
Canonical reveals Ubuntu for Android - mrsebastian
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/119031-canonical-reveals-ubuntu-for-android
======
thechut
"The other problem is that while Canonical is pushing the build to hardware
manufacturers and mobile carriers, it has no plans to release it to the
general public for independent development."

It seems to crazy to me that Canonical is going to lock down this software and
not let people try to install on their own devices for their own purposes.

While I couldn't be more excited by the idea of this project, that article
made me very concerned about the future of Canonical and where they are going
as a company.

~~~
bryanlarsen
Are they planning on locking it down after release? If so, they will really
piss off the open source ecosystem.

However, controlling the release of pre-alpha software that doesn't work very
well on existing hardware seems like a very good idea to me.

~~~
lambda
From <http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android/commercial-info>:

> Ubuntu for Android components produced by Canonical are generally licensed
> under the GPLv3 or LGPLv3. Alternative licensing is available on the proviso
> that Canonical retains discretionary rights to include work done in the
> public versions of Unity and Ubuntu.

It sounds like this will be released as free software, and the GPLv3 pretty
much forbids locking it down.

I think that what they are saying in the article is that they won't be
releasing the code until they have a hardware partner; so you can't download
it now and try to hack it to work with CyanogenMod or something. But once they
have a hardware partner, the code will all be released under the GPLv3.

~~~
salem
That understandable, but it's also a bit of a shame, since there's hardware
out there that might be able to be hacked to run this already, the Motorola
Atrix.

~~~
bryanlarsen
According to [http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/21/2812424/ubuntu-for-
android...](http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/21/2812424/ubuntu-for-android-
hands-on) it sounds like there are a couple of large usability issues with the
Atrix 2.

------
aberkowitz
Canonical has done many questionable things recently, but innovation like this
is why they are going to succeed commercially.

------
gpmcadam
A request for future posts from extremetech.com (and essentially all other
"news" services like this).

 _Please_ look for a 'Print' view, which displays the content on 1 page and in
a much better format:

[http://www.extremetech.com/computing/119031-canonical-
reveal...](http://www.extremetech.com/computing/119031-canonical-reveals-
ubuntu-for-android?print)

------
benologist
This started off sounding really cool, and then on page 2 they reveal pretty
much nobody's going to have access to it.

~~~
RyanMcGreal
"Realistically, Ubuntu for Android has been developed for future handsets that
are going to have the horsepower to push everything the software is going to
require."

So, like, six months from now.

------
webjprgm
If the phone could access remote computing resources then this would be
awesome. (I could show you stuff I've written years ago saying you should
"dock" a phone, wirelessly, to keyboard and monitor and have it also connect
to external CPUs and GPUs. I'm sure other people have had the same idea.)

I'm just really skeptical that a smartphone has enough computing power for me
to want to use it as my desktop. That's why Apple has gone the route of
iCloud; you have your content already synched to your desktop but you keep the
interfaces and hardware separate. This is a move that won't be viable until
hardware catches up. Or it will be like the original MacBookAir: underpowered
but good for certain mobile business users.

~~~
slowpoke
As much as I loathe anything cloud related, I feel the need to mention that
Ubuntu has their own cloud service called Ubuntu One, which can sync files[1].
So the possibility _is_ there.

If they are successful with Ubuntu Android, it might mean more people
switching to Ubuntu on their desktop, too, which would be a win in the long
term.

[1] This is a Nautilus plugin as far as I remember, so it works on any
computer where you can install it.

------
th0ma5
There does exist an APK on the market for some devices that seems to contain
an Ubuntu like userspace. It seems handy for phones with HDMI out or docking
stations. It requires things to be rebuilt for Arm, but many things seem to be
available.

------
ori_b
_"Canonical has unveiled that its goal is to narrow down the amount of devices
that you carry to just one that will provide the same functionality of all
three items mentioned above."_

This isn't a software problem. Moreover, this isn't a solvable hardware
problem -- For something to replace a laptop, it had better have a physical
keyboard to type comfortably on.

For it to fill the role of a tablet, it had better be light, easy to use with
one hand, and with a big enough screen to consume content on.

For it to fill the role of a phone, it had better be small enough to fit into
my pocket and easy to hold up to my head.

These requirements are not compatible.

~~~
slowpoke
The basic solution might be to "disconnect" the hardware from the input
paradigm. Your device would be a portable computer that you can plug into
different input devices: a phone, a tablet, or a docking station with screen
and keyboard at home. The OS switches between input paradigms (switches! Not
provide a shitty one-size-fits-all solution, like Metro) based on what input
device you are using. If it's implemented properly[1], it would be highly
modular, so you could decide what sorts of input paradigms you want to have
installed, and have different "Input Environments" (sort of like a Desktop
Environment, but specific to an input paradigm) or roll your own using
components (just like creating your own DE with a WM and additional
programs)[1].

With innovative goodies such as the Raspberry Pi demonstrating that you can
have pretty usable (as in hardware-specs) general-purpose computer the size of
a credit card (and things are only going to get smaller in the future), I
don't think this is a far-fetched vision.

[1] In case you haven't guessed it already, this requires a free (as in
speech) computing environment, not shitty, locked-down pseudo-computers like
many (most?) smartphones and tablets these days.

~~~
ori_b
We're already well on the road to disconnecting it in an even more fundamental
sense. Our computing is moving to "the cloud", and our local systems are
turning into windows into this cloud.

The backend is already being disconnected from the UI used to manipulate it.

------
donniezazen
This is a very neat idea. I highly doubt that Google will accept it over
ChromeOS. In my opinion this will get Ubuntu to get crazy popularity if they
manage to make it as an app for non-rooted devices.

------
jonursenbach
Anyone else feel like Canonical is fragmenting themselves into oblivion?

~~~
bryanlarsen
I feel that Canonical is making the same mistake Apple did. Taking engineers
off of OS X Leopard and putting them to work on iOS was such a bad move.

In Canonical's case, it's an even worse idea, isn't it? Why spend engineer
resources targeting the tiny Android market rather than the huge desktop Linux
market?

Obvious sarcasm aside, I'm really happy to see Ubuntu innovating here. If it
was commercially available, I'd be plunking my money down now. But I'm already
a Linux user so I'm an easy sale. Kudos to Ubuntu to try and market to people
other than those like me.

~~~
jonursenbach
Except that everybody always wanted an iOS device, so it was obviously an easy
sell for Apple to do that.

Trying to sell people an Android phone that happens to have Ubuntu on it? How
are you going to reach consumers? Are you going to get a carrier on board?
Good fucking luck.

~~~
bryanlarsen
In 2005 & 2006 nobody wanted an iOS device because nobody outside of Apple
knew about it. If investors had heard that Steve Jobs was stealing engineers
from OS X to work on a phone they would have been slammed in the press for
cannibalizing their core products to enter a market with a lot of well
capitalized competitors.

~~~
2muchcoffeeman
And look how well that turned out! Apple made the right moves at the right
time. Some of it was probably luck. But canabalising their Mac and iPod
markets has made Apple one of the most successful companies ever.

Not sure Shuttleworth has a similar insight on the state of mobile computing
but if they can create a great product, maybe they have something.

------
dave1010uk
Direct link to Canonical's announcement:
<http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android>

HN discussion: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3617238>

------
klez
What about input devices? Via bluetooth? Or am I missing something that is in
the dockstation?

~~~
bryanlarsen
It's being demoed on the Atrix 2 lapdock. Google for that to get an idea of
the sort of target Ubuntu has in mind.

------
laconian
Wouldn't it be cool to use a projected laser keyboard and virtual trackpad for
input?

~~~
Tobu
Any user feedback on what the typing experience feels like tapping on a table
with synthetic clicks as feedback? How does one hold modifier keys?

------
vijayanands
Weirdly enough, wrote about something like this, back in 2008 :
[http://www.vijayanand.name/2008/10/the-future-of-living-
how-...](http://www.vijayanand.name/2008/10/the-future-of-living-how-3g-could-
help/)

It was still a very Nokia Centric world, back then.

------
wavephorm
Wonderful, so Desktop Linux, on a phone. Because Desktop Linux, on a desktop
PC worked so flawlessly, and Ubuntu was so user-friendly that they needed to
replicate that awesome experience to mobile devices. (sarcasm intended)

I would be much, more interested in a raw, low-level Linux platform, upon
which others can build a fresh new touchscreen-oriented UI, minus all the
KDE/Gnome cruft. I really don't want my phone looking like a clone of Windows
3.1.

~~~
ChrisNorstrom
Not sure why you got downvoted, but I agree. I've been trying out each new
upgrade of Ubuntu for about 6 years now. They've come a LONG way. Say what you
want about Ubuntu but it has improved ten fold since the beginning.

 _I apologize in advanced for my negative, probably incorrect, generalized
opinions about linux and perticularly Ubuntu but I just can't help but feel
this way._

After all these years of messing with linux, I think I finally understand what
linux is all about. Behind the sugar coated philanthropic message of "free
software (with bad UIs) for the world" to give the open source community a
feeling of vision and humane pride, it's really about giving people the
freedom to dick around with their computers. That's it. That's all. It's an OS
for people who like to dick around and try new things and feel like they've
customized their own machine and their own experience. Same as the custom PC
crowd (me). That's just the way we are.

As soon as Canonical tried to actually fulfill linux's goal of bringing Ubuntu
to the masses the older linux community got upset. I too got upset. Where the
hell where my options?! Almost as if to say, "how dare you design for those
heathens and not us hard core tweakers". Now it's getting apparent that Mark
Shuttleworth has Steve Jobs envy but the guy is trying to take linux in the
right direction. Easy to use, easy to maintain, and well designed.
Unfortunately the majority of open source software (software without a company
or sponsor that oversees developement) does NOT have this same goal. For them
it's about being free and wild and raw and "who cares about the shitty UI,
just use commands" So what we're going to end up with is a well designed OS
with atrocious software. Thus an experience with a split personality.

Also, in the world of linux, success is not measured by "market share", it's
measured by "ability to dick around with the code" aka freedom. Installing
what you want, using it how you want, whenever and however you want. Which is
the exact opposite of what 95% of what consumers want, for things to just
"work". So I think Ubuntu on phones is going to be really awesome for people
like me who like to just mess around and try out new things, but I honestly
don't see it going anywhere. 10 years from now Ubuntu on the phone is going to
be like Ubuntu on the desktop: It's just there and you know, maybe 1 or 2
people, that actually use it.

That's my $0.02. Sorry for being an ass but as an average person that's the
vibe I'm getting from Ubuntu and Linux (Gos, Debian, Mint) in general.

------
makmanalp
Slightly unrelated but why is there a dock in the images:

<http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android>

It's 2012 you guys, I think we can do away with cables now.

~~~
pixdamix
Maybe because pushing 1080p @ 60fps, while running a dual Android/Ubuntu stack
while connected to a 3G or WiFi network might be a burden on the battery.

------
bwarp
I think Canonical are going to die if they keep on the crack pipe as much as
recently. This is a fine example of it. Customers and users are dropping like
flies already. I don't know anyone now who hasn't bailed on then and gone with
mint, Debian or centos.

~~~
notatoad
>I don't know anyone now who hasn't bailed on then and gone with mint, Debian
or centos.

you must not know many people. ubuntu's numbers certainly haven't shrunk over
the last few years.

~~~
damncabbage
I don't know what Ubuntu's numbers are doing, but you need to consider the
rate of growth as well.

Take the following hypothetical situation:

    
    
      * Say, every month, a small percentage of the userbase stop
        using Ubuntu (and switch to Mint or OS X, for example).
      * Say the rate of growth is shrinking.
    

You've already hit the inflection point: if that trend continues, your
userbase _will_ start shrinking, you'll wonder why everyone's leaving all of a
sudden, and you're suddenly in a position of trying to pull the project out of
a nosedive you didn't realise you were in.

~~~
notatoad
[http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/02/stats-show-ubuntu-not-
los...](http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/02/stats-show-ubuntu-not-losing-
ground-to-linux-mint/)

Ubuntu's user base is growing faster than mint's is. And I don't even want to
mention how ridiculous the concept of using hypothetical statistics to defend
your point is.

~~~
damncabbage
I'm not saying that Ubuntu _is_ losing users or growing any slower than any
other distribution.

I'm just saying that "is not currently losing users" is not the only statistic
that should be taken into consideration.

(I'm not defending anyone's point; that was my first post in the thread. I'm
also a relatively happy Ubuntu user.)

