
Dieselgate: How exactly did the software know the car was being tested? - lollipop25
I just got curious on this Dieselgate scandal. I read that VW used software to check if the car was under test conditions. I know that a car has a bazillion sensors, controllers and such but...<p>How exactly did the software know it was in a test environment?<p>I&#x27;m still catching up with the story, but I&#x27;m more interested on how the software managed to detect the test environment. Is the test environment really so controlled that one could just simply pop in code to tell the car to cheat whenever sensors picked up the right combination?
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JorgeGT
Researcher here, you got it right on your last paragraph. For instance this is
the European Cycle that is tested:
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/Ne...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/New_European_Driving_Cycle.svg/640px-
New_European_Driving_Cycle.svg.png?1443308629041) As you can see it is very
well defined. Other tricks that are rumored are very simple: you can see the
cycle last 20 min. Just instruct the controller (ECU) to change the parameters
only after 20 mins of powered state.

In any case, you must know that all those practices were very well known by
United States regulators, the term "defeat device" for instance appears in
regulation since at least 2007:
[http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2007-02-26/pdf/E7-2667.pdf#p...](http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2007-02-26/pdf/E7-2667.pdf#page=134)

 _§ 86.1809–10 Prohibition of defeat devices. (a) No new light-duty vehicle,
lightduty truck, medium-duty passenger vehicle, or complete heavy-duty vehicle
shall be equipped with a defeat device. (b) The Administrator may test or
require testing on any vehicle at a designated location, using driving cycles
and conditions that may reasonably be expected to be encountered in normal
operation and use, for the purposes of investigating a potential defeat
device_

As you can see it was known that a) defeat devices existed and b) the way to
catch them was to try different, random cycles more close to real conditions.
The question is, if this was a well known problem and they knew the way to
test their existence (and given there were millions of cars on the street with
these systems), why start the big scandal precisely now?

By the way, apart from more random, realistic cycles, upcoming European
regulation introduces driving tests where the exhaust gases will be collected
and compared with the lab test, and only a certain % difference will be
permitted.

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UnoriginalGuy
> The question is, if this was a well known problem and they knew the way to
> test their existence (and given there were millions of cars on the street
> with these systems), why start the big scandal precisely now?

From what I understand the scandal was started after Europe funded research at
an American university (since they were developing systems to measure
emissions during normal driving that didn't rely on the car's computer
output). The results were published a few years ago, which got reported to the
US and European authorities, and it is big news right now simply because the
fine/punishment phase is in motion (nobody cares about dry research results).

Up until recently (last three-ish years) the technology to measure emissions
from the tailpipe during driving weren't readily available. They trusted the
computer.

~~~
tmuir
I wonder if any hedge funds cashed in on last weeks 30% drop in VW stock as a
result of this information being available for the last year and a half.

~~~
nvusuvu
I was wondering how to take advantage of situations like this that arise in
the future. Be mindful of college level research of corporations.

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8thcross
As per what i have read, its a simple combination of front wheels turning,
while back wheel at rest plus no steering wheel activity. There may be other
factors - but this is good enough to say that car is being tested.

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stephenr
> Dieselgate

Please don't use this name. Its ridiculous that the media use the "gate"
suffix to indicate a scandal of some sort, I'd like to think HN
reads/commenters can be _slightly_ more intelligent than the average crowd-
pleaser journalist.

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creature
I don't think there's any suggestion that VW used these techniques, but there
are other indicators that could be used. Things like "If the car door or
bonnet is open while the engine is running, switch to low-emissions mode", or
using the GPS information (a GPS-measured velocity of 0 with an engine running
in gear suggests that the car's on rollers).

I've heard stories of cars using these techniques to cheat in tests, but I
couldn't find any reliable citations.

~~~
lollipop25
> a GPS-measured velocity of 0 with an engine running in gear suggests that
> the car's on rollers

Heck! Even if I don't use velocity or gears sensors, the fact that the car is
in a testing area (given by GPS) might be enough to switch to low-emissions
mode. But I would need the GPS location of every testing location.

