
June Intelligent Oven - uptown
https://juneoven.com/
======
bootload
Does it recognise all my food?

 _" Food ID uses the camera and sensors to recognize commonly cooked foods.
The camera communicates with the NVIDIA K1 Quad-Core ARM Cortex and the NVIDIA
Kepler GPU with 192 CUDA cores."_ ~
[http://support.juneoven.com/article/69-how-does-food-id-
work...](http://support.juneoven.com/article/69-how-does-food-id-work-does-it-
really-recognize-all-my-food)

How about an oven that:

\- cleans easier?

\- use less energy?

\- stop me getting burnt while extracting trays?

\- have simple ergonomic controls?

\- in-built smoke detection?

\- a loud timer?

\- warms up faster?

These are all real-world problems that don't require software/hardware looking
for a problem. I'm disappointed when I see the novelty approach taken to to
solving problems of cooking. I thought this was already achieved with the
microwave?

Instead what I would really like to see is a way to determine if food is going
off, contaminated and where it comes from. This kind of food-tech would rock!

~~~
pcl
_\- warms up faster?_

The website claims a pretty fast pre-heat time of just under 5 minutes, which
is probably mostly attributable to the compact size -- a smaller volume can be
heated faster. I didn't notice anything about how the heating element works
ongoing, though, so it's unclear whether that's just the time to heat the
volume of air, or if the walls and ceiling are kicking off enough radiation to
sustain cooking at that point. I'd assume the latter, given the price tag.

 _\- use less energy?_

I would expect this oven to use less energy than a traditional home oven,
since they advertise consistent heating and good insulation, both of which
tend to be lacking in most home kitchens. Again, the small volume will be an
energy saver as well.

 _\- have simple ergonomic controls?_

They claim that it'll recognize the food when you put it in, and prepare it to
your requested style based on their computer vision and machine learning
algorithms.

~~~
bootload
_" They claim that it'll recognize the food when you put it in, and prepare it
to your requested style based on their computer vision and machine learning
algorithms."_

Speed & energy, maybe. Simple, no. Computer + Oven = Computer. [0] The
potential for cognitive friction is high for Homo Sapiens.

[0] A play on the Alan Cooper question: _" Q. What do you get when you cross a
computer with a (Foo)? A. Computer"_ \-- Inmates running the Asylum, pp 3-14.

------
compumike
There's a market developing here within the "temperature controlled smart
cooking" world, with the number of different engineering approaches growing
rapidly. Y Combinator alone has funded three companies in this space already!

Pantelligent (YC W13) - $199 -
[https://www.pantelligent.com/](https://www.pantelligent.com/) \- smart frying
pan plus smartphone app. Recipes are smart software & give you instructions to
adjust on the fly to provide perfect results every time. Works for any dish
you can cook in a frying pan (steak, salmon, eggs, veggies, ...).

Cinder (YC W15) - $499 - [https://cindercooks.com/](https://cindercooks.com/)
\- electric grill style countertop appliance with smart recipes on smartphone.

Nomiku (YC W15) - $249 / $199 pre-order -
[http://www.nomiku.com/](http://www.nomiku.com/) \- sous-vide water bath
immersion circulator

June Oven - $2995 / $1495 pre-order -
[https://juneoven.com/](https://juneoven.com/) \- countertop electric oven
style

Consumers have a wide range of options and that's pretty amazing, because
fundamentally, the technology (temperature controlled cooking) works great and
it's something I believe a lot of people are going to want to have in their
home. It's like "process control 101" \-- time and temperature -- finally made
it to the kitchen.

(Disclosure: I'm an engineer & co-founder of Pantelligent. Words can not
convey just how delicious a Pantelligent-cooked salmon or steak is. Paul
Graham said, "This pan made the best salmon I've ever cooked. In fact, better
than I've had in almost any restaurant." If you're skeptical, check out some
of our hands-on reviews; we were recently on NBC TODAY Show, CBS This Morning,
and Popular Science's "Top 10 Inventions of 2015". And if you're still
skeptical and live in the SF Bay Area, email visit @ pantelligent.com and
we'll see if we can schedule a visit to our Sunnyvale warehouse so you can try
it out for yourself!)

~~~
lambdaelite
With the exception of the immersion circulator, I don't understand these
devices. Can you help me understand?

I'm an experienced cook, so (again, with the exception of the immersion
circulator) I'm not in the target market for these devices. I'm having trouble
understanding the target market though. I was thinking that it was for
inexperienced people who want to cook at home. When I play that scenario
through my head, it doesn't completely work.

Take your salmon example: getting the pan to a good temperature and cooking
the fish to the ideal temperature is not easy, so I can see how an
inexperienced person could easily benefit from real-time temperature feedback.
What I'm having trouble figuring out though, is that after gaining experience
from cooking fish a few times, what's the benefit of the real-time temperature
feedback? I guess the thing I'm wrestling with is that as one becomes more
experienced, the value of these smart devices seems to rapidly diminish.

I don't intend this to be negative or harsh, so I hope it doesn't come across
that way. I'm genuinely interested in the thinking behind this smart device
trend. Hope you can share.

~~~
rtfeldman
I'm exactly the target market for this. I never learned how to cook meat
growing up (I got by with sandwiches and salads and the like), but now as an
adult I find myself in situations like the following:

Last week my significant other and I decided to cook dinner together (for a
change; usually we don't). We were both interested in salmon, but neither of
us knew how to cook it, so we ended up doing something else.

My status quo options are: (1) don't cook salmon, (2) cook salmon and most
likely screw it up—hardly the best way to start an evening together, or (3)
take cooking classes.

An appliance that unlocks option (4) cook salmon and have it most likely turn
out delicious on the first try? Yes. I will eagerly pay money for that.

Even assuming over time I no longer need the device, the reality is that I'd
much rather pay this one-time upfront cost than expend a bunch of time trying
and failing or taking classes in order to develop a skill I'm not passionate
about.

~~~
jotux
Why is getting it right on the first try the only acceptable outcome? If you
try, fail a few times, and eventually learn it will still be dramatically
cheaper than buying any of these machines. And once you learn it will become a
transferable skill -- you won't be tied to only being able to prepare your
food when you're home with your specialized device.

~~~
fr0styMatt2
So much this. The fear of failure in cooking is a bit like the fear of failure
in maths ("I'm just bad at maths") or fearing technology ("I'd never be good
at computers!").

I do get it. It feels extremely wasteful to throw out a ruined meal. Many
people are taught from very young that the stove is 'dangerous' and that hot
pans are something to be feared. It's potentially really really embarrassing
to ruin a meal for guests, etc.

It's a fear of experimentation though, which is a shame.

FWIW I'm a kitchen gadget nut as much as the next person - this could be a
really good tool for convenience, not criticizing it at all in that way.

~~~
semi-extrinsic
On the other hand, there's nothing cooler than having friends over for dinner
and being able to say "yeah, I've never tried making this before, but it
turned out great". Fortune favours the bold.

------
VLM
I think you could make a lot of money branching out into reflow oven land.
Provide degrees C and controlled ramp up and ramp down rates. Time lapse video
of the solder reflowing. Twitter integration "Hey I just reflowed a SMD PCB"

Clearly you can make more profit off an individual reflow oven than an
individual glorified toaster oven. Although you can sell more toaster ovens
than reflow ovens. Well, probably. HOWEVER the insightful part is the reflow
oven model is the same hardware with a different software load and probably a
custom sticker that says something like "never for use with food after
interior is contaminated" or similar. There may be some OSHA or FCC/EMI recert
issues to sell a reflow oven (semi-)commercially instead of as a home toaster
oven, but its probably pretty small potato costs.

There are, of course, competitors in the world of toaster oven sized SMD
reflow ovens. But this is a nice looking oven. However "The suggested MSRP for
the June Intelligent Oven is $2,995" and even in reflow oven land thats kinda
steep.

Also talk to a metal worker who does powder coating. Another "converted
toaster oven" job with peculiar temp control and ventilation issues. Again,
you're a simple new software load on the same old hardware away from a new
product in a new market. I believe powder coating would be pretty rough on the
optics and the glass door, but it might work anyway if the user is careful.

I suspect your hardware can't handle it but a desktop kiln for ceramics or
enameling artwork is an interesting idea.

Finally how good is your low temp control, could you "air sous vide" or just
provide a stable environment for rising bread? low temp stability is harder
than you'd think, probably. You may already be able to do this, it just didn't
make the cut to the website.

------
zoba
Any idea why an oven needs an "NVIDIA Tegra K1 with 2.3 GHz quad-core
processor and 192 CUDA GPU cores"? Seems like overkill?

~~~
jcromartie
To stream video from the full HD camera. Now, any idea why an oven needs a
full HD camera?

~~~
danbruc
To be able to identify the food you put into it using machine vision. Now, any
idea why an oven needs to identify the food you put into it?

~~~
athenot
Image recognition with visible spectrum is pretty limited. I can put a egg-
based or sugar-based glaze on something and it will turn brown faster, without
making the meat cook any faster.

What might be more interesting is a gas-phase chromatography which analyses
the vapors and deduces the various reactions going on. But that's going to be
severely over-kill (and incredibly priced).

~~~
nightski
Well in the video it used a temperature probe to detect when the meat was
done, then it cranked up the heat to brown. So in that scenario your glaze
would be just fine.

But I am not defending this product. It may find a market but it would not be
for me. I have been learning to cook through trial and error and find it fun
and rewarding. Not only that, it really doesn't take that much time.

------
adam-a
Seems like a fun idea, and it potentially allows really precise cooking with
the internal probes too. Hopefully they don't go to overboard with the social
media and wireless connection and focus on making something practical in the
kitchen.

For example, including over the air updates. I am imagining an XBox like
scenario where you just want to cook dinner but you have to wait 20 minutes
for it to update.

~~~
profinger
You just saying that has elevated my blood pressure. Firefox does the same
thing. GRRR haha

------
lambdaelite
At first glance it looks really neat, but I was disappointed to see that this
doesn't have combi oven functionality. For the price I would guess this would
retail at, I wouldn't be willing to buy this over a combi oven.

edit: I missed that the MSRP is $3000. I was right, I'm not willing to
consider this over a (for example) nice built-in Wolf combi oven in the same
price bracket. I'll also argue most people would be better served with a combi
oven over this device. There are some neat ideas here, but I don't get the
appeal.

~~~
bryantraywick
I have been thinking the same thing. For this price, for a so-called "smart"
oven, there is no excuse that it's not a combi or cvap oven. I wouldn't
consider purchasing any standalone oven appliance for this price unless it was
combi or cvap.

Before any other "smart" features I'd want:

* Precise temperature control between ~100 _F-450_ F

* Precise humidity control from 0%-100% relative humidity

* Dry bulb temperature, wet bulb temperature, and an internal temperature probe (preferably up to 2 internal probes).

* High temperature sear/broil

If you want it to be "smart" then forget the camera identification and allow
me simply select "roast chicken" and have it cook to an internal temperature
of ~155 _F (165_ F if you so choose) at 100% humidity before automatically
turning the humidity down to 0% and switching to broil to crisp the skin.

~~~
lifekaizen
That's how we built our app, you tell Cinder it's chicken and it's the
time/temperature profile. You can also manually control temperature precisely
from 70F to 525F, and the even high heat sear has amazed many chefs. We looked
at steam but it's challenging because water reservoirs limit cooking time, or
running plumbing is beyond reach for most homes (but something restaurants
do). I'd like to build one in the future. Meanwhile, Cinder is $499 (email me
for a HackerNews discount: eric@cindercooks.com).

------
choward
So it's "smart" and costs $3,000. Are there public APIs or am I at the
complete mercy of their software?

~~~
dmix
So many of these consumer products and "IoT" deprioritize public APIs, it's a
shame... They are missing out on potentially huge sub-communities.

------
outsidetheparty
> Like cruise control on your car, June continually calculates the power
> needed to maintain a constant temperature

So you say it has a thermostat in it, then?

> Food cooks faster while using less energy than traditional ovens

So you say it's a convection oven, then?

> June sends you a push notification when your food is done. And you can
> customize your alerts so you aren’t disturbed you when you’re away from
> home.

So you say I can disable the alert... that tells me dinner is ready... because
I'm away from... um. Somebody didn't really think this one through, then?

~~~
dragonwriter
> > Like cruise control on your car, June continually calculates the power
> needed to maintain a constant temperature

> So you say it has a thermostat in it, then?

Having a thermostat is not the same as continuously maintaining a constant
temperature. Typical "dumb" ovens have thermostats, but they maintain a
_rough_ temperature by turning on, overshooting the target temperature,
cutting the heat entirely, dropping substantially under the target
temperature, and repeating that cycle.

> So you say I can disable the alert... that tells me dinner is ready...
> because I'm away from... um. Somebody didn't really think this one through,
> then?

There's often more than one person who lives in a home and may use an oven.
Its quite possible for one of them to be away from home and not want
notifications, while another is at home and using the oven.

------
ykl
I want to hear John Syracusa do a review of this oven.

~~~
MBCook
I saw people mentioning him in tweets about this thing yesterday. The review
of a Hamilton Beach from yesterday's ATP was good.

------
TheMagicHorsey
I wish they would give us the specs for the actual oven hardware ... as
opposed to the specs for the computer in it.

~~~
pbreit
Yeah, it was weird to keep hearing about the Nvidia whatever which to me seems
totally irrelevant to anything (and super un-Apple/Path-like).

------
mumrah
I'm skeptical how a small form factor oven like this could provide even
heating that is required for many kinds of baking, even if it has convection
fans. Also, having such a small volume means that most of the heat will escape
when the door opens making it difficult to get that crucial "oven spring" for
bread baking.

It seems like a perfectly acceptable (albeit pricy) alternative to a toaster
over, however.

~~~
lambdaelite
> Also, having such a small volume means that most of the heat will escape
> when the door opens...

Supposedly, there's an air curtain to help with that problem.

> It seems like a perfectly acceptable (albeit pricy) alternative to a toaster
> over, however.

It may be an alternative to a toaster oven, but is that a good thing? Even the
best toaster oven isn't very good, if you go by testing by Cooks Illustrated
for example. I don't see how this one can perform any better given, as you
point out, the physics limitations of a small oven.

------
nviennot
This reminds me of my DIY reflow oven:
[http://viennot.com/reflow_oven.pdf](http://viennot.com/reflow_oven.pdf)

------
Animats
It's a reasonable idea, but it needs to cost $300 instead of $3000. Expect
clones to be available in Shentzen at that price point by next year.

~~~
compumike
Yes and no; pure hardware clones are one thing, but high quality software,
content, customer education about a new product category, and marketing are
not categories that cloners have (yet) done particularly well. Beyond that,
hardware lends itself to hard IP protection -- Pantelligent's technology is
patent pending, and it's likely that other smart cooking products are as well.

------
cottonseed
> Reaches 350°F in 4 minutes and 15 seconds.

Not going to work as a reflow oven, unfortunately.

------
advertising
Seems superfluous. The instagram upload of the cookies was a̶n̶ ̶e̶y̶e̶
̶r̶o̶l̶l̶e̶r̶ well placed,

------
jqm
I'm holding out for a kitchen system that orders and stocks the food, fetches
it from the fridge, (at the touch of a button) prepares and plates it and then
(most importantly) washes the dishes and puts them away.

This current oven incarnation seems like more bother and expense than it would
be worth. More stuff to get in the way and break. Not KISS at all. But then
again I'm a good (and fast) cook and simply can't see how the smart oven would
do anything to help.

To be charitable, maybe this technological step is necessary to realize the
dream of fully automated food preparation. I fully expect one day to see this
dream fulfilled. And from this perspective a hearty round of applause for the
inventors.

------
warvair
"Over the air updates" via wi-fi? For an oven... I'm feeling a little
luddite-y.

------
joshcanhelp
I've been a huge fan of toaster ovens for as long as I've been heating up food
and just can't seem to find one that does what it needs to do well. It toasts
too slow or it's the wrong size or heats unevenly. Seems like a simple problem
to fix but I've been through 5 different ones over the last decade+ with
mostly lame results.

As such, this is _very_ appealing to me. I haven't owned a microwave in
several years so the ability to reheat something while I'm somewhere else in
the house is fantastic. A little pricey for me (not saying anything about the
value, just a lot to spend) but I might just go for it.

~~~
lambdaelite
If you trust Cooks Illustrated, Breville's top end toaster oven ($250 on
Amazon Prime) is at the top for toaster oven performance and works well. Have
you tried that one?

Personally, I'm more interested in auditioning Cuisinart's mini combi oven
($300 on Amazon Prime) before going all in on a built-in, but I haven't read
any reviews I trust yet.

------
malandrew
I don't know about this, but I would love a secure peripheral for controlling
my oven over the internet that also had high quality thermometers.

I particularly enjoy slow cooking meat all day, but need to budget time to
come home before it nears my target temperature. If I could measure the
temperature of the meat remotely and adjust my oven, that would be awesome (or
even set a limit at which the oven will stop cooking and lower the temperature
to keep the meat warm only).

What I don't want is to buy an entire oven. I want to be able to buy a high
quality oven/range like a Wolf and use such a device with a high quality oven
of my choice.

------
roel_v
While the camera is useful if the image recognition works well, I don't see
this things being as good as one of my Miele ovens. They heat up faster, have
many automatic programs including with temperature probe, and with the steam
oven I can cook vegetables and other things as well.

That said, there is a lot of room on the software side to improve. I have 100
ideas that are 'easy' to implement that could life the Miele range to another
level, but in my contacts with them, it seems like they are typical in that
they're very hardware focused.

------
nathan_long
Sensing the internal temperature of a roast and cooking until it's done is a
nice idea. Convection and aesthetics are good. Efficiency is good.

The HD camera, food detection, phone app, and touchscreen are waaaay overkill,
in my opinion.

I don't want to have to put my oven on the WiFi, and it shouldn't _need_
software updates. The useful functions ought to be simple enough to code once
and ship.

------
nathan_f77
This looks really awesome. I probably won't be an early adopter, but I'm
definitely looking forward to more smart kitchen appliances. I just hope they
can all work together. It's kind of stupid if my frying pan, oven, and fridge
all have their own competing recipe apps and databases.

------
phmagic
Reminds me of Ronco's products:

[https://www.ronco.com/products/rotisserie-
ovens/4000-stainle...](https://www.ronco.com/products/rotisserie-
ovens/4000-stainless-rotisserie.html)

Just set it and forget it

------
london888
Are we now going to have ovens with social media accounts?

~~~
jon-wood
Why not? You can have it Instagram your dinner without even having to take it
out of the oven.

~~~
anigbrowl
Cook double portions to make your friends and family think you met someone!

~~~
qq66
It's got a pretty nice GPU... instead of wasting food, it can just render an
image of a double portion of whatever you put in it.

------
colept
The warranty is only one year - not ideal for a $3000 counter top appliance.

------
crimsonalucard
I need something smart enough to beat the microwave.

------
petegrif
It's very ugly.

------
wumbernang
Another stupid product which exists for the sake of technology.

$3000 for a fucking oven. Seriously. For that you can get a professional
kitchen oven with decent warm up time, is easy to clean and serviceable for a
couple of decades without too much effort.

Also how does it see through the tinfoil over my chicken? Does it know the
difference between a sirloin and a rib eye?

Dear hardware startups: Stop taking random things and adding technology and
$2000 to shaft some cash off people with loose credit habits. Build stuff that
is fundamentally game changing. Now I know that's hard, and that's the point.

------
kolev
Another oversimplification of the culinary art, but this time - a costly one!

