

Europe’s New Culture Capital Is Lisbon - pmcpinto
http://elevatedtoday.com/2015/03/06/europes-new-culture-capital-is-here-and-its-not-berlin-barcelona-or-paris/

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fmsf
I am a software engineer and I no longer have friends in the city where I grew
up (Coimbra), I would say that 90% of my friends are off the country working
somewhere else (mainly UK and DE). Unless you want to work at a sweatshop
consulting company, or a service provider, Lisbon is not the place to go.

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pmcpinto
The country is in this situation partly because a lot of portuguese people are
like this fellow user. Only complain about the negative stuff instead of
focusing in the positive parts of Portugal.

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glaberficken
The country is in this situation partly because a lot of portuguese people are
like this fellow user. Prefer to merrily bury their head in the sand instead
of acting on the dramatic reality developing around them.

~~~
pmcpinto
I'm not saying that the country if perfect, far from it. But is a great
country to leave while working remotely for a company outside of Portugal for
example.

Portugal produces great talent in a lot of areas, but all the top talent
leaves and it's impossible to revert the situation.

~~~
glaberficken
Talented people will come back voluntarily to a society that invests in that
talent, I agree with you that it does seem like an impossible problem to solve
in the near future.

~~~
pmcpinto
That’s true. I think that one of the ways to invert the situation is to
convince the top talent to stay and build their own companies. There are some
good examples doing that, but the ecosystem isn’t strong enough yet and the
legislation doesn’t help either.

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smackay
The best of both worlds is living in Lisbon while working remote for at least
a European company and even better an American one. Since I arrived here in
2004 I've worked for British, French and now Swiss-based companies. I have
only worked for one Portuguese company (the somewhat well-known one from
Coimbra) and I'd never do it again.

fmsf's comment about the sweatshop environment is accurate, but only because
the skills of Portuguese management are spectacularly bad. All management
decisions are based on a single variable: cost and cheaper always means
better. Having said that there are some spectacularly awesome, world-class,
engineers here.

If there was more money floating around, Lisbon would be an awesome center for
startups (there are quite a few already) - great beaches, decent night-life,
plenty of culture and awesome weather (though a little too warm for my
tastes).

~~~
rmvt
well, i moved recently to london (from porto) and, tbh, i'd love to know that
i could have the opportunity to work remotely from portugal... (how do you
people find these jobs??)

i've seen bad and good management. i've been under bad management from german
managers as well, whilst in portugal, and i've been under bad management here.
let's cut the crap, it's not only in portugal that you find bad managers. you
find them EVERYWHERE. they do thrive especially well in portugal due to the
weak economy. people put up with crap that they wouldn't otherwise.

i would just add that anyone could say just about the same things about porto.
probably with the advantage of the city being a bit more cheap/less expensive
than lisboa.

~~~
gnclmorais
[https://weworkremotely.com](https://weworkremotely.com) is a good start to
find remote jobs.
[http://careers.stackoverflow.com](http://careers.stackoverflow.com) as well.

I worked in London for one year and I prefer working there. Waaaay more stuff
to do in London, and you have a lot of great developers over there.

~~~
rmvt
i've come across those before (and a few others) but they don't seem to have,
normally, roles i'd be looking for (android dev.)

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patroqueeet
Hey, I've been working for the Samwers in Berlin, for US based companies and
recently in Lisbon. And yes, the vibrations and creativity of the ciy is still
unique and not yet overun by hipster crowds. I believe it will stay like that
for quite a while because there is no giant rush of international masses to
the city to live and work like in berlin. thats good for staying a creative
landmark, thats bad for driving business and startups forward. most stuff here
is dominated by local people or international enterprises and as long no
international strong interest si driving knowledge and skill into the city it
won't change.

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glaberficken
36 year old long time HN lurker, born and raised in Lisbon.

Lisbon in some sense is like a tourism start-up. The number of visitors has
exploded in the past few years and like other mass tourism capitals in Europe
(ie: Barcelona) the flood of tourism is bringing with it a loss of identity.

Eventually, like most successful start-ups its culture will be ruined by its
own success.

Regarding the low-cost aspect, it's purely related to the low salaries that
derive from the way we were fucked over on the Euro deal. Simple as that.

~~~
gnclmorais
Stop blaming the Euro… It was not its fault. We are just awful at managing
money we lack a strong moral sense. Simple as that.

~~~
glaberficken
Have you ever tried researching the factual rational counter-arguments to that
idea?

I think you owe yourself that, because repeating what you hear on the news is
not going to make you a better [+edit] informed [/edit] citizen any time soon.

You can start here for example:
[http://esquerdaalternativa.bloco.org/documentos/18-a-chantag...](http://esquerdaalternativa.bloco.org/documentos/18-a-chantagem-
da-divida-contra-a-democracia.html)

~~~
gnclmorais
Do you know who repeats what they hear on the news? People that blame the
Euro.

But I’ll read that article, if you say it’s worth it. Thank you.

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pjmlp
Nice to see my home country and one of the cities I have spent a great deal of
my life on HN.

~~~
marvel_boy
Unfortunately Lisbon will not have a future. No bright american, english or
french will go to a city where wages are 20.000 euros per annum. No way.

~~~
eis
You dont have to work for a local company to enjoy life in a certain place.
Especially when you are a programmer or similar which allows for
telecommuting.

~~~
pjmlp
The problem there is that there is a fierce competition from off-shore
paradises, which have even lower salaries.

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hiringcat2
Lisboa? Really? Even the chap who tried to pick my pocket last time I visited
there asked me how things were in my home country.

We employ a lot of folks from Portugal here, and none seem to miss the
employers back there.

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mping
Instead of reading and jumping to conclusions, come here and take a look. I'm
gonna borrow some french and say there's a certain je ne sais quois in Lisbon.
If any HN'ers want to come here and visit, I'll be happy to show you around.
Lisbon really shines, specially in the summer

Oh, and if you want to hire tech people, we have some good people over here
who are wasting talent on sweatshops and the like.

~~~
pmcpinto
Is not even spring and Lisbon is already shining. More than 23C of temperature
today ;)

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nols
It's a nice article, and it certainly makes me want to visit; but it seems
like a stretch to call Lisbon Europe's new culture capital, especially when
it's "virtually unknown" like the author says.

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Lidador
This is Portugal:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4cyNK3BW7Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4cyNK3BW7Q)

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staz
Mons, European Capital of Culture for 2015, would like a word with you
...(just kidding)

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lutoma
tl;dr: American goes to Portugal without knowing anything about it, realizes
there's actually interesting stuff and culture in Lisbon, thinks that means
it's a super special city or something.

~~~
marcusgarvey
Well it _is_ super special to be both affordable to live in and have the kind
of culture and community that would appeal to young cosmopolitan people. It's
not very easy to find this combo these days.

~~~
glaberficken
Lisbon is not affordable to live in for the locals . I make 800 EUR a month in
a Business Intelligence role at a growing multinational company in Lisbon. My
rent for a 1 bedroom flat in a very modest part of the inner suburbs comes out
at 380 EUR.

Combine that with an unemployed wife and you have a pretty standard picture of
what the average young couple with 1 child is faced with here. (not to speak
about the thousands educated and younger than me who are being forced out of
the country because they can't afford to start a family or even leave their
parent's houses)

Just for comparison I lived for 5 years in London UK, made 3000 EUR a month
and could save enough to travel frequently . While renting a 2 bedroom house
with a small garden.

~~~
pmcpinto
Why did you come back to Portugal?

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glaberficken
My wife was unhappy in London. Family happiness above money. I don't regret
the decision. I do regret the sad situation in the country though.

~~~
gnclmorais
I have trouble understanding people that are not happy in London. Maybe it’s
just my spirit city or something.

