

Why Hasn’t Safari Skyrocketed Like Chrome Has? - hshah
http://techcrunch.com/2011/12/24/safari-and-chrome/

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jws
Safari on Windows was never intended to garner market share. It was created so
that web site authors that couldn't be bothered to have a Mac could checkout
how their site works on Safari. It has succeeded wildly.

Remember, these were darker days. Webkit was the strange thing on the
internet. There was no Chrome. There was Konqueror, but the webkits had
diverged. You made your site work on IE and Firefox in your preferred order,
then after drying your tears with the shredded remains of your schedule gave
two minute's thought to making it not obviously be complete rubbish on Safari
and maybe Opera.

So of course it sucks on windows.

• It feels like a Mac but in a Windows world which is like speaking English
with an outrageously French accent.

• It operates through layers of compatibility designed to identically preserve
the Mac behavior above perform well.

• When you come down to it, it is the _away team_. If the user wanted a Mac
experience, they'd have a Mac.

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MBCook
I've been using Safari on every Mac I use since I switched back to the
platform in '04 or so. It's a nice browser, has all the features I want, and
it's quite fast. I've played with Chrome a bit, and it may be faster, but
Safari is fast enough.

But that's on a Mac.

At my last job I had a Windows box. I installed Safari as soon as it was
released on Windows for testing purposes. I wouldn't have minded switching,
but there was one cold fact in the way: Safari was a pig.

I haven't used it on Windows in about a year, so it may be better, but at the
time it took a long time to start Safari up. Later releases were better, but
it still would feel slow launching and opening tabs. All and all, I stayed
with FireFox.

I recommend Safari as a good browser for anyone who uses OS X. When people I
know have bought Macs and asked if they need to download FF or Chrome, I tell
them there is no need. Give Safari a try. Only one or two hasn't stuck with
it, it fits all their needs.

On Windows I would tell them FF or Chome. Based on my experience there was no
reason to recommend Safari.

I think it's too late. Even if Apple made Safari an amazing browser on Windows
it's a very crowded market. FF is huge, Chrome is big and gaining. IE 8/9 are
pretty nice browsers. That's 3 good choices. I have a hard time seeing Apple
get any meaningful Windows marketshare.

Frankly, I think Safari is only on Windows to allow developers to test their
sites to work better on iOS without having the devices or Macs. Any promotion
to consumers is very half-hearted.

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tseabrooks
Could just be me; But I've never found any "Apple" software that wasn't
miserable to use on windows. iTunes, QuickTime, Safari... I assume laziness or
the feeling that it just isn't necessary on the part of Apple; But who knows.

As for why I use Chrome (Even on my Macs); It's just more pleasant to use.
It's the sort of thing that's hard to put a finger on, though it does run
google web apps way better than the competition which is a huge reason for me
also.

~~~
benihana
It's not just you. I hated Apple for the first half of last decade because
until about 2005, I was only exposed to Apple software for Windows, which is
abysmal. Using Apple software on a Mac blew my mind.

Even though Chrome and Safari share a foundation, I just find Chrome more
usable. Things like keyboard commands to open the last closed tab, how it
waits to resize tabs until after you move your mouse away form the tab bar,
and the animated sorting of tabs just to name a couple. Chrome feels faster
too; hard to quantify, but apparently quite important to user perception.

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chc
This article arrives at the answer and keeps walking. It points out that most
people who have used it think Safari on Windows sucks, but somehow refutes
that with the fact that it's only a little slower than Firefox and it's
version 5.1. What?

~~~
etherael
MG Siegler. (not a snark, check out his previous articles)

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breckinloggins
I use Chrome on all platforms for which it's available for three reasons:

1\. It's fast

2\. It updates automatically

3\. It has a single location/search bar

For me, that's it. Really.

~~~
jerrya
I would add it seems to work almost intuitively, but I find Safari works
against me (on Windows).

And it may just be a coincidence, but it's similar to QuickTime.

Yay! There's a new trailer for the Alien prequel out, and it's ... hosted at
Apple. That means I'll see it in a window that doesn't full screen, whose
controls don't work right, and it probably won't even download regardless of
how often I click it. Thank the FSM, someone has posted a link to the trailer
on YouTube.

~~~
sjs
Chrome ruined Safari for me. When I fire up Safari more often than not I end
up doing this: <http://i.imgur.com/nDk2R.png>

~~~
quiesce
<http://hackemist.com/SafariOmnibar/>

~~~
dazbradbury
I haven't used this software, but what kind of website that isn't meant to be
spam, on loading, changes the web address and breaks my ability to go "back"
completely.

Really annoying.

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jdpage
Nitpick - the Webkit layout engine wasn't born at Apple. It's derived from
KHTML, which is part of the Konqueror and KDE projects.

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azakai
The answers are pretty obvious.

1\. Chrome is marketed all over the web (and in real life) and bundled through
shareware. Google is spending a tremendous amount of money to market Chrome.
Apple is not doing that with Safari.

2\. Safari is the default in OS X, but OS X is still small compared to
Windows.

3\. Safari on Windows is not as fast as Safari on OS X, presumably because
Apple cares more about one than the other, whereas Chrome is fast on both
platforms. The author seems to assume that since they are both WebKit
browsers, that means they are the same, but that isn't true by any measure:
First, Google doesn't use the WebKit multiprocess code or the WebKit JS
engine, it has its own, and both of those components are very important for
speed; and second, even aside from those there are many factors that go into
making a browser fast, and just using WebKit (or Gecko or Trident or whatever)
doesn't fix them automatically.

The real question is how many people use Safari on OS X. That's where it is
optimized and bundled. I am guessing the percentage is pretty high, but if it
is low, then that would be a surprising fact that requires explanation.

~~~
ootachi
Using John Gruber's publicly reported stats as one data point, Safari commands
a majority share on Mac OS X.

~~~
toddheasley
I work for a very large (Fortune 500) retailer whose customers are
overwhelmingly Mac users. Safari users make up just shy of 50% of all of our
traffic, with Chrome accounting for 25%.

I'd guess that's as much because Safari is the built-in, default option on OS
X and iOS as it is because Safari is just super awesome. The more interesting
thing to me is that all of my (Mac-using)coworkers have switched over (mostly
from Firefox) to Chrome, despite Chrome's overall jankyness on OS X.

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jedberg
I use both on my machine. Safari is my "Facebook" browser -- I use it for
Facebook and Facebook alone.

Chrome is my everything else browser. Mainly because it has a unified
url/search bar. I have no idea with Safari hasn't picked this up, but that's
pretty much it.

Oh and also because all the google apps just seem to work better on Chrome.

I used use Firefox as my everything browser, but it got just too slow. I
mostly only use it for testing and doing front-end development.

~~~
tzs
> Mainly because it has a unified url/search bar. I have no idea with Safari
> hasn't picked this up

Privacy, perhaps? Doesn't a unified url/search bar require giving more
information to Google (or whatever your default search provider is)?

~~~
ajdecon
Not necessarily. All a url/search bar _needs_ to do is check if what you enter
is a valid URL, then search if that fails. (And maybe also if DNS resolution
fails?) If it's a valid URL, it never needs to hit the search engine... if it
is, that's when you want to search anyway.

~~~
tzs
The default in Chrome seems to be to do search suggestion as you type in the
unified bar, so for instance if you decide to visit linear.com and do so by
typing linear.com and hitting return, after you type "linear" and before you
type the "." it suggests "linear equations", "linear algebra", and "linear
regression".

Their documentation says it is doing this by sending the data to Google
whenever you pause while typing in the bar, and that 2% of these requests are
randomly logged, and it is anonymized within 24 hours.

------
jballanc
Browsers are interesting beasts. Sure, you can compete on speed and
compatibility with both standards and existing sites, but only to a point.
Once you reach that point, then what? Most of the interaction you will have
with a browser is outside the control of the browser (i.e. the code of the
sites you visit, ultimately, accounts for 95% of your interaction with a
browser).

I've found that browsers have become a study in small touches and interesting
niches. Firefox, for a long time, had a lock on the "I want to mod the hell
out of this" niche. Meanwhile, as trite as it sounds, I couldn't leave Safari
for the longest time because I had become addicted to the address bar also
showing load progress.

These days, I use Chrome, but not because of speed. I use Chrome because I
have become addicted to OpenSearch (the "Press tab to search this site").
Apple's refusal to merge the address bar and search bar used to be forgivable,
but it is increasingly becoming a pointless distinction to hold out on (and
will cost them market share).

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langsamer
Safari's integration of bookmarks and reading lists over iCloud is just such a
useful feature to have out of the box. I switched back to Safari just for
that. Keeping all my devices in sync is a huge gain over slightly faster
rendering times.

~~~
cheald
Chrome provides similar integrations, except it also can also sync extensions,
passwords, themes, and lots of other data, making it very easy to basically
carry the same environment with you no matter where you're using it.

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verroq
Apple products just suck on windows. Look at the massive piece of shit that is
Quicktime and iTunes. I don't think that anyone that has used either wants to
use another Apple product on windows.

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shinratdr
Apple doesn't promote Safari for Windows and it doesn't offer a very
compelling experience on that platform. On the other hand, Google has been
pushing Chrome like crazy.

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loso
I will give the same answer that many on this page have given, Apple software
is horrible on Windows. Safari horrible, Quicktime, horrible, iTunes, the
granddaddy of horrible. He really didn't have to go any further with the
story, he already answered his own question.

I like the idea of iTunes and open it occasionally but after a day or two of
using it, I am reminded of just how bad it really is.

------
Legion
People talk about Safari being bad on Windows, but frankly, it offers little
reason to use it on a Mac either.

Really, the only thing that prevents Safari from being the "worst" mainstream
browser is the existence of IE.

It's not _awful_. It just pairs mediocre performance with fewer features and
lower extensibility.

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rdl
I'm not a big fan of Safari on Mac either; I use Chrome everywhere, and
Firefox only if I want to debug something with firebug. I use Safari only if I
need a quick way to run a browser with no personalization settings, to see how
sites work.

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statictype
1\. It's fast 2\. It updates automatically 3\. It's fast 4\. I can have all my
settings/passwords/bookmarks synced across all my machines regardless of OS
5\. It's fast. It opens faster than notebook.exe on Windows and Preview.app on
OSX

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redthrowaway
This is a question with a really easy answer: Chrome is the best browser out
there right now. That's it. No deep mystery, just a superior product.

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flatline
I mainly use Chrome now, FF sometimes. There's a simple reason I never
installed Safari on Windows: it was pushed on me through Apple Update.

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lazugod
Is this just for desktop browsers?

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j45
Safari gives me the feeling that IE does for some reason. Maybe because it's
linked to the OS creator?

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jpaves
The search bar!

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mikeash
In addition to what others have said, Safari 5.1 moved to a subprocess model
somewhat like Chrome but the change went severely wrong. Memory usage
skyrocketed, and speed and stability both took a big dive. After using Safari
pretty much exclusively since it was originally released, the awful 5.1
release prompted me to switch to Chrome and I haven't looked back since.

Apple's attention really is turned to the mobile space today, and the non-
mobile Safari suffers for it.

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drivebyacct2
Safari has the same problems that Firefox has had in Linux for me. Slow
startups, not terribly responsive tabs. In addition, it hides downloads on the
FS until they're finished, the download box is awkward, and frankly, it still
inferior to Chrome.

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Slimy
tl;dr

Safari sucks, especially on Windows.

Chrome rocks, especially on Windows.

