
How the Government Ruined US Healthcare – And What Can Be Done - clarkmoody
https://mises.org/blog/how-government-ruined-us-healthcare-%E2%80%94-and-what-can-be-done
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hiddencost
Fair warning, this is a think tank named after
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_von_Mises](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_von_Mises)
who is basically the founder of Austrian economics, which has by and large
become a vehicle for ultra-conservative folks to push through anti-worker
policies.

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bkohlmann
It's interesting that you use the term "fair warning," which may dissuade
someone from reading the article and coming to their own conclusions. As
someone who values hearing the perspectives of all sides, I find it useful to
hear pro-market arguments in something like health care. It helps me challenge
my assumptions, especially since health care does seem to be increasingly
costly and complex...as the amount of government oversight increases every
year.

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savanaly
I don't interpret "fair warning" as meaning "this person is a wrongthinker,
stay away!" I interpret it as "you may find this article interesting, but be
aware that its source is outside the mainstream and maybe even outside the
Overton window."

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bkohlmann
I guess we just have a difference in interpretations of the term. My recent
(admittedly amateur) interest in behavioral economics and persuasion leads me
to believe that even sophisticated people are susceptible to the effects of
framing. If you prime someone to read something with a bias towards
skepticism, they will either avoid it due to confirmation bias, or potentially
read it differently than they would have without the prime. That may not even
be your intent, but in reality it happens. And as for "outside the mainstream"
\- whose mainstream or Overton window? My "mainstream" actually takes Mises
very seriously. It sounds like yours does not. I suppose under a broad
definition, a warning could be warranted for nearly every article depending on
the audience.

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maxerickson
I made it to the 6th paragraph before finding something pretty misleading:

 _It wasn’t until 1972 that President Richard Nixon restricted the supply of
hospitals by requiring institutions to provide a certificate-of-need._

Federal certificate of need laws were repealed in the 1980s, after it was
decided that they didn't lower costs.

It's pretty misleading to mention that they were put in place and then not
mention that they were repealed.

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dustinmoorenet
Not Everything can be left to the market to figure out. When government
colludes with medical corporations to maximize profits we get what we have
here. It isn't governments or corporations that are the problem. When you can
profit from the sick, morals have to be thrown out the window.

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theabacus
How can we expect people to be moral when the prevailing philosophy is
existential, deconstructionist and postmodern which has no absolute ethic and
even eschews ethics from its philosophy? What even is morality in such a
society?

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vedranm
Have you read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand? If yes, you might remember this
moment of Hank Rearden's enlightenment: "He lay still, alone in the silence of
his office. He knew that the meaning of his mills had ceased to exist, and the
fullness of the knowledge left no room for the pain of regretting an illusion.
He had seen, in a final image, the soul and essence of his enemies: the
mindless face of the thug with the club. It was not the face itself that made
him draw back in horror, but the professors, the philosophers, the moralists,
the mystics who had released that face upon the world."

Ayn Rand firmly believed that philosophy shapes human action. I agree with
that and frequently quote her on this one: "The present state of the world is
not the proof of philosophy’s impotence, but the proof of philosophy’s power.
It is philosophy that has brought men to this state – it is only philosophy
that can lead them out."

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samysaadi
How does this work when a patient needs surgery? They pay out of pocket? Or do
they have insurance for that, alongside their primary care fees?

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jlewis7272
I feel this is a problem the government created so the government could come
up with never ending "solutions".

The issue needs to be defined better. The point of health insurance is to
prevent me from going bankrupt due to a catastrophic illness.

Instead of socialized health care we needed insurance reform and for the
collusion between health providers and health insurers to end.

No other industry allows this sort of collusion to occur. My doctor and my
insurance company should not be talking to each other.

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alphabettsy
In the case of some the healthcare provider and insurer are basically the
same. CVS Caremark for example.

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TYPE_FASTER
"On average, members of these direct primary care clinics pay as little as $60
per month, with couples paying about $150."

Sounds great. Does that include cardiac or oncology specialists? What do you
do after your primary care clinician sees you, and says "I can't help you, but
I know somebody who can"?

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ancap
I'm always amazed at the quality and cheapness of the options provided from
some third world countries' private medical care. It's amazing what can be
accomplished when patients and doctors cooperate without the meddling of a
third party. Sadly such arrangements are not accessible to all.

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mkaziz
Yeah but you also have situations there like my old man, who got admitted for
a heart attack and the hospital refused to operate without ~ his annual income
(and we're middle class there) in cash being deposited first.

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alphabettsy
This article only really addresses primary care, what about major surgery,
emergency care, disease management? That's where the majority of the cost is
and how can a person be expected to be able to pay for an operation that costs
double or triple their yearly income? As soon as you involve some kind of
public assistance for those who can't afford care, you invite regulations and
we're back to where we started.

Sure starting completely over and removing all regulations sounds nice, but
big money in health will always make sure they get policies they like unless
we're going to also address imbalanced political influence.

