

Russia may deem civil servants’ use of Gmail, Facebook ‘high treason’ - Libertatea
http://rt.com/politics/gmail-facebook-treason-high-521/

======
beloch
I honestly don't see how american-run social media companies can disentangle
themselves from the NSA now. It remains to be seen if the public in most
countries will even take notice, but this kind of response will not be the
last we see from foreign government agencies. If Facebook or Gmail do fall
from public grace, the only certain thing is that their successor won't be run
by an american company. International trust in american companies may be
fundamentally tainted now.

~~~
ihsw
> If Facebook or Gmail do fall from public grace, the only certain thing is
> that their successor won't be run by an american company.

Who's to say we'll ever see a major international company like that again? I
foresee a future where DNS root server control is yanked away from the USG and
the internet is partitioned.

The pendulum has peaked at globalization and now it's swinging towards
isolationism. Whether we like it or not borders have been drawn along the
previously wild-west-like internet, and it may take on the form of virtual
Berlin Walls.

Hopefully someday we can enjoy the same euphoria that followed Germany's
reunification but on a global scale, and that day may take a century to get
here.

~~~
dsirijus
I'd definitely read a sci-fi book based on those premises. Preferably, lead
character would be developer. _Not_ hacker; I'm not interested much in that
point of view.

~~~
serf
Kind of reminds me of an abstraction of the Snow Crash concept of city-state
issued visas and specialized bar codes that allow you to walk into said city-
state problem free.

~~~
gregpilling
"Welcome to Mr. Lee's Greater Hong Kong"

I was thinking this after the NSA thing. People could end up in 150 person
(Dunbar number) sized LLCs like the city-states in the novel.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_crash](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_crash)

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znowi
Well, this is a typical link bait, peppered with the eerie "cold war"
overtones. Let me clear up a few things.

Firstly, the proposal is covering specifically military and state employees.
No one is going to shut down Gmail or Facebook countrywide. This is
ridiculous.

Secondly, it's not a ban, but a request to develop a set of instructions on
handling in-house data for the employees.

Thirdly, the proposal calls for encryption of all sensitive data sent over the
internet.

A little less sensational, is it? :)

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arethuza
The article says "immediately limit civil servants’ access to the popular US
internet services and social networks" \- which I have to admit actually makes
sense.

If the NSA can get details of the personal lives of individuals then it could
open them up for blackmail and therefore to be a security risk.

------
mtgx
Years ago, when Russia was vehemently against US expanding its anti-rocket
shields, I was against Russia, and supported US, because "US are the good
guys, right?". Over the past few years I've started to understand Russia's
position. _Nobody_ should want US to become too powerful, because clearly you
can't depend on Americans to keep their own government in check, no matter how
good the US Constitution is.

So I kind've understand this move from Russia, too, even though it will
probably end badly for Russia, to the point where they become more like China,
but I feel that US _deserves_ this from every country in the world, until they
roll back all the spying, and end these programs and laws (Patriot Act, FISA).

I imagine that if there are hundreds of corporations lobbying the US
government to stop because they are losing business overseas, they will
eventually do it, because they know that the end of the day, and despite all
their public statements, the spying is _not_ that useful for catching
terrorists, and _specific_ investigations and wiretapping should still be
possible under reasonable laws anyway.

~~~
znowi
A bit of history in relation to the proposed anti-ballistic defense system in
Europe.

In 2002, the US unilaterally withdrew from the ABM treaty with Russia. The
treaty had been active since the 70s and sought to decrease the amount of
those very systems installed. In the same year, no longer bound by the treaty,
the US started to look into expansion of its defense arsenal in Europe, which
eventually led them to Poland.

It is no surprise then that Russia saw it as an unfriendly gesture at best.
Any independent country would, when all of a sudden someone dumps the anti-
ballistic treaty and then decides to build a defensive shield along your
borders.

The EU has traditionally been used as a playground to advance the US agenda.
The proposed defense system is no exception. Gladly, it did not come to
fruition. Otherwise, we'd seen a very different Europe now.

Given our attachment to history, Russia is still often seen as this "cold war"
aggressor out to get you. But if the past decade is of any lesson, I think we
have a new candidate on this role.

~~~
Arwill
>Any independent country would, when all of a sudden someone dumps the anti-
ballistic treaty and then decides to build a defensive shield along your
borders.

Look at this from Poland's side. Not building the defensive shield means that
Russia has still the right to pressure the country with missiles. Russia
wouldn't need to object the defense shield if they didn't want that.
Pressuring your neighbors with weapons is still cold war tactics. In this case
Russia was clearly the bad guy. Russia is also the bad guy when it manipulates
the energy prices for Europe, but it seems that wasn't enough for them.

~~~
arethuza
Would the missile defence system that was planned for Poland really have
protected Poland from attack from Russia? They are pretty close so cruise
missiles and/or aircraft would presumably be preferable to use rather than
ballistic missiles.

~~~
rdtsc
The opposite is true. Poland would have been wiped out as the first order of
business if anything was about to start. I suspect them being a prime target
might have given them some thought.

~~~
arethuza
The Russians apparently announced they would have deployed Iskander theatre
missiles in the Kaliningrad Oblast to target any US missile defence base in
Poland:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K720_Iskander](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K720_Iskander)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_missile_defense_complex_in_P...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_missile_defense_complex_in_Poland)

------
tonyplee
Very soon, Russia, Saudi, India and anyother countries can demand Google,
Facebook, twitter,'s servers be located inside their borders and allow their
own intelligent agents to access, inspect it.

Since China block google, Facebook, twitter already, they can also make the
demand for Apple imsg, icloud, Microsoft and Skype servers be inside China ,
else they are blocked. Apple, M$ will have to agree or risk loosing that
market.

------
aptwebapps
For official state use, not general use.

~~~
1morepassword
Which is technically illegal in most countries, storing government information
on foreign systems.

Up until now, it may have been tolerated as long as it didn't concern
obviously sensitive information, but you can expect a total ban in most
countries on the planet, not just paranoid Russia.

------
ern
Since I don't know enough about Russia, I can't dismiss this report as
sensationalist, but something tells me it is.

Perhaps someone with more knowledge can tell us if Russian law requires intent
to prove "high treason"? And how influential is this "Lower House deputy"
anyway?

~~~
VladRussian2
This is just another episode in anti-american hysteria reality show called
Russian internal politics.

>if Russian law requires

there is no such thing as "Russian law" in the sense "law" is understood in
the Western world. There is though a will of whoever has the power - it is
real Russian law and it doesn't require any prove for a guilty verdict.

>And how influential is this "Lower House deputy" anyway?

Just a government mouthpiece. The elections are based on party lists. So
beyond 10th position in the leading party and 2-3rd position in other parties,
these people are unknown nobodies. Some just buy the position in the list to
get immunity from various criminal prosecutions the face.

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einhverfr
Obviously providing such data to the NSA is a crime. It's helping a foreign
power, and it is taking away jobs from Russians at various Russian
intelligence programs who now have less information about Russian citizens to
look at.....

------
mtgx
Another interesting turn of events. It seems Russia is considering asylum for
Snowden:

 _The head of the foreign affairs committee in Russia 's State Duma, or lower
house of parliament, predicted "hysteria in the United States," if Russia were
to agree to shelter Mr. Snowden, whom he likened to controversial WikiLeaks
founder Julian Assange.

“Having promised Snowden refuge, Moscow is taking up the defense of those
persecuted for political reasons. There will be hysteria in the United
States,” Alexei Pushkov wrote on Twitter. “In listening to phone calls and
tacking Internet activity, U.S. intelligence agencies have violated the laws
of their own country. In this sense, Snowden—like Assange—is a human-rights
activist.”_

[http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732463430457853...](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324634304578538742328320134.html)

Note: You can search the URL in Google to get the full story)

~~~
adobriyan
Week ago, criminal case against vkontakte.ru's founder Pavel Durov was closed
stating that he didn't intent to hit road police officer by a car after
traffic jam halted his fleeing.

He did or he didn't, the rumor now is that FSB doesn't need classified
intelligence committee hearings to access vkontakte.ru data now.

~~~
notimetorelax
I can believe that, even more after they started requesting mobile phone
numbers to login into vk.com. Since I refuse to give my number I cannot access
or remove my profile.

~~~
lobotryas
What about Google Voice or a localized alternative for a virtual phone number?
Worst case - burner phone.

Another thing to keep in mind: even if you "delete" your profile, given the
situation there's zero guarantee that all copies of the data will be
destroyed.

------
Fuxy
Well this is interesting... This may just turn out to be a good opportunity
for European companies to take over from Facebook, Google and twitter.

It would take a super human effort though. Unlikely it would happen but here's
hoping.

That would definitely send a message to the corporate system of America.

Mess with our privacy and you loose your audience.

------
ethanazir
Using Google itself is the biggest problem. Russia, Germany, somebody needs to
create an alternative.

~~~
pekk
Yandex and Baidu have existed for a long time, go ahead and use them if you
want to.

~~~
lobotryas
Why risk giving data to Russia/China when we have duckduckgo?

~~~
ttrreeww
Under US jurisdiction.

~~~
lobotryas
True, although DDG's dedication to anonymizing searches seems it would make
data retrieval more difficult.

That said, the options look unappealing. If it really comes down to it, would
you rather be giving your information away to US, Chinese or Russian agents?

~~~
ttrreeww
I'd rather give it away to the one that I'm not under the jurisdiction of.

------
silveira
And what are the good email alternatives for an civilian that wants a good
service and privacy?

~~~
r4pha
What I use is thunderbird + enigmail, which encrypts the message with the
receiver's public key and/or signs it with my private key.

I don't know if that's the best thing for privacy. I would appreciate a lot to
hear some pros/cons.

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Fice
We saw this already with Skype. FSB: we are not able to eavesdrop Skype calls
and Skype is controlled by US, so it must be banned. And some time later: we
reached an agreement with Microsoft, Skype is OK.

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Ntrails
See, this instantly makes me wonder how Russia (and everyone else for that
matter) will respond to the "always on" kinect on the xbone...

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gus_massa
This is only a suggestion of a MP. Is Ilya Kostunov an important politician in
Russia? What are the chances that this idea will become a law?

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bhdz
I may sound paranoid and crazy but it smells horribly of gunpowder these
months (excuse me if I am not contributing new information)

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jebblue
Putin gets divorced and all of a sudden there are Russian warships moving into
the Mediterranean and now Russian citizens might be punished for using
Facebook or Gmail.

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davemaya
This is a rule in every governmental agency.

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draven
The original title is "Russia may deem civil servants’ use of Gmail, Facebook
‘high treason’", the edited one is a tad more sensationalist.

~~~
alan_cx
I wonder why it was changed, that one is bad enough.

I have to say, if I were asked by a business which valued privacy, I'd tell
then to contractually and physically block all US services.

I mean, if I were working one some product I wanted to keep secret for
reasonable market reasons, like hell would I want my employees using gmail and
the like to discuss it. I would also be nervous about employees leaving them
selves open to blackmail because of facebook posts. Look at Alan Turing's
experience of being gay. Say my lead developer was a member of a "secret" gay
group on FB and became compromised? Now imagine I was not a business, but a
government.

~~~
pekk
OK, I understand why you don't want people you work with to use Gmail. But
treason for using Gmail? And what is the penalty? And we think this is a fair
idea, to completely ruin people's lives because they use the 'wrong' internet
service that we don't like?

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ttrreeww
I agree with Russia on this one.

