
Audible and audiobooks, the fastest growing part of publishing - amanuensis
https://thebaffler.com/latest/successful-people-listen-to-audiobooks-caplan-bricker
======
gambler
_> Amazon, is to book publishing what Facebook and Google are to magazines_

Unfortunately, this is a very accurate analogy.

I like listening to audio books and Audible is definitely very convenient, but
I am 100% sure that in the not so distant future Amazon will completely
destroy the whole publishing ecosystem in US and that will have horrendous
effect on the quality of what is being written and on the availability of
things to read.

Audible is good, _because_ it's not sustainable. It's good, because it
benefits from the infrastructure that would not exist if books were created
for audio instead of paper.

If Audible get _really_ popular, it will just become a centralized long-form
podcast service. They're already edging that way with "originals".

It's amazing that after seeing this process repeated again and again in the
lat couple decades, people _still_ can't predict when it starts to take pace
in yet another industry.

Technically, no one stops any book author from hiring a voice actor and then
selling the result from their website directly. This doesn't require a
middleman. Yet, how many authors do you know that actually do it?

~~~
ChildOfChaos
I think Audible works though because of the monthly subscription and the fact
people get credits a month in exchange for a book. This credit is purchased at
a lot lower cost than paying for the book outright. But it's sold on the basis
that people will stay subscribed and thus end up with books they wouldn't of
otherwise bought as they are looking for something to spend their credit on
this month.

A different model than someone actually knowing the author, waiting for the
release and then buying it directly from them. It's essentially free money for
author/publisher so they are all rushing to the platform.

~~~
max76
> But it's sold on the basis that people will stay subscribed and thus end up
> with books they wouldn't of otherwise bought as they are looking for
> something to spend their credit on this month.

Why would someone feel pressure to use a credit? A person can have several
extra credits at time. The credit system has a lot of advantages for Amazon,
but time pressure isn't one of them.

~~~
lugg
Credits expire and there is a max of 6.

~~~
disiplus
it's 1 year from 2 April. I was thinking about canceling with the old policy
but maybe not anymore. right now I have 3 unused credits.

------
steve19
People complaining forget what the industry was like before audible. It was
terrible. Audiobook cost an absolute fortune, and selections were very
limited. Audiobooks in the late 20th century were, I imagine, simular to paper
books in 18th century. Something most of the population could not afford to
own.

I have been listening, and loving, audiobook for a very long time audible was,
and still is, a breath of fresh air.

Combined with the similarly lax attitude to drm as the amazom kindle, removing
drm is simple.

Audible has created a market that publishers were either ignoring completely
or extreme price gouging (or some of both) .

~~~
tty2300
Before online audio books we borrowed then from the library for free.

~~~
bgeeek
True, before MP3, we used to borrow CDs from the library and copy them to
tape, too. Libraries were brilliant as an impoverished student :)

------
dfabulich
Instead of Audible, I recommend downloading audiobooks for free from your
local library.

The San Francisco Public Library uses an app called "Libby." (I think most
major US libraries support it.) It's free and convenient. No complaints.

~~~
gnicholas
FYI, Libby is an app made by OverDrive, (which is in turn owned by Rakuten).

Although OverDrive has published multiple open letters proclaiming their
dedication to accessibility, they have done relatively little in this space.
In one disappointing conversation with a senior executive, I was told that if
they can’t charge libraries more for a feature, they won’t add it. To my mind,
the definition of accessibility is making decisions that make a product more
accessible _even if doing so does not make more money_.

Given that OverDrive has 90% market share in the US, it’s a pity that this is
their attitude toward accessibility.

~~~
rahimnathwani
"To my mind, the definition of accessibility is making decisions that make a
product more accessible even if doing so does not make more money."

Their clients (libraries) are the ones providing a service to end users. It's
up to the libraries to determine what's important when selecting a supplier or
developing a custom solution.

Imagine I download an app on my phone. And I find it can't be used with a
screen reader for some reason. Who is responsible here? Me? Google Play? The
app publisher? The outsourced developer who did the coding for hire?

Now imagine the same situation, but:

\- the app publisher being a US entity which takes federal funds

\- the app being assembled wholly from existing community-maintained open
source projects

It seems obvious to me that the party providing the service, and not the
developer of the underlying software, is responsible.

~~~
gnicholas
I agree that libraries have some responsibility here. But as it happens, my
conversation with this OverDrive exec was pursuant to a letter signed by
librarians representing hundreds of libraries, asking OverDrive to offer a
particular accessibility feature, and giving detailed reasons for why it would
help library patrons.

Even with this supporting information and the backing of hundreds of
libraries, OverDrive was not interested because they didn't think they could
profit off the feature.

~~~
rahimnathwani
In the letter from the librarians, was the feature described as:

A) Must-have (e.g. if we don't have it, we'll be breaking the law, and so
can't/won't renew the contract to use Libby), or

B) Nice-to-have?

If A, then I'm surprised at OverDrive's response.

If B, then I'm curious to know how much the librarians offered to pay.

If OverDrive can't make a profit from a feature, then either it's not that
important to the people who hold the purse strings, or the feature is too
expensive/complicated to build/deploy/maintain.

Is there something stopping the libraries from using a different vendor, or
developing a solution that meets their needs? (As far as consumer software
goes, Libby doesn't seem that complicated at the front end, but perhaps there
are lots of complex third party integrations at the backend, to support
licensing/DRM/whatever?)

~~~
gnicholas
I don't think they said it was legally required, just that it would be very
beneficial. They didn't offer a price, nor were they ever asked how much
they'd pay. But I'm not aware of any platforms that charge extra for their
accessibility features. Are there any?

The reason there isn't much competition in the space is that OverDrive has a
huge lead, and it is very complex on the back end. NYPL is doing good stuff
with the SimplyE project, which they are offering to other libraries as well.
Hopefully this will spur innovation in the space, in many regards!

~~~
rahimnathwani
"But I'm not aware of any platforms that charge extra for their accessibility
features. Are there any?"

My point isn't that OverDrive should itemise their pricing, it's that market
participants generally only invest money in R&D when it is expected to make
them more money. And if customers signal that they value a feature at $0, then
that feature is likely to go to the bottom of the list.

If I buy a licence to a platform, that enables me to provide services to my
users, then of course I can only use the features that come with that
platform. If I want additional features, of course I can ask for them. But the
platform provider will prioritise things based on what will make them money
(get more new customers, reduce existing customer churn, or increase revenue
per customer).

From what you've said, it sounds like OverDrive has no competition, so the
impact of accessibility features on customer retention and acquisition is
zero.

If so, then OverDrive needs to be incentivised by either:

A) More money from existing libraries (what I asked about above), or

B) Threat of competition, which would affect future customer
acquisition+retention (which the SimplyE project you mention may provide).

~~~
gnicholas
This has morphed into a big conversation that misses the point: OverDrive
claims to care a ton about accessibility and publishes open letters
proclaiming this. Then, when customers come to them with accessibility
suggestions, they have zero interest in implementing them.

This wasn't based on difficulty of implementation (it was easy), and OverDrive
never asked how much it would cost or whether libraries would pay extra to
have the feature. They did not care enough to even have a conversation with
the librarians about it.

~~~
rahimnathwani
"This has morphed into a big conversation that misses the point"

That's the nature of conversations :)

Sometimes you make a point, and people say "That's a great point. I'd never
thought of it like that before."

And sometimes people have different opinions. Sometimes what is 'the point'
for one person, 'misses the point' from another person's perspective.

------
OscarTheGrinch
I really enjoy audiobooks, but I dont think Audible is letting the medium
flourish to its full potential.

My main concern is that audible is missing the long tail which naturally forms
in any price sensitive market, where older products tend to depreciate to the
point where they find a buyer. With paper books I can find an old book for
cheap and that is great for a lover of words.

Audible distorts the audio-book market with its credit system: as far as I can
tell they never discount older or less popular works, cutting off the long
tail of potential readers. Why waste a precious credit on an audiobook who's
physical cost is now fraction of its cover price?

More marketplace competition, and price / demand sensitive business models
would be welcome.

~~~
xnyan
There are often good deals to be had on Amazon for audiobooks, as others have
mentioned older audiobooks can be found for as little as $2, though for
moderately popular ones its more like $10-15.

Very popular audiobooks don't go on sale as often, but even the complete set
of Stephen Fry read Harry potter 7-book-series, hundreds of hours, can be had
for as little as 20 bucks sometimes.

~~~
OscarTheGrinch
OK maybe that's my problem, I'm browsing solely through the audible app where
I do see price difference, but I've never seen discounts signaled as such.
Also I'm usually racing to spend credits before they expire, so price is less
of a factor.

~~~
manojlds
Audible has daily deals and lots of sales. Also, Kindle unlimited +
whispersync means lots of cheap audiobooks. Lots of classics are available at
$0.99. I recently got latest Pride and Prejudice narrated by Rosamund Pike for
$0.99

Check /r/audible

------
dangoor
For people worried about Audible's dominance here, there's _starting_ to be a
countermovement among indie publishers, and I assume big publishers would also
support competition.

* Chirp, from Bookbub: [https://www.chirpbooks.com](https://www.chirpbooks.com)

* Authors Direct: [https://authors-direct.com](https://authors-direct.com) (from Findaway Voices, which helps indies produce audiobooks)

* Overdrive and Hoopla are bringing library-purchased audiobooks to people: [https://www.overdrive.com](https://www.overdrive.com) [https://www.hoopladigital.com](https://www.hoopladigital.com)

Audible tries to get people locked into multi-year exclusive distribution
contracts, and a lot of people go for it given their current hold on the
market. Hopefully, demand will start rising for these other distribution
channels.

------
jrgaston
For me audio books don't replace regular books, they supplement them, by
expanding my reading time and by getting me to read books I'd otherwise not. I
often end up with both the physical or e-book plus the audio book. Sometimes I
start with the audio book, especially if the book is challenging, then later
switch to the non-audio book. Sometimes I jump back and forth. Yeah, crazy.

Down sides? Choice. (You want a different translation of The Brother's
Karamazov? Ha!) You still need a hand, or at least a finger, to pause or go
back, like when your mind inevitably wanders. You can't share an audio book
with a friend, a downside of e-books too. And then there's the whole mind-
wandering thing. I can't multitask. I can't listen to an audio book at just
any time I need my hands for something else. The context switch is a buzzkill.

The key to a good audio book, in addition to the book itself being good, is a
good reader, so here are some of my current faves with splendid readers: A
Clockwork Orange narrated by Tom Hollander; Lincoln in the Bardo, Nick
Offerman; Mrs Dalloway, Juliet Stevenson; Lolita, Jeremy Irons; and Milkman,
Brid Brennan.

~~~
bgeeek
Part of what you're talking about is what bugs me about Amazon and the
publishers. When I buy an audio CD, I can have it "auto-ripped" and available
to download immediately as an MP3. I wish the same applied for more expensive
physical copies of books, too - I wish they would also offer me a digital copy
for my own convenience.

------
satvikpendem
I'm ready for when I can have my books read to me with machine learning à la
WaveNet or similar, effectively cutting out the middleman and making a very
cheap audiobook version. Google Books can already do this with epubs but it's
not at the same level as a professional audiobook however.

~~~
zipperhead
Oh please no, not for me. A well-read audiobook becomes an integral part of
the art form. An example is the recent Beastie Boys book, which is read by the
two of them, plus a whole host of guest readers. Some of whom completely
transform the experience.

~~~
lucb1e
I agree, a well-read book can really make it. A bad reader not only makes a
good book boring, it also works conversely. For example, Ready Player One was
a mediocre movie, an alright book, and the audio book was really great (i.e. I
also enjoyed the story itself much more because of the telling).

If you just want to read books without the effort of reading, and have "audio
books" be cheap, text to speech is totally there. You'll miss some intonation,
but modern speech engines are beyond understandable. If it would be just about
understandability, try espeak (apt install espeak). An absolutely awful voice,
but copy any decently sized text (maybe a pg essay) and listen to it. I find
that after 30 seconds to a minute, I've adjusted enough to perfectly
understand it, and after 4+ minutes I forget that I'm listening to the most
horrendous voice known to mankind. And if you want to nerd out some more about
our brain's capacity to understand speech and adapt to things that don't even
resemble speech anymore, try whistling languages. I'm always amazed how
understandable they can be.

~~~
nytesky
I was thinking of Ready Player One, and how it’s reading really was part of
the experience. Did you mean to bury the lede that it’s read by none other
than Wil Wheaton?

------
_i____ii_______
Audible's greatest assault is on my wallet. So many audiobooks on that
platform are exorbitantly expensive.

~~~
Causality1
Yep. Fifty hours of Netflix is fifteen dollars a month. Fifty hours of Audible
content is close to a hundred bucks. Now, two dollars per hour is cheap
compared to traditional entertainment like movie theaters and DVDs but
downright insane compared to YouTube and Spotify.

~~~
thisone
Hmmm, 100 hours of audible content would run me about 3 books. So around £18
when buying bulk credits. Or £24 when buying monthly.

But I was taught to buy books by weight. Which has turned out to be good
advice.

------
carrja99
I just love audio books. I listen to them while walking the dog, working out
or doing chores around the house.

~~~
sorenjan
I've tried it a few times, but I have a few problems with them:

I can't skip boring parts, like long descriptions or other annoying parts.

I zone out from time to time when doing other things, and I have to skip back
and try to find where I lost track.

Sometimes I have to go back and reread numbers, names, and other important
info, but that's much harder with audio.

~~~
jrumbut
Boring parts are the reason I do audio books (which in my mind I still call
books on tape). I listen primarily to massive ancient works like The Illiad,
Parallel Lives, and Herodotus' Histories that are impenetrable to me in text
because they have enormous sections devoted to lists of ancient names or
inaccurate dimensions of Egypt that I can just zone out to during a drive.

Of course you can skip those parts in text but if you half listen to them you
get to say you heard the whole thing and you begin to appreciate the role they
played in the work and the influence they had on later authors and
politicians.

------
chiefalchemist
re: " Audiobooks are the fastest growing part of publishing..."

I hate to jump in and jump off topic but statements like that really annoy me.
First, when a market is tiny but growing even small increases look amazing as
a percentage.

And then there's the maturity of the publishing market itself. Anything new
that's growing is going to be growing more than the otherwise mature no-growth
market.

The question here is: How much new incremental business is this actually
creating? Or, much like music CDs years ago, are most people simple trading
one format for another newer one?

Yes, those re-sales still count but it also creates a false sense that the
market itself is actually growing; that new buyers are coming on board. Again,
ask the music industry if they regret getting hooked on the "bonus" revenue
from CDs. And how that not only drove people to downloads, but that false
growth created a false peak that made the digital crash hurt even more.

Again, please pardon the somewhat off-topic-ness.

~~~
TylerE
Audible alone did over $3 billion last year.

"Major publishers have confirmed to Good e-Reader that 1 out of every 10 books
sold is in the audio format ...

HarperCollins stated that downloadable audio accounted for about 25% of all
digital revenue in the recent first three months of 201"

[https://goodereader.com/blog/audiobooks/good-e-reader-
global...](https://goodereader.com/blog/audiobooks/good-e-reader-global-
audiobook-report-for-2019)

Hardly tiny.

~~~
chiefalchemist
Thanks. You missed the point. Good job.

~~~
dang
This comment breaks the site guidelines. Would you mind reviewing them and
following them when posting here?

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

------
Causality1
I just wish Audible had adopted a Netflix-style distribution system rather
than an Amazon.com style one. Watching all the Netflix I want costs me fifteen
dollars a month. Listening to all the Audible content I want would cost me
hundreds if not thousands of dollars a month because I'd have to purchase each
piece of media individually.

~~~
jaabe
Until you want to read a book that isn’t currently available. Maybe it’s
different on the American Netflix (and similar), but currently none of the
streaming services in Denmark have all seasons of x-files.

I prefer buying things to renting them, but of course with modern digital
distribution you often end up renting them even when you “buy” because of
DRMs.

Maybe I’m old, but I just don’t get modern media consumption. I mean, if we
look beyond DRMs (and maybe you can crack Amazon’s), then you’ll own 120 books
in 10 years as opposed to the Netflix model where in 10 years and the same
amount of money, you’ll own 0 books.

~~~
icebraining
Some of us don't care about owning. I always gave 95%+ of my paper books away,
long before I started reading digitally.

------
Ozzie_osman
My problem with audio books is that they are long, and I can't skip around,
and listening in bursts of 10-15 mins ends up being inefficient and
disorienting.

I've been using Spokn, which provides narration of high quality articles from
HBR, NYT, etc. Works a lot better for my schedule.

------
glial
I have used Audible for a long time, but have recently switched to Libro.fm.
Pricing is the same as Audible, and my local book store gets a cut.

~~~
dvlsg
Does it have drm?

~~~
max76
No [0]

[https://libro.fm/membership](https://libro.fm/membership)

------
ericdykstra
I’ve been an Audible subscriber for a fairly long time (2011), and really
enjoy the format. I really wish it wasn’t tied to Amazon, though. The recent
increase of their “digital book burning” is pretty egregious, and it’s weird
to own books on Kindle and Audible that are no longer even available for
purchase.

There are, fortunately, some authors that publish their audiobooks direct, and
others that put their work free on archive.org. However, the vast majority are
Audible-exclusive, and it keeps me locked in.

------
listenandlearn
I absolutely love Audio Books, I think I went through maybe 25+ audio books,
mostly non fiction, in 2018 alone. It is a fantastic way to maximize dead
time, but generally I think non music audio is going through a sort of
renaissance.

While the author of this post is really distraught about Amazons dominance
with Audible I do think in some ways non music audio is much bigger than just
Audibooks for example Podcasts are on the rise and at least for the moment
they are totally open. I also think Amazons hold with audio books will be
difficult to maintain especially as technology and AI gets better. Why pay
them when a great sounding AI could read your book to you.

As a little shameless self promotion I have been working on a side project
that does exactly this, it takes any Article or PDF from the web and converts
it to great sounding audio so you can listen to it on the go. It sounds pretty
good, and it’s a great way to maximize your dead time and stay informed on the
go.

If you want to check out my project you can find it here:

[https://articulu.com/](https://articulu.com/)

~~~
nsomaru
I’ve been using your app for 2 months on the free plan after seeing you link
it here.

The site dailymaverick.co.za which I frequent has built in AI-read voice for
articles provided by a third party service. For some reason, Articulu fails to
convert some of the articles, which curiously also do not have a converted
audio for their third party service. The failure state is not very graceful.

There’s a couple issues with organising my recordings (there’s just a queue at
the moment), the seek bar, continuing where you left off and renaming
recordings.

Also why do I use up credits in the free plan when I listen to the same
article more than once?

~~~
listenandlearn
Thank you for using the app, sorry that your having those issues. I will look
into all of those.

Any chance you can shot an email to support@articulu.com, so we can see the
account, and let us know if your on iOS or Android. Any of the Failed URLs
will also be really helpful so we can make the scraping more resilient. We are
working hard to add features that help organize articles better.

------
ebg13
I used to really love Audible because they _had_ excellent customer service.
Now I only tolerate them. One more instance of needing to send a dozen back
and forth emails to their so-called customer support repeating the same
message over and over and getting increasingly frustrated and upset because
not a single goddamn one of their offshored drones actually bothers to read
what you write before responding about something entirely unrelated and I will
terminate the service I've had with them since 2002. Watching a company you
loved dealing with destroy the human side of its service makes me very sad.

------
miki123211
I hate Audible, with a passion. They have drm, so I can't listen in the app I
like, and the prices...Back in secondary I've been listening to audiobooks at
the rate of approximately one book a week. I've used polish libraries for the
blind which were legal, free and had everything I wanted (almost). I can't
even imagine how much money I'd spend if I had to use Audible instead.
Actually I wouldn't even be able to, as I'd been listening on a Rockboxed[1]
player, not a smartphone. [1] [https://rockbox.org](https://rockbox.org)

~~~
genera1
Technically you can download audible .aa files and convert them to whatever
format you want, default ffmpeg can handle the conversion.

~~~
krtkush
How does one do that?

~~~
AndyMcConachie
OpenAudible.org

Then I wrote a script.

[https://github.com/smutt/mp3_split](https://github.com/smutt/mp3_split)

~~~
krtkush
Thanks!

------
rdl
Audible (audiobooks generally, but generally just Audible) is my primary form
of long-form media consumption. I don't watch TV, I don't watch movies, I
don't listen to very much music. I probably consume 100-150 Audible books per
year, on top of another ~50 Kindle books, and 20-30 pdf/paper books.

With promos and everything else, my average cost per Audible book is about $5.
I guess I spend about $1k/yr on books, maybe a little more. Some people spend
about that much for cable tv. I feel like I get a lot more value out of books.

------
raverbashing
Well, you are free to not do it

In fact I can't stand podcasts or similars for the most part as I can't do
some things while listening to it. Maybe driving but that's it.

As much as it's nice to learn stuff, at some point it is just shallow
edutainment (as much as I like some of the science yt channels)

~~~
gman83
I like podcasts because it turns things that I used to absolutely hate doing
like dishes or gardening into somewhat enjoyable for me.

~~~
goldcd
I could not agree more.

Audiobooks and podcasts are one of my favourite things. If I need to
concentrate there's music - if I have to do some mundane physical task that
used to bore the bejeezus out of me, I now have them.

I even enjoy the mundane tasks - as gives me time to enjoy the information
pumped into my ears, and actually get something useful done at the same time.
(Today I decided as spring was hear, I'd spend an hour removing the worst
offending weeds from my garden).

------
johnnydoe9
Microsoft had ebooks until pretty recently but I only found out about it
because of the news about the cancellation of the service. Google Books added
audiobooks a while ago but why they don't advertise on YouTube videos and
podcasts I'll never understand.

------
iofiiiiiiiii
I am a real big fan of audiobooks but unfortunately am forced to pirate them
because Audible only works with DRM. I would love to buy audiobooks legally
but even if I consented on principle to DRM (I do not), my MP3 players do not
support DRM.

~~~
loco5niner
Here you go:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19768543](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19768543)

No excuse now :-)

------
KloudTrader
We run an ebook to audiobook conversion service and most of the growth comes
from places like web serials and fanfiction:

[https://Auditus.cc](https://Auditus.cc)

------
jimnotgym
Imagine finding out that the New York stock exchange were buying and selling
shares on their own account. They see you bid, execute a trade in between, and
then fill your bid. This is fundamental, you can't be the global marketplace
and be a trader.

Take this one stage further, imagine finding that companies listed of the NYSE
had NYSE directors on their board? Imagine finding that this year's hot IPO is
a company owned by NYSE. This is what happens when Amazon become the
publisher.

It is time to break up Amazon

------
lefstathiou
I can’t resist the temptation to ask given this thread is on HN (a community I
love) and Audible is a passion... for those who love Audible and Audio books,
would you mind sharing 2-3 you particularly enjoyed? I’m always hunting for
new ones. Here are some I would recommend:

Management

1\. Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People

2\. Getting to Yes Great book on negotiation in life and business

3\. The Hard Thing About Hard Things On management

4\. Influence The psychology of persuasion

Non-Fiction Recommendations

1\. River of Doubt True story of Teddy Roosevelt's exploration of a previously
unchartered region of the Amazon River where he and his team almost perished.

2\. Endurance True story of Sir Ernest Shackelton's journey to be the first to
reach the south pole. Arguably one of the greatest survival stories of all
time.

3\. The Disappearing Spoon Story behind the periodic table, the elements, the
people who discovered them and the context under which they were discovered.
Learn a lot about day to day things you don't put much thought into.

4\. Business Adventures Bill Gates was interviewed and asked what his favorite
business book is - this was it (out of print for 40 years until 5 months ago).
It's a collection of about a dozen 1-1.5 hour true business case studies (20th
century). A lot of them were seminal events in corporate America (for example,
the event that resulted in modern day insider trading laws, the creation of
the income tax, etc). You'll enjoy this if you like business books.

5\. Creativity Inc by the cofounder of Pixar. Good story.

6\. Alchemy of Air Story of the investors of the Haber-Bauche process to
convert nitrogen in the air to ammonia (the key component of artificial
fertilizer, gas and gunpowder). Arguably the greatest discovery of the 20th
century if you take into account the fact without this process, Earth's arable
land mass can only sustain 2bn people. It also has resulted in hundreds of
millions of deaths by allowing wars to wage on indefinitely

7\. A Short History of Nearly Everything A fast pace, well written science
book by Bill Bryson that covers what we know about the creation of the world
thus far. You'll enjoy it.

8\. The Boys in the Boat Very inspiring story about the men's 1936 olympic
gold metal rowing team

9\. Shoe Dog by Phil Knight Very inspiring story by the creator of Nike. One
of the best memoirs I've ever read.

10\. Lessons of History by Will Durant Short and extremely thought provoking.
Stylistically tough to get into but once you do it is quite good.

11\. Ghengis Khan and the Making of the Modern World The first half of this is
better than the second but overall a very enlightening book about the impact
of the Mongols, broadly considered to be Barbarians but in actuality far ahead
of their time (first to broadly use printed currency, a postal system, a
judicial system, military engineers, etc).

Fiction / Fantasy Recommendations

1\. The Martian Awesome story and as realistic as fiction can get. Was a great
listen.

2\. Theft of Swords great story about two lovable characters. It is part of a
trilogy

3\. Red Rising Part of a trilogy, great listen but worth caveating it is an
extreme hunger games like story that is quite violent

4\. Name of the Wind Epic fantasy adventure, one of the highest rated books on
Good Reads. Absolutely worth it but at 30 hours may be a large commitment as a
first book

5\. The Way of Kings This book gave me heart palpitations... again, a large
commitment but I can't drop it from the list

6\. Lies of Loch Lomura A very fun adventure story; reader's voice takes a
moment to get used to but once you do it is very fun and endearing

7\. Mistborn Great story in a unique world

~~~
max76
Science Fiction: The Bobiverse Triligoy [We are Legion (We are Bob)] is a
hilarious story about a character not unlike the average Hacker News reader
that finds himself in the enviable position of having his consciousness
uploaded into a Von Neumann probe (self replicating space exploring robot). It
has a good humor, the same attention to details The Martian has, nerdy pop
culture references, and several moments of philosophical musings. Ray Porter
does fantastic narration.

------
mettamage
Hmm...

Is it legal to read a book outloud on Twitch?

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dblackker
This article has taken the thoughts right out of my mind. I struggle, as an
achiever type, to "waste" time and therefore fill my mind with audiobooks from
the library as well as audible.

The need to unplug is real.

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intrasight
I think that article would have been better in audible form ;)

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alehul
Tried parsing through the first few paragraphs; can someone offer a tl;dr of
how Audible is assaulting leisure time?

Is it because Audible can be listened to while performing other tasks or going
about your day, and it removes the previously quiet, uninterrupted time of the
day to ponder?

~~~
kurthr
Kinda, but I admit to being confused as well...

'It’s simplistic but not entirely inaccurate to say that Audible’s parent,
Amazon, is to book publishing what Facebook and Google are to magazines: the
troll under the bridge whose idea of a toll is to devour consumers and
competitors whole.' and

'On the train to get coffee with a well-meaning writer twenty years your
senior who will advise you to “climb the ladder” like she did. By listening,
you partially reclaim the lost hours, preserving some ghost of an alternate
universe where you don’t have to do what you’re doing, and you’re on the couch
reading the old-fashioned way instead.'

Personally, I find audio-books almost completely different from active
reading... mostly distracted entertainment rather than true immersion.

~~~
Causality1
Audiobooks are rather unique in that you have to maintain a degree of mental
discipline to avoid giving into the temptation to treat them as background
noise. My personal strategy is to stick to lighthearted podcasts when I'm
doing something that requires cognitive attention like web browsing or gaming
and save the audiobooks for truly routine tasks like commuting to work or
cutting the grass. I've also gotten good results from reading the first
chapter of a book to firmly place the characters and setting in my mind and
then switching to the audiobook.

~~~
matwood
I'm similar, except when I'm at the computer I only listen to music. I could
turn on a podcast, but will hear absolutely zero of what is said.

Podcasts are great for the gym, drive, and yard work though.

For books, I prefer to read. The pacing of reading allows me to think more
deeply about the content. Admittedly, I do not read a lot of throw away
novels. If I did, maybe they could take the place of podcasts.

------
lifeisstillgood
My problems with Audible

\- I cannot search for a new book on Audible - I need to go to amazon, buy
there and come back.

\- I cannot get my podcasts on Audible app.

\- I cannot manage the books on Audible (same issue with kindle). There is one
screen for seeing the whole library - sometimes I want to put books on a high
shelf cos I know I won't go back to them ... ever.

\- Why can I not get a text version of each audible book for free? and vice
versa. It annoys me to pay twice - especially when there is explicitly a
kindle / audible sync designed to allow you to listen to page X then read from
page X. It's like they thought it would be good but then failed to sell the
idea to publishers.

\- Why can't authors put out their own readings (I think this is a publisher
issue - but I think the whole market could 10x if authors just released
audible books like podcasts, polished or not)

\- Listening takes _longer_ than reading. So there is a big incentive to write
scripts for audible only books - shorter and more radio play like. But mostly
audible is just the after thought.

\- Frankly I know there is something there - it's just hard to see what the
real market will look like when we find it.

~~~
eicnix
Part of these issues are due to the in-app apple tax. Audiobooks and ebooks
would be 15% more expensive.

Searching and buying audiobooks and ebooks works fine on Android where Audible
is allowed to provide their own in-app payment system.

