
'I stole £30,000 from my mum to make millions' - gadders
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47156317
======
maceurt
Somehow, I don't think this is a good thing to be promoting. How many times do
people make risks like this and fail? If I stole a million dollars from a
family member and spent it on lottery tickets and won would that make me
right? It is also pretty disrespectful to your parent to not even ask them for
the money first.

~~~
mbrumlow
I think whoever you stole the money from might have a strong case of owning
the ticket and taking the entire lot.

Maybe I am getting old, because I keep seeing articles written glorifying
doing bad things. Such as this and sneaking into paid venues -- because "mhy
fun" and "stick it to the man" without realizing that people following even
the most simple of the rules is what makes any society work.

~~~
coldtea
> _people following even the most simple of the rules is what makes any
> society work._

And some people breaking those rules is what makes society tolerable.

~~~
derp_dee_derp
Where is the line?

Breaking into concerts?

Breaking into homes?

Assault?

Murder?

Assassinating politicians?

Overthrowing elected governments?

People breaking rules is what makes society collapse.

~~~
coldtea
There's no hard line. All of those things, at different times, can be hugely
beneficial and take society forward.

Many revolutions involved assault and murder (from the French Revolution to
Cromwell).

May 68 was all about "overthrowing elected governments".

In the punk era "breaking into concerts" was routine -- and a way for poorer
kids to afford seeing some bands they liked.

(There's a very nice scene in Cinema Paradiso for how kids/teenagers would
also break/sneak/into cinemas to watch the film free -- or watch more adult
films, a huge part of the old Italian culture, also common in other European
countries).

~~~
mbrumlow
So what I hear is if you are poor, then it is okay?

Could the poor kids not have mowed lawns, or done handy work around where they
live to be able to save up money to buy the ticket properly?

But even so, breaking laws and rules simply for enjoyment is not the path to
sustained enjoyment. The path to sustained enjoyment is discipline and focus,
not instant gratification of breaking the law, which in the long run will
probably just make it even harder for said person to experience real
enjoyment.

I don't buy your argument that because your life is shitty you can do shitty
things.

~~~
coldtea
> _Could the poor kids not have mowed lawns, or done handy work around where
> they live to be able to save up money to buy the ticket properly?_

The rich kids didn't have to do those things, so why should they?

That was intended as a lesson in civility, but it's actually a lesson is
servility and injustice. Those were just as good kids as any other, they just
happened to have born into the "wrong" (ie poor) parents.

Hopefully at some point in a future society we would see the less access by
those poor kids the same way we see segregation today, and not just ask "why
couldn't they mowe lawns" to get the same thing the rich kids got doing
nothing.

(Though the real answer is that those poor kids in 40s-50s Italy probably
already worked much harder than "mowing lawns", and they still had their
priorities, like helping feed their families.

(Not to mention it was deemed OK by the society and seen with understanding,
they weren't stuck-up on commercialization like other cultures).

------
mattbee
So... he ordered a T1/T3 line? In 1997? That would have had a lead time of
weeks? Surely his rich mother (with a 5-figure credit card limit) chose to
fund her son's business, rather than disputing a ridiculous charge & kicking
the little bastard into next week.

I too co-founded my last business with £30,000, but - funny story - we just
asked our family & friends and they lent it to us. OK, not a funny story, but
it's the only story.

If everyone who wanted to start a business in the UK could've accessed £30,000
the UK would be a lot better off right now :/

------
alex_duf
That sounds a lot like the wrong kind of model to follow.

Gambling 30K he stole (from his mom!), paying stars to entertain his
girlfriend... I wouldn't want to be near that person.

Good on him for being successful he might be rich but he sounds morally
bankrupt.

~~~
ububu18
We live in a world were gamblers dominate. Maybe it has to do with the
intrinsic ponzi-logic of debt-money. Nearly nothing else than stealing or
gambling at crazy risk or beeing the monopolist by birth in the first place
leads to success, society pays the bill.

~~~
AstralStorm
You forgot directly doing everyone over with externalities and being unethical
corporate or political backstabber.

------
hnhg
If someone told me this story in real life, I'd find it hard to believe. On a
major news outlet, it feels like PR fluff based on a huge exaggeration. Yet
another founder myth.

~~~
mprev
I used to work for Andrew and, although the story of the £30k wasn't common
knowledge as such, we all knew the fact that he (and his friend Alex) started
the company while at school and then Andrew made a great success of it.

The parties were real; I went to a few of them.

------
jacquesm
It doesn't matter how much money you made. This is not much less stupid than
the people that ran a gas station in Northern Ontario that I financed. They
stole the till money (100's of thousands) to go gambling in the casino with
the intention to put back the original money they stole once they had won.

Of course it did not work out that way. Gas station bankrupt, everybody out of
a job. If one of my kids stole 30K from me I'd be more than happy to report
them, wondering along the line where I'd failed in bringing them up to think
that this would be an ok thing to do. Even if they would make millions.

I wrote about this here:

[https://jacquesmattheij.com/stick-to-what-you-know-a-tale-
of...](https://jacquesmattheij.com/stick-to-what-you-know-a-tale-of-an-
investment-gone-wrong/)

~~~
coldtea
> _It doesn 't matter how much money you made._

Actually it very much does. Life is all about outcomes.

~~~
xena
Depending on your philosophical outlook.

------
zimpenfish
> All of the web-hosting companies in the UK at the time were pitched at much
> bigger companies

Not true - I was working at one in 1996 (predating Fasthosts) that was
explicitly pitching at individuals and small businesses. IIRC, Claranet was
also doing the same at about the same time (late 1996).

~~~
mixmastamyk
And what happened? Was it successful?

~~~
zimpenfish
Mildly? It got sold for GBP10M in 1999 but I had been out of it for about a
year by that point (and I didn't have any equity anyway.)

------
benj111
What is it about these business bio's? I can't think of any other format where
you could sell, stealing £30k from your Mother as almost a good thing.

I get that they want to get 'inside the mind' of successful entrepreneurs, but
really I don't expect journalists to be this overtly, sickeningly fawning.
Based on his opening business gambit I wouldn't be surprised if this guy is
embroiled in some scandal, and currently the BBC is just bigging him up.

Edit: Spelling

~~~
LandR
Yes, this is just seems like survivorship bias.

Not a good way to start a business.

~~~
benj111
Survivorship bias is kind of missing the point, you could make that point
about a lot a business leaders.

My point was more, should we be holding up this person as an example to
emulate, as the article seems to be doing?

------
kurtisc
Out of interest, what kind of income/credit history do you need for a(t least
a) £30k credit limit?

~~~
GordonS
It was much easier to get large credit facilities in those days, or indeed
prior to the financial crisis (which was really a credit/debt crisis).

Round about the same time, my father had a credit limit of around £50k, across
3 different cards. He was a contractor earning around £100k/year, and given he
was _terrible_ with managing money, likely didn't have a great credit history.

Now in 2019 I earn around £100-150k a year, and my credit limit across 2 cards
is £10k, with an immaculate credit history. I'm sure my card providers would
increase it if I asked, but certainly not to £50k or even £30k.

------
LandR
I had hosting with fasthosts.

I forgot my password at some point and going through the forgotten password
flow ended with them emailing me my plaintext password...

This was years ago, hopfully they've improved by now!

------
jscholes
£30,000 in unexpected credit card debt is the sort of story which ends with
somebody committing suicide. But sure it's okay in this case because he did
well. If the business had failed, which one could argue was the most likely
outcome for a couple of teenagers hosting websites from their bedroom, the
headline could read very differently.

------
ahoy
See, you too can make it big as long as your parents can float you 30 grand!

~~~
coldtea
30 grand is not that difficult to come for a middle class person [1]. Someone
working a normal job with some sacrifices could save those money in like 5
years. Heck, people spend as much on cars. In fact, if you're so certain you
will "make it big", take a 30 grand loan.

Still, few if any of them create a 50 million dollar business (or even an 1
million dollar one).

So there's that.

You think the only thing between you and "making it big" is 30 grand?

(1) (well, what americans call middle class, not what the British bizarrely
call middle class, which means upper class very rich just no royalty)

------
marcodena
I just comment with "Motherfucker Jones"
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuUR0LksFaE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuUR0LksFaE)

------
whack
Maybe the guy can be chided for being stupid or for gambling. But for being
morally bankrupt? I'm not sure about that one.

Here's a hypothetical: suppose you wake up tomorrow as a teenager in 1997, and
have the ability to invest $30,000 in Google. Of course, you don't have the
money for it, and your parents refuse to believe you. Would you steal it from
your parents anyway, knowing that once you've made your money back, they will
be taken care of? I would do it in a heartbeat.

~~~
GordonS
Thing is, as a teenager you're way more likely to take risks than when you're
older, probably because you don't perceive the probability and consequences in
the same way.

So whether you can describe this as "morally bankrupt" really needs to be
taken in the context of his age at the time.

------
AstralStorm
Insert Chav/Good Guy meme pic here, you can replace the whole article with it.

------
anirudh4444
While on the outset it seems to promote an anti-pattern, it could be taken
positively and as good advice to just double down and eat some risk once a
good opportunity is spotted. As for the particular web hosting business, I
think a lot of companies like this that were bought out in the early phases of
the dotcom boom may not have been worth the price. If I had to guess, the
acquirer was probably driven by a lack of long term understanding and hype.

~~~
benj111
"it could be taken positively and as good advice to just double down and eat
some risk once a good opportunity is spotted"

How? His mum ate the risk, not him.

I'd happily double down with your credit card, doesn't make me a visionary
though.

