
German prosecutors charge ex-Audi boss Stadler over emissions cheating - reddotX
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-audi-emissions-probe/german-prosecutors-charge-ex-audi-boss-stadler-over-emissions-cheating-idUSKCN1UQ0PM
======
dustinmoris
> Audi said in a statement on Wednesday that it was in the interest of the
> company, its shareholders and employees to clarify the issues that led to
> the diesel crisis.

“Until this has happened, the presumption of innocence must prevail,” the
spokesman said.

In this case, I don't see how the presumption of innocence can prevail. Let's
not forget, this was not a manufacturing error, an oversight or some other
engineering "mistake" which could be explained in a plausible way. Someone
purposefully engineered a device and software, which had no other purpose than
manipulating emission tests with the intent to create an unlawful advantage
for the company. The idea, plan and execution of such a software could have
only happened by some execs at Volkswagen and Audi. This is a clear criminal
offense with clear intend and the only question is how many need to go into
jail for this, not if someone should be jailed.

~~~
gattilorenz
No, that's not how it should work. I know what you mean, but the presumption
of innocence is there until there is a final decision by a judge. You don't
suspend the presumption of innocence just because it seems clear that a felony
happened, otherwise it's almost never there.

~~~
rusk
presumption of innocence is on the individual, not on whether there was a
crime or not

e.g. murder, there is no doubt that _somebody_ is guilty, but but all suspects
benefit from presumption of innocence.

~~~
dustinmoris
Precisely what I meant! In my comment I did not accuse any individuals
specifically. I said "someone" must have committed a crime here and that this
is clear from the case and therefore we cannot presume innocence, just need to
focus who are the offenders, but not if there was a criminal offense in the
first place.

~~~
lagadu
Yes, a criminal offense took place but we don't even know whether any of the
accused are guilty. Knowing that a crime took place is pointless if you can't
figure out who is to blame.

~~~
tremon
That's not entirely true, because even if we don't know who, we can know about
the how and why, and try to limit such crimes in the future.

In this specific case, knowing that the crime took place has already led to
different and more varied emissions testing.

------
thender21
The German government is most likely deeply, deeply ashamed and embarrassed
that its own engineers would have 'cheated'. Not only is Automotive
Engineering the pride of the nation but a lot of German industry and
investment was tied to Diesel as a future low emissions transport technology.

They're going to follow and prosecute this like blood hounds.

~~~
jellicle
It is 2019 and this came out in 2015. At a minimum, these are the world's
slowest blood hounds.

I'm not privy to German politics but if the political situation is ANYTHING
like what I would expect, diligent prosecution of corporate malfeasance is
roughly the last priority of government prosecutors, well behind prosecuting
jaywalking and spitting on the sidewalk.

~~~
skgoa
Sorry, but you are completely incorrect in this matter. White collar crime is
prosecuted fiercly in Germany, especially when it's a case that got public
attention. However it takes far longer than it would in the US, because
prosecutors are extremely thorough to guarantee a conviction.

We have far less of an acceptance of plea bargains. Pre-trial deals are almost
unheard of, because the defendent can "come clean" at any time of the trial
and the timing must not enter the judgement to their detriment. OTOH a
defendent also has nothing to gain from co-operating early beyond whatever
he/she is absolutely required by law to do. This means that the prosecussion
will almost always have to do the entire work of proving beyond any reasonable
doubt that the accused is guilty. Which they have to do on paper long before
the first hearing is held.

Hence, cases brought to trial in Germany are generally water-tight. Stadler is
almost definitely going to prison. The only question is for how long and who
else he implicates.

~~~
Scoundreller
But is there a difference between how, say, $1m in embezzling funds from a
corporation or defrauding someone out of their money is prosecuted, versus
doing something that props up your national industry?

~~~
wsy
No, as the case at hand shows. Actually, the prosecutors seem to have done an
amazing job, given that usually top management manages to isolate themselves
quite will from shady practices of their corporation.

------
StreamBright
I would expect similar proceeding for Boeing about the MCAS disaster.

~~~
lrem
There's a difference in the politics, isn't there? At least looking at the
surface, German response to dieselgate is "we'll get to the bottom of this",
while US response to MCAS is "we'll retaliate against Airbus".

~~~
wil421
There is a DOJ probe[1] into Boeing’s 737 MAX and 787. We don’t really know
what is happening behind the scenes. Individual employees have been subpoenaed
from Boeing.

It doesn’t sound much different from Audi except the dieselgate is from 2015.
The German prosecutors have had 4 years.

[1][https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-
aerospace/feder...](https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-
aerospace/federal-prosecutors-issue-subpoena-for-boeing-787-dreamliner-
records/)

~~~
lrem
Oh, I'm sure the career professionals in the proper departments will do their
job. I was referring to what politicians say.

------
GrumpyNl
Its about time that we take care of the blue collar criminals.

------
brogrammer2018
[Removed]

~~~
usaphp
But any company would do the same. If it’s outside of a warranty period - they
won’t fix anything for free

~~~
gavia1
$35,000 is a lot of cash for a new transmission.

But if the car is 5 years out of warranty why not take it to a specialist who
would charge much less?

What was the fault? It must had been a severe gearbox failure to warrant a
complete replacement rather than a rebuild.

