

Nokia posts disappointing Lumia sales - thomholwerda
http://www.osnews.com/story/27534/Nokia_posts_disappointing_Lumia_sales

======
jawns
I was seriously considering getting a Lumia 1020 purely because of the camera,
which gets rave reviews everywhere.

I was even willing to abandon Android and put up with the Windows OS. But
unfortunately, to buy it unlocked would cost $600, and the only carrier that
was subsidizing it was AT&T, which I have sworn off.

In the end, I got a Samsung S4 Zoom. Its camera is second only to the Lumia,
it's got a great xenon flash, I get to stick with Android, it cost only about
$350 unlocked, and it works on a GSM network MVNO, so my cellphone bill ends
up being $40/mo., instead of $85/mo. on AT&T.

~~~
nailer
> But unfortunately, to buy it unlocked would cost $600, and the only carrier
> that was subsidizing it was AT&T, which I have sworn off.

All phones cost that much. 'subsidized' phones cost much more.

Unless someone's poor enough to need a carrier plan to buy a smartphone -
which, then again, they should avoid going into debt even more - then an
unlocked phone is by far the cheapest option.

A pity Nokia (and other companies that sell smartphones upfront) have to
educate people in the basics of personal finance before they can sell a unit
(not picking on you specifically, the belief that one 'saves money' by buying
a carrier-locked subsidised phone is pretty common).

~~~
masklinn
> an unlocked phone is by far the cheapest option.

That assumes the carrier provides equivalent but lower-priced subsidies-free
plans. Otherwise the would-be subsidy ends up as additional profits in the
carrier's pocket.

~~~
jawns
Exactly. If I'm going to go with a particular carrier anyway, then it's better
to go with a subsidized phone, unless I get a discount for bringing my own
unlocked phone.

The error that nailer thinks I made, I did not make.

------
tluyben2
Not too surprising; outside HN comments I have yet to find anyone actually
liking these phones here (in the EU). Most people I know who have one
(including me) like the hardware but not the software and they don't like the
hardware enough to not get an iPhone or Android. I tried to like it but it's
gathering dust only to be swept off when a client wants to order an app for it
from us. After that it goes into the drawer again.

From non tech people I usually hear complaints about it still just not working
all too well (annoying to hook up to computers, not being able to easily put
movies and music on them compared to android/ios, no worthwhile apps compared,
random crashes).

Like said; the only positive things I hear about it are raving HN'ers here or
MS employees on Facebook.

~~~
freehunter
As one of those raving HN'ers (although not an MS employee) who now uses an
iPhone, all of those things you mention are legitimate issues, and I don't
know many WP owners who would disagree. The real heartbreaker is that even
with these seemingly show-stopping issues, WP combined with Nokia hardware is
so good that it's hard to turn away from. Even though the software has so many
issues that have been unresolved for so long, it's still _that good_. It was a
tough choice to give it up, I only did so because it had let me down on more
than a few occasions where I really needed it.

The last time I found a mobile OS that instilled that level of "so good it
doesn't matter that it's bad" was WebOS, and I frequently compare the two.
Unfortunately, I see the same future for WP as what WebOS got.

~~~
EnderMB
This was the feeling I had when I had played with the recent versions of WP.
It felt like a fantastic OS, and the hardware ran it brilliantly.

My own personal showstopper isn't a fault with the OS, but with how the phones
look. Nokia just seems so far behind in terms of designing an attractive
phone.

If Nokia were to release a phone that looked as nice as my Galaxy Nexus, had a
large screen, and didn't cost an absolute bomb I'd probably go for WP over
Android.

~~~
Juha
I'll have to disagree with you on the design aspect. In my opinion Nokia N9
has been the nicest looking and feeling phone ever. When you have it in your
hand the finishing feels great, especially the subtly curved screen that has
deep enough blacks that blend into the black borders seamlessly.

[http://velmont.no/wp-
content/uploads/2011/08/Nokia-N9.jpg](http://velmont.no/wp-
content/uploads/2011/08/Nokia-N9.jpg)

~~~
miguelrochefort
Have you not heard of the Lumia 800?

[http://wmpoweruser.com/wp-
content/uploads/2011/11/lumia-800-...](http://wmpoweruser.com/wp-
content/uploads/2011/11/lumia-800-black.jpg)

The only difference (beside the OS) is the presence of tactile buttons (back,
home, search).

------
mnglkhn2
On Windows Phone, one thing that I like a lot is Nokia's HERE suite (maps and
turn-by-turn navigation). Free and really good. The hardware is good and the
OS is nice too. One thing I was impressed is that it seems actually easier to
develop for Windows Phone than for iOS or Android.

~~~
colkassad
I have a Lumia 920 and I find the turn-by-turn navigation to be abysmal. It
gives distances in yards and the vocabulary does not extend much past "keep
right", "keep left", and "follow the course of the road". It's also flat our
wrong more often than not where I live. Google tells you street names and exit
numbers, which is vital in large metropolitan areas.

Also, map searching is no where near as good as Google Maps.

~~~
HelloMcFly
Two things: 1) you can change the distance units, and 2) the app will
pronounces the names of many commonly-named streets, but it is certainly true
that its vocabulary is much smaller than some other options.

------
JaakkoP
Here's a better article, although in Finnish
[http://www.hs.fi/talous/Nokian+puhelinihme+p%C3%A4%C3%A4ttyi...](http://www.hs.fi/talous/Nokian+puhelinihme+p%C3%A4%C3%A4ttyi+loppuvuonna+romahdukseen/a1390459401484?ref=hs-
art-top-3)

I'm not completely surprised at the results. I've tried to be an advocate, but
Microsoft's slow development cycle along with lack of apps frustrates me more
and more. No Venmo, Uber, Lyft or almost any other new and useful app that
comes out. The camera is still pretty great, but alone it's just not enough to
get a Lumia at the moment.

~~~
madoublet
I think the app selection has actually gotten pretty good, but I do not do
much ride sharing. But, the problem for me is the ridiculously slow update
cycle.

~~~
ams6110
Slow update cycles are an advantage to some buyers, and some people prefer
stability over churn. Among consumers, that's a minority though.

------
chflamplighter
Lumia 928 owner and I love my phone, for me the OS/HW is great. To me, it
feels like a lot of the dissatisfaction centers around the fact that WP is an
MS product. Of course there are things that could be enhanced or done better
but compared with my past experience with iOS and Android, WP is tops for me.
That being said, it is a beautiful thing to have choice so more power to the
iOS and Android users. Get in where you fit in!

------
pmelendez
I am a bit confused by this, the author actually edited the numbers ( "Nokia
has confirmed it sold 8.2 million Lumias in Q4" ) which is the double of 2012.

How is that "disappointing"?

~~~
adrianlmm
Is not a surprise, the Osnews editor is well know for being anti-Nokia since
their aliance with MS, so spect more from him.

------
leoedin
I think porting my app to WP would be quite fun. I like C#/.NET, I like VS.
What I don't like is Windows 8. I'm not willing to install Windows 8 just so
that I can develop an app for a small number of users.

Surely MS would help themselves by letting Windows 7 users develop for WP?
Their ecosystem is small but their development platform is, in my eyes, the
nicest of the bunch. The bulk of the various mobile app stores are filled with
apps developed as a hobby, and requiring Windows 8 is a huge hurdle for a
hobbyist.

~~~
miguelrochefort
What don't you like about Windows 8?

As someone who developped for iOS, Android and Windows Phone/8, I prefer (by
far) the MS ecosystem and tools. It's just nicer to use, and I can build an
app in a fraction of the time (for the same quality) as it takes with other
platforms.

With Xamarin, things will get even better (I'll get to use VS for 80% of my
work).

------
ladzoppelin
" tluyben2 41 minutes ago | link

Not too surprising; outside HN comments I have yet to find anyone actually
liking these phones here (in the EU). Most people I know who have one
(including me) like the hardware but not the software and they don't like the
hardware enough to not get an iPhone or Android. I tried to like it but it's
gathering dust only to be swept off when a client wants to order an app for it
from us. After that it goes into the drawer again."

Nokia 928 is an amazing phone and Windows 8 phone is really smooth. An article
on HN yesterday talked about the rise of these phones in specific markets one
them being Europe. Most people I know that actually own one really like it and
think its much better than Android. Obviously the previous comment is just an
opinion and not fact.

------
AnotherDesigner
I like the design language Microsoft came up with for Windows Phone. So I
bought a Nokia Lumia phone. I quickly regretted it. This was before Windows
Phone 8 was released but we were promised "many of the features" with Windows
Phone 7.8. I waited, and waited, and waited. Eventually I was told that they
had changed their minds and Windows Phone 7.8 wouldn't even be coming to my
particular phone.

Windows Phone 7 is missing a lot of very basic features. It's time consuming
and frustrating using it even for the most basic tasks. The web browser is
terrible. It lacks most popular 3rd-party services and apps. And the camera
seems to be programmed to take out-of-focus photos.

I will never buy another Nokia phone, or Windows Phone, again. They had their
chance.

------
awjr
My ex-neighbour is 'high' up in Nokia and I can remember having a conversation
about how the Lumia would make a fantastic Android phone. I think he mentioned
in passing that there was a team that briefly looked into making an Nokia
Android phone, but this was killed off before the Microsoft buyout.

It's one of those phones I would buy immediately if they did an Android
version. It's a very very nice piece of kit (in particular the camera) but if
it doesn't run the apps you use on a daily basis, you are not going to touch
it with a barge pole.

Unfortunately this will never happen. Microsoft would, in effect, be admitting
their mobile platform is a dead end.

~~~
bhauer
This sentiment that Nokia _should make_ or _should have made_ Android phones
is common. I won't disagree with the article that Lumia sales are
disappointing and that Nokia would have faced much harder decisions today were
they not part of Microsoft.

But I find it surprising how often I hear fans of Android bemoan the dearth of
Nokia Android phones. It implies that there is some hole in the Android market
that would be filled by Nokia. That is remarkable—I'd go so far to say
implausible—considering the wide spectrum of manufacturers already providing
Android hardware.

A quick glance at Verizon's current offerings shows seven manufacturers
offering Android phones via Verizon, many with multiple options. Meanwhile,
for fans of Windows Phone—few of those as there may be—we have Nokia, Samsung,
and HTC, offering one option each. And if rumors are to believed, Samsung may
only be offering Windows Phone thanks to Microsoft paying them to do so.

To suggest that Nokia should offer Android phones implies there is some subtle
quirk or distinguishing design element that would make a Nokia android
preferable to the seven existing Android manufacturers' offerings. Certainly
there isn't anything as substantial as a wholly new look and feel or new way
of working with applications to distinguish the potential Nokia Android phone
from those seven other manufacturers. So it would be something like the color
of the case, maybe a few proprietary apps, the material, a few minor specs
such as a good camera or wireless charging. Though many existing Android
phones offer all of those things and more.

Meanwhile, being the principal Windows Phone manufacturer brings _actual_
variation to the consumer. In fact, taking away the operating system, the
Lumia hardware is not very unique. Spec-by-spec, it's about on par with an
average Android phone. But it piqued my interest because it's not-Android and
I wanted something new to try having become tired of the same old thing. My
wife is now waiting for the Icon to be released to replace her Galaxy Nexus
because she too wants to move on.

So yes, Nokia's sales are disappointing. Maybe they will look up in the
future. Maybe not. But as a consumer, I _treasure_ that they offer something
more interesting than just another Android phone.

~~~
Someone
_" To suggest that Nokia should offer Android phones implies there is some
subtle quirk or distinguishing design element that would make a Nokia android
preferable to the seven existing Android manufacturers' offerings."_

There is: Nokia's Android phones would be the only ones with a Nokia name on
them. Despite the problems Nokia got (itself) in, the Nokia brand still is
very strong for some.

------
yawz
I said it at the time: "Two mobile-losers' getting together doesn't
automatically make a winner". It's still the case. When you go beyond hard-
core Nokia fans and MS fans, who buys Lumia?

~~~
theg2
People who like me got tired of Android's fragmentation and constant "clunky"
feeling (I got so sick of flashing roms just to get my battery to survive the
day) and don't want to buy into the Apple ecosystem. I've had a Lumia 920 for
over a year now and think its absolutely the best phone I've ever owned. Co-
worker also go the same phone, and switched back to iOS so he could iMessage
with his mom but otherwise loved the experience as well.

It's a solid piece of hardware with a reliable and easy to use OS, other than
a few missing apps (I'm not big into them myself), it's an impressive entry
into the market.

~~~
danieldk
I have owned a Lumia 820 and 920. The hardware was absolutely great, but I
have grown to dislike Windows Phone's shortcomings:

\- No separate volume control for the ringer, music, etc. I swear I've become
almost deaf twice.

\- No notification center. I do believe tiles are great, but they are not
enough alone. I quickly want to have an overview of new messages, if possible
reply inline.

\- Sometimes I had random reboots (on both phones). Sometimes I couldn't turn
the phone off (it would immediately start again).

\- You cannot put applications on an SD card, which was annoying, given the
820's 8GB.

\- There is a serious lack of applications. The applications that are there
are generally of a bad quality. Even Microsoft's Facebook application is flaky
compared to the iOS and Android counterparts.

I sold both phones and bought a Nexus 4, which I am very happy with, and has
great battery life (not noticeably better or worse than the 920). I still like
the iPhone the most (I had iPhones for 4.5 years), but the extra value of a 5s
or 5c is not worth the price difference between an iPhone and a Nexus to me.

~~~
freehunter
I like the "one volume control" feature best of all. I used a Nexus 4 and I
now own an iPhone, and the volume behavior is... unexpected, to put it nicely.
On my iPhone right now, I have the silent switch turned on, so the phone
doesn't ring. I'm opening up a YouTube video to see something but I don't want
to disturb the people around me. Thinking ahead at the home screen, I hold the
volume down button until the volume is at the lowest. I then load up the
video, and it starts blaring at full volume. I can't turn it down until it's
already making noise? How does that make any sense?

While it might be better to have different controls for everything, at least
on Windows Phone I know that if the phone is muted, sound _will not play_. At
_all_.

------
felickz2
I am rather sure that having so many phones exclusive to ATT is not helping
their cause. I would call that sandbagging the numbers to have 1 phone (928),
2 "Nokia Generations" of releases behind on the largest (BY FAR) smartphone
provider in the USA (Verizon). Lumia 929 has been FCC approved since November,
WHERE IS IT? The holy grail 1020 still exclusive to ATT, if the numbers are so
disappointing put a CDMA radio in it and SELL IT!

~~~
freehunter
If I remember correctly, Verizon doesn't particularly want Windows Phones.
They sure aren't pushing very hard to get them.

------
pavlov
The dubious comfort in the mobile phone market is that when you're weak,
there's always someone doing much worse still.

While Nokia managed to sell 8.2 million Lumias last quarter, Blackberry sold
only 1.1 million BB10 devices in the same timeframe. The old brands have
certainly fallen quick and hard.

------
F1reman
Not surprising at all.

Nokia should have move to Android 5 years ago when Samsung did.

~~~
chiph
But moving to Android means they're running a commodity OS, and they're
competing against all the low-price phones from China. That would kill the
company. They needed to offer a premium phone with an OS that is just
compatible enough with desktops to work.

I've had a Lumia 928 for several months now (after 3 iPhones in a row), and my
concern is that Microsoft isn't releasing OS updates fast enough. I get
updates from Nokia for their HERE apps, but the core OS needs some fixes
(single volume control, compilation albums being split up in the music app),
and I'm not seeing them.

~~~
rthomas6
What about Samsung and HTC? They have high-end successful Android phones.
Though I haven't looked at the financials of the company or anything... are
they not doing well?

~~~
FigBug
Samsung takes 95% of Android profits. HTC, Motorla, LG, Sony etc get to fight
for the rest. I wonder how long Google is willing to be Samsung's R&D
department for free.

~~~
rthomas6
Wow, that's unfortunate. Those other companies have phones that are just as
nice as the Galaxy line, in my opinion. Especially HTC with the One.

------
iaskwhy
Very poor article. Hopefully we get some better analysis from Asymco or
someone else.

~~~
vidyesh
Here you go
[https://twitter.com/asymco/status/426357753188466688](https://twitter.com/asymco/status/426357753188466688)

------
thedrbrian
But aren't they selling like gangbusters in Europe?

~~~
iaskwhy
I don't think they released numbers per continent/region. Maybe they sold most
of the 8m units in Europe.

For comparison, Apple expected to announce between 50 to 59m iPhones sold last
quarter. The results are usually a little bit better than the official
guidance so maybe 60m. That means Nokia sold around 13% of what Apple probably
did with the iPhone.

~~~
huxley
Sadly for Nokia, the majority of their sales will likely be the low margin 52x
and 62x Lumias.

