
Color: The Next Limited Resource? - bootload
http://sixrevisions.com/web_design/color-the-next-limited-resource/
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dkokelley
If T-Mobile can trademark Magenta in the mobile space, I would like to
trademark vowels. In fact, my new startup, AEIOU(Y), works in the audio-
engineering space, so would all actors, TV producers, musicians, and everyone
else who records sound, please refrain from using vowels. We don't want our
customers to confuse us with your recordings.

Being serious, I understand the need to protect your brand from people who
would capitalize on the trust and recognition the brand has built. From what I
understand, with trademark law definitions are often based on a 'reasonable
person's' potential deception (eg. would a reasonable person mistake your
generic kleenex for brand name Kleenex?). All other things held constant, it
would appear that the mental capacity of a reasonable person has declined.

~~~
mtts
The definition of what a reasonable person is, seems somewhat variable. The
law holds that a reasonable person is too stupid to see the difference between
a T-Mobile logo done up in magenta and an Engadget one but at the same time is
smart enough, apparently, to reason that Tesco's "Lincolnshire sausages" are
merely made in "typical Lincolnshire fashion" (whatever that means) using pork
sourced from the Netherlands, Germany and Poland.

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lucumo
_> The law holds that a reasonable person is too stupid to see the difference
between a T-Mobile logo done up in magenta and an Engadget one_

I think you must take into account that logo colours are often used in other
aspects of corporate appearance. The colour may be used as a band across an
envelope, a letter, or an ad. Done well, you really only need to see that
coloured band to know who's sending it.

~~~
jacquesm
That's exactly why this shouldn't be allowed. There is a very small number
colours that the eye can readily tell apart, if we allow big corporations to
claim these the rest of us will be communicating in black and white.

If it is a complete colorscheme then I have less of a problem with it.

It's funny how this seems to be a phone company thing, in NL KPN (the old
telco monopolist) has a claim on light green.

~~~
lucumo
I don't entirely disagree. But it's an oversimplification to state that the
law thinks users are too stupid to see the difference in logos if the colour
is the same, as GGP did.

~~~
jacquesm
There is actually some good proof supporting the GGGP's point. Shady
marketeers will use a completely different logo in the exact same shade of
colour to fool people in to thinking they're dealing with the phone company
when they send out bills for inclusion in bogus directories.

It works, it's a simple as that.

But that should mean to me that if you don't want any confusion that you
should pick a black-and-white scheme and force the customer to read instead of
using legal tricks to monopolize part of the spectrum.

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shaddi
This article seems to defeat its own point. The visual with companies' logos
on the visible spectrum
(<http://www.flickr.com/photos/philgyford/56867986/sizes/o/>) shows that
multiple companies can claim the same colors with no problems.

I don't confuse IBM and Intel, Barclay's and Prudential, or Ford and GM simply
because they occupy similar locations in the color space.

This is an interesting article but I don't think we're going to deplete the
color space the way we're going to deplete the IPv4 address space. People and
companies have been using distinctive colors for a very long time, and we've
managed to avoid this problem quite well.

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natmaster
This seems like a good example of what's wrong with intellectual property
laws.

~~~
dbz
Oh gosh. Soon I bet people are going to start claiming individual words.

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drusenko
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genericized_trademark>

"Where a trademark is used generically, a trademark owner may need to take
special proactive measures to retain exclusive rights to the trademark. Xerox
corporation was able to generally prevent the genericide of its core trademark
through an extensive public relations campaign advising consumers to
"photocopy" instead of "xerox" documents."

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Shana
Actually, This article is impossible. A L _A_ B* colorspace would suggest that
color is not uniform at all, and we have large perceptual issues with it.
Metamerism and all. There is both infinite Chromaticity and Infinite Luminance
from a variety of directions to a point. You get an infinite amount of
colors...

So what???? Just because We've decided to use the Pantone system to simply
things doesn't mean a Pantone Swatch looks the same in all lights (Luminance).
Within each swatch, there are infinite subcolors.

So yeah, it's impossible to copyright a magenta- although you can probably
specify which Pantone magenta for the sake of certain pigment specifications
you mean, you can't trademark magenta. There are infinite magentas...

An sRGB or Adobe RGB colorspace is just a specific cut of L _A_ B*, since
there is a specified singular white-point rather than a fluctuating relative
luminance. You'll still get infinite color problems with both, as well as
Metamerism (different colors via spectrum that look the same to the human eye)

So Trademark all you want. I'll stick your magenta on a yellow background.
It's now a different magenta because of perceptual issues.

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nopassrecover
Interestingly during a recent trip to SF I was reminded of Three Australia
everytime I saw T-Mobile's advertising. The Coca-Cola red/Cadbury
purple/Starbucks green/Virgin red are probably more well-known associations
though. Incidentally, the visualisations in this article are pretty cool.

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delackner
I was particularly struck by the passing reference to the (unknown to me)
International Klein Blue, a color made by and then patented by Yves Klein, a
pure blue pigment suspended in clear resin, a color that cannot be experienced
on a screen or page, but only by seeing the real thing. An experience that you
have to HAVE in person, that cannot be approximated online.

A bit of google and wiki later, I read the surreal ending to his life:
"[Klein] suffered a first heart attack whilst watching the film Mondo Cane at
the Cannes Film Festival[...] Two more heart attacks followed, the second of
which killed him on 6 June 1962. His son, Yves, was born a few months later in
Nice...[His son] grew up to study architecture, design, cybernetics theory of
systems, and Fine Arts sculpture. He went on to create robotized sculptures."

One thing leads to another and before I know it I have read a series of things
that together induced the sensation of having experienced a moving art
installation.

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quellhorst
A company can sue you for anything. Don't be intimidated in your color
choices. The only way they win is if you don't fight!

~~~
jamesbritt
"The only way they win is if you don't fight!"

The _only_ way? How about if they overpower you in an expensive, drawn-out
court battle.

Not only is the law stupid, but in the US the process to resist it is
seriously flawed.

~~~
quellhorst
The trick is that you don't hire a lawyer. You defend yourself and they are
the ones getting all of the invoices from expensive lawyers. There are also
things you can to do cause them to have higher legal fees.

Books from Nolo are very valuable when you are defending yourself.

~~~
fnid
I agree. I always wondered why lawsuits are inherently expensive. If they are
bringing the case, they pay the court costs. You don't _have_ to pay
attorneys. Life is about learning and experience and what better way than to
be taken on a ride through a new system?

Take it as an opportunity to build a legal defense information system, then
sell it and make a bundle off the experience you gain.

~~~
jamesbritt
It depends on the stakes. If this is merely a case of C&D, and if you lose you
just stop doing whatever it was you were doing, the risk is nil.

If there is a claim for damages or restitution or whatever, and you may be out
of pocket if you lose, you need to weigh the cost of legal help versus the
risk of losing.

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jrockway
Anyone can claim anything they want. I can say the topcolor of HN is "jrockway
green" (because mine is green). It doesn't matter though, because nobody else
has to call it that, and I can't stop anyone else from using it. (I can send
you a C&D, of course, but you can just ignore it because you can't own a
color.)

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mtts
Read the article again. Companies can in fact trademark a specific color and
they do - T-Mobile magenta is specifically mentioned.

If T-Mobile magenta shows up in a photograph or a painting, that is, of
course, not a problem, but if it shows up in another corporate logo (the
article specifically mentions Engadget Mobile), T-Mobile gets to sue and wins.

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jrockway
Engadget Mobile's logo is still the same color, so I don't think T-Mobile sued
and won. They simply mailed a nastygram, which anyone can do for any (or no)
reason.

~~~
kristiandupont
Orange did sue EasyMobile over color. I am not sure if they won or not, but
obviously they must have felt they had enough of a case to go to court.

