
The habit of habit engineering - seapunk
https://threader.app/thread/1078647576201703427
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beaker52
"make a spreadsheet", "listen to this podcast/audiobook", "INBOX ZERO", "check
out this cool new app" (which turns out to be fundamentally the same as the
last app)

I feel like everything I've seen on this topic in the past 10 years is the
same stuff over and over.

I used to be young and spriteful, and I'd to get giddy at the prospect of "the
new way" to form habits and improve whatever it was I wanted to in my life,
but now I'm just a jaded old man with the same problems. I've made some token
improvements here and there but I'm willing to wager that if you pick up this
spreadsheet today you won't be using it a year and a half from now.

It really surprises me that no real ground has been broken on this subject in
recent years. We seem to be obsessed with the topic but it's a constant
problem with a fairly stagnant set of solutions.

~~~
julienreszka
Turns out planning isn't useful in any way until you assess current situation
clearly. Turns out assessing current situation isn't easy at all. There is no
single clear and easy fix to this.

~~~
rzzzt
Planning isn't useful if you do not intend to take action based on it.

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thisisit
I think many of the habit creating methods tend to forget that habit creation
should be easy and not test your willpower.

For example, I spent years trying to reduce my weight and in spite of balanced
diets, group motivation etc I failed a lot. Then one day I read about keto. I
enjoy eating fatty foods a lot, so relying on fats as energy seemed easy.
Eventually when I started my diet, it was like a walk in the park. I enjoyed
my every meal and never felt like I was being forced to do something.

On the other hand, for stuff like mediation I tried the method mentioned in
the thread. Complete the habit, mark it in a habit tracker. It worked great.

But, later due to a family emergency I had to travel and those were two
stressful weeks. In those weeks, completing the habit and then tracking felt
like a chore. It was at that time I realized for better or worse I saw these
things as checklist items and not habits.

Lately, I have been trying the Tiny Habits method from BJ Fogg. The premise of
this method is to make habits automatic and not rely on trackers or alarms to
complete them. And instead of relying purely on will power day by day to
complete them think of the smallest step possible. It works great for the
three habits I have started with.

~~~
brian_cunnie
> ...habit creation should be easy and not test your willpower.

I couldn't agree more. I tried going to the gym to stay in shape, but it was
touch-and-go.

Then I discovered that I enjoyed rugby and open water swimming, and that
changed everything: exercise was no longer a chore, it was fun! And that makes
a world of difference.

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comvidyarthi
The best way of tracking that has worked for me over the years has been
automatic tracking. For example my fitness band automatically tracks my
workouts and gives me the summary, it automatically tracks my sleep too, my
meditation app automatically tracks my meditation sessions, writing a blog as
a part of completing the understanding of something new I learnt automatically
tracks my learnings. Keeping things simple and automated is the best way to go
as far as tracking is concerned.

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poisonborz
Good article. Never heard the term 'habit engineering' before - this topic is
mostly plastered with the word productivity.

I also deal with this a lot, like many others, mostly centered around logging
activity, saving information and todos. I started logging my daily activity
and expenses in a simple keyword-based txt format since 10 years, coupled with
an ordered way to store photos, automatic pc/mobile time tracking, and service
backups (chat logs, social media, etc). I started to write a simple open
source platform to review all these on a unified interface, but time is short
and there's always something more important.

Shaping habits sounds intriguing and rather different to this. Exemplified
with the last sentence above, hard-coding specific time for 'habits' could be
more effective, but it's also rather brittle if you don't have an orderly
strict daily routine. This is super subjective - great systems can serve as
toolboxes for everyone to compose what they need.

But the whole topic is really interesting, a wide intersection between self-
development/meditation and technology. I'm really interested in the systems of
others - wish 'habit engineering' or a similar term would be widely known to
distinct complex lifestyle routines from the sea of generic 'productivity
tips'.

~~~
adambyrtek
> I also deal with this a lot, like many others, mostly centered around
> logging activity, saving information and todos

I used to preserve and organise all my digital life as well, but at some point
I found it really liberating to just let things go. Storage might be cheap,
but maintaining a comprehensive archive takes effort which could be better
spent on future projects. In fact, I realised that treating historical data as
ephemeral helps me achieve more and obsess less about perfection.

Of course this is just my personal opinion, different approaches work for
different people.

~~~
tvanantwerp
Agree. I've spent a lot of time quantifying and logging parts of my life in
the past, but I wasn't using the data to guide future action. So anything I
track that isn't helping me achieve something, I now stop tracking.

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theSage
I've been using Habitica + Anki for a while now and I'm quiet sure that this
is by far the best of what I picked up this year.

[https://habitica.com/](https://habitica.com/)
[https://apps.ankiweb.net/](https://apps.ankiweb.net/)

~~~
mkbkn
Came here to say this.

Any tips on using Anki for remembering texts such as theory etc. (those not in
question-answer format.)

~~~
KerrickStaley
Use cloze deletions! [https://apps.ankiweb.net/docs/manual.html#cloze-
deletion](https://apps.ankiweb.net/docs/manual.html#cloze-deletion)

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charlieegan3
I've gone one step further and have built a simple CRUD app for all the things
I'm tracking.

I find this easier to update from my phone than a spreadsheet.

I'm a big believer in 'streaks' as a form of motivation and I've got simple
views in my app for representing this for habits.

I use the same app for more general tracking of my life, it's not just for
habits.

Having all the data in a database makes querying and understanding this data
easier for me.

I'm not suggesting this is for everyone. It only works if you know a framework
pretty well. I know rails and it has a pretty good scaffolding feature to bang
out forms and basic views in minutes making it faster than creating a
spreadsheet for me.

~~~
baxtr
Do you store all values into a spreadsheet?

~~~
charlieegan3
Nah,they the rails app runs on the free tier on Heroku with a postgres db.

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baxtr
I do that too: tracking time I spend at work. Peter Drucker recommends to keep
a log for a while and then to review how you’ve spent your time.

Still, looking at this blog, it kind of feels weird, in the sense that through
this approach we’re creating machines rather than humans. Perfect performance
as life goal seems creepy

~~~
codeproject
"Still, looking at this blog, it kind of feels weird, in the sense that
through this approach we’re creating machines rather than humans."

Totally agree. this is why this approach isn't easy to be accepted by the wide
audiences.

" Perfect performance as life goal seems creepy" Creepy is a harsh word, this
word is abused by Americans. I understand what you try to say. may I use the
word " a little bit of disturbed"

~~~
baxtr
Thanks. Creepy is probably indeed a bit harsh

------
PacifyFish
Comments on the thread
([https://twitter.com/ali01/status/1078647601371799554](https://twitter.com/ali01/status/1078647601371799554))
are generally useful.

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throwawaylalala
I’m using my Pavlok to break old bad habits and remind myself to do new things
(but not both at once). A few shocks really gets my monkey mind to alter it’s
behavior...

~~~
bobbiechen
Link for the curious like me: [https://pavlok.com/](https://pavlok.com/)

It's a wristband that gives you electric shocks.

I realize I've actually used one before, while playtesting a VR game which
used this to give "damage taken" feedback. I was pretty bad dodging hits
despite the motivation.

~~~
maneesh
Wow!! Do you know what Vr game that was? I’ve always wanted to integrate
Pavlok with vr

~~~
bobbiechen
It was a friend's prototype for a class in game development, actually, so it's
not available publicly. I did find it was a little disorienting to get shocked
in the right wrist even when hit on the left side - something to keep in mind
if you ever want to develop it!

------
rini17
As usual, not even a word how to stay motivated despite distractions. Like,
other people (I don't mean internet social networks) and occassional illness.

~~~
coldtea
We're not supposed to "stay motivated despite distractions".

If somebody close to you dies e.g. it's ok to mourn them, before picking up.

If a family member has an issue, it's ok to drop our productivity while
helping them out.

We don't have to be perfect performing machines 24/7 -- nor does it matter in
the end, when we'll all be in the grave.

As for lesser everyday distractions, the suggested "habit forming" is
precisely a way the author proposes to stay motivated in face of them.

~~~
pergadad
Exactly. All this nonsense here about discipline tells me people haven't
really even started. We're not meant to be machines. Test habits that shut
find useful, as well as motivational tools that you find useful. But don't try
to force yourself into a schedule each day that makes you miserable.

For me the best way has been to slowly try to change my habits, eg from juice
and soda to was and from tea and coffee to caffeine free tea. There's no need
to be perfect, just to slowly try to shift your habits in a generally better
direction.

------
kakarot
Great article. I would appreciate a breakdown of the provided spreadsheet, for
example I'm unsure of what "Weight" is supposed to be.

Who wants to create an app with me? Simplify the stats and streamline the data
entry, then provide a way to lock down certain apps to a given time-limit a
day, which cannot be passed without logging/completing a certain percentage of
your daily habits/goals.

~~~
codemac
It comes from the OKR obsession of Google.

You "weight" your different outcomes so you can come to a single score were
the outcomes are weighted based on their priority to the organization.

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Void_
My go-to tool for creating habits has been Moleskine Weekly notebook.

You get 2 pages for each week. I draw a table on every Sunday, then I check in
every night.

Weekly notebook is better than freestyle, because the empty pages remind me I
need to fill them in.

It's also just the right size for traveling - so I take it everywhere with me.

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knrz
Totally on board with this idea! I've been experimenting with similar things,
and I wrote my perspective here: [http://b.knrz.co/whats-the-right-thing-to-
do](http://b.knrz.co/whats-the-right-thing-to-do)

~~~
muvek
You show 2 screenshots on your blog post. What app is that?

~~~
bockris
By looking at this list [https://www.lifehack.org/668261/best-habit-tracking-
apps](https://www.lifehack.org/668261/best-habit-tracking-apps)

the screenshots match 'way of life' #24

------
kyberias
Or: Don't Break The Chain! as Jerry Seinfeld would put it:

[https://www.writersstore.com/dont-break-the-chain-jerry-
sein...](https://www.writersstore.com/dont-break-the-chain-jerry-seinfeld/)

