
Launch HN: SafetyWing (YC W18) – A Global Safety Net for Digital Nomads - SRasch
Hi HN! We&#x27;re the founders of SafetyWing in the current YC batch. We&#x27;re working on a global safety net for online freelancers, starting with health insurance, which you can get here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.safetywing.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.safetywing.com</a><p>When we quit our jobs to become digital nomads, we discovered that if you are not a full-time employee, you&#x27;re pretty much on your own. You lose stable income and most benefits when you earn money as a freelancer or entrepreneur, and lose the rest of your safety nets by being abroad. We decided to do something about this, and the result is SafetyWing.<p>We&#x27;re three Norwegians: Sondre is also founder of freelancer platform Konsus.com (YC W16). Sarah is CTO, former lead engineer of ad-network Tapdaq &amp; she’s also a musician. Hans a is lawyer and former head of legal at Auka, which is like white-label Venmo.<p>Our first product is $37 per month (4 weeks) for worldwide travel and medical insurance ($30 add-on for US, since US healthcare is much more expensive). It only works when you’re outside your home country, although there is 30 days home country coverage every 3 months so you can visit home (15 for U.S. residents). Covers hospital, doctor, prescription, etc.<p>The hardest thing about making the product has been licensing and getting trust from an insurer. To do that we hired two senior insurance experts who have been in the industry for 30 years. They helped us design it, and get the deal with insurance giant Tokio Marine.<p>Why is it so cheap? 1. Three major exclusions: preventive care, long-term cancer treatment and pre-existing conditions. 
 Acute onset of pre-existing conditions is covered though; 2. The price is for ages 18-39. Other ages can buy though at higher prices—sorry, it’s the way this industry works; 3. Lower commissions compared to insurance sold via agents.<p>This is the first step in a plan to build a global safety net for online freelancers and entrepreneurs.<p>Look forward to getting feedback and hearing ideas from HN. We know there are digital nomads frequenting here, and we’d also be really interested in hearing about your experiences with health care or safety nets in general.
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jankotek
Hm, I have worldwide (except US) medical insurance for 60euro/month. Your
product seems just like regular travel insurance (evacuation only, no actual
medical cover). Not sure what it offers compared to my insurance.

So I want:

\- table that compares your insurance to alternatives

\- clarify "evacuation", many nomads do not have a regular home.

\- short extract from terms and conditions (maximal coverage, co-payment,
etc...). Web is very vague...

\- fix your terms & conditions, it is branded to other company.....

~~~
HKjellby
Thanks for great feedback.

\- A comparison is currently in the making. \- We will clarify "evacuation"
and also add max coverage/deductible for every coverage under the explore
button on the website.

I should add that we do provide medical cover, not only evacuation.

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arcticbull
In the past, I've used Cigna Global to provide full medical insurance to me
anywhere on earth. This isn't travel insurance, it's actually full expat
health cover. If I'm in Hong Kong and I need a checkup, they'll cover that. If
I'm in France and I need to get my teeth cleaned, that's covered too. They
even have direct billing relationships with many providers because they're
Cigna. Preventative is fully covered.
[https://www.cignaglobal.com](https://www.cignaglobal.com)

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philip1209
Hi - I'm a digital nomad. I use Geo-Blue insurance from Blue Cross. Their
system has been pretty easy and self-serve. They offer a similar plan with
comparable pricing. How is this different?

~~~
SRasch
One big difference is time-limit. If you go with their single voyage option,
it's max 6 months, and 12 months for the other one. While we offer an ongoing
monthly subscription-like service. Another big difference is that Geo-Blue
requires I believe that you have a primary health plan.

~~~
philip1209
Geo-Blue has options for people with or without primary insurance. We actually
just switched our company over to their more expensive plan that offers full
health insurance globally.

Wouldn't most people need some kind of primary health plan, regardless, for
standard healthcare visits?

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jdavis703
> The price is for ages 18-39 (other ages can buy though at higher prices.
> Sorry it’s the way this industry works).

No need to apologize. The young people get higher automobile insurance rates.

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BugsJustFindMe
Hi. I've traveled worldwide for many months/years at a time, so I'm directly
in your target market.

What makes your service better than this policy that I've used before?
[https://www.insuremytrip.com/travel-insurance-
providers/inte...](https://www.insuremytrip.com/travel-insurance-
providers/international-medical-group/patriot-international/#tab_plan-summary)

[edit] Or this policy, which looks like it might be the same policy that
you're providing? [https://www.insuremytrip.com/travel-insurance-
providers/hcc-...](https://www.insuremytrip.com/travel-insurance-
providers/hcc-medical-insurance/atlas-international/)

The price looks about the same (~$500/yr) for similar coverage options, and
I've used them before so I know that they did things like automatically email
me a copy of the letter declaring coverage terms needed for stay in the
Schengen Area (Btw, if you don't do that, you definitely should). Their
maximum policy length is a year but I know from experience that you can easily
renew for another year after expiry if you need longer.

[edit] I found your policy links, but I completely missed them at first
because of the tiny buried text. Can you make them bigger and not buried so
far down?

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charlescearl
I’m exploring digital nomading from the US. I take it that there are other
(perhaps more expensive ) providers that offer preventative care?

From stories online and experiences of others, it also seems that a lot of it
is about maintaining emotional health when away from home for a while. I
wonder if you’ve thought through providing access to counseling services, etc.
In other words, safety net in terms of well being?

~~~
SRasch
Yes there are country-specific ones that do at least, for expats, like Cigna
global.

Yes the second biggest problems nomads cited in our surveys was loneliness /
being disconnected from relationships when moving often. One thing we are
doing to address this now is to build a community, with social events for our
users. I think it sounds like an interesting idea to consider adding
counseling services though. We haven't considered it before, but we will take
a look at it. Thanks.

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cpursley
Interesting, I'll likely sign up for this. Are there any blacklisted
countries? I'm an American currently living in Russia and do a good bit of
traveling/working.

~~~
LOLTITTIES
Great to hear! I'm Sarah (co-founder / CTO) : We're unable to offer coverage
in Iran and North Korea.

ETA: We definitely cover your situation, unless you head to those countries.

~~~
cpursley
Ok, great. Where can I view the list of providers? It's mentioned in the FAQ
but I was not able to see it on the homepage.

~~~
namelost
FWIW you can see the list of providers if you sign up (you have to put in your
details but don't have to pay any money). Click the hamburger button, then
"find hospital or doctor".

To OP: please add an easy way to see providers from the home page without
having to enter personal information!

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aloukissas
Sadly, this seems to suffer from the main thing that domestic US health
insurance does: if you have pre-existing conditions, you're screwed.

~~~
ibeckermayer
That's just how insurance stays solvent. Imagine if car companies sold you car
insurance _after_ you'd gotten in a car crash. It wouldn't really be insurance
then, would it? You'd just be paying them to pay your bills, which isn't
exactly a sustainable business model.

~~~
aloukissas
Not really the case - insurance mainly works when the majority of the people
paying the premiums (and rarely using the service) covers the costs of the few
that need expensive services. In the car analogy: the law mandates that you
carry auto liability insurance, which ends up lowering the costs for everyone.
This is what the ACA had at its core.

~~~
kenneth
That only works when it's mandatory for everyone.

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therealmarv
This sounds so promising. Reminding me of the new fintechs which are competing
against classic banks (e.g. Revolut). I want something like a perfect app and
simple fees for insurance!

~~~
HKjellby
Thanks. We are just getting started, and an app version is coming later this
year.

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lima
I get the metaphor, but these birds look so ugly.

~~~
SeanJM
Ugly in "style" or ugly in appearance?

~~~
scribu
It might be the animation style, though it's not that different from Bojack
Horseman, which I like a lot.

Maybe it's the pose of the characters. For example, the hand wave of the white
ladybird feels unnatural, somehow.

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Gys
My general thoughts on choosing an insurance:

1) Take a high deductable (because low means you will pay it every year any
way ;-)

2) Take a very high maximum. Because that is what you have an insurance for.
If something really goes wrong, you need as much support as possible, for as
long as possible.

I have a rather expensive insurance with 1000 / yr deductable and 1 million
max (or more, depending on circumstances). I never claimed anything in the 8
years that I have it and I hope it will stay that way for a long time to come.

~~~
SRasch
This is I suppose a quite wise choice given the preferences you have. Our
insurance has lower deductible than yours ($250 for coverage period (not per
instance), and lower max limit ($250k). We went with this after asking digital
nomads what they would choose among a series of options. We have priced and
might need to consider adding a higher max limit option though, thanks for
letting us know.

~~~
Gys
250 is still a figure low enough to feel compelled to keep track of all
expenses in a year. And the next step is trying to get a return for that
effort by declaring anything higher ;-)

I never reach 1000 / yr so I do not even think of keeping track.

But for an insurance company the human emotion part ('my insurance should
cover everything') is probably where the first profit is ?

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OoTheNigerian
This is madness (in a good way ;))

If you're in a neutral country where will you be evacuated to?

Say for instance, I'm from Syria and I get ill in Venezuela, where will I have
the option of being treated?

~~~
HKjellby
This is a good question. If you need to be evacuated to get medical treatment
you will be evacuated to the nearest hospital that is qualified to provide the
medically necessary treatment.

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baybal2
How it works for people who are residing abroad for extended period of time.

From your exceptions list:

16\. Routine medical examinations,

This surely can't compare to a full service mid-tier insurance of equal price.
Other expat insurance do cover 2-3 checkups a year with conditions on checkup
venue and price.

36\. products that can be purchased without a doctor's prescription.

When a necessary off the counter drug is being prescribed by a doctor, will it
not be covered? How this works in countries where you can buy pretty much
anything off the counter, sans opiates?

41\. Charges exceeding usual, reasonable and customary.

Specific limits? Especially want to know it for countries like China where
where the difference in between public hospital - basic private clinic - and
in a hospital that is up to international standards is like 8-10 times

More specific language for hospital stay and follow-up is needed. Say you
broke a leg. You got released from hospital, but have to come for follow ups,
remove the cast and sutures. Both did cost like $100 to me in Shanghai with
150 for the price of visit itself, which is more than I would've paid in
Canada. Will follow ups be subject to outpatient visit limits?

My feel is that this more of an extended travel insurance, rather than a
dedicated expat insurance that will allow for: a. you to remain in the country
if you get in a moderately serious medical situation (on a level of
appendectomy, complicated fracture treatment) and cover follow up care, b.
cover your regular medical expenses

------
OkGoDoIt
Interesting concept. It might be good to have some info on how this works in
different countries, especially countries where people tend to have medical
expenses covered without buying private insurance. What am I actually getting
in a specific country vs not having insurance, for example?

No preventative coverage seems nonsensical. Basically all of the value I get
out of my insurance is for my annual physical and full lab screens. I find it
frustrating that an innovative new business model for insurance doesn't focus
more on preventing high medical costs rather than simply helping with costs
after it's too late.

Reading your full safety-wing-specimen-policy-0118.pdf, there's a bunch of
random bold words. Seems most pronouns and many other words are bolded and I
can't figure out why. It makes the document visually busy and hard to read. I
would fix that unless there's some legal reason you have to do it that way.

The lost checked luggage coverage excludes literally everything of value I
might have in my luggage except clothing. Feels like a scam honestly.

Congrats on launching and props for trying to innovate in the world's
shittiest industry, but I don't think I'd sign up for this and I'm exactly
your target market.

~~~
SRasch
> No preventative coverage seems nonsensical.

I understand where you're coming from, but consider this: for things you know
you are going to do, a subscription is the right product - not an insurance.
Insurance is better for unforseen large costs, instead of predictable small
costs. And we are in fact planning to add a global primary care subscription
to address that. In the Nordic countries where we're from, most of healthcare
is delivered (by the government) in something closer to a subscription than
insurance.

> random bold words

I agree with this being unnecessary formatting, we will look into and fix
this.

> lost checked luggage coverage excludes literally everything of value

It is true that our lost checked luggage coverage has too many exclusions and
is not good enough. This is something we are working on improving, and will
release and add-on that fixes it, and give people the option of a genuine
stuff-insurance.

We'll work on getting this better, would appreciate if you have time for a
call with us at one point. Would really appreciate getting feedback on how we
can not just remove the bad, but also maybe add some good.

(If you want to, in addition to helping us build something useful, we can like
throw in a $25 airbnb gift card, my email is sondre@safetywing.com)

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stephth
Interesting, best of luck! What are your closest competitors? And do you
intend to provide other tiers for above 39, or are “digital nomads” above that
age too few?

~~~
SRasch
Thanks! For digital nomads the biggest option today is Worldnomads. Coverage
is comparable. Main differences is that they are 2-3x more expensive, don't
have subscription-option and don't offer home-country coverage (the one we
have is 30 days for every 3 months).

Yes we do intend to add more products, next one is to complete a global health
insurance that includes primary care. We currentl offer 40-49, 50-59 and 60-69
as well, but at higher price points. Most of our users are in the 18-39 age-
range, so this was the segment we tailored it to.

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mahesh_rm
Great to see alternatives in the space. What is considered as "your home
country"? I am a European, resident in a South American country. This implies
that my Health Insurance System in my European Country does not cover me. Will
SafetyWing still cover me in the South American Country I am currently
residing in?

~~~
LOLTITTIES
I'm Sarah, co-founder/CTO: Your principal residence, a place where you receive
regular mail. If it's ambiguous to you between two locations then both are
probably valid. Note that home country is where you won't have coverage other
than health for 30 days every 90 days.

~~~
mostlystatic
Hi Sarah, thanks for answering questions. It's great to see pricing upfront!

Could help me clarify my principal residence? I was actually looking to buy
insurance a few weeks back, but not knowing the answer to this questions
stopped me and I didn't hear back from the insurance company when I asked
them.

"Your principal residence where you receive regular mail"

I used to live in country A, where I have a forwarding address for most of my
mail. But I don't live or have health insurance there.

I'm currently in country B but will leave soon and travel to various other
countries. I want to buy health insurance for after leaving country B.

What should be my principal residence?

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gupir
Why is it targeting digital nomads? I know they are underserved in this area
(and many others), but I would trust more a normal insurance, with a strong
foot in my country, but offers an extended plan to digital nomad.

Off-topic: Would you mind to share who made the illustrations of your website?
I really love it!

~~~
SeanJM
It was meeeeee (the guy who illustrated it)

~~~
gupir
Congratulations Sean! beautiful drawings

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spodek
Off topic, but your research may help answer a question I posed on HN a month
ago
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16348676](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16348676):

> The "digital nomads" I know fly more than anyone I know. The discounts they
> find make them beneficiaries of our not accounting for externalities of the
> pollution from flying.

> Does anyone know the carbon footprint or pollution levels their lifestyle
> causes? My intuition may be off, but they would seem high.

Does your research enable you to answer better than others?

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cko
This is great. I just flew out of the States and wished I saw this option.
Currently bought IMG patriot travel insurance. Cheaper than world nomads but
not for the adventurous.

~~~
SRasch
Cool, thanks. Well, next time! Would be cool if you find something specific we
can avoid/improve if you do end up having to use it.

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tadruj
I love the design and character of your web page.

I don't understand "Home country coverage" so maybe you could do some user
testing to come up with better explanation.

Maybe a comparison to other insurances like Alianz Global Insurance. I have
that and I'm not sure why yours would be better. I think it was about the same
price looking at yearly cost.

Again, great web site.

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pschon
I have to start giving away personal data before getting to what I hope is the
meat and potatoes of what you are offering. I don't think so.

~~~
SRasch
I very much agree with your sentiment. We have made efforts to put the price
for most users straight on the home page, for example. We also try to say all
that's included, and give a specimen of the actual policy document. But we can
improve this a lot in terms of figuring out what is the most relevant
information.

In order to get to the stage one can do an actual purchase, we do need a few
pieces of information though. We have tried minimising this, but we'll take a
look at how we can reduce it further. Any specific suggestions you would have
for what we should put before registration and after?

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BrazeBeefNoodle
Is there no way to find the pricing for over 39 without creating an account? I
don't see it in the faq.

~~~
SRasch
That is correct. You're right though, we should have this. We will add a
pricing table and get it up on the page next week.

~~~
BrazeBeefNoodle
You bothered to respond, but didn't give the info I was looking for and said
"I'll tell you next week."

Hmmm... makes sense that you're in the insurance business.

~~~
SRasch
Sorry my mistake, I actually just didn't catch that you wanted the rates. All
the age-brackets rates are: 18-39, $37. 40-49, $60. 50-59, $94. 60-69, $128.

~~~
BrazeBeefNoodle
Thanks! It looks like my insurance joke crashed.

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mvr123456
Signup doesn't actually work for this thing, just an error that shows a Justin
Bieber quote.

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keeyah
Is fertility treatment covered? Do you or any company you know cover IVF or
IUI?

