
Motorists are using video cams to avoid disputed accident claims - svepuri
http://www.economist.com/news/technology-quarterly/21662646-dash-cams-small-video-cameras-film-road-ahead-are-being-used-motorists
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erobbins
I've been driving with a camera for over a year now. While I haven't needed it
for evidence of any sort, I do enjoy being able to create movies of enjoyable
drives and idiot drivers from time to time :)

I worry less about people in front of me doing idiotic things now. I know that
even if there's an accident, I'll have proof that I (hopefully) wasn't to
blame.

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mudil
What camera do you use? Any recommendations?

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bri3d
I like the G1W-C models for cheap and works, and the BlackVue DR* (I have a
DR650-GW) models for "really nice."

The BlackVue models have GPS, which is nice because it provides a speed
readout overlaid on the video. They also have WiFi (mostly useless IMO) and
run Linux, which means there are a few interesting hacks for them.

Two often-overlooked things to look for are:

* A capacitor for power-off storage (this is what keeps the camera on while the video is finalized and buffers flushed) instead of a LiPo, which is ill-suited to use in a hot, sunny area like the windshield.

* A discrete design without flashy chrome bits and blinky lights everywhere. The last think you want is someone breaking in and stealing your dashcam itself.

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dsfyu404ed
I'd avoid anything with a speed written on the screen. I can't see an
insurance company passing up the opportunity to screw you for going 5-over

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comrh
I'm pretty sure new cars are storing this information anyway.

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jessaustin
If you have Progressive Snapshot or a similar device, that's storing driving
data, but which cars do so by themselves?

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bri3d
Almost all modern cars have an Event Data Recorder as part of the SRS/Airbag
system which records snapshot data in the event of a deployment. Here are some
NHTSA standards for EDR storage:

[http://www.nhtsa.gov/DOT/NHTSA/Rulemaking/Rules/Associated%2...](http://www.nhtsa.gov/DOT/NHTSA/Rulemaking/Rules/Associated%20Files/EDRFinalRule_Aug2006.pdf)

Here's a list of vehicles supported by one consultant's forensics software:

[http://www.rimkus.com/uploads/pdfs/Event_Data_Recorder.pdf](http://www.rimkus.com/uploads/pdfs/Event_Data_Recorder.pdf)

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Cshelton
I don't see it being very long until all vehicles will be required to have a
'black-box' like aircraft.

Basically, in the event of an accident that is serious, both black boxes from
each vehicle can be submitted to ...somebody, and the the account of what
happened will be recorded in perfect detail. This would probably be able to
settle fault in a high percentage of cases.

Now for the case of people jumping out in front of vehicles like they do in
Russia...many vehicles will have cameras and lasers on board which will be
used both as safety features (automatic collision avoidance) and autonomous
driving. Every bit of data from these will also be recorded.

There will come a point in the future, (< 10 years), where most vehicles on
the road will have all of these features and disputed accident claims, fraud,
people suing the driver after they intentionally jump in front of a vehicle,
will all be the past. Data storage is cheap.

It will also change all statistics about insurance and driving. New models
will come about, including the insurance per mile, etc. And How much of the
time is spent under fully autonomous driving versus driving yourself. If you
are fully autonomous on most streets all the time, I can imagine a very low
insurance premium.

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Someone1234
This isn't as far as away as one might think.

2016 vehicles are already shipping either as options or as standard in some
trims, safety features which can detect obstructions and take automated action
(collision avoidance systems). Some are aimed only at detecting other vehicles
ahead, but some are specifically designed to detect and avoid
pedestrians/cyclists.

These systems utilise lasers and cameras. They aren't currently being used as
a black box but it is practically turn-key, no additional hardware would be
required except maybe an SD card and encoder to add a built in car-cam.

I agree that it may take ten years for this stuff to become standard in all
new cars, but in the next two or three years if someone wants this in their
new car they may very well be able to buy it.

Toyota are adding many of these features to their 2016 cars as a $500 option
(lane departure, collision avoidance, etc) on all trims as far as I know.

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cpr
Wow, we're becoming Russia!

Seriously, the Russians have been doing this for years, for more or less the
same reasons.

This all suggests that the rule of law is tenuous and getting more so in the
west.

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dalke
An alternative possibility is that the prices are getting cheap enough to be
cost effective for problems which have always existed; fraudulent claims, and
ambiguity when settling insurance claims.

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corysama
Reportedly, fraudulent claims are so common in Russia that there are many
video compilations of Russian pedestrians sprinting to ram themselves into
slow-driving cars.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSYT6V825gE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSYT6V825gE)

~~~
dalke
Or as this Economist article puts it, "Indeed, thousands of Russian videos of
horrific crashes, remarkable near misses and blatant attempts at insurance
fraud by drivers and pedestrians have become a staple on YouTube and other
websites."

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maresca
If I had the spare cash for 2 cams, I'd set them up on my motorcycle for
insurance purposes. I've heard too many stories about motorcyclists getting
hit and being blamed for the accidents. Or even worse, hit and runs. In the
age of cell phones, distracted driving is the norm. I almost get hit by
someone almost weekly. I really need some cameras soon :(

~~~
6stringmerc
Depending how long you ride for and how frequently, and if it's just for
backup purposes, you could potentially use the Spy Gear Panosphere with a
large MicroSD card.

[http://www.amazon.com/Spy-Gear-Panosphere-360-Degree-
Cam/dp/...](http://www.amazon.com/Spy-Gear-Panosphere-360-Degree-
Cam/dp/B00E4H1586)

I have two of them and while the native recording is very fish-eye, the
software that comes with the unit functions fine in focusing on a specific
point.

With a 32 GB card and full charge, I think I've gotten about 45 minutes of
recording. Might not be good for daily use, but for recreational outings it
might be usable with some customization (e.g. super glue a mount to it). I've
got one mounted on a swivel clip from a clip-on guitar tuner that broke and
it's been a neat tool.

Edit: Example footage of using the camera:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBpEGw3tTZ8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBpEGw3tTZ8)

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maresca
I'd imagine you'd want something good enough to be able to read license plates
in case of a hit and run.

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6stringmerc
You're correct that it's not a true HD unit. It doesn't do well in low light
either. I think if mounted in the right place though, it could potentially get
that info in one of the frames.

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6stringmerc
Honest question: Has anybody used telemetry from a personal wearable device in
the context of using it as proof of testimony, or something akin to that?

~~~
ptaipale
I've seen a cyclist's helmet cam video that was used by someone to catch a
careless car driver

\- the car did not yield in a crossing though it had a "yield" triangle

\- the cyclist had to break hard and went over the bar; the car drove away

\- cyclist made a crime report at police and gave video as evidence

\- car driver was fined for negligence

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mentat
negligence, wow, hit and run is a crime

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mayoff
"Went over the bar" doesn't mean a collision. It just means the cyclist went
over his handlebar.

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ptaipale
Right. There was no collision, the cyclist fell because he had to break hard
to avoid it, but the car driver did not even notice what happened. The license
plate number was visible in the video.

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sirtastic
Question for those of you with dash cams: What do you use and why?

Seems like a ton of options available. Some expensive and some not. Many
features to consider like storage limits, power source, integrated rear-view
cams, etc.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
I've got a G1W. I use it because I don't want to get screwed over by an idiot
in front of me. I also drive a POS in a nice place and get frequently bothered
by law enforcement (stopped for under 5-over...or really?) and if you bring an
umbrella it usually won't rain.

The most common close call I have in my truck is slowing down to stop in a
right or left turn lane and having someone cut me off to get in the lane while
I'm stopping. I've only ever seen close calls but if more than one or two
people do that when pulling up to one turn then it's gonna be hard for
everyone to have enough space to come to a stop without rear ending someone.

When driving my 90s compact (not my DD) in traffic I've had two very close
calls where people blast through one lane of dense traffic in order to pull
out onto the road and cut me off (I assume because they don't see me). Both
times I went jumping over curbs to avoid T-boning or rear-ending them.

~~~
sirtastic
How did you manage the wiring?

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dsfyu404ed
I took a 12v outlet from the junkyard, wired it in parallel with the stock one
(hot in run) and located it under the dash. The camera is powered by a USB
plug so I just used an adapter I had lying around. I drilled a hole through
the trim for the cord and used a grommet to keep it clean looking and prevent
the cord from wearing out.

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teraflop
See also:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Roadcam/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Roadcam/)

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ConfuciusSay
The Economist will be following up this exposé with another one next month
showing how people use seat belts in cars so they avoid injuries.

