

Google’s New Private Ferry Won’t Defuse Tension Over Buses - maaarghk
http://www.wired.com/business/2014/01/google-ferry/?cid=16797234

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ebiester
It's simple: Bulldoze Mountain View and de-suburbify it. That, or move the
graves out of Colma and turn it into a second Hong Kong, because we don't have
many options.

People want to live in the temperate area of the bay. Younger people, in
general, aren't interested in the suburbs anymore, and that leaves SF and
Oakland.

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muzz
Parts of Mountain View are actually being bulldozed and re-built with higher
density. The shopping center at San Antonio / El Camino for example.

There is plenty of infill redevelopment going on within a few miles of the
Googleplex, but of course building housing takes longer than printing job
offer letters.

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lutorm
This talk of "Google taking from the city without giving anything back" seems
bizarre to me. What is Google taking? People are free to live where ever they
want, and it's not Google's fault.

And how about all the economic activity that these people bring to the city?

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jeduan
This refers to the Google buses using the bus stops which are usually reserved
to the Muni buses only.

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fatjokes
I see your point but it has to be more than that. These protestors must see
that it's better to share these stops than to have extra cars on the street,
or more crowding on the already shitty public transit.

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lotso
The sentiment is that they are taking away housing options from people who
have lived in SF for years and not only contributing to the gentrification of
the community, but not even giving back or participating in it as well.

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hnriot
And those people that complain are probably google users. I say fuck em!
Google owes SF nothing, people live there by their own choosing, not because
of anything google did, but just that SF is a great place to live (no polar
vortex for one!) As for Oakland, I can only imagine that the injection of
wealth by google employes spending some of their income in the east bay would
be a good thing, it sure needs it.

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Zhenya
Why do people think this has anything to do with the bus protests? Can't
Google be trying to find a more efficient way to get their employees to work
ergo getting more labor out of their salaried employees?

<code> We certainly don’t want to cause any inconvenience to SF residents, and
we’re trying alternative ways to get Googlers to work,” </code>

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melling
How about bringing the office closer to them. Put a Google office in Oakland
near a Bart station?

[http://www.bart.gov/stations](http://www.bart.gov/stations)

People won't complain if Oakland starts to gentrify, right? Maybe Google,
Twitter, Facebook, etc can work out a deal with the city to get tax breaks.
It's a win for everyone.

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tomkarlo
The protests over gentrification that turned into brick-throwing were _in_
Oakland. I can't imagine they'd prefer _more_ people living there because of a
short commute.

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melling
Well, is there anywhere on the map that is suitable?

[http://www.bart.gov/stations](http://www.bart.gov/stations)

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smtddr
Like I said[1] in another comment here, I think a big source of the problem is
that BART doesn't reach enough spots. We need more spots on that map.

1\.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7028107](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7028107)

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melling
Sure but that'll take a decade, if not two. It takes forever to build these
types of systems in America, especially California.

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mmanfrin
I can generally empathize with most movements, even if I disagree -- one can
take a look at the goal and see the reason, no matter how misguided. This is
not one of those times. I sincerely don't get how Google/Tech are the targets
of hate. I can understand people upset over them using muni stops, but
breaking windows of busses in west Oakland, and getting mad at ferries?

Can someone explain this to me? Why is the anger directed at tech?

~~~
mpyne
The logic as I understand it is quite straightforward. Google could have it
employees use public transit to serve the mass transit need. This is what is
done in NYC and DC, _for the most part_. An interesting exception being DoD
shuttle buses that run from e.g. the Pentagon metro stop to nearby other
military offices (this despite the Arlington bus transit system being arguably
superior).

I'm assuming Google's problem with that is that the public transit sucks over
there, but it will never get fixed by building out an entirely separate mass
transit system. On the other hand I'm not sure how you magically fix their
mass transit just by _wanting_ to be on those buses. Even if Google funds it
I'm not sure how it's guaranteed those funds go toward fixing mass transit
quickly (and sustainably).

TL;DR: They're mad because public transit would be better for everybody if Mr.
Moneybags would actually have his cadre of Baby Moneybagses ride the public
transit too. They're not Luddites though, they'd be fine with tech if it
wasn't making a caste system.

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jey
This is clearly not the real problem. It's supposedly a symbol of the real
problem, but I don't understand what that is. Supposedly something to do with
entitlement and income disparity.

I was most able to understand this on an emotional level in this article:
[http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2013/12/17/251992...](http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2013/12/17/251992536/security-
guards-at-big-tech-companies-struggle-with-low-pay)

~~~
mpyne
Perhaps. I'd have to dive waaaay deeper than I have time to to sort our
rhetoric from the underlying issues of contention. I'd be interested as to why
they fixate on Google in particular for income disparity but it wouldn't
surprise me either.

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jfb
I think the ferry idea is interesting, because the Bay is totally
underutilized. I used to live in the Mission and work in Oakland, and I'd just
bike to the ferry terminal. Aside from being a relaxing way to spend your
morning commute, you have an alternate to BART or driving. Why shouldn't
Peninsula and South Bay communities have the same access to ferries?

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suyash
Ferry idea is pretty inefficient actually since neither Googleplex is by the
bay where the ferry can drop off nor do all googlers live near the Piers in
the city. Taking bus from Redwood city to MV and then back from Ferry landing
to home in SF is a big time waster. I think if the Bus deal works out with the
city, that would make most sense.

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Patrick_Devine
The Googleplex _is_ by the bay, it's just that the bay is pretty silted in
around Mountain View, and there's a nature park where the ferry would come in.
Historically, there used to be a boat landing right next to where GOOG is
which was built by the Rengstorff family. Here's a link:
[http://www.ci.mtnview.ca.us/services/learn_about_our_city/ci...](http://www.ci.mtnview.ca.us/services/learn_about_our_city/city_centennial.asp)

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hasker
Maybe they could just write a check to electrify the caltrain a few years
faster: [http://sonic.net/~mly/Caltrain-
Electrification/electrificati...](http://sonic.net/~mly/Caltrain-
Electrification/electrification-qa.html) . I never got why it has taken CA so
long to make this happne.

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VladRussian2
after protests against ferry, the next mode of transportation will be a
private plane i guess, something like Osprey. Or may be submarine.

~~~
misnome
Personal quadrocopters, flying googlers to and from home?

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VladRussian2
yep, looking at the prototypes like e-Volo, one can try to imagine the Bay
Area skies in 5 years.

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Cyclone_
I think that the only way that these protestors will be happy is if people who
work at Google or Facebook just curl up in a ball and die.

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outside1234
defuse? a new superyacht is just going to make this worse. i mean seriously,
why can't they take caltrain?

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tomkarlo
"Improving Bay Area Economy Pushing Caltrain Ridership To Limit"
[http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/11/29/caltrain-may-
be-...](http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/11/29/caltrain-may-be-reaching-
ridership-capacity-as-bay-area-economy-improves/)

And that's at just ~54,000 daily riders. The big tech companies on the
peninsula must have well over 100,000 employees.

