
Los Angeles' Booming Creative Class Lures New Yorkers - applecore
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/03/style/los-angeles-and-its-booming-creative-class-lures-new-yorkers.html
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mullingitover
Quality of life tip: Living within walking distance of your job is priceless.
I've been in LA for over nine years and never been more than fifteen minutes
from the office. I'd sooner move to another city than spend some significant
fraction of my life in traffic.

~~~
nathanvanfleet
Really? I always thought that was not possible in LA. I like living without a
car and having a semi-urban house with a backyard. Is that possible in LA? I
seriously would love to live somewhere like that.

I do iOS dev work, so I considered SF, but maybe 20 years ago...

~~~
wdr1
> Really? I always thought that was not possible in LA. I like living without
> a car and having a semi-urban house with a backyard. Is that possible in LA?

It's a rumor we spread to keep people from moving here. :-)

In LA, if you're going to live on side of the city & work on the other, you
definitely need a car.

However, if you live near were you work, you definitely can get away without
one. I've lived in Santa Monica, West Hollywood, & Pasadena (each for
different jobs). I still had a car, but I tend to use it 1-2 a month, to do
things like pick up friends from the airport, roadtrips to Vegas & what not.

It's definitely possible.

~~~
secabeen
The important thing to note is that unlike New York/Manhattan, LA hasn't
really had a downtown that is exclusively commercial property. Businesses are
scattered throughout the regions' major cities (LA, Pasadena, Long Beach,
Santa Monica, Irvine, etc.) That means that those commercial areas are
intermixed with housing, etc. This works great if you can land a near-
permanent job, then buy housing nearby. It's not so good if you can't afford
housing in the area your employer is located (the westside), or if your
employer relocates their HQ across town after you're bought your home.

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epoxyhockey
It seems like the Bay Area's creative class made a similar migration to LA a
couple of years ago.

[http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/210-they-got-the-neutron-
bomb-...](http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/210-they-got-the-neutron-bomb-los-
angeles-potentially-huge-rocknroll-year/)

[http://ww2.kqed.org/arts/2014/04/03/priced-out-san-
francisco...](http://ww2.kqed.org/arts/2014/04/03/priced-out-san-franciscos-
changing-values-and-artist-exodus/)

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methodover
This article really tempts me. About a year and a half ago, I moved to the SF
Bay Area. And since moving here I've been just, totally disappointed. There's
a tyranny of the useful here. Silicion valley loves boring B2B software --
your Slacks -- and boring social media products -- your Twitters -- and useful
but banal consumer products -- your Ubers, and it's just depressing.

We don't value fun here. Or art. Or games. Or films. We're like robots,
looking for useful things that make money, rather than something risky and
expressive and thoughtful. We've fallen in love with money.

Reading this article, it's refreshing. A city of artists. I wonder if I might
enjoy it to this city of gross utilitarians.

~~~
gooserock
The really depressing thing is that even just 6 or 8 years ago, San Francisco
_was_ about all those things. It had artists, it made films, it valued culture
and fun and creativity. I moved here 6 years ago for exactly those things, but
even then I noticed it was changing. Now the artists and filmmakers and
musicians have mostly left - moved to Oakland or LA or elsewhere. In a way,
our moving here destroyed the things we moved here for.

~~~
beatpanda
By God, one of you finally admitted it.

~~~
api
The places utilitarian careerists create are miserable alienating cultural
wastelands. As a result, they are repelled from the places they create and
drawn to "artsy" cities and neighborhoods. When they arrive they bid up the
price of real estate and drive out the natives. Rinse and repeat. If only the
humanities had any economic value.

~~~
kitsune_
That process is called gentrification.

~~~
api
It's a cycle. Once the artists and other culture creators are driven out, the
careerists move on and the descent begins.

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gdubs
Lived in LA for a decade. Fantastic city if you don't need to commute during
business hours, which are essentially any times between 7am and 8:30pm these
days.

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elangelcentral
They bury the lede: Los Angeles is pretty great if you don't have to commute
to work.

~~~
number1235
I don't think this is an article about people who work.

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anigbrowl
Artists and other creative people enjoy their work. That doesn't mean it's not
work, and hard work.

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bluthru
"When artists can’t afford to live in a city you can’t call that place a
“city.” What you have is a Workplace Housing/Dining Zone."

[https://twitter.com/johnroderick/status/590738232851181568](https://twitter.com/johnroderick/status/590738232851181568)

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nether
The outdoorsy opportunities of LA blow NYC out of the water. This is two hours
from LA: [http://i.imgur.com/xQfttik.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/xQfttik.jpg) (Mt
Baldy in the winter).

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olivermarks
slightly off topic but I'm always baffled by photo captions like the one in
this article "Hamish Robertson, an artist, with his wife, the writer Andi
Teran, at their home in Los Feliz"

Why is Hamish just 'an artist' while the other person is 'the writer' Andi
Teran? seems like some kind of bourgeois class system. Makes me suspect Andi
is a well heeled trustafarian and other isn't ...but then I'm a terrible cynic

~~~
mturmon
Robertson: [http://www.hamishrobertson.com/about-
me/](http://www.hamishrobertson.com/about-me/)

Teran: [http://anditeran.com/about/](http://anditeran.com/about/)

They both seem to be doing fine, but "from the deserts of West Texas" (Teran)
doesn't seem like the tagline of a trust funder.

The thing I have observed about LA artists and "creatives" who are featured in
the NYT is that they are well-connected, but not necessarily wealthy.

There tend to be repeats; i.e. one person's art will be reviewed one month,
and then five months later there will be a spread with their garden, or an
opinion piece on work/life balance that quotes them. I assume it's just
laziness, or (to be generous) keeping it simple by looking into a NYT pooled
rolodex for [LA] [artist] while under deadline.

Probably all it takes is a lucky encounter, or a well-timed press release, and
you're "in the system". It seems like Teran has linked to a couple of articles
about moving NYC->LA, and has a book coming out with Penguin in June, so
there's your peg.

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somberi
I live in NYC and the startup I had found before had an office in L.A. In fact
the first time I had ever been to L.A was to get that office / team running.

Here are my 2cents:

1\. At about 50% of NYC's economy, LA is the second largest GDP contributor.
So, one can expect all the pluses and minuses of a large economy. As a side,
economy of LA county alone will make it 21st largest "country" in the world by
economy.

2\. It helps to think of LA as a string of different "Cities", each unique in
one way or another. This is different than how NYC behaves. Yes, you can argue
that each neighborhood in NYC is unique, but by and large, NYC behaves like a
single organism.

3\. The people. It is just different, how people communicate, connect and
further an Idea in LA. It seems much more peppy, group-hug (not being cheeky)
kind of a collective progress, than the cut-and-dry of NYC. If you like that
sort of diffused but more social way of progress, you will like LA.

4\. Weather. All around it is nicer than NYC. But air quality is significantly
worse in LA than in NYC. If you are Asthmatic, or just breathing-in vile air
bothers you then LA may not be for you.

5\. Traffic. I took the Bus or walked in LA. I realized only poor people took
the Bus and no one walks (for commute. Not including the joggers).

6\. Cars are status differentiators in a way that most New Yorkers do not even
get. If a fancy $50K car is out of your reach, you need to get a Hybrid and
lean in on your green credentials.

7\. The Valets (they are everywhere) and Wait-staff are better looking in LA
compare to NYC (most of them are aspiring actors).

Source: Economy : [http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/09/here-
are...](http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/09/here-are-
the-10-biggest-us-cities-by-gdp-and-how-theyve-grown-since-2009/279833/) Air
Quality: [http://www.lung.org/press-room/press-releases/healthy-
air/SO...](http://www.lung.org/press-room/press-releases/healthy-
air/SOTA-2014-National-Press-Release.html)

------
beachstartup
lifelong southern californian and 10 year resident of santa monica/LA. i also
lived in san francisco for 2 years and have travelled the world extensively...
observations about the changing city/area:

* lots of new york license plates driving around in the last 5 years, indicating transplants. midwest/upper midwest states also.

* dining and entertainment has taken a major step forward in the past decade. it was never bad, but now it's really good in general. also, ethnic food has always been top notch but is now far more mainstream. food / culture enclaves exist but are frequented by the public at large, i.e. more integration. i see this in other large cities like new york and chicago also.

* public transit has improved in a major way. expo line (light rail from downtown to the beach) is opening next year and will have a major effect. uber also has amazing coverage everywhere, not surprising for a city full of cars.

* the bus system (and local subsystems) is probably the best in the country by a huge margin and is relied upon by probably millions of lower income people. it's very, very good and covers a massive area. it's probably the best bus system in the world, again not surprising for a driving city.

* commercial development was uncorked in the past few years and new construction is happening all over the city.

* the key is to live close to work, or to shift your hours. without traffic LA is extremely fast to get around whether in a car or public transit. it's the traffic that kills everything. lots of car enhtusiasts live in the city and drive around town or in the canyons early in the morning or late at night.

* traffic still sucks but there are many infrastructure projects to improve it. having said all that, people are still buying cars like mad. if you're into cars, it's like a car show every day. not just expensive, but rare, old, and unique custom-built cars too.

* anecdotally, when people leave LA, it's almost always for cheaper places i.e. portland, vegas, denver, etc. they only move to new york or other east coast cities when a lucrative or strategic job offer beckons.

* and last but not least.... downtown LA is now a legitimate downtown. it took 10 years of concerted effort by the powers-that-be, but it's a cultural destination and nice place to live now. a residential construction boom (you could buy a condo for < 100k at one point in the last decade!!!) has fueled a rise in shops, cafes, restaurants, bars, etc. in the downtown area. downtown is also the regional transit hub.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city)

~~~
facepalm
"relied upon by probably millions of lower income people."

That sounds odd, about the bus system. So if you can afford it, you pass on
the bus system? Why, if it is so great? Where I live I prefer public transport
over driving (cycling is best, though).

~~~
beachstartup
uh, because it's a bus. it moves at the same speed as traffic and costs a
dollar. wealthier people have cars and use them or uber. welcome to reality.

i'm so very sorry stating an obvious observable fact hurt your fragile moral
sensibilities.

many people of all means also bike in LA.

~~~
motxilo
> i'm so very sorry stating an obvious observable fact hurt your fragile moral
> sensibilities.

Why the patronizing? Asking why you don't prefer the bus when you deem it the
best in the world was actually a great question. Using your personal car also
makes you move at the same speed as traffic (duh) and obviously it costs you
more than a dollar.

~~~
anigbrowl
It's a stupid question. If you have a car you can go all the way to your exact
destination (+/\- some parking distance), put things in it, play the music of
your choice as loud as you like, hold private conversations, and enjoy greater
levels of comfort. If you have children, pets, or weighty items to carry, it's
vastly easier than getting on a bus. Also, you don't need to wait for a
vehicle to turn up on a particular schedule, you just get into your own. And
you don't have to stop every block or two to take on or drop off passengers.
And...

I like riding the bus/subway, more so than having a car. But the reasons many
people prefer cars are glaringly obvious.

~~~
facepalm
You have to look for parking, deal with traffic jams (maybe buses have extra
lanes, they would in the greatest bus system of the world). You don't have to
focus on driving but can read. You don't need to maintain a car.

And so on.

Granted in my city we also have subways. But the question really interests me,
because having to rely on a car would be a complete no go for me. So if that
is (still) the case for LA, it's not the city for me.

~~~
anigbrowl
I know all that, because as I explained, I personally prefer using public
transport. But other people have different use cases, and for many of them a
car is a superior solution. I don't think you have to rely on a car to live in
LA, but you're not going to enjoy it if you can't get to grips with the
concept that many people do like cars, for both their utilitarian benefits and
their very very obvious function as status indicators in a town built around
the entertainment industry.

~~~
facepalm
I can of course imagine reasons why people like cars. I was just surprised by
the distinction of poor people using public transport and rich people using
their cars.

Actually I consider it a privilege to not need a car. I pay for it with higher
rent, I suppose - living closer to the city center, and in a city big enough
to have public transport to begin with.

I have no idea what LA is like, does it have things like 8 lane streets? Seem
to remember hearing that years ago. That to me would look very outlandish, I
don't think I have ever seen an 8 lane road.

Maybe some LAians just can't imagine how different other cities are? Maybe in
LA parking space is not scarce, and neither is space on the roads (with 8
lanes). But in other cities it might be different, and the incentives for cars
change, not just because of ideology but because of circumstances.

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superdude12
Please see
[http://laist.com/2015/05/03/the_new_york_times_has_some_mixe...](http://laist.com/2015/05/03/the_new_york_times_has_some_mixed_f.php)
for why this article is annoying to Angeleños.

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happytrails
Please don't move to LA. Housing is already too expensive.

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alexnewman
Hipster class moving to LA. Wowsers!

