
The Oatmeal fights back, snaps photo of cash, sends money to charity - evo_9
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/07/the-oatmeal-fights-backs-snaps-photo-of-cash-sends-money-to-charity/
======
Vivtek
Carreon's wife sounds even crazier than Carreon himself, apparently saying
that there is a conspiracy of actual grammar Nazis killing Americans and that
the Oatmeal is part of it.

You can't make this stuff up, folks.

~~~
gms7777
Right? Reading the second response by his wife was particularly disturbing.

"...Just look at their cartoons. They like to kill. They think it's fun to
kill. They think their friends will admire them if they kill. Without mercy!

...They are stupid, silent people, who are absolutely worthless to our
society. Really, what good is their life, but a burden to the planet?"

She is accusing "these people" of being murderers? Honestly, from the
following comments, I'm quite a bit more concerned that this whole story will
end with her going on a killing spree.

I'm slowly becoming more and more convinced that this is one majorly elaborate
practical joke, concocted by the oatmeal and funnyjunk to raise tons of money
for charity. Because I'd rather believe that than believe that people this
dense actually exist.

~~~
drostie
As I recall, the same thing happened with a lawyer named Jack Thompson. I
think it's just something about Law as a discipline that it attracts people
who can be very literal-minded and who at least in their own mind are moral
crusaders. (Disclaimer: I don't know whether Carreon's wife actually does
anything legal herself or whether she just married a lawyer.)

I think when you mix that sort of mentality with modern entertainment, you get
quotes like these. Sure, we say, "any normal person" understands the
difference between cartoons and real life. Perhaps Mrs. Carreon would even
agree that _she_ understands the difference. But she is somehow not convinced
that _we_ understand the difference. Jack Thomson was the same way; he
referred to games as "murder simulators" and assumed that anyone attracted to
them was merely 'in the closet' about actions that they secretly intensely
wanted to do. Since indulging a normal addiction usually makes it worse and
not better, it's easy from this screwed-up perspective to imagine that The
Youth will fail to be satisfied one day with the latest violent media -- and
will turn to violence itself in their craving.

There is another aspect here which is: the things that disturb us about others
are usually things which disturb us about ourselves. It's about resonance.
Normally if someone is being stupid people say "to hell with him, he's
stupid." But let us all endeavor, when we find ourselves outraged, to ask not
only "what is wrong with THEM?!" but also "why does this bug me so much? What
resonates here?" If we apply that to Mrs. Carreon, I think we'll all see that
we've all been on the wrong side of a dispute, that we've all been wronged
before and wanted to "get back," etc.

~~~
JackC
_I think it's just something about Law as a discipline that it attracts people
who can be very literal-minded and who at least in their own mind are moral
crusaders._

Since this whole case is, um, horribly embarrassing to my profession, I'll
just respond here and move on. The huge majority of lawyers I know are much
more like the EFF lawyers here than like Carreon. They're smart, creative,
resilient, flexible, and more often than not they're honest and respectful.
Some of them do it for moral reasons and some are just doing a job; some of
them make the world a lot better in my opinion and some of them end up
screwing it up. But there's not one lawyer I know who I can imagine acting
anything like Carreon, let alone his wife. I mean, even the few jerks would at
least make more effective choices.

In short: don't think of this guy as a typical lawyer. He's not. Think of him
as a typical guy-screwing-up-his-career-with-a-weird,-paranoid-flameout,-in-
an-unusually-public-way-thanks-to-the-internet. It's just too bad he happens
to have a career that will let him waste a lot of other people's time in the
process ...

~~~
drostie
Oh! I'm sorry, it occurs to me that my comment can indeed be read that way,
and that's not what I intended.

I mean it as "they attract these people", not "they are mostly these people:"
the tiny percentage of society which is A is much more likely to be L, but
that does not mean that most L's are A. So for example I would guess that most
programmers are pretty sociable people, but we have a nasty reputation as
highly antisocial because we attract people who prefer programming to
partying. The Catholic church can tell you all about their difficulties with
this type of thing.

~~~
JackC
Hey, thanks for the clarification. That's a totally fair point. I was probably
a little over-eager to reply here since this story so much invites the
lawyers-are-evil thing and I've been looking for a chance to put it in
context. Like, "yes OK lawyers are evil sometimes but this isn't that." :)

After thinking more about it, the literal-minded moral crusade is something
I've definitely seen in the legal system, not from lawyers but from pro se
parties -- non-lawyers who are representing themselves. There's a group of
people who are absolutely sure that the world has wronged them and that
they'll eventually be able to make everyone understand, but are unable to
parse or accept the reality checks they're getting back from the system, so
they go through a series of lawyers before striking out on their own. I bet
any clerk's office you walked into, they could name a handful of people like
that who they recognize by sight when they come in to file their next
complaint (and then a complaint against the judge who handled the last
complaint, and so on). They're sad situations.

I don't really know anything about Carreon or the rest of this mess, but
assuming that's what's happening, maybe there's some observer bias here -- the
reason we're hearing about this at all is that he _is_ a lawyer, so he's able
to navigate the system well enough to cause real trouble, at least for a
while.

------
richardv
It is really hard to understand how Carreon and his wife don't realise that
they are digging themselves into their own hole. They even went out and bought
the shovels themselves. Getting involved in a battle which isn't yours and
then stretching it this far is beyond belief.

It's as if they have never heard of the internet before, and expect _everyone_
to side with them. It's pathological ignorance.

~~~
freehunter
Shooting off your mouth about an ongoing case is just asking for trouble. All
of this could be brought into the courtroom, with Tara being an associate of
Charles. It wouldn't be the first time a judge has ruled on a case partially
due to professional behavior outside the courtroom.

~~~
danielweber
On the evening of June 14th, Carreon told Forbes that he didn't know what was
wrong but he'd find _something_. “California code is just so long, but there’s
something in there about this.” That evening around 9pm he donated $10, and
then filed his suit the very next day claiming he had been misled.

~~~
travisp
Sadly, he's probably right. Many estimates suggest that the average American
is unknowingly committing multiple felonies every day due to vague criminal
statutes.

~~~
protomyth
Try getting a definitive list of state or federal laws. No such list for the
Feds and most states.

~~~
jrockway
I have the list:

    
    
      1) Don't do anything an agent of the government doesn't want you to do
    
      2) Don't do anything a future agent of the government won't want you to do 
    

And they say the legal system is complex!

------
eridius
I didn't even realize until this article that Carreon had actually donated to
the campaign, apparently expressly for the purpose of then claiming that Inman
was going to use the funds in a different way than promised? Except I have no
idea how he can possibly argue that taking the picture of the funds is somehow
wrong, when that was kind of the main objective of the fundraising (with the
secondary objective being to then distribute the funds to the 2 charities).

~~~
tfm
> different way than promised

Once the originally-planned $20k had been exceeded, Inman suggested that he
would find some more charities that might benefit from the cash. This thought
was abandoned shortly after Carreon cried foul about the "different way than
promised". So, good-good for the bears, they'll get a bigger money pit to roll
around in.

~~~
eridius
I'm not sure what bearing that has on taking a picture of the cash. Nor do I
see how this could be related to the current lawsuit if Inman abandoned that
idea.

------
bravura
"One man’s vulgarity is another’s lyric." -Inman's lawyer

This is going into my quotes file.

~~~
ender7
Inman's lawyer is quoting Justice Harlan in Cohen v. California:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohen_v._California>

------
inthewoods
This is starting to feel like one of those fake hip-hop artists fights
(recognizing that The Oatmeal is clearly in the right imho).

I wonder if FunnyJunk is now just continuing this for the publicity.

~~~
nicholassmith
It left FJs hands a while ago now, this is all on Carreon. Unsurprisingly FJ
haven't mentioned anything for a while.

~~~
danielweber
Given his previous attempt to drum up public outrage over Mattel's failure to
take him up on his offer to represent them over another trademark dispute,
there's a good chance that this whole thing was entirely Carreon's idea. "Hey,
you should get a trademark, and then let me file a contingency suit against
that guy who is more successful than you."

------
nthitz
Wait so where are the photos?

~~~
ch00
Seems like the Ars headline is inaccurate. Inman posts in his blog that the
money is still with IndieGoGo pending a restraining order to have it
transferred.

"Once the money is moved, I still plan on withdrawing $211k in cash and taking
a photo to send to Charles Carreon and FunnyJunk, along with the drawing of
Funnyjunk's mother."

<http://theoatmeal.com/blog/fundraiser_update>

~~~
danielweber
Yesterday, IndieGoGo filed documents, revealing that

1\. the money donated by PayPal was _already_ in Inman's hands.

2\. the money donated via credit card was already sent to the charities.

Oddly, Inman's blog isn't as up-to-date as the court filings. Inman's filing
is here:
[https://www.eff.org/sites/default/files/filenode/OatmealOppT...](https://www.eff.org/sites/default/files/filenode/OatmealOppTRO.pdf)

~~~
wccrawford
It could be that Inman was unsure what he could legally say, and didn't want
to make things worse. He'll get his 15 minutes and rushing things won't make
any difference.

------
jnsaff2
Let me quote Humphrey Bogart for you: "The only reason to have money is to
tell any SOB in the world to go to hell."

------
Bobby_Tables
Am I the only one who thinks Carreon wants to be the new Jack Thompson?

~~~
dougabug
That's exactly what I was thinking. How long before they disbar this clown for
abusing the legal system with frivolous, vindictive lawsuits?

------
macey
Tara and Charles are most clearly mentally ill. At least they have each other.

------
runamok
It's rather difficult for most of us to accept criticism but at some point
most sane people would try to take a step back and conclude that if thousands
upon thousands of people think you are behaving poorly it might be prudent to
at least _consider_ their viewpoint is valid.

------
necenzurat
don't wanna be a 9gag supporter but even 9gag gives some source/credit

------
specialist
About that hate speech...

    
    
      Tara Carreon responded:
    
      "There is now plenty of proof that Matt Inman is one
      of a gang of people who promote the same type of ideas
      that inspired Jared Loughner to try and kill Gabrielle
      Giffords," she wrote. "Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty
      Law Center, who studies hate groups and hate speech,
      examined Loughner's sites and concluded that his material
      on grammar, in particular, likely came from the writings of 
      far right activist David Wynn Miller. If you Google Matt 
      Inman + grammar, you will find a similar obsession. And 
      similar hate."
    

Citing SPLC suggests Tara Carreon is left leaning. But her misunderstanding /
misuse of "hate speech" is very right wing.

Kind of like how trogs don't grok that Colbert is making fun of them.

Hate speech is wishing harm on your opponents for political reasons. Calling
people names is not hate speech. Neither is making fun of people. That's just
being a dick.

Alas, wingers don't get that distinction. I suspect the root cause (mental
failing) also explains trogs rampant false equivalency (e.g. Clinton got a
blow job == Bush allowing 9/11, illegally invading a foreign country, killing
100,000s of its citizens, making refugees out of a few million, and using
depleted uranium to convert much of the formerly inhabited areas into
Superfund sites).

I once had a winger tell me that the Rodney King riots in LA were an example
of left wing hate speech. The stupid, it hurts. I honestly can't decide if
trogs say ridiculous non sequiturs because they're thick or if it's merely to
distract and enrage (a la Limbaugh, Beck, Coulter). I've decided to simply
judge people by their actions, vs their intent.

The grandma having sex with a bear is obviously funny. To you and me. But the
trogs can't see it that way. Any mocking is a direct personal attack demanding
a defensive response.

Inman didn't know the Carreon's were mentally impaired. But for future, just
know that trogs will misunderstand, misinterpret, twist, assume the worst,
distort, etc. No one can control the audience's reaction. But in my mocking, I
do try to avoid borderline humor which can be labeled "hate speech". No sense
giving the trogs another chew toy. And there's no shortage of funny stuff to
say.

~~~
jongraehl
You come close to smearing roughly half of _all_ people with the comical
stupidity of the worst within that half. All of what you say seems true, but
even describing reality along those lines (even without your epithets) arouses
passion+stupidity.

~~~
specialist
Just half?

I had to read Tara Carreon's quote for myself. The "hate speech" reference
jumped out. No one else had commented on it. Probably because few here are as
political as me, so wouldn't know that it's a politically charged phrase.

Oh, I forgot to mention something.

Carreon's equating Inman to Jared Loughner is just sick. As in reprehensible.
No different than invoking Hitler (Godwin's Law). And is a pretty good example
of hateful (vs hate) speech.

