

Did Google just admit Apple's Siri is the future of search? - stritar
http://stritar.net/Post/Did-Google-Just-Admit-Apple-s-Siri-Is-The-Future-Of-Search.aspx

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jcollins1991
(ignoring the translation to a representation a machine can understand) asking
when the best time to sow crops requires domain knowledge and lots of
analysis, asking to be called upon a certain event is simply implementing a
rule.

Sure, something like Siri could be incredibly useful in the future if we can
architect it properly, but comparing the current "personal assistant" to a
knowledge engine that can answer any possible question is like comparing a
Wright Brothers plane to a modern fighter jet.

TLDR: author goes far overboard with his conclusion, nothing new ...

~~~
stritar
I think the biggest challenge for software is understanding the question, not
actually giving results to a query.

Do you remember Watson and Jeopardy? All errors it made came from not knowing
what it was asked.

Have you tried Siri? It really can give quite surprising responses to complex
questions.

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buster
Google Voice Search has been around well before Siri, it's not news that
Google is moving in that direction and voice search has been available on my
phones for a long time now (not only from Google). Just because Apple markets
yet another technology as new and unprecedented doesn't mean it is, sorry.

Just for you to know:
[https://market.android.com/search?q=voice+search&so=1...](https://market.android.com/search?q=voice+search&so=1&c=apps)
Most of the apps there are older than Siri.

Also: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGbYVvU0Z5s> from what i can tell (i
neither use voice search nor have an iphone), this looks essentially the same
..

~~~
potatolicious
Siri _isn't_ voice search. It's capable of it "Google [insert keywords here]",
but that's not its main selling point, nor its main use case.

Siri is unprecedented (in a mass market product, anyways) because it combines
NLP with actually _doing_ things, and moves away from the awkward "memorize
these bunch of keywords in this order" voice control systems of the past.

"Schedule my dentist appointment next Monday at 1." is a much better way of
input than the previous status quo of "Calendar. Add Event. Description.
Dentist Appointment. Date. December 12. Time. One P.M."

It's weird that people consistently harps on Apple for "marketing yet another
technology as new and unprecedented" when it isn't - and then bring up a
completely different product to "prove" their point.

~~~
buster
Can you point to me how exactly Siri works?

I bet it's merely comprehending key words and putting together a search or
action that is most likely. Siri doesn't really understand language (else you
can point me to proof). In the first case it's not much more then Google Voice
Search. I can also write texts, call people, search internet for information
on my mobile. Call it what you want, it's Voice Search.

The difference here is: Apples marketing.

~~~
potatolicious
[sigh] This is somewhat typically "engineer". Because the two products are
built upon similar base technologies, they are the "same thing", and any
differences are nothing more than "marketing".

Siri doesn't "understand" language, it _is_ , to the best of my knowledge
based on a probabilistic solution. That's really where the similarities end.

The innovation here isn't the NLP part, or the probabilistic context
determination part. It's the part that ties it into actual concrete actions -
it books appointments for me, manages my wakeup times, smartly geofences
reminders, etc etc, without me having to touch any UI.

It is in some ways a good reflection of Apple's product philosophy - take
existing individual bits and link them into a compelling end-to-end solution.
Music store? Link to your music library management. Then link it to the
playback device itself. Voice recognition? Link it to contextual
"understanding". Then link it to actually perform device actions. Each piece
is somewhat unremarkable on its own, but string it together right and
customers respond.

Sure, you can use Siri to do much of the same things Google Voice Search does
- directions, showtimes, text search, etc, but that's not really the part that
people are clamoring about.

There's a certain segment of our community that seem to be able to stare into
every single Apple product, every single record-breaking profit quarter, every
single raving review, and then be able to say with a perfect deadpan: "it's
all just marketing". I suspect this demographic has a high intersection with
the "it's just a big iPod" iPad crowd.

~~~
buster
No, you don't get it.

One question: Do you think a Google Search only searches for those keywords
without taking other factors in consideration? Based on what i can find
(checked the source of some plugins of Siri Proxy) Siri is basically just
Voice recognition, not "magic". You can easily fake "intelligence" when
binding keywords to actions. Basically google search does the same. What's the
difference? The marketing.

I'd say those two and Wolfram Alpha are prime examples of this.

A nice example i can show you with Wolfram Alpha. As a marketer i would tell
you how supernice and innovative Wolfram Alpha is and that you can talk to it
and then show you this:

[http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=How+is+the+weather+in+B...](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=How+is+the+weather+in+Berlin+right+now%3F)

Wow, right? Alphas UNDERSTANDS you! It's awesome, buy it! But:

[http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Don%27t+tell+me+the+wea...](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Don%27t+tell+me+the+weather+of+Berlin+right+now)

Now, that's simple negation that is not understood. It's easy to fix that.
It's still not "intelligence" or whatever Apple is calling Siri. It's simple
keyword based approach. Unless someone proves to me that the iPhone has the
computing power of really understanding humans, it's old technology in a new
(and great) design with massive marketing. As always.

Once you see that, you'll see that voice searching for "weather Berlin" and
asking "How is the weather in Berlin?" is basically the same. The first one is
just faster to execute (type or say). Only with the second example you can go
all crazy and tell people that you reinvented the whole business.

edit:

That said, what is wrong with this link is not how Siri works or who is best
or whatever. It's the notion of "Apple was right all along, Google not!!"
which is just stupid seeing for how long Google was investing in Voice
Recognition. It never was a matter of who is wrong, both companies invested in
this technology. Why does it alyways come down to "Apple is right" or "Apple
has invented X and Company Y just copies it!", it's ridiculous, like the
patent law. Let those companies just build and sell their stuff but don't do
all this "Apple was first!" shit, it rarely is. Most products of most
companies are really genuine!

~~~
potatolicious
No, _you_ don't get it. I never claimed that Siri was "magic", nor does anyone
besides the most lay of users. I'll easily concede that they're both based on
very similar technologies - oh wait, if you actually read my original post, I
already did.

The user-facing implementations are remarkably different - and the extension
that Siri made to the original concept (that Apple then acquired) are both
novel and innovative - something you seem rather happy to dismiss as mere
"marketing".

> _"Basically google search does the same. What's the difference? The
> marketing."_

Can Google Voice Search respond to "wake me up for my morning meeting"? Or
"add a dentist appointment tomorrow at 3?". _That_ is the novel part of Siri,
not the voice recognition part - which as you correctly point out was already
a solved problem. The novel bit was taking this gooey, nice NLP stuff that we
have now, and plugging it into places where traditionally horrible voice
control software has been (or places where the shittiness of voice control
prevented a real implementation).

But of course, if it's not algorithmically innovative, it's not innovative,
period, right?

> _"Wow, right? Alphas UNDERSTANDS you! It's awesome, buy it! But:"_

Why are you stuck on this? I never claimed Siri "understands" you, nor does
anyone on HN. We _know_ it's a probabilistic solution...

> _"The first one is just faster to execute (type or say). Only with the
> second example you can go all crazy and tell people that you reinvented the
> whole business."_

Ah yes, another "engineer" moment. Because we know users are just _dying_ to
say fewer words to their device. Oh drats, if only there was a way to shave
fractions of a second off voice dictation! I will gladly interrupt my natural
mode of sentence synthesis in exchange for an abrupt series of disconnected
keywords!

If you look at Google's search logs, you will see that a large segment of the
population are _still_ typing full sentences into search engines, despite the
fact that it probably _worsens_ their results. This is how "normal" people
approach technology, and this is how normal people compose thoughts and
sentences.

How dare Apple! How dare they make technology wrap around people's default
mode of thinking instead of forcing them to adapt to the input mode that's
optimal for the underlying technology! The nerve!

This is why Apple succeeds, and this is why the seemingly infinite horde of
Apple-haters don't get it. All of the cool algorithms in the world won't save
you from bad usability, or incorrectly exposing your interface to users. Siri
took a technology that already existed and extended it into a space that
nobody was in at the time - one that users find very compelling, and in some
ways solved a problem users didn't know they had. To then turn around and
blithely and smugly dismiss this as mere "marketing" is absurd, especially if
your only support is that it's "built on the same technology". Need I remind
you that we had touch screens for _years_ before the iPhone rolled around, and
that we were building PCs long before Windows hit the market. Yet the effect
of those two products on the market has been undeniable - even though both
were just extensions from existing ideas.

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stritar
Please take a look at an older Siri video, which shows its capabilities of
understanding. Perhaps it will help you understand this goes beyond voice
control and asking simple questions such as "Where is" or "How much is".
<http://mashable.com/2011/10/03/iphone-5-assistant/>

