
Ask HN: If you're so smart how come you're not rich? - SMAAART
Does anyone else feel this way?<p>I don&#x27;t know about you, but I am smart. I know I&#x27;m smart, I am told that I am smart, I do smart things but . . .   I am also old, and all my life I have worked (mostly) for people who were not smart as me, and somehow they:<p>* were my boss<p>* had a better&#x2F;faster career<p>* or .... they owned the company<p>I am old now, but I can still kick some ass, and that&#x27;s what my intention is.<p>When I was younger I was:<p>* insecure: some of that shit still lingers.<p>* anxious: yeah, this is related to the shit above, but I wanted to highlight it. And while I am over it, some of that shit still lingers<p>* more smarterer #LOL<p>* more courageous, in a way.  Now that I am less anxious and more secure, I seem to have lost the hump!<p>Any tips for me how to overcome the snart-complex, kick my own ass, and start making money?
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theonemind
Smart doesn't really get you that much. I compare it to height for a
basketball player. Realistically, you're not gonna make NBA if you're not over
6' tall, but that's just the buy in. After that, it's just grueling hard work,
and everyone else is 6'\+ as well.

So, as a first step, count intelligence as nothing more than a (very) rough
constraint on what you might possibly accomplish, but nothing more. It covers
the ante, but not the hand.

~~~
murm
This is a good comparison. Just because you were born with genes that make you
6' tall does not mean that the world should somehow automatically lay itself
out in front of you. You can try to make it in the NBA, but you're still going
to work like hell because you're competing against all the other people who
also happened to be born with those tall genes. Ditto for intelligence.

------
ptmcc
Define rich?

By most metrics I am rich, just not private jet 0.1% rich.

I work at a big tech company and make >200k/yr. I have few financial worries.

At this point I’m not primarily motivated by more money. Sure I’ll take it,
but at this point I’d sooner spend my time and energy on other more important
things. Family, friends, hobbies, etc. The financial security to focus on
those things makes me feel pretty rich.

Am I not smart for being satisfied working for someone else and rarely working
more than 40hrs/wk?

~~~
federicosan
For me, rich is someone who does not need to work. Someone who can retire at
any given moment.

~~~
mfalcon
When I was in my twenties, I used to think about getting enough money in order
to retire young. Then I realized that I actually enjoy working and I don't see
myself sitting on my ass doing nothing.

What I want is enough money to say no to work I don't really like, enough
money for allowing me to choose what to do with more liberty.

~~~
ptmcc
Why do so many people view "retirement" as sitting on your ass doing nothing?
It is a weird cultural stereotype, perhaps perpetuated to glorify work
culture.

This is probably why the term "financial independence" was coined, to break
away from this misconception.

Retirement/financial independence is not needing the paycheck anymore. It's
owning all of your time to use how you want.

There are plenty of "retired" people that don't sit around on their ass all
day. They've retired from the full time rat race but are very much active,
doing what they want to do. It might even still sometimes look like "work",
but it is on their terms.

~~~
mfalcon
Yes, "sitting on your ass" was not the best way to describe what I wanted to
say. I don't want to use all my time to do only what I want, I also want to
make something valuable for other people.

~~~
kyawzazaw
"FIRE" people do something valuable too, totally up to their choice. I think a
good example would be like ashton kutcher creating thorn.

~~~
mfalcon
Sure but what's the path that ends with FIRE? If you're lucky you can maybe
work on things you like, earn a good amount of money and then have enough to
be financially independent.

But if you have to slog at boring jobs for a lot of years in order to
accumulate that big pile of money allowing you to become FI you'll have to
consider if it's worth it. Maybe after being FI you'll keep working but you'll
have the privilege to choose only jobs or projects aligned with your needs and
desires. If that's the case: is it worth it the years and years working at
boring jobs? do you really need to be FI if you'll keep working after?

I'm not against having money on the bank, my approach is having enough to live
several years without income, allowing me to reject things I really don't
want. But I don't want to spend years just trying projects with no results, I
want to do things valuable for other people and getting money in exchange is
the way to be sure you're actually doing it.

~~~
kyawzazaw
> But if you have to slog at boring jobs for a lot of years in order to
> accumulate that big pile of money allowing you to become FI you'll have to
> consider if it's worth it.

It's not mutually exclusive.

> my approach is having enough to live several years without income, allowing
> me to reject things I really don't want.

This is what "FI" part means. the financial independence.

~~~
mfalcon
Yes, it's not mutually exclusive, that's the point. If you enjoy your day to
day life and you are able to accumulate enough to be FI amazing, but I don't
think it's worth it to spend several years at dreadful places in order to be
FI in the future.

I understand financial independence as "having enough to retire without
needing any more income", so the amount of money is not the same.

------
UK-Al05
Smarts gets you to be upper middle class.

Taking on a lot of risk, pushing yourself to the limit gets you to be rich.

~~~
brmgb
Realistically being born rich get you to be rich.

But I agree that the main thing separating an employee from a founder is that
one actually started a business. I disagree about the whole pushing yourself
to the limit thing however. If you found a business or try to build a career,
you are in it for the long haul. Sustained effort is what you need.

Generally when I see people complain about things they haven't achieved, I see
two problems: posture and outlook. Posture is simple: if you want things to
happen, you have to stop waiting for them to happen and actually take step to
make them happen.

In my opinion, outlook is generally the main problem however. Just stop
casting a bad light on what you have already done and put forward the good the
part instead. Enjoy what you have achieved and start working on what you want
to do next. What's done is done anyway. Also it's easier to convince people to
do things with you when you have a positive outlook.

Anyway, if you are pondering why something didn't happen to you, unless you
are looking for the reasons you failed in order to improve, you are most
likely asking the wrong question. Start looking forward rather than backward.

~~~
noxer
>Realistically being born rich get you to be rich.

I rather think being born rich gives you a different risk tolerance and that
raises your chance of becoming rich(er).

------
brookshalladay
First, being smart has little relation to riches. It can be a liability. Why?
Because there are dozens of other factors that are way more important. Other
people have listed many of them. By framing this the way you did, says a lot.
I have been there too though so don't feel bad. Getting rich is a bit of a
mystery and an art.

Here's some qualities or skills that can be key based on my experience:
emotional intelligence, team building, strategy, understanding people,
networking, solving real human problems, marketing, desire and determination,
risk taking, timing, luck, commitment, likability, confidence, purpose,
leadership, finance, understanding markets and trends, design, branding,
execution (endless work and crazy hours), speed, connections to people with
money... it goes on and on. You can't really have all of these so in the end,
you have to work with people that do and figure out which you need to develop.

We all have ego. Ego tells us how smart and great we are to ourselves. It
discounts other people, their qualities, blinds us to where we really need to
improve, etc. It is the enemy of progress 80% of the time. We all really know
a lot less than we think. The world is complex, changes, and moves fast.
Starting out with average intelligence, but a commitment to learning
aggressively and meeting people and treating them well is 1000X better place
to start. Doors open for that person.

There are multiple ways to get rich. But most revolve around business.
Businesses are almost never run or created by smart engineers or super
technical people. It just so happens that most of us are in technology so it
seems like it. But in reality, there's millions of businesses out there that
make unbelievable money that have nothing to do with tech. Even tech companies
need a lot of people with different qualities other than engineering or simply
smart people.

Other ways to at least do well while working a regular job: investing, real
estate, side hustles, saving money, etc. In the past 20 years, if I put more
aside into stocks and real estate I would easily have $1.5M to $2M. Hitting
base hits consistently is often the way to go.

I always have wanted to get rich to solve the money problem. It won't happen
until I focus on adding real value to other people. It can't be about me.
Which also means it can't really be about getting rich. That can only be one
underlying motivating factor but primarily it has to shift into focusing on
others.

------
imhoguy
> I am smart. I know I'm smart, I am told that I am smart, I do smart
> things...

and I guess you are risk-averse and try to behave predictable the entire life
to not loose that smartness badge in some crazy venture. Following the safest
path won't let you step on the edge to reach something unknown.

~~~
SMAAART
> and I guess you are risk-averse and try to behave predictable the entire
> life to not loose that smartness badge in some crazy venture. Following the
> safest path won't let you step on the edge to reach something unknown.

You nailed it!

------
lapcatsoftware
The reason you're not rich is probably because you didn't single-mindedly
pursue riches. Which is smart, because riches are not intellectually
interesting. Some money is necessary for living, but the pursuit of wealth
above all else is, frankly, dumb. Don't envy people who are addicted to money;
it's a sickness.

------
kleer001
Intelligence isn't the limiting factor to economic success. One can be smart
and lazy.

Conscientiousness is the limiting factor to economic success.

One doesn't need to be very smart, just lucky enough to get the opportunities,
smart enough to recognize them, and hard enough working to follow through.

------
anm89
I mean are you aggressively focused on pointing your intelligence in the
direction of accumulating wealth?

If you are and it's not working then you probably aren't as smart as you think
you are.

If that's not what you are optimizing for, be that lifestyle, or pursuit of
interests, then there is no reason to expect the two to be correlated.

~~~
biolurker1
That's quite simplistic view on a super complex network

------
austincheney
> Does anyone else feel this way?

No.

Once you have spent time in a third works country you can see crisp divides in
reality and expectations. There are some amazingly smart people in the world
living without running water, food security, or basic sanitation. Intelligence
alone will not transform that poverty into excess wealth.

Once you have worked for a major government or committed yourself to
science/academics you will understand that there is amazing genius
intelligence that is not earning stupendous wealth. Peter Thiel has commented
before about his complete inability to understand that which says more about
Peter than anything else.

Honestly, according to numerous data sources most wealth comes from only two
places: inheritance and narcissism. There are company
founders/athletes/entertainers who are incredibly successful that are not
primarily self-serving whether by favorable market conditions or their own
ingenuity but they are a minority data sample after accounting for
distribution of wealth by headcount quantity.

That said, a better question is: _Why are you still wealthy?_

------
robocat
My tip: partner up with someone who wants money, and that you know has the
skills to make it, and has the ethics to share profits with you. Steve Wozniak
might be an example of someone who did that.

The smart people I know that are not rich because of one of two prime reasons:

1\. They are not wealthy because they are not driven to make money. The
scientist, the stereotypicial engineer, the altruist. The majority of self-
made wealth I have seen is due to a real desire to make money, and work hard
at it with little regard to other concerns like how enjoyable or prestigious
the work is.

2\. They are smart in particular areas, but really let themselves down in
others. Maybe they can’t work well with others, maybe they intellectually
can’t do sales, maybe they don’t keep motivation to work on a winning thing,
maybe they gamble or drink, maybe they have psych issues.

Note that there are plenty of exceptions to the above (gain wealth despite the
above, or lose it even with the above).

Finally plenty of smart people just don’t value money that highly - they are
smart enough to have different goals in life. My guess is you want money for
the social status but that you don’t actually care much about money - if so
maybe accept that and choose your own path.

------
lmiller1990
A lot of people will say “it is just luck” but I think this is just one
factor.

The real question is what moves have you made to get rich? Have you started
making a product? You cannot ride (perceived) intelligent to riches.

------
fullStackOasis
How much money do you want to make?

Sometimes, I do wonder why I'm not rich, even though I'm smart in many ways.
But I really know the answer. I haven't actually _tried_ to get rich, because
I don't value that very much. I try to maximize my time for things that make
me happy. So it's not really a mystery that I'm not "rich" (a relative term).

------
leff_f
I can feel your pain, feeling of not getting what you deserve is a tough
feeling to keep inside.

By identifying ourselves as being smart we are getting into the trap of being
hostages of this label. Lot of scenarios in our life require us to make
mistakes. Mistake is something a smart person cannot afford and deliberately
avoids.

We are awarding ourselves with an achievement award of being smart without
actually doing the work (doesn't it feel great to be smart?). Being smart is a
capacity to think logically, not something we achieved in life. It is given,
but to feel fulfilled we need to do something with it.

By declaring myself smart I set the scale of measurement for myself, and then
I suffer when somebody smarter than me is around. Understanding that even my
intellect is not something that defines me is a crucial piece of this puzzle.
Intellect is one of the MANY tools available to each one of us. Exploring
those tools requires some .... testing and learning, and intellect is a very
lousy helper here.

And if you really want to focus on the money in your life - look at the people
around you. Money come from the relationship with the people around us not
from the ideas, thoughts, reasoning. Knowing you strength and focusing on
helping people - producing much better outcome long term than focusing on a
great idea.

So as you said - time to kick your own ass! ;)

Hope this was useful.

~~~
AndyBK
Ticks all of the right boxes!!

------
nullgeo
I think I am smart but I am lazy, and I have this unquenchable thirst for
knowledge. I rabbit-hole into things and never completely finish a project
that I start. I have so many abandoned GitHub repos that might have panned out
if I had put focus and effort into them. So I think my lack of motivation and
interest could be a factor in me not getting rich.

But I am happy with my 9-5 job that provides enough to take care of the people
I love.

------
rapjr9
Fear of patents and lawsuits has often prevented me from pursuing an idea.
It's difficult to find related work in patents, and anybody can start a
lawsuit. Many patents are vague and way too general and can be used against
you even if you think they're about something totally unrelated to what you're
doing. I've made several attempts to start a business and it's scary exposing
yourself to the public in that way. Marketing is also really difficult, you
are literally competing with millions of other voices trying to get yours
heard. Getting rich also often seems to require a willingness to climb on the
backs of other people, to use them to their disadvantage to advantage yourself
which I found I didn't want to do. Part of being a climber is pulling other
people down, and that seems like a bad way to live. There are exceptions to
all these, but many of them are typically encountered when starting a
business. To get really rich it seems to me that you either have to inherit,
be lucky, or be really mean and dirty.

------
WheelsAtLarge
Getting rich when you have nothing often takes patience and long term
planning.

Look around you all the self-made titans have built their wealth over decades.
They decided where they could best make an impact and they made a plan and
followed through relentlessly. We see the result but we don't see the
sleepless days, the never-ending meetings, the ability to stay focused and on
and on, not just for days or weeks but for years. Also, you need to lead many
people to the same goal. Do you that successfully and you'll be rewarded with
lots of money.

Most people burn out early, even if they are motivated, or can't get others to
follow.

Smarts is only a small part of the solution.

Example: Let's say you come up with the greatest solution to a problem but if
you are the only one that knows it then it has no value to anyone. You have to
let people know through the creation of an organization. And you have to
convince them that it really is a great solution that they need to use.

------
billconan
what I learned is that successful people know how to leverage resources to
achieve their goals.

smart people focus only on polishing their own skills, but that doesn't scale.

~~~
tluyben2
Yep, it is what I still have to fight against; ‘this is going too slow, let me
do it!’. If you cannot do it yourself, you won’t even attempt, which seems
much more relaxed in many ways.

------
meiraleal
I started too poor to be too rich, but from a very poor family and no support
and background I currently belong to the 5% people making more money in my
country, so although I'm not rich as private jet rich, I bootstrapped myself
from poverty to a high quality standard of life.

------
gassiss
I used to feel this way as well. Until I realized that my way of living would
be no different being multi millionaire vs how much I make now, except with
bigger numbers in the screen of my bank account(s).

Making millions takes a lot of hard work. I'd rather work on my hobbies.

------
docflabby
The simple answer is you are not as smart as you think you are. If you were
you would already have worked out the answer to this question.

Most people overestimate their own intelligence. The majority of people think
they are smarter than average.

------
Raed667
Luck, connections and social environment and opportunities. Most of the above
average people that I know and that have it really-well had a lot of bootstrap
family money and safety nets that allowed them to be "courageous".

------
runjake
No, because smart does not equate to rich[1].

I _could_ be rich. I know what is required, but I actively choose not to put
in that work and make those sacrifices.

Why not? Because I'm choosing other things like family and peace of mind. I
reckon if I could keep those, I'd move forward.

Regarding your fear and insecurity: you're going to die sooner rather than
later. You have virtually nothing to lose and a lot to regret.

1\. In reality I make low six figures and am privileged to be "richer" than I
ever thought I'd be.

------
SMAAART
This is what I found by Googling around:

If you’re so smart, why aren’t you rich? Turns out it’s just chance.

The most successful people are not the most talented, just the luckiest, a new
computer model of wealth creation confirms. Taking that into account can
maximize return on many kinds of investment.

[https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/03/01/144958/if-
youre-...](https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/03/01/144958/if-youre-so-
smart-why-arent-you-rich-turns-out-its-just-chance/)

~~~
biolurker1
But none of the self made billionaires is low in IQ. So this is a given and
you need luck too. People dismissing success with luck are wrong.

------
giantg2
Because I'm really not THAT smart, nor are most people (IQ standard
distribution).

I think there have been studies and books done about successful people (can't
remember the authors). The book basically said that luck is the main
influence. There are plenty of smart people who aren't rich and certainly some
average people who are. I want to say the experts consider luck to be less
than 10% of the success formula.

------
hejja
to answer this question we have to ask what smart even means.

if it means you can "figure stuff out at work" congrats, you can follow
instructions in a structured, specialist environment.

to become legitimately "rich", however, in most cases you have to own part of
a business.

and in the world of entrepreneurship, you have to be much more of a
generalist, as there are 10 different factors (sales, product, timing,
pricing) you must all get right.

I can virtually guarantee you the best person at math in the world is not
rich, because they have gone full specialist to get to that point, and
therefore cannot succeed outside of an extremely structured environment.

"Range, Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World" by David Epstein is a
great book on this topic.

------
tirrellp
Depending on your financial situation, you could Buy an old line company and
digitize it.

In the US, If you can get 500k from friends and family, you can buy a $5m
company with a strong balance sheet and strong cash flow. It will give you a
live Petri dish to test your ideas on how to do things better.

~~~
quickthrower2
So no business or leadership experience just buy a company, will all go well?

~~~
askafriend
It's so easy a caveman can do it!

~~~
quickthrower2
Hold on.... only if they buy my eBook is it easy!

------
askafriend
You don't make money by being smart. You make money by taking on risk, being
smart, executing well, and getting lucky among 100 other things.

If you think intelligence alone can get you there, you're about to be in a
world of pain down the road.

------
nunez
Because I'm not feeling risky enough to try for it...yet. I'm not feeling
risky enough because our life is pretty good as it is. Our life is pretty good
as is because we don't have to worry about finances, as my job pays incredibly
well.

------
alexmingoia
First decide what you want and then commit to achieving it.

If you don’t want to work for a boss, then you have to start your own business
or work for yourself.

If you want to make more money then you have to decide how much and change
your job to accommodate that.

------
elliekelly
It’s almost as if there isn’t any correlation at all between wealth and
intelligence...

------
klambda
PG commented recently "if you do creative work, try to avoid situations where
people with less ability than you can tell you what to do, or edit your work".
It expands to getting rich.

------
comeondude
Start loving yourself.

Have you ever fell in love to the point where you’d do anything for that
person and that person can do no wrong in your eyes?

Make that person yourself.

Takes practice!

~~~
QuixoticQuibit
This provided some much needed perspective. Thank you.

------
ineedausername
Cause I'm risk-averse and lazy.

------
m463
The world average median income seems to be about $10,000.

~~~
biolurker1
Doesn't matter if you live in HCOL

------
burntoutfire
Assuming "smart" means 90th percentile of intelligence, there are 700 million
smart people, way more that rich people. It shows that obviously wealth
creation requires much more than intelligence.

------
thedevindevops
There is no gene for fate - Gattaca (1997)

------
5ociety
Well the game is rigged. If you're so smart why are you in prison. You have to
get crazy because yeah they're dumber but they are playing a different game.
You forget you are smarter than idk 70, 80, 90, 95% of people. Once I started
thinking that way things started making more sense and I stopped caring what
people think while I'm on my path. Take some risks. Who cares what they think.
You won't get there playing by their rules. The purpose of their rules is to
turn you into a tool.

------
muzani
I say it's luck. Marc Andreessen wrote a nice blog on this:
[https://pmarchive.com/luck_and_the_entrepreneur.html](https://pmarchive.com/luck_and_the_entrepreneur.html)

People think a lot about the luck they can't control but there are plenty of
ways to harvest luck.

Smart will let you do harder things with less effort. Smart lets you question
yourself and what you're doing wrong.

Motion gives you luck. Meet new people, try new things. Don't just optimize
for most income, but use your smartness to move faster and further than
everyone else. Build 10,000 prototypes. Try new hobbies. Read bigger and
thicker books. Reread the same books you have.

Being prepared gives you more luck. Some of the best discoveries were
organized messes. Edison discovered the light bulb experimenting with
everything - animal hair, 6000 vegetable growths, and finally got it with
tungsten. Smart people tend to give up earlier and be neater.

And the last type of luck just happens to you. A friend just offers you a
great job. Your first freelancing contract. Getting a hot date to ask you out
first. A friend of mine made music as a full time job and worked on 3D game
engines as a hobby, and got a dream job doing music for the game industry.
This all seems like luck, because it's an unplanned result, but it's the
overflow of hard work.

Smart people are a little obsessed with trying to link results directly to an
action. To really succeed, you have to keep putting energy and focus into
something, even when progress plateaus.

