
Refurbishing the Rancilio Silvia Espresso Machine - broabprobe
https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?46197-So-I-ve-bought-this-bucket-of-rust-and-dirt&s=7993b6edd4cd9f61b497fd528bdaa664
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ereyes01
Nice work to OP. There's so many super high quality espresso machines out
there that will outlive me. When one of those classic machines is paired with
a quality grinder and fresh beans, you will be brewing coffee better than many
coffee shops (especially the chains).

Around 5 years ago I restored a La Pavoni Europiccola manual lever espresso
machine to working order. I bought it off of a "parts only" ebay listing for
$200. It turns out it just needed new grouphead and base gaskets, some
rustoleum, and some simple electrical work (new power switch and thermostat).
After getting over the initial learning curve, this machine has consistently
given me some amazing espresso shots, all while on a tight budget.

If you're interested in seeing more of these kinds of restorations, check out
these videos from the Orphan Espresso guy, who is incredibly skilled:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_Ymz8YJpcE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_Ymz8YJpcE)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_k-08sVlPw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_k-08sVlPw)

~~~
abakker
As the owner of an older europiccola and a quick mill qm67, I've been eying
this: [https://www.flairespresso.com](https://www.flairespresso.com) which
seems really need. the europiccola always struggled with managing
steaming/overheating issues when doing multiple beverages. (Boiler was small),
so I got the QM67. But this seems like it might be perfect for the times when
you want to make just one shot.

~~~
arghnoname
I have a flair, a temperature controlled kettle, and a bellman stovetop
steamer. The grinder I have was good for pour-overs, but isn't really up to
espressos, but even so the espressos and cappuccinos I've been able to produce
make my kitchen my favorite place to go to get caffeinated.

More often than not I'll make multiple beverages with it in a row. It's good
enough that I'm frankly worried that when I finally upgrade to a proper
machine it won't feel worth it. I had been looking forward to getting my fancy
espresso machine eventually, so this is weirdly disappointing.

~~~
theCodeStig
FWIW, I have a proper espresso machine, and I’ve considered downgrading to a
Flair.

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carlob
I'm from Italy and it's the first time I see this brand. Anyone could explain
why it costs an order of magnitude more than a Delonghi with similar specs?

~~~
Bokanovsky
Rancilio primarily make coffee machines for coffee shops. The Siliva is a cut
down version of a shop coffee machine. It's targeted for home enthusiast or a
place expecting to make the occasional coffee.

If you compare it to a regular home coffee machine the Rancilio contains more
metal. The portafilter (the thing with the handle that contains the basket
where the coffee grinds are put) is the same as their shop grade machines.
It's big and heavy and feels solid like it'll last a long time. While if you
compare the portafilter of a regular home coffee machine they often feel cheap
and flimsy. The switches on the front feel industrial too. With the exception
of a few bits (as noted in the article) the exterior is mainly stainless
steel. While other home coffee machines at similar price point (and above) are
far more plasticy.

The Siliva is often a good introduction for home coffee enthusiasts and
hardware hackers alike. They're often recommended on coffee snob forums as a
result. They're fairly ubiquitous so getting parts is straight forward. IIRC
The manual contains circuit diagrams. It's easy to open and tinker with too.
The most common modification is adding a PID controller to regulate the
temperature.

The machine itself is straightforward but fills a niche. The next level up of
more expensive home enthusiast machines generally cost at least twice the
price. The next level up of coffee machine generally includes a PID and often
twin boilers, so you can use one boiler for shots and the other boiler to foam
milk. While with the Siliva as it's only got a single boiler you have to do
your shots first, then switch it over to steam mode.

If you look after Siliva it can last for 10 years or more (I've had mine that
long and it's still going on). I really want a duel boiler machine, but I'm
trying to figure out which ones are good at the moment.

It'd say a Delonghi with similar specs is aimed at someone more causal. The
kind of audience George Clooney is targeting with Nespresso. While the Siliva
is not aimed at someone who just wants a coffee. You have to learn how to make
decent coffee and for that it needs to be paired with a good grinder.

~~~
beenBoutIT
The metal content is the main difference, DeLonghi (and every other popular
home espresso machine )are almost entirely made of plastic. Boiling water in
plastic leaches harmful chemicals into the espresso and add subtle flavors
that shouldn't be there. The DeLonghi level machines are built to last a few
years and be replaced while the commercial machines can easily outlive their
owners.

~~~
smueller1234
At the same time I heard at least certain years of the Silvia used solder with
lead. _shrug_ Pick your poison?

~~~
nosianu
I had an almost unused 2012 model still lying around and had it tested by a
local government lab. I took the water sample myself (so it does not
officially count because it's not "certified") but after speaking with the
head of the lab about the procedure.

Result: _Waaaayyyy_ over the (German) limits for lead in drinking water.

I wanted to sell it but added to the post that I wanted to wait for the
results, and that I would scrap it and not sell it if there was lead. There
were several people who still wanted to buy it. As someone who has had to have
treatment with chelators, albeit against mercury, I have seen what those
academic and abstract warnings "there is no amount of lead (or mercury) that
does not do damage" mean in practice: With my (university clinic researcher)
doctor's consent I continued chelation far beyond any of the "limits" (i.e.
when tested levels had fallen below any official limits in urine or blood I
still continued, for years). It STILL had an effect, and it was recognizable
in objective symptoms, not just subjective ones.

For almost 100% of people the dangers of lead (or heavy metals or
environmental poisons in general) are way too abstract to be taken seriously.
I've given up - actually I never really seriously tried, and if so only by
short comments such as these and never to anyone in person in order to not
ruin relationships - to convince anyone. Those poisons don't make you sick in
small quantities, they just, very, _very_ gradually, make you function worse.
Since this is 100% correlated with aging, since it takes a long time, all
those effects will a) be part of your life, you got used to it gradually, b)
attributed to age. Only if you do were to do something really extreme such as
what I did (had to, was forced to by circumstances) would you be able to see a
difference. For what it's worth, my doctor too thinks this is vastly under-
recognized and a much bigger problem than even the vast majority of doctors
think. The only reason I now it was not "stress" or "age" is because a long
list of quite common ailments is completely gone now, from occasional small
localized short cramps to psoriasis to warts to only mention three common
ones.

I would not buy that machine. There are lead-free alternatives. I have a
Vibiemme Domobar (with PID). This particular machine uses copper everywhere,
even all the small parts of the E61 brewing group, which I've only ever seen
with brass parts everywhere else. I had its water tested too, no lead
whatsoever, but elevated copper - which is a non-issue (the body has far
better mechanisms to handle copper, since it's an essential metal, reflected
in the official limits in drinking water, which are several orders of
magnitude higher for copper).

~~~
q3k
> Result: Waaaayyyy over the (German) limits for lead in drinking water.

Is this a sensible comparison to make? You will likely be drinking at most
120ml (4 shots) of rancilio espresso per day, which is around 4% of your daily
~3L recommended water intake.

How high were the results, anyway?

~~~
mschuster91
> Is this a sensible comparison to make?

There is no such thing as "safe lead exposure limit".

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wired8
I've had one of these machines for ~10years and she's still going strong.
Combined with a good grinder the RC makes great coffee. The design is simple
but elegant and the end result very satisfying.

~~~
OJFord
This is exactly why I bought one: there's no shortage of people with old ones.

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nathanvanfleet
Very random that this made it to the front page. There are a lot more
interesting espresso restorations out there. [http://www.espresso-
restorations.com/GS.html](http://www.espresso-restorations.com/GS.html)

~~~
criddell
I have an E61-based machine that feels like it's at the end of its life. I
think the cam and push-rods are so worn down that the valves aren't opening
fully anymore.

I wish there were more resources dedicated to fixing stuff like this because
it feels terrible to throw it away and buy a new one (especially when a new
one is $1500 or more).

~~~
markmark
The pushrods in the e61 grouphead are easily replaceable parts that are
expected to be replaced as part of maintenance, as is the cam. The only
complexity is that "e61" covers a bunch of groupheads from different
manufacturers that require slightly different lengths, so you need to get the
right ones for your exact machine.

Here is one guide [http://coffeetimex.wikidot.com/e61-group-
servicing](http://coffeetimex.wikidot.com/e61-group-servicing) but there are
also videos on youtube.

~~~
criddell
> you need to get the right ones for your exact machine

That's my problem. I have a Nuovo Era Cuadra and it was never a very popular
machine.

~~~
markmark
You don't necessarily need the exact ones for all the parts, for some just
having the same length is enough. If you pull yours apart and measure things
you can contact someone like espressoparts.com and see if they have something
that will fit.

~~~
criddell
Yeah? Thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to take my machine apart and come
up with a list of stuff I need and see if it's worth fixing. I bought it in
2011 and used it almost every day since then, so it's definitely in need of
some attention.

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dluan
Hah - I just yesterday spent an hour disassembling my Pasquini Livietta to
figure out what was wrong with it. Replaced the group head seal and now the
thing seems to be happy again. The thing is surprisingly trusty as long as you
take care of it, and I had a thought that I bet I could keep it running until
I can pass it down to my kids.

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FroshKiller
Interesting! When I worked for a coffee roaster, there were two kinds of
people looking for the Silvia: home espresso enthusiasts with too much money
and cheapskates looking to add espresso-based drinks to their businesses.

I'm glad the poster enjoyed the project, because there's no way on Earth it
was worth the money.

~~~
detaro
So what's the recommendation to get instead, if the Silvia is too expensive?

~~~
davidgould
Breville BES920 XL. Espresso machine done in a modern way. Dual boilers, three
PID controlled heaters (boiler, steam boiler, grouphead). Makes excellent
espresso with almost no fuss, very forgiving. You still need a good grinder
with stepless control, but other than that it's super easy to dial in. This is
my third machine and by far the best. I considered an E-61 machine, but that
design dates back to the 1960s and controls temperature and extraction with
pressure-stats, cams and rods and thermal mass. The Breville is a modern
design in that it achieves these goals with micro-controllers, sensors and
actuators. I don't know if it will last the 10 years my Ponte Vecchio spring
lever did, but that took a lot of upkeep. The Breville has needed nothing for
the two years I've had it so far.

~~~
ook
Good luck!

I got a Breville Dual Boiler a few years ago and it was ok if temperamental
for 2 years and 4 months. Then it died suddenly.

I had to pay Breville ~$400 for an out of warranty repair and drop it off
personally at the local repair centre. The repair took two weeks and it died
with the same symptoms a few days after I picked it up.

Breville refused to refund me for the repair attempt and it took escalating to
get them to ship me a brand new replacement with 3 to 4 weeks estimated
shipping.

I bought a Rocket instead and when the Breville showed up a month later sold
it on Craigslist to cover a small portion of the wasted time and money.

The Rocket is much simpler but much more consistent. My wife a chef loves it
but hated the Breville.

The Rocket did cost more but with regular home maintenance and an occasional
service should last 15 to 20 years.

~~~
davidgould
Sorry to hear that. I understood some of the earlier ones had issues. I'm
hoping you were sincere with that "Good Luck!" because I really like this
machine and hope it lasts.

~~~
ook
Yes I was sincere. I enjoyed the machine, the support experience after it
failed was appalling.

~~~
davidgould
If it's any comfort that is still better than the support I got for the Ponte
Vecchio. I did all my own work, including soldering a crack in the boiler
because that was the only possibility. One vendor would not sell me parts
because they claimed to be the only "authorized" vendor and I had purchased it
elsewhere. The other sold me a series of parts over years and years, but
discontinued that a couple years ago which is what prompted me to get the
Breville. I gave the Lusso to my son and found another parts source, so it
lingers on. I'd say it was down waiting on parts at least two weeks of every
year I had it.

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andy_ppp
I had one of these and it's built like a tank and produced amazing coffee.
Sadly it couldn't come with me to Japan. Would definitely consider getting
another one at some point in the future...

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david-cako
I did a PID mod on mine when I bought it around 5 years ago and love it. Built
like a tank, and looks more commercial than similarly priced machines if that
means anything to you.

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sshanky
I have two Saeco Vienna Plus machines. These have what appears to be a pretty
decent grinder built in. The machine brews a decent shot, but the electronics
are probably not very precise (who knows the temperature, and the brew length
is controlled by a basic potentiometer that seems inconsistent). ]I wonder if
these are good candidates for some interesting hacks...Does anyone have any
experience with these? I'd love to get a Silvia but I like the idea of the
built in grinder.

~~~
snowwindwaves
I've been using one for 3 shots daily for 5 years. Paid $150 cad for it used
when it was 8 years old. Had a proper service done once. It is leaking quite
badly now, time to crack it open and find out where from!

I agree with other poster that if the grind is too fine it doesn't have the
pressure to get water through it. To be fair a super fine grind and packing a
shot in to the stove top unit also results in a lot of steam coming out the
safety pressure release valve.

~~~
lostlogin
Try a different roast too if you haven’t already. Really dark ones seem to
clog up more. I like dark roasts and lots of crema and became expert at
clogging the machine.

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dannylandau
I have a used Rancilio Silva that's in fair condition, and want to sell it,
any ideas where and for how much?

~~~
smueller1234
Single data point: I sold my 2009 model in the Netherlands for 175EUR in late
2017. Original price when new was about twice that.

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beenBoutIT
Anyone know of any good places outside of eBay for getting ahold of less
expensive fixer-uppers?

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mikorym
Where is the finished project pictures? It doesn't look like there are on the
thread.

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CamouflagedKiwi
They're on the second page, e.g.
[http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=sxf3te&s=9](http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=sxf3te&s=9)

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audiometry
Funny to see that the problem was a faulty switch. My own Rancilio Classe 6
has had at least two different switches spontaneously short/blow out. Electro-
mechanical switches are like 1930's technology...is Rancilio pushing the make-
it-cheaply effort 5% too hard?

~~~
lostlogin
I think it’s the use they get. An early one would be 20+ by now I think.
Similar age grinders from Mazzer also seem to burn out their switches. This
suites me fine as they then get sold as having burnt out motors, which I don’t
doubt can happen, but I’m yet to see it and have bought several dead. Repair,
respray and then they usually just sit in a line for months as I like them too
much.

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mwexler
I've always wondered what was in my rocky. This was great to see...

~~~
lostlogin
Open it and clean it and it transforms things. They get pretty gross inside.
Mine seemed to need tightening periodically or the grind would be too coarse.

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javiramos
Hi OP! You should consider 3D printing the grouphead plastic cover!

