
My former employer Opera Software has filed a lawsuit against me - sverrejoh
http://trondblog.tumblr.com/post/49192504201/so-my-former-employer-opera-software-has-filed-a
======
malgorithms
I wish I knew someone who used Opera so I could ask them to start boycotting
it.

~~~
Osiris
I use Opera on the desktop and on my mobile devices. So does my wife. I'm not
going to stop using it because of a lawsuit, let alone for one that has not
had any facts proven in a court.

I really don't understand why people who don't know the facts of cases like
this (i.e., you don't have an inside knowledge of the nitty-gritty), jump to
conclusions to readily. Aren't we supposed to be a community of rational,
thoughtful people that use facts and evidence to backup opinions?

Do you stop using Google products when they get sued by various government
agencies for things like collecting WiFi data? Why doesn't Google get the
benefit of your doubt but not other companies?

~~~
coldtea
> _I use Opera on the desktop and on my mobile devices. So does my wife._

OK. We just need to find the other 10.

Why do people get out of their way to use some marginal browser when there
better both proprietary and open source options available?

Just to add to the web another slightly incompatible rendering engine? Or do
they really like the gimmicky extras that Opera offers that much?

~~~
sgift
> Why do people get out of their way to use some marginal browser when there
> better both proprietary and open source options available?

This is simple: None are available (for me). They are (take your pick for your
specific browser):

    
    
      - Slow
      - Memory-inefficient (i.e. they either use too much memory when I need it for other tasks or they use not enough when I don't need it and they could use it to provide a better experience, e.g. faster tab switching)
      - Instable for my use case (50-100 tabs)
      - Have no good mouse gestures (all the plugins for FF suck)
      - ...

~~~
coldtea
So the public for Opera is bizarro outliers? (100 tabs! Love of mouse
gestures!)

~~~
stinos
I acknowledge your point on the tabs, but not on the gestures. It provides a
genius way execute actions, probably faster than anything else. I would almost
say that is a fact, and that if you don't agree then it's because you haven't
used it.

~~~
qu4z-2
I'm still using firefox because of pentadactyl. It lets you switch to a tab by
substring search of title/url.

If you have 100 tabs open (I often do too) how do you switch to a specific tab
with mouse gestures?

(Genuinely curious; seems a shame to have to specify, but I don't want to be
misunderstood)

------
jamesaguilar
I hope he has checked this with a lawyer and that he is not giving his
adversary ammunition. Good luck.

~~~
hkmurakami
I am honestly surprised that Mozilla's legal counsel has not stepped in
already to offer advice and guidance. (this post is something that such an
intervention most likely would have stopped)

~~~
DannyBee
They probably are, just not directly to him, but to his lawyers.

At least, for the US-side lawyers (I'm presuming Mozilla's US lawyers are on
this one) due to conflict-of-interest rules, they would not be able to step in
to offer advice and guidance to him directly, because the representation would
probably be adverse to Mozilla's interests.

The rule in most states (based on the ABA model rules) is " A concurrent
conflict of interest exists if: (1) the representation of one client will be
directly adverse to another client; or (2) there is a significant risk that
the representation of one or more clients will be materially limited by the
lawyer's responsibilities to another client , a former client or a third
person or by a personal interest of the lawyer."

Even if you don't believe #1 applies, #2 definitely applies.

Norway may have different rules, but the local Mozilla lawyers are bound by
their local state bars, where this rule (or some variant) would apply. I've
avoided discussion of whether this conflict could be consented to by him, etc,
as it varies from state state

This of course, only applies directly. They can and probably _are_ talking
with his lawyers, just not advising him directly.

~~~
marshray
It might also be a bit "adverse to Mozilla's interests" if they were less able
to hire experienced developers in the future because they got a reputation of
not sticking up for their current ones.

------
dkrich
I'll admit that I am no IP expert but I'm told that winning an IP suit is
impossibly difficult and extremely expensive. To pursue it, you really better
believe that you have a tremendous amount of upside (ie, deep pockets on the
other side) and that you have a _very_ strong case.

You might say that they are "just suing for $3.4 million" and that they might
settle out of court, but I'd bet that unless Opera has a really strong in-
house counsel in this area, this whole story will evaporate pretty soon.
Usually things like this start out because one party is pissed-off and then
once cooler heads prevail they realize it's just not worth it and move on.

Not sure what the laws are or where Opera is headquartered, though so IP laws
may be vastly different.

~~~
devcpp
They probably just want to tell their employees that sharing "trade secrets"
won't be tolerated. Nothing better for that than a lawsuit with ridiculous
amounts of money. It might fail but it sends a strong message.

Not that I don't despise this kind of practices...

------
louthy
For somebody who doesn't want to talk about the case, he sure does talk about
the case an awful lot!

~~~
hkmurakami
Might be because there's definitely an element of "the court of public
opinion" for these two consumer product companies (and given Opera's stance,
OP _must_ feel some sense of loyalty/responsibility to defending Mozilla's
name and public image)

edit: Correction by magclock. Mozilla (so far) isn't directly involved in the
suit. <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5629534>

~~~
magclock
One consumer product company and one one-man consulting company. Mozilla is
not a part of this, according to the articles.

~~~
hkmurakami
Thanks for the correction; I've added the fix to my parent comment :)

------
stormen
In Norway, it's usual for employees to sign intellectual copyright waivers for
all work done for their employers. If Trond developed parts of the CB browser
and/or other intellectual property whilst working for Opera (during office
hours), they could easily claim - and probably win - a case that parts and/or
all of the CB browser rightfully belonged to Opera Software. I haven't read
their lawsuit, I'm just saying that the case might be more complicated that
one person's blog post.

There was an (in parts) similar case to this one in Norway about Nettby.no,
the so-called "Fredrik Kristiansen vs Dagbladet" (Google it if you're
interested).

~~~
Deestan
> In Norway, it's usual for employees to sign intellectual copyright waivers
> for all work done for their employers.

Yes, but that does not seem to be what this is about. On the surface it seems
he was re-using good ideas rather than copying over actual work.

The nettby case was about outright copying source code.

~~~
Androidmeda
Re-using ideas/features he was paid for at Opera? Doesn't that make those
Opera's property?

~~~
eliasmacpherson
Only if the contract signed says so. There's usually a standard section in the
contract for this sort of thing so it really depends on that.

------
papaver
pretty sad to here this from opera. i've been an avid opera user for the last
10 years. i haven't seen as much innovation in any other browser like ive seen
in opera. from mouse gestures to tab grouping to the closed tabs list to a
million other features that were first in opera and slowly migrated to all the
other browsers. sure websites sometimes didn't render properly and no one ever
cared to properly support it, but still they were always on the cutting edge
feature wise.

although this doesn't change my stance on using opera, i hope this results in
a ousting of the current ceo.

~~~
Androidmeda
Why would the current CEO be ousted? Why are you mad at him instead of the guy
who allegedly stole Opera's business secret and sold them to a competitor?

------
nly
I find it interesting that Opera are trying to claw back revenue on old
innovations while seemingly stagnating.

The rendering engine they're dumping in favour of WebKit is fast and slick.
The number of new _user visible_ features and the rate of releases has seemed
sluggish to me for what must be 4 or 5 years.

~~~
purple_platypus
That's part of why they're dropping Presto for Blink, I think. One of the
blogs I read on it mentioned that a lot of time and money was going into
keeping Presto up to date with what developers were doing (such as ignoring
anything not webkit on mobile). Switching to Blink will give them more
resources to pump into UX.

------
crummy
Now let's hear Opera's side of the story.

~~~
jussij
Or better still, let the court hear both sides of the story and let them
decide.

------
suyash
It's ironic that both the companies which are proponet of non-profit open
source software are engaged in this battle. Opera's legal counsel need to
reassess this case, I don't think they can get $3.4million from this guy, what
is the point of going after him?

~~~
TheCoelacanth
AFAIK, Opera is in no way a proponent of non-profit or open source software.
They are a publicly traded for-profit company and their main product is
proprietary.

~~~
andreastt
Except that Opera has historically been one of the most significant proponents
for open standards, the WHATWG, and opening the web to people without internet
access. One should also not forget that Opera is now contributing, and have
already landed several patches, to the Chromium and Blink projects.

~~~
TylerE
Open Source vs Open Standards are two very different positions

~~~
mjpa
Open source you want? Here you go <https://github.com/operasoftware/dragonfly>

------
a-non-ymouse
Opera employee here. Anon for obvious reasons XD

Didn't work there when Trond did so I can't speak to his moral standing, but
there's been talk around the water cooler about the lawsuit.

Several people who worked with Trond in 2009-2010 (and even before 2006) are
still here and the impression I'm getting is that they're annoyed with Trond
for taking all the credit for the work and ignoring all the work they put into
the stuff he later handed to Mozilla.

He pretends to be the lone innovator but the truth is he got plenty of help.
He took a healthy paycheck from Opera and then turned around and handed the
results over to Mozilla.

My 2¢: He's going to lose the lawsuit.

------
fmax30
I am pretty sure that the negative PR that this lawsuit will bring more
damaging to Opera than any trade secrets.

~~~
Tomis02
Probably that was the intention.

------
hkmurakami
For Mozilla itself, other than possibly being painted in a somewhat negative
light, do they have any chance of becoming the "co-defendant" in this suit?
(They'll surely be called as a witness)

------
yekko
Time to uninstall Opera from my computer.

------
dobbsbob
You and the guys who work at Xenforo can have a my old employer is suing me
party. Curious, what idiot in management at Opera decided to MITM attack https
traffic on mobile platform for "optimizations"?

~~~
dsl
Opera Mini can't render HTML (only OPML), so they have to make the SSL
connection on your behalf from the server. This isn't exactly a MITM attack,
and from what I remember last time I played with it, they even warn you of the
implications the first time you try to view secure content.

Opera Mobile and Desktop never mess with SSL, period.

------
magclock
I think he meant to write "My company's former customer".

~~~
eliasmacpherson
I hadn't thought of that. Not only do Opera's direct employees need to watch
their steps - but contractors too. It's almost as if they want people to go
in, collect their paychecks and offer up nothing above average.

~~~
Androidmeda
Do Opera employees have to watch their steps to a greater degree than
employees in other companies? I think that if you stole trade secrets from any
other company and sold them to a competitor, they would sue you as well.

All you need to do to avoid being sued is to not sell trade secrets to
competitors.

~~~
eliasmacpherson
Well we'll see the outcome of this case, you can be sued if you didn't which
may be the case here. I haven't heard of a software dev being sued like this
before, so I would say Opera employees do have to watch their steps to a
greater agree, given there's precedent.

------
drderidder
BoycottOpera.JS :-)

<script type="text/javascript">

    
    
      if (navigator.userAgent.indexOf('Opera') !== -1) {
        alert("Hello Opera User! I encourage you to uninstall Opera and use Mozilla Firefox instead. Click OK to learn why.");
        document.location = "http://trondblog.tumblr.com/post/49192504201/so-my-former-employer-opera-software-has-filed-a"
      }
    

</script>

------
wesray
Opera, you are dead to me.

~~~
sigzero
Yes, because what he wrote is the absolute truth? We have no idea if that is
the case.

~~~
wpietri
Well, we know that the suit exists:
[http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/04/29/opera-claims-
former...](http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/04/29/opera-claims-former-
employee-gave-away-trade-secrets-to-mozilla-sues-him-for-3-4m/)

And really, that's all that he says in that note.

~~~
mcherm
Um... no, he also says that he didn't do it.

------
kriro
Do providers of other browsers that use tabs have some sort of licensing deal
with Opera? Seems like they are suing over trade secrets based on Firefox
tabs?

Why are they suing the guy and not Mozilla, why are there no lawsuits against
other companies that provide browsers?

Feels like a FU-cause-we-can type of deal.

~~~
Androidmeda
> Why are they suing the guy and not Mozilla, why are there no lawsuits
> against other companies that provide browsers?

Probably because this isn't about features that already exist, but about
features that Opera was working on and hadn't even made public yet. And this
guy sold them to Mozilla or something.

Opera never had problems with other browsers copying them once the features
were actually out, but in this case Opera's secret features were sold to
Mozilla before Opera even had a version of their own.

------
lesbaker
Honest question: How would Opera Software prove in court that Trond Hansen
stole browser ideas/feature concepts (if I'm reading it correctly)? Subpoena
Mozilla's emails? My gut says if this goes to court it will devolve into "he
said/she said".

~~~
Androidmeda
It seems pretty straightforward. Trond Hansen was apparently paid to do some
consultancy design work for Opera. After accepting his paycheck and moving on,
he decided to take the design(s) he made while at Opera, and give it to
Mozilla.

This doesn't sound like a very clever thing to do. It sounds very illegal
indeed.

~~~
eliasmacpherson
Depends on the contract he signed, and where he signed it. For example, some
contracts stipulate all work inside and outside of work hours belongs to the
employer, most others don't.

------
fern
As far as I know, the one making the accusations has to present proof. Am I
wrong? Is it so simple that saying "Oh, by the way, I believe he stole my
idea." is enough to sue someone?

No one would (Or "should" maybe) be so stupid as to go for that.

~~~
wpietri
That is enough to sue someone. It's not enough to win, but it's definitely
enough to sue.

There's some logic behind that. To prove claims like that, you may need the
power of the court to get documents or witness statements under oath. The
process is know as discovery:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_%28law%29>

Unfortunately, it also means that the party being sued has to suddenly put up
a bunch of cash to pay to defend the lawsuit. In situations where one side has
a lot more money than the other, like when a corporation sues an individual,
that can be ruinous. So it can be an effective method of bullying somebody.

~~~
claudius
> Unfortunately, it also means that the party being sued has to suddenly put
> up a bunch of cash to pay to defend the lawsuit.

In any decent legal system, you can get publicly funded lawyers if you are
unable to pay for your own, and if you win, you get your costs back anyways.

~~~
wpietri
For civil suits? Really? Which ones do that?

------
julianz
Regardless of the facts in this case, this screams to me that Opera is fucked,
they know it, and will grab anything they can on the way down. What other
conclusion could you possibly draw?

~~~
Androidmeda
It just so happens that Opera announced the financial results for the 1st
quarter today:

<http://www.newsweb.no/newsweb/search.do?messageId=326699>

At the same time, they published a report on usage of their mobile browsers:

<http://business.opera.com/smw/2013/03/>

Record profits and revenues, and 20 million new users from February to March.
Doesn't exactly look like a company in trouble to me.

But maybe you know something I don't.

------
stretchwithme
Just because something is a trade secret doesn't mean someone else can't think
of it. That's the risk you run when you don't patent an idea.

------
mrtron
This is probably a terrible idea to publish!

------
tpainton
I would say the absolute worst thing he could have done was write this
article. I'm sure his attorney will agree.

------
cmstoken
IANAL: So here's my advice: Get a lawyer.

------
iagomr
You so naughty

------
nick2021
So let me get this straight, Opera is suing you because they think you gave
away secrets. It appears they have no hard evidence, no emails, no phone
conversations, just someone talking about ideas. I would personally laugh at
them and think about all of the money I would get when they lose.

Also Opera needs your millions so that they can continue to support a piece of
software that no one uses. (Chrome FTW!)

~~~
Ixiaus
That is a myopic statement. Get off the bro-horse for a second. Opera has a
lot of users! Their software, while not oss is pretty damn good!

Whether Opera is being evil or not we don't know and can't know from one filed
lawsuits, speculation, and public retort so stop jumping on the bandwagon.

~~~
nawitus
Opera is definitely "evil" these days.

~~~
Ixiaus
That's a subjective statement - I don't know enough to actually name them
"evil" and I doubt you do too.

------
gwgarry
incredibly lame thing to do to former employees. if you can't innovate, sue!

~~~
magclock
The thing they can't agree about did not happen while this guy was an employee
of Opera Software. He was offering his consulting services as a commercial
company.

------
ttrreeww
I'm also leaving Opera for good now.

------
tipiirai
Fuck Opera. Their software sucks. Now even more.

~~~
Tomis02
Actually Opera's software the one that sucks the least in the browser market.
Sorry.

~~~
smiddereens
I've tried to get into Opera every year for over the past decade. While I
admit that they introduced many innovative features, they could never get them
"right" and their UI was always ugly and unpleasant to work with. If anything
Opera should be suing this guy for that.

~~~
Tomis02
What of the UI? It's the most customizable UI in a browser. You have skins,
themes, any element can be placed anywhere/hidden. What's the problem?

