
NZ considering $100M contact tracing ‘CovidCard’ - Calcite
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/04/17/1132682/nz-considering-100m-contact-tracing-covidcard
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teruakohatu
Kiwi here, I belive this is either snake oil or a conceptual idea rather than
a product. The media are touting it as credit card sized device, but with a
battery it would need to be much thicker.

Here in lockdown we are allowed to go for a walk or cycle. Potentially this
card could register thousands of contacts.

~~~
Taniwha
Yeah - I design this sort of thing and I can't understand how the power
management of this thing works - battery life has to be a month or so (or it's
a cm thick).

Remember that when you're talking at GHz (ie BT) you have to keep your receive
PLLs powered up to receive data, that's ~1/2 the power requirements of short
distance transmitting

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teruakohatu
Some media here have claimed a 6 months to a year of battery life. I am very
skeptical.

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Taniwha
Exactly - I'm not saying it can't be done, just that I'm highly highly
skeptical

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teruakohatu
Just noticed the username. Feel free to shoot me an email, would be keen to
hear what kind of work you do in nz.

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popped
Surely just installing an app voluntarily would get enough tracing to be
effective?

As a kiwi who has spent half my life living in different countries, I can say
trust in the government here, while not universal, is higher than anywhere
else I've been. I think most people would do it

~~~
boznz
Agree. compared to the shit-storms politicians are creating in other countries
I'm sort of proud of the way our government acted so decisively and
unilaterally, and I generally get the feeling they are acting for the good of
the people not themselves.

I can already see the cracks appearing as some idiots try to score points or
promote their own agendas and the media are happy to give them air time, the
"covidcard" or phone tracing app will open another one of those cracks even
though like you say the majority would conform

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dimensi0nal
"The only central register of card IDs would be held by the Government and
isolated from other Government databases, so it could not be used for anything
other than Covid-19 contact tracing."

What does "could not" mean, anyway?

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tastroder
Same argument currently being brought by the German PEPP-PT project. I really
don't get why they push for these centralised solutions when clearly defined
decentralised models exist.

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voldacar
>I really don't get why they push for these centralised solutions when clearly
defined decentralised models exist.

power

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barbegal
The big problem with all radio based contact tracing solutions is the
receiver. Receivers use at a minimum several mW of power. A typical Bluetooth
low energy receiver will use about 50mW so will drain a coin cell battery in a
day. Bluetooth low energy saves energy by transmitting for very short periods
of time so transmit power is low but receiver power can be high. Even asking
most consumers to leave their phone's Bluetooth recovery on all day is a big
ask because of the impact on battery life.

Schemes could be designed to better synchronise receivers and transmitters so
the receiver can be switched off most of the time but this currently can't be
done with Bluetooth.

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dmitrygr
Your phone's Bluetooth scanning IS always on if it's an iPhone or Android.
Always. By default.

~~~
barbegal
That may be true when the screen is on, but from my experience scanning is not
switched on in sleep modes on iPhones and most Android phones. I don't have
definitive proof of this but I have never seen a modern phone be able to
reliably scan whilst in sleep mode for any long period of time.

~~~
dmitrygr
it is on just at a lower duty cycle.

source: worked on this for a few years at googl, both chromeos and android

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aaron695
Once again we ignore Asia and their clear lessons with covid-19 because they
are not enough like us.

Electronic solutions don't work, even in compliant countries like Singapore
they don't, it's boots on the ground that does.

Here's a good write up on Australia's attempts as they stand -

[https://medium.com/swlh/some-basic-points-on-contact-
tracing...](https://medium.com/swlh/some-basic-points-on-contact-tracing-
apps-7dc4df1442f2)

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anpago
With all the issues with tracing apps listed. I can see the systems around the
world causing more problems than benefits for the person in the street.

Possibly the concern for many of ending up causing massive issues in their
social and work circles. Will mean many simply wrap in tinfoil if indeed they
bother to carry at all.

No body wants to be known as the person who sat the otherside of a drywall
partition to someone covid 19 positive. Which meant they then basically
quartined for two weeks all their work mates in a role which was not WFH
compatible and hit them all in the wallet.

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usaar333
The arguments the promoting organization is using against a smartphone app
(e.g. Google and Apple's thing) are pretty dubious. That seems like the
easiest way to do digital tracing by far.

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mikedilger
"Without fast case isolation after restrictions ease, modelling shows that the
virus could spread exponentially and ultimately kill 100,000 Kiwis."

The left out the word "unreasonable". "Unresaonable modelling shows..."

See the Tailrisk analysis:
[http://www.tailrisk.co.nz/documents/Corona.pdf](http://www.tailrisk.co.nz/documents/Corona.pdf)

~~~
Taniwha
Yeah but the Tailrisk guy is not an epidemiologist, he's out of treasury and
naturally has is more economy focused outlook.

One person's "unreasonable" can be another's "sensible caution"

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mikedilger
You're right about that guy. So I'll be more specific. The model that shows
large numbers like 14,400 (not even 100,000) presumes we do NO contact tracing
at all (not just slower contact tracing). I'd wager most people would agree
that is an unreasonable assumption.

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james_s_tayler
I think if they could both work in conjunction with each other that would be
ideal. I'd try the app for sure, but success rate doesn't seem to be high
enough in Singapore for an app only to be the sole solution. Use as many
approaches as you can make compatible ups the chances of uptake.

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m463
This reminds me of schools early on who wanted to give all their students
ipads.

Hello? fundamentals go much further than tech magic bullets.

For instance, the chinese took people's temperatures.

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mr_toad
The conspiracy theorists almost had it right. It’s not tinfoil hats we need,
it’s tinfoil bags and pockets.

