
Show HN: Off-grid web server for the developing world - MichaelAO
http://challengepost.com/software/project-seed/
======
fubu
I've actually been playing around with a local network consisting of a single
wifi router attached to an old netbook as a server. Have you considered
attaching an off the self wifi router attached to an external battery pack?

There are economies of scale on external battery packs that run 12v(common
wifi router DC voltage) and marine batteries also can run 12v. You could
create a new power cable that never does the dc to ac conversion and use that
battery pack for the wifi. Then you could run the raspberry pi or other system
as the server itself.

Nice idea and don't worry about the Africa haters. Plenty of stuff is
originally made for mid 20s SF techies that ends up being useful for a whole
lot of other people.

~~~
cbolton97
Thanks for the tip! Exactly the info we were looking for when we posted on HN
:)

~~~
fubu
Great to hear. I haven't looked into the project fully, so I'll apologize in
advance if you already have a solution for what I describe below.

I used a catch all DNS wildcard with a dnsmasq rule which I set up on a DD-WRT
flashed router.

address=/#/192.168.11.2

That IP was the IP of my server. The nice part of that rule is that many
people will type in google.com or something similar when they find your open
wifi spot assuming they are connected to the web. The wildcard will resolve
that the the IP of the local server and send them there automatically. That
can be the landing page of the network that introduces things, provides links
etc.

~~~
MichaelAO
We ended up using an mDNS ([http://www.avahi.org/](http://www.avahi.org/))
that pointed towards hostname.local - not perfect, but we didn't have to use
the IP address anymore. The catch all is a much better idea.

------
moreentropy
For creating decentralized mesh networks, it might help to look at what the
freifunk project has done. Freifunk is a community project that builds open
mesh networks (mostly in Germany) using cheap (€15-20 range) off the shelf
routers. The routers usually provide two wifi networks, an open access point
as well as a mesh interface that will mesh with all other access points in
range.

The used firmware (called "Gluon") is based on OpenWRT and all open source:

[http://gluon.readthedocs.org/en/v2014.3/](http://gluon.readthedocs.org/en/v2014.3/)
[https://github.com/freifunk-gluon/gluon](https://github.com/freifunk-
gluon/gluon)

[http://freifunk.net/en/](http://freifunk.net/en/)

Apart from that, for communicating with systems that have no or only temporary
internet access, the pretty ancient UUCP protocol comes to mind:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UUCP](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UUCP)

I actually had my first email and news accounts subscribed over the UUCP
protocol. The main advantage of UUCP is that it will queue all data destined
for a remote system and asynchronously transfer everything when a system is
reachable. It is also possible to relay data using multiple hops that are not
online at the same time. It was used mostly with dial up systems that were
only online during data transfers.

So with UUCP it might be possible to implement a sort of drive-by update where
a mobile node (maybe installed in a car) can connect to a local server,
exchange incoming/outgoing messages and relay them to the node in the next
village when the driver moves on.

~~~
ualisha
Thanks for the resources! We will definitely check them out

------
deserted
Be sure to do some load testing with multiple simultaneous users! In my
experience using a Pi as a Wi-Fi hotspot can be pretty unreliable.

~~~
MichaelAO
Good point. The Pi made sense for the hackathon. What type of wifi antenna
have you used?
[http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=76604](http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=76604)

------
martin_
This could be great - what do you need, and how do we help?

~~~
MichaelAO
Thank you! At this point, we're going to work on the code base and experiment
with different hardware setups before deploying. It'd be great if others would
contribute on github and build their own. Other than that, helping us connect
with organizations that might benefit from this type of technology would be
great.

~~~
jk4930
Have a look at the recently announced Global Learning XPRIZE (see
[http://www.xprize.org/press-release/gordon-brown-
endorses-15...](http://www.xprize.org/press-release/gordon-brown-
endorses-15-million-global-learning-xprize-united-nations-education-forum) ).
Soon teams will register and some could be interested. Or run/join a team.

------
doodlebugging
This recent successful Kickstarter may have covered some of the bases you're
trying to cover. [http://www.brck.com/#thebrck](http://www.brck.com/#thebrck)

------
krrishd
I'm really glad that a lot of hackathon projects are addressing YC's RFS
categories, a lot of good can come out of these.

------
MichaelAO
We built this over the weekend at Hack the North. All of the code, along with
an SD image for the Pi can be found on github:
[https://github.com/alisha/seed](https://github.com/alisha/seed) It was a
really fun project and the hackathon was great - Sam Altman made a cameo! Feel
free to ask any questions.

------
jameshk
Hey! I was at the talk during Hack the North in which you practiced your
pitch. Awesome job!

~~~
MichaelAO
Thanks! Have you recovered from the weekend yet? It was intense. What'd you
built?

------
andrewchambers
My problem with all the save Africa hardware/software projects, is they seem
to be made by people who don't live in Africa. I'm not confident they even
have a grip on what the customers actually want or need.

~~~
korzun
Everybody in Africa has portable devices, they are just missing this useless
$10 hotspot gimmick with pre-loaded Wikipedia to get their information on
Ebola.

~~~
steven77723
The project did work on palm os so I'm assuming it would work on almost any
other device as well

[http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/04/tech/mobile/africa-mobile-
opin...](http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/04/tech/mobile/africa-mobile-opinion/)

~~~
korzun
Did you just link to an article about people in South Africa using mobile
phones in 2012? You realize that SA has been rolling out good infrastructure
for a while now? Right?

Do you think people in South Africa need this thing to read about Ebola in
2014? How ignorant are you really?

Signed up 3 hours ago. Surprise.

~~~
steven77723
Of course not, as the project isn't geared for people with existing
infrastructure that allow them to access the Internet without any problem.
Rather it is for the community that may have a mobile device but cannot access
the Internet as easily. Of course not all people in such developing countries
would have a mobile device but if we take the scope a little big bigger and
say, a village, then there is a higher chance of a mobile device within such a
community. Through this, we hope that information may be much more accessible
to such audiences. It was my bad about that link, wasn't the most appropriate
one.

------
brandonhsiao
Why is Linux/Nginx/MySQL/PHP abbreviated LEMP?

~~~
jameshk
The E is for Nginx, which is pronounced "Engine X"

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qwerta
My android phone can do just that.... It provides WIFI router, hosts USB
hdd...

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xellisx
I'm surprised it wasn't done in Node.JS and a "NoSQL" DB.

------
korzun
> We've specifically implemented an Ebola prevention section, as Seed 1.0 will
> be deployed in Africa.

Stop using Africa for your advancement. You obviously live in a bubble.

~~~
cbolton97
Not trying to "use" Africa. Just trying to make something that could help
people. The description is a little rough but I truly believe that once we
start talking with the groups that have specific requirements for each region,
these devices could do some good.

~~~
korzun
What in the world are you talking about.

