
Waymo Applies to Put Autonomous Cars on CA Roads Without Safety Drivers - scottie_m
https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/13/waymo-reportedly-applies-to-put-autonomous-cars-on-california-roads-with-no-safety-drivers/
======
Animats
This is forward progress. Waymo has worked towards this point for years,
reporting every disconnect and minor fender-bender. Now they're going to test,
cautiously, in Mountain View.

As we've seen with Uber and Tesla, the "safety driver" doesn't add much
safety. The "safety driver" is mostly there to drive manually in situations
where the automation stops the vehicle and asks for help.

~~~
oculusthrift
Why do they not need the safety driver? i’m sure google can afford them. i
just don’t see the benefit of no safety driver. especially living in mountain
view and seeing the recent tesla crash.

~~~
londons_explore
Because it demonstrates to senior management and the public the progress the
team has made.

It also lowers barriers to an eventual widespread uber-like service. That
service wouldn't be financially viable with safety drivers in each car.

~~~
buvanshak
> Because it demonstrates to senior management and the public the progress the
> team has made.

Public is not asking them anything. Public does not sign up being part of a
beta/alpha or what ever test, for sake of "senior management"...

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KKKKkkkk1
The original article from the SF Chronicle has some more info. Specifically,
it contains the following very strange paragraph

 _Sources said that Waymo does not plan on operating its cars remotely — even
in difficult situations — but it will remotely monitor them during tests. If
one of the cars encounters something it doesn’t understand, such as
complicated road construction, the car will contact Waymo for help recognizing
the situation. After human testers give it feedback, the car will then decide
how to navigate the situation._

[https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Exclusive-
Waymo...](https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Exclusive-Waymo-
appplies-for-no-driver-testing-12832425.php)

~~~
userbinator
_If one of the cars encounters something it doesn’t understand, such as
complicated road construction, the car will contact Waymo for help recognizing
the situation_

Hopefully well in advance of actually hitting anything, but therein lies the
problem: what does it do if it's moving at speed and figures out that it
doesn't know what to do? If it continues moving, it might hit something, and
if it tries to stop suddenly, it might get hit and cause a multi-car chain
collision. Imagine you're following a car on a highway, in a situation where
no other cars are around, a situation in which a human driver would
practically never stop, and suddenly it brakes to a stop _very_ rapidly
because of some perturbation in the road that confuses it, but a human would
have no trouble with. Drivers are taught to look beyond the car in front and
try to anticipate what it might do; and something so contrary to expectations
is going to lead to problems.

~~~
toast0
What do you do if you're driving along and realize you don't know what to do?
Do you slam on the brakes for an emergency stop? Probably not. A safer choice
is to remove throttle input and consider gently applying the brakes while you
figure out what's going on, and check to see if there's enough space behind
you to brake harder or to pull off to the side of the road.

I would expect a fully autonomous vehicle to constantly be planning for
emergency and graceful stops, and to slow down if it doesn't have a confident
plan for both types of stopping and forward progress. It should also have
plans for when critical equipment fails, such as sensors or actuators as well
as normal car systems like brakes, tires, engine, steering.

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_Fricken
People will die if GM/Cruise takes the safety driver out of the car. Anyone
familiar with Cruise Automation's software will agree to this statement.
Hopefully Waymo has done a better job.

~~~
Eridrus
Interestingly not the first account I've seen on here bad mouthing Cruise:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=tmpnam1234567](https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=tmpnam1234567)

~~~
SingleShotDetec
And:

[https://www.theinformation.com/articles/inside-cruises-
bumpy...](https://www.theinformation.com/articles/inside-cruises-bumpy-ride-
the-limits-of-self-driving-cars)

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buvanshak
Why in the world! are people allowing this without making the cars pass any
sort of road worthiness test?

For example, make a robotic dummy walk in front of the car without notice.
Does the car break and avoid a collision?

Such basic things can be formulated into a test and have the cars pass them
before allowing them (even with a driver) on the roads..

It amazes me that people just stand by and allow these "tests" to happen
within an unsuspecting population...

~~~
imtringued
That's exactly what Waymo does...

>“We’ve staged people jumping out of canvas bags or porta-potties on the side
of the road, skateboarders lying on their boards, and thrown stacks of paper
in front of our sensors,” Waymo said in its report.

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/way...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/waymos-
ceo-on-fatal-autonomous-uber-crash-our-car-would-have-been-able-to-handle-
it/2018/03/25/4cc97550-3046-11e8-8abc-22a366b72f2d_story.html?utm_term=.42e52d4957bb)

>For media day, they put on three of them. In one, a Honda convertible
abruptly cut off one of the Pacificas just past an intersection, and the
Pacifica braked to avoid it. In another, a car obscured by two parked vehicles
suddenly backed out of a driveway. Again, the Pacifica came to a halt. The
third was a faux moving-day scene, with a couch in the street and boxes
tumbling into the lane, just as another car approached from the opposite
direction. The Pacifica knew better than to swerve into the car. It braked
until the coast was clear.

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/a-g...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/a-glimpse-
inside-the-secret-site-where-driverless-cars-
undergo-20000-tests/2017/11/04/874e083c-bf15-11e7-97d9-bdab5a0ab381_story.html?utm_term=.e3fbef88d5ee)

~~~
buvanshak
> That's exactly what Waymo does...

People should not care what Waymo does.

There should be an independent body to frame these tests (with enough random
stuff thrown in), and have the cars pass them.

It is quite meaning less to make the cars pass tests created by the company
itself.

And if you see the videos, none of the people were ever in real danger. Say,
where is the test when someone crosses when the car is going to 45mph? I am
not asking to put real people in real danger. But just make some robotic dummy
(even something on wheels will do), and make it cross without notice infront
of the car when it is doing 50+mph.

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jacksmith21006
Great to see. Lets get the revolution going.

