
Show HN: Math Attack – My side project of 3 years - Sanctor
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.DawnSprite.MathAttack
======
Sanctor
Hey everyone!

I've been working on this game for about 3 years in my spare time. It's a
simple puzzle game utilizing arithmetic operators. I made it using Unity3D.
All the visual assets are made from scratch and the sound effects come from
various free sound effect sites.

Although the idea is simple I've put a lot of effort into it to make it look
polished. For example there is a day/night cycle which serves no other purpose
than looking good :) City lights turn on and off, crickets chirp at night and
birds tweet during the day. And lots of other details.

It is ad supported but ads are shown only after you've lost the game, not
while you're playing. I hope you'll find it unobtrusive.

I know it may not be everyone's cup of tea but I'm very proud of it. I've
finally released a personal project. I'd be very glad if you played it an gave
me feedback. Also I'd be happy to answer any questions relating to the process
of making and releasing the game if I'm able to do so.

Thanks!

~~~
Majestic121
Your game looks very nice, but I'm not a big fan of ads. Is there a way to pay
a premium for an ad free version?

~~~
Sanctor
I can maybe add a "Remove Ads" IAP. This is such a niche game I didn't think
anyone would be willing to pay for it. Also if you sell the game or offer IAPs
you have to get into some sort of merchant agreement with Google, I don't
quite know how that works.

But I'll work on it. Thanks for the feedback!

~~~
karmajunkie
Yes, I second that... I'll pay for a good math game for my kid—I don't let him
play ad-based games though.

~~~
randlet
Thirded. This game is a little advanced for my 4 y.o. but I would MUCH rather
pay a couple dollars to have ad free games. Most of the free educational kids
games are crappy to use for a 4 y.o. because they pop up ads over the game.
Inevitably she clicks on them by accident and then ends up in the Play store
and confused about what happened or how to get back to her game.

~~~
clbrook
I made a math game that was ad-free. It started out with a $1 purchase price
at first launch, but I decided to make it free since it was not being
downloaded. I'm curious if you have any advice on how to market to your
audience of "parents that will pay for ad-free kids' games".

~~~
the_watcher
Free to download, then $1 to remove ads or unlock the full game. I get the
frustration, but I'm someone who pretty much never pays up front for an app,
but the bar for getting me to pay $1 to remove ads or unlock features is
extraordinarily low. I basically need about an hour or so of use before I'm
willing to invest (which is unfortunately necessary thanks to the hundreds of
essentially useless apps I've downloaded in the past).

------
josho
When you want to grow revenue past what ads support look into purchasable
themes. E.g. have zombies or godzilla skins (targeting boys), and similar for
girls.

I had jumped on the app store bandwagon at the outset and did alright selling
apps at 99¢-2.99 but was hesitant to switch to IAP. It turns out I was wrong
and the kids apps that did switch faired well enough to continue. E.g. While I
was fighting for 99¢ sales, other similar apps were selling $10 bundles for
graphical skins. As a developer it makes me ill that the core experience is
worth nothing, but some new flashy artwork can be sold for $10. Sigh, but it
works.

Good luck.

~~~
Sanctor
Thanks for sharing your experience. I will think about it.

Most of the games I see nowadays sell what's basically shortcuts to success.
This creates a very crooked sense of value especially in children that play
these games. But selling environment and character skins and other non-
functional stuff might be a good idea.

~~~
josho
If you look around, it obviously works. E.g. Triple-A games these days all
have premium editions that add new character skins. What was less certain for
me was if it would work for kids _educational_ content. I was skeptical
because kids games have shorter play lengths, e.g. kids spent a few minutes at
a time on our games. But, observing both the market and my own children's
later experience they were keen to have the shiny new thing in the app, even
if it didn't change the gameplay. People are inherently tuned into wanting
novelty, simply swapping out graphics plays to that human desire.

So, yeh, don't sell shortcuts to success, but do sell theme packs. It works.

------
Sanctor
By the way I don't normally use social platforms much but I created a twitter
account for this. It's @DawnspriteGames

I haven't tweeted anything yet :), but I'll let you know when there is an
update.

You can also send me E-Mails at support@dawnsprite.com. I'll reply from my
personal E-Mail account.

I'd like to thank you all again! This is a wonderful community. I'll keep
reading and responding to feedback here.

------
macadata12
Great job! Coincidentally I was talking to my son today about needing to speed
up his reaction time with simple multiplication. If there was an option to put
this game into a mode where it asked multiplication questions only that would
fit the bill perfectly. Taking this further, being able to choose addition
only, or addition/subtraction only, or subtraction with/without negatives
would make it playable by a lot of different ages. Also, I'd pay for an add-
free version.

~~~
Sanctor
I am planning to implement a practice mode which will allow you to choose
which operations and what kinds of numbers you want to practice with.

Your insight as a parent is very important for me. Thank you!

------
soneca
Just downloaded and played. Nice, fun. Easy tasks but that provoke an anxiety
that makes it harder.

I would change something on the onboarding. I had no idea what to do when I
started playing. The tips and numbers highlighting are good, but before that a
short text or visual explanation that I must create the equation which result
is the falling bomb would help a lot.

~~~
Sanctor
This is what I'm imagining:

After the first balloon is in view, the game is paused. It says "Assemble the
equation by pressing on the operation and the numbers." And an animation of a
pixel-art thumb coming down on the buttons in a sort of gif-loop until you
complete the tutorial.

How does that sound?

~~~
soneca
Great! To be perfect, just use a less formal wording. Write in a way that a
kid will understand and not find weird.

~~~
Sanctor
Awesome feedback! Something like "Let's create the equation!"

~~~
dyarosla
Better suggestion. Dont use words. It's a math game. You should be able to
showcase what to do with ONLY visuals. Darken out the game on the first
missile. Highlight the missile with a focus circle. Then point to one specific
equation in the bottom (actually create it for the player). Show that 1 + 5 =
6. Something simple. Then have the missile explode, lighten out the tutorial
intro, and let the player continue. Or add a secondary tutorial section with
two missiles at once and a multiplication solution.

This also has the benefit that your game becomes internationally-friendly to
play (independent of language).

Also, like others have said, dont put in ads. Not for an educational game. Not
lucrative at all, and totally goes against what your audience (parents getting
this game for their kids) want to see.

~~~
Sanctor
That is a brilliant suggestion. I was thinking of localization. Maybe I can
replace more words, like play and settings buttons with play and cog icons.

And yes, I tried to select the education category from google play developer
console, but it wouldn't let me because of the ads. I will most certainly
release a paid ad-free version. People can try the free one and then make the
purchase for their kids.

------
krat0sprakhar
This looks awesome! I'm playing with Clojure(script) lately and I think the
format of this game would perfectly suit the web.

Do you mind if I create an open-source version of this as a web-based game
(with credits given accordingly, of course!)

~~~
Sanctor
Of course! I'd be willing to open source my own code if anyone is interested.
It's not the best quality code I've written though, that's why I have
reservations about open sourcing it :)

------
hatsunearu
reminds me of this game:
[http://flippybitandtheattackofthehexadecimalsfrombase16.com/](http://flippybitandtheattackofthehexadecimalsfrombase16.com/)

there is also an android version.

~~~
Sanctor
Wow, awesome game. It IS really similar. I bookmarked it.

~~~
Colex
What game did you base yours on?

~~~
Sanctor
I was thinking of something like Missile Command, originally.

------
erdemozg
Congratulations. It requires so much dedication to finish a side project.

~~~
Sanctor
Thank you! It really does. The hardest part is getting at least passable
skills in all the areas required for game development. I'm a full time
programmer and I draw but I had no idea how to handle sound, things like that.

------
EmFl
Hello, Played just once for now, really enjoyed it, love the fact that you can
destroy multiple balloons having the same number ! Congratulations. Is it
intentional that there is no pause button ?

~~~
Sanctor
It is, kind of... :) I envisioned this game to be very casual. Played in
sessions, while you commuted or otherwise had to pass time. But a lot of my
friends who played the game also requested a pause button. I might give in.

PS: You can just press the home button on your device, and when you come back,
it will continue where you left it :)

~~~
sharemywin
might want to have a learning start button which allows pausing and negative
points if you buy an answer. I have a second grader that I think would play
it.

~~~
Sanctor
I'm planning a Practice mode which will help kids of all ages to choose
whatever kind of play experience they are comfortable with. Thanks for the
feedback!

------
rb808
This is great.

The main suggestion is to have finer grained difficulty settings - mainly so
that younger children can use it. IE first graders can only add small numbers.
Take a look at Sushi Monster.

~~~
Sanctor
I'll check it out. Difficulty setting is a great idea. I was also thinking
about adding a practice section where you can select the operations you want
as well as the types of numbers.

------
mkagenius
I had made a similar game, or all math games just look similar :
[http://mkagenius.github.io/](http://mkagenius.github.io/)

~~~
philbarr
I also did something very similar:

[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.simplyappe...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.simplyapped.calculate)

It's supposed to be like the "numbers" round from the show Countdown in the
UK.

~~~
Sanctor
I love that show! Especially the 8 out of 10 cats version.

------
devgutt
Loved the game. I don't mind about the ads. It was well thought, because when
you lose, you deserved ;)

As I suggestion. You didn't need to waste time in so much detail for the first
version. If you haven't mentioned about the birds and the building lights I
would never have notice. It is a nice to have, but surely it would be better
to ship the game earlier. Even though, I would rather like different cities.
The city is destroyed, no matter what :0

~~~
Sanctor
Yes, in hindsight I could have released it way sooner. Even now I couldn't
implement half the things I wanted to implement. It's hard make compromises
and cut things out. I wanted to deliver what was in my head perfectly. Let
this be a lesson to everyone out there I guess :) Release, then iterate.
Otherwise you miss out on so much valuable feedback for years.

------
DrScump
Why does it need access to photos/media/files? (That's the only flagged
permission request)

Also, I found it frustrating. There were some totals that _could not_ be
reached (e.g. "14" where there was no 6 and no 9, and you can't use a 7
twice), so that city unfairly dies. I killed enough cities as it is via
"Missile Command" over the years as it is.

~~~
Sanctor
The "Share" functionality takes a screen shot and has to save it somewhere.
That is the reason for that permission request. If you revoke that permission,
the game will still work but you'll have to take the screen shots yourself if
ever you want to share your score.

The totals are picked from the numbers that are given to you to use. There is
no possibility of a total that cannot be reached by the numbers provided. But
I'll check to see if I have some sort of bug in the code.

edit: I've added a notice to the store listing so there's no confusion.

------
Sanctor
Ad-Free version is out now!

[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.DawnSprite...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.DawnSprite.MathAttackEducation)

------
16bytes
Neat game! It would be interesting to hear about your ad revenue numbers,
especially before and after pointing to HN.

Also, it sounds like you're thinking about a paid, ad-free version. It would
be another interesting analysis to compare the revenue streams of both apps.

Cheers! Great work!

~~~
Sanctor
I will do that in a blog post, if ever there is anything of worth to write
about :)

I've just checked and since this post I've made around 3 dollars :D I don't
know if sharing this violates some agreement I've accepted without realizing.

Thank you!

------
oron
Looks cool, very nice retro look for the high scores and sprites!

~~~
Sanctor
Thank you! I'm 27 and I never stopped enjoying the retro look I'm accustomed
to from my childhood. I tried to replicate it.

------
simooooo
When the hints stopped I had no idea how to determine which number I had to
calculate

Edit:ah they're on the balloons. I assumed as they were so pixelated they
couldn't

~~~
Sanctor
The short visual tutorial might help with this as well I imagine. I wrote it
as an answer to another comment, I can't copy paste as I had to go on mobile.

------
sleepychu
Neat! I've never used unity, which bits did it provide for you? The missile
tracking looks pretty cool for example, was that available from the library?

~~~
Sanctor
Unity provides all the low level engine stuff. Both the missile and the
falling bomb are GameObjects in Unity jargon. They have positions as Vector3
types. I get them both and get the difference vector. Then according to the
magnitude of that, I add acceleration to the rocket and so on...

The trail of the rockets and the smoke they produce are particle creators
provided by Unity. You provide the sprites and tweak settings.

It is possible to find add-ons for unity in it's built in asset store to do
most of the things but I haven't used it. Except for Google AdMob integration.

------
carlmungz
Although I've not played the game (I only have an iOS device), I'd like to say
well done for finishing your side project!

~~~
Sanctor
Thank you! I bought a Mac Mini the same time I made my first commit on this
project so I could build for iOS. I will definitely release an iOS version.

It's just that, I have to get an iPhone and pay $100 for the developer
program. It's out of my price range for now :) I developed this game using my
late 2012 Glaxy Note 2.

~~~
kejaed
Just a note, to work on the port you don't need a device to run in the
simulator and you don't need to pay the $100 until you want to submit to the
store. As of last year you can install on personal devices without paying the
$100 either.

~~~
Sanctor
I'll get XCode and check it out as soon as I can. I didn't know about the
personal device thing.

------
aedron
Congrats, it looks fantastic, it is obvious you have worked hard on the
details, (deceptively) simple graphics notwithstanding.

~~~
Sanctor
The core game mechanic was done in a couple of weeks. The rest took two and a
half years :D Some more details:

There are multiple kinds of clouds, which can spawn at specific heights. They
are spawned at semi-random intervals.

The stars only shine after midnight, they are dull at dusk.

Every object's colour values are separately changed according to the time of
day. There is a delay between UI and scene dawn/dusk times because you're
supposed to be far away and looking at the distant city.

I can write all day about this stuff, as I'm very excited but I'll control
myself for now :)

~~~
aedron
Awesome, that's what I meant by 'deceptive' :) Simple on first glance, but
somehow everything just looks good.

------
harryfcallahan
Core mechanics looks like in my game that I'm working on. Funny core principle
are same but games are so much different.

Congrats on launch!

~~~
Sanctor
Thank you very much! I'd love to play your game as well.

------
maluta
Is there any plan to enable translations in the app? I'd love help adding a
Brazillian Portuguese (pt-br) version.

~~~
Sanctor
Yes, definitely. I don't currently have a system implemented for this, but I
will. Can I contact you about this once it's ready?

~~~
maluta
Sure. Please tiago.maluta@gmail.com / I'm also @maluta at Github.

------
tvanantwerp
Reminds me of the kind of games I played as a kid in the school computer lab.
Well done!

~~~
Sanctor
Thank you! I'd be happy if kids played my game and remembered it somehow in
their adulthood :)

------
supersan
Congrat on shipping. The game idea is very original and interesting. I will
definitely give this a try (forgot to bring my phone today but thanks to the
really nice feature of Play store that lets you install apps from browser, it
should be installed on my phone already).

~~~
Sanctor
Thank you! I'd be happy to hear your opinion, either here or through e-mail
once you've played it.

------
richardboegli
Just watched the video, looks real good. WELL DONE!

~~~
Sanctor
THANK YOU! That was done with Movie Maker :D

------
ommunist
I'd pay for it on Apple Store!

------
winterismute
Is this another Frog Fractions?

~~~
Sanctor
I hadn't heard of Frog Fractions. I'll check it out.

