
Google bans apps that facilitate sale of marijuana - Illniyar
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-alphabet-play-store-marijuana/google-bans-apps-that-facilitate-sale-of-marijuana-idUSKCN1SZ2NZ
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ksaj
Illegal markets? It is legal in all of Canada, in pretty much the way alcohol
is. Are the apps unavailable in Canada where the legal pot (which is in some
cases far superior to the shaggy bits one would get on the streets) comes from
government certified sources?

But then again, I haven't seen a Google booze ad. Do they allow alcohol ads?

~~~
disordinary
It's the danger that we're getting as these global companies have more
influence over the entire planet. The morality of the home country is pushed
on those who want to use the service. Same thing with the whole Google /
Huawei stoush. US priorities have an impact on users all over the world.

~~~
latch
The morality of the largest economies (generally backed by the largest
military) has always been pushed onto others. Isn't this the way the world has
worked since the dawn of the first civilizations?

Not you specifically, but most people on HN have probably been the
overwhelming beneficiaries of this approach.

~~~
Barrin92
>Isn't this the way the world has worked since the dawn of the first
civilizations?

Not really, for most of humanity's history people could barely even figure out
what happened on the other side of the mountain or the sea.

The extreme degree of globalisation that carries these policies and attitudes
across the globe is pretty new. It wasn't even the case in the 60s or 70s say.
It's predominantly online markets that are dominated by individual companies,
control used to be significantly more national.

~~~
ygjb
> Not really, for most of humanity's history people could barely even figure
> out what happened on the other side of the mountain or the sea.

And yet, for around 30,000 years people have been going off to battle to
impose ideals, take stuff, or stop other folks imposing ideals and taking
stuff. The average mook in those battles may not have known what was going on,
nor did the folks who stayed home in relative safety, but make no mistake, the
wealthy and powerful have been imposing their morality as long as there has
been a threat to wealth and power... it just happens much more quickly and
broadly these days.

~~~
acct1771
Is this a good thing?

~~~
jammygit
The southern USA was forced to give up slavery. Not to condone war in general,
but there are at least a few examples that weren't strictly bad

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bayareanative
More than likely, Google's lawyers were worried about DA's in various US
states, cities or feds going after them. This has little or nothing to do with
"morality" or "ethics." This is CYA, not a moral panic.

~~~
slavik81
It has become a real problem for Canadians visiting the States[1]. The US
government doesn't seem to care whether it's legal in Canada or not.
Presumably that's because the law is written such that foreign legality is
irrelevant.

[1]: [https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2018/07/05/canadian-
cannab...](https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2018/07/05/canadian-cannabis-
workers-targeted-by-us-border-guards-for-lifetime-bans.html)

~~~
fuzz4lyfe
I'd hope they would apply this rule to people who engage in sex tourism with
children, legal in that nation or not for example. At the federal level the
crime of cannabis distribution is on the same level as that.

~~~
Nasrudith
It does already - I looked it up. It even applies to interstate lines with
varied age of consent - although it is a bit more intent based and grayer.

For example - going from say California - an 18 age of consent state to sleep
with a 16 year old in Nevada is illegal sex tourism. Likewise bringing a 16
year old from California to Nevada to try to evade the age of consent is
illegal.

But going to Nevada from California and sleeping with a 16 year old while not
there for that purpose (say on a business trip) would be legal.

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paxys
And yet a large chunk of Google employees and executives enjoy all of the
freedoms provided to them in the state of California, including legal
marijuana.

~~~
manfredo
"Legal marijuana" is a bit of a misrepresentation. In the eyes of the law,
cannabis remains illegal nation-wide. Federal law supersedes state laws on
controlled substances. States like California and Washington has not so much
legalized cannabis so much as they have repealed all their state laws and
deliberately refuse to enforce federal law on cannabis. For everyday people,
this effectively legalizes it. We can go to a store, buy a pack of joints, and
walk home with zero threat of legal repercussion. But for large organizations,
they still have good reason to be afraid of being subject to repercussions if
they monetize or facilitate the sale of marijuana.

And regardless, plenty of large tech companies have blanket policies of
avoiding controversial markets. Amazon does not sell ammo and many gun
accessories (e.g. magazines). They don't sell porn either as far as I know.

~~~
gnopgnip
This is not an accurate representation of the current status quo. Medical
marijuana is effectively legal at the federal level in states where it is
legal. The federal government, via the appropriations bill has not allocated
any funding to prosecuting these crime. More recent case law has clarified the
meaning of this, it explicitly forbids prosecuting these crimes in states
where medical marijuana is legal. In a number of cases where the accused was
charged and plead guilty, prosecution was later stopped(and hundreds of
thousands in cash, and precious metals that were seized, were all returned)
because of this.

~~~
manfredo
> Medical marijuana is effectively legal at the federal level in states where
> it is legal.

Do you not see the contradiction in this statement?

> Medical marijuana is effectively legal at the federal level in states where
> it is legal. The federal government, via the appropriations bill has not
> allocated any funding to prosecuting these crime. More recent case law has
> clarified the meaning of this, it explicitly forbids prosecuting these
> crimes in states where medical marijuana is legal. In a number of cases
> where the accused was charged and plead guilty, prosecution was later
> stopped(and hundreds of thousands in cash, and precious metals that were
> seized, were all returned) because of this.

Which completely agrees with the point I'm making. It's still against the law,
it's just that some states are refusing to enforce it. This is not the same
thing as something being legal. This is not just pedantic quibbling, it has
real consequences. The constitution forbids persecution for illegal actions so
long as they were legal at the time they were committed. But cannabis _isn 't_
legal. Which means that if the attitude towards cannabis changes, it is
possible for a future administration to persecute everyone that bought or sold
pot. Individuals like you an I may not care very much about this possibility,
but the shareholders and executives of multi billion dollar companies
unsurprisingly have a different mindset.

~~~
gnopgnip
It is not states that are refusing, but that the federal government is barred
from enforcing it. Legal marijuana spending in the US and Canada totaled $12
billion last year and is expected to hit $18 billion this year, in large part
because of the current status of the law.

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ta1234567890
Someone I know started a b2b business in the marijuana industry. Tried doing
google ads and got all their ads blocked. Every time they reached out to
support they gave them a different reason for blocking the ad. And every time
after complying and re-submitting, the ads would get blocked again. Finally
they gave up on Google ads.

~~~
throwaway66666
I bought and sold stock from a Marijuana ETF when they first got introduced.
And 3 days later my bank called me and told me I cannot do it again. Of course
I immediately tried doing it again after the call, but the online brokerage
system would return an error. So, if I can't trade stock from weed-related
business, but those tickers are listed and valid on NASDAQ (which is an
american index), who can?

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mastrsushi
Has anyone opposing this action thought maybe an aggressively competitive tech
corporation doesn't want to be held liable for assisting in distribution of a
drug that isn't nationwide legal? They have way larger concerns than worrying
about this.

~~~
paxys
Big national banks and credit card providers now openly take and store
payments for marijuana dispensaries. Companies happily provide them with
insurance and mortgages. There are mutual funds and ETFs on national exchanges
that invest in such businesses (and you can buy into them as well, from
anywhere in the country).

Somehow I don't think Google is scared of getting into trouble for allowing an
app that has a web browser with a reference to marijuana. It is a moral
stance, nothing else.

~~~
asdff
I've sampled plenty of wares and yet to see a vendor that isn't cash only. Is
this very recent news? Hasn't trickled into my neck of the woods yet. Those
ETFs and stocks are for canadian companies too I believe, even though they are
on the NYSE.

~~~
paxys
Every dispensary and website in California I've seen takes cards.

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RaceWon
For the love of god can we please make weed legal here in the US? Anyone,
anywhere can buy weed at anytime, and its been that way for like 50 fuckin
years now. Can we all agree that the war on weed is over, and the US Gov't
lost. WTF!!

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GreaterFool
I've been spending some time in California and I noticed a worrying trend that
it gets harder and harder to purchase marijuana. ID requirements are getting
more onerous, MasterCard no longer accepted, etc. Things are going backwards!

~~~
callmeal
Dispensaries cannot accept credit cards because the federal banking system is
off limits to them. But as far as id requirements go, you can walk into any
dispensary with a valid California drivers license (haven't really tried with
out of state ones), and cash purchase anything they have in stock.

------
oh_sigh
Thank goodness they shut this down quick. It's not like this was just a
straightforward app designed to keep tabs on your chattel, I mean female
family members. Marijuana actually hurts people!

~~~
amolo
>Marijuana actually hurts people!

How old are you again

~~~
cortesoft
The comment is pretty clearly sarcasm.

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jammygit
I’m literally texting a friend today about helping him with his legal Canadian
pot site. The importance of the “open web” sure got more concrete today

What is the real world small business alternative to the play Store -
progressive web apps? Fdroid?

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eadmund
A key difference between Android and iOS: on Android, there are alternatives
to Google’s app store; on iOS there are not. So it would be entirely possible
for someone who lives in a country where marijuana is legal and wishes to
facilitate the legal industry there to set up an app store (cloning F-Droid
could be a quick start) which offered such apps. He'd be out of luck on iOS.

The federal marijuana laws are — mostly — blatantly unconstitutional, of
course, but they are still on the books. I don't blame Google for not wanting
to litigate the issue; their lawyers are probably acutely aware of the
Backpage case.

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notus
It's dumb, but all they have to do is put the shopping cart on a responsive
website instead, minor inconvenience.

------
NorthOf33rd
I'll miss venmo.

This article is a bit thin on details. is this just black market? All sales?
something else?

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buildzr
Wonder what they mean by "facilitate"? Were certain mail order places offering
apps they're banning? directly taking payments?

Or are they seriously going after stuff like Weedmaps that just offers
references to places that sell.

~~~
Marsymars
Better source with answers to those questions:
[https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/05/29/no-chill-google-
jus...](https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/05/29/no-chill-google-just-banned-
marijuana-delivery-apps-from-the-play-store/)

------
Jerbyjoober
But yet they have booze delivery apps all throughout the Play Store. They said
no cannabis because the Play Store is for kids. But I suppose quick booze
delivery is fine for "their" kids.

“At Google Play, we’re committed to providing a positive, safe environment for
children and families,” the blog post read. “…After taking input from users
and developers we are evolving our Google Play policies to provide additional
protections for children and families.”

------
harry8
Better ban signal. Do you want that wrapped in "fighting terrorism", "war on
drugs" or "think of the children".

We google should not be in a position of power to decide what is allowable and
what is not. That is for elected officials. If they have more than reasonable
influence, break them up.

Same for any group of people anywhere. Get elected.

~~~
plemer
By using their services, we elect them.

Still, yes, citizens could attempt to effect government intervention.

But probably the average person has more leverage as a consumer than as a
political actor.

~~~
harry8
Nope. They have market power.

If there's 30 equivalent services to choose from and using none is also a
viable option there's no market power and no issue. I hope they get rich
without market power but it's of no significance to me.

As soon as they (for all values of they) have market power and can have a huge
effect over what you can and can't do - they need to be bound by law and
regulation. This is the textbook definition of market failure. Libertarians
and Bernie should see it much the same way. I personally believe you keep
regulation the hell out it until you have market failure (so I'm not with
bernie) - which this is, they're enacting defacto laws and taxes on the
population here for an agenda not agreed to by that population. Same as if
standard oil could tell you where you could drive your car. Same as if your
electricity company could tell you what you are allowed to read with your
electric lights. Same as if your phone company dropped your call for saying "f
__k " out loud.

Market failure is a thing that happens often (public goods, property rights
enforcement, industries that tend to monopoly) and we bring in regulation when
it does and watch those regulators closely(!!) We have elections to make sure
the regulation is done in a way that we can live with.

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Simulacra
This is a bit asinine, they’ll have to ban messaging apps and everything
because it all does the same thing.

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michaelbuckbee
This is a matter of geographic laws conflicting with worldwide applicability
and something we're seeing more and more of, both with things like GDPR but
also certain states having much tighter regulations around things like
biometrics. In that light, it's interesting to see what Google has done with
things like their Arts and Culture app, which has a "take a selfie and see
what artwork you most resemble" feature. That feature (but not the whole app)
is disabled if they detect that you're within the bounds of Illinois which has
some of the strictest regulations about personal data.

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throes_death
Thank goodness I just use skype and email to communicate with my dealer. Oh,
hang on, they're applications too :S

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sanxiyn
This is disappointing indeed.

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DonHopkins
I can't use gmail to communicate with my weed dealer any more? Damn.

------
ryanthedev
Time to convert to PWAs

~~~
dredmorbius
PWA?

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pythonwutang
Are these apps available on the Apple App Store?

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techntoke
But did they get rid of the apps to buy shrooms?

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villgax
Is Messenger getting banned?

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julienreszka
Just build progressive web apps already, break app store duopoly

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Kinnard
Well, this is a request for a startup!

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brooklyntribe
And what coder at Google is not a weekend stoner. I'm sure they're having a
laugh at this one.

~~~
oh_sigh
I'm not a weekend stoner. More of a weekday type to make the drudgery more
entertaining.

~~~
Stratoscope
Back in the day, we used code words so no one would know what we were talking
about.

Our favorite code word was "programmer's fuel."

~~~
sk0g
In my mind, that can only be one of the four: Adderall/ Dexies, weed, alcohol,
or maybe coffee. Not sure the code word is subtle enough!

~~~
buildzr
I mean, there's the old joke about programmers being machines that convert
coffee into code. I think it's pretty safe.

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alex-
My guess is it's less about a moral issue with marijuana and more about a fear
of upsetting people displaying the adds. Many of whom won't want to be
associated with something federally illegal. The alternative headline being
"Google displays illegal drug adds on school site" (or some other page that
probably should not be showing ads)

~~~
paxys
This has nothing to do with advertising. It applies to apps in the Play store.

~~~
alex-
Not sure how I missed that, thanks.

