
“Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice - bemmu
https://goinswriter.com/write-drunk/
======
cirgue
I had always heard this used as kind of a metaphor: do whatever the hell you
want to in writing, follow every thread, wander all over the place, believe
your own bullshit, and just get all the ideas out of you and onto the page.
When you edit, then it's time to worry about what your point actually is and
how your reader will understand it. It's a little weird to me that someone
would take this aphorism literally.

~~~
WhompingWindows
Former copy editor here, would not recommend this approach for writing
anything non-artistic. Imagine a coder or engineer following this
recommendation: no plan, no structure, just throwing ideas willy-nilly.
Eventually, you then have to sift through all the ideas, find what's good and
what gels, and then re-write to make it coherent, narrative, and logical.
You'll probably incur a lot of technical debt and overhead with this approach.

However, if you go into the initial phase with a goal/structure in mind,
you're going to be much closer to the final product after your first effort.
Many, many writers use outlines/plans. Something that happens a lot in
research is that articles are formulaic, they generally have the same sorts of
content, so writing them actually becomes easier once familiarity with the
structure is obtained.

I would say your approach could be useful for either an artistic format OR for
someone who is severely writers' blocked. If you truly have no idea what to
write, something is better than nothing. But generally speaking, having a
plan/outline is very useful.

~~~
nicky0
As a coder I do a lot of my best work with a beer or two.

~~~
sifoobar
There are better, less poisonous and destructive, drugs.

Is it really worth sacrificing your health for? It doesn't even taste nice
once you cut through the cultural programming to pretend otherwise.

~~~
SafetyThird
Having a beer or two is not "sacrificing your health". And if liking the taste
of alcoholic drinks counts as being "programmed", then so does every other
preference and desire human beings have.

~~~
sifoobar
But it is, alcohol is very poisonous; which is why you feel like shit and
loose your memory when you overdo it, and why it's so hard to hit just the
right amount of poisoning to feel funny without feeling sick.

Drinking poison that tastes like shit doesn't really happen without outside
pressure. That's not true of every other preference and desire.

But keep lying to yourself, not my problem.

------
egypturnash
Has this guy ever actually done any creative writing, or just written advice
books?

There is a _definite_ use for getting mildly buzzed as part of the creative
process. Alcohol makes it easier to turn off the part of your brain that
demands perfection and get a lot of stuff that may not be great but can be
_fixed_ rather than slowly trying to make one perfect sentence after another.
Weed is great for when you need to sit back and stare at the shape of your
whole plot and figure out how to get from where you are to where you want to
be; surprising and wonderful connections get made. Then you put it down, and
sober you comes back and finds the good parts. Weed is also pretty useful for
visual tasks; it makes it easier for me to sit there doing fiddly details on a
drawing without really seeing time pass. Sometimes it also gives me a power-up
to my visual cortex and I can start tracing what I see in my mind's eye
instead of the longer route of constructing stuff, but I don’t do that much as
it’s perilously close to the point where I am too high to function. And then
there’s people who claim that regular microdoses of LSD have lots of benefits
for both general braining and creativity. Never tried it myself but I can see
it helping.

You don’t have to get completely hammered to get useful creative effects. You
just have to hit the bottle or bong or whatever hard enough to have _some_
effect. And sometimes you can get in the groove without any chemical aid;
that’s great! But when you can’t, and there’s a deadline... there’s mind-
altering chemicals. Use them responsibly.

~~~
eigenstuff
I'm a professional sculptress who makes math and physics visualizations, weed
is indispensable to my creative process for exactly the reasons you described.
It helps me get into that state of flow faster, helps me better visualize
abstract concepts and figure out how to translate them into physical objects,
makes the boring repetitive parts more fun, and it helps me find more novel
and interesting solutions to different construction problems I encounter. I
never get stoned, just buzzed, because if I get stoned then I can't do
anything. And I really only smoke when I'm sitting down to get to work, I'm
not much of a recreational smoker at all. Weed is for business hours! If I
just wanna have fun, I'm gonna drink beer.

Alcohol has a pretty negative effect on my work, though. I get sloppy and it's
a terrible idea to play with sharp objects and permanent inks if you've been
drinking anyway. Loosening up and being unafraid to make things I think might
fail isn't something I really struggle with because my creative process is
super iterative and experimental. That one Ira Glass quote made me realize the
power of full-on wallowing in and relishing the ugly prototype stages of
things, so I do a lot of that knowing that after a few different versions to
work out the kinks and try some different approaches, I'll have something
really good on my hands. I love putting a final sculpture beside the ugly
prototype it began as and seeing how far it evolved, it's like looking at a
baby picture beside a picture of the successful, well-adjusted adult the baby
grew up to be. I can't help but take pride in both of them!

------
neurobashing
I used to do this so much. I'd get incredibly wasted and feel like I was
creating amazing art, I'd pass out from exhaustion (also, drugs and alcohol)
incredibly excited to show my bandmates what amazing insight I'd come up with.

Then I'd see it sober and be like, "'Club me with your love truncheon'? I
can't work with this. I can't ever even admit I wrote this. What the hell even
is this."

~~~
bovermyer
I used to do similar things, except in my case it was writing longform
"satire" while utterly trashed and posting it on social media.

When I'd read it in the morning, it just came across as me being a drunken
asshole. I became fond of the Delete Post button.

I also only write sober now.

~~~
ohrus
"Post drunk, delete sober" \- said no one ever ever ever.

------
KineticLensman
The article offers a binary choice between 'sober' and 'drunk' (my phrasing)
while developing art and says that 'drunk' art is bad because it glorifies
addiction and propagates the myth of creativity. It also equates art with work
where being under the influence is clearly unprofessional / dangerous.

Personally, I've found that an occasional beer - and some music - while
working on a piece of art (as an unwinding activity) can help me get into a
zone and sometimes seems to help me think creatively. If you drink so much
that you lose coordination or a sense of what is viable then clearly the
effects are negative, but I don't think it's as black of white as the article
suggests. I'd agree that if I was a professional artist (I'm not) who couldn't
work unless they were stoned, this would be clearly undesirable.

~~~
umichguy
Same here. I sometimes have a glass of wine or beer while working with some
music on and zone out and get some proper work done. Maybe it calms down my
hyperactive brain a bit - I did have ADHD as a kid and used to take meds.

Of course, there is a fine line between having a couple to calm down and
getting drunk, when you don't get stuff done.

------
clubm8
I think having a couple drinks or smoking a little weed can help you get the
seeds of ideas. But I'm not talking about whipping out a laptop in the bar.
More like telling yourself you're going to stop working for the night, have a
bowl, watch a movie, maybe surf HN or Reddit a bit and read whatever you want.
If you happen to have what feels like an idea or an aha moment, send yourself
a short email.

I've done this a few times to great success, but I attribute it more to
allowing myself an evening off to rest and relax rather than any specific
substance. I'm also talking about moderation not getting completely wasted.

------
setgree
I agree that being outright drunk is probably going to be bad for anything
that needs precision (or patience/grit). But:

> We would never say this of other crafts. You would never nod understandingly
> if a plumber came to your house, completely wasted, assuring you he’d return
> to clean up the mess when sober. That would be ridiculous.

We _do_ say this about other crafts. Musicians notoriously get drunk or high
when recording [0-1]. Lots of programmers report doing good work after a beer
[2]. I myself find that speaking Spanish gets way easier when buzzed. And so
on.

The point is to not overdo it.

[0] [https://pitchfork.com/features/profile/9683-cosmic-
neurotic-...](https://pitchfork.com/features/profile/9683-cosmic-neurotic-the-
heady-perfectionism-of-tame-impalas-kevin-parker/)

[1]
[https://web.archive.org/web/20101228123251/http://www.comple...](https://web.archive.org/web/20101228123251/http://www.complex.com/CELEBRITIES/Cover-
Story/kanye-west-project-runaway)

[2] [https://xkcd.com/323/](https://xkcd.com/323/)

------
foxhop
I _really_ like writing prose while high on editable cannabis. The end result
is rarely useful except to document my stream of conscious. I have a private
hg mercurial version control repository called "journal" that I have used for
the past 6 years.

It is very therapeutic and lots of creative ideas are stored away. Each year
gets it's own text file and I write in ReStructured Text just in case one day
I decide to make my journals public in PDF form or something. Not all entries
are influenced by mood enhancing drugs.

I have been known to read what I wrote the night before and swipe some of the
cooler ideas as a tweet or expand the idea as a full post on my public blog.

When I drink I don't usually find myself drawn to writing or coding.

I think the more inclusive version of this advise should be:

Write crazy, Edit sanely

------
gmoes
There’s some great comedy by the late Bill Hicks about his drug and alcohol
use and that by rock and roll bands like the Rolling Stones and The Beatles
and what music would sound like without drugs.

Not to disparage the author but I see he is selling a book called: Real
Artists Don’t Starve.

I haven’t read the book, I have to ask myself what if that was the approach
taken by Van Gogh? What would his art look like? My guess is probably pre-
Impressionist Manet.

Carl Sagan was a famous pot head who said something like re-evaluate the ideas
that you come up when you high after you’ve come down.

I find the ideas can flow when I drink. I have heard other people say that
that doesn’t happen for them.

There’s a great quote on the floor of the Guggenheim in New York: LET EACH MAN
EXERCISE THE ART HE KNOWS

I think it’s really, find what works for you.

------
scelerat
Completely misses the very important necessity of a creative process, which is
to work free of self-criticism.

Alcohol, which lowers inhibitions for a lot of people, can help with that.
That's not to say that everyone should, or even that anyone should _all the
time_ \-- but it can be a productive tool, just like taking a walk, reading a
book, or getting some sleep.

I think the larger point that the quippy aphorism is getting at is that one
should approach creative work with a sense of openness and abandon, before
tightening up and focusing on details. Entertain and explore the variety of
"YES" before committing to the bounding "NO"

------
ohrus
What kind of source of a man's life is a granddaughter?

I am in my mid-thirties with 3 kids. Perhaps someday I'll have a
granddaughter. It is unlikely that she will have a full picture of how I
conducted my life at any stage. What a strange way to support the debunking of
a quote. Also, I think his take is mostly wrong.

Writing and editing are two different worlds. The comparison with drunk/sober
works. Write with abandon, let the spirits, daemons, or whatever out onto the
page. Then go back, with clear, focused attention and sort that garbage out.

Not to say a glass of the hard stuff won't help the process along.

------
coldtea
Well, "terrible advice" if you want to have a clear mind for the tame trite
that passes for modern writing.

But it worked well for writers in the past, from Baudelaire and Artaud, to
Hemingway (who did wrote drunk), Lowry, Thompson, Miller, Bukowski, Burroughs,
and tons of others...

Of course if you want to merely tie sentences together in your Mac on some
Starbucks and never stray into self-destruction or anything resembling an
outside-the-mainstream experience, sure...

That said, drinking/drugs as an artistic pose can be even worse than no
drinking/drugs at all.

------
rewgs
If anything, I prefer the opposite. I can't write or be creative when I'm not
sober, even if I've had just a little alcohol and am in all other respects
sober. But, reviewing your work when inebriated can help you see it as another
person would. Flaws and successes both become far more obvious.

Obviously not something to rely on or to make a regular part of your life, but
hey, it's definitely a thing.

------
TheHeasman
I've read this article before and I got a little annoyed. I've never ever
heard "write drunk, edit sober" been advised in a literal context, but a
metaphorical context.

Write drunk - shitty first draft where you don't care.

Edit sober - reasonable editing done when you have a fresh pair of eyes.

Why on earth did the author take this advice literally?

~~~
DannyB2
Write Drunk, DEBUG Sober :-)

------
Brigadirk
Taken literally, I've learned that a bit of wine helps in writing, if and only
if I was already writing before I started drinking the wine. And not too much
wine.

------
bighi
This was never about being ACTUALLY drunk. You have to be drunk to believe it
is.

I think this is just an intellectually dishonest blog post trying to get some
easy clicks.

------
josu
Bukowski seems to have written drunk many times.

~~~
fsloth
Alcoholics can develop a tremendous tolerance to booze.

It does not mean anyone should emulate his lifestyle.

Bukowski describes his semi-fictional self Henry Chinaski as emotionally
broken person, who medicates his pain with alcohol, horse racing and the like.
He never actually glorifies this state of being, rather, he's brutally honest
about who he is and how he behaves.

There can be poetry in damage, but it's tragic beauty, and it's the sort of
beauty one should not try to emulate on purpose.

~~~
josu
Definitely, I wasn't trying to support the use of drugs to enhance creativity.
I wanted to point out that even though Hemingway could have been sober when he
wrote, it doesn't falsify that there have been drunk authors throughout
history. Being an addict is bad, that's unarguable.

------
asianthrowaway
Smoking weed is way better than getting drunk to enhance creativity (in my
experience).

