

Ask HN: Any luck with Stackoverflow careers (employer side)? - andrea_s

I&#x27;ve published an ad for a developer position on stackoverflow careers, but the response has been a bit underwhelming so far... We are offering competitive salary and we do not deviate much from mainstream technologies, so I was definitely expecting more and better candidates. I&#x27;m now thinking about shutting down the ad and go for a more traditional route (monster, indeed, ...), which is a pity because I liked the idea of finding quality developers through the SO platform.<p>Did some of you ever try to advertise a position through SO careers? And how was your experience?
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mrcold
You touched the exact reason I don't use stackoverflow careers. Everybody
there expects higher quality developers and all of them offer a "competitive
salary". Why would I waste my time applying.

If you want better quality, offer something better in return. Offer an amazing
salary. Double the market. Triple. Fuck it, a truckload of money and 72 new
virgins every day. Something that justifies your increased demands and
expectations. Until then, the traditional route works better for me too.
Because I get the exact same "competitive offer", but employer expectations
are normal instead of stupid.

~~~
andrea_s
Perhaps it is not apparent from my original post - I am a developer... I'm
trying to recruit someone for my team. Of course I've specified a salary range
(which is slightly higher than the local average, based on payscale) and I've
been as specific as possible on the technology and benefits...

Sadly all I got so far are applications coming from India and China from
people who clearly didn't read the ad and will just apply to anything.

~~~
peachepe
Can I see your ad?

~~~
andrea_s
Sure, here it is: [http://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs/84952/software-
develop...](http://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs/84952/software-developer-
for-web-based-data-analysis-statwolf-ltd)

As noted elsewhere in the thread, please keep in mind that salaries in Europe
are generally much lower compared to the States :)

~~~
pjungwir
I see you've defended the salary range elsewhere in this conversation, but I
second the feeling that it's low. My rule of thumb is that if an ad/recruiter
says "competitive salary" it probably isn't, and it worked out here also.

I'll take your word for it that in Dublin it's a fair salary---but if you have
a small hiring pool and do nothing to stand out, you shouldn't complain that
SO Careers gives you few leads.

Also I wonder about your expectations. You call this a good salary "for a
developer at the beginning of his career." But you are looking for C#,
Angular, Python, R, Matlab, Mongo, and Hadoop. Yikes! Maybe you should cut it
back to just C#, put "Junior Developer" in the title, and say you'll provide
training time+budget for the other techs. Or leave the requirements and offer
a range that is good for someone with 5-10 years experience.

Sorry to be so critical. Best of luck to you. . . .

~~~
andrea_s
No worries, every constructive feedback is welcome! Although I feel you're a
bit harsh on the requires skills section - only c# and JavaScript are listed
in the "needs", all the rest is divided between "nice to have" and "bonus".

We are definitely going to consider all the suggestions in this thread,
including hiring remote workers and increase our investment to stand out more.

In a way, what is making me doubt the tool is that I haven't received a single
application that I could even consider interviewing - just clearly copypasted
messages from developers on the other side of the world. I guess I'll see it
through when we switch to other candidate search platforms in a few days...

~~~
pjungwir
Re "Nice to have"\---acknowledged, but. . . . The junior programmers I know
will still be intimidated by that list. And the intermediate/senior
programmers will see it and wonder why you're offering so little. So it seems
like the ad is conflicted.

If someone really needs those skills to do the job, then perhaps you can
transform a negative into a positive: "New hire will receive on-the-job
training time and budget in Mongo, Python, and Hadoop." That would attract a
lot of people! And probably adding training is cheaper than raising the
salary.

Once your ad has a clear message, perhaps you can use it in more targeted
venues than SO. Imagine a CS student at Dublin University seeing a flier on
their department bulletin board:

    
    
        Junior C# Developer Wanted
        Excellent Salary
        Will Train in Python, Mongo, Hadoop
    

That's something you might even be able to send to a couple professors and ask
if they could pass it on to any outstanding seniors.

Even better would be to s/Excellent Salary/€35 - 45k/.

~~~
andrea_s
That actually makes a lot of sense, thanks for the pointer!

------
logn
Are you hiring for remote workers? If not, do a search on your city and see
how many jobs come up. If barely any then that's the reason (chicken egg
problem because your local devs have no reason to use the site).

Otherwise consider having one of your developers re-write the job ad (HR-speak
is an instant turnoff). And consider posting the salary range and explaining
the hiring process.

------
cauterized
Best junior hire I made was through SO Careers. Kid w/ ~2yrs experience
looking to transition from corporate to startup job. Hard worker, enthusiastic
learner, awesome team member.

------
dearprakash
I think it depends on your location and demand for the developers with
expertise in that domain.

For instance, Stockolm, Sweden is vibrant city with lots of startups and the
need for good developers are constantly increasing. Stackoverflow careers is
only used by very few companies and as far as i know, there has been good
responses for those ads. I think its acts more like a filter compared to other
routes. IMHO, There is a considerable amount of noise in traditional routes.

~~~
andrea_s
That's excellent advice, thanks a lot for your perspective!

------
loumf
I never used the Ad service, but I did use the resume database and it was
pretty good.

I only recommend it if:

1\. You are in a location with a lot of population or are willing to hire
remote

2\. You are looking for mid-career developers -- (5-7 year range).

If you use it

1\. Only contact people that are active -- I found the passive list not worth
the time

2\. Do a little research on the person and make your opening contact somewhat
customized to them. They are asking for contacts -- they might get a lot, so
you have to stand out.

------
maxsilver
In general, higher quality candidates usually already have regular employment
using "mainstream" tech at "competitive" salaries. Many of these folks have
been burned by fake job leads and/or false promises -- they aren't likely to
spend their time on you unless you give them a good reason to do so.

If you want to recruit those people, you need to offer higher quality
compensation, and make it _exceptionally_ clear that the claims in your job ad
aren't lies or half-truths. Make it clear that you actually want to hire
someone, that you want someone good, that your position is worth having, and
that a candidate isn't wasting their time trying to apply for your position.

\- - -

Salary and benefits are a great place to start. Another option is more
interesting, less mainstream technologies. Another option is increased
flexibility, lower demands, or improved career growth (for example, 35hr work
weeks, or paid conferences, ability to move up within an organization).
There's lots of other interesting ways to do this, but make sure you cover the
fundamentals well first, before getting creative.

\- - -

If you are offering a high quality position -- don't hide it behind vague
words, be _overwhelmingly_ specific so that it doesn't look like you are lying
(because many other companies do).

For instance, Many people will mentally translate "competitive salary" into
"low-ball salary", as that's what most companies use that phrase for. If your
salary is actually competitive, you don't need to hide behind those words, you
should just say the specific dollar range your offering.

Similarly, if you actually offer great benefits, be sure to list them
specifically. "Great benefits" will get mentally translated to "standard or
shitty benefits", because that's what most companies use that phrase for.
"100% employer covered HMO medical, for yourself/spouse/dependents." or "4%
employer match 401k." is always more attractive than "great benefits".

Do this for everything "We value networking and learning" means little, but
writing "the company will pay 100% of the food/lodging/travel/ticket expense
for one tech conference per year of your choosing" is valuable. Writing "we
value work life balance" means little, but writing "we cap the work week at
35hours a week so you can spend more time with friends/family/out-of-work-
activities" is valuable.

\- - -

If you don't feel comfortable listing that information publicly, then you've
identified your biggest roadblock to hiring. Make your offer something your
not ashamed of _first_ , before trying to grab new people ;)

------
bdavisx
Do you have a link to the ad, or can you post it here? Perhaps the problem was
in the wording of your ad...

~~~
andrea_s
There it is: [http://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs/84952/software-
develop...](http://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs/84952/software-developer-
for-web-based-data-analysis-statwolf-ltd)

~~~
poikniok
Wow this makes me glad to not be in Ireland. At best about ~50k a year in USD
offered and you are surprised that people are not clamoring for this
incredible opportunity! New graduates in the states earn about 3 times that.
Anyway hope you find someone for that price, what a bargain!

~~~
andrea_s
No need for the snark - salaries in Europe are a different story compared to
the USA (aside from Switzerland perhaps); you can find some data here:
[http://www.payscale.com/research/IE/Location=Dublin-
Dublin/S...](http://www.payscale.com/research/IE/Location=Dublin-
Dublin/Salary). Of course, you are not the only one wondering what is going on
with that: [http://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-salary-range-of-software-
pro...](http://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-salary-range-of-software-
professionals-in-Europe-considerably-lower-than-in-the-US),
[http://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-salary-of-software-
engineeri...](http://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-salary-of-software-engineering-
jobs-in-the-US-double-that-in-the-UK).

A salary of €40,000 results in a monthly take-home of about €2,540
([http://ie.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php](http://ie.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php))
- plus pension, which is a fairly good salary in a city like Dublin for a
developer at the beginning of his career (of course you would starve in SF
with the same money!).

~~~
mrcold
You ask for 3 years experience in building software. That's not someone at the
beginning of his career, it's mid-level. And a quick google search shows that
the average for C# developers in Dublin is €45,000. So your competitive salary
is actually below the market.

Pay peanuts, get monkeys.

~~~
andrea_s
The point about the salary is valid - if we are looking for someone
outstanding we should be prepared to spend outstanding money.

I would contest the notion that a person who's been developing software for
three years is in the middle of their career, though - even leaving the
semantics aside, I see no way that's not a junior profile.

------
teknologist
I'm a Quality Developer and my employer found me through SOC. Have been happy
with everything so far.

------
brudgers
What's your company's Joel Test score?

The ad should be ask and answer the question, Why would you want to work for
us?

IMO, say 45k. Everyone reading the range knows they will be low balled. Ask
yourself: is it worth saving 10k if it reduces the applicant pool?

Good luck.

------
izolate
I boosted our Stack Overflow careers response quite considerably by posting a
thread to my city's job subreddit with a link to the job. YMMV. Depends on how
attractive your post is :)

