
Chrome 69 will keep Google Cookies when you tell it to delete all cookies - jwildeboer
https://twitter.com/ctavan/status/1044282084020441088
======
mangecoeur
Seriously don't know why anyone is surprised that a browser built by an ad-
tech company pushes the user tracking tech of that company.

Just use Firefox and have done with it - there's been a series of these kinds
of posts over the last couple of days with people suggesting insane workaround
hacks instead of just changing their browser.

P.S. if you keep chrome because some websites only work properly there, maybe
y'all should follow standards at work instead of targeting a proprietary
browser like its 2001/IE6 again.

~~~
ux-app
Dropping chrome is not enough. Switch to bing (Just as good as G), or ddg if
you really want. Then ditch android which is the spy in your pocket. If you're
installing G analytics for clients then choose an alternative (I'm open to
suggestions here).

It's really time to disentangle ourselves from google. They've quietly and
effectively insinuated themselves across the web. Enough is enough.

~~~
Carpetsmoker
What's the alternative to Android though? Apple has its own well-documented
issues, as well as a rather large price-tag. I just use my phone for maps and
some chat services, don't need a very fancy phone. Even the iPhone 7 is listed
at £449, which is already £150 more than I paid for my Sony Xperia.

I wish stuff like HP WebOS or Meego was still alive, but as far as I know,
Apple and Google are the only serious players in town at the moment :-(

~~~
JulienSchmidt
Android (the Android Open Source Project) itself is not the Problem. It's the
lock-in ecosystem that Google tries to establish with the Google Services
Framework, Play Store and the like. What is missing, is an open and privacy-
friendly alternative to GSF. Without GSF we don't have efficient push
notifications (Firebase Cloud Messaging), a geolocation provider, a maps API
etc.

Personally, I have been using microG
([https://microg.org/](https://microg.org/)) instead of GSF on my phone for
many years now. However, that is still just a partial solution. While it does
its best to be privacy-friendly and does not have any integrated tracking /
analytics like GSF, it still has to use Google's servers for push
notifications, thus tracking is still possible to some degree.

~~~
rattray
how is the product quality of microG? if a user is happy with GSF, will they
be disappointed with microG?

~~~
JulienSchmidt
microG is certainly not perfect and I wouldn't recommend it to the average
user. Expect some things to not work or even certain apps to crash. It's a
techie-solution for people who value their privacy highly.

------
drawkbox
Another confirmation that engineers and product developers are no longer in
control at Google.

Engineering and product first is how Google won the game initially, very easy
to forget that when the money rolls in massively and the power structures move
away from those driving forces.

Microsoft already went through this engineering/product growth to
bizdev/marketing control to stagnation and is already in the return to
engineering/product first phase. Basically their own Ballmer era is what
Google is entering.

Bizdev + marketing are hugely important, but the products and engineering need
to be the focus. It is much easier to bizdev and market a product and
engineering led system/focus, though success through this is always forgotten
when massive success comes around because engineering/research and development
are hard to quantify and put metrics to which the power structures move away
from.

Let's hope there are factions of engineering/product focused people in Google
that can gain back control.

~~~
orcdork
That feels like whitewashing part of the blame that applies to engineers and
product developers. We don't get to say "oh it's those pesky money people, how
dare they", while drawing a salary from the same pockets.

~~~
snarfy
They disagree with the direction the company is going so they ... quit? They
apply at some other company comparable to Google, uproot their family, move
across country, and get a job somewhere else?

I don't blame the engineers one bit. I certainly don't expect the poor
engineer that had to implement the cookie changes to refuse and quit his job
over it.

~~~
braythwayt
Yes.

That’s how values work. You VALUE them, meaning—objectively—you are willing to
make some sacrifice for them.

Same goes for working for a predatory financial institution, a manufacturer
who makes dangerous products, or for that matter, a company with a toxic
culture.

How is this different from working for a tobacco company? Decades ago we had
the same conversation about people who ”were just following orders.”

If you aren’t able to change your organization, change organizations. If not,
fine, but you cannot escape having proven that you don’t actually value
consumer privacy or what-have-you more than your hot supper. You just consider
it a nice ideal to bandy about in conversation.

Summary: Those who are complicit certainly deserve their share of the blame.
At the very least, you can say of them, “they value money more than privacy.”

If you don’t think so, maybe YOU don’t value these things that much, which is
why you won't hold anyone else accountable for them.

~~~
braythwayt
One more thing (apologies):

If you take the engineer off the hook because “they can’t change things,” you
know what inevitably happens? You discover that the product and eng managers
can’t change things either. In theory, maybe, but in practice they are given
accountability for revenue and growth targets, so what choice do they have?

Let’s move up the ladder. Can we blame the directors and ELT. No, the markets
hold them accountable for growth, and every company plays dirty, so what
choice do THEY have?

Pretty soon everyone is shrugging, and now you understand how SYSTEMIC
problems persist: Nobody is held personally accountable because no one person
can make change without sacrifice, and sometimes not even then, it would take
mass walkouts or protests , and each person is but a drop in the bucket.

This mechanism of not holding people accountable because they don’t have
sufficient authority or power to make unilateral change is how all systemic
injustices persist. Racism, sexism, class distinctions, corruption in
government, predatory corporations, all of them.

They persist because individuals say, “What can I do? Nothing, so I might as
well go along with it.” And if everyone accepts this...

The next thing you know, they’re writing software to assist opressive regimes
oppress their citizens.

~~~
wruza
Putting yourself in a weaker position due to your views doesn't scale and thus
doesn't work. For one hero there are ten conformists at the same level of
skill, waiting for him/her to leave. While it's brave, it is also pointless.
The problem as you state it can be solved only by explicit consensus, being it
a law or just a manifesto. Modern privacy has no professional and power-y
organization under it, except for few self-distanced like GNU, FSF, etc.
Moreover, by staying at google engineers who have an opinion probably can
influence much more than those who left.

~~~
tetrep
you can use the same argument to tell people not to vote. it's not a good one.

~~~
wruza
Not a good one use or argument itself?

------
NeedMoreTea
Are they trying to promote Firefox or something? Chrome seems to be trying
quite hard to annoy people enough to actually uninstall it.

~~~
pnenp
Worked for me. Switched to FF because I just can't trust Chrome anymore. FF
feels like a breath of fresh air.

~~~
ux-app
Yup, same. Switched to ff and bing. Was surprisingly frictionless. Next week
I'll be off gmail too. Up yours google. The week after, I'm getting rid of my
android phone.

I'm a high school IT teacher and have some influence over hundreds of students
each year. I've already started to sprinkle in some discussion about privacy
and will be sure to inform my students about the issues. Of course I won't
brow beat my students, but i will encourage them to make informed decisions.

In aggregate, over time this kind of behaviour by google will hurt them. No
such thing as too big to fail in tech.

~~~
danielecook
What will you replace gmail with?

~~~
bad_user
I use FastMail with my own domain. I used to use Google Apps before it.

But before switching email services, do yourself a favor and ditch webmail
interfaces first. Pick up a desktop/native email client and switch to IMAP /
SMTP.

On MacOS a solid option for us power users is MailMate
([https://freron.com/](https://freron.com/)) ... markdown composer, GMail
shortcuts, useful bundles, fast, uncluttered, it's basically what I wanted
Thunderbird to be. Development on Thunderbird is apparently ongoing too and
they just released version 60. Apparently Web Extensions are in the works too.

Transitioning to a native client is painful at first, but it's worth it.

GMail's web interface is a piece of shit lately anyway.

~~~
briandear
> markdown composer..

What kind of emails need markdown composing?

~~~
bad_user
It's awesome for emails containing snippets of code, code with syntax
highlighting being my use case.

And for formatting in general, the resulting email (composed in MailMate) will
be very friendly to clients that prefer to display emails as plain text, since
the text version is going to be very clean.

There's also a browser extension working with GMail's web interface too, but
it doesn't work as well as MailMate: [https://markdown-
here.com/](https://markdown-here.com/)

------
Buetol
Here's the PR where this message has been introduced: [https://chromium-
review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/98...](https://chromium-
review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/986287) ...but the related bug
discussion is hidden....

The internal name for the feature is "DICE" (desktop identity consistency
feature)

There is a build flag to disable the feature: ENABLE_DICE_SUPPORT

~~~
class4behavior
Well, at least in chromium you can disable it at run time as well:
chrome://flags/#account-consistency

~~~
swsieber
IIRC that flag is broken in canary 71

------
laurent123456
The list of what's left after you "Clear all cookies":
[https://twitter.com/ctavan/status/1044286636991877120](https://twitter.com/ctavan/status/1044286636991877120)

Even YouTube's stuff are left, that's crazy.

------
8fingerlouie
News like this, and the "forced" sign-in just illustrates to me how desperate
Google has become to "own all your data".

I lost all trust in public cloud after Snowden, but somehow remained convinced
that yes, Google reads my email, but that's about it. I migrated everything
but email to a selfhosted solution, and simplified things a lot. Recently i've
also migrated mail away from Google.

These past years have sadly proven (to me) i was right. What makes me even
more sad is that the common user has very few options to avoid it. To the best
of my knowledge, Apple doesn't track you, neither on Mac OS or iOS, but
there's a steep price, one that most consumers are not ready to pay. Linux may
be ready for the desktop, but it's still a long way away from my parents
installing it.

------
Navarr
Why are we assuming maliciousness?

My best guess that Chrome works this way would be due to combining the sign-in
cookies with the general cookies of the browser (e.g. 1 cookie store instead
of 2).

So when you log in to Google, you log in to Chrome - and vice versa. For non-
technical users this is a convenience feature, though for many it does come
with privacy concerns.

Judging by the comments re cookie clearing, there is some part of the login
still separate from that, but as it re-establishes itself the cookies come
back and you stay logged-in to Google.

Is this perhaps preventable by having a "Guest" Chrome account? What happens
then?

~~~
latexr
> Why are we assuming maliciousness?

Because Google has been screwing up so much, by this point they don’t deserve
the benefit of the doubt.

> My best guess that Chrome works this way would be due to combining the sign-
> in cookies with the general cookies of the browser

Why keep Youtube cookies, then?
[https://twitter.com/ctavan/status/1044286636991877120](https://twitter.com/ctavan/status/1044286636991877120)

------
edibleEnergy
Title of the post is not right, the author issued a (technically important)
correction[1]:

> Brief correction: Cookies seem to get removed and re-created immediately. At
> least the cookie content and creation date seems to change. Nonetheless:
> After hitting the "remove all" button you still don't end up with an empty
> cookie jar.

[1]:
[https://twitter.com/ctavan/status/1044543955457773573](https://twitter.com/ctavan/status/1044543955457773573)

------
sveme
Just got the update at work, and miraculously my uBlock adblocking extension
was removed and DuckDuckGo as the default search engine replaced with Google.
Looks like all my customizations were replaced by defaults. Now I'm wondering
whether it was our IT's fault or due to Google actions.

~~~
Crosseye_Jack
This can happen if somehow sync got enabled when you signed in.

Sync kicked in, noticed a mismatch between your current setup and the one you
had set up many years ago while testing the “sign into chrome” process and set
your setting to the one in the cloud.

It’s caught me out a couple of times too.

~~~
sveme
Sync is disabled by Corporate IT by default. Not suggesting any malevolence,
just wanted to check whether anyone else experienced a similar suspicious
event as well.

~~~
jchung
Curious now about how exactly your Corporate IT team is disabling sync by
default. Especially given the change as described. Possible to elaborate?

------
torgoguys
Isn't this an unsurprising, logical consequence of "signing into
google"=="signing into chrome"? If you're still signed into Chrome you're
going to get those cookies recreated by Chrome immediately.

Has anyone tested this behavior if you aren't signed in, or have disabled the
google/chrome login equivalence?

~~~
Brakenshire
Yes, seems like it’s pretty much a technical restatement of how "signing into
google"=="signing into chrome" works. It is interesting to see it in this
light, however. It’s easier to justify through UI (“It’s just one Google
service logging in to another”) than it is when you look at it in a technical
or historical light, of what being a browser used to mean.

------
captainmuon
If the log-into chrome would just _reflect_ the login state into google's
services, I think it would be much less controversal and actually useful.

Imagine little indicators that show which identity providers you are logged
into, like Facebook, Google, Twitter, .... You could do this by passively
reading the site cookies in an extension (are you allowed to do that nowadays
in extensions?). Even better, if you are not logged into, say, Facebook, block
third party cookies from their domains so it's harder for them to track you.

I think I have a good idea for a weekend project...

------
mic47
Could this be only when you are logged-in to your account in chrome?

I.e.

"if you are logged-in to chrome, it won't delete google cookies because it
need it for you to be logged-in to chrome (because of some UX excuse, like
user confusion why it's logged-out from chrome).

If you are logged out of chrome, it will delete everything."

If it works this way, I would be willing to give them benefit of doubt, since
there is reasonable UX reason to do it this way (given that logged-in to
chrome now equals to logged-in to gmail). I personally would expect that
deleting cookies will not log me out of chrome.

~~~
IanSanders
This could have been a valid point, but not since they started automatically
logging you in in the browser when you log in to gmail.

------
sbspk5567
I posted about this last month here and also in Google Chrome forums but no
one seemed to care.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17853092](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17853092)

~~~
tumetab1
That link leads to me an empty page, is the URL correct?

~~~
Boulth
The submission is marked as [dead] you need to change your settings to see it
(enable showdead).

~~~
laurent123456
Post was:

> Latest version of Chrome doesn't remove Google cookies when you clear
> browsing data. I feel like Google is adding super cookies to track users
> even after clearing browser data.

------
koolba
So all cookies are equal, but some are more equal than others?

Privacy implications aside, and boy are they some big ones, Google should be
worried about this leading to accusations of abusing the monopoly power of
their browser.

------
DarkWiiPlayer
What about chromium? Can anybody confirm if it has the same problem? (I know
it shouldn't, but come on, who trusts google?)

~~~
turblety
It still does a lot of callbacks to Google. the solution here is definitely
switch to Firefox, but if you're really stuck on Chrome you could try
Ungoogled chrome [1].

[1] [https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-
chromium](https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium)

------
dannyw
It’s time for antitrust action. This is just too excessive.

~~~
jiveturkey
sorry, disagree. very very easy to switch browsers.

~~~
dannyw
We’re not talking about the case of individual users. If you have a monopoly
position in one market, you cannot unfairly use it to give you an advantage in
another market.

Imagine if Google started delisting sites with Facebook Partner Network ads on
them...

The ease of switching is completely irrelevant.

------
arunitc
I just switched to Edge and it looks great. One of the reasons I had used
Chrome and had recommended all my customers to use Chrome was the ability to
print to PDF, which Firefox did not have (not sure if it does now). Edge does
and will be recommending all my clients to try out Egde.

~~~
userbinator
_the ability to print to PDF_

All browser have had the ability to do that, for many years now, if you
install a PDF printer driver. Adobe was the first with a commercial one, but
I'm sure there are free ones now.

~~~
froindt
No idea what GP's role is, but given corporate environments, installing a PDF
printer driver isn't always a quick process. This is particularly true if
they're working with customers from many different companies, each with their
own IT considerations.

Recommending Chrome is an easy enough way to get that functionality.

------
giancarlostoro
Wondering how long till the community forks Chromium and makes a foundation
for a reasonable Chromium fork. I'm more of a Firefox kinda guy, but I mean it
seems like the only way that users will regain control over their browser. I
know Vivaldi is based off at least parts of Chromium but I don't think it's
fully open source yet and it's not (at least last I checked) simple enough to
install on Linux (I can't just apt-get install it effortlessly like I can
Chromium for example).

------
growt
I'm counting the seconds to the google press release or blog post that says it
was confusing for users that they were suddenly signed out of gmail after they
deleted all cookies.

------
simula67
Can Google cookies be deleted ? This seems to have gone too far

~~~
sbspk5567
Nope, Even if you go to Settings -> cookies then delete the cookies one by
one. The cookies just come back magically. I completely stopped using Chrome
for this reason.

~~~
cpcallen
Wow, that is pretty shitty. Given the number of times over the years that I've
had to wipe all Google cookies and site data to fix issues with offline mode
in Google Docs, this does not bode well for being able to use Chrome
successfully to access even Google's own services in future.

~~~
kmlx
yes, you can. google cookies are being rewritten until you logout. once out,
you can remove the cookies. once you re-login, the cookies come back.
basically they've added a step: logout before cookie removal.

------
ToFab123
That was it for me. I hit the uninstall button. Enough!

------
kerng
I can't help to think that the new Google's CEO is not setting the right
standards and values for the company. Google's been on a roll recently with
privacy violations and related "doing evil" news. Someone on top must be
encouraging it, or at least not hold people accountable.

------
makecheck
You have to be able to trust your tools.

Imagine if “rm” just decided to occasionally set aside files instead of
removing them. The “star” in “rm star” means “remove everything”, not “remove,
asterisk” where at the bottom of the page the asterisk lists exceptions like
some kind of marketing weasel. Sheesh.

~~~
lann
`rm *` doesn't remove files starting with `.` (on most shells)...

------
plasma
Brave browser ([https://brave.com/](https://brave.com/)) is privacy focused
(built-in Tor Tabs, for example) and uses Chromium on the backend (with the
Google parts stripped).

~~~
mike22223333
It's ad replacement scheme is unethical. It forces publishers to only partner
with them and not multiple competing companies, atleast with Chrome publishers
can partner with other networks then Google. I won't root for it.

We want competition.

------
m-p-3
Glad I switched back to Firefox when Quantum came out.

Now I kinda hope Mozilla will make an official addon like Facebook Container
but for Google services. We're being tracked too much, and it's time to fight
back and making it easy to the average user to do it is the only way to change
that.

[https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/facebook-
cont...](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/facebook-container/)

------
dbg31415
Anyone have time to create a plugin mapping site?

That was the only hangup I had to move over to Firefox.

Most things work on Firefox, or there's a similar plugin.

Still looking for a few:

* Flix Assist - Chrome Web Store || [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/flix-assist/jeeccn...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/flix-assist/jeeccngbdajjccceabkpadjmbakhdbnp)

* WhatFont - Chrome Web Store || [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/whatfont/jabopobgc...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/whatfont/jabopobgcpjmedljpbcaablpmlmfcogm)

And... Lighthouse.

A few of the plugins I used on Chrome don't quite have perfect matches...

* Create Link - Chrome Web Store || [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/create-link/gcmghd...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/create-link/gcmghdmnkfdbncmnmlkkglmnnhagajbm) \-- haven't found a Firefox addon that lets me copy URL + Title via keyboard shortcut.

Also looking for a way to change Firefox's default Apple + Shift + 5 to not
try and take a Firefox screenshot, as Apple + Shift + 5 is my Skitch shortcut.

------
mehrdadn
Is there any reason to believe Google would _not_ be tracking Chrome
installations even without persistent cookies? Does this actually make any
difference?

------
ravivyas
I Uninstalled Chrome a few days ago, more due to the fact I don't need it.
Safari has been my default for a long time, specially due to the fact I can
use 1Blocker across the phone, iPad and my Mac. FF's Containers has replaced
Chrome's profile features for me. Infact I have gone ahead and made a seperate
container for Google and defaulted google domains to it, just like what the
FaceBook container does.

~~~
jdgoesmarching
I really wish I could be back on Safari to sync between all my devices. Pity
they killed their Windows version, a lot of us don't have a choice of OS at
work.

------
Mikho
Surprised about all the fuzz. The good part about Chrome is one may create
many sessions/users in Chrome. So, I use one dedicated Chrome user to access
Google services and use another not logged into Google user in a different
session for everything else. There is really no problem if one knows how to
use Chrome.

Really good part is that it's possible to create a shortcut to a site/service
from a particular user session in Chrome and launch that shortcut as a
headless standalone window that looks like Windows native app, not a browser.
The shortcut is connected to the user session it was created from. So, for
example, I have Gmail icon on my desktop and taskbar that launches a dedicated
window to access mail without even starting Chrome browser session for Google
user. Simultaneously I have Chrome opened with another, not Google,
user/session. Problem solved--check mail, calendar, whatever in one sandboxed
environment and browse the web in another one.

------
JepZ
Somehow this reminds me of the time when Google started to unify their login
experience (one login for all Google services).

That was the time I started actively avoiding Google services, and I still do.
This incident is a good reminder of why I do so.

------
mike22223333
Everyone developing for the web platform should keep in mind if their business
actually supports their competitor.

Every time a user clears their cookies your site will be at a disadvantage if
your business depends on ads or account login, not Google.

------
jagira
Chrome 69 on Mac puts Close/Minimise/Maximise buttons in an additional bar
when in fullscreen mode. It's super irritating to see an additional bar when
you move mouse to top of screen.

I have downgraded to Chrome 68 and disabled auto updates.

[https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/chrome/D0dB6j...](https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/chrome/D0dB6jJ_Lwo;context-
place=topicsearchin/chrome/category$3Agive-feature-feedback-and-
suggestions%7Csort:relevance%7Cspell:false)

~~~
butz
Disabling updates is really bad idea. Maybe it is still possible to switch
back to old functionality using chrome://flags ?

~~~
jagira
I tried looking for config options but couldn't find any. I am just a version
behind. Will resume auto updates when they fix this annoying behaviour.

------
reidrac
I had to leave Firefox for Chrome at the office because Meet and Hangouts; I
missed this: [https://blog.mozilla.org/webrtc/firefox-is-now-supported-
by-...](https://blog.mozilla.org/webrtc/firefox-is-now-supported-by-google-
hangouts-and-meet/)

Since Firefox 60 you don't need Chrome for that, so I'm back to Firefox.
Firefox isn't perfect, and that was OK because there was always Chrome. Now it
starts to feel like it is Firefox or nothing, which isn't ideal.

------
alistproducer2
Wow,more bad news on the privacy front for Chrome users. I hate to beat a dead
horse, but I'm glad I switched back to FF. I'm absolutely loving the multi-
account container feature.

------
talonx
I have been a Firefox user for years. I have realized that in spite of it
being more open, it is absolutely necessary to keep up to date with what
Mozilla is up to. E.g. came across this today - [https://blog.ungleich.ch/en-
us/cms/blog/2018/08/04/mozillas-...](https://blog.ungleich.ch/en-
us/cms/blog/2018/08/04/mozillas-new-dns-resolution-is-dangerous/)

------
lwhi
If an organisation gets to a certain size, is it inevitable that it will
eventually turn bad and disregard it's end-users' interests?

Is this just the nature of the beast?

~~~
perfunctory
You are getting it backwards. Google regards its end-users interests alright.
You are just misunderstanding who the end-users are.

~~~
lwhi
Clients vs. livestock maybe ..

------
std_throwawayay
I suspect that they use metrics for making decisions and the total number of
users is growing. Those who understand and care for privacy are only a small
portion of the user base and don't play a role in metrics. And if they play a
role in metrics, they are probably accounted as leeches because they use
google products but don't pay back because they block ads. Therefore a totally
useless user base... maybe.

------
fixermark
Updated tweets indicate it deletes the cookies then immediately creates new
ones? This is probably related to that login-state sync between the browser
and Google account previously discussed; it'd be really weird to me if
deleting my cookies logged me out of my browser account, but that means it's
also really weird if it logs me out of Gmail if I'm still in my Google account
in the browser itself.

------
pleasecalllater
After all that I have some trust issues. Btw. how should I be sure that Chrome
wouldn't copy my documents from my drive and send them to Google?

------
CitizenTekk
But for an SEO like me, I will really get a hard time dropping google as it
still control almost the powerful SERPFs in the net. Will still find better
ways and start re-evaluating things as an alternative, anyone here with
suggestion will be very much welcome and appreciated. cheeky moves. Might as
well just use it doing business related things and use firefox as personal
browser.

------
graycrow
Yesterday I started moving to FastMail, today switched to Firefox, what
tomorrow will bring?

Btw, can someone recommend a good alternative to Google Maps API?

~~~
fma
I switched to FF ~1 year ago because I found the performance to be better. But
Google's trend is making me consider switching back to an iPhone...

~~~
wakkaflokka
I'm in the same boat. Just switched away from Gmail and Chrome. Love my Pixel
2 XL for its astonishing camera, but very seriously considering a switch to
the iPhone.

~~~
d3ckard
In this case, I can assure you that iPhone8Plus/iPhoneX and successors camera
is freaking awesome. Awesome enough to make me start doing photos for
pleasure.

------
samstave
I'm beginning to think that all the craziness surrounding the Bad Things (TM)
Chrome is doing, is being done surreptitiously as a warning from engineering
in Google to GTFO...

Given how google is embracing and building for totalitarian markets, such as
China, as are its peers in the tech space - I think this is maybe a way to
warn people to get the hell away from Google's products.

------
neolefty
Technically, it does remove the cookies. And then instantly you get new ones,
from being logged in to your G account at the browser level.

~~~
anticensor
This is worse than not removing them as your bandwith cap would drain.

------
krisgenre
Even for someone who likes Google, this is insane.

------
CommanderData
Remember when every developer was a advocate of Google Chrome?

The outrage begins but only for .000001% of users. Google could not care less.

I haven't switched like most people here say they have, I have made an effort
to install alternatives and use them. A better way to protest is to begin
supporting Firefox in other ways such as writing your web apps and extensions.

------
dfcowell
Well, that was finally evil enough for me to switch from Chrome to Vivaldi.

This is starting to look like early-00s Internet Explorer all over again, just
with a different BigCorp behind the wheel.

Still need to buy a few things to make self-hosting email and my personal site
practical, but hopefully that'll all be set up in a few weeks as well. Bye
Google.

------
kowdermeister
It be some background process or chrome extension communicating with google
services. Because that would explain the automatic regeneration of cookies
since cookie creation is automatic.

And no, even this won't stop me using Chrome. You know what will? If I can
identify it's causing BSOD on my system, like I've seen 2 yesterday.

~~~
foepys
BSOD can also be caused by bad graphics drivers. It's a major problem for
browsers on Linux, so they don't enable hardware accelerated video playback by
default. Firefox even used to remove the code from Linux builds but I think
that they include it now.

~~~
kowdermeister
That's what I'm thinking as well, it happened during WebGL development with
the same symptoms both time.

------
potench
Waiting for APF’s response, she usually provides some insight, here’s an
example from the recent Chrome Sign-in changes
[https://twitter.com/__apf__/status/1044109217903198210?s=21](https://twitter.com/__apf__/status/1044109217903198210?s=21)

------
nimbius
not seeing it here, but its worth a mention for those ready to jump ship.
Iridium [https://iridiumbrowser.de/](https://iridiumbrowser.de/) is a fork of
Chromium that seeks to deprecate the absurdities Google seems racing to
introduce into chrome.

------
tomxor
OK that's enough, I had been doing a slow transition but this is just a step
too far, qutebrowser is now my main browser... I just want a decent browser
engine with a front-end that respects me, qute gets me chromium without the
increasingly bullshit front end user "features".

------
cimmanom
Non-Twitter writeup: [https://news.softpedia.com/news/chrome-69-does-not-
delete-go...](https://news.softpedia.com/news/chrome-69-does-not-delete-
google-cookies-when-clearing-all-website-data-522884.shtml)

------
csomar
That does it for me. I have tried the latest FireFox version and it is faster,
for the first time. I've been reluctant to switch but these last updates hit
the nail everywhere. The tabs are worse. Chrome is slowish as hell and the
intrusion is insane.

Job well done chrome.

------
AndersSandvik
This is where you can contact Google about this violation
[https://support.google.com/policies/troubleshooter/7575787](https://support.google.com/policies/troubleshooter/7575787)

------
ssijak
Coincidentaly I switched from Google services a week before this Chrome
fiasco. I am happy with the switch for services, but was hard to accept laggy
firefox ui on mac or safari without some plugins. This made it 100% easier.

~~~
nindalf
> laggy firefox ui on mac

Really? I've been using it for years and I haven't felt a problem. But this
could be a bug, and it'd be a good idea to report it.

~~~
calv
It's really weird, it happens on my "new" 2016 MBP and a work machine. But I
can't tell why I'm getting slowdowns.

------
thsealienbstrds
It's like some people at Google realize that the company's image is messed up
beyond repair. So they decided they might as well go full-on evil and make as
much money as they can before the party's over.

------
Improvotter
I wanna switch go Firefox so badly. But I use Linux, MacOS, and Windows and
Firefox still does not support keychain on MacOS. I'm not gonna input my
master password every time I open up my browser.

~~~
TCattd
Or use a good cross-platform (Linux included) open-source password manager.
For example: [https://bitwarden.com](https://bitwarden.com) ;)

~~~
Improvotter
Does Firefox offer integration with this for the master password? How does
this work exactly on iOS?

------
rajaganesh87
I think this is required for my-activity to work \-
[https://myactivity.google.com/myactivity](https://myactivity.google.com/myactivity)

~~~
onion2k
If I build a service that needs a cookie to persist in the event of a user
purging their cookies I don't think Google would accept that and just not
delete it. The same is true for Google. If a user purges their cookies there
shouldn't be any set afterwards.

 _However..._ what's probably happening here is that the cookie _is_ being
deleted but then created again immediately afterwards because something in the
user's browser is connected to a Google server and that makes a new cookie if
it detects the old one has gone away. The message in the tweet is informing
the user that will happen. Arguably that's a reasonably useful notification -
it stops the user mistakenly believing purging their cookies will log them
out.

EDIT: Or, more likely, Google are actually storing the user's logged in state
in localstorage or something, so clearing cookies won't log you out _because
there isn 't a cookie_.

~~~
ctavan
Agree, in the "Clear browsing data" there's a clear message. Fine.

However in chrome://settings/siteData?search=cookies there's just a "Remove
all" button which in fact doesn't remove all cookies. See:
[https://twitter.com/ctavan/status/1044517442993737729](https://twitter.com/ctavan/status/1044517442993737729)

~~~
sbspk5567
Forget about the ‘remove all’ button. Clicking the huge delete button with
‘trash’ icon that is supposed to delete the cookie one by one just hides the
entry and then every Google Cookie is back when you refresh the page.

------
dzonga
Firefox on Mac can kill the battery and be a performance hog so far simply
disabling auto-update might solve, some cases if you use
FirefoxDeveloperEdition.

------
tebruno99
Chrome 69, the The Google Chrome that Sucks and F*&#s

------
erkose
Next up: Connecting to third party google ad sites that have been blocked by
an addon that cancels a chrome.webRequest.onBeforeRequest.

------
cryptos
Keep in mind that Google dropped the motto "Don't be evil." So this change is
in compliance with Google ethics now.

~~~
teddyfrozevelt
[https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-
conduct.html](https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html)

No they didn't. It's right at the bottom here.

------
mojo74
It seems to me that the recent cosmetic changes to Chrome were a sleight of
hand. As many people have pointed out here, there has been a major shift in
Google's attitude towards its users and the web as a whole.

I think we are looking at the public face of something significant to have
happened in Google search (and AI) and this attempt to start plugging all the
gaps in our browsing habits is so that Google have as good as 95-100%
understanding of human habits.

Foil hats on everybody :)

------
unknown5
How has it been this long and no one pointed out the obvious joke here:

Chrome 69 - Fucking users right in the face

------
crb002
Sounds like Chrome 69 really sucks. Would kick out of laptop for not deleting
cookies.

~~~
kmlx
i found that on my machines Chrome 69 is one of the fastest and consumes the
least amount of ram of all Chrome releases so far. on mac the difference
between firefox and chrome is night and day for both speed and memory
consumption, unfortunately. even safari 12 fares better than firefox in this
regard.

~~~
jamesb93
aer you saying chrome or ff uses less?

~~~
kmlx
chrome 69 on macos using latest 15 inch macbook. much faster than chrome 68,
and in a different league than firefox 62. different story on windows thou.

------
cinquemb
How long until version has the feature that when you install it loads a kernal
driver such that when you close it, it runs in the background copying
keystrokes and screen shots and uploading them? I'd love to hear how they'd
sell that, maybe offering to pay for your internet connection?

~~~
Ws32ok
Like Microsoft did with their windows 10 technical preview?

Or like Microsoft still does with machines with handwriting / touchscreens?

[https://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-touch-security-
wai...](https://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-touch-security-
waitlist.dat,37828.html)

~~~
cinquemb
Yeah, its interesting to see these companies move in this direction, must tell
you that their profit margins are tightening and therefore must provide more
value by increasing their surveillance levels.

------
ur-whale
One thing that really surprises me with Google is how some of the old timers
there (who very likely aren't constrained by the "I have o make a living" at
this point) can still agree to continue working there when they witness what
the culture has become.

------
wrs
Inaccurate headline — according to later messages it _does_ delete the Google
cookies, but the auto sign in feature (discussed earlier) recreates them, as
it obviously must. I don’t think an _additional_ wave of hysterical dismay is
justified here.

~~~
mdavidn
“When you sign into Gmail, you also sign into Chrome.” How does this feature
“obviously” imply that Chrome must recreate tracking cookies? My expetation
would be that, after deleting all cookies, I’m signed into the browser but not
Gmail.

------
dhimes
I wonder if it's still going to wipe out my password storage...

~~~
n42
1Password now has a browser extension that runs the entire application in
browser, which means you can use a dedicated password manager across all
operating systems with a proper security model. Check out the 1Password X
extension.

------
wslh
This is when Google starts to underestimate users and treat them as dumb
zombies.

It is their new game theory play:

1/ Start making people think you are super ethical (don't be evil)

2/ Gain traction

3/ Change rules and take advantage of inertia. People are lazy to change
browsers.

~~~
czechdeveloper
You will see that there will be exactly zero backlash outside of hacker news.

They do not need their first adopters anymore.

~~~
jonbronson
There are already a number of media outlets picking up these stories,
including gizmoto and business insider. Nothing happens in a vacuum. Just
takes time to propagate outward.

------
_zachs
Just want to chime in here, if you're ok deciding that Google engineers should
be quitting their jobs, you should be fine deleting any Google services you're
still a part of.

------
8to5Therapy
prbly 99% of ppl saying they're done with Google and Chrome on the comment are
posting the same comment from Chrome

------
_virtu
Annnnnd I'm moving to brave.

------
peheje
I'll take a look at Firefox.

------
Tistel
power corrupts, absolute ... yada yada ... cliches etc.

I am trying to stick to duck duck go and a safari/firefox combo. The browsers
are fine. But, its hard to give up that !g search. I worked in the ad-tech
space in the past. Google's tech is amazing, but, the price we pay for all
this free stuff ... scary/creepy.

------
kolderman
_Be as evil as possible._

------
pertymcpert
I've seen very few people questioning Pichai as Tim Cook gets questioned. Why
does he get a free pass?

------
sunseb
It’s time to switch:

duckduckgo.com qwant.com

~~~
gregknicholson
Let's not perpetuate the idea that Google is primarily a web search engine.

It hasn't been ever since Gmail, Google Calendar, Chrome and Android took off.

------
emrex
Stoped trusting google years ago, I switched from chrome to firefox and from
google to duckduckgo.

------
singularity2001
Is Google indictable (sueable) for that massive abuse under EU law?

------
lainproliant
Goodbye Chrome.

------
vinyasmusic
So it's doing a 69 with your privacy

------
bhouston
That is so bad. Oh my god.

------
housingpost
I recommend that anyone that has a problem with this in Europe file a GDPR
complaint, and if you're in the US file a complaint with your attorney
general. Some states' attornies general are looking for new ways to come down
on Google, and this is a good start. If you have a setting to delete all
cookies and it doesn't do that, that's against the law in some places.

~~~
chii
How can GDPR apply to processes running locally on your machine?

At best, you can claim misleading advertising (which, is often handled by the
fair trade commission or something similar, and often has to show damages
before they can award anything).

~~~
ctavan
I recommend this read: [https://blog.lukaszolejnik.com/am-i-logged-in-or-not-
gdpr-ca...](https://blog.lukaszolejnik.com/am-i-logged-in-or-not-gdpr-case-
study)

~~~
czechdeveloper
Your url does not work for me (404), this one does:
[https://blog.lukaszolejnik.com/am-i-logged-in-or-not-gdpr-
ca...](https://blog.lukaszolejnik.com/am-i-logged-in-or-not-gdpr-case-study-
on-the-example-of-chrome-browser-change/)

------
swebs
"Oh you want to take a moral stand? Ok, the door is that way. We've just
successfully lobbied for a few hundred more H1B's that will do anything we
tell them"

~~~
nathan_long
"OK, no problem. Having Google on my resume means I can get a new job by the
end of the week. I'll be sure to spread the word to users and developers alike
that you're shady."

Let's not pretend that developers are powerless.

~~~
cptskippy
Unless you're an H1-B worker in which case it's gets much more complicated.

In my experience, most of the H1-B workers we have are very much Yes Men when
it comes to doing what's asked of them. There are also cultural factors that
come into play (e.g. never admitting ignorance on a topic, pleasing authority
) and .

~~~
ehosca
H1-B is modern day slavery.

~~~
kbenson
> H1-B is modern day slavery.

Eh, there's a power imbalance, but let's not go overboard.

They are offered a good job with good pay in another country. That means they
have less power in negotiations, and may be deported, but they don't lose the
money they earned, and it's not like they are being exiled to some foreign
place, they are literally sent _home_.

Nobody's freedom is being taken away, and nobody's rights are being infringed
(that I know of). It may not be morally acceptable depending on your point of
view, but it's not _slavery_. Using that word here lessens how strong it is
when used in other contexts, modern day (human trafficking) and historically
(in America and eslewhere). We don't need that.

~~~
Notorious_BLT
Being sent "home" when you've been living and working in another country for
possibly years at a time doesn't really make it any better. You don't
necessarily have a "home" wherever you came from.

~~~
kbenson
> Being sent "home" when you've been living and working in another country for
> possibly years at a time doesn't really make it any better.

Than _slavery_? Yes it does make it better. Much better.

------
subtlefart
What a cookie monster

------
yAnonymous
Considering how great Google are with regex, if your domain has anything
Google in it, the cookies will probably be kept forever.

[http://www.google.com.somedomain.com](http://www.google.com.somedomain.com)

Looks a lot like "google.com" to me.

------
qubax
So "clear browsing history" ( from all time ) really doesn't do what it says
anymore? It doesn't even clear youtube history? Wowsa.

If google is this bad, I wonder what microsoft is really storing. I wonder
what ISPs are storing. Also, this type of news doesn't give me much confidence
when it comes to android either.

------
observr9
Chrome highlights page keyword search result locations on the scroll bar,
making the process of going through them very convenient. Firefox doesn't, and
I couldn't find an extension that replicates the feature without extra manual
effort.

Also, I find Firefox UI sluggish to use, relative to Chrome UI.

~~~
zach43
Well, I think you’re paying for the better speed in chrome by sacrificing your
privacy. Isn’t that how this all works?

You consent to being tracked -> google gets money off of tracking you ->
google can pay more engineers to work on chrome and make it faster -> you get
more tied into chrome’s performance quirks and ecosystem -> google gets more
money by tracking you -> and so on...

If that sounds fair to you, then none of google’s actions should bother you
(probably). But for me personally, I switched over to Firefox a long time ago
when I noticed that chrome was becoming increasingly user-hostile in design.

~~~
jasonvorhe
That actually sounds alright to me. But then I have everything in Google
Drive, use G-Suitr for everything, buy Pixel phones and Chromebooks.

~~~
zach43
Hmm this is actually quite interesting...I don’t know anyone IRL who has such
deep integration with google services (apart from a few googlers of course).

You seem to be exactly the kind of user that would benefit from chrome’s
recent changes.

Is there anything google could do that could make you move away from their
services? I can’t imagine that any further anti-privacy actions by google
would justify the cost of having to having to switch away from google’s
platforms.

------
panemcircensis
But if you take the laptop outside, at full moon, and dance naked on the
hillside around a fire, singing "SudOh how I want to be free, baby", you can
overcome those settings. There is absolutely no reason to be enraged about the
evil. There is even a tech-community valve installed, see instructions above.

------
mortehu
If you want to delete all cookies and site data, go to the "All cookies and
site data" page in settings (chrome://settings/siteData) and click delete all.
This also deletes Google cookies.

If you just want to browse without your existing cookies, I suggest opening a
Guest Window. Just open the "Current User" menu and then "Open Guest window".
That way you don't have to delete them at the end.

This is assuming you're in good faith trying to delete cookies, and just can't
figure out how.

------
whywhywhywhy
Was using private browsing to log in to work gmail last night and found it
really creepy how it remained logged in across private tabs.

Thought the whole point of a private tab was to completely isolate a browsing
session, now you can never be certain your Google credentials are not being
shared in these private sessions or even contaminate my non-private sessions.

Going to have to use another browser for my work sessions from now on.

~~~
beavis2
> it remained logged in across private tabs.

If you mean "Incognito mode", then that's always happened. You need to close
all tabs.

Exactly the same for FireFox's private browsing.

~~~
ken
I don't use Chrome/Firefox but this surprises me, as well. The presence of a
private browser window (anywhere) will prevent it from deleting cookies when
you close this private browser window? That seems completely counterintuitive
to me. When else, in any application, does the mere existence of an open,
empty window completely change the behavior of a different window?

Safari's private tabs are each completely independent.

~~~
topspin
> The presence of a private browser window (anywhere) will prevent it from
> deleting cookies when you close this private browser window?

Yes. This is not new behavior. And yes, it frustrates people that assume each
window is a separate incognito instance. It's not, and hasn't ever been.

------
nsajko
Ha, this does not affect me personally, because of the way I use Chromium.
Instead of calling it directly, I call a script which copies white-listed
files and directories from the main Chromium data directory to a new data
directory in /tmp, and then starts Chromium with the new data directory as
data directory. After the directory in /tmp is deleted, there are sure to be
no more cookies from that session.

~~~
tinus_hn
Ha, this does not affect me personally, because of the way I do not use
Chromium. Instead of calling it, I don't.

------
contem
I like to think that Google is just not a conventional company and that they
do everything to not become one. They creatively solve challenges (like how to
keep certain cookies when a user presses "remove all") and this helps them
provide unbiased, accurate, and free access to the world's information. People
wanting to stay signed in can rely on them to do the right thing, even if in
the near term the financial returns are not obvious. Their corporate structure
is aligned with this objectivity: Serving their end users is at the heart of
what they do. When people are logged off you can't really consider them your
number one priority, because they don't either. Many Silicon Valley companies
are under pressure to keep their earnings in line with short-term analyst's
forecasts, Google is no exception here. But forced and universal log-in to
Google's services optimizes for long-term return. Everybody hoped, but nobody
believed, that Google would end up in this powerful position: Being able to
strong-arm your power users, while still providing the best, most accurate,
search results for people not logged in. In the end, this business tactic of
universal and forced log-in makes the world, and by extension the internet, a
better place. I know some people here raise privacy concerns, but this change
clearly protects a user's privacy.

