
Unsafe Lead Levels in Tap Water Not Limited to Flint - DiabloD3
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/09/us/regulatory-gaps-leave-unsafe-lead-levels-in-water-nationwide.html
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staunch
Ancient Romans knew that lead water pipes were unhealthy and so they preferred
terracotta pipes. It's hard to imagine why the U.S. ever had a single lead
water pipe, let alone huge numbers of them.

Updated with a reference for the downvoters:

 _Sheets of lead were used to line Roman aqueducts (as was cement) and lead
pipes to convey water. But lead also was known to be unwholesome and, for that
reason, pipes made of clay were preferred—as Vitruvius, who wrote during the
time of Augustus, explains.

"Water conducted through earthen pipes is more wholesome than that through
lead; indeed that conveyed in lead must be injurious, because from it white
lead [ceruse or lead carbonate, PbCO3] is obtained, and this is said to be
injurious to the human system. Hence, if what is generated from it is
pernicious, there can be no doubt that itself cannot be a wholesome body. This
may be verified by observing the workers in lead, who are of a pallid colour;
for in casting lead, the fumes from it fixing on the different members, and
daily burning them, destroy the vigour of the blood; water should therefore on
no account be conducted in leaden pipes if we are desirous that it should be
wholesome. That the flavour of that conveyed in earthen pipes is better, is
shewn at our daily meals, for all those whose tables are furnished with silver
vessels, nevertheless use those made of earth, from the purity of the flavour
being preserved in them" (VIII.6.10-11)._

[http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/win...](http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/wine/leadpoisoning.html)

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detaro
> _Ancient Romans knew that lead water pipes were unhealthy and so they
> preferred terracotta pipes._

Do you have a source for this? At the same time, they used lead acetate to
sweeten wine and food, which is way more dangerous. If they made the weaker
connection between health and water pipes, they should have been able to
connect health and this as well.

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jcranmer
Read Vitrivius's De Architectura, specifically the part on building aqueducts.
It's basically a manual for "So the Emperor told you to build a city from
scratch…"

As a random aside, he also includes a proof that the water level mechanism he
prefers works even though the Earth is a (roughly) spherical object and not a
flat plane.

~~~
bjelkeman-again
Couldn't find it in the book itself, but it is referenced here.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_architectura#Materials](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_architectura#Materials)

~~~
wasjosh
Seems health and taste both dissuaded use.

 _For when lead is smelted in casting the fumes from it settle upon their
members and day after day burn out and take away all the virtues of the blood
from their limbs Hence water ought by no means to be conducted in lead pipes
if we want to have it wholesome That the taste is better when it comes from
clay pipes may be proved by everyday life for though our tables are loaded
with silver vessels yet everybody uses earthenware for the sake of purity of
taste._

Google books, pg 246 [https://goo.gl/g19bhQ](https://goo.gl/g19bhQ)

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dmm
Nassim Taleb taught me that the absence of known danger is not the same as
safety.

Repeat that to yourself the next time you read your cities water report. It's
not "I know my water is safe" it's "I know I don't face these specific
dangers. What else could be in the water that they don't test for?"

Look into reverse osmosis.

~~~
overcast
Drinking distilled water is not a good idea, which is basically what reverse
osmosis gives you stripping out essential minerals. It's also an incredibly
wasteful 4:1 process.

Look into three stage filtering, that's all you need.

~~~
ohthanks
Carbon filtration will not remove dissolved solids (lead, heavy metals)
without added ion-exchange resins. RO is generally the most effective broad
spectrum treatment method for drinking water.

The mineral issue is pretty much bunk, if the lack of trace minerals in your
water is a concern you need to see a doctor. Food is your body's preferred
source of minerals, you have to drink _a lot_ to have much effect on your
daily mineral intake.

The waste water is real, 4 to 1 is about average, it can be improved but it's
pretty unavoidable in the process. They are water using appliances, we use
20-40 gallons of water to wash a load of clothes and most people don't think
twice about it.

~~~
prions
I'm a water treatment engineer. Carbon filtration will remove dissolved solids
and heavy metals, and with high efficiency if done correctly. Most GAC columns
designed to remove lead and heavy metals are enriched with sulfide ions to
increase the removal efficiency as well. People prefer to use ion exchange
resins to remove heavy metals because they can be regenerated more easily and
efficiently. Also ion exchange resins allow you to recover any absorbed
minerals.

[http://ascelibrary.org/doi/10.1061/%28ASCE%290733-9372%28199...](http://ascelibrary.org/doi/10.1061/%28ASCE%290733-9372%281994%29120%3A2%28416%29)

~~~
raddad
Carbon filtration doesn't remove fluoride, does it? (Or arsenic) The only
water filtration system I have found that removes fluoride is the Berkey
brand. I've not seen any filtration systems in the stores even mentioning
fluoride or arsenic.

Berkey filters [http://bit.ly/1WdBneq](http://bit.ly/1WdBneq) (Edit to add
arsenic and Berkey link)

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mc32
If it's a wider problem than just Flint, why isn't it being presented as such
by and large in the media and by politicians? Is it because that's where the
political shenanigans were caught first, when will it get addressed as the
more wide-spread problem it appears to be? Or is it more like an opportunist
PR stunt [i.e. "we care a lot about..."] or the issue du jour which they'll
abandon after they "address" Flint?

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minikites
Flint was 100% avoidable and motivated by greed.

~~~
fennecfoxen
100% avoidable, yes. _Motivated by greed?_ No, by indifference. No decision-
maker here made a decision about the water supply in order to make money off
of it.

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alanwatts
If it was not to make money, then it was to save money due to increasing
budget constraints. Allowing the poisoning of the water supply due to budget
constraints is some third world shit.

~~~
gozur88
They didn't realize what would happen. The Flint River water is safe to drink
- it only becomes unsafe when you run it through lead pipes.

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alanwatts
Then why did they choose to use lead pipes?

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gozur88
Because it's cheap, easy to work with, and tends to deform under stress
instead of breaking.

These were old pipes - they pre-date this problem by decades.

~~~
alanwatts
Did they know that they were lead pipes before they decided to start using
them?

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DanBC
Water companies should be measuring the quality of the water going into the
pipes, but they also need to sample the water that comes out of the pipes -
they need to collect samples coming out of people's faucets.

~~~
alanwatts
Sad that such an obvious thing needs to be stated.

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kevindeasis
My hardware guy and I are building fun weekend projects.

What raspberry pi sensors can you use to figure out if our water is polluted,
etc.

It should be noticeable, I'm just asking for basic testing. Nothing too crazy.

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fennecfoxen
You're thinking inside a rather small box here with the Raspberry Pi angle.
Usually detecting harmful chemicals dissolved in water involves running some
chemical reactions that consume their reagents, not just some reusable
electronics.

There's a reason the kits are like this, instead of an electronic device:
[http://www.amazon.com/First-Alert-WT1-Drinking-
Water/dp/B000...](http://www.amazon.com/First-Alert-WT1-Drinking-
Water/dp/B000FBMAVQ/)

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voltagex_
If I travel to the US (Let's say Los Angeles, Seattle and New York) how do I
know if the tap water is safe to drink? In the EU I normally just ask a local.
In Germany it's safe to drink but in the Czech Republic you might be better
off drinking bottled water (last time I checked was ~10 years ago, sorry if
it's changed).

~~~
akg_67
Default to not drinking from taps directly. I live in Seattle. We only use tap
water after filtering with a Brita Filter for drinking and cooking. When we
are outside home, we either bring filtered water with us or buy bottled water.
At restaurants, if in doubt we ask if water is directly from tap.

Since the flint lead news, I have been exploring how can I get my tap water
tested on a routine.

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serge2k
Ridiculous. First off, evidence that Seattle water is unsafe?

Second, brita is useless
[http://www.naturalnews.com/046536_water_filters_heavy_metals...](http://www.naturalnews.com/046536_water_filters_heavy_metals_lab_results.html)

~~~
datashaman
you're using 'natural news' as a source? this is one of the worst sites on the
internet, literally riddled with unproven BS.

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tn13
You can cheap water testing kits on amazon which you can use. Also not water
is 100% safe and it makes a lot of sense to diversify the water sources. We
use tap water for cooking, bottled water from different brands at home and
workplace. That probably is good enough.

I have tested water at home for lead and pesticides and found it to be safe to
drink. [Sunnyvale]

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such_a_casual
Google says 45% of bottled water is just tap water. I will never understand
this phenomena.

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im3w1l
As I currently don't have a Soda Stream, I'd pay for sparkling tap water. I
don't think sparkling water can explain all those percentage points, but maybe
some of them?

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nommm-nommm
That is actually just referring to regular old non-carbonated water, not
sparkling water (or as we call it around here, seltzer).

