
Sonder Keyboard - tomkwok
https://www.sonderdesign.com/
======
dyates
Since I've got a keyboard with blank keycaps, I've found my typing's improved
because I look at the keyboard less (and when I do it doesn't really help).
With this, I imagine you'd look at the keyboard more as time goes on. That's a
negative to my mind. If I'm going to be looking at the buttons I'm pressing, I
may as well use the mouse and an on-screen toolbar.

I suppose it might be useful if you wanted to switch languages and keyboard
layouts a lot, but then so would my capless keyboard, if in a somewhat less
user-friendly manner.

~~~
busterarm
Likewise... and if these keycaps are ABS, how are they going to deal with the
inevitable shine/cloudiness that will effect the keys?

Also...chicklet keys? Really?

~~~
SonderDesign
G'day,

I'm one of the engineers; the keys aren't ABS; they're manufactured of SAN so
we haved observed issues with cloudiness and distortion one would have with
ABS. Also the optical properties of SAN are far better; it acts as tranmissive
medium.

Also, it's not chicklet keys lol; I'm a cherry blue user at home usually; the
mechanism is based on a modified topre.

Cheers mate for the feedback, if you have any questions just shoot.

~~~
busterarm
Ahh! Interesting choice of plastic there. You'll have to go for inclusion into
the Deskthority wiki for plastic types. As a Topre adherent, I'm interested in
hearing more about your keycap mecahnics :)

~~~
SonderDesign
I'll def post there, I'd love to say more but patents! However, needless to
say; we're excited to be working on the product and an entirely new mech that
hopefully becomes the standard in keyboards / laptops.

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Zuikaku
Looks to me like a much cheaper (albeit smaller version) of the Optimus
family:
[http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/](http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/)

Not sure how I feel about a 60% Board that isn't mechanical for more than
$100. The fact that I can customize shortcuts and mappings is interesting, but
how easy is it to set up? How far can you take the customization?

When I compare this to the Poker series, it seems a lot more user friendly on
the surface (no dip switches or manual programming layer), but I don't think
the cost is justified.

Although that said, the fact that they use the Apple keyboard typeface for the
modifiers (and show Mac compatibility) probably signifies that the product is
not for the likes of me.

(Also no ISO layout whaaaat)

~~~
Gmo
fn key on the left of the ctrl key, this is definitely a no go

~~~
emsy
Especially since they could've made the special keys E-ink and mappable m(

~~~
SonderDesign
G"day Emsy, we're amending the design to address this very issue since so many
users pointed it out during or June press. We're speaking to our manufacturer
to have all dynamic keys. Cheers mate.

------
kenny_r
The Optimus keyboards [1] by Art. Lebedev Studio have been around for a while
but they've always been prohibitively expensive. While this keyboard doesn't
have color in the displays, it's actually affordable.

Another similar product is the Razer DeathStalker Ultimate [2] keyboard, but
only 10 if its buttons have programmable displays.

I wonder why Razer (or anyone else) haven't made a standalone keyboard that
followed the approach they took with their Switchblade [3] concept. They put
transparent keys over a large lcd panel. It's much cheaper than putting a tiny
lcd display inside each key.

[1]
[http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/](http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/)

[2] [http://www.razerzone.com/ap-en/gaming-keyboards-
keypads/raze...](http://www.razerzone.com/ap-en/gaming-keyboards-
keypads/razer-deathstalker-ultimate)

[3]
[http://www.razerzone.com/switchblade](http://www.razerzone.com/switchblade)

~~~
SonderDesign
We had the exact same question ourselves, we decided if they wouldn't then we
would.

P.s I'm one of the engineers on site working on the project.

------
kitbrennan
For a product focused on improving a user's experiencing of using a computer,
it seems odd that they would deliberately override my browsers scrolling in
such a horrible way.

Not only that - but their scrolling override has also broken swipe left to go
back a page.

The keyboard looks pretty - but I dread to imagine what the experience is like
when setting up keybindings.

~~~
SonderDesign
G"day Kit,

I'll remove it, you're the second person to say it so I'll work to fix the UI.

P.s The site was built for our Govt Grant App, we've invested most of our time
in customer and product development. However I'll invest more time into user
testing and website dev to fix these points. I appreciate the feedback!

------
danbruc
_Sonder cloud.

Every Sonder keyboard is unique, personalise it your way. Perhaps you use your
Sonder as a bloomberg terminal, or for audio editing; with Sonder all your
settings are saved automatically to the cloud._

How many am I supposed to buy? Some built-in memory or maybe even a card
reader in the keyboard would surly get the job done and keep your keyboard off
the cloud.

------
hmans
Claims to improve user input. Website has JavaScript-based smooth scrolling.

No.

~~~
anc84
Static header takes 25% of my screen height.

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radiorental
I'm a UI designer and built something conceptually similar for my own
research/amusement. I embedded a touch display with custom keys in to my desk,
the keys reflected the app on screen. After a few months of use I retired the
project. Simply put - it's a great concept for learning keymaping but once
muscle memory kicks in you rarely* look at your hands.

So, for the applicaitons demoed in the showreel (Adobe creative suite,
Halflife) Users typically have a rather aggressive trajectory to proficiency.
I.e. they only need a keyboard like this for a short period.

* I guess the business model here would be to be affordable enough to justify the rare usage?

Here's a link to the 'touchdesk' I built for Make Magazine:

[https://books.google.com/books?id=xfax4r5mfdsC&lpg=PA149&ots...](https://books.google.com/books?id=xfax4r5mfdsC&lpg=PA149&ots=3DB9dxP5o2&dq=pauric%20touchdesk&pg=PA144#v=onepage&q=pauric%20touchdesk&f=false)

~~~
SonderDesign
I'd love to talk further, shoot me an email at francisco@sonderdesign.com so
we can connect. I love your work!

------
yAnonymous
If the command key can't be changed, that makes it useless for me.

~~~
SonderDesign
G'day, as per the above we're amending the design to make all keys dynamic due
to the overwhelming response for just this.

~~~
yAnonymous
The keyboard looks like it's targeted at an Apple audience, so the design
could very well work out for you, but if you want to make it viable for
Windows/Linux users, that's a solid choice. Looking forward to seeing updates.

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techdragon
Nice idea. Shame about the form factor.

I fondly remember my 144 key keyboards.

Failing to even bother making a 104 key 'full size keyboard' when your
keyboard isn't even using 'fancy keys' for all keys is pretty irritating.

Oh and how about you make the command/meta keys 'fancy' so that the damn
keyboard works 'perfectly' on Windows, Mac, and Linux.

Oh and in case anyone isn't old enough... This is not original at all.

Optimus Maximus Optimus Popularis ... etc

~~~
SonderDesign
G'day Tech, you make a good point. We originally went with the 60% because to
create a new EPD you have to have a forecast of 500k displays / year. We
adapted to the circumstances.

Given the press however we will amend the design to have all dynamic keys.

We have a few Art Lebedevs at the office, they also cost like 10x of our
product so it is rather original.

Thanks for the feedback, I hope the design amendments address your points too!

P.s We will also be shipping a numpad + later a full 104 key too.

~~~
techdragon
It sounds like your addressing a few of my points already, which is great.

But I don't think you've got a leg to stand on when you say "rather original".
You could definitely say "innovative", or "vastly improved" because you have
slashed the costs by 90% which is amazing. But that doesn't change the fact
'this has been done before', done 'poorly' but 'done' none the less. This
isn't a bad thing, I had a smart phone before the iPhone, I loved my P900, but
I like my iPhone way more.

------
axx
Web Developers: Please stop fucking around with my browsers scrolling
behavior!

This is awful. I loose every intention to look at your product.

~~~
SonderDesign
G'day Axx, roger that. I'll remove it since you're the 2nd to notice the
scroll jacking (we had this exact discussion in the office haha).

------
petepete
As the website is down, here's a site with some basic information and
pictures.

[http://liliputing.com/2015/06/sonder-keyboard-a-
customizable...](http://liliputing.com/2015/06/sonder-keyboard-a-customizable-
keyboard-with-e-ink-keys-could-eventually-sell-for-199.html)

~~~
SonderDesign
Cheers Pete, we just changed servers so post migration it shouldn't happen
again!

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naoru
Das Keyboard [1] makes you value your keyboard shortcuts (and time) much more.
Keyboard is an interface for hands, not for eyes.

[1]
[http://www.daskeyboard.com/daskeyboard-4-ultimate/](http://www.daskeyboard.com/daskeyboard-4-ultimate/)

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tricoder
Well, nice technology for keys... but why they still arrange keys in staggered
columns?

~~~
SonderDesign
G'day Tricoder, I'm one of the engineers. We would love to do a matrix and
perhaps ergonomic build but overwhelming majority of users find it too
radical; baby steps; we're planning on addressing this incrementally but it's
a good point you raise.

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mrfusion
n. the realization that each random passerby is living a life as vivid and
complex as your own—populated with their own ambitions, friends, routines,
worries and inherited craziness—an epic story that continues invisibly around
you like an anthill sprawling deep underground, with elaborate passageways to
thousands of other lives that you’ll never know existed, in which you might
appear only once, as an extra sipping coffee in the background, as a blur of
traffic passing on the highway, as a lighted window at dusk.

~~~
SonderDesign
Beautiful definition, fun fact, it also means special in German!

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kensai
Finally, a less expensive Optimus Popularis! I really hope the keyboard
supporting software is up to the task!

~~~
SonderDesign
Thanks Kensai, we're investing a lot of work into the API and UI to ensure the
user experience is intuitive, very challenging indeed.

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philihp
What kind of switches does it have?

~~~
creshal
Can't put any of the mechanical switch designs into that height, so most
likely scissored rubberdomes like every $5 keyboard.

------
mapcars
What is the difference to all other keyboards?

~~~
SonderDesign
Hi Mapcars,

The keys are dynamic; ie they adapt depending on context so you can illustrate
shortcuts, languages and personalised macros.

Cheers mate

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chinathrow
No natural design, no hand support, lame. ;)

~~~
yAnonymous
Using a wrist rest increases the risk for carpal tunnel syndrome.

~~~
Yizahi
I suppose he thinks about design similar to MS Natural 4000, not about wrist
support. 4000 family is the second best design in ergonomics, after
maltron/kinesis.

~~~
chinathrow
Indeed, that's what I called wrist support, what would be the proper term?

What I really disklike about the MS Natural 4000 is the small enter key. Fucks
me too often still. And it does noething to prevent pinky finger issues in the
outer joint.

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monk_e_boy
Pre order $199

~~~
SonderDesign
Cheers Monk, also subscribe at our site to keep in the loop,
www.sonderdesign.com.

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druml
How does this work for vim or emacs?

~~~
amelius
Personally, I want a keyboard with a _big_ ESC key.

~~~
jensnockert
Use caps lock.

~~~
amelius
Yes, but this requires me to rewire my brain whenever I work on a terminal
that does not allow me to change my key bindings.

