
Who Works With ‘Creative Coders?’ - jgv
http://timstutts.com/post/33707922665/who-works-with-creative-coders
======
dljsjr
I agree with all of the sentiments in the article, but the one small thing
that I do disagree with is the conflation of the word "creative" with what the
author seems to indicate are artistic or graphical/visual disciplines.

I believe that all programming, whether or not it's graphical or "artistic" in
nature, is creative. Development is just as much a craft as it is a logical
discipline. Learning algorithms, data structures, and software engineering
techniques is only half the battle. As "coders", we are knowledge workers. Our
job is to solve a problem; the discipline of computer programming is nothing
more than a tool that we use to solve our problems. And creative thinking can
be utilized any time someone needs to solve a problem.

Most truly great programmers and/or computer scientists, at least in my
opinion, held on to some level of creativity. Dijkstra never developed a
single GUI in his life, but saying that the work he did wasn't "creative"
would be insulting. You could say similar things about people such as von
Neumann, or even more concrete computer scientists like Kay, Stroustrup, etc.

The idea that creativity is inherently tied to "emotional" pursuits like art,
design, music, etc. is a little reductionist. Creativity, like programming, is
a tool. It's the ability to enter a creative mindset and use creative thought
processes to approach a problem, and it is also a refinable skill and not a
trait. Creative thinking is just as approachable and general as critical
thinking, but so often people who aren't "artistic" reduce themselves to also
being not "creative", and I don't think that's very correct.

One of the best descriptions of creativity I've ever heard was in a talk
delivered by John Cleese. If you have 30 minutes, I highly recommend watching
it: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VShmtsLhkQg>

~~~
minimax
I think in this context he's using "creative" in the sense that it's used in
the advertising industry. A creative is someone who actually works on
developing an advertisement, rather than, say, someone buying up airtime. The
companies on the list are almost all advertising agencies. It's just the
industry nomenclature and I don't think he meant to say that programmers in
the non-advertising world aren't creative.

~~~
timtadh
That may be true but I find the term denigrating towards programmers. This
isn't the advertising industry and their nomenclature isn't appropriate here.
It implies a "non-creative" type of programmer. It also implies most
programmers are of a "non-creative" type. Furthermore, the implication is
those programmers, since they are by definition non-creative, don't do their
own thinking.

The term may not technically mean the above however the implication is there.

~~~
notatoad
>It implies a "non-creative" type of programmer. It also implies most
programmers are of a "non-creative" type.

i don't think that's an unfair implication. There is plenty of programming
that has no creative aspect, and i'd say the majority of programmers are not
creatives. It's a term with a well-accepted industry definition, and if you
start defining it as broadly as you want to you could probably apply it to
just about any job, anywhere in the world. The guy wiring up power poles
outside my office does his own thinking, does that make his job creative?

~~~
timtadh
> i don't think that's an unfair implication.

we will have to disagree there. which is fine.

> if you start defining it as broadly as you want to you could probably apply
> it to just about any job, anywhere in the world. The guy wiring up power
> poles outside my office does his own thinking, does that make his job
> creative?

Which is my point. I am not saying all programmers to should be called
"creative." However, calling a portion of them creative is inaccurate. It also
doesn't really get at what OP wanted to get at which is: A programmer with
visual arts training/skills.

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dataglam
In my experience, 'creative coding' work opportunities happen in the follow
ways:

\- Personal connections are huge. Agencies, especially those connected with
advertising, are likely not tech-savvy enough to understand the specific
contribution that you can bring to a project. They will often rely on someone
who already has rapport and knowledge of creative coding within their
organization to recruit more talent. Its to your advantage to know those
people.

\- Have presence in the community of your creative coding platform(s) of
choice as an expert. Answer question on the forums. Teach workshops. Write
tutorials. Or simply just share work. To that end, you might be able to build
rapport with the people mentioned in the first point.

\- Create compelling projects using creative coding platforms, whether its a
_useful_ data visualization or just a thing of beauty. It doesn't have to be a
paid project. Then promote the heck out of it. Invite people to blog about it,
critique it. Absorb the critique. Share the code on github. A lot of work gets
created in these communities that goes unnoticed because it doesn't get to the
right channels.

\- Build a compelling portfolio that non-tech/creative types can appreciate,
but at the same time doesn't remove you of your hacker cred--it should be
obvious that you coded this stuff in the written language that you use and the
images that your present. In grad school, you might have been able to present
each project as fun or research, but now you need to shift the presentation in
a way that offers value to the outside world. Consider the practical
applications of what you've created (even if practical had originally been the
last thing on your mind) and list those (e.g. "this kind of dynamic 3D data
visualization could be used to visualize data x more effectively because..."
). The other option is to have a portfolio that only the creative coding
community will appreciate. But than it will be up to someone else to convince
business-minded folks to work with you.

\- It may be to your benefit to take a standard gig as an Engineer or
Interaction Designer before attempting to do something like this
professionally. A creative coder who has engineering, graphic design, or
interaction design professional experience can be a huge asset to a project.
It may also be an entry point for discussion with the people that you are
working with, who may not really get what you are doing otherwise. Also, you
may choose to (or financially need to) do other work between these special
projects, so doing something complimentary could be a good use of your time.

\- It's important to keep coding. Don't wait for paid projects to fall into
your lap. The people who do this well live and breath this stuff, and
sometimes after a full days work on a commercial gig, go home and work on an
art project project or even putting together their own library or framework.

~~~
dataglam
...this is in response to an earlier comment: "I've applied to a lot of these
places and haven't gotten replies – it's my understanding that it's much
better to approach through personal connections."

~~~
dataglam
Another point:

\- Firms both large and small may not seem interested in your skill-set until
the moment that they are in need of it, so when reaching out, you may want to
choose your phraseology from "i'm looking for a job" to "when you have a
project, i'd be interested" If you get in touch with an actual person, it may
also be advantageous to ask them when do these kinds of projects come up
within their organization and for which clients. If their organization has
many offices around the world, find out if there's a specific office that
deals with that kind of work.

------
msutherl
Thanks for this! I'm among the new batch of students that are the subject of
this article and currently looking for jobs in NY. I've been maintaining a
similar list, but yours contains a number of additions for which I'm grateful.

Some advice: I've applied to a lot of these places and haven't gotten replies
– it's my understanding that it's much better to approach through personal
connections.

A few companies not on your list that that focus on creative coding:

– Moment Factory

– ESKI Inc.

– GSM Project

– United Visual Artists

– Light Surgeons

– Tangible Interaction

– Drawing and Manual

– Kimchi and Chips

– Jonpasang

– Hybe

– DinahMoe

A few more traditional agencies that appear to hire "creative coders":

– Sid Lee

– Rockwell Group

– Invisible Light Network

– Obscura Digital

– Razorfish

– Wieden + Kennedy

– Big Spaceship

~~~
orangethirty
Please add Nuuton, though it is not an agency, but a startup.

Apply by sending me an email (on profile). Note: currently internships are
available.

------
callmevlad
This is a very exciting trend, and I'm glad more designers are jumping into
code. As an art school dropout who later finished a CS degree, the combination
of skills is invaluable.

I honestly believe that the most difficult work in creating something
new/innovative is skewed to the design side, so I hope we see a corresponding
trend as well: programmers becoming more interested in design.

I like to think of 'creative coders' as great chefs - not only can they dream
up a great tasting dish, they can also roll up their sleeves and turn it into
an actual meal. A (web/app) designer who shies away from code is like the
visionary chef who needs to rely on others to do the cooking, while a
programmer who is not concerned with design is little more than a line cook
following instructions.

Edit: spelling.

~~~
shrub
> while a programmer who is not concerned with design is little more than a
> line cook following instructions.

I disagree with this and am inclined to take offence. Programming is not at
all like following a simple recipe. Perhaps if the chef specifies that the
line cooks must raise special chickens to be slaughtered for the main dish,
keeps a herb garden that the line cooks have to maintain, puts the line cooks
in charge of estimating and purchasing ingredients, and gets them to
experiment with genetically engineering food to taste good in the dish, maybe
then there is hope for a comparison.

~~~
callmevlad
Sorry, I did not mean to offend. And I admit that in hindsight it is a weak
analogy at best.

When I wrote that, I was thinking of consumer software specifically, and by a
"programmer who is not concerned with design" I had in mind those that just
care about implementation details, while not valuing the importance of end
user experience. And I've met quite a few programmers like this, mostly in
larger companies. You know you've found one when their sentences start with
"Why doesn't the user just..."

In your expanded example, the fact that the line cook is concerned with the
taste of the dish (e.g. after genetic modification) already implies that they
care about the "design" of the dish. If, however, there is much more concern
around how the cookware is organized in the kitchen, or which brand of
vegetable oil should be bought, that has almost no tangible benefits to the
person eating the meal.

~~~
whatshisface
>If, however, there is much more concern around how the cookware is organized
in the kitchen, or which brand of vegetable oil should be bought, that has
almost no tangible benefits to the person eating the meal.

I think you are only looking at one side of the multiplier effect. Yes,
organizing cookware does not prepare food, but have you ever tried to cook
when all your tools are in a drawer, piled together? Design leads
implementation and implementation gives substance to design. Valuing one over
the other is like saying a car's engine is more important than it's gas pedal.

So, why not have specialized workers? It makes sense to me that the people who
don't understand the needs of the average user would be the perfect people to
have slog through the mess of poorly designed APIs that pretty much every
project ever will have to deal with at some point.

------
pawelwentpawel
I'm happy to see this thread on front page. Some of those projects seem to be
very challenging and interesting. I would be careful however with the
_creative coder_ concept. Most of the work done in interactive installations
is highly unusual and takes from graphics programming, computer vision,
physics programming and sometimes integration with social media. Solid
programming background is a must - I don't really see how knowing processing
or three.js suddenly makes you a _creative coder_. I would rather define it as
a all-round developer with loads of ideas on how to make unconventional
combinations of technology work together.

------
jakedahn
I got a degree like this from the art institutes international minnesota. It
was far more frontend-web centric but we did have the chance to dive deeper
into things like processing, arduino, and openframeworks. However most of the
students werent that bright, but the faculty was fantastic and curriculum was
solid.

I think the bigest difference between 'creative programmers' and programmers
from a traditional computer science background is the perspective in which
they look at code, and engineering problems. 'Creative programmers' approach
things with an emphasis on the discovery process which, I think, allows them
to understand the things they are working on in more of an organic context.
Whereas people from a traditional computer science background tend to approach
things with a systematic view of the things they are working on.

The difference can look sublte, but it is real. I think having an organic
understanding of a product enables 'creative programmers' to build an end to
end product (from user interaction to the inner workings), whereas traditional
computer science programmers will specialize on a single aspect.

------
jankins
I find this interesting because as a former artist, the reason I love
programming is that it scratches the same creative itch.

I'm not sure if I fit in the 'Creative Coders' category, since though I was an
aspiring artist prior to getting into development, I was never commercially
successful at it, and I'm really not a good designer since I find commercial
art pretty tedious.

Programming, however, is another thing altogether; within about a year of
beginning from scratch, I got a job at one of the companies in this list
(Mirada) leading development on an interactive storytelling app. One thing
that I think gave me a good edge was some development experience in the
entertainment realm -- I had made an iPhone app to help screenwriters organize
their thoughts, and got a chance to make an app for a comic book trying to get
off the ground.

I also know that we're currently looking for more iOS developers (especially
with OpenGL experience) so the development side is only growing.

~~~
kellishaver
I feel similarly. I studied art in school-my degree is in fine art, with an
area of focus on design. I spent a lot of time after I graduated working as a
frustrated designer. My clients were happy, but nothing was ever "good enough"
in the feels really satisfying sense.

Then I shifted my focus to development and I get a lot more satisfaction out
of it. I find that it suits my particular brand of creativity and attention to
technical details. I love the problem solving, and conjuring up working
software out of nothing.

I still do some design work, and I still enjoy it, but I do it on my own
terms, or I do things like interfaces - again, more technical in nature.

I quite like doing the occasional pencil or marker drawing, because it's good
stress relief.

But it's programming that really satisfies my need to create.

------
catshirt
an upvote would probably be sufficient, but wanted to say thanks to the author
for making a great list. i've been looking for this!

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datalus
I wonder if any places like hacker school, et. al. have creative coding
projects? I would be inclined to think that hacker school is probably the one
that would be closest, as the other places seem more focused on web
development.

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daralthus
have a look at the job board at creative applications net:
<http://www.creativeapplications.net/job-board/>

