
IISc Bangalore scientists are doing seed bombing with drones to plant a forest - ston3r
https://factordaily.com/iisc-bangalore-drones-seeds-forests-karnataka/
======
caio1982
Just a small anecdote: in southern Brazil there are a bunch of protected tree
species and there used to be people collectives which dropped mud seed bombs
around city gardens (I don't know if they were the same kind of manure/soil
India is using, but I am pretty sure they were actually semi dry mud balls to
resist winters). The trick here is that protected trees cannot be cut down,
never, no matter where they grow. The fee you pay if you chop one down is
abdurdly high. Wherever the bombs germinate you will have permanent
reforestation. I wish/hope there is something similar in India :-)

~~~
stcredzero
_I wish /hope there is something similar in India :-)_

Be careful what you wish for. If you can do something sneaky with biological
tech for justice, others can do bad things with it too. When I saw the
headline with "drone" in it, I immediately imagined an evil plot where some
organization genetically engineers a plant to produce pollen with a tailored
allergenic effect on one particular ethnic group, then seeds a particular area
with it. What's more, they slowly ramp up the level of allergenic effect over
the space of a decade, so that the effect looks natural. This will probably be
within the reach of billionaires and smaller governments in a decade.

~~~
samstave
Wow... I am amazed that this is where you "immediately" thought to go...

What I thought about was drone-bombing marijuana on all private residences and
public buildings of government.

Imagine seeding the whitehouse lawn with pot!

~~~
beat
Back in my carefree days of youth, I would save the seeds from all the pot I
smoked, sprout them in wet paper towels, and plant the sprouts in poorly-
maintained landscaping around government buildings. It grows quickly, so it
was always amusing to see a couple of obvious marijuana plants springing up by
the shrubs and juniper bushes.

------
overcast
Just a little anecdote for the US. Obviously for other countries, like India,
this is more of an issue. But it looks like we've made it sustainable here for
a long time.

[https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilderness-
resources/stori...](https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilderness-
resources/stories/more-trees-than-there-were-100-years-ago-its-true)

In the United States, which contains 8 percent of the world's forests, there
are more trees than there were 100 years ago. According to the Food and
Agriculture Organization (FAO), "Forest growth nationally has exceeded harvest
since the 1940s. By 1997, forest growth exceeded harvest by 42 percent and the
volume of forest growth was 380 percent greater than it had been in 1920." The
greatest gains have been seen on the East Coast (with average volumes of wood
per acre almost doubling since the '50s) which was the area most heavily
logged by European settlers beginning in the 1600s, soon after their arrival.

~~~
taneq
It's awesome that there are so many trees, but don't discount the part about
old growth forests. Many replanted 'forests' (at least in Australia) are
monocultures of fast growing softwoods, and not remotely comparable with old
growth forest.

~~~
bluGill
It isn't necessarily awesome that the US has so many trees. Forests can get
overcrowded which is bad for the forest overall even though there are a lot of
trees. It isn't just quantity that is important it is the whole ecosystem,
those trees that are overcrowded shade out helpful plants on the lower forest
floor.

Forests in the US generally depend on regular forest fires for health. The US
has mostly been putting out those fires and the result is we have a lot more
trees than is ideal.

~~~
cowpewter
Here in Florida, those forest fires are required for some of the tree species
in the endangered Florida scrub[1] and sandhill[2] ecosystems to germinate, in
addition to clearing out space for smaller plants to thrive. Florida has a
pretty regular controlled burn system though, developed over the years of
trying to protect these habitats.

I've never lived on the west coast, but I wonder sometimes if the out-of-
control wildfires that happen out there so often would be better if there were
more controlled burns happening? Or is it just too dry out there for even
that?

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_scrub](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_scrub)
[http://myfwc.com/conservation/special-
initiatives/fwli/archi...](http://myfwc.com/conservation/special-
initiatives/fwli/archive/taking-action/scrub/)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_longleaf_pine_sandhill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_longleaf_pine_sandhill)
[http://myfwc.com/conservation/special-
initiatives/fwli/archi...](http://myfwc.com/conservation/special-
initiatives/fwli/archive/taking-action/sandhill/)

~~~
munificent
The situation in California is quite complex. John McFee's excellent "Control
of Nature" has a long essay on the interactions between forest fires, geology,
and landslides. I'll probably do a shitty job of paraphrasing, but I'll try.

As the population of California has increased, people have increasingly
settled farther and farther up the neighboring mountains. The mountain ranges
in the area like the San Gabriels are very young geologically. They haven't
had the chance to erode down much and are composed of brittle rock just
waiting for a chance to break off.

So you have a growing population in an area prone to devastating landslides
and debris flow[1].

Meanwhile, the mountains are covered in chapparal. These small scrubby bushes
have evolved to endure (and in fact in some species _require_ ) periodic
wildfires every decade or so. When the chapparal burns, it leaves a coating of
ashy dust on the ground. That prevents rain water from soaking into the earth.
So when a summer storm comes around later, the water starts sheeting down the
mountain, taking dirt, rocks, and boulders with it.

This is a devastating event. It's very hard to build defenses against it, and
hard to predict precisely when it's going to occur. You're talking going from
"everything is fine" to "thousands of tons of rock crashing through homes" in
a matter of minutes.

Ironically, debris flow would be easier to predict with controlled burns, but
it's pretty hard sell to say, "Yeah, you're house is going to get flattened
next month and we're going to make it happen." So, because of the much greater
threat to life (people die in big debris flows all the time) and property,
California ends up very hesitant to do controlled burns of the chapparal.

[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debris_flow](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debris_flow)

~~~
samstave
Wouldnt, also, in certain cases, the ash mix with the soil and make a more
hardened clay-like mix which would harden and prevent a certain amount of
erosion?

~~~
bluGill
Not in California where the mountains are growing at a fast rate (for a
geological process fast). The roots hold the mountain up while the trees grow,
but when the trees burn those roots no longer have life and the next rainstorm
lets the mountain side fall as the mountain has grown.

Read the book, it is described much better than I can summarize.

------
happy-go-lucky
According to the wiki at
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seed_ball](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seed_ball),
_the earliest records of aerial reforestation date back from 1930. In this
period, planes were used to distribute seeds over certain inaccessible
mountains in Honolulu after forest fires._

This article quotes the lead professor as saying _doing it with big aircraft
is expensive_ and poses logistic problems. _So the only way to do it is
through drones._ I respect people trying to achieve maximum output with
minimal resources.

> Dropping seeds instead of bombs seems like a plan that John Lennon would
> approve of.

That sounds like a bold statement, but I’m certainly willing to approve of it
:)

Good job.

------
vermontdevil
New England made a dramatic recovery in forest. I saw pics of old New England
(Vermont) and it was basically barren. That shocked me as if you visit now,
it's basically covered with trees.

[https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/08/31/new-england-
see...](https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/08/31/new-england-sees-return-
forests-and-wildlife/lJRxacvGcHeQDmtZt09WvN/story.html)

------
shivaas
[https://www.droneseed.co/](https://www.droneseed.co/) based out of Seattle is
building drones and seed cartridges specifically for reforestation.

~~~
msnower
Seems like a cool idea! The article mentioned the drones were flying in hard-
to-reach areas. These trees will be safe against harvesters.

------
GrumpyNl
We do the same in Holland ( illegal) with weed seeds.

~~~
afeezaziz
I thought it is legal to trade weed in Holland? How is it useful to plant weed
at this scale if authorities going to root it out?

~~~
dogruck
It breaks down like this: it's legal to buy it, it's legal to own it, and if
you're the proprietor of a hash bar, it's legal to sell it. It's legal to
carry it, but that doesn't really matter 'cause get a load of this, all right?
If you get stopped by the cops in Amsterdam, it's illegal for them to search
you. I mean, that's a right the cops in Amsterdam don't have.

~~~
Amorymeltzer
For those out of the loop, this is a line from the famous "royale with cheese"
scene in Pulp Fiction:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYSt8K8VP6k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYSt8K8VP6k)

------
kumarvvr
During long train journeys in our childhood, we had people telling us to drop
seeds along railway tracks after eating fruits and other stuff.

Guess we have gone hi-tech now.

Seems like a good way to automatically forest large swathes of un-populated
land.

------
Mz
_It’s a dry area, so our interest is to bring back the rains._

[http://permaculture-and-sanity.com/pcarticles/trees-and-
the-...](http://permaculture-and-sanity.com/pcarticles/trees-and-the-water-
cycle.php)

It isn't inevitable that more people equals more destruction. We can act as
stewards responsible for the environment.

------
chheplo
Just a small anecdote: Coming from generations of farmer family and gardener
myself, this experiment feels like a "Cloudy with a chance of seeds" for
rodents and squirrels.

~~~
spraak
The picture of the seed bags in the article is captioned > The drone-dropped
seeds wrapped in balls of manure and soil which I imagine would mitigate
against rodents etc.?

------
Pxtl
I'm kind of surprised, actually. I mean, if there's one country with access to
cheap labour, it's India.

~~~
awkward
Hiring a small army of people to march out into the woods to plant seeds seems
potentially counterproductive.

~~~
jonknee
Why? People all over the world plant trees, it's not a demeaning or
unproductive activity.

~~~
awkward
I was thinking the foot traffic would be a problem but your brother post had a
pretty good point.

------
ctack
The goat herders are going to have a field day if they sprout.

~~~
schiffern
Yep, unmanaged goat herds are a big part of the desertification problem. They
can range on heavily degraded land (which is otherwise an economic signal to
allow it to lie fallow). They'll eat even the remaining hardy plants down to
nothing, finalizing the land's transition from forest to desert.

Pretty tragic how traditional (and sustainable) herd management practices were
abolished via privatization in the name of "progress." The mechanisms they
used to prevent the Tragedy of the Commons were dismantled, with predictable
results.

[http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_analysis/2871076/overg...](http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_analysis/2871076/overgrazing_and_desertification_in_the_syrian_steppe_are_the_root_causes_of_war.html)

~~~
ctack
In South Africa, untethered goats are illegal, but it doesn't really help. You
can see how in rural communities on the Wild Coast, the few existing forest
thickets are hollowed out. There are no saplings, as soon as one emerges it is
eaten. So when the current trees die the forest is gone. The effect is that
you can walk through a beautiful coastal thicket knowing it's only there on
borrowed time.

~~~
schiffern
>In South Africa, untethered goats are illegal, but it doesn't really help.

There's no contradiction. Proper grazing management (of all animals) is
necessary, but not sufficient. There are plenty of other ways to destroy the
land.

------
HarryHirsch
This is probably the thread where you mention the beaver re-introduction
program in Idaho:

[http://time.com/4084997/-/](http://time.com/4084997/-/)

------
nanospeck
Very surprising, I just got my drone delivered from hobbyking today and was
planning to develop the exact same idea but on more dryland where the drone
can water the plants until they mature.

~~~
schiffern
> the drone can water the plants

If you're in drylands you might look at land imprinting. Making shallow
depressions pools all water and organic matter right next to the seeds, and
allows infiltration in parched soils that otherwise run off all of the
occasional rains.

[https://permaculturenews.org/2012/09/19/imprinting-soils-
cre...](https://permaculturenews.org/2012/09/19/imprinting-soils-creating-
instant-edge-for-large-scale-revegetation-of-barren-lands/)

[http://imprinting.org/](http://imprinting.org/)

------
24gttghh
> “It’s a dry area, so our interest is to bring back the rains.

That seems... _very_ optimistic.

~~~
bluGill
Maybe, maybe not. Trees release moisture into the air (their roots gather this
moisture from deep in the ground) which condenses into rain. So long as you
get enough water from outside trees will increase the recycling of that water
in the local area resulting in more rainfall than no trees.

This only works in specific situations though. I don't know if applies to the
climate in India.

~~~
hinkley
This interaction supposedly exists around Kilamanjaro. Seems reasonable to
expect the same from the Himilayas.

But Bangalore? Sounds iffy.

------
anotheryou
where do birds fail to drop seeds?

Does it need to be a denser patch of spreoutlings?

~~~
anotheryou
~sproutlings

------
problems
What's with the fake Apple-style message talking about allowing notifications?
Seems sketchy.

~~~
Maskawanian
It is a dark pattern, you hit allow twice so that you can't hit block and they
can't pester you any more. It is like the similar dark pattern for phone
ratings. "How do you like this app?" you get some stars, if you vote anything
less than 4 or 5 it doesn't redirect to the phones market for review.

------
type-2
But flying drones is illegal in India.

~~~
ston3r
Afaik, you can take permission from local and central authorities to do
experiments. It's usually private use of high grade drones that's banned.

~~~
sn41
Thanks for this info. How do they define "high-grade"?

BTW, there is a "drone festival" in Lucknow on June 19, I guess akin to the
kite festivals around Sankranti. I plan to attend.

[http://www.hindustantimes.com/education/lucknow-to-host-
firs...](http://www.hindustantimes.com/education/lucknow-to-host-first-
national-drone-competition-this-month/story-qB5gi514jGXWTn23bhHUvK.html)

~~~
nonamechicken
This article has some info:

[https://factordaily.com/buying-a-drone-in-
india/](https://factordaily.com/buying-a-drone-in-india/)

~~~
walshemj
I think the worst part of the empire for india was transplanting our civil
service :-)

------
ktta
@dang why was the post title edited?

It said 'IISc Bangalore Scientists experimenting with drone seed-bombing to
plant a forest'. I see no problem with it, other than IISc not being as well
known as say MIT. But it is still a very good institution and I think they
deserve to be known. The name of the institution should be celebrated for
their research, not just put behind a large banner of 'Indian Scientists'
which gives no recognition to the institution.

Just like MIT/Stanford scientists aren't called American scientists every time
some article about research comes out from that University. If someone doesn't
know what IISc is, we know they can just google it.

~~~
frozenport
World ranking is about 200

~~~
ktta
Overall ranking is 190 (I assume you're looking at this[1]). Ranking by
subject, it is at 51 in many subjects. That's because Indian Institutions tend
to neglect fields other than mainstream Tech/Science because that's all they
can get funding for.

Still, if their ranking is at 190, why shouldn't they be called by their name?

[1]: [https://www.topuniversities.com/universities/indian-
institut...](https://www.topuniversities.com/universities/indian-institute-
science-iisc-bangalore)

~~~
frozenport
I hate to be mean but there is a reason why the school isn't named, and it was
a rational decision by the editor.

Internationally, nobody has heard of them outside of India because unlike
Stanford and MIT they have yet produce any technologies of value. While
American universities live on patents, Indian schools are know for suppling
large US software companies with cheap labour - often below market value.
Importantly you'd be hard pressed to find somebody that can tell them apart.

Indian "scientists" has a better connotations than the specific school, whose
reputations are unknown or second rate - this immediately questions the rigour
and relevance of their work.

~~~
ktta
I acknowledged that the school isn't well known. There is also something
called Google where you can search for things you don't know about.

Sorry about talking down but you have seemed to miss the entire point of my
argument. Even though the school isn't well known, I said they can search for
the name if they don't know about it.

>Indian schools are know for suppling large US software companies with cheap
labour - often below market value

I don't know how this suddenly came into the argument. If this was some remote
university in Russia, my point would still stand. You seem to have a very
prejudiced view of Indian universities. Please educate yourself. You aren't
being mean, just ignorant. Indian schools are also known for producing world-
class engineers.

Not just software. Google, Microsoft, Adobe, Pepsico, Mastercard. Do you know
what they have in common? A CEO educated in an Indian University.

>Indian "scientists" has a better connotations than the specific school, whose
reputations are unknown or second rate

We shouldn't do that has better connotations but what's right. And
acknowledging the achievements of a university is what is right.

>this immediately questions the rigour and relevance of their work.

That's your problem. Any scientific work must stand independent of whoever
publishes it. Yes, screening process gets easier, but the questioning the
accuracy must be accompanied by proper arguments, not bias.

Do you really think a country with three times the population of the US
doesn't have any scientific achievements? Just recently there was a huge
rocket launched with a fraction of the budget of the science department of a
US university.

------
fivestar
Is there anything drones can't do? All mine seems to do is get stuck in trees.

