
Rediscovering My Daughter Through Instagram - spunker540
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/08/opinion/sunday/parenting-instagram-adolescence.html
======
nickysielicki
Never let anyone tell you that our current standard of "normal" is normal.
It's only the pressures of the world that make teenagers retract from their
parents.

Every emotion you've ever felt has been developed, whether by God or by
hundreds of thousands of years of natural selection. Conscious thought may
deliver us to emotion, but the emotion that you arrive at is something that
has always been inside of you. When feel something isn't right, it's a good
indicator that something isn't the way it's supposed to be. There's no reason
that the world would be made in a way where mothers of teenage daughters are
supposed to be miserable and shut out. There's no reason that the transition
of growing from a baby to becoming an adult should not be smooth and
untraumatic for all involved parties. What is the evolutionary advantage of
making mothers miserable as a necessary part of producing offspring?

The idea that the family has become such a secondary consideration in modern
society, to the point that this mother is advocating to others mothers about
the opportunity to vicariously know your own child via the Internet... It's
nothing short of heartbreaking.

Nothing is more certain in my mind than the idea that it doesn't have to be
this way, and historically has not been this way. Kids have been sexualized
and have to grow up too quickly. Kids have been made into tiny workers that do
busy work for most of their childhood, away from their parents, because both
parents have to work.

It's dystopian, disgusting and perverted

~~~
throwvet90
> Kids have been sexualized and have to grow up too quickly. Kids have been
> made into tiny workers that do busy work for most of their childhood, away
> from their parents, because both parents have to work.

> It's dystopian, disgusting and perverted

Correct me if I'm wrong, but for most of history, weren't "kids" already
married and working to support a family when they were in their teens?

I know my grandparents, my great-grandparents, and a few before them were
married before they turned 18. And two of my grandparents told me they worked
at a factory when they were around 7!

Add to the fact that if you got married and then moved to another state, it
could be years before you see your parents again.

After my paternal great-grandmother got married at 16 and moved across the
country, she never saw her parents again. They did exchange letters but that
was it. And according to my grandfather (her son), it was pretty common.

~~~
Nasrudith
Yeah this is very not new at all. Before industrialization they were tiny
workers that did actual work on the farm when both parents were working. Those
lucky enough to be nobility were trained from a young age in the various areas
a noble needed to know.

Marriages tended to be a bit older among peasants just because there was 'less
of a point' but nobility had marriages at 12 or so - and not even always with
a comparable age partner. Certainly not stating that this is /right/ but the
point is that normal doesn't really mean much and don't look to the past for
arcadia.

Really historically if anything kids are growing up 'slower' than they were
for centuries - and that is a far better adaptation to our current needs - we
need more skilled specialist work outproduces manual labor thousand fold.

~~~
Izkata
And beyond all that, puberty is when our bodies start telling us we're adults,
while society tells us we're not. A large part of teenage rebellion seems to
stem from that disconnect.

------
dorkwood
The author's attempt to connect with her daughter seemed obviously misguided
to me.

Upon discovering that her daughter -- a budding guitar player -- liked
listening to one of the same songs she did, she thought it would be wise to
demonstrate that she, the experienced adult, already knew how to play that
particular song on the guitar. Next, she offered to teach her daughter how to
play it herself, robbing her of any opportunity to a) learn the song on her
own, and b) decide for herself that it was a song she wanted to learn in the
first place.

I think a lot of parents could do with a bit more empathy for their teenage
children. Teenagers are developing newfound desires for autonomy and mastery,
but still feel largely trapped by their circumstances. It's no wonder they
lock themselves in their rooms -- it's the only environment they have any
control over.

~~~
silveroriole
Yes. I’m nearly 30 and my mother still has the power to instantly discourage
any hobby I’m picking up by spamming me with tips, telling me the equipment
I’ve bought is no good and I should buy what she has, and insisting on
“showing me how it’s done”. That’s not bonding with your child, it’s
overpowering your child. It’s subtly telling them that you, the parent, are
all-knowing and all-powerful and you’ll never be impressed because you can
always do better than your child. It’s asking the child to be impressed by you
instead.

------
lkdjjdjjjdskjd
Discovering the fake perfected Instagram version of her daughter.

Maybe she couldn't deal with the not-so-perfect normal life daughter, and that
is why said daughter shut her out.

Maybe not - but after "ruining" the Led Zeppelin song for he daughter, now she
went after the one other thing that seems to make her daughter happy, which is
Instagram. What if that article now gives her daughter unwanted fame and ruins
that part of her life, too? Maybe it is still about control, not participating
in someone's life?

~~~
0db532a0
If the daughter thinks that a song is suddenly uncool or ruined just because
her mum liked it when she was younger and wanted to share that with her, then
pardon my French, but the daughter sounds like a bit of a cunt. I’m sure there
are a lot of people here who have picked up some top tunes from their parents.

Of course we don’t see the full picture here, but I think it’s great that the
mum sat down to play a tune that her daughter likes on the guitar.

~~~
Izkata
My perspective of the article, which seems to have not even crossed your mind:
The mother's actions aren't those of someone trying to understand her
daughter, but instead co-opt her daughter's interests to make it all about
herself instead of her daughter.

It's not so much that it's "uncool" or "ruined", but that her mother isn't
allowing her to find her own identity, trying to pull her back into defining
herself in terms of her mother. And she doesn't want to be just her mother's
add-on.

------
taysic
Wow that was beautifully written.

------
konart
>A few months ago she cued up “The Rain Song” by Led Zeppelin, one of my
favorites when I was her age.

What a nice family!

------
warent
"I had never asked to see Paulina’s feed. I didn’t even know the name she
used."

I think therein lies a big part of the problem. She's feeling rejected that
her 15 year old daughter won't listen to her acoustic cover of some band from
her generation, but then doesn't express interest in this huge part of her
daughter's generation.

I don't have children so this is just armchair/backseat parenting which I
understand is much easier from the sidelines. That being said, it seems very
evident to me that it would probably help her tremendously if she would update
herself with pop culture and technology a little bit to make herself a more
accessible and relatable to her daughter, because playing music from yester-
generation is only going to make herself seem more foreign and distant (in
this particular scenario)

~~~
ksdale
I think you nailed it from the armchair. My parents and my wife’s parents
reminisce fondly about evenings spent playing cards and singing songs with
their families growing up, and they’re sad that those things aren’t much a
part of our culture any more (at least not in our small circle of the world).
The other night though, my wife and I were playing Stardew Valley multiplayer
with two of our young children and it hit me that we had basically organically
stumbled upon family game night just from trying to do things that the kids
were interested in as much as us that also involve some interaction with each
other (as opposed to say, watching the same TV show next to each other).

~~~
pm90
Have a big upvote from me. Your family sounds awesome, and, I guess, just the
kind of family that I wanted growing up. A family that would be as interested
in the world of Harry Potter and Tolkein as I was. Or in the music I found
interesting.

I really like this style of parenting that I see here in the US where children
are not treated "childishly"; are actually listened to and the parents try and
build a relationship with their children by engaging in activities that all
enjoy.

------
kiliantics
This seems mostly like a not-so-humblebrag about her daughter than anything
else. Child of NYTimes editor and journalist in Brooklyn has 1000 followers on
instagram. Real big news.

~~~
swelz
It's more of her having an emotional discovery of how she can still see and
view her daughter's life, even if she hasn't figured out how to be an active
participant yet. Sure she used her position to write about it and throw it up
on NYT but the bigger point is that it could help many parents who have
similar issues find some solace, or maybe another avenue to reconnect with
their teenager's life. I think this is something that resonates with those who
have children that are pulling away.

------
fouc
Millennials - the generation of photographers, because of smartphones and
instagram.

Does anyone else get irritated when their friends feel obligated to whip out
their phone to take pictures when you're out and about in new locations?

~~~
Swizec
As one of those friends: I’m sorry I enjoy your company and want to cherish it
as a good memory.

~~~
rootusrootus
It depends on what you're taking pictures of. A lot of people seem to snap
pictures of landscape, with or without other strangers in it. Those are the
kind of pictures that aren't really durably interesting over the long haul.
For well known places you can always find a pro who did a wonderful job
capturing it. Now, if you're taking pictures of yourself and/or your friends,
that makes perfect sense to me. As long as it doesn't get in the way of
actually enjoying the experience.

~~~
bmiranda
Landscape pictures can serve as a reminder of what you were doing, a sort of
diary. Sure, you could find professional photos, but they won't be as rooted
in your memory.

By looking at an old photo you remember where you were, what you were doing,
and _why_ you decided to take the photo.

In other words, while a pro may be able to capture the location better, they
won't capture your memory of visiting it as well.

~~~
hndamien
Also the meta information is nice.

------
bruxis
I must be extremely disconnected from this author's perception of the world
(and their relationship with their daughter).

This quote at the very top of the article really _grinds my gears_ : "Few
things are more painful than loving a 15-year-old girl, particularly when she
is your child."

The rest of the article isn't as catchy, but reads a lot like a very long
(15-year) case of postpartum depression.

~~~
dang
Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially when mixed with rage. None of
us, including you I'm sure, wants HN to be the kind of place where people just
secrete unfiltered bile.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

