
We Timed Every Game. World Cup Stoppage Time Is Wildly Inaccurate - pmcpinto
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/world-cup-stoppage-time-is-wildly-inaccurate/
======
tj-teej
Football (soccer), is not an exact game, on purpose, the rules empower the
referee to make judgement calls in order to encourage the "flow" of the game,
to make it a "good" game.

The explicit rule of "stoppage time" is that the referee adds time on to the
end of the match to makeup for time lost to stoppages (e.g. time spent on
injuries, goal celebrations, etc).

But for example, if a game is spiraling out of control and every stoppage of
play is elongated by fighting between the players, the ref may decide not to
add on any time and to end the game right at 90. This seems backwards to a lot
of American's used to by-the-book sports, but that's the spirit of Football.

A more concrete and common example is the Advantage rule, if (in the referee's
mind), stopping play for a foul will hurt the team which was fouled, they will
acknowledge that it happened but not stop play, throwing their arms forward
and yelling "Advantage".

~~~
segmondy
soccer is a rubbish game, at the world cup level. I stopped watching because
in the world cups, the referee's often call against the African teams. They
also call on behalf of certain teams that are expected to win, but the call
against African teams is ridiculous.

~~~
filleduchaos
You seem to have gone in with a chip already on your shoulder, so I suppose
it's no great loss that you think it's "rubbish".

Full disclosure: I'm Nigerian and have followed this world cup avidly, paying
enough attention to note that a pretty even distribution of teams has been
well or hard done by VAR and the referee.

~~~
segmondy
Right, can you tell me why Nigeria didn't get awarded the penalty kick?

------
Tomte
That‘s a very American, footbally viewpoint. Few Europeans would expect or
even want a „pure play“ time of 90 minutes.

European football doesn‘t have strictly delimited borders between play time
and off time. Not like American football where a clock is stopped and
everybody regroups in a neat and perfectly pre-planned formation.

The referee may signal a foul and a player may execute it immediately, or wait
a bit, or wait even longer. In that moments, people don‘t have a clear
conception of whether it is play time, until it has happened.

Not to speak of the nightmare handling exact measurements in practice.

~~~
afpx
Does this seem to mirror European politics or culture? Where does the
tolerance for this come from? As an American, it is baffling to have that much
uncertainty introduced by external entities.

~~~
m_mueller
Maybe you can see it mirrored in civil vs. common law? My working theory is
that peoples used to Napoleon’s style of law are much more comfortable handing
over authority to a centralized organ rather than a book. It may also have to
do with carholicism (central organ) vs. evangelicism (book). Personally as a
(catholically raised) Swiss I do prefer the former (even with Swiss culture
being rather anti-authoritarian historically) as it has more failsaves against
the bad parts of unchangeable books - I rather trust that people can be talked
to when necessary than someone having come up with the perfect set of rules in
advance.

------
squarefoot
The day they add exact play timing to football is the day it transitions from
a show to a sport, which would take away like 50% of its followers. This
uncertainty is what makes people angry and contributes to its success.

~~~
toyg
You clearly have never played it. Footballers are athletes of the first order,
and football is so popular because _everyone can play_ , not because it’s on
TV. From the mountains of Nepal to the grassy parks of England to the rocky
plains of Africa, you only need a couple of poles and a ball and you are in
business. No fancy armours, no need for tools and equipment - just a ball and
your skills. That is the essence of football, that’s the essence of real
sports.

A lot of Olympic disciplines are just shows: convoluted exercises for the
benefit of spectators, like synchronised swimming, gymnastics, skating and so
on; football is all about the game itself, you can play it without audiences
and it will still mean everything to players. _That’s_ what sport is all
about.

------
ajuc
Half of football (soccer) is in the positioning. It happens in "dead" time as
well, so the time isn't really dead.

If we calculated the dead time and added it to the stoppage time exactly - the
most boring matches would drag forever, and the most exciting matches would
barely change. Why lengthen the torture?

------
jogjayr
An alternative view to all the naysayers here who say that the loosey-goosey
way football does time is part of the charm of the game.

On football fan sites lots of people bring up the idea of more precise
timekeeping - 35 minute halves with the clock stopped when play has stopped.
This is often offered as a solution to teams that, upon gaining an unexpected
lead, will waste time at free kicks, throw-ins, and injuries. They do this
confident in the knowledge that the referee will never add on more than 3
minutes at the end barring something truly unusual, but they will have wasted
far more than 3 minutes.

------
soared
Super interesting point that the ball is dead for 43% of the time but the game
doesn't feel dead during these periods. Its a perfect contrast to american
football - both have time where the ball is technically dead. But in am
football people are running on and off the field, in the huddle, standing
still at the line, etc. While in soccer, during a dead ball players are still
sprinting around, actively playing out strategy, etc.

~~~
chaosbutters314
It does feel dead. Like hurry up with the kick and quit standing around unless
you're going to DD stoppage time.

------
russdpale
I think this is a classic case of consistency over accuracy, and there is
nothing wrong with that. I actually prefer when they don't even say how much
extra time there even is.

------
dzonga
I think they erred on how they calculated the time. things like throw ins,
free kicks etc are within gameplay so not counted against the clock. Very
american footballish to view 'futbol' time.

