
DUNS - the fraudulent secret startup cost of iOS development - stefan_kendall
http://www.stefankendall.com/2013/01/duns-secret-startup-cost-of-ios.html
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guptaneil
Based on my experience, if you apply using Apple's form at
<https://developer.apple.com/ios/enroll/dunsLookupForm.action>, you can get
your DUNS number within 5 days for free.

I explained my full process at <http://blog.metamorphium.com/2012/12/03/apple-
duns/>

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vineet
Try getting the number from here:
<http://fedgov.dnb.com/webform/displayHomePage.do>

You basically tell DnB that you are applying for a US government contract.
They are then required to give give you the number within 1 day.

They will tell you that they will revoke your number if you don't enter
yourself in some government database within 90 days. You can then enter
yourself there (or as happened for us the first time we needed the number, we
were just too busy to do that and figured that we would let it expire and deal
with the consequences if anyone really needed to use the number).

~~~
eli
That seems dishonest. I don't think that's a good idea.

~~~
vineet
Yeah, sorry, I have little tolerance for government created monopolies that
are overly bureaucratic. We actually did have an SBIR for which we needed it.

D&B seems to be a good company, but the DUNS system seems broken and requires
payment just to signup for no value being provided.

~~~
nmcfarl
What makes you think D&B is a good company? As far as I can tell all their
revenue streams sit right on the border of extortion. If they couldn't
convince major players like apple or the US Gov to require the usage of a DUNs
number, they wouldn't even have those revenue streams.

Additionally they are at this point the number 1 source of voicemail spam for
me. And asking them to not call is non-functional.

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theoj
There was another article recently about the awful DUNS # process for the App
Store. You can find some good tips in the comments, including applying via the
federal site and applying via Apple's form. Readers suggest both of these
methods are faster.

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4977889>

I also posted my own experience getting the free DUNS #:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4978516>

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Zev
Worth noting that if you're a "single person business", you don't need to
bother with a DUNS number: <https://developer.apple.com/support/ios/D-U-
N-S.html>

(ie: If you were planning on hacking something together and charging for it on
the App Store, go for it. This won't affect you.)

~~~
Turing_Machine
Ah... I was wondering how I'd gotten around this when I signed up as a dev.

~~~
ajg1977
I think this is a recent-ish thing. I didn't have to go through it when
creating a company account > 18 months ago.

I'm not sure what problem Apple were trying to fix.

~~~
jarin
It's probably just a hoop they make you jump through to make sure you're
"serious" so that they can cut down on app approval times without hiring a
bunch more reviewers.

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techsupporter
My little non-profit apparently got a DUNS number automatically when we filed
our first 990EZ "online postcard" with the IRS. I had no idea that it existed
until a merchant card processor wanted it along with our EIN because D&B had
never called or mailed us anything. When I did the lookup on D&B's web site
and found the number already assigned, I gave it to the people who wanted it
and thought nothing more. Two days later, the phone calls and letters started.
"Your Dun & Bradstreet registration is incomplete and may not be accepted!"
They haven't shut up for over a year. Fortunately they don't appear to have a
working telephone number for me.

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Shank
Marco Arment spoke about the hoops he went through when going through DUNS on
Build and Analyze (#93, 24:48 in[1]). While his discussion isn't as
accusatory, it might be worth a listen for his experience in dealing with
them.

[1] - <http://5by5.tv/buildanalyze/93>

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to3m
A reassuring note for UK readers - I got my number in 3 days, and nobody tried
to upsell me on anything. (It's possible there's less paperwork for them in
the UK, what with UK company details being centralized.)

They did assure me that this stupid number would be useful for all manner of
stuff, which, so far, it hasn't been. But since they didn't charge me for this
misinformation, I'm willing to let them off.

~~~
ollysb
Yeah, we had a similar experience in the UK, we had our DUNS number the next
day.

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frere
I've dealt with these jokers with going after federal grants... very, very
shady and I totally empathize. Getting a DUNS number is actually free and you
can get it in 24 hours, but you have to call their super secret number for
federal contractors. Just tell them you're only using it to suckle on the
government udder. It is the same number regardless.

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Mizza
We just went through this at OpenWatch. Ugh, what a nightmare, and could set
our launch back by a few weeks. Horrible company.

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calebmadrigal
My experience: after about a month, they finally called and took my
information over the phone. I then waited the 2 weeks for the information to
"propagate" to Apple, tried to sign up, but it said something was off. It
turns out they forgot to put in our website address. So I tried to sign up for
their iUpdate account (which allows modification of your data), and apparently
I missed one of the questions, so now I can't update it online, and the only
choice is to mail in this paper form along with like 3 paper forms of
identification, then wait for a few weeks for them to give me credentials to
iUpdate, then make the single-field change, then wait another 2 weeks for it
to propagate to Apple. I called to ask "since you were able to take all my
other information over the phone, can you please just make this minor
modification?" The answer was always "no." D&B is indubitably the worst
"service" I have EVER worked with!

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Uchikoma
Just being curious - checking for Germany:

"If you would like to obtain a D&B D-U-N-S Number for your business, please
complete and submit the form below. Companies based in Germany will receive
their D&B D-U-N-S® Number within five working days. Companies based outside of
Germany will receive their D&B D-U-N-S® Number within 30 working days."

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peripetylabs
Yes, D-U-N-S numbers are a scam. The 30 day delay is to scare you into paying
-- I got a number free in a couple days. D&B will cold call you later to sell
you their many other bogus services. They'll also sell your information to
anyone who pays.

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aaronpk
I also had to register for a DUNS number. I was somehow able to do it online
and get the number emailed to me immediately, without any phone calls or other
human interaction. Of course the email contained promotions for services like
"DNBi SelfMonitor" for $39/month. So much for accreditation.

~~~
stefan_kendall
I'm pretty sure a meth lab trying to go legit could get by DnB. There's no
real screening here; it's pure extortion.

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zbruhnke
I have found a hack to get a DUNS number instantly that I have used for 5-10
different companies of mine, it works every time and as far as I can tell
there is no backlash. feel free to email me if you're reading this and want to
save $230 lol

~~~
benburleson
Is this a joke? Why wouldn't you just post it?

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sebilasse
Annoying that the Apple DUNS lookup is not working currently:

    
    
        "We're sorry, this service is currently unavailable. 
        Please try again later."

~~~
fotoblur
Same thing here. I gave up and decided to go through D&B's website and filled
out their forms last night. Got a call this morning. For $295 they can
expedite the process and get you your number in 3 days or wait 30 - 45 days.
This is completely ridiculous. If I get my number in 6 weeks and wait 2 weeks
for Apple to update their database I'm looking at a 2 month delay in releasing
my app. Nice job Apple.

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k-mcgrady
It is not a cost. The number is free to get. It's also only necessary if you
setup a company developer account - it is not needed for an individual one.

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gadders
Slightly off-topic - the submitter's app (Big Lifts Pro) is very useful for
people doing Wendler 5/3/1 or Starting Strength.

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latchkey
Could someone with some knowledge please cover _why_ apple has this
requirement?

~~~
guptaneil
I believe the requirement of a DUNS number began sometime around June 2012.
Before that, they required a company to upload their incorporation documents.
My guess is manually validating those documents became too much of a burden,
and it was easier to just rely on the same international database that the
government uses to identify companies. Basically, it allows Apple to offload
the manual labor of verifying companies to a third party at no cost.

~~~
babebridou
Just FYI, having a DUNS code is also part of the requirements for publishing
on the Windows Store. Symantec is the third-party doing the verifications for
Microsoft.

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vishalsankhla
This is a serious scam, wonder my Apple is going with them. Not only do they
scam you to signup for an account, they call you every month and scare you
into buying a report. They say that multiple companies are requesting your
credit reports and its not complete, you need to pay a certain amount to get
it in shape.

Any update can take up to 14 days and they call you at odd hours to confirm
those details as well.

Serious scam and a huge pain in the ass every company has to deal with while
signing up for a developer account.

I started my signup process in August and got the developer account setup for
our company in November. F#$%ing BS!

