
Samsung TV buyers furious after software update leaves sets unusable - artsandsci
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/aug/24/samsung-tv-buyers-furious-after-software-update-leaves-sets-unusable
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manyxcxi
Am I the only one that would love to be able to buy a dumb TV? I have a Roku
and a satellite provider, they can't provide me with anything I don't already
have. I would even be fine with a tuner free TV with no software on it. Give
me a handful of HDMI inputs and be done with it.

I want a nice screen of decent size and performance that I can turn on and
off, that's it.

I don't want to pay extra for crappy software that erodes my privacy, provides
horribly performing media applications that rot and eventually stop working
but there's almost no option whatsoever on the market, even at (or especially
at) the high end range.

~~~
Keyframe
What stops you from using your TV just like that - a dumb TV? Connect it to
power and don't connect it to any network and all you have to do is to use
your HDMI inputs, volume control and picture adjustment. Ignore everything
else. I use it like that. Never had I had to update my TV's software.

~~~
abainbridge
That's what I do with my Samsung TV. It rewards me by making the sound
gradually lose sync with the video. I have to turn the TV off and back on
again about once an hour to resync.

I've often wondered what kind of brain dead software failure is responsible
for this. The sound+video come from my Humax box via HDMI into the TV. The TV
decodes both, shows the video and plays the audio out of the analogue jack on
the back. I plug that into my sound bar (because the TV doesn't support Audio
Return Channel, despite being quite new). Rebooting the Humax box and the
soundbar doesn't help the sync.

My guess is that the thing decoding the HDMI signal feeds sound into the DAC
buffer for the audio jack but never checks to see how full that DAC buffer
gets. I suspect the DACs reference clock isn't synced to the HDMI data, so
clock skew gradually builds. After 2 hours, there is about 1 seconds worth of
audio buffered there.

It's the kind of thing that gets overlooked when the software team are forced
to write a load of crap smart TV stuff when they should be focusing on the
basics.

~~~
pilsetnieks
The people that write the HDMI and DAC firmwares aren't the same people that
make the Android apps that the TV software basically is nowadays. Though
investing in the latter might mean skimping on the former.

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joshribakoff
While I watch TV, my Samsung keeps popping up messages ontop of my show...
"The ESPN app will be deprecated on July 2nd 2020". I don't care. I don't use
that app. I just use netflix. Its super annoying.

I think I'm going to disconnect it from the net after reading this article. I
guess the one a few months ago bout the NSA turning it into a microphone
didn't concern me as much as losing access to netflix.

~~~
JOnAgain
I decided the same a year ago. Turns out, you can't disconnect it once it's
connected -- it refuses to forget networks or previously set passwords if they
worked. I had to just change my wifi password and update everything else.

~~~
cordite
Same experience with an LG short-throw projector. I regret it and now it
always shows up on the cast menu but it doesn't work.

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owaislone
Smart TVs are such a stupid idea. A TV should last 5-10 years. The software
and chips shipped will become irrelevant in 1-2 years time. Just buy regular
TV + crhomecast/firestick/raspbery-pi/etc.

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FTA
Really this is a widespread problem in electronics not limited to TVs. I have
bought two different Android phones in the past 7 years on Amazon for a
certain cell phone provider that have been rendered essentially unusable after
OTA updates. It's a small sample size, but both have occurred about two years
after the phones hit the market.

The first was a Galaxy S4 I bought in 2013. It had only a decent camera but it
got the job done. An update was pushed in summer of 2015 that caused the phone
to lock down every time I tried to open my wifi ''more settings'' option.
Because I purchased it from Amazon, I could not get any technical support
outside of the vendor (who wanted me to hard reset the phone...okay, great,
until I get to the configuration screen on first new boot and it locks down
because, guess what, it opens wifi more settings to let you select a network).

The second was an HTC One M9 that I bought shortly after that debacle. This
phone was very snappy and had a stellar camera on board. It was also
surprisingly rugged given that I dropped it at least 8 times on concrete with
never more than a few scuffs on the meta. Early this summer I got an OTA
update on the phone that broke GPS and MMS. Oh and did I mention one of the
updates the prior year made it so you cannot stop the updates from installing
--that the phone will restart 24 hours after first receiving the new update,
regardless of what you do or who you're on the phone with?

So, I settled for a dumb phone. A $30 flip phone. And when I go on vacation I
take a professional camera with me instead.

There is a systemic issue that we are serfs on the lands of tech giants (I
think I read that great phrasing from Naval Ravikant). We pay up front for the
pleasure of hardware, but are held hostage of usability of the device by the
software that actually runs it--just as the land you buy upfront is still at
the mercy of governmental bodies allowing you to keep it.

Family and friends look at me funny when I tell them I try to build whatever
electronic I want when I am able to. I won't let my music player, fitness
tracker, or smart home features be held hostage to 1) the longevity of these
companies and 2) their mercy for not bricking my device. And unfortunately
many consumers just don't care enough so it will be difficult for us to reach
a critical mass of complaints.

~~~
vidarh
My last phone was OTA updated to start showing full page ads.... Almost drove
me crazy looking for the source because it looked like it was the launcher or
some other app. Finally solved it by installing a firewall app, and will never
buy that brand again (Kingzone) despite loving the hardware. It's the first
phone where I've gone back and bought a second device of the same brand when I
wanted to update because I loved my first one, and they've now burned that
loyalty forever.

I wonder if the ads will make up for the lifetime loss of the people the piss
off.

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gm-conspiracy
I was able to buy a used 55" Vizio that had become "bricked" after it lost
power during an update for $50.

I replaced a $60 board and it was as good as new.

Also, got a 55" Sony for free, similar situation. All it needed was a firmware
flash via USB (was very specific as to USB size/format), and it works fine.

None of these TVs are connected to any network, nor will they be ever again
(as long as I own them).

Also, I see Amazon has a 43" Viewsonic "commercial" 1080p display for ~$450:
[http://amzn.to/2iu2cCB](http://amzn.to/2iu2cCB). I know, they have a TCL 55"
4K w/ built-in Roku for $50 less.

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koolba
Them: " _Why isn 't your TV on the Wi-Fi and why aren't you using the built in
apps?_"

Me months later when crap like this happens: " _To prevent situations like
this._ "

More seriously, I wouldn't buy a TV if I didn't expect it to work, literally,
out of the box. Hence I don't need to upgrade it either.

I don't want new features. I don't want to connect it to my Wi-Fi. I don't
want to use any built-in UI for watching Netflix. I just want a dumb video
output device that works regardless of what I plug into it.

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ksec
Most ( All ) of the problems with the current (Smart)TV are those who
manufacture them aren't Software company. They may not necessarily make bad
TV, after all we are only left with a few Display Panel manufacturer to choose
from. But they simply give up OS update / software development after they are
shipped, (this is also true to most IoT Devices.) And in the case they do ship
and update, this is an example what we got from Samsung.

Luckily, there is finally leaks that Apple (0) may be making its own TV Set
(1), instead of STB. And even Benedict Evans changes his tone on the subject.
(2)

I never buy the argument that Apple should not enter the TV market because it
is low margin, slow replacement cycle, and small unit volume. Because that
would means Apple stop making its Magic Keyboard, Mouse, Router.

Xiaomi 60" 4K TV Set using LG Panel are sold for ~$750 USD in China. If we
assume TV Sets in China, due to fierce competition are all selling at Zero net
profits, there is no reason why Apple cant sell the "same" TV set with its
tvOS for $1K. And it would still sell well.

[0]Apple may not be the best Software company, but software update for their
Appliance, AirPod, AirPort etc has been very decent so far in their History.

[1][https://twitter.com/VenyaGeskin1/status/897741302573535232](https://twitter.com/VenyaGeskin1/status/897741302573535232)

[2][https://twitter.com/BenedictEvans/status/899715811278966784](https://twitter.com/BenedictEvans/status/899715811278966784)

[3][http://www.mi.com/mitv3/60/](http://www.mi.com/mitv3/60/)

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abhi3
As we speak, Google's OTA Android updates are bricking thousands of $600 Nexus
6P as well and all the press cares about is hyping Pixel 2.

~~~
zachberger
I owned a Nexus 6P since near launch. It was great when it worked but it went
through 4 RMAs. After that the next time I had issues I asked for a refund
from Google Play and they gave it to me. Paid for (some of) my new Galaxy S8+

~~~
abhi3
Lucky that you live in a country with strong consumer protection culture and
had to deal directly with google.

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coldcode
Smart TVs are dumb TVs waiting to happen. Really today all you need is a
completely dumb TV which just takes HDMI inputs and displays video.

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synicalx
I hate crowd funding with a passion, but even I would "back" a GOOD 4K Dumb TV
that came in sizes larger than 50" at a reasonable price. I'll even pre-order
the GoTY or whatever if it has 5 or more HDMI ports, and I'll keep my mouth
shut about crowd funding for at least 12 months if it's user serviceable to
some extent.

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jaclaz
I have always wondered how much extra cost would be to provide a very basic
"it just works without any fancy stuff" failsafe boot option.

Since all these TV's are - more or less - Linux boxes, it should be no issue
to have a kind of dual boot, or a "reset" button with a "basic firmware".

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myrandomcomment
I had 2 Vizo TVs that I loved. Got a new one and it was crap. The software
required me to use a phone app to set it up! It went back to the store. It is
pretty hard to find a TV without crapware. The key is to find one that you can
setup with the remote and then disable the Wifi/Ethernet.

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hbcondo714
This is why I still use a HTPC

