
CIA is largest US spy agency, according to black budget leaked by Edward Snowden - wj
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cia-is-largest-us-spy-agency-according-to-black-budget-leaked-by-edward-snowden/2013/08/29/d8d6d5de-10ec-11e3-bdf6-e4fc677d94a1_story.html
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ihsw
It should be noted especially clearly that the CIA is the _only_ independent
US intelligence agency[1][2], where others fall under the following:

* Defense Department

* Department of Energy

* Department of Homeland Security

* Justice Department

* State Department

* Treasury Department

Now, the above mentioned departments directly fall under the purview of the
executive branch (through presidential appointment of directors,
administrators, or secretaries) whereas independent agencies have a commission
or a committee of some kind.

Whether or not this should concern you is up to you, and one thing to note is
that the independent agency's commissions have longer appointment terms than
the usual four-year presidential terms.

It should also be noted that the CIA is the go-to agency for clandestine
operations that involve reconnaissance, espionage, or subversive operations --
both domestically and abroad.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_Uni...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_United_States_government)

[2]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_intelligence_community#Membe...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_intelligence_community#Members)

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
> It should also be noted that the CIA is the go-to agency for clandestine
> operations that involve reconnaissance, espionage, or subversive operations
> -- both domestically and abroad.

I thought the CIA had limits placed on what they could do within the US?

~~~
mhurron
And the NSA is limited to not collecting details on Americans.

~~~
jonnybgood
The NSA, unlike the CIA, does not have such legal restrictions.

~~~
mhurron
Well I'm glad you cleared that up. Perhaps you could go to Washington and
clear this whole thing up for everyone.

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rgbrenner
I wasn't surprised (the CIA ran the drone program), but apparently it is a
common myth that the NSA is larger.

More importantly though.. what purpose does leaking this serve? It shows
nothing illegal, or even questionable. It has nothing to do with the documents
leaked previously. I just don't understand why he thought this needed to be
leaked.

~~~
MikeCapone
> More importantly though.. what purpose does leaking this serve? It shows
> nothing illegal, or even questionable. It has nothing to do with the
> documents leaked previously. I just don't understand why he thought this
> needed to be leaked.

Maybe it's about taxpayers knowing where their dollars are going? First you
show that your government is spying on you, and then you show how much of your
own money that costs..?

~~~
rgbrenner
If it were $100b+ or some other outrageous number, then perhaps... but the CIA
is $14.7b.. It's a drop in the bucket in the budget. It's even less than NASA,
and you can see how much the general public cares about that.

~~~
MikeCapone
Well, it _is_ less expensive to build data-centers and tap fiber-optic lines
than to send rockets to orbit and probes to Mars... (especially the way NASA
does it compared to, say, SpaceX.. but that's another discussion)

But in any case, I think it's fine to get these numbers public because it's
still taxpayer money. I think it would've been worse of Snowden NOT to release
numbers just because they aren't as shocking as they could've been.

Transparency should be about showing you what's there, not about cherry-
picking things to form a narrative that distorts what is there.

~~~
rgbrenner
"A whistleblower is a person who exposes misconduct, alleged dishonest or
illegal activity occurring in an organization." [0]

I support Snowden, but this document is none of those things.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whistleblower](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whistleblower)

~~~
socillion
None of what he has released qualifies him as a whistleblower, because it is
classified information (which has strictly regulated ways to handle
impropriety) and the activities are not illegal (ignoring tenuous Constitution
arguments).

~~~
ajays
I am sorry, but even if you absolutely ignore everything else, Clapper's lying
to Congress was illegal. He has also exposed the fact that NSA has violated
the constitution many times.

What is "classified" anyways? Some guy sitting somewhere decides that it is
"classified". So why can't some other guy decide that it is in the public
interest to not classify it?

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atrus
I'm confused, why is it surprising that the CIA is the largest spy agency?

~~~
ianstallings
Because the myth was that the NSA was many times larger than the CIA. The
reality is they pumped money into their Special Activities Division, which is
a paramilitary division that gets involved in a lot of clandestine military
actions. Usually they work side by side with DoD assets to accomplish military
missions. This basically changes the notion that the CIA is simply a bunch of
agents working out of embassies around the world to handle HUMINT assets that
do the real spying. They still do that of course but they've become a much
more _hands on_ agency.

~~~
JonSkeptic
Half-jokingly, I will posit an alternative theory: The NSA is still the
largest (has the most personnel), they just pay their people crap compared to
CIA.

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orenmazor
Why is this surprising? the CIA deals with people. the NSA deals with math.
shipping a shitload people around the world costs way more than running a
shitload of servers.

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aet
What about DIA? Budget ~ $25billion

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Intelligence_Agency](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Intelligence_Agency)

~~~
ianstallings
Also a big budget, most likely towards warfare related spying, such as
figuring out how many main battle tanks a particular bridge in China can hold.

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untog
It's kind of staggering that a contractor like Snowden had access to
information like this. What _possible_ reason could someone at his level have
for looking this up?

~~~
spdy
Thats what happens when you outsource your administrators. If i remember
correctly the CIA made a hosting deal with Amazon. So every high level Amazon
administrator can access highly classified informations.

And for Snowden he saw the black hole and everything they are planning he must
have seen some very scary stuff, hopefully he wont be the guy in jail or death
with a mark on his head "Told you so." and we did not act.

~~~
ianstallings
You know I keep hearing this myth. As if a real employee/agent could _never_
leak information. TS/SCI clearance is the same for everyone. Cleared is
cleared.

~~~
amitparikh
No it's not. All classified material is provided on a "Need to Know" basis.
You can't just have a clearance and get access to every classified document
out there, that's ridiculous.

~~~
frankydp
Just to expounded. Once you get passed Secret almost everything is
compartmentalized.

To speak to the Snowden leaks, in there entirety they now are clearly, far
outside the scope of any single user, unless that user was a multi-department
head or higher. It is more likely that the leaks are from multiple users now.
The story posted yesterday about the access level of the information lends
this theory some credibility, although none to the means of access.

~~~
ianstallings
More info on that, the press rumor that he gained access to other user
credentials:

[http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/29/20234171-...](http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/29/20234171-snowden-
impersonated-nsa-officials-sources-say?lite)

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galapago
In your face, NSA!

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joecurry
How is this news? I don't need a budget, or Snowden to tell me the obvious.

~~~
medlazik
It's more news than what honey booboo ate yesterday or whatever is in your
country's newspapers today.

~~~
jrs235
Or what hannah montana did at an entertainment award show.

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ImprovedSilence
uh... no shit Sherlock. Are there even any other "spy" agencies? Does the NSA
count as spying? Invasion of privacy, warentless and possible unlawful search,
yes. But the word "spy" implies people on the ground collecting information,
does it not? Does the NSA makes the tools that facilitate CIA spying? Perhaps.
Even so, of course the CIA spends more than anyone else, it costs a lot lot
LOT more to run and maintain huge network of humans planted throughout the
globe than it does to run a big ass data center.

~~~
migrantgeek
Heh, this is some real movie stuff. Do you think some Yale grad with blonde
hair is hanging around cafes in the Middle East or China trying to blend with
a disguise too?

Human collection work is done by that Yale grad paying some locals for info,
putting that info into a product (powerpoint) and sending up the chain where
no one ever looks at it again. The information is probably bad because the
local just wanted to feed his family and took money to rat on some guy he just
doesn't like.

That's why the CIA's budget is huge. All the payouts and bribes. I know
couriers grift plenty in the process too.

