
Samsung Unveils 15.6-Inch Ultra-HD OLED Display for Laptops - jseliger
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13896/samsung-unveils-15-6-inch-ultra-hd-oled-display-for-laptops
======
ksec
If this is still AMOLED, which I assume it will be, then I wouldn't buy one
unless I intend to buy a new laptop every two years. LG's Top Emission WOLED
is still 2 years out and I am not convinced that has solved burn in effect on
TV with lots of moving pictures, let alone on PC where almost 80%+ of what we
do every day has static screen.

It just seems the OLED burn in problem will never really be solved, only
delayed.

May be WOLED will one day become good enough, the Joint research from Google
and LG shows WOLED was capable of much higher PPI than what we have today, but
the brightness just aren't good enough for Phones and Laptop usage. So WOLED
will still needs to increase PPI, Increase brightness, reduce power, all while
trying to delay burn in. I don't see that happening in 3 years time.

MicroLED is still at least another 5+ years before happening on phones or
laptop. LCD, or QLED LCD is the best we have got at the moment in terms of
longitivtiy.

~~~
Nursie
How bad is it?

I ask because I'm interested in a tv and the prices are starting to enter the
realm of sanity (IMHO).

I have a 2010 Plasma, and people said that would suffer from burn-in. The only
issue I ever had with it is when I left a game or menu up for several hours,
and a shadow image would be left. The smudges went away pretty fast when
something else got displayed, and all is well 9 years on.

So ... does anyone know how bad the OLED problem is? Is it a bit overblown
like the concerns about SSD writing shortening their useful lives? Or is this
really something to be concerned about, and the industry is trying to brush it
under the carpet?

~~~
Improvotter
I watched this burn in test a few weeks ago. It looks like a great test.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOcLasaRCzY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOcLasaRCzY)

~~~
vesinisa
These guys are doing god's work. Their website was an impeccable resource when
I was buying my first new TV in a decade about a year ago. Absolutely
unparalleled quality of reviews for different TV models in the market. Makes
the job of cutting through all the marketing B.S. and finding the TV model you
really need a whole lot easier.

------
dzhiurgis
600 cd/m2 might be just enough for outdoor work. Current MBPs say they are
500. I can only work on it with bright IDE theme.

My iPhone pushes up to 725 and it's useable with sunglasses at the beach.

Discontinued Lenovos OLEDs had pissy 330 cd/m2...

~~~
nolok
What you want is a laptop with a matte screen. Not a "glossy treated for
reflection/matte like", which is what you find on most expensive laptops like
those from Apple, but actually matte.

It's kind of hard to find because it doesn't sell well because the colors are
very much toned down on it, but you can have the sun right behind your screen
and it won't matter. I still have one from ~2012 (from the french store LDLC,
which are rebranded custome made Clevo) that I gave my GF, and for work
purpose and always being at top visibility the screen destroys anything else
I've used since.

I'm genuinely weirded out that as far as I know there is no major work brand
like XPS or MBP offering true matte screen as options anymore ...

PS: if you haven't seen one before, it's truly no reflection/competition with
the sun at all, and it's truly washed out colors.

EDIT: I would at least like to know why I'm downvoted ? A true matte screen is
vastly better when facing sunlight, which is what I'm answering to

~~~
dzhiurgis
What about when it's in a shadow or overcast day?

~~~
nolok
It looks just fine and plenty bright, although it is clearly far worse looking
than your regular glossy screen (since that's their perfect conditions). So in
that scenario I would prefer a glossy screen because the colors are better BUT
I would have no problem with a fully matte one.

And then in a fully dark room, I would again say the matte it superior to
glossy because it's brightness feels much less abrasive to the eyes (but my
eyes tend to be sensitive to light, I'm the kind of person who needs to change
his screen luminosity depending on condition, so for people who don't care
about that it would be glossy being better due to the colors I guess)

------
Causality1
Considering my old phones get burn-in after a year or two, that windows has
far more static elements than Android, and that I don't replace my laptop
every year, oled would be a horrible choice for me.

~~~
JoshTriplett
> that windows has far more static elements than Android

Android has a status bar at the top that's displayed over most applications.
And applications on Android are far more likely to be maximized, which makes
the common design elements and widgets more likely to be in the same place.

To the best of my knowledge and research, though, the current generation of
OLED screens and controllers manage to avoid image retention.

~~~
paulryanrogers
IIRC, many rely on pixel shifting every time the screen sleeps. Not sure if
the same strategy would work on laptops

~~~
raihansaputra
It shouldn't be that noticeable if scaling is turned on. Could be a pretty
good strategy for laptops.

------
Lucent
One of the only OLED laptops I'm aware of, the Lenovo X1 Yoga Gen 2, has
consistent, widespread problems with flicker. It seems that every display
needs replacement every year or so due to flicker at either high or low
brightness. I'm on my second panel, and it's already failing at brightness
above 50%. I'm hoping Samsung figured this out by now.

~~~
funkaster
I have an Alienware 13 r3 (QHD OLED Touch display) and so far I've had
absolutely no issues. The screen is just amazing. I've had the computer for
over 1 year and the screen is as good as the first day. This is a gaming
laptop, so I've tried lots of games and I haven't seen any type of flickering.

~~~
daef
I'm really annoyed with my 13r3s OLED screen - the red pixels are much faster
to illuminate from zero to little compared to the blue - which themselves are
faster than the green pixels. this leads to a reddish/magenta smear on the
leading edge when something gray moves on black background.

same stuff that guy over there is complaining about:
[http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/alienware-13r3-oled-...](http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/alienware-13r3-oled-
ghosting-blur-lag-and-driver-issues.803114/)

------
wilkskyes
Must be a nightmare when installing a new Linux distro in text mode and having
bird seeds as characters.

~~~
shmerl
Does such resolution even make sense on 15.6" screen? You won't see any pixel
difference with a lower resolution most likely (unless you look at the screen
from a very close range).

~~~
truncate
I owe a Dell XPS 13 with 4k display running Linux. Fonts are clearly much more
sharper (maybe even feel darker) and pleasant to read than 1080p or even 2k .
Although, I see you point. For most practical purposes it does not make
difference I think, but I really love 4k when I'm programming. These days I'm
not programming much, hence switched to 1080p as little experiment (and got
fed up with sloppy GNOME performance), and I would say I don't notice much for
general tasks.

~~~
Tepix
There are two generations of the Dell XPS 13, at first they had a 3200x1800
display, they switched to 3840x2160 last year.

In my opinion 3200x1800 at 13.3" is more than enough already (I own one) but I
guess marketing wanted more.

~~~
Brakenshire
Are they in the range where the UX size can be doubled without being too
large?

~~~
truncate
Yes. 2x worked perfect for me at 4k, and its the default for hidpi settings I
think. When I switched to 1080p I had to manually increase font sizes (not
overall scaling) because the default size wasnt sharp/readable enough. Its
pretty cool 4k now works so well out-of-box on Linux. It was nightmare in
2015.

------
twoodfin
My bet is that Apple’s first ARM machine will be a MacBook with a display like
this in a jet black case, 12-core “X-series” chip, Face ID.

Defaults to dark mode to help skirt any burn-in issues.

Announce it at WWDC and even at $2500+ devs will go nuts for it.

~~~
kecupochrenx
I want 120+Hz display and I will gladly give them whatever they will ask for
it

------
burtonator
The only downside is that they won't let you uninstall Facebook from it.

All jokes aside the specs for this thing look great. 15.6" and 4k. I want to
see this in production laptops ASAP.

~~~
paulie_a
And two mail clients, a good one and the Samsung one

And two calendars, a good one and the Samsung one

And two browsers, a good one and the Samsung one

And two text editots, a good one and the Samsung one

And a camera application, a good one and the Samsung one

Why do they bother?

~~~
thaumasiotes
As far as I've read, because they wish they didn't have to depend on gapps. To
the extent you wish Android were a little freer of Google, you should support
that idea.

~~~
paulie_a
So they make worse quality apps yet still include gapps. That's a brilliant
plan.

How about they stick to quality hardware and let the pros deal with software.

------
mark_l_watson
nice. I just bought a System76 Linux laptop with a 4K display (and a 1070 GPU)
and having a 4K display is really nice. I almost didn't upgrade to the 4K
display and I am glad I did.

I think large TVs are great for supporting group-watch events but for personal
viewing something really hires and nearby is better, IMO.

------
nkkollaw
Ugh, 16:9.

When will laptops stop coming with 16:9 monitors? Do people really buy laptops
to watch movies, or productivity?

~~~
widerporst
Most consumer laptops are probably used quite often for watching movies, but
this shouldn't be an issue. My laptop has a 3:2 screen and I don't even notice
the black bars when watching a video. An OLED display would be even better for
this as the bars are as really black.

~~~
nkkollaw
I mean, how many movies can you watch in any given day? I would think 80% of
the time is spent browsing the web.

My screen is 3:2, too, and it's many times better. Apple's laptops (sorry,
forget exact ratio) are acceptable, too, it's just that 16:9 doesn't make any
sense to me and I have no idea why more companies aren't providing
alternatives. I guess it's a non-problem and I'm the only one who sees it this
way.

~~~
nicoburns
> I mean, how many movies can you watch in any given day? I would think 80% of
> the time is spent browsing the web.

I know a few people who mostly use their laptops to watch movies / netflix.
The rest of the day, they're not using the laptop at all. (there is some web
browsing of course, but not much).

------
make3
I thought oled panels couldn't be used for laptops because of burn-in. the
article says they don't know if this laptop is any better, which is the only
question that matters

~~~
Ndymium
Guess we'll see in a year or so. My OLED phone had burn in after a year and I
can see the Android status bar when I watch full screen videos.

~~~
oblio
Is your phone from Samsung? Is it new?

~~~
Ndymium
It's a Moto Z2 Play. Previous one was a Moto Z. Both show burn in after a year
of use.

~~~
oblio
From what I know, the higher end phones don't suffer from burn-in. Your phone
is quite cheap and they do have to skimp on something. It's generally a good
idea to get a midranger with an LCD instead of OLED, for that reason. You lose
some image quality but you avoid these issues.

~~~
Ndymium
Moto Z cost north of 700 €. I would not call that cheap.

~~~
oblio
Well, considering how much an iPhone XS costs, the definition of "cheap" for a
smartphone has migrated North the past few years :)))

------
lucb1e
Why do all these oled displays have to be 4k nowadays? I was shopping TVs
recently and found exactly one 2k (1920px) oled screen for about 700 euros
when looking across three countries, which was slightly above budget but I was
considering it. If there had been more than just this one choice, just to have
some OSes and features to choose between, I might have gone for it. But 4k
oled costs thousands at no added benefit, so now we have a crappy (girlfriend-
selected) 4k backlit lcd that you actually notice turning on backlight
selectively on parts of the screen that have non-black pixels.

It's not as if I can see individual pixels from across the room. Same with a
laptop (I don't see my pixels on a 16" 2k screen), a computer display (I don't
see pixels on a 23" 2k screen), and a phone (I don't see pixels on a 5.5"
720px screen). I'm pretty sure that if you can see individual pixels at those
sizes, you're sitting too close.

On my phone I really just want my 720p oled display back: there, too, I have a
crappy 2k lcd now because oled is too expensive at the resolutions they make
them nowadays. And I was hoping to see oled laptops soon, but it looks like we
first have to get every single application to be rewritten to support more-
pixels-than-you-can-actually-see zooming modes, then bring down the price of
these panels, and then I can buy one.

~~~
rikkus
I'm not sure about the TV across the room, but I certainly see the pixels on a
2k 23" monitor. I'm using two now and every second I'm itching to get back to
my Macbook's Retina display. Everything else about these monitors is fine...
except pixel density.

In Windows this is better (for me) because I personally like the subpixel
rendering there - it's aligned to pixel boundaries more often and looks
clearer to my eyes.

~~~
zapzupnz
I've got a 27" 5K iMac. At work, we've these 21.5" 1080p displays. I just
can't use them, the text just looks so ridiculously blurry. Once you've seen
HiDPI rendering, you can't go back.

I'm doubting GP has ever worked with HiDPI content for an extended period of
time.

------
gesman
The problem is that 15.6" is physically too small to leverage that much of a
resolution real estate with human eye comfort.

I do high definition photography (think gigapixel panoramas) and editing
anything like that on 3840x2160 laptop (high end laptop) is a suffering.

I always looking forward to get back to my 32" monitor.

~~~
shittyadmin
The main point here is to gain improved resolution on text where it's quite
noticeable going from 140 PPI to 280 PPI - many developers will appreciate it.

It should be fine for the kind of work you're doing though, are you using
tools that don't support DPI scaling?

~~~
gesman
I leveraged scaling and kind of played with different options of it.

For developers working with proportional code - unless you have super sharp
eyes to scale your Sublime Editor to sub-1mm characters - i don't see it
making much difference.

I physically feel comfortable with a text character of a certain minimal size.
Beyond 4k it really doesn't matter how many pixels or colors are used to
render the font or image on 15" screen. Making it too tiny or super-true-
color-ish doesn't make much difference on a laptop screen that typically only
used for "temporary" on-the-road work.

~~~
shittyadmin
It's about being able to use more pixels to render things like curves and
serifs in fonts mainly - things that subpixel hinting attempted to address on
lower DPI displays can now be done much better and without the blur tradeoff
by using more pixels. At the very same size, fonts look noticeably better
because more pixels can go into those tiny rounded edges.

------
sergiotapia
I wish laptop companies would focus on battery life more. I would love a
laptop that lasted 4 days on a full charge.

~~~
read_if_gay_
Where's the problem with charging your device overnight? As long as it gets
you through the day I think it's fine.

~~~
sergiotapia
It gets old, if I could I would wire up my desktop to charge all my devices
wirelessly but that would probably fry my nutsack or worse.

------
dom96
Strange question: say I want to buy this display for a hobbyist project,
what's the best way to do this?

~~~
Tepix
You may be able to find some at panelook.com

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kasperni
That does look slim. Wonder if we will start seeing screen notches on laptops
as well

------
papaman
anyone tried a screen from an imac
([https://support.apple.com/kb/SP760?locale=en_US](https://support.apple.com/kb/SP760?locale=en_US))
or any apple computer?

Even my 5years old imac is better than this new samsung screen.

I have a Win/PC as well (for gaming) and I'm using the Samsung CHG70
([https://www.samsung.com/us/computing/monitors/gaming/32--
chg...](https://www.samsung.com/us/computing/monitors/gaming/32--chg70-gaming-
monitor-with-quantum-dot-lc32hg70qqnxza/#specs)).

It cannot even be compared with the screen from imac. It's blurry, with wrong
colours and low quality.

Even now, I don't know how no other company can replicate Apple's screens.

~~~
narutouzumaki
Have you looked at this new Samsung screen in person, or what makes you say
that?

How about the HDR screen from the X16G?

~~~
papaman
I haven't but I've tested a lot of Samsung screens and I own one of their
latest good ones which is the CHG70 (32').

It sucks so much you can't even compare it with the Retina iMac (5k) screen.

------
romanovcode
The display looks amazing, however the computer itself looks horribly ugly.

------
cauldron
Maybe make LCD laptop screens decent first?

Hard to buy an affordable laptop with decent screen, bascially all crap with
garbage gamut, literally hurt eyes.

It's a shame laptop makers are willing to add those useless entry level
discrete GPUs yet are too stingy to spend 20 to 30 bucks more on the display.

~~~
raihansaputra
But the addition of 'dedicated GPU' is what drives sales, unfortunately. I
don't think nVidia's x20/x30 GPUs for mobile improves anything. Anybody that
actually needs power would opt for x50 or higher, and anything less would be
served by integrated graphics.

------
oskkejdjdkjd
Give me micro LED or give me death

------
kuminoter
The pixel density is too low for 2019. If would be good 11-13 incher but 15
will be too pixelated.

~~~
gbil
On my desktop I have a 27" 4k monitor (3840×2160) and I'm a bit intrigued on
how this resolution is not enough for a 15.6" monitor, what do I miss here?

~~~
toper-centage
Number queens. Same people that have such advanced vision they can see the
difference between 100 and 120 fps. After a certain point, even more if you're
at a safe distance from the screen, more pixels don't make different to the
naked eye. But you'll never convince number queens.

~~~
kuminoter
Why so bitter? There is no need to call people names because they have better
eyesight than yourself.

------
malkia
After all these years, the perfect resolution (for me) is still 1920x1080 -
whether it's 13", 15" or 17" ...

~~~
stronglikedan
4k with 2x scaling is much sharper and easier on the eyes.

~~~
malkia
I'm finding the exact opposite, but this could be due to me being okay with
seeing actual pixels, and might be even missing them. I've started on Apple ][
clone with 40x20 console resolution (80x20 with PR#3), and later Hercules
monochrome one for my PC.

------
dandare
Serious question: what is the point of such high pixel density? I assume you
can not tell any difference between 2k and 4k from the distance a laptop is
supposed to be used. Is it purely a marketing hype? Or am I missing something?

~~~
Nursie
> I assume you can not tell any difference between 2k and 4k from the distance
> a laptop is supposed to be used

My 2013 13" macbook pro retina has a resolution of 2560x1600. I absolutely can
tell the difference compared to 'Full' HD, just in crispness of image,
beautiful font rendering etc.

So a 4K screen at 15.6" doesn't seem outrageous to me.

~~~
jakobegger
Also, OLED displays have fewer subpixels as far as I know. I think LCD usually
have Red/Green/Blue for every pixel, OLEDs don't. So on an OLED display, you
need a higher resolution to make it look as sharp as an LCD.

------
me551ah
I prefer laptops to be thin, light and something that I can carry around in my
hands. 15.6 inch is too big for a portable laptop and starts to approach
desktop replacement territory. Rather get a 14 inch Laptop and plug it into a
4k monitor when you need the larger display area.

And since this is OLED, does that mean that the windows start button and
Apple's system menu would get burned into the screen :-/

~~~
pmontra
I hope that some manufacturers (hello HP!) will use that slim bezel 15,6"
screen in a 14" body format without those hideous number pads I have to buy
and never use. The laptop in the article looks perfect, just add three
physical buttons around the touchpad as in HPs ZBooks.

------
npunt
Gorgeous display unfortunately married to sub-par industrial design.

The colors are all off. Black display hinges break the silver line of the
chassis. Two black buttons on the left do the same. Big black touchbar type
thing coupled with white keyboard keys. Small trackpad that's not color
matched to the chassis. Also, 'SAMSUNG DISPLAY' branding trashes the beautiful
edge-to-edge display.

Only ID conceit I understand is the rubber pads at the edges, since presumably
there's no room to add them to the edge to edge display.

Aside from the display, it looks like a bad MacBook knockoff. Samsung can do
better, they have on some of their phones.

~~~
bhauer
> _Black display hinges break the silver line of the chassis. Two black
> buttons on the left do the same. Big black touchbar type thing coupled with
> white keyboard keys. Small trackpad that 's not color matched to the
> chassis. Also, 'SAMSUNG DISPLAY' branding trashes the beautiful edge-to-edge
> display... Aside from the display, it looks like a bad MacBook knockoff.
> Samsung can do better, they have on some of their phones._

This is about the display. The laptop it's attached to is probably just a
proof of concept demo platform for the display.

~~~
npunt
Good point. I just looked at Samsung's lineup [1] and it seems they're mostly
plasticy machines aimed at the low and mid end of the market. I thought they
had some high-end parts like Dell. Guess they don't have the platform to
adequately show off the screen quality, so they just cobbled something
together.

[1] [https://www.samsung.com/us/computing/windows-
laptops/](https://www.samsung.com/us/computing/windows-laptops/)

~~~
Scarbutt
The platform is dell, lenovo, hp, etc...

Samsung is a big supplier of electronic parts.

~~~
npunt
Samsung is both a creator of consumer electronics (TVs, dishwashers,
smartphones, notebooks, etc) and a supplier to other consumer electronics
companies. They're massive. Hence my bringing up their notebooks, as I was
initially confused that they'd be introducing this in their own lineup.

When you have unique access to technology, one strategic opportunity is to use
that to move up the value chain from being a supplier to being a retail brand
and create a differentiated product, winning market share. Samsung right now
pretty much has a lock on non-TV OLED production, but is choosing not to go
the path of using those in their own computer brand, and instead are selling
to other computer makers. It's an option they have but have chosen not to
pursue... so thats interesting.

