
Google Fiber announced for Provo, Utah - vyrotek
https://fiber.google.com/cities/provo/
======
vyrotek
_Today we announced that we hope to purchase iProvo, an existing fiber-optic
network owned by the city of Provo. As a part of the acquisition, we would
commit to upgrade the network to gigabit technology and finish network
construction so that every home along the existing iProvo network would have
the opportunity to connect to Google Fiber. Our agreement with Provo isn’t
approved yet—it’s pending a vote by the City Council scheduled for next
Tuesday, April 23, and also is subject to satisfaction of additional closing
conditions. We intend to begin network upgrades when the deal is closed.

We hope to have service to our first customers in late 2013, and will have
more information to share soon._

<https://fiber.google.com/cities/provo/>

~~~
justsomedood
The city has been looking to get out of the financial obligations from iProvo
for a while, it'd have to end up being a really bad deal for them to say no to
this.

~~~
awaythrowme
It is a really bad deal because it eliminates municipal ownership of the
infrastructure that would facilitate competition. Instead they are installing
a new monopolist which will only seem to improve things in the short term.

~~~
turing
There are still other ISPs in the area that will be competing. The change will
be from a bankrupt fiber provider that the city cannot afford to a well-funded
provider undergoing network enhancements and expansion. Stop complaining.

~~~
awaythrowme
Presumably those competitors won't have access to fiber to the home. Besides
the fact that it doesn't make sense to roll out separate fiber for each
provider it is clear that municipal owned fiber would decrease barriers to
entry and therefore increase competition. You simply cannot expect good
outcomes in situations of monopoly/oligopoly regardless of who the monopolists
are.

~~~
aray
Why would this prevent anyone else from accessing fiber to the home? I thought
the whole neat reaction from the Austin, TX fiber announcement was that ATT
was planning on doing just the same.

~~~
awaythrowme
They wouldn't have access to that fiber, they would have to do their own fiber
drop and I point out why that's bad in the remainder of my previous post.

Regarding ATT/Texas: Having a competitor is not what economists mean when they
refer to competition.

------
simonsarris
Good god I hope these announcements light a fire under the butts of the other
US providers.

~~~
austenallred
I think one of the things I'm most excited for is canceling my absurd Comcast
agreement.

~~~
ebertx
Yep. I pay 60 bucks a month for 40 Mbps, and Google offers 1 Gbps for 70 bucks
a month. I pay almost the same price for 4% the speed (not to mention horrible
customer service).

~~~
SpikedCola
You're well off. Here in Ontario, I pay ~$75 a month (after taxes & extra
fees) for 25mbit. I would kill for $60 40mbit service.

~~~
mercuryrising
Why does Canada have such terrible internet? Is it a regulation thing,
competition thing, or what? Why do you guys have such extreme data caps?

~~~
SpikedCola
AFAIK Internet is unregulated here. The CRTC is [basically] run by Bell &
Rogers, they seem to do what they want. When one has a deal, the other shortly
follows - when you cancel with one you're stuck going to the other.

As long as they each gain the customers the other loses, they win.

------
thomasjames
I'm glad that this is gonna be so close to the Bluffdale, UT NSA data center.
Now they wont even have to build too much of their own cable to listen in on
every single packet!

~~~
javert
The fact that this is close to Bluffdale only helps support (just a little
bit) the likely thesis that Google has decided to ally itself with the US
surveillance state (which is probably has little choice about anyway).

~~~
eco
I don't know how you can jump to that conclusion. Provo is one of the few
municipalities with a fiber network already in place. Combined with Provo
wanting to get out of the fiber business itself makes Provo uniquely suited
for Google Fiber. Google probably didn't consider the fact that the NSA
building was 20 miles away at all when making this decision because it has
very little to do with their deployment. The NSA would tap backbones, not last
mile fiber deployments.

~~~
javert
I'm not saying it has anything to do with directly tapping wires. I'm just
saying that the DHS has an interest in building up infrastructure in this
particular place.

I didn't even know Google was interested in buying fiber deployments and
redoing them. I thought they were trying to build them from scratch.

~~~
throwawaay
First, you imply that underlying intention behind the Fiber deployment in
Provo is to make surveillance a piece of cake by practically serving up data
on a platter. You admit no other possibility, since this "only helps support"
your thesis.

Then someone calls you on it, and you back off and say you weren't implying
anything, just that [the NSA] has an interest in building up infrastructure
there.

Did you even consider the possibility that both parties might be
coincidentally interested in Provo for entirely different reasons?

------
rdl
I wish Palo Alto could get out of their limited and never very awesome metro
fiber business (run by the city, like their other utilities) by getting Google
as a partner. For Google, it would make sense from a marketing perspective --
if I got 1Gbps fiber at home in PA due to Google, I'd be more positively
inclined toward the company in general (for working, M&A, other products,
whatever).

San Francisco, I have zero hope for due to the totally dysfunctional city
government, but Palo Alto, Mountain View, maybe EPA (for political reasons),
Menlo Park, Sunnyvale, Santa Clara, Cupertino all seem pretty sanely governed.

If EPA had Google Fiber, I'd probably brave the (moderate, now) security
risks, air quality, and floodplain.

~~~
crapshoot101
CA makes it impossible unfortunately. I wish you were right, but this state is
setup to allow every crank to block any sort of development.

~~~
rdl
How does California make it impossible? State PUC, or just NIMBY culture?

~~~
jseliger
I've posted this elsewhere, but take a look at the California Environmental
Protection Act (CEPA), which is overlaid on top of the national version
(NEPA). I've worked on projects in CA that hit CEPA problems, and the level of
bureaucracy can be really hideous.

NIMBY stuff doesn't help either:
[http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2012/05/face...](http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2012/05/facebook_george_lucas_and_nimbyism_the_idiotic_rules_preventing_silicon_valley_from_building_the_houses_and_offices_we_need_to_power_american_innovation_.html)
; that's primarily about housing, but there's a strong "People united against
everything" front.

This: [http://sfcitizen.com/blog/2011/11/15/no-att-lightspeed-
inter...](http://sfcitizen.com/blog/2011/11/15/no-att-lightspeed-internet-
service-anytime-soon-nimbys-win-against-city-a-stay-from-judge-harold-khan/)
is about San Francisco, but Palo Alto is not exactly known for its developer-
friendly environment either.

------
exabrial
In other news, AT&T expects to be able to be sold the same fiber network at
the same rate with the same privileges as Google.

~~~
RKearney
I was really hoping that when AT&T and TW complained that Google was getting a
better deal than them that the cities would simply reply "Sorry, but that
offer is for new customers only. Thanks for being a valued customer."

------
marcamillion
This is definitely one of those situations where when the big telcos heard
about Kansas - they were prolly thinking..."meh...who cares about Kansas".

But it feels like every few weeks, Google makes a new announcement. This is
definitely going to shake-up the entire ISP market in the US.

I am happy for you guys - I no longer live there, but when I did RoadRunner
wasn't TOOO bad.

I guess Comcast is the biggest offender and I hate to see customers taken
advantage of.

~~~
Kerrick
<http://kansascityisinmissouri.com/>

~~~
myko
Isn't Fiber in Kansas City, Kansas, as well?

~~~
auxxix
Yes

------
wangg
Can someone explain the impact of widely-distributed fiber on DDOS attacks? As
I understand it, if 1-2 of these nodes get compromised, then add in the
10-100x magnification via DNS, you're looking at 10-100gigabits of bandwidth
off only two nodes? Compared to the recently published high of 300, this seems
disproportionally high.

~~~
X-Istence
Let's get providers to stop packets from leaving their network when the IP
source doesn't match any on their network.

Bye bye DNS amplification.

------
backwardm
Holy cow that's great! I sure hope that means they can easily expand to Salt
Lake City (about 50 miles North of there—and where I am) after building the
infrastructure there.

There is already a fiber ISP in the area called Utopia who are in cities near
here, but have been disallowed into the bigger cities (Provo and Salt Lake)
apparently due to lobbying by the Qwest / CenturyLink and Comcast ISPs.

I wonder if this announcement has anything to do with the fact that Comcast
recently doubled my speeds (from 25/5Mbps to 50/10Mbps)

~~~
austenallred
"Holy Cow" - confirmed, we have a Utahn here.

~~~
backwardm
Ha ha... I'm not your typical "Oh my heck" Utahn though—I do drop the hard
swears when appropriate, just not online.

~~~
vyrotek
It's ok man, I've got your back. I'm the OP of this submission and I'm from
Lehi of all places. :)

~~~
SoftwareMaven
I'm honestly a little surprised to find another Lehite here. We could have a
two-person meet up. :)

On a side note, I added my name/zip code to the request page. Anything we can
do to let them know there is demand further north is good.

------
tomkinstinch
Rochester, NY has a municipal fiber network running through its sewers, and
Verizon is absent from the city. In the past before Kansas City, Rochester and
county were vying for Google to come to town. With a favorable environment and
a supportive government I'm hoping we'll be next.

<http://www.monroecounty.gov/google-map>

~~~
driverdan
So that's a municipal line running through the subway? I never knew that.

------
andyking
If they are getting into the habit of buying failing public-sector fibre
networks, can they come and take over Digital Region South Yorkshire too? It
works reasonably well, but is incredibly ineptly run, has a tiny number of
users and has been facing the axe for as long as I've been using it.

[http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/at-a-glance/general-
news...](http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/at-a-glance/general-news/plug-
could-be-pulled-on-digital-project-disaster-1-5491839)

------
austenallred
They just announced they'll offer a free trial period for every home.

~~~
ryankshaw
from the article: "we’d offer our Free Internet service (5 Mbps speeds) to
every home along the existing Provo network, for a $30 activation fee and no
monthly charge for at least seven years"

~~~
marcamillion
Holy crap....that's kinda insane! I thought the 7 year figure was a joke.

------
toomuchtodo
Looks like the Kansas City rollout went smoothly, if Google is willing to ramp
up deployment in other cities.

------
fnordfnordfnord
Cue AT&T announcement in 5... 4... 3...

~~~
eco
The telco is CenturyLink in Utah.

~~~
fnordfnordfnord
My comment was a tongue-in-cheek snipe at AT&T for the way they handled
Google's Austin Fiber announcement; and for continuing to extract rent from
their shabby old infrastructure when there is clearly a demand for more data
services.

------
r00fus
Comcast, Verizon: You're officially _on notice_.

Prepare to be disrupted.

~~~
SoftwareMaven
It's Comcast and Century Link here, but I am _so_ ready for them to be
disrupted. I'm just 10 miles too far away. :(

------
gliese1337
Wish this had happened a year ago; it's not entirely clear what the effect
will be on me and everyone else who already has a service contract on the
iProvo network. I suppose if Google is upgrading the network, though, that can
only be good.

~~~
backwardm
If they (Google) are purchasing the whole iProvo network, then I would think
they could also undo the service contracts so you could sign up for their
normal services? Or, maybe you mean that you have a contract to work on the
network—like a technician or something?

~~~
gliese1337
Found it: [http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/central/provo/what-
goo...](http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/central/provo/what-google-fiber-
means-for-provo-free-broadband-for-
everyone/article_4879a53d-b76f-598c-a130-44b25db1b830.html)

"Veracity customers' accounts will be transferred to Google Fiber
automatically."

Of course, that's still a very vague statement; there's a lot of fiddly
details to ask about (like, does the contract actually get changed so I'm not
paying a bill every month anymore), but I am encouraged.

------
jaredstenquist
Downtown Boston. Please. I'm paying $1,500/m for a 50x50mbps primary and
$350/m for a 100x10mbps backup. The alterative is DSL from version at 1Mbps
peak, or a T1 - 1.5mbps for $500/m.

We need something new in this old city of copper.

~~~
eksith
That's just obscene! It has to be price gouging, plain and simple.

How can any provider justify charging such an outrageous amount for mid-range
copper? I'm surprised Boston, being as metro as it is, still doesn't have
enough competition for lower prices. Then again, New York isn't all that much
cheaper for T1, but FiOS is more acceptable.

------
ignostic
I imagine that Google will be working its way north, up through Orem and
Bluffdale where the NSA, Adobe, and a number of other large tech companies
are. There are some SLC suburbs up north that are running failed fiber
networks, too, so I imagine they'll eventually fill in the Salt Lake area.

I'm surprised about Utah, even with the existing fiber. The population density
in most of the valley is really low, and the installation cost to subscriber
potential must be higher than it is in more compact urban areas.

~~~
warfangle
Maybe there's a sidepoint to it - that it really isn't as expensive to build
the last mile as telecoms have been claiming.

~~~
ignostic
I'd not be surprised. They've also been claiming that I don't actually have a
use for faster internet.

------
antimatter
Realistically speaking, if all these various roll outs go smoothly for Google,
how many years until we see Google Fiber in major cities (LA, SF, NY, etc.)?

~~~
axusgrad
Provo, Utah has about 100k population. There are about 250 US cities with at
least 100k people. If Google doubles the number of cities they serve every
year, and starts with the smallest cities, that's 7 more years to reach the
largest cities.

Most people assume they'll stop when AT&T + Verizon start investing in land
lines again, but who can say if Google will have the desired effect.

------
mrchucklepants
Here is a little more information

[http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/central/provo/what-
goo...](http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/central/provo/what-google-fiber-
means-for-provo-free-broadband-for-
everyone/article_4879a53d-b76f-598c-a130-44b25db1b830.html)

------
djanogo
Is it cheap because google doesn't have to make money on this product?.

I doubt any other company would survive providing 1Gbps fiber service
$70/month, it costs a lot to dig through everybody's yard and create a fiber
network.

------
angersock
Almost certainly going to help the nice folks at Bluehost out.

~~~
systematical
they could use some faster servers too

~~~
angersock
and better admins, but let's not be mean :)

------
alohahacker
As someone who lives in provo aka silicon slopes, this is great news!

I don't think most people realize how tech-based this area is and this should
only help the companies in the area!

------
Nux
Fast forward some years: The United States of Google.

------
habosa
Great skiing a few miles away and the world's fastest internet? Sounds like
most of what I need to be happy. I wish I could move there.

~~~
SoftwareMaven
It's easy to do. There are a lot of jobs in the area. I'm getting contacted
multiple times per week by recruiters.

------
sjs382
New Orleans is an area with a growing tech community that could REALLY use
some infrastructure improvements. _nudgenudge_

------
mikedemarais
our startup just got google fiber TODAY courtesy of brad feld!
[http://www.feld.com/wp/archives/2013/04/the-feld-
fiberhouse-...](http://www.feld.com/wp/archives/2013/04/the-feld-fiberhouse-
is-now-the-handprint-house.html)

------
xwei
Why not come to Bay Area? I feel this is a suitable place for high speed
internet.

~~~
debt
it's probably much cheaper and quicker to roll fiber out in multiple smaller
cities then in one giant city.

------
grantjgordon
Here's to hoping this goes through and that google can turn iProvo around!

------
shmerl
I'm really excited that they continue to expand.

------
WalterBright
Come on, Seattle!

------
stephenhuey
Launch in the EaDo area of Houston, please!!!

------
shloime
Fantastic. Glad to see further expansion.

------
nijiko
How many cities are they going to go to?

------
btrautsc
Dear Google,

please buy EPB's fiber network in Chattanooga, TN.

Love,

------
johnward
Where?

edit: Though this is great for that city.

~~~
jfb
Adobe has a dev center there (unsurprising, given Adobe's history.)

~~~
Keyneston
That was largely due to their acquisition of Omniture.

~~~
mrchucklepants
Adobe's new facility for Omniture is north of Provo.

~~~
Keyneston
Yes the new Adobe building is closer to Point of the Mountain/Thanksgiving
Point than it is Provo but the old Omniture offices were up near Technology
Way in the Provo/Orem region. At least that is how I recall it.

------
miles_matthias
I can see how buying fiber networks like this helps their implementation
strategy, but Provo where? I've literally never heard of this town. I'm
wondering if these Google Fiber experiments wouldn't be more impactful if they
weren't in big cities. KC and Austin are good choices with solid tech centers
to see innovation from high network speeds, but Provo, Utah? Really?

~~~
JPKab
Utah has a pretty solid economy, and lots of outdoors enthuiasts love it.

I don't know much about Provo, but the drawback to me about Utah is that you
have to live in a state that is strongly controlled by the LDS, which is great
if you are a mainstream Mormon. Not so much if you aren't. My good friend
recently left the Salt Lake City area after several years. When his neighbors
found out he wasn't Mormon (LDS to be exact), they pretty much ceased all
meaningful social interaction with his family.

Oh yeah, the beer is watered down too unless you buy it at the right place.

~~~
rdl
I'm not LDS, and generally dislike religion, but I wonder how bad an LDS-
controlled area really would be.

I assume it means good disaster/etc. preparation, a relatively strong social
safety net for participants (and thus less abject poverty, random crazy
people, etc.)

The non-LDS or ex-LDS people I know who live in Utah (from Defcon or whatever)
seem pretty cohesive as well. Maybe because it's a smaller tech scene than
other cities, or because of LDS mainstream culture, or whatever.

I guess my question is how hard is it to be involved in business or other
parts of civic life if not LDS but also not openly hostile (I mean, as
religions go, I don't personally find it any worse than the others, and I'm
fine with respecting participants, if not the religion itself, by not
attacking it, and accommodating their beliefs). Could you be a non-LDS company
in Provo and still reasonably hire a mix of LDS and non-LDS employees?

~~~
Osiris
As a member of the Church that attended BYU (in Provo), I'm always a bit
surprised to hear people outside the church express these kinds of questions.

In Utah due to the large percentage of the population belonging to the Church,
there is a somewhat unique culture (it's a Utah Mormon culture, not a Mormon
culture in general, if than makes sense).

Us Mormons believe in respect and love towards all, regardless of belief
system. We're taught to be accepting of all people and to not judge others
(since we're all imperfect).

The parent post suggests an anecdotal evidence that this is not the case, but
I would discourage you from associating that behavior with the religion as
opposed to those individual people.

To answer your question, I don't see any reason that religion should affect
the way a company operates or hires (other than, hopefully, trying to be more
moral and honest in business dealings).

~~~
rdl
I guess I was comparing it to other countries I've worked in with one dominant
religion (and stories about Israel from other people, where if you're not
Israeli or at least Jewish you're fairly excluded...). All of the Mormons I've
met (admittedly, outside Utah) have been positive outliers as individual
people, but I assume when you have a larger sample set there is the normal
range of human variation.

