
Lime and Bird are growing rapidly - lingzb
https://www.futureengine.org/articles/scooters-are-worth-10b
======
numair
I have spent a lot of time observing this phenomenon in Venice; here are some
of my thoughts.

What these scooters have done for SM-Venice is, they’ve gotten people to park
farther away and spend less time in cars. Especially the tourists. What does
that mean for locals? Well, for one, it means that the _nuisance_ of having to
drive slow past people on these things, rather than the _nightmare_ of sitting
in standstill traffic if all of those people were in cars instead. Summer
traffic in Venice was definitely helped by the scooters, as they replaced a
bit of car traffic. These “short haul mobility vehicles” make it much easier
for larger groups of people to engage in a large, spread-out, mostly-
pedestrian area.

They’re completely dorky and I’ll never be caught dead on one... but, at the
same time, there’s serious benefits to us all that these things exist. There’s
definitely problems (not sure how I feel about seeing them in piles outside of
public schools, such as Venice High, and there’s something very Idiocracy-
esque in watching them being used by people who would benefit from walking),
but I find it to be an overall net-positive.

I’m interested to see where the next form factors go, and how these things
factor into future urban planning decisions. Especially within geofenced
environments where you don’t have to pay for them, they just exist. There’s a
lot to ponder here.

~~~
ZoomZoomZoom
>>They’re completely dorky and I’ll never be caught dead on one

Sorry for asking, but are you thirteen?

~~~
6cd6beb
I'm in my early thirties and feel the same way.

A lot of people do. Looking at something and saying "I don't think I would do
that because it would be very embarrassing" is a thing adults can do.

~~~
ZoomZoomZoom
>> Looking at something and saying "I don't think I would do that because it
would be very embarrassing" is a thing adults can do.

And its exactly a moment when one should stop for a second and ask him/herself
a question "why would I feel so"?

Wearing glasses, reading books, dyeing hair with some tint, preferring pieces
of clothing of some fashion or other, riding a personal vehicle that is
supposedly beneficial for ecology (at least at the level of common knowledge)
AND evidently improving quality of urban life - all of that shouldn't be
embarrassing, or "completely" "socially inept"[1]. Wearing dirty clothes when
you have the means not to or not looking after your hygiene should (and I
can't really recall anything else at a moment's notice).

[https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/dorky](https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/dorky)

~~~
jobigoud
Dyeing hair and choosing clothes are a matter of style preference, so why
can't people think they don't like their style appearance on a scooter?

I agree it's weird but clearly as we see for cars, choice of vehicle is also
driven by style preferences. E.g most people wouldn't buy a pink car with
green polka dots.

~~~
ZoomZoomZoom
>>why can't people think they don't like their style appearance on a scooter

They certainly can. Calling something with a particular epithet means it bears
this particular quality, which is not subjective. The opinion is, but the
characterization is not.

------
Uehreka
I live in Baltimore and these things have been awesome. Over the summer and
early fall, I used them a lot for trips that were between 3-15 blocks. They
were usually less than half the price of a Lyft, were fun to drive, don't
directly use fossil fuels and were usually available (in one app or the other)
within a block or two of my house. I used them to meet friends for brunch, to
pick up my car from getting worked on, to go to bars near my house and to go
vote in November.

Now that it's gotten colder, I think my range for using them will contract to
something like 2-8 blocks, but I don't think I'll cut off using them entirely.
I don't notice them being "piled up" anywhere (except for at a street
festival, but lots of people were picking them up too), and I don't think I've
ever run into a situation where my path was actively blocked by one.

Baltimore used to have a bike share, but I've heard it's being shut down and
even when it was up they had a hard time keeping bikes in all the stalls.

~~~
pfisch
"don't directly use fossil fuels"

Looks like Maryland uses a significant amount of coal to power their grid, so
is this even a good thing?

~~~
Relys
Yes, because in the long term electric vehicles consolidate fossil fuel
emissions to a single large point (coal in this case) which can be eventually
replaced with a clean energy source (i.e. solar, wind, hydro, nuclear, etc.).

~~~
baroffoos
Also coal powerplants run much more efficiently than a car engine.

~~~
christophclarke
Internal combustion engines operate at about 25% efficiency (per this paper,
page 54)

[https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/5764...](https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/57640/mpapke_1.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y)

Coal power plants operate in the range of 34% efficiency

[https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=107&t=3](https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=107&t=3)

[https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/html/epa_08_02.html](https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/html/epa_08_02.html)

~~~
Rebelgecko
I wonder how much of that gets offset by transmission loss and the scooter's
charging/discharging inefficiencies?

Not that that would be a reason not to use scooters in and off itself, since
they're be posed to take advantage of grids that will hopefully become more
and more renewable over time

------
fourmii
These scooters and scooter companies seem pretty divisive, especially on HN. I
understand they're operating in grey areas, I guess kinda like Uber before
them, but they are causing (I think) positive disruption.

I personally love these scooters. I'm living in Australia now where we don't
have them. But last month I took a 3 week road trip from LAX to DC and back so
I could hit cities I hadn't been to before. And in many of these cities, I
used a Bird to get around. These scooters opened up so much more of these
cities for me than I could have seen if I just walked every where.

I think they provide real value to a city, for tourists to get around, and for
citizens for the last mile and to complement other forms of transport. We just
need for these scooter companies to be less like Uber and actually work with
the cities to come up with reasonable regulations (in particular insisting on
all riders wearing helmets)

~~~
cortesoft
I think the big issue that most people have with them is the large externality
of having scooters littered around the sidewalk.

In a lot of places in West Los Angeles, you are having to step around them
constantly if you walk down the street. People literally just drop them in the
middle of the sidewalk, because there is no incentive for them to not do that.

This means that everyone who doesn't use the service has to suffer.

~~~
beambot
Curious thought: Disincentivize bad behavior. Scooter companies know who the
last user was, so they could develop techniques to apply "parking violations."
Whether that means GPS-enabled (sufficient resolution?) or crowdsourced (next
rider taking picture) doesn't really matter. But this is like the automobile
equivalent of a parking ticket.

~~~
ravenstine
What incentive would Lime and Bird have to do this? I think that'd have to
come about through policy being passed in enough cities.

~~~
cortesoft
Right, this is what makes it an externality... Lime and Bird don't care about
it, because the cost is born by people who are not customers. They have no
incentive to fix the problem unless forced to.

~~~
beambot
I assume they care about it massively, lest cities drop the hammer a la SF.

Also: it's a fun exercise to go back in time and look at all the laws
sponsored by automotive & oil companies to create today's car culture (case in
point: streetcars). I assure you: there was a lot of protectionism & it wasn't
always about the consumer.

------
lbacaj
Facts are facts but to me this always seemed like the dumbest idea. I thought
it was a dumb idea before the City Bike program was introduced here in NYC
then I thought so many people would get hurt with the way Cabbies drive out
here.

Fast forward a few years and the program is a huge success here in NYC, there
was some accidents but no where near what I thought there would be. People
obviously love Biking and I was completely wrong.

What’s even crazier now I think with the technology and access becoming even
easier this has the power to completely transform cities. Obviously people
love this and politicians that don’t support it will be voted out, it’s
looking more and more like there could be entire roads dedicated to bikes and
scooters as this becomes more popular.

Mayor Bloomberg wanted to limit the amount of cars in the city and put a toll
on any any cars going below 95th street in Manhattan, people rebelled back
then but if something like this had been in place the Cabbies and Car owners
would be out of luck.

~~~
the_clarence
It’s hard to grasp for older generations because everyone had to drive. But
less and less people have a driver license nowadays in large cities.

~~~
asdff
Cars are fundamentally, egregiously inefficient. Most of their use comes from
one person going to one place using one of their 5+ seats, yet automakers have
to design an engine powerful enough to move 5+ people, and the 3000lbs of the
car. A scooter only needs enough energy to move one person plus the 15lbs of
the scooter. Older generations are blind to this fact because their entire
life they've been sold the idea that they need to buy and spend money moving
and storing a 3000lb hunk of metal with them every single day. Imagine paying
money to go somewhere, knowing full well the major percent of that money is
going to move a ton+ of material, and only a fraction is spent to move your
physical body; you'd be outraged, but that is what a car is.

------
smallgovt
My guess is that Lime and Bird's latest investors don't actually believe in
these insane valuations. Instead, they see these companies as a safe place to
park their money due to the limited downside provided by liquid preference
terms.

~~~
taylorswift_
I discovered scooters recently and have rode them in three major cities during
the past month. I have to say it is the most genius consumer tech product I've
seen in a long time. I instantly felt a sense of "wow" after riding the first
one (bird). The entire experience is so simple, so elegant (ui/ux), cheap,
efficient, and most importantly FUN. I looked up bird and lime to discover
they'd each received over 400M in funding and it makes perfect sense to me.
This is a disruptive technology that's going to see major adoption in every
city across the entire planet. You have to ride one to understand, especially
in an urban, downtown, waterfront or metro type area. They're going to easily
cut into bikeshare and short-trip rideshare services. Take a ride and you'll
see, #scootlife!

Also worth noting, none of the technology is itself "new", but rather bird &
lime particularly have packaged existing technologies together to make a
product with all the qualities mentioned above. Innovation is usually just a
twist on something that's already out there.

~~~
briandear
I liked it so much, I bought my own for my commute. It kept me from buying a
second car, and ultimately saving 25 miles of driving each day.

~~~
bradlys
Holy crap. You ride on one of those standing electric scooters for at least 37
minutes each way?! (20 mph) That's a long time... I could understanding biking
but not stand up scootering.

~~~
JeffreyKaine
It's just standing for 37 minutes. I suppose you engage your core a bit here
and there, but it really isn't an exercise like biking would be.

I love these scooters BTW, super convenient!

------
scelerat
In West Oakland I see many people using the Ford Bikes, but yet even more
people using the Lime scooters. Kids, adults, techies, non-techies.

I think they look kind of dorky, and some end up on the sidewalk and dumped in
Lake Merritt. On the other hand, it appears that people are using these
scooters a lot, possibly instead of driving. That seems like a positive
outcome to me.

~~~
the_clarence
I don’t understand why people say that they look dorky. Didn’t you have this
scooter trend like 20 years ago in the US? We sure had that in Europe.

~~~
kaybe
Currently there is a huge trend at the Chaos Communication Congress because
the new buildings are so big and the distances far. Last year many places were
actually sold out. It's even better if you outfit it with some LEDs and stuff!
(So if anyone is going this year - wheels recommended.)

------
buzzy_hacker
I really liked riding them until I realized how expensive they were. When you
use them everyday, it adds up quick. Hundreds of dollars a month. I now bike
everywhere instead and wonder why others don't.

I could see using them when traveling, where I wouldn't have my bike with me.

------
askaboutit
Stand up scooters feel so unstable. Why not just add a seat and allow a seated
scooter that’s foldable. The problem with last mile transport is that the laws
in many countries need electric bikes to have peddles and peddle assistance.
Just let people have a certain power and max speed and they will drop the car
and replace it with a powered scooter. Aka, China.

~~~
hocuspocus
*Pedal.

Some EU countries have already announced that scooters will soon be treated
similarly to e-bikes, i.e. max 250W and 25km/h for the ones that don't need
registration and plates.

While more expensive and less portable, a bike is a lot safer and more
versatile.

~~~
briandear
A bike is safer? Definitely need some citations for that. Versatility is
debatable. I can fold my scooter and put it under my table at a restaurant or
toss it into the trunk of a car. Scooters are also extremely low maintenance:
no flat tires, no need to carry a pump or patch kit.

~~~
baroffoos
The bigger wheels give it much better stability. Hitting a hole or rock on a
bike and a scooter is a very different experience. lots of the scooter
steering setups make it very easy for the front wheel to suddenly turn 90
degrees and send you flying

------
sonofaplum
Full disclosure, I'm anti scooter. People drive them on the sidewalks, leave
them in front of my front door, and I genuinely hope that both of these
companies, specifically, fail.

With that disclosure, was anyone else horrified that the lifespan of these
scooters is only 3 months?

Are they really removing enough vehicle trips to make these a net positive
from an environmental standpoint?

~~~
qudat
> People drive them on the sidewalks

Where else would they drive them? On the road? They would just contribute to
the thousands of cyclists that die or are seriously injured every year.

If you are suggesting that every electric vehicle be banned because sidewalks
are for pedestrians only then I disagree. Streets are for cars only, don't let
these fake bike lanes fool you.

~~~
sonofaplum
Vehicles that move faster than pedestrians should go on the road, like
bicycles do. As a bike rider, its a vastly superior option that going on the
sidewalk.

~~~
anonytrary
In more developed areas, there are three options. Fast (main road for cars),
medium (bike lane) and slow (sidewalks). I'd imagine birds would ride in the
medium and slow lanes. They go up to 15 MPH, which is the run-speed of a
human. Should runners be on the bike lane? I don't think so.

~~~
xur17
> In more developed areas, there are three options. Fast (main road for cars),
> medium (bike lane) and slow (sidewalks). I'd imagine birds would ride in the
> medium and slow lanes.

And to be clear 'bike lane' != road shoulder with a bike painted on it. A bike
lane should have at least some amount of separation from the road in the same
way that sidewalks are separated.

I'm hopeful that the popularity of scooters speeds up the adoption of medium
speed lanes.

------
mr_overalls
Anybody miss the days when companies were named something that was at least
tangentially related to their function?

~~~
cortesoft
When was this?

You might just be thinking it used to be that way because when a new
company/product becomes successful, their brand name becomes the term for the
thing.

Kleenex

Xerox

Google

Asprin

Hoover

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_trademark](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_trademark)

~~~
tomjakubowski
Xerox's name was meant to evoke its business:

> Looking for a term to differentiate its new system, Haloid coined the term
> xerography from two Greek roots meaning "dry writing".

"Aspirin" was named for the Spiraea ulmaria plant used in its synthesis.

"Borax" is sodium borate.

"Kleenex" helps keep your nose and face and surroundings clean.

------
albertgoeswoof
I have friends in London and commuter towns buying scooters for their own use-
despite knowing that they can’t ride them legally. There are none for hire
here. When are they arriving?

~~~
easytiger
Given C. London pavements are incredibly narrow, inexorably busy and often
uneven, people on these things are a nightmare. Even non electric ones are a
nightmare.

------
dawhizkid
It's strange that even though SF approved 2 scooter companies to operate that
I feel like I rarely see anyone actually use vs what I saw when Bird/Lime were
here.

~~~
dilap
SF didn't want to make BART feel bad by providing actual competent transit
options, so we got the joke that is Skip/Scoot.

Seriously, this city has convinced me democracy doesn't work. Maybe China
should regime change us.

Edit: stingrae points lack of availability may be the City's fault, rather
than Skip/Scoot. _No sé_ \-- but for sure the city's intervention took a
useful, environmentally friendly transit option and made it non-useful.

~~~
stingrae
Out of curiosity, what is your issue with skip/scoot? All the services seems
to be similar to me?

~~~
dilap
I haven't tried 'em in a bit, so to be fair, maybe it's better now.

But last time I tried:

Scooter coverage was too sparse to be useful.

If you did try to chase down one of the sparsely scattered scooters, usually
it would be missing. No way to make it play a sound to help locate it, no way
to report it was missing.

Gave up and just kept skating everywhere. Whereas I found Lime and Bird to be
a practical alternative mode of transport, before they got kicked out.

~~~
stingrae
That sounds like a different issue. SF limited the number of scooters each
company, Skip/Scoot, could deploy. When Bird and Lime launched in the city
they had no limits, so they flooded it with scooters.

~~~
dilap
Good point.

------
sleepinseattle
Interestingly I just noticed Lime-branded Fiat cars in Seattle for the first
time yesterday. Looks like they're taking on Car2Go and ReachNow.

Looks like it launched a couple weeks ago:
[https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-
news/transportation/bik...](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-
news/transportation/bike-share-company-lime-launching-car-rental-service-in-
seattle/)

~~~
lingzb
I really want to try this. I think easy car sharing could be huge and it'd be
amazing to be rid of the hassle that is car ownership (monthly parking,
insurance, maintenance, etc.)

------
tjr225
I am a frequent user of lime bikes. I think they have a few drawbacks that
make them difficult to use all the time however. Mostly:

1\. Consistently Well Working Bikes can be hard to find

2\. I often use these to get from the residential part of Seattle to the urban
parts for date night... it can be very difficult to find two of these near
each other.

3\. They really need some sort of limited reservation system. This would help
mitigate the difficulty of getting multiple bikes.

~~~
Rebelgecko
Bird is actually rolling out reservations, although I think it's more intended
for daily users (they say they'll drop a scooter off on your doorstep every
morning and only you can unlock it).

~~~
IshKebab
At that point why not just buy a scooter?

~~~
blhack
Because then you have to worry about it getting stolen, and you have to
remember to charge it. Part of the magic of the birds is that when you're
done, you just get off of it and park. 0 anxiety about somebody stealing it.

~~~
kaybe
Are they too big to just fold and store under your desk or whatever? They
don't look that big in the pictures.

------
whymsicalburito
This article says these scooters make $16/day in revenue?! Where are they
making that kind of money? The scooters in my city just sit in the same place
for DAYS without moving... I don't buy those numbers at all...

~~~
cortesoft
Bit of a selection bias... you are much more likely to notice the ones that
are in the same spot day after day, and not notice the once that are in
constant use.

This is the average revenue, I am sure there are some that generate a lot
less/barely any.

~~~
whymsicalburito
Even with some of them being in constant use, the math still doesn't work out.

~~~
jjxw
Pricing for Bird looks like $1 to unlock and $.15 / minute to ride. I think
it's not unrealistic to see utilization of at least 5 rides per day for $5 of
revenue + average of 15 minutes per ride for the other $11 to get to $16 /
day.

It's likely that there's a few that are much more highly utilized to balance
out those that are not utilized at all.

------
chuckgreenman
The problem with these scooters is that they are great as a user, but terrible
for everyone else. They are a lot of fun to ride, but if you're just a regular
old pedestrian they are a nightmare, people park them in the streets and pass
by you way to quickly and closely on the sidewalk.

But riding them in the street pisses off drivers and is pretty dangerous, at
least that's how it shakes out in Cincinnati.

~~~
prawn
_" The problem with these scooters is that they are great as a user, but
terrible for everyone else."_

So, like cars?

------
oh_hello
I finally had a chance to try one out recently and was very frustrated with
the experience. After attempting to use several shown on Bird's map I gave up.
Some were broken, some were almost certainly being hoarded inside of apartment
buildings, and some simply could not be found anywhere near the map marker.
The experience was a huge letdown after being tempted to try the product so
many times.

------
samfisher83
I loved using Lime, but I can see cities banning it like SF. You aren't
supposed to ride the scooter on side walks and many people do it. People just
leave it in random places and I know some cities don't like this.

~~~
whyenot
Someone somehow managed to abandon one on the roof (7th floor) of my work
building. Getting the damn thing down to the ground floor and out of the
building was not a lot of fun. Moving it locked up the wheels and triggered
the alarm. It even announced through a speaker that it was "calling the
police." With some help I was able to get it down, moved into a service
elevator, and escorted out of the building. The stupid thing would not shut
up. Someone must have come by and collected it because it was gone by the end
of the day.

Pain in the ass, and the company, in typical Silicon Valley fashion, didn't
have any information on their website about how to contact a real person or to
report an abandoned scooter. If this is going to be a regular thing, where I
have to be an impromptu scooter wrangler, I want my cut :)

~~~
Cristian_knur
Bird is different. They have real people answering the phone or email all the
time.

Disclaimer: I work for Bird.

------
Beefin
DC had a scooter death a couple months ago marking among the first in the
country: [https://dc.curbed.com/2018/9/26/17905378/electric-scooter-
de...](https://dc.curbed.com/2018/9/26/17905378/electric-scooter-death)

The wheels are way too small for some of the pot holes in cities.

~~~
randyrand
Involving a car. I wonder if these scooters will cause a death anytime soon
without needing to use a car. That would be much more interesting.

~~~
Cristian_knur
Someone died the other day in a Lime scooter after hitting a tree.

If you search for news on scooter accidents you will see they are more likely
with Limes. Why not Bird? Because Bird throttles the speed according to the
current laws (15mph) while Limes go sometimes up to 20mph.

Disclaimer: I work for Bird.

~~~
the_clarence
When are you guys coming to SF? I don’t have a driver license so I can’t use
the shitty alternatives we have at the moment.

------
analogmemory
As a cyclist, I'm hopeful that these bike/scooter/wheel-shares programs will
force governments to examine their plans for keeping people safe. More low-
speed travel lanes for bikes, scooters, one-wheels, hoverboards, etc. Keep the
sidewalks for walking and wheelchairs.

Otherwise we are sure to end up like China in these photos:
[https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2018/03/bike-share-
oversup...](https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2018/03/bike-share-oversupply-
in-china-huge-piles-of-abandoned-and-broken-bicycles/556268/)

~~~
the_clarence
Less cars! These huge roads need to be shared to other modes of
transportation.

~~~
rb666
Exactly this, Americans need to detox from their truck-obsession. Size of your
car does not make you a tough guy.

------
rb808
Lime and Bird have collectively raised nearly a billion dollars within 14
months of founding at valuations of $1.1 billion and $2 billion, respectively.

For reference, American Airlines has market cap of $18 billion and 950 jet
planes.

~~~
numair
Actually, I’m pretty sure American Airlines has 950 jet planes _on lease_ ,
and they have a century’s worth of pension and other obligations that remain
hidden in their books.

Companies are far too complicated to compare based on single numbers. Try not
to make this mistake —- it’s great for clickbait, not so much for critical
thinking.

~~~
rb808
$41B on the balance sheet. [https://americanairlines.gcs-
web.com/node/36886/html](https://americanairlines.gcs-web.com/node/36886/html)

Yes they do have debt. $44B of revenue. Still Lime and Bird valuations are
insane.

------
Tade0
One interesting thing about these scooters is that their lifetime CO2
emissions are actually slightly less than a that of a vegan on a bicycle.

That is given the following assumptions are correct:

-A vegan on a bicycle has a carbon footprint of 22g/km of CO2.

-The scooters are Xiaomi Mi electric scooters with a 330Wh(approx based on specs) battery of the type with the biggest CO2 footprint(250kg/kWh).

-Electricity comes exclusively from coal(1kg/kWh of CO2).

With these assumptions the break-even point is 7500km or 4700 miles - that's
approx. one charge each workday.

------
redbrickroad
> The big wild card, though, is whether Uber or Lyft buy Lime or Bird. Uber is
> talking to both companies about an acquisition so this is not just a
> hypothetical question.

Why would Uber buy either of these companies? Uber already has JUMP scooters.
Can't they afford to create way more scooters than either Lime or Bird?

Sure, Uber isn't one of the two companies who are part of the scooter pilot in
SF. Still, I doubt that justifies spending hundreds of millions or even
billions of dollars on buying a company.

------
randyrand
A lot of this evaluation assumes the price stays the same. $1 + 15 cents a
minute.

I think we'll see prices come down 80%. These scooter companies will face more
competition than uber and Lyft do because people are happy grabbing the first
scooter they see when walking.

My personal scooter costs a third of a cent per mile of electricity + $350 to
buy it. I'm at 150 miles so far, and could easily see this thing lasting a few
thousand. So ~20 cents a mile.

~~~
onlyrealcuzzo
They have a life cycle of 3 months, so $3 per day.

They can only be ridden for 50 minutes before they need charged, which costs
$20, which comes down to $0.40 a minute.

I don't see the unit cost economics, let alone how the prices could come down
by 80%.

~~~
randyrand
The lifecycle will increase dramatically. Just a few parts need to be beefier.
The motor and battery can last a long time.

Its 12 cents to charge, and I imagine there will be city infrastructure added
to accommodate charging on the streets. Pay someone a dollar to plug it in to
the nearest streetlamp at the end of their ride.

------
kerng
Will be interesting if Uber or Lyft will postpone IPO in favor or buying one
of them. Cant imagine it's possible to acquire one of them and still IPO in
near future - but who knows. Exciting to see scooters and bikes get nice
adoption! Changing the form factor to be more like a mini car (with at least a
seat) would be neat, scooters just dont feel that safe.

~~~
whoisjuan
Uber has around 7 billion (last time I heard) and this year they will lose
around 5 billion, maybe more.

Uber is on track to run out of money in 2019, so a financial event is
inmminent. I don't know if we will see an Uber 2019 IPO, but if it doesn't
happen is more likely due to the current bear market and not so much because
they are considering a large acquisition.

If they acquire a scooter company I presume they will do it through a mix of
debt and a heavy stock component. In fact it seems that they already raised
another 2 billion through private placement bonds.

------
torgian
Reading the comments here make me chuckle. I honestly find it mind boggling
that people would complain of bicycles taking up space, let alone scooters.

I love the bike share programs in Taiwan and China. I haven’t used a car in
years. Yeah some people trash the bikes but most people at least seem to give
a shit.

Why this is such an issue in the West, I can’t understand...

~~~
the_clarence
People in the US love their big cars...

------
dvt
I cannot _stand_ the Limes and Birds around Santa Monica.

I walk out of my apartment, and the streets are _littered_ with them. It's
annoying when walking, it's even more annoying when jogging, and riders are
constantly riding them (without helmets) on sidewalks even though we have bike
lanes. They're even a nuisance when driving.

I'm hoping for some legislation that will ban them -- I might set up a
grassroots campaign myself. It's mostly the tourists using them, anyway.

~~~
dboon
I was actually in Santa Monica / Venice area for the first time a few weeks
ago. I was /floored/ with how many scooters there were. I live in Atlanta and
find them to be super awesome and unintrusive, but I could understand how the
sheer quantity could put you off of them.

At least realize that they aren't so ridiculously overpopulated in other
places -- it's probably the tourists that make it financially worth it to put
out a deluge of them.

~~~
dvt
I was in Atlanta last month, and outside of Midtown (Tech/GSU), I didn't see
them anywhere else. Here, we have them in SM/Venice, in Westwood, in Culver
City, in DTLA, etc.

~~~
zeendo
They're all over Atlanta. Midtown probably has the highest density of them but
they're all over downtown, west midtown, Old 4th ward, Decatur, Reynoldstown,
Cabbagetown, etc.

Go down Memorial or DeKalb heading east in the morning and you'll see rows and
rows of them freshly set out ready to be kicked over like dominos by some
jerk.

------
jv22222
It would be cool if these things helped cities make streets safer for all
cyclists and small vehicles.

I can imagine that VC's won't like articles like this and that may have a
knock on effect of making cities better in the long term.

[https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/09/24/e-scooter-deaths-
unde...](https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/09/24/e-scooter-deaths-underscore-
the-urgent-need-for-safer-streets/)

------
wavefunction
They're a menace to society given the un-insured nature of their services. A
local journalist had some scooter doofus run into her vehicle badly enough to
damage the ability to open the driver's side door, then he turned around and
claimed she hit him. So she was facing having a record of striking a
pedestrian on her driver's and insurance records and was only saved by footage
from a surveillance camera. What a joy!

------
rocketpastsix
It's funny to see this just after in Nashville a Bird user ran a red light and
got hit by a car. Now I know this user is not indicitive of all users, but
it's enough to galvinize the people against them.

I say this as someone who loves them. I hope they stick around, but its only a
matter of time someone in a party city like Nashville is drunk and ends up
getting hit leading to a death.

------
zwieback
I'm curious to find out what the usage in winter will be, I can't image it
will be very popular in rainy or snowy climates.

------
umvi
Remind me again why they are allowed to litter all the public sidewalks and
street corners with their scooters?

Regulation hasn't caught up yet?

~~~
albertgoeswoof
Why are cars allowed to litter the public roads and park all over the place,
taking up a massive amount of space with mostly empty seats and driven around
less than 10% of the time?

~~~
sdinsn
It's not littering since local statues have rules about parking. FYI, in some
areas, parking _is_ illegal, and in _most areas_ leaving your car in a spot
for too long will allow the city to tow it.

Since the majority of places don't have statues for scooters, the default
actually is littering, it's no different than dumping anything else on the
sidewalk.

~~~
gibolt
Scooters are definitively vehicles. What would governments do if people just
started parking bikes and scooters in free full-size car parking spaces :)

~~~
trhway
Scooters aren't vehicles licensed for public roads. So it will probably still
be littering, of public roads and parking spaces this time.

~~~
xur17
But you're supposed to ride them in the roads in most cities.

------
lazyjones
Is the business model sustainable? They do need people to pick these scooters
up, charge them at home and deploy them somewhere.

~~~
asdff
Like any gig economy job, people have gotten religious at it. There's a guy by
my neighborhood who drives slowly with a brand new sprinter van while another
loads the scooters into the moving vehicle. There is no shortage of people
willing to rack up $100 a day on the side.

------
ph0rque
Just noticed them in my parents' town (50k population) this past weekend.

------
the_clarence
Just waiting to be able to ride one in San Francisco without a driver license
(which is impossible right now). I can’t wait to be able to commute short
distances without having to take cabs everywhere.

------
andrewmutz
I would love to see some stats on repeat usage.

Is this a fad where people just want to try something new? Or are people
actually shifting regular transportation to these?

------
bluescrn
Wish they’d legalise electric scooters here in the UK.

------
billsmithaustin
“Lime recently indicated their latest scooters have an average lifespan of 4
months.”

I wonder what happens to the scooter after that. Landfill? Recycle?

------
powera
Translation: we are entering a scooter bubble.

~~~
whymsicalburito
How do we short it??

~~~
quickthrower2
Start a scrap metal business

------
tomrod
Cool!

Are there any servicing companies popping up to re-sale end of
life/refurbished scooters?

------
Aeolun
I had to do a double take here. It seemed this was a joke article to me.

------
JohnJamesRambo
When will it peak and go down again so I don’t have to keep looking at this
garbage strewn haphazardly all about the city?

------
deft
Uber for scooters. How many times was that autogenerated by one of the million
(ironic) startup creator sites? These companies are not worth billions. They
have an app, thousands of scooters and a near-slavery workforce. The charade
of companies like this being displayed as marvels of capitalism and technology
isn't going to last much longer. Uber is wearing out its welcome worldwide
already.

