
How Turbans Helped Some Blacks Go Incognito in the Jim Crow Era - TheBiv
http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2014/07/19/332380449/how-turbans-helped-some-blacks-go-incognito-in-the-jim-crow-era
======
satjot
As a Sikh American that wears a turban every day
[[https://www.facebook.com/satjot](https://www.facebook.com/satjot)], it's
great to see a positive piece on Turbans in the US. For the most part I've
dealt with comments like, "Hey Osama", "You Towel Head", "Taliban!"...

~~~
dmritard96
I'm really sad to hear this.

~~~
judk
Even sadder is the fact that (according to a recent Algerian speaking at TED),
while westerners are calling all Muslims (and Sikhs) terrorists, they ignore
that 85% of the direct victims of terrorism (ignoring USA drone strikes etc)
are non-fundamentalist _Muslims_ in Afghanistan, Algeria, Egypt, etc.

~~~
disputin
Do "westerners call all Muslims (and Sikhs) terrorists"? Rubbish.

Do "they ignore that 85% of the direct victims of terrorism ... are non-
fundamentalist Muslims"? No, they don't.

People throwing around blanket statements while complaining about blanket
statements.

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mjn
Minor nitpick, though with this caveat the article is great:

> At the time, ideas of race in America were quite literally black and white.

Not so much America as specifically the south, where white vs. black was the
dividing line, and anyone nonblack was "close enough" to white, at least for
the purposes of politics and segregation. In the north, where the white-
vs.-black line wasn't as front-and-center, dynamics were different, and there
was a higher bar for just _how_ white you had to be to really be white. During
some parts of the 20th century, Arabs, Jews, Greeks, Italians, Indians, etc.
wouldn't be allowed entry to "whites-only" establishments in New York, even
though they were white enough for a "whites-only" restaurant in Atlanta.

edit: Although now that I think of it, this would probably be true for some
things even in the north. For example the "no selling to negroes" deed
restrictions in Chicago, as far as I can find, really meant you could sell to
_anyone_ except a black person, including some people with quite dark skin.
Race is complex, I guess.

~~~
pessimizer
You exaggerate the difference between the north and south in regards to race.
You overestimate the tolerance of the south to Jews, or people with foreign
accents, and you underestimate the discrimination against blacks in the north.
Restrictions against selling to blacks were not unique to Chicago, they were
largely universal. The NAR regarded introducing new ethnicities into a
neighborhood as an ethics violation until 1968.

[http://www.inman.com/2014/04/17/realtor-code-of-ethics-
once-...](http://www.inman.com/2014/04/17/realtor-code-of-ethics-once-
required-discrimination/)

published in New York:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Negro_Motorist_Green_Book](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Negro_Motorist_Green_Book)

~~~
nightpool
I get how he might underestimate the intolerance in the South, but I didn't
get the sense he was doing so in the North? In fact, he seemed to be saying
the North was MORE intolerant, in a lot of ways, then the South could be
sometimes.

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maxdemarzi
This goes sideways as well. I was dating an Indian girl in High School (almost
20 years ago). If any older Indian men were around or crossed our path, she
would say a few words in spanish. They would assume she was Mexican which
would make it none-of-their-business who this "Mexican girl" dated and would
stop staring.

~~~
yummyfajitas
This happens today also. Strangely, I observed this more in the us than in
India.

I'm now in India and have dated a number of African girls here. I'm very tall,
Africans are tall, Indians are short, hence I am the last man on earth. The
reaction of Indians is interesting. If they look up at the girl (I.e. they are
5'8", she is 6'2"), they say I should marry her. If they look straight (she is
5'9") they say I should find a white girl.

~~~
masklinn
> This happens today also. Strangely, I observed this more in the us than in
> India.

That makes a perverse but common amount of sense: by being strict in their
adherence to their original culture (where in the old country things are
usually more fluid) they aim to show they haven't been swayed/corrupted by the
one they're now living in.

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themoonbus
My uncle immigrated to South Carolina from India in the 1960's, and worked as
an engineer at an otherwise white company.

The Christmas party was at a segregated establishment, and they had no idea
what to do with him. I think that ultimately they decided that it was ok for
"others" to attend, even though by skin color, he was definitely closer to the
black end of the spectrum.

Must have been a fun party.

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analog31
My parents had a friend who used this trick in the early 1950s, to get into
restaurants. They told the story to my siblings and me, to illustrate the
stupidity of racism.

On the other hand, I had a summer internship during college, where one of the
employees was a white guy and wore a turban. He told me that he got searched
every time he crossed the border between the US and Canada, during the period
before 9-11 when most people just got waved across.

~~~
ceejayoz
"You've been randomly selected for a screening" is a bunch of bull. It's sure
as hell not entirely random.

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tokenadult
A good long-form story (and a true story that is quite gripping) about how
changing the classification can change the perception of the person is the
book _Black Like Me_ by John Howard Griffin,[1] which I read once in childhood
and reread a few years ago. Powerful stuff. It's stark to understand that
events like the events described in the book happened during the lifetime of a
lot of people still living today.

[1] [http://www.amazon.com/Black-Like-50th-Anniversary-
Edition/dp...](http://www.amazon.com/Black-Like-50th-Anniversary-
Edition/dp/0451234219)

~~~
daviddaviddavid
And for a hilarious satirical romp which treads similar territory, see _Black
No More_ by George Schuyler:

[http://www.amazon.com/Black-No-More-George-
Schuyler/dp/04864...](http://www.amazon.com/Black-No-More-George-
Schuyler/dp/0486480402)

------
drakaal
Interesting read, especially since today you might be called a "towel head".

I find in my day to day interactions that these days Blacks are less
discriminated against than many others, but it seems it is now less about
color and more about accent.

Likely what I am seeing is a bias against non-European immigrants.

Being a well spoken Black is fine to hire or hang out with. Someone who looks
and sounds like Will I Am, or Quincy Jones, or Colin Powell all good choices.
Flavor Flav likely not so much.

The same goes for 3rd generation Hispanic, but not 1st.

Those from India if they grew up in an affluent house hold and sound like they
are from England, but those with a heavy accent no.

My home town has no non-white people. We had 2 half native American kids in
school, and I think a 1/4 Hispanic girl. As odd as that sounds I think that
helped with not being racist. There were no stereotypes because there was no
history of seeing anyone of another race.

When I was in the Sudan, I told people I was Canadian, it was safer. That
wasn't a Race thing either.

This may have rambled but I think today there is less racism and more
Originism (I know that isn't a word) but I think where you come from matters
to people more than the race. That's not better. Just different. It is still
beyond your control.

~~~
mandeepj
> I find in my day to day interactions that these days Blacks are less
> discriminated against than many others, but it seems it is now less about
> color and more about accent.

I totally agree with you. I have experienced lot of stuff by myself that you
mentioned.

I am living here in US from last 7.5 yrs. I still have very thick accent. I
tried a lot to get rid of it. Even hired an accent trainer but due to lack of
time could not practice. At the end, my trainer gave up. I have lost lot of
opportunities due to my accent. It is not just my accent, my tone is also so
rough that when I speak my voice becomes so rough and it sounds so unpleasant.
I think I need throat surgery to speak properly.

I don't blame them who show me off faces. My only complain is they don't even
try talking with me. I can see the change in their body language when they see
me coming.

Not all are bad. Some people are still very welcoming. I wish there were more
of them.

I have seen my European friends getting so warm welcome even though they speak
more worst than me. I am not jealous about this. Just sharing how people treat
others differently who are from different origins

~~~
freehunter
I know you're probably not looking for advice with this post, but hiring an
accent trainer or even taking some advanced English lessons would probably
help your career (and your quality of life) quite a bit. When I see someone
writing "speak more worst" and "living here in US from last 7.5 years", I
don't think of someone who has been in the US for seven and a half years, I
think of someone who may never have visited the US at all. That sounds very
unnatural, and it does throw a lot of people off. It makes a lot of people
(unfortunately, myself included) uncomfortable to admit that we didn't
understand what you said. I don't talk to people with strong accents on a
daily basis, so I'm bad at hearing them. People tend to shy away from awkward
encounters, and being unable to understand the person you're talking to is
about as awkward as it gets.

It's not malice, it's not racism, it's just really uncomfortable.

~~~
meric
"It's not malice, it's not racism, it's just really uncomfortable."

Being "uncomfortable" is one kind of feelings racism stems from, being
uncomfortable around people you don't really understand. Not saying your
feelings are bad or you are bad, just that people are emotional rather than
logical beings. There were definitely some subset of racists who were racists
not because they logically analysed the science of race, concluded that their
own race was "superior", but rather, they felt uncomfortable being around
those they assume is from a particular race. There were establishments that
were "whites-only", I assume it's because the owners were afraid its patrons
would be uncomfortable eating with "blacks".

~~~
freehunter
While I agree with what you say, I wouldn't draw the same parallel. Its more
along the lines of ending a phone call when the other person is in a low-
service area. The point of talking is to communicate, and communication only
happens when the people understand each other.

I get the same thing with my sometimes spotty grasp on the German language.
While, for the most part, I can be understood just fine from Berlin to Munich,
eventually people get frustrated and ask me to switch to English. Not because
I'm American, but because I'm terrible at speaking German. It just takes too
long for me to understand them or to make myself understood.

So I agree that racism sometimes stems from being uncomfortable around people
who are different, but I wouldn't go as far as to say being uncomfortable
around people who are different is necessarily similar to being racist.

~~~
vxNsr
I get this all the time with russian, I can understand basically all russian
but my ability to speak it, sucks. So Russians will tell me to just say it in
English bec most have a better grasp of English than I have of Russian,
they'll speak to me in Russian, and I to them in English.

About the Phone thing: When I get someone from South East Asia for customer
support, I ask them to speak phonetically in the most courteous way possible,
this was after yelling at a few reps who just didn't understand a word I was
saying, nor I them. I felt there had to be a better way than to berate someone
for just trying to do his job (somehow the women were easier to understand,
probably just the luck of the draw). Anyway I highly recommend it to everyone
who complains about bad customer rep phone calls, learn the Phonetic Alphabet
(I have a copy taped to my wall for easy access) (Alpha, Bravo, Charlie,
Delta, Echo, etc). It may be a little slower but if they don't like it they'll
just transfer you to their supervisor or to someone with a better grasp and no
one feels bad at the end of the call.

------
bhoomit
Personal experience - Few years back went to open an account at a bank BOB,
India. In the morning I was in tshirt and jeans and everyone was too busy to
help me. Just 3 hours later went in a black formals and I didn't even need to
ask them for help. And I've had such experiences quite a few times.

~~~
jeffasinger
I've had potential landlords spontaneously offer me a discount only because I
was white, well-dressed and mentioned a 9 to 5 job. That certainly isn't fair.

------
rectangletangle
This is actually kind of funny. I think this may be tapping into some sort of
deep seated in-group/out-group psychology. If you look/act exotic enough that
you don't fit within the definition of the out-group, then you clearly _must_
be part of the in-group.

~~~
dictum
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism_of_small_difference...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism_of_small_differences)

------
senthil_rajasek
Stereotyping is bad and can be exploited. Don't stereotype people it can be
used against you is what I learned.

------
krishnasrinivas
Reminds me of this prank:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhMASNNjl0s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhMASNNjl0s)

