
Incestuous kings may have built Ireland’s Newgrange passage tomb - benbreen
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/06/incestuous-kings-may-have-built-irelands-newgrange-passage-tomb/
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tgflynn
Since they've found a lot of ancient DNA there are many more questions that
they should be able to answer.

One is how closely related were these neolithic people to modern Irish people
and/or ancient DNA from later Irish populations. There are intriguing
parallels between the story told by the DNA and Irish mythology about the
origins of the Irish people, but I'm not exactly sure what the best way to
match them up is. Knowing to what extent the passage tomb builders contributed
their DNA to later populations might shed more light on that question.

A second question is since these neolithic Irish kings shared two relatively
uncommon cultural traits with the Egyptian Pharaoh's: first degree incest and
a strong interest in monumental architecture, and since both groups were near
contemporaries (on a multi-millenial timescale anyway) , it would be very
interesting to know if the two were genetically related in any way.

~~~
iguy
> One is how closely related were these neolithic people to modern Irish
> people

The article explains that these are related to the first farmers, who arrived
(slowly) from roughly what's now Turkey, and mixed with local pre-farming
people (who had been there a few millenia).

In northern Europe these people were all but completely replaced by the Indo-
European arrivals, who (with various smaller-distance and smaller-number
movements, like the Vikings) were the people living there until the 20th C.

~~~
tgflynn
If that's the case then they might correspond to the Tuatha De Danann of Irish
mythology who were supposed to have been the first people to inhabit Ireland
(I think the Irish have traditionally believed that these were indeed the
mound builders).

What's confusing is that the article also says they probably arrived from
Spain and/or France, which is where the Celtic (and hence Indo-European) Gaels
are said to have arrived from much later. Perhaps both groups followed the
same route to Ireland at different times ?

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bane
Newgrange is super cool to visit. I remember when we went to Ireland on a
castle stay vacation (also recommended) and on a lark decided to hit it up
having never heard of it. Completely blown away. We ended up in a group with
just me, my wife, and the guide and got a really wonderful in depth and
personal experience. In my book much more interesting than Stonehenge.

I was also struck with how similar it appeared to large tombs in South Korea.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Tombs_of_the_Joseon_Dyna...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Tombs_of_the_Joseon_Dynasty)

~~~
messe
Knowth, which is part of the same Brú na Bóinne complex, is more impressive in
my opinion. The reconstruction of the front of newgrange is... questionable.
Knowth also has a third of all the examples of megalithic artwork in western
europe.

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ciguy
I visited Newgrange on a whim several years ago while staying in Dublin. I
liked it so much I stayed a few days and explored the surrounding areas.
Newgrange is the largest but there are numerous smaller tombs in the area,
including Knowth and Dowth.

If you are able definitely take more than a day and experience the area on a
deeper level. It's one of the most peaceful places I have ever been.

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briancleland
If you are interested in Newgrange, and ancient Irish history in general, the
Mythical Ireland Facebook page is doing nightly video podcasts that may be of
interest:
[https://www.facebook.com/mythicalireland/videos/116891482346...](https://www.facebook.com/mythicalireland/videos/1168914823466810/)

It is run by Anthony Murphy who lives near Newgrange and is a real font of
information on such matters.

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stormdennis
There's a celtic myth in Ireland that their ancestors came from Spain. This
was so widely believed that at the time of the Elizabethan conquest of
Ireland, Irish refugees were granted the right to settle in Spain because of
their shared ancestry.

~~~
weare138
Turns out there's some truth to the story. The native Irish are genetically
related to the Basques and people from the Galicia region in Spain.

[https://www.irishtimes.com/news/genetic-studies-show-our-
clo...](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/genetic-studies-show-our-closest-
relatives-are-found-in-galicia-and-the-basque-region-1.700877)

The story itself is mostly derived from the Book of Invasions (Lebor Gabála
Érenn) and arrival of the Milesians who were Gaelic.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebor_Gab%C3%A1la_%C3%89renn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebor_Gab%C3%A1la_%C3%89renn)

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jxramos
Is the _incestuous_ detail significant/material to the story or just
eyecatching clickbait hooks?

~~~
enchiridion
The article covers DNA sequencing that proves that part of the myth. The
cultural implications are also discussed.

