
Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports - doppp
https://techcrunch.com/2018/10/06/microsoft-suspends-windows-10-update-citing-data-loss-reports/
======
kens
I'm a tolerant person, but recently I switched from Windows to Mac because the
forced Windows updates kept messing me up. One time I left a long simulation
running overnight. In the morning, I was greeted by a computer that had
automatically rebooted to install updates, killing my simulation. Another
instance was my daughter's birthday party, where she wanted to show a movie.
The computer decided to spend an hour doing updates instead. It seems like
Windows has become an update engine that will sometimes also do computation
for you.

My assumption is there's someone at Microsoft who gets a bonus as long as they
keep presenting update graphs going up and to the right, and they don't care
how much they mess up the Windows experience in the process.

~~~
warent
I'm by no means a low-level OS developer but I can't help but wonder, wouldn't
it be possible for Windows to partition off part of the disk to copy system-
critical files and then quietly stage updates in the partition (all of this
with _minimal thread priority_ so that if some other process demands
resources/threads, it will pause/defer itself!). When the staged update is
complete, it gives you a friendly notification "You have a new update
available!" which you can then complete as fast as your disk can copy files
(or even just set some flag to toggle the partition in use... The old
partition then becomes the new staging partition)

Does that make sense at all or is this an unrealistic idea? EDIT: Maybe this
is how updates already work, I'm not sure

~~~
ndesaulniers
> wouldn't it be possible for Windows to partition off part of the disk

This is what ChromeOS and Android do. At least on Android Pixel phones,
there's A and B partitions for each of the boot, system, and vendor
partitions. The bootloader tracks whether A or B should be booted. Userspace
downloads the updates and writes to the opposite-than-booted partition. On
reboot, the bootloader boots the latest partition. Downsize is these
partitions are now double the size, so less space for the user partition.

~~~
bschwindHN
This is also how microcontrollers like the ESP32 do over-the-air updates while
keeping a "safe" factory firmware version.

------
captainmuon
Bizarre. I've seen something like this already in spring. A colleague lost all
their documents, and calmly claimed it was probably "Windows Update".
Apparently it is common knowledge in the office that Windows Update sometimes
does that. I could never verify nor reproduce it, and chalked it up to "users
say the darndest things". Files were simply restored from backup. Now I'm
beginning to wonder if there was more to it.

That being said, I _personally_ haven't had problems with Windows 10 except
for the very first months. I'm quite happy how stable it is and how at the
same time they frequently push out new, useful features (the new console, ssh,
nicer gui, immersive search, package management, ...). Microsoft, please don't
mess it up and force me to go LTSB...

~~~
coeroble
They released a new version of LTSB (well, they call it LTSC now) just a few
days ago, based on this last version. I made a clean installation today.

en_windows_10_enterprise_ltsc_2019_x64_dvd_74865958.iso

No Store, no Cortana, no Edge, Windows 7 calculator, no Candy Crush, no
bullshit. Don't miss out. ;-)

~~~
DaiPlusPlus
Slight downside: apparently Office 365 won't support LTSC soon:
[https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/Windows-IT-Pro-
Blog/C...](https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/Windows-IT-Pro-Blog/Changes-
to-Office-and-Windows-servicing-and-support/ba-p/151509)

~~~
Tsubasachan
The people who use LTSB also know how to get a volume license copy of Office
2019, which will be supported.

~~~
DaiPlusPlus
But how long will perpetual Office licenses be sold by Microsoft?

Problem is... 75% of Microsoft’s customers will be satisfied with Office 365 -
the other 25% are utterly allergic to the notion of losing sovereignty over
their data, but knowing Microsoft they’ll optimise for that 75% and eventually
stop servicing the remaining 25% who desire perpetual licenses and on-prem
storage, presumably they’ll be happy with OpenOffice thus giving MS’ Office
org an excuse to ditch that market segment entirely.

...and that would trigger Microsoft’s aping of Apple’s similar departure from
their customer base, which means they lose their halo effect.

------
winrid
The whole user experience of installing Windows 10 is abysmal. Wife got a new
laptop and I watched her to the initial setup. Stupid things like an "enter
your pin" dialog that automatically opens another dialog that closes if you
hit enter. So you quickly type your pin and hit enter and just see the dialog
flash. Or the confusing "remove" button for the fingerprint scanner setup that
just removes all of your fingerprints without confirmation. That's just one
UI. It feels like some shitty enterprise software. Pathetic.

~~~
jimmaswell
My anecdote: I've painlessly ran trough the windows 10 setup at least 3 times
now.

~~~
GordonS
Was going to say much the same thing, except I've probably done it around 10
times - it's always gone fine, and it's _so_ much faster than previous
versions of Windows.

~~~
pixl97
At the same time, are you running it on a faster SSD?

Disk IO is a huge bottleneck in the setup process.

~~~
GordonS
Hah, you're right, I never thought of that!

------
chrisper
The sad thing is that this bug has been reported during the insider betas. But
people didn't upvote it so Microsoft never saw them.

[https://mobile.twitter.com/WithinRafael/status/1048473218917...](https://mobile.twitter.com/WithinRafael/status/1048473218917363713)

~~~
giancarlostoro
That really is sad. They should of had a team review all the reports and look
for ones that seem bad enough. What are the odds a dozen users losing files is
their own faults... Sheesh.

~~~
cududa
That’s how it use to be. Now literally the entire team that use to do that are
at Amazon working on Fire and Alexa.

------
makecheck
Well I’ve been waiting literally _months_ for a laptop to complete its claim
to be “installing” update 1709, and it never does.

The _only_ feedback in the entire update process is a little spinning circle
in a list of updates, which spins for hours on end without apparently doing
anything _until_ Windows suddenly out of the blue is “ready” to install and
reboots. It will appear to get somewhere, reboot again, and somehow return to
the desktop as if everything is OK, yet the update list claims that the update
failed. Then it spins again.

I mean, even if it’s “good” that it doesn’t auto-install broken updates, it
sure seems to be spending the absolute maximum amount of resources in terms of
downloading data, consuming energy, wasting my time, etc. I suspect the _size_
of the update is the factor they should most easily be able to control; patch
something smaller and maybe it will actually finish. I don’t know, just seems
like an utter mess to me.

~~~
g051051
You probably have the same problem I had, which is a slightly non-standard
disk layout. Windows Update will fail without producing any meaningful
diagnostics. It took me a _lot_ of time and much effort to finally get past
that and get my system working.

Things to check:

Are you UEFI booting an MBR disk? It works, but Windows Setup will fail in
future upgrades.

Do you have all the correct and required partitions? If you don't have the
right partitions (OEM, EFI) of the right size, Windows Setup will again fail
with cryptic errors, none of which say "your partitions are wrong".

~~~
Macha
> Do you have all the correct and required partitions? If you don't have the
> right partitions (OEM, EFI) of the right size, Windows Setup will again fail
> with cryptic errors, none of which say "your partitions are wrong".

Worth pointing out you don't have to be sharing the drive with another OS to
get this situation. I had a system which I upgraded from 7 -> 8.1 -> 10\. My
linux install and bootloader are on a totally separate drive. This left the
drive with:

* 100mb system reserved partition (unused, created by win 7 installer)

* 250gb C: partition

* 400mb system reserved partition (created by 8.1 or 10 update, actually used)

Then I used the Samsung tool to copy to my new ssd and ended up with a 100mb
system reserved partition and a 1tb c: drive. But the 1709 update tried to
unpack the >100mb update into the too small system reserved partition and
failed in a loop

~~~
g051051
Sure. My system disk was Windows only, but I go to pretty extreme lengths to
avoid reinstalling Windows. So after my latest system upgrade I had a UEFI
system running off a MBR disk and some bad partitioning. This was a source for
much amusement...Window Setup would fail without explaining why, mbr2gpt would
fail without explaining why, the BCD tools behaved badly, the Windows 10
recovery environment wouldn't work, etc.

Gradually, with much trial and error, I managed to work through each problem,
until I wound up with a mostly correct GPT disk and a fully functioning
system. It's now successfully applied several updates correctly, where
previously it would get to 99%, fail, then roll back, only to try again the
next day. As a side effect, I now know more about Windows 10 booting, the BCD,
and GPT than I ever wanted to.

The only "problem" I have now is an unused old boot partition that I'm frankly
terrified to try to remove, since it'll renumber all of the partitions and
cause some problems. I'm relatively sure I know how to fix it, but it's too
risky to contemplate right now.

------
JepZ
If you want to use Windows, just do it. But if you had to experience what it
feels like when Windows thinks it is time for an automatic-forced-reboot-
update which takes 4 hours the day you have to submit a thesis, then you might
know why I am not so fond of Microsoft products anymore...

By the way, later that month I learned that I had been lucky as some people
ended up being stuck within the update.

------
user3359
They're absolutely garbage at this.

When I was _forced_ into the windows 10 update, it went through the process
and appeared to finish but didn't put my desktop back. No problem I figured,
they put it somewhere.

So I did a file search, found the desktop in a folder, moved it back to the
desktop.

A day later it self-restarted and _completed the update_, replacing the
desktop with the now empty desktop folder.

I went to the Microsoft store to get them to do a file recovery and they had
the _gall_ to tell me it would be $250 plus 7 days and they wouldn't guarantee
recovery.

I moved to Mac this year after being exclusively on Windows since '98.

I hope Microsoft dies andisgraceful death.

~~~
arthurfm
Ironically, if you had switched to a Mac sooner you may have been affected by
Apple's data loss/corruption bugs. [1] [2]

Regardless of OS it's always a good idea to have backups of your important
data.

[1] [https://www.macrumors.com/2018/02/19/apfs-bug-macos-data-
los...](https://www.macrumors.com/2018/02/19/apfs-bug-macos-data-loss-disk-
images/)

[2] [https://www.iezzi.ch/leopard-1051-massive-data-loss-
bug/](https://www.iezzi.ch/leopard-1051-massive-data-loss-bug/)

~~~
StreamBright
Unironically, I am in control of when and if any update happens on my Mac.
Also unironically, the described bug has not happened as a result of an
upgrade, it was not forced on any user and definitely was not affecting the
whole desktop.

From the articles you linked:

"The images get corrupted on copies to the USB attached external drive. "

"However, as Bombich notes, ordinary APFS volumes like SSD startup disks are
not affected by the problem described above, so the vast majority of users
won't be affected by it – the flaw is most applicable when making backups to
network volumes. "

I am not sure you have read the original article and the two articles you
linked, otherwise it would have been obvious that these are not the same by
volume and severity.

~~~
arthurfm
> it would have been obvious that these are not the same by volume and
> severity.

If users don't have backups, _any_ unintended data loss caused by an operating
system bug is bad because it can be difficult or impossible to recover the
affected data. Would you not agree?

You may not have been affected by the two bugs I described above, but some
people would have been (more so with the image corruption bug).

> the described bug has not happened as a result of an upgrade, it was not
> forced on any user and definitely was not affecting the whole desktop.

If you go back further in time, there actually was a bug that resulted in data
loss during an OS X upgrade.

[https://www.macworld.co.uk/news/mac/exclusive-oxford-semi-
fi...](https://www.macworld.co.uk/news/mac/exclusive-oxford-semi-firewire-
bug-7197/)

 __ _Oxford Semiconductor has issued a statement with regard to the emerging
Panther and FireWire data-loss debacle.

The company says: "Oxford Semiconductor has been investigating reports that
some FireWire 800 drives have lost data after an upgrade to the Mac OS X 10.3
Panther operating system is installed (released late October).

"Currently we believe this issue relates to a change in the way Panther uses
FireWire that affected version 1.02 of the OXUF922 driver software. A new
version, 1.05 was issued by Oxford Semiconductor to the manufacturers of
external drive products in early September."

As Macworld UK first reported yesterday, users installing Panther while having
an external FireWire drive connected to their Mac have seen data loss;
similarly, users with FireWire drives connected to their systems have seen
data loss once they reboot Panther. At this stage, it appears that the problem
is confined to FireWire 800 drives._ __

In 2001 there was also a bug in iTunes 2 that caused an entire hard drive
partition to be deleted if the volume label was prefixed with a space.

[https://www.wired.com/2001/11/glitch-in-itunes-deletes-
drive...](https://www.wired.com/2001/11/glitch-in-itunes-deletes-drives/)

 __ _Some Macintosh users who rushed to download the latest version of iTunes
– Apple 's popular digital-music player – were singing a song of woe on
Friday. A bug in the installation procedure caused the application to
completely delete their computers' hard drives.

The bug seems to have affected computers with a very specific configuration:
people running Mac OS X who had "partitioned" big hard drives into several
smaller ones, and who'd typed a space at the beginning of the drive name.

For example, if a Mac had a drive named " music" instead of "music," it might
have been deleted by iTunes.

Tom Fisher, a computer repair technician who lost about 100 gigabytes of
information during the installation, said that people often include a space in
the drive name to ensure it shows up at the top of the list when they examine
their drives.

According to Mac experts who examined the code of the buggy iTunes installer,
the problem arose from a very tiny programming mistake – a forgotten quote
mark._ __

------
okket
Previous discussion from 10 hours ago:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18154165](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18154165)
(34 comments)

------
ttul
Is this incompetence the result of Microsoft being unable to retain decent
engineers? I mean, who actually would want to work on the next Windows
release? You’d have to be a masochist.

~~~
seiferteric
It's amazing to me. With the resources MS has, they could rebuild a new OS
from the ground up and finally get rid of all the cruft and legacy issues in
windows once and for all and still support legacy software via emulation,
virtualization or even a compatibility layer a la WINE or WSL. Why don't they
do it? Google is building fuchsia, Apple/NeXT was able to take BSD and build
MacOS X, certainly MS can do it right?

~~~
StreamBright
And lose 90% of the user base (corporate users) along the way. I think at this
stage they should just introduce a new OS for home users that copies the best
parts of MacOS (non intrusive updates, UX, common task bar / top bar, single
folder installs, unix/posix paths) and add the best parts of Windows (user
space video card drivers, ???) and add some from VMS (keep file versions /
purge). While at it, they could also do this on a much more secure way than
before re-thinking the whole end user security.

Than I would be happy. Well, obviously this is not going to happen but I would
have been nice. :)

I have big hopes for Google Fuchsia

~~~
bunnycorn
> user space video card drivers

On macOS, video card drivers are userspace, in fact, every driver (kext) is
userspace

------
QuinnyPig
Every time I get irked with MacOS, or get annoyed with the iPad, I weigh
moving back to Windows. Then I see threads like this…

~~~
conradfr
Maybe the real problem is that the two major desktop OS are currently bad.

~~~
wetpaws
Hint: there is 3rd one

~~~
satya71
There is, but it's worse. Especially since GNOME 3. I know you can use MATE or
Cinnamon, but it's not the default on any of the major platforms.

~~~
AnthonyMouse
They technically have defaults, but when the difference for most distributions
(e.g. Debian) is just checking a different box in the installer, it seems like
a silly thing to complain about.

~~~
clear_dg
I think there's an assumption that the default DE gets more attention from the
distro; it's more polished, and "just works" (or at least, something
approaching the concept on Linux).

e.g. from what I remember, when installing xfce in debian, you get the ugly
barebones defaults from upstream. Compare this to Xubuntu...

~~~
IanSanders
[https://ubuntu-mate.org](https://ubuntu-mate.org)

------
alan_n
So glad now I turned off Window's updates (because no matter what I did they
kept installing when they shouldn't have).

I have been considering moving to linux for a while now because there's
finally good alternatives for some of the apps I use, and I'm definitely going
to start the move now.

I had all my user folders moved and this could have been me (and my backup
drive just died too!). The user folders were actually part of the reason I
disabled them. Every time, without fail, the moved user folders would get
duplicated because Windows would recreate them at their default locations. I
wouldn't be surprised if this bug wasn't related to that one.

~~~
diminoten
A real Sophie's choice: have your data stolen by hackers because you're
vulnerable, or have your data deleted by the patches that secure your system!

~~~
userbinator
The former is blown out of proportion because the vast majority of
vulnerabilities are only locally exploitable, and the rest is mostly "visit
shady site in IE with default settings" with a tiny bit of "hackers can own
your system if you connect it directly to the Internet and don't do anything
other than leave it on." My thoughts on the above are, respectively, "meh",
"why would you use IE with default settings" , and "yes I definitely need this
fixed." Unfortunately Win10 doesn't give you that choice.

~~~
diminoten
So you pick "have my data and identity stolen" over "my computer occasionally
restarts itself while I'm asleep". Alright, good luck!

~~~
exodust
You missed the very true point they made about overstated vulnerabilities. The
odds of actually having your data compromised due to not updating for a few
weeks or even months, is low. Particularly if your browsing and computer usage
doesn't involve downloading dodgy software and browsing to shady unfamiliar
websites, and you're at least half aware of sensible computer use, password
and login use.

~~~
diminoten
This is hubris incarnate, the seatbelt argument all over again.

~~~
exodust
Poor analogy, and typical of the deferred-update paranoia crowd, thinking the
worst and feeling exposed because Microsoft says you are in "critical danger".

A better analogy: You should keep your bicycle helmet on in the shower due to
the slippery tiles and statistics of shower-related head injuries.

Or this...

Believe it or not, when you leave home without your umbrella, it may not rain.
You know this, but you take your umbrella anyway. I choose not to.

~~~
diminoten
The analogy was more than apt: a car crash is devastating, as is losing your
identity, it's more likely than people tend to think, and the cost of
protecting yourself against this devastating thing is relatively low.

If anything, the umbrella analogy wasn't great, because getting wet is a
consequence of forgetting your umbrella, and that's _far_ from as devastating
as having your identity stolen. Further, you getting wet doesn't create a
negative network effect like having your computer hacked does by adding your
computer to a nefarious botnet.

This isn't Reddit, you can agree that the comparison was solid, but that the
conclusion was still wrong. No need to go into Internet argument mode; we can
have a discussion. For example, your helmet analogy in the bathtub is a decent
one, except for the fact that it costs _way_ more than running an update does
to keep you safe.

Are you critically vulnerable all the time? No. Are you better equipped than
Microsoft to judge which updates are important and which aren't? No. It's, as
I said, the definition of hubris to think otherwise.

If you don't like how Windows does updates, don't use Windows -- lots of other
great options.

Besides, the cost is _absurdly_ low to keep yourself safe. If you're making
the choice to run an un-updated Windows machine that's connected to the
Internet, you are driving without a seatbelt, and not only are you _literally_
risking your own livelihood, but you're also putting others at risk.

~~~
exodust
Try disengaging "worst case scenario" mode. You argument is hinged on seat
belt catastrophe, loss of livelihood, identity theft, botnets, and general
worst case computer doom.

Losing your livelihood because you didn't update Windows in a timely manner?
That's beyond a joke. Besides, Anti-virus software would do a better job of
preventing these worst case events.

The reason people have their identities stolen or computers hacked is mainly
because of human error. People open attachments; people fail to identify scam
emails and start engaging with criminals; people enter information willingly
on websites they shouldn't, people put USB drives they find on the ground into
their computers; people do dumb things and no "critical security update" is
going to stop that.

Yes, forgetting your umbrella results in getting wet. Running with your logic,
we need to extend the analogy. The rain gets on your watch causing it to
malfunction and tells the wrong time, so you miss your train. You turn up late
to the interview, you don't get the job, you can't pay the rent, you get
kicked out, you're now homeless and living on the street. Really should have
taken that umbrella.

~~~
diminoten
It's not a joke, ransomware for example is real, and it's a _huge_ problem. If
you know _anything_ about security you know that ransomware is on the rise and
it's getting worse each year.

Malware infecting an insecure computer is not a "worst case scenario", this
happens to millions of computers each year.

"Only" 6 million car accidents happen per year in the US, even though there
were ~10 billion car trips over that same set of people and area, which makes
the incidence rate 0.06%, so why bother with a seatbelt? It's "beyond a joke"
to think you're going to get into an accident today!

This isn't a debate; keeping your system up to date is, by far, the _best_ way
to stay safe from a _real_ threat. You can pretend it's not there all you
want, but the rest of us are going to take care, and would appreciate if you
didn't contribute to the sea of botnets. You make everyone less safe.

~~~
exodust
> _This isn 't a debate_

Be advised that you don't get to decide on whether this is or isn't a debate.
You are attempting to re-frame the _debate_ to suit your precarious position.

This _debate_ as specified in the parent discussions, is about Microsoft
enforcing updates on people without choice. This causes annoyance and even
loss of work. The top comment describes Windows as an "an update engine that
will sometimes also do computation for you". This is a significant and
legitimate criticism that trumps your arm-flailing about malware (which as I
said would be better defended with virus protection).

As the parent poster said, many of the vulnerabilities discovered are
exploitable only locally, or under very specific and rare circumstances, yet
are still flagged as "critical" and bundled with user interface updates.

Then you rode in on your horse, citing car accidents and seat belts, which
really doesn't help in the context of having control over when system updates
are performed. Nobody said "never update". It's about control over when those
updates happen.

> _...but the rest of us are going to take care, and would appreciate if you
> didn 't contribute to..._

You're having a hard enough time speaking for yourself, please don't branch
out to speaking for others.

------
ezoe
I keep Windows just for gaming so I am immune to this issue. Hell, I even wish
Windows installation completely break so I can try Wine.

What I don't get about Windows Update is, that it requires multiple reboots.
Why? Also it took long time to process something on first login after the
update. What are they doing?

~~~
lostlogin
There is a teacher in the house and their relatively new laptop is a complete
POS for many reasons, but the windows side of things is an abomination. It has
to be opened for a few a while each week to let it download, restart and
generally make a fool of itself. If you don’t the software update debt
compounds rapidly and it completely breaks.

------
newnewpdro
It has never ceased to amaze me the abuse MS customers continue to tolerate.

Edit: Not that I'm suggesting Apple is any better. Proprietary software in
general tends to exploit its users in various ways, if not initially,
eventually.

~~~
coeroble
I don't understand how having a data loss bug means Microsoft is "exploiting
their users"

~~~
teddyh
Anyone can make a mistake in making a new software update. But Microsoft, like
any proprietary software vendor, is denying their users the right and ability
to discover and fix problems for themselves, or to hire anyone to do it for
them; Microsoft reserves this right exclusively to themselves, and thereby do
their users a tremendous disservice.

------
art0rz
I have been running Windows since 3.11 and have never had any of the issues
with Windows Update described in this thread since the XP days. Don't think
these issues are common, just the vocal minority.

~~~
JoshuaAshton
You're obviously blind then.

------
z3t4
I've never had a issue with Windows Update, but it can sometimes take hours
and I like to imagine wth it's doing. My theory is that Microsoft has acres of
test computers, so that when I run an upgrade they spin up a computer that
match mine, install all the apps and drivers I have, runs the update, and runs
some automated tests ...

------
Krasnol
I personally never used those folder for my documents/music/etc. It wasn't a
problem until programs started putting their stuff in there. This is part of
the "must-put-on-C:\" behavior you see in much win software that I loathe. A
constant pain and reason that C:\ seems never to be big enough.

~~~
dzek69
Funny thing..

What I heard - this problem (removing files from folders like Documents,
Downloads) happens only when you actually move storage of these. Yes, you can
move Documents folder into D: and things will work just fine. But this is
where this bug will hit you.

I moved my Downloads folder, nothing much to loose here, but I'll surely do a
backup of everything before updating.

~~~
Moru
We just dont use the documents folder. Create a folder on D ans save
everything there. Just dont tell windows where your data is and you are fine
:)

------
ben_jones
The only reason I use windows 10 is for gaming. The millisecond linux gaming
is supported by all the games I love I will be paying whatever price necessary
to drop windows for ever. I use OS X for work and find it a near perfect
developer experience for my rather pedestrian use cases.

~~~
mikelward
See if your games are supported by Steam Play (a.k.a. Proton).

[https://spcr.netlify.com](https://spcr.netlify.com)

------
le-mark
Do businesses even use windows 10? Every company I've been at has been windows
7, only one was windows 8.1 a couple of years ago.

~~~
micv
Windows 7 is pretty close to EOL now. Companies might not have migrated off it
yet, but they're going to have basically no choice in short order. I doubt
Microsoft are going to suddenly change how they handle updating the OS in the
next year or so -- at the end of the day, there's no real competition for the
business desktop -- so I expect we all have some fun and games to look forward
to.

~~~
Reelin
For what it's worth, I'm a home user still on Windows 7 plus a bit of Ubuntu.
When Windows 7 finally hits EOL, that's it for Windows for me. After having
had the displeasure of using family members' MacOS or newer Windows devices a
few times, I'm out.

------
JepZ
They probably just want to push their cloud services, so that you 'Never lose
a file due to some broken update!' :-D

~~~
anticensor
Windows 10 Licensing terms § 6 says "The software periodically checks for
system and app updates, and downloads and installs them for you. You may
obtain updates only from Microsoft or authorized sources, and Microsoft may
need to update your system to provide you with those updates. By accepting
this agreement, you agree to receive these types of automatic updates without
any additional notice."

------
shkkmo
I have a dual boot machine with windows 10 on a slow platter drive and ubuntu
on a very fast SSD. I only ever launch windows to play games... and I hate it.
I don't launch windows very often and as soon as I do it starts hammering the
disk downloading and processing updates. Even before it tries to actually
complete the update, it makes the computer almost unusable for an
unpredictable period of time.

------
sebazzz
I did upgrade to Windows 10 1809 and fortunately didn't run into any issues.
However, I suspect there is a memory leak somewhere. After running Visual
Studio for a while, almost my entire system memory was eaten but the total sum
of memory for the running programs don't add up to the amount of "In use"
memory.

~~~
dzek69
This is a common thing. I'm not such tech person to go deep into the details,
but it's usually ok if you get back that memory when you close everything.

I had thison Windows 7 with Opera (can't remember if it was 12 or newer one
already).

------
arountheworld
It seems like they forget people pay for this crap. I wonder if there is a
class action possible against them.

------
supernovae
I hope they get it fixed quickly and I hope they listen to user feedback
more... I just hope we don't go back into old ways of years between service
packs. I for one enjoy the frequent fixes - much better than those "Service
pack" years of having to deal with crap for so long.

------
amluto
I have a little Windows VM with a very small disk. It’s so small that Windows
Update can’t run :)

------
bobbob1921
it seems Windows 10 was where the tide turned on mandatory / forced automatic,
while also making it pretty difficult to disable (and when you do disable
updates other issues can arise that have nothing to do w the windows update
service ,although pretty rarely )

I think the reason Microsoft decided to force these auto updates with windows
10 is due to the bad rap they got over the years for security and vulns ( in
their defense part of that was just simply due to the insane marketshare
windows enjoyed for so long, and still does for the most part , although to a
lesser degree than before).

------
mkup
That's why we developed a product which main feature is to aid in installation
of Windows 7 to new PCs:

[https://www.prime-
expert.com/flashboot/features_v3/install-w...](https://www.prime-
expert.com/flashboot/features_v3/install-windows7-to-new-laptop-or-new-pc/)

There's a growing community of users and developers who restrict themselves to
Windows 7. Forever. Win7 EOL soon, so no updates from Microsoft? Fine. It's a
feature. Updates from Microsoft are no good anyway.

------
paul-sebastianm
Just yesterday I was commenting about how Windows developers are still
adjusting to the corporate's latest business idea, rolling releases and
hopefully TDD. Now I'm sorry to have been so kind. This kind of shit shouldn't
escape testing. Touching files that shouldn't be touched? Really? Is that how
much Microsoft cares about the safety of their user's data?

------
rkagerer
Why I refuse to have "upgrades" shoved down my throat on someone else's
schedule.

------
kolderman
I'm still on the April update. Skipped July update after all the issues there
- thinking I'll just wait for the October issue where they will _surely_ not
make another mess of it.

Oh well, there's always 2019...

------
spacehome
Is it possible to use a firewall (pfsense or similar) to block all access to
the Windows update and telemetry servers? Or will Windows just stop working
after thinking it’s offline long enough?

------
Havoc
Well I've been getting bluescreens on reboots since the last round. So yeah
it's not been peachy lately

------
besfort
I wish i read this just 30mins before :(

------
chu121su12
I am using Asus A442uq, and the latest update made secure boot inactive. I had
the laptop erased.

------
cmurf
If you aren't backing up your data, the data isn't that important.

~~~
slantyyz
I wonder if Windows File History (provided it was enabled before the update)
could have helped with this problem. These days, it's one of the first things
I install on Windows machines.

I had been very dependent on Time Machine before I switched back to Windows a
few years ago, and I'm kinda surprised that MS doesn't push File History the
same way Apple did with Time Machine. I don't see it mentioned very often when
it comes to backing up data on Windows.

------
dpkonofa
How the mighty have fallen... :(

------
tonetheman
Testing something like Windows/Windows updates at scale is hard. So bugs will
happen. But deleting docs is gross.

I can imagine there was tense meeting somewhere in MS where the choice was
made to stop the update. I would have liked to have been there...

~~~
whatshisface
If you're a company the size of Microsoft, "hard" just means "expensive."
There is certianly no question that Microsoft is able to produce Windows
updates that do not have these problems. Apple has been doing automatic
updates for years - but we don't hear similar stories coming from that camp,
because they put in the necessary QA effort.

~~~
etaoins
Apple had a very similar bug in the initial release of Snow Leopard:

[https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-acknowledges-snow-leopard-
da...](https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-acknowledges-snow-leopard-data-loss-
issue/)

