
DHS will continue to enforce all of President Trump’s Executive Orders - aburan28
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2017/01/29/department-homeland-security-response-recent-litigation
======
daeken
We now have a government agency publicly disregarding an injunction by the
Federal courts. This is bad. This goes far beyond this specific issue (which,
while nasty, affects relatively few people). This sets a fucking awful
precedent.

This _cannot_ be allowed to happen. I would love to see everyone violating
this injunction (and ordering others to do so) be put in jail, just as if I or
anyone else were to violate such a court order.

~~~
aerovistae
> The Department of Homeland Security will comply with judicial orders;

Think you might've read over that

~~~
jrockway
Except reports are: they _aren't_ complying, and are being told not to comply.

This press release is words, not actions.

~~~
smsm42
"Reports are" is rather vague. Which reports are about this non-compliance, in
which form they are not complying?

~~~
jrockway
I had already posted this elsewhere in the thread:
[https://plus.google.com/+YonatanZunger/posts/T72eVRRHv39](https://plus.google.com/+YonatanZunger/posts/T72eVRRHv39)

~~~
smsm42
This link says there are "confirmed reports" that DHS disregards the stays -
namely, deports people - but does not provide any details, e.g. which person
named in the stays was deported, by whom, on what grounds (e.g. people can be
rejected not only on this exec order, people has been deported long before
Trump), who confirmed it, etc. Even that report plainly says "I simply don't
have enough information yet, and hope to update as we know more". I suggest to
wait until that update before proclaiming DHS is actually refused court orders
with no proof of such. I understand that _if_ they do it it would be a big
deal, that's exactly why saying it happened before we know it actually
happened is wrong.

------
nl
I think this story is the most important thing I've read so far:

 _Friday night, DHS arrived at the legal interpretation that the executive
order restrictions applying to seven countries [..] did not apply [..] to []
green card holders._

 _The White House overruled that guidance overnight, according to officials
familiar with the rollout. That order came from the President 's inner circle,
led by Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon._ .....

 _Bannon wanted turmoil and condemnation. He wanted this executive order to
get as much publicity as possible.[..] He thinks this will be a PR win.

Liberals think the same thing. All the protests, the court judgments, the
press coverage: this is something that will make middle America understand
just what Trump is really all about. And once they figure it out, they'll turn
on him.

[..] After a week of skirmishes, this is finally a hill that both sides are
willing to die for. Who's going to win?_

[http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/01/trumps-
immigra...](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/01/trumps-immigration-
fiasco-might-be-more-premeditated-we-think)

------
matthewmacleod
_No foreign national in a foreign land, without ties to the United States_

Permanent residents who have lived in the US for years and are travelling have
no ties to the country? That's a stupid statement.

~~~
throwaway942024
...isn't permanent residence a tie to the United States?

~~~
daeken
Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that this executive order puts them
solidly in the crosshairs. That's what makes the statement so ridiculous.

------
BHSPitMonkey
> Yesterday, less than one percent of the more than 325,000 international air
> travelers who arrive every day were inconvenienced while enhanced security
> measures were implemented.

Oh, well as long as it's only minorities who have to suffer, then I guess all
is well.

~~~
dom0
"Works for me" \- people every time this shit happens

When the Nazis came for the communists,

I remained silent;

I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,

I remained silent;

I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,

I did not speak out;

I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,

I remained silent;

I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,

there was no one left to speak out.

Martin Niemöller, 1946

Now, of course the US aren't a Nazi state... yet. It's very important to make
sure it stays that way, that should be the civil duty of all real democrats in
your country right now.

------
xenadu02
I wonder how much of the ambiguity is incompetence and how much is willful?

This administration would be far from the first government to deliberately
play dumb, issue contradictory statements, and otherwise sow confusion to keep
any potential opposition scattered and on the defensive. Of course it could
all just be a really sloppy transition.

I'm going to assume the last paragraph in the statement is controlling and
they will comply (even though we are getting reports of some DHS offices
ignoring the stay). But what if they don't?

Refusal to follow court orders will be the end of the United States. Once you
break that seal everything falls apart. We have appeals for a reason. Congress
has the power to change the law (thus overriding the courts) for a reason.
This is also something some of us warned you Trump supporters about and you
ignored it or laughed it off.

If you think Steve Bannon (new de-facto head of the National Security Council)
gives two shits about the rule of law I've got a bridge to sell you. We
already know Trump doesn't give a crap when he started bashing the US citizen
judge presiding over his Trump University case by saying he wasn't qualified
to judge the case because he was "Mexican". It's a trivial step to declare
Congress invalid and establish "temporary emergency measures".

Even if you agree with Trump and support him you should understand how refusal
to follow our legal process is a direct threat to everyone... a far greater
long-term threat than letting 10,000 terrorists into the country. We can
rebuild buildings. We cannot so easily rebuild a functioning democracy.

If you think the FBI or police agencies would step in to stop Trump from
declaring himself dictator you are sadly mistaken.

I hope this is just incompetence. If it isn't then the day is coming soon when
every one of us must pick a side and take direct action. Fortunately I don't
expect that to happen, but the chances have moved up "impossible".

------
clhodapp
> President Trump’s Executive Order affects a minor portion of international
> travelers, and is a first step towards reestablishing control over America's
> borders and national security.

Whelp (editing out the explicative here), this makes it the official position
of the DHS that the already-over-the-top measures they have been taking in
recent years are not sufficient to establish "control over America's borders
and national security".

~~~
ciconia
Yep, kinda makes you wonder what the hell they've been doing up until now...

------
gizmo385
"Yesterday, less than one percent of the more than 325,000 international air
travelers who arrive every day were inconvenienced while enhanced security
measures were implemented."

I guess getting detained and denied entry into the country is "enhanced
security measures"?

~~~
skuhn
Interesting that they finally gave a scope to the people impacted. 3200 people
doesn't seem like chump change to me.

And I guess deporting people is the most enhanced security measure of them
all. If we could deport everyone that lives in the US, I bet security would be
pretty tight.

~~~
kyledrake
up to 3200 _per day_.

~~~
skuhn
Only people this one day will get these "enhanced security measures" though, I
guess. Since they won't let any of these people board flights from now on,
their experiences will be differently enhanced tomorrow.

Regardless of how many people are actually turned away or detained in the
airports or elsewhere, every single person with citizenship of one of these
countries and a valid green card or visa is impacted (hundreds of thousands of
people). Those still in the US are prisoners here now. They can't risk leaving
the country for any reason.

Even if this executive order expires in 90 days and things go back to normal
(which I doubt), they will still be afraid. The rule of law has been weakened.

------
ciconia
I was a foreign student at UCSD during 9/11 and have witnessed the hysterical
reaction of the Bush administration, the establishment of the DHS and the TSA
and their ridiculous security theatre.

At a time when the world is more interconnected than ever, and technology
offers "the world at your fingertips", these bigots want to shut us in and
make everybody hate each other.

Personally, it is heartbreaking to see the self-proclaimed "land of the free,
home of the brave", the nation that once promised to be a _sanctuary_ to the
"huddled masses yearning to breathe free", in the grip of a paranoid meltdown.

~~~
cmurf
The entire country is not in a meltdown. There's a president and a handful of
Angsthasen in a meltdown, pretty much successfully dragging their party with
them, and trying to drag the country into one also.

Give it time to process. We have been through much worse. Don't write off the
whole lot who do not agree with the true intent of these policies.

Now maybe some of us can stop being so naive about broken campaign promises?
Obviously there are some that should not have been made, but they certainly
should not have been kept. Notice the emphasis by the administration on
keeping campaign promises. That is an explicit dig at all Trump voters: they
are claiming you want this. You are being made complicit, even if you think
you voted for other reasons.

~~~
diyorgasms
Trump guys are, have been, and always will be complicit in the pain,
suffering, and death we are visiting on people. I will never forgive them for
this.

------
mdsfwrz
"No foreign national in a foreign land, without ties to the United States, has
any unfettered right to demand entry into the United States"\-- how about
those with green cards and visas that we are already gave the right to live
here to?

~~~
Swizec
Unfortunately only citizenship _guarantees_ entry. Visas and green cards are
more like guidelines. Very strong guidelines, but guidelines non-the-less.

Only a DHS agent can grant entry to non-citizens. On a case by case basis.

I imagine the questions are going to get harder. No more easy peasy things
like "Where do you work?", "Why are you coming?", "Are you staying?".

------
bnolsen
My niece and my aunt are coming to visit in a few days and there seems to be
no issues. A lot of noise over stalling a few countries with serious terrorist
and isis presence. Its going to be a few tough years as the media openly has
the knives out and will do anything to bash the president.

~~~
Buge
Were your niece and aunt born in one of the 7 countries in the ban (Iran,
Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Libya, Yemen, Somalia)? If not, then their situation is
irrelevant.

------
anarazel
That doesn't really seem to say much. The stay was only for in-transit
passengers, it said naught about denying boarding. And the statement said
they'll comply with court orders.

As much as I detest what's happening - what else would they say?

------
OJFord
> _No foreign national in a foreign land, without ties to the United States,
> has any unfettered right to demand entry into the United States_

Well, Commonwealth citizens have a head of state who:

> _Requests and requires ... all those whom it may concern to allow the bearer
> to pass freely without let or hindrance, and to afford the bearer such
> assistance and protection as may be necessary._

:) - I'm sort of joking of course, nothing wrong with the DHS quote, it's just
unfortunate (to put it lightly) for those who _have_ been there and are
suddenly... well, fettered.

------
tn13
It is obvious that DHS and all others must obey the law.

It is important to note that the people affected here are not just the hijab
wearing sharia loving Muslims (as trump might describe them) but also people
who helped US army carry out the unnecessary operations in their homeland and
as a result face danger in their own country. Some top notch researchers or
even activists who are fighting the oppressive regimes in their home
countries.

As an immigrant I think I better max out my credit cards borrow all possible
loans before leaving USA !

~~~
threeseed
Actually those types of Muslims eg. from Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Malaysia
etc. are still welcome in the US. Even though some countries eg Indonesia have
quite the homegrown terrorist network.

Clearly this was never about terrorism. It's about cynically assigning blame
to countries who have no means to fight back ie. a Trump hotel or military
purchasing power.

------
kchoudhu
That's some grade-A doublespeak right there. Are they going to follow the
courts' orders or not?

------
jrockway
Is this code for, "we're ignoring the injunction"?

~~~
arthulia
no it's not code. They are literally saying that.

~~~
jrockway
You appear to be correct. Wow.

I just saw this on my G+ stream:
[https://plus.google.com/+YonatanZunger/posts/T72eVRRHv39](https://plus.google.com/+YonatanZunger/posts/T72eVRRHv39)

Also wow.

~~~
kchoudhu
Oh my. That said (and this is not casting any aspersion on Yonathan) is there
someone closer to governance/immigration law with the same take?

------
clark-kent
Sounds like a puff piece by the Trump DHS to appear tough while adding a tiny
line > The Department of Homeland Security will comply with judicial orders

------
andrewclunn
"They have made their ruling. Now let's see them enforce it." \- Andrew
Jackson

------
vargalas
"The Department of Homeland Security will comply with judicial orders;"

------
Tulip68
This is not hyperbole: if this statement is accurate, a _coup d 'etat_ is in
progress in which our illegitimate "President" is overriding the authority of
the judicial branch and it is time for every American who still believes in
our constitution and our fundamental values of equality, diversity and
multiculturalism take a stand and along with every congressman, every law
enforcement officer, reporter, corporation, etc. to put aside petty partisan
bickering and remove this fascist con-man from office immediately. If we
don't, history will judge us all the same way as we judge those who looked
aside while Hitler made a mockery out of his country's democratic institutions
en route to handing himself supreme power.

I cannot overstate the danger we are all in every day this psychopathic
fascist is allowed to remain in that office. He must be stopped immediately.
Our most fundamental and cherished values are at stake here.

~~~
aerovistae
Again, I will point out that the article linked to here says they will ALSO
continue to comply with all judicial orders. Read carefully.

Really, the entire statement isn't that exciting, it just says "Agency will
continue to follow legal structure of government as all agencies do." Mostly
it's just an attempt to reassure people that things aren't as out of hand as
they seem.

~~~
skuhn
If the point is actually to reassure the reader, the tone is completely off. I
don't find seething rage to be very reassuring.

~~~
timClicks
You left out contempt and complete lack of sympathy. People die without access
to asylum.

~~~
skuhn
No one has the right to demand entry!

(especially not people we gave green cards and visas to after subjecting them
to years, or decades, of bureacracy and vetting)

------
SSLy
is there an option like "i don't really give a fuck about politics, US
especially" anywhere on this site? pretty please?

------
tomcam
Is this the post-post-political era of HN?

------
douche
Good. Glad to see that the government works once in a while.

If the tsa would fold up and go away, I would be the happiest

