

Is MySQL becoming less open source? Test cases go internal now - bytebot
http://blog.mariadb.org/disappearing-test-cases/

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koko775
So basically, the Java strategy. Killing the alternatives through creating
compatibility uncertainty. Oh, man. This doesn't bode well.

I hope this drives developers towards using and improving Postgres, but, well,
who knows. One can dream!

More likely is that it may drive people towards Percona, which I have on good
word is a solid professional MySQL branch...or, like Java, people will just
stick with the brand. :/

EDIT: adding links for the curious.

Percona: <http://www.percona.com/>

Background on the Java stuff: [http://arstechnica.com/information-
technology/2010/12/apache...](http://arstechnica.com/information-
technology/2010/12/apache-resigns-from-jcp-in-protest-of-oracle-governance-
failures/) (the difference is that MySQL never did have open governance, so
there was nobody to quit in a justified huff)

~~~
ChuckMcM
I would think one would need to look no further than the Oracle/Google lawsuit
and its outcome with respect to Java to see how Oracle will move forward with
MySQL.

~~~
taligent
Java has been greatly improved since Oracle took over the helm. Major
improvements to the JVM, an exciting yet stable roadmap, better platform
support (in particular on OSX) and a lot more confidence about its future.

Oracle has been nothing but a huge positive for the Java platform.

~~~
koko775
> Oracle has been nothing but a huge positive for the Java platform. For the
> OpenJDK Java implementation, definitely. For free and open alternatives? No,
> not at all.

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LyndsySimon
MySQL is as popular as it is because it has been free (as in beer), and
relatively easy to set up and use.

The time for that has come and gone. MySQL's shortcomings limit its use in
many corporate and professional settings, and the alternatives are now much
easier to use.

If I were looking to become a DBA today, I would study PostgreSQL. Likewise,
if I were developing a new web application, MySQL wouldn't even make my list.

~~~
taligent
MySQL is as popular as it is because EVERYONE is using it.

Which means that all of the really hard scalability and management problems
have already been solved every which way. And all available for free by
companies you know and trust e.g. Facebook, Twitter.

If I were looking to become a DBA today I wouldn't bother with PostgreSQL at
all. I would learn all of the NoSQL databases because that is where all of the
interest is right now. Due to the increase use of agile in software
development databases need to be flexible with the schema controlled by
developers not DBAs.

~~~
mgkimsal
Or you could, you know, learn multiple things, because very few companies that
need scalability are best served by doing everything in only one technology.
Or, for that matter, hiring people who only know one technology.

There's a hell of a lot of useful stuff to learn (practical and theoretical)
from relational databases. NoSQL has some useful ideas too. However,
advocating that someone wanting to be considered a "database administrator"
_only_ learn/focus on NoSQL - that's just poor advice.

~~~
taligent
Funny that you chose to reply to me instead of the parent. Learning just
PostgreSQL is also poor advice.

Most DBAs will already know Oracle and MySQL and my point was that they would
be much better advised learning a NoSQL database. Of course if you're a new
DBA you should learn a relational database I just fail to see why on earth
anybody would recommend PostgreSQL over Oracle/MySQL which are far, far, more
popular.

~~~
cstejerean
Oracle might be popular, but few places can afford, or justify paying for it.
MySQL is mostly popular because everyone was busy cargo culting based on what
Facebook and YouTube were doing instead of evaluating the choices on their
merits. Luckily most of those people have moved on to cargo culting NoSQL
choices.

If you want a solid open-source database, especially one that has a future,
learn Postgres.

~~~
taligent
I love armchair experts.

So I guess if all of those clueless engineers at the world's most trafficked
websites would have just listened to you they would never have picked MySQL.
Have you ever thought of letting them know that they should switch over to
PostgreSQL ?

~~~
cstejerean
The engineers and Facebook might have selected MySQL on merits. Or they might
be stuck with trying to do the best with legacy choices. I don't know what the
best solution is for them today, and it might not be either Postgres or MySQL.

If however you need to make a choice today for what database to use on a new
project, then you should evaluate the choices instead of basing your decision
on what might have been best for Facebook 8 years ago.

I'm not going to get into the technical differences here, because even if
MySQL and Postgres were technically equivalent (and they aren't but I'll let
you do your own research), I simply don't trust Oracle with the future of
MySQL.

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techtalsky
This is a MySQL discussion, but I think it's worth it to say what two things I
think keep Postgres from becoming the viable worldwide use-by-default
contender that MySQL became:

1\. Branding. First and foremost. MySQL had great documentation, an
identifiable logo, and a wonderful name that every non-technical person could
remember and identify. Postgresql is just, well, it's a horrible nightmare of
a name. People would like to think this doesn't matter but: of course it does.

2\. A really slick installer for Windows. You could say this is branding and
to some extent it is, but MySQL and its admin tools have a really friendly
installer that lets intermediate developers without a lot of DB experience get
it up and running with their development environments quickly. I admit it's
been a while since I used Postgres's but the fit and polish wasn't there.

~~~
jeffdavis
Let's keep this on topic: in what specific ways has postgresql been more open,
and how does that lead to a better developer community and greater value for
users?

I happen to think the postgres docs are great, and they are open and free
unlike the MySQL docs. I have tried following one MySQL doc, only to see it
change later and have no way to see the old version. Not a problem for
postgres.

If you have some suggestions for the docs please submit them to the docs
mailing list.

Postgres also has 15+ years of history in git, which is extremely helpful.

Honestly, I don't know where to start. Postgres is an open community project
to the core and benefits from that in so many ways.

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TheRealDunkirk
[http://www.engineyard.com/blog/2012/postgresql-is-our-new-
de...](http://www.engineyard.com/blog/2012/postgresql-is-our-new-default/)

Despite the reasons they gave, did they see the writing on the wall that made
this the time to make the leap?

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debacle
I haven't yet used one of the recent MySQL forks, but I have a feeling the
next time I'm using an OSS solution that requires a MySQL variant, I wont be
using MySQL.

~~~
abenga
I was recently looking at the alternatives available, and thought that Drizzle
[<http://www.drizzle.org/>] looks really great.

~~~
dbart
Drizzle is not a drop-in replacement for MySQL. The only real option if you
want to replace MySQL without having to change your application code is
MariaDB. Drizzle is fine for new projects, but you'd have to massively alter
an existing site to get it to work with Drizzle.

~~~
koko775
I don't think it's fair to say MariaDB is the _only_ real option. The CTO of
the company I work at seems to be a pretty firm advocate for Percona.

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ilaksh
I think MariaDB should be a viable alternative, right?

~~~
dbart
Absolutely. It's been a viable alternative for some time now.

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TazeTSchnitzel
So, time for LibreSQL?

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naner
MariaDB is the free (GPL) branch (actually more of a fork at this point)
created by Monty, the primary original author of MySQL.

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cwisecarver
Is anyone actually using MariaDB in production at a reasonable scale? Our DBAs
tried to convince us to switch from MySQL to Maria a few months ago. All of
the devs on my team looked around and couldn't find any testimonials, use-
cases or benchmarks that weren't done by someone on the Maria dev team. I
realize Monty is behind it but I don't really feel like being an early adopter
based on fear that some day Oracle might do something bad with MySQL.

~~~
latimer
I use MariaDB on all of my websites these days, the largest of which tops out
at around 5K queries a second. The biggest draw for me was the XtraDB engine
(which is also found in Percona Server) which is a replacement for InnoDB.
XtraDB performs much better on SSDs and I was able to get over 50% performance
gains on some queries with the default settings. This may or may not be
applicable to your specific environment, but it is a drop-in replacement so
it's very easy to just install it on a test box and stress test it with your
current code.

~~~
AaronBBrown
To be clear, XtraDB is solely developed _by_ Percona. MariaDB has nicely
included it, not the other way around.

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latimer
I was just pointing out that Percona Server is another MySQL drop-in
replacement since the commenter seems to be asking about an enterprise
environment which Percona Server is targeted more towards than MariaDB. You're
right I should have clarified that XtraDB is a product of Percona.

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sandGorgon
Does someone know of a _really good_ (performance + corner cases) migration
tool for MySql - > Postgres.

It looks like there are a ton of roll-your-own, but none as good as, say, "git
svn clone"

~~~
nantes
I can't really speak to performance or corner cases outside of our (admittedly
small) needs, but one of our developers had good luck with mysql2postgres --
<https://github.com/maxlapshin/mysql2postgres/>

