
Ask HN: Does coding give you brain fog? - shaydoc
Do you ever suffer from brain fog after a day of intense thinking&#x2F;coding ?<p>Some days after intense working I leave the office spaced out, to the point I wouldn&#x27;t drive. Thankfully I hop on the train.<p>I also find the whole prolonged screen exposure and posture just leaves me with a headache and neck ache.<p>I really notice how much better I feel after maybe 3 days off work..
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bantic
Not exactly brain fog but I often find myself in extreme left-brained mode
after a challenging day of coding. If I meet friends after work I am a
horrible conversationalist for up to an hour while my brain slowly (and
reluctantly) stops actively churning on coding problems.

Related to the right-to-left thinking mode changes, sometimes the words that I
am using at become eerily meaningless or unfamiliar. I've spent a few moments
asking myself "is that really the way 'else' is spelled?". I recently learned
this phenomenon is called semantic satiation [1].

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_satiation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_satiation)

~~~
alttab
Left-brain mode after coding all day is certainly a thing.

I thought it would go away once I got into management, but the truth is I
solve those problems with the same analysis, so even though I'm problem
solving people, I'm still a horrible conversationalist right as I leave work.

------
malux85
I used to get this - it turned out that I was not breathing enough, which
caused my blood pressure to go up. I would get so focused on a problem my
breathing would slowly become more shallow.

Now I have a water bottle on my desk and I slowly sip it all day, it forces me
to get up every 1-2 hours to use the bathroom and fill the bottle back up --
and I deliberately use the bathroom 1 floor down to force me to go up and down
the stairs

~~~
rhcom2
> I deliberately use the bathroom 1 floor down to force me to go up and down
> the stairs

This is such a good idea that I'm stealing immediately.

~~~
kyriakos
I also visit the office kitchen 10 times a day, fill up a glass of water and
go back. I don't necessarily finish it, next time just spill the remaining and
refill. I believe developing these habits helps avoid burning out and other
desk work consequences such as RSI.

~~~
Raphmedia
> next time just spill the remaining

Get plants! Take the responsibility to water them. You will have another
reason to walk around the office!

~~~
kyriakos
thats a cool idea actually

------
justacat
I've had a tendency of entering prolonged periods of focus throughout my life,
and at this point I can feel my brain almost optimize to the task at hand,
there is a type of shift.

For example, I played and performed music seriously for a period of time (no
singing), and it was pointed out by a close friend that any performance that
lasted more than an hour and my verbal center would basically crash. It would
take at least 30 minutes or even hours before my brain would be able to start
talking like a normal person again. Prior to this point in time I had
purchased a pocket dictionary which I carried around, seemingly to combat this
issue.

At present, when I have been working on something particularly engaging at
work my wife notices because my ability to communicate does suffer.

It is interesting that you noted 3 days, just because I recently heard a
researcher talking about how getting away for 3 days can have a cognitive
benefit: [https://www.rei.com/blog/camp/the-nature-fix-the-three-
day-e...](https://www.rei.com/blog/camp/the-nature-fix-the-three-day-effect)

As was mentioned, getting checked out by a doctor does sound like a prudent
step.

------
grandalf
I get a bit awkward socially after a focused stretch of coding. Some days I'll
go 4-6 hours only speaking to one person (a barista) briefly to order some
coffee.

The next conversation I have after the coding stretch usually finds me
struggling to make my mouth say the thoughts in my head, and then once it
does, the sentence structure I use includes more nested clauses than usual.

But even after a 12 hour day of coding I rarely feel fatigued when it comes to
learning something new about a technical area I'm studying, though admittedly
I don't always spend my spare time working on those things.

I generally get very focused and periodically hours will go by and I won't
realize what time it is, only to realize that it's hours later than I had
thought. This is a double-edged sword. The flow state is amazing, but
sometimes I wonder what happened to the day, even though it was a pleasant
day.

I'm about half introvert, half extravert, but for me the most fatiguing thing
is being in meetings that seem to last too long relative to their yield. I end
up drained and need to recharge for a bit afterwords alone before I'm ready to
do anything.

------
er1c_
I've had the spaced out feeling after work as a recurring problem for over a
decade. Most days I am OK enough, but others the only thing I want to do is go
home and stare at a wall as all cognitive abilities are exhausted.

I run 10 miles a week and bike long distances, make all of my own meals, and
have been working with various doctors for years. Nothing seems to help 'fix'
the issue altogether.

~~~
epalmer
I used to come home and slug a glass of wine or two down. Felt better fast but
early in the evening I was tired. Now I just get quiet for a few minutes and
then let the brain be what it is. My fog goes away more slowly but I have
energy and clarity till I go to bed. In short I think the benefits of not
drinking after work are better than if I was drinking. YMMV.

~~~
er1c_
Aye I had to give up drinking last year. It worked wonderfully for a while.

You reminded me, I might try employing mindfulness more again. Let things be
as they are for a bit. Thanks!

~~~
epalmer
Yes mindfulness is helpful.

------
chewz
You should check calcium, vitamine D. and parathyroid hormone levels and
consult a physician. Brain fog is typical for elevated levels of calcium. I
had a thyroid cancer which affected parathyroid glands (rare) and had a brain
fog for like a couple of years before being properly diagnosed. It is nasty
because it affects your emotional and intellectual abilities but it is
difficult to self-observe.

------
cjensen
Please get checked out by a doctor. Anytime you have really weird symptoms,
it's best to be sure it isn't something serious.

Short answer: No, I've never had anything like that.

After concentrating for an extended period, I'm slightly out of it when
switching to talking to someone. But it clears up quickly and has never been
anything so bad that "I wouldn't drive."

------
allhailkatt
I do, but I also have fibromyalgia, which makes me an atrocious point of
comparison. But that does mean I've gotten a lot of experience working around
physical and ergonomics engineering.

Intense mental work can drop your blood sugar and oxygen content in your
blood, as mentioned by others. Start checking your health and engineer health
back in for better coding.

Walking to another floor's bathroom, stepping away from your desk to walk
around the building, getting a sit-stand desk, regularly stretching... there's
a bunch. Get a tracker, and start experimenting. The same thing for nutrition.

If you haven't, work on deep breathing exercises and consider getting a pulse
tracker so you can find a pattern. This is any other data pattern, the effects
are just very close to home. If you feel like you should be coding, consider
if your life was a resource management game and at what point you would expend
resources to get better productivity from your base unit (aka. you).

Good luck!

------
hacker_9
I get this if I spend too much time programming. You just need to get up and
take breaks, for example after every task you complete. Go do stretching or
read a book, let your mind unwind, then get back to it after 20 mins. Not all
offices allow for this so if yours doesn't consider changing job, for your own
health.

------
drhurdle
A lot of people here are saying take breaks and go for walks. I've felt what
you described and something that I have just recently started doing that has
helped 1000x over is meditation.

Check out the Calm app[1]. Its helped for me because I had no idea where to
start. I have no affiliation with them and am sure there are alternatives out
there, this just happened to be the first I had tried. I've just started using
it the past few weeks and use it at least a couple of times during the work
day, and I try and take a walk at least once a day during work as well. Its
really helped with everything you listed above.

[1] [https://www.calm.com/](https://www.calm.com/)

------
pmarreck
You need to set reminders to take a break once an hour, walk around, stare off
into the distance for 5 minutes. This article is from 2012 but mentioned 5 of
them: [http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/five-free-apps-
to...](http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/five-free-apps-to-help-
remind-you-to-take-a-break/)

I also noticed this was a side benefit of having a good test suite- if your
test is valid, thorough, and passing, then you don't have to remember as much
mental-model (because it's encoded in the suite), which would normally
discourage you from getting up at all

~~~
koverda
I actually built something like this for myself when I was learning
javascript. It's buggy, but for the most part it works.
[http://okpeet.com/breaktimer/](http://okpeet.com/breaktimer/) if anyone wants
to take a look.

~~~
mcjiggerlog
Heh, I also made a chrome extension for the same thing and with the same name!
[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/break-
timer/hklkdb...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/break-
timer/hklkdbpicdmlpoiellngedpejjkmapei)

~~~
koverda
nice! i'll try it out. solid name

~~~
mcjiggerlog
It's all open source - [https://github.com/tom-james-
watson/breaktimer](https://github.com/tom-james-watson/breaktimer)

I haven't had much time to work on it for a while. Contributions are very
welcome!

------
magic_beans
Coding just burns me out. By the time I get home, I can't bear to even look at
my laptop. I have a very hard time doing coding side projects because I'm just
to burnt out too code outside of work.

------
agnivade
Its all about having a work-life balance. I code in the morning, then work-out
in the evening.

The workouts keep me healthy and makes my brain active during coding.

And writing code creates the mental concentration which has built up my mind-
muscle connection.

Both go hand-in-hand really. Never do too much of anything. Too much of
writing code drops the code quality. And too much of physical exercise will
not allow for muscle recovery. Just apply common sense and do what feels right
to you.

And yes, buy a good keyboard. A really good one. It will help you years later.

------
robodale
I'm under a tight/looming development deadline during the day and remodeling
the lower level of my house at night. I find after prolonged mental strain
during the day, I find it hard to do basic math with fractions to do simple
cuts of wood (5-3/8 minus 2-1/4)...uhhh...

------
emerged
Could be that you over eat or under eat while working. Or are snacking on
something you have a food allergy to. Could be that you're not getting enough
exercise. Could be an environmental factor like mold. I've had all of these
issues at one time or another resulting in brain fog.

------
kyriakos
I usually get this after a stressful day but not to the extend of what you are
describing, it lasts for ten minutes or so until I change environment. Do you
consume a lot of caffeine while working? Maybe you should check that. Taking
breaks every half an hour is always a good thing, never be stuck on the office
chair for too long, it causes problems even if there's no underlying health
problem. You don't need to run a marathon either as far as exercise is
concerned,if you have the chance get down and do 15 - 20 push ups a couple of
times a day, it's amazing how much difference it makes. Taking a walk also
helps clear your mind, I feel really relaxed after walking my dog for 30 mins.

------
emmanuel_1234
I started having that during my PhD, and I got into a mild alcoholic habit
because of that. I was so brain-tired at the end of the day that I felt the
need to "reset" it with a couple beers. Mind you it worked great, but I
definitely recommend against it.

I find physical activity (walking, biking, going to the gym) to be the best,
with the added benefit of the "Eureka" moments you get when you're NOT at your
desk. I now try to go for a walk for at least an hour if I start getting that.
It took me some time to find a job/boss who understands that.

So yeah, it happens to me every time I concentrate too hard for too long,
especially when coding / working on logical problems.

------
corford
Could just be simple brain exhaustion from prolonged concentration (I
occasionally feel something similar, usually after back to back heavy coding
days and I'm running low on sleep).

Like others are saying, a few things that might help: stay hydrated (water,
not coffee/soda etc.), get a good night's sleep ahead of intensive coding
days, don't eat crap food at your desk and don't stay in the "zone" for 6+
hours without getting off your chair at least once and doing something
different for 30-45 mins (ideally involving fresh air, outside of the
building).

------
shaydoc
So much genuine amazing feedback, thanks so much..

I have been doing this job 20 years now and I think this feeling is more
prevalent now. The combination of family, commute, and sitting at a desk
coding is frankly tiring.

I often get up and walk around, and drink water, etc.. I cycle to work often,
used to do gym sessions at lunchtime And that definitely helps..

But sometimes when you are thinking intensely you just zone out...

I used a little poetic license regarding "I wouldn't drive" just to get my
point across.

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jmhain
I experience something very similar. It turned out to be at least in part from
eye strain induced headaches ("computer vision syndrome"). I started paying
more attention to ocular health, including following the recommendation of a
comment here [0] and lowering screen brightness. It does seem to be helping.

[0]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12582810](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12582810)

------
hosh
Sometimes.

If I am marathoning, though, I use a pomodoro timer and meditate or do
something similar to tai chi in between coding sessions. If it isn't that
intense, I tend to self-regulate in microdoses using techniques from
meditation and an art like tai chi.

I only require multiple days of recovery when I burn out, often resulting from
sustained interpersonal conflicts. I have noticed that has been improving
since applying techniques from Crucial Conversations.

------
pmurT
On the body aches - standing desk that can lower to sitting height. I change
back and forth throughout the day. Also keep a bokken (wooden sword) to swing
and walk for periodic breaks - wife calls it my "thinking stick".

Regarding getting out of the fog - drinking is the only thing I've found to be
reliable, but seldom do so during the week

------
vitomd
My main problem was eye fatigue. I use Flux (justgetflux.com/) set at 4300K
even during the day, and it helped a lot.

------
ErikAugust
My first couple years as a professional developer were amazing - 7-12 hours a
day of coding to keep up. Every single day I left the office totally spent
mentally.

I would often dream about coding, or solving a problem that I was stuck on.

I did not however, get headaches or neck aches. In fact, I found being spent
mentally to be somewhat of a pleasurable state!

------
harrygeez
You're straining your brain over extended periods, of course it happens. Your
brain is a living part of you and it too needs to rest. I get that semi-often
partly exacerbated by bad sleeping habits (it's not good obviously) and I what
I find helpful is to take breaks and drink more water. Sounds obvious but yea.

------
ozovehe
Yes. I'm sprawling on a bench now after hours of coding, I should be on my way
home. The top of my head feels like pepper was poured on it. I can't really
endure a conversation at the moment. I believe it's a combination of sleep
deprivation and hours of intense mental exercise. Listening to music helps

------
jkenney
I have only rarely have felt this from programming (at work or not).

But as a competitive chess player, I do usually experience it at the end of
(especially) weekend tournaments, where there is generally 3 consecutive days
of 8-10 hours of intense concentration. The fog is gone after a good sleep and
day of rest.

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anotherevan
I would definitely look at the ergonomics of your work environment. Do you
work on a laptop all day? I don't know how people can do that, it is terrible
for your neck and back. Something like this could be causing (or contributing)
to your fatigue as much or more than the intense thinking.

------
brett-za
Yes, exactly this! Sometimes on my drive home I think it's not such a good
idea to be behind the wheel.

It's usually a combination of long days of coding and stress that causes my
brain fog. The same factors cause me to regularly wake up at 3a.m. with my
mind too busy to go back to sleep.

------
voltooid
I have workrave installed on my computer. It reminds me to rest my eyes, take
long and short breaks throughout the day. I installed this on my computer
after a few days of being terribly tired at the end of the day. Now I feel
better and fresher even during the day at work.

------
Agentlien
I experience these symptoms from work days during prolonged periods of high
stress. I don't usually get it from programming during less stressful times
and I've had just the same issues during a month when I somehow ended up with
a bunch of non-programming tasks.

------
freekh
Oh yeah! My friend used to tease me every day after work when we worked
together. "How's it hanging up there in the code fog" he would always say when
I was grasping for words :) I never really noticed though: so no headaches or
anything like that...

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bjourne
No, rather the opposite. Coding makes my mind clearer. If you get a headache
and neck ache, then that is most likely due to poor ergonomic setup. Things
like better chair and sitting right should help. Or perhaps you need terminal
glasses.

------
Kinnard
Do you take brakes and walk around? Do you exercise (I mean RUN) while not
programming?

~~~
hacker_9
> Do you take brakes and walk around?

That's a novel approach to exercising.

~~~
punchclockhero
Sounds like a farmer's walk to me.

------
donquichotte
Have you tried cutting caffeine? I've had similar symptoms and cut coffee two
weeks ago after drinking > 5 cups/day for years. Not sure if it's placebo but
it looks like my brain fog is gone.

------
Fire-Dragon-DoL
I don't feel brain fog, but I have hard time playing tactical videogames on
intense work days. In those cases, I play a very reflex based game and it
feels like doing a relaxing run after hard training

------
RUG3Y
After a day of intense coding, I am completely hosed when I get home. I find
programming to be very exhausting and demanding.

If I'm just doing easy front-end stuff like css, I don't feel this effect.

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carapace
Check your light, seating & posture, chronic muscle tensions, and most of all
_diet_. Thinking burns calories, your brain gets something like a fifth of all
the oxygen you take in...

------
pasbesoin
Look at the act of coding itself. But also look at your overall work
environment. It could be the stress of focusing in the face of distractions.
It could be allergies. Or bad lighting.

------
jacquesm
Possibly eye trouble, bad air in the place where you work or a latent health
issue.

I used to get incredible headaches after long bouts of coding, it took me a
long time before I realized I needed glasses.

~~~
cr1895
>it took me a long time before I realized I needed glasses.

I'm rather astonished how relatively poor my eyesight had become before even
thinking I might need glasses. Boil the frog, I suppose.

~~~
jacquesm
Yep. And it's not as if I needed the hint, most of my family wears glasses.
It's just that it changes ever so slowly day-by-day and then one day you wake
up with a headache so bad that you can't see at all. Getting reading glasses
was a major improvement in quality of life.

------
manicdee
I have used the Pomodoro Technique to help me here. After 25 minutes work get
up and walk for 5 minutes.

Adjust duration and ratios to suit your own environment.

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y-haminator
I always get brain fog while at work or school, and it always dissipates when
I go home. I haven't found a direct cause yet.

------
whataretensors
No, but it could be that you are stretching your skills(good!). Exercise to
make sure it's not a physical thing, and be sure to take regular time off to
recover.

If you are working on challenging stuff all day, it's probably a really good
thing.

