

College Without High School - tokenadult
http://www.mayafrost.com/blog/2009/09/19/college-without-high-school-blake-boles/

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mrshoe
> _My book is actually written for just those teens: the ones who have
> attempted to diligently follow school’s path but have only met
> disillusionment and boredom in the process. (Middle school is usually when
> this sets in.)_

That was me. I firmly believe that middle school and high school did more
damage than good for me, educationally. The only thing I really learned was
how to get the A grade while doing as little work as possible. I could have
learned and accomplished so much more in that time, and been better prepared
for college.

However, I have a hard time asserting that I would have been better off
skipping high school, overall. Education isn't the only thing you get out of
high school. You learn how to handle yourself in a variety of social
situations and with a variety of other people. High school might have
handicapped my education, but skipping it would have handicapped my social
skills.

~~~
sofal
I dunno, I think middle/high school just gives you the social skills you might
need in case you go to prison.

~~~
DavidSJ
I think X gives you the social skills you need for X.

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collint
>Look at the evidence. Look at MIT or Stanford’s online admissions guidelines
for homeschoolers. They don’t want high school diplomas. They don’t want some
perfect equivalent of 4 years of high school classes. They want teens who have
taken personal initiative and designed meaningful, independence-building
activities for themselves. They want teens who have boldly explored the realms
of business, international travel, and college-level research prior to
convincing themselves that they actually need college. Traditional high school
is very often a handicap in pursuing these character traits. And while not
every college has explicit homeschool admissions policies like MIT and
Stanford, the logic remains the same: colleges want dynamic, innovative teens
who leave the cookie-cutter approach behind for greener pastures.

As an "unschooler" I received similar advice from advisors and admissions.

In the end I didn't go to college, I found it wasn't for me. I couldn't stand
the thought of another four years of before cutting my teeth in the "real
world." I just couldn't take anybody's word that they were going to give me
the best preparation for what was to come next.

I just had to dive in.

It's not for everybody, but we can do more to help students whose time is
wasted in school.

If one is better suited to jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire
these are 4-6 years of experience s/he will never get back.

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wheels
I dropped out of high school at 16. You can still get into good colleges sans
a high school diploma. (Though it's much more of a fluke to get into a top-
tier school – but honestly, I wouldn't have had I graduated from my
podunkville high school either.)

Like many things, a high school diploma is a check in a box. If you deviate
from the standard path the onus is on you to demonstrate that you can still
cross the bridges that are laid out before you: people will be skeptical by
default. If you can make up for that with accomplishments far more impressive
than walking across the stage at 18, nobody after you're 19 will care that you
didn't.

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bayareaguy
An odd coincidence to be sure, but Hans Reiser[1] also skipped high school and
went to Berkeley via the same program Mr. Boles did.

1- <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Reiser>

~~~
UpFromTheGut
It's eerie for me to read that article; I am also a programmer that skipped
high school and recently graduated from UC Berkeley.

As far as skipping high school goes, I think I'd recommend it. I was immensely
bored in school before I did, and I wasn't a good student beforehand. I got
out of school several years early, and had more time to pursue things I was
interested in. Now, I have a few more free years than I would have had
otherwise, and because I worked through school, a financial cushion to take
time off, travel, and potentially start a business.

For those interested in skipping high school, it's very easy, and anyone can
do it. You should enroll at the local community college and ask the
universities that you are interested in what you should take. Your professors
will also be helpful in guiding your curriculum and helping you transfer. One
thing to consider, though, is that some private schools like MIT, Stanford,
and so on rarely accept transfer students. If you're interested in certain
private schools, you should ask their admissions councilors for admissions
statistics for transfers vs. freshman admits (and also general admissions
advice). Good luck!

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yardie
As a high school and college graduate I've got to chip in say this is gunk.
The author was motivated and ready to go to college. There are a lot of
motivated high school students as well. They've navigated the curriculum
successfully and got out unscathed.

I've talked to college admissions officials on this. Like so many before me, I
was smart and ready to jump off the carousel. Fortunately, someone steeped in
the game stopped me before I made a pretty bad decision. I could have dropped
out, got my GED and started to apply to universities. And I would have been
summarily rejected from the good ones.

Instead I stayed, finished up all my highschool requirements by sophomore year
(and most were done by freshman year). Leaving me 2 years to take college
prep, AP, and dual enrollment courses. All of this was done on the school
board's dime.

The blogger speaks about the author like everyone has the opportunity to
travel to Buenos Aires, enroll at an American University, and do extensive
travel. Unless something changed, AU is seriously expensive and is usually
full of the countries' elite. Having access to money buys you tons of things.
One of them being a good education anywhere.

Highschool may have its failings but atleast everyone is given the opportunity
to go. At this point, you're old enough to make choices and young enough not
to feel the consequences. I always hear of how bored people were when in
highschool. I rarely hear of anyone saying I took it up a notch and took the
harder classes.

I was awed when I set foot on campus. I met people that were much smarter and
much more accomplished than me. At home I was a a local hero for getting into
a good uni. Now I was in a class of local heroes. Some did major scientific
work (Intel, Westinghouse, ISF, etc.) before arriving. And others started
their first dotcom while in highschool.

While I understand the idea of unschooling, I'm not impressed with the attacks
on the public high school. I'm equally unimpressed with attacks on
homeschooling. Both require motivation, and homeschooling requires a bit of
sacrifice. I have friends that were homeschooled. None were socially awkward,
naive, nor ignorant. They understood that their parents made huge sacrifices
(loss of income and career) to provide that education.

The fact is, colleges, and now the military, are looking for smart, motivated
people. Just dropping out and getting a GED doesn't prove any of this and
might give the impression of the opposite.

~~~
realitygrill
Thanks for writing an alternate and reasonable perspective. I generally hold
very poor opinions about schooling and sometimes forget that it can and does
work for certain types of people.

As someone who dropped out of high school to go to college, and then
subsequently dropped out of said college, I am struck by the early
similarities. I am you but perhaps less disciplined - a lot of 'hyperbrain'
characteristics.

I'd also finished up my high school requirements by sophomore year (including
4 APs), although trying to set up dual enrollment was like pulling teeth in my
school district.

However, like mrshoe, I thought school damaged me educationally. To be
straight I'd say school was what killed my motivation - something along the
lines of that one Einstein quote - and allowed me to form maladaptive study
habits which I have never successfully eradicated.

Even now I am still unsure of what kind of advice to give a smart but
demotivated youngster. Usually default to:

 _If you don't make mistakes, you're not working on hard enough problems. And
that's a big mistake._ -Frank Wilczek

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freemanindia
I dropped out of high school and went to jr. college. At that time (and
probably still) California Community colleges had agreements with the UC
system such that if you fulfilled your general ed requirements with a specific
GPA you were guaranteed entrance as a junior transfer. For me this worked out
great.

~~~
chris11
Washington has a similar program. You can take college classes for free at
state run schools for up to two years while in high school. I know a bunch of
people who entered college as juniors immediately after graduating high
school. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_Start>

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redorb
I always just felt that I was waiting for the real world while I was in high
school, I didn't create more than 3 lasting friendships (and thats all I can
handle) ... so yeah there perhaps should be a option for alternatives that
don't lead to discrimination based on that decision.

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kiba
I don't like the fact that my parents is pressuring me to go to college even
after enduring four years of high pressure boredom.

Either I go to college, or I get kicked out.

I don't have a programming job yet, barely able to drive, and generally not
prepared for life beyond high school life.

I feel like the world is closing on me and I have no idea where to go other
than the painful path my parents and sister set out for me.

I wish I have the capability to navigate life on my own term, without
sacrifice in life quality.

Sure you went to school for 4 years to get what it look like very high pay but
do you really want to be stuck in corporate cubicle for the rest of your life?

I don't even know what drive kids to sacrifice their time for schooling and at
the same time have a life. They probably know calculus like it was the back of
their hand.

As for me? I just program for fun and do electronic hacking as another side
hobby. I can't do math even if my life depend on it. Beside my undiscoverable
underground hobbies, I am just very unremarkable student in a pool of
remarkablely bright students.

~~~
tomjen2
If there is something you really want, don't get sucked in to that "quality of
life" thing, because people mistakenly take it to mean having a life full of
material goods, including a good car while working at a job you hate.

What really brings you quality of life is doing what you love to do, and if
that means not going to college then that is the route you should take.

But it is entirely beside the point: It sounds like your parents are scared
about your future and don't want a "failure to launch" scenario,
understandable but annoying given your situation, so you might want to talk to
them about what you are going to do when you are not going to college (when
they seem apprehensive, and they will, just tell them that if it doesn't work
out you can always go to college "later").

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COD
Having just finished the book this week... those of you commenting based
solely on the interview are missing the point. The author is not advocating
that everybody should skip high school. He is advocating that everybody should
lead a life of adventure. For a lot of people, school is enough adventure for
them, and that is fine. The book speaks specifically to those kids that aren't
getting satisfaction following the standard path. He is laying out an
alternate path, but not the only path.

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johnswamps
There are some schools that specialize in offering admissions to students who
haven't completed high school, such as my alma mater, simon's rock college.
It's not quite what the author is advocating, but if there are any high
schoolers here (or parents of kids) looking to skip a year or two of high
school, it's worth looking into. Most students transfer to a more traditional
school after 2 years when they get their AA. I got my BA and am now in grad
school.

~~~
realitygrill
May I ask what you're doing your grad degree in? I attended SRC for a year and
dropped out (didn't know what I wanted out of school), but am always curious
about the fates of those who stuck around.

~~~
johnswamps
Getting my Phd in CS

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aik
Thanks for the link. I wish I would have been enlightened so early on. I
didn't realize the stupidity of typical college life until I was in my last
year.

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drhowarddrfine
Only skimmed the article but this sounds a lot like what we did with our two
homeschooled kids. They were "unschooled", as in pursuing what interested them
without regard to homework or grades. Both only went through 3rd grade in
grade school.

One is now a senior and the other a junior in college. One has a 4.0 average
while the other a B+. Both are pursuing what they love. Both work harder than
their peers and need no pushing from us.

~~~
thismat
I'm very interested in this "unschooling" technique. I've heard a little bit
about it before and it's really peaked my curiosity. Would you be willing to
chat further about this?

