
Why should we all wear face masks? - askaboutio
https://askabout.io/covid-19/ask/why-should-most-people-wear-masks/
======
dougmwne
PSA: This infographic applies to regular surgical masks. If you wear a
properly fitted n95+, the mask will protect you, even if others are not
wearing masks. Since n95s are in short supply, if you can get your hands on
one they can be sterilize for re-use by leaving them out to dry for 3-4 days.

[https://www.acoi.org/covid-19/n95reuse](https://www.acoi.org/covid-19/n95reuse)

~~~
blisterpeanuts
Your linked article specifically warns against subjecting the mask to
prolonged sunlight exposure. In other words, don't set it out in the sun to
dry. The reasoning is that the electrostatic charges of polypropylene are
damaged by UV rays, which apparently makes the mask less effective.

Yet, UV rays kill the virus. In fact, a few minutes in the sun is enough to
kill the virus in vapor, or on surfaces.

Maybe we need masks that are not vulnerable to UV, and thus could more easily
sterilized.

~~~
bognition
A few minutes of UV light kill the virus? This is the first I’ve heard, can
you link to a citation?

~~~
dragontamer
I don't have a citation. But it should be noted that COVID19 is an RNA virus.
Its a stray piece of RNA floating around in the air, without any cell walls,
cell membranes, or other apparatus for protection.

As such, any environmental effect: heat, dryness, humidity, UV-light, or
chemicals, will kill the virus extremely quickly.

\----------

With that being said: E. Coli can still grow on a mask, and I would recommend
proper sanitation of your masks. A "standard" bacterial infection would still
suck, even if it isn't COVID19.

So even IF COVID19 dies in minutes to sunlight (a fact that I find plausible,
given the very low levels of protections viruses have vs the environment), its
a bad idea to aim at "only disinfecting COVID19". There's many fungus,
bacteria, AND viruses that can get stuck on a mask.

\--------

Hydrogen Peroxide has been shown to be a strong anti-viral, anti-bacterial,
and anti-fungal agent. Or, toasting your N95 masks in ~180F ovens for 30
minutes also would do the trick. (Again: the higher temperature and time is
NOT for the easily killed virus, but for the harder to kill bacteria and
fungus)

I know that aerosolized H2O2 has been used to recycle / reuse masks in
hospitals. I don't know if liquid H2O2 is safe for masks. So I guess the oven-
toast methodology is the best I've heard so far.

Aerosol H2O2 is toxic however. And unfortunately, I don't recall the
percentage that they used for the study (3% is common household grade. But
hospitals are known to use 7% or 10% grade for disinfection purposes). H2O2 is
also highly reactive, so its possible it damages the mask somehow. But as a
cleaning agent, its both cheap and effective (as long as the base material can
survive).

\----------

For your cloth masks: your standard laundry detergent is a good anti-fungal,
anti-bacterial, anti-viral soap. The issue with N95 masks is that they can't
survive the laundry or other, more rigorous forms of cleaning. Throw some
chlorine bleach into the wash if you want to be extra sure (a 2nd, independent
anti-fungal, anti-bacterial, anti-viral chemical for good measure).

EDIT: Can someone please explain the downvotes? We have a classic A/B question
here. We should NOT only be aiming to kill viruses (which is extremely easy).
If we want to protect ourselves while using masks, we should aim at killing
viruses, bacteria, AND fungus. That is, all the different micro-organisms that
can be found on a mask.

~~~
jamessb
> But it should be noted that COVID19 is an RNA virus. Its a stray piece of
> RNA floating around in the air, without any cell walls, cell membranes, or
> other apparatus for protection

It is not true that a SARS-CoV-2 virion is just a "piece of RNA" with nothing
around it: they are enveloped by a lipid membrane with embedded proteins.

See, for example:

[https://pdb101.rcsb.org/sci-art/goodsell-
gallery/coronavirus](https://pdb101.rcsb.org/sci-art/goodsell-
gallery/coronavirus)

[https://pdb101.rcsb.org/learn/videos/fighting-coronavirus-
wi...](https://pdb101.rcsb.org/learn/videos/fighting-coronavirus-with-soap)

------
nkurz
Can anyone put numbers on the graphics? That is, assume the two people in the
graphic are sitting across a dining table (1m apart) and conversing in a
normal tone for an hour. What is the numerical risk of infection for the
uninfected party in each case: "High", "Low", and "Very Low"? How do we know
these numbers, and how confident in them are we? And how do the "High" risks
cases compare to the case not shown where neither party is wearing a mask?

~~~
caseysoftware
They left the "info" out of the infographic.

I was hoping for _some_ sort of information or data from this one.. as in even
a single citation to a study to read.

~~~
GordonS
I was going to say exactly the same thing!

I personally think wearing a mask indoors around others is a good idea, but
this "graphic" isn't going to convince anyone - it just states vague facts
without numbers or references.

------
jameslk
There's been some images/videos going around on social networks showing people
blowing smoke into a mask, with the smoke coming out around the edges of the
mask.

Here's an example: [https://imgur.com/a/5fb1A8M](https://imgur.com/a/5fb1A8M)

This has been used to back the claim that masks aren't effective whenever
debate around wearing masks comes up. Wearing a mask is going to cause less
spread than not wearing anything, but I'd like to see some research into this
specific point about "leaking" of air around the edges of the mask since it's
being used to shut down arguments about mask wearing.

~~~
wilde
The NIH did do some research along these lines.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4589201/#!po=1....](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4589201/#!po=1.13636)

That said, most of the debate at this point is motivated reasoning by people
who don't want to wear masks. :P

~~~
jameslk
This is close and also interesting in it's own right, but I don't think it
addresses outward leakage, only inward leakage. I'm not sure why you're being
downvoted but I guess that's HN for you.

------
darsoli
I don't understand the graphic on the left in the first example. Are they
wearing a different type of mask that makes the infection rate higher?

~~~
chrisoverzero
The rabbit on the left in the first example is a carrier who is showing
symptoms. They are red due to fever and coughing into a tissue. (Example 2’s
left is an a- or pre-symptomatic carrier.)

------
sildur
This assumes perfect face mask usage. What are the side effects of people
reusing surgical masks for weeks?

------
djsumdog
You have to assume 2 basic ideas for the masks to be useful. First is
asymptotic spread, which, although might be true, is more political and less
settled science[0].

Second, the ideas that masks work to protect people from you for respiratory
viruses. There's a 2013 study (way before the current political pressure) that
challenges this[1], and UIC Health also made a claim masks weren't necessary,
although now they have a big disclaimer over the opinion[2].

So why not just wear one. Even if those two are correct ideas? What about
people who can't wear masks? There are people who have suffered trauma. If you
say, "I can't for medical reasons" people just assume you're some right-wing
republican. There is judgement back and fourth when you make the masks a
requirement, and further you're asking people to disclose something that might
be very personal.

A man in Ontario was pepper sprayed and arrested by police for not wearing a
mask[3]. Police shot another Canadian man for not wearing one[4].

And we're not even talking about the psychological effects. Why is no one
making the connection between the normalization of the mask and massive civil
unrest?! It should be a very obvious hypothesis, and yet no one seems to be
discussing it (I talk about it here[5]).

Challenging mask ideology doesn't mean you want everyone's grandma to die.
There are legit reasons why this should be optional and not mandated. When you
mandate something like this, it breaks the social contract.

[0]:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23957495](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23957495)

[1]: [https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-
core/c...](https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-
core/content/view/0921A05A69A9419C862FA2F35F819D55/S1935789313000438a.pdf/testing_the_efficacy_of_homemade_masks_would_they_protect_in_an_influenza_pandemic.pdf)

[2]: [https://publichealth.uic.edu/news-stories/commentary-
masks-f...](https://publichealth.uic.edu/news-stories/commentary-masks-for-
all-for-covid-19-not-based-on-sound-data/)

[3]:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmaKvW1H2Tg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmaKvW1H2Tg)

[4]:
[https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/world/2020-07-17-canadian-p...](https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/world/2020-07-17-canadian-
police-shoot-man-in-mask-incident/)

[5]: [https://battlepenguin.com/politics/secondary-
effects/#masks-...](https://battlepenguin.com/politics/secondary-
effects/#masks-hurt-our-perceptions-of-one-another)

~~~
nickthemagicman
Completely agree with you. Unfortunately the mask narrative has won no matter
how weakly scientifically supported it is. And we're all along for the ride to
see where this takes us.

------
joncp
Alas, the anti-maskers I’ve interacted with already knew this information. In
general, they simply don’t care.

------
innagadadavida
It’s really hard for people to follow these unless there is some strong
enforcement like seatbelts. Another issue here: wearing mask 99.99% of the
time in public but venting it while sneezing/coughing defeats the entire
purpose and I think this is the only thing that really matters. I’ve seen a
few people do this in public.

------
ghthor
If I am not coughing, I dont need to wear a mask. You cant say I dont care
about other people if I'm not sick and not coughing/sneezing, but not wearing
a mask. You're acting like an authoritarian and you're treating people like
they are ignorant.

~~~
jedi_stannis
> Why? The U.S. CDC and most experts agree that many infected and contagious
> people don’t know they’re sick because they don’t have symptoms.

~~~
djsumdog
Well, that's debatable. The WHO made a statement that asymptomatic spread was
rare but then immediately walked it back[0], quite awkwardly I might add if
you watch the spokesperson's press video, most likely due to US political
pressure[1]. There are studies from as far back as February from Germany, that
challenged previous asymptomatic spread studies[2], and another one in May[3],
although that one comes out of China and may just be trying to cover their
response.

[0]: [https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200609/who-clairifies-
comm...](https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200609/who-clairifies-comments-on-
asymptomatic-covid-spread)

[1]: [https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/10/dr-anthony-fauci-says-
whos-r...](https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/10/dr-anthony-fauci-says-whos-remark-
on-asymptomatic-coronavirus-spread-was-not-correct.html)

[2]: [https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/paper-non-
symptomati...](https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/paper-non-symptomatic-
patient-transmitting-coronavirus-wrong)

[3]:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7219423/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7219423/)

