

IE9 adds support for CSS3, denies importance of ACID3 - judsoncollier
http://judsoncollier.com/blog/fullstory/internet_explorer_9_supports_css3_still_fails_misrably/

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halo
Actually, I'd argue that Microsoft's assessment of Acid3 is reasonably fair.

Acid 3 isn't like Acid 1 (sane CSS box model) or Acid 2 (good resiliant
consistent CSS2 support) - rather, it tests a whole bunch of random features
and JavaScript edge cases. I can perfectly understand why Microsoft would
prioritise implementing certain up-and-coming features or improving their
rendering speed and stability over implementing parts of Acid3.

~~~
wgj
_> it tests a whole bunch of random features_

It clearly can't be random if four other major browser vendors independently
score over 90%, and if:

 _Firefox 2, a browser released in 2006 and predates Acid 3, scores a 52/100
versus the current IE9 score of 32/100._

The only possible explanations are either a) it's an insidious and well
organized campaign to unfairly discredit IE, or b) IE, even unreleased IE9, is
way behind everybody.

No matter which you believe, random is not an option.

~~~
halo
Sorry, but I don't understand the point you are trying to make here.

By "random features" I mean that the features chosen are fairly arbitrary in
nature, taken from arbitrary sections of a fairly arbitrary selection of
standards. That's what makes the Acid3 test different from the Acid1 and Acid2
tests which were rather more specific in what they tested (i.e. CSS),
something which is much more fundamental to the web than _anything_ Acid3
tests.

Also, the Acid tests _are_ deliberately constructed with browser bugs in mind.
That's why IE fails it incredibly badly since it's been _designed_ to make IE
fail incredibly badly. There's no conspiracy when the entire point of the test
is that it reveals browser bugs.

That said, Microsoft _are_ behind everybody else, and no-one has said
otherwise. However, given inherent limited resources, I'm not sure if I'd
rather Microsoft focus on passing Acid3 than improving other aspects of their
browser. Given the choice between good CSS3 support and Canvas or SVG Fonts
and SMIL I'd prefer the prior pair, and I'm sure many of their users would
gladly choose improved performance and stability over web standards.

~~~
wgj
My point was simply that describing the tests as random or arbitrary
diminishes the value of the results without requiring an alternate viewpoint.
That would be fair if it were truly random, but I don't think it is.

Edit: Your last edit provides the alternate viewpoint. Your position seems to
be more that the attention is misguided, not random.

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sketerpot
Maybe I'll stop hating Internet Explorer quite so vehemently if they do these
things:

1\. Faster Javascript. This looks like the main point of IE 9, so apparently
we won't be waiting much longer for this one.

2\. SVG support. Every other browser does this; why not IE? There's so much
cool stuff we could do with SVG if only IE didn't hold us back.

3\. How about some HTML5 canvas support? Canvas is a nice, straightforward
API, and it's all sorts of useful. But as usual, IE strangles progress.

As a user, I can just ignore IE. But as a web developer, I absolutely loathe
it for making everybody jump through hoops to support it, and for holding back
SVG and canvas.

~~~
Periodic
It's as the author says:

 _IE glady rides the backseat in standards, and it’s making my life terrible._

In the inverse of your problem, I often have to interface with enterprise web
applications and help some of our other staff with them. They are only
approved to work on Windows XP with Internet Explorer 6 (though I think many
have finally moved to IE7 as a supported platform). This causes all sorts of
headaches for my Linux users when we have to access the financial system or
report time and leave.

There was a period of about 6 months where I was logging into the one Windows
computer in my group to report vacation because it was the only one with the
right version of Java and IE to get it to work.

~~~
xal
Did you have any success with suggesting Chrome Frame?

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joubert
It'd be nice if they could include in a SP to IE 6, 7, and 8 considering half
the planet is still on legacy browsers.

~~~
judsoncollier
Absolutely. I'm gung ho for IE catching up, but they don't bother to push
their IE 6 and 7 users to upgrade in the same way safari, firefox and all
other browsers use. Mainly, it's just creating yet-another-browser-to-test.

(edit: forgot to hit _reply_ and made a new message. doh.)

~~~
halo
It's a critical Windows update, meaning that for most people IE will update
automatically with Windows.

~~~
joubert
Why are so many people still on IE 6 then?

~~~
zaatar
Because local network admins in various big companies refuse to upgrade from
IE6 since they depend on internal applications coded against IE6 specifically,
and Microsoft does not control every single corporate LAN to be able to force
upgrades down their throats when they don't want them ...

~~~
fserb
do you realize that we are at the current situation precisely because every IE
version is different from the previous one and they are all different from the
standards available at their time?

If local network admins upgraded to the latest and greatest IE8/9 we would
still be in the same horse shit regarding IE not following web standards. We
would be free of "IE6 doesn't have a fucking clue about the box model". But we
would be at "IE8 doesn't support canvas (or proper event bubble)".

Microsoft has been using this "network admins don't upgrade from IE6" for too
long as an excuse for the mess they keep putting web standards into.

A proper solution for Microsoft now would be to completely ditch IE backend
and use one of the current available libraries like webkit. And put in place a
IE frontend that can have IE6/7/8 tabs and a proper browser (defaulting to a
proper browser). Any other move coming from Microsoft is either PR or
evilness.

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city41
You really can't use MS employee blogs against MS. They are written with no
supervision, come directly from the employee with no proof reading or
anything. They truly are just blogs.

