
Testimony of Ms. Soon Ok Lee (2002) - mckee1
http://www.judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?id=4f1e0899533f7680e78d03281fe18baf&wit_id=4f1e0899533f7680e78d03281fe18baf-2-1
======
guyht
For anyone who is interested on reading more about North Korean prison camps,
Blaine Harden's 'Escape from camp 14' is an incredible read.

[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11797365-escape-from-
cam...](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11797365-escape-from-
camp-14?from_search=true)

~~~
hdevalence
Indeed, although it's not an easy read, and it takes time for the horror of
spending one's entire life, birth to death, in a concentration camp, starving
and being tortured to really sink in.

------
greenburger
For a detailed analysis of where North Korean prison camps are thought to be
located see [http://freekorea.us/camps/](http://freekorea.us/camps/)

Some of the camps are massive, for example Camp 22 is estimated to be 225 sq.
km and holding 50,000 people [1].

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_North_Korea#Int...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_North_Korea#Internment_camps_for_political_prisoners)

------
zoba
George Clooney has a satellite he uses to keep track of a warlord. Individuals
have capabilities which were previously accessible only to nations. I wonder
if it is possible that an individual might intervene in North Korea, instead
of a nation... but the parallels of a individual intervening in another
nation's affairs sound a lot like terrorism. Some more thinking to do here...

~~~
astrodust
That's actually an interesting project. Here's a link for the lazy:
[http://www.satsentinel.org/our-story/george-
clooney](http://www.satsentinel.org/our-story/george-clooney)

He doesn't have his own satellite, obviously, but buys satellite imagery to
document war crimes and to warn against incursions.

------
DanBC
That's from 2002. See also
[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/10...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/10413950/UN-
inquiry-chief-reduced-to-tears-by-North-Korea-brutality.html)

from 2013.

EDIT: Corrected year typo, thank you kohanz!

~~~
kohanz
_June 21, 2002_

I'm guessing "2012" was a typo for "2002".

------
dba7dba
To those trying to somehow link Guantanamo to labor camps in NK, please, stop.
You are only making yourself look foolish. Such comparisons don't help your
cause at all.

500 or so prisoners in Guantanamo versus 200,000+ in NKorean camps. The
NKorean prisoners don't get medical help, freedom to worship religion of
choice.

The 500 are NOT there along with their wife, kids, grandkids, on both sides of
the family. In NK, once a person is taken to one of the camps, it usually
means 3 generations of his family is taken there. Think about it, 10+ or more
people (including little kids) are dragged away to labor camps because of
actions (or perceived actions) of 1 person in the family.

Please, stop comparing Guantanamo with NKorean labor camps.

~~~
olefoo
What about comparing Corrections Corporation of America and it's privatized
prisons to DPRK labor camps?

Perhaps a bit of a stretch given how clean and sanitary private prisons are
known to be. But since American prisoners are forced to labor at wages that
are a fraction of the market rate for the same work and are charged for their
incarceration at a rate higher than it is possible for them to earn in
prison... perhaps it is not so different.

------
adamio
What about never again? Are Jewish orgs doing anything to help this situation,
given the human rights violations similar to the Holocaust?

edit: Note, I'm genuinely asking here, not implying anything should/isnot
being done

~~~
w1ntermute
> Are Jewish orgs doing anything to help this situation

They're too busy recreating the Holocaust with the Palestinians as the victim.
Every couple of months we hear about the Israelis expanding their lebensraum
by building some new settlements on Palestinian land.

~~~
swordswinger12
Israel != the international Jewry. Assuming as such is thinly-veiled anti-
Semitism.

~~~
w1ntermute
> thinly-veiled anti-Semitism

Oh please. Make one negative comment about Jews and you get called an anti-
Semite. It's even worse than with blacks.

~~~
tptacek
What an embarrassment that this comment got voted up.

~~~
w1ntermute
Oh please. All I did was say something that is true, but politically
incorrect. Just because it offended your sensibilities doesn't mean it's
false.

~~~
moocowduckquack
Congratulations, you just won the moocowduckquack memorial sickbag for Bigot
of the Week.

------
middleclick
Does North Korea have a future? Is it possible that someday that the current
rule is overthrown and the rights and lives of people are restored? Can anyone
with knowledge about this comment?

~~~
woodchuck64
Would it be a bad thing for China to covertly take over North Korea? One less
headache for them, one less for us. I say we look the other way.

~~~
bcoates
China doesn't exactly have a successful track record of bringing neighboring
Communist states under control.

------
firstOrder
Hopefully someday we'll see hearings on Americans massacring South Korean
civilians some day (
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Gun_Ri_Massacre](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Gun_Ri_Massacre)
). We even have written orders and memoes showing it was U.S. policy to fire
upon civilians.

Or maybe supporting the dictatorship in South Korea, and it's massacre against
members of the democratization movement in 1980 (
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwangju_Democratization_Movemen...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwangju_Democratization_Movement)
). General Wickham sent troops from the DMZ so that the South Korean army
could commit the massacre actually.

We could go on about Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib torture, the NSA spying on all
e-mails, phone calls and web site browsing and saving it forever etc.

But no, let's hear more about a US Senate hearing on human rights in North
Korea - from 11 years ago...what a farce.

~~~
roel_v
It's quite offensive by itself that you're even suggesting the things you are
listing are within 2 or 3 orders of magnitude within what is happening in
North Korea.

~~~
DominikR
What exactly makes you believe that this testimony is accurate, and not just
manufactured by the US government.

It wouldn't be the first time they did that.

~~~
dba7dba
You think the Senate testimony is fabricated?

How about this story? [http://www.npr.org/2012/03/29/149061951/escape-from-
camp-14-...](http://www.npr.org/2012/03/29/149061951/escape-from-
camp-14-inside-north-koreas-gulag)

If you think camp 14 is fabricated, how about detaining 85 year old American
veteran with no due process?

But i know, you will keep saying it's all fabricated...

~~~
DominikR
I am not defending the north korean regime, since there is enough data that
proves that it is oppressive and violates human rights on a large scale. (just
like the US government did with all their wars since 1950 that killed
millions, or extrajudical executions of US citizens in the war on terror, or
torture and indefinite detention without trial)

And no, I am not strictly believing that the Senate testimony is fabricated,
it's just a possibility for me, since there are documented cases where
testimony was fabricated in front of the Senate to legitimate a war.

------
huhtenberg
Recommended follow-up reading -

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp)

I know most of you _heard_ of it, but, seriously, take a moment and look a bit
closer.

~~~
Finster
Really. You're trying to compare Gitmo to North Korean prison camps?

Certainly, Gitmo is no picnic, but I have to question if you actually RTFA.

~~~
27182818284
The trend is what is disturbing. As time moved over the last 10 years they got
closer rather than farther apart.

~~~
NoPiece
How so? All but 164 detainees have been released from Guantanamo. They were
never close, and Guanatanamo is slowly being shut down.

~~~
BrandonMarc
While true, one reason the U.S. doesn't _need_ Gitmo so much anymore is we're
still going after and finding the same people, but now they are executed with
drones, rather than captured.

~~~
pekk
If one of the parties had allowed it, we could have dissolved Gitmo years ago

------
deliminator
Also interesting is this interview with prison guards who have defected. Camp
14 - Total Control Zone [Abridged]:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb1iwo4txE4](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb1iwo4txE4)

------
BorisMelnik
heartbroken, I wish we could do something over there.

~~~
leokun
Seoul is within artillery range of North Korea. It would destroy that city and
the global economy to "do something over there".

~~~
downer91
I am uncertain that it would "destroy the global economy." That sounds like
hyperbole. Convince me.

It would be any unhappy event, assuredly, but if "the global economy" wasn't
destroyed by the Iraq debacle, I'm pretty sure that a similar conflict in
Korea would carry comparable consequences.

All the same, I do not advocate any sort of war. Not out of squeamishness, but
mostly because even the victors are handed empty promises by war. War isn't as
productive as people would like to romanticize.

~~~
leokun
[https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&...](https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:KOR:IRQ&ifdim=region&hl=en&dl=en&ind=false)

------
richardlblair
The lack of formatting on that page is driving me insane. It's so hard to
visually parse.

~~~
richardlblair
God damn, this is so hard to read. Not because of the formatting, but because
the stories told are so terrible.

