
Scooters littering US city streets alarm: 'Unlock me or I'll call the police' - wallflower
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jun/07/scooters-littering-city-streets-shout-at-people-unlock-me-or-ill-call-the-police
======
larrik
I don't really see the racism slant the article is trying to paint all over
this stupidity.

~~~
gowld
That's because you don't view the police as a dangerous occupying force in
your community.

~~~
thucydidesofusa
I view the police as dangerous but recognize their danger as a necessary cost
for effectiveness.

I'm afraid of the police, but I'm more afraid of no police.

~~~
foobarbazetc
This is a very US centric view of policing.

~~~
protomyth
This is a very regional US centric view of policing.

------
Old_Thrashbarg
Scooters are litter?

Are parked cars litter? What about when a restaurants put a chair or table
outside on the sidewalk?

Maybe a closer analogy is the other kind of electric scooter (as in the mopeds
like Scoot). Never heard them called litter. So is being on the sidewalk vs
the street what determines if it's litter?

~~~
ceejayoz
> Are parked cars litter?

If you leave them outside of a designated parking spot, sure.

> What about when a restaurants put a chair or table outside on the sidewalk?

That probably depends on who owns the sidewalk.

~~~
LukaD
> If you leave them outside of a designated parking spot, sure.

What if designate about a third of the city's public space as scooter parking
spots? Would that be ok?

To me all the cars that fill my city, standing around being useless 90% of the
time, are nothing but litter.

------
scotty79
> “This is not only an annoying noise, this is a threat to people. For black
> people, that can really be experienced as a death threat,”

This is so effed up it's beyond words.

> said Kaplan, who is crafting legislation to regulate the scooters and now
> plans to add a proposal to prohibit loud noises and threats.

Sure that's the right way to approach the problem of black people fearing for
their lives every time anyone decides to loudly announce the possible need for
involvement of government employees to conform with the laws.

~~~
chrismcb
These are two separate problems. Kaplan is trying to address one issue. That
didn't mean the other issue isn't also being addressed. Even if you solved the
issue of people fearing for their lives, the other issue still exists and
needs to be addressed.

------
gowld
This is litter and vandalism. Why aren't people calling the police/city to
remove this junk from the streets, and fine the owners for illegal dumping?

~~~
jdavis703
No it isn't. We give free space to cars, trucks and bicycles. Why not
scooters? Is it because they are owned by a corporation? If so should rental
cars and car shares be banned?

~~~
ceejayoz
We, as a _society_ , have decided to give space to cars, trucks, and bicycles,
generally in a controlled fashion.

If I randomly leave any of them in the middle of the street or sidewalk,
they'll be ticketed, towed, or removed.

~~~
DubiousPusher
> We, as a society, have decided to give space to cars, trucks, and bicycles,
> generally in a controlled fashion.

Exactly. To be fair though this was only after a fair amount of vehicular
chaos.

------
eggbrain
For everyone curious as to what the alarm sounds like in person:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsW4kIg4PQc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsW4kIg4PQc)

------
toomuchtodo
Anyone know if people have started to gather these scooters up and part them
out?

~~~
bifrost
Yep, it happens in SF. I've walked by several encampments and they're getting
parted out fast.

~~~
beenBoutIT
Uber will end up winning by being able to lose the most scooters and replace
them the fastest.

~~~
masonic
They'll lose money on every one, but they'll make it up in volume.

------
aprrrr
I don't understand the legal or ethical rationale that these scooters are
different from any other items discarded on the sidewalk.

This is different from leaving your personal scooter for a few minutes while
you shop, or from someone accidentally dropping their wallet or phone. If you
intentionally strew things around in public and leave them there, why
shouldn't anyone do with them as they like? How is this not littering for
profit?

The reasoning of, "I left this thing on the sidewalk...I have no plans to come
back for it any time soon...I hope someone comes along and wires me money to
use it for a bit then drops it somewhere else...but don't you dare touch it
unless you pay me!" seems specious.

That is not part of the social contract. No one has a reasonable expectation
to use the sidewalk as an unattended warehouse or storefront for as long as
they like. At best, this is gaming the question of what is or isn't abandoned
property.

~~~
gojomo
Huh? In a high-trust society, you absolutely _can_ leave personal or business
property in a shared public area, with the vague expectation it will be
moved/reclaimed "soonish" (such as "before nightfall" or "within a day").

In some cases, there are posted limits: 2-hour parking; 72-hour maximum; etc.

You can also often leave temporary signs/markings (like sidewalk chalk or
"garage sale"/"lost pet" posters). You can hand out flyers/coupons or solicit
signatures on the sidewalks. You can monopolize a public field/court for a
temporary period simply by starting to play/picnic there with friends. You can
leave boxes/deliveries/garbage on sidewalks and in parking-spaces for later
pick-up.

How can there be confusion that a branded scooter, which squawks when moved
without authorization (just like other laptop/vehicle/shopping-
cart/shoplifting security devices), is "abandoned property"?

Further, both the proprietor's needs (to recharge/inventory) and typical usage
patterns mean these scooters seldom stay in one spot for more than a few hours
– the same commons impact as if they were widely-owned personal scooters.

So dockless scooters look to me like an innovative use of the commons, fairly
analogous to other precedents. Sure, if specific negatives are detected, and
outweigh the positive until ameliorated, new rules could then be required.

But in a free, high-trust country, the default should be permissiveness until
harm can be shown. It's obtuse to shoehorn something new into the category of
"litter", when that's clearly not the intent of those responsible nor the
practical impact.

------
beenBoutIT
Sounds like a lone drifter ambling about could kick down a row of these and
execute a DDOS attack on whatever emergency lines the scooters are wired into.

~~~
_rpd
> Repeatedly touching a scooter for 10 minutes in Oakland on Wednesday
> afternoon did not result in a response or call to police.

Looks like the company doesn't even make a call, probably to avoid the high
fines for nuisance calls.

~~~
beenBoutIT
Oakland has a shortage of police officers and calling the OPD generally
wouldn't result in a response in 10 minutes. I've heard stories of waiting
several hours for officers to arrive.

------
assblaster
This article says the word "police" is racist.

>Built-in alarm sparks anger from city officials amid concerns over racism and
policing: ‘This is a threat to people’

~~~
bifrost
Unfortunately, until we have a secondary form of law enforcement that is what
you should do if someone is stealing...

~~~
seiferteric
Who is stealing? It sounds like this is essentially abandoned property in city
streets?

~~~
bifrost
If you're walking off with someone else's property without their permission to
use it, its not abandoned and is stealing.

~~~
seiferteric
I think the law is not so clear on that as you seem to think. How long can the
scooter sit there? Eventually it could be considered abandoned if they are not
coming to pick it up ever.

~~~
bifrost
If it was truly abandoned, maybe. However if the scooter is alerting that its
being stolen its probably not abandoned... We're not talking about sitting
somewhere for a week, more like a couple hours, I doubt you'll find anyone who
reasonably thinks thats abandoned.

~~~
pests
I don't think you understand the scale at which these scooters are left.

~~~
bifrost
I live in San Francisco, I understand the problem well. The scale is
irrelevant to the property issue.

------
jerf
Anyone have a recording of the audio played? A quick cruise to YouTube came up
empty, though perhaps your search terms will be better than mine.

~~~
eggbrain
Found someone uploaded it to YouTube here:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsW4kIg4PQc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsW4kIg4PQc)

~~~
jerf
Thank you, perfect.

------
deepdiving12
No publicity is bad publicity I guess?

------
LukaD
Where's the outcry over cars littering the city?

------
foobarbazetc
Lol no police officer is going to give a f __k what happens to one of these
scooters.

They should all be launched into the sun.

------
nacho2sweet
Kick these NARC scooters to the ground or throw them in a dumpster.

------
rdtsc
Move fast, break things, litter, threaten to jail people - the new agile
startup manifesto. I would be curious to hear the backstory of how this
decision was made. Someone had to propose the idea and someone in charge had
to approve. Then nobody around them chimed in with "hey this is a bad idea".
Granted they were already planning on dumping their trash on the streets
anyway so ethical considerations were probably not at the top of the list...

~~~
ceejayoz
Yeah, it's a genuinely baffling decision.

A polite "Hey! Looks like you're checking out our scooter! For more info, head
to example.com - use COUPONCODE for $5 off your first ride!" seems like it'd
be equally effective at getting the message across and far less off-putting.

~~~
_rpd
Maybe they are experiencing really high levels of theft and are desperate to
do something to stem the loss?

~~~
ceejayoz
An actual thief is probably going to laugh and roll their eyes at the idea
that the police will respond to an automated 911 call from a scooter left on
the sidewalk.

~~~
malchow
Isn't it the case, in SF, that police do not even respond to actual automobile
break-ins when their very owners call to request police aid?

If a smashed window + stolen laptop (total loss: ~$2,500) can't convince the
SF police to lift a finger, I doubt a scooter (~$400) will. Sad situation all
around.

~~~
seiferteric
I agree, they would never respond to such a call. Moreover if it actually
flooded the dispatch with calls they would probably be in big trouble. I am
sure it is an empty threat.

------
alottafunchata
You have to be fucking kidding me

------
dsfyu404ed
Just from reading the title you know this is a CA startup because the scooter
threatens to call the police. If it were a TX startup the scooter would
threaten to defend itself with force in proportion to the threat. (In case you
were wondering, that's a joke).

The city has all sorts of tricks it uses to make life easy for people on it's
side and hard for its perceived enemies.

If the city cared about resolving this it would do these (or similar) things
because that's how government works. It makes a bunch of rules that are insane
when followed at either extreme, normally runs near the middle and then picks
and chooses which extreme to apply for situations it thinks warrant special
treatment (when the government is bad at choosing this is called corruption).

They can impound the scooters without due process and then just say "oops"
when ordered to return them. If you're a big enough jerk (as defined by the
city's opinion which doesn't necessarily correlate with the truth) to be known
to the traffic enforcement people this is probably exactly what would happen.

Alternatively they can just make a big show out of not prosecuting people for
stealing them.

Clearly this isn't really a problem as far as the city government cares so
they're just letting it run its course.

