

Zed follows up on the search for Matt - astrec
http://www.zedshaw.com/blog/2008-10-30.html

======
Sam_Odio
The most interesting part of that post is Zed's commentary on reddit. As an
early reddit user I found it blunt, but it struck a chord none-the-less.

I think it's time to move the discussion from how reddit's different to how
news.yc is going to prevent the same thing from happening here. It's clear (at
least to me) that comment voting just promotes group-think.

It seems we have a few stop-gap solutions (i.e. moderation) but nothing yet
that's practical, elegant, and effective.

~~~
Harkins
I think the problem is humor.

It's fun, it gets you lots of upvotes because maybe it makes someone smile.
But it's too damn easy. It short-circuits real discussion with pop culture
references and snarkiness. Conversation is quickly suffocated when solid posts
are blanketed with 4chan memes as responses.

~~~
jlc
Hm. That's an interesting observation, but I respectfully disagree.

It comes down again to the quality of the comment. Is it a good humorous
comment (e.g., not cliched, satiric, perhaps humorous _and_ insightful, and so
on), or is it a bad humorous comment (e.g., stale, not actually funny)? Right
back where we started.

As Homer Simpson says, "When will people learn? Democracy just doesn't work."

------
qhoxie
You did the right thing Zed. Glad you at least have answers now.

~~~
bk
I agree. Especially since there's a socially conditioned stigma against
falling for a false alarm when trying to help. It seems to be seen as a
display of hysteria on the helper's part. That's why most people act "too
cool" to actually do something - better not risk that precious reputation.

Better a few false positives than a false negative.

~~~
kirubakaran
This was three years ago:
[http://kirubakaran.blogspot.com/2005/12/interesting-
evening....](http://kirubakaran.blogspot.com/2005/12/interesting-evening.html)
I still feel stupid for calling 911 (that I acted like some granny). You are
right on about the stigma.

~~~
ks
If you didn't do anything, you would have felt far worse. You did the right
thing.

------
cousin_it
Manipulation by pity is the single human quality I hate the most. It might be
possible to build a complete personality on avoiding to manipulate others,
ever; I'm trying to.

~~~
gruseom
I think the will to eschew manipulation of others is an admirable one.

You've reminded me of something I've been thinking about lately and feel like
writing down.

If you try to eliminate something from your personality in a straightforward
way, what tends to happen is that it goes underground. You haven't gotten rid
of X; you've fragmented your consciousness so that you're no longer aware of
X, which makes you think X is gone when really it's continuing to operate. And
X can work a lot more mischief now that it's autonomous from the part of you
that wants to regulate it.

A straightforward example is the religious fanatic who suppresses his
"demonic" impulses. We all know what such people tend to really be like.

Perhaps a more meaningful example for this forum is the kind of person who
wants to overcome his fear by motivating himself to think he's not afraid and
by executing certain actions to prove it. The trouble with doing this naively
is that you can end up not with an absence of fear, but with unconscious fear,
which continues to prevent you from doing things, only in ways you can't
explain.

Of course, literature is replete with examples of this dynamic. The bottom
line is that you can't minimize X in yourself by trying to eliminate it. It
seems that a better strategy is to stay aware of X as it is happening. That
way X and the part of you that is against X remain in the same field and there
is a possibility of integration.

So, counterintuitively, if you really want to minimize something in yourself
you have to accept it.

~~~
cousin_it
> If you try to eliminate something from your personality in a straightforward
> way, what tends to happen is that it goes underground.

This sounds neat, but is it true? Executing actions really does drive away
fear, moreover it seems to be the only effective way to overcome fear. If you
tried it, you know. :-) Quitting smoking or stopping manipulative behavior
cold turkey really does work, while the gradual approach doesn't work and is
self-deceptive. I have decisively and successfully driven away certain
qualities, and other people agree when asked that I no longer have them.

~~~
gruseom
I don't mean to deny anything that works for you. My experience has been that
the straightforward strategies stop working after a while and that at that
point the game becomes one of integration.

------
Hexstream
FTA: "No, they don’t even try to mask their collective stupidity."

This kind of behavior, being conscious of and _proud of_ one's own mediocrity,
is something that has baffled me time and time again. Can someone please
explain the thought process that leads to this? "People usually expect a
certain level of decency and self-respect and I'm a unique, cool rebel so I'll
do the opposite"?

------
josefresco
Maddox called, he wants his writing style back.

~~~
raganwald
Did you read the commentary about they types of comments his post attracted on
reddit? Or some of the commentary about this phenomenon here?

Do you think your comment is more typical of HN or of reddit?

