
A family converts a decommissioned school into a home and bed-and-breakfast - myth_drannon
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/home-and-garden/real-estate/toronto-family-ditches-the-city-for-home-schooling-in-prince-edwardcounty/article28428562/
======
bane
I always like these kinds of stories, and then I wonder what the after-story
is. A couple hundred thousand in repairs, renovation and remodeling, I'm
guessing the occasional B&B guest doesn't provide a huge amount of income.
What do people who do this (move out to extreme rural areas and buy enormous
and expensive to maintain offbeat homes like schools, churches, power plants
and missile silos) do for a living to afford this?

I'd love to go out to random-rural-county and buy 20 acres of land and a
school and turn it into a huge home, but then I'd be hours away from where I
need to go to make the money to do that.

There's always some other parts of the financial story that never seems to
come through in these kinds of articles.

~~~
cgh
They sold their house in Toronto, one of the most expensive cities in North
America, and probably made a couple of million or so. The school was only
$190,000 plus whatever it took to fix it up.

As the article states, the area is a tourism hub so their B&B is probably
quite busy. Otherwise, assuming they own the school free and clear and grow a
lot of their own food, I imagine they don't have many expenses.

~~~
goodJobWalrus
You seem to think that they owned their house in Toronto outright, which is
rare for a young family, especially in such expensive area. Also, median
detached house price in Toronto is just over a million, so if they got a
couple of million, they had above average house as well, so it's still not
clear how are they affording all of that. But, I don't think that's the point
of the article, maybe they are trust fund babies, who cares.

~~~
Scoundreller
> Also, median detached house price in Toronto is just over a million, so if
> they got a couple of million

Be careful, the Canadian real estate industry always publishes _average_
_sales_ prices, not _median_ prices, and not median valuations.

Which is why the numbers are rubbish: Their numbers are biased toward by
whatever turns over more, and by a small number of high value sales.

It's the same reason why average income is a farce. The average of 4
unemployed homeless individuals and a $250k/yr lawyer is $50k/year. The median
is zero and more representative of reality.

Once the industry starts publishing the average valuation of a 3bd 1.5ba home
(detached or not, there's not a lot of detached inventory left!), listen to
them. Until then, ignore their self-serving statistical butchery.

------
danans
I think this is a great example of a growing societal acceptance of people
experimenting and choosing alternative styles of housing and also city
organization, especially ones that involve reclaiming/re-purposing space. The
article's particular example focuses on redefinition and reuse of an existing
structure in a very sparsely populated area.

In dense areas, other ways of re-purposing space are happening. Everyone has
seen former industrial facilities converted into multi-unit housing. But these
ideas are even creeping into traditional neighborhoods. In my case, I would
love to convert my second parking spot into additional living space.

The idea is, with urban neighborhood land values so high (at least in booming
areas), it's hard to justify providing housing for a second car).

Of course, this isn't even a new idea. For decades people have been kicking
their cars to the curb so they can use their garages for other purposes (gym,
workshop, playroom,...). In the coming decades, as people move more towards
uber/lyft style services for transportation, I can see a lot of prime space
formerly occupied by cars being freed up for creative re-use.

~~~
roel_v
Renovating is more expensive than rebuilding. Renovated nice old buildings are
a luxury, not a savings measure (I live in one, which we renovated ourselves -
would've been cheaper and better to knock down and rebuild)

~~~
danjayh
Depends on the building. We bought a house from the 40's on the small side
(1500sf) that needed plumbing, electric service, all flooring surfaces
replaced, kitchen guttend/replaced, both baths guttened/replaced, all
appliances, and significant mechanical (furnace, water softener+filter),
addition of closets, replaced deck, and probably stuff that I'm forgetting.
Had a good roof, which was critical, because water damage would have sunk it
(har har har). We did a lot of the work ourselves, saves a bundle. Contracted
for about $40k of it up front to get it livable quickly.

Somewhat related to the story - I bought a pellet boiler off craigslist for
$2800 and did 100% of the installation myself (electrical, plumbing [heat +
water heater], control) all-in was about $3900, and I'm already in the black
on it after 3 years use (vs. propane). I decided to burn lpg this year because
it was 'only' $1.70/gal, and it turns out that even at that low price
(compared to the last three years) I'd probably have been better off on
pellets, but probably not better off enough to make up for all of the labor
that it takes.

I set it up to automatically switch between the propane furnace and the boiler
(I have a water/air hx) based on the boiler's temperature to make it seamless
for my wife to use :). It's a Central Boiler Maxim M175 ... cranked all the
way up, it might be able to heat his school (just barely) -- I run it at its
lowest setting. Burns very clean, no smoke, happy neighbors.

Renovation _can_ be done for a reasonable financial cost with an investment of
time. Our house isn't super-luxury now, but it's perfectly serviceable and now
we have a house on 11 acres that we couldn't have touched if it hadn't been a
dump when we bought it.

------
thenipper
In an old job I worked for an affordable housing developer who did this with
properties down in New Bedford, MA. We'd turn old schools into affordable
housing units. Same with a hospital in Connecticut. It's a great way to
increase the number of affordable units while using old buildings.

EDIT: Here is an example: [http://www.wihed.org/wp-
content/uploads/2012/09/Acushnet-Com...](http://www.wihed.org/wp-
content/uploads/2012/09/Acushnet-Commons.pdf)

------
mey
McMenamins did this in east Portland [http://www.mcmenamins.com/427-kennedy-
school-home](http://www.mcmenamins.com/427-kennedy-school-home)

~~~
scotje
They also recently did a similar project in Bothell, WA:
[http://www.mcmenamins.com/AndersonSchool](http://www.mcmenamins.com/AndersonSchool)

------
utefan001
Similar story.

These Vegas transplants bought a small-town Nebraska schoolhouse and let their
artistic flags fly.

[http://www.omaha.com/living/these-vegas-transplants-
bought-a...](http://www.omaha.com/living/these-vegas-transplants-bought-a-
small-town-nebraska-schoolhouse-
and/article_c47a8a28-a2ad-5907-bbb5-fc5d878f0c9c.html)

------
sandworm101
Note the firewood. Lots and lots of firewood. Those high ceilings and
cavernous rooms are a nightmare to heat. That wood stove must run 24/7.

I'm all for re-purposing, but there is a point at which a building built for
one purpose just isn't suitable for any other. Elementary school into
residence/home might be that line.

~~~
anon01292016
It works for some (with means). The Human Genome Project's Eric Lander lives
in a converted 10k ft^2 schoolhouse in Cambridge:

[http://connect.bostonmagazine.com/articles/?p=3392](http://connect.bostonmagazine.com/articles/?p=3392)

Architect's photos:
[http://www.maryannthompson.com/projects/proj25.html](http://www.maryannthompson.com/projects/proj25.html)

------
scrumper
This looks great, and their kids will look back and feel very lucky to have
grown up here. As a US resident, I can't help but wonder whether:

\- Property taxes (it's _huge_ )

\- Building code

\- Zoning

Would prevent something like that happening here.

~~~
guyzero
The headline says "Toronto family" but the school itself is pretty rural and
not that near Toronto. I expect taxes are lower than their urban house and
zoning is pretty relaxed.

[https://www.google.com/maps/place/Milford,+ON+K0K,+Canada/@4...](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Milford,+ON+K0K,+Canada/@43.9351176,-77.6512341,9z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x89d7b86348a84699:0xb01b729c26d910b4)

They can nearly see Mexico from their house! (Mexico, NY that is)

~~~
jbob2000
That's a 1.5 hour drive from Toronto, not even considered the Greater Toronto
Area. I am sure the Globe is putting them under the Toronto umbrella to get
views; who the hell could afford to do this in Toronto... oh wait it's not
Toronto, but you already gave them your traffic.

~~~
gtk40
See my comment to your parent. I don't think it's about getting more views,
when talking about a transition from city to country. In the second paragraph:
"They had been ruminating for years, however, about leaving Toronto for a more
free-spirited life in the country with their three young daughters."

------
nobody_nowhere
"In the last year of its operation, the heating oil bill for the school was
$38,000 and the electricity was another $10,000. They needed a better system."

------
shirro
I would love to live in an unconventional house. There are schools closing in
surrounding farming areas regularly but most are too much travelling time and
poor Internet access.

When there are some good ones with decent services not far from population,
the government seems to have problems getting the schools on the market. By
the time anyone can buy them they would be ruins.

------
qahs_user
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Anne_High_School,_Seattl...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Anne_High_School,_Seattle)

------
ctdonath
Bravo on the out-of-the-box thinking. Nice to see someone make such an
opportunity happen, showing others that status quo need not be adhered to.

I once seriously considered buying a defunct health club for the same domestic
purpose. Adapting the locker rooms seemed the most daunting aspect, but the
3-lane full-length indoor pool was awful tempting.

Notice how far out the family had to go to make it work: fully insulating
walls, wood heat, and a large garden among other factors.

~~~
slantyyz
>> Notice how far out the family had to go to make it work: fully insulating
walls, wood heat, and a large garden among other factors.

On the plus side, I'm guessing that the sale of their Toronto home left them
with a lot of budget to do that work though.

IIRC, the average selling price of a home in Toronto is floating around $1M
these days, and the school cost "only" $190K.

~~~
the_unknown
And not just any part of Toronto - High Park. They were pretty well off to
start with going with that as the base.

Good for them on using their money to fund a great learning/growing experience
for their kids.

~~~
jacquesm
I lived two streets down from there. High Park has both very posh houses and
not-so-posh (as in: derelict) ones, it's very much a mixed bag there,
especially on the North-East side.

------
logn
Church converted to condos:
[https://www.coldwellbankerhomes.com/ky/bellevue/320-poplar-s...](https://www.coldwellbankerhomes.com/ky/bellevue/320-poplar-
street/pid_9936293/#)

------
c3534l
Now that I think about it, every old schoolhouse I've come across was turned
into a bar.

------
Scoundreller
Chances are the nearest school for the 3 daughters could not be further
away...

~~~
dalke
No more than 16km to the nearest public elementary school, according to
[https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Queen+Elizabeth+Public+Schoo...](https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Queen+Elizabeth+Public+School,+Picton,+Prince+Edward+County,+Ontario,+Canada/43.9350744,-77.1020501/@43.9551262,-77.1452028,10691m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m10!4m9!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d7ca551fce466f:0xd089bcae4057a3ce!2m2!1d-77.145692!2d44.009946!1m0!3e0!5i2)
.

The secondary school is further, at about 50km to Belleville.

------
giarc
I hope the wood splitting picture was staged. Those girls are a few feet from
a man swinging an axe splitting wood. That's an accident waiting to happen.

~~~
lcr94
I do not believe it was staged. While there is a risk of danger, I believe it
is a small risk. Perhaps a the axe head flies off, or a block of wood shoots
out and hits the kid. But those risks are small, and it doesn't make a lot of
sense to spare a child the experience of physically working to heat your
dwelling in order to insure they are safe from an unlikely accident.

Anecdotally, my dad and I drove into the woods and cut down trees for the
fireplace in my family's house. After he cut down the tree, he would cut the
tree into 1 foot rounds and then split them with a maul. The cut, triangular
pieces had to be loaded and stacked into the back of a pickup, and it was back
breaking work.

However, every time the work was done, I remember feeling a sense of
accomplishment and contemplating how it was the drudgery that ultimately
created that feeling.

I think that we should not spare our children these enormously valuable
learning experiences in the name of safety.

~~~
logfromblammo
Your dad could have stacked logs in the truck and cut them to length and split
them near the permanent stack location. Otherwise, you're stacking once in the
truck bed and then again at the woodpile. Perhaps he was building your
character instead of seeking efficiency.

A little bit of gratuitous labor helps the lesson sink in. So maybe you set up
a little contest with your victi-er, kid. You each take half the logs and
whoever finishes first wins. You even let the kid get a head start. They're
concentrating hard because they want to win. But behind their back, you're
using a log splitter instead of a maul. When you yell out "done!" they look
around, and see that you "cheated". Hopefully, they learn the value of
appropriate technology over brow sweat.

That guy shouldn't be swinging that maul so close to his kids, not for safety
reasons, because he should be using at least a lever-operated log splitter
instead.

