

Smart Working at Credit Suisse - 2000 workspaces for 2500 employees - pstadler
http://www.officesnapshots.com/2012/02/10/credit-suisses-zurich-offices-smart-working-concept-office/

======
ctdonath
Great and clever if you can, and do on an hourly basis, pack your entire
office into a briefcase - and can stand working in a cafe environment for
prolonged periods. Obviously made for a building full of on-the-go types for
whom a fixed office is a waste of space.

But not for those of us who can't shove our dual- or giant-monitor quad-core
computers and sprawled testing platforms into a briefcase. Nor for those who
settle in 8-12 hours a day, 5-8 days a week, to the same chair and no desire
to hunt around for a different one because someone moved into "yours". Nor for
those who don't take irrelevant noise/distractions well (as I sit across the
hall from a factory).

Ya know, I'd like to see a slick photo layout/montage of developer's _offices_
, ya know those things with walls that go to the ceiling, doors that close,
opaque walls, and windows that reveal a view that's inspirational to
creativity & productivity.

~~~
spolsky
Here ya go: <http://www.fogcreek.com/careers.html>

(Scroll to the bottom of the page for a slideshow of Fog Creek's setup with
individual private offices for developers)

~~~
mhurron
I love how the system admins look like they're just stuffed in what would have
otherwise been a closet.

~~~
gergles
Yeah, that part of Fog Creek has always amused me to no end. _~Developers~_
are special and unique snowflakes who need a private office and a personal
happy-ending masseuse, but sysadmins can work from the bottom of a shoebox,
because fuck those guys, right?

~~~
asolove
Have you ever met a sysadmin? This actually looks like the exact office most
of the ones I know would want.

~~~
gergles
I _am_ a sysadmin, and I can guarantee that I would much much much prefer a
private office to a shoebox in the basement with somebody else crammed in
there.

~~~
gaius
The work of the modern sysadmin is nearly indistinguishable from that of the
developer.

------
gaius
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it

<http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.02/chiat_pr.html>

~~~
zackzackzack
Read that entire article. Well worth it. Did it say what year this was in? I
think you could infer from the "Think Different" campaign and other tidbits
mentioned, but I wasn't really sure.

~~~
gaius
Believe the article was from the early 00's.

~~~
recycleme
"Nonetheless, on the first workday of 1994..."

~~~
blahedo
The article was July 2002, the events narrated were mid-90s.

------
twelvechairs
Providing a variety of nice spaces that aren't "desk with computer" so people
can meet each other, discuss things, find a quiet corner to think - Great!

Using it as an excuse to save on 'seats', trying to get everyone to hotdesk
(meaning staff feeling undervalued and resentful, storage problems, not
knowing where people will be found, many other time issues, and probably heaps
more money on laptops, support staff, etc.) - Bad idea!

~~~
joelhaasnoot
This is actually a trend that's slowly getting bigger. It's a varieties of
measures, combined to what we in the Netherlands call "The new work" (that's
literally, it's more like "the new way of working", but that's less catchy).
Also has ideas from the "coworking movement".

Hotdesking by itself definately doesn't work - some employees will value the
safety of their own desk. Just hotdesking leads to things like "That's my
hotdesk", or people leaving their stuff about. The trick is to combine it with
the notion of working where you want when you want. Sales people may be better
off with hotdesking at (for instance) Regus facilities. Traffic jams and
congestion are huge issues here: compensate employees with public transport
passes instead or let them work 10-18. It's a culture change - not a perfect
fit for all companies, will be met by resistance, but it is the future I
think.

~~~
twelvechairs
Yes - there is a lot about the traditional 9-5 5-day week, 1-desk-space
mindset which could do with a rethink (especially in big corporate firms).

Its headlines like 'x fewer desks' which really annoy me though. This is
putting the focus on changing your workplace as a way to save money, which is
bad. Far more important is showing employees a good environment and keeping
them happy. Building and land costs are actually fairly low compared to the
damage that trying to penny-pinch (or just not thinking it through) can do...

(disclaimer: I design buildings for a living, though workspace design like
this is not my field)

------
blumentopf
A documentary film on nightmarish office spaces like the one depicted here was
recently released by German director Carmen Losmann:

Work hard - Play hard (2011)

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeLY9y6VP2U>

<http://www.hupefilm.de/dokumentarfilm/workhard_playhard.php>

------
leoedin
"Flexible working" was the Ministry of Defence (UK)'s solution for
overcrowding while I was working there. Result? People just worked at the same
desk anyway. The junior people (ie me) had to move around a lot to fill in
gaps when someone was absent.

This looks to be quite a different approach. Lots of little corners that you
can tuck yourself away in. I'm not sure I'd like to work in that environment
though. A big desktop monitor is useful, and working with a laptop actually on
your lap is really uncomfortable. I'd imagine that if I was in that
environment I'd either stick to a proper desk all the time or find that I
wasn't really getting much actual work done while I lounged on a sofa.

------
efsavage
Many people spend all of their time in meetings, and I think it makes perfect
sense to allocate their office space to meeting space. As a developer, most of
those are completely non-productive environments.
[http://www.officesnapshots.com/wp-
content/uploads/2012/02/CS...](http://www.officesnapshots.com/wp-
content/uploads/2012/02/CS080.jpg) would be good, or perhaps even
[http://www.officesnapshots.com/wp-
content/uploads/2012/02/CS...](http://www.officesnapshots.com/wp-
content/uploads/2012/02/CS071.jpg).

~~~
raverbashing
This is very important

For some people, like programmers, they "run on quiet time". This is our
effective work, we do meetings, sure, but it's an exception. To work we need a
quiet environment (or good headphones - I absolutely don't regret buying my
latest pair)

For managers, their work is that: meetings, talking to people, etc. So it
makes sense that you have meeting rooms, it's what they need for their work.

~~~
mr_luc
Earplugs, man.

I got turned on to the joy of earplugs when doing construction work. The foam
ones that you scrunch up with your fingers and expand in your ear, and throw
away after.

It's a very different feeling. I feel like I'm underwater when I'm wearing
them.

I worked at a wonderful agency with an open-plan office last time. I used
earplugs the whole time and loooved it. You get all of the benefits of an
open-plan office, minus the distractions of music or chatter, and for me at
least, less of the ear-sweat I associate with all headphones.

Also, anecdotal evidence -- people seem somewhat more hesitant to interrupt
someone wearing earplugs than someone who's listening to music. I might be
wrong there.

~~~
raverbashing
Yes, earplugs are amazing! I've used them once.

Especially when you're in "hostile space" (read: customer) they're great and
no one will bother you.

In-ear headphones work almost as good if you mute the sound.

------
larsberg
Totally unrelated to the beautiful pictures in this post, but I was recently
talking to a Credit Suisse employee who mentioned they'd made a large move to
F#. I'm not a big fan of working in finance, but that's a much bigger selling
point for me than plants (which I'm probably allergic to) surrounding
uncomfortable-looking chairs.

~~~
m0nastic
Luca Bolognese (who was on the F# team at Microsoft, and who gave the first
talk on F# that I ever watched) left Microsoft to go to Credit Suisse, so that
makes sense.

As to other financial firms using F#, Don Syme (the F# lead) posts F# job
listings on his blog, and many of them are at finance companies:

<http://blogs.msdn.com/b/dsyme/archive/tags/f_2300_+jobs/>

------
simonbarker87
The BBC have a similar approach at the new Media City development. On the
surface it seems like a neat idea but in reality humans needs a place to call
their own in some way, even if we start off as a nomadic civilisation even
back then we would have has something to call ours that demarked our "space".

I think the idea is nice but people should have the ability to have some
territory if that choose to

~~~
quantumstate
I can't think of any cultures which are nomadic by choice. Peoples such as the
Mongols and Bedouin come from desert regions where resources are too low
density to sustain static groups.

------
Tarks
I work as a consultant for CS, it's weird when your workplace pops up on HN.

We have one of these on the 18th floor in London too, it's so out of place
with the rest of the building but it's super awesome, we sneak up there for
lunches etc.

I don't think any devs would be able to use this as just getting permissions +
your box in order would be a nightmare here, unless you were logging into a vm
or your usual machine.

Most devs have pretty good setups here, here's mine
<http://i.imgur.com/QoK8F.jpg> (I am aware of KVMs, I just think this looks
cooler ^_^)

------
antidoh
For mobile people, fine, probably.

But if you look around any traditional office, you see personalization. People
tend to merge with their environments. People tie themselves to their
environment. They make their work part of their lives.

If you can't personalize, you're less tied and more prone to leave. In any
case, I would probably leave, because I'm non-assertive and it would be
stressful to me to compete with everyone _every day_ for work space. I don't
want to think about work space, I just want to work. If I have to, I'll work
somewhere else.

------
Jun8
OK, call me weird but I didn't like these digs. How to articulate what I find
wrong with them ... they look banker-y, MBA-y, wanna-be-the-only-way-is-up-
lets-meet-after-work-in-a-sports-bar-y.

I like spaces with a lived-in feeling, you should be able to change the places
of chairs, tables etc. and not totally screw up the feng shui aesthetic chic
of the environment. Also, I hate those cool chairs with flimsy legs, for some
reason I tend to break those legs when I fidget on them.

If I ever have a chance to lead a company, I would give a fixed (small) amount
of money (e.g. $500) for furniture (except chair, that costs too much) to each
new hire, show them an empty space and let them design it. I think a good
programmer/hacker would do a great job with this.

------
fpp
Now compare this with an UBS trading room:

<http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikaelv/29636880/>

~~~
paperwork
Is this the one in Stamford? I've been there! In one corner there used to be a
group of traders who had at least 8 monitors (often more!). The second
interesting thing about them was that they were what remained of Enron, after
that company blew up.

By the way, these people are traders. Developers generally don't work on that
floor.

~~~
fpp
Correct - that's the Stamford steamer

with regard to the Enron thing: The very few ones that - in the moment - are
taking in new people in the "Greater" City area are the commodity guys - all
the others, as it seems, are getting ready to "letting go" in multiples of
that trading floor.

------
shin_lao
I think having both can be clever.

People often on the go don't really need a permanent desk, whereas more
sedentary jobs benefit from having their space.

------
pstadler
More information in this press release: [https://responsibility.credit-
suisse.com/app/article/index.c...](https://responsibility.credit-
suisse.com/app/article/index.cfm?fuseaction=OpenArticle&aoid=342116&coid=64291&lang=EN)

------
mark_l_watson
That seems like a really good idea. I am assuming that some of the working
nooks have large screen displays with laptop adapters handy. Also having
charging cords for laptops, phones, etc. would make things more convenient.

------
smnl
Very interesting that that looks more like a tech startup than a bank office

Especially in contrast to CS's NYC office, which is a very old fashioned
investment banking/trading floor type office

------
recycleme
As long as there is a private room I can work in then it's all good. I don't
mind picking up my laptop and looking for a new place to think, but privacy is
key.

------
wizzard
I was enjoying the slideshow until I got completely distracted by the pool
table shot. The arrangement of the pool cues made me irrationally angry.

------
jstanley
I like having my own desk where I can keep my own keyboard and mouse and pages
of notes.

------
nraynaud
I love Vitra.

