
New Surface Pro - pierre-renaux
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-pro/overview
======
nailer
One import thing with all Surface laptops that most people don't know:

> Support is limited to the country you purchased the device in.

Eg:

\- If you buy an Apple laptop, and need a repair, they'll fix it if it's in
warranty, regardless of where you are.

\- If you buy a Microsoft laptop, and need a warranty repair done in a
different country, Microsoft won't help you.

I purchased a Surface Book (which I love) in a Microsoft store in the US. It's
been sporadically doing this since a couple of months after I unboxed it:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_f85KlC5Bc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_f85KlC5Bc)

Microsoft UK won't fix it. Even when I travel to the US I'm not sure I'll be
there long enough for Microsoft to do the repairs. I love the hardware, but
this policy is really bad. I paid for the top of the range laptop and expect
support for it.

Edit: I've raised this with Microsoft Support in the past and they've simply
restated the policy and closed the case as resolved. When I attempted to
escalate it, they told me to post a complaint to Microsoft's legal department
(?!?).

~~~
sacheendra
> \- If you buy an Apple laptop, and need a repair, they'll fix it if it's in
> warranty, regardless of where you are.

Not true. That is only for the iPhone. The Macbook has only national warranty.

~~~
danieldk
False. From the UK terms for MacBook Pro (I checked the terms from the
Netherlands as well, and they are similar):

 _You may obtain service in the European Economic Area (EEA) countries and
Switzerland without paying any shipping and handling fees. Outside this
region, service options may be limited. If a given service option is not
available for the Apple Product in such country, Apple or its agent shall
notify you about any additional shipping and handling charges which may apply
before rendering service. Shipping and handling charges will not apply in
countries where Apple does maintain an Apple Retail Store or Apple Authorized
Service Provider (“AASP”) (a list of current service locations is provided at
locate.apple.com /uk/en)._

IANAL, but basically this seems to say: (1) in the EEA you can get your
support no questions asked, (2) outside the EEA you may have to pay S&H
charges, unless there is an Apple Store or Reseller.

~~~
AlphaSite
"If the product is portable, meaning that it can operate independently without
a power cord, you may obtain warranty service worldwide. However, service will
be limited to the options available in the country where service is requested.
If the product is not portable, warranty service may be restricted to the
country where the product is purchased."

[https://store.apple.com/Catalog/Images/worldwidewarranty.htm...](https://store.apple.com/Catalog/Images/worldwidewarranty.html)

Apple care is totally worldwide.

------
passive
I've been using a Surface Pro 3 as my one-and-only for almost 3 years, and it
really feels like time to upgrade, so I've been looking forward to this one.

My workload is probably something like 40% reading, 30% writing, 25% coding,
and 5% running code, and the Surface has been a nearly ideal form factor for
this.

The new "Surface Pro" ticks a lot of boxes for me:

\- Supports my existing keyboard, pen, dock, and power adapter

\- Improves battery life substantially

\- Offers improved keyboard and pen for when I get around to it

\- Fanless options

\- Improved performance (not that I need much more)

Unfortunately, the configurations are weird. My ideal machine is an
i5/256GB/16GB. The closest I can get is i7/512GB/16GB, which nearly doubles
the cost, and requires a fan. I just don't get how they can make the floor for
16GB RAM $2200. Is there any professional workload where 8GB isn't
constricting today, let alone in another 3 years? My only thought here is that
maybe the RAM increases the thermal envelope enough to require the fan, but
that seems unlikely, and I would still happily make that sacrifice if I didn't
have to also pay for the processor and disk upgrades.

I'm going to harangue them on Twitter, and also look into clearance SP4s with
16GB.

~~~
Joeri
Do you actually use it in tablet mode? I always wonder how many surface pro
buyers actually use it as anything but a laptop.

~~~
komali2
It goes into tablet mode for me when:

1\. I write in my daily journal using the surface pen and onenote.

2\. I am taking notes in onenote with the surface pen at a meetup.

3\. I am writing random fiction nonsense (onenote, surface pen).

4\. I am taking notes in onenote w/ pen on one side of the screen, while
having chrome open on the other with one of the MOOCs I am taking.

5\. I am working on Chinese or Japanese exercises in onenote w/ pen with my
kindle open to an exercise book.

I play around with portrait / landscape, having the flipback extended, etc,
based on mood and position.

SP3.

------
sixdimensional
One trend I am noticing is that I keep sensing a clear difference between,
say, a standard iPad vs. a Surface. A standard iPad feels like a tablet
appliance, whereas a Surface is a full-bore laptop in tablet form.

Mentally, whenever I hold a Surface, I don't find myself thinking of the kind
of experience I expect from the iPad. I realize now there is the iPad Pro,
which has more horsepower/keyboard/pen etc., but it still doesn't feel like a
full laptop.

Does anyone else feel like the iPad experience is more.. I dunno, geared
towards casual use and entertainment with the walled garden of apps, and
Microsoft really doesn't reach/target the same market (even though they are
trying)?

EDIT: I guess I am trying to say, something about this market still doesn't
feel quite right.. maybe there are still options to innovate.

~~~
romaniv
I had really bad experience with Surface Pro 3 (lots of hardware and software
issues), but I have to say this: Microsoft is trying to do the right thing
here. There is no reason tablets should be dumb-down media consumption devices
when they have computing power equivalent to desktop PCs of a few years ago.
But to be used as real computers they must have keyboard and stylus _by
default_ and must allow to install arbitrary apps without jailbreaking and
hoops.

The biggest thing that's dragging Surface down is its UI. Neither classic
Windows apps, nor Metro apps are very pleasant to use on the given hardware.

I wonder what Alan Kay thinks of Surfaces compared to iPads.

~~~
freeone3000
Surface Pros run Windows 10, so they have the same UI as other computers. I
don't see the problem?

~~~
fredsir
If the UI/UX is bad for any one or all devices it runs it, that is a problem.

~~~
fraculto09
It's not, there are two modes, one for tablets and one for desktops/laptops,
and you can quickly switch between them.

~~~
fredsir
And that's the problem. The two modes doesn't "change" (or the apps are just
the properly optimized for the different modes) the apps enough so in reality,
an app is either good in one mode or the other, not in both.

------
Longhanks

      > The most versatile laptop.
    

...that doesn't ship with a keyboard (pen isn't included either). No USB-C.
16GB RAM maximum.

~~~
nilved
Are you saying that 16 GB isn't enough?

~~~
gambiting
It absolutely isn't. I'm a C++ programmer working in games industry, my work
machine has 64GB and all our work-issued laptops are 32GB(which is not enough
to actually start local servers of our game, so doing any mobile work is quite
limiting).

why does this apply here: because I can easily imagine artists using this to
modify some assets and trying to run the game to see what they look like, but
with 16GB of ram they won't even load the editor, much less the actual
server+client combo.

~~~
nilved
Your game needs some serious work. Maybe if your developers had 4 GB RAM on
their computers the constraint would benefit them.

~~~
maxxxxx
I am not sure if you are trying to be funny or if you are an arrogant prick.

~~~
zghst
What's so taboo about creating things under the constraints of machines that
everyday people own? The best engineers are always the most resourceful and
focused.

~~~
maxxxxx
Maybe their stuff is extremely complex and is already optimized? Before you
make such a suggestion you should be very sure that you understand the
situation.

~~~
zghst
Responding to a question with a question only makes more questions

------
drej
I've been waiting for this for a while (despite being a Mac user for years and
years). And it doesn't quite compute (ba dum tss). Two reasons really.

1\. No USB-C. 2\. If I want 16 gigs of RAM, I need to opt for an i7 and half a
terabyte of SSD.

I wish I could just go for an i5 with 256 gigs of storage and 16 gigs of RAM.
That would be sweet (and not as expensive).

Too bad, let's see what others come up with.

~~~
maxxxxx
I don't understand why they create these bundles. Why not let me choose CPU,
RAM and disk separately?

~~~
lmm
They do it because customers find it simpler, and because it makes it easier
to keep all the models in stock.

~~~
robotresearcher
And because a customer who _must_ have one feature will pay for the other
features they don't need if that's the only way to get it.

~~~
maxxxxx
That makes sense. Especially since devices can't be upgraded anymore you have
to go to the biggest model "just in case you need it one day"

------
SurrealSoul
I got excited, then I saw prices. Then I saw the keyboard isn't even included
and costs $160. Ouch.

This will be $1800+ after tax, why not just get a really solid laptop at that
point? Hell you could buy two solid desktops

~~~
tbihl
The pen is amazing for what it does. You can annotate things on the same
machine where you're doing everything else. It's also a wonderful machine for
flying.

But you pay up for those things. So for you, definitely just get the solid
laptop. Surface pros can be maddening, and often feel finicky enough that they
can't be primary machines.

------
apapli
I love my Pro 4. This video won't convince me to upgrade, but I'll be a tad
jealous of every new starter at our firm who gets assigned one!

~~~
tzaman
Care to elaborate why? I'm somewhat of an apple-fanboy but Surface seems more
and more appealing, and I'm leaning towards giving one a try.

~~~
angus-prune
I have an SP3. It is the best device I've bought in years.

I interact with the device in a fundamentally different way. I will sit and
read a document with a pen and no keyboard (to proofread, highlight and makes
notes). I'd tried this on ipad and it never fit in my workflow well.

I will use it to take notes at a meeting in OneNote. Again, the ipad workflow
never worked for me for this.

The benefits definitely aren't for everyone. But it fits me perfectly, and I
wouldn't go back from it now. Its probably at least a year before I upgrade (I
also have a desktop for heavy lifting). I'm feeling the pinch of the older SP3
cpu a bit on some of the work I do, but not enough to warrant an upgrade yet.
If I had money to throw around, I'd get the new one as a drop in upgrade
without a second thought.

~~~
volkk
OOC, can you explain why the iPad workflow has never worked for those things
you mentioned? Seems like one of its core intended designs is taking
notes/reading documents much like an actual notebook

~~~
angus-prune
When I tried it might have worked if you'd fully bought into the apple
ecosystem, but in a mixed corporate environment it just wouldn't work.

A document had to be somehow transferred into each viewer, and manually saved
back out so I could use the reviewed document on the desktop.

With the SP3, live documents are stored in either dropbox or a network share
and its seamless.

I do a lot of design work in indesign and photoshop, and even word. Being able
to make both simple and substantive changes on the fly is a lot more use than
far more limited ipad apps.

The SP4 pen is far more pleasant to write with than any ipad stylus I came
across. This is all just a matter of taste, but I found my muscle memory
reacts for better to the SP4 stylus.

My ipads were great for many things, but work was never one of them for me.

------
komali2
SP3 user for ~3 years.

Usecases: Web Dev in node/javascript/HTML/CSS, now using WSL. Notetaking in
onenote + surface pen for general journaling, notes at meetups, notes from
MOOCs, notes from self-language-study. Vague low-power gaming sometimes. Adobe
Lightroom photo editing.

Issues: Onenote is absolute fucking garbage at syncing. It is __absolutely
unusable __when offline. It will throw unskippable error dialogs about being
unable to sync when offline, meaning I can 't use it to write or take notes at
all unless I tether. It is so useful in all the above usecases, with no
competitor, that I have subjected myself to just getting my tether on my phone
ready when I'm out and about and needing to use onenote. However, it is
frustrating to the extreme.

Anybody here at Microsoft care to comment on this actually being addressed?
Syncing and offline issues have been a "top priority" for the onenote team
since 2014 according to the flares of investigating I do occasionally.

~~~
mel919
I hear you. OneNote uses OneDrive which is a huge mess itself. Sync to Dropbox
would help so much... there's even ticket for that on their uservoice. OneNote
also sucks massively at searching in notes...

~~~
rainbowmverse
My #1 gripe about OneNote is that it can't be moved to the SD card on Android.
It's manageable since you can decide which notebooks to keep on the device,
but still annoying.

------
marricks
Intentionally omitting a USB-C port kind of reveals how petty microsoft is
being. Deciding to omit backtracks from a nice universal standard presumably
to intentionally hinder Apple who put all there chips in it. Now accessory
manufacturers (thumb drives, displays, etc) are forced to support older ports
now longer, potentially forever, until MS adopts.

Lest we forget, the dream that was USB-C was that we wouldn’t need half a
dozen different cords and adapters to connect things, we could just use one
port for everything. Sure dongles are slightly worse than cords, but one cord
for everything is the best solution. So Mac users need dongles now, but MS is
like “fuck that, give people what they immediately want and screw the future”.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
Most people will have replaced their new Surface Pro long before they actually
need a USB Type-C port. Apple chooses to act against it's own customers'
interests by rushing to new ports and requiring they buy all new hardware.
This will be the third generation of Surface Pro that does not require any new
accessories.

If I end up buying the new one (which I might for the built-in LTE), I won't
have to buy a new type cover, pen, dock, or spare chargers. Everything is
compatible. In my car I keep a Mini-DP video adapter, a portable DVD-RW drive,
and an Ethernet adapter, all are USB Type-A, and all would still work with the
new Surface Pro.

Consider how much loathing I hear from Mac fans about Apple taking away
MagSafe. Why would Microsoft do that to their Surface customers? This is
Microsoft making a pro-consumer decision.

~~~
ovao
> Apple chooses to act against it's own customers' interests by rushing to new
> ports and requiring they buy all new hardware.

I just moved to a 2016 MacBook Pro and the only "all new hardware" I've
purchased is a pair of $10 adapters. I haven't replaced any of the hardware I
already own, because I don't need to.

I can only really criticize Apple for not including an adapter or two, and for
not including more than two USB-C ports on the base 13" MBP. The latter's
really pretty regrettable.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
Similar to your MacBook, you will be able to get adapters for the Surface Pro
for your USB-C needs!

They included the ports people use the most, and will support adapters for
those of you who need less popular ports.

~~~
ovao
That's certainly true. Apple included the ports that people _will_ use the
most, at some point in what they believe to be the justifiably near future
(we'll see!), and they naturally support adapters for those who need what are
currently the more popular ports.

So with the Surface Pro you're probably buying adapters one to two years from
now, whereas with the MacBook you're probably buying those adapters today.
Whether adapters are bought now or two years from now I don't think is that
great of a concern.

~~~
marricks
That’s so short sighted. Sure, if we stick with what everyone uses now
everyone will be supported. They only way to move towards those greener
pastures is to have companies actually support them.

MS hasn’t supported the port, and is intentionally taking a swipe at Apple
“people who love USB-C love dongles.” To me implies they know what they’re
dong and are trying to reap the benefits of the inevitable awkwardness of
transitions.

~~~
ovao
It was only a commentary on whether buying adapters/dongles or converting to
new hardware now vs. later doesn't (or shouldn't) matter to users
individually, not a suggestion that USB-C adoption shouldn't concern users in
a more collective sense.

For what it's worth if I was in the market for a Surface Pro I think I'd have
also preferred USB-C, given its momentum.

------
Roritharr
No Thunderbolt 3 as the leaks said. Can't buy it for that reason alone​. (Our
office goes for TB3 Docks everywhere so Mac and Windows Users can use the same
Flex Desks)

~~~
nicpottier
Which dock and what has your experience been with them? Seems there are very
few out there..

~~~
FireBeyond
I have a Dell XPS 15 9560 with the TB16 dock. I had tried a couple
(Kensington, etc), and had issues (like, buried waaaaay down in the Kensington
fine print was the fact that if you had a 4K display, the USB3 ports would
"downshift" to USB2, and the GigE port would go to 100mbps...)

The TB16 dock is great though, works seamlessly and smoothly with 4K displays,
GigE, supports Power Delivery and remote 'wake' (there's a power button on the
dock that if the laptop is sleeping will wake it).

~~~
Roritharr
Have you tried using the TB 16 with a MacBook Pro?

~~~
FireBeyond
No. But I could try with my partner's MB if you're curious.

~~~
Roritharr
Yes I am. :)

------
pwaivers
> Surface Pro boasts 50% longer battery life than Surface Pro 4, 2.5x more
> performance than Surface Pro 3

Why do they compare it to the Surface Pro 3, and not the 4??

~~~
sbov
Because "1x the performance of a Surface Pro 4" didn't get past the guys in
marketing.

~~~
codinghorror
Well 1.05x but yeah. Truth hurts!

------
Analemma_
I'm interested to see if the claims of ~20ms latency on the pen hold up in
reviews. That's less than half of the latency of the Apple Pencil and within
spitting distance of the 10ms considered to be the holy grail of
imperceptibility. I could never get into pen-based input because the latency
drove me nuts, but may have to rethink that.

~~~
dingo_bat
Apple pencil was never touted as having particularly low latency. On the other
hand surface devices have always made a point of having the best touch/stylus
experience, so I won't be surprised if that 20ms really holds good.

~~~
jacobolus
A year ago when I tested the two back to back, the Apple stylus had something
like half the latency of the MS one, and also seemed more accurate.

It’s hard to tell how much of that is hardware difference vs. optimization of
the signal processing software though.

------
Kurtz79
"2.5x more performance than Surface Pro 3"

This statement begs an obvious question...

~~~
xd1936
Should they call it the Surface Pro 7.5?

------
make3
Do people still use these¹ cameras seriously, or is Microsoft trying to out
hipster Apple?

[1] : [https://c.s-microsoft.com/en-
us/CMSImages/Surface_J_Overview...](https://c.s-microsoft.com/en-
us/CMSImages/Surface_J_Overview_HighlightFeature_V1.png.jpg?version=13555b4d-c642-8dbb-e1af-83661faadf0a)

~~~
ahakki
Yes, it is very rare as it is highly expensive. These cameras use film sheets
with a size of 4x5 or 8x10 inches (depending on how you process the film and
scan it the total might be in the hundreds of dollars per image). The image
quality however is unmatched by any digital equipment.

Scanning back solutions also exist (basically a scanner that you can attach to
the camera) . These cost thousands of dollars each and may take a few minutes
per image. You cannot use them for moving subjects. [1]

These factors make cameras like this a very rare sight indeed.

[0]
[http://www.dannyburk.com/drum_scanning.htm](http://www.dannyburk.com/drum_scanning.htm)
[1]
[http://www.betterlight.com/products4X5.html](http://www.betterlight.com/products4X5.html)

------
binarycrusader
The biggest note to me seems to be the addition of tilt sensitivity, which
will also be available via Windows Update for other surface devices (the
footnote is vague on which ones).

------
martijn_himself
As a side-note: if you are selling premium devices with these mark ups and
charging extra for essential accessories (a keyboard) you better have premium
physical stores where I can try them out. I'm in the UK and PC World does not
count: they will most likely not know the difference between this and a
Surface Pro 4.

------
trendia
Any Linux support? I'll buy Microsoft hardware if I can keep my full
development environment (Qt creator included)

~~~
shahbaby
Linux support will be limited.

I'm running Ubuntu 16.04 and Win10 on a Surface Book \- no pen input, can't
use dedicated GPU, wifi signal occasionally dies, can't wake up from sleep

Other then that, Linux actually runs pretty well and is very usable.

~~~
komali2
>other than that

That's... a pretty big "that"

------
joemi
Can you actually use this "laptop" on your lap? Doesn't the fact that it has a
kickstand make it extremely awkward, if not impossible? I have not tried one
like that myself, so I honestly don't know, but I'd be very surprised if it
worked on one's lap.

~~~
bobbles
I have SP4 - despite many other issues I have with it, the kickstand DOES make
it great to use on a lap. In fact I find it much easier to use on my lap than
any laptop that I have used.

Being able to adjust to any angle means you can use it just as comfortably in
an airport chair vs on a lounge etc.

~~~
joemi
I don't get how the kickstand could actually make it easier to use than a
normal laptop. Can't you adjust the angle on any laptop?

------
romanovcode
You could link on the official page tho: [https://www.microsoft.com/en-
us/surface/devices/surface-pro/...](https://www.microsoft.com/en-
us/surface/devices/surface-pro/overview)

------
lytfyre
Still need to take the i7 to get 16GB of RAM. I really appreciate that even
the base spec, touch-bar less MBP can be fully loaded out with memory.

------
delegate
Top model has 1TBGB SSD ! That's 1 terabyte gigabyte or zillions of all kinds
of bytes :).

Typos aside, hardware looks promising, but Windows...

The only place were I'm ok with Windows is a multi monitor gaming rig.. And
that's because there's no other choice.

~~~
dingo_bat
Windows is probably the best OS on this form of PC. The form itself is shit,
that's another matter.

------
6stringmerc
Look I'm a fan but until I see it running some real heavy artillery (Ableton
Live 9 Suite, Massive, AmpliTube, and a half-dozen VSTs) in real-time vs. the
competition, then it's just another hollow claim. Sure, hardware and
performance are getting better. Sure, the Surface Dial is a massive game
changer in the long term.

But, look, the problem with marketing to creative people is that they take it
sort of as a challenge to prove you wrong. It's like ingrained. Kind of a bad
habit, but, hey, it is what it is and I will happily admit I want one of these
new devices and would consider it a major upgrade from my current gear.

~~~
noahbradley
I'm a fairly professional creative myself and have been using Surface products
to do my work for the last 4~ years almost exclusively. Heavy Photoshop work,
lots of video editing, 3D modeling & rendering, etc.

Sure, I'd love to have 32GB of memory and an even more powerful machine in
general, but I've been damn happy with all of the Surface products I've owned.

~~~
fumar
I would love to hear your feedback on the new Surface Pen features. Keep up
the great work!

------
raesene6
Looks like a nice incremental improvement to the Surface Pro line.

The "no fan" option on the Core i5 could be quite nice, one of the annoyances
about the Surface Pro 3 that I've seen was the noise of the fans.

~~~
vezycash
I'm curious, does "no fan" mean no vents? Cos it will overheat once dust
accumulates.

~~~
bobsam
It has vents. It may even have active cooling by other means (e.g. Lumia 950
smartphones are water-cooled).

Don't think dust will gather inside the device that easily if there is no fan
to suck it in.

------
hnjp
I have used Surface pro 1, and I got too many problems such as keyboard's key
is broken which I had to buy a new keyboard twice. The surface is totally
freezed when I connected keyboard to it.

I again convinced myself that the Surface pro 3 is better so I bought it. Wow,
some problems are: \- The top right of backside is extremely hot when I watch
youtube. \- Again, the Alt btn of the surface pro 3 keyboard is broken. \-
batter length is not as advertised.

Therefore, I wont never buy a new surface even if it is cheaper than macbook
pro. I am saving money to buy a new macbook pro.

------
primis
Honestly, $100 for the pen? That should honestly be included since the
keyboard isn't.

~~~
jclardy
Wow, that means they really jacked up the price this year. My SP4 was pen
included. $1060 for the m3 model with a pen and type cover.

~~~
StreakyCobra
I got mine for the equivalent of 1028 USD: SP4 i5, 256G, 8GO pen and type
cover (this was a special offer though). This was one month ago. So when the
new model will go out, the prices of SP4 will probably drop.

So far the only drawback of the SP4 is the battery life, so except if they
improved it a lot I don't see the point of paying the 500-600$ more. They say
it's possible to watch 13.5 hours of videos, but manufacturers tests are not
trustable anyway. It would probably be more like 7-8 hours of real-world
usage. Are the extra 3 hours worth the difference? Maybe, but for my usage no.

~~~
tracker1
Depends... being able to get through a day at a conference center matters a
lot to some people. Not so much to me, but to some.

~~~
StreakyCobra
Yes, it is why I said "Maybe" :-) I'm actually working in research and I'm
going to conferences, but the limit of ~4 hours kind of forces me to focus on
talks instead of coding all day long.

I mean, during the conference day I'm kind of depressed of not having battery
any more, but with cold head I tell myself it is better for me.

------
rbanffy
People are pushing this as a MacBook killer but it's more like an iPad Pro
killer. With the same 4GB of RAM, a Core m3 and 128 GB of storage, it costs
$100 less than the iPad Pro with the same RAM and storage (but an ARM
processor). The m3 here makes a good difference.

For the same as the 8GB i5 with 256 GB, you get a MacBook with a Core m and
the built-in keyboard. It's slower than the i5, but it's an actual laptop.

------
downandout
Their pricing structure floors me. On the i7 models, you pay $1100 more for
750GB of extra SSD space and 8GB of extra RAM over the entry level i7 model.
That is ridiculous. With that kind of premium to protect, they'll also make it
nearly impossible to manually upgrade/replace the RAM and SSD, which makes
buying one of these things a pretty bad decision.

~~~
JTenerife
Agreed, but how's that different to what the competition is doing?

16GB RAM starts at 2199 $US. That indeed quite off-putting for something that
should replace my laptop.

~~~
downandout
I'd argue that iPad Pro isn't really competition for the Surface Pro. It's a
tablet; the Surface Pro is a full-fledged PC. I would absolutely buy one
because I love the weight and form factor, but I'd need at least 16GB of RAM,
and I just won't pay an $1100 idiot tax for the top of the line model. I'll
watch to see what iFixIt says about soldered RAM etc., but I'm not hopeful.

------
wakkaflokka
Alright, now that this is out: what should I get?

Most of my heavy-duty work is done via SSH into a remote VM. I watch movies,
but mostly browse the web. Most of my actual work is programming intensive. I
like pretty screens. Larger is usually better. I want to be able to take it on
a plane without hassle when I travel.

New surface? HP Elite x360 15"? Wait for Surface Book refresh? Yoga?

~~~
rch
Dell Precision 5520 looks like the best machine out right now, among the
larger/higher-performing options.

~~~
wakkaflokka
Looking for a hybrid though (tablet mode), doesn't look like Precision does
that? Otherwise that'd be a solid choice.

~~~
vladimir-y
XPS 13" has convertible model. Nowadays Precision laptops come with the same
chassis as XPS, nothing premium there as XPS is the regular multimedia laptop.
I'd recommend before getting Dell's laptop to first go through the owners
comments at the Amazom/reddit/etc, I saw many complaints about quality control
and the coil whine problem, so for me Dell is not an option.

------
staticelf
I have a SP4 and I really, really like it. But this doesn't seem to differ
that much from it. Does it? :)

What's new compared to SP4?

~~~
rtkwe
50% more battery life than the 4, fanless options for the m3 and i5 versions,
on screen support for the surface dial, and a new hinge that lays a little
flatter seem like the big changes. It's largely an incremental improvement.

~~~
popcorncolonel
And LTE.

It would be pretty damn surprising if you got any more than an incremental
improvement this late in the game.

~~~
rtkwe
Oh yeah LTE is neat but I don't really have a use for it so I always forget to
look.

------
TekMol
I use my tablet quite a lot to browse the web. It's an old iPad 2. Everytime a
new tablet comes out, I wonder if I should update but cannot find a reason. Is
there anything new in this tablet that would benefit me?

All I really care for in a tablet is that it is:

    
    
      1) Fanless (The iPad is fanless)
      2) Lightweight (The iPad weights 600g)

~~~
dagw
_Is there anything new in this tablet that would benefit me?_

Do you ever want to use keyboard with your tablet? Can you see that advantage
of a pen? Is there any windows software that you might want to run on your
tablet? If no, then no.

Basically this isn't a tablet that is competing against the iPad, it's a
tablet that's competing against the macbook/macbook air.

~~~
TekMol
I use my laptop to do anything else then browsing the web. If a tablet would
run Linux smoothly, I could see myself using it with an external keyboard. So
I could put the tablet onto something so it's on eyelevel and put the keyboard
on the desk. I guess that would work with a bluetooth keyboard?

However, as far as I know the surface line does not support Linux well.

~~~
hxegon
Windows has a linux subsystem now, so it depends on how you define "support"

~~~
TekMol
What can one do with that "subsystem"?

I want to use all the software that is in the Debian repos. I don't want
Microsoft to spy on me. And I don't want to be exposed to their security
issues.

~~~
lmm
> I want to use all the software that is in the Debian repos.

They have this, more or less (well, Ubuntu rather than Debian). You get real
apt-get and you can install things, most of them work.

> I don't want Microsoft to spy on me.

No luck there, though it seems like everyone short of the BSDs is doing that
these days :(.

> And I don't want to be exposed to their security issues.

You still are, though again I don't think their security position is worse
than anyone else (again, short of the BSDs) these days.

------
AdmiralAsshat
Following the Apple school of numbering things up to a point the throwing a
random self-titled reboot, I see. It won't work, Microsoft. It didn't work for
Apple. Just ask anyone who owns an iPad, and count the amount of time it takes
to figure out exactly _which_ model iPad they own.

~~~
ClassyJacket
I have the The New iPad, which is the old iPad now.

~~~
IanDrake
I think the numbering system goes away when the innovation ends. Meaning, the
only thing changing in the future is slight hardware upgrades, like the MB Air
or Mini which are identified by date.

------
devereaux
The keyboard looks bad. I don't want the oversized left and right arrows. I
want pageup and pagedown there instead.

The XPS 13 2-in-1 is better for me if only for this reason. The XPS also comes
with a pen, USB-C, and a decent hardware configuration like 16Gb of ram
because we are in 2017!!!

I just wish I could get QHD+ screen. No option on dell.com, while I see that
on
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N5MV7YA](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N5MV7YA)
so it must exist somewhere. I also have been told that it may be possible to
get a trackpoint on similar models that share the chassis - but no touchscreen
then.

Oh, and there is no LTE in any case. I guess I will have to wait for 2018 to
at least get the QHD+ option.

~~~
gbl08ma
I own a Surface Pro 3 with the SP4 type cover (i.e. the version before the one
that just came out and which is basically the same). I thought I'd miss all
the keys from my laptop and desktop keyboards. Turns out, there are lots of
hidden shortcuts. I got used to doing Fn+Arrows for Home/End/PageUp/PageDown
and now I wish I could use that on other keyboards too. To me it's easier than
having to reach for those keys when they are to the right or to the top of the
keyboard, so much that I think I type a bit faster on the type cover, as long
as I'm properly seated and the keyboard is on a solid surface (e.g. a desk).

I find the keyboard very good (the right menu key is a bit useless, but you
can remap that using many methods) and the touchpad is the best I've used too,
although it's probably not as good as the ones in Macbooks.

If the keyboard is the only thing holding you back, rethink it. You should be
more worried about the price and the kickstand which is not a problem for me
but might be for you, especially if your legs are short and you intend on
using it on your lap a lot.

~~~
devereaux
The keyboard is holding me up. I have shortcuts mapped to the keys above the
left and right arrow. I use them extensively to navigate between desktop and
tabs. A few years ago I read about using such shortcuts and now they are
deeply ingrained into my workflow.

I don't think I could do without them, and they are one of the only reason I'm
considering the XPS: a proper keyboard.

FYI, by default these 2 keys go to the next tab, when using the shift key
right above: they go to next desktop, using the control or menu key right next
to them they reorder the tabs, etc.)

For the tool I use everyday, price is not the problem. However, a bad keyboard
is.

------
chiph
I've been very happy with my SP4, but I wish I'd gone for the i7 CPU instead
of the i5.

It would be nice if the top-level configuration on the SP5 had 32gb of memory
- I end up swapping sometimes (which TBH isn't that bad with a SSD, compared
to the old rotating rust drives)

~~~
neogodless
What Core i5 model does your SP4 carry? Does anyone know where you can find
the models they are using in the new SPP?

I'm sure the Core i7 are something like the 7500U (i.e. dual core, four
threads) - is your Core i5 dual core, dual threads?

~~~
chiph
It's an i5-6300U at 2.4 GHz. 1 socket, 2 cores, 4 logical processors.

~~~
neogodless
That's the really weird thing about Core i7 mobile processors. They are also 1
socket, 2 cores, 4 logical processors. Just slightly faster base/turbo clocks
than the i5. I dislike the naming. I only recently realized my work laptop is
a U series, which explains why my 8 year old desktop (AMD quad core) is much
faster at compiling the same projects...

~~~
Const-me
My laptop with U-series i3 builds C++ just as fast as my 3 years old quad core
desktop i5.

The reason is eDRAM i.e. large L4 cache in the mobile CPU. Some workloads
(compiling C++ appears to be one of them) like lower RAM latency even more
than extra CPU cores.

------
franciscop
They are still using the SurfaceDock with the SurfaceConnect Cable:
[https://www.microsoft.com/en-
us/surface/accessories/surface-...](https://www.microsoft.com/en-
us/surface/accessories/surface-dock) , which does basically the same as USB-C.

In an era when even Apple is rumored (and even if false, still plausible) to
be switching to USB-C for the iPhone, Microsoft still tries to force a
proprietary connector. Didn't they learn anything from IE? Even if it's good
for them for a while, it'll be their demise not following standars and thus
locking thenselves out of everything.

~~~
chrismorgan
From what I’ve seen, USB-C is a _disaster_. The ports and cables all have to
support specific profiles, which are just getting more and more complicated,
for specific features to work, and there is _no visual indication at all_ of
this. If you got a cheap cable (which people _will_ do), you may suddenly find
that maybe charging doesn’t work. Or maybe it melts. Or maybe it doesn’t
transfer data. Or maybe using it for a video signal doesn’t work. _There is no
way of telling without trying it._

USB-C just isn’t popular enough yet to have crashed and burned (though even
after that it’ll still be popular for ages for want of an alternative).

I have a Surface Book (the hardware was good enough to get me to switch from
Linux, without ever actually having seen one), and the Surface cable is
_marvellous_. Magnets are awesome, and the Surface Book is probably _the_ most
carefully magnetically-designed computer hardware. At work I have a Dock and I
pretty much just put the Book on the desk by the connector and it jumps into
place and my external monitors connect. And removing it, really easy and it
can’t go wrong. The whole thing is really, really nice.

~~~
nrki
Sure...except you have to buy a $200 dock to connect it to anything.

Why can't I buy a $40 (or Chinese equivalent for $20) adapter to connect it to
things?

Why isn't there a pin-out or open standard?

I know the magnetic factor would be a problem for this use-case - it would
often be too "heavy" for the magnets.

~~~
apapli
I bought a Kensington dock, I think it is the model I linked to below, but I
paid way less for it on amazon. Works great.

[https://www.kensington.com/au/au/4491/33972/sd3500v-universa...](https://www.kensington.com/au/au/4491/33972/sd3500v-universal-
usb-30-dual-docking-station)

~~~
FireBeyond
If it's anything like the Kensington sd3600p I had, not so great. Buried far
below anything else was the not so little detail that if you plugged in a 4K
display, USB3 ports on the dock would downshift to USB2, and GigE to 100mbps
(why bother?).

------
faragon
799 USD for 4GB RAM, 128GB of flash, and an "Intel Core m3"? Come on. I
understand that the Intel CPU is almost 300 USD per unit, and that pushes the
price. I hope that Snapdragon SoCs running Windows 10 with emulation for x86
stuff drive down Windows 10 tablet/laptop prices dramatically. BTW, despite
being expensive, the new Surface Pro looks great.

In my opinion, Intel is playing Serguéi Bubka's technique: because there is no
enough competition, they go as slow as possible in the mobile market, just
matching the performance of the second competitor.

------
novaleaf
back to naming hell I see.

Surface Pro > Surface Pro 4 > Surface Pro 3 etc...

Is it bad to have higher numbers in product titles? I don't see a problem with
"Surface Pro 5" but maybe "normal" people do?

~~~
vezycash
I don't mind the name. However, differentiating between versions when buying a
surface from a third party site e.g. EBay would become problematic and
unnecessarily time consuming.

------
gallerdude
They picked some low-rez pictures to show this off. Check out the picture of
all the software being demonstrated. Apple is always really good at showing
you a crisp picture of the software side.

------
zghst
Microsoft is completely unashamed and masterfully brilliant at copying and
improving on Apple's strategy. The only concern is that they're making a bunch
of machines not many people will buy, however, in the long run it's better
that they have the production expertise and well minted engineers. Apple
should and probably isn't resting on its heels, I bet we're going to see a
preemptive strike on HoloLens (and probably .NET) sometime soon, maybe
starting at WWDC this year...

~~~
tomtheelder
What about this are you describing as copying Apple's strategy?

~~~
zghst
MS built out an entire hardware line that mimics Apple's hardware line and
then put up counter points to Mac alongside each competing Apple product. It
is obvious and Microsoft's collective ego shows. It is a very late response to
Apple's old campaign, they have moved on completely.

~~~
binarycrusader
Mimics? At last check, none of Apple's laptops had full touch screens or
supported a stylus. If you're talking about design or style, you might be able
to argue that.

~~~
zghst
You are talking about features. Not the products themselves. Tablet. Laptop.
Convertible (in-between). There usage and perception is the same. There is no
defining feature that make them different. They go after the same market, that
is the key.

None of these products (Surface) really matter because Microsoft is just
buying time and expertise with the Surface line. HoloLens will change
everything, as soon as it drops. Microsoft will be working furiously to spin
down the Surface line and ramp up its new platform. It is the gold key. We
don't always have our phone in our hands but imagine you have these lenses on
all the time to help you experience a deeper world.

~~~
binarycrusader
_There usage and perception is the same._

The usage and perception of a laptop with a detachable keyboard, full touch
screen, and a stylus is the same? I don't think so. Perhaps they're very
similar, but I think it's a stretch to equate them.

 _one of these products (Surface) really matter because Microsoft is just
buying time and expertise with the Surface line. HoloLens will change
everything, as soon as it drops. Microsoft will be working furiously to spin
down the Surface line and ramp up its new platform. It is the gold key. We don
't always have our phone in our hands but imagine you have these lenses on all
the time to help you experience a deeper world._

I think you're slightly overly optimistic about the future here.

------
Hasz
I recently purchased a new laptop, after looking through a bunch of options --
Dell, HP, Lenovo, Microsoft, etc. Ultimately, I settled on one from Xiaomi.
For $720, I get an i5-6200U, 8gb of DDR4 RAM, 256gb SSD, 1gb dedicated
graphics card, a 13.3" panel, aluminum body, backlit keyboard, USB C + HMDI +
2 USB 3.0 ports etc.

Build quality is similar to Surfacebook, but I would have to spend another
~600 to match the stats. Is the whole touchscreen tablet combo worth that
premium?

~~~
e12e
> Is the whole touchscreen tablet combo worth that premium?

I would say it depends. I love the touch screen (I've disabled my touchpad) -
and I love the real pen/digitizer.

The sp4 is basically the dynabook: high dpi screen, a pen that works.

Still some annoyances with scaling in legacy apps - and I've yet to find a
great "smart" drawing/cad program that really takes advantage of the pen - I'm
thinking something like Ivan Sutherland's "Sketchpad".

I haven't quite gotten around to it, but I believe it would make a great
Smalltalk companion (although it's a "button" short). It does work quite well
with MIT's "scratch" system.

~~~
BlueDingo
Regarding drawing and CAD programs, have you heard of Moment of Inspiration
(MoI)? The interface is designed to be suitable for stylus input with fewer
and fatter buttons, scrubbing, etc. More importantly, the workflows also seem
to be designed around this so repeating or chaining actions is easy and you
never feel like stylus input is cramped or lacking precise control.

Other pros:

    
    
      -fully customizable HTML UI
      -fast, lightweight but powerful
      -advanced actions (cloning along a path) aren't archaic hidden abilities for advanced users, they're discoverable and usable by new uers
      -reasonable price
    

Cons:

    
    
      -not as serious/enterprise as some people might need
      -due to semi-indie status it probably won't serve as your ONLY 3d modeling tool with only a handful of file format option
    

All said, it makes for a fantastic addition to existing toolbelts but could
also be a complete game changer for a certain class of users.

~~~
e12e
No, I had not. I'll certainly take look.

[http://moi3d.com/](http://moi3d.com/)

------
mrfrasha
I honestly wish Microsoft would have have just loaded their surface with USB c
ports. I guess there is always next gen :/

------
WhiteOwlLion
At $899 USD, there are a lot of options besides the Surface Pro. Our
organization will buy it though because they take a corporate approach to
purchasing and they always buy warranties. I never understand that... but
whatever. Just buy 10 more Surface Pro and swap 'em out if want "warranty".
Still cheaper that way.

------
calsy
Why are kickstand hybrid laptops a thing?

Its the combination of an over-sized tablet that you find impossible to hold
and touch type on comfortably at the same time because 'TOUCH ON EVERYTHING',
mixed with the idea the family photo frame sitting on your desk would make a
great workstation if I just added a detachable keyboard. Lame!!!

------
kayoone
I love my SP2, but i only use it for note taking in onenote for all my study
related stuff and its amazing for that. Syncs to my Windows Desktop and
Macbook in a few seconds. The whole note taking experience still has some
small issues, but in general it's been a huge boon to my productivity.

------
ericfrederich
I would really love one but need to be able to use something on my lap when
I'm on the couch.

Think I may go for an XPS 13.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_aSht_ssls](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_aSht_ssls)

~~~
popcorncolonel
If you're fine with the on-screen keyboard (which is fine for browsing, once
you get used to it), flipping the keyboard so the keys are on your lap and the
back rest lies on the back of the keycover is pretty good for lap usage.

------
rbanffy
How easy is it to remove Windows and install Fedora 25 or Ubuntu 17.04?

------
vladimir-y
12.3 screen, no thank you, I'd rather take the new 14" Lenovo X1 Yoga 2nd gen,
which also has a 3 USB + 2 TB3 ports (amazing ports set for such a slim form
factor).

------
whistlerbrk
Is the RAM still soldered in and therefore not expandable / upgradeable?

I'd love to get the 256Gb SSD / i7 version and upgrade to 16Gb RAM

~~~
rtkwe
Soldered or purely onboard everything is the only way to get devices that
thin. There's just not enough space to include a RAM socket that's 50% the
height of your entire device.

------
usaphp
Laptop that you can't even put on your lap...

~~~
bussierem
I don't know if you own one or not, but as someone who has owned one for
several years now, I can tell you I've NEVER had a problem using mine, with
the keyboard, on my lap.

~~~
trimbo
I've had a couple since the original Surface RT and I have a tough time with
it. I really don't use the device anymore because balancing it on my lap
became really annoying. It's fantastic on a table though.

------
patrickg_zill
I am pretty sure that the view camera in the picture on their home page is no
more a USB 2.0 device rather than USB-C, XD

------
locusm
4GB of memory for the $999 i5 model is so 2005. I cant think of a single
client that could operate with those specs.

------
rimher
How many cores will the new CPUs have? I remember someone telling me that the
older version all had 2 cores only

------
eb0la
At first sight it has similar specs to HP Envy and Spectre series. I'm
wondering about the price.

------
nateroling
I'm mostly curious what they're doing with that 4x5 view camera connected to a
laptop...

~~~
tlack
Could be a scanning back.. but they also don't seem to have a shutter cable
attached :)

------
nateroling
I'm very curious what they're doing with that 4x5 view camera connected to a
laptop...

------
faragon
Current Windows logo in the tablet is ugly. The old with colors was nicer, in
my opinion.

------
AzzieElbab
If only it did not run Windows

------
ikeboy
Why is it comparing battery to surface pro 4 but performance to surface pro 3?

~~~
rsynnott
Intel hasn't provided any interesting performance improvements in Kaby Lake;
it'll probably be about the same performance as the Pro 4.

------
mirekrusin
Nice, but... have they hired people who left apple to make this website?

~~~
ramanujank
Ha! I wish I could upvote this all the way to the top!

------
lz400
Anybody knows if they are going to release a new surface book too?

------
dayaz36
Can Microsoft stop making laptop/tablet hybrids please?

~~~
gjm11
Why should they? How would that benefit anyone?

------
jpkeisala
Is this locked to install apps from Windows Store only?

~~~
Azerb
No, that was only Surface Laptop - this is full Windows 10 Pro based on the
pre-order page.

~~~
bhauer
And to be clear, the Surface Laptop can be upgraded to Windows 10 Pro as well.
Eventually that will be a $50 upgrade, but for the first year after launch, it
will be a free upgrade.

------
smnplk
Anyone bought the new Lenovo X270 yet ?

------
willj
I made an account just to provide some balance to the glowing reviews about
the Surface Pros, and to see if I'm the only one here that feels this way. I
own a Surface Pro 3. I want to like it but a few things ruined it for me.

TL;DR: Unless they redesign the charger and make the touchscreen resilient to
cracks, I won't be buying another Surface in the future.

Complaint #1: Am I the only one here super frustrated by the design of the
SP3's (and SP4's) charger? Specifically, the magsafe-like plug. It frays right
where the cord meets the plastic plug and short-circuits. You can actually see
the spark inside the plastic piece that connects to the computer, and the LED
indicating it's connected to power will flicker on and off. I've owned two
cables now (the original and the replacement I got for this issue) and it's
happened on both. There's a thread here about this:
[http://www.surfaceforums.net/threads/power-cable-
fraying.108...](http://www.surfaceforums.net/threads/power-cable-
fraying.10845/)

The result is I have to be very careful when it's plugged in, because if I
move and shift the cable, it might short-out and the computer shuts off (and
it resets my Surface's time, too). Also, annoyingly, sometimes the LED in the
plastic magsafe plug indicates it's connected to power, but when I connect it
to the Surface the Surface says "plugged in, NOT charging" (emphasis mine).

Microsoft recalled the power cords due to the AC power plug, but not the
magsafe connector. So when I contacted Microsoft about the recall, they sent
me the part that plugs to the wall, which was not the problem. I've tried
reinforcing the connection with electrical tape, and that helps to a very
limited extent.

Complaint #2: A month into owning the SP3 I dropped it and the screen cracked.
This broke the touch screen (the Surface thinks I'm repeatedly tapping where
the screen is cracked.) I had to disable the touchscreen drivers to make the
Surface usable, so now the tablet functionality is all gone, which is a bummer
because I bought it in part for reading and videos. And, even with the drivers
disabled, when the computer boots up from power off, it often waits
indefinitely at the screen with the word "Surface" unless I "massage" the area
where the screen is cracked. This behavior (and recommendation to massage the
screen) is documented in this reddit thread:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/4vmimv/surface_pro...](https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/4vmimv/surface_pro_3_i7_256_gets_stuck_on_surface_logo/).

Dropping it was my mistake, but I wish the Surface's touchscreen was more
resilient/better able to handle cracks. iPads and iPhones seem much better off
in this respect.

Complaint #3: Occasionally, the Surface will turn itself back on when I've
pressed the power button to turn it off. The result is I'll come back to use
the Surface later and the battery will be totally dead. I'm 85% sure that it's
not me hitting the power button to turn it back on, especially because my
power settings are such that, if it's sitting idle for 5 minutes, it should go
to sleep.

I really like the Surface in a lot of ways, but the issue with the power cable
and the fragility of the touchscreen make me unlikely to buy another Surface,
and make me hesitate about recommending a Surface to a friend.

------
Helmet
How is this a functional laptop? And I'm being dead serious here and 100%
literal - how do I work with this machine while it's on my lap? It looks like
it would be a real pain in the ass to do so, with the "Kickstand" and all.

~~~
thesuitonym
It's not a functional laptop. Putting a Surface on your lap is the worst
experience you'll ever have. But as a portable Windows 10 device, my Surface
Pro 1 is one of my favorite devices.

~~~
passive
I don't know what kind of laps other people have, but I'm decidedly average in
every way, physically, and I use my SP3 on my lap every day.

Usually it's on a table or desk, but it's fine on my lap too.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
It is completely lapable, but typing on keyboard without anything underneath
is a bit weird. I hope they upgrade the SurfaceBook next.

------
ghrifter
Nothing like confusing naming/branding than having a new product called
"Surface Pro" when the Surface Pro 4 was released a few year(s) ago.

> Xbox

> Xbox 360

> back to "Xbox One"

Microsoft sure has weird naming tendencies,.

~~~
komali2
Angular

Angular 2

Angular

Facebook

Facebook Messenger

Messenger

Not to mention... google play store vs play store vs google play music vs
google books vs Inbox vs gmail vs Google docs vs Google Drive (wtf is even the
difference between these two?)

I want to mock but then I recall every naming meeting we've ever had at my
company and I totally get it

------
atroll
Am I poor or is this thing crazy expensive ?

~~~
devopsproject
It is only expensive if you compare it to the craptops from dell and hp.

Its got the same pixel density of a macbook pro, weights half as much, has a
touchscreen, etc.

~~~
bhauer
> _Its got the same pixel density of a macbook pro_

Just to clarify, the Surface Pro and Surface Book have a 267 DPI 2:3 aspect
ratio display. They are fantastic.

The MacBook Pro's display is ~227 DPI and is not 2:3.

~~~
maxxxxx
From my subjective experience my MBP's screen is still better than the Surface
Book screen. Despite lower DPI.

------
dilemma
Needs better storage options. I want an i5 with 512GB or 1TB, but not for
$2,000++.

------
neogodless
These are neat, but expensive. I just ordered a laptop this weekend.

* 17.3" 1080p

* Core i7 (quad core)

* 16GB RAM

* Discrete graphics

* Backlit keyboard (at no extra charge!)

$800 shipped to my door. Only thing I need to do yet is order an M.2 SSD and
I'll be happy for the next 4 years.

So my heart leaped a little seeing a new Surface announcement, but personally,
smaller screens will never work for these tired eyes. That and when I bumped
up to 16GB of RAM... I hit $2200. (It's also hard to see which Core i7 they
put in these, but I have a sneaking suspicion there's a 'U' in the model name,
meaning it's actually dual core.

Obviously the laptop I'm getting weighs 3-4 times as much and has a fraction
of the battery life. It's a completely different animal. But for me,
personally, the Surface will just remain "interesting" until it's portable,
powerful AND the pricing is not exorbitant. Then I could see trying to get
some work done on it when I'm out and about.

~~~
JBReefer
That's a really good deal - mind sharing the manufacturer?

~~~
stagger87
Not the OP, but I had a similar deal with a Lenovo P50 during their black
Friday sale, 1k USD for 15" quad core i7, discrete graphics, and 256 SSD. I've
never seen the OPs price point except for vendors like Sager.

~~~
neogodless
15" is usually easier to find deals on. And to get the SSD included. I am
spending $100 to get an M.2 Samsung 850 EVO 250GB. I'm willing to do
refurbished and previous generation CPU/GPU, which gets me most of the
performance for less money. If I was more into gaming, I think the newer
Geforce would've mattered more to me.

Lenovo Clearance does have a Y700 (17.3" 1080p) with GTX 960, Core i7 quad,
256GB SSD, but only 8GB RAM. Brand new for $799.
[http://www3.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/ideapad/ideapad-y700-se...](http://www3.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/ideapad/ideapad-y700-series/Lenovo-
IdeaPad-Y700-17ISK/p/80Q0008WUS)

