
Apple apologizes for failing MacBook keyboards yet again - subdane
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/03/apple-apologizes-for-failing-macbook-keyboards-yet-again/
======
mr-ron
The latest Mac design forced me to move to Windows again (thank you WSL) and I
put the bad keyboard on 3 points:

\- touchbar. Enough has been said about this so I will just say it's worthless

\- bad keyboard. Butterfly keys are too problematic and as they fail you end
up having to type harder so it registers. From there it's a slippery slope to
a broken keyboard

\- Overly huge trackpad. I don't see this get mentioned much but these things
are massive on the keyboard. Takes up so much real estate so if you are typing
on it you have to contort your hands and wrists so you don't accidentally
brush it.

Does anyone really use the full size of that thing? Do people really find
gestures to be all that important that you need as big a touchpad as this?

Currently developing on an X1 gen 6 and couldn't be happier

~~~
twiceaday
I have never had issues with accidentally brushing the trackpad because the
palm detection is great. A large trackpad is a selling feature of the laptop.

~~~
mr-ron
I get that its a selling point, but is a large trackbar better? Are you really
using the whole pad for your actions?

Legitimately I just tested moving around the screen. I am not using more than
3in x 2in at a time.

~~~
eridius
Given how good palm detection is, does it matter? A large trackpad means more
room for 4-finger gestures and less accidental triggering of the two-finger
swipe-from-right-edge gesture.

~~~
CountSessine
I’ve had problems with the palm detection while typing. It’s great but it’s
not perfect. I’d just rather have a trackpad like the previous gen. I wish
they still sold it.

~~~
mehrdada
There's a used market you know.

------
CountSessine
Ugh. Just change it back already!

 _I didn 't have to pay for the repair because I had AppleCare—an expanded
warranty program that offers free repairs for most hardware failures for three
years—but the receipt Apple gave me stated that it would have cost more than
$700 otherwise._

And having to buy $300 of AppleCare to get repairs for what are design defects
in a >$3000 laptop is outrageous. Where are our lemon laws for laptops and
smartphones??!

~~~
benologist
We'll be protected just after Apple terminates the free keyboard replacement
program and starts demanding $700 to repair them. Protected by having $700 a
year or maybe twice a year to renew your functional MBP keyboard subscription.

~~~
bluedino
Assuming the keyboard replacement time period is over on my 2016 MacBook Pro,
I will be selling it this fall so I'm not stuck with it if it fails again.

------
mnm1
They should apologize not only for failing keyboards, but for creating a
keyboard that is likely to give a lot of people repetitive stress injuries.
The previous model started this trend. Most people will, hopefully, not
experience this, but for people with RSI problems, each new generation of Macs
has been worse and worse. Compare this to the 2007 MBPro models and there is
simply no comparison. Unfortunately, the industry seems to follow wherever
Apple goes blindly and does not care about healthy use of its devices. I
expect a keyboard without any moving parts where one just jams on a glass
surface (like the magic trackpad 2) any year now. I just hope we have
universal healthcare in the US by then as worker's compensation is not too
keen to pay for obvious work injuries like this in many states.

~~~
eridius
Why do you think the MBP keyboard is prone to repetitive stress injuries?

~~~
melling
Maybe the short travel distance for the keys cause them to bottom out?

[https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7795970](https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7795970)

[https://medium.com/@mrmrs_/i-got-rsi-and-what-happened-
next-...](https://medium.com/@mrmrs_/i-got-rsi-and-what-happened-next-wasnt-
surprising-at-all-63ddb58b5e3f)

~~~
eridius
I don't buy the explanation given in that discussion thread. A quick googling
suggests that RSI from keyboards is related to how much pressure you have to
exert to move the keys, and the low-key-travel MBPs don't need much pressure
to press a key. This really sounds to me like it's just anecdotes and
confirmation bias (I got RSI now, it must be due to the new keyboard design,
as opposed to just continued use of keyboards over a long period of time
coupled with aging!)

------
PhantomGremlin
The problem of how to build a highly highly reliable keyboard was solved in
the mid 1970s (to my knowledge, perhaps earlier). The hall-effect keyboard:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_technology#Hall-
effec...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_technology#Hall-
effect_keyboard)

I worked for a company that used them for data entry. People would type on
them for 8 hours a day for months at a time. Reliably. It was hard to wear one
out.

Too bad Apple won't start with something smart like that and miniaturize it
for laptop use.

------
envolt
MacBook is supposed to be a no-trouble-device. You just buy once, sit back and
enjoy for rest of the life.

Removing USB ports certainly didn't help. What's the point of a good battery
life. If I've to carry connectors everywhere, I'm okay with carrying charger
as well.

------
r4hul
I don't understand Apple's obsession with making MacBook Pro thin. They are
compromising on everything. Sucks!

------
hsbaut76
Get a thinkpad :)

~~~
threatofrain
Are people in general not recommending the Dell XPS's anymore?

~~~
jefflombardjr
I suspect this is an unpopular opinion, but I would 100% prefer a Dell XPS
over the Lenovo think pad. Lenovo's touchpad and keyboard are garbage. And by
garbage I mean they're good, but nothing special. But if I'm dropping a decent
chunk of change on a laptop - I don't want good. I want better or great.

Granted I know the XPS isn't for everyone, but as someone who likes
portability I think they did a pretty good job on designing the machine. I
love how small the 13 inch is. I found it a joy to work on before I opted
instead for a MBP.

~~~
hsbaut76
I've compared the Dell, macbooks and the ThinkPad and I think the keyboard on
the ThinkPad is the hands down winner.

Touchpad is a different story

