
Interns: Everything you need to know about a summer in the Bay Area in one place - AlexeyMK
http://internproject.io
======
tsunamifury
Man this housing advice is really pretentious -- only live in Mountain View or
SF with an internship salary? Good luck unless you have a trustfund.

Get a place in Berkeley or the nicer places in Oakland and you'll have a great
experience and can BART into the city in 15 minutes.

~~~
AlexeyMK
[author of said advice]

Sounds like you've got some experience with this - are there any particular
places you'd recommend? When I was an intern in SF (2011), I lived in Glen
Park, which was a half/hour bike ride/couple of BART stops away from work, and
I ended up paying slightly over $1,100. I had friends that went and found more
distant housing, but we didn't see them all that much/they didn't get nearly
as much out of the summer as we did, beyond their company.

A lot (most?) internship salaries include a $1,000 housing stipend, so it ends
up being not all that crazy; neither of my internships had more than 25% of
income go to housing.

Can you speak to your experience in particular? I haven't met a lot of people
who followed your strategy, but I'd love to incorporate the perspective of
somebody who did.

~~~
nextstep
The price of housing in SF has changed since 2011.

~~~
chunsaker
...Dramatically.

------
conradev
Very cool website!

As a high school junior going out to the Bay Area this summer to work, I agree
with a lot of the advice for high schoolers. From my own experiences, I would
add these little bits:

\- Completely disregard age requirements when applying. If a company denies
you because of your age, then just apply to another company.

\- Avoid the conventional application process whenever possible. If the
company has a job posting anywhere, always take the approach of reaching out
to the employee who wrote it, instead of going through the generic application
page. You are _not_ a conventional applicant, and this approach allows you to
stand out.

\- Avoid the conventional interview process whenever possible. Not many high
schoolers are exposed to courses on algorithms in a conventional class
setting, which tough interview challenges are based upon. Find a company that
hires in a more progressive fashion where they instead hand you a coding
challenge or ask you to explain certain concepts. These interviews are the key
to getting you hired, because they allow you to demonstrate your programming
ability, knowledge and communication skills all in one. Focus on knocking
these interviews out of the park, and removing any doubt from their minds.

\- Do not mention your age anywhere highly visible. Not on your Github, not on
your Twitter and especially not on your resume. Even though I wish it weren't
the case, age can be an immediate turn off to possible employers. Once you
have a communication channel open, however, be sure to mention your age.

\- Focus on marketing yourself. Don't only churn out side projects, but also
write about them, demonstrate them at tech meetups, submit them to central
repositories, etc. Maintain a blog, writing about the things you work on.
Maintain public profiles on social networking sites, listing yourself as a
freelance developer. This comes in handy when employers are questioning your
legitimacy from the get go. From doing this, I actually attracted employers to
myself and got a few job offers from prominent companies. Even though I had to
deny them all, I asked the recruiters if they had summer positions available,
many of which did. If this ever happens to you, make sure to ask the recruiter
how they found you.

------
lucb1e
It's incredible to see how different the market is in the US than in the
Netherlands - and I think we're in line with most other European countries.

Interning at big guys like Microsoft or Google is almost entirely unheard of.
School never even told about the possibility of being asked technical
questions during an interview; interviews are supposed to be a 15 minute
conversation about ourselves and about the company. We're always assumed to
get an interview. "Startups may hire only one or two interns" is normal,
companies hiring more than that are extremely rare, and if they do it's
usually because they're too poor to pay real employees. In fact, 3/4 companies
I've been with hired interns because they're (very) cheap.

So that means no pay. Not that I'm looking for wages, I'm looking to learn
something, but still. It turns out the better companies also pay more (or at
all), but I only learned that very recently. I never even knew it was
customary to get a monetary compensation for your work until a year ago. It
became most obvious when I was (almost solely) working on code for mission-
critical systems without payment...

------
michael_miller
This is a great resource, I wish I had this when I was interning. A couple
tips from someone who's done this a bit (3 times, 2 years full/part time
intern at Apple, 1 summer at FB):

\- Yeah, you get paid a large sum of money, but it really doesn't matter. The
$7k/month salary may sound like a ton as a college student, but it isn't. It
will pale in terms of your life earnings. Focus on trying out new areas /
technologies that you think you might be interested in, but aren't sure. An
internship is a chance to try something new out. If you don't like it, you
just don't accept their return offer, there's no expectation that you'll
continue to work at the company beyond 3 months.

\- Do NOT intern at the same place more than once. They will try to lure you
back by giving you a deadline of 2 weeks after your internship ends. This is
BS. If they were willing to give you a return offer, they will almost
certainly wait for you to get your other offers back. Competition is too stiff
for them not to do this. Interning at the same place twice yields diminishing
returns: you'll be working with the same tech, not meeting new people and
learning new tricks. Plus, you won't get to experience more company cultures,
finding out where you fit.

\- Don't even consider interning part time during the school year. The pay
will seem appealing, but it will take away from your college experience. You
only go to college once, you should enjoy it to its fullest, you have your
whole life to work. Again, money is insignificant compared to your life
earnings.

\- Interning in the Valley is a rite of passage, but after you've done one
internship there, consider other places. NYC is great, I live there and highly
recommend it (shameless plug, you can read about why at my blog post: [1]).
Boston is great too, lots of biotech startups. Overseas is also a good choice,
since you'll get the experience of living in another culture, in addition to
doing cool work.

I'll end with another shameless plug. I work for Palantir, a really great
company that's growing extremely rapidly and working on some pretty cool
projects across a variety of spaces: government, healthcare, local law
enforcement, finance to name a few. We've also done some kickass philanthropy
efforts, such as our work with Hurricane Sandy: [2]. I've only worked at
Palantir full-time, but several of my friends have interned here, and said
it's the best place they've interned. If you're interested in interviewing
with us (for either fulltime or internship), please email me at
<firstname>.g.<lastname> [at] gmail.

[1] [http://michael-g-miller.tumblr.com/post/20168723440/why-i-
ch...](http://michael-g-miller.tumblr.com/post/20168723440/why-i-chose-new-
york)

[2] <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPqtQ9DbeQY>

~~~
eli_gottlieb
Where the hell do interns get paid $7,000/month salaries?

~~~
michael_miller
$7k is actually on the low end nowadays :). I was as surprised as you, but
talking to my friends, salaries seem to have shot up this past year. Dropbox,
Google, FB, all pay over $7k, some well over that amount.

~~~
nickbarnwell
Are you including corp housing/stipend in that amount?

~~~
michael_miller
I believe (but am not 100%) that the companies listed pay at least $7k not
including housing stipend. I could be wrong, so feel free to correct me.

~~~
acchow
$7k not-including-housing is only normal if you're a returning intern.
Otherwise, it's for the top tier. Last summer, Google was $6667/month for
undergrad SWE interns not including housing stipend. The stipend should be a
one-time $3500 (last summer, many interns could choose corporate housing
instead of the $3500 stipend).

------
hack_edu
Most the rents quoted are several hundred lower than reality, though the
bedroom in a shared place price is pretty close. It also fails to underline
the competition for cheap, or _any_ , housing. Landing a spot within the first
weeks, or even month, will be very hard for anyone new to the town.

If you want an apartment in this city you _must_ bid several hundred over the
listed price. It is also extremely common to offer 3-6 month's rent down and
be ready to cut that check at the open house.

~~~
thrownaway2424
I think it's pretty easy to get an apartment. Show up at the open house, don't
dress like a slob (even if you always dress like a slob, just don't), and
carry enough cash to pay off the deposit and the first month. Since it's an
internship, just bring enough cash to pay for the entire lease. If you don't
have cash you'll need bank statements (local banks, so open your accounts
several months in advance), paychecks (pain in the ass, right? you might have
to couch-surf for the first few weeks), letters of employment, and a
reference. But even with all that you'll have trouble convincing anyone to
rent to you. Cash is better.

------
ultimoo
If you find an internship in one of the big names in South Bay, it is also a
great idea to live in Sunnyvale or Downtown San Jose. The rates are quite
affordable thanks to the large student population of SJSU.

That being said, commuting in the South Bay is a little painful without a car.
But riding the VTA is extremely affordable and will get you to your
destination, albeit a little slowly.

~~~
lightup88
It should also be mentioned that downtown San Jose is far from bereft of
interesting things. Museums, restaurants, and other college students abound.

------
nickbarnwell
Just a correction here: [http://internproject.io/finding-an-internship/how-to-
land-an...](http://internproject.io/finding-an-internship/how-to-land-an-
internship-at-a-top-tier/)

MS actually has the Explore Microsoft internship for underclassmen. [1]

I'd also suggest adding Yegge's Blogpost on "Get That Job at Google" to
required interview reading [2]. It's an excellent resource for applying to any
company that highly weights core CS topics in their interviews, regardless of
whether you're applying for an internship or full-time employ.

\---

[1]: [http://careers.microsoft.com/careers/en/us/internships-
explo...](http://careers.microsoft.com/careers/en/us/internships-explore-
microsoft.aspx)

[2]: [http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/03/get-that-job-at-
goog...](http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/03/get-that-job-at-google.html)

~~~
gailees
Cool stuff...loved those two posts!

------
ruswick
This is fairly tangential, but do startups and/or medium-sized companies place
emphasis on education when selecting interns? As a student in high school, I
see effectively no advantage to informing a potential employer of the fact
that I attend a certain school. At best, it's inconsequential and yields no
advantage to me, as high schools generally lack the sort of prestige that
certain universities possess; and, at worst, it will deter possible employers
who would be unwilling to permit someone like me to work for them.

Is education significant among startups, and how can I maximize the allure of
my resume vis-a-vis my education (or lack thereof)?

------
nathanfp
Congrats Tess, Alexey, Alex, and Owen on building such a fantastic resource. I
do think that there is significant information asymmetry in this process for
most students, especially those from the east coast who are less aware of
startup culture and how to break into it, so having all this bay area content
in a single location is a massive help!

A few additional points in regards to the comments below:

1\. For those asking about international opportunities it may be good to check
out this Quora post on how to get a visa and which startups hire international
students: [http://www.quora.com/Which-startups-are-willing-to-
sponsor-a...](http://www.quora.com/Which-startups-are-willing-to-sponsor-
a-J1-visa-for-an-internship)

2\. For those discussing locations I generally agree with the authors points
that SF, MV, and PA are best given proximity to events. That said we and many
of the companies we work with, have had success with interns living in
Berkeley. It is an easy BART stop, has lots of college housing which usually
means 4-5 in a house and a lower cost, and while some crime does exist, it is
avoidable with common sense and precaution. Since most events are during happy
hour times, living in Berkeley definitely does not preclude you from
participating in a lot of good events.

3\. Additional posts I (and I know many interns we have talked to in the Bay)
would love to see include: -How to develop a mentor within a startup? -How to
get the attention of startup founders on social media? -The importance of an
online portfolio.

4\. A couple additional tips I would share with students is that you should
recognize that companies and founders are always time-crunched, but always
interested in quality talent. Following-up with applications multiple times
(and on multiple channels like Facebook or Quora) is always a good idea as
long as you are non-spammy and enthusiastic. Same is true during an
internship, embrace the hectic life-style, stay positive, over-deliver and
remember to stay in touch with people (possibly with thank you cards) after
the internship ends. Startups come and go so a full-time job is never
guaranteed but your network can become even more important. Here are a few
more posts along these lines:
[http://www.internmatch.com/blog/category/mastering-summer-
in...](http://www.internmatch.com/blog/category/mastering-summer-internships)

5\. Startups are a lot of work but also a lot of fun. Always keep an open mind
about your internship, make friends with not just those in your company but
students and startup people you meet outside of it and have a great time!

Thanks internproject.io team for such an in-depth knowledge center for
interns. Excited to read and learn more about the events and resources you
have coming up

~~~
mapgrep
Adding to your advice to look in Berkeley, that's especially wise as housing
prices drop a lot during the summer since most UC Berkeley students (who rent
a huge percentage of the apartments) are away on internships or breaks of
their own. In addition to shared houses as you mention, there tend to be lots
of summer sublets at cut rates. Assuming you're reasonably close to BART it's
very convenient to SF, not at all convenient to South Bay/core Silicon Valley.

I'd be curious if Palo Alto similarly gets cheaper during the summer.

------
AustinGibbons
Missing my personal piece of advice: Interested in startups / smaller
companies? Easiest thing to do is email / interview with one or two VC firms.
I know both a16z and greylock do this, I'm sure others do as well.

------
up_and_up
Seems like you have some dups in your topic categories:

"Finding an Internship", "Finding an Internship" "Choosing an Internship",
"Choosing an Internship"

Is that intentional? Kinda confused me at first.

~~~
aiur
Yes it is intentional. Sorry for the confusion, we're working on organizing
the articles better.

------
iansinke
How many companies offer internships longer than a summer? I have a co-op
position for this summer but after my 3rd year I'm hoping to get something
longer, a 12 or 16 month position.

Also -- are many American companies friendly towards Canadians who happen to
have dual citizenship? To be honest ideally I'd work in Waterloo or Toronto
(both are driving distance, ish, from my home) but I'd love to spend time in
NYC or the Bay Area too.

------
rachelbythebay
Avoid North San Jose? Wha? East San Jose, maybe. North San Jose is like two
trailer parks and a bunch of shiny new complexes. Avoid the trailer parks if
that's not your thing and you're fine.

I'm talking about anything north of Montague between the Guadalupe and Coyote
Creek, and south of 237. North of 237 I'd call Alviso, and that's a whole
different thing.

------
pshc
Some feedback about the page design: When I first looked at the article, I
breezed right past those six section links. They look way too much like
generic fat-footer site nav or post-article outbound links or something, my
brain must have filtered them out. I found myself scrolling down to the ABOUT
section immediately and becoming confused.

------
pnmahoney
"Palo Alto . . . is very clearly a college town".

I think it's worth noting that Palo Alto is not very much of a college town at
all.

------
philip1209
Any tips for a new hire in the Bay area? (I just accepted a full-time job in
SOMA starting in late May).

Specifically - any tips on securing an apartment ahead of time, possibly
remotely? I have a week in the corporate apartment, but if I could line
something up beforehand that would be preferred.

~~~
striglia
When I started working in SF (moving from the Los Angeles area) I had great
luck renting a temporary place and apartment hunting after work hours. I used
AirBnB but you would be fine with any approach...the point is that apartment
hunting is an infinitely better experience in person and you can avoid all the
craigslist horror stories involved with remote renting.

------
whitewhim
As a fellow Canadian Student it would be great if you could write a section on
how to obtain a Visa to work for the summer in the Bay Area. Last summer I was
offered an internship at a Y Combinator startup in the Palo Alto but had to
turn it down due to Visa reasons.

~~~
khuey
Startups typically aren't thrilled to deal with visas. Most mid-size or larger
companies will sponsor students for J-1s (or whatever the equivalent for
Canadians is).

------
AlexeyMK
Drop us an email if there's any content you'd like to see added to the site,
happy to oblige.

~~~
ultimoo
I really like this site. As someone who will be interning in the Bay Area this
summer, I will find it very useful if you guys could throw in a forum where
folks could connect and find roommates and make friends with fellow hackers.

~~~
nickbarnwell
The 2013 Bay Area Summer Intern Group [1] on Facebook is what you're looking
for.

[1]:
[https://www.facebook.com/groups/210814239033807/?bookmark_t=...](https://www.facebook.com/groups/210814239033807/?bookmark_t=group)

------
gailees
Do you actually think the problem here is informational asymmetry? Seems to be
a supply/demand problem more than anything. Not enough housing. Not enough
qualified summer interns. I don't see how a few blog posts will help anyone...

~~~
pwingo
I disagree- I think that there are a lot of interns out there who don't have
the right information in order to optimize their search for internships.

I learned computer science a lot later than many of my peers, I stumbled
around a lot in the startup world before being able to intern at one of the
more well-known companies in the valley- this was only after I had learned
many lessons and been rejected or not even contacted by many companies because
I didn't know how to present myself in a format that made recruiters want to
contact me.

Any resource that helps potential interns to learn more about recruiting in
the valley- from finding an internship to choosing an internship- is a good
one.

~~~
gailees
but there's just so much bloat out there that just wastes their time when they
actually could be actually learning how to better present themselves.

------
SkyMarshal
> _Consider about an hour of your day eaten up by the commute, every day._

In my experience, it's about an hour _one-way_ , so two hours daily. Assuming
SF-PA-SF, express Caltrain, ~10m walk on each end.

------
duked
7k for an internship ? I'm a bit confused is this the take home amount or pre-
tax ? Because if it's after tax that's around 120k$/year. Can someone, clarify
that ?

~~~
cbhl
Top students will easily command the equivalent of $120k/year in the bay, but
many will make much less than this. You may wish to choose an offer that pays
way less than this if the experience is more interesting, though.

------
ryguytilidie
Oakland resident here. Why shouldn't they live in Oakland? Don't get that at
all. I VASTLY prefer it to MTV, Palo Alto, San Jose, SF, etc.

~~~
cbhl
A lot of interns are from out of town / out of the country and will have
difficulty navigating the commute from Oakland to {SF, Mountain View, Menlo
Park} if they're working from a larger organization.

Plus, hanging out on weekends is easier when you're around other (out-of-town)
interns, and they will likely be living in {MTV, PA, MP, SJ, SF}.

------
kevinr
No mention of the "oh, you're a contractor, so we don't have to withhold
taxes" scam? Then the article is seriously incomplete.

~~~
cbhl
This falls under "you need an accountant and a lawyer", and probably would be
out of scope for a website like this.

If you've had a bad experience, you could write a blog post about it and send
it to the maintainers -- maybe they'll include it as a guest post.

------
stephenlee
Your guys are so lucky to have so good place to intern, and paid so much
salary. As a foreigner, I'm enviable yours.^-^.

------
jfmercer
This is excellent. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

------
dupa99
"Expect +$2k/month for every greek letter in their name" huh?

------
dudurocha
Do you have information for students from another countries?

~~~
cbhl
Part of the team is Canadian, but visa issues are complex. Once you land an
offer with a megacorp, their lawyers should try to help you land the
appropriate visas. Avoid smaller organizations if you're international.

