
California Secession Making Headway in Silicon Valley Community - the_decider
https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/10/calexit-is-silicon-valleys-plan-to-pack-up-its-toys-and-leave/
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kinghajj
States cannot legally secede unilaterally, and there's a no chance in hell
Congress would approve. Unless you're willing to form a militia against the US
Army that surely would be sent in--which, ironically for California, is more
difficult because of the stricter gun control. (Reason had a great headline
yesterday--something like, "Trump's election makes liberals realize appeal of
limited government.")

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Hyperborian
On the other hand, a very significant number of military bases (packed full of
military weapons and equipment) are in California, and thanks to California's
out-sized population a major portion of the current active military are native
Californians. That's not even taking in to account National Guard units and
such.

California would take a very significant chunk of the US military _with it_ if
it left the union, and there are native Californians (who, if they backed
California, could cause many problems) in key positions throughout the rest of
the military as well.

Form a militia? That's ridiculous. California would be a global military power
right out the gate, and a nuclear one at that.

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relics443
You do realize that most members of the military love their country and would
not secede? That's why they put their lives on the line.

And if you think the US military would simply allow "New California" to take
its weapons and facilities, then I have a bridge to sell you.

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mc32
California is not a monolith --like Hispanics are not a monolithic bloc (~30%
voted republican). The central valley and the sierras are conservative and
they have the water. Water from the Colorado? Goodbye! Welcome to the
waterless republic of coastal California right next to the state of inland
California with all the water.

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relics443
Few questions:

1\. Lots of talk about California and its economy. Is a possible reason it has
such a strong economy because it's a part of the USA? Would it continue to
have a strong economy as its own nation state?

2\. How would they defend themselves military? Texas seems to have a lot more
military inclined folk than California. What would they do without the support
of the US Army?

3\. If they put it to a vote, they need 2/3 yes to pass. The Democrats didn't
have that many votes for Hillary in the presidential election. What makes
anyone think that all Democrats + some Republicans would be OK with this?
Forget about the rest of the states.

4\. Did this joker really suggest that "small states with little diversity
shouldn't determine Presidency"? Are you serious. Get a grip!

~~~
flukus
For number 2, they wouldn't need a strong military, they've got friends on all
sides. The US military goes well beyond what's needed to protect itself.

For 3, part of that is because of how the electoral college works, a lot of
democratic voter probably didn't vote. Of course that goes both ways, who
knows what the real numbers are.

~~~
relics443
I'd think the US would not be California's greatest friend if this were to
happen. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

According to data from Google and Wikipedia, 2.5 million registered democrats
didn't vote Democrat and 2 million Republicans didn't vote Republican. Non
voters probably don't factor in. I'd think that non voters would be less
likely to support secession.

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piotrjurkiewicz
Hilarious!

Most of you (HN commentators) were bashing Britons when they decided to leave
the EU (which policies they don't like), calling them backwards, xenophobic,
etc.

And now you want to do the same. And perceive it as 'progressive'.

Moreover:

1\. EU had been imposing unpopular polices over Britons for years. Trump
administration hasn't introduced any policy yet, moreover, it hasn't formed
yet.

2\. Trump and Pence were _elected_ in a direct democratic elections. European
Commission president and all commissioners are being _appointed_ by ruling
elites.

In future political science textbooks this will serve as a prominent example
of the phenomenon named 'liberal hypocrisy'.

~~~
Upvoter33
As a "liberal", and one (from the sounds of it) who would likely disagree with
many of your political stances, I am in complete agreement with what you have
said here.

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maverick_iceman
Interesting. Brexit or Texit are bigoted, racist, xenophobic concepts but
Calexit is moral, liberal and progressive?

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birken
Quite the false equivalency.

There have been clear situations where a territory has declared independence
for reasons that were somewhat bigoted, racist and xenophobic (the
confederacy), and many instances where a territory has declared independence
for reasons that were not primarly bigoted, racist and xenophobic (probably
most times, including the USA itself). Though of course all of these
situations are much more complicated than those descriptors.

I'm not suggesting Calexit is a good idea at all, but suggesting an idea is
good or not because there is some imagined liberal hypocrisy is not fair.
Evaluate the idea on its merits.

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joshlittle
This would probably kick off a trend if it were successful here. None of the
other blue states would be satisfied with the loss of our progressive
electoral college voting bloc. It'd put Republicans in the awkward position of
denouncing the progressive left's sudden support of states' rights.

California, on the other hand, would continue to be a terrific place to live.

Preliminarily I would consider supporting #Calexit

~~~
mc32
Yeah, till the other states take the water rights away. Or the conservative
sierras secede in turn and then you have no snowmelt either.

But really, this is ill-advised. It's the same thing in Alaska when they don't
like the winner -they whine. People don't realize that as LatAm immigrants
assimilate into the fabric and Americanize, they tend to drift conservative,
so be careful what you wish for.

Also, remember, once California's electoral college is disbanded, goodbye
democrats for what, 40, 50 years in the rest of the states? For this reason
democrats in the other states would be against it --they'd lose their
California democratic bank (monetarily, electorally and congressionally)

~~~
joshlittle
Depending on the outcome, I think that we'd be able to figure some solution
that works for what would become the nation of California (based on what land
actually CalExits.)

Worst case scenario - either de-salt the water in the ocean, or buy it. If the
United States can sell electricity with Mexico given our contentious at times
relationship, I'm sure we could figure it out.

Totally agree with you - in principle it would be difficult, messy, and would
very much be a disruptive conversation to have with America.

Then again, even the Trump campaign expected they would be unsuccessful in the
end.

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Upvoter33
This is stupid for so many reasons, and un-American. I only wonder what
Lincoln would say, who gave his life to preserve the Union and American
Experiment.

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fixxer
The same effect could be gotten with less federal government and massive
expansion of states rights... Irony.

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seanmcdirmid
I was going to say, this is crazy it will never happen. Like the UK leaving
the EU, the cubs winning the World Series, or Trump getting elected, this will
never happen either.

Then I realized this is the year that anything could happen so...

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carsongross
The importance here is not the possibility of immediate secession: there is
almost zero chance of that. The importance is that it is getting the left to
take secession seriously as a concept.

Eventually we will need to separate out different sovereignties if we all wish
to live in peace, in the types of communities we want. Peaceful secessionism
is the moral way forward, but it will take many decades for it to work it's
way into everyones brain as a legitimate possibility.

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CalChris
I'm just tired of California paying for moocher Mississippi, Arkansas,
Kentucky, ...

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maverick_iceman
Also please don't flag this article. I just noticed that an article about
Grubhub CEO telling Trump supporter employees to resign has been flagged. I
hope there is no systematic trend in this sort of flagging.

~~~
rz2k
There are a lot of people who don't want to have to have the argument about
why this sort of cute posturing, much like talking about the popular vote
count[1] undermines the serious work they think needs to be done.

It fits a convenient narrative for a moment--we'll show them! However it is
not a movement, and is an expression of despair by a small number rather than
an actual desire to secede. The temporary defeatist attitude, too, ends up
getting quoted, long after people have figured out to move on productively.

To a lesser extent I think a focus on choosing DNC scapegoats sets back the
important self examination that needs to be accomplished by people who were
certain that the policy directions they were pursuing would also be beneficial
to the people who voted for Trump. Was it a message delivery problem, a
failure to understand a broader spectrum of grievances than economic pressures
alone?

[1] It doesn't matter whether a shift away from electoral college would be
better in the context of Nov 8, 2016, because the well known parameters of the
electoral college determined voters' participation rates and the candidates'
strategies.

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willary
Lol given the current California budget situation, would not recommend.

~~~
CalChris
California has a pretty good budget situation, not perfect but much better.
Indeed we have a surplus. The problem with CA and with most other states is
long term public employee retirement costs.

The citizens raised taxes and gave Brown Democratic supermajorities which shut
down Republican budget brinksmanship. Brown has righted the ship that
Schwarzenegger left but medium term will require restructuring those
retirement commitments.

Schwarzenegger was pretty much the same as Gray Davis. Not the worst, not the
best but unwilling to do the really hard budget work. Jerry Brown lives to
work.

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th0br0
Quite eerie, seeing these parallels to Designated Survivor.

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chinese_donald
Before the election (when all the Democrats thought they would be in control):
We need to accept the election results. Protesting the decision hurts our
democracy.

After they lose: Massive protests and a desire to secede from the the US.

If Republicans would have protested or suggested a secession after a Hillary
win, they would be called 'sexist'. Democrats are sore losers. Republicans
endured 8 years of Obama and never protested like this.

Instead of shunning half the country, figure out why you lost.

~~~
flukus
Remember how much condemnation Trump got for saying he might not accept the
election result?

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asurachadtrot
I support #Calexit and I hope this will not just be saying and playing. Trump
is a successful businessman and he knows strategy very well. He must already
have plans for those protestors, so for those who are really serious about
this issue, we should not give in easily.

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vishnubansal
Don't want to sound like an extremist, but I do support #Calexit. The economic
impact of California is tremendous not only for US but for the whole world,
therefore, it's a great bargaining power against Trump.

~~~
willary
How this not extremist, your protesting some hypothetical scenario you have on
your mind? There is nothing concrete to protest. Liberals are protesting a
Democrat who won running as a Republican, it's hard to understand why that
upsets liberals. He's for gay marriage. He's for abortion, he more socially
liberal than clinton and less pro war than clinton

