
How Memorizing “$19.05” Can Help You Outsmart the MTA - uptown
http://iquantny.tumblr.com/post/96700509489/how-memorizing-19-05-can-help-you-outsmart-the-mta
======
scrollaway
What a disgusting dark pattern to be put to use in public transports.

I don't think this can be classified any other way than a scam. Sure, they
scam _you_ out of a couple of dollars, but they do it on a massive scale and
at the expense of thousands upon thousands of people.

~~~
wdewind
No, the point is to incentivize people to keep their cards, ie: conserve. It's
a good thing, just like the charge for a new card. I'm a New Yorker, so at
least some of us like it.

~~~
tomp
The correct way to do that is to charge a deposit for a new card. That's how
London's Oyster cards work, although it's a scam in other ways (to get the
"deposit" back, you need a proof of address, i.e. if you're a tourist, you
can't get the deposit back (except on some specific tube stations)).

~~~
shawabawa3
> to get the "deposit" back, you need a proof of address,

That's only for registered cards. Which makes perfect sense, because they're
registered to an address to prevent people stealing them and returning them
for cash

~~~
tomp
That's a rather bad argument; that's like saying you should only be able to
use cash that is registered to an address, to prevent people from stealing it.

~~~
randyrand
That actually sounds like a decent idea.

Bitcoin is already this way. All "cash" is associated with an address. To use
that cash you need to be the owner of that address.

~~~
schoen
Pretty different senses of "address", though! A street address or a
cryptographic key.

~~~
randyrand
Yeah, it's an interesting comparison. For the Oyster card, you just need proof
that you live where you say you do. For bit coin you just need to not lose
your key. Similar purpose. Different execution.

note: lose as in someone steals it.If it's totally lost the money is gone, as
we know.

------
bkcooper
Really, the only people I see likely getting caught out on this are tourists
leaving with unused balances. The argument that "they get the money sooner"
seems like nonsense to me. They get the money when you put it on the card,
either way.

Re: the tourists, Metro in DC has an approach that I assume is for charging
tourists more, which is that paper farecards (instead of the reusable SmarTrip
card) get a surcharge of $1 on each trip. They're very open about the
surcharge, so if you don't like it, then you can get a SmarTrip; however, it
would then take a pretty involved computation to end up with zero balance at
the end.

I'm actually pretty favorable toward the DC policy. Increasing tourist revenue
(who probably are going to be pretty willing to pay slightly more for limited
subway use) in a tourist-heavy spot seems like a reasonable approach to
subsidizing the heavier commuting users of the system. With Metro specifically
that may not be a huge deal because so many people have their commuting paid
for as a benefit, but I like the basic idea.

~~~
7952
Tourists are also probably more likely to buy an unlimited pass and avoid the
hassle of topping up completely.

~~~
pwg
The DC metro system does not offer an "unlimited pass". Each trip costs what
it costs, and deducts that amount from whichever card you have. There's two
rate schedules, rush-hour (pricier) and non-rush (slightly lower price).

I suspect the reason advertised to the DC metro's govt. managers is that the
paper fare card (the one that now has a $1 surcharge) is a disposable item.
Once run down to zero, or rolled over to another card in a fare machine, the
old paper card becomes trash. Therefore I suspect the govt. regulators were
told the fee was an "encouragement" to save resources and buy the reusable
plastic card vs. the throw away paper card.

Now, the fact that they get an extra $1, per trip, out of most all tourists
(and locals) who don't notice the surcharge up front (it is advertised, just
not that boldly...) was never really discussed at the regulator meetings.

~~~
jsight
It looks like a one-day unlimited pass is available:

[https://smartrip.wmata.com/storefront](https://smartrip.wmata.com/storefront)

(although I don't think that price is attractive for basically anyone)

------
mirkules
If they _really_ wanted to fix this, the text would read "How many rides would
you like to purchase ($2.50 per ride)". Of course, this only works if every
ride is $2.50.

~~~
embolalia
NYC Subway fares are always $2.50. Really, as confusing fares go, this is
nothing compared to DC's Metro. At the top of the machine, above the head of
anyone who can actually fit in the train, there's a massive listing of fares
to each other station in the system (on and off peak, which are different). In
order to fill your card perfectly, you need to know exactly which stations
you'll be using and when. Granted, most tourists will be traveling within the
distances that get the minimum fare, and off-peak, so they could just go by
that minimum fare. There's just no actual indication of that fact.

Oh, and if you want a plastic RFID card rather than magnetic paper that will
fall apart within 3 trips, you need to spend $10 for $8 of fare. (EDIT: And
another commenter mentioned something I'd forgotten: those paper farecards
also come with a $1 surcharge per trip.)

~~~
munin
each ride with the magnetic paper also costs $1 extra, to incentivize using
the RFID, but the RFID cards stop working after a month and when they do you
have no way to get the balance off of it the way you do with a paper card.
yay!

~~~
JosephHatfield
I was one of the first people in DC to get the Smart Card. That original card
lasted for more than ten years. The first (much thinner) replacement card
failed after two months. The second failed after three months. I complained to
WMATA and they completely denied any change in the card design. I've been back
on paper fare cards ever since.

~~~
pikewood
The original SmarTrip cards came from a company that went out of business, but
used proprietary technology. WMATA eventually found another company to create
the cards, and I believe this came about the time when new SmarTrip cards
reduced in price from $5 to $2. So perhaps not a change in the design, but
definitely a change in the manufacturing.

[http://wamu.org/news/10/10/15/metro_board_replacing_smartrip...](http://wamu.org/news/10/10/15/metro_board_replacing_smartrip_will_be_difficult)

------
lorddoig
There's a few comments here that say it only applies to tourists, because the
problem is only manifest at the card's end of life: lose the card/stop needing
it and _that 's_ the point you get shafted for the excess balance. Fingers
crossed a resident won't see a card EOL, they'll just top it up over and over,
and so it seemingly doesn't apply.

But equating long life with infinite life isn't quite right here. Every card
will stop being used some day. If the MTA know with certainty that X
proportion of cards do EOL with Y USD on them, then they can safely consider X
× Y as earnings and spend it immediately, ergo _the moment of first top up is
the true moment of shafting_. I'd bet good money that the MTA's internal
figures record earnings from excess balances by counting cards newly
registered, not cards recently expired.

I studied econ at a good school, and I can tell you that an economist would
100% equate this with theft. Because it is.

edit:

This -
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8274314](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8274314)
\- is a very good point. Ensuring cards always have a meaningful balance on
them is probably the best way to stop people treating them as disposable (I
imagine their cost is non-negligible). If they're given out free, it's clever,
but if you have to buy them (like London's Oyster cards) it's even more of a
scam. To have a totally clear moral conscience the MTA should really let you
return the card and cash out.

~~~
yasth
MTA internally only claims the revenue as earnings once they expire. They
could do it your way, but the accountants would throw a fit.

Also while they now cost $1 for most of the program life they were indeed
free.

Anyways regular users use unlimiteds, bank account backed cards, or do some
fancy rolling over of tax advantaged cards for the most part.

~~~
cpwright
The unlimited doesn't make sense if you only use the subway twice a day (to
and from work).

You can roll the balance of a nearly expired card onto a new card, but I don't
know if there is a way to recapture your $1 card fee.

~~~
thedufer
If you use the subway twice a day, 5 times a week, you're only one round-trip
per month away from break-even on a monthly unlimited. So unless you really
never do anything else, its a pretty sensible option.

------
mergesort
I really hated this too, so I wrote an app a few years ago for this, to tell
you exactly how much to put on your card no matter how much you have on it.
[Inserts shameless plug for Metroptimizer.]
[https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/metroptimizer-2/id649185762?...](https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/metroptimizer-2/id649185762?mt=8).

~~~
ErikRogneby
Way to scratch your own itch!

------
jacobbudin
The author doesn't seem to realize the MTA has tried and failed to get rid of
the bonus. The only reason the bonus still exists is because of political
pressure. Therefore, it's unlikely a "dark pattern" by a nefarious public
agency that the people need to "outsmart".

As another commented mentioned, it's about charging a full dollar amount
(after $1 new card fee) for people paying with cash.

Sources: [http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/16/nyregion/mta-chief-
signals...](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/16/nyregion/mta-chief-signals-
metrocard-bonus-wont-vanish.html)
[http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/13/nyregion/mta-may-
eliminate...](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/13/nyregion/mta-may-
eliminate-7-bonuses-on-metrocards.html)

~~~
masklinn
> Therefore, it's unlikely a "dark pattern" by a nefarious public agency that
> the people need to "outsmart".

Sounds like bull. They could trivially offer whole-fare counts and give
whatever price that represents with a "you save $x" note.

~~~
fnordfnordfnord
That sounds like something that would require internal coordination between
departments at the MTA, and is therefore not trivial. I wish it was /s.

------
zokier
I presume this does not matter if you are a regular user of the system because
over time presumably the remainders would accumulate?

~~~
krschultz
Yes. If you are a daily commuter, you should be buying the unlimited card
anyway. If you live in NYC and just the subways frequently (as I do), then you
just refill when you run out. Whether there is $2.45 or $0.00 when I run out
and need to refill doesn't matter to me. No matter what I'm cursing at the
train that invariably pulls in at the moment I run out of money and hustling
to the nearest machine to refill hopefully before the train pulls away. Which
is why I would never waste the time to enter a specific amount.

~~~
gav
If you are a regular commuter, but don't ride enough to make the unlimited
card work, there's an EasyPay MetroCard[1]. It refills automatically via
credit card (and you get the 5% bonus) so you never have to use the machines.

[1]
[http://web.mta.info/metrocard/EasyPayXpress.htm](http://web.mta.info/metrocard/EasyPayXpress.htm)

~~~
sneak
Conveniently linking a name and CAN to the JohnDoe#475738 in the facial
recognition database tied to your swipes.

No thanks.

~~~
jrockway
As though the cops standing outside the station aren't linking your card to
your facial record already.

------
radicalbyte
In Holland it's much worse. You aren't allowed to use public transport unless
you have minimal 20 EUR balance on your card (or agree to be tracked and I
assume have your travel data sold / 'lost').

This applies for return journeys, so after the first leg of the journey you
need to make sure there's 20 EUR left or you're screwed.

~~~
chiph
Other than the obvious money-grab by the authority (1 million cards x 20 EUR x
1% / 12 months == 16666 EUR income each month), what's the reasoning behind
this? Only financially solvent individuals can use public transport?

~~~
phlo
> what's the reasoning behind this?

Fair, per-kilometer pricing. Quoting from the english version of the page
linked above[0]:

    
    
      When you travel on credit, a boarding fare will be debited from your card when you
      check in. When you check out, the boarding fare will be refunded and you will be 
      charged for the number of kilometres you travelled. If you do not check out, you
      will pay the full boarding fare.
    

Not everything that looks like a blatant money grab is one. Hanlon's Razor[1]
prevails once again.

[0] [https://www.ov-
chipkaart.nl/reizen/tarieven/instapenbasistar...](https://www.ov-
chipkaart.nl/reizen/tarieven/instapenbasistarief/?taal=en)

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor)

------
podopie
To be fair, this is price agnostic, and they are the same patterns they've had
when the subway/bus price was 2.25. The remainders, while still more than a
couple pennies, were definitely smaller than the current setup. It also allows
for the MTA to continue price hiking (ugh) without people ending up with even
larger remainders: "I have 2.50 on my card but now it's 2.75!"

What they should have done was update these price points alongside the price
change that occurred to keep remainders at or under a dollar. A "fill to the
next ride" option could also be a great way to even out the remaining cost.
While this still isn't perfect and screws over tourists (particularly when
they removed the 1 day unlimited!), I imagine this is non-issue for the
majority of New Yorkers (myself included).

I also imagine there's good reason here. Imagine all the trash that gets
created because someone will finish up their metro card completely. The extra
$1 fee per new card was likely a newer solution to prevent people from
throwing them in the streets or in the subway trench, and providing an odd
remainder on the card may have been a historical way to do the same. Imagine,
if you had an extra dollar sitting around on your card, you probably would
reuse it, and not throw it out.

That said, the fact that anyone can get from Sunset Park to the Bronx
Botanical Gardens (a 20+ mile drive) for 2.50 isn't so bad of a deal.

------
harmonicon
I always thought "turnstyle" and its variants ("turn-style" in this post) are
misspellings of the word turnstile. However I have seen it quite a lot online
in different articles. Is "turnstyle" actually a different spelling for
turnstile?

~~~
lstamour
Not that I know of. The article also said "ween" instead of "seen", so maybe
it just needs a couple quick edits.

------
pjc50
This is the antipattern that "Microsoft Points" used to use, except there you
were forced to buy a round number that wasn't divisible into the quantity you
wanted.

------
diggan
That's an interesting article. However, seems very confusing at all to have a
card with money on it to travel with the metro. According to the comments
here, most other cities (in USA I guess) have it the same way as well.

In Barcelona, where I live, the system is different. You buy a card with
travels on it instead. One travel is a entry to the metro until you leave the
metro. So if you buy a card with ten travels, you're sure to get ten travels.
If you buy 50, you get 50. This seems like a much more reasonable system.

~~~
jrockway
Metrocard also works on other systems: the Airtrain JFK, which is $5 per ride;
PATH, which used to be only $2.25 per ride; MTA express buses, which vary in
price.

These systems are used because people don't want to line up and buy tickets
before every ride.

~~~
diggan
The same with the cards we have here. One travel is one ride, with metro, bus
or tram. Also the "trains" that goes to up on the mountains use the same card.

Having credits for travels vs money on the card won't make any difference on
how you buy the tickets. Only how easy it is for the consumers/users to use.

~~~
cpwright
It isn't reasonable for the fares to be the same. They are determined by
different transit agencies, and have different costs. The select bus service
is a much different experience than the subway, and as such is priced much
higher. Having a cash balance means you can decide what to use it on, when you
use it instead of when you buy it.

~~~
jrockway
Indeed. PATH and AirTrain are run by the Port Authority, which is a multi-
state agency. The subway is run by MTA New York City Transit, which is part of
the New York state government.

~~~
cpwright
But of course, the MTA isn't actually part of the state government ... because
nothing in NYS can actually be open and transparent.

~~~
jrockway
Yes, it's one of those weird "public corporations" or something that we love
so much in New York. I don't really get it.

All I know is that I pay taxes for stuff upstate, but only NYC city taxes pay
for NYCT.

------
aganders3
If all rides cost the same (i.e. price is not dependent on distance traveled)
why don't they sell cards with X number of rides on them? The "rides" on the
card could act like forever stamps, in that they would be valid even if the
price per ride someday increased. This seems like a much fairer system that
would still encourage people to buy in advance and keep their cards.

------
gdg92989
I guess this makes sense if you're visiting NY and you're only going to use
the subway a few times. If you live in the city though you're probably just
refilling the same card over and over. Then the logic of filling the card up
doesn't hold up. you should go for the largest "bonus" you can get and try not
to lose that card!

~~~
otoburb
This makes sense on the surface, but the confounding factor is that the NYC
MTA cards are rather flimsy. Bend these cards just a little bit and they
sometimes don't scan as smoothly. The trivial inconvenience of social pressure
while attempting to swipe an inconsistent card with a bunch of other people
behind you waiting to push through the turnstiles is enough to cause me to
consider purchasing a new card.

Yes, most of the time we're just refilling the same card over and over, but
these cards also have an expiry date of 1 year. This is still a good hack to
keep in mind.

~~~
macNchz
>This makes sense on the surface, but the confounding factor is that the NYC
MTA cards are rather flimsy. Bend these cards just a little bit and they
sometimes don't scan as smoothly.

I have plenty of criticisms about the Metrocard system, but I've had no
problems keeping my cards operational until they expire. I keep the card in a
regular card slot in my wallet, use it 2-4 times a day and refill it once a
month. No issues in years.

~~~
kelnos
Say what you will about the SF bay area's public transportation system (yeah,
it's kinda bad), at least we have RFID cards that are actually sturdy (I've
had my current card for over 3 years), there's an auto-refill system that you
can set up online, and I don't even have to take it out of my wallet to use
it.

------
Istof
They should at least have to follow the same law as gift cards for expiration
date: can't expire within five years.

[http://www.ncsl.org/research/financial-services-and-
commerce...](http://www.ncsl.org/research/financial-services-and-
commerce/gift-cards-and-certificates-statutes-and-legis.aspx)

------
adamzerner
> It turns out the MTA has designed it that way.

That's awful.

I'm no expert in economics, but bear with me. The MTA operates a natural
monopoly. In a natural monopoly you don't have competitors, so your customers
can't turn to someone else to receive better service. Furthermore, the
government has granted them the right to be the one provider in this market.

I think that this makes them somewhat of a public service. Normally quality of
service comes from the pressure of competitors, but in this case there are no
competitors. I think the government has a responsibility to see that this is
clearly a dishonest tactic and fix it. If the government doesn't enforce
honest practice, than it won't get enforced at all (because competitors aren't
there to do it). (sorry for the somewhat confused argument, but there's really
something wrong with this)

~~~
cpwright
For most intents and purposes, the MTA is the government. NYS sets up lots of
various quasi-governmental authorities, because the authorities can issue debt
without having votes, whereas the state government needs to have voters
approve bonds.

------
chillingeffect
1\. It is deliberate.

2\. It is merciless. (Would the city really lose out if it gave three rides
for $2.50 and then one for $2.45? They _already_ have a 5% bonus (whose main
purpose is to trick you into a -20% bonus) would a 5.03% bonus be unheard of?)

3\. To achieve fairness, this system burdens the entire city with a cognitive
load.

It's not theft, it's fraud. "But how can it be fraud?" you clamor, all of the
terms are spelled out clearly. The fraud is not in the financial transactional
terms, but in the trust to place in our leaders.

We entrust them to choose fares and design a fare-paying system that is
merciful, fair and doesn't enforce an undue cognitive load. This system
violates that trust. How can they expect the public to remain peaceful and
satisfied while they're deliberately infringing on our trust in this way?

------
warfangle
I just keep a $5 balance available on my unlimited use card. That way even
when the unlimited time limit runs out, I don't have to go and stand in line
to refill my card while I miss my train.

I just put the $2.50 back on it (and renew my unlimited) as I'm leaving at my
destination.

I guess for those who don't ride enough for an unlimited to be worth it are
gotcha'd this way.. I ride 20 times a week, though (break-even on a 7-day card
is 12 times a week; monthly is 6.4 times a week. I tend to lose my card
occasionally, though, and the hurt from losing a $112 card is a LOT higher
than losing a $35 card. Yes, they have a recovery system. No, I've never
gotten it to actually work).

~~~
theIV
I never knew you could carry a cash balance alongside the unlimited use...
This will save me from this incredible annoying situation. Thank you!

Now, just to remember to refill the 5 bucks when I run out of that...

Side note: I never really understood why they don't have MC booths _inside_
the station. My assumption is it's too costly between maintenance, and
security when the machine needs to be emptied vs. how much they stand to make
from it. But, ever since they introduced the credit/debit only machines, it
seems like it could save people a bunch of time when they only realize _after_
they've swiped, that they are out of cash.

~~~
error54
I've put money on an unlimited card and it doesn't work. When the card
expires, swiping it merely brings up the "card expired" message and there's no
way to deduct the remaining balance.

~~~
theIV
Oh, that's a bummer. :/

I guess my MTA experience has changed much today after all.

I wonder if there's a difference between starting out with cash vs starting
out with an unlimited (when getting the card). I don't see why that would
matter though.

------
Hawkee
I love the way they do it in Taipei. They have attendants at every station
where you hand them your card and cash. 2 seconds later your card is updated.
It's actually faster than using the machine as there's never a line.

------
JohnDoe365
Still fundamentally wrong. They should ask: "How many rides you wan't to buy"
instead of offering an amount to load after which you have to make the math on
your own.

------
edge17
The more insidious aspect of this are the psychological pattern of people like
my parents (who belong to a different generation) that will pick the UI path
that causes the least apprehension. My parents are both very intelligent
people, but they struggle like many with user interfaces on machines.

Every time I am in NY to visit, there is a stack of cards waiting for me - so
I will spend 20 minutes in the morning down at the train station filling each
of the tickets up to a sane number.

------
nhstanley
Wait, how long has it been like this? Haven't lived in NY for a few years but
they used to give you a nice round number bonus. This is the crappy kind of
thing businesses do that governments should specifically not do nor need to do
(trick you with dark patterns, force you to give a no interest loan/gift,
etc.). And I should point out it's regressive. That $1.95 matters _a lot_ to
some people. Incredibly shitty, IMO.

~~~
krschultz
I'm not convinced it is a giant ploy to screw you, I think it might be a hold
over from before the last fair raise. I don't remember the bonus changing, but
the fair changed.

------
davidf18
In NYC you can get the unlimited monthly passes with auto-refill from your CC
at the end of each month. Nothing could be simpler and is a great value esp.
compared with prices of anything else in high cost NYC.

It is much cheaper and easier to use than Wash DC. Also, the train frequency
even at 11 PM and later is every few minutes in Manhattan. Just wish we had
the Verizon WiFi access that the DC Metro has....

~~~
hbosch
Yes, I was waiting for this post to touch on the _value_ of the unlimited pass
($112 for 30 days).

If you work 20 days a month, and use the train to commute to and from the
office, then you're paying $100/mo just to commute. If you take the train just
5 times outside of your daily commute per month, you start getting free rides.
I don't think I ever met someone when I lived in NYC who was buying prepaid
cards instead of unlimited ride cards.

The "left behind" balance on prepaid cards are the same dark pattern as every
gift card in existence: the issuers bank on some (most?) balances being lost
or leftover or forgotten.

------
MiguelHudnandez
> You could even write it on the back of your Metrocard if you can figure out
> how to get ink to stay on it.

If I want to write something on a credit card, I put some clear tape over the
ink afterward.

I've never seen a MetroCard, but based on photos online, it looks like heavy
paper stock with a glossy finish. So a sharpie and some clear tape should do
the trick for the lifetime of the card.

------
moot
FYI, station agents will merge/combine MetroCards for you, so you can recover
small balances from old/unexpired ones.

------
patmcguire
I remember a similar thing when I lived in a building with it's own laundry
card system. You could only put on money in increments of $5, and every wash
or dry cost $1.70. The math there meant that you had to do an exact multiple
of 50 loads over the lifetime of the card, or else you would wind up orphaning
money.

------
kingkawn
When using unlimited cards I always back swipe as I leave the station to allow
others to get free rides.

------
skizm
It is the same reason why hotdogs are sold in packs of 10 and hotdog buns are
sold in packs of 8.

~~~
ghaff
Probably--but probably not for the reason you're implying. In both cases, it's
likely just how things ended up by reason of the various paths they took to
get to where they are today.

------
Coincoin
That's why here we have tickets on our cards, not money. The drawback being
that a ticket for one city or zone can't be used in another one. And of
course, every city's ticket bundles have different sizes, just like hot dogs
and buns packages.

------
yackob03
I have never seen the options ending in $9, does this only show up if you're
paying cash? When I pay with credit card I always get $10 and $20 options. If
it is only for cash users, $19.05 is a really terrible experience for someone
paying with a $20.

------
otoburb
My friend pointed me to an iOS app[1] that can generate tables based on target
remaining balances.

[1]
[https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/metrocalc/id328570105](https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/metrocalc/id328570105)

~~~
somewhatn00b
Another app that can do something similar:
[https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/nyc-fare-
finder/id578500857?...](https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/nyc-fare-
finder/id578500857?mt=8)

------
mcguire
Is the MTA's approach to card balances different from the "mail in rebate"
approach that took over from running sales on purchases?

Or, really, the practice of requesting email addresses and mailing list
subscriptions in exchange for coupons, etc.?

------
Schweigi
Doesnt this $2.45 left over money make the bookkeeping more complicated for
them? Because in theory someone could come back after a couple of years and
refill his card so its not possible to book those $2.45 as profit.

~~~
simias
With big enough numbers (and I assume there are a lot of these cards in
circulation) it shouldn't be hard to make statistics and know exactly what
percentage is never going to be claimed again.

That's the same tactic used by banks at a different scale, if everybody
attempted to claim all the money in their accounts (during a bank run for
instance) the whole thing would collapse, but they know it's not normally
likely to happen so they keep only a fraction of the total savings available
at any time.

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frankosaurus
The current pricing has the potential to cut down waste. If your metro card
has zero balance, you may as well toss it out. If you're carrying a balance,
you'll refill it at one of the kiosks.

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rthomas6
I consider this a dark pattern. That's pretty underhanded of them.

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savrajsingh
Imagine the UI was framed around # of rides, instead of dollar amount.

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happywolf
I doubt Metro can keep the money. There is an escheatment law whereby
unclaimed money will need to be turned over to the state. It is a big hassle
to them IMHO.

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dk0hn
My way is far simpler: fill and refill with $50. The 5% bonus adds one $2.50
ride, for a total of 21 rides. Easy peasy, with no weird values to memorize.

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terminado
Weak.

You can just buy a $20 card, pay $21, get the bonus, and then add on the
remainder of the next closest $2.50 block, in a second transaction, by using
the "Other Amounts" option, which permits any amount greater than $1
(including change, as in $1.99). If you can't fathom the math for this, while
thinking on your feet, too bad for you.

And yeah, this takes longer, and people waiting behind you might be impatient.
But this is New York, so everyone else can go fuck themselves.

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nodata
MTA doesn't mean sendmail/Postfix for anyone wondering.

MTA = Metropolitan Transportation Authority in NYC

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stephenc_c_
This is why I'm so glad we can now use our contactless credit cards on the
tube in London.

~~~
glitch003
That's a really great example of reusing capable hardware.

The clipper card system used in the Bay Area by BART etc is technically
capable of this as well, but it hasn't been implemented and probably never
will :(

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brown9-2
Do public agencies in other countries also try to scam the public out of
additional revenue?

~~~
albinoloverats
It's basically the same here in London; although if you're a local you're more
likely to have an annual (or monthly) pass or possibly automatic top-up if you
pay as you go.

~~~
Sulfolobus
Not sure that is totally fair, especially as Oyster allows you to go into
negative balance over a journey as long as you have enough for the minimum
fare on your card when you touch in.

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sii
And here I thought the article was going to be about mail transfer agents.

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mp99e99
great article, thanks for posting

I will use this next time I'm in NYC visiting, I'm frequently leaving with
small dollars or change, and I end up losing the card or forgetting about it
[as MTA's plan]

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nodata
Can you pay in part with a MetroCard and in part with coins?

~~~
moogleii
No, but you can refill your Metrocard with coins.

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u124556
Why not just ask how many rides do you want instead?

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peter303
Most tourist probably buy unlimited ride card, fixed period, so they they dont
have to worry about refills. It pays for itself if you average three rides a
day.

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SixSigma
Mail Transport Agent ?

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sneak
The MTA is no doubt using the same software or maybe even the same system as
the NYPD for facial recognition.

Reusing cards, or buying cards for anything other than cash, is basically like
an automated license plate scanner.

Use cash, and switch cards regularly. Never give them your name or bank card
to associate with their unknown record in the facial biometrics database.

I would be unsurprised to learn that this is used to get people to reuse cards
in an effort to persist a unique identifier for facial matching, as the video
data can be correlated with swipe logs.

~~~
wingerlang
Paranoid much?

~~~
teddyh
It’s not paranoia (at least not necessarily so) when there is every indication
that they really _are_ out to get you. Or all of us, really.

~~~
wingerlang
Out to "get" you exactly how?

