
Spotify’s Podcast Aggregation Play - denzil_correa
https://stratechery.com/2019/spotifys-podcast-aggregation-play/
======
icebraining
By the way, for those who don't know the company mentioned (Gimlet), it's an
interesting case for HN, because the founder recorded a podcast about its
creation right from the start, avoiding the biases that come with hindsight:

[https://www.gimletmedia.com/startup/1-how-not-to-pitch-a-
bil...](https://www.gimletmedia.com/startup/1-how-not-to-pitch-a-
billionaire#episode-player)

~~~
radicalbyte
It's such a shame; I've been following Alex's work for years now. It was his
podcasts (specifically Planet Money) which got me into podcasts in the first
place. Now it looks like he sold up to let his company die at Spotify.

I hope that we'll hear the full story eventually and, of course, that this
will prove to be a move for the better.

~~~
jammygit
Maybe a future season of 'Startup' will cover it

~~~
pflats
I bet dollars to dimes that they will cover it in a podcast and that podcast
will be exclusive to Spotify.

I would predict they keep doing 'Startup' as-is with its focus on other
companies, and launch 'Acquisition' (or whatever) as an exclusive with
excerpts of it in 'Startup'.

~~~
e40
Some of their podcasts are already exclusive to Spotify. Crimetown season 2,
for example.

------
icebraining
Sigh. I'm already conflicted about Audible, now podcasts will be locked down
too?

It's curious this article doesn't even mention iTunes; as far as I know,
that's the undisputed champion of podcast discovery and distribution, isn't
it? Can podcasts afford to leave it to become Spotify exclusives?

~~~
criley2
How can it be the undisputed champion of podcast delivery and only available
on about ~5% of computers and ~40% of smartphones? The average smartphone user
and desktop user can't even access Apple discovery features!

I think you might be an Apple user who doesn't realize that the majority of
all device users don't own Apple devices, so for Apple to be the champion of
anything (except profit per user) is a bit of a mathematical impossibility.

~~~
badmelee
I would imagine the parent comment is in regards to how people listen to
podcasts. According to Anchor, Apple Podcasts boasts a 52% market share of how
people listen to podcasts - [https://medium.com/anchor/how-people-listen-to-
podcasts-ba0c...](https://medium.com/anchor/how-people-listen-to-podcasts-
ba0c57a5f952).

The power and reach of the default install of Apple Podcasts is hard to
ignore. (which I don't believe most Android phones have).

------
lbacaj
Spotify's acquisition spree in this space is not surprising and Gimlet is just
the beginning. In case people missed it they also recently announced that they
are setting aside another 500 million for this year for more acquisitions.

It is my opinion that Audio is going to be a huge opportunity for lots of
Startups, I feel it is underserved. I really do feel that the AirPods have
been game changing in making audio consumption far easier. In some ways they
are the new iPod for Apple, they cost about the same as the iPod used to and
I’m almost certain at some point Apple will add storage to them and we will be
able to take them with us without our phone. I believe they are expected to
sell 75 million units through this year, those are no small numbers and
presents a huge opportunity for audio startups.

The other thing about Audio is that there is so much more potential than just
music or podcast. Since Audio is obviously one of those things you can consume
on the go, while doing other things, like exercising or commuting and you can
consume it for so much more than just entertainment but to stay informed or to
learn. In some ways audio is far superior to video in our modern fast paced
world.

As a little self promotion, this is exactly why I decided to create an app
that uses some open machine learning models to read articles to you, I believe
folks on the go will benefit immensely by staying informed and learning new
things. You can check it out at [https://articulu.com](https://articulu.com)

------
criddell
I feel like the golden age of podcasts is coming to a close.

~~~
JohnJamesRambo
The ads just keep coming and coming...

Sometimes I think top 40 radio has less ads than the Techmeme Ride Home. I
haven't crunched any numbers to see.

~~~
starik36
If you are listening in the car, just turn the dial twice and you are past
commercials.

------
sithadmin
The business case that's laid out here makes sense, but I really wish they'd
stick to one thing (streaming music) and do it really well (which they
currently do).

Plex is pulling the same approach with podcasts and 'web TV', and it's
annoying the hell out of users that would rather see increased time and money
invested in core features. I don't want to see the same happen to Spotify.

~~~
slipgate55
I genuinely don't understand how to use Plex for its primary purpose anymore.
The UI is so irritating that I just threw it off my server.

Spotify doesn't seem to suffer from any similar issues. It appears I can reach
the music I'd like in the same number of straight-forward clicks as before
podcast-related features were introduced.

~~~
fuzz4lyfe
I really enjoy the improvements to Plex, I've been able to put all of my media
consumption into one app (I even have youtube videos automatically downloading
and added to my collection) so I can pick up where I left off on any of my
devices.

------
Slippery_John
> More than 10 years ago we founded Spotify to give consumers something they
> couldn’t get

And now they're planning to take away something consumers have. I have little
doubt that they'll succeed in turning what is currently an open ecosystem
where users have choice into a closed system of fiefdoms like video streaming
is increasingly becoming.

Spotify is a _bad_ podcast app. In no particular order:

* There seems to be an inconsistent restriction in the number of episodes you can see. Daily podcasts suffer particularly from this.

* I need three gestures just to get to podcasts on their app, and then more to start digging into genres.

* Available podcasts seem to be curated - the selection is very small.

* There are no ratings

* There is no way to see what's trending, or it is non-obvious

* Downloading is locked behind a paywall, which is a big deal for a medium where individual episodes can be several hundred megabytes

* Subscribing is an afterthought. Three interactions to see what's new in a podcast I'm subscribed to.

In summation: terrible discoverability, slim selection, cumbersome ui, and
basic features missing or locked behind a paywall.

I, for one, do not welcome our new overlords.

~~~
radicalbyte
> Spotify is a bad podcast app.

Over the last 18 months it has become a bad music app too. Two years ago it
only took one or two clicks to load your music and your downloaded music
remained.. downloaded.

Nowadays you have to fight through several screens of "promotional feeds" to
get to your playlists which will then be half empty because the downloaded
songs have been removed.

They're clearly being driven as a new music marketing service by their record
company overlords.

~~~
wilkystyle
The latest UI update on iOS moved the "Repeat" button to behind another menu,
necessitating an additional tap. As someone who frequently toggles repeat, I
now have an additional screen to tap through.

~~~
kentosi
Thank you. I just noticed this too. I wonder what the UX reasoning for this
was?

I just assumed that they had some metric indicating that not many people used
it...

------
jeena
I personally hate ads with such a passion that I subconsciously stopped to
listen to US podcasts more and more and mostly found European podcasts which
offer to pay/donate instead.

And especially German podcasts found a way to send them money without paying
fees like patreon or paypal does so that even small amounts like $1 make
sense.

~~~
voltagex_
>German podcasts found a way to send them money without paying fees like
patreon or paypal does?

GiroPay?

~~~
jeena
I'm not sure if it's called like that but this:

> BIC + IBAN is often the cheapest way to transfer money internationally and
> is now free of charge* in much of Europe under EU/EEA directive 2560/2001\.
> BIC + IBAN international bank transfers are faster, more efficient, and low-
> cost as they are sent directly through the SWIFT interbank network without
> using intermediary banks (who deduct charges or fees for their service).
> IBAN will be progressively introduced in most OECD countries to allow
> Straight Through Processing of cross border payments.

from [https://www.auctionfeecalculator.com/iban-
transfers.html](https://www.auctionfeecalculator.com/iban-transfers.html)

------
chiefalchemist
I would think the play is to establish a second entity that handles the
aggregation and "distribution". More or less the music model but for podcasts.

Of course that runs the risk of creating (podcast-centric) competitors to
Spotify. But such a counter intuitive strategy never hurt Amazon.

~~~
AlexandrB
This just sounds like inserting more middle men between podcast creators and
listeners. No thank you. I want my money going to creators, not SV VC
companies.

------
vincentmarle
Wondering why Spotify isn’t pulling a “Netflix”: signing up their own artists
and cut out the music industry completely. You used to sign with an
established music label because of their distribution dominance. But if
Spotify is capturing a growing piece of that distribution...

~~~
dkrich
He explains this in the article. For the most popular musical acts streaming
isn’t how they make money. It’s simply a means to advertise their music so
they can make money by touring. If that’s the case no popular musical act is
going to lock their music down to a single provider because the goal is
maximum possible distribution. The bet Spotify is making with podcasts is that
podcast creators will trade maximum distribution for ease of publication and a
“large enough” base and Spotify will capture the long tail of podcasts.

Personally I’m highly skeptical this is going to move the needle on revenue
for them in the long run and more than anything feels more like a desperation
play than a smart business strategy.

Going back just one year the main bull case made by Scott Galloway was that
Spotify would eventually own video on mobile. Clearly that’s not going to
happen now that it’s apparent that space is going to be carved up between
YouTube and Facebook. I think Spotify is eventually going to be acquired by a
much larger company making a push into services after its market cap has been
cut significantly.

------
willj
I haven't seen this mentioned in the article or comments here, but an article
I read (can't find it right now) mentioned that advertisers prefer podcasts on
Spotify to Apple, because Spotify can give them data on how many users are
actually listening to the ads vs skipping. Spotify also doesn't have a 1.5x
speed (and up). The next move, I bet, will be to entice podcast creators to
have exclusive deals with Spotify, for which they will get somewhat higher
compensation from advertisers.

~~~
mynegation
> Spotify also doesn't have a 1.5x speed (and up)

This is old news. They have up to 3x now in my iOS app.

~~~
willj
Oh wow! I use the web app a lot, so it makes sense I've not seen it, since
their web app is a dumbed down version.

------
admn2
I really hope Spotify uses this as a reason to re-work their podcasting
section. I think Apple's podcast app does a great job with discovery, and find
all the podcasts I'm interested in on Spotify to get totally lost in the
shuffle. They also don't really seem to have any sort of meaningful feed,
which is how I choose a podcast before any long walk.

------
jameane
Streaming services have to create content these days to lock in users. Users
won't switch if the stuff the watch (or listen to) is only available with a
specific player.

Just like TV/movies Podcasts won't remain 100% channel agnostic.

------
jshap70
this link in the article was cooler than the article itself:
[https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-database/](https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-
database/) (be sure to change the metric to inflation adjusted revenue)

------
glenntzke
Recode has an interview with Gimlet's cofounders about the acquisition:
[https://open.spotify.com/episode/1q7w7rQYjh3yFgey4Gz2OO](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1q7w7rQYjh3yFgey4Gz2OO)

~~~
scarface74
Let’s not hasten the locking down of podcasts by using a Spotify link.

[https://www.recode.net/2019/2/7/18214941/alex-blumberg-
matt-...](https://www.recode.net/2019/2/7/18214941/alex-blumberg-matt-lieber-
gimlet-spotify-deal-acquisition-peter-kafka-media-podcast-audio-interview)

~~~
cco
Your, and the parent comment, perfectly encapsulate what is going wrong on the
macro level with the specific example at hand. Your link is the system as it
works today, a medium agnostic hyperlink that allows you to start listening on
any device with a browser and a speaker. The parent offers a locked door to a
meticulously tracked and monetized walled garden.

~~~
scarface74
Exactly.

This is the world I want to live in:

 _You can listen to Recode Media wherever you get your podcasts — including
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Pocket Casts, and Overcast._

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EamonnMR
You can download all of the Reply All from MP3 links on the RSS feed:
[https://feeds.megaphone.fm/replyall](https://feeds.megaphone.fm/replyall)

Worth grabbing in case they go away.

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JustSomeNobody
Ahh... the new media conglomerates. Just what we all need.

------
vesak
Yet another reason not to use Spotify. Their IPO was a huge red flag, of
course.

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barbecue_sauce
Earwolf up next?

