
Dating While Dying - wallflower
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/24/opinion/sunday/dating-while-dying.html
======
throwaway201912
I have just started dating a woman who is 22, she has advanced ovarian cancer
and a life expectancy that is 12 months and is scheduled for surgery and chemo
in January (but this may be sooner given the pain).

This is just a fact between us, and it's something we'll have to deal with. I
fell for her, she fell for me, we work well on so many levels.

I know she is likely to die (a 12 month life expectancy isn't a foregone
conclusion) but we don't discuss this or make it a focus. Our focus is on
living life with passion, a clock that counts 70 years or 1 year doesn't
change our approach to life.

I don't really know what to say, I just wanted to put an acknowledgement from
myself to the universe down somewhere that yes I know what I'm getting myself
into, and yet I love her and it's worth it.

Live life qualitatively not quantitatively.

~~~
raldi
The Strawberry Koan might speak to you:
[http://www.ashidakim.com/zenkoans/18aparable.html](http://www.ashidakim.com/zenkoans/18aparable.html)

~~~
patch_cable
Which I just learned is the inspiration for this children's book:
[https://smile.amazon.com/Little-Sid-Prince-Became-
Buddha/dp/...](https://smile.amazon.com/Little-Sid-Prince-Became-
Buddha/dp/1626726361/)

------
kick
The author's post after realizing things had gotten too severe:

[http://apainintheneck.com/2019/11/16/the-worst-
thing/](http://apainintheneck.com/2019/11/16/the-worst-thing/)

† The author's obituary:

[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/04/obituaries/josie-rubio-
de...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/04/obituaries/josie-rubio-dead.html)

~~~
claudiawerner
For me it's rather curious that people place such a high value on finding an
SO even when dying. This seems to speak to one (or two) things: that it is a
tragedy to have lived and never been in love, and that having someone with you
in the pain and the last period of your live is very highly valued.

It makes me think of all the people who don't have a terminal disease but
still never manage to find someone. Their case, while sad, is perhaps not as
tragic.

~~~
coldtea
These musings have a little "alien observing earth people" tone...

~~~
ProAm
I think that is a trend in most HN comments just because the nature of the
audience. Not a bad or good thing, just an observation.

------
flocial
"She'd coyly mention shedding a twelve-year-long relationship with an abusive
narcissist to find a love who didn't leave hospice for two weeks and was at
her side when the cancer finally ended her life on December 3rd at 1:30AM in
Brooklyn, at Calvary Hospice."

[https://www.facebook.com/josie.rubio.33/posts/10156307361797...](https://www.facebook.com/josie.rubio.33/posts/10156307361797142)

I'm glad she found someone worthy to spend her last days with. I can
definitely relate to overreacting toward the existential dread of social
situations/interactions.

------
Johnny555
A long time ago I knew a young woman who was facing breast cancer, I don't
remember what stage it was, but she said doctors told her she might only have
a year to live, even with aggressive treatment. She had accepted her fate and
was just trying to live her live as well as she could.

A few months after I met her, she was killed in a drunk driving accident.

On the other hand, I also met someone who had a brain tumor when she was in
her 20's, her life expectancy was unknown, her long-term boyfriend at the time
left her because he couldn't deal with it. When I met her she was in her
mid-40's, happily married with kids - she had successful surgery to remove the
tumor.

Everyone has a limited lifetime and you don't always know how short it will
be.

------
jacquesm
Thank you, nytimes.com for overruling the obituary of one of your authors with
a forced signup modal.

Other than that, wow, what a story and courage. The napkin bit really got me.
42 is way too young to die.

~~~
dangus
And if you don’t pay your newspaper subscription you don’t get the paper
delivered to your door at all.

Complaining about paywalls isn’t productive.

~~~
jacquesm
I'm not complaining about the paywall per-se, I'm complaining about the fact
that an obituary of an author that is linked from a page that is not paywalled
should _also_ not be paywalled, that's common courtesy. To attempt to get
people to subscribe over the backs of your recently deceased contributors is
something no self respecting newspaper should ever want to be seen doing. At
best it is tone-deaf, at worst simply callous.

~~~
aidenn0
I'm pretty sure all of NYT is paywalled, they just keep track of how many
pages you visit and throw up the pay wall after a certain number.

------
adim86
I think this is a great post to remember her by. It is funny, it is sad and
also contains pain. It is very human and it shows how one thing in life can be
multi-dimensional at the same time. I think this showcases the complexity of
the human condition and how life ends up being the way we decide to look at
it. My condolences to her friends and family and may she rest in peace

------
datingthrowaway
I may not be dying, but I am losing my eyesight. This article is about a very
one-sided phenomenon, and largely speaks to the desperation of men in the
current dating market. I literally cannot imagine reciprocal treatment from a
woman. I have not been in a relationship since I got this condition, and I
don't expect that I ever will be again.

~~~
frostburg
I'm sorry about your health issues, but it appears to me that they are
(understandably) affecting your overall mindset.

There are plenty of disabled men in functional relatioships (and not-so-
functional ones, there is a subset of people, male or female, that are
specifically attracted to ill or dying partners for problematic reasons).
Please lose the incel angle.

~~~
datingthrowaway
Show me some. If you are able to find examples, they will most likely be
famous billionaires or actors. However I can point you to an equal number of
examples where fame and fortune still didn't cut it.

You cannot discount my experiences and observations unless you have gone
through this yourself.

~~~
ceejayoz
The idea that blind people don't/can't date is readily disprovable. Examples
of _anything_ will tend to be notable; that doesn't mean non-notable people
don't exist.

[https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/j5ajj7/how-dating-
works-w...](https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/j5ajj7/how-dating-works-when-
youre-living-with-blindness)

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soloish/wp/2017/01/09/wh...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soloish/wp/2017/01/09/what-
is-it-like-to-date-while-blind/)

You might consider finding a local support group for people who've recently
lost their sight.

~~~
jimbokun
Those are both written by women about their experiences.

Any examples of men successfully dating after starting to lose their eyesight?
Or other disabilities?

I think I've read other articles in the past about women with disabilities
having a relatively easy time dating, but men with disabilities having a lot
more difficulty.

~~~
ceejayoz
Two men (one with glaucoma, which generally starts in adulthood) are quoted in
[https://metro.co.uk/2017/11/08/what-its-like-to-date-when-
yo...](https://metro.co.uk/2017/11/08/what-its-like-to-date-when-youre-
blind-7041772/) \- as you might expect, "non-notable recently blind men
dating" isn't a super easy thing to Google for.

The first mentions dating within the blind community, which would likely make
things substantially easier on both parties.

I've seen enough weird parings and horrible people in relationships to feel
quite comfortable with the statement "blind isn't a guaranteed deal-breaker".
I do suspect the recency matters a lot - grief after loss can be all-consuming
and take time to come to terms with.

Side note: My spouse is disabled, so I'm also quite comfortable with the
concept of dating someone with a disability.

~~~
avgDev
I have an invisible illness, after seeing more physicians that I can count.
The conclusion appears to be some neurological issues with connective tissue
problems which result in chronic pain and fatigue most likely caused by
antibiotic I took 7 years as symptoms started right after my allergic
reaction.

I got married after symptoms began. It was not easy but life doesn't stop. I'm
still coming to terms and searching for something that works
meds/supplements/physical therapy. However, I don't considered myself disabled
even though this is quite limiting and I require more rest.

I think once one accepts your alignment and find ways of still being a member
of the society, one will have a much better luck dating. I think the
depression that these problems bring is just really hard to deal with and
affects people around us.

------
__m
Gee I have to use my time more carefully, otherwise I’ll live like I’m
immortal until I’m not. I’m a doctor‘s visit away from going from a relaxed
life to fighting for life, clinging on remote hopes of survival. Being able to
date someone in that state is astonishing. Everything I’d do would be tainted
by the thought „this is the last time I do this before I die“.

~~~
trevyn
> _I’ll live like I’m immortal until I’m not_

Honestly, that sounds much more fun than living with a constant obsession over
your own mortality.

~~~
badpun
That's how you get plenty of disabled (or dead) young men, who do reckless
stuff on motorbikes, skis or jump head-first into shallow water etc. I've
recklessly damaged my health [1] while 22 and I gotta say it sucks.

[1] Maybe not even recklessly, I just wasn't aware that ultra-loud music for
hours in a disco can cause tinnitus.

------
mirimir
> I asked my boyfriend what he thought happens after we die. He says you live
> on in other people’s memories, and I won’t be forgotten.

If that moves you, I recommend _I Am a Strange Loop_ by Douglas R. Hofstadter
(2007).[0]

> Theories aside, it's impossible not to experience this book as a tender,
> remarkably personal and poignant effort to understand the death of his wife
> from cancer in 1993—and to grasp how consciousness mediates our otherwise
> ineffable relationships. In the end, Hofstadter's view is deeply
> philosophical rather than scientific. It's hopeful and romantic as well, as
> his model allows one consciousness to create and maintain within itself true
> representations of the essence of another.

0) [https://www.amazon.com/Am-Strange-Loop-Douglas-Hofstadter-
eb...](https://www.amazon.com/Am-Strange-Loop-Douglas-Hofstadter-
ebook/dp/B004PYDBS0)

------
neonate
[http://archive.is/lsGS0](http://archive.is/lsGS0)

------
rsjaaji
This article strikes a very personal chord with me. My girlfriend of six
months broke up with me without giving any apparent reason. After several
months, I found out that she had discovered that she had tumor. Before she
started on chemo, she decided to break up with me. The irony of the situation
is that she won't really tell me what happened, and without violating her
trust and respecting her privacy, and her choice to face this alone, I have no
way of even finding out how she is doing. All I can do is silently hope that
she would regain her health again.

------
paulie_a
Well I am not dieing I nearly did this year. I will need a heart transplant in
the next ten years. And I probably have 20 years left. But I still date.
Trying to find that someone to share my remaining years with

------
carlsborg
All of us are dying.

~~~
nkrisc
Yeah, so? Some of us faster than others.

~~~
ansible
And the certainty / uncertainty of each individual's situation makes a big
difference.

It is a real gut-punch when you know exactly when you're going to die,
especially if that date is not far off.

------
sixQuarks
I would like to see an experiment to see how many responses a man would get on
dating sites if he posted the same profile.

~~~
Pigo
Probably the same amount every other "average" man gets dating sites.

------
unnouinceput
Reading quote 1: "...just relieved it was her and not me putting down a credit
card at the bar to buy his drinks" I was like "wtf", but then reading quote 2:
"Plus, after years of paying for myself and my ex, it still seems like a good
deal." I realized that she was in a toxic relation for 12 years. I mean,
c'mon, 12 years only one partner to pay for everything, that's way too much. I
know people who divorced faster because of one partner was lazy and she went
through with it while having diagnosed for years?

~~~
metabagel
This isn’t unusual. It can take a long time to realize you are with someone
who is toxic for you.

