

Apple Updates The Mac Pro - salimmadjd
http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/10/apple-finally-updates-the-mac-pro/

======
mosqutip
"Can't innovate anymore, my ass".

Uh... what exactly is being "innovated" here?

~~~
bvdbijl
Please show me a device that's comparable to the new Mac Pro... So much
performance in this small of a form factor is pretty innovative

~~~
gtaylor
You could build something much more powerful for cheaper, and still be able to
upgrade/change out individual internal components. I've bumped the RAM
capacity/speed twice since I built this machine three years ago. Upgraded the
video card once, and CPU once. When I decide to do a more thorough re-vamp, I
can re-use the power supply, the case, the video card, and a bunch of other
components.

What you're really paying for is a very expensive and moderately beefy machine
that can run OS X legally. Or you need Final Cut Pro in some serious capacity.
Oh, and it has an Apple logo on it.

~~~
foxhill
i do a lot of audio recording. having a machine that is near silent even at
full load is incredibly useful.

~~~
gtaylor
It's OK if you didn't want to, but you can build something cheaper and even
more quiet than this new Mac Pro yourself. There are some excellent cases and
cooling systems, and you can choose your components with your needs in mind.

With these Mac Pros, I don't think people who buy them are necessarily
concerned about specs or cost-effectiveness. I think they are enthusiasts that
need Mac OS, and find the Macbook Pro or iMac underpowered.

~~~
gte910h
A person can build something cheaper and more quiet. That is not necessarily
the person you are talking to though. Many people don't have that skill set,
but say, work in music.

They're premium computers that aren't the highest end specs, but have a pretty
good set of specs for the size and noise especially and can be serviced
quickly at apple stores across the country pretty easily.

------
Fomite
Not thrilled with "all the expansion is external". I wonder how clean it will
look with external storage, external PCI cases, etc.

They didn't talk much, but hopefully the RAM is easy to upgrade. I have the
sinking feeling the GPU won't be, and the onboard SSD will be...pricey.

------
wtallis
I'm glad to see someone finally making the obvious form factor changes we've
been needing for a long time at the high end. An ATX style case just doesn't
make sense anymore. ATX gives you lots of volume for cooling the CPU and lots
of room to add PCB area in the form of expansion cards. But hardly anyone
needs 7 expansion cards, and everyone needs more room for the GPU heatsink.
Completely throwing out internal expandability may be a bit ahead of its time
(like ditching the floppy drive with the iMac), but it does allow for a
compact and efficient system layout. I do wonder about being stuck with your
original GPU(s).

So what happens now for the Mac Mini Server?

~~~
foxhill
as far as i know, mac pros have never been in ATX form factor.

intel tried to create a new case standard, BTX, years ago. but it seems no one
likes change..

~~~
wtallis
The Mac Pro wasn't ATX, but it followed the same general principles of being a
large tower case with a lot more expansion slots than anyone needed, and not
enough space between the slots for a GPU to have good cooling, and expansion
slots that were several inches longer than any PCB that ever needed to be put
in there.

------
foxhill
kind of surprised to see an update, i genuinely thought it was getting
scrapped. however..

case aesthetic appears to be a regression. the previous one was almost
perfect.

no 16 core ivy-bridge option. i assume haswell might be an option later.

no expandable internal storage.

no pci-e slots (?) is beyond ridiculous.

i'll reserve final judgement for when i actually see one, but right now, but
things aren't looking good right now..

------
LukeHoersten
I know this is a bit off topic but part of the same hardware presentation:
does the new Macbook Air have retina display? I couldn't tell from the
keynote.

~~~
donum
I think they would have mentioned that.. so: no. :)

~~~
LukeHoersten
Agreed. That sucks =(

------
jawilson2
Well, it looks like I'm done using Mac Pros for CUDA development.

~~~
foxhill
are the GPUs not upgradeable?

also, why are you using CUDA? sure it has more features. but then new hardware
comes along made by someone else..

~~~
deltron
Highly doubtful it's going to be upgradeable.

------
jfb
The case reminds me of old SGI hardware; I'm glad to see that it's not just
another box full of cards.

~~~
throwit1979
Huh? The case looks exactly the same as the old case. Are you seeing a
different version of the article than I am? The photo I see is this:
[http://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/img_9182...](http://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/img_9182.jpg?w=1280)

~~~
jfb
The website hasn't updated yet. See for instance Ars' brief about it.[1]

[1] [http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/06/at-long-last-apple-
anno...](http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/06/at-long-last-apple-announces-
new-mac-pro-with-cylindrical-design/)

------
Friedas_
No expandable storage?!

~~~
masklinn
External only, via TB2.

------
rbritton
At 1/8 the size will it even have any of the internal storage capacity that I
love my current MacPro for?

~~~
masklinn
They said it's all external via TB2 (they put in 3 TB2 controllers driving 6
ports)

~~~
rbritton
So cords everywhere then. I do a lot of photo editing an have close to 10 TB
storage internal (I repurposed the optical drive bays). I can keep all of my
working files internally and only have external drives for archiving and
backup and aren't connected all of the time.

~~~
masklinn
Yes. Though considering the volume reduction you can probably get more storage
in an external enclosure without going above the footprint of the old Pro.

------
apendleton
Looks slick, but I was really hoping for something more modern that could
drive lots of displays. A limit of three is pretty mediocre; you can do that
with other already-available mac hardware. Oh, well.

~~~
masklinn
It's 3 4k displays, not 3 displays. It's probably able to drive more
"standard" displays, I expect each 4k saturates one of the controllers (which
would be why it has 3 controllers on 6 ports)

~~~
jfb
It would be sufficient bandwidth for 12 1080p displays. That's not bad.

------
zacharycohn
Wait, 1/8 th the size, or 1/8 th smaller?

~~~
masklinn
1/8th the size.

~~~
zacharycohn
Auuugh, I thought it said MacBook pro...

------
aeontech
Very impressive specs... Curious to see how soon it will be possible to build
your own machine with the same capabilities.

~~~
gtaylor
Unless I'm misunderstanding something, you could already blow this thing away
at its price point by building your own. It wouldn't be as pretty looking, but
you could do better (if specs are the primary concern).

~~~
jfb
This is certainly true; but I wonder for how much longer it will be -- it
doesn't seem that economics really favor the build it yourself model nearly as
much as they used to.

~~~
gtaylor
I guess I haven't ran into this. I've been able to re-use some of my
components through different incarnations of this desktop, and it's saved me a
ton of money.

For example, I don't need to upgrade my entire desktop to upgrade my video
card. I can toss something nasty in there, and even if my motherboard doesn't
support the latest and greatest PCIe spec, my next one will. Ditto for SATA.

I've got a ton of mileage out of my case, as well. Spent a little more to get
something nice, and ended up liking it so much that I've held on to it for
close to five years now. Ditto for my modular power supply.

~~~
jfb
It is very nice; the model of 'everything is soldered down' is really annoying
wherever you find it (my BMW, my Mac, &c.) But I think that the difference in
cost between standard expandable hardware and custom stuff is shrinking really
rapidly, meaning that designers can now do more things with e.g. thermals or
layout that are not feasible using PC style standard hardware.

The age of swapping out parts is coming to a close, I fear.

~~~
gte910h
Yeah, internal interchangeability without a soldering iron is coming at a real
cost these days.

External buses are faster than ever though, so many things go quite quickly
through those for expansion capability.

------
shmerl
When will Mac OSX support OpenGL 4.x?

~~~
szx
Next release (Maverick).

~~~
shmerl
Good. They took their sweet time to start supporting it. Linux and Windows got
it way earlier.

------
defied
I just hope this new design doesn't make it difficult to mount in a rack in a
datacenter.

------
PhilipA
I missed the event. Are there any better pictures, than this article?

~~~
masklinn
[http://live.arstechnica.com/wwdc-2013-keynote-
liveblog/](http://live.arstechnica.com/wwdc-2013-keynote-liveblog/)

Scroll down to about halfway through.

------
JimmaDaRustla
Thought it was wicked, until I heard how big it was.

------
bhauer
Are the Xeons in question Haswells (that is, E3 v3)?

~~~
oofabz
No, they are Ivy Bridge-E. Haswell-E doesn't ship until 2014.

~~~
bhauer
Oh? I had been under the impression that Haswell Xeons (at least the E3 v3
series) were available "now" [1]:

"Twelve of the chips are available now, but the 13 watt E3-1220L that will be
particularly interesting for microservers is not going to be available until
the third quarter..."

What am I missing here? Presumably the 12-core option would be an E5, is that
it?

[1]
[http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/04/intel_haswell_xeon_e...](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/04/intel_haswell_xeon_e3_1200_v3_server_chip/)

~~~
oofabz
The Haswell Xeon E3 series is quad core, single-socket. It uses the same die
as desktop Haswell CPUs. The Mac Pro is six core, double-socket, so it must be
a "-E". Based on the availability date (later this year), it must be Ivy
Bridge-E. Intel will almost certainly call it an E5.

~~~
bhauer
Thanks. That was my vague suspicion--that the 12-core option would be an E5.

Presumably the specs they announced are the top-end specs. Perhaps the lower
tiers would use E3s.

~~~
wtallis
They're advertising quad-channel DDR3-1866. That entirely rules out the
desktop-class processors, which have never been used in a Mac Pro anyways. The
Xeon E3 and E5 lines use completely different die configurations and
motherboard sockets, and the E3s don't have enough PCIe lanes to feed all the
peripheral connectivity the new Mac Pro will have.

------
snogglethorpe
Nice!

But ... will it run linux?

------
ttrreeww
Looks like a trash can.

~~~
petercooper
And the old one looked like a cheese grater (to many complaining at the time).

~~~
ttrreeww
I hope it's quite or fanless. Looks like it's a giant heatsink design.

~~~
IbJacked
According to Apple it's quiet. It uses a single fan at the top to draw air in
from the bottom and exhaust it out the top.

