
I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Packages for Amazon - toufiqbarhamov
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/12/what-its-like-to-deliver-packages-for-amazon/578986/
======
skannamalai
I was finished HS seventeen years ago, about an hour northeast of where the
author was delivering packages. I distinctly remember an English teacher,
trying to get us excited about the possibilities of longform print journalism,
breathlessly telling the class how some of the best writers in the world work
for Sports Illustrated, and that they make "good money."

I feel a sense of loss when the "biodiversity" of what appear to be
financially viable careers is declining.

~~~
Waterluvian
I love a good read as much as I love a good YouTube series. I'm not sure
biodiversity is going down. I think it's just becoming (discipline +
computers).

The fact that a lot of people are making really good money doing artistic
endeavors on the internet suggests that those endeavours are still valued.

I wonder if maybe we don't need as many artists because they reach a global
audience now with less friction than ever. Anecdotally: I never would have
subscribed to a sports magazine. I'm not into sports. But SBNation's YouTube
series on weird sports history has me hooked.

~~~
Meph504
The volume of people making money, and the amount of money made by people
doing artistic endeavors on the internet, when compared to decades past is
troublingly lower.

I'm not sure what can be done, but I see an ever increasing number of people
loosing benefits from, or loosing their careers entirely.

This isn't all caused by tech, but also by a change in the social contract
between companies and and their employees. The idea of you working hard for a
company your whole life, and even if your didn't make great pay, you were
secure in the idea that you would be taken care of and have a place to work
until you got your send off party and a gold watch.

When comparing what was to what is, from the perspective of security, safety,
and prosperity of the worker, YouTube is barely on par with a freelance gig.

And I fear that if our country doesn't address these sort of issue very soon,
we are going to see suffering in the elderly not known in our country for the
last century.

~~~
rlonn
>The volume of people making money, and the amount of money made by people
doing artistic endeavors on the internet, when compared to decades past is
troublingly lower.

Would love to see some actual numbers here. My guess would've been that more
people are making in aggregate more money off artistic endeavors on the
internet, than in past decades. Look at the music industry, whose total value
peaked and started falling, but is now back and has exceeded earlier peak, due
to internet streaming. Diversity, meanwhile, seem bigger than ever. In the
80's you had a few mega stars raking in all the money whileas now there are
millions of small producers each making small amounts. I don't buy this
"troubled times" theory. The only trouble is the fact that a lot of former
producers are getting replaced, but this is encouraging because if we're in
the middle of a shift and the total market isn't shrinking it probably means
there is more growth ahead.

~~~
microtherion
> Look at the music industry, whose total value peaked and started falling,
> but is now back and has exceeded earlier peak

Would you mind citing your data for this? What I've seen suggests the
opposite:

[https://www.ifpi.org/news/IFPI-GLOBAL-MUSIC-
REPORT-2018](https://www.ifpi.org/news/IFPI-GLOBAL-MUSIC-REPORT-2018)

"Despite the recent uplift, revenues for 2017 are still only 68.4% of the
market's peak in 1999."

And as far as I can tell, that 68.4% is based on nominal revenue. Inflation
adjusted it works out to 2017 revenues being less than 47% of 1999 revenues,
if I calculated correctly.

~~~
Nullabillity
IFPI represents record labels, not musicians.

------
carbonatedmilk
I used to fill in gaps between consulting work with delivering people's food
on my bicycle. I loved it too - It had a gamified feeling to it, and was like
getting paid to go to the gym. Uber gives you an estimate when you start the
trip, and I enjoyed pushing myself a little bit on the hills to try and 'beat
the average'. The pay was miserable, between $10-15/hr ($7-10 USD) depending
on whether you got 2 or 3 deliveries in the hour, but in a bike friendly city
it was quite a fun way to spend an hour or two getting some serious exercise.

------
CydeWeys
I loved this line in particular:

> I’m an Aries, so it stands to reason that I’m partial to Dodge Ram
> ProMasters.

It's a shame that there isn't a way for him to continue making a living on his
writing talent.

~~~
danso
He likely got paid as a freelancer for producing this piece for The Atlantic.

~~~
Phlarp
Freelance journalism can hardly be considered "making a living"

~~~
stickfigure
Is that true? I'm genuinely curious.

I really enjoyed this article. It's like "diaries of a call girl" for 50+
overqualified-but-underemployed men. Crossed with a Kevin Smith film.

If there was a github-style subscribe button that would notify me of his next
article I would definitely click it. No idea if my "impression" contributed to
the atlantic's bottom line (and presumably his paycheck) but I guarantee you
I've never helped the bottom line of SI.

~~~
vwcx
It wouldn’t be surprising if the author made $500 or less from this piece.

------
WheelsAtLarge
Magnificent writing, painful story, in a real way this article articulates, in
a small way, what it's like for the foundation of your career to slip away.
I'm sure there are plenty of other types of careers this same article can be
written for.

What I'm afraid of is that many of us reading this article now will have a
similar story 20 or so years from now. Ouch!

------
hirundo
I'm afraid you've moved from one fading career path to another. In ten years
that delivery van will be an autonomous drone carrier. A far smaller crew of
humans will be just for exceptional stuff, like oversized packages and
updating map details. Your wife's career in law seems much more robust.

~~~
verisimilidude
This guy was previously among journalism's elite. He interviewed five U.S.
presidents! Wouldn't you consider that _robust_?

Between the lines, his whole point is that no career is robust these days.

~~~
crankylinuxuser
I'm pretty sure we're in the middle of the biggest revolution this world's
ever seen. And being in the middle of it is blinding us to it.

These jobs, these people slipping through the cracks are the transition to
something I hope is better. But it's that in-between time, that many many
people will suffer very badly.

~~~
geezerjay
> These jobs, these people slipping through the cracks are the transition to
> something I hope is better.

Some people may be slipping through the cracks, but others are doing far
better than anyone could ever imagine. Crises do stir stuff up, but in this
case the net result to society is far too positive to imply it's a bad thing.

~~~
Apocryphon
Thr question is, how many others?

~~~
lotsofpulp
It’s crazy how much data shows diverging lines in society between the haves
and have nots, yet people are claiming all is well. It would be one thing if
the whole pie was getting bigger and everyone’s share was increasing, but all
the data indicates the gains are going to fewer and fewer, which makes sense
since automation and globalization disproportionately benefit the owners of
capital.

------
dmourati
You can tell from his writing that he has good things in his future. I applaud
the tone and the honesty. Merry Christmas.

------
RickJWagner
Wow interviewed 5 US Presidents, now he's slinging packages for Amazon.

That really is an interesting career progression.

~~~
gist
> Wow interviewed 5 US Presidents

I think that is something that you do that you fool yourself into thinking is
important in some way, as if you yourself are important, when you are really
not. You are a tool getting a job done for your company. Maybe the best tool
(after all you got the gig) but still a tool just the same. The Presidents
don't care about you and aren't your friend or you peer.

Sure it's something that you can relate that you did to impress people you
know and good for career or reputation (job wise). But the truth is to that
those people you have interviewed would almost certainly not take your call or
be your friend anymore than most of us would end up befriending the person who
takes our luggage to our hotel room. (Not saying that couldn't or hasn't or
doesn't happen but very unlikely except as an outlier).

I will tell you something that I have learned about self important writers.
Try getting them to even return your email unless you have something that they
need. Meaning they are all on top of you when they need you for a story. But
once that story is done (unless they plan another one) you will have a hard
time getting any reply from them. They tend to be (by the nature of what they
do) 'users' the same way many salesman are users (to get the sale). They make
you feel as if they care about you personally when they do not really care at
all.

Contrast this with many people here on HN who I am sure would be pretty likely
to reply to a personal question or issue if you wrote and asked for some type
of help. Go try that with a writer for a major (and formerly important)
magazine or newspaper.

~~~
JeremyReimer
I think this attitude might have something to do with the volume of emails
that people receive. I'm a minor writer for Ars Technica and I always answer
every email I get about my articles (or about anything) but then again I only
get about five emails per month. It's easy and fun to do at that volume. If I
got 500 or 5000, this would be a different story.

~~~
kkarakk
isn't this because our culture has shifted to "tweeting at" authors directly
and twitter is currently in the shithole?

most of the time i click the twitter link, see that the author is having a
meltdown/delightgasm about some completely unrelated thing and close the app
on my phone in disgust

i almost never see any "discussions" about even recently published articles on
an authors public social media

if i don't see a twitter on the author profile i'm not gonna bother mailing
the person on an email id that probably never gets checked

------
peteretep
Ironically I bet Amazon sell exactly the kind of porta-potty device that would
make his journeys more comfortable

------
mschuster91
Jeez. This article really highlights the abuses on which Amazon (and other
similar jobs, think Uber, Foodora or whatever) are _built upon_ :

> feigning nonchalance as I handed a cup of urine to the attendant and bid him
> good day.

I consider mandatory drug tests a massive invasion of privacy that only
persists because workers don't (really) have the ability to shop around
employers who don't do them. Besides they're only screening for illegal drugs
but don't care about the really dangerous things (a lack of decent sleep being
the worst).

> An honest recounting of this job must include my sometimes frantic searches
> for a place to answer nature’s call.

This is _dehumanizing_. This could be easily solved by requiring employers to
provide e.g. these tiny camping toilets in the van - they don't take up much
space (one parcel, maybe), and a "seat" can easily be fitted by rearranging a
couple of rack plates without losing storage space.

But the biggest issue is this:

> Before it was taken out of service for repairs, I was often stuck with a
> ProMaster that had issues: Side-view mirrors spiderwebbed; the left mirror
> held fast to the body of the van by several layers of shrink-wrap. The
> headlights didn’t work unless flicked into “bright” mode, which means that
> when delivering after dark, I was blinding and infuriating oncoming
> motorists. [...] That’s when I heard a thud-thud-thud from the area of my
> right front tire, which was so old and bald that it had begun to shed four-
> and five-inch strips of rubber, which were thumping against the wheel well.

This is illegal and dangerous, both for the driver and for all people, animals
and property around them.

All the "cost cutting" of Amazon doing deliveries instead of UPS, Fedex etc.
does have to come from somewhere, and here it is done on public safety. I'm
fine with competition, but not if public safety and worker/human rights are
sacrificed for short-term profits for Jeff Bezos.

And what's the biggest issue: as a consumer, you do not have a choice when it
comes to shipping - I'd gladly pay 1€ more a package if that would ensure that
the delivery of my parcel is at least not outright exploitation, but Amazon
(or any other web shop, food delivery service or whatever) do not offer this
option, and are thus limiting the consumer power over where to shop based on
moral ground.

~~~
Spooky23
This is normal for a lot of the workforce.

The poor maintenance, etc, is just evidence of an awful company that doesn’t
give a shit. There are many like it.

The driver is the only person effectively held responsible for those defects,
so awful motor carriers tend to only attract awful or desperate drivers.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
>The poor maintenance, etc, is just evidence of an awful company that doesn’t
give a shit. There are many like it.

You're confusing "doesn't give a shit" with "our margins are too thin to
afford any shit". Most of the "sketchy" landscapers, dumpster/trash companies
and dirt haulers near you are in the latter camp. Downtime has a massive
opportunity cost. Businesses are not running bald tires because they want to
but because if their mechanic staff was four people instead of three that
would give them no margin and you need a margin to survive.

~~~
lotsofpulp
Hence regulations and inspections to ensure all players are playing by the
same rules and won’t be undercut by someone unscrupulous who is willing to run
bald tires.

~~~
Spooky23
That's where the subcontractor community is problematic.

If Amazon.com has compliance problems, it will get fixed. If Joe's Delivery
Service has problems, they vanish and Joseph's Delivery Service pops up.

This became apparent when Chinatown busses were at their peak problem -- the
"Lucky Dragon Bus Company 43" would replace the "Double Happiness Bus 24"
within hours of regulatory action.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
This. People would rather ride the $5 bus that may not make it than ride the
compliance bus.

------
ryanmercer
Ok? The article should be titled "I was financially irresponsible and had to
get a job at 57" instead it's some overly wordy fluff piece trying to make
working for Amazon sound like some amazing adventure filled with lying to
friends, calling women bitches, battling hellish throngs of traffic etc.

I mean, journalism has been a dying career field for at least a decade, author
is also 57 and had they been at least aware of the need to eventually retire
they should be most of the way to retiring and with even slight motivation
should have been able to retire a decade or more ago leanFIRE style. The
author failed to see the writing on the wall that their industry was dying,
they've failed to think outside the box with their degree as well, like...
being a substitute teacher and/or tutor.

"During my 33 years at Sports Illustrated, I wrote six books," Yeahhhhh 33
years at the same employer, 6 books sold and having to hump packages all
day...

Then look at how the article ends, approved for a loan. Borrowing more money
to make more bad decisions so they can keep churning out articles about how
life sucks needing to deliver packages.

The author is wholly clueless and is going to work until the day he dies or he
wanted to exercise his creative writing skills and is still holding out hope
of salvaging his career as a journalist.

~~~
magduf
I generally agree with your comment, however with the substitute teacher idea,
I suspect that being an Amazon delivery driver pays a lot better than that in
the US. Teachers in this country are compensated extremely poorly, and
substitute teachers even worse.

Seriously, I think trying to be a professional writer these days is a terrible
career choice. Unless you get lucky with a few best-selling novels or
something, you're probably better off driving for Lyft.

~~~
ryanmercer
>Teachers in this country are compensated extremely poorly,

I disagree. Average teacher salary here in Indiana is $54,308 (after
'falling', even the really underfunded public grade schools in the inner city
here in Indy look like they're paying around 41k) according to
[https://www.nwitimes.com/news/education/teacher-pay-in-
india...](https://www.nwitimes.com/news/education/teacher-pay-in-indiana-
continues-its-downward-
slide/article_6adb505d-9e8c-5e9d-8100-6635c1ce4eec.html)

That figure above doesn't include benefits like pensions either. State minimum
wage is $7.25, the median household income is $45,943. Teachers are handsomely
paid.

A lot of people are quick to say "but teachers work evenings and weekends for
free" yes they do, and they also have 2 months off in the summer which likely
equals them out to 2080 hours a year (sans vacation time) if not under 2080
hours a year.

As far as subbing, my lifting coach makes makes 30-40$ subbing for a few hours
a day between times he has the training facility open. Someone subbing all day
makes 60-100$ a day for essentially babysitting. Yeah, it's not full-time
delivery driver money but it would have given him plenty of free time to
continue to pursue writing freelance, or work on more books, I think the real
reason for the working full-time though was so he could take out another home
loan, as he needed enough documented income to justify the bank loaning it.

~~~
magduf
Last I checked, public school teacher compensation varied _radically_ from
state to state. Some states do pay pretty well (though I have a hard time
calling $54k "handsome" for a position requiring a college degree), while
other states pay peanuts.

------
ggm
"new grub street" by George Gissing. It's about an author experiencing the
same disregard for the value of writing in the 1890s (not about the money of
Amazon or lack of whizz joints for mobile workers: I think victorians just
pee'd wher they stood)

------
microcolonel
Good job! A lot of people wallow and believe that Real Work™ is beneath them,
or lash out and make things up about their employer to gather pity. I have
great respect for my brother, who (although he would obviously prefer to make
a living some other way) gets up in the morning and does his job, and reserves
his complaints for people who aren't holding up their end of the deal.

People will say all sorts of things about this; yeah it sucks to not know
where and when to pee on the job, but I've had this problem even in office
work. It is crappy, but it's not sheer indignity. Yeah, it sucks that they
don't want you using weed at home except for a diagnosed medical purpose, but
at the same time, it is no great indignity. Rail engineers and conductors here
can't drink within 12 hours of a shift, and if they tested for that I don't
think it would be insane. You'd be upset if somebody sparked a fat L before
going to work, and then injured you while mishandling a forklift; heck, you'd
probably sue Amazon (and you'd be right to), so you can surely understand why
they want to nip that in the bud, even if their approach seems heavy-handed.

Of course, people here don't like talk like this. I'm not being hyperbolic
enough about employment difficulties.

~~~
hliyan
I have an incredible amount of respect for people in high level roles who are
willing to roll up their sleeves when necessary. On the flip-side, whenever I
hear things like "I'm an engineer, I don't do CSS / write tests / write
documents", or "I'm an architect, I don't write code", it's a cue for me that
that person is not a good fit for my team.

~~~
meesterdude
> alright you're a cook. can you farm?

[http://www.criticalcommons.org/Members/JJWooten/clips/mitch-...](http://www.criticalcommons.org/Members/JJWooten/clips/mitch-
hedberg-can-you-farm/view)

------
jiveturkey
... and write for the atlantic

------
AlexCoventry
Is amazon having trouble hiring drivers? My submarine senses are tingling.

> my wife and I decided to refinance our home.

Hope it was fixed-interest.

------
MrTonyD
There are massive profits being made by industry all over the world...while
the typical worker struggles to survive. It seems reasonable to me for
governments to intentionally create jobs (protectionism works, the best time
for the middle class in the USA was when there were protectionist policies).
Taking away the massive profits from industries seems like the right thing to
do. What? They'll move away? Great - another opportunity to create more jobs
and start an industry while you block their newly imported products.

~~~
nine_k
The industries move away and carry the customers away with them.

Domestic market may be important, but not as huge, and you can't be best at
everything. If you lock the domestic market to mostly / only allow local
producers, you end up with lower efficiency than the world on average.

Living in a socialist country is not as nice as someone living in the US might
be imagining. If Soviet Union is not a good example for you, look at Sweden
(it largely stopped its 3-decade socialist experiment in early 1990s).

~~~
magduf
>The industries move away and carry the customers away with them.

Um, this doesn't seem right at all. It really depends on the industry/product,
and also on the country. The US is probably the largest single market in the
world, so it's pretty hard to _not_ do business there and do well as a
company, especially if you already do most of your business there. (Obviously,
this doesn't apply to local/regional businesses, such as a supermarket chain
in Italy or wherever.)

If Toyota was suddenly not allowed to sell in the US, that would be a gigantic
blow to their revenues and business. If Ford was in this spot, it would
probably be the end of the company. If Trader Joe's couldn't operate in the US
any more, that would be the end of them; they can't just pack up and move to
China. Amazon can't exactly pack up and move to China and "carry the customers
away with them" either; that really makes no sense.

No, protectionism generally doesn't work, but only generally. Lots of
countries (all of them?) are protective of some portion of their local
industry, usually for national strategic interests. You don't want to tie the
very survival of your people to some potentially hostile foreign nation, by
relying on them for your food supply, for instance.

------
orangeeater
> This proved problematic when my wife and I decided to refinance our home.
> Although Gina, an attorney, earns plenty, we needed a bit more income to
> persuade lenders to work with us. It quickly became clear that for us to
> qualify, I would need more than occasional gigs as a freelance writer; I
> would need a steady job with a W-2.

He's working for amazon to get a loan so he can refinance his house. I think
that's half-true, and I suspect the other half is that he got a job there so
he could write this article.

Either way I liked the article - it's a little misleading though.

~~~
akeck
That quote is a little... off? If your wife's an attorney and you can't get a
refi with getting a job delivering packages, is that house massive? Why would
the relatively small contribution of a delivery job push a bank over the line
for a refi? Isn't getting a delivery job during the Xmas season usually
temporary?

~~~
vonseel
He also mentioned that his checking account is overdrawn, so I think he may
need this income.

