

My app has to dodge around government regulation. It shouldn’t have to. - untog
http://blog.untogether.co.uk/post/18383101195/my-app-has-to-dodge-around-government-regulation-it

======
MBlume
This is simple. The startup community needs a lobby, a real one.

We need a lobby to push for:

liberalized IP policy, including 28-year copyrights, an end to software
patents, penalties for introducing frivolous copyright suits, an end to anti-
circumvention, etc.

Looser immigration policies. If your IQ's above 130, you get in. If you have a
graduate degree, you get in. If you've started a successful company before,
you get in.

And mitigation of various kinds of red tape and local regulation like this.

A lobby like this would help to create a more vibrant, more productive startup
community, and so ideally, the firms that benefit from same, especially the VC
firms, would cooperate to fund it.

We can talk all we want about getting the money out of politics, but until
that's done, I think we need to play ball. This is how things get done. This
is how we get what we all want.

~~~
paulhauggis
"Looser immigration policies. If your IQ's above 130, you get in. If you have
a graduate degree, you get in."

Many serial killers have high IQs and there are many average-IQ people without
graduate degrees that still deserve a chance at a better life. Some of the
smartest people have done some of the worst things in human history.

Frankly, I'm sick of this elitist point-of-view.

~~~
MBlume
> Many serial killers have high IQs and there are many average-IQ people
> without graduate degrees that still deserve a chance at a better life. Some
> of the smartest people have done some of the worst things in human history.

Irrelevant. I'm looking for simple, cheap, easy wins, without a lot of
administration. If you're smart, letting you into the country is probably an
easy win. I'm not saying scrap the existing immigration system, just have
these extra holes in it.

~~~
paulhauggis
"If you're smart, letting you into the country is probably an easy win."

Many smart people waste away in academia and don't contribute very much to the
economy. I know a lot of smart people that are doing absolutely nothing with
their life.

It's not a very good determining factor for an "easy win".

------
untog
To attempt to clear up some confusion that has arisen in the discussion here:
it wasn't my intention to come across as someone whining about how the
government is ruining my idea. It isn't- as I mentioned in the article, I have
plenty of avenues available to me. But yes, my life would be easier if the law
were different.

My larger point was that most startups simply don't have the time or resources
to dedicate to lobbying governments of any type for change, so instead we just
have to dodge around our problems. That puts us behind the giant corporations
who bend the law to their will.

~~~
MBlume
As I said, an individual startup doesn't have the resources, but collectively
we can -- and absolutely should -- find ways to get these laws changed.

------
untog
The app I've been working on is held back by what I believe to be outdated
thinking. I'd be interested to know what other HNers think about fixing
something like this- is it even possible? Worth the effort?

~~~
BarkMore
You are being held back by the rent-seekers who benefit from the current laws.
It's not about outdated thinking.

~~~
saucetenuto
This is the part I don't follow - who benefits from this? Yellow Cab? How? It
seems like "easier communication between service seekers and service
providers" would be a win for everybody.

~~~
gee_totes
This is not necessarily a win for everybody.

I can foresee a situation where cabs start to favor only bookings/hailings
from this app, since the fares (i.e. people getting into the cab) clearly have
money (since they have a smartphone) and will hopefully tip better.

The rest of us schmucks trying to hail a cab the old-fashioned way will be out
of luck, since all the cabs will be waiting to pick up a smartphone fare.

------
johnq2
I like your app, BUT : 1\. You have not done your homework on the market
before creating it, if you want to monetize it you should have and you
probably should have targeted Europe where it's legal to book a cab. 2\. How
do you convince your app users that it's better to use the app than to call?
App is free, calling costs - may work, may not. App needs internet, calling
does not. That's where marketing comes in. Don't try to find guilty, try to
find how to fix it. Good Luck.

~~~
untog
To be clear: I did my homework, I knew the situation when I started, and I'm
not trying to find the government guilty of anything, other than natural
inertia.

As I said in the post, it's perfectly legal to book a private car service in
New York. So it's not like the idea is a lost cause- I just have to work with
private car services. What I'm saying is that having to exclude yellow cabs is
a disadvantage to me, the yellow cab drivers, and passengers. Forcing people
to stand out on street corners is not very forward-thinking.

~~~
gee_totes
_Forcing people to stand out on street corners is not very forward-thinking._

But it is democratic, since everyone has an equal chance at hailing a cab.

~~~
gwright
I think you forgot the smiley face. Well, I hope you forgot the smiley face.

Democratic principles shouldn't be blindly applied to every possible
situtation in pursuit of an über-equality utopia.

------
haliax
If the yellow cab drivers have phones on them as well, you could try to make
"psuedo hails" using bluetooth or something where if you drive by a taxono.my
user who has hailed a cab both apps ping, and let the users know. Then you
could just have the drivers app show a heatmap of hails throughout the city to
get them in the right places.

------
chrislaco
Or. Operate the startup outside of the country in question. Regulations be
damned. Innovate first. Ask forgiveness later. Be noisy about governments
trying to squash innovation in the press. They hate that.

------
deathToCanibals
Why can't you just push the location of people needing a taxi to all the cabs,
rather than pushing it to a specific one? Would that still be considered a
booking?

------
propercoil
Well Ron Paul is the solution right there - No government and regulation
tyranny. research..

------
fleitz
Stop asking for permission, start begging for forgiveness.

You can't "book" a cab from your app?

Fine, put a button to 'call' the cab.

You can't "book" in advance, use the data from your app to guess the time
someone should call in advance to have a cab for when they need it, then send
them an alert to make that call, along with aforementioned link.

You mention livery services for "booking" when a user needs something booked
send them to a livery service.

There are a million solutions to your problems, you just have to find them.
Also, avoid jurisdictions with regulations contrary to your business model.

------
thinkcomp
Not sure how it works in the UK, but you can always sue over a law in the US
if you really disagree with it and have a good reason for why it doesn't make
sense. That's what we're doing.

------
mjwalshe
Well as some one once told me "In some bits of America its still a bit like
that" And in Chicago its "a Lot Like that"

What I think (and ime not going to be popular here) the USA needs is to totaly
reorganise local govement far to may things are decided at too low a level for
a modern and efficient state.

This meens radicaly doing away with "states rights" it makes no sense to have
multiple sales and local income taxes - think how much monney would be saved
by having a single sales tax.

~~~
angersock
The problem here is that the local government is being too inflexible--that's
not to say, however, that a higher-level one would be any better. I assure
you, the problems in getting a federal change of policy--were it necessary--
are far in excess of figuring out a city.

If the market really cared enough, they could likely sway the local
government. If the product was good enough to justify that, then it would
likely happen. Any failings thus probably stem from some mismatch in market
and product.

~~~
untog
_If the market really cared enough, they could likely sway the local
government. If the product was good enough to justify that, then it would
likely happen._

What/who is "the market", though? You can't really get traction behind an idea
that is impossible to demonstrate. Users could get passionate about a useful
service that is taken away from them, but it's a lot more difficult to get
anyone passionate about something they've never had, and can't try.

