
The cold blue light of modern touchscreens poses health problems - calineczka
https://www.fastcodesign.com/90177573/how-blue-became-techs-favorite-color-and-why-it-shouldnt-be
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21
The author keeps on mentioning the military, but doesn't know that on all war
ships the lighting in the operations room is blue:

[http://warbird-
photos.com/special/temp/CVN72-D5_Combat_Direc...](http://warbird-
photos.com/special/temp/CVN72-D5_Combat_Direction_Center.jpg)

[https://www.extremetech.com/wp-
content/uploads/2015/12/Zumwa...](https://www.extremetech.com/wp-
content/uploads/2015/12/Zumwalt-Navy-Ops.jpg)

[https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/03/31/blogs/20160331WIP...](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/03/31/blogs/20160331WIP-
slide-6IJC/20160331WIP-slide-6IJC-superJumbo.jpg)

[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/US_Navy_...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/US_Navy_101208-N-5549O-028_Secretary_of_the_Navy_%28SECNAV%29_the_Honorable_Ray_Mabus_tours_the_Combat_Information_Center_aboard_the_guided-
missile_des.jpg)

Quotes from a military study regarding lighting:

> Dissatisfaction with the red lighting system caused the crews of many ships
> to alter the lighting within their work environment. Some would extinguish
> all lighting, and some tried a white light configuration in which the
> overhead lights in the vicinity of the visual display equipment were turned
> off, while lights away from the visual display equipment remained on. There
> were many complaints of eye strain, fatigue, and headaches. In addition,
> watch-standers reported that working under red ambient illumination was also
> fatiguing, made focusing difficult, and significantly impaired their ability
> to identify color-coded information from charts.

[http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a273682.pdf](http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a273682.pdf)

~~~
NeedMoreTea
The notable thing about your links is the complete lack of the world. You
don't need to preserve night vision stuck in a sealed metal box without
windows.

Pilots, drivers and people walking around do.

~~~
chrisseaton
> You don't need to preserve night vision stuck in a sealed metal box without
> windows.

You do - because you may need to leave that box in a hurry to either evacuate
the ship or to fight. Why else do you think the military do it?

~~~
bunderbunder
That's a ceteris paribus line of reasoning, though.

If we assume, for the sake of argument, that red light inhibits alertness
while blue light promotes it, then that might change the calculus to,
"maximizing night vision preservation isn't as important as making sure that
we don't end up needing it in the first place."

------
NorthOf33rd
There is one area I'd like to see a universal ban on blue spectrum LED's -
street and commercial overhead lights.

I live in Salt Lake City and there has been an unfortunate push by Rocky
Mountain Power to replace all the streetlights with bright blue/white LED
overhead lights. Their output is significantly greater than the lights they
are replacing and the light is completely obtrusive. In the city there is the
unfortunate and unavoidable issue of spillage into peoples bedrooms.

I've also had the unpleasant task of coaxing my dog to give up the dead birds
that have suddenly started showing up my back yard. Likely attributable to the
new "better" lights.

[http://www.tracyaviaryconservation.org/lightsoutsaltlake/](http://www.tracyaviaryconservation.org/lightsoutsaltlake/)

~~~
Reason077
I think this is a big problem in lots of cities. LEDs have clear advantages in
energy efficiency and reduced maintenance costs and their use should be
encouraged. But municipalities seem to be seduced by ultra-bright, blue-white
LEDs because of the perceived "modern" look and because of the perception that
it improves security.

While we'll never be going back to the orange glow of high-pressure sodium
street lights, perhaps a compromise can be found. How about specifying
'halogen-match' (~2700K) colour temperature LEDs for street lights? White
enough to create a secure environment, but warm enough not to quite resemble
daylight and all the sleep-disturbing, wildlife-disrupting problems that come
with that.

Another issue is the way that LED street lights are designed causes a huge
amount of glare. Often as a pedestrian or driver, your line of site is
directly into the LED matrix itself. With old-style street lights, reflectors
or diffusers were typically used to reduce glare, but those have been done
away with.

~~~
blacksmith_tb
I believe that the highest lumens-per-Watt LEDs are higher color-temp, sadly,
so I would think that the streetlights were optimized mainly for sheer output,
and the cold, daylight temp was just a side effect. I doubt there will be a
lot of enthusiasm for pulling down new, long-lasting LEDs, but possibly
colored lenses could be retrofit to them...

------
otterpro
I have fond memory of using amber monochrome CRT terminals/monitors, and I've
preferred to it over the green or black/white monitors back in the days when
color monitors were rarity. Amber/orangeish text always felt more soothing and
pleasant, but on the other hand, green texts felt more readable (ie texts were
easier to comprehend), although I couldn't explain why.

Edit: Back in the late 70's and early 80's, monochrome monitors were prevalent
and one had to choose the screen color when choosing terminal/monitor. Apple
2's and most IBM PC's monitor were green, while Radio Shack TRS80 were
bluish/white if I recall. At university, we had Wyse terminals with
yellowish/amber color.

I also remember working on a terminal attached to a mainframe running IBM RPG
III, and it was distinctly dark red, which was probably the coolest color I'd
ever seen, and which I'd never seen anywhere else. That reddish color made me
feel like I was in a sci-fi movie.

~~~
dr_zoidberg
> Amber/orangeish text always felt more soothing and pleasant, but on the
> other hand, green texts felt more readable (ie texts were easier to
> comprehend), although I couldn't explain why.

The human eye has "better resolution" for green light (vs red and blue). It's
also why the Bayer pattern array has twice the ammount of green elements vs
red (or blue).

~~~
int_19h
Not just resolution, but overall sensitivity as well - meaning that green
light of the same intensity looks brighter. This is also why most night vision
devices use green phosphor, why some flashlights have a green LED (less energy
for the same perceived brightness -> more battery life), and why green lasers
for pointing/marking are increasingly common.

Since black is the same black in both cases, a green CRT will therefore has a
higher perceived contrast.

------
kpil
Is it really true though that a few tiny blue leds would affect our bodies
that much?

If I recall correctly, significant effects required rather bright lights. The
light level outdoors is like 100000 times brighter. A laptop probably won't
make much of a difference then.

I run f.lux or redshift, but I'm suspecting that it really doesn't do anything
rather than reminding me by going totally red and inconvenient that it's about
time to stop trying to read or watch every interesting thing on the Internet.

For me, it's the endless source of interesting things that keeps me awake, I
guess because I've stressed out and turned into a total information junkie. My
mind craves information. Unfortunately it thinks that recordings of air
traffic controllers etc is more valuable than sleep.

~~~
Ajedi32
These days you don't even necessarily need a separate app like F.Lux or
Redshift; Windows and Android have similar color-shifting features built-in to
the OS. (Not sure about Mac or iOS.)

~~~
maaark
IDK about iOS, but Android's built-in night mode barely changes anything. Try
Twilight.

~~~
icebraining
If you have rooted, try f.lux on Android too. Personally, I can't stand
Twilight's "orange tint over content".

~~~
spraak
There are also other night mode apps that offer other tones. I've been using
Blue Light Filter on Android lately and appreciate the level of controls it
offers (color temperature, intensity, and screen dim)

~~~
icebraining
It's not a matter of choice of colour, the way f.lux removes the blue is
different than just adding an overlay (like Twilight and such do), that's why
it needs root.

------
zengid
I highly recommend using f.lux to adapt screen colors at night. It makes
reading some pages harder once it goes into full candle-light mode, but I take
that as a signal that I need to start getting ready for bed!

~~~
ItsMe000001
I've been using it for a long time but I have a question.

Sometime ago somebody on reddit or here on HN claimed in a comment that f.lux
does not actually reduce the amount of blue light if you measure it.
Unfortunately I never saw any replies or sources, and looking for discussions
about that subject were unsuccessful.

Does anybody have any actual knowledge that could support or refute that
claim?

 _PS: I hate it when people make claims like that and don 't even attempt to
support it. Now I'm still looking for an answer months later._

~~~
kirillseva
I think it was in f.lux's blog that while f.lux does reduce amount of blue
light, apple's built-in night mode (the one on your iphone for example)
didn't.

Can't find source now.

~~~
jve
I started searching around. Could it be this reply within forum?
[https://forum.justgetflux.com/topic/4056/blue-light-
screen-b...](https://forum.justgetflux.com/topic/4056/blue-light-screen-
blocker/9)

Contains a link where a graph (which I don't understand) is almost identical
with and without sleep shield.

    
    
      lorna F.LUX TEAM Aug 17, 2017, 5:48 AM
      And here is the same iPad with one of the many filters that claim to help sleep (unless they are a deep orange, most of them do absolutely nothing): https://fluxometer.com/rainbow/#!id=iPad%20Pro/6500K-iPad%20Pro&filter=filter/SleepShield
    

But that SleepShiled looks like is a physical device actually.

[https://www.amazon.com/SleepShield-iPad-Blue-Light-
Filter/pr...](https://www.amazon.com/SleepShield-iPad-Blue-Light-
Filter/product-reviews/B00ILZCTH8)

------
ArtWomb
Blue LED inventor and Nobel Physics Laureate Shuji Nakamura was my former
classmate at UF MSE back in the late 1990s. At the time a pioneering
institution in MOCVD of wide-bandgap GaN. Even back then there was a sense
this would be a world-changing materials discovery.

And we may be on the cusp of the next brilliant revolution in lighting
displays with solid-state Graphene. The graphene / graphene-oxide boundary
represents a near infinite bandgap differential. And with a controlled applied
voltage, can be tuned to any color in the visible spectrum and beyond.

Combined with extensive end user testing in the Human Psychology Lab this
could very well lead to a breakthrough.

In my own experience the most glaring is the 5am wake up time. When pupils are
dilated. And you are checking any overnight messages from Asia or Europe.
Occasionally Nite Mode will simply fail to register and you get a good blast
of photons directly on a still sleepy and sensitive retinal plane. Long term
repeated exposures can't be a good thing.

------
Tsiklon
I have a hatred of blue LEDs on household equipment, they always seem to be
significantly brighter than their red/green/orange counterparts.

For example: If I need to leave my computer running overnight running a job, I
have to tape over or block the power button in order to get a decent night's
sleep as it has a nasty habit of utterly illuminating the room - the hard disk
activity light is much more tolerable.

~~~
Sharlin
The terrible thing about blue leds is that, even though our daytime vision is
by far the least sensitive to blue light, our low-light vision is the complete
opposite!

~~~
Tsiklon
It even manages to be brighter than White light.

------
blunte
Here's a long personal (boring) story of my experience with different light
colors.

Back when CFL bulbs were becoming a thing, I discovered with joy how much less
irritated my eyes were (and how much more relaxed my mind was) when I used
CFLs with high color temps - "daylight" temps around 6300K compared to the
_piss yellow_ color of typical incandescent bulbs. At first the "blue" light
was shocking, but after a moment of adjustment it became so pleasing and
illuminating.

So I fully embraced that for years, gleefully moving to LEDs with similar
color temps. My last office had my custom made shelf all the way around the
room that had upward firing LED strips. It was awesome!

But then, after an unfortunate several months of insane crunch-time work, I
started having eye problems... many different weird things happening with my
eyes, from focus issues to strange pressure feelings.

I did an about face and shifted my monitors to more red, at much lower
brightness, and with dark mode UIs where possible. Then I turned off the super
awesome daylight LED strips and just used one yellower little LED lamp behind
my monitor to provide a bit of desk surface light. Almost instantly my eye
issues went away. I was still working far too many hours each day, staring at
my screens. The only change was brightness and color of all my light sources.

My ability to sleep didn't seem to change, but my mind was always too busy to
fall asleep anyway. So I can't claim that changing colors improved my sleep.
It did, however, seem to stop harming my eyes.

------
blackbrokkoli
I just want to say that the links to cancer, obesity and even some of the
sleep problems are probably concluded from correlation, not experiments (since
you can't say: hey you, please only use orange screens for the next 30 years
and then we scan you for cancer X).

And I think this is a problem, since you can't now for sure that wether the
cause is blue light or the lifestyle people who are exposed to a lot of blue
light have (staying up late, long office jobs, who knows?).

To be clear, I do not refute the harm of blue light, I just want to suggest
being cautious with the broader health effect claims.

------
llampx
It is amazing to me that colors of instrument readouts is not regulated, when
the research is extremely clear that red and orange (and yellow) are much
better for night vision than white, blue and green. Add to that the huge
screens in most cars these days and you have a recipe for night blindness
caused by just looking at your infotainment screen for a second and not seeing
a pedestrian due to the ghost image left on your retina.

~~~
freehunter
I get the same thing in my city with digital billboards. I can't believe it's
legal for them to show pure white backgrounds at night, especially flipping
from a mostly dark background. Driving down the road when suddenly a massive
billboard floods your eyes with bright-as-day pure white light... not a good
thing.

~~~
gascan
That one is usually regulated at the city level. You might talk to your city
council. There are many, many good reasons to disallow that kind of lighting,
it could be it just hasn't been on your city's radar yet.

------
gnicholas
It would be useful to know what percent of the population is affected by this.
I look at my computer/phone up until I go to bed, and I’ve not seen any
adverse effects. It’s an N or 1, but surely I’m not the only person who
doesn’t experience the negative effects this article warns about.

------
knolan
Blue LEDs are a relatively recent thing, we’ve had decades of green and red
LEDs on our gadgets and I’d expect the trend to balance out over time. RGB
seems to be going through it’s thing and at least if you’ve got an RGB
keyboard you can dial in whatever hue you like.

------
kurthr
I find it sort of funny that the article describes all screens (and even
lighting) as touchscreens in the title. I guess that is a sign of their
ubiquity.

Blue started as a difficult color to make (and it still wears OLED screens
much faster) and became a symbol of modernity. It also creates an interesting
halo effect in most lenses (even our eyes) because we can't focus it well.

------
jchaps21
I've used Apple's Nightshift feature since it launched, and although I'm not
sure about any changes to sleep patterns or general health affects, it does
help reduce my eye strain at night. It's also interesting to see how quickly I
become used to the colour shift, and how artificial the interface looks if I
turn Nightshift off during the night.

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lepouet
i agree for leds, car displays and things like that, but for people who use
their devices to looks at mostly calibrated pictures
(photography/graphism/art/etc.) the warming displays functionality at night is
not an option...

~~~
ItsMe000001
How about not doing color-sensitive work _at night_? "Night". Even only
looking at biological systems, the body shifts to a very different regime
during that time. Different hormones and all that, doing repairs and house
cleaning. Humans don't come from a nocturnal line of animals.

------
jacknews
Amber Case advocating for orange UI displays?

Hmmm.

She does make a good, er, case, for change though, and I like her work.

~~~
AndyMcConachie
It took me awhile to get your joke, but once I did I couldn't stop giggling to
myself.

