

How the secret police tracked my childhood - ghosh
http://m.bbc.com/news/magazine-26838177?ocid=socialflow_twitter

======
hippich
Modern Belarus (well, it was in 2006 - 2008.) Me and some of my friends and
their friends get together to organize some opposition performances or
participation in national opposition events. As well as distributing printed
gazette. No any kind of extremism or terrorism or whatever "-ism". I was
probably the oldest one back then, around 22 yrs, the rest guys and gals were
18-20 yrs. All are students either at community college or getting their
bachelors.

I was stopped randomly in car traffic because my car was "reported stolen"
just to get every single piece of the car out trying to find "illegal" printed
materials. One of these guys in our team also snitched for local police (so
they recruited someone, i still don't know whom.) They tapped my cell phone
and were able to meet us at place which was mentioned over one single
cellphone talk...

My very small business suddenly became in focus of various state agencies,
like IRS, fire department, etc. Each was able to find something to fine me
for. I closed it.

It got to the point where my mom had "interview" with KGB where they openly
told, that if she can't influence my behavior, probably I will never get my
masters degree, my sister will never get into college, my mom will likely
loose her job.

At some point I was "invited" to talk with local police chef about my
"disturbances". At that time I already worked out a way to get out from
Belarus for good and told about it to this police guy. He was very satisfied
with this response from what I could see...

This was happening 6 years ago and from what I hear, still does. At least they
did not prison and torture me, although it is probably more because I never
cause too much trouble for them and was dismissed as not very important person
to deal with.

~~~
karuneshkaushal
Are your family fine and with you? Do you get to meet/call/email these friends
now?

~~~
hippich
Once I moved out - everything is back to normal for my rest of family. They
sometimes call my family to check if I am back, but getting "no" answer each
time.

Yeah, with some of these friends I keep in touch.

So it played out well for me and my family. But definitely not for the people
of Belarus.

~~~
Fuxy
Something similar but a little toned down still happens in Romania too.

For instance if you ruffle the wrong feathers your business may get "surprise
inspections" from every government agency known to man.

And guess what they will always find a reason to fine your.

------
yiedyie
I am a Romanian and I lived through all three systems. Why I say three: I
lived 10 years through the worst period of communism, 10 through the savage
transition and more than 10 through the crony capitalism.

And although I pay a lot for not leaving with all the waves of brain drain, it
deserves all I pay to experience this, all three systems are so similar, the
way they sell themselves is different.

At least they had the chance to survey those files and learn from them.
Imagine us survey our files at NSA, GCHQ or any other services that gets its
targets from linkedin. It will never happen.

~~~
tinbad
Because in your country, just like in mine (Russia) it's not about the system,
but the people. We don't know how to have a democracy, we have no idea how to
be decent human beings, we do not how to deal with power, we do not know how
to deal with money. We can change system as much as we want, we cannot change
ourselves. This is the depressing reality of our countries.

~~~
brc
You have a point. 'Western' liberalism has its roots in the Magna Carta of
England, sparking the idea that the individuals have rights over the the
state. This tradition, coupled with the enlightenment and the idea of liberal
democracies has a very long history in Britain, and bequeathed to the US and
other places around the world. It's not easy to just adopt these practices
wholesale without understanding the fundamental concepts from which they
spring.

I think you should have hope for your people and your countries - these ideas
are contagious and we live in a world of instant communication and instant
spread of ideas. Each generation hence will work towards improvement as long
as they continue the fight against oppressive authoritarian socialist states
re-emerging.

~~~
tinbad
I had hope until our president invaded our neighbor. But I agree, things like
more or less free communication, better educated population and politicians
that are at least held accountable by their western counterparts and the rise
of the global economy will most likely improve things for the better rather
than worsen the situation.

Your analysis is spot on though as a lot of our 'misery' is engrained in our
culture and that simply takes more/longer to change than merely switching
government.

------
cobrausn
"In a refugee centre in Rome we had been taught that Americans, when they ask
"How are you?" don't really expect an answer"

Still true. I responded to someone's 'How are you?' yesterday with an actual
status report, and they were taken aback.

~~~
Fuxy
I always respond with an actual status report.

If you're not interested then stop pretending to care.

Plus getting people off balance is always fun.

~~~
lostlogin
I work in a hospital. I ask every patient how they are today and 99% say
"fine" or "good". The odd one that doesn't and says something like "I'm awful,
that's why I'm here" is always interesting to chat to. I suspect that the
majority of what we say is completely scripted and as such is startling when
someone chucks a spanner into the works.

------
bumbledraven
_They bought two typewriters, one of which they did not register with the
police..._

Evil regimes hate anonymous communication.

 _My father was sentenced to 11 years at the harshest prison of all, Aiud, for
"fraudulent crossing of the border, punishable with art. 267 of the penal
code"._

Evil regimes love to make it a crime to try to leave the living hell they have
created. And look how official-sounding the law is. People who uncritically
accept the government's position will think, "Well, the man did something
fraudulent, after all... surely he deserves _some_ punishment."

------
draugadrotten
Will we ever get to read the files that the NSA, GCHQ and the CIA are keeping
on us today?

~~~
tinfoilman
Only if you attempt to rise above your station peasant; Otherwise it will stay
in the store room

~~~
parimm
Does a freedom of information request give you the data that the NSA collects
on you?

~~~
kej
Some people tried this when the first Snowden leaks came out, and were
promptly shut down with a response that revealing what information they had on
that individual would indirectly reveal what information they had on everyone,
thereby threatening national security.

~~~
a3n
> thereby threatening national security.

A couple words missing:

... thereby threatening _the_ national security _agency_.

------
willvarfar
The security services of the eastern bloc were terribly inefficient; just
imagine how effective they could be today!

~~~
qwerta
The funny part is there are more police-men now, then during communism.

~~~
Fuxy
With so many informants why would you need police men.

Statistically every 10th person you met at that time was most likely as
intelligence service informant.

------
brc
What surprises me with all this detailed record keeping is the sheer cost of
all this -manual- security apparatus. Sure, not every resident was a
'dissident' to be monitored, but it sounds like this family had a team of ten
people working their case, round the clock.

I suppose a lot of the informants and plants were not paid, but forced to
participate through threats, but it still seems like a staggering amount of
organization at incredible cost.

~~~
ScottBurson
Yes, and the interesting thing about _that_ is how few dissidents it would
have taken to completely overwhelm their ability to keep an eye on them.

------
novalis78
Sounds awfully familiar - my dad's story and his experience with the GDR's
police state and socialist totalitarianism was quite similar. It's really a
chilling account and makes you appreciate every tiny bit of freedom.

------
softatlas
You need to understand the scope of surveillance, its primitive basis:

    
    
        Magical Combat should be differentiated from psychic attack,
        with which a large proportion of 'fringe' occultists concern themselves 
        with, and is largely a product of self-delusion and varying degrees of 
        megalomania. True magical combat has its own rules and boundaries, 
        which are known to the skilled, while the trainee must quickly learn 
        them if trauma is to be avoided. Caught up in a situation which s/he 
        finds incomprehensible and alien, the trainee only knows confusion 
        and terror. Stripped of the smug self-assurance of "it can't happen to 
        me" s/he learns to perceive the environment with clarity, to give attention 
        to the rhythms and pulses of the world. Truly, Death is a great teacher. 
        If you can reach forwards and see the moment of your 'death', then that 
        moment will give you a glimpse of your potential.[0]
    

Look at this from a naturalistic framework. Jesus, for instance, may have
simply been a very eccentric man who behaved linguistically and personally in
ways that were revolutionary. He probably induced too many magic mushrooms, or
some atypical neurological condition set him extremely intuitively in line
with a mystical tradition — nevertheless, these are historical implementation
details of _this_ Universe. Not uniquely _interesting_ either way you describe
it.

Now imagine that these features of a society become more widespread — where
you have {J1, J2, J3, ...}, then imposters, {I1, I2, I3, ...}, and then of
course randoms, {R1, R2, R3, ...}. This is an oversimplified model, but it
captures the problem well enough.

Surveillance becomes a psychological management strategy that naturally
emerges given the task of ruling out true adepts (altruistics) and
delusionists (potentials who cannot manage their own psychic powers).

"Psychic powers" does not amount to some belief in the supernatural. If I
mention the word "chair", this will not sit with you as mental residue
(surely, contextual and relational analysis apply, but on the whole it will
not) — but if you take recourse to JL Austin's "How to Do Things With Words" —
you will certainly need to shake off words like "preapopstaticontinentalism".
The first point is that a speaker has produced the word, then it comes that
decision procedure of whether or not it has literal meaning. The brain _has to
do work_ — which is the basis of "psychic forces" (reducible to behaviors of
neurological substrata).

—

[0]:
[http://www.chaosmatrix.org/library/chaos/texts/apikindx.html](http://www.chaosmatrix.org/library/chaos/texts/apikindx.html)

~~~
logfromblammo
I was confused, until I realized that the parent post itself was a form of
psychic attack. You are supposed to be confused by it.

Also, I erect a Tower of Iron Will around the party. (rolls d20)

~~~
cobrausn
I hope you spent some extra power points on that, because PR 19 is not enough
here. So confused.

------
ilbe
I hope that more people who believe in a "new collaborative economy" for
America come across stories like this.

~~~
dredmorbius
???

~~~
ilbe
Well, like in this article [1] on the front page yesterday, there's a
sentiment that individual rights and private property per capitalism should
give way to something more "collaborative." Only "collaborative" is not new,
it stinks of failed historical experiments and the exact kind of repression
described in this article in Romania.

[1]
[http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/31/capital...](http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/31/capitalism-
age-of-free-internet-of-things-economic-shift)

~~~
dredmorbius
Connecting those two stories is a real stretch. Sorry.

------
stefantalpalaru
It still amazes me that the US accepted political refugees from the eastern
bloc. Their involvement in Romania was extremely thin. From what I can tell it
was just Voice of America propaganda[1] and the unfounded rumor that american
saviors are coming any day now.

[1]:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_of_America#Law](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_of_America#Law)

