
Investor Shervin Pishevar Accused of Sexual Misconduct by Multiple Women - KKKKkkkk1
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-01/uber-investor-shervin-pishevar-accused-of-sexual-misconduct-by-multiple-women
======
zymhan
I'm glad people are coming forward about this. Predatory men contribute to the
culture of toxicity and hostility towards women in tech, and we need to toss
the bums out of our industry.

~~~
mirimir
I'm glad too. Female friends have shared disturbing stories about advances by
professors, supervisors, buyers, and others with influence over their lives. I
mean, "sexretary" was a cliche, a few decades ago. For the most part, they
were testing for potential victims.

I'm guessing that this could become a substantial purge.

~~~
indubitable
The interesting thing is that this is also going to change the status quo, in
perhaps unexpected ways. There's no doubt the vast majority of these claims
are true, yet there's also no doubt that this is really ratcheting up the
concern of many employers about the possibilities when being alone with female
employees. And then social events, most of which involve alcohol, are going to
ramp that concern up to 11.

It's possible that this is already happening to some degree. One of Ellen
Pao's complaints against Kleiner Perkins is that females were not invited to
some social outings with the other partners/execs. As this becomes a more
serious issue, and like you - I am expecting an ongoing purge, the status quo
is going to be shaken in ways other than taking out the trash.

~~~
mirimir
I don't see why it should greatly affect group events. Because there are so
many witnesses. But working lunches and dinners, yes. Not to mention those
all-nighters in hotel rooms to tweak presentations.

------
cantrip
It's insane that this article outs one of the alleged victims based on other's
account of what happened even though she herself declined to comment.

Women should be given the freedom to disclose these things on their own terms
and this has been taken away from her.

~~~
indubitable
So this is to say that if a person involved in a crime refuses to comment on
it, nobody should be allowed to? And as we are a society of innocent until
proven guilty -- in cases where somebody is accused, should the media not be
allowed to publish corroborating statements until the accused has had their
say on their own terms?

I can certainly see an emotional argument for what you're saying, but
logically I don't think this is very cogent.

~~~
cantrip
Yes, I believe that journalists should not be basing their reporting on
hearsay.

I think there's a logical argument to be made that if you have one victim who
does not wish to speak publicly but multiple other women who will, you respect
the privacy of that woman.

------
tabeth
I feel that the quantity of these reports has been increasing since the whole
Weinstein incident.

I wonder if it is because there's more comfort in finally sharing or because
reporters are looking for scoops more.

Either way, it's good I think.

~~~
pjc50
And inevitably it's being co-opted into the media wars.
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/a-woman-
approa...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/a-woman-approached-
the-post-with-dramatic--and-false--tale-about-roy-moore-sje-appears-to-be-
part-of-undercover-sting-
operation/2017/11/27/0c2e335a-cfb6-11e7-9d3a-bcbe2af58c3a_story.html)

~~~
maxerickson
That's a very generous description of the dumbassery perpetrated by Project
Veritas there.

------
epx
Jesus, what's wrong with these men?!

~~~
krapp
Society often encourages and rewards sexual aggression and dominance in
successful men - such behavior is symbolic of their status and virility, and
has been since the days when sultans collected women in harems. Society is
just an abstraction of primate hierarchies built on violence and sex with a
thin veneer of civility applied, not that that excuses anything. But the point
is, this behavior isn't unusual.

It's valid to ask what's wrong with these men, but you should also ask what's
wrong with cultures which reinforce predatory masculinity and allow it to
propagate.

~~~
epx
I mean, being rich and powerful already makes a whole lot easier for a man to
conquest women (and vice-versa), I don't like it but that's the way it is -
just riding a better car creates a lot of opportunities like I have myself
experimented - so why bother forcing your way?

~~~
indubitable
I would imagine the situation for many of these people is not as great as
you're framing it.

For the most part the accused have been unusually physically unattractive and
to say their personalities don't make up for it would be quite the
understatement. So they have a situation where if somebody is interested in
them it's almost certainly because they're interested in their money. And if
they hide their wealth from people - then nobody would be any more interested
in them than your average aging unattractive individual.

So sure they can get laid by prostitutes and gold diggers, but that in many
ways has to be incredibly emasculating. Imagine how awful it must be to know
that if somebody shows interest in you, that they're probably lying to you and
just after your money. The wife of Weinstein was a head and shoulders
commercial girl. George Clooney's wife is a high profile lawyer whose clients
include Julian Assange, the former PM of Ukraine, etc. Anecdotal, but there
are plenty of very attractive and charismatic wealthy individuals. Yet, at
least for now, it seems like they're not the ones engaged in this behavior.
And _there_ I would imagine it's because your stereotyping holds much more
true.

------
JoeAltmaier
This is all well and good, high-profile folks getting repercussions for their
abusive behavior. But how does this help the folks down behind the counter at
KFC, or on the factory floor, or at the dry-cleaners? I hope some cultural
change comes of all this, else its just more celebrity gossip.

~~~
zymhan
If the top people at a company can be publicly named and shamed, then that
hopefully conveys the idea that this behavior won't be tolerated on any level.

~~~
matte_black
It could also backfire and show that the only people worth reporting on are
those at the top, since that’s all we hear about.

------
dboreham
Wondering how long before we don't have enough douchebags left to run the
place.

~~~
QAPereo
Well never run out, they’ll just select for new cryptic colorations and
evasive behaviors. Fools and assholes are humanity’s greatest resources.

------
kolbe
Sexuality has value. Our system will continue to be in a chaotic
disequilibrium until we can find a way to manage the fact that sexuality has
as much value as money and power, and that it is impossible to separate it
from business.

But where we're at now, sexuality is just feared by timid people, and
exploited by scumbags.

------
lukateake
Why omit "Uber" from the title on HN?

~~~
saas_co_de
As much as I enjoy piling on Uber, this seems to have nothing to do with them,
and is just there for clickbait.

~~~
lukateake
HN policy has always been to leave the title intact.

And I, for one, find his affiliation with Uber to be of particular interest
given Susan Fowler's story.

~~~
ams6110
Not true. It is permitted to neutralize a clickbait title if the story is
otherwise worthy.

~~~
lukateake
Without looking at Crunchbase, please name one other investment of Shervin
Pishevar that has the cultural reach of Uber. I suspect a randomly selected
person would not be able to do so. And Uber has a well documented history of
hostile or discriminatory behavior that hews close to the article's topic.

~~~
Fnoord
Keeping or removing Uber is a complex decision:

He's a little bit more than merely an Uber investor. Quoting: "He is a
strategic advisor to Uber, and served as a board advisor to the company from
2011–2015." [1]

He also invested in many more companies than merely Uber. [1]

Therefore a case can be made for both keeping Uber as well as removing Uber
from the title.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shervin_Pishevar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shervin_Pishevar)

------
myf01d
All the men accused of sexual misconduct share the same trait: they are all
rich!

~~~
merraksh
The poor have less chance of being famous, and hence of being in the spotlight
for such accusations.

~~~
eropple
In the spheres being reported on, yes. On the other hand, something I find
interesting is that there are plenty of nontrivial YouTube creators with large
followings, and more than one of them has been outed as a scumbag (which was
low-key happening before #MeToo, in a way that actually-powerful people seemed
immune).

------
dominotw
Why can't we put these people behind bars. What is going on, is this not
really a crime in societies eyes.

~~~
craftyguy
Public accusation != conviction of crime

~~~
crankylinuxuser
That's OK. The Internet Mob agrees and will "Execute" anyone they see fit via
job loss, death threats, vandalism, and destitution. But, that's OK, at least
according to the comments I received.

For some reason, "We're" happy with extralegal punishments, and then sweeping
them away as some sort of 'rights of the employers'. More and more claims are
being made by a single person, and used to fire and blackball them. It's Salem
Witch Trials all over again, but with respect to "Sexual Harassment".

THIS is a problem:

[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/internet-shaming-when-mob-
justi...](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/internet-shaming-when-mob-justice-goes-
virtual/)

[https://www.newstatesman.com/voices/2014/01/dangers-
public-s...](https://www.newstatesman.com/voices/2014/01/dangers-public-
shaming-mob-justice-and-scolding-internet)

[https://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/dec/20/social-
media-t...](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/dec/20/social-media-
twitter-online-shame)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1d34nj/student_w...](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1d34nj/student_wrongly_tied_to_boston_bombing_found_dead/)

Edit: I see the -1's hit me again. I've made the case there is some real
problems with the way Mob Justice is being handled. That includes up to the
death of people indicated. Now I'm not calling for the protection of sexual
predators. I AM calling for due process before we start throwing people under
the bus.

------
crankylinuxuser
So, how much more "Accusations" will arise, that are acted upon with firings,
and no criminal anything results?

I'm getting rather fed up with "Sexual * accusation leads to firing" again and
again and again. How about proof/courtcase/dismissal if guilty? What about the
rights of the accused, or are we going to stand for "Social Media Courtroom"
slamming out guilty verdicts?

Edit: I'm trying to open up a dialog about the rights of accusers AND accused.
The ramifications here are "Loss of income, loss of house, approaching poverty
and destitution". The current trend is using "Virtual Mob Justice" \- whom
here agrees with this approach? I sure don't. I've seen what Mobs will get
you, and it ain't pretty.

~~~
zymhan
Nearly all of the people tossed out of their jobs for these claims fessed up
to being creeps.

A company doesn't need to win a court case to fire someone. You're not
entitled to a job. This is America.

No one is locking these people up without a trial. However, being shunned by
most of society does not require a court case.

~~~
ams6110
> Nearly all of the people tossed out of their jobs for these claims fessed up
> to being creeps.

I agree, as far as we know this is what has been happening. An exception being
Roy Moore, as far as I know he has stridently denied the accusations made
against him.

I do think GP has identified a slippery slope. Not everyone is honorable and
some people will start to get the idea that they can take down a boss they
don't like by simply leveling a sexual assault charge. If in today's climate
there is a presumption of guilt rather than innocence, or even an attitude
"easier to fire him than deal with an investigation" then pray you're never on
the wrong side of that scenario.

~~~
tomp
I expect many powerful men to adopt Mike Pence's philosophy - never being
alone with a woman unless it's his wife - to manage the risk of (potentially
fake) accusations.

~~~
crankylinuxuser
Well, yeah.

Hell, and there a ton of craziness that goes on in the dating scene. If I was
still dating, I'd record with my phone, to prove "No, (s)he did consent.
Here's the proof." The opposite of this, is fighting off a potential rape
allegation. That scares the living fuck out of me, since a buddy had that
happen.

But maybe there's a case for a device that records, in a sealed storage. Think
of it as insurance on claims of wrongdoing.

I've also been sexually harassed by a manager (I'm a guy, manager was a
woman). Worked at a subway. She grabbed my ass deep enough she fondled my
testicles. Turns out the district manager came in the back door. Fired her on
the spot. Makes me a weird exception, in that it was female doing to male
subordinate, and it was solved.

