
Germans Forget Postwar History Lesson on Debt Relief in Greece Crisis - MrBuddyCasino
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/08/business/economy/germanys-debt-history-echoed-in-greece.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
======
ghshephard
As a Canadian living in Singapore I have no skin in this game, but here's a
counterpoint: [http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-01-27/germany-
des...](http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-01-27/germany-deserved-
debt-relief-greece-doesn-t-i5fdca2y)

The kind of summary (though the article is short and worth reading, if only to
get some balance):

 _There is a not-so-subtle difference between voluntarily taking on debts made
by previous, rogue governments at a currency rate favorable to the creditors
-- and heedlessly accumulating debts of one 's own while concealing the true
size of budget deficits. In the first case, the implication is harsh self-
imposed discipline and penitence. In the second case, profligacy._

For those inclined to dig in and do deeper research,
[http://library.fes.de/pdf-files/iez/10137.pdf](http://library.fes.de/pdf-
files/iez/10137.pdf) and in particular
[http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=493802](http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=493802)
give lots of great details on what happened back in 1953 with Germany.

~~~
quonn
This piece is titled "Germany Deserved Debt Relief, Greece Doesn't".

> It might still be argued that if Germany deserved a second chance after all
> it did to Europe, then surely Greece should also be granted one [... but
> ...] "under the rules of the international financial system, the people of
> the country are still responsible for the debt [...]"

In other words, while a war killing maybe 60 million can be forgiven, it is
unthinkable to forgive debt accumulated by previous governments.

> There is, however, a stronger reason why it would be wrong to write off
> Greek debt while the country is run by Syriza. [... blah blah ...] anti-
> Communist and anti-Marxist. [...] Now, far-left Syriza wants to be on the
> inside [...] It will use the debt relief to provide free electricity to
> households, subsidize rents, restore Christmas bonuses to pensioners, raise
> minimum salaries [...] It is an extreme case of moral hazard.

A moral hazard, no less! In any case, SYRIZA has no plans like that. I would
like to see a source, since these claims are completely new to me.

The fact is, that Greece has structural problems. Those problems were mostly
caused or accepted by central/conservative/socialdemocratic governments over
decades. SYRIZA is the first government that may be willing to change the
situation. In addition to those structural problems, there is currently a
depression that needs to be solved first. This was primarily caused by the
EU/ECB/IMF and at least the IMF accepts that now (and has been accepting it
since 2013). SYRIZA also recognises this.

SYRIZA are also convinced democrats, as they have repeatedly shown, something
that the Marxists never were. Therefore those comparisons are not helpful at
all.

~~~
verinus
i have read nowhere that syriza wanted to collect the taxes people were owing
the state. i have read nowhere that syriza wanted to cut state spending by
reducing the unneeded government employed workforce. i have read nowhere that
syriza wants to tax the rich greeks that pay virtually to really no taxes
(reeders for example)

but what i have read is, that tax evasion is wide spread as well as the
exploitation of social services- there was a news coverage where a
considerable part of the inhabitants of an island received pensions for people
without eyesight...

edit: fixed spelling mistakes

~~~
quonn
> i have read nowhere that syriza wanted to collect the taxes people were
> owing the state

They do. They have stated this clearly ("Raise income tax to 75% for all
incomes over 500,000 euros.", "Increase taxes on big companies to that of the
European average.", "Adoption of a tax on financial transactions and a special
tax on luxury goods.", [0]), over and over again. However, you can't change a
country that quickly. It will take many years.

> i have read nowhere that syriza wanted to cut state spending by reducing the
> unneeded government employed workforce.

First, just because jobs are performed by the government and not by private
companies does not imply that they are not needed. There likely is greater
inefficiency, I agree. But 'public sector jobs = unneeded jobs' is wrong.
Second, cutting those jobs is often impossible (for example in Germany it
would be, because government jobs are guaranteed for a lifetime.) and even if
they can be cut, they will drive up unemployment which already stands at 25%
and 60% for young people.

> i have read nowhere that syriza wants to tax the rich greeks that pay
> virtually to really no taxes (reeders for example)

They do [1]. They proposed it, but the IMF did not go along, as far as I know.
Reeders are also probably harder to tax, because they can probably simply fly
the flag of a country that doesn't tax them. [1]

[0] [http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-29/syrizas-
original-40...](http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-29/syrizas-
original-40-point-manifesto) ; I have some doubts about the reliability of the
source. There are other sources, but I can't be bothered to search right now.

[1] [http://www.wsj.com/articles/greek-ship-owners-fear-syriza-
ta...](http://www.wsj.com/articles/greek-ship-owners-fear-syriza-tax-
plan-1422363968)

~~~
verinus
thanks for your input.

just to correct a misinterpretation: I did not want to imply, that public
sector jobs are unneeded jobs. I just called to cut the jobs not needed to run
the country because i red a hand ful of articles stating that it is somewhat
common that one can have a public job and a "real" second job because
supervision is so lax)

------
Tomte
"Germany vs. Greece" is a compelling and intriguing narrative, but there 17
more Eurozone members.

And some of them take a much tougher stand towards Greece than Germany does.
Ask Lithuania how happy they are to pump money towards a country that is
richer than they are themselves.

Of course, Germany has a lot of influence. But everytime I see articles
riffing off this Germany vs. Greece theme, I tend to discount them as shallow.

~~~
luso_brazilian
As this is basically a repeat of the Picketty article recently posted here
I'll repost my comment from there to help in the understanding that it is not
only Germany that have contributed into the Greek bailout fund.

1\. Meet Portugal (my country). Some may know us derisively as the P in PIGS
because of our financial problems (much similar to the Greek one in nature and
extent).

In 2010 and 2011 as one of the 14 member states of the EU that were part of
the Greek loan facility Portugal contributed with 1102 million euros into the
52.9 billion loan that greece received [1].

Yes, that's correct, not all of the debt that people are so eager to expect
that German forgives is from their coffers, it was actually pooled from the
following countries: Belgium, Cyprus, Germany, Estonia, Finland, France,
Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Austria, Portugal, Slovenia,
Slovakia and Spain.

2\. As you may know, about the same time we had our own problems and also had
to be bailed out. As part of the measures put in place to reduce our deficit a
massive tax hike was implemented in the end of 2012 [2]

I'll draw attention to single one of those measures: the 3.5% extraordinary
tax on the income paid by every single person with income above minimum wage
(485€/month) including pensioners.

Now, for the money quote [3]: "Minister of Finance Vitor Gaspar said the tax
would bring in 1025 million euros". Less than what Portugal contributed to the
Greek bailout fund. 3.5% of the income of every citizen in this country.

In conclusion, that's one of the reasons for the nationalistic outrage against
Greece defaulting the loan. It is not only the money of the richest bankers of
Europe that won't be repaid, it is the taxpayer money of each of those
countries that contributed to their rescue.

To put in perspective, 1102 million euros means that default would cost every
inhabitant in this country 110 euros (about 330€ per household) and not only
hypothetically but in practice too as demonstrated above.

[1]
[http://www.rekenkamer.nl/english/Publications/Topics/EU_gove...](http://www.rekenkamer.nl/english/Publications/Topics/EU_governance_to_combat_the_economic_and_financial_crisis/Financial_stability_instruments/Financial_instruments/Greek_loan_facility)

[2] [http://edition.cnn.com/2012/12/31/business/portugal-
fiscal-t...](http://edition.cnn.com/2012/12/31/business/portugal-fiscal-tax-
increase/)

[3]
[http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/observatories/eurwork/article...](http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/observatories/eurwork/articles/other/governments-
first-bill-taxes-christmas-allowance)

P.S. As one of the most common responses to was that the money didn't went to
Greece but to its creditors (without improving the Greek situation) I must add
that I agree it is a valid point.

But is not related to the fact that the European fund raised to Greece was not
money coming from an abstract concept of Europe or from the coffers of the
Germans alone but directly from the taxpayers of each of the countries
mentioned above.

That is the point being made, not that the bailout shouldn't have happened but
that it happened and an eventual default won't be on Germany alone.

~~~
fauigerzigerk
Here's a chart that shows the per capita exposure to Greek debt as a share of
average monthly income:
[http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-07-06/greeks-
have...](http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-07-06/greeks-have-voted-
now-kick-them-out)

Top of the list: Slovakia, Malta, Slovenia, Estonia.

------
lyschoening
I don't think there is any German who hasn't heard about the debts of WWI, and
the debt relief that came after WWII.

The reason Germans are opposed to debt relief for Greece is that they have
read about Greek nepotism in the public sector, tax avoidance, and other
corruption while Greek reforms have not been forthcoming. To the average
German voter money for Greece without reforms is pouring water into a broken
bucket.

~~~
verinus
i always ask: why should european tax payers pay for a greek state when the
greeks themselves dont pay their taxes?

------
arkj
I don't think you can compare the post war scene with today's Greece. At least
the author doesn't provide any data to justify why the debt should be written
of except that people are unemployed and pensioners are suffering. Now that is
not to say that let people suffer. But i think the broader issue is Tsipras
has no plan. They just want the debt to be written off and expect that the
economy will recover through some magic.

Thomas Piketty is arguing along the similar lines but it think from the
perspective that the creditors austerity policy has failed.

[http://www.thenation.com/article/austerity-has-failed-an-
ope...](http://www.thenation.com/article/austerity-has-failed-an-open-letter-
from-thomas-piketty-to-angela-merkel/)

The creditors are saying keep taking a haircut till you recover, and the
debtor is saying, Sir that what we've been doing and we are getting into
deeper trouble.

Are we running out of economic imaginations? Maybe we need more of startup
thinking in the space of economy.

~~~
gonvaled
Writing off the debt _is the magic_ when the debt is as huge as it is for
Greece.

Extending maturity and / or reducing interest rates do not help much if you
know that whatever improvements you make to your economy will be swallowed by
the financial markets in the future (since the debt still exists). You are a
slave country (all countries are dependent on the financial markets in more or
less measure, but Greece has completely lost its freedom)

Would you work to pay for your student loans if you realized that you will
never be able to pay it back, in your whole work life, and that you will be
subject to the dictate of your creditors forever? If default was not an option
(you can not default on student debt in the US?), I would just leave the
country.

------
jkot
There is lot of stuff like 'Merkel with mustache' in Greece, it is bit tiring.
I would not expect it to reach HN front page.

Anyway if debt relieve, why Greece? It is well developed country with good
infrastructure. Lets send those money to countries which need it more.

------
Gossilla
There have been several haircuts to the Greek debt, including stretching of
payment goals.

~~~
de_Selby
And no matter how many lazy op-eds are written saying it, this isn't simply a
matter of Greece and Germany. A dept write-off would have huge knock-on
effects in the rest of Europe, with Ireland, Portugal, Spain also then looking
for similar write-offs.

Not to mention the crippling Italy, France and Germany's banks. The money has
to come from somewhere.

~~~
fineman
No chance it could come from the banks that made the bad loans? You know, make
the criminals pay.

I imagine that would have more impact than making the victims pay.

~~~
malka
That would go against the very purpose of a bank : privatize what you earn,
share your losses.

------
ben_bai
There is a slight difference between a country defeated twice with millions
dead an bomb to ashes and a country in debt because of "cheap" loans. thats
the tl;dr explaination.

~~~
rtpg
if you read the article, you'd see that it's not just postwar Germany, but
many other countries who only recover after a massive devaluation of their
debt.

Besides, austerity has proven countless times not to work, so why would
Germany keep on insisting on it?

~~~
digitalengineer
It's part of their (and our Dutch) culture. Protestant / Calvinist. 'We were
born in to sin and must work hard to reach paradise'. This is why the Greek
bashing in the papers has been so effective. They were 'lazy, bureaucrats, and
what not. (Southern country's are more laid back. Catholic faith has
forgiveness and starting over as main themes.

~~~
mafribe
Greek bashing? The Greek airforce has [1] 156 F-16s, an airplane that's $165
million a piece new. Why on earth does Greece, a NATO country need 156 F-16s?
Could they easily be sold for a couple of billions on the second hard market?
Nah perish the tought! Greece needs to be the largest importer of conventional
weapons in Europe and its military spending must be the highest in the
European Union (relative to G.D.P) [2]. Greece must be “by far” the country
with the largest share of military personnel to population in the EU.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_of_the_Hellen...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_of_the_Hellenic_Air_Force)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Greece#Conscriptio...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Greece#Conscription.2C_budget.2C_international_operations)

~~~
digitalengineer
The military hardware was part of the deal. Bought from Germany and France in
large parts...

~~~
mafribe
What are you talking about? Neither the German or the French airforce operate
or did operate F-16s [1] to the best of my knowledge. The article [2] makes it
sound like the planes were directly acquired from General Dynamics, the
manufacturer.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon_operators)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon_operators#Greece)

~~~
digitalengineer
(1) "Athens' fondness for weaponry, and willingness of Germany and France to
feed it, under fire as Greece struggles with debt crisis" (2)

(1) [http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/apr/19/greece-
military...](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/apr/19/greece-military-
spending-debt-crisis) (2) The Submarine Deals That Helped Sink
Greece[http://www.lepointinternational.com/it/politica/europa/550-t...](http://www.lepointinternational.com/it/politica/europa/550-the-
submarine-deals-that-helped-sink-greece-.html)

~~~
mafribe
Did you read the articles?

    
    
       Merkel's reaction was instant. "She immediately said: 'But we never asked you to spend so much of your GDP on defence,
    

Quite. Don't by weapons if you don't need them and can't afford them. And
nobody prevents Greece from selling a few of those sweet F-16s.

------
piokoch
Greek crisis has two faces.

It is true that Greeks introduced crazy socialistic ideas like having written
down in the constitution the law that civil servant cannot be made redundant.
It ended up with huge number of employed officials doing nothing.

It is also true that Greeks made cheating on taxes a pure art (and I am
speaking this as a Polish, and people in Poland are not exactly rushing to pay
taxes). Covering pools with a military masking net to avoid tax or things like
hiding relatives death for many years to get their pension are kind of unusual
practices. This pathologies are partly caused by absurd tax regulations,
though, so I wouldn't attribute it to "Greek nature", as some people do.

But it is also true that Greeks were tricked into joining Eurozone. They had
rather weak economy without well developed modern industry. As long as they
had drahma, Greek products were cheap, Greece was also cheap as a touristic
destination. It has all changed, when they joined Eurozone, this hasn't
improved their economy, but made their often low quality products expensive.

Who was main beneficiary of this? Obviously Germany, before Euro Deutsch Mark
was becoming a very strong currency, so German products were expensive
(similarly to Swiss Franc).

Introducing Euro changed that. Right now German economy is blooming, they are
about to have zero debt budget next year and the rest of Eurozone is kind of
in trouble.

The other thing, Greeks were actively encouraged to take credits (I can't
believe that banks and governments were so stupid that they couldn't analyze
situation). Greeks spent those money on products bought abroad (with Germany
as a big seller). Greeks bought a lot of military equipment in Germany, for
instance. So, Greeks made others rich in that way. Now they are left with top
quality war ships, but they cannot payback their debts.

~~~
verinus
i agree to the statements in the beginning, but i can't see why germany
benefited from the € the way you write. i thought that germany is booming
because the have stagnant salaries for several years now...

and i read in another place that the german export to greece is a nearly
negligible share of german exports and that the biggest lenders were french
and uk banks...

~~~
JustMeMe
Germany is booming because of stagnant salaries for a decade, cutting of
social costs and benefits and cutting of subsidies to coal, lowering taxes,
privatizing trains, postal service and telecommunications etc.

------
lsc
the difference being that the whole "monetary union without fiscal union"
experiment is madness and obviously doomed from the start. It's got all the
downsides of the gold standard, combined with all the downsides of a fiat
currency, with the advantages of neither.

A big advantage of having a fiat currency is that through manipulating the
money supply, a country can essentially give everyone paid in that currency a
pay cut (or a raise) relative to other countries. This situation where Greece
is dramatically less productive than the rest of Europe is a textbook example
of when currency devaluation is appropriate... but they can't do it, because
they are using the same currency as Germany and other countries that have very
high productivity levels.

Greece is way better off outside of the euro; loaning them more money at this
point would be delaying necessary pain; and certainly, getting off the euro
and bootstrapping their own currency will be painful, but... it's something
they are going to have to do.

------
dmichulke
_Germans Forget Postwar ..._

Most people these days are unable to distinguish between people and their
government.

They assume that governments act on behalf of the people, yet, somehow they
always claim they don't feel represented by their government.

A sad world.

EDIT: "changed government and its people" to "people and their government",
added title

~~~
Hermel
In that case, we should discuss helping the people, and not discuss helping
the Greek government. In fact, Europe is already helping hundreds of thousands
of Greeks by offering them good jobs in other countries.

~~~
melling
6 in 10 Greeks don't pay taxes. Tax evasion is common.

[http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/12/31/greece.taxes/](http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/12/31/greece.taxes/)

[http://boingboing.net/2010/05/04/satellite-photos-
cat.html](http://boingboing.net/2010/05/04/satellite-photos-cat.html)

Have they fixed the early retirement issue?

[http://www.businessinsider.com/greece-germany-
pensions-2010-...](http://www.businessinsider.com/greece-germany-
pensions-2010-4?op=1)

[http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/12/04/75-of-greek-
pensi...](http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/12/04/75-of-greek-pensioners-
enjoy-early-retirement)

~~~
BBlarat
yes, the average greek retires at 62 and the average european retires at 60.
[http://www.oecd.org/els/emp/ageingandemploymentpolicies-
stat...](http://www.oecd.org/els/emp/ageingandemploymentpolicies-
statisticsonaverageeffectiveageofretirement.htm)

~~~
melling
The age issue isn't the only problem.

"Proportion of wages as pension; Greece: 80% Germany: 46%"

Almost everything you read has Greeks living in a welfare state that they
couldn't afford. You just can't kick the can down the road forever:
[http://www.npr.org/2015/07/07/420913926/despite-large-
cuts-t...](http://www.npr.org/2015/07/07/420913926/despite-large-cuts-to-
greeces-pension-system-creditors-want-more)

------
junto
It is worth pointing out that Syrizia didn't ask for a debt relief (reduction)
in the last round of negotiations, upon which the referendum was based.

They asked for a restructuring. The same amount of debt was to be owed but
over a longer period of time and at a lower interest rate.

The reasoning was quite simply that at the current rate and loan period, they
are unable to take any advantage of the quantative easing currently being
undertaken by the ECB.

Varoufakis explains it quite nicely onnhis blog. The debt as it stands is
unsustainable. Restructuring would help tremendously. They haven't asked for a
reduction.

------
mhd
"Greece has done little to address its endemic economic mismanagement. But it
has few incentives to do so if the fruits of economic improvements will flow
to its creditors."

Ah, the good ol' Nirvana fallacy.

------
Arnt
What IS the postwar lesson?

The Germans argued, in short, that "we've changed, and because of the change
the leniency will really help". The change was clear: The Bundestag didn't
look like either the Weimar Reichstag or the Nazi regime.

It'll be difficult for the Greek to put forward the same argument, so long as
their pension scheme remains severely underfinanced, etc. Syriza's argument is
basically "we suffer", which is undoubtedly true, but it's a very different
argument, not one that can be supported by the German experience.

~~~
gonvaled
The German change was a politic change, and was inevitable because they lost
the war, and the political ideology which started it all was _bankrupt_ ,
defeated and exterminated. From this politic change, they extracted a debt
relief which helped them to recover. Without that, they would have languished
economically, just as the Greek are doing now.

The Greece change can not come because the main reason that is keeping them in
crisis (the debt burden) will not disappear.

That is why they are asking for debt relief: they want to bankrupt the old
system.

~~~
Arnt
Quoting [http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2015/06/greek-
pe...](http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2015/06/greek-pensions)

"Yet there was a crucial hole in the reforms: they largely sheltered older
workers, so that they could retire on broadly the same terms as before. As an
example, Platon Tinios, a pensions expert at Piraeus University, highlights
the reform limiting the list of arduous occupations. This no longer included
new hairdressers from 2012 but all those with more than ten years’ experience
retained their previous right to retire five years early. The new accrual
rates applied to years worked from 2011; previous years worked still benefited
from the earlier more generous formula (although the resulting benefits are
then subjected to the cuts applied to pensions in payment). According to
Professor Tinios, “the vast majority of those planning to retire this decade
are grandfathered” (shielded) from the reforms."

~~~
gonvaled
> although the resulting benefits are then subjected to the cuts applied to
> pensions in payment

So, the cuts still apply, partially, even to the people who are retiring
early.

And anyway: you are a worker, having compromised to work for a meager salary
because you know that _at least_ you are going to retire early. You work 30
years and have nothing to show for it, but the promise of an early retirement.
That is the deal you have signed, the deal you have been promised: "you will
work for free (nearly), in exchange of retiring early".

And now, they are supposed to accept a retroactive contract change? I would
also not accept it.

If you are going to break deals, why not break the debt deal? Restructure the
debt, and start from zero. Maybe that means you need to leave the Euro, and
maybe that is good for you.

~~~
Arnt
It's always possible to renege on a loan. The next problem then is that if you
want to borrow again later, you have to find a persuasive argument that you
won't default again. "We've changed, really we have" and so on. Worked for the
Germans, who had changed, and I think it would work for the Greek if they were
able to cut pension costs enough, reduce corruption, clean up taxation and
generally pull off reforms.

------
kh_hk
Most european countries can't keep up with the currency, that's the real
issue. Of course the tax payers are highly entertained with the bigoted
argument of which country deserves what. It's too easy to go that route and
influence the public.

------
empressplay
Children suffer when their parents are forced to pay their debts or go into
bankruptcy, and certainly nobody lends these families any more money with
which to continue their lifestyle. How is a Greek citizen any different than a
child with financially-stressed parents? Why can't we write off their debts?
Seems unfair to me.

~~~
gonvaled
People can declare bankruptcy (in lots of countries), and children do no need
to inherit debts (they will not inherit assets either, of course)

------
JustMeMe
I wonder why in the US states can go bankrupt, states much larger than Greece:

* Without any impact on the US $ * Without any foreign country noticing * Without pictures of suffering people

What does the EU need to change? Is there cross financing in the US to states,
e.g. California, which the EU does not want to do for Greece?

~~~
gonvaled
> I wonder why in the US states can go bankrupt, states much larger than
> Greece:

Is this true? Has any US state gone bankrupt? Can you share a link? The
closest I know was California having some financial trouble, but no bankrupt
was declared, afaik.

> Without any impact on the US $

The $ is no normal currency: it is the world currency. Most international
contracts are done in $. By chance (if you are charitable) or by design (if
you tend to conspiracy theories, like me), the $ gives the US a huge financial
advantage.

The markets are rigged in favor of the $.

~~~
saryant
State governments cannot enter bankruptcy. It's prohibited by both the federal
bankruptcy code and the Constitution (states can't repudiate their debt under
the contracts clause).

------
spystath
I believe the whole argument with the german postwar debt is a bit weak, the
conditions are much more different now. I don't particularly like how it is
being repeated over and over again, especially here (greece), as it misses the
whole point. It should never be "us" vs "them" and the german debt issue it's
clearly polarising towards that direction.

I don't want to start analysing what has gone wrong with greece. Lots of ink
has been spilled and most people have formed their opinions by now anyway.
Let's just say it's a mix of reckless mid-90s to late-00s borrowing/spending
and a bit of short-sightedness (or over-confidence maybe) of foreign
investors.

What troubles me most are two things however

First, the last 5 year reforms have afflicted low/middle class households the
most. Even moderate (800-900 e/mo) pensions and wages have been slashed,
collective bargaining abolished, lots of small/medium businesses have gone
belly up along with their employees. It was supposed to help, and I would even
be OK with it. But apparently it didn't. GDP plummeted, unemployment is all-
europe high, you have probably already read about it. Every 18 months there
are new reforms of the same kind only to roll-over the previous bail-outs to
new ones. Assuming we keep the euro and the government signs a new 2-4-year
funding programme. If in 2017 the situation is the same what would be the next
step? Another bail-out? When will this end? Will it end at all? Let's say that
through another set of cuts and budget adjustments there is a 3% primary
surplus (wildly optimistic) by the end of 2017. How good will that be with
200% debt/GDP? These are probably naive questions for someone more learned in
economics but in my eyes it seems like the trial of Sisyphus[1]; the same
thing over and over again. I believe that there must be a way to manage the
greek debt, not write it off maybe, but ease part of its repayment.

On a side-note some proposed or already implemented reforms are on good track.
Ridiculously early pensions should be abolished, as they are an insult to
those working hard for 40+, years and tax evasion should be tackled hard. But
these things don't happen within a year, especially managing tax evasion. It's
getting better but it will need time. The current government has vowed to
address both, I wish they do, but I'm cautious.

Second, I am totally disheartened by the way the greeks are depicted by the
media. For example there was this utterly disgusting sketch[2] by a dutch
newspaper. I can find more, but this is one of the more recent ones. Is this
what people think of greeks? Is this how we treat people that are definitely
through some hard times, even if it is partially of their own wrong-doings?
Don't get me wrong, there has been also in greece some relevant comments and
sketches. I disagree with them, but _all_ of them were targeted at politicians
not people. Although there are harsh feeling about Mrs. Merkel, and Mr.
Schäuble, and several other high profile politicians I have heard noone to say
bad things of the germans, or dutch, or whatever. On the other hand I have
read some totally disgusting things for the greeks as a nation over the last
few months. I'm sad and disappointed.

[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus)

[2]: [http://www.volkskrant.nl/foto/de-cartoons-van-jos-
collignon~...](http://www.volkskrant.nl/foto/de-cartoons-van-jos-
collignon~p3761431/3147030/)

