
Lapis Lazuli: A Blue More Precious Than Gold - anacleto
https://hyperallergic.com/315564/lapis-lazuli-a-blue-more-precious-than-gold/
======
RealDinosaur
So now we make PB29 (ultramarine) synthetically, and you can get tubes of
ultramarine paint for around $5 for 250 ml of the stuff! This is purer than
any artist could have gotten back then!

We also manufacturer other synthetic pigments such as PB15:3 (Phthalo Blue),
and PR122 (Quinacridone Magenta) which are far superior than anything
historically. Phthalo blue in particular is one of the strongest tinting
colors in an artists pallet and is so cheap to manufacture.

Occasionally colors get discontinued, as was the case with Quin Gold (PO49).
This is as artists are a secondary market, and when an industry stops needing
a pigment, the few artists that use it have no influence. Watercolors for
instance come in tiny 5ml tubes!

There is also some confusion about pigments created by the art supply
companies. Classical colors such as 'yellow ochre' and 'burnt sienna' get
replaced with modern pigments such as PR101.

Golden is very good at labeling paints. Winsor and Newton and Royal Talens...
not so much!

[https://www.justpaint.org/sorry-wrong-umber-
part-i/](https://www.justpaint.org/sorry-wrong-umber-part-i/)

I love geeking out over this stuff.

Appendix: You want to start painting acrylics? Get the following:

    
    
      Cadmium Yellow Light / Cadmium Lemon (PY35)
      Cadmium Yellow Deep (Make sure single pigment) (PY35)
      Cadmium Red Light (PR108)
      Quin Magenta / Quin Rose (PR122)
      Ultramarine Blue (PB29)
      Phthalo Blue (PB15:3)
      Titanium White (PW6)
      Ivory Black (Pbk9)
      Burnt Sienna (PBr7)

~~~
toufiqbarhamov
I’m finding this fascinating, any other good links to learn about this kind of
thing?

~~~
RealDinosaur
The other fascinating thing is light-fastness. PR83 (Alizarin Crimson) is a
cool red (purple facing), and is recommended by many art teachers...

It's also objectively shit as a pigment. It is not light-fast at all, and
fades after only a few months.

[https://www.justpaint.org/alizarin-crimson-now-you-see-
it/](https://www.justpaint.org/alizarin-crimson-now-you-see-it/)

Yet art teachers continue to recommend it. Nowadays most companies sell it as
a 'Hue'. That is a mixture of more light-fast paints designed to emulate the
original, but some companies sell 'Alizarin Crimson Genuine', which is still
recommended by academics to this day.

Other fugitive colors include aureolin and chrome yellow. The later of which
was used by Van Gogh and has caused his paintings to fade irreversibly.

[https://cen.acs.org/articles/94/i5/Van-Goghs-Fading-
Colors-I...](https://cen.acs.org/articles/94/i5/Van-Goghs-Fading-Colors-
Inspire.html)

~~~
toufiqbarhamov
Thanks, I’m going to read myself into a coma tonight.

~~~
DoctorOetker
> ... read myself into a coma

is this a common phrase or regular expression? American or British english?

I do this all the time, and when I start to feel like I'm going to crash, I
force myself until I'm close to the next deep insight (like when you see a set
of equations slowly taking a certain shape and you think "ok, I think I see
where this is going") and stop reading there and then, go to sleep, and the
next morning ... the very first thing I think about is finishing that train of
thought... It somehow helps me remember the information better, I don't know
why but uf I had to take a guess: when we expose ourself to information we
aren't wondering about, our brain does not perceive it as important, while if
you set up the experience as a cliffhanger, you trick your brain into
pondering the unfinished train of thought, both as you try to fall asleep and
the moment you wake up and realize you want to finish the train of thought...
it's like you get to pick one low effort memorizable deep insight per day (you
could reach more during the day, but those require higher level of effort, and
don't reside in the uncertain or pondering phase long enough to subconsciously
gain importance, we remember our big breakthroughs not our smaller ones, and
when you know you will read the answer in a few seconds your brain exerts less
effort in pondering the questionn)

~~~
kazinator
I don't know about common, but it just follows the pattern of "drink oneself
into a stupor".

------
pseudolus
One of the oldest exemplars of the use of lapis lazuli is "Ram in the
Thicket", a pair of statues that date back to sometime between 2600-2400 BC.
[0][1][2]. They're extremely intricate and, unfortunately, photographs don't
do them justice. One of the pair is at the University of Pennsylvania and the
other is at the British Museum.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_in_a_Thicket](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_in_a_Thicket)

[1]
[https://britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collect...](https://britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?objectId=368265&partId=1)

[2]
[https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1920&bi...](https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1920&bih=912&ei=8_lJXIK9KOOqggeTwr_gBw&q=ram+in+the+thicket&oq=ram+in+the+thicket&gs_l=img.3..0j0i24l8.518.5642..5960...2.0..1.232.1485.17j2j1......0....1..gws-
wiz-img.....0..0i5i30j0i10i24.zGUWPkA6_v4)

------
vanderZwan
It's kind of funny how much your perception of old art changes once you know
about the value of the blue pigment. If you don't know, the Scrovegni Chapel
is just a very blue chapel. If you do, it becomes a ridiculous display of
wealth.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrovegni_Chapel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrovegni_Chapel)

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47QgqdeSi0U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47QgqdeSi0U)

------
smhenderson
Just heard an interesting story[1] on NPR recently about scientists who were
studying teeth in medieval skeletons and found Lapis Lazuli in a woman's
teeth. This led them to the hypothesis that she was a scribe and that the
residue in her teeth came from her putting a paint brush in her mouth.

The upshot of the article is about rethinking the traditional notion that
all/most scribes in the middle ages were merry old monks. But they do describe
what Lapis Lazuli is and what it was used for back then.

[1] [https://www.npr.org/sections/health-
shots/2019/01/09/6832839...](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-
shots/2019/01/09/683283982/a-blue-clue-in-medieval-teeth-may-bespeak-a-womans-
artistry-circa-1-000-a-d)

------
rrauenza
How successful in industry are these "please subscribe" popups that come up
after about 5 seconds?

Does anyone _really_ subscribe? Is the conversion rate really significantly
greater than about 0%? I have never once put my email address into the box and
have a hard time imagining anyone doing so -- yet these popup boxes persist.

~~~
J5892
Very.

Our email signups jumped by ~10% when we started using them. And the bounce
rate increase was negligible.

I despise them as much as you do, but they work.

~~~
mikekchar
I've actually come to the conclusion that we have people come to our website
just to get the popup to subscribe to our newsletter. I blows my mind.
However, I've known for a while that it is a mistake to think that my views
are representative of normal people ;-)

------
gww
I always wanted to read a book on the history of pigments and other artist
supplies from a chemistry perspective. In particular, how they were found,
isolated and used.

~~~
pseudolus
Try "Bright Earth: Art and the Invention of Colour" by Phillip Ball. [0]. If
you're just interested in the colour blue there's also "Blue: The History of a
Color" by Michel Pastoureau [1]. The Pastoureau book is more of an overview of
art history than a discussion of the history underlying the discovery of the
pigment itself.

[0] [https://www.amazon.com/Bright-Earth-Art-Invention-
Color/dp/0...](https://www.amazon.com/Bright-Earth-Art-Invention-
Color/dp/0226036286)

[1] [https://www.amazon.com/Blue-History-Color-Michel-
Pastoureau/...](https://www.amazon.com/Blue-History-Color-Michel-
Pastoureau/dp/0691090505)

~~~
gww
Oh cool I will check those out for sure thanks!

------
sandworm101
I cannot read about lapis without being reminded of this tidbit:

"In the middle of the room, set into the lapis lazuli floor, is the foundation
stone of the Home of FIFA."

[https://www.fifa.com/about-fifa/home-of-fifa/fifa-
headquarte...](https://www.fifa.com/about-fifa/home-of-fifa/fifa-
headquarters.html)

------
crazynick4
I've heard that one of the reasons that ancient paintings kept their colors
for so long is because they got them from grinding up the stones like Lapis.
Not sure how they make the modern colors but apparently they fade a lot
faster. Some of these older paintings are hundreds of years old and still look
fresh, which is pretty impressive.

------
mlthoughts2018
I recommend the song Lazuli by the band Beach House very much.

[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvwl7INZykc](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvwl7INZykc)

------
DoctorOetker
Lapis Lazuli also plays a big role in the film "Land of the Enlightened" where
you get to see kids run the show for once :)

------
mtw
Interesting article but the article does not say how much was Lapis Lazuli was
worth vs gold. The author gets away with "... often prized over gold...". If
Lapis Lazuli was valued only once over gold in its entire history, then
statement is true, which isn't really useful info. Click-bait title much?

