

Tell HN: We should say “shim,” not “shiv” - alanh

In the last 4 years, give or take, there has been a lot of discussion and work relating to adding features to old or sub-par web browsers.<p>These have been called, variously, “polyfills,” “shims,” and “shivs.”<p>What’s the best term?<p>Well, a shiv is a homemade knife-like implement, such as one created and used in a prison environment. Where’s the word come from?<p>&#62; <i>“a razor,” 1915, variant of chive, thieves’ cant word for "knife" (1670s), of unknown origin.</i> [1]<p>A “shim” is something that raises something up a level — that is exactly what we are doing within an old browser! Origin:<p>&#62; <i>“a slip of wood,” 1723, a Kentish word, of unknown origin. Originally a piece of iron fitted to a plow for scraping soil; meaning “thin slip to fill up a space or raise a level” is from 1860.</i> [2]<p>Similarly, “polyfill” originates from “Polyfilla,” a brand of wall filler (or spackling paste, which is less relevant). That also kind of makes sense: it’s filling a gap (in a wall, and now in provided functionality).<p>Please — two terms is already too many and hurts searchability. Three is absurd. Let’s start with, ahem, <i>cutting</i> out the obvious worst option. Don’t say “shiv” when you mean “shim”!<p>[1]: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&#38;search=shiv&#38;searchmode=none
[2]: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&#38;search=shim&#38;searchmode=none
======
gyardley
Speaking of etymology, from <https://github.com/aFarkas/html5shiv/#readme>:

 _Why is it called a shiv?

The term shiv originates from John Resig, who was thought to have used the
word for its slang meaning, a sharp object used as a knife-like weapon,
intended for Internet Explorer. Truth be known, John probably intended to use
the word shim, which in computing means an application compatibility
workaround. Rather than correct his mispelling, most developers familiar with
Internet Explorer appreciated the visual imagery. And that, kids, is
etymology._

At this point, grousing about shiv vs. shim is a bit like grousing about some
guy calling their dating tips a 'hack' - you're completely in the right, but
we all know what he's trying to say and life's short. Hell, if you search for
'shiv' in Wikipedia, you'll get (among other things) a pointer to shim, and we
all know what pedants they are over there.

------
jjs
> _Well, a shiv is a homemade knife-like implement, such as one created and
> used in a prison environment._

You've clearly never done hard time up at IE6 Zero-Security Penitentiary.

~~~
alanh
Ha! :)

------
incision
Wow, I had no idea shiv was so frequently misused on HN. I wouldn't have
believed it if I hadn't searched.

I'm equally surprised/irritated that someone went and stuck "or shiv" into the
shim article on Wikipedia back in 2011.

~~~
derefr
Well, for one thing, there's specifically
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5_Shiv>

~~~
incision
I noticed that.

I wonder how much of the confusion is owed to that project? That would go a
long way toward explaining why this confusion seems common on HN (lots of web
developers), but non-existent elsewhere.

By the way, the way that article immediately (second paragraph) addresses the
question is just odd and confusing.

 _While some people refer to it as "HTML5Shim" with respect to shim
(computing), there is no real difference between the names and as noted in the
code repository, the only difference is that "one has an m and one has a v -
that's it."_

Huh?

Of course, that section of the article like the shim article edit I mention
above is the work of one person in 2011 and the repository mention it cites
for support no longer exists.

------
platz
I believe shiv was used to mean something that didn't quite produce the
correct behavior 100% of the time, or only produced the correct behavior in
part. I agree these names are not intuitive but I believe that there are
subtleties to the naming variations.

------
mrj
If I met IE in a dark alley, I would reach for a shiv. Not a shim.

------
illuminate
Is "shiv" really a common synonym? I've only heard shim.

------
logjam
_His handlebars had started slipping. Not badly, he said, just a little when
you shoved hard on them. I warned him not to use his adjustable wrench on the
tightening nuts. It was likely to damage the chrome and start small rust
spots. He agreed to use my metric sockets and box-ends._

 _When he brought his motorcycle over I got my wrenches out but then noticed
that no amount of tightening would stop the slippage, because the ends of the
collars were pinched shut._

 _"You’re going to have to shim those out," I said._

 _"What’s shim?"_

 _"It’s a thin, flat strip of metal. You just slip it around the handlebar
under the collar there and it will open up the collar to where you can tighten
it again. You use shims like that to make adjustments in all kinds of
machines."_

 _"Oh," he said. He was getting interested. "Good. Where do you buy them?"_

 _"I’ve got some right here," I said gleefully, holding up a can of beer in my
hand._

 _He didn’t understand for a moment. Then he said, "What, the can?"_

 _"Sure," I said, "best shim stock in the world."_

 _I thought this was pretty clever myself. Save him a trip to God knows where
to get shim stock. Save him time. Save him money._

 _But to my surprise he didn’t see the cleverness of this at all. In fact he
got noticeably haughty about the whole thing. Pretty soon he was dodging and
filling with all kinds of excuses and, before I realized what his real
attitude was, we had decided not to fix the handlebars after all._

 _As far as I know those handlebars are still loose. And I believe now that he
was actually offended at the time. I had had the nerve to propose repair of
his new eighteen-hundred dollar BMW, the pride of a half-century of German
mechanical finesse, with a piece of old beer can!_

 _Ach, du lieber!_

 _Since then we have had very few conversations about motorcycle maintenance.
None, now that I think of it. You push it any further and suddenly you are
angry, without knowing why. I should say, to explain this, that beer-can
aluminum is soft and sticky, as metals go. Perfect for the application.
Aluminum doesn’t oxidize in wet weather...or, more precisely, it always has a
thin layer of oxide that prevents any further oxidation. Also perfect._

 _In other words, any true German mechanic, with a half-century of mechanical
finesse behind him, would have concluded that this particular solution to this
particular technical problem was perfect._

 _For a while I thought what I should have done was sneak over to the
workbench, cut a shim from the beer can, remove the printing and then come
back and tell him we were in luck, it was the last one I had, specially
imported from Germany. That would have done it. A special shim from the
private stock of Baron Alfred Krupp, who had to sell it at a great sacrifice._

 _Then he would have gone gaga over it._

\-- Robert Pirsig _Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance_

~~~
tekromancr
That is one of my favorite passages from that book.

