
Ask HN: Coping with Loneliness - muzuq
Given the like natures of the people frequenting this board, I would imagine that I&#x27;m not alone (hah) when dealing with loneliness.<p>I&#x27;ve, over the past few years, grown more and more lonely with very little outside contact. My job does not interact with others much, topping out at the same few co-workers day in and day out.<p>I&#x27;ve only ever had a small group of friends, which has grown even more thread-bare with age.<p>Besides &quot;go meet people&quot; (how?), how do the fine people of HN deal with loneliness? Especially in the case your quite introverted? I like being alone, just not all the time, and not to the point of despairing loneliness.<p>I reach out, for fear that it envelops me.
======
ultrablue
I've been dealing with just this issue. I, too, am an introvert and require
time alone after socializing to 'recharge.' I had a fairly intense bout of
depression recently, I realized that it was in part due to do loneliness. So I
did some introspection and talked things over with a trusted advisor.

So some things to consider in no particular order:

Shame about being lonely drives people to feel more lonely. Don't let that
trap engulf you.

Take steps to explore your psyche and see if the roots of your loneliness are
based in issues like self-esteem. Don't take this lightly. It's easy to
dismiss, but if those forces are present in your life, they'll be very
difficult to see clearly.

Are you religious? Go to church (or sangha or whatever). Got an addiction? Go
to a 12 step group meeting. Like board games? Find folks that like to play and
hang out with them. Seek out opportunities to interact with people preferably
in the flesh, but online can work too.

Get a therapist. Or a spiritual guide. Whatever, as long as they understand
how the human psyche works, and that you're there to work. If that suits you.

Don't underestimate loneliness. There's a reason why our most feared
punishment is isolating people. Because it's terrible.

Learn to relish solitude. Don't let an idea about solitude trick you into
thinking that being alone is good.

Humans are social animals. Not being part of the herd represents an
existential threat to us. This is a major cause of suffering in our species.

Humans are solitary animals. Being part of the herd can be a major stressor
for us. This is a major cause of suffering in our species.

Best of luck.

~~~
roryisok
> Are you religious? Go to church (or sangha or whatever). Got an addiction?
> Go to a 12 step group meeting.

That escalated quickly!

> Like board games? Find folks that like to play and hang out with them.

This one is definitely good advice. Introverts find it easier to mix with
fellow introverts. I speak from experience. I can trace an awful lot of
friends back to various magic the gathering sessions or lan parties

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zapperdapper
Go to Bangkok. Find a Starbucks. Order your drink of choice. Within 30 minutes
you will be chatted up by a girl. Enjoy! p.s. This happened to me back in
2003. We were together for three years. Got addicted to the lifestyle in
Thailand - eating out with friends every night, going out to the islands,
beaches, diving, golf, malls etc. I worked remotely. My g/f had a lot of
friends too. It was a lot of fun. Beats eating dinner alone in front of the TV
- which was my life before going there. Seriously though, if you want to
change your life go to Thailand.

~~~
companyhen
I was in Thailand for 3+ months (Jan to April) and worked in coffee shops and
co-working spaces M-F usually 10-5 and never was approached by a girl at a
coffee shop. Was my first time outside North America. I had good success
dating there on Tinder though! I'd actually get daily matches there, where
back in the US I get none. The only issue I had was sometimes the girl I met
could type English well, but had trouble with speaking so it was hard to have
a convo past hello and how are you when we met in person.

Overall, I've never been to a place where it was easier to meet new people and
make new friends. I liked Chiang Mai more than Bangkok, but they're definitely
two of my favorite cities ever. Koh Lanta is also a paradise.

I'm planning to go back in January again. The lifestyle there is perfect for
me at this point in my life (28 year old web developer).

Some pics from my trip:
[https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B45Al_n9xsrna25kZ0RFdXBOb0...](https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B45Al_n9xsrna25kZ0RFdXBOb0k)

~~~
hackerboos
Thailand's a notoriously conservative country despite its international
reputation.

Far more likely to get chatted up in the West than there.

------
aspyct
I find going back to nature every now and then is a nice band-aid on my
solitude wound. I'm still alone, mind you, but natured is filled with amazing
things you can look at, focus on.

Trekking has become a major part of my life in the recent years. It allowed me
to discover myself in more details, how my mind works. I also briefly met
people along the way, and slowly realised that their mind worked the same kind
of way. They were travelling alone too, for most of them. Yet we were
instantly friends. Didn't keep in touch, because that's life, but it's
alright.

Try this: take a weekend for yourself, away from civilisation. Take a tent, go
get lost in the woods (well, not actually lost), spend the night. Forget about
your phone, your emails. Just tell one trustworthy person where you go,
roughly, just in case.

Take that time look at the trees, the insects, the clouds, the Earth. Maybe
you'll see a fox, maybe fireflies, maybe you'll only hear birds.

And if you're not willing to spend a night just yet, then wake up early, and
be there at sunrise. Have a breakfast, have a lunch. Walk, or not, whatever
works for you, but just take your time.

Then stop for a moment. Anchor yourself to the ground. Why not walk barefoot?
Imagine your feet are rooted deep down into the earth, all the way down to the
burning core. Feel the wind on your skin, hear the birds in the distance, see
the trees shiver in the wind, enjoy the silence.

I'm afraid I haven't yet found a cure for loneliness myself. But this above,
my friend, is what makes my life worth living!

Good luck, you'll see better days :)

------
ThrustVectoring
Don't cope with it - fix the problem. Emotions are designed to tell you
important facts about the word. Pain tells you that there's ongoing physical
harm that you ought to avoid, anger tells you that you're in an appropriate
position to start or threaten to start a physical fight, grief tells you that
you temporarily need to get the support of the tribe as you adjust to your
loss, and so forth.

What loneliness tells you is that you haven't gotten the sort of stimuli you'd
expect out of having a position in a social group. Experiencing it sucks
because this is the sort of thing that is extraordinarily dangerous.

So, how do you get "I am part of a larger group that accepts me" signals? Go
and do stuff. If you're not naturally inclined to stay on top of things, get
organized about it. Texting/IMing your friends/acquaintances is a good choice.
Volunteering somewhere could also help. Regular hobbies are great - I do
social dancing. Swipe on a few Tinder profiles and see if you can strike up a
conversation. It really doesn't matter _what_ you do, so long as you use your
planning faculties and organization to compensate for your lack of
socialization drive.

~~~
1337biz
>Swipe on a few Tinder profiles and see if you can strike up a conversation.

I would strongly advice against that. Research has shown that the use of
Tinder decreases the self-worthyness of in particular male users.

~~~
J-dawg
I strongly agree with this. Internet dating generally has become a toxic
experience for men. It definitely increased my feelings of loneliness.

Anyone who is already lonely or lacking self-esteem should stay well away.

~~~
le-mark
I'm not familiar with the current generation of dating apps, but I met my wife
on plentyoffish a few years ago. I also was a lonely introvert and provide my
experience as an example to the OP:

I was in a very similar situation to the OP, an introvert who's career and
interest led to a state of near constant solitude. I lived this way for over
10 years. I had a weekly routine; weekend was going to the store and
househould maintenance, weekdays were going to work and fiddling with side
projects after work. I would visit family every few months. But otherwise I
was entirely alone. I feel that I am a true introvert, and relished it for few
years, but it ground on me. Later I realized that I could die and no one would
know for weeks. This was profoundly saddening to me.

I used online dating off and on for years with no success, and a lot of
frustration as the parent indicates. It can be crushing to message 20 women
and get zero responses. Over the years I worked on tweaking a message (a/b
testing essentially) to see what would get responses, got some flattering
photos to use. Then after I started getting some responses, and going on a few
dates, still nothing. At one point I gave up for good, decided I was asexual
and unlovable, and resolved to live out my life alone.

I won't say I was ever depressed, I do have a melancholy disposition. I
experienced one episode of real depression for maybe a day, it was a dark pit,
I couldn't stand to live. Luckily it only lasted a day, and never returned.
That episode showed me how bad depression can really be. Not a constant state
of being down or blue, but grinding darkness that makes your own skin
unbearable. It was terrifying.

What drove me out of all this was series of illnesses with my parents. I had
always imagined I'd get married have kids, but had zero success dating. I
realized if I ever had kids, they wouldn't know my parents if I didn't act. So
I got back on the horse, systematically used plentyoffish to date a lot (edit;
well, less than 10 so not a lot) of girls and eventually met my wife and we
have two kids.

Nowadays, I'm happier than I've ever been, but things aren't perfect. Being
married is hard, particularly since my wife and I were both older when we met
and "set in our ways". She's not the easiest person to live and neither am I.
Our kids are a joy though. I get zero alone time now, which also grates on me.
I REALLY need it, and my spouse is not sympathetic.

My wife says about herself "I was lonely wierdo, until I met you, now I'm not
lonely, just wierd", which also applies to me, which amuses us.

Anyway all that's my .02, you're not alone, and that was my path.

~~~
J-dawg
Thanks for sharing your story, it was nice to read. It's good to have a
counter-example to prove that people can and do meet their spouses online.

I tried online dating about 7 years ago and found it ok, had a few interesting
dates but nothing special. I then met my wife (offline) who I thought was my
soulmate.

After a few years she left me, and I decided to try online dating again. It
feels very different. The women have this incredible sense of entitlement. I
don't really blame them, apparently they receive so many messages that it's
impossible to reply to them all. It's common to see something like: "If you're
just going to say 'hi' don't bother messaging me.", but you can also waste a
lot of time writing thoughtful opening messages that just get ignored. It's a
painful daily reminder of exactly where you fit in the pecking order, which is
why I wouldn't recommend it to someone who is already lonely.

It's hard to pin down exactly what has changed in between the 2 times I tried
online dating. But I don't remember it being such a challenge just to get
someone to reply to me.

~~~
1337biz
I would even add that online dating has substantially led to a decline of the
male 'market value'. Somehow all my friends who got to know their girlfriends
offline made in my view better choices than those who meet online. But maybe
it is also based on their character, ie that they are more extroverted and
willing to go for someone if they see someone they like.

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hluska
If you're anywhere near Regina, Canada, my name is Greg and my email is in my
profile. I'll take you out and introduce you to the finest people I know.

That aside, you've received some excellent advice in this thread. I won't
reiterate any of it. Instead, I just want to say that you're very brave to
come here and make a post like that.

I wish you the absolute best. Feel free to email me if I can be of any help.

~~~
roryisok
There should be an app that's like tinder for meeting other like minded
people. Like when you move to Regina, Canada and see that there's an awesome
guy called Greg who will introduce you to cool people

------
mathgenius
Two more ideas from me:

1) Toastmasters. This is like alcoholics anonymous for people that are
addicted to shyness. And very likely there will be some people there that are
even more quiet and introverted than you are.

2) Social dancing. I'm guessing you are male, in which case you will be in
high demand. Even if you are overweight & ugly as sin, if you can keep a beat
then the girls are gonna want some. If you are as intelligent as you sound
then this is also a big plus: the smart people end up being the best dancers.
And it's not about talking or being interesting, it's about the mechanics of
space and time (physics and music). I would recommend tango: this is where all
the real nerds end up.

Getting over the fear is not going to happen on its own. Instead I would
suggest finding something where you are more excited than afraid.

~~~
muzuq
It seems like dancing is a super popular suggestion.

I keep saying to myself that I'd be no good and it'd be embarassing, not to
mention I'm not (never have been) a "dancer" but I'm thinking this swarm
intellect might have a point... And perhaps I should seriously consider
signing up for a beginner dance class.

Any reason why Tango is where the nerds end up?

~~~
SergeAx
Here's ~5 years tango dancer @ HN :) From where I am now tango actually seems
an unnatural choice for nerds. Of all the social dances tango is one of the
most intimate in terms of personal space, which makes any nerd nervous and
clumsy. On the other hand, it seems like one of the least physically demanding
- check out Buenos-Aires 70+ grandpas on YouTube. I think it is a combination
of two: crave for intimacy plus actual ability to imagine oneself as a hero of
those videoclips, as opposed to fit and dexterous lads from swing and boogie-
woogie, or half-naked machos from salsa, kizomba and bachata :)

There is also a point of general availability. When you check out your typical
dance studio around the corner, there are salsa, hustle, swing and tango. Of
those aforementioned tango seems most promising from romantic point of view.

~~~
mathgenius
Just to widen the definition of nerd a little: doctors, engineers, artists,
scientists, architects... There seems to be alot of deeply intelligent & smart
people in Tango.

------
fern12
I'm an introvert. There's a saying, "You're never alone with a good book." For
me, that's certainly the case. If you're not a bookworm, try audiobooks.

Also, I love dogs (probably more than most people). They're loyal, do not
judge (unless you have a treat), and live in the moment - what more could one
ask for?:) Animals can provide a lot of companionship.

~~~
muzuq
My book shelves are overflowing :)

I agree, never alone with a good book. But, having spent weeks at a time
reading 5+ hours a day, it can become lonely in itself.

A doggo might be a good choice

~~~
guy_c
Friends & I 'invented' unsociable socializing. At the weekend we'd sometimes
meet in a coffeeshop, bring our books and just read. Stopping occasionally for
a chat & refilling the coffee, but the main focus was reading.

Was perfect way to spend an afternoon without draining too much energy.

~~~
muzuq
That sounds absolutely wonderful actually

------
monster_group
You are wise to seek out advise on this. Loneliness is a terrible thing that
can have very serious consequences like depression. Lot of comments here are
suggesting activities like dancing etc. There is no harm in doing these
activities but you have to do them because they interest you and you enjoy
doing them. If you try to do things just to meet people, you will surely meet
people but they will not become your friends because you have different
interests/ personalities and have less in common with them. Do things that you
like (sports, music, video games etc.) and seek out people who do those
things. You will make friends more easily. Also, do not disregard friends that
you made in school/college. They can be lifelong friends. If you have lost
contact with them, seek out contact again. If you are religious, go to your
church/temple/mosque. Sense of community, belonging and socialization are some
of the biggest benefits of religion. It is likely to alleviate loneliness.

------
navbaker
I am extremely introverted, but one of the social activities I've found that
actually DOESN'T drain me is going to game nights at my local game stores.
Most stores have something going on every night, ranging from standard issue
board games to RPGs to miniatures tabletop games. It's amazingly easy to make
friends when you're all engrossed in whatever setting you're gaming in!

~~~
notheguyouthink
Do these types of events have spectator focused areas? Eg, I'm a bit of a
gamer _(not much these days)_ , but frankly tabletop/etc doesn't really
interest me. Despite that, the idea of going and watching the crowd, almost
like a coffee shop, sounds really enjoyable.

Like a coffee shop with the added bonus of everyone having similar interests.
Who knows, the wife and I may make some friends too, or take part.

However, I'm asking because I don't want to go there and feel obligated to
partake in some event/thing. Lowkey with benefits is what interests me.
Thoughts?

~~~
navbaker
Usually there isn't a spectator area per se, but spectators are always
welcome. Most people are very excited to answer questions about their game of
choice, strategy, what to buy to get in to the game, etc. Trust me, I'm well
aware of how intimidating it is to walk in somewhere you haven't been before
for a game you may not have played before, but once you mention you're new and
interested, you'll be amazed at how welcome most people will make you feel.
Most game stores also have demo sets of whatever game you're watching so you
can test drive before you buy.

------
pasbesoin
I've been struggling to begin rehabilitating and changing my home environment.

I went through hell with a series of offensively noisy and aggressively
inconsiderate neighbors. So, I avoided home. And I didn't invite people over.
And, as the months wore into years, my home took on aspects of neglect.

I was "trapped" at first by some circumstances I didn't deal with well. Then
more thoroughly by the self-reinforcing nature of this decline.

Basically, if I'm not comfortable at home, I do not have people over. I lose a
big part of my control over my interactions as well as my ability to
reciprocate.

Further, since these circumstances stress me so, I don't feel well about
myself -- including my inability to more effectively deal with the situation
-- and this also causes me to engage less.

And as this is self-reinforcing, so is the attendant, resultant loneliness.

When I do get away from it, I enjoy interacting with people and seem to do
reasonably well at it. Well, the "cool" people are still too self-absorbed to
accept me. Fuck them -- a lesson too long in learning.

I'm not saying I have "the answer." But my intuition, of many years now, has
not changed: I need to get the hell out of here and to somewhere I'm simply
more happy and at peace with myself.

Otherwise, half my mind is always at least subconsciously worrying about the
monster behind the door. Like neighbors with sub-woofers who would rattle my
windows for hours on end.

~~~
jansho
That's an awful spiral. Correct me if I've misunderstood, but this is caused
by bad neighbours? If this is really the root, take the leap and move out!
Perhaps you can try flat-sharing next.

I live in a rural town, which I love (courtesy to introversion) but sometimes
it can get lonely, and yes, that self-reinforcing spiral then happens. I try
to go to tech events in big cities at least once a month so I'm reminded that
I 'belong' to this community, even though most of the time I don't interact
very much. (And that's ok too, be comfortable with who you are! :)) Seems to
be working, that and monthly meetups with old friends and nurturing an
appreciation of my own company. This is just me though - try different things
so that you can find which suit you best. Chin up!

------
nyrulez
Some options that I have tried and have helped:

\- Try Meetup.com. Endless options there. Don't be afraid to be awkward. Read
about social skills and practice them.

\- Be a better friend and initiate contact with people you know - don't wait
for them.

\- Also make a list of all people/friends you know local or non-local. Refer
to that list and keep in touch. This is harder than it looks but is important.
I was surprised how many folks I had a good connection with but did a sucky
job of keeping in touch with.

\- Attend workshops, classes etc where you have the chance to meet others in a
like minded setting. Especially overnight ones. There are always group events
happening in urban environments. Seek them out.

\- This is going to sound dumb - but try to interact with people via social
networks. It teaches you a bit of initiative and also leads to in person
quality time in some cases. But be careful that you don't get swallowed by it.

\- Have something interesting at your home - like board games, gaming , good
list of movies to watch. That way you can feel comfortable inviting people
over to hang out at your place and have a good time. It feels nice to say "I
have a really cool board game - why don't you guys come over and let's have
some fun, along with some beer/drinks"

\- Be interesting - if you are passionate about 1 or more interesting topics
outside work, and talk about it with folks you meet, they will remember you.
It could be AI, self-improvement, meditation/mindfulness, running, fitness,
music and so on. But learn to talk about your passion intelligently. It leaves
a mark.

~~~
muzuq
Solid advice, thanks.

As for some of your suggestions, it's not that I have a laundry list of out-
of-touch friends. I keep in touch with every one of my good friends from High
School and College. The problem is, that list is about | | <\- that big. Also,
I removed myself from all social networks (and have read a number of articles
linking FB usage with depression, which I dont need more of).

Thank-you.

~~~
1337biz
> Also, I removed myself from all social networks

Problematic. For many people these are the only ways they are organizing
activities together. It's all about how you use them...

~~~
sotojuan
As much as HN loves to hate on Facebook, it has its uses. I can't imagine it
not hurting OP's chances at meeting new people.

------
scotty79
Talk about your loneliness with anonymous strangers in the chatrooms.
Reiterate your pain points to them. Never reveal your identity, never meet
them.

You are not looking to make a connection.

The goal is to get bored with what ails you. After telling about why you feel
bad 20 times to 20 different people your brain gets bored with this narrative.
Then it moves on to more interesting things and you stop feeling bad.

This strategy helped me get over post rejection loneliness in few short
months.

Remember, loneliness is not being alone. It's feeling bad about it.

~~~
nils-m-holm
> Remember, loneliness is not being alone. It's feeling bad about it.

I agree with the first part, but not with the second.

IMO, loneliness is not feeling bad _about_ being alone, it is suffering _from_
being alone. All four combinations of alone/lonely are more or less common.

Personally, I find the "not alone/lonely" combination hardest to take: feeling
alone among people. Realizing that made me spend more time on my own and being
less lonely as a consequence. Still, nothing helps when really feeling lonely,
except meeting someone who does not make you feel even more lonely.

~~~
scotty79
You are right. "Suffering from it." is much better way of describing it than
"Feeling bad about it."

------
NHern031
I was too feeling lonely not long ago after losing my partner of many years. I
had fallen into a pretty bad state and just felt more alone with ever passing
day. After my grieving I knew something had to be done and I decided to choose
between two things I've always wanted to do, boxing and salsa dancing. I
eventually enrolled in a boxing academy and love it. My coach is a great man,
my fellow sparing partners are almost like family now. I have made a
connection with these people I never imagined I would have. I suggest you
think of something you've always wanted to do and just DO IT.

Bonus: I also look and feel great now thanks to working out.

------
contingencies
I have moved a lot during my career (Oz/China/Thailand/Europe/US, 8+ cities,
now 35) and frequently that meant arriving in a new country or city with zero
friends, family or support network and making do, so consider myself well
schooled in this problem.

The de-facto approach is drinking. Drinking is a great way to meet people but
it is often skewed toward young to middle aged people without family so can
get old/tired/irritating/self-destructive. The good thing is it's easily
available all the time and there's a ton of venues, so if you don't like one
just browse for another.

As others have said there is no substitute for social groups... there are many
options here. One good one is dancing, there are quite a few cool social dance
groups in many cities now, swing/salsa/tango/etc, and in general talent is
firmly not required! The younger me would have said it's not my thing, but now
that I'm in my mid 30s (and married with kid) I think it's an awesome scene
and regret never getting in to it! Seriously, check this stuff out.

There are also a few good team water sports with big social elements .. things
like sailing, rowing, outrigging, dragon boating. Sailing is good because you
can do the social side but also get some self time, while being part of a
wider community. If you want more team stuff, you can sail larger vessels
where it's total commitment. The other options (paddling style) are pretty
full on social and may be a bit much, depending on your personality.

~~~
seales
Would you mind sharing how you managed to move so much as well as its impact
on your career?

~~~
contingencies
Skipped university. Made my own opportunities where there were none otherwise.
Favoured cheap places. My career had very little to do with where I was
physically.

------
Beamer92
Pick up a sport/hobby with a social aspect. Many cities (I'm assuming you live
in a populated area) have City League sports you can simply sign up for, pay a
fee, then get put on a team.

You can join a low level (or high level if you're competitive) dodgeball team,
or soccer, or basically whatever strikes your fancy, then meet some new
friends. It also gets you out of the house once a week or more with some new
faces.

~~~
muzuq
Thanks for the ideas. I've thought about it, but I.. I hate sports. I'll poke
around for some non-sport related hobby groups, perhaps.

~~~
passivepinetree
To add to the GP: you might consider trying ultimate frisbee. The barrier to
entry for a city league is really low (little athletic ability and no domain
knowledge required) and many players tend to be technical people: I know
several software devs who play frequently. In addition, the community is the
most welcoming and least disparaging I've ever seen in any organization, bar
none.

If you're really really not into athletic pursuits, I would second meetup.com
for your interests. You also might check to see if your city has any
bars/restaurants focused around board games or trivia. Those are also great
for meeting new friends.

------
jansho
Love for solitude is a great gift, I think. I used to be stuck between
introversion and extroversion; on one hand I did things better on my own, on
the other I sought validation from others, all the time. Guilt only amplified
this problem. It was pretty toxic, and took many years to sort out .. it's
only recently that I can feel 'substantial' enough to enjoy my own company. (I
feel that this is actually an illusion, but a much needed one to save my own
sanity!)

But you're right; we're social animals and will never get away with complete
solitude. It sounds that you do enjoy your own company, but need the
occasional 'break' from yourself. You mentioned that you have a handful of
friends? Focus on them, even though you may feel that it's tedious.

I know that "going out and meet new people" is cliche but it's so true that
it's a great first step. Try meetup.com to find out events that you might be
interested in. Don't just go for tech, try a new crazy thing, oh and hiking ;)
Sunning your face and relaxing your eyes over vast expanses can do wonders to
the soul, I find.

------
kevindeasis
Find a hobby that you want to do more frequently in a week. A hobby that
allows you to have lots of people around you that you will see more
frequently, but not necessarily forces you to talk to them.

This is the first few part of the friendship formula. Proximity and frequency.

~~~
jogjayr
+1 To that I would add that consistency is key in forming relationships at
activities. If you show up consistently for the same activity without skipping
sessions, you automatically become part of the "core group". People new to the
group will now look to you for guidance. This will ensure that a) people come
and talk to you and b) you are forced to talk to them and help them, and in
doing so you'll forget about your own hangups c) your consistency instills
confidence in others that building a relationship with you is worth their
while

I've observed this in my own attendance at things like weekly pick-up sports
games, organized leagues etc. Players who show up week after week are just as
well-regarded as more-skilled, but less regular players.

------
tenken
a hobby, i usually do martial arts in a class environment. also for example
consider getting a sociable pet such as a dog, bearded dragon, etc.

with a sociable pet you get company at home; and for instance with a dog there
are usually local dog parks where fellow owners _eventually_ meet eachother
and while not becoming friends always can be a social event with your peers.

------
itbeho
I still struggle with loneliness from time to time. A sporting activity can
help. In my case, I started sailing. I couldn't afford a boat of my own at the
time (1994, I couldn't afford much of anything then to be honest), but the
local yacht club is volunteer oriented and easy to join. I was able to sail
club boats and that made it easy to interact with other people with a similar
interest. The volunteer aspect meant I was frequently paired up with someone
else helping out with club functions. Obviously it doesn't have to be sailing,
but getting outdoors with an activity that involves teamwork can really help.

------
hpcjoe
Also an introvert to some degree, and I've worked hard at overcoming this so I
am indistinguishable from an extrovert. Working in front facing customer
support, sales, marketing, management, fund raising ... yeah ... introvert is
a bit harder for those things. So I had to adapt.

I've been working out at a gym for many years (semi-social, makes easy
conversations possible with like minded people, though you have to worry about
people with ear-buds whom don't want to be disturbed), karate (very social,
good strong local friend group now ... go to dinner with them, go to events
with them, all help each other).

I had in the past done various meetups (many years ago), to get conversations
going.

I recommend getting a nice friendly dog; labrador breeds are great. I have a
Chesapeake Bay retriever mix as as a rescue ... wonderful companion, and
excellent conversation starter when I walk him. Very friendly, rarely barks
... he's a rescue, and had a terrible life before we adopted him.

The dog part is tremendously helpful BTW. When my wife and daughter are out, I
can sit on my couch reading a book, and he'll hop up next to me for comfort.
I'll talk to him, and happily, most of the time he doesn't answer ... though
he knows enough words (treat, cheese, bone, walk, trot, outside, play), that
I'm rarely really ever alone.

------
mikestew
Find a hobby or pursue the ones you’ve got. No, not the React/node.js meetup,
ya dork, something not tech related. Here are the places or hobbies I frequent
where I could make new friends if I wanted to: 1\. Local animal shelter. They
always need someone to walk dogs. Personally I’m married, but were I single
and looking for someone (in my case, female), oh man, it makes a great filter
if you like animals. And the asshole ratio of folks I’ve met at animals is
pretty darned low. On a related note, many in these comments suggest a pet.
Know that a pet, especially a dog, is a lot of time and responsibility, and
not to be taken lightly. Where do you all those animals at the animal shelter
come from? Not a “child” level of responsibility, but my dogs take up a
substantial part of my day.

2\. Bluegrass jam, or any casual music circle thing. The people you meet are
also people you might spend a weekend camping with because you end up at music
festivals together. Gotta learn an instrument, though. And one one will
occasionally run into the “gotta be better than everyone else and make sure
they know it” asshole, but rarely. Usually a pretty mellow bunch, and the good
ones let their playing, not their mouth, speak for their skills.

3\. Some kind of sport, like running or cycling, or even beach volleyball I
guess. Caution: could be assholes a’plenty if you get in the wrong group. I
prefer runners, as they’re generally a more laid back group. Try trail running
if you like it so laid back you’ll smell pot smoke before a race.

Those are the three things I regularly participate in where me might meet
people (including a romantic partner), and generally nice people at that.
Extrapolate to your own tastes and interests.

------
taternuts
I almost tried accept and live with my loneliness for years as I thought I
would need practice later on in life. It actually wasn't _all_ that bad, but
I'm probably not a normal person. What got me a bit out of my shell was going
out on dates from tinder or other dating platforms, and really you should
venture into it as "I'd love to go to {XYZ} and check it out, I just feel
weird (tons of anxiety) going by myself. It'd be great to just meet someone
else there and try to enjoy the place together, regardless of whether or not
it'll go anywhere relationship-wise."

I find it still really hard to make male friends as a male. I've even gotten
numbers from other guys who I've met at a bar and had a blast with all night,
but it's still just a little bit weird to call the guy afterwards. In order to
make male friends, I think it takes a shared interest in something and
repetition. Maybe through a meetup or a weekly rec-league dodgeball game or
something that you wouldn't hate dragging yourself to.

Making that first step _is_ tough though. Good thing is that it's usually the
toughest.

------
maxsavin
The big thing I've learned is that loneliness is simply your brain signaling
you to go meet people - it's natural and there's nothing wrong with it.
Meeting people is hard though - but there are plenty of ways to do it,
especially now with internet. It does require a set of skills, though, just
like everything else. I've found therapy can really help develop and tune
them.

------
mixmastamyk
When I was younger and needed to get out more I took salsa dancing classes in
large groups for a year or two. It's good exercise, great music, and gives you
an excuse to go out and interact with real people outside the computer.

There's an interesting lesson in there as well about pair dancing, in that you
can have wildly different experiences with each partner, similar to
relationships.

------
mlsarecmg
Having had a similar phase in my life, the thing that helped me was philosophy
and esoteric psychology. Especially:
[http://gnosticteachings.org/courses/gnostic-
meditation.html](http://gnosticteachings.org/courses/gnostic-meditation.html)

People speak about thoughts, emotions and actions as if they knew what they
are or how they are gestated. "I AM mad!", "Because I THOUGHT that ...", "I do
FEEL alone", etc.

They think they are behind their thoughts, emotions and actions, that they ARE
what they think, feel and do, and nothing could be further from the truth and
it is the easiest thing in the world to evaluate it because they couldn't stop
thinking for a minute even if their life depended on it.

And this is the gravest error we commit, to believe we are in conscious
control and therefore solving problems seems abstract or even impossible to
us. As they've said in older times "if you know not that you are asleep, you
cannot wake."

See once for yourself the reality of how unconscious awareness leads to chains
of thoughts running completely on their own without the involvement of will or
participation, leading to mechanical emotions and mechanical action.

See this happening and something is evoked, the capacity to act against
yourself or the inner urge that drives you to behave in a certain way, the
unconscious machine that merely reacts to impressions outside and inside. It
becomes possible to act free of constraints where otherwise you would merely
re-act according to how you think or feel or are accustomed to.

Philosophy called it the paradox of free will. From there on problems actually
can be solved because inner change is possible and feasible. If you understand
that the outside is merely the reflection of your inner state, everything can
change radically.

------
8bitpimp
I spent around 5 years crippled by this very issue, to the point where I was
so lonely I was terrified of any social contact, and close to not wanting to
continue. It took just as long to 'recover' from this very real issue. You are
in no way alone with this issue, and I think is really felt throughout the IT
industry.

The way I am learning to overcome my loneliness and social anxiety issues, is
be forcing myself to go out with people when I am invited, and to exercise
(perhaps to the extreme) with cycling, climbing, swimming, running, etc.

Remember however that loneliness is not something that anyone else can solve
other then yourself. You may need to change your situation, and surround
yourself with people similar to yourself, and understanding kind people if
possible.

As others have said loneliness is a problem of situation, and lack of contact
with others. Your absolutely doing the right thing by reaching out and talking
about it however!

------
drakonka
I'm like you - an introvert who likes being alone, just not all the time. And
sometimes I just feel like hanging out with some new friends. I think
_meeting_ people isn't the primary problem, though - I just don't put in the
effort to stay in touch with the people I do meet because most of the time I
don't crave outside company or conversation. So when I do feel like being
social, the connection is just not there - that is on me.

I recently joined a hiking group on Meetup.com and it looks promising. Being
out in nature with other people who enjoy being out in nature, being active,
seems like a good way to meet new people in a more relaxed setting (that is,
not a loud bar or work event). Then the onus will be on me to stay in touch
with at least a couple of them, but even if I don't there will always be the
next hike where we could catch up.

------
tixocloud
The one thing that really helped me with loneliness was when I started
chanting and practicing Buddhism. It was in fact the sole reason why I started
practicing in the first place. It's been a long journey and although I would
still consider myself an introvert, it has broadened my social network
significantly. I do spend time alone occasionally but I have a family and a
network of friends.

I believe human relationships and social interaction are the key to happiness
and the lack of it is a major source of suffering. However, at the same time,
we also have our individual characteristics that define us. Balancing both our
need to be an individual and our need to be social relates to being in harmony
with life.

I try to help as many people as I can feel less lonely so I'm happy to have a
chat if you'd like.

------
lhuser123
Thanks for this question. I think many people will be curious about the
comments here.

In my case, I have stopped thinking about it. Admittedly, some days it's not
so easy, but the next day it's gone. What can I say. Some people like parties,
others like strange things, and we like to be alone.

~~~
muzuq
I'm very happy to see such a lively, helpful discussion sparked from my post.

May I ask what you do on the days that it is bothering you? Do you just keep
going until it doesnt bother you?

I find that I can do this, and have been doing this. It's just lately... The
days I'm stuck living and feeling my loneliness outweigh the days I forget
about it.

~~~
lhuser123
That's a good question. I have been thinking a lot about it to try to give you
an honest answer. Or maybe, give myself an answer.

As always, is complicated. Probably two major things happening. First, years
of practice. Second, a new hobby/hope.

For years of practice, what I mean is, for example what I learned about myself
while talking to a therapist. Also techniques from books, blogs, videos, etc.
More interesting, and probably more important is what I have learn about how
the mind works. That really helps.

The hobby/hope/purpose or whatever they want a call it, it's very helpful.
I'll even say it's necessary. It has to be big, like the coolest thing ever.
To make you wake up every morning thinking about it. Many of the activities
recommended here could be a good option, but only if they would help you
achieve that cool thing you like.

------
malux85
Send me an email and I'll invite you to our "Solo Founders" slack channel,
it's not super active, but if you're feeling lonely or just wanna chat, it's
nice to have a few regulars to reach out to.

We all help each other, which can be handy to bounce tech problems off too

~~~
muzuq
Thank-you for your offer, might just have to take you up on it!

------
gaspoda
Forget about introversion vs extraversion. Its waste of time. Learn about
attachement theory.

~~~
J-dawg
> _Forget about introversion vs extraversion. Its waste of time._

What makes you say that? I ask because I've also become slightly sceptical of
the idea. Is there real, empirical evidence for people being one or the other?

I remember hearing someone on a podcast (I think it was Ramit Sethi) talking
about "Introvert Porn", where he's saying there's all this stuff online
basically reassuring introverts that it's part of who they are and there's no
point trying to change. The reality is that (in his opinion) social skills can
be learned, and social interaction becomes less tiring when your social skills
are better.

I'd love to hear any arguments for or against the introvert vs. extrovert
theory, because I feel like I'm still making up my mind. I've always _felt_
like an introvert, but I'd prefer to think of it as something that's in my
power to change.

~~~
maxsavin
Introversion and extroversion is really a scale, but most people use it in a
binary way. Plus, it varies by the context.

It has also taken on it's own social meaning. For example, shyness is often
associated with introversion and that may not be the right way to look at it.

~~~
J-dawg
> _Plus, it varies by the context_

I guess this is the core of my question. How much is something allowed to vary
by context before it's basically rendered meaningless as an idea?

------
Mz
The two easiest/best ways to establish strong social connections are 1) a
shared interest and 2) being introduced by a mutual friend/acquaintance.

You could look for groups to participate in that involve some established
interest of you, such as a book club. You could also put the word out that you
are looking to widen your social circle and find some means to signal to
existing acquaintances that you would appreciate it if they kept you in mind
or pointed you in the right direction. Just letting people know you are open
to introductions can help foster them. Introverts are often basically giving
off "Go away!" signals without really being aware of it.

------
GoodDreams
I was part of a caring community for years. When Trump was nominated they
decided that in order to support women men must be silent. It's been a lonely
year. It's hard to make friends when you don't drink or care about sports.

------
qxzw
-"go meet people" (how?)-

TLDR: Don't overthink it, just start with smalltalk.

Go to gym. Work out, simply talk to people. Go to a bar. Have a drink, simply
talk to people. Look up amateur sport activities in your area (hiking,
trekking, whatever). Join, participate. Simply talk to people. Why do I keep
saying 'simply talk'? Because in the end it _is_ really simple. Loneliness is
consequence of overthinking. If you don't feel confident, work on your image a
bit. Some muscle mass and 'cool clothes' can do wonders (I know it sounds
superficial, but hey it's truth).

------
sjg007
I remember being very very lonely. It took a long time to accept the emotion
as a transient feeling instead of a permanent state of being.

You have to put yourself out there and do the work. That means make friends or
even friends of friends. Find a hobby? Join a coed team sport (softball?)...
bowling league? meet ups? Take a cooking class... anything with other people
and in some subject you would enjoy.

You can accept the emotion and recognize it for what it is as a passive
observer. Take things one day at a time.

------
guy_c
Can you give some more details of how you currently spend your time? Live in a
city? How many hours do you work? How long is your commute? Do you work
weekends? Live alone?

~~~
muzuq
Work (enjoy what I do) ~40 hours/week. Commute is about 20 minutes one-way. No
weekends anymore, thankfully. And yes, live alone. Free time spent reading,
tv, WoW, learning. I try to hang out with a friend at least once a week for a
few hours

~~~
trevyn
Changing your living situation to include forced socialization can help. Move
into a city center with social flatmates? On the more aggressive side of the
spectrum, remoteyear.com

------
mindhash
My situation is a bit different. I work from home, it's gets really lonely at
times. i focus on activities. I go out on bike, join biking groups on weekends
once in a while, take long walks, go hiking with friends, play soccer on
weekends, and ride a motorcycle. Through activities I have something to look
forward and that's the basis of life. I do meet passing crowd through
activities though only a few continue to be in touch.

~~~
muzuq
Thank-you for sharing your situation. I think the more discussion on this
topic, the better for all of us.

Walking/hiking seems like an easy habit to get in to with benefits abound.

------
kody
Use Meetup.com to find people with similar interests. Write down a list of
things you enjoy doing with other people (hiking, board games, whiskey
tastings), join 15-20 Meetup groups, and start attending meetups that appeal
to you. This helped me find a group of hikers and discovered lesser-known
hiking spots after moving to a new city.

I am an introvert, and meetups are a good way for me to control the
circumstances and volume of socializing in my life.

------
mettamage
Hmm...

I find it hard too.

What I do right now is: 1\. Suck it up. This kind of works quite well for me,
since I've also done meditation retreats in which you'll be forced to learn to
deal with it. 2\. If you don't have much time to go outside, then make it more
of a point to call people. 3\. Find something to do. Changing your attention
to something else in which you can get engrossed in is definitely a good thing
:)

------
gcoda
I started to play games, with voice. Join clans, talk to strangers. After some
time I was hanging out in raidcall room just to talk.

------
csallen
This is generic advice, I know… but go out and attend a planned activity that
requires strangers to interact with each other. It can be salsa dancing, it
can be Toastmasters, it can be poker, or anything in between. Just find some
sort of time-bounded activity where you interact with people by default and
can attend on a set schedule. Good luck!

------
napsterbr
Here's something that worked for me: all of a sudden I got this crazy interest
in airsoft. Bought a gun and joined locals who get together every week to
shoot at themselves. This is just an example, but the concept is great: find a
hobby. You'll then find people with very similar interest, and hanging out
with them is a lot easier.

------
merrua
Whatever other options you take, also arrange to get a counselor / therapist.
Consider it an investment in your mental health. Adjusting to meeting more
people is stressful and they will support you through it. You will also
improve your personality (no matter where you start with, knowing yourself
helps).

------
AndrewKemendo
I don't think there is a solution to this other than a significant lifestyle
or personality change.

Some people are personable and extroverted and are surrounded by people that
want to be around them. For the rest of us it doesn't come naturally. I would
suggest just becoming comfortable with it.

------
RUG3Y
I joined a car club and met some acquaintances that way, hopefully some of
them become friends. There's got to be something you like to do that other
people like to do.

------
Fej
Daki.

Just kidding. One thing I've learned to avoid depression: keep yourself
occupied. While you're finding your solution it'll help you stop getting any
worse.

------
yulaow
You can try joining a no-profit local community. Also if you are in a tech
city you can probably find a lot of tech-related meetups full of friendly
people

------
SirLJ
You need a hobby outside the computer world, something you cannot automate,
like fishing or sailing, to meet different people and share the passion

------
tdb7893
For me the simplest is to find hobbies that I like. I do martial arts or board
games. They are both pretty social and easy to start for new people

------
darepublic
I remember taking adderall and working 16 hour days for a few weeks at a time.
Every once in a while I would message my friends with the word "helllppp" but
I was too high generally to care about my predicament. That is how I dealt
with loneliness in the aftermath of about failed wedding engagement

------
nxsynonym
Loneliness is more widespread than you could imagine, and it effects every
person differently.

The easiest way to develop friendships or make connections with people is to
show up regularly to a scheduled event. Even if you are the shyest, most
social awkward person in the world, if you keep showing up to a regular event
you will help combat loneliness.

My first suggestion is physical activities. If you're not already doing
something active start there. Doing something physical will wear you out and
help keep your mind from focusing on being alone. It is also a great way to
meet new people and have something to talk about. Join a gym, a running club,
start going to a rock-climbing gym, join a hiking Meetup group, find someone
at work or a neighbor that likes to bike and go for rides, join a sports club
or team, play airsoft/paintball, go geocaching, etc. There is something
physical for everyone of all body types and abilities. Lets say you like
lifting weights. Start going to the gym 3 times a week. Maybe after a few
weeks you see a free yoga class and are interested, take it. Say hi to
someone. Later on that person may need a spotter, or have a question. Boom,
you've made a (sort of) friend.

Once you have a physical activity built into your routine, find one or two
non-work (and non-video game!) hobbies that you enjoy. Chess, tabletop games,
fishing, walking around the city, going to museums, fixing cars/machines,
restoring furniture, painting, drawing, old electronic restoration, going to
bookstores, -- literally anything you could see yourself spending 1 or 2 hours
of free time on per day or every few days. Start doing this regularly. Don't
worry if it's alone. Being occupied with something you like will make your
mind too busy too care. PLUS once you need to drum up small talk with a
friend/co-worker/whoever you will have something to talk about.

Don't be afraid of "looking lonely". If you enjoy going to bars/coffee
shops/dinner/whatever once in a while, go to one! If you can invite someone
great, if not, go anyway. You'd be surprised how many people do things alone.
If you have the gift of gab, chat them up. Maybe you won't have a new friend,
but it will be some interaction. Sometimes all you need is to physically be
present around people to help cure the loneliness.

Also, and this one was the biggest change that affected me, say yes to things!
If you are lucky enough to get invited to do stuff (by family, coworkers,
anyone), say yes. Even if you can only show up or do the activity for 30 mins,
go. Saying yes has a snowball effect, the more you say yes the more you will
be invited. If you absolutely need to say no, have no interest, etc, offer a
counter-invite to a separate activity and then follow up. Also, invite people
to do things. Even if it sounds boring/lame/mundane. Have errands after work?
Invite someone. People are more willing to do boring stuff then you would
think.

~~~
muzuq
Thank-you for the indepth reply! I think a lot of valuable information is
there.

I usually don't feel afraid of "looking lonely" but, there have been a few
times I stop myself from going and grabbing a dinner at a bar / diner or
whatever because I get caught up thinking people are going to pity me for
being out to dinner alone.

I really like the counter-invite idea you mentioned in your last paragraph.
I've been trying to say "yes" to everything I can but sometimes I just can't
make it, and I've never thought to counter-invite.

------
maa5444
change your diet first... again... change it meet ppl in your free time and be
prepared to fail when trying to mingle, but enjoy the little moment of
happiness that soon or later will come.

------
thebigspacefuck
You could take up smoking. Every day I drive to work it's like the smokers are
having a social get together. If you're worried about getting addicted you
could start vaping 0% nicotine. The vapers are in the smoking circle too.

~~~
muzuq
I haven't had a smoke in 2 years, not planning on going back to it. I grasp
your point though

~~~
thebigspacefuck
Good for you! I have quit off and on over the years. It's been a long time
since my last smoke. I definitely used to meet more people that way though.

------
pryelluw
Email me if you ever want to talk. pryelluw@gmail.com :-)

------
eternalban
Have you tried therapy?

You mentioned "fear" in context of reflecting on your situation but it is
possible that it is some sort of "fear" that is keeping you from extending
your social wings.

------
nicky0
Join a local running club. Worked for me.

------
XbrWtgXfkSTNCf
When I moved to a new city where I knew literally no one I spent a lot of time
thinking about, and working on this problem. I generally have a pretty small
circle of people I consider friends and for me friendship with a new person
doesn’t “just happen” I have to interact with someone repeatedly (I don’t
think it’s a revolutionary observation to point this out but it is worth
noting that repeated interaction is key). At the same time though, I’m
introverted and sometimes I just do not want to interact. So I thought about
the types of interactions that I feel more comfortable in so even on days that
I don’t want to interact I can still usually handle them.

For me that means meeting people via activities. I’ve additionally found I’m
happier when I’m a bit active so a lot of the specific examples lean that way
but the general principle is the same.

Structured activities where the whole group is 20 people or less I can almost
always handle especially if the activity itself is solo and the group
socialization part can be dropped into and out of easily. My favorite
activities like this are target shooting or archery: can’t handle people for a
bit? Go shoot targets no one will disturb you. Feel like interacting? take a
break and go to the water cooler ask for a tip on your form, compliment
someones grouping etc and a conversation naturally starts up. But as soon as
you are getting overstimulated it’s easy to go “I should really go practice
see you in a few rounds” and drop out of the conversation.

Classes where we have to partner up so I’m interacting with a person or
several people within the class, but one on one, with a known end time, work
really really well for me. On days I can handle more interaction the door to
chat a little during class and usually there is some conversation that happens
just after. On days I don’t feel up to socializing there isn’t an obligation
though. And because the interaction is structured around a skill I don’t ever
have to stress out about carrying a conversation. For me boxing worked well,
as did dance classes (which after I had done for a while so I felt comfortable
and less like I was going to step on my partners feet led to social dancing).
Language learning classes and meet ups were tougher but still worked well.

The final thing I did took some work but It’s really paid off in terms of
expanding the people I know: I actively tried to turn myself into a social
information hub. I have become a person who knows what is going on in my city
in any given week. What are the beer festivals? What community events? What
operas or plays in town? What fun runs are happening? What concerts are coming
up? I don’t go to 95% of the things I know about but it means I can
immediately make myself valuable to a new acquaintance by going “Hey you
expressed an interest XYZ did you know $eventRelatedToActivity is happening?
Seems like something you might be interested in” which firstly shows them I
listened to them which everyone likes and makes them like you more and
secondly tells them I’m a good person to maintain contact with because I can
point them to things they enjoy.

------
40something
Start a family.

