
The spectacular power of Big Lens - walterbell
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/may/10/the-invisible-power-of-big-glasses-eyewear-industry-essilor-luxottica
======
andperseand
Being married to an optometrist and privy to some of the numbers of the
business, I'm always a bit annoyed reading these articles. Yes, the margins on
frames are high. Are the overall profits of the business high? Not
particularly. The staffing costs are essentially subsidised by the products
they sell. If you put 'reasonable' markups on the frames, then you have to
make the costs of the eye tests a lot higher to pay for the time of your
expensive staff and then fewer people are willing to get tested and their
problems go unnoticed. Sometimes they are serious enough to be life-
threatening or to cause total loss of vision. Your GP is not going to notice a
bulging optic disc for example.

So while I appreciate the consumer sentiment of 'This looks like I'm being
ripped off', I think the current pricing model is actually in the best
interest of public health. Even SpecSavers model of 30min appointments is a
bit suspect really.

~~~
jschwartzi
Yeah, if you consider the actual cost of visits, the end product has to
subsidize the entire business. It took 3 visits for me to get contacts. The
contacts were about $200 for a year's supply, and each visit was about $60.00.
Each of the people involved has to make a part of that as their pay, and on
top of that they have to rent an office, maintain stock, lease equipment,
etc.. All to sell me some squishy bits of hydrogel for less than what a cell
phone costs. I'm really surprised if they broke even on me.

~~~
jpatokal
But _why_ did it take you three visits to get contacts?

It's also interesting that hard (RGP) contacts, which last essentially
forever, are now virtually impossible to buy from high-street opticians.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigid_gas_permeable_lens](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigid_gas_permeable_lens)

~~~
andperseand
Contact lenses aren't always easy to fit. Especially if you are correcting for
astigmatism. There's sizing, weighting, permeability and the unmeasured but
distinct differences between brands. There's also the choice of changing the
actual powers involved for different reasons. So people have to take them
away, try them for comfort and such... Three visits is pretty normal. If you
are a keratoconic then 3 visits would be a very easy case...

------
ScottBurson
Slightly OT, but I can't resist mentioning a blog post of mine:
[http://scottlburson2.blogspot.com/2016/01/lcd-backlights-
and...](http://scottlburson2.blogspot.com/2016/01/lcd-backlights-and-eyeglass-
lenses.html)

Anyone with a correction of more than 3 or 4 diopters in either direction, who
uses a wide-gamut monitor, might want to take note of this. This includes
anyone with a 2016 or newer MacBook Pro.

~~~
no_identd
Assuming you have Anisometropia (difference in prescription strength between
the two eyes), this is only half the deal.

You'll additionally want so called /Iseikonic/ glasses, which equalize the
magnification/minification between the two lenses, AND THUS also equalize the
angles of prismatic diversion induced outside the center of vision by glasses.
This SIGNIFICANTLY reduces eye strain.

------
gumby
The mechanics of lens and frames aren’t _yet_ within the reach of 3D printing,
unfortunately.

The current system is absurd and unsustainable.

These guys look interesting (met them at a conference; haven’t tried the
product though): they use your phone to scan your face, show you what various
frames will look like on your face _as you move it_, make custom frames and
lenses on demand, and ship them to you.
[https://www.topologyeyewear.com](https://www.topologyeyewear.com)

The app seems to work pretty well, but as I said I haven’t tried the real
product.

------
no_identd
1\. That's a terrible pun in the article title that some Americans might miss

2\. And here I had hoped this article might go into the details of the
HORRENDOUS patent lockdown between Zeiss, Rodenstock, Hoya, Essilor, Shaw
Lens, and numerous other vendors, who OF COURSE all refuse to license to each
other which essentially forces consumers to use lenses built with a hodgepodge
between completely outdated technology and cutting edge technology. Imagine
running your modern GPU with an 486 as a CPU - or vice versa.

------
crystaln
There are so many cheap online manufacturers. I feel like this is more the
last gasp of an overpriced overserviced industry, like if there was a
consolidation of travel agents in 2003.

~~~
ink_13
Unfortunately, for people with even moderately complicated prescriptions
(e.g., even mild astigmatism), there's no substitute for in-person fitting, as
the lens centre must be precisely located.

~~~
dharmab
You just have to measure your interpupillary distance with an accurate ruler.
It's very easy with either a mirror or a friend's help.

~~~
jsmith99
With a moderate astigmatism you need to center it vertically too, and that's
not really possible without trying the frame on and seeing how it sits.

~~~
hengheng
Does that number change over time? Sounds like a one-time calibration, pretty
much like my jeans size.

~~~
yborg
No, it varies with each frame and lens shape. My eyes are offset vertically
and I have severe astigmatism and it usually takes more than one visit to get
proper fitting.

~~~
walterbell
EyeBuyDirect and FramesDirect (both owned by Essilor) will remake your glasses
with correct pupil/fitting height. Order the first pair, adjust them for
correct fit, including pantoscopic tilt, then measure the vertical position of
pupil. Make any compensation needed for tilt, then return the frame for a free
remake with the new value.

When you order the same frame again, you can specify your custom fitting
height.

~~~
jschwartzi
Or walk in to an optometrist and have them competently do all of that for you
and then sell you the glasses.

~~~
walterbell
There is broad variability in competence of individual opticians, whether
independent or at a chain store. If you have access to a competent local
optician in your city, wonderful. If you don't, there's no reason to pay 10X
prices for worse service than you can obtain yourself with a few minutes of
measurements. Unlike an optician who needs to fit a wide variety of customer
faces, you only need to fit a single face, which is a one-time learning
exercise.

~~~
no_identd
We meet again, Mr. Bell. I think you might have missed the last bunch of
replies I gave you, you might wish to check!

There's one other thing those online vendors can't give you:

Wavefront aberrometer guided glasses. Unfortunately the industry sits at a
shitty place here. Nearly all doctors don't buy those. And even if they do,
their measurements aren't portable to the vendor systems. So instead,
opticians have those. But opticians can't use cycloplegia, which you do need
to get a proper wavefront measurement - and even if you can arrange that (say,
by hurrying to your optician very quickly after a doctors visit), you'll run
into the problem that most opticians don't configure those devices correctly,
leaving them at the vendor default of 3 measurement cycles (instead of the 5
it takes to get statistically useful results), don't check for ring defects on
the scan, and so on. It's a mess.

------
rurban
But the technical best frames are still made in Austria, Silhouette. Light and
frameless titan, unbreakable.

The Italians or Fielmann haven't figured out that yet.

~~~
no_identd
And the aesthetically best frames are also still made in Austria -
[http://schau-schau.at/en/](http://schau-schau.at/en/)

~~~
rurban
Only if you like Bulgarian style intellectuals. I heard this is modern in
Vienna right now.

I was talking about invisible frames and invisible glasses, as light as
possible.

------
bagrow
Any chance of 3D-printing lenses? Frames seem easy, but being able to automate
lens creation may be able to bypass these big monopolies.

Whatever happened to these water-filled lenses?
[https://gizmodo.com/5116969/eyeglasses-with-fluid-filled-
sac...](https://gizmodo.com/5116969/eyeglasses-with-fluid-filled-sac-for-
worlds-poor-are-instantly-adjustable) (2008)

~~~
gaius
_Any chance of 3D-printing lenses?_

Yes, it's called "grinding", it's how all lenses used to be made. For like,
500 years.

Next up: can we make lenses on the blockchain?

~~~
mmagin
I suspect a lot of the polymer lenses are cast to a rough shape and then
ground/polished a relatively small amount to reach the final dimension.

------
com2kid
Buying non-Luxottica frames is pretty easy. Go to any smaller eye glass shop
and odds are they will have independently made frames, sometimes even locally
made.

As for cheap lens, you get what you pay for. Improvements in lens materials,
such as Trivex, have made life quantifiable better, and lens coatings get
better and better all the time. Anyone else remember the first generation of
transition lens? Compared to today's coating, is a world of difference. But in
regards to being accessible, head down to Costco (no membership card needed)
and pick up a pair of quality polycarb lens.

I also find it difficult to believe that England only has 4 frame makers, when
I am pretty sure there are more than that in the Pacific Northwest alone!

