
How I Landed A $50/hr Side Gig With Little Effort - zackattack
http://www.zacharyburt.com/2010/02/how-i-landed-a-50hr-side-gig-with-very-little-effort-how-it-relates-to-picking-up-chicks/
======
efsavage
The fact that the article conflated dating advice into job searching, and
mentioned hopping on a longboard would normally be more than enough for me to
abort and ignore, but there is a very important nugget in there; that how you
carry and project yourself is such a big part of having an enjoyable career.

~~~
lsc
Self confidence is useful for making money as a contractor, but I know I felt
a lot better about myself after I productized my work and thus largely made
apparent self-confidence irrelevant.

------
subwindow
$50 an hour is pretty good for 22. At that age I was making $30 an hour and
ecstatic to be getting that much. Even that seemed astronomical compared to
the $12 I was making two years before. Now, of course, all of those seem like
piddly sums compared to the $75-100 an hour I bring in now as a full-time
consultant at the age of 26.

While age and experience has a lot to do with why my rate has climbed so high
and so fast, mostly it is due to confidence. You have to ignore your inner
critic that says you are not worth $12/30/50/75 an hour, and honestly consider
what your time is worth. Would you trade an extra hour of sleep or an extra
hour with your girlfriend for the price of a meal at Chili's? A tank of gas? A
shitty coffee table at Ikea?

There's a spectrum there, and you _have_ to place yourself as high in the
spectrum as possible. Don't stop going higher- even if people laugh at you.
Two days before I landed my first gig at $75 an hour I had a recruiter laugh
at me and that rate. Ignore them. Trust yourself. Trust your abilities. Charge
a good price for your time. Because after all, time is all we have. Make them
pay for it.

~~~
olegk
Recruiters are the worst. You'd think it's their job to get you the highest
paying job out there, but it's quite the opposite. Their goal is to sell you
as fast as possible, regardless of the rate.

That's why you should never listen to recruiters telling you that you want too
much. It's bullshit.

~~~
jayliew
Actually, more often than not recruiter's best interest is against yours.
Recruiters in companies have one job: to get as high of a talent as possible -
for as low cost as possible. Right? Everybody is shopping for the best
bargain.

~~~
camccann
I think he was talking about recruiting firms, who (I think) typically get a
commission for successful placement, proportional to the wages of the employee
in question.

So while theoretically they have an incentive to get you the best salary
possible, in practice they do better if they place more people at decent
wages.

~~~
commonsense
There are multiple business models. Witness:

1\. They take % of base first year salary on W2 - their incentives are aligned
with yours. A good deal.

2\. They take % of base hourly rate - their incentives are also aligned with
yours. A good deal.

However:

3\. They receive a flat hourly cap - their incentives are opposite yours.
They're trying to fuck you.

4\. Flat retainer - their incentives are technically neutral, but the lower
they get you onboard, the better they look because their client is spending
less. They're trying to fuck you.

~~~
sshumaker
Unfortunately, your interests are never really aligned.

Ask yourself this question? Who is actually the recruiter's customer? As in,
who pays the bills?

That's right, it's the employer. You're not their customer. The employer is. A
recruiter's goal is to fill the open positions out there with their
candidates. There's a lot of competition for most positions, both from other
recruiters and employees who apply independently. So they'd much rather short
you as an employee on salary then risk having someone else hired for the
position entirely.

As a hiring manager, I was on the other end of this practice. I can't tell you
the number of times a recruiter emailed me something like "He says he wants
90, but he'll actually take 80".

If you know the companies you want to work for, don't use a recruiter.

~~~
commonsense
> There's a lot of competition for most positions

Don't go for most positions. If you're a run-of-the-mill developer, of course
you'll get shit wages. Learn something unique. Something that takes effort to
learn.

> I can't tell you the number of times a recruiter emailed me something like
> "He says he wants 90, but he'll actually take 80".

Of fucking _course_ they'll say that. You can always assume the recruiter will
not keep anything in confidence - the dominating strategy in this situation is
to tell them your minimum and NOT waver from that. With exception given to a
+/- 5% counter-offer. Once you budge, they know you're weak. Give an inch, and
they'll take a mile. The business managers who hire people can smell weakness
from a mile away - it's their JOB to capitalize on that weakness. That's what
they went to school for. It's what they live and breathe on a day to day
basis. You won't be able to empathize with them until you run your own
company, whether it be product or consulting. It's capitalism in the raw.

The problem is that most people who are desperate for a job think the offer on
the phone is the last one they'll get, which is something of a self-fulfilling
prophecy. Grow some fucking balls and the entire post-hoc world will open up
to you.

------
dabent
"I experimented with raising my prices super high..."

The best thing I did was to try that years ago. One of my bosses told me he
did that and not only found work, but respect, because his employers perceived
his value and opinions as being worth more. If you have the skills, you can
find yourself on a whole new level of employment.

~~~
ErrantX
A year or so ago I was looking for a polite way to turn a load of work down
from certain clients - so I set my rate 8 times what I was currently charging
on the premise it would put them off without me outright saying no.

Complete failure there because they happily wanted to pay it (and you cant
turn it down then :()

~~~
khafra
That has some nice side effects, though.

------
tocomment
By the way, if anyone is interested in finding gigs on Craigslist, elance,
etc, try out my learning gig filter: <http://www.gigbayes.com/>

You do have to be patient with it. It takes 20-30 ratings for it to start
knowing your preferences.

------
philipn
Wouldn't $50/hr be pretty low for NYC software engineering?

~~~
illumin8
It sounds like he also found the job on Craigslist. I've found that most of
the jobs on Craigslist are wishful thinking... must have 10+ years of
CSS/JS/HTML5/J2EE/C/C+/C++ - salary is $15/hr.

~~~
nir
Don't forget the 10+ years iPhone dev experience (we'll pay you in equity)

------
matrix
Sounds like someone is a Steve Pavlina fan...

I find Pavlina to be interesting, but sadly he went w-a-y off into cuckoo land
a while back.

~~~
adamhowell
Man, you aren't kidding.

Polyphasic sleep? Fine. Conscious growth? Um, ok. Polygamy? Woah, what?!

~~~
michaelkeenan
Be polite! Polyamory is common enough among geeks and SF area types that there
must be a few HN-reading polyamorists. It's brave of Pavlina to write about
tabooed topics[1]. And it can't be any more fun for polyamorists to encounter
incredulity and derision than it was for the first open homosexuals or
interracial couples.

[1] cf. <http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html>

~~~
jodrellblank
Is it:

Geeks: Polyamory? -> {Manuel Garcia O'Kelly and his extended family, Moon
Colonies, Heinlein, good associations}

Non-Geeks: Polyamory? -> {Hippy communes, commun...ism, cold war, evil, bad
associations}

~~~
pyre
> _Non-Geeks: Polyamory? - > {Hippy communes, commun...ism, cold war, evil,
> bad associations}_

Yes. Because that's what those Russians were doing on the other side of the
Iron Curtain... having massive orgies.

~~~
camccann
_Yes. Because that's what those Russians were doing on the other side of the
Iron Curtain... having massive orgies._

Well that _does_ put a slightly different spin on "From each according to his
ability, to each according to his need".

------
westbywest
Perhaps this approach works in an area saturated both with capital for would-
be employers to spend, and with the contractors themselves, so that
competition allows such negotiation. Indeed, NYC is undoubtedly such an area.

In other parts of the country, especially during these times, an area can
truly have enough of a cumulative lack of available capital, that being hired
at all is considered an accomplishment.

I can do freelance work that in other cities that fetches $100/hr handily, but
my Midwest city shelters few people who can pay that, regardless of my poise
or professionalism.

------
workingstiff
My 3 favorite things to say to recruiters:

1\. Bartenders make more than what you are offering me.

2\. According to last year's 10K SEC filing, you made $X Billion, and you
can't afford me?

3\. You must be accustomed to dealing with desperate people, not talented
people.

~~~
JacobAldridge
Wish I had the cojones - here are the 3 least favourite responses I'd expect:

1\. Sure, but bartenders have people skills

2\. According to last month's data, our pool of potential employees has 10.5%
unemployment, and you can afford to live on food stamps?

3\. There are many talented and desperate ways to reject your application, but
you've probably heard them all.

~~~
commonsense
You're assuming that I don't have other clients. That's the #1 difference
between someone who makes money, and someone who works at the mercy of their
employers.

> 1\. Sure, but bartenders have people skills

No they don't. They serve drinks in very loud, noisy bars where everyone is
drunk. That's the kind of bartender that makes $75k+

Furthermore, so do I. That's how I charge $150/hr.

> 2\. According to last month's data, our pool of potential employees has
> 10.5% unemployment, and you can afford to live on food stamps?

That's begging the question whether or not I am employed. I am employed. I
have other clients. I do not live on food stamps. I am currently making my
asking rate on a regular basis and have been for nearly a decade, or else I
would not be asking for it. If I were not able to make this rate, I would
lower it. This is very simple logic, although it may not be if you are viewing
it through the prism of desperation. REJECT the prism of desperation. It will
handicap you for the rest of your professional life.

> 3\. There are many talented and desperate ways to reject your application,
> but you've probably heard them all.

Really? The only one I've heard is "we can't afford you.", or "we found
someone cheaper", which really is not my problem at ALL.

You need to get those cojones, or you will be continue to be taken advantage
of. Business people actively LOOK for weak willed developers. But - believe it
or not - they respond positively to developers with balls, because they are so
unaccustomed to hearing it. This is a basic tenet of human nature that many
developers do not realize because they are too busy preoccupying themselves
with machine logic.

At some point, you need to tell yourself that you've learned enough fucking
machine logic. You're not going to be writing assembly language for these
people. You're building applications (dev and integration work, basically)
that will make them money. That frees up your brain to think of other things
like human interaction and how to sell yourself.

Humans are not machines. Business is not a logical process. It's human
interaction. When money changes hands, it's from one human (or group of
humans) to another, no matter how deep the abstracted technical logic has been
built to be.

~~~
JacobAldridge
Worth noting that I agree with your points, more so than could be conveyed
through my light-hearted parent. I'm not a developer, I'm a business coach,
and absolutely business people respond positively to applicants with
confidence / cojones.

~~~
lsc
From this end, this preference for, as you put it, "cojones" looks ridiculous.
I can't tell you how many contracting gigs I've gotten after recommending
people who were /obviously better than I am/ - Frankly, I find it disgusting
that the average business person would rather work with someone tall, arrogant
and loud than with someone who actually knows what they are doing.

------
skolor
I don't have a lot of experience programming, at least not professionally. I
tend to hack a lot of quick scripts together, and have recently started
working on some larger projects.

Anyway, I figured it would be worth giving this a shot. I went on Craigslist,
browsed through the gigs, and picked one that looked promising. I made a quick
estimate of my time, doubled it, and sent off an email to him. 6 sentences,
and I used the word "simple" in 2 of them, and I made sure to use a
"indifferent" attitude. The lister got back to me within 15 minutes saying
that my price was "too much", that he had been quoted prices for less than a
third of that. And then he proceeded to give me his number, and told me to
call him and discuss what needed to be done for the project.

Not that it means anything, but the 20 minutes I spent looking at craigslist
during my lunch break due to this post seem to have been well worth it
(although, admittedly, I barely skimmed the actual post, and just read the
comments here in detail).

------
teye
Great comments on value and scarcity in social interactions. Being conscious
of this has made me more successful too.

 _The notion of value offering is very different from value taking. Value
offering coincides with abundance mentality; value taking coincides with
scarcity mentality. When you are value offering, you really want to help the
other person. You want to present them with the truth and honestly evaluate
how you could meet their needs, rather than manipulating and micromanaging to
get your end of the deal. You create a win-win situation._

Also, sounds like someone has had some experience with pickup.

------
dbz
Older brother- I have a few questions-about- _Scarcity_.

 _"why would you care about any individual woman if you have access to a lot
of them?"_ Why not? This question makes me think of a completely faithless
relationship filled with cheating and manipulation just because caring is not
an issue.

I understand your social proof point, and I know quite well how you deal with
everything: _"I just acted naturally, without tweaking"_ , but I find this
statement misplaced, _"It’s more honest, and non-manipulative, which is
something I think we could all strive for."_ for why would one strive for non-
manipulation and honestly when one can get any girl without them -when there
are just so many fish in the sea.

Other than that, I enjoyed the post =]

Oh, and by the way, next time you argue one of my philosophies, I'm going to
quote you. _I tend to describe myself as philosophically immature for good
reason._

------
grimoire
For my last side gig I charged $100/hr. I didn't need the gig, nor did I
really want it, since I had just changed real jobs. They didn't like the
price, but went for it anyway.

------
aw3c2
Hey Zack, your site does have a problem with javascript-disabled people. It
only renders "You must have Javascript enabled to view this site."

------
sheraz
Man, that is a long way to go for a ham sandwich.

I like some of your thoughts but it I do not believe it is this complex. Maybe
the new title should be "How personal confidence affects perceived value, both
in business and in meeting chicks."

That is why you got $50 an hour. Confidence.

~~~
run4yourlives
That is the crux of it, however his post offers more value in the end than
your comment does. :-)

~~~
Psyonic
I'd disagree. While the story itself was worthwhile, the last thing we need is
more "you create your own universe (literally)" posts on HN. If this site
becomes a place where "The Secret" is given any credence, it's going to go
downhill in a hurry.

For example: "Reiterating: Other people are only projections of your own
consciousness. If you are not a friend to everyone then you are not a friend
to yourself."

This is just plain stupid. I can't say it any plainer. I hate to Godwin this
discussion, but Hitler killing millions of Jews was not a projection of
myself, and if I was alive during that time-period, I sure as hell wouldn't
have been a friend to Hitler.

I'm with him that you should look for how you can contribute, rather than take
(positive sum game vs. zero sum game), but those lessons can be taught without
the "metaphysics" and bullshit.

Last Edit: And finally, in case you don't buy into that stuff either, but
think it's basically harmless, review the case of the now arrested James
Arthur Ray: <http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20341429,00.html>

~~~
run4yourlives
>"Reiterating: Other people are only projections of your own consciousness. If
you are not a friend to everyone then you are not a friend to yourself."

Well, my approach is that you can benefit of operating in this mode, but I
don't take it literally. Agreed that the less "The Secret" bullshit is around
the better.

It might be my naivety that just assumes a non-literal interpretation of
certain passages in the text, but I suppose one should account for a literal
interpretation as well. I wouldn't imagine that would be an issue here on HN.

~~~
Psyonic
If by "operating in this mode" you mean having a generally positive attitude
and being aware that your perception of reality is subjective, I'm more or
less in agreement. That said, I'm willing to bet the author meant those
statements literally, as do a surprising number of people. I always wonder why
they choose to write anything at all, though, as by their theory they're only
telling themselves things they already know.

Addition: NiN's song "Only" could be interpreted as subjective reality (though
it's almost certainly metaphor), and it explains why they choose to project me
(and Hitler) into their world:

    
    
        Yes I am alone but then again I always was
        As far back as I can tell
        I think maybe it's because
        Because you were never really real to begin with
        I just made you up to hurt myself
    
        [x2]
        I just made you up to hurt myself, yeah
        And I just made you up to hurt myself
    
        And it worked.
        Yes it did!
    

Taken from: <http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/nineinchnails/only.html>

------
tialys
Where do you meet these kind of people? The last job I interviewed for wanted
me to work as a contractor and wanted to pay me $15/hr. When I said that was
too low to cover my costs and taxes, and was much less than I usually make, he
insisted that he pays people with years more experience just around $20, and
that he though $15 seemed fair! I'm glad he was successful, but try to
remember that results are not typical.

~~~
smcq
I've had this before, it works pretty well to say "do not contact me again"
and go on with your life as if it never happened.

~~~
maigret
And that relates well to the Girl story the author wrote :)

------
ceeing
By increasing your hourly rate you naturally start with higher expectations
from your client. In the same respect the expectations I put on _myself_ are
higher, and I see this as a way to strengthen my output by intensifying my
effort.

------
F_J_H
"All idealism is mendaciousness in the face of what is necessary." - Nietzsche

------
thinkbohemian
wow, that was long rambling and almost borderline incoherent. Latch on and
enjoy the ride. There are some gems tucked away in there:

"You can’t cheat others without cheating yourself."

------
dnsworks
You got a contract, and a low-paying one at that. This was worth a blog
posting?

All of these "How I did so and so" blog postings explaining basic life
operations are getting annoying. Look forward to my next blog posting "How I
Bought Some Organic Groceries While Only Walking A Block And A Half"

------
slig
Zack, it would be nice if you set up a twitter. I'd rather follow new posts
there than via rss.

~~~
zackattack
I think this is a reasonable request. I set up my RSS feed to publish to my
@zburt twitter account, thanks to the nifty twitterfeed.com service.

~~~
slig
Thanks!

------
grimoire
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