
Crypto currencies and blockchain are broken because they lack utility - all2
https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=18493519<p>I&#x27;ve been struggling to put this in to words for a while now. The above thread on crypto currencies tanking has me bothered and has driven me to try and express myself.<p>Crypto-tokens are useless without utility. Because there is no value (not even fiat acceptance) intrinsic to any coin, they are useless without a utility function.<p>Some blockchain models have tried to solve this (lack of utility) with smart contracts. Smart contracts are also broken, though, for distributed trust systems. Sure, they might work on chain, but when someone needs to author a real-estate deal there is some trusting that happens off-chain. And when trust (the entire point of the blockchain) occurs off-chain there is no guarantee that what you expect to happen has actually happened (did they sell the property, is it in the condition described, etc.).<p>So, the only utility (smart contracts) for distributed trust systems can&#x27;t be trusted when it comes to real applications.<p>The only other way any fiat currency gains utility is mass acceptance (which all crypto currencies lack). If I can&#x27;t buy a cup of coffee with it, why would I accept XYZ coin as payment for anything.<p>So, I argue for utility. If any currency&#x2F;blockchain technology is going to be successful it needs to be useful for <i>something</i>. In short: can I buy stuff I want with it?<p>My question is: how can the ideas of crypto currency and blockchain be leveraged in a way that is actually useful on a mass market scale? (ie, how do we bring utility to an idea that has been fluff - &#x27;mining&#x27;, really?! - so far?)
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samstave
Why cant an 'auditable chain of custody' be the only/primary utility?

I have heard people say that blockchain is the wrong tech for voting, as an
example, well - OK - so, what then, is the 'correct' tech implementation for
vote tracking?

Cant you have blockchain based code control even in an open source system to
ensure no nefarious business goes on - based on how others have exclaimed they
dont trust code for e-voting platforms... why cant this work.

So, ___what_ __is the right tool to tackle such problems, and if we dont have
a right-tool, then why do we not have a working group sanctioned and funded by
the DARPAs of the world to solve things like this?

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hackermailman
In most countries internet access is a total monopoly and so unreliable that
the service blows out during a championship sports game let alone the entire
country using it at once to vote. Meanwhile we have managed to avoid election
disputes leading to riots and burning down parliament for 150 years using a
simple volunteer run hand counting method with independent observers. I
wouldn't be so quick to throw out a century of success for unproven technology
from 2008. Maybe if one day we have guaranteed p2p connections avoiding the
high priced access control by just 1 or 2 telecom monopolies, and weak
standards/protocols that aren't being hacked on a regular basis like LTE.

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samstave
> __ _Meanwhile we have managed to avoid election disputes leading to riots
> and burning down parliament for 150 years using a simple volunteer run hand
> counting method._ __

The words 'Accurate, Accountable, Auditable' do not occur in this sentence.

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hackermailman
Vote selling also doesn't occur in that sentence. There's a reason we don't
tear off a hash from a ballot right now to be given to voters, enabling them
to verify later their hand counted ballot wasn't discarded or used to vote for
somebody else, because it enables vote selling since now you have proof you
voted for a candidate. Foreign superpowers could even automate this with a
smart contract. Upload a signed txn proving you voted how they want you to and
collect your $100 worth of coins. SuperPACs with hundreds of millions of
advertising dollars would cancel ads and buy your vote.

~~~
jhasse
Zero knowledge proofs can solve this.

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leashless
We fixed this: [http://Mattereum.com/LP](http://Mattereum.com/LP) and it'll be
up on an alpha basis in the next couple of months.

Basically we are where SSL was before we got Certificate Authorities to bind
the crypto keys to real world legal entities. Without that commercial
infrastructure to absorb risk and connect the two domains, nothing can move
across domains - which is where the real value can be generated.

I project managed the Ethereum launch, I've been around the crypto world for
20 years, and we've been working in this for quite a while. Read the paper.
Give us a look.

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all2
So I looked. It sounds nice. You have nice partners. But I don't see source or
anything like that.

Suppose I wanted to dabble or contribute, how would I go about that?

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hackermailman
The value is too volatile in most crypto schemes to enable anything like
remittance or other consumer level transactions. You need either a stablecoin
scheme, which introduces a centralized authority (and in that case, you've
reinvented paypal and people will just use paypal) or some reliable method
where your coins can be sold immediately at a guaranteed price otherwise if
you want to send $50 to your cousin in the developing world by the time you've
wasted time going through all the hassle of doing so they're now worth $25.

For your off chain problems Egor Homakov's Failsafe Network (now called
Fairlayer) addresses that problem
[https://github.com/fairlayer/wiki](https://github.com/fairlayer/wiki)

For your request of being able to just pay with your phone anywhere you go,
with an easy to use interface that registers payments immediately, Moxie's
mobilecoin project may be the answer if it's ever realized
[https://www.mobilecoin.com/](https://www.mobilecoin.com/)

Basically you just need to wait for this to mature, and for the majority of
speculators to get run out when it all collapses. It would be nice to have
reliable exchanges as well instead of every few weeks discovering another
scandal of price fixing or stolen coins.

~~~
AboutTheWhisles
People have been already doing remittance for the last five years with
cryptocurrency. It isn't too tricky to understand that someone can set up a
small office in both countries, take in one currency, send cryptocurrency they
already have, buy more with that currency and have the other office sell some
cryptocurrency when they receive it from the first office.

This is something that does not depend on low volatility and can be done on a
small scale while bypassing a large expensive service like western union.

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asasidh
un-censorable money is not utility enough ? how about a fixed cap and
deflationary nature that makes it a better store of value. Can you find any
other asset class that has performed better in the last 5 years ?

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timoth3y
This article is almost a year old, but it explains why using a utility token
will put most companies at a strong competitive disadvantage.

[https://www.forbes.com/sites/tromero/2018/01/09/why-your-
ico...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/tromero/2018/01/09/why-your-ico-
investment-is-going-to-zero/#d52f0053922b)

It's not a feature. It's a bug.

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bsvalley
Thanksgiving is coming, black Friday and Cyber Monday. 2 things are happening:

\- 1. people are cashing out any gains and closing things out this year prior
to filling taxes.

\- 2. people are getting more fiat to spend this week and get some good deals.

You can't tied the monetary value of crypto and its utility all together.
These are 2 separate things. Just wait for the end of the holidays and you'll
see Wall St will jump on crypto since they've been waiting for a big discount
to get on board. As far as utility goes, tones of very talented people are
working heads down on crypto as we speak. They don't get bothered by charts.

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lostctown
Am I reading reddit? There was no reference in OP's post to the current
prices.

~~~
bsvalley
My bad I jumped the gun too soon. Sorry for that poor comment of mine :/

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alboaie
Blockchain could make easier to implement the vision of complementary
curencies from
[https://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0712683992/transac...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0712683992/transactionne-21/)
Bernard Latier is prophetic in "The Future of Money: Creating New Wealth, Work
and a Wiser World". Aloso, Blockchain could enable some sorts of decentealised
UBIs. Unfortunately the first wave was too libertarian in its culture and not
focused on doing really good things for the world. Too much greed, fear and
short sighted decisions. But this wave proved that the monopoly on money is an
acident and not a necesity. This could be very huge. When many people start
believing it just becomes reality..

