
Pay/receive Universal Basic Income without middlemen - eliomattia
https://www.reddit.com/r/BasicIncome/comments/fdl5fw/thrubi_demand_for_basic_income_meets_supply/
======
nabla9
These kind of voluntary schemes completely miss the point of government and
UBI.

There are certain systems that work well only if they are universal. There is
a reason why we don't have car insurance where you only pay voluntarily.
Government and taxation is similar system. It's not charity or free money.
It's more like insurance scheme.

~~~
eliomattia
Interesting! Government(-backed) UBI is the ultimate goal. But how to make it
happen?

First, why has it not happened already? All the data indicate that it's good.
A no-brainer, then? Well, \- It's expensive \- Governments vest financial
power in businesses, not in themselves.

End results? 1) A very oiled mechanism for income concentration, no questions
asked 2) No mechanism for income distribution (!) 3) Blaming the government
for not providing UBI already 4) No UBI, be it voluntary or government 5) Many
people, who in fact want to contribute towards it, cannot.

Why not start by creating that mechanism for income distribution, then?

A quote about Sam Altman[1]:

«Altman suggests researching Universal Basic Income. (Y Combinator has already
begun work on a UBI project in Oakland.) “We should set a goal of eliminating
poverty in the country,” Altman writes on his website. “I’m not yet sure what
a reasonable timeframe for this goal is, but I do feel a moral obligation to
figure out how to do it.” Unions aren’t working, Altman says, and wages are
stagnant, so we need something better, even though he isn’t sure what that is
yet.»

Some examples of people who would like to contribute, yet cannot: \- Nick
Hanauer[2,3] \- Letter for a wealth tax[4], not exactly on income but on
wealth, yet indicative of the supply \- The Giving Pledge[5] \- Yusaku
Maezawa[6] \- Andrew Yang[7,8] has just brought together donors who are
pledging millions for UBI \- Patriotic Millionaires[9] \- The World Economic
Forum @ Davos is also "on the topic"[10] \- Resource Generation[11] \- Wealth
for Common Good[12] – the project seems inactive, yet meaningful

References: [1] [https://theoutline.com/post/2063/sam-altman-united-
slate?zd=...](https://theoutline.com/post/2063/sam-altman-united-
slate?zd=4&zi=iw27g56w) [2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2gO4DKVpa8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2gO4DKVpa8)
[3]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBx2Y5HhplI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBx2Y5HhplI)
[4] [https://medium.com/@letterforawealthtax/an-open-letter-to-
th...](https://medium.com/@letterforawealthtax/an-open-letter-to-
the-2020-presidential-candidates-its-time-to-tax-us-more-6eb3a548b2fe) [5]
[https://givingpledge.org/](https://givingpledge.org/) [6]
[https://www.businessinsider.com/japanese-billionaire-
maezawa...](https://www.businessinsider.com/japanese-billionaire-maezawa-
in-9-million-social-experiment-giveaway-2020-1?IR=T) [7]
[https://twitter.com/thrubi_org/status/1235700880940429314](https://twitter.com/thrubi_org/status/1235700880940429314)
[8]
[https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/status/1235625855570804736](https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/status/1235625855570804736)
[9] [https://patrioticmillionaires.org/](https://patrioticmillionaires.org/)
[10] [https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/01/davos-leaders-
agree-w...](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/01/davos-leaders-agree-we-
should-share-more-of-the-worlds-wealth-or-face-the-populist-consequences/)
[11] [https://resourcegeneration.org/what-we-do/#our-
methods](https://resourcegeneration.org/what-we-do/#our-methods) [12]
[https://wealthforcommongood.org/](https://wealthforcommongood.org/)

~~~
nabla9
> Why not start by creating that mechanism for income distribution, then?

There already is. People get payments from the government every day.

[https://www.vox.com/future-
perfect/2020/2/7/21125303/alaska-...](https://www.vox.com/future-
perfect/2020/2/7/21125303/alaska-basic-income-birth-rate-fertility)

~~~
eliomattia
True, though just for a bunch of small groups of people, out of the 7.7+
billion on this planet. We are restricted to "pilots", if you look at the
world at large. What can catalyze basic income for all? I bet creating a
channel for it to flow where governments aren't that advanced, yet. Only then
will people start feeling what it means to be recipients. How many inhabitants
does Alaska have compared to the world population? (less than 0.01%) How many
recipients will Andrew Yang have on his donation-based plan before he can
convince the government in 2024 or 2028? (not sure) How many people in the US
compared to the world? (4.25%) I'm talking of this happening on a worldwide
scale in 3 years rather than 3 decades. And the limiting factor right now
isn't the availability of money, but the lack of a channel. Sure, governments
need to be involved for it to be stable, but right now it's simply too high
stakes and they simply won't do it.

