
Mac OS X.7 "Lion" preview - requinot59
http://www.apple.com/macosx/lion/
======
jcw
It's obvious how much the design of the iPad/iPhone OS has informed this. It's
very 'app' centric, which is funny to me because the public's perception of
what an 'app' is is pretty weird.

You'd have a hard time describing what a program or an application is to
someone, but if you said the word 'app' they'd immediately know what you are
talking about, because apps are these little icons that live on their phone.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone looking at Launchpad for the first time
would be surprised that their macbook "has apps now", even though they are
looking at the same applications that have already been on their mac for
months.

'App' is definitely a better term than 'application' or 'program' from a UI
perspective if more people can so easily understand it, but I don't understand
why or how this happened. They're the same thing! It's strange.

~~~
dangrover
I wrote a post about this a while back:
[http://dangrover.com/2010/05/29/indie-developers-and-
crossin...](http://dangrover.com/2010/05/29/indie-developers-and-crossing-the-
app-store-chasm/)

    
    
      When I speak of the triumph of the app, I don't mean it as a synonym for
      "program." That definition has become archaic.
      
       I'm talking about "the app" as the unit of software in popular perception.
      It is the monad. It is the atom. It is the cell. It is the brick.
      
       Software is abstract. An app is concrete.
      
       Apps obey basic laws. You can install or uninstall their functionality
      completely. Apps are indivisible. Apps do not come with other apps, they
      stand alone. Apps do not touch other apps' data without being allowed.
      
       In short, the term "app" could best be defined, more broadly, as the
      finest, most granular level of control over the computing experience that
      most users can consistently and comfortably exercise.

~~~
moultano
It's amazing how far desktop machines have been from dragging and dropping
icons to install/uninstall software. OSX was the closest to this I think, and
hopefully they'll get closer? I tend to just assume now that the longer I have
a desktop machine, the more miscellaneous bits of old programs will be
scattered throughout the system.

~~~
dangrover
Well, what's nice about the way OS X does it is that dragging the icon isn't a
proxy for a bunch of magical installing/uninstalling. You're literally
dragging the app from one location in the filesystem to another.

But I think the iOS model is good too because the abstraction is not leaky (in
the same way that package managers and and installer/uninstallers on windows
are)

~~~
sshumaker
In theory. But in fact, many apps do leave stuff behind, even when you delete
them out of your applications directory. Hence the need for programs like
AppZapper.

~~~
hexley
I wouldn't say there's a need...

------
generalk
I'm seriously underwhelmed here. There's four new features on that page:

 __The Mac App Store __

Maybe this is a naive point of view, but I can't see the value proposition for
third-party devs to have their software in this store. Maybe I'm wrong and
it'll be huge.

 __Launchpad __

A touch interface for a screen that isn't touchable. Anyone I know that
doesn't use Quicksilver or Spotlight uses an application stack in the dock.
Nifty eye-candy feature, but I'm not seeing the usability gains.

 __Full Screen Apps __

Not bad, but there are _very few_ applications I want to run fullscreen at
all, and even fewer I want to run fullscreen all the time.

 __Mission Control __

Exposé, except there's a spaces overview at the top. A minor feature bump. Oh,
and you can access the dashboard with it.

I understand this is a preview intended to excite people who aren't geeks, but
still, it just seems so anticlimactic.

~~~
cookiecaper
The "full screen apps" thing is a minor enhancement imo. Everything that was
interested in full-screen already has it baked in; I never full-screened
Firefox and thought "This isn't full-screeny enough; I wish OS X had native
support for full-screening so that my fullscreen mode was more full-screeny."

~~~
jsz0
The interesting thing about this feature is it makes full screen applications
first class citizens in a way I'm not sure we've seen before on a desktop OS.
I'm thinking you're probably right that for existing applications it's a minor
feature but it may drive more applications to offer a full screen mode which
is a good thing in my opinion. Being able to quickly switch between full
screen apps probably lends this feature to being used as a type of heavy duty
widget. If you check Facebook constantly maybe you'd want to always have the
Facebook app running a gesture away from your full screen Twitter app.

~~~
ezy
Hey, I know, they could add a feature where you _drag_ the menubar down to see
the full screen app partially exposed running behind it. And the same for that
app, etc. Wouldn't that be cool?

Oh wait.... :-)

(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workbench_(Amiga)>)

------
armandososa
So they have:

1.A control in the lower left corner on the screen that let's you access your
apps.

2.A screen full of shortcuts.

3.A maximize button that works as expected.

It's Windows 95!

\-- wait a minute! where's my task bar?

~~~
elblanco
Except without the crashes...and more transitions between stuff.

I wish they'd let me resize windows from any corner.

~~~
armandososa

        I wish they'd let me resize windows from any corner.
    

Wait for OSX Thundercat

------
kellishaver
This looks horrible. I don't want my Macbook to be an ipad. If I wanted an
iPad, I'd buy an iPad.

(Actually, I do want an iPad, but that still doesn't mean I want anything near
a similar UI on my Macbook.)

~~~
cookiecaper
I expect this is a precursor to touch-screen iMacs and MacBooks.

~~~
bas
The keynote video is worth watching, especially the part where they explain
why they would never want to do this.

~~~
noarchy
It is still possible that they haven't figured out how to do touch-screen in a
satisfying way for these machines. Taking Jobs at his word doesn't always
work. In a year or two he may emerge to declare that they've come up with a
"magical" solution.

~~~
loewenskind
This is more analogous to multi-tasking. First they poo pooed it, then they
came out with a variation that wasn't what people asked for (but was plenty)
and then explained why they wont do exactly what people asked for.

They can't do a satisfying touch-screen on computers because it can't be done.
There are certain tasks that are fundamentally "mousy" today. Can you imagine
doing those tasks with your hands stretched out in front of you? Imagine a
designer working in photoshop all day having to hold his arms out in front of
him for 8+ hours a day.

And there's no reason to. We're already long used to the indirection of a
mouse. The trackpad suitably acts like a touch screen that just isn't the
actual screen.

~~~
cookiecaper
I don't believe that they're going to aim to totally _replace_ mice. I think
they're going to allow/encourage touching for relevant applications. It
doesn't really matter what they say here, they've said that they had no
interest in a lot of different things only to implement them a year or two
later.

------
ugh
I really hope that the Launchpad is the only way to access your applications,
i.e. that the old Applications folder is hidden and that the OS, not the user
or app developer manages its content.

I just despise that phony two-level way of organizing your applications that
is so prevalent on Windows, i.e. their applications folder(s) and the Start
Menu.

If the old Applications folder continues to be accessible I really hope that
there is, unlike in the Windows Start Menu, a 1:1 mapping, i.e. folders
created in the Launchpad are also created in the Applications folder and
applications deleted in the Launchpad are also deleted in the Applications
folder.

~~~
derefr
I'm having a hard time imagining how this whole thing works with a multi-user
Mac. Right now, every user account has one iTunes account associated with it,
such that different users own different iOS App Store apps. Does that mean
that the Mac App Store will only install apps per-user? It didn't seem to
suggest that (they said that the app licenses are "per computer", though they
also called them "personal.")

~~~
MaysonL
Apps will, according to the keynote, be licensed like iOS apps, for all your
personal computers.

~~~
jasonlotito
Which does nothing to answer the above question. My wife and I have two
computers we share interchangeably. We each have an iPhone, share an iPad, and
have an AppleTV (not the latest). If I had to go by the past, the App Store on
the Mac is going to have abysmal support for multi-user environments.
Hopefully this is not the case. Hopefully the apps I buy work on both accounts
on both devices.

------
Qz
I'm not 100% on board with the direction they're taking this, but at least
they're taking it in a direction.

~~~
roadnottaken
What?

~~~
Qz
To elaborate -- mainstream computer UIs have been mostly stagnant for years,
with small innovations here and there. 10.7 seems like a bold step in a new
direction. I dislike the idea that the iPad is some kind of magical UX unicorn
that they want to spread all over their devices, but at least it's something
new.

------
protomyth
Looking at it, am I wrong in thinking that I should remove all the apps I can
from my dock? It seems like launch pad takes over the app selection part and
the dock will then have only the running apps.

~~~
scott_s
I do that anyway. Apple+spacebar is how I open an application that's not
already open.

~~~
zackattack
>Apple+spacebar

How?

~~~
fragmede
Spotlight? <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotlight_%28software%29>

------
csomar
So that's what the edition is all about? Order software icons and you get a
new major version of an operating system?

Comparing XP to Windows 7, there are really awesome reasons why I should make
the switch. Improved performance, graphics, the pin bar, windows search, easy
network management and a plethora of other useless/useful features.

~~~
slantyyz
Yeah, I came out quite underwhelmed too.

I really like Mission Control, but I want to hear about a finder that's
finally good (tried the alternatives, didn't like any of them) or resolution
independence.

None of these features had the whiz-bang appeal of past innovations like Time
Machine, etc.

~~~
larrywright
This is only what they have announced thus far, I'd bet there is more to come.

------
dgreensp
I wonder how this simple interface -- which looks awesome! -- integrates with
the complexity of Mac OS X, both the good (unixy bottom layers) and bad (long
start-up time, error-prone interactions between drivers, network services,
etc.). In other words, is it an iPad with the start-up time of a Mac, that
sometimes pegs my CPU collecting file-system metadata? Or a Mac with less BSD
and more iOS? Hopefully neither.

Another question -- is there a "low end" in Apple's world? Are they building
an ecosystem that cheap PCs won't be able to participate in? What about old
Macs? It would be ironic if my parents had to buy a fancy new 64-bit Mac in
order to have a more iPad-like experience when they share photos with me.

------
bobabooey
Frankly, I'd be _extremely_ happy if they just changed the damned Finder so
that I can right-click a folder and create a new folder within it instead of
placing it alphabetically so that I have to go find it and drag the new folder
into the folder I want it in.

------
gurraman
In every new release I'm still stubbornly hoping for a few new features.

1\. A new window management model. Cascaded windows don't do it for me.

2\. 256 colors in Terminal.app.

256 colours will never happen. I'm stuck with either urxvt or settling for the
SIMBL terminal colours plugin.

A new model for managing windows wouldn't be too far fetched though and I was
really holding my thumbs during the talk. I shone up when they started talking
about full screen applications but it fell kind of flat. Please Apple, if
you're going to force me to work in 8 colours, at-least add a means to tile
windows and navigate between them with sensible, configurable keyboard
shortcuts! :)

~~~
prashantv
I've been waiting for 256 colour support for so long. I've given up now
though, and configured iTerm2 instead. iTerm2 also lets me use my mouse in vim
over ssh, which is a nice bonus.

~~~
gurraman
iTerm2. Interesting. iTerm(1) was really slow. I'll check the sequel out.
Thank you for the tip!

~~~
gurraman
I downloaded iTerm 2 and it's amazing. It's a totally new application compared
to it's predecessor. I finally, truly have 256 colors in the terminal now.

------
51Cards
Just makes me smile how "Full-screen apps." is a marketing 'feature' in this
day and age of supposedly mature OS's.

~~~
global_hero
that's a feature that ms-dos had!

------
parka
The Mac App Store - I guess Dashboard apps will be going away?

Launchpad - I firmly believe technology is to help save time. Launchpad
doesn't do that. There's already an app called Quicksilver that will get your
app opened, without you having to move the mouse or even swipe

Full-screen apps - Great. But have an option not to go fullscreen as well. Not
all apps need 1080p equivalent resolutions to work.

Mission Control - Can't say anything much without using this. But meanwhile
the CMD+Tab has been serving me very well.

\----------------------------------

Voice recognition/Voice command, that's what I would like to see. The ability
to launch apps or menu commands just by saying their name.

------
elblanco
Regarding full-screen apps, I'd like to bring this old thread back up
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1721650>

------
kevinelliott
Lion looks lackluster. As an app developer, I'm excited for the Mac App Store
(and eventual Apple TV App Store) but the rest of the OS does not seem like a
major leap, as they are claiming it to be.

Snow Leopard offered more than this coming from Leopard.

~~~
_djo_
Bear in mind that this is only a very early media preview of OS X Lion and
that Apple does not traditionally reveal all the juicy details of its new OS X
releases this far in advance.

So there's no doubt more to come. For instance, Jobs hinted at some new
features and APIs coming across from iOS to enable things like instant-on, the
automatic and implicit saving of files and state-preservation on quit, none of
which was described in any detail.

So I highly doubt that what we saw yesterday was the sum total of the
innovations and updates that Apple is planning for Lion.

~~~
kevinelliott
Of course it doesn't, but it didn't really warrant a preview either.

------
rsbrown
I hope the Mac App Store is not "just like shopping the App Store on iPad",
because I've found the organizational approach of the iPad App Store to be
very frustrating.

------
elai
This shows an eventual long term direction of the iOS and OSX
desktop/tablet/phone interface and business model merge.

------
icco
Is anyone else incredibly amused that they are using the old version of the
MacBook Air in their promos?

------
sigzero
I have no idea if I like this or not. I am guessing it will be a "feel" thing
when it comes out.

------
alphabeat
No ZFS :( This would have made me move.

~~~
chc
Whether ZFS was announced at this event has no bearing on whether it's in Lion
or not. As you might deduce from the set of features they _did_ cover, this
was for the media and public. ZFS is completely uninteresting to them. I
guarantee you there will be a ton of back-end changes, but they will never be
announced at something like this. We'll see more of that kind of thing at WWDC
next year.

But despite all that, dollars to doughnuts ZFS won't be in there. But because
of ownership issues, _not_ because it wasn't announced today.

------
f7u12
2011, year of the Linux desktop

------
potatolicious
Five bucks says Apple moves towards touchscreens on even their mainstream
laptops/desktops. The Springboard on OSX, and the completely iOS-esque UI on
the new iLife suite... it all sets the stage.

~~~
astrange
Did you read the transcript of the event? Touchscreen laptops were
specifically called out as a bad idea in the current form, because your arm
gets tired touching a vertical surface.

~~~
boltofblue
Did you hear that Steve Jobs once say a desktop App Store was a bad idea?

Touch Screen would work fine on an Air, at least.

~~~
astrange
> Did you hear that Steve Jobs once say a desktop App Store was a bad idea?

In general, the idea that Jobs constantly says something sucks and then does
it himself mostly seems to come from people over-interpreting what he says. In
this particular case, I can't think of what you're referring to. Do you have a
link?

This sounds like a real problem to me - my desk at school is too high up, so
I've even ditched my laptop stand as otherwise I'd have to lift my arms up to
reach the keyboard half the time. I would definitely be uncomfortable
constantly touching a screen. And what do you think those enormous trackpads
are for?

