
Last.fm is ending their streaming radio service in April - dmix
http://www.last.fm/forum/21717/_/2226535
======
DjangoReinhardt
I am more disappointed by the comments than the announcement itself. The first
few comments seem to be blaming last.fm for 'giving up' without actually
trying to understand why they made those (extremely) difficult choices.

The music publishing and licensing industry (vastly different from the actual
creators, mind you) isn't as straightforward as people believe it to be. Music
licenses are extremely tricky and (often) subject to the whims of the
publishing labels.

There is no standard rate for a licensing specific tracks (or set of tracks)
and the licenses that are available in the market are either too broad and
expensive or too narrow and useless.

The entertainment industry in general is a mess - nobody knows how to handle
the internet as a viable platform and nobody is willing to risk their profits
to attempt and make mistakes either. They are trying to force an outdated
method built for a one-way channel (needle-hour plays) on a platform that
primarily believes in two-way interactivity.

In other words, they are trying to license content by syndication in a world
where RSS, APIs and interactive conversations are the norm - not only is it a
ridiculously laughable concept, but it goes against the very grain of the
entire thing.

The whole entertainment publishing and licensing industry is in dire need of
an overhaul. Unfortunately, the question everyone is too busy asking, is the
question everyone should be trying to answer together: "Who will bell the
cat?"

~~~
doesnt_know
The Music and Video game industries are already "fixed". The web is bursting
with quality independent content that is either Free, free or priced well and
delivered without DRM. The choice is already there, it's no ones fault but
your own if the only content you care about is the stuff pushed by these toxic
companies.

Your comment does seem to apply to the TV and Film industry though. An indie
film equivalent of Bandcamp would be great. Bollocks to the current movement
with their film festivals and limited screenings, at least make a fucking
effort to be accessible.

~~~
watwut
Would you provide links? I would be interested in them.

~~~
doesnt_know
Is there something specific you would like me to link? I'm really not
exaggerating when I say the web is overflowing with this content. I could link
some of the "big" names, but for every one there are dozens or hundreds of
similar sites. It's never-ending, especially since almost every indie
artist/dev promotes other indies.

[https://bandcamp.com/](https://bandcamp.com/)

[http://www.jamendo.com/](http://www.jamendo.com/)

[https://soundcloud.com/](https://soundcloud.com/)

[http://freemusicarchive.org/](http://freemusicarchive.org/)

[http://itch.io/](http://itch.io/)

[http://www.gog.com/](http://www.gog.com/)

[https://www.humblebundle.com/](https://www.humblebundle.com/)

[http://www.indieroyale.com/](http://www.indieroyale.com/)

[https://libregamewiki.org/Main_Page](https://libregamewiki.org/Main_Page)

~~~
narrator
Don't forget [http://www.ektoplazm.com/](http://www.ektoplazm.com/) .
Completely free music, mostly psytrance and dance, 100s of cds worth, you
can't even buy it if you wanted. Lots of it is very good. The business model
for artists seems to be to release free music and get yourself promoted enough
that you get invited to DJ at electronic music festivals. The record sales are
total peanuts so why even bother. The site crowdfunds redesigns and such but
mostly people work on it because they really like the music.

------
davexunit
If last.fm disappoints you, consider helping GNU FM by improving the software,
using [http://libre.fm](http://libre.fm), or starting up your own GNU FM
server.

Libre.fm is the main instance of the GNU FM software. GNU FM is compatible
with the audioscrobbler API and supports streaming. Additionally, you can
mirror your scrobbles from GNU FM to last.fm if you want. Libre.fm is a great
if you want to check out some free culture music.

~~~
stuaxo
I guess it can only stream libre music though ?

I can't imagine how it could stream music from artists I already know..

~~~
davexunit
It is the policy of libre.fm to only host free culture music, but that doesn't
mean that you (or another motivated person) could take GNU FM and start up a
service that streams music that's licensed differently. Provided that you have
the right to do so, of course.

~~~
tunesmith
Unfortunately (from the perspective of a songwriter), a lot of people will
take that as wink-wink nudge-nudge. Anyway, a non-profit streaming service
that is voluntarily populated _only_ by indie artists that control their own
licensing terms (in exchange for revenue share) would a good thing.

~~~
davexunit
What is "wink-wink nudge-nudge"? Do you think I'm promoting violating
licenses?

I'm a musician, too. I meant that someone could start a GNU FM service and
stream music that has been licensed legally from musicians.

~~~
omegant
pertinent [http://youtu.be/ona-RhLfRfc](http://youtu.be/ona-RhLfRfc)

------
slazaro
I've been scrobbling for many years, and marking tracks as "loved", but never
used the radio itself. I used the recommendations for new music and events,
and now I use Spotify for listening music, and the last.fm app inside Spotify
to discover new music. It works pretty well for me.

------
orthecreedence
Well, that sucks! I've discovered so many awesome bands and great songs over
the years from Last.fm's streaming service, including a lot of underground
stuff I wouldn't expect a site like that to have. I always wondered how they
managed to keep the doors open without a paid service. Guess they cant =/.

~~~
yread
Try grooveshark, they also "similar artists". It's less precise - it shows
artists which are quite different (but I can imagine people listening to them
both) but that may be an advantage you get a wider set of bands

~~~
jamesbritt
This is an interesting problem. I want to discover new music, but not at
random. However, being offered a whole lot of "sounds just like" music tends
to reinforce a local maxima (so to speak).

What I want are people with taste kinda-sorta like mine to tell me, Hey check
this is out, and pass me something _not_ like everything else I listen to, yet
somehow in the realm of stuff I might probably like.

~~~
d0m
I had a similar problem and Grooveshark helped me (But they now removed that
feature, I've complained but they don't care.)

My hack was to search for playlists containing a song I liked. So I would find
a "rock" playlist with lots of songs I knew but a couple very good ones I
didn't.

As a startup idea, I was thinking of a "Github for playlist". Basically,
abstracting the different "streaming" services and really focus on the quality
of the playlist.

Anyone could fork your playlist, add a few songs, and do a "pull request". The
cool thing is how I could be subscribed to your playlist and since I trust
your taste, I would get notifications when you add or accept new songs.

I see some kind of hierarchy where there could be "stable" playlist that are
updated conservatively but also other "unstable" playlists where it changes
often so you can discover more song.

That would definitely be a service I would use by following other good
playlists but also curating mine and welcoming suggestions from friends.

~~~
sehr
_Basically, abstracting the different "streaming" services and really focus on
the quality of the playlist._

bop.fm of YC S13 is doing exactly that. Their UI is way too clunky for me to
think about using it yet, but the idea is solid

~~~
d0m
Hey, I've just tried it, that's great. As you said, UI is very clunky but I
managed to explore and listen to new songs based on songs I already liked
thanks to the playlist of other users.

------
gagaga
Was being acquired by CBS the deathblow to Last.fm? It seems they easily could
have been the social network for music, but they never really innovated beyond
their streaming radio and scrobbler products.

~~~
batiudrami
I find it strange how slow Last.fm is to do anything. I've been a user for 9
years, and almost nothing has changed in that time. You're lucky if you get
one minor feature update in a year - they seem to be incredibly slow moving.

That being said, I'd be very sad if they closed, though I assume a competitor
which could import your Last.fm history would spring up very quickly for those
who only want the data history and not streaming.

------
neves
Here is the best link to transfer you data from Last.fm to Libre.fm:
[http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/09/easily-export-you-last-
fm...](http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/09/easily-export-you-last-fm-scrobbles-
to-libre-fm)

See that they say that the scrobbling service will still work. No FUD here,
but since some applications allow multi-scrobbling now, it is just a tip.

------
driverdan
If Spotify can sell unlimited streaming for $9/m why can't last.fm? I'd rather
pay $9 (or more) to last.fm for the same streaming service along with
scrobbing and their much better discovery engine.

~~~
tunesmith
I think it's because Spotify is debt-financed and can't actually afford to
sell unlimited streaming for $9/m, even though they're doing it. It leads to
listeners feeling entitled to their streaming, and seeing music publishers
(which are often the songwriters themselves) as the bad guys for not accepting
lower royalties.

------
jrochkind1
Is this pretty much the end of last.fm, will they be able to keep paying
subscribers without streaming radio?

------
stuaxo
This is very sad - I don't know how else to listen to a mix of music I like
along with new music throughout the day.

~~~
lcfg
Do you know Pandora? If you can't access the site, you could use a browser
extension called "MediaHint". There's also [http://rd.io/](http://rd.io/).

~~~
stuaxo
I'm not sure that pandora is available in the UK ?

I tried it when it started and wasn't so keen on the recommendations... might
try rd.io

------
buremba
AFAIK, Last.fm has the largest library and listening data on the Internet.
However the only remarkable feature that they offer was the radio and they
will end it. They couldn't use that power in order to create a paid music
streaming service like Spotify or Rdio. I really wonder why they didn't even
try it.

~~~
drawkbox
I agree it is a bit mind-boggling, they have the users who love their service.
I love having my history there and they are the only ones other than iTunes
that know so much about my music tastes.

Bands have even got big on last.fm, MGMT pretty much hit it big on there:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGMT](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGMT)

------
timthimmaiah
I think theres a good opportunity here for people considering getting into the
streaming space. For example, SoundCloud and Youtube allow you to access
streams without tying yourself in with DRM. Artists want to be heard and fans
want to be able to access that content easily. With services out there being
really good for publishing music, a streaming service that allows an artist to
directly engage their fans would be really interesting.

The challenge is creating a community for both the musicians and fans to
interact meaningfully. Musicians want to be free from being lumped in with the
noise and fans want to be explore that content freely. I think for most
streaming services out there, this hasn't really been totally figured out,
although Spotify and SoundCloud are trying to.

~~~
acjohnson55
That's far from an original thought :)

Problem is, it's like a pot of gold in the middle of a minefield. No one seems
to be able to put the whole puzzle together in a way that pleases all the
stakeholders. Just the other day, Twitter bowed out of the space, as well.

------
s0me0ne
:(

Last.fm had a huge library of music, about 100 times more variety than Pandora
has. I discovered tons and tons of bands, that are obscure in other countries.

This is a huge blow to my listening experience and I'm sure will hurt a lot of
obscure bands from being discovered.

~~~
guard-of-terra
Consider vk.com :)

------
riffic
At least scrobbling will still be around.

~~~
gress
Why is that good?

~~~
anoonmoose
On my end? Because I've logged 162,000 tracks since 2004/01/14, and would like
to keep building this database for as long as possible.

Edit: Approximately 11,000 hours worth of listening time has been kept track
of for me thanks to last.fm. About 12% of my life-hours since 2004/01/14 are
accounted for in my last.fm data.

~~~
mattl
Please consider backing up your data.

[http://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/3080/how-can-i-
ex...](http://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/3080/how-can-i-export-track-
scrobble-data-from-last-fm)

Also, my project GNU FM (running at Libre.fm, amongst others) can give you a
local or private scrobble server that can also talk to Last.fm for you.
Indeed, we have federated Last.fm as part of the GNU FM network of federated
scrobblers.

~~~
zrail
The link to GNU FM at the bottom of libre.fm leads to a 404:
[http://foocorp.org/projects/fm/](http://foocorp.org/projects/fm/)

~~~
mattl
Damn. We're moving stuff around between our boxes at the Internet Archive and
our boxes in the UK.

I'll get that fixed.

------
sukuriant
I was using Last.FM the other day and it looks like they were showing off a
player that was in Beta. That player was basically just loading YouTube
videos. Is this going to go away as well?

------
rycho
too bad. last.fm is a great service, and their radio was often better than the
equivalent service on pandora/spotify.

guess its time to go back to grooveshark. i've heard it is fantastic lately.

------
jedanbik
This is bittersweet for me, because I loved their streaming services. I'm
happy that there are so many (non-Pandora) alternatives now to last.fm
streaming, and I'm happy they're keeping their core scrobbling/discovery
functionality intact, but it's disappointing that there have been so many
obstacles for this company to provide all of its excellent services up to this
point. I hope this one day will change.

------
k_bx
Music industry is screwed in that sense and that's understandable move from
LastFM's side.

What I cannot understand from LastFM team is why are they loosing the "Music
Events" market (basically, making mobile app easier to discover / add them). I
think they could make a huge success in that sense to keep up.

------
Derpdiherp
I've been on the alternative last.fm beta streaming player for a while. The
alternative is using their recommendations and scrobbler for youtube hosted
content. This version is not shutting down. It could use a little curation,
but overall I haven't minded the switch so much.

------
midas007
After TT, this sort of shakeout is unsurprising.

Pandora and Spotify are ripe for moves. And Rdio possibly.

------
cseelus
Anyone here that knows a way to export all (my) scrobbles?

~~~
CGamesPlay
Not exactly what you asked for but I spent about 5 minutes searching.

1\. I navigated to [http://last.fm/api](http://last.fm/api)

2\. I immediately found
[http://www.last.fm/api/feeds](http://www.last.fm/api/feeds)

3\. From there I found
[http://ws.audioscrobbler.com/1.0/user/CGamesPlay/recenttrack...](http://ws.audioscrobbler.com/1.0/user/CGamesPlay/recenttracks.rss)

4\. I guessed, and found
[http://ws.audioscrobbler.com/1.0/user/CGamesPlay/recenttrack...](http://ws.audioscrobbler.com/1.0/user/CGamesPlay/recenttracks.xml)

5\. The documentation on
[http://www.last.fm/api/show/user.getRecentTracks](http://www.last.fm/api/show/user.getRecentTracks)
includes info on how to fetch scrobbles during a given time period.

------
AdmiralAsshat
I never used it for anything other than scrobbling anyway.

~~~
mattl
If you're just in it for the scrobbling, you might like GNU FM -- run your own
scrobbling server in private.

------
dpiers
I think this has something to do with Spotify acquiring Echonest; I believe
Echonest powered Last.fm's recommendation and radio functionality.

------
AznHisoka
Consumer services never live on w/o revenue.

------
AbhishekBiswal
which means 8tracks won't work? They have to close it down? Because the last
time I checked, 8tracks used last.fm to stream music and had limitations like
skipping tracks.

------
rocky1138
I loved last.fm back in the day but cancelled my account after CBS bought
them.

------
leccine
I have had faith in Last.fm when they started, thinking they gonna change the
music industry quite a bit. It seems they could not achieve that, but there is
a great progress, there are so many music producers preferring the social
music sites to distribute their work that sooner or later the music industry
we know is going to be dead.

