
South Korean students flock to Japan - Ultramanoid
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/05/13/national/south-korean-students-flock-japan-birthrate-sinks-unemployment-climbs/
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awl130
This article is laughably wrong (probably a puff piece to entice Korean
students to work in Japan). The truth is exactly the opposite: there are fewer
Koreans in Japan every year (as measured by foreign residents in Japan -- this
includes work and student visas). The fastest rising immigrants to Japan from
2015-2018 are in descending order[1]:

Vietnam Cambodia Uzbekistan Myanmar Sri Lanka

South Korea comes in dead last, having DECLINED by 10% during the same period.

The truth is that as soon as Korea became a developed country, having joined
the OECD in the 90s, immigration to Japan slowed to a trickle, precisely for
the historical reasons that you might suspect.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan#Foreign_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan#Foreign_residents)

~~~
rchaud
It did sound like a puff piece, since the only company that was even mentioned
by name was a recruiting/staffing agency.

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nemonemo
South Korean here. My anecdata: some of my friends went to Japan for advanced
degrees. Most of them came back within a couple of years after their study.

10x or more people around me went to US. The majority of them are still in the
country after a few years.

Such tendency was remarkable to me, given the difficulty of learning English
and relative ease of learning Japanese by Koreans.

There is one thing I can't understand from the article: it says a low birth
rate as a reason of an increase in migration. Why would a low birth rate lead
to more migration? I can understand the unemployment rate as a reason, and SK
surely has a serious problem of low birth rate.. but that's for new babies...

~~~
umanwizard
> given the difficulty of learning English and relative ease of learning
> Japanese by Koreans

This surprises me a bit (I believe you; I am just surprised.)

Why do Koreans think learning Japanese is easier than learning English?

~~~
nemonemo
Syntax-wise, Koreans and Japanese are very close. The sound systems are also
close (e.g. no p/f v/b distinction). Kanji and Hanja are just Japanese/Korean
versions of Chinese. Some words are shared and some nursery rhymes have the
same melody. They even memorize the multiplication table with the same melody.
In many ways, their languages and cultures have evolved with proximity for a
long time, like thousands of years.

English and Korean are just two languages that would have almost no way of
influencing each other directly for a long long time. They evolved
independently, and once one is familiar with one language system, learning the
other is just... painfully difficult in my experience.

If you see grammar errors in my comment, a Japanese person would very likely
show similar mistakes in their English writings.

~~~
kaesar14
Interestingly enough, I feel that your grammar is pretty much spot on perfect,
at least from this excerpt. It's the cadence and rhythm of the way you write
and format your sentences that subtly suggest you're not a native English
speaker.

Maybe the thing that most sticks out to me is saying "English writings." I
don't think a native speaker would say writings, just "in their English", or
perhaps "In their written English."

Your English is fantastic, this is me simply musing on what you're suggesting.

~~~
nemonemo
Thank you, you made my day. I spent way too much time reading commets in HN,
and that effort paid off. :)

~~~
kaesar14
Of course! Coming from someone who's tried (and failed) to learn a bit of
Mandarin, even the spoken language was quite tough. Chinese/Japanese/Korean ->
English/Romance languages is quite a tough lingual gap to bridge, and you
should be proud of yourself for achieving fluency!

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winningcontinue
Read the story but they're very short on the data. cited a job fair in Nagoya
which had 40 Koreans. Then a Korean job search firm that placed the most
people to work in Japan out of any country. Is it just me or is the article
short on enough evidence to make this a piece?

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thaumasiotes
I don't get the "as birthrate sinks and unemployment climbs". It's not like
Japan is doing well there.

And Japan is infamous for its incredibly negative attitude towards Koreans...

~~~
baolongtrann
Have to admit I am clueless about the history between these two. Why don't
they like each other?

~~~
theaustinseven
Japan invaded the Korean peninsula as well as a sizeable portion of China and
enacted horribly cruel war crimes against the citizens of those places. I
won't get into details, but this comment would be akin to asking "What's the
history between the Germans and Jews? Why don't they like each other?". The
primary difference being that Germany had a reckoning with the history of what
happened during that time, while the Japanese Government has mostly denied
that any of its war crimes even happened which never allowed tensions to drop
as much as they may have in Europe.

~~~
jpatokal
Actually, Japan has apologized repeatedly:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan)

However, Japan has more than its fair share of far-right fruitcakes who deny
everything, and in both Korea and China politicians have found Japan to be a
convenient whipping boy whenever they need a distraction from domestic
problems.

~~~
sasaf5
Japan demands the issue to be "settled" or "forgotten" after mulling quick
apologies. Imagine Germany demanding that the Holocaust be forgotten.

~~~
jpatokal
Japan and South Korea signed an agreement in 1965 that was supposed to settle
all financial claims.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_Basic_Relations_betw...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_Basic_Relations_between_Japan_and_the_Republic_of_Korea)

~~~
sasaf5
This agreement is about property claims, not about war crimes against
civilians.

~~~
jpatokal
The agreement is about "property _and_ claims" between the two states. Of
course, individuals can and have sued various Japanese entities, some
successfully.

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distantaidenn
According to some sources (Bloomberg) South Korea is currently the most
innovative country in the world, and having spent significant time there, I
wholeheartedly agree.

Despite the mythos surrounding Japan espoused by some ill-informed westerners,
while it is a beautiful country, there is no benefit in moving from Korea to
Japan. Japan, while it's my current home, is well past its heyday.

This isn't to say it won't return, but the current climate speaks otherwise.

This is a pure fluff piece.

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hardmaru
“They have experienced military service and are disciplined,” said an official
at a manufacturer in Aichi Prefecture. “They are good to work with, because
they respect their superiors and are diligent.”

~~~
GuiA
Similar phenomenon in Silicon Valley with Israeli engineers.

~~~
tehlike
I find israelis pleasant to work with, mostly because i think they are smart,
and they have a good idea what they are doing. They also want to improve
constantly.

Also they speak their mind, no bs. We need more people with this mindset.

