
Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US - deepuj
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/oct/28/-sp-jobs-brokers-entrap-indian-tech-workers?CMP=share_btn_tw
======
kabdib
At a couple of companies I was at, an Indian jobs shop had somehow gotten
their mitts into our HR types and we were indundated with candidates who
showed up with books like "Learn Java in 12 hours" or "Windows Device Drivers
for N00bs" under their arms. Very junior types, without exception. Our
interview questions were fed back, and I had to change them a fair amount. Not
a problem.

"The guy at XYZZY will ask about hash tables, so..." and I'd ask them
questions about something else, like concurrency, to very obvious
consternation. Halfway through an interview, one candidate even asked when I
was going to ask about hash tables.

"Fine. We can talk about concurrency and hash tables."

There was an undercurrent of expectation. Their handler / manager (the
relationship was never really made clear) called me one day and said "We
expect you to give a job to several of our people. You keep changing your
questions. What is the problem?" And I would explain that I wasn't going to
hire someone junior, who we would have to teach how to do engineering, for a
senior wage.

Eventually they stopped coming, presumably having found better pastures.

~~~
xxcode
I am not sure if your response is relevant to the article, but I felt that
there is some level of superiority complex that you and many fellow humans
posses (in this case, about your superior knowledge and intellect).

Perhaps the biggest difference between you and someone applying for the job
through the h1b visa program was that they were born in a different set of
circumstances than you were. They were likely born in India whereas you were
born I the United States. As a result of being born in India, they went to a
local school there which didn't teach them about hash tables and concurrency.
Your school did, and you had a better education. This person from India is
trying to make a better life for himself despite starting at a disadvantage in
life(being born in a poor country with access to lesser educational
opportunities than you). You are welcome to reject him for the job(you can do
so at the resume screening state, especially if they don't have the relevant
skills and experience) but I think it would be useful to remember that the
other person is a human, likely disadvantaged, and express some human empathy.

~~~
kabdib
I'm perfectly happy interviewing people for junior positions. We did this
quite a bit at larger companies where junior engineers were desirable, and
there was structure that let them succeed.

But when I'm dealing with a professional organization that is basically trying
to scam my company into doing mis-hires, that's when my empathy goes dry. I
have a duty to my co-workers and my investors to not screw up hires. I see
gaming the system as a legitimate opportunity to criticize someone else's
behavior.

I agree, these junior level people are in a tough position. They're being mis-
represented and taken advantage of. It sucks. I _want_ people to succeed. But
I don't do handouts, and the practices I've seen make me mad.

Everyone in this industry sees many, many resumes from people who cannot do
the job. Everyone interviews people who don't pass. Probably everyone has seen
people fired because they couldn't perform or were doing damage. This happens.
It's not going away. And it's not pleasant.

So while it might not come across in what I wrote above, every time I affect
someone's life like this -- every time I send a "Sorry, we're not going to
proceed" email, or tell someone in an interview that we're cutting things
short today -- I feel bad about it. Sometimes a little bad, sometimes a lot.
Sometimes I agonize over a resume (and we spent quite a bit of time on a
candidate the other day, trying to come up with reasons to proceed). But the
alternatives (job charity? keeping someone on who does negative work?) are
worse. _Much_ worse.

And given all the people who _should_ be given a chance, I won't countenance
fraud. That makes me write responses that are direct and forceful and
unapologetic. These job shops are poisoning the well for the individuals who
are truly deserving, and that should make everyone mad.

------
fadzlan
Worked with one big Indian company here in Malaysia last time and I see
intimidation as common means of dealing with employees. Unfortunately, it
doesn't really work well here, since most of people have a lot of choices
moving around.

I've been pushed to accept work that has a minimum wage in a different
country, despite my experience and the fact I can't possibly survive with my
family there. I've had my resume jacked up multiple times when they sent my
resume to the client, up to the point that I had to deny I had never put
certain things on my resume.

For fresh grad though, if they quit earlier than 18 months, they have to pay
almost a year of their salary, which seems reasonable when there are trainings
when they joined the company. Except for the fact that the first year salary
of said fresh grad are being paid in full by the Malaysian government (in
exchange of hiring certain number of locals per year). Some of the trainings
are subsidized by the government too.

Which explained how they can force employees to take a much less pay than what
they are getting in other countries, where the cost of living is higher,
because they can intimidate.

Malaysia job market is much smaller than India, and such tactic didn't bode
well, since there are not much replacement to come by when people are
quitting, and smaller market means once you had bad reputation, new hires
slowed to trickle.

Now, I am not generalizing all Indian companies, there bad apples around the
world, but I am just sharing my experience on how intimidation come about. I
just find it disgusting that such practices are being practice somewhere in
the world.

~~~
reduce
"For fresh grad though, if they quit earlier than 18 months, they have to pay
almost a year of their salary, which seems reasonable when there are trainings
when they joined the company."

No, that is not ever reasonable anywhere in any situation. May be typical, but
not reasonable.

~~~
pmorici
The US government does the same thing to the American students they give
"CyberCorps" scholarships to. They have an obligation to remain in government
jobs for the same number of years that they received the scholarship for and
if they want to leave early they have to repay the scholarship.

[https://www.sfs.opm.gov/](https://www.sfs.opm.gov/)

~~~
judk
In that case, they repay the scholarship, not the salary.

~~~
pmorici
For an entry level government job the scholarship probably is equivalent to a
year of salary. Point being this sort of service requirement for scholarship
is pretty common and isn't some practice relegated to shady companies on the
other side of the world.

------
gxs
When I graduated from colllege I started working at a top tech company on a
contract to hire.

The company was paid 50/hr fore and I was paid 20 an hour. When I asked for
more, the indian-born Indian CEO of the company went apeshit on me.

No real story only that almost everyone is scum. It's not just the companies.
When I told the director of my org what I was getting paid she hired me full
time right away at a competitive salary. And I was just lucky that she
happened to like me. Other people who complained simply got let go.

I sense there is something else at play here IT work isn't that hard, yet for
some reason instead of increasing awareness that there is huge demand for
these jobs, we fly people in from india. We pay 150 bucks an hour for them,
when an eager college kid can do and would do the same job with a bit of
training for a fraction of the cost. Something else is going on here.

~~~
usernamepc
There are two reasons (both sort of hard to fix) for why contracting is
screwed up.

1\. Co-employment- Large companies like Google or Apple would love to hire
contractors directly but are very scared of being sued by contractors that can
claim they were actually employees-not contractors because of the unclear
rules around who is/is not an employee. So they introduce a staffing agency in
between to become the 'employer of record' and offset the risk.

Things like hiring and paying contractors directly, giving them laptops,
keeping them for long terms, training them, etc. actually makes a stronger
case for contractors that might want to sue them, which is why you see the
weird ways these companies treat contractors (not allowing them into morale
events, restricting how long they can work, etc.)

How to Fix- Labor laws would need to change, making it clear to companies how
they can hire contractors without becoming liable to be held as employers. New
labor marketplaces like Taskrabbit, Homejoy, Workmarket, etc. will push
lawmakers into doing something soon, but this is going to be tough given how
strongly labor unions are against this.

2\. Non-transparency. Large companies don't like to advertise that they hire
contractors. They instead give their open jobs to staffing agencies, who are
not allowed to disclose the client name when they advertise the job on job
boards. The staffing agencies are incentivized to provide the lowest cost
engineer that meets the minimum bar and these are usually the engineers on
visas that need to find a project soon or leave the country.

How to Fix- If large companies publicly share all their current contract job
openings (reqs) just like they do their full-time jobs. If that happens,
anyone can apply to those jobs and even nominate the staffing agencies they'd
be willing to work through. They already have Vendor Management Systems (VMS)
that they use to share their reqs with staffing agencies, so its just a matter
of will.

In the meantime, we
([http://www.oncontracting.com](http://www.oncontracting.com)) are trying to
solve this non-transparency by crowd-sourcing the list of preferred staffing
agencies for the Fortune 1000 companies. Contractors can avoid bad labor
brokers and instead discover who the preferred staffing agencies for any
Fortune 1000 company are and approach them directly.

~~~
eli_gottlieb
>How to Fix- Labor laws would need to change, making it clear to companies how
they can hire contractors without becoming liable to be held as employers.

Except that the entire reason these laws exist is because tech companies have
been caught using people as contractors _permanently_ , "laying them off" on a
consistent seasonable basis, and then "rehiring" them again as "contractors".
A permanently-employed worker needs to legally be considered a full-time
employee and be taxed/benefited as such.

~~~
WildUtah
What's wrong with that? Lots of people love working seasonally. Teachers,
fishermen, hospitality workers, and forest rangers can work seasonally. Why
should programmers be denied the privilege by law?

~~~
usernamepc
I'm not aware of how it works in those fields, but as I see it, trying to
burden companies with unclear laws and force artificial behavior is what is
causing the problem in this case.

For example- A large company needs a contractor and is willing to pay $75/hr
for 12 months.

Option 1- Hires you as a contractor directly for $75/hr on 1099. You get paid
well, but if they are not very savvy about independent contractor compliance,
you can still go after them in the future stating you should have been an
employee for various reasons. The IRS could also go after them for not
classifying you correctly and claim taxes missed. Good for you- Risky for
Client.

Option 2- Give the req to their staffing agencies and offer to pay them the
$75/hr. A Staffing agency finds and hires you as a permanent employee- pays
you $40/hr with benefits. Terminates you after 12 months. Large Company ended
up paying the same but has much lower risk of being considered employer
because the staffing agency was paying you and taking care of your healthcare,
etc. Same deal for Client but low risk- Bad deal for you - Good deal for
Staffing Agency.

In the quest to try and force the law upon a company, we successfully
complicated and introduced a middle-man into this process.

~~~
judk
Now the law can be improved to regulate these well understood staffing
companies.

~~~
usernamepc
There's already plenty of laws to regulate them and they work pretty well for
the most part.

The problem is if a large company wants to hire contractors directly- and not
use a staffing agency. Thats where the laws are unclear and contractors are
the ones paying for it.

------
selmnoo

        This bullying persists at the bottom of a complex system 
        that supplies workers to some of America’s richest and 
        most successful companies, such as Cisco Systems, Verizon 
        and Apple.
    

I find this extremely confusing, why companies like Facebook and Apple and
others in SV, that're sitting on an unbelievable shitload of cash take filthy
shortcuts like this, screw the very people that work for them so badly. I
mean, seriously, I'm at a loss for words. Why? Why not just pay them a
reasonable wage when you are _more_ than capable enough to?

~~~
here_you_go
Why?

Because

a) it's profitable, and

b) they can. That's all, really.

Excessive money (== power == domination of your peers) corrupts _everybody_.
We don't need any new studies to prove this.

That's the sick part of our economic culture - the "natural" tendency of
concentration of money/power (instead of spreading it as equally as possible).

~~~
flyinglizard
Efficiency. Its not Tim Cook's or any middle manager's personal money, it's
the money of the shareholders. Besides, overpaying drives all salaries up and
can spark a wage war between companies that only benefits the employees.

~~~
eli_gottlieb
>Besides, overpaying drives all salaries up and can spark a wage war between
companies that only benefits the employees.

Sounds like a great idea!

------
putlake
As bad as some of these stories are, H1-B is way better than an L1 visa. Talk
about indentured servitude. With an H1-B visa, an employee can at least change
jobs and find another employer to work for. All the other employer has to do
is transfer the H1 sponsorship, which is a few thousand dollars in fees but no
legal hassles and not much delay. So with H1, you have decent job mobility.
With the L-1 visa, which is almost never discussed in the media covering
immigration, there is ZERO job mobility. You can only work for the company
that got you to the United States from abroad where you were working for the
same company. And for Indians who are here LEGALLY, the wait for a green card
can be up to 9 years. A lot of companies make their employees wait before even
applying for a green card. So they get a good 10 years of indentured servitude
legally here in the United Sates.

~~~
jedmeyers
Some people choose L1 simply because their wife cannot work on H4 but can on
L2 spouse visa.

------
freshflowers
This is neither unique for tech workers nor unique for the US. It has been
happening in many professions for _decades_.

Tech is just specifically vulnerable, because despite all evidence to the
contrary (wage suppression, the huge discrepancy between reported talent
shortage and actual salaries) we drank the industry kool-aid and believe we
don't need no stinkin' unions and government regulation, and that we techies
are part of the lucky middle class that will remain. Most of this complacency
is caused by the fact that we still have pretty decent salaries compared to
most other workers, but of course that is also what makes us a nice big juicy
target for dubious practices.

------
houseofshards
The worst part here is that H1B visas allocated to these scumbag companies end
up starving genuine companies of these visas.

~~~
shams93
Worse than that, it also destroys the local talent pool. Employers use visas
as a club against local talent, so you go without equity, work 3 times as many
hours as you're paid for and when the company is sold you're out of a job. Not
to mention taking "hair cuts" so you work without pay and do without basic
necessities to make someone else rich, this shit has ruined my life being a
coder in Los Angeles, yes I survive but I can't even afford a computer for
myself, the employers game the system until you have to go without food to
make someone else rich, forget about the dream of being able to own your own
computer.

~~~
objclxt
I see no evidence that H-1Bs are destroying the local talent pool in SF. I
can't speak to LA myself, but from what I hear it's not doing that either.

H-1Bs aren't the reason you've think you've "ruined [your] life being a coder
in Los Angeles". Your profile has you down as an Android developer: I met a
co-founder based in LA last week who was bemoaning the lack of good mobile app
talent. I frequently get hit up from startups in LA, and I used to consult for
a major firm in the OC that's vacuuming up Android devs. I can't tell you why
you're having such a hard time, and I feel for you: but blaming H-1Bs isn't
productive.

~~~
massmana
It makes IT work low-class. This, I believe is the true reason women don't
work in IT.

~~~
uberwach
Do you have data for these claims?

Here in Germany most women prefer career paths that are paid worse than IT
modulo medicine. Also, IT is not considered low-class, maybe because there are
many academics in IT.

~~~
reduce
In the US it's considered low status because it's considered to have
questionable long-term value, due to potential future outsourcing.

He's absolutely right. In the US, software development has always, until
perhaps very recently, been considered a very low status career and with low
long-term potential. That is, versus one of the classic engineering or medical
jobs. By the way, in the US, IT generally means support desk job, which is
seen as the lowest of the low. Only very recently has the median software
development job approached anywhere near a medical specialist or the classic
engineering job, and it's still far below the wage of many US doctors.

I'd say that the US general public is still expecting the imminent outsourcing
of all software development, to foreigners making $2/hour somewhere far away,
to occur soon. People in the field don't expect this, but that's how outsiders
perceive it.

This low-status is a huge contributor to what keeps most US women from
pursuing software development as a career, according to women I've talked to.
It really is that simple and obvious.

This is also why there's a trend of US software developers prominently adding
"scientist" or "engineer" to their job titles. Pure software development still
has a low status stigma.

~~~
uberwach
Interesting perspective, I would have expected the image of software
professionals in the US to be way better due to companies such as Google or
Apple.

In terms of long-term potential medicine specialists are better off here, but
it is not as extreme as in NA. If you are a top-tier IT freelancer, then you
can easily compete with them.

------
manishsharan
Most people coming on H1B are no less talented /skilled or hardworking that an
average american techie. However, the H1B worker is not aware of his rights.
The average H1b worker has no one to turn to for help as the people who are
most vehemently against H1B have racist and xenophobic agendas. I speak from
experience : while on a H1B VISA (and in middle of a unpleasant work
situation), I sought help by seeking out the people behind anti-H1B VISA web
pages. Not only did those people I asked for help had no assistance for me ,
they hounded me with hateful racist mails, phone calls and death threats.

The focus of this article and sadly HNers is to punish and prosecute the
companies. Not one opinion has been offered to make the lives of H1B better.
So let me offer one.

The US consulate can brief the H1B GRANTEE on his /her rights.Maybe include an
DVD or training video on youtube along with a hotline or number of labour
lawyers. Make the company sponsoring H1B agree to abide by labour laws of
California or whichever state the the company is located in.

~~~
tristor
> Most people coming on H1B are no less talented /skilled or hardworking that
> an average american techie.

I would like to disagree on this point, however I have never conducted any
long-term research nor seen any conducted. My anecdotal experiences though
definitely seem to indicate otherwise.

I think it's first important to clarify that by me making the statement that
an H1B is less qualified than the average American tech worker, I am not
saying that due to their race. I think that the process is broken and
exploitative, and it encourages and incentivizes companies to specifically
bring in people who are under-qualified. Let's take two possible scenarios:

A: Shyam excelled at the top of his class while attending school in India and
managed to be accepted to receive a government scholarship to attend school
overseas. With much glee he heads off to the US on his student visa to get his
degree from a university there and get earlier exposure to new ideas and
techniques. While there, he does an internship during the summers his
sophomore and junior year with a local tech company. As graduation nears, he
applies for and receives a green card, choosing to permanently reside in the
US. Afterwards he begins his job search, starting with a position he is hired
at with the company he interned with his junior year.

B: Deepak did not do so well in school, but knows that he wants to work in the
technology field because it's a good way to make money and gain social status
so he can date and marry the girls he is interested in. Unfortunately, he
didn't meet the requirements for an overseas scholarship, so he attends an
Indian university instead. Afterwards, he goes to work for a large Indian
technology firm (Infosys, Wipro, et al). During his entire professional
experience to this point he and his colleagues have been slogging away doing
things mostly incorrectly, but with many hours so that their clients appear to
be getting a good deal. After doing this for a number of years, he realizes
he's got to get out of India and this situation, so he reaches out internally
and gets accepted for a staffed role through his firm. Happily heading
overseas to the US he arrives in California with his shiny new H1B working at
a big American tech company on behalf of the staffing firm, only to realize
that he's been thrust into a position intended for somebody with 5 years of
useful experience, not the 3 years of useless experience he's had. He's way
under-qualified, and struggles to keep up. He tries but is just not
experienced or educated enough to handle the situation well, so finds himself
in the exact same slog of burning more hours to do things less efficiently to
meet deadlines.

I'm kind of hamming it up here, obviously, but my point is that for the most
part there is absolutely no quality control from the perspective of the people
who busted their ass, proved themselves, and have succeeded in their careers
who are now working alongside people who are under qualified brought in under
the guise of a staffing agency hiring H1Bs.

Nobody has a problem working with Shyam from situation A, but they would have
a problem working with Deepak from situation B. It's not an issue of
xenophobia or race as you seem to make it out to be, and it's not that we
don't care or empathize. But we're at work to get our jobs done and we all
have goals. If you're an engineer at the top of your game working on some
exciting new technology, the last thing you need is to have your project
derailed by inefficiencies, bugs, or outright bad actions from someone who is
not experienced or qualified enough to be involved, but through the foibles of
management found themselves there anyway.

~~~
manishsharan
I like your scenarios and I will add to it.

If you are off-shoring or out-sourcing work, you will always get Deepak. But
if you are hiring an H1B , you will most likely get Shyam and here is why:

The hiring manager, the one whose project funded the salaries , can easily
fire the H1B even more easily. If Deepak shows up when the hiring manager was
expecting Shyam, Deepak would get canned in a less than a week.

>If you're an engineer at the top of your game working on some exciting new
technology, the last thing you need is to have your project derailed by
inefficiencies, bugs, or outright bad actions from someone who is not
experienced or qualified enough to be involved, ...then why are you not hiring
a local engineer or throwing a hissy fit when Shyam shows up and mucks up your
code ? Even the worst mangers I have worked with realize that their own job is
at risk when they hire a Deepak.

------
danmaz74
> Contracting with labor brokers also benefits US employers. They can staff up
> swiftly for temporary jobs and slim down just as fast, with workers paid
> below-market rates.

I really don't understand why H1B visas aren't tied to the worker's pay.
Considering that they're intended for difficult to find specialists, it should
be easy enough to weed out fake applications by tying the visa to an at least
average salary for the sector.

~~~
deskamess
That is one approach... but I would really like the H1 to not to be tied to an
employer. Let it be open with instant portability. The only obligation is the
current employer (even the original sponsor) has to report the employee
assignment on the first date to the DHS. And if a company tries to put
bond/restrictions on that movement (either in the US or back in the home
country) penalize and remove their ability to get H1's for 5 years.

------
plicense
I noted two things:

1\. "Shackling workers to their jobs is such an entrenched business practice
that it has even spread to US nationals" \- such US arrogance.

2\. Almost all names of people affected seem to be from the state of Tamil
Nadu in India.

------
starving_coder
The Center for Investigative Reporting did approach me since i am victim of
this scam too. I chose to settle out of court sheer out of fear and lack of
ideas. As per settlement terms, i am not supposed to talk about this entire
episode to anyone ever. But i am still talking here on HN. Back in 2008 I paid
$330/hour (10 hours in advance as a retainer) to an attorney to file a
response to the legal notice i received. I also paid other damages to my
employer totaling $7500. I was literally forced to sign the "binding
agreement" which was part of my joining formality after i landed in SF. Had i
seen this doc earlier while still in India, chances are i wouldn't have taken
that flight. I spent almost a month without pay, medical insurance (in spite
of working for the client) but ultimately blinked and signed that document.
Its evil. And this ritual is here to stay until the feds really are interested
in solving this problem.

------
gleenn
I think it is terrible that companies are taking advantage of foreigners, but
I also keep seeing this $20,000 number thrown around a lot. That's how much it
costs for a company to apply for an H1B. The companies should not be using
that to prevent people from quitting, but it is a very real, large expense to
getting workers from out of the US.

The flip side of the argument isn't great either. If Softcorp or whatever pays
a small fortune to get someone an H1B, that person shouldn't turn around and
leave immediately either. It's just really sad that this means Softcorp, etc
know they can use that as a leash and treat the worker like crap.

Someone tell me a solution to this problem given the H1B's cost so much. How
do you prevent abuse? It seems like making the worker pay for the visa would
fix it, but I have a feeling that is quite difficult as well. Also, it would
be kind of crazy to have to pay a huge sum to take a job.

~~~
enraged_camel
>>but I also keep seeing this $20,000 number thrown around a lot. That's how
much it costs for a company to apply for an H1B.

To clarify, the actual application cost varies between $2500 and $5000[1]. The
problem is that on most years, the visas are given only to a percentage of the
applicants. For example, if someone is switching from OPT to H1B and they
don't win the RNG game, the cost to the company can be enormous.

[1][http://redbus2us.com/h1b-visa-2014-filing-fees-uscis-fee-
att...](http://redbus2us.com/h1b-visa-2014-filing-fees-uscis-fee-attorney-fee-
premium-processing-any-changes/)

~~~
klipt
> For example, if someone is switching from OPT to H1B and they don't win the
> RNG game, the cost to the company can be enormous.

No, the fees are returned if the petition isn't selected.

~~~
pbiggar
Only the petition fees, which are a small portion ($1500?). The lawyers fees
aren't refundable.

Some lawyers do charge up to $15,000 for H1Bs, and I've heard of people
reasonably paying $8000. (Good lawyers are definitely in the $4000 range,
though you can bring thing down considerably by using inhouse lawyers, which
is probably what big companies do).

So if we assume that lawyers cost $2000 per petition for large companies, and
that there's a 33% success rate in the lottery (it was 50% last year), we're
still talking only a cost of $6000 per hire.

------
saurabhnanda
Is penalising early exit through contractual terms illegal? If not, then isn't
this just a case of who has more leverage when negotiating the employment
contract? That, and the fact that Indians are so desperate to go to the US
that they're willing to sign any contract.

PS: I'm an Indian working in India.

~~~
induscreep
Penalizing early exit with loss of immigration status could be
illegal...penalizing with money is probably not.

~~~
klipt
Having an employee pay visa fees for an H1-B is illegal:
[http://www.hackinglawpractice.com/video/h1b-employees-
cannot...](http://www.hackinglawpractice.com/video/h1b-employees-cannot-pay-
the-fees-associated-with-their-applications.cfm)

Therefore if the penalty for "early exit" is there to cover the visa and legal
fees, that penalty is illegal.

[http://blog.laborlawcenter.com/news/virginia-company-
pays-17...](http://blog.laborlawcenter.com/news/virginia-company-
pays-17-million/)

> A firm specializing in information technology has been ordered to pay nearly
> $1.7 million in back wages to H-1B non-immigrant workers following an
> investigation by the U.S. Department of Labor in a case that should sound a
> warning for every employer.

> Investigators also found that the Virginia company charged new H-1 B workers
> fees for training ranging from $1.000 to $2,500. Such fees are in violation
> of the law.

------
HaseebR7
WOW, this is scary. I'm from India and thinking of getting my MS in CS next
year. I hope i don't end up like this.

~~~
abat
The companies taking advantage rely on their marks/employees being naive, so
you'll be fine once you know to be careful:

1) Get direct employment with a reputable US company instead of via a
contracting company.

2) Don't sign any contracts that have any penalty for quitting. You may want
to hire a lawyer to review any contracts.

3) If you are in a bad contract and your employer sues you, make sure you hire
a decent lawyer. The biggest victims were those that ignored the suits or
tried to represent themselves and lost their cases by default.

~~~
umbs
I have been passively following this subject for past 10 years (since I
graduated college). Your suggestions are all valid and with good intent.
However, 'one' group of workers these labor shops exploit are in a vicious
cycle and are looking for ways to escape.

The following is typical scenario for this group: A student is enrolled in a
university with average or poor CS program. There is no funding/scholarship or
good on-campsu jobs. So, student works, often bending the laws, off-campus for
more than 60 hours to pay for college. Obviously, education takes a backseat
and somehow student graduates with huge debt. They struggle to find job and
due to time restrictions on F1 visa, they are forced to find an employment and
hence sign for these labor shops who give them employment letter (and apply
for H1B visa) and securing students stay in US. So, initially, its a mutually
beneficial arrangement.

Once workers realize they are being exploited, the struggle to get out starts.

I signed up for one of these contracting companies and they were paying me
$48K when most of my fellow new graduates were making over $72K. I got out
after 2.5 years, but fortunately, it was hassle free.

This is a very complex web of fraud, exploitation, bending the rules, and what
not. IMO, it starts with mutual agreement/need on both sides, but descends in
to the scenarios the post has brought to light.

------
bbarn
I think this is going to continue in some shape, even if it doesn't
necessarily look like this, because these companies are going to India to pay
less money, bottom line. Add in a large pool of people wanting to make the
move, and someone will always be willing to do it for the types of contracts
we're talking about here.

As has been pointed out many times here on HN, there is no shortage of
qualified dev/it talent in the US. There is a surplus of companies with bad
jobs that don't want to pay market rate, and look at these brokers as risk
mitigation strategies to fill the head count someone said they needed.

When cutting costs is your motivation, people have a strong tendency to get
hurt.

------
known
More at [http://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/10/29/1244255/skilled-
fore...](http://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/10/29/1244255/skilled-foreign-
workers-treated-as-indentured-servants)

------
designml
This actually happened to one of the people I know. That person had to go
through a lot just to get out of the stranglehold of those people. Literally
screwed. They were paying half of market and also not even paying it on time.
Unfortunately its difficult to pursue a legal route against these people
because of the cost to pay lawyers and also the fact that they do it in such a
way that its borderline legal/illegal. The only thing you can do is to save
other people who may fall into the same trap.

------
ssiddharth
This is disgusting on so many levels. Hopefully us Indians can now stop being
so starry eyed over working abroad and see it for what it is.

~~~
lotsofmangos
If someone is paying you an airfare you cannot currently afford, rather than
already paying you enough before you leave a country that any paid flights are
merely a courtesy, then be very suspicious.

------
coldcode
If we have to have these visa programs, the law should be changed to only
allow the actual hiring company to contract with the worker, and under no
circumstances allow any intermediary to be a go-between. Then at least there
can be some kind of tracking instead of everything being hidden behind closed
doors.

Of course with our stupid politicians nothing will change except for the
worse.

------
thewarrior
I'm working at a company in India and our bond period is upto 3 years long.
Imagine that.

~~~
Sven7
What happens if you break it?

~~~
denzil_correa
The company asks you to pay which you should NOT because it is illegal. The
company however can hold you ransom to exit letter etc. which proves that you
worked for the company. However, most people do not take that route. There are
smart ways to avoid that coercion.

~~~
thewarrior
The agreement never uses the word bond. They like to claim that it's just
compensation for training expenses.

~~~
denzil_correa
It is a one-sided contract which is commonly referred to as "bond" amongst the
Indian IT workforce.

The law clearly states that a one-sided contract (even if written as a
compensation for training expenses) is illegal in India.

------
ugh123
Just an extension of the scummy tech recruiter industry we have currently.

------
tomohawk
I have no problem encouraging people who want to be part of our country to
immigrate, particularly if they have good skills. This H1B program, though -
it's just got to go.

------
known
H1B should be included in
[http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_collar_crimes](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_collar_crimes)

------
induscreep
Does anyone know if this situation is specific to IT/tech/computer science
related companies? Does it happen to, say, petroleum engineers?

------
torpmode
"... spending his days at a company apartment in Norcross, Georgia. His first
assignment:Wait for Softech to find him a job. After languishing for 10 weeks
without work or full-time pay ..."

This means free housing and paid unemployment benefit, plus the people paying
you are finding you a job themselves. I'm sure there are some Americans who
wouldn't mind subscribing to that service. Yes, there's a cost of not quitting
before you contract's up, but for some it may be worth it, as long as they're
sufficiently well informed.

~~~
selimthegrim
How about, uh, 10 weeks of lost wages at market value because he could have
found another job quicker?

------
yegor256a
Do we really need to use so many words to describe so obvious situation?..

------
danielweber
The link has audio automatically playig.

------
waps
Weird is how many of the bad employers are Indians themselves (or I think so,
given they're names):

Krishnan Kumar, from Softech

Malini Sridhar, from Compsys Technologies (found through
[http://appext20.dos.ny.gov/](http://appext20.dos.ny.gov/) )

Tata Consultancy Services Ltd, part of India’s Tata group

Even the lawyers suing these employees :

> Past president of the South Asian Bar Association of Georgia, attorney Roy
> Banerjee has a penchant for wearing bow ties and representing body shops. He
> has prevailed in many cases against Indian immigrant programmers, winning
> judgments or settlements from some, while others fled back to India.

~~~
lmz
Why would it surprise you, given that they are the ones having local knowledge
on both sides of the trade?

~~~
hemantv
These are people whose main aim is to exploit the system, and they are doing
there best to game the system the best know.

------
hemantv
This doesn't happen very frequently in California. Its much more prevalent in
other states.

