
Men account for 76% of suicides in 2014 - yitchelle
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/nov/02/men-account-for-76-of-suicides-in-2014-says-charity
======
cryoshon
"The research appeared to reinforce the societal view that men don’t talk
about suicidal thoughts because they don’t want to worry family or friends."

Yeah, just another symptom of the whole "gotta be macho or else I'm not a real
man(tm)" phenomenon which kills men in more ways than just suicide. Men also
don't go to the doctor or confide in others for emotional support as much,
instead opting to "man up" directly into a shorter lifespan than women.

Women egg men into this by overtly preferring brutish unexpressiveness as it's
"more masculine", but at the end of the day it's mostly men bullying each
other starting from birth when this code is violated. Men are expected to
rarely, if ever, dip into their emotional support structure-- this makes it
largely useless. You're just expected to deal with it, repress those emotions,
and put on a brave face to carry on.

Aside from machismo and being discouraged from getting help from anyone, men
are frequently burdened by the responsibility to provide for their family,
which is considered their primary (only) purpose. If a man loses his job, it's
an affront to his worth as a human being. This is why middle aged men
frequently kill themselves when they lose their job or are having trouble
paying off their house; they suffer deeply and largely silently for perceived
failures of manhood. The suicidal want an escape from their suffering, and as
I've said before, there's really no way for men to ease their suffering in an
acceptable way. Drugs and whatever are helpful, but ultimately aren't enough.

~~~
jazzyk
All very true. Perhaps men are more suicidal because the deck is stacked
against them:

\- 93% of workers who died at work due to fatal accidents or violence were
male

\- 77% of males are genitally mutilated at birth (in the US), female
mutilation is illegal

\- 29% of male first-time offenders were sentenced to custody. For women, that
figure was 17%. Men have a 62% chance of being bailed, while for women that
figure is 80%

\- men are as likely as women to be victims of domestic abuse

\- men are more likely to be made redundant and less likely to be re-employed
than women

\- 90% of homeless are male

But I hear there is this "war on women" going on...

~~~
dsfyu404ed
"\- 93% of workers who died at work due to fatal accidents or violence were
male"

Violence in the workplace is negligible compared to occupational hazards.
Those killed by violence in the armed forces or law enforcement is most
certainly a "workplace hazard" so that can't be lumped in with workplace
violence.

Last I checked there weren't a lot of women working in close proximity to
heavy equipment and industrial machines when compared with men. If you're not
working somewhere dangerous you're less likely to be killed/injured on the
job.

\- 77% of males are genitally mutilated at birth (in the US), female
mutilation is illegal

The CDC stopped recommending circumcision because it didn't have probable
benefits, noticed bad results (increased chance of STD transmission) and
started recommending it again. You're fighting an uphill battle on that one

"\- 29% of male first-time offenders were sentenced to custody. For women,
that figure was 17%. Men have a 62% chance of being bailed, while for women
that figure is 80%"

Without information about the nature of the crimes this is useless. There's an
infinite supply of anecdotal evidence that law enforcement treats women less
poorly (more warnings, less piling on of charges) but that's not really
admissible evidence in this sort of numbers debate.

I generally agree with your implied conclusion but pick better supporting
evidence, when you have an unpopular opinion you need to be so convincing that
even the dumbest of the dumb don't feels quite right disagreeing.

~~~
jazzyk
Your point about working conditions being the reason for fatal accidents is
obviously correct, I thought it was kinda implied (wanted to keep it brief).

I was not discussing potential benefits (or lack thereof) of circumcision -
rather pointing out the unequal treatment of men (OK to mutilate without
consent) vs women (illegal to mutilate).

------
dracht
That sucks, but let us talk about the real social issues, like guys spreading
their legs on the metro and scantily clad female characters in video games.

~~~
EliRivers
Those issues do affect a lot more people. I certainly find them a bigger
hardship in my life than suicide.

------
joesmo
I don't know about the UK, but in the US talking to people about this is
likely to lead to losing your freedom (getting committed and losing other
rights such as gun ownership) so I'm not surprised that most people, men or
women, avoid talking about this entirely, and certainly never with a
"professional."

~~~
DanBC
Yes, people's fear of what MH treatment involves is one barrier that causes
avoidable harm.

Suicidal thinking covers a range of severity. In England you are unlikely to
be detained in hospital against your will (detained under section of the
mental health act; "sectioned") or admitted informally to a mental health
hospital for suicidal thinking unless you're at the most severe end.

This is partly because there is a lack of inpatient beds, but also because
inpatient treatment isn't suitable for many people and you should get better
results from outpatient treatment. (Although there are pressures there too).

There is anonymous support available from the Samaritans or CALMZone. Or you
could see your GP, who would probably (hopefully) refer you to your local
crisis team or MH gateway team.

------
DanBC
Suicidal thinking is _always_ significant. If you're having thoughts of
suicide please seek help.

Suicide in the UK is the leading cause of death in men under 45.

The cause of the disparity between male and female deaths is not fully
understood. We think it's a combination of lethality of method (men tend to
use methods that are harder to survive) and lack of male help seeking
(although we've recently seen a rise in death among men who are already known
to MH services). But there's probably other stuff going on too.

Suicide statistics in the UK come from the Office for National Statistics. So
they are accurate and robust and clearly defined, but it helps to know what
the definition is so you know where the stats are wrong. For example: a death
that is counted as suicide in someone over 15 may not be counted as suicide in
someone under 15. Methods come from ICD10 classifications.

[http://ons.gov.uk/ons/taxonomy/index.html?nscl=Suicide+Rates](http://ons.gov.uk/ons/taxonomy/index.html?nscl=Suicide+Rates)

[http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_395145.pdf](http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_395145.pdf)

Other information about suicide is listed in the National Confidential Inquiry
[http://www.bbmh.manchester.ac.uk/cmhs](http://www.bbmh.manchester.ac.uk/cmhs)

If you're in England there's a national suicide prevention strategy, and each
local authority should also have a local suicide prevention strategy.
[https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/suicide-
preventio...](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/suicide-prevention-
strategy-for-england)

CALMZone is a respected UK charity aiming to reduce male suicide. (Perhaps
similar to the (robustly named!) Australian group "Soften the Fuck Up"
[http://softenthefckup.spurprojects.org/](http://softenthefckup.spurprojects.org/)
) They've recently launched an interesting twitter based campaign.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10491576](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10491576)
[https://www.thecalmzone.net/2015/11/big-news-calm-and-
lynx-l...](https://www.thecalmzone.net/2015/11/big-news-calm-and-lynx-launch-
bigger-issues-campaign/)

------
mamon
According to [1] women make twice as much suicide attempts than men. The point
is, since women usually choose less brutal methods of committing suicide they
have much lower "success rate".

[1][http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/11/981112075159.ht...](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/11/981112075159.htm)

~~~
Lawtonfogle
The dead can't make another attempt. Personally, I find the 'who attempts
more' misleading because it counts a successful attempt as equal to an
unsuccessful attempt when trying to compare the problems.

Also, wouldn't a better metric be which group had more people who attempted at
least once, as that counts the same regardless if it was 1 successful attempt
or 10 failed ones.

------
tsotha
The women I've known who "attempted" suicide weren't really trying to kill
themselves. It was either attention seeking behavior or an attempt to punish
people in their social circle. IMO it's more a question of intent than method.

~~~
DanBC
That's not what the research shows. Your comment is strongly stigmatising of
people in psychiatric distress.

~~~
tsotha
And yet the numbers back my interpretation.

~~~
DanBC
No they don't. Show which numbers you mean.

~~~
tsotha
Did you read the title of this post?

~~~
DanBC
How does the title of this post support your unpleasant suggestion that women
who attempt suicide are not serious in their attempt (your use of scare quotes
is fucking disgusting, BTW) and were doing it to seek attention or to punish
people - it is this attention seeking / punishing behaviour that I'm trying to
get you to support with any evidence.

