
America's 10 Least Stressful Jobs includes Programming & Software Engineering. - hanszeir
http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/05/09/overworked-make-a-leap-to-americas-10-least-stressful-jobs/
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arethuza
Programming isn't really a stressful activity. However, bad management can
make anything stressful.

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MatthewPhillips
I have to agree. We get paid very well to play on computers all day; something
most of us would be doing anyways. Don't confuse this with the job of running
a startup though.

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CrLf
Less stressful...? Let's see...

Burning your brain all day to solve problems that are usually underspecified,
while having to meet deadlines set by people that don't have much of a clue of
what it really means to program, to satisfy users which don't know exactly
what they want, and wouldn't like it even if you gave it to them.

Yeah, what's to be stressed about...

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codex
This describes most knowledge workers--attorneys, architects, designers, etc.
However, the field of software is so new and complex that developers are held
to a lower standard. For example, an attorney's supervisor knows exactly what
is being worked on and how long it should take. Software, in contrast, is a
black box that affords a number of excuses.

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ebiester
Knowledge work is rarely low-stress. Further, I'd argue that because the field
is so new and complex, that's exactly what makes it stressful. (as well as
exciting!)

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zdw
The main sources of stress in computer related jobs:

\- Dealing with failure scenarios (everything's down and won't come back up)

\- External time pressure (This needed to be done yesterday)

\- Dealing with human issues (payment, expectations of work, etc.)

Some bits of programming/SE are high on certain forms of this - for example in
the service provider world, it's often #1, whereas game development is high on
#2 (and #1 if it's an online game).

But for the most part, programming is somewhat stress free.

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CrLf
«Dealing with failure scenarios (everything's down and won't come back up)»

This is avoidable, if you do your job well.

«External time pressure (This needed to be done yesterday)»

This tends to get worse if you do your job well. Do something in a month once,
and get asked to do it in a week the next...

«Dealing with human issues (payment, expectations of work, etc.)»

Every problem is a people problem. Between the users complaining, co-workers
blocking your work and management putting impossible deadlines.

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ssmoot
"This is avoidable, if you do your job well."

That's awfully snarky. And I doubt many developers have the authority to
overcome systems issues. Even if it were possible to compensate
programmatically, it may justifiably count against you if you assume the
authority to invest the additional time to turn a working delivery into a
super-resilient-never-goes-down delivery.

Either way, it's generally a management decision developers don't have the
authority to make.

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pdenya
Software Engineering for an advertising agency gets pretty stressful. It pays
well and it's fun usually but crazy demands from clients that account and
project managers don't push back on, constantly getting the creative for sites
late and not being able to push back the development schedule, etc. I would
describe my job as frantic.

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
Maybe I'm being pedantic, but if you can describe your job as "frantic" then I
don't think you're Engineering anything. Sounds more like it's being hacked
together and rushed out the door as soon as possible.

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gavingmiller
I've been in pdenya's situation before. It is very much a hack, and it lacks
any Engineering period.

I was at a shop that didn't pay their employees well and enticed them with big
projects for big clients - really neat work in many cases. A lot of people
working there were young and ambitious (ie new grads,) but they didn't stand
up for themselves. The result is that inexperienced developers run projects
that go over time and over budget, which results in lots of overtime (unpaid,
because you're on salary) which leads to extremely high employee turnover.

It's huge short term thinking, and I suggested as much when I left. But I'm
sure management has that figured out and they've found a model that produces
decent work and keeps the clients happy, so why change? Buggy code = more time
charging out maintenance projects.

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Derbasti
What exactly is the difference between being a Software Engineer and a
Computer Programmer?

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MatthewPhillips
I'd like to see this explained too. Usually they are interchangeable, but when
I see them together I assume by programmer they mean code monkey.

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hessenwolf
Yes - me too - especially when everybody in the finance & insurance world
calls us all 'IT' regardless of occupation.

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tangus
The actual list: [http://www.careercast.com/jobs-rated/10-least-stressful-
jobs...](http://www.careercast.com/jobs-rated/10-least-stressful-jobs-2011)

I wonder how their "stress rank" is calculated...

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brown9-2
If they don't mention their methodologies than it's safe to say there isn't
much science going on here, just an exercise in getting traffic and links.

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rbxbx
I hate to think what my anxiety levels would be with a legitimately stressful
job.

I love hacking, but consulting is another matter.

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chegra
For how it was ranked: [http://www.careercast.com/jobs-rated/2011-jobs-rated-
methodo...](http://www.careercast.com/jobs-rated/2011-jobs-rated-methodology)

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obtino
Software Engineering? Really? As an ex-IBM employee I beg to differ!

Don't get me wrong, I love to hack. At the end of the day, it all depends on
how your employer treats you.

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hopeless
Not just how your employers treats you but also how much you care about your
job. They can shout and scream and tell you to work weekends but if you don't
care then you can, at least partially, insulate yourself from that stress.

For me, the worse stress is the pointless, boring nature of the job. That's a
much bigger life stress than someone fretting over a Sev1 defect and telling
me to work weekends

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simpleH
Mathematician falls into the 10 least stressful jobs (at #8) after years of
also being in the 10 best jobs in America (at #2):

<http://ti.me/ivYEZr>

<http://on.wsj.com/g7MTWh>

Both lists also contain Software Engineers. Does that mean math majors (esp.
computer oriented ones) should take more software engineering classes? SE
helped me (although I was surprised how much), I encounter Use Cases and
Requirements on a daily basis here. I majored in Computational Mathematics.

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Derbasti
I am an audiologist who programs for a living (audio-stuff, obviously). I
guess that must make me a really relaxed personality. Only I don't live in the
US. Oh well.

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rbxbx
And from what I understand, audio programming typically involves fairly heavy
mathematics (also on the list).

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Derbasti
To a certain extend, yes. But then again, it is not so much about mathematic
accuracy as it is about 'sounding good'. Many of the most successful audio
effect devices have really meager processors. Careful tuning of simple
algorithms is often more productive than crazy mathematical forays. (This is
kind of the same thing that applies to Openoffice and MS Office: OOo is not
really technically any worse than MSO, but MSO just has the nicer presets and
that makes all the difference).

That said, you are often limited by available processing power and micro-
optimizations can be important. Calculating dozens of filters for dozens of
channels on one DSP can be quite a challenge and getting that right
algorithmically makes a big difference.

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aphexairlines
Any job that makes it easy to take work home, and/or has real customers,
and/or involves several teams that you might block can be very stressful if
you let it.

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lhnz
I work 12+ hour days. I am constantly harassed to fix things 'now'. A
companies future rests on my ability to do all of this.

How is this not stressful?

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viggity
I know that there are semantic differences between "Software Engineer" and
"Computer Programmer", but they seem really insignificant to me. I'm curious
how they differentiate the two. How does HN differentiate them?

I've always just thought of "Software Engineer" as someone who takes their
profession more seriously, but it is more of a self-applied label than
anything else.

~~~
ashchristopher
In Canada, part of the distinction is that Software Engineers are real (with a
ring) engineers. A lot of their education is in engineering principles - same
classes as Electrical, Mechanical and Computer engineers.

I know in the states Software Engineer describes most developers. How many
Twitter engineers are actual engineers? Exactly.

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prodigal_erik
Does that mean Canadian software engineers are required to study stuff like
statics and dynamics and metallurgy, wasting time on mechanical failure modes
that are utterly irrelevant in software?

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ashchristopher
Yes to statics and dynamics.

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peterbraden
The criteria for this are pretty terrible in terms of defining mental stress.
I'd be far more interested in a study that looked at actual stress as
evidenced by medical conditions and tied it back to careers, rather than a set
of arbitrary categories that are chosen base on a perceived link to stress.

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rwmj
Philosopher is a job? Surely it's a university research post, at least if
you're not willing to live in poverty like Socrates, or are independently
wealthy like Thoreau [later in life].

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arvinjoar
If a university pays you to do the same things as you would do on your free
time, and what you would do on your free time could be considered original
philosophy, then yes, it would be the job of "philosopher". There's also
philosophers like Stefan Molyneux who make their money from
books/donations/speaking engagements.

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squishi
Is this a joke

