
Redacted memo justifying drone strikes on US citizens [pdf] - bjfish
https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets/2014-06-23_ca2-revised-opinion-plus-drone-memo.pdf
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peterkelly
Could someone from the US please explain the whole thing behind US
citizens/foreigners being considered deserving of different levels of
protection with regards to human rights? Are those of us not blessed with US
citizenship somehow less "worthy"? Is it really the case that conducting
surveillance or drone strikes against foreigners is any different, morally and
ethically, than those against US citizens?

To be honest, from an outsider's view this comes across as a very arrogant and
entitled attitude. I most certainly sympathise with and share the outrage many
Americans feel about their government's abuses of human rights, but there
seems to be a view among some quarters that it's only because they're
Americans that it's a problem, and forget everyone else. I've also seen this
attitude in my own country (Australia) with regards to some of our regional
neighbours.

What happened to "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are
created equal"?

I realise that to some that these questions may come across as trolling, but
I'm genuinely curious about how we arrived at this state of affairs.

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toufka
This separation is entirely how US citizens invest powers into their own
government. It's not so much that certain people have rights that others do
not, rather, US citizens will permit certain parts of their own government to
carry out some actions against 'others', that it does not parmit to carry out
against itself. It's why the US has the Posse Comitatus Act - to have police
deal with disturbances amongst citizens, and military deal with disturbances
with other nations. There are separate rules when dealing with one's own
bosses (even when different from the status quo), then when dealing with one's
enemies. There is a significant difference in how one expects a hostile,
unknown, or even an allied group to behave, and your own group. The US
government _is_ its citizens, so it would be quite dysfunctional (as a
government) for it to become adversarial to itself in a way that does not
occur were it to become adversarial to those whom it is not.

The idea that the government (of its people) can in any way justify killing
those same people without due cause quickly leads to the government no longer
being of the people (in a way that targeted killing of non-citizens does not).

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xamdam
I'm honestly lost around the US citizen issue. I mean since Ted Bundy was a US
citizen he should be more protected during an act of violence? Or are citizens
of other countries valued less? If someone is an active combatant for whatever
the "other side" is, and we're ok using drones, then it's on as far as I'm
concerned. (I'm a US citizen for context)

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VonGuard
I think the issue is whether or not the government can "disappear" people. In
other countries, we've already been doing this for decades, but in theory, at
least, it doesn't happen to US citizens. If the US is allowed to just send a
drone strike on a US citizen, who is otherwise entitled to due process, the
thinking is that the government can just ignore due process and start killing
people from afar. Bad precedent.

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ambiate
As a democracy and regardless of citizenship, doesn't _everyone_ deserve due
process? The first thought that crosses my mind are Canadian terrorist
mounties with snow wolves, snow mobiles, alcohol and aboots. Would they be
droned by the US or captured and trialed?

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SatoshiPacioli
> As a democracy and regardless of citizenship, doesn't _everyone_ deserve due
> process?

Not if they are an imminent threat.

~~~
rational-future
>> Not if they are an imminent threat

to the corrupted establishment.

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ciderpunx
The actual memo begins on page 67

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PMan74
Thanks, I gave up after a few pages

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panarky
Since when are redactions shown as white space on a white background?

Is this standard procedure, or is it to deliberately obscure what has been
censored?

