
UK intelligence agency admits unlawfully spying on Privacy International - severine
https://privacyinternational.org/press-release/2283/press-release-uk-intelligence-agency-admits-unlawfully-spying-privacy
======
kartan
I think that historically law enforcement and intelligence agencies are
strongly leaning to the right. They use the power granted by citizens to do
their jobs and use it to pursue their personal political agendas.

"The activist, Kate Wilson, had a two-year intimate relationship with Mark
Kennedy, who was known to her as Mark Stone. She only found out in 2010 that
he had been an undercover officer tasked with infiltrating environmental
protest groups." [https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/21/uk/uk-police-spy-
activist...](https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/21/uk/uk-police-spy-activist-
relationship-intl/index.html)

Instead of investigating power corruption, the relationship between far-right
groups and Russia, etc. UK thinks that infiltrating "environmental groups" and
using government resources to allow an spy to have sex with an activist is
more important, because "environmental activists" are bad...

Law enforcement and intelligence agencies around the world have a problem with
lack of professionalism were personal political agendas triumph doing the duty
that they have been tasked to do. That is why they are so inefficient and
things like the Russian meddling with Brexit and the USA elections happen.

~~~
raxxorrax
And if there are no consequences, they will continue to do so.

Surveillance is no partisan issue anymore. With the absence of further
evidence, I believe the Russian influence, not by the lack of trying, is
limited in scope. Brexit and US elections have more believable domestic policy
explanations. On the contrary, I think these stories serve as justification to
fortify intelligence powers.

Like you said, I believe it has been historically a domain further to the
right. Currently, it is not a partisan issue anymore.

We even have testimony that at least to some degree federal agencies in the US
were fiercely situated in other political camps. This is of course the
fundamental argument for limiting powers of any intelligence agency.

------
throw2016
We are beginning to look like fake democracies. The press and commentators
seem to have no trouble getting 'charged up' about China or Russia but there
is a shocking absence of scrutiny and outrage about actions at home.

What makes this absurd is its being done in a 'democracy' making that word
increasingly meaningless as a marker. Activities that define a surveillance
state cannot coalesce into 'western democracy' without rendering it
meaningless.

Its unlikely without mainstream protest the surveillance state project will
simply fold on its own. And the dangerous dynamic of denial and dissonance
that systematically focuses attention and outrage on 'the other' is letting
citizens and media affect commitment to these values while letting their own
governments off the hook.

~~~
chopin
It's less democracy and more rule of law what is sacrificed, imho. Which is
way more important.

~~~
raxxorrax
You either have a democratic legitimacy or you rule by power. If you have
power to rule, you have power to change legislation at will. So it becomes
rather meaningless.

So, if you refer to western democracies, the one necessitates the other
anyway.

And in this case, surveillance as part of the executive branch of a government
can have a severe and chilling penalty to any form of democratic decision-
making process.

------
joeseeder
As surveillance is more and more about computers, networks and not people
running with microphones...

Maybe IT sector, like Medical, should have their Hippocratic Oath, and we
should enforce it among our peers.

Too many times I read that some Organisations do evil things. Each of these
organisations is made up of people, and good deal of them is some kind of IT
specialist. Without IT supporting these actions, maybe, these orgs would not
get as far with evil as they are getting to today.

------
comboy
Remember times when a thing like this would cause an outrage?

~~~
pjc50
Honestly? No. It's only ever been a small group of us techies and lefties that
get outraged. The general public is far more likely to be demanding that
Something Be Done. European countries with a recent history of fascist
occupation or the Stasi have a much more intuitive understanding of the risks.

~~~
eru
Alas, the 'Alternative fuer Deutschland' is more popular in the formerly
Stasi-plagued East than in the West. So the 'more intuitive understanding of
the risks' might not work that well?

~~~
Swinx43
That has nothing to do with their perception of risk regarding surveillance.

The supporters of the AfD view the current establishment as their main enemy
and it has everything to do with their views on migration.

If the AfD was openly campaigning to introduce surveillance laws those same
areas would not be in favour of them.

(At least that is what I have come to understand about them as a foreigner
living in Germany)

~~~
eru
Thanks. I have been living as a German abroad for all of AfD's rise.

------
wayanon
I need to be educated about why this is a big deal. I’m sure MI5 will be doing
the same to Greenpeace, Amnesty and others too. What does the law say, that
they can’t tap phones/gather data without a good reason?

~~~
wlll
Most countries have laws limiting the scope of the activity of it's spies. In
this case the headline covers wether this latest activity did break one of
those laws:

> UK intelligence agency admits unlawfully spying on Privacy International

There's a lot of law that limits the activities of states in general, and when
government oversteps these bounds it's a big deal because when they continue
to do it you risk the foundations of the state itself, allowing for
authoritarianism, dictators etc. etc.

------
andy_ppp
Slightly off topic, however, I always wonder if there is a team of spooks out
there producing propaganda in the comments for people on hacker news.

~~~
pdkl95
[https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-
manipulation/](https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/)

~~~
emayljames
Thank you. An atmosphere has been created, that trys to make anybody that puts
information about the secret services psyops out there an alex jones
conspiracy theorist. Western secret services have morphed into the East German
Stazi.

------
stevew20
Is it just me, or do all of these state operated bulk data spying programs
come off as incredibly rapey?

NSA: hey, can I read your email?

Me: nah, I really don't know you that well...I like my privacy, and frankly
don't really trust you with my data... You tend to accidentally leak it to
hackers, because you're irresponsible.

NSA: I'm gonna read your email. Read every single message. Every byte. Every
bit.

Me: okay that's creepy as fuck, please go away.

NSA: ahhh yeha I'm taking your email to party town! I'm looking at all your
contacts now

Me:Jesus just get the fuck away... Aren't you funded by my tax dollars? Why am
I paying you sick fucks???

NSA: cause we are the NSA, and you don't have a goddam choice. We are gonna
take whatever we want from you, and you are gonna smile and bend over, cause
there are no other options!

Me: yeah okay well maybe this is why the 2nd amendment is a THING

~~~
throwawayy1001
U ok boo?

~~~
stevew20
Ah yea, mostly, just frustrated that they just keep creepin on all of us. No
means no, ya know?

------
auslander
"What we do: We are developing principles, policy positions and research, that
will identify the changes we all need"

It'd be more useful to develop actual privacy end user software and tools,
imho. All Safari 12 users lost adblocker extentions overnight :)

------
radicalgold
I wasn't shocked at all because UK is part of the 5-eyes alliance, so pretty
much everything is monitored

