
Confessions of a White Sushi Chef - Thevet
http://firstwefeast.com/eat/confessions-of-a-white-sushi-chef/
======
archagon
I read stories like this, and I wonder: does washing rice for 3 years really
make your sushi _that_ much better? The way sushi chefs talk about sushi makes
it sound like there's some sort of massive, order-of-magnitude difference
between them and the "sushi men". But at the end of the day, it's still
fundamentally fish over rice.

I can't help but wonder: if you look at the high-end sushi biz with perfect
objectivity, is it one of those "Joe Biden eating a sandwich" things? And if
not, why aren't most other "quick" foods susceptible to this level of rigor
and scrutiny?

Guess I'll have to visit Japan to find out.

~~~
venomsnake
> I read stories like this, and I wonder: does washing rice for 3 years really
> make your sushi that much better?

Probably not. With a proper training schedule and applying basic
engineering/scientific approach, I doubt it would take much time to learn to
wash rice to its proper starchness needed for sushi.

But when you are buying sushi you are buying a ritual. Not food. So your chef
must have washed rice for 3 years to make it real ...

It amazes me how the Japanese are so good at extracting value and price
premium for everything that is related to their way of life.

~~~
lmm
But that's where the value lies, no? Money in your bank account doesn't feel
good in and of itself. I think the rise of hipsterism over here is the same
process.

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zzalpha
_I began my official apprenticeship at age 28. My master physically beat me,
which is a common practice. It’s corporal discipline._

Oo

This sounds eerily like a hazing. The author even says things like "When a
white sushi chef says, 'I would work there, but it was too demanding,' then I
say you are definitely too weak and we are not cut from the same cloth", as
though enduring verbal and physical abuse is a sign of honour and hard work
rather than dysfunction.

~~~
s986s
Culture and economics are strange. Is hazing the result of demanding
discipline for high quality popular products? Or do popular products result in
hazing since supply is bigger than demand?

What we can definitely say is sushi has become american standard and that
without Japanese chefs, quality sushi would not always be available. Something
I think about is sports. Winning doesnt always involve fun, sometimes its
discipline, practicing endlessly and ensuring each member plays their part
properly instead of give excuses and act solo.

Is hazing the problem? Or is not seeing hazings place in the world? Do we hate
discipline ir just discipline at extremes? Why do we hit dogs to stop them
from pooping inside and give them treets for listening to a name? I think
there is grey area

~~~
kiiski
You hit dogs to stop them pooping inside? I don't think there's anything grey
about that...

~~~
s986s
How do you train dogs? How doglike are humans? At what point is explaination
not enough to discipline a person? Repetition becomes ignored? The appearence
of weakness gives room for rebellion?

You speak from a moral high ground but i really think these questions are
worth exploring

~~~
kiiski
> How do you train dogs?

By rewarding correct behaviour. Those questions have already been explored,
and contemporary experts pretty much agree that punishing, especially
physically beating, is counterproductive. Both for dogs and humans.

~~~
s986s
Well who am i to doubt? I have never attempted contemporary tactics nor seen
them in action. What i have seen is what has worked in the past because we are
still animals (including myself) despite all the incredible tools and
knowledge we have. Do you have use cases? I think this an incredible thing to
explore.

I can tell you think im insensitive. I appreciate you punishing my behaviour
with stern talking. Clearly even you see the benefit

------
59nadir
This article just comes across as pretentious, honestly. The part about being
beaten as some kind of teaching tool is only remotely accepted because it's
'another culture'.

It's all bullshit. It's fish on rice. Some people make really great fish on
rice and the majority of them happen to be Japanese, because that's where the
love of it comes from. Let's stop trying to make it seem like magic, though.
This is just sushi hipsterism.

~~~
hussong
I find your comment overly dismissive, let's apply this position to painting
for comparison:

"It's all bullshit. It's oil on canvas. Some people make really great oil on
canvas and the majority of them happen to be (white, I guess), because (I'm
not sure, probably eurocentrism). Let's stop trying to make it seem like
magic, though. This is just painting hipsterism."

That being said, I'm not a fan of sushi either and I find most of the fuss
people make about it quite superficial (much like people make a fuss about
yoga). Yet I'd still assume that it a form of art is at its core and that lot
of masters do practice it as an art.

~~~
smt88
Painting is a terrible comparison.

The eyes are far more subtle and sensitive to information, which is what
differentiates "good" paintings from "bad" paintings. You could change the
tiniest detail in a painting and totally change the emotions people feel about
it. Paintings can access the parts of our brain that process human faces and
deep memories.

Fish on rice, on the other hand, is a fairly simple combination of flavors.
Most of the flavor comes from the fish. Sure, the quality of the fish matters,
but I'd bet if you A/B tested "good" vs grocery-store sushi, people would
randomly choose one or the other as "better". To put it another way, I don't
believe in objective quality of sushi. I've had grocery store sushi that was
better than super-authentic, super-expensive sushi.

This all reminds me of people thinking wine is an art and has much more
subtlety than it has[1].

1\. [http://io9.gizmodo.com/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-heres-
why-49...](http://io9.gizmodo.com/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-heres-
why-496098276)

~~~
mazerackham
lol the amount of bias you have towards your own culture is astounding.

Taste and smell is a HUGELY sensitive skill. I don't doubt that changing the
"tiniest detail in a paint" could "totally change the emotions", but for
someone who doesn't really appreciate visual art nearly as much as food or
music, I could be as easily dismissive towards it as you were towards food.

To further counter your arguments, if you A/B tested some modern art in a
museum vs some art you bought in a walmart, and it was on the same medium
(same quality canvas, etc), people would randomly choose one or the other as
"better".

~~~
smt88
Neither sushi nor paintings are my culture.

------
robk
The racism is absolutely indefensible. But aren't the tattoo's a major turn
off for Japanese preconceptions? In America, it's the equivalent of your chef
having Maori face tattoos. Unusual to say the least. See:
[http://japandailypress.com/the-view-of-tattoos-in-
japanese-s...](http://japandailypress.com/the-view-of-tattoos-in-japanese-
society-295623/)

~~~
wutbrodo
> But aren't the tattoo's a major turn off for Japanese preconceptions? In
> America, it's the equivalent of your chef having Maori face tattoos.

Would this really be a problem in America? I've spent my whole life in America
and while seeing Maori face tattoos is unusual, it would hardly be a "turn-
off" or even remotely negative if I saw that my chef had them. Do you mind if
I ask what part of America you're in?

~~~
robk
Ok, maybe some other scarier face tattoos -
[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/12063417/Robber-
with-F-Cops-face-tattoo-proves-easy-to-track-down.html)

------
sgdesign
It's funny to see the level of fetishism around sushi. Here in Japan the
spectrum goes all the way from cheap 100-yen-a-plate sushi joints, to Jiro. So
it feels like sushi is a dish just like any other. In fact it always seemed to
me like Kaiseki cuisine is probably a lot harder to prepare.

And the "wash rice for three years" thing is just a leftover from the way
apprenticeship traditionally work here, whether it's for sushi or any other
craft. It's always seemed to me like a particularly inefficient way of
training someone and passing on your skills.

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anjc
This is a very whiny article, and I find it funny that by the end of an
article filled with the sentiment that racism in cooking is bad, that white
people are just as capable, he finishes off by effectively saying that white
people are better:

> [the white cook has] probably had to train a lot harder and knows a little
> bit more about what is actually going on then, let’s say, someone who can
> just land a sushi job just because he is Asian; in that sense, they
> literally bring nothing to the table besides being Asian.

On top of this, I find it troubling that diversity complaints and gender
quotas are now apparently being aimed at legal/loved/admired cultural
traditions. If Japanese sushi kitchens are mainly run by Japanese men...let
them at it. What harm is it to you or anyone? As a white male, I don't expect
that I'd be let become a geisha any time soon, and that seems fair enough to
me...?

~~~
golergka
He's not saying that white people are better.

He's saying that people who had overcome institutional racism are better.

I don't think that he was talking about a white sushi chef from Kansas who
have never been to Japan here.

~~~
mazerackham
I'm not saying the racism the author has experienced is right, it sucks, it's
wrong, and I actually know how he feels because I have had similar experiences
with race in my own life. But I have read A LOT of arguments on HN trying to
downplay or outright deny racism in tech, when that black engineering leader
at Twitter quit, and for the combative white people there, who seemed to
refuse to deny that racism existed here, but sympathize with this white guy
here, let me ask you this:

Why should sushi restaurants lower their standards and let this white guy into
their established restaurant, just for the sake of diversity? Sushi
restaurants are all for equality, but we would never want them to lower their
standards and serve lower quality food right? Also, if this white guy really
wants to get in, he needs to change his culture. That laziness, loudness, and
lack of respect for tradition will never get him anywhere in the sushi world.

~~~
golergka
So, let me get this straight: this comment is actually not about this topic,
but about another topic with some black guy from twitter, and you're using
this situation to look back at that previous post from before from another
angle?

It's an honest question, because I tried to understand what point are you
trying to make in context of this post, and failed.

------
Animats
A white female friend of mine has worked as a sushi chef. She'd already been
through a culinary academy and worked as a line chef at a high end restaurant.
She just saw sushi as an additional skill.

~~~
dennisnedry
I think the chef being interviewed is looking to become a "celebrity chef" by
being a "white sushi chef". Perception is a big part of the culinary scene in
the USA today.

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huac
_But here’s the thing: In many respects, I also recommend eating with a white
sushi chef. He’s probably had to train a lot harder and knows a little bit
more about what is actually going on then, let’s say, someone who can just
land a sushi job just because he is Asian; in that sense, they literally bring
nothing to the table besides being Asian._

yeah, after your story of how common it is to be beaten or forced to wash rice
and fish for years among sushi apprentices, it makes sense that asian sushi
chefs got their jobs 'literally' for being asian. oh also they're dumb

(additionally, it's ludicrous to use 'asian' as a stand-in here: any non-
japanese prospective apprentice would likely be treated with disdain)

~~~
mazerackham
+1, I was gonna post about this quote. Extremely short sighted and offensive.

> they literally bring nothing to the table besides being Asian

Thanks for qualifying any Asian person as being nothing more than their race.
I know it wasn't intentional, and the discrimination you face sucks, but
please think more deeply when you write about race, especially races other
than your own.

~~~
icebraining
You missed the "in that sense", which provides context to that statement.

~~~
mazerackham
I don't understand how "in that sense" qualifies the meaning differently. That
does "that sense" refer to exactly?

~~~
icebraining
By _that_ , I believe it's meant "particular qualities that make the candidate
better suited for a sushi job".

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dnautics
One might expect there to be fewer women sushi chefs - supposedly, hand
temperature is critical for creation and delivery of the perfect sushi, and
most women have colder hands than men. (there are of course women with very
warm hands and men with very cold hands)

------
known
Sushi by
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaijin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaijin) ?

