
Reply of the Zaporozhian Cossacks - spectramax
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reply_of_the_Zaporozhian_Cossacks
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Jun8
“Turkish devil”, indeed; note the irony, the title of the person who wrote the
purported letter is “Kosh otaman”, a title with a Turkic word:-)

There’s confusion between “Kazakh” and “Cossack”, much was at stake on
definitions like this, especially in earlier times when Turanic ideas were en
vogue. Tolstoy’s novel is about the people mentioned here, who are Christian.

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sologoub
Turkic origin is not the only possible root - there is also a Scandinavian
theory that ties hetman and otaman together (their meaning is similar and at
some point was used interchangeably) and also a Germanic root.

Source is in Russian (couldn’t find an English one):
[https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Атаман](https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Атаман)

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app4soft
> (couldn’t find an English one)

Here are Wikipedia pages in Ukrainian[1] and English[2]

[1]
[https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B0...](https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BD)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ataman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ataman)

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sologoub
Thanks! Didn’t search hard enough.

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legohead
I love this story and painting, but I wonder.. did the Cossacks hold their
ground, or did the Sultan eventually get them?

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smsm42
One can say he did not, and they did. The most likely context of this is one
of the countless wars between Ottomans and Russia for the control over
Ukraine, south of Russia and Crimea. Most likely this one:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-
Turkish_War_(1676%E2%80%...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-
Turkish_War_\(1676%E2%80%931681\)) Note that there were different Cossack
communities there, and some were recognizing Ottomans as rulers, and some did
not. The initial letter was probably written to the latter, and is by the
standards of that time pretty mild - basically just asking the Cossacks to
bend the knee, like their fellow people on the other end of the river did, and
stop harassing the Ottoman territories. But these Cossacks were having none of
it, and by the end of the war Russia ended up owning their side of Ukraine
(separated by the Dnepr river) while Ottomans ended up owning the other part.
Of course, it soon led to the next war, of which there was about a dozen
overall. Cossacks as a community (or rather very diverse set of communities)
survived most of them, until the Communist revolution, which largely destroyed
their way of life. Though it is said to be reviving now, not sure whether it
is authentic anymore.

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tomcam
That’s one of the most lively paintings I’ve ever seen. I suspect there are
depths of symbolism of which I’m totally unaware and probably a bunch of
insults to ethnic groups, but to my untrained eye it reminds me of Bruegel the
Elder meets Norman Rockwell.

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andrewl-hn
One interesting detail is the rolled banners. Some of them are yellow and blue
- same flags that modern Ukraine uses. Others are black and red - the colors
used by Ukrainian rebel armies against Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth, Ottoman
Empire, and Russia. Centuries later black and red banners were used by
Euromaidan protesters.

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dmix
> The second version of "The Cossacks" the artist tried to make more
> "historically authentic". In 1932 it was presented by the Tretyakov Gallery
> to the M. F. Sumtsov Kharkiv Historical Museum.

The differences in the two versions is interesting. It's mostly some subtle
differences in hair styles and clothing design. I'm curious what the exact
motivation/reasons were.

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samirillian
> the crick in our dick

gold

