
Co-Working on Vacation: A Desk in Paradise - kanamekun
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/20/business/co-working-on-vacation-a-desk-in-paradise.html
======
kanamekun
It sounds to me like this isn't a vacation at all: it's just a business trip,
paid for by the employee's company.

<< Matej Hrescak, a product designer at Facebook, spent several weeks at the
Surf Office on Gran Canaria in the Canary Islands, near one of the island’s
noted surfing beaches.

“I really appreciate long uninterrupted periods of work time in order to dive
deep into a particular problem, and having a destination where you’re far away
from usual distractions made this possible,” he said. The high-speed Internet,
fully stocked office, access to a kitchen and camaraderie of other guests at
barbecues, biking trips and other planned group activities, he added, all
contributed to his productivity. >>

I wouldn't be very happy if I were expected to contribute to travel or lodging
while "co-working on vacation" \- or if the trip used up any vacation time.

~~~
andyjdavis
The use of the word vacation in relation to remote work is definitely odd.

I personally have been a full-time remote worker for over 3 years now (I'm
Australian but sitting in an apartment in Barcelona right now) and work with a
bunch of other remote workers. We very definitely have very distinct
holidays/vacation time. Our work and personal lives are just as separate as a
regular in-person worker. The only difference is that when I go on vacation I
don't typically have to go anywhere as I have previously relocated to my
desired vacation spot.

~~~
Luyt
Did you have to obtain any special visa or permits for this?

Do you happen to know if it also works the other way round? For example,
suppose I'm from the EU, can I travel to Australia as a tourist and legally
telework from there?

~~~
ashconnor
_Did you have to obtain any special visa or permits for this?_

Australian citizens require a work visa to work in Spain [1]

[1] - [http://www.expatica.co.uk/es/visas-and-permits/work-
permits/...](http://www.expatica.co.uk/es/visas-and-permits/work-permits/Work-
in-Spain-Guide-to-Spanish-work-visas_103258.html)

 _..can I travel to Australia as a tourist and legally telework from there?_

No. Again you need a work visa [2]

[2] -
[http://www.immi.gov.au/Work/Pages/Work.aspx](http://www.immi.gov.au/Work/Pages/Work.aspx)

These articles like to paint a rosy picture of just jumping a plane with your
laptop to an exotic location. The reality if you want to be legal is different
and much more difficult that that.

~~~
SyneRyder
If you're under 30, you could look into the Working Holiday Visa program that
many countries participate in:
[http://www.workingholidayinfo.com/](http://www.workingholidayinfo.com/)

[Side note - the owner of that website also blogs at Nerdy Nomad about working
from a laptop while travelling the world:
[http://www.nerdynomad.com/](http://www.nerdynomad.com/) ]

------
dchmiel
I'm hoping to try the co-working vacation this year to see for myself if I'm
still as productive in a new city or country without being distracted by
wanting to explore this new place I'm in. I think having a space where other
freelancers and startups are working would make it easier to get up do some
work around like minded people and still enjoy a new place.

It's a different twist on traveling that doesn't bind you to trying to see as
much as you can in the 3 weeks you have off a year. You can really get to know
a city or country if you stay there for longer. I don't really want a work
life balance, I want it more intertwined so that I can do my work while living
my life and co-working might just give me a chance to do so. Joel at Buffer
was right about not wanting to have a deferred live plan where we work to then
enjoy life.(1) I think with today's technology and forward thinking bosses and
company's its possible to do great work wherever we are.

I still need to test this out and see if I am actually productive. This fall I
spent a week in Vancouver and a week in Fernie and was really productive even
in a new environment. I think the co-working spaces around the world will just
make it that much easier for me to do longer trips. I'll have the reliable
internet and quite space if needed to do good work without worrying about the
wifi at coffeeshops and worrying about my gear being stolen if I get up and
use the bathroom.

1\. [http://joel.is/why-we-go-on-international-
retreats-3-times-a...](http://joel.is/why-we-go-on-international-
retreats-3-times-a-year-with/)

~~~
andyjdavis
Serious question, what is a "co-working vacation"? If you are working surely
your employer doesn't expect you to use your vacation time.

I have been remote working full-time for over 3 years while my wife and I have
traveled around and do not blur my work and my vacations so I find the term
"co-working vacation" puzzling.

~~~
barrkel
It is a "vacation" in that you are no longer domiciled in your home; you're
travelling.

It is not a "vacation" in that you're not taking time off work.

It has all the aspects of a travelling vacation, except during work hours.

~~~
masklinn
It has all the aspects of a vacation except for the vacation part. Working
from an enjoyable location does not make it a vacation.

It's remote work, not vacation. The ability to remote from various locations
part or all of the year may be an interesting job perk, but if it burns
vacation days you're just getting shafted.

~~~
barrkel
There's more than one aspect to a vacation. Many people specifically take
vacation so that they can travel. The end goal isn't necessarily time not
working, it's experiencing new things in new places.

~~~
masklinn
> There's more than one aspect to a vacation.

Never said there was only one way to spend your vacations.

> Many people specifically take vacation so that they can travel.

So?

> The end goal isn't necessarily time not working

The point of vacation very much to have time off. What you do with that time
off is up to you (possibly up to working at an other job), but if it's not
time off it's not vacation.

> it's experiencing new things in new places.

And if you can negotiate to do that without taking vacations more power to
you, but again vacation is time off.

------
saryant
At the end of the week I'm setting out on something similar. I work for a
startup that lets employees work one month a year from anywhere. I'm flying to
Hong Kong and then onwards to Koh Lanta in Thailand for a month. Beautiful
beaches and (reportedly) decent wifi. There's even a coworking space. The
company offers a cash bonus to cover some of the expenses and I used frequent
flyer miles for the ticket so I'm only out a few hundred bucks from my own
pocket for this excursion.

~~~
chatmasta
I just came from Koh Lanta. Amazing place, quite literally the most beautiful
one I've ever been to. I spent a few days in Ko Phi Phi, which is great for
partying, then went to Koh Lanta to chill. It's incredibly relaxed vibes. I
went to Hong Kong afterward and spent the whole time there missing Koh Lanta!

~~~
saryant
I've only been to Koh Phangan and Koh Samui before so I'm definitely looking
forward to checking out the Andanaman Sea side. Since I'll be working I
decided I don't want to move around islands, just pick one place and work
there.

~~~
chatmasta
Ah nice. I was hoping to make it to Koh Phangan for the full moon party but my
girlfriend got sick that day and we stayed in Phuket. :(

I haven't seen the Eastern islands myself -- definitely next on the list. Be
sure to check out the herbal selection in koh lanta! ;)

------
Luyt
I wonder about the legal aspects of this. I guess one cannot come from
Asia/Europe to the USA on a tourist visum and legally telework from there.
Other countries seem to have trouble with foreign teleworkers, too. Wasn't
there an article about a police raid on a Thai coworking space, a while ago?

But I guess it's allright if you're from Sweden and travel to Spain to enjoy
the Mediterrean during the day and work in the evening (both countries are in
the EU).

~~~
peteretep

        > I guess one cannot come from Asia/Europe to the USA on a
        > tourist visa and legally telework from there. Other
        > countries seem to have trouble with foreign teleworkers,
        > too.
    

I'm not aware of any country taking enforcement action, or even attempting
too, as long as you're not disguising employment in the host country. Who
benefits, seriously? Make sure you're legally resident somewhere where all
your business activities are being conducted via, and that you're paying tax
there.

Who wants to be the first country to say that tourists can't check their work
email while on holiday?

    
    
        > Wasn't there an article about a police raid on a Thai coworking
        > space, a while ago?
    

Yes, but it came down to a misunderstanding about what was going on there.
Chiang Mai police later further clarified that they're fine with tourists
tapping away on their laptops:

[http://chiangmaicitynews.com/news.php?id=4366](http://chiangmaicitynews.com/news.php?id=4366)

~~~
ashconnor
That's true, but they recently deported a few Russian travel guides in Pattaya
despite saying that they would allow them to work a few months before.

The law is really flexible in Thailand. What's unenforced today could be
enforced tomorrow.

~~~
peteretep

        > they recently deported a few Russian travel guides in 
        > Pattaya
    

Which - even if they gave it a nod - is a completely different situation.

    
    
        > The law is really flexible in Thailand
    

Which assuming you aren't destitute, can sometimes work in your favour...

If you're in Bangkok, drop me a line and let's grab a coffee.

~~~
saryant
The people doing this also aren't likely doing visa runs, they'll just come in
under the 30-day visa free entry and then go home once it expires. Much harder
to get caught that way.

Though I did read rumors of Thai police cracking down on a coworking center in
Phuket.

------
larsberg
I work at Mozilla (I believe ~70% remote workers) and certainly see people do
things like this all the time, though often on a smaller scale. For example,
if they have a conference or meeting in Europe or Asia, they might extend the
trip to visit other locations and work from either hotels, coworking spaces,
coffee shops, trains, or "camping" in our other offices.

I certainly encourage it, for people who both want to do it and whose
lifestyle supports it! Caveat international work and visa laws, where
prohibited, of course :-)

------
wnm
does anyone know any other coworking retreats like the ones mentioned in the
article? I'm writing a blog post about this for my remote work newsletter
blog, and so far I found those:

[http://www.thesurfoffice.com/](http://www.thesurfoffice.com/)

[http://coworking.camp/](http://coworking.camp/)

[http://coconat-space.com/](http://coconat-space.com/)

[http://www.sun-desk.com/](http://www.sun-desk.com/)

[http://www.thebluehouse.io/](http://www.thebluehouse.io/)

[http://startupgetaway.co/](http://startupgetaway.co/)

[http://hus24.org/en/](http://hus24.org/en/)

[http://www.sanktoberholz.de/](http://www.sanktoberholz.de/)

[http://www.47ronin.co/](http://www.47ronin.co/)

~~~
curiouscats
[http://www.hackerparadise.org/](http://www.hackerparadise.org/)

I think I met one of the people involved in it at a recent event in Chiang
Mai, Thailand (or maybe someone just told me about it).

~~~
AlexeyMK
Howdy! HackerParadise organizer here.

Shameless plug: we're doing a trip with 4 weeks each in Da Nang, Vietnam, Bali
and Chiang Mai, Thailand starting February 15th and still have a few spots
left. If you're thinking of trying out the workaway lifestyle, check us out
(we handle the hotel + co-working space with good Wi-Fi, snacks & coffee, etc
+ the trip is full of hand-picked, interesting people).

More broadly about the 'burgeoning industry' \- from having interviewed
hundreds of applicants at this point, I don't think the growing trend is
developers going totally nomadic. There's some of that, but then there's also
"I want to get the @%^! out of NYC/Berlin during the winter," or "I want to
take a month off and see how I could work from here". My feeling is it's a lot
more fun to take a month-long workaway than a weeklong vacation, simply
because you don't have to be a tourist at the speed of light (just use the
weekends to explore) and you get a much more authentic experience of the place
you visit while avoiding the guilt of not being productive while the rest of
your team is working hard.

------
yodsanklai
I very often work on vacations (2 to 8 weeks at at time). I work whenever I
feel like it or don't have anything better to do. It's easy to find a few free
hours most days without sacrificing your vacation time. That way, I can travel
longer, and it keeps me busy. However, I normally don't stay more than a few
days at the same place, and don't work full days so co-working wouldn't really
make sense for me.

However, it sounds like a good idea if you want to be at a specific place for
some time and don't want to be alone at the hotel or in a coffee shop. That
way, you could socialize with similarly-minded people or work in a more
engaging environment.

------
strooltz
Definitely check out Hubud in Ubud, Bali. I'm out here for 9 weeks teaching a
Rails bootcamp and they have the whole work/lifestyle thing figured out...
[http://hubud.org](http://hubud.org)

------
normloman
This would be fun IF:

1\. My boss paid for the whole thing 2\. and paid for my family to go with me
3\. and it didn't count toward my paid vacation days.

(In other words, no chance in hell.)

But if I'm taking off to go somewhere, you can forget it. My vacation is for
me.

~~~
masklinn
1 and 2 make no sense unless it's a long-term business trip. But if you're
working and expected to work, it definitely shouldn't count towards vacation
(otherwise it's a vacation and you don't do jack shit for the company)

~~~
normloman
1 makes perfect sense. I can only afford 1 big trip a year. So of course I
would spend it on a real vacation, and not some business trip. If my boss
wants me to travel, my boss should pay.

As for 2 - You'd have to pay me a ton of money to abandon my wife for two
weeks. Paying for my wife to go with me is just cheaper for my boss. :-)

~~~
masklinn
If your boss sends you somewhere that's a business trip. The article is not
about business trips.

So no, neither 1 nor 2 make sense because they've got nothing to do with the
article.

------
contingencies
Co-working spaces tend to suck, in my experience. First, there's the knobs on
phones all the time. Even talking in loud hushed voices and walking outside,
they're still distracting. Then, there's the people constantly talking
trivia... hi, weather, lunch dates, coffee. Finally, the lighting is almost
always crap: high glare or artificial. Every one I've yet seen has been
centered on a massive open office cubicle type layout... the worst thing for
programming. Finally, often they're not even cheap. I much prefer hotels.

~~~
cylinder
what is the best type of lighting for this type of space?

~~~
contingencies
Low but readable natural with access to personal (ie. non-intrusive for
others), diffuse, ideally broad-wavelength lighting when required.

At no point should (1) a light be in anyone's eye while they are looking at a
screen (2) window/skylight/outside be reflected on top of anyone's screen (3)
major thoroughfares be located directly in front of anyone.

This requires thoughtful seating arrangements and non-crappy
architecture/interior design.

------
chatmasta
I own HackAbroad.net and HackAbroad.com. I am interested in developing a
program for college students to spend a summer/term abroad, hacking on their
own projects. I want to use it as an excuse to go abroad myself. Would likely
entail building hype, taking applications, then choosing a location and
renting a place for a few months.

I just graduated from Yale and want to develop this in the next 6 months. If
anyone wants to assist, please get in touch - miles.richardson@yale.edu

~~~
clueless123
I handle exactly that for a few US university summer programs here in Peru
(Cuzco, Machu Pichu, Amazon Rain forest etc..)

I'll send you an email..

------
lucaspiller
I moved to the UAE last year and feel rather disappointed there aren't that
many techies or co-working spaces here. If anyone would like to come here for
a popup retreat to the desert let me know, there are some pretty amazing
places here, e.g.:

[http://qasralsarab.anantara.com](http://qasralsarab.anantara.com)

Most countries get visa on arrival, and the country is a hub for two big
international airlines, so getting in is easy!

------
klausjensen
Please, somebody do this at a good skiing location.

I did it myself with 3 other guys back in 07-08 in Fernie, Canada, and it was
awesome - but also a lot of work to get set up across the world before we
arrived.

~~~
mhomde
You're in luck! I actually have two friends who just started their own little
space in Chamonix, might not be the most professionally organized office right
now but really fun guys and awesome location

[http://theskilocker.com/](http://theskilocker.com/)

~~~
AlexeyMK
A friend and I have been skiworking in Austria over the past week, actually.
We'll ski from ~10 to 12:30 then hit up a cabin at the top with good Wi-Fi,
have lunch and work until ~3PM, ski until 4 or so, then go back to the hotel
and have dinner & do a second work session after dinner.

It's been surprisingly great, though certainly pricier (even with the deal we
got) than doing an equivalent attempt with Surfing in SE Asia. I also don't
think I'd do it for more than a couple of weeks. Let me know if you're curious
about a writeup and I'll put one together.

~~~
UnethicalHacks
that would be an interesting write-up

------
roel_v
So what does a place like this cost, to stay (i.e., room with bed), to live
(eat/do stuff) and work (desk and wifi)?

~~~
mzeitler
Hi, this is Matthias from Coworking Camp.

Generally we aim to make Coworking Camp affordable for early stage startup
founders. The cost to attend consists of different components: 1) You need a
Coworking Camp ticket. It ranges from €250 (1 week) to €650 (6 weeks). There
are ealry bird discounts, so make sure to signup to our newsletter. Also there
are volunteer opportunities available that get you a free ticket.

2) We haven't finalized the hotel for Tunisia yet, but expect about €30 per
night for a single room with all inclusive food/drinks. Double rooms will be
slightly cheaper and we are trying to also negotiate an early booking
discount.

3) There are cheap flights around €200 to Tunisia from nearly all major
European airports. For the cheapest option look for tourist charter flights
leaving on weekends. It is also possible to fly to Tunis and then take a cheap
bus or train to the hotel. More info once we decided about the hotel.

So the total for the ticket, the hotel and the flight should about €650 (1
week) to €2100 (6 weeks). If you share rooms, volunteer or book early the cost
could go down.

($1 is a little less than 1€)

~~~
roel_v
That's not too bad, thanks.

