
Python trademark at risk in Europe - arcatek
http://pyfound.blogspot.ca/2013/02/python-trademark-at-risk-in-europe-we.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed:+PythonSoftwareFoundationNews+(Python+Software+Foundation+News)
======
VanL
I (and probably several other) members of the board will be on this thread to
answer any questions.

Van Lindberg Chairman, Python Software Foundation

 _Edit:_ I have been asked what sort of statements would be helpful. I can't
tell you exactly what to say - it needs to be _your_ statement, but we need to
make it clear that when someone says "Python" in relation to software, or a
"Python server," or with "Python experience," they are referring to Python-
the-language.

We also want people to testify to their understanding that Python is
distributed by the Python Software Foundation.

These are not exactly the same, but this gives a flavor of some of the things
that can be helpful:

[https://www.dropbox.com/s/zxn212k5r8mg1k7/WitnessStatement.p...](https://www.dropbox.com/s/zxn212k5r8mg1k7/WitnessStatement.pdf)

In case anyone wants to know, it is CTM Application No. 10848208 PYTHON &
Device in the name of POBox Hosting

 _Edit 2:_ I have already received a book written in Spain, job postings about
Python, and a number of statements of support. Thank you! Please, keep sending
them. We need to make sure that it is clear that "Python" is _Python_ across
the entire EU.

~~~
jorde
At least Aalto University in Finland uses Python as the entry level teaching
language nowadays [1]. I don't know anyone from the CS department but I'll do
my best to reach out to them about the matter.

[1]: <https://noppa.aalto.fi/noppa/kurssi/t-106.1208/>

~~~
Alphasite_
University Of Glasgow as well, and this (rather incomplete) list from your own
website,
[http://wiki.python.org/moin/SchoolsUsingPython#United_Kingdo...](http://wiki.python.org/moin/SchoolsUsingPython#United_Kingdom).

~~~
KPLauritzen
There is no universities from Denmark on that list, and I know that several of
them offer courses in Python.

I've reached out to a professor from University of Copenhagen who teaches a
course on Molecular Dynamics using Python.

Another course from Copenhagen teaching Python is listed here
<http://sis.ku.dk/kurser/viskursus.aspx?knr=130419>

~~~
Tehnix
DTU (Technical University of Denmark) also has a Python course
<http://www.kurser.dtu.dk/02820.aspx?menulanguage=en>

------
grabeh
It should be stressed that usage of the mark must be shown to be of more than
local significance to defeat the application from the UK company. Consequently
it is vital that folks from as many EU countries as possible respond to the
request in the post.

I am surprised in some ways that you couldn't have attracted some pro bono
assistance for this cause. This is a case that I would have loved to have
drafted the opposition pleadings in relation to.

Although I would hope that the media attention that should arise as a result
of this application would be sufficient to cause the applicant to withdraw
their application, or at the very least narrow down the specification to
hosting services.

Even if the specification was narrowed down, the likelihood of confusion is
still high in my view.

This is a good read on the criteria that will have to be satisfied:

[http://assets.itma.org.uk/OHIM_Oppositions_based_on_Unregist...](http://assets.itma.org.uk/OHIM_Oppositions_based_on_Unregistered_Rights_Handout_A.pdf)

Finally, good luck!

~~~
VanL
Thanks for your words - and we would love to get your assistance and advice.
Unfortunately, our network of Python-using lawyers is much thinner in Europe
than in the US. Feel free to contact me!

~~~
grabeh
Sure thing - will send an email. Looks like K&S have got things fully under
control at present (had a look at the OHIM filings) but happy to be a sounding
board or provide whatever input I can.

------
adamt
I am from the UK and been programming in Python since before that domain was
registered and happy to help.

Am I missing something, if you go to Amazon.co.uk and search for "python" (not
just in books, but a top level saerch) - (e.g.
[http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-
alias%...](http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-
alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Python)) the top results are all books about the
Python programming language published in the UK.

Similarly search for "Python" on any Uk based jobs site

[http://jobsearch.monster.co.uk/jobs/?q=Python&cy=uk](http://jobsearch.monster.co.uk/jobs/?q=Python&cy=uk)
[http://www.technojobs.co.uk/search.phtml/Python/searchfield/...](http://www.technojobs.co.uk/search.phtml/Python/searchfield/location/radius/salary)

(can provide many more such links if you need)

There is no doubt about what Python means.

~~~
VanL
Thanks - this is a great thought. Our UK lawyers are going to be receiving a
pretty decent Python library. :)

Are there similar books in German, Italian, French, and Spanish?

~~~
zwp
Yes, lots. A quick sample below just based on searching amazon.{fr,it,es,de}.
Good luck.

French:

Apprendre à programmer avec Python 3 (Learn to program with python 3)
[http://www.amazon.fr/Apprendre-%C3%A0-programmer-avec-
Python...](http://www.amazon.fr/Apprendre-%C3%A0-programmer-avec-
Python/dp/2212134347/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1360874815&sr=1-1)

Python - Les Fondamentaux du langage (Python: foundations of the language)
[http://www.amazon.fr/Python-fondamentaux-langage-
Nouvelle-%C...](http://www.amazon.fr/Python-fondamentaux-langage-
Nouvelle-%C3%A9dition/dp/2746071711/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360874778&sr=8-1)

German:

Python 3: Das umfassende Handbuch (Python 3: The Comprehensive Handbook)
[http://www.amazon.de/Python-umfassende-Handbuch-Galileo-
Comp...](http://www.amazon.de/Python-umfassende-Handbuch-Galileo-
Computing/dp/3836219255/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1360873981&sr=8-2-fkmr1)

Python von Kopf bis Fuß (Python from Head to Toe)
[http://www.amazon.de/Python-von-Kopf-bis-
Fu%C3%9F/dp/3897213...](http://www.amazon.de/Python-von-Kopf-bis-
Fu%C3%9F/dp/3897213184/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1360873981&sr=8-3-fkmr1)

Einstieg in Python (Starting python) [http://www.amazon.de/Einstieg-Python-
Programmieranf%C3%A4nge...](http://www.amazon.de/Einstieg-Python-
Programmieranf%C3%A4nger-geeignet-
Computing/dp/3836217384/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360873981&sr=8-1-fkmr1)

Spanish:

Python para administración de sistemas Unix y Linux (Python for Unix and Linux
System Administration) [http://www.amazon.es/Python-
administraci%C3%B3n-sistemas-Ore...](http://www.amazon.es/Python-
administraci%C3%B3n-sistemas-Oreilly-Multimedia/dp/toc/8441525404)

Python 3 - al descubierto (Python 3 Discovered) [http://www.amazon.es/Python-
descubierto-Arturo-Fernandez-Mon...](http://www.amazon.es/Python-descubierto-
Arturo-Fernandez-
Montoro/dp/8493945048/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1360874429&sr=1-2)

Python. Guía de referencia (Python Reference Guide)
[http://www.amazon.es/Python-referencia-Oreilly-anaya-
Multime...](http://www.amazon.es/Python-referencia-Oreilly-anaya-
Multimedia/dp/8441523177/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1360874429&sr=1-3)

Italian:

Programmazione in Python (Programming in Python)
[http://www.amazon.it/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1/276-0254377-1517700?...](http://www.amazon.it/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1/276-0254377-1517700?__mk_it_IT=%C3%85M%C3%85Z%C3%95%C3%91&url=search-
alias%3Daps&field-keywords=python)

Imparare Python (Learn Python) [http://www.amazon.it/Imparare-Python-Mark-
Lutz/dp/8848125956...](http://www.amazon.it/Imparare-Python-Mark-
Lutz/dp/8848125956/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1360874583&sr=8-3)

------
nonamegiven
Europe seems to see Python as the name of a computer langauge.

CERN uses Python.

<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=cern+python>

They developed the PythonRoot package:
<http://alcaraz.home.cern.ch/alcaraz/PythonRoot/>

It's probably of interest that this and many other Python packages have the
word "Python" in the name of the package. I would hate to have to wonder
whether PythonCoolPackage was for the Python language, or for interaction with
some random company who chose Python as their trademark. I know that if
something says Python today it's most likely to do with the language.

The EuroPython Conference is certainly about the language. There are probably
other European conferences where you can assume that Python means Python.

<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=epc2006+python>

(pdf) [https://downloads.egenix.com/python/EPC2006-Developing-
Unico...](https://downloads.egenix.com/python/EPC2006-Developing-Unicode-
aware-applications-in-Python.pdf)

<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=python+conference+europe>

Airbus is hiring. They want people with Python on their resume:

[http://www.airbus.com/work/experienced-
candidates/opportunit...](http://www.airbus.com/work/experienced-
candidates/opportunities-in-india/structures/)

I think Python means Python in Europe.

~~~
nigma
PyPy was funded by the European Union as a Specific Targeted Research Project
between December 2004 and March 2007.
[http://cordis.europa.eu/search/index.cfm?fuseaction=proj.doc...](http://cordis.europa.eu/search/index.cfm?fuseaction=proj.document&PJ_RCN=7746170)

~~~
briancurtin
Yep, this is a part of our documentation for the case.

------
smortaz
I work at Microsoft on <http://pytools.codeplex.com> &
<https://www.windowsazure.com/en-us/develop/python>. LMK what we can do to
help by getting MSFT's legal team on this.

~~~
briancurtin
Shahrokh, great to see this. I'll pass it on and see what we can work out.

------
draegtun
Similar thing happened with the Perl trademark in Japan back in 2010 -
[http://blogs.perl.org/users/lestrrat/2011/09/perl-
trademark-...](http://blogs.perl.org/users/lestrrat/2011/09/perl-trademark-in-
japan.html)

Fortunately it was resolved. Don't know if contacting someone at TPF or Japan
Perl Association might be helpful here?

TPF - <http://www.perlfoundation.org>

JPA - <http://japan.perlassociation.org>

Lestrrat (Daisuke Maki, author of the trademark blog post) contact details can
be found on his MetaCPAN page - <https://metacpan.org/author/DMAKI>

------
anyfoo
Contact Google. I'd venture that the chances of support are not low. Not only
do they have the mentality, they also had Guido van Rossum, python's inventor
and head developer, employed for years. And they are certainly well-known 8)

~~~
chris_mahan
Guido moved to Dropbox recently.

~~~
anyfoo
I know, I used the past tense! But I doubt they dropped support for python
overnight because he left %)

------
pdknsk
This is mostly OT, but when browsing python.org for listed corporate sponsors,
I noticed that some characters like ä or é are rendered as diamonds. This is
because the page charset is utf-8, but the mentioned characters are encoded in
iso-8859-1.

<http://python.org/psf/donations/>

Yeah, minor as can be, but IMO when someone donates they should've have
spelled their name right. I'm reporting this here because someone who can fix
this is most likely reading.

PS. IMO there is not much reason to worry. Python has so many friends. Google
should buy the company and close it.

~~~
yk
>PS. IMO there is not much reason to worry. Python has so many friends. Google
should buy the company and close it.

I think they should go to court. I somehow miss the SCO guy and his suitcase.

------
dinkumthinkum
It's sort of ironic and myopic for this little service to want to infringe or
start an issue with the Python, or even the programming community at large.
They do cloud hosting? So then I imagine a good portion of their business
deals with developers? That's a pretty good tact, I wonder how that will work
out for them. I wonder if they think they will get _good_ publicity out of
this.

~~~
clone1018
The best part about it is their servers probably come with Python
preinstalled, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the devs/sysadmins script in
python on the servers.

------
malkarouri
I did an RHCE exam in 2003, in their place in Surrey (Guildford IIRC). I am
pretty sure that Red Hat is a long time user and has been using Python to mean
the language in their software and documentation in the UK a long time ago.
Can you contact Red Hat or users of their software of exams for the last
twenty years to confirm that? I imagine they would be happy to help.

~~~
VanL
Great idea - will do.

------
billforsternz
Why would an obscure IT company want the name Python ? Aren't they
guaranteeing nobody will ever be able to locate them with a google search for
example ?

~~~
busterarm
They're hoping to cash out in lawsuits.

~~~
keithpeter
psf ain't rich. UK courts don't like gold diggers especially. Could end badly
for python-as-cloud-storage-company

------
RossM
What stings a little more is that the webserver at python.co.uk is running
Debian[1], which contains some version of Python by default (even in the
minimal install).

I hope our trademark office has the sense to reject this.

[1]: <http://builtwith.com/python.co.uk>

------
pbhjpbhj
> _They blew us off and responded by filing the community trademark
> application claiming the exclusive right to use "Python" for software,
> servers, and web services - everywhere in Europe._ //

I'm not a TM lawyer by a long shot but this looks like a knee-jerk response to
an entirely frivolous claim.

Python lacks distinctiveness in the category covering software because it
describes a long standing computer language and is moreover already associated
with other companies, such as PSF. OHIM or whoever is assessing the
application have to refuse the grant on this basis otherwise there would be a
severe curtailment to the ability for practitioners in the field to describe
basic and essential tools without confusion.

To grant such a term as a trademark, an indicator that goods and services
carrying the mark "python" originate with Veber/Pobox, would be an absolute
travesty akin to granting someone a mark for Jeans or Denim in the relevant
categories for clothing.

It worries me slightly to see that this appeal has been made because it
suggests a deficiency in legal counsel; unless the intention is to counter-
sue.

Trademark primacy can be established by long term use but holding a domain
name with a mark in [particularly one like Python that is established as a
{non-registered?} trade mark already, eg of PSF] doesn't demonstrate use of a
trade mark _for trade_. Moreover as I understand the TM law in the UK/EC it
should [according to statute] be impossible for anyone to register a trade
mark from under you, that is you would still be able to continue your prior
usage of the term. In this respect a RTM is somewhat like a patent, you can't
prevent someone from continuing in their prior [public] usage. As a quibble
grant of a registered trademark doesn't necessarily give exclusive rights for
this very reason.

On a side note, it seems they are also only applying for an image mark? That
would make the claim that they're trying to prevent your use of the term
Python wrong, they can only prevent you using their image or one confusingly
like it as I understand it.

FWIW the earliest CTM relevant Vienna class 9 application I could find was
from an individual in Germany from 2002 (002567972) and that the use was for
something to do with automobile tuning (see eg [http://www.offroad-
forum.de/viewtopic.php?t=11763&start=...](http://www.offroad-
forum.de/viewtopic.php?t=11763&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=937b8c61dae77ba390013753044e7a6f)).
PSF have an established use before that.

~~~
VanL
They are claiming the image mark, but the image is the word "Python" with only
minimal embellishment. Further, they have added broader rights in private
conversation.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
There's at least one company that already has a similar trademark registered,
indeed looking at the Python image marks this one from Veber looks pretty
close to a prior registered one (also in class 9 IIRC).

PSF are not going to want to use this companies image mark, really.

You don't gain legal rights by mentioning in conversation what you wish you
had the right to do/prevent.

------
teh_klev
JetBrains might be able to help, their HQ is in the Czech Republic and they
sell PyCharm an IDE for Python development:

<http://www.jetbrains.com/company/contacts/index.jsp#Local>

------
takluyver
In case no-one's already thought of it: Raspberry Pi is based in the UK, and
Python is the default 'educational language' on the boards, as per their FAQ.

------
trhtrsh
Wow, this won't suffice?

<http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=python>

<http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=python+software>

~~~
rbanffy
I'd go with a date range like
[http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=python&hl=en&sa=X&#...</a>

~~~
fnordfnordfnord
I'll see your date range (I didn't know about that), and raise you "site:.uk"
[http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=python&hl=en&sa=X&#...</a>

------
avar
It's unclear from this whether or not Python would have to change the name of
the programming language if they didn't get the trademark, or whether this UK
company would just have the right to call their products "Python" too.

Early in the article it says: "There is a company in the UK that is trying to
trademark the use of the term "Python" for all software, services, servers...
pretty much anything having to do with a computer.".

And later it says, where the Python foundation is soliciting comments: "your
view that another company using term Python to refer to services, software,
and servers would be confusing".

I for one hope the Python foundation _doesn't_ get an exclusive trademark for
all "software, services, servers" in the E.U. Outside of software "Python" is
a well-known generic name for an animal, I don't think the EU should be
protecting such generic names.

But on the other hand it would also suck if this U.K. company gained exclusive
use over the trademark.

~~~
SoftwareMaven
That's not the way trademarks work. Trademarks cover one or more industries,
so your snake is completely safe. In fact, if you wanted to make a car called
the Python or a chair called the Python or just about _anything_ else called
the Python, you would be welcome to it (assuming somebody else hadn't
trademarked that). Even in software, you could incorporate the word Python as
long as it didn't cause confusion (for instance, making the game "Snake: a
Young Python's Journey" would most likely be fine [note: IANAL]).

However, due to the "fight for it or lose it" nature, if this company was
given the trademark, they would have no choice but to threaten legal action
against the PSF and everybody who produces something with Python in the name:
a very large group of people, products and companies.

~~~
pvaldes
like this for example...

[http://www.amazon.com/Master-Lock-Adjustable-
Camouflage-8418...](http://www.amazon.com/Master-Lock-Adjustable-
Camouflage-8418KA-1/dp/B007E2IXQA)

Probably those companies with products with Python in its name will be
interested in this. You could contact them

~~~
pbhjpbhj
It's a different Nice class, it's not relevant.

------
carlosedp
EVE-Online, a big MMO uses Python for it's servers and clients and they even
contribute to Stackless Python source. They are in Iceland. Maybe you could
try contacting them.

------
DoubleCluster
I'm not worried, judges in Europe are usually quite reasonable. Ask the judge
for the python.co.uk while you're at it. I love Python, best of luck!

------
mseebach
First there's Google. They are heavy on Python and has several offices in the
EU. I think the original version of their crawler was written in Python.

Academia: Cambridge has a Python course. I think Python as a teaching language
has potential to go quite far back. Historical documents could be course
catalogues, slides, handouts or even exams.

Commercial training: Quick Googling brings up qa.com and learningtree.co.uk,
both are in the UK and have Python training and (obviously) a commercial
interest in the word retaining it's meaning. They might very well have old
marketing material or invoices for Python training lying around.

~~~
Blahah
A few of the Cambridge Python courses:

[http://www.ucs.cam.ac.uk/docs/course-notes/unix-
courses/Pyth...](http://www.ucs.cam.ac.uk/docs/course-notes/unix-
courses/PythonAB)

[http://www.ucs.cam.ac.uk/docs/course-notes/unix-
courses/Pyth...](http://www.ucs.cam.ac.uk/docs/course-notes/unix-
courses/PythonRE)

[http://www.ucs.cam.ac.uk/docs/course-notes/unix-
courses/Pyth...](http://www.ucs.cam.ac.uk/docs/course-notes/unix-
courses/PythonOS)

[http://www.ucs.cam.ac.uk/docs/course-notes/unix-
courses/Nume...](http://www.ucs.cam.ac.uk/docs/course-notes/unix-
courses/NumericalPython)

[http://www.ucs.cam.ac.uk/docs/course-notes/unix-
courses/pyth...](http://www.ucs.cam.ac.uk/docs/course-notes/unix-
courses/pythonfortran)

Since UCS at Cambridge have been teaching Python for a long time, you could
request a statement of support from them: escience-support@ucs.cam.ac.uk

------
gnotaras
Even if they finally manage to register the 'python' trademark, I guess their
project will be so severely boycotted that it won't stand a chance of
succeeding. I think they've just found a way to get advertisement for free and
they will finally give up with the trademark claim, but that's just a wild
guess.

What I'd like to point out is that in many countries there is the concept of
'unregistered trademark':

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unregistered_trademark>

Quoting from the Wikipedia page:

 _They may however benefit from protection due to other features of the law in
relation to trademarks, such as protection for unregistered marks in the
United Kingdom resulting from Passing off law._

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passing_off>

 _Passing off is a common law tort which can be used to enforce unregistered
trademark rights._

I am not a lawyer and I cannot tell if the above applies to the current
situation. I am just pointing it out just in case 'python' can be considered
as an unregistered trademark (held by the Python Foundation) in the UK and
thus get any benefits or protection from any local laws.

My 2 cents

------
CD1212
Since anyfoo suggested contacting Google, it may be worthwhile contacting GCHQ
[1] (they are the UK intelligence / code breaking agency). It is a very
possible that they use Python internally. Since they are public sector rather
than private sector it may not be of much help, but it is just an idea. Hope
it helps!

[1]: <http://www.gchq.gov.uk/>

~~~
DanBC
GCHQ / CESG probably aren't going to say anything that's not in their
published literature.

Maybe one of the recruitment leaflets talks about Python, but the one I saw
didn't mention it.

(<http://www.gchq-careers.co.uk/media/21423/gchq_technical.pdf>)

> Facing some of the most complex challenges in the industry, our work ranges
> from small teams with each individual working the whole engineering
> lifecycle, through to £multi-million programmes staffed by specialist
> professionals cutting across industry, government and national boundaries.
> From Software Developers (primarily Java, JEE, C and C++), Database
> Developers (Oracle), Software Designers and Architects (with OO, UML) to
> Configuration Managers, Build and Integration Managers and more, the roles
> here are many and varied.

------
professorTuring
I have been developing in python in Spain (EU) since long ago and I can't see
how a product called "Python", as in "I will buy the latest Python server" or
"We have connected the radius to the Python Authentication Web Service" is
going to confuse anyone.

I can see how this issue bothers the PSF, but I don't think PSF can claim
"python" name for every technical-related topic.

I think a much better approach would be talking to them and agree a link on
each other web, ie:

Python.org says: "Were you looking python awesome servers? Click here" And
Python.co.uk will say: "Were you looking for awesome python software
development resources? Click here"

Python (PSF) and Python (servers and web services) only have in common that
are "technical related" but they are not competing with each other and I can't
see a clear missunderstanding on this topic.

But, this is my POV, and I might be wrong =)

~~~
MartinMcGirk
I happen to think that you are wrong.

As someone who only started teaching himself the python language last week
(but who has seen it around the web for a lot longer) I would naturally assume
that "Python server" was some variation of the python language meant for web
tasks.

In the context of IT, the word "Python" for me refers unambiguously to the
programming language, and any other uses of this word in the context of IT
would be very confusing.

I could not for instance create a programming language called "Google" and
expect to get away with it...

~~~
professorTuring
I don't agree you. "Python server" won't never be a development kit name,
maybe Python Server Development Kit (PSDK, which I'm about to register :P
[just kidding]).

Maybe two sysadmin talking each other will say "I'm going to start the python
server" and if they have a Python Machine and a piece of python software who
accomplish a task it will be a bit confusing. But I don't think that an user
searching for information about python software development is going to get
confused about this.

I think this is quite close to the "iPhone" dispute in Brazil. Do you think
that somebody searching for an Apple iPhone in Brazil is going to get confused
with a Gradiente Eletronica SA gadget?

The same thing is happening here.

\-- About your "google" suggestion, this is completely different. Google is
not a common noun, it is "invented" and it has a rightful trademark. But I
guess you can create a programming language called apple. Apple will try to
dispute it, but you will certainly keep the apple name after the resolution.

Again, this is my POV =)

------
karloskar
As a Saas provider within the recruitment business we have plenty of examples
of where Python is used to categorize candidates proficient in Python. There
is not a bit of ambiguity there.

------
vespakoen
There is a button on their facebook page
(<http://www.facebook.com/PythonCloud>) called "Suggest a change" (freely
translated that from what I actually see in dutch, so it might be different),
It's next to the little info link below their "avatar".

What if we all suggest a unique name and they can pick a new one from
something awesome one of us has suggested?

------
DanBC
Concentrating on the other company: A Google search for [python hosting]
doesn't even return them on the first page of hits; it returns a bunch of
other companies offering hosting for python (the language) stuff or questions
about hosting python (the language) based stuff.

You offered them the limited "python cloud hosting" and they refused?
Baffling. Good Luck.

~~~
7952
Its probably a way of getting higher rank on "python cloud servers". Cloud
servers is actually claimed as trademark by rackspace:)

------
pbhjpbhj
There's at least a 1995 European patent application and ~500 others [listed on
Google patents for Europe] up to 2009 mentioning python programming language.

In 2009 there's EP2109040A2 which demonstrates a European usage of python by a
skilled practitioner in the art specifically to designate the language
stewarded by PSF .

~~~
hakre
The UK company didn't miss to exactly take the same international classes
(009, 042) the PSF had choosen back in 2004 when they registered the PYTHON
mark with the US copyright office. So that's more distinct than what others
do, even if some of those two classes also collide with other trademark
registrations for PYTHON.

------
erre
It may be interesting to check archive.org for old job openings. For instance,
this one at RIPE NCC, in Amsterdam, from 2006:

[http://web.archive.org/web/20070101144833/http://www.ripe.ne...](http://web.archive.org/web/20070101144833/http://www.ripe.net/employment/posts/06_1221_001.html)

------
anigbrowl
This is a prime example of why you have to vigorously police and defend a
trade mark in order to reap the benefits from it. People complain when a large
company does it to a small one, but if they don't they can easily find
themselves in a situation like this.

~~~
craftman
It is the sad truth of the current trademark/patent system.

I am currently creating my own product, and the very first thing I made was to
create a new name, and claim the mark. It cost me some money, but not that
much compared to the risk of being in trouble with trolls.

The sad things is that by doing this, I am probably feeding the complexity of
the system myself.

------
meaty
They don't have a company registered in the UK under Python. Register a
company called Python Language Limited and shorten it to Python in
correspondence.

You can trade under that name, even if it's a trademark.

The same as you can call yourself Fairy Limited and not sell washing up
liquid.

------
vermontdevil
Seeing that Guido Van Rossum is Dutch and invented the language in
Netherlands, has he said anything about this?

Can't the university where Python was invented be contacted to help as well
with any relevant information or documentation?

------
leke
In the spirit of programming languages, they should rename Python to P.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel

      >>> "C".encode("rot13")
      'P'

------
kriro
How could anyone (that seems to be selling cloud servers) think this is a good
business strategy. I really don't get how some people think about the software
industry as a whole I suppose.

------
sycren
Perhaps you should bring up the Raspberry Pi as Python is its main language
and it is being used in schools all over the UK and the government is helping
to support the project.

------
rebelnz
Can we help from outside the EU? Would it carry more weight to show that the
entire worldwide development community recognises Python as referring to
Python-the-language.

------
itrave
A well known Creative Commons spanish book published in 2008:
<http://mundogeek.net/tutorial-python/>

------
hartator
Oo, some companies are definitive assholes. I am in the US but I run a company
in france that does software development, will try to mail you a letter.

------
spajus
Those f __ing trolls are getting more insolent day by day. Hopefully they will
get all the negative publicity to ruin their company after this.

------
Yaggo
What an assholes. They are selling a service taking advantage of free software
while simultaneous trying to steal from the whole community.

------
Aardwolf
Does a domain name registration really have any correlation with the concept
of trademarks?

How did trademarks work before the Internet was there then?

------
oellegaard
When I saw the design of that site, I thought it was a scam :-( Anyway, I'm a
EU citizen, so I'll definitely contact them.

~~~
jacquesm
It is a scam. If they claim they are involved with software and computers they
must know of python. Stuff like this does not happen by accident.

------
arianvanp
You should get in touch with the raspberry pi foundation. They're respected in
the UK and they promote the use of python

------
inovica
Just checked on this today and python.co.uk is now pointing to python.org. Has
this been resolved?

------
Raz0rblade
Python is from 1980 first public release 1998 So to a judge ask them the
meaning of prior art. One cannt copyright what allready exists in the public
domain, even if it was not copyrighted. You only need to proof you where
earlier.

Reminds me of apple-samsung and phone shapes, and then someone found an old
startrek movie allready showing such devices.

~~~
pilgrim689
The judge would tell you that "prior art" is irrelevant here. This isn't about
patents or copyrights. They are filing for a trademark...

~~~
pbhjpbhj
They've got the terminology wrong but _prior_use_ of the mark "python" in
relation to software is indeed relevant.

------
Niten
As a non-EU citizen (USA), is there anything that I can do to help?

------
martinced
What about people would start using original and easy to Google names for
languages and APIs / frameworks / etc.? (I know Python predates Google but
still).

No more three-letters acronyms: PHP, APL, RPG, PL/I (ok, there a slash in
addition to the three-letters but still).

No more names that refer to someone who existed (either first name or last
name or surname) or a common word: Pascal, Logo, Java, Go, Racket, Haskell...
Pffft!

Geez. You have to wonder how the people smart enough to write a language
gaining sufficient traction can be so stupid at naming the language.

Here, let's look at a car: oh, "Muffler". Now that's a great name for a
programming language. Wait. "Horn" is good too. Common, let's name it "Wheel".
Wait, no: "Steering". I'm so smart.

Or let's go to the zoo and pick an animal?

Or... You know what, use Google and try to find a name which isn't commonly
used and which hence hasn't much chance of being widely used.

And then it becomes _your_ brand and trademark and intellectual property and
what-not-I-am-not-lawyer-but-you-can-nitpick.

~~~
alanctgardner2
I get what you mean, but making names up is torture in most communication
channels. The best example I can think of is Hadoop. Even though it's mostly
spelled like it sounds, I've never seen anyone remember it right off the bat.
Python, as an english word, sticks in your mind with the correct spelling.
Unless you see if spelled out, Hadoop is kind of a fuzzy, nonsense word.

I don't have any studies to cite, but that's my experience with technical and
nontechnical people. Java is a easy to remember and usually not misheard,
Hadoop is hard to remember initially. Don't even get me started on Sqoop.

------
amoxibos
Python - too big to fail...

------
amoxibos
If they mess with Python, anonymous should rape them.

~~~
amoxibos
Since their business all revolves around data, Anons shouldn't have too much
trouble destructing their business to pieces.

~~~
keithpeter
I think we should use _legal_ remedies here. Mob rule is not an appropriate
way of resolving this, and I suspect that once the company realises how
unpopular (radioactive?) this will be in PR terms they will reconsider. Also,
EU trademark courts are sensibleish

------
cube-drone
you can't

why would

I don't

WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD TRY TO TAKE 'PYTHON' FROM PYTHON?

I want to destroy them with internet rage.

~~~
timClicks
HN is not reddit. If it helps though, intellectual property disputes are
resolved on the facts of specific cases, rather than headlines. Even a loss
for the PSF May not be that bad, as there is likely to be a ruling that both
marks could coexist, given Python's long heritage and no evidence on consumer
confusion.

------
siscia
These kind of problems are so stupid that they should not even exist... Please
start using your brain and don't try to trick other in so low issues...

PS: We could send 1000 of email to that company just asking to stop the
cause...

We could make a PYTHON script to send this email ten times a day...

