
“The Big Bang Theory” Normalized Nerd Culture - MagicPropmaker
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/how-the-big-bang-theory-normalized-nerd-culture
======
mbesto
Disagree. If anything I think it reinforced nerd stereotypes even worse - all
it did was shine a light on a culture that was basically in the shadows. Nerd
culture has been perpetuated by a variety of factors:

1\. Twitch / livestreaming / YT - e.g. sub counts = "look at how many people
actually do like gaming"

2\. Affinity groups to video games - e.g. NBA players love Fortnite (among
other professional sports...see HyperX commercials with Embiid, Hayward, etc.)

3\. Marvel movies - comic book reading is the ultimate nerd fascination.
Marvel movies are consistently the most watched movies in the last decade.

4\. Commercial success of tech startups - Zuck/Gates are the ultimate nerds
who are now the envy of every banker on wall st.

~~~
friendlybus
Gates/Jobs are the biggest factors for sure.

~~~
Grazester
Jobs never struck me as a nerd. More like the cool preppy kid that would drive
a BMW to school if they could have afforded one.

------
closetohome
I find this show actively uncomfortable to watch. It doesn't normalize
anything, it just mocks it using caricatures and awful stereotypes within the
framework of an extremely traditional and lazily written sitcom.

~~~
Jtsummers
It's a series filled with Steve Urkel-level parodies of nerds. I chuckled at
Urkel as a teenaged nerd in the 90s. Especially when they (sometimes)
humanized him more it was ok, instead of just having him the butt of every
joke. But a series where the main characters are all the butts of the joke and
supposed to represent me (according to other people) isn't really that funny.

~~~
mcphage
> It's a series filled with Steve Urkel-level parodies of nerds.

Not really. Steve Urkel was a nerd, but in the show that just meant “annoying
personality”. The characters in Big Bang Theory might have annoying
personalities at times, but at least had interests and attitudes that
demonstrated they were actually nerds, not just annoying.

~~~
asark
Urkel was into engineering and science and such, right? I mean IIRC he built
that machine that turned him into Stefan. Maybe a robot at one point? Dunno,
that's long enough ago to be pretty fuzzy, but I remember "making stuff with
math and science shit" being among his nerdy traits.

~~~
mcphage
He was "into engineering and science", yes. But it didn’t mean anything beyond
that; he didn’t do any engineering besides occasionally something would
magically appear. And he liked “science” but not any particular part of
science. They didn’t talk about anything that he liked more than “science”.

It would be like if someone said they liked “movies”, but never mentioned a
single movie that they enjoyed, or actor, or director, or anything. Just
they’re really into “movies”.

Big Bang Theory has many flaws, but it is so far better than Steve Urkel or
Screech. If I had been a kid when Big Bang Theory came out, having some
positive nerd representation would have been wonderful. And in Big Bang Theory
the characters _are_ represented positively—the show clearly likes the
characters, to use Roger Ebert’s terminology.

------
kleiba
BBT is based on displaying stereotypes and then ridiculing them. As someone
who studied CS and now works in IT, I've met quite a few people who actually
have to deal with the very issues that this show makes fun of, and let me tell
you: being a social outsider is not as much fun in the real world.

I have a hard time imagining how in this day and age the same ridiculing of
stereotypes would fly without a giant backlash if the show were about:

    
    
      - Women
      - Homosexuals
      - Non-white people
      - ...
    

But apparently, "nerds" are a safe enough as a group that coming up with a
skewed portrayal of them that lends itself to making fun of is okay.

Yeah, you go ahead and laugh about those tech freaks... why should the school
bullies get all the fun...

~~~
ACow_Adonis
I'm not homosexual, but have you seen the portrayls of such on the likes of
'next top model', 'queer eye...', and honestly just about any mainstream media
now that I think about it.

They're petty much all caricatures of 'offensively eccentric negative-female-
characteristics high-pitched limp-wristed men with obsessions for fashion and
celebrity culture'.

Its exactly the same thing and pretty standard...if i was less cynical, id
think it should of created more of an uproar...

I'm sure I could come up with examples for the other groups...

~~~
fetus8
I don't know if your description of the men on Queer Eye is apt. It's a
reality show, which admittedly doesn't mean the hosts aren't acting, but the
show is hosted by a cast of all homosexual men. Being in the age we're in,
it's easy to go find more content that shows the hosts aren't acting for Queer
Eye, and perhaps they're being their genuine selves.

Jonathon Van Ness, has a podcast, and has done some Youtube content over the
years, and doesn't seem to portray a different "character" than he does on QE.

Mainstream media, especially in the last 10 years, has really changed the way
homosexuals, and other LGBTQ+ are presented and seen. I would argue that it's
a lot less problematic, and more genuine than it's ever been. HBO's 'Looking'
did a decent job of portraying the spectrum of gay men that exist today. (Not
a particularly great show otherwise). Amazon's 'Transparent' does an
incredible job of highlighting the fact that sexuality exists on a spectrum,
and those people can be hyper-fem, hyper-masc, and anywhere in between.

As a gay nerd, I personally think it's important we see all kinds of LGBTQ+
identifying people, and shows like Queer Eye have done that.

~~~
mcguire
I haven't seen the reboot of Queer Eye, but most of the cast of the original
were hardly stereotypical. Ted Allen?

~~~
ACow_Adonis
I admit, I had no idea there was a reboot, and I don't know who Ted Allen is
:p

~~~
mcguire
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer_Eye](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer_Eye)

------
falcolas
It normalized an easy-to-digest parody of nerd culture, perhaps. Nothing
honked me off more than people watching BBT and thinking they understood
"people like me".

~~~
devindotcom
Surely the same could be said of nearly any network sitcom involving a
subculture or demographic. That's kind of the idea of broad entertainment.

The problem comes when the parody comes at the expense of the culture - that's
exploitation. But by the time BBT was airing and popular, nerds were, and
remain, to a certain extent a privileged class, not an oppressed one. They
have high-paying jobs, ordinary successful lives, and look back at the old
stereotypes of pocket protectors and social awkwardness with a sort of
bemusement. Nerds are not a vulnerable class and haven't been in a long time.
Nor is "nerd culture" particularly cohesive.

That may not be the case when the group being parodied is genuinely being
oppressed or discriminated against and is often not in a position to push back
against that. Exploitation in that case can be real and harmful.

~~~
com2kid
> Nerds are not a vulnerable class and haven't been in a long time.

The ones who get a CS degree and get a good high paying job, sure.

The ones still in middle school? Not so much. The ones who aren't programmers?
Not so much. The nerds growing up in communities where free thinking and geeky
passions are looked down upon, sometimes violently? Not so much.

And those kids will reach adulthood dealing with some rather nasty issues.
Everything from not having learned great socialization skills, to a poor self
image, to a lot of stuff in-between.

Stereotypes are bad, having a show that treats people as 1 dimensional
disposable arch-types that exist only to be laughed at, is bad, no matter who
the subject matter is.

~~~
chris_wot
You mean people like Stuart the comic book store owner?

------
devilmoon
TBBT is a show written by non-nerds trying to describe what nerds are, and
failing miserably.

I have tried more than once to watch it and every time I felt actual physical
discomfort at how bad the whole thing was; Even though the show is not
strictly about nerds but rather a parody of SV culture, I find HBO's Silicon
Valley to be so much better at describing nerds than TBBT - at the very least
I can actually laugh at the jokes and there are slight hints that the writers
actually know what they are talking about.

~~~
wj
Having lived in LA for 15 years I met and became friends with some writers. I
can't speak for the BBT writers but a lot, if not most, of the writers I met
were pretty nerdy. Sometimes you need to write what makes your audience laugh
rather than what makes you laugh. They earn a paycheck just like the rest of
us.

I couldn't watch it due to the laugh track.

------
curtis
I haven't watched The Big Bang Theory regularly in a long time but I always
enjoy it when I catch it in re-runs. A lot of people claim to hate it because
it makes fun of "nerd stereotypes". I never found it insulting, though.
Exaggerated, sure, but it's a sitcom, it's supposed to be exaggerated. A lot
of the fun of the show is the characters "taking the piss out of each other"
[1]. Not everyone will like that kind of humor but it's pretty common in
sitcoms and a lot of people seem to enjoy it.

It seems to be common for people who dislike BBT to complain that it ridicules
nerds as a class. I don't think that's right at all. Does anyone think that
"Scrubs"[2] ridiculed doctors and other healthcare professionals as a general
class?

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taking_the_piss](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taking_the_piss)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrubs_(TV_series)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrubs_\(TV_series\))

------
fhbdukfrh
It normalized the stereotype of nerd culture.

Aside from being incredibly unfunny it completely misrepresented nerd culture
and that's why it was so popular amongst the largely nerd-free network tv
audience.

For a more accurate picture still taken to absurd extremes watch Mike Judge's
silicon valley on HBO.

------
anonymfus
It is not just Sheldon who is extremely sexist in their group. Here are Pop
Culture Detective's video essays highlighting misogynistic and toxic-masculine
behaviour of all these "nerd" characters:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3-hOigoxHs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3-hOigoxHs)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L7NRONADJ4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L7NRONADJ4)

------
jayess
I tried watching this show once and it wasn't about nerds, it was about what
non-nerds think nerds are. The laugh track on top of that drove me crazy. It
was unwatchable. I genuinely don't understand how it was so popular.

~~~
dpcx
It's always interesting to me to hear people complain about the "laugh track"
in shows like BBT, but then herald Monty Python as if it were some paragon of
comedy, considering it _also_ contains a "laugh track." I'm not speaking about
your comment in particular; I have heard from many folks that they hated BBT
because of the recorded laughter.

------
pfarrell
A great quote I remember reading about BBT (maybe in comments here on HN) was
in relation to Arrested Development.

Big Bang Theory is a dumb show about smart people. Arrested Development is a
smart show about dumb people.

I've never been able to watch BBT. I could never get past the feeling that I
was being laughed at.

~~~
lwhsiao
I believe this is the figure you're remembering:

[http://i.imgur.com/IT2K6F8.png](http://i.imgur.com/IT2K6F8.png)

------
verteu
No more than blackface "normalized" African-American culture.

~~~
krapp
I mean... disgusting as it was, it kind of did.

~~~
wafflesraccoon
Blackface normalised the racist stereotype of African Americans, not
necessarily actual African American culture.

------
elagost
This show made me realize that there are two distinct groups of people with
zero middle ground: Those who enjoy or at least don't see anything wrong with
it, and those who feel they are represented (poorly) in the show, and
intensely dislike it.

The first group usually tends to compare the second group to the show's
characters ("he's such a Sheldon") and doesn't see anything wrong with that,
either.

------
tzs
So many people complain about the characters...but when I was a student at
Caltech pretty much everything that people complain is unrealistic or wrong
about nerds on BBT was there in people I knew. It's just more concentrated in
the BBT characters whereas it was spread among a dozen or two people that I
knew.

What bugs me as a Caltech alum is that Sheldon had an office at one point that
had a geology lab directly above on the next floor, which is ridiculous.

~~~
P_I_Staker
They're heavily caricatured. There seems to be the implication that this is
just how engineers / nerds are. Sometimes, sure, plenty of those people exist.
However, in my experience, it's not that widespread. It's way more common for
engineers / nerds to be way more socially adjusted, and well rounded. Making a
show where the characters embody the worst stereotypical traits of their
subjects causes distortion to the point of becoming unrealistic. In my
experience only around 1 in 5 or fewer would even begin to approach these
extremes; however if you watched the show you'd expect the numbers to be
stacked in the other direction.

------
spudlyo
I wonder if past generations felt this too -- this feeling that the as you get
older, popular culture seems to twist itself to pander to your tastes and
attitudes. I had assumed that I had this feeling because I was in the most
sought after advertising demographic. Now that I'm into my 50s though, it
seems like it's still happening, and perhaps even faster than before.

As we enter 2019, celebrities are rushing to play Dungeons and Dragons, The
Big Bang Theory has better ratings than NFL football, Game of Thrones is the
top HBO show, and the most popular movie in America is from a comic book. It's
a weird world.

Nowadays I'm a bit saddened that my attitudes have shifted to become more
close-minded, like my fathers. Adults playing Dungeons and Dragons are
somewhat pathetic, comic books are boring kids stuff, and "fantasy" is for
people who have dull lives. I don't subscribe to all of that, but remembering
how angry I was at my father for belittling the fantasy escapism that I was so
wrapped up in, it's odd to find myself agreeing with some of his sentiments.

------
gnicholas
Pretty sure I first saw this highly-relevant diagram on HN:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/2dwmvx/handy_dandy_v...](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/2dwmvx/handy_dandy_venn_diagram_for_your_tv_watching/)

------
conradfr
I guess this thread is one more proof of why there's less and less funny shows
coming from the U.S.

Nerds, scientists, engineers or developers can be make fun of like everybody
else.

Sure BBT is not really a good show, especially after the first few seasons,
sure it jokes about adults reading comics, but they also got hot wifes, go to
the ISS and get Nobel prize.

The most damning thing is that people in this very thread praise Silicon
Valley. You do realize that, besides being more realistic and better written,
the people on this show are also way more ridiculous and despicable than in
BBT? But somehow you're less offended, interesting.

I wonder if support people are offended by IT Crowd ahah.

------
thrower123
The weirdest thing about sitcoms, to my mind, is how they are always focused
in on this group of 4-8 close friends who live in close proximity and spend
all their time together. It just doesn't match up with anything I've seen -
real people drift around, interact with a bunch of different people, do their
own thing. Maybe there are people that live like that, but I just haven't seen
it.

------
nydel
I find this piece on toxic masculinity in The Big Bang Theory much more
interesting than the show or this article:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3-hOigoxHs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3-hOigoxHs)
(The Adorkable Misogyny of The Big Bang Theory by Pop Culture Detective)

I'm happy for people who can enjoy The Big Bang Theory but I find it difficult
personally.

------
anonanon321
I'm hardly offended by the show despite being a nerd. I think it's because I'm
Chinese and there are no characters that I strongly associate with. In fact, I
can't recall many asian characters on the show. "Fresh Off the Boat" on the
other hand...I can see myself being very uncomfortable watching.

~~~
conradfr
But ... Fresh off the boat is adapted from an autobiography, especially the
first season.

~~~
anonanon321
I'm not saying it's bad or anything. Just that in the same way some people
find watching TBBT uncomfortable (and I don't), this show may do the same
thing for me.

------
saipii
I'm confused by this thread. Are people still social outsiders just for being
"nerds"? I feel like people are mixing up being socially awkward and being
nerdy.

It's much easier to be a social outsider when you're socially awkward. I don't
think I've ever seen a nerd who is socially strong be outed from a group just
for being nerdy...

This is coming from someone who was nerdy and socially awkward for much of
middle and highschool and didn't really have friends. Once I started working
on my social abilities (which is not easy, to be fair), making friends was
easy.

------
knolax
This entire thread sounds like the "gamers are the most oppressed group on
earth" meme. Maybe it's a generational thing, but "Nerd Culture" was
normalized when people stopped caring about the concept of nerds. I don't
think I've met anyone under 30 irl who strongly identifies as a nerd the way
people in this thread do.

------
nullandvoid
A little off topic but a genuine question. Am I the only one who cannot stand
shows with canned laughter?

My other half thinks it's odd but I hate punch lines being ruined / unfunny
jokes having a laugh track over them. Which unfortunately makes big bang
theory pretty unwatchable for me among others :(

------
javery
Nerdploitation

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coldtea
Yeah, no. Nerd culture was normalized years before BBT came along... Somewhere
in the early-mid 00s.

------
0815test
Relevant post from the ESR blog
[http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7451](http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7451) Or, Why _The
Big Bang Theory_ Normalized the _wrong_ sort of Nerd Culture.

------
viseztrance
As a geek I honestly hated TBBT. I would love to see a show that portrays
smart people having street smarts without going the mary sue trope.

------
eigenspace
While I find TBBT kinda annoying, I find people whinging about how horrible it
is much much more annoying.

------
anonanon321
"The Big Bang Theory" Normalized _North American_ Nerd Culture

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inamberclad
It always struck me as a show about smart people, for dumb people.

------
bdz
The Windows 7 episode was when I stopped watching it. Just horrible

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN3qn92R0SE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN3qn92R0SE)

------
yarrel
And "Friends" normalized NYC.

~~~
nydel
ha! incredibly apt. clapclap.

------
walrus01
No, it really didn't. I've seen it described by someone else as "the big bang
theory is blackface for nerd culture".

