
PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub - protomyth
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/d3abgv/paypal-pulls-out-of-pornhub-payments
======
aazaa
Financial deplatforming is a monster, long-term trend to watch over the next
decades. Deplatforming happens with sex workers. It also happens in the US
marijuana industry. It happens with perfectly legal political content.

The number of ways in which someone, somewhere will be offended by products or
services for sale is growing, driven by a rapidly improving worldwide
communication network and delivery system, and by people terrified of the
change that brings.

The response by PayPal and many others has been to cut service. With each
case, the circle of people finding themselves cut off from the traditional
economy grows.

Bitcoin is often criticized for its lack of use cases. I find a very high
correlation between the strength of this belief and lack of awareness of
financial deplatforming in its many guises.

~~~
bcheung
I've had several friends in the adult industry have their checking accounts
closed at a several major banks as well. Traditional banking should definitely
not be discriminating against fully legal activities.

~~~
Bombthecat
Forbidden in germany. There is literally a law, which basically says: everyone
needs to have and is allowed to have a banking account.

~~~
egeozcan
I'm living in Germany, the bank account of my neighbor in Commerzbank was
closed because he wrote "hooker money" in description when sending money to
one of his friends. At least that's what we believe because they refused to
explain why. He could easily open another account in Volksbank and according
to him, when the new account manager asked and learned why his previous
account was closed, they had a pretty good laugh.

I used to get "funny" too when sending money through PayPal to friends, never
again.

~~~
alias_neo
I've been with my bank for 15+ years. One time I sent a payment of several
hundred £s to a friend who's paid my share of a holiday when booking.

In the description I put "fun times". I had a call from my bank asking me to
explain the payment the next day. I've never been called before nor since
that.

It certainly feels like they're a bit touchy about certain references.

~~~
MisterTea
> In the description I put "fun times".

I recently started using Venmo to pay a few people and the things I have wrote
are awful. Recent examples include: "Human organ trafficking" "Lunch and
murder for hire", "sack of shrunken heads" and so on. Let them call me.

~~~
cpursley
I put "Crimea" in a venmo transfer to my own wife and they will no longer
allow me to transfer funds to her.

~~~
yosito
I'm American. I went on a trip to Cuba for a free software conference, and
someone from the conference borrowed a few Cuban Pesos from me to get some
food before going to the airport. Later he sent me USD on Venmo for "Cuban
cash transfer" and they threatened to close his account, but he managed to
convince them that he was sending me money for lunch at a Cuban restaurant in
the US. Ever since then, I'm cautious about descriptions when I Venmo people
money.

------
linuxhansl
Whatever you might think of the various professions... As long as it is legal,
it seems the major payment service providers should not pass on their moral
code onto everybody else.

What's next? You get no water/power/whatever if you run a business that the
service providers simply do not agree with?

~~~
zamadatix
Water/power are utilities and are regulated differently than other industries.

But your general question is an open debate. If you run a hosting company do
you have to host things you disagree with? If you run a transaction company
doy you have to exchange with parties you disagree with? What if a certain
type of transaction is too high risk, do they have to do it anyways?

Personally I'd like to see things lean more towards being agnostic to avoid
amplification of the popular opinion but it isn't a cut and dry topic without
corner cases or hard to define regulations.

~~~
devit
I think the test should be whether another company could offer a service
giving the same result.

So for instance this would be fine:

\- A web hosting company refusing clients, because you can use another one

\- Amazon refusing to sell the item themselves, because other companies can
sell on the Amazon marketplace

\- A bank refusing a client, since you can just use another bank

This would not be fine:

\- Apple refusing to list an app on the app store, since no else can do so

\- Amazon refusing to allow an item on its marketplace at all, since there is
no other way to sell to people who buy on Amazon

\- Google banning something from their search engine, since that's the only
way to reach people who search with only Google

\- PayPal refusing a client, since using PayPal is the only way to easily
accept payment from PayPal account holders

~~~
baroffoos
So the general rule is that if the companies holds some kind of user lock in
they now must accept all legal users. Since a hosting company has no such lock
in and moving to another one lets you reach exactly the same audience then
they are safe.

------
mjevans
A chilling effect on free speech. Real alternatives to paypal and credit cards
need to enter the market.

It sadly looks like my favorite hope is still not ready, but I am hopeful that
this is due to slow and careful development that will lead to a stable long
term outcome. [https://taler.net/en/faq.html](https://taler.net/en/faq.html)

~~~
miohtama
There are alternatives. Even obvious ones like wire transfers (ACH, SEPA)
which have less fraud due to enforced two-factor and better online banking
cyber security. PayPal, on the other hand, is free game after you infect a
Windows PC with any malware.

The problem is that your CC number is both username and password. Cardsters
are looking ways to convert soft credit card money to something without
chargebacks. These services are fraud and money laundering magnets. Think it
as a same as publishing fake eBooks on Amazon and then sell them to launder
your income clean.

[https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/26/crooks-launder-money-
using...](https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/26/crooks-launder-money-using-real-
and-fake-amazon-ebooks/)

~~~
allset_
> enforced two-factor

In what world do wire transfers require 2FA?

~~~
purerandomness
The old world. Europe.

------
yunesj
I'm surprised that people suddenly think that banks aren't greedy enough to
profit from the porn industry!

Maybe the reason PayPal and so many other companies won't service adult
industries is that there are laws that put them within arms reach of criminal
liability?

On a related note, this reminds me of Operation Choke Point (2013-2017), where
the DOJ harassed banks that did business with customers in legal, but
"undesirable", industries [1].

[1] [https://cei.org/blog/operation-choke-point-targets-porn-
and-...](https://cei.org/blog/operation-choke-point-targets-porn-and-firearms-
potentially-violating-constitution)

[2] [https://reason.com/2014/04/28/doj-operation-chokepoint-
and-p...](https://reason.com/2014/04/28/doj-operation-chokepoint-and-porn-
stars/)

~~~
rpmisms
What a legendary name for an operation.

------
jimnotgym
A contributor once wrote on hn about the huge market for a porn friendly
payment system. Key feature, must not look suspicious on credit card bill...

~~~
spookthesunset
There are plenty of porn friendly payment providers. They just cost a lot of
money relative to "normal" merchants because of a few simple reasons:

1) Chargebacks -- people chargeback the shit out of these kinds of
transactions. Significant other sees the bill, gets pissed / confused about
the charge / whatever and gets it charged back. 2) Fraud -- people use stolen
CC's to pay for this kind of thing. 3) Porn operators are, as a whole, rather
shady themselves and present their own set of risks to a payment provider. A
lot of those chargebacks in #1 are actually valid chargebacks.

You could say "use bitcoin", which would solve the chargeback problem but do
nothing for fraud and shady porn sites. If anything it would exacerbate the
shady behavior because consumers would have no recourse against fraud.

In short, collecting payment for porn sites a tough, costly business.

~~~
Wowfunhappy
> Porn operators are, as a whole, rather shady themselves and present their
> own set of risks to a payment provider. A lot of those chargebacks in #1 are
> actually valid chargebacks.

...is there a logical reason for this?

~~~
jandrese
Society holds such jobs in low esteem, so the kind of people who take them are
the ones that are not worried about their reputation. There are a few who buck
the trend and keep it classy, but most are just the kind of people who will do
anything for a quick buck, including double-charging paying customers.

It's a viscous cycle, really. We treat porn producers like dirt only only
dirty people want to take the job which further reinforces our stereotypes
about said people. Plus the barrier to entry is real low and brand loyalty is
almost nonexistent so it's a prime industry for fly-by-night operators.

------
scarface74
I’m the last person to jump on the bitcoin bandwagon, but this is one case
where I think it’s warranted.

~~~
egdod
Nothing better than receiving your salary in a token with huge minute-to-
minute volatility.

~~~
a13n
Crypto replaces a major painpoint (chargeback, getting 0% of your money) with
a minor painpoint (volatility, losing or gaining <10% of your money).

There are other cryptocurrencies (eg Tether) that follow USD (eg 1 Tether is
almost always equal to $1.00 USD), to avoid issues with volatility.

I guess another issue is that you'd have to pay taxes on any gains/losses
between receiving your crypto and cashing it in for USD, and that would be
pretty annoying to calculate manually.

I'm not the biggest fan of crypto but I think it actually solves this problem
pretty well. There are probably other solutions too though (like only accept
debit cards / payment methods that can't be charged back).

~~~
Qwertystop
> There are other cryptocurrencies (eg Tether) that follow USD (eg 1 Tether is
> almost always equal to $1.00 USD), to avoid issues with volatility.

One of us is behind the times on Tether; last I heard they were in pretty
significant legal/financial trouble re: money laundering, not actually having
most of the backing dollars they claimed to, and possibly market manipulation.

~~~
andrewla
There have been various stories floating about litigation, solvency, and
market manipulation in tether. So far, the market [1] remains unconvinced:
tether trades pretty close to parity (sometimes even at a premium; liquidity
preferences being what they are), and prices between tether-based exchange and
USD-based exchanges are also pretty tight. So for the moment accepting payment
in tether USD is entirely feasible.

[1]
[https://trade.kraken.com/markets/kraken/usdt/usd](https://trade.kraken.com/markets/kraken/usdt/usd)

------
habosa
I hate that any online company can set arbitrary Terms of Service which they
know for a FACT I have not read (I didn't click) and then decide to pull the
rug out from me at any time because of that.

These companies are seriously important in our lives. If you take away my
payment source or my email or whatever you are potentially setting me on a
path to ruin.

I don't know what the answer is but I do think these companies should be
required to have an appeal process of some kind that's regulated. They have so
much power.

~~~
gorgoiler
Even if you did click to accept the terms of service, their server knows you
probably didn’t read it. They know exactly how long it was between you being
served the contract, and you accepting it.

Clearly if that time is anything under a number of minutes or hours you can’t
possibly be agreeing to the contract and so they should be duty bound to
refuse service.

I look forward to a test case where a judge rules a terms-of-service contract
unenforceable because the vendor logged that I read it in 3.2 seconds and
accepted that as me having read it.

Or maybe it’s time to start being _that person_ again, who reads contracts
slowly and in full before signing.

~~~
ianai
Actually I’d suggest we all take some time to learn the law. Actual legal
practices and whatever. I’m increasingly of the impression that lawyers are
the real first class citizens of a constitutional government.

------
kreck
Reminds me of this:

[https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-
dict...](https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-
of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15)

Private companies have no incentive to take a stand for individual freedom and
will always bow before the demands of a (loud) minority

------
mrandish
Perhaps an opportunity for Pornhub themselves to get into the payments
business? I assume they have enough transactional volume and vendors to make
it happen.

~~~
toomuchtodo
My hunch is that would incur unwanted liability from FOSTA-SESTA [1].
Producing content and paying talent out directly is fairly straightforward for
adult entertainment. There be dragons if you're attempting to build a
marketplace to do something similar.

"The Stop Enabling Sex Traffickers Act (SESTA) and Allow States and Victims to
Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act (FOSTA) are the U.S. Senate and House bills
that as the FOSTA-SESTA package became law on April 11, 2018. They clarify the
country's sex trafficking law to make it illegal to knowingly assist,
facilitate, or support sex trafficking, and amend the Section 230 safe harbors
of the Communications Decency Act (which make online services immune from
civil liability for the actions of their users) to exclude enforcement of
federal or state sex trafficking laws from its immunity. Senate sponsor Rob
Portman had previously led an investigation into the online classifieds
service Backpage (which had been accused of facilitating child sex
trafficking), and argued that Section 230 was protecting its "unscrupulous
business practices" and was not designed to provide immunity to websites that
facilitate sex trafficking."

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Enabling_Sex_Traffickers_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Enabling_Sex_Traffickers_Act)

~~~
devy
Genuine question, MindGeek[1] is a private Canadian company, why are they
subject to U.S. law if they build payment network outside of US?

[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MindGeek](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MindGeek)

~~~
kilo_bravo_3
Doing business with US customers in US dollars and interacting with US banks
automatically places you under the jurisdiction of US laws.

Investigators in EU countries often work with US agencies because our laws are
so much stricter, and often urge people under investigation to cooperate
otherwise they'll turn over the case to the Feds.

Tom Hayes, of LIBOR scandal fame, spilled his guts and signed a confession
after being told he might be handed over to the Americans. Then he tried the
aspergers defense, followed by the "I only confessed because they threatened
me" defense, but neither swayed the jurors and he got 14 (reduced to 11) years
in a UK prison.

That's not unique to the US. Countries own their currency and regulate their
banks therefore using them gives a country the right to control what you do.

This is grossly oversimplified but generally speaking, if I lived in France
and started a payment service that accessed the Japanese banking system and
performed transactions in Yen, I would be subject to Japanese banking laws as
well as French laws.

------
magashna
Would be interesting to see if this pushes PH to build their own infra top to
bottom

~~~
Justsignedup
necessity breeds innovation

~~~
OatMilkLatte
Porn breeds innovation.

See also: Flash video.

------
mbdesign
I know of Spankchain[1] who are working on solving this on the Ethereum
network.

Otherwise, I see DAI token being ideal for this coupled with locking your DAI
in MakerDAO [2] to earn interest.

[1] [https://spankchain.com/](https://spankchain.com/) [2]
[https://cdp.makerdao.com/](https://cdp.makerdao.com/)

~~~
pentae
It's a shame nobody cares

------
rhizome
See, if you have zillions of dollars there all kinds of financial instruments
that harm society (say, by reducing taxes paid), but any vice the little
people can partake in, either as producers or consumers, well, we have to keep
that on a short leash. Or kill it.

The financial industry's policies around sex and pot need a reboot. It's
ridiculous what they're restricting.

"I Hope PayPal's Dick Falls Off" [https://gizmodo.com/i-hope-paypals-dick-
falls-off-1839870796](https://gizmodo.com/i-hope-paypals-dick-falls-
off-1839870796)

------
fowl2
Presumably there's a reason that payment processors have straight up ban
customers instead of increasing fees to cover costs? I mean different
industries already have different risk profiles and fees.

I can think of an analogy to interest rates, which vary tremendously depending
on risk.

------
unreal37
17 years ago, my business partners and I were approached by a porn website
looking to get their website redone. (We didn't take the job, but it was an
interesting meeting.) He said that his biggest problem was "refunds".

It seems it was a common thing for people to buy his service (access to porn),
and then a few days later claim to the credit card company that it was an
unauthorized charge.

He told a story of an irate wife calling him on the phone one day and
demanding the charge be taken off her husband's credit card bill. She was
insistent that there was "no way" her husband would sign up for a porn
website. Well of course he did (or was it their son?). But he couldn't admit
it to his wife. And so she called the office of the porn website to complain.

I'm sure that hasn't changed 17 years later. Credit card chargebacks must
still be a huge problem.

Chargebacks make it a customer service nightmare. One of the highest refund
rates that credit cards get, the highest incidence of actual fraud (charges
that really weren't authorized), undisclosed recurring charges, etc.

Still, cutting off service to the models seems unfair. But refusing to deal
with the websites themselves actually has underlying business reasons other
than morality.

~~~
johnpowell
I have signed up for trials just because I wanted to grab a certain clip. And
while I was in there I would download as much as I can and then cancel. And
there is also that once you are done watching the last thing you want to do is
watch more. And did I just pay for that? Wasn't worth it.

Family Guy sums it up nicely.

[https://youtu.be/IzhIiJJdD9g](https://youtu.be/IzhIiJJdD9g)

------
gorgoiler
What are the biggest cost centers for a new payment provider? Software
engineers? Rack space? Dispute (fraud) resolution? Marketing?

~~~
spookthesunset
Fraud.

One of the factors in determining your interchange fees as a merchant is your
risk profile. It is why a grocery store has a different fee structure than a
gas station or a restaurant.

Almost the entire industry is driven by risk profiles.

~~~
gorgoiler
It feels like there’s two kinds of fraud, and I think you mean both?

(1) I buy a camera online, but the store mails me a brick. The payment
provider steps in (at their own cost) to investigate and resolve the fraud,
which is costly.

(2) The technology of the payment provider itself is subverted. For example,
someone clones the mag stripe on my 1980s credit card and goes on a spending
spree. Again, the payment provider picks up the cost of hunting down the
malefactors, and they also compensate me. Cost cost cost.

When the payment system is _cash_ , fraud is avoided by using vendors with
good reputations, or at least with verifiable business names and addresses to
allow legal action if they sell me a 24 megapixel brick. Protecting against
subversion of the payment mechanism itself is up to me (keep my wallet safe)
and the treasury (fancy holograms on bank notes.)

With modern online payment systems, are they legally obliged to always be on
the hook for the first type of fraud? Is the obligation because they are
providing a credit line? (I think this is the case in UK law at least, with
the Consumer Credit Act.) If the payment provider didn’t want to have to deal
with that sort of fraud, do they just have to avoid looking like they are
offering credit?

I hope that we can assume that in any modern online system, the only
occurrence of the second type of fraud is from insiders, as at launch (or at
least, over time) the crypto is unlikely to be breakable on the wire / with
card cloning / etc.

------
cabaalis
IANAL, why isn't a payment processor refusing to service a payment a form of
tortious interference?

~~~
mrosett
Refusing to facilitate isn’t interference.

------
goblin89
How thorough is Pornhub’s KYC?

In a business like that it may be quite difficult to detect exploitation. If
they don’t strive do a good job at it (which doesn’t especially align with
maximizing revenue), PayPal’s decision may be hard to criticize.

------
dextralt
>"... is a private company and it is their right to refuse service to anyone"

>"Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences"

>"en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope_fallacy"

Nothing is out of the order.

~~~
gnulinux
Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's necessarily neutral. We can
still argue this development being negative, for reasons unrelated to "freedom
of speech".

~~~
apta
We can also argue how it's a positive development.

------
selimthegrim
Sounds like Vice Ventures ought to fund a payment startup:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21538235](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21538235)

------
octosphere
There is an alternative called Liberapay[0] but I haven't tried it, so I can't
vouch for it. There is also Flattr[1], but Flattr is more for small
micropayments to show your appreciation for a project or piece of software
(not to mention you need a Paypal account to cash out your earnings). There's
also things like Buy Me A Coffee[2], but again, centered around small
micropayments (I imagine these performers need more than a coffee, although
when you have several fans buying you a coffee it's a good gig). Also: I'm
surprised nobody is talking about Patreon[3] (Prolly against their terms of
service too though)

[0] [https://liberapay.com/](https://liberapay.com/)

[1] [https://flattr.com/](https://flattr.com/)

[2] [https://www.buymeacoffee.com/](https://www.buymeacoffee.com/)

[3] [https://www.patreon.com/](https://www.patreon.com/)

------
denkmoon
With any luck this will compel Pornhub to make a more free financial platform.
They certainly have the technical capability.

------
blfr
Didn't Pornhub "verify" an account of a 15 year "model"?

[https://twitter.com/PornhubHelp/status/1189445175929647104](https://twitter.com/PornhubHelp/status/1189445175929647104)

That will probably give a pause to any payment provider.

------
wufufufu
Square and Cash App now is your time. You talk about economic empowerment but
are you really bout that life?

~~~
nickstinemates
Doubt. Porn is one thing, but, to take a moral public stand in the same year
of the Chef/Github/ICE controversy seems risky.

------
levismaina
An alternative would be a system like M-Pesa. It's based on your personal
phone line using the SIM toolkit, though there's also an app. Transactions can
only be carried out on the phone with the SIM installed though.

It's great for personal transfers, and many in Kenya already use it to pay sex
workers (usually cam girls selling nudes).

Corporates can have numbers (called paybill) where payments are made, though
they are vulnerable to government interference. Safaricom (the network carrier
running the M-Pesa platform) has already been ordered to shut down accounts
belonging to betting firms. But for personal transactions, regulation is hard
since nobody can tell why you sent a certain person money.

M-Pesa has never quite gained traction outside Kenya though.

------
solarkraft
There are so many stories of small time vendors just thousands of $ of funds
frozen out of nowhere, with no way of contacting PayPal about it.

What is their incentive to do this? Is PayPal in the business of randomly
hassling people? Is it for the entertainment of some executive?

------
adam791
Banks and other financial institutions are all about minimizing risk. If there
is a risk that an account enables sex trafficking or money laundering there
may be an internal policy to close the account as well as an obligation under
anti money laundering laws to report it to the government. It comes down to
the risk appetite of the bank. The bank stands to be fined if it is found not
to have reported on suspicious activity and there is reputational risk as
well. This is the reason a lot of banks would choose to de-risk and close the
accounts.

------
Jnr
Since I tend to read ToS and other agreements prior to signing, I was quite
surprised to see a similar restriction for Revolut.

In their case it is actually phrased in a way that makes it seem like you are
not even allowed to pay for pornographic content with Revolut, not just
receive money for it.

Not a problem for me personally but why would payment card providers make such
restrictions?

It had some other weird restrictions as well.

------
jccalhoun
I'm surprised paypal ever worked with pornhub because they have always been
skitish about pornography. More than a decade ago I was given a Girls Gone
Wild dvd and sold it on ebay only to find out that paypal didn't allow my
buyer to pay for pornography. (The seller just used paypal to directly send me
money that wasn't tied to ebay so it worked out in the end)

------
michannne
And this is where Square & Patreon's toe-dipping shows it's effects. You can
NEVER. N-E-V-E-R allow an organization to have that much power and then not
say anything just because they are targeting groups that you happen to also be
against, because in the end, they will get a taste of the power they wield,
the control they have, and they _will_ abuse it.

------
ghego1
Having a legal background, I would really like to evaluate the grounds for a
class action for discrimination. Legal tech companies are increasingly taking
moral stands, poorly motivated on dubious reasons, on legitimate and lawful
activities, while at the same time the industry has a tremendous
responsibility in enabling hate speech and gals information.

------
tiku
It really sucks if your money is being seized. I'm now in a situation at
MisterTango where they froze my assets because i need do show where my bitcoin
money came from. The power they have over you is so great, it really makes you
sick.

------
_pmf_
If Brave/BAT plays its cards right ... look at the top 2 entry at
[https://batgrowth.com/publishers/website](https://batgrowth.com/publishers/website)

------
frankzen
Yet people still refuse to acknowledge permissionless crypto as an alternate
form of exchange. Instead of sticking it to the Man, they want to stick to the
Man until the bitter end!

------
ashelmire
Sounds like a great opportunity to start another payment service. PornHub
already has a strong dev team, from what I understand, and it would probably
be relatively easy for them.

------
t-h-e-chief
One of the many reasons why I hate PayPal, Visa and MasterCard

------
will_crusher
The Adult industry has always been pretty hot on emerging tech, whilst a
shitty move from Paypal, Im sure that they might move to something a little
less standard.

------
tibbydudeza
I stopped using Paypal a while back ... don't won't any bizarre US cultural
norms and govt politics affecting my choices.

------
cryptozeus
I wonder how these kinds of trends will impact bitcoin and crypto. May be this
is good for crypto currencies.

------
commandersaki
Sounds like an opportunity for Mindgeek / Manwin to build their own payment
system.

------
jascii
I wonder how much money PayPal will make off of the interest on these frozen
funds..

------
classified
If you give the philistines the power to terrorize their fellow beings, they
will.

------
hackbinary
This just lends more evidence to the view that the system is rigged.

------
roddux
Good, hopefully it hurts the porn industry as a whole.

------
mola
Talk about one sided agenda driven reporting... Vice is such a sad excuse of
journalism. Too bad it is so representative of the entire media world. Most of
us forget something different can exist.

~~~
mola
To be clear, there are many issues with this industry, most players are very
sketchy especially how they treat the performers. Thats part of the reason why
mainstream businesses don't want anything to do with it. Maybe if they'll
clean up their act and get rid of the criminal elements, an article with this
tone would be warranted.

------
pkaye
How much is it a issue of chargebacks?

------
cetico
SpankChain.com may be a alternative?

------
jhallenworld
Good time to buy bitcoin..

------
arrty88
They should use Spankcoin

------
sk84life
It's really disturbing how your "cash register" can dictate what you can sell
?

I hope blockchain payments will come soon as possible to destroy these slow,
old school, opinionated payment gateways.

We are not free, we cannot have opinions or say publicly anything against the
system.. We are living like any other communist country.

Sad sad situation !

------
ganitarashid
There’s always bitcoin

------
billpg
"Models"?

They're modelling?

------
ryanmarsh
“models”

------
thephyber
Decent pun.

------
justboxing
Calling Sex Workers 'Models' is kinda rich.

~~~
lonelappde
They so stuff for people to look at at sometimes copy. That's modelling.

------
faissaloo
Damaging the porn industry AND promoting crypto? Christmas came early.

------
kennickv
This is the best title.

------
asmithmd1
Altered name of story, actually:”Paypall pulls out of Pornhub”

------
ur-whale
One more - in what is now a very long list - argument for bitcoin.

------
fooxbar
Bitcoin Cash to the rescue!

~~~
arcticbull
Remind me again how you plan to pay your employees when all the fiat gateways
also preclude this kind of transaction?

~~~
glenvdb
I think the lofty and idealistic "end goal" for cryptocurrencies is to be fiat
independent, so you don't need any fiat on/off ramps and you will be able to
use it for everyday purchases.

Whether that will realistically happen or not I have no idea, but that's the
promised land held onto for true believers.

------
justinzollars
Bitcoin will solve this problem.

~~~
EpicEng
Not until it's near as stable as the dollar it won't.

~~~
a13n
Tether follows the dollar (1 Tether === $1.00 USD).

~~~
Qwertystop
Not anymore, is it? Last I heard they were in pretty significant legal trouble
due to not actually having the 1:1 real-doller backing they claimed to, or
other assets of equivalent value, among other issues.

~~~
a13n
"All Tether tokens are fully backed by reserves."

[https://www.coindesk.com/tether-says-its-stablecoin-is-
fully...](https://www.coindesk.com/tether-says-its-stablecoin-is-fully-backed-
again)

Tether (USDT) $1.00 USD

[https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/tether/](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/tether/)

------
nintendo1889
I am vehemently against the illiterate rubbish posted on vice but this article
is an exception.

------
notacoward
Ironic that the story is on a website called Vice.

------
kiterunner2346
"...Pulls Out..."?!

An improper metaphor since it was the performers who got screwed, not Pornhub.

But, in the end, Pornhub _will_ be screwed (no pun intended).

------
craze3
I'm working on a decentralized app to remedy these type of moves by big
payment processors.

The new flow I suggest is: BTC -> Coinbase -> PayPal.

Withdrawals are instant & only subject to standard fees. The can funds can
also be instantly converted to cash, via the PayPal Business Debit Card.

References: [1] [https://blog.coinbase.com/instant-paypal-withdrawals-now-
ava...](https://blog.coinbase.com/instant-paypal-withdrawals-now-available-
for-all-u-s-customers-58b2958a13aa) [2]
[https://support.coinbase.com/customer/portal/articles/295995...](https://support.coinbase.com/customer/portal/articles/2959952-paypal-
faq) [3]
[https://support.coinbase.com/customer/en/portal/articles/210...](https://support.coinbase.com/customer/en/portal/articles/2109597-coinbase-
pricing-fees-disclosures) [4] [https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/business-
debit-card](https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/business-debit-card)

~~~
ur-whale
> The new flow I suggest is: BTC -> Coinbase -> PayPal

The flow still can be censored. As a matter of fact, you now have two
opportunities for your payment to get nixed.

~~~
waymore84
The point is to spend out of btc via means of PayPal though. The shift card
died because Switzer land couldn't hold it up.

~~~
arcticbull
The issue is and always will be the fiat gateways. If you do sufficient
volume, someone's going to snoop around and ask questions like, oh, I don't
know "where did you get this money and what did you say your business does
again?" BTC is not a solution to this problem either. Maybe for the buyer
since they're low volume enough not to raise eyebrows one way or the other,
but as the vendor it just won't help.

