
China has built an elevated bus that travels above car traffic - rezist808
https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/02/china-has-actually-built-that-elevated-bus-that-travels-above-car-traffic/
======
IIAOPSW
Can anyone provide some analysis / urban planning snobbishness? What are the
disadvantages? Off hand it looks scary to drive under / around. Unlike a bus,
one accident can cause the entire line to get backed up. You could say the
same thing about subways, but subways can't get into car accidents in the
first place.

Furthermore it can only run in places that have wide four lane roads (2 in
each direction) to begin with. There's not that many appealing residential
places next to loud, busy roads. Is it possible to build practical commuter
routes serviced by this type of vehicle?

Of course I'm not a total cynic. If the problems could be hammered out then it
will be quick like a subway (no traffic) but much less expensive. I'm curious
to see how this experiment pans out.

~~~
ting_bu_dung
There's no way this will work in China. If you have ever been in China you'll
notice that

a.) cars don't follow traffic lights

b.) people create unofficial extra lanes

c.) scooters are everywhere. and they ignore lights/lanes

d.) people don't pay attention to traffic lights nor cars when they cross.

~~~
rahimnathwani
(a) Cars _do_ obey traffic lights, at least in Shanghai and Beijing. Perhaps
you're talking about 10 years ago, or in tier 2/3/4 cities.

(d) People _do_ pay attention when they cross the road. You have to, because
cars can turn right at a red light and, even though they're meant to yield to
pedestrians, they don't.

(c) Creating an additional lane is rare in big cities.

I'm not saying this idea is workable, but the points you make don't seem the
most pressing.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
> (a) Cars do obey traffic lights, at least in Shanghai and Beijing. Perhaps
> you're talking about 10 years ago, or in tier 2/3/4 cities

Most of the time? More so in Shanghai than Beijing, I still see cars doing
very crazy things on a daily basis. I mean, what cop is going to dare and pull
over a Black Audi?

> (d) People do pay attention when they cross the road. You have to, because
> cars can turn right at a red light and, even though they're meant to yield
> to pedestrians, they don't.

Most do, but after seeing a couple of cyclists hit and (probably) killed as
they just blew through a red light, well, some obviously don't.

> (c) Creating an additional lane is rare in big cities.

Heck, 25% of the lanes in Beijing are being used for illegal parking, the
scooters just spill out anywhere. Anyways, these buses I assume would only
travel on very well regulated roads (if at all, this bus has been vapor for
more than a few years now).

~~~
rahimnathwani
You're refuting points that I didn't actually make!

On (a), I said cars obey traffic lights. I didn't say they don't do other
crazy things.

On (d), I said people look when they're crossing the road. I wasn't talking
about cyclists going through an intersection. That's not what 'crossing the
road' means in every day speech.

On (c), I was talking about creating an additional lane. I wasn't talking
about illegally blocking an existing lane.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
I see cars routinely not obey traffic lights, which is one of hose crazy
things. The only reason it has gone down at all is because of the cameras, but
you'll still see it happen on a daily basis.

People don't look when they are crossing, they just go. I have to warn the
driver to be careful at such intersection because there is always some old guy
or gal crossing. The bikes are much more dangerous, as the cars are expected
to, and can, just go around the pedestrians who don't give a f*ck about the
light, but the bikes are always surprises.

Beijing used to have lots of bike lanes. Technically it still does, but it is
all being used for parking. The four lane roads on either side of my apartment
are effectively one lane roads since parking enforcement is non existent.

------
hokkos
What will happen when a car or trunk with a height higher than accepted is on
the road ? On a tunnel it is easier to guard against it because there is only
2 entrances and it happens a lot, but on a road with multiple cross road it
will block cars and the tram. All this show is poor planning, the solution is
to use a car line for a tram line or to plane a tram line in advance. But it
is still a nice hack, and it will be interesting to test how drivers will
behave with it.

~~~
CannisterFlux
Given the speed it goes at, 40mph max it says in the article, I guess most of
the time cars would be zooming underneath it. In which case, the scenario will
be that the bus-thing will block larger trucks from going past it as they
cannot go under or around. Then those trucks will block cars, and the whole
2-lane traffic will slow to a crawl behind this monstrosity.

~~~
maxerickson
It seems unlikely that they would operate it on roads with significant truck
traffic. I guess it might be hard to avoid roads that are used by delivery
trucks, but they would be less likely to follow it for long distances (and in
cities those roads would anyway tend to have speed limits closer to 40 mph).

~~~
CannisterFlux
Ah that's true, thinking were I live in Europe there are a few 2 lane main
roads through the city, in fact I live on one, with that kind of limit or even
less. No way you'd get up to 40mph there. This looks great and reminds me of
something from Thunderbirds, but a normal bus seems much more practical!

------
frankus
Jarrett Walker has a great rant on this topic:

[http://humantransit.org/2016/05/the-chinese-straddle-bus-
is-...](http://humantransit.org/2016/05/the-chinese-straddle-bus-is-back.html)

"…If your starting point for urban design is that single-occupant cars,
despite their extreme inefficiency in using scarce urban space, should be
allowed to go anywhere at all, and that the surface plane should be designed
solely for their convenience to the exclusion of all other citizens and needs,
then this technology makes sense.

Remember, the primary cost of transit infrastructure is the cost of keeping
transit out of the way of motorists, on the assumption that motorists have the
prior claim to absolutely every bit of public space in our cities."

------
RangerScience
Can we have a space race, but for awesome urban tech? Because that would be
super awesome.

------
Havoc
Holy sht - they actually did it. And in record time too. Didn't they show off
the 30cm model like a month ago?

~~~
optforfon
One of my buddies here in China (who's been here for ever) told me that the
China always say that we in the West talk too much. That we talk talk talk and
never actually get anything done. In China people just do thing - often stupid
things, but it's often the quickest way to learn how to do it right.

~~~
geezerjay
> One of my buddies here in China (who's been here for ever) told me that the
> China always say that we in the West talk too much.

The main reason why "the West" talk too much is because they talk about safety
concerns, and actually tackle potential problems.

China doesn't, and when the proverbial shit hits the fan they simply try to
cover up the result of their incompetence, too often even at the expense of
human lives.

Case in point:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenzhou_train_collision](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenzhou_train_collision)

Another reason why "the West" talk too much is because in "the West" projects
need to have a sound business model, as there isn't a dictatorship that is
able to throw piles of cash at problems just to save face and resorts to
industrial levels of censorship to stop these problems from being discussed.

It's easy to have successes if you use force to silence anyone who dares point
out any failure.

~~~
icebraining
While the attempt of cover-up was ridiculous, the event as a whole doesn't
seem worse than Spain's derailment that happened two years later, in which
many more were killed, and for which all blame was laid on the driver.

~~~
Al-Khwarizmi
Yep. Or the Valencia metro accident, where there is some quite convincing
evidence that the authorities hid evidence and instructed employees to give a
convenient version in their declarations.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valencia_Metro_derailment#Subs...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valencia_Metro_derailment#Subsequent_reactions)

~~~
dclowd9901
Or the myriad deadly Amtrak incidents that dwarf that toll.

~~~
billskills
Unless by "dwarf" you mean "less than 10% more" and by "myriad" you mean
"exactly one", I invite you to join those of us who live in the real world.
You don't have to like Amtrak, but there's plenty of nonsense on the Internet
without you adding to it.

~~~
dclowd9901
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/05/13/what-...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/05/13/what-
we-know-about-amtraks-history-of-accidents-injuries-and-deaths/)

------
taf2
This is cool - looking at the design, I was thinking they should put solar
panels on the top and then it could also provide a free source of charging for
people to charge their phones. But then, I had a darker thought and those
chargers could be USB allowing china to hack into everyone's phones... I love
the future.

~~~
50CNT
If you are worried about intimate contact with public charging stations giving
your phone the cooties, just use a condom (as [0]). Or cut the data lines in a
charging cable. That'd be white and green in a standard usb cable afaik.

[0][http://syncstop.com/](http://syncstop.com/)

------
mc32
So looks like it has tyres as well as tracks to guide it along a path it
cannot deviate from --which makes sense as it needs to have as predictable a
route as a rail car.

Is this solution cheaper than elevated monorails? The clearance for traffic
definitely is something which has the potential to cause problems of either
high clearance vehicles misjudging or the bus misjudging as vehicles exchange
position in traffic --you know there will be people pushing the clearance, so
they should think about failsafes.

~~~
aaron695
> you know there will be people pushing the clearance, so they should think
> about failsafes.

I'd imaging you'd just put up height restriction bars on all the roads
entering the path.

Add in a sensor that checks the height of other transport around in case a car
somehow got higher after passing a safety bar. ....

You'd reduce accidents to normal levels.

The Chinese would have thought of this on day one....

[edit] "To prevent traffic accidents, Mr. Song said guardrails would be
constructed between the bus tracks and the car lanes that pass through the
elevated bus. The rails would be able to absorb at least 70 percent of a
collision’s impact to reduce damage to the bus and other vehicles. Lanes for
the elevated bus would be limited to passenger vehicles no higher than 7.2
feet, and the buses are designed to meet zoning and bridge height regulations
in each city."

~~~
mc32
I hope so, but sometimes we're optimistic about the behavior of others.
Restricting the height of vehicles able to enter a multilane multi purpose
roadway is going to be tough. People will sabotage those just so they can use
the same roadway to make deliveries, make a living, etc. But, who knows, maybe
you're right and they have devised such a solution.

Another issue is people trying to turn away from the lanes of the elevated bus
as the bus approaches --thinking they can beat it, unless getting in and out
of those lanes is restricted to a few well managed merge and exit areas.

~~~
williamscales
I guess since there will be guard rails that access will be controlled.

Do people often sabotage train tracks? It seems similar.

------
justrossthings
Practical or not, this isn't going to be the first time China builds something
we didn't.

------
mattlondon
Absolutely brilliant!

In London, the buses are a real pain because they are slow (both in terms of
how fast they can go and because they stop every couple of hundred of meters
or so) and you often cant get around them due to narrow streets/constant
traffic coming the other way. "Sorry, I got stuck behind a bus" is a common
(and legit!) excuse for arriving somewhere late. And in UK and London, we have
a LOT of buses which does not seem to be the case in most US cities I have
visited where Buses are probably less than 10% of traffic compared to more
like 50% (or even approaching 75-90% in some central areas) in central London
(anecdotal figures)

The fact that tall vehicles cant go under these is a limitation sure, but
right now (in London at least) its very hard for ANYTHING to get past a bus
(even cyclists or motorcyclists sometimes) so allowing cars to get past if not
lorries is a massive step forward.

When can we get these in London?!

Only drawback I can see is people driving into the back of the thing. I
imagine they will be riddled with sensors and big flashing lights if something
too tall is approaching from behind (and I would assume that forward looking
sensors will stop it just driving into stuff on its own).

~~~
Flimm
Surely the bus lanes where they exist solve this problem.

~~~
mattlondon
Usually not because there are _other_ buses overtaking the one stopped in the
lane, or there is something else in the way.

Plus there are not bus lanes everywhere. But in theory yeah :-)

If we had these in London we could return bus lanes to the rest of the traffic
or use it for dedicated cycle-lanes or pedestrian use.

------
funkyy
This seems like only usable at straight roads, where only regular passenger
cars are allowed. Allow a van there or a truck and you are up for accident.
Also, I would assume that some driver being all of sudden surrounded by this
machine can steer right or left out of surprise.

Hopefully they have this planned. Or maybe this is just a way to suck money
from city budget to private pockets or even marketing stunt, that would make
more sense.

------
tired_man
It's a cool idea, but I think it's very unrealistic to label this vehicle as a
bus. It is more along the lines of a streetcar, especially since it will only
be traveling along fixed paths and isn't able to turn down a side street to
detour or make an ad hoc route change.

------
ghughes
Imagine a slightly longer, single-lane-width version of this running along the
middle lanes of Oak and Fell in SF, one every few minutes, almost never late
because traffic is irrelevant.

This coming at you from behind is not all that different to a motorbike, is
it? You'd have a special traffic light phase at each end to allow it to loop
around safely. This has to be much cheaper than digging tunnels anywhere where
earthquakes are a concern.

~~~
Someone
Psychologically, a motorbike feels less like an alien battleship hovering over
your head => I do not rule out human reaction to this overtaking them will be
quite different.

------
acgourley
I still don't understand how it can turn without hitting all the cars under
it.

~~~
koenigdavidmj
Separate signal phase, probably. There's plenty of precedent for streetcars to
do that.

~~~
paradite
You are right.

According to this video, the bus would have higher priority than other cars
during signalling:

[https://www.facebook.com/shanghaiist/videos/1015460854966603...](https://www.facebook.com/shanghaiist/videos/10154608549666030/)

~~~
acgourley
That's the same video that shows it magically transforming into jelly to make
the turn at the 2:00 mark, so I'm not totally sure if I trust it.

~~~
jimparkins
Google "bendy buses" the design they are proposing between segments is exactly
the same as this. Nothing magical or gelatonus about it.

------
ucaetano
A giant tram running at high speed above traffic supported on wheels under
huge pillars that go between car-packed lanes.

What could possibly go wrong?

------
rajeshp1986
This might seem like a cool idea at first. But, why they did not built an
elevated metro/sub-way line.

I don't think this kind of vehicle is energy efficient. The aerodynamics of
the vehicle doesn't seem to be very good. That amount of energy can carry more
people and be energy efficient(compared to this) for a regular metro/sub-way
or trams.

------
flukus
Wow, it doesn't seem that long ago that they showed off the concept art and
now they're building it already.

------
chris_7
"New York has actually built an elevated train that travels above car traffic
(and can't collide with it)"

Is this really better than a standard elevated railway? Trains fit much more
than 300 people, _already_ , today.

~~~
flukus
It's different.

The use case for this is the same as light rail, shorter distances with more
frequent stops. Basically this is to commuter rail as commuter rail is to high
speed rail.

~~~
geezerjay
> Basically this is to commuter rail as commuter rail is to high speed rail.

In other words, this is a beefier trolley car. Same concept, larger capacity.

~~~
flukus
Yes, but one that doesn't have the costs of being elevated or the downside of
being blocked by traffic.

~~~
vonmoltke
How is it not blocked by traffic? There is no way for something to use the
same right-of-way as traffic and not be affected by it.

~~~
superuser2
RTFA. It's a tall "bus" which straddles the roadway so that cars can drive
underneath it.

It does have to stop at intersections, but can also go faster than traffic on
the same road.

~~~
vonmoltke
I did. If it has to stop at intersections, how is it not subject to being
blocked by traffic? If it is rolling along the same road, what stops cars from
moving in front of it? As far as I can tell, this system has no advantages
over a tram/streetcar.

~~~
superuser2
A tram/streetcar needs a dedicated lane to be impervious to slowdowns. If
dedicated lanes are on the table you could just use any old bus.

The idea is to ride on existing (or slightly modified) roadway without taking
lanes away from cars.

~~~
vonmoltke
How does this thing avoid traffic without dedicated lanes? It needs to touch
the ground _somewhere_ , and the article talks about installing guardrails and
other measures to keep traffic from interfering with its movement.

~~~
superuser2
The parts that touch the ground aren't very wide, and can use something more
like a gutter than a full lane.

------
garyclarke27
Brilliant idea. I had thought of building elevated train/road track sections,
in a factory then, installing them above existing roads or railways, slotted
together delivered by airships. This must be much cheaper though, I don't
agree will cause accidents, drivers are amazingly adept at driving close
together and missing each-other and other obstacles. Will be no more difficult
to avoid, than obstacles found driving in Paris or Rome today.

------
pluma
It's a train, not a bus.

~~~
Freak_NL
More of a tram, but yeah, not the bus-concept that was presented a while back.

Limiting it to a controlled path makes sense for this design though.

------
oliv__
Wouldn't it be better if the bus' wheels latched on to the actual sides of the
road, like say fences/concrete walls on each side of the road? Seems to me
like it would make it less scary for cars to drive under, as they would just
have to worry about not hitting the sides of the road like they normally do.

------
taigeair
This is cool. It looks very spacious inside. Curious about what happens when
there's a bus in front of it.

------
INTPenis
I can't believe they actually built this. Am I completely crazy or is it much
easier to juse use a rail system? They've already been forced to build rails
into the road so it's not a bus per say. it's a rail-based vehicle that allows
cars to pass through it.

~~~
lucaspiller
This doesn't need a dedicated space like a railway, and won't be delayed by
traffic like a tramway. Of course those would be easier, but what's the
problem with innovating?

~~~
vonmoltke
> This doesn't need a dedicated space like a railway, and won't be delayed by
> traffic like a tramway

Those are fundamentally incompatible. Either it does have dedicated space
(which the article certainly indicates it does, both elevated platforms and
travel paths) or it will be delayed by traffic. You can't have both.

~~~
lucaspiller
Well this does :D It goes over traffic, and as mentioned elsewhere, the height
of vehicles is limited on these parts of the road, so it won't get stuck
behind a tall lorry.

~~~
vonmoltke
You are missing the point. It needs to touch the ground _somewhere_. That
somewhere is either a dedicated right-of-way or subject to traffic blockage.

------
andrewclunn
I'm turning right, oh wait the bus / train thing is coming up behind me. Roads
were meant for one class of vehicle on them at a time. This thing will cause
so many accidents the plan will fail. Regular buses can do the job just fine.

------
geniium
The concept is really cool. Wondering how they handle different car height
though.

------
jandrese
Countdown till the first car collides with one of those posts, or tries to cut
it off and is slammed sideways. This just seems like such a bad idea in
general I can't believe they actually built it.

------
ohitsdom
This looks more like an elevated train then a bus. Can it even turn?

------
taigeair
video:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS3ULbv2B0Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS3ULbv2B0Q)

------
jordinl
Seems like an anti-pattern to me. The actual solution would be to reduce the
amount of cars on the road...

~~~
robzyb
It seems to me that a good way to reduce the amount of cars onto the road
would be to build large buses.

------
the_arun
Creative idea. But wouldn't the accidents between cars under this be a bit
more dangerous?

------
jaimex2
Too low, I can see higher vehicles running into it.

~~~
Gupie
Yes, an obvious and valid flaw, I don't know why you are being down voted. A
car with a roof-rack word would prevent the bus passing, assuming the driver
sees it. Not to mention cyclists.

~~~
Gustomaximus
And easily fixed. Put multiple warning signs, then hang some chains set at
this height limit on roads leading in as a warning (nice loud crash but
limited damage), followed by a nice solid bar blocking the section of the road
this operates.

~~~
greghendershott
Some people ignore these. Or rent a truck and take their usual route.

It's almost that time of year in Boston when many people move c. Sep 1. Some
get "Storrowed":

[http://realestate.boston.com/news/2015/08/28/your-guide-
to-a...](http://realestate.boston.com/news/2015/08/28/your-guide-to-an-un-
storrowed-move-in-boston/)

------
chillaxtian
does anyone else remember seeing a concept video for this years ago?

super cool.

------
_pmf_
Wuppertal.

~~~
lorenzhs
You should probably have included a link to
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuppertal_Suspension_Railway](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuppertal_Suspension_Railway)

------
simbalion
I predict a dramatic increase in car accidents because of the effect this will
have on drivers' peripheral vision. Based on the various articles I've read it
seems nobody has considered this at all, which is amazing in itself.

Time will tell.

~~~
NolF
Wouldn't it be like driving through a tunnel? Granted it would be a bit weird
that it moves (you can overtake it and vice-versa) but given it short length,
you can easily focus on the road and compensate.

I think they might add a vanity panel so you can't see the tyres and trusses
making hitting the thing less tangling and perhaps even add flashing warnings
if you are veering too close to the thing. Given the width and height of the
TEB it looks rather stable.

~~~
simbalion
You have to keep in mind that the majority of drivers use a sort of mental
auto-pilot, which is why most car accidents happen in the first place.

Only someone who is aware of the dangers introduced by how their peripheral
vision will be affected is going to have the foresight to "focus on the road".
Other people are going to slam into the person in front of them. That's my
prediction anyway, I might be wrong but let's wait and see.

------
yitchelle
It's a Shelbyville idea. Seriously though, does it strike someone that this is
just adds to the massive problems that China already have?

------
sonink
This contraption is representative of everything that is wrong with communism.

~~~
majewsky
As if modern China was communist.

------
asgardiator
"There's a reason this didn't happen in America or Europe.

Same reason we're not building as many CRISPR labs.

We are afraid. They're not." \-
[https://twitter.com/0xa59a2d/status/760659669735976960](https://twitter.com/0xa59a2d/status/760659669735976960)

------
googleir
I read through most comments here, and nobody seems to say this so I do. This
article is BS, Silicon Valley might not be the cutting edge in mobile, but
neither is China. You can't just write a generic article because of few small
advances.

