
60% of Neanderthal DNA sequenced - pg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7886477.stm?lss
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biohacker42
What's so scary about the Neanderthals is not that they were bigger or
stronger, but that their brain volume was bigger then ours and from the skull
shape we can tell the brain was shaped just like our brains.

So they _might_ have been smarter.

But here's where it gets interesting they lived in small isolated groups and
didn't invent the fancy tools and jewels humans did.

However once they saw them, they could reproduce them exactly.

That's what we know form archeology.

Now the question is, were they dumber then us, or was it just our greater
population densities that make us seem more creative in the archeological
context?

And if they were not less intelligent then us, why did they go extinct?

If human cloning becomes routine we could _perhaps_ resurrect the neanderthal,
what if they turn out to be just as smart as us?

~~~
electromagnetic
There's numerous potential reasons why they went extinct. The main one is that
they merely couldn't adapt fast enough after the ice ages passed and were out-
competed for food, however it might have been that humans basically killed the
Neanderthals through the spread of farming.

Homo Sapiens Sapiens (us) are keen users of fire throughout history, in fact
we made the world we chose to live in. Through purposeful setting of forest
fires we converted forest to savanna, which we could then use for farming and
pasture.

The interesting thing though is that the first (fossil recorded) domestication
of dogs happened in 30,000 BC in Belgium, and likely this behavior had been
going on for some time before a dog conveniently died in a way to be
fossilized and not used for food. Carbon dating suggests Neanderthals went
extinct 30,000 years ago (from the latest remains, however again some will
have lived longer without being fossilized), which is in fact 28,000 BC. So
the question is, did Neanderthals begin the domestication of dogs? Because the
next known domestication occurred around 7,000 BC again in Belgium.

So I wonder, did Neanderthals show humans how to domesticate dogs? Because
throughout human history, invention spreads quickly, so why did it take almost
25,000 years for it to provably occur again in the same place?

The question of intelligence though depends on a number of factors. The human
brain is about as large as you can get before signal delay gets too long
(possibly a reason for Neanderthal extinction, they literally couldn't react
fast enough), however the human brain has a high nerve density, which would
just compound the problem if our brains were bigger. It's certainly possible
that the Neanderthals were as intelligent as us, but that they simply reacted
slower and when the environment started warming up and more dangerous animals
started spreading back they might not have coped as readily.

An extreme example of the neurone delay is the Elephant. It's brain is
massive, but they have relatively slow reactions. However their intelligence
is immense for an animal, I mean it appears that they actually have the
concept of revenge, which suggests an understanding of right and wrong.

~~~
biohacker42
I've heard theories that dogs started the domestication process because they
were attracted to our garbage.

And since neanderthals were almost exclusively meat eaters, it might be the
case that they attracted a lot more wild animals with their leftovers.

Another theory I've heard is that neanderthals are unique in having an
inferior sense of balance.

Inferior not just when compared to us, but to almost every known hominid or
great ape.

Apparently the inner ear organs responsible for balance and thus also for
agility do fossilize and that's how we know.

So part of their extinction might have been our ability to outrun and out jump
them.

Then again it could have just been our pernicious desire and ability to
exterminate competition.

~~~
electromagnetic
I believe wolves could have started the domestication process. I mean wolf
pups have similar (but not identical) behaviors to dogs and any abandoned or
orphaned wolf pups would easily become attached to a human as the alpha.
Actually, humans are pretty well suited to the alpha role, due to the fact
that in wolves the leader is generally the best at leading (not necessarily
the strongest or fastest, just like in humans) and the alpha always gives out
the food. Early human societies would have likely had the similar behaviors as
alpha wolves.

Neanderthals may have had a stronger alpha than human societies do. It's
likely never going to be provable unless we clone a ton of Neanderthals and
dump them on a small island, but if Neanderthals had a more leader dominant
pack, similar to what Silverback Gorillas have, then this would have made
perfect pack-leaders for orphaned wolf pups. However, from what I've heard is
that the process was only ever _started_ , IE wolves were found to live within
human populations with signs of domestication (likely curious docile ones),
but it was never completed meaning they're unsure if we _bred_ the docile
wolves until around 7000 BC.

The one thing I've always wondered is if Neanderthals simply grasped the
beginning of concepts. They adopted tools they never invented, but learnt to
make. They possibly began the domestication process, but never completed it.
They obviously understood how to make clothes that no other species of hominid
ever did, because they lived in the UK and some of their sites are _behind_
the glacial lines for most of the period they were in Europe, so they
obviously lived close to the glaciers to establish settlements as the glacier
retreated. However, they never appeared to advance far on any of these,
whether this is merely a symptom of technological development (IE since humans
began it's been on exponential growth, however in the beginning things were on
the order of 10,000 years apart) or if it's the limit of the Neanderthals
brain structure. A lack in neural connectivity may have inhibited creativity
and original ideas.

