

Auto-Tune: Why Pop Music Sounds Perfect - ALee
http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1877372,00.html

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musiq
We used to do "comping" of vocals back in the 80's, and afaik it's been done
since the early 70's. We did this on the 2" 24 track tape recorder by
copying/re-recording bits of multiple takes onto a single track.

Then came Auto-Tune. That meant that less perfect singers no longer would have
to strain themselves by performing a dozen tracks, we could do with three or
four, focusing on performance and feel. AT would assist with the pitch.
Sessions actually became more creative, since the tools were better than
before.

So "perfect vocals" have been around way longer than Auto-Tune. We just did it
in a more tedious way, and wore out the singers vocal cords in the process.
Pop is just pop. Other genres will always cater for those who want to listen
to more "real music".

~~~
mattmaroon
That last part was my first thought. Everything else about pop music is highly
synthesized and scientifically produced. Why not the vocals?

~~~
axod
"Everything else about pop music is highly synthesized and scientifically
produced. Why not the vocals?"

I sense you think this is a bad thing... Are cars made by hand any more? Does
being made by robots make a car any less fantastic?

~~~
nfg
Is the robot praised for its creative brilliance and held up as an 'artist'
also?

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GavinB
There's a fantasy out there that auto-tune makes you into a great singer.
There's way more too it than that! The difference between great and poor
singers is all about tone and emotion.

There's way more to making pop music sound perfect than Autotune. Every step
of the way is expertly crafted to fit together. No one complains about how
much studio editing respected bands like Radiohead do in the studio, so we are
we complaining about silly pop acts?

And to all the people who say that music is in a "rut" need to get off their
butts and actually put some effort in to find the great new music that they'll
like. Yes, you have to actually try, not just whine that things aren't the
same as they were back when you were coming of age.

Mainstream people listen to fun, accessible music. It's always been that way,
so get over it! There's great music of every type being made right now, you
just have to go look for it.

~~~
mattmaroon
Music is definitely in a rut and has been for years now. It's just part of the
cycle. There is still good stuff being made, just as some companies prosper in
a depression, but the overall industry is really stale.

It never stays that way for long though.

~~~
tricky
You are completely wrong. Music isn't in a rut. You are. Find someone who is
into new music, ask some questions, borrow some albums, and really give it a
chance. You'll be shocked at what you are missing just because you believe
there's nothing good out there.

~~~
mattmaroon
No, music is in a rut. I listen to plenty of new (or new to me) stuff via
services like Pandora and Rhapsody. Most genres have gone completely stale.
Hip hop is pretty much retreading the exact same territory once again. Rock's
become largely cliche, with most of the good material being put out by bands
that have been popular since I was in middle school. It's just a down cycle.
It happens.

Recorded sales and concert attendance, as well as just turning on your radio,
seem to indicate this. 2008's concert attendance was slightly down, and the
top 10 acts were all ancient. In order Bon Jovi, Springsteen, Madonna, The
Police, Celine Dion, Kenny Chesney, Neil Diamond, Spice Girls, Eagles, and
Rascall Flats. With one exception they're either country (which has been in a
rut for 30 years) or older than me.

That's a genuine rut my friend. The wheels are spinning but nobody's going
anywhere.

~~~
GavinB
It might be more accurate to describe it as a rut _for you_. I don't mean that
as an insult, it's okay if you just don't like what you hear.

If you're looking for "the cool new things" that are happening, I definitely
wouldn't look at the Top 10 in concert attendance.

Given, we're not going to invent distorted electric guitar or precision audio
editing again. But really, do we define great music as having a "sound" that's
obviously jarring? Great music has been produced for centuries with the same
old orchestral instruments--to the uninitiated, it all sounds pretty much the
same.

~~~
mattmaroon
Given record sales and concert attendance, it would be more accurate to say
that music isn't in a rut for you.

~~~
GavinB
Since we're talking about a subjective judgment, sure.

We're in the midst of a major revolution in music distribution. While revenues
are down, people are listening to more music than ever before, and getting
more choice in what they can listen to. Thanks to a new generation raised on
guitar hero and rock band, I predict that things are going to get even crazier
very soon.

If you define a rut as "not undergoing mainstream stylistic revolution" then
sure, we're in a rut.

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aston
Autotune is just another tool in the producer's toolkit. And by tool, I really
mean instrument. Like any instrument, you can't just use it and automatically
make a blockbuster hit. People have tried...

Good music is good music, no matter how it's made, and I have a lot of respect
for someone like T-Pain who's basically single-handedly proved that Autotune
can provide powerful emotional effect in songs. I also have no problem with
helping pop stars sing better, on albums and in live performances. I prefer
the best product for my bucks, if at all possible. I trust a producer like
Rick Rubin to know when to employ what techniques to a record to maximize my
enjoyment.

~~~
coglethorpe
What I found interesting is that it was the way the tool was used differently
than the investor's intention that made it so popular.

~~~
parenthesis
That is not uncommon in the history of music technology.

For example, the Roland TB-303 "was originally marketed to guitarists for bass
accompaniment while practicing alone" [Wikipedia]. But what we got from it —
in the end — was acid house.

The vocoder was originally developed with telecommunications applications in
mind, not Kraftwerk.

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michaelneale
Yes - I used AutoTune in recordings back in 1999/2000 - it was available as a
DirectX plugin even then (I was one of the rebels who used Ensoniq paris for
its superior musical instrament like qualities, unlike the now dominant thug
"pro tools") - even on low end processors then it was practical to do it
almost real time (and in any case, often I would just draw the graph of where
the notes were meant to be).

Once you did that a bit, you started to hear it everywhere. So I would put it
at about 2000/1999 when I stopped hearing bum notes in pop songs on the radio.

As a fond example, listen to the Red Hot Chilli Peppers "under the bridge" - a
MASSIVE hit in the early 90s, most of the notes are flat. Can you imagine that
song being a hit like that now in that form?

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pjf
BTW, Melodyne [1] does this plus some more jaw-dropping tricks.

[1] <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFCjv4_jqAY>

~~~
likpok
Melodyne is pretty crazy. Some of the changes lead to weird results (if you
jump to far with vocals), but still pretty cool.

~~~
ssharp
I think the latest version Melodyne is absolutely amazing.

A lot of amateur composing/producing on computers is heavily restricted by a
relatively basic set of tools. While the tools may have deeper option sets,
hobbyists may take years to discover them. It's rare that a program comes
along which allows you to have in infinite amount of sounds to choose from and
allows anyone to think of creative ways to recycle existing recordings. When
the program is as easy to use as Melodyne, it gives a lot of power to the
amateur.

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tlrobinson
Auto-Tune being abused: Why every Kanye West and T-Pain song sounds completely
ridiculous.

It was kind of neat the first few times, now it's just annoying.

~~~
pkaler
When referring to Kanye West, I'm assuming you mean 808s and Heartbreaks.
Auto-Tune was used as an instrument on that album. That's what the original
article alludes too. The vocals are supposed to contrast with the super, lofi,
YouTubeyness of the background music.

This completely the opposite of Kanye West's past work all the way back to
Jay-Z's Blueprint album.

One big critique of Auto-Tune is that it kills emotion by making pitch too
perfect.

You can't say this about 808s and Heartbreaks. The album sounds like nails on
a chalkboard. And it's supposed to. The album was created in the context of
him breaking up with his fiance and his mother dying.

You can call Kanye West a lot of things, but disingenuous is not one of them.
The use of Auto-Tune wasn't meant to be disingenuous in this one particular
case.

(I can't believe I just deconstructed a Kanye West album on Hacker News.)

~~~
tlrobinson
Ok, fair enough. Every Kanye West song I've heard recently.

It's an interesting sound, it's just overused recently. There's basically two
ways to use Auto-Tune: the intended way, cleaning up the pitch of vocals; and
as a deliberate distortion effect, a la T-Pain / Kanye's recent songs. The
latter produces a very distinct sound that gets old, fast.

~~~
kyro
The 'deliberate distortion effect,' that's apparently not the intended way to
use Auto-Tune, has been used as a vocal effect for decades now, not
specifically with Auto-Tune but with instruments like the TokBox and vocoders.

Thing is, people say it gets old because they think that all voices filtered
through Auto-Tune sound the same, but that's not true. Kanye's voice through
Auto-Tune sounds a lot different than T-Pain's, and you have to be talented to
make it sound good. Can it be a cheesy effect? Absolutely. But if tuned
correctly, can really add a cold, robotic color to a track.

Personally, I love it. Kanye uses differently than T-Pain and they are very
distinct styles I enjoy.

It's a damn fun thing to play around with, too. :P

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biohacker42
I like The White Stripes a lot, but I've heard a few live performances, and...
is it just me or is Jack not able to hit the right pitch to save his life?

~~~
coglethorpe
There's a lot more to The White Stripes than singing in tune. :-) Coldplay
lead singer Chris Martin said it pretty well on his "60 Minutes" interview. He
said that enthusiasm counted for a lot, more than in his singing, which was
decidedly off in the clips of him playing live that ran during the interview.

The Stripes have a whole package, from their brother/sister husband/wife
pairing, to the goth vibe, to the artsy videos. Somehow they hit on something
that people like, even if it's out of tune.

~~~
biohacker42
Holy crap, I think we just found a way to link Chris Martin (Coldplay) and
Jeff Atwood (Coding Horror)!

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wave
You can hear it on the following video how Auto-Tune can make anyone sign like
a pop star:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpu6C70WROM>

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froo
Oh great, yet another reason to hate the Oil Industry.

Without Autocorrelation there would be no Auto Tune. Without Auto Tune we
wouldn't have to suffer the music of Britney Spears.

Andy Hildebrand.. you've just made my list sir.

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tricky
If you want to play with this, fire up GarageBand and check out the AUPitch
effect. (make a real music track, then look in the track info, go to Vocal
effects and try "Male Basic with pitch")

~~~
tricky
wait, no, it isn't AUPitch... There's a slider there that says, "enhance
tuning" that is similar to auto-tune. sars.

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Dilpil
I'm not sure it makes sense to be concerned with whether or not a song was
made by a singer or an engineer, or about anything besides the song itself for
that matter.

~~~
Jebdm
Well, it does make live shows more difficult.

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tricky
A lot of performers run auto-tune real time when they play live. I got to sit
behind the board when a friend of mine ran sound for nsync. He let me hear the
signal before it went thru the autotune box. hi-larious.

~~~
electromagnetic
The thing is, when you pay $50+ for a ticket you're paying for talented
artist... I suppose the engineer should be considered the artist not the
'singer'.

~~~
tricky
I saw a band called "Metrostation" a few months ago. The place was sold out
with tweens who were having the time of their life loving this amazing band.

Funny thing was, the band was not playing. Everything was tracked on 2 macs
run by a chubby guy in a phillies hat on the side of the stage.

I'd argue the majority of people who go to these shows have no clue and will
gladly pay their $50 just to see famous people and tell their friends.

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pxlpshr
Auto-tune has been in use for a long time, I guess America is finally waking
up to its pop-u-liciuos facade? Lets hope so. MTV ruined music when they made
presentation more important than sound.

Music was great in the past-time because radio was the mass-medium and sound
doesn't discriminate against physical characteristics that would otherwise
make one unattractive for marketing.

~~~
dag
Remember that The Monkees predated MTV.

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pxlpshr
How many years has it been since there was a blind or deaf musician on top
charts? :)

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inglorian
A deaf musician? I can think of several blind musicians off the top of my
head, but barring Beethoven (and only at the end of his life) I can think of
no deaf ones, ever. Seems entirely contradictory, no?

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LogicHoleFlaw
[http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20...](http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051013/REVIEWS/51011001/1023)

This is Ebert's review of _Touch the Sound_ , which is a documentary about a
deaf percussionist.

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DanielBMarkham
Extremely cool stuff.

So -- looking at this and Melodyne (see other comment) let's extrapolate to
see where the technology is heading.

It's Guitar Hero, except for real guitars. You and your friends play (hack) as
best you can hit songs, along with vocals. The computer "adjusts" both the
instrument and vocal performances to put you on-time and on-key.

Heck, I'd pay money for that. It'd be awesome.

~~~
kirse
<http://guitarrising.com/>

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c00p3r
Does anyone developing a plug-in for the asterisk or other PBX or something?
=)

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mynameishere
That was embarrassing to read. Auto-tune is obvious and atrocious. The
journalist in question has got to be tone deaf.

~~~
gabrielroth
It sounds obvious when the settings are turned up really high and it's used as
a pronounced, deliberately artificial effect, as in T-Pain and Kanye West and
that one Cher song. Used at gentler settings, it can be almost completely
transparent.

I'm willing to bet you've heard it used both ways, and on the first ones
you've thought 'obvious and atrocious,' and on the others you haven't noticed
it at all.

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mynameishere
I notice it on almost every top 40 song. It's absolutely shameful that a
professional would need it as a crutch.

~~~
parenthesis
But almost every top 40 song isn't _music_ by a _musician_ , but
_entertainment_ (of which music is only one component) by an _industry_ (of
which the "artist" is but one small, though highly visible, part).

