
Launch HN: Muzmatch (YC S17) – A place where 400M single Muslims can meet - brod_ie
Hey HN!<p>Ryan and Shaz here. We’re building muzmatch (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;muzmatch.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;muzmatch.com</a>), an app that helps single Muslims meet their partner. We refer to ourselves as a dating app largely for SEO but the reality is our users don’t tend to date, they marry!<p>Marriage is central to many Muslims’ upbringings and ethnic, family, and religious pressures make it a difficult search. The casual Western apps don’t cater for this market and the existing Islam-specific offerings are outdated, ineffective websites.<p>As a practising Muslim, Shaz experienced this problem firsthand. He quit a 10 year career in banking to write and release an MVP back in April ’15. With promising traction, he found me (Ryan) on LinkedIn in the then New Year. It was clear it could be a massive opportunity but I believed it needed to broaden its appeal (then it was as an ultra serious marriage service) and modernise its branding&#x2F;marketing to position it for the new generation: this seemed like a great challenge!<p>We’ve tried to build a product that feels fun and light but respects our demographic’s culture and sensibilities, being halal is essential. Some unique features:<p>- Chaperones: In keeping with Islamic tradition, users can opt to have a “Wali” present in their conversations
- Full privacy: Users can blur their photos and use a nickname to remain anonymous to friends and family
- Fully verified: All manually approved, Selfie, GPS, and SMS verified users
- Relevant: Profile information that matters to many in their search, like Islamic, sect, and ethnicity filters<p>We’re now ~2 years in with 200,000 users and are thrilled to have helped over 6,000 find their partner.<p>We’d love to hear your feedback and answer any questions!
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tboyd47
My wife is a user of this app (she has used to to help her sisters look for
husbands) and so far I think it's a good product. You were wise to include the
wali/chaperone option because that is clearly a key feature for many sisters.

She always mentions how she's puzzled over the "Always pray / sometimes pray /
never pray" options under religious practice. Can you explain your thought
process in coming up with those options?

I want to say that I can see why your app would be a tremendous challenge from
a product development standpoint. What you have as a user base in America are
basically a mix of many different immigrant cultures that each have their own
idea of Islamic traditional marriage customs - Somalian vs. Arab vs. Indopak
vs. West African vs. Cham vs. vs. vs..., as well as clashes between youth &
elder viewpoints, as well as a large indigenous (I use the term loosely -
we're all immigrants to an extent) American Muslim population as well
(something that foreigners usually are shocked to hear - Americans becoming
Muslim?! What!!). Do your research well & don't give up

I ask Allah to guide you to a product that is beneficial for the Muslims - and
also materially successful!

Edit: Also, my email address was used at one point as the "wali" contact but I
stopped getting digest emails from the conversations inexplicably. You may
need tighter QA around that pipeline

~~~
brod_ie
Very happy to hear that and thank you

Absolutely it's a challenge and we're aiming to be as inclusive as possible

Interesting, if you email me (ryan@muzmatch.com) I can look into this further
for you

Thanks again

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tboyd47
Thanks. I think she's taking a break from the searching for now but I'll save
your email address in case it happens again.

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1123581321
Commenting on the wali/chaperone feature: I'm actually surprised that MuzMatch
is the first network I've seen with support for unobtrusive third parties in
conversations. I think there might be a general business opportunity there if
they execute the limited dating application well. CCing/BCCing in a business
setting is a limited communication management tool vulnerable to political
distractions. Idling in chat is unproductive.

~~~
brod_ie
Totally

Don't get me started on email..!

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philsit
Great market. You should look for some help with the copy writing. I had to
read some sentences twice.

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anindha
Dating apps right now feel a little like pre-Facebook social networks. There
is one for every niche.

I wonder why there isn't a platform for single people where dating companies
are just apps on top of the platform. Seems like bad user experience that a
user needs to maintain multiple accounts.

Don't get me wrong, I think this is a great idea but I think the really big
company in this space will be a platform for single people.

~~~
detroitcoder
You mean facebook?

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losteric
Facebook doesn't have open APIs and blatantly opposes non-advertising
extensions

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anindha
Facebook login works fairly well to grab data once.

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JessOpearlo
How many marriages have happened through your app our of interest?

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brod_ie
We've had 600 confirmed weddings and 6,000 couples leave after finding each
other within the app

We think the former is likely higher too as many choose to keep it private

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bogomipz
So if people leave after finding each other but don't get married wouldn't
that technically be dating?

~~~
brod_ie
We see dating to be non-exclusive where as these 6,000 couples are in
committed relationships

~~~
bogomipz
So if people use your app until they agree to be in an exclusive relationship
aren't they "dating" until then?

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ashayh
The HN description says: "users can opt to have a “Wali” present in their
conversations "

The site says: _Women_ can include a guardian in their conversation for extra
peace of mind.

Which is correct?

~~~
brod_ie
The chaperone feature is coming to both genders in the next major version.
Historically it was just for women as we used to refer to it as a "Wali" which
Islamically is only for this sex

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the_common_man
Can you explain, how you make money? In the play store there are some bad
reviews about in-app purchases. What is your pricing and what do you price
for? Thanks

~~~
brod_ie
We monetised through a mix of In App Purchases for products like Extra Swipes
(see more profiles daily) and Instant Match (guaranteed to be seen to a
soecified user) as well as a Premium subscription offering that includes some
supplemental features as well as bundles of the IAPs. People don't always like
the realities of the app economy but in truth we didn't monetise anything that
was previously free. The free product is still as functional as ever. We
modify pricing from time to time, you can see these in-app and in-stores,
thanks.

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biztos
This looks like a really good idea. I wonder if there is a wider opportunity
beyond the Muslim-specific context for some kind of Anti-Tinder.

Out of curiosity, how does "all profiles being verified manually" scale?

~~~
brod_ie
Thank you

It definitely keeps us busy 24/7 but we've built some internal tools to make
this as quick and efficient as possible

We're definitely nearing the point of needing a dedicated Community Manager to
take over this function

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navalsaini
Pretty cool guys. I can see from the play store comments that your users love
the app. Best wishes.

Whats 'Halal, free, and fun'?

Whats you tech stack like?

~~~
brod_ie
Thank you!

Halal being "ok" Islamically, free as the old competition are very expensive,
and fun so the process sounds noncommittal (many are put off by fearing being
rushed into something they're not necessarily ready for)

It's a LEMP stack heavily utilising Memcached for performance and XMPP for
real time functionality

~~~
frik
How have you initially launched it so hat it got traction? Sending mails to
your friends? at an event? posting in FB group?

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teej
I'm annoyed that you came in, advertised your product, took up front page
space, and didn't bother to answer any of the interesting questions. I feel as
if you are taking from the community and not giving back.

~~~
brod_ie
Sorry to hear that, I thought I chimed in on most topics! All hands on deck
for demo day, having another read through now

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marrone12
Your hero div has some weird overlap issues in smaller screen heights
[http://imgur.com/a/yxyHr](http://imgur.com/a/yxyHr)

~~~
brod_ie
Thank you for bringing this to my attention, I never foresaw such a small
vertical to horizontal ratio screen!

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praneshp
Nice service!

Is the "Wali" a human being? If yes, how will that scale?

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newscracker
It'll be a verified email address that the member selects, to whom the chat
transcripts are sent. [1]

> How do I include a Wali or Guardian on muzmatch?

> We want muzmatch to be a Halal and safe place for all our members to find
> their partner.

> Women can enter a Wali or Guardian's email address in Menu → Settings to
> give them extra peace of mind.

> Once their email has been confirmed they’ll receive weekly transcripts of
> your Chats on muzmatch.

[1]: [https://muzmatch.com/faq/how-do-i-include-a-wali-or-
guardian...](https://muzmatch.com/faq/how-do-i-include-a-wali-or-guardian-on-
muzmatch)

~~~
brod_ie
Thanks, I love seeing the FAQ being used! You can probably tell this is our
own custom tool, we want to build more of a community around product Q&A and
support in the future.

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MarkMc
Interesting that you seem to have gained traction even though your competition
has been around for 10 years or more.

Good luck!

~~~
brod_ie
Thank you! The older the company (typically) the harder and slower it is to
innovate, we think they've completely missed to opportunities smartphone
present.

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nrclark
How does the Wali part work? do you employ conversation reviewers? Does one
dater recruit an outside person?

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funwithjustin
Who did your icon illustrations? They're great!

~~~
brod_ie
Thanks, I do all of our design but I can't take credit for these other than
some colouring and minor alterations, they're from a generic set I bought a
while back

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botrot
In terms of gender, I am fluid. Does muzmatch have plans to support additional
gender options? The current format only allows "Male" or "Female".

~~~
leesalminen
Does the religion allow for this? Not sure that it does.

~~~
botrot
I don't think this is the place for a discussion on theology. Might I suggest
a slightly different question: do gay and gender fluid Muslims exist? The
answer is clearly yes. One need not go far to see stories of extremist groups
throwing them off of buildings for being so.

So, this leads to my original question of whether the product will enable
this. I'd hate (probably too strong of a word) to see a product get awesome HN
coverage that actively works against ('discriminate') LGBTQX folks.

@abbasiddartha > beat me to it. I agree.

~~~
xupybd
They are serving a narrow niche. I don't think you can term that
discrimination.

Perhaps if You see a business opportunity you could create an app that serves
the Muslim LGBTQX community?

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botrot
If I create an app that delivers cup cakes and cakes to people having weddings
- but only to people who have "straight" marriages, would this be a "narrow
niche" and "business opportunity", or would I have the shit sued out of me?

~~~
xupybd
I don't think that is a fair comparison.

A dating service serving a niche can help people pre-filter their matches. For
example someone of higher education or earning might want to only find people
of similar education. It would be discrimination to prevent people of lower
education from purchasing from a cup cake delivery service. But not to filter
them from a dating service.

As I understand it there are dating services that specialise in matching non
straight couples. Is this discrimination against straight people?

~~~
botrot
You can have a dating app which uses filters and so forth to find your mate.
RESTRICTING access (as opposed to a search filter) based on race, gender, etc.
is pretty damn iffy. Especially when the app is owned by a company. Has this
been tested in the courts yet? How is a digital "filter" (in the way that you
are using the word) any different than a physical "filter" beginning at the
entrance of my cake shop?

In any case, brod_ie has said "We're supportive of this and is definitely on
our radar reply", so I'm sufficiently satisfied! ^.^

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smegel
> Chaperones: In keeping with Islamic tradition, users can opt to have a
> “Wali” present in their conversations

Sounds like a pretty unique feature in the world of chat apps. Were there any
technical difficulties in implementing that?

~~~
brod_ie
Great question. Not particularly as the current Chaperone system works as an
email digest of conversations sent to your confirmed guardian. In the future
we want to explore adding full muzmatch account functionality here so the
chaperone can sign into the native apps and view conversations in a more
realtime manor.

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frik
Would be interested in your relaunch 2015+ - how have it got traction? Was it
rebranding? How have you got the initial traction? Sending emails to closed
real world community? Postings on FB?

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Cenk
Link for the lazy: [https://muzmatch.com](https://muzmatch.com)

~~~
dang
Added above. Thanks!

