
First-ever human head transplant is now possible, says neuroscientist - Lightning
http://qz.com/99413/first-ever-human-head-transplant-is-now-possible-says-neuroscientist/
======
devindotcom
This is pretty pie-in-the-sky stuff. Having studied spinal cord anatomy a bit,
it seems to me that "full use" of the donor body is absolutely not an option.
Cord cross sections are similar on a gross level but when you get down to
specific pathways and such, there's huge variation. And you can't just rely on
natural mending processes and neural plasticity to make up the difference.

I'm not saying we'll never have something like this, but the "cut the cord and
put it on top of the other cord" method described here seems massively,
_massively_ naive, like pre-enlightenment level medicine.

~~~
dclowd9901
Ability to control different parts of the body (assuming there is a
connection) seems like it would be more a "software configuration" issue than
a "hardware issue" (if such an analogy is at all appropriate).

Are you saying that even if the connection is there, the brain can never learn
to utilize it if it doesn't jibe with the way the brain "is"?

~~~
Retric
The brain has zero software it's 100% hardware.

Basically each neuron in the spine is independent and really long so a local
cut breaks connections several feet from the break because the cells die. You
can't fix things because unlike fiber optics or cable each side does not line
up even in the original person let alone someone else.

~~~
enraged_camel
>>The brain has zero software it's 100% hardware.

I'm not sure if we can say this with any level of certainty. If anything, the
nature vs. nurture dichotomy could translate directly to hardware vs.
software. What nature gives you is hardware, and what you learn is software.

~~~
skaevola
Nope, learning physically changes the brain. For example, learning to juggle
will increase certain portions of their brain. [1]

It's like running Crysis, and having your video card's capability increase,

1\.
[http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone...](http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0002669)

~~~
Zarel
Yes, and hard drives physically change when they're modified, too.

I think it's more like installing Crysis, and having more of your hard drive
devoted to Crysis than before.

~~~
skaevola
Memories are stored in the hippocampus, the changes took place in the
occipito-temporal cortex.

I'm not a neuroscientist, but my understanding is that the changes were
directly related to processing, not memory.

~~~
devindotcom
No one knows where memories are "stored," if stored is the proper term. But it
is not exclusively in the hippocampus, that much is certain. The hippocampal
region is definitely important in the function of memory but it is not where
memories are located, and it is doubtful that they are located in any one
structure in particular.

~~~
skaevola
Definitely true, but not really responsive to my point.

------
danso
Crazy. I don't think we as a society have even gotten used to the implications
of face transplants.

My prediction: we'll be arguing for a long time whether this is a _head_
transplant or a _body_ transplant...at least in Philosophy 101 courses.

~~~
bennyg
No, it's a head transplant. The head is part of the body. There is nothing
metaphysical about a head. That's not where the philosophical language
problems come into play. The problems start when you talk about WHO the
combinated person is.

~~~
nsxwolf
If you were diagnosed with brain cancer, would you be pleased if you were
offered a head transplant as a cure?

No, you would not.

Now if you had terminal cancer spread all over your body, would you accept a
body transplant as a treatment option?

It's a body transplant.

~~~
akiselev
So you install a motherboard into a processor?

~~~
nsxwolf
If you feel your identity is as trivial and interchangeable as a computer's
CPU, be my guest. I don't think you'll get the result you're looking for.

~~~
akiselev
You were arguing semantics, so was I.

We do now know nearly enough about the brain to understand what "identity" is
for us to speculate on whether a brain transplant would mean losing part of
it, let alone actually perform a successful brain transplant in a human.

~~~
Sharlin
[http://lesswrong.com/lw/kj/no_one_knows_what_science_doesnt_...](http://lesswrong.com/lw/kj/no_one_knows_what_science_doesnt_know/)

I'm rather certain that we know enough about brains to confindently say that
all the higher functions of the central nervous system quite definitely reside
in the brain, and specifically in the neocortex, not in the spinal cord or
anywhere else.

~~~
akiselev
There is a reason I said "identity" with the quotes, not higher functions. I
have no doubt a well funded enough project can transplant a human brain into a
different body and "weld" the nervous systems to restore basic cognitive and
motor functions in the next few decades.

What I mean by identity is an understanding of how "you" as a person are
formed by phenomena emerging from very complex biological system. For example,
I have a very bad feeling in my stomach when I do something I am ashamed of.
I'm 99% certain that the neurons in my stomach have little to do with this
feeling and it's "all in my head," but we really know for certain how our
brain chemistry, our mood, our reactions are shaped by the chemical and
hormonal functions of the rest of the body? You are, afterall, combining two
separate genetic lines, is there no possibility for a neural rejection like
graft-versus-host?

~~~
nsxwolf
I will grant that transplants get us into weird territory. It was just in the
last decade or so when the first larynx transplant was done did we learn that
the recipient has his original voice restored and doesn't gain that of the
donor's. The outcome was really in question at the time.

Perhaps the new body does feed back some changes into the brain, but overall
we still have a cortex with the original memories, etc as a starting point.

~~~
akiselev
And weird territory is what humanity is all about :)

Do you have a link to the larynx transplant paper? That sounds fascinating. I
was actually more thinking about very understood practical lines like I know
my personality is drastically different (according to friends) on certain
medications. With the role even common hormones like testosterone have and the
various feedback loops that could come down to the genetics of body cell
lines, I can't imagine a person's personality not changing, at least in a
time/environment dependent way. Seasonal depressive disorders come to mind, as
those seem to have partially somatic causes.

Another interesting question is to what degree does the body (i.e. muscle
memory) assist or modify how memories are "pulled up" and processed? Perhaps
there will be random unavoidable "corruptions" in the fusing process that
result in the signals for stimuli changing (i.e. sensitivity to heat and cold
is probably somatic) and the brain pulling up inappropriate emotions or
responses?

Is it still your identity if chemical mismatches change your interpretation of
your memories over the long term or are you now a hybrid that, due to the
transplant, has the extreme fortune of experiencing life and even epistemology
in an entirely different way?

------
ejain
It's not a head transplant, it's a body transplant.

~~~
ewrwerwerw
I imagine it'll be easier eventually to simply move the head to an android
body.

~~~
hfsktr
What would we do with all the spare android heads then? :P

~~~
bobwaycott
Put them back on our abandoned human bodies so as to allow the machines to
fully integrate and understand the human experience as a defense against them
misunderstanding our collective craziness and rising up to destroy us. :)

------
gliese1337
Previous HN Discussion:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5956301](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5956301)
And the technical details:
[http://www.surgicalneurologyint.com/article.asp?issn=2152-78...](http://www.surgicalneurologyint.com/article.asp?issn=2152-7806;year=2013;volume=4;issue=2;spage=335;epage=342;aulast=Canavero)

~~~
VladRussian2
this seems to be thought experiment on throwing together of the old experiment
on monkey head transplanting technicalities and the recent discoveries about
PEG and some other compounds stopping the typical inflamation process that
makes spine cord cuts into unrestorable connection breaks.

That begs a question - why wouldn't before head transplant we'd try to
transplant a piece of spine (one or few vertebrae) with a cord to the people
with traumatic damages of the spine (like bullet or some sport injuries)?

~~~
Udo
You just have identified the primary reason why this entire head transplant
thing is badly thought-out fiction right there: we haven't mastered
reconnecting nerves yet. At least not reliably and not on that scale.

------
thorum
Hasn't it been shown that the body, especially the gastrointestinal system,
has a huge effect on cognitive function? I wonder if a procedure like this is
possible without dramatically changing the personality of the subject.

~~~
devindotcom
It certainly can affect your moods and drives, but it's feedback, not
origination. If such a procedure were in fact carried out successfully (and I
have grave doubts about that) the person may certainly have different habits
when it comes to eating, tiring, and so on, but they wouldn't suddenly start
liking spicy food or jazz.

~~~
speeder
Well... there are a couple of reports of heart transplants suddenly changing
one taste for soccer team so... I am not so sure about that.

I guess it might relate to hormonal response or something.

------
swamp40
Here's the only important sentence:

 _Connection of a spinal cord from the head of one creature to the body of
another has never been attempted even in animals, so Canavero’s paper must be
taken as an exercise in speculation._

~~~
dhughes
Not quite ever it's been done with dogs.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lICXAFFxWgk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lICXAFFxWgk)

edit: I guess that's part 1 of the procedure, there is another video of the
transplant. There are pictures of it too
[https://www.google.com/search?q=russian+soviet+transplant+do...](https://www.google.com/search?q=russian+soviet+transplant+dogs+head&safe=off&qscrl=1&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=RdHRUZeNEvay4AOE6oGQCw&ved=0CE0QsAQ&biw=1280&bih=687)

------
Pitarou
Has anyone sat down and tried to itemise all the taboos this would break?

I don't consider myself especially squeamish, bit this concept creeps the hell
out of me!

~~~
Dylan16807
Are you creeped out by the idea of an arm transplant?

~~~
agumonkey
Was there no resistance to the first organ transplants ? I bet many people
weren't willing to allow it or even benefit from it.

~~~
Pitarou
Heart transplants caused a lot of upset at first, because folk beliefs about
the heart as the seat of the soul still lingered.

------
dbg31415
Please try this on a monkey first. Show me a monkey with a transplanted head
and we'll talk.

~~~
sampk
[http://vimeo.com/20230127](http://vimeo.com/20230127)

------
ebbv
Sweet I'm putting my head onto a baby's body next week I'll totally own the
other kids in chess club this time through school!

~~~
jessaustin
I'm no bioethicist, but there seem to be several ethical problems with your
plan.

------
pessimizer
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDqh-r8TQgs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDqh-r8TQgs)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experiments_in_the_Revival_of_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experiments_in_the_Revival_of_Organisms)

------
arbuge
This could be the way to go in the future if you have any major incurable
trouble, so long as it's below the neckline... it's a whole new spin on
attaining immortality. Of course, heads too must die some day, but this
certainly would push your runway out quite a bit.

------
blaze33
There is a related video
[http://vimeo.com/20230127](http://vimeo.com/20230127) (14min) with an
interview of Robert White and some footage of animals head transplants in the
70s.

------
freshyill
How would you like to be the guy on the waiting list who gets the call?

"Mr. Doe, we have a suitable donor. Be at the hospital in 30 minutes so we can
decapitate you before this corpse goes bad."

------
nollidge
Nit: isn't "first-ever" kind of redundant, since " _now_ possible" necessarily
implies it wasn't possible before?

------
YZF
Gives new meaning to brushing your teeth.

Now we need to figure out how to grow bodies with no brains.

------
codereflection
All I can think is this is one step closer to Futurama's Head in a Jar. ;)

------
tsenkov
Shouldn't this be called "body transplantation", instead?

------
tsotha
I wonder what kind of quality of life the new body would provide.

------
tsukikage
"The Head of Professor Dowell" vs. reality ;)

------
tracker1
AT a $13 million dollar cost, that's a barrier to entry... I'll take
SuperMan's body please...

[http://www.tv.com/shows/lois-and-clark-the-new-adventures-
of...](http://www.tv.com/shows/lois-and-clark-the-new-adventures-of-
superman/ordinary-people-29116/)

