
There are two kinds of people in the world - peter123
http://cdixon.org/2011/04/26/there-are-two-kinds-of-people-in-the-world/
======
danilocampos
Dichotomies are such a cliched way of getting attention. In this case, though,
it was barely necessary.

The thesis: "People who risk things to create are neat."

Okay, cool, just roll with that. I completely agree! But this rhetorical
nonsense where we divide up the world between people who found a business and
those who don't is so trite as to be exhausting. In truth, there are dozens or
hundreds of types of people in the world. Some are starving, some exist under
the thumb of dictatorial thugs, some are oblivious to greater than bronze age
technology.

A precious few win the ovarian lottery in such a way that they can start a
business.

Or not.

Now, just because rhetoric isn't strictly true doesn't mean you shouldn't use
it. But when it's strictly _dull_ , relative to the nuanced and fascinating
reality it supersedes, meh, you're just posting for the sake of posting. Do
better for your readers and yourself.

Creating an "other" is the oldest, cheapest tribalist trick in the book. Maybe
you score some points with everyone on the side you're glorifying but no one
learns anything.

~~~
satori99
Agreed. This post is disapointing and not a worthy HN submission IMHO. Even
putting aside the silly title and rhetoric, the idea behind the post is still
lame.

I can give up just about any web site I use daily with little disruption to my
life. No matter how much blood sweat and tears it's creator has put on the
line.At the end of the day, they are just web apps. They are not important to
me, like say, my garbageman coming every week is important to me.

To classify people who start companies that build web sites as being superior
to others in any way at all is laughable. (I make web applications for a
living).

~~~
_pius
_To classify people who start companies that build web sites as being superior
to others in any way at all is laughable. (I make web applications for a
living)._

He didn't mention "companies that build web sites" or call anyone superior.

~~~
vacri
"He didn't mention "companies that build web sites" _or call anyone superior._
"

You need to practice reading between the lines. That's pretty much what the
entire post was about.

~~~
_pius
_You need to practice reading between the lines. That's pretty much what the
entire post was about._

No.

Believe it or not, there are entrepreneurs who do other things besides make
web sites. If you think this post is specifically about web startups, you're
missing the point. Moreover, attacking it on that basis makes zero sense.

Meanwhile, you and some others are projecting the "superiority" bit onto the
article. The fact is, people have pretty much zero idea what it means to start
a company until they've actually done it. Doesn't mean founders are
necessarily _superior_ , but it is what it is.

I don't understand why this is controversial. I don't get defensive when
people say "either you've run a marathon or you haven't" or "either you've
climbed Mount Everest or you haven't." I haven't ... so what? I don't get
flustered and try to deny that they've got a shared experience that not many
others will fully understand.

~~~
vacri
I wasn't talking about the website part, hence the partial emphasis of the
quote.

Who said I was being defensive? I haven't started a company, but I watched my
mother self-start a bookshop and publishing small business while raising me,
so I'm aware of the risks.

The article is basically saying that self-starters have something no-one else
has, and that makes them superior.

Thing is, he isn't saying "either you've run a marathon or not", but "either
you've taken these amazing risks _and that says something about you as a
person_ ". Which is fine (as I said, I'm not defensive about it) but it is
pretty strongly implying superiority. Given the number of "hear hear!"
comments to the post, it's pretty clear that the crowd also thought so.

Hell, even people who would utter something like "two types of people: either
you have or haven't run a marathon/everest" are implying some form of
superiority. The same as the vietnam vet who says "You weren't there, maaan!".
It doesn't mean that the comment is _invalid_ , but I'm just recognising that
the article is self-congratulatory.

------
harisenbon
Is it just me, or do other people get put off by the "There are two kinds of
people in the world" articles where there is an implied moral superiority
simply from what you may have or have not done.

For any 2-way choice or state of being, there of course will only be two types
of people in the world.

"There are 2 kinds of people in the world: Those with 5 dollars in their
pocket, and those without."

"There are 2 kinds of people in the world: Those who are me, and those who
aren't."

"There are 10 kinds of people in the world: Those who know binary, and those
who don't."

------
keeptrying
Unless you've actually started a company, this will sound like a bunch of
crap.

I think other quantum leaps would be having your first kid, facing a really
big fear, fixing the relationship you have with members of your immediate
family (if you havent talked in a while), going out kiteboarding/windsurfing
in huge wind and waves when you've never done that before ... etc.

The experience gives you a new perspective on yourself and the world around
you that you just cannot fathom from the place you were before you made the
leap.

~~~
danilocampos
> Unless you've actually started a company, this will sound like a bunch of
> crap.

My mom, with little more than a GED, started the business which fed me for
most of my childhood. I cut the salary cord and tried to make a go of it
myself at 24 years old, facing down much fear. I failed. It was fucking
awesome and I'd change nothing.

So with that experience in mind: it's still sounding like crap, per my post
above. I appreciate the celebration but would prefer to share it with many
other kinds of people, not least of which the few decent people who made it
their business to teach me important things.

There are many kinds of people in the world and this is hardly the most
interesting razor to use to divide them up.

~~~
keeptrying
> There are many kinds of people in the world and this is hardly the most
> interesting razor to use to divide them up.

I think people who start something and really go all in, they are really worth
celebrating.

Infact more than that - they need encouragement and in this piece Dixon lets
them know that they should try even though they may be surrounded by smug
detractors.

~~~
danilocampos
> I think people who start something and really go all in, they are really
> worth celebrating.

I think that too. But I also think that it isn't dichotomous and treating it
so is cheap writing. This isn't a celebration so much as it's a creation of an
"other".

Also worth celebrating? Teachers. Epidemiologists. Successful parents. Fred
Rogers.

Celebrate people, by all means, but don't let's pretend that there only two
kinds of people and only one is worth celebrating. Humanity is so much more
interesting than that. Celebrate entrepreneurs on their own merits without
false divisions and the resulting essay will be so much more interesting -
guaranteed.

~~~
_pius
Not sure what your point is. I'm not threatened by the fact that I don't know
anything about, say, fighting a fire.

Either you've risked your life jumping into a burning building to save lives
or you haven't. It's true ... and I haven't. I'm not defensive about it and I
don't feel like someone who says that is denigrating what I do for a living.

Sure, the "either you've X or you haven't" construction is a little trite, but
so what? Why are you so bothered by it? Seems like threadcrapping all over an
inspirational article.

~~~
danilocampos
> Why are you so bothered by it? Seems like threadcrapping all over an
> inspirational article.

Anything worth doing is worth doing well. So there's that. And myopia bothers
me — this article smacks a bit of the Valley/tech circlejerking that ignores
the larger world, which is exhausting after awhile. And I'm gratified to not
be alone in that; this thing was flagged so hard it dropped like a stone. So
there's hope.

> Either you've risked your life jumping into a burning building to save lives
> or you haven't.

And an essay with that angle would be similarly lame, I assure you. It's just
an awful thrust because it's not interesting. It's an obvious statement that
leads to hagiography through false contrast. Ultimately, that's a disservice
to the exalted subject because you could make the point much more effectively
by simply sharing authentic enthusiasm.

------
acangiano
There are two kinds of people in the world. Those who mostly consume, and
those who mostly create. I committed myself to being the latter. How you go
about doing that is just details.

~~~
noonespecial
And I've found that those who mostly consume mostly busy themselves in getting
themselves put in charge of the ones who mostly create.

------
rewind
There's some negativity about this post, but in no way is he bashing non-
entrepreneurs. He's just saying if you have the guts to put it all on the
line, then win or lose, that's still a big deal, and don't worry about the
non-entrepreneurial critics.

------
rhizome
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who think there are two
kinds of people in the world, and the other kind.

~~~
bengl3rt
Agreed. This narrative that entrepreneurship necessarily must be this ascetic,
consuming lifestyle really bothers me. I think it can also be done in a more
measured way that's less black and white.

~~~
rhizome
Hehe, that's not actually my point, since you can valorize heads-down work
without having to talk about anybody else. :)

------
_pius
Great article and very true.

On a separate note, I'm surprised by the tone of some of the comments in this
thread. Nothing in this article should make you feel angry and defensive
unless you're bringing your own issues to the table ...

------
mv1
There seems to be a lot of mythology around the ascetic entrepreneur. My
experience is that many founders begin startups from a place of financial
strength. They either made money as employees of other startups before
starting their own (after the startup was funded, greatly reducing risk), made
money in industry before starting their own company, had a large inheritance,
etc.

Does anyone have any concrete data on the finances of entrepreneurs when they
start their first company, especially successful entrepreneurs? This study is
the closest data I could find.
[http://www.kauffman.org/uploadedFiles/FactSheet/EduTechEntr1...](http://www.kauffman.org/uploadedFiles/FactSheet/EduTechEntr101508SFS.pdf)
It states that most entrepreneurs are older (median age 39) and have college
degrees, often from good schools, and often advanced degrees. This suggests
that they may have quite a bit of reserve cash to maintain much of their
lifestyle, and/or a working spouse that helps do the same.

~~~
jayliew
I grew up poor, extended family scraped some money together (plus me working)
to put me through college, worked at a software company for 6 years, saved up,
and now I'm burning my savings every day bootstrapping. Here at Hacker Dojo,
every day someone walks in the door, and I hear a similar story. That's my
experience. Which is clearly the opposite of yours.

~~~
mv1
Perhaps I just have a skewed sample set then.

------
vipivip
In real life though creating a company needs a lot of commitment.

------
noelchurchill
Two kinds of people in this world: You, and everyone else.

People will box you into a definition that suite their needs.

