
The Link Between Inflammation and Depression? - Elof
https://medium.com/s/story/the-link-between-inflammation-and-depression-a6e0d5c98639
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Bucephalus355
This is very important. It’s not yet fully understood, but something is
missing yet in our understanding of inflammation.

It’s not everything, just like antibiotics weren’t everything, but progress
here will mean curing an incredible amount of human suffering.

The book linked below, a late 2015 text on Molecular Neuropharmacology, is
fascinating. Every chapter has a mention of inflammation and usually
ibuprofen. It’s that important.

Particularly fascinating is the connection with ADHD, Parkinson’s, and
Schizophrenia. All of the diseases have something to do with dysregulation of
Dopamine. In particular, it seems like Ibuprofen helps with reducing the
effects of Dopamine overload, which is essentially what Schizophrenia is. It’s
an inflammation of the mind that is somewhat similar to how we now think sugar
causes harm/inflammation. Anyway this overload eventually can lead to
underload, or Parkinson’s. ADHD individuals are often overloaded as well due
to the treatment with stimulant medication (which is good but can be abused).

I’m not kidding when I say there are Nobel prizes being left on the table here
right now.

[https://www.amazon.com/Molecular-Neuropharmacology-
Foundatio...](https://www.amazon.com/Molecular-Neuropharmacology-Foundation-
Clinical-Neuroscience/dp/0071827692)

~~~
auganov
Interesting definitely adding this to my reading list for self serving
reasons. I independently came to similar ideas about inflammation, mostly
because I have to take a lot of Ibuprofen for chronic pain and what works best
is taking some preemptively on non painful days. That is, I always tried to
think up more reasons for why this isn't a terrible idea.

~~~
wolco
tumeric might be more powerful.

~~~
meowface
Curcumin/theracurmin yes, turmetic no.

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ada1981
I suffered from suicidal depression, anxiety, mania, psychosis, paranoia,
panic attacks and more.

I flirted with diagnosis of schizoaffective disorder to bipolar.

My life was pretty out of control.

I didn’t like the outcomes I saw of people who were on meds their entire life
and I didn’t buy the story from mainstream psychiatry.

I found MDMA therapy via an underground practice and it transformed my life
over the course of a few session.

I was able to get to the root of all symptoms and heal what was beneath.

Combined with Holotropic Breathwork and NARM / somatic therapy for
integration, this approach blew anything the psychiatrists were offering out
of the water.

I’ve been experimenting with CBD and it seems to offer and even deeper level
of clarity and non-anxiety.

No psychiatric meds, no symptoms and my creative and romantic life now has
something to grown from - before this everything was in a constant cycle of
boom and bust.

~~~
cortesoft
I am very glad this worked for you, but isn't MDMA a psychiatric med?

~~~
ada1981
It’s currently in Phase 3 for PTSD after spending a couple decades in
prohibition.

It’s not a sanctioned medicine yet, and historically has been outside the
bounds of western psychiatry.

And when I mean no psychiatric meds I mean nothing ongoing.

~~~
partomniscient
Bit late to the thread, but here's a link to where I assume the poster is
referring to:

[https://maps.org](https://maps.org) (Multidisciplinary Association for
Psychedelic Studies)

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cageface
One of the best things I've ever done for my mood is to switch to a plant
based diet full of natural anti inflammatory foods. I noticed a big lift in my
mood after the first week and it's stuck with me almost two years later.

Check this video for more details:
[https://youtu.be/4xbNNxQZEgA](https://youtu.be/4xbNNxQZEgA)

~~~
_up
Did you also eat less sugar/carbs? Because I think sugar is the main culprit.

~~~
cageface
Sugar and refined carbs can also cause inflammation but I cut those out of my
diet years ago. I didn't see the real benefits until I switched to a plant
based diet.

~~~
gnulinux
I don't want to be that guy again (I've been heavily downvoted in every
nutrition threads I contributed in HN), please understand that I'm trying to
learn and improve myself. But I'm curious how did you come up with a plant-
based diet that's not high in sugar. As far as I know pretty much all (except
very few) plant based food are very high in sugar. Especially most fruits have
exorbitant amounts of fructose. I usually eat high fiber veggies (like
broccoli, brussel sprouts, soybeans etc...) but it doesn't give much variety.
Remember that most animal based food (eggs, most cheese, chicken, turkey, red
meat, fish etc) are 0 sugar. Also, nuts are low carb, high fat but they're
very high in Omega 6 (except walnut and some seeds like flaxseed) and there is
some research indicating synergy between sugar and Omega 6 for inflammation (I
can find the link if you want, but I'm too tired right now). I'm all for
veganism but I can never find a suitable vegan cookbook. People say veganism
is easy, as far as I'm concerned this is simply not true. If you go full vegan
you have absolutely no choice other than soybeans to get adequate amount of
protein. Any other protein source such as beans are very high in carbs (e.g.
600 cal of black beans have only 40g of protein (which is only 1/3 of my daily
need as a bodybuilder) but have 116g of carbs only 30g of which fiber, in my
book a very unhealthy food). And since you cannot supplement your diet with
seafood, you have very few choices of Omega 3 sources (various seeds, acai
berry, walnut come to mind).

To make myself clear: I think vegan diet is efficient, sustainable and
ethical. But there is simply no easy way to go full vegan and get enough macro
nutrients (in particular protein, and fats) without getting a lot of sugar. I
have a lot of problem with inflammation and even 5g of sugar is too much for
me, so it seems like the only plant based food I can eat are soybeans and
broccoli. Maybe I'm missing something. Care to help?

~~~
gassiss
A nutritionist/dietitian would be your best bet. But my 2c about the sugar in
fruits, they're not as bad as refined sugar because of the fiber. You have to
look at food as a whole, not as macronutrients combined together.

~~~
sridca
Nutritionists are mostly useless ; you are better off doing self-
experimentation.

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rabidrat
I have found for myself that taking Ibuprofen eases both anxiety and
depression. It's not a cure but it surprises me how much of a mental effect a
mild analgesic has.

~~~
mettamage
Would anyone have an idea why this could potentially be?

~~~
jganetsk
[https://www.mdedge.com/fedprac/article/81232/mental-
health/n...](https://www.mdedge.com/fedprac/article/81232/mental-
health/nsaids-may-reduce-depression)

~~~
fromthestart
I'd caution anyone making a link between depression and NSAIDs from that
paper. Most of those people probably climbed out of depression because they
specifically administered pain medication to subjects with osteoarthritis.
Suddenly being rid of chronic pain can be liberating.

~~~
jjb123
Rethinking this relationship is a major point of the original thread/article.

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imperio59
This psychiatrist spouting off the "serotonin imbalance" marketing speak from
big pharma like it's science is frightening. This has actually never been
proven to exist, which is why every ad for SSRIs states "the way this drug is
believed to work is...".

And then there's all the terrible side effects they never tell you about
before you start taking them, and the fact you likely won't be able to stop
using them without horrible withdrawal symptoms...

So much about psychiatry is still more akin to shamanism than actual science
and medicine it's frightening.

~~~
perseusmandate
SSRIs are known to have a substantial anti-inflammatory effect though, as well
as other drugs like Wellbutrin.

I don't know if you have actually used SSRIs but the stuff about withdrawal is
wildly overblown. Believing scare mongering about terrible side-effects and
dependence issues kept me severely depressed and is one of the biggest regrets
of my life.

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andyidsinga
so serendipitous - the other day ago I was putting down some wood flooring in
my house and hurt my back a little - something that happens from time to time
in exactly the same place - so I knew that I should get on top of it and take
a couple of ibuprofen.

So I take a the ibuprofen, and take a break for an a couple hours - and as I
noticed the back pain go away - I also noticed a distinct improvement in my
mood! I had the exact reaction described in the article "of course, your back
doesn't hurt ..duh".

The article makes me wonder if there is another explanation for the mood
improvement ..

~~~
brianwawok
The risk is your back is hurt because it’s damaged. It needs time to heal.
Taking ibuprofen hides the pain but doesn’t fix the problem in MOST cases.

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ENTP
I was diagnosed with inflammation through having a mold intolerance. Taking
cholestyramine and synapsin changed everything. The CFS dissipated and
everything seemed to come alive. The main thing that changed though was my
mind. Brain fog had gone and a much better mood.

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zzzeek
kind of a long yakkety article and not much on tangibles. Yes there's a
correlation between depression and inflammation, but there's a much bigger
bucket of potential factors going on in this area: depression, sedentary
lifestyle, sugar intake, obesity, inflammation, gut bacteria, visceral fat,
and a whole lot more. As a clinical depression sufferer, if I change any one
of those things, all the others change too. So yes keep looking into it but my
own anecdotes and reading suggest there's a more complex ecosystem than just
"inflamation == depression" going on.

~~~
perseusmandate
There have been experiments directly relating the administration of
inflammatory endotoxins to immediate depressive symptoms.

All of the stuff you mentioned pertains to inflammation. If gut bacteria is
disharmonious or not getting enough fiber it consumes intestinal mucous which
creates inflammation

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david_ar
I found Wikipedia to be more informative than this article:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sickness_behavior](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sickness_behavior)

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jeklj
Not only we don’t understand the mechanism causing depression, we don’t really
understand (as far as I am aware) why medications work or don’t work. I deal
with mild depression sometimes, but this scares me off of considering
medication for it. I’ve encountered so many horror stories of withdrawal
symptoms... you really need to be at a point of desperation to consider drugs
for it, imo.

~~~
finaliteration
I think a larger problem is that it’s such a crapshoot about which treatments
will work for a given individual, pharmaceutical or not. It took me about 10
therapists with varying backgrounds before I finally found one that would
help. It also took me trying several different medications to find a
combination that’s actually effective. It’s a lot of work and effort, and most
people suffering through depression, anxiety, or another debilitating mental
health disorder don’t have the energy to keep trying over and over again after
failing. For me it was actually a matter of life or death and needing to keep
going for my family that drove me to keep trying.

~~~
InGodsName
what worked in your case?

~~~
finaliteration
I suffer from PTSD due to childhood trauma which is ultimately the cause of my
anxiety, depression, mood swings, etc,. Right now I’m seeing a therapist who
specializes in trauma and going through EMDR (eye movement desensitization and
reprocessing) treatment. I’ve also taken Wellbutrin (anti-depressant) and
Lamictal (mood stabilizer) for the last 18 months or so.

I also just have to constantly keep busy. I fill my time with work and
activities with my family. I rarely take downtime because if I do the dread
and flashbacks rear their ugly heads.

~~~
perseusmandate
I'm also on Wellbutrin and Lamictal and think it is a very underrated
combination.

I highly recommend you read The Body Keeps The Score. Immensely insightful and
well researched book that will change the way you think about overcoming
trauma

~~~
finaliteration
That book is great! I picked it up when I started with EMDR. There are so many
things I didn’t even consider until I started seeing a therapist specializing
in PTSD and trauma and after reading that book. For the most part I didn’t
even recognize my experience as traumatic until it was presented that way to
me.

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InGodsName
We don't know about severity of the depression when we say depression.

My friend has racing thoughts, feeling tired all time, unable to move, unable
to think.

Negatives thoughts amplifying to point where nothing no longer makes sense.

Can such depression be treated?

When she was born, she had a serological conflict.

1\. She first recognized it at age 8.

2\. Now she's 18

3\. Tried sucide at 16

It's not like she doesn't want to get better. She has everything good going
for her but her body/brain isn't helping her.

Now, this article makes me wonder if she had this depression since birth and
only understood it by 8.

And wether she is still affected by antibodies eating out her cells?

Tho i don't have any real sister but she is like my own sister.

I am willing to spend all my money to see her cured from this depression. But
nothing has worked so far.

~~~
smnplk
Pardon me for saying something she has already tried. But here are some ideas.

\- put her on a strict meat & veggies only diet (without nightshades) \- Look
into low dose naltrexon therapy, there is a LDN facebook group where you can
ask questions.

Oh and of course, visit many doctors and ask them about treatment.

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_up
I am a huge fan of "Dr. Berg" on Youtube he helped me a lot with doing
Keto/OMAD correct and reducing inflammation. He also has an interesting Video
on depression.

The 6 Causes of Depression:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV5OlaPZ6C4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV5OlaPZ6C4)

Also fascinating is a lot of interesting medical knowledge he gathers by
reading patent applications.

~~~
_up
The 6 main causes he says are btw: Omega3, B12, Vit.D or B1 deficiency, too
much Cortisol or Insulin Resistance.

