
Atheists and Agnostics Also Frequently Believe in the Supernatural, Study Shows - rendall
http://www.openculture.com/2019/06/atheists-agnostics-also-frequently-believe-in-the-supernatural-a-new-study-shows.html
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CM30
Not too surprising. Nothing necessarily says 'disbelieves in God/gods' means
'is a rationalist/sceptic'.

And nowadays, it seems like a growing number of people are simply not
believing in the narratives provided by organised religions and churches,
while still maintaining beliefs about other supernatural concepts like
reincarnation, ghosts, an afterlife, etc.

In some sense, it feels like a bit of a pagan resurgence in some parts, with
more people being open to the supernatural while still not believing in
religion in the traditional sense.

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ThinkingGuy
You also have to take cultural and linguistic differences into account. In my
experience, Japanese people tend use terms like "atheist" and "non-religious"
less in the sense of a personal system of belief, and more in the sense of
"not being a member of a formal, established religious institution."

I've had variations of the following conversation with several Japanese
people:

    
    
      Q: Are you religious?
      A: No I don't have any religion.
      Q: Oh, I see. By the way, what did you do on New Year's Day this year?
      A: I went to the neighborhood shrine to pray, like I always do!

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dkarl
Even in among native English speakers the usage is not consistent. I know
people who believe in a spirit world where their dead family members hear
their prayers, and they do not describe themselves as religious, because they
associate religion with a shared dogma and belief in one or more superhuman
deities. I guess most people don't describe themselves "religious" unless
there is some organized religion that they are able to identify as the source
of their beliefs.

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satellitec4t
Then there are people who say, "I'm not religious -- I have a relationship
with God"

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SketchySeaBeast
I wonder, given the rising popularity of atheism, how many of the people
described in the study fall under the unthinking atheist, in the same way
someone raised by Christians or in Christian peer-groups can easily become
Christian without conscience thought? It stands to reason that as it gains in
popularity, atheism would appear more like the general population. I feel like
the ‘convinced, dogmatic atheists’ is a group that's become the minority.

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rootusrootus
"Dogmatic atheist"? I would laugh, but a Google search suggests that people do
believe such a thing exists. Are they just talking about outspoken atheists
who are openly critical of religion?

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Erik816
There is certainly a brand of atheist who is really only the flipside of a
fundamentalist. One reads scripture literally in order to find it infallible,
the other reads scripture literally in order to find it impossible.

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rootusrootus
I don't really like that definition too much, it feels a little off. It feels
almost like the tolerance/intolerance debate, in a way.

But I get it. I choose not to call myself an atheist, since it seems to have
connotations beyond the simple definition. If asked for a label, I call myself
ignostic. It has the upside of being easily mistaken for agnostic, therefore
it sails under the radar when the topic of religion comes up. So I can be
accurate without getting into what amounts to a political debate.

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amanzi
I find the blog posts discussing the report more interesting than the report
itself. Atheists/agnostics don't believe in gods (i.e. the ones you pray to
that control the world and universe), but that doesn't mean they dismiss
outright any possible supernatural belief. There are some outspoken atheists
that will certainly take this position, but that's not the definition of an
atheist.

Personally, I'm a non-believer (along with almost half of my country) but I
still like the ideas behind some form of an afterlife or reincarnation. It's
soothing (and harmless) to think that a deceased loved one's spirit may live
on in some other form.

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zachguo
The original paper is better
[https://research.kent.ac.uk/understandingunbelief/wp-
content...](https://research.kent.ac.uk/understandingunbelief/wp-
content/uploads/sites/45/2019/05/UUReportRome.pdf)

Looking at the appendix, their sampling methodology has problems. The sample
size for China is smaller than that of Japan, and for western countries
60%-75% of survey takers are male.

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mistermann
I'm not sure if this qualifies as the supernatural (it exceeds natural
capabilities, imho), but while lots of people no longer have a fundamentalist
belief in religion, it seems a fair number of people have in some sense
replaced that with a somewhat fundamentalist belief in the capabilities and
comprehensiveness of knowledge (versus theories) of science, free markets,
human nature, and other things like that. And on a personal basis, a possibly
overly confident view of the correctness of their beliefs about the beliefs
(and underlying motivations) of other people.

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sprucely
I'm not sure either, but I kind of agree. I think it's the whole us vs them
thing. Most people like to feel like they're on the right (correct, superior)
side of whatever issue they decide divides them from the others.

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IXxXI
Years ago they redefined the atheist demographic to contain those believing in
supernatural phenomena or a higher power, in order to push the false narrative
which says the number of atheists is increasing worldwide. Those who believe
in the supernatural, deities or a higher power are falsely considered
"atheist" to exaggerate the size of their demographic.

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karmakaze
An interesting case is Buddhism which many would classify as a religion. It's
main premise is that the universe works like a clock that runs on karma which
isn't so much a judgment but rather a plain mechanism. There are gods but they
basically have no interactions with life as we know it. So believes in the
existence of gods that have no bearing, meaning no faith is placed in their
doings.

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lostmsu
Maybe we should call ourselves "occams" to be more specific.

