
It’s Time for Microsoft to Turn the Xbox into a PC - shawndumas
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/04/its-time-for-microsoft-to-turn-the-xbox-into-a-pc/
======
BillTheCat
The article seems to ignore why many people buy a console over a pc (aside
from price). When you buy an xbox or playstation you know that it should play
all of the games released for the next 5 years or so.

Coming out with an xbox 1.5 or xbox 10 that obsoletes current gen consoles
midway through a generation would be the biggest change ever to the game
console business. Probably the worst thing they could do would be to make a
new "low-cost" xbox that can't run games that are already out.

I can see Microsoft experimenting with doing small hardware improvements in a
mid-cycle revision but I doubt they will make drastic changes.

~~~
seanp2k2
My recent experience with reloading my gaming PC from Win7 to Win10 reminds me
of the other reason even my technically-inclined friends have consoles: all
the messing around with drivers and software and uPlay and Steam (Steam is
probably the least troublesome but still has problems sometimes, like
requiring me to run Rocket League with admin privs...probably not Steam's
fault) and the Windows Store giving 0xError codes trying to download the Xbox
Accessories app to use the wireless adapter for the Xbox One controller I
wanted to use with my PC.

With a console, the idea is supposed to be that you put the game in, power it
on, and enjoy the game. But these days, consoles aren't quite living up to
that either. IMO, the first Xbox and PS2-generation of consoles were the best,
since they had online play sometimes (anyone remember playing Halo with that
Windows app that tricked it into thinking other users were on your LAN? A
neighbor and I had tons of fun with that) and JUST WORKED (except in cases of
overheating / PS2 disc read errors).

I'm currently enjoying my WiiU quite a bit, since most of the time when it
doesn't need to update, I can just start it and have fun instead of spending
5-60 minutes each session messing with making things work like I need to do
with Windows 10.

------
mikestew
Given the frequency with which I have to cold restart my Xbone, I'd say
Microsoft is well on its way to turning it into a PC.

Snark aside, this is probably one of crappiest articles I've ever read (EDIT:)
on Ars Technica (or rather, skimmed; didn't deem it worth reading word-for-
word). "Microsoft should make a do-it-all box for $200 that has cutting-edge
GPU and CPU, and they should fragment their hardware lineup. Oh, and put a
pony in every box." I'm sure this article is being passed around the E&D
executive suite as I type.

~~~
FussyZeus
Real talk: I have a gaming PC and an Xbone, and if Microsoft was just willing
to give me a One running Windows 10 I would jump so hard at that. Get rid of
that garbage dash UI and just give me a start screen PLEASE. I'd even settle
for Windows 8.

~~~
mikestew
Completely unsubstantiated rumor: there was some build of Windows 10 they were
going to put on Xbone. MSFT wisely used it for internal employees first. As it
was told to me, it was "a fucking disaster". Were I to guess, and that's all
it is, it was more a porting problem than getting the UI to work. So maybe
they could slap a start screen on there.

And I thought substantiated rumors (as in, didn't they put it on the Xbone
home screen at some point?) said the "windows 10 experience" _was_ coming to
Xbone. Perhaps the internal pilot delayed that.

Anyway, take it FWIW, which ain't much because even when knowledgable folks
talk, I don't pay much attention (meaning anything above is wrong in some way)
because it's mostly none of my business, and I don't care much.

~~~
FussyZeus
The last update was the Windows 10 one. It addressed a LOT but it still has a
long way to go to be on par with the 360, and the network stack is still
extremely hit and miss.

Nevertheless, this dash actually works so it does have that over the first
one.

~~~
mikestew
_he last update was the Windows 10 one._

Ugh. Maybe I should spend less time commenting on HN, and actually paying
attention to my "inside sources". Or for that matter, just looking at the
dashboard when I boot the machine. I truly didn't notice the update.

------
CJefferson
Personally, I like a console (I'm more of a nintendo user).

I don't tend to have long to play games, and I don't like having 20
configuration options to adjust hair / light / texture / resolution quality.
Mainly because I don't know which of these will (a) have the best effect on
performance, and (b) have the least effect on how the game's designers
intended it to be experienced.

For all the weaknesses of consoles, I know that (for better or for worse), I'm
getting the best tuned experience, as intended by the game's designers, as
soon as I switch the game on.

~~~
mixedCase
It is the norm for PC games that have settings to have pre-tuned config
settings (Low, Normal, High and Maxed, usually called Ultra) which make it
easy to find something according to your hardware's power and age.

------
godzillabrennus
I have an Xbox One and it's a mess. The UI is strange, it has a tendency to do
strange things (e.g. This week it's decided that selecting apps won't work
anymore despite hitting A) if powered on too long, there are games that
freeze, searching the store for games returns irrelevant results, the games
are huge and with a local install required me to buy an external drive just to
keep a collection of games available for play and the standby power option
gave me so many issues I had to disable it so now I deal with crazy long boot
times.

That said I hate the PlayStation remote, it's basically designed for super
small hands and I have very large hands, so I'm not switching. I'm also fond
of Halo.

Seems like the best thing Microsoft could do would be to deliver a remote
gaming experience over the net. That way the console cost can be negligible
and not require replacement as frequently. They could charge more for Xbox
live because it's actually doing the compute and it'd be available on the go
even from cell phones. That'd move lots of young people to the windows phone
ecosystem.

Kind of how music moved folks to Apple back in the day.

Unfortunately that won't happen. Microsoft is too focused on corporate clients
to move the needle in the consumer market.

~~~
jerf
"Seems like the best thing Microsoft could do would be to deliver a remote
gaming experience over the net."

So, I'm not saying this is a bad idea, but in order for Microsoft to do that,
they would have to agree to completely give up all hope for VR on the system
they do that on. Cloud VR is simply out of the question; the minimum latency
is still guaranteed motion sickness. I'm not sure they can psych themselves up
for that, _even if it 's probably still a good idea_.

(I can't prove this but the sense I'm getting from the reports of people's VR
experiences and people's console experiences is that the current-gen consoles
should simply give up on doing VR. They don't have the power to do it at
graphical quality levels that the current market will consider acceptable for
very long. Again, let me emphasize, this is my _sense_ ; if you vigorously
agree _or_ disagree I'm interested in your thoughts!)

~~~
xbmcuser
Well if the graphical quality levels are not up to par. The 4k version of ps4
makes sense they could sell it as for vr or something.

------
superbaconman
I'm surprised to see so many negative comments. I haven't had major problems
with my Xbox One in a while. Generally just restarting apps fix any problem
you'll run into. I don't use wireless though, so I'm sure I'm avoiding a crap
load of problems right there. I believe most of the issues I personally have
stem from Xbox Live.

I've heard rumors of this kind of thing recently so it's not a surprising. The
Xbox and PC are slowly becoming one, and I'm guessing most games will run on
both next generation. Honestly though, as long as their Halo games stay on
point I don't really care how the hardware strategy shakes out.

~~~
cududa
My younger cousin has an Xbone and I've seen how _awful_ it can be with WiFi.
In this case, anytime there's some interruption in WiFi the thing requires a
cold reboot to reconnect (even though it claims it's connected and all
services are operational) and sometimes having to forget and sign back in to
the network.

~~~
v0lta
Sounds like a defect tbh. I use my xbone with wifi only and don't have any
issues. I very rarely have to restart it.

------
FussyZeus
The XBox One is like a multifunction printer: It's trying to be too many
things for too many people and in the end sucking at all of them. (FD: I own
two of them.)

The wife and I are hopelessly addicted to the Halo series so we tolerate them,
but overall it's one of my least enjoyed electronics to use. The interface is
slow, it's prone to frequent networking issues which due to it's need for
constant contact with Live cripples it regularly, the need for open NAT
required me to open ports to one on a static IP and DMZ the other, I can go on
and on. There is so much potential in this platform (as seen on the 360, which
is fantastic) and it's wasted with pretty good hardware and absolute garbage
software.

Whoever was in charge of the original release of the XBox One's OS should be
outright fired, what a disaster that was, and frankly the current one is
better but far from what I'd call good.

/rant

~~~
simonswords82
At first I thought your comment was a bit harsh but actually now I think about
it the Xbone is buggy as fuck compared to the 360.

I'm hopelessly addicted to COD3, and if I had a quid for every time that game
has crashed on me I'd have a lot of pound coins. The OS is indeed slow, and
the network setup I've had to create for games to work reliably is less than
ideal. The OS is clearly trying to do a lot, but does all of it slowly and
unreliably.

~~~
FussyZeus
It's not as awful if you compare it to the gen 1 360 (RROD anyone?) but it's
still arguably worse. Granted this one doesn't destroy itself during standard
operation, I killed two of the gen 1's myself before getting an Elite, but
while the hardware is definitely good the OS is just absolute garbage. The
network stack was written by monkeys, it's the only explanation.

We had a couple friends over to Legendary crawl the Halo MC Edition campaigns
and we had to power cycle the units three separate times over the course of
the 3 and 4 campaigns because the damn things just would not see each other.
Insanity.

Edit: A LOT of it's issues I think come down to how dependent the One is on
Live compared to the 360. Live was a big part of the 360 too but it could
function just fine without it, but I remember in Christmas of 2014 I had
bought the wife her XBox One which came with AC: Black Flag. That week when
lizardsquad or whatever took down XBox Live, I had to PHYSICALLY DISCONNECT
the One's cable to allow it to login properly, it just could not handle the
idea that it had Internet access but Live was down. That kind of omission from
the handling speaks volumes as to what the rest of the code must look like.

~~~
mikestew
_It 's not as awful if you compare it to the gen 1 360 (RROD anyone?)_

Eh? I had (well, it's still in the garage) a launch day box. It did the RROD
under the extended warranty period, sent it in and got it refurbished, it ran
until the Xbone launched. A one-time problem with a one-time fix that had a
quick turnaround. Your mileage obviously varies, as did that of others, but
for me over the course of nearly ten years, it was a minor inconvenience.

In comparison to the Xbone, the foibles of which I endure nearly every time I
turn it on. I dropped my Xbone in the DMZ and called it good, and that works
well. But that does me little good with my friends as we ask, "why can't I
join? Why doesn't chat work?" My personal fave is the "it says my NAT is
'strict', but it was 'open' yesterday and I haven't changed anything." That
even happened to me once. Now how the network stack thinks that a machine with
its own IP address, sitting wide-open exposed to the Internet at large, is
behind a NAT befuddles me.

~~~
FussyZeus
The failures of the foxconn 360's were incredibly erratic, some died after a
month, others are still working. A company that produces hardware that fails
with such a range is somewhat more worrisome than one that produces it where
it fails consistently.

And yeah I too noticed oddness with DMZ. For a long time the only way to have
two in the house was to have mine in the port forward (since we used mine as a
media center and it needed access to the other bits of the network) and to
have the wife's DMZ'd, but neither worked terribly well and we would run the
gamut from Strict to Open with zero predictability. UPNP seems to keep them
happy though, so whatever works.

------
Overtonwindow
This is not a good article, but to the point I disagree. I don't want a game
machine that is also a PC. I want a screaming fast, high powered, ass-hole-
clenching machine of pwning power that is separate from the ones my kids use
to download viruses and watch porn on... Just sayin...

------
slantyyz
I used to be a die hard console loyalist, mainly because it was pretty much
the only way to play the games I like (2D and 3D fighting games).

But these days, pretty much all of the biggest name fighting game franchises
outside of Tekken and Virtua Fighter (unless you count Dead or Alive as a
substitute) are available as native games on PC via Steam or the Windows App
Store (Killer Instinct).

It's way easier and cheaper using Steam to run games on multiple machines,
plus I can basically bring games with me on my laptop. I don't think I could
ever go back to a console.

------
howlingfantods
tldr: Next gen 4K and VR games require GPUs and CPUs that far exceed the
$300-400 price normal for a game console. Microsoft should separate the Xbox
into two (or more) lines: a $150-200 media center like Apple TV with no gaming
capability, and a higher priced gaming version that could potentially just be
a high powered PC running an Xbox app.

Personally, I see his point that the price expectations of game consoles
prevent them from effectively running next gen games. However, that's always
been the case, with console gaming quality lagging behind PC equivalents. But
maybe the advancements with VR and 4K this time around has finally broken the
traditional console refresh cycle?

~~~
Unklejoe
"... a $150-200 media center like Apple TV with no gaming capability"

I think "media centers" in the form you speak of are becoming more and more
irrelevant with the emergence of smart TVs and those <$75 HDMI sticks that are
basically fully functioning computers.

I can already stream video from my phone directly to my TV, which gives me
full media center capabilities in a very convenient package. I can't see the
average person spending $200 for such a device given the current alternatives.

"Personally, I see his point that the price expectations of game consoles
prevent them from effectively running next gen games. However, that's always
been the case, with console gaming quality lagging behind PC equivalents. But
maybe the advancements with VR and 4K this time around has finally broken the
traditional console refresh cycle?"

I agree with your first two statements, but I feel like people are going to
really reject a refresh cycle of less than 4 years. So rather than VR
influencing the life cycle of consoles, I feel like it will be the other way
around (but maybe a little of both). The pressure will get pushed all the way
back to the component manufacturers, forcing them to make GPUs capable of VR
for a lower cost. People have been spending ~$400 for a new console every 4-8
years for like 30 years now, so there's a lot of momentum behind it.

~~~
seanp2k2
IMO this makes no sense since even <$100 media center devices have decent
gaming capabilities these days (on the level of a PS2):
[http://m.androidcentral.com/grand-theft-auto-iii-vice-
city-a...](http://m.androidcentral.com/grand-theft-auto-iii-vice-city-and-san-
andreas-now-available-kindle-fire-and-fire-tv) (and this was 2 years ago)

------
Retric
Let's sell a cut down X Box @ 150 - 200$ to compete with a ~70-100$ Ruku...
Really? I don't think that's a useful market or price point for MS.

------
sremani
Its already a PC with a different interface. XBox needs to be gaming first and
entertainment second and compute last machine. That is why it is bought. the
compute experience should not interfere with the first two functions, it could
be a nice add-on for some niche, but nothing more.

------
shmerl
Steam Machines are already pushing console manufacturers in that direction.
Incumbent consoles won't be able to lag with their slow refresh cycle anymore.
They'll learn to compete.

------
frozenport
An $80 backend for a $600 headset sounds like a small savings with a huge
compromise in performance. This article is rubbish, most people are upgrading
GPUs to use to use new VR systems.

------
midnitewarrior
I'd rather have my PC turn into an Xbox.

~~~
seanp2k2
This. IMO it'd be nice to be able to boot into a "games OS". I had / have high
hopes for SteamOS some day, but it seems that driver issues are still a big
problem:
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SteamOS](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SteamOS)

I personally run an older (6850) crossfire set-up, which AFAIK isn't supported
under SteamOS, but once the next gen of GPUs drop I plan on revisiting dual-
booting Hackintosh for work / browsing and SteamOS for gaming.

~~~
emp_zealoth
You can use Steam Big Picture on windows,pretty much turns your PC into a
console (that doesnt suck) And you can buy a Steam Link if you want to sit on
a couch

