
How an undocumented immigrant from Mexico became a star at Goldman Sachs - dpc59
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-25/how-an-undocumented-immigrant-from-mexico-became-a-star-at-goldman-sachs
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trendia
Congrats to her for making it in the US!

However, it would have been exceptionally easy to get the required visas. Once
she was accepted into university, she can apply for an F student visa. It's
practically guaranteed for this visa to be granted -- there's no limit to the
number of admitted foreign students in the US.

Then, with good grades and an acceptance to Goldman Sachs (which she got), she
would have had little trouble getting a work visa. I know plenty of people who
have done that.

It's not necessary to go through the 10+ year process to become a _citizen_ in
order to be able to study and work in the US. And getting the visas would have
been far less stressful and allowed her to travel to see family in Mexico.

~~~
chrisper
You are still bound to the 65,000 visa cap of H1B. Nothing to do with skills
(sadly).

For any non immigration visa you have to prove you will leave the country
after you finish school (= visa expires). If she is here illegally that's hard
to prove. You also have to prove you can financially sustain yourself here.

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briandear
She committed identity theft or fraud and this should be celebrated? "She
bought fake papers."

That's a crime.

How is she get SEC licenses as someone who has admitted to fraud? Why would
Goldman not catch her fraud during their due diligence when hiring her? She's
being trusted with financial instruments as someone with a flagrant disregard
for the law?

She should be deported. If she's any good, she can trade derivatives on
Goldman's Mexico City desk.

For those here that would defend her -- are you suggesting we only follow laws
we agree with?

~~~
zerr
> are you suggesting we only follow laws we agree with?

By blindly following all laws we would still have slavery; holocaust would
have become acceptable; etc...

We should follow ethics, not some texts.

~~~
bcherny
That is a dangerous attitude for a society. If we disagree with a law, we
should change it. If we don't we breed a disregard for all laws, not just the
ones we disagree with.

~~~
zerr
> If we disagree with a law, we should change it.

Agree, but that doesn't happen instantly. Changes come time by time, after
occasional breaking unethical laws (while they are still active) - e.g.
unlawful freeing of slaves, helping Jews during Nazi regime, etc... These are
all examples of breaking unethical laws, which should happen and will happen.

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Banthum
An undocumented immigrant? So she was legally in the country, but with
paperwork incomplete? Or a refugee?

Oh no, they mean illegal immigrant - in this case, someone who violated the
law to make more money. Got it.

Every time I see the term "undocumented immigrant" I am horrified at how
easily people will thoughtlessly toss away the rule of law to serve their own
self-indulgent empathy.

Mexico today has more GDP/capita than New Zealand did in 1990. There's no
justification for encouraging the human trafficking and dangerous cross-desert
trips (often ending in death or rape or robbery) this way. Immigration should
be orderly and safe.

If someone wants everybody on Earth to have free access to America, they
should campaign to make that the law, and face the real consequences. This
"let it be illegal but keep the border-jumpers as our empathy pets" stuff is
self-indulgent and self-defeating on so many levels. Ugh.

~~~
elbasti
The mood affiliation is strong here... do you feel as strongly about the rule
of law when it comes to, I don't know, medical marihuana (the smoking of which
is a federal crime, since it's a schedule I drug).

The analogy is not entirely facetious: immigration is--like pot--a crime with
real economic benefit, and where any negative externalities are exacerbated by
knee-jerk prohibition. Take as an example wage depression due to immigration.
The less that undocumented immigrants can report unfair labor practices, the
more they are likely to be exploited for extra-depressive wages.

The same dynamic is present, for example, when it comes to prostitution (also
a crime). If you punish the prostitute instead of the john, prostitutes are
more likely to be abused, exacerbating the negative consequences of
prostitution.

(Again, the analogy goes deeper: the answer to immigration is the same as
prostitution or drugs or whatever: _tax the externalities_. If you really
think that some honduran woman scrubbing toilets for less than minimum wage at
a motel 6 is "bad for america", then you should jus _tax her_).

One other comment: you seem quite upset about the use of the phrase
"undocumented immigrant" instead of "illegal." There are Really Good reasons
why the first term is preferred:

1\. Not all undocumented immigrants are criminals. The only _criminal_ act is
crossing the border without permission. Overstaying a visa, or coming here as
a child, is emphatically not _criminal_. Yes, it's a deportable condition, but
not a criminal one. Undocumented seems to be a better description of that
situation--and unless someone has been tried, how do you know? 2\. Semantics
matter. Undocumented immigrants have rights, just like all people in America.
To refer to a human as as being "illegal" anchors the situation in a way which
makes it easier to treat them in a way where those rights are violated, and
_no one cares_. For example, _alleged_ illegal immigrants are not offered
counsel in immigration courts. Flagrant violation of their sixth amendment
rights. It somehow seems to be ok in the public consciousness because they are
"illegal."

I'm not advocating for open borders, or for amnesty or whatever. I'm just
asking you to think, critically, about the situation, and leave your mood
affiliation aside.

~~~
briandear
Someone working without a US social security number is working illegally.
Someone failing to pay income taxes is committing a crime. Filing taxes under
an incorrect social security number is also a crime.

Unless the "undocumented" are actually not doing anything, they are most
likely committing many other crimes including tax fraud, identity theft, tax
evasion.

"Undocumented" is a euphemism. Illegal alien is the correct legal term. And
let's stop using "immigrant" to refer to illegal aliens. That is an insult to
the thousands of legal immigrants.

Undocumented immigrant is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist.
Let's not legitimize illegal immigration by wrapping it into benign
terminology.

~~~
mrunkel
How do you figure that undocumented immigrants don't pay taxes? Since
employers are required to withhold said taxes in paychecks.

In any case, let's use some of this energy to making immigration policy that
works and we'll remove all the undocumented immigrants.

~~~
panda88888
I agree wholeheartedly that we should reform immigration policy.

Personally I don't care if the undocumented immigrants are paying taxes or
not. But as a former legal immigrant and now naturalized citizen, I would
really appreciate the government and civil rights advocates to focus more on
the legal immigrants and less on the undocumented.

I have a friend with PhD degree in biochemistry on F1 visa, and now on OPT.
He's been here for probably 9 or 10 years, starting from undergraduate to PhD
program. It's difficult to not view DACA with distain when he gets less
protection and privileges than those that has not gone through the legal
process. Especially with CA offering (not sure if still just talks) in-state
tuition while he has to pay for full out-of-state, not allowed to work (with
limited exception to working on campus), and only 1 year of OPT and playing
the H1-B lottery for work authorization.

I would support DACA and similar programs iff all legal immigrants currently
on the wait list gets precedence over undocumented immigrants. My simple
proposal was to grant whatever privilege the undocumented were to receive to
those on the wait list to empty it, and place the undocumented immigrants into
the now empty waitlist, with the understanding that they star with blank slate
to go through the legal way, but may not stay in the US if the legal
immigration path they are seeking doesn't allow them to stay in the US while
pursuing legal residence.

