
Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker - Whitespace
http://watchesbysjx.com/2017/05/portrait-masahiro-kikuno-japanese-watchmaker.html
======
robert_tweed
I see he has a copy of "Watchmaking" by George Daniels. That is the "Knuth" of
watchmaking.

Here in Britain, we have Roger W Smith, the only watchmaker in the world who
makes _everything_ by hand. He was the principal disciple of George Daniels, a
truly legendary watchmaker, who sadly died a few years ago.

Daniels famously taught himself watchmaking by taking apart old clocks,
putting them back together and repairing them when he was young. If he had
been born in the digital age, he'd have been a hacker comparable to Woz.

He didn't just make his own watches, he also made all the specialised tools
needed. These days he is perhaps best known for the Daniels Co-Axial
Escapement found in some Omega watches, which for many years was believed to
be impossible to make.

If you google Roger Smith, he has lots of interesting videos on Youtube
showing various parts of the watchmaking process from raw materials.

There are a few interviews with George Daniels too. Here's one talking about
his first complete, from scratch watch:

[https://youtube.com/watch?v=CSeTi93f2eU](https://youtube.com/watch?v=CSeTi93f2eU)

~~~
icantdrive55
If anyone is really interested in Watchmaking, I wouldn't start out with G.
Daniel's book. It's really about making a watch from raw materials.

I would start with books by Fried. If you feel comfortable with 90% of
Practical Watch Repair in a year, or two; go for Daniel's book. I guarantee
most will not get through Practical Watch Repair, but might come back to the
hobby/profession later in life. When time is more cherished?

George Daniels was a brilliant Watchmaker. The book is o.k. There are parts of
the book where it seemed rushed. George expects the reader to have a working
knowledge of basic watch repair, and know exactly how a mechanical watch
function. There's not much on repair, cleaning, or oiling.

I really liked Kikuno's workshop. That is years worth for tooling too. It's
not cheap stuff either. My point is don't go out and spend a fortune on
tooling until you can clean, oil, and time a 17 jeweled wristwatch with under
$500 worth of tools.

It's a really a good feeling resurrecting an older watch, and knowing how to
fix it if it breaks down, or runs slow.

That said, I'll get political. Many of the major watch houses will not sell
you parts for your watch. You buy a $10 grand Rolex, and can't buy a new
crown. They claim it's for quality assurance, but it's a money grab. That's
it. The govenemment knows it violates The Sherman Anti-trust Act, but they
have bigger fish to fry--I guess? They said it was a rich man's problem? This
said while they wearing Rolexes(couldn't be gifts?), with Lobbyists scurrying
around in the chambers.

If you do get good at watch repair, you will look at watches, maybe the world,
differently?

Since I got into watch repair, I stopped looking at the outside of many
mechanical things. It just happened? Maybe because I used to be an auto
mechanic, but I believe it was the watch repair that changed me.

~~~
munificent
All the question marks make me read this entire comment in uptalk (rising
terminals). I can't decide if that's a good thing? I'm Ron Burgundy?

~~~
Lordarminius
> _I can 't decide if that's a good thing?_

It is. I found it a refreshing stylistic quirk

------
mc32
It's great to see people like him and others like messersmiths such as Cut
Brooklyn, swordsmakers, etc. continue the tradition of hand-made precision[1]
products and doing it themselves rather than designing and then farming out
the work to others or automating the process.

It is, though, a kind of double edged sword. On the one hand they continue
centuries-long traditions, on the other hand they get coöpted by hipsterish
connoisseurs who work for companies feverishly contributing to the demise of
traditional craft in the name of efficiency and doing things better.

In addition, many of these products are not unnecessarily anachronistic (like
say making an electronic device with discrete components and hand made pcbs).

Bravo to these people.

[1] By precision I mean they must follow a meticulous process to achieve near-
perfection of result.

~~~
keithpeter
The watchmaker is selling his watches for between $45k and $250k and producing
one a year on average so yes, he'll need rich customers. I suspect that there
may be a different market in Japan though - perhaps older and more traditional
people.

Sooner or later he will need to take on an apprentice - it would be nice if he
can start a school like that.

You mentioned electronics, and the Japanese tradition of craftsmen making the
whole thing brought to mind the slightly eccentric electronics of Susumu
Sakuma. He (was?) making retro audio amplifiers on his kitchen table at one
point.

[http://www10.big.or.jp/~dh/sakuma/index.html](http://www10.big.or.jp/~dh/sakuma/index.html)

~~~
wowtip
That is not that much of an income taking into the skill going into these
watches. Wonder if he has to deal with much repairs and returns?

~~~
keithpeter
I agree that the income is (relatively) modest compared to the training time
and skill level involved. I suspect that the income could grow organically in
the future with apprentices &c.

I'd imagine a 'return' would be a trip to the chap's house and personal
attention until the watch was working properly. My old hand-assembled
clockwork camera (a mass produced item compared to the mechanisms in the OA)
has worked faultlessly for around 15 years. And I bought it second hand then.

~~~
Inconel
To add to your comment, from what I know of the independent watch industry,
it's exceedingly difficult to branch off on your own as a watchmaker and
survive long term. Those apprentices need salaries after all. It seems to take
not just incredible technical and artistic ability, but a knack for business
and entrepreneurship as well. In addition, the independent watchmaking brands
tend to have so much of their prestige wrapped up in their namesake's persona,
rightfully so in my opinion, that it makes it difficult for them to survive
once they are no longer able to lead the company.

Also, I believe that even amongst the highest echelons of independent
watchmakers, few are able to survive on their brand alone and rely heavily on
either restoration work, work for larger more established brands, or a
combination of the two. Even guys like Dufour and Voutilainen, two of the most
respected independents in the watch world, partake in outside work for the big
brands like Patek, VC, and AP.

If anyone is interested this is a post on a fairly recent visit to Beat
Haldimann's workshop[1]. One of my favorite articles on these kinds of visits
is from 2006 and involves a visit to the home/atelier of a former French
kickboxing champion turned watchmaker[2].

[1][http://www.watchprosite.com/independents/a-true-discovery-
my...](http://www.watchprosite.com/independents/a-true-discovery-my-visit-to-
beat-haldimann/16.1127286.8604221/)

[2][http://www.watchprosite.com/richard-mille/alone-with-the-
rm0...](http://www.watchprosite.com/richard-mille/alone-with-the-
rm008-/18.294986.1928928/)

~~~
keithpeter
Looking at link [1]

I wonder if those huge street 'watches' are actually apprentice pieces? The
large scale of the movement making them easier to make and, I presume, less
susceptible to small errors in the making of the parts?

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coolswan
This reminds me actually a lot of Jiro Ono (famed sushi-maker).

"Once you decide on your occupation, you must immerse yourself in your work.
You have to fall in love with your work. Never complain about your job. You
must dedicate your life to mastering your skill. That's the secret of success
and is the key to being regarded honorably."

~~~
taway_1212
Sounds a lot like he was forcing himself to do the work in order to succeed
and to be "regarded honorably".

~~~
babyrainbow
I think the idea is that the key to being regarded honorably is to be _really_
good at what you claim you do. And a life time is only long enough to master,
i mean, really master, a single thing.

I think it must be a totally alien, or even irritating, idea to a bunch who
expects to paid enormous sum of money because they have done a crash course in
JavaScript spanning a month and claims to be able to build websites that can
"deliver value" to the business..

That is considering they can even grasp the idea of things like "honor", which
itself is a rather unpopular idea because it often gets in the way of making
money....

~~~
FLUX-YOU
>I think it must be a totally alien, or even irritating, idea to a bunch who
expects to paid enormous sum of money because they have done a crash course in
JavaScript spanning a month and claims to be able to build websites that can
"deliver value" to the business..

What's funny is that some of them are actually being paid enormous sums of
money for very little skill investment.

So in light of that, programming is apparently not a field that expects you to
master anything before your salary is maximized.

------
zer00eyz
I love watchmakers, it is such a blend of skills that I don't even know where
to begin with my praise or interest in the field.

I just want to throw out there that Dan Spitz, of Anthrax fame makes watches
as well, and has an interesting story too.

[https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/interview-meet-dan-
spitz-a...](https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/interview-meet-dan-spitz-
anthrax-guitarist-turned-master-watchmaker)

~~~
nvarsj
Wow this is incredibly cool.

I also found that he produces his own benches for watchmakers and other
tinkerers. Looks really great:
[http://danspitz.com/watchmaker_bench/](http://danspitz.com/watchmaker_bench/)

~~~
BatFastard
Those are really wonderful benches.

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monk_e_boy
Well... that's the first I've every heard of seasonal time. That's amazing.

[http://museum.seiko.co.jp/en/knowledge/wadokei/huteijihou/in...](http://museum.seiko.co.jp/en/knowledge/wadokei/huteijihou/index.html)

~~~
pm215
If you like that kind of thing and happen to be visiting Tokyo, the Daimyo
Clock Museum is worth dropping into. It's a little one-room museum with a
couple of dozen old clocks that implement that variable-hours setup, some of
them running.

------
thjan
Since so many knowledgeable people interested in watches are around here ...
What are some affordable, good quality watch brands? Somewhere around 100 to
300 Euro maybe? I like those beautiful, elegant designed watches but 10k EUR
upwards is way out of my league.

~~~
cr0sh
If you want to get into something interesting (from a historical perspective)
- these watches can be found rather inexpensively:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raketa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raketa)

Look for ones with mechanical movements prior to 1990 or so (?); they were one
of the last (or maybe the last) company making mechanical analog movements
(non-quartz) long after every other watch manufacturer switched. Eventually,
they had to switch too, but like 30 years later.

There's a story (pretty sure its true) of the czar buying a failing Ohio (?)
watch maker, lock stock and barrel; literally, they bought the entire company
and employees, and moved the employees to Russia to teach them how to make
mechanical movement watches - and that continued on through the Soviet era.

But with glasnost, etc - that came to an end - and quartz took over.

I recently purchased one of these watches - it was fairly inexpensive (about
$70.00 USD); it was a Lunokhod commemorative watch - with a 24 hour movement,
and an orange face.

In many cases, you can get these watches as "New-Old Stock" \- because non-
quartz movements fell out of fashion, and the old stock just sat unsold. But
now, with collectors learning about these watches, and the want for mechanical
movements, they've come back. But because so many exist, they are still fairly
inexpensive to find and own (even the really old versions of such watches).

~~~
robert_tweed
If you want a very interesting Russian watch from a historic and engineering
perspective, your first port of call should be the Vostok Amphibia.

There's far too much to write about these, but this article covers most of it:

[https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/vostok-
amphibia](https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/vostok-amphibia)

For the in-depth engineering details, be sure to follow the watchuseek forum
link. The interview with the designers is also good, albeit written in Russian
so parts may get lost in translation.

For completeness I'll just mention the Poljot 3133, which is an excellent, low
cost mechanical chronograph. It is the most technically advanced Russian
movement, while the Amphibia is the most advanced case design. Poljot went out
of business a few years ago, but there's still enough stock around that you
can find plenty of new watches with this movement from companies like Volmax.

Vostok are still making new, fully in-house mechanical watches, and they are
just as good or in some cases better than they were in the 90s. Meranom are
their official online retailer. Note that Vostok Europe are a completely
different company that no longer use any Russian parts, although they did use
Vostok movements in their older models.

I personally would avoid older Russian watches unless you are prepared to
spend a lot of time on research, or don't mind buying something that isn't
what you were expecting. The vast majority on the open market are
frankenwatches (mixed-up parts, often botched internal repairs).

------
BatFastard
Permanence - One of the beautiful things about these watches is they will be
treasures for hundreds of years.

I serious doubt anyone will look back at my code in one hundred years and be
amazed by the beauty. Not that it is not beautiful, software just doesn't feel
like it has any lasting permanence.

You can create amazing things with software but does any implementation
actually have permanence?

~~~
simonsarris
Well, does bread?

[https://www.instagram.com/sourdough_nouveau/](https://www.instagram.com/sourdough_nouveau/)

Not everything beautiful need be permanent. Some of it can last just one
morning. (In Tibetan Buddhism, there is also the Sand Mandala that epitomizes
this)

There's a beauty to lasting treasure, but there's a beauty to ephemeral
treasure too, I think. Something crafted with ultimate care to be shared and
consumed immediately.

~~~
BatFastard
There is beauty in transitory experiences too most certainly! The unseen
rainbow has beauty, but as a human I like to think I am more than a blink of a
cosmic eye.

Even though I know I am not....

------
syntaxing
Does anyone know what milling machine he has? It has such a weird collet
holder and spindle.

~~~
blackguardx
Looks to be a clone of a Deckel G1L. I think it is pitched as an engraving
machine that can also so light milling. The pantograph allows it to make
complex parts by tracing a scaled template with a stylus. This is how they
made complex curves before CNC and is probably faster for certain on-off parts
if you include CAD and CAM time.

~~~
syntaxing
That is super awesome. I can't believe I never heard of a pantograph milling
machine before. Thank you for the info!

~~~
blackguardx
If you want to see one in action, I suggest checking out Stefan Gotteswinter's
channel on Youtube
[https://www.youtube.com/user/syyl](https://www.youtube.com/user/syyl)

------
sshanky
I can't discern from the article whether or not he actually makes movements.
It says that "The hairspring, mainspring, jewels, crystal and leather strap
are bought from suppliers, primarily Seiko subsidiaries." However, I imagine
he buys entire movements and concentrates on the case, face, hands, and other
aesthetic elements.

~~~
cr0sh
> However, I imagine he buys entire movements and concentrates on the case,
> face, hands, and other aesthetic elements.

I'm not so certain about that; the article mentions his making a wristwatch
(and pocket watch) version of a traditional Japanese clock which varies the
length of a day by the seasons. Such timepieces (as clocks) fell out after the
Meiji restoration (according to the article) when Japan transitioned to
western style clocks.

Given that, unless Seiko (or some other company) is also making movements for
traditional Japanese timekeeping, I can't imagine your scenario being true,
simply because the market for traditional Japanese timekeeping watches would
have to be pretty damn small, as they are virtually useless for practical use
in the modern world, and only would serve as curiosities and/or art.

Just my opinion based only on the article, though - I could be completely
wrong.

------
sapphire_tomb
Anyone know if there's a mirror somewhere?

Hackernews' "Eye of Sauron" affect seems to have nobbled the site.

~~~
tpeo
Is that really a fitting metaphor, though? Because the Eye of Sauron never
stopped anyone from going into Mordor or from going on with their own
business. It just looked ominious. Whereas HN submissions actually crash the
websites they're pointing to.

I've only seen the movies (and read the wiki too), so I could be wrong.

~~~
rsync
"Is that really a fitting metaphor, though?"

A better metaphor would be "the HN LOIC"[1].

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Orbit_Ion_Cannon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Orbit_Ion_Cannon)

------
soapdog
So, how do one goes to learn watchmaking? I know there are some really
impressive and traditional schools and that apprenticeship still going on but
besides the George Daniels book, is there a friendlier and more approachable
book for hobbyists? Can someone recommend some pointers?

------
Bakary
What a fascinating man.

I'm slowly starting to fantasize about having a job where I can create actual
objects myself and my work has a tangible effect rather than some zero-sum
value shuffling.

------
somecallitblues
Although they're quite kitsch and not something I'd wear, good on him for
taking on something not many people would dare these days.

------
ValleyOfTheMtns
Does he have an Etsy shop?

------
Strategizer
Crazy, cool and complex stuff. Those pieces belong in a museum...or on my
wrist.

Double kudos for the Pentax and the truly amazing 100mm f2.8 macro lens he
uses. I have it and it's fantastic.

