

Coffee shops are taking Wi-Fi off the menu - extantproject
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-cafe-wifi-20100808,0,2492467.story

======
ben1040
A coffee shop I use gives you an hour of internet access with any purchase.
They have a router with an attached thermal printer. The clerk hits a button,
and prints a receipt with a password that lets you on for exactly one hour
from then.

I see no problem at all with this. At the very worst, you're paying a couple
bucks for internet access and getting a free cup of coffee or muffin out of
it. If you're going to spend four hours there, I don't think it's asking too
much for you to make a purchase every hour or so.

~~~
mikeyur
I feel guilty if I don't buy something at least once an hour.

I've had lunch with the President of a fair-sized coffee franchise in Canada
and his stores give you a 1hr code with your purchase, but after that you can
just go up and ask for codes each time they expire. He said 80-90% of people
feel guilty and fork up another $3-5 for a drink/snack when they ask for a new
WiFi code.

Other interesting tidbit: coffee sales are down a lot compared with tea (which
also has higher margins). So if you run a coffee shop, a good way to
distinguish yourself is to carry a wide variety of teas.

~~~
c1sc0
Tea is _hot_ right now, no pun intended. A few months ago I did a bit of
market research for doing a tea-based startup. If anyone wants to do it,
there's money to be made by simply blogging about exotic niche tea products,
especially because most people drink absolutely garbage tea: there's room for
education here.

------
MartinCron
A subject near and dear to my heart. I'm in Seattle, the coffee capital of the
country. I've created a very comprehensive photo collection of paper cups from
indie coffee shops (
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/martincron/sets/721576066520024> ) and recently,
I've found that I just can't bring myself to work from coffee shops anymore.

I tried for a few months to spend one day every week working away from my
office, just to shake things up and to get some uninterrupted programming
time. I just don't like the feeling of being some kind of freeloader.

I never felt right working through the entire day at one shop, so I would hit
up one shop in the morning, have lunch, and then go to another. After a while,
ordering beverages felt like a chore. Another americano? Bleh. Mint tea? Meh,
I guess so.

The other part is that there's value to the whole "third place" concept; where
home is place #1, work is place #2, and community is place #3. If you work
from a coffee shop, it makes it harder to actually relax and enjoy the coffee
shop later. Also, it's harder to actually relax and enjoy the coffee shop when
it's filled with people on their laptops all day. There are a handful of
places I don't bother going to because it's so difficult to find a place to
sit (Greelake Zoka, for example).

What I really want to do is find a good co-working space to be my "second
place". I signed up at one last month, but they kind of fell apart. Any
Seattle area HN folks have experience with local co-working spaces?

~~~
aaronbrethorst
I work at 15th Ave Coffee and Tea during the day (it's the original Crypto-
Starbucks in Capitol Hill) and Liberty during the evening.

Actually, I'm sitting at Liberty right now while I wait for Xcode to deploy an
iPhone app to my phone.

You should check out Liberty: couches, free wifi, sushi and great cocktails.
You'll suffer diminishing returns on work, but it's still worth it :)

Back to your question, have you tried Office Nomads? A good friend of mine has
a 'resident' membership there and loves it to death. I'm considering trying it
out this week.

~~~
MartinCron
I'm going to be trying Office Nomads, probably next month. I like the idea of
setting up as a resident, but I'm having trouble justifying the expense.

~~~
aaronbrethorst
Likewise. $450 is a good chunk of cash, but at least the first taste is free.
On the plus side of things, there are definitely some interesting characters
who work there, like Kevin Moore (<http://kevinmooreconsulting.com/>)

~~~
MartinCron
I really shouldn't be too put off by the $450 (and the commute from Ballard to
Capitol Hill). If I can be just a little more productive, it will be worth it,
and the chance to work with interesting characters like Kevin Moore sounds
great.

Maybe I'll see you there.

~~~
railsjedi
Had the same issues as you. Working from Cherry Street Coffee shop for a few
weeks got old.

I'm currently working out of Office Nomads (just started 2 weeks ago). It's a
pretty good atmosphere, I recommend it.

------
jakarta
I actually prefer to work in libraries. Sometimes coffee shops are just too
loud and the facilities at libraries are better.

For example, the NY SIBL has Aeron chairs and free wifi! Plus there is a
starbucks next door for you to buy coffee from. What's not to love about that?

~~~
fmora
If they added coffee shops in libraries and made it a more social place I
would be so there. I go to coffee shops or Barnes & Noble for the atmosphere.
People humming around me, having their conversations, laughing with their
friends, really helps me to concentrate on my work. Right now libraries are
just plain depressing. They should probably stake out a section just for
people to sit down to read their books along with their coffee and another
section for those that want/need 100% quiet. Right now you would have to put a
gun on my head for me to even come close to one. No offense to you or anybody
who likes libraries but in my mind going to a library is equal to being old
and decrepit and devoid of any passion.

It kind of makes me glad that libraries are dying.

~~~
nostromo
Wow, where do you live? I have spent a ton of time in Seattle's, San
Francisco's, and New York's public libraries, and all are fantastic.

Seattle's is by far the best though. Free, fast WiFi, good coffee stand _in_
the library, helpful librarians, outlets galore, amazing architecture and an
enforced no-sleeping policy (this helps keep it a place of work and learning,
and not a homeless shelter, of which Seattle has plenty for those in need).

You can get great DVDs and books for free, and reserve them online if they're
unavailable. It's basically Netflix for free.

The Business Library on 34th in NYC and the main library in SF at Civic Center
are also pretty good.

In general, I think you have an outdated view of modern libraries. However, it
could just be that you live in a city where all of what you said is true, in
which case, talk to your local government and get it fixed!

~~~
njharman
Use to live a couple blocks from Seattle's main library. Had serious library
withdrawal when I moved away.

~~~
aaronbrethorst
where did you live around there? I didn't know there were any apartments or
condos in the vicinity.

~~~
njharman
It is one of the last, stuck between hotels. Lived in that corner,
<http://bit.ly/aOlo0q> 6th and Marion

~~~
aaronbrethorst
oh, i totally forgot about that building. i dated a girl about 3 lifetimes ago
who lived there.

------
aaronbrethorst
So charge the freeloaders $30 or $40 a month for unfettered wifi access.
Everyone wins. I don't get it...

Seriously, I can't imagine it would be a ton of work to set up a RADIUS-type
server that would limit a given MAC address to an hour of access per day (I'm
sure some products like Meraki's already have this or something similar). If
the user wants to squeeze more time out of the wifi, they have to pony up.

I'm totally one of the people described in this article, except that I'm doing
it in Seattle. If the cafe I went to every day wanted to charge me for taking
up a seat for hours at a time, I'd happily pay them a monthly fee. It's
cheaper than getting an office or joining a coworking space, after all.

~~~
megablast
You are correct. Why aren't coffee shop owners programming their own servers
and setting up firewalls, can't be that different to making a coffee, or
serving a cake?

Sure, your idea might work, but the cafe owners aren't aware of that, or don't
want to outlay more money. Much easier to go back to the old way of doing
things. Hey, maybe this could be a business for someone, go around offering
your service to help these guys out.

~~~
dangoldin
I see a startup in the making. Providing the simple hardware/software for
anyone who wants to set up wifi access.

~~~
kiba
Can someone pretty please provide outlet for my computer? I'll be willing to
pay for the electricity.

~~~
fmora
Just buy two extra battery packs or a portable power supply that you can fit
in your backpack.

------
derefr
I don't think it matters much—everyone who cares about mobile net access now
has a 3G connection somewhere on their person, either directly in their
browsing device or tethered to it.

~~~
NathanKP
However, removing the power plugs will matter slightly. Running on batteries
my Macbook can only get about four hours of browsing time at 50% screen
brightness. Taking away the power plugs will keep people from camping out in
the coffee shops all day long.

------
fmora
I do this from time to time, i.e. camp out at a barnes & noble bookstore for
more than 6 hours. Once I was even there around 9 hours. Don't really care for
wifi but I do need the power plugs. However, if they were to remove that then
I would probably just carry a portable power supply in my back pack or extra
set of computer batteries. Two would suffice for me. My problem would be
though if they actually kicked me out. At least I do have a backup, Borders is
right next to Barnes & Nobles. Although Borders is not doing so great
financially so it may not be a backup for long. I wonder if it will have a
negative effect in the long run if they become hostile to people that just
love to hang out there. Who knows, it may just be a necessary evil.

------
LarrySDonald
I can see where free wifi could be a drain on resources. If someone wants to
rent an air conditioned/heated cubicle space with a 300w power and open wifi
for $2/5 hours.. go for it. I can't quite see the economics in that, but I'm
sure prices vary. If people use it like an average human (read the
boards/news, check email, surf a bit while having your morning coffee) it's
great. When some are turning it into a much more pricey proposition a lot of
customers won't want to pay $7-$10 for the coffee you have to charge when they
weren't going to sit there all day anyway. Libraries rock for this, which is
also incidentally what they are for - free info, silence and breathing room to
those who can't set it up themselves.

------
matwood
I know the owner of the local coffee shop I go to. His internet is locked, but
he gives out the code to any customer who asks. I've talked to him before
about giving away internet and he didn't seem to think it was a big deal. As
long as he has people in his store he's happy because they will eventually buy
something. He also has book readings on the weekends and recently started
staying open later hoping to catch kids who need to study now that school is
cranking back up. Last time I talked to him he said the night time thing was
doing better than he expected.

He is a bit more expensive than the chains, but his coffee also doesn't taste
like crap :)

------
johnwatson11218
It seems like starbucks just reversed this. I used to have to use a registered
starbucks cards and was supposed to only get 1 hour a day ( it never cut me
off though). However recently I noticed that all the starbucks in my area have
gone to free wifi. Just accept the terms and conditions and you're set.

~~~
matwood
Yeah, they just made that change a month or two ago. I'm going to guess that
they figured out they were losing business to either smaller chains or mom and
pop stores who were offering free internet.

~~~
vl
Yep, I stopped going to Starbucks because coffee shop block away has free
WiFi.

------
elai
Airports that limit wifi access are really annoying (like the one in kuala
lumpur at KLIA for 2 hours), especially when you have a long lay over.

------
jacobbijani
And all the places that never bothered installing routers in the first place
rejoice as they look progressive.

------
nostromo
3G iPad to the rescue!

I actually have been using the iPad in coffee shops to catch up on email or
read a technical PDF and have found that it's a much better feel than taking
up a whole table with a big keyboard and looking for an outlet.

Of course for programming and the like I still need to be home with a real
machine.

------
dotcoma
drink more fuckin' coffee instead of masturbating with twitter

~~~
ScottWhigham
lol - I loved this comment but I'm clearly in the minority.

~~~
jpeterson
Reddit is that way --->

~~~
Raphael
I wasn't aware of any particular spatial orientation for websites.

