

Apple drops Consumer Reports/iPhone 4 discussion threads - riffer
http://www.tuaw.com/2010/07/12/apple-drops-consumer-reports-discussion-threads-down-memory-hole/

======
ROFISH
Umm... it's a support board for people who have bought a product, not a
soapbox to whine on. It's one thing to have negative threads about how their
product they bought doesn't work, it's another when people who haven't bought
one complain. (And/or a continuation of the same subject that needs to be
merged into the parent thread.)

EDIT: I should edit quickly to say that what I mean is that support boards
specifically for support are for one purpose: support. Complaints need to go
in the complaint box or the FCC or something.

~~~
illumin8
For some reason Apple spawns such hatred within the industry that fans of
other products will actively create accounts and start trolling on their
message boards. I don't go trolling on Blackberry forums about how their
devices require reboots regularly, or Android forums about the Evo4G battery
life issues, so why do people that don't even own a product feel it is
necessary to do so?

~~~
Batsu
It's an issue of passion, I think.

Compare Apple fans to that of the XBox or PS3. For some horrible reason,
people will defend to the bitter end their console of choice. Nothing is
gained or lost in these arguments, the same arguments are constantly thrown
out, and quite frankly all the facts are widely available (system specs,
regular issues like the RROD or hour-long installs) but no one cares. Everyone
argues an opinion, and because this is the internet, quickly devolve a
discussion to a flame war... I mean, really, how many Mac users have had
serious issues with a one button mouse in the past decade?

~~~
dieterrams
The funny thing is, I don't actually see this sort of behavior from Apple
fans. There isn't that underlying insecurity that causes kids who can't afford
multiple consoles to get into fanboy wars. We're generally happy enough with
our choices that we don't feel the need to constantly attack people who chose
differently. We often do explain _why_ we think Apple products are better, but
that's largely because we can't believe how competitors keep getting it wrong,
not because we're trying to calm inner anxieties about having made the wrong
choice. (It still amazes me how bad the interface design on MP3 players were
years after the iPod took over the market.)

The problem is that there are now tons of anti-Apple trolls hanging out on the
Internet, a lot of whom are Android users who apparently feel the need to
attack iPhone users with every spare moment. (Naturally, we defend ourselves.)
What guts me is seeing this juvenile behavior on _Hacker freaking News_. This
is by far one of the best online communities I've ever seen, but the anti-
Apple trolling has definitely taken it down a notch.

~~~
jarek
> The funny thing is, I don't actually see this sort of behavior from Apple
> fans.

> We're generally happy enough with our choices

I realize this is anecdote vs anecdote, but I see plenty of it. Where do you
usually hang out on the internet?

~~~
dieterrams
Engadget, Macrumors, and here, for the most part (though I only comment here).
The anti-Apple trolling is positively insane at Engadget, presumably because
the average age of their commenters must be low, but it can get pretty bad at
virtually any tech-oriented site, and even places like nytimes.com.

I definitely don't think 100% of Apple fans are immune to the above-decribed
behavior: there are always some who aren't, especially if they're teenagers.
You'll see more of that stuff now, because the space is polarized, and Apple
fans have been put on the defensive. And yet I hardly ever see Apple fans
producing _hate-fueled_ criticism of other products and their fans. We receive
way more of that stuff than we dish out.

------
pavs
I have some rules when buying gadgets:

\- Never buy it in the first six months of release, even if it is a holodeck.

\- Read/watch review. Not only from fanboys but also from rivals and people
who despise this gizmo.

\- If its expensive (and a bit out of your range), wait to see if there is any
competing products. (I am still waiting to see what Google has to offer before
getting iPad)

Frankly I am surprised that most tech savvy consumers don't follow some of
these rule.

~~~
asdf333
Correction: _especially_ if its a holodeck.

haven't you seen what happens when the holodeck is broken in the next
generation?! it is no laughing matter.

~~~
GrandMasterBirt
I dunno man, if I had an insane holodeck I am sure its better than not having
one :)

------
asnyder
Remember, it's Apple, no dissent is allowed.

Frankly, most companies would probably do the same thing. You wouldn't want a
highly negative thread in your forums. That might make potential customers
question their zeal and wait for the next model before they make their
purchase. Definitely not something you want if you're in the business of
releasing new phones every year or so.

~~~
mcknz
A smart company would use its own forums to respond directly to its customers.

~~~
napierzaza
I'm sure that they will respond publicly to this. They already did, and they
might very well change direction. But it's not too reasonable to expect a
whole organization to do an about face within 24 hours of a bad review from
CR.

Apple likes to shoot first and ask questions later. They banned a number of
apps and only reversed the ruling after PR problems. So we'll see if this
happens.

------
sounddust
I guess they undeleted them, because I see both threads on their forums:

[http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2503667...](http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2503667&tstart=0)

[http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2503228...](http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2503228&tstart=15)

~~~
city41
For what it's worth, neither of those threads are the main one the article is
talking about, which can be seen here:
[http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=consumer+report+apple+site:...](http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=consumer+report+apple+site:discussions.apple.com&d=674577384348&mkt=en-
US&setlang=en-US&w=6fddb6d,f506f19b)

------
Padraig
I'm looking forward to a proper response to these design issues.

I have quite a bit of my savings invested in Apple and, while a recall would
be bad, an Apple that doesn't recognise it's own fuck ups would be far more
serious.

They've made it much harder for themselves with Jobs' obnoxious e-mails and
that dishonest press release.

------
jsz0
I'm really surprised in all 61 comments here no one has bothered to mention
Apple left the "Serious Antenna Problem!" thread active. Basic forum
moderation -- no need for duplicate threads on the same topic. I guess it's
not quite as entertaining to look at it in an objective way though and, of
course, that's what everyone on the Internet really wants: Entertainment.

------
Aaronontheweb
"Just hold the phone differently, peasants!" - Steve Jobs

~~~
Glide
Funny thing is, I actually hold showed a person who bought an iPhone 4 how to
hold the phone without cupping the bottom part. He nows hold it a different
way and hasn't gotten any issues.

This really shows that there are always so many things we assume don't matter
but really do. And frankly how I'm holding a cell phone shouldn't matter.

------
srparish
Apple has been doing this stuff for years. I bought a macbook pro two years
ago and the dvd drive started failing withing the first 6 months. I took it
into their store and got a run around and no replacement. There were third
party forums with a lot of complaints, but most of the posts on Apple's
support site disappeared pretty quickly.

~~~
YooLi
Probably because the posts weren't related to tech support or there were
already threads or a thread about the drive.

I don't really get the mentality. The users know what they are posting isn't
tech support but do it anyway. You see the same thing on deal sites like
slickdeals/fatwallet where someone posts in the hot deals forum and even says
something like "this isn't a hot deal but I wanted to get the most people to
see this..."

It also happens in Amazon product reviews. I don't want to read about how the
3rd party merchant you ordered from took 4 weeks to ship it to you when I am
looking for product (not merchant) reviews. All the people who give 1-star
reviews to books that aren't available in Kindle format to 'force' the
publishers to release them are doing the same thing. It's a self-entitlement
problem.

------
sdh
Apple Rule #1: Never buy the 1st rev of any Apple product.

It is unfortunate, because I really want an iPad, but it's a hard reality we
have to tolerate until Apple figures out how to get their 1st revs right.

The most disturbing aspect of this rule is the almost guaranteed denial of 1st
rev problems by Apple.

~~~
CoryMathews
uhh this is version 4 of the iPhone.

While I agree with you, on first gen, but this is a 4th gen iPhone
conversation.

~~~
city41
Eh, I would consider the phones to theoretically be version 1.0 (first gen),
1.5 (3g), 1.6 (3gs) and the iPhone 4 is 2.0. Avoiding "dot oh" releases is a
common thing regardless of manufacturer.

------
gojomo
Also, HN kills many threads with complaints about HN.

It's the prerogative and even duty of a forum proprietor to steer discussion
in productive directions, given the goals of the forum. Proprietors aren't
obligated to let a culture of complaint take hold, or provide a soapbox for
all their implacable critics.

Sure, certain actions will appear to be -- or actually be -- heavy-handed and
counterproductive. But some control is definitely better than none. It's a
matter of choosing the right amount, while occasionally over- or under-
shooting.

There are plenty of places to hear about the CR review, or bitch about Apple
and its products -- Apple's own forums don't need to be one those places.

~~~
joe_the_user
Evidence?

Threads get modded down but that's a bit different.

~~~
gojomo
Make sure you have 'showdead' on in your preferences. You'll see occasional
flare-ups of whiny or repetitive threads all [dead]-ed. One recent series was
a bunch of "why did thread X get killed?" "why did the question about thread X
get killed?" etc.

You'll also see what looks like arbitrary [dead]ing of plausibly topical
submissions -- and with what appears to be HN preference against offering
explanations or answering questions, people are left guessing why. Sometimes I
think it's just that a few users who like to use flags-as-downvotes wander by
at a time, triggering an auto-[dead], and then no attentive admin is
sufficiently motivated to reverse the decision. (A bunch of submissions and
comments that seemed harmless to me were [dead]ed over the July 4 weekend,
perhaps because more surly flaggers than magnanimous admins were online.)

Also, I find it ironic that people are downvoting my defense of forum-
moderation. Don't they realize their downvotes are -- by causing my comment to
fade and drop out of view -- _censoring_ me?

Hypocritical basterds! :)

 _edit: added 2nd paragraph with more anecdotal examples_

------
GrandMasterBirt
I read the cached version. The damn form post was a flame war about how one
dude can't stand consumer reports. Its amazing how well he baited people.

However if no more posts arise, that is a problem.

------
niekmaas
So? Apple is a company that tries to make money. It's not a goverment funded
organisation that is founded to serve its users with a fair and allround
content.

If Apple decides to delete those threads than they should be able to do so.

~~~
stanleydrew
No one said they shouldn't be able to. It's interesting that they chose to
though.

~~~
bonsaitree
I wouldn't use the term "interesting" so much as "foolish".

Much like Best Buy's recent firing/non-firing of that employee, the act itself
only serves to add more fuel to the negative-PR fire.

~~~
alanstorm
When has Negative PR kept a dominant technology company from remaining
dominant?

