
iPhone 11 Pro Emits Twice the Amount of Radiation for Safe Use - neya
https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/a30857609/iphone-11-pro-radiation/
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upofadown
> The FCC sets the test at five millimeters from the body, which may seem
> close, but a cell phone in your pocket is just two millimeters from your
> skin.

So they did the test wrong? Then their results have nothing to do with
exceeding the _allowed_ radiation. Instead this is an unsupported claim that
the test parameters should be different.

~~~
SigmundA
Thats the way I read it too, change 5 millimeters to 2 millimeters following
inverse-square law and no surprise you get a higher absorption rate. Thats not
"emitting twice the allowed radiation", thats just being closer to the source.

Still no proof this extremely low amount of power causes any biological
issues. Its literally the same power level as an LED flashing next to your
head, its just in the RF range vs visual and non-ionizing unlike say going out
in the sun which is a 1000 watt per square meter radiator emitting UV
radiation know to cause cancer.

~~~
adsfqwop
It's not necessarily a good argument to compare to sunlight, because we also
have take into account biological adaptation.

Sunlight has existed for millions of years on this planet, and therefore all
biological life has had time to adapt to it.

Human skin for example, has both a protection mechanism, in the form of
melanin, and a utilizing mechanism, in the form of vitamin D production.

So these are the two things you would normally expect to happen with
adaptation: protection and utilization.

But when it comes to RF radiation, especially in the microwave range, the
natural background flux is not 1000W/m2, but 10^-18 W/m2 (!), at 1 GHz.

The current safety limits again are set at around 10W/m2 @ 1Ghz. That's a
difference to the background of over a quintillion times (18 zeroes). See
image here for reference:

[https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dt2NMoJU4AE2oYY.jpg](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dt2NMoJU4AE2oYY.jpg)

Because the background has been 10^-18 W/m2, we can consider it basically
nonexistant, and therefore there has been no adaptation to these frequencies,
no utilization, and no protection.

But there is another difference to natural sunlight also, and that is that
man-made RF is not continuous, but pulsed.

Consider what would happen, if the sun suddenly started pulsing on and off a
few thousand times per second.

These are some of the factors that need to be taken into consideration. It is
not as simple as just saying that pulsed microwaves are just like sunlight.

From both a physics standpoint, but especially from a biological standpoint,
they are not the same, and that is where the problems come from.

~~~
SigmundA
I think its a very good argument to compare because its based on our
understanding of physics.

Even with all our adaptations we still get cancer from sunlight on a regular
basis.

It is easy to understand why, UVB light is near ionizing has enough energy to
damage human DNA causing cancer.

Below UVB there is not enough energy to cause DNA damage through a known
mechanism except heating.

Heating directly related to power absorption, a 1500 watt microwave will cook
you a 300 milliwatt pulsing microwave transmitter will not heat your flesh
enough to cause any damage.

We have a pretty good grip on how various frequencies of radiation affect
human biology and cell phone emissions are orders of magnitude lower power
that whats needed to heat flesh enough to cause damage you literally get more
heat directly from the phone being warm than RF absorption.

I don't propose we stop looking for any possible biological activity due to
microwave (or any other spectrum) but repeated test have not shown this to be
the case and to do so would mean there is some new mechanism for this to do
so.

If you are scared of 300 milliwatt RF emissions I would be more scared of
multi-watt LED light emissions due to higher energy levels (terahertz vs
gigahertz).

~~~
adsfqwop
You do understand that the ionizing argument is a logical fallacy?

If I say A is dangerous because of X, it is a logical fallacy to say B is safe
because lack of X.

Lack of X is not an argument for safety, therefore you cannot use lack of
ionization as any form of proof for safety. The only thing you can say, is
that it does not ionize. It does not say anything else related to any other
biological effects.

With regards to the mechanism and the observed effects in laboratory and
animal experiments, here is the proposed pathophysiology:

[https://i.imgur.com/xNzDsPo.png](https://i.imgur.com/xNzDsPo.png)

If you want the TL;DR, the summary is: there are other ways to cause cellular
and genetic disruption, than just ionizing radiation or by heating effects.

And yes, we have a good grip on the science: here is a graph of peer-reviewed
scientific publications, showing biological effects much below current
exposure limits:

[https://i.imgur.com/14uxRru.png](https://i.imgur.com/14uxRru.png)

The problem is, this science has not been incorporated into the current safety
standards. This science shows, there exists non-thermal non-ionizing
mechanisms of harm, that have not been taken into consideration.

But if you trust the over 20 year old FCC guidelines, then of course you will
think everything is fine.

It is not a question of being scared, it is a question of looking at the
science, and updating our understanding, and then look at the technology with
this new understanding, so that we can make it safer.

~~~
SigmundA
It is most definitely not a fallacy to argue that EM radiation below a certain
energy threshold has no proven mechanism other than heating to damage DNA.

Maybe we haven't found it yet, and we should always keep looking, but it is no
more likely to be caused by microwave or visible light at this point.

The images you posted are to a paper done by Martin L. Pall who is a known
scaremonger for EMF and has been met with skepticism [1]. It certainly is not
proof of microwave being dangerous to the human body at power levels emitted
by cellphones, its a theory that has yet do be proven of a possible pathway
that is non thermal.

1\.
[https://betweenrockandhardplace.wordpress.com/2020/01/15/int...](https://betweenrockandhardplace.wordpress.com/2020/01/15/interesting-
tabt-trad-blog-from-denmark-on-palls-calcium-hypothesis/)

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stefgodjibayo
Maybe a sensationalist title because it's not just the iPhone 11 pro:

> The Tribune found that the iPhone 7 similarly had double the rate of
> radiation that the FCC deems safe for use and other smartphone makers, like
> Samsung and Motorola, also exceeded the safety threshold.

The article talks about how the FCC put limits in place before we all used
cell phones, but it seems that the _double radiation_ thing is not at all
times, rather when the phone is under some sort of heavy load (guessing:
searching for service or during a call?). Either way, it seems it's an issue:

> …World Health Organization has classified RF radiation as a possible
> carcinogenic to humans since 2011 and the National Institutes of Health has
> found "clear evidence" in animal studies that RF radiation causes cancer.

Although no direct links are given to the "clear evidence," other than effects
on rodents

~~~
hatenberg
Eh. The title is factual. Nothing sensationalist about it.

~~~
Engineering-MD
Sure but the implied message (that this is exceptional for the iPhone 11) is
not.

Another example would be “USA struggling to cure millions from cancer”.
Accurate, but implies that this is different from the status quo.

~~~
iso1210
It's a key

Lets imagine I ran a national news network, and I wanted to systematically
portray people with blue eyes as criminals.

I would downplay and not report crimes of people with brown eyes, but I would
report every crime someone with blue eyes commits, and ensure that "Blue eyes"
is in the headline.

I would then report on the victims and report they had brown eyes. If the
victim didn't have brown eyes, I wouldn't mention the colour, and let people
make their own assumptions.

This would all be accurate, but it would also be massively fake.

Of course that would be crazy, yet that's exactly what happens every day in
the media.

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tpmx
> Instead, if you want to reduce your exposure to radiation, hold your cell
> phone away from your body (especially your head) by using the speakerphone
> setting while talking

So those impolite annoying people who are using the speaker mode in public
settings are actually behaving smarter than we give them credit for.

Maybe if we praise them for behaving safely they'll stop?

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sschueller
I am afraid in a few years this will become a scandal like "dieselgate". An
industry self certifying because government doesn't have enough resources to
do it.

~~~
adsfqwop
Related: FCC is being sued because of their failure to update the safety
standards to take into account the latest research.

[https://lawandcrime.com/administrative-law/scientists-sue-
fc...](https://lawandcrime.com/administrative-law/scientists-sue-fcc-for-
dismissing-claims-that-cell-phone-radiation-causes-cancer/)

------
BossingAround
I've been thinking about this. I own a Galaxy S10, and if I call for more than
like 30 minutes at a time, I start to get a migraine. I've "solved" the issue
by using the wired headset.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of phones had somewhat dangerous levels of
radiation.

~~~
LatteLazy
Or maybe just physically pressing something to the side of your skull causes
migraines after 30min?

~~~
BossingAround
By that logic, I couldn't wear headphones (and I wear headphones pretty much
4-8+h a day). So I don't think that's the problem.

~~~
LatteLazy
I don't think headphones are pressed to the head with anything like the force
phones tend to be. Also, headphones are soft.

It's also worth considering: Normally after 10 minutes on the phone, my
forearm hurts from gripping and pressing the handset to my head. Is that
radiation too? :)

But what do I know? Maybe try it? Next time you have to make a long call,
switch to speaker but put a small pillow between your head and the phone. Or
put it in airplane mode and listen to a pod cast for 30 minutes as if it were
a phone call.

Respectfully, if I thought I was getting enough radiation to give me a
headache, I'd assume I was way way over the level that was harmful. You really
should check this...

~~~
kingludite
The effect is different for different people.

