

The Problems With My Startup - joe
http://awmf.blogspot.com/2007/09/problems-with-my-startup.html
I typed this up in order to collect my thoughts, in hopes of eventually showing them to my coworkers. I am totally open to questions, comments, and suggestions, especially from YC readers.
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staunch
I think the solution is to get the idea guy down in the details of each idea.
Bring him along for the ride and let him come up with lots of micro-ideas. It
can be very useful to have two people thinking about the minute details,
especially if they balance each other. Involve him in the thousand tiny
decisions you have to make while implementing an idea.

Get him to stop looking at competitors. It's nerve wracking, demoralizing, and
distracting. You guys probably have more than enough ideas by now, if you'd
just focus on the most promising ones your competitors might start looking at
you.

~~~
joe
Good comments. I think I had some of those thoughts early on (specifically
referring to your first paragraph), I must have just gotten disillusioned with
them. I will attempt them again.

As far as getting him to stop looking at competitors, 100% agreed.

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nostrademons
Stories like this, from startups that are still struggling, are very helpful.
Are you full-time, or do you still have a day job? How about the others on
your team?

~~~
joe
I have a day job, for which I "telecommute", and sadly that's not working out
too well. My day job folks just asked me if I would be willing to relocate,
and I've been considering it. It would mean much more work from them, which
would mean easier payment of bills, etc. I would be living near the job that
pays me, not the other way around.

~~~
choward93
This here shows that you have huge doubts about the startup, if you are
willing to leave it for a less risky decision. It saddens me to see your
operation come down to you deciding to leave it for a job. To keep it business
running, I would try to get another coder, tell the marketing guy to focus on
current products, not future side projects. Take control of the
company...basically what everyone else has been saying.

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bootload
This guys comments (first comments in the blog) ring true ~
<http://tjic.com/?p=7265>

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mickt
Hmmm, 4 people in the startup and only one writing code. Sounds like a top
heavy organisation to me.

Reminds me of a project a collegue was involved in at work (which is at a big
established firm). This had; 1 programmer, 1 manger (who requested more
technical staff cause he knew 1 programmer wasn't enough but was turned down),
and 2 project managers. As the project was running furhter behind schedule
(due to agressive scheduling and vague requirements and mainly because lone
programmer was in status meetings ever day), various high-level management
were thrown at the problem.

Eventually, the programmer spent about 1/2 his day in meetings about the
project, with his manager, 2 project managers, 1 VP, 2 senior VP's. Project
was never finished ...

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joe
I typed this up in order to collect my thoughts, in hopes of eventually
showing them to my coworkers. I am totally open to questions, comments, and
suggestions, especially from YC readers.

~~~
Jd
Although I am very interested to read your comments, I feel that it is
disingenuous to put your name on a 'secret' blog. If you want to have a secret
blog, make it secret. If you want to be open and honest with your co-workers,
be open and honest w/ them. Half way in between strikes me as more likely to
hurt than heal.

Unless what you are trying to do is get at your co-workers, in which case I
think you will succeed.

~~~
joe
Your point is well taken. It wasn't my "secret" blog, really, until I typed
this particular post. I had not revealed its existence to any of my coworkers,
but as you will notice, none of the other posts are particularly charged as
regards business or business politics.

I do want to be open and honest with my coworkers, and I've already had one
(one of the designers) have a look at what I wrote. I am going to present the
ideas contained therein, to the group, ASAP--it's a matter of finding time to
meet and talk about "serious stuff". I was hoping to get some feedback from YC
readers because I trust their opinion and ability to perceive when someone has
gone off the deep end as regards ideas, reasoning, etc. In other words, I'm
hoping that if I'm smoking crack, or if all startups are this way, someone
will tell me before I unveil it to my coworkers at large.

I am certainly not trying to get at my coworkers. The stuff at the top is in
case it's discovered by a certain coworker who i would _rather_ heard it from
me, not the blog. He's been known to read YC news once in a while, thus the
precaution.

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nanijoe
If you are the idea guy and you are not bringing in new ideas then what are
you contributing to the startup? I think it is a bad idea to have a designated
idea guy.

~~~
joe
We are all idea guys in one sense. The reason I've been referring to one guy
as the "idea guy" is that he's not a coder and if I were to gauge the number
of ideas each of us has put forth, he would easily take the highest
percentage. So because he mostly talks to clients on the phone, does other PR-
related things, and brainstorms ideas, I find it easy to refer to him as the
"idea guy".

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samwise
I would take the new job and use the money to hire a coder, along with any
coding you can do on your own. You have to be willing to risk everything, if
you really want to make it work. No risk no reward. If it was easy everybody
would be doing it.

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edw519
I commend your efforts. It's not easy to go through this. And it's smart of
you to share and ask for help. Very smart.

You asked. I won't be bashful. Take my feedback however you want (or tell me
to go to h*ll).

You do not have a startup. You have a hobby. A startup is full time. Greater
than full time.

Like you, I'm a hacker. I simply cannot imagine giving up equity to a designer
or an "idea man" (whatever that is). Design is grossly overrated (see Google).
Ideas are everywhere. Only a fool pays for them. People should be paying you
to give you ideas (more about that below).

I understand that these are your friends and that you love working with them.
Nothing wrong with that. What's more important to you, the quality time you
spend together or the outcome? I think you have a tough decision to make
because, frankly, I don't see you having both. You don't need these guys.

I would seriously consider taking your employer's offer to relocate. This
would give you a graceful exit from your current endeavor and preserve your
friendships. Then I would bank every dollar I could in order to go back to my
start-up full-time. You should be able to work full-time for at least 6
months, preferably a year. I would also try to pick up side jobs somewhat
related to my start-up. Pick up a few extra bucks and get your ideas FROM
THOSE WHO ARE PAYING YOU. These are real ideas coming from the field, not from
some ivory tower. So the logic is reversed: you can pay for untested ideas, or
get paid for real ones.

You don't mention whether your employment is related to your start-up in any
way. If it's not, all the more reason to pick up side work.

I would also try to make connections with other hackers; maybe you can find
more suitable co-founders.

(By the way, the comment about open and honest communication is spot on. Talk
to your partners!)

You've got quite a few things to think about and a lot of good feedback from
both places. Please - keep us posted. You never know where this may lead...

~~~
joe
Thanks for the blunt comment. It's what I was looking for, and much
appreciated.

I will attempt to let you all know how this pans out.

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DanielBMarkham
In my late twenties I was brought in as the superstar on a startup. The "idea
guy" was a former professor of software engineering and a former VP for a
large electronics firm. Hey -- he was a teacher! And a VP for quality! What
could go wrong?

I staffed a very small team and we took off. Every day my idea guy would
wonder around the office, (his basement) coming up with some kind of new thing
or two that was cool. It was distracting as heck.

I finally took him aside and told him that we could do a certain amount of
work each time-box (which I believe was 3 weeks) but we couldn't work in an
environment where we didn't know from day-to-day what we were doing.
Interestingly, the other main programmer said that I was being too anal. So
the idea guy and I had words and I left.

The company never did pan out. Being agile is what it is all about, but you
have to actually _do_ something for that truism to work. This is like the guys
who sit in the stands at major sporting events. It's easy to have some master
plan that changes whenever the mood strikes when you don't have any skin in
the game to make something happen. This is why it's better to have geeks who
are also idea guys -- they realize the cost associated with the ideas. Just
because you can say it easily doesn't mean you can create it easily.

Dude -- I'm sure these guys are your friends and you've been through a lot.
But there's lots of serious, focused work involved with making a startup
happen. It sounds like what you've got is more of a painful group hobby. I
think it might be time to consider a better format for being productive.

~~~
joe
> It sounds like what you've got is more of a painful group hobby. I think it
> might be time to consider a better format for being productive.

I think you're right, at least for my part. One problem is that the idea guy
IS my friend, but I don't think he shares my point of view about this. I wrote
up the blog post in order to collect my thoughts to relate them to him.

~~~
DanielBMarkham
The business side of this is cold and harsh, as it always is.

But as far as keeping a friend? He's a teacher, right? Why don't you sell him
on the idea about learning how other startups succeed? I'll never forget
reading "A Good Hard Kick in the Ass" several years ago. It completely changed
the way I understood how startups work. Perhaps you could sell him on the idea
that you're feeling a little frustrated, and perhaps other teams out there
have learned something that might be useful to you guys.

I also liked "Founders at Work" which I read a while ago. I wouldn't bury the
guy in material -- after all, if you give him too much he'll just blow it off.
But I'd find some text that made the case and _was presented by another person
who is an authority_. That way, it's not a you vs. him deal, it's just a
couple of friends discovering how things work.

Good luck. If he's smart and your friend I'm sure he'll see the value of a
structured approach to creativity. The trick is to be non-confrontational. Let
the ideas battle it out, and not the people.

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ph0rque
let us know how your talk with co-founders goes.

~~~
joe
Will do.

