
With the three hottest global months on record, is it now time to stop flying? - harwoodleon
Flying is one of the human activities that we don&#x27;t have to do and is a big climate change factor. So with worrying climate news delivered and scientists freaking out at the sharp rise in tempreatures, should&#x2F;could you stop?
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hackuser
> Flying is one of the human activities that we don't have to do

I think this needs to be approached as a matter of degree, not a blanket
statement. Some flying saves lives directly: Medical evacs, the military, etc.
Some is worthwhile. The question is, where do we draw the line?

Is it worth it for climate scientists to fly to a conference that will
accelerate progress on climate change? Is it worth it for someone to fly to
see their elderly parents? To woo someone they are likely to marry, providing
a lifetime bond for two people, and possibly making new people? To fly to the
Olympics as a spectator? For what purposes is telepresence a sufficient
substitute?

I think the threshold should be raised much higher and climate change needs to
be addressed as a crisis. Even people who believe the science seem to not
quite embrace the changes that need to be made; there is a lack of leadership
setting new standards and telling people the hard facts: When is flying
worthwhile? This study of this question, and many others like it, should be
mature and well-known and not a relatively novel idea on HN.

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paulcole
If influencing climate change is the main goal, aren't saving lives and making
new people two of the worst things to do?

If people are the cause of climate change, then fewer people seems like the
best solution, no?

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J-dawg
This is the problem with any suggestion that we voluntarily limit our carbon-
emitting activities. If we take the argument to its logical conclusion, we
should all stop reproducing altogether.

It's the 'dead great-grandfather principle' [0]:

 _" He’s much greener than you, you cannot compete with that. If you move into
a smaller apartment, your grandfather is in a very, very small apartment. It’s
underground, there’s no lighting, there’s no heating, he doesn’t have any
broadband."_

I don't disagree with you or the parent comment at all, I absolutely believe
that we should be limiting our carbon emissions. But at its core this is a
philosophical problem as much as a scientific one. To what extent do we have
the 'right' to change the climate? Should we have a per-person carbon
allowance? A global one child policy?

[0] [http://www.wired.com/2011/02/transcript-of-
reboot-11-speech-...](http://www.wired.com/2011/02/transcript-of-
reboot-11-speech-by-bruce-sterling-25-6-2009/)

~~~
hackuser
> To what extent do we have the 'right' to change the climate?

It may not be a very novel question. What right do we have to pollute our
environment? I can't emit lead from my car, or toxic vapors from my home or
workplace. Greenhouse gasses are just more gassous pollutants among many
others.

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chatmasta
"Stop flying" is, to say the least, an extreme measure. Especially when there
are so many other things you can stop that have at least as much impact on the
environment (i.e., consuming beef). I also take issue with your statement that
"flying is one of the human activities that we don't have to do."

Flight connects foreign countries and unites cultures. A hundred years ago,
you would never experience a remote island in the pacific, and there would
certainly not be an international tourist industry on that island. But flying
makes it possible to go through a door, sit down for 18 hours, and emerge in a
completely different part of the world, surrounded by a totally new culture.
You benefit from that, and so does the culture you visit. Even if the
economics are asymmetrical, such that you can visit the island but the
islanders cannot visit you, at least you can provide a window for them to
experience your culture in the same way you experience theirs.

With literally _any_ culture in the world available to you at a moment's
notice, flying promotes the idea that we are all one species, one people, one
family. The importance of this cannot be understated. Learning about other
cultures allows you to empathize with them, to see them as fellow humans
instead of some hypothetical out-group. Flying turns the world into a global
cultural melting pot, instead of a disjoint collection of conflicting groups.

The importance of this cannot be understated. Globalization, for all its
problems, is primarily a uniting force, and certainly one that promotes world
peace. The more you learn about your fellow Earthlings, the more you
experience other cultures, the more you realize that _human culture_ is one
unified work of art, and to harm one is to harm them all.

So no, flying is not something that "we don't have to do." It is, quite
literally, one of the primary forces contributing to relative world peace.

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NumberCruncher
>> With the three hottest global months on record...

Maybe your record is just too short. Sometimes size matters:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_temperature_record#/m...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_temperature_record#/media/File:All_palaeotemps.svg)

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J-dawg
What are the low-carbon alternatives for long-distance travel?

For overland travel, I guess we already know the answer: High speed electric
trains and electric cars / buses (which will eventually become self-driving),
with the power being generated by renewables/nuclear.

For travelling over oceans, it's much more difficult. Are there any realistic
concepts out there? A new generation of sailing ships?

It's really disappointing to see the lack of political leadership on this
stuff. Nobody in politics is saying: "we're going to have to stop flying one
day, it might be a good idea to start funding the alternatives"

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MalcolmDiggs
I don't think you have to give it up entirely if you're concerned about the
impact.

Purchasing carbon-offsets are also a meaningful way to (arguably) help reduce
your footprint if you find yourself flying a lot.

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erac1e
Stop farting. Especially if you are a cow.

~~~
PerfectElement
Or stop buying cow's body parts.

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TaiFood
Where is the scepticism about corruptible data due to biased sponsorship?

2011's Climategate should give pause to your hysterical mindset.

Have all of your social circle implement the changes and monitor the data for
a few decades to guage the effectiveness of your proposal.

~~~
hackuser
Skepticism is important, but if we refrain from drawing conclusions and acting
until all doubt is eliminated, then we'll never conclude or do anything. There
are even reasons to be skeptical about ideas such as evolution and relativity.

However, there are many more reasons to be skeptical about the alternative
theories for these phenomena. We also should be skeptical about the
alternative theories of what is happening with our climate, and about the
people who propogate those theories and their funding and agendas.

In my mind, the body of research is far too large to doubt due to inevitable
flaws here and there, the expert consensus is overwhelming and far too broad
and deep to be a conspiracy, and the predictions have been relatively
accurate. If someone can provide a better model for our climate and what is
happening, I'd be interested, but delaying action further is an unacceptable,
unjustified risk with such high stakes and exceptional evidence.

