
Salesforce.com tells its customers to stop selling assault-style rifles - cVwEq
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/05/30/tech-giant-brings-software-gun-fight
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challenger22
The question to me is whether salesforce executives really think they can stop
their customers from selling guns, or whether they are just virtue signalling.

The reality is that retailers that sell guns will continue to sell guns, and
salesforce will lose customers as a self-inflicted wound.

The argument "if you don't do it, someone else will" isn't valid here, because
CRM software is not a necessary economic input for selling guns.

~~~
toomuchtodo
> The question to me is whether salesforce executives really think they can
> stop their customers from selling guns, or whether they are just virtue
> signalling.

If Facebook and others can kick white supremacists off their platforms, why
can't Salesforce kick gun sellers off of theirs?

> because CRM software is not a necessary economic input for selling guns.

So what's the problem if Salesforce isn't necessary to sell this class of
firearm?

~~~
challenger22
If you accept the propositions from my first post, and suppose that the owners
of Salesforce value this virtue signalling more than they value the profit
they lose, there is no problem for them. But I would also argue that this
would be silly ordering of preferences, especially considering that it is a
publicly owned company.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Being publicly owned does not require you maximize profits. Patagonia donated
its $10 million in tax savings from US tax reform to fighting climate change.
Is that virtue signaling? Yes! Is that also donating funds you weren't
required to to a cause your business values? Yes!

~~~
VladimirIvanov
I agree with you but I have point out that Pategonia is a private company

~~~
toomuchtodo
Great point that they're private (I missed that). Here's an older Fortune
article about charity at public companies.

[http://fortune.com/2016/06/22/fortune-500-most-charitable-
co...](http://fortune.com/2016/06/22/fortune-500-most-charitable-companies/)
(The 20 Most Generous Companies of the Fortune 500)

> In total, the 20 most generous companies donated $3.5 billion in cash in
> 2015.

Simply because you're public doesn't mean every dollar is being sent to either
shareholders or directly reinvested into the business. Nor does it mean you
are legally required to take actions to maximize shareholder value.

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rogerkirkness
I've been wondering when deplatforming would hit enterprise software
companies. No longer shall I wonder.

~~~
anonuser123456
"But we're the good guys."

~~~
toomuchtodo
There were never any good guys. Just different guys.

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kyleblarson
The journalistic ignorance around firearms is staggering: 'assault-style
rifles', 'fully semi automatic', etc etc.

~~~
CydeWeys
What's wrong with "assault-style"? It correctly describes rifles that are
designed to look like their actually select-fire military assault rifle
counterparts, but that are just semi-automatic themselves. It reflects that
what's being talked about is the aesthetics, nothing more.

What name would you recommend instead?

~~~
avn2109
Not the OP, but obligatory and very relevant Popehat:

    
    
        Me: I don't want to take away dog owners' rights. But we need to do something about Rottweilers.
        You: So what do you propose?
    
        Me: I just think that there should be some sort of training or restrictions on owning an attack dog.
        You: Wait. What's an "attack dog?"
    
        Me: You know what I mean. Like military dogs.
        You: Huh? Rottweilers aren't military dogs. In fact "military dogs" isn't a thing. You mean like German Shepherds?
    
        Me: Don't be ridiculous. Nobody's trying to take away your German Shepherds. But civilians shouldn't own fighting dogs.
        You: I have no idea what dogs you're talking about now.
    
        Me: You're being both picky and obtuse. You know I mean hounds.
        You: What the fuck.
    
        Me: OK, maybe not actually ::air quotes:: hounds ::air quotes::. Maybe I have the terminology wrong. I'm not obsessed with vicious dogs like you. But we can identify kinds of dogs that civilians just don't need to own.
        You: Can we?
    

From [https://www.popehat.com/2015/12/07/talking-productively-
abou...](https://www.popehat.com/2015/12/07/talking-productively-about-guns/)

~~~
Crosseye_Jack
As someone who had a Rottweiler called Psycho (named after the nickname of a
football player from the local team) as a child the most harm that dog would
do to you was sit on you or lick you to death. (I have a vivid memory of lying
on the carpet in the living room playing Mario on the NES on a Saturday
morning and the dog coming over and falling asleep on me and I was pretty much
stuck, but who cared I had Saturday morning Mario to play on the big TV in the
living room.)

We used to have a large front garden and a tiny back garden so as kids we
would play in the front garden and obv play with the dog. I remember atleast 4
times the authorities of one form or another were sent out to pay us a visit
simply because we were playing with such a vicious animal.

As kids we were more of a threat to that dog than it was to us as we sit on
the dogs back and get rides up and down the garden.

He was an awesome dog :-)

But in the UK we do have a few banned dog breeds -
[https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/banned-
dogs](https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/banned-dogs) \- but personally I
believe it’s down to the treatment of the animal from a puppy that matters, a
well cared for and socialised pit bull terriers can be a loving family dog.
Though I can not say I’ve had any interaction with any of the other dogs on
the banned breed list.

~~~
thinkingemote
I thought that so called dangerous dogs were almost always safe in the family,
but any danger came with encounters with outsiders like your out of state
aunty brings her new three year old to visit and the kid pulls its tail.

~~~
Crosseye_Jack
We would always brings friends home as kids and as I would walk the dog and
take it to the local park I would often let the dog off the lead and allow it
to run in the dog park (around the age of 11 iirc was when I would take the
dog out by myself) and personally never had any issues.

Though that is just one story from one person on-line. Take it as you will.
Esp compared to the horror stories you see in the news. I just personally
believe that Rottweilers got a bad rap because a few people abused them
because they were big dogs.

EDIT: What I mean is as a kid I just treated him as my dog, just like anyone
would treat their Labrador or Golders retriever. I didn’t think I needed to
worry about warning friends or anything when they came over unexpected. So we
never worried about the “aunt from out of state with her 3 year old pulling
the tail” as kids as unknown kids would be over all the time anyway.

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thrower123
Salesforce is really not a good enough product to be throwing it's weight
around like that. It's expensive, it's clunky, and there are plenty of
alternatives.

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
Do the alternatives sell nearly as well? I couldn't name a single one, but
pretty much everyone knows the Salesforce name.

~~~
thrower123
I am not really sure, but we switched to Microsoft Dynamics a while back
because Salesforce was overly expensive, and we got some steep discounts from
Microsoft through a partner program. I don't use it much, but our sales people
seem to have adjusted pretty easily; it was a bit of a pain to extract, clean,
and import all the data that used to be in Salesforce, but far from
insurmountable.

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finnthehuman
It’s a good thing Northern California has perfect morals, otherwise companies
based there forcibly exporting them to the rest of the world might have some
downsides.

~~~
armenarmen
The world truly is fortunate to have NorCal as its shining city on the hill!

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Cyndre
I am wondering how this will impact gun fanatics that don't sell guns. I can
easily see this costing Salesforce more then just companies that sell guns.
Companies owned by pro gun rights people will likely leave as well.

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algaeontoast
I guess international arms dealers now have an avenue to enter civilian
markets haha.

The arrogance of these companies to impart what Americans can and cannot do is
stunning.

