

Ask HN: any light after quitting career at big software companies? - cloud_dev

I've been trying many years to be fulfilled at big companies. Had the opportunity of working in cloud computing orgs at Amazon, Google and Microsoft, among other companies, and came to realization that I cannot be happy in such environments for a number of reasons: 1. lack of autonomy, 2. being told what to do and how to do (particularly bad when these people don't know what they are talking about), 3. not being able to be proud of what I accomplished, 4. dealing with politics; among other reasons. I feel just like another cog in the machine and plan to quit my job at one of the big companies listed above next week.<p>Now I am trying to figure out what to do next. I've realized that the problem is not computer science - I find it extremely beautiful to see good engineering being applied, and love to learn new things and see how my experience over the years can be applied and valuable to the business. But I need an environment that nurtures creativity, where excellence is actually valued and engineers can exercise their creativity, being autonomous. I want to deliver a solution, and be able to decide how to tackle it, not being micromanaged and having my creativity killed as the manager thinks that another solution is more in line with his experience and taste.<p>Is there life after working for big companies? Is there any place where autonomy is actually possible and the engineer intrinsic motivation is not being killed by the environment? Just so you know, I had a short experience with a start-up and unfortunately that wasn't much different - actually the micro-management was quite worse than experienced at big companies, so that is why I am sort of hopeless at this point.<p>Is consulting or starting my own company the way to go? I am currently open to change to a completely different area and leaving computer science behind me at this point, if that's the best for me.<p>Does this resonate with anyone? Any thoughts, suggestions, or similar experiences are very much welcome and appreciated.
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abbasmehdi
If you can survive for a year or two without a salary then maybe you should
quit as a way to figure out what you want to do with your life. Get involved
in causes that inspire/move you. There is an old Persian saying: when the
student is ready, the teacher appears.

A friend of mine got burnt out from the health insurance industry after 7
years. He moved to India as a volunteer, saw lack of healthcare, and started a
micro health insurance fund for the poorest of the poor there. Last I talked
to him he told me that his org has made 6000 doctor visits possible (majority
for critical issues) for a class of people most of whom have never been to a
doctor in their whole life. People in the US are trying to copy his model for
the 60 million uninsured here. He says is happier and more fulfilled now than
he has ever been. I am trying to take his lead and trying to find causes that
I'd be happy to contribute towards (locally) even if it means it has to be
without any financial reward.

The beauty of our craft is that it does not discriminate, we can apply it to
any bad situation that we want to see improved. Finding the cause worth dying
for is the struggle.

~~~
cloud_dev
I will leave some money/shares on the table quitting now, but luckily I can
survive without salary for quite a while.

I think you're completely right about trying causes that inspire or move me,
otherwise we can live an entire life without having the impact that we once
dreamed of. It requires courage and a lot of hard work - especially for those
that do while still working.

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scas
I've had similar experiences over the years. I started out at a startup with
inexperienced founders, which resulted in micromanagement and eventually my
departure after a few years. I was then hired on at a couple traditional
server hosting companies that have been repositioning themselves as cloud
hosts. At one of the hosting companies, I did have some measure of autonomy
but politics and micromanagement were in full swing.

Most recently, I had worked at a BigCo that I left a few months ago. The
environment was soul-crushing and toxic. The experiences wore me out mentally
and put my health at risk, so I left.

I'm still trying to figure out the next step myself, whether it be leaving the
field for something else or starting my own company. For me, it has meant a
lot of introspection and lurking on sites like this.

~~~
cloud_dev
I am glad to hear you left, especially when you have a signal that your health
is at risk. Nothing is worth that, in my opinion. I even had a friend that got
to suicide because of work. And there are a lot of companies that do not
simply care much about the employee, especially when it comes to operational
load and on-call rotation.

In order to make the best decision, one must try to understand oneself. I've
been reading a book called "Finding Your Own North Star: Claiming the Life You
Were Meant To Live", which has been quite helpful in this regard. There are
some career coaches that seem to be very effective for some people as well.

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relaunched
I'm going to throw a couple of things out there. If I'm completely off the
mark, feel free to ignore.

Fulfilled - This is a tall order for any work environment. Have you ever been
professional fulfilled? Personally fulfilled? Both? For some people, me for
example, professional fulfillment is tied to my personal life in a way that if
I'm not professionally happy, i'm not personally happy. For lots of people,
it's the opposite.

The grass is always greener...which isn't to say that it's actually not. A
smaller company or startup will be different...that's all you'll know for
sure. You may gain autonomy and pride in your contribution, but find that the
overall lack of progress and general lack of certainty just as disheartening.
2 months into a project, the directive might be abandoned...it's just the way
it goes sometimes.

If you want to test the waters as a consultant or start your own consulting
business, take a ~60 hour job and a week of vacation. If it moves you, you'll
know.

Culture is important. But, it sounds like you are bumping into the harsh
reality that many companies throw culture out the window when it's not
convenient. That happens almost everywhere, unfortunately.

It sounds like you might be just about ready for shakeup. It sounds like you
have the credentials / experience to make a move and if it doesn't work out,
take a mulligan. That being said, if you aren't unhappy enough to quit
outright, it might not be that bad (but, clearly isn't that good).

Another approach that has worked in the past is a transfer. Maybe your current
project is too big, manager sucks, cross-functional team is composed to biz
guys that think all you have to do is toss a code monkey a banana once in a
while...maybe you can get on a more entrepreneurial team on, a nascent
project, a your current employer.

I hope it you find what you are looking for...it sux when someone beats the
life out of something you really love to do.

~~~
cloud_dev
Thanks a bunch, it is right on. On Monday I actually gave my notice, but there
have been lots of conversation with management trying to convince me to stay.
Next week I will make a final decision.

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gdulli
I left a large Silicon Valley company for some of the reasons you mentioned
and knew I shouldn't work anywhere like it again. It's just not a fit for me
the way it is for others.

Smaller companies have a more diverse range of cultures. Maybe you got unlucky
once, but it might not happen again. It's hard to know what the culture will
really be like based on interviews, but learn what's most important to you and
make a point of researching or asking about that as you interview. You are
interviewing them as well.

And there are also small companies out there that aren't startups.

~~~
cloud_dev
That is true. I've seen some people quite happy working at small companies
that did not have good experiences at big companies. Perhaps I just had a bad
experience.

As you said, I need to interview them and make very clear that I want to work
hard and contribute, but I need autonomy and no micro-management. Let's see if
I can find any company that works like that.

------
indigoviolet
Come talk to us at Facebook. We try very hard in our culture to avoid the bad
things you mention above. Send me a message (my contact information is on my
profile).

[http://www.glassdoor.com/Overview/Working-at-Facebook-
EI_IE4...](http://www.glassdoor.com/Overview/Working-at-Facebook-
EI_IE40772.11,19.htm)

~~~
cloud_dev
I considered that, but after experience at other big companies and each and
every one of them saying that these things don't happen there, Facebook would
need to be a big exception (and maybe it is, it just seems too good to be true
:-). Let me give some thought to that. Thanks!

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md1515
I can't say I understand the feeling as I haven't been yet battered by the
corporate machine.

My advice is to try and find something you can do by yourself that you will
enjoy. Obviously, it would be better/more profitable to stay within your
field, but who knows - lots of successful people change from field to field
and remain successful (see James Altucher who has had many career changes). I
would suggest you put some serious thought into what this special thing is,
though. Do not quit your job before you do.

Some people might tell you to quit immediately for your own health, but I
think putting some serious thought into your options will go a long way into
keeping you happy. Sure, you're working in some corporate gig, but you've got
some consulting business you're planning...something like that. Good luck,
whatever you decide.

~~~
cloud_dev
I think I've got to a point that I just can't take anymore. Ideally I would
find what to do before quitting a job, but at the same I think I will have a
better chance of trying out different things if I leave my job.

About consulting, that something that came to mind and it could be a good
option. Let's see what I end up doing. Thanks for the advice and bringing this
up.

