
Smartphone shipments: Apple down 30%, Samsung down 8%, Huawei up 50% - traderjane
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2019/05/01/smartphone-shipments-apple-down-30-samsung-down-8-but-huawei-up-50/#6cff807476b0
======
znpy
That's probably because smartphones are way too expensive.

Huawei and Xiaomi sold a lot of phones because their phone are good enough not
to make people miss iphones and stuff yet cost only a fraction.

Personally, I got a brand new Xiaomi phone for 200 euros off Amazon with a
4-core cpu, 5.5 inches display, 64 gb storage and 4 gb ram. So far it served
me good and has done everything I've needed.

I got an iPhone 6 from work for on-call availability, and it is actually
superior in many ways, but despite this in no way I'm going to drop 800-1100
euros on a phone.

~~~
ignoramous
> Personally, I got a brand new Xiaomi phone

Make sure to go over apps preinstalled (system apps) and disable them or take
away their network permission, if nothing else.

NetGuard, NoRoot Firewall, Glasswire are some of the apps that let you do
that.

~~~
yhoneycomb
Why? Because it's Chinese?

The amount of Sinophobia on here is ridiculous.

~~~
ignoramous
> Why?

Its good hygiene to rid of apps you have no use for. Note: Pre-installed apps
on OHA devices include Google's, too:
[https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-
on...](https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on-android-
controlling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/)

> Because it's Chinese?

\- Because its Android:
[https://techscience.org/a/2015103001/](https://techscience.org/a/2015103001/)

\- Because its Xiaomi: [https://thehackernews.com/2014/08/xiaomi-phones-
secretly-sen...](https://thehackernews.com/2014/08/xiaomi-phones-secretly-
sending-users.html)

Huawei, OnePlus, Nokia have been caught _spying_ on users, too. Lenovo,
famously, MiTMd TLS on their laptops. So, really, its the OEMs. And also the
SoC vendors and Carriers:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17081684](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17081684)
I digress.

> The amount of Sinophobia on here is ridiculous.

Not sure about that, but you might be onto something.

------
mwfunk
It's bizarre and misleading that the author didn't take the shifts in the
Chinese market in the last year or two into account. The article starts out
with a statement about smartphone sales being down in America across the
board, but then slips into analyzing worldwide sales numbers per vendor,
leading to the conclusion from the headline.

My understanding is that the majority of those shifts are from changing
patterns of sales within China itself. Looking at changes in worldwide
shipments without singling out how the market is changing amongst Chinese
consumers is really weird given that people who follow this stuff closely have
been talking about exactly that for a long time now.

If you treat the numbers within China separately from the numbers outside of
China (which makes sense because completely different forces are driving those
numbers inside and outside of China), then in the non-Chinese market, we would
see similar patterns (Apple and Samsung down, Huawei up) but on a much smaller
scale, and for different reasons. The author should've picked up on the
influence of the Chinese market and focused on why it's been changing so
dramatically of late. That would've been a far more insightful and interesting
article. This is just a bunch of numbers graphed for maximum drama without
context.

------
thetechlead
I start to believe what US has done to Huawei actually made the brand more
famous. Smart phones are becoming commodities so marketing plays a big rule
for sales. The tension between US government and Huawei certainly saved them
tons of marketing money. Three years ago even many Chinese don't know Huawei,
but look at what Huawei accomplished today. I travelled abroad frequently and
people are talking Huawei everywhere even a street vendor I randomly met in
nowhere Philippines, and they want to know more about my Huawei Porsche Design
and discuss why Americans feels threatened by a company making electronic
gadgets. No marketing money buys you that kind of popularity. In most places I
traveled to, people don't believe the American version of the story, and when
a superpower utilizes all its resources to try to destroy a company but
couldn't do? There must be something the company did right.

~~~
nroets
Huawei is using the standard mobile phone playbook: They have a lot of
carriers pushing their phones. They spend a lot on TV marketing. They opened
flagship stores in big malls. They got celebrities such as Scarlett Johansson
to promote their phones.

~~~
thetechlead
Not saying they don't spend big money in advertising. They certainly do, like
any other premium brand. However their marketing campaigns alone are nothing
extraordinary either. US governments accusation certainly helped - good
advertising makes people intrigued, just look at the nationalist comments
under Huawei related HN posts and try to read from a non-US POV. Not hard to
come to a state that you wonder what the hack is truely going on and what
really makes American feel so insecure. There must be something superior in
the accused that triggered the action. This is happening as a trend, not just
in Huaweis case, but in many topics related to China.

~~~
rasz
>However their marketing campaigns alone are nothing extraordinary either.

During last holidays almost every single commercial break in Polish TV had
Huawei ad.

~~~
thetechlead
Thank for the info. Though not the case where I live (China) and where I often
travelled (east Asia and ASEAN countries). However Huawei indeed put their
best effort in marketing in Europe.

------
alttab
I'm am American and recently moved to Europe. I had to get a new phone because
my old contract wasn't up. I had a LG G6 before, and ended up with a Huawei
P20 and can't imagine why someone would pay 3-4x for a Samsung or an iPhone.
The camera is phenomenal!

~~~
Jerry2
Huawei phones send info to China.

[https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3685669](https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3685669)

~~~
yhoneycomb
Seems like rampant vote manipulation is going on here to promote anti-Sinoism.

~~~
bilbo0s
In fairness, there's rampant vote manipulation to promote everything on HN. So
the Sino-philic camp is doing it too. kind of unfair to single out the Sino-
phobic camp in that regard.

I mean, if you're in a room full of pregnant high school girls, it makes no
sense to single one out as the "most" virgin. There are no virgins in the
room.

~~~
yhoneycomb
Dude what are you talking about

------
Theodores
Soon one of these brands will need to diversify the range in order to keep
people buying these things.

The market for people wanting a big battery is not mainstream huge but is a
tasty long tail.

The re-invented flip phone is going to be a win with the 50% of the population
that have smaller pockets in their trousers than what the other 50% have.

Then there is the outdoor sports market, the phones that are waterproof and
super tough.

If there is a diverse range of the same product in all of these form factors
then people will buy them as their life changes.

One flagship can't be the perfect hand rectangle for everyone. There is going
to have to be a more meaningful range, as happens with cars, laptops or even
bicycles.

Although times are not as growth crazy as they once were there is no need for
the market to become identical hand rectangles, there is still plenty of room
for product innovation even if there are no killer features on the way.

------
jhayward
I suspect Apple will be happy to keep taking 80%-90% of the profit in the
marketplace while only shipping 20% of units.

------
echevil
I bought a Xiaomi Mi Mix 3 for about $600 earlier this year to replace my old
iPhone and I'm quite happy with it. iPhone is sticking with that notch design
that I really hate, and it made me started to explore other options. Mi Mix 3
and Honor Magic 2 has a sleek slider design that removed the need to put front
facing camera directly on the screen. It's nice to have more options

~~~
pdimitar
To achieve the same as you, I replaced my iPhone X to 8 Plus and could not be
happier.

I grew to hate the notch and the rounded display corners. Give me a
rectangular screen and I'm content.

------
votepaunchy
Apple shipments were down, but the IDC numbers reported here by Forbes are way
off as noted by Xiaomi and other analysts:

[https://iphone.appleinsider.com/articles/19/05/03/ihs-
markit...](https://iphone.appleinsider.com/articles/19/05/03/ihs-markit-apple-
shipped-438m-iphones-in-q1-down-16-from-2018)

------
craftoman
Ex Samsung Galaxy S8 owner here. Dropped it 4-5 times and the screen went off.
I bought a Xiaomi Mi5, dropped it like 100 times and it still working without
a problem except for the battery. It started to drain quickly after the 2th
year of use which is normal and after all it costs 10 dollars for a brand new.

------
mattkevan
Forbes’ tech coverage is shameless clickbait, especially when it comes to
Apple.

The amount of articles they pump out along the lines of “Apple’s new phone/os
release/computer/service/whatever has a nasty secret.” is ridiculous.

------
colejohnson66
Everyone keeps mentioning that iPhones get more expensive, but when you look
at it (inflation adjusted), that’s not really true.[0] Apple is still charging
about $700 (inflation adjusted) for a phone just as they did when it was first
released. The only outliers are the SE, X, and Xs.

The only reason phones seemed cheaper is because AT&T would subsidize your
brand new iPhone 3G so you only paid a few hundred, not the full price.

[0]:
[http://static.digg.com/images/a24b0086e42c464fabd1652cf01f8a...](http://static.digg.com/images/a24b0086e42c464fabd1652cf01f8a41_a868a93a0a1b42d59ca22ac8c70db67f_1_post.png)

~~~
dragonwriter
> Everyone keeps mentioning that iPhones get more expensive, but when you look
> at it (inflation adjusted), that’s not really true.[

But your own source shows it's really true, and that the current cheaper, sub-
flagship iPhone model (XR) is more expensive than the flagship models of
previous generations up through the 5 and 5S, even adjusted for inflation, and
that the only non-increases for the top-of-line flagship from one year to the
next have been a few of the S models where the price dropped very slightly
from the prior-year non-S equivalent.

~~~
colejohnson66
True. But my point was that their phones don’t go up in price like people
think. Yes, if you compare $499 for a bottom tier 4GB iPhone 2G to $1449 for a
top of the line 512GB iPhone XS Max, they’re more expensive. But the cost for
the base model has hovered around the $700 mark when adjusted (save for the
few outliers such as the 2G, SE, X, and XS)

~~~
dragonwriter
> But the cost for the base model

If you mean the model with the number but no other modifier except sometimes
“S”, that's true up through the iPhone 8, but that “base model” isn't the same
place in the lineup in different generations.

That model is the _only_ (and thus flagship) model prior through the 5, but
the bottom of the line for the 6 through 8 (well, middle of the road for the 7
generation, since that's when the SE came out as a bargain basement offering.)
And for the X (same year as 8) and XS, it's just not even approximately true
anymore.

------
jseliger
Last summer I replaced an iPhone 6 or 6s with a 7 that cost about $500, or
half the cost of the new, high-end phones. I don't perceive the new ones to
offer 2x the value of a new or refurbished 7.

~~~
lostmsu
I've got a Xiaomi phone for $220. Large bright IPS screen, gestures, 4-5 days
on battery with all comms on (Nexus 6 did 1 day).

Only 2 drawbacks: not AMOLED (would add $100-$150, did not consider it worth),
mediocre camera, which I rarely use anyway.

~~~
kyriakos
5 times cheaper than top end Samsung or apple offerings means they had to cut
some corners. On the other hand if you buy xiaomi top end you get almost the
same quality as the other brands and it's still half price.

------
noirknight
Friday I had to waste precious pub time listening to my excited co-worker wax
poetic about the camera on his new Huawei phone and it’s night vision
capabilities. So this article was timely for me.

------
nkkollaw
Apple has been raising prices even with diminishing demand.

In Europe iPhones are more than €1000, and besides a few people most don't see
any value in newer models anymore and just stick to their current model for as
long as possible.

When they buy a new one, most people choose a budget model because nowadays
they work just as well (I guess Huawei's growth makes sense, then).

Personally, I also find all new iPhones extremely ugly. I have a Moto G5 and
not only does it work great, it doesn't have a notch and I paid 1/5 what an
iPhone costs.

~~~
cs02rm0
It seems a strategy so obvious and obviously doomed to fail, but I have to
assume Apple know what they're doing.

I think they're taking the same route on other product lines, the MBP
particularly stands out for me - most don't seem want recent "innovations"
used to justify runaway price increases.

I'm certainly watching this space with interest.

------
tanilama
Is it that hard to admit that Apple products can no longer command a premium
among its competitors? The company is now in a great trouble into irrelevancy
because of years' inaction.

~~~
colejohnson66
People have been spouting “Apple is going to fail” since their inception.
People said the original iPhone was a fail for many reasons such as “no one
wants a touchscreen” and more.[0] Until Apple fails, they’re not failing. They
definitely changed directions under Tim Cook, but that’s because he’s not
Steve Jobs. The Apple Watch has been a huge success with over 40% market
share.[1]

[0]: [https://mashable.com/2017/06/29/iphone-2g-original-
naysayers...](https://mashable.com/2017/06/29/iphone-2g-original-naysayers/)

[1]: [https://www.macrumors.com/2019/05/02/apple-
watch-1q19-market...](https://www.macrumors.com/2019/05/02/apple-
watch-1q19-market-share-counterpoint/)

~~~
tanilama
History doesn't always have predictive power over future, as no one would
predict Apple would have an epic comeback under Jobs. And Apple Watch is no
replacement for iPhone, which has been Apple's lifeline over the past 5 years.

Apple is in trouble because it doesn't have next iPhone, or iPhone4 to excite
consumers. Adding incremental upgrade to iPhone while hiking up the price, is
now a failed strategy and the market is punishing Apple for it. Only this
time, they have nothing to offer.

Pivoting to service, where they aren't particularly competitive anyway, is
like a pre-claimed surrender that they don't have the confidence to make their
hardware business as profitable as it was.

I didn't see why people would be optimistic about Apple right now, except for
the huge cash reserve they had because of iPhones. If they don't think out of
box, they will be forgotten pretty soon, just like Nokia.

~~~
scarface74
_Pivoting to service, where they aren 't particularly competitive anyway, is
like a pre-claimed surrender that they don't have the confidence to make their
hardware business as profitable as it was_

Would you have said the same about Netflix moving from shipping DVDs to
streaming or Amazon moving into the cloud vendor from retai?

There is no next big thing on the horizon that is going to have a market where
almost 70% penetration like the mobile phone except maybe social media.

But if you look at Apple’s latest earnings, services is already growing like
crazy.

------
mnm1
Smartphone innovation stopped a few years ago and the general public is
finally catching on. At the same time, there is little difference between
cheap models and expensive ones. Taking both of these into account, Apple
still increased their prices significantly counting on their brand as a
fashion statement more than anything. It should be no surprise that sales are
significantly down overall and especially for Apple. I expect this trend to
continue and likely accelerate in the future.

~~~
scarface74
I bought my son a cheap Moto G because they were always touted as being a good
value. He was more than happy when I upgraded and he got my 6s that was two
years older. There is a stark performance difference between a mid range
current Android phone and iPhones that are two or three years older.

------
ableal
I wondered about the asterisks on the 'vivo' and 'OPPO' brands, and looked up
the second name - turns out both (and OnePlus) are owned by the same company:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBK_Electronics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBK_Electronics)

So, going by the shown IDC numbers, that company has shipped over 46 million
phones in 1Q19, getting about 15% market share and third place behind Samsung
and Huawei.

------
noja
Give me a smartphone I can install with what I want.

~~~
realusername
Installing what you want is generally pretty easy, it's uninstalling what you
want the main issue. Phones are coming loaded with bloatware you can't
uninstall.

~~~
noja
I want my phone like a PC: I can choose the OS with no weird outdated binary
blob requirements.

~~~
realusername
It's pretty impossible to achieve even with a custom ROM unfortunately, even
on LineageOS, you have a proprietary-files.txt for each model listing all the
blobs you need to make your phone work.

------
nafey
Check out Dave2d's YouTube video about the same topic. Essentially it is
argued that phones are going to become a commodity like printers. But he
concludes that Apple is likely to escape that fate due to their ecosystem.
Regardless time for change in the phone industry.

~~~
vatueil
Link for reference:
[https://youtu.be/otHviixLykI](https://youtu.be/otHviixLykI)

------
jjtheblunt
I genuinely wonder how it is that Forbes is so consistently an anti-Apple
propaganda rag.

It's not subtle, is shockinly consistent, and I wonder how they can think
their implausible bias serves their purpose as a "news" outlet.

------
NicoJuicy
I've never been a fan of Apple because of price. I liked the Google Nexus a
lot, until the prices rose also.

Now on a S9 from work.

Fyi: I still prefer the bare Android experience and not the Samsung shell
though

~~~
scarface74
So you’ve never been a fan of the iPhone for the price but the Samsung Galaxy
S9 costs the same as an iPhone 8 ($600)....

~~~
NicoJuicy
From work, all information was supplied.

I didn't pick the phone

------
samfisher83
Huanwei is pretty expensive too.

------
cm2012
Isn't it likely every Huawei is backdoored by the Chinese government?

~~~
Gene_Parmesan
Isn't it likely every phone sold in the US is backdoored by the US government?

I'm honestly not sure what to do about phones these days. It's getting to the
point where I don't want one, but I essentially need one for work.

~~~
merpnderp
Isn’t that demonstrably untrue given terrorist attacks and shootings that go
undetected even though evidence was later found on their phones?

~~~
acct1771
Just because you're capturing a bunch of data doesn't mean you're parsing
it/piping it correctly.

Just ask William Binney, et al, re: 911.

