
Edmunds Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test Update for April - ilamont
https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2017/long-term-road-test/2017-tesla-model-3-monthly-update-for-april-2018.html
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dave1619
I've owned a Model 3 for over 5 months now with almost 6k miles on it. All I
can attest to is my personal experience and the experience of some friends who
also own a Model 3. Performance and handling on this car is truly amazing.
Autopilot (at least in my personal experience) has been excellent. That said I
understand the limitations of Autopilot and keep cautious oversight when it's
on. I've head a few minor issues with the car but they are very minor compares
to how great the car has been. For example, my trunk is difficult to close.
One of the panel pieces was bulging out but service ranger fixed that. And
sometimes the car doesn't recognize my phone to start the car, so I need to
start it from the app or use the key card. Hopefully Tesla will be able to
iron out these issues, and other issues that early owners have had. But I went
into it knowing that I'm an early owner and will face some issues on first
gen, first year car. All first gen, first year cars have their share of
problems.

But overall, I suggest those who seriously want to know what kind of car the
Model 3 is, is to test drive the car. And to ask Model 3 owners about the car.
The vast, vast majority of Model 3 owners I've talked with tell me the car is
truly amazing.

~~~
abduhl
I am trying to think of any other first generation first year car that had a
problem so basic as being on the order of "car doesn't recognize the
key/keyfob and so won't start" and I can't think of one.

~~~
rorso
My first-release Subaru XV wouldn't re-start lots during the stop-start
feature... in traffic. You'd have to put it in park, completely turn the car
off, take key out, put key back in, and restart the car. Turning off the stop-
start was the "solution" offered online, which reset every time you got back
in the car (so it was easy to forget).

Also the entire entertainment unit would "crash" every couple days, and not
work until another full "reboot" of the car like above. The screen would just
lock up, music would stop, nothing at all on the centre screen would respond.

I also had a VW Passat TSI that went back to the dealership 6 times in the
first year for electrical issues. Everything from the gearbox sensors failing
causing the car to go into limp mode, to the centre screen locking up like the
XV (in this case it would just fail to boot when you turned the car on), to
the electric seats moving themselves (bad ground). They ended up buying back
that car after the entire motor AND gearbox needed replacing at 11mths in.

I've owned a fair few new cars, and very few haven't had issues. Most were so
insignificant I just waited until next service schedule, but many needed to go
back under warranty.

New cars are complex machines that have problems.

~~~
justin66
VW and Subaru don't rank near the top of anyone's reliability rankings. You
don't seem bothered by the problems, but if you were you could always buy
something like a Toyota/Lexus.

~~~
shaklee3
This is incorrect. Subaru is ranked second in realiability after Toyota in
consumer reports.

~~~
justin66
I guess I was thinking of: [https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-
owner-satisf...](https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-
satisfaction/car-brands-reliability-how-they-stack-up/)

and yeah, Subaru doesn't rank too badly (sixth) on that list. I always thought
of Subarus as being good, long-term powertrain reliability notwithstanding.
The gas mileage they're getting while running normally-aspirated, full-time
AWD powertrains is pretty impressive. I can't imagine why the parent's car was
so utterly screwed up, but I wouldn't be happy about a problem that required
me to turn the car off and take the key out.

I think the advice on getting a Toyota or a Lexus if you want to maximize your
odds of not having problems like the parent described still stands. The
conventional wisdom is that their reliability comes from making continuous
small changes to their models instead of waiting to make major changes,
although next year's Corolla hatchback looks like a pretty major one. It will
be interesting to see what the first-year reliability of that model is.

------
rwbt
A lot of annoyances, needless complicated door handles, buggy software. But
this made me smile and the car enthusiast inside me is ecstatic.

> "This car is a joy to drive on Angeles Crest Highway, and I don't say that
> lightly. Angeles Crest is a famously demanding road that winds up into the
> San Gabriel Mountains north of Los Angeles. You need brakes, power and a
> taut, balanced chassis to do it right. The Model 3 has it all. Body roll is
> minimal, the brakes don't complain, the steering is gratifyingly precise,
> and there are gobs of instant torque on tap. Plus, the regenerative braking
> function means you use the actual brake pedal less often.

> "It's a new kind of fun to lift off the throttle ahead of a corner and
> realize you've already scrubbed enough speed without even touching the
> pedal. After my drive, a friend of mine asked me how the Model 3 compares to
> the current BMW 3 Series, and I told him I'd rather have the Tesla. He
> laughed. I wasn't kidding."

~~~
dingaling
> Body roll is minimal

There are a couple of problems with the obsession for flat cornering.

One is that its uncomfortable for people in the car, particularly passenger,
who are pushed sideways into the seat-bolsters and side panels.

More importantly is when lateral grip finally breaks there is no warning to
the driver with a cocked wheel and gentle progression: it just lets go.

As a counter-example Mazda have always engineered some body-roll into the
Miata / MX-5 so that it's fun and communicative in corners.

~~~
rwbt
> More importantly is when lateral grip finally breaks there is no warning to
> the driver with a cocked wheel and gentle progression: it just lets go.

This honestly depends on the tires. A lot of performance tires lose grip very
gradually. Don't know what tires the Model 3 comes with, but with a good set
it shouldn't be an issue.

> As a counter-example Mazda have always engineered some body-roll into the
> Miata / MX-5 so that it's fun and communicative in corners.

I daily drive an MX-5 and the body roll drives me nuts. If you ever drive a
modded Miata or an S2000/BRZ or a Porsche Cayman it'll be very apparent how
their lack of body roll gives superior driving dynamics while still being very
compliant. Not saying Miata is a boat, but it's overly wallow-y for a car of
that size.

------
bmcusick
Maybe I’ll get the Model 3.11 for Workgroups.

------
MBCook
I can’t wait to see the apologists on this one.

The Model 3 seems more like an alpha/prototype than a real car for consumers.
As soon as I saw the interior I knew it wasn’t going to go well, seems it’s
worse than I thought. Add in the software issues and other bugs they seem to
be in countering in this is a pathetic experience for a $60,000 car + years of
waiting.

~~~
jjeaff
I had to look that price up, because I could have sworn the big talking points
was the $35k price tag. And sure enough, average purchase estimates are
swelling past $50k average and some paying closer to $60k.

~~~
greglindahl
Tesla should absolutely be condemned for offering options, like every other
carmaker.

~~~
mmt
Your sarcasm doesn't add much to the conversation.

Here's _my_ actual criticism: Is there actually a $35k "option" (base model)
yet? I'm pretty sure the answer is "no".

I'm not going so far as a condemnation, but I'd like to see reviews of _that_
model before passing judgment.

Also, is it common for "every other carmaker" to have that huge a difference
in price within the same model, barring actual structural differences
(coupe/sedan/wagon)? $56k is 160% of the $35k price.

~~~
greglindahl
The $35k Model 3 will be released when they need to ship them -- until then,
they're going to ship higher-priced higher-margin cars. (Even higher-priced
dual motor and performance models just got released because production has
finally gotten to a reasonable level and they're willing to introduce kinks in
the production line.)

The same thing was done with Model S and Model X. I have air suspension
because elsewise I would have had to wait longer than the 9 months I'd already
waited in 2012-2013.

The only difference between the current cheapest 3 and the $35k model is
battery size, which affects weight and the max performance.

~~~
mmt
> will be released when they need to ship them

Does this jibe with your "all other carmakers" comparison? I do know that
different _models_ routinely get released at different times (separated by
months), but different option packages?

> The only difference between the current cheapest 3 and the $35k model is
> battery size, which affects weight and the max performance.

And? How does _it_ drive?

~~~
greglindahl
I gave you enough clues to guess how it drives, but if you don't want to
guess, then I guess you'll have to wait. "Late 2018" is what the configurator
tells me.

~~~
mmt
> enough clues

Disagree. Plus, I want a descriptive a review, like TFA, except for the car
that's affordable.

> you'll have to wait.

Meanwhile, you'll have to live through the valid criticism that they haven't
released a car at the promised price.

------
erik_landerholm
The braking, if correct is terrible. It’s not the 80s anymore.
[https://jalopnik.com/consumer-reports-says-it-found-big-
flaw...](https://jalopnik.com/consumer-reports-says-it-found-big-flaws-with-
the-tesla-1826198783)

~~~
stephengillie
> _In CR’s testing, Model 3 's braking distance from 60 mph was 152 feet, a
> distance that the outlet claimed is “far worse than any contemporary car [it
> has] tested” and was nearly seven feet longer than the braking distance than
> that of a Ford F-150._

Another article[0] in this thread has more:

 _In a recent test of various 2018 F-150s, Motor Trend recorded a 129-foot
stopping distance for the 3.3-liter XL Supercab model, while an upscale Lariat
trim made the stop in 10 fewer feet. For comparison, a Chrysler 300S tested by
the same publication made the stop in 109 feet._

For comparison, a 2016 Camry Hybrid:

> _Stopping distance from 60 mph is around 125 feet, which is average for the
> midsize hybrid segment..._ [1]
    
    
      Car           distance (feet)
      Model 3       152
      F-150         129
      Camry Hybrid  125
      F-150 Lariat  119
      Chrysler 300S 109
    

[0][http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/05/pump-brakes-
consume...](http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/05/pump-brakes-consumer-
reports-dings-model-3-lackluster-stops/)

[1][https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/2016-Toyota-Camry-
Overview-c25...](https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/2016-Toyota-Camry-
Overview-c25220)

------
jtchang
Man I bet their JIRA project issue bug counters are in the tens of thousands
at this point.

~~~
trhway
just instead of points they burn wads of cash

------
flyGuyOnTheSly
>The passenger vanity mirror fell off completely. Installed and held on only
by double-sided tape.

That is the most worrying report of all... taping together parts of a $56,000
automobile? Glass parts, no less?

Sounds like desperation is taking hold at Tesla imho...

~~~
userbinator
What did you expect? Tape is not uncommon. Pretty much all mirrors are held on
with double-sided tape, or some other soft adhesive.

~~~
flyGuyOnTheSly
>What did you expect?

Some actual engineering of a snap together framework at the very least? (Which
would be even cheaper than just taping it together in the long run...)

Some nuts and bolts, perhaps?

I have never heard of a mirror "falling off" of any consumer car unless it was
in some kind of accident... especially not after a few months of ownership...
of a $56,000 car...

~~~
userbinator
_Some nuts and bolts, perhaps?_

It's a piece of glass. Adding such fastening would increase the cost of
assembly significantly. Double-sided tape is an industry standard. Cars
costing more and less than $56k use it. It just appears that it wasn't very
good tape in this case. Good double-sided tape can stick very, _very_ well.

~~~
flyGuyOnTheSly
>It's a piece of glass. Adding such fastening would increase the cost of
assembly significantly.

But at least it would be guaranteed not lead to reviews of 3 month old cars
where the glass mirrors were not falling off and making the company look
poorly before it even gains mass adoption.

The engineering of early macbook pros was absolutely over the top and
ridiculously expensive... but Apple knew that they were buying trust with that
added expense.

You can't build trust with a taped on mirror that falls off into the lap of a
powerful reviewer.

>Cars costing more and less than $56k use it

I'm sure that they do... but I suspect that the brands behind them have been
around a bit longer than Tesla has.

If McDonalds serves me a crummy burger for the first time in the hundreds of
times that I've frequented them... I'll forgive them and go back without
hesitation.

If the brand new Uncle Ricks Burger Shack pops up and sells me an overpriced,
crappy burger... I'm going to tell everyone I know never to waste their money
at that lousy joint. (Before they've probably even had the chance to visit and
make their own decisions!)

The Model 3 was Tesla's first start in the big leagues... they should have
made sure that their mirrors were not falling off after a few months of
regular use... that is the only point I am trying to make.

The fact that other car companies use tape to secure mirrors is irrelevant to
my argument.

~~~
vinceguidry
> The engineering of early macbook pros was absolutely over the top and
> ridiculously expensive... but Apple knew that they were buying trust with
> that added expense.

This is a myth. Early Macbook Pros weren't even actually unibody, even though
they were advertised as such. Instead they glued two pieces of aluminum
together, which would come apart after awhile. Numerous issues with screens
delaminating and such as well.

They were certainly better-engineered than their existing counterparts, but
build quality at Apple has always been a third-tier concern.

------
Animats
_" Autopilot was launched back in 2014. At what point does it stop being
beta?"_ \- Edmunds

------
brisance
Does the car not come with an anti-glare coating on the display? Seems like it
could be a safety issue when driving with the sun at the back.

------
ryandetzel
I couldn't find it in the details but I would assume because that this is an
early production car which had known issues and if you believe the more recent
reports the car is in much much better condition now only after a couple
months of production. Growing pains, if these were issues on a model 1-2 years
old there would be issues but they've only been sending cars down the line for
<5 months in any real numbers.

I can't wait to get mine, sure there might be issues but I'm pretty confident
the amazing features will shadow any minor tape issues that can easily be
rectified.

------
aportnoy
Let's hope the hardware is not as buggy as the software.

------
xt00
Sounds like the touchscreen is getting noise coupled into it from the ground
of the car being different from the touchscreen's power supply. Assuming that
they have something like 12V avail to power that unit, then a buck that gives
you 3.3V, so probably somewhere in that chain there is a bunch of noise
coupling in.. common mode noise.. gotta squash that..

------
TeeWEE
I don't care about the software bugs, software will only get better over time.
For me the most important is build quality. And i think Tesla is doing its
best to have a high build quality. Maybe for the first few cars rolling of the
assembly line there might be problems.

I still hope for the best.

------
magoon
Software updates can possibly fix most of the complaints?

Any non-software problems further the theory that the quality of any car lies
in the assembly line itself; Modern auto manufacturers’ core product is
actually their factory.

------
erik_landerholm
[https://www.autoblog.com/2018/05/22/elon-musk-admits-
tesla-m...](https://www.autoblog.com/2018/05/22/elon-musk-admits-tesla-
model-3-has-a-braking-issue-promises-fix/)

Hopefully, this sorts it.

------
sunstone
Ok so, bottom line, some software bugs, some cosmetic issues, some "we're not
used to doing it like that" situations and a fabulous piece of driving
engineering. Edmunds don't seem to have their automotive priorities in the
right order here.

~~~
vntok
Don't forget the Autocrash feature.

