
American Schools Are Training Kids for a World That Doesn’t Exist - callum85
http://www.wired.com/2014/10/on-learning-by-doing/
======
gscott
Just my rant on schooling:

My Son just recently graduated High School and now is in his first year of
college for dual major in Aviation Science (to be an air traffic controller)
and Business. His high school (Valhalla High School in El Cajon California)
gave him a test to determine his aptitude that said he should go into
"building maintenance" (being a Janitor more or less) and wouldn't move up his
classes to more difficult ones so he was in classes with kids who didn't
really want to be there and were continually disruptive.

Looking for a solution for this problem I found Grossmont Middle College which
is a high school on a 2 year college campus. My son was able to get into that
and finished high school with about 34 units in college classes most of which
transferred to the 4 year university he now attends (University of North
Dakota... why he wants to move from California to the freezing cold I have no
idea!).

Common Core can't fix the segregation of high schools between the rich high
performing kids and everyone else who isn't allowed into the higher level of
learning at schools. Every school is essentially 2 schools and if you don't
get into the right classes you are screwed big time.

Reading the article, personally I see what is wrong in schools more about
getting kids to where they want to be in life. Either college or a trade. For
those who want a trade they should get 2 years of High School and 2 years of
trade school along with some additional classes.

~~~
whorleater
Alternative view here:

While I don't doubt that your kid was hilariously unappreciated from the
school based on one test, I was a relatively lazy middle school student,
scoring B-C ranges on most of my classes as well as pretty much failing the
first aptitude test (pretty sure it said that I should be a truck driver). As
a result, I wound up getting placed into non-honors classes freshman year.
After a few weeks of finding the classes mind-numbling boring, I offhandedly
mentioned to my advisor that I wanted my classes to be more challenging, and
she immediately moved me to honors courses because of the fact that I had
taken the prerogative to tell her that I wasn't being sufficiently challenged.
Currently I'm studying Computer Science at a large state University.

Because both our examples have an n = 1 sample size, it's definitely not
correct to generalize high schools across an entire nation. However, in my
experience, high school advisors were more than willing to toss out aptitude
test results if the student had taken the prerogative themselves. While I
agree with the idea that "Every school is essentially 2 schools", the barrier
between them is honestly so low that it's not realistically a problem.

~~~
codexjourneys
You were lucky. At my high school someone from the regular track had to jump
through hoops and speak up loudly to be allowed into an honors English class.
Separately, my high school guidance counselor "lost" the application of a
student who wasn't doing very well in high school (it was the student's only
application to college, so this may very well have messed up her life for a
while), while constantly harassing me in the cafeteria to apply to more/better
schools. I believe (somewhat cynically) that her motivation was to make the
high school's acceptance rates look better.

But the real crime of the traditional education system, in my mind, is to
condition students to be so focused on jumping for gold stars that they don't
think about what they really want to accomplish and what activities (stars or
no) will get them there.

------
greedo
The article lost me immediately when it started mentioning food production in
Malthusian terms. It read more as a brochure for a cult than a fact based
essay.

~~~
stolio
You don't like Malthusian population doctrine?

If we add 2 billion people or 30% to the world population over the next 20
years it raises some interesting questions about feeding these new 2 billion
people. Especially since most of the projected population boom is coming from
countries who already have problems feeding their people:

> During 2005–2050, nine countries are expected to account for half of the
> world's projected population increase: India, Pakistan, Nigeria, Democratic
> Republic of the Congo, Bangladesh, Uganda, United States, Ethiopia, and
> China
> ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projections_of_population_growt...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projections_of_population_growth))

~~~
nowarninglabel
Because feeding people is not a production problem, it's a economic and
distribution problem. We already produce enough food to feed 2 billion extra
mouths, and there's no evidence to the contrary, there's issues with how
climate change will affect food production, but those models are still being
worked out and are on much longer timelines than 20 years.

~~~
njharman
No matter what kind of problem it is. It's still a problem.

~~~
nowarninglabel
Yes, but it makes it not a Malthusian problem. Malthus specifically stated
that population would grow at a rate greater than food production, of which he
was wrong. Neo-Malthusianism may take into better account the political and
economic aspects of the problem, but it's an important distinction.

~~~
stolio
I doubt that Niger, which is projected to quadruple in population by 2050,
will be able to scale their agriculture on their own. If they're even
sustaining themselves at this point.

Countries like that are able to increase their populations faster than their
food production because of trade, and their agricultural leaps are because of
outside help as well.

If the entire world was averaging 7+ children per woman I could see us hitting
a food ceiling pretty quick.

~~~
nowarninglabel
>If the entire world was averaging 7+ children per woman I could see us
hitting a food ceiling pretty quick.

That's the thing, as it turns out there is a very high correlation between
"birth rate" and "infant mortality rate", so as you reduce the infant
mortality rate, the number of children per woman reduces drastically.

As for looking at food production solely with a country, it's a bit silly
since we know all countries have international food trade (heck, even North
Korea). The real question would be if Niger can _afford_ to feed their
population.

~~~
stolio
It's an important question whether or not these countries can grow their
agriculture (which implies infrastructure and institutions as well) at an
exponential rate. If they can't, then Malthus was right. If they can, Malthus
was wrong.

Seeing as sub-Saharan African countries are struggling to feed the billion
people they have already, no they can't handle another billion. We're talking
about the poorest people on the planet here. Somehow we're so caught up in
being PC that we can't tell people it's a bad idea to have so many kids for
numerous reasons.

> there is a very high correlation between "birth rate" and "infant mortality
> rate", so as you reduce the infant mortality rate, the number of children
> per woman reduces drastically.

No. Correlation does not imply causation. A third factor is that infant
mortality rates drop as modes of living change. It's apparently urbanization
that causes people to choose to stop having so many children.

------
rayiner
The author ironically talks in one breath about feeding another two billion
people, and in another breath about how our educational system of "learning"
then "doing" doesn't work. How exactly do you think we've gone about making
the scientific advancements in food production that have allowed us to feed 7+
billion people? It involved teaching a bunch of kids basic biology, then
teaching them advanced biology in college, then teaching them gene splicing
techniques as well as research skills in graduate school, then having them
chip away at how to get more productive, hardier crops at a research lab.
That's also how we put a man on the moon, developed semiconductors, developed
several generations of nuclear power, hybrid and electric cars, etc.

There's certainly a place for learning by doing, and "discovering" but most of
the science that moves society forward is a very deliberate process involving
incremental accretions to the collective knowledge. And our educational system
is superbly designed to facilitate that process.

~~~
frogpelt
It is trendy to say the system is broken.

Perhaps we rely on the system more than people used to.

Hard work and dedication to learning is what created all those breakthroughs
you mentioned. The education _system_ contributed here and there.

~~~
rayiner
> Hard work and dedication to learning is what created all those breakthroughs
> you mentioned

Sure, but hard work and dedication is not a sufficient condition for building
a modern scientific society. What's crucial is also building the
infrastructure for passing along institutional knowledge to enable incremental
advances. The modern educational system is very well-designed to facilitate
that.

E.g. I studied aerospace engineering in college. You spend 4 years in college
+ 5-6 years in grad school learning everything about the state of the art.
During your PhD you push something forward a little bit. Then you go to Boeing
and figure out how to make the turbine blades withstand 5% higher temperatures
so you can get 3% better combustion efficiency. And at every step the system
is there to keep things moving dutifully forward. Eventually, you'll see you
started with a 737 and are staring at a 787.

------
zhemao
That's cool and all, but maybe we should make sure kids have the basics down
first.

An elementary school in my town had an attachment for sixth graders being held
back from advancing to middle school because they were functionally
illiterate. Somehow, none of their teachers in five years of school noticed
this.

Once all students are literate and have a grasp of basic mathematics, then
maybe we can talk about teaching "discovery".

~~~
novalis78
This is so true.

When my eldest was in 2nd grade I asked when they would be learning how to
(finally) start learning cursive. The school's response was that they don't
need cursive anymore because soon everyone will just be typing. Great, I said,
so when are you starting your touch typing class? School response: oh, we
won't need to teach that either, because in the future people will just talk
to their computers...(this was in Florida, one of the top school districts,
highly acclaimed A+ elementary school). I don't think banking on the
Singularity and a benign AI should be the education system's only policy... I
could barely decipher the 3rd-4th graders' texts. Spelling mistakes everywhere
("Don't want to stifle their creativity").

The daughter of a neighboring family did terribly at math. The school thought
she needed to repeat 5th grade. They got a tutor who concluded that she did
not know her multiplication table. Are you serious? Five years and no basic,
fundamental skills taught (but it's all about self-esteem, creativity,
exploration...). The girl started memorizing the times table, finally, passed
the last exams already improved. At the middle school they evaluated her 6
months later and found that she was "way ahead of the class" \- this is sad!

The ongoing war on memorization and lack of basic and elementary skills like
proper writing and mental math (from what I could see as a German expatriate)
makes it all unnecessarily hard for students.

~~~
Terr_
> The school thought she needed to repeat 5th grade. They got a tutor who
> concluded that she did not know her multiplication table. [...] The ongoing
> war on memorization

This might be down to different personal experiences, but... Is the "War on
Memorization" the same as the perennial "War on Christmas", while both become
more and more popular?

My memory is that memorization (like Christmas) was _rife_ throughout the
test-centric establishment, because it was the easiest thing to make multiple-
choice tests for, demanded relatively little from the teachers, and made it
simpler to create state-wide tests than more subjective fare.

What if there's plenty of memorization, but none of it takes because there's
no application, and because the student just moves to the next thing they have
to memorize?

~~~
novalis78
Interesting. We had very little multiple choice tests at school (Germany) and
did not consider learning for it "memorization". Memorization was trained for
on purpose by memorizing passages of text, famous/important works of
literature/poetry. The idea was the the skill of memorization would be helpful
generally speaking. Most tests where free form - i.e. you had to be
sufficiently capable of spelling/writing/explaining yourself on top of
answering the question at hand. In math/physics this included, obviously,
knowing equations and formulas by heart as they were not given. Several such
hour long written exams had a huge impact on your term grade. The other
emphasis was on oral exams (in front of the entire class), which were also
quite frequent and typically involved being able to express in your own words
questions related to topics covered over several months.

~~~
ende
Im curious, how would the German system in your experience handle students
with poor memory, severe social anxiety, dyslexia, ADHD, etc?

~~~
novalis78
They used to separate kids at every corner - thus the various school types.
Same for Austria. This is ca. 2-3 decades ago. ADHD was unknown. Kids that had
consistent learning problems would keep repeating classes until they reached
the minimum age at which they would train at vocational/trade schools.

------
balls187
> Having nearly exhausted nature’s ability to feed the planet, we now need to
> discover a new food system.

Source for this?

~~~
wyager
It's bullshit, of course. We exceeded "natural" food production capacity (if
you take agriculture to be "unnatural") a long time ago.

The only hard limits on food production are the amount of energy and
carbon/nitrogen/oxygen/etc. we can get our hands on. We are nowhere near these
limits. We still have plenty of room for growth left with current popular
agricultural technology. If that is exhausted, we have plenty of room for
growth through hydroponics, GM, etc.

~~~
DubiousPusher
Yes, the real limit on food production is profitability. Plenty of America's
arable land lies fallow or has condos built atop it.

I will say however that it seems some of our large food supply sources may be
in danger and the economic and human cost of pivoting a food supply chain will
be astronomical.

~~~
maxerickson
Only about 3% of the US is urbanized:

[http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/eib-economic-
informatio...](http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/eib-economic-information-
bulletin/eib89.aspx)

There is certainly lots of additional land that could be utilized with modern
farming practice. Water is probably the bigger problem.

~~~
DubiousPusher
The condo comment was kind of a joke. It's a Montanan joke so I probably
should've gauged my audience better.

My main point, which seems to have been lost here is that the main impediment
to increased food production is economic. Whether the economic pressures
creating the situation are born out of greed, over-regulation or something
else I didn't speculate.

The land is there. The water is there. The equipment is procurable as well as
the labor. It's a simple factor of motivation. Our semi-free market produces
the current amount of food. A more free market would likely (but may not)
produce less. A more regulated market could (but may not) produce more.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
I look forward to a time when micro-machines (chips?) produce proteins,
carbohydrates etc from raw materials (air?) Then energy, water and food become
one fungible thing.

Imagine cutting out the whole supply chain for staples (farming, machinery
production, transportation, middlemen, processing, distribution and sales) and
turning it into a machine on your kitchen counter that emits rice. Changes the
whole game.

------
diydsp
The author accidentally reveals the solution and it's not 100% congruous with
his own efforts:

"We “learn,” and after this we “do.” We go to school and then we go to work."

The actual solution is to continuously learn, after leaving school. That is
the formula for success. Getting fascinated by looking at 3-d printouts
("people enter words that turn into architectural forms") is a small part of
motivating people to do continuous learning- but no one will learn calculus in
a culture lab.

------
bayesianhorse
Learning "stuff that matters" should not be the goal of school. Most of the
details students learn will be forgotten after a year at most.

But during all this time in school the students develop the mental
infrastructure necessary for higher studies. In that sense even dead languages
can be of benefit, even if the students never use them again.

At the very least, sitting still and focusing on mental work trains the
prefrontal cortex which is essential for impulse control and discipline.

But today the focus is too much on learning practical skills, which often
aren't that difficult to learn and easily forgotten. Rote learning is
despised, even though it is the only way to build up the necessary memory
skills for certain subjects.

------
panzagl
Where have I heard this before...

Take up the White Man’s burden– The savage wars of peace– Fill full the mouth
of Famine And bid the sickness cease; And when your goal is nearest The end
for others sought, Watch sloth and heathen Folly Bring all your hopes to
nought.

------
at-fates-hands
_" Over the next twenty years the earth is predicted to add another two
billion people. Having nearly exhausted nature’s ability to feed the planet,
we now need to discover a new food system."_

Why does the author sound like he's saying we're going to add another 2
billion people to the current population over the next 20 years?

With a big chunk of the population being aging baby boomers, adding another
billion people over 20 years wouldn't seem like its going to tax the planet
any more that it is today.

I'm off course banking on a large aging population with falling birth rates.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Exhausted? Nonsense. Iowa grows enough food to feed 2 United States. America
could feed the world, right now. No, its societies that have failed to feed
their people, not Mother Earth.

~~~
RIMR
The point remains. People, and the societies they comprise are a part of the
Earth.

It's really funny how people view themselves as separate from the Earth. Aside
from the thousand or so people that have had the opportunity to travel to
orbit, when was the last time we left Earth?

If anything, we are just a unique geographic feature.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
No point remains. The earth is not some exhausted husk, as implied by the OP.
Its fecund and fertile and ready to produce orders of magnitude more food as
required.

------
ex_govt_it
Here I was thinking this would be an article about how the education system
fails to educate our children on how the world and the economy actually works
instead of an idealization from yesteryear.

~~~
germinalphrase
Indeed. It's hard enough to define curriculum around the world as it exists
right now, so how are we to steer this big ship toward designing curriculum
for the world to come?

The answer is that we (very probably) can't - so we should focus on preparing
our young people to be resilient, flexible, and motivated.

------
chiph
How does the Flynn Effect enter into this? [1] Because it seems unlikely that
we're getting both dumber and smarter at the same time.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect)

~~~
stonemetal
From your own link it doesn't seem to enter into it much if at all. Not only
has it had the least effect on school subjects but some of the increase has
been shown to be because of improved test taking skills rather than actual
intelligence improvements.

>There is debate about whether the rise in IQ scores also corresponds to a
rise in general intelligence, or only a rise in special skills related to
taking IQ tests. Because children attend school longer now and have become
much more familiar with the testing of school-related material, one might
expect the greatest gains to occur on such school content-related tests as
vocabulary, arithmetic or general information. Just the opposite is the case:
abilities such as these have experienced relatively small gains and even
occasional decreases over the years.

>Researchers have shown that the IQ gains described by the Flynn effect are
due in part to increasing intelligence, and in part to increases in test-
specific skills.

------
dcole2929
It's a small peice of the article and probably meant to be a throwaway line
but it still irks me whenever I hear people write/talk about how we are
reaching the end of our capacity to provide food for ourselves. There are some
7 billion people in the world right now and America by itself has the capacity
to feed all of them. The fact that there are still countries where people are
starving is kind of actually ridiculous. Another 2 billion people wouldn't
even be noticed. They would probably still all starve because hey there's
people starving now that we could feed but that has nothing to do with our
ability to produce food.

------
vacri
Americans 'discover' just fine. What they need to learn is to have the
political will to act on discoveries that require taking something other than
the path of least resistance. A culture of people raised in these magic new
labs is meaningless if society's professional decision-makers (politicians)
are allowed to continue their sport of stalling any change.

In short 'discovery' is not enough. Implementation is also important.

~~~
germinalphrase
My only gut instinct is that we need to drastically expand our society's
understanding of systems thinking.

If we could develop (even...barely...just a little) common understanding that
what you do impacts those around you (and those who will live in this place
after you) then perhaps we could regain some sense of common purpose, vision,
or responsibility.

------
WalterBright
> together, they are redefining what it means to learn in America.

This happens every 10 years or so. Google "Why Johnny Can't Read" and "New
Math" for examples.

