
Haiku Beta is finally here - octosphere
http://medium.com/@andrewgreimann_62789/haiku-beta-the-release-heard-around-the-world-d776cae5f3e7
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giancarlostoro
I'm highly fascinated between Haiku and ReactOS, but I havent had a chance to
use both in a while. I want them to become available. I really appreciate that
Haiku was meant to be a remake of BeOS (iirc) and it does a fantastic job. I
feel like we don't do enough OS research like we used to. We've started to
dive into making new languages like Rust and Go, but I guess the next wave I'm
waiting for is new and interesting Operating Systems.

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sgrove
> we don't do enough OS research like we used to.

I feel projects like MirageOS[0], Qubes OS[1], and unikernels in general are
laying a lot of groundwork for interesting new developments in operating
systems. And as a bonus, there's a lot more automated work on security and
safety!

[0] [https://mirage.io](https://mirage.io) (and cool sub projects like running
Mirage on a ESP32 with reprocessing to make a homebrew gameboy-like platform
[0.1])

[0.1] An operating system that can scale down to tiny platforms could be a lot
of fun to homebrew tinkering
[https://twitter.com/cem2ran/status/1034879037758496772](https://twitter.com/cem2ran/status/1034879037758496772)

[1] [https://www.qubes-os.org](https://www.qubes-os.org)

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WrtCdEvrydy
I wonder if I should start contributing to qubes-os. I'd really like to add
something to isolate non-gui projects in docker instead of VMs.

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zamadatix
If you're interested in contributing I'd look into it a little closer as I
don't think containers align with the security model of Qubes. They'd rather
support spinning up single container VMs which run separate Docker
instances... probably not even in a Docker swarm due to the security channels
that opens.

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handelaar
That's the _fifth_ time I've downloaded a USB live disk image, written it to a
USB key, booted, and had it panic out with "no bootable partition" in the
first four seconds.

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waddlesplash
Did you report any of these panics? If you didn't, why do you expect that it
will be different? We can't fix bugs we don't know about.

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handelaar
Not about to duplicate a complaint that has dozens of pre-reported instances,
none with an answer, no.

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waddlesplash
Each of those dozen or so has different causes. So until you file a report
with a syslog attached, it's impossible to say whether or not yours is a new
one or a duplicate.

But if it is a duplicate, and you already know about the existing reports, why
are you frustrated that you've tried again and nothing has happened? We are
pretty diligent about managing the bug tracker and closing tickets when
they're fixed, so if the ticket is still open, it's probably not fixed.

Likely if you are booting from USB, the problem is your USB3 controller. Try
booting from a USB2 port, or booting from another medium.

~~~
jimbo1qaz
Is it worth reporting a panic over usb3, or is it a duplicate of the others?

What about unusable display flickering, lag, and corrupted framebuffers when
switching resolution?

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waddlesplash
> Is it worth reporting a panic over usb3, or is it a duplicate of the others?

More than likely it is a duplicate of an already-existing one. Check the list
here: [https://dev.haiku-
os.org/query?status=!closed&component=Driv...](https://dev.haiku-
os.org/query?status=!closed&component=Drivers%2FUSB%2FXHCI) \-- but if you
don't see it in there, then please do file a new ticket.

Display flickering/lag/etc. sounds like the intel_extreme driver being broken;
there is a ticket about this also. You can avoid that for the time being by
blacklisting the driver or forcing "fail-safe graphics" (VESA).

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rcarmo
I used BeOS for a little while, so I keep track of Haiku every quarter or so.
It’s missing two things for me to use it again, assuming the wireless drivers
are done now: Power management (including suspend/resume) so I can set it up
on an old netbook (for which it would likely be perfect) and an ARM port for
the Raspberry Pi (which are the only “desktop” machines I have available).

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idiot900
Really impressed with this project and that it is still going.

What do people use Haiku OS for in the real world (i.e. something more
specific than "personal computing")? Or is it just a toy?

~~~
Q6T46nT668w6i3m
I like Haiku. In my experience, it has most responsive window manager for any
operating system that runs on 90s-00s hardware. I think it has a lot of
potential, but presently, I’d describe it as an alternative to something like
Chrome OS. I wish the web browser situation was comparable to Linux, macOS,
and Windows.

I should admit that I have an academic interest in operating systems and
Haiku, for a variety of reasons, is exciting (e.g. it’s a functional open
source operating system that isn’t strictly POSIX).

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waddlesplash
Except... Haiku is POSIX? The POSIX compatibility isn't just some
compatibility layer, it goes all the way into the kernel. We use the fork-
based process model, POSIX filemodes, etc.

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Q6T46nT668w6i3m
Yep. Totally fair. I edited my comment to say “strictly POSIX.” Is that a fair
characterization?

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waddlesplash
What does "strictly POSIX" mean, and how does Haiku not meet it?

If there are POSIX APIs we don't implement, it's simply because we haven't
gotten around to implementing it / nothing needed it so we didn't bother, not
because we are explicitly avoiding said APIs.

~~~
Q6T46nT668w6i3m
Ah, I wasn’t aware. Thanks for the correction! :)

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Koshkin
System requirements have doubled over time (e.g. the minimum RAM amount went
from 128 to 256 megabytes). What gives?

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waddlesplash
packagefs aggressively caches decompressed data and builds a bunch of indexes
in RAM, and that's where the larger requirement comes from. It's not very well
optimized for memory, though, probably someone dedicated enough could bring
the requirement back down to 128MB.

~~~
Koshkin
While optimization is indeed the hallmark of Haiku, the above difference does
not matter much these days, of course. What could be a big deal, though, is
the (missing) support for popular platforms with somewhat limited resources,
such as the Raspberry Pi. Would not it be nice to have a smart TV or a monitor
with Haiku built in?

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waddlesplash
It would indeed. Various contributors have been working on the ARM port for
almost a decade now, and it's just stalled due to a lack of developer time for
the most part.

IIRC, the current status of the ARM port is that the kernel is "mostly done",
and at least one of the SDHCI or USB bus driver need to be ported (or written,
in the case of the rpi) so that the boot can continue past the kernel.

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75dvtwin
does Haku have one of the popular web browsers ported to it (eg firefox or a
webkit-based one)?

I searched but could not see it.

A desktop-oriented OS, should have, I assume, a browser that can work with the
majority of the high-traffic commerce websites (eg ebay, amazon, etc).

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Klonoar
A search for "Haiku Webkit" brings up...

[https://github.com/haiku/webkit](https://github.com/haiku/webkit)

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waddlesplash
Yes, this is the engine behind Haiku's built-in WebPositive.

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75dvtwin
this is fantastic. thank you

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TomMasz
I run Haiku in a VM. Can I upgrade it from within Haiku or do I have to nuke
what I have and start over? I haven't done a lot of customization but enough
to make it a pain to do over.

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waddlesplash
If you are on the beta release or a recent nightly image, you can just run
SoftwareUpdater and it will upgrade to the most recent build on either branch.

If you are on an older (i.e. pre-2017) nightly, you can still upgrade
automatically, but you'll have to manually change package repositories to do
so. If you are on an older release (alpha4, etc.) then you can't upgrade at
all, you'll have to reinstall.

Going forward, it will be possible to upgrade from beta1 directly into beta2,
or whatever the next release is.

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sfilargi
The font rendering looks awfully similar to that of Xorg. Does it use the
library/code/fonts?

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abrowne
I believe the default font is Noto Sans
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noto_fonts](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noto_fonts)

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gcb0
This release doc looks like it was written by a cheap tech magazine in the
early nineties... which i think is fitting, but oh well.

E.g. I do not care much if I can mount/umount drivers with a right click, but
i do care about filesystem supports etc.

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agildehaus
Release doc? This is some random person's blog.

