
Turn It Off: NSA's Achilles' Heel - brokenparser
http://offnow.org/plan/
======
zmanian
Several key pieces of information on Off Now.

-Off Now represents an unprecedented collaboration between left and right wing organizations. The 10th Amendment Center is associated with right wing causes like nullifying Obamacare or gun control regulations. The Bill of Rights Defense Committee is well known as left leaning civil rights organization. This partnership has been characterized by mutual respect and a shared love of liberty. It is amazing.

\- The Off Now legislation has real legal consequences in the opinion of
experienced constitutional lawyers like Shahid Buttar of BORDC. In California,
the Off Now Bill SB828 would prevent the NSA from recruiting on UC campuses
and impair opening an NSA facility in the future in CA. In Washington State,
it would impair the functionality of the Yakima facility considerably.

What can you do?

\- If you live in Washington State, call the office of Laurie Jenkin's and ask
for hearing on HB2272
[http://www.leg.wa.gov/House/Representatives/Pages/jinkins.as...](http://www.leg.wa.gov/House/Representatives/Pages/jinkins.aspx)

\- Ask your employers to participate in the The Day We Fight Back on Feb 11th.
[https://thedaywefightback.org/](https://thedaywefightback.org/)

\- In SF, come to the AT&T building at 611 Folsom on the 11th to hear whistle
blower Mark Klein speak and to remind the SF community that the NSA is
capturing America's internet traffic right in their city.

\- If you live in CA, sign Shame on Feinstein.
[https://shameonfeinstein.org](https://shameonfeinstein.org)

\- Support the BORDC and the 10th Amendment center financially.

~~~
kelnage
It might be worth researching Yakima a little further - its been planned for
closure since 2012 [1].

1\.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakima_Training_Center#Ancillar...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakima_Training_Center#Ancillary_functions)

~~~
scott_karana
Still worth closing. If any states pull this off, they'll be pressed for
facilities.

------
err4nt
Won't anybody 'attacking' the NSA will be labelled a terrorist, and anybody
signing a petition simply add their own name to the list?

If any kind of action like this is taken against the NSA on US soil, I'm sure
it will result in increased legal protective measures for the NSA to help
safeguard from this new 'terrorist threat', which will only make people want
to disrupt them more.

Basically what I fear is a home-grown 'terrorist' movement that the NSA will
use to justify its recent behaviour. This works so well in their favour (long-
term) that I can't even rule out the possibility of the whole thing being a
false flag actually endorsed by the NSA. This can't end well…

~~~
rubbingalcohol
So, you're saying that organized political action to affect democratic change
in America could be considered a "terrorist" threat? The fact that you're even
worried about this shows how far our country has slid in terms of liberty and
democracy. We are now on the cusp of being a police state, but I really hope
people won't let that dissuade them from exercising their civic duty to engage
the democratic process.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
> _organized political action_ //

The action is a physical with-holding of resources in order to prevent an arm
of government from operating. That doesn't sound like "political" action.
Warranted or not that description vastly underplays the gravity of the
proposed action IMO.

~~~
nl
Of course it is political action! It happens all the time, for private
developments (eg casinos) as well as government developments (eg, local
governments enacting laws to make putting sewage treatment plants or nuclear
waste treatment plants in their areas)

It is effective because it adds friction. Things seldom change from one
action, but lots of things add up.

------
blauwbilgorgel
It's easy to yell from the sidelines, but what is this hoping to accomplish? A
total shutdown of the NSA?

I wonder how realistic this goal is. Forcing states to pass legislature to ban
offering help in any way to the NSA? Million dollar contracts down the drain,
because a local government official turns off the water tap, turning data
centers into ghost towns? Seems like a very long shot.

Secondly I wonder how the pro's and con's weigh up. I think even the
staunchest supporters of (internet) freedom would, at least to some extend,
agree that intelligence gathering and spying is a current necessity for a
world power like America. It would probably put their entire military in
danger for intelligence efforts to drop to zero.

That "the people" in general want things to change is clear and efforts to
create such change are mostly noble. I think a balance can be found where the
NSA acts within bounds, with oversight and transparency. Where companies can
disclose the numbers on information requests. None of these secret court
shenanigans anymore. Versus an NSA that does what it is made to do, does its
job well (hiring proud academics included), and generally works in the
interest of all American people (and their allies). There should be a balance
between boundless spying and no spying at all.

~~~
naterator
>It's easy to yell from the sidelines, but what is this hoping to accomplish?
A total shutdown of the NSA?

I doubt anyone thinks that, realistically. From what I gather this is
essentially protesting, although a protest that actually causes those in power
some discomfort. The NSA would have to start sourcing/generating it's own
power and water. Anyone who works there will become persona-non-grata. In my
opinion, this actually has the chance of doing something. Much better than
500,000 people marching down Broadway, then going home at the end of the day
(Iraq war protest, anyone?).

And I don't think anyone wants to see the NSA go away completely either. I
believe that if the Snowden documents revealed that everything the NSA was
doing was outside the nations borders (or just not targeted at US citizens),
no one would give two shits. They would even be pleasantly surprised,
probably. But that's not what we found out. We found out that the NSA and it's
secret court take the most liberal reading of the laws in place to do whatever
they want, and with no good controls over who has access to what information,
or when.

In short, this is a different form of protest, hopefully a more effective one.

~~~
malandrew
This. Furthermore, it shows employees of the NSA that many American citizens
consider their current M.O. unconstitutional and therefore unpatriotic. At the
end of the day the NSA is made up of Americans and it's important to remind
those in this ivory tower that America values freedom and liberty over any
security measures that will come at the cost of freedom and liberty.

When a state bars the NSA from doing business within its borders, its sending
a message to all NSA employees that the NSA currently does not represent the
vision for America it believes in.

------
Zigurd
What a load of naysayers. Sending the message that pervasive domestic
surveillance is unwelcome could be effectively sent with a couple critical
states cutting off local resources and enacting laws that are hostile to the
operators of such a facility. It doesn't have to be perfect. It's a form of
protest.

------
unclebucknasty
This sounds great. Even has a slight geurilla ring to it, that appeals to the
freedom-fighter in all of us.

But, as many have noted on this thread, they will simply find ways around
these obstacles. So, it's just another form of cat-and-mouse in a game we are
destined to lose, as their resources are virtually unbounded.

In all, it really goes the long way around getting done what really needs to
be done: change and clarify laws which bring the NSA back under heel.

IMO, pursuing anything else outside of legal redress as a primary goal
(including pure technical solutions like encryption) is simply assuming the
wrong posture. It concedes their right to do these things, as long as they can
skirt the chestnuts we try to shovel into their path. In this, we allow
ourselves to be put at odds with our own government and abandon the rule of
law, as well as the very principle that our government works for us.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
Agreed.

It's an attempt to circumvent democratic process. That may be deemed necessary
but then isn't there a larger issue - that you have a pseudo-democracy in
which the only way for the populus to combat rogue agencies within the state
government is to perpetrate acts of aggression against their own
infrastructure? The infrastructure those same people are paying taxes to
implement?

Basically you're saying that USA democracy has broken to such an extent that
the people need to initiate war - of a form - against the government's
agencies.

~~~
darkarmani
> It's an attempt to circumvent democratic process.

How is passing a state law circumventing democratic process? Isn't it more of
a circumvention if all of the locals vote against the NSA, but the NSA still
moves in?

------
ingenium
All the federal government would have to do is threaten to cut all federal
funding and subsidies to the state. An example would be funding for
interstates, but there are many many more. I can't remember when exactly, but
I'm pretty sure they've played this card before.

I can't think of a single state whose politicians would not back down from
such a threat.

~~~
Phlarp
They used the interstate funding threat to get all 50 states to toe the line
on 21 year drinking age.

~~~
Zigurd
And yet some states are still managing to hold out against Obamacare.

~~~
Phlarp
In this particular case "they" equals congress, not the administration. Obama
is not legally able to hold highway funding hostage to get states to implement
his doomed healthcare act; He could direct congress to do the above, but they
are generally too busy discussing the repeal of the ACA these days.

------
jaybuff
"The water-cooled supercomputers require 1.7 million gallons of water per day
to function."

Anyone have a citation for that? I suspect that water is in circulation. I
doubt they send almost two million gallons into the sewage system everyday.

~~~
NAFV_P
I did a quick calculation for the energy consumption of Tianhe-2, which has a
power consumption of 17808 kW ...

1,538,611,200,000 J per day. Of course the Tianhe-2 is rated as the fastest,
and the NSA won't be using something as big, but it gives you a rough idea of
the power consumption of these machines.

------
api
If you cut the power to NSA facilities they will just install local
generation, even trucking in their own fuel. Not sure about water and such but
I'm sure they could do the same there.

~~~
joyeuse6701
It's a move in a large game of chess. Just because your opponent will counter
your movement, doesn't mean you shouldn't make a move. This is a viable
strategy. The earlier it is, the more likely you have resources to counter a
movement. This is an option now and with sound strategy could be used in
various scenarios.

The NSA is successful now because of computational power and obscurity. They
operate in the dark and as a result get away with a lot. But operational funds
that feed their workers that work for them on all levels come from the people.
Bureaucracy is acting as levels of abstraction preventing the people from
shutting them down by denial of resources. The further you are able to cut
down the bureaucracy and make it apparent that the NSA needs money from the
people to operate, the more likely you are to engage the american people into
saying 'no'.

So, should they need to spend money on energy, they will have to find a means
to get it, and the more you block them, the higher the price gets. At some
point, if the campaign is successful, they will have to appeal to the people
for money, i.e. some tax to do it. Maybe it will be defense spending, or maybe
it will be energy tax. But the clearer it becomes an issue of money, the more
obvious what the move is, and can thus be countered into a game finishing
move.

------
chris_mahan
I thought it was "Turn off the computer" and write on paper, and talk to
people, in person, etc.

~~~
user24
don't be ridiculous.

------
qwerta
I think this plan is very naive. There will always be money for more police
and military stuff. North Korea is extreme example. Result of those
obstructions would be mostly prosecution of activists.

------
Ryel
Yes, let's fund the NSA through taxes and then pay more by sabotaging them.

Here's an equally brash idea...

Innovators in the USA threaten to become primary residents elsewhere. Let
other countries bid on the incentives they'd like to enact to bring thousands
of startups and leading innovators.

------
aray
My favorite of all the restrictions so far is to ban recruiting at colleges
and universities. The NSA recruited heavily out of my school -- many of my
peers interviewed with them (it was hard to find an employer looking for _so
many_ engineering new grads).

------
vaadu
Would be nice if facebook, google, ISPs and cell phone providers refused to do
business with employees of the white house, congress, NSA and FBI.

Shut down their social networking and email accounts, their cell phones and
their home TV and internet access.

------
lukejduncan
It took some digging to figure out who is backing this. It looks like it's an
org called the Tenth Amendment Center. Does anyone know who these guys are?
Are they reputable? Will my money actually go to _this_ cause?

------
monkeynotes
Isn't the cooling water a closed recirculating system? That's how id design it
anyway, seems wasteful to have fresh water pumped in continuously.

~~~
dredmorbius
Heat of vaporisation of water is tremendous, and the amount of cooling you
gain by allowing for evaporation is huge. You can contain the evaporative
cycle, but that takes a lot more engineering. As with anything, it's a
cost/benefit question.

------
pbhjpbhj
Stopping a water supply to enact damage to a part of your, supposed,
democratic governmental machine sounds to me like the first act of a civil war
...

------
jah627
This is a case of the "ends" creating a justification to open the door for the
"means" to slip through.

"States rights" and "nullification" have long been used to justify trampling
the constitutionally protected rights of minorities of every race, creed,
color, and religion. The simplest and best way to "nullify" the NSA, is to
change it.

If that takes a Constitutional Amendment, so be it. Its time to get to work.

~~~
privong
That states rights and nullification have sometimes been used for bad purposes
doesn't mean that any use of states rights and nullification is automatically
bad. Your statement reads as though that's what you mean. But surely you
wouldn't say that states setting their own laws regarding taxation, wages,
etc. (which are an exercise of states rights) are inherently bad?

> If that takes a Constitutional Amendment, so be it. Its time to get to work.

We already have one: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons,
houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall
not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause,
supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be
searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

What we need is to ensure it is being followed and enforced.

------
coldskull
Can the president not declare emergency and bypass the laws? The laws may not
help much

~~~
notdonspaulding
No. At least I don't think so, but IANAL.

In general, bad laws are better fixed by repeal or amendment, as opposed to
fiat of the executive branch, because they represent the people. The NSA
spying on Americans is bad, and I believe a violation of the 4th Amendment to
the US Constitution. That being said, the way to fix this is through Congress
or the Supreme Court.

If you really want to see progress on this front, do it through the courts and
through Congress. The wheels for this are already in motion, but it could take
some time to have an effect. The two biggest things that could speed this up
are to convince your friends and relatives that this is an important issue,
and to vote for a non-establishment candidate in the upcoming mid-term
election.

Unless this becomes an issue for the average American (hint: it's not yet), or
unless we get non-establishment representation in the Capitol building, this
won't get fixed the way it ought to.

------
jmnicolas
I thought Utah was a pretty arid place, where does the water comes from ?

~~~
netfire
Underground aquifers, reservoirs from streams, rivers, etc. Northern Utah gets
a fair amount of snow as well. There are around 2.9 million people living in
Utah[1]. There is also a fair amount of agriculture in the state, especially
up north, which uses most of the water in the state[2]. States like Arizona
and New Mexico are much more arid.

[1] -
[http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/49000.html](http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/49000.html)
[2] -
[http://www.water.utah.gov/brochures/wiu_broc.htm](http://www.water.utah.gov/brochures/wiu_broc.htm)

~~~
jmnicolas
Very interesting links thank you.

I was very surprised about the "racial" statistics in the first link.

In my country (France) it's unlawful to make this kind of statistics.

~~~
gms7777
Wait, its illegal to take take racial demographic statistics in France? I find
that really surprising. I went and tried to look up French census information,
but alas, I could only find it in French. I can however find estimates of
racial demographics in France on wikipedia and such.

~~~
jmnicolas
Yes it's illegal.

What you probably found was people's country of origin but not their race (or
it was not a French survey).

Even hinting about it will get you labeled as a racist.

------
jdimov
What equivalent or similar actions could be taken against GCHQ in the UK?

~~~
fit2rule
None. The only way to get rid of the GCHQ in the UK is revolution.

~~~
junto
In ten years time, this comment of yours will automatically place you on a
list of 'dissidents'. You will be targeted for heightened (full) surveillance.
Your phone will be tracked, all email and phone calls recorded and scanned
automatically for review by a machine. You will not be allowed to fly, or find
yourself in the queue for "special searches". You will be subject to stop and
search on the street under the anti terrorism act, though no policeman will
actually know why you are on that list.

All of this will happen automatically. No person will have triggered this
process, nor intervene on your behalf. Every TSA agent or UK equivalent will
have no idea why you have been marked in the system as "terrorist/dissident".
You will simply be treated as such. There will be no recourse. Your children,
your siblings and your parents, plus your friends will have a slightly higher
weighted bayesian 'terrorist' score placed on their files, because you know
them.

Welcome to the world of tomorrow. Welcome to the real Skynet.

~~~
fit2rule
Actually, unless I misunderstand your attempt at wry irony, I believe that
this world is now.

------
icantthinkofone
I find it very interesting how many people claim to have intimate
knowledge...now...of the most secret agency in the world where none existed
before.

