
Walmart threatens to cut ties with truckers that also haul for Amazon - sunsu
http://www.livetrucking.com/walmart-tells-their-drivers-that-they-cant-also-haul-for-amazon/
======
__d__
I've posted before about Walmart and I'll post here again. They routinely
would pay us late and underpay invoices on delivered products. Sometimes
racking up to $50-$100,000. The worst part for us is it would be an average of
one year before they would pay it in full. You'd have to submit a claim and
fill out endless paperwork to get paid. It was so hard on us as a company. You
also had to pay them a per package fee that added up to a lot per year. No
other company was doing this.

With Walmart trucking things were worse. If we delivered a product and it
arrived not well, you had limited options on checking the reasons why. Several
times we wanted to pull the temp recorder and just by doing that Walmart
charged us around $1000 if we lost. On several occasions our own temp
recorders were taken off of our product and were lost when we challenged their
rejection of product, and in this case we lost. Even though the product
shipped pristine. When our temp recorders were found on the product it showed
that it did not ship under the terms of the agreement. In this case we won.

Again, to challenge this with Walmart I had to call or email more times then I
could count. I always felt they purposely made it difficult.

~~~
gech
Does current economic theory include this common malfeasance among successful
dominant businesses as efficient?

~~~
computerex
I don't think current economic theory even takes these common malfeasances
into account. This is against the law, and so no widely accepted theory would
even acknowledge this.

~~~
digi_owl
Yeah, at best the theory will assume this kind of behavior will be sorted out
by competition. At worst it is just blankly ignored completely.

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tyingq
This is a bit different than their similar threat to suppliers that use AWS.
The venn diagram of truckers that carry for each is likely just one circle.
This would create a weird industry split since Amazon and Walmart are so
dominant in volume of shipments.

I wonder if this might be illegal even if it's not antitrust worthy.

~~~
a3n
That was my first thought: restraint of trade, or whatever someone who knows
what they're talking about would call it.

Besides, what is Walmart going to do when AmazonTrucking is the only trucking
company left?

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losteverything
I guess the cold war started.

I hope it isn't true. Amazon is not walmarts enemy: they should focus on low
prices and growth using new technology. Their ceo said they reached employment
peak [1]

Truckers and delivery people dont hate each other or have any competitive
spirit among each other. Pay me to make a delivery. End of story.

The ups and FedEx guy(s) and i all bitch about the same thing: why cant these
healthy lazy people go to the store. Day after day the same people get
packages. What do they do all day, shop$!! Its so funny it could make a
screenplay.

Truckers dont care either.

[1] [http://abcnews.go.com/amp/Business/wireStory/walmart-
traditi...](http://abcnews.go.com/amp/Business/wireStory/walmart-traditional-
retailing-roots-competitive-advantage-47794226)

~~~
nikofeyn
i order almost everything off amazon. i admit that i feel strange about this
for many reasons, but laziness doesn't really come into play. time is the most
valuable thing i have and stress is a major health issue. by ordering off of
amazon i completely sidestep having to deal with traffic, lines, driving,
miserable employees, poor service, not finding what i want, terrible products,
etc. that's a lot of stress and time that i save by having packages delivered
directly to me. whether that is a net gain or loss for society, i am not for
sure, but it certainly is a net win for myself.

~~~
losteverything
I am a hypocrite. I order too

My point was that delivery people dont give each other the finger - we could
care less. We talk shop amd know each other by name. I really doubt a trucker
hauling today to a Amazon site and tomorrow to a walmart site cares.

After years of delivering stuff people can buy we get jaded- and that is what
we all complain about. (to ourselves)

One example. Woman gets Fresh. Weekly. As carrier is lugging 4 green totes her
adult son watches. The carrier is a 59 year old woman. After the last tote,
the carrier says to the woman, "i know now why you order online- your son
won't help you with the groceries."

~~~
subway
I'm sure it would be preferable for the son to pick up the groceries, and the
59-year old carrier to be unemployed.

~~~
losteverything
Delivery people are on the front lines of society's clear delineation of the
"served" and the "hired" or "servers"

People with money buy convenience through delivery. This was not available
pre-Prime. Cumulatively the richer "served" are served by the poorer "servers"
in this case delivery people.

Same for drivers.

Although your statement is true the son should have helped...

------
Hemospectrum
First AWS, now this.

At what point does the DOJ step in? Isn't this anticompetitive behavior? I've
heard that Reagan-era deregulation changed a lot of the relevant law, but I'm
not clear on how. Is Walmart doing this with the expectation of impunity
because there's no longer a crime to charge them with, or because they see
themselves as immune to prosecution?

~~~
dman
Hard to make the case that walmart is a monopoly. For what its worth amazon
has pulled similar stunts like not selling the chromecast.

~~~
fatjokes
I can see the argument* to say "we can't invest the work to support
chromecast". Whereas it's harder to say "we won't talk to these other truckers
who work with our competitor".

*A argument, not one that would hold in court. IANAL.

EDIT: It seems I misunderstood Amazon's lack of Chromecast support. I hadn't
thought of trying to buy Chromecast through Amazon before. I own three of them
and bought all through the Google store.

~~~
travem
I don't think this is about supporting chromecast for Amazon Video, it's about
actually selling the google chromecast itself on amazon.com.

I don't think there is any argument that passes the sniff test for them not to
be able to sell a physical device like chromecast from amazon.com. The level
of incremental work is basically zero to add an item into the store.

~~~
bagels
Even better, when you search for chromecast on amazon.com, the first listing
is for Amazon's competing product, the 'Fire Stick'

------
GCA10
The comments on the original story are fascinating. Hundreds of truckers
sharing personal stories. Their spelling is dodgy but many bring detailed
personal data. From my read, it sounds as if Amazon has two business issues to
fix (staggered scheduling and last-minute cancellations). Walmart seems to
have infuriated truckers for more reasons than I can count. Not sure Walmart
is going to like the outcome of this war.

------
libeclipse
Jeez.

Walmart seem really damned insecure about themselves. This isn't the first
petty BS they've come out with regarding Amazon.

~~~
arkitaip
They aren't insecure, they are their predatory self. It's just that we
normally don't hear about their underhanded tactics because it mostly directly
affects blue collar workers and retail.

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CalChris
How is this not _restraint of trade_?

> _Restraint of trade means any activity which tends to limit trade, sales and
> transportation in interstate commerce or has a substantial impact on
> interstate commerce._

[https://definitions.uslegal.com/r/restraint-of-
trade/](https://definitions.uslegal.com/r/restraint-of-trade/)

------
madamelic
"Amazon offers $0.10 more per mile, leaving Walmart with no truckers"

But really, Wal-mart needs to get over themselves and do what they need to do
to adapt, rather than being the bully they've always been.

It isn't like they refuse technology, they have a pretty decent technology
team as far as I can tell.

~~~
mxstbr
Except they don't anymore. They laid off ~1,000 employees in the HQ, many of
them in their tech department. (Source:
[http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2017/01/20/wal-mart-
begin...](http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2017/01/20/wal-mart-begins-
layoffs-at-headquarters.html))

Disclaimer: Some of the workers that got laid off in that department were
friends of mine.

~~~
qmarchi
Even then, they still have an extremely competent technology division.

And I can say that the number of persons laid off in that even were <500.

Disclaimer: My mum was laid off in the event.

------
austenallred
Walmart is lashing out like it already knows Amazon is going to win. The only
play it has left is to bully partners.

~~~
_delirium
This isn't really new for Walmart. Their thing has long been to use their
market position as something of a monopsonist to extract concessions from
suppliers. Give us these things packaged differently, and for 7% less, and
make some of them Walmart exclusives (you're not selling _Target_ the same
thing, are you??), or we won't sell your stuff anymore.

~~~
AndrewKemendo
The stories of the hoops that suppliers have to go through in Bentonville are
legendary.

------
fanpuns
If this is true (keeping in mind the source is an analyst who is relating
conversation between other parties for which they were not involved), it might
not necessarily be a negative for the freight market. If the contractors
become territorial about which freight companies they will hire it will
effectively reduce the supply available for both (once a freight company
commits to one or the other) meaning Walmart/Amazon will each have to pay more
essentially for "exclusivity".

~~~
kissickas
But higher prices would also encourage Amazon to invest more in automating
their fleet, at which point the market will collapse.

~~~
petra
Money isn't the thing that prevents self-driving trucks from becoming a
reality.

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ceejayoz
Will they include USPS, UPS, and FedEx in this?

~~~
syshum
USPS is barred by law from signing an exclusive contract like this, to Walmart
would just have to refuse to use them.

UPS and Fedex, I highly doubt either would agree to it, but it is not
impossible to see one of them go with Walmart and One go with Amazon but
highly unlikely

~~~
thrillgore
Wouldn't matter, Amazon is already singling out all three with LaserShip and
its own Logistics firm.

Did I mention how terrible AMZL is at their job? I spend the better part of a
day tracking down a package marked as "delivered."

~~~
morganvachon
The last three packages I got from Amazon were late, even though they were
Prime guaranteed. Only one of those was the fault of the carrier, the other
two sat in the Amazon distribution center for the two guaranteed days, only
making it to the carrier long after they should have been in my mailbox.

While I was able to get an extension on my Prime membership all three times,
I'm starting to wonder if I should just drop it altogether. Yes, the shipping
is "free" even if it's late, but it's damned annoying when I try to plan
around a guaranteed date that ends up anything but guaranteed.

~~~
trentmb
Amazon prime started taking 5 days. I canceled. Orders now spend 3 days in
waiting to ship, and then arrive 2 days after being marked as shipped.

~~~
ceejayoz
Very odd. I've seen nothing of the sort, so I wonder if it's regional. Here in
upstate NY I get things when promised, and Amazon explicitly states "get it by
today+2" when ordering.

------
markpapadakis
When you are desperate, you are acting irrationally and, definitely,
absolutely, not thinking long-term, but counting on potential short-gains to
survive, and looks like that's Whalmart is doing.

They are doomed, of course, just a matter of how long it will take until they
become irrelevant. And it's not like they couldn't study history or didn't
have time or money to invest in whatever would have been required to mount a
better defence, but in the end, hubris and misplaced confidence is going to
claim another foolish company.

~~~
CamperBob2
_They are doomed, of course, just a matter of how long it will take until they
become irrelevant. And it 's not like they couldn't study history or didn't
have time or money to invest in whatever would have been required to mount a
better defence, but in the end, hubris and misplaced confidence is going to
claim another foolish company._

+1. Not much you can say about Sears that you can't also say about WalMart.

------
dredmorbius
This is sttarting to read as a Thucydides Trap. Established power threatened
by an upstart rival.

[https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/09/un...](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/09/united-
states-china-war-thucydides-trap/406756/)

------
solotronics
fuck Walmart. You don't hear anything about Amazon workers being on public
assistance because they are payed enough and get enough hours to survive on
their own. Around the holidays Walmart takes food and toy donations for their
workers inside their break rooms. It's a bad company and I hope it gets killed
off.

~~~
skinnymuch
Amazon is notorious for their awful treatment of workers. Just recently a
local NPR station had a re-run of a story where (1) even when the AC broke
inside the warehouse, Amazon wouldn't give them a break or let them open the
door or windows to cool things off. A person eventually passed out. (2) They
tempt and fake promise temp workers with good future outlook like better pay
and benefits after they work for X amount of time. But then Amazon lets them
go right before X amount of time is done. (3) Overall they overwork and are
brutal with some warehouse workers.

I'll try and find the NPR link. But like someone else has already linked to 3
article, this isn't a special one off case.

If you're going to upset at how Walmart treats blue collar workers, a similar
amount of anger should be aimed at Amazon.

~~~
alyandon
I'm not really trying to defend Amazon Fulfillment nor do I doubt the veracity
of the NPR article. However, I want to throw some anecdata into the
conversation.

My ex-wife has worked for Amazon Fulfillment for almost 5 years (in Texas -
not exactly known as a "worker friendly" place when it comes to having laws
protecting the working class from abuse) in multiple facilities (both
replenishment and fulfillment) and hasn't witnessed workers being
systematically mistreated, obvious safety issues going unreported and
unaddressed, etc. She makes almost twice minimum wage with medical benefits,
stock, 401k matching, 1.5x + 8 hours holiday pay compensation during crunch
time, etc. All of that paid to someone that has only a high-school equivalence
certificate.

She used to work at Walmart and would unequivocally tell you that Amazon
Fulfillment has been the better of the two companies to work for.

~~~
skinnymuch
The NPR report was specifically about 2 or 3 locations if I recall. So
anecdote does work the.

------
ctdonath
Both may be reaching scales which strain the limits of the shipping industry.
To retain needed capacity, each has to elbow the other out of the way, while
they ramp up alternatives.

------
Mediterraneo10
How is this not tortious interference? Walmart seems to be making this threat
in order to undermine the contract between these truckers and Amazon.

------
bedhead
This is a misguided, myopic decision done out of sheer desperation. It's a
symptom, not the disease.

~~~
toomuchtodo
It's not desperation, it's using your leverage to your advantage. Isn't that
the smart business decision? How is that any different then Amazon, Uber, or
anyone else deciding to raise prices once they're the dominant participant in
their respective marketplace?

"Competition is for losers." \- Peter Thiel

~~~
Upvoter33
You misattributed the quote:

""Competition is for losers." \- Peter Thiel." -Michael Scott.

More seriously, I hate this quote, for so many reasons. Sure, it's great if
you can do something no one else is doing and do it so well that no one can
really compete with you. But there are plenty of people who compete with
others and the world is often a better place as a result. It feels like people
lose sight of the goals: not just becoming really wealthy, but perhaps serving
the public?

~~~
toomuchtodo
I agree with you entirely though. That's the problem: the delta between the
way capitalism is current running and how it should.

#LateStageCapitalismProblems

------
oliv__
I feel like truckers should tell Walmart to shove it. This is getting abusive

~~~
partisan
In the short term, this could benefit the truckers. Rates may go up as each of
the larger customers raises rates to attract them.

In the long term, truckers are best served by having competition in the
marketplace. If there is only one big customer on the market then they have
little chance of getting fair rates.

~~~
AJ007
In the long run, there are no truckers.

------
m-p-3
Hopefully this will backfire on Wal-mart.

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pasbesoin
Seems the FTC should step in here.

Oh, wait. We have a "pro business" Administration and Congress.

So, the big boys get to throw their weight around.

bah

P.S. These "big boys" should have to _compete_ for truckers' services. Just
like everyone else. On an ongoing bases... not some one-time commitment
extorted solely to their advantage.

