

Continuing the Windows 8 vision with Windows 8.1 - daigoba66
http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2013/05/30/continuing-the-windows-8-vision-with-windows-8-1.aspx

======
alan_cx
For what its worth....

Its my No3 son's 14th birthday and he has gathered enough money for a new PC.
He wants a new one for school and games. He is not some geek programming whiz
kid. He "uses" a computer, he "consumes" the internet. He is, in short, a mere
kid user. He already owns a laptop with Windows 8.

The discussion on spec and costs comes round to the operating system. Exact
quote: "I don't want windows 8, its a load of complete sh... crap. I'd rather
have Windows 7".

Kinda took me by surprise. I assumed being a kid he'd like and want the
newest, latest, whizzy thing. But no. Even a 14yo lad who is not a geek
doesn't want Windows 8, even after using for many months.

I reckon that is pretty damning.

~~~
BCM43
How much of that is him actually having tried it out and deciding that he does
not like it, and how much is him having heard about windows 8, and deciding
through that?

~~~
Shorel
What I truly don't understand is why when it comes to Windows8 lots of people
like you try to defend it, but when it comes to Ubuntu and Unity almost nobody
does.

~~~
mikeash
There's no "defense" here, just pointing out the potential influences.

------
Tomdarkness
For me, personally, none of these changes interest me, perhaps with the
exception of IE11.

I've had Windows 8 installed on my desktop PC since it came out as I took
advantage of their cheap upgrade offer from Windows 7 (I'd not of paid full
price for it). So here are my thoughts on the improvements in Windows 8.1 as
someone who uses it on a desktop, with a keyboard and mouse.

Personalization: The only time I ever see the new start menu is when I quickly
press Start and begin typing the name of some application I want to launch.
I've never rearranged any of the tiles and my screen is always off when I'm at
the lock screen so a slideshow on the lock screen is totally useless for me.

Search: "It is the modern version of the command line" What? How is a
integrated desktop and web search a modern version of the command line. That
makes no sense. I'd never use this new functionality anyway since I don't use
Bing and I can easily access google from my always open web browser.

Apps and Windows Store: Never used any metro apps or installed anything from
the Windows Store. I don't really feel that any of the metro apps have taken
any thought for those who are not using a touch interface.

Cloud Connectivity: "In Windows 8.1 your files can be saved directly to
SkyDrive, so you can always have your files with you." Wait, you could not do
this before Windows 8.1? I've never used SkyDrive but it seems silly to me
that you can now only just save your files directly to SkyDrive.

PC Settings: I can use the control panel just fine.

Internet Explorer: More frequent versions of IE seems like a good thing,
although I'd be more interested in the details of what is new generally rather
than just the new features for what seems to be the metro version.

Better Mouse and Keyboard Options: I see two minor tweaks, there is now a
windows logo and I can now configure what happens when I place my cursor in
different corners. How are these better options for keyboards and mouses?

I don't get it, they seem to be ignoring their whole previous customer base;
those who used Windows on their non-touch desktops and laptops. Sure, I
understand that these improvements will most likely be useful for those who
use Windows on their touch based device but these people are surely in the
minority so why focus the content of your "new features" announcement for the
minority?

~~~
potatolicious
> _"I don't get it, they seem to be ignoring their whole previous customer
> base; those who used Windows on their non-touch desktops and laptops."_

This is what frustrates me also.

I've had Windows 8 installed since (almost) day one on my desktop. I also have
a Surface (that hasn't been touched in months, oops).

MS was accused for years of advertising Windows' touch capabilities without
actually putting any real thought into them. Windows 7 had some vaunted touch-
compatibility changes which really just amounted to increasing the spacing
between some buttons. This made them _very hard_ to touch accurately, instead
of _impossible_ to touch accurately. Needless to say, people who were hoping
for a touch-capable Windows were sorely disappointed.

And now it looks like the pendulum has swung fully the other way. We have an
OS that works _great_ on a touch device, and _basically doesn't work_ on a
traditional mouse + keyboard device.

No, seriously. I've met people who used Win8 regularly who didn't know that
each app had a bottom bar - and how could they, there's zero discoverability
around it, even though critical app functionality is often contained in that
bar. (It's Windows+Z btw, that or a magical incantation of mouse movements).

On a touch device it's a simple swipe up from the bottom. Beautiful.

It still befuddles me every day that MS was willing to ship something that was
so fundamentally unfriendly to mouse and keyboard users. How anyone at MS
could look at the mouse gestures to trigger critical UI elements and call them
acceptable... I just don't know.

It seems to me that MS has bought fully into the doom and gloom re: the future
of computing. The zeitgeist is that in the long run laptops and desktops will
stop existing entirely and almost everyone will be using tablets instead. The
sales numbers for both iOS and Android tablets support this, but it's hard to
say where the equilibrium point will fall.

It makes sense that, strategically, MS wants to transition Windows from a
mouse-first to a touch-first UX, but this transition is awful.

~~~
kvb
Well, it seems like Microsoft is betting that touch is an inevitable feature
of most computing devices in the near future (which seems like a good bet to
me, even if it might be a year or so early). The desktop market is
disappearing in favor of laptops and tablets, and touch really is a nice
option on laptops even if it's not going to be the primary modality.

But regardless, as someone who uses the keyboard a lot Windows 8 is slightly
better than Windows 7 for me (e.g. Win+X for quick access to administrator
tools).

~~~
Shorel
I believe there's a huge difference between 'it's not growing' and 'it is
disappearing', specially with a market with the overwhelming massive size of
Windows.

That's where the current MS problem lies.

~~~
kvb
But desktops really are disappearing, and this will only accelerate if BYOD
initiatives succeed. Microsoft is in a tough spot - they could have made less
drastic changes to Windows 8 to placate existing desktop users, but that's the
path to obsolescence. Their execution hasn't been great, but I think that
recognizing the shift away from desktops is the right thing for them to do if
they want any relevance moving forward. Existing Windows 7 users don't need to
"upgrade" if they are unhappy with the changes made by Windows 8.

------
bluedevil2k
I had to get a new laptop for my wife, and I had no interest in educating her
how to use Windows 8 (or figuring it out myself). The only way it's been
usable for her was to install Start8.
(<http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/>). It's what MSFT _should_ be
adding into 8.1

I have no financial interest in StarDock.

~~~
leviathant
The absence of a start menu was confusing to me for about three minutes, and
then I figured out that the Metro screen is the start menu, just full size.
Ever since you've been able to pin programs to the taskbar at the bottom (or
side if you prefer) of the screen, my usage of the start menu fell to pressing
start, and typing the name of the program I hadn't pinned to the taskbar.

The start screen's the same for me, mostly, except I also click on "Weather"
and occasionally use the Trackage app.

While I don't think the Metro interface is the solution for everything or even
a primary direction to go in (I'm in desktop mode 98% of the time) I also
think putting a start menu back in is a step in the wrong direction.

~~~
darklajid
I fully agree: The start menu was never a good idea, we just used it. As soon
as you start installing and removing things, it quickly became cumbersome.
Windows XP (iirc?) introduced weird ideas of how to cope with the chaos in
that evergrowing, 3-4 level deep list of things you might or might not want to
start: The 'personalization' feature that kind of randomly hid most of your
menu. The hacks to order the menu (which never really worked reliably).

So the options today are fine, for my usecase, and I'm hard pressed to accept
that the old solution was better in general.

\- Pin programs to the taskbar \- Use shortcuts for common/important stuff
(Win+i, Win+x, Win+w, Win+f are the ones I need) \- Use the type to complete
thing otherwise

Most users I know moved to that workflow anyway, before Windows 8 (the start
menu entry on previous Windows versions. Spotlight or maybe QuickSilver before
that on OS X. Unity / Gnome Shell on Linux).

In my opinion the start menu needed constant micro-management and was a
hassle.

(Disclaimer: I'm not happy with the ui formerly known as Metro, but I do like
the 'type to launch' approach a lot)

~~~
cpleppert
>>\- Pin programs to the taskbar - Use shortcuts for common/important stuff
(Win+i, Win+x, Win+w, Win+f are the ones I need) - Use the type to complete
thing otherwise

You can also use Win+Number to switch right to the taskbar program. quite
convenient although I prefer using cap locks + home row keys to switch apps on
the mac.

>>Most users I know moved to that workflow anyway, before Windows 8 (the start
menu entry on previous Windows versions. Spotlight or maybe QuickSilver before
that on OS X. Unity / Gnome Shell on Linux).

I agree. But if your workflow is shortcuts + quick search to open everything
else it doesn't really matter if you use a start menu, something like metro or
the mac os x dock.

But I think that if you are asking what is good enough for 90% of our users,
is easily discoverable and reduces confusion it is hard to beat the start menu
+ taskbar. It isn't really a question of functionality, all you are doing is
managing graphical icons that launch programs. The key should be reducing
confusion for users who will use the program launcher for everything they do.
I don't hear a lot of people arguing that the metro launcher was something
that microsoft should have done without a focus on touch.

------
BruceIV
I've been using Windows 8 on my (multi-monitor) desktop for a few months now,
and the feature I'm most excited about is the ability to launch Metro apps on
both screens. There still aren't many good ones, but it's annoying when I want
to play backgammon while watching Netflix. Hopefully they also make the Start
screen dragable from screen to screen like all the Metro apps - it's an odd
incongruity in their design.

------
kabdib
There's a lot of nice work under the hood in Win8. It's too bad the internal
politics completely submerged it.

A simple "Sorry, we screwed up" would be nice to hear, rather than the
"Advancing forward into the bright future, we added a Start Button^H^H^H^H^H^H
Tip"

Let's put it another way: The moment that I hear the next version of Visual
Studio /requires/ Win8 or its ilk to run, I'm looking _hard_ at moving
everything I do to Linux.

~~~
bornhuetter
I don't think they particularly have screwed up. Sure, removing the start
button was a bad idea, but it's been blown way out of proportion. It was
pretty obvious that the media and a lot of users were going to hate Windows 8
regardless of how good or bad it was, so Microsoft have to just keep pushing
with the marketingspeak/bullshit. To "admit failure" would be to play into the
hands of those trying to paint Windows 8 (completely unfairly) as New Coke.

That being said, why not move to Linux now? Ubuntu and many other
distributions are already excellent desktop environments and are great for
programming. What sort of work are you doing? You're probably either stuck in
Windows, or you may as well move now.

~~~
kabdib
I don't want to move to Linux yet because (A) the development environments for
C++ are still way better on Windows, and (B) it's a pain in the ass to move
everything else.

Once (A) is gone, it's a powerful incentive to look seriously at Windows as a
going concern.

------
daigoba66
This may be a bit facetious but it seems like Windows 8 might have been the
biggest beta testing project ever.

But on a serious note I'm glad they're focusing on improving usability.

~~~
mscrivo
I don't understand why people keeping getting up in arms about Windows
releases, it's like they keep forgetting their M.O.

Microsoft's releases have always been like this, release something that
changes things drastically (either under the hood or visually), and often
breaks things or makes people mad because they don't like change. Then spend
an enormous amount of time refining it in a subsequent release until everyone
wonders how they ever used the old version. Frankly, I like their release
style and wish more companies would follow suit. It allows them innovate on a
predictable schedule, while giving those people who hate change, plenty of
time for it to sink in and come around.

I must say that I am not a fan of metro on the desktop either after using
Windows 8 since release, but I knew the refinements would come and these
changes are making it look great and finally are starting to show where they
set their sights from the start.

Looking forward to using windows 8.1 on a haswell based ultrabook with touch.

~~~
ricw
Just because Microsoft releases have been like this, doesn't mean they should!
Having users up in arms is a bad sign. It means you have managed change badly.
Others do this much better, incrementally and in bits that are manageable by
users. Its something Microsoft fundamentally doesn't understand. Completely
unlike Amazon, Google or Apple. When is the last time they released something
where people were up in arms?! Even with drastic changes such as in Android 4!

Microsoft just doesn't care about its users. But it should!

~~~
freehunter
If they've always been like this, shouldn't people expect it by now?

------
duiker101
Did I read it right? Animated backgrounds? That is the feature I am more
excited about!

~~~
bluedino
Family photos as the lock screen!

------
mikecane
This might help but I think everyone is missing one of the reasons why desktop
sales have tanked: Their screens.

People who are using tablets don't want to look at grainy big screens. These
screens look blurry. Stop in any store and check out the all-in-one Win 8
touch desktops. Their screens are awful.

And yes blah blah blah higher-res NON-touchscreen with mouse -- but going back
to a mouse after touch? That's another step back.

~~~
NZ_Matt
Does the average person buying a laptop from Bestbuy really care that much
about screen resolution?

The longer lifespans of PCs and laptops combined with the popularity of
smartphones and iPads is a more likely reason for the drop off in sales.

~~~
astrodust
So long as a person's existing computer can still view Facebook, check email,
and watch YouTube videos, there's no real impetus for them to upgrade. That
tablets and phones are quite capable of doing this means there's even less
need for a new PC.

Microsoft doesn't add anything new. Windows 95 was appreciably better at doing
what people already did, there was reason to upgrade, and Windows XP took that
even further. Ever since then they've been pretty rudderless. Windows 7
doesn't offer anything that Windows XP can't already do, apart from the new
theming. At least it's inoffensive, though, and lets you do whatever you want
to do without putting up a fuss.

Windows 8 is something nobody wants or needs, it's a very hard sell, and it's
even more bizarre that Microsoft would be pushing so hard on touch into the
market that least wants it: Corporate IT.

------
pdubs
>aggregated view of many content sources

I hope this means that the main Start Screen search will now search across
programs and settings. Makes it much easier for things that may or may not be
settings or apps (Control Panel, Device Manager, Event Viewer, Disk
Administration). That's been my #1 gripe with Win8 from day 1; they got rid of
universal start menu searching.

------
edtechdev
"the Search charm will provide global search results powered by Bing"

This is similar to what Ubuntu users complained about when they included
Amazon results in any searches.

Hopefully there will be an option to disable it and/or switch to another
search provider.

------
itsbits
Personalisation may be useful for WP8 as well..when are they planning to
update WP8?

~~~
hipponax3
8.1 is free, so it's the update for 8.0

------
JonoW
One welcome change is the "PC settings" one - sounds like all settings are
"metrofied", which will help the reduce the jarring flip to desktop mode when
you're not expecting it.

------
jpreiland
Search: "It is the modern version of the command line!"

While the search feature they're describing sounds cool, I'm curious as to
what they mean by a "modern command line".

~~~
wmeredith
This sounds like a "faster-horse" feature to me.

[http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/15297-if-i-had-asked-
people-...](http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/15297-if-i-had-asked-people-what-
they-wanted-they-would)

~~~
Samuel_Michon
When he came up with the Model T, people already had trains, trams, electric
cars, and bicycles at their disposal. One has to wonder whether the world
wouldn’t have been better off without Henry Ford’s gasoline automobiles.

------
kimagure
under the section "PC Settings" seems to a description for being able to
actually use the settings screen in your start menu that will reflect between
your start menu and desktop? i've been waiting for this... my start menu will
be in japanese even though i set my default keyboard to english and try to set
all the language settings to english, so that i'm stuck with a stupid half
english/japanese environment. even now, sometimes it's a toss-up whether or
not i get english or japanese labels for start menu apps like Skype and my
weather and mail apps seem to be permanently named 天気 and メール. i can't even
search those using hiragana or romanized phonetics, ugh. maybe this wouldn't
be a problem if i weren't practically illiterate.

also, if i ever log in to windows 8 without waiting something like a minute, i
always get boxes from something not working right when in some of the start
menu screens and when trying to type things in with any IME. see:
<http://i.imgur.com/78SNnpB.png>

sorry that my post turned into one big complaint. hopefully someone will show
me some very simple fixes to my problems!

~~~
drdaeman
Why use something you hate? Are you forced to stick with Windows for some
particular reason?

~~~
alan_cx
In my, and many cases, yes.

When an alternate OS runs all my tools and games, with 100% compatibility with
my hardware, I'll give it a go.

------
xpose2000
I've been using Windows 8 for months now and just about every update mentioned
I am completely uninterested in. The only exception is IE11.

~~~
fitzpasd
What are you interested in? I've been using Win8 since launch and I'm looking
forward to:

\- View all apps by swiping up

\- No longer auto-put app tiles on my Start screen

\- Improved windows store search

\- Different size app multi-screening

\- Boot to a different screen

\- Change which screen 'Start' gets you to

\- Edit functionality of corners

------
crb
Worth noting: the release of Windows 8 brings IE11, which means that Google's
"n-1" policy for browsers will now deprecate IE9.

IE9 is the last version that runs on Windows Vista (as IE8 was the latest
version to run on Windows XP.)

------
craigching
The quote I found most interesting was this:

"The response to Windows 8 has been substantial"

 _substantial_ not _positive_ , funny that!

------
mattmaroon
I'll probably still be using Start8 to turn it into a slightly better Windows
7.

------
k3n
Oh look, MS is again proselytizing what a huge success Win8 has been.

------
workbench
In what world could scrambling and backtracking backwards on decisions be
described as "Continuing the vision"

~~~
freehunter
How are they scrambling and backtracking decisions? How is that what you took
from this?

Sure, they added a start button, why not? But they also made all the PC
settings available from within the Metro environment. If the start button is a
step backwards in direction, pushing further away from requiring the desktop
is ten huge steps forward toward that vision.

