
Launch HN: Py (YC S17) – Learn to Code on the Go - derektlo
Hey HN! I’m Derek of Py (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.downloadpy.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.downloadpy.com</a>). Py is an education app for iOS and Android that teaches topics like app development, building websites and data science. We&#x27;re in the current YC batch.<p>My co-founder Will and I have been friends since high school. We&#x27;ve been frustrated for a long time with the way existing learning platforms teach coding. They tend to be one-size-fits-all solutions that don&#x27;t make learning to code a fun experience. Also, most platforms don&#x27;t personalize content based on a user&#x27;s prior skill level or behavior within the product.<p>We think personalizing content is key. We customize the content that users see and make it game-like to encourage people to spend more time on concepts they’re struggling with.<p>We also believe that interactivity is super important. Rather than passively watching a video, we want users to engage with the content. I’ve found from personal experience that I’ll watch an EdX video thinking I understand what they’re saying, only to discover later that I’m struggling on a quiz about the exact same concepts I thought I had learned.<p>When we first launched Py on the App Store about one year ago, it was named Pythonic because it only taught Python. Over the summer, we expanded to teach more programming languages and shortened the name to Py. While finishing up our last year of college we iterated on the product, developing more interaction types to make learning more engaging, and building more courses.<p>Excited to discuss mobile edtech and teaching people how to code! Also, we&#x27;re quite curious to hear about your preferred way of learning...
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soneca
Congrats! Great ratings at App Store, seems promising. Although, you are not
exactly on Android already, are you?

 _We also believe that interactivity is super important_

I agree with this premisse and I can't learn through videos. But I am glad
with codecademy/freeCodeCamp style (lesson on the left, browse coding on the
right). And after the initial steps, following tutorials online to build my
own things on a real dev environment.

But I am willing to try another approach that favors interactivity.

 _We think personalizing content is key_

I also agree in theory, but never saw it in practice. I couldn't understand
from your landing page how Py solves this either. Would you care to further
explain how the content is personalized and what exactly is this game-like?

If you think it's relevant, some context: I am 37 years old, on a career
change from marketing to software development. I am learning web development
from scratch, studying fulltime since last November. Basically 2 months to
complete the first certificate of freeCodeCamp, then, building my own projects
following tutorials and documentation. I start next Monday at my first dev job
as front end developer. I mostly interested in learning Javascript, maybe dig
deeper in CSS and general CS concepts.

~~~
derektlo
Thanks for the comment! So we just launched our Android version today:
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.py](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.py)
(it's still in alpha and there are a number of issues we've noticed that
working around the clock to resolve ASAP)

RE personalization: At the end of each chapter, users answer quizzes. We
motivate people to review wrong answers through a star system: a user will
earn 3 stars if they answer 100% of the assessments correct, otherwise, they
have can review to earn more. This allows us to customize the content that
users see while also gamifying the experience to incentive people to spend
more time on concepts they’re struggling with.

~~~
soneca
You're right about keeping Android version out of landing page. Downloaded it
now and a few things dont work:

\- in screens with "run" I can't edit the code or see the output after hitting
"run". I believe I was supposed to do both.

\- one screen in the middle of the JS intro course is blank

\- at the courses I went through, the last screen's "continue" is faded out,
unclickable and I can't conclude the course.

In a week or so I will try again, I still believe I will enjoy it. Good luck!

~~~
derektlo
Thank you for this - we're literally typing Java code right now to solve
these. Very much appreciate the feedback and thanks for offering to try us
again in a week :)

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Dangeranger
Have you considered employing a cognitive dissonance learning model similar to
the techniques that Derek Muller wrote about in his thesis 'Designing
Effective Multimedia for Physics Education'? [0]

Lorena Barba of George Washington University also discusses techniques related
to effectively teaching complex topics through exercise rather than passive
learning that you may find interesting. [1]

[0]
[http://sydney.edu.au/science/physics/pdfs/research/super/PhD...](http://sydney.edu.au/science/physics/pdfs/research/super/PhD\(Muller\).pdf)

[1] [https://www.class-central.com/report/why-my-mooc-is-not-
buil...](https://www.class-central.com/report/why-my-mooc-is-not-built-on-
video/)

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vlokshin
Congrats and love what you're doing.

Do you mind if we start sharing this with the customer side at
[http://turtle.ai/](http://turtle.ai/)? We have many non-tech customers and we
teach them best practices for product management and working with developers
-- a lot of your course content would be really useful for them as well.

> We think personalizing content is key. We customize the content that users
> see and make it game-like to encourage people to spend more time on concepts
> they’re struggling with.

Would it ever be possible for organizations to pre-define some content /
content suggestions for their users? For example, we would want non-tech
customers to get certain content and more technical customers to get different
content. For freelancers, we'd want the content to be more product management
/ project management / communications focused.

Let me know if you have any plans to partner with companies who want to
outsource some of the education of their customers. We think education is
critical to our success or the success of any companies in our space
(freelancer marketplace). If we can outsource the education component to a
trusted partner, we would love to (and would pay for custom content or to
supply our own content).

~~~
tennien
Anyone is always allowed to use our app! We've found it very effective in
leveling up engineering skills as well as taking people from 0 to coder.

hmu at contact@py-app.com

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tijs
Just finished the swift course and it leaves me wanting more. I mostly like
that I can do a few excercises while waiting for the train to arrive and then
just pick it up the next day for a few minutes. Feels a bit like duolingo for
learning. Unnoticed some humanities subjects in the store screenshots? Would
be cool to do the same treatment for history or more high level concepts in
programming like algorithms. Kudos so far!

~~~
tennien
Great you love it! We're building more Swift content right now! Commutes are a
perfect use case.

Right now we're focusing on our best programming courses. We're about to
release courses like Data Science and Machine Learning. Apologies about the
screenshot: it's out of date and Apple won't let us update it without
submitting a new version.

~~~
tijs
Ugh typos, but you got my point :) Are you planning to move beyond programming
too (duolingo for learning -anything-) or is that just wishful thinking on my
part?

~~~
tennien
Right now we're planning on doing one thing really well before we do more. But
there's no reason this model doesn't work for other subjects.

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dabber
Hey! I got a chance to play around with the app a bit and thought I'd leave my
first impressions here (for whatever it's worth.)

\- I love the fact that I'm not forced to make an account but given the
option; though not sure what benefits that offers. Picking up in the same spot
across devices I guess.

\- didn't realize i could skip modules at first, once I did I liked it a lot
more.

\- I've only played with the JS stuff so far. It's pretty basic for me right
now but I'd imagine (and hope) you'll be adding some heavier stuff.

\- Beautiful UI.

\- The correct/wrong notifications are very similar to other apps like this
(not a criticism), is there a common library for that? I never really thought
about it.

\- I personally would like and make use of a "give us feedback" item.

\- I'd like to be able to take some short tests or flash cards. Maybe for
built in methods, design patterns, "what would this evaluate to", etc..

\- No weird permissions!!

I'll keep my eye on this. Good luck with it!

~~~
tennien
We're glad you like us!

\- Definitely wanted to keep this option; no reason to force it on everyone.

\- We let you learn at the right level.

\- Believe it or not, we cover the core language. So once you finish
JavaScript, you'll know enough to build a project or pass an interview at a
top tech company.

\- Completely custom; the design idiom is a common one.

\- We're about to add this!

\- If you want this, check out our coding interviews course.

\- You're welcome :)

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Allvitende
Just signed up. I really love this idea. Keep up the great work! UX is very
good. Feels like Duolingo for programming languages.

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77ko
Reminded me of SoloLearn, a similar app.

Can't really comment in the Android app as it crashes a couple of minutes into
the app.

I'm doing a course at Udacity and they recommend SoloLearn to brush up on
basics, including python and HTML etc etc. Partnering with institutions seems
to be a good idea.

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ebb-tide
I was skeptical.. but I really like it! The UI looks very pleasant, and
there's an addictive rhythm that keeps you going. As a programmer the beginner
courses get tedious for me, I dont need the concept of conditionals explained
to me again, but if you had an expert level intro to a language I didnt know-
I would definitely want to learn the syntax and idiosyncracies of a new
language this way. It feels really painless to learn things in this style.

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Keren_Pajaro_C
I'm from Colombia and I'm interested in the app. I tried to download py on my
android and it seems the app is not avaliable. Why?

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thebiglebrewski
Hey, are you worried about being regulated as a school at all in the state
you're operating in?

~~~
derektlo
Nope, we aren't regulated as a school so we're not worried about this!

~~~
thebiglebrewski
But you do provide courses to people for money, right?

~~~
derektlo
Currently, all of our courses are actually free! We will be releasing a new
version of Py on iOS within the next day or two that will contain a premium
subscription that unlocks access to new premium content we're rolling out.

~~~
thebiglebrewski
Sooo....sounds like you're about to become a school that takes money? Are you
worried about regulation now?

~~~
glennon
@thebiglebrewski -- do you have a link or reference to the regulations of
concern? I did a quick web search and did not find anything relevant.

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kevinmannix
What are your competitors, and how do you differ? I find small screens like
iOS and Android (assuming most users use a mobile phone-like device) are hard
to do any significant work on - how does this influence your instruction flow
& corresponding UX?

~~~
tennien
Few of our competitors are mobile focused. Most people don't have hours to sit
in front of a computer, but waste a lot of time commuting, standing in line,
etc. Py is designed to utilize this time.

Great question about UX. It's hard to type on a phone, so we use a customized
keyboard and group things into reusable elements.

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inputcoffee
I am very curious how you teach coding on a mobile platform. I mean there is
so much typing in coding, and then you need to track a bunch of variables, see
the output, and see the code, so that is a lot of screen real estate you need.

~~~
tennien
Great question! The code is kept short, the output appears below the code, and
we deal with typing by using a customized keyboard and letting you type in
whole function names with a single tap. It's hard to explain without showing
you the app :) Check it out.

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PacifyFish
I've done a few of your lessons and I feel they only scratch the surface.

The format works well for learning high-level concepts, but anyone planning to
"go from 0 to coder" with this app is fooling themselves.

~~~
tennien
You'd be surprised! The coding interview questions are real-world questions
used at real tech companies. Once you can answer them right, you can get a
job.

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TheRealmccoy
hello Derek and Will, Currently I am on an experiment to learn programming
only via a smartphone and I have started with 6.00.1x of EdX. I am using
Termux and GNUROOTDEBIAN app on my phone. If you would be interested, along
side I could work with Py and may be give you a comparison of some sort on my
experience of different module and topic on both. Prior I worked for 7 months
as an EIR with an edtech Startup and also have been a founder for 52 months.

Please do let me know, my email is in my profile.

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sethbannon
Fantastic app. Really nicely designed. Question on the personalized learning:
what factors go into determining when and what content to show me to optimize
my learning?

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y4mi
You should really mention that your android version doesnt exist yet. There is
not even an ETA available, just an email signup for 'updates'.

~~~
tennien
We actually do have an android version in alpha:
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.py](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.py)

~~~
DrrT
Where did it go? I'm getting "Item not found."

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vivek_rathore
Great. I wish you all the best. Will go through the app.and will share my
experience.

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staticautomatic
Installed on Android 7. Sorta kinda worked once. Crashed. Cannot restart after
force stop.

~~~
tennien
I'm literally typing fixes right now. We'll get this out ASAP.

~~~
staticautomatic
I applaud you for working around the clock on it, but honestly, the android
app isn't even alpha. It just doesn't work. I think you jumped the gun on
listing it in the Play store.

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cmrhode
Cool on Android. Look forward to using this.

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sogen
"See all courses" is blank (iOS)

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chikipowpow
Great app! I like where it is going!

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zitterbewegung
I really don't like the name. Since you expanded on your languages that you
are going to teach it doesn't really make sense to use Py since nearly every
Python project uses the phrase to say its in Python. Also, you are going to
have people that are looking for PyPy and finding your App and getting
confused.

~~~
derektlo
Actually, we've found the name Py doesn't confuse users. Most associate it
with the number Pi, giving it an academic feel.

~~~
Hoshea
For what it's worth, I assumed this would be an app focused on teaching
Python.

~~~
tennien
Keep in mind many of our users don't even know python. We answer about 200+
questions every day in our in-app chat, and we've yet to hear someone get
confused.

