
Burger King is introducing a vegetarian patty from the start-up Impossible Foods - charliepark
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/01/technology/burger-king-impossible-whopper.html
======
scott_s
The Impossible Burger is the best veggie burger I've ever had.

I was a vegetarian for 10 years, and have now been a pescatarian for 8 years.
It has been 18 years since I have had a proper cheeseburger, and since then I
have had _many thousands_ of veggie burgers. Cheeseburgers are probably my
favorite food, and I haven't had one in 18 years. If someone told me that the
world would end tomorrow, I would go out and eat a proper cheeseburger.

I have some experience in this area, is what I'm trying to say. The flavor and
texture is the closest to actual meat I've ever had. And that, then, is the
key for a lot of people: they don't _want_ a veggie burger that simulates
meat. Which is fine! I do, and I imagine the market for close-to-meat veggie
burgers is bigger than obviously-not-meat veggie burgers.

Others in the thread have mentioned the Beyond Burger, which is also good. But
the Impossible Burger, for me, is way better. I have had my Impossible Burgers
at Bareburger. At home, I went with Morningstar Farm's Grillers Prime for a
long time, but about a year ago they changed the recipe, and I did their black
bean for a while. I have since discovered if I season the Griller's Prime
while I'm frying it, it comes out much better.

~~~
spraak
Why don't you think that fish is meat?

~~~
dang
" _Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone
says, not a weaker one that 's easier to criticize. Assume good faith._"

" _Eschew flamebait. Don 't introduce flamewar topics unless you have
something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic
tangents._"

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

~~~
spraak
How could I better ask the question? I'm genuinely confused since they poster
talks about not eating "meat" but eats fish, which culturally for me (Buddhist
and Hindu) are non-veg

~~~
alangpierce
I don't think the poster ever actually said that fish isn't meat, and I guess
a lot of people are interpreting your question as a hostile challenge of the
idea of pescatarianism (along the lines of "Why don't you think that
cheeseburgers are murder?").

If you are struggling to understand pescatarianism as an idea, my perspective
is that flexitarianism, pescatarianism, vegetarianism, and flexiveganism are
all compromise diets that get some but not all environmental and ethical
benefits of veganism. Different people have different levels of commitment and
make different tradeoffs in their life choices. Whether that's "the only meat
I eat is fish" or "I eat fish but not meat" is just a matter of definitions.

In terms of the English word "meat", there is certainly some ambiguity. At
least as I know the term, it feels like a stretch (but maybe technically
correct) to count fish as meat. I've had people suggest sushi when I say that
I'm vegetarian, unaware that vegetarians don't eat fish. If you google for the
Food Pyramid, most diagrams call out meat and fish as different things.
"Vegetarian" almost always doesn't allow fish, but "meat" just isn't a very
precise word.

------
danans
The most interesting thing about this particular announcement is that it may
normalize plant-derived meat-substitutes among the typical fast-food-burger
eating population, and not just the mostly-vegetarian folks (like myself) who
will spend $10 on an Impossible Burger at a fancy sports bar.

Within a decade this might just be normalized, and nobody will make much of
it.

~~~
henrikschroder
No, the implications are even bigger than that, because the normalization and
adoption will drive costs down. And when meat-substitute burgers are _cheaper_
than meat burgers, and taste as good, they will become the default, and that
is going to make a huge dent in the animal industry, which is all sorts of
awesome, because the animal industry is all sorts of terrible.

Right now, I'm seeing Beyond and Impossible substitutes at burger restaurants,
and it always comes with a couple of dollars surcharge, because it is more
expensive. Imagine the day when the _meat_ patty comes with a surcharge,
because the substitute is cheaper!

I am always soapboxing about this, but the only way we can meaningfully
address environmental or ethical concerns, is by doing it through the economy.
The "best" choice has to also be the cheapest choice, because then people will
as if by magic choose that most of the time, unlike when you only have
people's conscience to motivate them, then the wallet still rules most of the
time.

~~~
delfinom
You forget that in America, we'll just bail the farmers out and start
shoveling subsidized overproduced meat everywhere we can.

~~~
briandear
Farmers in Europe and Canada are also heavily subsidized.

~~~
tialaramex
Food security. Anywhere paying attention to history knows that you can get
starved into submission, so if you don't have food security any money you
spent on walls, navies, missile silos etcetera was pointless. So it makes good
public policy sense to subsidize local food production and/or have high
tariffs on imported food.

In WWII Britain came closest to having to surrender due to food shortages. It
didn't have then (and doesn't have now) enough food production to feed
everybody, it relies on imports, and during a war that gets tricky. It got
down to, I think, one week's rations on hand. If the U-boats had been just a
little bit luckier for just another couple of weeks the British government
anticipated uncontrollably levels of public disorder and then one way or
another surrender.

~~~
mikekchar
Not to dispute your main point, but in Japan more than 1 million people died
of starvation after the US blockades in WWII. It's the reason it is illegal to
import staple foods into Japan to this day. The question of whether or not
Japan would have surrendered without nuclear attacks is still very much an
open one. It's really hard to say what the Japanese government was thinking at
the time, but I _can_ say that my mother in law told me that the only reason
she survived is because her uncle had a garden and had a few sweet potatoes.
Most people that were alive during the war suffers still from ill health as a
result of malnutrition at the time. It has given me considerable cause to re-
evaluate things I thought I knew.

~~~
tialaramex
I'm not sure, but in re-reading what I posted it occurs to me that it's
possible to read it as suggesting nowhere else starved (or not as badly as
Britain) whereas what I was intending was that Britain's big threat turned out
not to be aerial bombardment, rocket attack, or straight-up beach invasion but
simply starvation. Invading Britain proved completely impractical, bombing it
into submission was too costly to be continued, but starving it was close to
working.

Culture varies, and it seems unlikely that the British "stiff upper lip" would
have carried on through starvation rations as the Japanese did. Certainly the
government of the day is recorded as having expected to be overthrown once the
reality of starvation was felt by the common people, unless the next shipments
of food arrived (which they did).

------
astura
I'll 100% be giving it a try (I'm already a long time vegetarian though). I
like that it's BK doing this because BK has served a veggie burger
(Morningstar Farms Patty) for around ~14 years, so they should be familiar
with the demand for meatless products.

I remember when they first introduced a veggie burger, I wasn't sure the
demand would be there, but it seems to have worked out.

So it remains to be seen if they'll keep the Morningstar version too.

I've never had a real Whopper, so I can't be comparing the two.

~~~
moosey
Carl's also has the beyond burger, which I personally think is superior. My
wife disagrees, and prefers your standard veggie burgers (we are vegans of 15
years).

~~~
jfengel
I haven't been able to compare the Impossible Burger. I had a Beyond Burger,
and it was very good. If somebody were to hand it to a meat eater at a
cookout, without calling attention to it, they'd eat it without noticing the
switch. Pile on a few toppings (which people usually do because of the
flavorless nature of most fast-food and grocery-store beef), and most people
would be hard pressed to tell the difference in a blind tasting.

It's pretty clear that it's not beef if you're looking for it, but not nearly
as distinct as your standard veggie burgers. Most vegans, though, aren't
especially craving meat simulacra. I think of them more as transitional for
meat eaters rather than as targeting vegans.

~~~
vwarner1411
I too prefer the Beyond Meat burger to the Impossible Burger, but I don't know
about a meat eater not noticing. I love meat - especially beef, but lately
I've also been trying meat alternatives.

Just recently, I ordered an Impossible Burger, and it just left me wanting
beef. It's not that it was bad - the burger looked similar to beef, and was
juicy and delicious. But it didnt taste like beef. Maybe it's different for
others, but for me, the beef is the spotlight of a burger. Beyond and
Impossible haven't gotten that beefy taste - at least to my buds.

When I cook a Beyond Meat burger at home, I usually add a little butter - I
dont think there is enough fat, and I also add some Takii umami powder (which
I believe is just salt, and ground up mushrooms). I think those additions help
the illusion of beef. You could probably also cook the burger in rendered beef
fat, and that would probably really help the beef flavor...probably defeating
the point of meat alternatives though.

I wish I could cook an Impossible at home, just to experiment.

~~~
astura
Your wish should come true, they announced back in January they plan on
selling the Impossible Burger 2.0 in grocery stores.

------
jedberg
FYI for a lot of folks in here who may not know, Taco Bell is vegan certified.
If you order something vegan they will prep it separately and make sure no
animal products touched your food. I suspect they might add Impossible Meat
(or a competitor) some time soon.

~~~
avree
Taco Bell and Burger King are two of the only chains when traveling who will
(reliably) vegan/halal certify. Makes sense why we're seeing this adoption
from BK early.

------
ebg13
People should be aware that Burger King has had (MorningStar) veggie burgers
for a very long time that they just don't broadcast. This announcement is not
about introducing a vegetarian patty but rather about introducing a _specific_
vegetarian patty.

~~~
josefresco
FYI there looks to be less saturated fat, and sodium in a MorningStar burger
compared with the Impossible.

*[http://smartlabel.kelloggs.com/Product/Index/00028989100689](http://smartlabel.kelloggs.com/Product/Index/00028989100689)

~~~
djakjxnanjak
My first complaint about the nutrition of the Morningstar burger is the ratio
of carbs to protien. Restaurants are already throwing tons of carbs at me. I
really want protein in my burger patty.

~~~
udkl
Wait, are you really complaining about nutrition at a fast food restaurant ?

~~~
servercobra
Sometimes, you need something fast, cheap, and easy, so it's nice to have some
fast food items in mind that have reasonable calories and macros. A great
example is when I'm driving long distance, I'll swing by CFA if possible.

~~~
ebg13
> _I 'll swing by CFA if possible._

Uh... [http://cfa.org](http://cfa.org) ?

~~~
sah2ed
Chick-fil-A

[https://www.chick-fil-a.com/](https://www.chick-fil-a.com/)

------
dangerboysteve
The A&W chain in Canada has had the "Beyond Meat" burger for over 1 year and
its been a massive success for them.

[https://web.aw.ca/en/our-menu/burgers/beyond-meat-
burger](https://web.aw.ca/en/our-menu/burgers/beyond-meat-burger)

~~~
cknoxrun
I love these burgers! They have actually helped me transition to completely
beef-free since they address that occasional fast food burger craving.

It’s interesting to note that A&W Canada is entirely separate from A&W in the
US. A&W Canada is much higher quality.

~~~
dimitrov
It was honestly a shock how terrible the US A&W was when I tried it. Canada's
A&W is indeed MUCH better.

------
flowardnut
I've had an impossible burger, and cooked very well it almost made me pull my
waiter aside and verify I wasn't eating meat.

Also ate meat for decades, so I also am very familiar with it.

~~~
nightski
Weird, I tried it and wanted to like it simply because it was higher in fat
and lower carb than your traditional veggie burger - but it was very obvious I
was eating fake meat. It was ok, I'd eat it again. But I would not replace
real beef with it any time soon.

But I am keto. So I am not eating it with a bun and tons of sugary sauces to
cover up the meat flavor. You can really tell the quality of a burger (meat or
not) when you eat it wrapped in lettuce.

~~~
plemer
Similar experience: I wanted to like it, but found that, at best, it tasted
like meat I wouldn't eat again.

Nevertheless, for the sake of the environment and industrially farmed animals,
it's good to see meat substitutes progressing into the mainstream.

~~~
nightski
I'd prefer just more humane animal farming vs. fake meat. It may be more
expensive - but if we incentivized humane farming of animals as much as we
subsidized corn and/or wheat it might not be that bad (or just got rid of
subsidies altogether).

I also think the environmental cost of plant farming is vastly underrated.

~~~
hexane360
But you do realize that the environmental cost of animal farming is guaranteed
to be >10x the cost of plant farming, correct? Each step up the food chain
wastes roughly 90% of the energy, meaning that you need to grow more than 10
kcal of plants to raise 1 kcal of animal. So feeding animals is 10x as
expensive as growing plants, _in addition_ to the costs incurred by actually
raising the livestock.

~~~
nightski
That's not exactly true. I do a lot of work for agricultural companies. One
such company is a huge supplier of animal feed. Their products are the by-
products of sugar production. Raffinate, Betaine, Molasses, Beet Pulp Pellets,
etc... These products are very shelf stable and cheap. But they are not the
main crop. Sugar Beets are not grown for these by-products.

In addition, grazing animals require no such feed. Grass fed beef is a thing,
and it's price is on par or even quite a bit cheaper than fake meat.

~~~
Djvacto
However, even if the animals require no food to be purchased by the farmer,
there is still an environmental cost in the land being used, plus the
opportunity cost of other uses of that land.

Not all land used for grazing can be used to grow plants, true, but in the
cases it can be, you're using that land at a 10% kcal efficiency, so to speak.

------
XaspR8d
White Castle has had Impossible Burgers available for about a year now. Just
interesting to see the trend emerging from what I would consider the "bottom-
most" market segment. I suppose they had the most to gain from drawing in a
meat-averse audience.

Whatever your feelings on this particular product, it seems that the perhaps-
inevitable decline of the traditional meat industry is going to take place on
many fronts (clean meats, plant hemes, alternative proteins, locavore provider
networks, increased availability of traditional vegetarian cuisines).

~~~
sampo
The patty in the normal $1 White Castle slider is so thin, that the $2
Impossible Slider feels like an improvement already just because the patty is
thicker.

------
bitesociety
I'm an angel investor in both plant based meat and clean meat and I'm actually
more optimistic for plant based meat becoming better than animal meat in the
short term. The rate of innovation has been really impressive and momentum is
picking up steam.. once prices get under animal meat huge amounts of people
will switch

~~~
prolepunk
Hopefully carbon taxes and such would kick in at some point and would include
the real environmental cost of beef, so the switching to plant based beef
would be even more swift.

~~~
nightski
Beef only is responsible for 3% of greenhouse gasses in America. I'm not sure
an "emission" tax would really affect the price all that much. In addition,
you have to account for and tax the emissions produced in plant production
(fertilizer, agricultural soil, transportation, etc...). Agriculture is a
total of 9%, whereas livestock only accounts for 3% of that.

I work for agriculture companies, and a lot of animal feed comes from by-
products of other agricultural products. For example, beet pulp pellets,
raffinate, betaine, molasses are all by products of sugar production and are
used for animal feed extensively. They are cheap and very shelf stable.

[https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-
emis...](https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions)

~~~
prolepunk
I believe this is a very US-centric viewpoint.

I'm using the article 'Beef Cattle and Greenhouse Gas Production' from
Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs.
[http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/beef/news/info...](http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/beef/news/info_vbn1013a4.htm)

According Food and Agricultural Organization (FAO) of the UN 2006 report
livestock were responsible for 18% of all human-related greenhouse gas
production. 14.5% according to 2013 report.

Of that 43% is Enteric.

There may only be 9% GHG emissions in the US, but beef also comes from other
countries where these emissions are very different. See Regional and
Production System differences.

From the article -- There was an approximately 4-fold difference in emission
intensity between the top 10% of producers and the bottom 10% of producers
within a system.

~~~
nightski
You are right, but I was discussing in reference to a U.S. based emissions
"tax". Maybe I misunderstood and they were suggesting a worldwide tax? Not
sure how that would work.

If the U.S. were to tax agriculture production of beef, I'm assuming that
would be for U.S. farmers so the relevant statistic is emissions in the U.S.

------
notwhereyouare
I tried the impossible burger and personally didn't notice a difference. The
boyfriend tried a bite, and liked it, but could taste something off. I'm kinda
excited to see where both the impossible burger goes, and where other
restaurants take this.

Also for the price to come down, it was like $3 more than the boyfriend's
burger

~~~
belltaco
There's a version 2.0 with different ingredients that supposedly tastes even
closer to real meat.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18855695](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18855695)

I tried version 1 and it tasted indistinguishable from meat.

~~~
gnicholas
I’m curious about this. I had the first generation many times and found it to
be pretty good.

After the second generation came out, I went to my favorite place to get the
IB (Gotts in Palo Alto) and asked if they had the new recipe. They seemed
uncertain at first but then said they did. I ordered it and it was fine, but
not as good as I’d seen in online reviews.

Honestly, if I was told it was the first generation, I would have believed it.
I wonder if some restaurants are still working through their stock of the
first generation patties?

~~~
yuethomas
I was at The Counter on California Ave. over the weekend, and they confirmed
they had the v2 recipe. Maybe give that a try!

~~~
gnicholas
Will do! How did you find V2, compared to V1?

~~~
marzell
My impression of Impossible Burger v1.0 was that the pinkish/uncharred bits
had an odd sweetness and moisture/texture that made it most distinguishable
from a beef burger. With 2.0, the texture is a bit more firm and beef-like,
and it seems they've put less emphasis on the 'bleeding' which I think has
reduced the sweetness as well.

I had a notion that I intended to test with v1.0 that it would be more
convincing if you charred the hell out of it and made it more like an
overcooked burger, however I never did test it, and I also read that it didn't
perform well (fell apart, etc) if too overcooked. However, I did really like
the flavor and texture of the most charred bits of the burgers I did have.

------
yumraj
I'm curious as to how Impossible burger compares on the health impact. I
understand that it's plant based, but it seems to be highly processed and
perhaps (not sure) loaded with bunch of chemicals and potentially unhealthy
ingredients that make it taste like meat.

Hopefully that is not the case and it's not just a meat substitute but is also
healthy. Can anyone with more details please opine?

~~~
jackbrookes
What makes you think "processed" and "chemicals" are bad for you?

~~~
hokkos
Some of the biggest and best studies on nutrition told us that processed food
is not very good for us :

Study links heavily processed foods to risk of earlier death
[https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/11/study-
links-...](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/11/study-links-
heavily-processed-foods-to-risk-of-earlier-death)

~~~
jdietrich
There is an _association_ between processed foods and poor health outcomes.
There are some processes that have a clear causal link with poor health, most
obviously the use of nitrates in meat preservation. It is not clear that all
(or even most) processing is harmful.

~~~
marzell
Another aspect of this is that processed foods require less calories for your
body to metabolize, since they are already partly broken down. While that
doesn't specifically increase the rate of exposure to pathogens/toxicity, it
does increase the net calories consumed in an already high-calorie category,
and contributes to obesity.

------
Pfhreak
April fools day is a tough day to make this announcement.

But I'm genuinely thrilled to see this. Hopefully some non zero percentage of
customers give this a try and reduce the amount of meat in their diet.

That said, I don't expect that non zero percentage to be very high without a
lot of marketing.

~~~
marzell
I think it's a great opportunity for exposure for these new meat alternatives,
and also a potentially great income boost that will help them expand
operations and secure their future business.

------
Vinnl
I presume this is only for the US Burger King? Although there are perfectly
fine plant-based alternatives available in the Netherlands, after all the hype
about the Impossible and Beyond burgers on HN I'm curious to give either a
try.

Edit: Found a different article [1] that says:

> Burger King is giving the Impossible Burger a trial run in 59 restaurants in
> the St. Louis area, and if that goes well, the fast-food chain will make the
> product available in all its 7,200 branches across the US

[1] [https://www.vox.com/future-
perfect/2019/4/1/18290762/burger-...](https://www.vox.com/future-
perfect/2019/4/1/18290762/burger-king-impossible-whopper-plant-based-meat)

~~~
jmcs
There are places with Beyond Burger in Berlin and it's one of the best patties
I tried, to the point were some non-vegetarians friends choose it when
available.

~~~
Vinnl
Oh sweet, will have to check that out next time I'm in Berlin - thanks for the
tip.

------
gnicholas
Are they cooked separately from the meat burgers? Some people don’t care, but
some definitely do.

Carl’s Jr. doesn’t keep their Beyond Burgers separate, apparently.

~~~
alpaca128
Just out of interest, what's the reasoning behind a strict separation of the
two? I understand it in the case of gluten free products because that can
really have health implications, but when you are vegan for ethical reasons it
shouldn't make a difference, right?

But I'd say this is great news either way. I like meat, but when there's a way
to get the same taste and texture without the bad consequences for animals and
environment I'm all for it, and I'm sure many others are the same.

~~~
astura
Religious reasons, for one.

Some vegetarians are just very grossed out by it (I'm one of them).

I generally look the other way at very minor cross contamination, its probably
going to happen once in a while, especially if I don't know about it, but if I
taste meat juices in my food I completely lose my appetite. I once bit into
sausage that found its way into my pizza (I suspect it fell into the cheese)
and I couldn't eat pizza for a while after that. (of course, for a burger
that's supposed to taste exactly like beef, you wouldn't know...)

If you think that makes me crazy or whatever, then so be it.

~~~
scott_s
> (of course, for a burger that's supposed to taste exactly like beef, you
> wouldn't know...)

Funny thing, that: [http://archives.quarrygirl.com/2009/06/28/undercover-
investi...](http://archives.quarrygirl.com/2009/06/28/undercover-
investigation-of-la-area-vegan-restaurants/)

~~~
slfnflctd
Fascinating study, it looks like they really did their best to control all the
variables.

Makes sense that dairy and eggs were the most commonly found non-vegan
ingredients-- they are both such a huge part of cooking. As someone who has
tried to go vegan in the past, I can tell you that cheese was probably the
hardest thing to fully cut out for me, and eggs were right behind it. I'm glad
the liars are being called out, though, that is some despicable behavior.

~~~
ryanweinstein
Have you tried follow your heart vegan cheese?

~~~
slfnflctd
Not yet, but I will attempt to do so soon, thank you.

------
PurpleRamen
Damn, this day is ruining me. Took me way too long to realize that the title
has beef-less written, not bee-less.

Anyway, Fast Food-Franchises are IMHO the perfect breeding-ground to raise
lab-grown meat to success. Most of their meat is processed to a degree, that
you can't taste the original texture or figure out their real source of it.
And they are one of the biggest sellers for meat. Removing this chain will be
a big service for environment.

~~~
ClassyJacket
I agree, but Impossible isn't lab grown meat, it's just made from plants.

[https://faq.impossiblefoods.com/hc/en-
us/articles/3600189374...](https://faq.impossiblefoods.com/hc/en-
us/articles/360018937494-What-are-the-ingredients-)

~~~
PurpleRamen
Oh, thx! TIL.

Seems I had a bad misconception here. This brand is not available in my
country and I only ever heard of indirectly. But reading up on it, I see where
it's coming from.

~~~
WhompingWindows
The original article states that, maybe read the article before commenting.

------
Wheaties466
Vegan Here. I know a bunch about the health implications about meat. I follow
very closely the impossible burger and beyond burger and their move into the
mainstream restaurants. If you have any questions ask away.

I personally went straight from being a heavy meat eater and steak lover to a
full blown vegan.

below is a video in which they make the impossible burger by hand and show
every ingredient as well as showing the ins and outs of the impossibel burger
from a science perspective.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63FHZy_7-qs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63FHZy_7-qs)

~~~
vbuwivbiu
where does the Haem come from and are the binders they use safe to eat ?

------
dkobia
Impossible burgers are awesome and I've had quite a few. It also really
depends on how it's made and how it's dressed up - as with any burger. My only
lingering issue is that it is a highly processed food, and psychologically it
helps to know what you're eating.

~~~
cowkingdeluxe
They are also typically really high calorie (not that it's much different from
a regular beef patty).

~~~
SketchySeaBeast
Yeah, it's basically an ethical burger, which, if that's what you're looking
for, that's great. While I can tell it tastes different, when dressed up in a
burger it hits the spot just like a hamburger does. The problem is when people
try and convince themselves that just because it's vegetarian it's healthy,
which isn't the case at all. After all, Oreo's are vegan.

------
ortusdux
The life cycle analysis for the patty is impressive. Not sure how it stacks up
when combined as a whole package.

[https://impossiblefoods.app.box.com/s/edwcfyvojzsvzn5d633dxt...](https://impossiblefoods.app.box.com/s/edwcfyvojzsvzn5d633dxt4c4ehyzqq3)

------
Accacin
I'd like to add that I see a lot of people saying, "If you're vegetarian/vegan
why are you going Burger King?" \- Well, I don't go often, but on the off
chance that I'm with some friends and they go to a fast-food restaurant, it's
much easier and less awkward if there's something I can eat too.

~~~
rednerrus
"Because I want to have a drive through vegetarian hamburger and I want it to
have it anywhere in the country...

~~~
bsder
Burger King and McDonald's "burgers" barely resemble the real thing anymore,
so an "Impossible Burger" might be a step up.

Seriously, go eat a McDonald's burger in Italy. The difference between that
one and one in the US will shock you.

~~~
Retra
Why would anybody eat a chicken nugget when they can get a slice of that grade
A free-range whole wheat grass fed organic chicken breast which provides only
objectively superior flavor for every human palette? Better not put bbq sauce
on it though, because that is meant for only the classiest of ribs. Every
aspect of food: price, quality, appeal, ethics, and flavors, lie together on a
single linear scale. So sayeth the religion of the sacred snob diet.

~~~
sneakernets
I know you're trolling, but there once was a time when fast food wasn't
objectively terrible. Something happened in the name of cost-cutting. Taco
Bell is one of the biggest ones I remember, as they would have an employee
prepare the lettuce manually, grate the cheese, etc. Even the olives were
sliced by a kitchen tool.

McDonald's is another one, my cousin once earned a "fry guy" pin where he cut
and fried the most potatoes in a day. Yes, _cut_. None of that frozen garbage.

~~~
Retra
I am not 'trolling', because I am not looking for an emotional reaction. I am
using sarcasm or parody in an attempt to bring attention to the absurdity of
taking something as subjective as personal taste and pretending it is
objective fact.

You can say McDonalds food is different from what it was. That's a fact. You
can say McDonalds food is terrible. That's your opinion. But if I want a thin
salty burger with cheese dissolved onto it on a suspiciously smooth bun... who
are you to say McDonalds isn't the correct choice? You wouldn't prefer it? Ok.
Don't eat it. But don't try to say it is _objectively_ terrible.

Sometimes I like a steak that dissolves in my mouth in a burst of flavor.
Sometimes I want one that can be chewed on and doesn't turn to mush. They're
different experiences. Neither is _objectively_ better than the other, no
matter how many chefs are trying to sell me $70 steaks.

------
mav3rick
As a vegetarian my entire life. I don't think I am the right audience for
this. McDonald's in India gets the right mix of potatoes and veggies to make a
delicious veggie burger. Trader Joe's has some Spicy Masala Patties that are
very good too. Needless to say these are mostly carbs and no protein but the
taste is awesome :)

~~~
cheeze
Sounds like you're not. If you don't want the taste of meat, there is 0 point
in you caring about this at all.

But as you said, those options have no protein and aren't trying to be a meat
replacement.

~~~
mav3rick
Correct !!

------
Wistar
I've had both the original and, just this weekend, the new, version 2
Impossible burger. The new one is substantially better than the original and I
think the original is quite good. Whereas the original is a bit dry, no matter
where I have had it (HopDoddy in LA, Fat Burger and Earl's in Bellevue, WA),
the new version has a better texture and flavor. I think it'd be hard to tell
it apart from a decent beef burger although I am sure it won't stand up to a
high-end, custom-grind type, beef burger.

My Jewish fried rejoices in that she can now have cheeseburgers,

~~~
vanattab
Do Jews not eat beef? I thought it was mainly pork?

~~~
shaggyfrog
The prohibition is against meat and dairy simultaneously.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_and_meat_in_Jewish_law](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_and_meat_in_Jewish_law)

~~~
jonny_eh
And finding kosher beef. If you want a kosher burger, you usually need to buy
the beef yourself and make your own burger.

~~~
markdown
Is it really that hard to find kosher beef in US restaurants? What about halal
beef?

~~~
bobthepanda
_All_ the beef has to be kosher.

Not only that, but the kosher requirements (no dairy and meat together),
depending on how kosher you are, also to apply to the plates the meal is
served on, the equipment the meal is cooked on, and food storage areas; you
need strictly segregated facilities, and washing between uses does not make it
kosher. The requirements are strict to the point where rabbis have to
regularly certify kosher restaurants as kosher.

~~~
markdown
I see. Thanks for the insight.

------
sebringj
The impossible 1 is super salty where I've had it in hop doddy and ruby's
diner in SoCal. It reminded me more of mince meat type quality, passable but
gross. I'm hoping 2 is perfect because I really would prefer to not have to
eat cows and have that reduced carbon footprint along with better health. Win
win win.

~~~
megaremote
Burgers are made from mince meat though, so I am not sure what you mean?

~~~
sebringj
Canned meat that tastes like cat pate although I assume because I've just
smelled it so far (cat food). Not sure exactly sure how to describe the
weirdness of the impossible 1.

------
istjohn
I really hope McDonalds adds a veggie burger to their menu soon, too. I try to
avoid meat, but often end up eating it in fast food for the convenience and
due to a lack of alternatives.

~~~
robin_reala
Where are you? There’s a full vegetarian menu in Sweden:
[https://www.mcdonalds.com/se/sv-se/hela-
menyn/vegetariskt.ht...](https://www.mcdonalds.com/se/sv-se/hela-
menyn/vegetariskt.html)

~~~
lm28469
I saw these menus in France, Germany and UK too.

Looks like it isn't available in the US though,
[https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/about-our-food/our-
food-y...](https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/about-our-food/our-food-your-
questions/vegetarian-and-vegan.html)

~~~
aitchnyu
And I thought India was the only place McDonalds, Burger King and KFC have a
vegetarian menu.

------
jsnider3
The real impact of this kind of technology will be when it becomes cheaper and
starts to interest the general public.

~~~
cannonedhamster
It's already most likely cheaper when you take into account false pricing
signals due to the fact that the US meat industry is _heavily_ subsidized
through taxation. Add to that lower healthcare costs due to less heart disease
and realistically it should be pretty cheap comparatively.

I've had this burger and I prefer the Beyond Burger, but the meat eaters that
had it said it tasted just like a run of the mill fast food burger, so I'm
hoping that it takes off with the health and environmentally conscious. If
anyone can really make this work I'm thinking Burger King or McDonalds could,
they are both excellent logistically and process wise.

This is exciting news in the food world and opens up a lot of choices for
people looking for less heavy food choices.

~~~
Scoundreller
Be careful, ounce for ounce, the meat substitute burgers may not be all that
healthy.

The impossible burger has more fat, more saturated fat and more sodium than
the standard beef patties. Less cholesterol though. Again, by mass (their
patties are smaller, so direct comparisons are a little harder).

Comparison chart about halfway down:
[https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/nutrition-environment-
gene...](https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/nutrition-environment-general-
science/impossible-burger-vegetarian-breakthrough-brought-you-science)

I know that the beef industry has a lot of subsidies (many billions per year),
but how much impact does that have on price? Without subsidies, what happens
to the $3.99 Big Mac? Would it go to $4.19 or $7?

~~~
gowld
Nutrition per mass is irrelevant -- that depends on water content
(meaningless) and starch content (minor). your choice of toppings and bun
dominate the "per unit measure" analysis.

What matters is the ratios protein vs sat fat vs fat vs carbs, and what your
view of health science tells you is optimal.

Per g of protein, impossible burgers are low fat, and Beyond Meat is reguar
fat.

------
mistersys
This is so important. I do eat meat (actually quit a lot right now due to
health experiments) and I don't think the vegetarian movement will
significantly reduce our meat consumption.

While I can't argue that animals should have the same rights as humans, I
believe our psychology is wired for empathy even of animals and that may be
the only "collectively objective' moral compass we have as humans.

The better we treat animals, the more resources we consume to produce meat.
Lab-grown meat startups IMO have incredible potential to not only solve this
problem but also make high quality meat incredible cheap. Great space to
follow.

Note: of coarse the impossible burger isn't lab-grown, but they're working on
that.

------
jvagner
Frankly, I'm a little tired of the meat-substitute products, as they don't
taste as good nor are they likely to be as healthy as a proper, whole-food
plant veggie burger.

Impossible Burger 1.0 was vital wheat gluten based, and Impossible Burger 2.0
will be soy based. I'd probably rather have the 2nd over the first, but a lot
of these announcements aren't specific about which formulation is being sold.

I have tried the Impossible Burger in a number of places, and to my taste,
it's inedible. My girlfriend likes to try them, and the best we've had so far
is at a fish & steak place in Phoenix (Dillon's, out on the west side, near
Sun City).

~~~
dfxm12
I would say Burger King isn't about healthy or good tasting, but rather fast,
cheap and convenient.

~~~
jvagner
My comment was more about Impossible / Beyond, and their ilk, the ones taking
in lots of investment money, and inking deals with fast food, and gourmet
chains alike.

Impossible started in "nicer" restaurants and is moving downmarket.

------
crazygringo
I had the impossible burger at Momofuku and... it's just nothing like a
burger, the two big differences being in flavor and in texture. (It _looks_
the same as a regular burger.)

In flavor, it just doesn't have it. It has the same char flavor that a burger
has... but without any meat flavor behind it, which is of course most of the
flavor of a hamburger. Which makes sense, of course, because there's no meat.
It's like picking up what you think is a Coke only when you taste it it's just
sparkling water.

And then in texture it's quite different too. As if meat, instead of being
ground (with all the satisfying texture that still has), were somehow blended
into something more like a smooth paste before cooking. It isn't physically
substantial or satisfying to chew, just mushy.

Since I'm not vegetarian, it's definitely not something I would ever order
again because it doesn't have flavor and doesn't have texture. I'm not even
talking about as a substitute, I'm just talking about as food period. Just
give me some roasted veggies instead which have both flavor and texture. I
mean, I _love_ vegetables.

Or if you want a vegetarian "burger", a meaty Portobello mushroom is waaaay
tastier.

But the Impossible Burger just feels like the worst of all worlds -- not
satisfying like meat (just nowhere close), but also not satisfying as
vegetables or any kind of "real food" at all.

~~~
belltaco
Maybe try version 2.0, if that wasn't version 2.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18855695](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18855695)

~~~
13rac1
There is a significant difference between the v1 and v2. v1 is a reasonable
copy of a meat burger. v2 is nearly indistinguishable. Many restaurants are
just now finishing up their v1 stock, so you may still see it around.

------
adrianmonk
Well, that's a funny coincidence. McDonald's Australia has an April Fool's
joke about a McPickle Burger
([https://www.instagram.com/p/Bvr3W-AjUWd/](https://www.instagram.com/p/Bvr3W-AjUWd/))
which you could, in a sense, call a goofy version of a veggie burger.
Meanwhile, on the same day, their competitor is announcing an _actual_ veggie
burger.

~~~
bunderbunder
In the US, at least, before Burger King introduced their current veggie
burger, they had something that wasn't far off from this.

It wasn't posted on th emenu, but you could order a "vegetarian Whopper" that
cost something like $0.50 and was just a Whopper where they left off the
patty.

------
cmurf
[https://faq.impossiblefoods.com/hc/en-
us/articles/3600189392...](https://faq.impossiblefoods.com/hc/en-
us/articles/360018939274-What-are-the-nutrition-facts-)

I'm a little surprised the fiber is 3g, taht seems low seeing as it's made
from plants. But then an e.g. Morningstar Farm black bean patty has 4g fiber
and 1/3 the protein.

I had one at a restaurant just last week, $3 up charge made it an $18 burger.
I'm not sure about that. But I doubt I'd have guessed it wasn't cow had I not
ordered it myself. Perhaps eventually this or something like it becomes the
default and it's a $3 up charge for animal meat. Meanwhile Native Foods makes
their own burgers from plants rather than using a name brand 3rd party
product, and manages to put together a pretty good $12-13 burger that includes
a side. It's a bigger pile of fiber. (I'm not a vegetarian let alone vegan.)

------
astatine
I have tried a lot of fake meat in China where you get entire restaurants
serving mock meat of every variety - beef, chicken, many types of seafood.
Though the rest of the characteristics of the meal were the prime reason to
consume them for me - the flavor, the style, the ambience. As a life-long
vegetarian, the Impossible burger worked differently for me. I have been
seeing ads for the beef burgers forever and used to wonder about them, without
really feeling like trying them. This gave me a chance to see what the "real"
texture of meat was. Distinctly different toi the plenty of vegetarian burgers
I have had, it came across as lot more dense, more toothy (for lack of a
better word) and lot more filling than a regular one. I had only encountered
them in more trendy restaurants and an glad to see them in the mainstream now.

------
01100011
I'm allergic to soy protein, so I was bummed to hear that the impossible
burger is switching to it. Same thing with Soylent. I guess if it's hydrolyzed
I might be able to tolerate it, but I'm pretty sure they're using concentrate
because it's cheaper.

------
1024core
I have never eaten beef, except for 2 occasions.

Recently, I ordered an impossible burger. It was _so close_ to real beef (or
as I remember it), that after 1 bite I stopped. I wasn't sure if I was eating
real beef or not, and I didn't want to risk it.

For those who crave the taste of meat but want to be vegetarian: you must try
the Impossible Burger.

Personally, I don't crave the taste of meat, I just like the form factor. So a
good veggie patty is all I need.

BK was the first burger chain to carry the Gardenburger line of veggie burgers
and this is why I would seek out BKs whenever I travelled. I hope they
continue to carry them if they decide to include the IB too in their
offerings.

------
ryanmcbride
When I was vegetarian I really loved the Impossible burger when it was just
coming out. I was amazed at how much it tasted like meat. Over time though it
seems like most restaurants forgot how to cook them. I'd order one and it
would be gray all the way through, cooked to hockey puck toughness. I stopped
ordering them all together.

My guess is that as it was offered longer, fewer people would order it since
it was no longer a novelty, so the cooks would forget that they don't need
nearly enough time as a normal beef burger.

I'm no longer vegetarian but I'll definitely try v2 once it's more available.

------
equalunique
Today, you can order an Impossible Burger from the Bar Louie on 23rd St in
Crystal City, Virginia, across the Potomac River from Washington, D.C. - It's
my favorite item on the menu, and I'm not a vegetarian. It's more tender,
juicy, and tastier than a "real" burger patty.

Not sure about other Bar Louie locations.

Burger King has had vegetarian burger patties supplied by Morning Star Farms
for around two decades now. These were the standard for quality for a long
long time. I am glad something as amazing as Impossible Burger has stepped in
to advance the legacy.

------
MuffinFlavored
How do the other components of a typical Burger King meal stack up health
wise, ignoring the patty?

Bun, cheese, condiments, fries, seasoning? Is it "not that bad", or should the
average Joe still feel guilty about indulging?

~~~
agentdrtran
This is mentioned in the article. Same amount of protein, slightly less fat,
90% less cholesterol.

------
alexmingoia
If you want a cheaper alternative to the Beyond Burger or Impossible Burger,
try MorningStar's "Meat Lovers" burger. IMO it's just as good, with 27g of
protein and without as much saturated fat.

~~~
devmunchies
Their patties had eggs in them last I checked, but that was a couple of years
ago. So not a direct replacement for the BB or the IB.

~~~
alexmingoia
Some of their products do, but not this one. This patty is called "Meat Lovers
Vegan Burgers" [https://www.morningstarfarms.com/products/msf-veggie-
burgers...](https://www.morningstarfarms.com/products/msf-veggie-burgers-meat-
lovers-vegan-burger.html)

------
Arn_Thor
I quite like the impossible burger and would order it four out of five times
I'm in an establishment that serves it. But the other day I tried some
impossible meat spicy "sausages". I don't know if they are a product from
those guys or something the caterer concocted. They were addictive! I can
definitely see a near future where meat "substitutes" (for lack of a better
word) are the default

------
jniedrauer
Looks like the formula was originally based on seitan but is now based on soy.
I've been experimenting with seitan recently in my own cooking. Its texture is
almost perfect as a chicken substitute, but it's low in some important amino
acids (lysine). It's very interesting that they've switched to a soy-based
formula, since soy is a whole protein source. I may try to copy this at
home...

------
prolepunk
This is a good thing. More vegetarian fast-food options are coming down the
pipe.

I've recently seen a few ads from Harvey's, went there and had a burger. It's
not the same as beef but it's a burger.

The good part of having a vegetarian burger is that I don't enter into
catatonic state for about 1/2 hour after I had fast food. I can eat fast food
when meat is replaced with something else.

------
simonw
I've tried them in a bunch of places, but the best impossible burger I've had
is at Jardinière in Hayes Valley San Francisco.

They're closing down on April 27th (after 21 years) so you have 4 weeks to try
it.

You don't need a reservation: the burger is available as bar food, so you can
walk in any evening after 7pm and get one. Costs $16 I think.

If you haven't tried one yet this is a great place to start.

------
duxup
I guess fast food burgers is where a lot of meat is consumed but ... oddly I
find most fast food burgers to not taste like beef. Or maybe it is better said
they taste "like" beef.

I'll be happy to replace meat with better alternatives when they come, but at
least from my perspective it's not a huge step, although maybe it will make a
big difference in the larger scope.

------
lgleason
Years ago I worked at a Burger King in the kitchen and someone ordered a
vegetarian Whopper. We all looked at each other wondering how to do that when
the manager came back and instructed us to make a Whopper without the meat
patty. IE: A bun, with Mayo, lettuce, tomato, onion, ketchup and pickles. This
sounds a lot more appetizing than what we served that day...

------
tonmoy
This may sound like a stupid question, but I am genuinely trying to know/see
what people at HN think. Is it less ethical to kill and eat mammals/birds than
plants? I know farming and eating animals is certainly worse for the
environment, but I wanted to know the ethics aspects of it. Why is the life of
a potato tree any less significant than a cow’s?

Edit: wording

~~~
cmonnow
Probably the same reason why the life of a cow is apparently less significant
than that of a human.

There is a hierarchy of 'life'. Those who try to say 'All or Nothing' when it
comes to harming a sentient being are either ignorant or simply trying to
justify their meat-eating habits.

~~~
tonmoy
I am definitely justifying eating meat, but that is not a fallacy of the
argument by itself. If you think of “hierarchy of life” as being closely
related to us, then I could justify eating super intelligent octopus over
cows. Again if you mean the hierarchy as intelligence then I would ask if it
is ok to consume the less intelligent variants within a specific species.
Moreover, would it be ethical if we bred/genetically engineered a cow/chicken
which have near zero IQ and no emotion at all and consumed that only?

~~~
hkyeti
On the plants front, know that the ratio for beef is over 20 to 1. ie a cow
eats 20 calories of plants, to produce 1 calorie of meat. It's far more
efficient (and less plant consumption overall) to just eat the plant calories
instead.

You could make the same argument with eating engineered zero sentience humans.
Or humans born with extreme disabilities. I think ethically it comes down to
does the being have the ability to feel pain and suffer, and the emotional
responses that come with it. eg a pig is more intelligent than a 3 year old,
can solve the mirror test and has deep bonds with family, builds emotional
connections, has the basic emotions we have etc. It's hard to justify their
suffering and ultimate consumption by us when there are so many alternatives
available.

------
pmann
The article says a 90% reduction in cholesterol for the impossible burger, but
shouldn't a vegetarian option have 0 cholesterol?

~~~
cannonedhamster
Fats and oils have cholesterol. It's generally healthier types and lower
amounts than meat sources though. It's not always zero.

~~~
NoPiece
Calling out the cholesterol is kind of a distraction, because it is no longer
what is associated with heart disease. The level of saturated fat in the
impossible burger is actually very high.

 _Impossible Burger, for example, has more than double the saturated fat of an
85% lean beef burger: 3.6 grams per ounce (derived from coconut oil) versus
1.7._

[https://www.foodandwine.com/news/great-veggie-burger-
debate-...](https://www.foodandwine.com/news/great-veggie-burger-debate-are-
they-actually-good-you)

I know there is debate about the link between saturated fat and heart disease,
and further question about the specific types of saturated fat in coconut oil.
I have no idea what the truth is, but if you are on a low fat diet, impossible
burger isn't a good substitute for beef.

I've tried impossible burger, and thought it was very good, so I'd eat it just
for the flavor.

~~~
josefresco
> The level of saturated fat in the impossible burger is actually very high.

Also high in sodium, which is part of the reason why it's so yummy (to some)

------
anthony_doan
I've tried the impossible burger on a friend's recommendation (fat burger).

He overblown it.

It's good. But it doesn't taste like meat and the texture isn't close, only
the seared like texture works the inner is different. The flavor is off. I
want to say the fat of meat gives it that good taste which impossible burger
does not have.

~~~
hkyeti
Not sure which is was but the v2 is significantly better than v1 and they are
constantly upgrading each year

------
Karunamon
I'm really looking forward to this. As far as I can tell, no restaurant or
store sells Impossible burgers in my city or anywhere in reasonable driving
distance, so this will be my first opportunity to try one. If they're as good
as people tend to think they are, I'll have no issue moving my whopper habit
over to these :D

------
geddy
This is great. The more places people can choose not to eat meat, the better.
Personally I don’t foresee this demographic trying anything new, but for those
who never eat meat or fast food and suddenly find ourselves in a pitstop
somewhere, it’s great to know that we’d have something to eat that isn’t baby
carrots and hummus.

------
Yhippa
Where I currently work every now and then they have spaghetti and meatballs
using the Impossible meat. I was so convinced that it was a legitimate
substitute that I asked to see if I could just buy the meatballs straight-up
to use at home. No dice.

I can't wait until the time I can just get them from the grocery store.

------
atomical
The real change is going to happen when people can't tell a difference in
taste and Walmart starts selling synthetic meat at a substantial discount to
meat. At that point the consumer won't care just like the consumer doesn't
care if their strawberry flavored cereal has real strawberries in it.

~~~
SketchySeaBeast
Strawberry flavoured cereal and synthetic meats are miles apart - if we're
talking lab grown meat that's amazing - it's tender meat that has no ethical
issues. If you're talking the impossible burger, that's a burger that again
has no ethical issues and a minor compromise in taste. Nutritionally it's
basically equivalent to a normal burger.

Strawberry flavoured cereal is nothing like a strawberry, and can't possibly
hope to emulate any of its properties (not even taste).

~~~
moosey
There can be ethical issues surrounding lab grown meat, mostly around how much
energy it takes to produce lab grown meat, and the nature of that energy
production.

My guess is that beyond will soon be cheaper than regular meat, but that the
requirements for creating lab grown are simply going to be too great to be
able to compete economically or ecologically. I'm going to be very happy to be
proven wrong someday, but that's my initial, knee-jerk reaction.

~~~
hkyeti
The lifecycle analysis I've studied showed it better than animal meat on every
aspect including energy, do you have a link to show otherwise?

------
xutopia
I tried the V1 and found it lacking in terms of flavour and texture. It looked
decent until you bite into it, at which point it looked less like meat and
more like ground up veggies. I applaud the effort and look forward to tasting
V2. That said I don't believe it is necessarily healthier for someone.

~~~
thinkcontext
Why don't you think it would be healthier for some? The article claims 90%
less cholesterol. There are many millions of people that have high cholesterol
and $billions is spent to control it and many more $billions is spent on the
heart disease consequences. Everything I've read says red meat is one of if
not the biggest contributor to high cholesterol.

------
lukahn
Sounds great. It's impressive to see just how far the industry has come, and
what's in store for the future. Hopefully it'll be available near me at some
point, but even in the last 5 years, the vegetarian alternatives have come a
long long way (i.e. not just one menu item any more).

------
chuckgreenman
This is a pretty great way for these simulation burgers to start out. When I
get a fast food hamburger, I'm not expecting something processed. I haven't
had an impossible burger but it looks a lot like a fast food hamburger.
Looking forward to trying it!

------
ourmandave
Does it smell like beef when cooking?

Part of BK's draw for me is the place smells like a backyard cook out.

~~~
cannonedhamster
The smells in some places are specifically manufactured. I'm sure the BK will
still smell like a BK as this will be a minority of eaters.

~~~
SteveNuts
Yeah, BK tastes like that fake smoke flavor stuff I don't like it.

------
anarazel
As a vegetarian of ~20 years, I kinda find them _too_ meat like. I constantly
wonder whether I accidentally got the wrong patty. I guess that's largely
because I've only dim memories of the real thing.

Am I the only one in that?

------
AtlasBarfed
For those that think the Impossible is still not up to snuff:

Has anyone done any testing of mixing of real beef and impossible to get as
close as possible to "real" perception while minimizing the amount of real?

~~~
hkyeti
There are startups doing that, eg better meat co etc. It's a smart way to
reduce costs and environmental / suffering impact.

------
IronWolve
And those burger patties only have 5 carbs. So even Keto friendly. (minus
bun).

------
johnchristopher
I am in a pizzeria right now and reading this. Looking at the pizza being
prepared and thinking... Can we already have ham-like meat, like those slices
they put on pizzas ? Or is it only beef-like meat for now?

~~~
nickik
The technology is more or less there. But it would require a significant
amount of actual product development. The technology is capable of producing
pretty much every meat, even new kinds of meat that smell like meat but where
evolution did not conveniently evolve an animal to produce it.

For the company the issue is scale, and since the beef market is huge and
profitable they are focusing on scale, more then on introducing other
products.

~~~
johnchristopher
Thanks. Can fish flesh be done as well?

~~~
hkyeti
Yes, the gardein fishless fillet has convinced several of my omnivore friends
they are eating real fish. Same I've heard for the ocean hugger raw tuna sushi
etc

~~~
johnchristopher
That's exciting, I wish I could try it. So it means we can have sushis ?

~~~
hkyeti
Yep! I'm an angel investor in them from outside of the U.S. so I haven't tried
it myself but friends who have say it's great:
[https://oceanhuggerfoods.com/store-
locator](https://oceanhuggerfoods.com/store-locator)

~~~
johnchristopher
I am outside the US as well :).

------
donum
Wow this is very interesting and I am very surprised by how much experience
you guys have with this stuff. Does anybody know where I can order this in
Germany?

------
interestica
Oh no? Burger Kind currently has the best veggie burger of any fast food
chain. That char flavour sets it apart. Though maybe that will be in the new
one too.

------
mesozoic
While not exactly tasting like beef the Impossible foods "Meat" is actually
quite good in it's own right. I'll probably check this out.

------
boynamedsue
I am a life-long vegetarian. I have eaten the Impossible Burger and I liked
it.

But there's something about engineered food that doesn't sit right. Am I
alone?

~~~
mywittyname
I think it's appropriate to be worried. But I look at it this way: we can't
make a lot of the foods we eat at home. I could not replicate white flour in
my home at all. Same goes for many other staple ingredients that we mindlessly
consume everyday (sugar, most grain meals like oat or cornmeal, most oils,
chocolate).

------
sfopdxnonstop
I've always liked veggie burgers. The best ones are as good as very good
hamburgers (in a different way). Some others are not so good.

------
rglover
[https://youtu.be/B3xY6Ffy_wE?t=81](https://youtu.be/B3xY6Ffy_wE?t=81)

------
YeGoblynQueenne
A Burger King hamburger sounds awful already. A Burger King hamburger with
_fake meat_ somehow manages to sounds even worse. It's not just shit food,
it's shit food with a fake flavour.

I mean, can't we just try to push real food, that looks, smells and tastes
like real food? It doesn't have to be meat. Just something that isn't made on
a production line, from ingredients you can't identify and in a way you don't
ever get to see?

~~~
smgoller
If you hate Burger King, more power to you. But it's not just about putting
real food out there, it's also about making it accessible to people who are
lower on resources like money and time. Apparently it's super hard to do that.
Even this rollout, which I applaud as getting healthier food in reach of more
people, can be financially daunting to some families at an extra dollar per
burger.

There's a food truck by my house that sells Impossible 2.0 burgers, and they
charge $4 extra for it over meat burgers. If I can get something even close to
that burger for half the price, I'm there, because it's that good.

~~~
YeGoblynQueenne
Yes, that's what I mean by "why can't we push real food?". Why can't we make
it cheap and fast for people who have no money or time? Why do those people
need to eat shit, in order to stay satiated (but not really fed)?

And if fake meat is more expensive than the real deal _and_ is not the real
deal, then how is it going to fix anything?

------
Simulacra
I’m kind of sad, I read the article and got all excited and went to my local
Burger King, but they didn’t have it.

------
badairfart
They're really decent tasting, and it's exciting as a gateway to
vegetarianism. I personally like veggie burgers that don't try to be meat
better, but there's still a market for meat-likes.

One thing that gets me though: They smell terrible. I've cooked them in my
house and have to air the place out afterwards. It's like an awful chemical
plant fart. I'll never cook one in my house again.

~~~
philipkglass
The Impossible Burger patty is not available in grocery stores yet. I suspect
that you are thinking of the Beyond Meat patties, which _are_ sold in grocery
stores and do smell unappealing while cooking.

------
tomc1985
If it's anything like Del Taco's partnership with Beyond Meat it's going to
taste like ass

------
Animats
Aw, but it's only available in St. Louis MO right now. Even though it's made
in Oakland CA.

------
homero
Carl's Jr already has the Beyond Meat. I can't wait for the lab grown meat
versions.

------
tracker1
As someone allergic to legumes, increasingly so each year, It really sucks
when I get whammied, more from protein sources than the oils, but all the
same. I don't have a problem with things like this as long as it's clearly
labelled as such. I sometimes think that fast food is the devil (Jack in the
box and Taco Bell in particular).

------
rconti
Wow, I had no idea Impossible Foods was HQ'd in Redwood City (my home).

------
chaosbutters
now can they slowly cut regular beef patties with veggie patties until
consumers notice? Maybe like 5-10%?

Most food companies have slowly started doing this to reduce, sugar, calories
and fat

~~~
Wheaties466
Why would they do that? the impossible burgers cost more. And besides the
cholesterol they have almost identical nutrition facts.

------
stevehiehn
Oh, Haha, I thought this was an April fools prank

------
diogenescynic
In Canada, they already have Beyond Meat patties.

------
sethbannon
Every modern society, looking back fifty years, condemns behavior once
considered normal (male-only voting, interracial marriage bans, jailing gays,
etc).

I'm convinced industrial animal agriculture will be one of the things today's
society is condemned for, fifty years from now.

~~~
cogman10
I don't think that will happen until we get both cheaper and better animal
product substitutes. Vegan substitutes usually fail at both which means they
are niche mid-upper class foods.

~~~
atomwaffel
Although that seems like it would hopefully fix itself as demand for vegan
substitutes increases. The Impossible Burger is a good example of a vegan
substitute that tastes uncannily like the thing it imitates.

As for cost, it seems intuitive that turning soy into a milk substitute would
be cheaper than feeding soy to a cow and milking it if both were done on the
same scale. On top of that, some countries tax substitutes higher than the
products they replace. In Germany, for example, non-dairy milk has a VAT rate
of 19% while dairy milk gets the reduced 7% rate for staple foods.

------
shmooth
Pretty sure I had a Burger King veggie burger about 20 years ago in Sydney

------
cat199
Really looking forward to an expedia-like ad featuring charleton heston

------
ams6110
"Tastes like a real Whopper" is a backhanded complement if I ever heard one.
One of the worst burgers you can buy.

~~~
andygates
"Tastes like this mass-market volume selling product" is a great way to sell a
product in volume to the masses.

------
hugg
Is it really better to make something "like" a meat product instead of just
making a good vegan/vegetarian product?

Since going lacto-ovo vegetarian myself, I just want tasty food, doesn't
matter if it's "like" a meat product.

~~~
54mf
Yes, it is better! Part of the goal is to provide a "gateway patty" to make it
easier for meat-eaters to reduce their consumption. Good for their health,
good for the environment, good for the animals.

(Also, I've been vegan for years and _love_ the Impossible burger.)

~~~
malvosenior
> _Good for their health_

It's definitely not clear that eating meat is bad for your health. In fact
there's plenty of evidence to suggest it's _good_ for you.

~~~
Touche
Also the impossible burger has about the same amount of calories as an 80%
lean ground beef burger, so it's no better as far as calories are concerned.

------
buckthundaz
These are simply highly-processed patties.

    
    
      Here’s the full ingredient list for the new recipe:
      Water, Soy Protein Concentrate, Coconut Oil, Sunflower 
      Oil, Natural Flavors, 2% or less of: Potato Protein, 
      Methylcellulose, Yeast Extract, Cultured Dextrose, Food 
      Starch Modified, Soy Leghemoglobin, Salt, Soy Protein 
      Isolate, Mixed Tocopherols (Vitamin E), Zinc Gluconate, 
      Thiamine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B1), Sodium Ascorbate 
      (Vitamin C), Niacin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin 
      B6), Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Vitamin B12. Contains: 
      Soy [0]
    

The vegetarian aspect is coincidence.

Bernays-level marketing though.

[0] -
[https://impossiblefoods.com/newrecipe/](https://impossiblefoods.com/newrecipe/)

------
Scoundreller
In terms of resources used in their production, a $6 burger expends more
resources than a $3 burger.

For those worried about the ethics of eating animals, I can understand the
extra $3.

For those just worried about other wastes (eg: losing 90% of the food value by
feeding it to cattle), this isn’t a magic bullet, for now. Those extra $3 went
into something else, whether it was a complicated energy-intense process, or
luxury vacations for the patent owners of the process.

A $4 beef burger where $1 went toward reforestation or some other project may
have the most impact over a $3 beef burger or $6 Impossible burger.

~~~
wlesieutre
> _In terms of resources used in their production, a $6 burger expends more
> resources than a $3 burger._

The meat/dairy industry in the US is subsidized to the tune of $38 billion,
there's a little more to it than "Costs more at the store so it must cost more
resources to make."

~~~
Scoundreller
Sounds like you’ve identified the real problem.

Though the other plant inputs in this burger are probably subsidized too.

Either we need to subsidize the impossible burger, or properly tax/desubsidize
agriculture.

~~~
wlesieutre
There's not a lot of hard data I can find on where the money goes, but the
table on Wikipedia (2004) indicates that we mostly subsidize livestock feed
grains, then cotton, wheat, and rice. Those four added up to 64%. Soybeans and
products come in 5th at 7.6%. Fruits and vegetables, pretty much zero.

Health-wise, it makes all the wrong things cheaper.

~~~
Scoundreller
What I want to see is what the pricing would be without the subsidies.

My guess is that the retail price impact would be tiny. Kinda like the
calculations where Walmart could double associate salaries by raising prices
by 6%.

Are we talking about a $5 steak becoming $5.09 or becoming $10?

------
gwbas1c
> Burger King’s chief marketing officer, Fernando Machado, said that in the
> company’s testing so far, customers and even employees had not been able to
> tell the difference between the old meaty Whopper and the new one.

Ugh. First: The vegetarians that I know don't like meat. So making a veggie
burger that tastes like the thing they don't like is just dumb.

Second: When I tasted an Impossible Burger, it was awful. It tasted like a
horrible veggie burger.

At the places that I've tried it, the staff usually apologize as I order it,
and warn me that I probably won't like it. They all tell me that the ordinary
veggie burger that they used to serve was better.

At that point, they hint that they were strong-armed by their distributor to
server it.

I personally reduced my meat consumption for environmental and health reasons,
but when I want a burger, I get a burger.

~~~
Pfhreak
I'm a vegetarian. I love meat. I'd eat meat all the time if I knew it didn't
cause horrifying suffering and environmental damage.

I've had the impossible burger (and liked it) as well, and on a highly mass
produced burger like the whopper I'm willing to bet it's close to the real
thing.

~~~
inciampati
Abstinence from meat seems like an extreme step if all you are concerned about
is environmental damage. Just eating meat at a "normal" frequency of two or
three times a week would be enough to mitigate much of the impact. True
organic agriculture is not possible without meat production as a side effect,
and this can only be replaced by nonrenewable synthetic fertilizers.

~~~
kevinh
I'm not the person you're responding to, but for me it's much easier to
abstain from meat than to moderate it to a certain amount of times per week.
It's not difficult for me to eat meat, but it would be if I were to half-
abstain.

~~~
Pfhreak
Our family buys a whole animal from a local farmer periodically. We evaluate
how the animal was raised, the sustainability of the farm, etc. to the best of
our ability. It's the one exception to my vegetarianism. It results in me
eating meat every now and again, but meat I know was treated humanely.

It does make it much easier to 'half-abstain' because it's not an exception I
can make easily on a whim at the grocery store. Buying a whole animal takes
some planning.

It's been an ideal combination for us -- higher quality meat, considerably
less meat consumed, and education to my kiddo about where meat comes from (and
what responsible looks like on a farm).

