

Daughter of Tiger Mom responds to controversy - wallflower
http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/why_love_my_strict_chinese_mom_uUvfmLcA5eteY0u2KXt7hM

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BlazingFrog
Probably the wrong crowd considering HN's readership is probably too young to
worry about raising kids... But, as a father of 2 little ones, this "tiger
mom" concept is very intriguing to me.

I don't think there's any doubt these kids will be successful in whatever they
choose to do. My question (and probably for many westerners too): is this
education the best way to raise happy individuals? There seems to be a big
divide between most well-off Asian families and most educated Western families
when it comes to what is the most important thing in life. No doubt there is a
correlation between being happy and successful but one hardly guarantees the
other.

~~~
bendmorris
"I don't think there's any doubt these kids will be successful in whatever
they choose to do."

Based on what? Academic performance through high school? The ability to play
the piano? Are these really good predictors of success?

~~~
potatolicious
No, the ability to pour absurd amounts of time and effort into things that you
despise, because it's good for you in the long run.

That's how I felt as a Chinese kid growing up anyways - there are a fuckton of
things that your parents will force upon you that seem arbitrary, boring, or
downright aggravating, but you have to power through it anyways and still give
100%. Or else. This has proven to be useful in the long run for me.

It's not entirely without negative consequences, though. What is traditionally
deemed "useful" in a Chinese family can be extremely limiting. I spent the
better part of college learning social cues and human interaction that I
honestly should've picked up by age 12, and my folks weren't nearly quite as
restrictive as Tiger Mom herself!

Even now I'm just starting to explore the arts and my own creativity -
something that has basically been trained out of me since birth. It's tough
going.

IMHO the stereotypical Chinese family optimizes its success metric in a very
limiting way: money. If you follow Tiger Mom's formula, you are probably going
to end up with a stable, high-income job, but are going to end up emotionally
pretty miserable. As a Chinese immigrant it's something I've seen again and
again far too often in my own community.

I can't speak for all Chinese, but having been raised in a Tiger-Mom-esque
way, and enjoyed the fruits of its success, I find that I'm spending a large
portion of my income these days fixing what my upbringing broke.

~~~
spacemanaki
David Brooks wrote a column which addressed some of the social issues you
mentioned:

<http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/18/opinion/18brooks.html>

I found it pretty interesting, and it's contributed to my growing respect for
Brooks.

~~~
BlazingFrog
"Practicing a piece of music for four hours requires focused attention, but it
is nowhere near as cognitively demanding as a sleepover with 14-year-old
girls." Love it. Finally something he and I agree on...

------
bugsy
It's not surprising the daughter feels this way. This phenomenon has been
studied in depth.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome>

~~~
potatolicious
I really don't like being so blunt/snarky/rude on HN, but your comment really
irks me.

You are commenting on something you have no experience with, nor intimate
knowledge of, and your only exposure to it a sensationalized book (or worse,
even more sensationalized and hyperbolic _stories_ about said book).

The Tiger Mom thing is not immune from criticism - far from it, but to
insinuate that children that grew up in such families are abused and suffering
from Stockholm Syndrome is _incredibly_ insulting. You've essentially
dismissed all of the complexities of the issue by hand-waving and saying that
their opinions are invalid, they don't know what they're talking about, and
they're all just suffering from a psychological disorder.

I'm trying really hard to stay civil here. But please, _get a fucking clue_
before dropping statements like these and tossing around claims of child
abuse.

~~~
bugsy
I enjoyed your post. It does demonstrate that Tiger mom raised Chinese kids
lack any ability to understand humor, being far too uptight and serious about
stuff.

~~~
potatolicious
Sorry for failing to catch on to your attempt at humor, especially when there
are multiple other posters in the thread, expressing the same view, who
clearly _aren't_ kidding. I apologize for failing to make light of a situation
that seems to be inspiring a whole new round of anti-Chinese racism.

And thank you for the ad hominem, it's really what I've come to expect from a
place like HN.

~~~
bugsy
I enjoyed your post. It does demonstrate that Tiger mom raised Chinese kids
lack any ability to understand gentle ribbing, being far too uptight and
serious about stuff.

------
ebaysucks
18 is too young to know for sure whether the parenting style accomplished
something.

------
ry0ohki
People gave the Tiger Mom death threats? Really? Come on people.

~~~
philk
It's the internet. Almost anything controversial and widely covered will net
you death threats from weirdos.

~~~
kenjackson
Is there a named law for that? If not, there should be.

------
billswift
John Derbyshire wrote an interesting review of the book and general claims
both ways:
[http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/HumanSciences/tigermo...](http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/HumanSciences/tigermom.html)

Two telling quotes from his article:

 _Professor Chua's article was a bracing rebuttal to the sappy-clappy "we're
all special" sentimentality that is too prevalent in American child-raising.
Her methods worked, too, at least in meeting her own goals: Her daughters are
straight-A students, and one has played piano at Carnegie Hall. Probably we
American parents should practice more tough love with our kids and fuss less
about their self-esteem. Few of us would disagree with observations like:
"Nothing is fun until you're good at it. To get good at anything you have to
work, and children on their own never want to work." And assuming "strength,
not fragility" concurs with current scientific understanding of the child's
psyche. They are indeed tough little critters._

And later:

 _Children need some nagging and supervision, but they also need freedom to
explore, to discover their own interests and aptitudes. We may, in our current
child-raising practices, have over-emphasized self-esteem and self-discovery,
but that does not make these notions nugatory. Children are entitled to a
childhood, with frequent spells of play, idleness, and freedom from hovering
adults._

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reedF211
Tiger Moms disgust me. We are born once, we live this life once and after
about 70-80 yrs we are dead buried in the ground as our flesh slowly rots
away. To waste that small amount of time you have on this planet pursuing
success in this ridiculous way is disappointing. There is a reason why asian
countries like Japan where the tigar mom phenomenon is a way of life has one
of the highest suicide rate in the world. As cliche as that sounds I'd rather
have my kid enjoy the childhood and grow up work as a waitress for $15/hr and
be happy than working the kid like a dog, have them grow up to be a doctor
making millions.

I read part of the book and was completely disgusted by it. This person should
be arrested for child abuse and thrown in a Russian gulag and see how it feels
when the shoe is on the other foot!

~~~
potatolicious
Relax. I've seen both sides of the issue - westernized Chinese guy who grew up
under a Tiger Mom-esque "regime". It's really not as bad as your mind seems to
be making it out to be.

Also, your association between Tiger Mom styles of raising children and
suicide rate is pretty specious, and if you'd pardon me for saying so, looks
like an outsider with no context making wild accusations. For one thing, Tiger
Mom is Chinese, and yet the suicide epidemic is largely limited to Japan.

If Tiger Mom styles of raising children existed in both China and Japan, yet
the suicide problem largely contained to Japan, it would seem to suggest that
it is not to blame for the high suicide rate.

Also, the "work like a dog, doctor making millions" vs. "great childhood,
$15/hr waitress" is really a false dichotomy. Most Chinese people who grow up
under a Tiger Mom environment _don't_ end up making millions, and similarly
most children who had a more liberal/free childhood _don't_ end up busing
tables.

I have to say, I'm a bit disappointed in Amy Chua for being so overly
sensationalistic in her book and promotion thereof. I'm not sure if her mother
approves of the extreme, polarizing way in which she is being presented to the
world. The typical Chinese childhood is characterized by extremely high
expectations, but in and of itself it does not entail abuse or even really
misery.

------
gersh
Is she really as strict as she claims in the article? To what extent was she
trolling? She promoted her book big time. Can her daughter cash in too?

------
julius_geezer
[http://www.poetryconnection.net/poets/William_Butler_Yeats/3...](http://www.poetryconnection.net/poets/William_Butler_Yeats/3388)

