
Why I DON'T regret getting straight A's in college - stats
http://robbieallen.com/2007/12/thirtysomething-why-i-dont-regret-getting-straight-as-in-college/
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paulgb
I'm in university now, and I hate seeing the people around me more concerned
about their marks than how much they are learning. For one thing, it's been
shown that people enjoy things more - and do better - when they are motivated
by an internal desire instead (say, curiosity or a desire for education) of an
external reward (marks).

I am in the fortunate situation that I don't have to prove myself to anyone
[1] (although I try to keep my options open for grad school), so I can focus
on learning instead of pretending to. That isn't to say that everyone who gets
straight A's is pretending; but in my experience someone who's main motivation
is to maximize their marks does so at the expense of their education. In
theory the two are perfectly correlated, but in practice they aren't.

[1] I don't mean to say that I don't have a psychological need to prove myself
to others and others do, but that I don't have an immediate need to keep high
marks. Between scholarships, marks, internships, etc. most people I know need
to stress over marks for one reason or another.

~~~
edw519
"I hate seeing the people around me more concerned about their marks than how
much they are learning."

I hate seeing the people around me more concerned about anything than how they
treat other people.

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tarkin2
I find grades are only a cursory indicator of intellectual worth. For sure,
those who achieved A's are definitely hard-workers and have most probably
looked into certain subjects at more depth and breadth (which they'll
hopefully remember lest the whole educational experience seems totally
worthless to me).

I achieved A's in university. But then I know a guy who did poorly in
comparison. Whereas I found what the markers expected of me he found what he
wanted to know and explored what he wanted to explore, often deviating with
standard practice to the detriment of his grades.

Although we are both as competent as each other his university edification
seemed far more personally worthwhile; I learnt for the markers and industry
he learnt to increase his understanding and capability in areas sometimes not
formally rewarded (with marks).

I'm sure you can do both: accept the curriculum and learn it for your own
benefit. I'm sure this is more or less everyone's ideal. But it seems a lot of
people loose focus on their personal edification and concentrate on pleasing
their markers.

For an example, I'm sure there are courses on XML. You could spend your time
becoming adroit in your Schema definition et al or you could spend your time
pondering about the general subject in more depth and even rejecting the
conventional wisdom. I'd argue the latter course of action is quite valid; but
you won't get any marks for it.

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DocSavage
"I too was obsessed with getting straight A's in college (undergraduate)."

Makes me wonder about the other casualty besides friends & time -- namely
experimentation at the time you should be exploring fields of interest. The
drive to get straight A's could prevent students from taking "risky" courses,
ones that could ruin that perfect GPA. Pre-meds/law that take Physics for
Poets instead of Physics for aspiring Physicists. Going for the grades might
lead you to avoid interesting courses that are far from your perceived
strengths, or jumping into a cool grad-level course where you don't quite meet
the prerequisites.

~~~
aswanson
There may indeed be a correlation to gpa perfection and incuriosity.

~~~
aston
Because no one ever takes classes they're interested in _and_ actually manages
to do well in them...

~~~
aswanson
Hardly. And I'm sure you're not the type I'm referring to, one who throws an
equal amount of energy into everything and therefore focuses on nothing. They
are looking for the grade rather than mastery, insight, or comprehension.

~~~
aston
I actually am the type, sort of. Which is why I take exception to the
generalizations you're making.

I think it's entirely plausible that a person goes through college taking
classes--including difficult ones--that they're interested in and getting good
grades in all of them. I also think it's not impossible to have mastery or
insight or comprehension (or all three) in spite of breadth of study. I base
these beliefs on my own experience...

~~~
aswanson
You are not the type I am speaking of then because to you comprehension and
insight _are_ important, and good grades are an artifact of that.

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indie01
Skimping on sleep in undergrad and not regretting it, chalking it up as
"practice" for life sleeping in a cube? That doesn't sound very fun. I think
there's a saying. . . something like "A students end up working for C
students."

I've always wondered where that leaves B students. I have no ideas how many
A's I earned, exactly, but I do recall my GPA to a vague notion of a range
between 3 decimal places.

~~~
Shooter
I believe the C students work for the B students in the business world.

B > C > A.

And the D students run the country (into the ground.) ;-)

~~~
falsestprophet
That sure sounds like a joke.

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aston
_"For type-A personalities like myself, it is very difficult to turn my
passion for achievement off and on like the flip of a switch."_

Basically all that needed to be said.

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RobbieAllen
Many of you are missing the point. (neilc has it right) I didn't want to
achieve straight A's for the sake of achieving straight A's. It is not like I
told anyone (or needed to prove myself to anyone else). I did it because that
was the mark of achieving mastery in the course (now you may disagree with
that). Most of the poeple I knew that claimed to be learning a lot outside of
the class curriculum and ended up with C's actually didn't learn very much
because they spent more time slacking off than trying to learn.

As far as spending time to get A's instead of exploring, I didn't mention it
but besides the two internships I also participated in a study aboard at the
University of Manchester (England) and traveled all over Europe.

People see this issue as black and white, but trying to get A's does not
preclude you from doing other things. You just have to be willing to put in
the time to get A's (ie, learning the subject matter) PLUS do other things.
Most people don't have the work ethic.

-Robbie

~~~
imsteve
> People see this issue as black and white, but trying to get A's does not
> preclude you from doing other things.

I believe that it does. A small number of people, in general, make good use of
the extra time afforded by slacking on grades, but we here on yc news probably
aren't talking about the average person.

People I know who got straight A's were very one-minded. The huge number of
clubs that they were in fools no one. Straight A's is almost a guarantee that
the person has expertise in nothing else substantial, from what I've seen.

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neilk
Sleeping in your cubicle? Yeah, you rock, dude.

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dcurtis
The other guy's argument was much, much better.

~~~
webwright
Agreed. I was fairly entrepreneurial in College (at the expense of my grades)
and I'm really glad of it. I wish I'd traveled more and done a bit more on the
intramural front, but am damn glad I didn't invest the time necessary to get
straight As.

~~~
neilc
If you're actually using that extra time to pursue entrepreneurial activities
and you're sure you don't want to attend grad school, then you're probably
right. For the _vast_ majority of students, though, I don't think that is the
case: much of the time saved by not doing well in class is just squandered
doing the typical things college students do. If you're willing to put in the
effort, you should have enough time to get As and still do lots of worthwhile
extracurricular things (I certainly did, in any case). Also, having good
college marks (plus good letters of recommendation from profs) is always a
useful backup in case you ever decide you want to go to grad school in the
future.

~~~
imsteve
For the typical student, I'd say they're far better off having something of a
social life than chasing after straight A's.

~~~
neilc
Well, perhaps for the "typical" student, sure -- but by most metrics I would
say the YC news audience is atypical. If you have a small amount of natural
ability coupled with a work ethic, it is not a matter of getting As _or_
having "something of a social life" -- you can have both.

~~~
imsteve
You brought up the "vast majority of students".

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zaidf
I sucked in almost all my classes for the time I went to uni. A part of me
really started believing that I was simply dumb at all those subjects I was
doing bad in. In last six months since I took a leave, I have enjoyed learning
stuff on my own that I can recall being taught in classes I hated.

Now it is almost like when I _do_ go back to school someday, I will be better
prepared having self-studied what is being taught in class. A whole new reason
to leave school: so you can better prepare yourself for it=)

Do what works for you!

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downer
The point of college is more babysitting, except this time you pay for it (in
grade school, taxes paid for it).

If this gets you in debt, you then have to work it off by being supervised in
yet another babysitting situation/nanny-state position, working for The Man.

Any benefits you manage to get out of it are incidental.

~~~
imsteve
I definitely agree with compensation being incidental for most people.
Everyone just follows the expected route.

