
Pedestrian routing that offers pleasant alternatives to the shortest route - liotier
https://www.gislounge.com/finding-pleasant-routes-using-gis/
======
mumblemumble
> Furthermore, many routes chosen are often potentially not very pleasant for
> the cyclist

And how. I've found that my preferred routes don't just differ from what
Google Maps might suggest, they also tend to avoid all the places that my city
thought might be a good place for a posted bike lane. The bike lanes are all
on noisy, busy streets that aren't pleasant to ride on, and the bike lanes
themselves are often full of delivery trucks and rideshare drivers.

I choose a bicycle as my primary mode of transportation specifically because I
dislike all the noise and rush and stress that automobiles represent,
facilitate and encourage. I've already decided to take 5 minutes longer to get
where I'm going for the sake of having a more pleasant life, I can spare
another 5 minutes in order to have an even more pleasant life. Worst case
scenario, it still beats anything Peloton wants to sell me.

~~~
crooked-v
> and the bike lanes themselves are often full of delivery trucks and
> rideshare drivers

This is part of why separated bike lanes are so important.

~~~
dmix
Separated bike lanes means you cant move out of the way quickly when there are
slow newbie bikers (Ive had two accidents because of bikers like this who
swerve unpredictably as a natural course of biking), pedestrians crossing over
them, or garbage, or w/e in the way. I avoid them at any point where high
speed is possible and Ive never seen a car complain because I know how to ride
with traffic without slowing them down.

In my view separated bike lanes are for casuals, not serious commuters. I'd
much prefer sharrows and marked mixed lanes personally. Just visual reminders
to drivers to share the road is designate our area is sufficient IMO.

~~~
Symbiote
You are perhaps cycling more for sport than transport. Cycling infrastructure
needs to be usable for the majority of people (age 6 to 86, fit, fat, bicycle,
tricycle etc).

Segregated lanes in Denmark and the Netherlands work fine. Those using a
bicycle for energetic exercise will choose quiet places and times, just like
car drivers who want to drive fast can't use city streets.

~~~
dmix
No I commuted for years, I live close enough to walk to work now so I’m less
invested in this debate these days.

But I just think the marked lanes and sharrows are a good enough compromise
for the serious commuters and the casuals. I’m not an expert nor closer to the
mean of the typical rider (I build my own bikes, ride fast but safe, like a
bike messenger without the suicide wish) so I try not to get all holy about
this.

I should also note I find Toronto’s more plentiful marked lanes to be pretty
good but I avoid the separated one on Adelaide. it’s much improved over past
years.

~~~
tga_d
>But I just think the marked lanes and sharrows are a good enough compromise
for the serious commuters and the casuals.

There have been several studies that show sharrows don't actually help, and in
some cases even hinder, bike safety.

E.g., [https://trid.trb.org/view/1393928](https://trid.trb.org/view/1393928)
[https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/40917](https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/40917)
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S204604301...](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2046043018300583)

~~~
dmix
Like I said I’m not heavily invested in this argument but separated lanes
aren’t a panacea and are probably the best compromise for the average rider.
It’s just something me and a lot of people I know would avoid for safety and
further push us into traffic while confused cars think we’re the dumb ones.

I’ve never been on a separated bike lane without it being jammed up and
cluttered with people who don’t know what they are doing, unless it’s dead out
I’m not using them or would avoid the street entirely.

I miss Montreal which built bike highways in neighborhoods adjacent to busy
one way streets (another good idea). Riding there was always a joy. SF scared
the shit out of me but mostly because the city is disgustingly dirty and the
roads are weird.

~~~
bkor
> Like I said I’m not heavily invested in this argument but separated lanes
> aren’t a panacea

As mentioned, separated bike lines are way safer. Pedestrians won't suddenly
step on bike lanes if you actually mark them properly and consistently, plus
apply a height difference. Obviously there's exceptions to this but "right of
way" goes in hand with "mistakes happen". Meaning, anticipate on what might
happen. I cycle every day to work. There's something weird every single day.
Sometimes a car, sometimes another bicycle, sometimes a pedestrian.

I live in The Netherlands btw, and those shared roads are _way_ more
dangerous. What's way more likely is that the separated bike path was
implemented in name, but missed out on the several bits that Netherlands has
standard that other countries IMO completely mess up.

~~~
Symbiote
> other countries IMO completely mess up

That looks to be the issue here.

For the segregated cycle paths in Copenhagen, "legally, the minimum width is
1.7 metres"[1]. That cycle path on Adelaide Street, Toronto looks to be about
as wide as the tram tracks (1.4m), but about ⅓ of it is wasted with rough
asphalt at the edge, and for something like 80% of its length it's just paint,
with the remaining 20% using poles and planters. There are also regular
manholes.

One in Copenhagen [2] has a kerb most of the way, and is wider. It's still
worse around the junctions than the standard design in the Netherlands [3]
(somewhere in Rotterdam). (Note that both of these are typical, I clicked once
on the map on a likely-looking medium-sized road.)

dmix praises Montreal, which looks to be approaching the Danish or Dutch
quality, although still has a way to go -- there are gaps in the lanes, and
they sometimes go traffic-side past parked cars.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in_Copenhagen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in_Copenhagen)

[2]
[https://www.google.com/maps/@55.6830112,12.5481995,3a,75y,29...](https://www.google.com/maps/@55.6830112,12.5481995,3a,75y,295.22h,87.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-manrWCSaz-
mu4DgQdLQAw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

[3]
[https://www.google.com/maps/@51.9381892,4.5402326,3a,75y,267...](https://www.google.com/maps/@51.9381892,4.5402326,3a,75y,267.77h,85.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sF582I8ObZzxRc1knQeXiWQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

------
filleokus
I think there is much potential in this area. Google Maps et. al have
basically solved A->B in most cities, most of the times. Strava has helped me
with answering "I'm in a new city and want to bike 1-2 hours, where should I
go" with their heat maps and route planner.

It would be nice if Google got their hands on the Strava data and integrated
it for more casual bike-navigation.

I would also love a mode which lowers the cognitive load of navigation while
biking. Perhaps I could save a minute by taking a short-cut involving 10
different turns, but when in unfamiliar territory (and hence using navigation
software in the first place), each turn poses some difficulty. So many times
I've missed to take a turn because the audio cues have been so ever slightly
off.

~~~
RcouF1uZ4gsC
>I would also love a mode which lowers the cognitive load of navigation while
biking. Perhaps I could save a minute by taking a short-cut involving 10
different turns, but when in unfamiliar territory (and hence using navigation
software in the first place), each turn poses some difficulty. So many times
I've missed to take a turn because the audio cues have been so ever slightly
off.

I would love having this mode for cars as well. Sometimes to shave off a
couple of minutes, maps will route along the hypotenuse of a right triangle
via a lot of turns on smaller roads. I would have preferred just going along
the main road and making a single turn, even if that took a few minutes
longer. This is especially important at night where the road signage may have
reduced visibility.

~~~
cortesoft
My problem is too many left turns at stop signs... here in Los Angeles, those
are basically impossible, but Waze loves to try to make you take them.

~~~
adrianmonk
I feel that pain. I live on a side street right off a very busy road. EVERY
time, it suggests that I make a death-defying left turn, even though I could
go one street over and turn with a stoplight.

Sometimes I do choose to make that left turn myself, though. In light traffic
(middle of the night, etc.), it's easy and it's faster. In heavy traffic, it
can be impossible.

If only they had access to traffic data, and if only they had people skilled
in algorithms and AI, they could use those two things to figure out when to
suggest (unprotected) left turns and when not to. Oh wait... they do have that
data and that expertise.

------
silasdb
That is what I do when I ride my bike to work. I ride a path I optimized from
the shortest route to the safest and most pleasant (and still short enough).
Good to see OSM can help us with that. I wish more people used and supported
OSM instead of Google Maps.

~~~
hkmurakami
Likewise. I previously added ~30% to my commute distance in order to increase
route safety and route beauty :)

~~~
scrumbledober
The route that google maps gives me to ride my bike to work would be close to
suicide. The route i take is basically parallel to it but a block away for 90%
of the ride. much safer, prettier, and in total probably only about 500ft
extra on a 5 mile ride.

------
asdfman123
Some software engineer on reddit developed trailrouter.com, which was designed
for runners and does a pretty good job of finding the "scenic route." I talked
with them for a bit and they set the weights so that it worked quite well from
my neighborhood.

~~~
crooked-v
I find myself wondering if there's anything like that for driving.

~~~
liamwithers
Garmin have something like this inbuilt with their motorcycle satnavs:
[https://support.garmin.com/en-
GB/?faq=AUicnXyboc23l3uop2e7oA](https://support.garmin.com/en-
GB/?faq=AUicnXyboc23l3uop2e7oA)

Used it around lots of Western & Central Europe. It's great _most_ of the
time.

------
OkGoDoIt
Is that first tool available to use somewhere? Looks like it was just a short-
lived academic research paper and not something that was actually publicly
released. I would love to try it out myself!

Walking is my favorite way to get to know a new city, and it not always easy
to determine a good way to walk by eyeballing google maps if you’re not yet
familiar with a new city.

~~~
hanniabu
Other commenters mentioned these...

* Running: [https://trailrouter.com/](https://trailrouter.com/)

* Running/Cycling: [https://www.strava.com/](https://www.strava.com/)

* Motorcycles: [https://scenicapp.space/](https://scenicapp.space/)

* Motorcycles: [https://www.motorcycleroads.com/](https://www.motorcycleroads.com/)

------
pixelcort
In Tokyo, when I have the choice between an above ground train or a below
ground option, I tend to choose the above ground choice if I have time and
it’s not too much slower. This way I can enjoy the view and avoid the subway
tunnel noise. I’d love software that would factor these things in too.

------
kylek
Immediate thought on reading the title-

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desire_path](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desire_path)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DesirePath/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DesirePath/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DesirePaths/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DesirePaths/)

------
karussell
The system is open source
[https://github.com/GIScience/openrouteservice](https://github.com/GIScience/openrouteservice)
(UI at [http://maps.openrouteservice.org](http://maps.openrouteservice.org)
also shown in the screenshots)

The system is based on the open source GraphHopper routing engine
[https://github.com/graphhopper/graphhopper](https://github.com/graphhopper/graphhopper)
(UI at [https://graphhopper.com/maps/](https://graphhopper.com/maps/) and
integrated on [https://osm.org](https://osm.org))

So you can easily contribute to data ([https://osm.org](https://osm.org)) or
to one of these open source engines to achieve what you prefer.

Personally I have the feeling that especially for walking and cycling they are
already better in many areas than Google or similar but as a co-founder of
GraphHopper I might be influenced ;)

------
hammock
When a long distance girlfriend came to visit in SF, this feature would have
been really handy. Instead, her first impression was the worst of the Mission
and she ended up hating the city.

------
dariusj18
I imagine you can load crime data to create routes that avoid areas with
certain types of crime as well.

~~~
Lammy
Microsoft won a patent for that in 2012: [http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-
Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=H...](http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-
Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=8,090,532.PN.&OS=PN/8,090,532&RS=PN/8,090,532)

And the media skewered them for it:
[https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22microsoft%22+%22avoid+ghetto%22...](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22microsoft%22+%22avoid+ghetto%22&ia=web)

~~~
dariusj18
Goddamn patents are broke as hell.

------
aorth
Cool, reminds me to check out OpenStreetMaps again.

P.S. Title should include "2012".

~~~
karussell
Why? It seems to be from 2019

------
francisofascii
I spent considerable time looking into how this could be done well. There are
numerous factors that could all be fed into an algorithm to calculate the
"pleasantness" for each segment of the pedestrian network. I had focused on
factors such as the distance between the traffic and the sidewalk, the speed
and quantity of the traffic, and the barriers between. (curbs, trees, parked
cars, etc.). Also intersections, trees, street lights, surfaces, etc. This
article mentions the use of noise which is something I had not considered.

------
Ill_ban_myself
Just want to say Google: Can we please get the option to disable left turns
onto major roadways from a side street with no stop sign for the major
roadway?

I frequently have to reroute myself due to these “shortcuts”

------
KickTheKidS
As someone who lives in a very touristy city with a lot of hot spots for crime
that locals know should be avoided, a navigation tool that knows how to take
extra factors (like safety) into consideration when path-finding would be a
real boon for the vacationers. So many times I've asked Google Maps how to get
somewhere and taken a completely different route in the interest of my own
safety, and there is no way for someone who is not local to know which areas
to avoid.

------
adriang133
Something like this is exactly what I've been looking for. I like walking both
when I visit a new city and also walk regularly every day (trying to get to
those 10k steps).

What I would like is something like google maps where I can say I want to walk
from A to B (or back to A) but take a nice route, avoiding
ugly/dangerous/crowded parts of town etc. The more configurable the better.

------
Symbiote
Years ago, I used to use Cyclestreets for this. It only work in the UK.

[https://m.cyclestreets.net/journey/#67027932/balanced](https://m.cyclestreets.net/journey/#67027932/balanced)

------
Animats
The Google version will route you past the retail outlets that have paid
Google.

------
macintux
For anyone interested in curvy driving routes, I’d recommend looking at the
Scenic app: [https://scenicapp.space/](https://scenicapp.space/)

~~~
OnlineGladiator
It seems to be iOS only :(

------
gpvos
The Dutch
[https://routeplanner.fietsersbond.nl/](https://routeplanner.fietsersbond.nl/)
(for bicycles) has had options like this for ages.

------
perl4ever
What I want is Google Maps and the shortest routes, but constrained to only
right turns, at least at intersections without lights.

------
anotheryou
i use komoot (already takes in to account the type of pavement for bycicles)
and adjust manually

