
Elementary OS 5.1 Hera - pcr910303
https://blog.elementary.io/introducing-elementary-os-5-1-hera/
======
jonny383
Serious question time. What benefit will I get from running something like
Elementary over Ubuntu? Forgive my ignorance, but honestly the whole OS looks
like it's just a fork of Ubuntu with a couple of swapped in applications, and
a GTK3 theme on top of GNOME trying to make it look like a ten year old
version of macOS.

I hate to be so negative, but the "new greeter" they are showing looks like
something from Windows 98, and worst of all, functionally no better than
Ubuntu. What purpose doe s this actually serve if it's neither aesthetics nor
functionality?

I would feel a lot safer recommending either Ubuntu or Linux Mint...

~~~
als0
I do wonder from time to time why Elementary can’t be an installable package
rather than an OS...

~~~
nkkollaw
It is:

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:elementary-os/stable && sudo apt install
elementary-desktop

Then, select elementary when you log in.

~~~
haspok
This did not work to me - I just got kicked back to the login screen. It
changed my background picture though :)

Also tried running eOS in VirtualBox - after installing and reboot all I get
is a black screen. I can get the live version running though, so not great,
not terrible!

------
_bxg1
Every workstation in my office runs Elementary. Around half of our employees
came to the company with little or no prior technical experience, and it's
worked out pretty well.

~~~
leppr
Would be interesting to know what kind of work is done on these machines.

~~~
flatiron
My guess is “typing stuff into a website using chrome” which I guess
elementary isn’t a terrible choice.

~~~
anderber
I do development on my elementary OS machine.

~~~
rehemiau
Does elementary still return their release codename instead of the base ubuntu
release for `lsb_release -cs` in shell?

~~~
cassidyjames
Yes, because elementary OS is not Ubuntu. In the past, we carried newer
versions of GTK or other core libraries, so pretending to be Ubuntu would
actually do more harm than good.

However, we have added an `--upstream` or `-u` flag to lsb_release like other
Linux-based OSes to point to an upstream release if the downstream release is
not supported. I believe this has been adopted for installers of tools like
Ruby and Node.

~~~
rehemiau
Makes sense, I hope all installer tools will start using it

------
fouc
So Elementary OS is essentially what Redhat Linux used to advertise itself as,
but never quite was? A comprehensive, integrated desktop OS built on
GNU/Linux?

~~~
mushufasa
pop! shares dna with elementary (same people worked on both) and probably is
closer to that definition. E.g. backed by a company with actual customer
support. Different aesthetics though.

~~~
alexis_fr
It’s worth developing: Pop! is the fork of Elementary by System76, which is
known for high-quality open-source laptops/desktops. I have never tried either
so I can’t assess the quality. From the screenshots I have seen, it remains
Linux, so not as smooth as macOS.

~~~
iad
When you say fork are you talking about the desktop environments or the whole
distros?

Pop's desktop environment looks like a barely customized Gnome3 session to me.
I'm not sure I would even call it a fork. Looks more like just a theme.

Pantheon (Elementary) is more of a fork of Gnome3, reusing some low level
parts but presenting a much different experience to the user.

~~~
bwat49
yeah pop is just using the gnome desktop (with custom theming, a few
extensions, and an improved set of default keyboard shortcuts.

They have collaborated with elementary in a few areas though. Instead of gnome
software, they have Pop Shop, which I believe is a fork of the elementary app
center.

They also use their own installer, which I believe was a collaboration with
elementary os.

------
1Y3
I love the idea of having a Linux distro that emulates macOS, but I see no
point in copying only the vague look, when it still differs in basic
functionality, like using different keyboard shortcuts. I don’t understand why
(based on semi-thorough googling in the past) it is not possible to change all
shortcuts to be like macOS (cmd-c instead of ctrl-c etc.)

~~~
Wowfunhappy
As much as elementary clearly takes inspiration from macOS, the developers
have been quite clear that they're not trying to make a mac clone.

You can agree or disagree with that mission, but it is what it is.

~~~
scythe
One of the best things about macOS is the special character inputs, which is
one place I think Apple has outshone their competitors for a while. Even if
Elementary doesn’t introduce the same keybindings it would be nice to have
some set up automatically without having to fiddle with the compose key
settings. It’s a very common UX issue imho and also an area where you can
easily “beat Windows”

~~~
lobo_tuerto
Special characters through the keyboard like these?

ł€æßðđŧŋ«»¢“”←ħn↓ĸ→ø

Those are input from just pressing ALT(right) + <SOME LETTER KEY>

The € is ALTgr + e. ¢ is ALTgr + SHIFT + e.

~~~
nkrisc
I don't know if it's what the OP meant, but on macOS you can hold a letter
key, and it will pop up a little dialog with a bunch of similar characters
(hold 'n' and chose from 'n' with various diacritical marks), and you can just
press the corresponding number key to choose it. I'ts not as fast as a
dedicated key shortcut if you're constantly using the same character, but it's
far easier if you're only occasionally using various characters and don't want
to remember different shortcuts.

~~~
SyneRyder
On macOS you can also type things like Opt-U to get an umlaut, followed by
typing the letter you want underneath it (eg for ü, ë, ä, ö). ß is Opt-S, I
think é is Opt-E E, etc. I prefer that to the AltGr+key shortcuts, which I
find harder to remember. I don't use the Mac as my primary OS anymore, but
that's one of the things I miss the most.

~~~
lobo_tuerto
On Linux there are dedicated combination keys to put accents on characters
like: ä, á, é, ë, etc.

This is how it has always worked (I use a Latin-American keyboard layout). And
I think it's the best of both worlds.

If you wanted and your font supports it you could have: ṕẃéŕý (accent key +
character key).

All above without touching the AltGr key.

------
sparkling
I've been using Elementary as my main OS for ~4 years now. No complaints.
Everything runs smooth and nice.

However, since they build on the latest Ubuntu LTS release the Kernel is
slighlty outdated and may not support the latest hardware. This can be fixed
easily using a little tool called "ukuu" that will install a newer kernel for
you [https://github.com/teejee2008/ukuu](https://github.com/teejee2008/ukuu)

~~~
ripdog
What a spectacular hack! Instead of going around your package manager in such
a spectacular fashion, why not just switch to a distro which provides an up-
to-date kernel along with associated packages. For example, how does this
program handle proprietary Nvidia drivers?

~~~
sparkling
It's not a "hack". This tool uses the official Kernel packages from the
corresponding Ubuntu LTS repository.

------
sandGorgon
Elementary OS can be installed on top of Fedora. This way you can try it out
and go back to vanilla Gnome if you so prefer. While still leveraging the
Fedora ecosystem.

[https://computingforgeeks.com/install-pantheon-desktop-
envir...](https://computingforgeeks.com/install-pantheon-desktop-environment-
on-fedora/)

~~~
usrme
Thank you so much for this! I really like the look and feel of Elementary from
trying it a couple of years ago, but wouldn't want to leave Fedora now to go
back to it just for the feel.

------
haspok
How does eOS cope with multiple displays? This is something both Gnome/Unity
and KDE suck at.

KDE just gets total confused when I connect or disconnect a new display,
windows jump all over the place, sometimes they move out of the visible screen
area if I switch between hiDPI and non-hiDPI displays, or even just disconnect
and then reconnect a UHD monitor. I've seen some reports pointing fingers at
Qt as the main culprit, tbh I don't care, it doesn't work for the end user.

The latest Ubuntu on Gnome at least doesn't get confused, but it does not
recognize my monitor sometimes (I have to turn it off then on again, for
example when waking up from suspend), and switching between displays takes
about 20-30 seconds (I have my laptop screen disabled if a monitor is
connected). But it doesn't remember my open windows, nor the past position of
my terminal, which is set to auto-exec on login. This is something that works
much better in KDE.

~~~
geolgau
Wait a minute! I use KDE Plasma for at least 2 years constantly and it knows
my monitors. I use one at work and one at home and when I plug them it
automatically changes resolution and keeps the wallpaper I set for each. Also,
got a lot of colleagues switch to Plasma from Gnome for exactly this reason!

~~~
haspok
Does it keep your windows in place? Resize/move them properly when you switch
to a smaller resolution screen then resize/move them back again when you go
back to UHD?

I found the situation is worse if I extend my monitor's screen onto the
laptop, because when I unplug the monitor and plug it back again, all hell
breaks loose.

(This with the latest KDE that Ubuntu 19.10 has)

------
bketelsen
I installed this on my XPS 13 this morning, and it's really nice. It has a lot
of overall polish that most DE's are missing, it looks and feels cohesive. It
installed without any issues, and I had no problem with my Ubuntu-leaning
dotfiles. I will probably keep this for the near future, it's very pleasant.

~~~
appleiigs
I find "very pleasant" to be the best description of Elementary I can think.
Every other distro I've used have these little annoyances which put I up with,
but the folks at Elementary seem to iron them out. For example, weird font and
menu issues in KDE, space hogging title bars and weird workflow in Pop,
occasional screen flickering in Mint.

------
joshklein
Is global menu possible on Elementary yet? Searches only turn up old links for
the now-dead unity style, but nothing based on libdbusmenu.

Still seems to me that Plasma with libdbusmenu-qt5 is the closest interface
paradigm to MacOS for people trying to swap (not that there aren’t other
problems), but glib and gtk versions exist so someone out there must be
working on it?

~~~
joshklein
Replying to myself with more info:

This is proving exceptionally hard to search the web for, so apologies if this
is out of date, but it seems the answer was “no, and it never will be, so stop
asking” as of 2018:
[https://twitter.com/danielfore/status/991836014070022144](https://twitter.com/danielfore/status/991836014070022144)

Was this from before Elementary was positioning as the MacOS replacement? I
can’t be the only one who thinks the global menu is one of the MacOS
interface’s killer features.

I understand why it’s been hard under the X paradigm, but those crazy dbus
people are pushing entire application interfaces through IPC now.

~~~
kabacha
Wow, that guy seems to be completely out of touch with desktop UI and UX. His
main source of arguments is that iOS and Android doesn't do X, so Elementary
shouldn't either - a what now? Is he really comparing a touchbased small
screen device OS that is primarily used for casual applications to
keyboard/mouse desktop that is often used in a complex professional
environments?

That's one way to kill any credibility you had I guess.

~~~
joshklein
I agree on the substance of your comment re: interfaces, but let’s not put too
much stock in a random tweet. He might not mean any of that.

In any case, this release of Elementary isn’t any more paired down than the
latest GNOME shell.

They seem to have a relatively sane approach to building GUI toolkit (though
“sane” is relative given this particular domain) so I’m curious to see where
they take things even if I don’t use it.

------
lostgame
I’m kind of considering moving to this and Ardour instead of MacOS and Logic
Pro due to Apple’s recent commitment to making overpriced laptops with the SSD
and RAM soldered to the board, that lack the most basic ports I need to use
without annoying adapters.

As a video editor, the lack of an integrated SD card slot alone kills any
future purchases.

~~~
PascLeRasc
Elementary OS is really good, I think you'll like it quite a bit. Also check
out Bitwig - if you've used Ableton you'll find it familiar. Guitarix is a
really cool free amp emulator as well.

I really love Linux, especially on the desktop. With that said, I've stopped
attempting to use it to make music. There's just too much babysitting that
needs to be done [1]. A 2015 15" MBP with Ableton is the perfect machine for
me and lets me stay in my creative zone. Your experience might be different
though, good luck!

[1]
[https://www.reddit.com/r/WeAreTheMusicMakers/comments/9lv9ey...](https://www.reddit.com/r/WeAreTheMusicMakers/comments/9lv9ey/any_musicians_using_linux_here_which_is_your_daw/e79s8g3/)

------
kuon
While I use i3 on archlinux, I think elementary OS looks great and is a great
alternative for less tech savvy users. I am very grateful to the elementary OS
community for it existence. One other alternative could be Cinnamon.

~~~
Theizestooke
Ease of use and UI preferences have nothing to do with tech saviness.

~~~
loudmax
They absolutely do. If you're tech savvy, they're optional. If you're not, or
not interested in learning this stuff, they're required.

You can absolutely be tech savvy and prefer the ease of use of Elementary OS's
default options. But the converse is not true. You cannot be uninterested in
tech and have a good experience running i3 on Arch Linux.

------
bbmario
One thing that makes me love Elementary: they're sticking to skeuomorphic
design.

~~~
Wowfunhappy
What elements are you referring to? It all looks pretty abstract and flat to
me?

~~~
sooheon
Toggles, buttons, sliders, look like they could be on a white plastic physical
device. Flat for sure but more skeuomorphic than macOS in its current state
imo.

~~~
kitsunesoba
To me the elementary theme looks like a slightly more flat/matte version of
the Mavericks version of Aqua. It might not be in style these days but I like
it a lot.

~~~
Wowfunhappy
I so happen to have spent the past month working on a mostly-fruitless attempt
to get Mavericks running on modern hardware, so I certainly understand the
viewpoint. But I can't say I see the similarity at all. Have you looked at a
Mavericks machine recently? [https://512pixels.net/projects/aqua-screenshot-
library/os-x-...](https://512pixels.net/projects/aqua-screenshot-
library/os-x-10-9-mavericks/)

------
heinrichhartman
Installed Elementary on my Dad's Laptop last week. He is 75 now, and got
immediately productive with it, using Firefox for Email and Banking.

His Windows machines ALWAYS clogged up with Spy and Malware after a few
months. The last time, the suspend function broke and shut-down the PC
immediately, instead of suspending it. Reboot took 2minutes+ for _some_
reason.

Contrast this to the Mac Laptop of my mother which is fast, and clean after
5y+ of using it.

Looks like, Windows is untenable for the less computer literate at this point.
Too easy to mess up the system.

I have high hopes that Elementary/Linux will stay fast and clean for a while.
The old show-stoppers: Installation, Hardware Support and Usability are all
working smoothly so far.

~~~
AnIdiotOnTheNet
Same old story: user who only needs a web browser is well served by installing
<insert distro here>.

------
scythe
Unfortunately Elementary has so far struggled with the 1920x1080 screen on my
Huawei Matebook D (bought a few months before the scandal). I haven't
installed Hera yet, but hopefully the new text size option works as well as
I'd like it to.

Otherwise my experience with Elementary has been... not so bad. The speakers
are too quiet for some reason, my university's Wifi won't accept my
credentials (every other network is fine) and occasionally Firefox crashes the
world, but that's all, so far.

Wish list: a stable, possibly read-only[-only], update of ext2fsd, and a
proper Paintbrush clone. Also, .txt files should not automatically open in
Code, which would probably scare my mom.

~~~
amaccuish
> Unfortunately Elementary has so far struggled with the 1920x1080 screen on
> my Huawei Matebook D

Otherwise how has it been with Linux on that? I'm considering getting one,
they look great!

~~~
scythe
I'm happy to report that the annoying text size issue is fixed in the new
version of Elementary. However, the Firefox crashes still happen, and are the
biggest issue with the system. I can't recommend it as long as it's still
panicking every few days. (Firefox is not the only app, but certainly the most
likely, for me to be using when it freezes; no, I haven't delved too far into
this, nor have I made any strange modifications to the system.)

It works with the Wifi chip, speakers are too quiet (?), suspend/power is fine
(yay!), graphics seem to work. Overall a very near miss.

------
nycticorax
I feel like the Elementary folks have a lot of the right ideas about how to
build a desktop OS and a third-party software ecosystem around it. (In
particular: They have a HIG, and seem to make an effort to make their platform
appealing for developers.) But it sounds like they struggle with execution in
some ways:

[https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/elementary-0-4-loki-
agai...](https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/elementary-0-4-loki-again.html)

I haven't tried Elementary, but I've tried a lot of distros, and I always come
back to Ubuntu because it comes the closest to just working. (It doesn't do as
well as MacOS or Windows in the 'just working' department, in my experience
(let the flames begin!), but it does pretty well, and better than any other
Linux-based OS I've tried.)

And although reliable statistics seem to be hard to come by, my impression is
that Ubuntu is the most popular Linux-based desktop OS by a pretty wide
margin.

------
ilovecaching
I think Elementary should have focused on just shipping Pantheon as their end
product. GNOME has had issues not only in the performance department, but it's
also a very different type of minimalism for a DE that's supposed to be the
mainstream pick for normal users. Elementary has adopted a far more
conventional DE that feels as simple as GNOME, but far more usable.

But I'm never going to use Elementary over Ubuntu or Fedora, and I wouldn't
install it on a non-tech person's computer. Redhat employs all the
systemd/kernel folks so you're getting a super stable system with lots of
updates and vanilla packages. Ubuntu has lots of documentation and a huge
community. In terms of just gettting shit done as a programmer or a normal
user Elementary is fighting an uphill battle. Now if I could get Fedora or
Ubuntu with Pantheon as the default choice over GNOME - sign me up.

~~~
whalesalad
You’re not wrong. It’s clear that their passion lies in the user experience
and specifically look and feel.

~~~
kick
He _is_ wrong. They shouldn't have focused on throwing a layer on top of a
bloated base-image. They wanted cohesion, and cohesion doesn't come from
Canonical or Red Hat.

------
alex_muscar
Nice work. I don't think people appreciate just how much work has been put
into this project.

------
mosselman
How useful is Elementary OS for people who are more familiar with technology
and things like Ubuntu? Would I be able to install Nvidia drivers and CUDA,
build my own ffmpeg binaries, etc? or is it more aimed at installing on
machines for non-technical people?

~~~
saagarjha
Elementary OS is Ubuntu LTS. You can do what you'd do on Ubuntu just fine. (I
use it exclusively for technical work, for example.)

------
amdelamar
Feels very big for a 0.1 update, which is how it should be. Congrats to the
elementary team!

------
bscphil
I was trying to figure out why the laptop in the header image looks so huge,
and I think I did. The UI scaling is really really small for a normal ~15 inch
laptop. If that laptop is supposed to be about 13 inches, the dock should
probably be 50-100% bigger. A small issue, but it bugged me.

------
skbohra123
I have been using Elementary OS for a while. It's nice to use, but the biggest
issue is that there is no way to upgrade it to a newer distro version when it
comes.

I am stuck to elementary OS 0.4.1 Loki and only way to upgrade to the latest
version is to reinstall the whole thing.

~~~
snowpalmer
According to their article it sounds like you should be receiving updates. I'm
not sure if that was different during Loki though.

> Due to the rolling nature of elementary OS updates, users of elementary OS 5
> Juno get the update to 5.1 Hera alongside regular system updates from
> AppCenter.

------
pabs3
Does anyone know if any other distros are packaging any parts of elementary
OS?

~~~
majewsky
Arch Linux appears to have _some_ Pantheon applications in its repos, and the
rest of the desktop is in the AUR:
[https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pantheon](https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pantheon)

------
mangix
I love elementaryOS. Except for the kernel. That thing receives no updates.

~~~
rcarmo
It’s Ubuntu LTS beneath and I have had several kernel updates over the past
year.

------
eisa01
Does Elementary OS support importing iTunes and macOS Photos libraries?

~~~
azinman2
I’d imagine if it did it couldn’t play any DRM’d music... but I haven’t kept
track of where we’re at in stripping it.

------
outside1234
Wow - this looks great. Keep up the great work - I will have to find time to
install and try it over the slow holiday period.

~~~
blacksmith_tb
I will probably do the same - I tried using the last release (Juno) as a daily
driver and found it to be a little more effort than stock Ubuntu (mostly
around getting PPAs going, Flatpak support may make that less necessary). I
suppose the obvious competitor at this point for "beautiful Ubuntu derivative"
is Deepin[1] but I found it to be even more difficult to configure and install
stuff on.

1: [https://www.deepin.org/en/](https://www.deepin.org/en/)

------
vermaden
Still not icons on the desktop ...

------
batterystd
I thought this was the Android-on-desktop? What is that called?

~~~
saagarjha
Perhaps you're thinking of (the now discontinued, and unrelated) Remix OS?

~~~
batterystd
Sad to hear about the discontinued part

------
ossworkerrights
Wondering how copyright infringement applies to Open Source Software. This OS
looks a lot like MacOS, making it a free a clone.

~~~
michaelmrose
Copyright attaches to the literal code, text, or art. Making something that
looks vaguely similar cannot infringe on the owners copyright.

Trademark covers the idea of knock offs but honestly similarities are skin
deep and would be trying to protect vague similarities where there exists no
confusion.

Even if it were possible to make a case Apple owes more to open source than
vice versa and it would be terrible publicity

------
jstewartmobile
These "blah-OS" posts are so disappointing.

You click--hoping for some new take on what an operating system should be--
only to discover yet another half-assed linux distro.

~~~
benbenolson
This is quite a long-running project, and has tens of thousands of man-hours
invested in it. Yet you, taking several seconds to post an Internet comment,
declare it a "half-assed Linux distro," without even having properly read the
website.

The Elementary OS project develops many of their own applications, have
multiple custom themes, does relentless work ensuring available packages are
stable and usable for each release, and they have their own DE. Also, many of
the applications that weren't specifically made by the project were inspired
by the project to be further developed-- thus boosting their userbase and
volunteer developers.

Now, think what you will about the project, but this isn't a valid criticism.

~~~
jstewartmobile
Totally a valid criticism.

Elementary is based on Ubuntu, which is based on Debian, which is based on
Linux. Most of the value in that chain is the work of others.

Last I checked, debian.org & kernel.org don't have a " _Pay What You Want_ "
button above the fold.

Debian is awesome. Linux is awesome. I'm not going to tip my hat to some guy
putting skins on Debian and charging for it.

~~~
RussianCow
Everything is ultimately built on the work of others. Do you call Brave or
Vivaldi "half-assed" because they didn't write their own browser engine from
scratch?

The fact that they didn't start at zero doesn't make their contribution any
less meaningful.

------
firemelt
I hope the ui not built with vala

~~~
aksx
Why do you hope so? Vala is a decent language which let's users build Gtk
applications easily.

~~~
m0zg
Because most people aren't going to learn yet another language for the
privilege of being able to contribute to something.

~~~
toyg
If you are going to contribute to a Linux Desktop Environment, you are not the
target audience for Elementary.

Elementary wants to be “the Apple of Linux”, to attract less-technical users
and switchers from other OSes. Their development philosophy is similarly top-
down: someone sets a “vision” and a small group of people gets to implement
it. If you are a coder and you value bottom-up development, you should really
look elsewhere.

~~~
saagarjha
[https://elementary.io/get-involved](https://elementary.io/get-involved)

~~~
toyg
Yep, that page is perfectly ordered by priority: funding, free labour for
annoying tasks, and only towards the end, if you really really have to, you
can give us a hand under the hood or even (dead last! Why are you still
here?!?) help with design.

------
olah_1
The new greeter experience looks cool, but who the heck has multiple users on
their machine anymore?

This is a completely useless component to the OS.

~~~
oldgun
A computer shared by a family is not uncommon. You don't use it doesn't mean
no one uses it.

~~~
olah_1
> A computer shared by a family is not uncommon.

Why would they actually log out of one user and log in as another? Wouldn't it
benefit the parents to have all family members on the same user so they can
actually see what their kids are up to?

------
archbtw
Yet another demented linux thread where everyone doesn't use arch. Arch is no
more than pacman -Syu unless you've done something retarded. Arch is the least
demanding distro, unless you're totally useless or clueless. I use arch by the
way.

