
The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignored By US Media - gnubardt
http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/41235/the-largest-prison-strike-in-american-history-goes-ignored-by-us-media/
======
Goladus
The article is wrong.

This was covered in the NY Times. The articles were published on the same day.

<http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/16/us/16prison.html>

Edit-- Actually, this was covered in the NYT 4 days ago, and the article was
submitted to Hacker News and ignored:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1996994>

Plus, the issue of it being "ignored by US media" is not covered by the
article in anything resembling an intellectual way, and merely serves as a
sensational hook to get people reading a story already covered by other
sources.

[http://www.southernstudies.org/2010/12/georgia-prisoner-
stri...](http://www.southernstudies.org/2010/12/georgia-prisoner-strike-comes-
out-of-lockdown.html)

[http://www.blackagendareport.com/?q=georgia_prison_strike_in...](http://www.blackagendareport.com/?q=georgia_prison_strike_interview_update_dec15)

~~~
jokermatt999
You'll see the "ignored by the MSM!" angle a lot on these kind of political
stories. It's on reddit all the time. Look for headlines like "WTF?! Prisoners
on strike and Fox News refuses to report on it! FUCK YOU FOX!!"

It's an easy angle to drum up interest in the story and pander to your readers
by making them think they're getting the "real" story.

~~~
jackolas
Well it was being ignored for the first few days, it only just started to get
picked up by NYT etc.

------
sage_joch
"... prisoners in Georgia are forced to work without pay for their labor--
seemingly a violation of the 13th Amendment, which prohibits slavery and
involuntary servitude."

I hadn't thought about that before, but that's a very interesting point. The
fact that such a high percentage of the prison population is black makes it
hit home a little harder.

~~~
anon11
"Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, _except as a punishment
for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted_ , shall exist
within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate
legislation."

~~~
fleitz
There are many ways to interpret that statement. One interpretation would go
towards that a judge may specify involuntary servitude (eg. community service)
as punishment, and another would say that involuntary servitude is implied by
the prison sentence.

I'm sure the prisoners take the former interpretation that involuntary
servitude was not specified as punishment and thus is unconstitutional.

Also, the 13th amendment absolutely bans slavery, so if you can construe
characteristics of ownership then you could make it unconstitutional. Georgia
also has a history of abusing the law to keep slavery in all but name going
which would negatively impact the states' case in a non-southern court, and
would make a good case as to the intent of Georgian legislation being to
revive slavery. I mean when they're trying to put the Confederate flag back on
their flag it gives a person pause as to the intent of not paying their labor.
<http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,85078,00.html>

This is why most states pay their employees in prison a pittance rather than
absolutely nothing. It avoids the issue entirely and makes it one of labor
law.

Re-education through labor, not just for communists anymore!

~~~
ynniv
_Re-education through labor, not just for communists anymore!_

It is also for capitalists. Georgia has a number of privately operated, for
profit prisons. (It does not appear that any of them were involved in this
strike.)

[
[http://www.dcor.state.ga.us/Divisions/Corrections/PrivatePri...](http://www.dcor.state.ga.us/Divisions/Corrections/PrivatePrisons.html)
] [ <http://www.thegeogroupinc.com/> ] [ <http://www.correctionscorp.com/> ]

~~~
jberryman
Welcome to the Prison-Industrial Complex: it's like slavery but with more rape
jokes!

~~~
salemh
While sarcastic, the state of the "Prison-Industrial" complex reads like a
science fiction novel.

~~~
rbanffy
You know sci-fi is frequently not about predicting the future, but preventing
it.

------
Dove
Their demands seem entirely reasonable to me. I'm ashamed to belong to a
society in which such demands must be made, more so that they would be
ignored.

~~~
ars
I'm not inclined to believe things prisoners say about their conditions.

So while I agree the demands are reasonable, I'm not (yet) convinced that they
needed to be made or that they are ignored.

(Except for the fruits/vegetables, because realistically while they may ask
for it, they aren't going to eat it.)

~~~
salemh
I'll make this quick, and monitor to see if interest demands me go into more
detail (personal experience).

We do not rehabilitate prisoners. We have a ridiculous recidivism rate (60%+
depending on your data, demographic, etc).

We have the highest amount of citizens in prison then any Western country.

If the Mandatory Minimum Federal laws for drugs were flipped with actual State
Violent crimes, we would have a much better society.

I would love to see inmates having the ability to pursue a trade, learn
programming, learn a skill which Trumps their felony..which is incredibly
difficult. Felon's are obligated by law to note if they have been Charged with
a Felony (depending on the wording, for example: "convicted in the last 7
years" you may mark NO if, it has in fact, been 8).

Something that may be of interest.

[http://www.npr.org/blogs/talk/2008/02/getting_out_life_after...](http://www.npr.org/blogs/talk/2008/02/getting_out_life_after_prison_1.html)

~~~
axod
If there were less people in prison, and less reoffenders, who would make all
the military equipment, household appliances, license plates etc etc for free?

The US would have no slaves to work with!

edit: Since I'm being downmodded for stating fact:

[http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=82...](http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8289)
[http://www.darkgovernment.com/news/slavery-in-u-s-prison-
sys...](http://www.darkgovernment.com/news/slavery-in-u-s-prison-system/)
[http://newworkerfeatures.blogspot.com/2010/02/us-prison-
labo...](http://newworkerfeatures.blogspot.com/2010/02/us-prison-labour-
return-to-slavery.html) <http://www.insideprison.com/prison-industry-
labor.asp>

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwT6CisM0mU>

There was also a great wikipedia article listing all the different things that
inmates make. If they refuse, they're subjected to solitary confinement.

The US should be thoroughly ashamed. Not that it'll ever be reported by the
mainstream media.

~~~
jbooth
That misses the mark.. prisons are expensive. We'd be better off paying people
$8/hr to make that stuff and not paying to house and guard them.

The real reason is because you immediately lose a political argument if you're
accused of being soft on crime. So there's absolutely no reasoned debate on
the topic, the only time it comes up is when every so often a pol comes up
with some dumbass punitive and counter-productive measure to get a headline.
Additionally, most prisoners are black, and everyone knows this, while 80% of
voters in most districts are white.

So basically, the way we're acting is both short-term stupid (could just pay
day laborers and save money) and long-term stupid (creating lifetime criminals
by destroying other options for them).

------
smokeyj
I think it's important to note that breaking the law isn't necessarily
unethical, therefore we should carefully consider our treatment towards
"criminals". The US has the highest incarceration rate in the world, with
Georgia leading the US. It isn't pretty.

~~~
fleitz
The law being ethical is what lawyers would call a 'legal fiction'.

This is why the first juries established jury nullification.

~~~
kelnos
Unfortunately, it seems recently most of the time juries are not informed of
their nullification abilities (and the defense is often prohibited from
mentioning it). Sadly this line of reasoning has been upheld in court.

~~~
dedward
They didn't "establish nullification" - nullification is simply the logical
outcome that the jury's decision is final, and can't be questioned.

The reason judges don't want this fact brought up by counsel during court is
because it would render the legal system meaningless... in general I think
we'd all LIKE the jury focused on the law and the evidence, not their gut
feelings.

This always comes up in discussions when we feel the law is unjust and the
accused isn't getting a fair trial - but please consider, if counsel were
allowed to bring this up in court and instruct the jury that, you know,
regardless of what you have heard here, you can vote however you feel like it
and, you know, nobody is allowed to give you shit over it afterwards.... that
street runs both ways. You'd have people who DO deserve punishment getting off
scott free.

~~~
fleitz
It wouldn't render the legal system meaningless. It would return verdicts
according to your 12 peers. Jury Nullification is not about using your gut
feelings its used for when the application of the law would return an unjust
or immoral result. There is in my estimation, no better judge of the law than
12 of your peers.

------
j_baker
"We have the Crips and the Bloods, we have the Muslims, we have the head
Mexicans, and we have the Aryans all with a peaceful understanding, all on
common ground."

Whatever's happening, they must have done something terrible to cause that.

~~~
ams6110
I found it surprising that the strike was apparently coordinated across many
state prisons by use of cell phones. I thought possession of cell phones was
generally banned in prisons.

~~~
shepting
Many times guards will bring in cell phones and sell them to inmates for
upwards of $1000/each.

It helps to supplement the (relatively) poor wages most guards receive.

~~~
bugsy
It's interesting that some inmates have thousands of dollars in cash on their
persons.

------
aheilbut
Based on the accuracy of the headline, I'm not sure how much trust I have in
the source. Doesn't seem as if this news is being ignored by the MSM:

<http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/12/us/12prison.html> Prisoners Strike in
Georgia

<http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/16/us/16prison.html> Some Georgia Inmates
Return to Work

------
sliverstorm
At the very least, it seems like it'd be a good idea to respond to this
positively if only to encourage non-violent, instead of violent, prison
protests in the future.

------
gnubardt
There's also a good interview about the strikes on Democracy Now with prisoner
advocate Elaine Brown.

 _“Repression Breeds Resistance”_

[http://www.democracynow.org/2010/12/14/prisoner_advocate_ela...](http://www.democracynow.org/2010/12/14/prisoner_advocate_elaine_brown_on_georgia)

------
tptacek
Somebody connect this to Hacker News for me. If this is Hacker News, what
human rights story isn't?

~~~
Roboprog
It's a media issue. It's seemingly an important issue, but it isn't covered
much. Admittedly, "media" is on the fringes of programming and business.

Besides, many programmers have a libertarian bent, and locking people up,
often for questionable stuff, and treating them like dirt rankles. Not that
many of them don't deserve to be worked to pay back societal debt. But don't
abuse them and feed them junk.

~~~
natrius
It's an article that appeals to us and I'm glad I saw it, but I don't think
it's hacker news.

~~~
gbog
Not HN, and annoyingly US-centric...

------
anonymoushn
Easy fix to crowding due to budget cuts: Release all prisoners who are held
only on drug charges.

~~~
nolok
Private prison lobbies won't let that happen

------
aberkowitz
It will be interesting to see how the strike dissipates, or fails to
dissipate, based on the effectiveness of prisoner's communication networks.

------
iwwr
Non-violent, therefore not newsworthy.

------
J3L2404
In the 1830s de Tocqueville reported on a reformatory in Massachusetts where
the prisoners had a voting system in order to make decisions about mealtimes
and exercise etc. The interesting thing was the way in which the voting
worked. All prisoners had a vote regardless of disciplinary actions but if you
stayed out of trouble you had two votes and this system worked very well
according to Alexis. Tocqueville in America was quite a good read, although
long, and has many insights into early America.

------
J3L2404
"Today marks the end of a seven-day strike where tens of thousands of inmates
in Georgia refused to work or leave their cells until their demands had been
met. The odd thing is, that until today, no one had ever heard about this
strike."

FALSE

I posted this NYT article 4 days ago.
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1996994>

~~~
Goladus
Seriously.

That death+taxes site set off all kinds of propaganda alarms in my head, and a
5-second google search debunked the initial assertion.

I'm very disappointed with Hacker News.

------
lhnn
I believe prisoners do have minimal rights, and to the extent feasible, should
get a decent meal and perhaps reading material. Weights and playgrounds? Not
so much. They should be busting rocks or chopping wood, or something else that
is not fun.

Make prison too cozy and beneficial, and you give an incentive for crime.

Also, an alternative cost-cutter to triple bunking prisoners is to incarcerate
fewer people, by decriminalizing victim-less acts (cough cough).

~~~
potatolicious
And yet, study after study has shown that harsher punishments do little to
deter crime, and that despite the poor state that prisons are in, and the
conditions one experiences there, recidivism is still ridiculously high.

I've heard the same argument for homelessness and their support structures -
make homelessness too easy, who wants to work? I've always asked people who
spout this nonsense to go take a look at a homeless shelter or a soup kitchen
line - I regularly volunteer at both - and then come back and tell me with a
straight face that _anyone_ sane will deliberately put themselves in that
situation.

I'd tell you do so for prison, but that's not really plausible short of
actually ending up in the big house. So instead, I'll urge you to go talk to
some people who _have_ been in prison, and figure out a little bit of what
happens there. It is not "fun", nor is it any place a sane person would
willingly and deliberately put themselves.

~~~
gyardley
But _are_ prisons primarily for rehabilitation or deterrence?

If someone were to hurt or kill someone close to me, I would want him to go to
prison for _punishment_ , if we couldn't just kill him and be done with it.

When I think about this hypothetical person getting, say, programming lessons
with my tax dollars, that only makes me angry.

I assume prisons are how they are in part because my attitude is fairly
common.

None of the above diminishes the problems of wrongful convictions, cruel and
unusual punishments, prison rape, victimless crimes, and so on.

~~~
brown9-2
_But are prisons primarily for rehabilitation or deterrence?If someone were to
hurt or kill someone close to me, I would want him to go to prison for
punishment, if we couldn't just kill him and be done with it_

And this is why the justice system is about punishing people in regards to
what is best for society and the community/public as a whole, not judgments
based on the need for personal retribution.

~~~
gyardley
True -- but don't forget that prisons exist as a replacement for retribution,
which was often less accurate and had a tendency to escalate into open feuding
between families, ethnic groups, or religious groups.

If prisons aren't an adequate replacement for personal retribution, but a need
for personal retribution still exists, the public will either correct the
prisons or revert to their previous practices.

I'm all for certain aspects of prison reform, but we mess with their role as
punishment at our peril.

As a side note, I suspect that the United States' use of the death penalty and
comparatively poor prison conditions is largely due to its relatively recent
history of vigilantism, the increased tendency of its people to distrust the
government, and the relative predominance of firearms. The punishment aspect
of prisons needs to be more pronounced in the United States than, say, Europe,
in order to keep its citizenry content.

I suspect there's also regional variations - in states where distrust of
governmental authority is more predominant and vigilantism more recent and
frequent, prisons are harsher and the death penalty used more.

------
nodata
_Poor conditions and substandard medical care are also on the inmates’ list of
demands._

Somehow I doubt that..

~~~
anigbrowl
Tsk tsk, HN. As written, the quoted sentence suggests the inmates are
demanding poor conditions, the opposite of what was intended.

