
Ram Dass has died - okareaman
https://tricycle.org/trikedaily/ram-dass-dies/
======
imroot
I did some work for him about 15 years ago -- helping him set up an ecommerce
store with oscommerce. Really really bright guy, amazing staff that shared his
values, and a quaint little office space where they'd send the books and other
things out.

Really pleasant guy.

------
tim333
There's an earlier article discussed on HN that kind of summarises who he was

The Unified Theory Of Ram Dass [https://www.gq.com/story/the-unified-theory-
of-ram-dass](https://www.gq.com/story/the-unified-theory-of-ram-dass)

HN nov 18
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18558488](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18558488)

~~~
reggieband
From the GQ article:

> ... with his former life as a 29-year-old clinical psychologist on the
> faculty at Harvard named Dr. Richard Alpert. He'd been the pride of an
> esteemed Jewish family in Boston, with an impressive résumé (gigs at
> Stanford and Berkeley, a corner office and sterling reputation at Harvard)
> and all the trappings of success that came with his swinging young
> professorship, including a blue Mercedes-Benz, a Triumph motorcycle, a
> sailboat, a single-engine Cessna airplane, a live-in girlfriend in an
> apartment on one side of town and a live-in boyfriend on the other.

Maybe I'm out-of-touch with Harvard compensation ranges ... but is this
practical given solely his salary or would he have need to supplement his
income with family wealth or other income sources?

~~~
kirsebaer
He had family money.

------
Quipunotch104
"Now the whole idea of a meditative practice is the process of very simply
extricating awareness from the identification with thought & sensation." \-
Ram Dass

------
rapsey
To any podcast listener I highly recommend: Ram Dass Here and Now.

It along with reading the Bhagavad Gita certainly changed my life and mindset
forever.

~~~
tim333
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9I4SVWpfdM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9I4SVWpfdM)
I guess?

~~~
rapsey
yes

------
refset
Richard was a beautiful soul who recognised, embraced and embodied the primacy
of love. His life was his message.

------
foolfoolz
he kept taking lsd trying to to recreate that specific feeling the trip can
give you only to later learn you can get to that place without the drugs.

i had no idea he had a debilitating stroke. imagine being someone who’s life
is defined by your good ability to articulate ideas hard to explain and
communicate with anyone and then instantly turn to someone who has trouble
expressing your thoughts. and doing that 20 years. man getting old fucking
blows

~~~
briga
I wonder if the chronic LSD use and the stroke were related.

~~~
lambdaba
There's absolutely no scientific basis for that, besides that I don't think he
used LSD much if at all past the hippie period. Certainly not regularly (and
there are people who have used LSD weekly for years with no apparent damage)

~~~
nyolfen
the nyt obituary mentioned that he used it a couple of times a year into old
age

------
brooklyndude
No Apple right?

Be Here Now got Steve to India for a year. A year in India is a long time.

And back he came, and so came Macintosh.

There is a connection. Think different. India can do that to you. Along with
blowing your mind.

------
8bitsrule
Of all the bogus teachers of the 60-70s, Ram Dass was the real thing. He
overcame a lot, thanks to the example of Neem Karoli Baba. _Be Here Now_ was
consonant with and a testimony to The Perennial Tradition.

We live in times where that tradition - except where it's still living amongst
people close to the Earth - is completely blanketed by bogus substitutes and
diversions. Too bad, because we could sure use a macrodose.

------
lprubin
Through that article I looked into an organization Ram Dass was involved in
called Social Venture Network which seems to have rebranded as Social Venture
Circle.

The article seems to mistakenly say Ram Dass founded it (he's not mentioned in
their wikipedia article at all) and a post on his blog seems to just say he
"started to hang out with them" but it still seems like an interesting
organization. Does anybody have any experience or thoughts on it or their
initiatives?

I believe this is the current website:
[https://www.svcimpact.org/](https://www.svcimpact.org/)

------
lostgame
“Be Here Now” absolutely clusterfucked my brain when I first read it, on LSD.

This is sad news, but who knows what is beyond death’s door? He was done of
the few who not only sought out Death’s address but also mapped out the
neighborhood.

------
kick
This hit like a truck. I don't feel sad, but I do feel strongly about it. Hope
he met death in peace and excitement.

~~~
okareaman
Same here. I surprised myself by shedding a few tears, but they were happy
tears for a man and life well lived. His living example and teachings helped
me in many ways over the years, starting with the practice of living in the
moment or "Be Here Now" up to his talks on subjects like addiction. Here he
discusses his own addiction to food and the anxiety behind it: Overcoming
Addiction & Attachment - Ram Dass
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV7PyQDod40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV7PyQDod40)

------
kilroy_jones
I never understood the fascination with these gurus. They repackage old ideas
and dress them up a bit before using them to lure in weak-willed and gullible
devotees. Most, and Ram Dass was no exception, were incredibly flawed people,
albeit intelligent and charismatic, with clear psychogical issues.

Dass bounced around between gurus that exploited women and men before
returning to the US to do much the same. That, the drugs, and the lies over
the years just makes whatever he says unpalatable.

~~~
nishantvyas
Let's drill down,

Why go to gurus to listen to ideas or ideology, that you can read in books and
practice at your home?

Why go to college when you can learn anything from books or by working on it
(as profession or hobby)?

Why go to tax planner when you can file taxes on your own?

In World, where information is asymmetric, (and we lack time to acquire
information or expertise) we need help. They are our references/guides, with
assumption and hope of good faith (No fiduciary agreement)

This is classic Principal Agent Problem.

Does Principal has flaws? Yes. Do they always work in good faith? No.

Simply put, What to do with information/guidance one receive is their
prerogative and life/lifestyle of these people is theirs.

Should we appreciate ideas more than the people behind it? Yes. Will we ever
do it? No.

~~~
reggieband
I know you want to "drill down" but your choice of comparisons is not apt.

Why do people go to Tarot card readers? It is almost certainly possible to
study as much about Western esotericism and ritualistic practices as it is to
study about ancient Indian religions. You have the same asymmetry of knowledge
(Tarot card reader took the time to acquire expertise which you don't have
time to). You have the same person/idea division (maybe your Tarot card reader
_is_ a drunkard and a philanderer but he can sure read those cards).

I think we have some weird prejudice when it comes to Indian spirituality. For
some reason we bend over backwards to give it the benefit of the doubt that we
deny to other traditions. You want to compare Indian Gurus to college
professors and tax planners. The truth is they are closer to psychics and
spirit mediums.

~~~
nishantvyas
I feel you completely missed my argument here, which ended with,

Does Principal has flaws? Yes. Do they always work in good faith? No.

Simply put, What to do with information/guidance one receive is their
prerogative and life/lifestyle of these people is theirs.

Should we appreciate ideas more than the people behind it? Yes. Will we ever
do it? No.

———

One does not have to ”follow” these gurus, be it Indian or otherwise. But I
also believe, one should have open mind to listen to all ideas. Eventually,
What one doss with these ideas is one’s choice. It has nothing to do with
bending over backwards.

~~~
reggieband
> one should have open mind to listen to all ideas

Maybe you missed my argument then? Why not keep an open mind about Tarot,
astrology and the healing power of crystals? At least in the West, these ideas
are ridiculed outright and the ideas behind them mocked by the association.
Yet the "love is the answer" surface of most Guru philosophy has almost the
exact same philosophical centre as the esoteric roots of those practices. For
some reason while most feel no compulsion to defend western esotericism they
do insist people have an open mind about Indian spiritual ideas.

To be clear - I have no care at all what someone wants to study. My point is
that there is a drastic difference in how we treat these ideas within popular
culture. Spiritual teachers that peddle Indian ideas are treated significantly
differently than spiritual teachers that peddle western ideas. As far as I am
aware there is no basis for this. With your attempt to compare Indian
spiritual teachers to accountants and professors you just provided an
opportunity to highlight this difference. I know of no one who would allow
such a comparison for a Tarot card reader.

~~~
nishantvyas
What one study, listens or believe is their choice, regardless of the medium
through which one acquire that learnings (be it a professor or guru. By your
argument all professor and accounts are almost always correct because?)

Also, just because something is science does not make people believe it (for
the most part of our civilization earth was flat and for many global warning
is hoax) Similarly, just because something is NOT science does not make people
NOT believe it too.(the whole world of placebo is not science that has shown
to work for many)

cheers,

------
brooklyndude
It's fascinating to me, how this demographics on HN is really generally
clueless (except with a few exceptions), have NO CLUE to what happened in the
60's clueless. I guess it's just a generational thing.

That was probably one of the most incredible mind fuck earthquakes to blow up
our society and rebuild it.

But I guess that's history. And each generation has it's own. Today we have
Justin Bieber. Then we had Hendrix.

Times sure have changed. :-)

~~~
jjaredsimpson
9/11 and the financial crisis seemed pretty earthquake as well.

------
volume
“It’s entirely possible, as far as I’m concerned, psychedelics are another
yoga” Ram Dass in “The Only Dance There Is” page 47. Published 1970

November 26, 2019 The FDA is fast-tracking a second psilocybin drug to treat
depression [https://www.popsci.com/story/health/psilocybin-magic-
mushroo...](https://www.popsci.com/story/health/psilocybin-magic-mushroom-fda-
breakthrough-depression/)

~~~
krn
Richard Alpert (before becoming Ram Dass) on LSD experience in the interview
from the 1960s:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P3TrGCMHNU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P3TrGCMHNU)

And Timothy Leary in the interview from 1966:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXBg3BVDVHM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXBg3BVDVHM)

What seems extremely impressive now, is how clear their thinking was, and how
confident they felt in the importance of what they have to share.

And it wasn't something one could have just found in the books.

------
indy1952
What an amazing person. He has somewhat been my guide and mentor although I
have never met him personally. He will always be in my heart. Hope he achieves
whatever he hoped for in his afterlife.

------
swayvil
A good man. He will be missed.

I recommend his "Be Here Now". Such a fine book.

------
carlagmail
This was posted on Twitter:

“I encourage you to make peace with death, to see it as the culminating
adventure of this adventure called life.

It is not an error.

It is not a failure.

It is taking off a tight shoe which you have worn well.”

\- @BabaRamDass

️️️️️️️

------
kranner
> Curious to see how a spiritual adept would react to LSD, Alpert gave
> Maharaj-ji a whopping dose. It had zero effect on the holy man.

This is oversimplified and maybe a bit misleading.

Ram Dass's own account[1] of giving Neem Karoli Baba the "Yogi Medicine" is
more colourful and to me suggests that there was some effect and that the Baba
was able to tolerate it for the first hour, after which Ram Dass was possibly
not present with the Baba for further observations.

[1] [https://www.ramdass.org/ram-dass-gives-maharaji-the-yogi-
med...](https://www.ramdass.org/ram-dass-gives-maharaji-the-yogi-medicine/)

~~~
kick
Your comment is leaving out the last part, which is crucial:

 _And then we waited. After some time he pulled the blanket over his face, and
when he came out after a moment his eyes were rolling and his mouth was ajar
and he looked totally mad. I got upset. What was happening? Had I misjudged
his powers? After all, he was an old man (though how old I had no idea), and I
had let him take twelve hundred micrograms. Maybe last time he had thrown them
away and then he read my mind and was trying to prove to me he could do it,
not realizing how strong the “medicine” really was. Guilt and anxiety poured
through me. But when I looked at him again he was perfectly normal and looking
at the watch.

At the end of an hour it was obvious nothing had happened. His reactions had
been a total put-on. And then he asked, “Have you got anything stronger?” I
didn’t. Then he said, “These medicines were used in Kullu Valley long ago. But
yogis have lost that knowledge. They were used with fasting. Nobody knows now.
To take them with no effect, your mind must be firmly fixed on God. Others
would be afraid to take. Many saints would not take this.” And he left it at
that._

~~~
kranner
I left out the whole thing, actually, but my opinion took that into account. I
get the impression that Ram Dass was a bit of a Karoli Baba fanboy and
certainly the drug had enough of an effect that Karoli Baba felt something,
even if he didn't outwardly show it; or perhaps Ram Dass was too starry-eyed
to note it as such.

~~~
hos234
Well it teaches us a couple things.

The same narrative replays with many successful people - Bruce Lee (Jiddu
Krishnamurthi), John Lennon, Brian Josephson (Mahesh Yogi), Steve Jobs etc
etc. And from there it becomes myth for the rest of the population.

Taking drugs/performing a ritual/chanting a prayer/meeting yoda (authority
figure) etc - is people trying to cope with something that has happened in
their life.

Therapy options weren't great back then, and people had to work out by
themselves, what we take for granted in a modern psychology textbook today,
all while going through some traumatic life event.

Even today it's not straight forward to do and it becomes easy to poke holes
in the path people took and even currently take. Which then leads to
defensiveness and reactions, which further misguide and mislead everyone.

It also points at the need of some smart people for an Authority Figure to
validate whatever new narrative they are trying to rebuild about themselves
and the world after they go through some trauma and their existing narratives
break down.

~~~
kranner
I didn't intend to come across as poking holes into Alpert's telling of the
Karoli Baba/LSD story. If anything, Alpert told it seemingly without
deliberate exaggeration.

It's the retelling of the story in this oversimplified version (as I've even
heard Sam Harris tell in a podcast) of a Himalayan Yogi taking LSD with no
effect that I wanted to highlight as incorrect, in the sense that it diverges
significantly from Alpert's own account.

And yes, I also think he was a bit overly enthusiastic about Karoli Baba at
the time. Don't we all act like that at many points in our lives?

~~~
hos234
Agree. I was just adding some context about these narratives. And I really
have no issues with anything you have said.

------
blaeks
touch base here: "Be here now" transformed my brainz too. afaik Ram Dass is
well and alive, and will be for many years to come

------
krn
"When you go out into the woods, and you look at trees, you see all these
different trees. And some of them are bent, and some of them are straight, and
some of them are evergreens, and some of them are whatever. And you look at
the tree and you allow it. You see why it is the way it is. You sort of
understand that it didn’t get enough light, and so it turned that way. And you
don’t get all emotional about it. You just allow it. You appreciate the tree.

The minute you get near humans, you lose all that. And you are constantly
saying ‘You are too this, or I’m too this.’ That judgment mind comes in. And
so I practice turning people into trees. Which means appreciating them just
the way they are."

– Ram Dass

~~~
mmcgaha
I get the concept of appreciating people for what they are, but I don't know
what to do with this knowledge. Maybe I can apply it to an eccentric neighbor,
but how would I apply it to an unproductive employee, lying partner, or self-
destructive friend.

Thinking more about this, the forest is like a busy sidewalk full of people,
but the people in our lives are more like the beautiful tree in the back yard
that we take care of.

~~~
crazygringo
In practice, you deal with the unproductive employee, lying partner, etc. the
same way you always have. You still need to protect your own interests and not
let people take advantage of you.

But it means you don't let it _affect you emotionally_ in the same way. While
most people have a kind of internal monologue that goes "why are these people
so bad, why is the world wronging me, I didn't do anything to deserve this,
why does life suck so bad sometimes, it's all these people's fault" you
instead learn to just accept that the world has these people and not to waste
emotional angst on them. You deal with them as necessary and then move on
_internally_ without anger, hatred, etc.

~~~
tonystubblebine
I used to lose my shit at underpeforming co-workers all the time and then a
more experienced guy pulled me aside and gave me a quote that was intended to
do the same thing as Ram Dass's tree quote:

"Nobody comes to work to do a bad job."

What I realized that judging other people narrowed my vision so that I
couldn't see any options. All I could see was that they were bad people who
were going to hurt the project.

When I could hold off on personalizing other people's performance then I could
start to spot other reasons and sometimes even figure out constructive
solutions. Maybe the other person is not delivering the code I need because
they were given competing priorities.

So, yeah, as you say, you still have to deal with these situations. I just
found that I could see many more options for how to deal once I stopped being
so judgmental.

~~~
DataWorker
If a man is crossing a river And an empty boat collides with his own skiff,
Even though he be a bad-tempered man He will not become very angry. But if he
sees a man in the boat, He will shout at him to steer clear. If the shout is
not heard, he will shout again, And yet again, and begin cursing. And all
because there is somebody in the boat. Yet if the boat were empty. He would
not be shouting, and not angry.

If you can empty your own boat Crossing the river of the world, No one will
oppose you, No one will seek to harm you.

~~~
Jamwinner
If you think someone would hold their tounge because their car got hot by an
empty one, i got some youtube compilations to enlighten you.

------
okareaman
"If there is an enduring figure emblematic of the consciousness revolution of
the 1960s and 70s, it is arguably the Harvard professor and LSD researcher-
turned-spiritual leader born Richard Alpert but known the world over as Ram
Dass."

------
russellbeattie
I think HN needs an obituaries section. I'm not kidding.

------
starpilot
"RAM" in headline should not be all caps, right?

------
fnord77
> LSD-75

lsd-25

...

> Curious to see how a spiritual adept would react to LSD, Alpert gave
> Maharaj-ji a whopping dose. It had zero effect on the holy man.

This is so unlikely. Either the drug was no good, or Maharaj-ji was on
something that negates the effects of LSD (anti-depressants, benzos,
barbiturates, etc.)

~~~
zupreme
Theory: It had no effect because his sadhana already crossed the zone of
consciousness LSD moves one to.

In advanced meditation alot of “effort” is spent on ignoring ephemeral
phenomena including the kinds of visual and auditory phenomena LSD induces. An
expert meditator at his level would likely be able to move freely into the
“LSD Frequency” and out again with no drugs required.

~~~
armitron
I call bullshit on that. Besides the rampant charlatanism that infects the
"expert" meditator community, my own multi-decade experience with meditation
tells me that anyone who compares it to LSD or other strong psychedelics
doesn't know what he's talking about.

You could be meditating for 10 years and not come anywhere near close to what
1 hit of LSD unveils about the mind and "you".

~~~
kranner
To be fair, we have no way to disprove anything about another person's
subjective experience. Someone could have a special aptitude or talent in
"meditation", broadly speaking. Our own accomplishments may not be any
indication.

~~~
croh
In same context, I never understood how did we conclude sugar is sweet ? Does
my 'sweet' feeling is same as yours ? Crazy paradox.

~~~
kranner
Everyone's experience of sweetness may indeed be different, but at least the
standard way to induce the experience of sweetness is ubiquitous and
immediate. Just taste sugar. Decades of meditative experience is far less
commonly found.

------
dvfjsdhgfv
His name is Ram, not RAM. I find this kind of headline editorializing
inapropriate given the circumstances.

~~~
okareaman
I don't know what happened there. I certainly didn't do that intentionally. I
thought I just copied the title. I think I did and then the magazine revised
their headline. Mods, please fix it.

~~~
kick
It's likely HN's common error fixer. You and the magazine probably did nothing
wrong, don't worry.

~~~
tejtm
ahh yes, this is a computer oriented site and the abbreviation for random
access memory may have it own special place it the spell checker.

~~~
samatman
Scunthorpe strikes again!

------
Glosster
Spirituality and philosophy are for people who can't get into actually
important fields related to science, right?

~~~
rapsey
Science will not help you with:

* Dealing with your own death or death of loved ones.

* Finding meaning and purpose to life.

* Dealing with anger.

* Coping with trauma.

* Coping with adversity.

* Dealing with addiction.

* Coping with social anxiety, acceptance or isolation.

* ...

~~~
asdf21
Psychology / psychiatry aren't sciences?

~~~
rapsey
Reading all the psychology books in the world will not help one who is going
through one or more of these issues.

Calling them soft sciences is the most generous categorization they deserve.

~~~
n4r9
I disagree. Reading about psychology can provide you with a framework for
understanding your own thought patterns and the behaviour of others. It's also
often helpful to know that what you're going through isn't uniquely
catastrophic; that it's part of the human condition which others have
experienced and worked through. These may not work as fast or effectively as a
therapist - especially in the acute phases - but they'd help considerably.

------
ArtWomb
Prediction: resurgent Hindutva and global projection of Indian economic and
cultural influence will result in a global awakening to the wisdom contained
in ancient Vedic traditions. We might even see Sanskrit learning centers
outside language departments like Oxford and Chicago.

I think the best place to start is probably with the Ramayana. And the age old
question troubling sages for ages: Why does Ram banish Sita?

[https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Ramayana](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Ramayana)

