
Ask PG: What is the list of banned sites and why are they banned? - swombat
There's been a few cases recently where I found an interesting article to submit here and was unable to submit it. The site appears to accept the article, but the story remains invisible to everyone and to me appears to have no comment box. I've verified that this happens when other people submit those URLs. Here are a couple of examples of apparently legitimate, genuinely interesting articles being blocked:<p>http://www.infochachkie.com/thescrew/<p>http://gawker.com/5161908/ceos-500000-salary-burns-startup-into-fire-sale<p>I'm not arguing that those sites necessarily need to be unblocked. Perhaps, on the whole, the content from these sites is not useful enough, or too much gets submitted, or someone spammed one of these sites here, or any number of other reasons.<p>However, in the interest of transparency (which this article suggested is an important component of a successful community culture : http://www.paulgraham.com/hackernews.html ) I think that the list of banned sites, along with the reason why they're banned, should be made public.<p>Or, if there's a good reason why it shouldn't be public, then I would love to know it.
======
pg
It's not true that killed stories can't be seen by anyone except the
submitter. They can be seen by everyone else who has showdead turned on.

You can easily check whether a site is banned by submitting something from it
and seeing if it gets killed immediately. I.e. if it's visible on the new page
to someone who's not logged in. (You may have to wait a minute because the new
page is cached.) Here is the complete list:

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wrestling.funpics.in)

The great majority are banned for spamming and/or voting rings. Others (like
url shortening services, squidoo, etc) are banned because they're often used
by spammers. Others are banned for the reasons I listed in that recent essay:
linkjacking, being offtopic, or characteristically being fluff.

~~~
ratsbane
Credit to PG for transparency and also for keeping YNews on the high road.

I did want to browse some of these sites just to see why they might be banned
(mapsofindia.com?) and it's a nuisance to have to copy and paste URLs so I
parsed that list into one with link tags and put it here:

<http://douglassims.org/banned.html>

~~~
pg
You might want to use nofollow. Most of these sites are spammers who posted to
HN to improve their pagerank, which is what you're doing if you link to them
without nofollow.

~~~
ratsbane
Thank you. Fixed now.

------
raganwald
Some sites are banned, obviously because their signal-to-noise ration is
unacceptably low. There is also a policy discouraging content that simply
paraphrases another link ("linkjacking").

Perhaps linkjacking is perfectly acceptable for banned sites. From time to
time they may actually write something useful and informative. Would
summarizing it with a link to the original be an acceptable post?

This makes sense to me. I don't have a lot of popular blogs like CH in my feed
reader, but I rely on others to let me know when Jeff writes something I would
find interesting. same idea here.

------
rms
Don't forget the one in the source code that will automatically get your
account banned! (I leave posting it here as an exercise to the reader.)

~~~
zepolen
<http://tinyurl.com/22q5z9>

~~~
cool-RR
I don't understand the joke. Can someone please explain?

~~~
gasull
[http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=THE%20INTERNE...](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=THE%20INTERNET%20%3D%20SERIOUS%20BUSINESS)

It's an Internet meme.

------
greyman
Hi swombat, Regarding gawker, as I remember, there was a discussion here
whether to ban it, and most people were for the ban. The reason was the low
quality of journalism and defamation tendencies in some of its articles. So
gawker is indeed banned.

~~~
nraynaud
why not ban techcrunch on the same grounds then ?

~~~
fauigerzigerk
Techcrunch is indeed pretty nasty sometimes, and I have criticised them here
before, but it would be utterly ridiculous if hacker news, a news site for
startups, banned one of the preeminent startup blogs.

Techcrunch is influential and as such it is relevant for many people here. You
can ban a site that is nasty and irrelevant, but you cannot ban a very
relevant site just because some articles are odious.

Banning should not be about morals, but rather about usefulness.

~~~
bliving
Noisy != useful

Moralistic != useful

But your mileage may vary.

------
mkyc
For the short term, Erwin's "let's not make this reddit" is right. However,
editor-oversight of this list and, more broadly, this site has drawbacks:
sustainability, non-diversity, missed opportunity.

There are many news stories that are absolute tripe by our standards and yet
yield good discussions, distinctions, related works, and counterpoints. There
is an insightful response to even the worst tripe. It might be a detailed
criticism for the author or submitter, an explanation of phenomenon, or a link
to a better blog-post on the same issue. The problem isnt that our ethic is
absent there, but that it's drowned out.

Build up a public system alongside editor intervention. Technical
implementation or culture may be the things that make websites deteriorate,
and we can change these. Try things out, and if they seem to work, let them
take over to a greater extent.

Some ideas: * Deter 'rabble' from participating: * Make the site have a higher
usability learning curve * Make the community extremely hostile to even
potential stupidity. * Increase the 'cost' of upmodding: * Add a time-delayed
reconfirmation for upmods * Limit upmods per day. * Pick up possible problems
in a post or reply and ask for confirmation: "Here is a preview of your
comment, possible bad grammer highlighted blue. We discourage 'memes',
aolbonics, and old jokes; these are highlighted red. If these are false
positives, please hit submit and a developer will address these issues." * Put
"please upmod and post insightful and well-composed comments that expand on or
offer alternative views to the story" directly under the 'add comment' button.
* Add a 'criticize' field to stories and comments that would be visible or
sent to the author, with "this is vague", "this could be shorter", "provide
evidence", "the title is sensationalist", etc. * Add a mandatory preview
button for posts and comments.

------
whirlycott1
I'd be very curious to know what countries these people are coming from. I
just did an analysis of social media spammers on StyleFeeder and would be
curious to know how HN compares:

[http://blog.tech.stylefeeder.com/2009/02/28/social-media-
spa...](http://blog.tech.stylefeeder.com/2009/02/28/social-media-spam/)

If you post the list of IPs that these folks are posting from, I have code
ready to make pretty graphs and will share the results.

------
ccrider
Infochachkie (www.infochachkie.com) does appear to be a legit startup site.
There are no ads and, as far as I can tell, nothing is being sold.

Not sure why you would block this content. I discovered this site on HN and I
have shared it with a number of my friends.

Is it possible you have too heavy a hand here? I scanned the long list of
banned sites and most appear to be very smarmy (just based on the urls).

------
vaksel
If its something truly ground breaking, just go and find the story on one of
the other sites and post that.

------
zandorg
I don't see what's wrong with Valleywag, I read it every day. It's hilarious,
and interesting, and seems well-researched for a gossip site.

~~~
thaumaturgy
| ...gossip site.

Well there's yer problem right there.

------
slavingia
I don't think any sites should be banned (articles will be flagged if need
be).

~~~
allenbrunson
keep in mind, it's nobody's full-time job to maintain this thing. there are
"the editors" who police content, and i'm pretty sure pg is the only one that
works on the site itself, including the code. a list of banned sites is an
easy way to cut down on maintenance.

for what it's worth, i'm pretty sure uncov.com is one of the banned sites. i
keep showdead turned on, and i've seen articles submitted from there from
otherwise legitimate users, and they immediately go dead.

~~~
nostrademons
Though I'm kinda curious if it's possible to "unban" sites on a submission-by-
submission basis. Sometimes sites that are generally bad have an interesting
article once in a while. Can we "unflag" sites that are auto-banned and let an
editor know that maybe they're worth making undead?

