
Dell’s gamble on Linux laptops has paid off - em3rgent0rdr
http://www.techradar.com/news/why-dells-gamble-on-linux-laptops-has-paid-off
======
luka-birsa
As a 20 year Linux user I really appreciate Dells support in proving the
market exists. This improved support across all manufacturers.

I've recently acquired a HP Envy 13 2017 laptop with Windows preinstalled.
I've really wanted to try Windows out, but after installing Google Chrome and
Docker (1hr after starting it up) it stopped working - windows boot up into a
blank black screen.

In a hurry I've downloaded Ubuntu 17.10, clicked yes and I had a working OS in
15 minutes time. With everything (suspend, broadcom card, USBC video,...)
working out of the box.

Super impressed.

If you're a developer there's no UX reason to go Windows anymore.

~~~
jmkni
Windows has gotten a lot better, but the rules regarding new computers hasn't
changed in the past 30 years, you still need to wipe the hard drive and
install it yourself from scratch, and then spend a little time disabling the
ads, bing crap, telemetry, etc.

Once you do, it's rock solid, but it should be OOTB and it annoys me that it
isn't. It leaves those not familiar with Windows with a bad first impression,
and those tech savvy enough to install Linux just don't come back.

~~~
Kipters
There's an option in Windows Defender settings that automatically wipes the
hard drive and reinstalls from scratch, without the manufacturer's bloatware

~~~
vini
Tried this on a Lenovo notebook and it will reinstall the Lenovo bloatware
anyways. I think this restore the initial windows image state, but the image
that came in the notebook is customized by Lenovo.

~~~
ClassyJacket
I believe it's even more sinister than that. I recall reading about a feature
of Windows 10 where it will automatically install OEM bloatware from separate
storage on the board, even if you install from a generic Window disk/USB. I'm
trying to find a source.

Edit: I cannot find a source, so take this with a grain of salt, however I do
clearly remember reading it.

~~~
g_p
I believe the one you're referring to is the "Windows Platform Binary Table
(WPBT)" feature, which has a slot in UEFI where an exe can be put, which is
run by Windows during an install.

Couple of refs for anyone interested:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10039870](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10039870)

[https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=29544745#p2954...](https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=29544745#p29544745)

~~~
tinus_hn
It actually runs on every boot, even worse. This is how overbroad nanny
software like Computrace works, you can remove it but Windows will just
reinstall it at boot.

Kind of a glaring security issue.

------
gargravarr
At my company, most of the developers use Ubuntu end-user machines, all from
Dell. Not only does this avoid us having to pay for Windows licenses we never
use, but we know the hardware is actually going to work fine with it. There's
some quirks, of course - Ubuntu doesn't much like the 4k screens in our 13"
XPSen so there's a lot of tweaking involved, but we're getting some very good
hardware at a good price, and stuff just works. It's the right choice to
target the high-end of the market, since the users are likely highly Linux-
knowledgeable and so far we've never had to contact Dell for any software
issues, which is going to improve their profits while our stuff just keeps
working.

The only issue is the long lead times between actually ordering a batch of
laptops and them being dispatched. It can be a fortnight or more. Currently I
(as the sysadmin) keep a cupboard full of them ready for use, but I never look
forward to ordering more.

~~~
lmm
> Ubuntu doesn't much like the 4k screens in our 13" XPSen so there's a lot of
> tweaking involved

> stuff just works

I can't reconcile these two statements.

~~~
bitexploder
This harkens back to the classic Unix statement, "Unix is user friendly, it is
just picky about its friends."

I must agree that the support of high DPI displays is not optimal just yet.
However, it is not that bad. At a corporate level one person can do the
tweaking and create a great user experience for an entire organization.

Given the amount of tweaking and "management" goo organizations foist upon the
average OSX installation blasting out a few lines of DPI tweak commands is
almost nothing.

So it just works in the sense that you can do sane configuration activity and
it behaves as you might expect.

Also, Unity out of the box is still pretty good on a scale like this: very
bad, bad, tolerable, pretty good, good, great. It does "just work" for the
most part :)

~~~
AnIdiotOnTheNet
> "Unix is user friendly, it is just picky about its friends."

Specifically, all of its friends are masochists.

------
chatmasta
It's funny how a primary criticism of consumer linux is "you'll have trouble
running it on any laptop you pick at random." Isn't this an unfair criticism?
If you apply the same logic to MacOS (only works on _one_ laptop!) or Windows
(only works on laptops specifically designed for it), Linux begins to look
extremely compatible in comparison.

Linux has demonstrated itself to be compatible with nearly any hardware
combination imaginable, to various degrees of usability. It runs on everything
from tiny embedded microcontrollers to supercomputers. MacOS and Windows
cannot say the same.

It is perfectly valid to criticize the frequency of driver incompatibility.
However, this criticism should not be leveled at Linux. It should be directed
at the hardware manufacturers who do not release Linux drivers for their
products, or the software vendors like Microsoft and Apple, who forego open
standards in favor of proprietary protocols.

The fact that hardware vendors can successfully produce and market a "Linux
first" laptop shows that those vendors are responsible for any incompatibility
in their other products. They've proved they can make compatible hardware, so
why don't they do it by default?

~~~
LeifCarrotson
> or Windows (only works on laptops specifically designed for it)

Windows also works well on laptops specifically designed for MacOS. It helps
that all the commodity parts that Apple uses were designed for other Windows
laptops. Plus, Apple has put some effort into Boot Camp to ensure that Windows
can be loaded, and Microsoft has probably spent some effort making sure that
Windows runs well on Apple hardware, but that's one example of a machine not
designed for Windows which still runs it.

Unfortunately, that's basically the only example of a laptop which is not
designed for Windows that I can think of. Perhaps the Novena laptop [1] is an
example of a laptop not designed for Windows? Are there others?

[1]: [https://spectrum.ieee.org/consumer-electronics/portable-
devi...](https://spectrum.ieee.org/consumer-electronics/portable-
devices/novena-a-laptop-with-no-secrets)

~~~
chatmasta
ChromeBook would be a good example.

~~~
LeifCarrotson
That it would, thanks for pointing it out!

------
oliwarner
I _wanted_ to throw my money at Dell last year. I wanted the top of the line
XPS laptop with Linux. But I needed it quick. At that point, at least, Dell
were building them to order in China. Two weeks _plus shipping_ for the UK
market.

I'm not sure if this is the same for their other models but I bet there's a
big pile of Windows machines sitting in an EU warehouse.

To add insult to injury, I asked if they could improve the price in a web chat
and the guy botched it so hard he added an extra £93 onto the price.
Outsourced, off-shored support at its very worst.

In the end I dropped a fraction of the money on a next-day-delivered Thinkpad
13, tore Windows off it and raised another flag for glorious penguin.

~~~
_Codemonkeyism
No, same with Win10 machines.

Bought an XPS13 maxed out from Dell. Website deceivably back then said 2 days
shipping, but I didn't realize it meant 2 days to deliver it to the carrier
and the 3 weeks to Germany from China. Website made it look like it was in
Europe when I ordered. BIOS gives smoke detection loudness (!) level alarms at
night when some hardware part fails and laptop reboots.

Beside that, hardware is crappy, get's too hot, also hardware gives load
pitching and buzzing noises when under load. Keyboard has problems too. I
can't run Linux b/c I've stupidly ordered NVMe.

Would never again buy Dell, I'm back with Apple for my next laptop.

~~~
plq
FWIW, my Lenovo T460s also has NVMe and it works just fine via /dev/nvme*. Eg.
my boot partition is /dev/nvme0n1p1

~~~
oliwarner
Yeah I'm using nvme on a few machines. No issue.

------
eli_gottlieb
Sorry, I'm gonna have to flame Dell out here.

I own a Dell XPS 13 9365, a 2-in-1 laptop. Dell have decided, arbitrarily, not
to support Linux on this machine, but you can still actually make it run by
disabling Secure Boot and setting the SATA mode to AHCI. Even then, Ubuntu
doesn't seem to detect when you've rotated the screen for tablet mode or stuff
like that -- but that's probably Ubuntu's driver support. The machine also
can't wake up from suspend mode, which I suspect is a driver thing.

Problem is, if you then apply a typical, recommended firmware upgrade from
your Ubuntu Software Manager, it bricks the laptop. The problem being,
"applying" the firmware upgrade in Ubuntu just primes it to run when you
restart the computer. When you restart the computer, the BIOS detects a
present firmware upgrade and applies it, without apparently double-checking
that, you know, this _isn 't gonna brick the computer_. I now have to wait for
a technician to arrive today and replace my motherboard, then figure out how
to change those BIOS settings _again_ so that I can boot back into Linux.

Maybe Ubuntu could have stopped this by detecting compatibility issues between
the firmware package and the hardware. Dell's BIOS _definitely_ should have
stopped this by detecting the compatibility issue between its own settings and
the firmware package. Alternately, if the issue is that, for instance, the
BIOS won't check these packages because I've disabled Secure Boot, the BIOS
needs to bloody well differentiate between Secure Boot for operating systems
(which we want off, because _we own our laptops, thank you very much_ ) and
for BIOS/firmware packages (which we want _on_ , because why brick a good
machine?).

Overall, great machine, but bad Dell, no cookie.

~~~
rlpb
I really wanted this same laptop, but I got the 9360 in the end because of the
lack of Ubuntu support on the 9365.

> Dell have decided, arbitrarily, not to support Linux on this
> machine...Ubuntu doesn't seem to detect when you've rotated the screen for
> tablet mode or stuff like that

I suspect that this is exactly the reason why Dell decided not to ship with
Ubuntu on this particular machine. I'm not sure that GNOME has support for
tablet mode yet; Unity 7 (16.04 LTS) certainly doesn't.

> Maybe Ubuntu could have stopped this by detecting compatibility issues
> between the firmware package and the hardware.

Firmware updates come directly from [https://fwupd.org/](https://fwupd.org/) I
believe. Ubuntu (like other distributions) doesn't have anything to do with
distribution and release management of the the firmware blobs themselves;
that's done entirely by Dell I believe.

> Dell's BIOS definitely should have stopped this by detecting the
> compatibility issue between its own settings and the firmware package.

What exactly do you mean by "brick"? Dell explicitly don't support Ubuntu on
this particular machine. If you had been running Windows, would you still be
stuck? If not, I don't think you can reasonably blame Dell here. They don't QA
with Ubuntu (or any Linux) on this hardware, and you knew this before you
purchased.

~~~
eli_gottlieb
>Ubuntu (like other distributions) doesn't have anything to do with
distribution and release management of the the firmware blobs themselves;
that's done entirely by Dell I believe.

Indeed, and yet here y'all are, saying that if I didn't want a brick, I
shouldn't have run Linux. Ubuntu didn't do anything to the hardware, it just
queued up a Dell-distributed, Dell-released firmware update to run upon BIOS
POST.

Since this update was _supplied by the manufacturer_ , I expect that _at the
very least_ , it can check for BIOS settings which render the update
incompatible, and should _most probably_ just, you know, install itself
cleanly. It should never, ever brick the machine, because why in the hell is
the manufacturer sending me something that bricks their own hardware?

>What exactly do you mean by "brick"?

By brick I mean _brick_. It fails POST and the several input combinations for
resetting to a clean BIOS don't work either. Dell is having to send a
technician to me to replace the motherboard, after which I can once again
figure out the BIOS settings to run Ubuntu cleanly.

This doesn't mean that Ubuntu crashes after GRUB loads it. It means the BIOS
no longer loads, period, let alone GRUB and Ubuntu.

>Dell explicitly don't support Ubuntu on this particular machine. If you had
been running Windows, would you still be stuck? If not, I don't think you can
reasonably blame Dell here. They don't QA with Ubuntu (or any Linux) on this
hardware, and you knew this before you purchased.

 _Bull_. They QA their own BIOS and firmware. The whole point of firmware-
BIOS-OS separation is that the operating system never even _speaks_ to the
BIOS directly. BIOS runs the bootloader, bootloader loads the OS, OS proceeds
according to a standard for how PCs are run. What I do to customize the
machine is my responsibility, but proprietary updates from the manufacturer
are theirs. If I've altered the BIOS settings to run a different operating
system, the update needs to detect the altered settings and, if necessary,
refuse to run. Then I can get on with my usage of the machine I bought.

It's not my job customize their firmware, nor should their firmware updates
have compatibility issues that cripple the BIOS, ever, period.

~~~
rlpb
> Bull. They QA their own BIOS and firmware. The whole point of firmware-BIOS-
> OS separation is that the operating system never even speaks to the BIOS
> directly. BIOS runs the bootloader, bootloader loads the OS, OS proceeds
> according to a standard for how PCs are run.

The complexity here is that the firmware updates shipped for Linux may well
take a different QA path to the firmware updates shipped for Windows, as the
distribution channels are different. Further, manufacturers usually try to
unify (to some level) firmware updates for different systems into fewer actual
binary blobs to reduce release engineering workload.

What keeps a complex system such as this working smoothly is QA. Dell cannot
reasonably be expected to spend effort on QAing combinations they clearly do
not support.

While the fact that your system was bricked is likely a bug that should not
have happened, nevertheless I think it's unreasonable to blame Dell for this
as viciously as you are doing because they do not support or QA that
combination and cannot be expected to do so. That they're fixing it is the
most I think you can reasonably expect.

I understand that you've accidentally ended up having a poor experience here.
But you can't reasonably expect that to reflect on the experience others might
get following a path Dell actually supports and can reasonably be expected to
actually QA.

~~~
eli_gottlieb
>The complexity here is that the firmware updates shipped for Linux may well
take a different QA path to the firmware updates shipped for Windows, as the
distribution channels are different.

Assuming that they're all still Dell-made firmware blobs, I don't see why
they'd be different at all. Anything that Ubuntu can "do to them" ought to
ruin the signature. Only an authentic Dell firmware blob should actually make
it through the BIOS' checks to installation.

It's like saying, "look, you opened our cryptographically signed file under
our system, sure, but you _downloaded_ it through an unsupported channel."

------
NiklasMort
meanwhile in Thinkpad land...

honestly I never understand why people go for Macbooks or XPS. X/T model user
since 7 generations. I did look at the XPS but there are so many disadvantages
with those modern one-body-all-closed-no-mods laptops.

Before you down vote me, I still applaud Dells decision to get Ubuntu Laptops
out there. But I don't really see what the big game changer is whether a
laptop comes preinstalled with Ubuntu or if I do it myself.

~~~
unhammer
> I don't really see what the big game changer is whether a laptop comes
> preinstalled with Ubuntu or if I do it myself.

It means a certain level of support. They're actively trying to make this
thing run Linux well, instead of leaving it up to "the community". And you
don't have to go reading forums or blog posts before buying just to figure out
if it will have some stupid UEFI bug or whatever that makes installing Linux
on it a real hassle.

Although I prefer Thinkpads, I very much understand why people want Macbook-
like computers – they look quite nice! You shouldn't have to fit into some
black-and-blue mold just to run Linux.

~~~
NiklasMort
Lenovo did the same in the early days at least, they were very aware of having
to produce high compatibility laptops. Not so much for the point of open
source but for business usage which sometimes required non-windows OS's. But
sure I applaud Dell. The world should rid of Windows.

~~~
castle-bravo
No longer, apparently. A colleague if mine has had some headaches with ubuntu
on his legion Y520, including no wifi connectivity at work. My T430 has no
problems though.

~~~
pritambaral
AFAIK, the Y-series line is not a ThinkPad line. What the parent said applied
to the ThinkPad line, which is treated differently by Lenovo to their consumer
lines.

------
loeg
Ironically enough, inside Dell there is an initiative to push everyone onto
Windows, no Mac or Linux. With no exception for engineering.

~~~
CamTin
How did you hear this?

~~~
humblebee
I can actually confirm this, through a third party. I use to work for EMC, and
left in early 2017, but still have a lot of friends still working there. Going
forward employees were no longer going to be able to connect to the VPN with
anything other than the Dell official Windows img. This mostly just meant that
any work laptop must run Windows. Developer workstations could still run
Linux, at least in the office I worked in as the IT there was not EMC or Dell,
but our own internal that originated prior to our EMC acquisition many years
ago.

I could see other organizations which were not so disconnected from Dell EMC
being force further down Windows. Their solution is to run Linux in a VM,
which is just unfortunate given the work and the product.

~~~
loeg
EMC acquisition — Isilon by any chance? :-)

~~~
humblebee
Hello :-) _00_

------
colordrops
Got the XPS 9560 from Costco, which they sell at the max configuration (32gb
ram, 1tb SSD, 4k touch screen, nvidia 1050) for a few hundred dollars cheaper
than Dell, and it's a beast. Got Ubuntu running on it without too much
trouble, though it required a bit of tweaking. Only thing that doesn't have a
driver is the fingerprint scanner. I'm extremely happy with it so far. Have
had no stability issues at all. Only real issue is not the laptop so much as
Linux with patchy software support for 4k screens. I run Xmonad as my desktop
so I have to configure several things manually to work with HiDPI.

~~~
jorgemf
In arch that laptop works pretty well without tweaks.

Don't try to use the GPU and the CPU at the same time for longer than 5
minutes or you will be very disappointed (I own the same model).

~~~
colordrops
What are you referring to? Does it overheat? Battery run down?

~~~
quincunx
I don't know what jorgemf is referring to but I own the same laptop. It's bad
at switching between the intel and nvidia GPUs, most notably in Chrome it even
causes lockups. Pretty sad they haven't resolved it yet, out of the box Chrome
is now locked down to Intel on Win10.

~~~
jorgemf
You need to use Bumblebee for this, and then launch the apps with primusrun or
optirun. Some programs like steam doesn't need anything, and work without
issues.

------
deadprogram
I had the first version, currently on am on my second version of the Dell XPS
13 developer edition, and about to order a brand new one to replace it. It is
a really great package.

Not to mention having HW from a major company like Dell with all the drivers
already in the Linux kernel means you can pretty much run any distro you want
and it "just works".

~~~
kupiakos
I'm currently waiting on the 8th gen CPU version (9370) of the Developer
Edition to come out.

~~~
sofaofthedamned
Yeah, love my 9360 but the CPU has a serious lack of grunt sometimes. I'd
prefer a Ryzen version with AMD GPU though, and HP have just announced one.

------
oskenso
I bought an XPS 13 9360 and immediately installed linux on it and it's been
running flawlessly. After shopping around for a good linux-compatible laptop,
I found that nothing beat the dell in terms of support. I couldn't be happier!
I love what Dell has done with their premium laptops and I hope to replace
this machine with a future XPS when the time comes. (I bought the windows
version because it was $50 less than the developer edition for some reason.)

------
shermozle
I bought a Thinkpad specifically because Dell refuse to sell me their Linux
laptop here in Australia. Thinkpad was better hardware for the money, but I
would've bought the Dell if they'd supported it.

------
linux-user
Is Dell still offering those? I cannot find anything. For example this dell
page has no current offerings:
[http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/555/campaigns/dell-linux-
ubu...](http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/555/campaigns/dell-linux-ubuntu-en)

~~~
majewsky
Yeah, I'm puzzled as well. Upon reading the article, I tried to find Linux
notebooks via their homepage (i.e. by starting at dell.com), but found
nothing.

~~~
bubblethink
Go to dell.com/developers . Dell's site is quite a disaster in general. It
boggles the mind how hard it is for this giant corporations (Dell, Lenovo, HP)
to make a halfway usable website.

~~~
pbkhrv
None of the 15" Precision series laptops linked from that page seem to be
available with Linux on their dedicated sales pages... Weird.

Edit: they don't list Linux as being available until you go to "Customize and
Buy".

~~~
bubblethink
Yes, poor websites. It's also hard to find a xeon-m + ecc memory without
nvidia being added as a punishment. 7520 is the only one with such a config,
and even that is a bad fit with other compromises.

------
bluedino
What's the holdup on DE/WM getting hidpi support? It seems like it would be
possible to handle it as Macs do, but Linux support for it is just awful.
Inconsistencies all over the place.

Using multiple monitors can be another pain point. It works for the most part,
but full-screen a video on one monitor and you get flashing and artifacts on
the others, you'll "lose" a screen, all kinds of weird stuff. And that's
Fedora/Ubuntu/SuSE on two different laptops.

~~~
Sir_Cmpwn
It's hard, we're unpaid, and we have to do it in our free time. Consider
setting up a recurring donation to desktops you want to support.

------
discordianfish
I'm using a Dell simply because it's the only option beside Thinkpads that are
'known to work' on current linux distributions. For the Thinkpad I would have
had to wait 3 weeks, which again was the only reason for the Dell.

Point is, nobody seems to care about linux desktop users for obvious reasons,
being a niche in a shrinking market.

------
macco
I wonder how many machines Dell is really selling. Or if project Sputnik is
more of marketing ploy, to get popular with developers.

Linux users are very tough customers in my experience.

And the strategy to have plain Ubuntu installed makes them very vulnarable to
competitors. The should have developed their own flavor like System76 is doing
with PopOS, imo.

~~~
jhasse
> And the strategy to have plain Ubuntu installed makes them very vulnarable
> to competitors. The should have developed their own flavor like System76 is
> doing with PopOS, imo.

For me it's a plus, similar to manufacturers shipping stock Android. I'd
replace anything pre-installed with Fedora anyway though.

~~~
bevax
Furthermore, it is a big effort to maintain a distribution, started from
maintaining infrastructure, doing QA, especially ensure security, get releases
out… while in the end the buyer typically has his own choice (or requirement)
of distribution. Therefore, I think it is more then reasonable to pick out
one, but also ensure drivers for all the used hardware make it into the
kernel.

------
zmix
I just entered "linux" on Dell's german site and "nothing found". Great!

~~~
datboihereitcom
Here you go: [http://www.dell.com/de-de/shop/dell-
notebooks/xps-13-develop...](http://www.dell.com/de-de/shop/dell-
notebooks/xps-13-developer-edition/spd/xps-13-9350-laptop-ubuntu)

------
netsec_burn
The last time I went to Dell specifically to buy a Linux laptop the option
wasn't available. I just had to uninstall Windows. The market is here, I'll be
looking to buy an XPS with Ubuntu preloaded but please make them available!

------
madengr
The dumb thing is that it was cheaper for me to buy my XPS 13 from Microcenter
and delete Windows, than get the Developers Edition from Dell.

Had to sticker over the damned Windows logo on the bottom with a Tux sticker;
didn’t feel right.

~~~
AdmiralAsshat
Similar thing happened to me--was just browsing Craigslist one night (looking
for a cheap ThinkPad, actually), and stumbled across a listing for a fully
decked-out XPS 13, lightly used, for $800. I really had no choice. Wiped
Windows, replaced the Broadcom wifi with an Intel chip, and loaded Fedora onto
it.

That model was a 9343, however, and when my extended warranty runs out for it
in 2019, I will likely buy a new Developer Edition. The Dell guys have said
that loading Linux after purchase doesn't help their numbers--you _need_ to
buy the Developer Edition from them in order for their marketing people to
gauge interest in Linux.

------
owenjones
Hmm, so after reading the article I searched for: dell linux laptop and
clicked the first link to dell.com

On the product page for the 13 inch XPS Linux I saw a notification: "Sorry,
this item is not available anymore for purchase online. Please see our
recommended replacement product." And a quick Ctrl-f for 'recommended' or
'replacement' turned up nothing. When I went to the product browser and
clicked Operating System the only choices were Windows 7 and Windows 10.

After this experience I'm not entirely convinced Dell actually sells Linux
laptops.

------
lowry
They should have taken the Latitude 6 or 7 series for Linux laptops. XPS is a
toy, the other two are mid-range and high-end workhorses, exactly the kind
professional developers and corporate buyers acquire.

~~~
CaptainDecisive
I have a Macbook Pro (2015 15") at work and a Dell XPS 15 (9550) at home, and
personally feel that I'm a very lucky lad to have the two best laptops in the
world. My previous job I had a couple of high-end Dell Precision laptops and
while they were nice enough machines they were bricks compared to my current
laptops, which look far better, feel much nicer, slip unnoticeably into my
backpack for my bike commute, and yet have all the heavy hitting hardware I
need for my GIS development work. For me, the "toys" win hands down.

------
swalsh
I recently bought an XPS 13 developers edition from the website after my
macbook's screen randomly died (it was old, and ready for an upgrade anyways)

looking at new macbooks, I was unhappy with the lack of a USB slot, thought
the fancy bar on the top was unnecessary, and generally you just seemed to get
less for the same money.

I NEEDED the laptop right away. The website said it would take 4 days or so.
So I waited, then they delayed the order. I couldn't wait, so I decided to
cancel the order. I found Microcenter had an XPS 15, which for all practical
purposes seemed like the same thing just slightly "better". So I bought that
and threw Ubuntu on it.

More or less, it works fine. But I'm not "Wow this is the best laptop ever". I
have 1 big complaint. While I'm typing, every once in a while the cursor will
skip around. It is infuriating. I'm not sure if it's a hardware or driver
issue. My second issue is probably more of an ubuntu issue... but the 4k
resolution of the screen (which is actually pretty great) can make some
windows scaled super small. From a softer point of view, I don't feel like the
frame around this laptop is as durable as the macbook's. I'm very careful when
I handle it, because I'm certain one accidental drop, and it's all gone. I
dropped my macbook (accidentally!) probably 50 times. No issue.

I really like running ubuntu as my main machine, but this doesn't feel like
the "high-end" machine I dreamed about.

~~~
lmm
> While I'm typing, every once in a while the cursor will skip around. It is
> infuriating. I'm not sure if it's a hardware or driver issue.

I've seen this happen when my palm was hitting the touchpad and I didn't have
the right drivers for it - the default touchpad driver "works" but is missing
the palm detection functionality in the "proper" touchpad drivers for that
hardware. It might be worth looking up the specific touchpad (via lspci or
similar) and seeing if there's a driver for touchpads from that manufacturer.
You may have to edit the driver's list of PCI IDs.

~~~
bproven
Same here - I had to end up using touchpad-indicator to fix this (disables the
touchpad while typing). Its a shame it doesn't work out of the box and
requires this hack.

------
solarized
I hate M$ monopoly in laptop market. So i start looking for best linux laptop
4 years ago. I use ubuntu-wiki-laptop [0] as my buying reference. The choice
was Dell Vostro 5470 non-os. This is my main machine since then. As a
developer i can say this type are outstanding.

I start with ubuntu 14.04 + gnome-classic. At the beginning the problem just
the stereo and volume drivers, solved with patch from launchpad.

Almost my work done in terminal (vim, mocp, bash, psql, mysql, etc). Things
that need gui just google-chrome + libreOffice suite. Battery also work great
and has no issues with OS, Almost 5 hours average from full charge.

Thanks Dell, thanks canonical. [0]
[https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport/Machines/Laptops](https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport/Machines/Laptops)

------
throw7
Where/how do you order a linux dell laptop? On the drop down for Operating
System only "Windows" options are available. If I search for "linux" I get
Canonical support packages and the phrase "Dell recommends Windows" in the top
right.

¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

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ordinaryperson
Not a Dell shill but I bought a Dell Linux laptop 18 months ago, a Mobile
Precision 5510, and I've never been happier.

When the machine arrived I had to disable UEFI Secure Boot to get it working,
which seemed to fry the soundcard. I called Dell, was quickly escalated to
"Level 3" support, and after a brief diagnostic they sent out a technician to
my place of work to replace the motherboard on site the NEXT DAY. I've never
had another problem since.

Honestly, what more could they have done, give me a back rub?

The only downsides are no support for Linux support for Apple iTunes and Adobe
Photoshop (yes, there's GIMP, but it's not the same). Otherwise it's better in
every way, IMHO.

------
YSS_i3wm
I'm using Linux with i3wm and one thing that Windows keep beating Linux over
is font rendering.

Font rendering just sucks on Linux, if you like it or not. Microsoft got a few
patents end of the 90s and their fonts clearness are just the best. End of
story.

~~~
thomastjeffery
That as been the opposite of my experience for the last 5+ years.

In my experience, Windows has been the _worst_ at font rendering, and Linux
(freetype) the _best_ , with OS X somewhere in the middle (closer to Linux).

Of course, there are edge cases, especially if you are trying to use Windows'
fonts, but I very rarely run into them.

------
NightlyDev
There are still issues using Linux on XPS laptops from Dell, but funny enough
Windows has had both huge touchpad and audio issues for a couple of
years(probably a lot of changes with Win10).

Heck, I've bought one of each of the three latest(?) XPS 13 laptops, all with
windows even though it has been replaced by Ubuntu the day I got them.

Dell does show windows versions on the website before the Linux alternative
shows up, and I guess the Linux version would sell even better if we didn't
just buy one with windows as we know Dell is working on ensuring Linux
support.

Good job Dell, I hope this stuff continues!

------
Hextinium
Can someone explain to me why it is so difficult to produce hardware that is
identical to current offerings but with software that is different? Is it
driver conflicts and BIOS problems?

~~~
zootboy
Because there are lots and lots of chipsets that work somewhere in the range
of horribly to not-at-all in Linux (Realtek and Broadcom spring to mind for
poor Linux support with their WiFi chipsets). And any driver that hasn't been
upstreamed creates a boatload of work for the support engineers, since kernel
updates tend to break out-of-tree drivers on a semi-regular basis.

~~~
AstralStorm
You have a bit outdated info here. Both are generally fine considering recent
hardware. The drivers are upstream now.

(The problem is nonredistributable blobs.)

Ralink is fine too. In fact most trouble is with new Atheros chips after their
latest corporate takeover.

------
smhg
If you don't need the portability of a laptop and want a similar package to
the Dell XPS for _a lot_ less money: an Intel NUC might be an idea.

I've been using one for almost a year after my XPS 13 9343 got stolen. Dell's
significant price increase on the newer models made me try out the NUC and
it's been great so far.

If you stick to these 'mainstream' components (the XPS and NUC have very
similar hardware), Linux support really isn't an issue. "It just works".

~~~
arvinsim
What specific NUC are your referring to?

~~~
smhg
I meant these: [https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/boards-
kits...](https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/boards-
kits/nuc/kits.html)

------
microcolonel
The Dell Precision 5520 can have a 97Wh battery, that's pretty slick (though
it'd be slicker if it were hot swappable, with a small internal battery like
you get on the ThinkPad X2xx and T4xx[s]). It'd also be nice if the site
didn't just redirect me to the homepage when I connect from Canada. The only
way to even look at the specs on a Canadian IP is to download the PDF spec
sheets.

------
jopsen
I tried XPS about a year ago. I ordered the top model with Ubuntu. But had to
return it due to high frequency noise from CPU.

It was also super heavy compared to my X1 carbon. And then the noise, the kind
of thing not worth trying to get them to repair because it's likely a design
flaw.

------
techspring
I bought a Precision laptop preloaded with Ubuntu about 8 months ago and it's
been awesome. The only problem I've run into is that I completely lose audio
every time I reboot. A quick visit to alsamixer resolves the issue though, so
not a huge deal.

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crudfactory2
Unless you live in Canada! Then it's radio silence.

Reminds me why I used to dislike Dell so much.

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mcs_
I bought a precision with ubuntu (replaced by mint) in January, xeon plus an
ocean of ram. An incredible fast machine. Thanks dell. Next time I will
probably try system76.

------
PopsiclePete
I need the XPS 9370 DE like right now! I have the 9350 and it’s been great.
Good quality build, light, great screen, solid, works flawlessly with Debian
9.

------
ElijahLynn
Great read, here is some wishful thinking to hoping they get a X1 Yoga-style
convertible added to that list!

My current dream computer is an X1 Yoga convertible.

