
No Alcohol, No Coffee for 27 Months (2016) - edzx
https://www.vanschneider.com/no-alcohol-no-coffee-for-15-months-this-is-what-happened
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qalmakka
> In the summer I now drink ice tea, in the winter regular tea.

Is the OP aware that tea also contains caffeine, right? Regular black tea has
generally much less than espresso, but it's still a caffeinated beverage.

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jerome-jh
I can drink much coffee and feel almost no effect (although I usually stick to
two coffees a day).

When I drink tea, I have shaking hands, especially with the bottled ice tea
from the supermarket.

Let's say I wanted to change from coffee to another hot but not sweet
beverage: which one?

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nathanaldensr
Have you considered the shaking hands might actually be caffeine _withdrawal_?

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jerome-jh
Certainly it is not the case. It occurs specifically when drinking tea. I can
spend a day with only my morning coffee.

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jonplackett
I did the same thing, giving up coffee, alcohol and also sugar for about 2
years. I expected to feel superhuman but the truth is I felt basically the
same, still often a bit tired on the morning - but I did get quite skinny.

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Ididntdothis
I always envy people who have these dramatic effects. I went vegetarian a few
years ago and I don’t feel any better or worse. Same when I take marijuana. I
feel a little heavy and dizzy but that’s it. Sometimes I wish I would find
that thing that totally changes my life like other people claim to have found.

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mirekrusin
I guess you can experiment, for me chelated magnesium and sometimes l-tyrosine
does the trick.

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kasperni
I hear you on magnesium, that thing is like a flip-switch on an overactive
brain if you get the right type of it.

What do you use l-tyrosine for?

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mirekrusin
I don’t know exactly why it works, may be related to vaping or something else,
but for days when I’m lazy-brain dead-not motivated taking l-tyrosine on empty
stomach seems to make me normal/productive again.

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kasperni
ahhh brain fog, cool I'm going to give it a try.

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ghego1
I also went without alcohol for 25 months and my expererience couldn't be more
different.

I never stopped going out for drinks. I always kept enjoying being with other
people, it has never been about the alcohol going out. When going out for
drinks, in the first couple of months I would simply order non alcoholic
beverages. After a while I realized that it was unnecessarily expensive and I
simply stopped ordering drinks. On this the author is right, this led to huge
savings. I just got out for the fun of being with other people. As the author
himself explains, the drinks are just an excuse to go out and do stuff. Unless
of course someone has a problem with alcohol.

I think that the only thing that I can really relate in the article is the
difficulty of explaining why I was not drinking. But even that I think is
something I did very differently from the author. After a few months in which
I tried to explain myself, which got the kind of arguments the author
mentions, I started saying that I just didn't like to drink. That's a pretty
short answer and mostly no one investigates that.

So in the end in my experience my social life was not affected in any negative
way by not drinking. To be honest, if anything, I think it increased my social
skills, as I was more focused and "awake" by not drinking. And this is a
experience that still has positive impacts on my personality. The only reason
I started to drink again is because I actually like the taste of most
alcoholic beverages (wine, beer etc), so I was missing a good glass of wine
with my dinner.

On the contrary, the experience of the author reminds me of someone that has
made alcohol a requirement of his/her social life. Which is looking
troublesome because it denotes a poor relationship with alcohol. The author
should focus on what's funny in going out without alcohol, which is what
matters. Alcohol should not be what makes going out funny.

I would suggest to everyone to go at least 1 year without alcohol while still
going out and having a very active social life in a context where everyone
else is drinking. This is a great way to better know yourself.

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tom_mellior
> I never stopped going out for drinks. I always kept enjoying being with
> other people, it has never been about the alcohol going out.

The author writes the same about coffee: "I found out that “Going for a
coffee” turned out to be more of a social activity than the actual craving for
coffee. Keep the social habit, replace coffee with something else."

They seem to be saying that they can't stand "gossip" in one setting (in a
bar) but do enjoy it in another (in a coffee place). Maybe the author's
acquaintances are really all terrible drunks, but maybe the author is just
contradicting themselves to justify to themselves that alcohol is bad.

I congratulate the author on stopping drinking, but article does wade a bit
too deep into "I'm virtuous, you are all phonies" territory.

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CMCDragonkai
Society has been duped in thinking they need coffee to stay awake. People need
good sleep, occasional naps and that's it.

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carlmr
I think most people know this, but naps aren't accepted in the workplace.

I function much better on 6h at night and nap after lunch than 8h at night,
but society forces me to stay awake after lunch. I've even thought about
looking for remote jobs, just to be able to have an afternoon nap.

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CMCDragonkai
As the boss of my own company, I've made naps acceptable.

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Semaphor
> Some might think that this is heavy alcoholism, but trust me when I say that
> having 1–2 drinks everyday in New York is more than normal.

Maybe not heavy, but that sounds still pretty bad. Just because that’s
possibly normal does not really make that better. I don’t even think I’d be
able to function properly with that much alcohol, and I’m not a light drinker.
That’s more than what I drank in University.

> But removing coffee from my diet helped me become more relaxed. Coffee
> always made me stressed out.

For those who have this problem but don’t want to skip coffee, I can recommend
looking into L-Theanine [0] supplements. It’s a part of tea (mainly in green
IIRC) and in combination with caffeine helps concentration and wakefulness
without producing coffee jitters.

[0]:
[https://examine.com/supplements/theanine/](https://examine.com/supplements/theanine/)

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zatkin
I don't drink alcohol, but I do drink two cups of coffee a day - one in the
morning, and a second after lunch. The first cup is to wake me up in the
morning and it makes me highly productive. The second is to avoid the food
coma.

If I ever feel stressed, I know I can go for a walk to exercise off the
coffee. But most times I'm not.

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wojcikstefan
This is the trap many people (including myself, for years) fall into... You
develop dependency on coffee and then you claim _it_ is what makes you focused
and productive. But if you never had a cup of coffee in your life (or if you
stop and let your body adjust), you'd be as focused and as productive without
ever feeling like you're missing it.

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zatkin
I drank no coffee up through university and my productivity was sound - I
ended up getting good grades. I started drinking coffee after I got a full-
time job.

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donmb
Problem is society exactly as the author describes. There is so much pressure
on having drinks when going out. This is due to people trying to suppress
their insecurity.

Start with yourself: If a sober person is in your round, help him by not let
other's in the group mob him. Do not say things like "ohhh why the fuck you
not drink?" \- just say "cool you don't drink, I respect that" and still do
conversations although you do have a drink yourself.

If your group does understand, that there are people who do not need a drink
every time, it will help yourself also to "survive" in that group so it
becomes more easy to go out sober.

Me myself find it very hard to not drink - but I like to drink and I like to
be slightly drunk every now and then. I know that and I live with it. Chances
are that some day this might change :) good luck everyone with whatever helps
you to feel better

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slimsag
There are a lot of non-alcoholic (and sometimes non-caffeinated) drinks you
can order at bars and restaurants, many people would not even know are non-
alcoholic - just ask the bartender.

If the people you are hanging out with are judging you for your life choices
then they are assholes and you should honestly call them out on it and
disassociate with them.

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paxys
Remove alcohol, caffeine and sugar though and your drink choices are slim to
none.

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llamataboot
That's why god invented tonic water with a lime

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inferiorhuman
Tonic has a ton of sugar.

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headmelted
I was like $1,000 a month on coffee!? Then I saw that it’s cocktails every
day.

“Some people may call that heavy drinking”. Ya think?

Also, here in Ireland, even we call $1,000 a month on alcohol pissing your
money up a wall.

It’s crass, but based on a large body of evidence from our history.

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newnewpdro
How does he know the sleep effects were due to the alcohol and not the
caffeine?

I rarely consume either, but when I do, caffeine is by far the most disruptive
to my sleep and will derail my routine for days.

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MaximumYComb
My experience is anecdotal but I drink both. I've found that once you're a
heavy caffeine drinker that you hardly notice it's effects on things like
sleep. Alcohol is different. 8 drinks before bed and I wake up tired, despite
my usual bedtime. I drink way more caffeine than I do alcohol, yet alcohol is
the only substance that has ever seemed disruptive.

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qalmakka
Yes, after a while your body gets addicted to caffeine and adjusts to the
amount you are ingesting, so you need to increase how much you're taking in
order to keep feeling the high you expect from coffee.

If you suddenly stopped assuming caffeine, you'll start suffering from
withdrawal symptoms such as headaches and drowsiness; this is because your
brain adenosine receptors are accustomed to a certain amount of caffeine
(which is itself an adenosine antagonist). Your brain receptors recalibrate
themselves after a while if you stop drinking coffee/tea, or if reduce your
intake of caffeine to a smaller amount.

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newnewpdro
Not sure why you're getting downvoted.

The withdrawal symptoms for caffeine are brutal in my experience. It's really
surprising every time I dabble with having an espresso a few times a week when
I'm in a cafe-frequenting mode. Even just one week of having a double espresso
every other day will leave me with 1-2 days of terrible headaches and nausea
beginning 1-2 days after completely stopping.

No other drug I've experienced so quickly establishes such miserable
withdrawal conditions. And I've been around the block in this neighborhood.

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jamisteven
"Assume that I have 2–3 cocktails every other day"

Ehhh what, sorry but my friends that have 2-3 every other day I would tell
them they have a problem. Is it some shock to the author that this is
unhealthy and expensive?

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ubercow13
Depending how strong the cocktails are, 2 cocktails every other day doesn't
seem to be much, if at all, over the NHS advice for regular drinking [1], for
example. Would you really call out your friend as having a 'problem' based on
that?

[1] [https://www.nhs.uk/news/food-and-diet/new-alcohol-advice-
iss...](https://www.nhs.uk/news/food-and-diet/new-alcohol-advice-issued/)

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Dabz
> > Some might think that this is heavy alcoholism, but trust me when I say
> that having 1–2 drinks everyday in New York is more than normal.

It is alcholism, maybe not heavy, but alcoholism nonetheless.

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exclusiv
I don't agree.

Drinking 1-2 cans of coke doesn't make you dependent on coke as an example.
You can simply enjoy coke even though you don't need it.

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wojcikstefan
If you feel upset/unhappy (even mildly) any day you can't have your 2 cokes,
that's a dependency.

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exclusiv
Perhaps, but that's my point with regard to the parents claim that 1-2 per day
is definitely alcoholism. It _may_ be for some people. Someone drinks 2 large
vodka drinks, they are alcoholic. 1-2 glasses of wine, probably not.

