
Help Pay My Bills: A HN Experiment - bendauphinee
http://bendauphinee.com/paythebills
======
skowmunk
Have you tried odesk.com, elance.com, rent-a-coder.com?

You might find some good competition from East European, Russian and Asian
Coders on these sites- some of them are terrific coders/developers, but you
also have some inherent advantages.

From experience of working with contractors/programmers on odesk.com, in my
opinion these would be your inherent advantages that you can use to market
yourself:

1) working and being avalable to work with, during sane hours (for North Am.)
- working with somebody from half way across the world, even if they are very
good, can be tiring in the long run

2) Cultural acquaintance - Many programmers from the developing world have not
been exposed to the day to day life here in the more developed western world.
when websites are dealing with making the day to day life easier, dealing with
those whose awareness of it is next to nothing could be a big challenge
sometimes. (There are some who really good at understanding, though)

Other problem here is, from experience, even if they could speak english, not
eveybody can catch the nuances and subtleties of langauge which does have a
bearing in good comprehension/communication. (to be honest, even my english is
not upto the mark of an equally educated American, though I have lived in the
US for almost 1/3rd of my life)

3) The understanding of confidentiality is next to nothing in many countries.
Even if the understanding is there, the enforceability of related laws is very
poor or next to nothing. So, thats a big biz risk you can market yourself on
to North American customers on these sites, especially when dealing with
unique ideas.

Good luck.

~~~
bendauphinee
Thanks for the suggestions. I've been through both rent-a-coder and odesk, and
the big problem I found with bidding on projects is that most of them are scut
work, and I can't compete with twenty other people from East Europe, Russia
and Asia.

~~~
mootothemax
_The big problem I found with bidding on projects is that most of them are
scut work, and I can't compete with twenty other people from East Europe,
Russia and Asia._

I used to think this when I first started using RentACoder. Then I thought sod
this, and started giving quotes at my full-whack rate, and you know what? It
worked, and it's continuing to work :)

One bit of advice I'd like to add: don't be put off if the price listed for a
project is a bit below (or even _way_ ) below what you'd like to charge; I
find a simple email with questions, a rough timeline and then basic
explanation of why your quote costs so much (you need to work for a while at a
good rate) works well. Good luck!

~~~
bendauphinee
I will have to start trying this approach. Thanks for the tip. That was one of
the problems I had, was that it was so cheap.

~~~
mootothemax
You're welcome :)

There is one downside with RentACoder though, and that's that you won't win
_any_ jobs without having first complete a couple successfully. It's not the
end of the world - find quick and easy tasks, explain that you're looking to
build up your rating, and offer to do them for $3. It does mean that you'll
lose a day or two of income though. Once you have a couple of ratings though,
the only way is up! :)

~~~
skowmunk
I agree with both the excellent points made by motothemax:

Don't back off from bidding higher than the disered "quotes" mentioned by
customers. Once I went for a designer who was quoting more than twice my
initial upper limit for that job. when I looked at his profile, he had a very,
very long portfolio of his freelanching designs as well as designs he worked
on for customers. He had a lot of very high ratings from his past customers
and he justified/explained in a similar way that motothemax mentioned about
why his rates were higher. Another thing was, he was very professional and
upbeat throughout his communications.

So if you did be interested in some feedback on deciding priorites of a
customer:

1) Portfolio 2) ratings from past customers (here the readiness to work
initially for lower rates, may be usable sometimes) 3) scores on Odesk tests
and the distribution of those scores across different tests - its not perfect
system, but its better than no scores

------
jacquesm
Maybe you need a more structural employment to balance the need to pay your
bills?

After all you can't post this sort of thing every day, and if the first day is
successful you will still have the same problem on the next.

~~~
bendauphinee
This is true. I was considering that might be an issue, to get recurring
traffic. I have hope though that enough people bookmark the page to come back
to that I can continue selling my time. Even a few hours a day is better than
nothing.

I have actually started applying for jobs again, which stinks because I love
the freedom that freelance affords. Unfortunately for me, freedom does not pay
the bills :)

~~~
tomedme
I need a copywriter to fluff up some text for SEO on a website.. but it's not
in the list of things on offer, and I'd happily $12 an hour for that kind of
work.

~~~
jyothi
Wondering if $12 for copywriting work is expensive. An article with relevant
content & tuned for SEO within an hour is fairly demanding. A good 500 word
article will cost $15 in the market.

I run SEO services & have been using this new startup mediapiston.com as the
content provider. I have had good experience so far. They have excellent
review process where each article goes through 3 reviewers before it is
submitted back to the requester. You can possibly try such a service.

As far as the author, programming & design work would get best rewards and in
single chunk.

~~~
ekanes
I don't think his intention is to find and match perfect market prices, he's
just throwing this out there to see what happens. Note also that given his
skill set, if one was marketing to a technical audience, $12/hour might be
cheap...

~~~
bendauphinee
This is correct. I'm seeing what happens, and if I can get my bills off my
back. My standard rate for work is $25/hr so I'm currently quite discounted,
just to get some work quickly.

------
lachyg
Have you tried selling stock photography on iStockPhoto? Collis from Envato
said he made something like $6k a year without even touching it. Why not
upload all your photos there?

He also has a site called CodeDen or something, where you can sell PHP
scripts. Why not do some work and upload your stuff there?

There are lots of large communities specialising in the stuff you list there!

~~~
mahmud
I had to look that up because I thought $6k/year was laughably low and you
must have forgotten a zero. Turns out he made $6k in THREE years:

[http://freelanceswitch.com/money/how-i-make-2000-every-
year-...](http://freelanceswitch.com/money/how-i-make-2000-every-year-without-
doing-very-much/)

With the AdSense non-sense, pennies from the appstore and what have you, I am
starting to wonder: are people really that averse to going outside and getting
a non-laptop job? I used to make $500/day washing windows, man. It was me, a
bucket of sprays and a bunch of rags. Should I have blogged about it and
tweeted around?

~~~
skowmunk
Where was that $500/day washing windows job? If i don't get funding, I might
need something like that when I would quit my job and start working on my
start up full time

Would hate to drain up my resources by not having any cash flow.

~~~
c1sc0
How on earth is washing windows worth $500 / day ?! Or am I misunderstanding
and does it involve rope work?

~~~
tomedme
Not difficult at all - I remember paying £25 for someone to clean the 4
windows of a flat I was living in, which was on the 1st floor of a house.

How long do you think it takes to do 4 windows, exterior only, with a mop on
an extended handle? (the answer is: not very long at all)

He was cleaning next door's windows, so I spoke to him as I walked past, and
he dropped an invoice through the letterbox. And then 4 weeks later, he
cleaned the windows again, as if I'd signed up to a subscription... So I paid
£25 again, for not much.

If you can schedule a route of cleaning, you can do 12 houses in just a couple
of hours.

12 x £25 = £300 (which isn't far off $500; $475 at today's exchange rate).

You'd need to deduct your van costs and cleaning equipment out of that though.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
We pay £3 a fortnight to have about 6m^2 of window (ground floor) cleaned to
retail spec including wiping down the paintwork afterwards and a free internal
clean every 6 months or so.

It takes probably as long for them to take the money as it does to actually
clean (about 5mins I reckon).

------
RBr
Here is what I think you should do:

1) Do some research online about legitimate ways to make money. Make a very
long list with no fewer than 100 entries. These don't need to be things that
you're interested in, but each one needs to result in some form of income.
None of these things should cost any money to make money _or_ require you to
pimp out your friends and family for referrals. Don't limit yourself online
either, remember that people earn money in easy ways offline as well and that
something as easy as personal shopping for an elderly person in your
neighborhood can bring in $50 a week for something you're doing anyway. Be
creative and constantly add to this list.

2) Create profiles, sign up or apply to each one of these money making
methods. In some cases, you'll need to create basic websites (storefronts),
etc to facilitate income. Do not spend any more than 4 hours of a single day
stetting up any single method.

3) Start thinking about a portfolio. It doesn't matter what life goals you
have, you need a portfolio - especially if you're going to be earning money
this way. Think about what your "perfect" job / gig / startup looks like and
carefully collect items for your portfolio that support your expertise in your
target area. Opportunistic portfolio work is the only type of work you should
ever do cheap or free.

4) I bet you have already started to do these things. You've identified 4 very
general things on your website that you can do. However, you've put out a
general call for work in common areas. Think about your skills (starting with
the 4 you've listed) and look at the looong list of money making
opportunities.

5) Once you get a couple of bucks in your pocket and you get the bill
collectors (if any) off of your back, a really fun experiment is to have your
bills paid by passive income. One-by-one, if you can slowly discard one bill
at a time using things like affiliate programs, ad income from your blog,
whatever... you'll really start to have fun. The only rule in this "game" is
to define a small number of maintenance hours per week to maintain your
passive income. The natural progression of passive income using this strategy
is to take an item from your looong list of income sources and modularize /
mechanize it to reduce the amount of labor it takes to complete the task to
the absolute minimum. Sometimes, leveraging the low cost labor of others to
preform tasks that are easy to repeat is a great way to move a task completely
passive.

6) Above all else, keep your chin up. Remember the setbacks and failures but
don't let them put you in a bad mood. Staying upbeat and creative is the key.

~~~
bendauphinee
I have been working towards creating passive income. One of the projects I am
working on is a v1 of my own freelance business management tool, but that is
still a few weeks from completion.

And of course, I am keeping my chin up. As disturbing as it is to get calls
about overdue bills, I am not letting that paralyze me (as shown by this
experiment).

~~~
BenSS
Don't fall into the passive income trap. How many hours have you spent
creating this tool that could have been spent freelancing or at a PT job. Or
talking to prospective clients BEFORE creating the tool? There are a ton of
products already out there.

~~~
bendauphinee
While this is true, I am building for myself anyway. I'm using this project to
test several pieces of new code I have constructed, and I have been using it
to manage my own freelance work anyway.

------
dalore
Sorry, but if that site is anything to go by I don't think I would be asking
you to help design a web site.

~~~
bendauphinee
I like my own design for my sites. But here are some other samples of client
sites.

<http://youthrunningseries.ca> <http://ginettejewellerydesign.com>
<http://duncanhadleytriathlon.ca>

~~~
RBr
There are two broad strokes of web designers. Those who are best suited for
true frontend projects and those who are best suited for application design.

Frontend projects require artistic skill and a deep understanding of user
interface design.

I bet that you're an application designer. This is an excellent thing to be
good at - 99.9% of all medium and large design projects require application
development and planning.

If I'm right, you should monopolize on this niche. There are a good number of
artistic designers who don't know very much about code. If you develop some
examples (aka a portfolio) you could be the "go to guy" whenever any number of
large artistic shops needs to integrate or develop an app into their frontend
design.

If there are a lot of small businesses in your geographic area who require web
design (it doesn't sound like there are), I think that you should either rely
on web site templates or subcontracting template design from artsy frontend
folks. What you're doing now is a disservice to your own body of work.

~~~
bendauphinee
Thanks for the feedback. I am more of an application designer than an artsy
one for sure. I guess I will have to start pursuing that angle a bit more in
depth.

~~~
dalore
Find a good designer to work with. A developer with a good designer makes a
good combo since they can produce stuff that looks good.

------
nailer
If you want customers, give them some value. I didn't read your link because
paying your bills is nit in my interests. Perhaps you do something else that
is, and would make a better headline?

~~~
bendauphinee
Do you have a suggestion?

~~~
jasonlotito
How to Win Friends and Influence People. This book. It should be required
reading in school.

~~~
eru
No, it shouldn't be. I never read any of the books that were required in
school.

~~~
jasonlotito
How accurate you are. =) I should say that everyone _should_ read it while
they are still in school.

~~~
eru
Though I do have to admit that you can't avoid learning at least some things
about the books you are supposed to have read in order to fake.

------
midnightmonster
"not have to move back into my parents place while I job hunt"

In your position, I would strongly consider moving back into my parents'
place. I got married right out of college and my wife worked in resident life
while she was a grad student so we could live on campus for free. But if I had
been single and struggling to make a freelance career work (instead of married
and...), I probably would have moved right back home. Saves a bunch of money
(don't forget food savings), which gives you time to build the life you want.

FWIW, I did end up 'giving up my freedom' and took a full-time job in retail
so we could get decent health insurance and have a baby. I did that for a year
and a half, then split work and childcare with my wife for a couple years, and
for the last 2.5 years I've been supporting my wife and three kids solely with
my freelance work. So even if you have to give up freedom for a while, you can
bank the experience and work your way back.

------
wenbert
I can relate to this post. I live in the Philippines have a good steady job
but still not enough money to live comfortably and save at the same time.

I sell my extra time at night to do websites and design as well. I have been
doing it for a few years now (>4years). I sometimes take breaks from it
though.

I never tried odesk or similar sites. I tried to look for a small job there
but there are too many uncertainties. Over the years I have about 1 or 2
clients that come back regularly so I just stuck with them. Although more
would be better because I still have more time left. lol

------
kilomanamolik
I don't get it. Your website looks like crap, your writing is poor, and the
color scheme you chose looks like it came out of the 90's. This is pretty
pathetic. What makes you think that anybody would hire you over someone else
with better, more impressive, credentials?

~~~
bendauphinee
Thank you for your valuable feedback. I believe that there is a market for my
skills, and that has been proven repeatedly. I have gotten work, based on my
current website and projects I have done, and I'm sure I will continue to be
able to find work in the future as well.

------
jason_tko
Sure, I'll throw in.

I need a nice, clean PDF report done up with good typography that will be
offered as a free report on the main MakeLeaps site.

I was planning on hiring a freelance designer for this, but if you're able to
do this, please contact me and lets talk.

~~~
bendauphinee
Emailed you. Thanks

------
joey_bananas
> Rebel XSi, so quality is not a problem

Because the camera is all that matters, right?

~~~
bendauphinee
Well of course not. Before I got that last year, I was shooting with a Canon
PowerShot A640 for over two years. Just the XSi produces cleaner shots,
because of the larger sensor.

------
adnam
Seems a bit lackadaisical.

~~~
jacquesm
Is that another way of saying 'creative'?

~~~
adnam
No, another way of saying 'lacking gusto or spirit'.

This guy might be the bee's knees, but his marketing sucks. The title of the
page is "Pay the Bills" FFS! I'm not interested in paying his bills or his
fancy pricing scheme. I'm not interested in finding out his talents, if
explains he "lives near some parks and trees" before listing any real
accomplishments. It practically comes over as arrogant, and I'm amazed he's
got any work through this at all.

~~~
bendauphinee
I seem to have caught your attention though. For someone who is not interested
in buying my services, you seem rather worked up about my lack of marketing
skills.

~~~
adnam
No I'm not worked up at all. Most things on the front page of HN catch my
attention. Good luck, btw.

------
jw84
You can give TaskRabbit.com a try.

~~~
bendauphinee
I had never heard of them. Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately, I do not live in
any of the listed cities.

~~~
aymeric
Try to list your services on <http://TaskArmy.com> (my startup).

------
zackattack
send me an email, i will have php work for you

~~~
bendauphinee
Sent an email. Thanks

