
Tesla Tells New Taxi, Uber Drivers Not to Use Its Superchargers - fmihaila
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-15/tesla-tells-new-taxi-uber-drivers-not-to-use-its-superchargers
======
marklyon
I must say, the drivers who use their Tesla as an Uber do a hell of a job of
representing the company and making the brand accessible.

I am not fully ready to purchase a car and don’t want to deal with a sales
pitch, but got a great overview of the S and X from two different drivers on
trips. I got to touch and play with the car. I got real feedback from people
who spend far more time in the car than I ever will. Both left me with a
positive impression and, as a result, I’ll likely seriously consider a Tesla
when I am ready to buy a vehicle.

~~~
dingo_bat
Isn't that the case with any car though?

~~~
Strom
Anecdotal but the only Uber/taxi driver who has ever started giving me an
unsolicited tour of their car was a Tesla S owner.

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fmihaila
The wording in the article's first paragraph can almost be read as if the
policy applied to all Tesla cars used commercially, but the actual
announcement is more clear:

> This Policy applies to all Superchargers worldwide and all Tesla vehicles
> purchased, either new or used, whether from Tesla or a third party, after
> December 15, 2017.

[https://www.tesla.com/about/legal?#supercharger-fair-
use](https://www.tesla.com/about/legal?#supercharger-fair-use)

I updated the title accordingly.

~~~
moonka
I understand changing the policy for new sales going forward, but changing it
unilaterally from used sales seems wrong.

~~~
greglindahl
Some Tesla features are written into contracts and some are not. For example,
Tesla is not charging anyone for cellphone service for the car. That's not
written into the contract, but they kinda have to provide it for free: they
need access to vehicle logs for roadside service, and the car needs software
updates for safety reasons.

As an owner, I have absolutely no idea what the contract ever said about
supercharging. I also know that this change doesn't affect me, other than
making it more likely that I can supercharge without waiting.

~~~
Reason077
Until 2016, Tesla vehicles were marketed and sold with "unlimited, free for
life" supercharging, with "life" meaning the lifetime of the car.

Obviously Tesla can change change their terms however they like on new
vehicles that they sell.

However, to now go and retroactively remove/restrict this benefit when
pre-2016 vehicles are resold seems wrong.

~~~
rando444
The people doing this are abusing the system and trying to take their benefit
and sell it for profit.

~~~
wolfgke
This is something nearly every entrepreneur does.

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Harelin
I'm reminded of the Tesloop episode of 'The Pitch' podcast. "Haydn Sonnad
pitches his plan to revolutionize regional transit on the back of Tesla’s
electric charging network."
[https://gimletmedia.com/episode/11-tesloop/](https://gimletmedia.com/episode/11-tesloop/)

~~~
hackcrafter
They called him on this potentially happening too during the pitch.

I hope they bought all the Teslas they need!

~~~
greglindahl
I think the average owner hopes that they didn't.

Although there's a new 40-stall supercharger between Vegas and LA, so Tesloop
probably isn't significantly harming the system at this point.

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kirillzubovsky
Can you still mine BTC from the trunk, so long as you do it solely for your
own purposes?

~~~
Jagat
Yes [https://electrek.co/2017/11/29/tesla-mining-bitcoin-
model-s-...](https://electrek.co/2017/11/29/tesla-mining-bitcoin-model-s-
supercharger-power/)

~~~
greglindahl
Note that an unmodified Tesla allows you to draw 120 watts from the cigarette
lighter, not 2,800 like the claim in the article. Which likely false. Fun
article, I see you clicked on it.

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techsupporter
I really hope Tesla is successful at beefing up its supercharger network. If
the proper phrase is "I have no dog in this hunt," I extend the analogy to
"because I have a cat."

As an occasional driver of a Nissan Leaf in Puget Sound, the (in my
observation) massive uptick in Tesla cars up here has really put a strain on
the relatively tiny DC quick-charge network. Where that car can be in and out
of a CHAdeMO station in 25-35 minutes, Tesla cars seem to occupy it for two
hours. Presumably, and I'm just guessing, this is because a CHAdeMO station is
to a Tesla what a 240V level 2 charger is to a Leaf. If I drive to a
particular Eastside shopping center, I'd better hope I plan to be there for at
least two hours because there's no chance of ever seeing an unoccupied one of
the quick chargers there.

Either way, that's why I hope that either Tesla gets its superchargers more
widely deployed or that some company takes the hint and builds more DC quick
chargers. (Preferably more reliable ones, too, while I'm wishing for ponies.
The one at the Lake City Fred Meyer seems to only have two states, occupied or
broken.)

~~~
CiaranMcNulty
Leaf battery is 30kWh and even the smallest Teslas are double that (60kWh),
most are triple (90kWh until recently was the largest).

Assuming they can all draw the same current it makes sense that teslas are
lingering for 2-3 times longer.

The new 40kWh Leaf 2.0 offers similar range to the 60kWh Tesla, for
comparison. Presumably this is due to weight etc.

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jasonjei
How will Tesla enforce this policy? Tracking vehicle usage data, looking for
lots of short trip patterns? Looking for rideshare decals (drivers would be
wise to use removable decals)? Asking Uber/Lyft to share VIN numbers of
registered cars?

~~~
ams6110
Looking for cars with Uber placards parked at superchargers?

~~~
tytytytytytytyt
Why bother if you have access to vehicle and supercharging data?

~~~
ams6110
Just saying, there are simple ways that don't involve deep statistical
analysis of driving data.

Incidentally this is a reason I'll probably never buy a Tesla. I don't care
for the manufacturer of my car to be logging every trip I take and every
location I visit.

~~~
35bge57dtjku
As if it's not already via your cell phone?

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glenstein
Maybe this is a dumb question, but why not just charge commercial users more
instead?

~~~
xoa
Just my speculation, but from the article and Tesla's announcement, it looks
like this is an availability thing given Tesla's current scale, not a cost
thing per se. Ie., they're not worried that commercial users are consuming too
much electricity or anything like that, rather the limited resource in
question is the actual number of physical spots at a supercharger area, which
is a hard thing to scale quickly. Eventually we can expect that electrical car
infrastructure will become sufficiently ubiquitous that it won't be an issue,
but for now in a still relatively early bootstrapping stage of things I
presume that Tesla is concerned that their customers feel as little anxiety or
charging irritation as possible. Tesla is most interested in raw numbers of
customers (necessary for efficiencies of scale) rather then how hard each
customer is using the car, so they want superchargers build out optimized for
serving the maximum number of customers regardless of price.

You're right that maybe long term they could set up more to serve commercial
capacity on the back of higher commercial prices, but particularly in metro
areas acquiring land, permits, and so forth and building physical
infrastructure isn't quick.

~~~
chairmanwow
Thanks for the great analysis.

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jondwillis
How will they enforce this for rideshare drivers?

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plg
How do they know whether you use it commercially or personally? I think I know
the answer and it's disconcerting.

~~~
nikanj
Send you a friendly letter if miles per week exceed a treshold?

~~~
plg
What if I don’t want them to track me.

~~~
nikanj
It's really hard to fill up your battery, without learning how much juice you
have used. They don't have to track you, they can just follow the amount of
power spent.

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lafar6502
And the reality is back, teaching the maths

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supergirl
“We may also take additional action to protect the availability of
Superchargers for their intended purpose, such as limiting or blocking your
vehicle’s ability to use Supercharger stations.”

say what. is it well known that tesla can brick your car whenever they feel
like it?

~~~
B1FF_PSUVM
They have root and a comm line, they can.

Same with Amazon taking back Kindle books a few years ago.

Also your smartphone. Not yours.

Nowadays "buy" means "rent". Pick a landlord.

~~~
supergirl
somehow it feels way bigger deal if my car is bricked.

~~~
TomMarius
The car will be alright, you just can't charge it for free.

~~~
supergirl
Yeah but the fact that they have the ability to block this means they can
block other things too.

~~~
TomMarius
They would block the output of the charger, not the input of your car.

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speedplane
My hope: Tesla succeeds at making real things and has a stock valuation that
accurately reflects their intrinsic value while providing sufficient support
to fund new ventures.

Is that too much to ask?

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paul7986
An Uber driver can afford a Tesla??

~~~
nobodyshere
They can and they do. I talked to an Uber driver with a model s in Amsterdam.
Leases it with his brother for about €1600 per month and still makes profit.

~~~
t0mas88
There are Tesla Ubers/taxis all over Amsterdam. It's a tax thing, a typical
Mercedes taxi would also cost 1200 / month and then much more in fuel than the
Tesla.

~~~
walshemj
which only works until the govement notices the tax loss ad changes the tax
laws basing a business on a tax loop hole is a high risk stratergy

~~~
nobodyshere
Apparently right now environmentalism is a quite good justification for such
lowered taxes. After all taxis are some of the most actively driven vehicles
in the streets of any country.

~~~
walshemj
Well in the UK it was a tax break for rich middle class people - not going to
help a single parent who buys her electricity on a key system.

~~~
greglindahl
The single parent doesn't get any benefit from less pollution and less global
warming?

~~~
walshemj
No She just pays even more on an already more expensive tariff

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dba7dba
Oh no Bjorn, what is he going to do?

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Shivetya
this kind of retroactive changes to their policies with regards to
supercharges can end up biting them in the butt. it demonstrates that they
consider nearly all promises changeable.

though when the III becomes widely available I fully expect a whole host of
other issues come about and some segments of their user base to demand
exclusions for those they think make unfair use of the chargers.

having been disconnected from a public charger by another EV owner who flat
out told me i did not drive a real EV (its a Volt) I have found there are some
real entitled thinking people driving these days

