
EA Sports Developer Calls Wii U 'Crap' and Nintendo 'Walking Dead' - jamesjyu
http://kotaku.com/ea-sports-developer-calls-wii-u-crap-and-nintendo-wa-508481261
======
shaggyfrog
I'm friends with Bob. He was my team lead, twice, at EA. He's a talented
developer and a great boss.

Nothing at all surprises me about the mixed reaction. Some people are mad
because they love Nintendo. Some are mad because they hate EA. But I haven't
seen a lot of people mad because they disagree with his message -- because
he's speaking the truth. Nintendo's platforms _are_ disappointing and
underwhelming. Just do a search for "Nintendo Wii U sales". It's a fact. (Yet
at the same time, like Bob says, Nintendo makes great games -- it's strange
how that particular comment seems to have been lost in the noise!)

It's hard to tell the truth sometimes, but especially in the games industry.
Gamers get emotionally attached (or opposed) to companies, platforms and games
more intensely than anything else in life. Any time you say anything about
_anything_ you're risking the digital mobs coming out with the pitchforks and
the torches.

And we know how mobs always take the time to pause and reflect.

His only mistake is not being Linus Torvalds talking about Nvidia.

~~~
Natsu
Nintendo has been "dead" a few times now, but they've been going since the
1800s or something when they made playing cards. They also have the capacity
to come up with crazy new stuff nobody ever expected. Maybe they're not doing
well right now, but I have a hard time believing they're "dead."

On the other side, we have EA, best known for insulting people and lying about
DRM, including their ex-customers, who they like to imply are homophobes. They
haven't managed anything more inventive than tired Madden retreads and they're
best known as a company for having their devs toil away in the EA slave mines,
where they make minor stat tweaks to Madden for 26 hours a day.

As a gamer, I know which company has more credibility with me. It's not EA.

~~~
shaggyfrog
The thing about sales figures is they're facts, not opinions. Finding Nintendo
"more credible" than EA is an opinion that doesn't change the fact that
Nintendo's platform isn't selling very well.

Furthermore, you seem to be conflating two different topics. I'm not a fan of
EA's DRM schemes any more than you are, but that's just not relevant in this
discussion.

~~~
stfu
_The thing about sales figures is they're facts_

Maybe... if they are 3rd party verified. And even then you can skew numbers in
whatever direction you like just by allocating promotional budgets.

~~~
shaggyfrog
Indeed, like Samsung:

[http://www.asymco.com/2012/11/29/the-cost-of-selling-
galaxie...](http://www.asymco.com/2012/11/29/the-cost-of-selling-galaxies/)

------
davidroberts
I interviewed for a job with them (Nintendo of America), and also did some
freelance work over the past couple of years, and I got the feeling whatever
they may have been in the past, they currently run on a fairly bureaucratic
model, and are not the kind of place that inspires or rewards innovation and
creativity.

They had video games in the lobby, but the recruiter warned me "Don't play
them!" She told me a previous candidate she took there got a job, but was
later fired for playing a video game on company time.

~~~
w1ntermute
> I got the feeling whatever they may have been in the past, they currently
> run on a fairly bureaucratic model, and are not the kind of place that
> inspires or rewards innovation and creativity.

You could say exactly this about most Japanese companies these days. Now
what's interesting is that change may be in the air. The current prime
minister, Shinzo Abe, has managed to line up the incentives correctly in the
Japanese government's notoriously intransigent bureaucracy and started massive
economic reform (often referred to as "Abenomics"), a topic that is the cover
story of this week's issue of _The Economist_ [0,1].

What Abe has done so far cannot create permanent change by itself, but if he
is able to follow through on his other goals and make lasting structural
reforms to the Japanese economy and society, then we may see an economic
resurgence in Japan. That's something that the West should be looking forward
to and supporting, given the need for a stronger counterweight in the Asia-
Pacific region to China. It was previously believed that India would take this
role, but things haven't progressed there as fast as people had hoped a decade
ago[2].

0: <http://www.economist.com/printedition/2013-05-18>

1: [http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21578052-shinzo-
abe-s...](http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21578052-shinzo-abe-shaking-
up-japans-economy-seems-different-man-one-whose-previous)

2: [http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21577373-india-
will-s...](http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21577373-india-will-soon-
have-fifth-worlds-working-age-population-it-urgently-needs-provide)

~~~
obviouslygreen
The problem is that the structural reforms are the one thing that actually
would make a difference, and they're also the one thing that not only hasn't
happened but hasn't even seen a plan put forward.

'Abenomics' is forced inflation (which is drawing more and more concern from
the G8 since it's going to become a problem for the rest of the world soon)
accompanied by massive public works spending (which was a failed previous LDP
platform that they can't seem to get past) that provide absolutely no change,
and only work in the short-term, if you can even consider this "working," as
it's creating no lasting change.

~~~
fungi
i understand that structural reform is the 3rd phase in the "3 arrows" agenda.

printing money / pork is obviously easier politically. if there is to be any
significant reforms, my guess is it will not kick in until well after the
upper house elections.

edit: worryingly the gov appears far more interested in nationalism then
economic reforms... so my hopes are not high.

~~~
obviouslygreen
Exactly my point. Structural reform is a nigh-impossible problem, upper house
elections or not, in any country, and Japan has a well-established and deeply-
rooted history of "change is bad."

In that culture of consensus, change simply has no chance. I have many friends
in Japan, and my fear for them is that their government is even more obstinate
than others, despite their situation being even worse. The thing that makes
this problem intractable, though, is that their people are the same as people
everywhere: They'll swallow the propaganda, they'll believe in the radical,
just as long as the radical doesn't require they change their lives.

No one wants to change, and the current administration in Japan knows that.
They're playing on it, just as the last administration did, and as the next
one will. No one will do anything until it's too late; change is too hard, too
expensive, too invasive, too inconvenient.

I hope things work out for Japan. I just really, really worry that if the
current political movements go through and amend the constitution in the ways
proposed, Japan will go from a traditional and slightly stilted democracy to
an oligarchy in all but title, run by reactionary nationalists without their
people's interests at heart.

[edit: This is a problem that's playing out in many industrialized nations and
will play out in many more; Japan is just seeing more and different parts of
it more quickly due to its unique situation.]

------
Millennium
EA's greatest games were done on systems far older and less powerful than the
Wii U. If all they want to do now is sell pretty pictures to easily-
manipulated fratboys, then yeah; maybe the Wii U isn't for them. But then,
maybe EA isn't for me.

~~~
ameen
While I agree with part of your comment, it sparks of victimisation rather
than anything.

In today's multi-platform market, shoehorning a game into a system that's
_weaker_ than existing consoles is going to be painful. The fact that
Nintendo's market particularly exists just for first-party games doesn't
motivate 3rd party devs either.

If one were to develop a modern console game with proper online functionality
(multiplayer, leaderboards, dlcs, etc), doing so on Nintendo hardware would
require extra efforts. It isn't as easy as getting it done on PSN or XBL.
Nintendo's online system needs a much needed overhaul.

------
smegel
I thought the Wii was ok, it was kind of cute that an underpowered device was
outselling ms and Sony for a while. But it was clearly not going to work a
second time, especially after the novelty factor of the original had fallen
away. Now with Kinect especially, nintendo really needed to address
performance issues and come up with something more than wii 1.1

~~~
cpleppert
Am I the only one who thinks that the tablet thing was incredibly gimmicky? It
doesn't add anything and just increases the price of the console. Nintendo
could've delivered a console that was significantly more powerful than the
current-gen a year ago and yet would be much cheaper than the next gen.

Everything about the marketing was just bizarre. I don't know of anyone who
has it or even wants it.

~~~
glhaynes
Have you played on one? Everybody I know that's actually used one likes it a
lot, and it allows gameplay possibilities that have never really been possible
before. (That said, it _badly_ needs more games.)

~~~
robryan
I think it would be holding a lot of people back from buying. Maybe it is
great once you start playing, from images online though it looks weird and
awkward to use.

------
adventureloop
As noted at the bottom of the article this seems another case(see the ms
fiasco) of employees not realising they always represent their employer.

These two scenarios do a lot more damage to the public reputation of the
companies. I don't think they can respond in anyway without taking more flak.

This sort of commentary seems to belong in private places to me, what a
strange world.

------
throwaway420
Up until recently, I still thought that Nintendo might have had a very solid
chance to recover from the tepid Wii U launch because it only takes one or two
amazing, must-buy games to get a system flying off the shelves. Nintendo has
had some great first party titles in the past and is certainly capable of
creating some amazing experiences when they put their minds to it.

But I think its become very evident that the suits, not the real creative
gamers, are now running things at Nintendo. The recent Let's Play debacle
where Nintendo monetizes user created YouTube videos is a relatively small
example, but its a symptom of a dumb, bureaucratically led company that just
doesn't get it.

Most businesses DREAM of getting their customers to make free advertising for
them, and Nintendo is going out of their way to stifle any incentive to create
that free advertising for what amounts to pennies for a business of that size.
That's something that really kills off any goodwill and support that a lot of
people had for them. That's just one small example that really illustrates how
far gone Nintendo is right now.

PS: While the Wii U has a number of pros and cons, the console's relative lack
of power is almost completely irrelevant to how fun the actual games are.
That's one criticism from the article that I still argue that most people
don't care about. Maybe game developers care about it, but as long as the
games are fun most average people don't notice or care.

------
venomsnake
It is a matter of perspective ... WII U seems to be having problems, and most
of the Wii-s I know about seem to be used only as a dust gathering devices.

I didn't even know it existed up to a month or two ago. Add into the mix the
fact that Japan is no longer the gaming manufacturing powerhouse it once was
and I won't be much surprised if they have rough time ahead of them.

How open are nintendo to indies? Most of the fun stuff happens there and it
seems like a natural fit to me.

~~~
zalzane
>How open are nintendo to indies?

Absolutely not at all. The only way for joe schmoe indie developer to make
games for a nintendo platform is to crack the console and make homebrew games
that only work on other cracked consoles.

edit: looks like someone needs to be reminded what the downvote button is for.
Everything I said is factually true, and the fact that Nintendo shows
"interest" at a convention or allows some of the top selling indie titles onto
their platform doesn't change how hostile they are towards the homebrew
community.

~~~
mehrzad
Nintendo is slowly opening up to indies especially on the EShop with games
like this:
[https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/WQaA7w-yvWTrSVOJ9x5w-I...](https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/WQaA7w-yvWTrSVOJ9x5w-IfWq4ew1rrE)

They generally only take more famous titles IIRC, but saying they hate indies
is not true at all, especially with their presence at that conference
recently.

~~~
zalzane
How is that an indie title? It's published by sega and is being produced by
Double Fine, a well established developer that has 50+ employees.

------
jamesaguilar
As a gamer, I have felt this way about Nintendo at least since the wii. But
it's hard to argue with results. That said, their recent results haven't been
so great. It wouldn't surprise me if the company went the way of sets
eventually, producing games for other consoles rather than making their own.

~~~
CrazedGeek
...said everyone since at least the N64, and they've been doing quite well
since then.

The 3DS is doing fantastically right now, and the Wii U's getting some heavy
hitters very soon. They're not going down for a while.

~~~
deelowe
Time will tell. They do have quite a robust first party catalog, but I don't
see nintendo being a major player in the console market for this generation.
Outside a few loyal first party gamers, not many will buy the wii u. Everyone
I know that bought a wii doesn't plan to get a wiiu.

~~~
OrsenPike
I will get a Wii U for Mario, Zelda, Metroid and Smash Bros. Plus probably a
few others like I did for the Wii (Xenoblade, Last Story, Paper Mario, etc.)

Who knows if Nintendo can survive ~5 more years with that sales model though
as I am pretty sure in 2 years time they will begin to feel the pain from
phones and tablets a lot more for the casual gamers that they won over with
the Wii.

------
justinhj
I think the WiiU has some great features. Playing new Mario for example looks
great in HD, and at the end of each level you can post messages that other
players will see. This creates the feeling that you're not in a vacuum. The
WiiU is not a sales disaster; if they well only to fans of nintendos games
that's still a business. EA Sports relies on flashy graphics and large US
install base, so I can see why they would avoid WiiU. Professional developers
need to remember when tweeting about platforms that they represent their
companies.

------
Karunamon
Odd words coming from a massively reviled developer with leadership and
financial issues...

(Have a look at their long term stock price especially since 2008.. ouch!)

~~~
corresation
Ad hominem. Further the comment is repeated only because it confirms something
widely believed.

The Wii was in a similar situation but got a reprieve via novel controls, but
of that generation while countless 360s and PS3 units are still in heavy
service, the Nintendo devices gather dust (mine never got unpacked after
moving. Non-HD just destroys it in an HD world). The WiiU novelty seems to be
a nonstarter. The device has the stench of a serious failure.

~~~
Karunamon
Stop misusing the term "ad hominem". I didn't say that EA was wrong in that
post (which is an essential component of that kind of argument), I said they
were being hypocritical. Pointing out hypocrisy/irony is not an ad hominem
argument.

Anyways, the U's launch library is admittedly abysmal, but it seems they've
finally got their head around online services that don't fail completely. It
only took 2.5 console generations, but there you go.

I'd compare it to the early PS3 launch if anything. Critically panned,
overpriced, bad launch library.. give it some time, and I've got a good
feeling the situation will improve. PS3 turned into one of the better consoles
of this generation, despite Sony's best efforts to the contrary.

Also, complaints about underpowered hardware go to the bit bucket, Nintendo
has pretty much always lagged behind the cutting edge on tech, any
buyer/developer who doesn't understand and expect that at this point in time
is not paying attention.

~~~
corresation
Your post was the _very definition_ of an ad hominem attack -- you sought to
cast aspersions on the speaker, having nothing, whatsoever, to do with the
actual argument. And to humor your points, there is nothing whatsoever
hypocritical or "ironic" about an EA developer criticizing a hardware device
when their own organization is seeing a financial downturn (or at least they
were...their last quarter was quite a rebound), and I'm perplexed how you
think that is relevant.

The PS3 succeeded because it could be justified as a superlative blu-ray
player, at the perfect time that people started looking for blu-ray players.
The WiiU has no such advantage. The WiiU has done dismally in reviews, has
little software (and little hope of much to come, given that a growing number
of game makers have declared it a non-starter), and is widely anticipated to
be destroyed by the soon-to-be-announced next generation of consoles. It is
DoA, given that its sole opportunity was a first mover advantage but that
didn't pan out.

 _Also, complaints about underpowered hardware go to the bit bucket_

Sure...okay...

~~~
msg
Dispersion s.b. aspersion...

Time to calm down.

------
chevas
Nintendo is running right behind Sega and should turn itself around as soon as
possible.

------
fhars
Then this is a veiled acquisition offer, since EA has long been known as the
place where great game companies go to die?

