
Saudi lifting ban on Skype, WhatsApp calls, but will monitor them - jnagro
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-telecoms-ban/saudi-lifting-ban-on-skype-whatsapp-calls-but-will-monitor-them-idUSKCN1BW12L
======
exikyut
> _It was unclear how the authorities can monitor apps such as WhatsApp, which
> says its messages are supported by end-to-end encryption, meaning the
> company cannot read customers’ messages even if approached by law
> enforcement agencies._

I'm both fascinated and perplexed too.

Any ideas/theories?

Does anyone know if you're governmentally required to install an SSL cert on
your device, for example?

~~~
honestlyreally
Messages are e2e, was under the impression that calls aren't yet.

~~~
ilyagr
According to [https://blog.whatsapp.com/10000618/end-to-end-
encryption](https://blog.whatsapp.com/10000618/end-to-end-encryption), they
are. Not sure who is wrong or lying. Or perhaps the"latest version" of
WhatsApp will be prohibited.

~~~
connorcpu
Perhaps the government only cares about who is calling who and for how long?

~~~
CogitoCogito
Aren't the whatsapp messages sent over the net? I.e. wouldn't it be the case
that the government could only see the outgoing IP address? I guess if they
were very well organized and working with the telecoms, they could then maybe
see the outgoing IP and assuming that IP were on a telecom network they also
controlled they could turn that into a person. This is all assuming that they
could even figure out which encrypted outgoing packets correspond to calls
(maybe this isn't too bad considering call streams would maybe have a fairly
standard packet rate, etc.?).

Either way seems pretty hard without direct help from whatsapp.

~~~
ihattendorf
It's Facebook that has access to this metadata.

> While the metadata is encrypted during transit, phone numbers, timestamps,
> connection duration, connection frequency, as well as user location are
> being stored on the company’s servers [0]

[0]
[https://arxiv.org/pdf/1701.06817.pdf](https://arxiv.org/pdf/1701.06817.pdf)

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aorth
The article mentions several reasons for blocking IP-based voice and text chat
programs. This type of confusion is common in other countries in the region.
Lovely part of the world here (posting from Jordan, where Skype reliably,
consistently drops after one minute or less)!

> _regulations aimed to protect users’ personal information and block content
> that violated the kingdom’s laws._

Censoring content.

> _Saudi Arabia began blocking them from 2013, wary that such services could
> be used by activists._

Blocking political dissent.

> _The decision to lift the blocks could negatively impact Saudi Arabia’s
> three main telecoms operators - Saudi Telecom Co (STC), Etihad Etisalat
> (Mobily) and Zain Saudi_

Protecting business revenues of traditional telecom companies.

------
harry8
Very poor headline. No evidence of any deal to MITM WhatsApp encryption. What
deal? With who?

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Lanthanide
I'm not sure this is at all accurate. Source: I'm in Saudi, and it's not
working at the moment- unlike the other apps.

There's been a big deal made out of the lifting of the voip ban since it's
been a pain in the ass for users for years, but they specifically stated that
whatsapp and Viber are excluded (though Telegram is present somehow...). CITC,
our local FCC equivalent, said that the the requirements laid out in the
unblocking decision are 1: having a "clear mechanism for contact and
cooperation in emergencies" (I'm guessing this is partially euphemism for
intercept court orders and similar as well), 2: being open to removing illegal
content, 3: having a clear and robust data protection system in place for
users, and 4: making it possible to call emergency numbers [1, Arabic].

Obviously a lot of these can be technically impossible like the one about
being able to call emergency numbers, and for those with e2e encryption a lot
of the content requirements are impossible too. But hey, baby steps I guess-
the telecoms are livid about the lost revenue stream, and people no longer
have to use VPNs for friggin' Facetime to work.

[1]
[https://sabq.org/%D8%B1%D9%81%D8%B9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AD%D8%AC...](https://sabq.org/%D8%B1%D9%81%D8%B9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AD%D8%AC%D8%A8-%D8%B9%D9%86-%D8%AA%D8%B7%D8%A8%D9%8A%D9%82%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D9%85%D9%86%D8%AA%D8%B5%D9%81-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%84-%D9%88%D8%A7%D8%A8%D9%88%D8%AD%D9%8A%D9%85%D8%AF-%D9%84%D9%80-%D8%B3%D8%A8%D9%82-%D9%87%D8%B0%D9%87-%D9%87%D9%8A-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%AA%D8%B7%D9%84%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D9%86%D8%B8%D9%8A%D9%85%D9%8A%D8%A9)

~~~
kihadi
>تطبيقات المكالمات منتصف الليل

this is hysterical. they actually call these apps "midnight-call apps".

Bernays would be proud.

~~~
Lanthanide
Hah, while that would be hilarious it's not what it means in context; it
refers to the apps block being lifted at midnight this past Wednesday.

~~~
kihadi
yeah this makes more sense

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jarjoura
TBH, This is the lead:

> The decision to lift the blocks could negatively impact Saudi Arabia’s three
> main telecoms operators - Saudi Telecom Co (STC), Etihad Etisalat (Mobily)
> and Zain Saudi - which earn the bulk of their revenue from international
> phone calls made by the millions of expatriates living in the kingdom.

> Zain Saudi’s CEO, Peter Kaliaropoulos, told Reuters some lost income could
> be recouped through expansion of its own data services.

> “The Saudi market has a strong appetite for faster data throughput and
> higher data use packages,” he said in an email. “The opportunity to monetize
> the extra data usage will partially offset voice revenue losses”.

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qrbLPHiKpiux
End to end encryption, yo.

Utter bullshit when relying on a 3rd party.

I apologize for cursing.

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nicolashahn
...removing the main reason to use WhatsApp.

