
Slave markets found on Instagram and other apps - anigbrowl
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50228549
======
jacquesm
I've once spotted a (Latin American) slave trader on a image sharing platform
during a technical due diligence. They were pretty shameless about it too,
uploading the photos of the girls from their own IP. All the easier for the
authorities to go after them.

Please take careful note: If you do not do proper risk analysis of your
platform you _WILL_ be used to perpetrate crime and if you find that you did
not do what you could have done to stop it you may end up being an accessory
to that crime. More so if you ignore warnings or flags by other users of the
platform. This goes for anything that allows the uploading and further
distribution of user generated content (especially 1-1) and for anything that
deals with money.

Your nifty platform or weekend project could easily become the vehicle for
someone else's crimes.

~~~
hanoz
> Your nifty platform or weekend project could easily become the vehicle for
> someone else's crimes.

We might as well all pack up and go home then. God forbid some group
coordinates an atrocity using the comments section of our blog, for want of
proper risk analysis.

Best leave it all to the oligarchs. They know what they're doing. They'll look
after us.

~~~
atoav
If _you_ see packing up and leaving it to the oligarchs as the only workable
solution to adress the valid point the parent raised, this says more about you
than the argument at hand.

The thing with weekend projects is: they tend to lie around unused and
unchecked. If you are aware of this, people can mitigate it by adding propper
monitoring etc.

~~~
lazyjones
> _If you are aware of this, people can mitigate it by adding propper
> monitoring etc._

And what is an acceptable, reasonable solution? Even FB with their near-
infinite resources gets in trouble all the time for illegal content and they
still spread all kinds of it. Is the only possible solution to be a big
corporation?

~~~
pstuart
FB doesn't care about illegal content. They may say they do, but they don't as
long as they're making money -- that is all they care about.

------
whack
I know the article focuses a lot on Instagram/Android/iOS, but the underlying
story is utterly ridiculous. This isn't a small group of criminal gangs who
are doing this. It's the middle class and upper class of a first world nation,
who are literally recreating slavery in the 21st century.

I don't understand how this isn't being cracked down in the harshest manner -
no normal person would risk doing it if they faced 10-20 years imprisonment
for human trafficking. Simply pass a law that all domestic workers have to
report to a police station for 5 minutes every Sunday, alone, during which
time they will be asked if they are being held against their will. This would
likely eliminate the vast majority of human trafficking currently happening
over there. It blows my mind that the government is doing so little about
something so abhorrent.

~~~
cstejerean
“Under what is known as the Kafala system, a domestic worker cannot change or
quit her job, nor leave the country without her sponsor's permission.”

That doesn’t sound like the a law that is intended to prevent slavery like
conditions for domestic workers. And very much encourage abuse in general and
confiscating passports specifically (can’t leave the country without the
sponsor’s permission sounds like a pretty implied permission to take someone’s
passport).

~~~
apta
It's not dissimilar from a sponsorship system in the US, where you need your
employer to sponsor you so that you work and reside in the country. It is
against the law to take someone's passport.

~~~
nine_k
It's opposite: the employer must sponsor you for you to stay in the country,
else you have to go back home.

Unlike this where the worker cannot go back home.

~~~
apta
As I pointed out, it's against the law to hold their passport and to prevent
them from returning or traveling.

------
aristophenes
> "What they are doing is promoting an online slave market," said Urmila
> Bhoola, the UN special rapporteur on contemporary forms of slavery. > "If
> Google, Apple, Facebook or any other companies are hosting apps like these,
> they have to be held accountable."

Of course we don't want social media enabling that. But the bad guys are the
people who are keeping others as slaves, and the law enforcement that turn a
blind eye. The solution isn't to take down the posts, but to alert law
enforcement.

These governments should be urged to find and arrest the people who are doing
this, otherwise it won't stop even if blocked. A single dev could mock up a
replacement, "like craigslist, but for slaves".

~~~
antocv
Why can these apps block "breaking copyright" and discussions about piratebay,
but cant stop slave trade?

Why does the justice system hand out huge fines and prison sentances, for
copyright infrigiment, but not for slavery?

Why does the US and its lobby organizations, threaten another democratic state
with "consequences" (see piratebay raid) for copyright infrigiment. Yet no one
bats an eye at this.

But seemingly, you educated person of HN, cant think of a method or reason for
trying to stop slavery. Oh yeah.

~~~
aristophenes
I don't know why you are saying this, because all I did was say we should stop
slavery. Whether or not we protect copyright or whatever, we definitely should
stop slavery. Taking down a post isn't stopping slavery, it's insulating elite
Westerners like myself from being aware that slavery is actually happening.

Up until today I was aware of piratebay, copyright issues, etc because it has
impacted my life. I was unaware that in some places it was still accepted
practice to not only enslave people but to publicly post about it. I imagine a
lot of the people who work at the social media companies are similar to myself
in that respect.

~~~
SllX
Last I heard, today’s global slave trade makes the Transatlantic Slave Trade
at its peak look like a drop in the bucket. I don’t know if that comparison is
accurate, but slavery never died in the world, it merely became illegal.

[https://sfpublicpress.org/news/2012-02/human-trafficking-
is-...](https://sfpublicpress.org/news/2012-02/human-trafficking-is-a-growing-
global-scourge)

------
hirundo
This is like blaming a hammer manufacturer for enabling hammer murders. It
isn't their intention to make a murder tool, it isn't its primary use, and
they don't market it for that purpose. They make a tool, and although that
tool will certainly be abused, the benefits outweigh the costs. Same goes for
these new communication tools.

~~~
ceejayoz
When I attended F8, Facebook gave a presentation on how sophisticated their
drug post detection had gotten. Things like being able to differentiate
between a photo of broccoli tempura and weed (that slide can be seen here:
[https://www.cnet.com/news/marijuana-or-broccoli-facebook-
ill...](https://www.cnet.com/news/marijuana-or-broccoli-facebook-illustrates-
ais-challenges-with-this-example/)), "candy" being sold at unusual prices,
factoring in how networks of people interact with the posts, etc. were
highlighted that appeared highly sophisticated, to the point where some
examples took hints for the humans in the room to figure out the right answer.

Meanwhile, their only action in this article is apparently banning a hashtag.
I'm dubious that that's the best they can do.

~~~
natechols
I think this is the (American) white privilege bubble at work, in a different
way than usual. Drug use is pervasive in American society, everyone knows this
and it's an obvious thing for Facebook to police. Same with violence, racist
abuse, and pornographic images. Buying and selling domestic workers, on the
other hand, is so far removed from our experience that it's not something that
I would have even thought to work on. I know human trafficking happens, in the
abstract sense that I read about it in The Economist or The Atlantic
magazines, but the idea that people would take advantage of social media
platforms to do it still blows my mind.

~~~
modwest
What blows my mind about what you're describing is how ill-equipped society
was for Facebook, and how laughable it is that Mark Zuckerberg is in charge of
reconciling Facebook and society, for the very reasons you're talking about.

When I think about the global scale and social/political/economic scope
required to responsibly run Facebook, and compare that to the skill set of
Mark Zuckerberg it's just, like, insane that he's in charge of it. I'm sure
Mark Zuckerberg is truly brilliant and capable of becoming a great
international leader. No doubt. I just don't think it should be, like, his
first job. Lol. It's truly absurd.

~~~
segmondy
Can you tell us who you know that will be best in charge to run it. Give us 3
names.

~~~
modwest
Can you just make your point please

~~~
snagglegaggle
That is his point. Who is qualified? It'd probably have to be many people, but
then who are they accountable to? Is it really better to have Facebook be
government run? I highly doubt it.

~~~
modwest
I don't know the answer and won't bore you by trying to make one up on the
fly. I'll just say this is a novel challenge to human society and requires a
novel approach to corporate governance & accountability. What we're doing now
isn't working and the stakes are as high as they can be.

We have the responsibility to insist on better from our institutions.

------
mullingitover
The bigger problem is that it's not a crime to take someone's passport away
and prevent them from leaving the country whenever they wish to. None of this
would be possible if an employee could quit and go home at any time.

~~~
hackernewl
If you are the citizen of a first world country, you can just go to your
embassy without any id and they will sort it out.

These workers origin countries also share the blame, they refuse to help them.
In many cases they turn a blind eye to this slavery since these enslaved
workers send currency to their origin country.

~~~
lmz
Without any ID why would they let you in to the embassy?

~~~
hackernewl
You say you are their citizen and you obviously speak the language. I know
people who did this.

The embassy will then confirm your identity (there are various ways).

------
ethanpil
This is crazy. From the article I found the hashtag.

Just Google "خادمات للتنازل" and you will find these ads on Twitter, Pintrest
and lots of dedicated sites. :(

------
AzzieElbab
Does anyone honestly think that removing fb out of the equation would result
in any kind of improvement? Or are people simply disgusted because this is
happening on the service they also happen to be users of?

~~~
Nextgrid
It’s not like this is only happening in private - Shitbook is outright giving
them a storefront for selling slaves.

Now I agree that the problem can’t be 100% eliminated as at least some of it
happens behind closed doors, but it would sure reduce the scale of this
business if Shitbook & co weren’t around to provide a free platform for
trading slaves in the open.

They should be prosecuted for complicity and not be allowed to hide behind the
excuse of the “algorithm”. If your algorithm isn’t good enough to filter out
this behaviour then go back to the drawing board and find a better solution.
Human moderation works pretty well on forums. Oh it doesn’t scale? Well that’s
a shame but it’s not a right to be profitable - if you can’t figure out a
sustainable business model then don’t be in business. It’s like starting a
very cheap rental car business and stealing cars for your inventory because
you can’t actually afford to buy them...

~~~
zepto
I suspect more people would read your comment and you would have fewer
downvotes if you didn’t use the term ‘shitbook’.

------
modwest
Unbelievable horrors so many of our fellow humans are trapped in.

~~~
REDDitMen
I have to wonder how many...so many types of horrors too. Don't forget
primates...

------
gcbw3
Eerily similar to H-1b with the visaholder (i.e. consulting firm) arrangement
we see so often in the valley.

------
_wqwa
It's terrible thing which should be addressed.

But it seems to me that accusing Apple/FB/Instagram that those platforms were
used for it is exactly the same as accusing Toyota/Nissan/Ford that vehicles
they made were used for transporting slaves.

~~~
monkeydreams
The difference is that, if Toyota tracked your car usage after purchase and
possessed the ability to match patterns of behaviour with crimes (wow, just
after this bank was robbed that car zoomed northwards at high speed), they too
would be held accountable.

Facebook/Apple/Instagram capture insane amounts of data from their users in
exchange for various services. Those services are being used for human
trafficking. It behooves these companies to regulate these practices.

~~~
matheusmoreira
Completely agree. It should be safer to _not_ know everything. Collecting
personal information should be a massive liability. If they insist on
collecting huge amounts of data they shouldn't be able to claim they didn't
know anything when authorities find that crimes were being committed. They had
the data, failed to analyze it and their negligence enabled the crimes to
occur. They are as much at fault as the criminals themselves.

That ought to end the pervasive monitoring of users for marketing purposes.

------
ReptileMan
So this is like the business method patent. It is new - it uses a computer! -
it is new is uses an app/hashtag!

The system in the gulf has been there for decades. If you weren't outraged
five years ago - no reason to be now. If you were - keep the fire burning and
try to do something.

As long as the system for abuse is in place, people will communicate with
smoke signals if needed to facilitate the involuntarily employment change.

------
jbob2000
This is why we've turned Facebook and Twitter into political machines. You are
blaming the social media companies for enabling slavery. Slavery existed long
before the internet, removing it from the internet just means it goes back to
working the old fashioned way.

~~~
joshmarlow
> ..removing it from the internet just means it goes back to working the old
> fashioned way.

So, less efficiently?

That's probably a net benefit. Even when you can't eliminate a problem, making
it less frequent is a win.

~~~
ReptileMan
I am not sure that instragram increases efficiency. More like adds a shine of
glamour.

A phpbb board will do just fine and as efficient.

