
The Positive Programmer - googletron
http://www.rdegges.com/the-positive-programmer/
======
russelluresti
There's a reason developers complain and fixate on things that are bad or
broken. It's because, for the most part, developers (and designers and UX
people and many others) are natural problem solvers.

If something isn't broken, okay, great, no need to focus on it. But if
something is broken, to a problem solver, this is inexcusable. Things that are
wrong need to be fixed. So when you see people complaining about things like
startup culture or sexism in tech or whatever else, it's because these people
see a problem that can be fixed, so they focus their efforts on fixing it.
Most people who comment on these types of things aren't just complaining,
they're offering solutions or their thoughts on what the "real problem" is.

Personally, I feel the whole "positive attitude" thing is a detriment. People
with "positive attitudes" tend to ignore problems because they don't want to
upset others or make waves. These problems tend to fester until people like me
(problem solvers) get so tired of it we just leave.

If all you want is to be happy, fine, be happy, do your thing, ignore the
problems. But if you want to make an impact, if you want to fix things and
make them better for yourself and others, you have to focus on the things that
are wrong and you have to complain and offer solutions and build solutions and
piss people off until things get better. Making things better is always a
fight; it's always a struggle; and you're unlikely to be very happy while
trying to improve or fix broken things. Some people think it's worth it,
others don't.

~~~
davidroberts
I don't think there is any contradiction between being a problem-solver and
having a positive outlook on life, as long as you are a competent problem
solver and getting a lot of problems solved. Successful problem solving
provides both an immediate joy from a "mission accomplished" feeling, and a
long term positive outlook that comes with the feeling that because of you,
there are less unsolved problems in the world, therefore life is better.

Don`t people become problem-solvers because they enjoy solving problems? And
if that is a case, than being presented with a host of unsolved, yet
potentially solvable problems should make a problem-solver scream with glee,
right?

~~~
russelluresti
I find that people who tackle problems are those who are never quite
satisfied. Even after solving a problem, they put it in their rear view and
switch to the next problem to solve. There's always more work to be done.

I guess it depends on the depth of your compulsion.

~~~
davidroberts
I think you are confusing a problem-solver with a perfectionist. One solves
problems because he or she enjoys it. The other because they live in a world
that will never match an ideal they hold. The second is doomed to misery no
matter what, and I think that is what the OP was saying he moved away from by
focusing on the positive.

~~~
russelluresti
Or we just have different definitions of what a problem solver is. I define a
problem solver as someone who, once taking note of something they identify as
a "problem", feels a compulsion to solve said problem. Someone who identifies
problems as inherently wrong and solvable. Your definition may be more lax
than mine.

Also, I don't think he talked about moving away from perfectionism. He talked
about moving away from "how unfair things were, how I deserved more, how other
people were causing problems for me, and how I was vastly superior to everyone
else." That isn't being a perfectionist, that's being a prat.

------
greghinch
I've been working as a developer for about 10 years, and was involved in some
tech communities for about 6 or 7 years prior to that (early high school,
doing things like LAN parties, Linux install fests, and generally socializing
amongst the "nerd" set). If there's an overwhelmingly common personality
defect I've seen amongst tech aficionados, it's a proclivity towards the
negative.

My observation is that people with highly logical thought processes can often
end up developing an outwardly negative approach to most aspects of life.
Perhaps it's due to frustrations of dealing with people not as logical as us.
Perhaps its a genetic personality defect. While I can't say for certain, I
know I'm certainly guilty of it, and though I've made an effort to be better
about it (and am), it's still a kind of "default" response I have to the
unexpected or things that don't follow the "path" that I imagined. I see a
similar pattern amongst many folks in the groups I mentioned.

I will say if anything, the overall demeanor of those groups has become a lot
more positive than I remember it being 5-10 (or more) years ago.

~~~
keithwhor
I think using "highly logical thought processes" to excuse (or at least
explain) highly negative and antisocial behaviour is an unfortunate, but
common, fallacy among some very intelligent people. It's great that you're
taking steps to overcome negativity you've seen in yourself.

Did you notice, however, that the only explanations you went to for these
negative approaches were "dealing with people not as logical as us" and
"genetic personality defect"? What's the common thread in these answers?
They're both examples of blame externalization (and thus perserving cognitive
dissonance - you're great the way you are!). If it's other people, you're not
in the wrong, you don't need to change. If it's genetic, then it's hard-coded,
and try as you might, you're going to have a hell of a time fixing it.

Now maybe you're right, and maybe you're wrong. Who am I to say? Your points
aren't invalid, just biased, and it's clear to see where it's coming from. But
I think the best way to negate this negativity (ha, ha?) is by having people
turn the mirror on themselves, first and foremost, before judging others.

How much of this negativity could be spared to begin with if people just
thought about how they would feel in someone else's shoes?

It's awesome that you've seen an upward trend in positivity. You said you've
been working on it yourself, you're definitely part of what's making it
better!

~~~
aninhumer
>having people turn the mirror on themselves, first and foremost, before
judging others.

Indeed. In any disagreement you have, there are two people at fault, but only
of those faults is in your power to fix.

------
jasonkester
The more we tolerate this here, the more it will become the norm.

HN's most attractive feature from day one has always been the positive,
intelligent, supportive community. Those are not traits you tend to find in
your typical 9-5 programmer (in my experience, at least), and are the exact
opposite of what you find in the communities that most of our early adopters
fled from (Slashdot was already hopeless by 2007, and programming.reddit.com
was already headed that way).

But those other communities are dying, and this place has taken over their
role as The Place to Talk About Tech Stuff. So we see a lot of their users
coming across, bringing with them the general depressive negativity and
inclination to snark and hostility. This behavior sometimes doesn't get
swatted down fast enough nor ruthlessly enough and bad comments are left to
stand. People see these comments and think they're acceptable. And the
standards erode.

There's not much to be done about it, unfortunately. We can't kick _everybody_
out, and it's not yet quite bad enough to form a new community and abandon
this place to the rabble.

Still, it's worth at least trying to fight. Flag ruthlessly, downvote comments
that don't belong here, based on tone rather than disagreement. Upvote the few
good things that do in fact belong here. Write good comments and otherwise
behave the way you want to see others behave.

~~~
ruswick
I think that there is a clear distinction between pure negativity and "snark"
or sardonicism. It is possible to be genuinely, objectively critical of things
without being arrogant or sarcastic. Criticism is a necessary facet of
discussion, and is indicative of a thoughtful community. "Asshole-sim" is not.
I'm of the belief that the discussion on HN tends towards the former.

>This behavior sometimes doesn't get swatted down fast enough nor ruthlessly
enough and bad comments are left to stand. People see these comments and think
they're acceptable. And the standards erode.

>Flag ruthlessly, downvote comments that don't belong here, based on tone
rather than disagreement.

I'm unsure of what you're advocating for. Are you for expunging the hyper-
negative, misogynistic near-spam of Reddit, or for doing away with negativity
entirely? (My hunch is latter, as fighting spam is trivially excepted and
needn't be argued.) The latter is incredibly dangerous and will work to the
detriment of the community inasmuch as HN, as a community of generally-
intelligent individuals, is capable of analyzing a story to a greater extend
than most news organizations or communities; and some sort of assault on
negativity would remove the ability for one to introduce warranted skepticism
or to dissent from general discussion. Skepticism, contrarianism, criticism,
etc. are incredibly valuable tools and are fundamental to HN and to discourse
in general. One should not have the merits of their ideas judged solely on the
"tone" articulated by them, and HN should certainly not seek to create
institutionalized positivity.

~~~
abraxasz
"Skepticism, contrarianism, criticism, etc. are incredibly valuable tools and
are fundamental to HN and to discourse in general. One should not have the
merits of their ideas judged solely on the "tone" articulated by them, and HN
should certainly not seek to create institutionalized positivity."

Completely agree with you. I've seen way too many comments that where
downvoted only because of the tone (even though the content itself was very
relevant), or because it expressed a dissident, politically incorrect idea.
When I see such a comment being downvoted, I automatically upvote it,
regardless of whether I agree or disagree with the content. I don't hang out
here to read opinions I'm already agreeing with. I'm far more interested in
intelligently argumented opinions that contradict mine. So, no it's not fun to
be bashed by the sarcasms of someone else, but if the opinion contained in the
bashing is relevant, then we should just suck it up, and answer to the
content.

~~~
jasonkester
You're mistaken. A comment with good ideas presented in an
insulting/snarky/offensive tone should get downvoted here. In that rare case,
it's often helpful to write a comment explaining why it was downvoted (perhaps
even with a link to the guidelines), and encourage the poster to rewrite it in
a tone that fits the room it was spoken in.

Some people will understand, rewrite, and become productive members of the
community. Others will get offended, write back with an angry rant about
censorship or something, and with luck find themselves hellbanned. Those are
the people who just aren't ever going to be welcome here. Fortunately, the
rest of the internet seems designed for them to fit right in.

------
groby_b
Or maybe we complain, to take the example of sexism, because there is a real
problem. That needs to be addressed.

And given that the first _two_ items you address are code of conduct & sexism,
I can't help but think "Of _course_ a white male programmer wouldn't see an
issue with that". To be very clear, not because I think all white males are
mean-spirited misogynists. Most of them are pretty nice people, in my
experience.

But because being part of the majority blinds people to minority issues. And
so, while I agree it's important to keep a positive outlook on life, I suggest
that _especially_ for issues that don't affect you directly, you take a deep
look if this is really just "negativity", or if there's a real issue lurking
beyond that.

And then let's fix them. In a positive way :)

~~~
rdegges
Author here. I completely agree with you that those are real problems. I have
a great wife (and sisters) who have experienced varying levels of sexism in
the technical world as well, and it really bothers me.

I didn't mean in my article that we should all be blind to the bad things
going on, I just feel like people quickly jump to negative conclusions and go
into pitchfork mode all too quickly. Constantly focusing on the negatives can
be a real emotional drain. It's a lot easier to focus on the positives and
solving problems. For instance, it's quite great that PyCon this year had over
20% female attendees! That's a big accomplishment compared to previous years'
stats. In addition, the code of conduct and public outreach made a lot of
people feel welcome and safe attending the event, which is a big win for
everyone!

When bad things happen, they must certainly be brought to light -- but
discussion around these problems could be far more constructive if people were
to focus their efforts and energy on resolving issues and working together
rather than blaming one another and becoming defensive or close-minded.

The first step to solving problems is always to identify the problem, but the
attitude you take to solving problems can make a huge difference both to
yourself and to your peers.

Thank you for the comment, I'm really surprised to see so many interesting
viewpoints about this topic.

~~~
groby_b
> and go into pitchfork mode all too quickly

Oh, I agree with you there.

> but the attitude you take to solving problems can make a huge difference
> both to yourself and to your peers.

That's an excellent insight, and one that's hard to keep in mind, at times.
Especially if most attempts at fixing a problem are greeted by essentially a
wave of bile and hate. It's easy to forget that most people are decent, when
the Internet makes it easy to only see the loudest ones.

That's where I'd say I disagree with you - it's not easy to focus on the
positive. It depends on the reaction of your peers. Yes, we must be the change
we wish to see in the world - but emulating Ghandi all the time is something
only very few succeed at.

Thank you for the reminder that it's worth trying, though.

------
ilaksh
I remember sitting in a meeting some years ago and we were discussing a new
issue tracking system that was being demoed on the projector. The editor
component took a full 10 to 15 seconds to load into the page every time. So I
said "that editor sucks". It was one of the few things I had said during the
meeting.

The manager was very irritated and said something like "We don't tolerate that
kind of negativity here". And continued, as if I had said something awful. He
said something like "unless you have a solution to a problem" something
something in the process of explaining why I shouldn't say that.

So five minutes after the meeting I found out how to disable the slow
graphical editor and then the issue tracker became usable for normal people.

Well, I guess I am a negative person then. If it sucks, it sucks.

I will try to take some of this advice constructively though, because I do
spend a lot of time focusing on problems that need to be solved. But I can't
help but think that the reason a lot of people aren't so critical or
'negative' is that they have just given up on fixing things, or are just so
generally ineffective at problem solving that they naturally accept everything
as it is.

I would rather be a negative bastard who identifies and solves problems than a
happy ineffectual drone who just goes along to get along and accepts the
status quo no matter how broken.

~~~
lutterkd
The problem isn't that you raise the issue, the problem is the aggressive
language "sucks". Not has problems, not is limited, "sucks".

The guy writing it probably knows it has problems. He's probably working
really hard on it. Maybe he stayed late at work to try to improve it, instead
of seeing his girlfriend. And you come along and just say "sucks". Even if he
wasn't there, you're still having a go at him in front of other people.

Being polite, diplomatic, calm and considered is not being an "ineffectual
drone". You're falling into that mindset that you have to be a cunt to get
stuff done. You don't.

------
jader201
_> The first (and only) thing that immediately came to mind was that I wanted
to be a better person: I wanted to be smarter, more successful, and happy._

When I read this, the first thing I thought of is, "Well _that's_ your
problem."

To me, based on my experiences and what I've read and observed from other
people, many people find the most happiness from focusing less on oneself, and
focusing more on others.

What can I do to enhance the life of someone else? What can I do to make a
positive impact on others? What can I do to make a difference on the well
being of society?

But instead, it seems like the thought of the quoted sentence is focusing more
on benefiting oneself -- make _me_ smarter, make _me_ more successful, make
_me_ happier.

Don't get me wrong, I'm talking to myself as well, because I often find myself
too focused on _me_. But I feel that when I instead start to focus on having a
positive impact on someone else, _that's_ when I start to experience genuine
happiness. _That's_ what I feel makes me a better person.

~~~
tsumnia
It's a little bit of a Catch-22, but focusing on self first definitely
improves happiness. About 9 years ago, I had terrible anger issues, over
weight and all the stereotypes of the computer dork. One day, after sitting on
WoW for 4 hours waiting to buy Arena points, I thought "What am I doing with
myself?" and shifted gears to working out.

That moment of selfishness, is what helped pull me out of whatever rut I was
in. 8 years later, I have a black belt in one martial art, a blue in a second,
and I'm offering nutritional tips to friends and family.

Happiness doesn't have to be volunteering at the soup kitchen every week, but
the general "Don't be a dick to anyone" can really boost your mood. I'm not
saying be a doormat, stand your ground, but don't be a dick about it either.

~~~
Domenic_S
> _About 9 years ago [...] after sitting on WoW for 4 hours waiting to buy
> Arena points_

I don't doubt your story, but your timeline is off. Arena was introduced with
BC, which was Jan 2007 -- 6 years ago, not 9. It would have been impossible to
buy arena points 9 years ago because they didn't exist.

That aside, I don't see that as selfishness, just introspection. If
selfishness is doing something for your own benefit, then you did an
_unselfish_ thing. You made the lives of everyone around you better, and
contributed more to your family and society. That isn't selfish!

~~~
tsumnia
You're right, my math was way off, thanks for catching that. It was still
Arena points, cause I remember quitting the next day.

------
hjay
Loved this post.

I've noticed many of the characteristics Randall described about his "old"
self, and in the past few months I have made it a goal for myself to be less
negative, and make a conscious effort to notice when I am being very negative.

------
Draco6slayer
This is stupid and nobody likes it. Go back to your terrible life as a
terrible person who nobody likes.

But in all seriousness, I think you do have to take the negative with the
positive, so long as both are constructive. It'd be stupid to take something
sexist and cast it aside and make jokes about it as if it doesn't matter.
Because it does matter. The technical community is negative because it has
certain requirements that are not met. The government is doing bad things, as
are private corporations. We cannot ignore these things because they are
negative. But I agree that we should find positives. The trick is that, in
good discussion, positive and negative are unimportant. What matters is
constructiveness.

Saying 'This is great!' is just as useless as saying 'This sucks!'. Positive
conversation is fine, but it is not necessary in intelligent discussion,
because not every topic is inherently positive.

------
dmiladinov
> _"Accept the behavior of others as it is, and don't allow yourself to
> project your desired behavior onto others."_

If you could only read one sentence in TFA, this should be it.

To it, I would also just add: "Instead, show others how you would have them
behave by behaving that way yourself."

------
gavinflud
I wholeheartedly agree. I've noticed it a lot over the last while where many
people in the software industry who write blog posts or contribute to forums
just have an air of negativity about them. That being said, I'm sure no matter
where you look there will be plenty of people who focus on the negatives in
life, that's just in their nature.

My preference is to be a positive person and focus on making my life (and
hopefully other people's lives) happy and reading blog posts by similar minded
people only reinforces that.

------
osmsiberiano
There's a nice book about positive attitude, "Bright Sided" by Barbara
Ehrenreich (IIRC). Follows the history of positive thinking from the epoch of
calvinism up until today. Will be useful to read for you.

------
stared
Sure, frustration reduces happiness.

However, many things were created (or fixed) exactly because of frustration
(sometimes it is the best motivation for solving real, burning problems,
instead of artificial ones).

Likewise, perfectionism is almost always painful for both the person in charge
(as things never get perfect) and co-workers, family, etc. But many times the
effort is worth it, and afterwards it is better to look back at a masterpiece
born in pain, than a slackly and broken thing created in a laid-back way.

Perhaps it is why many creators (both in tech and arts) were depressive, but
still able to accomplish a lot (though, sure, it is not a requirement). And
sure, it is a matter of balance - one one hand to be able to spot real
problems, on the other - still be motivated enough to finish them (spotting
but being not able to fix is the worst state of mind, arguably).

------
superfresh
It's also important to note how important positive behavior is on those around
you. One thing I've learned since programming professionally is that it's a
team sport -- doesn't have to be, but in most cases you'll develop along with
others. When you develops habits of cynicism and negativity _it spreads_. To
those junior, to your direct peers, and especially to non-technical teammates.

I've found that by setting a positive tone, _especially_ in somewhat negative
situations, speaks volumes. Cynicism is easy. Pushing those feelings aside and
remaining stoic in tough times helps tremendously.

------
kvad
Whats up Ran!, Great read on a day of bad news. But I agree with Jader201, its
hard to be happy even if I'm personally successful. There are so many
struggling. Maybe its cause I grew up playing competitive team sports. But
seeing so many smart engineers out of work or pushed around is a shame. Its a
choice to help others and make their happiness a priory. There are just so
many people having a hard time right now. Personally, It hurts to see.

I just cant put blinders on and focus on myself. Wish I could.

------
tudorconstantin
Well, there are people plain dumb who needs me to be angry and help them
correct their behaviour - they might not even be aware of that yet.

In a more serious manner, drama is one thing that gains attention and strong,
opinionated, emotionfull articles are getting attention. Add some mediocrity
to the article by choosing a general, unspecialised subject on which everybody
is able to express an opinion and that's it, you have a front page article.

------
Nursie
As a natural cynic and old ex goth, let me say that being positive is _really
hard work_. But worth it.

I noticed one day in an old job that two distinct things happened when
management presented an idea to the engineering teams. Nearly everyone (self
included to a greater or lesser extent) would start racking their brains for
reasons why this, whatever it is, is a terrible idea that must be argued
against, or why it just straight out couldn't work.

All except one guy, a friend and one of the brightest sparks on the team, who
would start thinking of how he could implement it and what new, interesting
tech he could use to get there. Sometimes he would come to the conclusion it
was a bad idea, or impossible, but he didn't look for that first. As a result
he did more novel, interesting work than the rest of the team(s) who generally
spent their time mumbling and complaining.

That's when I decided to try and be that way too.

------
zachdonovan
Reading this article reminded me of this post from Myles Recny:

<http://edu.mkrecny.com/thoughts/be-nice-to-programmers>

Both that article and this one resonated with me on a certain level. Software
development can be such a hypercritical field, involving so much self-
recrimination.

That, in turn, reminds me of Alan Cooper's characterization of Homo Logicus in
The Inmates Are Running The Asylum. Programmers are forced to look at all
possibilities, and are trained to point out even extremely unlikely cases.
This emphasis on edge-cases is confusing and counter-intuitive to non-
programmers, who tend to think in terms of probable cases.

Perhaps too much concentrated attention on possible cases is turning us all
sour.

------
era86
I feel like most programmers have trained themselves to expect the worst.
Pessimism forces you to write robust code. I'm not saying it's the only way to
produce robust code, but it definitely helps. I think that's why a lot of
HackerNews posts are pessimistic (negative).

------
xsuvea
Despite not getting into programming until I was 26, having come from an arts
background of study, I've been programming applications that are used by
hundreds of people since then. I don't code through the night, am not good
enough to be hired by a start up or use rails or the latest tool the bullies
of the tech world are going on about. No one I write for gives a flying fuck
about anything except an application that is easy to use and does everything
they asked for. Any of the incredible languages out there are capable of
giving users what they want right now so no need to keep banging on about the
latest version or giving out about the other camps.

------
kstenerud
It's a culture thing, and mob mentality. A few leaders set the tone and then
everyone runs with it, eager to make their mark. Every major event, especially
those with strong emotional content, starts with a trigger post, followed by a
deluge of "my take on X" posts, complete with 600+ thread comments, after
which it slowly fades away, with only a few hardcore people shouting "why
doesn't anyone care about X anymore!?"

That's human. That's culture. The negativity will eventually fade once the
general startup mood improves from massive infusions of cheap money again, at
which point the same fad cycle will continue to occur, but with a much rosier
tint.

------
wfunction
Am I the only one who feels this post is also negative, but only in a meta-
sense?

------
hypertexthero
Highly recommended books: [Think on These Things](<http://www.jiddu-
krishnamurti.net/en/think-on-these-things>) and [The First and Last
Freedom]([http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/the-first-and-last-
free...](http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/the-first-and-last-freedom)) by
Jiddu Krishnamurti

------
pekk
People differ. Different people are also valid and can get things done, and
may have unique strengths. Lincoln was classified as "melancholic." Pessimists
may have more accurate views of many things. Do we really have to demand that
everyone have the same personality as ourselves?

~~~
readme
There's no sort of demand in the article. The advice there is to be a passive
observer of human behavior rather than getting angry and engaging in
flamewars.

Given the current climate I see on HN, this advice is spot on.

------
jerryhuang100
Great post! especially after the week-long PyCon rants on HN front-page.

------
skrebbel
Snap out of that filter bubble, programming community != hacker news and
hacker news != programming community.

Upvotes for scandal outrages don't mean we've all become grumpy.

------
Ensorceled
This is NOT new. You could see this same problem on usenet in the 80's and on
Slashdot. Programmers are often negative, it's pretty much an archetype.

------
auctiontheory
_The How of Happiness_ is a research-backed yet very practical/usable book
describing several techniques for finding happiness in life.

------
hallomac2013
Thank you for this very enlightening post.

------
ryderm
There is so much irony in this post and these comments. Pretty funny if you
ask me.

------
justplay
pro tip : To gain the twitter followers start tweeting positive views .

------
andyl
When I discovered Hacker News, I loved it because it seemed to be 100% about
technology and internet startups. It doesn't feel like that to me any more.

I've been involved with other sites where the political discussions
overwhelmed the core topic, and the audience just collapsed in a tailspin of
high emotions.

I hope Hacker News doesn't go that route.

~~~
ryankey721
I kind of like the mixed bag that Hacker News seems to be.

I'm pretty new here, but I enjoy reading about the future of programming
languages alongside posts about Marcus Aurelius' writings. It just seems that
it's mostly content about being the best you that you can be and having a
broad range of knowledge.

~~~
eric-hu
Do you think the recent "Inappropriate comments at Pycon 2013 called out"
thread contributed to that mixed bag in a good way?

I worded that carefully. I don't want to draw out sides on that thread topic,
just whether it contributed to an educational atmosphere and meaningful
discussion on HN.

~~~
duaneb
I think it's a discussion that needs to take place. I am not sure HN is the
place to do it, but where else?

------
shadowrunner
The internet is dehumanizing. I see the effect in myself. We'd never say half
the things in person that we say online. The instantaneous nature of computers
has made us all impatient brats.

Especially _you._

------
cakeface
I read that and felt that it was a negative post about negative posts.

------
Sputum
Thanks, weeaboo

------
languagehacker
Vacuous, Zig-Ziglar-esque handwaving with an unnecessary bad anime drawing.

Way to get on HN, though. Everything else looks really educational in
comparison, so I'm sure the rest of the authors appreciate it.

~~~
kevincrane
Alright Debbie Downer.

