
The rise of the sober bar - pneiko
http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20190510-can-you-have-any-fun-at-a-bar-with-no-booze
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helipad
I wish there were better non-alcoholic drinks that aren't sweet or hot.
There's only so many mocktails or teas I can drink.

One of the best part of pubs/bars is sitting down for a session and chatting
for a couple of hours. A cold beer is still refreshing the second or third
time around in a way that a sweet or hot drink isn't.

I can occasionally get lucky with a decent non-alcoholic beer in a bar, though
it tends to be more miss than hit.

~~~
52-6F-62
I’d be interested in a non alcoholic stout that rivalled Guinness. Bonus
points if it’s not a calorie bomb so I can drink a few. Highly improbable, I
know— but I’d love it.

~~~
ThePadawan
As a German, I feel like I need to recommend "Malzbier" [0], which is a quite
sweet malt beverage, but its varies by brand. I can't tell you if the English
language Wikipedia article [1] represents a broader class of drinks, though.

[0]
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malzbier](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malzbier)
[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malta_(soft_drink)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malta_\(soft_drink\))

~~~
52-6F-62
Looks like there’s a variety sold here in Canada. I’ll keep my eyes open
around the city to see if I can give it a try.

Sounds like it’s sweeter and maybe closer to an English malt beer than an
Irish stout, but it sounds like it might be close

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new_here
I used to drink quite a bit in high school, university and my early twenties.
At some point I decided that I wanted to start programming and build a side
project but found that having one or many drinks would write off the evening
or next day that I had planned to learn and develop myself.

So I stopped drinking alcohol and over time just began to prefer the clearer
state of mind. Eventually, it just seemed like alcohol was unnecessary money
and calories, and would end up tainting any free time I had ahead of me. So I
preferred not to drink.

Not that I have anything against drinking alcohol in moderation but I really
think there is a good opportunity to do interesting non-alcoholic drinks that
you could have on a night out.

~~~
Frost1x
I think many miss the point of drinking alcohol. While I perfectly respect
those who avoid it, the primary benefit of alcohol is to provide the
proverbial "social lubrication."

It "loosens" people up and tends to make people more friendly and open to
socialize with (approachable), even some of the most defensive people I've
met. Many in society today are fairly antisocial or fall into small groups at
social events that can be more difficult to start a discussion and mingle
with. They're frequently more judgemental at that point and may avoid people
based on ill conceived prejudices, limiting otherwise worthwhile relationships
they may form.

Alcohol helps break that barrier and lets people talk who would otherwise
rarely, if ever, talk. Sometimes this is fruitful, sometimes it's not. It
gives people a social "out" when it's not fruitful or their social groups
judge/criticize them for talking to someone different/odd, "well I was tipsy."

If viewed as an optimization problem, alcohol effectively provides a
stochastic gradient descent, mutation, momentum/inertia, annealing, or
whichever minima escape mechanism you prefer to explore social spaces beyond
what you've already found.

~~~
slenk
Smokers will say that cigarettes help them loosen up and meet people too.

They both cause cancer. I think you are glorifying poison a little much

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yhoneycomb
I’m hapa and I’ve noticed that boba shops are basically sober bars for Asian
people. Whenever I go back home I get boba with my old friends (who don’t
drink) and inevitably see someone from my high school class. I’m in my mid 20s
btw.

~~~
danohuiginn
Similarly, here in Berlin there are plenty of Turkish and Arab places which
are (either rigorously or primarily) alcohol-free. Also open late, also can
have a nice atmosphere.

Then there are the clubs where most people are using some drug other than
alcohol. It's obviously not quite the same, but I find it easier to avoid
drinking when there are lots of other people keeping off alcohol to avoid
killing their high. Generally, I've found the hardcore party people to have a
healthy attitude that it's every person's choice what they do or don't put
into their body.

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kibwen
Interesting, I'd be a patron if one of these were near me. I have the perfect
storm of mild bitter-sensitivity (I can choke down light beers, but something
higher in IBUs will make me retch), being the stepchild of an alcoholic, and
no particular fondness for being tipsy. Given how much of my socialization
happens at bars, it would be nice to have a wider variety of options than just
nursing the sweetest cider on the menu for hours.

It reminds me of my father's situation, who has been a vegetarian my entire
life; growing up in rural Pennsylvania he'd quite often have to settle for
ordering the mac and cheese from the kids' menu whenever we went out to eat
anywhere. I think he'd weep with joy if he saw the sheer abundance of options
available to my vegetarian friends in modern Boston.

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bluedino
So, it's like a coffee shop before wifi.

~~~
qntty
It sounds like they're distinguishing themselves by curating a 'rowdy'
atmosphere. I'm too young to remember coffee shops before wifi but I assume
people didn't dance.

~~~
bluedino
Around here was have 'christian' coffee shops, they are usually owned by a
nearby church.

They have non-alcoholic drinks and baked goods, along with things like card
tables, darts/pool, video games, that sort of thing.

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tuna-piano
Referenced bar's menu:
[https://getaway.bar/assets/images/menu_041619.pdf](https://getaway.bar/assets/images/menu_041619.pdf)

and yelp: [https://www.yelp.com/biz/getaway-new-
york-2](https://www.yelp.com/biz/getaway-new-york-2)

There are a variety of historically enjoyable and useful establishments that
may no longer serve as much of a population in todays world.

Perhaps sober bars are just the beginning?

-Sober bars

-Atheistic churches (social, life events, service)

-Shopless malls (social, activity, meeting place)

~~~
OMGTehAwsome
-Atheistic churches (social, life events, service)

These already exist. I think Unitarian Universalist churches are the most
common ones, but at least where I live we also have Sunday Assembly.

~~~
etrautmann
I grew up in one and this describes it fairly well. None of my family believes
in god but appreciated the community. There is an orientation towards general
spirituality, however any individual defines it for themselves but the purpose
is more for general community and moral thinking, etc.

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apacheCamel
I guess my question is, why can't you get the same experience at a regular
bar? I grew up in a pretty small town so whenever I went to the bar with
friends, I could just get a Pepsi or something similar if I was the DD. The
bartender never pressured me to drink and neither did my friends. I always
felt like that if I said I do not drink or if I was the DD, people would back
off. I can see the societal pressure whenever going to the bar to drink, but
is it really so much that you cannot resist? I am genuinely curious.

~~~
kibwen
Bars could indeed offer these options trivially, it may simply be that they've
never considered it, or considered that there might be a demand for it. As the
perpetual DD throughout my college career, if you're not a fan of sucking down
sugary soda or virgin Bloody Marys, be prepared to sip water for the night.

~~~
pixelrevision
It’s not really a great business plan for most bars. A typical non drinker
will have maybe 1 fancy drink then be happy with nursing a water for the
night. Someone who is drinking alcohol and getting in the mood will often pay
for 4-6 drinks. The more you get known for being a place that has good sober
alternatives the more you are going to get sober people coming in for that
atmosphere. At that point it might be wiser to just base your whole business
model around it like these places are doing.

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overthemoon
First of all, I'm extremely in favor of social spots that don't revolve around
alcohol. But what in the hell is going on with that price point? I would have
thought you were paying for rent + alcohol + labor when it comes to a regular
alcoholic cocktail, but one of those things is missing from the equation. Is
it just that it's in NYC? Is their overhead so high they need to charge the
equivalent of a meal per drink, or is it a status/luxury thing? Maybe my
standards are out of wack.

~~~
qntty
Yeah at the end of the day they are renting a space in NYC and not charging an
entry fee. Most of the cost of drinks at a bar are for things other than the
alcohol itself. Also, it sounds like they are offering expensive juices and
other ingredients to make up the money not spent on alcohol.

~~~
bpicolo
With 15/hr minimum wages, restaurants and bars in NYC have to aim for
something like 8% of revenue spent on rent to break even (meaning you need to
target 50-60k a month before you begin to break even on a fairly small space)

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Waterluvian
Alcohol has never made sense _to me_. I've tried it over and over, especially
in university, and I've never come to appreciate it. I'm 6'2 270lbs and about
half a beer in I lose situational awareness and peak cognitive performance and
feel vulnerable and it's just a really unenjoyable sensation.

But I always loved going to bars with friends and socializing. So this concept
is quite exciting to me.

~~~
emilfihlman
Yeaaah so that's placebo.

~~~
kaffeemitsahne
What is?

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loudtieblahblah
I don't understand people who don't drink, or who have/develop alcohol
problems,but feel the desperate need to participate in alcohol culture.

Go play a sport, a video Game, go grab a cup of coffee. Beat off to porn, have
a cookout, go to a concert. Go watch a sports game.

If you feel left out.. So what? Then have a beer in moderation.

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bobochan
It sounds like a savvy business move. My kids have been coming home from
university and are not interested in alcohol when offered, other parents
report the same. They really have a negative association with any drinking, in
part because of the binge drinking they see at school, but they also associate
craft beers, wines, and fancy cocktails with older generations that seem
obsessed with waiting in long lines to sample the next cool IPA.

On the other hand, they are growing up in an era where weed is either legal or
de-criminalized, so perhaps they just have more options.

~~~
viklove
> My kids have been coming home from university and are not interested in
> alcohol when offered, other parents report the same.

I did the same thing as a student, because I didn't want to come off to my
parents as a heavy drinker. Refusing a beer in front of them, then getting
shitfaced with my friends the next night was a pretty common occurrence. You
shouldn't take everything your kids say at face value -- and I don't mean that
as a bad thing, kids should keep some secrets from their parents, it helps
them grow up and learn to be independent.

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Invictus0
This isn't about alcohol. It's about loneliness and the loss of community.
This type of establishment fills the social space that a church might have had
several decades ago.

~~~
bpicolo
I'm actually surprised there aren't more options for social spaces. Cafes are
a sort of social-anti-social space, but past that it's somewhat lacking. Local
gaming stores for nerdy-style board gaming nights tend to do well.

Where's the big room full of people on comfortable couches enjoying some Smash
Brothers?

~~~
crehn
I think you might have a good idea there. With great execution, I could see
something like that taking off.

~~~
bpicolo
It's been my entirely unattempted thought for a decade now, and will probably
stay that way hah.

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umvi
Utah (unsurprisingly) has a really good rising "sober bar" scene. Lots of
unique soda shops with custom sodas.

Still, I'm not a huge fan of soda because it always leaves a sugary film in my
mouth that I dislike. I'm a bigger fan of juice-based smoothies. I would love
to see more nut/plant "milk" related options (with various spices for
flavoring instead of sugar). Pistachio milk is delicious but I've only ever
had it home made.

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tty2300
Drinks at bars always seem far to expensive in my opinion. I just can't see
how $13 for a drink that will last 15 minutes is worth it.

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dalbasal
Side note: _In 2016 just 56.9% of UK over-16s had had a drink in the week
before, the lowest percentage on record since the office began asking the
question in 2005_

This is an incredible statistic. ..especially considering what it would be if
you removed other drug users, religious abstainers and those who can't for
medical reasons. Humans and mind altering substances..

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DanCarvajal
As a former drinker who really loved beer, within the past few years there's
been a good number of dedicated NA craft breweries start up and they've
endeared themselves to me in a way no brands have. My favorites are Wellbeing
Brewing Co, Athletic Brewing Co, and Surreal Brewing Co.

It's been tough being in a neglected market but things are changing.

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empath75
Back in the original rave days, a lot of ‘juice bars’ opened up that didn’t
sell any alcohol, but nobody was sober inside.

~~~
vostok
Did they sell grapefruit juice?

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anchpop
Does anyone notice that the text of this article appears to be vibrating up
and down? Made me nauseous almost instantly. I'm on a Macbook, using Chrome.

~~~
alimw
Not for me. Two years sober.

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athroway
This just reeks of first world problems. People who "don't drink" (you know
the ones), take pride in it, and when it turns out they don't have as much fun
as their drinking friends, complain that alcohol and partying are "pushed on
them" and justify their need for complete teetotaling spaces.

I mean, these spaces already exist. They're called Starbucks, Costa Coffee,
and so on. They're fancy tea houses and smoothie stores or whatever. Why not
just go there instead?

~~~
qntty
Maybe the people who you have in mind aren't the target demographic. There are
plenty of people who prefer not to drink (or want to drink less) that
basically never talk about it.

People don't dance at Starbucks.

~~~
athroway
People don't dance when they're sober, period. Even in cultures where alcohol
isn't traditonally consumed, either another substance is used or very energic
and rhythmic music is performed in order to induce trance-like states. People
don't magically start moving when there isn't anything to entice them (drinks,
or money for professional dancers).

~~~
qntty
You obviously haven't been out with very extroverted people before. People can
be very suggestible, I think it's probably possible to create a space where
people dance without alcohol or anything else.

~~~
athroway
Yeah, they're called nightclubs with outrageous prices for drinks, or juice
bars. Been to a few myself. But somehow I doubt your idea of "a space where
people dance without alcohol" involves loud rave-type music. Maybe you could
clarify

~~~
qntty
Loud 'party' music? Yes. Rave music? Not necessarily.

~~~
athroway
Alright, I'm intrigued. What use case isn't filled by most nightclubs?

-Bouncers often compulsively search you in order to make sure you don't bring extra alcohol inside

-Prices are at a ridiculous premium, typically to profit from the artificial scarcity but also in order to discourage and punish drunken behavior

-Loud party music galore

What exactly is missing?

~~~
slenk
"but also in order to discourage and punish drunken behavior"

No club is trying to discourage patrons to have drinks.

Also, some people like conversation. You can't have that at a nightclub

~~~
athroway
Depends where you live. Many clubs display prohibitive/punitive fares on
purpose, by the owners' own admission - not everyone is a rational market
agent.

In many clubs there are also areas (usually smoking ones, but also backrooms,
lounge areas, and so on) where the sound is muted and conversations (and other
things) easily take place.

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clarry
I'd like alcohol & drug free parties and night clubs. Preferrably kid friendly
ones.

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fs111
I am sorry, but who brings a kid to a night club? I hope you are kidding.

~~~
clarry
Maybe I'm stretching the definition of night club, but why can't you envision
one that isn't hostile to the idea of having all ages be able to participate?

The best parties of my life were for all ages.

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wicket
> ...and the menu features a list of $13 (£10) cocktails with ingredients like
> tobacco syrup...

So instead of alcohol they serve nicotine-induced cocktails. Swap one drug for
another. I'll stick to alcohol, thanks.

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crehn
> the menu features a list of $13 (£10) cocktails

How did we get here?

