
Ask HN: Bipolar is affecting my performance badly. Should I tell my employer? - throwrawaygr0v
This is a difficult topic to talk. Sadly, many people do not even talk, and many with bipolar disorder commit suicide.<p>I know what it is to be in the dark cycle of bipolar. Last week, some personal issues triggered me to go from highly optimistic to extremely pessimistic.<p>I don&#x27;t know how to tell my employer that my mind in in another planet right now. I might loose might job since it has been 4 days I do not work (2 sick, 2 because of this).<p>The company is based in the US but fully remote. I am under a contract (and I am not US citizen), while values and culture is something that seemed to be important, recent weeks had been lots of changes and drama inside that I don&#x27;t think anyone would be able to put even themselves in my place.<p>I am burnt out. Personally and professionlly. I am under therapy and well surrunded. But just need a week break.<p>Last but not least, the company has a &quot;unlimited vacation policy&quot; and they say they force employees to go into vacation. In my last year, no one told me how or when. I think because some internal problems that we need ship fast and soon (or company might go bankrupt) they forgot this, which is not helping.<p>Should I just ask for vacation in the middle of the fire that we have inside? (I would look terrible to my co-workers&#x2F;team)
Should I disclose I have bipolar? if so, how?<p>I personally don&#x27;t think anyone how is unfamiliar with bipolar disorder has any idea how hard life can turn. Even the most mundane task, turns into a hell.<p>Thank you
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tweedledee
I used to be bi-polar, I now manage it with strict regiment of exercise, diet,
and sleep.

After an extended manic episode I started getting paranoid and was
underperforming at work. I ended up seeking help and was diagnosed. I told HR
and my boss and was put on a performance improvement plan shortly afterwards.
It’s just a round about way of slowly getting fired which is way more
stressful. I worked for one of the major internet companies.

My advice would be not to tell anyone at work, let them fire you if you have
to, it’s not the end of the world. Then make the lifestyle changes needed to
manage your condition and build your new life around that. Unfortunately there
is a stigma that will be impossible to get rid of and people will talk. This
will impact future employment prospects worse than underperforming for a short
period. The odds are you’ll be in the industry for a while and you’ll be
better off eating a temporary setback than a more permanent one.

If you need an excuse to take time off it’s way better to blame burnout. I’d
recommend taking a week of vacation citing burnout. Get some sun, go surfing.
If they say no, I’d go anyway, and see if they change their mind by the time
your back.

BTW HR is there to protect the company from lawsuits, not to help you in
anyway.

But seriously; do what ever you have to to make lifestyle changes.

EDIT: I’m also a foreigner so I lost my work visa when I was let go. This was
in 2009 and it was my first job. Few places were hiring in 2009 and I had
diminishing savings. I stayed in the US as a tourist and did a visa run to
Canada a couple of times. The third time they said I couldn’t do that anymore
and only gave me a few weeks to pack my things and go back to my country. In
my final week I got a job at different major internet company so I hung out in
Canada until a new work visa came through. Looking back it was probably a good
thing. It’s hard to leave a bad situation especially when your judgement is
being clouded.

~~~
ModernMech
> I used to be bi-polar

I congratulate you on your success on managing your disease, but just to be
clear, bi-polar disorder currently has no cure. If you are diagnosed with this
disease, you have it for life until hopefully one day there is a cure.

I think you realize this based on the content of your post, but I wanted to
make sure anyone reading it was clear.

The reason I want to be clear about this point is because many newly diagnosed
sufferers believe once they stabilize they are cured, and stop taking meds.
Then they relapse. It's a tale as old as time... or at least meds.

~~~
madamelic
>If you are diagnosed with this disease, you have it for life until hopefully
one day there is a cure.

Technically you can be cured of the disorder if it is well-managed.

Being neuroatypical is only a disorder if it causes distress or malfunction.
If your life is good, you don't have a disorder.

Yes you are correct though that there is no cure for being neuroatypical
though.

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exolymph
I'm sorry to hear that you're suffering.

If you have a reasonable manager, then yes, I would disclose to them and ask
for time off to cope and seek treatment. Your manager can tell your team that
you had an emergency health issue to deal with. Which is true! In American
work culture, health issues are generally understood to be private, so people
are unlikely to pester you about it.

If you don't trust your manager to keep your diagnosis private, then you can
try telling them that you have a pressing health issue that you don't feel
comfortable discussing in detail. That might be enough for them to give you
time off. Or you can just say that it's sudden-onset burnout.

Depending on your company, looping in HR might help. If it's a big
organization or has been around for a while, they've likely dealt with similar
circumstances before.

Best of luck, and I hope you feel better soon.

~~~
stephanerangaya
This is a great answer. I'd add that I think you should keep your diagnosis
private and disclose it to people you trust once you're recovered and back on
your feet. Priority now is for you to have the time you need to heal, vs.
explaining what you are dealing with.

And good luck, I hope you the best. Take care.

------
koliber
I can't tell you what you should do, because that depends on so many details
that only you are aware of.

I will tell you what I would like to hear from one of my employees if they
were in a situation similar to yours.

I would like the employee to let me know they have something important to talk
about. If remote, I would prefer this conversation to happen either by video
teleconference, or by phone. I would not want this conversation via Slack,
email, or other written medium, as text is not expressive enough.

I would like to hear it explained more or less the way you explained it here.
In your post, you describe the condition, how it affects you personally and
professionally, the dilemma you find yourself in, and you express concern
about the company. Any normal manager would respond with compassion and tell
you to take some time off and go see a specialist.

It is always difficult for a manager when someone on their team takes
unexpected time off. This is especially so in crunch-time situations. However,
it is __literally __their job to __manage __such situations, even in difficult
circumstances.

Employees getting sick or requiring time off due to a medical situation is a
normal situation, and there are various medical conditions that warrant time
off and care. Whether it is a broken wrist, birth of a child, or a mental
condition, they should be treated seriously and with compassion.

------
hkmurakami
If you think you "only" need a week, I'd probably just say you have a pressing
family emergency and need to take a week off, and that you are aware that this
is a bad time to leave but it's really important.

A US company has many problems culturally but imo one thing generally we pride
ourselves in is being supportive and understanding in times of family needs.

Also generally companies are built to withstand one person's absence for a
week.

~~~
robin_reala
_A US company has many problems culturally but imo one thing generally we
pride ourselves in is being supportive and understanding in times of family
needs._

What’s wrong with being supportive and understanding in a time of personal
need?

------
dempseye
Don't tell your employer anything. If you need to take time off, say it's for
personal reasons or invent an excuse. The stigma is real. The minute you
disclose your mental health difficulties, they will start running the calculus
to decide if it's worth keeping you around, and unless you're a star performer
who adds massive value to the business, they'll decide it isn't.

Remember that they don't give a shit about you. Their only goal in employing
you is to make a profit by paying you less than they get by selling your work
to their customers. They don't give a single fuck about your normal human
struggles. Do not say a word.

~~~
akulbe
1000x this. They do not care about anything other than to extract the maximum
amount of profit from your labor.

You take care of you. They won't. Do what you've got to do, but tell them as
little as you possibly can.

------
iamleppert
If the company is going bankrupt if you don't ship some software in a week
that's an additional problem besides your bipolar condition. I'd be trying to
find a new job.

Try to get as much paid vacation time as you can (a week or two probably) and
then you could try to see if you can go on short or long term disability pay,
if you have that insurance from your employer and you have worked there long
enough.

The medical leave/disability will protect you from getting fired during that
time and provide you with partial or full income for a long time, sometimes up
to a year, and sometimes even if the company itself goes under.

During that time you can have plenty of time to focus on your mental health,
getting out of burn out, and finding a better job. Taking a week off work may
stem the issue but it likely won't fix the problem.

Don't tell anyone at work about any details about your condition. Don't even
tell them it is something mental or physical. Provide only enough information
that is legally required.

I once confided in my manager when I was going through a break-up and
depression, and burn out. He was my friend in addition to my manager. After I
got back from my "vacation" he transferred me off his team and washed his
hands of me. Never even spoke to me again, and I see him around town sometimes
and he never has even come up to ask how I'm doing.

------
elliottinvent
Your health and wellbeing has to be your number 1 priority, above all else.

I would tell your employer that you're suffering from extreme burnout both
personally and professionally as you've described, ideally with HR involved as
@exolymph suggested.

Explain that it's effecting the quality of your work (they may have already
noticed) and they should hopefully appreciate your honesty. They should
recognise the commercial benefit of giving you a break so that you can come
back much more productive.

If they don't support you during a difficult time and force you out then you
will be better off with a different employer in the long run anyway.

Talk with friends and family. This will pass and you will get through it. Good
luck.

~~~
borplk
> I would tell your employer that you're suffering from extreme burnout both
> personally and professionally as you've described, ideally with HR involved
> as @exolymph suggested.

This is IMHO naive and bad advice in the majority of cases.

Especially so when he's a remote contractor. And especially so when the
company is not a reputable established company with deep pockets and corporate
machinery like Google/Microsoft/etc.

Those companies have processes to deal and help with these cases (and even
they don't really).

But at the average startup (have to ship or almost going bankrupt, go figure
the rest) two bros will have a quick chat and you get a "sorry ... bye" email
next week.

------
backpropaganda
Just announce you would be taking a break in 2-3 weeks. Not only does this
give them notice to be better prepared for your absence, this also helps
mental issues (personal anecdote), since you can now feel relieved that very
soon you'd be going on a vacation, which gives you some energy to get some
work done before leaving for the vacation.

I don't think you need to tell your employer the details. Just say you need a
vacation.

Also, a lot of us go through this. I hope you don't feel alone in this. Best
of luck!

------
peterkelly
I've struggled with mental health issues at various points in my life, and for
the most part I've been able to maintain a reasonable level of productivity
when dealing with those issues, but there are times where it's just been too
much and I need a break.

I don't normally talk about it with employers unless I am going through a
particularly bad episode which is materially affecting my situation, which if
I understand correctly is the case for you.

On the relatively rare occasions where this has happened, I've basically said
that 1) I'm not handling this well at all, and - most importantly - 2) unless
I'm able to take some time off or reduce my workload significantly, I'm going
end up in hospital again and/or having to resign, and that having me keep
working while ill is going to work out badly for both parties.

It's strange and unfortunate that mental health issues aren't always
understood to the same extent as physical ones. I hesitate to give concrete
advice on exactly what your best option is as I don't know enough about your
relationship with your employer or how critical your involvement is to the
company, but if they're understanding people you have a good rapport with I'd
be inclined to go ahead and talk about it.

 _The most important thing above all else is your health_. I cannot stress
this highly enough; the alternatives aren't pretty. Even in the (probably very
unlikely) event it costs you your job, you should put your wellbeing first -
you can always find another job later.

~~~
ModernMech
> It's strange and unfortunate that mental health issues aren't always
> understood to the same extent as physical ones.

It's for this reason I often just lie and say it's a physical issue. People
understand that an arm hemorrhaging blood needs to be fixed. They don't
understand that a brain stuck on an infinite loop also needs to be fixed.

------
mirimir
I'm also bipolar. And yes, the depressive phase is horrible.

I don't recommend disclosing your health status to your employer. Especially
given what you've said about its current situation. Just ask for a couple
weeks off to deal with family matters. Given what you say about their vacation
policy, I don't see the point of resigning.

I was in therapy on and off for decades, before a smart psychiatrist put me on
lamictal (mood stabilizer) and modafinil (mood elevator). I have no clue
whether that would work for you. Some still swear by lithium. But definitely
don't get on SSRI/SNRI. They could make you seriously crazy.

~~~
throwrawaygr0v
I tried those meds two years ago and it all went bad. Really bad. I turned
Buddhist for this same reason.

I promised my self not to take any med ever again. Meditation and retreats
help me badly.

Hopefully haven't been critical in years, way better than meds. I promised my
self that if I ever need them, I would rather gave up everything, become a
100% spiritual and become a Monk than take Lamictal, Valproic acid, or Lithium
again.

~~~
mirimir
I suspect that monks can be depressed too.

You say that you tried lamictal. But that alone won't help at all if you're
depressed. It may even make you feel worse. It's the modafinil that makes me
happy. But not too much, or I start to go manic. Once you're happy and
energetic enough, you add lamictal for stability.

------
jakobegger
I don't know what the law is like in the US, but in my country you do not have
to share a diagnosis with your employer. Given the stigma around mental
health, I'd really not disclose too many details prematurely, unless you are
certain that your company will be supportive. All they need to know is that
you are not fit to work. Whether the reason is bipolar disorder, migraine, or
a broken leg really isn't any of your employers business.

------
ModernMech
It's hard to say. People react in very different ways. I've had very close
relatives flip out at news like this, to the point of disowning me. Some
people see bipolar people as a threat. I wish it weren't that way, and I wish
there was no stigma. But there is, and it's very real. Just a word of caution.

I would say... how long have you been there. Maybe you can take a 6 month
sabbatical. Either way, take care of your mental health first, even if you
have to quit. If you quit now it's on your own terms. If you quit in the
middle of a manic episode.... who knows how that will go down. If you try to
get help you might be pushed out and marginalized. If you take a break and get
your health together, you can bounce back and land on your feet at another
job.

------
bb88
Human resources literally means that humans are resources.

I would like to believe that employers would really take care of their
employees, but in 2018 this just isn't the case. A problem employee is a
problem employee and often will just get shown the door. Once an employee is a
problem, many managers claim they don't have time for him anymore.

Also "unlimited vacation" is not truly unlimited. It's kind of a tax game,
where they don't have to pay you unused vacation if you leave.

If it were me going through your pain, I would resign and explain why. If they
wanted to keep you on, or let you take three weeks of vacation, that's their
decision.

But don't tell them hoping to get support, and then be surprised when you're
out of a job.

------
borplk
Do NOT tell your employer specifics.

Tell them something generic like you are tired and need a good break to
refresh.

Don't try to justify or explain details.

Ignore the fire, there will always be fires, the company needs to learn to
cope with it.

You can be a bit more flexible, for example give them notice and set the date
ahead of time and wait a bit to take some days off.

If they say something you can point out that you haven't taken much vacation
in the past year despite the policy and all that and tell them that it's not
sustainable and you don't burn yourself out or accept fake unlimited vacation
policies.

In summary, just ask for a break, don't go into details trying to justify it,
and take it without apologies.

------
stef25
> But just need a week break.

Can't you just see your doctor or psychologist, tell them you need a week and
ask for a note. Just like you would if you had the flue or had to get wisdom
teeth removed.

The reason why you are off sick is actually none of your employer's business.
Unless you think it will become a problem in the long run.

But by all means put your own mental health before that of the company.

------
basekatball
Dual-pronged approach: (1) get help on the side, (2) don’t say shit, don’t
tell anyone, don’t take vacation, just grind it out the best you can and take
pains to be really nice on a personal level and actively call in all technical
favors you can cash in.

I hate that this is the best thing to do, but it is. Fight. Fight hard and
grind.

------
jhare
We do a lot of stuff in the open. Coding, learning, blogging etc and that's
all fun when things are going well. You can decide that line stops at your
personal health. Keeping details to yourself is not lying or being nasty, it's
a healthy personal boundary. Take care of #1 always. (edit grammar)

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AngryData
I would say it is medical, I personally avoid saying bipolar to people I don't
know well because it has come with some adverse reactions over the years. I
don't know your boss but I would expect to get fired for it, ask if you can
take medical leave without specifying why.

------
segmondy
Sorry about that, but if you are going to have an open position, email me the
company so I can apply.

------
newnewpdro
If you want time off, take time off.

Keep the reasons to yourself.

------
taysic
Take a break. Your health is worth it!

