

Ask HN: Please, validate my idea - ilgarm

Hi! I am thinking about building simple service to store interesting places (POIs) to travel in the future. There are many services which let you share your past trips, pics, etc. Sure, there are also many services for trip planning.<p>I would like to implement a service to keep a list of places to visit and also specify travel preferences + available vacation days and some other criteria to get recommendations from the service. It is not much about travel planning but more about optimally using vacation days and not forgetting about places to see.<p>Something similar exists on TripAdvisor in Saved Trips section, but I do not find it very convenient.
Thanks for your feedback!
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vitovito
Hi! Designer and researcher, here. When Steve Blank/Eric Ries say you should
"validate" your idea, this is not what they mean. This is not validating an
idea. This is having a solution and looking for a problem.

To actually validate this idea, you need a few things.

First, you need to get rid of the "I would like" that starts your second
paragraph. If you are creating a product or service for other people to use,
it doesn't matter what you would "like." All that matters is what they would
pay for (or actively use, if you have no business model). That could be
something you don't want to work on at all, but an idea you don't care for but
others will pay for will always out earn an idea only you love.

Second, you need to get rid of the rest of the second paragraph. That's your
pre-defined solution, in search of a problem. Sorry!

(Note: if all you want to do is build something for fun, then you don't need
to validate anything at all! Building it for fun should be enough. Just don't
expect anything more out of it, and if you decide to productize it, expect to
start over from scratch.)

Your actual idea is "TripAdvisor's 'Saved Trips' is inconvenient, and doesn't
help me plan the best possible trips around my vacation schedule."

Third, asking strangers here, in this way, isn't helpful. It's not providing
true validation. This isn't any better than asking friends and family what
they think of your idea. None of the data you get out of this (or asking your
friends/family) is valid. It can't be used to support your business case.

So, fourth, to actually validate your idea, you need to find a few different
types of people:

\- people who have a fixed number of PTO days and who have recently (last six
months) taken a trip. you'll want to specify the kind of trips you want to
optimize for. day trips within driving distance? multi-day trips?
national/international? people think about different kinds of trips
differently. you'll want to understand how they made the choice to make that
trip, what were their considerations, what was difficult in it.

\- people who have a fixed number of PTO days and wanted to travel, but
didn't. you'll want to understand why they didn't take the trip.

\- people who use TripAdvisor's Saved Trips section. you'll want to understand
why they use it. maybe it's inconvenient for your use case because it's meant
for people who plan trips differently than you.

With this information, you'll be able to understand the pain points for your
imagined user, and that will let you come up with possible solutions. The one
you've posited above might be in there, but, crucially, _it also might not
be._

Once you've addressed the pain points and come up with a potential solution,
then you go back to the users in the first two groups and see if they'd pay
for it.

That's the only true validation: will they cut you a check? That's the core
part of MVP that people forget about: it's the minimum product that _someone
will pay for._

If they would, that's validation for your idea. If they wouldn't, you need to
figure out if your solution is wrong, or if there's not a market there.

Good luck!

~~~
mmalachowski
_If you are creating a product or service for other people to use, it doesn 't
matter what you would "like."_

I disagree. In many cases (and I belive in this one) you should create a tool,
YOU will use. You should be the power user. It's hard to convience others to
use a tool, that you don't use, don't like or don't understand.

Someone told me some time ago, when I was launching my startup: "we [people]
are not as unique as we think. If you have some problem, certainly there are
more people on the world facing the same problem."

~~~
vitovito
Yes, but how many people, and is it a problem they would _pay_ to solve?

The problem with "us" having problems is that we are, all of us, very
atypical. We don't experience "normal people" problems, being comparatively
affluent, generally male, technologically proficient, and uniquely able to
think in terms of systems, processes, abstractions, and algebraic math. There
are also, relatively speaking, very few of us. The number of people with PTO
and no idea what to do with it, is not as large as the number of people with
PTO who know exactly what to do with it because they have families, which is
not as large as the number of people who work hourly with no PTO at all.

In addition, we've all had the experience of an ignorant manager, executive,
or client thinking they know better because they considered themselves a power
user, or because they "used to" do the task we were designing or building a
solution for, or because "it's just common sense." Maybe you were able to
prove them wrong by walking them through it, or showing them usability tests,
or maybe you ended up having to build the feature and watch it fail in the
market before something changed.

You are never entirely like your user, and you are most different from them by
the fact that you can build a solution (getting it for free after your labor
is complete), whereas you are asking them to pay you for it (meaning they have
to choose to not buy other things).

That's why Blank/Ries want you to validate by "getting out of the building"
and focus on actually getting paid.

------
notduncansmith
There's a lot of literature on the web as to "how to validate" your idea, but
not all of it is good so I'll reiterate the tactic that has worked for me,
time and time again: Build a landing page, and send traffic to it.

1\. Decide what your core value proposition is, then write enough copy to fill
up a landing page. If you're not an experienced copywriter, hire this out.
Otherwise, all you'll validate is your own ability to write shitty copy.

2\. Make some fake screenshots. You don't have to be a photoshop wizard,
chances are someone has implemented something that looks like whatever
features you want to highlight, so just steal their screenshots and Photoshop
your branding onto them if necessary.

3\. Download a decent-looking Wordpress template. Host it on DigitalOcean,
they have a preconfigured Wordpress droplet and you can get 2 months of
hosting for free (more than enough time to validate your idea).

4\. Set up an email subscription. This will give you a nice heuristic as to
whether or not people find it valuable, and if a lot of people sign up, you
have the added benefit of having a list of people to market to once you
launch. You can do this with MailChimp, also for free.

5\. (Only if you plan on charging) Build a "button to nowhere" with a pricetag
attached. This is the true test of whether or not you've come up with
something people will pay for. Make sure it actually does _something_ , and be
sure to tell people that they won't actually be charged, that you're just
validating the idea and you're really happy they're interested. If they
haven't already signed up for the newsletter, give them a chance to do so
here.

6\. Throw traffic at it. You can find coupon codes for AdWords and Bing Ads
credits all over the place. Post it here, and promote the hell out of on
various websites, mailing lists, etc. BetaList is a good one.

7\. Personally talk to anyone that signed up for the email (preferably over
the phone/Skype). Get a really good idea of the problem they want solved, and
see what features they'd like. Ignore the made-up Henry Ford quote about
faster horses; just be sure to take outside input with a grain of salt and
you'll be fine.

I can guarantee that if your landing page is decently appealing to the eye,
and your copy adequately expresses your value proposition in an appealing way,
then you will validate your idea.

All of the above can be done for 0 money down, only a bit of time (which
hopefully you have available to invest in spades, since you're considering
doing building a product). Good luck, and if you need any help, shoot me an
email: hello at duncanmsmith.com.

~~~
ColinWright
As a counter-point, every time I get sent to a "Look - I have an amazing new
service!" that just sends me to a sign-up page I do two things:

* Note never, ever, to sign up for it

* Leave.

I'm starting to hate this tactic with a passion. Probably you don't want my
business anyway, but if you claim to have a facility and then send me to a
non-functioning sign-up page I will actively take steps never to use your
service.

~~~
notduncansmith
To be clear, I don't advocate outright deception in most cases. Unless you're
testing out something people will be buying (paid SaaS, book, etc) I do not
recommend the button to nowhere.

When asking people to "sign up", my advice would be to make it perfectly clear
that the product isn't ready yet, and what they're signing up for is a
notification when it is. "Get your exclusive beta invite" or some such copy
will work fine here.

As for losing your business because you thought this was something that
already existed... well, you're certainly entitled to your opinions. To
"actively take steps never to use your service" doesn't make much sense to me:
I definitely understand the frustration that comes from having a pain point,
then finding what appears to be a solution, only to be disappointed. If you
have a real pain though, surely you'd want to know when the solution was
ready, since it sounded like a good enough solution when you clicked on the
ad?

~~~
ColinWright

      > To be clear, I don't advocate outright deception
      > in most cases.
    

"Most cases" ?? Usually the deception has already been perpetrated to get
people to go to the page in the first place. Some shiny new thing is
announced, it looks good, it looks interesting, I go to the site ...

    
    
        "Not ready yet - sign here to
         get an invitation to join the
         beta test when it's ready."
    

I'm already there under false pretenses. It's incredibly frustrating, and
happening more and more.

    
    
        To "actively take steps never to use your service"
        doesn't make much sense to me: I definitely understand
        the frustration that comes from having a pain point,
        then finding what appears to be a solution, only to be
        disappointed. If you have a real pain though, surely
        you'd want to know when the solution was ready, since
        it sounded like a good enough solution when you clicked
        on the ad?
    

a) Usually these things lie on the margins - I don't remember the last time
anyone addressed any real pain points - everything is slightly more
convenient.

b) When I feel like I've been deceived, when something appears to have been
promised and then it turns out not to exist, I ask myself: Why should I trust
these people at all, ever?

c) I know it's a ploy, and I'm getting tired of it. If something's genuinely
good, really worth my time, so excellent that I immediately see that I will
save time, money, effort, and frustration, then of course I'll use it.

What's the last service you saw that genuinely delivers on such a promise?

------
evv
It would help to have a bit of context. What do you want this idea to become?

Are you creating a free we site which will earn some money with ads? Are you
trying to create a monetized, profitable service? Or are you trying to become
a venture-backed startup?

I think this has great potential as a site monetized with ads, which you could
run as a lifestyle business. But without a clearer monetization strategy, I
don't see this being viable as a venture-backed startup.

------
ColinWright
Consider it validated by at least me - I already run a similar service,
although it's user-hostile and insecure, not suitable for general use, but I
already use it and find it of value.

~~~
ilgarm
Thanks, Colin! Good to hear that I am not the only one needing such features.
Do you have any plans on launching public service?

~~~
ColinWright
This feature is a side-effect of something else I use more regularly, and I
don't have time to develop my idea. It's unlikely I would use yours because I
have my own, but I can't be the only one who would use such a facility if it
were available, nicely packaged, easy to use, uncluttered, and known.

You might also look at allowing people to share their ideal trips, so their
friends can say "Yes, let's do it."

Personally, I would guard against over-featuring it and have something simple,
clean, elegant, and immediately useful for a single purpose. Note - I have no
experience of this, and what I say could be complete rubbish.

------
zck
Why's this better than people using Pinterest to pin places they want to
travel to?

~~~
amerkhalid
I think Pinterest can be used initially for inspiration.

But a service dedicated to travel might provide more value. In my case, I
signed up with Kayak. It sends me any special offers when they get available.
But I cannot really customize those offer much.

A service that would show a world map, various offers based on planned
vacation time, social features (plan with friends), etc would be very useful,
I think. I would def. sign up.

------
kingcastro
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCg_RAdodQM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCg_RAdodQM)

~~~
ColinWright
Spam - flagged.

