
Fouling Out and Moving On (re: Notifo Shutdown) - jazzychad
http://blog.jazzychad.net/2011/09/08/fouling-out-moving-on.html
======
huhtenberg
Oh, damn. I honestly thought that Notifo would hit it big. FWIW and if it's of
any consolation, Chad, you are not the only one who spent a lot of time on
something that did not work out in the end. Been through that and killing a
project as hard and unpleasant as it is, it made me feel liberated at some
point shortly after. And as they say - what doesn't break you makes you
stronger. So there _is_ an upside.

The idea (of a central event feed) still stands, but as with any general idea
there is a considerable amount of luck involved with acquiring the critical
mass that leads to the exponent.

~~~
rokhayakebe
I, for one, never understood what Notifo did. I tried hard, but I promise I
have no idea what it did. I knew it notified people, but not how to make use
of it.

That being said, I am a bit sad (really, I am) to see someone quit his startup
to join an upstart. I would rather see him go through YC again and surprise us
with his next idea. I am sure this Jazzy Chad has a couple of more ideas, but
maybe he is a bit burned and wants to take a break.

Take your break, Mr Jazzy, but be sure to return and push something out again.

~~~
robgough
Well, as an example - every time someone reply's to a comment I made on Hacker
News I get a notification on my Phone thanks to Notifo.

Same with mentions on IRC.

So yeah, I'm a bit disappointed that it's going away - I liked the app, and
was always surprised I didn't know more people using it. I wish Chad all the
best for the future, and thanks for your hard work.

------
bootload
_"... My startup is dead. ..."_

When I read posts like this, the full acceptance of failure by US
entrepreneurs, startups & business, I lament this positive trait isn't
acknowledged in my country.

~~~
fbnt
Same here. He's rightfully going to be treated as an experienced individual,
whereas in my country you'd have an "I'm a failure" sign tattooed on your
forehead by now, with nobody willing to do business with you again. This is
what makes SV great.

~~~
hessenwolf
Had a really interesting discussion group yesterday with the CEO (several
billion a year revenue company) about the difference in attitude to planning
and fear of failure in the English-speaking world versus Germany.

In English, if I want to get two things done, I aim for 5, hit three, and
happily fail humiliatingly on my other two goals. In Germany, 'a plan is a
promise', and anything you publically disclose absolutely must be completed.

------
d0m
This is so hard to say that as a founder. You've went through all the YC
programs, see lots of friends/startups succeed, you keep hearing things like
"Never give up".. but there's come a point where "You see things from a new
perspective" and at this moment you need to decide either to continue, stop or
pivot.

I always liked the concept behind notifo.. but also was wondering how it'd
make money. But then, you can think of hundreds of startups and think the same
way "How would they make money!?" and still, they're there for years and
years. (Twitter someone?)

~~~
tekacs
So true - for that matter, Dropbox, anyone?

~~~
jackowayed
If it weren't for the generous free tier, you'd never say that. File storage
is something people pay good money for, even when it doesn't have magic sync
and sharing

~~~
tekacs
Yes that's very true - I have a Dropbox Pro account (and CloudApp Pro and
Google Paid Storage and Evernote Premium - yes, I do see the overlap in all
this cloud storage) myself, but then it does feel like Dropbox have vastly
more free users than paid - while this is of course brilliant for momentum, it
feels as though Dropbox isn't taken as seriously as it could be as a paid
storage service, given their generous free quota leaving most users without a
real need to upgrade and those with greater storage needs eschewing Dropbox
for other, older, more established alternatives (who also often provide more
storage space). It seems that those of us who really cherish Dropbox's unique
features are the ones left going after Dropbox Pro accounts...

Also, for that matter, Dropbox did initially put out their current set of paid
storage plans as an 'interim' measure, until they could settle on a wider
range of rates more suited to the general public (there is a fair amount of
opinion suggesting that their prices are rather steep, even given the awesome
extra features they provide...)

------
bbhacker
It is often said that failing with your startup can also be a good thing
because it shows at least that you have been willing to try and learned a lot.
Frankly speaking, I always felt this mantra a little bit "too good to be true"
and that if your venture does not work out, you are screwed.

But after following Chad (and also Paul) with their ventures (even though I
don't know them personally) and I just feel like this is one example where it
is true: Yes, it didn't work out, yes, a lot of money was invested and not
earned back.But ultimately a lot was learned and Chad has shown his
development skills and ability to ship something. The business model was not
perfect, maybe the market was non-existant. But the way they have run this
project and the way they are handling it now gives them more credibility than
trying to hide a stagnant startup.

------
jonmc12
Chad, did you try to position company for a talent acquisition? Can you lend
insight into why this was not a good exit option for Notifo?

~~~
jazzychad
Yes, I did. I'm debating whether or not to write much detail about this in a
separate post... but the gist is that the big companies were not interested in
acquiring a one-person team, literally destroying any chance of a talent
acquisition. Another strike against single-founders.

~~~
thevivekpandey
I would request you to write about this in a separate post.

~~~
roneil
I'd love to hear more about the single founder experience too, could you tell
us more about that or write up a post about that?

Edit: I just found a post about your experience on your blog, thanks for
writing about it already. For others who are curious about this, see here:
[http://blog.jazzychad.net/2011/08/31/applying-to-yc-as-a-
sin...](http://blog.jazzychad.net/2011/08/31/applying-to-yc-as-a-single-
founder.html)

------
rumpelstiltskin
Sorry to hear the news.

Also, I had no idea Paul Stamatiou left to join Picplum. How often do YC alums
jump from a still running startup to another? Is it common?

~~~
jazzychad
We were going to make that news public, but then we were advised against it.
So we didn't. I still have the post in my drafts folder. I will post it
someday as it does contain some important lessons.

~~~
rumpelstiltskin
Ahh I see. Well, either way, best of luck at Twilio for now, and a startup in
the future :)

------
zacharyz
Sad news Chad, but Twilio seems like it will be a great fit for you - at least
until that itch comes back again :).

~~~
dmor
Chad has always been someone I wanted to work with, and now I get to!
Hopefully that itch will lie dormant for awhile :)

------
bluekite2000
@jazzychad how did marriage life affect all of this? did it influence your
decision to quit notifo and join twilio? was the past year better or worse
because of it? Would love to hear your take on this.

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lkrubner
Back in March, Chad took the time to write up a history of his developing
interest in this space, and I find that history gives a lot of context to what
must be a tough decision now:

<http://blog.jazzychad.net/2011/03/14/twitter-and-me.html>

------
qthrul
As mixed as your feelings might be, please reserve room for the feeling of
knowing that your journey is inspiring to many many, many others out there.

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aespinoza
This is very sad indeed.

It would be really interesting if you could share more of your experiences as
a startup founder and some feedback to upcoming founders regarding how your
startup ended up this way.

We are embarking on this adventure ourselves, and right now our biggest
disadvantage is experience in the startup arena. We work hard, we are
passionate and we have great ideas... just like you. But I believe that is not
enough.

So anything else you could share would be great.

~~~
jazzychad
You may have already seen these, but here are two:

\- <http://blog.jazzychad.net/2011/05/02/startups-are-hard.html>

\- [http://blog.jazzychad.net/2011/08/31/applying-to-yc-as-a-
sin...](http://blog.jazzychad.net/2011/08/31/applying-to-yc-as-a-single-
founder.html)

I have a couple more that are written, but now is not the time to post them.

~~~
aespinoza
Yes I have read those. We have been following your blog posts for a while now.

Whenever you feel is right, share your thoughts. :D

------
ajcronk
I read the title as a basketball metaphor, not baseball, and it still worked.
The power of sports metaphors.

~~~
jazzychad
Funny, I hadn't thought of the basketball metaphor. Maybe that's what my
friend meant, and I didn't know it! Just shows my bias toward baseball.

~~~
corin_
The baseball metaphor actually struck me as a little odd, why a foul out not a
fly out?

And, given you haven't had a recorded out but instead just failed to find the
success needed to get on base, perhaps you just kept fouling the ball off
until you got tired and decided to retire :)

------
shoham
Sounds like you came a long, long way. As a former little league baseball and
musician myself, who has started my fair share of bands, and other ventures, I
can totally relate to the feeling of putting so much in, and having to hang
'em up when things just aren't working out for one reason or another. For
whatever it's worth, consider this: even the most talented, hardworking
ballplayers never even make it to the show. Unlike those guys, there's not
really an age limit in your field, and instead of needing a few hundred pros
(or thousand, if you count the minors too) as a software engineer you'll have
lots of time and opportunity to get back up to the plate (too many sports
metaphors -- is there such a thing?)

All the best at Twilio :-)

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hechtic
Sorry to hear it Chad. I haven't used Notifo but followed your work, and saw
you present a few months back at the real-time API meetup at Mulesoft's
offices.

You seem like a sharp guy with tons of enthusiasm for what you have built (and
will build in the future), so I am sure you will be successful here in SV.

On the single co-founder aspect - wow, I can't imagine. Aside from the moral
support though, one thing you might want to consider is how a second cofounder
could provide complementary/different skills from your own.

For example, partner with a business type person. Business models are hard,
but lots of people have been through the experience of testing various pricing
models, and could probably help you get closer to $$ faster.

------
dmak
I'm sorry to hear that. For me, I have heard of it and I looked on the
website, but I didn't dig deeper. I wanted a simple video to tell me what it
is and what can it do for me, but there wasn't. "Real-time notifications from
tons of services pushed to your mobile phone. Free. " I didn't understand why
would this be useful to me, when the services I currently use had push
notifications. It seemed like a redundant app. I feel like the marketing of
this product was not powerful enough. You just needed to show me how I can use
this and how I can fit this into my lifestyle. My 2 cents.

------
medius
Thank you for your post as it gives us a much needed dose of realism when
everyone dreams of hitting it big. It's not to disuade people from following
their dream, but to realize the extent of challenges they will face.

I look forward to your post-mortem article. I wish more startups who do not
"make it" come out and write about their experience so that we don't hear only
about the successful ones. I certainly admire people who are successful, but I
truly respect those who fail and are not afraid to admit it and learn from
what went wrong.

------
wesleyd
Kudos on being able to shut down cleanly.

The world has lots of stories on starting up, but way too few on shutting
down. If you can bear to, please write about your experiences!

------
jannes
There were certainly many factors that I don't know about at play here, but it
makes me wonder if there's more truth to all that talk about single founder
startups than I thought.

Whatever the exact reasons for this unfortunate event are, maybe a second
founder could have helped averting this.

~~~
jazzychad
Yes, the single-founder aspect did play a part in the outcome here (see
another one of my comments in this thread).

------
mathattack
There are two way to interpret, "Never Give Up"

1 - Never Give Up on the current project.

2 - Never Give Up on big ideas.

Hang in there and heed PG's advice on #2. It's very small consolation, but
you're 20 months smarter and wiser than when you started, and the market is
still receptive. Be resilient, and you will land well.

------
capdiz
Wow. Am impressed by the support one gets on HN. Keep it up guys and wish you
the best of luck chad.

------
coffee
So very sorry to hear about this.

In the next few months, if you can muster up the energy (and desire) I think
the community would love to hear a post-mortem and/or some thoughts about how
you could have pivoted into a successful business model.

Keep your head up, the experienced gained is invaluable!

~~~
jazzychad
Yes, I will be writing a post-mortem article about all of this, but it might
take a while.

------
par
Sorry to hear about this. Nevertheless it is an inspiration to the rest of us,
thanks so much for sharing your story. Best of luck to you and Paul both, you
both have great blogs, I'm now a subscriber. :)

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ww520
Sad to see it's closed. Hope you gain many intangibles out of the adventure
despite the closing.

Do you mind sharing any lessons? What's the cost like for running Notifo?

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dinaiz
I guess you already did that, but just in case : did you try kickstarter ?
Maybe you can use it as an iron lung as well ?

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timmillwood
I used Notifo to notify me of critical issues when on call, because there is
no better service to do this on the iPhone.

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danielsiders
Sorry to hear that, I was a fan and user. Will any of the code survive as open
source with a friendly license?

------
jayair
Sorry to hear Chad! Best of luck at Twillio. I look forward to the next time
you wear the founder hat again.

------
revorad
Oh man, this hurt deep inside. Good luck Chad. I hope you'll keep building
more awesome tools on the side.

------
ivankirigin
Good luck at your next gig, and I look forward to the next at bat

------
thomaspun
Good luck Chad.

