
Texas Battlefield 3 launch LAN bans women from attending - Total_Meltdown
http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=5811
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Udo
> women are disallowed from attending in order to protect them from
> misogynistic insults

Fundamentalist religious societies often use the same line of reasoning: women
are not allowed to walk around unveiled or allowed to do pretty much anything
because they are powerless and ostensibly have to be protected from society as
much as society needs to be protected from the unrest their public presence
causes. The deeper "logic" here is that women are held responsible for the
abuse they are provoking just by being around, and also that they're somehow
not mature enough to handle themselves.

This is exactly the same reasoning as banning, say, black people on the
grounds that they might cause unrest among KKK attendees who might be present.

In one line: this is the most insultingly stupid thing ever and it's happening
not only in Texas but all over the world. I just wish it didn't happen in so-
called free societies at all.

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gaius
So long as there are women-only gyms, scholarships, etc this argument falls a
little flat. In other words, you can't have your cake and eat it.

~~~
cmeranda
You could actually perceive women-only gyms and scholarships as a response to
events such as this. How would you react to being told your presence caused
bad behavior, and so you'd been disallowed? Why, you'd create a space from
whence you couldn't be removed--by making yourself the only entity. However,
that's not to say it is an ideal solution. Also, I've never really understood
that aphorism, "Can't have your cake and eat it." WTF was the point of giving
me the damn cake if I can't eat it?

~~~
div
Once you eat your cake, you no longer have it. Hence, you can't have your cake
and eat it.

~~~
cmeranda
I suppose that's a temporal difference...you had it, then you ate it. It
appears that both things are possible, given sufficient duration and stomach.

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NickPollard
As far as I can tell, this is not in anyway affiliated with or sponsored by EA
or DICE. Is that correct?

Just want to make sure people don't automatically leap on the BF3 link and
blame the publisher or developer, when this appears to be a privately run
event.

~~~
NathanKP
From what I can see it looks like the event is being put on by an online forum
called Powers Gaming. It also appears that because of the backlash they
deleted their old information thread about the party, and recreated it today
with nothing but a "Coming Soon" message.

Old thread:
[http://www.powersgaming.com/showthread.php?742-Battlefield-3...](http://www.powersgaming.com/showthread.php?742-Battlefield-3-Launch-
Party-INFORMATION)

New thread:
[http://www.powersgaming.com/showthread.php?785-Battlefield-3...](http://www.powersgaming.com/showthread.php?785-Battlefield-3-Launch-
Party-INFORMATION)

If I was EA or DICE I would not be happy with this negative buzz about the
game, especially as it makes BF3 players look pretty bad. (Or at least this
group of them.)

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Ronkdar
How exactly does one get into a launch party? Because if they're letting in 15
year-olds, sure there's going to be spiteful words. I always pictured these
sorts of things having more mature crowds, but maybe I'm wrong.

My strategy, instead of excluding women, would be to make it a 21+ event (or
maybe 18+), as well as kicking out anybody who doesn't abide by decency
standards.

~~~
rick888
"kicking out anybody who doesn't abide by decency standards."

I think they probably figured out that that would mean kicking 99% of the LAN
party out.

~~~
dlikhten
Are women incapable of understanding that people can be a-holes especially in
an unregulated "sporting" competition? Lots of a-holes out there. Just put a
warning, let women know, and offer advice if necessary. This is just plain ol'
wrong.

It's EA so I'm already boycotting it. :P

~~~
rick888
I think they are fully capable of understanding. But I can guess that the LAN
party probably gets tons of complaints regarding assholes and women every year
and just decided to put a stop to it.

Just look at a site like Reddit (which probably is the same demographic as a
LAN party). As soon as a women appears, the assholes come out.

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yummyfajitas
We already have a nontrivial number of women only events in technology. What's
wrong with a men only event?

~~~
cosgroveb
Because the only reason they are doing this is because they can't be bothered
to force their male attendees to adhere to a standard of common decency. They
would rather remove the need for them to be good human beings. Also it is
tantamount to blaming women for the men's behavior.

It is not uncommon for minorities in any group to be encouraged to show
solidarity (women only events in tech for instance) while the same is frowned
upon for the privileged majority.

~~~
yummyfajitas
On the contrary, they are doing this because their female attendees have been
(in the past) intolerant of the culture of computer gaming. Trash talk is not
bad behavior - it's an equally valid form of expression used primarily in
certain subcultures (basketball among black men, gaming).

This sort of behavior, particularly when used in what should otherwise be a
safe space for a minority group traditionally excluded from society (young
male gamers), serves only to exclude and already disadvantaged group.

Incidentally, do you also believe black men playing basketball (who often use
language similar to gamers) are also bad human beings?

~~~
cosgroveb
Your example, "black men playing basketball" are a homogeneous group by virtue
of your definition. Their trash talk, again, _by definition_ can't consist of
one group disparaging another using slurs... I hope you like the slam-dunk of
setting up a straw man and knocking it down.

~~~
yummyfajitas
Ok, let me rephrase. A group which is _majority_ black men playing basketball
will, under many circumstances, engage in racial ("cracker", "wetback" or
"nigger" - whatever fits) and non-racial ("yo momma") smack talk.

(Note: not a hypothetical.)

Are they bad human beings for doing so?

~~~
qeorge
I strongly object to your characterization of black men. I've played pick-up
and organized basketball with people of all races for > 15 years and this has
not been my experience.

Honestly, it sounds like you don't play basketball, and certainly not with
said "black men". I recommend trying it - I think it would change your mind.

~~~
yummyfajitas
I am speaking from personal experience, nothing more. I've played pickup on
many occasions with lower middle class black men.

Also interesting to note: in my experience, in a mixed race group (e.g., in
grad school), the smack talk will be toned down. The lone black guy will tone
it down to fit in, just as I amp it up when I'm the lone white guy.

Lastly, please note: I'm not trying to portray trash talk as anything other
than a harmless cultural practice which outsiders can be intolerant of.

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justathought
Is this immature and inconsiderate of women and does it reflect poorly on the
LAN? Absolutely. Are they within their right to do so? Absolutely.

People get up in arms about stuff like this because they're offended that
people would so boldly exclude someone, but the key here is that it's a
private event. Don't like it? Don't support them. Or, create your own private
event with any rules you see fit.

As a nonreligious white male, I'm also excluded from minority scholarships,
many religious private colleges, jobs with many religious organizations, being
a waiter at Hooters, and plenty of other social groups, simply because of my
personal beliefs or race or gender.

Women also can't join the Augusta National Golf Club (home of the Masters) for
similar reasons as this, but I don't see that on the frontpage of HN.

~~~
nate_meurer
> "it's a private event. Don't like it? Don't support them."

This is a classic refrain of apologists for bigotry. I belong to a country
club that officially excluded blacks up until the 60's, and did so
unofficially for years after. The policy changed under pressure from the
community, which included bad publicity, public embarrassment, and disdain
directed at individual club members from people on the outside. Public scorn
for the organization prevailed over the objections of assholes who said, "it's
a private organization! Go make your own country club!".

Eventually, Augusta may repent of gender discrimination due to similar
pressure. And it still won't make the front page of HN because it has nothing
to do with computers.

~~~
icebraining
I think that's the point: using _social_ pressure instead of legal. Parent's
statement - it being a private event - does not necessarily conflict with
embarrassing and disdaining the members.

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cosgroveb
Let's also ban anyone with darker skin from attending because we know that the
typical gamer can't help but use the "N" word too. Brilliant reasoning.

Edit: Did anyone downvoting me bother to read the article? This is exactly the
reasoning they are using to ban women from this event.

~~~
aberkowitz
You probably got downvoted because you repeated the article and didn't add
anything. I come to comment threads for original discussion.

~~~
cosgroveb
I added an illustrative analogy that wasn't in the original article. Maybe it
was too obvious? Thanks for the feedback.

Edit: Since we're getting pretty deep in the comments here and the timer is in
effect... To joshuacc: I did miss that line. Looks like the parent here is
right I didn't add anything to the discussion. Thanks!

~~~
joshuacc
Perhaps you missed this in the original article:

 _I wonder if this party would so outwardly ban any black gamers from
registering. Because it would be so, you know, uncomfortable to hear them
being insulted._

~~~
cosgroveb
You're absolutely right, I did miss that line when I read the original
article.

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andreyf
_It basically is saying that the organizers either don’t want to put the
effort into policing language at their event, or don’t trust the men to be
mature and responsible enough to adhere to event policies._

I'm not sure if "or" is the right word there...

