
'Virtual Lolita' Aims to Trap Chatroom Paedophiles - ytNumbers
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23268893
======
kmm
Despicable. I'm still appalled at how hysterical the reaction is to this
incredibly minor threat. Talking to a chatbot, it doesn't get more victimless
a crime. This is just plain entrapment for a harmless thoughtcrime.

I once read that paedophiles have on average a lower IQ, I wonder if that is
because they only catch the dumber ones. I know a chatbot wouldn't fool me.
(And don't misquote me on this, I'm not admitting I'm a paedophile, you know
what I mean.)

~~~
bmelton
I feel ridiculous having to claim this up front, but I am also not a
pedophile... however, I would very much like to find this chatbot and have a
very long conversation. In fact, I might even be inclined to write a reverse
chat bot that actually initiated conversations to this chat bot from a myriad
of IP addresses, just to illustrate the innocuousness of it all.

~~~
freejack
I refuse to make any disclaimer.

My question is, what is the crime if someone is "chatting" with a bot? Any
crime I could imagine would require a bad actor to actually engage with a
person - how is it a crime if there is no victim?

Maybe I'm just naive or missing some apparent point but this really mystifies
me.

~~~
mdda
Not to defend their approach, but...

The chatbot could be used to harmlessly engage with people in chatrooms, and
flag 'grooming behaviour'. Then, those conversations could be stepped into by
an actual person - saving having actual people monitoring the chatroom full
time. The police move in when the IRL meeting takes place, and the suspected
paedophile arrives full of evil intentions - at which point, the police have
plenty of profiling experience and the guy probably takes a plea.

So the chatbot is more about whittling down the suspicious participant list,
without soaking up police time.

------
GuiA
Google scholar page for the paper:
[http://scholar.google.com/citations?view_op=view_citation&hl...](http://scholar.google.com/citations?view_op=view_citation&hl=en&user=9ZMoj9IAAAAJ&sortby=pubdate&citation_for_view=9ZMoj9IAAAAJ:UebtZRa9Y70C)

Direct link to PDF:
[http://paginaspersonales.deusto.es/claorden/publications/201...](http://paginaspersonales.deusto.es/claorden/publications/2012/Laorden_2012_CISIS_Negobot.pdf)

The quality of the research, and that's my own opinion, leaves very much to be
desired (many fuzzy assumptions, a lot of hand waving & of the "and then,
magic happens" syndrome). This wasn't published at an ACM or IEEE conference,
which is typically a first warning sign.

Sadly, the BBC (and other major media outlets, but it's the 2nd time I observe
it with the BBC website this month) has a knack for taking academic papers
from a year ago (or more), and writing subpar articles about it.

~~~
furballmenace
Completely agree. Also the use of Google Translate is not going to be scalable
at all. Many of the premises are theoretical and the criteria used to
determine "level of disturbing content" is at best laughable.

Talking to Negobot would probably be the equivalent of this:
[http://gizmodo.com/bank-of-americas-twitter-account-is-
one-r...](http://gizmodo.com/bank-of-americas-twitter-account-is-one-really-
really-713634226)

------
unoti
Is it illegal in Spain to engage in lewd discussions with a computer program?

It's a cool sign of the times that such questions can even be asked somewhat
seriously and not just as a sci-fi future contemplation exercise.

~~~
BHSPitMonkey
That's an interesting question. I wonder if that could be a usable defense.
"What did I do wrong? I just thought I was talking to one of those bots, not a
real person!"

------
jcromartie
> posing as a 14-year-old girl to spot paedophiles

Something tells me they don't really know what "paedophile" means.

~~~
lquist
jcromartie means that adults attracted to 14 year olds are hebephiles
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebephilia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebephilia)),
not pedophiles.

~~~
ianterrell
Thank you for the extra info. I had no idea there were multiple denominated
chronophilia.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronophilia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronophilia)

------
mgkimsal
"But researchers admit that it does have limitations and will need to be
monitored. Although it is has broad conversational abilities, it is not yet
sophisticated enough to detect certain human traits like irony"

[http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/27/texas-teen-makes-
violent-j...](http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/27/texas-teen-makes-violent-joke-
during-video-game-is-jailed-for-months/)

Yeah, I don't think I want this program to be trying to entrap people then
turn the police on them.

------
bajsejohannes
Like many others are saying, this does sure look like entrapment.

I cannot recommend the movie Outing [1] enough! It a documentary following a
paedophile in Germany. Turns out there are _a lot_ of "non-practicing"
paedophiles that are recognizing that they shouldn't act on their desires, but
they still have those desires. I think they'd be very easy targets for
entrapment if someone approaches them like this.

[1]
[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2076292/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2076292/)

------
Zikes
Headlines of tomorrow: "Paedophile entrapment bot first in history to pass
Turing test"

Future AIs will have a predilection for Bieber and meeting with strangers.

~~~
noonespecial
Its funny but it really would make for a fabulous Stross-ian sci-fi novel.
What if a strong AI accidentally developed whos "prime directive" was to find
pedophiliac tendencies in people and legally entrap them? Give it lesser god-
like powers and you've got yourself a novel!

~~~
mietek
For a thoroughly thought-through take on a similar subject, check out
_Friendship is Optimal._

[http://www.fimfiction.net/story/62074/Friendship-is-
Optimal](http://www.fimfiction.net/story/62074/Friendship-is-Optimal)

"Hanna, the CEO of Hofvarpnir Studios, just won the contract to write the
official _My Little Pony_ MMO. Hanna has built an A.I. Princess Celestia and
given her one basic drive: to satisfy everybody's values through friendship
and ponies. Princess Celestia _will_ satisfy your values through friendship
and ponies, and it will be _completely_ consensual."

~~~
noonespecial
That was fabulous as far as fanfic goes. I'd call it almost on par with the
"Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality" fanfic by Eliezer Yudkowsky.

~~~
mietek
I'm glad you enjoyed. It is written by a LessWrongian, I believe. Also, it
doesn't feel quite right to call either of these stories fan-fiction, as the
word is usually correlated with mediocrity.

I thought _Friendship is Optimal_ , although quite obviously suboptimal,
wasn't _that_ bad of a FOOM. For a _much_ darker take on the subject, check
out _The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect._

Warning: Extreme triggers.

[http://localroger.com/prime-intellect/](http://localroger.com/prime-
intellect/)

"Lawrence had ordained that Prime Intellect could not, through inaction, allow
a human being to come to harm. But he had not realized how much harm his
super-intelligent creation could perceive, or what kind of action might be
necessary to prevent it.

Caroline has been pulled from her deathbed into a brave new immortal Paradise
where she can have anything she wants, except the sense that her life has
meaning.

Now these two souls are headed for a confrontation which will force them to
weigh matters of life and death before a machine that can remake — or destroy
— the entire Universe."

------
joshdotsmith
This seems really potentially dangerous, which the article hints at. Potential
for entrapment and the software can't detect irony. How could this possibly go
wrong?

~~~
pyre

      | For example, if the suspect does not appear to be
      | enticed into having a conversation, the software
      | can appear offended or get more insistent. 
    

This almost makes it sound like it was designed for entrapment. If someone
doesn't want to talk to the chatbot, it will try and _force_ a conversation?
Really?

------
samrift
"But researchers admit that it does have limitations and will need to be
monitored. Although it is has broad conversational abilities, it is not yet
sophisticated enough to detect certain human traits like irony"

Luckily people using informal internet chatrooms never make ironic statements,
so this software will be effective.

------
elchief
Oddly enough, the age of consent in Spain is 13.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe#Spain](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe#Spain)

~~~
haakon
The conventional wisdom is that adults who solicit minors online typically use
deceit (they have to, since minors have no interest in sex), and if you want
to deceive someone into having sex in Spain, your victim has to be at least 16
years old. (Source: your link) So the chatbot would still catch criminal
activity.

------
blutack
What happens if multiple bots are active in the same room?

Reminds me of the classic Monkey Dust sketch:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APG0rNedEwk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APG0rNedEwk)

------
speeder
The technology part is interesting...

But I think this paedophile hunting behavior around the world is going very
absurdly far, and causing more damage than fixing things.

If you want to get real problematic people, go get those Haliburton guys
kidnapping girls below 10 to sell in Africa (yes, that not only happened, it
is still happening, the US government decided that their service is more
worthy than the problems they create).

Chasing a few amount of people that chat to minors, or like lolicon, or like
even movies of real people, is better to catch the wrong people than to do
anything of good.

~~~
computer
You're going to have to add some references if you make claims that the US
government is contracting with people/children smugglers.

~~~
streptomycin
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DynCorp#1999_Bosnia_incident](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DynCorp#1999_Bosnia_incident)

[http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-
dyn/content/article/2008/08...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-
dyn/content/article/2008/08/27/AR2008082703237.html?wpisrc=newsletter)

------
miffin
"For example, if the suspect does not appear to be enticed into having a
conversation, the software can appear offended or get more insistent." This is
a bit concerning, this feature sounds like it may try and provoke people into
conversation to purposefully trap them, I really hope that's not what
happens...

------
njharman
"Trap" as in entrapment makes using this to arrest or expose people wrong.

Also, and this is debatable, talking with a chat "robot" in no way constitutes
the crime of pedophilia.

~~~
TallGuyShort
This. I don't recall the source or many details, but there was a guy who had
chatted with a law enforcement official posing underage in a chat room, but he
never showed up for their "date". They sent the SWAT team and news media to
his house and he shot himself. They made the point that lots of people suspend
belief to live a fantasy in a chatroom, knowing the other party is likely not
who they say they are. Was this any different? Certainly a moral gray area,
but not worth the guy's life for some sensationalism.

------
dobbsbob
lol entrapment bot. maybe they can also release terrorist bot that denounces
the west at set intervals and constantly private messages you "Blow up the
embassy y/n? ... pls hold for FBI operator"

------
drunkenmasta
Not too long ago, the same kind of witch-hunts were going on against
homosexuals (Alan Turing comes to mind). And now?

------
JEVLON
I can't believe so many people in these comments are apologists for
paedophiles (and related terms). Having a problem with the way it is policed
is okay. Accepting the act is not.

