
America’s flat-Earth movement appears to be growing - okket
http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/11/daily-chart-21
======
jonah
Elon Musk and The Flat Earth Society had this twitter exchange[1] a couple of
days ago:

@elonmusk "Why is there no Flat Mars Society!?"

@FlatEarthOrg "Hi Elon, thanks for the question. Unlike the Earth, Mars has
been observed to be round.

"We hope you have a fantastic day!"

[1]
[https://twitter.com/FlatEarthOrg/status/935644892721762305](https://twitter.com/FlatEarthOrg/status/935644892721762305)

~~~
sohkamyung
Reading the thread on that tweet, I have no idea if @FlatEarthOrg is really
advocating for a flat earth, or just a parody account.

~~~
jonah
Indeed, like the whole "movement". Their site though, has news, a forum and
Wiki: [https://www.tfes.org](https://www.tfes.org)

I suppose there's a spectrum of how firmly tongue is planted in cheek.

~~~
DanielleMolloy
Maybe it started out as a parody when setup of websites and internet usage
still had a difficulty barrier, and then after some time started to attract
real loonies. Might indeed be fun when all you wanted was a parody and then
random people come and start discussing seriously about flat earth.

------
zoul
> NASA chose not to weigh in. A spokeswoman told the Washington Post: “we
> don’t think there’s a debate to be had.”

<3

~~~
teamhappy
That's actually really important. Trying to convince irrational people with
rational arguments is kind of a moot endeavor anyway, but to an uninformed
observer NASA debating those people may end up looking like whatever they're
debating is apparently worth having a debate about.

~~~
ralusek
I actually despise this argument, though, because it's increasingly used to
prevent legitimate arguments from happening.

There is a growing likelihood for people in this country to feel that their
ideas are so morally correct, that opposing viewpoints should be ignored or
suppressed. Two very common arguments I hear that seek to accomplish this are
that a debate should not be had because they don't want to create a "false
equivalency" (the argument you're making here), or that they don't want to
provide the other party with a "platform." There is no such thing as a false
equivalency in debate. In reasoned discourse, foolish ideas should be exposed
and dismantled.

~~~
zoul
The thing is, is it really reasoned discourse when you dismiss centuries of
scientific evidence by pointing to a global evil conspiracy?

~~~
Joe-Z
Yes. Pointing to a global evil conspiracy held up over centuries is a very
weak argument, compared to what round-earthers could bring to the table. So,
one would assume reasonable people would be convinced by the round-earthers.

------
aryehof
This movement appears to essentially be a phenomenon of the USA. What is it
about American culture that leads to such thinking?

~~~
bromuro
they have a similar attitude for many things: trump vs obama, religion vs
science, apple vs microsoft, angular vs react, flat vs round, “me” vs the
others, US vs Russia... i believe it is because competitiveness is a pillar in
the american society. it is sometimes so important to lead to the absurd.

------
Nydhal
I have this crazy theory (just for fun) that flat-earthers are people who want
to be taken to space, as in they fake the disbelief in order to advance space
exploration. If I bet you $1000 that the earth is flat you'd have an incentive
to prove me wrong, the easiest way is to make going to space for me to observe
the earth from a distance as cheap as possible. In this age of outrage it is
easier to get people interested in a subject by spurring controversy than it
is by igniting their curiosity.

------
andrewguenther
If you're up for a chuckle, I highly recommend the Flat Earth Society FAQ
page.

[https://wiki.tfes.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions](https://wiki.tfes.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions)

~~~
loopbit
Well, at east that page answered a question I had:

If these people believe the earth is flat, where is the center?

I find it interesting[0] because with this answer[1] they also provide the
means to prove them wrong. If that map was remotely close to being accurate,
then circumnavigating the globe following a southern latitude should take
much, much longer than following a northern latitude. Or easier: Flying from
Johannesburg to Antananarivo (2150km, 3.5 hours by direct flight) should be
much, much longer than from London to Moscow (2500km, 3.75 hours).

And I think I know what a flatearther would say; "Conspiracy!!!"

\--- [0] Maybe interesting is not the word... funny?

[1]
[https://wiki.tfes.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions#What_does_t...](https://wiki.tfes.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions#What_does_the_earth_look_like.3F_How_is_circumnavigation_possible.3F)

------
mnm1
This is just another stupidity fad. America's full of them: flat earth, anti
vaccination, climate change deniers, etc. It's fashionable in certain circles
to be an idiot.

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golergka
[http://prntscr.com/hh5fdt](http://prntscr.com/hh5fdt)

Yes, I really don't think it's a serious account.

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__warlord__
One way or another everyone is ignorant about something, the problem is when
people start to feel comfortable in ignorance and they do not make the effort
to open their minds to change.

I wonder if there is something systematic in the US of A's education system
that allows this or if it's just arrogance on their ideas and "national"
pride.

But with all this divide in that country I hope other governments and more
important, people from other countries do not take them as a role model to
follow. But that's just my 2 cents.

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nasredin
IIRC there was a study that said the most effective way to fight stupidity is
by ridicule and not by actually educating or debating these folks.

I can't think of NO BETTER target to ridicule than the flatearthers.

Like I said below the man in the Whitehouse seems to brought out the racists
and other stupid people out of the woodwork.

There were ALWAYS there BTW, they just seem more emboldened than before.

~~~
SCdF
Do you have a link to this study?

Intuitively to me, that seems like the opposite of what you should do. If you
ridicule someone, they just go deeper into their crazy group, and are exposed
to even less correct information. Additionally, people who are a _little_
ridiculed get pushed toward those who are also ridiculed for crazier ideas,
because they feel accepted there.

~~~
nasredin
The researchers found that the rationality speech and the ridiculing speech —
but not the empathetic speech — were effective in reducing belief in the
conspiracy theory.

[http://www.psypost.org/2016/12/study-rational-arguments-
ridi...](http://www.psypost.org/2016/12/study-rational-arguments-ridicule-can-
reduce-belief-conspiracy-theories-46597)

\---

I was wrong, BOTH rational and ridicule methods are effective. Ridicule is
probably more amusing though. LOL.

~~~
SCdF
Very interesting article, thanks!

It looks like this study was done by people who only just heard of the
conspiracy (and so, if my anecdotal experience is anything to go by, they have
less investment, especially because they haven't put any personal action into
researching it).

I wonder if / how this would differ if you tried to reduce the belief of
someone who was deep into pizzagate or something like that. Someone who has
formed an identity around believing this kind of thing, someone who feels like
they themselves "discovered" or pieced this stuff together etc.

~~~
nasredin
I would think most people are conspiracy consumers rather than producers or
dissiminators like Alex Jones.

There's also the genuine held belief aspect. I think some of the latest
conspiracy theories are not born out of a genuine held belief, but are used
just to troll or for political purposes (Obama is a Muslim). Also IIRC
Pizzagate was born out of 4chan, it just escalated QUICKLY.

I am guessing trying to debate someone who is genuinely invested in a
conspiracy (spent time and money) is harder than someone who listens to late
night radio and watches Alex Jones.

Sorry to keep posting OT and about politics but do you know who would be a
perfect candidate to study believes in conspiracy theories SO deeply held that
they keep talking about them after they no longer matter? Rhetorical. It's
Trump. He keeps talking about Obama's birth certificate, losing the popular
vote to illegal voters and a new one, the Pussygrabbing tape is fake.

So everybody loves conspiracies, even presidents - a simple, black and white
explanation for the increasingly complex, dangerous, chaotic time (e.g. DPRK).

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yannis7
Just indicates how many bored hipsters have enough free time to engage in
post-ironic trolling

~~~
Arnt
Modern boredom involves pressing buttons on a laptop. Pressing buttons on a TV
remote is _so_ 20th century.

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convery
I mean, 9/10 of the people associated with the movement (online) are trolling.
Just like the original 'alt-right', mainly people making fun of extremists
while pretending to represent them.

~~~
myrryr
look how that ended though.

~~~
Cthulhu_
Snowball effect, with a hard core of trolls and Russian influencers.

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ColinWright
Also discussed yesterday:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15805754](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15805754)

------
LfLxfxxLxfxx
next up: America's stork-delivered reproduction society

~~~
DoreenMichele
My ex will be in that one.

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mm4
they are just pretending right?

