

Why StartUp Britain is nothing more than a government backed link farm - samengland
http://postdesk.com/debates/why-startup-britain-is-nothing-more-than-a-government-backed-link-farm/

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JacobAldridge
The fatal flaw of this project, methinks and is especially relevant here on
Startup (sorry, Hacker) News, is mixed interpretations about what a 'Startup'
is.

On HN and in the broader tech community, a Startup is almost exclusively a
tech-based, scalable, early stage business. It requires entrepreneurial
skills.

In the broader business community, a startup is just an early stage business.
That cafe around the corner from your server-filled garage? It's a startup.
The guy who washes Zuckerburg's porsche? Startup.

So we see a site like 'Startup Britain' and, combined with the whole Silicon
Roundabout push, think it's exclusively about our type of startup - tech
entrepreneurs, and no doubt the government here wants more tech startups. But
the government will gain maximum roi from this project by targeting the
broader definitions of startups - ie, all, early business.

By going after all early businesses, unemployment is reduced (at least by the
founders, and some of them will hire staff), tax bases will rise etc. I still
feel this project has been a waste of time and money so far BUT claiming that
'startups' don't need advice on logos and renting offices and buying MSFT
software until they've developed an MVP and a revenue stream misunderstands
the fact that a vast majority of startups are the local hairdresser, estate
agent, or handyman, not the next Google.

(See also the E-Myth for a basic explanation of how this confusion affects
businesses down the track.)

~~~
kaichanvong
Interesting... maybe we need to split off a site into more sections to first
determine audience segments and then attack each?

I've started my own response to StartUpBritain.org with startupbritain-done-
better.com

It's a project done last night after work :)

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bugsy
I have started a number of successful businesses. Startups do not need "help"
from the government. If you need "help" to start a software company that
requires almost no capital investment, you are probably very incompetent or
have chosen a very bad business plan.

Here is what startups need from government: nothing.

I don't mean no chance, I mean nothing as in the less the better.

Less paperwork, less harassment, less bureaucrats nosing around and screwing
up things and creating a HOSTILE environment to do business so that their
friends in the giant corporations don't have any pesky little upstarts
upsetting their apple carts.

That's what small business needs to succeed. Less of everything, and
preferably to be LEFT COMPLETELY ALONE.

Anytime the government is making pronouncements about helping small business
and entrepreneurs and spending money on publicity campaigns and billboards and
adverts and passing new laws with regulations to tell us how everything is
going to be done under the new system, you can be sure of one thing. The
intent is not to help small business at all. That claim is just a cover for
whatever the real agenda is. Usually it is to protect big business who is
entangled with various politicians.

~~~
dangravell
Completely agree. I saw this site and my first thought was "they don't get
it". I don't need help, I need them to get out of the damn way. I guess
Government is just accustomed to providing 'help' and generally interfering
when actually they can be more useful by withdrawing.

One thing I'd add is that Government could make it easier for people to live
on lower income. For instance, raising the nil band of income tax which they
seem to be working on but it feels like that's more Lib Dem pressure. The Cons
seem to just want to talk about the 50% tax rate, which means nothing to me.
This will become more important as interest rates rise and those with
mortgages are further squeezed.

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petercooper
StartUp Britain is a nice idea and anything that spreads the word about
entrepreneurship and the benefits it can provide isn't entirely bad.

However, advising people to check out patents, design logos, get stationery,
rent an office, and so forth _before actually proving the business model works
by selling something_ is crazy. It's just "busy work" that wannabe
entrepreneurs can do that costs they money and makes them feel like they're
making progress. They shouldn't be doing this stuff - they should be making
the first sale and figuring out how to repeat it if it happens.

Branson - one of the names on this project - never did any of this busy work.
His first business - a student magazine - started with him calling people from
a callbox selling advertising to a magazine that didn't even exist yet. His
airline began when he got stuck in the Caribbean, chartered a plane to get him
out of there, and he decided to sell tickets to the other stranded
holidaymakers to cover his costs. You're not seeing anything like that in this
campaign..

~~~
bugsy
Absolutely true and good advice. In particular renting an office is
spectacularly bad advice for someone who has no income coming in yet from
product and service sales.

~~~
arethuza
Reminds me of when I co-founded a University spin-out in the UK during 90s -
the only offer of help we got was an offer to lease us a building!

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CallMeV
I have a somewhat jaundiced view of anything to do with the Tories, and with
the current administration in particular. I get the overwhelming impression of
underwhelming talent, little attention to detail and no originality from
either the Conservative or Liberal Democrat camps of the coalition.

This scheme feels particularly slipshod in its execution. I'd welcome a £1500
bursary to start up a business - who wouldn't? - but looking at this, I
discovered that an entrepreneur looking to set up any business through this
site would, in fact, not actually get any sort of money to help them
whatsoever.

Here lies the _hamartia_ , the fatal flaw, of this site: it is not what it
seems. Your article just confirms all of my fears.

I'm sharing this with some people I know, who have an interest in the scheme.
This article will have a marked effect on their decisions. Thanks for bringing
it here.

~~~
mattmanser
There's no talent in the labour party either, it's as if we're going through a
derth of political talent.

Having had a dig through the site myself too I was very disappointed at the
total lack of meaningful support.

A bunch of recycled business link articles and useless vouchers worth nothing
like £1500, most of which could be acquired elsewhere (the google one is
especially crap compared to what you get elsewhere).

~~~
Quarrelsome
Considering how we treat our politicians in the UK is that any surprise?

Anyone with any talent or ability steers well clear of politics for good
reason. The reason being that (almost) irrespective of what you do you'll be
butchered by the press and the public.

If you have any substance then the likelihood you'll be voted in or accepted
by either party is close to zero. I hope the vote on the 5th of May for AV
helps address this a bit.

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bugsy
I was just thinking of a friend I have who has a very successful software
product he sells. He is Scottish. He went to the university, got a doctorate
in mathematics, found himself completely unemployable. Ended up living in a
subsidized flat and on the dole. Kept applying for jobs. Was overqualified for
menial labor and his math degree was generally useless for everything else
even though the guy is completely brilliant.

On the dole, he started to write software. Over the period of several years he
created a number of titles and started distributing them.

Finally his reputation was good enough and income coming in so he was able to
get off the dole, buy a house, rent a business location, and hire employees.

There were a few years there he was probably illegal since he was running a
business when he was supposed to be unemployed. But once the business paid
enough to live on he lived on it and went off the dole.

Based on this, I think that public welfare programs can work to assist
startups. The reason is the person is getting living expenses, which is all a
developer needs, and there are no requirements or equity lost or regulations
or other BS that takes away from focusing on developing a product and building
a customer base.

~~~
toadi
In Belgium we have an excellent welfare program. For many people it brings in
enough money so low wage jobs are not interesting enough. For 100 or 200 euro
more they are not going to work.

In some countries you see people starting very small businesses just to
survive. Buying and selling goods or delivering services such as gardening,
cleaning or maintenance.

Maybe they should give a bigger incentive so people can start these small
businesses instead of receiving welfare.

Off course I'm not speaking in IT startups in particular.

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bhickey
I'm an American expat living in London. If I were to start a business, the
first thing I would do is leave the UK. My perception is that access to the
London market simply isn't worth dealing with the business climate here.

Sure, National Insurance is a great bargain in comparison to Social Security,
but the tax rates are staggering. Even as a consumer, I find myself saving
rather than spending -- I'd rather accept a forex risk than eat VAT.

People and capital have legs.

~~~
ig1
Don't take most of the money out of your company as a salary, rather pay
yourself a minimum level wage and take the rest out as dividends, that way you
don't have to pay NI on it.

~~~
glenjamin
Except dividends are double taxed - first on company profit, and then again as
earnings.

~~~
ig1
Speak to your accountant, you can get a 10% personal tax credit on dividend
payments, so it's more efficient than taking the money out as salary.

------
ig1
The Microsoft involvement in this is bizarre, what Microsoft are offering
through the scheme is an order of magnitude worse than what Microsoft already
offer through their BizSpark scheme (which is worth taking up even if you're
not building on an MS stack)

~~~
joahua
BizSpark looks great! I'd only used DreamSpark (possibly the student
equivalent without the business support) in the past, which is quite MS
platform focused. Of course, you can still virtualize stuff using the keys,
etc., they provide through it.

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foobar2k
Give tax breaks and other incentive to entrepreneurs and investors, forget
this discount coupon crap.

~~~
arethuza
I'm in Scotland - I've always wondered about shutting down the monster that is
Scottish Enterprise and using the money saved to reduce the CGT rate for
startups.

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joahua
Pedantry: 99 Designs is an Australian business, not US based.
<http://sitepoint.com.au/about/our-businesses/99designs-com>

Devaluing the design industry is one thing, but for many startups design just
isn't core business and outsourcing (crowdsourcing, whatever) is a viable
tactic to reduce costs. Sure, it's not bolstering the UK economy and is
accordingly embarrassing to a government backed website, but the rest of the
article seems to be saying it's a useless site for startups.

I'd content that outsourcing in startups is absolutely appropriate, and by
extension offshoring is also okay. (Apologies to UK based design firms
producing excellent, cost-effective work)

~~~
o6uoq
I agree - in a day and age where financial stability is akin to walking a
tight rope, companies are not going to spend money unnecessarily - especially
in the early days.

Yes, this money sometimes goes off shore - but if you compare it to the
prices/quality that you may receive in cities such as London, sometimes the
price does not fit the convenience. With a little creativity and perseverance,
a startup can implement the building blocks
(design/deployment/admin/software/etc) of a company for next to nothing,
leaving them to focus on one thing - generating further business, which will
help their country of residence (even if some is out sourced).

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johnyqi
Classic governments stunt. I was so disappointed when I saw the website, just
bunch of links to other websites and useless gifts. Total fail

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calpaterson
Why this blog post reads like the NME:

Too many adjectives and insinuations, not enough material. When you want to
oppose something, the only thing you need to provide is a list of faults and
possibly some explanation of why the faults matter.

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mncolinlee
Someone should compare and contrast Startup Britain against Startup America. I
think you'll find that both the United States and individual states are taking
entrepreneurship much more seriously. That's especially true with the latest
immigration changes.

