

Re-Ask HN: Engineer contractor rates in Spain, Catalonia (Barcelona)? - zerr

Any ideas about contractor hourly rates for experienced software engineers in Barcelona, Catalonia or Spain in general?
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professorTuring
I am from Spain, when charging you should take into consideration various
aspects:

1\. 21% of your fee goes behind taxes.

2\. If you want to work on your own you have to pay each month around 250€

3\. If you are going to live there, you should also consider paying the social
security fees (around 1000€/month more).

More input: A house keeper charges between 10/12€/hour,

A particular teacher charges between 15€/hour.

A computer forensic expert charges around 100-150€/hour.

Mechanics charge between 30-50€/hour.

I would recommend between 75-150€/hour depending on the amount of hours. If
you are going to stay in their office and work with them around 8h/month I
would charge between 5-7k/month. 1k/week should be fine.

~~~
fasteo
I am also from Spain, and this info is misleading:

1\. 21% is VAT. You hourly rate must be always VAT excluded.

2\. I suppose you are referring to the "cuota de autonomos". This is 330
euro/month. New freelancers can get a cut during the first 2 years (100
euro/month if I remember well)

3\. Nope. If you are a freelancer, the "cuota" includes social security (this
includes public health service, so you don´t need a private health insurance;
and yes, public health system in Spain works really well most of the time)

4\. Then, you have the actual tax for your work (IRPF). In every invoice you
need to withhold 9% of the gross amount during the first 2 years, 21%
afterwards. Every 3 months you need to file "modelo 130" (more or less
equivalent to an additional 9% monthly withhold) and once a year the
government will net all these amounts. Depending on your personal situation
(married,kids,mortage,etc), you may get some money back.

Nevertheless, 5-7K/month seems pretty accurate for Barcelona.

Hope this helps

~~~
amorphous
Social security in Madrid is around 260 EUR/month

Rates are _much_ lower compared to London or Germany (where I have worked
before, I'm german). However, income tax (IRPF) also, I pay around 20% (in
Germany I'd pay at least 30-35%)

I wasn't aware of a cut for the first 2 years, that's either only in Catalonia
or a new law (I moved to Madrid 3.5 years ago)

7K/month would be a very good salary in Madrid. I earned around 5K, but now I
work remotely for companies in Germany or England (with better rates)

One thing to know though is that working freelance is rare in Spain, I get
asked in interviews why the hell I want to stay freelance if they are offering
me a permanent position.

~~~
fasteo
330 EUR/month gives you additional coverage in case of illness. But yes, you
can get away with 260 EUR/month.

Yes, new law. For new autonomos only. The cut is not linear. I believe you
have to pay 50 EUR/month first 6 months, then 130 EUR/month for 18 months.

Yes, freelancing is rare in IT, but pretty normal in many professions. There
are around 3 millions autonomos in Spain, out of 16 million workers.

~~~
amorphous
Ah yes true, I remember when registering for social security that there were
two options, but the more expensive one didn't seem worthwhile (at the time at
least)

Yes I meant freelancers are rare in IT, which makes finding projects harder.

But in general it seems to be considered less safe, for example it makes
renting a flat more difficult if you tell you are autonomo (even though I'd
earn maybe half of my current salary if I had a permanent position). It is my
impression that most freelancer only work that way because they can't find a
permanent position (unless they work in a profession that is independent by
nature, like accountants etc)

~~~
fasteo
It is generally not worthwhile, but in some cases it might be interesting. For
example, if you commute a lot to your customer offices, in case of a car
accident your rehab will be covered by the additional quota. Otherwise, you
are on your own (public health service will take care of your injuries, but no
rehab)

Like the paella, this is the typical Spanish mindset. Safe, permanent job. How
I hate this is beyond words ...

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jcr
I saw your previous "Ask" float by the /newest queue, but I'm at a loss for
any way to help you find an answer, save for giving you an up-vote. Worse yet,
my grasp of Spanish is pitiful and I know nothing about Catalan, so I can't
even reliably search for an answer.

Can you think of any native language sites or IRC channels where you could ask
this question?

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collyw
Not sure about contractors, as there doesn't seem to be the market here like
there is in London or other large cities. For permanent positions, you can get
up to 40k euros per year with experience. I haven't seen much more offered
than that.

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Dewie
I think Catalonia is richer (per capita) than the rest of Spain, so hourly
rates in Barcelona might be higher than in other major cities.

~~~
fasteo
Indeed.

Madrid and Barcelona rates are up to 30% higher than in the rest of Spain.
Cost of living is higher as well.

Then we have a second group: Valencia, Bilbao, Sevilla, Malaga with somehow
higher rates.

And then the rest of Spain.

