
Bat-Killing Wind Turbines Outfitted with Systems to Stop Carnage - lil-scamp
https://news.duke-energy.com/releases/duke-energy-renewables-to-use-new-technology-to-help-protect-bats-at-its-wind-sites
======
scblock
This is a very short article with an absolute dearth of information and an
extremely misleading and baiting headline. If someone is willing to do the
legwork to locate some real information these projects, this technology, and
what Duke is doing I’d really appreciate it, but this article in particular is
far too low quality to justify its position on the front of this site as is.

Wind turbines can and do kill bats. We (as an industry) unfortunately learned
this in the wrong way initially, when we sited and built wind projects without
doing the study and siting work that what we should have done. But now when we
site projects and machines now we try to do things right. For projects that
pose risk to bats that involves wildlife studies from third party experts that
include evaluation of bat habitat, identifying bat hibernacula, performing
mist netting and bat habitation studies to identify actual species presence,
and where needed incorporating turbine curtailment approaches to reduce bat
take. We consult with the US Fish & Wildlife Service as well. The approach for
birds of concern is similar, but mitigation approaches vary by species.

Note: I am not a bat or wildlife expert myself. But I work with these firms
during project development, and I support the technical side of consultations
with FWS, and so on.

~~~
scblock
Here's the actual press release from Duke. It has a little more information on
the technology, though it's still not super detailed.

[https://news.duke-energy.com/releases/duke-energy-
renewables...](https://news.duke-energy.com/releases/duke-energy-renewables-
to-use-new-technology-to-help-protect-bats-at-its-wind-sites)

~~~
dang
Ok, we've changed the URL to that from
[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-26/bat-
killi...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-26/bat-killing-wind-
turbines-outfitted-with-systems-to-stop-carnage) in a small gesture against
information dearth.

------
reustle
This article is surprisingly short. How many bats are being killed? Are birds
having similar issues? Will it help them too? Come on, Bloomberg.

~~~
grawprog
[https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-are-bats-affected-wind-
turbine...](https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-are-bats-affected-wind-turbines)

They're pretty deadly, and it's not collisions that kill them. It's the
pressure differential caused by them. It's too hard on their lungs and makes
them rupture. It's less deadly to birds in that way, their respiratory system
tends to be sturdier.

~~~
Nasrudith
That is kind of ironic - even knowing that durability isn't monolithic and
based off of different things. Birds known for coal mine canaries have the
more durable lungs.

~~~
PhasmaFelis
Indeed! Birds in general have infamously sensitive lungs, apparently because
their respiratory system is a one-way loop instead of an in-and-out piston.
They can exhale one breath at the same time that another is passing through
the lungs. It's amazingly efficient, serving the high oxygen and cooling needs
of active flight, but it's far more susceptible to airborne pollutants of all
kinds.

But, apparently, sensitivity to pollutants is unrelated to sensitivity to
pressure.

Biology is fascinating.

------
helloSirMan
[https://www.windpowerengineering.com/business-news-
projects/...](https://www.windpowerengineering.com/business-news-
projects/duke-energy-to-install-nrg-systems-bat-deterrent-system-at-its-wind-
farms/)

------
stirfrykitty
Not dismissing the danger to bats in general, as they do provide more good
services to nature than bad, but let's not forget, that in numbers, bats
comprise more than 1/4 of all mammals. Losing a few, while likely (hopefully)
preventable, is not a real dent in their population like it would be with
eagles or other birds with smaller populations.

~~~
cr1895
>is not a real dent in their population

In aggregate, sure, but is there an acute local impact that is more serious?

~~~
stirfrykitty
Bats are the single best resource for keeping the populations of bad insects
down. Some places have actually imported bats for this reason.

~~~
LinuxBender
I second this. I have a bat that lives in my roof (yeah, that will eventually
be a problem) and eats its body weight in mosquitoes and moths every day. A
neighbors bat tested positive for rabies and that is my only real concern. I
keep an eye on mine. The species in my neck of the woods lives about 15 years.
That's 15 years of free pest control.

~~~
stirfrykitty
Some people have actually gone so far as to have an outside wall taken out, a
bat house installed (prevents ingress into the house at large) and then sealed
up save the small bat entrance. They enter, hang, sleep, exit. There is a tray
that can be slid out, washed, and re-inserted. This is not for the faint of
heart, as the potential for exposure to rabies and other toxic goo is high,
but some do it nonetheless.

~~~
LinuxBender
I am actually considering something like that. At some point, I need to strip
my home down to the studs regardless. I might just have a box on a lever-pole
that allows lowering and cleaning.

Being attached directly to the house means that each time a new pup is born
and hits the teenage years, it has to learn it doesn't have dominion and
eventually stops complaining when I make noise.

------
helloSirMan
[https://www.nrgsystems.com/products/bat-deterrent-
systems](https://www.nrgsystems.com/products/bat-deterrent-systems)

Without giving much detail, I was associated with this project in one of the
companies involved with recent testing. It was an interesting project, for
sure.

------
sunkenvicar
Wow. This thread is full of anti-nuclear fudd. An amazingly powerful two
sentence Bloomberg blurb!

Generation 3 nuclear is on the way, with bipartisan support. Dozens of
startups are working on generation 4 and on nuclear fusion. Is ycombinator
involved in any?

------
m463
sort of interesting and related:

Moths can jam Bat "radar"

[https://steveblank.com/2009/03/23/if-i-told-
you-i%E2%80%99d-...](https://steveblank.com/2009/03/23/if-i-told-
you-i%E2%80%99d-have-to-kill-you-the-story-behind-the-secret-history-of-
silicon-valley/)

------
gumby
I like that an article about using ultrasonics to deter bats includes the
button "listen to this article".

------
vidarrapp
Robin, hand me the bat-deterrent bat-spray!

------
MikeFr
Wind farms provide unstable power to the system; therefore from basic electric
power systems theory(college level), you need to have a base station(coal or
nuclear or gas) to provide stability to the system. Germany has not shut down
any coal powered factory but they export any excess energy to nearby
countries. Wind farms went up just for the investors sake and because of the
"let's save the planet" fad. Look at your bill. If you did not provide subsidy
to them through your bloated bill, the "investors" could not build wind farms.
It is not economical, plus, you destroy the microclimate on mountain ridges
where you put the wind farms. It's just another way to shaft the public

Check out these posts:

[https://www.energieverite.com/post/lancement-du-
collectif-%C...](https://www.energieverite.com/post/lancement-du-
collectif-%C3%A9nergie-v%C3%A9rit%C3%A9)

Are renewables affecting income distribution and increasing the risk of
household poverty?
[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BF1kms5myPTky4yWopKNGNHDLEQ...](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BF1kms5myPTky4yWopKNGNHDLEQWNXMT/view)

~~~
MikeFr
Also the following is in German:
[https://www.tichyseinblick.de/wirtschaft/hans-werner-sinn-
ve...](https://www.tichyseinblick.de/wirtschaft/hans-werner-sinn-
vernichtendes-urteil-ueber-energiewende/)

Professor([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-
Werner_Sinn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Werner_Sinn)) says that moving
to renewables will never work. Period

~~~
shaki-dora
Some German has-been who is spending his retirement drifting off into right-
wing populism isn't going to convince anybody.

~~~
mkesper
I'd like that to be true, but these people are very much influencing those
that want their statements to be true (so they don't need change anything).

