
Next Time Your Mom Says Don't Go Out in The Rain, Spray Yourself With This  - Jaigus
http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2013/02/07/171370893/next-time-your-mom-says-don-t-go-out-in-the-rain-spray-yourself-with-this 
======
iamshs
Well this concept is based on superhydrophobicity. I do not know the working
of this coating particularly, but it seems to be superhydrophobic. A
superhydrophobic surface(SHS) is one where water has very high mobility i.e.
an extremely water repelling surface. Is is due to a surface having low
surface energy and a textured topography. They hold very high
commercialization potential. Lotus leaf is one natural occuring example of
this phenomenon. The research into this field started extensively in 1997. SHS
can be employed in variety of applications theoretically i.e. cars,
windshields, toilets, ketchup bottles, kettles, phones, power lines,
preventing ice accumulation, on boat hulls, on shoes in rain, fabrics, solar
cells, around sinks, shower curtains... the potential is unlimited. Many
researchers are working on making it possible, and they are very good ones
too.

So after you have been primed about the subject, what is preventing their wide
spread usage? Durability. Not a single one of them is able to sustain
mechanical duress. And one of the most widely used chemical is Teflon, which
is expensive. Hence, reapplication is not possible time and again. Many
researchers are working on it, but a solution remains elusive until now. These
sprays are nice such that they open the field, but much more still needs to be
done in this field, since these sprays have been in market for at least 5
years now.

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marvin
What no one seems to think about is the potential health consequences of this
application of nanotech.

This is basically something made with particles that are much smaller than
your cells. The material can probably get into your body by osmosis alone.
Will the materials affect your body? Cause cancer? Get stuck in your lungs? Do
something else that we don't know? There has been very little research on this
area, and the little research that has been done is worrying. Putting this in
consumer products is a very large and uncontrolled experiment.

We should be careful of starting to use materials like these with no further
study or testing. There is a risk we might end up looking like the guys who
brushed their teeth with radium or used a portable x-ray video machine to
examine their kids' feet at the shoe store.

~~~
aaron695
"x-ray video machine to examine their kids' feet at the shoe store"

Except there's no real evidence this ever hurt anyone?

And xrays are an incredible medical marvel that has saved millions of lives.

Fear hurts more than it ever helps, if they had delayed xrays for even a few
years imagine how many more deaths there would have been.

The precautionary principle is a dangerous idea that has somehow has gotten
mainstream acceptance. It regularly kills people, people somehow think it's a
safe concept when it's not.

~~~
StavrosK
You're posing a false dichotomy, in that we either use X-rays for everything,
or nothing. Using X-rays for medical imaging is worth the risk, using them to
try on shoes isn't.

Consequently, using this material to avoid getting your boots soaked and
freezing to death on a mountain might be worth the risk, but using it on your
coat isn't.

The truth is that, indeed, we don't know the health risks. Fear has saved more
lives than taken, I suspect.

~~~
aaron695
Through the magic of hind-site you can claim there is no dichotomy.

xrays could have given cancer to the people conducting the treatments. Using
fear, xrays should have never been used for anything.

Is it worth the risk that doctors using xrays might get cancer to save some
patients?

Is it worth the risk of giving a patient cancer just because they might have a
10% chance of a life threatening injury.

If you look at all clichéd stuffups with technology their kill rates are tiny,
often like DDT they saved many many lives.

Now take all the things people get scared of - TV, Mobile phones, electricity
towers, chemicals(What ever this means).

Mobile phones perhaps should only be used for emergencies in case they are
cancer causing. Imaging how many 3rd world people would die if we made the
decision.

------
aaron695
This stuff seriously seems like a game changer. Could be all hype but if it's
legit I think it'll be huge.

Never having to clean the toilet again in itself would be amazing. Cost
reductions in business here alone is significant.

Anti graffiti capabilities would make it huge for government applications. On
park benches etc keeping communal equipment from ageing. The whole cleaning
industry could be changed.

Waterproofing electronics.

Hygiene in hospitals might save many, many lives.

I do like living in the future.

~~~
GuiA
Anti-graffiti use is the first thing that sprung to my mind as well.

As you said, it may all be hype- but if it delivers, I suspect that the
company making it (UltraTech?) is going to have a nice few years ahead of it
:)

~~~
kaybe
How about making graffity with it in a rainy place? It could look very cool
and would be hidden most of the time.

~~~
ahelwer
An art student I know did this at my school (U of Calgary) about three years
ago. The design is invisible unless it rains or you splash a bucket of water
on the wall. It's also in a low-traffic area, so I don't think very many
people know about it.

~~~
kaybe
Is it still there / how long did it last?

------
tomkinstinch
For those curious about the composition of the hydrophobic coating, the FDA
and USDA guidance docs talk about the constituents:

[http://www.spillcontainment.com/sites/default/files/FDA%20an...](http://www.spillcontainment.com/sites/default/files/FDA%20and%20USDA%20approvals%2010-1-12.pdf)

It looks like it is fumed silica in carrier solvent with polyurethane
adhesive. The fumed silica is branded "Aerosil", and made by Evonik:

[https://www.aerosil.com/product/aerosil/en/products/hydropho...](https://www.aerosil.com/product/aerosil/en/products/hydrophobic-
fumed-silica/pages/default.aspx)

Interestingly, it looks like Avon has a patent that covers applying
hydrophobic Aerosil to keratin fibers (hair):

[http://www.google.com/patents/EP2293760A1?cl=en&dq=evoni...](http://www.google.com/patents/EP2293760A1?cl=en&dq=evonik+hydrophobic&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9T0WUbzZKZHviQLr3ICADQ&ved=0CDMQ6AEwADgU)

~~~
fennecfoxen
"[0025] As used herein, the term "keratin fiber" includes hair of the scalp,
eyelashes, eyebrows, facial hair, and body hair such as hair of the arms,
legs, etc. Keratin fibers are not limited to humans and also include any
keratin fibers from a mammal, such as, for example, pet hair and mammalian
fur."

I see. They've patented the waterproof dog. ;)

~~~
quandrum
Water proof cow?

No need for barns, they can't get wet

------
anigbrowl
The demo at about the 1:50 mark with the liquid gathered in the center of the
glass pane is mindblowing. The firs thting I thought of was using the
hydrophobic stuff as a mask for pcb fabrication using a copper sulphate
solution for the hydro part. That's probably pointless for the purpose, but it
seems like this would be an insanely useful manufacturing technology.

~~~
iamshs
Well wow. You know what? "We" already came upon this idea (the last sentence)
and you will be seeing something cool in about 5-7 years. :)

~~~
anigbrowl
OK, you do the product development, I'll file the inevitable patent lawsuit,
and we can both be famous!

~~~
iamshs
...and rich!

------
leeoniya
Useful for surfaces which only come in contact with liquids. Not so much for a
lot of stuff they demonstrate though, like hammer, gloves, boots, or generally
anything where the coating would rub off in less than half a day's work.

Also, how many construction workers are concerned with keeping their work
boots and gloves free of dirt stains? lol.

~~~
Anechoic
_how many construction workers are concerned with keeping their work boots and
gloves free of dirt stains_

Many actually, especially toward the completion of projects when interior
decorations are starting to be installed and the architect/owner/designer may
demand removal of boots to prevent workers from tracking dirt on freshly laid
carpet and flooring (I've seen this mostly on high-end residential but it also
happens on commercial projects).

~~~
anigbrowl
That sounds odd (removal of boots) to me since it compromises safety and
creates liability. Hardware and paint supply stores sell tough fabric bootees
that fit over regular workboots for this sort of situation.

------
jkat
Was curious what happened if you inhaled it. Nothing specific on their site,
but it does say:

    
    
        The coating has been found to be safe for use in nonfood contact areas 
        of food processing plants. The coating meets FDA and USDA regulations for those 
        types of applications.
    

Still curious.

~~~
akurilin
I remember seeing old videos of this tech used inside a ketchup bottle. I
wonder if we're going to see food-safe versions soon on products like
toothpaste and peanut butter :)

~~~
ricardobeat
That was MIT's "LiquiGlide"[1]. Theirs was created from food-safe materials.

[1] [http://www.fastcoexist.com/1679878/mits-freaky-non-stick-
coa...](http://www.fastcoexist.com/1679878/mits-freaky-non-stick-coating-
keeps-ketchup-flowing)

------
troymc
This reminds me of that spray you can buy at the shoe store. It does work, for
a while. Also see "LiquiGlide":

[http://www.fastcoexist.com/1679878/mits-freaky-non-stick-
coa...](http://www.fastcoexist.com/1679878/mits-freaky-non-stick-coating-
keeps-ketchup-flowing)

------
josscrowcroft
Watching the video one wonders whether they sprayed the "untreated" side of
the tests with a hydro _philic_ coating, to actively attract more liquid. Some
of those looked a bit _too_ sticky.

Guess we'll never know :)

------
gyom
Spray this inside your computer everywhere except at key places requiring
cooling (like on the top of the CPU). Flood the computer with water. Passive
silent cooling !

~~~
rosser
People are already doing immersive liquid cooling with oils. Distilled water
should be safe, too, as it's completely non-conductive.

EDIT: Follow-ups, thanks for the correction.

~~~
paxswill
Distilled water is a bad choice. While deionized water is non-conductive, it
can act as a solvent for so many things that almost any impurities it comes in
contact with will result in the water being made conductive.

------
goblin89
For reference, there's also NeverWet[0] (I recall seeing their ad a few years
ago) and MIT's ‘non-stick coating’ (has an HN thread[1]).

Apparently a few superhydrophobic coating solutions exist already. On the
first sight it looks like Ultra Ever Dry beat everyone in getting their
product to consumer market, though.

[0] <http://www.neverwet.com/>

[1] <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4010762>

------
Qantourisc
Wear, tear and abrasions is what will certainly reduce the possible area of
deployment. Unless this materials happens to be very resistant to abrasions.

------
JonahBraun
The comment about painting the boat reminds me of supercavitation
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercavitation> used to greatly increase speed
of some torpedos.

You could probably retain stability of the boat by painting stripes from front
to back. They would act similar to fins.

------
chemmail
I see a version of this every year. Still never seen it released commercially,
or even non commercially.

~~~
Jach
<http://www.ultraeverdrystore.com/products/> isn't a commercial release?
(Admittedly I didn't try ordering any.)

------
bambax
I so much want this...

The site the OP links to is called "Global Industrial" but the only country
available on the checkout page is "United States".

(Why they call themselves "global" is beyond me; why they need a select box
for only one option is further beyond.)

------
danmaz74
Something like that has been available for years in Germany. I'm wondering why
it didn't have the success I expected it to. <http://en.dienanoexperten.de/>

~~~
Kliment
They have no prices and no links to where you can buy things.

~~~
danmaz74
When I first saw them (it must have been more than a year ago) there was an
online shop, but I can't find it anymore. I also remember a discussion here in
HN about the safety of the material (which is basically glass, but with a new
configuration). I wonder what happened in the meantime.

EDIT: found it: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1092741>

------
ashokvarma2
I guess this is what it might have felt like when people first saw plastics.

~~~
magoon
and Bakelite

------
jonlarson
Like the article mentioned, coating a boat seems like it could be awesome. No
drag, zip through the water. If it does work like that, I'd imagine we'll also
start seeing it in competitive swim suits.

~~~
iamshs
It will reduce the drag, not eliminate it. Shark skin use this concept.

[http://www.beilstein-
journals.org/bjnano/content/pdf/2190-42...](http://www.beilstein-
journals.org/bjnano/content/pdf/2190-4286-2-9.pdf) A good introduction, and
from a journal without paywalls, and having quality papers on the subject.

------
atarian
If someone were to spray themselves with this and fall into a body of water
(pool, lake, ocean) wouldn't they drown? I would imagine that it would be very
difficult to swim.

~~~
Kliment
No, it'd be like wearing a thin layer of very smooth clothing. The effect is
only seen very close to the surface

~~~
RHSeeger
To be fair, when facing drowning, the "very close to the surface" part is the
part that matters.

------
Tautologistics
When they stuck the work gloves into water, the effect of the treated glove
looked exactly like Magic Sand. I loved playing with that hydrophobic stuff
when I was a kid:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1id-gHQjbs>

------
tekromancr
I want this on all of my clothes! How cool would that be? Never sweaty!

~~~
Volpe
well, no... you'd drip sweat.

~~~
tekromancr
Yea, it drips on the ground instead of soaking in and making me smell bad.
Worth it!

------
saalweachter
No home-owners in this thread? I'm thinking _roof and gutters_.

~~~
WalterBright
Well, gutters don't get clogged with water. They get physically clogged with
leaves and dirt. I don't think this coating would help at all with that.

~~~
saalweachter
They get clogged with snow & ice. I'm curious if a coating of this would let
the snow and ice flow off the roof and gutters instead of freezing to it.

------
cbsmith
Superhydrophobia is way cooler than hydrophobia.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabies>

------
darrenkopp
I wonder what that would be like on a car... Would you never have to clean it
again? How much water would that save in the U.S. from being wasted?

~~~
ajays
Only if you have a white car, though. From the specs, the color of the coating
is a translucent white, so that pretty much eliminates possible use on any
other paint than white.

<http://www.ultraeverdrystore.com/products/>

------
thomasrambaud
Very interesting technology, known since more than 10 years now and widespread
in 2007-8 on the WWW.

I guess many applications will be found in every day life.

------
yangyang
Reminded me of this: <http://liquidglassshield.com/>, which looks very
similar.

------
ch
Clark Griswold would be impressed.

------
khet
Can someone buy this and do a comprehensive review?

------
usaphp
This is how Michael Phelps won his Olympic medals?

------
Evbn
So, we don't know what it is, how it works, or if the ad is fake, but this is
worthy of the NPR banner? It's like they use the label "blog" to mean "BS link
bait crap".

We expect better from NPR.

~~~
mattdeboard
Robert Krulwich is one of their pop-science journalists/bloggers, this is
pretty much what he does. He's one of the co-hosts of RadioLab, an
entertaining pop-sci radio show on NPR. I think you're disappointed because
this is the first time you've been able to recognize pop science reporting for
what it is.

------
Evbn
Headline directly contradicts safety advice in the article. Bad NPR.

------
dakimov
That's amazing.

Finally such a thing has been invented. That's the future. I'm looking forward
for other incredible nanomaterials.

