
As Leaks Multiply, Fears of a ‘Deep State’ in America - aburan28
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/16/world/americas/deep-state-leaks-trump.html
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pjc50
Oh, there's definitely a deep state and has been for decades. It's the same
deep state that tried to get MLK to commit suicide. It's almost impossible to
get rid of without burning down the intelligence agencies. It's got a long
history of fair-to-disastrous interventions in _other_ countries. It's not
going to go away no matter who you elect, but it might be reined in a bit.

The deep cynic in me is enjoying watching the CIA flail helplessly as someone
inflicts on them what they've inflicted on other countries: a disruptive
right-wing leader supported by the intelligence services of a hostile power.

They've talked up "cyberwar" for so long without realising that it wouldn't be
big fat obvious targets like power plants that got hit, but the machinery of
civil society, parties and media. Or that internet astroturf could be so
effective.

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wallace_f
Whether you are a Trump supporter or not, I appreciate the NYTimes having the
journalistic integrity to print this. The current media urge to uncritically
bash Trump at every opportunity--whether substantiated by evidence or not--is
very real. I am not a Trump supporter.

Greenwald:

>1) Trump presidency is dangerous. >2) CIA/DeepState abuse of spy powers to
subvert elected Govt is dangerous.

> One can cogently believe both.

Source:
[https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/831850140940005377](https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/831850140940005377)

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aedron
The article reads more apologetic than anything. "True, the deep state is
sabotaging Trump, in principle a bad thing, but here are a lot of good reasons
why they would do that."

In fact it is the typical hypocrisy: We like our democratic system, greatest
in the world. Except when things don't go the way we want - then it's okay to
circumvent it.

~~~
wallace_f
From the article:

>So is the United States seeing the rise of its own deep state?

>Not quite, experts say, but the echoes are real — and disturbing.

I don't agree with the NYT here. 8 years ago I'd think the below linked
juxtaposition of American leaders was a bit paranoid. Today I think it's more
important than ever. Eisenhower warned us of the Deep State. Truman warned us
of it. JFK warned us of it, said he was going to destroy it, and was
assassinated.

Obama told us not to worry:
[https://files.catbox.moe/sa27od.jpg](https://files.catbox.moe/sa27od.jpg)

Sources: Truman: 'the CIA has turned into cloak and dagger operations within
the USA' [https://theintercept.com/2016/02/22/in-1974-call-to-
abolish-...](https://theintercept.com/2016/02/22/in-1974-call-to-abolish-cia-
sanders-followed-in-footsteps-of-jfk-truman/) Eisenhower -
[http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html](http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html)
JFK - said 'he wanted to splinter the CIA to a thousand pieces'
[http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive/pdf?res=9400E4DB1639E63...](http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive/pdf?res=9400E4DB1639E63BBC4D51DFB266838D679EDE)

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wallace_f
I can't edit my post but I should make note the meme I linked to references a
spurious Jefferson quote: [https://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/when-
government-fe...](https://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/when-government-
fears-people-there-liberty-spurious-quotation)

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jgalt212
Deep State implies coordination. While all these leakers have taken action to
ostensibly subvert Trump or his policies, the leakers do seem to have their
own individual agendas. ergo, no deep state.

I'd posit the leaking comes from the license plate maxim, "Don't tread on me."

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syphilis2
It's probably too optimistic to believe they'll decide that the way to prevent
leaks is to be transparent.

~~~
yellowapple
Optimistic indeed, but it would certainly solve the problem, in a sense; when
everything's public record, what's left to leak?

~~~
em3rgent0rdr
I think it is a great idea. Ideally you could have everything the government
done be public, except for maybe nuclear launch codes and specific military
maneuvers.

~~~
wallace_f
The government serving the public being idealistic and too optimistic is 2017.

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ImTalking
Classic m.o. of a fledging dictator. Begin to instil mistrust into the people
of the very core of the political system, then once this mistrust permeates
society enough, come in with an alternative system which, surprisingly,
consolidates power at the top.

Bring in the family as well, because everyone else is untrustworthy; a classic
ploy used in North Korea, Iraq (Hussein), and virtually every other dictator.

