
Bird has raised $100M for electric scooter sharing - jseliger
https://beta.techcrunch.com/2018/03/09/bird-is-raising-100-million-to-become-the-uber-of-electric-scooters/
======
sharpercoder
How is such a business even remotely profitable? Such scooter will cost a few
hundred bucks. They're easy to store and drag into the house. Even in a small
room in a densely populated city, there is not much nuisance in owning one.
Furthermore, these things get cheaper by the year; further calving off any
rental market.

Genuinely interested in how such business is able to make a dime.

~~~
ttul
“Our fund has too much cash. What can we invest it in? These software startups
don’t need much capital....”

“I know. Scooters. They cost money, right? And it’ll need a ton of marketing!”

~~~
trevyn
These scooters really market themselves, which anyone in a served region can
attest to. They’re _everywhere_.

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nosuchthing
There's been a crack down on enforcing tickets to people riding these scooters
without helmets - which are not supplied with the scooters that sit on
sidewalks.

[http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-
scooters-20180307-s...](http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-
scooters-20180307-story.html)

[http://smdp.com/bird-lovers-tweet-as-tickets-ruffle-
feathers...](http://smdp.com/bird-lovers-tweet-as-tickets-ruffle-
feathers/164289)

[https://dailybruin.com/2018/02/20/ucpd-begins-to-enforce-
tra...](https://dailybruin.com/2018/02/20/ucpd-begins-to-enforce-traffic-
rules-on-bird-scooter-riders/)

[https://patch.com/california/santamonica/santa-monica-
cracks...](https://patch.com/california/santamonica/santa-monica-cracks-down-
bird-scooter-riders)

    
    
      "Bird Rides Inc. has a business license to operate a 
      brick-and-mortar administrative office," Santa Monica 
      public information officer Constance Farrell told Los 
      Angeles Times, "but they do not have the appropriate 
      license to operate scooters in an ad hoc manner on the   
      public right of way."
    
      In an attempt to increase safety, Bird has begun giving 
      out free helmets to its users – so far, they've delivered 
      2,500 free helmets which can be ordered from the "safety" 
      tab in the app, according to Los Angeles Times.

~~~
dharmab
Helmets should be fitted for each individual's head size and shape. Generic
helmets supplied at the sidewalk won't fit everyone.

~~~
jdavis703
Bicyclists aren't required to wear helmets in CA. As long as these scooters
don't go more than 25 MPH I don't see why they shouldn't be treated any
differently from a legal perspective.

~~~
BillTheBiker
From a legal perspective, how would going more than 25 MPH be relevant?

~~~
jdavis703
Higher speeds are more dangerous, and thus require more safety equipment.

------
cspags
A lot of skepticism here regarding profitability, safety, and regulation. I
can’t remember the last product I’ve seen gain traction so insanely fast as
these scooters have in LA/SD. Between that and the bike companies (LimeBike,
ofo, etc) it feels like when Uber/Lyft first came out, ie this is how urban
transportation should be.

------
dvt
They're all over West LA (Santa Monica, UCLA, Westwood, etc.). It's crazy to
me that they are raising this much money for one simple reason: to ride the
scooter, you are required _by law_ to wear a helmet. I have friends that have
gotten fined because they're riding a Bird without a helmet. And no one in
their right mind will carry a helmet around on the off-chance they might ride
a scooter.

But it's a neat idea. And if they change the law, it'll be super profitable
(especially around campuses).

~~~
wallacrw
Anecdotally, my sense as a Santa Monica local is that the helmet requirement
is no longer being enforced in Santa Monica. I've ridden by cops several times
in the last few days, no issues.

So I think it has somehow been negotiated with the authorities.

~~~
jaaron
Yeah, my sense was that Santa Monica simply wanted to get the company's
attention so they could cooperate. Now that their talking, it seems like
they've backed off a bit.

Still want the cops to warn or ticket the folks who ride on the sidewalk
though.

------
gamesbrainiac
The rides that they are using are the Xiaomi Mi Jia M365 scooter. You can get
them for quite cheap at around $350 to $400. They usually last for more than
two years, so they're really not that expensive. Maintenance is also quite
cheap.

I own one myself. They have a max speed of 25Kmph, but usually you maximize
distance, so you use the eco-mode which keeps you at 18Kmph.

------
aresant
I don't understand the mindset of not wearing a helmet riding an electric
vehicle at 15mph on a city street.

The chances of head & face trauma are substantially reduced, and the chance of
a fatal injury reduced by almost 70% w/a helmet on.

I think that Bird's "we'll send you a free helmet" is a cute way to get around
criticism & liability.

But given the clear market demand for bird and bike-sharing, I would love to
see an entrepreneur really nail the "portable bike helmet" category or figure
out a non-gross way to share helmets with strangers.

There are a few options on the market today that show people are thinking this
problem through, but what else could be built besides a foldable / more
portable solution?

[https://www.ecohelmet.com](https://www.ecohelmet.com)

[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fendhelmet/fend-the-
col...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fendhelmet/fend-the-collapsible-
bicycle-helmet)

[https://www.morpherhelmet.com](https://www.morpherhelmet.com)

(1)
[https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/sep/22/bicycle...](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/sep/22/bicycle-
helmets-reduce-risk-of-serious-head-injury-by-nearly-70-study-finds)

~~~
ghaff
There's also D3O material. [1] I wear a hat using this when I downhill ski.
(Not really interested in a skiing helmet debate. I skied for years long
before anyone besides racers wore helmets and I downhill ski very little these
days and not very aggressively.)

I don't have a real opinion on when people "ought" to wear helmets. It's a
tradeoff. People do have falls walking and accidents in cars where serious
injury would have been prevented by wearing a helmet. And many of these
sharing services are not practical if one is required to wear a "real" helmet.

[1] [https://www.d3o.com/](https://www.d3o.com/)

------
ndaiger
The law requiring wearing a helmet makes no sense to me. I think Bird is
great.

The helmet law seems to have something much closer to a Vespa in mind. And
while a Bird can move along at a good pace, it's slower than a bicycle at
speed. I believe they lowered the max speed after launching.

You aren't required to wear a helmet on a bicycle if you're over 18, and I
think bikes are much harder to control in low-speed contexts.

The law should change.

However people should definitely not ride Birds on sidewalks (although a
majority of people do).

~~~
mung
Interesting position to take on those two things, since wearing a helmet makes
an awful lot of sense since flying off a scooter onto a pavement at 20km will
cause massive head injuries...

...and a scooter hitting a pedestrian is not as traumatic as a car hitting a
scooter. ..given the relative speed differences of people/scooters/cars and
humans ability to process objects at speed remaining the same.

~~~
askvictor
A walking adult, if they trip, fall and hit their head will suffer massive
head injuries. A ~2m fall for a human head is enough to kill you. Ergo, all
pedestrians should wear helmets.

Furthermore, head injuries to car occupants would be reduced if they wore
helmets (why else do race car drivers wear them?)

~~~
mung
People generally know how to fall and not hit their head, and when they do
their body softens the impact. Not such much with scooters and bikes, where
you can literally go head first.

There are risk factors, then there is absurd. Racing drivers drive a lot
faster than road vehicles, they also have minimal creature comfort protection
like airbags because the car has to be light. They have roll cages however
that you can thump your head on.

I suppose we could all walk around with goggles because y'know, someone might
poke their eye put.

------
tyingq
I'm a little baffled here. They don't appear to be street legal. These look
like electric "Razer" type scooters.

 _" riders of motorized scooters must be at least 16 years old, licensed
drivers, wearing a helmet and not riding the scooters on sidewalks"_

$100M ?

~~~
tristanj
I don't find $100m that surprising, and honestly don't think it's enough. They
need the cash to expand to new cities. Motorized scooters are not cheap at all
and cost $200-$300 each.

~~~
tyingq
I'm baffled because of the inherent risk. Helmets are required, but not
supplied. And they seem equally not street legal nor sidewalk legal. Seems one
city council vote away from being squashed.

~~~
dbajakkchs
Why do you say they aren’t street legal?

~~~
tyingq
_”On the roadway, it must be operated in the bicycle lane, if there is one. On
roads without bicycle lanes, motorized scooters may operate where the speed
limit is 25 mph or less“_

Seems pretty limiting to me. Street legal in a VERY constrained set of
circumstances. Only roads with bicycle lanes or a speed limit of 25mph or
less. And probably varies wildly based on jurisdiction.

[https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&urile=wcm:path:/dmv_...](https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&urile=wcm:path:/dmv_content_en/dmv/vr/scooters)

Edit: Downvoting? That’s cool, but please explain where I’m off base. Do you
not think that “has bike lanes or a speed limit of 25mph” is pretty limited?

~~~
dbajakkchs
I didn’t downvote, however I would say that 25 mph speed limit is definitely
compatible with street legal. Cyclist commuters hardly reach that speed. It’s
faster than traffic in a congested city. And based on the look of those
scooters, I have a hard time believing they’d even be stable above 25 mph.

It sounds to me the regulations may be more intended to restrict the speed of
things that look like bicycles or mopeds, and probably won’t affect these
scooters at all. Look at how small those wheels are.

~~~
tyingq
It's that the roadway itself has a posted speed limit of 25mph or less, or has
bicycle lanes. That's not common.

So, for example, a roadway with a posted 30mph limit, and no bike lanes...the
scooters are not legal in that case.

~~~
dbajakkchs
I see, that does sound like they would be pretty much useless in the burbs,
more useful in some downtown cores, but you’d have to keep track of the speed
limit on the particular road you’re on.

The rules on ebikes in California are very different - there is a 20 mph speed
limit for throttle control, and 28 mph speed limit for pedal assist. But the
limit applies to the bike, not the road. I got confused by the differences
between the two laws.

------
yalogin
This is probably better than bikes. I don’t sweat using them and they occupy
much less space than a bike too. However they need to be charged after every
use. How is that achieved?

~~~
brendoncrawford
AFAIK, people are paid to charge them in their homes.

~~~
yalogin
A charge cannot last all day right? It must be charged periodically. I would
be suprised if it does not require a charge after every use.

~~~
traek
Be surprised, because they do not require a charge after every use.

------
jaaron
Happy to see them succeed with two caveats: I really wish people using the
scooters would (1) not ride on the sidewalks and (2) be more considerate of
where they leave the scooters. I've had them left in front of my apartment
driveway, blocking the way. I've seen them left in the middle of the sidewalk
and on random lawns. I really wish they had partnered with the city to create
places where people should leave them.

------
mullen
Bird will give you a free helmet. Go into the Bird app, look under Safety and
in there are instructions on how to get a free helmet.

------
miguelmota
I used to pick up a Bird scooter to and from work (2 mile trip) everyday for a
couple weeks until they started requiring helmets which now make it completely
inconvenient and cops are eager to give you tickets.

------
mistahdarcy
I've had one of these scooters for 2 years now. Not "Bird" of course, but the
Xiaomi M365 scooter that they've taken and rebranded with their own app.

You can buy your own on amazon by just searching for "Xiaomi scooter". They're
currently $500.

------
hbcondo714
Bird has been leaving their scooters on the sidewalks where I'm at in Marina
Del Ray, CA which is a little surprising since there are a lot of homeless
folks living on these same streets.

~~~
traek
What would homeless people do with the scooters? They can’t ride them without
paying, because the scooters need to be unlocked in the app, and there doesn’t
seem to be an incentive for them to vandalize the scooters.

~~~
jdavis703
People will chop them up. I've seen homeless people with multiple Ford Go
Bikes hooked up to their shopping cart. I kind of doubted they were doing Ford
a service by relocating these bikes to higher demand locations...

------
timbo1642
I just don't understand how people don't steal these and hack them. If it was
my company that would be my biggest concern. And I know it has GPS, but they
can be turned off.

~~~
adtac
You don't even need to turn it off. Just wrap the GPS device in aluminium foil
and you're done.

------
jakecrouch
Perhaps this is the solution to the problem segways had, social acceptability.
If it becomes mainstream among college students, it could easily spread to
everyone else.

~~~
ghaff
Social acceptability is part of it. But the bigger issue was likely part of
what you see people arguing about here. Segways didn't belong on sidewalks and
they didn't really work very well on roads. (And you can debate how great a
fit they are/were even for bike lanes.)

------
danielzahler
My 2 cents on Bird as a newcomer to Santa Monica and why I think electric
vehicles like Bird can reshape urban transit in the US:
[https://medium.com/@danielzahler/bird-is-the-word-e-
scooters...](https://medium.com/@danielzahler/bird-is-the-word-e-scooters-
take-over-la-442e0e1d73d1)

------
hahamrfunnyguy
That's a lot of coin. What makes a company like this worth investing that
amount of money in? What are they doing different than all the other bike
share companies out there?

Don't tell me it's just electric scooters!

~~~
aaachilless
The usability difference between scooters and bikes is meaningful. They fit
into a totally seamless user experience that would be very difficult to manage
with bikes. They’re more tamper-proof, smaller, easier to hop on and off of,
easier to manage in crowds, etc. Anectdotally, Bird scooters have melded into
the environment in Santa Monica, Westwood, and the UCLA campus in a way that I
can’t imagine happening with bikes. Bird scooters are all over the place these
days without being nearly as cumbersome as I imagine bikes would be. As a few
others have noted in this thread, Bird is exploding in LA right now, and I
believe it’s because of their approach to a seamless user experience. The 10%
difference in usability between bike sharing and electric scooter sharing
seems to make all the difference.

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syndacks
I'm concerned these motorized vehicles masquerading as bicycles are going to
ruin existing cycling/walking infrastructure even more than they already have.
In NYC where I live, the ubiquitous delivery man on a motorcycle, err,
electric bike is felt on every street, in every other moment. They are hard to
spot, and I've narrowly missed being run over on many occasions. They congest
bike lanes, make crossing bridges even more treacherous. I'd be curious to see
incident reports on these things city wide. As far as I'm concerned they
should be treated as every other motorized vehicle, requiring a license and to
be driven on streets.

~~~
subpixel
Your concern is 100% valid but I think what we're headed for in urban areas is
something like a free-for-all until the adoption of non-vehicular
transportation gets so high that streets are bifurcated: cars over here,
everything else, over here. It's going to be messy, but if Uber has proved
anything it's that laws will change to accommodate revolutionary utility.

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djrogers
I don’t understand how they keep these things from getting stolen and stripped
down for parts or resale...

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greatamerican
Please Undo the throttling! I live in Santa Monica and I want to go 22 MPH!

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draw_down
I saw lots of these in San Diego when I visited earlier this year. Seems like
a decent idea.

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riantogo
Uber could become the Uber of electric scooters by adding the option. Risky
territory.

