

Outsourcing graphic design at 99designs.com - hermitcrab
http://successfulsoftware.net/2009/02/16/outsourcing-artwork-through-99designscom/

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tptacek
Watch out, or the graphic design police will write you up for soliciting "Spec
Work" --- <http://no-spec.com>.

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dablya
" At the end of the day, there is a certain irony in spec work. A prospect
requesting it is ultimately saying, 'My project isn’t important enough to hire
a professional who will take the time to understand my situation and goals and
invest the time needed to create a suitable solution.' "

Is there something wrong with is? If I want to create a webapp and have no
clue about graphic design, I would be happy with something that looks ok. I'm
not looking for somebody to understand my situation, I just want something
better then a border="1" table with default buttons.

~~~
tptacek
Of course there's nothing wrong with it. I want my offices to look nice, too,
but I don't need a weeklong branding consultation to figure out what kind of
potted plants best complement my company's persona.

I think this is a classic business model problem with consultative services:
60-80% of the work is, in fact, cookie-cutter stuff that can be executed by
any barely-competant practioner, and the remaining 20-40% doesn't easily
command the premium required to staff an expert firm. So firms pretend that
the low-margin 60% doesn't exist.

I don't get why graphic design, alone among all professional service
practices, should be exempt from project risk. Some high-end lawyers we've
worked with have practically fallen over themselves to offer advice in
anticipation of a professional relationship; I've tried to do the same thing
with my clients, prospects, and peers.

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alabut
_"Some high-end lawyers we've worked with have practically fallen over
themselves to offer advice in anticipation of a professional relationship."_

Offering advice is completely different than them drawing up a few sample
usable contracts for you to use without restriction, all as a taste of more
possible work to come.

Why is it that some programmers think design is so easy? Designers that think
programming is easy bug the shit out of me so the reverse is no less arrogant.
The percentage breakdown is taken completely out of thin air or maybe only
applies to mid-level designers with cookie cutter work.

Having said all that, I'm a designer that's actually not against crowdsourcing
designs (I like crowdspring more than 99designs) because it's not the same as
spec work. Rather than a one-on-one type of relationship without any
transparency, basically a closed door job audition, the crowdsourcing sites
allow designers to compete openly and showcase their talent, even if their
work isn't selected. They can also reuse work that isn't selected for future
projects, for design layouts at least (not so much for logos), and eat the
whole buffalo as it were.

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tptacek
It's funny, because WSGR (probably the most famous of the Bay Area law firms)
did exactly that with YC, drafting a series of term sheet contracts for free.

I don't think design work is easy, and I'm not saying I advocate spec work as
a sound business choice, but I don't see the ethical problem. Design firms
sound a lot like realtors when they talk about boycotting things like
99designs.

And again, it is also the case that for 80% of the market, "competant" is the
hurdle, not "groundbreaking" or even "distinctive". People who need
"competant" design are ill-served by projects padded with weeklong branding
sessions, or even multiple rough comps to choose from.

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jraines
For one consulting project I outsourced logo design to 99designs.com with a
$300 "contest" and was absolutely blown away by the quantity and quality of
submissions. I got probably a dozen out of 80+ submissions that would've been
perfectly suitable.

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asmithmd1
I agree - I got great value for a $350 logo contest.

The two designers whose logos I liked the best participate in many contests at
once and win about 10% of the ones they enter. They must look at the prize
money and divide by 10 for their expected payout and then know how much time
to put into each contest.

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patio11
With the price of custom graphical work these days, either from 99designs.com
or from your favorite graphical talent in the 3rd world (if you find one you
like and works well with you, hang onto them -- solid gold), you can justify
quality original graphics for projects that would never have merited it
before.

My little brother is trying to break into comics without drawing ability -- so
he's outsourcing it, for prices that are a) cheap enough for an American
college student to afford and b) impressive for an Indian college student to
command.

Here's a page:

[http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3112/3151984260_6416872194_b....](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3112/3151984260_6416872194_b.jpg)

Take a guess at how much that page cost.

You guessed too high. No, really, you did.

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trapper
How much?

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patio11
I think it was $15.

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andrewhyde
I've written very negatively about spec work in the past, and because of this
I get approached at conferences to discuss this issue.

I've now met 5 people doing work for 99designs and other spec work sites with
an intent of coming back later in a legal form. It is all about intent, and
you are asking a designer to do custom work for you with the intent not to
pay.

I've said it is inherently evil, and somethings like this are going to happen.

I like the saying "there is no such thing as a great designer, only a great
client." You drive the design, and if you resort to sites like these, you open
yourself up to a slew of legal issues, and wave the flag that you are not
willing to work on one of the most important public parts of you company.

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c1sc0
I guess it depends on which stage of your website development you are in. When
I'm bootstrapping it and I'm not even sure whether the idea will be a success,
I'm not willing to invest in anything more than _good enough_. When I have
some empirical evidence that the idea will fly (e.g. a/b tests, first sale
closed), only _then_ will I get in touch with a great designer to do custom
work. As a plus, I will probably have discovered what I really want from the
designer by that time and will be able to _drive_ the design in a better way.

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timcederman
Is Andy Brice on HN? I just sent a link to Perfect Table Plan to my brother
who is planning his wedding currently, and thinks it's awesome.

~~~
hermitcrab
Yes, and I am not above plugging my own articles. ;0)

Glad your brother likes PerfectTablePlan.

