
Catastrophic flooding in Houston - r721
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2017/08/27/catastrophic-flooding-underway-in-houston-as-harvey-lingers-over-texas/
======
fuzzfactor
A large portion of the labor engine of one of the most significant industrial
cities has been halted indefinitely.

Naturally, there are almost no employers operating and no way for employees to
get to work anyway.

Once the water recedes there will still be an unprecedented number of
formerly-paying jobs that can not be returned to for an unexpectedly long time
if ever.

At the exact time that there will be an unprecedented number of people who
have lost everything, including their homes, and a lot of these are the same
people.

So many that could not afford to miss a paycheck under ordinary conditions.

Until further notice the city will not only be running on stored resources,
but primarily the availability of stored resources.

What amounts to the wealth of a rural nation will need to effectively stream
into Houston merely to sustain it until industrial recovery can establish
momentum.

Shortages relative to the amount of wealth ordinarily generated by Houston on
a daily basis will only exacerbate the difficulty.

------
superqd
I live in Houston, well, just outside of it, and it's very not fun. Some
friends of mine have reported flooding in their homes, and lost power. I live
in a new area and the neighborhood is built up several feet higher than the
surrounding plain - just enough that I've been lucky so far (no flooding in my
neighborhood and still have power). I've seen pics posted by friends of the
area where our office is downtown, and everything is underwater.

------
fuzzfactor
Hurricane hits Corpus on Friday.

Starts raining in Houston about 10 pm Saturday night.

Devastated by midnight:

[https://www.harriscountyfws.org/GageDetail/Index/920?span=24...](https://www.harriscountyfws.org/GageDetail/Index/920?span=24%20Hours&v=rainfall)

Not just historic but nearly prehistoric since it already exceeds the 500-year
level.

First 24 hours not yet elapsed.

Still raining.

Overall conditions in Houston & Pasadena already worse than the direct hit by
Ike.

Or Alicia or Alison.

~~~
lyndonjohnsonbe
For the gulf coast, because of the way hurricanes rotate, the northern eastern
side (or right side) always comes out worst. They get the most amount of fresh
clouds coming from the warm water, while the south western end gets the clouds
that had already expended a lot of energy overland.

It is crazy that this storm is putting the 1900 storm to shame.

------
enraged_camel
Before the hurricane of 1900, Galveston, TX was the largest metropolitan area
west of the Mississippi.

After the hurricane... yeah.

It's still difficult to judge the full scale of Harvey's damage, but major
roads and bridges are starting to collapse, which means it will be incredibly
difficult to even bring in supplies and equipment to start rebuilding.

Houston, the fourth most populous city in the United States, will not recover
from this for months.

~~~
cylinder
Haven't seen any reports of major roads collapsing. Bridges? There are no
major bridges in Houston.

America has a knack of encouraging people to move to completely unsustainable
places and not planning for the growth at all.

~~~
enraged_camel
>>Haven't seen any reports of major roads collapsing.

[https://twitter.com/RosenbergPolice/status/90183365789111910...](https://twitter.com/RosenbergPolice/status/901833657891119104)

You gotta realize Houston is basically built on clay. Once the clay is washed
away, like what is happening now, many buildings and lots of infrastructure
will collapse.

~~~
cylinder
Sure. But I thought everyone living in Houston was aware of this risk? How do
you live there without knowing this? Most of these outer areas are full of
people constantly harping on about the government staying the hell out of
their business, but will now beg for federal help and financial bailouts for
the uninsured.

And before anyone calls me a Yankee snob... Born and raised in Houston and our
house flooded many times in the last decade. It gets worse because they keep
allowing massive paving and megablock development with no regard for
environmental planning. Most of the residents love this as the city hates
zoning, regulations, and people love the growth from development and
population growth. It's one of the most environmentally disrespectful places
in the world and then they freak out when they remember Nature exists.

You should see the massive parking lots they created on what was just green
fields, for so called "power centers" (HEB, Costco, etc). Instead of requiring
garages to be built instead on a smaller footprint and reserving the rest for
a reservoir, they allow any development because they can only compete by being
as cheap as possible for everything, and that would increase development
costs! So now we get more flooding in residential areas. And I haven't even
started on the massive cooling costs of these ridiculously oversized
buildings, the carbon from the SUVs being driven everywhere, the heat island
effect of the massive concrete parking lots (which are not required to have
covers or trees planted over them ...),the quarter mile wide I10. But Texans
love this lifestyle! They reap what they sow. "pray for Texas y'all!" Yeah
that'll do it!

Unfortunately, in the classic American tradition, the east side of Houston
(poorest) will get hardest by the rest of this, while the wealthier west side
appears to be okay.

~~~
rhizome
This isn't the time for that.

~~~
cylinder
This is the best time for it. We are online and not in Houston so not like I
can help them anyways. People need to live in tune with nature, not ignore it
for short term monetary gain. Eventually places like Phoenix, Vegas, Miami,
etc will face reckoning too.

~~~
rhizome
So, "whaddya expect?" is the best response?

 _People need to live in tune with nature, not ignore it for short term
monetary gain._

Amazing, I wonder why nobody thought of this before.

UPDATE: "There will inevitably be extreme hottakes regarding flood planning
and monday-morning QB-ing of officials. This is for context":
[https://twitter.com/CorbettMatt/status/901959336850804737](https://twitter.com/CorbettMatt/status/901959336850804737)

------
aaron-lebo
They're saying this could be the worst disaster in state history.

It already looks like New Orleans after Katrina:

[https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/901818498908905472](https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/901818498908905472)

What's worse is it's forecast to head back out into the gulf and drop rain on
the region until it makes landfall at Houston (possibly as a cat 1) on
Thursday. Several of the major dams/reservoirs are already at capacity and
we've got another 20-30 inches of rain.

It's like worst case scenario.

 _It is estimated an additional 24 to 30 inches of rain can fall in Houston
metro area, on top of what has already fallen by next Thursday. I cannot
overstate enough how much I hope that model is wrong, on that value._

[https://www.reddit.com/r/houston/comments/6wbo8t/live_hurric...](https://www.reddit.com/r/houston/comments/6wbo8t/live_hurricane_harvey_live_megathread_day_4/dm794al/?context=3)

Get ready, because the next few decades are gonna look like this.

~~~
emmelaich
> Get ready, because the next few decades are gonna look like this.

Probably not.[1]

And thinking as a lay person, storm intensity is governed by _differences_ in
temperature, not absolute rises is it not? In fact one might expect lower
intensity, since the poles will warm by more than the equator.

[1] > _there is a small nominally positive upward trend in tropical storm
occurrence from 1878-2006. But statistical tests reveal that this trend is so
small, relative to the variability in the series, that it is not significantly
distinguishable from zero_

[https://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/historical-atlantic-hurricane-
and-...](https://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/historical-atlantic-hurricane-and-tropical-
storm-records/)

~~~
gdubs
While the storm hit with the highest category in a decade, it's not the
intensity that's the problem here - it's that the storm is just parked and not
moving anywhere, continuing to dump rain.

~~~
emmelaich
OK, from that same link, regarding _landfalling_ hurricanes.

    
    
       "... U.S. landfalling hurricanes, which even
       show a slight *negative* trend beginning from
       1900 or from the late 1800s ..."
    

My emphasis on negative.

------
21
It seems to me that this Houston flooding was a bit unexpected.

Is that an accurate statement? Were there warnings before? Were the models
particularly bad at predicting rainfall?

~~~
r721
This tweet was posted just before landfall:

[https://twitter.com/NWSHouston/status/901243650532945921](https://twitter.com/NWSHouston/status/901243650532945921)

------
altotrees
My girlfriend's sister lives there and works at an oil refinery as an
engineer. All production has been halted and plant shut down. She hasn't been
able to leave the house in a few days, but says people are still trying to
drive.

If I'm correct, they only predicted a smaller amount of rain and now have
this. I hope everyone stays safe.

------
lightcatcher
Question: How much impact would Harvey levels of rainfall have had on
2013-2016 California drought?

~~~
chrisper
Too much rain at once is bad. Even in a drought. Actually, it's pretty bad.
Dried out grounds cannot absorb water very fast (in that quantity), so it
usually results in a lot of issues and mud slides.

------
banned1
Gov. Abbot encouraged folks to leave two days before the hurricane hit.
Probably good advice then but not today. Mayor Turner is saying to stay put.
Probably best advice now since it is too late to move.

Remember: follow no politician's recommendation, it's best to assume and
prepare as if YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN because YOU ARE.

As usual, the people who get hurt are the most disadvantaged ones, and those
who trust the government will come to save you and fix your problems. So look
out for the elderly and your neighbors and do the best you think to keep you
and your families safe.

~~~
thecodefoundry
Gov. Abbott contradicted local officials with his off-the-cuff suggestion
people in Houston should flee. Metro Houston is 6.5M+ people. Where would they
evac to? San Antonio and Austin were already swamped with people from
Victoria, Corpus Christi and further south evacuating there under _mandatory_
evac notifications. I45 to Dallas in no feasible way could handle 6.5M people
fleeing. I was here when hurricane Rita came through and everyone evac'd. More
people died on highways evacuating days before the hurricane made landfall
than those died because of the hurricane.

Majority of people in metro Houston have power and while the flooding is
catastrophic (exceeding 500 and 1000yr flood levels), the fatalities have been
less than a handful (at the moment). Houstonians and Texans are coming to each
other's aid, helping with rescues, etc. Even the Cajun Navy is coming in to
help.

Edited: I completely agree with your sentiment about not waiting for the govt.
Resources are already strained and even if they were willing, many
roads/highways are completely impassable at the moment.

~~~
Digory
I understand that resources are limited. In my city, you'd just evacuate
certain areas, rather than the whole metro area, but I'll assume Houston made
its decision in good faith based on data. Hopefully, the death toll stays low.

If I were a citizen, though, I would have liked to know last week or month
that Houston is too big to evacuate. No matter how bad it gets, that call
won't come, apparently. We're used to evac orders in dangerous storms, and
calibrate our plans accordingly. I want a government that admits "its on you,"
rather than knowing the government will choose to misinform me when it hits
the fan. I am seeing people with a day or two of medicine, not a week or
month, etc. A warning that no warning will come might have made a difference
there.

~~~
stephenhuey
I was here in town for both Rita (the storm that "didn't happen" that put 3
million people on the road at once) and also Ike. Lots of rescues have been
needed but that number is tiny compared to the population of Houston. Your
suggestion to evacuate certain areas doesn't work here--there'd be far too
many areas. Houstonians are generally knowledgable about staying safe in a
storm such as this, and evacuations have often led to avoidable deaths and
other problems in the past. I've been sitting in the middle of the city for
days and I'm with the local officials on this one, not the governor.

------
banned1
Help a family:

[https://www.gofundme.com/a54hv-renteria-
family](https://www.gofundme.com/a54hv-renteria-family)

Started here:
[https://twitter.com/abc13houston/status/901798264474927104](https://twitter.com/abc13houston/status/901798264474927104)

------
blondie9x
Please please please help fight climate change. Stand up get mad. Fight the
system. Do everything you can to fight the fossil fuel industry and save Earth
for our posterity.

~~~
kobeya
... you do know that hurricanes happen every year? And always have?

~~~
blondie9x
They are worsening because of climate change. You know it and I know it.

------
random_comment
Turns out simply wishing people good luck and asserting everything is going to
be fine [1] is a poor substitute for extreme weather monitoring / defence /
preparation / response [2].

Who knew?

[1] [http://www.chron.com/news/houston-
weather/hurricaneharvey/ar...](http://www.chron.com/news/houston-
weather/hurricaneharvey/article/Trump-Texans-Hurricane-Harvey-good-
luck-11961112.php)

Trump: "Good luck to everybody. They're gonna be safe. Good luck to everybody.
Good luck."

[2] [https://newrepublic.com/minutes/144555/trump-says-good-
luckb...](https://newrepublic.com/minutes/144555/trump-says-good-luckbut-
heres-policies-hurt-hurricane-readiness))

"Over the last seven months, the president has both proposed and implemented
numerous policies that surround hurricane preparedness, readiness, and
response. Here are some of them:..."

~~~
aaron-lebo
This really doesn't have anything to do with him. This is a once in a lifetime
event. Could we wait to make it political until after it is over?

~~~
chrisper
Hurricanes (or natural disasters) are one in a lifetime event?

~~~
r721
>During the peak of the flooding on Saturday night, the National Weather
Service in Houston issued an apocalyptically worded “Flash Flood Emergency for
Life-Threatening Catastrophic Flooding.” That kind of warning wasn’t a thing
before Harvey, which just adds emphasis to the unique risk this storm poses.

>The event is so rare, that even the NWS is unsure of what will happen next.
In a chilling follow-up tweet on Sunday, the NWS said “this event is
unprecedented & all impacts are unknown & beyond anything experienced.”

[http://grist.org/briefly/harvey-dealt-houston-
catastrophic-f...](http://grist.org/briefly/harvey-dealt-houston-catastrophic-
flooding-and-its-not-over-yet/)

~~~
chrisper
Yes, but just because it happened for the first time now it won't happen
anytime soon again? Maybe not next year, but really lifetime rare? I think
it's better to prepare and it not happening than not prepare because it's just
a once in a lifetime thing.

They even say it isnt sure what's going to happen next. So you can't say now
that it is a once in a lifetime thing.

~~~
MBCook
In someways isn't this the governments job? It's very easy for people to plan
for things that happen every year or two, one of the things the government is
capable of doing is looking further ahead than normal people will getting
ready for THAT.

------
Markoff
how is this hacker news? can we report on any flood or natural disaster event
outside US as well, some people really are self-centered convinced about their
importance...

~~~
aaron-lebo
You are welcome to do that, you are not welcome to mock the people who are
losing their houses, possessions, and lives right now. Jerk.

~~~
Stratoscope
I sympathize with how you feel about that (and with the people in Texas, of
course). But the personal insult really isn't helpful.

