arena, and chances are they all have a better
GPA than you.

------
tokenadult
I agree with the advice already given that the best way to be admitted to the
programs you desire is to be ready to apply to a strong Ph.D. program.

But why do you desire the master's degree? Can't you meet great minds in
private industry?

~~~
abossy
> But why do you desire the master's degree? Can't you meet great minds in
> private industry?

You absolutely can. However, I enjoy the academic environment as a platform
for personal development and have made achieving a graduate degree a personal
goal. I actually desire a Ph.D., but the 5+ year commitment doesn't exactly
align with my other goals. I am also attracted to entrepreneurship and feel I
would reach a point of diminishing returns at the 3-4 year mark. Hence, a
master's degree (notably the programs I mentioned) are a good compromise.

