
Libreboot left the GNU project - chippy
https://libreboot.org/gnu/
======
lettergram
I mean, I'm just going to come out and say it - unless there are emails or
something it's got to be hard for the FSF or the employee to make any sort of
claims.

If there is not a lawsuit this probably shouldn't even be a thing.

The libreboot founder wrote:

> Libreboot is not part of GNU or FSF anymore. I hereby denounce both GNU and
> FSF. Long live the LGBT community, and long live the free software movement.
> Meanwhile, FSF and GNU can both go fuck themselves.

To be honest, because I see no evidence - just a bunch of pointing fingers,
this seems super unprofessional and possibly just downright defamation on the
part of libreboot. Now if evidence is provided I'd be happy to change my mind,
but overall this seems pretty childish.

Some of the Reddit comments:

> Having had interactions with this particular developer before, they are a
> very ...impulsive individual and given to extreme snap judgements and
> opinions (banning discussion of using any *BSD with Libreboot on the IRC
> channel for the project because BSD isn't "free enough" comes to mind).

> This reaction doesn't really surprise me, regardless of however accurate it
> may or may not be (and I lean more towards giving the FSF the benefit of the
> doubt here)

Then there's another who supposedly knows the people involved:

> Leah has psychological problems. Don't let that be reflective of the
> majority in the Free Software Community. It is certainly a risk to the
> LibreBoot project. The problem is she is the primary person behind
> LibreBoot. It's a good project otherwise.

> I know Leah and I know the people accused. Leah's statements are without
> merit and twisted into things because she is mad. She has a clear history of
> making false and/or misleading statements against people and organizations
> she perceives to have wronged her."

Again, because there is no evidence this seems to just be a way to punish FSF
because someone got mad.

~~~
Symbiote
> on the part of libreboot

One of the main contributors to Libreboot points out that only Leah has commit
access to the website, and

"(the contributors) are not consulted about any of the views expressed on the
libreboot.org website when they are hastily published by Leah."

[http://zammit.org/libreboot-screwup.html](http://zammit.org/libreboot-
screwup.html)

------
ekianjo
I think RMS' intervention is appropriate as reference:

> The dismissal of the staff person was not because of her gender. Her gender
> now is the same as it was when we hired her. It was not an issue then, and
> it is not an issue now.

~~~
a_bonobo
But the libreboot post says the same, the staff person was let go because of
standing up against bullying, the gender doesn't matter directly to the firing

~~~
ekianjo
The libreboot post clearly mentions that the bullying was about the fact the
person was trans, therefore going against what the FSF and RMS claim.

------
sanxiyn
The statement initially contained words "the person who was fired ... has
given permission for this opposition to be made against the FSF". Later, Leah
Rowe silently removed these words with commit message "typofix".

[https://notabug.org/vimuser/libreboot-
website/commit/18c0a56...](https://notabug.org/vimuser/libreboot-
website/commit/18c0a561c44a447d558f66df5a680e162f44a58d)

------
avar
How is Leah Rowe (the Libreboot maintainer) in a position to know better than
the FSF why the FSF fired someone?

Is she directly involved? Does/did she also work for the FSF with the people
in question, or does she just have some relationship with the person who got
fired and is getting their side of the story?

She's now publicly calling for the firing of several people of the FSF & the
destruction of their livelihoods and careers.

I have _no_ involvement in any of this, but as someone on the sidelines who's
been reading about it here on HN this just seems like he said she said hearsay
resulting in the tech equivalent of tabloid dramas & trials in the court of
public opinion.

------
madmax96
There are other legitimate ways to protest.

Breaking down the unity of the GNU system is unwise and a childish fit, at
best. Promoting unity among GNU should be the first priority of every project
in the system. It is not immediately clear that Libreboot leadership did
anything to address their concerns, they simply walked away.

Energy going to causes like this detract from the real mission of GNU: a free
operating system. That should be its only concern. There's going to be a lot
of flamage on this comment, but the community needs to prioritize technical
progress over other things. Other organizations exist to deal with those
issues, and so we shouldn't confuse GNU's real purpose.

~~~
danarmak
> Other organizations exist to deal with those issues

For the alleged issue of someone being fired due to being transgender, I fail
to see how other organizations can deal with her being fired from the FSF. Do
you suggest transgender people should only work for organizations promoting
transgender rights, who can "deal with their issues"?

Also, please consider that if all organizations and communities behaved as you
suggest, then just as the FSF might not organizationally care about
transgender rights, every other organization in the world might not care about
free software. As a free software supporter, do you really want that?

* Obligatory disclaimer: this comment is not intended to imply any factual assessment of the various claims about the firing.

~~~
legulere
The alleged issue even is not being fired because of being transgender, but
being fired because of complaining too much about being harassed.

------
fdsaaf
I find it very difficult to believe that anyone experienced and conscientious
enough to work for the FSF "harassed by a transphobic colleague for being
trans". Even if someone is anti-trans, it should be clear that in the current
political climate, openly expressing these views is a career death sentence.

Is it possible that things went down as the post suggests? Sure. I find it
much more likely that the individual involved _interpreted_ neutral comment of
some sort as an attack on her gender, then stirred up trouble. Why do I have
such a dismal view? Because it keeps happening, over and over. The perpetually
offended have ruined too many good careers, and we need to stand up to them.

~~~
jancsika
> Even if someone is anti-trans, it should be clear that in the current
> political climate, openly expressing these views is a career death sentence.

I don't want to be the one responsible for someone's career death sentence,
but it _is_ posted on a public mailing list:
[https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg0005...](https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg00055.html)

1) Trans person is qualified for job 2) Hiring a trans person is now risky
because of a perception of a potential "shitstorm" should "something" happen
3) Admission that this perceived risk exists regardless of the trans person's
experience, aptitude, or temperament.

Is this not a textbook example of discrimination?

Edit: used "risk exists" instead of awkward phrasing "risk is true"

------
chippy
I thought it important as this is a direct bit of official information from
the libreboot.org website itself, and libreboot is often mentioned in many
other threads on HN with regards to privacy, laptops, and Free alternatives. I
imagine it would be of interest to many here. Please forgive me if the
submission is flagged, I can understand the distaste for drama. Let's keep the
discussion civil.

~~~
aban
It's also worth mentioning that one of the main contributors of Libreboot
responded[0] on that mailing list thread, and on his website[1] that "[..]
Leah Rowe is the only person who has git commit access to the website,
libreboot.org, and also the only person who has git commit access to the
codebase, [..]".

[0]:
[https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg0006...](https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg00067.html)

[1]: [http://zammit.org/libreboot-screwup.html](http://zammit.org/libreboot-
screwup.html)

------
ratsmack
Leah Rowe's response[1] on the mailing list was unprofessional and a bit
troubling coming from a project leader.

[1]:[https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg0003...](https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg00036.html)

------
hiou
Word to the wise... anything that you comment here could be used to end your
career today or 5 years later when someone discovers this thread. Please
choose your words carefully.

~~~
fdsaaf
Wise words. Like anything having to do with identity, this issue is
radioactive. It's become very difficult to criticize members of certain
groups, because a vocal minority of people will invariably attribute your
criticism to your crypto-hatred of the group to which the subject of your
criticism belongs, then attempt to ruin your career over the perceived "hate".

------
Yetanfou
One person does not an organisation make. One claimed instance of
'discrimination' \- I use quotes on this word as it is often used in
circumstances where other terms would be a better fit - does not a policy
make. One person who feels violated in some way does not an indictment against
a whole organisation justify.

If someone at FSF knowingly and willingly acted in a discriminatory way
against someone and said discriminatory behaviour was sufficiently serious
that the person being discriminated against can be assumed to feel violated in
a real sense, action should be taken against that person at FSF. If FSF as an
organisation has a policy promoting such discrimination this policy should be
held to the light and discussed in the open so the reasons for that policy and
the instigators thereof can be revealed. If the policy turns out violate basic
human rights it should be changed or repealed. If FSF refuses to do so...
_then_ is the time for actions like this one. Assuming that the claims made in
this thread are serious and provable the end result might be the same, or it
might not. Maybe FSF would change its ways instead and remove any such
policies and/or people from its organisation?

Sending accusatory messages to a mailing list and 'taking your marbles to go
home' is not the best way to induce change in society, no matter how aggrieved
you feel.

------
benbenolson
As someone hearing about this only now, what actually happened? I find it
extremely difficult to believe that the FSF fired anyone based on any one
trait. This post says that the trans person "stood up for themselves", and
because of the ambiguity, this makes me think that it might not have been as
simple as all that.

------
generic_user
from the original emal list.

> The Free Software Foundation recently fired a transgendered employee of the
> FSF, just for being trans.

> I do not believe that the FSF or the GNU project deserve to exist.

> Libreboot is not part of GNU or FSF anymore. I hereby denounce both GNU and
> FSF.

> FSF and GNU can both go fuck themselves.

This sort of unsubstantiated accusation in public about GNU/FSF internal
personnel decisions looks rather unhinged. It's a crude attempt to give the
GNU/FSF and its members/employees a public black eye and solicit an internet
outrage mob. Even if this person feels they have some legitimate concern these
tactics are deplorable and should be denounced.

------
asimov42
With such little information out there at the present I don't believe there is
any point to discussion right now. With just unverified speculation, people
are resorting to their imagination for any explanation which is never a good
idea.

------
SRSposter
I really hope that this is not the spark that will shatter the free software
movement into bickering about politics.

~~~
cyphar
Well, given the rise of contributor covanents and several people throwing
around identity politics on technical mailing lists, it definitely looks like
it's happening already. But I highly doubt that the free software movement
will shatter. There have been bigger threats to software freedom, and the
community has overcome them too.

------
josteink
And so libreboot was forked.

------
legulere
That's what you get from a movement that more resembles a religious cult.
Everything has to bow to their arbitrarily defined software freedoms first and
foremost. IMO an even better reason to leave the GNU project and the FSF is
that Richard Stallman is a pedophilia apologist. (See the quotes at
[https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Pedophilia](https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Pedophilia)
of him)

~~~
thescribe
Why do you care who makes your software as long as it is good free software?
If I started judging people as opposed to appreciating what they do It would
be very dehumanizing.

~~~
legulere
When you are a public person, publishing opinions on your website is something
you do, and should be judged. Still supporting RMS and seeing him as a
visionary how he often is, gives legitimacy to such dispicable ideas.

