
A new way to control experimentation with dreams - apsec112
http://news.mit.edu/2020/targeted-dream-incubation-dormio-mit-media-lab-0721
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throwaway189262
I used to lucid dream a lot. Probably the most wonderful experiences of my
life. I did everything you could think of. Flying, visit impossible places,
superhero, wreck stuff, bang movie stars, deepest oceans, space. Sometimes you
get into a wierd head space where everything is hyper real. Impossible colors,
undescribable textures. I got good at keeping myself from waking up, and had
lucid dreams that lasted seemingly hours.

It seems I've lost the ability with age :( . They became less common in middle
age and I haven't had one in years now. How I wish I could have that skill
back

~~~
justaguyhere
Did you consciously develop lucid dreaming skill? Or was it natural? Any
good/bad side effects?

Also, why do you think you lost it with age? Is this like physical abilities
that degrade with age?

~~~
kamaal
You can develop lucid dreaming abilities.

I don't think it goes with age.

Basically the problem is with dream recall after you wake up. And establishing
a routine so frequent you could witness that routine even in dream, so that
you can spot anomaly in the routine in the dream.

Basically there are certain things you can't do properly in a dream. Things
like adding numbers, counting, reading a watch correctly twice in a row etc.
For some reasons our brains seem to have a hard time maintaining state in
dreams. So you establish a stateful routine in wakefulness which would not be
possible in dream, making you realize you are now in a dream.

As you can see there are a range of things that need to happen. Routines in
wakefullness(like counting, repeating clock check), well rested body, low
stress, ability to remember a dream etc.

I think with age a lot of parameters are hard to keep up with.

~~~
srean
I have had it very rarely but it is quite amazing how much control one has
over how the dream pays out, what you want to see etc. I could literally do a
walkthrough in a house, checking out rooms one by one, houses I was familiar
with.

I have heard that you cannot see your face reflected in a mirror in a dream.
So sure enough when I got my next one I had to try it. I did not see my face,
but not sure how much of that was affected by my expectation.

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duopixel
Here is the PDF of the thesis dissertation for the project:

[https://dam-prod.media.mit.edu/x/2020/06/09/Incubating+Dream...](https://dam-
prod.media.mit.edu/x/2020/06/09/Incubating+Dreams+Awakening+Creativity+Adam+Haar+Thesis+8.5.19-compressed.pdf)

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e1ghtSpace
Last night I had a dream that I woke up from and went to my computer to find a
video file of that dream. I went to watch it but then I woke up for real.
Kinda funny.

~~~
scanny
Had something similar where I had a terrible nightmare about some humanoid
thing and woke up as it grabbed me.

I remember feeling a huge relief as I opened my eyes to see my bedroom and be
in bed, only to tilt my chin and see the thing sitting on my chest, which then
lept at my face.

I woke up for real, almost falling out of bed shouting expletives.

That's the only time I have had a dream (or sub-dream?) so lucid it felt no
different to real life ( for that brief moment).

~~~
ajuc
I've had very similar experience - a dream that turned into horror (I was
visiting family when I remembered my grandpa is dead and they all turned into
zombies and started pursuing me) - then I "woke up", sit up in my bed (and my
room mate seen me sit up with open eyes), I looked at him, and he turned into
a zombie and attacked me, then I woke up for real, already siting.

It was very scary. It might have something to do with the fact that we were
studying before an exam late into night and I drank about 2 liters of pretty
strong tea to keep studying (and fell asleep anyway eventually).

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galaxyLogic
No doubt this can help do some "creative work" while sleeping, but does it
also mean that you wake up tired?

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DoingIsLearning
> sleep-tracking device that can alter dreams by tracking hypnagogia and then
> delivering audio cues based on incoming physiological data

Neither the press release article nor the actual paper abstract seem to
mention how is a hypnagogia phase detected? Anyone with access to the full
paper can expand on this?

For what is effectively the most important/novel part of this device it seems
fairly handwavy on details.

~~~
0xdeadb00f
In the early 2010s I remember reading about a eye mask that detected when you
were in REM sleep by the literal rapid movements of your eyeballs while you
slept. When REM was sufficiently detected it would flash three red LEDs over
your eyes. The idea being that in your dream you would see the three red LEDs
faintly, and realise that you were in a dream.

I'm not sure if this actually works or how accurate it was however.

~~~
DoingIsLearning
But Rapid-Eye-Movement cycles happens at some point in between deeper sleep
cycles.

In this case they claim to detect hypnagogia which from the article is the
early transition from wakefulness to sleep.

In this stage you might have muscle relaxation or breathing pattern changes
but probably not rapid eye movement.

~~~
0xdeadb00f
I see

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duopixel
Aside, but I find it fascinating that the inventor of Modafinil, Michel
Jouvet[1], was also a dream researcher and even wrote a novel on dreams.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Jouvet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Jouvet)

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gverrilla
in ancient times, dreaming was rare, says the legend. when a king had a dream,
it was seen as a great sign

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HamSession
I've talked to some neuroscience friends and was interested to learn that
lucid dreaming hasn't been studied much if at all in lab conditions. I welcome
such research and hope more people get inspired to study deeper.

~~~
zeleza
Not at all true, there's been a ton of study on lucid dreams. Check out a
summary of the research by Jennifer Windt:
[https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/dreaming](https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/dreaming)

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Ancient
Basically "Inception" alpha version.

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totetsu
> a sleep-tracking device that can alter dreams by tracking hypnagogia and
> then delivering audio cues based on incoming physiological data, at precise
> times in the sleep cycle, to make dream direction possible.

Inception via smart speaker.

~~~
trhway
>Inception via smart speaker.

add small electrical impulses upon the muscles (electronic massager style) and
you will feel running. Add temperature changing clothes/blankets - and you're
running away from a polar bear... Especially if to add a smell of the bear.

