
Apple needs to change iPhone’s call UI because robocalls are killing us - spenvo
https://spencerdailey.com/2018/12/26/in-2019-apple-needs-to-change-iphones-call-ui-because-robocalls-are-killing-us/
======
awakeasleep
"At the telelphony-infrastructure level, it’s a supremely difficult problem
that lacks a short-term fix because the underlying protocol is hopelessly
insecure."

This is only partly true. Technologically the solution is difficult, but it's
easy from the social side as carriers can blacklist the smaller carriers that
allow this fraud to take place.

The real problem is that everyone except the consumer benefits from this.
Every phone company in the chain from the scammer to you takes a penny out of
the scammer's profits.

At this point these scam phone calls may be nearing the majority of the phone
calls placed in the USA, so it's going to be a huge financial disruption to
the carriers when they have to give up their game.

~~~
ac29
There already is a proposed technological solution to this:
[https://transnexus.com/whitepapers/stir-and-shaken-
overview/](https://transnexus.com/whitepapers/stir-and-shaken-overview/)

The FCC has recently "demanded" US telecoms to implement this [0], but at this
point I don't believe there is actually a regulatory requirement to do so.

[0]
[https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-354933A1.pdf](https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-354933A1.pdf)

~~~
amluto
I prefer an economic solution. Currently, you can sue a robocaller under the
TCPA, but good luck collecting. Make each carrier liable for judgments against
robocallers routed through their network. So, if I sue John Doe for
robocalling me and I can’t collect, and I’m a Verizon customer, the make
Verizon liable for those damages. This should come with some limits, but they
should be large (say 10% of nationwide annual revenue, and there could
plausibly be a limit per carrier that routes to Verizon). This liability
should be unaffected by any terms in Verizon’s contracts with its customers
(e.g. arbitration clauses), and telcos should not be able to penalize their
customers in any way for collecting.

I bet that a law like this would get the problem fixed _fast_.

~~~
abakker
i bet that instead, you'd just get a new contract in which verizon decided
that it was only free to talk to other verizon numbers, and would require you
to pay extra to call outside the network. Then, they'd ask you to provide a
birth certificate, SSN, CC number, and pay via direct deposit to have an
account. if you want to penalize rob dialers, don't penalize companies that
are not robodialing, or push the burden of law enforcement on them.

~~~
amluto
Huh? Those robocalls are not originated on Verizon cellphones. A contract like
that would do _nothing_ to reduce Verizon’s liability, but it would certainly
help drive customers elsewhere.

~~~
abakker
The point is that they would not do anything to reduce the calls, instead,
they would erode your freedoms and charge you more to pay the fines.

------
mikestew
AFAIK, it's still the case that I can't block everything _but_ numbers in my
contacts, right? That's all I'm asking, and it can't be that hard. Add that
simple feature that should have been there ten years ago and the problem is
solved for me.

~~~
javery
You can do this, just set your phone to Do Not Disturb and then set it to
"allow calls from my contacts"

~~~
mikestew
I've seen that, but doesn't it take SMS/iMessages with it? IOW, I won't be
notified of messages no matter who sends it? Regardless, it's just phone calls
I want to block, I don't get enough spam SMS to care about who is sending it.

I guess I'm going to have to fiddle around with when the wife gets home and
gather some empirical evidence.

~~~
stock_toaster
> I've seen that, but doesn't it take SMS/iMessages with it?

Indeed it does, which makes it a non-solution for me. I apparently have the
same desire you do - an option for voice calls to go direct to voicemail
unless they are in my favorites list, without having to use the more general
Do Not Disturb mode.

------
jchw
Fwiw, Android actually does do this. When the phone is unlocked, calls show up
as a banner. In addition, they added that new call screening option, I've been
using it and so far it has worked fairly well. Also, there is some built-in
call filtering and third party apps as well, though I have mostly been able to
rely on the built-in filtering.

Does iOS really not have _any_ options for filtering? I swear last time I had
an iPhone (running iOS9) there was Something... but then again, I was
jailbroken.

It's a bit funny that we got full web browsers on phones before proper call
filtering.

(Disclaimer: I work for Google but not on phones.)

~~~
spenvo
Excellent, I'll add this to the article. No idea why my post went from #1 on
HN to the third page in under 30 minutes, I thought we were having a fruitful
discussion here

~~~
hu3
Not sure if this has been mentioned but Android's DnD mode allows granular
settings including blocking non-contact calls:
[https://i.imgur.com/ZcRSXlK.png](https://i.imgur.com/ZcRSXlK.png)

------
btilly
I actually would like a regulatory solution for this.

Mandate a way for me to say whether incoming calls were spam. Require my phone
company to pay me money every time I get spammed. Allow my phone company to,
at their option, proactively block calls from specific upstreams and/or pass
the charge to the specific upstreams.

Now from those incentives, the fines will naturally follow the upstreams to
the source of the spam, and provide motivation for them to clean their acts
up. Voila! (And if telephone companies decide that they need a more secure
protocol to make spamming harder, that's up to them.)

~~~
Reason077
_”I actually would like a regulatory solution for this.”_

The UK has a solution. It does actually work, mostly:

[https://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/index.html](https://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/index.html)

~~~
sofaofthedamned
It doesn't work, and i'm in the UK too. Bad actors simply ditch their LTD Co
when they eventually get a small fine and some use it as a whitelist of active
numbers to use. IIRC there was an idea about making directors of companies who
flout this personally responsible, I wonder if this happened?

~~~
orf
It works great. I get about 2 calls a year now, and just saying "I'm on the
no-call registry" makes them hang up really fast.

------
thatswrong0
I would love to be able to block all numbers coming from my area code and the
first 3 digits of my number.. all my robo calls come from a number that looks
just like mine.

~~~
bduerst
Or send to Google Assistant screening. It's the best feature ever but they
need to open it up to rules for automation (i.e. all unknown numbers from XXX
area code).

~~~
sixothree
The last thing I want to give google is access to all of my phone call data. I
just want to reduce my footprint with that company.

~~~
bduerst
Audio, transcript, and other call screen data is stored locally on your phone,
not sent to Google or anywhere else:
[https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/9094888](https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/9094888)

It really is a nice little feature.

------
rb666
In The Netherlands we have a "no-call register" for companies
([https://business.gov.nl/regulation/telesales/#article-do-
not...](https://business.gov.nl/regulation/telesales/#article-do-not-call-me-
register))

I never get robocalls. It's nice to live in a country that believes in smart
regulation!

~~~
gambiting
Yep. And live in UK and have never received a single spam call. I don't
understand why it's such a large problem in US.

~~~
vsl
You’re just lucky. I was too. Then my number got on some spam list and now I’m
receiving a few calls a month (which is still something many Americans would
consider great, I’m sure) - from random locations all over Europe. The spammer
is effectively unreachable by local regulations.

------
troydavis
The eventual fix will be adopting ATIS SHAKEN and STIR protocols, which is,
very roughly, signed caller ID. The FCC is now demanding it of carriers:

[https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-354933A1.pdf](https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-354933A1.pdf)
(Background and open letters to carriers:
[https://www.fcc.gov/document/chairman-pai-demands-
industry-a...](https://www.fcc.gov/document/chairman-pai-demands-industry-
adopt-protocols-end-illegal-spoofing))

How it works, short version: [https://transnexus.com/blog/2017/stop-spoofed-
robocalls-with...](https://transnexus.com/blog/2017/stop-spoofed-robocalls-
with-stir-and-shaken/)

How it works, long version:
[http://www.atis.org/01_resources/whitepapers/#shaken-
studies](http://www.atis.org/01_resources/whitepapers/#shaken-studies) (find
in page for “SHAKEN” and “Caller ID”)

~~~
sofaofthedamned
Apologies for not reading through these links, but does this fix just the
caller-id issue, or the routing issue - i.e. routing an SMS to a bad actor?

~~~
Rjevski
Just caller ID, and even then it seems like it’s between service providers
only - you have to trust your carrier to validate signatures and reject
bad/missing ones.

------
fxj
robocalls are illegal in germany. They are called unerlaubte Telefonwerbung
and one energy company got fined with 140.000 euros.

[https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/DE/Sachgebiete/Telekommunik...](https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/DE/Sachgebiete/Telekommunikation/Verbraucher/UnerlaubteTelefonwerbung/unerlaubtetelefonwerbung-
node.html)

FTA: After the E wie Einfach GmbH had found agencies for the advertising
measures, obviously no more control took place. Therefore the E.ON daughter is
occupied now with a fine of 140.000 euro. Because as a client of the call
actions it must guarantee the adherence to the legal principles. This includes
above all that in each individual case an explicit consent of the consumers is
present. The client is responsible for this, even if the telephone calls are
carried out by subcontractors. However, the decision of the Federal Network
Agency is not yet legally binding: the electricity supplier can appeal the
fine in court.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

[https://www.e-recht24.de/news/telekommunikation/10928-unerla...](https://www.e-recht24.de/news/telekommunikation/10928-unerlaubte-
telefonwerbung-140-000-euro-strafe-fuer-energieversorger.html)

~~~
anticensor
> unerlaubte Telefonwerbung

"Illegal phone advertising" for those do not speak German.

------
carlospwk
I have no idea what a robocall is but I would LOVE a simple notification
banner for when someone calls. I rarely get calls these days but when I do,
it’s a major annoyance if I’m doing something on my phone. It’s time calls are
relegated to the same level of urgency as WhatsApp messages and emails.

~~~
redisman
I just gotta say it's funny that receiving a phone call on your phone is a
major annoyance these days.

~~~
chime
I know what you mean but it wasn't funny when I was recording my kid at his
first birthday party and got interrupted by a robocall just seconds before he
cut the cake. From that day, I've learned to put the phone on DND mode before
recording anything memorable.

~~~
balladeer
What I don’t understand is why Apple isn’t fixing this.

It’s simple - it’s broken UI, Android has done it, people want it, it doesn’t
help in any way, so why keep it? I mean why? Hell, if you really want to keep
it, give an option to disable it.

------
fergbrain
T-Mobile has a feature that uses the Caller ID to display “Scam
Likely”...which is a great stopgap measure and doesn’t cost me extra.

~~~
bubblethink
That got me thinking. I haven't seen that message in a while, but I've moved
from regular android to AOSP. I wonder if that scam likely CID needs some
google play support ?

~~~
kkarakk
google play has plenty of apps that keep track of robocalls via third party
solutions. truecaller is an app i used when i was in india getting inundated
by robocalls.

~~~
bubblethink
Right, I meant google play services. AOSP phone app, while quite similar to
the stock google phone app, doesn't include this feature.

------
code4tee
Because my phone number is not from where I actually live and most of these
robocallers fake a number from your local exchange, seeing a number that looks
like mine pop up basically tells me right away it’s a robocall since nobody
calls me from that exchange. Whole thing is still incredibly annoying though
and problem is getting worse.

------
izacus
I never get robocalls in Europe - what's different here? Why does USA have
this huge problem with spam calls and most of Europe doesn't? Is spam blocking
on OS level really the right approach to fix this problem?

~~~
diebeforei485
> Why does USA have this huge problem with spam calls and most of Europe
> doesn't?

Presumably because (1) it's much easier to find English speakers in countries
where most robocalls actually originate, and (2) the same model can scale to
320M recipients with very little marginal effort.

~~~
nicky0
Surely in Germany robocallers woul call people in German.

~~~
thirdsun
That was the point of the parent poster. Why bother with german and other much
less common languages when you could just target a de facto global language
that both your victims as well as those responsible for those scams know?

------
dgzl
As an Android user, I'm kind of shocked that the iPhone doesn't do this, and
I'll say that the banner UI is decently better. Though I'm not going to lie, I
still think we can do better, and I wouldn't doubt that Apple would just opt
for the next generation UI instead of following Android's suit.

Sometimes I wonder what subtle differences there are between the two
ecosystems, as I've never really gotten into Apple products before, with the
exception of a few earlier iPods. Does anyone have confirmed differences that
the other side might not understand?

------
philliphaydon
We don't have this problem in Singapore.

[https://www.dnc.gov.sg/index.html](https://www.dnc.gov.sg/index.html)

We have this do not call list. Once added, calls, texts, etc, drop to like
nothing. Infact I cannot remember the last time I had a call... I get the
occasional text message but it's mostly shops telling me to use my store
points before a certain date. A reminder.

~~~
huehehue
We have one of those in the US, but most (99%) of the automated calls I
receive are not from legitimate enterprises.

~~~
mrweasel
Also the US is a much larger target, it's 300 million people that are almost
guaranteed to speak English. Targeting countries like Denmark, The Netherlands
or other countries where you'd basically need hire native speaker it's
financially viable (That's not to say that the problem doesn't exist in these
countries, just at a much smaller scale).

~~~
philliphaydon
Singapore speaks English as a first language.

Sounds like the problem is to do with not honoring the do not call list and no
punishment for those who don't honor it. Here companies are fined if they call
people who are on the list.

------
snowwrestler
My solution to robocalls is to answer them and then be totally silent. After a
few seconds, they disconnect.

The number of robocalls I receive has plummeted since I started doing this. I
receive hardly any these days. My theory is that due to silent answers, the
autodialers eventually mark the number as bad, or as a machine-answered
number. I have no proof of this, though.

~~~
jen729w
I answer and have fun pretending that I’m a lunatic. I generally get hung up
on within a minute, and at least that minute is a bit of fun.

~~~
gojomo
I do this sometimes too. It seems like an ethical way to have somewhat the
same sort of fun as old-fashioned crank calls.

------
gumby
Apple provides a fix: get an Apple Watch and make your phone silent. Then you
get a notification on your watch which you can suppress by placing your hand
over it.

I make this comment in jest because obviously this is a very user-unfriendly
"solution" unless you planned to buy an apple watch for some other reason.
However I do use this feature.

As for the post's comment that dismissing the call leaks info: I don't know
what the predictive dialers have any understanding of this -- if you simply
refuse to answer it's simply a disconnect. I also doubt they keep stats on
calls that go to vmail, if you accidentally do that or if you refuse to
answer.

~~~
lsc
I have an apple watch... it doesn't solve the problem that if I answer a call
that is not from a contact, it is 9/10ths spam, so I simply don't answer calls
not on my contact list, and thus sometimes miss important calls from
businesses that don't text.

------
pndy
I'm from Poland and while I never experienced a robocall, I have to deal with
telemarketers every now and then because someone somewhere shared my number
against my will and while in theory the caller is obligated to disclosure how
my number landed in its company database, they're often hanging up in second
they're asked or pulling the "it was randomly selected" bullshit, and
recently, after GDPR they're giving premium-rated phone numbers claiming
that's how you can exclude your number from database which obviously doesn't
work.

While singing contract for fiber connection, I had to repeat few times that I
want to opt-out almost losing nerves talking with agent saying that I'm
_really_ not interested having telemarketers clogging my phone even if that
means I'll miss a chance to win something - because that's how she tried to
advertise that. I could either allow those calls for 5 PLN less on my bill or
opt-out for same amount added to it and I did choose the latter.

Anyway, there are sites and apps which are trying to "rate" calling numbers
and warn other people - most of the times they do good job.

------
hi41
The other problem is with using third party navigational apps. While driving
the phone app takes up the whole screen completely obscuring the directions.
My wife constantly rejects calls because of this and I can’t talk to her!

~~~
saagarjha
You can switch apps while in a call.

~~~
xnyan
Hurtling down the interstate at 70+ mph and I also tend to mash the big red
button when I get a call and need my direction.

------
Keverw
Also when you take a video and someone calls it ends the video recording -
even if you don't decide to answer. So you have to put your phone into
airplane mode, which sucks because if you lost your phone before remembering
to turn it off then find my iPhone wouldn't work... I wish there was some sort
of option to not disturb while doing video... Something you could toggle on
and off.

~~~
londons_explore
Get a better 'Phone' app. It's replaceable, and many have truly silent modes
for some callers only which won't interrupt anything you're doing.

------
tokyodude
I would like to see this solved via a little regulation and tech industry
cooperation that basically discards the entire phone system.

Problems that need solving

* Robocalls

* Companies using SMS for 2FA

* Companies still using phone numbers as part of my ID all. I'd much prefer companies contact me first via email/secure-text (whatsapp/line/messenger/...) and only later via secure voip

I feel like Google/Apple/Microsoft/Facebook whoever should basically design a
new standard to replace the phone system and the government should then
mandate that companies must support it (no more asking for phone numbers)

I'm sure there are lots of issues. I don't want one id to reach me, like email
I want multiple IDs and if you want to know the ID I give you is me then send
me a confirmation (I can crypto-sign it if need be)

I'm sure it's easier said than done but it does seem like it's getting to the
point phone numbers are basically as useless as fax machines. Most people call
me via Line, Hangouts, FB, Facetime, etc.. No one calls via phone number

------
seanwilson
> And disrupt they do, at a massive scale. Several billion fake calls are
> received each month in the US. Reports show this is a global problem, with
> Brazilians averaging 37 spam calls per month. Actually, I’m getting a
> robocall as I type this very sentence, my second today.

Is there a reason this isn't as prevalent in the UK? I get maybe 2 calls a
month like this. Are robocallers in the UK more likely to get in trouble
maybe? Putting this on Apple isn't addressing the core of the problem.

------
thosakwe
I would love:

Auto-hang up on any call from someone who's number I don't have saved. Just
give me a notification immediately thereafter. If it's someone I should know,
I'll either have their number saved, or be expecting it. I don't want to be
bothered otherwise.

~~~
rsync
This, and many, many other interesting use-cases is quite simple if you port
your number to Twilio and create your own carrier inside their service.

I did this about 18 months ago and _love the results_. I manipulate and use
the telephone network in many useful and interesting ways, all
programatically, through twilio.

------
rdlecler1
It’s not clear to me why Apple can’t have a Mark as Spam button for calls.
Once you hit a critical mass from independent iPhones you simply block that
number.

~~~
reefoctopus
They’re spoofing the numbers so that would likely cause apple to blacklist
numbers belonging to innocent people.

~~~
rdlecler1
A lot of them aren’t.

------
mortenjorck
Since the phone companies are too busy trying to build content empires rather
than working to improve their core competencies, it's time for Apple to step
up the call-blocking experience at the OS level.

The addition of a call-blocking API was a very good first step, but the time
is fast arriving when robust blocking patterns will be table stakes similar to
what basic email spam filtering is today.

~~~
elsonrodriguez
I'd give it a year before they buy someone like Hiya.

------
Bud
Or we could actually fix the problem and make the do-not-call list laws much
stronger and put some enforcement behind them.

------
JumpCrisscross
> _I would love to be able to block all numbers coming from my area code and
> the first 3 digits of my number.. all my robo calls come from a number that
> looks just like mine_

Somewhat humorously, this has destroyed my ability to receive phone calls from
my home town. I instinctively hang up and block.

------
elbelcho
Check out Google's call screening feature available on their Pixel phones
[https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/9118387?hl=en](https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/9118387?hl=en)

~~~
amelius
That's nice for keeping marketeers out, but meanwhile you're sharing all your
info with the largest advertiser on the planet ...

~~~
oh_sigh
No it doesn't:

[https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/9118387?hl=en](https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/9118387?hl=en)

> Call Screen doesn't save to your Google Account, your Google Assistant
> Activity page, or to Web and App Activity.

------
elliekelly
This annoyance is three-fold when a call from your iPhone also takes over your
iPad screen and rings on your MacBook.

~~~
bradleyankrom
I turned off the feature that shows calls on my MacBook because of this. It's
nice that the UI shows "Scam Likely" as the caller, but maybe give me an
option to filter out those calls entirely? Let them go to voicemail or
something... who is answering the phone when the caller is unknown and
identified by the UI as "Scam Likely"?

~~~
traek
That's a T-Mobile feature, not an Apple feature, and you can change your
settings to block the calls instead of just ID'ing them.

[https://www.t-mobile.com/resources/call-
protection](https://www.t-mobile.com/resources/call-protection)

~~~
bradleyankrom
Awesome, thanks. I enabled it. That should cut down on at least ~40% of the
junk calls I get.

------
pocketstar
imo the best way to combat this is to answer the call and waste as much of the
scammers time as possible. Call spamming only scales because most people
ignore or hangup immediately. If you waste 30seconds of a scammers time thats
30 more people they cant call. And that 30 seconds costs THEM money. I just
answer say “hi” to start the recording and leave the phone on my desk until
they hangup. Perhaps i dont completely understand the backend but if more
people wasted the scammers time it would quickly become too expensive for them
to continue.

~~~
ap3
How much is your time worth vs the robocallers ?

~~~
quicklime
When I was getting robocalls a while back, I started saying "hi" and letting
them talk, then I'd put the phone on mute and continue whatever I was doing.
The calls stopped a few weeks after that. Usually this would take about 10
seconds of my time, and about 90 seconds of theirs, per call.

I'm pretty sure that over the long term, it costs me less time as it made the
problem completely go away.

Things that I'd tried before that, that didn't work, include: immediately
hanging up, politely and no-so-politely asking them not to call back.

------
org3432
So the garbage dump we call a USPS mailbox doesn't rise to the same level of
concern for some reason still?

~~~
javagram
The USPS mailbox can be consumed asynchronously.

Isn’t it possible to opt out of a lot of bulk mail anyway? Bulk mail can never
be as bad as online spam since it’s much more expensive to mail and easier to
trace a sender.

~~~
org3432
It's effectively the same as opting out of these robo calls, there's a FTC
list for both and yet it has zero effect. I also get 99.9% junk mail, so it's
easy to lose actual mail in the pile.

------
tonyquart
I have a suggestion. If you receive robocalls from legit companies, I think
you can try to sue them. I read an article about this at
[https://www.whycall.me/news/consumer-wins-
massive-229500-rob...](https://www.whycall.me/news/consumer-wins-
massive-229500-robocall-lawsuit-against-time-warner-cable/). If those
robocalls are coming from scammers, then you could just ignore those calls.
There's no way we can stop them, anyway.

------
cityzen
About a year ago I put my phone on DND and have left it on ever since. My wife
and the kids school are in my favorites so they can get through. If I have to
make business calls I will initiate the call or just remember to turn it off
if I get a calendar reminder for an incoming call. Maybe it will bite me in
the ass at some point but it has been really nice to feel like I actually have
some control of my phone again.

~~~
jerkstate
Same here. I also changed my outgoing voicemail message to say that I don't
pick up unknown numbers so if you're a real person, leave a voicemail or text
me. The voicemail transcription feature on my iphone is rudimentary but works
well enough to see at a glance if a voicemail is a sales call or robocall.

~~~
cityzen
Yea, it's funny how the fear of missing out makes people put up with so much
bullshit in their lives. I don't use Facebook, I don't use Twitter, I don't
deal with robocalls. I am not missing out on anything other than the high
price of not missing out.

------
paul7986
Just let me have a phone where only my contacts get to ring it.

For those like doctor offices and others who need to reach you make them go to
voicemail.

~~~
baddox
Honestly it blows my mind when I’m with someone who _answers_ their phone when
it rings with an unknown number. I have literally never done that, save for a
handful of occasions where I’m expecting a call. It’s hard to imagine a
scenario where it would be someone you would want to talk to.

------
akerl_
Apple added hooks a while back so that 3rd party apps can interject into the
call process, and I've been using [https://hiya.com](https://hiya.com) to do
that and block scam calls.

I have it set to disregard suspected scam/fraud calls, so they never ring my
phone.

------
intopieces
I’ve completely turned off notifications for the phone. If someone wants to
call me, they either need to use FaceTime (which hasn’t been overrun with
spam, yet) or schedule a time with me. I also subscribe a call blocker.

~~~
basilgohar
How would someone without an Appke device or AppleID get in touch with you
realtime? If all friends and family are already part of the Apple ecosystem,
then okay for now, but you also would basically be filtering your
communications to only people that fit that description in the future, as
well.

~~~
intopieces
People without Apple IDs can’t call me without texting first. I don’t get
calls over FaceTime except from my parents anyway, everyone just texts, either
iMessages or Signal.

------
nojvek
In India I got a Vodafone sim. Data was dirt cheap. $1.5 for 6GB of data.

However Vodafone would spam the shit out of everyone. Getting 10+ spammy calls
in a day is very normal. They come from different numbers so you can’t block
them.

Any phone that has a serious robocall spam filter mechanism built in would be
a huge seller.

I can count on Apple to make such a bold move. I remember when Telcos used to
block personal hotspots and Apple just gave them a middle finger and made
iPhones only available to providers that would play by their rules and not the
other way around.

We need more bold and human centric companies.

------
rvanmil
It's not just robocalls, but any app that uses CallKit. It annoys me to no end
that apps like WhatsApp can take over my entire phone with a call and I am
unable to disable that like I can with notifications.

------
turingbook
In China, most Android users have native feature or Apps which can block
harassing calls. And every user can label the new unidentified bad call
numbers. The crowdsourcing model works well.

------
VectorLock
I don't know hardly anything about telephony protocols, SS7, etc but I'm
curious how much information carriers know about where information originates.

Say I wanted to run a service offering phone numbers that can connect to VOIP
or an app, where I connect to the global telephone network. How much
information can I get at the lowest protocol level about where a call
originates from? Can I tell the system the call came from? The country?

~~~
Rjevski
You connect to other carriers directly. Some of them will connect you to other
carriers, and so on.

So for example if you’re a small operation you will just connect to one
carrier like Twilio or Nexmo and it’s up to them to connect you to everyone
else.

When you get bigger you may be able to set up “routes” (that’s how they’re
called in the industry) to carriers directly.

So yes, carriers do see where the calls are coming from, however given that
it’s commonplace to route your calls through a carrier that has no
relationship to the originating number, there’s no easy way to tell whether a
number is spoofed or not.

There is a solution which is to respond to complaints and stop interconnecting
with a carrier that spews too much garbage, but that would go against the
entire industry’s business model so nobody cares to do it.

------
syakhmi
I got fed up enough to set up custom call filtering with Twilio just this week
(sadly neither the iPhone nor Google Voice allows filtering calls to contacts
only).
[https://github.com/syakhmi/spamkiller](https://github.com/syakhmi/spamkiller)

There are good reasons why WhatsApp and the like are replacing phone calls in
many countries.

------
kuschku
Isn't this exactly what Android already does?

~~~
smelendez
Yes, Android has improved on this front.

It now treats incoming calls and voicemails basically like any notification
and ongoing calls like any other app with an active notification.

------
matte_black
The idea of a phone call taking up an entire screen and interrupting your
activity hearkens back to the days when Apple emphasized that the iPhone
should still be prioritized as a phone first. Clearly, people have evolved to
richer forms of communication, and phone calls should not be put up on such a
high pedestal.

------
briandear
If you are in the “middle of a gaming experience” set to Do Not Disturb and
set the option to allow calls from favorites. Meaning, if you are in a
situation where a phone call is disruptive, then Do Not Disturb solves that
completely, with the option of allowing favorites to get through.

------
nyjah
_Tapping Decline is not a great option because it actually tells the
robocaller that you’re with your phone and are annoyed by the call,
information I’d rather not give._

Call me paranoid, but I take it a step further and absolutely believe whatever
cold call company is calling knows when my phone is moving, or I am around it.
I am the type of person that doesn't carry their phone all the time, I usually
keep it in my home and work in barn next door, but I notice I don't have many
missed called from bullshit numbers. Not saying all, but the majority of these
calls are coming when I am around my phone. Anyone else experience anything
like this?

edit: lol to ianlevesque quick paranoid response, but start paying attention I
dont think its too far fetched. I imagine some code that has some sort of
delay to wait for the phone to move or what so long after it is moved to then
start to ring. Its not like there is anyone on the other line half the time or
it will just hang up. I dont understand robocalls at all.

~~~
ianlevesque
Yes, you are paranoid.

~~~
tefferon
no, I think OP is on to something here

~~~
fjp
No I work in telecom and he's not onto anything. It's technically impossible
for one, and the ROI wouldn't be there even if it was.

The ROI on spray and pray is high enough. (EDIT: Not as high as like actual
legit telecommunications services but it takes a tiny fraction of the
expertise.) Literally all the information they need is your phone number. They
just spoof the "from" number, often to appear to be a toll-free number or a
number in your area code and crank out as many calls as their carriers will
let them without shutting them down. The underlying costs are cheap enough
where only a teeeeensy percentage of people have to fall for it for it to be
worth it.

------
robmiller
It's amazing that calendar invitation spam isn't more prevalent. The times it
has happened to me have been incredibly infuriating because declining means a
response to the spammer and ignoring can leave it on your calendar.

~~~
Anechoic
If using a recent version of Apple's calendar, you should get a "decline but
don't notify" option.

Another workaround is to make a new calendar, transfer that appointment to the
new calendar, and then delete that calendar.

It shouldn't be necessary, but here we are.

------
Waterluvian
So what's the trick? I've had the same cell number for a decade and I get zero
unwanted calls a year. Is it just luck or am I accidentally doing something
that keeps my number from being spammed?

~~~
basilgohar
While I don't get zero, I get far fewer than most others commenting here
(50+/day!). My wife, on the otherhand, gets more than I do.

I sometimes somewhat arrogantly think it's because I have been more careful
about giving our my info to untrustworthy sources, not using Facebook, myriad
"phone/contact-sucking" apps like Line, Imo, WhatsApp, etc. that others in my
family do/have, but then again, I finally caved and started using WhatsApp
while abroad due to it being literally as or more important than a traditional
line – many services here have WhatsApp-only numbers. I think I've finally
lost the battle.

------
brian_herman__
I use callblocking software to mitigate this robokiller. It costs 2.99 per
month but I get signifiantly less robo calls and it allows you to put custom
answer messages for the robo calls.

------
dmart
I agree with the author's premise, and would go even go further and say that
nothing should ever be able to steal focus from a user's active application.
Ever. In any OS.

------
TrainedMonkey
Mr. Number does a pretty food job of blocking known robocallers and
'neighborhood' callers.

------
EamonnMR
Maybe we should junk the telephone system.

------
vernie
No it doesn't. No they aren't.

------
fitzroy
I'd like an option similar to the old answering machine / secretary screening
for unknown callers: 1\. A voice assistant says to the caller "may I ask who's
calling [records response] and what is your call in reference to [records
response]?"

2\. Siri announces the call to me if the phone is not set to Not Disturb mode.

3\. I accept the call or decline. If I decline, Siri gives the caller the
option to leave an additional message.

TL;DR Caller states their name and business before I pick up.

~~~
illnewsthat
This is almost exactly what Google is doing.

[https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/16/18098714/google-
assistan...](https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/16/18098714/google-assistant-
spam-call-screening-pixel-2-xl)

> ...you can tap the “screen call” button. Google Assistant will then alert
> the caller that you’re using a screening service and that you’ll receive a
> copy of the conversation. From then, you can choose to pick up the call,
> hang up, or block the number.

~~~
fitzroy
Oh, that's great (and now I feel validated that my feature requests aren't
crazy). Google definitely seems to be ahead in layering on top of traditional
telephony to fix the limitations. I've used a Google Voice number for ages for
this kind of stuff, and basically just never answer it.

------
forgotmyacc
Spam has been solved by Bitcoin and email. It's called Proof of work.

------
bassman9000
_Right now, any robocall hacker in the world can instantly take over your
phone’s screen, knocking you out of your mobile gaming experience, disrupting
you as you check out at the store, or breaking your concentration as you try
and type out an email._

jesus christ, call james bond, this is a super-villain grade world domination
issue

------
deckar01
It is a phone. If you need uninterrupted productivity, use any other type of
personal computing device.

~~~
dextersgenius
> It is a phone. If you need uninterrupted productivity, use any other type of
> personal computing device.

Phones have stopped being just phones for a while now. Modern smartphones are
full fledged computing devices and are a key productivity tool for many users.

Personally I hardly even use the phone feature to justify calling my device a
phone. I make maybe one or two traditional phone calls a month, as most of my
day-to-day communications is done over the Internet.

~~~
BerislavLopac
With VoLTE and wi-fi calls, even the majority of my phone calls are
technically over the Internet.

