
The issue with Bitcoin in commerce - dr_faustus
https://www.scipioerp.com/2018/12/04/the-issue-with-bitcoin-in-commerce/
======
InGodsName
Major problem i had with bitcoin is that no subscription management product
supports it.

Neither servicebot, nor killbill (the plugin doesn't work anymore)

So how can i add bitcoin in SaaS products?

There is no Opensource Subscription management product which supports most of
the gateways including bitcoin.

Customers request that they want to pay for our VPN SaaS through bitcoin but
we didn't find anything like chargify, recurly, chargebee supporting bitcoin.

When accepting bitcoin is soo difficult, no idea how it will grow.

I don't know why SaaS developers don't gangup and roll out Opensource self
hosted chargebee like subscription management product with ability to support
any gateway.

Then we'll not have to reinvent the wheel again and again while creating any
new SaaS products.

We can solve it once for all.

It seems everyone implements their own billing flow which is often difficult
for user to understand as every product uses it's own billing flow.

Why not a unified flow?

Some developers simply add stripe and are done with it.

I think this is leaving 20% on the money on the table which comes through
other payment methods like cryptos, wire transfer (manual), skrill, western
union, yandexpay, webmoney which is very popular in Soviet block countries.

~~~
pamonrails
@pierre from Kill Bill here.

Back in the days, we tried very hard to have a good native integration with
the blockchain for recurring payments (see the "Extension for BIP-0070 to
support recurring payments" thread on the bitcoin-dev list:
[https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-
dev/2014...](https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-
dev/2014-February/004295.html)). It didn't go anywhere unfortunately, so we
added support for the major providers at the time (Bitpay, Coinbase, ... see
[http://killbill.io/blog/coinbase-integration-
experiment/](http://killbill.io/blog/coinbase-integration-experiment/)).

In the end though, as the interest for Bitcoin as a currency decreased, none
of our users were interested to offer Bitcoin as a payment mechanism anymore.
We've since put this experiment on the backburner. Happy to revisit whenever
there is demand for it.

Regarding other non traditional payments methods (wire transfers, Boleto,
etc.), this is absolutely supported and heavily used outside of NA.

------
Mengkudulangsat
Many commercial solutions for Bitcoin payments seem to focus on e-commerce,
which I believe is addressing the wrong market. The most common medium for
companies in developing countries actually needing Bitcoin are paper (or .pdf)
invoices.

That being said, due to Bitcoin being rough around the edges, a workable paper
invoice needs the following components:-

\- The invoice amount in source currency.

\- The trigger & window when payment is expected. (e.g. T+1 day after bill of
lading presented)

\- The seller Bitcoin address, both in text and in QR-code form.

\- The reference exchange rate index; e.g. xe.com for VND:USD and Tradeblock
XBX for USD:BTC

\- Reminder to provide TxID after payment.

\- No. of confirmations for finality.

A scenario I usually share is the export of frozen chickens to Iran. While
food is supposedly exempted from US sanctions, banking friction make this
trade a nightmare. I'm hoping some entrepreneurs are willing to use Bitcoins
as a workaround and share their expirience.

~~~
aeternus
Electronic invoices are one of the coolest features of lightning network. They
handle the vast majority of these components with near-instant confirmation.

Acquiring sufficient inbound channels to receive large payments is still a
significant problem though.

------
slashx3
Interesting view on the matter. A bit harsh with the words, but it raises some
valid new points.

~~~
bitxbitxbitcoin
The words do come off harsh but they come from a passionate but frustrated
place. I think everything raised is a valid point that Bitcoin will eventually
self-improve on; however, the fact that accounting with Bitcoin is a nightmare
is also a function of regulations... which may be less likely to change.

I don't think that the added complexity of 2nd layer improvements will keep
Bitcoin from being a standard in the business world.

------
dragontamer
The article covers most of what I was going to say.

A big realization of mine the past few weeks however, is that with the
decreasing difficulty curve, the price of BTC will simply sink lower and
lower.

[https://www.coinwarz.com/difficulty-charts/bitcoin-
difficult...](https://www.coinwarz.com/difficulty-charts/bitcoin-difficulty-
chart)

Bitcoin, and other cryptocoins, have dropped their difficulty by about 30%
over the past few months, which means it is now 30% easier to mine BTC.
Unfortunately, that sets a new price floor for the miners. Miners are now
willing to sell BTC at 30% lower prices.

Assuming the previous average was ~6500 USD / BTC, the current price of ~3500
USD/BTC is still far lower than 30% difficulty. Suggesting that miners aren't
quite making money yet from the difficulty drop.

~~~
throwawaylolx
>A big realization of mine the past few weeks however, is that with the
decreasing difficulty curve, the price of BTC will simply sink lower and
lower.

The good news is that if you posses this kind of insight into such an
unpredictable stochastic process, then there are plenty of financial
instruments that allow you to make significant profits on your big
realisation.

~~~
dragontamer
I haven't made any "big" realization, because the logic I stated earlier
doesn't necessarily imply an upwards or downwards direction.

Look: the inverse is ALSO true with bitcoin. When the price rises, more miners
join, raising the difficulty, raising the price of bitcoin.

And as I stated earlier: when the price falls, miners leave, dropping the
difficulty, dropping the price further.

If there was an actual trade I was going to make, it'd be that BTC will remain
volatile. Except everyone already knows that fact, so there really isn't
anything novel I'm proposing. I'm simply noting that the momentum trade is
probably stronger in the BTC world than in typical financial instruments.

------
Tsubasachan
The people behind bitcoin don't read history books. Too busy with disrupting
the world and the Singularity I guess.

The State regulates and issues currency, always have always will.

~~~
throwawaylolx
>The State regulates and issues currency, _always have_ always will.

This is false, and "people behind Bitcoin" can teach you more about this:
[https://nakamotoinstitute.org/shelling-
out/](https://nakamotoinstitute.org/shelling-out/)

~~~
hakfoo
You need _something_ to regulate a currency. It's more than getting the math
right-- it's building a package and community that people trust.

We know the following work to at least a modest degree:

* A functional state that can manufacture demand by requiring its use in trade and/or tax payments (fiat) * Basing the currency on a natural resource with widely recognized scarcity (gold and silver) * Using an asset with actual utility as a currency (salt, grain) * Putting the currency in the hands of perceived-trustworthy adults (countries who replace their own currency with the USD)

We know some things don't work:

* A free market regulating on reputation and news alone (see pre-Civil War "wildcat banking") * A state with nothing to lose (see the Weimar Republic) * Blatantly speculative ventures packaged as a currency (like the Russian MMM scandal)

We're still deciding if some things work:

* Mathematical algorithms * Hard-coded economic policy decisions * Smart contracts

There's also an interesting trust relationship in currency.

With conventional currencies, the trust usually begins with the issuing
institution or materials, and that's leveraged into support for the currency.
If you believe Ottawa won't be sucked into a black hole tomorrow, you'll trust
a 10CAD note. If you expect gold to be desirable in 2025, you'll take a
sovereign for your Christmas bonus.

In the crypto world, the currency itself is the most trustworthy component,
and it's more necessary to build trust and credibility around its community
instead. (Noun)coin may be technically bulletproof, but if it's surrounded by
pump-and-dump traders, dark-web drug dealers, and people who blame the Federal
Reserve for their kidney stones, Grandma won't touch it.

