
What Happens When You Enter the Witness Protection Program? - apsec112
http://priceonomics.com/what-happens-when-you-enter-the-witness-protection/
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rodgerd
The rehab part of the story is fascinating: a very low recidivism rate amongst
people who have been, by definition, career criminals.

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twblalock
I think a lot of people feel trapped in a life of crime by their past, and in
the case of the mafia, by most of their friends and family. If they can get a
new past and new surroundings, they may take advantage of the chance to live
differently.

This is a version of the same argument that people make about rehabilitation
generally: people with a felony conviction find it difficult to get good
honest work, and many revert to living and hanging out with the same kind of
people who got them in trouble in the first place. Witness protection is an
extreme version of what most rehabilitation advocates are suggesting: an
opportunity to start with a clean slate (i.e. no felony record that hurts
employment), and avoiding bad influences from one's past. The results of
witness protection seem to validate these arguments.

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johnchristopher
I'd say the consequences for violating the witness protection program contract
play a huge role in enforcing its respect.

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trentmb
I can't imagine being in a position where I need WP- obviously I couldn't
claim where I went to school anymore, would I also need to absolve my claims
to my skillset?

Would I have to give up working in my industry, my assorted message board
accounts?

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rohansingh
> The program also works with doctors and school administrators to transfer
> medical records and report cards; Shur recounts that he refused several
> requests to improve a child’s grades.

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trentmb
Sorry, I failed to retain that passage when reading. Does this apply to
college/university?

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hawkice
Am I the only person who is thinking... okay, if I am the mob, I'll hack
hundreds of these underfunded school districts, and watch for kids with
identical grades who transfer in, whose parents have no credit history, and
where the (without loss of generality) father's name is Eric (for families I'd
just use the intersection of all their first initials)? That's _plenty_ of
information, and you add in that the fake identities will keep the same age
for children and same-ish age for the adults, and I'd bet my bottom dollar
it's uniquely identifying.

Surely these days they give them a digital presence, including a same-ish-
credit-rating-different-details credit history. That's just too much to leave
out in 2015.

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PhilWright
I don't think the mob has the skills to perform an operation on this scale for
an uncertain payoff. They might be willing to pay someone else for information
about someone they happen to be interested in. But a fishing expedition that
is outside their area of expertise. Not likely.

~~~
icelancer
It's also just WAY too much work to kill an informant using that method,
unless it's a big time boss. In which case they'd use other ways to try and
skip trace them instead of setting up an enormous botnet of hacked school
networks, which doesn't sound trivial whatsoever. This is the mob, not a black
hat hacker shop with billions of dollars to spend on SIGINT.

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jevinskie
> Since the government refuses to provide a fake credit history, witnesses
> also struggle to secure products and services when companies demand
> financial information.

Uh, if an adversary has large scale access to credit history (how hard is that
to obtain?), couldn't they mine the data for their target and find them?

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peteretep
I suspect it's a blanked credit history.

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rdl
Also they don't really need a credit history if they're given housing/car to
start, and cash for secured accounts.

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nommm-nommm
Credit history affects you in many non-credit ways.

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grecy
I moved to North America, which means I had "no credit rating" which is the
same as the worst possible.

It was annoying for a couple of things

\- Had to put down a $1000 deposit to get a $1000 credit card

\- Had to put down a $400 deposit to get a cheap cell phone

That's it.

What else were you thinking it impacts?

~~~
icelancer
Insurance rates, home ownership (you are only provided an apartment under
WITSEC), jobs often pull credit histories for background checks...

~~~
grecy
> _Insurance rates_

I never encountered that - if they were checking my credit, they never told
me, and my rates were no different than friends with good credit. Is it legal
for them to do that?

> _home ownership_

Obviously I wouldn't qualify for a mortgage right away, but that goes without
saying when you have the worst credit rating possible.

> _jobs often pull credit histories for background checks_

Really? They can do that? Wow. If they did that to me, it apparently didn't
hurt my chances, I've always been offered jobs I've applied for.

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acheron
_Really? They can do that? Wow. If they did that to me, it apparently didn 't
hurt my chances, I've always been offered jobs I've applied for._

You usually have to sign something when you apply giving them permission, so
if you didn't do that then it probably didn't happen. Though in any case I
doubt "no credit history" would be a bad sign for an employment offer; they're
likely only looking for specifically negative events.

~~~
grecy
> _I doubt "no credit history" would be a bad sign_

I was told multiple times at the bank it was equivalent to the worst possible
credit rating.

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acheron
For some types of _credit_ , it could be. I had trouble getting a credit card
with no credit history too. But potential employers aren't looking at it for
that, they're just looking for specific negative things.

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wyager
Fascinating. Is the property (cars, houses, etc.) of those put in WITSEC
escheated?

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DavidAdams
I would imagine that the relocated family's durable assets would be seized by
the government and sold, with the proceeds going through a sort of legal
laundering and being made available to them post-relocation.

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known
Hope what I see in Hollywood movies is not true;

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rdl
A funny thing is I think >50% of them end up in Port Roberts, WA. It's an
exclave of the US and relies on transiting Canadian border security, which
generally prohibits felons from entering Canada, for communication with the
rest of the US. As a result, most of the potential hitters from the mob, who
are convicted felons, are less likely to be able to pass through, and they're
also less likely to be able to easily bring weapons (although it's not that
hard -- it's more that you'll get a bit of protection against casual
interaction.)

WITSEC as well as international intelligence ops are suffering badly from
searchable Internet histories, as well as biometrics at borders.

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YZF
Have you ever been to Point Roberts?

There's a big marina with lots of traffic.

It's a very small community so you'd stick out. Many retirees. Lots of dual
citizens. The US/Canada border isn't really as secure as you think mostly
because it's not possible to seal such a long border. A big city is probably
an easier place to keep a low profile.

I don't think there's a big advantage compared to any other random place. As
long as your new identity is solid you're probably safe. If someone wants to
get you at any cost and they know where you are this probably won't stop them.

Anyways, it is a neat place and you can often see killer whales from the
beach.

~~~
abandonliberty
> The US/Canada border isn't really as secure as you think

I accidentally crossed it when out for a run one day. Only realized it much
later.

Also: Last time I was there they didn't have a sheriff anymore, so the only
visible law presence was the border guards.

