

Calling all Geeks: Chattanooga Pays Techies to Relocate - codegeek
http://www.cnbc.com/id/49292712

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droithomme
Speaking as someone who has spent a few months there. Unfortunately
Chattanooga is not a very good location for free thinkers or people that are
not comfortable in a very fundamentalist environment. Average IQ in the area
is not high. Not saying people shouldn't do this but do not underestimate the
cultural clash, it's like going to a foreign country.

$1250 won't cover much moving expenses, shipping my car across country cost my
employer $3000 during my last move, the moving fees were around $15,000 and I
don't have as much stuff as most people.

The forgivable second mortage is rather limited as you have to choose from
certain less desirable neighborhoods that the city wants to "revitalize".
Outsiders looking for property will be shafted by local real estate
developers. I strongly recommend anyone considering buying a property in
Chattanooga review the property sales record history for the houses they look
at. They are available on line and at the courthouse. You may be very
surprised to find that the house the bible quoting agent says is a steal at
$400,000 sold for $50,000 only two years ago. Renting is not an unreasonable
choice instead, and at least you have your choice of neighborhoods rather than
being corralled into certain ones with a surplus of properties owned by local
insiders trying to get rid of them.

The city should not be paying for relocation and mortgages anyway. If
companies want people to relocate it is a matter of course that they must pay
full relocation, with no excuses. Expecting local government to subsidize
necessary business expenses is not a reasonable expectation. Companies that
can not afford normal business expenses like paying relocation costs of
specialized and critical talent should stop complaining that they can not find
the right people. Most likely they should not be in business to begin with as
it is clear they are unable to generate enough revenue selling products to
stay in business. Government taxing the populace to subsidize businesses that
can not manage to cover normal business costs is a questionable economic
strategy that likely does more harm than good in the long run.

This part of the cited article got my attention:

> The smart grid is also being used for security purposes, with police cars
> able to access surveillance video from public areas. If there’s suspicious
> activity in a park or downtown, officers across town can instantly flood the
> problem area with lights.

> That technology is in place in one third of the city this year and will
> increase over the next few years, Marston said.

The city is obviously bragging about this because they think it makes their
newly created surveillance state seem like the latest in high tech wizardry
and a signal that they are technologically advanced. It actually highlights
something of the opposite. An announcement that the city had set up public
wifi, set aside parkland that wasn't football related, established bike lanes,
or had implemented a gifted program for students in the schools would be more
indicative of a good place to live for adult engineers and other creative and
knowledge workers.

Finally, a Geek is a Circus worker who bites the heads off of live chickens.
For decades it was used as a severe insult, often preceding a beatdown by
jocks. The term has been reclaimed by creative intellectuals among themselves,
but is always a term of derision on some level when used by those outside this
group, comparable to the n word with african americans and the d and f words
in the gay and lesbian communities. Programs such as "Hunt the Geek" I find to
be intrinsically insulting and disrespectful.

All this said and in closing, Chattanooga is not a bad city all told, and
there are plenty worse places. Chattanooga has one of the nicest aquariums in
the region, and has great rock climbing and hiking trails in the area. It's
also within weekend trip distance of Atlanta, which can be a really fun city
to visit with excellent restaurants and events. If considering this offer, go
because you get a good employment offer and like the area and not because of
the $1250 moving subsidy with a number of conditions. Also go with your eyes
open and do not purchase any property until you understand how the local real
estate market works, and realizing there is a substantial chance you will end
up underwater and unable to sell and leave if you choose poorly.

~~~
Xcelerate
I too am curious about where this information concerning low IQs comes from.
Some of the most intelligent people I know are from Tennessee (Oak Ridge area
anyway).

~~~
droithomme
I am sure we have friends in common who work at Oak Ridge. I said nothing
about Oak Ridge, I commented on the general intellectual environment in
Chattanooga, which is based on having personally lived there, made friends
with, and talked to many many people, and comparing this to experiences in
other regions.

~~~
Xcelerate
Alright, I guess I incorrectly inferred that you were referring to Tennessee
in general from your experiences within Chattanooga.

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jefflinwood
I like the idea, but I'm not sure the money's quite enough motivation for most
techies - I think the offer would be more appealing if it was sweetened with
free co-working space, tech classes, or something similar.

For reference, here is a Zillow link that shows all the 3 bed/2 bath houses
built since 1900 in the area shown on their map - I'm not sure that all of
these are in the neighborhoods to be revitalized. The prices seem pretty
reasonable to me (I live in Austin, TX which also has no state income tax) -
homes in the $50,000 to $250,000 range.

<http://bit.ly/VCbXK3>

The way the payout is structured, it's effectively $3,333/year for three years
plus a one-time $1,250 payment. That's not enough for any developers I know to
uproot and effectively move out of their professional/personal networks.

Anyone here live in Chattanooga?

~~~
RMacy
I used to live in Chattanooga, and recently moved to Nashville. Not much going
on there...

EDIT: Also the crime rates are pretty high, and traffic is terrible. But
downtown is really quaint. Lots of homeless roaming around downtown though. I
probably wouldn't suggest the move, you give up a lot in the community and
professional development space for a few bucks.

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crowbar
I live in Knoxville and while I love living here, finding tech positions at
decent pay is difficult. The cost of living is lower and many firms here take
advantage of that to an insulting degree. I can imagine it being similar
nearby in Chattanooga.

If I was planning to move to Chattanooga, the payout would nice small bonus,
but that's about it.

~~~
Xcelerate
Another HN'er in Knoxville here. I'm a grad student at UT. I really like the
Knoxville area (more than Atlanta -- where I was) and am curious about what
sort of technical jobs are in the area.

I'd kind of like to stay here and find a good engineering position, but I'm
concerned that since the COL is so low (=> low starting salary when I
graduate) that it may be better to get a job in a big city first and then move
back here later.

~~~
steverb
On the dev side, there's a crap load of .NET work. I get two or three emails
from local recruiters every week.

Unfortunately, half the jobs are at companies you will not want to work at for
more than a year (ignore what anyone says about turn over rates, peoples
expectations are too low).

My advice for anyone starting out would be to start attending the local user
groups (<http://www.etnug.org> , <http://knoxvillesc.org> ,
<http://www.agileknoxville.com> ) and start working on public stuff that you
can point to (put some stuff on git, answer some SO questions).

I have no clue what starting salary around here is currently though, but it
should be easy to find out by asking one of the local recruiters. Shoot me an
email if you need the names of some of the more trustworthy headhunters in the
area.

~~~
crowbar
I keep meaning to go to some of the local user group meetings. Things keep
getting in the way and I keep making excuses. Perhaps I'll do so this this
month!

~~~
steverb
Of the three I would recommend the Software Craftsmanship Group. There's beer,
and last year we did a intense scotch tasting.

Plus it's technology agnostic (although samples tend to be in .NET because
Knoxville), it focuses less on technologies and more on technique.

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ntkachov
They are asking for quite a bit but they are paying very little. Their
relocation payout is $1250. For many of the big companies they pay their
interns more to relocate. Asking for top tech talent to move for $11,250 is
little more than a signing bonus.

This plan will get them two kinds of people, people already thinking of moving
to Cahttanooga, and people who need the money.

~~~
Snackchez
Correction, a third kind: techies who rock climb. Chattanooga has epic
bouldering.

~~~
waterlesscloud
And caving. Lots and lots and lots of caves.

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waterlesscloud
"Another goal of Geek Move is to revitalize the eight neighborhoods where Geek
Movers may purchase their new primary homes"

I'd be curious just how much these neighborhoods need to be revitalized. On
the plus side, real estate in a "revitalizing" part of Chattanooga should be
very cheap, so $10k might be a substantial percentage of the home price.

Chattanooga is a decent little town. Living overlooking the river or on the
mountainsides would be nice. Or maybe in the smallish downtown area. Other
parts of town would be a lot less appealing to me personally.

I note you have to be more than 50 miles away, which makes it perfect for
siphoning off talent from Atlanta and its suburbs.

