
Nine-year-old’s lunch blog shames school into making changes  - mkopinsky
http://grist.org/list/nine-year-olds-lunch-blog-shames-school-into-making-changes/
======
kevinalexbrown
Awesome and hilarious - I would be a very proud father or older brother.

But on a serious note, directed at the media woohoo that always ensues,
demanding better food for schools Jamie Oliver style misses the constraint of
a limited budget. Presumably there's some price/utility tradeoff between the
cost of the food and the health/taste.

Then there's a tradeoff between teacher quality and wages, school size and the
number of teachers you must hire, etc. What we should be asking is whether the
nutritional value outweighs wherever else the money would be spent. Maybe it
is, maybe it's not, but 'oh the school is shamed' is a little much.

Edit: of course the other discussion to have is whether there is a tradeoff
between cost and health (including additional cooks needed to produce
healthier food on a large scale). But I don't see this in most media
discussions either.

~~~
jdietrich
If your political system doesn't see child nutrition as a priority, your
political system needs to be burned to the ground. Are we honestly expected to
believe that a first world nation can't find room in the budget to give
children vegetables?

I cannot imagine a future in which they do not look back and think "Food was
cheaper in their age than at any point before or since, but they fed their
children worse than cattle. How could a school have computers but no fruit?".

~~~
mvzink
That first sentence isn't quite right. I agree, personally, that every
political system should be burned to the ground but, as usual, some Marx might
give a slightly saner perspective here: the problem is precisely that there
_is_ a political system, which separates political personhood from private,
civil personhood. Today, a group of people acts in social cooperation
primarily through a political system. They may have an important social goal,
like improving child nutrition, but the political system has already leeched
the social power necessary for its achievement. Thus, any other social goals
being worked out through the political system, such as economic growth,
national security, even personal liberty, are at odds with the social goal
you're concerned with, simply by nature of having to work through a defined,
singular system. You can only push and pull a lever in so many directions, no
matter how complicated and multi-axial it is. And as a sidenote, the political
system itself doesn't have goals, even if its initial creation did have
specific goals. They inform the system, but are not properties of it.

The intent of communism (esp. with the abolition of the state) is not,
contrary to many views, some evil dictatorial master plan, but simply to put
social power back into the hands of the people, allowing the existence and
implementation of real social priorities, such as child nutrition.

~~~
fennecfoxen
"the problem is precisely that there is a political system, which separates
political personhood from private, civil personhood."

I don't know about that! I have plenty of Politics in my life without it
needing every fibre of my life to be infused with it, thank you very much.
Rather, I shall go into the office tomorrow and go about business with Ron
Paul supporters and Occupy SF supporters alike, and sip espresso with them in
the afternoon, and I think there's something fundamentally humanizing about
being able to do that.

But then, I guess that's a classic divide, as I recently saw evidenced in this
opinion piece:
[http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405270230437150457740...](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304371504577406670699090132.html)
on the fundamental differences in the outlook on life as evidenced by
commencement speeches delivered by Barack Obama and by Mitt Romney.

~~~
mvzink
I'll admit this idea of political-social alienation/separation is a very
abstract notion, and usually meritless in terms of immediate practicality. But
you've demonstrated the reality of the notion itself: "I have plenty of
Politics in my life without it needing every fibre of my life to be infused
with it, thank you very much."

The claim is that "politics" as a social activity separate from universal,
daily human life is artificial and an accident of modern society. That is, in
the Marxian ideal you would never _think_ "politics in my life"—that
distinction between "politics" and "my life" would be a meaningless concept,
since "politics" would be a nonexistent concept. You are already an inherently
social being, and politics is just a particular abstraction of that sociality
which seems like a good idea in modern society but prevents an "ideal" society
(for many formulations of "ideal").

Think about it this way: when you vote, you are acting socially through
politics. When you perform a business transaction, you are acting socially
through economics. When you go to work (or leisure) with people of different
opinions, you are acting socially in a way that we generally just describe as
social. All these things are inherently intertwined, but modern society has
done a good job making them seem separate and distinct; it has invented terms
to distinguish the first two types of social activity, and has imposed rules
on them. The third example doesn't have another word because it isn't
consciously regulated by society—there is no abstraction for day-to-day
interactions with other people. Thus, a Marxian ideal sees no abstraction for
any other types of interactions with other people. They all collapsed into
one: there is no politics or economics, which are abstractions of sociality.

I'm not proposing any particular change in modern society that would bring
politics "into" your life, merely presenting a way of thinking about politics
and sociality that explains why child nutrition (and numerous other social
problems) are not also political problems.

------
slantyyz
I get the impression that had she been American, the school would have
suspended her for her actions.

~~~
superuser2
Of course, the justification wouldn't have been "her actions," but the
reasoning would go something like this:

1\. She is a student using personal electronics on school property during
school hours without permission. This is explicitly disallowed in the handbook
she and her parents would have been compelled to sign. This is not about food
- she broke the rules.

2\. That's great that she wants to be a journalist, but you never know what's
going to happen with children in possession of cameras. Sexting!
Cyberbullying! Violation of privacy! And with the Internet these days... She
is not old enough to appreciate the consequences of what can happen with
cameras. Maybe in 11th or 12th grade she can join extracurriculars that
introduce students to photography in an age-appropriate, supervised, and
controlled environment.

As a matter of policy, the school recommends that parents who give their
children smartphones use parental controls to disable the camera, restrict
internet access to school-approved websites, and always monitor calls and text
messages. If a child needs the Internet for research purposes, a parent should
always sit next to the child and supervise.

3\. All personal electronics are distractions and disrupt the learning
environment.

These arguments play _very_ well with the mainstream American media. In fact,
the media makes these arguments all the time, probably more vigorously than
school officials would.

This PR problem would have been trivial to crush had administration desired to
crush it.

~~~
unimpressive
The more conspiratorial side of me likes to think that school is a prison camp
used by vested interests to teach American citizens from a young age that they
have no rights and to stymie any sort of real intellectual development by
providing large globs of homework and projects.

But some people require more than the standard to weigh them down. Like in
Harrison Bergerson.[0] And the only reason that they don't force extra work to
match is that citizens would recognize the inherent unfairness and be offended
that their children weren't thought worthy of extra work. So instead they
paint it as a way to make your application look better to colleges. (Think hi-
cap.)

[0]: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron>

Disclosure: I am in high school.

~~~
droithomme
> school is a prison camp used by vested interests to teach American citizens
> from a young age that they have no rights and to stymie any sort of real
> intellectual development

There's a pretty strong argument made that that is actually the case and its
intentional, backed by actual history.

Have you read The Underground History of American Education? It's extremely
interesting and well referenced. Read it free here, or get the print book on
amazon if you like. <http://johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/index.htm>

~~~
vacri
So the equivalent amount of schooling in all other industrialised nations is a
separate thing? It's just in the US that it was engendered as a prison camp?
There's a fair amount of tinfoil in that claim.

~~~
unimpressive
For what it's worth, I did once read in a (To me obviously left leaning.)
textbook that the nation-state and nationalism were invented by France through
the use of something approximating the modern school system.

I searched the web, but couldn't find another source for you. Sorry.

------
lubutu
As a vegetarian growing up in England, I remember having non-packed lunch at
primary school only once: I was given a hamburger, and told to take the burger
out. At the time I just took it in my stride, but on reflection...

~~~
keithpeter
I became vegetarian when I went to University and had my very own Baby
Belling.

My school dinners in the UK were cooked in a kitchen in the school by cooks my
Mum knew, the veg and meat were bought locally and there was always meat and
two veg except Fridays when there was fish. I quite liked them. I have fond
memories of those chocolate brick puddings with the minty custard served from
metallic effect jugs (60s we are talking).

The trouble started in the UK when they _outsourced_ catering so the cook was
not a school employee and did not live over the road. You began to get meals
served from a central kitchen and produced as cheaply as possible using frozen
veg/mechanically recovered meat. Budgets were low.

Enter Jamie.

Good for this wain. You can get yourself excluded from a UK school for writing
things on the Web, but school meals are a 'safe' area of dissent.

~~~
adnam
School dinners in the 80s: healthy, fun and £1. In 1990 the kitchen was closed
down and we all had to eat packed lunch in a classroom. Decided there and then
never to vote Tory.

~~~
mibbitier
I do hope you're joking.

~~~
adnam
Not at all.

~~~
mibbitier
Well, FWIW, when I experienced strikes that brought the country to a complete
standstill, meant power cuts, no running water, etc, I decided I would never
vote Labour.

------
kamaal
I am really happy and surprised at the same time, to know that children in
first world countries get facilities like eating such awesome food provided
for free in school.

In my country(India), its a extremely far fetched thing to even assume that
somebody can provide such good quality food for free in school. When I was in
School around 12 years back, We would carry a lunch Tiffin packed at home,
sometimes I would go completely hungry if my mom was in a hurry so some slip
happened while making the Tiffin.

And yes, cakes, pastry, vegetables are all big things. My lunch used to be far
more modest.

I hope someday in my country we would capable of providing this kind of
facilities to kids.

~~~
adimitrov
It's not exactly free. It's 2£ (GBP) per meal, so about 176₹ (INR.)

The situation in India is certainly much worse than that in Great Britain,
though. I really hope the country will be able to stem the tide of poverty,
overpopulation, and corruption.

------
gavinlynch
I just want to point out a MUCH more serious attrocity being committed here:
This poor, sweet child is so under-educated in the UK that she doesn't even
understand the difference between "dinner" and "lunch".. We must rectify this
injustice! Will someone think of the children!!!

;)

~~~
bub
Dinner can mean lunch in Britain. Also, tea can be biscuits and cake in the
afternoon, or the main meal in the evening, which can also be called supper.

Google 'define dinner';

din·ner/ˈdinər/ Noun: The main meal of the day, taken either around midday or
in the evening.

~~~
cdcarter
I believe the winking face at the end was to imply some form of sarcasm or
joke.

~~~
gavinlynch
Correct :)

------
jbenz
From her blog ([http://neverseconds.blogspot.com.es/2012/05/i-had-really-
coo...](http://neverseconds.blogspot.com.es/2012/05/i-had-really-cool-morning-
at-school.html)):

 _> Today I have been sent lots of photos from America. This one was sent in
by Kimberley who works in the Glenview school district, near Chicago,
Illinois. Dad timed me to find Chicago on the globe and it took me 48 seconds
but it was not fair as I was looking for it spelt SHicargo._

I hope I'm that kind of dad someday. Cheers to her father for the
encouragement and for meeting with the school council. And of course cheers to
Martha.

------
tnash
If you watched Jamie Oliver's Food Revolution show to this point, it was quite
depressing how little was done about it on the American show. We unfortunately
live in a world where we value money over people's health.

~~~
simonbarker87
I have heard the argument that with a fully private healthcare system there is
no financial benefit to lobbying/pushing for a healthier society as the
healthcare sector can only make money off people who are ill - therefore it
comes down to who can afford to shout the loudest at those in charge. I guess
until there is a way to profit off prevention rather than cure there will
always be this sort of conflict of interests.

This is of course a mute point for this child as Scotland (for now, lets see
how the independence referendum goes) is NHS (national health service) based.

And I agree, Jamie's Food Revolution has highlighted this issue very well. The
poor attitude toward health seems universal however as one of the most
poignant scenes in any of his shows is the one of UK parents passing deep
fried fish and chips through the school fence at lunch time!

~~~
smcl
>> Scotland (for now, lets see how the independence referendum goes) is NHS
(national health service) based

Scotland leans left, there's no way the NHS is going even if independence is
granted.

~~~
simonbarker87
That's true, forgot that

------
gouranga
Good. Looking at the utter shit they feed children in the UK under the guise
of school dinners, it's nice to see someone documenting it. I send my children
in with a proper packed lunch and their friends take the piss out of them
because it's NOT processed shit.

I don't get humans sometimes.

~~~
nash
How often do you get Humans in your meals?

 _ducks_

~~~
gouranga
Very funny ;)

------
sparknlaunch12
Wow. Fantastic result for a young blogger. However I don't think the new meal
looks that much better, apart from the sprinkle of salad.

Before: Pizza, Corn, Potato Chip, Cupcake

After: Pasta, Potato, Cake, Salad

~~~
switch007
Exactly. The bar should be set a LOT higher.

~~~
lambada
I agree, but credit where credit is due: for immediate short-term changes that
won't break the tight budget it's not a bad start.

------
sritch
She writes remarkably well for a nine year-old, quite witty. I may have
smirked a couple times.

~~~
sukuriant
Indeed. It almost makes me question whether this was a real 9 year old, or a
teacher that wrote lower than their level (but not low enough) and that was
outraged by the activities ... and then signed it their child's name.

~~~
grecy
Possibly the family talked about the lunches and the Dad asked her to take
photos and tell a story about it....

It's clear he's helping with the tech aspect (i.e. number of hits), so he
could be helping with editing/spelling/content too.

I don't see a problem with that.

~~~
forza
According to the radio interview[1] it started out as a writing exercise.

[1] <http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17908017/VEG%20You%20and%20Yours.mp3>

------
SagelyGuru
It would almost be funny if it wasn't sickening, how things only get done when
publicity and TV celebrities get involved.

How come fruits and salads are suddenly possible now when they were not
before?

------
petercooper
It's crazy. I attended several British state schools in the 80s (none of which
seemed to be brimming with cash) and we always had a full meal on proper
plates - a meal that would look little different to what I have at home now.
Seeing random stuff thrown at a plastic tray is really depressing.

------
forza
The blog: <http://neverseconds.blogspot.com> Radio interview:
<http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17908017/VEG%20You%20and%20Yours.mp3>

------
watmough
Good grief, my Scottish school (Banchory Academy) had huge portions of fairly
stolid, if unspectacular food. Always plenty of veg and a meat, and a dessert.

Portions have downsized to airline proportions...

------
josefonseca
And this is in Scotland. Can you imagine what it is like in the poorest
countries in the world? This is why we need a permanent, open Internet on all
nations, because as soon as the truth comes out, someone does something about
it.

~~~
j-b
In the US we have corporate industrial processed food lobbyists influencing
what ends up in the school cafeteria's. We're used to having quick, processed
junk food and most people probably wouldn't want it any other way out of
ignorance of what 'real' food costs and can taste like. 'Poorer' countries eat
much less processed foods and more of the local 'real' foods.

------
jtchang
This right here is modern media effecting change. A few decades ago this would
have never happened. I am hopeful that more kids will learn to blog and write
about things that are so often opaque to society.

------
debacle
School lunches were never great, but they've gone down hill stupendously since
I was younger.

Making my son's lunch for him every morning might be the single greatest favor
I do for him on a day to day basis.

~~~
camiller
For what it is worth, about half way through this school year my daughters
school (and presumably all US schools) had to start following new healthy
eating guidelines imposed by the government.

[http://www.fns.usda.gov/cnd/governance/legislation/nutrition...](http://www.fns.usda.gov/cnd/governance/legislation/nutritionstandards.htm)

------
neilparikh
Does all of the USA and UK have school provided lunches? Here, where I am
(Canada), schools don't provide a lunch to the students, and the cafeteria
food that can be purchased is quite unhealthy (pizza, fries etc.). I'm in high
school right now, which might be why it's different, but I don't remember
being provided a lunch from the school in elementary school either.

------
fierarul
It's sad that such a thing needs international attention and Jamie Oliver to
add some normal food and vegetables to a kid's lunch.

If anything it shows the patchwork attitude and the total lack of pride, or
care for quality, of the people involved.

This is something that seems systemic to the (western?) world though...

------
ANH
This is great. I'll never forget the day I bit into a shard of metal in my
pizza in high school.

------
revicon
This is why I think the internet is cool.

------
cgs1019
I wonder if the blog is registered under her parent(s)'s account. I would
expect a 9-year-old user is outside the Blogger ToS.

~~~
kragen
Yes, due to COPPA, the blog will be suspended if Google finds out that it
belongs to a 9-year-old.

------
pragmatic
What is all the uproar about?

I looked through the pictures..didn't see any rice with maggots or anything
terrible...

Did I miss a post?

Is this something to do with the portions or taste or time to eat?

(I'm quite serious, not trying to troll).

~~~
DanBC
Lack of fruit and veg; unbalanced choice with plenty of carbs but weird
protein etc.

Whether that's because she choose odd things (and she is only 9, so maybe they
should be helping her chose better) or because that's the only selection is
open.

------
RommeDeSerieux
Can't help but wonder how the school will retaliate.

------
swalsh
I'm remembering my schools lunches, and frankly that looks miles better than
that served in my public school in Wisconsin.

------
switch007
I hope the school made changes despite the possibility of Jamie Oliver
creating a media storm.

------
squozzer
Please, sir, may I have no more?

~~~
forgotAgain
Yes, Dickens would seem to describe how the school views the children.
"Please, sir, I want some more" is all that they should be saying.

~~~
tomjen3
Slightly off topic, but Dickens is a fantastic writer, I haven't read anyone
as good as him (or even close) at writing engaging stories. Shakespeare is
better with languages, but Dickens writes better.

And if you want to read him, gutenberg has him
(<http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/730>).

Highly recommended.

------
instakill
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch in South African schools.

------
swah
Isn't this a little too smart for a 9-year old?

