
Apple Arcade – Game subscription service - sahin-boydas
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/03/apple-introduces-apple-arcade-the-worlds-first-game-subscription-service-for-mobile-desktop-and-the-living-room/
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smogcutter
I think a lot of folks looking at this from the point of view of an adult
gamer are missing the point: the audience for this is parents.

For 10 bucks (or whatever) a month you can load the ipad up with games and not
worry about microtransactions or scummy ads targeting your kids. "Curated" is
a signal that can trust age recommendations and not worry about inappropriate
content.

~~~
dustindiamond
Curated like Youtube Kids?

~~~
jedberg
YouTube kids is very much not curated. That's why I don't use it anymore. I
stick with Netflix, PBS, Disney, Hulu, pretty much anyone other than YouTube,
because YouTube is the only one I've found that's dumb enough to claim they
have a kid safe area without actually curating it.

~~~
jimmy1
One can even say it is so egregious they could and should face legal
challenges.

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geddy
Let's just hope this "gaming as a service" stays on mobile devices where it
belongs.

Personally I think it's a decent move by Apple to change the perception of the
App Store in regards to gaming. I waited in line for the original iPhone and
watched the App Store go from quality $2-10 games to the dumpster fire it is
today. The F2P games are all clones of each other and no one will spend a dime
on anything else. A premium service that collects the quality games, respects
user privacy, doesn't run ads, or have IAP is a nice idea to be honest.

I'm a handheld gamer through and through and always have one or two handheld
consoles on me, so this is isn't a service that interests me. But I hope it
can make those paid games more accessible.

Also concerned that the (rumored?) $9.99/month price tag is even remotely
close enough to get these developers paid. Nothing easier about releasing on a
mobile device - the games they showed off look like massive titles.

~~~
endorphone
_Let 's just hope this "gaming as a service" stays on mobile devices where it
belongs._

Microsoft has Game Pass. EA has Origin. Subscribe to both and they're both
fantastic.

~~~
geddy
I typed my response hastily - I'm not against them existing, what I meant was
I hope they never replace consoles. I have no desire to pay a monthly fee to
play hundreds of games.

The game list could be virtually unlimited, but there's always a real, tough
limit - my free time. I can still only play 1-2 games per month and I'd rather
own a copy of it.

Having access to hundreds, to me, means I'll essentially play a game for 5
minutes, then the next one, then the next one... until I've had an hour of no
real experiences. In this backlog culture, it'll be a miracle if anyone ever
finishes a game again.

~~~
coldtea
> _The game list could be virtually unlimited, but there 's always a real,
> tough limit - my free time. I can still only play 1-2 games per month and
> I'd rather own a copy of it._

Didn't say the same thing for music? And yet how many buy CDs or download
music anymore, compared to Spotify/Apple Music/YouTube/etc? An irrelevant (and
aging) minority.

And at least for music it makes sense. One can and do listen to the same album
10 and 20 years on. And of course multiple times in the same year.

Whereas, after someone has finished a game, how often will they come back? And
for what percentage of games? And how would a game subscription would hurt
their occasional "lemme play this again for a couple of hours" trip down the
memory lane?

~~~
kgwxd
It's that last part that keeps me buying exclusively DRM-free, Linux-friendly
PC games. You can't even rely on a console working in the future anymore, or
Windows not updating automatically into incompatibility. If it doesn't work,
best you get is a not-quite-right recreation on a new platform. Worst case,
old YouTube play-throughs are all you have.

------
kruuuder
Apple's poor support for serious gaming in the past makes me doubt that they
understand gamer's needs (casual and serious). They failed over and over to
offer proper "gaming" 3D graphics in Mac OS, they failed to grow GameCenter
into something useful, they failed offering good gaming support for Apple TV.
Too many broken promises. It's the same thing with music: Apple claim for
years they have "Music in their DNA", but neither understand anything about
classical music nor are able to build a good version of iTunes. I bet that
this Gaming service will fail, as did Ping and Apple Musics "Connect".

~~~
fsloth
Casual gamers and kids.

My kids enjoy tremendously Minecraft, Roblox and the Lego franchise games.

None of those require top-end graphics, yet offer engaging gameplay for a
large audience.

~~~
bsamuels
Parent commenter is likely referring to MacOS's trash fire opengl support and
zero Vulcan support.

It's not about getting spectacular graphics on MacOS, it's about even getting
your renderer to work.

~~~
cwyers
This is really fighting the last war, though. Metal exists, and any game that
is running on iOS (which it has to, to be in this) targets Metal. Who cares
about anything else?

~~~
pcwalton
Android has much greater worldwide market share than iOS does (not to mention
PCs, consoles, etc.) None of those support Metal.

So yes, we graphics programmers do care about "anything else".

~~~
eridius
If you're targeting multiple platforms you're likely using an engine rather
than directly programming the GPU anyway. So you don't actually care about
vulcan vs metal, you care about e.g. "Unity".

~~~
pcwalton
Some of us write the engines. :)

~~~
fsloth
Even then the graphical fidelity of the above games is approachable with a
pretty simple set of "standard" shaders and rendering tricks that allow to
limit the graphics api specific code to a manageable chunk. It's not nice, but
it's not like one needs to port the _entire_ engine. And then there are cross
api interfaces like bgfx that allow more or less to share a common data
interface with all of the API backends.

I'm not saying that I like the fragmentation, but on the other hand I'll
happily use win32 system calls when programming windows and posix stuff if
programming unixen. So it's not entirely cut and dried what is the expected
amount of platform specific customization one is expected to be able to deal
with.

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iClaudiusX
It's curious that they pitched this curated experience by openly admiting
their app store experience is terrible and full of scammy games that are
"free" w/ ads and egregious microtransactions. Of course they could fix the
app store they control rather than silo-ing off the good games into a separate
subscription.

~~~
carlob
Well, given the recent spat with Spotify I'm under the impression that they
have more than enough curators to clean up the app store from scammy apps. I
just think they make enough money from microtransaction "whales" not to care

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oh_hello
I worry a bit about the App Store screenshot with the arcade tab. Apple Music
is a permanent part of the Music app UI even when you aren't a subscriber. It
is a bit of an annoyance. Now it appears Arcade will be there to bug me for a
subscription in the App Store. I'm realizing now the News and TV apps will do
the same thing.

These are small annoyances, but it seems like a turn in the wrong direction
overall. For years the Apple ecosystem gave me the feeling that I was paying a
premium, but I got great hardware, great UX, and increasing more software for
free. iOS, Pages, Numbers, iMovie, etc all became free over time. Yes, it all
locked me into their world, but it was a great world largely free of ads an
annoyances. Now that they are adding paid services to so many products they
are eroding that feeling.

~~~
shakermaker83
You can turn off the Apple Music tab in Music. Go to Settings > Music > Show
Apple Music and turn it off :-)

~~~
kdot
With Show Apple Music Off. Play a song in iTunes, tap the name of the
currently playing song, click go to artist, now you're back in Apple Music.

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jatsign
Man I hope most app games become part of this. I hate the amount of BS in the
games my kids play on their iPads. Ads, in game purchases, etc.

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MBCook
I hope they give the developers good terms. I hate not being able to find non-
scam games for my phone. I don’t mind paying for games but I have fewer and
fewer options on iOS as time goes on.

I’ll support this.

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xhruso00
I am pessimistic cause the only way Apple can pay game developers is by use
(played time). This forces developer studios to produce games that one can't
finish.

~~~
jedberg
This is an interesting point if they are paying by play time, but why do you
think that is the only way? Netflix doesn't pay based on play time -- they pay
an upfront fee to license a title for set period of time, regardless of number
of plays. Maybe they'll do the same here.

~~~
jeffchien
That's what a previous article from Bloomberg [1] claimed: "The company would
collect these monthly fees, then divide up the revenue between developers
based on how much time users spend playing their games, one of the people
said. Apple is likely considering popular paid titles on the App Store and
would exclude titles that are free to download but generate revenue via in-app
purchases."

This seems like the definition of a perverse incentive, but if Apple is having
a hand in making some of these games, maybe they can keep it under control.
Or, maybe having users spend more time in Apple Arcade is their plan all
along.

[1] [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-23/apple-
s-r...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-23/apple-s-
reinvention-as-a-services-company-starts-for-real-monday)

------
Corrado
This might be a good thing for my wife and her habit of playing the latest
"grinding game of the month" (ie. CandyCrush, WordSoup, etc.) If we can pay
$10/month so that she can play whatever she want's without having Ads shoved
in her face, sign me up!

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dhruvrrp
A subscription service for iOS games. Is the market for polished phone games
big enough to support a service like this?

Most people I know who still play phone games usually play either really basic
puzzle games or the auto-play esque gacha games that don't require much user
interaction.

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makecheck
The part that worries the hell out of me is the “hand picked”. Screw that: if
the game exists anywhere on the store, and people want to play it, LET THEM
and find a way to pay the developer (e.g. based on time played, or some other
measure). [Edit: If they want to introduce new rules like “no ads”, fine but
any game _meeting the requirements_ should be allowed, not “hand picked”.]

Otherwise, I can tell you right now what will happen: most developers will be
(further) screwed by Apple’s Latest Arbitrary Hidden Process. And of course,
big important devs will continue to be quietly given special treatment.

I have no faith in their “curation” either. Half the time they feature games
that people would easily find anyway, e.g. the latest Angry Birds or Candy
Crush or Lego game.

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djhworld
It would be interesting to know what % of their users play these 'premium
experience' titles, in comparison to Candy Crush and Clash Royale where ads,
microtransactions and data harvesting are incredibly popular

~~~
svachalek
Those are the only evolutionary survivors of the App Store economy. Pay up
front won’t fly anymore, so we need a new model if we want to see games that
are actually fun rather than just addictive. I’d like to see this succeed,
fingers crossed.

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joshstrange
I don't have super high hopes but I do hope this leads to a better situation
than we have now with "free" games chocked full of IAP.

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4ec0755f5522
They didn't announce the price actually.

News+ was $9.99

~~~
sahin-boydas
it leaked actually. but I removed for the title

~~~
4ec0755f5522
It's not launching until Fall. Tech Crunch doesn't know what the pricing for a
service launching 6 months from now will be.

Or do they?

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ksec
A lot of discussions are around the business side and not the technical.
Having the game works across iOS and macOS is something I thought not going to
happen before. That is like saying your Xbox Games works across on your PC.

How will the control works? Are they all based on some Middleware engine?
Unity or Unreal? Are Apple having a hands in those development ( Finally! )?
What kind of support are Apple giving to Game Developers where Apple has for
the past 20 years completely neglect them. New Metal API?

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sneakernets
Apple went from supporting games on the Apple ][ line, to discouraging games
on the Mac, to supporting games again with Pippin, to not really supporting
them on the Mac but still claiming there were games on their platforms (idTech
Rage demo, yaaaay?), to... supporting games again. Is anyone buying this? Is
this thing on?

I realize companies shift, but Apple has done a _lot_ of shifting when it
comes to gaming.

~~~
pram
Steam has a lot of games for OSX. It certainly wasn’t a priority of Apple, but
Mac gaming is a “thing”

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NicoJuicy
All that Apple is launching, honestly, seems like a desperate move for
stockholders by upping more recurring price services. But honestly, I pay less
than 10€ / 5 months through humble bundle and my game library contains 100's
of games.

Apple is trying so hard to make up for the decline of iPhone sales on the back
of other people. Only the big names will get a Payday at the beginning.

Sure, it can work on the beginning. But after a while, your gonna realize that
you spent 120€/year on games. And it's the games you wanted to play on the PC
where you would give > 50€/piece for.

Not some arcade gaming/TV you don't own.

You want to read the NY Times or something else, that hasn't partnered with
apple.

For the TV, it's a good idea, but as the big names ( Netflix, Disney) didn't
partner up. What are you going to pick? Netflix works everywhere ( Chromecast
is nr 1, Android, Xbox, ...). I just think that it won't help them gain enough
subscribers.

And in the end, if they want to keep their 15-30%, their partners will back
out. Because they don't earn enough or you'll cancel your subscription because
there is not enough content.

What they announced the last days, is all about upping a % here or there for
revenue of "services". While I haven't seen anything spectacular about
hardware in the last 5 years. Just look at the specs of the MacBook "pro".
They forgot who made Apple big.

The top post of Apple today on HN is that they released a credit card in
cooperation with Goldman Sachs... Seriously? What about your privacy there. It
reminds me of iAd. We all know how that went.

Edit: ofc here come the downvotes. Please mention why you don't agree

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dbg31415
Apple is great at a lot of things, but qualified to "make gaming even better"
they are not.

Most games, if they are even released on Mac, run worse on a Mac compared to
Windows PC.

And a lot of gaming accessories, like Razer mice, don't even work properly on
a Mac.

~~~
criddell
In 2006 would you have said they were qualified to make a cell phone?

~~~
postalrat
Were they trying to make one for 40 years?

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sahin-boydas
[https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/03/apple-introduces-
appl...](https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/03/apple-introduces-apple-arcade-
the-worlds-first-game-subscription-service-for-mobile-desktop-and-the-living-
room/)

~~~
sctb
Thanks, we've updated the link from [https://techcrunch.com/2019/03/25/apple-
arcade-is-apples-new...](https://techcrunch.com/2019/03/25/apple-arcade-is-
apples-new-cross-platform-gaming-subscription/).

~~~
detaro
Doesn't seem to have worked?

~~~
sctb
Let's see what happens if I actually do it...

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ihuman
Can't see the Apple emoji on any device that's not an Apple device

~~~
sahin-boydas
Ahh. I added Apple in front of it. Thanks

------
jordache
oh great... a bunch of crappy games with touch UI. Finding quality games in
the App Store is like needle in a haystack.

iOS games are mostly at the calibre of killing time on the bus. Never
something you sit down, at home for a dedicated gaming session.

~~~
dlivingston
There are world-class games on iOS, but the critical problem - I think - is
that (i) the interface isn't subtle enough to handle fine movements (unlike
the mouse or analog stick), (ii) the devices are cumbersome and tiring to use
for extended periods of time, and (iii) critically, there is no tactical
feedback for buttons which means that a portion of your brain is always
dedicated to making sure that your thumb is 'over the A button', removing you
subtly but importantly from the gaming immersion.

EDIT: I also want to say that to any lurking iOS game devs - the most critical
thing that seems to separate viral games from standard ones is the leveraging
of a single (or a handful) or _basic multitouch gestures_.

Angry Birds: drag and release

Flappy Bird: tap

Homescapes: swipe

Super Mario Run: tap

et cetra...

Artificial buttons and joysticks are a bad idea - they do not translate well
to a touch-based platform.

~~~
r00fus
With a few adjustments, things like Street Fighter CE work decently.

It's not as satisfying as physical but it isn't horrible.

------
zymhan
Yet another way in which Apple is undercutting developers and preventing them
from profiting in a space where Apple wants to make money.

~~~
onlyrealcuzzo
If you think about it, game studios and movie producers are two of the only
art businesses where something remotely close to the artist is able to make
any money off the actual art.

Musicians only make money off concerts, not selling music. Writers literally
don't make money any more. And I'm not certain if there was ever a time actors
or directors made money -- outside of the EXTREMELY successful.

With Netflix really commoditizing the movie business, I wouldn't be surprised
if the margin on movie production steeply declines in the near future.

So, my point is, yes this sucks. At the same time, doesn't it seem like the
natural order of things?

I hope we can change the natural order of things. But maybe the value really
is in the distribution and not production. As a self-described maker, it sucks
to think that. But maybe it's the truth.

------
bitwize
This is it, folks. Apple's much-anticipated transition into becoming a serious
player in the gaming space.

Nintendo had better watch its back.

~~~
terandle
I dunno, not until Apple releases a first party controller. Otherwise Nintendo
will continue to keep its current market at least.

~~~
sneakernets
Apple would also need to release something near the Switch's price point.
That's not happening anytime soon.

~~~
__david__
An "Apple TV Game Edition" that comes with a bundled controller would be right
in that console price range.

------
rubyn00bie
Apple needs to put a hardware effort behind this to really make it worth
anything... if Apple wants developers to push games to their platforms, the
platforms need to have a stronger focus on games. A huge part of that, IMHO,
would be making the Mac* not a pile of shit for games. That involves two
things (and likely a third):

1\. Complete compatibility layer with DirectX12, fuck everything else. No one
is gonna rewrite their games in Metal to start at this point.

2\. Writing drivers for a few hundred existing graphics cards.

(And the likely) 3. Partner with AMD or NVIDIA to create an intensely powerful
per dollar line of proprietary graphics cards that obliterate the competition.

Apple seems to like an adaptive experience with certain tasks being best
accomplished on certain devices, progressively upgrading features, as the
devices support more complex user input. They generally execute this near
perfectly everywhere _except_ gaming.

I think this is a neat announcement, but will likely fizzle. I really, really,
wish Apple would take gaming seriously. At this point their platforms are
primarily for content consumption, not creation, ignoring gaming comes off as
sort of pompous (though maybe I'm the pompous one, ha).

Maybe with the upcoming modular Mac Pro this will be fixed, but I'm not gonna
hold my breath.

* Apple TV is currently garbage too because the standard outta the box input device (remote) is horrible gaming. They need to ship a system with a sanctioned controller, or make an enclosure for iOS devices.

~~~
ChrisLTD
Your two points only matter if game makers want to roll their own rendering
engines. If you use Unreal or Unity, you’ve got first class Metal support out
of the box.

~~~
bilbo0s
That's the first thing I was thinking reading that comment.

Why, _on earth_ , would I want to write a game in Direct X? Is there really a
compelling reason _not_ to use Unity or Unreal?

~~~
valine
Tighter control over performance, no royalties / no unity logo at launch,
unlimited flexibility, smaller more optimized binaries. It really boils down
to control. I agree though, most people don't need to work with the graphics
api directly.

