
Yes, You Should Walk Your Cat - veganjay
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/05/opinion/walk-cat-leash.html
======
alchemism
I live in a urban area with a freight train line running along the back of the
house, apart from any roadways or people. Trains run a few times a day, and
are slow and massive.

I take my three cats for an unleashed walk along the tracks a short way. They
instinctively form a hunting party around me as we walk; they treat me like
the platoon commander or some such. One is the scout, the senior maintains
discipline, etc.

At the first sign of a distant train, they inform me, and we go back to the
yard and watch the train pass. They must consider them some kind of mighty,
blind worms.

It is not quite the same as a leash-walk through the forest, but I feel very
lucky to have a little pocket for the cats to reveal their outdoor
personalities in this way.

~~~
bambax
Excellent.

I've "had" a cat for 10 years but it's completely free (hence the quotes: I
don't feel I own it at all). It comes in and out of the house at will, sleeps
in the house during the day and does things outside during the night (but
sometimes it also does the opposite, sleeps at night and wanders during the
day).

I keep food for the cat inside the house, but no litter box; it does its thing
outside -- not sure where: not in our garden.

There are other cats in the neighborhood, also walking free. There has never
been a cat hit by a car.

It must be wonderful to be able to herd cats! Ours kind of responds to voice
commands when it feels like it (it seems to understand "no!" mostly) and is
able to make itself understood when food is missing, but not much else.

~~~
tw04
I'm by no means a tree hugger, but seriously? "Outdoor" cats, whether feral or
otherwise are absolutely decimating birds and small mammals.

Of all the low hanging fruit on the "stop destroying the planet for no
reason", keeping your cats inside or on a leash requires basically 0 effort.

[https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/moral-cost-
of-...](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/moral-cost-of-
cats-180960505/)

~~~
uf
Sorry, but no: Don't keep cats indoors or on a leash.

Cats are predators. And they need freedom. If you're concerned for birds et
al. don't get a cat.

Don't be cruel to cats to satisfy your need for a pet by forcing your view of
how nature should work onto them.

~~~
boogiewoogie
Cats are domesticated. They made the indoor outdoor decision a long time ago.

~~~
bambax
My cat lives more than 50% of its time outside the house. It also can sit for
hours on a window sill.

------
bredren
I've been walking my 1.5 y/o cat on a leash since he was about six months old.

I walk him just about every morning. I can't sit down to program until he's
had his time outside, or he'll meow incessantly for it.

Walking a cat is much like she describes. They don't walk at all like dogs,
but rather sort of zig zagging at what is interesting at that moment. There
are certain leashes that work better than others.

I see in this thread a lot of people that "tried it" and the cat didn't like
it. There is a lot of build up to walking a cat outside, that starts with just
having the harness around. There are guides on how to do it, but you don't
just throw a leash on the cat and see how it goes, then give up.

I posted some photos [1] of my cat on his walks, including one showing him
climbing a tree while on his leash. It shows a bit how much fun they can have
outside.

[1] [https://imgur.com/a/EdwhS52](https://imgur.com/a/EdwhS52)

~~~
lurkaround
Your cat should totally take up modeling.

------
eigenstuff
My cat is indoors only and made a couple escape attempts that were a little
traumatizing for me (helicopter cat mom here), so while I considered getting
him a leash once, I ultimately decided against it because I was afraid it'd
make him a little more comfortable with the outside world and might emboldened
him to make more escape attempts in the future. Not happening in a rural place
where there's coyotes, oh hell no.

So instead of walks, we play catch. I wad up paper scraps and throw them and
he'll leap into the air to catch them with his paws or swat them away. His
ability to catch is honestly amazing to me, he gets it the vast majority of
the time, and sometimes he'll leap a good 3 feet in the air, it's super
impressive. It's also extremely entertaining! I have a lot of fun with "cat
baseball practice", and I think the reason he's so responsive to paper wads is
because those were the only cat toys I had for him as a kitten, so every time
he hears the sound of paper crumpling he perks up and comes running.

He also loves diving into 12 pack cardboard boxes with the ends ripped off to
make them into a tube. My living room floor is constantly covered in trash cat
toys but I love it.

~~~
Regardsyjc
My mom taught her cat to fetch with thin plastic rings the size of bracelets.
She'd sort of chuck them like a mini Frisbee and her cat would swipe them out
of the air like a pro athlete. She used to get her cat toys but they had a
tendency of mysteriously disappearing forever.

~~~
krallja
They are all under the refrigerator. Guaranteed to find them, along with milk
jug rings, hair ties, and other circles.

------
tmikaeld
We tried this with a cat we had several years back. He had been an indoors cat
his whole life. After a few very successful outdoor walks, he would sit at the
door screaming until we let him out again and he didn't stop at night
either... It became so bad that we had to place him at a new home at a farm
where he can be outside as much as he wants. It's a better life for him for
sure, even if we do miss him a lot it would be selfish to rob him of that
desire for the outdoors.

~~~
astral303
I’m so sorry for you and so happy for your cat! Good on you

~~~
tmikaeld
Thanks, I'm alright. I'm just happy that he's happy! :-)

------
reaperducer
I had a cat who would walk on a leash. I had another one that liked going for
"walks" where he would perch on my shoulder while I walked, like a pirate's
parrot.

My current cats aren't walkers. One hates the leash, and the other hates the
mere idea of "outside."

------
Waterluvian
I think one of the easier ways to do right by your cats is to always have two
or more. When we got Gentle Ben, Max Power suddenly reverse-aged by like five
years.

~~~
davidgould
This. A lot of the reason people think cats are aloof or un-social is because
they have only known solitary cats, who like people in solitary situations,
are likely to be depressed and have other issues.

I've had a number of cats over the years, but the best experience for me and
for the cats has been with pairs from the same litter or who grow up together.
It makes a huge difference when they have company.

~~~
bradknowles
Some cats do better with a companion, some are much happier when they are
“only cats”.

You have to know your cat well enough to know which is right for them.

~~~
leetcrew
how do you figure this out if your cat has never met another cat since being a
kitten at the shelter? I've considered having him meet a friend's cat, but I
would imagine it takes a few weeks to really judge whether they're happier
together.

~~~
davidgould
It depends, but if your cat is young and the cat you introduce is a kitten,
and your cat is demanding a lot of play time from you, chances are a second
cat will work. If your cat is old and cranky, not so much. It will definitely
take a couple weeks of contact for them to work it out. Even if they don't get
along particularly well, it still might be a net win.

------
krackers
I used to see my neighbor walking his cat on a leash every morning. It was
always an amusing sight to behold, but the cat seemed alright with it. I think
the practicality of it varies from individual cat to cat though.

------
notatcomputer68
Grew up with an outdoor cat in a suburb with backyard. Would let her in when
she wanted and out when she wanted.

She would occasionally follow us on a walk without any invitation or leash. We
were a little surprised "Do cats do that?" I think first time we tried to shoo
her back but then we realized it was fine and just let her come with us.

Worst that happened was one time a dog scared her up into a tree but she came
down eventually.

A neighboring family were not so lucky. Theirs kept getting run over by cars
(Not because of walks just because of being outside).

------
jerrysievert
I’ve enjoyed the company of cats most of my life, and have had a few that
really enjoyed being outside with me:

One loved to perch on my shoulder and go everywhere with me.

Another (not strictly mine, he came with a long-term relationship) would bring
his harness to me for walks.

My current loves to look out the windows, but will not go outside on her own.
Instead, she has a backpack that she loves to travel in, and is extremely
happy to go for “walks”. She’s been the delight of the local pub, and gets
jealous if I leave without her.

I am still wary to leave cats on their own outside, mostly due to health of
them and the local wildlife population, but am happy to facilitate outside
interaction.

------
whiddershins
A lot of people here are talking about how cats that go outside don’t live as
long.

That may be true for the median but growing up my grandmother had a cat on her
farm that went outside whenever it pleased.

It lived to be 21 years old.

It used to be normal to let both cats and dogs run free around the
neighborhood. I understand why people don’t want to do that anymore, but it’s
fascinating how quickly our culture has forgotten what used to be completely
normal.

~~~
michaelmrose
Anecdotes aren't as useful as data for making real decisions. Average lifespan
of an indoor cat is 15 years average lifespan of an outdoor cat is 5. This is
like you dying in your 20s.

~~~
codedokode
Isn't 5 years for a homeless cat? I doubt that a cat that has a home and food
would live so little.

~~~
michaelmrose
Have you owned outdoor roaming cats? It's not pretty. Some areas are worse
than others.

I had one that accidentally got out one night and got killed by a coyote.

~~~
codedokode
Ok, I got it. We just don't have such animals here, and volwes, who could
catch a cat, are rare.

------
cozuya
Hey a relative article. The wife and I have been walking both of our cats on
leashes daily for 10 years. They love it, and importantly, it fulfills them -
they sleep better, they are happier, they have less anxiety. Warning though:
once you start, every day they will be demanding it.

------
AlexCoventry
First the goat link, now this. Is HN shifting away from its technology focus?
CRISPR is great, but I don't think we're ready to talk about reimplementing
lisp on top of a mammalian genome. :)

~~~
exodust
I'm still waiting for GPS trackers to get small enough for cats to wear
comfortably on their collars. It would be fun making an app that did
interesting things with that data.

I'd be more curious to look at my cat's "fitbit" data than my own. A lot of
cat owners would love to check on their cat's roaming data.

There, a little tech for you without straying too far from cats, pardon pun.

~~~
simplyaccont
[https://www.whistle.com/](https://www.whistle.com/)

~~~
exodust
Only one cat image on that page and he doesn't look pleased about his collar
to be honest. Cats need their agility unobstructed by an anchor around their
neck. I'm still waiting for smaller tags.

[https://www.whistle.com/images/whistle3/testimonials/tomsell...](https://www.whistle.com/images/whistle3/testimonials/tomselleck.png)

~~~
simplyaccont
Cats in general do not look pleased most of the time. I have this tracker on
my cat and two dogs. After a couple of days cat got used to collar, as he
never had one before. Tag itself doesn't seem to disturb him, unlike, for
example absence of 24/7 food supply and presence dogs that want to play with
him.

------
henripro
Tried this once with my old childhood cat. She hated it, and would wiggle out
of the collar. What she would do is follow us around on walks in our suburban
neighborhood leash free. She would usually stay a house or two behind us and
run from hedge to hedge.

We were worried that she would follow me all the way to school, when I started
walking there, but we tested this, and she would refuse to cross a big street
on the way.

------
ianai
I had the good fortune to live with the same cat from when I was 11-30. He was
an indoor cat for the first large chunk of his life. In his waning years we
escorted him into the back yard for short visits. He loved it, but at the
slightest sign of “bigger creatures” or anything spooky to him he’d book it
indoors.

------
EamonnMR
Our cat was indoor/outdoor that we would keep in at night due to a (justified)
fear of larger predators. He lived a very long and healthy life and I
definitely attribute that to him spending many of his waking hours outside
engaged in hunting and patrolling behavior. I'm not sure that a leeshed walk
would be a good substitute though, since a patrolling cat wants to be able to
start hunting a rodent or fleeing danger at a moment's notice, and I suspect
that some of the exercise is in sprinting, running up trees, and pouncing on
prey. In my cat's later years he lost the boldness to stalk our entire yard by
himself, but would enjoy it if we walked out there with him so he could smell
everything without fear. The benefit of the walk is probably keeping the cat
mentally active rather than physically.

~~~
e40
I came home from a trip one day and there was a beautiful cat sitting in my
driveway. He was super friendly and chatty. It was getting cold, so we let him
sleep just inside the front door on a towel. In the morning he would wait to
be let out.

Before he arrived we had a problem with mice and rats. He immediately went to
work cleaning up the area, and leaving us tributes on the front porch. When we
didn't take them, he would finish them off. He only came in at night, and
loved being outside.

He did get into it with a raccoon (we assume). He had a tooth imbedded near
his tail. Had to have minor surgery and wear a cone and stay inside for 3
weeks. I caught this while he was using the litter in front of the house:
[https://i.redd.it/i8gwk5nod2321.png](https://i.redd.it/i8gwk5nod2321.png)

I agree with others that outdoor cats can live a shortened life. He was with
us for 6 years and was probably a few years old when he arrived.

If your cat likes the leash and walking, it will be a treat. I think lots of
cats might not like it.

------
beezle
Adding to the many anecdotes here.. I had an orange tabby growing up in a
quiet suburban neighborhood. Our property abutted a golf course. The cat was
mostly an outdoor cat, coming and going as weather and food swayed it. Quite
the hunter of snakes/squirrel/rabbit and birds, she was regularly dive bombed
by blue jays when crossing the golf course.

We were also a dog family and the cat followed on our walks, golf course
during the day and around the block at night. Quite a few times she
'protected' the dog from other cats on the nightly walk. I always found it a
bit strange that she did this but I guess it is not all that uncommon to
follow the family.

------
exabrial
I put a harness on my rescue every day before feeding him for the first few
months so he's totally fine with it as an adult.

The problem when going outdoors is he just squats in the grass and meows; very
happy to go back inside.

~~~
mathewsanders
I adopted a one year old stray cat and after a few indoor attempts he seeemed
to be okay wearing a harness but trying to get him to go outside was
impossible. He REALLY prefers to be inside.

I do have a small 15x15ft balcony with some plants and overlooks some trees.
When it’s warm I keep a window open for him to go out and he definitely likes
watching the birds and the bees that come by, but apart from that he seems to
prefer being inside.

------
08-15
> cats are a blight on ecosystems, killing countless [...] small mammals

They do. Cats kill _mice_. And while domestic cats may have some difficulty
killing rats, they definitely make life uncomfortable for rats. That's why the
Egyptians decided 6000 years ago that cats are sacred.

Killing "small animals" such as mice and rats is a good thing. Ever heard
about the Black Death? It was spread by rats (their fleas, to be precise).
Yes, if we somehow managed to drive mice and rats to extinction, that would
"reduce biodiversity", but it would be _a good thing_.

~~~
willnewman
It's likely they're referring to the effect outdoor cats have on bird
populations. They're credited with the the extinction of 63 species:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5056110/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5056110/)

~~~
XorNot
The problem is this doesn't delineate very well between the feral and urban
populations. While feral cats are enormously destructive to some ecosystems,
and irresponsible pet ownership is obviously going to contribute to the feral
cat population, it's far less clear that urban domestic cat populations
contribute to ecosystem damage in any serious fashion - because _far more_
damage was done when we went and paved over hundreds of sq miles of that
ecosystem to build a city there.

~~~
dymk
These feral cat populations came from what used to be domestic cats, which got
out and bred.

Nobody is claiming that humans haven't caused damage to the ecosystem. But
you're just spouting a whataboutism when we _know_ that cats are also
incredibly damaging when let to roam free.

------
Gys
A problem with cats is their natural reaction to a leash: they start moving
backwards, where dogs move forwards. It always fascinated me how different
cats and dogs are, in many ways.

------
zygotic12
I've got three cats, one little girl with a violent past, I was sure several
times that she would kill herself in various ways (including having 7 Kittens
at 5 months old). 18 years later her every single day has been complete
indulgence and she expects it! She changed from being an indoor cat 2 years
ago into 'bush girl' and she's never looked better. The point being, as long
as your cat is super happy. Enough.

------
jgh
my cat likes to pretend like he enjoys going outside, then when he gets
outside he flops around for about 10 minutes and then goes back inside.

------
dublin
Let me know how that works out for you... Cats do a fair amount of
environmental damage to birds and the like, but they also contribute to the
natural order as food - my neighbor takes in strays, but never has many cats,
as the (too few) remaining coyotes in the canyons here in Austin yomp a couple
of them every year.

------
gaspoweredcat
Umm no, a thousand times no, first off my cat walks himself, he is free to
come and go as he pleases. second and most importantly if you value your flesh
actually being attached to your skeleton youd be wise to not attempt to put a
lead on my cat, he would happily peel your face off for putting a collar on
him let alone a harness

~~~
mabbo
> he is free to come and go as he pleases

The problem with indoor/outdoor cats is that they eat all they need at home,
but still hunt and kill birds. A lot of them. Some species may be risking
extinction. Plus, if you live in a condo 13 stories up, that's not possible.

> he would happily peel your face off for putting a collar on him let alone a
> harness

Takes time and effort, but cats are trainable. I grew up with a murder-mitted
beast who didn't put up with anything. My cats now, I take the time to train
them rather than let them be violent.

~~~
tdb7893
How many birds do they actually eat? The study I've seen has been mostly
speculation as it's an incredibly hard thing to measure generally.

~~~
rhexs
Feel free to explore the sources here:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_predation_on_wildlife](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_predation_on_wildlife)

"Our findings suggest that free-ranging cats cause substantially greater
wildlife mortality than previously thought and are likely the single greatest
source of anthropogenic mortality for US birds and mammals. Scientifically
sound conservation and policy intervention is needed to reduce this impact."

------
williamstein
I've been walking my dog in very busy parts of Seattle for hours almost every
day for the last 7 months, and have encountered hundreds of other dogs... and
exactly ONE cat the whole time. It was a beautiful bengal cat on a leash. In
any case, around here, people very rarely walk their cats. I always wondered
why.

------
Markoff
my grandma had cats, who wandered anywhere in village but i guess that's
normal in village if you have your own house, but my neighbor nearby has cat
which they let wander outside here in the 1.5M city, i am a bit surprised they
are not afraid of some teenagers killing their cat, biggest issue AFAIK was
that many people didn't like the cat walking around sandpits with
toddlers/infants paint littering there, though i have never seen it and just
let my child touch the nice cat

so sorry for not finding article revolutionary in any way, you might as well
let them roam free which is much more natural than cat on leash, personally if
i would be cat owner i would use GPS tracker to know cat's whereabouts

------
tscherno
Our cat used to follow us without harness 2km in to the woods and back, but
only in the night. :)

~~~
EamonnMR
That sounds like fun for you and the cat. They love running around at night.
Flashlights or night vision goggles?

------
Noctem
I often go on walks with my cat without a leash up the mountain that I live at
the base of. She just follows me; occasionally she'll lag behind if something
interests her, but she catches up eventually if I just keep walking.

------
marssaxman
I tried this with my first ex-wife's cat, sixteen years ago. It didn't work
out very well.

------
dublin
Let me know how that works out for you...

------
dannykwells
Took my cat for a walk once. Traumatized him so much he now just sits in the
corner and talks to himself and chain smokes. Poor guy is still suffering
flash backs of his time on the outside. Who can blame him?

~~~
pweissbrod
Thats not healthy. I've convinced my cat to switch to vaping. Now, he only
smokes when he drinks. But I'm a realist about this sort of thing.

------
porphyrogene
If you have to trap an animal inside of your home at all times because if it
had the chance it would run away forever and you would never see it again,
what is the best word to describe relationship? I don't think "pet" is the
right word.

Having an animal like a cat live its life mostly indoors is contradictory to
its nature and will likely have negative effects on its health. If you want to
own an indoor cat that's fine but one should not be deluded into thinking that
the animal's best interest is in living inside with occasional outdoor
excursions on a tether.

~~~
stubish
Cats are not kept indoors to keep them from running away. Cats are kept
indoors to keep them from killing birds and other small creatures, to keep
them out of traffic, and sometimes keep them from breeding.

You can't make blanket statements about all breeds of house cats like you do.
These are _domesticated_ animals, even if they do still have some wild
instincts and capable of becoming feral. Cats have been living on tiny boats
for literally _thousands_ of years.

~~~
porphyrogene
There is a distinction between domestication and permanent indoor confinement.
Horses are domesticated and so are dogs, donkeys, cows and cats. Just because
some of them are of a convenient size to be kept indoors at all times or tied
to a string to be paraded around an urban does not mean that it is in the best
interest of the animal to do so.

From your comment it seem that you imagine an animal is either confined to
indoors with occasional walks or they are feral. Keeping a domesticated animal
is normal. Keeping an animal locked in your house or on a leash at all times
is weird. Dogs and cats need open space to run and explore. If you want to
keep an animal in a way that contradicts their nature, fine. Just don't lie to
yourself about adapting to your lifestyle to their needs. You are adapting
their lifestyle to your ego.

~~~
zebraflask
Is there an ideological bent behind your opinion? I'm not going to assume
there is, but this sounds like something a radical vegan or a PETA supporter
would say.

In any event, as several other people have chimed in, ask any vet.

