
Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer - coder2222
http://hello-world.io/death-of-a-programmer
======
jroseattle
I grew up on a farm. Not surprised to see this decision in the slightest.
Farming is tough -- physically, financially, and in the end emotionally. But
it is still a very rewarding life.

I can remember sitting on my grandfather's lap, riding on his John Deere two-
cylinder (it was called a Johnny Popper.) Pre-school? I went to pre-farming. I
was probably 3 years old the first time I rode a tractor.

By the time I was 8, I was driving that popper while two of my grandfather's
farm hands tossed hay bales onto a flatbed trailer. We drove back to the barn,
and I scampered up to the second floor and waited as those guys tossed those
hay bales up through a huge opening. I had to stack the hay bales, and had to
run my ass off to keep up. Then, we'd do it all over again until the barn was
full. I was exhausted every day, but my grandfather allowed me to drink my
first beer with those guys when we were finished. It sounds awful, but it was
an amazing experience.

I'm no longer out in the field. For me now, the feeling of working on
something with my hands is cathartic. Some of my best days for relaxing
involve doing simple yardwork around our house.

The farm life works for some people, but not for others. What is great is that
no one need debate whether that choice is right -- it only matters to
yourself. Good for this guy, I think he made a great choice for himself.

~~~
jorgeleo
"The farm life works for some people"

I agree. I couldn't do farm, I have bad allergies to pollen, dust, and too
much time under the sun and I become red as a lobster, and it is painful

But programming is what I love to do. So I will say "The programmer life works
for some people"

I wouldn't call the original article "The death of a programmer", I would call
it "The born of a farmer". He figure out were he feels happier, and that is
good thing which sometimes means leaving behind what is hip for the masses,
but that is not a failure, that is centering

~~~
crimsonalucard
As much as we "say" we love programming and farming if ever we became so
filthy rich that we could pay other people to do these things for us... we
would.

I've never heard of a tech billionaire profess his love of programming so much
that he's diving right back into the trenches. We're all human, we may love
programming and farming, but let's be real, programming and farming are still
work and we're all working toward retirement: a state where we no longer need
to work.

~~~
jalcazar
No.

Matthew Dillon doesn't need to work but keeps working on DragonFlyBSD.

Also it is possible to live and work as in retirement
[http://www.noogenesis.com/pineapple/fisherman.html](http://www.noogenesis.com/pineapple/fisherman.html)

~~~
ciupicri
> Matthew Dillon doesn't need to work but keeps working on DragonFlyBSD.

Source?

~~~
jalcazar
It is known, kind of an axiom.

While I don't have access to Dillon's finances, his personal site
[http://www.backplane.com](http://www.backplane.com) gives some hints: _BEST
Internet was an incredible successs_ successs [sic] _These days most of my
attention is focused on the The DragonFly Project_

______

He isn't the only one, many open source developers contribute because they
want to do it and not expecting any monetary compensation.

------
pugio
This is probably too extreme of a life change for most people to implement,
but there are ways to gain some of the benefits without an entire lifestyle
upheaval.

Recently I've begun camping on business trips instead of using my hotel
budget. I'll fly in with a tent, sleeping bag, laptop, and cooler bag, rent a
car, and set up camp in whichever campground is closest to the city. Most of
these places are meant for local families, and are equipped with water, power
(for trailers), and showers.

In the morning I drive into the city for business, then head back out to the
campsite to hike, sit and think, and code. I haven't taken a smartphone with
me, so those after-city hours are devoid of the usual notification hail.

It's done wonders for my focus, motivation, and sense of purpose. Waking up to
sunlight, birds chirping, and the scent of pine is an invigorating start to a
day, and those twilight hours are great for going over designs and pre-
planning coding time.

A lot of that low-level building buzz of dissatisfaction vanishes after a few
days of this. I think we need nature. We need freshness and quiet and the
white noise of wind, birds, and streams.

I would love a community/place where this was always possible, but for now,
travel-business-camping has worked wonders. (And the look on my colleague's
faces when I tell them about my "hotel"... priceless.)

~~~
Nicholas_C
> In the morning I drive into the city for business, then head back out to the
> campsite to hike, sit and think, and code. I haven't taken a smartphone with
> me, so those after-city hours are devoid of the usual notification hail.

You must be a great programmer because there is no way I could program without
Stack Overflow/Google.

~~~
xrange
...Maybe it is an age thing? There was a time before Google and Stack
Overflow.

~~~
gisenberg
There's also a complexity explosion to factor in, and saying that there was a
time before Google and Stack Overflow seems a bit dismissive of that. Chances
are, your app today is built on at least a dozen dependencies that require
documentation and reference lookup several times throughout any given day.

~~~
ianferrel
It doesn't take much work to save those offline.

Sure, you miss out on StackOverflow's expertise, but if you really just need
to refer to API documentation, that should be doable.

~~~
gisenberg
Point taken, but reference material can cover a lot more than API docs.
Changes in dependencies, dependencies of dependencies, and their change in
source over time are often critical pieces of information. Further, it's
difficult to cover all possible material for dependencies that have been taken
for granted; OS, HTTP server, drivers, and unexpected complications like OEM-
level defects in specific revisions of hardware models are difficult to
account for.

------
_halgari
It's funny to see this stuff go full-circle. My parents left the city in the
early 90's to move to a small WI farm in the middle of nowhere (15min to get
to a town of 5000 people). I can see the appeal of a simpler life.

But the funny thing is, as a kid, I hated it. My parents got tired of the
suburbs, I longed for it. They longed for simplicity, I longed for
convenience. I hated the idea of having to drive long distances just to get
some milk and eggs. I hated the silence, and how secluded I felt.

On the bright side, the silence drove me to cobble together an old computer
and start programming at the age of 10, but that may have happened no matter
where I lived.

So perhaps someday I'll snap and feel like moving to the country. But for now
I'm quite happy with my wife and kids in the stereotypical suburbs.

~~~
torrent-of-ions
I grew up in the suburbs and hated it. I hated the idea of having to go long
distances to get milk and eggs. I'm happy now in a city centre.

~~~
philbarr
I never understood that about America. I've been lost in the suburbs in
Michigan once, driving along for ages with just house after house after house,
and thinking, "where's the local shop?"

Surely it's got to be worth someone setting up a local shop every couple of
miles?

~~~
mietek
Apparently, it’s not permitted:

 _> In North-American zoning, zones clearly specify which use is allowed on
it. In general, zones allow only one or two uses. For example, a residential
single-family detached home zone tolerates only single-family detached houses.
Don't try to put a convenience store or a school in one, nor a duplex._

[http://urbankchoze.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/japanese-
zoning.ht...](http://urbankchoze.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html)

Previous discussion:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8540845](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8540845)

~~~
drzaiusapelord
This is purely a suburban problem and typical of the short sightedness of
suburban development, which often corrupts the political process because a
mandated retail lot is one less high-profit residential home they can't sell.

Here in the city, there are shops everywhere. Mix use residential is fairly
common with retail on the ground floor and condos/apartments up top. This has
created a glut of storefronts with varying results. Its nice to have all these
shops, but the glut of small storefronts means much lowered rents than before
so a lot of fly-by-night businesses take over, and in my opinion, hurt the
neighborhood like pawn shops, yet another open 4am tattoo shop, yet another
shitty independent cricket/boost reseller, yet another liquor convenience
store, yet another e-cig store, yet another detailing/hand carwash, yet
another gourmet-style restaurant that will fold in 12 months, etc. Desireable
shops like Trader Joes or Nordstrom can't open in those tiny and no parking
storefronts so its high margin retail junk.

This isn't as common anymore -- thank god, but when I was a kid, every other
residential block in Chicago had a corner bar. A few nice, but most just
depressing places full of serious drunks causing problems all through the
night. So yeah, being too liberal with business licenses isn't so great.

So this kind of thing cuts both ways, but yes, in the suburbs its especially
bad. But at least they have the roads and capacity to handle it and their
shopping centers are massive, which is nice as you can park at a giant mall or
strip mall and get everything you need done. I can't do that, I have no giant
structures like this remotely near me. In the city, we need closer stores
because of how bad traffic and parking are. If suburban driving was this bad
then they'd have the political impetus to change zoning.

tldr; city planning is hard and political.

~~~
wcummings
I'd way rather have walking access to smaller independent grocers and bodegas
than a mediocre specialty food store like Trader Joes with a big parking lot.

~~~
juliangregorian
Where I live, we're swimming in "bodegas", which are full of soda, canned
food, processed white bread -- nothing you'd want to eat. Most of the people
who can afford to or who commute shop at... Trader Joe's.

------
iagooar
I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and this post definitely gives me
some motivation.

I'm a programmer who loves to code and build stuff, learning new programming
languages and frameworks, discussing about architecture, etc. I love shipping
new features and making customers happy.

BUT inside of me a desire has been growing to go back to the roots, to live a
life closer to the nature. I feel the need to spend more time outside, with
less time pressure.

I've been thinking about this idea to build something like a "tech-farmer
colony". Maybe it's been done in the past, never heard of it, but it would be
a group of engineers and their families, living together and working part-time
as software / hardware engineers, and part time as farmers, with flexible
division of tasks. Maybe the software / hardware company could even work on
projects closely related to farming, in order to improve productivity /
efficiency / cut costs / promote ecologic food, etc.

I'd be curious to see if there are more people in the tech industry who would
love to do something like this. I'd love to read some interesting ideas /
critique.

~~~
tsunamifury
You may have to accept a world where you need other people besides engineers.

~~~
iagooar
I wasn't thinking about excluding non-tech people (my girlfriend has no tech
background). I was just thinking about building a company with like-minded
people with some technical skills and experience, while living together and
working on a farm, including the families which may or may not have a
technical background. Sure there might be a need for marketing or sales people
as well, but that's a bit too detailed for now, considering it is nothing more
than an idea yet ;)

~~~
tsunamifury
Apologies -- just was bein' a bit snark about the engineering master race.

------
charlysisto
Not to question this guy's remarkable decision or the article itself, just one
expression I see quit often and makes me cringe each time, that is : the real
world (referred here as a little haven of nature).

Is the 19th century Industrial revolution just an illusion, the factories, the
cars, the towns, the wars just a view of the spirit, and the little birds
singing in the trees the real world ?

Is the current (electronic?) revolution an illusion, just a bait for digital
addicts, a virtual world that drags us away from our real world ?

I think it's quit the opposite. I think the real world is this huge
uncontrollable human growth on the branch its standing on.

Don't get me wrong, I was raised in the countryside and my entire soul is
deeply bonded to the forest, and the animals and insects living in it. But
don't call it the real world. Rather something like the fading world. And we
need all the talent and imagination behind computers (or in labs), where we
can have true impact on things and save it.

Going back to it is the true illusion...

~~~
tsunamifury
I think, comparatively, given all the human and computer driven computation to
create simulations on a screen resulting in something 1/100,000,000th as
complex as a sqft of rainforest... Yes its not real.

Computation has been trapped inside boxes and tiny screens, virtualization
with behaviors that don't even approach the richness and complexity of reality
outside that box. Don't get me wrong, it's a noble and passionate endeavor,
but it's misguided if it traps you there forever.

~~~
solipsism
I'm sorry, but this makes no sense.

 _given all the human and computer driven computation to create simulations on
a screen resulting in something 1 /100,000,000th as complex as a sqft of
rainforest_

This is an absurd comparison. Besides being apples to oranges, besides being
super arbitrary (where did you get 1 square foot?), besides being completely
undefined (what kinds of simulations are you talking about?).. it doesn't make
any sense.

Let's follow your _logic_ a little bit. * A butterfly in the rainforest
creates a chrysalis. That chrysalis is not real because it's 1/100,000,000th
as complex as a square foot of rainforest. It's a noble and passionate
endeavor, but it doesn't even approach the richness and complexity of reality
outside that chrysalis.

Does that make sense to you? Do you agree with it?

Let's use your _logic_ to try to compare apples to apples. Let's compare a
square mile of rainforest to a square mile of New York City. Is one more real
than the other? Since you seem to think complexity has something to do with
realness (an idea that seems silly and arbitrary, but let's go with it), is
one more complex than the other? Hard to say. The rainforest almost certainly
has more individual living things. But is that how we define complexity? The
city is chock full of human brains, and it's hard to argue with the fact that
the human brain is one of the most complex things on the planet. The city also
seems low in entropy compared to the jungle. The very fact that a city exists,
distinct from the jungle, seems to imply lower entropy. If you let the city go
without tending for a long time (and if its location was right), it would
_become_ jungle. You might argue that that's because there's no one keeping
the complexity high. And since high complexity means more real (I still don't
get it, but I'm just going with your "logic"), I have shown the city is more
real than the jungle.

Does that make sense? Not really? It's definitely not rigorous. It's not based
on sound principles. The logic is faulty in all kinds of ways. It makes leaps
of logic and uses poorly defined concepts. Does that stand out more when I do
it compared to when you're doing it? I urge you to not be "that guy" or "that
girl" that uses that kind of _logic_.

~~~
tsunamifury
No.

------
magice
You know, farming may be wonderful and all. But it's not silver bullet. Nor
does it make programming any less rewarding, provided that one does it right.

In fact, it is YOUR OWN DAMNED fault if you fail to sing with your children
while you worked as a programmer. Wait, it's your own damn fault for pretty
much everything in your life. Programming is not the disease; you are. I know
people who finished extra degrees while working as programmer; I know people
who climbs mountains while working as programmer; I know people who play music
professionally while working as programmer; I know people who take excellent
care of their family while working as a programmer. Your job exchanges (some)
of your time for (some) money. The responsibility of adjusting the job to the
life lies in your hand. Stop blaming programming for your troubles.

You know, the whole "OMG! I got a new job! It's wonderful! It beats my
previous job!" kind of silliness should really really stop. Most things have
their rewards and challenges. Maybe farming suits you better. I don't know.
However, judging from the kind of stupid judgment thrown around ("real world"
and "no exception" and "I sing for my kids), doubt haunts my view. But oh
well. Good luck. And stop bashing other people's job, please.

~~~
vogt
The valid points that you are making are getting lost in the hostile tone. The
article is about finding one's self (the author), not everyone's self.

Farming isn't a silver bullet, but neither is programming. Of course. I see
the value, appeal, and benefits in both. I don't believe the author intended
to label programming a disease for anyone other than himself, so vilifying him
for it seems pretty harsh.

------
dejv
Sounds quite like my story: after ten years in industry I've got quite enough,
can't really enjoy programming and didn't seen much future in this field for
me. So I get back to village I grew up, bought couple of vineyards and started
small winery.

I went out nearly every morning to work in fields, spent days in cellar and
did just few hours of programming per week to pay my bills. It was great for
some time, not having to think about real life outside, being really free to
just enjoy pointless discussions in local pub till early in the morning, then
spent some time with neighbours just drinking coffee in the morning and
gossiping before going out to do some work outside.

I was sure to never work in technology ever again, but I relapsed and here I
am back in the city, running company in ag-tech space (lab hw for wine
analysis) and coming back to my fields just for weekends (and odd week days
here and there) to take care of my vines. I did downsized my plans for mid-
sized winery for now and keeping the operation just as a hobby and side
business, but I am sure I am going back fulltime once I am done with my
company.

------
ryandrake
I don't know--good for this guy, but there's no way I'd do it. I got into
technology in order to avoid a life of back-breaking manual labor. When I was
a kid I had to go help bail hay on a farm, and then graduated to assisting my
father doing construction jobs. Nailing shingles to a roof under the sun all
day in the middle of the summer is great motivation to go for that job in an
air conditioned office.

~~~
logicalmind
I was in the same boat. The comparison should really be about the long-term
downsides. Sure, the sedentary lifestyle of computer work could cause various
ailments. But the farm lifestyle will cause its own long-term ailments.
Everyone is built differently, so there is no guarantee of health on either
side. Eventually, both forms of work will catch up with you. It's just a
matter of which one you can personally handle better. ie. carpal tunnel vs
slipped disks. Not to mention the difference in possibility of serious injury
or death. There is a lot of opportunity on a farm to get injured temporarily
or permanently. If serious, you either die or are unable to continue farming.
I find this piece very short-sighted.

~~~
technomancy
Unfortunately the follow-up post 12 months from now once the romantic ideals
fade won't make it to Hacker News, if it even gets written.

------
dimxasnewfrozen
I think you need to be passionate about the code you write. I worked for a
company out of college that I despised. I was there for 3 years and was
extremely miserable. It was indeed soul sucking. I moved out of state, to a
new company working on software in a totally different market and it's been
very enjoyable. I love being outside, but I also love programming and wouldn't
chose any other career over it.

I do love this story though. I'm glad it's working out. It must have been
tough to make that huge change, with kids and everything. Good luck.

~~~
coder2222
Hey, this is the author of the post! I completely agree with you, and I think
in a lot of ways it's tough to find a place that can keep you passionate about
the code you write. I still have plans to write code in the future, however,
this journey of mine is to help give me the freedom to write code for myself.
Code that I am actually passionate about. It seems that writing code for
others is part of what takes the away the passion of the individual writing
it.

Thank you very much for the well wishes!

~~~
randomdata
As another programmer turned farmer, I am curious how you managed to reach
self-sustainabilty so quickly? Programming is still an integral part of my
farming operation because it pays the bills.

------
wglb
My journey is quite the reverse. I grew up on a dryland wheat farm in northern
Montana, 60 miles from Canada, 90 miles from Glacier Park. Dryland means that
there are about 12 inches of rain in a year, about what Tucson, AZ gets.
Growing season is about two days shorter than what it takes to grow wheat. I
did most of the tractor driving during the summer starting when I was 12, and
my Dad and I had to do all the harvesting by ourselves the summer that I was
13, as the hired man quit two weeks before harvest. Harvest was 100 hour
weeks.

In the winter, Dad went to the library each day, checked out 3 books, (the
maximum then), returned them the next day, got three more. Mom would always be
cooking and cleaning, getting us kids off to school, secretly writing poetry.

Farming for us was mostly about driving. Tractor, truck, swather, combine,
rake, fuel pickup. Not so romantic as painted by the article.

Lots of fond memories. Sunsets would often fill the vast sky. Light in the sky
until 10:45. Milky Way an astonishing sight. Occasional Aurora. On the tractor
on a summer day, if you watched very carefully, you could see the dust devils
form, and see the smooth-walled tube raise up a 1000 feet or more, then
disappear. The satisfaction of learning how to drive a caterpillar pulling a
duckfoot plow and making a half-mile long very straight line. The satisfaction
of the end of harvest, which statistically would be on the day that the sky
turned black and the fields were inaccessible for weeks.

But hard work during the summer, for sure. 10 hours each day on a tractor, no
radio or other entertainment other than daydreams. (And still the only place
that you can find me singing. And even then, not very often.) The risk
incumbent with a state known for violent weather making sure you got all the
harvest in in the approximately 30 days that you had available. Or the day in
late June when I was about 8 that a sudden thunderstorm came up and the three
of us watched, transfixed, as a 10 minute hailstorm wiped out the crop. Dad
says "Well, that's it for this year".

And there are some irreconcilables. Judy Blunt in Breaking Clean said it very
well about her own boys after she left the farm and moved to the university
town: "On the farm, they were men in training. Here, they are just boys".

What most folks don't understand is that in America, the lives of small
farmers, staring with my Grandfather's generation, was more affected by
technology than any other way of life. A nearly two orders of magnitude of
improvement in productivity over that time span. So even the farm of my youth
isn't any more. Patterns are already different, machines are larger, more
sophisticated. I am pretty sure that both Dad and Mom don't have much romance
for that way of life. I couldn't wait to get out of there to University, with
the full support and encouragement of my family. Even thought there isn't
really a horizon here in Illinois. You can't see what the weather is until it
is upon you.

I do get back now and again, having some family there. The sunsets are
spectacular. So is the wind, occasionally tipping over boxcars. And there is
February.

But props to the author of the article. Do what you love. But I can't help but
wonder if there isn't a bit of a Hawthorne effect for both of us.

------
thoman23
I know nothing about farming, but I wouldn't have guessed the farming
lifestyle would afford more free time than many programming jobs. You can get
a good (but boring) programming job at a megacorp/bank/government and work 35
hours a week and still have lots of time for family. You don't have to succumb
to the 80 hours/week startup mentality. Also, money is not meaningless. Even
if you eschew the material lifestyle, you still need to consider the financial
demands of raising children and saving for retirement.

------
jqm
Hilarious...

I grew up on a large agriculture operation miles from town. I hated it. My
friends all got to do cool stuff like skateboard and go to the mall. I had to
have a milk cow instead. I couldn't wait to grow up and get away and live in a
city. I was going to be an electrical engineer. Instead I became an
agronomist. I worked on some different types of farms and although it was OK
it wasn't exactly what I wanted to do. I wanted to think all day at work, not
just exist and do the same thing season after season. I always loved computers
and had ever since my first TSR-80. I started playing around with HTML. Then I
learned Python and Javascript. Then I started writing more complex programs.
Then I decided I wanted to do it full time about 4 years ago and quite my job
as a land reclamation specialist. My boss was quite surprised... he knew I was
"good with computers" but I was going to be a programming nerd? I got some
contract jobs. Then I got a full time job as a web developer. I love it. Every
day I'm clean, I sit in a comfortable chair in a climate controlled
environment and I play with computer code. I'm very happy (although I still
live on a few acres and have a big garden... it's a hobby now which is just
the way I like it).

~~~
dasmoth
As someone who grew up on "a few acres and a big garden" but currently lives
in town, I'd say there's a pretty big difference there.

------
jerf
Yesterday I posted a comment about being careful about how we try to bring
people into programming and making sure that we encourage people to openly and
honestly examine themselves for whether this is something they want to do, and
not just thoughtlessly grease the slide into "programming" for everybody. [1]

This is the sort of thing I meant. Dig back into the first post and it's clear
that this person was very interested in coding as a hobby, but that it didn't
translate as a career. A bit of _dis_ couragement, or at least, something that
most people who are gung-ho about encouraging people in, in, in to coding
would _consider_ discouragement but perhaps also could just be called
"realism", could well have saved this person a lot of pain and suffering.
Mindless encouragement is not a virtue... it must be mind _ful_.

I am where I belong. I've done farming and gardening and it does _nothing_ for
me, for a variety of reasons. I would (and I suppose, do) pay not to do it.
This would be a horrifying career change for me. But I am grateful that I am a
statistically-crazy guy who actually loves this almost inhuman job of
programming, grateful that I get to do this crazy stuff that few other people
really _want_ to do, and they can go do stuff that I don't want to do. Real
diversity is great.

Be careful about encouragement, and be honest about the whole package. There
are people out there who are natural programmers (or other technical
positions), and don't know it yet. There are people out there who think it's a
good idea, and really shouldn't do it. There are people out there who don't
know about programming, and don't need to because it isn't for them, and
somebody _really_ needs to come talk to them about the virtues of plumbing, or
how much charity work they could do. There's a _lot_ of people out there who
should be introduced to what computers can do for you as a hobby or an adjunct
to another career but don't need to be "programmers". You can't perfectly
predict, and ultimately everyone's responsible for their own decisions anyhow,
but be thoughtful about what you say. Is the end goal to create a programmer,
or to create a satisfied person?

[1]:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9486391](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9486391)

~~~
jerf
As I sit here watching this parent post go grey, it is remarkable to me the
degree to which people are bothered by the idea that automatic encouragement
may not be a good idea, even when posted to a story about how someone didn't
like programming as a career and even as people are singing the praises of the
person realizing they don't want to be a programmer and probably should never
have been a professional programmer.

Do you all really want to accept the idea that "encouragement is always good
regardless of the consequences!" with such religious fervor? Is the idea that
sometimes someone should not be encouraged in a particular direction really
that horrifying? Where did this idea come from? Have you examined it? Have you
consciously accepted it? Or is it an unexamined axiom that has wormed its way
into your belief structure? And I mean that with all the philosophical baggage
the term "unexamined" has.

 _Think_. These are people's lives and livelihoods we are talking about here,
not what they're going to eat for dinner tonight, and you are not excused from
thought by an unexamined axiom that "encouragement always good". The linked
post is hardly that unusual; I personally can name at least three people who
have left the career and also gotten happier, and I know one other person
currently finishing up before they go back to school to switch to a career
that is definitely not programming, something that is not "farming" but is
also in its own way absolutely as far as you can get from programming. You
have to _think_ , and teach others to think too.

~~~
solipsism
I didn't vote you down, but I wouldn't be so quick to assume that the people
who did voted you down because they failed to _think_. I don't find your point
of view particularly convincing. It's not because I think everyone should be
blindly encouraged to do any particular thing. It's not because I _didn 't
think_. It's for reasons such as the following:

* The grass is always greener on the other side. It's not obvious to me that, had the author of this blog started as a farmer and eventually ditched it to become a programmer, he would not have felt a similar sense of having moved to something better.

* It's not obvious to me that we should not be encouraging _everyone_ to do _whatever_ constructive thing they want to do at that particular time. Maybe by demotivating someone we're lowering their chances of getting far enough along that trajectory to even realize whether they like it or not. Maybe your advice makes it more likely for people to choose to do _nothing_ hard or risky and end up unhappy flipping burgers.

~~~
jerf
It's not my first time around this loop... it's about the fourth time, and the
first time I spoke up about being hit for the opinion. People really are
uncomfortable with the idea that encouragement is not necessarily a good
thing, and now I think even more so, it's a subconscious thing that does not
survive conscious examination.

Also, I'm not saying to never be encouraging... I'm encouraging honesty.
People need to know what a job really is.

------
HeyLaughingBoy
That bit about coming down with the 22 got to me a bit. I had a dog attack on
my chicken flock last week and one of the last remaining birds was still alive
but obviously dying. Even though I see them as livestock, not pets, it was
still not easy to pick her up, break her neck to kill her quickly then stand
back and watch it end.

Never easy to kill something you're supposed to be taking care of.

~~~
PerfectElement
> "Even though I see them as livestock, not pets"

Isn't it funny how this is a completely arbitrary definition?

The most sensible explanation I've seen about this phenomenon is called
carnism and it's brilliantly explained by Dr. Melaine Joy in this TED talk:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0VrZPBskpg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0VrZPBskpg)

~~~
icebraining
No, it's not arbitrary at all, it's just subjective and depends on your
personal relation with the animal.

Frankly, that video sounds like BS to me. How much time did she spend within
family farms that raise animals? The idea that you need "invisibility" or to
abstract animals as non-individual or as objects is so untrue it's not even
funny.

~~~
PerfectElement
The fact that people think dogs have higher intrinsic value than pigs, and
hence deserve more rights, is based on completely arbitrary characteristics.
The proof of that is that dogs are seen as food in some cultures, cows are
seen as sacred in others, etc. It's all part of belief systems that, in most
cases, are inherited without being questioned.

I have no idea if she has spent time within family farms, but I would guess
that she, like most people versed in animal rights, would strongly disagree
with exploiting the bodies and reproductive systems of animals unnecessarily.
Regardless of it being done in a factory farm or in the best family farm,
where animals roam free until the day they are sent to the house of slaughter,
at a young age.

If you sent a perfectly healthy dog (or horse, or cat, or elephant) to
slaughter, for profit or pleasure, in a culture that sees those animals as
members of their moral community, you would get a very different reaction from
society.

~~~
icebraining
_The fact that people think dogs have higher intrinsic value than pigs, and
hence deserve more rights, is based on completely arbitrary characteristics.
The proof of that is that dogs are seen as food in some cultures, cows are
seen as sacred in others, etc. It 's all part of belief systems that, in most
cases, are inherited without being questioned._

The fact that the reasons are different doesn't mean they're arbitrary, merely
not universal. Some cultures practice(d) cannibalism, does that mean that our
opposition to that practice is necessarily arbitrary?

I think it's clear that many, if not most, are not arbitrary - which doesn't
mean they are well supported; not everything is valid just because it has some
reason behind it.

 _I have no idea if she has spent time within family farms, but I would guess
that she, like most people versed in animal rights, would strongly disagree
with exploiting the bodies and reproductive systems of animals unnecessarily.
Regardless of it being done in a factory farm or in the best family farm,
where animals roam free until the day they are sent to the house of slaughter,
at a young age._

No doubt, but that wasn't my issue with the video. I wasn't disagreeing with
the opposition of exploiting animals unnecessarily, just with the theory of
Carnism that she uses to support it.

I inquired about her experience with family farms, not because they don't
exploit animals, but because I believe they put a very obvious hole in her
theory about why people do exploit animals.

 _If you sent a perfectly healthy dog (or horse, or cat, or elephant) to
slaughter, for profit or pleasure, in a culture that sees those animals as
members of their moral community, you would get a very different reaction from
society._

No doubt, but her theory had more than just "people treat animals
differently".

~~~
solipsism
_I think it 's clear that many, if not most, are not arbitrary - which doesn't
mean they are well supported; not everything is valid just because it has some
reason behind it._

The definition of _arbitrary_ is "having no reason behind it". Sure, judging
whether a particular classification counts as "arbitrary" is hard because the
definition of "arbitrary" is squishy. But what you just said amounts to:

 _It 's not arbitrary. It might be arbitrary, but it's not arbitrary._

~~~
icebraining
No, what I meant is that even the non-arbitrary ones may not have _good_
reasons behind them.

------
no1publicenemy
That's why work-life balance is SO BLOODY IMPORTANT and the weekends and
annual vacation and that's why I worship my downtime, hobbies, excursions and
expeditions more than my work because I don't wanna end up sick, depressed or
a "born-again" something.

------
katielo
I'm a programmer, my dad's a dairy farmer. We're both happy with our choices.
Anyone thinking of the farm life, just be careful of romanticizing it as this
article does. You have to be very efficient and manage risk extremely well - a
lot is out of your control (the weather, crop/livestock diseases, the prices
of livestock feed/fertilizer/seed, the price of the final commodity you sell
which is determined by global markets). Farmers often have razor thin margins
and it can be very stressful when it doesn't rain and your crops/livestock
start dying, or when input prices in your local area are above global sales
prices for your commodity. These things happen from time to time and must be
planned for properly (insure/self-insure and don't freak out), or you risk
emotional and financial bankruptcy. This takes some doing. My dad can handle
this risk and he is a very happy and successful farmer. I can't. I'm a very
happy programmer.

------
JustSomeNobody
I couldn't do this; I'm too addicted to always being "on". I'm constantly
checking my work phone for email (even after hours and on weekends) just to
see what's going on (I'm a remote worker). I constantly look at my phone
(reading everything and anything; not using FB as I'm not very social that
way). I lie down to go to sleep at night and my brain is literally buzzing. My
focus is shit. The other day I thought I'd try the pomodoro technique to help
with that, but proceeded to spend 6 hours trying to find just the right timer.
Then ended up writing my own. But there's no way in Hell I could stop being
always "on".

~~~
rev_bird
> The other day I thought I'd try the pomodoro technique to help with that,
> but proceeded to spend 6 hours trying to find just the right timer. Then
> ended up writing my own.

This describes my habits so well. Some days, it's exhilarating to have so many
options for where to point my brain, but other days, I just wish I could sit
down and focus on something I actually thought was important.

------
xkarga00
Well, the case with me is exactly the opposite. I come from a family of
farmers and since a very very young age I found myself working in the fields
and greenhouses, constantly day-dreaming about the time I would make it out of
there for good.

Now that finally that time has come, for one thing I'm sure: I'm never going
back (or at least I won't go back for a long time to come).

I love "sitting behind a desk and pumping out code", it's way more fun,
comfortable, and profitable than digging in the ground, planting tomatoes, or
picking gumbos.

edit: I feel that I have to mention my enormous love for nature. There are a
lot of ways to be close to it, farming is definitely not the only one.

~~~
randomdata
Similarly, I grew up on a dairy farm and have absolutely no desire to ever
raise animals again. However, I eventually found myself cash cropping and love
every minute of it. Farming is a pretty vague term, really.

------
jader201
Sounds like the OP was never a "programmer", but rather a farmer trapped
inside a programmer's job.

I think it takes courage (and a bit of risk) to completely shift the course of
your career, especially while you have a family to support. I will be curious
to hear if he sticks with it long term, but to me, it sounds like he never was
designed to be a programmer.

To be a programmer, it takes someone that doesn't mind being behind a computer
for a good part of the day (even if you're able to take a break to get some
fresh air on occasion). Otherwise, it will have the effect it seems to have
had on the OP, and ultimately leave you wishing for something else.

And that's completely cool -- those people should find what drives them.

But it's also completely cool if you're designed to enjoy programming. And I
think you can still do this and, at the same time, make sure you're doing
other things to bring a smile to your face (in addition to programming), like
spending time with family and friends.

~~~
rmsaksida
> To be a programmer, it takes someone that doesn't mind being behind a
> computer for a good part of the day (even if you're able to take a break to
> get some fresh air on occasion). Otherwise, it will have the effect it seems
> to have had on the OP, and ultimately leave you wishing for something else.

I don't know if that's true for everybody.

Being behind a computer all day long is what I've been doing since I was 8.
I'm 26 now. I like computers. I don't mind it. But whenever I do a little
traveling or have to spend a while outdoors, I feel an immense joy, and I get
the feeling that there's an incredible amount of things out there I'm missing
out; I yearn for life "outside". I think I'd do well on it. I'm happy as a
programmer, but I can imagine myself being happy a farmer - who knows? Whether
I'd be happy, or happier, I have no idea.

There are so many occupations out there, and each person is so complex, I find
it hard to say with any confidence that a person has found his true
profession. It might just be that I'd have been an extraordinary sailor, but
the circumstances of life have made it so that I will never know that reality.
Everyone convinces themselves that they've found the path they were cut out
for, but there's a lot of wishful thinking there, and many people don't even
consider these issues at all.

~~~
ashark
I'd be a lot happier as a programmer if I could do it only about 20 weeks a
year. Hell, I'd probably gladly work 60+ hour weeks then. 40 hours week after
week and I slowly grow to hate it. If only programming work were seasonal. 1/3
of my work weeks programming, 1/3 studying, practicing music, and doing non-
programming creative work, 1/3 physical labor and building things with my
hands. That'd be my perfect life, I think.

Not sure how to make that work while providing for my family, though, since
working 1/3 a year at a professional job isn't usually an option and, even if
it were, I'd be passing up a lot of money.

Oh well, can't have everything. Hurray for comparative advantage, I guess?
Back to coding....

~~~
blt
I'm continually in search of a job where I can split my time between
programming and building stuff. I already had my dream job. I was writing
control and data processing software for lab instruments, but also doing
mechanical design, making parts in a machine shop, assembling electronics.
Then my grant ran out, and I wasn't getting paid much either. Still think my
dream job would be building boutique one-off scientific instruments.

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
You and me both, sunshine!

Occasionally I get to do all that stuff above, outside the day job, and I love
it. Trying to turn it into a real business but slow in getting there.

And I already live on a farm...

------
rehtona
I wish I was able to feel good doing manual labor or outdoors activities but I
just can't for the most part. That includes farming, carpenting, fishing,
sailing etc. My father is a very handy man, and I've tried to keep an open
mind, but I just dread every second of it. Still, I go fishing and sailing
with him just to hang out, and he doesn't know how I feel about it. Guess I'm
lucky to be living in this day and age, I would have been a terrible and
unhappy farmer.

~~~
fnayr
Thanks for the input, another. I feel the same way except that I do enjoy the
fishing with my Dad. But I do desire to enjoy and be good at the other stuff,
I'm just not.

------
Bouncingsoul1
What you are and what you do are 2 diffrent things.Programmer is a profession
not a lifestyle. I was this Outdoor Guy, I did skiing instructor in the winter
and mountainbike guide in the sommer. Later on I was this Soundtec Guy, you
know doing shows in diffrent towns every night. My mistake and why I failed at
both in the end was because I thought this would be my life while it only was
my job. And like every job there are pros and cons and when times where
getting harder I failed because I couldn't think of it as my only my job but
my life. We tend to romanticize our jobs, which is I think is the basic
problem here.

------
Intermernet
When I was younger, I was a rock-climbing bum, and used to travel Australia on
a meagre budget to visit climbing areas.

Near Mt Arapiles in Victoria, there was (hopefully still is) a farm that had
worked out that local climbers were the best source of cheap labour :-) They
literally paid a day's wage with a bag of food.

I spent many happy days working on that farm (I already came from a rural
background so was comfortable around animals etc) and the work always made me
feel stronger, and more importantly, useful.

I also had the heart wrenching experience of animals dying in my hands, and
was only consoled by the fact that the farmer was more distraught than I. It
made me realise that the best of farmers know their animals, and care greatly
for their animals above and beyond any possible monetary value. The fine line
between "stock" and "pets" is a difficult one to walk.

It made me realise that the depictions of Wal and Cooch (especially Cooch, who
would take a baby bottle to new-born lambs in the middle of a storm) from the
wonderful comic strip "Footrot Flats" [1] were poignantly accurate, and that I
really don't have what it takes to be a full time farmer.

I wish the author the best of luck, and a happy, harmonious life for the
future.

Also, playing live music at the local pub with your son is awesome :-)

[1]:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footrot_Flats](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footrot_Flats)

------
ra1n85
I've seen these before - someone leaves it all for the simple life. This is
the first time I've seen the added benefit of being able to spend a lot more
time with family. To me, that's one of the most compelling reasons to do
something like this.

~~~
emodendroket
Many of them end up going back to the not-so-simple life in a few years so I'm
hesitant to read too much into an early account like this.

~~~
Apocryphon
Worked for Thoreau.

~~~
pnathan
I think Walden is the most snobby book I've read in my _life_. Everything he
had, he got from the people he looked down on in the hardworking area round
about that he 'escaped' from.

------
mainguy
Personally I think the change of pace is what some people need. While routine
is comforting, it's also a trap and can be soul sucking.

------
SethMurphy
While programming may be defined by math and intelligence to many who don't
know better, it is the constant learning and problem solving that keeps it
fresh for me. The Evolution of a Problem Solver sounds like a better title to
me.

------
thrownaway2424
Actual farmers kinda hate the way wealthy professionals bring their piles of
cash and drive up land prices. But I see the appeal.

------
galfarragem
Our need for a low-density or high-density environment apparently change
during our life:

\- Childhood: kids need space, safety/freedom and some friends to explore the
world. Countryside and suburbs are the best option.

\- Social years: humans are social and hierarchical. We need a place with
plenty of opportunities to experience the world and prove our value in the
different hierarchies. Cities are the best option.

\- Maturity: after we had experienced the world and/or when our place in
hierarchy gets stagnant, we want to slow down. Countryside is the best option.

------
ShinyCyril
I would highly recommend trying Wwoofing (World-wide Work on Organic Farms)
sometime. The premise is that in return for your help on the farm, the host
family provides you with food and accommodation for the duration of your
visit. My girlfriend and I spent just shy of a month in a little co-op in
Goolawah, Australia, and almost two months on a little farm owned by a
spritely old woman and her husband, just outside of Princeton. Waking up at
5AM to milk cows as the sun rises is a very liberating experience.

------
artursapek
I wonder how many people here will feel uncomfortable after reading this. I
wonder how many will realize this man pursued aspects of life that they've
been fantasizing about or putting of for "later."

I can relate somewhat, after having a child at a young age (22). My son makes
me feel more full of life than I ever felt before, when I really had nothing
and nobody to take care of besides myself. It sounds like the OP is way ahead
of me though.

~~~
emodendroket
Well, to each their own, but I don't fantasize about doing manual labor and
this article hasn't really changed my mind.

~~~
thatcat
It made me fantasize about automating manual labor as an alternative way of
engaging the physical world to direct manual labor.

------
tjic
This is funny ; I moved from the Cambridge MA area to a 50 acre farm in rural
NH a year ago. I could identify the brand of tractor and livestock nipples
from the pictures.

Everything in this article is 100% accurate, based on my own experiences of
the last 15 months.

Anyway, time to stop surfing news.yc and go check in on the pigs, then get
back to building the greenhouse.

------
downandout
What he doesn't say is that savings from his programming work have likely
enabled him to enjoy the "escape" of farm life while supporting two kids. How
many farm hands have enough free cash to support children and have a
computer/phone/internet connection from which to blog about the wonderful
experience?

------
Dangeranger
My first job at 12 years old was on a farm, I worked on farms until I was 16.
This post reminds me of what a demanding, exhausting, yet rewarding experience
farming is.

Changing professions to embrace an alternative lifestyle allows you to be
enriched more fully, and to gain the perspectives of each lifestyle you
experience.

It is my hope that the writer is able to apply the skills gained while writing
code to his new occupation and way of life. While I was working on farms my
mind was constantly working out how to apply efficiencies and work arounds to
common problems. I use those skills now in my day job as a programmer, but the
reverse could be applied in similarly effective ways.

Everyone should diversify their experiences. Too often a laser focus for
extended periods yields productivity at the expense of flexibility, and
eventual burnout. Over specialization can be as dangerous as generalization.

------
cnlwsu
Grass is always greener, my path was the opposite and I love the city and
being a software engineer.

------
codebeaker
Hardly related, but as a recent graduate from a cramped city apartment to
owning my own home, with space for a workshop and a reasonable sized (300m^2)
garden which was bare sand has been incredibly rewarding, I wake early on the
weekends, and spend time working in the garden, building furniture, tending to
my plants and building (well, once) fences. I look forward to sharing this
stuff with my son when he's older, and continuing to teach him that whilst I'd
love him to get a well -paying job, I'd prefer him to be happy.

------
joshrotenberg
I applaud the author for having the guts to make such a drastic change and see
it through. I get it.

I'd be curious to know, though, and without being too critical, how this
change affects his kids? Did they have to change schools? Leave friends and be
further away from family? I ask mainly because as a kid I was often a victim
of my mother's fickleness, and as a parent it has been a goal of mine to give
my kids the stability I didn't have. Again, not a judgement here, just
interested in hearing about that aspect of this endeavor.

------
niix
I can relate to this. I left San Francisco a few weeks ago and moved to South
Carolina. I love software development, and I'm not sure if I can trade it for
anything at this point and time in my life. I'm currently working remotely
from South Carolina and in the search for a nice house with some land, so I
can live a bit more rural while still being able to do what I love.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Same here, although I picked the west coast of Florida near Tampa.

~~~
niix
Crazy! I'm from Tampa originally haha.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Beers/coffee on me if you're ever back in town :)

------
thebouv
While I certainly don't see myself rushing off to work on a farm, I do feel a
bit lately like I'm looking for something "more". The day-to-day drudgery of
sitting in cubicle is slowly turning me sour.

I've made the first steps to more working at home (just asking my boss). I'll
start with 1 day a week and I'm already feeling great about that tiny shift.

------
saganus
One thing that might off topic or it might just be my lack of farming-related
knowledge, but, it seems in the third picture, the one with the calves (sp?)
drinking milk from bottles... aren't those bottles too high? I mean, it seems
like a very uncomfortable position to drink, no?

I'm obviously no cow or cow expert for that matter, but it just struck me as
odd.

~~~
xrange
Baby sheep are called lambs (which are pictured). "Calves" is the correct
plural spelling of the singular "calf", which are baby cows.

~~~
saganus
Aha! Thanks for the correction. I knew I might be off.

------
artur_makly
This brings up a utopian dream i've been having.

Imagine an self-sufficient community of designers, coders, families and
everyone in between working on socially-positive startups and putting in some
nominal personal time into the community farm. A 'commune' of the future.

------
RankingMember
I think lots of people feel like doing this, but few really get the chance
(make the decision) to. I know even just doing "dumb" outside work like mowing
the lawn makes me feel better, mentally and physically, after sitting in front
of a computer all day.

------
ChuckMcM
I have met a number of people over the years who have had similar
transformations. They went from doing what they believed the _should_ be
doing, to something they believed in/wanted to be doing. The transformation is
huge.

Life is way to short.

------
MyNameIsMK
Very refreshing. Hacking away at the keyboard day-in-day-out is definitely a
draining experience.

I enjoy talking walks once in a while and looking up at the sky. Its the
little things that keep us alive.

------
jkot
Cubicle != programmer. One can program and run company from a farm.

~~~
crpatino
In a way, he's doing that. Not the company thing, but he still holds a part
time job as a programmer.

But then, there is the issue of focus. How good can you get at both trades at
the same time, if people normally take years to go through only one of the
learning curves.

~~~
jkot
Those two jobs are not mutually exclusive. Programming is mentally demanding,
farm work physically (with some sleep deprivation). I think it is manageable
with good planning.

~~~
crpatino
Farm work is _exclusively_ physically demanding only if you want to be the
village idiot for ever. Machines (or for the matter, mules/oxen) are better
suited for this than humans.

While there is a lot of physical work in farming, you need to keep a fair
amount of tacit knowledge in your head and recall it almost instantly on an
unpredictable basis. This is specially true if you are working with animals
(which the OP is). It is not overly taxing to remember it all once you already
know it, but when you are a newbie you have to put the effort and learn it in
the first place.

More over, if you are learning it the traditional way (aka, following around
an old hand and do as told) you are expected to figure out the patterns and
learn on your own. This guys are no experts in pedagogy and since they are
just mimicking their own mentors, an explanation of what you've just seen/done
may or may not follow.

------
xentronium
Has anyone ever implemented a farming haven for programmers recovering from
burnout? Stories of downshifting are so popular it must have been done
somewhere.

~~~
pp19dd
This is just my opinion, but I think programmers aren't really special or
unique for going from programming to farming or other types of physical jobs.
I think that we just talk about it more online (and here in particular)
because we're digital natives. There are plenty of people that have done 180
degree turns out there, and they don't necessarily have forums where they can
share this need for change.

An old friend of mine was a car rental manager for ERAC. It's a stressful but
stable job with room for growth. He rose to a damage control supervisor
position at the Sacramento headquarters, then spent a couple of years feeling
depressed, thinking something is missing in his life. Fast forward to 5 years
later, and I find out he's now an offshore diver based out of Houston. From
office ties to diving suits, helmet, breathing hose, belt and breast weights,
and leaded feet. He couldn't be happier.

------
kul_
You my friend may just save an otherwise wasted life! Let me know if you are
hiring, I guess i would be really good in picking cow dung and grazing
cattles.

------
lnalx
As he said "say “Hello” to the real world is one that has paid me in ways that
money simply cannot". Totally agree, hoping to him a happy life.

------
yellowapple
Was this all because you encountered a MongoDB advocate?

------
cubano
Life is way too short to not do what your soul tells you to do, no matter what
that may be.

Congrats on finding something that soothes yours.

------
crimsonalucard
Coding is like running. Some people love it, some people hate it. Either way
it drains us. No one can run forever.

------
fit2rule
Sheep and farming are not incompatible with programming, or else: explain Jeff
Minter!

------
kang
First, make your living through the Internet from anywhere.

Then, use the Internet to decide where to live.

-balaji s

------
thewarrior
Might be interested to know that Kent Beck of XP fame is also a goat farmer.

------
litha
Your life will be all around so much better!

------
josemwarrior
another "burn out" case...

------
geggam
I am a bit envious.

------
hackyzack
I envy you.

------
heckubadu
Very nice!

------
michaelochurch
I admire this man for the honesty and courage to do something different. I
read the companion post and got to this:

 _Today, however, I sit here writing this post as a 32-year-old man with a
head of gray hair, a mind that cannot stop thinking a million miles a minute
about a million different things, and eyes that have only been open to the
digital world. I am burnt out on writing code. I am burnt out on
configuration. I am burnt out on automating monotonous tasks. I am burnt out
on completing tickets. I am burnt out on completing tickets that undo what
those other tickets accomplished. I am burnt out on debugging third-party
advertising code. I am burnt out on having 16 terminal tabs open. I am burnt
out on contributing to the “connected” culture. I am burnt out on having a “40
hour” work week that actually occupies the majority of my mental time. I am
burnt out on sitting at a desk. This state of being burnt out has invaded so
much of my out-of-work life that I have decided to take my Life back._

So much of that is congruent with my experience as well. Yet, for reasons that
seem hard to explain at first, I go deeper into the beast rather than move
away from it (and my choice is in no way superior). I love what technology
_can_ do-- liberate humanity from drudgery, improve the human quality of life,
make interactions and knowledge and discovery possible that wouldn't otherwise
be-- and I enjoy the intellectual challenge. I hate so much of what it's
_actually_ used to do: serve the short-term economic interests of power-
holders who are incompetent but don't want to give up their seats.

As much as I love being in the forest, I must be a natural urbanite because I
have a natural draw toward being in the main fight. Even with the risk and
clamor, I like carrying a sword (metaphorically speaking, since my chosen war
is cultural and therefore fought by typing rather than swinging a blade). I
feel like it is my destiny to be in the fight to take technology back from the
current crop of useless power-holders. I _want_ to be in this war, and I
really fucking want to win it, but I can't blame _anyone_ for wanting to get
the fuck out of it and work on a farm. It's an appealing idea.

I'm not anti-farming (I mean, I like food) but I also recognize that, without
technology, life would be a lot worse than it is right now. Not all of us can
be farmers, not anymore. Munching Jira tickets to appease some middle manager
may be a waste of life (nay, it is) but I still feel like _what we do_ as
technologists (or, at least, what we _can_ do) is important. We're a part of
evolution and progress... even if many of us get drawn down into nonsense.

Reading the OP, I'm really glad that he found work that enjoys and that gives
him a sense of purpose, and I hope that that never changes for him. I also
find it sad that technology gave him such a useless, negative experience
(munching tickets instead of driving forward progress) and see fit to take
that as a warning.

~~~
abawany
I caught on to the ticket comment as well - it certainly makes development
less joyful and more drudgery to me. I guess any attempt to turn software
development from a joyful, creative process into "Modern Times"-like drudgery
is saddening to me. Unfortunately, the world seems to be going the way of
making developers and their work a commodity.

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frade33
He did it.

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mobinni
You go girl!

~~~
bstamour
Found the person who only read the first few paragraphs.

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argon2424
I a completely blown away by what this guy did. And a huge kudos to him and
his boys!

