
Is high IQ a curse? - amichail
Potential problems:<p>* unrealistic expectations of what you can accomplish<p>* difficulty in dealing with average people<p>* more likely to question things and annoy people in the process<p>* less likely to accept traditions<p>* less likely to enjoy the simple pleasures of life<p>* less likely to find a job as an employee rewarding<p>What are others?
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stonemetal
I pretty much disagree with everything you list. There are only unrealistic
expectations if you foster them by going around and spouting off about how
smart you are.

It is only difficult to deal with average people if you believe yourself to be
above them and look down on them.

You only annoy people by asking questions at inappropriate times, if you were
really that much smarter then you would know when to ask and when to shut it.

I don't know how you would measure the acceptance of traditions but off the
cuff Stanford, MIT and other places where high IQ people tend to congregate
seem to enjoy their traditions as much or more than more middling schools.

Sounds like a personal problem.

Nope regular joes find work boring too, just look at all the pulp fantasy
stuff made to distract the common man.

The main problem with a high IQ seems to be it is easier to fall in to a
narcissist trap of thinking you are somehow different from the common man just
because you can add a little faster.

~~~
azanar
_It is only difficult to deal with average people if you believe yourself to
be above them and look down on them._

Nonsense. Unless you are going to insist on two things: that everyone has the
same cognitive capacity, within some delta; assuming the first, that anyone in
a conversation who leaves anyone else behind in understanding is _at least_ a
narcissist, and possibly otherwise degenerate.

People don't get difficult just because you are intentionally condescending to
them. People learn at different rates, people reason at different rates, and
some people take the mere _acknowledgment_ of this fact as condescending and
narcissistic. They also take the fact that a conversation amongst friends went
down a particular thread faster than they could keep up as a sign they are
being patronized and degraded. Social etiquette would dictate that the
conversation always slow down to the point that everyone keeps up, but that
has its own drawbacks, not the least of which that it turns being able to
think and reason fast into a psychosis -- so this looking down upon can go
both ways, and usually does if even behind the veil of social propriety.
Neither party is guilt-free here.

 _You only annoy people by asking questions at inappropriate times, if you
were really that much smarter then you would know when to ask and when to shut
it._

As I pointed out in a different thread here, what happens in the case when the
inappropriate time is unreasonably restrictive -- for instance, there _is_ no
appropriate time. Are you really going to assert that a smart person show
unwavering obedience? Do you realize the consequences of such a philosophy?

I'm not defending the OP; I think his list of correlations is presumptuous.
However, the responses here (so far) are likewise very presumptuous about the
poster -- perhaps it is to dose the poster with his own medicine, but that it
is done under the auspices of discussion social skills is quite ironic. I
really wish this were not the standard knee-jerk reaction of the community to
these sorts of posts.

~~~
stonemetal
_People don't get difficult just because you are intentionally condescending
to them. People learn at different rates, people reason at different rates,
and some people take the mere acknowledgment of this fact as condescending and
narcissistic._ Not really, it is important to understand cognitive differences
between people and for both parties to make allowances. The smart should slow
down and the slow should bow out. As a non-offensive example my wife seems to
have a blind spot when it comes to navigation. She uses GPS if she is going
more than three blocks even if there are only a few turns involved. I still
include her anytime I talk about how to get somewhere, and she bows out of the
conversation when she gets to lost. Let's face it most social interactions
aren't discussing astrophysics and if they are most regular people are going
to get bored and leave, leaving the few who are able and willing to keep up.
When I was in college I hung out with a couple of classmates who were Mensa
members, and you know what, they liked beer, video games, and bowling as much
as the next guy. I also had classmates who were on the other end of the scale
who thought they were hot and exhibited everyone of the signs the OP brought
up. From where I am sitting it seems that being a prick is more a personality
trait than a side effect of being 'smarter than the average bear'.

 _Are you really going to assert that a smart person show unwavering
obedience?_

Who said anything about obedience? Not being an offensive jerk is something we
should all aspire to achieve(Not quite there yet but I try). If a question has
no appropriate time then I suggest that the question is more than likely naive
and with little more thought\research to couch it in more scientific terms
could be an acceptable question at some more private moment. Anyway asking
questions at inappropriate times is usually unlikely to get you an answer so
all the asking has done is make you look like a jerk and not satisfied your
curiosity in any way.

Blaming your high IQ for your lack of social graces A) Is an easy cop out, to
you know, actually developing them. B) Makes you look bad because the other
high IQ people have gotten over it and learned how to make friends with us
lowly common folk.

Sorry if it comes off as callow but I have dealt with more average people with
the I am so smart chip on their shoulder than actual smart people with it, so
much so that as soon as the I am so smart dance starts your IQ drops a few
points in my eyes.

~~~
dagw
Totally agreed. A high IQ (whether real or imagined) is never an excuse to not
develop any social grace. And all the problems originally listed are all about
lack of social skills and have nothing to do with being 'smart'.

------
jacquesm
I think you are mixing up a couple of things that have absolutely nothing to
do with IQ (or intelligence).

Unrealistic expectations of what you can accomplish points to a lack of self-
knowledge.

Difficulty in dealing with average people is a social skills issue, but
'average' and 'below average' people might have that same problem.

More likely to question things and annoy people in the process is again a
social skills issue, really clever people can work out lots of stuff without
having to ask for it, and when they do it's a matter of timing, tact and
packaging.

Less likely to accept traditions again has nothing to do with IQ, but if you
are smart you may be better able to argue for yourself why you do not wish to
follow traditions. To be in other peoples face for not accepting traditions
would be another social skills issue.

Less likely to enjoy the simple pleasures in life is not at all limited to
people with high IQ.

Less likely to find a job as an employee rewarding depends on what you define
as an employee. If you think a full professor at a university is an
'unrewarding' position because you are an employee then you probably have
other issues.

Seriously, I can't see _any_ of those problems related to having a high IQ per
se.

~~~
azanar
_More likely to question things and annoy people in the process is again a
social skills issue, really clever people can work out lots of stuff without
having to ask for it, and when they do it's a matter of timing, tact and
packaging._

The way the original posted phrased this, I don't believe he meant so much
asking questions to clarify something obscure, but more accurately to stress
something inconsistent or inaccurate. There are two aspects to this: noticing
the inconsistency, and then notifying others. As I understand it, pattern
recognition is something at least moderately related to intelligence.
Revealing that pattern to others, and choosing when and how, is much more a
matter of following social protocol, which may go even as far as to dictate
that such patterns never be revealed.

 _Difficulty in dealing with average people is a social skills issue, but
'average' and 'below average' people might have that same problem._

This leads to a what I think difficult question that in general seems to have
a suspiciously certain answer: when is it appropriate to disregard social
etiquette and protocol? The obvious answer is: never, because no good ever
comes from people being annoyed and offended.

This seems suspiciously clear-cut, and historically inaccurate. I can think of
a number of very detrimental philosophies that would still be adhered to today
if everyone's foremost goal was to never cause offense, far more detrimental
than the offense fighting against them may have been.

Provided that there is some correlation between intelligence and noticing
abnormalities in patterns, this point ties back to the first, in that the
person deemed difficult may just be seeing a pattern that few others are able
to see, and as a result of continually bringing up aspects of that pattern are
considered difficult and a lackluster teammate.

I don't think just saying "stop being such an anti-social dickhead" is an all-
inclusive solution. Further more, I don't think we _want_ it to be when
thinking about long-term concerns.

------
ionfish
As John Stuart Mill famously wrote, "it is better to be a human dissatisfied
than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool
satisfied".

<http://www.gutenberg.org/files/11224/11224-h/11224-h.htm>

~~~
teeja
searched google for: "it's better to be" + quotes

e.g.

Matt Damon: It's better to be a fake somebody than a real nobody.

Marilyn Monroe: 'It's better to be unhappy alone than unhappy with someone.'

Mae West: It's better to be looked over than overlooked.

Steve Jobs: It's better to be a pirate than to join the Navy.

------
kqr2
You should check out the following longitudinal studies:

* Terman's Gifted Kids: [http://www.amazon.com/Termans-Kids-Groundbreaking-Study-Gift...](http://www.amazon.com/Termans-Kids-Groundbreaking-Study-Gifted/dp/0316788902)

* Harvard : <http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200906/happiness>

------
carterschonwald
actually, I think one of the only real difficulties associated with high IQ is
that generally speaking, its fairly generally the case that people have
extreme difficulty easily communicating with people whose IQ differ from their
own by about 2+ standard deviations (1 sd is about 15 iq points).

For example, if your IQ is say 145, the way you communicate when talking will
in some sense be fundamentally different from someone whose IQ is less than
115 or greater than 175. This is not to say that its impossible, only that it
actually takes cognitive effort to translate what you're saying into a
suitable cognitive frame of reference for the other person's consumption. This
is similar to the difficulties in communicating with someone from a completely
different cultural background, albeit different details.

~~~
jacquesm
The big trick is then to bridge the gap.

I think that if you _really_ understand stuff you can explain it to just about
anybody, no matter how big the gap. This may take a lot of time and hard work
but both parties willing it should be possible.

~~~
osipov
Really understanding stuff is not enough: a higher IQ individual may be bored
by the explanation and misunderstand it due to lack of attention while a lower
IQ individual may have trouble understanding, require a shallower explanation
and more time.

~~~
jacquesm
That's true, you can't discount for that but true understanding is a
prerequisite.

Look at Dawkins, Feynman and other great teachers, they can take the most
complicated material and make it accessible to just about everybody (in the
case of Dawkins even really young children, have a look at the Christmas
lectures for and example of that).

------
notmyusualself
As with any privilege, with high IQ comes high responsibility. Leading a
purposeful life is quite a challenge for regular people with all the noise in
the world; even more so for a high IQ individual. I see many people running
away from this responsibility by taking less than what they are capable of.

To feel that you are improving, you must continuously challenge yourself and
decide to take the helm of your life. A high IQ gives you more opportunities,
and thus a bigger challenge of creating the feeling that you are succeeding.

* labeling your expectations "unrealistic" may be a sign of fear of failure. Stretch yourself ever further.

* it's difficult for average people to deal with intelligent people too. Put some effort into your side of the situation.

* there's more to everything than meets the eye or any logical analysis. If you think questioning something could annoy someone, analyze instead why is that so and formulate a different question.

* it's hard enough to communicate simple ideas clearly among a large group. Traditions are a simple and effective way of keeping social cohesiveness, and realize this is important. Realize too that most progress comes from single, highly motivated individuals and not from "traditional" people. Live your social life, and life your intellectual life; don't mix when inappropriate.

* enjoying the simple pleasures of life takes understanding the value in simple things. Higher IQ gives the capability of seeing this value in the most surprising ways. Again, a high IQ individual is not easily satisfied. Put some effort in seeking pleasurable, deep ideas.

* nobody finds a job as an employee rewarding.

------
lionhearted
I try to remember the quote, "...for there is nothing either good or bad, but
thinking makes it so" from Shakespeare's Hamlet.

I had a terrible sports injury, damage to the cartilage in my left knee a few
years back. Left me not able to do a great many things I used to, and I have
to be cautious on all the rest. I've got to stretch 10 minutes a day or my leg
starts hurting. For a while, I could barely walk - I was taking industrial-
strength doses of anti-inflammatories and doing physical therapy, icing my leg
nightly.

For a while, I called the few minutes I hurt my leg "the worst 10 minutes of
my life", because it seemed to be massively inconvenient and painful on a long
term basis, with absolutely no gain whatsoever.

And yet, somehow, I took a great many lessons from it with time. I do
everything slower and more deliberately now, I pay close attention to my
health, I floss, I take care of my back. A bit embarassing to say so, but it
severely limited what I could do in the bedroom - but the irony is, it made me
a better lover. I lost all variety, because any position that came from weight
on my knees I couldn't do for more than a minute of a time. All the strength
and power had to come from my arms, shoulders, and maybe a touch from my hips.
But losing all variety, and being limited to just a couple ways of making love
- it gave me an immense amount of practice and forced me to think really
critically. I'd say I'm probably a better lover now, injured, than I ever was
before fully healthy.

Ironic huh? IQ clearly has a lot of benefits, but sure, a lot of downsides
too. In the end, it's what you make of it and how you think of it. Here's the
scene from Hamlet:

[http://www.enotes.com/shakespeare-quotes/nothing-either-
good...](http://www.enotes.com/shakespeare-quotes/nothing-either-good-bad-but-
thinking-makes)

Hamlet: What have you, my good friends, deserv'd at the hands of Fortune, that
she sends you to prison hither?

Guildenstern: Prison, my lord?

Hamlet: Denmark's a prison.

Rosencrantz: Then is the world one.

Hamlet: A goodly one, in which there are many confines, wards, and dungeons,
Denmark being one o' th' worst.

Rosencrantz: We think not so, my lord.

Hamlet: Why then 'tis none to you; _for there is nothing either good or bad,
but thinking makes it so_. To me it is a prison.

------
socrates1011999
It's funny how angry average IQ people get when you talk about these issues.
If you don't have it then how could you possible know what it is like? Why are
you so offended. If we ran fast or slammed basket balls better then you
wouldn't mind me saying that. We don't walk around telling everyone that we
are smarter but it comes out. We have two choices talk down or talk normal
either way it will be seen as an insult. When we talk normal, we are not
trying to sound smart we are naturally. That's what it means to have a high
IQ. When we talk down people get offended. If you have an average IQ say 100
and everyone else had a 50 IQ (retarded) how happy do you think you would be
if they were offended by the way you talk or didn't understand you ideas or
were mad at you because you understood that you were not retarded. I'm not
saying that average is retarded or making fun it's just the way to explain. If
you don't have a high IQ how would you know...

------
CyberFonic
It's how you apply your high IQ that determines whether it's a curse or a
blessing. For me it has been a blessing.

I've always wanted to be an engineer, and that's the career I've chosen and am
still working in. Along the way, I learnt five foreign languages, studied
psychology, philosophy, sociology, political science. Acquired the equivalent
of an MBA with better than professional knowledge of accounting, marketing and
sales. Read about 30-40 books on history, architecture, geography, geology,
astronomy, etc per year.

AND ... from all of this I've learned to listen actively when in conversation
with others and ask leading, insightful questions based upon my broad
knowledge and listen more. I've learnt more from such conversations than from
all the courses and reading.

A high IQ is like a high performance computer, you can use it to play some
computer game or decode DNA, synthesise treatments for diseases, explore the
mysteries of quantum physics and lots more. You have been given the power, now
choose wisely...

------
billswift
If it is a curse to you, then you probably have other specific difficulties. I
am a high-functioning autistic with an IQ of 156; I have trouble with all but
the last 2. In fact, working as an employee helps offset my problems with
"unrealistic expectations" since my biggest problem with that is lack of
focus, and when employed my employer provides the focus. Unfortunately, since
my last good employer died in 2001, I have been bouncing around between low
level jobs ever since. I cannot work closely with others more than briefly, so
I either have to work alone, which is what I mostly did in the 1990s, or
switch jobs every few years, and with the economy and the torture looking for
work is for me, I have been mostly out of work since last October.

~~~
CyberFonic
Maybe you don't need a job, perhaps you need to work on your passion. Find
your passion and in so doing find someone else who shares the same passion. If
they are prepared to provide the structure that you require, then you could
accomplish great things. Good Luck.

~~~
billswift
That's my biggest problem, I don't have any particular passion. I NEED an
external source of focus; when I'm not working I read and study more or less
at random when something catches my attention. I have tried all sorts of
things to try to maintain a single focus, but so far nothing has worked at
all. And I need income even more, I'm already in debt, I just have to take
whatever I can get for work.

------
xkcd123
No. If you were smart, you'd figure out how to solve those problems.

------
Dilpil
Endless second guessing of social interactions.

