
H1-B Administrators Are Challenging an Unusually Large Number of Applications - JJLongusa
http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdotYourRightsOnline/~3/BBKiVzJMtrw/h1-b-administrators-are-challenging-an-unusually-large-number-of-applications
======
caseysoftware
Isn't the H1-B program ripe with abuse? I've read dozens if not hundreds of
comments here and reports from all over where teams were laid off in favor of
H1-B counterparts.

If that's really the case, challenging the applications is the first deterrent
to this sort of behavior. I doubt anything will eliminate 100% of the abuse
but if we can cut it significantly, I'd call that a win.

~~~
wheelerwj
ive heard of this rumor but ive never actually seen it in action. having hired
h1bs before, i’m skeptical that anyone but a massive corporation could do
something like this.

the expenses, rules, process would prohibit most teams from accomplishing and
maintaining this. and a corporation large enough to pull it off likely
wouldn’t derive enough benefit to actually make it worth it given the risk of
exposure from either internal or external whistle blowers.

i have no doubt there’s fraud in the immigration system, (america is pretty
cool after all), i feel like the fraud problem takes shape in different forms
than, “mass layoffs in favor of h1b labor.” honestly, i’m more worried about
he use of

~~~
chrisbennet
It’s not a “rumor”. Disney layed off over 100 IT staff and had them train
their Indian replacements [1]. Southern California Edison layed off 400 and
had them train their Indian replacements. [2]

[1] [https://www.computerworld.com/article/2915904/it-
outsourcing...](https://www.computerworld.com/article/2915904/it-
outsourcing/fury-rises-at-disney-over-use-of-foreign-workers.html)

[2] [https://www.computerworld.com/article/2879083/it-
outsourcing...](https://www.computerworld.com/article/2879083/it-
outsourcing/southern-california-edison-it-workers-beyond-furious-
over-h-1b-replacements.html)

~~~
zeusk
The jobs aren't getting transferred to H1Bs, they're getting contracted out to
TCS and Infosys who are known for abusing the program by "lending" out their
employees as contractors.

They're akin to the predatory hiring agencies that provide workers to Amazon's
warehouses. Good for Amazon's bottom line and the agency, not so much for the
employees or the community.

imho, increasing base salary requirement and mandating that employees either
work on-site only or are free to jump ship to any company (visa is not
associated with the employer) would fix majority of the issues.

~~~
humanrebar
Isn't this a side effect of adding more regulations onto full-time workers?
Seems like if the overhead for a full time employee keeps going up and the
regulations keep getting more strict, we'll see more that risk and cost
outsourced more and more to companies that specialize in circumventing things
and keeping the extra expenses as low as possible.

The intent behind these regulations, whether healthcare or immigration
control, is really beside the point. I'm wondering if these things are really
enforceable in the long run.

On top of everything else, as has already been mentioned, the rules seem to
provide competitive advantages to large companies (or at least those willing
to outsource to them) over small ones. This probably decreases the level of
innovation, dynamism, and entrepreneurship in the economy.

------
qmachu
Young, European, High-skilled worker here, who've been working on core
Kubernetes products for three years. Got several job offers for key infra
positions in various companies @ 200-250k+. Trump administration came in,
decided to RFE+NOIR my H-1B with a bullshit reason, had to go back to my
country, which is not my really home anymore whatsoever (wife/friends here).
So yeah, that just happened. It's not only about abuses and 'Indians'.

~~~
toocool
Heart breaking story, really (from a heavy Kubernetes user btw).

Would you mind giving more details about what happened exactly? Why did you
have to go back? What was the reason why they didn't renew your visa (I'm
assuming it's a renewal problem since you mentioned 3 years)? And is there
something that is being done by your company or yourself to get your US life
back, or you just "gave up"?

I mean why the hell would a person with a 250k+ offer be kicked out, assuming
you didn't commit any crime? Isn't the offer itself a proof that you're
desperately wanted here and it should invalidate any RFE?

~~~
qmachu
Sure! It is not about renewal, it hit at a different time.

TD;LR (if I remember the details correctly among all the overall bs):

\- Changed work location,

\- Company notified immigration and joined a check to the amendment,

\- Immigration returned the notice because they claimed they did not need such
check,

\- Company re-submitted the amendment right after, and proved by the way
government indeed required a check at the time of submission but might have
changed conditions,

\- Immigration submitted both a RFE and a NOIR within two days intervals
(pretty unfair already imho) claiming H1B petition was violated because
government figured (tax filing and flight records) I moved and company failed
to tell immigration in due time,

\- Company argued that they did indeed notify immigration promptly but that
they discarded the initial amendment due to the check,

\- Immigration decided to ignore completely and revoke H-1B regardless.

Documented personal achievements and publicized projects should have been way
enough to convince any legit immigration officer that my contribution to the
country was strictly positive. My personal thoughts? They only care about
sending these filthy foreigners back to where they come from (as opposed to
'home'), and they take any covert opportunities to do so.

Company did fill a new petition, but attorneys highly doubt that I am still
counted towards the cap. We will have an answer in a few days. Otherwise, we
would have to wait a year for the next lottery, at best.

Truly sad and rather stressful event for my wife and I anyways. And she is
currently 'stuck' in her PhD (few years to go). Also, because it's been a few
years I have not been to the country where I hold nationality, I am treated as
a non-resident expat and several rights (such as health insurance, bringing my
foreigner wife on a VISA, etc), at least for now. To regain access to these, I
would need to stay here for a while, rent a place and find a job.

And finally, the cherry on the 'deportation' cake: company did not tell me
about any of these (back and forth took a few months..) until I found out
myself just two weeks before immigration took final decision of kicking me
out. Might have been a blessing in disguise though.

~~~
toocool
Thanks for your detailed explanation. It’s so horrible. I wonder how long it
will take for the US system to realize what a big mistake mistreating highly
trained stem workers is.

Best of luck.

------
projectramo
Finally, a nice uncontroversial subject amenable to logic and data.

You either believe:

1\. That a person is good for the country because they work, earn, spend and
contribute to productivity.

2\. They are taking a job that would have otherwise gone to an American, and
are transferring money from laborers to the corporation.

It seems to be a matter for economic theory. What do studies show? Does a
worker produce as many high paying jobs as they displace?

It seems odd that we aren't pulling out references, debating over statistics
and methodology and so on. There is an actual answer to the question: does
immigration add to productivity or reduce consumption. (Both you say? Great,
show me a study!)

~~~
dragonwriter
> It seems to be a matter for economic theory

No, it's mostly a matter of disagreement on fundamental values, not about
whether the factual effects of the policy are in line with or opposed to an
agreed set of values.

~~~
projectramo
That’s just false. That would be true only if the “factual effects” were
agreed upon.

Let me give you an example: Pro immigration advocates claim immigration will
increase US jobs. So do anti immigration activists.

~~~
dragonwriter
> That would be true only if the “factual effects” were agreed upon.

No, he fact that there is a conflict of values which includes a fundamental
disagreement on which facts are relevant and how the same facts would weigh in
desirability is true independent of whether there is agreement on the facts of
the economic effects of immigration (there isn't, but the fact remains that
the dispute on policy is _largely not about facts_ , but goals.)

------
novium
Article linked from the post is on Bloomberg
[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-06/trump-
s-h...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-06/trump-
s-h-1b-reform-is-to-make-life-hell-for-immigrants-and-companies)

~~~
uiri
Can we have the slashdot link replaced with this? The guidelines say to submit
the original source. There's no paywall on Bloomberg.

~~~
vmarsy
That bloomberg article was already shared and heavily discussed actually:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15646456](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15646456)

------
gervase
Duplicate of
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15646456](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15646456)

Lots of discussion over there.

------
chrisper
Slashdot comment section seems to be on the same level as newssite comment
sections.

------
nonamechicken
Why is that everybody talks about H1B abuse when it involves bringing Indians
from India by companies like Infosys, TCS etc, but nobody mentions about how
students from India come to study in US, join fake consultancies and get fake
experiences and resumes? These students are more eager to get a visa sponsor
and they will be willing to settle for a lower salary. I have seen so many
such cases. If they loose a job, there are consultancies who will keep them in
payroll in exchange for money while they look for another job (otherwise you
have to leave US immediately). And some of the companies I know actually
prefer hiring those than bringing people from India because they are already
in US and can work for 1-2 years in OPT while the company can take its time to
file h1b as opposed to wait hoping to get the lottery.

[http://www.firstpost.com/world/18-more-andhra-students-
sent-...](http://www.firstpost.com/world/18-more-andhra-students-sent-back-to-
hyderabad-from-new-york-airport-2568678.html)

[http://www.hindustantimes.com/education/25-indian-
students-a...](http://www.hindustantimes.com/education/25-indian-students-
asked-to-leave-us-varsity-as-they-lack-coding-
skills/story-p6EuIdMSu9McwNUZc5ZYMJ.html)

[https://splinternews.com/hundreds-of-indian-students-are-
bei...](https://splinternews.com/hundreds-of-indian-students-are-being-denied-
entry-to-t-1793854926)

[https://www.murthy.com/2017/08/03/h1b-workers-denied-
entry-b...](https://www.murthy.com/2017/08/03/h1b-workers-denied-entry-based-
on-perceived-inconsistencies-in-resumes/)

~~~
t1o5
There are also cases of applying "future green cards". That is, applying for
green cards when the beneficiary is residing in India, or working with another
employer in the US.

These kind of body shops which are setup solely for applying future greencards
are prevalent in New Jersey. They have their back offices in Hyderabad India.

------
revelation
Nobody needs heavy-handed censorship or directly intervene or override
anything. A bureaucracy not run entirely by a computer is bound to be a
failure because as long as there is some dude at the top with clearly
expressed opinions those will find their way into decisions immediately.

~~~
sidlls
What makes you think a computer run system won't be subject to biases (in
particular of the implementors)?

~~~
revelation
Bureaucracy isn't the promise of a system free of biases. The promise is that
of a pure function: \forall a,b: a = b -> f(a) = f(b)

What's the point? The point is that there is a clear, rational audit trail for
"why was this decision taken" with a computer system. You can challenge that.
You can't challenge an overpaid gov admin whose primary motivating factor in
making decisions is pleasing his superiors, no matter how removed.

~~~
brianjoseff
Highly recommend you check out the book "Weapons of Math Destruction" by Cathy
O'Neil

Very accessible set of case studies where algorithmic management of
traditionally human-run bureaucratic processes is biased and destructive.

