
Ask HN: Best resume format for auto-fill online job apps? - JHof
Numerous online application systems have you first upload a resume in .docx, .pdf, .txt, from which an attempt is then made to pre-fill out much of the online application. This doesn&#x27;t work very well and basically requires one to complete the entire app. Anyone out there have experience creating these programs? How do they work and what&#x27;s the best way to format a resume so that they work properly?
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BinaryIdiot
I would skip the entire step of sending in a resume that has to auto fill that
type of information (if possible; not sure what industry you're in).

Almost every single time I've submitted a resume through whatever process a
company has to do so (which almost always includes one of these systems) I
RARELY hear back in any decent amount of time (if at all; the amount of
technology companies that have never sent any type of response to me at all is
absolutely staggering).

However, if you can find the recruiter's email address, the email address for
the head of a group you want to work for or even a hiring post (like HN's
Who's Hiring) where they give you a direct email address to send to, those are
almost ALWAYS the best.

I'll never forget applying to one company a while back where I submitted
through their online process then, later that day, saw their email address in
the Who's Hiring on HN and directly emailed them. I went through two
interviews as a result of my direct email then almost a month later got a call
from whoever received my first application. The crazy thing is that one was
FAST and actually responded to me; most are super slow or never respond to me.

~~~
ThrustVectoring
Direct email works wonders, especially if you have some kind of in. The first
software development job I got was from a friend suggesting I email their CTO
(after they had done particularly well in an interview). I hadn't heard
anything back in a week through the standard process, got a reply to the
direct email trying to schedule an on-site within fifteen minutes.

~~~
stingraycharles
I indeed have hired people that approached me this way. Some other sources
land directly into my inbox (such as StackOverflow or some niche job sites),
but generally it's best to take as short a route as possible. Not many people
do that, so it's not something I would hold against a candidate.

~~~
SmellTheGlove
Most don't because it's taught that it's frowned upon. I don't mind at all if
people try and connect. For a big company like mine, it's probably less of a
risk than the ATS or the HR rep screening it out.

~~~
ThrustVectoring
I think it makes a difference if you have an explainable excuse to do so - it
makes it a lukewarm email instead of a cold one. "You posted your email on a
hacker news job thread" or "You interviewed a friend of mine who suggested
this" or "I met you at a tech conference and got a business card" or whatever.

~~~
SmellTheGlove
Warm is certainly always better, but given how opaque ATS processing is and
the number of submissions they get, I'm not sure that you're worsening your
chances by taking a shot at direct. Look at it this way - if the manager just
deletes it as spam but HR screens it in, they'll see it, or vice versa. And if
the manager opens it, I don't know many people that would can a resume from a
qualified candidate because it came direct. While ATS'es and HR screening are
seen as huge obstacles from the outside, on the inside we're pretty happy to
get a qualified candidate by any means. And if the candidate isn't qualified,
no harm either way.

~~~
BinaryIdiot
> Warm is certainly always better, but given how opaque ATS processing is and
> the number of submissions they get, I'm not sure that you're worsening your
> chances by taking a shot at direct

Completely agree. I always try going the warm route but if I don't have a warm
way I'm not going to just give up and go "oh well". Hell no, I'm going to find
out as much as I can about the person / group I'm emailing and try to tailor
the message so it sounds like they're getting something out of it by opening
and reading it versus me trying to "sell them".

Worst case scenario they don't reply. Oh well, life goes on.

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vtange
Don't spend too much time worrying about this. There's a reason why companies
use ATS and that's to filter out a large volume of applicants.

Even if you formatted well, you'll need to have enough keywords, etc. to win
against the crowd.

Your time is better spent working on networking. My current job came from a
friend's referral and honestly, I'm sure many companies will take a referred
candidate over a candidate whose resume got the green-light from a machine.

~~~
vonmoltke
That only really works for companies local to you. Plus, it ignores that at
many large companies a referral just means an extra tag in the ATS that might
or might not help you bubble up.

~~~
SmellTheGlove
I think by referral the poster meant a contact within the company passing a
resume directly to the hiring manager. I'll have someone put me down as the
referrer when they apply online, but I also ask them to send me a resume and I
make sure it goes to the hiring manager.

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runlevel1
If I were building a tool that parses resumes, my tests would probably begin
with resumes based on the default Microsoft Word templates.

I usually layout my resume in something like InDesign and render it as a PDF.
Anecdotally, those parsers perform terribly on them.

For instance, a couple years ago Jobvite had a problem parsing tables in PDFs
rendered with Adobe Quartz PDF print driver. They wouldn't allow you continue
until the parser succeeded.

Their recommendation was that I rewrite my resume in Word.

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libria
We really need someone to convince all these ATS's to use a standardized
format (i.e., hResume). I would think Linkedin would have both the clout and
interest in pushing their one of their own design.

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akeating
If I read this correctly, you're interested in formatting your resume in a way
that (hopefully) gets the right data into the right place in the target
systems. Many of the systems you reference use third-party software such as
[http://www.sovren.com/](http://www.sovren.com/) that attempt to fill the
void. You will end up optimizing your resume to fit certain categories.
Implicit in all this is that the end user may only utilize a subset of all the
possible categories of resume information. You might consider playing around
with the Sovren api, or use a fairly well known format, such as the LinkedIn
profile pdf.

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kowdermeister
I wouldn't send anything but PDF. The only way that it will look the same you
intended to.

Parsers are based on millions of CV-s as inputs and they are looking for
patterns. I'd guess that layout is much more important than format.

------
JustSomeNobody
Food for thought:

If your resume is treated this way, how will you be?

~~~
superuser2
Quite possibly better. The primary function of putting hoops in front of
candidates off the street is to reduce the proportion of existing engineer
time spent giving technical interviews that result in a "no hire." Unless you
really like interviewing, you may well have a better time as an employee at a
company that makes things harder for applicants.

There is a concern that drudgery weeds out the wrong people. However, "we want
to hire people who have a strong desire to work _here_ in particular" is a
pretty common belief in SV and if you subscribe to it, then some putting the
lowest-success-rate applicant pool (online resume drops) through some clerical
annoyance makes perfect sense.

~~~
TheSmiddy
I think the resume filtering practices end up filtering out way too high a
percentage of people who are actually good at the job and just bad at writing
resumes.

A better hoop to force applicants through would be one that demonstrates some
aptitude for the job which, upon successful completion, gives them access to
the job submission portal/email address.

For example in a customer service role have the applicant play a game that
follows through a sample phone call where they have to choose the response
they would give to a customers problem.

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midnitewarrior
I've read that .doc/.docx/Microsoft Word format is the most desired. I've had
recruiters tell me this, and I've seen posts on reddit about this. It all
comes down to metadata and formatting -- the automated resume parsers do a lot
better with Microsoft Word, especially if you use the templates.

~~~
coolmitch
FWIW, I think word formats are most desired by recruiters because they can be
easily edited to ie. remove your name and add skills the recruiter thinks will
get it recognized. I'm pretty sure word formats are pretty unamenable to
parsing, aren't they?

~~~
wtracy
I agree 100 percent that recruiters prefer Word docs because they're easier to
tamper with. (A recruiter once asked me over the phone if I had my resume in a
format other than PDF, then said it was okay because he had a way to edit it
anyway!)

That said,

> word formats are pretty unamenable to parsing

Compared to what? Almost all resumes show up in .doc or .pdf format. Maybe the
occasional snowflake will submit an HTML file, a WordPerfect document, or a
.swf file.

Candidates submitting raw text (or something like JSON) are going to be few
and far between. (Although RTF is actually straight text under the hood, and
I'm surprised I don't see it mentioned more often.)

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vthallam
Its tough to prepare a universal format for all ATS to parse and if there is
one, they would have been promoting that format all along.

Some ATS keep first name, last name, email as the only mandatory fields and in
that case a basic resume where you keep the name as the first thing on top
would work. But most of the others ask for your visa status, ethnicity and
various other things, so that has to be manual work again.

As far as i know most of the resumes made in simple LaTeX have had more
chances of getting parsed.

PS : ATS refers to Applicant tracking systems which many companies use to post
jobs and track applicants and manage the hiring process.

~~~
patio11
FWIW: it is extraordinarily unlikely you will be asked your ethnicity during
the job application process at any US employer. Universities, sure, all the
time, because they intend to racially discriminate against disfavored groups.
Employers who do that lose large lawsuits.

~~~
citizens
In my experience a lot of US job applications ask you to volunteer your
ethnicity.

One example: Stripe asks if you're Hispanic/Latino:
[https://stripe.com/jobs/positions/engineer/apply](https://stripe.com/jobs/positions/engineer/apply)
.

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pknerd
_Shameless Plug_

A while back I wrote a Python script automating Job applying procedure for
Glassdoor. It worked for a guy who got the job. If one finds it interesting,
contact me at kadnan at gmail.com. Both trial and paid version available

~~~
softawre
You have a paid version of a python script? Curious how that works.

`print('Paypal me 20 bucks please!')`

~~~
poikniok
I agree it is weird, but I would guess he sends basic version of script for
free to people, and then tells you what additional features the paid one has.
However clearly one could just pay for the script and then post it online for
everybody, not sure how he would prevent that.

~~~
totony
Its the same as a normal program. You can always obfuscate or compile to
bytecode or whatever.

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gtk40
I've found ones that pull from LinkedIn do best, but I treat that as more of a
comprehensive CV that I would cut down to be a resume for a particular job.

