
Tip any song or musician with Bitcoin - jwomers
http://saycheers.co
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sferoze
This is really amazing. I hope your service receives a lot of success.

One problem is that many people don't have bitcoin even if it is the best way
to pay. Many people are uncomfortable buying bitcoins.

Amazon micropayment service lets you pay with credit card transaction anywhere
from $0.05 to $9.99 with a 5% + .05 cent transaction fee. Which isn't as good
as bitcoin but it is still pretty good as far as credit card fees go.

[https://payments.amazon.com/help/Amazon-Flexible-Payments-
Se...](https://payments.amazon.com/help/Amazon-Flexible-Payments-
Service/Creating-Managing-Your-Account/Amazon-Payments-Fees)

Many small micro-payments can really add up. This can be huge for content
creators. I would really like to give tips to people who create educational
science videos, open source software, open source hardware, write detailed
tutorials for hardware and software projects, take the time to help me on
forums, etc. Many content creators on the internet have helped me. I might not
want to give a lot to each but I can give a small tip. Which can still make a
difference to the creator if many people also do the same.

I think if they charged a fee for the tip it would be a more standard business
model and people would not find it as exciting. It seems more direct to
customer this way without the man in the middle dilemma for content creators.
Also charging a fee in addition to the transaction fee would make it
increasingly difficult to tip the creator a small amount. I think the fact
they don't charge a fee on top of the transaction fee is out of necessity.

~~~
jwomers
Hi, thanks for the feedback! We agree that for now Bitcoins constrict us to a
relatively small community - which is why we will be supporting credit cards
in the near future! (And thanks for the link to Amazon micropayments +1!)

We plan to launch with only Bitcoins, and shortly thereafter add on credit
card payments to go more mainstream.

Our mission is to enable anyone to tip any creator anywhere in the world - so
educational content and others are definitely included in this! Music is just
the starting point.

~~~
sferoze
and maybe even for aid relief to charities in emergency situations

~~~
sferoze
I signed up for the beta, I would love to help

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MisterWalter
My main concern is that I don't see how they get any money out of it. Normally
I'm fine with free services, for obvious reasons, but it strikes me as
concerning that this requires quite a bit of work and money, both over the
long term, but they have no visible payoff. The only way I see it being viable
in the long term is if they take our money. I'd like to see this as a % fee of
some sort but I worry that it is either doomed or a scam.

~~~
jwomers
Hi, thanks for posting your concerns, and I understand where you're coming
from. Our visible payoff is creating a social network around payments - and
while we will never charge fees on tips, there are many other services we can
introduce to generate revenue. One example is later on allowing creators to
actually sell their content on our network (to their fans) or having premium
artist accounts to help them manage, engage and grow their fanbase. Other than
this, can you think of any other ways we can convince you (and others) that we
are not a scam?

~~~
simondlr
Co-founder here. To add.

We also have to look at a future where an artist like Justin Bieber could put
up a BTC address on his Twitter profile. Taking a cut means the artist has a
small reason to not want to sign up ("they take 1%-2%. I'm better off just
sticking a BTC address on my Facebook").

~~~
lotsofmangos
_We also have to look at a future where an artist like Justin Bieber could put
up a BTC address on his Twitter profile._

In this future of which you speak, are there any off-world colonies?

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jwomers
Hi everyone, Cheers Cofounder here. We're trying to make the world a smaller
place, connecting fans with those that make what they love, and enabling
content creators. We'd love to hear feedback on our platform. Cheers!

~~~
GrinningFool
Any plans/interest in supporting dogecoin tips (sent as dogecoin to the
artists). There community around dogecoin is, generally speaking, more
amenable to tipping.

~~~
jwomers
Yes! We're planning to integrate as many payment options as possible so this
is definitely in the works.

~~~
GrinningFool
Excellent, thanks!

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drue
How will you avoid being sued by artist's representation (i.e. record labels,
RIAA, etc)? I would also be highly concerned about validating the recipient of
the money, especially since they're unlikely to reach out directly.

The best you could do is purchase music from the musician though the least-
fee-laden service available, so they get the most money legally possible.

~~~
drue
Incidentally, I've always wanted a service like this, but I couldn't get past
those pesky issues.

It would be just as useful for authors and movie studios.

~~~
willlma
Thought of a similar concept a few months back. When it comes to not getting
sued, as long as they're not providing content, then the tip is simply a
donation. If the users use the tip as moral justification to then steal the
music ("hey, the artist got more than he would have if I bought it, and screw
the labels!"), then the onus is on the user.

As for getting the money to them, that's the question I want answered. I had
conceived it as pledges rather than donations. I think people are more likely
to pledge than they are to donate, which would get the service started a lot
faster (and not problematic as long as you provide cc/banking/bitcoin details
so that pledges are automatically deducted). Artists could then be contacted
and told to claim their pledged donations.

~~~
jwomers
This is what we're aiming for - since there is no content being bought, it's
really just a donation.

In terms of getting the money to the artists, this is definitely an important
and difficult part - but we're going to start slowly, do things that don't
scale and work it out from there. Out of interest, how do you see pledges and
donations as different from a user's perspective?

Thanks for the feedback!

~~~
willlma
I typed out an email and thought I'd just leave it here as it answers your
question:

Hi, I was thinking about something like this after reading Jaron Lanier's Who
Owns the Future (which I recommend simply for his view on how a capitalist
economy could subsist on micropayments, if you haven't read it).

The world needs something like this, if only because the concept of post-
payment, if successful, would align expenditure and value to a degree that is
impossible if you've paid for a good before you can consume it. If this got
big, it would change the quality of music that is produced as musicians would
strive to make music that lasts. It requires a very moral user base, but I
think you can find one.

I saw in another comment that you might use analytics as a future premium
feature. If you think of the donor's psychology, tipping an artist comes from
a desire to benefit the person who has provided them with an enjoyable
experience, but also as an indication that of all the artist's material, that
song/album/video is the direction that the band should continue to go in. If a
donor thinks he can influence a band's decisions, then I am convinced that he
would be likely to give more (remember, we're dealing with a fairly well-
educated morally inclined user base. Not all people think this way, but they
do). If analytics is locked behind a paywall, then donors might not feel the
same incentive to give. This is obviously problematic, since you seem to be
leaning freemium rather than charging fees as a source of revenue, and need to
think of good premium features that the free user base won't miss.

If you truly view this as tipping, as a means to correct the fact that
musicians receive far too little of their music's sales, then the payment
model makes sens. If users start to use your website as a moral justification
to steal music (as I certainly would) then you're effectively cutting into the
labels' revenue. Though I applaud that initially, if this starts to gain
scale, I would consider allowing users to give the labels a small percentage
of their donation, as the labels do play an important role in producing,
marketing… though not as big a role as their current compensation would
suggest. I doubt that labels would ever accept these donations, as it would be
an admission to the inadequacy of today's music distribution model, but you
would gain a reputation of being a fair player rather than a pirate.

Though it sounds like this is already the case, I would highlight to your
users that what they are giving is a pledge: it's not guaranteed that artists
will agree to accept these donations. The pledging mentality, like with
kickstarter and co, makes people give more as expected expenditure = pledge x
probability of acceptance. An economically inclined user might give $15
instead of $10 if he only thinks that there's a 2/3 chance of that

Finally, you should allow for users to supply and request content associated
with artists, tracks, albums… Hey, I'm looking for guitar tabs for this song
and am willing to pay x for it. First person pays the fee, other downloaders
can tip the guy who made the tabs if they choose. Or, I'll make tabs for this
song for $20, people can leave little tips, and once it hits $20, it gets sent
over to them and is available to the rest of the community. If there's too
much content being generated, use a reputation system to only show the best
and keep the UI clean.

I may be thinking a little too niche because I play guitar, but this could
extend into all sorts of other spaces like merchandise, though competing with
ebay/amazon on that front probably isn't where you want to go with this. If
you did get into selling physical goods, you could keep it pretty indie by
only allowing user created content (a poster a user drew). Because you would
be creating a market that doesn't really exist, you would be more justified in
charging small fees for user to user interactions than for user to artist
tips.

I'll stop rambling.

I look forward to following your progress.

~~~
simondlr
Fantastic feedback. Thank you so much!

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tinkerrr
1\. Consider providing a 'status' of the money tipped, so people know the
artist actually got the money and they didn't send it into a blackhole.

2\. Dogecoin is a must - shouldn't be too hard if you have Bitcoin already.
The communities are very different.

3\. Services like Tinkercoin allow you to buy a small amount of Bitcoin with
credit card. Consider adding this info for the fans to get a small amount of
Bitcoins.

4\. There are some musicians in the space who are big into Bitcoin, like
Tatiana Moroz. You can contact them to promote your site in the music and
Bitcoin communities.

Good luck!

~~~
jwomers
Thanks for the feedback!

1 - We're definitely focusing on transparency around tip statuses.

2 - Yes, agreed!

3 - Good idea!

4 - Great, thanks!

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LukeB_UK
If you don't take any fee from the tip, how does your product intend to make
money? Just curious.

~~~
jwomers
Good question. For now we're just trying to make a product that both fans and
artists are excited about and will use - a product we'd want to use. And since
our initial product is tipping, we're committed to never taking a fee on these
transactions. In the future, we may build-out a premium artist account,
allowing them to get analytics around what is being Cheered, and built a
platform for them to engage with and grow their fanbase. Additionally, while
tipping will always be free, we could turn on product commerce where we may
take a small fee.

~~~
LukeB_UK
Thanks for the insight! Always cool to see others product ideas and their
approaches. Hope it works out for you!

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shmerl
I like the idea! How do you reach the artists if they don't have their own
bitcoin wallets?

~~~
jwomers
We'll reach out to the artists and sign them up the Cheers - they will then be
able to receive their tips in Bitcoin (recommended, and we'll help them set up
a wallet) or fiat (slower, more complicated, minimum thresholds etc.). The
exact process is still to be worked out.

~~~
shmerl
I think you should expand this to more creative works besides music. Books,
video, gaming, visual art, whatever.

~~~
jwomers
Yes, this is on our roadmap, and forms the core of our mission. To allow
people to tip and reward creators of any kind, anywhere in the world!

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VaucGiaps
Awesome idea. Hope this will work! I suggest you buy a ssl certificate. This
will build trust.

~~~
jwomers
Very good point, thanks. This was just the landing page, but you're 100%
right. _Adds to TODO list_.

~~~
tormeh
Not that good. Will get trust from tech-savvy people, but I didn't notice, and
99% of all people certainly won't. Of course, the 1% are the ones likely to
use BTC, but don't rest on your laurels once you are done with the SSL certs.

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stonogo
Express your love for the artist with an underhanded political polemic!

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jff
"Like a busker's hat... BUT WITH BITCOIN!"

