
Alicia Keys is done playing nice. Your phone is getting locked up now - wallflower
https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/alicia-keys-is-done-playing-nice-your-phone-is-getting-locked-up-at-her-shows-now/2016/06/16/366c15aa-33af-11e6-95c0-2a6873031302_story.html
======
nneonneo
I hate to bring this up, but this is perhaps one of the clearest examples of
PR copy as mentioned by Paul Graham's Submarine post:
[http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html)

Basically, this is a big advert for Yondr (the company making the phone
baggies) - the clickbait title, the picture of the baggies, the quote from the
fan saying he's ok with the whole thing, the list of artists signed up with
Yondr, and the whole spiel about why a "phone-less" concert is such a great
thing.

~~~
Arkaad
More importantly: Isn't Hacker News about programing and technology?

~~~
_nedR
This article is about technology. More specifically, society's reaction to
modern technology. It also raises questions of how society is going to react
to wearable computing once that becomes more prevalent.

~~~
Arkaad
That's a huge stretch. Sometimes in job interviews you get asked about recent
tech news to assess if you stay up to date. I wouldn't speak about this
article personally.

------
semi-extrinsic
Regardless of whether this is a good idea or not: wow, this one pulls out all
the propaganda stops. Especially this quote, early on in the article, in a
separate paragraph, stands out:

"If you had told me you were going to put it in a locker, I’d have been pissed
off," Kevin Schmidt, 37, tells the bouncer. "This is okay."

Shaping your opinion up front and early: "this is OK, other people like
yourself say so."

~~~
Sylos
The quote doesn't even make sense to begin with either. I can understand that
it maybe feels better, when you can keep your properties in your pocket, but
ultimately you know that you will get your phone back from the locker, too, so
there's no reason to get objectively more pissed off about that than about the
bag.

~~~
majewsky
There are scenarios in which there is a difference: If some emergency happened
and the hall were evacuated, everyone would be away from their phones, and
they might be destroyed by whatever happens to the hall (flood, fire, etc.).

Also, a locker system introduces the possibility of disorganization: I would
imagine that there will be an error where somebody else gets handed my phone
instead of me. Or a malicious worker at the locker could steal it. The same
reasons why I would never leave my phone in the pocket when I hand my jacket
in at the cloakroom.

------
personjerry
OT: Rather interesting title for what the piece is about. Why not call it
"Musicians use pouches to lock up phones" or something? I suppose maybe that's
just the growing trend of clickbait titles.

------
probably_wrong
> Fans will also realize that they actually enjoy a show more without
> constantly filming, texting and Tweeting.

While I may or may not disagree reharding phones on live shows, this is plain
propaganda: taking away my freedom of choice and then try to convince me it's
for my own good.

~~~
sotojuan
[https://xkcd.com/1314/](https://xkcd.com/1314/)

~~~
dclowd9901
Let me help on that 5th panel:

Because it's fucking distracting, often interruptive, and speaks pretty
plainly to the character of a person who values everything else BUT that place
in that moment. I can't remember the last time I saw anything interesting
without some jackass with a phone stepping in front of me to snap a picture of
it. It would be a revelation if something of note happened and people chose
not to take a picture of it.

Also if I'm a condescending prick for thinking that, Randall's a condescending
prick for his assessment of people like me. Unfortunately his reasoning cuts
both ways.

~~~
Zelmor
You sure told that stranger there, tiger!

Too bad the comic went past your head. Your distraction is in your head, not
in other people's behaviour. Relax, meditate, blaze it. Whichever.

PS. I took a screenshot of your post. ;)

~~~
lomnakkus
> Your distraction is in your head, not in other people's behaviour.

This is absolute nonsense in many/most(?) cases. Firstly, not everybody (well,
almost nobody, really) is some kind of Zen Buddhist master who can ignore
everything around them at will. Secondly, we humans have hardwired unavoidable
responses to certain stimuli that just cannot simply "be ignored".

(I'll happily grant that PP's example might be a tad on the "overly sensitive"
scale, but the general argument in that XKCD comic doesn't stand up to
scrutiny. See my other comment for details.)

I also sense a lot of condescension in your post, btw. Might want to check on
that.

------
a_small_island
"Put your phone in this pouch."

\-- I don't have a phone.

"Put it in or you can't come in."

\-- I don't have a phone.

"Last time I'm asking you nicely."

\-- I don't have a phone.

"Ok, whatever, just go inside."

\-- _Takes out my phone and records Alicia Keys_

~~~
buro9
"Put your phone in this pouch."

\-- Sure.

Continue to then use your watch to read email and record audio.

This is a tech race that Yondy will lose.

~~~
majewsky
"Put your cybernetic implants in this pouch. Resistance is futile."

------
dalerus
I guess I don't really understand the problem artists have with phones? Are
they worried people are watching their performances rather than attending?

I only go to a couple of shows a year (on a good year) and not once has a
phone ruined my enjoyment of the show. Personally I don't take out my phone
more than a few times, mostly to grab a photo for Instagram, and maybe text or
tweet between openers.

~~~
kevan
A concern with a lot of performing arts is that there's a lot less freedom for
experimentation. Take comedians for example. In the old days you could try out
new jokes with the crowd at a show and if you went to far or something flopped
you'd quickly move on to the next joke and most people would forget about it
if the rest of the show was good. Today, basically everything is permanent.
That one bad joke hits youtube and now it stands equal to the rest of your
content in the eyes of the internet.

It's harder to take a risk with a new song or different show ending because
you'll be judged immediately and forever on everything you do. There's a lot
more pressure to be perfect at the first performance.

~~~
dalerus
Interesting. I guess I didn't think of the comedian angle. Still, I'm on the
adapt or die side of this. When I am paying $200 to attend a show, don't take
away my phone.

I went to a show earlier this year and the artist had everyone put their phone
away for one song. Was great and the audience generally accepted it for what
it was, a moment that the artist wanted to share with the crowd.

Just don't treat us like little kids.

~~~
bigiain
And if the terms and conditions for that $200 ticket explicitly stated "you
can't bring your phone into the performance" when you bought it - which side
are you on then?

(And before anybody asks, yeah - if your friend bought you that ticket with
those T&Cs and didn't tell you, that's still not the artists problem... Cope,
or get better friends.)

~~~
dalerus
It this becomes something that the T&C require, I'm probably not buying a
ticket. Unless it's someone I felt I really needed to see, then I'm at the
mercy of the T&C. But I'm a rule follower. :)

------
Theodores
There are lots of people that film every moment of their sporting or driving
life. Nowadays you can put a camera on a cycle helmet and record the whole
ride in glorious 4K. To do that at the turn of the century you would have
needed a support vehicle full of kit. Soon recording is going to be ubiquitous
- much like how on the latest phones you can go forward/back a few seconds to
get the shot you really wanted, you will soon be able to go forward/back a few
hours, probably with A.I. able to detect where you are and get the photos you
would have taken had you consciously thought to take pictures.

Let's be clear over this 'living for the moment' stuff that artists say. Yes
they would prefer a 'live' audience that is engaged rather than the 'society
of the spectacle' people viewing their life through an instagram-shared lens.
But the reality is that people record stuff and enjoy doing so. We are
marching towards that personal CCTV always recording world and maybe the
realisation of that will mean people won't fuss over recording their lives,
they will get back to 'living the moment' happy they have every moment backed
up in the cloud.

These same people that record concerts and other things are the same people
that do the word of mouth needed for these artists to be successful. Old media
does not work, people do not buy 'New Musical Express' to find a gig to go to.
The internet really has taken over and instead of complaining, these artists
should just get to grips with the reality of the situation.

Instead of these phone cases, I would urge a mass hand out of some type of
baseball cap with a 4K 3D 60Hz camera built in to the front. In that way
everyone could record their version of a good time, to do whatever with it. We
could then go back to engaged audiences, albeit wearing silly hats/goggles.

~~~
Overtonwindow
Oh wow I like that hat idea! That would be cool. Give me a Google Glass or
some kind of embedded camera that I can take the memories with me.

------
danso
> _Comedian Hannibal Buress, whose YouTube’d comments about Bill Cosby in 2014
> made him famous — a fact that came to annoy him — hired Yondr for a gig in
> 2015._

Understandable why a comedian wouldn't want this kind of fact to be the thing
that makes them famous (as opposed to being famous for just being a good
comedian)...but if someone hadn't recorded his bit on that particular night
and then put it onto YouTube...Bill Cosby would still be doing Jell-O
commercials and other beloved-type activities. I don't mean to trivialize the
various reporting efforts that put Cosby's misdeeds into the public -- Buress
essentially just talked about what he found on Google. But the fact is is that
the allegations against Cosby were publicized, then basically forgotten, to
the point where a prestigious journalist managed to write an entire biography
of Cosby with barely a mention of the allegations. Unfortunately for that
journalist, Buress's bit became viral and the journalist had to shamefully
admit how he had basically ignored that part of Cosby's life [1].

Buress had been doing doing the Cosby-rape-allegation bit for several months
[2]...but it was that particular night and that particular YouTube bootleg
that went viral. I guess it's a credit to Buress's art that he didn't want to
capitalize on a freak viral hit, but as far as freak viral hits go, this had a
relative net positive for both society and for the artist's career (well,
Buress's, not Cosby's).

[1] [http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/bookmark/controversial-
cosb...](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/bookmark/controversial-cosby-bio-
wont-get-810612)

[2] [http://www.cbsnews.com/news/who-is-hannibal-buress-and-
why-d...](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/who-is-hannibal-buress-and-why-did-he-
call-bill-cosby-a-rapist/)

~~~
JacobAldridge
The panel at Vulture rated it as one of history's 100 most influential jokes
for that very reason - [http://www.vulture.com/2016/01/100-jokes-shaped-
modern-comed...](http://www.vulture.com/2016/01/100-jokes-shaped-modern-
comedy-c-v-r.html)

------
vacri
On the whole I like the idea, but for the edge case of those of us that are
on-call, it's one more nail in the coffin of social life.

~~~
kelnos
That's more an argument for automated recovery systems and avoiding single
points of failure (both in infrastructure and people). Even if someone is on-
call, you should be able to do without them for the length of a concert.

I'm getting to the point where I just don't believe in the concept of
requiring particular employees to be quickly reachable 24/7, even for limited
periods of time. I know there are business realities that occasionally make
this impossible (especially for new, small companies, or larger companies
unwilling to properly staff their technical departments), but it's an
unsustainable practice, and I believe we as technical staff owe it to
ourselves to oppose it and find something better.

(And for the record, yes, my company does have on-call rotations, but I do
everything in my power to make myself redundant and unnecessary even when I am
on-call.)

~~~
pdkl95
> avoiding single points of failure

I still don't understand how so many businesses simply ignore this problem.
The network is assumed far too often to be reliable and ubiquitous, even among
people who have years of experience with radio dead zones, oversubscription,
and the numerous other ways networks fail.

> reachable 24/7

While 24/7 (or other excessively long periods of time) should simply be banned
for basic health and safety reasons, I do understand that on-call time is
unavoidable for some businesses. The catch is that any on-call time needs to
be _paid_. How much payment is open to negotiation, but if you are expected to
restrict your life such that you can be called in for overtime, then some
amount of compensation is required.

If this seems impossible due to being paid a salary instead of wages, overtime
limitations/restrictions, or similar nonsense... that's what unions are for.

~~~
majewsky
Wait... on-call time is not paid in the US?

~~~
extra88
I'm not aware of any regulations governing on-call time, there could be some
individual states that have them. Different businesses and industries have
different practices. For hourly employees, labor law probably requires some
compensation at least when a call comes in. For salaried people, compensatory
time when a call comes in could be an option but often times the idea is being
on-call sometimes is factored into your regular pay.

------
thetmkay
I am generally in favour of the idea of phone-free events, and I've been to
one where where my phone was stapled in one of those "static-free" electronics
plastic pouches.

However, how far down the rabbit hole are we going to go here? Security
gates/screenings for phones? Some engineering innovation of a cross between
faraday cage and EMP? Centralized reputation profile for events (a la Uber,
eBay, AirBnb)?

I would love it if everyone just played ball, but one bad apple 'n' all that.

------
Tharkun
It's a stupid idea and a slippery slope. DRM, endless copyright extensions,
3-strikes, DMCA, phone bans. When is the entertainment industry going to be
satisfied?

When everyone has a brain implant that erases the memory of the performance
unless they pay for it? In the case of Alicia Keys that might even be a
blessing.

~~~
bogomipz
This is not about DRM, DCMA or an industry agenda. This is about what behavior
is acceptable in a shared public space. When you buy a ticket to an event you
don't are not buying the ability to take unlimited photo/video at that event.
You also are not entitled to infringing on the ability of other to enjoy that
event but obstructing their view with a hand-held device. Maybe you should
read the article again?

~~~
Tharkun
The article is full of excuses, like the ones you mention. But that's not the
point, at all. The point is still copyright infringement and superstars
somehow dictating what is and isn't acceptable.

Times change. People have cameras in their pockets. They use and abuse them
pretty much 24/7\. I agree that it's a dickish thing to do at a concert, but
that's not the point entirely. That's a societal debate. Not one artist's
decision.

Smoking has been banned in concert halls for nearly as long as I can remember.
No one has ever searched people for cigarettes or forced them to put their
tobacco in magical pouches. Unlike being a dick with your phone, smoking in
enclosed spaces is all sorts of nasty (you know the drill, fire hazard, health
hazard etc).

Depending on where you are, you might get fined. But no one cares enough to
actually enforce that on any kind of regular basis. But somehow, for some
reason, here we have a bunch of people who are apparently willing and able to
force concert-goers to put their phones away. That smells like an industry
agenda to me.

------
buza
Reminds me of the Apple patent for disabling cameras in such situations.

[http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/03/apple-patents-
way-t...](http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/03/apple-patents-way-to-
prevent-concert-piracy/?_r=0)

~~~
oakwhiz
If you captured and replayed the IR flashing signals you might be able to
abuse such a system to prevent people from taking pictures of other things,
such as yourself. I wonder if a little bit of cryptography embedded in the
signal and the phone could make replay attacks more difficult, perhaps
something similar to the codes used by garage door openers and car keyfobs. Or
maybe by encrypting a counter.

If the IR sensor was separate from the camera module you might be able to put
tape over it and prevent the signal from being received by your phone,
defeating it. But if the IR sensor was actually a custom component embedded
inside the CCD chip (which is not out of the question for Apple) then this
would be difficult to defeat. You'd have to carefully mask out the non-IR-
filtered area of the CCD chip with material that filters IR.

------
bogomipz
It's rather sad that its come to this but I applaud this movement. There is
nothing worse than being forced to watch a show through the phone screen of
the incosderate person in front of you.

We are losing our ability to just be in the moment and experience something,
especially something so communal and primitive as a live performance. We
increasingly have a society that seems to believe that every experience needs
to be immediately cataloged and broadcast on social media or somehow it
doesn't count.

There's another aspect to this as well which is people using an artist's
likeness, their image and their material without their permission.

~~~
bigiain
I particularly enjoy it when people hold their iPads above their heads to film
shows - presumably because, ummm, nope I've got nothing except "because
they're self-centered jerks"...

------
lukeholder
Crazy thought (sad that I even have to think about it), but what if a
gun(wo)man entered the room and no one is able to call for help or give the
police his/her position via their phone since it is locked.

~~~
bigiain
I wanna say "Welcome to the security theatre industrial complex", but hey,
Orlando shows this isn't an insane scenario (although, to be fair, like most
things people are irrationally afraid of, I suspect way more people die each
year driving to and from nightclubs that _don't_ get shot up - than have ever
died (no matter how horrifically) in a nightclub shooting...)

~~~
_nedR
Agree with you with on the whole overblown threat thing. But this does raise
the spectre of liability for the concert organisers, artists and the pouch
company.

Sure, the odds of an individual getting attacked at these events is minuscule.
But over time the probability of someone bring a gun into some concert is
pretty high. When that happens and it transpires that people weren't able to
use their phones to seek help, the class-action lawsuits could come. The
obvious solution (to the organisers at least) would be to bring aircraft-level
security into concerts (security patdowns, etc.).

------
Overtonwindow
I get it but I don't like it, and I'd rather avoid the concert. I will agree
not to pull out my phone at concerts, but I'm not giving up my phone. I will
not be disconnected from my family that way. If all else fails I'll razor
blade that pouch open and not bring it out, but they can take that pouch and
go pound sand.

------
kome
I have a tangential curiosity: how many of you live without a cellphone? And
if so, why?

------
beedogs
ITT: angry hipsters who simply cannot put their phones down for any reason
whatsoever.

------
_nalply
Once in a circus with the children, one woman two rows ahead recorded the
performance. I asked my son for his lightsaber and poked her in the back.

------
jagermo
So, what keeps me from opening the bag and take the phone out inside?

~~~
majewsky
Its lock.

~~~
jagermo
It says something about a disc you can slip in and it opens in emergencys or
if you are outside. It does not really make sense to me.

------
ThisIs_MyName
>26 points

I guess this is an unpopular opinion, but I really think my electronics are an
extension of my body. I wouldn't go out without a phone in my pocket the same
way I wouldn't want to lose a couple of digits.

~~~
csydas
I don't think it's necessarily unpopular, albeit perhaps a bit exaggerated. :)

But the concept behind the product, the type of control exerted and enforced
at venues, is interesting. Even though it's just assumed everyone has a
smartphone now, I think there is still a really big rift in how everyone uses
it and sees it. My gf never had a smartphone until incredibly recently and had
been asking me what I thought about them, and it occurred to me that even
though I'm happy to have one, I barely use it. For me it's mostly sudoku on
the metro and finding places in the city, along with occasional email nags
from work and some messaging.

To opine on the article at hand, I do agree with the artists that it's a
better experience to just leave the phone in the pocket - it's how I've done
concerts and performances pretty much since I was interested in going to them,
and with some performances, I see it as a means of respect to the
performer(s).

Admittedly, in a "I know it when I see it" sort of way, the type of show
dictates decorum for me, and there are plenty of shows where it feels more
appropriate to use the phone to share what's going on.

~~~
bigiain
On the other hand, I've had smart phones since before they really were smart
phones - but I still frequently take off for the weekend without my phone,
just because.

(Having said that, my Flickr account is mostly snapshots of events - so I'm no
poster-child for the "no phones at gigs" crowd...)

~~~
majewsky
> I still frequently take off for the weekend without my phone, just because.

Same here, but this has a different quality. When you go offline for a
weekend, it's your own choice. Putting your phone into a Yondr pouch is
someone else's choice.

Within the "smartphone is part of my body" metaphor, it's similar to
voluntarily going on a diet vs. being forced into one by someone else.

~~~
bigiain
One step back though - choosing to go to a gig where they don't want phones is
_also_ a choice.

I wouldn't choose to go to an Alicia Keys gig where they advertised it as
"you'll need to leave your thumb at the door", because I feel my thumb is part
of my body. If you feel your "smartphone is part of your body" perhaps you
need to make the same choice for a show advertised as "you'll need to lock
your phone in a bag if you want to bring it in".

There are other shows at other venues with other demands on what audiences can
and can't bring in to the auditorium. Choose whichever show and set of rules
works for you.

