
Andreessen Horowitz Invests $15M In Text Annotation Startup Rap Genius - kapilkale
http://techcrunch.com/2012/10/03/andreessen-horowitz-iinvests-15-million-in-rap-genius/
======
citricsquid
Rapgenius is seriously wonderful. I've been listening to more and more rap
recently and using rapgenius to find and understand lyrics, the fact that they
have the people _writing the tracks_ commenting on the interpretations (via
videos) makes it even better.

I finally got to contribute to the site a few weeks ago and I was super happy
when they accepted my contribution, I don't know why I was happy, I only got
to fix a typo, but it still felt great.

I have no idea how they can make money and the idea seemed silly to me the
first time I heard about it ("a site where people explain lyrics is part of
yc?") but after using it I'm in love. My enjoyment of rap music has increased
thanks to rapgenius.

~~~
tedmiston
The dying reply to this post mentions quality control for explanations. It's
definitely a real concern. Not all of the explanations are spot on. Some are
outright wrong, some are definitely thrown up very quickly for fast karma,
some are shallow explanations, some are jokes and not really explanations at
all. That aside, we're dealing with poetry -- obviously some things are open
to interpretation.

For those curious of use outside of rap music, you can see The Bill of Rights
(50% explained) by James Madison ft. Thomas Jefferson [1].

1: <http://rapgenius.com/James-madison-the-bill-of-rights-lyrics>

~~~
rjtavares
I don't mind the jokes - I actually find it fits the culture. They should
expands with a another site for "normal" content though. Using Rap Genius has
obvious branding issues...

~~~
tedmiston
I believe their longterm plan will go turn their platform into a framework to
build other niche communities. Sort of like the relationship between Stack
Overflow and Stack Exchange.

------
scrame
Rapgenius is good in the way StackOverflow is good: A novel, well-executed UI
to a kind of website that has been done to death (in this case its lyrics
sites). Not to mention good SEO.

It also suffers from the same problem, which is that the users that are most
engaged are often not the best people to give explanations. I pretty
frequently see tracks that have bad annotations, misunderstand lines (not to
mention just straight out wrong lyrics), or break the context.

Here's an example: [http://rapgenius.com/Aesop-rock-were-famous-
lyrics#note-7597...](http://rapgenius.com/Aesop-rock-were-famous-
lyrics#note-759772)

That entire stanza the "favorite" is totally sarcastic, he's specifically
calling out another MC (Esoteric) for just doing lame songs about
transformers. In fact, the 2 marks after that block (which are part of the
same verse) are properly noting who he is targeting. So in this case, the the
lyrics are wrong, the selected lines are breaking the context, and the
explanation is totally contrary to whats even being discussed.

There is no "crowdsourced" way of fixing this, just a note that the "staff"
hasn't verified it. I see this pretty frequently, actually on pretty much
every track I've looked up there.

I think its a great idea, but it should take a lesson from SO or even
wikipedia on how to actually correct problems like this, rather than just
leaving it to the first person to post it.

Edit: This may be a factor of this stuff being a bit more obscure and dense
than your average Kanye or Rick Ross track, as well as being unpopular, but
I've put in several suggestions over the last year and never heard back
anything about things being accepted or being able to actually make
corrections.

~~~
beaumartinez
OT: I'm a big fan of Esoteric—interesting observation. He is a bit gimmicky at
times (I trust you've seen his "Pterovision" videos on YouTube[1]—they're
actually very funny).

[1] <http://www.youtube.com/user/pterolab>

~~~
scrame
Yeah, that example just stuck with me since I've been trying to dig up all the
tracks related to the Demigodz/Def Jux beef, which is all pretty hilarious.
Especially 10 years later. I came across the rapgenius page trying to find
"we're famous" on youtube (like I said, Good SEO!), and was just struck at how
completely off the mark the commentary was on it.

~~~
inthewoods
Great to see some underground hip-hop fans on here - for years I was part of
an underground duo called Raw Produce - we weren't big enough to reach
RapGenius.

I'll just mention that Eso is a good friend and is just as funny in person as
on record. We were fortunate to record a few songs with him - lotta fun. I'm a
huge fan of El-P, but he was not, as one would say, a particularly warm
individual. And El laid out Eso pretty good in that diss.

------
quasistar
Gods they must be cray

Lyrics over HTTP?

What would Kool Herc say?

Venture valuation

Drifting to the perihelion

Maboo with the Bently scout

Now Marissa's got her checkbook out

Annotations the new cream

Even writin up your daydreams

Like Cobb with one last job

Wakin up before you scream

A Venn diagram intersection

"Seems like a bad idea"

"No really is a good idea"

Priceless like a loan rejection

Copyright in Fringe mint

Walter Bishop eating Thin Mints

Don't require six senses

To see text bubbles everywhere

Maybe time to give up the ghost

Or upgrade to a $7 sponsored post

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iball
ilan, one of the founders of rap genius here..

we're ready to blow up the bank accounts of brilliant engineers (rails, ios)
and designers who want to help us create the internet talmud™

if you're interested, send links to stuff you've built or any work you're
proud of! jobs@rapgenius.com

<3

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streptomycin
I love Rap Genius, but haven't lyrics websites been repeatedly shut down in
the past for copyright infringement? For instance,
[http://news.cnet.com/lyrics-sites-out-of-tune-with-
copyright...](http://news.cnet.com/lyrics-sites-out-of-tune-with-
copyrights/2100-1027_3-6203085.html)

I always assumed that this was why all the lyrics websites were shitty and ad-
infested - get money while you can, before you get shut down. And I also
assumed that was why Google or Yahoo or some other competent people didn't
make a nice lyrics website to outcompete them.

So what's different about Rap Genius?

~~~
citricsquid

        I always assumed that this was why all the lyrics websites were shitty and ad-infested
    

About a year ago someone talked about lyric websites (either here or on
reddit) and they explained that the reason they have terrible adverts isn't
because they get shut down, it's because user retention is terrible. People
only look for lyrics now and again[1], it's google -> click link -> read
lyrics -> leave, there's no browsing, very few people have any loyalty to any
lyric site, so they have to make as much as they can off that 1 visit because
they probably won't be back.

[1] I think rapgenius solves this problem by providing value way beyond just
lyrics

~~~
streptomycin
However, they are still questionably legal, and they do get shut down from
time to time.

~~~
citricsquid
I did a bit of research, the largest website for lyrics is metrolyrics.com,
they are owned by CBS (as of October 2011) and they license all their lyrics
through a company called Gracenote (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracenote>)
it's plausible that Rapgenius are also licensing through this company, or
similar? Seems there is a way for a lyric website to exist legitimately.

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tworats
I've been impressed by Andreedsen Horowitz's approach of recognizing winners
in large markets and putting large amounts of money to work. It's gutsy and
smart.

However, I'm concerned about putting large amounts of money into startups that
have yet to become businesses. An over-abundance of resources is often
detrimental to realizing a vision and finding a market.

Anyway, I remain a fan of A16Z and suspect they've seen something compelling
not yet visibile to the outside observer.

~~~
pirroh
For sure he's gutsy, but _venture_ capital today means mostly "putting large
amounts of money into startups that have yet to become businesses"-YCombinator
demo day is the most fitting example that comes to my mind right now.

At least it's a breath of fresh air... no _disruption_ just for the sake of
using a buzzword--rather money poured on a project that has a faithful
community, and with some niche design choices. Reminds of anything? Reddit!

------
tomlemon
Read the official announcement on Rap Genius: [http://rapgenius.com/Marc-
andreessen-why-andreessen-horowitz...](http://rapgenius.com/Marc-andreessen-
why-andreessen-horowitz-is-investing-in-rap-genius-lyrics)

------
twoodfin
Intriguing. It's hard to imagine any creative work of art or engineering that
couldn't benefit from well-curated annotation. Browsing around Rap Genius, I
can't help but wish for a digital copy of _Ulysses_ with this kind of
interface to crowd-sourced commentary.

But outside of big traffic draws like song lyrics, I'm not sure what the
monetization potential is.

~~~
pemulis
There are incredible online annotations for novels by Thomas Pynchon[1] and
David Foster Wallace's Infinite Jest[2], which are what I thought of first
when they talked about expanding into annotating literature. The monetization
potential in that area in particular is huge, looking at Cliffs Notes and the
like. It's interesting that Andreessen Horowitz is investing in a company that
seems to be solving the community problem rather than the technical problem of
mass annotation. It seems like the technical challenges were the main hold-up
back in the early 90s, but Wikipedia has shown the power and importance of
community building when you're trying to create a universal reference.

[1] <http://pynchonwiki.com/>

[2] [http://infinitejest.wallacewiki.com/david-foster-
wallace/ind...](http://infinitejest.wallacewiki.com/david-foster-
wallace/index.php?title=Main_Page)

------
kbkb
Awesome news! I've been a fan of rapgenius for a while and its nice to see
Mahbod getting props. I hadn't considered the possibilities outside of hip hop
lyrics, but as the article points out there is a huge potential within legal
text, academic papers, etc (hopefully not the bible or other religious text...
I can imagine that becoming a huge clusterf*ck).

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czzarr
This is awesome. I remember when the name of rapgenius was decided on the two
plus two forums between rapopedia, rapexegesis and rapgenius.

The initial traction really came from the high stakes online poker player
community and two plus two generally. I wonder why one of the first guys to be
involved, Ariel Schneller (Foxwoodsfiend/Daevils/MikeVickisGod on poker sites)
dropped out of the adventure.

This is him commenting on the funding on 2p2:
[http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=35110971...](http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=35110971&postcount=145)

~~~
wilfra
Online Poker Mafia blowin up huge. Strasser got his own hedge fund. Who's
next?

"I wonder why one of the first guys to be involved, Ariel Schneller...dropped
out"

He's been in Harvard Law School, before that working on DeucesCracked/crushing
high stakes etc. Not hard to see why he'd choose that instead of working on a
rap lyrics website. I think lots of people underestimated this team.

Congrats guys!

------
Tossrock
Interesting. I saw the founders at ycombinator's Work for a Startup day, where
a bunch of YC companies basically pitched their companies, but to engineers
instead of investors. The rap genius guys were there, but with handmade signs,
and didn't present. Honestly, at the time I thought they had snuck in or
something. They were hustling people all night trying to convince them to come
work for them; gotta respect the dedication.

------
cs702
I first learned of Rap Genius in the Yale Alumni Magazine earlier this year,
and concluded that the idea was clever but the business opportunity small.[1]
Now that Rap Genius is expanding its target market to _general_ text
annotation, the business opportunity looks substantial to me. Off the top of
my head, I'm thinking analysis of textbooks, critiques of literary works, and
commentary on the news -- the potential uses are many. Hats off to the team.

\--

[1]
[http://www.yalealumnimagazine.com/issues/2012_05/feature_rap...](http://www.yalealumnimagazine.com/issues/2012_05/feature_rap.html)

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brnstz
RapGenius is a nice site for viewing lyrics and understanding obscure (to you)
references. But a tally sheet of line-by-line references is not really an
"explanation" of a rap/song/poem. Literary allusion has a long history and it
can deepen the intellectual/emotional experience of a work, but people can get
too obsessed with understanding "references" while missing the forest from the
trees.

It's great the site isn't limited to rap, though. No one has tackled
explaining Howl yet :) <http://rapgenius.com/Alan-ginsberg-howl-lyrics>

~~~
lunchbox
On the right of each song page is a section dedicated to explaining the whole
song. I don't see the problem.

------
NelsonMinar
Not a bad investment for a little white devil sophistry. (Re:
<http://rapgenius.com/Das-racist-middle-of-the-cake-lyrics>)

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dumb-dumb
I've seen this done with specific bands, but this is a great idea for a
website. Regardless of how well they execute, it's just a great idea. Lyric
sites are huge, but many of them are rather crappy (I guess because they try
too hard to monetize). Annotations of lyrics are scattered across many sites.
It would be great to have them all in one place.

But let's hope it doesn't become like a CDDB fiasco.

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malandrew
I secretly hope that this startup ends up producing many gems similar to the
"Rap Battle Translated" video: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6H0i1RAdHk>

This would make it like a "meme in motion" generator. Like moot's Canvas but
for video.

~~~
samstave
Both of those were really entertaining, but I far prefer the translation
version...

I'd also be interested in seeing white 17th century aristocrates engage in a
duel whereby they use modern rap battle language whilst in the setting of a
victorian sword/gun draw-style duel.

------
jmccaffrey
I had no idea Rap Genius was a YC company. I listen to _alot_ of rap while
working, and often look up the more intricate lyrics/phrases I haven't heard
of.

Rap Genius is far and way the best site, the next step down the ladder is
things like Yahoo Answers...

------
staunch
The idea that it could turn into a large music-oriented social network (a
next-gen MySpace) or some kind of scalable annotation platform could make this
not insane. Big opportunity + big risk = perfect YC/AH investment.

I have a feeling that the SEO battle for their keywords is about to get a lot
more fierce though. I doubt they've solidified their spot in Google yet, so
any tweak on Google's part or a blackhat SEO could seriously set them back.

~~~
kapilkale
They've got great unique content. This is good for two reasons:

a) Google loves unique content. Unique content on old-world lyrics websites
consists of comments buried under the fold. Whereas these guys have pages and
subpages full of it.

b) They're going to get a bajillion inbound links because their content is
interesting to link to (as opposed to standard lyrics sites). Which will rank
them higher than their competitors for the same queries.

I see a lot of comparisons with Yelp. I still type in business names with
"Yelp" appended into google because I want a specific result. Wouldn't be
surprised if they're getting the same sort of queries already since what they
have is so much better than any lyrics site.

Side note: I just opened AZ lyrics and some flash abomination nearly crashed
my browser.

~~~
undergroundhero
_b) They're going to get a bajillion inbound links because their content is
interesting to link to (as opposed to standard lyrics sites). Which will rank
them higher than their competitors for the same queries._

This is true today, and RapGenius has a great linking feature that lets you
link to a single line explanation in the lyrics (helpful so the recipient
doesn't have to scroll through and find the line of interest).

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dwhly
We think this is a great day for annotation. But we had a few questions. So we
wrote an open letter to Marc Andreessen and Rap Genius.

[https://blog.hypothes.is/a-letter-to-marc-andreessen-and-
rap...](https://blog.hypothes.is/a-letter-to-marc-andreessen-and-rap-genius/)

~~~
pirroh
"Annotation eventually belongs in the browser." Couldn't agree more.

Endless comment streams proved to be of little if no value. Rap Genius is a
glaring example that annotations (when designed and user properly) have way
more potential than comments. The big money investment on Rap Genius just
seals the deal, and pave the way for a Web where annotations are first class
citizens.

Hope all the browsers will jump in the bandwagon very soon.

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gadders
I always feel I'd get on with Ben Horowitz, given his apparent liking for a)
hip-hop, b) boxing and c) technology and business (although mfar ore
successful at it than me).

If I found he liked fly-fishing as well we'd be like blood brothers or
something.

------
ablefire
They should apply the Rapgenius magic to Shakespeare. Crowdsourced Cliff
Notes++.

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yumraj
I guess "Spray and pray" strategy at works. Now if Rap Genius can figure out
how to steer clear of potential copyright violations and come up with a
revenue model, they could be successful.

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trotsky
how do you avoid licensing all the content you're making available for
annotation? If you're going to annotate literature that's under copyright (for
example) won't you pretty much have to provide the base work to anyone looking
for annotations?

Or is the idea to build up content until you get slapped and then license it
back to existing licensees like amazon or rhapsody?

Looks a bit like the latter given the pretty broad sublicensing in the TOU,
"Hip Hop Wikipedia" except, you know, for the part where everyone can use the
information.

------
sethbannon
Another win for NYC tech.

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debacle
What a simple, hindsightedly obvious idea with tons of appeal.

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clobber
How is Rap Genius different from songmeanings.net?

~~~
qq66
From a UI perspective, Rap Genius explains lyrics line-by-line whereas
SongMeanings is more of a discussion of the whole song, and Rap Genius tends
to canonicalize explanations whereas SongMeanings is more of a free-for-all
discussion. The line-by-line system is much better for rap music.

~~~
nrlucas
For all music. You can select lines or stanzas, so it has all levels of scope
in regard to the annotations.

------
josscrowcroft
Really, does nobody else read the logo as _"rapegenius"_?

Honestly not being crude or puerile here - I choked on tea when I saw it...

A tiny little bit of spacing between the words would go a long way here I
feel.

~~~
mikeryan
Tahts teh wya we raed we tedn to recnognze wrod shpaes instaed of the wrods
thmeslevse

