
How I legally got scammed for $250 by an upscale apartment complex - wunderg
https://medium.com/@angry.tenant/how-i-legally-got-scammed-for-250-and-2-days-by-upscale-apartment-complex-34fd1d0ff9e7
======
wyldfire
If this happens to you, you should consider talking to:

1\. Your state's AG [1]

2\. The local TV news

3\. Local police

I don't think I would call it a "legal scam," it sounds remarkably like fraud.
Lots of modern fraud takes place over international VoIP calls, so the fact
that there's a brick and mortar business with assets that can be seized means
you shouldn't give up quickly.

> Even disputing a charge on the credit card — they have copies of our ID,
> smart.

Dispute it anyways. Yes, it may flip back on you once they disclose the fact
that you were there. But just stipulate it upfront that you made the purchase
but the terms were unclear or that the claims that they made regarding your
rejection are false.

These guys sound like they are clever enough to try and make their scheme as
close to legal as possible. They made sure that the amount you're getting
scammed isn't worth your time or an attorney's time. But don't let them get
away with it.

[1] Texas AG consumer complaints:
[https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/cpd/file-a-consumer-
com...](https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/cpd/file-a-consumer-complaint)

~~~
akira2501
4\. Go to your state legislature and try to get a bill passed.

What surprises me is that CoreLogic is not bound by the same terms that any
other credit reporting bureau is. There is no way any business is going to
just write you a letter stating that you currently owe no money, not without
talking to a lawyer first, I'd hope.

If they want to impugn your credit with with this type of reporting, then it's
their responsibility to ensure its accuracy.

~~~
ben1040
CoreLogic claims they FCRA doesn't apply to them, because they apparently are
a "wholesale" data warehouse that sells data to companies that do background
checks, but a federal judge disagreed:

[http://www.reuters.com/article/employment-corelogic-
idUSL2N1...](http://www.reuters.com/article/employment-corelogic-
idUSL2N17N0D8)

~~~
downandout
There is another major database called Early Warning [1] that also claims to
be exempt from certain parts of the FCRA. I was an identity theft victim.
After blocking credit checks at all 3 major bureaus and ChexSystems, I
contacted these guys and asked them to block any reports they have on me. They
essentially said that they don't have to, and won't, despite legislation
allowing consumers to request freezing of credit files. I eventually got a
nasty voicemail basically inviting me to sue them if I didn't like it.

These specialty databases need serious regulation...it's clear that credit
bureaus and those that use them are tired of working within the confines of
the FCRA and are going out of their way to create databases that are exempt.

[1] [http://earlywarning.com/](http://earlywarning.com/)

------
ploxiln
Maybe you've never attempted to rent an apartment in NYC. They typically
require

    
    
      * scanned ID
      * recent bank statements
      * recent pay stubs
      * recent tax return or W2
      * letter of employment on official company letterhead
      * company office number they can call to confirm employment
      * last two addresses you lived at
      * letter from previous landlord
      * yearly salary at least 40x (sometimes 50x) monthly rent
      * ~ $100 application fee for background / credit check
      * first months rent, security deposit, and broker's fee, on three separate certified/cashiers checks
    
    

The market of renters is very competitive. But also, as a tenant it's possible
for you to be a huge problem, and you can be very difficult for them to
remove. It's like they assume I might make a huge mess, damage the apartment,
never pay rent, and refuse to move out for many months while legal proceedings
grind slowly through the courts, and they'll never recover any costs because
I'm broke. Even though my bank account statements show I could pay for the
whole year up-front.

Compare to when Square shuts down or rejects a seller account with no
explanation or recourse, or when Google AdWords does the same. It's because
they've been burned by scammers in the past, scammers who are better at
looking safe and innocent than honest people. It's just more efficient for
them to be draconian and unsympathetic.

I just accept that's how it is. Maybe you take your business elsewhere. You're
only out $250, could be way worse, could be thousands ...

~~~
chrisferry
I've never had to scan ID or provide a previous landlord letter for a NYC
rental. Also there's usually no app fee just a $50 credit check. But all the
other bullet points ring true. I've also lived in trendier Brooklyn
neighborhoods where the competition is high. You must be prepared with a
cashiers check for a down payment. Shit goes quick here.

~~~
PhineasRex
I live in NYC and likewise have never had to scan my ID. Scanning my ID would
seem really odd to me if a landlord ever asked for it.

------
phonon
Why don't they get a copy of the Corelogic report?

[http://www.corelogic.com/solutions/rental-property-
solutions...](http://www.corelogic.com/solutions/rental-property-solutions-
consumer-assistance.aspx)

How do I obtain a copy of my CoreLogic Rental Property Solutions Consumer
File?

Under the Fair Credit Reporting Act, you are entitled to receive one free copy
of your consumer file in any twelve month period from a credit reporting
agency (CRA). You are also entitled to a free copy of your consumer file if
you meet the following criteria:

You have been notified of an adverse action or been denied housing or
employment based on information in your consumer file within the past 60 days

You reside in a state where you are entitled to more than one free copy in any
twelve month period

You suspect that your file may contain fraudulent information, or you are a
victim of identity theft

You are unemployed or you currently receive public assistance

You may obtain a copy of your CoreLogic® Rental Property Solutions consumer
file in one of two ways:

1) Call our toll-free number 1-888-333-2413 OR 2) Complete this form.
[http://www.corelogic.com/downloadable-docs/saferent-
consumer...](http://www.corelogic.com/downloadable-docs/saferent-consumer-
disclosure.pdf)

------
joshuaheard
Landlord here. This tenant made a mistake paying an "administrative fee" of
$150, and giving the deposit ($350) without a signed lease. Though, we do
charge a $50 application fee to cover the cost of the background check we run.

However, if this company is indeed not intending to rent this property and
only collecting the application fees, it would be fraud.

~~~
fwefwwfe
> Then they made a photocopy of our ID for a file. Which again raised my
> suspicion, I’ve rented many apartment before and none of properties ever
> asked for that before signing the lease

That sounds like a red flag with the article/author. What apartment place
wouldn't do a background check and want ID to make sure they go the right
person?

~~~
4ad
As a non-American living in Western Europe the idea of a landlord doing a
"background check" on prospective tenants is terrifying. Never heard of such a
thing in Europe. What the hell does "background check" even entail.

~~~
pjc50
Unfortunately in the UK landlords are obliged to perform immigration checks:
[https://www.gov.uk/check-tenant-right-to-rent-
documents/who-...](https://www.gov.uk/check-tenant-right-to-rent-
documents/who-to-check)

Most European countries have mandatory ID / residence registration so this is
handled directly by the state rather than making landlords do it.

(Whether the UK counts as "Europe" is a subject of extreme controversy)

~~~
Symbiote
That rule in the UK is very new, and also controversial.

------
yohoho22
For what it's worth, landlords in Texas have to "maintain written [tenant]
selection criteria"[1] and inform you of them when asked. This is supposed to
be noted and underlined on rental applications.

1 (PDF):
[https://www.tdhca.state.tx.us/pmcdocs/TenantSelectionCriteri...](https://www.tdhca.state.tx.us/pmcdocs/TenantSelectionCriteria.pdf)

------
pm24601
And this is why … I love California and would never move to a “business-
friendly” state.

[http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/looking.shtm...](http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/looking.shtml)

> “The application fee cannot legally be more than the landlord’s actual out-
> of-pocket costs, and, in 2012, can never be more than $44.51. The landlord
> must give you a receipt that itemizes his or her out-of-pocket expenses in
> obtaining and processing the information about you. The landlord must return
> any unused portion of the fee (for example, if the landlord does not check
> your references).”

------
gambiting
This is standard state of affairs in the UK, I see some agencies in US started
to take notice.

Basically if you want to rent a property here, an agency will demand that you
pay their fee first(last time I paid over 500 pounds just in agency fees), so
they can run a full background check on you - so you have to submit proof of
your employment, proof of income, history of addresses for past 3 years, bank
account details, copy of my passport to prove the right to rent in the UK, and
then it's sent off to some agency somewhere which does the check.

And basically it comes back as yes/no, depending on your credit score, income,
blah blah blah. If it comes back as no, you lose all the money you paid in
those "fees".

It's a scam of gigantic proportions, but UK plays along because people here
love "order" and being invigilated by some random rental agency seems to
scratch that itch.

~~~
mijoharas
True, but we are trying to make it illegal [0] for precisely the reasons you
stated, and it's already illegal in Scotland.

[0]
[http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/buytolet/article-4032280/...](http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/buytolet/article-4032280/When-
does-tenant-fees-ban-begin.html)

------
cperciva
Stories like this are why it's illegal in BC to charge application fees
([http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/0207...](http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/02078_01#section15)).

Our tenancy law isn't perfect, but I think this is one of the things we got
right.

~~~
dghf
Also in Scotland. Soon to be the case in England & Wales, if the government
doesn't blink in the face of outraged letting agents.

~~~
mijoharas
Thanks, I had thought that it was already illegal in England, just learned
that it hasn't come into effect yet[0]. For information, the linked to article
states that it will probably come into effect in September, provided the
government doesn't blink as mentioned above.

[0]
[http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/buytolet/article-4032280/...](http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/buytolet/article-4032280/When-
does-tenant-fees-ban-begin.html)

------
djyaz1200
Related but not precisely on topic... When will a group of talented people
with access to capital end the gross imbalance of power between landlords and
tenants with technology? In just about every other area of the economy the
customer has the power. To give the customer aka renter more power they need
more information. Step 1 is having ratings for all landlords/properties. The
landlords get your rating (your credit) but you don't get theirs. That
asymmetry puts the renter at a disadvantage. There is also no price discovery
mechanism. You only know the rate they quote you, no way to find out the
actual price they are charging existing tenants. Payments in this industry are
often still by check which is absurd in 2017. This is one of the last giant
markets left for technology to disrupt but it's going to be a war. The
landlord/tenant relationship is "where the rubber meets the road" in the
struggle between the rich and the rest of us... so this isn't going to be
easy. If someone took this on I'd be honored to be a part of it!

[https://vimeo.com/user12087540/checkmeonce](https://vimeo.com/user12087540/checkmeonce)

------
bubblethink
I was looking for rentals last weekend in ATL , and i noticed the
administrative fee too. I don't remember seeing it last time around (couple of
years ago), which makes me wonder if it's a recent phenomenon. The
adminstrative fee, usually $250 or so, was in addition to the application fee.
This makes no sense. What are they charging this for ? I didn't ask if it's
after the application is approved or before. I'm guessing that it's after, but
it's still a straight up cash grab. Another shitty thing that stood out was
some sort of mandatory comcast fees. That is $85 for Comcast's most basic
package, which is much higher than the price on Comcast's website.

~~~
Bartweiss
In keeping with this
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11986307](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11986307)),
cable companies frequently pay for lock-in deals with apartment complexes.
Spectacularly shitty, but I suspect related to you getting worse-than-listed
rates.

------
clamprecht
Post this to the Austin reddit. Others may have been scammed as well.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/)

If you have the time, sue them in small claims court. Document everything.

Edit: I see you've already posted it:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/63azq8/how_i_legall...](https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/63azq8/how_i_legally_got_scammed_for_250_and_2_days_by/)

------
maerF0x0
Whenever you have something like this please put it on Yelp! Many of us will
check yelp before renting with a company.

------
wapz
>The First place we visited Altis Lakeline managed by Altman Companies was
amazing, its a brand new apartment complex with cool amenities, priced at
$1400 which is much lower, compare to similar places $1600–$1700, that where I
missed first red flag. Plus they had amazing special — 2 months free rent —
which under normal circumstances will raise suspicion, I thought it’s a brand
new property with construction done a few months ago trying to get to full
capacity.

I really had trouble reading through this. I know medium isn't for writers per
se but basic proofreading would have helped tremendously.

~~~
tedmiston
I felt the same way over and over again throughout. Whether or not the
author's primary language is English, it feels like it was written without
proofreading or editing at all.

~~~
magic_beans
I got the sense they weren't a native speaker. Otherwise the errors were,
frankly, egregious.

------
lawnchair_larry
Any company like this is going to scam you at move out time as well. One agent
told me that nobody gets their full deposit back, ever. They'll make up a list
of things they had to do and give you an inflated bill for it.

~~~
rhexs
This is easy to get around. Take pictures of the apartment at move-in. Read
the lease to discover standard cleaning fees before signing. Take care of the
apartment. Walk through the apartment with the Landlord on move-out.

If they fraudulently deduct as part of some sort of profit-center, discover
the wonderful world of small claims court. Not going to be fun but you'll win.

~~~
jessaustin
Haha this seems like maybe you haven't rented many places. My brother used to
talk like this, but on his last move-out he got totally shafted. He and his
wife had meticulously scrubbed every surface, _then_ they hired a cleaning
company, and they _still_ got none of their deposit back.

The "easy" solution to this, although it does have some drawbacks, is simply
not to pay the last month's rent.

The only time I haven't gotten screwed over by a landlord is when we knew each
other through our university alumni association.

~~~
rhexs
Rented plenty of places. Read my comment again. You seem to have ignored
critical parts of it. Yes, if your landlord takes your deposit and do nothing
except complain on hackernews they obviously aren't going to write you a check
out of the goodness of their hearts.

Not paying the last months rent seems like an absolutely terrible idea
(depends on local state laws I suppose, but please consult with a local renter
advocate association or lawyer before trying this) and the exact sort of
advice that will lead you into handing over gobs of cash to your landlord for
absolutely no good reason then writing anecdotes about it till the end of
time.

------
Veratyr
> Then they made a photocopy of our ID for a file. Which again raised my
> suspicion, I’ve rented many apartment before and none of properties ever
> asked for that before signing the lease, in my head it was done deal — so I
> let it slip.

Seems to be normal here in the bay area. They usually do a background check
too and I can't imagine that happening without ID.

~~~
Bartweiss
I was confused about that being suspicious myself. It seems common, and it
doesn't actually prevent him from doing a credit card chargeback - he's not
disputing on "I never paid that", he's disputing on "they didn't give what
they promised".

------
nassir
I faced a relatively similar situation when trying to rent in the East Bay. My
wife and I both have 720+ credit scores as were looking to rent in the $2500
range. After going through applications at 3 places and getting rejected, I
realized something was off. Our credit scores had been run multiple times and
we had paid application processing fees at multiple places yet we were getting
rejected. Perhaps the applicant pool is so strong that my 7X multiple on rent
income and great scores won't cut it - but I find it hard to believe. Perhaps
the blessing of a strong tech economy comes with the curse of arrogant and
fraudulant potential landlords. Can't wait to get out of this city

~~~
tedmiston
> After going through applications at 3 places and getting rejected, I
> realized something was off.

So did you investigate what that something is? (Unclear to me)

~~~
floatrock
he's saying "lots of people are probably running this scam" as an explanation
his shitty experience with the shittiness that is the bay area housing market.

~~~
tedmiston
Ah, okay. After reading the author's Medium post, I wasn't as convinced the
rest of HN that he's actually being scammed. Put another way, he has not
convinced me that the issue doesn't lie in something unique to his situation
or his credit report. Most of the "red flags" mentioned, as others have
pointed out here, are not abnormal in (legitimate) apartment rental
application processes, my own included.

------
aub3bhat
Honestly the author should try applying for renting an apartment/room in NYC.
I had to give, ID, Letter from employer/university, payslips, SSN etc. Weeks
before signing the lease, which actually ended up happening literally the day
of move-in. The 250$ charge seems exorbitant, but ~50 to 100$ credit check fee
is common, most agents will provide a realistic assessment of your chances.

------
hprotagonist
This is why I vastly prefer to rent on handshake deals and standard lease
agreements with homeowners. It's waaaay more human.

~~~
67726e
I've been burned by a major corporate rental before, and will never do that
again. Moving in wasn't a problem, though the "Smart Saver" non-refundable
deposit they offered should have been enough of a red flag. Once while on a
week long company retreat they upgraded their payment system, which removed my
payment information not only causing my rent to be late, but they then filed
for eviction after only three days. That cost me easily half a month's rent in
fees to clear up because of their own technical fuckup. The only notice for
the upgrade, of course, was a flyer left hanging from my door which I found
when I got home along with a notice on my door. When I moved out they claimed
nearly a thousand dollars in cleaning fees, with line items like "trash bag
(5), $75 each," which in itself would be bullshit had I not had the place
cleaned. When I tried to dispute the charges, the ever so helpful rental
agents told me to pay it in thirty days or it would go to collections.

These mega rental corporations just exist to nickel and dime the shit out of
everyone and will throw their weight around. You'll just spend more on legal
fees, and they bank on that.

~~~
hprotagonist
From me, pulling that sort of horseshit gets you a certified letter notifying
you, the landlord, of your impending small claims court date.

Companies that want to play that kind of game don't want to play it with me.
Particularly in my state (MA), the law is vastly in my favor, and I am willing
and able to spend the time proving that point. I know a lot of people can't,
so i'm happy enough to exact some measure of karmic equivalence.

~~~
rograndom
In my state (VT), there's a section of the law that says something to the
effect that if a landlord willfully withholds returning any part of the
security deposit after 14 days then the tenant is automatically awarded 3x of
the deposit.

I learned all about this in the last apartment I rented before buying a house.
I was trying to work with the property management companies lawyer over how
much it would cost to replace broken door (another long story), and the lawyer
was of the mind that I owed them more than I had on deposit and I should set
up a payment plan ASAP.

The 14 day limit passed and I got a summons that I was being sued for $1500
over the deposit for a couple of small things plus a empty heating oil tank
(heat wasn't included). They said it was full when I moved in, but I produced
a receipt that _I_ paid for the tank to be filled on the day I moved in along
with a voice mail from the actual landlord that said I didn't need to fill the
tank when I moved out.

The lawyer immediately wanted to "settle" with them keeping the whole deposit,
but I was happy to go to court. We were in front of the judge for less than a
minute and they ended up paying almost 1/2 of the first year of my mortgage.

~~~
hprotagonist
I found a really lovely blog post a few years back where something like this
happened. The landlord's lawyer's face apparently visibly collapsed when the
tenant replied "oh, let me check my notes" on the stand in response to
questioning and pulled out 3" of paper..

------
jumpkickhit
Does Medium.com not have editors or something? Some things sounded off, some
didn't make any sense at all.

"She just hang up on me"

"Plus they had amazing special"

"They provide iPad on the spot"

"my wife credit score"

"At this point I hate it them."

~~~
metaphorm
there are no editors. it's user generated content, it's not a magazine.

------
erik998
The whole situation sucks. The last thing anyone wants to do is consistently
use an attorney to handle matters like these. Each and every day it seems like
a necessity. I guess when leasing a place, add up all the months. It might be
a good rule of thumb to always consult an attorney for any contracts with
goods or services worth more $2000.00.

What sucks is finding an attorney that can advise you on such matters, deal
with them, and litigate them for your refund + attorney costs.

------
kw71
I know that 'obtaining money or property under false pretenses' is a felony in
at least some states. I wonder why this wouldn't apply?

------
achandlerwhite
This is exactly what the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is designed to
fight against. www.consumerfinance.gov

------
squozzer
It's possible the author is on to something -- but proving it is something
else. Maybe 5 people in Austin area with perfect-ish credit scores / hidden
cameras could mount a sting op.

Similar to how government agencies build cases of racial discrimination in
housing.

------
exabrial
Ask them what their minimum credit score is? If they refuse, I'd say you
definitely have a legal case to recover your time and lawyer fees

~~~
kbenson
It's a proprietary credit system. Presumably, they have the ability to tweak
the system (possibly though a separate agency under similar ownership that is
able to report people with post-dated collections).

I imagine if someone is familiar enough with the law, they might find that
some statutes about credit reporting are broad enough to apply to any credit
system, and these people might find themselves under indictment if the right
entities are alerted.

At a minimum, it's very fishy that a proprietary credit system is being used
and people are finding that they just happen to have bogus entries in that
system. It would be _really_ interesting to know the total number of companies
that use that system and to see the query and reporting history of each...

~~~
ubernostrum
This just seems like a property-rental equivalent of the "yo-yo scam" that car
dealers do.

The essence of the scam is they carefully let you think you're buying a car
when really you're just "applying" for a loan to buy it. They collect a down
payment, processing fees, etc., hand you the keys to the car and you drive
off... only to get it repossessed a day or two later when "the bank denied
your financing". And of course, all the money you gave them is non-refundable,
as spelled out in the paperwork you signed. Then they repeat with the next
sucker who walks onto the lot.

------
metaphorm
are people really so naive? maybe living in NYC has made me hard and bitter,
but shit, it's just a ground truth here that the landlords and the real estate
agents are not your friends and you should treat EVERY transaction done with
them with extreme scrutiny.

------
shiven
This has "class-action lawsuit" written all over it. Some smart lawyer just
needs to double down and get it together.

------
arrty88
Send this to John Oliver on last week tonight

------
reddytowns
This isn't a scam. The author admits they had an actual reason for denying
him. It was a mistake in his record and they charged an exorbitant processing
fee, but there is nothing that shows they acted in bad faith.

------
yaacovtp
I've used Corelogic as a landlord as well. Any applicant with a reported
history of non payment is a big red flag and would likely be denied. I'd
compare it to very late credit card payments or a charge off. Not a scam. The
employee doing the review would get in trouble for approving this application!

~~~
tradersam
> Any applicant with a reported history of non payment is a big red flag and
> would likely be denied.

Directly from the article:

> My application was denied due to their system show that some management
> company filed missing rent in 2011. Which is not true I have zero
> collections or public records.

The point is they were lying.

~~~
djrogers
Or the data was wrong.

~~~
dottrap
Most likely the data was wrong. The credit report industry has a 20% error
rate.

See the old 60 Minutes investigation on this.

[http://www.cbsnews.com/news/40-million-mistakes-is-your-
cred...](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/40-million-mistakes-is-your-credit-
report-accurate-25-08-2013/)

------
debacle
CoreLogic is not to blame here. They are a massive company. They would not be
scamming renters out of such small amounts.

~~~
floatrock
I heard or listened to an anecdote about how credit reporting would actually
be a perfect application for ML, but ML companies are fearful of stepping into
a minefield of "you can't do this" regulations.

If an algorithm found some correlation between your "credit worthiness"
(however their proprietary IP chooses to define it) and race or color of skin
(or some proxy of), then using that information would be (legally)
discrimination, say most legal experts speculating on a hypothetical (but
bound to happen eventually) case. The fact is, yes, ML could probably discover
a bunch of novel correlations that increase effectiveness by 7.8%, but since
we can't really describe what "model" or way of thinking about our world the
deep neural net is using, it's too easy to build a racist and discriminatory
credit report. Kinda like that microsoft twitter chatbot that had to be taken
down because it was learning from (and repeating) the racist garbage that a
bunch of trolls were feeding it. Point is, it's a minefield.

But it's going to happen. Someone's going to try it.

And that's what the dark side of these companies like CoreLogic is: when real
people's life events are influenced by the outcome of these databases, what's
a societally-acceptable error rate? And what mechanisms are in place to check
it?

Not saying CoreLogic is using racist ML credit bots. Not even saying the
problem here is racism. I'm saying we've decided to put rules in front of
credit reporting companies because, even if it's unintentional, it can lead to
outcomes we all decided "you know, we have these ideals we're trying to strive
towards and this isn't it." You also don't need a conscious conspiracy to
output a racistbot -- microsoft didn't _set out_ to make one, they just didn't
think to build in a troll filter.

So yeah, CoreLogic isn't scamming renters out of such small amounts, but they
are benefitting from an environment that allows such scams to exist.

Put another way, if there was some pending legislation that would make it
harder for these scams to work (eg CoreLogic being legally obligated to also
publicly report how many inquiries an inquirer has made with CoreLogic for the
purpose of this specific property), do you think CoreLogic would spend
lobbying money protecting their interests and preventing this at the expense
of the consumer? Of course they would, reporting regulations are a huge
operating expense! (wait... aren't you a company specializing in
reporting...?)

That's why the author made a few swipes at the less-regulated corner of the
credit report industry.

~~~
flukus
If it isn't fed the information then it can't discriminate. The meat and
potatoes of the issue seems to lie in the "some proxy of" clause. Is
unknowingly using some proxy for race really discrimination though? I'd
imagine several things could be used as this proxy to varying degrees,
everything from income to criminal history.

~~~
abeyer
> _I 'd imagine several things could be used as this proxy to varying degrees,
> everything from income to criminal history_

But I think you could also make a compelling argument that many of those
things are accurate proxies primarily due to the legacy of more overt
discrimination, and it would be difficult to impossible to disentangle that.

~~~
flukus
I would make that argument, but I'd also argue that modern companies shouldn't
factor in past injustices, things would get too messy too quickly.

~~~
abeyer
Life is messy. I think there's a fine line, but still a difference, between
factoring in past injustices and factoring in _current_ negative conditions
that resulted from past injustices. Throwing your hands up and saying "it's
too hard" seems a bit of a cop out for the latter.

------
hartator
I don't get why the property got so much flak. Okay, management seems bad and
communication seems to suck. However, background checks cost $50 each. So,
it's already $100, putting their profit to $150 for locking one appartement
for you for a few days. If you fail the background checks, it's your issue not
there. And maybe we just need a better system for background checks. Surely.

------
erik998
I think the building might not be ready for occupancy. Maybe there is some
holdup from a municipality, investor, contractor, fire inspection that is the
cause of the real holdup. They really should just return your money but please
remember, the person you dealt with also must deal with a large bureaucracy.
Maybe the company she works for thinks everything is OK and they just had a
series of bad tenants. When dealing with the company you need to remember that
person has no incentive in telling you no. At the end of the day they just
want a paycheck and will do whatever their bosses tell them to do, right or
wrong.

I believe CoreLogic was spun off from First American.

[https://www.corelogic.com/about-
us/news/asset_upload_file346...](https://www.corelogic.com/about-
us/news/asset_upload_file346_4004.pdf)

You may want to see if you are eligible to file a claim with your renter's
insurance policy.

As for CoreLogic, you will want to use all the debtor's rights laws at your
disposal. All those credit reporting laws apply to them, maybe small claims
court would be a good avenue. Small claims courts will usually squash any
unruly practices of a landlord.

The large rental management companies can be difficult to worth with as a
tenant. At the same time its easier for tenants because they have more tools
at their disposal especially in collecting minimal amounts of security
deposits and timely repairs. They can be difficult when trying to break a
lease, return deposits, or charging misc/extra fees. Sometimes there is no way
around it. You need to go into the situation understanding you will lose
money.

A good rule of thumb is more amenities => more fees => more problems!

