
Lyft Carpool: A New Way to Commute - levpopov
http://blog.lyft.com/posts/meet-lyft-carpool
======
chockablock
No driver background checks or vehicle inspections, per the TOS [0]:

"The Carpool Platform is operated by Clara Rides, Inc., not Lyft, Inc. Clara
Rides, Inc. is not a Transportation Network Company or a transportation
service. Clara Rides and Lyft do not conduct criminal background checks on
Carpool Drivers, perform vehicle inspections on vehicles used for Carpool
Rides, or provide insurance for Carpool Rides."

[0] [https://www.lyft.com/carpool/terms](https://www.lyft.com/carpool/terms)

~~~
brandonmenc
A serious question to everyone complaining about uninsured drivers: do you ask
your friends for proof of insurance before getting in their cars as
passengers?

Do any insurance companies sell passenger insurance to cover accidents when
you're the passenger in a car with an underinsured driver?

~~~
massysett
I have health insurance, so treatment for my bodily injuries is covered.
Someone else is driving, so if his negligence results in a wreck I generally
won't be liable to the other driver. I won't be responsible for fixing his
vehicle.

That covers most garden-variety car wrecks, so there is little need to be
concerned about my friend's insurance. I suppose if I were really on top of
things, I would ask my friends for proof of insurance anyway, because maybe I
would want to sue him for pain and suffering, which his insurance might pay
for (my health insurance would not pay for that, or for lost wages.)

Never seen "riding around in someone else's underinsured car" insurance.
Typical umbrella policy wouldn't cover that unless I'm negligent. I suppose I
could get disability coverage which might help protect against the lost wages
from getting injured in someone else's car.

~~~
muzz
> I have health insurance, so treatment for my bodily injuries is covered

No, that's not how it typically works. If the injury was caused by car
accident, your insurer will likely deny the claim. This happened to me when
someone rear-ended me and I went to the ER to get checked out; I didn't want
to file a claim with the other party's auto insurance but had to for payment
of the ER visit.

~~~
massysett
Sorry your insurance is crummy. Mine explicitly says it will pay for my care
and that my insurance company can seek damages from those who may be liable
and their insurers.

~~~
muzz
In California, health insurance is not required to and can ask for it back.

From the insurance dept website
[http://www.insurance.ca.gov/01-consumers/105-type/95-guides/...](http://www.insurance.ca.gov/01-consumers/105-type/95-guides/01-auto/auto101.cfm#ifyouhaveanaccident)
:

"If I am injured in an accident, does my health insurance pay anything?

Usually, your health insurance pays for your immediate medical care. Then your
health insurance company will typically try to get back money from your auto
insurance or the other person's auto insurance. When one insurance company
tries to get money back from another insurance company, it is called
subrogation."

~~~
bjterry
That situation only exists because the other party had auto insurance. If they
didn't have auto insurance and you didn't have auto insurance that covered it,
your health insurance policy would have covered it.

------
mikeryan
A few notes on items I find a bit strange here.

1\. To get from the East Bay to SF in the carpool lane you need 2 passengers
(3 people total - or a car that only seats two)

2\. The East Bay already has a pretty nice system for this called the Casual
Carpool which is probably its biggest competition. The Casual Carpool is just
a bunch of spots (usually BART Stations) where drivers can stop and pick up a
few other passengers to get in the carpool lane across the bridge and
_usually_ the passengers chip in a few bucks for the toll. This system is
pretty good and works well considering the need for 3 folks in the car to get
carpool lane access. The Lyft model is a lot harder to coordinate picking up
3. The biggest issues with Casual Carpool are that there's no revenue for the
driver and it's mostly one way (inbound in the morning). The eastbound after
work system is not as efficient, there's a common pickup area downtown with
stops indicating destinations but it can be hit or miss on whether passengers
are there when you're ready to go home.

Long and short of it I think this is a Peninsula solution not really an East
Bay to SF one yet.

~~~
jcranmer
The largest such system I'm aware of is slugging in the DC area (particularly
along the 95/395 corridor to Pentagon/downtown): at various parking lots, a
driver pulls up to a line of people, says they have 3 slots and is heading to
the Pentagon (say), and 3 people pile in and get to ride the HOV to the
Pentagon.

It's entirely free, almost entirely grassroots (governments occasionally ask
that the pick-ups/drop-offs move slightly), and remarkably safe (1 known
incident in >30 years). Having grown up in the area, I was surprised when I
casually made reference to it to someone not in the area and they had no idea
what I was talking about.

~~~
tricolon
Having never spent more than a few days in DC, the only reason I know about
slugging is because of "Slugline" in House of Cards.

------
schwap
Neat that a "ridesharing" company is finally helping people actually share
rides.

I imagine something like this would be a lot easier for municipal governments
to swallow, compared to the current "not a cab but yes it's actually a cab"
model.

~~~
randyrand
They already had lyft line. That's not a cab model.

~~~
schwap
Not exactly but it is pretty "cab-like", in that the driver is still
independent of the passengers. It's basically an easier way of sharing a cab.

------
joshandrews
We've been doing this in Vancouver, Canada for 5 weeks now
([http://sparerides.com](http://sparerides.com)). It is great to see another
player doing true ridesharing. Lyft actually started with a business model
similar to this ([http://zimride.com](http://zimride.com)) but saw much
greater growth with the taxi model so rebranded and pushed that instead.

While HOV lanes are a large incentive for drivers, we have seen that many of
our drivers here in Vancouver are looking to either cover the cost of parking
and driving, or meet new people. These solutions generally work best in dense
metro areas with relatively good public transit (I.E you have to be able to
get home, if you can't find a carpool home).

Also interesting, Uber is not allowed to operate under the existing Vancouver
taxi regulation. Because carpooling does not provide an income to the driver,
the car is not considered a vehicle-for-hire, making systems like Lyft carpool
and Spare Rides legal in Vancouver and I'm guessing many other cities that
have pushed Uber out. This is a really good way for Lyft to grab those markets
before the regulation changes.

~~~
Cyph0n
What do you mean by "carpooling does not provide an income to the driver"? I
honestly wouldn't pick up people without compensation, especially for longer
distances. So you just charge riders and the driver gets nothing?

I'm curious because I'm planning on starting a similar venture in my home
country.

~~~
joshandrews
Sorry, the correct word to use there would be profit. The driver does get
paid, just not enough to exceed the operating cost of the vehicle and parking,
which in Vancouver is roughly $0.58 per km.

~~~
Cyph0n
That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

------
soyiuz
It is good to see Lyft moving towards a more civic minded direction in their
business model. A lot of "disruption" talk is simply code for deregulation.

------
jsadow
I'm the CPO and Co-Founder of Scoop automated carpooling - www.takescoop.com.
I wanted to jump in with a few thoughts.

It's exciting to see one of the ridesharing/ride-hailing companies focus their
attention on where the pain is still high - the commute. 100M Americans still
wake up everyday, grab their keys, and get in their car to drive to work. On
average, that drive lasts at least 25 minutes.

The negative impact of driving alone is enormous - congestion in our
communities, $250B out of our pockets every year, and a huge toll on the
environment. Autonomous vehicles, hyperloops, or whatever the future has in
store might change this - but not for a while.

So, carpooling is obviously something I've spent a lot of time thinking about
- and I think Lyft is doing some smart things here. I like the Rider
scheduling buckets. We do something similar with Scoop - every trip is
scheduled with "time slots" that help align Rider and Drivers' schedules.

And of course, Lyft's availability around the Bay Area is nice. For Scoop, we
really focus on partnering with employers and 511
([https://carpool.511.org/](https://carpool.511.org/)) to strategically open
"routes" into different Bay Area cities. We do this carefully, to ensure that
commuters can really rely on their local Scoop community for a carpool every
single day.

There are also some important ways that carpooling is really different from
ride-hailing, and it'll be interesting to see how Lyft, Uber, etc. address
that. For example, who you go with really matters. 45 minutes in a car isn't
the same as 10. How you get home really matters too. In the case of no
carpool, a regular Lyft or Uber with surge-pricing will make for an unhappy
commuter.

Our team of 13 works really hard every day to try to take cars off the road,
and are excited by anyone who wants to try to do that too. To that end, we
just opened up our newest route today to tackle congestion in a new community.
Starting today, you can schedule commute trips with Scoop into Palo Alto. All
trips to Palo Alto are just $1 - sponsored by the Palo Alto TMA and Stanford
Research Park. And we're excited to have great partners like the Palo Alto
Chamber of Commerce and companies like Tesla, Palantir and HP.

PS: If you do want to try to help, we're hiring! Email us at
jobs@takescoop.com or visit
[https://angel.co/takescoop/jobs](https://angel.co/takescoop/jobs).

------
jedberg
I wonder what this will do the the already established causal carpool for
crossing the bay bridge. At the moment, it's free for riders, the benefit for
the driver being that they skip the toll.

On the upside, I had a friend who was a rider, and had lots of stories of
terrible drivers. Once he witnessed the driver hit a person and then drive
off, and then drop off my friend. My friend called the police, but I guess
with Lyft carpool this type of thing wouldn't happen, or at least not as
often?

~~~
ProAm
> Once he witnessed the driver hit a person and then drive off, and then drop
> off my friend. My friend called the police, but I guess with Lyft carpool
> this type of thing wouldn't happen, or at least not as often?

Lyft would probably rate the drivers like they do normally and stop allowing
them to drive for the carpool. You can't prevent accidents like that, but you
can prevent those people from doing it again with your service fairly easily.

------
justinhj
I can see drivers/passengers travelling together for weeks or months at a
time. So you'd probably just want to quit Lyft and enter a private
arrangement. Is there anything in Lyft's business model to prevent or mitigate
this?

~~~
jtokoph
It says riders pay up to $10 per ride and drivers get up to $10 per ride. This
makes me think that Lyft won't be taking a cut from the carpool rides. If
that's the case, then Lyft is also providing a super easy way to pay the
driver without having to remember to bring cash.

~~~
loco5niner
The "up to" parts make me think they will be taking a cut ;-)

~~~
Cookingboy
Well the math says they won't. If the most a rider can pay is $10, and if Lyft
takes a cut, then the max the driver will receive will be less than $10, which
is not what they say.

~~~
thezilch
It says "drivers earn up to $10 per trip", which means a driver can earn
nothing! Or the rider can pay "from $4-10"; Lyft takes no more than the
rider(s) pay; and the driver takes the rest.

~~~
thrwwyh
The terms of service have a section reserving the right to impose a service
fee. Not sure if there will be a fee at launch.

"Service Fee. In exchange for providing the Carpool Platform, Clara Rides
_may_ assess a service fee on each Carpool Ride (on either or both of the
Carpool Rider or Carpool Driver). The amount of the applicable service fee
shall be communicated to you in writing."

------
assoteric
interesting. didn't lyft start off as zimride which is a carpool app?

[https://zimride.com/](https://zimride.com/)

[http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/29/6000-words-about-a-pink-
mus...](http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/29/6000-words-about-a-pink-mustache/)

~~~
cvburgess
Yes they did, the founder of Lyft gave a speech at SXSW last year on the
evolution of Zimride => Lyft. He said that "the focus of Lyft would continue
to be and always has been reducing the number of empty seats on the road."
(paraphrasing)

------
rdl
I'd probably be willing to do this if they gave me insurance, tied it to the
regular Lyft rating system (and maybe let me set a threshold of 4.5 rider
score or something?) and if the Bay Bridge were a HOV-2 v. HOV-3.

I don't do Casual Carpool right now because of 1) insurance 2) not knowing who
the passengers are 3) not really knowing how to do it.

I hope Lyft will tweak this to work better for my use case. Otherwise, it will
probably be a US-101 solution only.

------
fillskills
How do they handle commutes back? With carpooling to work, that is always my
biggest concern - will I be able to get a ride back.

------
mderazon
Google/Waze is trying something similar
[http://arstechnica.com/cars/2015/07/google-owned-waze-
launch...](http://arstechnica.com/cars/2015/07/google-owned-waze-launches-
ridewith-carpooling-app-on-android/)

------
nguyenbr
Curious if this allows for picking up two passengers so that one can use the
carpool lane in areas that require 3 passengers (notably, the Bay Bridge). If
not, most of the value for both parties is drastically diminished.

------
matt_wulfeck
It seems the natural progression of this service is not paying each other
$5-$10 for a ride, but some sort of service that allowed getting and giving
credits for sharing rides.

Most of us in the bay area have cars (because public transportation is
stinking horrible). I want more to lessen my burden on the environment/save
money on gas by sharing the road. A more natural pair would be to easily find
people who share my commute and then rotate rides.

~~~
puetzk
Why is it preferable for the "credits" to be in units other than currency?

~~~
username223
I'm guessing it's because the OP wants riders to also be drivers, so you don't
end up with one set of people making less than minimum wage to drive another
set of people around (the Uber model). Of course, this won't work with formal
"credits," since people will just create a market exchanging "credits" for
dollars. This is where an informal reputation system shines: people eventually
identify freeloaders, and kick them out of the carpool.

------
TuxerLulz
Since this is limited to one passenger only, would this allow for drivers that
have two-door cars? I'd love to use this all the time if that's the case :)

------
raitom
Sounds really interesting but will it be available for 2 doors cars (like a
mustang)?

~~~
davidd8
Yes

~~~
raitom
Awesome!

------
bbcbasic
I wonder what the ettiquite is when sharing a ride like this? On a bus or in a
cab there is no pressure to make conversation with the other passenger/driver,
although sometimes they may be chatty. In this situation I'd feel pressure to
make conversation with the driver, but what if I want to just read? Would that
be rude?

If I found a good driver I would just deal directly with them because (a) I
know they share my route and (b) I don't need to get to know them again each
time I commute. That would be money off the table for Lyft though.

But I would not use the service because I have kids to drop off and also I may
not finish at the same time every day.

------
pstrazzulla
This was essentially Lyft's first idea right? I believe it was called Zimride?

------
exabrial
Hey Lyft: I have a truck (in addition to my fuel and earth friendly bike).
However, I know a lot of people need help getting stuff home from home depot,
babiesrus, best buy, etc. How about a summon a truck option?

------
open-source-ux
Interesting. This new service from Lyft has some similarities to the ride-
sharing service of French startup company Bla Bla Car. The French company is
doing well in European countries but hasn't launched in the US.

------
huac
I expected a feature similar to UberPool but having the limitations on this
being your daily commute is very cool. Encourages a different set of drivers
and seems friendlier.

~~~
hencq
Lyft's alternative to UberPool is called Lyft Line. Pretty sure they actually
launched that (a bit) before Uber as well.

~~~
infecto
If I recall correctly Lyft made an announcement/small release of Line and
shortly after uber sent out a PR page with a signup form to be notified when
available.

------
api
Really would love this in Orange County, CA. I think it would work very well
in SoCal where there isn't a lot of transit but many routes are fairly
deterministic.

------
codezero
Someone on HN tried to make a similar service in Africa (I can't remember who
you are, sorry!) and found that eventually the commuters just worked together
to commute and cut out the middle-person.

$10 per ride is really not a lot of incentive to drive an hour to the city
with company that you don't want, who may not want to listen to your
music/podcast, or smell your farts, or listen to you sing along to Rebecca
Black.

------
intrasight
How does Lyft expect to maintain a financial middleman relationship in a
carpool relationship? What incentive does a commuter have to keep paying Lyft?

~~~
anamexis
Seems like the advantage here is that you're never beholden to a particular
time, or really any prior agreement. You can check for compatible carpools
whenever and wherever you want.

------
sivanmz
I wanted to join their previous Line effort, but re-read my insurance policy
and found it falls under prohibited commercial driving. The terms now
encompass any participation in online ride-coordinating services. Government
needs to step in because individually the insurers have no incentive to allow
this.

~~~
thrwwyh
Lyft is attempting to get around the limits on commercial activity by only
reimbursing up to the driver's costs (see the TOS section on Reimbursements).
But the terms you describe would seem to preclude even this. Do you mind
saying which insurance company has those terms?

As to the question of incentives, I have pay-by-the-mile car insurance (from
MetroMile, in SF). They would make more money if I took a detour and drove a
little further, or if this service caused me to drive to work more frequently.

------
martinald
I don't drive or live in the bay area. What sort of typical time savings does
the carpool lane give you?

~~~
orlybach
During my morning commute I sit in traffic in the regular (non carpool lane)
for about 5-10 minutes, whereas the carpool lane passes right by with no
traffic. I am only on this stretch for about a mile. So imagine about 5-10
minutes/mile saved as an example.

It really depends on the area though. I am referring to the 85/101 merge near
all the Google exits.

~~~
omginternets
>I am referring to the 85/101 merge near all the Google exits.

I've never stepped foot on the West coast, but I found this sentence really
amusing! I guess I never realized the extent to which GAFA was embedded in the
landscape.

(Nevermind this East-coast pleb. Carry on!)

------
hipaulshi
10USD from San Jose to SF?! AWESOME

------
andy_ppp
Lyft are spending time and money on things like this (it looks great to be
fair) but they can't be bothered to compete with Uber in markets outside of
the US.

Seems a bit of a shame really...

~~~
jedberg
They need to grow within their budget -- Uber has way more funding than they
do.

Lyft is scaling by leveraging technology to be better. Uber is doing that but
also burning cash opening in new markets. The only way Lyft can compete is to
out-innovate Uber.

~~~
deegles
Plus, why waste money validating the market when Uber is doing it for them :)

~~~
api_or_ipa
The early worm gets eaten by the bird. The late one presumably enjoys the
spoils.

~~~
andy_ppp
If I was Uber I would love to have a competitor as callow as Lyft; they seem
willing to cede whole markets up front. For me it's as weak as not
internationalising your software; if you wanna downvoted for this view point
that's fine btw but I stand by it!

EDIT: downvoters, Lyft has $2.01 BILLION dollars in funding... It's ridiculous
to suggest they shouldn't be competing with Uber internationally!

------
atdrummond
Very similar to wunder's current model.
([http://www.wunder.org/en/](http://www.wunder.org/en/))

------
based2
alt eu [https://www.blablacar.co.uk/](https://www.blablacar.co.uk/)

------
martinshen
Any idea if commuter benefits are eligible for this? If so, this sounds better
than my Caltrain ride.

~~~
rosnow
Unlikely unless there is a regulatory change. Commuter benefits, as in an
employer paying for transit with pre-tax dollars, currently exclude vehicles
that can carry less than 7 passengers.

------
randyrand
This would be better if you could ride with the same people or persons on a
regular basis.

Maybe at reduced lyft fees.

~~~
rconti
You could. Just arrange it informally once you get to know the
driver/passengers and ditch Lyft entirely.

Which is a risk a service like this faces.

------
super_dude12
I wonder if people will take this to the airport with airport employees.

------
martinshen
Just tried to sign up but apparently my route isn't ready yet.

------
unusximmortalis
at a cost of $4-10 per ride (I read correctly I hope) does it make financial
sense for commuters in bay area?

~~~
muzz
for the passenger absolutely! it's on par with transbay bus or caltrain fare.
not sure if I would participate as a driver for so little though

~~~
free2rhyme214
In my case it doesn't make sense. Fremont to San Jose is $10 per ride or $400
per month. This cost more than what I pay in gas, insurance and maintenance.
($240 in gas on avg)

------
eveliotc
Awesome! Congratulations on the launch!

------
nickeleres
this service is complete shit. my trip to SFO from Golden Gate Park was 2.5x
the amount of time it could have been, and I saved 7% on my final bill.

lyft is bleeding is dry with this new service, i highly recommend against it.

------
arasmussen
I totally would have used this last year when commuting from SF to Menlo Park.
It's too bad I sold my car and quit my job, would have been fun to meet some
cool people and make some extra money at the same time.

------
viscanti
I liked this when Uber did it last September.
[https://newsroom.uber.com/ubercommute/](https://newsroom.uber.com/ubercommute/)
it's great to see Lyft picking up from a great idea.

~~~
curiousDog
Just curious, do you work for Uber? The rest of your comments seem to be
berating Lyft, haha

~~~
plank
Clicking on viscanti's profile does not seem to reveal any other comments in
this thread...

~~~
TorKlingberg
All of viscanti's submissions are pro-Uber and/or anti-Lyft.

