

Low vitamin D linked to heart disease, death - tokenadult
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/26/us-vitamind-heartdisease-idUSTRE7AO1UM20111126

======
_delirium
While the headline is also true, the significance of this study (as the
article explains) is showing that supplementation can reduce mortality. It was
previously known that low blood levels of Vitamin D were linked to negative
outcomes, but it was much less well agreed whether supplementing with Vitamin
D would improve outcomes.

It's an obvious hypothesis, of course (low X associated with negative
outcomes, so increasing X will improve outcomes), but not necessarily
guaranteed: the low Vitamin D levels could've been symptoms of a different
problem that isn't fixed by just supplementing with Vitamin D; or the
supplements might've failed in various ways to be taken up or activate the
right mechanisms.

~~~
jberryman
An example of a similar obvious hypothesis that appears to be flawed: raising
"good cholestrol" with niacin supplements appears not to lower risk of heart
attacks as was widely assumed

[http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2011/05/28/136678665/study-b...](http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2011/05/28/136678665/study-
boosting-good-cholesterol-with-niacin-did-not-cut-heart-risks)

------
tokenadult
The interesting thing about this study is the finding on a classic "hard
endpoint," namely all-cause mortality. And what is worthwhile about this news
story is that it doesn't just regurgitate a press release, but points out what
issues haven't been resolved by the study. Those issues are always important
to keep in mind.

<http://norvig.com/experiment-design.html>

The first author

<http://www2.kumc.edu/internalmedicine/cv/jvacek.html>

and his lab

<http://www2.kumc.edu/internalmedicine/cv/publications.html>

appear to have some relevant experience and previous peer-reviewed
publications. A finding of this nature must, of course, be replicated by other
researchers.

Here is a link to the abstract of the e-publication ahead of print of the
underlying study in the American Journal of Cardiology:

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22071212>

~~~
danielharan
It must be replicated. In the meantime, it's probably a good idea for people
in Northern areas to take 1-2k IUs/day.

~~~
psykotic
Get your levels measured and dose accordingly. Most people are deficient in a
number of areas, and you can get screened for them all at once.

In the absence of that, if you're just making a qualified guess, you should
probably dose significantly more than 1,000-2,000 IUs/day. The daily intake
required for toxicity to be an issue are very high (sustained total intake of
around 20,000 IUs/day). It's also generally recommended that D3 supplements
are taken alongside a K2 supplement.

~~~
jerf
"Most people are deficient in a number of areas, and you can get screened for
them all at once."

May I double-click on that? What do you mean? Who do you go to, and what
exactly do you say to them? Which areas are you referring to?

~~~
psykotic
Talk to your doctor. They can take a blood test and send it off to analysis.
It can be somewhat expensive. When I said "all at once" I didn't mean that a
simple biochemical test can reveal all deficiencies, obviously, but that a
single blood test can be sent off to have many different tests done. I'm not
yet sure exactly how it works in the US, sorry.

The kind of deficiencies I had in mind would be vitamin (e.g. D, K), mineral
(e.g. iron, calcium) and electolytic (e.g. magnesium, potassium).

------
dhughes
About two years ago CBC news had a great segment on vitamin D and cancer
rates.

Anyone in northern (far south) climate isn't exposed to enough sunlight after
early Fall.

Even if you were outside naked all day you'd never get enough sunlight to make
enough vitamin D. It's even worse if you have a naturally dark complexion .

------
ScottBurson
I have personally found vitamin D supplementation to help with my mood and
energy level, at least in winter.

If you get a lot of sun on a summer day, your body can make as much as 10kIU.
So supplementing at the level of around 1kIU/day, which is what I do, seems
reasonable.

~~~
dgallagher
A friend on mine who has Multiple Sclerosis mentioned to me that it gets much
worse for him in the winter, and then gets better heading into the spring and
summer. IIRC low vitamin D is believed to make MS worse. He was going to try
tanning beds this winter to see if it helps (usually tanning beds are bad news
due to cancer risk, but in his medical case his doctor recommended it).
Disclaimer: All anecdotical.

\--------------------

Vitamin D is synthesized by your skin from sunlight using UVB rays. This is
interesting to note, indicating that being far from the equator does not mean
you cannot get enough UVB rays from sunlight during the winter:

 _The assumption that vitamin D levels in the population follow a latitude
gradient is especially questionable in view of surveys which have shown that
UVB penetrating to the earth's surface over 24 hours during the summer months
in northern Canada equals or exceeds UVB penetration at the equator.
Accordingly, there is sufficient opportunity during the spring, summer, and
fall months at high latitude for humans to form and store vitamin D3._

\-
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D#Production_in_the_ski...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D#Production_in_the_skin)
\-
[http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=13050&page=104](http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=13050&page=104)

Perhaps if true, that means when it's cold out people stay indoors and wear
lots of clothing when outside, effectively limiting sunlight exposure, meaning
less vitamin D production in the winter...

~~~
shirro
Living in the southern hemisphere (the one with the bigger ozone hole) and
being an import from dark cold places I turn into a lobster with moderate sun
exposure. It doesn't always get better heading away from the equator here due
to ozone depletion.

Adding computers, air conditioned comfort and a complete disinterest in
outdoor activities to the mix and I doubt if I get enough vitamin D to last me
through the winter. Skin cancer avoidance is well understood here and drilled
into kids from pre-school age but lifestyle changes may be putting some people
into other risk areas.

Curiously, I have a skin condition that is treatable by UV exposure, topical
vitamin D analogues and generally improves in summer yet as far as I know
there is no clinical evidence that vitamin D supplements have any benefit.

------
Rickasaurus
Wasn't too much vitamin D recently linked to heart problems as well?

[http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45325473/ns/health-
diet_and_nutr...](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45325473/ns/health-
diet_and_nutrition/t/vitamin-d-warning-too-much-can-harm-your-heart/)

------
kleiba
_D-deficiency also nearly doubled a person's likelihood of dying, whereas
correcting the deficiency with supplements lowered their risk of death by 60
percent._

Damn, and I thought that risk was at around 100%...

~~~
lwat
6% of all humans have never died.

------
lightweb
Best natural source of Vitamin D is Fermented Cod Liver Oil. It is truly an
ancient super food!

~~~
nazgulnarsil
I thought this too but it turns out that the massive dose of vitamin A could
be inhibiting D absorption as well as just being generally bad.

[http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA400033/Cod-Liver-Oil-for-
Vita...](http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA400033/Cod-Liver-Oil-for-
Vitamin-D.html)

------
MikeCapone
If you take supplements, make sure you take gelcaps and not dry tablets.
Vitamin D is fat-soluble, so it is absorbed much better in gelcap format.

Personally, I take 6000 IU/day during winter and 4000 IU/day during summer (in
Canada).

~~~
Joakal
Wow, you're really taking 10x the recommended dosage [0]. You're in fact, very
close to overdosing or according to some studies, already overdosing.

[0] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D#Recommendations>

~~~
MikeCapone
The studies I've seen have shown have very different numbers, and show that
our bodies are very good at dealing with lots of Vitamin D but very bad at
dealing with too little. From what I know, there is no known negative side
effects under about 14,000 UI a day, and based on blood tests, Dr. William
Davis, a cardiologist, has been recommending amounts in the range of what I
take (even a bit higher). The official recommendations have been too low for a
long time.

------
itmag
Are there any good startup ideas around testing and improving stuff like this?

Some ideas:

[http://ideashower.posterous.com/idea-bodyhacking-blood-
work-...](http://ideashower.posterous.com/idea-bodyhacking-blood-work-
community)

[http://ideashower.posterous.com/site-idea-informal-
science-e...](http://ideashower.posterous.com/site-idea-informal-science-
experiments-commun)

Or maybe CureTogether is already doing this?

~~~
ilaksh
Is there an OTC kit for testing vitamin D levels? ("Serum concentration of
25(OH)D is the best indicator of vitamin D")

Can someone make one of those nifty little bio-chip things (do those exist?)
that is connected to a little needle thing like electronic insulin monitors?

~~~
_delirium
There are companies that sell kits where you collect a blood sample at home,
and then mail it in for analysis (except in NY, which apparently bans medical
tests by mail).

Two examples:

<http://www.zrtlab.com/vitamindcouncil/>

[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004BYURTU/ref=as_li_ss_tl?...](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004BYURTU/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=abxxm-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399373&creativeASIN=B004BYURTU)

Not aware of the actual analysis equipment being available in a consumer-level
product, though.

------
lukeqsee
Is it just me or do these headlines essentially seem to read: "Living liked to
<X> disease, death"?

------
rubashov
Not to be the correlation/causation asshole, but I wonder if possibly low
vitamin D is to some extent a proxy for being a low income sedentary shut-in,
all things that on their own are tied to disease.

As the article points out Vitamin D supplementation is not very effective vice
working up a tan a couple times a year. So in modern America we can surmise
the individual with low vitamin D levels is someone who sits inside watching
TV all year. And can't afford a winter vacation to somewhere sunny.

Is the problem low vitamin D, or is it being sedentary inside all year? It's
probably actually the vitamin D.

------
ilaksh
Weird question: say you were only awake at night and therefore had very low
blood serum levels of Vitamin D. Would drinking a healthy person's blood
improve your own Vitamin D levels?

Just wondering.

~~~
sliverstorm
All my friends who live like that have a rather sour disposition, so I'm
guessing not.

~~~
ilaksh
You have friends who drink human blood?

~~~
gonzo
not for long!

