
Electric scooters aren't as eco-friendly as they seem, study finds - logifail
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/aug/02/electric-scooter-eco-friendly-greenhouse-gases
======
michaelbuckbee
"...traveling by scooter produces more greenhouse gas emissions per mile than
traveling by bus, bicycle, moped or on foot"

I can't find the source study - but even so I'd have to see some caveats on
bus + moped (2 cycle are brutal pollution wise).

I know there's a lot of hate for e-scooters, but I really like them. They're a
nice transportation option that supplants taking uber/lyft in many cases and
definitely an improvement over cars.

~~~
speg
It looks like the study is linked?
[https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ab2da8](https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ab2da8)

Also, it includes the scooter company driving around at the end of the day to
pick up all the scooters. Obviously not applicable if you are using your own
personal scooter.

------
melling
Prior discussion:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20597711](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20597711)

Something I pointed out yesterday is that these articles are focusing on
greenhouse gases. We still have a major pollution problem in large cities.
Reducing this alone makes scooters worth it, IMHO.

------
jdietrich
_Shared_ electric scooters are undoubtedly pretty damned dirty, due to the
very short working life of the scooter and the fuel use in collecting and
returning the scooters.

 _Owning_ an electric scooter looks pretty damned clean - ~200kg/CO2e to
manufacture the scooter, plus 0 - 300g to generate enough electricity to
charge the battery.

------
megaremote
Still 1000x better than cars, and anything that gets people out of their cars
is great.

~~~
Retric
Expect you many need to literally manufacture 1,500x as many scooters. ‘The
average vehicle went 163.2 miles over 92 trips during its lifetime’
[https://qz.com/1561654/how-long-does-a-scooter-last-less-
tha...](https://qz.com/1561654/how-long-does-a-scooter-last-less-than-a-month-
louisville-data-suggests/)

So, odd as it may seem, electric cars may be better for the environment.

~~~
kevin_thibedeau
The average bicycle isn't any better. Huffy knew this and purposely designed
their bikes for a lifetime of 50 miles. We should get rid of them too.

~~~
thatfrenchguy
I’ve never seen any bikes that has a lifetime of 50 miles. But I’m all for
anti-planned obsolescence laws. Maybe just forcing manufacturers to put the
expected life of the device next to it would help ?

------
algaeontoast
Just buy your own e-scooter or electric unicycle. Solves most of these issues
and takes stress off of existing public transit (not to mention personal
electric transit is almost always faster than public transit during rush-
hour).

~~~
logifail
> Just buy your own e-scooter or electric unicycle

...or stick with either a (kick) scooter or standard bicycle? Definitely
better for the environment and almost certainly better for your health, too.

~~~
algaeontoast
Unless you want to show up to work a sweaty mess. I have a bike I ride for
exercise as well, but commuting really only makes sense on an electric scoot /
EUC.

------
GoToRO
"the materials it took to manufacture the frame, wheels and battery"

How is this worse than a moped? Silly article.

~~~
cameldrv
The scooters have very poor durability. They're lasting on the order of
100-200 miles in rental fleets. The study actually underestimates this effect
and assumes that they last about 5x longer than they empirically do. Bird and
the scooter manufacturers are trying to address this by making beefier
scooters that don't fold with bigger batteries, but the abuse they take in a
dockless rental fleet and from having such small wheels make durability a big
challenge.

A moped typically lasts 10,000-100,000 miles, so even though it's much
heavier, the energy and cost are amortized over a far longer period.

~~~
skummetmaelk
There is no way the average lifespan is only 100-200 miles. That would make
the cost per mile 2-3 dollars which is completely unrealistic.

~~~
cameldrv
[https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com/1561654/how-long-
does-a-...](https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com/1561654/how-long-does-a-
scooter-last-less-than-a-month-louisville-data-suggests/amp/)

“The average vehicle went 163.2 miles over 92 trips during its lifetime”

[https://www.theinformation.com/articles/hit-by-big-loss-
bird...](https://www.theinformation.com/articles/hit-by-big-loss-bird-
seeks-300m-in-new-funds)

They lost $100 million on 40 million in revenue.

------
sebringj
Cars/bikes etc don't have carbon footprints to manufacture? This is an idiotic
comparison.

~~~
gamblor956
Unless you're buying some really crappy cars or bikes, they generally last for
several years or decades, compared to the estimated month-6 months lifespan of
e-scooters. (Bird has newer scooters coming out that are supposed to last
almost a year. _Almost a year._ For an average of 3 rides a day.)

When you're arguing that your mode of transport is green but it only lasts a
few weeks with relatively sparse usage, then the manufacturing carbon
footprint is absolutely relevant. When the mode of transport lasts for decades
and the manufacturing footprint is spread out amongst millions of others
vehicles, the manufacturing footprint isn't very relevant.

~~~
sebringj
You have a very good and valid point that I completely missed as I was fooled
by the category it resides in.

------
glemmaPaul
What are your guys thoughts on Revel, the electric moped that you can use in
Brooklyn. They seem to be more robust, thus potentially stay on the road
longer? [https://gorevel.com/new-york/](https://gorevel.com/new-york/)

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pbiggar
I'd love to see cities roll out docks for the scooters, where they could
charge while parked.

