
Computer History Museum Makes Eudora Email Client Source Code Available - jmiller099
https://globenewswire.com/news-release/2018/05/22/1510151/0/en/Computer-History-Museum-Makes-the-Eudora-Email-Client-Source-Code-Available-to-the-Public.html
======
jasonjayr
"Eudora was specifically designed with the idea that standards are a key to
successful adoption. Indeed, the rapid acceptance of the Internet is largely
due to the standardization process. Published standards are what allow
applications from multiple sources to cooperate with each other. Without
standards organizations would only be able to use their own applications
together, and not those from outside. Also, by allowing diversity of
implementations you achieve a much more robust software ecosystem."

\- From the "Windows Eudora Architecture.pdf" in the distribution

~~~
bdamm
This is beautiful. One of the "so obvious it's invisible" truths of the modern
age, and I nearly forgot that Eudora and other pioneers of the age were making
a somewhat risky choice to only support standard protocols and eschew the
proprietary mailers. Most of them are now long dead yet POP3, IMAP, SNMP chug
along. At the time, though, it wasn't so clear.

~~~
tinus_hn
POP3 is horribly inefficient and SNMP is a security disaster waiting to
happen. At least POP3 isn’t widely used anymore.

~~~
kps
Why is POP3 horribly inefficient? Lack of an equivalent to the IMAP COMPRESS
extension?

~~~
tinus_hn
POP3 is only efficient if you download all mail to the client and immediately
remove it from the server. But nobody does that, everyone leaves their mail on
the server. Then everytime you synchronize the server has to go through all
the mail it has to see what you don’t have, which is very inefficient if you
have 10000 mails in your inbox, like most people have these days.

It’s optimized for a usecase that doesn’t exist anymore and it will work in
the usecase that does exist while wasting a lot of resources. Truly the worst
you can have. It’d be better if it didn’t work at all.

~~~
gkya
I for one use pop3 and am really content with it. I cannot bear the idea of
keeping my personal mails on a remote server. And that of having to use a web
interface to configure splitting rules via a web interface, unable to easily
version control and undestructibly and easily test.

You seem to have a personal (!) problem with POP3. Why is that? Are you
forbidden to use IMAP because of it? Are you forced to implement a POP3
server?

~~~
tinus_hn
Clearly you’ve never had to do tech support for people that inadvertently
chose POP3 because in many systems it’s still the default selection, along
with the default behavior of deleting mails from the server as you fetch them.

What do you mean the only copy of all my mail is in some bizarro mail client
specific proprietary database? Why can’t I also read my mail on my phone? I
dropped my laptop in the toilet and now my mail is gone. Isn’t it on the
server? Why can’t I use folders? Don’t you have backups?

No, your mail is gone, because you used a protocol designed for the 90s. It’s
a great idea if you have a mail account with 10mb quota and you download your
mail to a fixed, reliable workstation and you don’t mind if you lose it all if
the disk crashes, it doesn’t happen that often. Not hardly as often as laptops
getting stolen, Windows breaking itself and phones going bust.

I’m not sure why I need to have personal problems with your pet protocol to
have an opinion on it, especially on one that stinks as much as POP3. It’s
obsolete.

~~~
gkya
> I’m not sure why I need to have personal problems with your pet protocol to
> have an opinion on it, especially on one that stinks as much as POP3. It’s
> obsolete.

Because you're trying to fight people that use it.

In another comment I write how I use it. Clearly you can lose mail with IMAP
too. There is a reason we do backups. Also, people not knowing how to use it
or you not liking to deal with these does not make a protocol obsolete.

------
coldacid
Here's the actual Computer History Museum article and links to source:
[http://www.computerhistory.org/_static/atchm/the-eudora-
emai...](http://www.computerhistory.org/_static/atchm/the-eudora-email-client-
source-code/)

------
eltoozero
In 1999-2001 when I was doing dialup tech support, running into a customer
with Eudora was a dream compared to the nightmare of basically any other
contemporary mail client around: Outlook and Outlook Express. EarthLink even
made their own abomination of a mail client called Total Access, IIRC it could
import and export Eudora dbs.

~~~
latigidigital
Don't forget Pegasus!

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_Mail](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_Mail)

~~~
brightsize
Or Email Connection!

[http://web.archive.org/web/19980212160741/http://www.email-c...](http://web.archive.org/web/19980212160741/http://www.email-
connection.com/EMCFINALQ1.html)

edit: fix link

~~~
romwell
Or, if you lived in Eastern Europe, The Bat1[1] - and it is still actively
supported!

I switched to Opera Mail because it was convenient to have the browser and
email client in one software (which is also freeware), but that went with the
Chropera move.

[1][https://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/](https://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/)

~~~
tecleandor
The Bat was quite nice! I used it for a while but finally switched to the
Japanese client "Becky Mail", ugly but quite functional. I still have some
backups in a zip drive I should restore...

~~~
krylon
> some backups in a zip drive

Hehe, I have one of those, too. But unfortunately it is an external drive, and
none of the computers I own have a parallel port...

------
edmanet
Damn. The "bad" words have been sanitized. Seeing the programmers'
frustrations as they appear in the comments enhances the experience when
viewing old code like this.

~~~
djsumdog
It's funny how in most corporate/commercial code past 2005 or 2010, you'll
rarely ever see profanity in comments. I've never put profanity, or even any
jokes, in comments. I really try to keep my professional code professional.

Even on my own OSS projects I tend not to do that anymore.

~~~
userbinator
Unfortunate that we (as a collective --- not something I _personally_ believe
in) seem to think that that is being "professional", and that it is somehow a
reason to make everything as bland and soulless as possible, and that that is
somehow better? I agree that a lot of code has lost its "character", so to
speak.

The Linux kernel still retains much of its fucks and shits, and apparently has
gained a whole lot of crap:
[https://www.vidarholen.net/contents/wordcount/](https://www.vidarholen.net/contents/wordcount/)

~~~
crispinb
It's an unfortunate loss for our conceptual heritage for the word
'professional' to have been mostly hijacked to mean something more like
'obedient', 'conformist', 'dull', 'bland', 'besuited' etc.

Once you don't have a word to express a concept, that concept can quite
quickly fall out of circulation. Professionalism was a useful part of modern
culture: it would be a shame for it to disappear from the lexicon. A horse
that's bolted, I fear.

------
jgrahamc
Oh, cool. I can finally fix the bug/feature that whenever someone replied to
an email from me they got warned about profanity because of my last name :-)

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
Could be worse: you could have graduated Summa cum laude and have the store
refuse to put that on your graduation cake!

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-
mix/wp/2018/05/2...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-
mix/wp/2018/05/22/proud-mom-orders-summa-cum-laude-cake-online-publix-censors-
it-to-summa-laude/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c7e51e71eba7)

~~~
isostatic
As long as you're not from Clitheroe or Scunthorpe

------
jmbwell
"Boolean butch; // don't call pete drag handlers in PantyTrack"

Always assume that one day, the world will see your code.

~~~
hinkley
My third boss wanted to open source some code. I got the pleasure of
witnessing our hackiest developer’s eyes go wide when he mentioned this idea.

Maybe you should stop writing code that you’re embarrassed to let other people
see. Your coworkers will thank you.

------
SyneRyder
It's under an open source license too:

 _" The transfer agreement allows CHM to publish the code under the very
liberal BSD open source license, which means that anyone can use it for either
personal or commercial purposes."_

~~~
djsumdog
I'm guessing they had to go through the code pretty carefully to make sure
they could. I'm seeing embedded PNG, zlib, qt3 and other libraries buried down
in there.

It's also interesting they have completely separate windows and mac code
bases.

~~~
josteink
> it's also interesting they have completely separate windows and mac code
> bases.

At the time I don’t really think that was uncommon.

I mean, you barely had FOSS portable libraries to base the core functionality
on, even before you started tackling platform specific issues.

There were different CPU architectures. Machines back then were completely
different, with each type having it’s separate types of HW devices and
connectors. Etc etc.

Literally _nothing_ were common between PCs and Macs. I’m not surprised at
all.

------
kps
To paraphrase Hoare, Eudora was not only an improvement on its predecessors,
but also on its successors. And now we can all help stamp out flying e's.

 _Edit_ : CHM has a survey for past/current Eudora users:
[https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/eudora-
poll1](https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/eudora-poll1)

------
octorian
While I was in college, during the summer of 2001, I did an internship at
Qualcomm. I was surprised to discover that they used Eudora as their internal
Email client, despite not having seen it still in use elsewhere for many
years.

Of course I found its UI frustrating enough (for reasons I barely remember
now) that I wound up installing something else to use on my workstation.

~~~
OldSchoolJohnny
Why "of course"? It was a great email client at the time.

------
mrlyc
Some years ago, Gmail changed so using Eudora with it became difficult. I've
worked out the following procedure:

after checking email fails the second time,

Server SSL Certificate Rejected pops up

click on Yes

click on Tools then Options then Checking mail

click on Last SSL Info

click on Certificate Information Manager

under Server Certificates, keep expanding until you reach the bottom one

click on it then click on Add to trusted

click on File then Check Mail

------
toyg
I applaud Qualcomm for donating all trademarks and copyrights too, which means
literally anyone can recompile it and still call it "Eudora".

Unfortunately Eudora is basically three completely different codebases
(Windows, Mac, and a rebranded Thunderbird for Linux). I guess only the
Windows one is likely to ever be revived.

~~~
kps
“The license does NOT allow you to use any of the trademarks or domain names
related to Eudora, including Eudora™, www.eudora.com, and www.eudora.org.” —
[http://www.computerhistory.org/_static/atchm/the-eudora-
emai...](http://www.computerhistory.org/_static/atchm/the-eudora-email-client-
source-code/)

~~~
toyg
It's a bit weird, just above they say "they decided not to simply grant a
license, but to transfer ownership of the code, the Eudora trademarks, the
copyrights, and the Eudora domain names to the Computer History Museum".

So it's the CHM who is barring people from using the name. The relevant clause
must be this: _" Neither the name of Computer History Museum nor the names of
its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this
software without specific prior written permission."_ Is this really "BSD
license", if the name is off-limits? This looks like an extra clause to me.
Honest question.

EDIT: also, that clause mentions the names of _contributors_ , not of the
actual software. So they would have to argue that Eudora is barred by
"contributor Eudora Inc." \-- does that company even exist anymore?

~~~
jcranmer
> Is this really "BSD license", if the name is off-limits? This looks like an
> extra clause to me.

There's actually a few licenses that are called the BSD license. In modern
terms, BSD refers to the 3-clause BSD.

However, the 3-clause BSD was not the original form. It was introduced because
the 4th clause was generally viewed as problematic. That 4th clause is:

> 4\. Neither the name of the <organization> nor the names of its contributors
> may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software
> without specific prior written permission.

This "weird" clause is actually the 4th clause of the 4-clause BSD. It's weird
because it's extremely uncommon, but it is part of a major BSD license.

~~~
kps
That clause is in the common 3-clause version. The dropped clause from 4 to 3
is the one that was originally #3,

 _3\. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software
must display the following acknowledgement: This product includes software
developed by the <organization>._

------
avar
I uploaded the code to GitHub:
[https://github.com/avar/rhqben](https://github.com/avar/rhqben)

~~~
cellularmitosis
It looks like github thinks all of the source files are a single line.

[https://github.com/avar/rhqben/blob/master/Eudora_M_source/V...](https://github.com/avar/rhqben/blob/master/Eudora_M_source/V624/Editor/Source/Editor%20Source/draw.c)

~~~
kps
Macs use(d) CR as line terminator, not LF (*nix) or CR LF (Windows).

------
drelihan
I still use Eudora... heavily .... maybe this is a sign

~~~
newnewpdro
> maybe this is a sign

Of what, old age?

~~~
w8rbt
Wisdom.

~~~
drelihan
Awesomeness?

------
andrewbinstock
It's a curious purgatory the project is in, which I think would make it
difficult to attract developers.

On one hand, a user base wants the old product with minimal twists and they
are known to balk at anything more than that.

On the other, project survival likely depends on getting new users on board,
in which case an old design and UI are probably going to be detriments.

~~~
sanxiyn
I guess you could write a theming engine, implement the old design using it,
and then implement the new design.

~~~
NickNameNick
Doing that basically destroyed Winamp.

------
yuhong
It would be fun to port the Mac version to x86.

~~~
mrpippy
The Mac archive doesn't have any resource forks, which is likely going to
prevent building a working copy. Trying to figure out who to email at the CHM
about it.

~~~
tambourine_man
Really? That's a huge oversight.

At the very least, none of the original new mail images, sound, etc (all PCT,
SND resources). I miss hacking Eudora with ResEdit.

------
justin66
It is utterly strange that the museum claims "to publish the code under the
very liberal BSD open source license" and then prompts the user to agree to
all this stuff that contradicts the classic BSD license:

 _The Computer History Museum (the "Museum") is willing to license the
Software to you only upon the condition that you accept all of the terms
contained in this Agreement. By clicking on the "I accept" button below or by
downloading, installing or using the Software, you have indicated that you
understand this Agreement and accept all of its terms. If you do not accept
all the terms of this Agreement, then the Museum is unwilling to license the
Software to you.

1\. Grant of License. Conditioned upon your compliance with the terms and
conditions of this Agreement, the Museum grants you a non-exclusive and non-
transferable license for a single user, solely for your individual, personal
and non-commercial purposes, (a) to load and install the Software; (b) to
compile, modify and create modifications or enhancements of the Software or
any of its components ("Derivative Works"); and (c) to run the Software or
Derivative Works on simulators or hardware. The Museum and its licensors
reserve all rights in the Software not expressly granted to you in this
Agreement.

2\. Restrictions. Except as expressly specified in this Agreement, you may
not: (a) transfer, sublicense, lease, lend, rent or otherwise distribute the
Software or Derivative Works to any third party; or (b) make the functionality
of the Software or Derivative Works available to multiple users through any
means, including, but not limited to, by uploading the Software to a network
or file-sharing service or through any hosting, application services provider,
service bureau, software-as-a-service (SaaS) or any other type of services.
You acknowledge and agree that portions of the Software, including, but not
limited to, the source code and the specific design and structure of
individual modules or programs, constitute or contain trade secrets of Museum
and its licensors.

3\. Ownership. The copy of the Software is licensed, not sold. The Museum and
its licensors retain ownership of the copy of the Software itself, including
all intellectual property rights therein. The Software is protected by United
States copyright law and international treaties. You will not delete or in any
manner alter the copyright, trademark, confidentiality and other proprietary
rights notices or markings or limited or restricted rights legends appearing
on the Software as delivered to you.

4\. Term. The license granted under this Agreement remains in effect for a
period of 75 years, unless earlier terminated in accordance with this
Agreement. You may terminate the license at any time by destroying all copies
of the Software in your possession or control. The license granted under this
Agreement will automatically terminate, with or without notice from the
Museum, if you breach any term of this Agreement. Upon termination, you must,
at the Museum's option, either promptly destroy or return to the Museum all
copies of the Software in your possession or control and certify in writing to
the Museum that you have fully complied with the foregoing and that no copy of
the Software remains in your possession or control. 2

5\. Indemnification. You shall defend, indemnify and hold harmless the Museum
and its licensors from and against any damages, liabilities, costs, expenses
(including reasonable attorneys' fees), claims, demands, suits or proceedings
(an "Action") to the extent such Action alleges that your modification or
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copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret or any other proprietary right,
provided that the Museum gives written notice of the Action to you. The Museum
may opt to participate in the defense of an Action, provided that the Museum
bears any legal fees and expenses and other costs of defense it incurs in so
participating.

6\. NO WARRANTIES. THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY
KIND. THE MUSEUM AND ITS LICENSORS DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES AND CONDITIONS,
EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES AND
CONDITIONS OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NON-
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OBTAINED FROM MUSEUM OR ELSEWHERE WILL CREATE ANY WARRANTY OR CONDITION NOT
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7\. Limitation of Liability. THE MUSEUM AND ITS LICENSORS' TOTAL LIABILITY TO
YOU FROM ALL CAUSES OF ACTION AND UNDER ALL THEORIES OF LIABILITY WILL BE
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LIABILITY ARISES FROM ANY CLAIM BASED UPON CONTRACT, WARRANTY, TORT (INCLUDING
NEGLIGENCE), STRICT LIABILITY OR OTHERWISE, AND WHETHER OR NOT MUSEUM OR ITS
LICENSORS HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH LOSS OR DAMAGE. THE
FOREGOING LIMITATIONS WILL SURVIVE AND APPLY EVEN IF ANY LIMITED REMEDY
SPECIFIED IN THIS AGREEMENT IS FOUND TO HAVE FAILED OF ITS ESSENTIAL PURPOSE.
Some jurisdictions do not allow the limitation or exclusion of liability for
incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation or exclusion may
not apply to you.

8\. U.S. Government End Users. The Software is a "commercial item" as that
term is defined in FAR 2.101, consisting of "commercial computer software," as
such term is used in FAR 12.212 and DFARS 227.7202. If the Software is being
acquired by or on behalf of the U.S. Government, then, as provided in FAR
12.212 and DFARS 227.7202-1 through 227.7202-4, as applicable, the U.S.
Government's rights in the Software will be only those specified in this
Agreement.

9\. Export Law. You agree to comply fully with all U.S. export laws and
regulations to ensure that neither the Software nor any technical data related
thereto nor any direct product thereof are exported or re-exported directly or
indirectly in violation of, or used for any purposes prohibited by, such laws
and regulations. 3

10\. General. This Agreement will be governed by and construed in accordance
with the laws of the State of California, without regard to or application of
conflict of laws rules or principles. The United Nations Convention on
Contracts for the International Sale of Goods will not apply. You may not
assign or transfer this Agreement or any rights granted hereunder, by
operation of law or otherwise, without the Museum's prior written consent, and
any attempt by you to do so, without such consent, will be void. Except as
expressly set forth in this Agreement, the exercise by either party of any of
its remedies under this Agreement will be without prejudice to its other
remedies under this Agreement or otherwise. All notices or approvals required
or permitted under this Agreement will be in writing and delivered by
confirmed facsimile transmission, by overnight delivery service, or by
certified mail, and in each instance will be deemed given upon receipt. All
notices or approvals will be sent to the addresses specified by either party
to the other in accordance with this section. The failure by either party to
enforce any provision of this Agreement will not constitute a waiver of future
enforcement of that or any other provision. Any waiver, modification or
amendment of any provision of this Agreement will be effective only if in
writing and signed by authorized representatives of both parties. If any
provision of this Agreement is held to be unenforceable or invalid, that
provision will be enforced to the maximum extent possible, and the other
provisions will remain in full force and effect. This Agreement is the
complete and exclusive understanding and agreement between the parties
regarding its subject matter, and supersedes all proposals, understandings or
communications between the parties, oral or written, regarding its subject
matter, unless you and Museum have executed a separate agreement.

11\. Contact Information. If you have any questions regarding this Agreement,
you may contact the Museum by mail at 1401 N. Shoreline Blvd., Mountain View,
CA 94043, by telephone at 650.810.1010 or by facsimile at 650.810.1055.

IF YOU AGREE TO THE FOREGOING TERMS AND CONDITIONS AND DESIRE TO COMPLETE
INSTALLATION OF THE SOFTWARE, PLEASE CLICK THE "I ACCEPT" BUTTON BELOW.
OTHERWISE, PLEASE CLICK THE "I DO NOT ACCEPT" BUTTON AND THE INSTALLATION
PROCESS WILL STOP._

~~~
tomxor
That license means it's essentially dual licensed, and the more liberal
license will trump it (BSD), you cannot publish something as BSD and then
"downgrade it" afterwards.

The license you were forced to accept is probably just a generic license
covering all software in the computer history museum for when the owners have
_not_ provided a more liberal license.

~~~
justin66
> The license you were forced to accept

I didn't accept it. I'll try to get them to remove those terms, that appeals
to me more than agreeing to legal terms I don't intend to abide by.

~~~
cge
It's possible they have responded to this, because I now have these terms come
up:

Copyright (c) 2017, Computer History Museum. All rights reserved.

Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without
modification, are permitted (subject to the limitations in the disclaimer
below) provided that the following conditions are met:

    
    
        Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
        Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
        Neither the name of Computer History Museum nor the names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission.
    

NO EXPRESS OR IMPLIED LICENSES TO ANY PARTY'S PATENT RIGHTS ARE GRANTED BY
THIS LICENSE. THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND
CONTRIBUTORS "AS IS" AND ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT
LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A
PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COPYRIGHT HOLDER OR
CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,
EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO,
PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR
BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER
IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE)
ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE.

~~~
hsivonen
That license does not match
[https://opensource.org/licenses/BSD-3-Clause](https://opensource.org/licenses/BSD-3-Clause)

~~~
glandium
It matches [https://spdx.org/licenses/BSD-3-Clause-
Clear.html](https://spdx.org/licenses/BSD-3-Clause-Clear.html)

------
adamw2k
Wonder why they chose not to host on GitHub...

~~~
cpburns2009
This is meant to provide an archive for the code. A major attraction of using
GitHub is to allow easy pull requests and issues. If you're not going to be
using those features, it's mostly useless when you already have your own
infrastructure for hosting data. Lastly, if you're using a version control
system other than Git, GitHub is not going to work well.

~~~
akx
You can set repos to be archived, i.e. read-only, on Github these days.

Besides, I find it a whole lot easier to just casually browse through code on
Github rather than download 129 megs of eudora_w_source.zip, extract it
somewhere and rifle through it...

------
mark-r
How well has this code base aged? Will it be able to display today's HTML-
heavy emails?

~~~
coldacid
I'd hope that it wouldn't. "Today's HTML-heavy emails" are horrible.

~~~
mark-r
I wouldn't argue with you, but I'd rather they be horrible than unreadable.

