
Chaos Computer Club congratulates Netzpolitik.org - muhpirat
https://www.ccc.de/de/updates/2015/ccc-verratsdatenspeicherung
======
dang
Posts to HN have to be in English. We have enormous respect for other
languages, but HN is an English-language site.

Also, the story was discussed yesterday at
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9976043](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9976043).

~~~
lawl
I get that. But I'm wondering, I've seen translate.google.com links reach the
front page every once in a while. Which is fine if it so happens that it spits
out a somewhat sane translation. This doesn't seem to be the case here, so a
community member provided a translation.

What I'm wondering is, this was voted to the top very quickly when it was
submitted. Were these all german speaking upvoters, or was there some interest
from people who did not understand the content without translation?

It just seems kind of weird to me that this would be allowed if it was
submitted as a google translate link. You could make the case that the google
translation sucks and OP should have translated it himself to a pastebin and
then submitted or something. But I've actually started translating it myself
and it's quite hard, jacquesm definitly did a better job than I could have
done.

I really don't want HN to become spammed with german (or other non-english
content for that matter), but I think there should be exceptions where there's
obvious interest for the community.

I also can't fully follow the argument that this story was already discussed
yesterday, because this is a statement from the CCC that includes stuff your
linked story doesn't. For example how to get free 32c3 tickets.

~~~
dang
If you're arguing that translate.google.com posts should be treated the same
way, I agree, and they mostly are. We don't see all of them, of course.

It's impossible to say whether the upvoters of this story were mostly German
speakers, but that's plausible. HN is fortunate to have many German-speaking
users.

There are exceptions to every rule, but I wouldn't say this post was
exceptional. Fine as it is in its genre, it adds no major information about
the story. And HN generally eschews political tracts, not because we disagree
with them politically, but because they're not what the site is for.

Not all articles on the same story are strict replicas of one another, but
once HN has a major thread on a story, we treat subsequent posts as dupes
unless and until one adds significant new information. We figured this out
after the original Snowden/NSA deluge, when the frontpage was inundated with
both kinds of story: ones that contained major new info, and ones that were
simply piling on. There were an order of magnitude more of the latter.

Teasing the one class apart from the other does require judgment calls, but
not wild ones, and in my view HN has benefited greatly from the distinction.
It optimizes for the diversity of the frontpage while still allowing for
ongoing stories. An example is the recent events at Reddit. I think HN got
that roughly right: a fresh thread for each major new development, while
treating the more ephemeral stories as dupes.

~~~
lawl
Appreciate that you took the time to write an indepth explanation. Thanks!
(Does not necessarily mean I agree with everything though)

------
endymi0n
Context for non-Germans: The small political blog netzpolitik.org is currently
being sued for national treason (for releasing some inside insights on the
Internal handling of the NSA whistleblowing scandal), something unseen in
Germany since the 80s. In contrast, all accusations on treason for the
unconstitutional passing of information to the NSA have been dropped so far
for "lack of evidence".

The CCC is sarcastically congratulating them for receiving this "award" now as
a badge of honor.

On an unrelated funny sidenote, netzpolitik.org has received the (real)
national award "Land of Ideas" the same day they received their formal note of
opening investigations.

~~~
ralfruns
They are not being sued. They are listed as suspects, and the DA is
determining if there is a case or not.

~~~
kpcyrd
For updates:
[http://istdasverfahrengegennetzpolitikschoneingestel.lt/](http://istdasverfahrengegennetzpolitikschoneingestel.lt/)
(is the case against netzpolitik already dropped)

    
    
        Nein -> No
        Ja -> Yes

------
jacquesm
Quickie translation, corrections by German natives appreciated:

After examining a complaint by the secret service the Attorney General is
investigating the editors of netzpolitik.org.

The Chaos Computer Club (CCC) congratulates the editors for receiving this
rare journalistic honor and promises support in both action and funds. We ask
them to give Attorney General Harald Range more occasions for intimidation
campaigns against journalists.

Only extensive mandatory data retention will allow the attorney general to
keep track of:

\- Which journalists report on anti-constitutional practices of secret
services?

\- Who has expressed themselves against surveillance fetishists?

\- Who prevents the under-cover operatives/informers of the secret service
from constructing and supporting extreme right-wing structures?

\- Who removed the water taps from major construction sites?

"We have finally figured out how to dislodge mr. Range from his lethargy" says
Dirk Engling, CCC spokesman. "For a long time we thought that the leaking of
data about citizens and institutions did not bother the attorney general, but
we realize now that we were mistaken. Let us make sure that he has plenty of
work!"

Mr. Range has the chance to enter history. During the Spiegel affair in 1962
the sum total of arrest days for journalists was about 190. A nice chance to
take the lowly two digit placement of the German Republic in the ranks of
press-freedom to a solid three digit place.

The Chaos Computer wants to reward people, who have caused investigations by
the attorney general against journalists and their sources in 2015 each with a
free ticket for the next congress (32C3).

Participants are encouraged to contact journalists, the CC or a whistleblowing
platform of your choice. We are looking forward to receive contributions in
the following domains:

\- Secret services and mass surveillance as well as their commercial partners

\- Covert investigations and liaison officers,

\- Reconstructions of shredded documents

\- Aiding and abetting of right-wing terrorists

\- Surveillance operations involving unpopular opposition parties.

A special prize will be awarded for any revelations that cause the attorney
general to reactivate the since spring 2014 weakened prosecutions against
foreign and domestic secret services as well as the German government.

~~~
PinguTS
V-men = under cover men

To explain the joke with the "removed water taps". It happened that the water
taps in the new building in Berlin for the secret service had been removed,
which resulted in a large damage because of the flowing water. The curiosity
is, that anything relating to this construction site is classified. and all
the people having access to it are monitored. But they still have no glue who
removed the water taps.

~~~
jacquesm
That's hilarious, and if I were them I'd be more concerned with things placed
there without authority than things removed without authority.

It essentially says 'you've been owned'.

~~~
pjc50
Sounds like .. there's a leak.

~~~
Bartweiss
I'm curious whether that pun carries over into German. It would be a stroke of
genius if the taps were removed with that joke in mind.

~~~
yAnonymous
We would say "undichte Stelle". Yeah, it pretty much works.

------
dvdkhlng
For context, see also these HN submissions:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9980741](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9980741)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9981239](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9981239)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9976043](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9976043)

[edit]: added more links to other overlapping HN articles.

~~~
justaman
[https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=h...](https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccc.de%2Fde%2Fupdates%2F2015%2Fccc-
verratsdatenspeicherung)

[English]

------
rbehrends
Relevant legal analysis (in German, by a lawyer): [http://www.internet-
law.de/2015/07/ist-das-landesverrat.html](http://www.internet-
law.de/2015/07/ist-das-landesverrat.html)

The key point is that state secrets can only be those pieces of information
that must be kept secret in order to prevent a grave danger to the _external
security_ of the Federal Republic of Germany. Netzpolitik.org published
information about the internal structure and plans of Germany's _domestic_
intelligence service, which is highly unlikely to affect Germany's _external_
security.

------
k__
The general prosecutor stopped investigations [0], because the "freedom of
press is a high good"

[0] [GER] [http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/generalbundesanwalt-
stopp...](http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/generalbundesanwalt-stoppt-
ermittlungen-gegen-netzpolitik-13728725.html)

~~~
dvdkhlng
Attempting to translate the statement: "The attorney general Harald Range
intends to rest his investigation for the time being. Considering the
importance of the freedom of press he is refraining from executive measures
allowed by the code of criminal procedure."

I wouldn't call that a "stop of investigations". It's more like an attempt at
backpedalling without completely loosing his face :)

~~~
jacquesm
Or wait until there is something more newsworthy occupying the rest of the
journalists and then re-open the investigation.

------
sschueller
This may become the tipping point for Germany to do something about the whole
spying situation and its relationship with the United States.

Similar to what happened in 1962 after Spiegel Journalists where imprisoned
[1]

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiegel_scandal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiegel_scandal)

~~~
realityking
I wouldn't hold my breath. If I see protests in the street and there are more
participants than just nerds, than I'll believe change is possible.

~~~
happyscrappy
Or how about maybe close US military bases on German soil.

~~~
DasIch
Nobody in Germany wants those to be closed. They are often very important to
the local economy of the areas in which they are located. It's also convenient
way to make sure it's in the interest of the US military to defend Germany,
which means that at least one military that can be taken seriously is
interested in that.

~~~
dmichulke
I know quite a lof of Germans that want them to be closed.

Local politicians are usually not among them for the reasons you stated but
instances of US military are not exactly admired these days and tolerated at
best.

There is also a group of people that considers Germany not sovereign and still
US-occupied territory. Googling for "Deutschland Souveräner Staat" brings up
some 75k hits and the top 10 are all related to this very question. I doubt
these people are in favor of "US occupation"

~~~
DasIch
Well, sure there are quite a few people that are very critical of the US and
some go as far as wanting to see theses bases go, but they are a minority.

There is also no political party (worth mentioning) that has any interest in
getting rid of them and there isn't any discussion of the topic in the media
either.

I don't see at all how it matters that there are conspiracy theorists who
believe Germany not to be a sovereign state.

------
lispm
Notice also the 'Preis für Verratsdatenspeicherung'.

Win a free ticket for the next 32C3, the legendary Chaos Communication
Congress, in Hamburg/Germany. ;-) Meet 10k other hackers in December 2015 for
four days in a parallel universe.

Notice also the slight difference between 'Verratsdatenspeicherung' vs.
'Vorratsdatenspeicherung'.

------
z02d
Someone ran an automatic pentesting tool and dumped the sql database of
generalbundesanwalt.de .

[http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=htt...](http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golem.de%2Fnews%2Fsql-
dump-aufgetaucht-generalbundesanwalt-de-gehackt-1507-115526.html&sandbox=1)

