
Exercise by club swinging in the 19th century - apollinaire
https://publicdomainreview.org/essay/eastern-sports-and-western-bodies
======
UweSchmidt
Of course the fitness industry has already rediscovered these clubs and sells
stylish items under the 'functional fitness' category. But the more
'functional' a workout gets, the more one could wish there was real, physical
work to be done, the kind of work that reveals muscular deficiencies despite
regular gym workouts (often hand strength and endurance when working overhead)
and gives a different sense of accomplishment and satisfaction: shelves built,
home improved, practical skills acquired.

~~~
dirtyid
There's a reason we try to automate repetitive manual labor - it's dangerous
and detriment to long term health. The whole of human existence has been a
long march towards minimizing labour though we've definitely overshot to the
point where disease of affluence has become our foremost public health
challenge. That said, cultivating fitness in modern society should focus on
the least amount of labour for maximum individual and public health benefits.
An hour of strength training, some cardio per week to build individual
durability and cardiovascular health is probably the most sensible
prescription. A common anecdote between people who deadlift 600lbs and build
houses for a living is how much pain they live with in later life.

On the topic of clubs, these are surprisingly good prehab tools for shoulder
health.

~~~
troughway
An hour per week isn’t going to cut it. More regular physical activity is
needed to keep the body and mind in good shape. In speaking with
cardiologists, minimum 30 minutes a day. Obviously if you’re strength training
and lifting heavy you’re going above and beyond, so this is a loose
recommendation for people who don’t. The body acclimatizes to “moderate
intensity” quickly when you put it to the test.

Let’s not toss the baby out with the bathwater. Awhile back on HN there was an
article with a doctor who “prescribes” deadlifting, and I’ll butcher the quote
but he says: “I would rather prescribe them an increase in deadlifting weight
than an increased dose of blood pressure pills”.

Leisure is good. Finding a breath of fresh air in physical activity is better.

~~~
dirtyid
I think an hour a week is sufficient.

For me the guideline for general population should be basically intermediate
strength standards like the prescriptions by NASA, which are hilariously low
but calibrated to maximize muscle retention, mission capability and most
significantly reduce injury. Mission capability for gen pop is just to have
enough muscle so you don't shatter your hips during a bad fall or injure
yourself on rudimentary tasks (carrying your kids) that lead to expensive long
term care.

The NASA standard was something like bodyweight squats for 6-10s that most
people should be able to cultivate quickly and maintain with minimal effort.
The difference in space is they have to exercise for 2 hours a day to maintain
muscle mass, but on earth you can crack out BW or 1.5xBW squats/deadlift and
insipidly low bench/ohp for homework 3x10s in 30m sessions twice a week to
maintain. The bar is exceedingly low. Of course that varies depending on
genetics, but it's one of those situations where pareto principle comes into
play.

Cardio vascular health is different, but mostly it's a balance between NEAT,
actual cardio and maintaining a healthy BMI, while strength training maintains
an useful amount of muscle mass. Barbell Medicine podcast has a lot of good
info on strength training + rehabilitation. It's geared towards the
powerlifting crowd, but along your point, one of the broader prescriptions is
that frequently movement and exercise is better at healing than pills or other
medical interventions, but movement is very infrequently prescribed.

~~~
eru
The minimum of 30 minutes is for lower intensity exercise. Like taking a walk.

You can get pretty fit on two to three hours of barbell exercises a week like
you describe. But it still helps to add a walk about every day to stay sane.

And lowering the amount of time spent sitting on your butt seems to have a
separate and independent effect from exercise.

~~~
dirtyid
I'm suggesting 2x30m of fullbody compound exercises twice a week for general
population. Push/Pull/Legs using the least stressful lift variations per
individual anthropometry for 3x10,8,6 reps with 2-3 minute rest is enough for
most people to get 80% of where they need to be be if done consistently over
time. Some sort of cardio for heart health. Low intensity (NEAT) activity +
diet to manage weight to healthy BMI range. It's not training where you
maximize personal potential, more exercise / going through the motions of the
minimal routine for maximum benefit. It's not even designed to get people
"fit" but just healthy enough to be preventative against diseases of affluence
or common trauma like hip fractures that burdens health care and have
disproportionate impact on quality of life. Also pour research into steroids,
any low effort magic pill that enables people to retain lean mass later in
life with minimal side affects.

~~~
eru
Yes.

Lots of exercise regimes work to produce that kind of minimal level of
fitness.

At this level for the general population the challenge is to get people to
stick to it, not so much exactly which exercise regime they are doing.

VR games like Beat Saber might offer a reasonable chance to get people moving.
Even the original Wii Sports had people get off their couch for a while.

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ajoy
FYI, these are referring to the indian clubs from the indian subcontinent. In
india, they were mainly used by wrestlers in a wrestling sport called Pehlwani
:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pehlwani](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pehlwani)

Indian clubs used :
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_club](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_club)

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hourislate
As a kid I watched wrestling and remember the Iron Sheik doing some strange
things with what looked like giant rolling pins.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MycGlTq8Bb4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MycGlTq8Bb4)

Only recently did I learn (episode on JRE) how difficult it is and how much
strength it required.

~~~
chkaloon
God I miss old school pro wrestling. Hilarious.

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chkaloon
In Wisconsin there are still auditoriums named Turner Hall in some towns.
Monroe is one, and when I was a kid I always wondered who "Mr. Turner" was who
it was named after. My dad finally told me it used to be a gymnastics club,
and the members were called "turners".

~~~
swimfar
That comes from the German-speaking settlements/immigrants in Wisconsin. In
German the verb turnen is to exercise or do gymnastics. And a Turnhalle is a
place you go to do that.

~~~
eru
Turnhalle is still the common name for school gyms.

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0xff00ffee
As a former crossfitter: we did this, but we replaced the club with really
expensive boutique sledgehammers in neon colors with mean-sounding names.

Like the Rogue "Warhammer": [https://www.roguefitness.com/sisu-war-
hammer](https://www.roguefitness.com/sisu-war-hammer)

Or this Hannuman prop: [https://www.onnit.com/quad-
mace/](https://www.onnit.com/quad-mace/)

~~~
heavenlyblue
Why former?

~~~
0xff00ffee
I moved to a smaller town and there's only local one box which is populated
with the town's supply of douchebags. It's hit or miss: sometimes a crossfit
gym is a fun bunch of people, other times it's a bunch of head-butting-brahs
that make the whole experience awful.

~~~
eru
Yeah. Cross-fit is a franchise system, and they don't have much centralized
QC. So it's very hit and miss.

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csa
If anyone is interested in this type of exercise, you may want to check out
Scott Sonnon and his club bell work outs. The company is called RMAX, and the
programs are called “circular strength training”. I am not affiliated, but I
knew someone who was a big fan and customer.

My friend was really into it many years ago (he has since become less active).
He taught me a few basic things, and I really enjoyed the workouts.

Fair warning — RMAX is a typical modern workout marketing company — you will
get lots of e-mail, so you might want to make a unique e-mail address for any
products you buy. Some folks sound like cultists when they talk about him and
his workouts, although that may be more their issue than his. All that said,
the materials I read seemed to have some historical references (India, Iran,
lots of strongmen around the world, etc., but I didn’t check the accuracy).
The workouts were very good for me.

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Tossrock
This type of club swinging is still practiced (and advanced!) by jugglers and
flow artists - see for example the first 30 seconds of this performance by
Kyle Johnson: [https://youtu.be/7yoY6JI-RGo](https://youtu.be/7yoY6JI-RGo)

~~~
tomjuggler
Also artistic gymnastics, it's one of the props used in the Olympics. I have
an old pair of the gymnastics ones and they are deadly, feels like lead
weights inside the plastic! I'm told by a gymnast friend that the newer ones
have a soft rubber coating

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zwaps
Here in Germany, we still had those clubs in our school gymnasium.

I have never seen them used, and somehow assumed they were for bowling or
something silly like that. But it's interesting that they never really went
away!

It's not like they were leftovers from ye olde time. Someone, at some point,
ordered x amounts of clubs for the school gymnasium because they'd be part of
the basic equipment. Similar to these ubitiquous blue mats and the wooden
horsey thingys of which there were always more than anyone wood ever need.

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jhallenworld
The Vanderbilt's private gym in the Biltmore mansion (1895) has these:

[https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a8/e8/6d/a8e86d890a40c77cb4ba...](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a8/e8/6d/a8e86d890a40c77cb4bad49e1107d69a.jpg)

Also it has a swimming pool in the basement before chlorine- the entire pool
would be filled before use and drained afterwards. Heated of course. Also they
had a bowling alley..

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pnathan
The muscular Christianity thing is fascinating. Modern threads of it show up
in the football world where certain players or coaches are ostentatious about
their religion. Comes from that time(I have a few books about it).

I've worked a fair bit with kettlebells and some with the mace bell (an
stripped down gada), but never the 2h indian clubs. Curious about any
experience reports people have of them - what they really do for you vs other
weight tools.

~~~
girvo
I'd love to know what books! With the stay-at-home order I've got a lot more
reading time haha

~~~
pnathan
[https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0801058473/](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0801058473/)

Here's one book directly targeting the subject. But I know that some of my
other titles treat it en passant as well.

------
adonovan
In Iran there is a tradition that runs to the present day of swinging heavy
clubs, often to chanting, called zirkhuneh (house of strength).

See
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pahlevani_and_zoorkhaneh_ritua...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pahlevani_and_zoorkhaneh_rituals)

------
mirimir
Inspired by Stephenson's _Cryptonomicon_ , I do Aikido sword kata with a 2cm x
30cm steel bar. I move rather slowly, and don't put much momentum into the
bar. So the practice forces good form, in addition to maintaining strength.

Edit: Yes, _Snow Crash_.

~~~
elric
How heavy is the bar? I use a short suburi bokken; about 60cm, roughly 1.5kg.
Perfect for one handed practice in tight places.

~~~
mirimir
Oops, I was brain dead yesterday.

It's 90 cm long, and weighs about 2.1 kg.

------
elric
Using clubs of various sizes has been pretty common in the Japanese martial
arts for centuries as well. Mostly as a strength building tool.

Here's a littly YT video of an example using particularly large specimen ..
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=KnbaTYX2jE4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=KnbaTYX2jE4)

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paultopia
Strongman type workouts still use these today (typically in steel), along with
maces. You can buy them from the sort of suppliers that sell to crossfit gyms
and the like, e.g., [https://www.onnit.com/onnit-steel-
clubs/](https://www.onnit.com/onnit-steel-clubs/)

------
throwlaplace
Get a 20lb sledge and ~400lb tractor tire. Alternate flipping the tire and
using the sledgehammer on it. Almost better than any gym workout (it's what
I'm doing right now while my gym is closed). Your forearms will be so sore the
next day you'll barely be able to type (at least for the first few weeks).

~~~
damontal
How would one acquire a 400 pound tractor tire?

~~~
throwlaplace
There are places that sell used tractor tires

[https://www.ntstiresupply.com/what-we-offer/products-
supplie...](https://www.ntstiresupply.com/what-we-offer/products-
supplies/tires/agricultural-tires/used-tractor-tires)

Where to keep it is a completely different matter (it's quite obvious that if
you don't have the room for a home gym my advice is not useful for you).

~~~
saalweachter
You know, it just occurred to me that, despite growing up on a farm, I can
remember very few _used_ tractor tires; one was a raised bed and the other a
sandbox.

Probably has something to do with a lack of vehicle inspections for farm
equipment.

~~~
throwlaplace
i would bet the reason is the same that you very rarely see used car tires:
when you get new tires they take your old tires and restore them (to the
extent that they can) and then resell them. so most people never keep their
old tires.

------
user982
For more on the Newark Athlete of the opening:
[https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/06/25/edison-
labs-18...](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/06/25/edison-labs-1891)

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shrikant
This is still quite common in parts of India, where wrestlers train for old-
fashioned "kushti" matches in a "vyayamshaala". It literally means "exercise
school", and is basically a gym.

~~~
roel_v
The Dutch word for doing gymnastics is "turnen".

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biophetik
Created these awhile back. They worked pretty well and you can add sand for
more weight. [https://youtu.be/PQKsyqQPRpc](https://youtu.be/PQKsyqQPRpc)

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moron4hire
I was expecting this to be about vigorous dancing at nightlife establishments
and I wanted to know what 19th century nightclubs were like.

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ajmurmann
I've used these on occasion. They are an amazing way to get rid of shoulder
pain with very little exercise and are very convenient.

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omgwtfbyobbq
Reminds me of colorguard/winterguard.

~~~
progre
Reminds me of [http://www.shovelglove.com/](http://www.shovelglove.com/)

~~~
yellowapple
Well that explains what the hell my upstairs neighbors are doing every day.

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sashavingardt2
It's still all the rage! They are portable too. Perfect for a digital nomad!

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lotophage
When _swinger 's club_ referred to something else.

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Nerdfest
Excitedly read title of article. Disappointed upon discovering it's not that
type of club, nor that type of swinging.

