
Jopwell (YC S15) Is Building the Missing “Pipeline” of Diverse Candidates - frankdenbow
http://techcrunch.com/2015/07/15/jopwell/
======
ipsin
"Job seekers, who must have a college degree in any discipline..."

I think it's a mistake to ignore candidates with a proven track record but no
college degree.

~~~
ryanswilliams
I'm Ryan, co-founder of Jopwell. There are many different points along the
spectrum where problems relating to diversity can be tackled; we're
specifically focused on the collegiate and post-collegiate employment puzzle.
This is simply a reflection of our initial target market and the immediate
hiring interests/needs of our partner companies.

~~~
leereeves
Do college educated people of color with tech skills currently have trouble
finding work in the industry, or is the problem that there simply aren't
enough people like that?

You may be addressing the wrong problem.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Do college educated people of color with tech skills currently have trouble
> finding work in the industry,

Compared to similarly-educated, similary-skilled white people, my impression
is, on average, yes. (Where "people of color" is taken to mean "from groups
underrepresented in technology"; there are certain non-white groups for which
I don't get the impression that this is the case.) Largely because of network
factors.

> or is the problem that there simply aren't enough people like that?

That's _also_ a problem. The two are not mutually exclusive.

~~~
leereeves
> Compared to similarly-educated, similary-skilled white people, my impression
> is, on average, yes.

Is that based on personal experience, data, or ?

~~~
dragonwriter
Its an impression based on personal experience, immediate-circle anecdotes,
and other non-structured, potentially non-representative data, as well as
various bits of more structured research I've seen that is not directly on
point (e.g., not tech-specific, but general to hiring, such as on responses to
ethnic names in hiring processes) but seems to suggestive in the absence of
more specific, field-specific research.

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pbraswell
Porter Braswell, CEO of Jopwell here. Really excited to be connecting
minorities with job opportunities in tech and other industries. Lots of work
to be done but our team is eager to help make the workforce a bit more
colorful! Happy to be a part of this discussion.

~~~
Mz
I was surprised at how good it sounds. These things are usually handled so
very badly. But I am curious why _women_ were not included in this effort as
an underrepresented group in tech. Are there plans to do so at some point? Or
is the intent to only address racial issues?

Thanks.

~~~
ryanswilliams
Great questions! While there are certainly other underrepresented groups -
including women, the LGBTQ community, veterans, individuals with disabilities,
and other racial groups - we set out to be "everything for someone" rather
than risk being "something for everyone." We hope that Jopwell's success with
our initial target demographic allows us to expand the range of individuals
whose lives we impact.

As an added note, Jopwell doesn't just serve the tech community. We are
focused on connecting individuals with opportunities in a wide range of
industries, including tech, healthcare, consulting, finance, and not-for-
profits.

~~~
Mz
Thank you.

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iandanforth
Forgive my ignorance but is it legal to hire someone and say that a major
component of their hiring was their race? I'm guessing it must be OK for some
predifined races?

~~~
dragonwriter
> Forgive my ignorance but is it legal to hire someone and say that a major
> component of their hiring was their race?

No, and so using Jopwell as a sole funnel would probably be quite illegal.

Using it as a source of additional candidates to compensate from lack of
diversity in one's existing funnel, however, would probably not only not be
illegal, but probably mitigate the risk of suit based on adverse impact due to
the manner in which the existing funnel was created.

~~~
NateLawson
This is exactly right. There is no such company which is rushing to drop their
Stanford recruiting program, friends and family referral bonus, or other
sources solely for Jopwell. This is not a problem that will ever exist in our
universe.

------
forthwall
It might better to clarify what type of minority your service is looking for
on the first page of your sign-up rather than your second - especially since
you put in your contact details in the first (and don't really know if that
information is already submitted).

Was going to ask about legality too, but it seems like it was already
answered.

+Nice job guys, I like the idea.

~~~
ryanswilliams
Appreciate the feedback! We'll definitely consider this - we don't want any
confusion about who our site currently serves. Tks for the input.

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bradsiegler
People will exhaust themselves trying to scrape together thin, crap arguments
attempting to minimize what you're doing. Just keep pushing. I love the
mission and can't wait to see you grow!

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dmitrygr
As a person who grew up in a place where discrimination based on
gender/age/race was not really a thing, this strikes me as insane! This really
does feel like discrimination, just in the opposite direction.

Is it some sort of a conspiracy here to not discuss this that I am not aware
of? Or is discrimination towards some OK but not towards others?

~~~
dang
I don't believe you were deliberately trolling, but on reflection, I do think
your comments in this thread have broken the HN guidelines [1], which say:

"Please avoid introducing classic flamewar topics unless you have something
genuinely new to say about them."

You didn't engage with anything specific about this story. You only raised the
most automatic and generic and obvious of objections, in an outraged tone.
That's precisely what that guideline asks you not do to.

Moreover, you got some really thoughtful replies that (agree or not) were
clearly trying to answer you meaningfully. But you responded with more
automatic dismissals (e.g.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9893128](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9893128)).
That is not substantive discussion. I'm impressed (edit: and grateful!) that
frankdenbow and the other users replying to you stayed as respectful and
thoughtful as they did.

HN is a public forum; the public is divided; we can't expect everyone to
agree. We can, though, expect you to actually engage with others, with the
real problems they're working on or facing, and ask questions and listen to
replies in good faith. Respectful disagreement on a divisive topic is hard
enough when people do meet this standard; it's impossible when they don't. One
violation can blow an entire crater in the discussion. Please don't do that
again.

1\.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

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gesman
Are there any russians among employees? :)

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gfodor
Serious question: is this legal?

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orthoganol
Isn't there a fear that candidates will be worried about being thought of as
the "Jopwell guy"? Seems inevitable if Jopwell is thought of as the place you
go to add minorities for your team, e.g. some individuals will think of them
as affirmative action candidates, and the candidates themselves will be afraid
of being thought that way.

I suppose it's not an issue if the strategy is to be an invisible
intermediary, so people wouldn't where they came from.

~~~
ryanswilliams
Great question - thanks for posing it! Just how someone identified via
LinkedIn, indeed, or Monster would not be branded as a "Company-x guy",
Jopwell candidates have not been labeled negatively as a result of being on
the platform. Jopwell is simply the resource through which these individuals
are finding out about opportunities they might have otherwise been unaware of.
As a reminder, these individuals are not hired BECAUSE they are on Jopwell -
Jopwell is simply a tool that helps companies ensure that they are considering
an applicant pool of individuals from varied backgrounds. From a user
perspective, Jopwell helps individuals learn about companies and jobs and
hopefully (if they are the BEST person for the job) attain employment. Hope
that helps to clarify!

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potlick
Reminds me of
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A0hBfx5ccY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A0hBfx5ccY)

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k0
I get it now! See for yourself at the Founder's LinkedIn pages [or the Jopwell
Team page]. You have two outstanding young men with some great work experience
but whom also have extraordinarily white-sounding names yet are not white. My
question about just using pictures is now proven to be a potential solution.
I'm sure some code that infers the race of a candidate from a digital photo
could be used and may be a potential patent.

Edit: Adding that self-identifying race on a candidate's profile may not be
optimal when US anti-discrimination hiring laws are in effect. However, a
picture is worth a thousand words. If you are shallow enough to hire from a
pool that excludes one or more races, then you are also shallow enough to hire
a candidate based on their photograph. I understand that some companies are
not diverse enough, but there are root causes that Jopwell is not addressing.
One cause is America has deep Anglo-Saxon and European roots hence the
majority of the population is/was White; the opposite issue may be present in
Africa, India, or China where 'whites' are minorities. However, choosing
candidates from a racially-segregated pool for the appearance of being diverse
seems so shallow. Allowing all candidates, regardless of race, and simply
including a photo of a candidate absolves Jopwell on several fronts.

I'm fine with the downvotes, even if I do not understand why. These are valid
points.

