
Universal Basic Income Will Accelerate Innovation by Reducing Fears of Failure - 2noame
https://medium.com/basic-income/universal-basic-income-will-accelerate-innovation-by-reducing-our-fear-of-failure-b81ee65a254
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WheelsAtLarge
No, no, no.... Universal Basic Income will only make it easier for people to
do nothing.

If money is such a saver why doesn't 100% or for that matter 50% of those
considered rich have a business or at least try for one? Why doesn't every
venture capital fund throw money out like it's candy? The answers is that it's
both money and motivation that makes successful people and businesses. Money
no matter the amount will demotivate people. If one knows that just by waking
up one is guaranteed a way to stay alive then it's much easier to not do
anything. It's easier to wait until the perfect idea comes to mind. We
(procrastinators) all know that tomorrow is better than today. Whether we like
it or not failure is not just about money. It's also about how we are view by
others in society and money will not make public perception any easier.

Yes, there's a place for financial aid and such but it needs to be carefully
parsed. No, not everybody needs a basic income. Basic income for all is a bad
idea.

~~~
tluyben2
The people that would do nothing already do not contribute and won't
contribute at all in the future anyway when their jobs are gone. The few that
can contribute and do nothing probably already found ways of doing nothing
anyway. In the Netherlands, I can do nothing and get money; you have to be a
bit smart about it but it is definitely not hard to just get money. Do more
people do nothing? Nah. More people take risk and start their own small
company as you have fallback anyway.

But still, what is the answer; there are no jobs soon (<100 yrs) for most
people, what does 'doing nothing' mean then?

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geooooooooobox
I don't think the person understands that basic income doesn't mean resources
are infinite, resource are still finite, miserably finite

~~~
kafkaesq
Actually, this is something that academic proponents of Basic Income have
thought quite a lot about (and analyzed quite exhaustively). While it may seem
counterintuitive at first, t's definitely not some kind of perpetual motion
machine, or "something for nothing" scheme

~~~
geooooooooobox
Out of curiosity, these proponents who say they've analyzed it through and
through and think the theory is sound, their assumptions don't include
rational players, do they?

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kafkaesq
You can go around thinking contentedly to yourself that basic income advocates
are total idiots (and that those on the academic side, in particular, are
outright frauds, and functionally illiterate in the field that they claim to
have gotten their advanced degrees in) if you want to. But I might recommend
doing some basic research on the topic, instead.

~~~
geooooooooobox
The way you put it, as though all ideas that ever existed only ever had
opponents who were illterate and did not have advanced degrees in anything.
But the second part sounds fair and will take that to heart

~~~
kafkaesq
Sorry, didn't mean to make it sound that way. The only position I really have
on BUI is that it seems "worth testing, at the very least". There seem to be
some interesting live trials going on in that regard, so I guess we'll see how
they play out.

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gumby
This is why the ACA was great for startups as well -- a shame it looks like it
may be dismantled.

Of course while a UBI of some sort is necessary to deal with the widespread
loss of jobs it is hardly sufficient. Most people want to feel _useful_
(mostly as part of something rather than a starter of something) and
addressing this need for dignity and acceptance is crucial. Else we'll have
more social unrest.

~~~
rogerdpack
Are there any numbers now showing ACA helped startups? Just wondering.

~~~
gumby
I don't know about numbers but it certainly made it easier for me to find
startup founders and made it easier to recruit people from big companies
before we were big enough to get health care on our own (you can't even write
a "group" policy in CA for under five people AFAICT).

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blunte
And one reason UBI is unlikely to ever really happen is that the few people at
the top (who continually adapt the system to maintain their positions of
dominance/wealth) exactly do not want the system to change. They especially do
not want to democratize markets, lest they lose their positions. UBI would
raise the little guy, freeing him or her to explore more possibilities beyond
the treadmill of survival. And that could lead to disruptions, and disruptions
are bad for dictators/monopolists.

~~~
acchow
If jobs continue disappearing due to robots and software and are not
sufficiently replaced by new jobs, then we will end up with a lot of
unemployed, poor people. At that point, we will either introduce some variant
of UBI or we will have civil war.

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jimmywanger
Remember. A country-wide Universal Basic Income will necessarily come with
huge restrictions on immigration.

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Pyrhos
This might be an interesting read for ya.

[https://fee.org/articles/income-without-
work/](https://fee.org/articles/income-without-work/)

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throwaway4891a
As an FYI: an average single male in Santa Clara county ( largest component of
Silicon Valley) can get about USD $150/mo in cash aid and $200/mo for food
(4k/yr). State/Federal Social Security for permanent disability varies
$650-1000/mo ($8-12k/yr). Self-sufficiency requires at least $2.5k/mo
($30k/yr) per adult.

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yuhong
I have been thinking of doing it under a gold standard by basically increasing
it every time there is a trade surplus and decreasing it every time there is a
deficit. Restoring manufacturing will help reduce the trade deficit, but may
not restore all the jobs due to automation.

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DefaultUserHN
Under Universal Basic Income, since you did not do any work but still get
money for free, won't that just devalue the dollar, causing inflation?

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rogerdpack
I'm all for a UBI. Then I can quit my day job and "do whatever I want"
instead. Including saving the world. Case in point just the other day I sat
down and calculated, because my state legislature hasn't expanded medicaid, I
still need to make "x" thousand dollars per year to qualify for obamacare
subsidies. What does this mean? Because we have several children, it's a non
trivial amount. The result? I will be keeping my day job, and working 8-5,
instead of working part time and living off the dole. Come on, government,
fund me! Don't hold back! I don't want to work! Who's with me? Raise the pitch
forks and torches! :) (I wish I were kidding, but I really did do that
calculating...)

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mr_blobs
No, no it won't.

Innovation is generally not accelerated by people that are comfortable/have
all of their basic needs met. It's accelerated when you are put into a
situation where you need to innovate or fail.

Failure is actually the stimuli and it pushes people to succeed more than
anything.

~~~
kafkaesq
_Failure is actually the stimuli and it pushes people to succeed more than
anything._

A favorite saying of comparatively wealthy (or potentially wealthy) people,
where "failure" means something on the order of "not being able to retire very
comfortably by 40" or "not being able to make a high salary _and_ do what I
love for a living." Rather than "getting evicted", "never having decent health
insurance", "being stuck in an $18 an hour job for the rest of my life because
I felt too discouraged / stressed out / too scared of being in debt for the
rest of my life to finish my college degree".

You know, heavy, real, life-choice-limiting and existence-threatening failure
like that.

Seriously, the basic income proposal is a very complex topic, with many
tradeoffs involved. You can't just deflate even a partial aspect of it (its
effect on innovation, for example) with a cute little pinprick like that.

~~~
mr_blobs
Okay, I'll bite.

In response to your failure comment: I meant being evicted or not having food
on the table if you don't succeed. Not being able to retire by 40 is a very
strange idea of 'failure'.

Who thinks this way?

Most businesses in the US are started with loans or personal money and failure
means you can't pay the rent.

It will inflate our currency. The middle class will get a pay decrease and
money will not go as far because the cost of many things will increase. Wages
in many different industries will be increased because it will be difficult to
find anyone to work for less than what they are receiving from the government.
This sounds great, but it just means an increase in overall costs for many
goods and services and the minimum to survive will now be more expensive.

It won't work in the long-run. Everyone seems to think we will have exactly
what we have now, but with free money. Free money means we will have more and
more people staying out of the workforce and we will eventually run out of
people to tax.

Welfare destroyed the lives of many people in my extended family. Most people
aren't that ambitious and UBI, which is basically just welfare with no strings
attached, will only create generations of people dependent on the government.

~~~
2noame
If your chief concern is about rising prices, I suggest reading this one next
to really get into the weeds on that one: [https://medium.com/basic-
income/wouldnt-unconditional-basic-...](https://medium.com/basic-
income/wouldnt-unconditional-basic-income-just-cause-massive-inflation-
fe71d69f15e7)

As for comparisons with welfare, it's the strings that are the problem with
welfare. Think about it. If you are receiving $12,000 in welfare and get a job
earning $20,000 you are likely to have a new total of around $20,000. That's
because welfare gets pulled away with paid work.

With a $12,000 UBI however, getting a job earning $20,000 would leave you with
a new total of $32,000. See the difference? With UBI there is more incentive
to work because it's not pulled away with work. UBI doesn't punish you for
working. Welfare does.

Do you understand?

