
Nikola Motor Company - neverminder
https://nikolamotor.com/
======
eumoria
They could have tried a little harder with the name. It makes me take them
less seriously with a copycat name like they're not confident enough in their
product and need to glom onto Tesla's success. What an awful decision.

The truck looks neat, though.

~~~
speps
Thales, Edison, Siemens, Hertz, Westinghouse, Thomson, Ferraris, Maxwell, Bell
were already taken. They needed to go into first names now I guess :)

~~~
TwiztidK
Heaviside would've been decent, especially for a truck and ATV company.

~~~
daveguy
Heaviside would be a very negative connotation for trucks and ATVs. Most
people would think heavy-side or top-heavy, which is the opposite of what you
want a truck to be, and not Heaviside the engineer who lent his name to the
punniest function in mathematics.

~~~
Avshalom
Or they might think heavy-industry or heavy-duty, which would be a
good/neutral connotation.

...and heavy has stopped looking like a real word now.

~~~
robin_reala
Semantic satiation:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_satiation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_satiation)

~~~
gcatlin
Interesting page! It links to what is now my new favorite wiki page name:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffal...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo)

~~~
robin_reala
You might also like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion-
Eating_Poet_in_the_Stone_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion-
Eating_Poet_in_the_Stone_Den) then.

------
adamsch
The whole company looks a bit shady to me. The claims, the name, the renders,
no legal entity named, no info on founders/advisors/investors on the website
or LinkedIn, etc.

Also, why would you redesign the cabin from scratch if what's unique is the
drivetrain?

"NO COMPETITION"

"MANY TIMES CLEANER THAN DIESEL ENGINES"

"Nikola Motor Company is not currently accepting walk in visitors. After we
launch the vehicles at the live press release later this year, contact numbers
and locations will be provided for visits."

~~~
blakeyrat
The technology is legit, there's nothing preventing a company from building a
truck like this. There's a few things that bug me:

1) Why natural gas to run the turbine and not, say, diesel? It seems natural
to run the truck on diesel, if nothing else so the driver can hang out with
his friends and show it off at the local truck stop.

2) There's only renders, no photos. They haven't actually _built_ one yet? At
least that high-efficiency truck Wal-Mart was/is testing, they actually
_built_ the thing before they started crowing about it.,

~~~
nradov
In the US right now natural gas is slightly cheaper per mile than diesel.
Existing truck manufacturers have already started offering NG fuel vehicles.

~~~
blakeyrat
I wasn't aware of that.

I have no problem with making use of natural gas reserves, I just figured a
diesel option would make adoption easier on truck drivers.

------
mwfunk
The choice of name alone ensures that the first impression is of a copycat at
best and a scam at worst. Even if neither of those things are true and this
company is totally legit, the fact that whoever is behind this company chose
to use the name really kills their credibility. So, three possibilities here:

* The whole thing is a scam

* It's a copycat company

* The backers have money and/or connections but no taste or business sense

All from a name. Congrats guys, way to crater a business before it even gets
off the ground. It's like trying to compete with Ford by naming your company
"Henry".

------
JoshuaJB
The company's Facebook account only appeared on May 1st and their Twitter
sometime since then [1][2]. It also appears that their website only became
public on May 4th [3]. Given the recentness of their public presence, I would
not imagine that they were expecting this much publicity yet.

I think that they are legitimate because the "What's Inside" photo for the
Nikola One is definitely an export from a real CAD model [4]. And Google Image
search cannot find the photos they have on their social media profiles used
anywhere else besides when referring to them [5]. That said, they seem
distinctly in the prototype phase and have a long way to go before actually
shipping something. Tesla took 6 years to ship less than 150 cars. [6]

[1] [https://twitter.com/nikolamotor](https://twitter.com/nikolamotor)

[2]
[https://www.facebook.com/nikolamotorcompany](https://www.facebook.com/nikolamotorcompany)

[3]
[http://whois.domaintools.com/nikolamotor.com](http://whois.domaintools.com/nikolamotor.com)

[4] [https://nikolamotor.com/one#safety](https://nikolamotor.com/one#safety)
(my dad does mechanical engineering, and the only place I've seen pictures
like the one on Nikola's page is in CAD exports)

[5] (monster URL, had to shorten)
[http://tinyurl.com/zsvt8hx](http://tinyurl.com/zsvt8hx)

[6]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Motors#History](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Motors#History)

------
larrik
I thought this was a joke, and I'm still not sure...

~~~
tadzik_
I kept looking for a note saying that it's a sub-company of Tesla, and I still
think that it is.

~~~
mwfunk
Well, it's pretty obvious that that's one of the impressions they are trying
to create, but it's almost disturbing that anyone would jump straight to that
conclusion without passing through many, many, many stages of suspicion and
research first.

------
lumberjack
At the very least this early on you should have some page listing all the
people involved and their qualification along with any investors involved. It
gives you legitimacy. As it stands this screams vapourware to me.

~~~
Aelinsaar
The name doesn't help at all either, as other posters have mentioned it seems
cheap and desperate.

------
xphilter
My scam meeter is off the charts. It's exactly like Tesla except no tangible
product, no funding, no founder with a proven track record, and way too many
details.

~~~
partisan
Reminds me of Infinium for some reason.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_Entertainment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_Entertainment)

------
calebsurfs
I found it odd how difficult it was to figure out what the company's products
are: a CNG powered hybrid semi truck and an all terrain vehicle. (Not clear
why its a UTV instead of an ATV).

UTV = Utility Task Vehicle

"UTVs differ from all-terrain vehicles (ATVs) in that UTVs typically have a
side-by-side seating arrangement, many have seat belts and roll-over
protection, and most have a cargo box at the rear of the vehicle. UTVs
generally have a higher payload capability and are longer and wider than
ATVs"[0]

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Side_by_Side_(UTV)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Side_by_Side_\(UTV\))

~~~
JacobJans
ATVs have a very different market – with different needs. UTVs are for
commercial use, where a high payload is useful, such as construction. It's
clear they're not a consumer company, which is why they aren't offering an
ATV.

~~~
blakeyrat
I was just thinking an electric UTV like that might be _perfect_ for the
National Parks system. I bet they have a million uses for such a vehicle, now
instead being filled by noisy, offensive, gas-burning UTVs.

------
tcoppi
Interesting that they went with onboard CNG generators that are directly
charging batteries. Those types of generators are a proven reliable
technology, and batteries seem to have proven mostly reliable in Tesla
products, so I can see their longevity claims of 2x higher than diesel trucks
being at least plausible.

~~~
protomyth
CNG fuel points are actually fairly common since multiple car manufactures
have CNG vehicles (mostly fleet vehicles).

~~~
beeboop
Yeah, but how many of them can accommodate several trucks coming through each
taking 150 gallons?

~~~
protomyth
I would imagine quite a few since they were designed to fill multiple buses
and some farm vehicles.

------
sah2ed
Apparently, the Nikola Motor Company is a Utah-based startup. According to
[1]:

 _" The company is run by Trevor Milton, a former executive at dHybrid
Systems, which developed a CNG system for tractor-trailers that’s now owned by
Worthington Industries."_

[1] [http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2016/05/11/nikola-motors-
slee...](http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2016/05/11/nikola-motors-sleek-hybrid-
semi-is-tesla-trucks/)

------
jpm_sd
Wrightspeed ([http://www.wrightspeed.com/](http://www.wrightspeed.com/)) is
way ahead of these guys.

~~~
Glyptodon
All their products seem target at city stop-n-go usage for some reason. Which
is an interesting contrast. (As is already having physical
products/prototypes.)

~~~
zardo
Because that plays to an electric vehicles strengths (torque, energy recovery,
noise and air pollution levels), and avoids their weakness(energy storage
capacity and charge time).

Noise levels may actually be the big one, as it can allow a crew to work in
designated quite hours which some communities have.

------
mtw
It looks like one of those kickstarters with shiny graphics and nice numbers
that will get a few millions ... and then disappear in the wild for years

~~~
runholm
Funfact: reddit.com/r/shittykickstarters/ is larger than
reddit.com/r/kickstarter

------
valarauca1
I want to list all the things wrong with this project. But the Automotive
Industry does need to be disrupted so even horrible execution may work.

If the founders need a software engineer with experience in emission testing,
fuel economy testing, info-tainment programming, and engine control
programming email: codylaeder@gmail.com based in Detroit willing to relocate
(but you appear based there too).

~~~
deadlycrayon
What? Did you just mildly insult the project and then ask for a job?

~~~
Syntaf
It's .... like negging a corporation for a job. This is absurd

------
arcticbull
Site looks super shady, however the technology could work. They're pitching a
series hybrid CNG (they do call it fuel agnostic and state Diesel would work
too) turbine-electric truck. Very similar to the way hybrid Diesel trains
work.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_train](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_train)

~~~
frankus
This does smell a bit like a "throw together a lot of high-tech buzzwords"
design exercise more than a real product.

First, series hybrids are generally a bad idea for road-going vehicles, where
a mechanical link is a) pretty straightforward and b) a lot more efficient at
cruise, which is where fuel economy really matters for most applications.

Secondly, gas turbines are primarily an advantage where power-to-weight ratio
is important (much more of a concern in, say, a helicopter than a heavy
truck). They are generally less efficient than diesels, especially at the size
needed to power a truck, and even more so when running at less than full
power. (Incidentally, diesels are pretty trivial to convert to run on CNG).

This approach (minus the energy storage) has been tried for locomotives and
found to be lacking:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_turbine_locomotive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_turbine_locomotive).

------
TylerE
Total vaporware. Their claimed performance is just ridiculous - they propose a
massive hauler truck with 4x the battery capacity of a Tesla Model S while
getting...5x the range? and 4x the HP.

~~~
zaphoyd
It is not a fully electric system like the Model S. The drive system is
electric but the electricity itself comes from an onboard CNG turbine. The
battery just acts as a buffer and place to store regenerative breaking energy.

------
TheBiv
So I can reserve a truck for $1,500 and an ATV for $750. I know it's just the
reservation fee, but it doesn't make any sense to me.

~~~
exhilaration
Based on the fact that every image on the site is a digital rendering, I'm
going to guess they need the reservation fees to actually build the first
vehicles.

~~~
TheBiv
Yeah, definitely!

That is also what's confusing about the reservation price. If I was a buyer of
trucks on a fleet, you can be darn sure that I'm paying more than $1,500 to
land a truck.

~~~
kerryfalk
Many trucks are owned by the drivers and not part of a fleet. I don't know
what the ratio is nationally but I can say locally it's probably in the range
of 50%, maybe even more are owner-operators vs. company fleet. So this pricing
model would make sense to target that market.

------
stevewilhelm
All it seems to be missing is a billionaire rocket scientist founder.

------
taylo5
I think this is very legit, and when we see a built prototype, which they
project by the end of the year, it could be a game changer in fleets. If you
research the owner (Trevor Milton), you'll find he started a company called D
Hybrid. It involved natural gas conversion technology of diesel systems. It
was bought by Worthington Industries, a publicly traded company, so he was
able to pass that test. This seems like a logical profession of an innovator.
The name does seem like a miss step, but they aren't a direct competitor with
Tesla motors (at this stage). I'm only basing this on what I can trace about
the founder and I'm thinking the founder is an innovator that knows what they
are doing. As they say, build it and they will come. They'll call you crazy or
a fraud until you do. My bet is this is very real and we'll know relatively
soon.

------
andr
This appears to be a CNG hybrid-electric truck, not an electric one. Hybrid-
electric buses (diesel or CNG engine generates electricity for electric motor,
which spins the wheels) have been around at least for a decade. What's
different/new about this?

Also, from memory, burning CNG generates about half the pollution of burning
diesel.

------
djaychela
Not sure where to begin with this, looks like a complete scam to me, and
looking at the spec of the zero buggy, it claims 20" suspension clearance
(this would be travel, not clearance), and that the regenerative braking means
you can corner "2-3x" faster.

Knock knock. Who's there? Physics.

------
salimmadjd
The Truck seems very interesting, if real, they claim it is [0]

With the range of 1000 miles A - it can provide enough distance for arriving
at a cargo bay; B - enough distance before the driver is required to rest (at
50mph that's about 20 hours of driving) and can recharge the truck.

Aside from the obvious environmental impact (as long as the electric source is
not coal), an electric truck makes it an easier pathway for having autonomous
trucking.

[0]
[https://www.facebook.com/nikolamotorcompany/photos/a.1758627...](https://www.facebook.com/nikolamotorcompany/photos/a.1758627627685897.1073741828.1739715679577092/1758897084325618/?type=3&theater)

~~~
ieatfood
The truck doesn't recharge -- it fills up. It carries a tank of fuel (natural
gas being the main one they're promoting) and has a generator to charge the
battery.

------
mikestew
Reminds me of the scene in _Boiler Room_ when the guys from J. P. Morgan
stroll into the bar and later point out that the firm in the movie, J. T.
Marlin, is named such so as to try and sound like a stock firm people have
heard of.

------
bitwize
The name is too similar to Tesla. Tjey should choose another.

I hear Infinium Labs is no longer taken.

------
taylo5
Listed are former patents by the founder Trevor Milton at his prior company
dHYBID, which was purchased by a publicly traded company.
[http://patents.justia.com/inventor/trevor-
milton](http://patents.justia.com/inventor/trevor-milton)

Here is the dHYBRID website, now under Worthington.
[http://worthingtonindustries.com/Products/On-board-
Fueling/C...](http://worthingtonindustries.com/Products/On-board-Fueling/CNG-
Fuel-Systems)

------
lowlevel
I'm 100% sure this is a complete scam. I'm also sure the person behind it is
fairly young and inexperienced in the art of ripping people off.

------
kpwagner
I don't think the site looks "shady" as many have said. It just has some shady
information: to anyone with half a brain, it's clear you are not getting whole
story. My impression is the company is insecure about their product and
ability to execute, so they are overcompensating with big promises and
deception. Shame really; because for all we know they are smart and well-
intentioned.

------
dammitcoetzee
Oh. Not so far fetched from an economics standpoint. We've been burning
natural gas into the air for years because there's no demand for the supply.
Build a product to create the demand for a surplus thing that needs a market.
Big trucks are understood. Battery systems at this scale are understood, also
natural gas motors that run at this size are understood. It's imminently
buildable.

~~~
HillaryBriss
> there's no demand for the supply huh?

but, natural gas has, like, a positive price and people buy it to heat their
homes and stuff.

------
codeulike
Where an EV would really work is farm tractors. They sit in a shed 20 hours
per day and occasionally do a few hours intensive high torque work.

------
eistrati
Nice try to use Tesla's success and nail couple of millions (to be read: US$)
for nothing. The difference is Tesla already produced other cars, that's why
people invested in something that it's not produced yet.

Disclosure: I'm not a Tesla owner, neither gave deposits for any of their
cars, which I find very stupid, but it's not my money :)

------
manigandham
With all the shady companies with questionable tech going around, it's about
time we agree on a simple test:

Show us the proof. Either a prototype or a model or something that physically
works. Until then it's all dreams/vaporware/scam depending on how dubious it
seems.

------
nealabq
Is it legal to replace the side mirrors with cameras? (Needs bigger displays
for the driver.)

~~~
Someone1234
Other manufacturers have already done so. Honda being the biggest (see Honda
Landwatch). So, I'd imagine that it is.

~~~
djrogers
Lanewatch doesn't replace anything - the mirror is still there, you just get a
different/possibly better view on the internal screen to accompany the mirror.

------
ericHosick
> Never plug in - Turbine charges batteries automatically while driving.

How does that work?

~~~
tobz
There's conventional liquid fuel on board -- gasoline, or diesel, or
compressed natural gas -- that allows a turbine to run, which in turn drives a
generator, which in turn charges the batteries.

Same thing as the hybrid cars with an internal combustion engine that recharge
the batteries, but just in a better, more efficient way.

~~~
niels_olson
Standby for some serious noise complaints.

~~~
tobz
Eh? I'd be surprised if the proposed gas turbine was THAT loud. We're not
talking afterburning turbofans from a fighter jet, or anything.

~~~
beeboop
Counterpoint: the tiny turbine Jay Leno has in his motorcycle is tremendously
louder than even the loudest semi truck.

~~~
tobz
Fair. It depends on the output of the turbine they might use. Various articles
about Jay Leno's EcoJet car also says that they were looking into ways to add
an "intake" muffler, also citing that the Chrysler turbine car seemed to
manage to quell the intake noise.

Totally valid concern, but I'm sure they'd be able to manage to quiet it down
enough. If it's quieter under braking than typical semis that use jakebraking,
it could be a win.

------
wyldfire
> our electric semi truck can stop nearly 2x faster than any other semi truck
> on the market

I suppose it becomes even more critical to make sure the load is well secured
within the hold.

~~~
avs733
They don't note from what speed and that seems like a basic physics violation
to me on several points.

1 - the mass of the vehicle doesn't change significantly (they claim a 2k lb
reduction in cab weight)

2- the limiting factor in truck accidents I have seen is tire grip not braking
capacity

I would love for this to be real, I think it is an idea with great potential
and a useful and disruptive use of hybrid technology...but this company sounds
like pure vaporbsware to me. They claim typical rigs last 500k miles which
seems seriously low to me

~~~
LeifCarrotson
They may be measuring engine braking. Many trucks use Jake brakes to slow down
and save their regular brakes, especially on downhills. A regular engine brake
only slows you down a little, and isn't nearly traction-limited. I imagine
that an electric regenerative braking system could be friction-limited.

~~~
avs733
yeah I assume it is something like that but I just don't see how that gets
expressed in feet.

------
hardlianotion
They look wonderful to the casual eye, but the map of their fuel coverage
tells me that nobody is going all the way cross-country without carrying their
own topups.

------
excalibur
Was poor planning to use the name "Nikola Zero" for their electric dunebuggy
when it clearly should have been saved for the self-driving semi cab.

------
Glyptodon
I feel like perhaps a lot of the comments here are being a tad overly
dismissive because a) Nikola as a name is bit of a rip on Tesla (and I imagine
will eventually lead to a TM suit of some kind), and b) because it's not more
obvious that the vehicle is CNG -> Electric and not just an EV.

That said, who knows if they'll successfully make it to market. The premise
behind the truck sounds quite reasonable, though I don't really get the UTV,
but that's maybe because I associate similar vehicles with Dudes going on
proctored hunting expeditions.

------
fiatjaf
So the door doesn't open? I don't want this.

------
perseusprime11
This is the kind of thing that gets me. If they cannot work harder on the name
then how hard will they really work to realize their product...

------
demarq
I wonder what it would sound like? The spooling of a gas turbine together with
the whirl of 2000hp electric motors...

------
jondiggsit
The website, the products, the CG... all makes me think this is nonsense.

~~~
yaur
If its nonsense and they are taking money (which they try to do, but they
don't filter test cards before it hits the processor) a better term for it is
"scam".

------
pmarreck
Name is terrible. Someone already took that name, guys.

------
awestley
April (May) Fools?

------
neves
Is it a joke with (Nikola) Tesla?

------
patrickg_zill
Truckers are pretty conservative.

I don't see an owner-operator being willing to buy one, since if it fails on
the road it could take a day or more to get it fixed/replaced.

However, I do see 2 markets for the vehicles:

1\. Trucking that has a defined area of operation such as say, the truck that
does local deliveries in a city covered by a listed CNG center; or a point to
point route.

In such a case the long haul truckers will deliver to a big warehouse; then
another trucker will load up for deliveries locally. E.g. ice cream, lettuce,
carrots delivered by 3 diff. trucks to warehouse; then 1 truck to deliver a
mix of these items to each local store in a grocery store chain .

2\. For the Zero, there are lots of park rangers that right now have pickup
trucks - they drive around the same city or state parks all the time and have
2 way radios. Since they can't go fast anyways, like 10 or 20 miles an hour,
the range limitation won't kill them.

------
ommunist
Though something in their pitch reminds me some superpower notebooks
"L-something" 15 years ago, that were never produced, so I am a bit sceptical
about the reality of this promise. But I wish them luck.

------
lafar6502
but why electric? why not a normal, LPG or CNG combustion engine? LPG bus
fleets are quite popular in Europe so these engines should also be able to
power trucks without the need for hybrid drive.

------
bimbobimbojoe
They had me at "Aluminum"

