

What's broken with (western) education? - thinkactlive

I saw education appear on YC blog for industries to be disrupted - and while MOOCs have been awesome, it has got me thinking.<p>I&#x27;ve been rolling around two questions: what is the real purpose of education, or the education system? And then, what is broken with it?<p>---
The above is the question I posed in Reddit earlier tonight, generating an interesting conversation IMO (linked below). I have been pondering how we can _really_ take what we have seen with MOOCs and transform education.<p>I&#x27;m going to keep my views to myself for the moment. There&#x27;s a big opportunity to fix the system, but I was very privileged, having participated in experimental education programs that fostered STEM progressive and independent thinking. So I&#x27;ll be bias.<p>What&#x27;s HN&#x27;s views on education? Can SV transform education really?<p>http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;startups&#x2F;comments&#x2F;3734mh&#x2F;serious_whats_broken_with_western_education&#x2F;
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a3n
> I have been pondering how we can _really_ take what we have seen with MOOCs
> and transform education.

You're focusing on a solution, but you haven't said what problem that solution
solves, or whether that problem is what should be focused on.

~~~
thinkactlive
Agreed - that was just my ramblings in HN as I x-posted from Reddit. If you'll
see the original Reddit post, I'm interested in trying to define what the
purpose of education is, as well as clarify what others perceive it as being.

If we could all come to an agreement on its objectives, then a service /
system / product / whatever could be shaped towards this.

~~~
a3n
> If we could all come to an agreement on its objectives

"If we could all come to an agreement ..."

For something that touches everyone, and that people have widely different
views and motivations, starting from that goal will likely fail. The trick is
to come to some way of working that allows most people to benefit, or not be
overly harmed, and be able to move forward productively. Like marriage and
politics.

Some objectives that I've seen for education:

\- So that citizens can read and understand propaganda.

\- To prepare people for the 21st Century.

\- To prepare people to understand "the news," so that they can make sensible
choices in their days and in elections.

\- To give them marketable skills, for jobs.

\- To promote the state religion.

\- To promote a particular religion.

\- To promote "values." These values can be anything: tolerance, intolerance,
discrimination, inclusiveness, being on the "right" side of gay marriage, etc.

This is why education is so important at an early age, we can get to people
and shape their world view to the "right" way, so that they use Apple
computers, smoke cigarettes, view gay marriage the "correct" way (which way is
that again?), etc etc.

You will never get an agreement on objectives, we all hate each other too
much. (If you don't believe that last, consider that insulting politically
opposite people is about the last acceptable openly expressed prejudice, among
all sides.)

Better to figure out how to move forward with a huge difference of opinions,
and a huge variety of people. One way to do that is to ensure that there are
plenty of options in education, so that one powerful group is not overly
motivated to make education the same for everyone.

~~~
thinkactlive
Your comments have made a really big impact in how I was thinking about this
problem. Thank you.

In serving up options in education (to overt concentration of power) - how
would you consider a division? By subject matter? political ideals, all of the
above?

~~~
a3n
Most of us aren't going to be able to effectively oppose school districts,
teachers unions, governments and political parties. And mostly we don't need
to, partly because people mostly don't want to change (in much the same way
that pigs don't want to fly), but mostly because we can usually find a group
of like minded people interested in what we're interested in (which is quite
distinct from finding like minded people who want to force everyone to be like
us). The most attainable thing is to try to make the thing we want viable and
accessible to people who want it.

Which brings us back to your original comment on MOOCs. (Disclosure: I have
purposely still not read your linked Reddit thread.)

It looks like you believe MOOCs provide something worthwhile. Without asking
why, I tend to agree with you. But rather than try to convince everyone that
MOOCs are an essential part of some large strategy, work at a lower level,
trying to ensure that MOOCs remain viable and that they grow in maturity. Just
having MOOCs available to anyone who thinks that MOOCs will solve their
particular issue is great.

You might work on MOOC infrastructure, or from the educational side, or you
might just be a non-annoying advocate. :) Just making people aware of the
existence and utility of MOOCs would be a very positive thing.

I used to want to change the world, but I've come to see that the world is
already changing, constantly. Once in awhile someone comes along and tries to
determine the direction of the world for everyone. That always ends in
disaster.

Best if you try to make your little geographical or intellectual or moral
patch of the world a better place. Lots of better patches are likely to result
in a good world direction, whatever that is.

MOOC on, dude. :)

~~~
thinkactlive
Wise words.

In my attempt to remain impartial in my opening I think I've come across too
skeptical of the existing MOOCs (and by extension other tools). I really
appreciate what MOOCs have done for us, and become (so far). They're awesome -
and I'll always be an advocate. It's the first evolution in something special.
I'm just impatient and want to see something more profound come from it :P

Other then that, I think you're right. We do have a chance to create a bit of
a space aimed at bringing people together (for whatever they want to pursue).
And looking at keeping the barrier to entry low. Your views have been
invaluable! Thanks.

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lumberjack
There was nothing wrong with western education before governments decided
western citizens were too wealthy for public education and started
liberalizing, privatizing and cutting funding for education.

It's not surprising that now education is outrageously expensive and not of as
high a quality as it previously was.

No, SV won't "solve" education. At most it will come up with some
revolutionary degree mill concept.

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Rainymood
We can either blame (or improve) the following things:

(1) The children

(2) The parents

(3) The teachers

(4) The system

Supportive (and pushing) parents are HUGE in the educational development of a
child. Ever wonder why asian-american and asian kids in general usually have a
higher education? Because of their parents (and environment they grew up in).

It's just such a tricky system which is 'sick' at the root ..

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dba7dba
It's not the education. It's the parents. Of course not all parents.

------
Aheinemann
the traction of improving education is to make learning things easy.

This is dead wrong.

Learning is hard. Banging your head in desperation against a wall - repeatedly
- without hope for relief - hard. You cry in despair, doing one exercise after
the other. Until forever and ever - until - you get it.

And then you have achieved mastering the lesson. But only by working through
exercises, thinking, reasoning about possible solutions, talking to your
peers, taking a break, sweat and tears, failing, falling, getting yourself up
and going again - going the hard way.

There is no easy way - Think Bruce Lee training kind of hard way.

Easy is for dumb computers - you know the type. simple instruction set.
Execution of given command path - without thinking, no personality, no
ingenuity, no soul required.

The way they teach math in schools, art, history, humanities and STEM. You
just need to pass tests. Given command paths. To be executed flawlessly.

Understanding is not required, just obedience.

And that is what our education system is made for - obedient executors of
society - sheeple.

Depriving a child of the opportunity of tackling a hard problem is the worst
abuse you can do to a developing mind. By dumbing down the goals to achieve -
nobody uses math in their real life, you are not gonna need it. History is
gone - why bother. The meaning of a poem ? What would that be for ?

Another form of abuse is to abandon a failing student - certifying the failure
as if it were the students fault, taking all the chances from a young life
just because a test was not passed. Throwing away the hopes and opportunities
which might have been realized if only there had been someone to help along
the difficult path.

And that is something "turning education around" is not going to achieve - if
the only thing that is going to change is that we do no longer employ a
teacher per 30 students per hour but one recording of one teacher for all
mankind once for all eternity.

The chance of online education, of transforming the way we learn is about
community. Remember programming before stack overflow and google ? I do. I
made a living from solving problems which are just one google away nowadays.
(just glad that still nobody noticed yet... <eg>)

Learning should be fun, not easy - in a way like going on a raid with your
clan- kind of fun and hard. There should be pride and recognition by your
peers and families for achieving a goal - and the support to struggle with
learning.

Like the MMORG players do. Actually, the point in developing a successful game
is about balancing frustration and joy. That is what is needed for education.

But in most cases the failing of students is just due to the basics.

Having a meal when hungry basic.

Having security and safety in your life basic.

Having someone to confide in basic.

Having the opportunity to be allowed to sleep basic.

Having the feeling of being accepted, wanted, loved basic.

So how to transform education ?

Get the basics right.

Education is a basic human right and duty, not a personal investment into your
future which is only for the rich.

challenge the students.

Make them work together.

Support and accompany them on their journey.

Be proud of the students achievements.

It takes an entire village to raise kids. (said to be an african proverb...)

