
Evidence of Turkish state violence in pictures - joshcrowder
http://roarmag.org/2013/06/explicit-evidence-of-turkish-police-brutality-in-pictures/
======
Jun8
Just to give you a glimpse of better things than saddening photos of police
brutality, here is what people did at the Gezi Park in the past 2-3 days:

* An impromptu library was built, here are some photos: <http://gezikutuphanesi.blogspot.com/> (scroll down) with books donated by people and many publishers.

* Women doing yoga at Gezi Park: <http://imgur.com/3kubMll?tags>: <http://imgur.com/3kubMll?tags> (FYI, it is _not_ common to see people, let alone young women, doing yoga in public parks in Istanbul!)

* A number of orchestras giving a classical concert at Gezi: [https://www.facebook.com/dutchrevolution/posts/5801004786774...](https://www.facebook.com/dutchrevolution/posts/580100478677437)

I am left speechless by these events, never seen anything like this in any
protest in Istanbul.

And there has many, many really funny graffiti and signs, here's an example:
[https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151695543624468...](https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151695543624468&set=a.10150304191624468.382994.665339467&type=1&ref=nf)

~~~
kweks
I flew down to Istanbul this weekend to support my friends. Joined in the
protests on the front lines - have some photos up:
[http://travel.ninjito.com/dump/2013-06-01-Istanbul-
Protests/...](http://travel.ninjito.com/dump/2013-06-01-Istanbul-
Protests/index.html)

~~~
Jun8
Great high-quality photos! Two points I want to underline: (i) the protester-
driven excavator in photo 23 is a story onto itself (for those who can read
Turkish, the full story can be found here: <http://eksisozluk.com/poma--
556945?a=today>) (ii) note that all the protesters in the mosque (Valide
Sultan mosque, in Besiktas) have not forgotten taken off their shoes, as is
the custom, even in that furor, thus disproving that the protests were anti-
Islam.

~~~
kweks
A little bit hard to follow the google translation sadly. I was running
injured people back and forth into the mosque - what you said about the shoes
was totally correct. In the end we had a system that people would meet us at
the door to carry in the injured.

At one point an ambulance needed to go through - I ran in front clearing the
way, up to where the digger was parked at the intersection.

Someone from the crowd jumped in to start it to make way for the ambulance,
and spurred on by cheers, drove the thing forward, over the barricades, and
directly into the water cannon trucks, sending the cops retreating.

After making a solid advance of about 500m or so, he was joined by 2 semi-
trailers, before he was gassed out of the cabin. As he came down, I sprayed
his eyes, and had a good 10 second pause, contemplating if it was worth
driving the digger more. Eventually I decided that it wasn't my place (as a
foreigner) to drive it, someone else jumped in and took off, and I hopped in
the semi-trailer to help the driver who had been gassed.

Shot some video of the digger: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86-r7CVQzF0>
and <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZBsdYCOLuY>

and from the truck cab: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSA79KpOSZI>

------
Jun8
I've got to say, compared to some photos I've seen on my Facebook feed, these
are nothing, many people lost an eye or had concussions when the police aimed
the gas canisters directly to their heads at close range (I really don't want
to share these, they're gruesome).

The now-famous "woman in red being tear gassed"
([http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/06/03...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/06/03/the-
photo-that-encapsulates-turkeys-protests-and-the-severe-police-crackdown/))
photo, taken by a Turkish Reuters photo journalist (who later was wounded
himself by a gas canister) has been used as a symbol of the brutality of the
police. But wait, maybe this was manipulation on the photographer's part (know
to happen) and the policeman did it by accident? Yesterday, the followup shots
to that photo were released:
[http://fotogaleri.hurriyet.com.tr/galeridetay.aspx?cid=69735...](http://fotogaleri.hurriyet.com.tr/galeridetay.aspx?cid=69735&rid=2&p=1&hid=23434809).
Note how the guy is very deliberate in his spraying, angry that this woman had
the guts to stand against them.

Lest you think this was just a twisted policeman, let me assure you that the
violence is very common. The police has always been violent against protesters
in Turkey, irregardless of who's ruling, so this is not a first with AKP. What
was interesting, however, was the persistence of people against the onslaught.

If you have a couple of minutes, here's a nicely done video summarizing the
Gezi Protests: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=demnc4sQ0VI>

~~~
krenel
> But wait, maybe this was manipulation on the photographer's part (know to
> happen) and the policeman did it by accident?

As always you can not now if this exact photo, in its context, had a
reasonable explanation. The thing is that the OP shows tens of photos of
people highly injured and it cannot be "just coincidence" or bad faith from
the photographer.

This photos remembered me the demonstrations here in Spain. Police brutality
looks exactly the same. What a shame.

------
jacquesm
Shocking pictures.

This is converging with alarming speed on an all out confrontation. Turkey is
a very beautiful country balancing on the Europe-Asia divide with a lot of
internal pressure built up over a long time. If the government keeps pushing
like this it will likely reap a lot more than they've bargained for.

The Turks that I've known in my life are tremendously proud and very hard
working people, push enough of them around for long enough and all that energy
will be directed back at the one doing the pushing.

I really hope that the Turkish government will read the writing on the wall
and will change course, if they don't do that then I fear that a lot more
lives will be lost.

~~~
ludwigvan
Thanks for the compliments about Turkish people, jacquesm.

I can say that things have improved in the last couple of days; violence of
police has been more or less throttled, the local media has started covering
the news, and members of the gov't, the deputy PM, the President and even pro-
goverment journalists have started realizing the significance of this issue. I
would say the main opposition is actually against the PM Erdogan himself now,
who has yet to show respect for us. We will see whether he will change his
mind in a few days and apologize (not very likely), when he returns from his
trip to Algeria.

~~~
jacquesm
I found it absolutely incredible that Erdogan would leave for a trip to
Algeria (of all places) rather than to address these obviously very urgent
domestic issues. Whatever he's doing in Algeria I can't imagine that it is
more important than to solve the domestic crisis first.

It's almost insulting.

~~~
makmanalp
It _is_ insulting, that's the point. Erdogan is no stranger to provoking
people, and then demonizing them in the ensuing outrage.

Like when he called the protestors 3-5 bandits, or when he called the founders
of the constitution two drunkards (and they did drink, but so what?), or when
he said "if you have 100 thousand people on the streets, I'll bring out a
million" (all easily googleable, don't have time to link now).

His bully-like attitude is partly why he's losing sympathy even among his own
supporters and party, which contain a spectrum from conservative-moderates to
ultra-conservatives.

------
ayi
Thanks for sharing this and i'm currently in the capital city of Turkey
(ankara). I'm one of those protesters.

I can answer questions if someone wants to ask something.

Thanks to HN community for following protests in Turkey.

~~~
maeon3
Can you provide some photographic proof that you are who you say you are,

edit: (sorry, the ability to remain anonymous is very important as lives are
on the line). You might want to use a throw-away in that case as well because
usernames can be tracked.

~~~
ayi
I don't think i can do this.

Maybe you know Turkey as a modern, democratic country but we are not. I'm
currently using Tor because of fear. You can face court in Turkey because of
just re-tweeting something.

edit: sorry for my english. edited for some grammer mistakes.

~~~
maeon3
Ah, well then we'll take it on faith then. Why did you join the protest?

~~~
ayi
Because current government tries to change how we live.

I think government's job is just trying to boost the economy, trying to not
get into any war, paying the debts to IMF and etc.

But current ruling party forces our life styles into a shape which they draw.

Just one example:

\- Taksim Square is a famous tourist attraction centers of Istanbul. \-
Government first said to bars (pubs): "you can't put stalls on front of your
bar." People protested just on facebook and twitter. \- They said: "you can't
sell alcohol after 10pm but you can sell other things". Nothing happened. Just
some protests but our PM labeled protesters as "alcoholics". \- After that
they said: "Nope! No alcohol after 10 PM even for stores. You can't go to
pubs, you can't buy from stores." People protested but PM said "So, you wanna
raise your children as alcoholics?! We can't let this happen!"

You smell where these is going? Current ruling party tries to divide Turkey in
two sides. "Religious good citizens" vs "atheists, lgbts, alcoholics, left-
wings" etc.

Someone had to tell them "just because you are ruling party, you can't make
everything you want". and we are trying to tell them this.

by the way, sorry for my english again.

~~~
adaml_623
Is there an article you have seen in the western media that elaborates on what
you've said here. I'm not finding my usual sources to be at all helpful
explaining what is happening

~~~
ayi
english wikipedia is very comprehensive and up-to-date with even today:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_protests_in_Turkey>

------
alan_cx
Um.... any one remember the riots in the UK a couple of years ago? The police
shot dead a black suspect, kept the family out of the loop and riots kicked
off all over the place. (Yes, there was a lot more to it than that)

Well.... public opinion at the time _wanted_ the UK police to act like these
Turkish police. In fact, a lot of people wanted the police to be shooting
these youths with plastic bullets, not to mention calling out the army to
clear it up.

I wonder if the people who held those opinions are now condemning the Turks? I
wonder if this is the sort of thing they had in mind?

~~~
mseebach
There was a very clear break between the short lived, peaceful (if hostile)
and completely legitimate march following the shooting - and then the full-on
rioting that followed.

That said, looking at kweks' photos, it seems there could be a similar thing
going on in Istanbul: In the daytime, the protest looks great, peaceful and
calm, but at night, they are charging the police in a stolen excavator? The
police is definitely wrong to fire CS canisters at head level, but if you're
charging against the police in a stole excavator, you've lost the high ground.

~~~
akiselev
I don't know how much the excavator was used for overall but there are quite a
few times when it ran down water trucks that were actively spraying people. If
the protesters were violent towards those in the water truck or were attacking
police who weren't violent themselves then they lose the high ground, but
destroying property that is used to inflict brutal harm to the people they're
meant to protect is justifiable as long as it is done in a way that does not
harm life.

------
mseebach
> _These photos reveal the ugly side of the Turkish economic miracle: an
> authoritarian neoliberal state willing to kill in order to preserve its
> place._

It's good we've got the question of who's the boogieman settled. Nuance is too
hard.

------
stevoo
Those picture sum up nicely to the official response from the official that
only 14 people have been injured.

Violence in my neighbouring country has always been high. It is just today the
social media allow that to be displayed. Before, the broadcasting was always
cutting it off due to goverment censorship. This is just glimpse of the
gruesome image of Turkey politians that are ruled by the army. There are far
worse example in Turkey that have not seen the cover or day. This is the same
in there foreign policy with all the smaller states around them feeling
that(armenia, cyprus, syria)

Unfortunately i do not see this changing until the people in Turkey stand up
and overthrow the current goverment but that is impossible with out foreign
aid as Turkey is a country ruled by the militia.

------
fixxer
I'm just gonna jump out there and offer a prediction: Erdogan ain't gonna be
hold power till 2014.

Most of those victims pictured didn't look like young anarchists/WTO
protesters to me... they looked like average citizens. Even if you've got a
large contingency of black bloc (I don't know if this is the case and it
simply hasn't been pictured), no EU-applicant country can/should be able to
get away with such behavior.

~~~
rolleiflex
Turkey is not only an EU–applicant country, it's actively in the process of
joining the EU.

~~~
fixxer
I know; this is shameful.

------
netcan
I'm still blown away by the quantity and quality of 'citizen journalism'
covering these topics. Photos, video, blogs, tweets. We've gotten used to it
being a big part but I think the effects are just starting to be felt.

Two years later (and a more developed country) since the Libyan revolution,
and the quality of photos is already so much higher.

Give it five more years and we'll have gigapixel photos, live streaming POV
cameras (eg glass) and who knows what else. I really think police misbehavior
will be improved by it.

------
squidi
It's worth looking at the timeline of the photo of the lady in the red dress.
It's even more shocking when you see the policeman lurching towards her:
[http://lucienballard.tumblr.com/post/52220098289/all-
photogr...](http://lucienballard.tumblr.com/post/52220098289/all-photographs-
osman-orsal-reuters-brave)

------
yread
It looks like they are actually aiming the tear gas canisters at people's
faces and heads. Terrible

~~~
oskansavli
Here is a video that shows police aiming to head. There are people who lost
one eye because of this. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47GDOHJm1cM>

------
thehme
Wow, we are not seeing this on TV. This cannot be happening in Turkey! This is
outrageous and I hope that it encourages more sharing on the internet to
educate the world and that people go out in peaceful protests to show the
government that they need to be LISTENED to. These people do not look at all
as "radical protesters" as the Turkish Gov has made them sound like.

------
grecy
How hard is it for civilians to buy gas masks like the police are wearing?

It seems like that would negate most of the tear gas / pepper spray problems.

------
swombat
My question is, how long before the peaceful demonstrators turn hostile? If I
were there, I would feel like the government has crossed the line into
violence and that therefore the crowds have no choice but to defend
themselves.

Soon enough, Turkey won't look that different from Syria, if the police keep
that up.

~~~
JamisonM
Saying that "Turkey won't look that different from Syria" is not really a
sensible statement. My understanding is that other than the Kurds in the south
Turkey does not really have "factions" in it population beyond the normal
urban/rural divide. It is not primed for any kind of civil war.

While one could argue that another Arab Spring nation could provide a parallel
situation I do not think that any are very similar. Turkey has a history of
repression by authority but it has relatively free and fair elections and it
is not governed by anything resembling a brutal dictator. What it does have as
I understand it is a government that has its base in the rural population and
thus does not reflect the interests of the urban population very well.

~~~
ludwigvan
That's right. Turkey had its "spring" in 1920-1930s actually, what is going on
is more or less trying to preserve and improve that nature.

------
MK_Dev
Turkey will simply deny that this ever happened but will go on to say that the
a large number of the police was also injured and that the number of injured
civilian protesters is vastly inflated.

------
kno
What a violence! Why can the police and other law enforcement folk be so
brutal against their own people? its beyong outrage.

~~~
Buzaga
Learn this and don't forget: police serves the state, not the people.

------
whiddershins
Imagine this clash in the Unitd States. Would the result be more violent or
less?

~~~
rooshdi
<http://youtu.be/45VGFgiFu7Y>

------
Tomis02
I don't think they were trying to hide it.

~~~
danmaz74
Turk media almost didn't report the news. How would you call that?

~~~
Tomis02
I would call that my point. The media isn't reporting the news not because the
government was hiding the facts, but because the government controls the
media.

~~~
danmaz74
Ok, then I misunderstood your comment :)

------
rogerthis
Al-qaeda goes crazy (Al-qaeda pira).

------
outside1234
I don't see the problem. This is just like China. Keep sending us cheap
textiles and Nest Thermostats, human rights be damned.

</sarcasm>

------
chris_wot
This is awful.

------
zeroexzeroone
Who in their right mind has little kids near a protest? Saw what appeared to
be a man wiping a little girl's eyes.

I don't condone violence on any level and I am all for protesting but I would
leave the kids with someone I trust and somewhere safe (if that is at all
possible).

If I get even an inkling unrest is occurring I would immediately get my
daughter to safety (again, if that is at all possible).

~~~
danielharan
Sometimes the protest comes near you. Tourists have been kettled in Montreal
just walking out of a restaurant or in a park, held for hours without charges
laid. It happened quite often last spring.

Also: you're rather quick to judge the parents, yet say nothing about the
police that presumably fired at the child. Nice victim blaming.

~~~
zeroexzeroone
Hence the comments at each end of my sentence - if at all possible. Nice quick
to judgment yourself there, sport.

------
maeon3
The following is a description (slightly modified) from Dr. Peter Hammond's
book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam:

The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat.

As long as the Muslim population remains around 1% of any given country they
will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone. In
fact, they may be featured in articles and films, stereotyped for their
colorful uniqueness.

At 2% and 3% they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and
disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs
[Europe, Australia, USA and Japan]. Six percent of US prison inmates are
Muslim. Like any other minority, they won’t integrate, but work to build their
own separate community.

From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their
percentage of the population. South Africa's Muslim population is 2%, but they
control 35% of the businesses, a large percentage of the banks and have five
Cabinet seats while Christians (77% of the population) have none.

They will push for the introduction of halaal (clean by Islamic standards)
food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase
pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves (along with
threats for failure to comply).

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to
rule themselves under Sharia; Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islam is not
to convert the world, but to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase lawlessness as a
means of complaint about their conditions. (Ei: car-burnings in France last
October.) Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings
and threats.

After reaching 20% expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations,
sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning (India, Mindanao,
Philippines). At 40% you will find widespread massacres, chronic terror
attacks and ongoing militia warfare [Indonesia].

From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other
religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon
and Jizya (infidel tax). (Sudan, Kosovo, Lebanon and Egypt). After 80% expect
State run ethnic cleansing and genocide [Western Papua (New Guinea), Iran,
Biafra, Turkey and North Nigeria].

100% will usher in the peace of "Dar-es-Salaam" - House of Peace - as in Saudi
Arabia, Libya and Yemen.

Islam is the main religion of the Turkish people, where the CIA World factbook
states that 99.8%. It has not yet Implemented Sharia law there, you can be
sure the unrest will continue there until Turkey is ruled by Sharia law.

~~~
andyjohnson0
Member for 1199 days and you post this rant. Seriously, the best thing you can
do right now is delete your HN account and not come back.

Edit: Assuming that maeon3 is merely trolling and is not actually deranged,
please lets not feed this troll any more.

~~~
JamisonM
Check out this beauty: "Like slavery in the 18th century, prisons are a
necessary evil.." <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5798034>

~~~
maeon3
Two can play at the genetic fallacy game Achmed...

How about this abomination of a twitter feed? <http://twitter.com/jmattheij>

~~~
JamisonM
Sorry, I do not understand this. Who is Achmed? What is the "genetic fallacy
game"?

~~~
coverband
I believe maeon3 intended to reply to jacquesm by using jacquesm's past twits,
but ended up responding to you.

