
I tried to keep my unborn child secret from Facebook and Google - imartin2k
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/the-internet-hates-secrets
======
neogodless
Before Firefox Multi-containers, Amazon decided my wife and I were pregnant.
I've shared the story on Hacker News before, so I won't go into too much
detail, but the short of it is - it decided (incorrectly) that we were
pregnant, and started sending weekly "you're pregnant, read our tips, buy
things" emails to me. As a couple with troubles conceiving... it was _not_
welcomed. It was salt on a wound. And thus far, I have found no recourse. I'm
uncomfortable that corporations can readily collect and analyze information
about us, misinterpret it at times, and attempt to influence our behaviors and
choices based on this. It's not a new problem - humans have done this before.
Now computers do it, and very large companies that do not care about "rounding
errors" are not really prepared to apologize or improve their systems to avoid
causing some people emotional pain or any other problem.

~~~
neaden
I'm reminded of a blog post about Facebook's "X years ago today" feature that
has shown people pictures of dead children or other relatives, burned out
houses, car accidents, and other memories that the algorithm chipperly
suggests they share to their timeline. A lack of consideration is definitely a
thing.

~~~
epochwolf
My iPhone did this to me. I’m sure people get suggested to share memories of
their abusive ex all the time. :(

~~~
golergka
When you change your marital status from married to divorce, Facebook offers
to hide your former spouse from your feed, and won't show her (him) in
memories either. So, while I like to bash on social networks as much as the
next guy, they are trying to be helpful with things like these.

~~~
landcoctos
just like black mirror

------
frereubu
This is an important issue, but this article seems almost entirely devoid of
content with some links to other articles. It's like a lazy 16-year-old was
asked to write an essay. You could sum it up by saying "I tried not to let my
unborn child's existence known to advertising networks, but it was hard,
particularly without alienating my friends and family." I wonder how many ad
impressions it will generate for Wired.

~~~
Topolomancer
That's a little bit unfortunate, as I think that the topic could be explored
much, much deeper. For example, are there any social considerations when it
comes to not sharing these details? Will you be ostracized or seen as weird by
your friends, will you maybe even trigger automated alarm systems because your
behaviour is seen as fraudulent, etc.

(at least the last part is alluded to, but it comes through yet another link;
if I want to follow many links, I go browse Wikipedia, not an article that
purports to be a long-form essay about an interesting topic)

~~~
wizardforhire
Off the cuff here, being seen as weird is a social construct. Making personal
desicions with confidence inspires confidence in others. If “friends” see your
actions as weird and you’ve made your decisions with thought and deliberation
then you are faced with the question, are these people really your friends? In
the case of privacy we share a situation where society is being normalized to
make decisions that is not in the best interest of individuals writ large but
instead favors the bottom line and profits of a few corporations that could
not care less if we live or die. Actions being seen as fraudulent is just an
enforcement mechanism to protect these motives. Opinions are changed one
individual at a time, but as opinions change so to does society. As someone
who is deeply appalled by the current state of affairs, I encourage anyone who
feels the same to stay strong. These corporate culprits of societal rot are
just one mass migration away from folding. It’s happened before and it will
happen again. We on hacker news are the ones leading the charge.

------
FuckOffNeemo
The only article part of the article I found ironic, is the site that the
writer used imploring me to disable ad-blocker so they can generate revenue...
on an article that tells me about all the reasons why targeted ads suck.

------
munk-a
> Opting out of tracking and targeting, it turns out, isn’t an option. There
> is no such thing as a purely transactional transaction. Every purchase I
> make and every website I visit is recorded, tracked and indelibly tagged to
> scores of profiles sold by data brokers I’ve never heard of to companies
> I’ve never heard of in an attempt to persuade me to spend £150 on a Chicco
> Next 2 Me Bedside Crib. Spoiler: I did.

And this is why advertisers are invasive. If you feed the trolls (or
advertisers in this case) they come back for more.

As an aside, it would be hilarious if this entire article was sponsored
content for that crib.

~~~
landcoctos
this is why i use cash whenever possible. most transactions should be one time
events

------
umeshunni
I tried to read the article, but Wired gave me this:
[https://imgur.com/GzFnA54](https://imgur.com/GzFnA54)

~~~
c22
I tried to look at your graphic, but imgur wont work without javascript
enabled. On the other hand, this wired article worked fine and I saw no ads.

~~~
Gaelan
It's a "please disable ad blocker" message

------
shpx
> we didn’t want to be stalked around the internet by adverts for breast pumps
> and baby carriers

Install an ad blocker.

[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-
origin/cjpa...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-
origin/cjpalhdlnbpafiamejdnhcphjbkeiagm?hl=en)

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
That alone is not enough. If you use Facebook, Twitter or Google, they track
your usage of the service and make inferences. Even if you turn that off or
don't use those services, advertisers who are also spying on you (for example,
Amazon knowing your purchase history) will _give them_ data on you. And so on.

------
ImaCake
>Let me just open up Tor so we can read through advice pages on the NHS
website. Signing up for classes about the trauma of childbirth? Hold on a
second while I setup a new email account on a private server so Google doesn’t
scan my inbox for keywords. Excited family members sending you questions on
Facebook Messenger? Ask them to immediately delete all those messages and
download Signal instead.

Wow. Just use Firefox and a $5/month email service. Where did this myth that
privacy protecting applications were difficult to use come from? Firefox is
just as easy as chrome, and Signal's only difficulty is getting other people
to use it, not the UI. I understand actually ensuring your data doesn't leak
is difficult, but the apps to use are certainly not difficult.

~~~
vinni2
I use Firefox, a very unpopular paid email service from Germany, pihole for
dns level ad blocking, ublock origin, DuckDuckGo as default search engine and
use TOR for any medically sensitive searches or embarrassing stuff... still
get targeted ads for things happening in my life which I thought I took enough
precautions to hide from the ad trackers.. there is simply no easy way

------
petilon
See also this story:

 _For all of the supposed liberating power of their digital devices, they
might as well be wearing ankle monitors._

 _Today’s students live their lives so publicly — through the technology we
provide them without training — that much simpler errors than mine earn them
the wrath of the entire internet._

[https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/09/opinion/sunday/dumb-
mista...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/09/opinion/sunday/dumb-mistakes-
college.html)

------
mileszim
For anyone still holding onto the belief they can break free of being tracked
and sold and still remain functional in modern life, I offer you a challenge:
For one month, do everything in your power to avoid being tracked. Take it as
far as you can.

A year ago I attempted this by seeing what exactly I would need to do just to
simply build my own cell phone, just to call, which did not allow any kind of
tracking. Every layer you step through, from components to software to the
telecom infrastructure itself has some finger in the pie. For the first time
that stoner-ism "it's the SYSTEM, man" began to take a concrete form, like
discovering some invisible forces just under the surface, governing our
behavior. That's when I pulled the plug for my own sanity.

How it is we not only accepted this, but allow an entire market to exist
buying and selling our personal lives (of which of course we ourselves do not
profit directly from), still astounds me.

Keeping your life private is no longer the default mode. It's now more like
going to the gym: it requires continuous drive and effort. Most don't have the
time or the resources to even think about personal privacy, let alone take
some kind of meaningful action.

------
devmunchies
I just finished reading Ted Kaczynski’s (the unabomber) book Technological
Slavery. Yeah he was a domestic terrorist who most likely hurt technological
reform more than helped it, but there were still a lot of good points related
to this post.

The more we rely on technology the more powerless and less free we become.

------
petilon
This is why we need the EU, and laws like GDPR and the Right to be Forgotten:

 _Google 's Eric Schmidt suggests that young people should change their name
upon reaching adulthood_
[https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/7951269/Young-...](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/7951269/Young-
will-have-to-change-names-to-escape-cyber-past-warns-Googles-Eric-
Schmidt.html)

 _Facebook 's Zuckerberg Says The Age of Privacy Is Over_
[https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/external/readwri...](https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/external/readwriteweb/2010/01/10/10readwriteweb-
facebooks-zuckerberg-says-the-age-of-privac-82963.html)

------
BeetleB
In pre-Internet days, people managed. You would go to stores and buy stuff.
Many did so with cash. If you wanted to learn about something, you'd buy a
book, go to the library, or subscribe to a magazine (that last one was likely
selling your information in those days).

Then came the Internet. Comparing the before and after, the only strong
benefit of the Internet is much better and cheaper access to information.
Unfortunately, the "cheaper" part means you end up sacrificing something.

I too would like not to be tracked on the Internet. But I'm not going to
forget that I did live a life before the Internet, and it was quite a
reasonable life. Moreover, that life is by no means obsolete in today's age.
You can get most of what you want in the article while still having the
Internet. Just don't try to live your whole life (knowledge + purchases)
online.

~~~
josefresco
>You would go to stores and buy stuff. Many did so with cash.

The article not only touches on purchases, but also facial recognition and the
trouble with keep your friends and family from revealing the child. Not as
simple as "buy stuff offline with cash".

~~~
BeetleB
>The article not only touches on purchases, but also facial recognition and
the trouble with keep your friends and family from revealing the child.

I'm aware of that. No rule that says you have to touch on the whole article
when commenting on the Internet :-)

As for friends and family: To be honest, that's always been a problem, even
before the Internet. My experience in both eras has been that people will leak
information to people you don't, and the only solution I know of is to
separate the world into people who can keep things to themselves, and those
who cannot.

Granted, it's a bit more complicated now. Even a "trusted" person could
message you, and the information leaks to the intermediaries.

------
gammateam
Commendable effort, some critiques about the inconvenience of relearning the
internet:

Yes opening TOR to run a search query is just as easy as having Chrome open
all the time too.

The non-google email that you also made over TOR should be set up already.

Regarding social networks, delete your account. Make a new one with no phone
number or a different phone number. This breaks the social graph. Honestly,
just don't add people back to it. Your immediate family knows how to contact
you, and if you add them back the whole social graph relinks you with them.
Download your data if you have attachment issues. You can avoid the awkward "I
don't have that network" conversation by actually having one, for some people
you meet. For others, use the other way to contact you.

If a Google Voice no longer works to signup to a social network, and you don't
want to pay for an additional line, then head on over to dark net marketplaces
because you can pay people to get the phone number confirmation codes for you
there. But of course, you can probably also find someone on Fiverr if someone
convinced you DNMs are "scary". DNM providers likely have better access to
mass phone numbers.

------
sjjshvuiajhz
The problem is not the web tracking, the problem is your obsession about it.
Stop worrying about it and your mental health will improve. Are you going to
raise your kid to be afraid of the shadows around every corner?

~~~
jancsika
> The problem is not the web tracking, the problem is your obsession about it.

The problem is the web tracking. And spending even a _tiny_ amount of energy
reviewing and installing Ublock Origin improves one's mental health in a way
that's obvious when observing the browsing patterns of somebody who doesn't
block ads.

If one wants to extend that obsession down to the source of web tracking and
attempt to hide one's behavior from the entire advertising industry, that
_may_ run the risk of having a detrimental effect on one's health. But a)
there is potentially new information which can be gleaned from trying, and b)
one can always scale back to and depend on an easy-to-install set of ad-
blocking solutions to filter the worst of it.

The only thing you'd save from not worrying at all about web tracking is a
small up-front cost of installing an ad-blocker. Those savings pales in
comparison to the distractions of being a constant subject to ads.

~~~
sjjshvuiajhz
I don’t have a problem with installing ad blockers. That’s not what the
article or my response to it is about at all.

