
It's later than you think - cloudytoday
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/its-later-than-you-think-j-r-storment/
======
codebeaker
I took a step back in my career to work from home, and bring my kids to the
kindergarten with my bike some days, and take a late lunch and eat their
"dinner" with them, and it has been totally, totally worth-it.

Remote work being a set-back is possibly a side-effect of how I selected my
new gig, but it has suited me so well, I don't care about the (temporary)
career stagnation.

Beautiful story, I felt it hard.

~~~
JeanMarcS
I had the opposite path 4 years ago.

After working from home (and watch my kids grow) I had an opportunity to work
to help finishing a big project that would make money.

It was just 3-4 month of hard work (including almost every week ends and some
nights) and then back to normal hours when the project would be on track.

Well, as often, months turned to a year, then a year and a half, and no real
end of the "hard" part in sight.

My son started ignoring me, my daughter waked up early to have a glimpse of me
before I go.

I finaly ended it (mostly when the word Divorce was pronounced out loud) and
fight to be a member of my family again. And work from home.

For now, this period was the biggest mistake of my near-half-a-century life,
and until the kids can take themselves in charge, I won't move from home
again.

~~~
jschwartzi
Yeah, I've never had the experience that those project schedules ever turn out
to be realistic. You get to the end and then there's just more stuff to do in
less time. And now that you've put in all those hours everybody wonders why
you're backing off from the project.

------
ChuckMcM
Such a heart breaking story. For me it was taking a walk around the office and
seeing a private plane take off from San Carlos airport, here its engine
sputter, and then watching as it fell from the sky into the "lagoon" next to a
hotel. Life ends. Really slammed home how a 'normal' day could suddenly be a
really bad day, or your last day.

One of the unfortunate challenges of tech work is that as someone young and
single you can spend all your time at work with your colleagues building
really cool stuff and get the social fix and the financial rewards of lots of
hard work. And if you get married and have kids, and suddenly the demands of
the family keeps you from putting in the same amount of time at work, well you
find yourself either explaining to your boss why you aren't getting as much
done, or explaining to your spouse why you don't seem them as much as they
would like. Can be tricky to navigate to a new normal.

~~~
ryanwaggoner
Was it a twin airplane? I was doing flight training out of San Carlos around
the time that happened and yeah, it was sobering. I haven’t flown since my
daughter was born.

This one: [https://m.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/NTSB-Engine-failure-
in-...](https://m.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/NTSB-Engine-failure-in-fatal-
plane-crash-3900028.php)

~~~
ChuckMcM
That exact one

------
wtvanhest
IMO, the best PG essay says the same thing differently
[http://www.paulgraham.com/vb.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/vb.html).

It has had a profound impact on how I think about everything, but especially
the time I spend with our now 1 year old.

I'd recomend everyone read it, and internalize that you only get 52 weekends
in a year. You also only get a handful of each holiday with your kids. His
words are better than mine, and I encourage everyone to take the 2 minutes
needed to read the essay, then implement a life strategy that gets you home
with your family more.

~~~
jodrellblank
> And while it's impossible to say what is a lot or a little of a continuous
> quantity like time, 8 is not a lot of something. If you had a handful of 8
> peanuts, or a shelf of 8 books to choose from, the quantity would definitely
> seem limited, no matter what your lifespan was.

And yet if you had a handful of 8 loaves of bread, it would be a lot of bread,
if you had 8 luxurious chocolate truffles it would be more than you want to
eat in one go. If you had 8 shelves of books the quantity would still "seem
limited". If you stepped outside and there were 8 cars on your driveway, that
would be a lot of cars and a long driveway, if none of them started and you
had to walk 8 miles to the train station, that would be a long walk, if you
went to the dentist and needed 8 fillings that would be a lot of fillings, and
if there was a creature as tall as 8 humans, that would be a long horse.

Just choosing that the units of measure are peanuts and books, is not enough
to establish that 8 is a small quantity, objectively and unquestionably.
Everything is relative, everything is viewed in comparison to something
different. Peanuts compared to how filling they are, books compared to .. how
much choice you feel you deserve, outside of reading time. 8 books is quite a
lot of reading time.

If you decide that 8 Christmasses is a paucity of Christmas, where did that
decision come from? Why is it not enough, and how many would be enough? (and
is the answer an eternal "just one more"?) If you have $8 but you want to
spend $10 then $8 is not much money. If you have $8 but you want things which
are ten a penny, $8 is a lot of things.

If we can't control how much we have, but we can choose what we want, why do
we so often choose to want more than we have, then feel annoyed at the
disinterested universe for being so mean to us?

------
citizenkeen
I live in Portland. I switched to being a software developer when my son was
born, starting a new career.

I make probably $20K less than my peers. (I make $82K a year as a fourth year
C# software dev. I've got a law degree and am willing to travel around the
country a few weeks a year for stakeholder meetings.)

I'm home every day by 3:15. I take my son to the library, to the park, to the
forest, to OMSI, on weekdays. Some days he and I just sit on the couch reading
and talking about superheroes for two hours until dinner.

Do I feel envious of my peers who make more? Yes. A lot. The urge to keep up
with the Joneses is strong. Do I second guess my decision? Never. My job is
relaxed, I come home and party with my son and wife with energy. I cried
reading this story, but it only affirms my decision.

~~~
whalesalad
You can do both. You’re worth more than that. It doesn’t need to be one or the
other.

~~~
jesterson
I believe it's almost impossible. Each of us have 24 hours per day and as of
now, there is no way to stretch it.

~~~
whalesalad
With that mindset yes it’s impossible.

------
CalRobert
Remember that performative workaholism is poison to life. Every time you put
in more hours over the weekend "just because", dial in to a meeting on your
vacation, or get on Slack at 10 PM "just to check a few things" \- you're
shifting the culture to make it that much more acceptable to demand it of
everyone. The parents in your meetings that run until 7:30 bitterly hate you.

It might seem OK when you're single, childless, etc. but once that time starts
coming from your family you will realize what a prison you've built yourself.

STOP IT. STOP IT RIGHT NOW.

~~~
adossi
I agree if you're talking strictly about salaried employees, because you don't
get paid for that overtime work. But as a contract developer if I want to work
60 hours each week, instead of 40, to earn an extra 50% when I invoice them at
the end of the month, that is my prerogative.

~~~
dtech
That is of course your choice, but if you do that for a long time, there's a
chance of burning out, divorce, losing touch with friends and family etc.
Money isn't everything.

~~~
geodel
'Money isn't everything' is kind of truism. Stories abound, however of
divorce, losing touch with friends and family once a person faces money
troubles. Note that I am not trying to justify any particular way. It is just
things are going to happen irrespective of one's outlook towards money.

------
klik99
I'm in tears reading this and his wife's account
([https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/all-remains-dr-jessica-
brande...](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/all-remains-dr-jessica-brandes/)) -
I didn't realize how short life was until I realized I only had 52 weeks with
each of my one-year-old sons, and stories like this are a reminder about
what's really important.

A friend said it well when I was feeling guilty I wasn't putting more time
into my work, "No one has ever looked back on their life and said 'I wish I
spent less time with my family'".

~~~
dgzl
> "No one has ever looked back on their life and said 'I wish I spent less
> time with my family'".

Not everyone has a family worth being with.

~~~
overkalix
At some point your family is not so much the people you were born to or grew
up with, but the people you've chosen to be with, build a live together...
Also, if I had to guess, no one has ever looked back on their life and said 'I
wish I had spent more time being deliberately obtuse on the Internet' either.

~~~
coldtea
> _At some point your family is not so much the people you were born to or
> grew up with, but the people you 've chosen to be with, build a live
> together..._

Point still holds though. Your "made" family (marriage, heck, even kids) might
turn up not to be all that great either. Happens to millions...

> _Also, if I had to guess, no one has ever looked back on their life and said
> 'I wish I had spent more time being deliberately obtuse on the Internet'
> either._

Those are people who die with regrets though, so perhaps not the best people
to listen to what to do not to have regrets! Their "I should have actually
done that instead" deathbed choice might be equally bad as the original choice
they made...

~~~
52-6F-62
I think they meant the people that become your real family. It doesn’t have to
be marriage. It can be a select of friends where a strong bond has formed.

------
nscalf
Just a note for everyone who tends to go through the comments and weigh if
they should actually go read the post (I'm guilty of this), go read the post.
Even if you have nothing to relate this to, it's a great contrast to the
majority of posts on this site. It's a breath of fresh, troubling air.

------
hi41
My deepest condolences to the family. I hope no parent goes through that
experience the author and his family had.

On the other had, I met a lady at the gym counter. She looked very tired so I
enquired about her. She said it was third job. She said that she was doing
that just to barely put enough food on the table for her family. I think some
of the benefits IT folks enjoy is not what rest of the world experiences. She
too complained that she doesn’t spend enough time with her kids. Life is
difficult for so many people that they to make such compromises. The rest of
us who can take time off a little should put it to best use.

~~~
joelx
I was shocked when the author of the post said he had had twins and founded
his business in the same month. I just had twins a few months ago and founded
my business ten years ago. I couldn't imagine doing both at the same time.

I have massive newfound respect for parents, and especially for working single
mothers. I have no idea how they do what they do. I am fortunate enough to
have a nanny, work from home, and it's still very challenging.

~~~
rdtwo
I see this kind of stuff from time to time and I also don’t understand how
people do it. I wonder if they either don’t sleep or over report their
contribution to parenthood

------
ryanmarsh
Many of us, especially younger folks with income anxiety and families see no
other choice but to work slavishly at the expense of time with our families
because we see avoiding starvation as more important than quality time. We
could all be forgiven for this.

I've made it past that phase of my life, having missed the entire first year
of my middle daughter's life, not being there properly for my family after the
loss (cancer) of one of our daughters at 2 1/2\. My oldest daughter (are you
keeping count) who is 18, I barely know and am just now building a
relationship with.

I have the luxury of not making that mistake with our youngest daughter (we're
up to 4 girls now) who is now 5. I still remember giving up time at home so
that I could ensure I kept my job and was investing in the skills to get the
next raise.

Hindsight is 20/20 and you already know what I'm going to tell you. You'd be
surprised how little of your stress about your current job translates to you
keeping it, but that stress makes you grumpy or distant and difficult to feel
love from. You'd be surprised how something as small as dinner together,
tucking them in at night, or an unrushed breakfast, can take so little time
but mean so much to you and to them, still leaving you with the time to
advance your career on behalf of the ones you love.

Please spend those special moments, they're so few and they pass so quickly.
Your family likely won't starve, and maybe even getting fired from a toxic
environment will be the break you need to see what else the world has out
there for you and your family.

 _" For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper
you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."_

Jeremiah 29:11

------
WA
I read things like that with totally different eyes than when I had no kids.

~~~
badloginagain
I could read things like that when I had no kids.

~~~
SketchySeaBeast
I can't imagine. I don't have kids and the horror and grief is tangible.

~~~
latortuga
I can feel the panic that the author describes as he runs out of the office. I
can feel it in my chest. Before kids this would have been a story to read.
With them, reading this is me falling apart at my desk.

~~~
krallja
Yep. That horrible feeling from this story stuck with me for DAYS.

------
ElijahLynn
Very touching, I shed a few tears on this part.

"I’m guessing you have 1:1 meetings on the books with a lot of people you work
with. Do you have them regularly scheduled with your kids?"

I am totally doing this, but more like 1:1 days.

~~~
wastedhours
Definitely, make sure there's just "time". Everyone I've spoken to who has a
real quality relationship with their kids has reiterated quantity is better
than "quality".

Don't fall into the trap of thinking that making it to the odd piano recital
is the same as being there every day for dinner.

As the piece sadly reminds us, that calendar invite might be scheduled too
late.

~~~
noja
Yeah this "quality time" trope is often just a justification for not being
there very often.

~~~
taurath
You become a manager of your kids, not a parent. The quantity time is when
you’re there to emotionally engage with them. If you only show up during
quality time, you’re teaching them that it’s only during big moments that life
matters.

------
leshow
Reading this post I can't help but feel for the sibling. When I was 5 I lost
my sister and best friend; you just aren't equipped to deal with the event at
that age.

~~~
steve_adams_86
Yes, so many years with the pains unravelling as you learn to cope with that
loss. Children are great at handling traumatic events, but it doesn't mean
it's any less traumatic. That poor kid is probably going to struggle with this
for a long time.

~~~
_thro_a_way_
One hot August day my father was involved in a farm machinery accident, and
died of his injuries two weeks later. I was 5.

All the time I was growing up, it used to surface every couple of years. Later
when I got into college and took a bunch of psychology and child development
classes, I learned that the brain undergoes a major reorganization at about
two year intervals, the last being in the early twenties. Looking back, I
realized that at every brain re-org, I mourned again. I mourned like a 5 year
old at 5, like a 7 year old at 7, etc.

After my twenties, I thought I had put it completely behind me.

Then when my own daughter was 5, I had a period of several months where I felt
an unfocused dread. A feeling of impending doom that I just could not explain
or account for. Then in late September of that year, somehow I snapped out of
it, with the realization that I was still alive. I looked at my daughter and
understood that I was her age when my father passed. And it all made sense.
And I am free.

Thanks for listening.

~~~
steve_adams_86
That's an incredibly hard event to process at 5. Someone close to me lost her
dad at 6 in a similar way (major injury, passed away shortly after), and I've
helped her process that in conversations over the years. It's still hard to
grasp what that experience would be like. I can see the pain it inflicts, the
questions it triggers, but I suppose I'm fortunate enough that I don't fully
comprehend it. Losing parents is so hard, and hard enough as an adult when
it's easier to process and you may even feel secure in your independence.

I'm glad you feel free now.

------
univalent
Heartbreaking to read and every parent's worst nightmare. Life has become so
fast and everyone works too much these days. Growing up in India, I remember
my parents (who had challenging jobs as a math prof and doctor) still spent
all evening and all weekends with us and my one surviving grandparent also
lived with us. Cousins came by every week and there was so much family around.
Now, here we are with all this money in a giant house in this expensive place,
working 60-70 hours a week and I wonder if I'm doing right by my kids. Need to
spend more time with them..

------
breck
Crying as I read this. I can't imagine. Thank you for sharing. So sorry for
your loss. As a new father, hits home hard. Nothing is more important in life
than your family and friends.

As a new father, things like SUDEP and SIDS are terrifying. I hope one day
technology will improve, so we'll have fitness bands or smart cameras or smart
mattresses that can detect these rare events and report back data so we can
understand them, and hopefully at some point, intervene and prevent them.
Sharing your story will hopefully inspire people to keep working on this kind
of thing, so hopefully it might help save some other child in the future.

------
trentnix
Wow. That’s a jolt of sobriety. God bless this man and his family.

------
hprotagonist
_No man is an island,

Entire of itself.

Each is a piece of the continent,

A part of the main.

If a clod be washed away by the sea,

Europe is the less.

As well as if a promontory were.

As well as if a manor of thine own

Or of thine friend's were.

Each man's death diminishes me,

For I am involved in mankind.

Therefore, send not to know

For whom the bell tolls,

It tolls for thee._

I hope you heal in time, and we're with you in your grief.

------
ph0rque
Wasn't planning on wiping away tears from my eyes this evening...

~~~
holler
same, and I don't have kids yet.

------
Aaronstotle
An incredibly heart-breaking story. I can't relate as I'm younger and just
graduated from college last year. However I've lived away from my grandparents
and my mom for the last 3 years and I'd like to move back home so I can spend
as much time as I can with them.

------
A1phab3t
As a father of a toddler, I really appreciate stories where you get a phone
call out of the blue and somebody tells you your child died. I didn't have
enough anxiety about him already, so thanks for giving me a reason to panic at
random phone calls from my wife.

------
southerndrift
>Wiley was obsessed with starting a business. One day it was a smoothie stand,
the next it would be a gallery, then a VR headset company, then a ‘coder’,
then a spaceship building company.

To me, this sounds like the father shouldn't be worried too much. Wiley loved
the way his father was to the point of wanting to emulate him.

>Damn, could that kid dance.

The kid gave it all, like his father. Without such a role model, would he have
been the same kid? Would he have had such a precious life?

------
dmfjfj
Thank you very much for this. As adults, we often forget we need to cherish
those around us. I hope author finds peace.

------
anewguy9000
i went through a very similar experience a year ago. its been hard looking to
go back to work, in particular responding to the inevitable question of "what
have you been doing the past year". if you respond truthfully, its so shocking
the interviewer never knows how to process it, so almost immediately feels
like the doors just close. i know these things dont happen every day, and they
are existentially challenging to contemplate, but they do happen. if you're
responsible for hiring, please remember that your candidates are first and
foremost human beings. i wish the author luck when he is ready to begin the
next chapter.

------
callmeal
I thought it was about my favorite poem [0], but it turned out to be even more
heartbreaking.

> Lastly, you who read; aye, you

>Who this very line may scan:

>Think of all you planned to do ...

>Have you done the best you can?

>See! the tavern lights are low;

>Black’s the night, and how you shrink!

>God! and is it time to go?

>Ah! the clock is always slow;

>It is later than you think;

>Sadly later than you think;

>Far, far later than you think.

[0] [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46651/it-is-later-
tha...](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46651/it-is-later-than-you-
think)

------
guytv
I don't know you, but I send my love and good thoughts.

------
NKosmatos
Condolences for your loss...

We should all focus on things that matter in our lives and not take as granted
that we (or our loved ones) will be around for ever.

Stories like this remind me of a nice post about the “lifetime calendar”:
[https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/life-
weeks.html](https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/life-weeks.html)

------
BlameKaneda
I don't have kids of my own but my SO's sister has twin boys, aged 5 months.

Reading this article was tough. What if one of her sons doesn't wake up one
day? What if something happens to both of them?

She and her husband have busy careers, and while I won't share this article
with them (it'll probably be a sore spot) I'm hoping that they'll make enough
time for their kids.

------
_def
This is a horrible fate and I wish the parents of the boy all the best. It's
important that you don't beat yourself up and search for regrets though. Maybe
that's part of griefing but it's not okay if it stays. It's very important to
look out emotionally for yourself, only then you can reliably look out for
others.

------
chrisdhoover
Enjoy yourself, its later than you think

Enjoy yourself while you’re still in the pink

The years go by as quickly as a wink

Enjoy yourself enjoy yourself its later than you think

------
jenkstom
I hate you for posting this, but I'm going to hold my children really tightly
before bed tonight.

------
patatino
When I was 16 I started my education as a software developer in a company and
for the first time realized there are fathers who cannot go home and eat lunch
with their kids.

My father was always at home for lunch.

My daughter was born 11 months ago and I switched jobs and work now fully
remote.

------
baxtr
I think for me the biggest lesson is that I am taking from these kind of
stories: be focused. When you are spending time with your loved ones don't
look at your phone all the time. Be there with them. I am really bad at
this...

------
aerovistae
Orthogonal to the main point of this post, but was anyone else struck by the
part about "he had kissed multiple girls" (by age 8)? I find that fairly
incomprehensible.

------
natalyarostova
Thanks for writing this. I'm sorry for your loss.

------
twoquestions
Glad he's able to take time off.

I've known people who couldn't get time off if such a tragedy happened to
them. Sure as hell stronger than I am.

------
forgotmypw
>The big question is how to return to work in a way that won’t leave me again
with the regrets I have now. To be honest, I’ve considered not going back. But
I believe in the words of Kahlil Gibran who said, “Work is love made
visible.''

Imagine you just came into enough money that you never have to work again.

What would you work on, then?

What is something that you can do that no one else can?

What can you do to help make the world more harmonious?

How can you help humans, animals, plants, machines, and the planet as a whole?

Think about these questions, and then do that.

Ignore money.

~~~
justwalt
I’d probably find some open source project to dedicate myself to. Maybe work
towards sustainability in some shape or form, or at the very least invest in
it. But it’s tough to ignore money.

------
sv12l
It hurts hard. I'm taking day off tomorrow for long overdue day out with my
daughter.

------
agumonkey
Yeah time and the self.. a harsh lesson to get.

------
zer0faith
Nothing is more important than family.

------
ciustuc
I honestly was not expecting that.

------
gautamcgoel
Really bravely written post.

------
jes
I have liked this video by Sam Harris for several years now. It is all to easy
to go through life, lost in discursive thought:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3JzcCviNDk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3JzcCviNDk)

------
stasusmt
I think we need to care about our parent too. As they become old, we are just
fly away from them and they will struggle in their stage as us. Damn life.

~~~
bradlys
I think those who like their parents do already. I think those who don't like
their parents don't need to. It's the parents' job to be a person worth loving
and caring for. It isn't the child's burden.

~~~
ulkesh
Exactly this. I have divorced parents who each remarried.

I have a mother who makes so much effort to make sure she stays in our lives.
Calling/Facetiming every week at minimum. And she has visited at least once or
twice a year the past five years. And we visit at least once a year if
possible.

By contrast, I have a father who has literally done nothing to try to visit us
in five years. It was always us making the effort, taking time and money away
from ourselves, for them. And we got very little in return. We have been given
very little respect by them despite showering them with undeserved respect.
Every time we visit, it's like they're acting out their own Seinfeld episode
-- literally worth nothing except waiting for the next opportune moment to be
sarcastic "gotcha" asshats.

Some people would say, one shouldn't look for a return, that it should be all
about giving. Those people must never have been burned in their lives. For me,
reciprocation is the bedrock of a relationship. Any relationship. It doesn't
have to always be equitable, but time and effort must be shown. Otherwise, I'm
out.

------
agentstrix
If the author is reading this, I'm so sorry for your loss. I can't imagine the
devastation you must have felt and must continue to feel.

It's important that you take care of yourself though. As someone who works in
mental health, I've seen how these events sometimes have a way of affecting
your mental state in a gradual and cascading manner. Please stay cognizant of
you and your family's mental health in this difficult time.

~~~
cabaalis
I'm divorced, with one young boy that I split time with my ex. Were this to
happen to me, I am really not sure a mental health professional could help.

This quote FTA may have just changed my life:

"I’m guessing you have 1:1 meetings on the books with a lot of people you work
with. Do you have them regularly scheduled with your kids? If there’s any
lesson to take away from this, it’s to remind others (and myself) not to miss
out on the things that matter."

~~~
toddwprice
I was logging on here to call out that quote specifically. My kids are both in
college now, and we're empty nesters for the first time as of a week ago.

My advice to all of you with young kids is to follow that advice. Schedule 1:1
time with each of your kids, and make it more important than your most
important meeting at work.

------
tin-foil-hat
i'm not crying you're crying

