
Stray Dogs Master Complex Moscow Subway System (2010) - ColinWright
http://abcnews.go.com/International/Technology/stray-dogs-master-complex-moscow-subway-system/story?id=10145833#.UX7lveJI47z
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ggchappell
This raises all kinds of cognitive questions. How do the dogs figure out how
to achieve their goals using the subways? Is it trial-and-error, resulting in
a step-by-step procedure that is followed by rote? Or do they form some kind
of a mental model of the subway system? In the former case, a dog would be
completely lost if a train fails to show, but in the latter, they might be
able to adapt.

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shmageggy
They form a mental model, called a cognitive map [1]. This is classic
cognitive science, discovered by Tolman's famous 1940's experiments on rats in
mazes [2]. The experimantal setup is simple yet brilliant. He allowed rats to
learn a path from a fixed starting location to a fixed endpoint with food. He
then changed their starting location, and the rats would immediately adapt
their path, showing that they had learned a mental map rather than simple
input/output responses.

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_map>

[2]
[http://www.muskingum.edu/~psych/psycweb/history/tolman.htm#T...](http://www.muskingum.edu/~psych/psycweb/history/tolman.htm#Theory)

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ggchappell
That's wonderfully informative stuff; thanks for posting.

BTW, I notice, in the WP article:

> In a review by Bennett[8] it is argued that there are no clear evidence for
> cognitive maps in non-human animals (i.e. cognitive map according to
> Tolman's definition). This argument is based on analyses of studies where it
> has been found that simpler explanations can account for experimental
> results.

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asperous
I've seen this a couple times. Honestly, it's not surprising so much as it's
cool.

Subways are fairly predictable and they have a natural rhythm to them, animals
can deal to deal with this sort of system.

We should be designing more user experiences that are so natural and
predictable, even dogs can take advantage.

~~~
eatitraw
I've never noticed dog riding a train in the moscow subway. I could have pay
not enough attention though.

~~~
dopamean
I love the thought of someone so focused on a book, phone, or conversation
with a friend that they didn't notice they were sitting opposite a dog on the
subway. It could be a comic in The New Yorker.

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Giszmo
All anecdotal. Wish they would gps-tag a dog and proof it's commuting between
a small set of stations regularly visiting the same stations. I mean, using
the train to just get away from where you are would already be cool, but
that's not the author's claim.

~~~
rjd
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casper_(cat)> Heres a similar ca story thats not
anecdotal.

I'm not at all surprised by the story growing up with working dogs on a rural
farm. Dogs would constantly surprise you with the understanding of the world
around them, often better than people you would work along side. One dog we
had knew the locations of buildings by name, and you could tell it the speed
to get there and wait for you (I think via the urgency in your voice). You
could say "met at the house" and it would turn and head straight back to home,
or "go to the kennels", it'd shoot off and wait for there etc.. (Collies BTW,
various other breeds we had struggled with simple things like avoiding running
head first into barns if you called their name out loud while they ran LOL).

Whats more fascinating to me is this Boing Boing piece on baboons raising pet
dogs <http://boingboing.net/2013/04/26/baboons-raise-pet-dogs.html>

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dobbsbob
Transit police here would run down the dog and taze it for not paying the
$2.75 fare, and being ambivalent to their authoritanT

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paganel
Related, I've seen more than a couple of Bucharest stray-dogs which actually
learned how to use the pedestrians' crosswalks, i.e. only crossing the street
when the light was green etc. There was even a promo made by our local traffic
police that was based on this:
[http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gCQ7qZ1pR...](http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gCQ7qZ1pR7oyn21Oin7FjDLQJcTg?docId=CNG.7a1f92947db32cf12283434ba615941a.a1)

Later Edit: And the dogs weren't actually mimicking the behavior of the people
waiting for the green light to turn on, because even when the light was red
there were a couple of people crossing the street but the dog wouldn't follow
them.

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rickdale
I have heard some amazing stories about dogs, this one is pretty good.

In my home town, a dog escaped and went 7.5 miles to the Tim Hortons where
everyday it was getting a TimBit. I was super impressed, before reading that I
didnt think any dog liked timbits...

My brothers doberman is really intelligent. She can figure out how to get any
piece of food no matter where you put it. She will move furniture to try and
climb up and can be absolutely relentless. She has escaped on the leash a
couple of times during walks and always ends up on the front porch no matter
where she escapes. Dogs are like humans, driven by motivation.

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quinndupont
This sure is a great story, but when is it ever going to die? I've seen this
story revolve around and around on the Internet so may times. By now, I'm
actually just more surprised that some people haven't read it.

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forgottenlogin
its a big internet

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manas2004
Now I feel quite stupid that I got _pretty_ lost and overwhelmed in the Moscow
Subway System when using it the first time. I had a printout of the map, don't
speak/read/understand the language and had no internet connection. I think the
dogs win this one.

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aaron695
When I first heard it ages ago I was dubious. The fact this is the only story
since then makes me pretty sure it is a load of BS.

Seriously "Author Eugene Linden, who has been writing about animal
intelligence for 40 years"

Pretty sure Eugene Linden has zero training in animal intelligence and is just
a journalist.

Why can't people just be happy with the fact non humans are just that, not
humans please stop trying to anthropomorphism them.

~~~
guard-of-terra
"training in animal intelligence" sounds impressive.

I believe this is the guy: <http://www.eugenelinden.com/index.html> He
actually wrote an awful lot of books.

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tomkarlo
This is 3 years old...

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mjolk
What's your point, that people should not read content that's over a month
old?

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tomkarlo
On a site with "News" in its name, you'd expect articles to be at least
somewhat timely. Otherwise, we could all just start posting random wikipedia
articles or other things we happen to have just discovered ourselves,
regardless of whether they already made the rounds months or years ago.

This was a great article - I read it when it came out - three years ago.
Unless there's an update, it's worth noting that this is a three-year-old
post.

~~~
mjolk
You read it when it came out, but keep in mind that not everyone is exposed to
the same content, due to any number of reasons. The site is designed to allow
its users to control the visibility of posts - if its interesting to others
and you've read it, skip over it.

~~~
tomkarlo
Yes, but the site has significant flaws when it comes to handling old content
regurgitated on other sites. Which is why it's relevant to point out how old a
post is - because the site itself doesn't.

In this case, this is essentially a repost of something PG put up three years
ago: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1071429>

It's simply not detected because it's in a different publication on a
different URL. If the dupe system was more "effective" it wouldn't even show
up, as it's exactly the kind of repost that is intended to catch.

