
Appeals Court Caves to TSA Over Nude Body Scanners - vectorbunny
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/09/appeals-court-caves/
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gsibble
It's sad to see the executive branch forcing the judiciary into an awkward
position.

What exactly is the judge going to do? Fine DHS/TSA? Where will that money go?
Right back into the treasury where it came from.

Ugh. TSA makes me sick.

~~~
roc
> _"What exactly is the judge going to do?"_

Hold those in charge personally responsible. Find them in contempt. Lock them
up. Go as far up the executive chain as necessary. Have the civilian police
deactivate/seize any scanners until the TSA falls into compliance.

The TSA has definitely forced an awkward situation. But it's not one without
recourse. The government is always accountable to the people and must obey the
law.

If the country paid anything more than lip service to the rule of law and
personal liberty, these actions would have already been taken or at least
credibly threatened to force this issue along.

~~~
rayiner
Don't be dramatic. The US government is very accountable as far as governments
go. The judge hasn't held anyone in contempt yet because foot-dragging isn't
really an egregious disrespect to the court in a procedural battle like this
one. What the judge is ordering the agency to do is have a public notice &
comment on regulations governing the use of these scanners. Writing up proper
notice takes a lot of time because any defects in the notice set up a later
legal challenge. They're late on this, but agencies always are.

~~~
verelo
> "Don't be dramatic. The US government is very accountable as far as
> governments go."

Its fairly responsible, despite a few large events, however this is one issue
that the US is not grasping the magnitude of.

The TSA is not just impacting your own citizens, think about foreigners
visiting, what a great first impression! I've stopped flying through SFO or
LAX whenever i visit Sydney or Toronto. I now go through Vancouver every time.
It costs me more, but i'm tired of US immigration / TSA shenanigans.

~~~
rayiner
I agree, TSA is a very egregious agency that seems to have been let loose like
a bull in a china store. But it's unusually bad as far as federal agencies go.

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scythe
I thought the TSA's argument as described at the end of the article was
patently absurd ("ever-evolving threats"). Did they actually get away with
saying that? If there is any decency in the world, that wouldn't stand with
SCOTUS.

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alttag
One of the interesting (to me) items in the article is that it framed the use
of body scanners as clearly an agency (administrative) decision, rather than a
legal (that is, codified) one.

For rule-making authority to have the force of law, the 90-day comment period
is mandated ... does that mean the decision to apply these scanners isn't
enforceable (and thus, litigable)? TSA has seemingly worked around this, as
there is no aggrieved party (and thus, no standing), due to their opt-out
provisions. That seems doubly wrong, and disrespectful of the legal process.

~~~
ims
Administrative decisions can often be made without corresponding rulemaking
actions. Even when a rule is made the 90 day comment period (normally 60 days
after the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking and 30 after the Final Rule) is more
of a guideline. You could call it strongly encouraged by several Executive
Orders, most recently E.O. 13563.

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cpeterso
I always opt-out of the scanners when I fly, but my estimate is that less than
0.5% of other people opt-out. 1 in 200! Most people are too impatient or
uninformed to care about privacy or potential health risks.

~~~
enraged_camel
Do we actually have any conclusive evidence that these scanners are harmful? I
thought all the "potential health risks" were just speculative.

~~~
josephlord
Yes but the absence of health risks is pretty speculative too and based on the
assumption that the particular machine you are stepping into is functioning as
designed.

Do you feel lucky?

~~~
jlgreco
I think all programmers should know that even medical grade equipment can go
_terribly_ wrong _(Therac-25 anyone?)_. The fact that this stuff _isn't_
medical grade, _isn't_ being operated by people who understand the risks, and
_isn't_ allowed to be inspected makes _me_ feel very unlucky.

~~~
CamperBob2
_isn't being operated by people who understand the risks_

This is the key point as far as I'm concerned. In what other profession am I
allowed to use X-ray machines on the general public without any training
whatsoever?

~~~
DrStalker
Mad scientist?

~~~
cpeterso
I don't think that counts; they would have had to have gone to school to study
mad science.

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mtgx
US should have a different agency that takes comments and complaints about the
TSA and then sends a periodical report to Congress about it. From my
understanding, right now the complaints are sent to TSA themselves? That's
pretty much pointless then.

~~~
nathanb
Are you sure that's accountable and transparent enough? Perhaps we should
establish a third agency to handle complaints regarding the second agency and
ensure that everything is aboveboard.

~~~
cpeterso
We could have one agency to plan the TSA's mission, a second to carry out the
plan, and a third to review complaints.

~~~
skermes
You joke, but <http://www.improbable.com/ig/winners/#ig2012>

    
    
      LITERATURE PRIZE: The US Government General Accountability Office, for
      issuing a report about reports about reports that recommends the preparation
      of a report about the report about reports about reports.
    

Never try to out-do the government at bureaucratic recursion.

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jksmith
If you have to raise your hands over your head like you're some kind of perp,
at least throw two bird fingers while they're taking the xray. You want them
to see that you don't have any explosive devices on your middle fingers.

