
How cancer cells fuel their growth - ner0x652
http://news.mit.edu/2016/how-cancer-cells-fuel-their-growth-0307
======
andy_ppp
Dom D’Agostino on various things about Ketosis and Cancer fighting.

[http://fourhourworkweek.com/2015/11/03/dominic-
dagostino/](http://fourhourworkweek.com/2015/11/03/dominic-dagostino/)

Ted Talk here:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fM9o72ykww](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fM9o72ykww)

I'm going to try the Bullet Proof Coffee recipe I think!

~~~
petegrif
It can scarcely be described as coffee. To my taste it is an unspeakably vile
tasting concoction.

~~~
MisterBastahrd
I didn't mind it... but MCT oil has the same effect on my digestive system as
eating a pound of sugar free haribo gummy bears.

~~~
jwdunne
I found it a good offset against keto-constipation.

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barney54
For much more information on this argument about sugar and cancer, see the
book Cancer as a Metabolic Disease. [http://www.amazon.com/Cancer-Metabolic-
Disease-Management-Pr...](http://www.amazon.com/Cancer-Metabolic-Disease-
Management-Prevention/dp/0470584920)

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joveian
Here is a good article on the fermentation aspect of cancer that seems to have
not appeared on HN: [http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-
fermentation-g...](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-fermentation-
gives-us-beer-wine-cheese-and-cancer/)

Dispite what the title could sound like, the article is not linking any food
with cancer, but talking about how cancer cells use fermentation for energy.

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garyclarke27
A low carb diet has been proven to inhibit the development of most cancers,
because of their huge requirement for glucose. The obvious conclusion from
this research is that low carb AND low protein diet is the best option to
inhibit cancer. Kind of also supports leading bio hackers such as Dave Asprey
creator of Bulletproof coffee. His podcasts are brilliant, they have made a
big impression on me - as a result I've switched to a higher fat less protein
less carbs diet and feel much better for it and i have far more energy.

~~~
fpoling
This does not explain how people in rural China that eat mostly carbs with
very little fat and consume 25% calories more per body mass than westerners
have noticeably less rates of most cancers. Only their rate for stomach cancer
is significantly elevated compared with Western levels.

~~~
personjerry
Do you have a citation for this?

~~~
fpoling
See [http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/food-in-china-
vari...](http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/food-in-china-variety-and-
monotony/)

\- it discuss results of studies in China from 1980-1990 that showed that
regions in China where people consumed pretty much all calories from rice or
vegetables or those where people do eat a lot of meat have similar cancer
rates making highly problematic any claim that excessive carbo is associated
with increased cancer risk.

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CommanderData
Very interesting. What does this mean for low carb, high protein diets heavily
promoted these days (Keto)?

Reminds me of this talk on TED - William Li, Anti-Angiogenesis therapy:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjkzfeJz66o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjkzfeJz66o)

Does this research mean these diets and therapies are less effective than
previously thought?

~~~
jtmarmon
Keto is not low carb, high protein. It's high fat, low carb, moderate protein.
On keto you eat the standard recommended amount of protein (depending on your
athleticism, it'll be around .69-1.2g per lb of LBM). Most of your calories
come from fat.

My breakfast this morning was coffee with butter and MCT oil

~~~
junto
Aren't you just trading cancer for heart disease though?

~~~
merpnderp
Last time I went on a low card diet my cholesterol and triglycerides went from
marginal to optimal. In 3 months. Notice that the AHA now says cholesterol is
no longer a nutrient of concern.

When it comes to fats, the leading recommendation is to limit saturated fats,
not total fat intake. And the AHA even (reluctantly) recommends an Atkins
style diet, to get started for weight loss, but to discontinue after a few
months.

[http://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/2015-scientific-
report/0...](http://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/2015-scientific-
report/06-chapter-1/d1-2.asp)

~~~
noondip
Cholesterol and triglycerides will always drop in the short-term when weight
is lost. 3 months is not a long enough time to make a sound judgement about
your diet.

With regards to an Atkins-style diet, you need to read the facts on
[http://atkinsexposed.org/](http://atkinsexposed.org/) and not get your
information from an organization with a financial incentive to promote
unhealthy foods.

~~~
merpnderp
So you're saying "atkinsexposed.org" is good, but the American Medical
Association is "an organization with a financial incentive to promote
unhealthy foods."

Yeah, good luck convincing people with that argument.

~~~
noondip
It isn't the American Medical Association which I'm referring to, but rather
the American Heart Association. From the parent's source:

> The DGAC used the 2013 American Heart Association/American College of
> Cardiology (AHA/ACC) report on lifestyle management to reduce CVD risk for
> its evaluation of saturated fat intake. The DGAC concurred with the AHA/ACC
> report that saturated fat intake exceeds current recommendations in the
> United States and that lower levels of consumption would further reduce the
> population level risk of CVD.

The cited work is
[http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/129/25_suppl_2/S76.long](http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/129/25_suppl_2/S76.long)

This page explains it well - [http://www.pcrm.org/nbBlog/index.php/new-
dietary-guidelines-...](http://www.pcrm.org/nbBlog/index.php/new-dietary-
guidelines-the-good-the-bad-and-the-downright-confusing)

> The report suggested that cholesterol in foods is not a major danger,
> contrasting with the Institute of Medicine, which found that cholesterol in
> foods does indeed raise blood cholesterol levels, especially in people whose
> diets are modest in cholesterol to start with. On this topic, the Dietary
> Guidelines Advisory Committee did no original research and instead deferred
> to a 2014 report by the American Heart Association and American College of
> Cardiology. However, the American Heart Association receives substantial
> cash payments for certifying food products, including cholesterol-containing
> food products as “heart healthy,” creating a financial incentive for
> discounting the relationship between dietary cholesterol and serum
> cholesterol. The Physicians Committee is concerned that exonerating dietary
> cholesterol will only confuse an already bewildered public. Most people do
> not differentiate fat from cholesterol, or dietary cholesterol from blood
> cholesterol. To suggest that cholesterol in foods is not a problem will lead
> many to imagine that fatty foods or an elevated blood cholesterol level
> carry no risk—two potentially disastrous notions.

> Accordingly, the Physicians Committee has petitioned the USDA and DHHS to
> disregard the Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee’s findings on dietary
> cholesterol. The reliance on the American Heart Association document does
> not comply with the spirit of the Federal Advisory Committee Act, which sets
> standards for bias among federal advisory committees.

They have filed a lawsuit against the USDA and Department of Health and Human
Services:

[http://www.foodpolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/Physicians-
Co...](http://www.foodpolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/Physicians-Committee-
USDA-HHS-Lawsuit-1.6.16-2.pdf)

I highly recommend reading it to understand the sad, corrupted state of
affairs I had alluded to.

~~~
merpnderp
The PCRM hardly seems like an unbiased group solely focused on human medicine.
They are a political advocacy group and who's points are just as tainted as
you claim the AHA's are. Only the AHA is much more widely respected. I mean my
doctor is a fan of one and not the other. And I trust him with my life.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicians_Committee_for_Respo...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicians_Committee_for_Responsible_Medicine)

~~~
noondip
Please read the court document and evaluate PCRM's position on its own merit.
Frankly, I find AHA and others' behavior outlined there to be morally
abhorrent and worthy of discussion.

I definitely understand your skepticism, but in this case, your doctor may
also be poorly informed - see
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430660/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430660/)

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tosseraccount
Two words. Clinical Trials.

Link to real paper is here : [http://www.cell.com/developmental-
cell/fulltext/S1534-5807%2...](http://www.cell.com/developmental-
cell/fulltext/S1534-5807%2816%2930036-3)

("please login")

~~~
loopdedoo
Here it is: [http://sci-hub.bz/10.1016/j.devcel.2016.02.012](http://sci-
hub.bz/10.1016/j.devcel.2016.02.012)

Pay walls are pretty annoying, but quite easy to get around these days due to
several community efforts:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/Scholar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Scholar)

[https://www.researchgate.net](https://www.researchgate.net) (you can "Request
full text" from a researcher)

I'm sure there are others.

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jasonkolb
I became really interested in this a while back after watching a fascinating
BBC documentary about fasting. It stated that cancer could not grow in the
absence of IGF-1 (a growth hormone secreted in response to protein ingestion).
I did a bunch of research and found barely anything out there about it, but
the little I found did seem to back it up.

I recommend anyone interested in this topic watch this film, it's great:
[http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvdbtt_eat-fast-live-
longer...](http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvdbtt_eat-fast-live-longer-
hd_shortfilms#.UbXtVvnV98E)

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signa11
kind of tangential to the topic, but, if someone is interested in knowing
about the history of the disease etc. the book "the emperor of all maladies"
is an excellent introduction.

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DanielBMarkham
I wonder how effective the following strategy would be:

As soon as you are diagnosed with any type of cancer, begin an immediate fast
(duration TBD). The reasoning is that it hurts the cancer more than you, plus
it provides a temporary boost in your immune system.

It probably wouldn't provide a huge advantage, but heck, even if it only
improves overall survival 1-3%? It'd be worth it.

~~~
rubicon33
I like the idea. An immediate fast, though for how long I'm not sure.

Follow that with a raw vegan diet, with lots of avocados and cilantro.

Add traditional cancer treatment methods.

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koevet
Does it mean that protein intake should be lowered to reduce cancer risk?

~~~
signa11
> Does it mean that protein intake should be lowered to reduce cancer risk?

without having any clue about the topic, i just googled around, and
apparently, this paper from NIH :
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3988204/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3988204/)
seem to suggest that it (Low Protein Intake) does help, up to some degree.

~~~
fpoling
The article does not suggest low protein intake, it states that results
indicate "high levels of animal proteins promote mortality". I.e. high intake
of protein from plants is not associated with increase in mortality.

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timrpeterson
It's a good study from high quality researchers, but to be fair there is a
study almost every week for the last 50 years saying something like this.

~~~
fordarnold
References please?

~~~
timrpeterson
Pubmed amino acids and cancer.

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qtb1137
thought the answer to the headline was going to be -- "with venture capitalist
dollar"

~~~
qtb1137
thought the answer to the headline was going to be -- "with venture capitalist
dollars"

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dschiptsov
This is rather ironic. Anyone in a developing world would tell you that
malnutrition is exactly what happen due to lack of proteins. But there is no
life outside biology departments of top US universities.

