
Carol Dweck Explains the False Growth Mindset - jrs235
https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/12/how-praise-became-a-consolation-prize/510845
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raintrees
I was incredibly fortunate in that I had a high school teacher yank me back
from cutting classes, getting further behind in math (her class) with a
mixture of "you can do this, Mark" and "let's go through the problems
together."

I believe it was geometry leading into trigonometry, and since these classes
were very susceptible to incremental learning and almost impossible without it
(new work is based on older work/learning) it saved my bacon.

It served to switch me back from "I can't get this" to "I can figure this out"
again.

I now see that much of my life's successes are due to growth mindset and
perseverance.

Thanks Mrs. Brown...

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curiousDog
After reading the article, I think I still don't understand what a false
growth mindset is. Could someone explain?

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ideonexus
I hated the way the Dweck's explanations really didn't clarify what it is
either. The Growth Mindset is making sure students understand that their
brains are plastic and that we can grow smarter through effort. This
understanding has been shown to improve student efforts and get better
academic results.

The old way of doing things was to tell kids they are "smart" or "gifted,"
which resulted in many of those students simply giving up when they failed
because smart and gifted are static qualities. So when a smart or gifted child
fails, they simply weren't smart or gifted enough. I know many "gifted"
students who never amounted to anything because they failed to work at life
and simply expected their "gift" to bring them everything.

Based on this article, the "false growth mindset" appears to be rewarding
effort for effort's sake. "Effort" is replacing "gifted" as being associated
with inevitable success. Just because you put effort into something doesn't
mean you will succeed, and we must be careful not to, as Dweck provides as
example, praise a student who failed a test on their "effort." If a student
fails, they should be motivated to work harder. I try to do this with my kids.
When they fail, I do praise their effort, but I stress the fact that they must
now put more effort in to overcome their failures.

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npsimons
> The old way of doing things was to tell kids they are "smart" or "gifted,"
> which resulted in many of those students simply giving up when they failed
> because smart and gifted are static qualities. So when a smart or gifted
> child fails, they simply weren't smart or gifted enough. I know many
> "gifted" students who never amounted to anything because they failed to work
> at life and simply expected their "gift" to bring them everything.

I was one of these "gifted" children, although the end results weren't exactly
the same: when you're told "you're gifted", and things seem easy, you get used
to coasting. I was a mediocre college student who didn't even have to try, and
made it through college without really studying, but a low GPA. I never had to
take a class twice to pass, even the ones that everyone else had to. It used
to be, when I would find things challenging, I would get frustrated and give
up. I honestly can't remember working hard towards long term goals, and
therefore didn't feel very accomplished at much of anything. Most of my
motivation was from the pure pleasure of doing things, another area that is
oft neglected, to our detriment.

Now, I try to not to get frustrated, to try working things out, especially
things I'm not good at, even if I'm not enjoying it at the moment. This is one
reason it's important to get outside your comfort zone and push yourself. The
focus on not just praising effort, but praising correct effort and offering
corrective actions to improve when failure occurs feels very much to me like
parts of the deliberate practice method, another area that fascinates me and
helps me to try and break complacency.

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caminante
Thanks for your openness.

I assume you've already done so based on a few of your word choices, but if
you haven't already, I recommend checking out Peak [0], the latest (2015) work
by Anders Ericsson. He's the researcher who came up with the "10,000 Hours
Rule" as popularized by Gladwell. I thought the book had useful suggestions
such as how to make sure you're achieving deliberate practice, how to get
better when you don't have a coach, or what do for yourself (or as a parent
for a child) when considering quitting an endeavor. Ericsson also shares
reflections on what folks mistake about his research (i.e. 10K hours was
merely the mean for one of his studies.), while clarifying the approach you
SHOULD take as supported by his research.

[0] [https://www.amazon.com/Peak-Secrets-New-Science-
Expertise/dp...](https://www.amazon.com/Peak-Secrets-New-Science-
Expertise/dp/0544456238/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1482349512&sr=8-1&keywords=peak)

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JauntTrooper
That's really interesting, thank you. Did you find his techniques to be
effective in practice?

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caminante
Yes. In particular, I feel like I gained an improved set of questions to ask
myself when learning and others when coaching that have led to better results.

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redmaverick
[http://nautil.us/issue/17/big-bangs/how-i-rewired-my-
brain-t...](http://nautil.us/issue/17/big-bangs/how-i-rewired-my-brain-to-
become-fluent-in-math)

Barbara Oakley's take on how she became fluent in Math as an adult is pretty
interesting.

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darkerside
Thanks for helping me find this again. One of my favorite articles on anything
ever.

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DigitalJack
She was on NPR recently.

[http://www.npr.org/podcasts/456706345/innovation-
hub](http://www.npr.org/podcasts/456706345/innovation-hub)

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coldcode
I know a lot of adults who live with the assumption that they can never learn
anything anymore because they are adults. It's not just kids that suffer from
the idea that they cannot grow their abilities and knowledge. Some adults even
revel in a static brain and view learning with suspicion.

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closed
I wonder if the big challenge here is showing someone just how much they can
learn. Like, put them in a well managed language course, or in yoga (or
something), and see if it changes their perspective.

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perseusprime11
Aren't there articles already that clearly explain practice doesnt make
perfect? I never properly understood what Carol Dweck is actually proposing.
Can somebody clarify if there is a 3 step methodology here?

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jm_l
1\. Your ability to perform a skill is dependent on both how much you work on
it and how much innate ability you have

2\. Kids often get frustrated and lose motivation to work on improving when
they think their work doesn't matter

3\. Instilling a "growth mindset" means that they don't end up with a skewed
view of how much innate ability matters because their frustration prevented
them from putting in the work, and ultimately allows them to perform more
skills better

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perseusprime11
Thanks. So, what do we tell our kids? Focus on skills they are passionate
about instead of getting bogged down with skills they are not good at?

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golemotron
How many times will we circle around this before realizing that people have
different aptitudes?

We make a mistake when we evade that fact. We do it because we haven't created
a culture where people are respected independently of their aptitudes.

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kuzmin
Even if everybody does not have the same aptitude, that should not mean that
the people who might have more difficulty with certain subjects should avoid
them.

Sure, it might be more difficult for me to learn to play the piano than for
some virtuoso, but my life will still be richer after I learn it, instead of
giving up because it is difficult. No?

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SomeStupidPoint
Only in a vacuum: there might be something besides piano more in line with
your aptitudes that, for the same effort, will give you more reward (or the
same reward with less effort).

This isnt to say I don't believe we should do things we're bad at -- I think
broadening our aptitudes is good for us -- but you do have to consider the
opportunity cost of piano versus another option.

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golemotron
That's the tragedy of 'everyone can do everything' thinking. And it's why
growth-mindset has to be tempered with recognition of aptitude. If it isn't it
can derail lives.

