
3D printing: The PC all over again?  - bootload
http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2012/09/3d-printing?fsrc=scn/tw_ec/difference_engine_the_pc_all_over_again_
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hospadam
Honest question: what can average people use 3d printers for realistically?
Every time I read more - I want one. But then I try and figure out what kind
of thing I'd print. Besides custom chess pieces and my own Legos - am I
missing anything? Or are they just for engineers, "builders", and architects.

I know they're expensive now - but lets assume they come down to ~$500 (price
point where tablets took off).

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epaik
I think the greatest use case isn't printing stand-alone objects, but rather
replacement parts for existing products. Say, your laptop screen hinge breaks.
Instead of ordering a new one from the manufacturer, you could print your own
replacement at home.

~~~
iamwil
That won't be the case until 3D modeling tools get much easier to use. Current
3D modeling tools are either expensive, or hard to use. In addition, most
average people aren't versed in thinking about objects in 3D in their minds.
There are software like Matterport, where you can scan things, but until you
can scan the broken parts, and "glue" it together in software easily, this
won't happen.

It's like saying the greatest use case for computers is that you can program
your own accounting program to do your own taxes. No. I went to the computer
history museum, and they had a model of "easy to use" computer for moms in the
kitchen. What was on the controls? Loading and unloading registers. They were
completely off the mark on that one.

Chances are, it'll enable makers to offer services that have a real world
component that other people can order easily, and enable new kinds of
behavior.

~~~
wtallis
I know several kids who have, on their own, discovered and learned how to use
SketchUp, without anything like access to a 3d printer as motivation - just a
fascination with the idea of building virtual objects. It's a severely limited
tool, but that's not enough of a turn-off to prevent them from learning the
basics of 3d modeling. Since completed models can be readily shared amongst
those who use 3d printers, I think it's safe to say that a lack of competent
3d modelers won't be a limiting factor for the growth of 3d printing. And as
3d printers become more affordable, the market for better affordable CAD tools
with absolutely explode, with SketchUp racing to add more advanced features,
and companies like SolidWorks trying to find a way to release an affordable
product without completely cannibalizing their existing business model.

~~~
iamwil
I don't doubt the kids will pick it up quickly, just as kids picked up
programming in the computer's early days.

But to the originally stated use case of fixing broken parts, I don't think
that will happen as kids aren't usually running around fixing parts. And for
the rest of us, only some of us have enough umph to learn how to 3D model. The
vast majority need something easier to make the fixing broken parts scenario a
reality.

However, I guess I can see a scenario where older people hire kids to fix
parts, like how older people hired kids to do websites in the 90's.

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rsaarelm
I can't think of regular uses I'd have for present-day 3D printers, but I do
appreciate the "1970s affordable microcomputer" comparison. I'd have a hard
time thinking of an use for an Altair 8800 too.

Printing clothes would be one killer app for me (everyone needs them, they
wear out, the design variety space is huge), but I don't see how you'd go from
the current tech into something that can do clothes.

~~~
mtgx
I don't see why it should be that hard. There are already those machines that
make the material. You just need to make one that can take a virtual model
from the PC and "build it".

~~~
rsaarelm
The "building it" for clothes currently involves cutting and sewing the
material. I don't see how that would be very easy to do with a machine with
anywhere close to as few degrees of freedom as a 3D printer.

I suppose you could try to make the thing extrude the cloth already weaved in
a closed loop, like doing a sock by extruding concentric woven circles and
tapering them off to the tip. Then if you could split the circle into two or
three you could try to do shirts and pants.

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dccoolgai
It's so tempting to say this is just sensationalist hyperbole...but go watch
the beginning of "Pirates of Silicon Valley"...the parallels are uncanny.

~~~
iamwil
Well, you have to be skeptical for the right reasons. It is true there's both
lots of hype and cynicism.

3D printing parallels computers in many ways, but it's important to see how it
is different as well. Unlike computers, I currently can't see anything
resembling Moore's law. In addition, it may have some version of the "Singer
Problem". When sewing machines came out, you could have claimed that everyone
would make their own clothes. But we don't. Why don't we?

Or when camcorders first came out in the early 80's, some people were enthused
about being able to record their own shows, and talked about how it was going
to disrupt traditional media. However, the missing piece they failed to take
into account was that there was no method of distribution. It wasn't until
Youtube came along that this vision came to be.

That said, I'm enthused about its possibilities. I've got a printer at home,
and I've been exploring what it's good for, and so far, I'm optimistic.

~~~
thenomad
_When sewing machines came out, you could have claimed that everyone would
make their own clothes. But we don't. Why don't we?_

Because making your own clothes still takes bloody ages and a lot of
expertise. I've attempted to learn both 3D modeling and clothesmaking in the
past, and IMO, 3D modeling was easier. And even a skilled amateur tailor takes
a couple of days to make a dress or a suit-equivalent.

If 3D printing only makes Making as easy as tailoring, it's not going to get
very far very fast. If it makes it as easy as assembling IKEA furniture,
though, we're off to the races.

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sami36
Has anyone seen this ? it claims to print at 25 microns res & its founders
have an impressive pedigree.

[http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/formlabs/form-1-an-
affor...](http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/formlabs/form-1-an-affordable-
professional-3d-printer?ref=live)

I have no connection whatsoever to the project besides being a 3D printing
enthusiast.

~~~
voodoomagicman
This printer uses photolithography vs FDM used by reprap and makerbot - it
works by using a laser to solidify photopolymer. These printers are capable of
very high resoltion, but the downside is that their substrate can cost
hundreds of dollars / liter.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Current cost for the Form 1 substrate is ~$150/liter.

~~~
wtallis
And a quick check shows ABS filament at about $40/L.

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mahyarm
And 4 pounds of small ABS pellets from ebay is $15.

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JumpCrisscross
Are there any 3D printers that can print, amongst other substrates, conductive
layers? It would open up a whole world of 3D chip design to amateurs.

~~~
iamwil
Yes. The reprappers are making strides in this direction. There's also
conductive ABS plastic.

<http://www.repraper.com/goods.php?id=172>

<http://blog.reprap.org/search/label/Printing%20Conductors>

[http://blog.reprap.org/2012/04/some-more-printed-
circuitry.h...](http://blog.reprap.org/2012/04/some-more-printed-
circuitry.html)

However, you're thinking too far ahead. The current home printers don't have
the resolution to print circuits on the scale of a chip. You could probably do
it, but the chip would be basic, and quite big and slow.

~~~
potatolicious
I'm quite willing to settle for just printing PCBs at home. There are low-
volume PCB printing services but they are still quite expensive, not to
mention slow to turn around. There is a strong space here for a 3D printer to
come in.

~~~
pvidler
Milling seems like a better bet (than printing) for home PCBs without the
etching. It's cheaper and more accurate, like this one:

[http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/imodela-milling-
mach...](http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/imodela-milling-
machine-p-1011.html)

Downside is that there's no solder resist, so SMT parts would be
tricky/impossible to solder. Also the above model only handles tiny boards —
something that can do a standard 160x100 mm eurocard would be nice.

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angersock
Personally, I think that the 3D printer fad is going to sideline itself before
it ever reaches court in any significant way. Why, you ask?

Because people are lazy. I see farmers using these, I see clever immigrants
and poor nations, sure.

But mainstream middle America? Probably not. How many people have a home
lathe, mill, or drill press? Hell, how many even have basic power tools
(circular saw, hand drill, jigsaw, and so on)?

How many people write code for the machines they own? The computer (despite
how we may treat it even today) is hardly new technology, nor two decades
later is the Internet.

I'm sorry to be such a downer, but I think that the vast consumerist masses
will probably not ride a fleet of these gizmos into a post-scarcity future.

:(

~~~
kumarm
I have a different view on this. Future manufacturing is 90% 3D Printing. But
its not about printing at your house. You get your orders printed at local
mall and shops that has the right equipment (Only raw materials transported).

~~~
angersock
This makes a great deal of sense to me--I imagine on-demand manufacturing
working very well, outside of the home, for the reasons that I think it won't
be popular inside the home: somebody else does the work.

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stevewilhelm
I'll buy a 3D printer when I can print all the pieces to build a Nerf N-Strike
Elite Hail Fire <http://s831.us/hail-fire> for under forty dollars worth of
materials and it can be printed and assembled in under three hours.

I picked this item because it was featured in the Wired magazine article right
after their "3D printers are the next PC" article.

~~~
bluedanieru
I'm similar, except replace 'Nerf N-Strike Elite Hail Fire' with '3D printer'
(and I'm a bit more flexible on raw materials cost).

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danboarder
3D printers will get fast. We don't think twice about printing on paper now;
in the future you'll print out a recyclable mug for your morning coffee. Why
have cabinets full of dishes when you can print a custom color set for
tonights dinner? Wash and recycle, no storage needed.

~~~
thenomad
Mugs? Ooh, now, this is interesting.

2 questions:

1) Can an affordable 3D printer actually print a mug that's safe to drink out
of? (Doesn't leech nasty chemicals into your coffee, doesn't melt and dump
boiling tea on your genital area?)

2) Are there any 3D printers that can also paint the surface of what they
print yet?

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Bjorkbat
So, they're saying that the 3D printer is like the PC in that it's one big
piracy box?

I'm disappointed, but I guess all the speculation about how the 3D printer
will change our lives for the better has been covered by now.

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brianbreslin
question/poll: at what price point will you buy a 3d printer for your home?

~~~
simcop2387
For me it was the 500 dollar mark. So far it's managed to make some trinkets
and a car part that didn't exist but I needed to fix the electrical system in
a 20 year old car. I wouldn't say it's "paid for itself" yet but it's
certainly such an interesting thing that I don't mind.

~~~
Kronopath
"Was"? Where can you find one at the $500 mark?

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simcop2387
Was because I own one now, so the question of where it has to fall is already
answered.

I got in on the kickstarter for the printrbot and got it at $500, they sell in
the store at $550 now [1][2]. Though apparently only the woodcut versions.

They do however have the [3] Jr version that's only $399 but I have NO idea
how well it works.

[1] <https://printrbot.com/shop/printrbot-lc/> [2]
<https://printrbot.com/shop/printrbot/> [3]
<https://printrbot.com/shop/printrbot-jr/>

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31reasons
I want one food printer.

~~~
Mordor
Yeah, one which can print gummy bears :)

