
Radioactivity in Tobacco - ahiknsr
https://www.epa.gov/radtown/radioactivity-tobacco
======
throw_away
> Tobacco farmers use fertilizer to help their crops grow. These fertilizers
> contain a naturally-occurring radionuclide, radium. Radium radioactively
> decays to release radon gas, which then rises from the soil around the
> plants. As the plant grows, the radon from fertilizer, along with naturally-
> occurring radon in surrounding soil and rocks, cling to the sticky hairs on
> the bottom of tobacco leaves, called trichomes. Radon later decays into the
> radioactive elements lead-210 and polonium-210. Rain does not wash them
> away. Polonium-210 is an alpha emitter and carries the most risk.

Isn't this true of every plant we cultivate and put into our bodies? Or is
there something particular about tobacco trichromes and Radon? Or tobacco-
specific fertilizers? Inhalation vs. ingestion? This is all coming on the
heels of learning yesterday that everyone has like 20-60 lbs of lead in their
back yard:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23039020](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23039020)

~~~
BlueYoshi
Tobacco leaves have sticky hairs on their underside, which is what makes them
different from other crops: it’s these hairs that absorb the radon and prevent
it from being washed away with water. Also, the type of fertilizer used for
Tobacco might be different than fertilizers used for other crops.

~~~
throwaway_pdp09
No, many plants have these AFAIK. Tomato leaves are pretty sticky. Potatoes
too IIRC. Happens that both of these are in the same family as tobacco though.

I just realised your point that tobacco is a leaf crop unlike spuds and toms,
so ok, point taken.

~~~
seszett
Tobacco is a lot more sticky than most other crops, to the point that it has
been hypothesised to be a semi-carnivorous plant. Insects actually get caught
in them, it's just unknown of the plant actually actively digests them. That's
also why harvesting tobacco is not very pleasant, with all the stuff stuck on
their leaves.

~~~
throwaway_pdp09
Actually I've heard exactly the same - including the conclusion of vegetal
carnivory - for tomatoes too.

Surprising number of links here:
[https://duckduckgo.com/html?q=tomatoes%20carnivorous%20stick...](https://duckduckgo.com/html?q=tomatoes%20carnivorous%20sticky)

If you pick on, this [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/attack-of-
the-kil...](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/attack-of-the-killer-
tomatoes-1834638.html)

~~~
pfdietz
Bean leaves also have sharp protrusions, I understand. Probably for defense
against insects more than carnivory. Freshly picked bean leaves placed on the
floor are supposed to be a defense against bedbugs.

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acidburnNSA
This is very nearly useless because it doesn't give the range of dose rates
they see in tobacco (am I missing them!?). Low radiation doses are normal and
natural and have been part of life forever. High doses from concentrated stuff
can cause trouble. So what range are we dealing with here!?

When you have detectors capable of seeing a single atom decaying, quantitative
dose rates are always required to have a meaningful and useful conversation.

~~~
abpavel
Incorrect. There is no such thing as safe dose with Radon. You're thinking of
gamma rays and 50mSv/year safe limit. You won't find safe limit for Radon.
There are guidelines when you should be very concerned, but there is no safe
limit.

It decays into radioactive lead, and once we breath it in, it's hard to get
rid of, and stays in our bodies.

~~~
gbin
I have a hard time making sense of this. Would it mean 1 atom of Rn is always
fatal for any individual? The fact that it accumulates in the body doesn't
mean it is fatal at any dose.

~~~
saagarjha
No, of course not, but Radon is highly radioactive and extremely small amounts
are enough to measurably elevate your risk of cancer. We’re talking numbers
like a few million molecules in a room.

~~~
gmueckl
We need to be more specific: Radon is a gas that goes through alpha decay. It
is this specific combination that makes it dangerous. The gaseous form enables
easy ingestion by breathing and alpha particles are extremely damaging at
short ranges - sub-mm in solid matter. The dead outer skin layer is normally
able to perfectly absorb alpha particles which make most emitters effectively
harmless. Ingested alpha emitters are different as the emitted alpha particle
enters living cells immediately. At that point it is a game of chance whether
something gets destroyed or altered that is important for cell reproduction.
Also, ingested radioactive emitters are impossible to remove from the human
body.

~~~
saagarjha
> Also, ingested radioactive emitters are impossible to remove from the human
> body.

I think that’s only true for things we don’t metabolize?

~~~
gmueckl
Right. I should have rather said that there are no medical treatments that can
remove ingested radioactive emitters in any meaningful way.

~~~
pfdietz
Chelation has been used to remove ingested Am, Pu, and Cm. It takes a while,
though.

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smdz
Every year 8 million people die because of tobacco. In the US alone, the
number of deaths (due to tobacco) per year is close to half a million.
Similarly between 4-7 million people die due to air pollution. Ironically,
that does not alarm anyone, that does not cause lockdowns, that does not
require flattening the curve. The numbers don't lie - global lockdowns that
led to significant drop in air pollution may have coincidentally saved more
lives and helped mother nature heal.

~~~
pm90
Smoking is a choice.

~~~
mpranjic
Secondhand (passive) smoking often isn't. :(

------
ccffpphh
Is radium only present in tobacco fertilizers? What separates tobacco
fertilizers from other plant fertilizers? Am I at risk for eating tomatoes
grown with normal off-the-shelf fertilizer?

~~~
ISL
Radium is also present in Brazil Nuts. Some plants aggregate chemical elements
more than others.

We use them to linearize the energy scale in lower-background germanium
detectors. Grocery-store potassium chloride sets our energy calibration.

The bad thing about radium in tobacco, I am told, is that the alpha-emitting
radium (or the daughters) tends to aggregate in the lungs. Alphas do a lot of
nearby damage, hence a mechanism for lung cancer.

I still eat Brazil nuts without a second thought, even though I've measured
the gammas...

~~~
raverbashing
> Grocery-store potassium chloride sets our energy calibration.

I'm guessing this gives a new meaning for the phrase "banana for scale"

~~~
ISL
Could be, though the KCl is a better standard. We know how much KCl we have,
and the natural abundance of K40 is well-known.

You'd need a dedicated campaign to assess the potassium abundance in the
"standard" banana before you could use it at better than ~100+% errorbars.

The salt-substitute shaker is probably a <5% standard, and we've been using
the same one for years.... :).

------
pm90
Hate to be that person but... does the cannabis plant have similar properties?

~~~
staplor
I believe it would since cannabis also has sticky trichromes on its bud and
surrounding leaves.

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barney54
"Toxic chemicals in tobacco smoke are the main reason cigarettes cause cancer,
but radiation also may play a part." That's the best that EPA can do here? Is
there really no data?

~~~
acidburnNSA
No one has conclusively shown that radiation causes or does not cause cancer
at low doses, on the order of the world's variation of the natural background
radiation dose. There are lots of data. It is noisy.

~~~
User23
It may even be healthy[1]. It stands to reason that organisms that evolved in
a radioactive environment would have some physiological ability to compensate
and that it would follow the general adaptation pattern. Mithridatism is very
real after all.

[1]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis)

~~~
pfdietz
Or, it may be even more dangerous at low doses than LNT implies. The data are
too noisy to tell.

------
User23
Also polonium.
[https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/radiation/smoking.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/radiation/smoking.htm)

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mark-r
Bananas are radioactive too, due to their potassium content. Nobody worries
much about those.

~~~
riffraff
Radioactivity derived from tobacco is significantly higher than from bananas.

There is a very nice episode of Veritasium (science divulgation YouTube
channel) which shows exactly this together with other "well known" radioactive
sources (e.g. Chernobyl, Fukushima, Marie Curie's office etc)

------
lihaciudaniel
Radioactivity in Meth. The devices and instrument used in the production of
Meth have been seen to contain a lot of unclean particles and may be the cause
for users to get sick

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dr_dshiv
Has this been measured in tobacco-based vape liquid?

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t0ughcritic
Is this applicable to vape salts as well?

~~~
raverbashing
I'm guessing they're mostly synthetic so, probably not.

