
Russia to reveal location of US military satellites in free space database - Jerry2
https://www.rt.com/news/347744-russia-satellites-database-norad/
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dingaling
Most of them are already tracked by amateurs who determine and discuss their
orbits on open mailing lists, so this data won't be a huge revelation.

What will be more useful is a source of derived orbital elements for non-
classified satellites; NORAD provide sets of data but about ten years ago
added a licensing restriction that forbids redistribution of that data or
calculations based thereon. A second source without that nonsense would be
very useful.

[https://www.space-track.org/documentation#/user_agree](https://www.space-
track.org/documentation#/user_agree)

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willjfield
For part of my master's thesis, I made a real-time visualization using some of
the TLE data you mention from an amateur who compiles it. Should geolocate you
and show which ones you have a line of site to you at the moment.(Sorry it's
not mobile
friendly.)[https://explorejs.space/demos/cSats/](https://explorejs.space/demos/cSats/)

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Hupriene
That's awesome. Thanks for sharing.

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jessaustin
Yet another example of the dubious benefits of secrecy: the Russians know all
about these satellites, from launch time on. Meanwhile civilian work is made
more complex and dangerous so the MIC can keep the information away from their
_true_ enemies: the taxpaying public.

~~~
dogma1138
Russians aren't the only one who are targeted by geospatial surveillance, and
some countries and organizations that are don't have the same intelligence and
space monitoring capabilities that the Russian have.

I don't see how this makes civilian work any more complex or dangerous since
all space launches in the world are cleared through UNOOSA this isn't like
SpaceX nor anyone is going to run into a US KH super platform on the way up.

So while it is true that you can't keep your spy satellites a secret (for long
at least) from nation state like Russia, smaller countries and various non-
state actors that are the targets of surveillance can be kept in the dark, the
GRU doesn't brief north Korea or ISIS.

This is a dick waving contest between the US and Russia a kin to the cold war,
but claiming that this information is held because the public are the enemies
of the state is ridiculous. While the location of space based intelligence
collection platforms does intrigue me I don't see any more justification for
it to be public than to have every surveillance drone and military aircraft
appear on flightradar24.com.

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jessaustin
Can we imagine a scenario by which some entity that USA might wish to observe,
and which might want to avoid said observance, might be capable of using this
information to do so, but wouldn't be capable of obtaining this information in
the first place without the actions described in TFA?

I can't. First of all, there are numerous satellites parked over the relevant
portions of the Middle East. That was true before ISIS began, and ISIS has
never been unaware of that fact. Second, if some group operating in e.g.
Indonesia wanted to make sure they weren't observed in some particular
operation, there's no plausible way for them to go from this spreadsheet to a
schedule for their operation. Maybe they could hire a black hat astronautical
engineer?

 _I 'm_ not an astronautical engineer, but presumably the USA MIC hasn't given
some UN agency the secret formula? So, every time a civilian orbital maneuver
is planned there is some sort of multi-party telephone-game protocol?
Eliminating that would seem to result in less complexity and more safety.

~~~
dogma1138
There are countries and entities that do take precaution against EOS but do
not have up to date information on all platforms, if you want to take the
middle east for example then tactical intelligence from time sharing on EROS-B
for example which is a civilian EOS which several governments around the world
use also for intelligence gathering purposes is considerably poorer than using
platforms with less predictable position when targeting local nation states
and non-state actors.

As far as safety goes the UN coordinates with all the government and non-
government bodies around the world regarding space matters, the process is
complex but like anything to do with space it's complex for the right reasons
it needs to be thorough and methodical even if there was a database of all US
non-civilian platforms online no one in their right mind would use it to base
orbital maneuvers that would be considerably less safe than the process we
have now unless you want to bet your multi-million dollar platform on how
accurate or up-to date that information is.

Everything regarding space is planned months if not years up front, and every
time it's verified and validated by coordinating with multiple national and
international agencies, when it comes to space one thing you don't do is "save
time".

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jmiserez
> _While the catalog does not disclose data on America’s own military or dual-
> use satellites (...), it does feature Russia’s defense satellites._

So the Russian satellites are on the US list, and the US satellites are on the
Russian list. Fun!

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blackguardx
The article talks about using telescopes, which is odd. NORAD uses a radar
system designed to provide early warning of Russian ICBMs to track satellites.
I assumed Russia would use a similar system.

~~~
flashman
Well, radar will get you a location, but lacks detail. Russia's Krona
system[1] apparently uses radar to find the satellites, then illuminates them
with a laser so that optical telescopes can get imagery and precise
measurements.

[1][http://geimint.blogspot.com.au/2008/06/soviet-russian-
space-...](http://geimint.blogspot.com.au/2008/06/soviet-russian-space-
surveillance.html)

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cesis
Isn't there already several other open databases available?

