
Karma is Real - jsonmez
http://simpleprogrammer.com/2012/08/19/karma-is-real/
======
paulsutter
My best suggestion for the author of the post, is to return to the restaurant.
Be gracious, say please and thank you. Make sure your kid is especially well
behaved. Tip well (30% plus). When you get the chance, tell the owner that you
come an extra distance because you appreciate her food and enjoy the place.
Because it's a touchy subject now, don't quibble about the bill (even if
there's clearly a mistake). For a while, don't worry about the promotion.

Just be a good customer. You'll see, in time, that her attitude will soften,
and things will be comfortable again.

It's hard to run a business, whether it's a startup or a breakfast spot. There
are lots of stresses your customers will never see, and a lot of burdens.
Especially financial burdens on non-venture-funded/bootstrapped businesses
like the breakfast place. Maybe she snapped, maybe she overreacted. Maybe
there's more to it than you realize. Maybe she gets annoyed with people who
are too exacting about small financial things.

It doesn't matter. Just be a good customer to her. It's he best thing you can
do.

~~~
vacri
I found it particularly ironic that the author considered this a 'single
transaction' from the eatery's side, but a 'lifelong' transaction from his
side. If you're really not worried about single transactions, pay up today,
and get the discount next time. Extrapolated out, you make the loss of an
amazing $1.25 - instead of wasting your own time and causing a scene.

~~~
jsonmez
The difference is being the customer vs being the service provider. As the
customer I have options, I can go elsewhere. I pay for food service because I
get service, I can get food anywhere. When I stop getting service, I stop
paying. Do I really care about the $10? No, but it makes a great point for a
blog post.

~~~
vacri
I don't care about the food or the service in your story, it's irrelevant to
my point. I care about you having different standards for the two parties.
Standing on principle over a measly $1.25 is 'single-transactioning'.

If you were really concerned about your lifetime transactions, you'd take the
blip and keep on running. You've already said that the eatery has 'high
quality food and higher quality service', so it's clear that this behaviour is
not the norm. So what you're saying here is that at the sign of the first mis-
step, you're out the door? That means you see it as a series of single
transactions.

~~~
jsonmez
Actually, I had said it was around a $10 transaction, which I agree is also
not important. But what is very important to me is that on my relaxation time
(which I have so little of, hence the value)-- I am surrounded by the
atmosphere that gives me peace and makes me feel good. That is the point of
going to a nice little cafe with my family. This cafe has a history of bad
reviews which parallel my experience and I rather go to a place I feel valued
at. So, I am actually looking at things in the bigger scope. I have enough
information to know that I don't want to pay money to be mistreated. I don't
see that as a double standard in any way. I do understand your point though
and I still think it is a good point, just not in this particular situation,
because of the circumstances. In a 100 other circumstances, I would agree with
you 100%. If that makes me a hypocrite in your eyes, then so be it. I didn't
even want to make as big of a deal as it as it is. It didn't ruin my day by
any means... Just wanted to use it as a point for this post.

~~~
noonespecial
Don't sweat it man. That's one of the things that's both awesome and
frustrating about HN. It surrounds every issue and flows into every crack like
water.

Its hard to use metaphors and analogies here because you have to consider all
of the implications and breaking points because you know someone is going to
draw them out ab absurdum.

I think that most people understand that your role in the story was "generic
customer" and that the story wasn't supposed to be about your actions at all.
You were supposed to be the black box and the restaurant the introspected
actor.

We troll the ones we love the most. It's a subtle form of compliment.

~~~
jsonmez
LOL, thanks. Felt like I was taking crazy pills for a moment. :P

------
vibrunazo
"Every model is wrong, but some are useful." - George Box

While every model is a simplification, and technically wrong. Some
simplifications can be useful when they are right almost every time. But this
is not the case here. This is too much of an oversimplification, he
overgeneralized it. The only useful take away from here is "mind the long term
consequences". Everything else needs to be decided case by case. "The costumer
is always right" is an overgeneralization. It's not always right, it depends.
It's not even almost always right. You'll need to be critical case by case
more often then not. It's not useful to oversimplify this.

~~~
vacri
I remember hearing a businessman say "The customer is not always right. The
customer has a right to be _heard_ ".

------
jim_kaiser
While I agree with the whole long term vs short term thing. One should be
careful about how to apply this. For instance, devoting yourself to your
soulless corporate job most often doesn't pay dividends in the long term.
There are many companies out there who are happy with exploiting such
employees. I say this because I have done just the same thing the last 4 years
i.e. put in my heart and soul for such a company. Happily, I have moved on to
better things and the company is worse off. So yay karma :) But, you sometimes
have to make tough decisions now in order to achieve your long term goals.

[EDIT: I did become a really good programmer in the process and learnt a lot
from my team lead who was highly knowledgeable, so that was the only good to
come out of it.]

------
m0skit0
"Someone is using your software otherwise you wouldn’t be writing it." Well
this is actually wrong. A lot of people write code just for fun (for the
lulz), or for their personal use.

~~~
yxhuvud
There is also a whole lot of code that gets written but never used.

------
K2h
The business owner could have been upset because the promotion ended up
rewarding an established regular customer instead of converting a new client
to a regular. regardless of the reason you were treated unfairly be the
account presented.

I have had enough promotions and warrantys turn out to be more work than they
are worth (usually some escape clause or fine print) that I tend to either let
my wife deal with them (I know... let the flaming begin) or just avoid them
all together.

~~~
nikatwork
If the promotion didn't work out, that's the business owner's fault. Taking it
out on a loyal customer is just wrong-headed.

------
alexanderh
The only problem I see with this analogy is that "Development" and
"Programming" is an entirely different class of job as "Register attendant at
a cafe."

If it was the owner of the cafe who did this, then that'd be really strange,
because obviously the owner probably does (or at least should) have the "big
picture" in his/her mind. But some lowly employee who checks people out at the
cash register? Of course they dont see the big picture, its not their business
to.

Good points though, although they are all kind of a no-brainer in my mind.
This seemed a lot more like a chance to articulately vent frustration, than
actually making any real points or major revelations.

Sorry your family got hassled like this.

~~~
MattRogish
I've found the best performing consumer companies require their employees to
think in the same way.

~~~
jsonmez
Great point

------
harscoat
If you are genuinely interested in humans as humans, who they are, their
personal stories, their touching, impressive, positive specifities and in them
not as means for x,y,z, you'll be rich! (doesn't mean only with money)

~~~
KC8ZKF
The author's xyz in this case was making a point. Instead of paying for the
meal and getting his freebee the _next_ time his daughter and he ate at the
cafe, he felt he was RIGHT and JUST, the owner was WRONG and SHORTSIGHTED.

I wouldn't be bringing this up if it weren't for the authors use of "karma."
It seems like all parties incurred some karma here.

------
nnq
Simpler interpretation of the cashier's behavior: thinking in terms of
transactions is the obvious rational thing to do for the cashier, but things
would probably have been VERY DIFFERENT if you interacted with the OWNER of
the place! Owners care about the long term success of the business so they are
usually much more friendly to costumers than employees. And I think this can
be generalized to the fact that the few employee owned businesses way have
much better customer relationships.

~~~
StavrosK
It wasn't a cashier, it was the owner.

------
lifeguard
I find the pop (mis)use of the word "Karma" annoying. Karma is part of a cycle
of reincarnation. Karmic benefits do not accrue in one's current life -- they
affect the next life. Our current situation is the result of actions in a past
life.

Every person I have heard use this word casually does not believe in any form
of reincarnation.

And to go deeper, this is a selfish argument for ethics or hard work. "Do it
because it is good for you" should be, "Do it well because this is the correct
thing to do".

------
mikecane
This the kind of thing Scott McKain writes about all the time:
<http://mckainviewpoint.com/>

Remember the recent story of United losing the kid? No big picture there,
either!

------
mckilljoy
Those 'single transactions' start to be a lot more important the closer you
get to your bill deadlines! People tend to be a lot more generous after the
1st of the month has past :-)

------
philhippus
My antivirus (Bitdefender AV plus 2012) blocks the link with a warning of
malware detected on the page.

------
guscost
A lot of things seem to be real these days, it's crazy.

------
guscost
damn straight!

------
lightyrs
"There are only two types of people in this world..."

This is always a great indication that the author engages in reductionist
simpletonia. There are many types of people in this world, all of which can be
plotted along a spectrum between two poles.

~~~
Lambdanaut
The author ACTUALLY said "There are two basic kinds of people in this world.",
which would imply that there are variations to these basic forms.

If he had really said what you mis-quoted, you might have some point.

~~~
lightyrs
I stand by my original post.

------
blueprint
Yes, karma definitely exists in reality. It means that what you have done and
what happens to you all accumulates inside you. It continually exerts an
influence on you and tries to control you – it appears through your actions
even though you don't want it to. Karma is always trying to conquer the self.
That's why in order to truly live your own life instead of following the
orders of Karma you need awakening and determination.

Here's a particularly illuminating article on karma. I hope you decide to have
a look and read with some interest:
[http://www.members.tripod.com/tathagata2000/enlightenment_wh...](http://www.members.tripod.com/tathagata2000/enlightenment_what_is_karma.htm)

