

Two Mexicans face 30 Years in Jail for a Tweet  - suprgeek
http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/two-mexicans-face-30-years-for-tweet-131312

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pessimizer
Mexico doesn't have freedom of speech. According to the constitution, speech
can be restricted if it offends good morals, incites crime, disturbs the
public order, or disrespects private lives, morals, and the public peace. In
the 1930s, laws were added that restricted speech that insulted national
symbols, particularly the flag and the national anthem.

(Articulos 6 y 7)

[http://es.wikisource.org/wiki/Constituci%C3%B3n_Pol%C3%ADtic...](http://es.wikisource.org/wiki/Constituci%C3%B3n_Pol%C3%ADtica_de_los_Estados_Unidos_Mexicanos)

In 2008, a poet was found guilty by the Supreme Court and given a token fine
for a poem.

<http://banderasnews.com/0805/edat-poetfined.htm>

~~~
huherto
This is obviously an attempt to test the constitution. In Mexico the flag is
almost considered sacred. This is pretty much the same as burning flags in the
U.S. and you have to decide which value is bigger. Freedom of speech of the
the flag.

~~~
pessimizer
The major difference between disrespecting the flag in Mexico and burning the
flag in the US is that burning the flag in the US is legal.

------
tzs
No, they face jail time for spreading a false story that caused a panic.
Twitter just happens to be the mechanism they used. They'd be facing the same
consequences if they had used radio, or the telephone, or skywriting.

~~~
megablast
Unlikely they would have been in trouble for using a telephone.

~~~
adgar
If they had called an equal number of people and spread the false rumor, you
bet your ass they would.

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RobertHubert
Its out of control down there! 30 years for a tweet (despite the panic it
caused) while drug lords roam around like kings... c'mon people, twitter is
not your primary source of news for potential emergencies of this caliber. But
yeah the story is a bit fuzzy on some of the details. eh.

~~~
gaius
Don't fixate on that it was "a tweet". This is the classic shouting fire in a
crowded theatre scenario.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_thea...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_theater)

~~~
jrockway
Actually, it's more like the classic "broadcasting that aliens are invading
New Jersey" scenario.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_of_the_Worlds_(radio_dr...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_of_the_Worlds_\(radio_drama\))

~~~
iaskwhy
It's almost like that but times have changed. In 1938 it was mainly a
broadcast of a message which then wasn't easy to broadcast again by the
people. Nowadays you broadcast something and in a couple of minutes it can
reach the whole country just because of re-tweets and mobile messages. The end
result can be a good number of times worse because of this.

~~~
jrockway
We had all better stop talking, just in case someone overreacts to something
we say. Fiction writers, especially, take note.

~~~
iaskwhy
Or maybe we should think twice about saying things like "your kids are being
killed at school". I am open to suggestions but I have never heard about a
book causing mayhem in a couple of minutes.

~~~
jrockway
The reason why is that people don't expect to trust books. Open a random book
at the bookstore, and it's probably a story that the author made up. Twitter
is the same way, but people don't realize this yet.

I don't see why authors should be held responsible for their readers'
stupidity, though.

------
robryan
I can kind of understand that the original person was somewhat in the wrong
(although to a much lesser degree) but not the person relaying the message.
Journalists do this kind of thing all the time, report something that later
turns out to be wrong.

------
buyx
A similar thing happened last week in Johannesburg. Our ruling party is
conducting a long overdue purge of its Youth League, and there was a rent-a-
crowd bussed in by the targeted faction, outside the party HQ in central
Johannesburg, that threw some stones at police and reporters. However, on
Twitter, I saw a rumour that stones were being thrown on a main road in the
rich northern suburbs. The rumour spread on Twitter despite almost immediate
denials.

Although panic didn't take hold, because of limited Twitter penetration, and
because the idea that the stone throwing jumped 20 km northwards into white
suburbia probably set off BS detectors, it could have gotten out of hand fast.
In fact, I expect a major social-networking fed panic to happen here soon
enough.

When someone says "I confirm", it means that they have personally seen or
heard something. I have very little sympathy for the person who created the
original tweet. A bit more for the person who retweeted. In both cases 30
years is too harsh, but there do need to be consequences for creating chaos on
such a large scale.

------
andresmh
Here is something I wrote about the events:
[http://socialmediacollective.org/2011/08/31/shouting-fire-
in...](http://socialmediacollective.org/2011/08/31/shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-
hashtag/)

------
waitwhat
He shouted "Fire!" in a crowded theatre.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_thea...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_theater)

~~~
wnight
Which is what you want someone to do if they even think there's a fire. Even
if they're only relaying the news without checking.

Imagine if I a guy came rushing out of the bathroom shouting 'Fire' and a
bunch of people went in the check before anyone would evacuate. Obviously many
more people could die. The downside? One unnecessary evacuation that probably
needed practice anyways.

It seems like the world is full of authoritarians though, seeking to punish
everyone for everything.

~~~
eneveu
What about the trampled people who die during the evacuation?

~~~
wnight
I've been through 30+ unexpected fire alarms. At home, school, work, the
library, at friend's apartment buildings, etc. In all these times nobody has
been hurt by the crowd at all, let alone killed.

Maybe it's a Canadian thing?

~~~
eneveu
I'm not saying it happens all the time, but it could happen, especially in a
packed room, such as a theater. If death results from an intentional false
alarm, I believe the culprit should be punished, and we should discourage such
behavior.

Of course, we shouldn't punish people who genuinely thought there was a fire.
We definitely should encourage people to give the alarm when needed.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_alarm>

"Intentional false alarms of any kind, especially through emergency
notification systems, are very serious criminal offenses, and can result in
very severe legal punishments."

~~~
wnight
>>>> Even if they're only relaying the news without checking.

Dunno if you recognize that, but it's my premise from earlier. In it I was
talking about a scenario like the one in Mexico is thought to be - a re-
tweeter, not a rumor creator.

~~~
eneveu
I think we are actually in agreement on this. It's wrong to punish people who
genuinely thought there was a fire, or who relayed a reasonably plausible
alarm without checking.

My initial comment wasn't an attempt to totally rebute yours, and I should
have made that clear. I was focusing on:

>>>The downside? One unnecessary evacuation that probably needed practice
anyways.

You seemed to consider the unnecessary evacuation as a minor perturbation. I
pointed out that such an evacuation is not 100% risk-free.

Of course, nothing is 100% risk-free, and we need to take this into account
when doing risk analysis. After our discussion, I guess the risk of accidents
during an unnecessary evacuation might actually be lower than the risk of
having people not raising the alarm when needed (due to a fear of being
punished if it turns out they were wrong). But this risk still needs to be
weighed when considering this problem.

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damncabbage
The story mentions "re-tweeting". Did they copy a message and stick "RT" on
the front, or did they just hit the "Retweet" link?

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AndrewMoffat
Crazy stuff...I can see both sides of the argument, and they both seem pretty
strong. I wonder what legislation will come from this.

