
Do I need to pay for Java now? - nfrankel
https://dev.karakun.com/java/2018/06/25/java-releases.html
======
fcurts
The conclusions that the article draws in "What does the new release train
mean to my company?" are completely wrong.

Starting with Java 11, Oracle JDK is no longer free for commercial use, not
even for a single day. However, as long as people are OK with GPL v2 +
Classpath Exception (which is more permissive than it sounds) and don't need
support from Oracle, they can just move to OpenJDK, which is built from the
exact same codebase.

Shoutout to [https://adoptopenjdk.net](https://adoptopenjdk.net), which plans
to ship LTS releases of OpenJDK. I believe this will be crucial for keeping
the Java ecosystem healthy.

~~~
Justsignedup
Does OpenJDK have the same optimizations as the official JDK? I thought
OpenJDK doesn't have java's JIT...

~~~
the_why_of_y
Where did you get that idea? The differentiation between OpenJDK and Oracle
JDK happens of course in the truly important part of the library: font
rendering.

[https://technfun.wordpress.com/2013/01/18/last-difference-
op...](https://technfun.wordpress.com/2013/01/18/last-difference-openjdk-
oracle-jdk/)

~~~
fcurts
That information is outdated. I'll say it once more: Oracle JDK 11 and OpenJDK
11 will be built from the exact same codebase.

[https://mjg123.github.io/2018/05/25/Opening-Oracle-JDK-
Featu...](https://mjg123.github.io/2018/05/25/Opening-Oracle-JDK-
Features.html)

~~~
bullen
From that article: "The JVM - This is where the majority of the OracleJDK-only
features are. Oracle is open-sourcing a new GC, performance enhancements,
tracing tools and a host of other changes."

If they open-source the performance of the JVM, they have nothing left to
sell.

~~~
fcurts
The quote describes the situation before JDK 11. As of 11, performance of
Oracle JDK and OpenJDK will be exactly the same. They'll sell support and
certified LTS builds.

~~~
bullen
Can you source that claim?

Also funny that they took the downloads offline today:

[https://docs.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jd...](https://docs.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jdk8-downloads-2133151.html)

~~~
fcurts
Apparently some links broke, but nothing was taken offline:
[http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jdk8...](http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jdk8-downloads-2133151.html)

> Can you source that claim?

From [https://www.azul.com/eliminating-java-update-
confusion/](https://www.azul.com/eliminating-java-update-confusion/):

Oracle stated that their goal was to eliminate any functional differences
between these two binaries. This will be complete with the release of JDK 11
in September. To achieve this goal, certain features (such as Flight Recorder
and Mission Control) have been contributed to the OpenJDK project, whilst
other features (like Java Web Start and JavaFX) are being removed from the
Oracle JDK.

From
[http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/eol-135779.htm...](http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/eol-135779.html):

As announced in September 2017, with the OracleJDK and builds of Oracle
OpenJDK being interchangeable for releases of Java SE 11 and later, [...]

------
krob
I wonder how this is going to play with JetBrains. If they're going to say F
java and focus on a different direction. This is a pretty big deal moving
forward. Seems like the community will now need to focus a lot of effort into
the open jdk. This effectively happened with mysql & oracle. This company
likes acquiring open source tech and then turning it into a commercial tech.

------
mr_overalls
Does anyone have an idea of whether C#/.NET are gaining ground on Java in the
enterprise?

------
bullen
Will you have to pay for the current Java 8u181 in prod?

I'm backing up the latest Java 8 for all platforms now.

Goodbye Oracle, Java 8 is the final Java, time to roll up the sleeves and
build our own VM language!

~~~
fcurts
You won't have to pay for using Oracle JDK 8u181 in prod, and you won't have
to pay for using OpenJDK 11 and higher in prod.

You will have to pay for using Oracle JDK 11 and higher in prod, which is
built from the exact same codebase as OpenJDK 11 but offers commercial support
and long-term support (LTS) releases.

[https://adoptopenjdk.net](https://adoptopenjdk.net) plans to ship LTS
releases of OpenJDK for free.

~~~
bullen
Ok, thanks!

But I'm pretty sure the superior performance of the closed source Oracle JVM
will never be open-sourced.

It's the only value Oracle has left, and they know they cannot exploit it,
even if this is a nice try.

Of the 2 million Java coders there are atleast 1% that care enough to look at
building a 100% open-source VM language.

I hope James Gosling is building exactly that at Amazon.

~~~
fcurts
As of 11, a "closed source Oracle JVM" won't exist anymore, and there won't be
any performance difference between Oracle JDK and OpenJDK.

~~~
bullen
If so my guess is Oracle will be gone within 10 years.

------
IloveHN84
If openjdk doesn't make it's own JavaFX builds, it's time to move on to other
languages, far better than Java on licensing base..

------
znpy
TL;DR: Yes. You have to pay for Java now.

Quoting the article: «Oracle JDKs may only be used in production if you buy
the commercial support.»

The alternative is using OpenJDK in production. We'll have to see how much the
Oracle JDK and OpenJDK will diverge.

~~~
fcurts
> TL;DR: Yes. You have to pay for Java now.

You have to pay for Oracle JDK but not for OpenJDK, which is just as good,
except for a less business-friendly license, no commercial support, and no LTS
builds straight from Oracle (instead you need to put your bets on
adoptopenjdk.net).

> Quoting the article: «Oracle JDKs may only be used in production if you buy
> the commercial support.»

Yes, but the author forgets about this in the "What does the new release train
mean to my company?" section and draws completely wrong conclusions.

> The alternative is using OpenJDK in production. We'll have to see how much
> the Oracle JDK and OpenJDK will diverge.

They will be identical. All of Oracle's JDK work, even LTS related work, will
go into the OpenJDK repo.

~~~
the_why_of_y
How is a license that puts no restrictions on usage "less business-friendly"?

... Oh I see, Oracle's strategy here is to monetize GPL FUD.

~~~
fcurts
> How is a license that puts no restrictions on usage "less business-
> friendly"?

Use of GPL licensed software is heavily restricted in many corporations,
whether or not it has the Classpath Exception. Among other things, it's hard
to verify/enforce that projects only link against files that have the
Classpath Exception.

