
Dear Google Recruiting... - cperciva
http://www.daemonology.net/blog/2014-01-27-dear-google-recruiting.html
======
brucehart
I don't understand why it bothers people so much to be contacted by
recruiters. I just send a quick reply that says "I appreciate the interest,
but I'm not looking for new position right now.". It takes me about 10 seconds
to type that sentence and hit send. It takes me such little time that I
probably would not remember if they contacted me again a year later.

I'm always grateful to have skills that are in demand. I have friends in other
fields that are not so lucky. No need to be the girl that tries to tell
everyone how attractive she is by complaining about the attention she receives
from guys.

~~~
rogerbinns
> I don't understand why it bothers people so much to be contacted by
> recruiters.

It likely depends on how big your online footprint is. I've been on the
Internet publicly since 1989 and hence you can find me all over. That also
means recruiters do. I have no problems with the ones who are good at their
jobs, but about half are below average, working on commission, and their
tactics are the same as spammers (spread yourself indiscriminately far and
wide). Many are downright scammers such as taking resumes off the net and then
pretending to represent those people, or scraping job postings off websites
and then pretending to represent those companies.

At the top of my resume I put a "note to recruiters" that makes it clear what
I am good for. It is very clear then which recruiters have made even that
miniscule effort, versus just started spamming right away.

I'd say I see about one good recruiter for every 20 spammers. And that is what
is bothering. Even worse the lack of response or saying no doesn't deter the
spammers so you have to do something about it. I made a blocklist in the end.

[http://rogerbinns.com/recruiters.html](http://rogerbinns.com/recruiters.html)

~~~
d23
> but about half are below average

> I'd say I see about one good recruiter for every 20 spammers

These two seem contradictory, but the second statement strikes me as much more
true than the first. Recruiters in this industry seem to be more parasitic and
less knowledgeable than even real estate agents, and I say that with great
hesitation. Any job where the attracting principle is "ooh money, and I don't
even need to know anything!" is probably not usually a service that's worth a
damn.

~~~
larksimian
Statement 1 is tautologically true.

~~~
aaronem
No. Consider the sequence (2, 2, 2, 10).

~~~
pyduan
The "average" is not a technical term in statistics. It's a shortcut in
everyday speak for some measure of centrality. What you're referring to is
(probably) the arithmetic mean, but the average can be any other measure (for
example, when you talk about "average speed" you're not using the arithmetic
mean, but the geometric one), including the median.

Also, in this case the mean and the median are probably close to the same
thing since recruiter skill is likely to be normally distributed, but that's a
different story. </nitpick>

------
adnam
Dear Colin,

You're extremely lucky to have talents that are highly sought-after and well
paid. I know many talented architects and designers with experience who just
scrape by. Just ignore Google's recruitment advances and move on :)

~~~
cperciva
_Just ignore Google 's recruitment advances and move on_

If I thought I was the only person being annoyed by them, I would probably do
this. But I've spoken to lots of other developers who get similarly annoyed by
Google recruiters despite their attempts to tell Google Recruiting to stop
contacting them -- so I figured it was worth writing a "ha ha only serious"
public piece in the interest of getting Google's attention and maybe saving a
lot of developers that same occasional irritation.

~~~
huckyaus
> I've spoken to lots of other developers who get similarly annoyed by Google
> recruiters despite their attempts to tell Google Recruiting to stop
> contacting them

It might have been worth mentioning this in your post.

As it stands, the faux-formal structure, slightly melodramatic tone and
repeated references to your cushy career situation make it read like a classic
humblebrag.

~~~
tptacek
He doesn't need to be humble. Google would be extremely lucky to have him.
Let's stop wasting time pretending that he's lucky to be contacted by them, or
that he needs to be careful about how he presents this. He's at the top of his
field. Get over it.

~~~
huckyaus
I'm not questioning his ability or professionalism.

I take issue with the fact that the stated intention of his post - to get
Google's attention and prevent similar incidents in the future - is at odds
with the tone of his writing. That's all.

~~~
cperciva
The intended tone of my writing is "funny enough that someone at Google might
notice and do something about this problem". Sorry if that didn't come
through.

~~~
glurgh
It comes through just fine. It's possible your detractors have just had the
good fortune of not experiencing the 'pesky recruiter' problem, Google or
otherwise. You can take heart in the near certainty that, if they work in the
technology field at all, they will.

------
tptacek
Dear Every Recruiter That Has Called Me In Last Couple Years,

I know you think you can help me find awesome Rails programmers in the Chicago
area or whatever kind of developer it is you think you're great at sourcing,
but all I can think of when you call us to pitch your services is that my
company's name is going to end up in a blog post like this.

Go to hell,

Thomas.

------
pyduan
Given Google's emphasis on quantifying every aspect of recruitment, I wouldn't
be surprised if the reason is because their numbers show that contacting
people who previously rejected offers was more likely to result in a hire than
contacting people who never interviewed, and that they decided that ignoring
"do not contact" instructions was worth it after some time. Basically, kind of
an retargeting strategy but applied to hiring. I understand why this may be
annoying to you, but your case is probably rare enough that they decided to go
along with it -- I would think that most people do not care enough about being
contacted by companies they do not want to work for to complain. I do not
condone this but the assumption that you may not feel as adamant about not
working at Google as you did two years ago (during which a lot can happen)
seems perfectly understable to me.

With that said, your post does come across as really obnoxious. Asking to have
an "ON PAIN OF DEATH" mention added on their file? Really? I dislike having my
instructions disobeyed as much as the next guy, but if I counted properly this
is _6 emails over more than 7 years_. Surely one could live with receiving one
unwanted email every year or so? It's not like it's that hard or time
consuming to just ignore a message or to decline politely -- after all, a lot
of people do it multiple times on a daily basis, and I'm sure you do too.

This is too bad, because the tone of your post distracts from the perfectly
valid (but IMHO, minor) point that this policy does imply things about Google
they view themselves.

------
slyall
I like being contacted by Google. I'm not really interested in interviewing
with them ( long process, doubt I'd pass, would have to move ) but it makes me
feel good that the top tech company (YMMV) in the world is interested in
hiring me.

~~~
mgkimsal
This isn't a knock on you - I was contacted last summer. Had a long chat, but
didn't pursue it, as I'd have to move. That wasn't the only reason, but a
primary one. To me, I had about 5 minutes of feeling valued, then the cynic in
me started thinking that they must be scraping the barrel to contact me. I
don't mean it in a self-loathing "i suck" sort of way, but... they must be
tapping out 'locals' already to be reaching out across the country. They
really can't find anyone else within driving distance who's at least as
qualified as me?

------
arkem
Disclaimer: I used to work at Google and have some incidental knowledge of
Google's recruitment practices but am not an expert.

Many of Google's recruiters (especially the sourcers who are looking for
candidates) are temporary contractors.

These contractors generally have a tenure measured in weeks and they are vying
for one of very few full time positions. This high turnover, low institutional
knowledge, and desire to distinguish themselves would be my best guess at
explaining why the "Do Not Contact" note is not being respected.

~~~
thkim
This is what I figure as well. Sourcing and incentive structure Google has in
place for recruiting naturally gives "do not hire" note won't be respected.
It's a problem that needs a systematic solution, but probably not worth the
cost to fix it.

~~~
err4nt
Get an agent, if you're that in demand you can hire somebody else to handle
your recruiting and opporunitites for you?

------
rl12345
Dear OP

Yes you have the right to not be contacted by Google if you don't want so.

But may I advise you to not get pissed by the fact that your labour force and
intellect is being greatly demanded. Disturbance apart, you should be
thankful.

~~~
cperciva
I don't mind recruiters contacting me. I mind recruiters contacting me _when
the file in front of them tells them that I 've specifically asked them to not
contact me_.

------
magicalist
I understand being annoyed that they ignored your request, but would it really
lessen your recruiter spam by an appreciable amount? I get such random
requests, eliminating a single company wouldn't make much of a dent.

I've just gotten good at hitting shift-3 or e (depending on my mood) in gmail
the second I sniff recruiter in an email.

~~~
cperciva
It's not the emails which bother me; it's the fact that they're ignoring
explicit instructions.

~~~
adharmad
How do you solve this for recruiters other than Google? Surely you must be
getting a lot of traffic from them too....

~~~
cperciva
I can't think of any other company which has had recruiters continue to
contact me after I've replied "nope, not interested".

------
paulrademacher
You could have just solved the problem by taking a job at Apple, Adobe,
Intuit, Lucasfilm, or Pixar!

------
krapp
Dear Google... ignore these dilettantes. I'll bend over as far as you want.
Holla.

------
ggreer
I also turned Google down after interviewing [1]. They contacted me every six
months to see how I was doing. Eventually, I asked them not to contact me
again, and they haven't.

Other recruiters haven't been so nice, but it's important to remember that
recruiters are people too. Their jobs can be very stressful, since much of
their compensation comes from successful hires. I ended up writing a rather
conciliatory post, and I link to it whenever a recruiter contacts me:
[http://geoff.greer.fm/2013/10/23/dear-recruiter-please-do-
no...](http://geoff.greer.fm/2013/10/23/dear-recruiter-please-do-not-contact-
me/)

It has been quite successful. Replies from recruiters have been understanding
and pleasant.

1\. One cool thing about Google: They asked me to do a post-mortem to talk
about out why I turned them down. I met a manager at a coffee shop and
discussed my reasons. He also wanted to make sure that the interview process
had been enjoyable for me, and asked for feedback on what they could do
better. I was impressed by their thoroughness.

~~~
cperciva
_They asked me to do a post-mortem to talk about out why I turned them down._

I had the same experience, although for me it was a web survey rather than a
face-to-face interview (probably because I wasn't local). Whether they
actually paid attention to what I told them, I'm not sure; 99% of the problems
in the interview process were due to my recruiter screwing things up, but she
got promoted a few months later.

------
ameister14
I totally understand why this is annoying and can sympathize. However, it was
probably a mistake to write a blog post about it and put it around. Not
because of any backlash against your future prospects or because you're now
missing out on some opportunity, because that's not your problem.

I just think that by writing this in the way that you have, you've tarnished
your personal reputation. If you're fine with that, then no big deal. But from
this article and reading up on you, I know objectively that you are very
intelligent and extremely accomplished in your chosen field, have a skill-set
that is in constant demand, and are somewhat foolish.

If I were to complain about a problem almost no-one in the world shares, I
would do it privately. This public complaint is particularly worthless since
your complaint is likely not going to have an impact on whether or not some
temp recruiter at Google will try to hire you in 3 years.

So, it doesn't accomplish much for you, and it convinces a whole bunch of
people that you don't appreciate what you have.

~~~
pgeorgi
The problem isn't _that_ uncommon. Google recruiters truly carpet bomb the
market (as defined by LinkedIn, it seems) with introductions.

I only got them off my back after stating (twice) that I have a life and as
such won't move ~10 timezones for a job.

------
d0m
What a jerk. I thought once of using Tarsnap.. now I know there's no way I'll
ever use or recommend this product. Ask a support question about Tarsnap? Bam,
blog post about you annoying the shit out of him with your question.

If you are not interested in an e-mail, it takes about a third of a second to
press "!" in gmail.. that's a free way pass to the spam folder. But the person
sending the email, the recruiter, won't know it. So a quick: "No thank you.
I'm more than busy right now and not interested in new job opportunities"
would do wonder.

And FYI, the last time a google recruiter tried to recruit me, we had a very
nice chat about my own startup (Hacking Health) where we pair technical
talents with health professionals to find innovate solution in healthcare.
These guys are very well connected and can introduce you to so many people..
So, if you think it's okay to be jerk to them, then realize that you're
closing the doors to great opportunities by doing so.

~~~
tptacek
And now we know how much your recommendations about secure backup software are
worth. Thanks for sharing.

~~~
d0m
>> secure backup _software_

The software isn't the problem - it's probably great - it's the _service_ that
I wouldn't recommend.

~~~
tptacek
I don't even understand what you're trying to communicate anymore. "The
software's great! But don't ever use it!"

------
throwaway_yy2Di
I wish I had problems that resembled this. :(

------
frostmatthew
I doubt the time it took you to write this is less than the amount of time it
would take to simply ignore their emails.

~~~
tptacek
Said every spammer ever.

------
Bahamut
They seem to cast a wide net as far as their recruiting efforts goes. I kinda
wish they put more effort into identifying unexperienced hires as well, as I
remember expending quite some effort to try to get hired by Google after I
left graduate school, but to no avail. Now I have shown my quick ability to
learn (which was already proven by my education) in the world of development
and now I get contacted...and I don't know whether I want to work for Google
anymore.

I deeply question their talent identifying apparatus. Even worse for them, if
they did a correct analysis, they probably would have saved a lot of $. It
would probably take over 2x what I am making now to woo me over, and that's
not necessarily guaranteed.

~~~
magicalist
Why didn't you just apply? I imagine that a recommendation from a current
employee would boost your chances, but I don't think a recruiter contacting
you changes anything over just a resume submission, at least not at most
companies.

~~~
Bahamut
I did before - multiple times.

------
mgkimsal
When google asked for my resume (which... oddly enough, they already had
because that's how they said they got my contact info), I told them to bing
for it. Haven't heard from them since. Perhaps that'll get them off your back
in future.

------
10098
This guy is so full of himself

~~~
chris_wot
It's very rare I say this, but he has every right to be.

------
victorhooi
Hmm, I've had variable experiences with Google Recruiting.

I had one experience which was very good, with a Google Engineering team - I
didn't end up passing through - but they made the experience fun (good
questions), and they were very gracious hosts.

I had another with a Google Sales team in Australia - where they made me do
some four-page online assessment, answer more questions - then booked me in
for a phone interview at 09:00 - then emailed me at 17:00 the day before to
cancel.

Their reason - oh yeah, the years of experience we required has changed...

------
krstck
It's just insulting when recruiters don't do basic research on the people that
they contact. Yeah, it's not the worst problem to have in the world, but I get
the feeling that a lot of these people are just spamming anyone they can find
in a particular keyword and then expecting those people to do the recruiter's
job for them.

------
the1
as a girl on okcupid, I fully understand this.

------
eksith
People seem to be missing the crucial point here.

It isn't that they keep ignoring the "DO NOT CONTACT", it's _why_ Google wants
his services so badly in the first place. What does Tarsnap do?

Think about it. Google wants to be bullet proof. Probably internally at first,
but then maybe roll out the benefits to other services.

~~~
cperciva
I highly doubt any of the recruiters who have contacted me know what Tarsnap
is.

------
510
I can't see a good reason for posting the names of the recruiters in this
post, and can't see why this is that "special" of a case. Maybe if they called
that many times, it would be legitimately annoying. But a few spam emails? I
don't know many people who would emotionally react like this.

------
Oculus
Imagine a world in which Google recruiters have a profile of you on their desk
of likes, dislikes, likely life goals, and potential avenues to woo you into
joining them. I imagine Facebook has a dataset that could be applied to make
such a thing and soon (if not already) so will Google.

------
hohohmm
Why's this post even up? He just needs to get a bigger inbox and learn to use
the archive button.

------
mooreds
Is Google unique in this? Or is this a generic tech company/recruiter problem?

~~~
cperciva
Google is the only company I've found which seems to be unable to take no for
an answer. I get lots of recruiter spam from hedge funds, but I don't think
any of them have ever re-contacted me after I've told them not to.

------
arikrak
so google contacts you every couple years. must really clog up your inbox...

------
JeremyMorgan
Eh, I've been contacted by them too. Probably a large portion of the HN
audience has. It's called throwing out a big net, it's not like they're
personally begging you.

------
gejjaxxita
I was contacted by a Google recruiter recently and have a phone interview set
up now after a phone screen. Until I read this I was feeling pretty pleased
with myself :(

------
founder4fun
WoW you are publicly complaining about Google trying to recruit you?

Have you read how people treated this guy
[http://valleywag.gawker.com/startup-stud-hates-homeless-
peop...](http://valleywag.gawker.com/startup-stud-hates-homeless-people-ugly-
girls-and-pub-1150802451) or this guy [http://valleywag.gawker.com/happy-
holidays-startup-ceo-compl...](http://valleywag.gawker.com/happy-holidays-
startup-ceo-complains-sf-is-full-of-hum-1481067192).

IS your goal to be label yet another arrogant/ignorant tech douchebag? That
just might now happen!

------
doug1001
on the bright side: enduring the unimaginable suffering which this horrific
indignity has obviously caused you, will strengthen your character.

------
pbriggs
#Humblebrag

------
krishna2
Now you can ask them to add a link to this post. "DO NOT CONTACT but if you
still think you should, please check this link".

------
shawndumas
as a front-end engineer I have just been abducted to work in a hiring war room
at my company (30 FTEs in 30 days is the mandate)

seeing and having to do what sourcers do for the last week has been eye-
opening. identification, assessment, and engagement of skilled candidates is
super hard and very time consuming.

I have nothing but sympathy for these people now...

------
dsjoerg
If only Steve Jobs were around, he would put the industry cabal back in place
and fix this problem for you pronto.

------
benologist
Isn't this spam you can report because it's illegal? If not what's the
difference?

------
mrpickles
Every considered working for Google? I hear the perks are great!

------
almin
so obnoxious

------
benihana
I think about my friends from high school and college who are struggling to
find meaningful work when I read things like this. I try to imagine what it be
like from their point and it comes off like an entitled prima donna is
complaining about being recruited by what one of the coolest companies on
earth. Honestly I think as an industry we should try to keep some perspective
here.

~~~
d23
To me it comes across as the reverse of sour grapes: "Oh woe is me, I'm being
solicited by diamond salesmen to add extravagant adornments to my golden
palace. Can't they just understand that my platinum plated safe contains more
diamonds than they could ever offer? Why is life so hard?"

~~~
rmrfrmrf
see also: #humblebrag, #whitegirlproblems

------
freeasinfree
This is beyond a First World problem

~~~
carbocation
How about a "First Percent Problem"?

While I agree with the sentiment, I also agree that if Colin is repeatedly
asking the company not to recruit him, they should respect that (and should
have the first time, too).

Perhaps if he puts a time limit on it, that will make things more clear (e.g.,
"Do not contact me for 100 years").

