
$194 for hand sanitizer? You must be joking - hhs
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-cma/194-for-hand-sanitizer-you-must-be-joking-idUSKBN20S1TU
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eu
You can easily make it yourself: [https://www.wikihow.com/Make-Hand-
Sanitizer](https://www.wikihow.com/Make-Hand-Sanitizer)

~~~
JohnJamesRambo
Yep it is silly for people to be hoarding hand sanitizer. A simple 70% alcohol
solution would work just as well. That’s what we spray our gloves and
biosafety hood with in the lab.

~~~
ThrowawayR2
Yes, but what kind of alcohol? Grain alcohol is impractical because of the
expense, isopropyl alcohol is likely to sell out quickly as well.

The only other option available to the public that comes to mind is denatured
alcohol and it's unclear whether there any risks related to skin absorption of
the denaturing agents. Anybody know?

~~~
JohnJamesRambo
One common denaturant is methanol which is probably not best to absorb on your
skin.

It seems doubtful that all alcohol would become scarce and also all Everclear
from the liquor store, which isn’t really that expensive in bulk (1.75L of 95%
EtOH for ~$35). Certainly cheaper than $160 hand sanitizer.

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3fe9a03ccd14ca5
One thing I’d like to see architecturally change is the creation of hand
washing stations at the entrances to large buildings. I’d love to simply wash
my hands before and after entering Costco, but the bathrooms are out of the
way and you need to wade through reverse cart traffic to get there when
entering.

Places were groups of 100+ people are gathering should simply have a hand
washing station near the entrance, outside the building. And we should all use
them!

~~~
joquarky
I'm curious how much the habits created during this situation will have
lasting impacts that might be beneficial in the long run.

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wtfrmyinitials
During a shortage:

Commodity is available. Commodity is affordable.

Pick 1.

~~~
formercoder
3) government intervenes

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jolmg
And does what? make more supply appear from thin air?

~~~
formercoder
Resource allocation that favors public wellbeing over market efficiency.

~~~
jolmg
Market efficiency is precisely about public wellbeing. Concretely, what are
you suggesting? In face of limited supply, there's only 2 choices: keep the
prices low or raise the prices. The former accelerates supply depletion; the
latter helps maintain supply availability. You're asking for the government to
come in and pull a third choice out of their sleeve, but I don't see such a
choice. If you're the government, _concretely_ , what would you do?

EDIT: Now, if you suspect price gouging, that's different. wtfrmyinitials was
referring to a genuine shortage, though.

~~~
formercoder
That’s true if the proposed intervention is simply price caps, as opposed to
rationing.

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mothsonasloth
I've noticed a curve model happening on Amazon.

First it was basic medical masks that went out of stock. Then people realised
DIY/Building masks are the same if not better, they went out of stock. So the
next step was half face respirators for spray painting. They are now either
out of stock or overpriced.

Same thing with hand sanitizer. Wipes and small bottles. Then larger family
sized ones, then industrial acohol cleaner and aloe vera.

Its very fascinating, its almost like early adopters vs. mass consumers.

------
post_break
I bought some early last week. I got supplies two weeks ago when friends and
family were laughing at me saying I was being paranoid. Now they are asking me
where to get some hand sanitizer or bleach since it's sold out everywhere.

~~~
illumanaughty
Yup, gotta clean all those bacteria off your hands to avoid a virus, right?
Just use hand soap. It's more effective. (yes I know alcohol still kills the
virus, but buying hand sani isn't necessary when we already have a more
effective tool at pretty much every sink)

~~~
CommieBobDole
I have to ask, why do you assume that people are using hand sanitizer instead
of washing their hands? In the case of a pandemic, I would like to disinfect
my hands mostly in places where there is no access to running water. Like, in
my car after being in a public place, or at my desk.

This feels like the coronavirus-related version of that infamous Stack
Exchange response where you say "I must do (thing) because of these
requirements, what's the best way to do it" and people respond with "Don't do
(thing), do (other thing which is arguably better but does not satisfy the
requirements)"

~~~
illumanaughty
Sorry, just being an asshole. Using sanitizer in those situations makes
perfect sense.

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sam_lowry_
Poor Syrians, they can not even make their hand sanitizers nor buy off the
shelf: isopropyl is an essential ingredient in sarin production. People were
put in jail for shipping it overseas.
[https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2019/01/22/isopropyl-
alcohol...](https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2019/01/22/isopropyl-alcohol-and-
sarin-one-is-needed-for-the-other/)

~~~
bmn__
They can still make it with ethanol.
[https://www.who.int/gpsc/5may/Guide_to_Local_Production.pdf](https://www.who.int/gpsc/5may/Guide_to_Local_Production.pdf)

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omginternets
Protip: cheap vodka works well.

Protip #2: it comes in minibar-sized bottles.

Provided you don't live in a strangely puritan nation (I won't point fingers),
this basically has no downsides.

~~~
cycrutchfield
Vodka is 40% alcohol, which is not a high enough concentration to be
effective.

~~~
omginternets
Correction (you're right, of course, if you live in a country that thinks
vodka must always be 40%): Everclear is effective. It also comes in minibar
sized bottles.

95% isopropyl alcohol is even cheaper, and puritan-compatible. ;)

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zepearl
I don't get it - is normal soap ineffective?

~~~
stetrain
The benefit is you can place hand sanitizer in a lot more locations. Near
doors, desks, entrances/exits, conference rooms, etc.

A thorough wash with soap and water is better, but harder to distribute around
an office building, hotel, conference center, etc.

~~~
zepearl
Didn't think about this - thx

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kevin_thibedeau
So what happens to the cellulose after the alcohol evaporates?

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metalliqaz
you wipe it on your jeans

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crispinb
Given we're pretty much all going to catch it anyway, whats the point? I'd be
happy to get it over with soon.

~~~
crispinb
I'm sure no-one's reading this far back, but for the record I would edit or
delete the above if I still could. It was a pretty silly statement for a
number of reasons. I never had much cause in the past to read or think much
about epidemiology, and now I have .. well I'm thinking quite differently
about it all.

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simonblack
water + detergent is more effective than sanitizers.

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bluetidepro
Is anyone ACTUALLY surprised? Seems like an obvious supply/demand situation,
and of course (bad) people are going to take advantage of that.

> "We urge retailers to behave responsibly throughout the coronavirus outbreak
> and not to make misleading claims or charge vastly inflated prices,"

Urging retailers isn't going to stop the train of capitalism. I applaud their
optimism, though.

~~~
css
Ok, so you set a price cap and it all sells out in 10 minutes. What then?

~~~
jerf
What do you mean, what then? Then it's gone. That's all. There's no moral
component to this.

~~~
whatshisface
Maybe it would be better if the people who needed it more and were willing to
pay more got it, instead of one average guy who wants to panic buy the whole
shelf. In terms of giving the right stuff to the right people, the ranking is
probably "price cap and instant sell-out" < "price-based rationing" < "need-
based rationing."

~~~
2zcon
>the people who needed it more and were willing to pay more got it

And there the idealism breaks down. Willing to pay more - which you always are
if it becomes a life-or-death situation - does not mean able to pay more; able
to pay more does not mean deserves it more.

~~~
antisthenes
> able to pay more does not mean deserves it more.

Yes, but what's a good allocation metric for 'deserves' ? It's not an easily
quantifiable metric.

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mrguyorama
There is no law that prevents stores from having limits. Most places seem to
manage not running out of inventory with significant sales or coupons just
fine.

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jerf
"Most places manage not to run out of inventory when they give out their own
coupons or choose to run sales and have decades of experience in knowing what
to expect from them" does not translate to "will know how to avoid running out
during a black swan event like a pandemic".

Limits are legal, but sufficiently desperate people will do what it takes to
get around them. A major component of the problem here is that neither you nor
these stores can take their normal day-to-day experiences and apply them to
black swan events like this. Your System 1 (bleh, what a terrible name that
is....) heuristics are lying to you; you need to engage System 2 for this.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow)

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hastes
Go on Amazon, literally half of their listings for sanitizer are "currently
unavailable".

