

Doing Y Combinator in your 30s - dannyr
http://zencoder.com/encoder-blog/2010/09/21/doing-y-combinator-in-your-30s/http://zencoder.com/encoder-blog/2010/09/21/doing-y-combinator-in-your-30s/

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tptacek
If you're technical and you think you've got enough hustle to start a company,
you can run at an _arbitrary_ standard of living for a long time as a 1099
contractor.

I'm past arguing that YC isn't worth it because the money is too small and
getting funded is a bad trajectory[1]; the program has clearly been a huge win
for a lot of people. But you can execute the 37signals playbook after
attending YC. Just go, launch, and then consult.

If you have a 3-person team with a strong dev that has a short runway, that
dev should have no trouble picking up 1-2 month projects to keep himself going
with the company. It is so straightforward to do this, the money is so good,
and the commitments are so flexible that I'm led to question the "you should
make as little as possible" advice.

Why burn your family out? There's no points for effort, only for execution.

I'm 34, for what it's worth.

[1] I still believe both those things, though.

~~~
jon_dahl
Without turning this into "37signals vs. Y Combinator", let's just say there
are pros and cons to each approach.

One of the cons of contracting is can be really hard to divide your attention
in a startup. If there is any possible way you can devote 100% of your
attention to a startup, then by all means, do it. I'm 10x more productive when
I put 100% of my time into a startup instead of 50%. 10x, not 2x. Just my
experience.

On the other hand, contracting is a great backup plan. It kept Zencoder alive
in the early days, and we still do some video-related consulting work to
reduce our burn and compliment our encoding service.

 _There's no points for effort, only for execution._

Well said. Mind if I use that? :)

~~~
tptacek
Contracting is _very_ distracting. But it's distracting in a different way
than a full-time job. And I think it's game-changing for lean startups in a
way that may moot some of the concern about concentration.

First, contracting requires hustle just like moving a product does. It's an
investment decision (of time, rather than money) in a way that a 9-5 job can't
be. It involves company building and has knock-on effects (recruiting,
applications for IP) that can help the product business. And it is flexible.

And this whole notion that you need unbreakable concentration to start a
company seems like an extension of the idea that there's a runway, launch, and
hockey-stick curve to all product businesses. But those things that yo' liable
to read in de blog posts, they ain't necessarily so. Particularly if you have
a functioning consulting engine.

I'm less familiar with direct-to-consumer products than most people on HN are;
I sell to businesses. The overlap between selling services to companies and
selling products to companies is _significant_. Maybe you should consider
something businesses want, so you have options besides getting shot out of the
VC cannon.

~~~
aaronkaplan
What do you mean about consulting being good for recruiting? Surely you don't
poach employees from your clients?

~~~
tptacek
Of course we don't. Being able to pay people is very good for recruiting, is
my point.

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gigantor
I'm in my 30's and I feel I have one huge advantage over numerous
20-somethings: ability to do short term contract work, and fund the startup
that way. This is assuming :

a) you have enough networking/experience to land sufficient paid contract work
fairly easily b) your short term contract (3-6 months) can provide you just
enough income to keep you going for the rest of the year.

Sure, I certainly don't have the careless energy level as I had in my 20's,
and have a lot more responsibility, but the ability to work smarter, having a
better eye for what may or may not work through experience, and identifying
the right people to hang out with surely makes up for the shortcomings.

Last, but this is _huge_ for me personally, is the feeling of 'this is my last
chance' that's ever more so prevalent now than in my 20's, where I always knew
I had some leeway years left as an excuse to not put in 100%.

~~~
kapitti
I'm not sure someone that was going to perform short term contracting during
YC would get accepted.

~~~
gigantor
Certainly not, but the idea behind contracting is that you make enough to fund
yourself, and therefore not require YC money in the first place. Most YC
amounts are around the $20k range, which you can easily make with a few months
of contracting.

------
dgallagher
Dave Thomas founded Wendy's when he was ~37 years old:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Thomas_(American_businessm...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Thomas_\(American_businessman\)#Wendy.27s)

Sam Walton founded Wal-Mart when he was ~44:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Walton#The_first_Wal-Mart>

Henry Ford founded Ford when he was ~40:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_ford#Ford_Motor_Company>

~~~
muhfuhkuh
Oracle was started when Larry Ellison was 33.

------
sunir
The post-investment salary rule is something a lot of people trip over, but
it's important. The rule is simple:

Pay yourself enough that you're not thinking about taking a part-time job to
support yourself (and your family). You should be able to focus on the startup
without financial distraction.

You don't need money to put into savings. You don't need a fancy car. You
don't need fine dining. You're sacrificing now for the chance at big upside
later. Every dollar you waste on yourself is hurting your chances of bigger
success.

~~~
dpapathanasiou
_You don't need money to put into savings._

I was with you except for that; having savings is important, especially if the
company fails.

~~~
joshuacc
I think he meant that you don't need to be putting current income into
savings.

~~~
dedward
It's a matter of financial opinion I think - putting a percentage of your
income, whatever that's a little or a lot, into your long-term savings should
be a mandatory thing for most people - like food and shelter. It's money you
never touch - it need not be a lot, but it's not something you should simply
stop doing just because you're cutting corners - it's more important in the
long run than people often give it credit for.

------
wyclif
I await the upcoming blog post "Doing Y Combinator in Your 40's." That's
something I'd read immediately.

~~~
danielnicollet
... and I want "Doing Y Combinator in Your 70's." Is that wrong kids?

~~~
RK
The startup I was working for until recently (building scientific hardware)
was founded by a couple in their 70's. They basically sunk all of their
retirement money into it. I can't say that it was the best financial move in
the world, especially when the economy went south and you're trying to sell
$1M+ pieces of equipment.

~~~
Tichy
Come to think of it, they are in a similar position as the young kids: very
little risk. What do they have to lose? They might not need that much money
anymore.

~~~
Symbol
I have no numbers in front of me, but I'm sure cost of living for over-65 is
greater than for under-25, if only in terms of health care costs. It's subtly
worse than that however: the 22 year old can roll that experience into their
resume and make themselves more attractive to future, traditional employers.
Talk to any out-of-worker 60 year old, and you'll hear tales of woe about
ageism and "too experienced".

------
eric9
_Programmer. Smart and driven. Went to MIT or Stanford, or else skipped
college altogether._

Am I the only one who sometimes feels like you might as well have skipped
college if you didn't go to Stanford, MIT, or some other top school? Anything
else seems to be considered Blub U., and Google and the other cool companies
that you would like to work for don't hire from Blub U.

Maybe this is why so many hackers who didn't get into MIT or some other top
school turn to entrepreneurship; degree or no degree, the job opportunities
aren't so hot otherwise.

~~~
seiji
It's just talk. Ignore them.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Buchheit> "went to college at Case Western
Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio."

~~~
eric9
Notice, it says he was employee #23. I think Google's standards have risen
since then, and even if they make the odd exception here and there, betting on
being such an exception seems questionable.

~~~
mechanical_fish
Why, I do believe my beloved alma mater has been slandered! I need to recruit
Buchheit and Eric Meyer and the ghost of A.A. Michaelson and _Donald freaking
Knuth_ and come kick your butt! ;)

No, seriously: It doesn't matter. People manage to succeed with pitiful little
CWRU degrees like my own. And, obviously, many of the most successful people
in the industry never went to college at all.

I have heard the occasional rumor that Google is obsessed with academic
credentials. If true, that is more of a problem for them than for you.

~~~
eric9
I wasn't bashing CW, just pointing out that it was easier to get hired at
Google in the early days than it is now, and picking out early hires who
didn't go to Stanford isn't really representative of their current hiring
practices and isn't something you should count on happening to you.

------
pwim
If age doesn't matter, why is it on the application form to YC?

~~~
jon_dahl
Good question. My guess: age helps put other accomplishments in context.
"Worked at Google for 6 years" means different things if you're 35 than if
you're 21.

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dirktheman
Thank you for sharing this. I'm 31 too, and currently working on my YC
application. In my case, I'm even more focused on making things work _because_
I have a mortgage to pay and a family to support. A lean burn rate is one of
the means to this end.

------
Tichy
Is bringing spouse and kid along an option at all? Also if you are from
overseas - is it possible with visa?

~~~
datsro
If you hope to focus on the work as often as you can, I would recommend not
bringing the kids. It can be done but boundaries need to be in place for your
spouse/kids and your co-founders.

~~~
rgrieselhuber
If you can stand to be away from them for more than a day. I can't.

------
dean
Y Combinator is strictly for college kids. The restriction is based not on
age, but on money. Older people are implicitly excluded because they can't
afford to give up their income to pursue a startup. Wife, kids and a mortgage
cost money.

As a result, I think the Y Combinator startup market is only a fraction of
what it could be, if older founders could be included. I imagine there would
be so many more and different ideas than what we currently see.

I think a Y Combinator-like incubator, that provides enough funding for older
founders, would thrive. If funding was in the range of say 70K to 90K per
founder, many more companies could be started. And really, that's still not a
lot of money for the VC/Angel/Incubator industry. It wouldn't take too many
hits to make a profit for the funders with these numbers.

Despite what the original post says, Y Combinator is implicitly intended for
college-age kids. And that's fine. But think of how many more opportunities
there could be for both Y Combinator and founders, if the funding available
could support older people.

------
edanm
Funny story: I was looking for a domain name for my blog. I have a Taoism/Zen
theme, so I registered a few names in that genre (like "The Tao of Code").

As I was looking around, I tried ZenCoder. I was annoyed to see that it was
already in use, but I quickly forgot about it. A few months later, I started
reading about them in Tech Crunch and on HN!

I ended up going with LoopyCode.com.

------
jpuderer
I'm in a similar boat. I'm 31, married, with no kids so far. I quit my job to
pursue a startup. It's good timing for me.

To be a successful founder, I don't think that it makes a lot of difference
how old you are, but it does make a significant different where you are in
life. I think this manifests itself most if you're trying to find a co-
founder.

Most founders in their early 20s have very little in the way of assets or
obligations to speak of. This makes finding a compatible co-founder in the
same age group much easier. Everyone starts out in a similar situation.

On the other hand, founders in their 30s have had a lot more time to
complicate their situation (for better or worse): kids, marriage, mortgage,
and money. Finding a co-founder is more difficult, since accommodating both
potential founders can be more difficult. There's more to accommodate.

In my social circles, there tend to be more complicated situations than simple
ones.

Does anyone have any experience to share?

