
San Francisco Bans Cashless Stores - latchkey
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Cashless-ban-FAQ-food-truck-amazon-go-no-cash-14373909.php
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kozak
I pay electronically almost everywhere, but I do recognize that cash payments
are a basic human right. Going 100% cashless opens doors to all sorts of
monopoly/distopia scenarios.

~~~
kgoltsov
Not to mention privacy issues. I like using Square, but now my email gets sent
around to any store I visit. Even with a regular credit card, they already get
my full name from any transaction.

Plus with cash, you've made the payment and you're done. You don't have to
check if the charge was correct, or if you bank account has enough money to
cover it, or if the purchase will affect your credit utilization
significantly.

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votepaunchy
> or if you bank account has enough money to cover it, or if the purchase will
> affect your credit utilization significantly

You’re still doing this with cash since you need to be certain to have
sufficient funds in bills and coins before making each payment. And there is
more safety in a high credit limit or checking balance than carrying large
quantities of cash.

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ummonk
Now can we please also stop the cops from confiscating cash if they find more
than a certain amount in a person’a vehicle? People shouldn’t be penalized for
using legal tender.

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CaptainZapp
I really don't mean to be glib, but really: Only in America.

Sure, you may have a hard time opening a bank account with half a million
unexplained cash, but just confiscate somebody's life savings, especially when
poor, unbanked and possibly black is a very American concept.

In any other civilized place the onus is on the authorities to prove that the
money is dirty. Not the other way 'round.

~~~
Pinckney
The UK does it too:

[https://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/apr/25/prostitution...](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/apr/25/prostitution-
police-ecp-gangs)

> In November 2008, 20 police officers broke down Finch's front door and
> searched her house, taking £700 from her purse that she says had been put
> aside to pay the mortgage. Her laptop computer, mobile phone, driving
> licence and passport were also taken. No receipt was given.

> Under the Proceeds of Crime Act, the police keep 25% of any assets
> confiscated from raids, the Crown Prosecution Service keeps another 25%, and
> the Inland Revenue the rest.

[http://prostitutescollective.net/wp-
content/uploads/2017/07/...](http://prostitutescollective.net/wp-
content/uploads/2017/07/Prostitution-What-You-Need-to-Know.pdf)

> The burden of proof is reversed so people have to prove that any money they
> have was not earned through “criminal activity”

~~~
lagilogi
OP specified civilized countries.

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_uy6i
Usually laughing at SF regulations - but this is eminently sensible - wish
they had added a printed receipt as well

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beatgammit
Can we get sales tax to be included in the price on the shelf? The main reason
I don't use cash is because I have having change, and sales tax always ends up
with me having odd change. In Oregon, I use cash a lot more often because
prices tend to avoid weird change.

Some restaurants include tax on the shelf price ($3 for hotdog instead of
$2.99 + tax or whatever), and if that were more common, I might forgo
credit/debit cards.

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ben_jones
I disagree that every store must accept cash. Life-impacting transactions such
as grocers and transportation sure, but if a ritzy boutique or Apple store
wants to make things more streamlined by only accepting card so be it. It’s
better as a customer.

I’m also wary of what I would consider to be ADA-styled protections for the
Homeless by forcing businesses to accommodate them in increasingly fringe ways
(IMO the rally cry for cash accepting stores WAS that it would hurt the
homeless otherwise). Already in San Francisco the homeless are not prosecuted
for petty crimes and receive free health services via frequent use of
emergency care facilities. I worry the increased privileges for the homeless
will attract more homeless to San Francisco, a city which has already proved
it cannot alleviate the problem.

~~~
CaptainZapp
You're free to open your cashless business anywhere else, where it's legal.

Just don't count me in as a customer. I may not even necessarilly pay cash.
But I try to avoid doing business with assholes.

And a _physical_ store not accepting cash is, in my book, pretty high on the
asshole scale.

edited to clarify: I'm not refering to the parent as an asshole, but to
physical busines' who won't accept cash.

If you still find this outlandish, downvote away.

~~~
borumpilot
In Amsterdam, the cashless option is for security reasons: too many violent, &
armed robberies on the smallest of shops. They need to protect their
employees, and since only the hardly visible police and criminals are armed:
what can you do?

As much as I dislike it (you will loose me as customer too), I understand
their logic.

~~~
CaptainZapp
What can I say? You definitely make a valid point.

Living in Zurich, I have to admit that such considerations don't really play a
role. But yeah, there are other places where even bus drivers get robbed.

As a side note: The famed coffee shops must have quite advanced logistics,
since they (at least I assume so) mostly deal in cash and present a juicy
target since there must be a lot of it.

It's weird: Nowadays I visit Amsterdam for museums and culture, not for coffee
shops. So what do I know? :)

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borumpilot
> Living in Zurich

I live in Bern, so I know what heavenly security feels like.

> The famed coffee shops must have quite advanced logistics

They do, but that starts with the (ridicules) law that (permited) coffeeshops
can not hold more then 500 grams of the stuff they sell at any given moment.
This means there is a constant flow of new material coming in from safe
houses, which are prime targets for rippers & pissed of police.

So the quite advanced logistics start there. Know where to hide your surplus,
protect it, transport it and on return take the money to a safe place.

> It's weird: Nowadays I visit Amsterdam for museums and culture

That dates you. The (Amsterdam) locals recognize 3 age & target groups. <25
coffeeshops, >25 Red light district, >35 the arts ;)

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aplummer
The problem here is that there isn’t a non-private-enterprise privacy
sensitive (although accessible with appropriate warrants etc) cashless money
system IMO.

Cash enables so many problems in the world I’ll be happy to see the end of it.

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tinus_hn
All that darned privacy! If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to
fear.

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aplummer
I’m saying it would need to be private, but still able to prevent money
laundering, payments for sex trafficking, drug trade, weapons trade.

I’m aware such a thing doesn’t exist and may never, but this would be the
ideal state IMO.

~~~
paulddraper
> it would need to be private, but still able to prevent money laundering

That's like the big screen TV that is small enough to for in your purse.

Let's not pretend both these things are possible.

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aplummer
I’m an optimist that it’s possible. There are systems that are private but for
legitimate government requirements with sensible public oversight. Maybe not
in your jurisdiction, that would vary more than just about anything.

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crb002
So they install one self pay cash box? Not a big deal, and probably required
for ADA. Not all seniors have access to electronic payment.

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mamon
Seniors or not, the most important thing to me is this: cash is issued by the
government, and can be used without incurring any additional cost. Credit
cards require you to sign contract with a bank, which is a private company,
that makes money on every transaction. Government should never force you to
sign a contract with a private entity, for any reason, so if they ever want us
to go cashless, then I would expect they provide government-issued, free of
charge credit/debit card for everyone first.

~~~
comex
But the law in question isn’t about the government requiring people to go
cashless; it’s about whether private businesses (stores) are allowed to
require their customers to go cashless.

