
Ask HN: What's actually in Coca Cola? - naskwo
Given how pretty much everyone on the planet drinks Coca Cola, I am surprised that, given the enormous budgets that are spent on research and prevention of serious illnesses, there is no clear and honest (and formally acknowledged) list of the ingredients of Coca Cola.<p>See:
https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Coca-Cola_formula<p>If you want to release a medical drug, you need to document - at molecular level - how the drug is built up.<p>In the Netherlands, where I live, people go to expensive supermarkets to buy ecologically sourced meat and vegetables because of a so called chain of trust that no weird ingredients and antibiotics (if meat) have been added to their food.<p>Can someone from the HN community tell me:<p>1) Why is Coca Cola allowed to sell their beverages (e.g. by the FDA) when there are &quot;secret ingredients&quot;?<p>2) Have any proper studies been done on the health effects of Coca Cola consumption (not just sugary carbonated drinks)? Do we know how large populations are affected?
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mseebach
A: there are no "secret ingredients" in Coca Cola, there are a secret mixture
of a certain secret subset of a set of well known, known to be safe,
ingredients. In the same way you know that there is nothing weird added to
your organic products, but also don't have documentation for the exact
molecular structure of the product (not to imply any comparison between these
products and Coca Cola).

B: Probably not, because there is no hypothesis that the particular mix of
known ingredients in Coca Cola should have adverse health effects separate
from those in other sugary, carbonated (add caffeinated) drinks.

~~~
ada1981
Then why don’t they need to disclose the subset? Who decides what the library
of safe ingredients are?

~~~
mseebach
For the same reason you don't need to have every single steak and every single
carrot analysed to a molecular level. After all, each individual steak or
carrot will be a little different from every other. People who know what
they're doing has found that mixtures of certain substances within certain
parameters are just inherently safe and there's no point in a lot of
histrionics around this.

> Who decides what the library of safe ingredients are?

The FDA, as well as their counterparts in practically every single country in
the world. This is not controversial.

~~~
ada1981
A steak or carrot is a distinct ingredient unit.

“Natural Flavors” is not.

Obscuring the base ingredient unit is something I’d prefer wasn’t allowed.

------
k9n
The Stepan_Company is one the only commercial entity in the US authorized by
the DEA to import coca leaves.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Company](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Company)

Apparently the cocaine-free leaves are sold to Coca-Cola. while the cocaine is
sold to Mallinckrodt (Pharma).

This seems pretty shady to me.. The most addicting and widely popular drink
that will and has always been the biggest is also the only soda that has
permission to put some kind of secret extract into their drinks..

I really wonder what quantity of this extract is in coca cola, and whether
this is for taste, or for the psychological effect like caffeine.

I'm not trying to say there's coke in coca cola, but it think it's funny that
while their brand has been marketed as 'Coca-Cola' for so long. Why do they
still give kids a can in their hand that they are going to drink out of..
literally with the words COKE on it. Why do they still put on the can?

~~~
kalleboo
That's the US, how about in other countries? For instance Arab and Asian
countries are extremely strict about anything that comes close to drugs,
there's no way Coca-Cola would risk even distant extracts in those places.

~~~
k9n
Afaik ALL the cola extracts/syrups/starters used by smaller and international
soda bottle plants, and chains like macdonals still get their concentrated
"Coca-Cola" branded syrups that include the extract from the US.

~~~
BuildTheRobots
I was under the impression Coke (like McDonalds) had a lot of regional
variance; eg they change the recipe depending on where they are.

~~~
Sevii
They change the source of the sugar based on tariffs and subsidies.

------
mattgibson
For comparison, the ingredients of OpenCola are probably similar:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCola_(drink)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCola_\(drink\))

------
nitwit005
> If you want to release a medical drug, you need to document - at molecular
> level - how the drug is built up.

Not exactly workable for foods. Any meat or plant contains every chemical that
made up what it was made from, plus every contaminant.

~~~
cies
I'd argue that we need to force producers to provide a means for customers to
know ALL willfully added substances and DNA and radiation treatment[1] and
stuff that mat leach from the packaging to otherwise natural products.

Herbicides, insecticides, wax coatings, preservatives, genetic modifications,
gamma/x-rays, DPAs from packaging.

Maybe it is all not harmful, and maybe it is...

My reasons for this:

* We have the right to know. * We cannot (and we do not, hence the organic label) trust our gov't to look out for us. They've succombed to food lobbies over and over. * It will scare people away from trashy foods, drinks and habits like cigarettes

[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_irradiation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_irradiation)

~~~
beaconstudios
> It will scare people away from trashy foods, drinks and habits like
> cigarettes

I don't think many people smoke or eat fast food nowadays because they're
unaware that it is unhealthy. You are attributing a great deal of rationality
to human beings when we do all sorts of unhealthy things for a wide range of
reasons.

------
avar

        > In the Netherlands, where I live[...] Why is Coca Cola allowed
        > to sell their beverages (e.g. by the FDA) when there are "secret
        > ingredients"
    

It seems like you're implying that because Coca-Cola is an American product
they can get away with this, but if it were manufactured in The Netherlands or
the EU they couldn't.

That's not true. The exact same thing applies to food products manufactured or
sold in the EU. Food labels aren't required to exhaustively list everything
that goes into the product, or to publicly document the process by which the
product is made.

Edit: I know Coca-Cola is manufactured outside the US, but I don't know if
it's from scratch. I have a friend who used to work at the Coca-Cola plant in
Iceland, and all they did was mix sugar, water and some nondescript "goo" they
got shipped from abroad and carbonated it. So what went into the "goo" wasn't
local knowledge.

~~~
erric
I do find it interesting that in the Netherlands, and likely the EU, beer has
an ingredients list.

~~~
avar
Beer in The Netherlands just declares how much fat (thereof saturated),
carbohydrates (thereof sugars), protein and salt it contains.

That's exactly analogous to Coke. Basic nutritional information that doesn't
cover trace chemicals or the brewing process.

------
ropeadopepope
Nobody knows. Coca Cola lists most ingredients, but the secret sauce is listed
as "Natural Flavors". That's where all the heavy flavor science in conducted
and not just in Coca Cola. Most engineered foods in the US have "Natural
Flavors" listed. The FDA, in their infinite wisdom, has decided that any
number of artificial and engineered compounds qualify an "Natural Flavors" and
they don't have to be disclosed. Some people I've spoken to think this is a
result of lobbying from the major food manufacturers who want to make their
products more "addictive".

I love America and I think Europe is backwards in many, many ways. This isn't
one of those ways. I wish we had European-style food purity laws. The only way
to guarantee your food hasn't been messed with or "adulterated" or "enriched"
in some way is to skip the stores entirely and buy straight from a local
farmer.

~~~
Finch2193
I'm curious: in what ways is Europe more 'backward' than the states?

~~~
hood_syntax
Free speech is one example, through probably not for all european countries.
See Germany's defamation laws as one example.

------
pipio21
Today with chemical laboratory analysis you can get the ingredients of
anything. So what Coca Cola uses is not that secret. Your point one is not
valid.

The secret is making this product economically in enormous quantities. It is
about providers, contracts, supply warrantees, dealing with those that bottle
your concentrates, water supplies to mix your concentrates, and so on.

There are people that study illnesses data at least in Europe and USA, and
there is a clear relationship between sugary carbonated drinks in general and
lots of illnesses.

There is a clear relationship with diabetes an sugary drinks in particular.

In the past Coca Cola used Coca, and hence cocaine, but it does not anymore.

~~~
AndrewOMartin
But it still contains _an_ extract from the Coca leaf.

"Coke dropped cocaine from its recipe around 1900, but the secret formula
still calls for a cocaine-free coca extract produced at a Stepan Co. factory
in Maywood, N.J."

" Stepan buys about 100 metric tons of dried Peruvian coca leaves each year,
said Marco Castillo, spokesman for Peru’s state-owned National Coca Co."

[https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/apr/19/20040419-09...](https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/apr/19/20040419-093635-4754r/)

~~~
DanBC
Coke sell over 1.9 billion drinks _per day_ , so that 100 metric tons is
spread pretty thin.

[https://www.coca-cola.co.uk/faq/how-many-cans-of-coca-
cola-a...](https://www.coca-cola.co.uk/faq/how-many-cans-of-coca-cola-are-
sold-worldwide-in-a-day)

------
celticninja
there are no secret ingredients, the ingredients are listed on the can/bottle.
The secret is in the quantity of each and the manufacturing process, so you
know exactly what you are consuming.

~~~
benguild
Right, but what about "Artificial Flavors" and "Natural Flavors" ...?

~~~
maxk42
There is an approved list of ingredients at the FDA for what constitutes
"artificial flavors" and "natural flavors":

(a)(1) The term artificial flavor or artificial flavoring means any substance,
the function of which is to impart flavor, which is not derived from a spice,
fruit or fruit juice, vegetable or vegetable juice, edible yeast, herb, bark,
bud, root, leaf or similar plant material, meat, fish, poultry, eggs, dairy
products, or fermentation products thereof. Artificial flavor includes the
substances listed in 172.515(b) and 582.60 of this chapter except where these
are derived from natural sources.

(3) The term natural flavor or natural flavoring means the essential oil,
oleoresin, essence or extractive, protein hydrolysate, distillate, or any
product of roasting, heating or enzymolysis, which contains the flavoring
constituents derived from a spice, fruit or fruit juice, vegetable or
vegetable juice, edible yeast, herb, bark, bud, root, leaf or similar plant
material, meat, seafood, poultry, eggs, dairy products, or fermentation
products thereof, whose significant function in food is flavoring rather than
nutritional. Natural flavors, include the natural essence or extractives
obtained from plants listed in subpart A of part 582 of this chapter, and the
substances listed in 172.510 of this chapter.

From here:
[https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/cfr...](https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/cfrsearch.cfm?fr=501.22)

~~~
gregknicholson
Is Coca-Cola vegan?

~~~
lccarrasco
Yes

------
spodek
In college in the late 80s, amid a global movement to avoid doing business
with companies doing business with apartheid South Africa, I stopped buying
Coca-cola products.

Years later, Mandela became president and my conscience felt clear about
buying their products.

I thought, "I remember why I stopped drinking coke, but I don't remember why I
started in the first place." I couldn't think of a satisfying answer so never
restarted.

I don't think I've had a coke product since. Soon after I stopped drinking any
sodas, sweetened or not. I love delicious food, but nothing about soda
connects with either deliciousness or food in my mind.

I never started drinking bottled water either, for its environmental damage.

------
jacquesm
Coca Cola has started to disclose the caffeine content of their drinks since
about a decade.

Other than that there isn't much that is exciting in a glass of cola, the most
unhealthy part next to the caffeine would be the sugar (and artificial
sweeteners in 'light' products).

------
cromulent
The _This American Life_ episode mentioned in Wikipedia is worth a listen.

[https://www.thisamericanlife.org/427/original-
recipe](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/427/original-recipe)

------
ada1981
Is anyone offering insurance based on monitoring your grocery bill?

For example, people who choose to drink soda, alcohol, excess sugar, etc.
could be grouped together.

I do think there are some insurance providers for vegans, but that may just be
marketing.

------
grover_hartmann
I've started boycotting Coca-Cola after reading this:
[http://killercoke.org/](http://killercoke.org/) and I drink Pepsi now.

------
0x4f3759df
Too much sugar to drink, that's all you need to know

------
charlesism
Pretty sure the main ingredients are cinnamon, citric acid, caramel, caffeine,
and sugar.

------
Clobbersmith
Nice try, Pepsi.

~~~
kalleboo
Of course, the main ingredient is marketing.

In 1985, Coca-Cola research showed people actually preferred the flavor of
Pepsi, so they made a taste-tested Pepsi clone. It was launched as New Coke,
and despite people preferring New Coke in blind taste tests, they still wanted
to buy and drink Coca-Cola Classic. New Coke was a massive flop.

So even if Pepsi managed to make a perfect Coca-Cola recipe clone, they're
missing the main ingredient - their brand.

~~~
mercer
If I recall correctly, people liked the taste of Pepsi in small amounts, but
preferred Coca-Cola as a 'proper' beverage. Don't have a source at hand, so by
all means correct me if I'm wrong.

~~~
pedalpete
This was my understanding as well, Pepsi had a sweeter taste with a slight
citrus flavor. Comparatively, it tastes better on first sip, but for a can
sized serving, the less sweet taste was preferred.

------
perseusprime11
I can taste nutmeg in coca cola.

~~~
nailer
Cola recipes normally include nutmeg, so yes.

------
ponderatul
"pretty much everyone on the planet drinks Coca Cola" should be a good
indicator not to drink it.

I think we as humans are worth enough to know what goes in our drinks and in
how much quantity. If not, then the company is not worth the trouble. I would
encourage anyone to have the same heuristic.

~~~
dsr_
Literally everyone on the planet drinks water, so that's not a useful
indicator of avoidance.

