
Prison without guards or weapons in Brazil - dvdhnt
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-44056946
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paulojean
The problem to think in those `Apac`s as a better way to the prisional system
in Brazil is that it cant be take in the whole country.

It's easier to keep the desired inmate's behaviour in an Apac because they
select who they want (so, they can avoid someone who might bring trouble, an
option that the entire system doesn't has); another point is the inmate's fear
in going back to a "normal" prison.

I live in Brazil, and discussions related to Apac already happened in some
groups that fight for humans right, and I've never seen one of them thinking
in Apac as a solution to our prisional system.

~~~
vidarh
But conversely, in Norway at least the possibility of being transfered to open
prisons like this is a motivation for many prisoners to behave better as well.
It doesn't need to solve the problem alone.

~~~
ams6110
So motivation to avoid prison altogether doesn't work (given the need for
prisons) but prisoners _will_ be motivated by the possibility of transfer to a
better prison? Not sure.

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Cthulhu_
When you're caught you're caught, when you're in you'll want to make your stay
as pleasant as possible.

Crime reporting and solving rates are relatively low, so most people get away
with it [1]; only half the crimes are reported, and of those, less than half
again (for violent crimes) or less than a fifth (for property theft) are
solved. Statistically speaking you have less than 10% chance of getting
arrested, and depending on the crime, even less chance of getting convicted.

So yeah, your odds of not going to jail when committing a crime are pretty
good.

[1]: [http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/03/01/most-
violent...](http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/03/01/most-violent-and-
property-crimes-in-the-u-s-go-unsolved/)

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jopsen
Can't help but dream that private prisons could do like this and save money on
guards, cooking, property, etc.. housing aggressive prisoners have got to be
expensive, compared to housing non-aggressive ones.

I guess that either (a) regulation mandates security / poor conditions, or (b)
nobody is quite crazy enough to try and make money by disrupting the private
prison business :)

~~~
jernfrost
In Norway, we tend to follow a non-aggressive approach to prison and despite
much higher standards than say in the US, the cost per prisoner isn't
significantly higher.

Prison guards in Norway are essentially university educated social workers.
American prison guards from what I've read are essentially just guys with a
stick. They just get a couple of weeks of training.

Guards in Norway work closely with prisoners and do activities with them and
get to know them. This leads to lower levels of aggression. I've seen accounts
of other European visiting Norwegian prisons remarking how much more calm the
atmosphere is.

When you lock up people and treat them as animals you create anger, resentment
and aggression which they take out on each other or the guards if given the
opportunity.

I believe this is a principle which applies to all walks of life including how
you raise children. Children who live under strict regimes which are heavily
focused on punishment don't act well. They easily become violent and lack self
control.

If there is always an overwhelming force present to punish every transgression
you make, all you learn is to be behave when you are under threat. When that
control is gone you have no ability to control yourself.

~~~
assblaster
How do Norway prisons deal with formation of gangs, which are essentially
small businesses that seek to "disrupt" the prison economy?

~~~
jasonmaydie
Norway has a relatively low level of crime, it's probably a factor in their
successful prison system

~~~
EliRivers
And their successful prison system is a factor in the relatively low level of
crime.

~~~
assblaster
But why aren't gangs forming in Norway? Lack of poverty? Lack of substantial
immigration?

In other words, why isn't MS13 infiltrating Norway, if there's no competition
for their illegal activities?

In the United States, for instance, there's a huge market for gang formation,
and gangs thrive despite constant fighting for territory.

~~~
ams6110
What's Norway's current stance on immigration? Depending on that, they may be
finding out about gangs soon.

~~~
trhway
Norway immigrant population - 16.7%, US - under 15% (incl. "illegal"
immigrants).

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jnordwick
If this were done to the least violent, least likely to be a problem inmates,
it would be largely white collar criminals.

I wonder how people would feel about that given name liked Club Fed are
already thrown around.

~~~
jdc
How's that attitude been working out for them?

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oxide
What a wonderful story. Nobody flees from love, indeed.

This is an idea with tangible value. Not just for Brazil, either.

~~~
raverbashing
But (not) fleeing from discipline is not such a guaranteed win.

This model is good for non-violent inmates, but it doesn't work for all cases.

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trisimix
Great, too bad due process is a joke in Brazil.

~~~
dvdhnt
Not disagreeing with you, I’m just American and uninformed. Can you elaborate?

~~~
matheusmoreira
It is horribly inefficient and takes way too long. Even if a judge decides
something, people may simply appeal to a higher court. This can go on and on
until they run out of either courts or money. I've read about legal cases that
began in 2002 and only finished in 2013. It is likely that the defendant will
be free during this time. Also, prison sentences are 30 years maximum.

American legal system seems to move much faster. They apparently encourage
people to make deals and bargains rather than risk legal defeat.

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jasonmaydie
Everything is perfect with the absence of conflict. Throw conflict in the mix
and it falls apart quite quickly.

