
Promised Land: Religious ideology and solarpunk science fiction - apsec112
http://thenewmodality.com/promised-land-religious-ideology-and-solarpunk-science-fiction/
======
bencollier49
There's an argument which says that Science Fiction (proper Science Fiction,
not Star Wars books) is less popular because whereas in the 1950 technology
was a wonder, now it's a horror, its early promise unfulfilled. SF books have
gone dark and frequently feature dystopias.

Despite the linked essay being a bit overblown, the author might be on to
something. They're describing an optimistic, inspiring Science Fiction which
posits a way out of our current doldrums using real technology, inspiring
people to make real change. I can get onboard with that.

~~~
C1sc0cat
A lot of key SF books in the cannon are dystopias 1984, We , Brave New World,
Gulliver's travels could possibly be considered SF as well.

~~~
082349872349872
I'm not sure that _1984_ isn't just _The Republic_ (an ancient greek's utopia)
with minor differences.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24069572](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24069572)

(Properly speaking, it's only truly dystopic for 13% of the population who are
self-censoring Outer Party members
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23975900](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23975900)
. Proles are free. The Inner Party is meritocratic. Presumably the Outer Party
members are those who are both too snobbish to be proles yet insufficiently
apt to join the Inner Party, so it is no wonder they —as some do in our
present— make up for lack of ability via surplus of ideology. Someday I should
try to write a short story in which the recently-promoted Syme is telling his
new colleagues amusing anecdotes about this fellow Smith he used to work with:
not a bad chap at heart, but frightfully prone to paranoid[1] conspiracy
theories.)

As for _Brave New World_ , it's a (utilitarian) utopia, just one that doesn't
have any room for English Literature teachers, so of course they'd be against
it, wouldn't they?

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24098309](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24098309)

 _We_ does seem truly dystopic, a precursor of the _Paranoia_ RPG. Compare
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolis_(1927_film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolis_\(1927_film\))
. I don't think it directly influenced _Brave New World_ , however, because
_BNW_ can be constructed simply by taking the pillars of the pre-WWI world
(church, family, wealth, etc.) and imagining a world where either things are
reversed (e.g. doing one's duty doesn't mean putting off the pleasant to do
the unpleasant. Doing one's duty is consuming pleasantries.) or, even more
heretically, completely irrelevant (families, nuclear or otherwise. No need to
straighten out who inherits what when money doesn't seem to be an issue.).

Where _BNW_ does agree with pre-WWI mores is in its class system, which is
just handled more efficiently, if no less obviously, in the After-Ford future
because people colour- rather than costume-code themselves.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24222905](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24222905)
(or, if costume doesn't suffice, refer to postal code.)

For clear evidence of technical progress between the eighteenth and twenty-
first centuries, we can compare
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Engine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Engine)
with GPT-3.

[1] Blair/Orwell > "I have said that at St Cyprian's we were not allowed to
keep our own money. However, it was possible to hold back a shilling or two,
and sometimes I used furtively to buy sweets which I kept hidden in the loose
ivy on the playing-field wall. One day when I had been sent on an errand I
went into a sweet-shop a mile or more from the school and bought some
chocolates. As I came out of the shop I saw on the opposite pavement a small
sharp-faced man who seemed to be staring very hard at my school cap. Instantly
a horrible fear went through me. There could be no doubt as to who the man
was. He was a spy placed there by Sambo! I turned away unconcernedly, and
then, as though my legs were doing it of their own accord, broke into a clumsy
run. But when I got round the next corner I forced myself to walk again, for
to run was a sign of guilt, and obviously there would be other spies posted
here and there about the town. All that day and the next I waited for the
summons to the study, and was surprised when it did not come. It did not seem
to me strange that the headmaster of a private school should dispose of an
army of informers, and I did not even imagine that would have to pay them. I
assumed that any adult, inside the school or outside, would collaborate
voluntarily in preventing us from breaking the rules. Sambo was all-powerful;
it was natural that his agent should be everywhere. When this episode happened
I do not think I can have been less than twelve years old."

~~~
ceilingcorner
Plato’s Republic is nothing like 1984 and to suggest so shows a deep,
fundamental lack of knowledge on Plato’s conceptions of the soul, truth,
beauty, and innumerable other things generally considered ‘positive.’

~~~
082349872349872
\- soul: do you have a cite? I believe Plato is fairly orthodox in ascribing
souls to people, not to the state.

\- truth: is what the rulers make of it

[http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%...](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0168%3Abook%3D3%3Asection%3D389b)
et seq

and certainly would be undermined by the arts, necessitating heavy censorship

[http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%...](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0168%3Abook%3D10%3Asection%3D607a)

\- beauty: does this occur in 1984? It's not in Goldstein at all, so I have
nothing to parallel. In the meantime, Jowett's translation of Book V:

> "Yes, and the most ridiculous thing of all will be the sight of women naked
> in the palaestra, exercising with the men, especially when they are no
> longer young; they certainly will not be a vision of beauty, any more than
> the enthusiastic old men who in spite of wrinkles and ugliness continue to
> frequent the gymnasia. Yes, indeed, he said: according to present notions
> the proposal would be thought ridiculous. But then, I said, as we have
> determined to speak our minds, we must not fear the jests of the wits which
> will be directed against this sort of innovation; how they will talk of
> women's attainments both in music and gymnastic, and above all about their
> wearing armour and riding upon horseback!"

makes me wonder if he'd had any exposure to Scyths, etc.?

e.g.
[https://d30womf5coomej.cloudfront.net/c/d4/0cb93d1b-dc27-43d...](https://d30womf5coomej.cloudfront.net/c/d4/0cb93d1b-dc27-43dc-
bc46-ed549fd6fa76.jpg) (from
[https://tapas.io/episode/1577942](https://tapas.io/episode/1577942) )

and compare
[http://www.math.uchicago.edu/~wald/lit/heroine_barbarian.htm...](http://www.math.uchicago.edu/~wald/lit/heroine_barbarian.html)

(incidentally, "Who needs to wait for daylight? I just work by _sensus
tactilis_." is a classical reference, but I recall neither poem nor author at
the moment.)

~~~
ceilingcorner
Plato’s societal structure is designed to achieve his highest aims for the
individual and the state.

1984 is a dystopian novel which, if anything, is a dumbed down version of a
Kafka novel. It has nothing to do with Plato’s philosophy.

They have about as much in common with each other as an orange does with
Jupiter: both are round. This is basic common sense to anyone with knowledge
of either.

~~~
082349872349872
Can you point to any of the 6 given (perseus) textual links and explain why
they are not parallel? That would be useful for me to understand why you
disagree, as we both agree we value "truth."

Otherwise, asserting "common sense" without specific evidence is neither
instructive nor amusing (other than being reminiscent of Plato's neologism,
the doxophile):

[http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%...](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0168%3Abook%3D5%3Asection%3D480a)

(the english has been inverted from the greek, φιλόδοξος. Compare french
_philodoxe_.)

------
motohagiography
I think there's some merit in looking at what the effect of "x-punk,"
movements have on culture. The idea of punk itself was the DIY music aspect
that moved into clothing and zines, and built an aesthetic that spawned a
network of cafes and bars and really is a subculture. The idea of an anti-
establishment movement is one that is really just vying for establishment
influence by defecting from it instead of negotiating within it, but it's
still very much a part of it.

What I call "punk privilege," is that almost no punks were ever really poor,
and it was a way for the poor to elevate themselves into an anti-middle class
that was appendent to the middle class. In the 80's and 90's, punk and other
subcultures were actually a path out of the underclass and into (the almost
exclusively white) bohemian culture, and a way for technocratic up and comers
to signify their skills. (e.g. "I'm so good the establishment tolerates my
green hair") It's been through generations of co-opting, where now old punk
aesthetics are a signal of membership in the new establishment, with pink and
green haired people operating the administrative layers of academia and
government, and the "real punk," that is, the independent creative networks
that diverge from this new establishemnt are attracting outsiders and creating
a primordial soup for the next wave of culture and innovation. What is surely
true is that it will be a divergent reaction to the current establishment. I
don't think this particular Solar punk aesthetic has enough grit to survive,
but not being a part of it, it's not for me, it's for the people who do it and
participate, which is ultimately what makes it punk.

~~~
082349872349872
Punk isn't dead, it just inquires if it may play through...

[https://michaelazerrad.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8347993c469e20154...](https://michaelazerrad.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8347993c469e2015435dd41aa970c-pi)

On the subject of white suburban punks, here's an open question:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23361351](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23361351)
(I've tried writing Alex Cox. No joy.)

------
nkrisc
Unrelated to the actual substance of the writing, I was completely mystified
by this passage:

> In truth, solarpunk is functional AF. The primary colors of its aura are
> red, orange, and yellow: Courageously compassionate, creatively scientific,
> and awakened interdependence. In many ways, it can be more rigorous than so-
> called “hard science fiction.” Don’t @ the messenger;

I know science fiction is often shortened to SF but I don't know what AF is.
The aura bit is completely baffling to me and seems like a non-sequitur, and
the last sentence has a @ that I thought was a typo but I'm guessing maybe it
wasn't.

I feel like I'm not the intended audience here, despite enjoying science
fiction.

~~~
eckza
It's newspeak.

~~~
Alekhine
Deviating from Standard English is not Newspeak.

------
hosh
Oh so _that_ is what solarpunk is.

I have been looking for fiction that can express the ideas and values for
permaculture design. Been looking in the wrong places. Though I bet the
solarpunk view is still a different than what I had in mind.

------
Causality1
_Solar energy cities under the sea_

I'm beginning to pick up why this is an arts movement instead of a scientific
movement.

~~~
mkoubaa
It's called an example. How much of the other sub genres of science fiction
had a story here or there that were completely off technically. try not to
write off the whole group based on one example, please.

~~~
Causality1
When you say that your genre is "harder than hard science fiction" and
"functional AF" you destroy your own case by saying it has "primary aura
colors of red, orange, and yellow."

------
mkoubaa
There's a cool solarpunk video game and manga coming out called protodroid
delta, inspired by MegaMan.

------
mensetmanusman
Is culture software, or is culture the operating system?

------
javert
Yuck. I don't know how to categorize this kind of writing, exactly, but I
recognize it when I see it.

It's "intersectionalist," fixated on race, anti-capitalist, and written in a
way that is very hard to understand. I'm not sure if that's done
intentionally, or if it's actually easy to read for those with the proper
training in modern-academic quasi-Marxist thought.

It takes pride in being a little bit sloppy and not following the rules of
grammar and writing.

Maybe the right thing to call it is "critical theory?" Genuinely not sure, but
that's probably about right.

~~~
mkoubaa
The rules of grammar aren't gospel. Writing was meant to approximate spoken
language and when spoken language changes you would expect written language to
change too. Grammar rules are a lagging indicator of accepted speech.

I enjoyed the article and didn't think it fixated on anything, really. It
described an artistic style that is based on the cultural experience of a
particular group and has values consistent with that group. By your reading we
should criticise Dante's inferno for being fixated on guilt, anti-science and
hard to understand, rather than appreciating it for what it is

~~~
javert
I definitely think there is a correct way to write and speak. (I don't always
succeed, but I try.)

I think we _should_ criticize Dante's Inferno for being fixated on guilt and
being anti-science. If it is hard to understand (I don't remember)--in the
sense of intentionally being obscure just to be obscure--we should also
criticize in that grounds.

By the way, there's nothing wrong with fixation as such. At least, I didn't
intend to use the word in such a way. It's just that I'm tired of the fixation
_on race_ in our society. It's fine if people have something new and helpful
to say, but most people don't.

P.S. Upvoting you b/c your comment is gray and I think it's a reasonable and
helpful comment and doesn't deserve that.

~~~
mkoubaa
There is no morally correct way to write and speak, but there _are_ ways to
write and speak that are effective for a given audience. For instance an
effective explanation to a five year old is much different than an effective
op-ed.

The writing and grammar rules which we are taught at a young age are effective
for getting good marks on school essays. It is becoming apparent that they are
not necessary or effective for writing a national bestseller.

I haven't even talked about regional or national dialects. If you think there
is such thing as a correct way to write, who governs that? What right do they
have to impose it on people who speak a different dialect?

I think the real problem in this case is that the reader of this article has a
different expectation of the standard of writing than the writer did. Is the
customer always right? How can a writer ever please all readers? Should they
even try to?

