
The Startup Side Project Bubble (2013) - amzans
https://davidhauser.com/post/47457211343/the-startup-side-project-bubble
======
cj
What is the point of this blog post?

1) There's not a "side project bubble". What happens tomorrow if everyone's
side projects are deleted from the internet? I don't think anything horrible
would happen, if anyone noticed at all. What bad things would happen if 2x
more people decide to start a new side project in 2020? Similarly, nothing.

2) Side projects are not "an expense the employer ends up paying." Quite the
opposite. Employees with side projects are spending _off the clock hours_
improving their skills and becoming a better developer. In most cases, this
_increases_ the employee's productivity and value to their day-job.

3) "And actually, we need to be honest. Not everyone is an entrepreneur." \--
so what? Having a side project isn't always about "being an entrepreneur". The
best side projects are the ones people work on for fun, because they want to
learn a new technology, or because they simply want to create a product that
solves a problem they themselves have.

I'm struggling to understand why the author writes so passionately against
people having fun working on projects outside of their day job.

~~~
pixelrevision
He’s longing for the days when companies had longevity and gave a shit about
people’s futures. At this point (especially in tech) if you are not working on
something interesting to you on the side you will eventually find yourself
laid off with a very deep knowledge of a very specific environment that is
(likely) outdated.

Would it be better to have full investment from your employees? Sure. Is he
ready to invest in them for the next 30 years or give them 20% time to explore
things that are motivating to them? Probably not so much.

------
helen___keller
I don't get it. What's so bad about having an unsuccessful side project and
what's so bad about wanting to work on your own thing when you're not at work.

It's my free time, the company doesn't own that.

~~~
jayparth
The guy who wrote this piece is speaking from the perspective of an
entrepreneur himself. Presumably, he would like dedication and focus from his
employees. When I've worked at startups, that's what's been expected from me.
This is why he's saying this bubble "causes great startups to fail."

Aside from that, I've found that generally in my life, I can only do three
things well at any given time. Health, work, relationships, other goals... It
takes mental energy to make decisions and process things, and even you are
still spending the same amount of time on something. So yes, you can spend
your time elsewhere, but the fact that you have a second full time job is
highly correlated with you doing your first one worse. Are you claiming that
your productivity at work is going to be the same if you have a side project
or not? I definitely think there's a clear difference, having done it at one
time.

~~~
doublement
If he, as an employer and entrepreneur, feels he's not getting his money's
worth out of an employee, he should just fire that employee. If he is getting
his money's worth, he should stop complaining.

But trying to get more effort for the same money by anathematizing side
projects breaks encapsulation on the employee/employer relationship. It's
obnoxious and involves matters that are (literally) none of his business (at
least in California).

~~~
jayparth
I assume would fire an employee that's underperforming.

You haven't actually refuted the point of this article. You can do one thing
better than two. If you believe in your startup, then you'll do it better
working on it fulltime. Else, if you believe in the startup you're working
for, then just focus on that. You will probably get better outcomes on either
front.

This isn't a legal argument, it's general advice. He also didn't say you can't
do a full-time job and a startup on the side. He said it's hard to excel at
your job when you're doing a startup on the side.

~~~
doublement
Sure, you can do one thing better than two, but that doesn't mean the optimal
trade-off is going all-in on one or the other.

If your side-project has a low probability of a high reward, then having a
steady paycheck from a job is a good floor to have under you, if you're not
floating around on a cushion of wealth. The author closes with "I hope you
have what it takes to commit and become a real entrepreneur" but the reality
is "what it takes" is to a large extent money. If you don't have it, you need
to get it from your day job.

------
tenkabuto
The earlier discussion about this piece was pretty great:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5511815](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5511815)

------
nif2ee
"How dare you slave not work for me 24/7 so that I can buy that yacht? I
fucking own you, get back to work": the post

~~~
TuringNYC
It is actually worse than that. He isn't even asking _why_ his employees have
side gigs (hint: it is probably his own fault for not providing sufficient
growth/learning opportunities at work.)

Of course no response is universal, but i'd venture that most people working
at startups are seeking growth, learning, or excitement. They are probably
giving up pay at bigger firms in exchange for this. If they are not giving up
pay, they are probably at least giving up current cash and liquidity in pay
(i.e., stock options instead of public company benefits/stock).

So if they are then doing side hustles, it suggest to me, the _employer has
messed up_ and is probably not providing sufficient growth opportunities at
work.

Now, mind you, the employee is totally free to engage in [non competitive]
side hustles, but not all want to. But if the workplace doesnt provide
excitement, perhaps lets blame the workplace first?

------
noonespecial
Know what I consider a "side project"?

My "full time" job.

My life, wife, kids, and personal interests/growth. That's my real mission.

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pleasecalllater
Yea, on the other hand: more and more recruiters require to have a nice list
of side projects on github. I failed an interview a couple of times because of
that.

On the other hand: too often the "work hard, dedicate all your thoughts to
this project" just means: "let the owner buy a new jet, and the manager to get
a huge bonus... oh, btw. you will get fired as soon as you will show the first
sign of a burn out, then we find a new one who will happily work over the
weekends so we will get next car this year".

------
mnm1
Sounds like a shill for employers who want to control their employees lives so
completely, they want to prevent them from doing anything productive outside
of work hours. What a fucking bunch of garbage. There is nothing wrong with
starting side projects while working full time. And you know what, there's
nothing wrong with doing the minimum to get by at your day job, whether you
have a side project or not. This idea of giving your employer one's entire
life is frankly ridiculous, outdated, and frankly tiring. As if employers
don't already get plenty. They are not entitled to top performance. They are
not entitled to the employees' minds outside if work. They are not entitled to
anything but the mediocre at best work they solicit from the employees they
take advantage of and don't value. How about employers start valuing employees
first and then we can consider whether the employers even deserve ones best
effort. Until then, we'll have to listen to assholes like the article's author
scold us for doing something that's not in the best interest of our employer.
Fuck that.

------
rc_mob
Why would I innovate or put in extra effort at the day job when I don’t get
compensate for it. If they gave me bonus or or ownership shares for extra
effort I would. As a policy most companies do no have reward systems for
anything. I want reward for my innovations.

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acvny
What a moron

~~~
tonetheman
Perfect candidate for a sociopath CEO.

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Havoc
Business owner wants employees to focus solely on work. Big surprise

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mwcampbell
From the discussion in 2013 [1]:

> So if you pour your heart into your job, you get nothing for it.

What about knowing that I developed something that's useful to people? A raise
or bonus is nice to have, but not my motivation.

[1]:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5512166](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5512166)

------
encoderer
File under “did not age well” and move on.

Side projects take a slice but they expand the pie.

------
kejaed
2013

~~~
Apocryphon
So how’s that bubble been working out since then?

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meow_mix
The author does not know what people mean by "bubble". Pls ignore this post

