
The West Is Becoming More Like China - baybal2
https://asia.nikkei.com/Opinion/How-China-reversed-the-new-Great-Game-of-strategic-competition
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zxcvbn4038
Countries envy what China has become? Maybe those countries should be reminded
they had all this in 1933, with a catchy theme song, and all the spätzle they
could eat. They didn’t seem so envious then, spent something like 17 trillion
(adjusted) to be less like China.

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recursivedoubts
_" Whatever the price of the Chinese Revolution, it has obviously succeeded
not only in producing more efficient and dedicated administration, but also in
fostering high morale and community of purpose. The social experiment in China
under Chairman Mao's leadership is one of the most important and successful in
human history." _

-D. Rockefeller

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uep
This is not at all what the article is about? I do not think the Chinese are
as unified as they are made out to be.

I think it's a joke to pretend that China is some ideal to aspire to, but
sadly, I think the West will have to use similar tactics to continue to
compete.

I believe a big part of China's current strength is by actively exploiting the
weaknesses of Capitalism. For a long time, they've exploited the race-to-the-
bottom of pricing, and they've gotten rich from it, partially through the
sacrifice of their people.

Now that China has that new-found wealth (the country and the people), they
are using that wealth to exploit Capitalism in a different way. Since
Capitalism is inherently less directed and "top-down", now they're able to
manipulate industries by being a big buyer instead. This is inherently part of
Capitalism, but since the Chinese government has a more direct control of
their economy, they're able to leverage a huge amount of economic power in a
more directed fashion.

You want to sell that product here? Well, you're going to have to do it our
way. Western governments will have to do the same, putting restrictions on
what compromises Western companies are allowed to make, and putting
restrictions on Chinese products as well.

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beaunative
Exploiting the weakness of capitalism sounds like a joke, because capitalism
is the ideal American claims to be persuing but somehow if China wins, it's
exploiting the weakness of capitalism, and if America wins it's another
victory of our democracy.

~~~
uep
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. It sounds like you're saying that
I'm somehow framing my opinion in a dishonest way, but I'm not sure in what
way you're claiming it is dishonest.

Is it because my comment isn't pro-authoritarian/totalitarian?

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tabtab
Some have observed that the average family income of dictatorships tends to
plateau at about half that of mature democracies, regardless of the economic
system used. Things inside may start to get edgy when they hit that ceiling
after everyone being used to growth. (Due to China's sheer size, half is still
a big chunk of economic power.)

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mamon
I've written this multiple times on HN: democracy is a weird and temporary
quirk, the natural state of mankind is totalitarism.

For the short period of time (1.5 century) we were in this state where masses
were educated well enough to demand political rights for themselves, and
elittes didn't have the means to fully control them, so the compromise called
"democracy" was made.

Nowadays, with technical advances in many areas, like online banking,
smartphones, social media, AI it again becomes possible for elittes to
excercise total control over average citizen, therefore mankind will soon
revert to it's natural, totalitarian state.

~~~
Barrin92
China isn't totalitarian. I'm a little tired of the impoverished discourse
around non-democratic governments. China is an autocratic country, which is to
say it's a completely depoliticised society, whereas the defining feature of
totalitarian societies is mass mobilisation. China aims to be like Singapore,
as Gibson called it "Disneyland with the death penalty", rather than a
totalitarian state.

In contrast to historical elite government or totalitarian states the party in
China is very much accountable to the population and its well-being. The
justification for their continued existence is rising the standards of living
and successfully managing society, which renders comparisons to pre-democratic
times moot.

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MagnumOpus
> justification for their continued existence is rising the standards of
> living

It is a "justification" but since failing to do it does not come with any
penalties there is no actual accountability. Mao starved 50 million of his
comrades by mismanaging society and outright killed a few million more being
paranoid -- and they didn't kick him and his cronies to the curb, instead they
venerate him like a god and give his friends' grandchildren sinecures.

The fact that China lagging decades behind South Korea or Taiwan for 50 years
didn't get the CCP ousted tells you how thin the veneer of "accountability for
rising living standards" is, and how much the party actually rules with an
iron fist.

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Barrin92
This is too myopic and one-sided. The cultural revolution created carnage but
China also saw unification, the biggest increase in life expectancy and
literacy in modern history, and essentially the development of what is now
modern China.

And yes, the CCP is effectively unoustable but the CCP _is the government_ ,
not just a Western style party, it's a complex governing body. For factions
and individuals within the party there absolutely is an incentive to perform,
and the party had countless of purges due to unrest.

Don't forget that Xi himself was sent to the countryside under the program of
the same name after his father was thrown into prison. The party isn't going
to go away, but the authorities in it absolutely are subject to scrutiny. Also
Taiwan of course was subject to one party rule until the 90s and not a
democratic nation either, and neither was South Korea under Park Chung Hee.
Economic development in all three countries did not take place under
democratic government.

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g4rret
non-paywalled link: [http://archive.today/j83zb](http://archive.today/j83zb)

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oxymoran
But let’s continue to worry about Russia Russia Russia.

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blaser-waffle
The Russians have a literal "Manchurian Candidate" in the White House, who is
openly murmuring about a 3rd term and displaying openly totalitarian
tendencies.

A report released by the Senate Intelligence Committee that just came out
today clearly demonstrated that Trump received extensive and unprecedented
levels of help from the Russians to get into office.

The Chinese are walking, talking examples of the book 1984 -- but that doesn't
mean Russia shouldn't be focused on either.

