

The Kindle problem - yannis
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200909u/amazon-kindle

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ardit33
"For example, the Kindle lets readers down with respect to one subtle but
powerful element of the traditional book’s appeal: its role as an identity
marker. Pulling out a particular book on an airline flight or in a doctor’s
office can mean staking a claim to being a particular kind of person." \--
That is easily resovalbe. Having a second smaller outside screen (like flip
phones do), showing what you are reading :P

But honeslty, if you are judging a person by what they are reading, then you
are are bit superficial (you can have smart people, splurging on silly books
once and a while). I think having a kindle right now means a lot more: You
either:

1\. Are an avid book reader, so a Kindle is a huge convenience for you (worth
the price)

2\. Have good money, (or generous parents).

I think the Kindle is expensive, b/c the technology itself is expensive, and
it will get cheaper by time. Remember, the first hard drive based MP3 players
were even more expensive at the beginning. And the Kindle is a wireless
device. (works everywhere). Most people it are used to get 99$ or free
cellphones, but they forget they are buying a heavy subsidized device which
will cost a lot more money down the road with their $60-$90/month service
rates.

~~~
erikwiffin
The Kindle is subsidized. You pay $9.99 every time you buy a book for it.

If I'm going to spend more than $100 on something like this, I really don't
want to have to continue to pay to keep it useful. On the other hand, to
subsidize the Kindle to the point where they could afford to sell it for $100,
they'd have to sell books for a lot more than $10, and (ignoring libraries and
used books) a paper back doesn't often cost too much more than $10.

~~~
ardit33
"The Kindle is subsidized." -- Not any more than an ipod/touch is. You are
actually paying the fair price for device is. An iphone at 99, is a heavily
subsidized device. The real cost would be more than $400-$500. You are paying
it down the road with the $70-$100/mo plan.

Technically, you can buy a kindle, and use it only for pdfs and never buy a
book, and that's still ok.

------
akmad
I would LOVE to get a Kindle. I enjoy the user experience and the convenience
of having all your books on a single small device would be amazing. That said,
I am never going to pay even $100 for a device that locks me into buying books
that I cannot loan to a friend or pass on to my kids. Not to mention that
roughly 75% of the books I read I'll never read again. This usage pattern
perfectly matches the free (excluding taxes) library system but is absolutely
terrible for a device like the Kindle.

Until the Kindle adds the ability to get a temporary copy of book from a
library (or other free service) and make it easy to transfer ownership of
books (either for free or for payment) I won't even consider buying one.

~~~
futuremint
"... or pass on to my kids." and "... roughly 75% of the books I read I'll
never read again." are mutually exclusive, no?

I read a lot of objections to the Kindle stating that you don't own the books.
Personally I read a book once and I'm done with it (unless its a
programming/reference book). I assume most people are the same way. So why
hoard books if you're not going to read them?

The other thing is that "buying" a book for the Kindle is more akin to
"renting" the book. You don't own it, Amazon does. You don't own a DVD you're
renting from Blockbuster, or Netflix, but I don't hear people complaining
about wasting that money.

I also think that if I'm going to read a book more than once, I'm going to buy
a hardback version of it and keep it on my bookshelf. If not, then I'll
buy/check-out a paperback book and donate/return it when I'm done reading it.

I think there are really two distinct kinds of books, and critics often
confuse the two.

(I don't own a Kindle, but have given some thought to it and read up on
people's objections)

~~~
akmad
""... or pass on to my kids." and "... roughly 75% of the books I read I'll
never read again." are mutually exclusive, no?"

Not in the least. I may not want to read them again but still consider them
worth passing on.

"..."buying" a book for the Kindle is more akin to "renting" the book"

This is exactly why I love libraries. I specifically want to own (outright, no
string attached) books that I will want to read again or have some other
retaining value. The Kindle gives me all the negatives of the library system
(no ownership) with all the negatives of the commercial system (expensive,
wasted money).

I wish the Kindle were more of a utility. Everyone buys one and it can be used
to buy, loan, and trade books. Amazon would make money because the Kindle
would be the TRUE iPod of the book world. However I'm not holding by breath
for this to happen (at least with the Kindle); but I am hoping that someone
else sees this opportunity and beats the Kindle into the ground.

------
warfangle
I have the kindle reader on my iphone, and was looking for some Camus to read
on it. Unfortunately, the only books available to kindle having anything to do
with Camus are books and essays about Camus, not actual Camus books (you
cannot, for example, purchase The Stranger for your kindle).

In fact, the two books I have bought for my kindle app I've ended up not
reading at all.

Even if the kindle dropped to the sweet spot price point, I probably wouldn't
get one. And I'm probably not the only one. Wasn't there an episode of Star
Trek where books were portrayed as an oddity: collectors items, status
symbols?

Once e-readers and books are inexpensive enough, it will be more expensive to
purchase a hard copy. And thus, they will turn into status symbols - I doubt
the market for them will disappear, just change. Sort of like how owning a
horse now is (somewhat) considered a status symbol.

~~~
unalone
I'm surprised more correlation hasn't been pointed out between the hardcover
book and the LP. Both are unnecessary embellishments to the data they hold
inside, but both have a set of advantages over pure digital information

------
futuremint
I don't think the opening premise is entirely accurate. Isn't one reason for
the iPhone's popularity (and most of Apple's devices/computers) that they
provide both a great experience and they're convenient (iTunes/App store,
reliability, "it just works" etc.)?

Later the author states that he believes price to be a factor of convenience
(which I would agree with), but that needs to be stated in the intro because I
was put off before even getting to the meat of the story.

~~~
potatolicious
Yeah, I'm going to call shenanigans on this article, and to be blunt, the
author is talking out of his ass.

The _very first sentence_ is the problem:

 _"Life, it turns out, is a series of tradeoffs between great experience and
high convenience."_

No, it isn't. By pretending this is a hard and fast rule to all things in
life, the author has taken the mistaken position that no product can ever be a
great experience _and_ be convenient at the same time. We know from experience
- the iPod/iTMS, the Wii, etc, that this is just clearly false.

The author then further fails to use even the most rudimentary logic:

 _"the entire e-reader market consisted of just 1 million units in all of
2008, and Amazon nabbed only a slice of it. By contrast, Microsoft sold about
1 million Zune music players..."_

Using this flawless logic, we can also surmise that the iPhone is a terrible
failure - just think about how many non-smartphones Nokia sold last year! The
iPhone only sold a fraction of those last year! Not all markets are built the
same. There's no reason to believe that the Kindle wasn't a huge success _in
its market. The problem with the Zune is that it failed to capture even a tiny
portion of_ its* target market - this comparison is completely invalid.

~~~
futuremint
Ah yes, the Wii is another example. I also have one of those :). Just recently
we also purchased a Keurig coffee maker (with the little cups, give you coffee
in about 3 blinks of an eye). Also a great experience thats wonderfully
convenient.

------
akmiller
Why is the author comparing the portable music player market with the e-reader
market. In no way are they similar so you can't just throw out that Microsoft
sold a million Zune's and the Kindle didn't even come close and use that as
evidence of failure. The e-book reader market is vastly smaller than the music
player market (which may in itself be somewhat unfortunate).

I actually think the price of the Kindle is very reasonable, when you figure
in that you don't have to pay a monthly fee for the cellular service. That was
a conscious decision made up front to not subsidize the device with a monthly
payment plan.

There have been many reports to indicate that the Kindle is doing just fine
including one recently that the NY Times Best Seller list is going to include
Kindle sales because of the large number of purchases.

------
Maro
(I don't have a Kindle.)

One of the most convenient things about a book is that it is rugged. I can
take it with me, read it anywhere, _throw it down_ , and it doesn't break. And
even if it does "break", I'm only loosing a few dollars on it (by the time it
comes apart, it's old).

So, if I'd be on the Kindle design team, I'd make it ridiculously rugged. You
should be able to handle it like a book. Also, the outside appearance should
be such that people automatically are handling it like one (eg. throwing it
around) instead of doing everything to keep it nice and scratch-free (like an
iPhone or Macbook). I'd put it in textile or hardpaper book-like covers that
you can grab and tear and then replace. Also, it must not get hot (or even
warm).

------
ScottBev
This hits home right now. I'm traveling more and reading less, because I hate
carrying books in my bags. I love the idea, but I can't get over the cost for
a limited use device. Especially when you can get a netbook for the same
price. Is the netbook as convenient for reading - no, but it can do the job.

At $300, I can't convince myself to take the plunge. $200 I could probably
convince myself, and at <$150 I'd have the Kindle already.

------
biohacker42
_He told me sales of the Kindle were sizzling. But that’s not quite the case
if you really look at numbers. While Amazon did sell out of Kindles in 2008,
it hadn’t actually made that many of them._

This exactly what I suspected, and got into a bit of pointless internet
arguing right here on HN over it, good times.

------
dangrover
I've got a DX and I love it, but I feel extremely silly paying for books on
it. Especially when the Kindle book is $9.99 and the paperback is $12.99.

~~~
unalone
Why silly? I'm curious.

~~~
dangrover
Because sometimes they're almost the price of the real thing, except I don't
know if I'll have them in a couple years (with DRM) and there's no way for me
to lend them to friends.

~~~
unalone
Considering Amazon apologized for the removal and offered $30 to the people
they offended, I think they've shown their intent is not to blindly remove
things, and I doubt they'd get away with trying. Furthermore, the DRM is easy
to crack.

------
edw519
_To beat the book, to be better than the book, Amazon..._

This is a classic case of a solution looking for a problem. I imagine that a
Kindle would be a great companion on a plane, a train, or in a backpack, but
other than that...

I can't imagine using one of these things at work or at home, where I do 90%
of my reading. I love books. I have shevles full of them in my home and
office. I love the feel and smell and the little notes I have written in them
over the years. I love to see all of them on my shelves or just a few spread
out on the bed or table. I love the manual process of leafing through them to
scan, to retrieve, or for no reason at all. They are my friends, old and new.

If the purpose of the Kindle was to augment personal reading for travel, then
great. But to be "better" than books, never.

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
People forget the emotional attachment we can have to things like books, works
of art, etc. I have books that are over 100 years old (gotta love sales at old
libraries!). I love feeling the paper and wondering about all the people who
have read those books, deciphering the little notes on the pages and thinking
about who wrote them. They're my little bits of history. Not to mention that
rummaging through old used book stores is a great way to spend an afternoon.

Even for travel I don't see the worth. I tend to avoid taking expensive things
on trips and even then, travel is an opportunity to see what there is to read
and learn about the location I arrive at rather than what I can take with me.

The Kindle surely has applications, but for me they are severely limited.

