
If high street shopping was like online shopping [video] - eitland
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p083mv25
======
OJFord
Well that's not right, she only had to look through _one_ frame of squares,
and he didn't ask her to identify things she's never seen in her home or local
country!

(I refer to the American 'parking meters', 'crosswalks', and to a lesser
extent traffic lights, that Google makes me spot even on UK-only sites.)

~~~
LargoLasskhyfv
Isn't that called "intercultural competence" ?

~~~
OJFord
Ha. Maybe. Or is it Google's lack of intercultural competence to not
understand that I don't have 'crosswalks' and that traffic lights and (another
I forgot above) fire 'hydrants' (not called that) look different here?

It's not like it shows images from around the world, it just shows American
images to everyone around the world.

~~~
LargoLasskhyfv
For me it did. ISTR something in Spanish, so I'd guess Mexico at least, and
I've definitely seen Asian scripts on road signs sometimes, while having a
German IP.

~~~
OJFord
I've seen Asian scripts when asked to identify 'storefronts' (also not called
that) - but I just assumed they were takeaways. Sorry - 'takeouts'.

Anyway, regardless of if it's global or just American, the point here is that
I don't have to answer questions about images of other countries when I shop
on a British high street!

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Lio
If this was _really_ like shopping online then a loud, brash arsehole would
jump between her and the counter as she walked in and demand that she sign up
to their newsletter before she was able to look at any goods...

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eitland
Beautifully done, as a developer it makes me cringe on behalf of my
profession.

Covers invasive collection of personal details, "security questions", upsells,
ReCaptcha and more.

Please consider sharing with your teams everyone : )

~~~
beefield
Not sure the primary fault is on the developers asked to implement these...

~~~
onion2k
If you're working in a job where developers are just dumb code monkeys who get
told what to do and do it whatever happens, and that developers aren't
considered part of the team behind a feature and have no way to influence what
gets built, then _leave_. There are better jobs out there that won't make you
feel ashamed of what you deploy.

~~~
csunbird
I am not sure why people put developers on a morally high status like they are
able to choose what kind of job that they can do, then try to shame them
publicly for the work they do, but I do not see any difference between a
forced developer who wants to have a job and get by in their lives, and a
telemarketer making calls to the potential customers.

~~~
dalbasal
People complain about telemarketers all the time. It's not like they get a
pass.

Sure, the actual blame may fall on whoever decided to hire all those
telemarketers to defraud the elderly but... they're also just trying to have a
job. The ceo is just trying to have a profitable company. The shareholders are
just trying to have a pension. Consumers are just trying to shop conveniently.

From the perspective of the complainer, the thing is the part of the thing
that they see. Telemarketing is telemarketers. Software is the UX. Mindless
bureaucracy is the person standing in front of them. Etc.

If you're going to come to the defence of anyone, defend someone who is
standing in front of the disgruntled consumer, earning peanuts. Developers are
generally well paid, mobile and don't ever face the person they're driving
crazy.

Anyway, developers (and software companies) put _themselves_ on this high
status pedestal in the early 2000s. The web was full of developer philosophy
touting developer agency, morals, and such. Comes around. Goes around.
Chickens roust. Pick yours cliche.

~~~
csunbird
> Anyway, developers (and software companies) put themselves on this high
> status pedestal in the early 2000s. The web was full of developer philosophy
> touting developer agency, morals, and such. Comes around. Goes around.
> Chickens roust. Pick yours cliche.

Exactly the point I am trying to make. People complain about telemarketers all
the time but they actually do know that those people are just trying to get by
and have no actual choice.

Developers think other developers are just able to say "f you" to their boss
and leave the job and get a new one next day, but this is not the reality. Is
this a reality for the majority of audience of HN? Can they do that? Because I
can't.

~~~
dalbasal
I get what you're saying and it is all relative, but I'd say "yes" in a
general sense. Developers have more agency than most people at working class
jobs like telemarketers.

"More" agency is not full agency, but if we're thinking in shades of grey,
then I think it's a substantial delta. The stuff developers read and ideas
they care about have influence.

For example, agile, TDD, and other buzzword methods for managing software
teams started by gaining traction among developers. There is no equivalent for
telemarketers. No one cares what they read or think. You can spy on their
screen, time their toilet breaks, etc. Software companies do not want
developers to think they are bullshit. They don't care either way for CS
agents.

It is a matter of degrees though. It's not like an average developer can say
no! to some crappy verification step that higher-ups promised their payment
processor. I'd also say that agency is waning in the era of big tech.

~~~
ryandrake
This topic comes up a lot here. How about just 3 days ago [1]? It's so
strange, on one hand, we act like software developers are in high demand, and
can be choosy about their work, and on the other hand, act like they have no
agency over their work and are limited to just saying "yes, boss, whatever you
say, boss" to bad software design.

At the end of the day, it's the developer who types in the code and pushes.
Developers should share the blame for what they create. It's not just those
mean horrible managers _forcing us all_ to write bad UX. It's your choice as a
developer to type git commit.

I don't think this opinion comes out of privilege. It you have no subject
matter control over your work, you're not a developer--you're a typist.

1:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24384794](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24384794)

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jonplackett
This is the number one reason Amazon is winning everything. It's not even the
cheapest anymore. But it's such a hassle shopping at other websites. Even
supermarkets that should know better - making an order, even once you've
clicked 'checkout' is sometimes 10 clicks or more. It's painful!

~~~
mytailorisrich
Amazon has also prioritized customer experience both when things go right
_and_ when things go wrong.

Many other online stores are all shiny with nice slogans but if you have a
problem and need customer support then good luck.

This is also visible in the fact that Amazon makes it simple to cancel an
order before it ships (just one click) and that they don't charge until an
item ships.

~~~
dazc
Two recent experiences with amazon returns:

1)Keep the item, no charge (small ticket price item delivered twice by
mistake). 2)We've refunded you, and for your inconvenience we've topped up
your gift card by £5. (delayed delivery so cancelled).

Most other UK stores: 1)Please jump through several hoops and go an hour out
of way to send it back to us (at your own expense) then it's 50/50 if ever
hear another thing. 2)No reply whatsoever

------
festive-minsky
A cookie banner in the doorway should get stuck to her face as she walks in

~~~
personlurking
Or kids dressed in cookie costumes follow her when she leaves

~~~
Lio
Yeah there should be a sleazy looking guy in a raincoat recording everything
she does and trying to follow her into the toilet.

Bonus points if they occasionally turn to another raincoat and whisper about
her.

------
schappim
>> This is the number one reason Amazon is winning everything. It's not even
the cheapest anymore. But it's such a hassle shopping at other websites.

Speaking as an online merchant, we default to guest checkout and we regularly
get emails "how do we register for checkout".

It would seem customers have been trained that they need to register before
checkout.

~~~
arkitaip
Everything is behavior online and behavioral design is everything for a smooth
experience. What we could need is a mechanism where you can reliably and
safely provide stores with ALL required personal and payment details with the
click of a button. Currently, not even autofill works satisfactory due to a
myriad of reasons.

~~~
Nextgrid
We have that mechanism, it's called Apple Pay. I believe Google Pay does the
same. The problem is that for both incompetence (they don't have good
developers that can integrate it in their third-party eCommerce solution) and
malice (one-click Apple Pay checkout won't allow them to implement dark
patterns and upsells) it's never done.

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gitowiec
The way men behave in this video makes me feel weird - am I homophobic? I
don't meet people like this on daily basis, I don't meet them at all. Are
there men like this or is this just acting which is an exaggeration? I don't
recognize my feelings well, but it feels hard. I wouldn't feel like myself
around such a man.

~~~
ForHackernews
> am I homophobic?

Maybe, yes, a little bit? At the very least it's worth considering that
possibility -- it's not necessarily any slight against you: most people were
raised in cultures that are at least a bit casually homophobic, and it's hard
to ask anyone to completely transcend the culture you were born into.

On the other hand, maybe you're reacting negatively to the faux-
obsequiousness, the pretending to be subservient and helpful while actually
obstructing and frustrating the customer's desires? Does the female shop
assistant also annoy you? In the same way or a different way?

Maybe reflect on why you feel uncomfortable?

~~~
gitowiec
Thank you. Your analysis showed me other side of that acting, it let me
interpret that skit as a whole.

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dvirsky
I was totally expecting them to go and creepily stalk her around town with
crappy retargeting.

~~~
Nextgrid
That's an opportunity for the next episode!

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globular-toast
I actually have, on multiple occasions, had high street shops ask for my name
and other details. Thankfully I've never had any problems making the purchase
after I politely decline to give them anything.

~~~
Nextgrid
Yes, the intrusive marketing cancer is actually spreading to the high street
too. They're now asking for e-mails under the excuse of sending you your
receipt and saving the planet (no need for paper) but obviously you will get
spam and no doubt that this e-mail will also be shared with advertising
partners such as Facebook.

~~~
Lio
I very much enjoy telling people in shops that I don't have an email address
when they ask.

You can practically see the cogs whirring as they try to comprehend that
before they realise that, of course, I'm looking them in eye and lying to
them.

This is particularly funny in a computer store.

~~~
082349872349872
Is there a name for making excuses that are deliberately implausible, but more
ironic than euphemistic? Asking for a friend.

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deepstack
Yeah, this is the exact reasons why I don't like online shopping. It can be
convenient, however find it very annoying the last few years.

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Regenschirm
yes i want to keep my shopping card for longer then 10 minutes

No i don't want the session being terminated after 20 minutes.

Yes i want to order as a guest.

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LargoLasskhyfv
Great!

