
Depression Classic - lermontov
http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/books/223625/depression-classic
======
labrador
> _Now you can no longer figure out what it is that moves other people to
> bustle about out there in the world, doing errands, rushing to appointments,
> picking up a child from school. You have lost the thread that pulled the
> circumstances of your life together. Nothing adds up and all you can think
> about is the raw nerve of pain that your mind has become—and, once again,
> how merciful it would be to yourself and others to extinguish this pain._

We need another word for what is described above. Most people understand
ordinary depression, because most people feel down sometimes and they have
techniques for getting out of it. They try to get the "clinically depressed"
person to try these techniques.

When I was in my cycle of doom I would set as my goal of the day to get up and
take a shower and often couldn't accomplish it. Forget doing the dishes. I
knew I needed help, but without medical insurance I couldn't afford it and
didn't have the energy or will to try to get medical insurance.

Finally, my family intervened and I was locked up as a danger to myself after
I verbalized a few dangerous thoughts. I'm on insurance now and taking
medication and things are much better. I'm not necessarily happy, but at least
the "black dog" is gone.

~~~
1_2__3
The way I've often described this to people is that at some point I got off
the merry-go-round and I haven't a clue how to get back on. This was (and
remains) a turning point in my own depression, which is why it's interesting.
Prior to that I felt like I was holding on to _something_ for dear life, then
at some point 5-10 years ago it became a feeling much more akin to the above.
"Nothing adds up" is a great way of describing it. I also sometimes say I feel
like I'm living a in mirror universe where nothing makes any sense.

And I'm speaking as someone who deals with this every day, not as someone
who's recovered and is looking back. Recovery isn't possible anymore,
unfortunately. I guess my advice to anyone is if you're not as far along as I
am... Don't get off the merry-go-round. You really can't get back on.

~~~
aaronblohowiak
>Recovery isn't possible anymore, unfortunately.

It is important to separate what we know from what we suspect.

~~~
1_2__3
It is important to realize that other people in this world may have lived
longer, gained more experience, and understand more than you do.

It's also important to realize that a huge part of depression therapy is
trying to convince people they can be "cured" or can recover, when evidence
points to that being highly unlikely - all the actual studies suggest that it
causes permanent, irrevocable changes. And the author of the very book we're
discussing specifically expresses skepticism about the efficacy of therapy.

It doesn't always get better. In fact, most times it doesn't.

~~~
aaronblohowiak
I have 0 experience of your life. What I do know is that if there's a small
chance that I'd never have to suffer another major depressive episode again,
I'd consider that good information to have. Even when the odds aren't in my
favor, I consciously make the choice to focus on the possibility. This isn't
Pollyanna, it's practicality -- thoughts impact mood. Part of CBT is learning
about your thinking, and one of the things that helped me get into a pattern
of recognizing my own thoughts was to separate observations, suspicions and
conclusions.

~~~
1_2__3
I appreciate your trying to help, and I don't mean that in any kind of a
condescending or patronizing way. I shouldn't have been so quick to disregard
what you're saying. And it's certainly true that variations of "binary
thinking" are a hallmark of depression - although I guess what you're
describing isn't quite binary thinking even if I think it comes from the same
place, an absolute certainty of negative aspects of something and bottomless
doubt of anything positive, or anything else at all about it. I'm glad you
found CBT helpful to you and I wish you luck and happiness in your future.

------
btown
> Writing about a lack is difficult, and perhaps no one has ever captured
> exactly what it feels like to be depressed, simply because one can’t
> describe a negative.

For those who haven't seen it, Allie Brosh's comics on the subject come as
close as any other work I've found to "describing the negative" here:

[http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2011/10/adventures-
in-...](http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2011/10/adventures-in-
depression.html)

[http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-
par...](http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-part-
two.html)

Often the best way to grapple with the intangible is to do so through humor.

~~~
mrec
Allie Brosh is wonderful. Her toys analogy in part 2, and "Depression feels
almost exactly like that, except about everything" is just so perfectly spot-
on.

------
aaron-lebo
Depression is a funny thing to write about. If someone is depressed reading
about someone else's depression is preaching to the choir, but if they aren't
or have never experienced it, it's hard to understand what's going on. But for
both groups it's kind of crushing because it reminds you that some people just
might not ever be happy and it's not really their fault and that's hard in a
culture which says "be happy" or "just do X and you'll be happy".

I saw the article mentions _Noonday Demon_. I've never read it but a book that
cites it and I personally found a depression classic is _Lincoln 's
Melancholy_. It is remarkable both how miserable he was and how far he drove
himself because of or in spite of it. I don't think you can know Lincoln, the
Civil War, or his impact on the US without understanding his depression.

Unfortunately it also makes a lot of modern politicians look very superficial
and fake in comparison.

[https://www.amazon.com/Lincolns-Melancholy-Depression-
Challe...](https://www.amazon.com/Lincolns-Melancholy-Depression-Challenged-
President/dp/0618773444)

~~~
labrador
In my opinion it doesn't have a lot to do with happiness or unhappiness.
Unhappiness is an emotion that at least fills the void. I'm unhappy now and
I'm happy about that because I have a plan to get happy. Clinical depression
is about the void, the nothingness, can't find a reason to live and don't want
to live because this emptiness and emotionless existence is dreadful.

~~~
aswanson
Do you think it has to do with being detached socially from other people, even
family members?

~~~
cflewis
My experience with depression is that it does what it can to feed itself.
Whatever triggers it (for me I am certain it is brain chemistry) doesn't
really matter.

Depressed people detach socially from their support network because that feeds
the depression, and any plausible explanation feels as true as any law of
physics. All you have to do is pick one: "These people don't care about
me/They can never understand/They are better off without me as I will just
hurt them."

One way I describe depression is that it's a detachment from reality. Whatever
reality you are actually in, depression bends and warps it to such a degree
that mentally healthy people could not understand even when described to them.

~~~
spangry
I can vouch for this. I had a small group of close friends, who all seemed to
tolerate the fact that it doesn't naturally occur to me to pick up the phone,
invite them over etc. But after 2 years of serious depression, they've all
drifted away from me. I don't blame them: I imagine it just becomes untenable
to keep trying with someone who doesn't answer their phone, or never replies
to your messages...

------
will_pseudonym
A great description of the feeling of depression can be found in the Netflix
stand-up special of Neal Brennan, 3 Mics. (He's also the co-creator of
Chappelle's Show, and quite funny.) It's really difficult to convey the
feeling of depression to people who don't have first or second hand experience
with it, and I think Neal did a great job with that task.

~~~
spangry
The author of 'Hyperbole and a Half' also gives a fantastic explanation (the
whole blog post is well worth a read,
[http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com.au/2013/05/depression-...](http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com.au/2013/05/depression-
part-two.html)):

 _" I remember being endlessly entertained by the adventures of my toys. Some
days they died repeated, violent deaths, other days they traveled to space or
discussed my swim lessons and how I absolutely should be allowed in the deep
end of the pool, especially since I was such a talented doggy-paddler. I
didn't understand why it was fun for me, it just was. But as I grew older, it
became harder and harder to access that expansive imaginary space that made my
toys fun. I remember looking at them and feeling sort of frustrated and
confused that things weren't the same... I could no longer connect to my toys
in a way that allowed me to participate in the experience._

 _Depression feels almost exactly like that, except about everything. "_

~~~
will_pseudonym
I totally agree. I bought her eBook and binged it in one day. Reading about
her initial escape from depression was great, laughing at the absurdity of a
kernel of corn under her fridge. I should revisit that book soon.

------
etangent
> “Men,” she writes, “have cannily figured out how to sidestep the implication
> of moral failing that attaches to mental illness—as well as the specific
> criticism of self-indulgence that is attributed to more introspective
> accounts of this condition—by insisting on a force outside themselves, or on
> a purely genetic susceptibility.”

I stopped reading here.

~~~
rconti
I didn't, but perhaps I should have. From there it delved into how truly
horrible and abusive her childhood was. Which, to me, is much more relatable
to outsiders than having depression with no obvious cause. Like apparently men
are genetically impervious to.

------
ravenstine
It sounds like the book in reference is talking more about clinical depression
than, well, depression as a phenomenon.

I'm not going to pretend like I don't still have issues to work out, but I've
been heavily depressed many times in my life, and I eventually thought of an
interesting question that changed my outlook:

Watch some of those old home videos of you from when you were around 7 years
old. The age isn't that important, but I think that's a golden number in this
case. Look at that boy or girl who is playing in the fountain, popping
bubbles, imagining dogfights with toy airplanes, and shouts "YEAH!" when asked
if they want to ride the sled down the hill again. Is that child fundamentally
who you are? Why not?

Granted, this won't apply to everyone. I've known people personally whose
early childhoods were lousy. But there are lots of people out there who, like
me, are fundamentally happy, curious, and enthusiastic, but were lied to by
society. Society told us big lies, such as that we can't be truly happy unless
we have things to demonstrate our status. We're told that, by a certain age,
we should have a significant other, cars, gadgets, a "career", and more. If we
get the sequence wrong, or it doesn't happen on time, we disappoint ourselves.
Even when we get those things, they're rarely as satisfying to have as we
thought they'd be. This is largely because we sacrificed our inner child in
order to seek the approval of everyone else, only to discover that most people
around you don't actually care if you have any of those things. It doesn't
matter how many things you have to show off your status -- if you're being a
miserable person, you're not going to get the approval or acceptance that
you're seeking.

The idea of "loving yourself" first seems cliche and silly, and I thought it
was, but there's a lot of truth in it. Taking a look back to childhood, before
you were tainted by negative experiences, might give you the best insight into
who you are. I began to feel much happier the more I got in touch with that 7
year old boy who only needed the unconditional love from his parents and an
unabashed imagination. Getting in touch with your child doesn't mean behaving
like a child, but it does mean learning how you could once experience
happiness without the need to show status, own the latest fancy toys, have a
"respectable" job, have an attractive partner, a backyard, retirement plan,
yada yada yada.

The irony of learning who you are through your child, and rejecting the lies
of society, is that you can re-learn to be self-amused and radiate those
positive emotions, which will get you far more approval and status than you
could get with anything else.

It might not be true for everyone, sure. But if that "missing piece" to your
life has been inside you the whole time, and you aren't seeking it out, that's
tragic.

P.S. I know that clinical depression is not the same. I have first-hand
experience with this, and I certainly wouldn't tell someone with serious
issues in their life or inexplicable depression to just "be happy".

