
New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law - walterbell
http://motherboard.vice.com/en_ca/read/new-trans-pacific-partnership-leak-means-significant-overhaul-for-canadian-law
======
joesmo
So they're criminalizing yet another everyday activity that hurts no one and
is already protected by civil law. It seems to me the US and its puppet
follower states just love the idea of criminalizing things that occur
naturally, hurt no one, and in their enforcement and chaos bring in billions
of dollars in profit off of ruining people's lives.

This has now been the norm for almost two decades and the movie / music
"industry" wonders why many people refuse to give them a penny? The damage has
already been done. At this point, _piracy is the only ethical solution_ to
obtaining such content, as giving these companies money is immoral and
supports people who threaten and ruin people's lives for profit.

~~~
rayiner
> At this point, piracy is the only ethical solution to obtaining such
> content, as giving these companies money is immoral and supports people who
> threaten and ruin people's lives for profit.

I don't understand this rationale at all. Surely the solution to an industry
whose business practices you don't like is to _stop using their products_.

Indeed, your rationale is one reason _why Hollywood has so much power._ Piracy
eviscerates the criticism against these legal measures by strengthening the
idea that people don't really care about freedom, they just want a popular
product for free. Every time you pirate a Hollywood movie instead of simply
forgoing watching it, you just validate the value and importance of the
products Hollywood produces. You just reinforce the idea that these products
are so important, it's worth undertaking these extreme measures to protect the
companies that produce them.

~~~
nitrogen
When effective cultural participation requires keeping up to date with at
least some of Hollywood's products, choosing not to view/listen is the same as
choosing to be just that much more socially disconnected. See Moxie
Marlinspike's presentation about this concept applied to technology:

[http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eG0KrT6pBPk](http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eG0KrT6pBPk)

When one oligopoly owns the vast majority of contemporary popular culture, we,
the populace, should be expecting a lot more in return.

~~~
tptacek
One of my very most successful friends, by far one of the most socially and
artistically connected people I know, didn't see Star Wars until his late 30s.
He seemed to have suffered for that: not at all.

Exactly, in as much detail as you can be patient enough to provide, how does
"effective cultural participation" require you to see shitty new-release
Hollywood movies?

Is Marco Arment culturally disconnected?

[http://www.marco.org/2015/04/11/popular-movies-i-havent-
seen](http://www.marco.org/2015/04/11/popular-movies-i-havent-seen)

~~~
AnimalMuppet
When I was growing up, we didn't have a television until partway through
junior high. (One of the best moves my parents made.) I kept hearing these
conversations in the hallway: "Did you see Starsky & Hutch last night?" (Yes,
I really am that old...) I felt a bit left out based on that.

But I felt left out because of a lot of things. I wasn't a member of the
dominant religion. I came into that school knowing nobody, because I didn't
attend one of the elementary schools that fed into it. I didn't live in the
neighborhood (my parents got me to go to that school rather than the one I was
geographically supposed to attend because it had fewer knife fights.) And, I
was a nerd.

So the actual amount I was "left out of things" because of not having a TV and
therefore being unable to effectively culturally participate was... pretty
small.

That was in junior high. Today, it's even less relevant to me. There's a
conversation about a movie I didn't see? "Nope, didn't see it." If they are
uncaring enough to keep having the conversation about that for the next 20
minutes, well, I'll just do something else. Or I'll listen, learn a bit about
a movie I didn't see, go to Wikipedia and read about the plot, and save about
two hours and $7.

~~~
tptacek
Thanks for this comment (which is something I can say because I agree with
you. :)

I feel like, if you don't know where your local MLB team is in the standings
today, you probably don't have a lot of standing to make arguments about US
cultural disconnection.

------
jpollock
Copyright section:

It seems to be giving everyone in the TPP area "Fair Use" rights. This is a
HUGE positive change to Canada, NZ and Australia which haven't had that
previously. [1]

However, the TPM section will make every single citizen in New Zealand a
criminal. You see, in NZ every DVD player is sold region-free. The salesperson
will say "would you like that region free"? Not being stupid, everyone says
"yes", and proceeds to buy DVDs/BluRays from Amazon.co.uk and Amazon.com. [2]
Although, it does have this caveat:

"[...]applied where any person is found to have engaged willfully and for the
purposes of commercial advantage or financial gain"

Which might give them a fig leaf to hide behind? Then there's this paragraph
which looks like a truck sized hole:

"Each Party may provide certain exceptions and limitations to the measures
implementing subparagraphs (a)(i) and (ii) in order to enable non­infringing
uses"

Oh, this is all around "Rights Management Information", basically, any piece
of information which says who the authors, performers, producers and owners
are. So, a bit of metadata attached to the mp3 is sufficient. Even a foreign
key is allowed. [3]

Personally, I want to see the agricultural section, and whether or not
parallel imports have been banned.

[1] [http://keionline.org/sites/default/files/Section-G-
Copyright...](http://keionline.org/sites/default/files/Section-G-Copyright-
Related-Rights-TPP-11May2015.pdf) Article.GG.Y

[2] [http://keionline.org/sites/default/files/Section-G-
Copyright...](http://keionline.org/sites/default/files/Section-G-Copyright-
Related-Rights-TPP-11May2015.pdf) Article QQ.G.10

[2] [http://keionline.org/sites/default/files/Section-G-
Copyright...](http://keionline.org/sites/default/files/Section-G-Copyright-
Related-Rights-TPP-11May2015.pdf) Article QQ.G.13 (c)

~~~
beloch
"This is a HUGE positive change to Canada, NZ and Australia which haven't had
that previously."

Canada has "fair dealing", which has largely the same effect as "fair use" in
the U.S..

------
walterbell
Are _ex-officio_ powers still included in TPP? This would allow computer
equipment to be searched/seized by customs officials and law enforcement,
without any complaint from rightsholders, e.g. even in the case of fanzines.

From an industry lobby letter,
[http://keionline.org/sites/default/files/Business%20Coalitio...](http://keionline.org/sites/default/files/Business%20Coalition%20Letter.doc)

 _" Ex-officio authority for law enforcement officials. The TPP should mandate
that law enforcement officials have the ability to seize infringing goods even
if not specifically named in a warrant and without complaint by a right
holder.

Border measures. It is critical that the TPP recognize the importance of
preventing counterfeit trademark or pirated copyright goods from entering the
channels of commerce, whether in the domestic market or intended foreign
markets. As such, the TPP should provide customs authorities the ability to
act ex-officio against imports, exports, goods in-transit, and goods in free
trade zones."_

From a 2013 analysis, [http://japanitlaw.blogspot.com/2013/01/tpps-effect-on-
fanzin...](http://japanitlaw.blogspot.com/2013/01/tpps-effect-on-fanzine-
environment.html)

 _"..in practice, it is rare for the police to commence an investigation
without a complaint by the rights holder. However, this situation may change.
The draft of the request of the US on Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) 15.5(g)
stipulates, "its authorities may initiate legal action ex officio with respect
to the offenses described in this Chapter, without the need for a formal
complaint by a private party or rights holder."_

------
PythonicAlpha
Those "partnership" treaties are ultimately used by big corporations and other
"big pockets" to annul democratic decisions and processes.

This is seen at the current TTIP negotiations and even more at the results
that already in-place treaties have. Look at Mexico and its treaty with the
US. The small farmers are the losers of this treaty and corporations are the
winners. And not only on the Mexican side are the losers -- also the workers
on the US side are losing because work gets cheaper and cheaper and even more
important, health and environment standards are undermined!

With all those treaties (which are currently planned or already signed) in-
place we have a capitalistic utopia with all the gains of society of decades
annulled. Back to the capitalism of robber barons and uncontrolled
exploitation (of humans and the nature).

------
golergka
> songs purchased through Apple’s iTunes music store—which restricts playback
> to a handful of computers

This is not true. If you download songs through Apple Music, then they are
protected m4p, but if you purchase music, the files are unprotected m4a and
play in other software like Traktor or in CDJ's without any problem.

~~~
wxs
Though if I'm not mistaken the unprotected m4a still contains a "digital
watermark" (i.e. metadata with your iTunes account info) which this article
claims would become illegal to remove.

~~~
golergka
It contains a tag, not a watermark.

------
flycaliguy
I'm excited to see the TPP potentially become an election issue in the
recently ignited campaign. Really hoping the NDP brings both this mess and
Bill C-51 up front so maybe we can squeeze some democracy into the process.

~~~
err4nt
From what I've seen, Tom Mulcair is the only Canadian politician that seems to
be in favour of the TPP. His criticism of Harper is that Harper is too weak to
see it all the way through to a deal (implying an NDP gov't _would_ ). Unless
he's changed position on that he's the one to avoid on these issues.

~~~
flycaliguy
Interesting. I know that the dairy farmer's are going to get a chance to flex
their influence over conservative rural seats if things don't fall in their
favour. Likewise manufacturing bases are going to be shook up. My take away is
not that Mulcair would see these decisions through. More so that he feels
Harper has softened Canadian influence so much over the past decade that we
don't have the negotiation power to stand up for Canadian interests. I think
he will present TPP as leadership test which Harper has failed.

~~~
err4nt
In my personal opinion Harper started off as a good leader because he did
exactly what he said he would do. Lately (past couple of years) I get the
feeling he has been a bit of a loose canon, and I feel like the government
that had been representing the public's desires fairly well became suddenly
divorced from what the people want now. We've seen law after law go through
that nobody was in favour of, so it's kind of feeling like having Jean
Chretien back with his autocratic 'dictatorship' leadership style.

Having said my opinion on Harper's leadership, I feel that Harper has acted
_well_ in this situation, not a failure at all. It's in our best interest to
not be in this deal, or if we must for us to negotiate the terms that give us
benefit and limit the sovereignty we have to forfeit. That seems to be the
position we are in now so I'd say he's done an okay job of putting us where we
need to be. Let's hope we get get the courage to ditch the TPP entirely!

------
a-priori
"Behind closed doors and in secret, Canada will have already agreed to make
these changes."

Well they can't have agreed to anything yet, seeing as Parliament is dissolved
for the October election. And it's currently a dead heat in the polls between
the top three parties (Conservatives, Liberals, New Democrats), so it's really
unclear who is going to form the government.

~~~
iclelland
Apparently they have that covered, too:
[http://motherboard.vice.com/en_ca/read/canada-changed-its-
el...](http://motherboard.vice.com/en_ca/read/canada-changed-its-election-
rules-so-it-could-negotiate-the-tpp)

It can't be officially signed until after the election, but they can still
negotiate. And all three parties, according to the article, are in support of
the agreement.

~~~
walterbell
From Michael Geist, the law professor quoted in that article,
[http://www.michaelgeist.ca/2015/08/canadian-government-
amend...](http://www.michaelgeist.ca/2015/08/canadian-government-amends-
caretaker-rules-to-give-itself-power-to-continue-negotiating-tpp/)

 _" Despite the government’s attempt to grant itself the power to continue to
negotiate the TPP during an election campaign, there are reasons to doubt that
it can effectively do so. First, while there would seemingly be no problem
with ensuring Canada remains at the negotiating table, committing to
significant policy changes would go well beyond the description of a caretaker
government that should be largely limited to “routine” activities.

.. Without a government mandate, Canadian negotiators simply can’t provide
other TPP countries assurances that concessions made today will last beyond
October 19th."_

------
ZenoArrow
When will these idiots learn that DRM doesn't work? How hard will it be for
pirates to remove these controls? Assuming a software hack is hard, the option
still exists for re-encoding the audio based on capturing the source data in
its audio form (whether analog line out or digital line out).

DRM encourages piracy. It means that the DRM-free pirated version has extra
value, and punishes those who do not want to break the law.

Hopefully the Canadian government can talk some sense into the other TPP
members.

~~~
kuschku
Have you read TPP?

The current leaks specify that selling, buying, owning, using, inventing,
planning, modifying, etc of devices, software, or methods that can be used or
could be helpful for removal or circumvention of DRM have to be treated as a a
crime.

~~~
norea-armozel
That's what I don't grasp about this situation. Why can't content industries
just accept that the gravy train of yesteryear is over? Just figure out a new
business model. They've had well over a decade and a half to throw enough
heads at the problem to figure out how to prevent further decline in their
revenues. But it just seems they're as stubborn (if not more so) as an ox when
it comes to accepting reality.

~~~
afarrell
To be fair, few software product companies have committed to do the equivalent
thing: releasing all of their code as open source with instructions that make
it possible for an average person to spin up an instance of the product with
the push of a button.

~~~
afarrell
If you are going to say that my comment adds nothing to the conversation, I
would appreciate it if you would make an argument for why we should allow
software engineers (and designers, DevOps, Admins, marketers, CEOs, etc...) to
make money off copyrighting their work and claiming things as intelectual
"property", but not allow musicians (and recording engineers, marketers,
distributors...) to do the same?

Why are software engineers able to make money without constantly flying from
conference to conference away from their families?

~~~
kuschku
You do realize that Copyright does not apply for business logic or algorithms,
so anyone can just copy those, too?

------
antihero
Why exactly are any governments agreeing to this shit?

~~~
err4nt
I feel like we are watching the sovereignty of nations fade, and watching the
baton pass to corporations. The US has invented this industry of Intellectual
Property deliberately as a way to extract money from people by limiting their
freedoms. As nations become less powerful and corporations become more
powerful, the political landscape is shifting. I believe the US is creating
the TPP to try to give as much of an advantage to US corporations in that
future landscape where corporations are sovereign over nations. The US is
trying to intimidate other countries to join on the threat of being cut out of
this new exclusive elite they are trying to create if they don't.

I think people are reluctantly agreeing to it because they are afraid of being
outcast from future political influence if this TPP deal does go through
without them, and nations become less powerful.

~~~
1971genocide
There is no difference between the US govt and its multinationals.

Why the TPP is being moved so quickly is because of the rise of a competing
set of multinationals in china.

I do not think the idea of a nation state is going to go away anytime soon -
espeically when you have robust democracy like in germany,india and europe.
Multinationals do not invest in education, infrastructure, low cost housing,
etc.

The US became an exceptional nation mainly because of its actions in the past
when they actually invested in their people that resulted in companies like
GM,GE to come into existence in the first place. Now they are just trying to
preserve their global hegemony without paying for it.

------
acd
I'm old enough to remember the VCR then you were allow to make personal
copies. In my country it is still legal todo so for personal use but DRM
prohibits one from excercising this legal right.

HDMI HDCP

All easily mitigated with some Chinese hardware that for an hacker is easy to
come by but a little harder for the average consumer.

I guess rights holders fear that there will TV 2.0 on the darknet, given how
much bandwidth people will have cheaply in the future its quite likely that
such a system will emerge.

I guess they fear the Popcorntime of TV which may be vastly to the commercial
offers. Pirates does not need to negotiate content agreements just make good
software.

I'd like to pay for my TV service but it should be good an innovative.

~~~
smeyer
>I'm old enough to remember the VCR then you were allow to make personal
copies.

There was analog copy protection on VHS as well.

~~~
kaybe
In Germany you actually pay a tax for empty data storage and the writing
machine (as described here [1], and here [2] (with prices in German)).

For example, an external harddrive ≥ 1 TB will cost you 9.00 € in tax. This is
supposed to cover personal copies (but does not give you the right to
circumvent copy protection).

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy)
[2]
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauschalabgabe](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauschalabgabe)

edit: Just saw the prices for mobile phones with touchscreen and over 8 GB
storage: 36,00 €! Wow.

------
cryoshon
Yeah, it's not great. Drug prices are going to skyrocket to US levels for a
lot of people currently enjoying correctly priced (cheap) drugs outside of the
US.

The lobbyists are on board with this one.

