
The exercise “recovery” industry is largely bogus - pseudolus
https://www.vox.com/2019/2/9/18215958/exercise-recovery-bogus-cupping-ice-bath
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yeutterg
Two important factors not mentioned in the section "So what actually
works...?", but potentially in the book (I didn't read it), are getting
adequate sleep and alternating vigorous activity with rest (or slow exercise
like walking). Many elite athletes sleep at least 9 hours per night.

As a former crossfitter, I never understood how people could show up for a
5:30 or 6:30 AM session 5 or 6 days a week. My hsCRP levels were quite
elevated at the time even with my rule to sleep twice between workouts. For
example, I could do a Tuesday night session and a Thursday morning session,
but nothing on Wednesday.

Perhaps those daily crossfitters had such a low-stress lifestyle outside of
the gym? Based on their personalities and stories of only sleeping 4-6 hours,
I think not. I think they just had a "power through it" attitude, but that
doesn't seem like a good solution for the long run.

~~~
klum
Sleep is awesome, yes. I don't quite get how people like Jocko Willink
([https://twitter.com/jockowillink](https://twitter.com/jockowillink))
function... but at least for me, the hours I sleep are rarely the limiting
factor regarding how much I get done, but rather how I use the hours I'm
awake.

~~~
tenpies
Jocko almost certainly has certain genetic mutations that allow him to get by
on much less sleep. These mutations have been identified for a while now[1],
but they also seem to result in a vulnerability to degenerative mental
conditions later in life. It is not clear if it is a direct result of the
mutations, the decreased amount of sleep interfering with other processes, or
something else.

\---

1\. [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/genetic-
mutation-...](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/genetic-mutation-
sleep-less/)

~~~
asdffdsa
I'd advise you to listen to Cant Hurt Me by David Goggins. Lots of people, me
included, explain away uncommon behavior with science but we are all capable
of lots more than we think. The problem is we see others do incredible things
and think we cant achieve something similar so we assume they're something
fundamentally different from us.

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ip26
Hard to trust fully. Hiking, I have found if I go too long without drinking I
hit a wall where suddenly everything is twice as hard; I don't die but in a
matter of minutes I go from "what a great day" to "how am I ever going to do
this". Then I drink water, and I feel better. Thirst really hasn't been a
great indicator, and I've had to settle on drinking a measured 16oz every
hour, depending on conditions & exertion.

~~~
kerkeslager
Right, but I don't think that's really indicative of the "exercise recovery"
industry. Bottled water, of course, is an industry, but I don't know of a
company that's specifically trying to sell water for exercise recovery. It's
just water, it's fairly well known that humans need that, especially when
exercising.

~~~
ip26
I guess it's this part I'm reacting to more than anything:

 _“We’re taught we can’t trust our bodies and that it’s not enough to listen
to your thirst.” But it turns out thirst is a great indicator of dehydration._

 _“You really can use [thirst] to know whether it’s time to drink or not,” she
said._

You'll get thirsty before you are dead. But for me I hit the wall before I
really feel thirsty. Nobody describes feeling insatiably hungry and following
their hunger as a strategy to avoid bonking- they manage their exertion and
monitor their carb intake. For me & water, it is the same.

Perhaps there is some nuance here- perhaps, like with food, your body
suppresses the drive to drink during endurance sports. But maybe when you sit
on the bench after a play, you do reliably feel thirsty when you need it.

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0xcde4c3db
It's not just recovery. Apart from the most basic equipment, the entire
exercise industry is bursting at the seams with bullshit. It's not really
limited to industry, even; exercise culture embraces all kinds of myths, from
traditionalist "everybody knows" prescriptions (with many of those being in
conflict) to galaxy-brain contrarianism to "broscience", and you can find
products and services that cater to almost all of those myths. It's not
shocking that stuff like cupping and cryotherapy thrives in that environment.

~~~
TillE
Health and fitness are definitely the biggest bullshit magnets, probably
because they're universal human issues with few easy answers.

~~~
z3t4
I was in the training industry as a coach/trainer before going full time
developer. One reason I went into software instead was because of all the bs,
guess what, it's even more bs in the software industry. You should use these
tools, these programming languages are the best, you should follow these style
guides, chasing the next big thing, sound familiar ? :P At least with exercise
there are a lot of scientific studies, but in software there are mostly gurus,
hype, cool-aid and strong beliefs, and plenty of money to be made by smooth
talk and snake oil. Just like in software , the experienced developers do not
buy the bs, just like the experienced coaches/athletes. It's people who buy
software, or are new to training that fall for it.

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FigBug
> There’s never been a case of a runner dying of dehydration on a marathon
> course

I don't think this is true, unless the claim is 'on a marathon course' so they
can discount dying later in the hospital. Still, it's not common.

[https://www.haaretz.com/1.5150497](https://www.haaretz.com/1.5150497)

~~~
jzylstra
There is an adverse cardiac event for one in every ~50,000 runners of a
marathon. Complications of a heart attack may include death.

This point was mentioned by the health director of the NYC marathon, an MD
responsible for an event which sees ~50,000 runners participating each year.

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Flip-per
I agree that the sports industry is trying to sell tons of unnecessary stuff.
But only because there is not (yet) any scientific evidence doesn't mean that
something doesn't work.

Sports academia has a long history of false findings and changing its mind.
Just look at how the opinion about stretching changed, which in my humble
opinion should be rather easy to assess.

Given this uncertainty I'd look both at academia and at what top athletes do.
Keeping in mind that the top athletes have very different circumstances and
needs compared to amateurs.

~~~
thanatos_dem
> Just look at how the opinion about stretching changed

What happened with stretching? Did we formerly not like stretching, or did we
formerly like it but no longer?

~~~
Flip-per
Stretching went from dynamic stretching (bouncing) to static, and then back to
dynamic - with phases of not stretching at all. There were even books about
how stretching was considered dangerous or harmful.

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kbutler
> "True recovery requires nurturing a recovery mindset,” she writes, “one that
> fully honors the body’s need to recuperate and senses when it’s time to
> chill."

...and there's the proposed next bogus pseudoscientific fad for recovery.

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elliekelly
> One of the most fascinating findings in Good to Go is that soreness or
> injury from exercise can be exacerbated by psychological stress. “The
> psychological component of recovery is underappreciated among athletes,”
> Aschwanden said, pointing to studies of college football players who had a
> higher risk of injury during stressful periods of the academic calendar.

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hprotagonist
active warmup, static cool down, focused stretching on risk areas (tendons)
maybe a foam roller on the old IT band, and a trip to the sauna if i have
time.

seems to work fine.

cupping seems like obvious woo, for sure.

~~~
kiba
How do you know if it actually work or just placebo?

I don't really do warmup or cooldown because they're a waste of time when I
have to do cardio for ~20 minutes and one hour for weightlifting.

~~~
asdffdsa
Ime, I used to run occasionally and never warmed up, but once I started
running more seriously (5-6x a week, interval/long runs, ~20 miles a week)
injuries popped up right and left (knees, hamstring, shin splints). Warming up
improves range of motion and flexibility, and I run with much better form.
Cooling down I dont do as much, but I do focus in muscles that feel tight.
Tight muscles tend to have poor flexibility and can lead to injury and poor
performance.

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AbrahamParangi
A practice doesn't need to be "scientific" to be effective. If a practice is
effective you should probably be able to figure out _why_ it's effective given
some effort (half-assed explanations are often pseudoscientific), but not
having an a priori theory is no barrier to efficacy.

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mandeepj
Maybe, the guy is just trying to sell the book by creating a controversy

