
Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S - dcgudeman
https://www.wsj.com/articles/apple-supplier-foxconn-to-build-10-billion-factory-in-u-s-1501102903
======
ty_a
$3 billion in subsidies for 3,000 jobs.

[http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2017/07/26/scott-
walker-h...](http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2017/07/26/scott-walker-heads-
d-c-trump-prepares-wisconsin-foxconn-announcement/512077001/)

~~~
dshields1
The subsidy is $1.5B for 13,000 jobs. The other half of the subsidy is for
capital investment and construction expenses.

It's still a huge number though.

~~~
bbayles
The article states that: "At $3 billion for 13,000 jobs, the Wisconsin deal
would cost $231,000 per job."

By comparison, economists have estimated $125K/job-year to $202K/job-year from
the 2009 stimulus (ARRA). [1]

[1]
[https://files.stlouisfed.org/files/htdocs/publications/revie...](https://files.stlouisfed.org/files/htdocs/publications/review/2014/q2/dupor.pdf)
, page 3

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weberc2
I'm confused about the comparison between cost per job and cost per job year.
Presumably this (the Wisconsin deal) would be the better deal as the jobs
presumably last more than one year?

~~~
syshum
Doubtful alot of the Recovery Act was for One Time Construction projects, like
paving a road.

There were also alot of one off projects like sending people out to help with
Energy Efficiency in homes.

There was not alot of long term stable jobs in there.

~~~
weberc2
Your first sentence suggests that you disagreed with my previous post, but
your rationale very much supports my point. Spending 125-250K on a job that
only exists for a year is markedly worse than paying a comparable amount for a
job that lasts many years.

~~~
syshum
I dont think the government should be paying for any job.

I disagree with this corporate subsidy, and I disagreed with the Recovery act

~~~
weberc2
That's fine, but my statement was neither for not against. Just observing that
one appears to be a better bargain than the other.

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WheelsAtLarge
I find it hard to believe that they won't automate it to the max. They've
started to do it in china, why wouldn't they do it here where labor is more
expensive and the factory is brand new. Foxconn has been manufacturing for a
long time and they are looking to reduce costs not increase them by building
in the US. Automation is the best way. I bet the jobs are not long term.

Some jobs are better than none but don't pat your back with congratulations.

~~~
lossolo
They don't want to have problems with current US administration and Trump
wants factories, so they give him factories.

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krapp
Meaning the automation starts as soon as Trump leaves.

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matt_wulfeck
Automated new factories here in the homeland is still better for us than empty
factories.

~~~
WheelsAtLarge
Maybe, they get very large tax breaks plus the take up resources. It's
probably a breakeven situation.

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WheelsAtLarge
This reminds me of the 1B apple datacenter announcement in 2011 that
ultimately created 50 jobs. Reality sux.

[http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-new-data-center-
north-c...](http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-new-data-center-north-
carolina-created-50-jobs-2011-11)

------
__x0x__
From a Reuters article: "In 2013, Foxconn said it would invest $30 million and
hire 500 workers for a new factory in Pennsylvania, but that facility was
never completed." So I wouldn't hold my breath.

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Animats
What, 13,000 factory workers? Foxconn isn't going to use mostly robots? Gou
has said he wants to get rid of the "animals" in his plants.

~~~
prklmn
3,000 workers according to Foxconn. The trump administration has said it could
create up to 13,000 over the coming years, so who knows what that really
means...

~~~
bitdeveloper
I heard on the news that 10,000 construction jobs would be created, so perhaps
both are right - 10,000 temporary construction jobs, and 3,000 permanent/plant
jobs.

~~~
brown9-2
Counting temporary construction jobs as permanent seems a little misleading.

~~~
mattnewton
Politicians mislead to look better?!?

Though you are right, this looks like an exceptionally misleading deal from
the point of view of the taxpayer. When I think of Foxconn workers I dont
think of the kinds of jobs I think we would want to heavily invest in, but I
hope I am wrong.

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ArlenBales
Are the majority of these 13,000 jobs likely to be minimum wage?

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tanilama
What do u expect? It is Foxconn, it needs bloody labor not Google engineers.

~~~
KekDemaga
Walmart and Amazon pay well above the minimum wage. It might be because they
are so altruistic but I suspect they can't find labor worth keeping at that
price. I imagine the same will be true for foxconn.

~~~
ribosometronome
"Well above" isn't super meaningful. I believe Wal-mart's minimum pay is 9/hr
and most employees are closer to 12-13. That's not going to be a livable wage
in many areas. Add in that half of those are part time and not getting
employee supplemented health insurance and it gets less livable.

~~~
KekDemaga
Walmart has a national minimum of $10 an hour the federal minimum is $7.25. I
consider a roughly 25% premium to be a significant increase when talking about
salaries. My comment is in regards to these jobs paying minimum wage and the
evidence leads me to believe that it is virtually certain that these jobs will
pay a significant percentage more than that. (not to mention all the
managerial and skilled labor jobs that will pay many times more that will come
with them)

~~~
wavefunction
Walmart was forced to offer $10 an hour because they were facing staff
shortages. The interesting thing is that their profits certainly didn't nose-
dive after the bump in their labor's wage rate.

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bogomipz
>"This is a great day for American workers and manufacturers and everyone who
believes in the concept and the label 'Made in the USA,' " said an ebullient
President Donald Trump at the White House announcement."

Why is this great for American manufacturers exactly? I'm guessing Trump
doesn't know that Foxconn is a Taiwanese company? That sounds about right.

~~~
CamelCaseName
Foxconn has more factories in China than in any other country and their
largest factory is in Shenzhen.

The implied "Made in USA" vs "Made in China" is fair.

~~~
bogomipz
My comment was very clearly asking about the "American manufacturers" part of
the quote not the "Made in USA" part.

Foxconn has factories around the globe but they are a Taiwanese manufacturer
not an American manufacturer, they are traded on the TWSE:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn)

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truthhurtstoss
That's a one time cost.

Sounds reasonable when you compare it to California spending $21 Billion each
year to subsidize 3 million people.

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dmode
This is a giant photo op good will by Foxconn. Just like the Carrier
announcement. My bet is that there won't be any factory, and even if there is
it would be a small outpost employing a handful of people. All financed by
giant taxpayer subsidies

~~~
maxerickson
The subsidies are tax credits. They make the location more attractive, they
don't finance the project.

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bytefederal-ceo
The subsidy turns lost tax revenue (taxes == slavery) into jobs for US
citizens. Please explain how this is a bad thing?

~~~
somedangedname
Thanks for your input, 4 minute-old account!

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cjnicholls
without paywall: [http://archive.is/SiGPl](http://archive.is/SiGPl)

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timavr
Apparently US labor is cheaper then Chinese.

Wow!

~~~
adventured
Almost correct. It's the overall cost equation that is important, not just
labor though.

"U.S. Manufacturing costs are almost as low as China’s, and that’s a very big
deal"

[http://fortune.com/2015/06/26/fracking-manufacturing-
costs/](http://fortune.com/2015/06/26/fracking-manufacturing-costs/)

"These days, China's labor costs are only 4% cheaper than those in the U.S.
when productivity is factored in, according to Oxford Economics. "

[http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/17/news/economy/china-cheap-
lab...](http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/17/news/economy/china-cheap-labor-
productivity/index.html)

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dingdongding
This will be in Paul Ryan's district. Fishy enough?

~~~
1123581321
For anyone actually interested in learning how hard southern Wisconsin has
worked to get manufacturing back after the GM plant closure, I recommend
Janesville: an American Story. Suffice to say that many, many people both R
and D want these jobs in Paul Ryan's district and willingness to offer
incentives is fully bipartisan. [https://www.amazon.com/Janesville-American-
Story-Amy-Goldste...](https://www.amazon.com/Janesville-American-Story-Amy-
Goldstein/dp/1501102230)

