
Proof School - nikhilarundesai
http://www.proofschool.org/
======
btilly
Sorry, but this is the worst designed website I've been forced through for a
while.

Takes forever to load. Unreadable until loaded. Once loaded there is very
little content per page. Except the one giving bios, which is unreadable
because all of the usual methods of scrolling jump to the following page
rather than scrolling smoothly.

Any technical parents with kids in the right age are simply not going to read
this. And if they do read it, they will be left with no idea what it is and
whether it is useful. (I say "they" because my kids are still too young.)

~~~
nlh
I hate to pile on, but perhaps the site creators are reading this and can get
some constructive feedback on site improvement:

At least on my iPad (Chrome), I viewed the site and simply scrolled down to
the bottom. After that, I had to click the back button 4 or 5 times to get
back to HN. That is seriously broken from a usability standpoint. The act of
scrolling should never trigger hard URL changes. If you're going to design a
single-page, scrollable website (which can be great), you have to make sure
the user can go back to where they came from with a single Back action.

~~~
dfguo
Hi, Dafeng from Strikingly here. We've fixed the issue. Thanks for the
suggestion.

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fmstephe
This looks like a wonderful initiative. I hope they succeed, I always have
hope that we it is possible to offer some alternative to our mainstream
education, which can be painful if you fall outside of the mainstream.

As a side note it's also really lovely to read something uplifting here on HN.
I am not asking to stop featuring PRISM stories etc., they are very important.
But it seems easy to forget that there are bunches of smart curious people
around who yearn to learn and to teach interesting things. Thank god for them
:)

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thesteamboat
I'd love to see this get off the ground. Unfortunately, it's really vague what
`this' is right now. Is this a high school replacement? Is this a summer camp?
Is it a boarding school? All I can tell are that some legitimately awesome
math people want to make another cool math thing.

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glennos
"DOWNTOWN SF. 2015. QED."

As far as I know, this isn't an appropriate use of QED.

~~~
eru
And among actual mathematicians the Halmos tombstone is more popular nowadays,
anyway. It feels less haughty.

~~~
proofschool
The proof school graphic logo incorporates a halmos - and creates a stand-
alone "squaring the circle" logo for the site favicon, for example.

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rajamaja
No. Just no. I am a math graduate student. I did my undergrad in India where
curriculum is specialized and rigid. Long story short, I learned only
mathematics. I am very good at math, but now I regret learning more CS topics.
I feel like specializing too early can lead to a pretty unhappy life ahead for
some.

A better idea would be to start specialized science schools for over-achieving
kids. oh. wait. that's already done.

~~~
eru
For me CS was part of math. But I see what you mean.

You might enjoy Tom Korner's book, The Pleasure of Counting, which weaves
mathematics and history.

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makmanalp
I think this is great to encourage math based education and to give kids
something to aspire to. I know a lot of kids who did "math camp" who also
credit that as giving them an impulse to learn more.

But I think the same problem that elite colleges face also exists here: If
your school's graduates are the cream of the crop of your society / field, is
it because your education caused them to be or is it because you selected the
cream of the crop to begin with?

So, I'd like to hijack this thread to focus your attention on another
tangentially related problem: Teaching people who don't self-identify as "math
kids". I think these are the low hanging fruit that, if improved, would
improve society as a whole.

What I often see with people who say "I can't do math" is a shaky
understanding of true basics. Kids will cross-multiply an equation to simplify
it but they won't know why they're doing it or why it works. Then, they'll
pass tests because they can do the basic algorithm. Now they think they know
it and their teachers think they know it, and they move on to a different
subject. Conceptually, the new stuff piles on top of the old stuff and so they
have no hope of understanding what is going on, OR they further the "see
question type x, apply algorithm y" mentality until it collapses.

So, I'd love to see a "learn math the hard way" where people can iteratively
learn the fundamentals of arithmetic, algebra, and basic proofs. What I love
about that series is that it's iterative to a fault. Every section is tens of
experiments with a very simple concept. What if I use it this way? What if I
stick in a string? What if I spell it wrong?

It teaches concepts at a slow enough pace that anyone can catch a conceptual
leap that'd otherwise be undecipherable and confusing to beginners. It teaches
that experimental mindset. It can get boring if you already know that part,
but you can skip it if you like.

The part that I don't know what to do about is when you fast forward 10 years
and you try to correct faulty education, and people balk at you for teaching
them "easy stuff they already know" and not the more complicated topic that
they're currently concerned with.

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dnautics
it's funny, I was thinking just today, if I could restructure undergraduate
science education, but strictly to cater to students with elite science
potential, how would I do it?

1) Students must take an online entrance exam prior to arriving, there are two
very difficult 20 minute questions in select fields (mechanics, e&m, wave
mechanics, molecular bio, cell bio, chemistry, logic, algebra, calculus,
theoretical CS) that test cognitive potential (not straight facts), e.g. for
chemistry chemistry, "imagine that electrons could have spin state +1/2, 0,
and -1/2\. Describe some chemical properties of the first twelve elements."
You must pass 2/3 non-math categories and logic + 1 math category.

2) Upon arrival, there are no seminars. Students must attend classes for
subjects they did not pass. Classes consist of weekly close readings of
relevant historical papers, group study encouraged (this would be good for the
professors, too). Deficiencies can be corrected by online resources and
getting help from friends (co-teaching). Professors would be encouraged to
coordinate topics so that material would be repeated from week to week.

3) First year students would be required to apprentice in the labs of subjects
they are NOT interested in studying. I.E you declare "ochem or bio", and spend
your first year apprenticing in physics or pchem. Second year students begin
apprenticeships in labs they might want to work for, and in third and fourth
year students work full time in lab.

4) School runs an enrichment math-and-science focussed 'prep boarding high
school' exclusively for underprivileged students. Classes are primarily taught
by undergrads and grad students with supervision from professional educators.

5) Other courses required: philosophy of science, a half year of literature, a
half year of history, and two years of practical computer programming (which
could be exempted by a gruelling proficiency exam).

6) students are required to (and given a stipend to) achieve mastery in one
non-scientific pursuit. This could include: literature, foreign language,
social or artistic dance, visual arts, etc.

7) professors would be required to take the exams, allowed to fail any of the
exams, except those in their own subject, when they start but, would be
required to attend one class a year to be able to solve an exam previously
failed. They get three tries.

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summerlunch
Bit of a stretch, but when I read the title, I thought it was going to be a
satire about how the main functions of schools now days seems to be social
proof and nothing else (PROOF school!).

Pretty much anything you learn in school, you can learn on your own or with a
much cheaper tutor. We only go to school so that we can say we have a
'background' on a subject, when really, we went to class hungover or slept
through the passionless lectures. The real learning happened in the library
when we read the textbooks ourselves.

Kind of what the Soylent guy is going through. He probably knows a lot about
biology and human physiology from self-teaching, but because he 'doesn't have
a background' (i.e. didn't sit through 4 years of ineffective lectures),
society doesn't give him any credibility. I wonder if there is another way we
can scale 'proof' without having to go through that waste of time we call
college.

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ekm2
If you have been interested in math contests in middle and high school,you
will clearly recognize the star calibre of some people on that page.I believe
this is quite similar to Art of Problem Solving(AoPS).[1]

[http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/](http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/)

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dominotw
I wish we could stop propagating this silly "math kid", "non math person"
memes. I've seen so many smart people buying into this bogus idea of 'math
kid' and dropping out of studying math bases fields of study thinking that
they are not a 'math kid'

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moocowduckquack
I hate to say it, but proofschool is a really bad name for this.

Thinking back to being a kid, I would not like to tell my peer group that I
was going to proofschool, as the obvious mockery available from that name
would be merciless.

~~~
zhemao
I don't think there is a way to tell your 7th grade peers you are going to a
math camp for the summer that wouldn't end in mockery.

~~~
moocowduckquack
I still think that names for things like this should be run past a focus group
of bullies to see which ones should be avoided.

Proofschool only needs to drop an r to become an abusive taunt while still
sounding very similar to the original. It is a linguistic gift to your average
bully.

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fouc
What's this "for kids" tripe? I thought this was going to be a dev bootcamp-
style math school for adults, now that would be nice!

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proofschool
Quick response from Proof School co-founder:

Can't comment on all the critiques here, but thank you for them, especially
those intended to be constructive--the board of directors and advisory board
members will consider some of points made here. If you haven't already, I
encourage you to check out who's supporting Proof School. We are fortunate to
have their backing and advice.

First, to user interface... the pitch deck format of the current website is
meant more as a landing page to pique curiosity and to solicit interest--it
will change to a more familiar UX soon. Apologies if it's slow or glitchy--
we're working on it. Go easy, guys!

Let me tell you a little more about Proof School, opening to students in 2015.
The mission of the school is to attract students who self-identify as "math
kids"\--it will not be easy to get in. We're looking for kids who may not see
their peers except at summer math camps or at math circles, Julia Robinson
Math Festivals, or math and CS events/contests at universities, MSRI and AIM
during the school year, kids whose friends (some, at least) will wish they
could go to Proof School, too, because the name says it all and they get it,
kids who at 11, 12, 13, 14 are doing college and graduate level mathematics...
and want to do it with kids and adults like them all year round, not just once
in a while. These math kids are out there, and the response from them, their
parents and other adult "math kids" who wish they'd had a Proof School when
they were growing up is, frankly, massive. Here's our mission statement: PROOF
SCHOOL WILL OFFER AN UNRIVALED EDUCATION TO YOUNG PEOPLE WHO EXCEL AT AND HAVE
A PASSION FOR MATHEMATICS WHILE EQUIPPING THEM WITH KNOWLEDGE, SKILLS AND
CHARACTER FOR SUCCESS IN LIFE.

Proof School will be elite but not elitist; no one who qualifies will be
turned away because of financial need. It can also not only be about math: we
will be offering a complete, UC A-G accredited curriculum, plus an explicit
social/emotional learning (SEL) and mindfulness program, and partnering with
some of the finest educational and cultural programs the Bay Area has to offer
so that we educate the whole child. Math and CS will in some ways be the easy
part, with teachers, professors, visiting instructors and peers teaching and
learning from each other all in the mix. By contrast, we've identified the
need to recruit the best teachers and academic leaders in the arts, hard
sciences and humanities as our most pressing need going forward.

What more can I tell you... We're launching a "Math Community Hub" in downtown
SF in 2014 to get us in synch with academic and admissions calendars, pulling
together all people interested in math at all levels. There's lots more, but I
won't be able to respond to more comments here on HN (I've got a school to
build!). If you'd like to add your great ideas to our efforts, please send me
an email at ibrown[at]proofschool.org. Also, please have a look at William
Thurston's paper "On Proofs and Progress in Mathematics" here--just great:
[http://arxiv.org/pdf/math/9404236v1.pdf](http://arxiv.org/pdf/math/9404236v1.pdf)

Many thanks for the feedback, Ian

