
Why Twitter Must Be Saved - doener
https://stratechery.com/2016/why-twitter-must-be-saved/
======
aaron-lebo
People have a rose-tinted view of Twitter.

 _And yet it is Twitter that has reaffirmed itself as the most powerful
antidote to Facebook’s algorithm: misinformation certainly spreads via a
tweet, but truth follows unusually quickly; thanks to the power of retweets
and quoted tweets, both are far more inescapable than they are on Facebook._

What is the evidence of this? Even if "truth" follows misinformation on
Twitter, there's so much noise, how do you find it?

 _that the greatest menace to freedom is an inert people; that public
discussion is a political duty,_

Twitter isn't public discussion, unless you consider the following examples of
discussion:

 _Every time I speak of the haters and losers I do so with great love and
affection. They cannot help the fact that they were born fucked up!_ \- Trump

 _Delete your account._ \- Clinton

Riveting.

Don't tell me that Twitter is a vital part of discussion when public
discussion has gotten worse over the past 9 years. This is a long blog post
and only the last few paragraphs even begin to touch on "why Twitter must be
saved", but there's not arguments beyond the sentimental.

Twitter has existed for less than a decade and society got along just fine
without it. It's not as important as people think it is. The author is also
absolutely wrong if they believe that Twitter isn't censored similarly to FB.

~~~
vvanders
It's not just wide public discussion, when there's some large local
event(weather, tornado, etc) I usually find the most up to date and accurate
information on twitter 2-3 hours before any news site.

It's the CB radio of social media and I find huge value in that.

~~~
komali2
Does it function better for you than a google search or a news.google.com
search?

~~~
vvanders
Yes, much better. All it takes is someone and their phone.

Take for instance the recent tornado we had off the Oregon coast. I had
video/pictures/reports showing up even ahead of the local NOAA site or google
news.

~~~
wingerlang
Similar, there was a fire around my office a week ago and within minutes there
were an image on twitter. Within 30 minutes multiple ones from various angles.

Granted, it was the first time I ever went to Twitter for something like this,
but I knew that it was /the/ place for the most up to date information.

And I try to avoid Twitter as much as possible, too annoying to read in there.

------
inopinatus
I knew a serial entrepreneur (three paydirt IPOs and still going) whose
formula for building basic infrastructure was this:

1\. Find some capital to fund it

2\. Build it

3\. Attempt to sell services across it

4\. The prices will be set to recoup investment + return. These prices will be
too high for the market.

5\. Go bust

6\. Get bought for a song

7\. New owner sells services at market-friendly rates.

It merely remains to find VCs to sucker into step (1). More than one internet
backbone got built this way.

I leave unanswered the question of whether Twitter can be treated as
infrastructure, and in particular do not mean to suggest their investors are
this naive.

~~~
herge
I think the intercontinental rail system in the US was built the same way too.

~~~
arethuza
And the UK-France Channel Tunnel - which didn't go bankrupt but did have a
significant financial "restructuring" along the way.

------
ramblenode
This article is a criticism of Facebook, not a defense of Twitter. The idea
that Twitter, by virtue of not being Facebook, is a public square fit for
deliberation of ideas that are key to the health of democracy is fairly
absurd. Tweets are just about as imperfect a medium for dialogue as any that
has existed in the time of the internet. Both Twitter and Facebook in their
current states are fatally flawed as public forums. Let's at least acknowledge
that before exploring solutions.

------
yabatopia
Twitter as a network and format is replaceable and replicatable, Just let it
crash and burn. From the ashes can rise a new and better Twitter-like service.
The current Twitter carries too much nostalgia, undecisivenes and other toxic
dead weight to change course.

~~~
st3v3r
They're gonna have to have a solution for harassment out of the gate,
otherwise they'll suffer the same fate.

~~~
KODeKarnage
They're gonna have to have safe spaces and unashamedly be an echo-chamber out
of the gate, otherwise they'll suffer the same fate.

FYP

~~~
st3v3r
No, you didn't. You completely ignored one of the reasons why Twitter is
tanking. Tell me, why would I want to use Twitter 2 if every time I make a
post I have a dozen people calling for my family to be raped and murdered?

~~~
r3bl
> ...if every time I make a post I have a dozen people calling for my family
> to be raped and murdered

Try using it for a month and make the same argument.

I have posted ~5000 tweets in the last couple of years. I can guarantee you
that neither me nor my family ever got threatened with rape and murder.

This _is_ an issue, but those affected are exceptions, not the rule.

~~~
st3v3r
No. You just handwaved away the experiences of thousands of users. You said
that because YOU don't have a problem, that there isn't one. That is not an
answer.

~~~
r3bl
Again, thousands of users out of 313 million active users is an exception, not
a rule. And I'm in the majority here, not a minority.

I have never said it is not a problem. In fact, I indicated that it is. But it
is a problem that affects a minority of Twitter's users. Are they doing enough
about it? No. Can they stop it completely? No. Are you able to claim that this
is something that happens to everyone? No. Hence why you're getting downvoted.

------
Nadya
_> The payoff, though, is the capability of spreading information more widely
and more quickly than has ever before been possible; the societal benefit is
an externality that needs to be preserved._

So let it die and use GNU Social [0]. Non-techies don't need to know how to
run their own instance and join the federation, but they gain all the benefits
of Twitter, better control of their own data, and don't need to rely on a
company known for censoring views it dislikes.

"Social" can move. See the migration from Digg to Reddit or MySpace to
Facebook. Twitter to GNU Social would be grand. ;)

[0] [https://gnu.io/social/](https://gnu.io/social/)

~~~
_audakel
Not that I like GNU social (get all my news from twitter) but why the down
votes? It is a legitimate idea and project, and he gives examples of similar
undertakings.

~~~
striking
Have you ever tried it? It's not very good.

Like, yes, it's workable and usable. It's okay. But the user experience is
absolutely awful, especially on mobile.

Maybe if HN started its own GNU Social server and started using it, we'd see
some interesting stuff happen.

~~~
rayalez
I'm working on something like that:

[http://hackertribe.io](http://hackertribe.io)

(have not launched yet)

It will be something like a mix of twitter and reddit, but open source,
decentralized, and GNU Social compatible.

~~~
mxuribe
I currently use gnu social for social posts (only for private family instance
for now as a personal beta). And also use matrix.org for IM/chat (also for
private family beta). I'm very happy with both. But if you can get your
platform to continue to speak "gnu social" _AND_ speak "matrix.org" for chat,
I think you would hit a really sweet spot for numerous HN-centric
demographics...at least for HN-type users...then make software dead easy to
install, and civilian users will follow.

I signed up for your newsletter...no pressure, but I (and many others!) really
hope you succeed! :-)

------
largote
Twitter's not going to go under. It just won't grow to FB/GOOG/AMZN/MSFT size
(at least not under their current strategy), and that's not necessarily a bad
thing.

~~~
astrodust
The problem with wild success but not insanely wild success is investors that
were promised insanely wild feel cheated.

~~~
user5994461
I wish we'd consider a multi-billion dollars company as "a wild success".

~~~
gozur88
Is it really a multi-billion dollars company, though? Twitter has never made
money, and it's not clear they ever _will_ make money. A company that can't
make money isn't worth more than its assets minus debt.

~~~
user5994461
They have multi billions in revenue. That definitely qualify it as a multi-
billion dollars company.

------
sintaxi
I'd argue Twitter is being saved from itself right now. Hard to say what will
emerge out of this but twitter has not been on the right path ever since it
killed its developer program and closed its API. Twitter badly needed this
shakeup.

~~~
tdb7893
I find the whole Twitter thing kinda strange. If Twitter had kept this sort of
API the comments now probably would just be "of course they are losing money,
how did they expect to monetize that API"

~~~
reitanqild
> "of course they are losing money, how did they expect to monetize that API"

By selling posting increased posting quotas to news organisations?

Extra integrations (webhooks etc) to companies?

~~~
tdb7893
I think that would definitely work some but I'm sceptical there are enough
companies that will pay. My personal opinion is that they would run into the
same problem they are having now, they are making money but just not nearly
enough of it.

~~~
reitanqild
Thanks!

I'd say they make enough money _to keep twitter running_ , just not as much as
shareholders hoped.

------
MrFurious
Twitter must not be saved. If its gone, other services more efficient
(probably) replace it, how facebook replace myspace and other services.

------
shmerl
Regarding Facebook. Monstrous, centralized entity which knows everything about
everyone? That's an anti-utopian example, not utopian one.

I'd prefer something like diaspora* to gain more traction. Open, decentralized
social network without pointless limitations on post length.

~~~
nof
Having played around with diaspora* (awful name), I don't think it can replace
Facebook, unfortunately. Like Twitter it doesn't rely on people's real names
nor are there good options for chat or making private or public groups or
events. However, it could potentially be a good replacement for twitter. We
need a good decentralized social network that has good design all around,
code, gui, ux etc. which is hard to find atm. Ello is also quite nice, but not
free, open and decentralized as diaspora which is a deal breaker for me when
discussing new social media services.

Btw, could anyone enlighten me on why jabber (xmmp?) never took off in any
major way? It seems nice?

~~~
shmerl
diaspora* doesn't prevent you from using real names, as well as it doesn't
force you to use them. That's exactly the point!

XMPP was sabotaged by major IM participants not using it. Especially Google.
They first were pushing XMPP a lot, but later betrayed the whole effort.

~~~
nof
Yes I like that you can choose whatever name you want, but ask your family
members or old friends from school how they use Facebook. Being enable to find
old friends and connect with far relatives is a huge reason for why Facebook
is so popular. I am having a hard time time figuring out how to solve this
problem if there aren't any constraints, culture or expectations for using
real names. Maybe it's just a matter if time. Online aliases is more second
nature to the coming generations. And still, the group and chat thing is very
important imho. That's why I asked about XMPP. Would love if we could get a
modern chat system as widely and universally used as email.

~~~
GrinningFool
Thing is, people who want to be found will use their real or well-known names.
Those who don't, won't - no matter what rules a given service wants to impose.

------
whywhywhywhy
Someone with nearly 30K followers _would_ feel this way.

Can't say I see that much that needs saving as an average user of the service.
I'd actually rather it crumble and see what someone more competent can do in
the space.

------
m0llusk
This is contemptible garbage. The author implies engineers do not improve the
world, but he is not about to go without cars or washing machines or credit.
This current election was going to be difficult even for a moderate Republican
to win, but this guy got emotional over the coverage therefore it was poignant
to him and relevant to his argument. Twitter has so little to contribute that
much of what he says is an apology for the unavoidable abuse that saturates
the medium. This kind of article is why so little is lost in flushing
traditional journalism down the toilet.

~~~
sanderjd
> This kind of article is why so little is lost in flushing traditional
> journalism down the toilet.

This seems like a non-sequitur. What does this article have to do with
traditional journalism?

------
rkv
>What is the evidence of this? Even if "truth" follows misinformation on
Twitter, there's so much noise, how do you find it?

Do you use twitter? I see a lot of misinformation and rumors started by
"journalists" which gain a lot of popularity but seemingly disapear once the
true source confirms or denies said claims. And it is easy to navigate this on
twitter. I'm mainly talking about sports or entertainment news.

With other forms of media the turnaround time is no where near as fast to (1)
notify the source and (2) have the original poster edit their article.

------
kuhidarwin
Don't worry, even if Twitter die, there will be another better product to take
over.

------
dkarapetyan
People in general are prone to looking for messianic saviors. I think it is
wired into the generic brain circuitry. Good things in general require
consistent hard work and effort and just general humanity.

Neither twitter nor facebook embody any of those things. Both are machines for
turning clicks peppered by "original content" into money. The author should
look elsewhere for the messiah.

------
sergiotapia
Saudi Money assured it's destruction - Twitter will die and become the "AOL
Keyword" of the twenty-tens.

------
vladimir-y
I still do use RSS and it works well for me.

~~~
nof
Indeed. Feedly does a nice job of presenting rss items. I actually feel lucky
that websites are still using rss.

~~~
r3bl
I believe that this has more has to do with it being built into almost all
CMS's than it being a conscious decision.

I remember creating a couple of years back a simple script where you input a
subdomain or a top level domain and it would try loading the most common feed
locations (like /rss, /feed etc.) and returns the location of the feed if it
gets 200 as a response. All I had to do was to check for like 10 different
locations (think: one or two for every major CMS) and it worked in like 98% of
the time.

------
minimuffins
> The tech industry is now producing its own magnates, who are following the
> Rockefeller playbook. See Mark Zuckerberg giving $100 million to the Newark
> school district, or Chris Hughes buying the New Republic

It might be worth noting that both were notorious as abject failures.

------
visarga
I tried reading the replies to a post on Twitter recently. It was a medium-
long list. The UI was atrocious, unstable and plain inferior to putting plain
text on an empty page. It's just frustrating. What are they on?

------
cinquemb
One thing I find really great about twitter as a platform is the data they
have available from devs/users who check in their oauth keys on public repos
which one can use to get very accurate detailed information from accounts and
tweets/retweets like getting the gps coords/conducting sentiment/graph
analysis without being rate limited or having to sign onto any of their terms
coupled with the "public" nature of twitter which just isn't there anymore
with facebook.

------
drivingmenuts
That's great, but if Twitter can't pay it's own way, then bin it.

The argument hasn't really been strongly focused on whether or not Twitter is
useful (it's not useful for me, but YMMV). The major problem has been "How
does Twitter make money to stay in business?"

You can't ask investors to keep tossing money down the Tweet-hole without
getting something for their money.

------
gavinpc
Tonight is not the night to apologize for this sewer.

------
retrogradeorbit
There's nothing new, or inherently tech about any of this. It started long
before the Internet was widespread. I recommend the author reads "Flat Earth
News" by Nick Davies.

------
debacle
A-thing-like-Twitter must be saved, but Twitter probably isn't it, unless
someone like Google buys it and gives it to the world for free.

------
st3v3r
Even if Twitter itself is not saved, whatever springs up in it's place is
likely going to have similar problems with harassment.

------
MustardTiger
Twitter is 100% opposed to free speech, and have stated policy that they
censor views they do not like. There is nothing there to save for the sake of
free speech. If you want some form of "social media" with free speech, you'll
have to make it (and make it popular).

~~~
a_imho
You are right, but I don't think free speech is considered a pro feature in
making services popular right now.

~~~
MustardTiger
I don't think it is either. But the post is under the misconception that
twitter should be saved because it offers a free speech alternative to the
other social media outlets.

------
Macsenour
radical idea: save it by focusing on what people use it for, ignoring the
trolling that you want to go away anyway. Question is, is there a business
model for that?

Fast news, breaking news events, what else?

------
saintwind
Or, you know, let it suck for awhile and we get some competition.

------
tn13
Twitter has been pretty rubbish curation policies and also engages in
censorship of worst kind. The activists I know and follow already are looking
for alternatives.

------
throwaway23421
remember digg? the internet will move on.

------
mentat2737
Twitter will be absorbed by a big one (possibly Google), so no need for this
kind of posts.

And if it dies, let it be. Another one will come up.

------
M_Grey
Oh please. Twitter is not fundamental to discourse, it's mostly an open sewer
along with the vast majority of social media.

------
SixSigma
Saudi Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal, no thanks.

------
hackaflocka
Via Twitter I have asked clarificatory questions to some of the top authors
(Taleb was one), journalists and programmers in the world.

Most of them responded.

~~~
detaro
Yes, that's something Twitter is pretty good at. E-mailing random people feels
more intrusive to me, and blog comments or similar channels aren't always
available or appropriate (although Twitter certainly is to blame for at least
some of that)

------
muad
Too big to fail.

------
sean_patel
Twitter was doomed from the day it started, when it imposed the 140 character
limit on what you got to say to the "world".

I mean how can anyone have a meaningful conversation or make a point in 140
characters __or less? The only person capable of doing the latter ( "making a
point") is the Republican Candidate for President - Donald J Trump i.e.
@RealDonaldTrump - and what does that tell you?

( * = Unpleasant side-effects of the 140 character limit include 1) "longer
tweet" sites and services that would link a 140+ character statement to their
site, so you go elsewhere to read it and 2) celebs and influencers sending a
series of tweets 1 after another, and the media and others have to piece them
together painfully in order to make any sense of the tweets.

~~~
nikatwork
Pleasant side-effects include forcing a clear cogent point by eschewing excess
verbiage. I personally find the 140 limit a useful antidote to the waffling
academia trained me to employ in my writing.

~~~
sean_patel
says the guy who made his point with 199 characters.

~~~
nikatwork
HN is neither twitter nor a blog.

