
Detroit has outlawed Airbnb for R1 and R2 zoning - uptown
https://detroit.curbed.com/2018/2/8/16991266/detroit-banned-airbnb-zoning
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ejlangev
A lot of this issue seems to be people operating in bad faith. Airbnb wants
the narrative to be that most of their business is regular people renting out
a spare room to make some extra money. Certainly that's a component of their
business and one I think, and think most people would agree should be
encouraged. Airbnb unfairly plays up this angle while ignoring the fact that
many hosts are larger businesses that are taking up housing stock to run an
unregulated hotel. There are also plenty of people holding multiple leases
(especially in NYC) to rent one place out on Airbnb where you can easily make
more than the rent per month. This has some socialized costs in that it
reduces the housing supply which drives up rent for everyone else which cities
may want to avoid.

Hotels and some city people want to focus on the fact that there is unfair
competition going on but also seem to recognize that the model is a threat to
their bottom line. They seem to want defensive regulation to block all of it
rather than just the part that is truly unfair to them some of which is fixed
now that Airbnb collects and pays taxes. Not sure if they're at full parity
with the hotels in terms of taxes and feels like they should be. Of course a
city always has the option of removing these fees for everyone if they think
it's unfair.

There's plenty of hypocrisy to go around here.

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chimeracoder
> Airbnb unfairly plays up this angle while ignoring the fact that many hosts
> are larger businesses that are taking up housing stock to run an unregulated
> hotel. There are also plenty of people holding multiple leases (especially
> in NYC) to rent one place out on Airbnb where you can easily make more than
> the rent per month.

Not just "many". In New York specifically, it's literally over 50% that are
illegal, by virtue of being whole-apartment rentals. Whole-apartment rentals
of less than 30 days are not legal.

Ironically, many of the people that AirBNB used to use in their PR campaign as
the faces of the "little guy" using AirBNB to "make their rent" were actually
people who lived in rent-controlled apartments, which is (almost always)
illegal in practice, even if the whole apartment is not being rented.

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bradleyjg
Good luck with enforcement. AirBnB being mostly illegal in NYC hasn’t stopped
us from (AFAIR) being the number one source of revenue for them. Nothing seems
to deter them. Maybe some city should start looking at what criminal laws
might apply (like RICO perhaps).

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matte_black
Could you go to prison for renting an AirBnB in NYC?

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toomuchtodo
No, but the fines can become punitive to a level it no longer behooves you to
continue.

First offense: $1000 | Second offense: $5000 | Third offense: $7500 and so on
(daily).

Disclaimer: Invested in a startup that does AirBnB surveillance/reporting for
jurisdictions.

~~~
ryanwaggoner
Ha! This is the perfect investment for you in particular. Maybe you can find
some kind of startup that annoys tech employees in growing cities until they
leave :)

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kdot
Detroit has different problems than other cities. Slumlords are renting
individual rooms in trashed homes not up to code.

This restriction stops short term rentals in neighborhoods, leaving areas
zoned as business (neighborhoods close to downtown and Woodward) free to host.

Airbnb for the rich only. Seems backwards.

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bsder
I suspect this is targeted at low-end prostitution. A lot of prostitution
enforcement targets the johns because they have more to lose. That vaporizes
if the john can set up an AirBnB and get met there.

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wpasc
Does Detroit need more regulation right now? For a city that's struggling to
attract people to visit/live there, is cutting off a source of income for
residents and an option for visitors in the city's best interests?

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matt4077
All governing is balancing of competing options, so any decision could be
attacked by pointing at the right lobby and saying "But Detroit needs the
income from Mercury Lollipop Manufacturers/Low-end tourism/The Church of the
Sacrifice of Fluffy Animals".

In this case, they've probably thought about and decided that almost all
potential visitors will still be able to afford one of Detroit's surprisingly
cheap hotels, and that the rest may not actually be the crowd you want to
attract, anyway.

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ChrisBland
I understand that they are doing this to help keep housing costs affordable,
but Detroit needs tourism income more than they need affordable housing at
this point. They have plenty of land and run down houses that can be fixed up
if AirBnb raises the cost of real estate in one area.

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yardie
> Detroit needs tourism income more than they need affordable housing at this
> point.

Part of the appeal of AirBnB was to live like a local. But if all the
neighbors are other tourists than what makes it any more unique than any other
resort full of tourists?

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sp332
Almost everyone who could afford to leave Detroit has left by this point.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Detroit...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Detroit#Table)

~~~
MSM
This is a little misleading. Was there a mass exodus? Absolutely, but it's
turned / turning around.

You would be hard pressed to find any decent apartment within a mile of
downtown for less than 1k/mo. Many nice apartments in downtown go for $2k -
$3k. I personally would love to live downtown and many of my peers share the
sentiment, there just needs to be a larger supply of apartments on the market.

Do I want to live four miles away from Detroit in a run down neighborhood? Not
particularly- if I'm already getting into my car to drive to work, why not go
a few more miles away into any one of the nice suburbs that surround Detroit?

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beal
I think AirBnB would be a force to help people keep their housing, driving
rents up but allowing people flexibility to generate more income if they are
falling back. I'm interested to see how the company responds.

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bobthepanda
Or it could fuel housing bubbles to new heights. The fact that there are now
housing lenders who use projected AirBNB revenues in determining
creditworthiness is worrying.

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dsacco
_> The fact that there are now housing lenders who use projected AirBNB
revenues in determining creditworthiness is worrying._

Do you have a source for this?

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bobthepanda
A startup doing this: [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/18/your-
money/mortgages/loft...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/18/your-
money/mortgages/loftium-airbnb-down-payment.html)

And now apparently Fannie Mae is moving into this space:
[https://www.wsj.com/articles/gig-economy-grows-up-as-
lenders...](https://www.wsj.com/articles/gig-economy-grows-up-as-lenders-
allow-airbnb-income-on-mortgage-applications-1518094800)

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txsh
Detroit is an interesting project in forest reclamation.

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vkou
Given that hosts are receiving C&D notices, it is yellow journalism to say
'without anyone knowing it.'

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x0x0
I think it's pretty clear that 'without anyone knowing about it' means
normally you would expect a debate and news coverage before something like
this. It's quite surprising that there appears to have been none.

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vkou
That sounds more like an indictment of journalists, then of the city. It's
their job to report on important changes.

Should the city have spent a few hundred thousand dollars on a PSA? People
love calling those a 'waste of money.'

