
Screwed by Lufthansa and the German Government, Saved by PayPal - ZeljkoS
https://svedic.org/travel/screwed-by-lufthansa-german-government-saved-by-paypal
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vinni2
I am getting screwed by KLM. I am guessing the Dutch government is giving
similar option to KLM. my travel insurance is also screwing me saying that I
should accept the voucher. It’s unfair the governments are bailing out
airlines but they are just holding on to our money for the cancelled flights.

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fluential
I have had cancelled overall 5 flights during this time for which I got zero
response from any airline, there was no option to speak to a human as “all
representatives were always busy”. All I could get is a voucher.

I’ve managed to get all refunded 3 x chargeback via credit cards and 2 x
paypal. Provided basic proof of purchase. (UK)

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vinni2
So you got both voucher and the refund? Or were you able to cash the voucher?

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idanman
Similar issue with Aeroflot. They cancelled my flight and issued a refund but
said it would take weeks. After 4 weeks called my credit card company and they
issued a credit to my account immediately. The credit card company said that I
could have called after a week, didn’t have to wait 4.

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vinni2
Is it because your credit card offered a travel insurance? Or just a dispute?

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idanman
In this case a dispute.

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vinni2
Just wondering is the money coming from airline or the credit card?

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idanman
From the credit card. They will then deal with the company. So then it becomes
their (the credit card company’s) problem.

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pepa65
It seems KLM has covered their bases — but can they?? This is what I read on
the Paypal page when starting the dispute process:

Message from Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V.

Dear Passenger, Please visit our website
[http://www.klm.com](http://www.klm.com) to get the latest flight information
about Coronavirus. Hereby the situation is minutely monitored so you can get
the latest information. We highly recommend making use of the self-service
options on our website to change your flight or request a travel voucher.
Claims connected to Coronavirus about” KLM service not rendered” can`t be
handled on PayPal site, only on KLM site. Thank you for your cooperation.

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FormFollowsFunc
I pre-paid for a hotel with my debit card. The hotel cancelled the booking
because of the lockdown in the UK. They refused to provide a refund, instead
offering me to reschedule the booking some other time. As I was unlikely to
visit that city any time soon I tried to get a chargeback through my debit
card but I discovered that Government lockdowns are not covered by the Visa
chargeback process.

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anonAndOn
Are you sure this was due to the chargeback process or because you used a
debit card? Even vendors that have a NO REFUNDS policy can still lose credit
card chargebacks because the bank will side with the customer the vast
majority of the time.

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wil421
What reason do you give the bank or credit card company for the chargeback?

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anonAndOn
For a canceled hotel reservation, probably Service Not Provided.

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lowdose
> Lufthansa was on the verge of bankruptcy and agreed to a €9 billion bailout
> from the German government. In an effort to save the company, the German
> government told Lufthansa that they don’t need to obey EU consumer
> protection law, and that they don’t need to issue refunds.

It's so sad to see capitalism getting killed by bureaucrats out of self
interest.

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andor
Not sure what you mean.

Without government help there wouldn't be any airlines left. Would you prefer
that?

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lowdose
> Without government help there wouldn't be any airlines left.

Could you elaborate on that please?

Edit: It's just another round of socializing risk while privatizing profit.
Too big to fail is a hoax. When a firm is declared bankrupt only 1% the of
value is lost to bankruptcy costs.

The other 99% is recovered by creditors through asset sales, restructuring,
layoffs of people that use their knowledge in other companies.

The ratio of direct bankruptcy costs to the market value of the firm appears
to fall as the value of the firm increases.

As measured here, the cost of bankruptcy is on average about one percent of
the market value of the firm prior to bankruptcy.

[https://www.jstor.org/stable/2326766?seq=1](https://www.jstor.org/stable/2326766?seq=1)

