
Launching a weather balloon, a camera and a Raspberry Pi to the stratosphere - pinjiz
https://blog.pinterjann.is/?p=504
======
trhway
why people don't attach rockets to such balloons? It is a very old idea, yet
nobody so far seems to be doing it. Launch from 30km height without
atmospheric drag to speak of would make reaching real space much easier. Is
there some obstacle for doing it?

~~~
tzs
In the US, it is not legal to drop objects from amateur high altitude
balloons. That includes launching projectiles from them.

Laws relating to high altitude balloons vary from country to country, so I
don't know the reason for people not doing it outside the US.

Speaking of laws, at the minimum some things you should probably check before
sending up a balloon is your country's laws on:

• What notification you have to give, if any, and/or markers you have to place
on the balloon so that it won't interfere with air traffic as it passes
through the altitudes airplanes and helicopters use.

• What methods of communication with the balloon are allowed. Many in the US
us GSM cellular devices hooked to GPS units, but from what I've read that it
is not legal to use cellular devices from high altitude balloons.

The best approach in the US is to get a Technician class amateur radio license
(and if you are the kind of person who can put together a decent payload for a
high altitude balloon, you can learn enough to easily pass the radio license
test in a couple evenings). You can then use amateur radio frequencies and
equipment for your telemetry, and you are even allowed to build your own
radios. A transmitter can be pretty simple and cheap to build if you are
willing to transmit your data in Morse code (like, a transistor, a crystal,
and a handful of resistors and capacitors and such). If you are sticking an
Arduino or Pi or some such in there, that can easily convert the data to Morse
and send it, and automatically decoding it on the ground with a computer is
not hard.

Everything else I've seen seems to be either illegal, or involves using
unlicensed bands where you are legally limited to very low power which could
be annoying (especially if your balloon lands far away from where you
expected, and you are trying to track it down with radio direction finding).
When you make licensed use of the ham bands, you can use a good amount of
power (but only up to what is necessary to accomplish the mission).

In the UK, from what I've read, the ham option doesn't work. Hams are not
allowed to transmit from aircraft, and that includes balloons. Not sure what
the best legal method of operating there is.

• What constraints there are on the balloon. In the US there are regulations
on, among other things, total weight of the complete system, total weight of
the payload, and on the size/weight ratios of the components of the payload,
and on the strength of the ropes attaching the payload to the balloon.

~~~
NeutronBoy
> What methods of communication with the balloon are allowed. Many in the US
> us GSM cellular devices hooked to GPS units, but from what I've read that it
> is not legal to use cellular devices from high altitude balloons.

Also worth noting, consumer GPS chips won't work above a certain altitude (or
speed for that matter), due to weapons export restrictions to prevent them
from being used in missiles, etc

~~~
tzs
Some consumer chips will work. The regulations say they must not work at
speeds above 515 m/s and altitudes above 18 km.

Some manufacturers follow the rules as written, and disable if the unit is
above the speed limit AND the height limit. Some disable if the unit is above
the speed limit OR the height limit.

The former are fine for balloons.

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mactunes
I did a very similar thing with my group of young volunteer firefighters (also
in Germany). We launched a total mass of 500 grams in order to avoid having to
get a special permit for this (note: this will change in Germany quite soon!)

We also used a Raspberry Pi Model A+, but recorded 720p video. We powered it
using a 9V block battery and regulated the voltage to 5V. Worked like a charm!

Here's some videos and pics:
[http://www.florianerzons.de/yffzhab/](http://www.florianerzons.de/yffzhab/)

Edit:

Completely forgot. I also wrote some blog posts for anyone asking themselves
how this can be done:

[http://mactunes.de/posts/2015/2/25/yffzhab---taking-
videos-a...](http://mactunes.de/posts/2015/2/25/yffzhab---taking-videos-
at-20km/index.html) [http://mactunes.de/posts/2015/3/2/yffzhab---powering-
electro...](http://mactunes.de/posts/2015/3/2/yffzhab---powering-electronics-
in-the-cold/index.html) [http://mactunes.de/posts/2015/4/6/yffzhab---bill-of-
material...](http://mactunes.de/posts/2015/4/6/yffzhab---bill-of-
materials/index.html)

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fillskills
What kind of restrictions are there on airspace use for such project? Airspace
might be the wrong word. Is there a chance an aircraft might hit the ballon
etc?

~~~
deutronium
In the UK you get permission to launch a balloon, and a NOTAM (Notice to
Airmen) is published in advance

[https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:faq](https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:faq)

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kaybe
European students can apply for the REXUS/BEXUS programme by ESA and a couple
of national space agencies. You get to design your own experiment and put it
on either a balloon or a rocket.

It's a lot of work, but you get to experience the whole lifecycle of a space
project -yay documentation/testing- and are supported by their engineers, and
you travel quite a bit. (I was in a BEXUS 16 team - the balloon track - and
can highly recommend the programme!)

[http://www.rexusbexus.net/](http://www.rexusbexus.net/)

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eik3_de
Launch site is only 40 km from where I live, fun to find that on HN!

If someone wonders what those lines/structures on the hills are - those are
vineyards. This region (Baden) is known for very nice wines :)

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rememberlenny
Is anyone familiar with materials and cost involved?

~~~
pasiaj
I have some insight into how _not_ to do it. :)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/2ncv6i/tifu_by_accide...](https://www.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/2ncv6i/tifu_by_accidentally_violating_russian_airspace/)

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y3rsh
Was really hoping to see video of the descent!

~~~
camperman
Their memory card filled up unfortunately.

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pXMzR2A
> The local authorities helped us a lot, the forester aranged the cutting of
> two trees for us

We killed two trees for a 15 minute long youtube video.

Is this how little respect we all have for life?

~~~
trhway
may be cutting 2 trees in general isn't that big a deal in some situations,
but looking at the photo it was definitely overkill in that situation - these
trees were easily climbable and once up there it would be enough just to cut
the branches the payload stuck onto.

~~~
pinjiz
Author here, the payload hung about 20 meters ( ~60 feet) above ground, we
tried to climb up those trees but couldn't make it up to more than 5 meters.
We also lent a ladder, but realized that even a 15 meter ladder is not enough
to reach the payload. It's also very dangerous without climbing experience and
without any climbing equipment to climb up such trees.

It was the only option for us to cut those trees down, since the wood workers
of the town were just a few kilometers away from us. They directly processed
the trees to firewood, which they were intended for. :)

~~~
pXMzR2A
> They directly processed the trees to firewood, which they were intended for.
> :)

I honestly do not understand why you take video and pictures of a planet you
do not care about. To try out your RPi toy, I guess? Or for some kind of
publicity I do not quite understand?

A tree's function is not to "get processed." It is the terms you use that are
failing you. By "get processed" you mean "to be killed." And by "function" you
mean "the value humans commonly attribute to it." Politics is indeed the art
of using this kind of language-bending. You follow these by coming up with a
bunch of excuses to legitimize the unnecessary damage you caused to the flora
of that region out of sheer arrogance.

> It's also very dangerous without climbing experience and without any
> climbing equipment to climb up such trees.

You either try, or accept defeat and design a better vehicle.

(1) I don't kill your partner just because s/he has parked her/his car at the
spot where I wanted to park. (This is an exaggeration solely because we
attribute more value to ourselves, out of arrogance, than to anything that we
deem "other.")

(2) You don't burn the computer because your software has a bug. (This example
is for those readers who persist on not shedding the aforementioned
arrogance.)

~~~
Deschain
> I honestly do not understand why you take video and pictures of a planet you
> do not care about. And how exactly did you come to this conclusion? Cutting
> down 2 trees makes him a bad person? Germany is consumed up to almost a
> third of its surface by forests. In the last 10 years alone there was an
> estimated growth in forest areas of 0.4%, that is about 500km². Do you know
> what that is called? Preservation of resourses. Cutting down 2 trees doesnt
> really mean anything when there are thousands of trees planted every week.
> If you care so dearly about trees, make sure to never buy furniture again
> and sell your house while you're at it.

Trees are a renewable source of energy / building materials. So again, its not
that much of a big deal. Try to direct your efforts towards things that you
can actually change for the better.

> A tree's function is not to "get processed." No it's not. It's function is
> what we choose for it to be. Why? Because we can. But it is going to die
> sooner or later anyway. Cutting it down for it to processed into firewood is
> neither cruel nor arrogant, it is simply efficient. That aside, as I
> understood it, the forest workers were in that area cutting down trees
> anyway. So no unnecessary harm done by OP and his mates.

> Politics is indeed the art of using this kind of language-bending Now you're
> just looking for an excuse to bash him.. Also, be wary that not everyone on
> the internet is a native english speaker. Written words may be interpreted
> in different ways by different people. He only stated what the forest
> workers were using the trees for.

> You either try, or accept defeat and design a better vehicle. I'm sure
> that's what you would have done in that situation. Sadly, not everyone is
> such a good person.

>(1) I don't kill your partner just because s/he has parked her/his car at the
spot where I wanted to park. (This is an exaggeration solely because we
attribute more value to ourselves, out of arrogance, than to anything that we
deem "other.")

According to your logic, we attribute more value to ourselves than to anything
else. And thats perfectly fine. When you think about it, each person is the
center of his/her universe and everything around them stops existing if they
cease to exist. Of course we're arrogant, that is just part of the human
psyche. It's perfectly normal to give things different values. As long as your
views don't do any serious damage, that is. It determines what you really care
about and what your passions are. Let people decide for themselves what they
deem important and go live on your own self-designated moral highground.

>(2) You don't burn the computer because your software has a bug. (This
example is for those readers who persist on not shedding the aforementioned
arrogance.)

No, because when your software has a bug you go fix it. Logical thinking has a
way of making things easier. That doesn't have anything to do with arrogance.
When your probe is stuck on top of a tree that you can't reach and there are
forest workers nearby, go ask them and your problem shall be solved. See?

But honestly at this point your exaggerationg so much that I don't even know
what you're trying to get at.

And I don't even care. Guess I'll have to blame my arrogance for that.

~~~
pXMzR2A
> Trees are a renewable source of energy / building materials.

You are too. :)

> So again, its not that much of a big deal.

...

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copperx
It reminds me of Balloon 1.0, which I can't find anymore on the web.

