
Swift compiler crashes - epaga
https://github.com/practicalswift/swift-compiler-crashes
======
zx2c4
Maybe I could get on board with this if the compiler were open source. Why are
people so enthusiastic to give hours away for free to commercial projects?

~~~
melling
Because Swift will allow developers to build better apps on Apple's platforms.
The quicker Apple polishes Swift, the quicker the entire ecosystem benefits.

Sure, open source is ideal but there are benefits to helping Apple or
Microsoft, for example, improve their software.

~~~
valarauca1
>Because if I make the walled garden nicer, I'll live in a nicer walled
garden!

That's actually what you just said. Keeping is closed source, and reporting
bugs doesn't benefit the developer at all. It benefits Apple.

They may get the secondary effect of this becoming an employable skill,
someday, hopefully. But currently isn't, it almost is, but isn't (Judging from
the 4-5 swift posts I've seen on HN compared to dozens of js/java/ruby/etc.).

~~~
to3m
> You shouldn't report bugs you find in software you use on a daily basis.
> Those bugs are best left unfixed

A curious attitude!

~~~
valarauca1
No you shouldn't report bugs in closed source software you use. Because it has
no benefit for you, only for the company. Are you being paid to make their
product better? If their product failed you, find a new tool, don't fix
theirs.

Now this is an ideal. You can't live like this unless you're RMS. But it is
true nonetheless.

If my car breaks I don't submit a 25 page engineering report to Ford. I
replace the car, or fix the problem personally and move on. My job isn't to do
somebody else's job, especially when that person is paid more then me.

~~~
oddevan
Please never use my software.

> Because it has no benefit for you, only for the company.

Really?! Making a tool you use every day better has no benefit for you? Sure,
I can build my own text editor if I really wanted to, but I'd rather send a
bug report to BBEdit to fix a problem in an otherwise good product.

~~~
to3m
Yes, this is my attitude as well. A lot of the work I've done has required the
use of proprietary tools; you might not be getting paid to improve the tool,
but you are (presumably...) getting paid to produce a product, and if the tool
is getting in your way somehow then you need to do something about it!

Even if you don't bother to report usability issues or suggest improvements or
what have you, if you encounter a bug that's blocking progress, sitting on
your hands isn't going to help anybody.

(Of course, reporting it might not do much either ;) - but that's something
you need to find out on a vendor-by-vendor basis. Some are responsive.)

------
bluk
As just another app developer, I would like to thank the contributors for
volunteering their time to help us all out.

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rdsnsca
Swift 1.2 was released in Xcode 6.3 beta today.

PracticalSwift tweeted this :
[https://twitter.com/practicalswift/status/564919949995802624](https://twitter.com/practicalswift/status/564919949995802624)

"5043 crashes before Xcode 6.3 - 1314 crashes fixed (26 %) - 2896 crashes now
marked as dupes (57 %) + 10 regressions (0 %) = 843 left (17 %)"

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vinceyuan
It's very interesting project. It seems that many people are interested in
Swift. I am still using Objective-C for my App Store apps to avoid those kinds
of weird things.

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pepijndevos
why don't people just fix the compiler instead? Oh wait...

Cool project though. I hope Apple takes notice.

~~~
stefan_kendall3
Would you really want a frustrated hack from a sleep-deprived developer whose
main job is _not_ building compilers?

I'd rather have a team of people paid to work on the issues full time handle
the problems and build solutions, but maybe that's just me.

~~~
brudgers
Just to be circumspect, Apple's main business isn't building compilers. Their
business unit which does so appears to derive some of its mandate from
management's aversion to copyleft licensing. The business case for the Swift
compiler is not to be the best alternative in a diverse market place but to
provide tooling better than objective-C for bespoke iOS and OSX development.
It falls somewhere between an inhouse application and a product for the open
market.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that. I am only extending the line
of reasoning in the comment up an abstraction layer.

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eatonphil
Are there any good (not too ranty) posts on the state of the quality,
usability, overall viability of the Swift compiler right now?

~~~
archagon
I've used Swift to make a basic keyboard framework[1] and I've found it to be
extremely crashy and unstable, even in the latest versions. Also, certain
Xcode features don't work in it (such as refactoring). Incredibly frustrating.
With that said, I love the language, so it's almost worth the pain.

[1]: [https://github.com/archagon/tasty-imitation-
keyboard](https://github.com/archagon/tasty-imitation-keyboard)

