
For first time ever, feds asked to sit out Defcon hacker conference - Libertatea
http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/07/for-first-time-ever-feds-asked-to-sit-out-defcon-hacker-conference/
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wrath
If they are going to ban the feds from attending the conference, are they
going to ban the contractors who are working with the feds also? I imagine
that the majority of the "security and hacking" type work is not done directly
by the feds but by their contractor (e.g. in Snowden's case he was not working
for the NSA but for Booz Allen Hamilton).

If they are just banning the feds then I think this is just a press stunt
since it won't change a single thing.

~~~
Udo
Of course it's a stunt. That's the whole point, to make a symbolic statement.
There is no imaginable practical consequence from this besides expressing
unhappiness. That doesn't mean the gesture is meaningless.

~~~
rantanplan
True. To be honest I would be quite suprised if they didn't do something like
this. Kudos to them.

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DanielRibeiro
Long HN discussion on this:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6024094](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6024094)

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adventured
Roll over and take it, or push back, those are the only two choices.

There's little question there will be consequences to pushing back against the
Feds, they're often vindictive bastards when you don't bow to their authority,
but who can stand to live with actively helping to ensnare your fellow
citizens in a police state?

~~~
dragontamer
Do you know any "Feds" yourself? You may be surprised at who is a "fed" or
not. Prejudice is definitely not a noble trait.

As was brought up in the other thread, Dark Tangent himself can be considered
a Fed, considering that he sits in the Homeland Security Advisory Council, as
well as a top officer in ICANN.

Perhaps we'll be seeing Dark Tangent resigning his post as Homeland Security
Advisory Council? Or perhaps there is more to "Feds" than you might think.

~~~
adventured
You're incorrect. I'd argue it depends on what you're prejudiced against, as
to whether it's noble. I happen to be very prejudiced against police states,
and government tyranny in general, and the people that actively help to make
it possible. In this case, my use of Feds is meant to represent the federal
authority figures that are leading the charge in erasing my civil liberties,
and I think that was obvious given the rampant discussions here for weeks on
the NSA and its leading proponents.

A proper synonym for prejudice is bias. I like that word even better than
prejudice in this case. It can be said that I'm absolutely biased about this
subject.

~~~
dragontamer
Lets start with a basic fact. A good portion of the NSA is dedicated to purely
defensive cybersecurity. They have contributed to SELinux, created the DES
encryption algorithm, as well as SHA-1 and SHA-2. NSA had a part in AES as
well. They were also involved in figuring out what happened with regards to
the Google and Nasdaq hacks.

Even if you believe the NSA's actions were wrong with regards to collection of
metadata... a good portion of even the NSA's workforce have nothing to do with
that current controversy.

Even then... if you manage to convince yourself to be a bigot towards ALL NSA
employees, you'd have to be awfully bigoted to then further apply your
judgement to the rest of the Federal Government workforce.

~~~
throwaway2048
and the german government under Hitler built the autobahns and created
Volkswagen.

At some point, any participation in a system that allows such broad and
systematic abuses needs to be called out.

yes, i know about godwin's law, thanks.

~~~
lclarkmichalek
I can't say I harbor any great animosity towards road builders in Germany in
the 1930s.

~~~
dragontamer
And ditto to us Americans as well. WWII was filled with errors, and yet our
ideals have remained strong.

A brief history lesson: Office of Censorship, Atomic Bomb (historic Kyoto was
on the list of places to utterly demolished... fortunately the Japanese
surrendered before then), Napalm-based firebombings against a civilian
population (Japan). Blatant racism in the form of the Japanese Internment
camps, etc.

The existence of these programs are in direct contradiction to many principles
that America stands for... especially the Office of Censorship. But we don't
hold any ill-will towards our Grandfathers during that time. At worst, we
recognize the specific faults in the specific laws in the context of the time
period, and then write laws to ensure it never happens again.

Same thing will happen here. "Feds" in general were not related to this
controversy. Showing ill-will to such a large group of people is straight up
bigotry. We have the intelligence today to focus our energies on specific
departments, specific people... specific regulations that have gone wrong in
this case.

And that is what law is about. Figuring out the root of the problem and
eradicating it. Painting entire groups of people (aka, "The Feds") with a
single brush is wrong.

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tehwalrus
No better group to stand up to them! I don't count myself among the defcon
types (my computer wouldn't last 5 minutes on their conference Wifi, I'm sure)
but they, if anyone, have the right mindset to challenge the feds, and come
out with only minor bruising.

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nathan_long
This could be important. If the security community continues to publicly hold
these agencies at arms length, working for them may acquire a stigma. If the
effect were strong enough, the agencies might feel a need to change their
stance in order to be able to hire.

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epoxyhockey
DT's post is analogous to _you can 't fire me, I quit_. The sequester is
affecting travel & training budgets and gov't employees can't afford to
attend.

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ropman76
I most likely going to get down voted for this, but am I the only one who sees
the irony in that this is a conference dedicated to breaking into systems and
they don't want the people who are arguably better at it than anyone else?

~~~
stevedub
They didn't break in, they asked for the keys and were given them

