
Apple Pulls 500px’s Mobile Apps From The App Store - 3pt14159
http://techcrunch.com/2013/01/22/apple-pulls-500pxs-mobile-apps-from-the-app-store-claiming-its-too-easy-to-search-for-nude-photos/
======
neya
This is good in my opinion. The more the rejection, the more the developers
will tend to flee away from arrogant Marketplaces like that of Apple's. It
will also, in a way, probably force developers to try out other marketplaces
like the Windows Phone Marketplace and the Google Play store.

Now, I do understand 500px is trying to create a uni-platform experience for
its users, but now that 500px isn't allowed to publish their app, I'm sure
it's only a positive sign for other market places. More and more developers
will start (slowly, but surely) to neglect Apple's Appstore by default due to
the fear of the ridiculous approval process and the uncertainty that their
development efforts for the iOS platform may go a waste, because they have
seen the history of popular apps like 500px and others.

There is a very thin line of difference between being an elitist and being a
d*ck. Apple is making it clear to everyone that they are the latter.

~~~
megablast
> This is good in my opinion. The more the rejection, the more the developers
> will tend to flee away from arrogant Marketplaces like that of Apple's. It
> will also, in a way, probably force developers to try out other marketplaces
> like the Windows Phone Marketplace and the Google Play store.

People have been saying this for years, and it convinced me to make my Apps
available on the android app store. The result, is a lot of messing around,
and produced not much extra income.

Until Android starts to make the same sorts of money, which may never happen,
this will not change.

~~~
blindhippo
Everything I've read to date suggests the Android user base is very different
to the iOS user base. From a developer perspective, despite the enormous
market share Android offers, it's users are reluctant to spend any money on
software.

The iOS user base on the other hand seems to attract users willing to spend
money.

I seriously doubt Android will be a viable platform for developers until this
culture changes.

~~~
Steko
Just because the returns are lower doesn't mean it's not viable. There are
plenty of Android success stories. Even Angry Birds makes more money on
Android than on iOS last I heard.

One of the big challenges on Android is Google doesn't have many credit cards
for Apps so right there non-free apps are in trouble. Android may have double
the iOS market share but if they only have half as many credit cards their
effective market share for paid apps is 1/4 their true market share. That's
before you even look at customer demographics, etc.

------
gte910h
The app was rated 4+, yet would show pictures of naked people

[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:itunes....](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:itunes.apple.com/us/app/500px/id471965292?mt=8)

I think trying to paint Apple as bad in this case is pretty crappy, as it's
very clear what the different ratings mean and 500px didn't follow the VERY
CLEAR list of what each thing means.

[http://www.internetsafetyproject.org/wiki/apple%E2%80%99s-ap...](http://www.internetsafetyproject.org/wiki/apple%E2%80%99s-app-
rating-system)

True nudity only belongs in 17+ in their system. 500px put it available for
4+.

~~~
tsycho
By that logic, Safari should be 17+ only and should not be installed by
default unless the user claims/proves that they are 17+. It's much easier to
access nudity/porn via Safari. 500px's app required much more work, and
contained "artistic nudity" not porn.

~~~
cstejerean
Safari can be disabled under parental controls for precisely this reason.

------
burningion
I recently launched an App for the iPhone for the first time ever. And the
approval process can be ridiculous.

In my case, my meditation app allowed the user to optionally measure their
heart rate while meditating with a heart rate monitor.

When I submitted for the App Store, I had to wait a week to find out I'd been
rejected because they didn't have a heart rate monitor to test my app. It
works without it.

And never mind there are literally hundreds of apps which also incorporate the
Bluetooth LE heart rate monitors. Apple wanted me to send them one, so I ended
up overnighting them one, only to have them take another week to let me know
they'd taken a look at my app, then approved it.

I agree, this marketplace approval thing sucks.

~~~
bollockitis
Maybe it's just me, but I'm actually glad they wanted to verify that your app
worked as advertised before approving it. They should probably have
peripherals on hand for testing though.

~~~
FireBeyond
I wouldn't be - such apps are not regulated medical devices. Why should Apple
be giving such things the okay? It adds an air of at least implied reliability
for such tools, and that's probably not a good place for anyone to be in.

(Not to mention, at least for me, such tools have proven horribly inaccurate.)

~~~
burningion
I want to address your last comment, about heart rate monitors being horribly
inaccurate for you.

According to a large body of research
([http://www.polar.com/en/about_polar/who_we_are/research_inde...](http://www.polar.com/en/about_polar/who_we_are/research_index?cat=1)),
the Polar brand heart rate monitors provide basically medical quality data.

Have you really tried one of the new Bluetooth LE monitors, and what sort of
problems did you have?

It's vitally important to me, because my startup revolves around the rock-
solid, years of research that have gone into developing these devices.

Thanks for letting me know.

~~~
FireBeyond
Certainly, and it may actually be a red herring. I have a Polar and I believe
it to be fairly accurate. My initial impression of a HRM-style app was the
more gimmicky pseudo-pulseox LED flashlight and camera style. Apologies for
the misleading!

------
kryptiskt
"...have been pulled from the Apple App Store due to concerns about nude
photos."

The horror. It's a blessing the web came along before app stores became
trendy. Now at least there's a huge vibrant world outside the walled gardens.

~~~
jpdoctor
> _"...have been pulled from the Apple App Store due to concerns about nude
> photos."_

Thank god the first-person shooter games are allowed to continue unhindered.
We certainly don't want to jeopardize the future of our children by
inculcating wrong behaviors.

~~~
bollockitis
The sad part is that most parents won't bat an eye while Junior guns down his
opponents, but they would be up in arms at the sight of a nipple.

~~~
PanMan
That strongly depends on the country. In the USA, probably. Here in europe
there is no problem showing naked breasts in the evening news, when relevant.
However, the US finds mild nudity the most offensive thing ever. Back on
topic: unfortunately Apple applies its US based rules on all content
worldwide: I know an app by a huge broadcaster that got rejected based on
nudity in an item on, I think, breast cancer. Which is no problem here at al,
to show on national TV.

------
samtp
I've never bought into whats so bad about a naked body. We all have one.

From what I understand people get scared/agitated about nuditity because it
makes humans seem more a part of nature, savage, and wild. People want to
think of humanity as on a pedestal above "beasts". Still, this is a very
strange aspect of our society

~~~
terhechte
I'm from Germany, and whenever I have US friends over, they're aghast when
they see our newspapers or magazines or TV ads, where nude bodies are nothing
special and nobody cares if a kids sees boobs.

On the other hand, violent media, like gore, or blood depiction, is explicitly
forbidden. In games that were to be sold for minors, the publishers usually
color the blood blue before releasing it on the German market.

I tend to think that we're more open with the creation of life (nude, sexual
intercourse) versus of the destruction of life (killing, gore, blood). While
it is exactly the opposite in the US. I've never understood that, especially
given that the us is so religious - isn't religion all about cherishing and
praising life instead of death?

~~~
rimantas
I'd say religion is the main cause of such attitude in US.

~~~
keeperofdakeys
While that could be a historical cause, these days it's actively part of the
American culture. Interestingly there is almost a kind of hypocritical
attitude. A lot of American culture involves sexualisation, especially
involving celebrities; which often extends to kids in varies ways (fashion,
magazines, music). Then parents also try to keep sex and nudity from their
children, because they deem it will 'damage' them.

------
bobsy
I wonder what a young Steve Jobs would have thought of his App store. The guy
who went to India looking for spiritual enlightenment.

Forcing a certain level of quality is fine. Protecting users from scamware is
also fine. Apple goes far beyond this. They nanny the user and force upon them
what Apple perceive is right and wrong.

I got my first iMac 5 years ago and I thought Apple were awesome and
innovative. Now I just find them overbearing. Like success has lead to the
corporate types making decisions instead of those that originally drove
development and change.

I have an iPad for testing. I avoided getting a new Apple computer in favour
of a Linux computer. First time I turned on my latest computer i felt somewhat
liberated being away from an Apple logo. Looking back I had the same feeling
firing up my Mac for the first time. I felt free of a virus filled Windows and
I remember thinking that the future had finally arrived.

Its interesting how feelings and perceptions change.

~~~
patgarner
The impression I got at some point was that the reason for the absence of
nudity or porn in apps sold on the iOS app store was not to nanny what users
do with the device, but rather that Apple/Steve Jobs did not want to be the
purveyors of nudity or porn in the same sense that if I owned a news stand I
wouldn't want to sell magazines that promoted racism. I can see where the
strictness of the current app store in that regard might be in line with the
uplifting side of spirituality. Having said that, I'll add that I think there
are things about the app store that don't fit with that quest for spiritual
enlightenment.

------
joebadmo
A few years ago, I was in a big box store and overheard a young (~10y/o) child
and his mother picking out a new video game. The kid excitedly picked up a box
and asked his mom if he could get that one. She checked out the cover, then
started reading the rating.

"Rated 'mature' for sexual content? No way!"

"Aw, man! Ok, how about this one?"

"Rated 'mature' for extreme graphic violence? Well... ok."

~~~
sp332
That's because violence is not relateable. When people see violence, they
don't think, "Hey, I want to do that!" But when they see sex, they do.

~~~
just2n
When I see images of awesome looking food, I think "Hey, I want to try that!"

Same with pictures of people sky-diving, drinking, racing in fast cars, etc.

All of these things can be pretty dangerous, in fact far more dangerous than
having sex. Better start the bans!

~~~
sp332
In the USA, they put disclaimers on skydiving and racing cars. Stuff like
"don't try this" or "at your own risk" or "these are professionals, this is
dangerous" etc. Also tobacco and alcohol companies are prohibited from
advertising to minors.

------
nicholassmith
This isn't an awful decision just because Apple pulled it, it's an awful
decision because Apple was finally starting to get a better PR stance from not
hell banning apps for trivial bullshit on a large, public scale.

It is an awful decision though, rules being applied inconsistently across the
board again.

------
endgame
Oh look, one of these stories again. Why do people keep building on this pile
of shifting sand?

~~~
orionblastar
People build on this pile of sand because "Apple can do no wrong" and
"Everyone uses iOS products because they are soooooooo popular and hip" plus
"Everyone else ripped off Apple, might as well develop for the original" and
other logical fallacies Apple markets to developers.

~~~
lambda
Or, really, people build on this pile of sand because it's more valuable than
not doing so. There is enough money to be had in the iOS ecosystem that even
when you take into account the risk of being dinged for something stupid like
this, it's still an expected net gain for many people to release an iOS app.

------
luney
Well I was going to write: Time to pull safari

But then I checked tech crunch's comments and it seems that I would be very
unoriginal. Same goes for any of the other apps mentioned...

So to trump them all:

Time to disable the internet!

~~~
sp332
Apple's response has always been: if you want content on iOS that we don't
allow, make a web app. The App store is not a public place; Apple only puts
things there that they like.

~~~
rogerchucker
Which in the larger scheme of things is a moronic position because the same
device they are trying to keep pristine and pure through their app store can
be used to see dirty things through the Web. We know what Apple has always
been responded to these arguments with - what we are pointing out is that is
that it is extremely douche-y to take such a position.

~~~
sp332
It's not about keeping the _device_ "pure". It about not putting things in the
_App Store_ they don't like. <https://xkcd.com/1150/>

~~~
rogerchucker
And what strategic purpose does it serve Apple by "not putting things it
doesn't like" in the App Store?

~~~
sp332
Apple doesn't want an app in the app store. Apple bans the app from the app
store. Flawless victory! It's par for the course with Apple: unusual strategy,
perfect tactics.

~~~
rogerchucker
With all due respect, that's some priceless apologist BS. You still didn't
outline the fucking strategic goal being served here with this "perfect
tactic". If the course is to stay a major dick in the software world, then yes
it is par for the course. But that doesn't make much business sense - does it?

~~~
sp332
Sorry, I don't know what you mean by "strategic goal". Maybe it's something
mushy, like they want to make users feel more confident about what they're
getting when they go to the App Store. Or maybe it's just about making metric
boatloads of money!

Apple's MacOS runs on a very limited set of hardware. iOS runs on even less
hardware. There are very few customization options for the hardware - the
iPhone only comes in black or white, for example. And they decide what apps to
sell on iPhones. Apple constantly makes decisions that their customers have to
live with, sacrificing individuality or personal determination to suit some
self-styled tastemakers at Apple.

The result? They have more money than Microsoft and Google combined! I don't
buy Apple stuff, I just don't care for it. But to answer your question: yes,
it obviously makes "business sense".

------
roc
A quick look shows any number 500px browsing apps still on the store. But
they're all rated 12+ or 17+.

Which makes me wonder if 500px didn't mark their app accordingly? Or perhaps
they used to, but then switched it to a lower rating thinking their 'safe
search' toggle was sufficient?

~~~
3pt14159
We were called by Apple to let us know; they specifically told us to
completely block even artistic nudes. Although I'm not sure of their stance on
photos of Michaelangelo's _David_ (see: <http://500px.com/photo/765271>). I'll
have to get someone on the phone over there.

(NSFA warning: Nipples)

~~~
roc
Just to be clear, I was wondering about some other circumstance -- perhaps
naively -- because I thought Apple had seen the error in this sort of
nonsense, so I wondered if there was some other explanation or consideration.

If Apple is indeed getting back into the game of selective, uneven enforcement
of their guidelines, it's a monumental fuck-up.

~~~
jasonlotito
> If Apple is indeed getting back into the game of selective, uneven
> enforcement of their guidelines...

This never stopped. Selective enforcement is a policy that they enforce, and
have freely admitted to.

------
Spittie
This isn't the first time Apple do it. They've already removed Chan Elite [1]
and every other 4chan's browser based on the same concern (and those were
tagged as 17+ applications).

I wonder how Apple chose which apps are out, and which apps stay in.

Opera mini and Chrome are browsers, it's extremely easy to find porn with
those. Yet they still are in the store.

Reddit has several subreddits for porn, and yet there are several application
in the store that allow you to browse it.

This is just getting ridiculous.

[1] [http://legendarysoftwarelabs.com/2012/06/13/chan-elite-is-
go...](http://legendarysoftwarelabs.com/2012/06/13/chan-elite-is-gone/)

~~~
kybernetyk
> I wonder how Apple chose which apps are out, and which apps stay in.

If the process is in any way similar to the review process then it's just
about luck. If you're lucky you get a reviewer who isn't too strict about the
rules and lets your app through. If you're not so lucky you get one who will
apply the rules like a robot.

------
SCdF
This is fairly absurd, any app that allows user generated content (including,
dun dun dun, Safari) allows young precious eyes previously untouched by the
horrors of boobies to be exposed so dangerously.

Still, this is a bit like writing a twitter app and then being sad when they
flip their API on you.

Apple runs the game, they get to set the rules. If that bothers you, don't
make iOS apps. I imagine if enough people did that, they may get the message.

~~~
pyre
Didn't you know? This just the walled garden protecting you from viruses!
Without the walled garden you might have picked up an STD from that nude
photo! </sarcasm>

[ Someone should post a bunch of sensationalist pieces about how Safari allows
you to view nude photos, all of them insinuating / claiming that Apple
supports the porn industry. If Apple wants to take some ultra-conservative
view, let's hold their feet to the fire on it. If no app is allowed to
possibly show a nude body, let's apply that to _all Apps._ ]

------
myko
This is just silly. How does Apple justify pulling this vs Flipboard/Currents?

~~~
elemeno
I would assume that someone made a complaint to Apple, which then forces Apple
to take action and investigate - at that point there's likely a procedure that
they need to follow mandated by Apple's Legal department for how it gets
handled.

~~~
FireBeyond
Apple is "forced" to do no such thing, any more than a parent can't sue
Comcast because her son found a nude picture on the Internet.

------
akashshah
Why don't they pull the Chrome app because I can turn the default safe search
off and search for porn?

~~~
twoodfin
Chrome is already listed as 17+, presumably for this very reason.

What was the 500px app's rating?

~~~
tchebotarev
12+

------
stephengillie
What about non-nude porn? Images that people find gratifying, but don't
involve naked women?

------
Camillo
This is pretty good for 500px. I had never even heard of them before, and now
they're going to be all over the Internet. I just downloaded the ISO500 app,
which apparently they acquired, and which is still available on the App Store.

------
edwinjm
And so the purist American norm is forced upon the rest of the world.

Yes I know I can buy a different phone, but that's not the point. It's about a
company deciding for me what my morals should be.

------
ishansharma
Now this is getting too much. Apple should be putting some sensible reviewers
there. I wander what kind of people take such steps.

Additionally, "we also received customer complaints about possible child
pornography", what kind of bozos report such things.

Dear Apple, Chrome and Safari let me access porn too easily, I just need to
follow following steps: 1\. Open Safari 2\. Tap address bar. Then tap
s,e,x,.,c,o,m keys and press return. 3\. PORN!

OMG, now will you block Safari as well!

------
fotoblur
Here are the facts:

The app had a +4 rating which apple defines as "Apps in this category contain
no objectionable material." Did 500px honor this rating? No.

Also, they shouldn't have been surprised. The review right on their iTunes
page lists a complaint about nudity. I think if the app was properly rated
Apple should put the app back up.

<http://i.imgur.com/GESYvRs.jpg>

------
diziet
Funnily enough, Apple had their own snafu with app store searches for lewd
words showing up kid's apps like Disney's apps:
[http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/11/15/dirty-
wor...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/11/15/dirty-word-
searches-in-itunes-store-suggested-apps-for-disney-fox-washington-post-and-
kids-games/)

------
markross
So anyone can use the web browser on their iOS device to view nude photos on
the 500px website, but they can't download the app and view them via that?
It's a bit ridiculous really. Are they going to start blocking websites they
dont approve of as well?

~~~
jmreid
The point is, if I have set my son's iOS device to block Safari as well as
apps rated as mature, then he won't be able to do either.

If 500px's app was rated 12+ because it's default was 'Safe On" (according to
one of 500px's owners: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5099607>), and my
son can just toggle a "Safe On" switch in the app, it side-steps my parental
controls.

------
niggler
Does apple restrict html5 mobile sites in safari? Seems like the best bet is
to build as much in the website and use the app if certain native
functionality is needed ...

------
jiggy2011
I've never used this app. But assuming I'm an adult and want to use an Apple
device to show my penis to other adults with Apple devices, why should Apple
care?

------
uptown
Unrelated - but did TC switch off Facebook as their commenting system? This is
their first post where I see Livefyre comments instead of Facebook.

------
magoon
I'm sure they can just resubmit with an M-17 rating.

------
D3nver
I hope the App Store reviewers look over the Safari app. You can do the same
thing, but there's no default safe search!! Scandalous!

~~~
jmreid
It's funny how this comment comes up in this discussion.

It's not about Safari also being able to surf porn sites, it's about Apple
wanting to protect the integrity of their parental controls.

If I've disabled mature apps as well as Safari on a child's iOS device, should
I now worry that they can see mature content using 500px? Those parental
controls are there for a reason and rely on accurate ratings for apps.

Yes, sucks that everything with web access gets a mature rating, but you must
see how that's the point, right?

------
pedalpete
I bet they'll look back at this in a few months and think the publicity they
are getting was the best thing for their business.

------
callmeed
Wait, so no artistic nudes but minors can send each other pictures of their
genitalia via SnapChat?

------
ryojeo
Thanks for sharing these great tips. I always find it difficult to come up

------
Susan1
Tumblr is rated 4+ and is full of animated GIFs of hardcore pornography.

------
jeffk1337
Uh oh, watch out Tumblr.

------
savethejets
As of 4:27 PM MST I can still find this app in the app store.

------
elliottkember
This is exactly why I use my phone in airplane mode.

~~~
luney
this made me laugh pretty good. thanks!

------
pyroMax
Apple needs to grow up and stop acting like a 12 year old.

------
analog
This is beyond ridiculous. And I know that what Apple is doing doesn't breach
any laws, but imo it should be illegal in the same way that MS bundling IE
breached anti-trust laws.

Personally I'm going to try Android when it comes time to replace my iPhone.

~~~
sp332
You can't get angry at someone else for not letting you sell stuff in their
store. <https://xkcd.com/1150/>

~~~
Dylan16807
The problem is not the store rules. The problem is that the store is made
mandatory.

------
salmanapk
What's with this Arab/Muslim mentality? What harm can non-pornographic nude
photos do to kids?

~~~
rcfox
What's with the racist mentality?

~~~
salmanapk
Well you have no idea how much shit and limits I have to go through because of
these sickos.

------
politician
Apple announces mobile photo sharing app in 3, 2, 1...

------
chris_wot
So Apple wants to compete in this space, and 500px is an active threat. The
wonders of a closed ecosystem.

~~~
jfb
Assumes facts not in evidence.

