
Fab in India: India is trying to create an indigenous chip-making industry - yarapavan
https://www.economist.com/asia/2019/10/03/india-is-trying-to-create-an-indigenous-chip-making-industry
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yarapavan
Context: The designs are based on RISC-V ISA
([https://riscv.org](https://riscv.org)). When India looks east, it sees
Huawei, a Chinese tech giant, being cut off from American-made components as a
result of the trade war. To the west, it sees its most talented engineers
working in Silicon Valley. By pouring millions of dollars into Indian-made
semiconductors, India’s government hopes to solve both problems at once.

The open source academic project mentioned in the article is 'Project Shakti'
at IIT Madras.

Link: [https://shakti.org.in/](https://shakti.org.in/)

~~~
Aperocky
Best of luck to India. I sincerely hope that RISC-V will grant them the
ability to produce commodity grade (even if low end) chips that can be
utilized with open source software system. The first such use may well be
industrial systems where OS and spec are not the major concern.

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madez
I'm very excited about India's ambitions. It would not only be meaningful for
India, but for many people around the world. We are lacking open chips, and
project Shakti is on a trajectory to solve a part of that.

I wonder when GCC learns to use the source code of the hardware along with the
source code of the software to optimize the binary with full knowledge of the
system.

~~~
analognoise
We will never have competitive chips that are open down to the transistor and
process level.

Down to the RTL, sure. But a truly open competitive chip, never ever.

You might get one on some ancient process from 20 years ago, which will be
handily outclassed in every single metric except openness, which people make
noise about but don't actually pay for (so no business case).

~~~
happycube
A ~20 year old process... that'd be 250nm or 180nm, which is Just Fine for
many microcontrollers, if not the new 600mhz-1ghz Cortex M7's...

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analognoise
If the 180nm design is good enough, and migrated it to a new process, you'd
get more chips per wafer.

Hence never competitive. "It's open!" doesn't make a business decide to buy a
million and put them in a product - cost, features, availability, support do.

Nobody cares about "open silicon" \- it's only spouted by people who don't
understand actual electronics, or if they do, they certainly don't understand
the economics.

It will never happen. If it did, it wouldn't be useful. It makes zero sense.

~~~
ghettoimp
From a corporate perspective, I think you're absolutely right, this kind of
thing will never be profitable.

From a state perspective, being reliant on other countries for your electronic
may seem like such a threat to your ability to remain sovereign that it's
worth developing your own, even if you are generations behind the latest and
greatest.

~~~
analognoise
True! But do you think they'd open up that process?

Hell no!

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xvilka
I hope they will be more involved in the open-source electronic design
software than other countries. Software like LibreCAD[1] and FreeCAD[2],
Yosys[3] and Symbiflow[4], Chisel/FIRRTL[5], OpenROAD initiative[6],
Degate[7], and many others.

[1] [https://librecad.org/](https://librecad.org/)

[2] [https://www.freecadweb.org/](https://www.freecadweb.org/)

[3] [http://www.clifford.at/yosys/](http://www.clifford.at/yosys/)

[4] [https://symbiflow.github.io/](https://symbiflow.github.io/)

[5] [https://www.chisel-lang.org/](https://www.chisel-lang.org/)

[6] [https://theopenroadproject.org/](https://theopenroadproject.org/)

[7]
[https://github.com/nitram2342/degate](https://github.com/nitram2342/degate)

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Iv
I really would like an alternative to Shenzhen for cheap manufacturing. Does
anyone here have experience with factories located elsewhere?

~~~
baybal2
Have experience in Vietnam. Some clients been asking for manufacturing there,
but often get surprised that it will both be harder and cost the more than in
China. Still some persist, and do that.

You have to effectively import everything from China, and just do final
assembly there. I see close to no point doing that when local inputs cannot
reach even 10% of the value.

~~~
Iv
Do you know if there is any decent plastic molding industry in Vietnam? I have
something that needs off the shelf electronics (may buy them in China) but
will have to meet manufacturers in person for the final assembly and plastic
casing, which on a small series is probably going to be a sizeable portion of
the cost (and seriously, that's more about ideology than cost anyway).

~~~
baybal2
Even ordinary quality level plastics parts can often be easier to import from
China there, moreover now. Even things like plastic bathtubs is a challenge at
the moment. Not many options for small businesses there other than to work
with garage factories, with all resulting complications.

I will be glad to get in touch with you if you really need to make it there,
and you are really ready to pay. For a project under $100k you will likely pay
a fee from 10% to 20%. Disclaimer, this is not a binding commercial offer

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neonate
[https://outline.com/E8CzrA](https://outline.com/E8CzrA)

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miohtama
What did make RISC-V a game changer? Why did not any open source chip enjoy
such a success before?

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BAReF00t
The question is: What will they do after, when Trump is gone, and his policiey
on Chinese imports anf foreign workers are gone with him?

I hope they hurry. Now’s the time!

