
Ask HN: How do you find freelance work? - i_am_nobody
I&#x27;m a software engineer with a full-time job, but I have lots of spare time in my off hours. I&#x27;d like to monetize this time, but finding freelance work has been extremely daunting.<p>I don&#x27;t have a ton of networking skills, so I don&#x27;t have a network I can tap for opportunities. I don&#x27;t really know how to find opportunities otherwise. I have the approvals I need from my full-time job to do this, but it&#x27;s still not something where I want to splash my name all over the place. I also don&#x27;t have a lot of public code, so no big portfolio I can point people to.<p>I&#x27;m not looking for massive pay, just something to occupy my time and some side money. But I want to leverage my skills, not do mechanical turk work.<p>How do you find freelance work?
======
goostavos
> I'm a software engineer with a full-time job, but I have lots of spare time
> in my off hours. I'd like to monetize this time

> I'm not looking for massive pay, just something to occupy my time and some
> side money.

This opinion will change. I 100% guarantee it. A few years ago, I had the
exact same reasoning for starting freelancing on the side. I even justified my
desire for more paid work as "I'd be programming on personal things anyway."

So, I took a freelance job. I thought it'd take about 6mo of weekend work. And
I took it at 40% of my normal day-job rate because, it was "friend" work, and,
again, "I'd be programming anyway."

It took two years.

That was two years of nights and weekends that did not belong to me. Two years
of not being able to devote time to exploring other technologies, learning new
things, or just goofing off. I took vacations from my day job to work on my
side project because I was so desperate to get it done and have freedom again.

The opportunity costs involved are absolutely massive and should be heavily
weighed before deciding to take on more work.

~~~
bbaumgar
It sounds like the issue here is more an issue of work conditions and rates,
rather than a problem with the actual work.

A counter-anecdote: A couple years ago I decided to freelance on the side, but
went the other way - I charged triple my day rate, and set a simple rule: no
stress allowed. If the client had tight deadlines or a stressful personality,
I didn't pursue them.

It's been a massively fun few years, and I've been able to pad my bank account
while working when and if I want. It was hard to turn down some great
opportunities that would have been stressful, but the biggest enemy isn't free
time: it's burnout.

High rates and optimizing for lack of stress don't guarantee lack of burn out,
but they go a long way.

~~~
DoreenMichele
You've got this figured out. Hoping for some additional tips, though my work
is a different field.

I do freelance writing, like resume editing and copy for business websites. I
have mostly worked when and as much as I wanted on projects I liked, but at
low pay through a service where I can't build a portfolio because I am a ghost
writer.

I am trying to figure out how to move away from that. Any thoughts on how to
learn how to find clients, set rates, etc? I am struggling with this
transition. I think I know a fair amount at this point about creating good
writing for certain kinds of things, but I seriously lack business acumen when
it comes to some of these specifics. And it's a serious barrier to closing
deals.

~~~
bbaumgar
Always more to learn, but I've been happy with the results so far.

My rule when I was unhappy with my rates was simple:

1\. Double my rates.

2\. If the client mentions my rates, but still agrees, then I haven't
increased them enough. Go back to step 1.

3\. If the client says no because of my rates, I move on (this can be a good
sign - if no one is turned away because your prices are too high, you don't
have too high of prices). If enough potential clients say no because of my
rates (50% lower conversion rate is break even when you've doubled your rates,
so # of clients must more than half), then I lower my rates. I quickly climbed
from $20/hour to my current rate using this strategy.

There's a nice effect here where higher rates suggest higher quality, which in
turn attracts the right types of clients and makes them more willing to pay.
I've also found that I want to give them $X/hour quality work, so I'm more
focused and the quality increases as a result. Lots of happy feedback loops.

For your specific situation - do you have many repeat customers? One trick
that worked well for me is to price my first project with a client at an
introductory rate 20% lower than what I actually want to earn (positioned as a
"first project discount"). When that project goes well and they come back for
more work, the introductory rate doesn't apply, and you've earned yourself a
20%/hour bonus.

~~~
DoreenMichele
Thank you for the reply.

I have had repeat customers through the service I work for. It's a completely
different ecosystem and doesn't translate to external clients. I like working
for the service and I don't plan to leave it, but I want to also develop
outside clientele.

Assume that trying to get clients outside that platform is a recent effort
that I haven't pursued too hard, in part because I don't know how.

------
brandontreb
"I don't have a ton of networking skills"

Work on this. I have built my consultancy over the past 6 years and it started
with me doing freelance and now we do over $1m/year in revenue.

I attribute the majority of success to networking. Here are some of the things
I did early on (and still continue to some extent).

1\. Local meetups. Great place to show off, hear about leads, etc...

2\. Find influencers / networkers in your area and buy them coffee. Ask tons
of questions and end with "Who else do you think I should be talking to?"

3\. Build stuff - I decided I wanted our team to be known locally for doing
crypto dev, so I just started building cool stuff and showing it off at the
local dev meetups. Now we have tons of crypt contracts!

Whatever you do, come at it with the attitude of wanting to contribute to the
community using your gifts/skills. The work will follow.

Best of luck!

~~~
WalterGR
_I have built my consultancy over the past 6 years and it started with me
doing freelance and now we do over $1m /year in revenue._

How many employees does your consultancy have including yourself?

 _Find influencers / networkers in your area and buy them coffee. Ask tons of
questions and end with "Who else do you think I should be talking to?"_

I feel like something is missing here. The sales part, I imagine. Otherwise
how does _simply_ asking people questions translate to business?

~~~
brandontreb
We have a mix of employees / contractors but usually hover around 9-10.

As far as asking questions, it’s about the long game. I aim to build
relationships with people and establish myself/my team as an authority on
software dev.

Almost none of my meetings are “sales” meetings, in fact we never do
advertising at all. All leads come from people who eventually want work or
refer their colleagues. Some meetings pan out and others don’t.

~~~
iamben
This a thousand times over.

Never sell yourself the first time you're meeting someone. Explain what you do
and turn the conversation back the person you're talking to. People love
hearing their own voice, so let them talk. Take a genuine interest in what
they do and they'll remember you as a good person.

If you can help them, reach out the next day with the whole "I was thinking
about X. We do Y, perhaps we could help." If you can connect them to someone
who can solve their problem that isn't you, do that as well.

As the parent says, people remember and refer / think of you first when you're
needed.

------
taprun
1\. Identify a skill that you have, and other people want. The more succinctly
you can describe it, the better. Programmer == bad. C# developer == better.

2\. Identify where people who need that skill spend time (meetups, clubs,
slack groups, podcasts, discussion websites, mailing lists, etc).

3\. Spend time at these places, delivering value, and pitching your wares. If
you can get on stage to present, even better. A strong effort in a few places
will usually beat a weak effort in many places.

4\. Tell people you know that you are looking for gigs in your specific niche
area.

5\. Find agencies, others who do this work and let them know you're available
if they get too much work, or get clients that aren't a great fit.

6\. Most importantly, never be anonymous. This post is an example of a missed
opportunity. Who knows, someone might have needed exactly what you're able to
offer.

~~~
collyw
Programmer == bad. C# developer == better.

I am a full time job person at present so I am by no means an expert but this
seems wrong to me. Aren't the majority of people who do the hiring for
freelancers non-technical? As such pushing a particular tech seems like a bad
idea. (I am always pretty skeptical of people who rant about how a particular
tech will solve the problem rather than how to actually solve the problem.
Heard "relational databases don't scale" too many time by people who have
relatively small data sets).

~~~
kjksf
A client that doesn't know what he wants is a bad client. Those kinds of
people often have unrealistic expectations like "I want a website like
Facebook for $500". Don't work for such people.

That leaves people who do know what they want. So let's look at it from their
perspective.

Let's say they need a Windows desktop app.

Two people apply for the job.

You say "I'm a great programmer, here's a website I wrote".

The other guy says: "I'm an experienced C# programmer. In the past I've
developed 3 Windows desktop applications in C#/WinForms and I can do the same
for you".

If you were hiring, who would get the job.

This is not about pushing C# technology but a best match between what the
client wants and what your skills are.

It's also not about C#.

What the OP meant is that if you have a specific skillset, you should market
that skillset specifically. Both ruby backend programmer and an iOS mobile
programmers are programmers, but when a client is looking for iOS mobile
programmer, he'll pick someone marketing his "iOS programming skills" over
someone marketing his "programming skills".

~~~
gk1
> A client that doesn't know what he wants is a bad client.

I disagree completely. A prospect who doesn't know what they want is an
opportunity for the freelancer to _provide more value_ by finding a solution
for them.

You're conflating "unrealistic expectations" with "I know I have a problem but
I don't know what the solution is." The former is something to avoid. The
latter should make cash-register sounds in your head because it's an
opportunity to provide more value and charge accordingly.

~~~
inanutshellus
I believe his main point is that a client that doesn't know what he wants also
doesn't know how much to spend, _and sure doesn 't want to over-spend._

If you find someone that doesn't know what they want but is throwing cash
around, sure, be the expert that leads them to digital nirvana.

Generally though, if they don't know what they want, they don't realize how
hard it is and so will be in for some serious shell-shock when you tell them
the price tag. At which point you're either lowering your rate to still do the
work or you've wasted a lot of time talking to them (which they generally
don't expect to pay for unless your forte isn't writing code but "being the
expert that tells you what you want").

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
This is where you quickly educate the customer. It's no different than you
calling a plumber, only to find out that what you thought would be a $50 job
is really a $500 job.

If they seem like the type who doesn't understand the cost, you tell them
"from your description you're already well into 5-figure development cost." Or
"$500 is typically what you'd expect to pay for minor website content
updates."

This ballpark pricing shouldn't take more than a few minutes to figure out.
And it puts the ball back in their court to do more research and figure out if
they can really afford the going rates.

------
dustingetz
Rate and job funnel is a function of portfolio strength.

1/ Right now, tonight, go make a portfolio like this one (mine):
[http://www.hyperfiddle-consulting.com/](http://www.hyperfiddle-
consulting.com/) (it can be a github markdown gist, host images on imgur or
github might even let you copy/paste images into markdown now). You do not
want to be coding javascript and html here. It needs to iterate fast. And it
needs to be done yesterday. Use markdown. Or a google doc.

2/ your portfolio will suck at first, but now that it exists, you _feel_ that
it sucks and now there is a driver function making you want to optimize it.

3/ post in the monthly HN freelancer thread, for example:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16495148](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16495148)
. If you don't get gigs, iterate your copy. Say you'll do it for a low rate if
it gives you open source commits. -> feeds into portfolio

4/ get screenshots of whatever gigs you can (if for example it is a public
site, or you can embed stuff into a company github readme for example
[https://github.com/wingspan/wingspan-forms#screenshots-
from-...](https://github.com/wingspan/wingspan-forms#screenshots-from-large-
real-world-project)) -> feeds into portfolio

5/ company doesn't do open source? Offer to open source some library or
utility in your free time. I polished wingspan-forms over thanksgiving and
christmas break 2013. It's a shitty library, nobody uses it. But it feeds into
portfolio!

6/ spend at least one weekend a month writing a blog post, tips and trick for
whatever javascript framework, or something -> feeds into portfolio

7/ go to a lot of local meetups, at least 1 a month, offer talks, your blog is
the starting point for talks, speak at least twice a year -> feeds into
portfolio

Freelancing is more work up front than wage slaving. But the sky is the limit
as to how much you can make. Oh and cut the silly bullcrap about not good at
networking blah blah whatever. Read a howto social skills book and show up at
meetups.

~~~
lamby
> Right now, tonight, go make a portfolio like this one (mine):
> [http://www.hyperfiddle-consulting.com/](http://www.hyperfiddle-
> consulting.com/)

I see that you are a 2-person "shop" \- would you still have a "foo-
consulting.com" personality if you were going solo? I'm kinda torn between the
two.

~~~
incredimike
I have a similar issue.

On any portfolio site I've attempted to build, I really dislike using the word
"I" (e.g. "I can help you build a website!").. but using "we" seems
disingenuious. (e.g. "We can help you with your programming woes!").

Recently though, I'm leaning towards "we" because it's better business-speak,
the "we" seems less risky, and it may not be factually incorrect if you ever
outsource any work.

Generally, I tend to avoid writing copy that uses pronouns altogether.

------
scardine
What works best for me:

1) Local meetups and conferences linked to my niche

For example: I like to give talks at the local Python meetups. The sponsors
tend to be companies that use or have some interest in Python.

First advice I give for new freelancers is to specialize. A newbie mistake is
to think you may be restricting your options by choosing a door but believe
me, behind that door is a hallway with hundreds of doors.

2) Stackoverflow careers

I respond to "help wanted" ads that allow remote - top quality leads. I'm not
affiliated with stackoverflow (but I 30k+ rep there).

3) I blog about what my secret sauces

Some times I receive leads from my audience. It is also a good way to keep in
touch with people I met at #1 as they are interested in the same subjects.

------
ArtofEmails
1\. You can try cold emailing the cofounders or department chiefs (CTO, VP of
Growth, etc.) of small to mid-size companies with a product that requires dev
work.

For example, you can try targeting startups who just raised a recent round (=
more aggressive growth goals) to pick up some dev/engineering slack on a
project basis as they scale quickly.

There are tons of email finders (hunter.io, voilanorbert.com) that let you
enter someone's full name and company name to find their email or their
company's email format.

2\. Keep your cold email short and frame hiring you as a way to launch and
scale experiments, product test features, etc. on a project basis without
needing to hire an additional full-time employee .

3\. Briefly provide 2 examples of how you used your engineering skills to
achieve an important business goal or solve a problem for companies you've
worked for. Provide 1-2 reference quotes vouching for your work and
reliability with links to their Linkedin profiles.

4\. Offer to work on a project basis and offer to start on a small project
with a defined deliverable to show them what you can achieve and how you'd be
like working for you.

5\. A/B test different email approaches. For example, you can also try asking
the prospect "What are your top 3 roadblocks that require dev work? I can
provide you insights on the most time efficient solutions that take up less
people resources" to open the conversation and demonstrate your expertise.

6\. Ask your current and previous colleagues to leave testimonials on your
Linkedin profile to further show you're legit and skilled.

~~~
jasonswett
Have you done these things?

------
amingilani
Toptal[1]

If you're a really good engineer (like I strongly believed I was) and don't
have the network to find gigs (I live in Pakistan) freelance market places are
great ideas on paper but never work out... Until I joined Toptal. They
screened me to ensure I was a good developer (high quality supply of
developers) and then worked with me to find a client that would be a good fit.

Since not everyone can get into the marketplace, it isn't a race to the lowest
rate and they have the best clients I've ever worked with. At one point an old
client emailed asking me to temporarily move to Australia for a project
(although I declined)

You can work full-time, part-time, or even hourly. It's exactly what you're
looking for!

Full disclosure: I later joined Toptal as an editor for their engineering
publication [2] so I technically work there but this was all based on my
experience as a freelancer there

[1]: referral link - topt.al/cppg [2]:
[https://www.toptal.com/developers/blog#contract-just-
respect...](https://www.toptal.com/developers/blog#contract-just-respected-
software-architects)

~~~
xevb3k
As a counterpoint, I found their interview process so frustrating and
disorganized that I gave up on them and told them I was no longer
interested...

They do both an online programming test, and an in person “code in front of
us” test + whatever else. They don’t make it clear up front what the interview
process is, and often drop the ball... miss appointments etc.

~~~
Haydos585x2
I found the exact same thing. I found the staff rude, slow and like they
thought I was beneath them. I consider myself a skilled developer with a long,
happy client list filled with some pretty big names. I also felt like they
didn't respect my time with regards to my timezone. The guys at gun.io have
been pretty nice but I haven't worked with them yet.

------
ryanjanvier
Focus on a niche and become the go to person in that field. In my case, I work
specifically with non-profit organizations that focus on Native American/First
Nation issues. By narrowing down my target, I have been able to build a
profitable network because I have specialized in that specific niche.

Once you have narrowed down your niche, its just a matter of being in the same
room as your potential clients. For me, it was attending conferences and
networking. But you could also hang out in subreddits, facebook groups,
linkedin groups, forums etc if you are an introvert.

~~~
bhu1st
Curious to know what do you do for non profits?

~~~
ryanjanvier
Apologies on delay in response. I usually focus on website design/maintenance,
as well as marketing materials for their events and other initiatives.

------
Jacqued
I understand you said you don't have networking skills. I too find networking
pretty awkward and tedious. But in my experience the best kind is the kind
that does not feel like networking at all.

You could go to relevant meetups for your skillset and find people who could
use your help there, but this still feels like networking. (it can be awkward
to talk to random strangers there)

However, there are other kinds of 'meetups' where it's just developers having
beers together and discussing our trade or whatever else. If you go to these
you'll become acquainted and maybe just make friends with some of them. This
does not feel like networking at all! Work will naturally come your way after
that.

Another good source of work is people you have already worked with in the
past. Drop them an email or invite them to lunch, it feels pretty natural to
just keep in touch (not awkward at all).

Anyway, these are just the ways I find work as someone who dislikes networking
and recently became a full-time freelance developer.

------
anon1094
The truth is is that you don't need a network to land freelance gigs. Going to
meetups is nice, but you can skip that step.

There are remote projects posted all the time on job boards, Slack channels,
Discord, Twitter, Facebook Groups, and many other places that aren't UpWork.

I freelanced for 4 years completely remotely as a front-end developer always
finding my clients in this way on various places and reaching out directly
with email.

It's always about consistently reaching out to keep your freelance pipeline
full, showing clients you have the technical skills by your showing previous
projects in your email cover letter, and that you can be reliable by
consistently emailing back quickly.

P.S. - I started [https://remoteleads.io/](https://remoteleads.io/) to solve
this problem of finding remote work for myself and it turns out many others
needed this too and now we're growing at a pretty consistent pace.

------
trav4225
A bit off-topic, but after reading "software engineer with a full-time job,
but I have lots of spare time in my off hours" I find myself contemplating if
I'm alone in wondering how anyone can have free time with a full-time software
job. I work full-time in software and it is an all-consuming, life-eating
thing. Perhaps (hopefully) I'm just "doing it wrong" and there is hope out
there for a life beyond work... :-)

~~~
news_to_me
IMO, if I'm _thinking_ about work more than 8hrs/day, I'm doing it wrong.
That's just me though. I love my job, and I love not worrying about it when I
leave.

Different employers can have pretty different expectations about this. I
always try to let potential employers know it's important to me when looking
for a job. Usually it's as simple as "Work life balance is important to me.
Can you describe how your company handles that?"

~~~
trav4225
Sounds very sensible. I plan to make it a point of emphasis during my next job
search.

------
sodafountan
I've used Upwork to varying degrees of success. Here are few of the pros and
cons

Pros: \- It's easy to get started, you can just create a profile and get
rolling. \- Lots of people on the other end of the spectrum, lots of potential
clients which can later help with networking.

Cons: \- Lots of competition, when you're just starting you have to work
really hard to build a reputable profile.

\- Upwork has lots of restrictions, so make sure you read the TOS. My first
account was deleted because of a TOS violation, don't let that happen to you.
\- 80% of potential clients either aren't serious or are clueless, this was
the major reason I stopped using the platfrom.

I did see some success and I still have clients that contact me for work that
I met through Upwork but I just can't stand the potential clients anymore and
have pivoted to my own startup.

~~~
blisterpeanuts
Also, be wary of the scammers; Upwork has a lot of them. I was taken in by one
or two that sounded legitimate, and now I'm super careful.

They typically try sucker you in with an almost-real sounding job, then try to
get you to accept a check via email (photo deposit) and then pay for some
equipment within 24 hours before the check clears. Or they find some other way
to obtain your financial details or login credentials. These people are clever
and evil, and Upwork apparently doesn't seem overly concerned about getting
rid of them.

------
nbrempel
[https://moonlightwork.com](https://moonlightwork.com)

~~~
philip1209
I'm the co-founder of Moonlight! I used to freelance full-time (and still do
it part-time). I had trouble finding gigs that matched my skills and
interests, e.g. optimization algorithms in Julia. Other sites were mainly web
development, but it seemed tough to justify a high hourly rate while doing
less specialized work.

So, I started Moonlight, where we match you based on skills. People are hiring
for things right now ranging from machine learning to Elm web development to
PCB design. The average hourly rate is over $100US/hr.

We are still in our early days and small (as a team of 2), but I'm making it
my full-time job to help you get quality freelance projects! I want to keep
jobs specialized and at a high hourly rate as we grow, and not sacrifice
quality.

Feel free to reach out to me with any questions! (philip@).

~~~
leojg
Hey, I checked you site, great work!

Only issue for me is that you only support stripe for payments and is not
available in my country, Uruguay.

Why is that? Why not leave the payment chanel free? Or use paypal or something
else?

~~~
philip1209
I was in Colonia last weekend - Uruguay is great!

At this point, it's a question of time to build in additional systems. Stripe
Connect let me (the solo engineer) build a marketplace quickly. However, it
doesn't have great international support.

We are looking at other options, such as Payoneer. The main priority right now
is on growing the client side of the market. However, after that, we will
likely return to the contractor side to work on some projects such as
expanding payment options.

~~~
leojg
Glad you like it :)

I understand, thanks for the answer

------
aspectmin
I do AI/ML/data science freelancing, (usually around cyber security), but also
do a lot of Devops / systems work.

The AI/ML stuff is harder to find, save through networking, but for the
DevOps/cloud/sysadmin - I favor weworkremotely.com and workingnomads.com.
Their email notifications are pretty handy as well.

As someone else mentioned - upwork works, but it’s very very competitive, and
I much preferred their Elance platform in the day.

~~~
Cyberdog
> workingnomads.com

Is that URL correct? I'm trying it and I'm seeing what appears to be an error
page in… Dutch. I'm gonna guess Dutch.

~~~
Domenic_S
They meant
[https://www.workingnomads.co/jobs](https://www.workingnomads.co/jobs)

------
blisterpeanuts
Be careful about taking on too many obligations. If you're single and your day
job is not too demanding, you might make it work, but if you have a family, it
can be tough.

I recently found some work through one of the freelance websites but had to
back out. I'm a full time software engineer but I am also a full time dad and
husband, and between shopping, cooking (I work from home so these tasks tend
to fall to me), going to dance and music recitals etc., it was just too much.

Regarding networking, if your employer sends you to technical conferences,
it's a great way to practice. Quite often I strike up a conversation over the
breakfast buffet. People are usually quite relaxed and willing to chat while
sugaring their coffee and grabbing a pastry. Everyone is in the same boat as
yourself; they all want to network, build up useful contacts and potential
business partners etc., so they will eagerly tell you about themselves,
exchange cards etc. After you have been doing it for a while, networking can
become natural and fun, and it's very worthwhile to cultivate a friendly and
outgoing manner. You never know but it may result in your next job offer. Good
luck!

~~~
badri
I can't agree with you enough on this :) It's indeed hard to build a
freelancing career between a day job and life.

------
remyp
I built something to help HN users network together. I can't promise it'll
bring you work, but it'll help you connect with other members of this
community without much effort on your part.

[https://findkismet.com](https://findkismet.com)

~~~
jason_slack
I have been a kismet user since they launched recently. I can say that a large
number of my "matches" either don't fill out what they "need help with" or
"can offer help with" and even more than that don't reply at all after I make
initial contact.

I was talking with another kismet user and they too said out of their matches
I was the only one that ever reached out to say hi.

I hope it gains popularity because I think the idea is great. I wouldn't count
on it though to find a job.

~~~
DoreenMichele
I've had multiple conversations with people, though, granted, it hasn't gotten
any specific concrete result yet. But I'm not expecting overnight results.

Experience is going to vary.

~~~
jason_slack
Cool. Here is to hoping, I have had a few e-mails of people that seem amazing
to talk to.

~~~
remyp
As the creator of Kismet I'm a user just like everybody else and your
experiences echo mine. I did recently release an update to match users with
empty profiles only against each other, so that should help. Measuring
responsiveness would require me to "get in the middle" of the conversation a
la AngelList or CoFoundersLab, which I don't like for privacy reasons.

I compare it to real-life networking events: the majority of people you talk
to aren't that interesting or helpful, but you have to talk to them to find
out. Kismet just lets you do it without leaving the house :)

~~~
jason_slack
I agree with also that you don't need to measure responsiveness.

However, one thought I have is if the user doesn't fill out pros and cons,
what good is making the match? They either don't need anything or have nothing
to offer. Perhaps match with other users that also put nothing?

------
badri
> I'm not looking for massive pay, just something to occupy my time and some
> side money.

You have two options. Start working on a side project which you find
interesting. Apply any new technologies you'd wanted to learn. You can either
profit from it, or worst case, you learned something new from that. I don't
want to glorify failure, but the most important thing is to ship it.

The less risky option is to build your brand/credibility in a niche area, like
offering a lot of value in form of blog posts, free e-books etc. This is more
organic, takes time, but builds the trust which makes it easier to find
clients.

Both options involve a combination of various skills other than pure technical
competence like marketing and project management.

------
fastbeef
Are consultant brokers/agent only a thing in the Nordic countries? I started
my own consultancy firm last year and just sent my profile to a bunch of
brokers. They all got in touch and presented assignments they had. I selected
one, went on 1 interview (!!) and bam - six month assignment. The broker gets
10% of what I make. It’s super convenient and saves me a bunch of stress and
time hunting assignments so the 10% is really worth it.

~~~
pleasecalllater
10% seems quite a lot, I'm wondering if your hour rate is so high that the 10%
doesn't matter.

~~~
tixocloud
If you think about opportunity cost, it might not be as much as you think.
Sometimes there’s a fee for getting to the next stage quicker than doing it
yourself. You’ll have to decide if the fee is worth it.

------
juliend2
__Do: __

1\. Get out of the building. That means finding other people 's problems.

2\. Show up. After work, offer to take a coffee with the CEO, or an the exec
of a company you know, just to talk about their problems and challenges they
are facing, and if applicable, tell them you could help them with that. The
simple fact of showing up often in a place will give the impression to people
that you are available for some work.

3\. Know your value in the market. Unless you know your value, you won't make
a significant amount of money to justify the time you put in. Which leads me
to point #4:

4\. If you still don't find anything to do for profit, try offering your
skills to a non-profit organization that would benefit a lot from your skills.
For their website, or an internal app. These projects are sometimes fun to do
and you can get some valuable experience in an interesting tech you like, in a
project that you know will be useful and meaningful to others.

 __Don 't: __

1\. ...say yes too often.

2\. ...under-estimate the time it would take to finish up the project.

3\. ...ignore your gut feeling when starting a relationship with people. Bad
people don't look that bad on first impression.

Good luck!

------
DoreenMichele
Once a month on the first, HN does a piece called "Freelancer / Seeking
Freelancer." You could post to that and/or check it for "Seeking Freelancer"
comments.

~~~
Cyberdog
Unfortunately, the "Freelancer" posts outweigh the "Seeking Freelancer" posts
by ten to one or so. I tried posting in the last thread, and the only response
I got was from someone asking me to work on a project which involved helping
people buy a certain substance which is still illegal in my state. Didn't
wanna touch it.

~~~
scardine
Answering job board ads is a numbers game - I can't get better than 20:1 even
being very selective.

------
e_reder
I've been in the freelance game for the last five years.

If you're based in the US or Europe I wouldn't waste my time with
Freelancer.com or Upwork. The competition for jobs on these platforms is
usually too high.

Here are my best resources for finding freelance jobs:

1\. And Co's gig list And Co is a true life saver for me as a freelancer.
Their app is 100% free and does everything I need: invoicing, contracts,
payments, time tracking, etc.

They send out a weekly newsletter with lots of opportunities from all over the
internet. It's kind of a hidden gem. Lots of value >> [https://www.and.co/gig-
list](https://www.and.co/gig-list)

2\. Angel List

3\. Remote.io

However, there are lots and lots of other platforms. I recommend you look at
this article [https://www.and.co/freelance-jobs](https://www.and.co/freelance-
jobs)

------
ollerac
Be helpful, polite, and talk to people. This can be on an online forum, group
chat, or in person. If you are genuinely helpful and polite, you will form
relationships, which can eventually lead to jobs.

It's precisely when you're not trying to find work that the wildest
opportunities will come to you.

------
aantix
No network? No incoming leads from LinkedIn/Website/Github?

Go direct. You ask. Find the VP/CEO/Senior engineer, and ask them.

~~~
roybarberuk
I can vouch, this works!

------
ttoinou
I am in the exact opposite situation right now : how do I find a C system
freelancer ?

~~~
irremediable
The freelancer thread can work, and hopefully you have a network you can ask.

Please, though, tell us more about it! What's the project in a nutshell? What
kind of developer skills do you need? Rough ideas of time investment and
compensation?

~~~
ttoinou
Work to be done includes pixel format conversion, creating multi threaded
encoding queue, documenting existing code / reorganizing the files, creating a
little parser for command lines generation. 3 Months minimum

~~~
jason_slack
I have a lot of experience here and have worked on a large graphic application
that you may know about if you are in the industry.

------
tpae
I'm actually in need of a react native developer, if anyone is interested,
drop me a line at: tpae@superteam.io

------
mgav
Consider volunteering for relevant work at a non-profit you care about
(especially if the executives, volunteers or Board members are connected to
organizations that interest you).

~~~
52-6F-62
There's also the United Nations Online Volunteers.

They have an internal postings board for non-profit and charity organizations
all around the world that have applied for volunteer technical help. There's a
lot of need out there.

[https://www.onlinevolunteering.org/en](https://www.onlinevolunteering.org/en)

------
HeyLaughingBoy
Start by turning all those "I don'ts" into "I do's."

------
gk1
See: [https://www.gkogan.co/blog/how-i-learned-to-get-
consulting-l...](https://www.gkogan.co/blog/how-i-learned-to-get-consulting-
leads/)

TL;DR - I tried out networking but it didn't work for me. Instead what's
worked very well is writing educational content about the topic I'm an expert
in. People often search for a solution to a problem before they decide to hire
someone else to just do it for them. If they find your instructions for
solving that problem, they might think "Why don't I just pay this person to do
it for me? They'll probably do it better and faster."

~~~
lgregg
Thanks, I really like your article. I have some follow up questions:

\- When you're blogging, do you have a method to figure out what to write
about? Are there "types" of posts that are more successful for you than
others?

\- You said that most of your work comes from referrals now. What do you think
about people trying to get in the game and start making free tools for a
specific industry like (i.e. construction) to generate leads? I know some
startups use this as a marketing tactic, like HubSpot's website grader. Then
just freely promoting that tool in a group of LinkedIn construction
executives.

~~~
gk1
I pay attention to the questions my clients ask and the pain they're feeling,
then write about that because I assume other potential clients have the same
pain. Occasionally I write about something just because it's been on my mind.
I specifically the strong urge to write for other people like myself (that is,
other marketers), because they're never going to become my clients.

I like the idea of having a tool that acts as a lead generator, so long as it
doesn't take too much time to make, because there's no guarantee it will work.

------
cekanoni
But the question is what website beside the upwork and frelance you can use to
find jobs related to network/system administration ?

------
hellbanner
Mostly referrals. Though now I'm looking for something more stable and am
expanding my searches through Linked In, Gunio & Stack Overflow career this
weekend.

(10 years doing iOS, Android, React, Javascript, Ruby and more recently Erlang
+ Smart Contract programming, if any of this interests you/your corp reply
with a contact page!)

------
gmcerveny
I'm a full-time freelancer and I'm super specific on my niche, new music
technology. I find that works pretty well. Sometimes I'm applying for gigs,
sometimes folks just cold email me, and sometimes people refer others my way.
But being a specialist seems to be the one thing that works best for me.

------
justinzollars
I have a FT job, but I've maintained a website on S3 for a client for a few
years now.

I charged quite a bit up front, and now charge a yearly maintenance fee.

Honestly, its best to focus on your FT job and not spread yourself too thin.
Enjoy your time off or contribute to open source with your free time.

------
greg_____ory
I find that meeting my clients face to face before engaging goes a long way
for both of us.

In the times I haven’t made time to do this, I feel like a robot receiving
endless requests. I don’t think they remember I’m a real person.

Eye contact and a handshake go a long way.

------
pknerd
I used to be a freelancer, work as a remote contractor for a US based company.

The conventional and shortcut way is to find jobs on upwork, freelancer.com
etc, the difficult but rewarding route is to introduce yourself as an
authority for the thing you want to be hired. The best way to do is to put
profile online and write SEO optimized blog posts.

<shameless_plug> I wrote a blog post on this matter which you can read here:
[http://blog.adnansiddiqi.me/5-ways-developers-can-have-
multi...](http://blog.adnansiddiqi.me/5-ways-developers-can-have-multiple-
income-streams/) </shameless_plug>

------
parallel_item
Folks hate on Upwork.com but I have used it to secure and build good long-term
relationships. Once the relationships grew we could take it offline to a more
formal relationship. Because I started my career as an accountant, I have been
able to start 2 of these relationships as an accountant and move over to data
analysis.

A good note to include is I do this part-time while working full-time and
don't think I could simply expand this contract deal flow to fill a full time
schedule if I needed to. I also have ruined a relationship early on by not
respecting the part-time work enough and slowing down the folk's timeline.

~~~
bugBunny
Thats illegal, you had signed contract with upwork.

~~~
tortasaur
Assuming the parent is talking about completing a contract on Upwork, then
setting up future contracts outside of Upwork: it's not illegal, it's just
against their TOS.

------
megablast
> I'm a software engineer with a full-time job, but I have lots of spare time
> in my off hours.

You are a SE, you are in the best position ever to work on your own projects,
create your own startup, implementing your own ideas.

~~~
custos
I think you overestimate the capabilities of a software engineer. I'm a
backend developer. I can design and implement the backend of enterprise level
systems (APIs, Service Bus, Scheduled Jobs, Automation of operations, etc).

But you still need a front end designer, a front end developer to write the
clients users actually interact with and a domain expert who understands the
needs of the people the software is being made for.

Sure, some people can probably do all of those things. But I haven't yet met
someone who could do them all as well as a specialist.

Only opportunity I've had to work in startups, is when I'm working with a
domain expert and a front end developer who happens to know enough about
design to be the UX designer as well.

Best case scenario, that person is also a domain expert, or I am. Either way
that still involves me finding someone else with the drive, passion, time and
energy to pursue a startup.

Oh and that's ignoring all the legal crap you have to deal with in a startup.

Freelance = Let them deal with all the bullshit and take their money to solve
a problem you can solve well.

Startup = You have a team of people with a common vision. Or one person with
the capital to hire them all... which has been my most common experience (they
usually are domain expert too). Maybe you get rich, maybe you lose all your
invested time/money, maybe you get screwed due to not understanding the legal
documents you signed.

Startups are hard. Hell I had a group of guys that each had complementary
skillsets and we considered starting a company that consulted for startups
(helping them understand what to do, and guiding them through the process).
Unfortunately two of them passed away :(

------
bbimbop
Agree with taprun. It is easier to communicate when you are specific. What do
you build or like to build? Lots of people would like to work with an engineer
like you on projects, myself being one.

------
bsaul
Reading your question makes me wonder if you're tackling the correct issue.

\- Why do you feel the need to work on the side to "leverage your skills" ?
Your fulltime job should give you this opportunity.

\- Why do you want to work with computers on your spare time ? Spare time is
also a way to broaden your horizon. Go try new things, meet new people from
different fields, etc. The fact that you describe yourself as having poor
networking skills makes me wonder if you haven't spent a bit too much time
alone in a front of a computer already.

------
nikkwong
Find opportunities to plug what you have in places that are relevant. Every so
often HN has threads where I talk about my experience with web design at
www.beaver.digital, and it always lands me tons of work. I'd recommend just
hanging out in internet communities that are interesting to you and that
potentially have people that can hire you, like this one. I'm secretly
terrible at networking, but that surprisingly has not been an issue
whatsoever.

------
tomcooks
Here's the method I used to build myself a consultancy business: buy a 9.90€
suit jacket at h&m, a 0.80€ pen and a moleskine notebook.

Wake up at 7 the next day, start knocking doors and sell your services to
every business in town; the trick is that you can't go home and eat until you
have at least a prospect client.

Don't cold call, don't send emails, don't print business cards. Knock doors
while looking professional and competent, you'll get clients soon.

~~~
glomph
Isn't that exactly what cold calling is?

~~~
tomcooks
Maybe it's because I'm not a native english speaker, but isn't there a huge
difference between looking up numbers and showing up in person in a business
(casual) attire?

I don't understand the downvotes, the above strategy worked really well for me
and I'm a very shy person with no sales background.

~~~
lyndonjohnsonbe
Cold calling got it's name from that but generally people think of it as
reaching out to someone to sell them something with no prior introduction.

------
mirimir
As other have said, I initially found clients through work. And eventually, I
found more through reputation, and word of mouth.

Initially, I billed at about twice my salary, to account for overhead. But I
eventually realized that even that was less than half of typical consulting
rates. So I gradually increased my billing rate, and redefined my old rate as
that for established clients. And then I gradually ratcheted that up as well.
But I did lose some old clients.

------
scrollaway
When I do freelance (which is never these days), Codementor (affiliate link):
[https://www.codementor.io/i/3tiesmnbt9](https://www.codementor.io/i/3tiesmnbt9)

HackHands is pretty fun too ([https://hackhands.com](https://hackhands.com))
but very short term stuff and very low volume. If you have spare time it's
nice though.

------
fecak
Let the work find you. One method is to turn on the "notify recruiters you are
open" on LinkedIn (a toggle under Jobs) and write a note saying you want
contract work. The setting is about a year old, and it notifies recruiters
that are searching for candidates that you are open to listening.

You can also set filters for location, contract vs perm, size of company, and
set a personal note on what you are open to.

------
nurettin
>> I'm a software engineer with a full-time job, but I have lots of spare time
in my off hours

I have a contract in my current workplace which lets me bill off-hours (they
also pay for my taxi costs when I work late, they also pay double during
holidays) so I am happily not taking any side jobs. Your day job can become
your night job if you can produce more work off-hours for them.

------
benatkin
There's a job channel for React on the Reactiflux Discord server. I think
there's also one on the Apollo slack community, and I've seen them in other
places too. I don't know how effective they are because I'm trying to get my
project further along before posting to them.

------
mancerayder
It's an excellent question.

I'm learning that now.

Basically it boils down to either

1\. Using job boards / LinkedIn and going through recruiters, many of whom
have a contract department.

Here's the problem. Many recruiters misrepresent to YOU what the client
requirement is. I found myself in situations where the client was interested
but all along they wanted a temp-to-hire / contract-to-hire (do NOT do this on
principle even if you are gunning for full time work!), while I seek pure
contracts / long-term contracts.

Here's the bigger problem. Recruiters / agencies take a __huge __cut. We 're
talking 40-60% or more. So if you want 120 bucks an hour, the client would see
a bill for 180 an hour.

Let's take a step back and think about that. If the client is ready to pay
close to 180 or a bit below, that means that you can charge a much higher rate
than 120. You can charge, say, 140, and still the client is happy with the
cost.

But it's very difficult because this requires relationships with senior people
in companies. This brings me to number 2.

2\. Networking. I don't think here we're talking about going to a Meetup or a
tech conference and flashing business cards. Maybe that'll work (please tell
me it worked for someone and I'll do it). What it REALLY means is all those
managers of your past, those people you really got along with in those jobs
you had in the past (and you DID have a bunch of jobs in the past, right,
hopefully not just one!), those people are potential sources of contract. Some
hiring managers can convince their managers they need a contractor -- I did it
as a hiring manager once, and one of my ex-bosses did it to re-hire me.

I think LinkedIn is the Facebook of the business world for that. While in
Facebook you have to suffer people's baby pics and food pictures so that
friends and family don't forget your exist, in LinkedIn you suffer platitudes
about hard work and Leadership and Important Thoughts -- so that your ex co-
workers and employers don't forget you exist.

I tried using HN and people I knew personally for tiny, one-off, small
projects and it was a total nightmare. Inconsistent, cheap, and a lot of
overhead. There's so much talking and meeting and phone calls and such for
which I never billed, for work that never materialized or (might still/will)
materialize.

Networking is key and I'd love to hear some tips here!

------
askari01
finding freelance work is easy, depends how much and what kind of work you
want to do. fiver to upwork & freelance... but you will miss exploring new
stuff. but side project will turn you into a machine, if you don't find
something interesting or aligning with your interests. Must charge more than
normal day time. I do it just for fun and don't charge much but i only do it
to buy stuff online as my bank account doesn't support buying books, games &
apps online. (i don't take more than an hour work)

------
goatherders
I Work alone and make sure I do awesome work for a reasonable fee. Working
alone keeps costs low. Awesome work keeps referrals high. Reasonable fee keeps
repeat business coming in.

------
mathattack
100% through people I’ve worked with before. (Finding work is not hard if you
have a good reputation but very hard before you’ve built one.)

------
zachguo
UpWork, given your situation. And start building up your Github, LinkedIn or
Blog to boost your online presence.

------
stallieman
Get involved in your local community (politics). You should get a lot of IT
jobs, where you can make a name for yourself. Also, you can attribute to
linux, by fixing and helping with the bugs and the kernel. When being a
freelancer, you should be a bit more high profile than you are now?

------
nickjj
If you're curious, I wrote a post[0] quite some time ago that covers a few
things you could do to start a successful freelance business without any prior
network.

The TL;DR is to goto local meetups and talk to people in the street while
avoiding freelancing marketplaces like the plague. That's how I mostly started
freelancing 20 years ago and it's what I still do today.

You don't need a portfolio or anything to start getting clients.

[0]: [https://nickjanetakis.com/blog/how-to-start-a-successful-
fre...](https://nickjanetakis.com/blog/how-to-start-a-successful-freelance-
business-as-a-software-developer)

------
captnphilip
Easy, send us an email: hello@recurpal.com

------
jaequery
you might want to try Upwork if you haven't.

------
dohertyjf
CodeMentor.io FreeeUp.com Upwork.com Fiverrr.com (not just $5 gigs)
Codeable.io

Do you need more?

~~~
roybarberuk
Ergh... Probably the worst places to find work. A saturated market of
freelancers that will accept any price to do any work. OP you're better than
this!

~~~
radubrehar
I've been a mentor on Codementor for almost a year now, and it's the opposite
of what you're suggesting. I have very professional mentoring sessions solving
interesting problems, and getting payed really good money.

