
EU Agrees on `Blue Card' to Lure Qualified Migrants - dangoldin
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=aUJwDpsrOzE4&refer=europe
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geebee
Sounds like this will cause problems similar to the H1B. The comments here
have already shown this.

Programming is hard, and it's hard to get people to do it for you unless you
pay them a lot. Even then, you don't necessarily get people to do it for you.

So you figure, well, there are a lot of people overseas who I could hire. So
we need to create a program to hire them.

But then it turns out there is still a concept of citizenship, which is
normally required to live and work unencumbered in a particular nation.

So they say, well, sure, let's just let them in as long as they promise to
work in this profession for this employer.

But now, you have two people doing the same job next to each other at the same
desk, and one of them can change fields, move to a new city, take a new job,
and do all those things we normally associate with freedom. And if an employer
doesn't allow him or her to do these things, they'll change fields, take a new
job, or move to a new city.

So eventually the employer discovers that the restricted and unfree workers
are easier to keep around, and you don't have to pay them as much. This starts
to set the salary and working standards, so they people who are free start to
avoid the field.

Which makes it harder to get the free citizens to do the work, which makes it
hard to get people to do programming for you.

But then you figure, well, there are people overseas I could hire, so we need
to expand the program so I can hire them...

It's totally broken. A traditional concept of citizenship and a global
workforce don't really work all that well together. Something is going to have
to give.

~~~
wheels
It was interesting experiencing that first hand. Not so much the exploitation,
but the awkward position that you're put in when quitting your job could mean
losing your entire life. I stuck it out at my last job for about a year longer
than I was really comfortable with because I didn't want to take the chance of
jeopardizing my permanent residence papers. I gave my notice within a couple
weeks my permanent residence going though (and naturally, shifted over to
working on my startup, another thing that was impossible for me to do
previously :-) ).

~~~
geebee
I've experienced it only second-hand, but I sure have been close to the
problem. I don't blame you for sticking it out, you'd be crazy not to.

I recently left a company that moved the office about 50 miles south through
heavy traffic. It also decided, amazingly enough, that telecommuting was
"bad", so they banned it (not even one day a week). Yep, everyone who lived 50
miles away is not obligated to drive in to work every day. They severely
diluted everyone's stock, and implemented a bonus plan that was so weak it was
embarrassing.

Almost all of the UC citizens have left. But the H1B's are still there. I
don't blame them, they'd be crazy to leave and jeopardize their visas and
green card applications. But it really makes me sick that my government
essentially allowed private corporations to essentially control a worker's
right to reside in the United States, along with hopes for becoming a citizen.

The funny thing is, I'm pretty libertarian. In my opinion, businesses should
be free do do all that crap that my last company did if that's what they want
to do. Nobody owes me a job on my terms, just as nobody owes my former company
a talented employee on their terms.

That's how free markets work, but the H1B has proved to me that businesses are
_not_ in favor of free markets, they're in favor of regulation that benefits
them. When workers gain too much power - not through unions, not through
government regulation, but through value - the corporate world will absolutely
seek legal systems that give them control over things like visas and green
card applications.

Makes me worried. I grew up in SF, so of course I've had plenty of socialists
in my life saying things like "if democracy could change anything, it would be
illegal..." but really, you have to say the same thing about free markets.
It's pretty clear that when they threaten the establishment, the big corps
will do everything they can to ensure that free markets are illegalized.

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biohacker42
Or they could allow East Europeans like me to work. Then I would not have come
to the US.

But ya' know what, you didn't want my poor over educated Eastern ass a few
years ago, so I came to America, no regrets, fuck you people.

~~~
wheels
From everything that I've gathered, in Germany at least, the process is less
brain-dead than in the US. It's still brain-dead, but there's less insult
added to injury.

(Saying this as an American with permanent residence in Germany.)

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jwilliams
The competition for skilled migrants is going to heat up. I think in 10 years
many european countries and US states will be desperate for workers -
particularly countries like Italy where population is aging rapidly.
<http://longevity-science.org/Population_Aging.htm>

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hernan7
No path to citizenship? Not interested, sorry.

~~~
pmjordan
Most, if not all EU countries have provisions for obtaining citizenship after
a certain number of years of residence. Or do you mean gaining citizenship
after a certain number of years in _any_ EU country?

~~~
ardit33
Yes. Like in germany, where it takes about 16 years of living there to get a
citizenship, and since you were not born there, you will always be a second
class citizen, always. Plus in a typical racist/ethnocentric way, you have to
renounce your motherland's country's citizenship. No, thanks.

There is a real good reason USA attracts smart immigrants in droves. Even with
the latest problems after 2001, this country will be able to attract more
foreigner than any other country in europe.

~~~
fbailey
Germany 8 years ( with an immigration course 7 years - very good knowledge of
german 6 years) - US 5 years. If you don't like germany got to the UK.

~~~
wheels
Details are here:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nationality_law#Naturali...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nationality_law#Naturalisation_as_a_German_citizen)

Permanent residence is a load of paperwork, but still fairly straightforward
if you've been working in Germany for 5 years and as of the latest laws gives
you the right to work and live anywhere in the EU.

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brentr
Good. I'll get my post at CERN and then work on getting citizenship.

