
Cory Doctorow is fighting back against Amazon's Audible - raybb
https://www.fastcompany.com/90549199/why-this-author-is-taking-a-stand-against-amazons-audiobook-monopoly
======
hoistbypetard
IMO the coolest thing about this kickstarter didn't even get a mention in the
fastcompany article.

One of the premiums is, for people who donate $10000 or more, an opportunity
to commission another story set in this universe based on a mutually agreed
writing prompt.

He's offering 5 of those, and 3 have been claimed. That's brilliant.

Think what a windfall that could be for some writers. This is the first time
I've noticed anyone trying this model. It's easy to imagine that it could work
well for some creators (not necessarily only writers) with a small but ardent
and growing fan base.

~~~
aasasd
That's just writing-for-commission. I think that model is quite widespread
among small-scale writers, of the Tumblr sort: with fanfics and such. At
least, I know that _artists_ can rake in quite some monies if they draw in a
modern web-hipster style and agree to portray someone's fantasies.
Specifically porn fantasies, and more specifically furry porn fantasies.

~~~
082349872349872
Compare
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_of_Venus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_of_Venus)

~~~
klondike_klive
I find it amusing that the cover photo of "Delta of Venus" is attributed to
Richard Merkin. A merkin is a pubic wig.

------
sam_lowry_
I've long bemoaned the sorry state of English audiobooks in comparison to
Russian audiobooks.

Audiobook interpreters like Игорь Князев or Александр Клюквин are household
names to Russian speakers. Can any English speaker remember the name of the
interpreter of their favourite audiobook? Only when it's the author himself, I
guess. And only because of the abysmal quality.

There were once radio plays, but with the demise of radio, audio plays barely
exist nowadays in English while they still strive in Russian.

This largely due to the difference in markets. English-speaking market is
dominated by corporations and is severely policed.

Russian-speaking market is grassroots, uncensored and abundant in small
producers / new names.

P.S. Aside from the hard-to-find recordings from 1960..1990ies, French
audiobooks are even worse.

~~~
aasasd
I fell like you're kidding, since my experience is pretty much the opposite,
and precisely for the reason that narrators in English are professionals. Some
names: William Dufris, Wil Wheaton, Nigel Planer (namely his narrations of
‘Discworld’). Scott Brick, mentioned nearby, is good—but his narrations of
Asimov have the spirit of 50s' over-the-top actors and TV announcers.

Also narrators in the West are often voice actors by trade, or just actors of
theatre and film doing voice work on the side. E.g. Steven Fry's narration of
the ‘Harry Potter’ novels is gorgeous, Tim Curry's of ‘A Series Of Unfortunate
Events’ is also very good, Jeremy Irons' voice and demeanor is a perfect fit
for Nabokov's mood and writerly lyricism in ‘Lolita’.

Generally, I went through quite a bunch of unknown-to-me narrators, and had
few qualms—whereas in Russian it's a gamble whether a reading will be
tolerable. ‘Grassroots’ narrators sometimes have quirks that they apparently
consider charming, but in practice are off-putting. Or narrators break into
stereotypical kitschy voices, especially with old-time material like
Dostoevsky: e.g. for orthodox priest characters. Or the production is just
crappy.

Notably, best narrators in Russian seem to be either professionals hired by
proper publishers, or straight up actors. Namely, Mikhail Gorevoy, Alexey
Bagdasarov, Evgeny Ternovsky (Михаил Горевой, Алексей Багдасаров, Евгений
Терновский). And for example, the magnificent many-voices narration of ‘The
Good Soldier Švejk’ by Bagdasarov, Alexey Kortnev and others. Vladimir
Samoilov's reading of ‘The Gulag Archipelago’ is incredibly good and touching
on a whole different level, and he seems to be an old-time Soviet actor.
Klukvin is also a treat to the ear, but again when the production quality is
there, like with ‘Master and Margarita’.

~~~
Sophistifunk
> but his narrations of Asimov have the spirit of 50s' over-the-top actors and
> TV announcers

This sounds magnificent, and definitely the way I want to listen to Asimov.

~~~
aasasd
It seems I was mistaken, rechecked my notes now: it was Larry McKeever's
narration of Asimov that I listened to, and which definitely sounds like it
was recorded in the 80s (Goodreads says that I guessed the decade right).

McKeever apparently was no small name too: “was an actor, narrator, and
recording artist. He narrated hundreds of books. For more than 15 years, he
contributed monthly to Braille Monitor, the leading publication of the
National Federation of the Blind, and became known as the “voice of the
blind.”

------
riffnote
I'll take this opportunity to recommend Downpour, an Audible alternative I
use. No DRM, you can download your audiobooks in mp3 format:
[https://downpour.com](https://downpour.com)

~~~
elFarto
The DRM on the Audible downloads is so easy to remove, then you can have it in
whatever format you want:

    
    
       ffmpeg -activation_bytes <your magic bytes> -i inputfile.aax -vn -c:a copy output.m4a
    

You'll need to search around for how to find out your magic bytes, but it's
not difficult.

~~~
kick
Congratulations, you've committed a felony. That's what Doctorow's protesting:
that Amazon forces you to commit a felony to do something as basic as changing
a file format. He points this out in his Kickstarter:

 _What 's more, Audible won't allow you to sell your audiobooks through their
store unless you allow them to wrap your books in their DRM, which cannot be
removed without committing a felony under Section 1201 of the Digital
Millennium Copyright Act. Every audiobook you buy from Audible is locked to
Amazon's platform...forever. They can revoke access to the book (they've done
this with Kindle ebooks, starting with -- I shit you not -- George Orwell's
Nineteen Eighty-Four... You can't make this stuff up!)._

~~~
m463
It kind of depends on the location of the commenter.

He could live in a country without those pesky US laws or be posting from
international waters.

~~~
bad_user
It’s a felony in Europe too.

~~~
DanBC
No.

In the UK it's only a criminal offence if it's done as part of business, or
you do it so much you prejudicially affect the rights holders. This is why eg
people who buy a DVD player can change it to region free mode (they're not
committing a criminal offence) but the shop who sells the player to you can't
tell you how to do it (they would be committing a criminal offence).

Read "F2296 Devices designed to circumvent copy-protection" and "F4296ZA
Circumvention of technological measures", and contrast those with
"296ZBDevices and services designed to circumvent technological measures".

[https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/48/part/VII/crossh...](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/48/part/VII/crossheading/devices-
designed-to-circumvent-copyprotection)

------
edanm
Honestly, I respect Cory Doctorow for sticking to his principles and doing
something that is sure to hurt financially. Unfortunately, like many other
people, I only ever listen to audiobooks on Audible, and if something isn't
there - I won't listen to it. This is rare enough that it almost never happens
- and my list of books to read is long enough that I will never ever run out
of things I want to read.

I've actually never read Cory Doctorow's books (yet!), so I'm obviously not
the people he imagines as the prime market for this in any case.

~~~
mjburgess
It's not clear to me that this is "sure to hurt".

Whilst dressed up in the language of principle it is, in economic terms, just
another creative whose reputation provides for a "pre-sold" market he is able
to exploit for greater personal profit.

Pretty standard: Louis CK was the first mover in comedy on this; pop artists
are following.

The "basic internet" works extremely well as a dumb & free distribution
channel if you don't need to build an audience.

I'm not saying Cory is insincere, but I am unconvinced his sincerity would
hold were he a budding author. On the surface at least, it just reads like yet
another artist hamstrung by their distributor whose reputation has superseded
their need.

If one were to be even more cynical, as Cory himself admits, you could see the
whole anti-amazon complaint as a mere marketing tactic. It is, in any case,
/why/ this has succeeded and why we are talking about it.

~~~
webmaven
_> I'm not saying Cory is insincere, but I am unconvinced his sincerity would
hold were he a budding author. On the surface at least, it just reads like yet
another artist hamstrung by their distributor whose reputation has superseded
their need._

Umm... Cory has been doing this sort of thing (such as releasing his novels as
gratis+libre ebooks in multiple formats) from the very beginning (2003), eg.:

[https://craphound.com/down/download/](https://craphound.com/down/download/)

You can find them freely (and legally) distributed by various 3rd parties:

[http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/3826](http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/3826)

[https://manybooks.net/authors/doctorow.html](https://manybooks.net/authors/doctorow.html)

[http://www.feedbooks.com/author/93](http://www.feedbooks.com/author/93)

~~~
mjburgess
You might find this a bit dismissive/cynical but i wonder whether that early
phase can be explained also.

There's two relevant strategies to an audience/market here: "open source"
(/esteem/reputation) and "taste-maker"/brand/distributor.

The free-to-read reputation-led strategy does not earn you anything in the
early phase -- so you have to have a job elsewhere. But you build
esteem/reputation more easily: more readers. If you do that well, you reap the
rewards later by by-passing the taste-maker channels.

This requires early-career funding from elsewhere. If you cannot get that
funding you need to rely on distributors to earn anything at all.

/Therefore/ I wonder whether this reputation-led anti-tastemaker ethos really
is just selecting for wealth (of one kind or another).

If so, yes Cory isn't a mere opportunist, sure. But his position seems to
presuppose early-career privileges others do not have: in this sense he was
never a "budding author" as I meantt it.

My point was that as a person starting out /and relying on distributors for
income/ you cannot really have this view.

~~~
webmaven
No "budding author" relies on their income from writing at the very beginning,
since it is approximately zero, usually requiring a day job, but sure,
independent wealth (or a nest-egg, or a supportive spouse, or some source of
passive income) makes the transition to writing full time easier, assuming it
can be done at all. The same can be (and has been) said of founding a startup,
or getting an advanced degree.

------
Red_Leaves_Flyy
The kick stater campaign is here:
[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/doctorow/attack-
surface...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/doctorow/attack-surface-
audiobook-for-the-third-little-brother-book/rewards)

I'm very curious to know what the original ending of little brother was. Sad
to say it's sold out, and even if it weren't, I don't have 1k to find out. I
hope we can all find out eventually.

~~~
kkdsafjid
Shouldn't it be available as a free download somewhere?

~~~
e12e
Seems unlikely - at least until someone receives via the KS and scans it:

> The first draft of Little Brother had a VERY different ending. No one except
> my editor and my agent have even seen it. I will hand-copy it for you in my
> atrocious handwriting and mail it to you to use as you see fit.

~~~
kkdsafjid
Ah didn't know that story, thought it was just about the first book.

------
rrauenza
I'm confused and haven't found an answer in the comments yet -- he won't
release the audiobook on Amazon because of DRM -- but he is releasing the
ebook on Amazon? Isn't that also DRM?

Is he just picking his battles one by one? Or is somehow the Amazon ebook DRM
acceptable whereas the audio isn't?

(Genuinely curious...)

~~~
trissylegs
> For traditional e-books, Amazon lets publishers offering titles on Kindle
> decide whether or not to include DRM.

------
TekMol
Speaking of audiobooks ..

Is there a good place to buy audiobooks as simple MP3s?

~~~
Wowfunhappy
Yes there is! My go-to's at the moment are libro.fm and downpour.com.

Google Play also offers downloads but it tends to be more expensive, assuming
you're making use of Libro and Downpour's credit system.

~~~
TekMol
I looked at libro.fm now, but I don't understand what I get if I buy an
"Audiobook" over there. The word "mp3" seems to appear nowhere on the site.

The situation is similar, though slightly better on downpour.com. At least
they say "digital download". But not _what_ you can download after you buy.
They mention mp3s on their FAQ page. So it might be worth a try. But I would
feel more comfortable if I really knew what I buy before I buy.

~~~
Wowfunhappy
Libro.fm gives you a .zip containing MP3 files.

Downpour lets you choose between an .m4b (an Apple format using aac audio,
basically an mp4) and .mp3's.

Both websites say explicitly in the FAQ that all downloads are DRM-Free,
although libro.fm makes a bigger deal out of it. If there's a screenshot or
something that would make you feel more comfortable about what you're getting,
let me know...

------
forbiddenvoid
I understand the issues with DRM. I respect Cory's position.

But honestly, Audible is how I listen to audiobooks. If it's not there, I'm
not going to buy it. I've pretty much transitioned all of my casual,
entertainment reading to audio (still using physical/digital for more
technical reading).

~~~
kick
What was the point of this comment? You listen using a service that abuses its
users and you want everyone to know it, sure, but...there's literally no
substance to the comment. It's pure fluff. You didn't even explain _why_ or
give any reasoning whatsoever. Just, "I do [thing]."

~~~
chrisseaton
> You listen using a service that abuses its users

It doesn't abuse me. It makes my life net better than it was before I used it.

This is a really important point for you - many people value what they
practically get from a service - not abstract concepts of freedom.

What I care about is getting to listen to the _book_. I don't care about your
DRM problems. I don't care about file formats. I care about the words that the
author wrote going into my head. That's what I came for. If they give me that
I'm a happy customer.

~~~
bo1024
You might find these funny and/or thought provoking:

[https://xkcd.com/743/](https://xkcd.com/743/)

[https://xkcd.com/488/](https://xkcd.com/488/)

[https://xkcd.com/129/](https://xkcd.com/129/)

[https://xkcd.com/511/](https://xkcd.com/511/)

------
4AoZqrH2fsk5UB
I would like to point out that there is a thriving torrent scene for ebooks
and audiobooks.

~~~
vaccinator
libgen for audio books?

------
aasasd
Dunno how I'm expected to read that article while a jumpy vid is playing next
to it on the right, being nailed to the screen despite my scrolling, and a
keyboard-focus-stealing popup opens on the left, covering the content.

Regarding Doctorow, afaik he took the Audible-avoiding course years ago,
negotiating with his publisher that the audiobooks are to not have DRM. I went
through his books in 2018, so the story must be at least that old.

~~~
dcow
Does your browser have a reader mode? Firefox and Safari do and it works
wonderfully. I use it all the time in situations like this.

------
teekert
I've been bitten by DRM and I know people that have lost music they paid for
because of it. I once ran into a DRMed version of Little Brother, reported it
and got a personal response from Cory. I think that is pretty cool. He's
definitely one of my heroes and I love to support these kind of initiatives.

------
bawana
So when is the app coming out that reads the epub of my choice in the natural
voice of the narrator I like? You cant tell me that Google didn't already show
this a couple of years ago - it was making restaurant reservations back then.

------
chrisseaton
> to sidestep the walled garden of Amazon-owned audiobook platform Audible

Aren't all stores a 'walled garden'? They decide what they want to sell.
Curation. Seems completely reasonable to me?

> Instead, Doctorow is selling the recorded version of the book through a
> Kickstarter campaign, and it will also be available through non-Amazon
> vendors like Google’s Play store and libro.fm

So there's multiple competing options he can already use? What on earth is the
problem here?

~~~
choward
> Aren't all stores a 'walled garden'?

I'd call them "gardens". I'd called them "walled" if they use DRM and force
you to consume it in their garden.

~~~
chrisseaton
> if they use DRM and force you to consume it in their garden

Like a restaurant without a takeaway service? How evil.

~~~
choward
Not even close to being the same at all. For starters, I'm sure they'll give
you a togo box if you don't finish unless it's a buffet. When you "buy" a book
you should be able to read it whenever you want forever and not rely on the
company you bought it from not going out of business. Or they may add ads to
the app you HAVE to use to consume it. With food, you're paying for that one
experience of eating the food. It's not like the company can take that away
from you in the future. It's not supposed to last forever. It's one and done.

~~~
chrisseaton
> I'm sure they'll give you a togo box if you don't finish

In the UK restaurants don’t do this so your surety is misplaced.

> When you "buy" a book you should be able to read it whenever you want
> forever and not rely on the company you bought it from not going out of
> business.

That’s what you care about. What I care about is most convenient access now.
Why is your priority the true one and mine a result of abuse?

~~~
a1369209993
> What I care about is most convenient access now.

Lack of DRM _is_ most convenient. (Unless corporate abuse has made it
impossible to use [whichever format is most convenient] without applying DRM,
obviously.)

------
ThinkBeat
I guess it is good publicity and easy money.

I dont see how an established author like Cory needs a Kickstarter to finance
an audiobook.

I think he can do easily on his own, and have various companies queuing
outside his door to finance or publish it.

If you were an unknown author and none of the established publishers were
interested I see that as a Kickstarter candidate but then raising funding
would be difficult.

Cory has all sorts of means og financing and getting paid

------
superkuh
Text to speech that you can run on your own computer is not great but it gets
the job done without involving audible. I personally like it because it
doesn't have the interpretation that human readers bring to stories.

Of course I still find myself _still_ battling DRM for even text ebooks just
to get access to the raw text itself for use with command line tools.

~~~
ebg13
> _Text to speech that you can run on your own computer is not great_

Understatement of the century.

> _I personally like it because it doesn 't have the interpretation that human
> readers bring to stories._

I suspect that you're in the minority for audiobook listeners. Does this mean
that you don't like movies because of the interpretation that human actors,
directors, videographers, and composers bring to the scripts? I don't enjoy
_ever_ narrator, but there are a lot of really fantastic human narrators out
there.

~~~
superkuh
> does this mean that you don't like movies because of the interpretation

Pretty much everyone acknowledges the books are almost always better. Part of
the reason is this, yes.

~~~
ebg13
> _Pretty much everyone acknowledges the books are almost always better. Part
> of the reason is this, yes._

It's usually not the reason, though. People say "the book is better" because
films necessarily have to remove a bunch of content in order to fit within a
movie timeframe, which requires changing the narrative arc. That's an entirely
unrelated issue.

------
LibertyBeta
Cory, first and foremost, sticks to his guns and writes what he believes. Glad
to see this getting some press.

He makes me want to ditch my kindle for a kobo, but the book buying experience
is just not as good/workable for me along with rebuying my catalogue. Not to
mention cost of hardware.

------
kkdsafjid
Isn't a paper book also kind of DRMed? It's pretty difficult to copy? You
could put it on a photo copier, but then I guess you could also tape record an
audible book to copy it.

I respect that he wants his books to be available without DRM, but why not
simply offer a way for audible shoppers to download a DRM free copy from
another source?

------
thayne
Good for him!

------
throwawaynothx
I find it hilarious the Ebook is bundled with massive amounts of DRM and hes
fine having that on amazon, But NOOOO not the audio book?

~~~
hutattedonmyarm
It’s not though? You can get the ebooks DRM free directly from him and amazon
offers the ability to not use their DRM for ebooks

------
scrame
Cory Doctorow has been irrelevant for 15 years. There is a good case to be
made for people not reading any more, and a concern of amazon owning the
listening time of people like they own the delivery and server space, but a
marketing gimmick from the former editor of boingboing.com aint gonna turn the
tide.

~~~
m463
I think science fiction authors never become irrelevant.

They tend to grow in popularity like new technologies - overestimated in the
short term, underestimated in the long term.

