
Why the “Learn to Code” Meme Is Toxic and Shouldn't Be Used - majikarp
https://zeroequalsfalse.press/posts/why-learn-to-code-is-toxic/
======
smush
So this meme didn't come from nowhere. Blue collar professions have been given
this 'helpful advice' by journalists quite a bit over the years. It was tone
deaf then, and still so now. I admit I don't yet see why it's verboten/'toxic'
to parrot this same tone deaf advice to journalists now?

I admit I haven't wandered through the more dilapidated internet street
corners lately, so perhaps it's become toxic due to the sheer volume of use
where its no longer something to be seen in good fun, or perhaps we are
running low on goodwill as a society to be able to enjoy a joke?

Setting that entire matter aside, the article has (to me) a somewhat tenuous
argument that saying the tone deaf joke of 'learn to code' is disrespectful to
programmers and the like. I'm not sure about that, but I don't have a coherent
reason to articulate that just yet.

~~~
etg34525
Did all the journalists being targeted by this actually tell blue collar
workers to learn coding? I've searched on my own and found articles about
"this company in west virginia that's training coal miners to code" or "jobs
that will be automated in 10 years - is your's next?", but I don't
specifically see or recall journalists telling displaced workers that coding
would fix their problems. If anyone here can provide examples of that, I would
appreciate it.

If this was a widespread thing that many journalists spouted, I understand the
outcry. If only a few journalists spouted this nonsense, then I don't think
it's fair to punish an entire industry over some bad apples.

What I suspect is that the "learn to code" push was more of a society-wide
meme trafficked by politicians, economists, and tech CEOs. And I have to
imagine that some journalists gave those people a platform. But perhaps I'm
looking at the wrong evidence?

EDIT: dexen's post found maybe one example: A Buzzfeed quiz that suggests
coding could become the next blue collar profession. That kind of fits the
"learn to code" meme. The other articles dexen posted were actually counter to
that - An article where Michael Bloomberg said learning to code is unrealistic
for many displaced workers, and another article about coal miners proving him
wrong.

Is that it? Or are there more examples?

~~~
leereeves
Whether it was journalists pushing it, or "politicians, economists, and tech
CEOs" pushing it, and journalists merely repeating it, I don't know.

But I definitely remember hearing that message in the media for the last 20
years, and I don't recall anyone calling it "trolling" until it was directed
at journalists.

~~~
etg34525
Well it's important to know what was actually said and who said it. If, by and
large, journalists did not actually advocate for displaced workers to code
their way out of unemployment, then harassing them with #learntocode is
unjustified.

I've wasted the entire morning looking for sources of this by now. Like you, I
sort of remembered hearing that message over the years. But now that I'm
looking, I'm not actually finding many examples where news outlets are
seriously suggesting this.

Have you ever thought you knew something, but end up misremembering it? There
are lots of people who swear they remember a movie called Shazzam staring
Sinbad as a genie, but there is no such movie. There was a movie called Kazaam
staring Shaquille O'Neal, and Sinbad once dressed up in similar garb when
hosting a movie showing. But people conflated the two things.

I think that's whats going on. And if so, we should not be harassing
journalists who had nothing to do with this.

------
dexen
_> Currently (...)_

Way to start with a false premise. The meme died out by now[1].

 _> The phrase “Learn to Code” was initially posted on Twitter after the
layoffs at BuzzFeed and the Huffington Post._

Way to continue with a false premise.

The phrase was used literally [2], and the subject was referenced [3] by
numerous newspapers and other media outlets back when the economy was tanking,
as a _helpful_ suggestion to laid off workers - miners, autoworkers, and so
on. "Those jobs aren't coming back" and all that. The only concern back then
was of practicality, and nobody in their right mind considered it to be a put
down of the workes, or of programmers.

Yes, the phrase may seem insensitive from our, programmer's, POV. Nonetheless,
there's a historical precedent to it, based off of much wider segment of
society than just programmers.

I find it shameful that Twitter, in its infinite wisdom, decided to suppress
the accompanying hashtag, and later on even went as far started penalizing the
posters. It used to be understood as a good idea back then, it's still
considered a good idea now-a-day. I think it was shot down only for the
expediency of keeping the journalists a-buzz on Twitter.

\--

[1]
[https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%203-m&q=...](https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%203-m&q=%22learn%20to%20code%22)

[2]
[https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/katienotopoulos/should-...](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/katienotopoulos/should-
you-learn-to-code)

[3] [https://gigaom.com/2014/04/09/michael-bloomberg-you-cant-
tea...](https://gigaom.com/2014/04/09/michael-bloomberg-you-cant-teach-a-coal-
miner-to-code/) and [https://www.wired.com/2015/11/can-you-teach-a-coal-miner-
to-...](https://www.wired.com/2015/11/can-you-teach-a-coal-miner-to-code/)

~~~
lm28469
> Way to start with a false premise. The meme died out by now

Change the dates and look at the graph, I don't think you can say such a trend
died by looking at the last 90 days.

[https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=%22learn...](https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=%22learn%20to%20code%22)

We still see articles about teaching kids to code, either at home or in school
almost weekly on HN.

------
anoncoward111
The reason the learn to code meme is popular with 4chan is because some
journalists were insinuating that coal miners and truck drivers will have to
learn how to code in order to pay their bills.

Now that journalists are being told to learn how to code to pay their bills,
it is controversial.

------
hanoz
The "Learn to Code" meme in its current evolution, i.e. as thrown back in the
faces of journalists, is pointedly in defense of the value and difficulty of
software development which the article espouses.

------
wtdata
We should be aware that the meme has origin on journalists themselves.

When blue collar workers faced job shortages due to environmental regulations
(I am not arguing those were wrong of course, just putting it into
perspective), journalists suggested those workers to "learn to code" in some
very insensitive remarks.

Now, those words are being thrown back at journalists facing job shortages
themselves.

~~~
etg34525
Do you remember which journalists made those remarks? I'm trying to find the
source of this.

~~~
wtdata
The Know Your Meme article about it has quite a lot of info and some sources
for the old articles: [https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/learn-to-
code?full=1](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/learn-to-code?full=1)

------
lenticular
I think this author is a bit too easily offended. Software engineering is a
good job but we're not better than anyone else.

------
wdhilliard
This author doesnt understand sarcasm - another reason I tend to ignore anyone
who uses the word "toxic" outside of health and safety.

------
brodouevencode
Software engineer for 12 years, in IT for 18.

Not in the slightest bit offended by this. No one should be. It's a silly
meme.

------
bibyte
Why do people think that software engineering is the ultimate job in the world
? Sure it pays well and is generally a good job but other jobs are important
too. Our modern lifestyle isn't solely built by software engineers. The meme
is that everyone should learn to code is as silly as saying everyone should be
an astronaut.

~~~
nkrisc
My belief is that because people who don't know anything about writing
software think it's easy and pays lots of money because you understand this
arcane language that seems mystical to them.

------
everdrive
I'm not sure it's toxic. Ideas can't hurt people, not really.

That said, I don't think most people can code very effectively. It requires a
person to be generally intelligent, and then to specialize in a narrow part of
computer science. "Learn to Code" is great advice, but it should probably be
understood that everyone who's being displaced won't become effective coders.

~~~
AnimalMuppet
> I'm not sure it's toxic. Ideas can't hurt people, not really.

Jesus said "The truth will set you free."[1] The corollary is that lies make
you a slave. Ideas can definitely hurt people - especially ideas that are
believed.

In this context, the idea that I need to learn to code could be very harmful
if I believe it, devote time and money into learning how to code, and find out
that I can't code well enough to get a job (or that I hate it). Now I'm out a
bunch of time and money that I could have spent learning how to do something
else that fit me better.

Even worse is if I conclude that "coding = success, not being able to code =
failure", and therefore that I am currently a failure, and a permanent failure
if I fail to learn how to code. That can be massively harmful.

The meme itself isn't a big deal. Directing some smack talk at the media is
completely fair game. If someone takes the meme seriously, however, it can
definitely hurt people. (Don't take career advice from memes. Even more, don't
take advice as to your identity or value as a human being from memes.) \-- [1]
Actually, he said that if you followed his teaching, you would know the truth,
and the truth would set you free - it was spiritual truth and spiritual
freedom he was talking about. I'm taking his words more broadly than perhaps
he meant them.

~~~
everdrive
This is a great response.

I think I probably could have caveated a little better, and said something
like:

"People are throwing around the word 'toxic' far too freely. I'm worried about
over-sensitivity and censorship. Because of these concerns, I'm apt to push
back on characterizations that words and ideas are harmful, even if the ideas
themselves are flawed and open to criticism. Specifically, flawed ideas that
deserve to be criticized can't really hurt you in the way that 'toxic'
implies."

------
0815test
Related:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19336925](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19336925)

Tim Apple himself is saying that colleges are not doing enough to teach folks
to code! Acknowledging this underlying reality, even in a somewhat provocative
way, is hardly "toxic".

------
hellllllllooo
It's supposed to be a jab at fired journalists and not serious career advice
which is how the author appears to have taken it. The toxic part is not that
learning to code is going to solve all their problems and be all "rainbows and
unicorns" but that it is mocking people for being laid off, whoever they are.

------
jressey
I disagree. Hearing this about a decade ago was the kick in the pants that I
needed to get my life in shape. I realize it doesn't work out for everybody,
but demystifying software development as something anybody can do is
excellent.

What hurts our industry is the ninja/hero culture where devs burn the midnight
oil for no overtime. If you want to be respected as professionals, behave like
a lawyer. What would your lawyer say if you told him he needed to do a
Saturday night deployment?

------
adamnemecek
Feels like he started with the conclusion and worked in a premise.

------
egberts1
Virtue signaling, much?

