
Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones? - cremno
http://fusion.net/story/214995/find-my-phone-apps-lead-to-wrong-home/
======
mapgrep
My money is on a wifi SSID that matches the one used by thieves or a heavily-
trafficked location the victims all pass through.

My company moved ~5 blocks and it really screwed up the map on my phone (which
I use to get around the city) for several months. My company had left the
network SSID the same in the old location, so that no one had to re-configure
their wifi. Even with GPS on, my phone was always convinced it was in the old
location up the block, and this would persist even when I was out on the
street, until I walked around a bit.

There are companies (presumably Skyhook is one of them) who drive around
mapping SSIDs to physical locations. The problem is that SSIDs can move or be
duplicated elsewhere.

The article says of one of the couple "at one point he reset their router, and
changed the frequency at which it broadcasts; it didn’t solve the problem." It
does not say if he changed the SSID.

Theoretically, location is often determined using not just one but several
nearby SSIDs, a sort of triangulation. Another possibility here is that there
are multiple nearby SSIDs around this home that match the SSIDs surrounding
some other area tied to the victims.

~~~
wang_li
It seems much more likely that there is some bogus location data set somewhere
that improperly links SIDS and GPS coordinates or filters fail and result some
index into a GPS table that happens to correspond to this couple's home.

If I were these two people, I'd contact the local police department every
single time anyone shows up at their house and require that the PD fill out a
report of some kind and keep it in a single case/incident/folder. Then put a
sign on the door that says:

> Before knocking contact the police department at ###-###-#### and ask about
> incident #XYZ. The get off our property.

It's bullshit that police are coming to the door and dragging them outside
while trying to determine if a search warrant is in order.

~~~
chad_strategic
\---> It's bullshit that police are coming to the door and dragging them
outside while trying to determine if a search warrant is in order.

I think this is the biggest issue! Their rights where violated.

~~~
ghshephard
What rights are you referring to? The police seem to have done everything
correctly. These were individuals who were being detained pursuant to an
investigation of an ongoing crime. The police did _not_ search the inside of
the house without a warrant - though, it's unclear why not - if they had
strong belief that there was a crime in progress, they had every legal right
to do so.

I guess the only thing in question is whether "missing child" was precise
enough to be upgraded to "crime" in this jurisdiction. I think that, given the
evidence, the police did everything correctly; being detained pursuant to an
investigation isn't a great inconvenience (though, some accommodation should
be made to allow people to use washroom facilities if investigation is
extensive - just obviously not in the house under investigation.)

~~~
asciimo
Software that puts a blinking dot on a map should not be considered probable
cause.

~~~
ghshephard
The findmyfriends feature on my iPhone has been 100% accurate in identifying
where my friends are. If I had a child who went missing, and findmyfriends
showed that they were in a house, I would _absolutely_ hope that the police
would go to the house and rescue my child.

I would also hope that the police would have enough sense to prevent any
occupants from the house from going into the house and potentially
destroying/hiding any evidence, and/or, powering down the iPhone.

As it was, I think the police showed restraint by _not_ going into the house
until they had a warrant.

~~~
PhantomGremlin
_The findmyfriends feature on my iPhone has been 100% accurate in identifying
where my friends are_

My wife and I use Find My Friends quite often to keep track of our children.
I've used it for years, so I'm quite familiar with it. Our experience is quite
the opposite of "100% accurate".

I provided more detail in this other post:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10950107](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10950107)

Edit: just looked up the USA version of "probable cause" here:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probable_cause#United_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probable_cause#United_States)

In my opinion Find My Friends does _not_ meet the standard of probable cause
as defined by that Wikipedia article. I'd characterize its behavior be
somewhere in between "reasonable suspicion" and "probable cause". I've seen
the location be wrong and stay wrong for 1/2 hour or more. And I don't mean it
can't find a location, I mean that it is repeatedly reporting the wrong
location ("now") for an extended period of time.

Oh, and BTW following that Wiki link for "reasonable suspicion" says that it
is sufficient for obtaining a warrant. IMO Find My Friends does meet that
standard, at least as I understand it by a quick reading of Wiki.

~~~
Houshalter
What percent of the time is the location totally wrong? Greater than 50% of
the time? If not then it's totally justified.

~~~
cortesoft
Wait... you are saying you are willing to have a 49% chance that the police
hold you in custody and search your house when you are totally innocent?!?
Think about that.... there are LOTS of stolen phones and tablets, and if the
police end up searching the wrong house nearly HALF the time that would be
hundreds of innocent people. Fuck that I am SO not willing to live in a
society where that happens.

~~~
Houshalter
It was a missing girl, not a random stolen phone. Yes I'd absolutely be
willing to risk inconveniencing one person to save a kidnapped girl.

The 50% number was made up anyway, it's likely higher than that. GPS
especially is pretty accurate, and these tracking systems probably use it when
available.

For a single stolen phone, probably not. Though you can still go to their
house and then call the phone right as they answer the door. If you hear
ringing then that's probable cause.

~~~
darklajid
Think of the children?

Either a location is enough for the police to search your place or it is not.
Don't pull the kidnapped big eyed little girl card, please.

~~~
Houshalter
What are you talking about? The standards should definitely be lower for
missing children. Finding your missing phone is a lot less important than
finding a kidnapped girl. Are you really saying the police shouldn't have been
allowed to do that search?

~~~
darklajid
I'm saying that the same indicator ("location service claims this is the
spot") should have the same result (probable cause?).

If crime1 w/ probable cause means you enter the building and crime2 w/
probable cause means you enter the building then there's no reason to bring up
tiny girls or puppies.

~~~
Houshalter
Your argument works equally well against you. Most people agree the search is
justified if it's a missing girl, therefore it should also be justified for
any trivial crime as well.

But obviously there is a difference between trivial crimes and kidnappings.
Inconveniencing a few people to save a life is acceptable. The expected
utility is positive. It likely is not for more trivial crimes.

------
sideproject
I had a similar experience about a month ago, when I thought I lost my iPhone
5s.

Logged onto "Find my iPhone" app and it told me it was about 1km away from my
house. I thought I must've dropped it somewhere nearby.

So I got the address from Apple Map, drove there and knocked on the door to
greet a rather defensive (obviously) lady who, of course, denied ever picking
up an iphone that day.

I snooped around to see if there were any suspicious people around, maybe she
has a wayward son who goes around and steals other people's phones.

I then went to the police office nearby and asked them what I could do. They
told me they can't use the GPS tracking as an evidence for a search warrant -
doh!

It was frustrating because the app was telling me that my phone was right
there! At the back of this lady's house!

At this moment, I was going through all sorts of thoughts - such as "should I
break into her house at night?", "should I go back and just barge into her
house and locate my phone and shout 'AH HA! I KNEW IT! YOU THIEF"!

Feeling dejected, I came home, only to find my phone sitting on the top of my
drawer.

2 seconds ago, I swear I thought she was the thief.

Apple - you disappointed me.

~~~
GhotiFish
out of curiosity, does it only show you a single point? Does it not show you
the potential error?

I'm working on a mapping app that uses GPS data and the first thing we had to
address was the fact that the data we got from the GPS units in the field are
not perfect, they have error, hell they _report_ their error, and our
application shows that error as part of the map data.

based on the data we have gotten from mobile phones, when a phone approximates
its position based on cell towers it spits out a large error. That surely is
being shown, right?

~~~
PhantomGremlin
_Does it not show you the potential error?_

I often use Find My Friends to keep track of the kids. I presume its location
methodology is similar to Find My iPhone. Here's how it behaves:

About 10% of the time, it doesn't show a current location at all for the kid.
It does remember the previous one, so it will show a location and say
something like "46 minutes ago".

When it does display a location, about 60% of the time it's a single spot.

The remaining 30% of the time it is a spot enclosed by a tinted circle. That
circle can be a few hundred feet in diameter, or it can be more than 5 miles
in diameter. This is the potential error. However, I'd bet that 95% of the
people looking at it don't understand the concept of "potential error". So to
them, the enclosing circle doesn't exist.

Edit: forgot to add, about 2% of the time it will show an "exact" location,
what I called a "spot", no "potential error" circle. Then a minute later it
will show a different exact location a few miles away. Then a minute later yet
a third exact location another mile or two away. So in other words, about 2%
of the time it is really confused (the kid is stationary the whole time).

~~~
slazaro
> The remaining 30% of the time it is a spot enclosed by a tinted circle.

That's the way I've always seen it, and I think it's a UX error. As you say,
most people don't even see the circle as the potential error in accuracy. IMO
it should be just the enclosing circle, otherwise people only see the point;
with just a circle there's less ambiguity.

------
patrickmay
I found this particularly disturbing:

> In June, the police came looking for a teenage girl whose parents reported
> her missing. The police made Lee and Saba sit outside for more than an hour
> while the police decided whether they should get a warrant to search the
> house for the girl’s phone, and presumably, the girl. When Saba asked if he
> could go back inside to use the bathroom, the police wouldn’t let him. > >
> “Your house is a crime scene and you two are persons of interest,” the
> officer said, according to Saba."

The police shouldn't be able to detain someone for over an hour without
probably cause and without arresting them.

~~~
pjc50
They had probable cause: the last reported location of a missing teenage girl
was their house.

~~~
mentat
Reported by something that has <90% accuracy? Less than 99%? It matters...

~~~
Houshalter
I would guess that the find my phone apps have greater than 99% accuracy. Just
not 100%.

I'm disturbed by how anti-police HN is. Like even searching for a missing
person is now some great abuse of power.

~~~
mschuster91
> I'm disturbed by how anti-police HN is. Like even searching for a missing
> person is now some great abuse of power.

Because police, be it in the US or anywhere else, has time and again proven
that they are not to be trusted and any power the legislation grants them can
and will be exploited or illegaly expanded.

Add to this that police (and most legislators, as well as most judges) don't
have a fucking clue how computers work on a technical level, or at least not
enough to be viewed as "reasonable".

~~~
Houshalter
That's fine, and has absolutely nothing to do with this case. The police were
just doing their job searching for a missing girl and had strong evidence that
her phone was in the house. And people here are outraged. It's absurd. The
point of the fourth amendment is to stop excessive or abusive searches, not
all searches ever.

Second I think some of the police hate is just availability bias. If you read
nothing but articles on the Internet about police somewhere doing something
bad, of course you will think they are all terrible. Like people that watch
the news and think air travel is more dangerous than driving.

~~~
mschuster91
> The point of the fourth amendment is to stop excessive or abusive searches,
> not all searches ever.

"Stop and frisk" and "asset forfeiture" means anything to you?

And it's not just the US where police commonly fabricates evidence, in
particular when it comes to drug or gun "offenses".

~~~
Houshalter
>"Stop and frisk" and "asset forfeiture" means anything to you?

And I agree that those are unconstitutional. But again it has nothing to do
with this case.

------
Splines
My guess is that some IP-to-Geolocation service says nothing more specific
than "Atlanta" and this couple happens to live in the geocenter of Atlanta.

~~~
femto113
This is roughly my guess as well, though I'd guess a ZIP code or some similar
geographical construct (ZIP3, ZCTA, etc.) rather than a city name.

------
kazinator
What's sad is how the local police seem to have some sort of learning
disability or amnesia about this problem. They showed up there repeatedly and
harassed the occupants.

~~~
ehaughee
Disclaimer: I agree with the intent of your comment but, as this is the second
time I've seen this comment in this thread, I'll bite and play devil's
advocate. Additionally, I have absolutely no knowledge of dispatch or any
other law enforcement software.

Where would the knowledge of this phenomena be stored? Does the dispatch
software have a notes field? If so, is it procedure to put that sort of
information in place? Do cops have access to it? If so do they regularly look
at it? If "no" to those points, how would a police force as large as Atlanta's
maintain that knowledge? A lot of large organizations rely _heavily_ on tribal
knowledge, so that's a possibility. But only assuming officers always
patrol/police the same areas and never quit or get fired, or if they do, they
always pass on the entirety of their tribal knowledge to the successor.

So again, I agree with the general sentiment, but this doesn't have to be a
matter of incompetent law enforcement personnel. It could easily be a problem
of lacking software and a system prohibitively large to maintain that kind of
granular information among all agents.

~~~
kazinator
> _Where would the knowledge of this phenomena be stored?_

In the same place where cops record false intruder alarms and give people a
warning or fine for too many.

~~~
blantonl
Good point - but there is potential incoming revenue to pay for that.

In this very remote use case, I doubt CAD (Computer Aided Dispatch) vendors
are going to write this use case into their development plans.

Unless they saw this on HN...

------
JonnieCache
Now this is interesting. Presumably the coordinates of their house are
significant in some way. The result of some kind of truncation perhaps? I
can't see how a floating-point error could converge on a specific value like
this, but I'm no expert in such things. If they could only post their address
the answer would surely be found very quickly, but that would defeat the
object somewhat.

I suppose it's fortuitous that nobody lives at 0,0...

~~~
tomlongson
0,0 is Null Island!

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Null_Island](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Null_Island)

~~~
b_emery
There's a weather buoy there:

[http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=13010](http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=13010)

Must be a hell of a crossing party associated with maintaining that.

------
IvyMike
It would be fascinating for someone to log into their Google Location History
and see where the phone was _right before_ it was at this house. It might
provide a clue.

[https://maps.google.com/locationhistory/b/0](https://maps.google.com/locationhistory/b/0)

~~~
veb
Thanks for sharing this link, I had no idea Google had your location history
so nicely accessible like this. I knew they kept track, but never once did it
occur to me that I could see it.

------
fibbery
Crazy idea: install a heavy, wood engraved sign in front of their house that
says "No, your phone isn't here".

~~~
manmal
If I were a regular phone thief, I would do exactly that, no?

~~~
frogpelt
I'm gonna guess no.

------
trunnell
How about GPS spoofing?

There's a claim that it's been done before [1]. Maybe a criminal organization
has the resources to build a GPS spoofing device that's used in their "holding
facility" before they root the phone?

Can anyone with RF or GPS experience guess the difficulty?

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incid...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incident)

------
adevine
If I were them, I would try a non-technical (or at least mitigation) strategy:
put a sign in their yard or on their front door that says "Sorry, we don't
have your iPhone" and a description of the problem and screengrabs/URLs of
articles like this.

------
xlayn
Other options:

    
    
      -The name of the wireless in a database and picking up
       the first one, could not be fixable changing the router
       name or ip address as it is already recorded somewhere
        -Same for other routers or ip address in the neighbor
      -Maybe it's not their fault but someone else did it on 
       purpose, e.g. take the cell phone and manipulating it
       inside a room with stolen/faked/forged data somewhere
       else and wrapped in a metallic sphere to block signals
       so only the forged router can be used?
      -Even more crazier: put a router really close and put
       there a vpn/proxy?

~~~
ghaff
Wouldn't hurt to change the MAC of the router (and the SSID while they're at
it).

~~~
MatthaeusHarris
The problem is not that the router is currently broadcasting a BSSID that
exists elsewhere. The problem is that a geo-wifi database contains an
association between their address and a BSSID.

They can change the router, and eventually the problem should sort itself out
(if it is indeed their router and not a neighbor's that is the issue), but
it's going to take until the old record ages out of the database for it to
happen. And that could be months or years.

~~~
Nikker
The one thing people seem to be glossing over is, why or how do all these lost
phones and people share the same geographic element between them?

~~~
outworlder
Because they all use the same third-party database. Probably Skyhook or
something similar.

------
cubano
You know, its not completely out of realm of the possible that these people
are lying and really know much more then they are telling police.

I am not implying anything about these people, but I am just saying it isn't
impossible.

I lived in Las Vegas for a couple of years and was involved with some people
who, from the outside, seemed like very normal folk...in fact, in many ways, I
was someone like that, too, due to issues I was fighting at the time.

We all have a different set of experiences in our lives, and, unfortunately
for me I suppose, my experiences make me think about this in a different way
then many here might.

~~~
coderdude
Based on the article that would also mean they're kidnappers and/or murderers
so it might be best to avoid playing the Devil's advocate on this one.

~~~
true_religion
Or... They are involved with people who steal, buy or refurbish stolen phones.

~~~
coderdude
I wish the article mentioned where all these people are coming from. If
they're all local then that could lend credibility to that explanation. If
they're from all over the country then that doesn't seem as likely. The
thought did cross my mind.

------
etingel
The problem is likely that the location where these phones are really at is
near the WiFi router that _used to_ be at this address. No amount of messing
with their router will help with fixing this, since those phones aren't there
to begin with. The couple might have better luck hitting up the previous
tenants/owners.

Based on this line from the article, I'm almost certain that this is the real
answer:

> It started the first month that Christina Lee and Michael Saba started
> living together.

------
dghughes
A teen in Canada tracked his lost cellphone to a home and was killed trying to
get it back.

[http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/jeremy-
cook-18-killed-...](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/jeremy-
cook-18-killed-after-tracking-down-lost-phone-in-london-ont-1.3114847)

------
bloaf
I wonder if the couple could make a profit on this mishap by suing anyone who
accuses them of stealing phones (i.e. on social media) _after_ visiting their
house.

~~~
nness
The geolocation would probably be enough evidence for claims of libel to be
ineffective.

~~~
bloaf
Hence the _after_ I deliberately emphasized. If they had already visited the
house and not found their phone (especially if the police were there) then
subsequent claims of theft against the couple would be much closer to libel.

~~~
refurb
So you're saying the couple would have to allow a stranger to go through all
their person belongings until they were satisfied the phone wasn't there and
_then_ sue?

Doesn't sounds like something I'd want to do.

------
qume
If this community can't pin point the problem together, then there is
something up here. Clearly this warrants Google, Apple, the telcos and someone
from an electronic forensic team each putting a part time expert into a team
to figure this out for everyones benefit - themselves and this couple.

Of course the reality is that key Google and Apple staff know exactly what has
caused this and don't have a ready solution so are keeping quiet.

In any case, if there are Google or Apple employees reading, perhaps you can
suggest this idea to someone internally in the chance there may be some
progress before someone innocent gets killed for 'stealing' a phone.

------
DigitalSea
I know it is an inconvenience, but couldn't they just maybe get a new router
and see if that fixes the problem? Surely a cheap router is better than
getting your house ransacked by police?

~~~
pawelk
It won't make any difference if it's caused by some random router being
correlated with their physical address. Phones connecting to that router will
still be reported as being located near the house, even if the family cut off
electricity and wrapped the house in a Faraday cage.

------
TuringTest
There is an obvious and simple solution to this problem; although it's not up
to this couple to implement it, but to all the developers building or using
geo-location.

This is a problem caused by incorrect data representation. Everything the
companies know about the location of the phones is an imprecise area, yet they
are representing it with this: [1]

This absurdly precise representation doesn't convey the error margins of the
information available, and it's what's convincing people that this couple's
home is the point that they're looking for. The mapping companies are
misleading their users by hiding the level of confidence about the information
provided.

Please all front-end developers, don't use a map pin to represent a place in
the map if you don't know their coordinates or exact address. A circle with a
radius proportional to the uncertainty area is the best representation in that
case.

[1]
[https://www.google.com/search?q=icon+map+pin&biw=790&bih=750...](https://www.google.com/search?q=icon+map+pin&biw=790&bih=750&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&tbm=isch&tbs=isz:i)

------
jbb555
I looked on
[https://maps.google.com/locationhistory](https://maps.google.com/locationhistory)
at what google think my location is.

Usually it's pretty accurate. But several times a year there are major
anomalies For example showing me traveling the 4 miles to work in London via a
quick journey to Oslo.

It's pretty reliable but not 100%

------
Swannie
What's shocking is the lack of a clear explanation by the so-called experts
contacted in this article.

My explanation as to what is likely happening: "Every WiFi router has a
special unique number - think of it as serial number - baked into the device
by the manufacturer (known as a MAC address). Manufacturers request a range of
these unique numbers from the IEEE, and are never meant to duplicate them.
When you connect to a WiFi router, you connect to its friendly name (SSID),
but also your phone receives a part of this special unique number (BSSID
address) [1].

Companies like Apple, Google, and SkyHook, record the location of WiFi routers
using this unique number. When a phone or other device has a strong GPS
location and a strong WiFi signal, they can fairly reliably assume that this
unique number is at this specific location.

However, not all manufacturers strictly follow the unique number allocation
rule, as getting allocations can be a time consuming process. 999 times out of
1000, reuse of these numbers is not a big issue, and goes undetected. In this
case, it is likely that the thieves are using, or are located near, a WiFi
router with the same unique number as this couple. Changing this special
unique number is sometimes possible on expensive enterprise grade WiFi routers
by knowledgeable experts, but not possible or advisable on home routers. The
couple should change their WiFi router."

Yes, I have conflated a number of terms there for simplicity. For technical
accuracy: WiFi router -> access point.

Edit: added [1]
[https://arubanetworkskb.secure.force.com/pkb/articles/FAQ/Ho...](https://arubanetworkskb.secure.force.com/pkb/articles/FAQ/How-
is-the-BSSID-derived-from-the-Access-Point-ethernet-MAC-address)

As BSSID is != MAC address.

------
incompatible
"Avast’s software kept tracking the phones after the other programs were
cleared with a factory reset"

Does anyone know how that works?

~~~
lenomad
It should work only for those phones which came with Avast factory installed.
After you do a factory reset and turn on phone, they send an SMS to contact
their server. This gives them the phone number which can then be used by the
server to send remote commands to the phone.

One of my phones had McAfee pre-installed with a similar setup. If you do a
factory reset and they find that it is a different phone number now, the phone
locks down (You can enter a pin to unlock). You can't even access the
bootloader or do another factory reset.

~~~
cwilkes
A phone had McAfee on it? I can't imagine how slow and painful it was to use
that.

------
tarikjn
Changing their router or even turning it off won't necessary help.

Here is a way to reproduce this issue and explain my point: if you are a
thief, you could setup a GPS spoofer pointing to that house or have had your
router in that house in the past so that some phones registered/verified it's
MAC address to be at the house location. Now assume the thieves live in a
location where they took this router with them and where there is no GPS
signal or other router or cell signal, but only the thieves' router turned on.
Now as soon as the thieves connect the stolen phones to their router, they
will report being at the house.

My bet is that this is likely an intentional attack by the thieves and that
they are aware of what they are doing. There is a small chance they could have
been people living in the house before or drove by to setup their spoof as it
would have been much easier than getting their hands on a GPS spoofer.

------
akavel
Given that people coming to them have their info _from somewhere_ , there
might be chance they could succeed through asking those visitors where exactly
do they have the data from, and then trying to contact/file the complaint to
this specific service/company/...

------
wahsd
This is just a hunch, but does anyone know whether there is any connection /
shared services between the phone finding system and the iMessage airline
flight tracking system?

It may just all be coincidence, but that flight tracking feature is so wonky
and jacked, giving false locations, legs, flights, and information on the
regular. I am surprised it hasn't caused a massive outcry for just how
horrible it is. It kind of makes me wonder whether there is some shared
service or database or something because the flight lookup feature just smells
of the same kind of failure.

I realize, most people don't know/recall that iMessage will auto-link flight
numbers. Just message the full flight number.

------
ck2
The only way they are going to get this fixed is to sue the company making the
locating software.

Kicking in their door is the least of it - some cop is going to shoot them
when they scream or react the invasion.

------
mangeletti
I didn't finish the entire article, but my immediate thought was that this has
something to do with these new phone drop spots that I've seen at grocery
stores.

You apparently can just put a phone in one of these ATM-like machines and get
money out, which immediately struck me as a clever way to buy stolen phones on
the cheap from criminals, with indemnity... which would definitely lead to
situations like this when those stolen phones are resold to unsuspecting
consumers.

------
mdip
Based on my experience with a few phones I own, there's a few things that
could be happening here:

It was mentioned the "SSID"/MAC address problem. It's possible that they have
a home router with its default SSID and are encountering a MAC address
collision (assuming MAC address is _always_ taken into account, which I'm not
sure that it is). Their router is likely part of some database that the GPS
uses when the phones enter an area with WiFi but no cellular service or line
of sight to the satellites. I had a similar failure every time I went indoors
to an archery facility I visited weekly for three months. Both my wife's and
my phone would think we were a clear 30 miles away in another city the second
we got far enough into the building to lose cellular service. I dug into it
and discovered it was using WiFi APs to get location. I think the archery
place has another location in that _other_ spot, so it's possible they swapped
WiFi gear at some point, but it's anyone's guess.

Another possibility, hinted at in the article, is that there's no other
location data available to the stolen phone (no mapped WiFi, no cellular
service) but it has an IP address so the devices are falling back to Geo IP
which is _extremely_ inaccurate (my IP address changed recently and I am now a
Canadian according to location services on my PCs with no GPS capabilities --
200 miles off). It could be a circumstance of "that IP isn't known, but that
block is owned by _x_ ISP and here's a general location of where that is ...
only the little dot happens to land on their house.

It would be _really smart_ for apps that track location for theft purposes to
keep a reasonable history. If it's a mobile phone, the last known high-
accuracy reading from the GPS should be presented along with lower accuracy
results to help in situations like this. I'd imagine it wouldn't be terribly
difficult to correlate several readings over a period of time and discard ones
that are clearly not sane (as would have been the case with my phone in the
archery place). A bonus would be to perform other actions when the device is
marked "stolen", like take photos at certain intervals and upload them to the
cloud to make it easier to "prove" your phone is in the hands of someone it
shouldn't be (one of the tools I had did something like this).

~~~
egypturnash
> It's possible that they have a home router with its default SSID

The guy is an engineer. I'm pretty sure their SSID has a silly in-jokey name.

~~~
mdip
I hear ya, but "Mechanic's Car"[1] sometimes comes into play. I recently
installed a new AC router in my home. I took the time to install OSS firmware,
customized all parts of the security, applied a few tweaks to the WiFi
configuration via a shell script and ... my SSID? "OpenWrt"

I keep meaning to change it to something snarky ("Free Public Wi-Fi?") but
then I know I'll have to enter my ridiculously complicated/long password into
a bunch of devices without keyboards.

[1] ... usually doesn't run right

------
plasticchris
I had something similar happen when I was in college visiting a friend and the
police show up asking who dialed 911, if she was alone, etc. This was before
ssid based geolocation become popular. I had to spend some time explaining how
inaccurate cell tower positioning is, most people just assume that if the cops
say it came from inside the house it must have.

------
jrochkind1
> Lekei said by email that the couple’s router could be causing the problem;
> if misconfigured, it could be broadcasting that it’s a different location
> than it actually is

Wait, what? Is my router broadcasting a location to someone? What technology
is this, and how do I make sure my router isn't doing it?

~~~
barrkel
[http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-google-and-everyone-else-
ge...](http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-google-and-everyone-else-gets-wi-fi-
location-data/)

------
ucho
Ignoring everything else - if it the phone that went missing, should the
location at least be accurate to nearest base station. In case of missing
child operator would provide triangulation results, right?

------
kelvin0
Once this is resolved, we might temporarily have a way to fool the 'illegal'
surveillance gear used by law enforcement? Unless they use some completely
different scheme to snoop on cell phone users?

------
such_a_casual
$1 says it's some null value.

This is a good premise to an "off-by-one" parable where it turns out the
neighbors are phone thieves.

------
tlrobinson
I wonder how easy it would be to spoof the location of a device with WiFi gear
that can broadcast multiple arbitrary BSSIDs?

------
strathmeyer
Why do they keep answering the door?

~~~
kagamine
Eugine Ionescu probably has the answer to that. You see, when the doorbell
rings it means that there is somebody there waiting for the door to be opened.
But not always.

