
Wireless HDMI for Everyone - neilpeel
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/airtame-wireless-hdmi-for-everyone--2
======
mootothemax
Sadly a better solution already exists: my 2012 Panasonic TV connects
wirelessly to my network, and my laptop can stream videos to it without having
to install _anything_ , all via DLNA:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Living_Network_Alliance](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Living_Network_Alliance)

Here's Panasonic's page outlining such features in their TVs:

[http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/Products/VIERA+TV/VIER...](http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/Products/VIERA+TV/VIERA+Overview/Smart+Internet+TV/8935620/index.html)

It's a lovely idea for retrofitting to older TVs, and sharing between laptops
is really neat. For anyone who's bought a TV in the last couple of years,
though, the device is redundant.

(it's also apparently very easy to share content from smartphones, tablets and
so on, but I haven't had the need (or a chance) to independently play with
this)

~~~
Bud
DLNA is emphatically not a better solution, or even equivalent. The spec
defines only a limited number of file types that are allowed to function. Why
on earth would I want to let multinational corporations decide which file
types I want to use? For instance, MKV files, which would be in the top 2-3
file formats that most of us would want to use wireless streaming for in the
first place, are not supported. All Apple products are, similarly, not
supported. Noncompliant file types must be transcoded.

DLNA will die an instant and painful death the moment a truly open solution is
adopted.

DLNA is the solution that TV companies and PC makers came up with to keep the
lid on streaming and make the viewing of pirated content more difficult.

DLNA is widely despised for the same reasons that all DRM-crippled products
are always despised.

~~~
mootothemax
_DLNA is widely despised for the same reasons that all DRM-crippled products
are always despised._

I question how despised DLNA _really_ is, as I believe you might be letting
your personal prejudices get in the way.

Non-techies (and plenty of techies, including myself) _just don 't care_ as
long as a given solution works, and the DLNA solution is pretty hard to beat:

Plug in your TV, connect it to the network, and click on a video on your
laptop to watch.

Out of interest, what kind of open source solution do you envisage when you
say that "DLNA will die an instant and painful death the moment a truly open
solution is adopted"?

Would it involve hardware, or something installed on the TV, or something else
entirely?

 _All Apple products are, similarly, not supported._

FYI, my iPhone and iPad work just fine with it.

~~~
highphive
"Out of interest, what kind of open source solution do you envisage when you
say that "DLNA will die an instant and painful death the moment a truly open
solution is adopted"? Would it involve hardware, or something installed on the
TV, or something else entirely?"

Did you click the link? This is an example of a truly open solution, and it
involves hardware.

~~~
mootothemax
_Did you click the link? This is an example of a truly open solution, and it
involves hardware._

And it wouldn't lead to me replacing my DLNA-based setup, hence my question.

I also question your description of "truly open," although that's me being a
bit Stallman, granted.

~~~
barista
Isn't Miracast the open solution that is open and supported by many?

~~~
0xndc
Miracast isn't "open" \- devices require certification, and the Miracast and
Wi-Fi Direct specifications cost $200 each. It's also supported by relatively
few devices right now (since, you know, certification), and I seem to recall
there are some compatibility issues between manufacturer implementations.

------
periferral
Wow. lot of negativity here. I think this is a great product and I would
gladly pick it up when it becomes available. Indiegogo is a no go for me.

Here are my thoughts 1\. DLNA != this and many have already outlined why so no
point repeating.

2\. Great features and the need for software is a minor hiccup considering how
feature rich the s/w makes the solution. I would consider making the software
portable for windows.

3\. Not all platforms have hdmi. What about display-port compatibility
(adaptor?)

4\. I'm less concerned about b/w like some have pointed out here. The use case
is not always high quality video as long as the quality is above SD and wifi
doesn't cut out.

5\. I'm guessing that with a s/w option, it should be possible to do this
wired on the laptop end. But, the TV end is always wireless. I would love to
see a wired option to eliminate wireless as an option. Not sure if there is a
wired solution that exists today to do this.

Anyway, congrats to the team. Seems like a great product.

~~~
MiguelHudnandez
> 3\. Not all platforms have hdmi. What about display-port compatibility
> (adaptor?)

I don't think there is any physical component for the computer, so the lack of
HDMI ports on laptops is not a limiting factor. Almost every TV has HDMI
inputs today. An HDMI -> DisplayPort dongle should work if you wanted to turn
your monitor into a head for this, but you might lose the audio channel.

I might be misunderstanding the product, but to me it seems like Chromecast
[1] without any DRM bullshit.

1:
[http://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/devices/chromecast/](http://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/devices/chromecast/)

------
bloopletech
Back of the envelope calculation:

(1920 * 1080 * 3 * 60) / 1024.0 / 1024.0 => 355.96 MB/s

300mbps wireless n:

300 / 8.0 => 37.5 MB/s

Given that the whole point of HDMI is image quality, how are they going to
shove 355MB/s through a 37.5MB/s link without lowering the quality hugely?

It all seems rather pointless to have a large, high quality display and
content, and force it through a small link.

~~~
Renaud
BlueRay in 1080p is encoded at most at 35Mbits/s. You only need a decoder on
the other side and stream the video data to be decoded by the remote device.

There are a few protocols out there that manage to send high-performance video
across remote devices without requiring lots of bandwith: RemoteFx is an
extension of Window's RDP for instance; Citrix has stuff like HDX-3D Pro, etc.

You certainly do not need to send every pixel through.

------
warcode
It is not "Wireless HDMI" until I plug something in the HDMI port of my PC and
the HDMI port of my TV and it "just works".

Playing games on the output of a 1080p @ 60fps with 3-5k bitrate encoder
causes massive delay.

~~~
dublinben
Here you go. This is a real 'wireless HDMI' solution from an established AV
company.

[http://www.dvdo.com/air3/index.aspx](http://www.dvdo.com/air3/index.aspx)

~~~
thenomad
So does this actually work without significant lag? Would be very good to know
in light of the Kickstarter here!

------
neya
I'm somewhat curious to know if this could possibly be a Raspberry Pi-ish
solution?

Because that hardware uses an ARM processor and has 512 MB RAM just like the
Raspberry Pi model B. Also, I think the Pi is able to achieve the same thing
already - Just connect your Pi to the TV (which can have a HDMI/Video In/DVI)
and stream what you want from your PC. It would be interesting to see if the
software they provide would run on my Pi out of the box. If it does, then I
think I can somehow integrate the Pi into my 3 year old Bravio without any
fuss and enjoy wireless streaming with the software these guys provide. All in
all, a very good effort guys :)

~~~
atiti
We have been testing with the Pis so it's definitely working!

In fact, we will be providing images for raspberrys (based on the raspbian
distro)

~~~
neya
Thank's for the clarification! :)

------
Tehnix
For all the "use chromecast/Apple TV/Miracast", this might be helpfull as to
why it isn't the same
[http://images.indiegogo.com/file_attachments/213408/files/20...](http://images.indiegogo.com/file_attachments/213408/files/20131121000131-Competitors_overview__1_.png?1385020891)

Also, the guys chanting DLNA, does that work on other things than windows?
I've never heard of it, so, have little knowledge of it. Also, I will take a
stab in the dark and guess the muliple monitors part and sharing your screen
on others computers isn't quite a thing of DLNA...

~~~
isaacwaller
That chart has a small error, Miracast certainly does support extended desktop
- I use it frequently on Windows 8.1.

~~~
barista
and isn't it open so that anybody can implement it for Linux and other
platforms as well?

------
wil421
I could buy a Chromecast for half the price and use a free service to mirror
my desktop for meetings.

Or I could buy another Apple TV for a little more and have a lot more
functionality and video outlets (HBO GO, Netflix etc.). Although this option
only works if you use Macs.

Or as another poster said just use the built in wifi on my TVs in my house.

~~~
smrtinsert
I'll take dlna over a single corp solution like appletv any day of the week.

~~~
wil421
True but in my house I have had better luck with my apple tv than I have had
streaming DLNA. Way too choppy.

------
rohu1990
Their software is open source, that means if funding goes success and they
release their software we could use any mini pc running ubuntu (or raspberry
pi) as the dongle for tv.

~~~
yosoyzenitram
Actually, the dongle (according to the pic) has an Allwinner A10 processor,
which is the one that came on the first Android TV dongles that popped up more
than a year ago.

Even though a bit old and single-core, it's more than enough to stream some
H.264, and back then it was a quite awesome processor for 7$/ea approx. Now
they will be even cheaper.

------
transfire
What baffles me is that every TV sold today already has a wireless DTV
receiver built into it! You know, that one that you can hook rabbit ears to,
and the one so few people actually use.

Can someone please explain to me why no one builds transmitters for these?

~~~
amalag
I don't think it is legal to transmit on those frequencies, thats what the
stations pay big bucks for.

~~~
hnal943
Radio stations pay big bucks to broadcast on the FM frequencies, and yet they
make FM Transmitters for your car. Why wouldn't DTV be the same?

~~~
amalag
Thats a good point, I didn't think of that. The FCC did make some allowance
for low power FM transmitters, probably because they couldn't control it
anyway. I see some people selling similar low power TV transmitters, but I
don't know why it isn't more common. Since it is more complex than the FM
transmitters and more of a risk, I wonder if the lack of FCC regs has stopped
it in the US.

~~~
adestefan
Low power FM refers to a specific class of licenses[1] and not the little
radio dongles.

[1] [http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/low-power-fm-broadcast-
radio...](http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/low-power-fm-broadcast-radio-
stations-lpfm)

------
tzury
To the inventors:

I made this "Works with" (instead of "with both") and it is available at
[http://i.imgur.com/8VDAlrK.png](http://i.imgur.com/8VDAlrK.png)

Great idea, and good luck.

~~~
atiti
Thank you!! Will be updated shortly :-)

------
jebus989
Firstly the public use cases are cool and could be really useful; my
criticisms are with home use. My TV doesn't have USB ports for a start and the
current setup I have is a 10m HDMI cable that is long enough to connect to my
laptop on the sofa, it cost about $15 and is hassle-free.

~~~
santiagoIT
You don't need a USB port. It plugs into the HDMI port.

~~~
jebus989
The wireless receiver is powered by USB though right?

~~~
kayoone
i dont see why you cant use any standard USB charger instead.

------
hrktb
What strikes me is how the Apple TV is really in the "good enough" zone for
iOS and recent Macbook users. After so many years there's no clearly better
solutions to show some random content on the TV.

~~~
josefresco
Chromecast, cheaper, and no Apple universe buy-in.

~~~
girvo
I have both, and AirPlay is much better for my use cases personally. But I've
already "bought in" to Apple's ecosystem, so it's a bit of a no-brainer there!

------
FrejNorling
This is awesome! I really like it alot!

A couple of weeks ago I was thinking up this exact idea. I'm glad someone is
doing it!

A greate usecase for use would be in our office conference room. Plug it in
the projector in the ceilingand all employees can just stream the screen.

Installing custom software might be a barrier for some users.

Congratulations to the team!

Good luck!

------
AbraKdabra
First, I know nothing about electronics or how this device it's made or why
they did it like that, this is just a humble opinion.

Please, please stop making USB dongles which are big and occupy more than one
port, if I put that device in my smartTV it will block the other one.

~~~
rsanders
Chromecast comes with a short HDMI extender cable. Enjoy the dangly future.

I suspect TV makers will adapt before long and sprinkle HDMI connectors a bit
farther apart.

------
The_Double
Why not use miracast/WiDi? We really don't need another solution, we need
devices that work with the existing standard. All new intel laptops and
android phones can transmit, but there are hardly any affordable receivers.

~~~
atiti
We strive for the "clouds", and Miracast/WiDi with it's WiFi-Direct dependence
isn't really future proof...

------
lkurts
I've been using this: [http://www.laptopmag.com/review/wifi/hp-wireless-tv-
connect....](http://www.laptopmag.com/review/wifi/hp-wireless-tv-connect.aspx)
for more then a year now, works like a charm. It's not small and slick but
get's the job done. I am using with with a stationary desktop machine though,
not a laptop - this might be too much for a laptop.

------
t0mbstone
I don't want a software based solution that compresses my current display and
streams it to a device on the local network.

What I want is _two_ HDMI dongles that literally function like wireless
cables. Plug one dongle into one device. Plug the other dongle into the other
device. The result should be exactly the same as if I had an actual HDMI
cable. No software configuration. No wifi setup. Maybe a light on each device
to indicate if the signal is strong enough and if they are connected to each
other or not.

It's not complicated. That's all I want. Someone, please make this!

For that matter, there's a huge market for all sorts of dongles of this
nature. Wireless audio cables that transmit digitally, for example. Basically,
I want to just do away with wires and replace them with bi-directional dongles
of some sort on each end.

------
benjamincburns
I'm really sad I don't have the funds to commit right now for the hacker
version, however I'll definitely buy one when it comes out. I was really
hoping that ChromeCast would've been what this is claiming to be. Please do
show up Google on this front.

In the mean time if the people behind the AIRTAME are reading this, I'd love
to see something like this with support for HDMI Ethernet Channel, since this
will half the amount of wireless congestion AIRTAME would cause. I'm under no
illusion that this will be added to the first version (I know what hardware
dev is like), but it's something to consider for the future.

------
chunkiestbacon
This is great if they manage to pull it off. Solutions like DLNA are sometimes
slow and are buffered. DLNA cannot be used to duplicate or extend your
monitor. I would buy it instantly. I wasted so much time this year getting
alternative solutions to work, like XBMC on a raspberry pi. There is no need
for a media pc, if you can just use your laptop to quickly watch videos on
your TV. Always plugging in a laptop is a big hassle.

EDIT: Using DLNA gets annoying. I need to start a software on my laptop and
then I have to use my TV remote to select the file I want to watch in the TV
menu. A solution like this is so much more quicker.

------
tbob22
Interesting, but it seems like it is dropping frames all over the place. I
suppose it would be good enough for presentations but not for movie or game
use.

I suppose with later iterations it could improve, but I would rather just plug
the HDMI directly into the laptop and use a wireless keyboard/mouse if needed.

On another note, I find it hard to believe that Apple still hasn't fixed the
color space issues on OS X (it only occurs if you use a different profile
other than SRGB). It is clearly visible throughout the video showing the
purple menu bar highlight when it should be blue.

------
fatbat
So I have been wanting a HDMI dongle or similar solution and this sounds
promising. I was hoping Chromecast would have delivered something closer to
this but alas it focused too much on entertainment content (and tab casting
barely works for me).

I know it is a WIP, but this would have been much more attractive/awesome if
they managed to power without separate USB and add wifi AC support. That would
have made it a serious competitor even if at a higher price point.

~~~
atiti
Hi fatbat,

Infact you can power it from an HDMI 1.4 + MHL port if your tv supports it!

It also comes with dual wifi cards.

~~~
fatbat
Awesome! Did not know about MHL. Looks like that is used by the Roku Streaming
Stick too. I think you should definitely mention that in the campaign as well.
Going to keep an eye on this and the stretch goals. Thank you!

------
bambax
Great idea! Sadly, Indiegogo doesn't work for me:

An error occurred while processing your request. Reference
#97.c756434d.1385043215.25b8f14

after POSTing my info on

[https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/airtame-wireless-hdmi-
for...](https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/airtame-wireless-hdmi-for-everyone
--2/contributions)

Kickstarter is the way to gogo!

------
Xylakant
Does it support HDCP? I don't see any mention of it, but not supporting it
would imply that you can't play your DRM-protected iTunes streams via an
Airtame adapter. (I totally agree that DRM is fundamentally a broken idea, but
alas, that's the current state of affairs).

~~~
zanny
State of affairs on itunes. How about _not_ using iTunes for video?

~~~
Xylakant
Sadly, any compliant player for HD-Content will do the same. I'd be surprised
if you're more successful with netflix, but I can't test since I'm not a
netflix customer. There's enough people reporting problems with netflix and
not HDCP compliant setups though.

Open source players are fine, but there's still the problem of finding a
streaming service that supports open-source players or even just HD content
without DRM. Now, you can go and torrent all your videos you'd like to watch
but some of use prefer the ease of use and the legality of using an existing
streaming service.

~~~
bloopletech
I sympathise, but isn't that really the point: if you can't re-stream it how
you want, is the existing streaming service really easy to use?

~~~
Xylakant
As I said in my previous post: I think DRM is crappy and stupid, but that's
how things currently are. And since there are devices that support HDCP over
the air (apple tv, HP Wireless Connect, DLNA) the "ease of use" factor is
given. I doubt consumers will be all-pleased if they buy an Airtame and
netflix doesn't work.

(BTW: I don't think that Streaming Services just implement DRM because they
think it's fun and I don't expect right holders will be enlightened any time
soon)

------
mentos
Doesn't this already exist?

[http://www.amazon.com/Nyrius-Transmitter-Streaming-
Satellite...](http://www.amazon.com/Nyrius-Transmitter-Streaming-Satellite-
NPCS549/dp/B009E6R89C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1385046599&sr=8-1&keywords=wireless+hdmi)

~~~
wubbfindel
Personally I prefer the idea of only requiring software on my computer, and no
need for a dongle sticking out the side.

------
Navarr
Neat, but not what I was expecting.

I was _hoping_ it'd be the type of dongle that I could plug one end into an
HDMI out and one end into an HDMI in and have "wireless HDMI."

This is not that.

------
oesmith
FYI, there's a typo in the code screenshot.

s/versoin/version

~~~
atiti
Nice, thanks! Corrected (in the code of course) ;)

------
mnw21cam
Why are there so many reinventions of VNC?

~~~
tbe
This. Shouldn't there be an app for my SmartTV to let it connect to a
VNC/X11/RDP server?

~~~
mnw21cam
You mean connect to a VNC/RDP server, and _be_ an X11 server? (Although where
you'd get the mouse and keyboard input from, I'm not sure.)

~~~
tbe
Yes, for X11 the client/server roles are backwards so I shouldn't have
included it in the list.

I want to use my TV as a VNC/RDP client, and either buy a wireless keyboard
for it, or just let it act as a passive display.

------
slowmover
I would buy this in an instant if it had Android support. Are mobile devices
on the roadmap?

~~~
fatbat
Take from the campaign page comments,

    
    
       1.) Android / iOS “receiver” and “controller” is on the ROADMAP, having them as a “streamer” would also be awesome, but requires that people root/jailbreak their devices, which we can not officially support. (Restrictions on hardware access by vendors unfortunately)

------
davidbanham
It's only marginally cheaper than an Apple TV.

~~~
tty
Can I play content from a Linux machine on the Apple TV?

~~~
wil421
No but for us in the apple ecosystem it is a much better alternative.

------
free652
What's the difference from Chromecast?

~~~
rvlt
Chromecast works with youtube videos and google chrome tabs only (and it lags
using tab casting)

~~~
rjv
Google Music, Hulu Plus, Netflix, and Pandora as well. I'd be shocked if it
didn't offer more services in the next few months.

EDIT: And as of today, HBO Go.

~~~
rvlt
True, what i meant was that it only works with video services, is not a screen
sharing tool.

------
ape4
How about a low powers ATSC transmitter?

------
tomkin
I'm happy to see Vanilla Ice take up another profession. Great product.

------
Nux
Great idea! Want!

------
josefresco
Chromecast? I have several and they are pretty much this.

~~~
rvlt
Yes, really cool for youtube videos and chrome tabs (tab casting has a crazy
lag) But in the end you can't share screen and basically any kind of content.
It's a nice device indeed, but so limited and pointless!

------
jc_dntn
Works with both three operating systems.

------
1111y
"Works with both [Mac image][Win image][Linux image]" is kind of annoying...

------
LoneRanger
NO attention to detail at all. "Works with both Windows, Linux and Mac". LOL

~~~
janlukacs
Wow, they are not native speakers - what a shock! maybe they even have typos
somehwere in the text.

