
Ask HN: My work permit was just denied because I don't have a degree. Can I - uni_degree
Hello,<p>I&#x27;m a software developer with 5 years of experience. Recently I got a dream job offer from a Swiss company. Unfortunately the Swiss immigration agency denied issuing the work permit because I don&#x27;t have an official degree. The company thinks I&#x27;m qualified enough and offers a good salary (by European standards) of ~$140 000.<p>Until now, the degree has never been required. I&#x27;ve worked in other European countries without any problems (I&#x27;m from one of the ex-Soviet states).<p>I&#x27;ve been programming for almost 10 years now, and I&#x27;m pretty comfortable with the theory, so I&#x27;d be able to complete all required courses within a couple of months. However I haven&#x27;t been able to find a university that would allow me to get a quick degree.<p>For example, the Open University is a good accredited institution that allows you to get a degree remotely. But they don&#x27;t have the so called &quot;challenging&quot; of the courses where you can pass the course by simply taking the exam.<p>I know that most of North American universities allow that. Do you know if there is a school that could help me obtain a degree within a couple of months?<p>Thanks
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tomashertus
From what I know about immigration systems(experience with Czech Republic and
USA), having degree is fundamental piece of your visa application. For example
in US, the 1 year of university is taken like 3 years of experience, so in
order to be qualified like someone who has a bachelor degree, you would have
to have 12 years of proven work experience.[1]

Based on my experience with immigration systems I've worked with, it never
matters how stellar skills you think you have or how many great repos you have
on Github. What matter is the quality of your particular case which means
quality of paper work you are providing. Obtain highly valuable
certificates(eg. a degree in the field you are applying for), recommendations
from former employers(C lvl management+), get published(newspaper, etc), and
others. These all documents help you to pass the minimum requirements to
submit your visa petition.[2]

In addition to that, every country has several types of visas. Maybe if you
are not approved for working visas, you might want to try different type of
visas(intern)?[3]

[1] [https://www.quora.com/H-1B-Visa-Reform-Is-it-essential-
for-a...](https://www.quora.com/H-1B-Visa-Reform-Is-it-essential-for-
a-H1B-applicant-to-have-a-degree-Do-I-qualify-if-I-am-6-months-from-
graduation-and-a-senior-Also-are-college-dropouts-disqualified)

[2] [https://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/h-1b-specialty-
occupati...](https://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/h-1b-specialty-
occupation/understanding-h-1b-requirements)

[3] [http://www.schengenvisainfo.com/switzerland-
visa/](http://www.schengenvisainfo.com/switzerland-visa/)

~~~
tucaz
Got my H1B this year exactly like you described: 12+ years of experience and
some good paper work. No college whatsoever.

~~~
zerr
How to prove your working experience if you're an independent
consultant/contractor/freelancer (for many years)? Do you need to reach to all
your previous clients and ask for some letter?

~~~
tucaz
Yes. That's what I had to do exactly because I was a consultant. In addition
to that we got a US college to evaluate my work experience based on the
letters and my resume and issue a "certificate" stating that I have the
equivalent experience of a bachelor in computer science.

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howandwhy
Option 1: Talk to a immigration lawyer specialized in Swiss immigration
system. Option 2: Talk to your future employer if they can arrange at least
remote working for initial few months and if you are not able to gather paper
works then revise the process. Meanwhile you will have breathing room to look
for ways that you can travel and work. You can take short trip and work there
for initial few weeks(though I am not sure about the other visa, these are my
guesses) to know the system and team. As an experienced person then you can
work from anywhere. So talk to company if remote work is a possibility even
with a pay cut.

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jacques_chester
My advice is that you should consult a lawyer qualified to give you advice.

The immigration agency are not your lawyer.

Immigration is super complicated. Everywhere, for everyone.

 _This is your livelihood_ we're talking about.

Go see a lawyer.

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alimw
I suspect you overestimate the extent to which your programming experience
would translate to formal studies. Unless you're some sort of genius (possible
of course), you'd be extremely optimistic to embark on a degree hoping to
finish it in a couple of months.

~~~
okwhatthe2
Oh, stop trying to stifle the confidence of others.

~~~
cblock811
It's still a valid criticism. Unless you've had to do random things like write
compilers and write/analyze algoritms every day there are going to be lots of
things covered in school that most of us just don't do while programming day-
to-day.

Add to that the issue that school work does require some amount of time to
complete and I wonder how someone could really compress that volume of work
into a few months.

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cafard
US universities often will allow you to get credit for AP courses taken in
high school, provided you get a 4 or 5 (depending on school) on the exam.
Whether ETS allows you to take AP exams without the courses, I can't say. Some
schools will give you credit for "life experience".

University of Maryland University College has been around for a long time.
They offer remote courses, they offer the "life experience" credit, and so on.
I don't know about the "challenge" stuff.

~~~
auganov
You absolutely can take AP courses at will. I did.

Just go to [http://international.collegeboard.org/programs/ap-
recognitio...](http://international.collegeboard.org/programs/ap-recognition/)
. Pick your country, you can then see a list of schools that administer it.
Just contact whichever school you want and they should help you.

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dantaylor08
According to this: [https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home/themen/arbeit/nicht-
eu_...](https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home/themen/arbeit/nicht-eu_efta-
angehoerige/grundlagen_zur_arbeitsmarktzulassung.html) there may be a way for
you to get in without a degree. I'm not a Swiss immigration lawyer though. A
good one can save you a lot of time and headache (and a potential lost
opportunity).

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contingencies
I don't have a degree but have successfully acquired US visas before. Forget
university, just get a decent lawyer. If the company wants to pay you, they
will find a way. In the mean time, you can explore options like living in
Germany or France and commuting: which I hear can be preferable anyway, as
it's a lot cheaper than Swiss real estate.

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rezashirazian
Any skilled worker position, even in US or Canada requires a degree from an
accredited university. You might be able to circumvent the process if the
company offers you a managerial or executive position. IRC those positions
usually require a separate visa application that may not have the same
requirements.

~~~
pedalpete
This is not entirely correct, and I'm assuming you meant to say "skilled
worker visa" not "skilled worker position".

In many cases, depending on the Visa you are applying for, work experience can
count instead of degrees.

I don't have a University Degree, and I can go to the US on a TN Visa (as a
Canadian) due to my work experience. I now live in Australia and am on a 457
Visa where my work experience was considered instead of a degree.

~~~
rezashirazian
I am working in US under TN status and you definitely need a computer science
or engineering degree for anything tech related.

~~~
l4xecz
I was hired by a fairly large tech company in the US for a software
engineering position and we acquired a TN based off sporadic contracting
experience and no degree. A good lawyer is all you need.

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charlesdm
Talk to a Swiss immigration lawyer. Unlike what some people seem to think,
lawyers do actually have a purpose. This is one of them!

Also, good lawyers can more often than not find new ways to interpret existing
laws to your advantage. There might be some obscure statute somewhere that
exists that you don't know about.

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finid
If you know enough to be offered ~$140 000 by a Swiss company, I'd say forget
schooling or degrees.

Mighty waste of time and money. Just find another job. I'm sure there's at
least one startup in the US or Canada that would consider you.

~~~
uni_degree
Thanks for your response.

I really like Europe, especially Switzerland. That company is also very
interesting, I could learn a lot there.

And as I understand, I still need a degree for the US H1-B visa.

~~~
gumby
> And as I understand, I still need a degree for the US H1-B visa

I got an H-1 for someone without a degree (a special kind of machinist in this
case) but we had to demonstrate he had significant expertise equivalent or
that exceeded a degree. It's doable but difficult -- we really needed him and
couldn't find anyone local at all.

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NetStrikeForce
Piggybacking on the topic:

Are there any useful (as in useful content), online, non-full time IT/Compute
degrees between 0 and $10k? The nice-looking ones from US are closer to $50k
than $10k.

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kennell
> I've worked in other European countries without any problems (I'm from one
> of the ex-Soviet states)

Immigration in Switzerland is much different than in EU-member states.

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zachrose
Just curious: does Switzerland thing you need any college degree, or a
computer science/software engineering degree specifically?

~~~
jerven
Its complicated, and depends very much on which country you are from, which
permit class you are applying too etc... Which means the usual applies, if you
are from a generally rich country then it's easy otherwise its hard and can be
a lot of paperwork and worries.

See [http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/work-
permits/29191706](http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/work-permits/29191706) for an
introduction.

