
What is Turkey’s problem with Darwin? - tosh
http://al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2017/01/turkey-what-is-turks-problem-with-darwin.html
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lolc
Sad but not surprising. Looking at the Turkish society overall it seems to be
a regression to the mean. Even Gülen - the new designated enemy, former best
friend of the AKP regime - had a book written about how wrong evolution is.
And that guy is is a champion of education.

Turkish civil society unfortunately never got strong enough to counter these
cranks. Always torn apart by militarists, communists, and now islamists again.
edit: oops forgot to mention the ethnic nationalists, they deserve special
mention, fuckers.

~~~
Udo
I have to give it to the militarists though: they were certainly secular. When
the long-overdue recent military coup failed (or didn't happen, depending on
who you ask), it seems to me the flood walls just collapsed irreversibly.
Fundamentalist faith is on the rise worldwide, and Turkey has especially been
under attack from within and without for all of its history.

The country just feels lost at this point. It wasn't so long ago, Turkey was
considered an important ally of the EU, on track to become a member state.

Being German myself, we used to have a special relationship with that country.
People forget nowadays that there are so many originally-Turkish people in
Germany now because at one point the influx of Turkish workers was a welcome
addition to the German economy.

I often wonder about the parents of an ex-girlfriend, who after working their
asses off in Germany for their entire lives, moved back to Turkey for
retirement - for much the same reasons pensioners in the US move to Florida.
They were a friendly, modern, secular couple. I wonder what situation they
find themselves in now.

~~~
api
I wish secularists would do a little more soul searching on the question of
why fundamentalism is on the rise at all.

Personally I think it's pretty simple: fundamentalism offers a sense of
community and belonging. In the age of loneliness that's pretty compelling.
Secularism offers knowledge and information but nothing human -- no community,
no identity, no sense of place or culture. (I can't remember where I first
heard "age of loneliness" but I think it's accurate.)

~~~
Udo
_> fundamentalism offers a sense of community and belonging_

That's certainly an interesting point. I must admit I struggle a bit with
understanding where these people are coming from, because as an atheist I
don't personally experience a lack of community and belonging. I would imagine
a forced "sense" of community being prescribed at gunpoint to be quite
alienating, but I've heard enough people asserting it to take it seriously.

Maybe fundamentalist islam is just a meme whose time has come. Maybe the
mindless, cruel herd is fundamentally more appealing to humans than
individuality and free thought. In that case, we're not just seeing the
pendulum swing here, we're seeing the transition into a new civilization:
devoid of science and insight of any kind, yet wielding the tools of
technology for maximum devastation.

~~~
api
I agree to an extent but I still see judgement here "mindless, cruel herd is
fundamentally more appealing to humans than individuality and free thought".

Huge numbers of people today have _no_ friends and _no_ community. Read a book
called "Bowling Alone" for an America-centric view of the problem but it's
actually global.

~~~
Udo
_> but I still see judgement here_

That judgement is absolutely intentional. How can I not judge the abject
surrender to herd mentality in particular, and fundamentalist belief in
general? It's bidirectional, by the way, fundamentalists have no problem
judging (and doing worse to) me for refusing to submit.

 _> Huge numbers of people today have no friends and no community._

To be fair, the rational answer might not be to join the Borg.

It's debatable how much say common people even have in the matter when their
whole region converts to religious governance. This leaves us with the people
who do choose it for themselves, and they're faced with a non-trivial
question: "do I agree with these values or do I just join in order to embed
myself into a community, any community?"

For those who agree with the fundamentalist message anyway, community is not
the driving factor. The message itself is. Those who merely surrender to the
message superficially in order to achieve community will probably become
disenfranchised quite soon, because the community they chose is a dangerous
place, even from the inside. What use is it to be surrounded by people if you
still can't connect with them fully? However, by that point, the damage is
done: by the rules you can enter, but you cannot leave ever again even if
there's still a "you" left. Apostasy costs your life.

------
sukruh
It is tragic to see millions of people denied a basic understanding of the
world and themselves.

~~~
baq
Those who understand, question. Those who don't, obey.

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acqq
> Islamic creationism exploded in Turkey, often using arguments borrowed from
> Christian creationists in the United States.

On that subject, the later are the leading force of misinformation in the
whole world.

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craigvn
I would expect that Trump will be leant on heavily to push similar changes in
the US. Maybe not throwing evolution away in schools, but teaching creationism
alongside.

