

AMA: My job was to game Digg using infographics - thibaut_barrere
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/d7e24/my_job_was_to_game_digg_using_infographics_voting/

======
marknutter
This isn't surprising at all. In fact, I met and worked with someone on an
unrelated contract who ran a small shop that did just this. It made me happy I
stopped using digg years ago.

Digg could have solved a lot of these problems early on by introducing a
couple very simple features: first, allow users to block domains, and second,
allow users to block users. I can't remember how many times cracked.com or
holytaco.com would show up on the frontpage and make me cringe. Reddit is
starting to suffer from the same thing.

The fundamental problem with Digg and also with Reddit somewhat is that nobody
wants to sit and curate the upcoming stories, and upcoming stories require far
too many votes to catch steam and have a chance at hitting the front page. So
it falls to a small handful of power users who have a network of friends built
up who are willing to vote on their stories.

Digg essentially became an aggregator of cheap, popcorn content; the kind of
stuff non-tech savvy people forward around on email.

Hacker News is still good because it's a small niche of highly tech-savvy
people, but if it gets to popular it will run into the exact same issues.

I think the new Digg is actually a good step in the right direction. The truly
best way to get good content is to decide yourself where it comes from. I get
my best links from Twitter because I follow people who are interested in the
same stuff I am. If I could define my network, the content would remain
relavent. I think it would take around 500-5000 people to really generate
great content, provided those people are all people you align with well.

~~~
MC27
Digg's main problem is it left the technology niche and became mainstream. The
same thing has happened with lots of forums I used to frequent - for example,
one broadened their focus from a highly technical media broadcasting
community, to a TV entertainment and gossip portal. The traffic increased
dramatically, yet the quality of the posts dropped.

Hacker News will be fine so long as they keep things controlled and avoid the
pull of the mainstream.

------
tptacek
If this is true (and it rings truthy to me), then (a) this AMA is a service to
humanity, and (b) we should start aggressively flagging these things off the
site.

I say this mostly because I hate those stupid infographics; chartjunk!

~~~
_delirium
I like an observation I ran across
(<http://www.bogost.com/blog/information_is_beautiful.shtml>):

    
    
      The problem is this: infographics like this may be beautiful, but they are not
      necessarily informative. Specifically, pretty charts often fail to synthesize the 
      meaning, relevance, and impact of information as it pertains to decision making.
    

I think they're fine in the same way that comics can be fine: Dilbert is funny
because you recognize things in it, not because it's giving you important new
information about business. It can be nice to see something you're already
familiar with presented in an eye-catching, aesthetically pleasing way, and it
might even make a nice poster for the office or something. But as ways of
conveying information, the vast majority I run across aren't that good. Often
a boring old two-axis scatterplot would be more informative than the flashy
infographics (especially if it had usefully labeled axes and quoted its data
source).

~~~
tptacek
If you haven't read VDQI:

<http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/books_vdqi>

I highly recommend it. It was written decades ago and presages all of this; it
tears into this USA Today chartjunky design style with a satisfying fervor.

In this case, while the crappiness of the design may be what sets me off, the
license to complain about it comes from the fact that it's apparently _all
part of a huge SEO scam._

------
infographics
This is an anonymous account for obvious reasons. I also did the same job as
the AMA OP, used this linkbaiting technique for over a year.

Posting as I think HN would be interested in the results.

Tens of thousands of optimised backlinks, Quality trusted links from major
news publishers (almost all of them), Search traffic up from 30k a month to
200k, 800k to 1mill visitors a month.

The infographics game is almost up for linkbaiting. Most of the people using
this technique are now moving on, including myself.

Expect some interesting innovations in this space.

~~~
lliiffee
I couldn't quite understand how it works. Was the idea as simple as just
creating the infographic, then putting it somewhere on the site you want to
juice up? (There were details about links I couldn't really follow on
Reddit...)

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ilovecomputers
The Oatmeal responds:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/d7e24/my_job_was_to_ga...](http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/d7e24/my_job_was_to_game_digg_using_infographics_voting/c0y4tip)

~~~
tptacek
And his response is (aggressively paraphrased): "it's probably spammy, but so
what? they're my friends, they're a small shop, and the guy pointing it out is
probably a competitor."

Not very compelling.

~~~
ergo98
His response is horrendous. I've enjoyed a couple of his entries (although
they get a little formulaic), but that response had him dropping several
notches.

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mattmiller
I don't see how this is spam, and I am surprised that people are offended that
the authors of these info graphics are trying to make money.

They drew up an info graphic that you thought was entertaining. In exchange
you show your friends by linking that site. This is no different than any
other type of link bait, be it an inflammatory article or some sort of
interactive map you would see on the New Your Times website.

Spam is different. Spam is junk blog comments with a link to another website.
Those comments bring no value and diminish the value of the site. You would
never link to one of those comments to show your friends like you link to
these info graphics.

~~~
tptacek
Not complicated! They are asking you to repay the favor of creating the
infographic by _lying to Google_ and claiming that a site that paid _them_ is
the best resource on the internet for mesothelioma or college textbooks or
whatnot.

~~~
patio11
Is this distinguishable from a startup creating OSS, which will cause people
to "lie to Google" when citing the OSS, and if so how? (I happen to know two
reasons how: they're much, much cheaper to crank out at scale than OSS is, and
they're typically backed by an outsourced promotion team. These do not strike
me as having ethical significance.)

Are we maybe leading with our geek brains here? The geek brain that maybe
isn't quite 100% onboard with "it is ethical to attempt to market
$FILL_IN_BLANK , even in ways which are effective"?

Edited to add: I do not often ask myself, after typing in A HREF, "Am I being
true in my thoughts and deeds to my primary reason for all linking activity,
which is to preserve the sanctity of Google's link graph?" Should I? Really?

~~~
tptacek
Who creates OSS and uses it to market "scholarships" for online colleges by
scrambling Google's notion of what the best site for online colleges is?

SEO schemes that get people to cite your OSS to improve your OSS's position:
_just peachy._

SEO schemes that get people to cite your OSS to improve someone's IRS
settlement site: _not OK._

~~~
rmc
I believe patio11 did something similar. Made an A/B testing framework to sell
bingo cards. He advises doing this
<http://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/01/24/startup-seo/>

I think it's a brilliant idea and plan to copy it (y'know sometime...)

~~~
tptacek
Are you promoting IRS payment sites, structured settlements, mesothelioma
suits, online colleges or college loans? No? Then go with my blessing!

------
scrrr
People will always try to game the system. I think it's merely a matter of
elegance on how you do it. Your style will decide whether you will be called a
spammer.

For example dropbox.com became a huge success because Drew Houston started
serving Digg-"Easter Eggs" inside of dropbox to the Digg crowd that in turn
gladly upvoted him. I find his approach very smart (they came out of nowhere)
and I think dropbox would have not taken off without it.

It's always the same. When you think it's spam, it's spam. It is like in that
youtube video that was passed around some time ago: It's only sexual
harassment when you aren't attractive. Otherwise it's charming.

------
zhyder
This graphic, mentioned in the comments (but not created by the OP), is a
pretty good example:

<http://www.onlineeducation.net/bottled_water>

Note url and anchor text.

------
norki
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polsce> norek po 100-120 sztuk, [http://www.pzhipzf.pl/pl/dzikie-i-hodowlane-
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krajowych i na eksport. Obrót handlowy skupia się międzynarodowych targach,
tzw. aukcjach futrzarskich, organizowanych raz lub dwa razy do roku w Nowym
Jorku, Londynie, Helsinkach, Petersburgu, Lipsku, Sztokholmie, Oslo i w innych
miastach. Dystrybucja odbywa się wg ustalonego planu, na rzecz zakładów pracy
oraz instytucji handlowych. Zakupione partie skór przekazywane są do dalszej
obróbki, tzn. wyprawiania, barwienia oraz obróbki maszynowej (strzyżenie,
czesanie, epilowanie i inne).

------
bediger
Interesting and inflammatory, but I want to see some Wagg-Ed refugee admit
that they've had a special office full of people baiting slashdot, groklaw and
other sites.

