
Never Be Intimidated - nancyhua
http://nancyhua.com/2014/02/19/never-intimidated/
======
ChuckMcM
That was an interesting read, I can't figure out if she believes it or not.

The people I've met who were easily intimidated by wealth, power,
intelligence, or money seem to share a common fear of being judged. Clearly
just anecdotal evidence is useless here but the heart of the intimidation on
those people (when I asked about it) was fear that they would be judged and
found wanting. That fear intimidates them, not the intelligence or the power
or the money.

As a random part of my life growing up I spent quite a bit of time in Las
Vegas (there is an Air Force base there). And people living there had a really
non-chalant view of money, after all you could be down to your last quarter,
play it and suddenly be up a few hundred thousand dollars. It didn't "mean"
anything, so having it or not having it didn't "mean" anything. But I went to
school in LA and in LA it seemed that having money "meant" you were better
than people who didn't have it. Which I rejected out of hand, after all I knew
people who were complete scumbags who happened have a ton of cash back in
Vegas, so clearly there wasn't a correlation here. But for the folks who had
grown up believing in that correlation they were out to 'get money' so they
could improve their standing in society. And _that_ I found a very crazy
notion indeed.

So the author is intelligent and she understands that she had nothing to do
with the particular gene mix that brought her particular brand of intelligence
out. That's great, some folks aren't so lucky and they fear being judged as
"dumb" or simply "not smart." Is that wrong? Well I certainly consider it
wrong to judge someone that way. But are they wrong for fearing they will be
judged that way? Probably not, there are plenty of people it seems who would
be more than happy to point out to them a relative deficit in IQ. Is that
healthy? No of course it isn't.

So at the end of the day when I was feeling crappy because I had been teased
at school for asking "stupid" questions like how birds fly upside down. My Mom
would say "Oh honey, they are just jealous." Which, while I'm sure she meant
well, didn't really help me with how these "jealous" kids seem to be looked up
to by others and I seemed to be looked down upon by them. Thus I can't see how
telling someone who is feeling intimidated to not feel that, really helps all
that much.

~~~
mbesto
One of the best techniques for reducing the fear of being judged is to 'level
the playing field'. You simply do this by finding something you're good at
that the other person isn't. No matter how arbitrary it is ("I'm better at
chess than you!") there is a still a nature tendency for people who have more
power/wealth/intelligence to want to compete. Thus they focus on the one thing
that you're better at and judge you less on the million other things that you
aren't.

~~~
jotm
Boxing training helps a lot, too. Knowing you can send that 50 pound bag
flying can really boost your confidence around anyone, even if you'll never
actually use that strength.

She says strength doesn't matter, but try being around a bodybuilder without
feeling at least a bit intimidated.

~~~
bluedino
>> She says strength doesn't matter, but try being around a bodybuilder
without feeling at least a bit intimidated.

A very large muscled man will really distort a social setting. Men will offer
to buy him drinks. Women want to touch him. It commands immediate respect from
everyone around. It's very strange.

~~~
lazyant
"It commands immediate respect from everyone around", certainly not from me, I
think a bodybuilder is just someone who spent a lot of time a the gym building
muscle for the sake of building muscle, and my gf says they are "gross". My
prejudice says I could easily outrun those guys, I'd be more intimidated by a
martial arts expert although usually they are on the non-violent side.

~~~
jotm
We're still wired to assess potential danger and the strength/weaknesses of
our surroundings, especially people and animals.

The first thing that the brain thinks when seeing a bodybuilder is that it
would not win in a fight, nor would it be able to run (no, you can't outrun
them - they may have no endurance, but in the first 5 minutes they can outrun
and outmatch almost anyone), so instinctively, it's afraid and more
careful/respectful in order not to anger that person.

The same goes for martial art experts of course, but it may not be immediately
obvious that the person is stronger/faster. If _you_ are the MA expert, you'll
be confident that you can take on anyone in the room, which makes you calmer
and increases your outwards confidence, as well.

It's all really interesting, indeed...

------
fchollet
OP makes some really smart points, but I can't shake the feeling that they're
living in some kind of alternate reality fundamentally different from mine.
Yes, if most people around you are very smart, or very wealthy, then
intelligence or money are not really defining characteristics anymore.
Intelligence and money define you in as much as they are vectors of power, but
how much power they bring you over your environment is directly a function of
how much _more_ you have than others around you. When everybody possesses
these things equally, they don't confer you any power over others anymore.

Yes, it's true that in the science-fiction world described by the OP, which
might become a reality in 200 years, or maybe not, intelligence and looks will
have been commoditized and won't mean much anymore. In exactly the same way
that in the post-scarcity economy (if such a thing is ever to be), money won't
matter anymore. But that is not the world we live in. In my world, really
smart people are extremely rare, and they hold enormous power over the world
due to their understanding, learning and problem-solving abilities. Wealthy
people are few (the 1.5%) and possess monstrous power over the 98.5%. Just
what kind of fairy tale does OP live in? Is SV really such an alternate
reality?

~~~
ryanobjc
It's pretty obvious that she does live in a very rarified world, but the
advice is solid.

Why? Because in the 'normal' world, no one has beauty, intelligence nor money.
So you have to judge people absent those things.

------
wavesounds
"Wait til I get my money right, then you can't tell me nothin, right" \- Kanye
West

"Cash rules everything around me" \- Wu-Tang Clan

In America money rules everything. Anyone with an Ivy League education and
access to Billionaires obviously is not going to be intimidated by other
status symbols.

It's only the people who need access who are intimidated by the gatekeepers.

~~~
chkpt
This is just not true. Most Ivy Leaguers maintain their high school level
anxieties and fears no matter how much money they make or networks they break
into. They are, generally speaking, still intimidated by the same fear of
inadequacy that dominated their campus when they were undergrads.

------
joesmo
Most modern men cannot run a marathon. Physical strength is still quite
useful. Based on such principles, it's no wonder the author delves into
ridiculous banter about singularity. At least she could have gotten some basic
facts straight.

~~~
sneak
I don't think that specific factual inaccuracy undermines her basic point in
that part, though. Physical ability isn't really a very big personality
differentiator in most cases.

~~~
ryanobjc
It's an odd claim that is way wrong. Was it a typo? A braino? Or just wrong?

I guess that this article got voted up so much is a strong indication as to
how young this site really is. Nothing she said was very insightful, and any
of the 'gate keeping billionares' could have told her everything she was
talking about.

Of course, being told something isnt the same as learning something. Lessons
like this are usually pretty hard ones, and not everyone gets the chance to
learn them.

------
kenjackson
Honestly I didn't really get this article. It seems to make ad hoc
distinctions for traits based on some possible future reality, that may occur
after we are dead. And none of it relates to why people get intimidated.

------
angersock
tl,dr: future so bright we'll need shades, so let's pretend we care about
other things--after all, all us rich people will be unable to signal using our
jetpacks and bodymods anymore!

" _Now when I meet someone with intelligence, beauty, or wealth, which is
basically everyone in the post-singularity society of Silicon Valley, I
automatically delete those qualities from my perception of their Real
Identity. I still recognize intelligence, etc. as a property they possess, but
I don’t define them by it._ "

is this person as insufferable in real life as she is in her writing?

~~~
benched
From what I can gather, monkishly so.

------
ozy23378
This text is nothing more than an aspirational humblebrag: "Look at me, I am
so intelligent and have so much access to intelligent, wealthy, attractive
people that I don't have to care about intelligence, wealth and beauty any
longer! I have become blind to such superficialities and am now closer to
enlightenment than any of you!"

Furthermore, for someone with a "Bachelors [sic] of Science in Writing" her
writing is remarkably poor (e.g., "A millennia ago", "Lamborghini’s").

~~~
angersock
But she's totally killing it in the Valley, right?

Changing the world through A/B testing.

------
quarterwave
Consider John Wayne's advice in 'The Shootist': It's not always about being
fast or accurate, it's about being willing.

Add another quote (from Feynman): you must not fool yourself and you are the
easiest person to fool.

Now no one can intimidate you.

------
brandonhsiao
Didn't see much of the title in the article. Also, while I agree with most of
it, this part seems to be the most important:

> _I try to define people by their ambitions, creativity, drive, perspective,
> attitude, inspirations… that soft gushy core inside the genius billionaire
> playboy. Love, values, interests, goals._

After an article about how intelligence, prestige, and beauty don't matter,
what _do_ you define people by? I'm not seeing the pattern here. What ties
these things together?

I'm not sure if this is what you're trying to say, but the only message I'm
taking away is: the traits people traditionally respect don't matter as much
as they think.

~~~
derefr
Presumably, "intelligence, prestige, and beauty" are things people are born
into.

Meanwhile, "ambitions, creativity, drive, perspective, attitude, [and]
aspirations"... are things people are frequently still be born into, but
society doesn't think about it that way. (My riches for a world where "drive"
is viewed as biological, rather than a matter of "character"...)

~~~
girvo
'derefr, meet the head of this nail. I think you'll hit it off.

 _ahem_ , enough terrible puns. You're right on here though, but I think
"drive" as a concept is (like most things to do with humans) a mix of
biological and "character". I think it leans more towards the former, however.
I mean, I have struggled with depression since I was a teenager: there's a
nice biological factor that _destroys_ any and all drive I normally have.

------
ngpio
A response to Jamil Elie Bou Kheir's comment on Facebook (presumably jamilbk
on HN), because I do not have Facebook:

> hello from hacker news. thoughtful article! i think it's not the mere
> intelligence, beauty, or wealth that defines someone. perhaps it's the
> reasons and difficulty through which they are achieved. suppose i endure
> years of hardship and suddenly, in a flash of creativity, uncover a specific
> life path which i choose to follow. if the journey down that path
> necessitates an increase in intelligence, then wouldn't that conscious
> pursuit of intelligence qualify as a viable aspect of my identity? similar
> points can be raised about beauty and wealth.

> accordingly, i think no real identity is assumed when an individual gets
> these things "for free". enthusiastically expressing one's beauty,
> intelligence, or wealth that have existed since birth (or a lucky event) is
> actually rather distasteful... so yeah delete those qualities kthx.

You've made negation your identity the same way that others define themselves
through beauty, intelligence and wealth. This is neither unique nor
particularly useful, and I've found it to be generally unhealthy.

Entrench yourself in any region's activist scene and you will be surrounded by
this mentality. Despite being a higher level abstraction than beauty,
intelligence and wealth, it is equally commoditizable given enough time and
positive feedback. For instance, consider the phrase "social capital".

The original post does not strike me as a rejection of one end of an axis in
favor of its converse. Rather it is a dismissal of the axis itself, of an
entire model of thinking, its conclusion resting in rational, subjective
passivity. To ascribe any particular aesthetic about how things "should be" or
how people "should act" is to miss the point.

I would summarize the original post's conclusion thus: stop projecting;
question abstractions; remove inconsistencies from the bottom, up.

That conclusion invites a plea. We all have a utility function, and it will
eventually fail; how do we best extend its (and our) relevance, and do we even
want to?

------
adventured
The entire article is built around a false premise: that we're all going to be
genius supermen, and struggle with what to identify ourselves by.

Another major thing from the article that is false, and destroys the
conclusions that rest upon it: intelligence, wealth and beauty _used_ to seem
like notable qualities.

It's fitting then that the 2014 SI Swimsuit edition just came out. Remind Kate
Upton that beauty isn't a notable quality. I can't figure out how someone like
that makes millions of dollars off a non-notable commodity.

The author seems to suffer from an intense privilege bias. Try telling someone
in Romania that wealth isn't a notable quality, and they will laugh in your
face.

Intelligence has been commoditized? John Carmack, to name one very easy
example, proves that isn't true, and isn't going to be true in our lifetimes.

A millennia ago the strongest person was also the richest (because the 'dude'
could bop you on the head and steal your cow apparently)? What? That's not
even remotely historically accurate. Now strength doesn't even matter! Well
yippee, we've all been liberated from our primitive past, apparently. Unless
of course you're one of the hundreds of millions in China, or billions
globally, that still use physical labor every day to earn a living. Again,
intense privilege bias.

The only thing this article has going for it, is an appeal to emotion: it's
the type of world the author wishes exists, but in fact does not.

------
unoti
> "For me, maturation has been a series of realizing what doesn’t matter."

Best part of it, for me! I recently realized that I'd be way ahead of the game
if I had a garage full of cans of "Don't give a fuck" and could just open one
up whenever I need it. All kinds of things I get hung up on would stop holding
me back.

------
mathattack
Many financially successful people are socially awkward. This gets amplified
by people putting up a barrier because of the intimidation. This manifests
itself in CEOs who lose contact with new hires in their firm, and famous
speakers standing alone before their presentations. In this case, the level
setting behavior is being the person willing to make contact, whether it's via
small talk or something they care about.

The original article is interesting. I wonder if the author is willing to not
just go beyond things like physical appearance and intelligence, but to also
ignore them entirely. (Are the first two "necessary but not sufficient" or
just "unnecessary"?) My experience in life has been the former, not the
latter.

------
sakura_k
Also, get a writing sample from them. If the word "I" dominates the single-
word histogram, run like hell. (OP fails magnificently).

------
mark_l_watson
A good read. This article resonated with me because my Dad is a member of the
national academy of science, and I grew up around lots of very well known and
successful people. This exposure to famous and gifted people early in life
really helped my career since I usually felt comfortable just walking up to
people in power and talk with them and potentially increase my network.

BTW, I had never read any of Nancy's stuff before. I also really liked
[http://nancyhua.com/2013/02/05/what-to-work-on-when-you-
dont...](http://nancyhua.com/2013/02/05/what-to-work-on-when-you-dont-need-to-
work/)

------
hellbanned_
A rich daddy's "nerdy hehe" girl manifesto on how she goes out with male
models and doesn't feel inferior to them? This is just wrong on so many
levels. As someone who has developed social anxiety because of spending most
of my life in poverty and the stigma that you have to bear with it, especially
as a child, I'm rather offended by this.

I know you guys like to upvote pretty much anything done by a girl because of
some twisted gender equality quota, but why is this here exactly?

~~~
ChristianMarks
Preach it, brother.

------
adamzerner
> I still recognize intelligence, etc. as a property they possess, but I don’t
> define them by it.

Why not? I think that what you mean by "define" is that something matters to
you. Why wouldn't intelligence matter? Whether intelligence means knowledge,
aptitude, or rationality, Don't those things make someone more pleasant to be
around? (sorry if I misunderstood what you're saying)

~~~
lstamour
Haven't you ever been irritated by someone saying, patronizingly, "you're so
smart," when you do something? Where they only see you as someone who can
solve problems, or do things they can't do? Alternatively, are there people in
your life you have to get along with but you feel like "they don't 'get' it,"
like you do? Defining people or yourself by how "smart" you or they are can be
shallow, open to misinterpretation and stops you from seeing others as worthy
to hang out with. If you really can't stand someone or have legitimate need
for certain smarts, then by all means judge by what criteria you need to. But
don't stop yourself before you start -- don't filter out some prospect or new
connection because you can't measure up or think less of them. You may not
have seen things they way they have, but you might find more in common/to like
after giving them a chance.

~~~
adamzerner
I think you're talking about the costs of being smart, when the question is
whether or not you like interacting with _someone else_ who is smart.

But to the question that you bring up, I think you're right - being smart
definitely has it's downsides. Ignorance can be bliss.

------
vayarajesh
Very interesting, however i think intelligence is not only related to
knowledge but it also resembles how a person thinks and that thinking leads to
all the factors you look into a person like ambition, creativity, inspirations
etc.

I think intelligence(not only knowledge) as a bigger definition is one
important quality i look into a person.

I too agree completely that money, beauty do not matter as they are just
attributes

------
forgottenpaswrd
Saying that intelligence, fitness or any other quality does not matter is
living in the future, in an alternate universe.

Probably it won't matter in the future, but it matters today.

Probably in the future it won't matter, but if the future is 100 years from
now it is not a good strategy to live your alternate reality until then.

Just believing that technology alone will solve all the problems looks naive
to me. Imagine for example that a dictator, like Castro could modify their
genome with very expensive treatment for living young forever. This does not
mean the people he forbids earning more than 20$ a month(everybody in Cuba)
will.

Of course, if he does it will be because "he cares so much about his people",
or the revolution, not because he wants to, like any other dictator or person
in power, they will justify maintaining their power over anyone else.

------
spiritplumber
Corollary: If you have the chance, be a little intimidating, and note the
other person's reaction.

------
elwell
What category does HN karma fall into?

~~~
angersock
Hours wasted in life?

------
polarix
> Love, values, interests, goals.

Perhaps names for one's negotiation of:

\- scarcity of imagination and desire

\- scarcity of attention and perspective

\- scarcity of social context

Even in a post-singularity post-material-scarcity society, under the
assumption that all direct desires are met, these tensions remain.

~~~
sizzle
you just blew my mind wow any further reading you could recommended along
similar lines to what you wrote? thanks

------
li-ch
The premise is false: with all the technologies, she still looks ugly.

~~~
angersock
Attack the ideas, not the person.

------
sneak
...except there are different kinds of intelligence.

Some kinds are commodities, no doubt.

Then there're the kinds that tell you WHAT you should be studying. That's a
horse of a different color.

------
tool
From the FB comments: "Jamil Elie Bou Kheir hello from hacker news. thoughtful
article! i think it's not the mere intelligence, beauty, or wealth…"

Caused me to cringe, now not only calling yourself a hacker is a commodity,
but if you can't stretch that far, just declaring that you read hacker news
gains you status?

Not pretending like this site is an exclusive club, but c'mon.

------
sidcool
>Intelligence, beauty, and wealth used to seem like notable qualities, but now
they’re commoditized by technology

Very well put.

------
ajju
Excellent read. Perhaps "Intelligence is a commodity" would be a better title
for it.

------
hrjet
I read this several decades back but it has stuck with me:

Attitude, not aptitude, determines altitude.

~~~
FLUX-YOU
More like "After aptitude has been canceled out, attitude determines altitude"

Not many folks are hiring based on attitude these days.

------
szany
What makes ambition/creativity/drive/perspective/attitude/inspiration any more
intrinsic than intelligence/knowledge?

~~~
jasonshen
I think the idea would be that those are more complex traits that will be
harder to change through new neural technology (compared to simply learning
new information) and thus less likely to change in the medium term.

------
nickthemagicman
What about the ambitions, creativity, drive, and inspirations of a fat balding
unsuccessful guy?

------
notoriousjpg
So until the point of asteroid harvesting we have a reason to be intimidated?

------
elwell
I liked the article.

