
U.S. does not believe Cuba is behind sonic attacks on American diplomats - Jerry2
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article175493626.html
======
bandrami
I have a "bucket file" of stories I hope get declassified before I die, and
this is definitely in it now.

(I'm the trailing spouse to a US diplomat and know some of the people in Cuba
-- if anything, the media coverage is _underplaying_ how weird this is.)

~~~
kilroy123
Interesting. Are these people permanently damaged or hurt?

~~~
bandrami
(I should clarify: I know some of the State Department staff in Havana; I
don't know any of the injured people.)

My understanding is that nobody is entirely clear whether this is permanent or
not. Some people have recovered quickly and others are still having lingering
effects. Several suffered a concussion, which just doesn't work -- I work for
an audio simulation company (think jets and helicopters) and there's just no
way audible sound or even infrasound can do this.

OTOH, there is a theory that guided infrasound can do serious tissue damage,
which was possibly the cause of Dyatlov Pass[1].

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident)

~~~
Iv
I think the safer bet is that the cause is not sonic and that the sounds
perceived are illusions.

~~~
alexandersingh
In the good old days, we'd have just gotten Mulder and Scully on the
case...Those were simpler times...

------
dfischer
This is one of the most bizarre developments I've witnessed in my life. If
it's an attack, it's an entirely new method as far as I understand. Are there
any credible, highly possible theories on how this is happening or is it 100%
speculation still?

~~~
einrealist
If it is an attack, the question is 'why?'. It does not make sense. There is
not much to gain.

I wouldnt be surprised if this is some sort of self-inflicted infection or
poisoning issue.

~~~
dragonwriter
> If it is an attack, the question is 'why?'.

To sour US-Cuban relations. Russia, Venezuela, China, and some others could
plausibly be interested in doing it for that reason.

~~~
einrealist
Why would you harm your own people for that? That would not be easy to do. And
it is treason. Just for reverting the relationship with the Cubans? There are
other, more effective ways to do that, ways that don't require secrecy and
harming anyone.

Edit: One explanation can be that the Trump administration itself wants to
harm the Cuban relationship regarding embassy business and the health problems
are just faked by a few loyal employees, enough people so the government can
close the embassy. But that would only harm the business of this one
particular embassy. In the political scheme, this does not make any sense.

------
ComputerGuru
I'm decidedly _not_ a conspiracist (being a firm believer in Occam's razor and
all), but this does lend credence to some of the "it was a friendly operation
gone wrong" and "we already know who did it but have our reasons not to say
anything" lines of thought.

~~~
colordrops
What do you think the purpose of Occam's razor is? Sometimes conspiracy _is_
the most simple and consistent explanation.

~~~
eridius
Sometimes, but in most cases it's not.

~~~
colordrops
That's a pretty meaningless statement. In most cases of what? Nuclear
phenomena? Sure, there is probably no conspiracy to manipulate the laws of
physics. But international relations? Are you kidding? Conspiracy is as likely
as any other explanation in that case, and shouldn't be discounted as nutjob
territory.

~~~
eridius
Conspiracy by whom, for what benefit?

~~~
colordrops
Once again, meaningless statement. Depends on the situation. For example, a
situation with conflicts of interest or other incentives for doing shady
things behind the scenes, which is a pretty common scenario in politics and
corporate affairs.

Point is that Occam's razor isn't a blunt instrument that eliminates entire
classes of theories from all phenomena. Each one must be evaluated
individually as to which theories are contextual and consistent. Some call for
evaluating conspiracies, some don't.

~~~
eridius
Some do. But the overwhelming majority of cases don't.

Conspiracy theories are _almost never_ right.

~~~
mythrwy
Sadly often neither are official explanations. Which is probably why we get
"conspiracy theories".

~~~
tambienben
This might be especially true when the source of the official explanation has
skin in the game.

Politics is a hairy business.

------
jayess
I like how the article title is "U.S. does not believe Cuba is behind sonic
attacks on American diplomats"

Yet the article <title> is "Trump to pull diplomats out of Cuba, but think
Havana is behind attacks"

~~~
kingofpandora
> I like how the article title is "U.S. does not believe Cuba is behind sonic
> attacks on American diplomats" > Yet the article <title> is "Trump to pull
> diplomats out of Cuba, but think Havana is behind attacks"

I'm guessing a "does not" is missing from the <title> because the verb "think"
isn't conjugated correctly:

"Trump to pull diplomats out of Cuba, but DOES NOT think Havana is behind
attacks"

~~~
grzm
Or it's just missing an "s"

> _… thinks Havana …_

~~~
kingofpandora
That theory doesn't make sense if you read the article.

~~~
grzm
Granted. I'm just looking at minimal difference.

------
dsfyu404ed
This is basically the conclusion I figured they'd reach. Cuba has too much to
gain from a good economic relationship with us to be making "dick moves" like
this and we have basically nothing to gain from not having a good economic
relationship with them.

------
icanhackit
My guess: your own spies were monitoring your own diplomats, not dissimilar to
what happened to the Senate Intelligence Committee [1], just with injuries
this time. I wonder if the CIA disagreed or were concerned with what seemed
like a Pope Francis/Obama led initiative to mend relations with Cuba, given
the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion, and wanted to see how things were progressing
at the diplomatic level.

Would explain why the US has remained quiet and why relations with Cuba
haven't soured, at least openly. In a country lacking internet infrastructure,
a passive surveillance method makes sense - even if it comes with risks.

[1] [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/31/cia-admits-
spy...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/31/cia-admits-spying-
senate-staffers)

------
kingnothing
Relevant Snopes article: [http://www.snopes.com/do-sonic-weapons-explain-the-
health-di...](http://www.snopes.com/do-sonic-weapons-explain-the-health-
diplomats-cuba/)

~~~
deathhand
>trust by verify

Snopes has been around as long as I have been on the internet. Their DNS whois
is protected. Who are they?

The links/sources in this article don't really prove that Sonic weapons are
ineffective. They go back to non-weapons research.(the US government has
created such weapons have been proven effective[1])

I want to trust but I cannot verify that their claims are true(that these
claims are false)

[1] [https://gizmodo.com/what-is-the-lrad-sound-
cannon-5860592](https://gizmodo.com/what-is-the-lrad-sound-cannon-5860592)

~~~
EvanAnderson
WIRED published an article about Snopes (mainly focusing on conflict between
the founders) just a few days ago: [https://www.wired.com/story/snopes-and-
the-search-for-facts-...](https://www.wired.com/story/snopes-and-the-search-
for-facts-in-a-post-fact-world/)

~~~
deathhand
Thank you! I never knew.

------
drpgq
Some Canadian diplomats have been affected too, which makes it even weirder.
Surprised the article didn't mention it.

------
wavefunction
The assumption I've seen is that this was some sort of eaves-dropping attempt
gone awry but why would it occur during the target's sleep when eavesdropping
is likely useless unless all the targets talk in their sleep about state
secrets?

What if the intent was a false-flag attack to disrupt relations between Cuba
and the US?

~~~
krapp
>What if the intent was a false-flag attack to disrupt relations between Cuba
and the US?

Possible, but why make it so _weird?_ Everyone is talking about the "sonic
attacks" and no one is talking about damage to US/Cuban relations.

~~~
wavefunction
>no one is talking about damage to US/Cuban relations.

You say this but the US authorities have made a specific point of stating they
don't believe it to be the fault of Cuba or its government.

For the average American (which is neither you nor I whatever our
nationalities) they hear "Americans attacked in Cuba."

------
QAPereo
Let the mutual face-saving begin!... in other words. I’m still siding with
microwaves in any case.

------
jug
Interesting. Seems to indirectly confirm the government somewhere believes the
attacks happened / are happening. They have refrained to comment that, as far
as I know.

------
sulizilxia
I wish they'd stop referring to them as sonic attacks--I think the perception
of sonic disturbance is a side effect of something else.

------
ithinkinstereo
Is uBeam beta testing their prototype in Cuba?

------
xupybd
I wonder if there are any already deaf diplomats that would be willing to
serve there. That said if they're willing to harm people this way it probably
wouldn't be much of a step for them to find other ways to harm US diplomats.

~~~
ridgeguy
It may be that hearing impairment is only one, and/or the first noticeable,
effect of whatever is happening in Cuba.

In analogy to the way damage due to CTE can manifest long after the injury,
I'd be concerned about problems that might take longer to surface. The whole
thing is quite weird.

(edit to add: It's not clear that ability to hear is a necessary condition for
the observed damage. It might simply be a consequence, not a prerequisite for
damage.)

------
anonymfus
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier_in_Space](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier_in_Space)

------
squarefoot
And the fact that sound was (is?) used to torture prisoners in the Guantanamo
complex in Cuba makes this somewhat ironic.

------
tbabb
What is the nature of these "attacks"? The symptoms? The circumstances? This
article gives very little context.

------
jamisteven
Prolly some old relic of a spy device thats effected by new cell tech. Hmmm

------
SubiculumCode
Russian operatives will be my guess. Just for the record.

------
basicplus2
Clearly not sonic, most likely microwave

------
aaron695
It's because they are witches!

As long as we find a albino and cut them up and eat them all good.

Or we could all learn the term 'mass hysteria' and move along..... perhaps
throw in 'moral panic' to the google search while we are there, it wouldn't
hurt.

------
timthelion
Has anyone considered that this attack could have been done by the large and
extreme group of anti-comunist Cubans in order to damage closer relationships
between communist Cuba and the US?

Cuban exiles have attacked Cuba before:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion)

~~~
timthelion
I think that the down-votes with no actual counterarguments kind of go to show
that I might be right.

~~~
Fnoord
No, it shows that you don't provide any proof for your "theory" (there is not
much theory to begin with), and therefore its one of the many conspiracy
theories floating around. Occam's razor, please.

~~~
timthelion
Well, there are plenty of people here guessing at who might have done it. I
cannot provide any proof. I didn't say that I think they did it. I was just
pointing out that the current list of parties to consider: The Chinese, the
Russians, the CIA, is incomplete without including anti-communist Cuban ex-
patriots. I don't need to provide proof in order to consider a possibility.

~~~
Fnoord
Agreed, it is an option to explore.

What I disagree with is the fact you're being downvoted means you are being
_right_. If anything, its more likely a sign you're being _wrong_ (or that
your comment is otherwise not welcome). I suggest you don't worry too much
about up- or downvotes.

------
aaron695
Just a meta though.

Given this is 'false' via Snopes (as expected).... And lets say you buy into
the term fake news... Well you don't get much faker than this.

I get people are easily fooled for a short period. Read a news site, it takes
a hour or two to think it over. But this story is > days old. It's past mob
mentality level.

And if it's happening on this story what other HN stories would it effect.....
Stories on morality I guess. This is in part a 'evil Cubans' meme. SciFi, we
all want cool tech that breaks the laws of physics. Appeal to authority? We're
trusting in the US government officials to not be incompetent? Mysterious...
maybe is actually poison seems the next step in the meme's evolution....

As mentioned in the comments Canadians have caught this meme as well. It
travels well in the populous, how does one create spaces were these memes are
fire walled off?

