
Bus Lane Blocked, He Trained His Computer to Catch Scofflaws - sethbannon
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/03/15/nyregion/bike-lane-blocked-new-york.html
======
Bellspringsteen
Hello HN,

I wrote a longer post here, [https://hackernoon.com/cameras-as-traffic-
cops-99a85513e1e0](https://hackernoon.com/cameras-as-traffic-
cops-99a85513e1e0)

I also called in to Ask the Mayor this morning to discuss. He was not happy

[https://soundcloud.com/alex-bell-103/askthemayor-bill-
deblas...](https://soundcloud.com/alex-bell-103/askthemayor-bill-deblasio-on-
blocked-bus-stops-and-bike-lanes)

~~~
apeace
Great research, I wish you luck!

One of the things the mayor said interested me:

> If someone's blocking [a bike lane] for thirty seconds while they get their
> groceries or drop their kid off, I don't think they should get a ticket for
> that.

Do you agree? And do you have any data on how much of the blocking going on is
A) the "thirty second dropoff", B) driving in the lane, and C) stopping and
parking for any period of time?

Lastly, I'll add that as a walker in NYC (no car, no bike), I have no fear of
being struck by cars. I fear bikes. I rarely see bikes obey traffic laws at
all, and have frequently come 1-2 feed away from being side-swiped while a
bicycle blows through a red light. Since you're so passionate about this I'm
sure you follow traffic laws, but maybe you'll be inspired to take a look at
bike behavior too!

~~~
tucosan
Bikelanes are for cyclists. Blocking them even for 30 seconds endangers the
cyclists, how will have to merge into car traffic. That your mayor does not
understand this, is testament to his ignorance of the issue.

~~~
StudentStuff
Blocking a bike lane is potentially causing severe injury to a bicyclist, as
now your car is blocking their path and they could end up smashing into your
illicitly parked vehicle.

I've had friends end up going through the rear windshields of cars, getting
doored, etc here in Seattle, so even though I don't bike, I make a point to go
and harass people illegally parked in bike lanes (which is really common north
of the ship canal).

What if a bike can't stop in time coming down the hill? They're going to
likely get horribly injured due to your illegal parking job. The bike lane is
for bikes exclusively, even in the suburbs.

~~~
briandear
Failure to control speed is a moving violation and should be ticketed
appropriately. What if a person is crossing the street and, according to you,
a bike would be potentially unable to stop?

Any vehicle on the road has a legal obligation to operate their vehicle safely
and lawfully — that means a bike ought never be unable to stop in time.

Some person could get horribly injured due to a bicyclist failing to control
speed.

~~~
metilda
Coming down a hill at 20Mph in a bike lane that should be at least partially
clear on a wet day (very common in Seattle) is perfectly legal. Running into a
large unexpected object in the path is hardly the cyclists fault.

~~~
foobarian
I tried telling that to the insurance agency when I rear-ended a car that
suddenly stopped in front of me. It didn't work.

~~~
ytoi
Someone suddenly stopping shouldn't be unexpected, nor is it necessarily
against the rules of the road. Hacker News is fun and all but consistently
gets beaten by 15 seconds of googling e.g.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/28/nyregion/double-
parking-i...](https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/28/nyregion/double-parking-is-
exception-on-liability-in-rear-end-crashes-judge-says.html)

~~~
daveFNbuck
If you can't see whether there's a large object in your path within time to
stop, you're going too fast. There could be a fallen or slow bicyclist in the
lane.

~~~
interfixus
This is so obviously, indisputably true. How can anyone be downvoting?

~~~
hedora
You’ve clearly never been going downhill on a bike and had someone illegally
stop their car or pull out in front of you. Bikes take more distance to stop
than cars.

~~~
interfixus
You've clearly never considered the necessity of matching your speed to
conditions and surroundings and whatever surprises they may hold.

I have. For close on fourty years of much cycling and driving. Which may be a
contributing factor in my never having suffered an accident.

~~~
pteredactyl
No, it's always their fault. /s

------
jandrese
So the solution is simple: Create a dedicated package delivery/cab
pickup/dropoff lane for those vehicle that clearly need to stop frequently but
for short times. /s

Maybe try to reclaim some of the street parking spots by making them 5-10
minute stop only. Given the ratio of street parking to population that's
probably not enough. Enforcement would be difficult too. It seems the crux of
the issue is that there are vehicles that need to make short stops at
establishments and cant afford to spend an hour finding a legitimate parking
spot each time. The only reasonable option now is to park illegally and try to
be quicker than the cops.

~~~
Bellspringsteen
Maybe. But instead of dedicated points. Why not just have a market set the
price of parking. So no free parking. And the price of parking is set so that
we are at 75% capacity by day/hour or something like that. So that way there
are always spots available and everyone pays their due.

~~~
dahdum
Downside of this strategy is now you have another variable delivery cost that
will be passed onto all consumers in the area.

~~~
oftenwrong
If the person receiving the delivery has to bear the delivery cost, instead of
transferring it onto bikers, drivers, bus riders in the form of obstructed
streets, I would call that an upside.

------
iooi
> The blocking of bus and bike lanes has become a sore spot among
> transportation advocates who believe the city’s enforcement efforts are
> inadequate.

As a native, this is the crux of the issue. Traffic enforcement in NYC
(specifically, Manhattan) is atrocious. So many cars run red lights, make
illegal turns, block the sidewalk, stand illegally, etc. It's self-
perpetuating, the more people see others get away with these infractions, the
more likely they are to do it themselves.

They really have to start fining people for every single infraction,
_especially_ the minor ones, to change the horrible car culture in the city.

~~~
Bellspringsteen
True. But do we want humans doing the enforcement? How many humans would you
need? What about night? What about equality of enforcement?

I touch on some of the issues [https://hackernoon.com/cameras-as-traffic-
cops-99a85513e1e0](https://hackernoon.com/cameras-as-traffic-
cops-99a85513e1e0) I am unsure.

~~~
UncleEntity
> But do we want humans doing the enforcement?

I think as a general rule we always want humans doing the enforcement,
Confrontation Clause and all that.

Plus anything that brings us closer to The Total Surveillance State I'm
generally against.

~~~
askvictor
If there is video evidence of the offence that can be brought to court, is
this a concern for you?

If there is a chronic disregard for particular laws due to the fact they
cannot be enforced on a large scale by humans, then what do you propose as a
solution if we're discarding video surveillance?

~~~
UncleEntity
> If there is a chronic disregard for particular laws due to the fact they
> cannot be enforced on a large scale by humans, then what do you propose as a
> solution if we're discarding video surveillance?

I see your point... cameras everywhere to catch all the non-violent drug
offenders then?

------
WhompingWindows
While the attempt to hold public and/or private vehicles accountable for these
violations is laudable, I question how these problems truly get fixed. NYC is
very densely populated, it has a lot of commercial transit, tourists, bikes,
scooters, j-walkers, busses, Ubers, taxis, and getting these all to play
nicely on the same road network seems beyond the current infrastructure and
enforcement scheme. Obviously, many of the observed cases should be penalized,
but some 100k annual violations in a city of over 10 million people, that's a
drop in the bucket of violations.

In the long run, it seems to me that enforcement is not the solution as much
as infrastructure, technology, and culture. Why not make major avenues/streets
one-way and convert half the street into bike lanes, then remove bike lanes
from other streets which are too narrow to allow cars/bikes/busses to move
together well? Or, improve the subway infrastructure so that surface transit
is less appealing by comparison. Or, create a system where we don't have
public storage of privately owned vehicles in parking spots. How about the
issue of vehicles that have 4 seats on average, but have <2 people in them in
typical use. Buses are cheaper than trains to implement, however I've seen
many massive buses often run completely empty, thus their capacity factor is
definitely closer to 50% than the 100% that public transit afficionados would
love to believe. Maybe we need more granularity in offering the right bus for
the right job, which would be more energy and space efficient as well.

Given all these potential solutions, it remains to the rancorous and slow-
moving world of representative government to play a massive role in these
solutions. I can't foresee the problem getting substantially better any time
soon via politics, but rather culture/technology will be a more nimble answer.

~~~
mjevans
The actual solution is to separate the layers.

Top: Human scale movement (pedestrians, non-motorized and 'very' small motor
(1 HP per human mass being moved) personal transport devices (think wheel
chairs and maybe slow-speed scooters/electrically assisted bikes).

Mid (down): delivery / private vehicle / emergency services.

Lower: Bulk public transit (subways and the like).

While we're at it, put parks and recreation areas in the middle of the human
level of traffic. Maybe storefronts along the sides.

~~~
bobthepanda
The problem is that actually grade-separating the layers is so ridiculously
expensive that we don't do it. And not for lack of trying - the world is full
of abandoned skywalk networks and mind-bogglingly expensive underground
highway boondoggles.

~~~
mjevans
Yeah, you pretty much can't do this with unions; has to be automated robots to
the Nth degree so that your only real costs are energy, time, and the
environment.

------
aarmenante
Where are taxis, ride-sharing vehicles, and delivery trucks supposed to stop?
I get frustrated when I ride my bike to work and the bike lanes are blocked,
but I have always just assumed that will be the case when riding in a
commercially dense area.

This is probably rarely the case, but when cops are instigating something (I'm
sure 90% of the time they are just getting coffee) and need to park their car,
are they supposed to circle the block, or block traffic?

US cities are unfortunately optimized for cars and trucks. It's how stores get
resupplied and people get dropped off when not near public transportation.

I'm not trying to stir-the-pot, but I find there is a mildly militant tone to
biking activism that makes me not take it very seriously. I'm sure I'll get
downvoted for this ha.

After you have had to sit through critical mass
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mass_(cycling)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mass_\(cycling\)))
for the 10th time when you are trying to get home from work or get your car
door kicked when trying to make a right turn in the city you develop a
visceral reaction to news about cycling outrage.

I would love to be able to get around NYC on a bike without having to fear
death, but I don't think software engineers writing ticketing software that
targets delivery truck drivers is the best solution. Better civic planning is.

~~~
notatoad
>Where are taxis, ride-sharing vehicles, and delivery trucks supposed to stop?

taxis, ride-sharing vehicles, and delivery trucks should stop in the car lane.
if that's not acceptable, roads should be designed with a designated stopping
lane. The majority of the lanes on the road are already dedicated to private
motor vehicles, and there's only one bus or bike lane. They shouldn't block a
different (and more efficient) mode of transportation that has less road space
dedicated to it when they want to stop.

If there isn't a bus lane or bike lane, that's what they do. Why does it
suddenly becomes unacceptable to block a private vehicle lane just because
there is a bus lane you could block instead?

~~~
djrogers
Most of these bus and bike lanes were ‘built’ by taking away road shoulder, on
street parking, and loading zones. with the way the street is currently laid
out in for example the video in the article, there is absolutely zero space
for vehicles to stop.

Just because a city repaints the lanes doesn’t magically add extra pavement,
and ignoring the needs of motorists results in them ignoring the painted
lines.

------
ayemiller
The bizarre looking thing that he is riding-- [https://gearjunkie.com/small-
urban-bike-design-alex-bell](https://gearjunkie.com/small-urban-bike-design-
alex-bell)

~~~
CydeWeys
Wow, he figured out how to miniaturize a penny-farthing and add gearing to
boot.

I want to try that. I doubt I'd replace my road bike, but I want to know what
that's like to ride.

------
liminal
The one thing I've seen help with this problem is to physically separate the
bicycle lane from the other traffic. A series of bollards are cheap to bolt to
the road or with more effort a grade separation can be made.

~~~
cataphract
Bollards in the middle of the road are dangerous. The solution is to segregate
the bike lane by putting it on the right of the parked cars, next to the
pedestrians. This means that cyclists will cross together with the pedestrians
and that left turns require two lights, but these can be programmed so that
the waiting time is minimized (OTOH, cyclists have no lights for turning
right).

------
lopmotr
How is enforcement so totally lacking? Why do they need to use police for it?
Where I live, the police don't do that, the city council's parking wardens see
a packed car blocking a lane and call a tow truck to remove it. So all the bus
lanes and clearways (temporary no parking lanes) are always free when needed.
Maybe if they towed a few UPS trucks, they'd send a message to the others.

------
makecheck
People seem to prefer using the “main” streets and/or the exact street that
leads to their destination, even when parallel roads would work just as well.

For instance, I would often see cyclists causing major headaches by insisting
on using space on busy roads (that lacked a clear lane) for miles, when there
were _dozens_ of residential side streets that ran 90% of the same way and
were deserted. In those situations, the better solution is to just _not use
the congested road_ and pick another one that is basically going the same way.

Similarly, buses run on predictable schedules and traffic is regularly
frustrated sitting behind stopping buses when they _could_ simply pick a
parallel road where the bus doesn’t run at all.

In a downtown scenario, maybe roads should be entirely reclassified to ensure
separation. Maybe every 3 blocks is a street that has two lanes exclusively
for cyclists, and then cyclists are banned from the other blocks that have
only car lanes? Maybe deliveries and other stops should only be allowed on one
of the 4 “sides” of a city block, with illegal stops on the other sides?

------
madhadron
How about putting armored plows on the front of the buses and letting them
shove whatever is parked in their way in the buslanes out of the way?
Preferable left angled plows so it blocks general traffic instead of the
sidewalk.

~~~
Bellspringsteen
Seems a little violent.

~~~
r00fus
Only if you see cars as the dominant lifeform on this planet (a la
Transformers).

Cars don't have a right to loiter on public roadways.

------
Nilef
I’ve been working on a startup to solve this problem for a few months now -
There’s a lot of difficult issues to work through in this space, especially
for non-grid system cities and solving problems around getting data off of
cameras.

I’m in the UK - Give me a shout if you’re interested in working on this with
me, it’s a big piece of work to chew on! Email is in my profile

------
milliams
It looks the like the author of the code has written about it at
[https://medium.com/@alex.morgan.bell/drivers-are-breaking-
th...](https://medium.com/@alex.morgan.bell/drivers-are-breaking-the-law-
slowing-commutes-and-endangering-lives-i-can-prove-it-and-fix-it-9fe1f9a101b9)
as well

------
askvictor
In Melbourne AU, we have these issues too (actually, more cars driving in Bus
lanes), that police don't seem to bother enforcing. However, I see much more
frequently other traffic violations that would benefit from a similar analysis
on a large scale - two examples that come to mind are tailgating, and cars
stopped in the middle of an intersection on a red light blocking cross traffic
from going through. Both cases are so prevalent that even some (human)
enforcement action wouldn't make a dint at this stage - it's become a cultural
issue I suspect (probably due to lack of enforcement over the years as the
roads get more congested and people more stressed/hurried).

I get the fears of big brother and all that, but how do you solve these kinds
of problems without mass automated surveillance?

------
tomohawk
And this is supposed to convince people that living in a dense urban
environment where there's not even enough space to meet the basic
transportation needs is somehow desirable? Seems like much more of a dystopia
than a utopia.

~~~
rublev
The concrete jungle is only a dystopia to those who are constantly in a
whirlwind of inconvenience and don't have enough money to throw at it.

If you're rich you cover the inconveniences with nice condos, taking cabs, and
eating out.

------
rripken
Seems like bus drivers need to be able to issue parking tickets for blocking
bus lanes. Maybe add a camera to the bus that is only used when a car is
actually found blocking the bus lane and have the images lead to tickets.

------
jackconnor
Great article, and really, really good work with analyzing all that video.
Those blockage rates, 40% & 55% of the time, are insane, I hope they listen to
start working on a fix, because the current situation is ridiculous.

------
Tepix
Neat hack. However: Total video surveillance as the solution? No thanks!

How about:

a) adding the cameras to the buses and storing only images of offending
vehicles

b) creating parking spaces dedicated to short term parking up to, say, 3
minutes or so

------
Jach
Maybe bikes can just ride over cars and the police can decide to not enforce
that in addition to not enforcing the lane blockages. People would probably
stop parking there pretty quick.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33Hkyb9c9NQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33Hkyb9c9NQ)

Of course if you/the bike can't make such a jump... well I already get annoyed
by bikes on the road which can't reach the road's speed limit so I'll shut up
here.

~~~
justherefortart
Speed limits are a ceiling not a floor.

~~~
Jach
And yet the average speed of a well-flowing road will invariably be near the
speed limit. If your mode of locomotion can't reach the road's ceiling, it
shouldn't be on that road.

~~~
lopmotr
Only if you can afford to build an extra slow road/lane for them. In the real
world, you often can't. In that case, no, slow vehicles should be on that
road. They're still people trying to get somewhere just like everyone else.
Sometimes they're trucks going uphill - you can't exclude trucks from entire
towns. The rule in most places are to pull over from time to time to let
following vehicles pass.

------
pteredactyl
I'm a cyclist. But get a kick out of the high number of sanctimonious cyclists
out there. They feel since they're on the road they're entitled to all of it.

Of course it's not ideal when a car is parked in the bicycle lane, but you can
signal and go around it, as other cars do.

------
liminal
This is a cultural issue. I'm new to New York and was immediately surprised by
how little drivers care where they leave their cars. Traffic here moves very
slowly and a lot of it seems due to lanes being blocked by unattended
vehicles. I wonder if this is an American attitude, like the way Americans
seem to care much less about recycling trash.

~~~
lazerpants
It's not an American thing, it's mostly just an NYC, and maybe Boston, Philly,
DC thing.

The parking/driving thing, not the recycling one.

~~~
electricslpnsld
Happens on the west coast too, particularly in the Bay Area cities.

~~~
djrogers
Maybe happens to a small degree in San Franscisco proper, but in all my visits
to the city I’ve never seen anyone parked in the bus lanes on Market for
example.

As for the rest of the Bay Area, I skinny you’d find anything close to a tithe
of NYCs illegally parked and stopped vehicles. In my town you’d find as close
to zero as makes no difference, as would be the case in most others I spend
time in.

------
rconti
Seems like a perfect use for the SF solution of having ANPR on busses. I don't
love the cameras but it seems like a better answer than fixed cameras
everywhere; it can be setup to only scan plates when there is a problem,
instead of surveilling an entire area 24x7.

------
intrasight
I think it's a mistake to conflate bike and bus lanes in urban transportation
analysis. It should not be possible for any vehicle to enter let alone park in
a bike lane. As for bus lanes, the bus authority police should be empowered to
address this.

~~~
jmkb
Many of the bike lanes in NYC are nothing but a stripe of paint along the side
of a single-lane road, whose curbs are lined with parked cars. Cars double-
parking for loading, etc will inevitably either block the bike lane or block
the auto lane, causing cars to swerve into the bike lane.

eg,
[https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7784195,-73.9470116,3a,75y,2...](https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7784195,-73.9470116,3a,75y,295.87h,74.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sb972S4CcXVvS0TdLQo1A8g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e3)

~~~
intrasight
Yes I know. But as we see in many European cities, it doesn't have to be that
way.

~~~
jmkb
The obvious solution is to remove the on-street car parking on at least one
side of any street that hosts a bike lane, and use the space for a separated
bike route with a protective barrier. Unfortunately I doubt it's politically
feasible at this time. There's plenty of resistance to bike lanes already;
reducing the street parking would be seen as an undue hardship on the middle
class.

I do feel things will change over time though -- I know several New Yorkers
who used to have cars but now, in the age of car/bike sharing and app-enabled
car services, no longer own one.

------
post_break
I need this software at home! I have a camera watching parking spots and I'd
love to know if a spot is open before heading home from work or even better,
if I hit a geo fence just before I got home so I knew which spots were open.

------
jopsen
You can't fix violations at this rate with enforcement...

You're better of re-thinking the system so it's not violated as much. Putting
up a barrier, and making wide pits that only busses can cross..

------
u801e
I wonder if the problem could be solved if the bus lane or bike lane was in
the middle between two general traffic lanes, rather than off to the side
(where people tend to idle or park).

~~~
gr3yh47
in that case wouldnt the bus would necessarily need to cross traffic to get to
and from a stop? and traffic would have to cross the bus lane to make turns?

~~~
lgregg
It's around. [https://makewealthhistory.org/2017/09/04/transport-
innovatio...](https://makewealthhistory.org/2017/09/04/transport-innovation-
of-the-week-bus-rapid-transit/)

------
atomical
Why not start recording and uploading pics and video of the individual
employees instead of just posting pictures of their vehicle?

~~~
jandrese
If you are a UPS driver in NYC what are your other options?

This is a systemic issue, not some "bad apples". You won't fix it by naming
and shaming the pawns.

~~~
sjburt
In many cities, UPS tells its drivers to park illegally and then pays the
resulting tickets in bulk. It's a cost of doing business for them. This cost
is limited by the number of parking enforcement vehicles.

If the cost were increased enough (perhaps by enforcing the law more
aggressively), UPS might choose a different strategy such as telling its
drivers to park legally and walk further.

~~~
jandrese
You're basically asking the drivers to perform a miracle every time they
deliver a package. Anybody who lasts more than a week would qualify for
Catholic sainthood.

Saint Jim, patron saint of on-street parking.

~~~
jopsen
Maybe delivery services should be more expensive?

You are subsidizing private enterprise by tolerating organized violation of
traffic laws.

If you want delivery companies to be allowed to behave this way, then make a
law. It's perfectly reasonable for a municipality to except certified delivery
companies from some traffic rules...

~~~
jandrese
How much surcharge should you expect for the ability to perform a verifiable
miracle on demand?

An actual workable solution would be to simply not allow deliveries to a
building unless it has an available commercial delivery spot. That may make
some businesses unhappy however. Residents may be unhappy to see entire
sections of the city suddenly have no walkup businesses as well.

~~~
jopsen
Having a driver and a delivery guy who steps out with the packages could also
work...

Point is, you can change prices, stop offering the service, or fix the law.

But allowing businesses to ignore the law is not a good idea. Change the law
instead, if that's what you want.

------
wemdyjreichert
I don't want to ride a bike everywhere I go. I don't want to have to shower
and change a suit between meetings. I want to sit in the comfy, climate-
controlled cushions of my car and relax. Biking activism will not change that.
Creating bike and bus lanes in a city as dense as NYC is not a solution.
Subways are faster, carry more people, and don't block existing traffic like
bike and bus lanes.

~~~
mikepurvis
The great thing, though, is that you don't have to _personally use_ the
dedicated bus and bike infrastructure in order to benefit from it. By making
these modes more comfortable and efficient, others (like those who don't need
to wear to suits to meetings) are able to choose them, getting their cars off
the road and leaving more room for yours.

------
RcouF1uZ4gsC
Maybe we should also train a computer that can catch scofflaw bicyclists that
ignore stop signs and red lights.

[http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/dot_bikesmart_broc...](http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/dot_bikesmart_brochure.pdf)

~~~
Bellspringsteen
You are right that the bicycle community does itself no favors with some of
our behavior. We are working on it. I think the bigger issue I raised was
about the Busses.

~~~
rsync
"We are working on it."

I am not sure there is anything that can be worked on ...

As a driver who lives in a very popular biking environment (and who has given
some careful thought to the issues _and_ has taken his own turns being a
biker) I am increasingly convinced that riding a bike and driving a car on the
same roads are fundamentally antagonistic behaviors.

I find that unfortunate, but I think it might be the case.

~~~
razorunreal
If that's true, then in Manhattan the cars should go. Even as a pedestrian it
is frustrating to wait for cars at the end of every short block. I'm not sure
how gridlock is helping anyone, they should just ban anything that isn't
commercial or a taxi from most of the city. If you want to live in Manhattan
and own a car, fine, just don't bring it in.

------
vzaliva
It is not often one sees NY Times linking to Github :)

------
HIPisTheAnswer
Any behavior which damages the physical integrity of others is criminal. Thus,
burning fuel without everyone else's permission is a crime.

------
jonjojr
The real life Sheldon Cooper. Block my walk path, i'll sue, if I lose, i'll
build a robot to destroy you all.

