
Ask HN: Learning other (non-programming) languages? - mitchelldm7
We've all talked about ways to learn programming languages... But how about foreign languages? Has anyone had luck with software programs or CDs of any kind?
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pasbesoin
Find some music you like that has contemporary lyrics in that language, and
listen to it a lot.

"Tune your ears".

In addition to working to pick up the semantics of the lyrics, different
languages emphasize different frequency ranges and sounds. You do need to
literally "tune" your hearing to better perceive these.

Music you like turns this from a chore to a pleasure. Also, with music, video,
books, etc., you start to pick up some of the culture, which helps you to
become more "native" in your approach. There's also a lot of "slang" and
contemporary word usage and dialog that will not make it into a text book.

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creativeone
It seems like moving to a country where the language is spoken isn't an option
for you. Here is how I advanced my Hebrew before moving to Israel. My prior
knowledge was that I was able to read and write, but didn't really understand
much except for mom, dad, table, chair. \- Pimsleur audio course - while
driving I would listen to these mp3s. About 12 hours worth of participatory
conversations. I think this should be required. \- online live tutoring - I
got a discount for this online tutoring service, about $15 per hour I paid to
have a teacher give me a private lesson with a digital whiteboard plus camera.
Great for learning basic concepts, grammar, and also conversational. \-
textbooks made for learning - first complete a book that is made for English
speakers. Then get a book that is made for children or for people learning the
language with no other language support. Like an ESL book with only English
inside. \- make some friends that speak the language. This is ultimately the
most important step. Nothing you learn in books or mp3s will stick unless you
practice with real human beings.

Good luck!

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T-R
I'd definitely go for the classroom. Unless you're living in the country, it
can be pretty hard to maintain the discipline to cram vocabulary at a
reasonable pace without anyone checking on you. Also, at some point you'll at
least need someone to practice with, ask questions, and check your grammar.

If you're looking for tips - when I was taking multiple languages at once
(Japanese, Chinese, and Korean), between classes I listened to music from the
language of the class I was about to go to, to get my mind switched into that
mode. I'm also under the impression that the music helped with my
pronunciation a lot (but not with listening comprehension as much as I'd've
expected).

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code_devil
I have been looking to learn spanish. My personal preference is to take a
classroom course so you will have real people to interact with and remember
the vocabulary. And then you can follow up that with online material.

During my search, I also found 1\. iTune podcasts (Coffetime Spanish) and many
more 2\. My local library has a tie-up with MangoLanguages 3\. Verbling ( a
new site backed by YC)

Rosetta stone is always there, but is something I would consider once I have
take a classroom course first.

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poissonpie
Michel Thomas has worked for me - French, Italian and Spanish...It is all
audio-learning though - no written per se. I've gotten surprisingly good
results - at least enough to hold my own in simple conversations from the CDs
(they are about 8 hours each for a basic course).

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declancostello
The more you study the better you get so try
<http://alljapaneseallthetime.com>

There's some great posts about methods and motivation on that from someone who
learnt Japanese in about 18 months.

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hrasm
I was able to augment Pimsleur's Japanese tapes with some reading to crack the
old Level 4 of Japanese Language Proficiency Test. It was a very good starting
point. Worked well for me I would say.

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namank
Classroom courses!

If not, then properly structured distance education courses are amazing.

Structure I like: Weekly assignments based on book Assignments are both audio
and written Exam based on comprehension

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auganov
99% of all that is crap. Period. Persistence + dedication + passion and you
can learn any language for free to a functionally fluent level in less than 2
years doing 3-4 hours a day.

No different than hacking effort-wise.

The catch is that some amount of rote learning is a must. Immersion, real life
practice etc is all cool, but it's just not the most efficient way. The never
dying argument that children learn languages fast because of total immersion
is some kind of a joke. They don't learn fast, it takes them a lot of time.
The only thing they pick up fast is the accent and what I would call language
intuition. But building up huge vocabulary takes them a lot of time.

So you if you want to be on the fast track you have to combine rote learning
and immersion. Rote learning for cramming in TONS of vocabulary, you can do
50-100 a day with flashcards. Immersion for getting the feel.

If you're smart enough you can pretty much skip speaking practice, I know,
very controversial. But if you feel like you can, then yes you can. I strongly
believe it can even make things worse for some people. Because they develop
bad habits too early. And I'm talking real life practice here. DO talk to
yourself in that given language. Think in it. Even speak it aloud to yourself.
But don't find language partners for speaking.

If you really feel like you want to do the language exchange thing then you
can do it very early on, say the first month of learning. And only do text
based. It's a good introduction to very basic written language. It quickly
gets too easy, so you need to be aware when it stops being a learning tool and
starts being 100% fun. If you can, just stay away.

Rote learning will be the hard work part of the equation, so I say try to do
as much rote stuff done as you can and when you feel you're burning out just
switch to stuff that's more in the immersion department. Then go back and
repeat. With that method extra time that you put in actually increases the
rate at which you learn exponentially. If you do 1 hour a day I'd bet that
even in 6 years you'll have a long way to go. Do 6 a day and you can get
fluent with an accent that is close to native accent in a year. Of course
mileage varies.

Classes are totally not an option. They are full of COMPLETE slackers,
language learners really do not have a good reputation, especially at an early
stage (who does?).

1 on 1 tutoring is good, but don't let the tutor set the pace. The tutor is
not for you to practice speaking/listening with. Of course you'll do that with
him, because ideally you'll be only speaking in the target language. But his
main role is to prepare your daily fix of material to cram and give you an
answer when you need it. (less frequently makes little sense, bi daily at
most).

I often find that it takes TONS of time to actually come up with what I'm
going to cram in. Especially once you go deeper. So you can outsource that to
the tutor. And do communicate that you want to go FAST (if you do :-)).

Ok. I guess it's enough, I just love learning languages. Most people think my
approach is crazy, but well it works for me and I'm sure it worked in past for
many many others.

If anybody wants some more crazy tips from me just post here or my email is in
the profile.

~~~
sunspeck
By "feel" do you also mean grammar? Because I do believe that immersion is
necessary for an intuitive understanding of the structure of a language. Rote
grammar will get y9ou so far, but it's a different beast.

I agree that vocabulary is a more mechanical memorization task. Knowledge of
linguistic antecedents (eg. Latin for the Romance family) greatly helps this
along.

~~~
joksnet
For immersion, the best is go and live in a country that speak the language
you wish to learn. Et si est le pays d'origine mieux. Muchos paises adoptaron
los modismos a tal punto de "crear" un nuevo idioma.

