
In Praise of the Philly Stoop - brudgers
http://www.phillymag.com/news/2017/05/20/philadelphia-stoops/
======
vollmond
There was an article posted here a few months back lamenting how SF is
gradually losing stoops and gaining garages, with driveways that cross the
sidewalk.

People enter and exit their cars in the closed garage, never having the chance
to greet their neighbors on the way, and also make what was traditionally a
pedestrian-only zone more hazardous since now they drive across it (often with
poor visibility).

As someone who has always lived in the Midwest or suburbs, when we bought our
first house a couple years ago I was happy to have it be a rowhome in a small
downtown, with an actual porch out front sticking into the sidewalk. I can sit
out there on my bench swing thing and interact with my neighbors in a natural,
informal way.

~~~
Declanomous
I've noticed something similar in Chicago. We have an 'eyes-on-the-street'
clause in our building code, which requires a certain number of windows face
the street. I've noticed a lot of buildings that are being built have
'windows' which look into some interstitial space that prevents the people in
the inside from seeing the people on the street and vice versa.

I personally think that this falls under the heading of what I deem anti-
social behavior. Anti-social behavior isn't limited to property crime and
violence, it's anything that dehumanizes your fellow man. The people who
construct their life so they only interact with exactly the people whom they
want are the most anti-social people I can imagine. I personally think they
should move to the suburbs if they can't stand the thought of interacting with
a neighbor.

Thankfully in Chicago we have alleys, and you have to pay a yearly surcharge
for the 'no parking' area created by street cuts, so there aren't many
driveways crossing sidewalks.

~~~
nf05papsjfVbc
To me 'asocial' seems like a more accurate term. It's not like they are out to
harm fellow humans or society.

~~~
Declanomous
Anti-social can also mean someone who just doesn't want to interact with other
people.

I'm deliberately invoking both meanings of the word, because I think taking
the desire to avoid interaction to the extreme harms society.

~~~
nf05papsjfVbc
Either I've been introduced to a new meaning of the term of you are mistaken
about the meaning. I'm going to look it up. Perhaps I could persuade you to do
the same.

Also, by wording it as "extreme", it becomes a bit difficult to have a debate.
Doing "too much" of anything is by definition more than what is harmless.

In the case from the context above, one interpretation is just people's desire
for privacy. I'd also say that by giving it a name with a negative connotation
we are pressuring the people who have preferences that can be described as
asocial to be more like the others and that I believe is unfair.

~~~
throwanem
You have been introduced to a new meaning of the term.

I don't think it's especially unfair to argue that engineering to prevent
chance interactions should be discouraged, and invoking privacy in this
context is a bugaboo - access to privacy really isn't the same thing as making
sure that you never have to greet or talk to anyone in a way that isn't
planned.

I know a lot of people who don't really have that sort of unplanned
interaction with anyone, and they tend to be the same people who think I must
be uncommonly brave to use my city's public transit system, which they
erroneously fancy to be peopled primarily by dangerous characters. By
preserving their ignorance of their fellow people, they free their
imaginations to assume the worst, and in a democratic society where such
imaginings can quite easily translate into wrongheaded and harmful public
policy, I don't think it is at all hard to argue that such ignorance, and such
fancy, grows questionable - even dangerous - to the same extent to which it is
indulged.

~~~
mmmpop
> You have been introduced to a new meaning of the term.

Says who? It's one thing to invent a brand new word, but it's another to
modify a word with already established meaning to a slightly different meaning
just because some people started using it the wrong way and it stuck. See the
word "poignant" for another great example of the active bastardization of
English.

~~~
throwanem
I really don't want to get into a pointless debate over prescriptivism, and
there is no other kind of debate over prescriptivism. But, here, have some
authorities:

Wiktionary:
[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/antisocial](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/antisocial)

Merriam-Webster: [https://www.merriam-
webster.com/dictionary/antisocial](https://www.merriam-
webster.com/dictionary/antisocial)

Oxford Dictionaries, English - as close as you get to OED without paying, and
my library card's at home:
[https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/antisocial](https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/antisocial)

How many more would you like me to cite? And what's your problem with
"poignant"?

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maxfurman
Never thought I would see an article on Philly stoops here on HN! They are
certainly low-tech but there's nothing like a cold drink on a stoop with your
friends in the summertime.

~~~
cat199
When I lived in DC, I used to call this "stoopin' it".

Walk to the corner bodega, get a 6er of some cheap schwilly beer, return, sit.

Agreed, it is the best.

~~~
soylentcola
Baltimoron here. We still semi-jokingly say stoopin' as well.

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emehrkay
All of the comments are right, we, in Philly, never called it "Stoop," but
simply steps. Stoop seems like an NY word. My mom still sits outside daily in
the summer, she doesn't have a misting fan though (I didn't know those were a
thing). I'll get her one

~~~
maxfurman
I live in Philly and I get texts about "stoop beers" at least once a week
during the summer.

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cylinder
How asocial do you think air-conditioning has made people? The loss of
porches, stoops, opening large windows, hanging out outside because​ you have
to, etc. I read once that in NYC, Sheep's Meadow in Central Park was covered
with people sleeping overnight on sweltering summer days.

Nowadays you've got to be really actively, intentionally social. It's just too
easy to sit on the couch, order food, watch Netflix, browse social media and
ignore real life.

~~~
ThomaszKrueger
I wonder how global warming / climate change will end up bringing us back to
that. It will be even more sweltering, and I can imagine air conditioning
restrictions similar to today's watering restrictions.

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drzaiusapelord
Chicago apartment buildings have a similar design either like this or near
ground-level front porch, and when I was a kid near everyone was using them in
the summer. You'd be hard pressed to walk down a block and not see near a
third of the units with people hanging out in front. They became like
backyards, BBQ's and all, but more much social because you could interact with
your neighbors.

Today, condo development has destroyed some of these designs and the old
apartment buildings don't ever seem to have anyone on the stoop or front
porch. I guess people are more indoors orientated now or simply less social
with their neighbors, at least in more gentrified neighborhoods. I barely know
my neighbors to be honest. Sounds like the times haven't really changed much
in Philly.

~~~
Declanomous
I just wrote a comment that is nearly identical to yours.

Interesting story -- I actually moved to East Garfield Park a few years ago. I
honestly thought I would never interact with anyone in the neighborhood, given
the fact that I'm from a completely different socioeconomic background. I know
way more people now that I have in any other neighborhood I've lived in.
Everyone is outside when it is nice out.

------
beat
I wish we had more of that.

In my Minneapolis neighborhood, it's all 100 year old bungalows. Some have
proper porches, most have stoops, and the stoops are set back from the street.
Even the proper porches tend to be three-season or four-season (hey, it gets
cold here!), with screens or windows isolating from the outside.

I like sitting out on the stoop and playing guitar, but it's not an
opportunity to really interact with the neighbors much. At least I'm putting
myself out there, though.

~~~
coldpie
I wonder if you live down the street from me :) There's a guy who occasionally
plays guitar while I'm walking home from the bus. Maybe I should go say hi.

~~~
beat
I'm a couple of blocks north of Minnehaha Park, if that's the right location.
If it is and you see me, say hi!

~~~
heuermh
Hi! I'm a different front porch guitar playing guy in Mpls, near Lake Harriet.
It's been getting too sunny out there lately though, because we're losing all
of our boulevard ash trees.

~~~
beat
We lost seven curb lindens (including ours) on my end of the block a few years
back, the summer solstice windstorm that left much of south Minneapolis
without power for days. My block took it particularly hard, trees down all
over the street, smashed cars. So yeah, not enough shade for us either.

I'm waiting for the emerald ash borers to finally get to the beautiful, mature
ash in my backyard. :( I love living in a forest, but hate the tree maladies.
Luckily, they replanted all our curb trees with diversity, rather than the
monocultures of older Minneapolis streets.

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owenversteeg
Meta-comment: this thread seems to be HN's stoop. There's only 29 comments and
we've got people talking about little bits of their lives, where they've
lived, their current neighborhoods. It's pretty nice to have this little
snippet of semi-off-topic HN.

Is there any interest in a "weekly stoop" thread where people just comment
about whatever interesting thing that comes up, nothing in particular? Things
people find interesting, little discussions, things people want to know about.
The kind of things that aren't really big enough for separate submissions, but
could make up a few comments. I feel like that'd be pretty interesting. Has it
been tried before?

~~~
NoCoastCoder
Lots of subs on reddit have weekly off-topic threads

In my experience it's interesting to get a slice of life of the user base for
awhile but quickly gets old.

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Declanomous
I've always been really fond of the front porch in Chicago for a similar
reason. They are a bit more elaborate -- they are often covered, and are much
larger as a whole, but they are pretty much the perfect place for 4 or 5
people to hang out.

I've met so many people because they are drinking on a porch or on a rear deck
and I've started talking to them, and next thing you know I'm drinking a beer.

There's often a sunroom/living room/den connected to the front porch in
Chicago. This room is known as the frunch room. I'm not entirely sure how to
spell it, but it's a portmanteau of front and porch.

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adultSwim
In West Philly we have porches

<3 community

~~~
cat199
I thought in west Philadelphia, playgrounds were where one spends most of ones
days?

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jacquesm
Title is missing an 'e'.

