

High costs keeping software startups from filing patents - coderdude
http://www.readwriteweb.com/start/2010/07/high-costs-keeping-software-st.php

======
tirrellp
For what its worth, my lawyer charges $2000, $5000 for a full, and $3000 to
convert a provisional to a full. Not the kind of money I would find in my
couch cushions, but not 30k either.

He's a good guy. I worked with him when he was at Greenberg Traurig and I was
at Yahoo.

He is now captain of his own ship without biglaw overhead.

For a startup that can afford it, patents and IP in general can be a good
investment.

------
kljensen
The $20-30k is likely an average, spread over many years, and also skewed
towards particularly expensive patents. As others note, provisionals and the
early costs of filing can be relatively inexpensive.

Clearly, in the software space patents are nice but not needed. However, they
are the coin of the realm for biotech, clean tech, materials, and many other
fields. There's some other papers by faculty at Berkeley (Ted Sichelman)
showing that, in many fields, patents are one of the more prominent drivers of
series A valuations.

------
tomjen3
Great - now we just need to raise the price so _nobody_ can afford to file a
patent (on software at least).

How does a trillion dollars sound?

------
ww520
Think of how much money we would save if we abolish the whole patent system,
at least the software patent part.

------
dctoedt
The folklore is that just being able to say "patent pending" is worth
something to a startup. (I'm not aware of any empirical testing or validation
of that view.)

------
ben410
Is there a list of good, reasonably priced patent lawyers who specialize in
software/web patent applications anywhere on the web?

------
tptacek
Forget about the up-front cost of filing a patent, and consider the cost of
enforcing one. Your patent isn't going to issue for _five to seven years_
after you file it. You'll already have succeeded or failed by then. And once
it issues, then what? Figure years and years of costly litigation to enforce
your patent. Once.

Patents are not a meaningful part of the arsenal for small tech startups.
Watch out. Unscrupulous IP lawyers will try to convince you otherwise.

~~~
rudyfink
I think about patents as options on lawsuits. A 20-50k patent gives you the
option of a ~1-5 million dollar lawsuit(s).

As you noted there are also concerns about time. It takes years to get the
option and then years to exercise it.

------
omouse
This is really really good news :D

 _Are patents old hat to software startups?_

Uh, they were always old hat. No one has ever liked them except for larger
companies that can use them to mess up the competition.

~~~
dirkstoop
This isn't good news at all. Nothing about it implies that when large
incumbents imitate (or simply notice) something invented at a startup they
won't patent it.

This is a disadvantage for startups, because big companies _will_ play this
game. And it's a game backed by IP law so you can decide not to file, but you
can't opt out.

------
waivej
$30,000? Isn't the filing fee around a few hundred dollars . I guess they have
some big lawyer fees.

[http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/qs/ope/fee2009september1...](http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/qs/ope/fee2009september15.htm#patapp)

~~~
kujhygtfghj
I have spent an hour on the phone almost everyday for a few weeks talking to
our patent lawyer, then there are all the extra hours of searches they bill me
for.

This is for a complex piece of opto-electronics, explaining to the lawyer (who
has a physics degree) exactly why this is different to the dozens of similar
patents is expensive - but a different bit of wording now can be important
when I'm being sued by IBM or Sony in a few years.

~~~
dctoedt
Your lawyer might want to look at a training "video" I put together. It's a
PDF of a series of PowerPoint slides with few words and lots of pictures. It's
designed to be skimmed rapidly by a reader, and/or to accompany a classroom-
type discussion.

The PDF explains how an inventor and lawyer can use something like extreme
programming (XP) techniques to complete most of the work of drafting and
reviewing a patent application in one sitting.

[http://www.ontechnologylaw.com/docs/ToedtOneAndDoneInventorI...](http://www.ontechnologylaw.com/docs/ToedtOneAndDoneInventorInterviewApproach2007-06-22.pdf)

