
Ask HN: I'm at a crossroads, any input is appreciated - djsamson
I’m a twenty year old from upstate New York and I’m thinking about moving to San Francisco/the Bay Area. I’m a business student and I took this spring semester off to launch a startup which wasn’t very successful. I dropped that idea and tried to land an internship in the Bay Area this summer but I haven’t heard back from any of the three I applied to.<p>I’m learning to program but I don’t think I would be a good hacker intern because I don’t think I’m that good yet. I’d be a much better business/marketing guy at a startup.<p>I’m at a crossroads in my life and I could use some advice. I know this is Hacker News, but I think a lot of people in this community are much more intelligent than some of business communities I take part in.<p>I think I’m facing two options:<p>1.) Move to the Bay Area and try to find a business dev/marketing job at a startup. If I can’t I’ll work anywhere to make ends meet while I try to launch a startup of my own. I’ve been told the Bay Area is rich in entrepreneurship; upstate New York is probably the least entrepreneurial place in the country. I want to be around like minded people.<p>2.) My other option is to go back to school in the Fall. If I do this, I’m going to have to work to get through it. My plan would be to take a real estate course this summer and then start working as a commercial real estate agent while I’m at school. My biggest concerns with this are that I really don’t have any interest in real estate, I would be doing it just for the money and between school and real estate I wouldn’t have much time for a startup. And even if I have a successful stint in real estate I would never want to become complacent and make a career out of it, which basically just makes this a means to an end portion of my life.<p>Staying in school and doing real estate is a lot safer, but moving to the Bay Area would be a direct way to accomplish my goals. Do you have any advice?<p>Thank you for your time.
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triviatise
Real estate is not safe. It is just as hard as starting your own company
because it is starting your own company. To be successful you will need to
sleep, eat and breathe it.

If you have no experience and no equivalent to a portfolio of personal
projects, I'm not sure why anyone would hire you to do marketing.

Paul Graham says the key factor he is looking for is determination - you have
had one "failure" and you are letting that completely derail you.

You can be a semi competent programmer that people will pay you money for in
3-6 months if you focus on a single area of expertise. Build a portfolio of
personal projects ( should be reasonably quick to do). Those personal projects
can be the minimum viable product for a potential startup but can also prove
your ability to build things to get contract jobs to pay the bills.

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rhizome
You aren't good at business, you're not getting internships and you're just
learning to program. Stay in school.

~~~
rudasn
..Stay in school and use your free time to find out what you really want and
how to get it.

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dotBen
My advice to you is as follows.

Make the decision now, at this stage in your life/career, whether you want to
be a developer or not - and stick to the plan that follows.

If you do, then you need to work hard to obtain the level of proficiency
needed to cut it in startup world (the "it takes 1000 hours to become a
master' quote comes to mind here). I'm not sure if that is the 'going back to
school' aspect you are considering but there a numerous ways to learn to be a
_good_ developer. It also means that most of your business school teaching -
while still useful - will go unused as a dev. I'm not sure how much debt you
have from school but is it worth wasting that education at this point?

Or decide that you don't want to be a developer and stop trying to be one. If
you move to SF/Silicon Valley you won't hack it trying to be a "part-dev/part-
business-{blah}".

If you are not sure what you want to do then I'd suggest coming out here and
working for a funded startup or BigCo to get some stable salary and also build
up your contact network (business or marketing out here requires a strong
contact network). If you want to start another startup you will need a
technical co-founder and so this also gives you time to meet such folks.

Hope this is useful.

~~~
djsamson
If I decided to just stick to business, could I realistically get a job at a
startup without a finished business degree?

~~~
dotBen
I don't think anyone could give you a firm yes/no on that.

What is your major? Have you done anything that sets you out from the crowd
(ran a successful startup already, etc).

To be honest, the answer might be "stay in school and complete your studies".
I myself don't have a degree but then I have a technical background.

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nhangen
You don't need a business degree to get a job at a startup. You need to be
able to show that you've been able to recruit users or launch something
successfully. The best way to do this is on the streets, whether in your own
company or with someone else.

Screw real estate. I had a friend with the same plan and he didn't even pass
the test. I know a lot of Realtors that quit because the money wasn't good
enough.

Why not move to the bay area, join some hacker groups/meetups, and work to
support yourself while you pick up the skills of either biz dev or
programming.

I'm 32 with a wife and 3 kids, a mortgage, and a shitload of debt. You don't
realize how lucky you are to be 20 and agile.

I have a friend that lives in SF and supports himself with freelance WordPress
development and writing for major blogs. In his spare time he works his true
passion, and it's working. I imagine that you could do the same.

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epc
Understanding that New York City is anathema to anyone north of I–84, still,
you might consider spending some time in NYC before moving cross–country.

Join nextny (<http://nextny.org/>) or the NY Tech Meetup (<http://nytm.org>).

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Zev
Upstate NY is big. What part? What school are you going back to, if you don't
mind me asking? There are a number of very good colleges up there in the form
of RIT, U of R, Syracuse U, a ton of SUNY's[1] and others.

Paychex and Kodak were founded in the Rochester area, for example. So its not
like you're guaranteed to be in a desolate rural void just because you're in
upstate NY.

What would you focus on if you were to go back (note: not what would you major
in, but, what would you spend your time doing?)

1\. As someone from Long Island, Albany, Binghamton and Buffalo are the ones
that always spring to my mind when I think SUNY. But, others are still good --
I did't go to either of those three and got a (what I feel is) a pretty good
education.

~~~
djsamson
Zev,

I attend SUNY Institute of Technology in Utica. It's not that I don't think
there's entrepreneurship going on upstate, I just don't think there's anything
going on with internet startups.

If I go back I'm going to split my time between classes, working and launching
another startup. I don't have any friends who could be a tech co-founder so I
think I'm just going to focus on making money to pay rent and everything left
over is for hiring a freelancer.

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BWallace
Real Estate doesn't look so great from my seat
[http://www.businessinsider.com/gary-shilling-sell-your-
house...](http://www.businessinsider.com/gary-shilling-sell-your-house-2011-5)

Id say, at least find a like-minded network online, such as linkedin groups
etc...(shameless self promotion <http://www.linkedin.com/in/blwallace>)

My friend from Illinois keeps quoting the Beverly Hillbillies theme song
"Calafornie is the place ye wanna be" this week he is pitching to angels and
VCs in LA after a week pitching in SanFran. Plus, coming from a midwesterner,
California is a different planet(in a very good way).

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ziadbc
Why don't you move to SF for the summer. You could do something like a summer
program at Stanford

[http://www.summer.stanford.edu/programs/program/undergraduat...](http://www.summer.stanford.edu/programs/program/undergraduate-
graduate-summer-programs)

Maybe you can even swing transferring to something like deanza community
college for the spring.

Basically, you'd be taking almost no risk vs staying in school where you are
at, plus you can do the startup thing.

I never really understood the point of going into real estate if you're not
interested in it. Its not like money falls from the sky right off the bat in
that industry.

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ohadpr
First of all feel good, having many options and opportunities at a young age
is a considerable achievement.

Secondly, we're looking for summer interns who understand programming but will
focus on connecting with and marketing to other developers. If you're self-
directed then you can do it from anywhere in the world. We may also be opening
a live/work pad in SF soon so that may be an option too.

email me at ohadpr at gmail dot com

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AngeloAnolin
You mentioned that you don't have any interest in real estate, which should
not even be part of your plans (despite the fact that it may rake you in some
dough for the time being).

I think you should go with option 1, as this favors more of what you wanted to
be doing. I believe more chance of success lies in doing what you are
passionate about.

Just my 2 cents.

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abbasmehdi
Life is too short to be spent on safe options. Take the risk, keep minimum
baggage, find technical cofounders and keep trying...

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kirpekar
You are only 20. Either option will work. I would have chosen #1, but I am not
you.

