
Linux team approves new terminology, bans terms like 'blacklist' and 'slave' - kiyanwang
https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-team-approves-new-terminology-bans-terms-like-blacklist-and-slave/
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sz4kerto
dupe

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23810780](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23810780)

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neatze
Is chess master also racially charged word ?

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leonheart208
I don't think so. They aren't a master because of a chess slave. It's a title
earned in a "fair" championship, as opposed to a title of ownership/dominion
over the defeated players.

Another parallel would be a master's degree (there is no slave's degree),
given to someone that attained knowledge in a field (as opposed to "enslaving"
the knowledge).

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neatze
Chess master literally dominates most if not all ranked players below master
level.

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celticninja
But the other levels are not know as slaves.

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neatze
Seems like you implying slave is another N world, I think I get this aspect,
but then what about colors of chess pieces ?

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manicdee
That argument is pretty old and stale.

[https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/06/24/taxpayer-
funde...](https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/06/24/taxpayer-funded-radio-
debate-chess-is-racist-because-white-moves-first/)

[https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/racism-in-chess-
whi...](https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/racism-in-chess-white-moves-
first)

~~~
neatze
Can you please elaborate, because if chess colors have nothing to do with
racism then how does master/slave and white/black list is ?

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manicdee
Master/Slave is quite explicitly racist given the context of European
colonisation of the “western world” (mostly fuelled by slave labour, and most
of that cohort was forcibly extracted from Africa and non-European origins).

Blacklists have recently become a target because of the connotation that black
is bad and white is good. It’s that simple.

In Chess (had you read the documents I linked) you would know that there is no
requirement that white move first, or even that the side be black and white —
I had one set of azure and orange stones, and another which was Elves vs
Dwarves. The only requirement is that the two set be different so you can tell
which pieces are yours or your opponents.

~~~
neatze
Applied context that fits your narrative is not sufficient justification for
action, and if it is then black/white pieces should be changed also, as you
pointed out this your self, black/white - good/bad. Furthermore terms
literally applied same way on chess as master/slave in technology, and
importantly both terms are applied on inanimate entities. Words pawn is
offensive world when applied to people, same as sheep. We are not changing
this words, but I guess you are arguing that because world slave through
history has only meaning of person that is controlled by another person it is
a bad word and should not be used. But then word, master, kings, queens are
equally bad words and should be banned also, as is pawn. I am not philologist
nor willing to put effort in my own research, but if I had to guess there are
many unacceptable words by such unreasonable standards.

I am not sure what would you like me to see in links you provided, since both
discussions are in agreement with what I am saying here to a large degree.

I am not sure how you can't see that changing names do not change actions,
master/slave will be an action does not matter what terms you use, and how it
is wrong as long as it applies on inanimate entities, is beyond my
understanding. Furthermore, I do not think word slave should be forgotten, it
should be healthy reminder of how evil we where, can be in future, and that
slavery exists today.

I am sure you would agree; that it is ignorant behavior forgetting or
suppressing an issue, instead of making issue more visible to attack it
directly.

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nmpennypacker
So is it wrong to use a master branch now? If so, it'll be interesting to see
how Git(*) responds to this.

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mathieuh
GitHub are changing master to main, lots of big and small open source projects
have already done so/are planning to do so
[https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/15/github_replaces_maste...](https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/15/github_replaces_master_with_main/)

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andy_ppp
Sigh, really? Is this stuff really about race or is it just a terminology used
to express ideas - I really don't feel policing of language this way helps
make important changes in society that need to be addressed more likely. These
sort of things are at worst a distraction and at best likely to result in the
opposite of what people want and leads to resentment of fundamentally good
causes.

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chadcmulligan
My wife used to say that a lot of the words were sexist and violent in
programming - e.g. when I talked about killing a child process, I never
thought about it, but some do it seems.

(I've also had women say, they'd never become programmers - its to competitive
and macho), to be more inclusive language means something to many people. I'd
feel silly for example if instead of saying fork a process, we say we nurture
a child process. I can't speak to race - grumpy old white guy, but I can see
how it would matter.

~~~
david38
Girls in school avoid CS because the dudes themselves were assholes. I saw
this firsthand countless times.

Once critical mass is reached (enough girls where they don’t feel like
outsiders) the machismo calms down. Not once have I ever heard a girl in class
say anything about the language. It’s always been about the behavior of the
boys.

