
Silicon Valley Could Offer a Public Bus Commute That's Quicker Than Driving - gkop
http://www.citylab.com/commute/2014/11/silicon-valley-may-soon-offer-a-public-bus-commute-thats-quicker-than-driving/382897/
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iandanforth
If you've never lived in a city that does busing well you probably think this
is a silly idea. I did before I lived in Ottawa. They have tons of busses
running all the time with dedicated bus _roads_ along many stretches. It's
just such a sensible system, but until you've lived it's a hard sell.

~~~
noarchy
If you don't live along Ottawa's Transitway, though, your experience may be
quite different. It is popular for Ottawans to beat up on OCTranspo.

With all of that said, it will be interesting to see how the LRT changes
things. Right now it is causing headaches, so the proof will be once the line
is up and running.

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timjahn
"The big advantage of driving to work over taking the bus is time. A bus ride
just takes longer: walking to the stop, waiting for the bus, picking up
passengers, all while toughing out the same traffic as cars."

Generally, yes, driving will always beat a bus. Train is always the way to go,
as there is no traffic on the tracks (a majority of the time).

To me, it's a common misconception that driving is quicker. In Chicago,
driving is almost never quicker (due to traffic), and regardless, it's always
wasted time. You can't DO anything while you're driving. Taking the bus or the
L, at least you can work on what you need to work on.

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selectodude
>In Chicago, driving is almost never quicker

Come on, that's not even the slightest bit true.

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timjahn
Not sure where you live but I'm off the Kennedy and its absolutely true.

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psychometry
OK, so that's a conclusion you've reached from a sample size of one. Try
commuting on one of the LSD buses and you'd come to the opposite conclusion.

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discardorama
> The big advantage of driving to work over taking the bus is time

No. The big advantage of driving is reliability: I know that my means of
transportation will be there, where I left it, at any time that I want it. How
many of us have missed the CalTrain by a few minutes, only to have to wait an
hour till the next one comes by?

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whyenot
CalTrain is decent unless there is a breakdown or as happens on average more
than once a month, someone is struck by a train. If either of those things
happen, the whole system shuts down and you can easily be two hours late. I
don't know how to solve the problem, but it really sucks and keeps CalTrain
from being a dependable form of transportation.

~~~
ulfw
By building infrastructure new rather than utilising something that is not
from 1863. I mean I am shocked the line isn't even electrified yet. Something
that happened across Europe fifty years ago.

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dmishe
I like how it takes the tech center of the world 3 years to add a bus lane and
then another 22 to make something of it

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ulfw
If you ever lived there you'd know that those times are optimistic 'best case'
scenarios. Most likely it won't even happen at all.

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dmishe
Yeah I've moved here 6 months ago :)

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Patrick_Devine
Or, alternatively, you could pump all that money into the Caltrain
electrification project which runs roughly along the same route between the
exact same destinations.

I do, however think a road diet on El Camino would be nice. As someone who
lives within 2 blocks, it's really unpleasant to have cross 84'\+ of asphalt
to get to the other side of the street. 10' traffic lanes and separated bike
lanes would go a long way to making it more livable.

~~~
greglindahl
I believe that the expected total passenger volume is higher than what
electrified Caltrain can support by itself... and many trips from some point
on El Camino to another point on El Camino will find the BRT to be faster.

~~~
Patrick_Devine
I haven't seen the figures for passenger volume, but given you can more easily
take your bicycle onto Caltrain than on BRT, my strong preference would be for
more frequent train service.

As it is, the 522 doesn't stop anywhere close to my house, so would require
biking to a stop. I believe the BRT stops are the same as the 522?

~~~
greglindahl
The plan for Caltrain is to have more frequent train service.

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forrestthewoods
I think a pre-requisite to a "good" public transportation infrastructure is a
shitty road infrastructure. To me asking for better public transportation is,
to quote Henry Ford, asking for a Faster Horse.

I'm a member of the autonomous vehicle church. I think a fleet of self-driving
cars absolutely blows away any bus system. And that's without roads
specialized for the self driving car. Once you start custom crafting
intersections it just gets even better.

~~~
slyall
Some problems with autonomous vehicles:

* Time. Lets be optomistic and say they are perfected in 5 years time AND can be added to new cars for minimal cost then then it'll be say 2030 before all the cars on the road have them (assuming laws outlaw manual cars when 90% of people are using driverless ones)

* Now at that point we are going to assuming that driverless cars are so good that they get twice the efficiency on your local road and highways resemble NASCAR races (without the 5% chance of a crash each trip)

* The problem is that now since driving is so easy the amount of traffic goes up so you are back where you were previously. Anywhere with enough traffic to have problems already has a tonne of latent demand just sitting around ready to generate more journeys.

Note:

* 5 years is really optimistic for driverless car perfection

* 10 years is to ban all manual cars?

* Ever tried crossing a NASCAR raceway on foot?

* Your assuming driverless vans/buses won't also happen. Share your rid cost with a dozen others, semi-fixed routes (easier to survey/programme), fleet management.

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saraid216
> * Every tried crossing a NASCAR raceway on foot?

This is one of the interesting advantages a public transit system has over a
self-driving fleet of cars (which, incidentally, I also look forward to). Mass
transit depends on the concept of "stops" or "stations". The way people get
between destinations (like their home, the shop, etc.) and the transit station
is largely by walking. Thus, mass transit necessarily builds in pedestrian
friendliness.

This isn't true for cars, which do not have such nexi. (Indeed, this lack is
generally agreed to be an advantage.) This means that such designs will have
to deliberately include pedestrian friendliness in order to have it, rather
than being forced into it by the facts of the design requirements.

I'm not saying it's a sufficient advantage for one or the other, but it's a
definite thing.

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jtlienwis
I used to use the Silicon Valley bus system back in the 80's. On rainy days
when you most needed the bus system to work all the Grumman buses they had
then had a feature that when it rained, the electrical system would short out
and the buses would stop running. Hopefully they have fixed that.

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OmarIsmail
My guess is that a near term local maxima is the combination of Lyft/Uber and
a bus - or Uber Pool on steroids. It's very rare that I need to leave _now_ ,
usually if I leave sometime in the next 30 minutes that is sufficient.
Furthermore I don't mind walking a minute or two to get to the car/bus, or
from the car/bus to my final destination.

Relaxing the constraints on time and distance will (my guess) vastly increase
the number of people that want to go on a similar route as me. Therefore
depending on how many people get matched up the system can intelligently
assign the right type of vehicle (small car, SUV, small bus, big bus).

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hw
A dedicated lane for buses seems like quite a waste if there aren't many buses
sharing that same route. Dedicated lanes on a road like El Camino Real with
plenty of traffic lights won't help too much either. I've lived in a city
where there were dedicated lanes for buses and it was a nightmare if you were
driving, especially if you had to make a turn that takes you across these
dedicated bus lanes. There's also issues of bottlenecks where the bus lanes
end and merge into regular lanes.

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stevep98
My understandings is that the plan calls for the bus lanes to be in the
median. And the traffic lights will be synchronized so the buses won't have to
stop.

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revelation
Umm, by 2040?

My plan for 2040 was to step outside and _not_ see a single freaking personal
use car, or bus (stop|lane). Surely we'll have figured out a sane solution by
then to _commuting_?

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myhf
[http://longbets.org/](http://longbets.org/)

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Bahamut
I actually haven't had a bad experience for the most part with the 522 on El
Camino going westward - I'd make it from Sunnyvale/Mountain View to Downtown
Palo Alto in ~20 minutes, which compares quite favorably to driving. Then
again, I often am leaving for work around 6:30 - 7:30, so I rarely see the
traffic issues that are typical around 8 am.

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craftkiller
you shut your mouth, I want a faster commute :-)

~~~
ulfw
You'll have it. In 26 years from now!

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TheCoelacanth
I will be impressed if they actually manage to build BRT. BRT projects in the
US tend to suffer from "BRT creep". Although the upfront cost is significantly
lower than rail, it is still much more expensive than normal buses, so most
localities don't have the political will to build BRT without removing most of
the features that make it rapid.

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greglindahl
... in this case the lane already exists. We're talking platforms and re-
striping. The biggest cost is the political argument about making some car
journeys take more time.

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TheCoelacanth
That helps, but the cost of the other features is still significant. I would
still expect them to get a lot of complaints about why they are spending so
much money on "bus stops" and why they can't just put up a pole with a little
sign on it.

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ulfw
"In the plan's best-case scenario, the El Camino BRT would travel the corridor
almost as quickly as cars by 2018, when the line hopes to open, and
occasionally beat them by 2040."

In the BEST CASE it could OCCASIONALLY beat cars 26 years from now. Is that
some kind of joke? I mean seriously now.

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rgovind
I wonder if it is possible to rent out (motor)bikes or mopeds so people can
commute short distances without needing to wait for a bus. For example, it
would be great to have a (motor)bike from great mall to other parts of
milpitas or nearby places in San Jose

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tricolon
During a recent visit to SF, I noticed some red scooters with the Scoot logo
on them: [http://scootnetworks.com/](http://scootnetworks.com/)

I don't know if they have plans to expand to San Jose.

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Animats
This proposes a bus line parallel to the rail line. That's kind of pointless.

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ac29
Some places along the route the distance from the Caltrain tracks to El Camino
would take 20+ minutes to walk.

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mistakoala
Does it account for performance artists sitting down in front of the bus to
protest about something or other, though?

