

Ask HN: Recruiter retracted offer - throwaway000

I was offered a job as a software engineer at a well-known company. Since I already had 2 other offers, their recruiter called and emailed me an offer contingent upon background and references check, and said the formal offer would follow; he also said I'd receive an email for the background check from the HR that night.<p>I'm in US on a visa expiring in &#60;45 days unless I get a job, so it was very crucial that I start the job ASAP. When I didn't receive the email that night, I emailed the recruiter after the weekend, asking him to check with on the email, and if there was any way I could start this month, but was told no. I called him that afternoon to check on the email again, and to see if there was any way I could start earlier, and started throwing in ideas like taking an unpaid leave after starting; he said that would be illegal (which I wasn't aware) and we agreed on a date in the next month.<p>Another day passed and I still hadn't received the email, and my references hadn't even been contacted. I emailed the recruiter and left a voicemail. The recruiter went another day without replying. Since we'd been communicating via Jobvite until then, I emailed him directly next day and asked to talk on the phone. He emailed me back that night, saying he had been busy traveling, but he'd call me the next day. When he failed to call me the next day, I sent him another email that night; he emailed me back the next day that he'll contact me once he gets back in the office after the weekend.<p>Now the recruiter sent me an email on an official letterhead stating that they've decided not to proceed "due to [my] actions subsequent to receiving [the] offer, including [my] request to become an employee before [I] would actually start working."<p>Am I in the wrong here? I admit I may have been a bit forward, but I'm not sure what else I was supposed to do, especially given my position. I'm left without a job and I don't know what to do. Any advice would be appreciated.
======
staunch
Probably what I'd write, for better or worse:

\--snip--

Hi Recruiter,

Sorry if I came across as a pest - I really didn't mean to. Starting early was
just an idea, I had no idea there might be legal issues with that. You can
imagine that being in a visa situation like I am can make these matters rather
urgent and stressful. I'd still really like to take the job, which I'm a great
fit for. Hopefully you can empathize with my situation and we can get this
thing done.

Let me know if you can still make this happen.

Thanks,

Throwaway

\--snip--

------
Peroni
If the recruiter was aware of your visa situation then I would argue that
they've been unnecessarily harsh. If they weren't aware then I agree with
their stance 100%.

If they were aware then I would suggest contacting them directly (preferably
over the phone) to explain your eagerness and highlight the fact that you were
completely oblivious to the legalities around starting and taking unpaid leave
immediately.

To be honest, if I was in the recruiters shoes, your persistance would have
concerned me and raised doubts over your motivation for accepting the job. Are
you accepting because you just need a job for your visa process or are you
accepting because you legitimately want to work here?

~~~
throwaway000
The fact that I had to decline 2 offers for this made me even more anxious
when they were unwilling to negotiate on the start date, especially since the
other companies wanted me to start working right away in the same month.
Honestly, I chose the company over the others because of its unique
development environment and culture; they did offer higher salary than the
others, but I would've chosen them even if they paid less.

------
drstewart
It's a tough situation, but you may have come on a bit strong. By my count,
you left 4 emails, once voice-mail, and had one conversation by phone in the
span of less than 4 business days.

At this point, I don't think the relationship with that company is
salvageable. I would try to move on. I assume you already turned down the
other job offers? Depending on how you did it, you couldn't lose anything by
emailing them again and letting them know you're still open to any
opportunities that may be available.

~~~
throwaway000
How much is too much when emailing the recruiters? TBH I wouldn't have emailed
him if he hadn't assured me that I'd receive the email that night; if he said
it would take a week, I would've waited a week before emailing him again. What
am I supposed to do when a recruiter isn't being punctual?

~~~
drstewart
Personally, I would consider the minimum between contact times to be a full
business day, but in reality I'd usually wait 3-5 days. That said, I have
never been in your position where I was short on time and options, so I would
probably have done something similar if I were you.

------
eshvk
I am really sorry about your situation but I definitely feel that you probably
came off too strong. Also, unfortunately, when a person tells you to your face
that something is illegal, they probably also suspect that you know that that
something was illegal and were hoping that it would fly past them. I feel like
there possibly was a communication issue but the only options you have are
relaxing and talking to the recruiter again or trying to take up one of your
other offers.

P.S: Advice for the future: Lighten up. If you are on an H-1B and you get
fired, you have to find a job immediately in theory and practically within a
time span of 15 days or so. While you will find some people sympathetic to
your problem, empathy comes from shared experiences and sometimes people are
just too involved in their own lives to feel for your problems.

------
thifm
Skip this one and mail the other offer that you probably refused, tell the
truth and be sorry for your mistake. Also tell them that you really want to
work for them.

Telling the truth have always got me into stuff I wouldn't otherwise. That
will differentiate you from the others and I truly believe that you will get a
job.

Don't run after the recruiter again, he doesn't give a shit and probably hired
someone else and probably don't know how it's the feeling of getting kicked
out of a country. He's too busy with his own shit to care.

------
shail
hey throwaway,

I was in a similar situation sometime ago. Fortunately or not, I got a job
eventually. But I am surprised that you being worried about your visa was seen
as such a pesty behavior (actually its not and I am not going to explain why
either, people in such a situation would know well).

The problem here is with the system. H1-Bs losing job should be given some
extra time to search for a good job otherwise you would end up joining for the
sake of joining.

Another thing, even if you have to go back to your origin country, your H1B
visa is still usable. You just need to get a job offer. Infact while you are
out of US, that time period is also not counted towards your H1B time left.

One last thing, go to a immigration lawyer (generally they charge $100 per
hour) and discuss with them, it will give you the most authentic information
about how to go around this situation.

Worst case, go back to your origin country and do a startup ;).

------
Mz
I think part of your mistake was in declining two other offers. I don't see
where you have explained why you did that, knowing you had a visa issue. You
created a situation where you were desperate. It did not have to be so.
Without knowing all the particulars, I will suggest that you should have
emailed them prior to declining the other offers and said "I need a firm start
date and formal/official hire letter by X time (say 48 hours). If that is not
possible, due to my visa situation, I will have no choice but to accept one of
these other offers."

If staying in the U.S. was the most important thing, you should have made sure
your choices aligned with that. If getting a particular "dream" job was more
critical and you were willing to gamble with being deported if it fell
through, that gamble is on you if it does not work out. If there is some other
reason you made this unfortunate series of choices, you need to use this as a
learning opportunity. (I am guessing you felt some sense of loyalty to them
though you did not have a formal offer and then felt they "owed" you loyalty
in return for the personal sacrifice you made out of loyalty to them. If so,
it was a misplaced and unrealistic sentiment.)

I will suggest you take some of the other advice being offered on how to try
to salvage the situation and also pick up a couple of books on negotiating.
"Getting to yes" and "The mind and heart of the negotiator" are both good. The
first is a quick read, so you might want to start there if you haven't seen it
before as it might help you now, with your current situation. The second is
meatier and more of a long term investment.

Best of luck.

