

Microsoft Unveils Mango, the Latest Version of Windows Phone - Garbage
http://mashable.com/2011/05/24/windows-phone-mango/

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jessevondoom
I'm pretty impressed by the path MS has taken with their mobile platform —
rather than simply aping iOS or Android they're trying new ideas and it seems
like they've put a lot of legitimate thought into how people interact with
their mobile devices.

It may wind up serving a different consumer space than the Android or iPhone
app-heavy consumer, and that's why it's interesting.

~~~
r00fus
Not to imply anything, but are any of the iOS or Android UI / interaction
models patented?

If so, that may have forced Microsoft's hand in their completely different UI.

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forgottenpaswrd
I think it was more like "Apple is eating our lunch and we need to have
something FAST" or we will be dead on mobile.

Apple and google(they bought the company Android) spent a lot of time
designing their mobile OSes.

MS would have to spend the same time designing the UI, they do not have time,
so they created something very simple(drawing simple vector shapes with
orthogonal pictures is extremely easy and fast to do), and will use money to
force their product into the market, buying whatever they need(just Nokia deal
took MS BILLIONS vs Android taking tens of millions from Google, add the money
they will give to carriers) because they CAN'T LOOSE THE MOBILE WARS. If they
do they loose the train of the future.

~~~
ddagradi
Achieving simplicity in design is more difficult than just throwing a ton of
buttons, gradients and drop shadows at the problem. I'm an iOS user, and a
huge fan of that model, but Microsoft is doing a good job of crafting an
experience that differentiates itself from the iOS (and Android) paradigm of
interaction.

Don't mistake a lack of "flashiness" for a lack of taste. Windows Phone is a
pretty classy product with a decent chance of success as long as Microsoft
doesn't shoot themselves in the foot.

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billybob
My thought: Microsoft should try to capture the low end.

I know, it sounds dumb, but right now they have a terrible history of
competing with Apple and Android. If you're going to shell out hundreds of
bucks, are you going to risk it on another Microsoft device?

On the other hand, if you were going to get a free phone anyway, and somebody
tells you that the new MS "smart" phone is free, why not try it? If they can
get wide adoption there, get a lot of user feedback and keep improving, they
can start releasing nicer handsets and work their way up into the premium
market.

Of course, all this assumes that they can make a phone with cheap hardware
which performs decently and is truly a step up for flip-phone users, and that
they can get adoption there. But at least those folks have lower standards and
less to lose by getting a Microsoft phone. (Which, by the way, should NOT be
called a Windows phone.)

It's the "a smart phone in every pocket" strategy. :)

~~~
SwellJoe
Problems I see with this:

\- Low end phones tend to be crappy. If everyone who gets a "free" low end
Windows phone hates it because the phone isn't very good, they're going to
trash talk Windows phones, even if the OS doesn't suck. Windows phones already
get trash-talked quite a lot (I don't know anyone with a Windows phone that
actually likes it). I don't know anyone with a WP7 device, so I don't know if
it Windows still sucks on mobile devices, but there's already a bad reputation
to overcome. I know you've addressed this with this sentence: "all this
assumes that they can make a phone with cheap hardware which performs
decently", but you can't really wave away the limitations of the technology.
In a year, feature phone priced hardware will be smartphone capable...but
Windows Phone will be even further behind Android by then.

\- Windows Phone is not, as far as I know, a resource light OS. Putting it on
an underpowered phone in order to keep the price really low is likely to lead
to an even worse user experience than normal. Again, trash-talking end users
would be the result.

\- To make phones cheaper than Android phones, Microsoft would have to give
away the OS for free, and try to make the revenue back through app store
purchases or something. Microsoft doesn't have a history of giving away the
razor and selling the blades at a steep markup (XBOX might be a counterpoint,
since it reportedly was a loss-leader in the beginning).

\- There is already a solid low-end smartphone market built on Android. The
Optimus line, for instance, is available for free with contract from several
providers, and for under $200 without a contract, and is a very serviceable
smart phone; roughly comparable to a Nexus One, though not quite as nicely
constructed. With a contract, even the iPhone is now close to free ($49 for a
3GS).

Feature phone users have already mostly begun migrating to smartphones. The
only people I know who still use dumb phones are people on pay-as-you-go
plans, that didn't offer smart phones when they bought their phone a year or
two or three ago. Smart phones are now common on pay-as-you-go carriers, and
most of the people I know on those plans are upgrading or planning to upgrade
in the next few months.

So, to summarize: Beating Android to the bottom seems untenable. Beating Apple
for the aspirational market seems untenable (since nobody aspires to use
Microsoft, as it was historically the value choice). Microsoft needs to find a
niche in the smartphone market, but I think all the good ones are taken.
Blackberry had a good one in the enterprise market...but they've lost it by
falling so far behind technically. Maybe Microsoft can win in the enterprise
niche and fill the hole probably left by Blackberry (though both iPhone and
Android are reasonably capable of serving in that role, neither has focused on
it).

~~~
Athtar
Minor nitpick:

>> \- Windows Phone is not, as far as I know, a resource light OS. Putting it
on an underpowered phone in order to keep the price really low is likely to
lead to an even worse user experience than normal. Again, trash-talking end
users would be the result.

WP7 is actually a ridiculously light OS. All of the current WP7 phones uses
the older generation Snapdragon processors, but they are still faster then
most of the newer Android handsets with dual-core processors. MS went to great
pains to make sure that everything was optimized (and the UI is hardware
accelerated), which is why their hardware specifications only had support for
one SoC.

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dave1010uk
Whilst I really don't enjoy having to make websites compatible with IE (mainly
8 and below), I'm really glad they're sticking with IE as a browser. WebKit
seems to have a monopoly on phones and so many mobile sites (and tutorials)
don't think about other browsers.

I'd prefer more phones to ship with Gecko (Firefox), like my Nokia N900 but
anything non-WebKit adds to the diversity.

Edit: I don't really have anything against WebKit and understand that it makes
sense for mobiles as it's easily embedable but the fact that it has a monopoly
in the mobile space really gets to me!

~~~
Yzupnick
Monopolies are ok if they are created and kept through legitimate means. And I
think WebKit's monopoly on phones is legitimate and well deserved. If
Microsoft put together a comparable engine (and it is very possible they have,
I haven't tested it) then I would be happy that there is competition. But
diversity for diversity's sake is not a good reason to not use WebKit. In fact
it is very possible it would do more harm then good.

I am hoping* that Microsoft drops IE (the rendering engine not the browser),
and throws it's support behind the Gecko engine. With Microsoft supporting
Gecko, and Google and Apple supporting WebKit, we should see nice growth
browser's capabilities.

*I know this won't happen, but who says a man can't dream.

~~~
kprobst
The issue is not whether the monopoly is good or bad, but rather that its
existence creates what is essentially a monoculture. I'd rank that as more of
a concern, especially when we're talking about consumer devices.

~~~
ddagradi
A monoculture where developers aren't hindered by supporting a mediocre
browser with a breadth of missing features? Count me in.

~~~
daeken
You do realize that everyone said this in support of IE6 taking over the
market, right? Don't repeat the mistakes of the past.

~~~
taken11
IE6 is single vendor, single platform, it is closed source, so it does not at
all compare to webkit which is cross platform, open source and on top of that
multi vendor.

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cubeboy
[http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/05/microsoft-
unve...](http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/05/microsoft-unveils-
windows-phone-mango-at-least-in-part.ars)

A bit clearer information. I've had one now for a while and I do enjoy the
phone. It seems slightly limited but hopefully Mango will push it further, and
we'll see tighter integration with Windows 8 next year. Zune software looks
better than iTunes, but some of its configs are lacking. The current phone is
probably between the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4, but you don't have that feeling
of App Silos, however I use the Facebook integration less and less. I think I
will be leaning towards iPhone 5 instead though, as the apps are significantly
lacking in this phone (and app development API/SDK access is terrible).
Marketplace needs a big overhaul and move to something different than an App
Store mimic.

The worst feature is Bing Maps. Last night I typed in location X and it said
not available. So I typed in located X suburb Y and it still said it could not
find it. So I typed in location X suburb Y and state Z. It then relocates to
the centre of the state Z and points out that state Z is here.

~~~
GoldenMonkey
So we're waiting until October for limited backgrounding and an integrated
sms, facebook, and messenger experience? Yeah, I can see ppl holding off on
iOS and android upgrades for this;) Seriously, win7 is so unbaked it can't
even connect to a hidden wifi network. And with this fall release they are not
going to be at parity with last year's OS's. They have continued to loss
market share. They need to leapfrog the competition:(

~~~
cubeboy
I wouldn't say the wait is optional, more financially restricted(2 year
contract).

Is your Win7 experience a personal one though? I haven't yet required to
connect to a hidden wifi network. And now that cut-and-paste has arrived, I
have used it all of twice.

I'm always of the state of mind that the differences between Android, Iphone,
and Win7 aren't that big; I wouldn't say that win7 is unbaked any of those
phones, except when it comes to apps, and iPhone always wins.

I just hate being an Apple user. I want to have an iPhone with out the Apple
fanboy stigma

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juiceandjuice
Mango sounds really close to Meego, doesn't it.

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fleitz
MS's strategy in my opinion mostly hinges on 3 points:

1) Enterprise Integration

2) Skype integration

3) Senseless (A communications network that runs on whitespace)

If MS integrates well into the enterprise it becomes the natural phone for
enterprise developers (eg. the people who already know C#)

With Skype integration MS has an excellent platform to bring Skype to the
enterprise and start cutting desktop phone costs. I know we'd all bemoan a
'managed' skype solution but corporate america would love it, and they trust
the MS brand.

The third prong is the final nail in the coffin, if MS can deliver senseless
and make the carrier's irrelevant then some massive innovation can take place
in the space and MS will be the natural leader having both the spectrum and
the handset, the only real question is whether they make a boatload of money
by offering competitive pricing, or they use cut throat pricing to take the
whole market. Knowing MS's embrace, extend, extinguish strategy my money would
be on the latter, especially now that they are free from DOJ oversight.

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recoiledsnake
The deep links to the home tiles is pretty awesome... no need to fiddle with
an app to get the QR code out at the airport, for example.

The app integration from search is good too. It feels more like a Windows
Phone 8 or atleast 7.5 but they're still calling it 7.1

~~~
glhaynes
I agree, "8" would be better for their new mobile platform which desperately
needs hype. And it'd be appropriate, too!

Guess they've got the idea that users associate Windows for PCs 7 with Windows
Phone 7 which seems to me ought to only be a minor consideration.

~~~
bkhl
They probably want to align versions for Windows and Windows Phone. It looks
much nicer when you say Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8.

~~~
glhaynes
That's exactly it - I don't think the userbase cares. (Hell, I think to much
of their userbase, "Windows" is as much of a liability as it is an asset.)

That tying-stuff-together mentality is something that has served Microsoft
well while they've dominated, but is increasingly a weight around their necks
as areas become important that they can't extend domination into.

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shareme
I have a question for winCE geeks....

Why could this not have been winCE 6.5 several years back?

Seems MS wasted a lot of resources in buying Danger INC and than not listening
to them..

