
What Happens When You Swear At Your Users - alexschiff
http://blog.fetchnotes.com/post/17155558880/what-happens-when-you-swear-at-your-users
======
bradleyland
This probably goes without saying, but your user demographic has a lot to do
with how this kind of mishap will be received. Our product sells to Fortune
1000 companies in the procurement software space. I can tell you,
unequivocally, that the users of our product have a distinct lack of tolerance
with regard to "lack of attention to detail".

We've had a debug message or two slip through to production, and the
conversation that follows is never comfortable. The inevitable conclusion they
reach is that if we miss one small thing, we're likely to miss another.
Sometimes you really do have to sweat the small stuff.

~~~
yonasb
Exactly what I was thinking when I read this. If their users had been parents
40+, I'm willing to bet they'd have a slightly different reaction.

~~~
mayoff
As a 41 year old parent of a 16-month old, I can say that some of us are still
humans with a sense of humor.

~~~
bradleyland
We definitely have customers that would find something like this funny, but we
have plenty of large customers that wouldn't. When your ASP is around $100k a
year, you really want to avoid losing even a single customer to something
silly like using unprofessional language in a test email.

~~~
sirclueless
I can only speak for myself, but _I_ certainly have considerably more of a
sense of humor and tolerance for mistakes in a product that costs $2 versus
one that costs $2000. If you are charging me serious dough, then you better
damn well have your ducks in a row. If you are offering a free product, then
all you need is enough redeeming qualities to hold my attention.

------
patio11
You shouldn't say radioactively stupid things to your customers, but you
_should_ get their permission to talk to them and then proceed to do so,
because that will predictably raise engagement, retention, and many other
things you might be interested in tracking. Look at the graph. Look at the "I
had totally forgotten about you until you sweared at me, now I might actually
use the service" testimony. These things can be yours without swearing.

I've been worried for the last five years that I don't send enough email.
After having worked closely with some clients who have figured things out,
this strikes me as less "a missed opportunity" and more "an oversight as
glaring as being unable to spell SEO." They get _tremendous_ value out of
connecting with their customers on a semi-regular basis, and (this part truly
blows my email-hating-spam-squashing mind) so do their customers.

------
MicahWedemeyer
I've learned over the years to never put profanity or anything even mildly
offensive in test data. Too many times have I had to give an impromptu
presentation off my test database, only to see user names like "Asshat Joe"
and "Jack Off" show up big and bold on the projector screen.

Always, always use plain, non-offensive vanilla boilerplate text in everything
you do.

~~~
Lewisham
Yeah, I've been trying to bang into the heads of the students that I TA that
"there is no test data - only fake data." Test data always seems, to me, to
mean meaningless junk. Names like addresses to Dicksville, IL do nothing but
accidentally get leaked to someone they shouldn't, and they can't be
validated, which creates a whole nest of testing problems.

Fake data, like John Doe, San Francisco, CA, doesn't share these problems.

~~~
gaelenh
I read a story a couple years ago about a couple who had there home raided
over 50 times over a 4-5 year period by NYPD. Turns out there address was used
as test data in the system, and it was leaking into the police's
forms/database. So, if using fake data, make sure it can't be mistaken with an
actual address/phone number/dna sequence.

~~~
justincormack
There are already defined sets of telephone numbers that can be used for fake
data <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictitious_telephone_number>

Also of course example.com. Not sure if there are non routeable physical
addresses.

~~~
tripzilch
> Not sure if there are non routeable physical addresses.

Santa Claus, North Pole, Snow Street 1

Sherlock Holmes, London, 221B Baker Street (is a small museum afaik)

~~~
thristian
It's actually the address of the Sherlock Holmes Museum, so not wholly
inaccurate.

I'm a fan of "Bilbo Baggins, 1 Bagshot Row, Bag End", personally.

~~~
tripzilch
Oh, not small then? :)

~~~
zem
very small, but worth a visit.

------
SoftwareMaven
I really hope every brand doesn't decide to start swearing at me. Personally,
after having a product that was supposed to be "the next step" in our
company's evolution get blasted in the press because a developer left a
smartass comment in (Google "you have to install directx dumbass"), my policy
is NO profanity, period, in any string, any test message, anything.

If you are _trying_ to build a brand around it, great. Make a conscious
decision and go with it. But doing it to be funny, "just amongst the team",
has a nasty way of biting you.

~~~
khyryk
No results found for "you have to install directx dumbass".

Am I missing something?

~~~
yread
_Orem, Utah-based Viewpoint DataLabs, which managed to include the following
in its LiveArt install:

Setup is unable to locate a suitable version of DirectX on your machine. You
will need to install DirectX before you can use LiveArt98, dumbass!_

<http://funehumor.com/fun_doc3/fun_0303.shtml>

------
krmmalik
Personally, i really don't like to see profanity in a professional context,
but having said that...i really like the way these guys handled it, and not
only that, their honesty and transparency really endears me towards them.

Edit: Interestingly enough, come from Britain, i think something like this
would fair worse of in the UK. I think we're a little more 'stiff' than our US
counterparts.

~~~
mindcrime
_I think we're a little more 'stiff' than our US counterparts._

Sure, until you've had a few pints in you! Then you lot are apt to do
anything...

Or maybe I just read too much "Bastard Operator from Hell."

~~~
krmmalik
Yeah it can and does happen but fortunately its outside the workplace so an
event such as this probably wouldnt be the result of a drunken stupor ;-)

------
mindcrime
_We won’t be throwing around profanity in our emails, but we’re definitely
going to try to take a more “real” tone rather than the false formality that
pervades most company communications._

This, to me, is the key takeaway from all this. That "false formality" is a
killer, IMO. I personally try very hard to avoid it when writing Fogbeam Labs
stuff, like our blog[1], but it's SOOO easy to slip into that mode. Keeping
that out and maintaining a "real" conversational tone is tough, but I believe
it's better in the long run. (No, I haven't A/B tested this or anything, it's
just a hunch).

[1]: <http://fogbeam.blogspot.com/>

------
GnomeChomsky
Sorry this is slightly off-topic, but I'm curious about the product here. Why
should I use it? What problem is it solving for me?

Halfway down the homepage it says, "Don’t Change: Use Fetchnotes with Google
Apps, Evernote, Outlook and all the other services you already love." Which
was a great reminder that I already have a ton of other services trying to get
me to keep notes in them... what's different about Fetchnotes and why isn't
this plastered all over the homepage?

/unsolicited feedback

------
andywood
This really would have been more responsibly titled "What Happened When We
Swore At Our Users That One Time".

------
gergles
Even not using profanity but just failing to have someone else review all your
translation strings can cause a serious problem:

[http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/images/acidiot.g...](http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/images/acidiot.gif)

------
DanBC
Today you accidentally send out a test email (with the word bitches).

That makes me worried that tomorrow you'll accidentally send out another email
leaking my details, or something similar.

I'm glad you didn't suffer too much for this small error, but the small errors
can have big consequences.

------
roel_v
The problem (well it's not even really a problem I guess) is that nowadays
you're not sure any more if this was an 'accidental' slip up, or a bold
marketing tactic. They surely are getting a lot more exposure with the 'slip
up', and if it had backfired, well who cares really - in 2 months time nobody
will remember.

Maybe I've been on the internet for too long and have become too skeptical.

------
rickmb
_> we’re definitely going to try to take a more “real” tone rather than the
false formality that pervades most company communications_

This makes me wonder if by now there is an entire generation of tech
entrepreneurs that has never read the Cluetrain Manifesto:
<http://www.cluetrain.com/>

~~~
timthorn
There's a difference between formal language and the corporate lexicon.
Formality is a form of respect, but managementspeak is essentially a political
creation.

------
verelo
I know the feeling!

I was once part of a team who accidentally sent a communication where we
updated our privacy policy, stating specifically that we would never share
your email address with anyone.

Sounds normal right? The catch is, we sent it to 1000 people per batch, and
rather than bcc'ing everyone, we used the "to" field. Whoops? Luckily we
caught the issue after the first batch, i have no idea to this day how it
slipped through QA however.

Similar result however, people didn't like it but many just wanted to point it
out to us (and we did our best at saying sorry) I totally got where they were
coming from, however we're human and life went back to normal eventually.
Lesson learned!

------
wiradikusuma
I was working on some XML stuff and put superhero names in the test XML file.
A week or so, some QA guy asked for sample XML and I gave it to him. Before I
knew it, my test file was circulated in QA and Business Analysts for testing.

I guess they didn't read what's inside or didn't bother.

Then our client came and the BAs gave demo to them, using my XML file (I
didn't know if they're going to use that!). The client were very upset with
it.

------
ggwicz
I like swearing in copy because I don't want to take money from somebody
stupid enough to be offended by "bad words". It's a great filter.

------
alexschiff
Hi all,

Alex Schiff, co-founder and CEO of Fetchnotes here (and author of this post).
The quality of discussion on the things we post to Hacker News never ceases to
amaze us! I just wanted to point out that we posted an invite link by which
1000 people can get access to our beta on the blog post itself. You can also
get in directly with this link:

www.fetchnotes.com/invite/blogpost

Thanks!

------
djsla
It is a clever (accidental?) marketing, but will the traffic stick?

Naturally, after reading the post, I went to check what fetchnotes is all
about and... could not figure it after 30 seconds of scanning the homepage and
left.

Anyone else had that problem?

~~~
5teev
I had the opposite reaction: this smacks of amateurishness, leaving me
skeptical of the overall product.

------
harryf
As they say - the only bad press is no press at all.

~~~
gyardley
They do say this, but they say it about Hollywood celebrities.

For startups, most of the time bad press is just plain bad.

------
pconf
This is what happens when companies don't value QA and/or don't hire
experienced systems administrators. Even among experienced sysadmins email
list servers are special skill.

No surprise when startups shoot themselves in the foot because the hiring
director is a codehead who does not see the value in a sysadmin who cannot
double as a dev or who is over 45 years old.

------
ndefinite
I just noticed there's nt link to your product or homepage from your blog. I
wanted to click to learn about what your product is but there's nothing there.

Not the end of the world for me, I can copy from the address bar but I wonder
if you're missing out on conversions.

Cool story though. I got a kick out of the customer responding back
"...bitches"

------
AtTheLast
I've always been a fan of connecting to users on a more human and personable
level. This might have been an accident, but it made FetchNotes feel more
human and have a sense of humor. I think most people really appreciate this,
considering the majority of websites are bland and full of generic marketing
text.

------
bomatson
Alex - Great job handling this, I received the bitches e-mail and got a good
chuckle out of it!

Hope the traffic sticks for your team

------
runjake
Demographics are everything. To this old dinosaur, I'd question your maturity
and whether I'd want to be a customer in the future -- especially if you have
any of my personal data.

Unlike some of the other commenters below, I don't think it's an issue of
whether you have a "sense of humor" or not. YMMV.

------
adavies42
can i just say your combination of background and link color is incredibly
annoying?

------
goblin89
I think it should be ‘What happens when you accidentally swear at your users
and properly apologize afterwards.’ It's only the latter that softens and
makes swearing look fun—IMO even for (most) young techy people.

------
stefs
they've been lucky. it might work once for a small, "personal" startup or a
company that centers its marketing strategy on being political incorrect. but
it also could have gone terribly wrong.

~~~
joering2
mind sharing "how"?

~~~
buckwild
It shows un-professionalism. Users will associate that character trait with
the company.

What would you think if you received a similar email from Apple or Google?

~~~
paisible
Making mistakes is human. How you deal with them is what shows your
professionalism.

------
petercooper
This would make for an interesting split test. Patrick..?

------
alexrbarlow
Interesting, I think its a nice reminder that the same old emails are boring
to most users

~~~
mikaelcho
CD Baby had a great e-mail that they sent users after an order:

"Your CDs have been gently taken from our CD Baby shelves with sterilized
contamination-free gloves and placed onto a satin pillow.

A team of 50 employees inspected your CDs and polished them to make sure they
were in the best possible condition before mailing.

Our packing specialist from Japan lit a candle and a hush fell over the crowd
as he put your CDs into the finest gold-lined box that money can buy.

We all had a wonderful celebration afterwards and the whole party marched down
the street to the post office where the entire town of Portland waved ‘Bon
Voyage!’ to your package, on its way to you, in our private CD Baby jet on
this day, Sunday, December 11th.

I hope you had a wonderful time shopping at CD Baby. We sure did. Your picture
is on our wall as "Customer of the Year". We’re all exhausted but can’t wait
for you to come back to CDBABY.COM!!

Thank you once again,

Derek Sivers, president, CD Baby"

------
itmag
The bitches who got offended over this are drama queens who should get the
sand out of their vaginas and redirect their attention to something worthier
than petty trifles and smallminded grudgebearing.

------
5teev
It's minimizing the offense a great deal to call the word "bitches" a "swear"
and not misogyny.

~~~
Resident_Geek
"Misogyny" means "hatred of women", nothing more, nothing less. This is not
misogyny by any stretch of the imagination.

~~~
DarkShikari
By that logic, the "N-word" isn't "hatred of blacks", so it's not racist.

"Bitch" is a loaded sexist term, much like the "N-word" is a loaded racist
term. There's really never a good reason to use it when you can use something
else instead. And just because some people _do_ use it doesn't mean you have
to sink to their level when there's a thousand other words you could use.

~~~
mrtron
As Louis CK once said, dont say the N-word.

If you want to raise a point based on the word nigger, use it in full. Saying
N-word forces the reader to translate, which is jerkish.

In reference to your point, bitch is not a sexist word in modern slang.

------
cq
Please don't beat yourselves up about this, only men use the internet anyway.
Men definitely wouldn't be offended by this misogynist word

