
Leadership Lessons from a Former Navy SEAL - ivorium
https://www.inc.com/bryan-adams/5-lessons-from-a-former-navy-seal-that-will-change.html
======
spodek
What is it with business media fawning over SEALs? It has nonstop SEAL
articles.

The articles all suffer from the same problem: they tell you the results,
implying that reading about them will get you the results, at least partly.

If that were the case, SEALs would just read these articles. They don't
because reading the articles doesn't get you results. Training does. It's like
expecting to get strong by reading about lifting weights.

People who want the results would do better by training. You don't have to
train like a SEAL to get helpful results in business, but you need to do more
than just read.

~~~
grecy
The US is gearing up for another war (North Korea).

Step one is convincing the citizens it's worthwhile.

They need to up the image of their military, especially their elite who are
seen as "the persona" of the military.

------
gadders
Reading this bit:

During a competitive boat race in Navy SEALs BUDS training, six teams competed
for victory. After the first five races, there was a clear split: Team A
placed first after every single race, and Team F had finished dead last. Jocko
and the other instructors wanted to try something: what would happen if they
took the group leader from Team A and put him in Team F's boat?

Guess what? Team F won the next race. And the next. And the next. See, it
wasn't because the crew weren't good enough. It's because the new leader in
Team F's boat wouldn't tolerate anything but the best. He set a new
performance standard through his action and lifted the achievements of those
around him.

I was reminded of the Athenians in Sicily during the Peloponnesian War. The
Sicilians were being badly beaten by the Athenians, and in desperation they
appealed to Sparta for help. Sparta didn't send thousands of troops but one
general, Gylippus
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gylippus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gylippus)).
That pretty much did for Athens in Sicily.

~~~
jaclaz
>Reading this bit: ...

Sure, that of Gylippus is a very good historical example, but it simply
doesn't fit.

I mean, Gylippus came from another society (Sparta) evidently better at
educating their generals and soldiers.

Here we have someone that is giving advice on how to become good leaders, and
he gives as an example the good leader of Team A and the bad leader of team F.

The only issue being that BOTH the team leaders were instructed by the same
people and with the same methods, so if these methods were so good, there
shouldn't be such a bad leader in team F.

~~~
gadders
That's one message to take from it. What I was trying to do though was give
another historical example where good leadership made all the difference to a
team (army) outcome.

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josephcooney
Jocko's podcast is pretty good. The recent one with Harley Flanagan was a bit
of an eye opener. [http://jockopodcast2.com/2017/05/10/74-hard-times-
violence-d...](http://jockopodcast2.com/2017/05/10/74-hard-times-violence-
death-darkness-the-cro-mags-redemption-hardcore-life-w-harley-flanagan/)

~~~
0xJRS
I really like his channel. Some episodes are boring and the books are kind of
long when he reads in the beginning but overall I like them. Love the Q/A
episodes though. My favorite episode for anyone who wants to just check it out
is 69 - The Real Top Gun.

------
throwaway2016a
One piece is probably relevant in war but not as much in tech companies:

> Good leaders don't make excuses, they find a way to win

In war, if you lose a battle people on your team die. In tech, if you lose you
hopefully learned a valuable lesson you can take into the next battle. All you
lost was money (and runway probably).

Granted, the industry's obsession with "failure is good" may be taken a little
bit too far sometimes. You have to win at least part of the time or you go out
of business.

~~~
ryanx435
In war, often if you win a battle people on your team die.

and yet both war and tech leadership is the same: driving a group of humans to
work together towards a common goal.

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fapjacks
You can get these lessons in the regular Navy, I'm assuming, since you can get
these lessons in the regular Army. You get a free pair of boots, too.

~~~
dancryer
Really, any branch of the military in any country in the world. They all teach
the same.

~~~
fapjacks
Sure, totally. This was my sort of sarcastic attempt at recruiting. People
seem enamored by the things taught by individuals with these credentials, and
I always like to plug the military as a school for these leadership concepts,
because that's really what the military does. I suggest to anybody in their
20s or early 30s that is keenly interested in learning this kind of thing (and
applying it) to look at a short enlistment in the military. No need to drop
everything you're doing, either: The reserves let you live your "normal"
everyday life while serving. I successfully ran a handful of businesses over
the course of my enlistment, and definitely have the Army to thank for filling
in the blanks where it was needed.

~~~
dancryer
Ha - Sorry if I sounded confrontational... I was actually agreeing with you.

As it happens, another great place to learn these skills is by volunteering
with youth military cadet forces (in the UK, the Army, Air or Sea cadets.) I'm
not sure how prevalent these are in the US? (I guess this is an example:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Cadet_Alliance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Cadet_Alliance))

------
pshirali
I agree with the comments from @ryanx435 and @bitexploder.

Leadership is definitely something that draws parallels across all
professions. The toughest realms for leadership are definitely amongst those
where life is at risk or the stakes are high. Military is just one such
example. However, you may also consider several other scenarios which demand
exemplary leadership: like hostage negotiations, standoffs, medical relief,
natural disaster & calamity management, space missions etc.

A lot of material on such subjects provide insight into how good leaders
managed the best outcome for their teams, while facing immense odds. How such
stuff applies to your field of work, or your thoughts on leadership is
entirely upto you.

The intent however is that the reader/listener is inspired enough to rise
against odds and find the inner will to resolve the task at hand (in their own
field, whatever it may be), while also ensuring that the team involved has
improved trust, inspiration and motivation as an outcome.

Here are some videos I find inspiring. I'm from India. These are by the Indian
military and special forces, on similar lines to those of the article above.
They give great insight into the challenges, thought process and leadership by
example.

1\. TEDx - Capt. Raghu Raman - How the armed forces do it.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ-
IBRGfJyY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ-IBRGfJyY)

2\. Attributes of leadership - by Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw This was a talk
addressing students. This talk discusses some fundamental attributes of
leadership.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSvLFPFXjc8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSvLFPFXjc8)

3\. An account of the Kargil War - by Col. Lalit Rai This video is slightly
long. However it is a great account of leadership at its finest, and how
exceptional results can be achieved by leading from the front.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1rIkwAoZGg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1rIkwAoZGg)

------
mbrodersen
Here we go. Yet another "the workplace is like a combat zone and we should all
be SEAL's" fawning article. No it isn't. And no we shouldn't. I most
definitely can't do the job of a SEAL. And SEAL's most definitely can't do my
job (developing software that run airlines). And the 5 "leadership skills" the
article waffle on about? That is leadership 101. The same kind of obvious
common sense stuff you learn from any management consultant wanna-be. On top
of that, I actually had a manager years ago who was an ex-special operations
whatever guy. He was the most incompetent manager I have ever had. And he had
some stiff competition.

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kikimaru
>When your life is on the line, you have to know why you're fighting

Pretty ironic, considering they're talking about the Iraq War (an invasion
founded on lies & deceit)

~~~
ryanx435
if you'd ever actually listened to Jocko's podcast you'd know that often the
reason soldiers fight is for their brother next to them.

The reasons that they enlist/join up in the first place, however, are unique
to each individual. After joining up it is often out of the individual
soldiers control about if they are sent to war or not.

------
ryanx435
Jocko has a wonderful podcast where he reads exerts from various historical
military auto/biographies. He really focuses on the extreme realities and
hardships of war, and how good leadership is often the key ingredient that can
keep a unit operating and keep their soldiers alive.

it is most definitely worth a listen or three

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thinkfurther
The real leaders in a war of aggression are those who don't show up or fight
on the other side. "Leadership" and "excellence" and all that wank is really
just that, wank. It's a compensation price for those who got broken as kid and
never mustered any resolve _worth_ a crap later on.

> _He who joyfully marches to music rank and file, has already earned my
> contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the
> spinal cord would surely suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be
> done away with at once. Heroism at command, how violently I hate all this,
> how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be
> a part of so base an action. It is my conviction that killing under the
> cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder._

\-- Albert Einstein

Prove me wrong. Me, directly, instead of hiding behind each other. In other
words: lead, follow, or get out of the fucking way.

~~~
arethuza
Eistein apparently wrote that in 1931 - but in 1939 when faced with the
appalling prospect of a nuclear armed Nazi Germany he co-authored a letter to
FDR with Leo Szilard recommending that the US research atomic weapons.

I'm not disagreeing with your sentiment, war is literally hell and the people
I know who feel this more strongly are combat veterans, but outright pacifism
in the face of a relentless aggressor like the Nazis would have achieved
nothing but utter disaster and a "sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age".

Edit: From my own perspective I think our potentially fatal weakness as a
species is how easy we are to lead. With a powerful enough leader people will
do _anything_ \- good or bad.

~~~
thinkfurther
> he co-authored a letter to FDR with Leo Szilard recommending that the US
> research atomic weapons.

That should clue you in about how this has nothing to do with "pacifism". It
would be more pacifistic to not express disgust than to express it, and it
would be more pacifistic for me to not comment. Yet here we are.

To oppose death and its apprentices, you do NOT have to march in rank and
file, and you DON'T need "heroism on command". You have to organize, but there
is nothing there that cannot spring from strength and cooperation. It doesn't
have to be weakness and obedience under the guise of "leadership" and "team
spirit".

~~~
beaconstudios
but leadership doesn't demand obedience, it earns it. A good leader sets an
example that others _want_ to follow, they don't shout orders at people with
no justification for following them. In fact, one of the traits mentioned in
the article is that an effective leader tells their people __why __they are
doing what they are doing, which is much more humanistic than the
"""leadership""" expressed in most large organisations (which is really just
superficial authority, rather than leadership).

> You have to organize, but there is nothing there that cannot spring from
> strength and cooperation

Even spontaneous militias (and civilian groups) have leaders.

~~~
thinkfurther
> A good leader sets an example that others want to follow

So does any random decent person, no leadership or subordination required.

> one of the traits mentioned in the article is that an effective leader tells
> their people why they are doing what they are doing,

Except they don't. They are repeating the rationalizations and their weak-ass
half-truths that were hammered into their head. I doubt this guy told his men
that they're there to control oil and whatnot.

> Even spontaneous militias (and civilian groups) have leaders.

Except the second they're unfit, they have nothing to say anymore. Because it
arises naturally. Compare to the military where disobeying orders doesn't
result in "Oh well, I should have made you _want_ to do this, it's my fault
you don't want to do it. Don't worry, we're cool."

~~~
beaconstudios
I think your hostility towards the military is getting in the way of
discussing these ideas as they would apply outside the military. Just because
the failure mode of a military leader isn't the same as a civilian leader,
doesn't mean that advice for actually-beneficial leadership in the military
doesn't apply to civilian life.

~~~
thinkfurther
> I think your hostility towards the military is getting in the way of
> discussing these ideas

No, your unwillingness to address something like this does:

> Except the second they're unfit, they have nothing to say anymore. Because
> it arises naturally. Compare to the military where disobeying orders doesn't
> result in "Oh well, I should have made you want to do this, it's my fault
> you don't want to do it. Don't worry, we're cool."

My hostility doesn't keep me from speaking my mind, it's your excuse to not
respond to it, and you're welcome to it. I'm hostile to water so I can look
fire in the eye.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjxcWKa4sow&t=22m40s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjxcWKa4sow&t=22m40s)

You can pry my connection to the innocent from my cold, dead hands, and I will
not sabotage it by being too friendly to those who lick boots.

