
Why Mac users don’t rant about the OS - kracalo
http://www.itsmdaily.com/2013/12/06/why-mac-users-dont-rant-about-the-os
======
Udo
The article misses the mark completely. The main thesis is that Mac OS did
change only incrementally, while Windows leaps chaotically between new
features and philosophies. That's not true, and in fact the illustrations used
contradict the conclusions drawn in the article.

For example, when they talk about the introduction of the proto Dock in Mac
OS, they say "no major changes in UI". But when Windows introduces the Start
menu and task bar that's changing the UI "completely". Then come the
incremental UI refinements and color changes that coincide with new graphics
capabilities, again this is heralded as being more of the same for Mac but
radically different with each version of Windows. Looking at these screenshots
_which show similar trends in UI development_ side by side and coming to
wildly different conclusions in the face of those similarities is just a
stunning display of cognitive dissonance.

The change to Metro would be the only big jump where the article is actually
right in asserting a real change, if we'd be willing to forget the fact that
Metro (or whatever it's called now) is nothing but a thin veneer you have to
get past in order to access the real Windows, which is of course pretty much a
clone of its predecessor.

All this just to explain a conclusion from an anecdote, a conclusion which the
article itself proves wrong unwittingly. Even if we accept that OS X users
don't buy books about their OS and don't rant as much (which I find
particularly out of touch with reality), that's because there are vastly more
Windows users around. Because the numbers are so great, there are also a lot
of Windows users who lack the tech intuition but want to learn, so they buy a
book about it. OS X clientele is just by and large different. That's where the
real difference lies.

~~~
pit
I agree. The GUI changes in Windows (pre-8) are pretty negligible. Your Start
button used to be rectangular; now it's a circle. Big whoop.

The most frustrating thing for me about Windows over the years is that the
path to perform routine tasks is always changing.

~~~
Goladus
_Your Start button used to be rectangular; now it 's a circle. Big whoop_

Between versions of windows there are fairly substantial changes in how the
start menu is organized and how a user can customize it. I'm using Windows 7
and I'm still not sure how the items in the primary menu are selected to be
there. It usually seems to have what I'm looking for so I don't worry too
much. But it's not as usable as I remember from older versions of windows.

That said, I do think the article sells windows short unfairly. It's true that
(pre Windows-8, anyway) key gui features of windows have remained consistent
between versions. I haven't ranted about Windows in a long time (other
Microsoft products, that's a different story).

Incidentally, I believe the particular feature you refer to, the start menu as
a general principle, is one of the best design choices microsoft ever made.
It's not the most efficient way to organize a UI, but a hierarchical system is
a great way to design for incremental discovery.

~~~
FireBeyond
"I'm using Windows 7 and I'm still not sure how the items in the primary menu
are selected to be there."

Most recently used. And by implication, most commonly used.

"It usually seems to have what I'm looking for so I don't worry too much."

Et voila.

~~~
Goladus
_Most recently used. And by implication, most commonly used._

Well, which is it? There appear to be two categories, one on the top and one
on the bottom. Both appear to be some formula of recently used, commonly used,
and likely to use again but it's not clear what the difference is or what the
secret sauce part of the formula is (.exe size, for example?). The only thing
it's obviously NOT, is a strict "recently used" formula. Also the submenus are
just weird. It would seem to be "recently used files" for the associated
application but with putty, for example, there's only a single random .jpg
file and attempting to open it causes an error. Obviously I suppose, putty
can't open jpgs, but why is it even there and how do I get rid of it? No idea.
I can "unpin" it but it doesn't go away.

Also, to the main point-- the contents of that menu have changed substantially
from windows XP, meaning that I pretty much have to throw away most of what I
learned from the previous version.

It's really a mess. Some things I launch from the start menu, others I launch
from a desktop icon, others I have to search for using the search box. Outlook
and firefox are in the quicklaunch area. Even one tool I use all the time
(procexp.exe) never gets added to the start menu, yet the videogame LIMBO is
there, which I played once last year over the course of a few days and then
opened it once for 5 minutes 1-2 weeks ago and haven't touched it in the
interim.

It's not that it's so horrible I can't get things done, but all this UI change
improves nothing about my user experience over windows XP (which still had a
section for recently used apps, which was a convenient and useful addition to
the core design.). The search is faster, and adding search with a new results
UI as the fallback behavior to what used to be the "run..." command window was
a very sensible tweak.

But the new UI tends to cause some minor annoyances any time I want to do
anything of the sort of power-user stuff I used to do when I was younger. My
prior knowledge of windows is rapidly becoming useless and I'm getting very
little from the OS in return.

------
leothekim
The joke used to go: Windows users blame Microsoft, Mac users blame
themselves.

(Linux users just fix the problem on their own.)

I concur with other posters saying that Mac users ranted a lot when going from
Mac OS 9 to OS X 10.0, and they had a lot to rant about. OS X felt slow and
didn't support lots of devices, and was a brand new paradigm of computing for
them at the time. Now, a lot of stuff just works, much like Mac OS felt like
it did.

~~~
jedrek
Linux users just try another distro.

~~~
Mikeb85
Depends at what stage they're at in their Linux adventures...

Some will try a new distro with better defaults, others will just change their
set-up themselves...

~~~
dman
Agree with this - switched to dwm and setup some config files and am now
unaffected by the changes blowing through gnome, unity, kde etc.

------
captainmuon
Funny how they the article turns the stagnation of OS X into a benefit.

Also interesting that Windows users now rant about their OS, where they used
to rave about most releases instead. I remember being genuinely excited about
Windows 95, 98, 2000, XP, Longhorn (but was disappointed by Vista) and 7. I
was even tempted to buy a new version from my saved pocket money as a kid - I
eventually got pirated versions of 2000 and later XP though :-).

Nowadays, I dread new OS releases. Be it Windows, OS X, Linux (Ubuntu, Gnome)
- OSes and desktop environments get heavier with each release, yet loose
features, and get hideously redesigned because Touch and UX, LOL.

From that perspective, the stagnation of OS X _really is_ a virtue, since
Apple is at least not messing it up.

(I like the inverted scrolling from Lion, the new notifications are useful,
and Mission Control is not bad. I can pretend Launchpad is not there. OS X
feels like Ubuntu anno 2010 or XP with a Mac theme, which is a good thing.)

~~~
mulletbum
It's odd because I am a long time Windows user and just recently (2 years ago)
bought a Mac. I have to say the things I dislike the most about recent Mac UI
is the dock, notifications, and mission control.

The dock staple is part of my biggest problem with my Mac. It takes of screen
space and is completely useless after I open the couple programs I am working
in. Sure, you can auto hide it, but the transition, plus deal with it randomly
popping up on my screen make it extremely cumbersome.

This is where Windows 8.1 gets things right (and some wrong). You can make the
menu on the bottom extremely thin, then use an overlay transition to choose
your programs.

This is why on Mac I wish I could just rid myself of the dock completely and
use Launchpad. I don't understand why there is both. When I minimize a program
and want to go back to it I just pop launchpad open and click the app again.

Most of all these both work perfectly with touch based screens. I personally
don't have any touch based screens yet, but that is the way technology is
going and it embraces it while still making it useful for mousing.

~~~
ollysb
If you're a power user do yourself a favour and install Alfred[1]. You can
keep the dock hidden and launch/switch_to apps with a couple of keystrokes.

[1] [http://www.alfredapp.com/](http://www.alfredapp.com/)

~~~
FireBeyond
I’ve installed Alfred, bought the Powerpack, and a couple of Workflows and
this… I agree. I’m nowhere an /Alfred/ power user, but I just need to devote
some time.

I did things like “replace” Spotlight with Alfred. Need to connect to my work
VPN? Cmd Space, “vpn con”.

------
vinothgopi
Well mac users do rant too. A lot actually.

If not for the title, I think you do have a point here. I've had a mac for
close to 6 years now and after each installation/upgrade, it feels like I'm
back on my old laptop - nothing seems to have changed drastically. And that is
a great thing. You get back to work faster knowing that things have been
improved under the hood.

------
Goladus
The meat of the linked article are pages 2 and 3, where the author gives a
breakdown and commentary of the Mac and Windows approach to UI. Those pages
are short with lots of graphics. Page 1 is stupid and page 4 is redundant.
(This paragraph is for people complaining about the supposed length of the
article and for people commenting on the title only)

The point of the article is that Apple has never made any dramatic changes to
their core UI while Microsoft never seemed to settle on one that worked. While
I disagree in many respects, the author makes a reasonable case.

The truth is that for most windows (and even mac users), they tend to be
locked in to their OS of choice for other reasons and just deal with whatever
UI they get. The lesson is more relevant in the general sense and applies to
all manner of other GUI software. Windows users might be stuck with Windows
but what stopped Ubuntu users from jumping ship when Unity made arbitrary
unwanted changes to the interface? What stops Firefox users from switching to
chrome or Opera when upgrades break functionality?

~~~
edgarallenbro
I think the bigger problem with Windows 8 was a broader problem that I saw
articulated in a thread on reddit.

The thread was about how it seems like next-gen game companies seem to treat
releases like they are beta releases. Many of the games for the PS4 and Xbox
One are riddle with bugs. Companies seem to have gotten to comfortable with
the fact that they can easily release updates post-release, and it's gotten to
the point where they are releasing unfinished software to customers who expect
it to be a finished.

Major problems with Windows 8 that should never have made it past QA/UAT:

1\. Missing start menu button. Extremely confusing jump from 7. Fixed in 8.1

2\. Confusing full screen start menu. Remedied in 8.1 with tutorials and
better UI cues (down arrow for unpinned applications, embedded search bar on
all applications page)

3\. On Desktop, files should not open in metro apps by default. (still not
fixed)

There should have been a longer beta testing period, and Windows 8.1 should
have been Windows 8.

So really, I think the more important point is the mentality of the release
cycle. Windows 8 was teased long before it was finally released, so there was
a "why is this thing they _promised_ us taking so long just release it
already" effect. Apple, on the other hand, tends to hold off on announcing
their products until shortly before they're released. There's a "it's been a
while since Apple released something new, I wonder when they will release the
next thing" effect, which allows them to wait until products are more
releasable before actually announcing them

~~~
seanc722
I wouldn't say missing start menu button was "fixed" in 8.1. All they did was
put a button there that had the same functionality as that corner without a
button already had.

------
kghose
For me the Mac is nice because its command line almost matches a linux setup.
I use it because it is like a pretty Linux GUI. However finder and preview in
10.7 have some annoying glitches that I really find annoying. For example, in
preview you can no longer simply save a document you have to export/duplicate
what not. Finder has an annoying habit of trying to be too clever: if you
hover a set of files over a folder it will helpfully change the finder window
to epxose more of the target folder. Unfortunately this will change the finder
geometry causing me to often miss the target of my drop.

The OS is sufficiently different from Linux to be annoying in crucial moments
when I have too look up why a certain command does not work, or works
differently.

Also, bsd/linux source code compiling often work, but sometimes don't making
things more annoying than if they never worked and you knew what to expect.

Wait: I was just ranting. And yet I'm a mac user.

~~~
AdrianRossouw
my favorite is how they have a stupidly ridiculously low ulimit maxfiles of
256.. and keep on changing the way to persist it between os releases.

unless it's something unixey i use every day, i now just refuse to bother with
installing it on OSX. a VM is so much easier.

~~~
kghose
Hey, which VM do you use and what kind of a performance hit is there?

------
xradionut
Mac users do bitch about the OS, there's forums where they have done so for
decades. There's still folks calling for Apple to fix the fucking Finder. I
used Mac OS back in the day and was one of the early users of OS X. But none
of this was magically intuitive, people did and still bought how-to books and
spend hours Googling tips.

And yes, Windows hasn't been that great over the years, but like most tools is
manageable with effort. Windows 8.x has been a step backwards on the desktop
but Windows Phone is surprising good.

As a pro I still think GUIs are one piece of the system, but CLIs still rule
in my world.

------
AdrianRossouw
i could actually rant for hours. but it just frustrates me.

i loathe the app store to the deepest core of my being and actively resent any
software I am forced to install with it.

snow leopard was a tragedy. most people I know had their machines developing
weird quirks around then. supposedly osx only stays wonderful as long as you
always have the latest and greatest.

i now avoid new mac releases as much as possible. last time it was xcode that
forced me to upgrade. That is just the most ridiculously large installer for
gcc ever.

Oh god yes, and even if you go 'theres cli-tools' (behind a registration wall
that you have to know specifically to look for) ... last month, apple decided
to booby-trap their gcc binary to force you to open up xcode and agree to a
new license agreement before you were allowed to compile things on the command
line.

if you didnt have xcode, you had to download it, to open it up, agree to the
compulsory license agreement to unlock your cli binaries.

~~~
daughart
Why the app store hate? My work computer needed an OS re-install recently
(learned to be careful with sudo) and then they bought me a new computer
shortly after. The app store made it easy to re-install a bunch of my apps
like Evernote, Aperture, iWork, etc., and the app store keeps these constantly
upgraded. Then I had to go through and download a bunch of other non-app-store
apps (MS Office, ImageJ, Matlab, Adobe suite, Canopy, etc.), and these apps
are always popping up with their own custom update software to remind me to
update them when I open them.

I think it would be great if I could just use the app store to keep track of
all my software, easily install and uninstall it on different machines, and
keep it updated in the background.

------
Shamanmuni
This simply isn't true. The jump from Mac OS to Mac OS X was huge and Mac
users ranted for years about it. You had different file structures,
compatibility issues, and Mac OS Classic prided itself in its "out of your
way, no nonsense" GUI while OS X started the "Fisher Price" GUI era.

More than a decade has passed since then, so I don't remember all the details,
but you certainly had to learn the OS X way, just like the man learning
Windows 8.

------
kstenerud
Some examples of books on how to use a Mac:

[http://www.amazon.com/Books-Learning-How-Use-
Computer/lm/RMA...](http://www.amazon.com/Books-Learning-How-Use-
Computer/lm/RMAUY0TZ0OSRX)

[http://www.amazon.com/Macs-For-Dummies-Edward-
Baig/dp/111851...](http://www.amazon.com/Macs-For-Dummies-Edward-
Baig/dp/1118517199)

[http://www.amazon.com/My-iMac-Mountain-Lion-
Edition/dp/07897...](http://www.amazon.com/My-iMac-Mountain-Lion-
Edition/dp/0789751135)

[http://www.amazon.com/OS-Mountain-Lion-Pocket-
Guide/dp/14493...](http://www.amazon.com/OS-Mountain-Lion-Pocket-
Guide/dp/1449330320)

[http://www.amazon.com/Simple-Guide-Mac-Mountain-
Edition/dp/1...](http://www.amazon.com/Simple-Guide-Mac-Mountain-
Edition/dp/1481077570)

Doesn't seem all that different from Windows, after all. I've also heard
plenty of Mac users rant about their computers.

------
post_break
OSX doesn't do shit that pisses me off. That's what I like about it. It
doesn't do things without asking. Oh you want to shut down? How about we run
some updates first. Oh lets just reboot because I ran some updates. Hey
there's a new JAVADOBEVIRUS update you should get it. Oh you're on a laptop?
Lets run 253 updates while it's booting up, you don't need that battery life
right?

Telling my computer to do something, and having it do something completely
different is one reason why I use OSX. Sure, you can force windows to try and
be like that, but how long until an update undo's all your little tweaks
you've put in place?

------
vitoreiji
It always amuses me when people compare operating systems and all they talk
about is GUI.

~~~
cLeEOGPw
Because Linux always lose at this comparison? GUI is one of the most important
parts of OS for most people.

~~~
Mikeb85
Linux has some of the nicest DEs.

But we are used to the DE being de-coupled from the OS, and being able to
change it. For Windows and Mac the DE is a 'selling point', for Linux it isn't
because it can be changed any which way you want. I mean, in Ubuntu it's
trivial to install 10 different DEs and switch every time you log in...

~~~
sanskritabelt
14 channels of shit on the tv screen.

~~~
Mikeb85
Lol. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'd personally take Unity or Gnome
Shell over Windows' or OSX's UI anyday...

------
petepete
2 sets of pagination links, one broken.

~~~
cognivore
That was how the page started, and they didn't want to change it so as to not
upset anyone by making them have to cope with new page UI. Even if it would
work better.

------
ebbv
This is a terrible article which is made worse by unnecessarily being broken
up into 4 pages to quadruple ad views.

Mac users bitch about the OS. It just so happens we're at a point where
Windows 8 is a drastic change from Windows 7 and OS X hasn't made any drastic
changes for a while.

------
finder83
At least in my circle of friends, and company, which are pretty much all Mac
users, the basic premise that they don't rant, complain, or talk about Mac OS
is completely flawed. I have to hear about problems with every Mac OS release
for days and weeks after each release, and get tired of the cross-chatter
about it. The Mac users I know talk about and complain about Mac OS probably
more than any other topic I hear them talk about, nearly as much as sports
fans talk about sports.

I'm really just jealous that the people I know don't all use Linux and aren't
as passionate about it. :-/ But there's a certain blindness when you're the
fan to how much you fan out about things.

------
ChikkaChiChi
Apple features are only used when you explicitly call for them. Otherwise the
entire Finder experience can be considered almost kiosk-like in its
simplicity.

If you do want to learn how to use a new feature, you have to Google it just
like the rest of us.

If you have a problem with OSX, prepare to enter the dark world of the Apple
Forums where any expectation of something working outside of Apple's narrow
definition of functionality will be met with derision and ridicule.

But is OSX is a slow torture than Windows 8 is a rocket launcher to the head.

I've never understood why we have to 'like' one over another. Can't we just
hold them all to a higher standard?

------
neeks
_yawn_

Anyone that has been tinkering with OSs for a while will understand they all
have their benefits. As a web app developer, I run Arch Linux w Gnome Shell
3.10 on my personal computer and my company provides me with an iMac at work.

For an experienced user, Mac OS is a unix prison. All the cool tinkering and
customizations I love about my linux build are usually locked down in a Mac.

When it comes to family members and non-tech people who ask for my
recommendation on products though, I usually push them towards Apple. Apple
products are essentially tech-training wheels.

------
baggachipz
I hope to hell that this person's first language isn't English.

------
freehunter
I don't feel like reading through four pages (yeah, I'm lazy), but I'll take a
guess as to what the rest of the article talks about.

1) OSX doesn't change significantly. People ranted about OSX for _years_ ,
until one day they kinda stopped. Because OSX was new and fresh, right up
until the point when it became the same thing that it's been for 13 years.

2) More people use Windows so more people are talking about Windows.

3) Therefore, OSX is better because [insert reason].

~~~
elohesra
First point was correct, other two weren't. It was basically a jab at how
terrible the Windows 8 UI overhaul was, rather than a boast about how great
the Mac UI is.

EDIT: Incidentally, the Windows 8 UI overhaul _was_ terrible. _Really
terrible_. I mean, that does need to be pointed out. Apple got a lot of stick
for some slight changes to the way their icons appear on the newer version of
the iPhone (forgive me, I'm not an Apple user so I can't comment, I just know
the word 'skeumorphism' was thrown around with various levels of anger), but
Microsoft seemed to get a much quieter and meeker acceptance of their terrible
UI overhual. Yes, there were articles at the time saying "what is Microsoft
thinking?", but it seemed -- at least to me -- to just be wearily accepted
that Microsoft had dramatically changed their UI so that it was unusable for
anyone coming from a previous version of their OS.

I'm not really sure why there wasn't more consumer outrage about Windows 8.
Every Windows 8 user I speak to hates its UI, but they just seem to hate it
and get on with it. Maybe it's because Windows users are generally less
excited by their OS than Mac users? I've never really known a Windows user to
speak at any great length, positively or negatively, about their OS.

~~~
Mikeb85
> Incidentally, the Windows 8 UI overhaul was terrible. Really terrible.

To be honest, I actually like it. Not enough to use Windows over Linux, but
the Metro UI is really cool. Has search functionality, and every app is
essentially its own self-updating widget. Very cool.

------
alisnic
You've never been on apple forums, don't you?

------
nswanberg
I expected this thread to have more debate. I'm hardly the first person to
point out that the OS is increasingly irrelevant, but I think this thread adds
evidence for that theory.

