
What does it feel like to be fired from Google? - kawera
https://www.quora.com/What-does-it-feel-like-to-be-fired-from-Google?share=1
======
tomcam
The reason I work for myself is that I figured out at an early age that no one
cares about your job more than you do. I have been fired from plenty of jobs,
so I made sure I had a nest egg as soon as possible. I also make it a point to
train for my next job while I'm doing the current one. I have worked at some
good jobs (Microsoft was life changing in a completely positive sense) but
being so dependent on someone else seems for your livelihood never seemed like
a sustainable proposition.

------
fredkbloggs
This seems like a pretty silly question, and the answers reinforce that.
Getting fired by Google is like getting fired anywhere else. One of the
commenters mentioned that it's harder to explain a short term at Google to
prospective employers, but realistically anyone is going to understand that
sometimes a particular job or team just doesn't work out regardless of the
company's reputation.

So really this seems like asking what it's like to be kicked in the face by
Linus Torvalds. Sure, he's famous, but it feels pretty much the same as being
kicked in the face by anyone else.

~~~
hga
_One of the commenters mentioned that it 's harder to explain a short term at
Google to prospective employers, but realistically anyone is going to
understand that sometimes a particular job or team just doesn't work out
regardless of the company's reputation._

Any employer who doesn't understand that closed allocation will not
infrequently result in this is probably to be avoided. Worst story I remember
as related on HN, but my search fu is not able to find it, was a hardware
engineer who was also good at programming and Python. He was put on a team
writing Python hardware testing code, and because he found out, as is related
by many others (and at many other companies) that the policy of immediate
transfers is often fictional, he had to quit to avoid ending his career.

------
markbnj
I hope things have worked out for the author, but I can't help thinking he
would have been so much better off leaving on his own terms. I understand not
being able to walk away from a salary, but when you get to the point where you
know your attitude and the job are no longer a fit, and you stay for the
money, then I guess you own the outcome on that.

~~~
PieSquared
The author has some commentary on that here:

[https://www.quora.com/What-does-it-feel-like-to-be-fired-
fro...](https://www.quora.com/What-does-it-feel-like-to-be-fired-from-
Google/answer/Grigory-Yakushev/comment/13822008)

I found it pretty interesting.

~~~
bsimpson
Sounds like Swiss law on both immigration and unemployment gave him a pretty
strong incentive to stay for as long as possible.

~~~
markbnj
That's understandable, but I guess if you're staying for that reason the title
of the article might better have been "What it feels like to finally get fired
from Google after a couple of years of barely hanging on to my job."

------
pen2l

        So I was formally employed and received salary for 
        another month, although I didn't and couldn't work 
        during it. Google also produced a stellar reference 
        letter for future employers, without mentioning any 
        of this.
    

_Woah_.

That's pretty respectable. Mad props to Google for going the extra mile to not
destroy people's careers.

~~~
volaski
"In private discussions I was asked why don't I leave by myself, to which I
answered that I'm happy with my Google salary. "

He basically stopped working, and when asked why stay and take the huge salary
from google when he's not working he said he's satisfied with the salary, and
he was given plenty of opportunities. No wonder his managers didn't like him.
There are tons of other more competent people who make the same salary as him
working hard. It's not a matter of whether the company treats people like a
"resource" or not. If I had a guy on my team who doesn't work at all and
sticks around AND is proud of it for some reason I would be pissed. I'm sure
not just his manager but all other colleagues probably would have been super
pissed if he acted like he described in the answer.

For some reason everyone on the thread is talking like Google is in the wrong
and he's being noble for sharing it non-anonymously, but I don't really get
what's so noble about this. If I was that burned out, I would have asked for a
hiatus. And even after that if I can't focus, I would still try hard, and when
asked why I don't just leave, I would take that as a sign and leave. I would
definitely not say "I'm happy with my Google salary". Normal people don't feel
OK with taking someone else's money while not doing anything, and "being
burned out" is not an excuse.

~~~
jkot
Why do you assume he stopped working? He could be working harder than ever,
but his productivity dropped.

Also quitting a job is not always an option, there are implications on
unemployment support, health insurance etc.. Some people even face a jail, if
they quit their job.

~~~
PopeOfNope
_Why do you assume he stopped working? He could be working harder than ever,
but his productivity dropped._

That's one of the cruelties of burnout. It feels like you're working harder
than you ever have in your life, but you have nothing to show for it.

------
Johnny555
"Apparently my manager and director decided that I was somehow gaming the
system and just milk the company while not making any effort to do my job"

"In private discussions I was asked why don't I leave by myself, to which I
answered that I'm happy with my Google salary. If Google is not happy with my
performance - feel free to fire me, but I'm not going to jump myself."

Well, at least the managers read his attitude accurately.

~~~
ido
That's not how I read it. I think the guy wasn't "not making any effort to do
[his] job", he was burnt out and tried to make the effort but failed.

His reply is not surprising from a Russian perspective (in broad strokes
Russian discussion culture is extremely...let's say "honest", to the point of
appearing crass or blunt to western ears) & does not mean "I don't give a shit
as long as I get money".

I read it as "if you want to fire me, do so", and I don't think that's too bad
(as in this case the appropriate response really is firing - not asking the
guy to quit).

~~~
wwwater
This is an interesting view on russian discussion culture. How did you come to
this conclusion?

~~~
ido
My mother was born in the former Soviet Union and I have a lot of relatives
and friends that immigrated from Russia and nearby countries (Ukraine,
Moldova, Belarus) that share some similarities in culture.

My hometown was also originally founded by Russian immigrants and has a large
minority (~30% I think) of people of Russian descent.

------
tomrod
The first comment (from Grigory Yakushev) makes the process seem really
humane.

~~~
Leynos
Bear in mind that Grigory is describing his experience in Switzerland
(confirmed in a response to a comment: [https://www.quora.com/What-does-it-
feel-like-to-be-fired-fro...](https://www.quora.com/What-does-it-feel-like-to-
be-fired-from-Google/answer/Grigory-Yakushev/comment/13822008)), so this might
not be the same as elsewhere.

~~~
PopeOfNope
I went through almost the exact same thing working full time for a consulting
company in the USA. The situation was even worse since we had to log so many
hours a week due to billing hourly. The biggest difference with me is that
when I was first put on the PIP, it looked like I was going to successfully
complete it. So a 4 week process was extended to 12 and then I was given a new
PIP that was impossible to fulfill[0] and the micromanagement was increased to
ridiculous levels. I didn't even try to improve at that point and was fired a
week later. No severance, no benefits, no nothing. They were nice in that they
gave a glowing recommendation that didn't mention any of this. They said we
parted ways amicably and that it just wasn't a good fit.

It seems the recurring theme here is if your employees are slacking, more
micromanagement isn't the answer. Either give them a reason to get excited
about coming to work or fire them. The PIP process is an orwellian farce. The
only saving grace is I bet most companies that use them don't actually know
they don't work. Or maybe it's like interviewing; they know it doesn't work,
but they don't have anything better?

[0]: I won't go into details, but it required getting two or three approvals
per day from managers who were already backed up with work.

------
everyone
5 commits a week is normal?

Im going to assume those are _big_ commits.. I personally would do a commit
for every little class or method I write. I did 18 last week for example.

Also I'm curious what he means by 'burnout' I'd take that to mean mentally
exhausted from too much stress. Sounds like he was more vaguely dissatisfied
or unmotivated.

~~~
nostrademons
On the high side, actually.

In many cases you'll need to get your code reviewed by an external team, and
oftentimes their SLA for _one_ round of code review is 24 hours. That a.)
incentivizes big commits and b.) sets a floor on the latency of your commit
process.

My long-term average at Google was 5 commits/week, max was IIRC 24/week, and
min was 3 months to get _one_ commit written, reviewed, and approved. By
contrast, when I'm coding on my own for my startup, my long-term average is 20
commits/week, max was about 14/ _day_ , and min is about 1/day.

------
bko
I think its really unfair to the rest of the team to have dead weight. I
understand that it was in his best interest to ride it out as long as he can
and try and claim benefits and I can't say for certain what I would have done,
but that behavior is really abusing the safety net. He should have tried and
find a different role.

> In my particular case (Switzerland), I lose three months of unemployment
> benefits (80% of salary x3) if I do, and there may be other reasons as well
> (in my case - work permit). This has nothing to do with responsibility: why
> should I sacrifice my personal interest and the interests of my family for
> the interest of the company, as a parting gift? I see no reason to do so.

Was generous unemployment really designed for ex-Googlers who were burned out
and forced the hand of management to fire them? IMO, it's pretty sleazy and
hopefully sends a bad signal to future employers.

~~~
tajen
You must be new to Europe. </sarcasm> I confirm that employment laws in France
and in that country (Switzerland), if not other countries, are particularly
prone for abuse, and the culture is to fully exert the employee's interest. If
you quit a job, you may not be entitled for unemployment at all, whereas being
dismissed gives you 2 years of 80% benefits.

Most French startups are built on ACCRE: The unemployed asks for a lumpsum
instead of monthly benefits at the condition that he creates a company. You
can't get it if you quit your last job, so the game for entrepreneurs is to be
as disrespectful as legally possible with an employer (e.g. liberally start
working on the new company or poaching clients, as long as it's not
forbidden), get fired, and create a startup. It makes the ACCRE the #2 source
of funding for startups in France (after CIR, another public benefit, but
that's a story for another day).

Such schemes mean the startup is created months and months after the opening
of the market opportunity; after months of being a bad employee; and out of
public benefits. To my opinion it's inefficient on all 3 facets. But that's
how the old continent runs.

~~~
bko
I've heard that the system in Europe is very "friendly" to workers, but that
seems absurd. To me its not even so much the inefficiency, but the general
hostile relationship it creates between employee and employer. It probably
contributes to the high level of youth unemployment in some European
countries. Worse of all, such perverse incentives result in cultural shifts as
to whats acceptable. To think that someone readily admits that he would be
willing to sabotage his workplace due to a sense of entitlement of 2 years
with 80% benefits is really appalling. This isn't some out of work layman,
replaced by technology. This is a highly skilled knowledge worker making
probably an income probably in the 95 percentile of his country. Just because
you can exploit something doesn't make it okay.

------
xkiwi
"Quora is a knowledge-sharing community that depends on everyone being able to
pitch in when they know something."

I just cannot stand with Quora keep asking me to continue with Facebook or
google. If majority of users in Quora are based on people who obey
dictatorship from Quora, then probably it is not the place for true knowledge.

~~~
gcb0
quora is extremely annoying.

i always get a link like this one, read something, then any link i click i get
to some crippled page instead of the content and some bad ui that doesn't even
make it clear what weird ritual they expect to show the content.

~~~
mikez302
Adblock seems to block that annoying overlay that covers the page. You can
also get rid of it by copying and pasting the following line into your
browser's web console or debugger:

(function(){var
x=document.querySelector("[id$=modal_signup_wrapper]");x.parentNode.removeChild(x)})();

~~~
gcb0
i never saw that... i only see the page with missing content... maybe they
host js from some domain i blacklisted then.

------
mahouse
>Apparently my manager and director decided that I was somehow gaming the
system and just milk the company while not making any effort to do my job.

>I think the nasty attitude from manager and director was unnecessary: it
sucks when superiors don't trust you, treating me as a liar without saying it
explicitly.

...

>In private discussions I was asked why don't I leave by myself, to which I
answered that I'm happy with my Google salary.

~~~
fao_
IANAL, but that seems like it should fall under 'Constructive Dismissal'.

~~~
hackerboos
Different laws in Switzerland.

------
gaius
This is what happens when you treat humans as resources.

~~~
jakejake
I wonder if you would mind if your boss got burned out writing pay checks and
decided he/she needed a break from writing them for a while? Meeting payroll
is a stress that can be so huge, it will make you yearn for the day when you
could just write code and wait for your paycheck to come from the magical
paycheck tree.

Obviously no middle manager is feeling that specific stress at Google, but the
higher up you go the more your issues and stresses involve keeping the company
afloat.

~~~
gaius
Sorry, you think any manager at _Google_ worries about making payroll??

The guy was ill, he should have been put on sick leave not a "performance
improvement plan".

~~~
volaski
Yeah you're right, that's what _he_ should have done. Why would a company
voluntarily put someone on a sick leave? There are even legal implications for
this. Think about it for a moment. I'm sure a company like Google would have
given him a (maybe paid, maybe unpaid) sick leave for reasonable amount of
time if he had asked. Instead he stuck around, didn't do work, and told the
manager he wants to stay because he's "satisfied with the salary". Imagine
you're his coworker, working your ass off while this guy proudly doesn't do
shit and still makes the same money as you.

~~~
gaius
Do you not think maybe with burnout or depression, he may not be thinking
straight? A manager is supposed to have people skills. Instead they treated
him like a malfunctioning machine. Just normal American management culture
perhaps, but it doesn't play well in more enlightened countries.

~~~
jakejake
Maybe you should keep your enlightened racist attitude to yourself.

------
known
If the company is making MONEY your job is safe; If not, management will find
101 reasons to SACK you;

