
HP EliteBook: A friend to the User - sohkamyung
https://ifixit.org/blog/9641/hp-elitebook-a-friend-to-the-user/
======
raesene9
This kind of repairability has been a general feature of "enterprise" friendly
laptops like ThinkPads and Elitebooks for a while.

I've had an Elitebook 840 for 4 years now, great laptop, very solid, still
working well. The repairability is handy for me in two ways.

1) If I want to upgrade/replace the storage I can do that easily, so I was
able to upgrade to a 512GB SSD without any problems.

2) As the laptop gets older and the battery inevitably starts to wear down, I
can just buy a replacement battery.

All this means a much longer lifespan for my laptop, which is good for me as I
like it as an overall device.

~~~
pletnes
Repairability is a good thing. That being said, the 5 year old macbook pro I
replaced had way better battery life than the then-new HP 840 G3 I am now
using day to day.

------
dahauns
Two models I'd like to add to this as examples that this is actually possible
with all form factors:

First the The HP Elite X2, a Surface Pro-class tablet. Quite analogous to the
EliteBook - sadly the RAM is soldered (IIRC one of their first actually still
had a SODIMM slot):

[https://ifixit.org/blog/8135/hats-off-to-hps-repairable-
tabl...](https://ifixit.org/blog/8135/hats-off-to-hps-repairable-tablet/)

[https://ifixit.org/blog/9309/hp-
elite-x2-1012-g2/](https://ifixit.org/blog/9309/hp-elite-x2-1012-g2/)

And second, the Fujitsu Lifebook U93x. smaller and lighter than most Business-
Ultrabooks - almost MacBook 12 size/weight, but still KabyLake U, >10h battery
and everything socketed+lots of ports (including USB-A, HDMI, even full size
Ethernet!):

[https://www.notebookcheck.net/Fujitsu-
LifeBook-U937-Core-i5-...](https://www.notebookcheck.net/Fujitsu-
LifeBook-U937-Core-i5-Full-HD-Laptop-Review.240080.0.html)

~~~
pizza234
> The HP Elite X2, a Surface Pro-class tablet

This tablet is absolutely fascinating; it turns the "cost of repairability" of
a pro-tablet into a material measurement : 100g on 700g (14%).

I wonder, all things being equal (which of course, it's not realistic), what's
the impact on the attractiveness to the general (not HN) public. It would be
significant even it if would conquer a "solid nieche".

To make an interesting comparison, a 12.3" Elite X2 weighs as a 15" Surface
Book 2 (though the latter has a different form factor, while stil being in the
pro-tablet category).

(~700g is the standard weight of a "pro-tablet": 12.x inches, without (cover)
keyboard)

~~~
dahauns
Indeed, this is something I've wondered myself, since in my experience even
100g does make a big difference in a tablet. But I've come to the conclusion -
it's hard to really pinpoint the "cost of repairability".

Taking the numbers:

    
    
        IPad Pro 12,9: 692g
        Surface Book 2 13: 719g
        Surface Pro 2017: 770g
        Elite X2 1012 G2: 800g
        Surface Book 2 15: 817g
    

Of course, the IPad pro shines, and apple certainly are famous for "shaving
off every possible gram" \- but it's just so different a platform, esp.
thermals, that it's hard to make conclusions towards "cost of repairability".
The Surface Book 2 tablet modules _are_ light for their size, but I'd say this
is primarily bought due to a significantly smaller battery compared to the SP
and the Elite (23Wh vs 46/47Wh) - batteries are _heavy_.

The only devices here realistically comparable IMO would be the Surface Pro
and the Elite X2.

But IMO the more interesting device I've posted for this kind of comparison
(even though I wouldn't consider +/-100g that critical here as I would with
tablets) is the Fujitsu U937, because it's one of the lightest x86 notebooks
overall on the market, while still offering competitive specs in all metrics
(CPU, RAM, ports, battery size, display size, etc.) and still being easy to
repair/upgrade. (Too bad that keyboard and touchpad are rather mediocre :( )

------
aidos
Does anyone know what the story is for running Linux on EliteBooks?

For context, I'm in the market for a slightly older laptop for my daughter.
Something that I could maybe pick up on ebay (in the UK) and upgrade some
components would be ideal. Would prefer one I can put Linux on.

The Chromebook route turned into a pain when I tried it so I'd like a machine
I have some control over.

~~~
Xylakant
Thinkpads might be a good option. Linux support is fairly good, especially the
older models and the T-Series does have some models with upgradable RAM and
battery. (Not the slim T4x0s)

~~~
aidos
I did have a look at Thinkpads but was somewhat overwhelmed by the number of
models. Will have a look at the T series to see what's around. Thanks for the
tip.

~~~
pletnes
The W series are workstations. Solid, fast, heavy, expensive.

~~~
brudgers
I think the workstations start with "P" these days. Good machines.

------
SmellyGeekBoy
I don't see the Dell XPS 15 9560 on their site but I was pleasantly surprised
when I dismantled mine the other day (to re-do the thermal compound, which I
can highly recommend btw).

It looks very similar to the HP inside and everything seems to be upgradeable
/ swappable - M2 SSD, MiniPCIE wifi / bluetooth module, proper socketed RAM,
battery, fans etc. etc.

I was genuinely surprised considering it's a fairly sleek and compact machine
for the spec.

That said, I didn't take apart the screen so I can't speak for the webcam or
LCD panel.

------
chrisper
HP is not jumping to my mind at all when I am thinking about user friendly
companies. Are they changing their image?

~~~
dagw
HP's EliteBooks and ZBooks (and Z-series workstations) have always been
incredibly solid computers that are trivial to repair and and upgrade. However
for some unfathomable reason HP has always insisted on primarily marketing its
low end consumer line of laptops, which tend to be complete dog shit.

~~~
chris11
I'd say that's common though. A lot of pc makers have widely different quality
standards for their consumer and business lines.

------
pcr0
On the flip side, the % of space taken up by the battery is tiny compared to
macbooks.

One could argue that of all the components in a laptop, the battery wearing
down is what most people will face, so having custom components + a larger
battery might be better than having modular components.

~~~
rowyourboat
Or just make the battery replaceable.

------
pmlnr
That's how all business line laptops are - Latitudes, ThinkPads, Elitebooks.
That's how they've been for decades.

~~~
epanchin
Unfortunately Levono has ditched this approach with the x280.

~~~
pmlnr
Not even remotely true: the keyboard is again a simple replace, unlike the in
the X240-X270 line. Yes, the RAM is soldered, but that's all.

------
willtim
Another counterexample to the "Apple make the best hardware" meme that is so
often repeated. I find the whole concept of a disposable 1000+ dollar machine
with a glued-in battery rather abhorrent.

~~~
Xylakant
The glued-in battery makes fixing it at home harder, but comes with
significant weight and space savings. It’s a trade off, like so many things
and many people (including me) are willing to accept it. Apple is not the only
manufacturer to do this, my Thinkpad has a non-user-serviceable battery as
well. It’s not like the battery cannot be replaced, and I’m willing to have my
machine serviced at an authorized repair shop when the battery needs changing.
In exchange I get a lighter and slimmer laptop that I lug around every day.
The cost for a battery change on a MacBook is just slightly higher than the
battery for the older models.

This may not be a trade off you’re willing to make, but it does not make the
machine disposable.

~~~
willtim
My Thinkpad Carbon X1 has a user-replaceable battery and is practically the
same weight and size as a MacBook Air. So it is certainly not a compromise I
agree with. The "disposable" label was a bit harsh, but there are other
compromises in the MacBook Pro, for example the SSD, which is more prone to
failure than other components, is soldered on to the logic board.

~~~
Xylakant
We may have a different notion of "user-replaceable". I'd only consider a
battery that can be swapped without opening up the laptop user-replaceable.
Soldering the components to the board is the same kind of trade-off: It saves
weight, space and increases battery lifetime. You also compare the relatively
new X1 with an outdated (though still sold) Macbook that was designed and
built at a time when no laptop even got close to the size, weight and battery
life of a MacBook Air, especially the 11" version. There were other laptops
just as small, but they'd compromise on battery life, others that had the same
battery life, but weighted more. Granted, it's certainly an extreme
compromise, but I know more than a handful of people that would never trade
their 11" Air for anything else. You can, btw., have the SSD changed, it's not
soldered to the board for Airs. It's just an uncommon form factor that few
vendors sell. See [https://everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook-air/macbook-
air-f...](https://everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook-air/macbook-air-
faq/macbook-air-mid-2013-how-to-replace-upgrade-ssd-storage.html) for example

~~~
willtim
On the X1 Carbon, you will have to remove some screws, but Lenovo provide a
guide to the process:
[https://support.lenovo.com/gb/en/solutions/pd103715](https://support.lenovo.com/gb/en/solutions/pd103715)

I believe the latest X1 Carbon weighs significantly less than a MacBook Pro.

~~~
Xylakant
You’d be surprised: 1.39kg for the carbon, 1.37kg for the MacBook (13”) The
latest Pro models are comparable to the Airs in weight.

------
sz4kerto
My refurbished Zbook had problems with the screen (it looked like). I called
HP, engineer came to my flat few hours later, replaced the screen for a new
one. He tested it and realized that it's still flickering, so he replaced the
GPU. Things worked well, so he left. All of this took ~ 45 minutes.

Ah, and it happened in CEE, not in the USA, so it's even more surprising.

~~~
Hydraulix989
What kind of special warranty did you get for them to do that for you?

~~~
sz4kerto
Next business day onsite. It's a normal option for business laptops.

------
wooptoo
I'm glad companies are finally coming back to this. Looks very similar to my
Inspiron I bought a few years ago. Once you open up the back plate everything
is laid nicely in front of you ready to service. I changed my RAM/HDD/Wifi NIC
in a matter of minutes. In case you're wondering the model is Dell Inspiron
15-7537 from 2013.

~~~
Double_a_92
I had a 2010 Inspiron, it was much worse back then. I remember that it
overheated and I wanted to open it to remove dust and apply fresh thermal
paste... I literally had to remove every single piece of it, they were all
spread all over my room :D

~~~
chopin
That's strange, I have 2009 Inspiron (1545 iirc), where this is easy. There's
a bunch of Youtube videos for that.

------
shdwban
Isn't that because their primary target audience is Enterprises? All
enterprise computers specially the most sold of them all- thinkpads are
amazingly easy to repair

------
mrtksn
I really dislike labeling repairability as user-friendliness.

I never ever bought a device with intentions of repairing it, I always hope
that I will never have to repair it and just use it.

Yes, it is nice to be able to repair it but if it fails, next time I'm buying
a laptop I will avoid it and stick with the brand that did not fail and sits
in my drawer because it's too slow by modern standards.

Repairability is probably useful for enterprises but enterprises are not users
despite that sometimes they can be described as such(they are customers).

~~~
koyote
But it's not just repairing, it's being able to upgrade.

I have a 6 year-old Lenovo and it's still performing amazingly. Since buying
it I have upgraded the HDD twice (to an SSD and then to a slightly larger and
faster SSD), upgraded the RAM once and even upgraded the screen (to a higher
resolution IPS display that was backwards compatible).

If I had bought an un-upgradable laptop I'd probably already have had to buy a
new one (no matter how well it is built).

~~~
Nullabillity
Yup. It's also surprisingly hard to find a decent new laptop these days.

About a week ago I started at a new company, and was asked to find a laptop
that I wanted. The cheapest one with a 1TB SSD was ~$2000, and the cheapest
one that would be decent out of the box was a $1300 Dell.

Instead I ended up getting a $600 gaming laptoo with a decent CPU, and
installed the RAM and SSD myself for $450, ending up with a far better laptop
that was still hundreds cheaper than that Dell.

Try doing that with a Mac.

~~~
c256
The only gaming laptops I’ve seen that weren’t _vastly_ inferior to both every
Mac currently sold and also the EliteBook line from the OP in terms of battery
life and portability costs between 3.5-5 times what you said you paid. Mind
sharing what make and model you got? Thanks.

~~~
detaro
Many developer laptops probably live on a desk most of the time, so these two
things are easy to sacrifice for many.

