
Meet the Hackers Who Want to Jailbreak the Internet - SonicSoul
http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/?mbid=social10797854
======
kyllo
Most people commenting in this thread are missing the point. This is about
giving you the ability to put your personal data on a server that you control
first, and then having the ability to push it to cloud services you don't
control (like Facebook, Twitter, Google apps) easily and selectively through
those services' APIs. That way, from your perspective, all the "clouds"
revolve around your personal server and they are all interchangeable and
disposable to you, because you have all the data on your box and can just
choose to push it somewhere else instead. It means you can use all the cloud
services, but are no longer dependent on any one of them for storing your own
data.

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rossj
There are some interesting interviews with people working on re-decentralising
the web at [http://redecentralize.org/](http://redecentralize.org/) \- and
there are more lined up for the coming weeks. Definitely worth a watch if you
have the time.

~~~
unhammer
[https://unhosted.org/](https://unhosted.org/) is also interesting

~~~
rossj
Just in case you didn't see it before - github.com/rossjones/alternative-
internet has a list of platforms,protocols and suchlike that are in this sort
of area.

~~~
jaytaylor
[https://github.com/rossjones/alternative-
internet](https://github.com/rossjones/alternative-internet)

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dobbsbob
Namecoin does a better job of jailbreaking the internet away from government
controlled TLDs. There's already plenty of open source twitter and fb clones
but one that runs over Gnunet would be interesting.

The not-so pocket sized server is cool and all, but it's running on what is
essentially a blackbox with tightly sealed patents. Might as well just write
an Android server in a dalvik VM and host off your phone what's the difference
if we are going the blackbox route.

~~~
claudius
> They cobbled it together using a Raspberry Pi, a portable hard drive, and
> the Camlistore software built by Fitzpatrick and Slatkin.

Do tell, how could something be _less_ black-boxy than that?

~~~
dobbsbob
Something with at least hardware documentation. Pi is a bunch of binary blobs
so might as well just make Android webservers, at least it will be a pocket
sized bunch of sealed patents

~~~
nl
_Pi is a bunch of binary blobs_

Wow, you have pretty high standards!

High standards are good.

A running platform is also good.

Raspberry Pi has 2 binary blobs - the boot blob & the GPU blob. Personally,
I'd prefer if they weren't needed.

But I think the availability of a cheap, widely deployed and capable computing
platform is more important.

Yes, there are other choices that could be made for the hardware. People
should be encouraged to explore those other options.

Nevertheless I think the decision to build something on RaspberryPi is a good
one.

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regis
Why are people so interested in recreating a 'more open X' (where X is
something like dropbox, skype etc...)? When these people could actually be
iterating on these ideas and creating something different. Is it because there
is lots of money/publicity surrounding this new found interest in "openness"
or do these people actually believe that this is the most important thing to
be working on? I am just trying to imagine what kind of new openness we could
create if we began thinking outside of the framework that current applications
provide already.

This is not not to say that they're not doing enough, but it's just a question
that's been bouncing around in my head lately.

~~~
bslatkin
Here's my take on why open standards matter (from March '12):

[http://www.onebigfluke.com/2012/03/diversity-powers-
growth-w...](http://www.onebigfluke.com/2012/03/diversity-powers-growth-why-
open.html)

\- Open standards are important because they promote competition and
diversity.

\- The opportunities of today exist because someone in the past thought about
the long term.

\- Open standards are an investment in our collective future.

~~~
regis
I totally agree, this isn't necessarily about the projects listed in the
article. It is more of a reaction against the over abundance of announcements
like "it's like X but open!" without really providing any significant openness
over google drive or whatever it's attempting to replace.

After checking out the projects mentioned in the article I would definitely
say that they don't fall into this category.

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Bjoern
Jailbreak the Internet? The first talk of the video link below goes in that
direction giving some real ideas. Discussing GNUnet and Psyc2.

Rather technical.

"You broke the Internet. We're making ourselves a GNU one." by Christian
Grothoff, Carlo von Lynx, Jacob Appelbaum, and Richard Stallman.

[https://gnunet.org/internetistschuld](https://gnunet.org/internetistschuld)

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bifrost
What does this have to do with the internet? This is more about what people do
with it, than how the internet actually works...

Frankly .onion sites are a bit more impressive than someone cobbling together
a NAS and some random software.

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bslatkin
If you hack on this stuff, try to attend IndieWebCamp next year (or in the UK
in September):

[http://indiewebcamp.com/](http://indiewebcamp.com/)

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peterwwillis
I'm so glad we're going back to the days of hosting a blog on your ADSL
connection. Yay, freedom for my dat...! Shit, connection went out again.

A little black box with a big hard drive and a web server on it? It's called a
NAS, they've been around for a while. Can someone explain to me how such
talented people can come up with such stupid ideas?

~~~
oscargrouch
maybe not the perfect solution, but at least they are trying to do something
about it, and not just being a meek lamb

also being a techstar has its drawbacks.. people always spect more from them..
but technology its all about iteration, community, cooking ideas and getting
back to the sketchpad to try something better..

we SHOULD do something about it, and i take my hat off, to whoever its trying
to do something.. techstar or not.. brilliant or not..

the web has a tendency to centralization and one that is creating big black-
hole titans that swallows everyone in between..

economically this means the beginning of end of the middle class, and a
greater abism between the super rich and the poor..

so kudos to everyone trying to do something about that, and not just using
because its fine.. there are "traps and tricks" in all of those free services
that we happilly use for free

storage is cheap.. processor is cheap.. computers(pc/phones/tables) are
getting cheaper and faster so why are we using and depending of obscure clouds
that much?

~~~
superuser2
>computers(pc/phones/tables) are getting cheaper and faster so why are we
using and depending of obscure clouds that much?]

Because the infrastructure to support high availability is expensive and most
efficient at scale. Proper backup, disaster recovery, redundant HVAC,
redundant power, waterless fire suppression, real access control (not the $15
Kwikset lock on your front door), server-class hardware which is built to last
for years rather than fly off the Best Buy shelves and get abandoned as far as
updates within months like most Android phones. All of these things are
expensive and difficult and necessary to support the model of computing
currently in place.

I'm excited about renaissance of protocols like BitTorrent which are tolerant
of failures of individual nodes, but you can't just take current client-server
computing, move the server to your shitty residential ADSL connection, and
call it a day. "Trying to do something" in this manner is actively harmful
because people are going to lose data.

We need entirely different (not necessarily new) protocols and paradigms to
have a truly decentralized Internet, and they aren't exactly mature yet.

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diminoten
Bigger guys may make you dependent, but smaller guys are easier for bullies to
push around. I for one am not sold yet on the idea that these larger companies
enjoy sharing data with the US government, and so I still think they're
looking for ways to not have to do that if they're not literally compelled to.

~~~
wavefunction
Small guys can run away when they need to though. Just keep it cheap and
disposable and abandon-able, like a image of your system you can spool up on
plug n play commodity servers / free hosts and let the bullies spend their
resources.

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oscargrouch
now theres a label for the type of working i am doing.. "indie web", despite
im doing something completely different, but with the same basic intentions..

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jaytaylor
Do any of you know what/where their IRC channel information is? I'm interested
in checking it out.

~~~
bslatkin
I believe it's #indiewebcamp on freenode

[http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC](http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC)

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AsymetricCom
Sounds more like they're making their own subtle jail on top of existing
infrastructure. I wouldn't expect much from Wired, post 1999, anyway.

