
Ask HN: Do coding boot camps get people jobs/careers without a degree? - Onixelen
What if you didn&#x27;t go to a boot camp and learned on your own? Would you still have a similar career as long as you&#x27;re skilled? Is there something magical about a boot camp vs learning on your own?
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prostoalex
The only benefit I can see in comparison to self-learning is access to a human
being that can answer most questions. Given most bootcamps' focus on specific
stacks, I'd imagine they produce somewhat decent junior engineers (as long
there's a stack match) but poor senior engineers.

The employability of certain stacks (Swift + iOS, Java + Android, Node) is
very high at the moment, so immediate employment issues are likely well taken
care of, but long-term career prospects are somewhat dubious - I mean, there's
still market for stacks such as Visual Basic + SQL Server, or Perl, but it's
not red-hot.

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Calist0
>but poor senior engineers

By the time the bootcamp junior reaches the senior level he/she would have
already accumulated 5+ years of experience. That experience surely negates
most benefits gained from a degree.

it's not like the bootcamp grad will still only know one specific stack by the
time they reach senior. Any CS knowledge initially lacking should be acquired
through experience and self-teaching by then..

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prostoalex
> Any CS knowledge initially lacking should be acquired through experience and
> self-teaching by then

Sure, but how many people involved in a day-to-day job of (let's say)
supporting a Rails application in their spare time read up on (let's say) data
structures, algorithm design, operating systems, game design, database
management systems or functional programming?

In an ideal world everyone does this, in reality I found that professional
experience is more conducive to growing as a specialist vs growing as a
generalist - conversations with coworkers, dealing with bug reports, browsing
StackOverflow and attending conferences are all centered around getting
deeper, not broader.

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buchanaf
I would say thats a fair criticism of any programmer though. Unless you are
using data structures and algorithm design (etc.) on a relatively frequent
basis at work, you aren't going to remember much of your CS degree 3-4 years
down the road.

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andrewhayter
I was going to say the same thing.

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probinso
I suggest you take a look at groups like skillsfund. they audit boot camps and
provide scholarships.

the risk in going to a bootcamp, is that most people who would like to go to a
boot camp are very easy to take advantage of. career transition often means
that you are not in a position to be diligent or picky in your selection. many
boot camps will make claims like their average graduate make $x per year. You
want to make sure that you understand what percentage of their students
graduate, what percentage of their students get placed in the field, and how
they actually gather their averages.

unless your boot camp offers placement, and has transparent means of gathering
incomes , you are much more likely to make $(y < x) at your first company out
of a boot camp. This should not necessarily be a deterrent, but should be kept
in mind.

I have known graduates of boot camps to be exceptional developers, that will
likely do very well in the field. Their biggest challenge is placing their
first job.

others, who are likely without prior expirience, graduate with skills that are
just below industry needs. those need to find companies that are interested in
growing them actively, which is very difficult. if you can go into a program
with at least some proof of knowledge , you will be far better off.

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kbredemeier
Depending on the bootcamp, or school that you attend, it might come with some
industry recognition. For example, if a company has had success with hires
from hack reactor[1], 42[2], or Holberton[3], then they are generally more
likely to hire grads from that bootcamp. If you are simply self educated, then
you don't have the references for companies to go by.

[1] [http://www.hackreactor.com](http://www.hackreactor.com) [2]
[https://www.42.us.org](https://www.42.us.org) [3]
[https://www.holbertonschool.com](https://www.holbertonschool.com)

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kbredemeier
The most successful bootcamp graduates that I know had previous experience,
and attended the bootcamp as either a final step towards a career, or as a way
to brush up on a new technology. Bootcamps are not designed to give you all
the computer science training that is required to be successful in a tech
career, it's just simply too short of a time to search such a wide breath of
information. If you utilize bootcamps properly, they will yield great results.

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panorama
As a bootcamp graduate, I found that going to the bootcamp allowed me to learn
in 2 months what would've otherwise taken me (at least) a year to learn by
myself. I like to think I could have gotten a job self-learning, but I
essentially paid my tuition to save myself (at least) 10 months of time. Worth
every cent in that regard.

So yes, you could do it on your own, but I don't recommend it if you had the
choice.

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debacle
I've interviewed a few people who have gone to coding bootcamps. Some of them
have used it as spring board for learning more, some seem like they thought it
would just land them a job. One in particular said he learned more in 2 coding
bootcamps than throughout his entire CS degree.

They're just a tool, like a textbook or a tutorial website or anything else.
Most of what you get out of them is what you put into them.

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adamb_
We hired a couple guys from a code bootcamp after attending the camp's
graduation / final project presentations. While I can't speak towards what
effect it had on their overall skills, it clearly gave them great exposure.

