

Fundraising from... you - Need $5,000 from 500 people, each giving us $10. - leolin

https://www.fundable.com/groupactions/groupaction.2007-12-19.5536225936<p>We really need to finish this project and we need $5K from 500 people total, each giving us $10. <p>We're a 2 man startup in Palo Alto. We're looking for angel investors for a while but can't really get connected or referred. It's been more than 8 months since we started working on it. We're close to a private beta, but we can no longer work full-time on it. We just need to get a day time job again to pay rent and food.<p>With $5k we can go full-time again for 2~3 months and finish beta much, much faster.<p>Since we're asking money from you, we have our executive summary, resumes, and a 5-min presentation movie available for download.<p>- Presentation Movie<p>http://bookvair.com/pitch-qt.html<p>- Executive Summary and resumes<p>http://bookvair.com/bookviar_files.zip<p>- Project Page<p>http://bookvair.com<p>
We'd also like to invite contributors to be our first group of users, and give them special deals when we roll out book swapping features.<p>I understand it's not the "normal" way to ask money but we're willing to try every way possible to make our website go live.<p>If you have any comments, critics, feel free to post. They are as valuable as money donated.<p>
Thank you very much.<p>Merry Christmas!<p>Leo &#38; Jason<p>sayaww@gmail.com
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leolin
@jgrahamc

1\. How do you compare with all the other book swapping sites out there?

We offer faster swapping. In the presentation video we called it "Instant
Swap" but didn't explain in detail. Here's how it works. At our site, people
don't have to wait to swap their books. Just send your book to us and you can
request a book back. It's different from other sites because we work with a
fulfillment center they are only peer to peer.

2\. You financials seem to indicate that by 2010 you'll have revenue of $70k
is that correct?

Yes, we calculated the numbers by comparing it to one of the swapping site.
Don't believe it, though. It only shows our faith.

3\. Why would I pay to swap a book? It seems to me that in swapping a book I'm
already giving something and getting something of 'equal' value; what makes
you think people will pay for this service?

Swapping is all about getting the book you want with low price. If you swap
manually, it's cheaper because sending a book usually costs $2.47 via USPS.
However no one can tell you when the book you want is available. At our site,
you don't need to wait, when you see some book you want, click instant swap
and then send your book. The book you want will be delivered to you in 5-10
business days. All you have to pay is $3.99. We think it's a better swapping
experience and worth $3.99.

\-----------

@cmccann77

Thanks. Our goal is actually $15,000 but we don't think we can make it. So we
decide we get around 5k through this and get a loan for the rest.

\-----------

@aristus

Q: if this is a "swap", who pays the 4 bucks? Both parties?

Only the one who gets the book pays. Sending is free, getting a book is $3.99.

O1: I think you are onto something here. But it is probably not this exact
idea. If your proposition is "cheap + used + as fast as Amazon"... why not
just use Amazon? People with books valued over 4 bucks lose out; better to
sell it.

Swapping is for people who sell their books to read more. If they want to get
money, selling them on ebay or Amazon would be a better choice.

O2: You have been working on this full-time for 6 months, and have 3 months
more to go? That is an unhealthy amount of time to do something like this
without user feedback.

We started it as a part-time and go full-time a few months ago, but can't
continue because of financial reasons. We do show our prototype to friends and
ask for feedbacks, just not publicly.

\---------

@joeguilmette

Q:do both parties mail their books at the same time? why the $4 fee? what does
that money buy? to me, this looks like you could get leapfrogged by a facebook
app, which says

I didn't explain everything because I'm afraid no one will go through a
presentation more than 5 minutes. The other reason I don't explain is
customers don't have to care about the swapping details.

You send your book when you see some book you want, and pay $3.99 total. The
book you send goes to our warehouse and you don't have to worry when someone
wants your book, we'll handle that.

The $3.99 is for shipping + our commission

Q: also, is this $10 an investment or a donation? do we get any equity for
purchasing?

It's a donation. We did want to make it an 3%~5% investment (compared to YC
funding 5%~7% for $15k) but we don't think we can promise anything so we
dropped it. We'd like to give contributors special deals when we start the
swapping.

\---------

@falseprophet

Q: Why do you keep telling us you are Taiwanese? Note Paul Graham never tells
us he is English.

A: It's the same as people calling their live website a "beta" --- just some
excuse when things go wrong.

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sbraford
I'd also recommend you do some contracting work if you can swing it.

I recently left a full-time position and now devote 50% of my time to
contracting, making 2x as much per hour.

Net result: I have 50% more free time and make roughly the same amount.

There could be dry spots if the economy / web bubble slips, but for the most
part demand seems to be exceeding my capacity so far. ($4k contract for 50
hours of my time this month, for example)

~~~
wehriam
I agree.

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aristus
One question and an observation.

Q: if this is a "swap", who pays the 4 bucks? Both parties?

O1: I think you are onto something here. But it is probably not this exact
idea. If your proposition is "cheap + used + as fast as Amazon"... why not
just use Amazon? People with books valued over 4 bucks lose out; better to
sell it.

O2: You have been working on this full-time for 6 months, and have 3 months
more to go? That is an unhealthy amount of time to do something like this
without user feedback.

I am tempted to invest, but I think that's more to do with the low minimum
than my excitement. The most innovative and clever thing is the funding
method, not the business.

~~~
joeguilmette
yea the video was very well put together, but not once did you address the
very important nuts and bolts as to what exactly mean with the $3.99 swap.

do both parties mail their books at the same time? why the $4 fee? what does
that money buy? to me, this looks like you could get leapfrogged by a facebook
app, which says a lot.

also, is this $10 an investment or a donation? do we get any equity for
purchasing?

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cmccann77
$5000 isn't worth the risk of using 500 non-accredited investors. If you
really believe in your company my advice is to put some real sweat equity into
your business and a. get a part time job, restaurant servers get good tips b.
take out a credit card c. liquidate everything you can to afford it d. or a
combination of all three

~~~
mwerty
b. and c. are not an option for everyone. Their risk profile may be different
than what you think it to be.

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falsestprophet
You expect people to donate to a profit seeking venture? That is insane.

I think you would have better luck asking for investors of >= 1000 and giving
them equity.

edit: Nevermind. I just read one of the co-founders is a business-dev guy with
a "big idea" and I just vomited in my mouth.

edit edit: Why do you keep telling us you are Taiwanese? Note Paul Graham
never tells us he is English.

~~~
mrtron
I am starting a business, the business is to solicit donations.

I also like how they are asking for funds to start the site, but don't explain
what the money is actually for. How is 5k going to magically get things off
the ground? Is the bus-dev guy going to outsource it?

------
rms
OK... I read your executive summary and I think $3.99 is way too much to pay
to swap a book. $3.99 can get you a book at a used bookstore.

I understand that you are trying to make the best site for book lovers, but
then the real challenge for all social sites is getting users. How do you get
users?

~~~
leolin
Yes indeed. $3.99 can get you a book at a used bookstore. But you might not be
able to find the one you want immediately. Used bookstores are for explorers,
not buyers.

Besides, $3.99 isn't enough for a popular title or a hardcover. However you
can get them through swapping with a flat fee.

\--

We'll focus on one thing and make it work. In our case it's book swapping. If
our service is good then we'll have users. I don't think there's other way.

~~~
rms
Are you paying shipping or is it $3.99 + shipping?

~~~
leolin
It's $3.99 total, including shipping.

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ph0rque
Hmmm... this might become a good way to raise money. I wonder if it's possible
to make it tax deductible unless the company becomes successful and pays
"dividends"?

~~~
rms
I once considered selling equity like this as a kind of micro-IPO but it gets
messy with non-accredited investors and all that.

~~~
leolin
What happened then? Some thing went wrong?

~~~
rms
It was impossible to do it in a way I was sure was legal without any legal
budget. If it wasn't for that, I think it would be a great way to raise money.

~~~
sbraford
Because it's not legal in just about any way you try and do it.

I'm no lawyer but companies are always trying to do this, and some get smacked
down by the FTC.

------
icky
Talk to a lawyer first!

IANAL, but IIRC, once you have more than a certain number of investors, you
are effectively a public company (and will be forever the bitch of the demon-
prince SarbOx!)

Make sure your competent legal representation gives you the go-ahead before
doing this...

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jgrahamc
1\. How do you compare with all the other book swapping sites out there?

2\. You financials seem to indicate that by 2010 you'll have revenue of $70k
is that correct?

3\. Why would I pay to swap a book? It seems to me that in swapping a book I'm
already giving something and getting something of 'equal' value; what makes
you think people will pay for this service?

------
felipe
Have you tried Prosper? <http://www.prosper.com>

~~~
leolin
No. I'll take a look, thanks for the link.

------
edw519
Only $5000? Why not use a credit card and keep all your equity?

~~~
leolin
Our goal is $15,000. I think we'll have to get a load of $10,000 eventually.

------
jakewolf
I'll give you $100 if you give me $200 first.

