
Microsoft unveils Windows 10 system with Start Menu - kostyk
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-29431412
======
Someone1234
Am I the only one seriously underwhelmed?

Everyone else is talking about the Start Menu and name. That's all fun and
good but it isn't very substantive. The only actual feature which I've read
about is Virtual Desktops (which was already obtainable via the "Desktops"
TechNet download[0]).

If those are all the improvements Microsoft has to talk about then frankly
what the heck have they been doing for the past several years? Windows 8 for
all of its problems was a substantial change that likely took a lot of work.
The difference between 8.1 and "10" is far from substantive.

[0][http://technet.microsoft.com/en-
us/sysinternals/cc817881.asp...](http://technet.microsoft.com/en-
us/sysinternals/cc817881.aspx)

~~~
alyx
Is running the same OS across all device factors not a big enough
accomplishment?

Develop a single application, that relies on the same API set and runs across,

PC, Phone, XBOX, Micro... aka Desktop, Mobile, TV, Everything Else...

I would say that's pretty impressive if they pull it off, considering how many
customers and scenarios that will span.

[1]
[http://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/2014/09/30/universal-w...](http://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/2014/09/30/universal-
windows-apps-get-better-with-windows-10/)

~~~
jvagner
Microsoft was always the continuity OS company. The fact that they need a
concerted effort to get closer to what Apple has maintained is ridiculous.
That they had separate and incompatible desktop, gaming, tablet and phone OSes
is a monstrous error that puts them behind, again, for years.

~~~
zastrowm
I don't understand the Apple comparison. Do iOS apps run on OS-X?

The fact that they're consolidating the console, desktop, and tablet/phone OSs
is the impressive accomplishment, not the phone/tablet consolidation.

As for consoles, a few years ago, consoles were a whole different beast from
what they are now, so it wouldn't have made much sense to have the OS the
same.

~~~
bruceboughton
No but iOS shares a lot of code and APIs with OS X, which simplifies Apple's
development.

Apple understands that different devices need different UIs but can share code
and core APIs.

Microsoft thinks that different devices should have the same UI but hasn't
previously managed to share code and APIs.

------
dvcc
I just don't understand _anything_ that Microsoft seems to be doing lately.

Random version numbers, a UI full of mismatched colors and a phone OS that has
gone so far from its roots its just confusing. I mean sure they seem to be
getting more dev friendly, but my god their end products are getting so far
off track.

~~~
pavlov
The random version numbers thing is more than 20 years old.

The first version of Windows NT was numbered 3.1, and since then we've had:
3.5, 4.0, 2000, XP, Vista, 7, 8, 10

So "7" and "8" were anomalies in that they actually matched the indices in
this sequence.

~~~
laumars
NT 3.1 made sense because it was a compliment to Windows 3.x.

Windows 2000 kind of makes sense too, since we had Windows 95 and 98. Or at
least 2000 would have made sense if ME didn't exist.

I always thought XP was an odd name though, but 10 is definitely the worst
thus far because, rightly or wrongly, people have certain expectations with
version _numbering_ and Windows 10 break that (just look at how damning people
were towards KDE because they had high exceptions from version 4.0 despite
developers repeatedly warning users that it was still a beta and that the
version number wasn't a statement about KDE's stability)

~~~
dragonwriter
> NT 3.1 made sense because it was a compliment to Windows 3.x.

NT 3.1 was the rename of OS/2 NT after MS and IBM couldn't agree on what to do
with OS/2\. But it was a parallel release to the Windows 3.1.

> Windows 2000 kind of makes sense too, since we had Windows 95 and 98. Or at
> least 2000 would have made sense if ME didn't exist.

Me was the DOS-based successor to the Win 3.1 -> Win 98 SE line, 2000 was the
NT-based successor to the Win NT 3.1 -> Win NT 4.0 line.

Since 2000 wasn't a successor to 95/98, it can't really make sense because of
them -- to the extent that the name indicates its the next in that line, that
illustrates why it doesn't make sense rather than indicates that it does
(though, IIRC, that _was_ part of the intent -- 2000 did support more of the
consumer features than NT 4.0 did and there was some initial indication that
MS hoped that 2000 would be the convergence OS that XP became, and that Me was
a result of MS realizing belated that that wouldn't work and that they needed
a new consumer OS as a stopgap before the convergence OS landed.)

~~~
laumars
You're arguing against my points while going on to reiterate exactly what I
posted - only less succinctly (I assumed it wasn't worth explaining the basics
of each Windows release given that everyone on this forum should already be
well versed on that subject).

And FYI, ME (nor 9x) weren't DOS-based. They used DOS bootloaders, but their
drivers bypassed DOS entirely. I'm not sure whether 3.x did the same
(architecturally I think it did, but OS/2 could also run Win 3.x inside a DOS
emulator)

~~~
dragonwriter
Pre-95, the (non-NT) windows line was a separate add-on to DOS, from 95 the
ttwo were bundled into one product, but while some Windows facilities may have
bypassed DOS, there was DOS running underneath, and you could boot directly to
DO without the Windows environment.

~~~
laumars
Which again, describes a bootloader. Windows wasn't a DOS application.
DirectX, Win32, etc weren't DOS libraries. Windows and DOS had separate sound
drivers, graphics drivers, and so on and so forth.

DOS to Windows 9x was like the read only kernel environment, initramfs, in
Linux. Except that DOS is obviously a fully functioning interactive
environment in itself (actually, initramfs might be too. I think you can get a
Bourne Shell prompt if it goes tits-up)

While it's true that Windows 1 and 2 were literally just front ends to DOS
(Windows applications would often call DOS functions) Windows 3.x was an OS in
it's own right (albeit still heavily dependant on DOS) and Windows 95+
basically just kept DOS about as a bootloader and for DOS compatibility (games
etc)

So it wasn't just " _some Windows facilities_ " in Win95 that bypassed DOS; it
was every single Windows application (it had it's own binary executable
format, it's own kernel, it's own ABIs and APIs, drivers, memory management,
etc.

But it's fun to bash Windows 9x as being "DOS-based" because it's derogatory
and, let's be honest, there wasn't a whole lot right with that whole lineage
of Windows.

------
eyeareque
So the big headline about Microsoft's new OS is that it has a start menu.
Really?

~~~
readerrrr
Yes, it is a very important feature for almost all types of users, and most
are lost without it.

------
jstalin
Hopefully this will also include the re-introduction of the "hotdog stand"
color scheme.

~~~
Sanddancer
I threw one together for seven that almost works for eight as well over at
[http://www.h3m3.com/hot-dog-
stand/HotDogStand.themepack?attr...](http://www.h3m3.com/hot-dog-
stand/HotDogStand.themepack?attredirects=0&d=1) . Hopefully, it should work
for ten too.

~~~
Fuzzwah
I dug up a link to a screenshot:

[http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/keskitsune/3409956/45220/4522...](http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/keskitsune/3409956/45220/45220_original.png)

------
what_ever
A quick preview here -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84NI5fjTfpQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84NI5fjTfpQ)

~~~
readerrrr
A First Look at Windows 10:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfveyXCsiA8&list=UUVGOyzms_X...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfveyXCsiA8&list=UUVGOyzms_XJNk_DHqrffXCw)

------
readerrrr
All I care is if I can set the theme back to classic, to resemble grey windows
nt/2000 style.

They mentioned that the start menu search is now also going to search the web.
Please make an option to disable that!

Also no mention of a clipboard manager. Personally I cannot work without a
clip history, I don't understand how can you be productive without it.

~~~
iLoch
[http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Software-
Windows-95/dp/B000N...](http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Software-
Windows-95/dp/B000NRY05G)

~~~
kostyk
i save $2,460.20 ?? really?

------
seanalltogether
I really want to know what MS is doing with their app store. They only let you
sell metro style apps that are forced onto a far more restricted sdk. If
they're continuing to backpedal on metro on the desktop side, does this mean
they'll start opening up the app store?

------
trvr
This guy nailed it: [http://www.infoworld.com/article/2613504/microsoft-
windows/m...](http://www.infoworld.com/article/2613504/microsoft-
windows/microsoft-skips--too-good--windows-9--jumps-to-windows-10.html)

------
agumonkey
Underwhelming. cmd text selection[1], start+tiles .. come on Microsoft you can
do better.

Snap assist, as simple as it looks might be the nicest thing demoed, dealing
with windows is such a time waster, having windows hand a one-click way to do
that might prove zen inducing to many many people. First time I feel a sense
of workflow in the UI (doing something on one window will make the OS react
and fill in with another object). Very valuable.

[1] take a look at babun for nix complete shell, and for windows purists, just
use powershell and pipe the result to the Mail app.

------
BrianEatWorld
I follow Windows development fairly closely and even do some Windows Phone
(phone) development on the side, but this version number thing has me
scratching my head. The explanation in the article doesn't help much either.

If I recall correctly, the number 9 is considered lucky in a wide variety of
places, which seems like it would help sales on a subconscious level.

Introspectively, it worries me that I have read three articles about Windows
10 this afternoon and instead of recalling any new features, all I can think
about is the version number...

~~~
blisterpeanuts
Well, "nine" sounds like "no" in German...

~~~
wflann
Don't worry, German also has a word for the number.

~~~
Igglyboo
Neun(9) and Nein(no) still sound extremely similar however.

~~~
ginko
German native speaker here. They don't really sound that similar.

~~~
Igglyboo
Oh well thanks for clearing that up then, I took a german class in high school
but apparently not a very good one as i remembering them being extremely
similar. Maybe my english ears lol

------
blisterpeanuts
It seems to me that Microsoft committed a faux-pas when it tried to revamp the
user interface. The huge installed base of WinXP-Win7 style UI is an asset,
not a liability. People have memorized how to use it; they don't want to throw
away all that effort.

Notice how Apple has resisted drastically revamping their own desktop/laptop
UI. It's not a touch/tablet UI, and it shouldn't try to be, as long as we
continue to use keyboards and mouse/trackpads to work with it.

~~~
bad_user
And I'm not seeing us give up traditional keyboards at least, or mice or
trackpads for that matter, trackpads which can also be multi-touch, because
they are very efficient for what they do ... writing text + pointing at things
without your hand blocking your vision, which is tied to the other advantage
of the traditional "PC", which is the ability to use big-ass monitors.

I remember the craze of tablets 2 years ago, they were supposed to be the
death of PCs. Now sales are declining and many tables turned out to be dust-
gathering paper holders, because compared to phones, you can't carry them in
your pocket. For Microsoft to try its hand at a laptop/tablet hybrid was the
worst mistake ever; instead of making Windows the best PC OS available, they
broke it even further than it was. And it's 2014 and that Command Prompt is
still retarded, with millions of software developers suffering because of it,
with many of them not even realizing it.

~~~
bratsche
It sounds like they may at least be trying to work on the command prompt:
[http://withinrafael.com/new-experimental-console-features-
in...](http://withinrafael.com/new-experimental-console-features-in-windows-
threshold/)

~~~
bad_user
Well, that's actually good to hear. A redesigned command prompt would make me
reconsider Windows faster than flashy things that interfere with my ADHD :-)

------
FreeKill
Personally, the biggest improvement to Windows for me would be the ability to
install the same copy of the OS multiple times, personally, for a reasonable
price. I have a laptop, desktop, and I'd also love to run a couple of virtual
machines as well. I think having multiple personal uses is pretty common, and
they need to change their licensing to be more flexible for that type of
environment, without needing a separate license for each installation...

------
n-gauge
Although it looks like Microsoft are trying to appease users with this
release, I'm finding myself still leaning towards Android L for quick app
development (using a java wrapped Chrome Web View).

I know Android is considered fragmented at the moment, but I would only
consider developing for 'L' and above as the new Chrome Web View would
suffice.

Does Microsoft offer anything similar which can build apps using free tools
(and isn't cloud based)?

~~~
Fuzzwah
I figure Visual Studio Express is what you're after...

[http://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/products/visual-studio-
exp...](http://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/products/visual-studio-express-
vs.aspx)

------
chaostheory
> The name is a surprise, bearing in mind it represents a jump from the last
> version - Windows 8.

I'm guessing this is because for some reason in Japanese culture 9 is a very
bad, unlucky number like how 13 is bad in most Western cultures.

~~~
Ideka
No. The japanese consider 4 and sometimes 7 to be "unlucky numbers". 9 is
fine.

~~~
chaostheory
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_superstitions](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_superstitions)

> There are several unlucky numbers in Japanese. Traditionally, 4 and 9 are
> unlucky. Four is sometimes pronounced shi, which is also the word for death.
> Nine is also sometimes pronounced ku, which can mean suffering... Because of
> these unlucky numbers, sometimes levels or rooms with 4 or 9 don't exist in
> hospitals or hotels, and particularly in the maternity section of a
> hospital,

I've never heard of 7 being an unlucky number for any culture. Then again
someone can prove me wrong.

------
majc2
Surely the bigger news is that it appears to be the same OS on all MS devices?

------
paulojreis
It's mesmerizing how a company such as Microsoft keeps shipping user interface
incarnations of the Frankenstein's monster. The lack of vision, even identity,
is astonishing.

~~~
acqq
Exactly. The new Start menu looks like something you'd prefer to be blocked by
an ad blocker (and I don't even use ad blockers in my browsers!) than like
something you'd like to see every time you try to start an application.

The reason "start screen" was annoying compared to the "start menu" was that
the "screen" removed _everything_ you worked at up to that point. They managed
to do nearly the same in the demo screens of the new "start menu." Talented.

------
ende
Did they bring back DOS?

------
Aardwolf
Such innovation?

