
Why is flaking so widespread in San Francisco? - luu
http://devonzuegel.com/post/why-is-flaking-so-widespread-in-san-francisco
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dfsegoat
To be clear, the author's usage of "flaking" refers to people who "flake out"
\- or frequently renege or "bail out" of plans they have made with other
people.

In my opinion - people who flake have a lack of self-discipline and a lack of
respect for anyones time but their own.

~~~
21
It depends on culture.

See the recent article about Brazil, where it's considered rude to arrive on
time, because everybody expects you to be at least one hour late.

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sethammons
But that would not be flaking, just being late, no? Are there cultures where
completely failing to do what you said you would is acceptable?

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tomc1985
Similar could be said for a lot of latin countries, though you are right --
they may be late but they do _show up_

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soared
A better question to ask is why does SF think its some unique city where
everything is different than the rest of world?

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dawhizkid
Having lived in SF for a few years now I would say it is _very_ unique (not
necessarily in good ways).

The weirdest thing about SF is that there are no kids.

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zampano
That really depends on which part of the city you’re in, my neighborhood is a
sea of strollers!

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dawhizkid
I guess, but I'm just saying walking downtown you just don't see families,
kids anywhere...whereas in most other cities you see kids, families, retirees,
students, workers, etc in the "public centers" of a city.

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zampano
My experience is only anecdotal, but I think most city centers I've spent much
time in (Austin, Houston, Tokyo) haven't had many families around during the
work week either. If you go to fisherman's wharf, you'll find it crawling with
families (undeniably mostly tourists), and most weekends you'll find Union
Square swarmed as well.

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docker_up
It has nothing to do with San Francisco. It's a generational thing that has
nothing to do with SF specifically. Read this article from last year in the
NYT:

[https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/07/opinion/the-golden-age-
of...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/07/opinion/the-golden-age-of-
bailing.html)

FWIW, I'm an old person and flaking wasn't as prevalent pre-cell phone. The
reason is that there was no way that you could get in touch with someone if
you changed your mind or if something came up, so the person would be waiting
there indefinitely. Also people would have much longer patience, I would
sometimes have to wait up to 1 hour for my friends to show up. Of course, the
reverse of that is if someone flaked more than a couple of times, you would
stop inviting them out or making plans with them, so it was a problem that
dealt with itself.

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mfringel
I'm disappointed. I was hoping that the author would go into the structural
issues with transport in the SF Bay Area.

One of the primary issues with the SF Bay Area is that it's 60 miles north-
south, and getting across the SF Bay is a major undertaking, both in time and
money.

Unlike cities like NYC (large and dense + a mostly functional transit system),
and Boston (small and dense + a vaguely functional transit system), travel
times are much more non-deterministic in the SF Bay Area, especially if plans
require people from multiple locations.

Ergo, the chances of people bailing on plans because some random traffic
incident will add 90 minutes to their travel time (and possibly miss most of
the event) is much higher in the SF Bay Area.

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manigandham
It's a general trend of being always connected. The original meetup is no
longer a high-priority focused event but can easily be replaced by something
else in a second. It also makes sending excuses easier with a simple text so
there's not much consequence for lack of commitment. This is exacerbated by
making everything into a "casual" experience with respect and professionalism
waning among youth.

People didn't flake as much when they had to actually call each other to make
plans, and couldn't communicate further until they were actually there in
person.

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malvosenior
> _This was really frustrating, because I’d taken an expensive Uber to get
> there on time._

The Bay Area is an expensive, slow, pain in the ass to get around. It's no
wonder more people flake (if that's actually true). There's always going to be
a reason _not_ to jump into bumper to bumper traffic or pay a $100 Uber fair.
Compared to NY where you can just jump on a subway and meet someone in half an
hour, it's a wonder people meet up in the Bay Area casually at all.

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dieterrams
In addition to flaking, people are highly reluctant to commit. Which is to
say, they won’t say yes or no until the last minute. This is just as rude as
flaking, given that many occasions require headcount for planning.

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thrill
If the last minute wasn't good enough then it wouldn't be the last minute. If
someone needs a headcount by a certain time, then state so and then that's the
last minute - not five minutes after getting a text message.

~~~
dieterrams
It’s typically implicit given the nature of the event.

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rgrieselhuber
San Francisco is flake central for sure, but I noticed that it's largely the
fakers who flake out on things. Most of the people I know running real
businesses know how to keep their appointments.

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gm-conspiracy
I would assume there is so much to do there, particularly impromptu things,
that it is a detriment to not be flexible.

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Uberphallus
> Everyone is even more connected digitally here than most other places in the
> world.

Someone needs to see more world.

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leeny
Am I the only one who's relieved when someone flakes on me? Less human
interaction ftw (of course in some scenarios it's really frustrating... but
for non-urgent meetings, flaking can be a boon to win back precious time and
energy).

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currymj
this is a stereotype of California, not just San Francisco. people make the
same observation about film industry types.

like every seemingly irrational and inefficient mode of cultural interaction,
there are some benefits to it.

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tw1010
It's pretty brave of her actually to say that she's experienced a lot of
flaking. Highly desired individuals probably don't get flaked very often, so
admitting you get flaked about 50% of the time is kind of admitting that you
have friends who feel like they have better things to do, which is admirable.

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solatic
Oh come on, that's like saying that victims have it coming to them. The fault
is on the person who flakes, and meeting a lot of people who flake is little
more than bad luck.

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pitt1980
This exchange does make me wonder how often she makes plans we people who've
already previously flaked on her.

There probably are ways to minimize the risk of getting flaked on.

Engineering your life for zero flakes, is probably sub-optimal though.

Probably a better strategy is just to keep a kindle with reading you want to
do with you (or something along those lines), so if you do flaked on, the time
isn't a total waste.

