
Islamic State: Giant library of group's online propaganda discovered - jimmySixDOF
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54011034
======
dalbasal
Douglas Adams on the Internet in 1999:

 _" Newsreaders still feel it is worth a special and rather worrying mention
if, for instance, a crime was planned by people ‘over the Internet.’ They
don’t bother to mention when criminals use the telephone or the M4, or discuss
their dastardly plans ‘over a cup of tea,’ though each of these was new and
controversial in their day."_

~~~
azinman2
Probably because the decentralization, reach, and scale make it materially
different where the potential harms can be so much greater. That IS was able
to recruit and inspire people across the world through their distribution of
propaganda is a prime example of this.

~~~
sushshshsh
I mean, the IRA was able to do the same with the telephone and the M4 and
lasted much longer than ISIS

~~~
dalbasal
I agree, but I don't think this is an example.

For one thing, the IRA used the M1. The M4 runs east-west. (joke). More to the
point, revolutionary republicanism and the IRA existed for a pretty long time.
A lot of those who joined the (P)IRA in the 70s were grandchildren of "old
IRA" members. True also for many of the international (mostly US) supporters.
They communicated in person.

~~~
azinman2
And notice how regional that is, stemming from a history/land divisions that
again were regional. Imagine if people were bombing for the IRA world-wide...
that is materially different.

~~~
sushshshsh
Ironically the weapons and funding for the IRA came from international
sources, much like how ISIS obtains funding and fighters from international
sources. And the IRA did this without the use of the internet in 1970. Two
principle sources were the USA and Basque country.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army_arms_importation#:~:text=In%201969%20the%20IRA%20received,receives%20weapons%20from%20Basque%20ETA).

The IRA didn't target global targets, it's true. The IRA didn't blow up
mosques in Syria. But the reason for this is that terrorists attack those who
are in power, and the large majority of that flows back to Western Europe and
USA. There are no muslim terrorists trying to get popular from murdering
school children in Belarus, for example.

------
throwme2
Alternative link with more details: [https://www.wired.co.uk/article/isis-
digital-backup](https://www.wired.co.uk/article/isis-digital-backup)

They are just using Nextcloud:

 _Rather than a data closet in Luxembourg, Isis uses a piece of software
called Nextcloud. Developed by a German company and with its roots firmly in
the open-source movement, Nextcloud is freely available for anyone to download
and use, allowing its users to synchronise files across a group in a way that
avoids any centralised hosting or control._

~~~
raxxorrax
Nextcloud is awesome and indeed in use by quite a few companies in Germany at
least.

ISIS uses it because it is safer. Wouldn't necessarily use that example as an
argument though.

Some people also used OneDrive since many already had Office licenses, but it
is just hilariously slow and your data would be a lot less safe from access.

------
ketzo
Obviously, HN is a pretty friendly place for decentralized software. But as
advocates, how do you defend it to people who don’t understand the benefits?

If I’m pitching Matrix as an alternative to Slack, and someone brings up the
fact that ISIS used one of them... what’s the response? Decentralized software
is _scary_ to someone fearful of shadowy groups. How do you successfully
advocate for software that can be used by _anyone_ , even the worst people out
there?

~~~
tifadg1
Those people are a lost cause. Its the same as how do you refute a saying
"there's nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide". You can tell your facts
and statistics, but at the end of the day it means nothing as their
understanding is based on beliefs and ideals.

~~~
remus
I don't think that's a very fair argument. It makes sense to weigh up the
legitimate uses of a technology vs. the illegitimate uses and see if the cost
is worth the benefit, and if you are unfamiliar with a certain technology then
it might not be obvious what the legitimate use cases are. To me it makes
sense to take the time and explain the good things you can do with it and why
that's worth a few people being able to abuse the technology.

------
frabcus
This Europol report gives some history of IS using decentralised tech.

[https://www.europol.europa.eu/publications-
documents/islamic...](https://www.europol.europa.eu/publications-
documents/islamic-state-group%E2%80%99s-experiments-decentralised-web)

It mentions RocketChat, ZeroNet and Riot in use from about 5 years ago.

------
jimmySixDOF
Anyone can explain this?

>"The attraction for jihadists of these platforms is that the developers of
these decentralised platforms have no way of acting against content that is
stored on user-operated servers or content that's shared across a dispersed
network of users, " BBC Monitoring senior jihadi specialist Mina Al-Lami said.

~~~
totetsu
Sounds like the people producing and distributing this media are using self
hosted and decentralised social network platforms. The people making these
platforms release them for free for anyone to use as the like, so they can't
stop jihadists. It doesn't say what they're using, but I doubt it is federated
with any non-extremist networks.

It's basically an article confused by the fact that most people have been
hypnotized into forgetting that anyone can run any software they like on a
computer and network it to another computer, without some platform having
control over what they do.

~~~
zimpenfish
> release them for free for anyone to use as the like, so they can't stop
> jihadists

"Lads, lads, the license says Jihadists can't use this?" "Oh, nuts, ok, onto
the next one, Malcolm."

------
082349872349872
What information is there on deradicalisation[1]? Would it be possible to
create an an antijihadi rabbit hole[2]?

From a /newest thread, I've found:

[https://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/MG1053.html](https://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/MG1053.html)

[https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2001/12/all-
you...](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2001/12/all-you-need-is-
love/302351/)

but surely there are better resources?

(The indirect approach taken in the latter article agrees with Linebarger[3]
on counterpropaganda:

> "Enemy propaganda should, in well conducted operations, be taken into
> account only when it becomes an asset. That is, the enemy need only be
> heeded when he tells a whopping lie, or comes forth with a piece of
> hyprocrisy so offensive to his own people that it needs little improvement
> to be adapted for counterpropaganda. Most enemy themes are beyond reach,
> especially those of inter-ideological warfare. The Nazis and Russians made
> the best propaganda against each other when they got down to the basic
> necessities of life, not when they were trying to weave finespun theories
> about each other's way of thinking or of life. Refutation is a joy; it is
> delightful to talk back. But the best propaganda is only incidentally
> counterpropaganda.")

[1] it is my hope that after US D's and R's learn to converse with each other,
they will apply the same techniques to converse with, say, french
interlocutors, or even optimistically, other others.

[2] "Actual happiness always looks pretty squalid in comparison with the over-
compensations for misery. And, of course, stability isn't nearly so
spectacular as instability. And being contented has none of the glamour of a
good fight against misfortune, none of the picturesqueness of a struggle with
temptation, or a fatal overthrow by passion or doubt. Happiness is never
grand."

[3]
[http://www.gutenberg.org/files/48612/48612-h/48612-h.htm#Pag...](http://www.gutenberg.org/files/48612/48612-h/48612-h.htm#Page_48)

------
aaron695
At least someone is archiving it!

Here's a Syrian Civil War archive (230GB of content)

[https://twitter.com/Rebel44CZ/status/1298223195926016000](https://twitter.com/Rebel44CZ/status/1298223195926016000)

Others are at least archiving some of it.

------
Animats
What, no link so we can read it?

You can still read Dabiq.[1] That was ISIL's magazine, in English. It's worth
reading, but not taking too seriously.

Kids in school should be exposed to extremist propaganda from all sides. Start
with the extremist propaganda of another era, say the 1920s - the Industrial
Workers of the World, the German-American Bund, the Communist Party of the
USA, Technocracy, America First (the Lindburgh version, not the Trump
version), etc. This is a survival skill today.

[1]
[http://www.ieproject.org/projects/dabiq1.pdf](http://www.ieproject.org/projects/dabiq1.pdf)

~~~
sassypotato
It's a shame really. Reminds me of how whenever there is a right-wing
terrorist attack/mass murder everyone, including tech companies, try to hide
manifestos and other media as much as possible.

What happened to the truth setting us free.

------
sassypotato
So, how can I peruse said library?

