

My Mac Mini - ashu
http://mattmaroon.com/?p=359

======
axod
"First you download a dmg file which, when clicked, creates a virtual drive.
On the virtual drive is the program, which you then have to drag into your
Applications folder. Then you have to unmount the virtual drive and delete the
dmg file from your desktop"

"There’s no way that anyone could guess this procedure"

You are kidding right? My wife guessed this. My 9 year old can do this. It's
brain dead simple, and makes perfect sense - you can see what stuff is there
before you install. You can read a readme sometimes before installing.

I think it helps when trying something new, to have an open mind. Instead of
just saying "eugh! this is different. It must be bad"

~~~
mrtron
_sarcasm ahead_

I have no idea how you delete applications on a Mac either. You have to go to
Applications and delete that folder you copied to your Applications directory?

It is much better having an 'uninstaller' that does a half-assed job at
removing things from the registry and cleaning up files.

Matt I realize trolling can feel good on the short term but people will give
you more respect in the long run if you are sincere.

~~~
mattmaroon
Anyone who disagrees with you must be trolling.

~~~
axod
"There's no way anyone could guess this procedure"

How is that not an obvious troll statement.

Either you're just incredibly bad at operating computers, or you wanted to get
a reaction from people and start a fight.

~~~
mattmaroon
It's a simple statement of the counterintuitiveness. That was my point. Macs
are not intuitive.

~~~
mattmaroon
The fanboys are out in force tonight.

~~~
mrtron
Anyone who disagrees with you must be a fanboy?

~~~
mattmaroon
Anyone who finds trolling in a logically coherent argument as to why the
author dislikes something is a fanboy.

~~~
mrtron
The trolling started with:

    
    
      A girl with some sort of mullethawk and a tattoo creeping up her neck asked me if I needed help and I almost said “no, but you do.” 
    

and then continued all throughout the 'logically coherent argument'. Then
continued into the posts here calling people 'fanboys'.

It really doesn't matter, I would just prefer you did it elsewhere. And to end
the conversation: Troll away, it seemed to work well on the poker blog.

~~~
mattmaroon
The first part was humor. I know humor generally requires an explanation here.

~~~
mrtron
Hah, now that is comical.

Perhaps you can't piss in people's ears here and tell them it's raining.

------
petercooper
I thought this post was satire until about 75% of the way down..

That said, his point about installing programs is spot on for people from the
Windows world. It makes sense in a UNIX-y way, but it's totally
counterintuitive if you've come from Windows. I found it odd the first time,
then grew to love it.

~~~
goofygrin
How in the hell do you think that dragging files to an "Applications" folder
is unix-y?

Ubuntu: Synaptic or "sudo apt-get install xyz" Fedora: "yum install xyz"

Certainly don't see any goofy dragging app files around here.

~~~
mrtron
Oh dear god.

Using a package manager or manually grabbing the files and building it IS
basically like dragging files to an Applications folder.

You have all your files for an app in one known spot. That's all there is
(excluding environment variables). What is non-unixy is installing a bunch of
garbage into a registry (did I mention I hate registries?).

~~~
goofygrin
No, using a package manager where you select the app you want is NOT like
dragging and dropping executables into some magic location on the filesystem.

------
alex_c
_dual monitors (which, by the way, you shouldn’t even bother attempting on a
Mac. My cofounder has to close the lid when he hooks his MBP up to a
monitor)._

Funny, my cofounder's MBP works just fine with a second monitor.

The window maximizing thing is probably my biggest single annoyance when using
a Mac. I've noticed that some people hate maximizing windows, and prefer
having them smaller and overlapping, I guess to be able to see the contents
and make switching between them easier. I'm the opposite, I need my windows
maximized - I don't ever want to deal with moving or resizing them, alt-tab or
the taskbar work just fine for me. I guess Macs work great for the first group
of people, but not for me.

~~~
jimbokun
"The window maximizing thing is probably my biggest single annoyance when
using a Mac."

I can't tell which people understand the philosophy of window maximizing on
the Mac and don't like it, and who finds the behavior just random, so let me
explain:

The Mac UI assumes the point of maximizing a window is to see all of its
content at once, so enlarging past the size at which all content is visible at
once is unnecessary. This can be nice, once you understand what it's doing and
are used to it. If you understand this and still don't like it, that is your
prerogative, too, of course.

~~~
alex_c
That does seem consistent with what I've seen, though I hadn't consciously
realized it.

I still have trouble seeing how this philosophy can work for something like
Word or even Firefox, where the content reorganizes itself to fit the window -
I could swear Macs don't always make a window full-screen in these scenarios.
And you can still move a "maximized" window, which is also annoying.

I'll keep this in mind next time and see if it helps me.

------
axod
"and what the hell is a keychain?"

Obviously if you don't know what it is, it must be bad! Don't find out what it
is, just assume it's bad :/

What the hell is a 'registry'? :P

~~~
mattmaroon
Not bad, but if I have to think about it or Google it, it's counterintuitive.
Windows just saves your passwords in the app if you tell it to. On OSX, they
save them in a keychain and require me to put in my keychain password every
time. This doesn't save me any typing.

~~~
axod
Perhaps that's why mac is just a tad more secure. Would you rather a unified
system for managing your passwords, or just have applications store them in
plaintext files?

When I switched to mac I was actually pretty impressed that such a thing
existed.

Call me a cynic, but I think you decided you hated macs way way before you
ever tried one.

~~~
mattmaroon
No, I like the mac. You misunderstood the point. I just don't think it's a
good choice for the average person.

And yeah, the keychain is more secure. It's just harder to understand at
first.

------
ssharp
Pretty common complaints about the actual OS for people who are used to
windows. You just have to get used to the idea that windows float and that
it's not really designed to have windows maximized. I was pretty used to the
interface after a month or so, I started in late 2003, so Panther was out by
then and Expose helped out a lot.

I have to disagree with running 2 monitors, I've done it for a couple years
now and have never had any usability issues.

However, the Apple store comments are pretty much dead-on. I'd rather just
order online or go to a reseller then deal with the Apple Store.

~~~
abstractbill
_it's not really designed to have windows maximized_

I've heard this line before - people say it as if something disastrous would
happen if Apple gave in and made the green '+' a maximize button... so far
nothing's coming to mind.

(btw, I haven't used windows for anything other than testing IE for about 9
years, and I still hate Apple's choice regarding the 'zoom' button).

~~~
TheWama
The disastrous thing is that it would be less useful to have a maximized
window be 10x the size of its contents. For example, IMO the behavior of
safari on maximize is just beautiful, because it's tailored to the specific
website you're viewing.

If the application is a window into your data, why make that window bigger
than necessary, thus obscuring your desktop, or some other window behind it?
That may not be disastrous, but I think its intent makes sense.

Without further explanation, I end up suspecting that when he writes: "it
almost never does what you’d want or expect it to," the emphasis is on his
expectations as a Windows user, not on what he would prefer, all things being
equal.

[and for the record, I'm speaking as an Ubuntu user, who has never owned a
mac]

~~~
abstractbill
I _want_ to obscure my desktop, and all the other windows. Why would I want
that stuff in my peripheral vision when I'm busy working?

~~~
demallien
In which case you simply hit Cmd-Shift-H (or select 'Hide Others' in the app
menu), which hides all but the active application...

Personally though, I generally just use Spaces to have different screens
containing only applications that I want to use together. So I'll have a
programming doc open in Preview, next to my XCode project window. Or I'll have
a web browser open with Textmate if I'm doing something with Rails. That way
you only have the apps that you are interested in on screen in any given
'space'.

Next quibble?

~~~
abstractbill
This is what my desktop looks like for more than 90% of the time:

<http://abstractnonsense.com/desktop.png>

If emacs wasn't taking up the whole screen, I'd have a scrollbar running down
the middle of the screen, which would be really visually distracting.

I used virtual desktops a lot back when I used Linux for my desktop os.
They're great, and I'm sure I'll use them again when I upgrade from Tiger.
But, for me at least, they're no substitute for maximization.

~~~
jrockway
Do us a favor and hit C-x 3 sometime :)

<http://jrock.us/emacs-20080420.png>

~~~
abstractbill
Heh, I'd never get anything done with all that clutter ;-)

~~~
jrockway
Yeah, that is more of a "this is possible" thing :) In "real life" i use the
same size screen, but with the right third consisting of an irc window, REPL,
and terminal; and the other two-thirds 2 or 4 files of code.

Still cluttery, I guess... but I love it ;)

------
aneesh
Sage advice from a high school friend: "If you can use Windows, you can use
Linux. If you can't, get a Mac. While you won't be able to use it either, at
least it'll look pretty."

~~~
mattmaroon
The first sentence is very incorrect. My 50 yr old aunt can use Windows. I
tried installing Myth TV on a Red Hat distro and had to call for help.

~~~
jauco
Upmodded you because i don't see why your comment points should be negative,
but let me assure you that your 50 year old aunt won't be able to install
MythTV or whatever on windows either, it depends on the app, not the OS.

~~~
wanorris
> your 50 year old aunt won't be able to install MythTV or whatever on windows
> either

Especially since MythTV only runs on Linux. :-)

~~~
mattmaroon
And she DEFINITELY won't be installing it there.

------
menloparkbum
Genius Bar is lame.

Never had a problem with dual monitors aside from the fact that now the
adaptor isn't bundled, and the DVI cable they will try to sell you first at
the Mac Store uses a pin layout that no monitor or cable sold actually uses.

The maximize button is indeed bizarre. I just maximized safari and it made the
window 2/3 the size I had it and shifted it to the left hand corner of the
screen. Then I "maximized" iTunes and it sent it into mini mode. Maximizing
iChat seems to switch the buddy window from a skinny column to a wider, but
shorter rectangle.

Not sure why installing problems is so hard, my grandma and 11 year old
cousins have no problems with this. However, every die hard windows switcher
can't seem to figure it out.

Fonts are a matter of taste and Windows users have none. But that's OK!
MySpace is the #1 social network, NASCAR is the #1 sport in America and Bill
Gates is the richest dude around. Taste doesn't really matter as much as
people who have it would like to think...

~~~
mattmaroon
It's hard because it's far more complicated than clicking an installer. I
outlined the procedure. Anyone can do it once they understand it, but how
would you ever guess to mount a virtual drive (most people wouldn't even
understand what one is) and then the rest?

~~~
menloparkbum
I think it is only hard because your brain is thinking in terms of virtual
drives and installers. For my grandma and my 11 year old cousins both types of
installs are simply clicking various things on the screen until stuff works
and are essentially equivalent.

~~~
mattmaroon
My brain is thinking in terms of click the file and click ok vs. click
something, figure out how to get the application, figure out where to drag it,
do so, then try to get rid of the original file.

Some installers make the process easier with the little window that shows you
both icons and tells you to drag the program icon to the applications icon.
That's still far more complicated than Windows, but a lot better than most Mac
programs, which don't even give you that.

~~~
boucher
DMGs auto mount by default if you use Safari (which the kind of people you're
worried about would be doing). When they do, the window also automatically
opens presenting them right away with the application.

In the best case, they could just click on it and the right thing would
happen. This works, but the results aren't what you'd expect usually, since
the app will go away once the dmg is gone. The exception to this is Delicious
Library 2 (unreleased), the only app I know of that will tell the user the app
was loaded from the disk image, and offer to put it in /Applications for you.

In the second best case, you are given the shortcut, and you manually drag it
yourself. Then you click applications, and then you click the app. Perhaps a
little convoluted.

In the worst case(and by worst I mean, worst assuming the standard default
configuration), you aren't presented with the applications folder link and you
end up dragging it anywhere -- perhaps the Desktop. But, if you do that, the
app still works! That's the beauty of the app bundle, it doesn't matter where
you launch it from.

Could the whole process be refined? Yes. And developers are actively making it
better (just like they are actively making things like upgrades better with
Sparkle). I for one, though, still think its much more friendly than any
windows installation with its ridiculous wizards, shortcuts added to four
different locations, and the mess that is the windows registry.

------
jpeterson
OK, this guy obviously went into this experience not wanting to like the mac.

First of all, installation is a no-brainer. Once you click a link for an app,
Safari downloads and automounts the dmg, leaving you with the simple task of
dragging it into the application folder. How is dragging a new application
into a folder called "Applications" counterintuitive?

Second, I've used many macs and I've never had a single problem with the dual-
screen setup. This issue was something environmental in your case, I believe.

~~~
jimbokun
"How is dragging a new application into a folder called "Applications"
counterintuitive?"

I think the larger point is, if that is the biggest usability barrier in
adopting an entirely different operating system, the Mac UI people are doing
something right.

------
ashu
Window maximising: I use some Quicksilver scripts from

[http://jon.smajda.com/blog/2007/06/30/keyboard-control-
for-m...](http://jon.smajda.com/blog/2007/06/30/keyboard-control-for-mac-os-x-
windows/)

The fact that you can use keyboard shortcuts makes this even better.

------
rms
Matt, I think you should try Ubuntu for comparison purposes.

~~~
PStamatiou
i keep thinking you're richard stallman ;-) .. was the username intended as
such?

~~~
rms
It was intended to be funny and ironic, I'm definitely not trying to
impersonate the great rms. It originated as an abbreviation for "rupert
murdoch sucks."

------
m0nty
'A girl with some sort of mullethawk and a tattoo creeping up her neck asked
me if I needed help and I almost said “no, but you do.”'

You know, that seems a pretty hostile way to (almost) talk to a stranger.
Maybe it's a cultural thing ...

~~~
m0nty
Note to self: must remember to do more group-think.

------
rob
App/package management on OS X is pretty bad, especially since there's no
automated way to uninstall stuff. Yes, I know that you drag the app to the
trash, but there's usually preference files, caches, folders in 'Application
Support', etc, that get left behind unless you use a program such as AppZapper
to get rid of them. Something like that should be built into OS X.

Although I've only used it on a server (and not a desktop), Debian/Ubuntu's
aptitude/apt-get package system is probably the easiest thing I've ever used.
It's awesome.

~~~
nertzy
AppZapper comes highly recommended: <http://appzapper.com/>

------
timcederman
Very typical response - slightly angrier, but overall the same experience I
had.

I am surprised Matt didn't notice the slicker look and feel, and far better
responsiveness of OS X. I am continually surprised at what my Mini can manage
with 512mb of RAM compared to my M1330 running Vista with 3GB.

~~~
mattmaroon
I'm not seeing that. I click just about any application to load and the little
icon bounces at the bottom for just as long as it takes to open Word on my
Vista machine (2gb RAM).

------
jacabado
"Everybody serious about doing software should make their own hardware." Steve
Jobs

That might no longer be true as PPC died, but anybody serious about doing
software should experiment Mac OS and the application ecosystem around it.
What surprised me the most was the fit between the Apple market and some
applications that have no equivalent in Windows/Unix. For me Scrivener was a
dream I had.

There's a lot to be said, and it's really interesting to compare the
platforms, but not in reply to a post of a smart guy who finds
counterintuitive to install in Mac OS.

Hey Matt you don't have to live with applications that have 20+ buttons in the
first 2 rows of the interface.

And I also think u can keep the controversy tone of your posts without being
dumb. You were in a great path.

------
ivank
I still use Windows, but run an Ubuntu VM in it for all web development. You
get the real Windows, the real Linux, everyone wins. Microsoft's investment in
fonts really shows - it's my #1 reason for sticking with the OS.

~~~
icey
You can install the Microsoft core fonts in Ubuntu. I think the package is
called msttcorefonts; but if that doesn't work for you, it's in Synaptic.

------
hs
on maximize & dual monitor

why do you have to put extra efforts when you can just use tiled wm (i use dwm
and dmenu) ? maximizing comes automatic

don't two monitors kill your focus flow? maybe you are more productive (result
from research by monitor manuf - doing repetitive stuff)

the real danger is you'll be less creative

------
icey
What's hilarious to me is that the headline under "My Mac Mini" is "Tech
World, I Am Your Master".

Master, indeed.

