
Founder who lived with bipolar for years started a company to tackle the stigma - marojejian
https://www.forbes.com/sites/meganbruneau/2018/04/14/this-founder-lived-with-a-secret-bipolar-diagnosis-for-years-today-his-company-tackles-the-stigma/#6ca4b20f49f7
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seibelj
My belief is that everyone has minor bouts of mania and depression, and
bipolar people just experience it more extreme. My psychiatrists have flirted
with a bipolar diagnosis but ultimately they think it’s standard anxiety /
depression.

Every few months I go through a week where I barely sleep, my mind is racing,
work nonstop, empathy decreases, basically feel on top of the world. And
similar every few months I will have a week where I can barely get out of bed,
no motivation, apathetic, can barely focus.

I have mechanisms learned to deal with both situations and it has very little
effect on my life. I can recognize it and so does my wife. So does this mean
I’m bipolar? “Minorly bipolar?”

Psychiatrist diagnoses do not have true tests. They get made based on
observations and written tests. It’s useful to give things names, but mental
health in general is very weird and unpredictable. Drugs work but doctors have
to theorize as to why they work.

I know this is unrelated to the company in the article, but maybe this post is
useful to the discussion / someone experiencing similar things.

~~~
bipolarengineer
> My belief is that everyone has minor bouts of mania and depression, and
> bipolar people just experience it more extreme

if you read about the symptoms of bipolar disorder you will see that it is a
bit more complex than this.

[http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/bipolar-
disorder/index...](http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/bipolar-
disorder/index.shtml#part_145404)

Take a look at the list of manic / depressive episode symptoms. Every single
one of those applies to me in a very extreme way - i have been hospitalized
once and believe i am going to be again soon as i feel very similar currently
as i did in the past.

Edit:

oh also forgot to mention - i appear to be the kind of bipolar which comes
with a touch of psychosis... its definitely more complex than the minor ups
and downs of a normal person.

second edit: yes you sound bipolar and should probably get it under control
because its pretty much wrecking my life now and had i not ignored the signs /
knew what to look for earlier in life i would be in better shape right now.

~~~
ModernMech
Sleep. Sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep is the key. I cannot stress that enough.
Sleep and schedule. Wake up at the same time every day, no. matter. what.
Don't stay out late just cause it's the weekend, don't go out partying just
cause your friends are. Don't pull an all-nighter just to get an A on a test
or meet a deadline. Once your sleep gets out of whack, a manic bout is not far
behind, and that's 6+ months of your life turned into chaos. If you find
yourself staying up all night, unable to sleep, that should be a huge warning
sign.

I speak from experience. Lots of it.

~~~
cassowary37
Amen, and well said. I'm a psychiatrist and I worry the most about sleep, full
stop. In a disease (or set of diseases, or whatever) that can make people feel
so out of control, sleep is one of the best ways to take back control.

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bpchaps
Good. The stigma around bipolar is absolute hell for those of us who have it.
Having rational and largely unemotional conversations about it with friends,
family and co-workers is a near constant struggle, when even possible. Just
mentioning it is enough to get responses like, "Yeah, but everyone has a
mental health disorder!" to change the subject.

Hopefully the social stigma around even discussing mental health will go away
in my lifetime, but I'm not holding my breath.

~~~
phkahler
>> Having rational and largely unemotional conversations about it with
friends, family and co-workers is a near constant struggle, when even
possible. Just mentioning it is enough to get responses like, "Yeah, but
everyone has a mental health disorder!" to change the subject.

I'm wondering what the stigma is. From what you said people don't make a big
deal of it and may even be dismissive. Or are you saying they refuse to
acknowledge it as a problem and change the subject? While not helpful, it's
not making fun of you either. I know people who are bipolar and the only
people I've seen who think much negative about that are the people who have
it. Perhaps my observations are missing something major? Are people actually
hard on those with bipolar? How does the stigma manifest?

I feel like I'm really ignorant about something here.

~~~
dindumuffin
If mental illnesses are underdiagnosed, then it might be that the majority of
the population could have some kind of disorder of varying scales on any
spectrum.

With how many different things can go wrong with our complex neurologies
combined with tens of milennia of racial inbreeding it'd be surprising for
anyone to have completely spotless mental health, just as few men and women
are blessed with perfect bodily health free of rashes and allergies and
proportional assymetries.

Personally, I have a variety of brain related disorders which I must contend
with on a daily basis but also make me good at spotting others with my
experience across anbroad range of symtpoms. So when someone says to me
"everyone has a mental health disorder" I just assume that they have a mental
disorder and agree with them.

~~~
phkahler
>> So when someone says to me "everyone has a mental health disorder" I just
assume that they have a mental disorder and agree with them.

I totally agree with this. If there's no one around you might even say "yeah,
wanna share, what's yours?"

"There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who have faced their issues
and are a work in progress, and those who have not." Yeah yeah, projection,
black and white, all-or-nothing, splitting, etc... It's still a fun thing to
say.

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throwaway2501
Wow! This thread (not the article) has got me questioning if I am in fact
bipolar. Up until recently my diagnosis has been depression, but after reading
the highs and lows others here experience, it looks more and more like what I
in fact go through - and it makes sense, as I usually only see a therapist
while depressed, and usually stop when I "feel better", which usually only
lasts a few weeks or months. That might explain why it's never been caught.

Up until reading the comments here, I didn't realize that when I feel
"normal"/not depressed, it might actually be a mania swing. I feel great, like
happy for no reason, I work extended hours without noticing (14-16 hour days).
I'm crazy hyper, and during these times are when I express my opinions
(usually at work) and piss a lot of people off. These phases are also usually
when I actually go out to meet people and/or hookup with women. When I feel
like this is usually when I quit a job without considering I have no savings,
or how hard it might be to get a new job quick. I day dream about a life
outside of software, living in the wild and by myself. I never put 2 and 2
together, but following these super productive weeks is usually a hard swing
into depression - the kind where I can barely work at all, and really struggle
to get out of bed, take care of my kids, eat, or shower. The downswing into
depression usually lasts much longer than the upswing where I feel wonderful,
or at least it feels that way. And the entire time I'm wishing I could feel
good again like I did the week before when I had no problems working or taking
care of myself.

Someone here mentioned a daily mood diary - that's a brilliant idea! I'm going
to start tracking my moods and see if I can graph a pattern out of them, or at
least be able to tell when swings are coming so I can be prepared for them. I
have really bad anxiety, and the constant back and forth really takes its toll
on me, which deepens my depression to the point where I've thought about
ending it all, but haven't because I have children that need me - but every
now and then for 1/4 of a second a quick fantasy of dying will fly through my
mind when I'm at a location where it's actually possible to do so - for
example hiking to the top of a mountain not but a few weeks ago, taking in the
view, and for a brief moment had the urge to just jump off the side onto the
rocks below. It scared the shit out of me!

------
marojejian
FYI - I am Daniel's co-founder, if you have any questions on Campfire or
whatev's.

~~~
limeblack
In the same way that ADHD is very much agreed to be over diagnosed, do you
believe bipolar might also be over diagnosed? I have seen family members
conditions worsen after treatment(which may just be a coincidence), or maybe
the inadequacy and/or causation of treatment.

~~~
bitL
I think "borderline" is what is now the sweeping diagnosis for everything that
can't be boxed properly to any of the available shelves, and that one might be
overused more. When you know some true BPDs in real-life, it's not fun at all
- cut wrists, irreversible body modifications, constant threats of suicide,
used as a back-up when important plans fail, use of other people for
validation, inability to hold consistent mental state etc. Bipolar comparing
to that seems pretty benign even if it's terrible enough.

~~~
dbasedweeb
BPD is a really specific personality disorder with fairly clear
characteristics. While personality orders in general are somewhat
controversial, and notoriously difficult to treat, I’d be interested in seeing
evidence of overdiagnosis.

Depression on its own can be crippling and lethal, so complicating it with an
addictive, potentially reckless or even psychotic second state is a nightmare.
Mania is often misunderstood as just elevated mood and high energy, but the
reality is more often of the “running up crushing debt, promiscuous and
dangerous sexual activity” flavor than “spent all week coding a masterpiece.”

In extremes mania leads to a psychotic break to the point of being difficult
to distinguish (even in a clinical setting) from schizophrenia. I knew a
lovely guy who worked on motorcycles for Harley, and he was always troubled,
classically bipolar, but refused to get help because he loved the highs. Then
one day I got a call from his wife that he had spent three days “talking to
Jesus and the devil” and pleading the case for his soul. He had to be
committed for observation, which turned into weeks and then months of
inpatient care. Bipolar disorder really is no joke, and the tendency for
people with the disorder to struggle with substance abuse doesn’t help. “Dual
diagnosis” is a phrase that portends a world of trouble, especially if you’re
not wealthy enough to avoid various aspects of the system.

The last point is that BPD typically improves with age, while bipolar disorder
typically becomes worse.

~~~
limeblack
> In extremes mania leads to a psychotic break to the point of being difficult
> to distinguish (even in a clinical setting) from schizophrenia.

If you read some of my other posts on this page this is exactly my frustration
with the current diagnosis. People who should be diagnosed with borderline
Schizophrenia(hallucinations and/or voices) are being bundled with those that
simply are getting angry.

------
baus
I am glad to see this topic being approached openly on HN. I was diagnosed a
few years ago after a series of life changing episodes which eventually lead
to my hospitalization.

This has significantly effected my life. There are no easy solutions, and like
many people I've found the treatment at times to be as bad as the symptoms.

I think the idea of campfire is a good one, and will probably give it a try.
In the meantime, I'm always open for to discuss the topic if anyone wants to
contact me directly.

~~~
dindumuffin
Have you tried weed or CBD supplements? It helped with my bipolar and
levelling my emotions to deal with a job and daily life.

------
aoner
I have a friend that is recently diagnosed with a bipolar disorder (he just
had a hypomanic episode followed by a psychosis). So I think he should be
hospitalized to learn more about his bipolar disorder. The problem is that if
he wants to be hospitalized, he needs to take medication (which he is hesitant
about). The care is really good and includes psychiatrists. I’d love to hear
people’s opinion with a bipolar disorder on using medication. When do you
recommend it and what do you recommend? What would you recommend my friend to
do?

~~~
bipolarengineer
your friend should definitely seek professional help. all i can do is share my
own experience:

when this happened to me a family member drove me to the hospital and
suggested that i check myself in. i filled out paperwork, answered some
questions and signed myself in.

then the "fun" began. i was taken to a room where an armed guard watched the
door. I was given a robe and they took my wallet and clothes while I waited in
a room with a large glass window. in the room across from me was another guy
and he was completely losing his shit -- screaming and pounding on the walls.

That first experience felt what i imagine jail feels like and due to my state
of mind i was convinced that my family had tricked me and put me in jail. i
was very confused and started having a panic attack. eventually i was lead to
a room with several hospital beds where i was given a sedative and went to
sleep.

later i was lead upstairs, had my face photographed and printed out for a
folder. then i was taken to another room where i had to get naked while two
male nurses watched and checked me for birth marks and tattoos.

thankfully i was given a single room for the first few days and could keep to
myself because i don't do well with others in situations like these.

everything else was pretty much what i expected. i mainly sat around in the
rec room on drugs playing cards and chess with the other patients and nurses.
there were several homeless guys in there, some people that seemed to be
scamming, terrible food, and a really loud television.

They have group shave / haircut sessions, group therapy (which included
dancing and some other stuff).

Honestly it didn't really help me cope with my newly discovered mental
illness, it just made me feel like i had hit rock bottom. i was given a pile
of drugs and sent on my way. the therapist i was assigned to was extremely
amateur and his solution for me was "phone apps". The psychiatrist i was
assigned to was very hung up on me not doing street drugs (i don't).

none of these humans attempted to get much story about my current life
situation or past. they heard me ramble off a bunch of crazy shit and then
decided their pre-scripted solutions were best for me, and when it doesn't
work then the blame is thrown back on me. very very frustrating process.

~~~
aoner
Thanks for sharing, appreciated! My friend is currently in a “normalish” state
of mind. I think/hope the care he might receive (academic hospital in the
Netherlands) does not resemble your (terrible) experience. I feel a lot of
people can’t relate to such states of mind and because of that don’t know how
to respond. I’ve done shrooms multiple times and the things people describe
during pshychosis/hypomania are more recognizable to me. I think that if
you’ve learned how to guide yourself out of a bad trip you can use that
knowledge in understanding and helping others.

Are you using any medication right now? What are some things (medication wise)
that did or did not help you?

------
al_chemist
> This Founder Lived with Bipolar for Years. Today His Company Tackles the
> Stigma

Click-bait title

~~~
dang
We've reworded it.

