
Dow falls 2,200 points, trading halted, as rate cut fails to calm markets - pythonswag
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/markets/dow-falls-2-200-points-trading-halted-rate-cut-fails-n1160246
======
dang
All: partisan flamewar is not welcome on this site, so please don't.

Pouring fuel on flames is an understandable but not a helpful stress response.
The idea here is to do better for as long as we can.

~~~
blunte
Pointing out extreme economic inequity is no more partisan than pointing out
scientifically measured global temperature increases.

Just because one side makes claims at odds with reality doesn't mean it's
partisan to point out the absurdity of those claims.

~~~
dang
You might have a point if people were simply pointing out facts instead of
slamming enemies and pouring on the snark.

Even then, though, years of this job have taught me that everyone
overestimates the overlap between their views and the pure truth, and that
this effect grows, I would even say exponentially, with the intensity of one's
commitment to a topic. To contribute well to a thoughtful discussion, each of
us needs to take this effect into account and find some way to compensate for
it.

~~~
cosmiccatnap
What if I told you those are the facts...

~~~
dang
I would say that's a category error. But I'm not sure I understand your
meaning, or you mine.

------
wmeredith
I don't think monetary policy is going to fix this. There is a pandemic and
the ostensible leader of the free world literally got on TV and said "I don't
take responsibility at all" about it. People are freaked the eff out.

~~~
TwoNineA
Let's not forget, he called the pandemic a "Democrat hoax".

~~~
Mountain_Skies
Both statements are intentionally taken out of context for cheap partisan
political points. Look in the mirror to see the problem and ask yourself what
it is you are trying to accomplish with this behavior.

~~~
cochne
For anyone curious, this is a more full context:

"One of my people came up to me and said, “Mr. President, they tried to beat
you on Russia, Russia, Russia.” That didn’t work out too well. They couldn’t
do it. They tried the impeachment hoax. That was not a perfect conversation.
They tried anything. They tried it over and over. They’d been doing it since
you got in. It’s all turning. They lost. It’s all turning. Think of it. Think
of it. And this is their new hoax. But we did something that’s been pretty
amazing. We have 15 people in this massive country and because of the fact
that we went early. We went early, we could have had a lot more than that.
We’re doing great. Our country is doing so great. We are so unified. We are so
unified. The Republican party has never ever been unified like it is now."

~~~
blunte
Sane people don't communicate this way. Even people who perform poorly when
publicly speaking (such as a GW Bush, who was famous for verbal stumbling)
don't begin to express themselves so chaotically with spoken words.

It's exceedingly difficult to understand this man, and I daresay that anyone
who claims to really understand what he's saying (meaning) is choosing to live
a fantasy.

~~~
phatfish
This is true of all disastrous leaders, the provide no real leadership apart
from publicly courting their acolytes.

The actual leadership they should be providing (giving clear direction to
those who will be acting on their wishes) is so lacking that all the decision
makers below them have to make up their own mind what the "leader" actually
wants. And so ensues chaos.

------
alexmingoia
I don't understand the reasoning behind halting trade after significant drops
in index value. If people significantly devalue a stock (or stocks), why would
halting trade change that? Halting trade could contribute to devaluation,
since it could encourage capital flight to exchanges that aren't halted or
have predictable trading hours. If I knew I might not be able to trade
tomorrow that's a new incentive to sell now and trade elsewhere.

~~~
Pfhreak
Halting only happens for fifteen minutes. It's meant to be a speed bump, an
opportunity to assess, "wait, do I really want to sell right now?" If the
market drops a lot, they'll halt for the day. Gives leaders a chance to make
adjustments.

~~~
alexmingoia
Are you referring to automated trading? How can someone sell without assessing
whether they want to sell? Isn't that a contradiction?

For example, if a grocery store is normally open, and I go there to buy
groceries only to found out they're closed... I still need groceries. I would
just be forced to wait until they're open or go get them from somewhere else.
With that reasoning, I would expect halting trades to encourage capital flight
to exchanges with liquidity and predictable operation. People prefer to shop
at grocery stores that have predictable hours and stocked shelves.

------
iso1210
I reckon the Dow (and the FTSE100) are down about 35% on a month ago.

After 9/11 they both fell about 10%.

In 2008 the Dow dropped about 40% in a month, and about 50% in 6 months.

~~~
r00fus
Just imagine - given the complete ineptitude at top levels - this may be just
the beginning. That's the scary part. Our "just in time" economy getting
destroyed by a supply chain disruption that doesn't respond to monetary policy
changes.

------
loopz
No real solutions until credible leadership takes charge.

For example: [https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-
coronavirus-2...](https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-
coronavirus-2019/media-resources/press-briefings)

~~~
WilsonPaige
And that would be?

Michael Pence?

Bernie Sanders?

Joe Biden? or, dare I say it,

Hilary Clinton?

~~~
loopz
This is a _small_ crisis. Real leadership required.

~~~
WilsonPaige
Someone who can roll back the pandemic? Do you know such a leader? Perhaps we
could resurrect King Canute:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Canute_and_the_tide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Canute_and_the_tide)

At least he could demonstrate to the great unwashed masses that sometimes even
excellent leadership is no cure.

~~~
loopz
When lost it's possible to emulate and learn from others, if one has an open
mind.

For example: [https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-
coronavirus-2...](https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-
coronavirus-2019/media-resources/press-briefings)

------
blunte
None of this really matters. What matters is when people (non-shareholders,
non <1%ers) pass that tipping point which they already live so close to.

They won't get paid because they'll be home sick, or told not to come in; so
they won't have "hours" on their timesheets. They don't have any safety net.

They will miss rent payments en masse. Small business property companies
(landlords) will suddenly have a cash flow problem and won't be able to make
their mortgage payments.

Enough little people will stop having any money and spending any money, and
all that will be left is the imaginary money in the stock market and the
quantitatively-eased-up banks - none of which does anything useful for the
little people.

This will create a very interesting situation that truly will threaten the
current way of things in certain skewed capitalist countries. What will come
out of this will surely be a lot more socialist (or rather, gains being
distributed more equally amongst the population instead of going to the top
0.1%). The top 0.1% will not suffer, because honestly what is the difference
between 100M net worth and 1B net worth.

~~~
Pfhreak
This is absolutely the key - unless we rapidly deploy a safety net we're going
to see hourly workers across many sectors lose their income. A sudden spike in
not being able to pay rents, buy food, take care of their children.

Unless we do something, we're going to see a rise in evictions, suicides, and
civil unrest.

------
wonderwonder
Strangely sending an autographed chart to a news organization celebrating a
quick pump of the stock market 30 minutes before close has not fixed all of
our problems.

There is no leadership on this issue. Health leaders are urging isolation
while at the same time elected leaders from a certain party are going on TV
and twitter and urging people to go out to restaurants and bars. The president
has been telling his supporters that there is no problem in the US while
thousands are dying in Europe. With no captain is anyone surprised the ship
appears to be drifting? Pence appears to be doing his best but he is clearly
handcuffed.

As the situations at airports are proving there is literally zero true
planning going on. No one figured out that if you announce a major travel ban
that people will come flooding home from virus hot spots. Thousands of people
jammed together before being released back into the US.

Soon companies are going to be forced to start massive layoffs just to
survive, especially the travel and retail industries. We are then going to
have tens of thousands of our lowest paid and least resource secure people
suddenly without jobs. The bills will continue though. The government though
appears to show no regard for individuals and is instead focused only on stock
market numbers. Not to mention many of these same people suddenly have kids at
home with the schools closed.

We need to a massive stimulus for individuals, put a moratorium on mortgage
and car payments, put cash in peoples hands or this is going to get out of
hand fast. Due to our so called "rugged individualism" in the US, we have
lines around the corner at gun stores as people fantasize about gunning down
those rendered desperate from what is going on while our European neighbors
are pitching in to help each other.

~~~
WilsonPaige
wonderwonder says> _" There is no leadership on this issue."_

There is an abundance of leadership: however, in many instances the leadership
is unnecessary and/or ineffectual. One underlying problem is that those of us
brought up as political science majors think they should, indeed, _must_ do
something, anything! Better that they wait, watch, proceed with caution and
steer within their legal limits.

wonderwonder says> _" Health leaders are urging isolation while at the same
time elected leaders from a certain party are going on TV and twitter and
urging people to go out to restaurants and bars."_

Here you paint with a broad brush, smearing all Republicans because of the
statements/actions of a handful. Shame, shame. And if those few truly believe
that the situation is not as bad as you believe, well then, what would you do?
Incarcerate them? Is it not better to merely correct or chastise those who are
wrong rather than use them as an instrument to slur millions of innocent
people?

wonderwonder says> _" thousands are dying in Europe"_.

It is about one and one half thousand dead right now. More will die of course.
"Thousands"? Why exaggerate so? The situation is bad, by why alarm when alarm
does no good, indeed harms?

wonderwonder says> _" With no captain is anyone surprised the ship appears to
be drifting? Pence appears to be doing his best but he is clearly
handcuffed._.

Vague, poetic, and simply _wrong_. All those who know what to do are doing it
ASAP. Pence is handcuffed because he is the vice president and has no assigned
tasks other than what the President allows. He's a backup drive for the
President: if the President dies Pence will be plugged in and powered up.
Until then he'd be foolish to take a pro-active role.

wonderwonder says> _" there is literally zero true planning going on. "_.

Everybody who _can_ plan is planning. There is likely _too much_ planning and
not enough paying attention to what is in front of us. You are not privy to
the planning (probably for good reason - people will take advantage of such
situations to make themselves rich or even, dare I say, gain some obscure
political advantage!-). "*

I could go on but I've made my point. Better to condense your political views
into a post 1/5 the length, omitting the misleading and/or false parts. Sadly,
when i reread the post, I find little that does not mislead. You are clearly
literate; you can pen a sentence well; you can do much better.

~~~
wonderwonder
Not sure where I smeared all Republicans. I clearly stated 'elected leaders
from a certain party'. Rep. Devin Nunes, Kevin Stitt of Oklahoma, David Clarke
(whatever he is), all are encouraging people to go out. This is a fact. I did
not say all or even most; but to dispute this makes no sense. Please don't put
words in my mouth.

As of this moment, ~1,800 known deaths in Europe. My apologies for overstating
by 10% and causing panic, end of day tomorrow I will be accurate.

Edit: we have now unfortunately reached over 2,000 a couple hours after this
post.

I'm not really sure what you mean about the majority of your other points
regarding planning, leadership and too much planning. Bad planning and poor,
ill defined leadership is not exactly a major win over no leadership and no
planning.

Either way, I wish you and yours the best during the weeks / months to come.

