
Show HN: Crowd&sup2; - A viral marketing campaign creator I wrote in 72 hours - fitztrev
http://crowdsquared.com/
======
zobzu
here's the issue: to checkout crowd2 you need to share it on your social
network. unless you have a dummy social network that you use for SPAM, you're
going to share it to your friends.

but hey, I don't know if I wanna share it yet. i wanna test it first. And,
crowd2 is share first, test second. And that's just wrong.

It's easy to make the parallel to another form of spam, as you'd have to have
a spam account to view it, as stated in my first paragraph.

~~~
nhangen
This sounds remarkably similar to the Imview story, which Eric Ries shared in
the opening chapters of his book. It's the same way I felt after viewing what
looks to be a neat product, but something I want to play with before
implementing.

Edit: I'm not sure why I was downvoted, but the point was that after Imview
received this feedback from their demo set, they implemented a way for people
to play before sharing, which later led to their success. Just food for
thought.

~~~
dwynings
The passage about IMVU from Ries' book, The Lean Startup:

"She downloads the product, and then we say 'Okay, invite one of your friends
to chat.' And she says, 'No way!' We say, 'Why not?' And she says, 'Well, I
don't know if this thing is cool yet. You want me to risk inviting one of my
friends? What are they going to think of me? If it sucks, they're going to
think I suck, right?' And we say, 'No, no it's going to be so much fun once
you get the person in there; it's a social product.' She looks at us, her face
filled with doubt; you can see that this is a deal breaker."

~~~
nhangen
Thanks for posting that, and correcting me on the name. I knew it didn't look
right.

------
buzzedword
Hey, I work on several of the networks you're promoting this service on. The
implementation of crowd2 is definitely spammy, although I'm sure you've had
the best intention at heart.

For points of reference, this violates Facebook's terms of service, Twitter's,
and several of Google's, though not directly mentioned for Google+ I'd still
err on the side of caution.

One of the things you can do to be more compliant is to offer an "opt out"
option, or an alternative method (like a unique URL) that doesn't directly
involve the social networks sharing plugins but still provide an effective
gate. Just be aware that this will cause issues with at least three of these
services. Can't speak for LinkedIn, but I'd assume it's probably the same
deal.

~~~
fitztrev
Thank you for the information. Because of this, and others', comments, I added
an opt-out button. While the customer can still share, they have the clear
option that they can download the offer without having to do so.

------
grk
I wouldn't like to be on the receiving end of this. I want to see the content
first, then maybe share with my network. Putting a "sharewall" like this will
put a lot of people off.

~~~
encoderer
I consult a niche daily deal site that implemented something similar.

In that case, it had a standard "email subscribe" nag screen (think Groupon or
Living Social). There was a "No Thanks" link at the bottom. Of course most
people clicked that.

We decided to give them a Like button option, too. We made the lightbox modal,
and required that they either "Like" or fill-in their email address.

An email address would suppress the nag screen forever (cookie based version
of 'forever', of course). A Like would suppress it for, I think, 1 week.

After a week, they'd have the same screen, but then a Tweet button.

We used the AddThis API, made it easy, we attached an OnSuccess callback to
the LikeButton.

We ran 2 tests, twice. The first split the old version to the new version with
the Share option. We found the Share option decreased subscribers, increased
Likes, and decreased "No Thanks" clicks.

Then we ran a test between that Share version, and a version where we
eliminated the "No Thanks" link. It increased both subscriptions AND like's
significantly. Numbers are to this day somewhere like ~10% increase in
subscriptions, and a substantial increase in likes. Sales were not immediately
impacted -- and they're pretty confident in increased sales due to the
increased value of their list and fan page.

We did end up doing one more tweak -- I suppose we added a door to the Share
Wall. We added a 25 second SetTimeout that fades-in the "No Thanks" link. If
they're in the middle of typing their email address or signing-into facebook
or whatever, the set-timeout just resets itself. We don't want to cannibalize
that social activity if they're in the middle of it. But there was just worry
about AddThis or the Like button not working properly, etc. We wanted to give
them another way at the content.

~~~
petenixey
These are pretty interesting figures. If I've understood what you wrote
correctly your conclusion would be that the screens that we love to hate
really do work. Do you have any thoughts on situations that are particularly
suited to such an ultimatum approach?

~~~
encoderer
I don't think I'm enough of an expert in the technique to give that kind of
guidance.

If somebody that was paying me asked that question, I'd try to figure out
which of these "social cues" would work best for a sites demographic/customer
base.

Then, define test cases. Think them through. Make them meaningful because if
your site isn't VERY popular, you have to run these tests for a while to
gather statistically meaningful data.

Then, TEST the heck out of these implementations. Use a service like
BrowserShots. Make sure that whatever social mixins you've created work
flawlessly. This will take more hardening than I'd usually do, past what I'd
normally call "production ready." Remember, if there's a bug here, your site
is just down for that user.

Finally, just test, test, test. And only trust the data.

------
nicpottier
Nice concept. If it doesn't work out maybe you should start a demo video
service of some kind. Totally impressed that you could put that video together
so quick, looks really nice.

~~~
fitztrev
Thank you. Fortunately, I really enjoy video production so it was a lot of fun
to work on.

~~~
sbochins
How much of the 72 hours was spent on the video? For someone like me without
any animation/video editing experience, it would probably take up most of it.

------
fitztrev
For those of you interested, here are all of the tools and resources I used to
produce the demo video.

Various stock illustrations, Keynote, GarageBand with a blanket over my head
to reduce the echo, Screenr.com (free screencasting and they give you the raw
mp4 at the end), iMovie (to import the mp4 and add the audio track), and
VidYard (for video hosting and analytics)

I suggest checking out the Mixergy interview with Miguel Hernandez of Grumo
Media. He has some great tips of how to make a good demo video. His website
also has some great inspiration.

~~~
DanielRibeiro
Direct link to the Mixergy interview: [http://grumomedia.com/how-to-create-
videos-that-get-you-cust...](http://grumomedia.com/how-to-create-videos-that-
get-you-customers-mixergy-interview-with-miguel-hernandez-of-grumo-media/)

------
TruffleLabs
Only a bit of a nudge here: viral marketing, in many many many cases is an
accident. It is hard to plan, even harder to predict. We all wish for it but
...

It's great to have tools to help but tools by themselves will not make
anything go viral. Most of the viral things people remember are viral because
the content was great (or so stupid it was great;), not because of the tool
that was used to share it. Yes, YouTube, as a tool, makes things easy to go
"viral". But it was the video that made it worth sharing, not because it was
on YouTube.

Also, as a marketing activity, going viral may not really be in your best
interest. Viral marketing is a tactic/strategy that needs to fit your
marketing plan. Just because you think you can go viral doesn't mean you
should.

Lastly, the model expressed in the demo video implies sharing requires I share
it before I get it... Why would I share something with my friends before
seeing if what Bob has to offer is any good?

------
illdave
Nice concept - it looks pretty similar to Paywithatweet.com which (I've heard)
does actually get people tweeting about the product.

The drawback with these sorts of concepts is that it means the product is
shared _before_ people actually use it, which makes the endorsement seem a bit
forced. Having said that, people do use it to get access so maybe that doesn't
put many people off.

The design looks great by the way, I didn't notice it was Bootstrap until
jaryd mentioned it.

~~~
fitztrev
Thank you. The concept is similar. I did not like the fact that customers
would have to authorize the app to post to their Twitter or Facebook accounts
in order to post the status update. Instead, I just use the Like boxes from
each of the networks. I look at it as a less-intrusive approach. And, if they
decide the offer wasn't good enough or they didn't like it, they could remove
the post. But I understand your point. I'm just as curious to see what the
user behavior is.

This was my first project with Bootstrap and it did not disappoint.

------
anujkk
Isn't it something like <http://www.paywithatweet.com> but also includes FB,
Google+ and linkedin?

For those who are concerned about seeing the content first before sharing it,
it can be a nice idea to use it with a free online version. E.g., few days
back I downloaded pdf version of "Noobs guide to online marketing"
([http://www.seomoz.org/blog/the-noob-guide-to-online-
marketin...](http://www.seomoz.org/blog/the-noob-guide-to-online-marketing-
with-giant-infographic-11928\)and) it asked me to pay with a tweet about the
ebook.

------
paisible
Nicely executed, the video is well done. Will be interesting to see if real-
life examples of viral content come out of this kid of model. IMHO, users need
to choose to share content themselves in order to go viral : it's not the
link-posting (which is the basis of all twitter spam) that produces the
virality, but the passion and wording of the people describing the content
AFTER they've seen it that gets their friends to check it out. Unrelated
question : how does an article with 0 comments get to the top of HN ? :) Would
love insight into the HN algorithm on this one.

~~~
marcamillion
Where did you get the video done? Especially in 72 hours!

~~~
fitztrev
Fortunately, this wasn't the first product demo I made :).

Check out the Mixergy interview with Miguel Hernandez of Grumo Media. He talks
about some great tricks you can use to make simple product demo videos.

Basically, it's really good stock illustrations + some good Keynote work + a
blanket over your head to cut out the echo as you record the voiceover on your
computer. I actually really enjoy making them.

~~~
marcamillion
It's behind a paywall :(

Thanks for the heads-up though.

~~~
grumo
The full interview can be seen on the Grumo website too
[http://grumomedia.com/how-to-create-videos-that-get-you-
cust...](http://grumomedia.com/how-to-create-videos-that-get-you-customers-
mixergy-interview-with-miguel-hernandez-of-grumo-media/)

------
danielh
That's a great looking product for such a short time. I really like the looks
of the video, but for me it was a bit light on information. You are explaining
how the viral effect works, but I also want to know how the campaign creator
works. Will I get a code snippet I have to integrate into my page? Do I have
to host anything myself? It looks like the only way to find out is to create a
campaign.

Out of curiosity, did you create this in 72 hours straight, i.e. a long
weekend, or stretched out over several evenings?

~~~
fitztrev
Thanks. I'll probably make some updates to the video and explain some things
differently. I'm going to get somebody to do the voiceover next time, too. I
think that will help with the quality.

Thursday early morning I started programming. Working prototype by Thursday
afternoon. Spent then next couple days polishing it. Finished it Saturday
night. Then I just spent Sunday doing design, copywriting, and video
production.

~~~
danielh
I suggest that you mention that adding the campaign button to the page is only
a matter of adding the generated HTML snippet, something like "it's as simple
as embedding a YouTube video". Maybe you can also create a separate step-by-
step video that shows the creation of a campaign and integration into e.g. a
Wordpress post.

------
iamdave
Great concept, nice delivery too! I hope this works out, if you have any case
studies perhaps from your test clients, I'd love to read them and maybe show
this to my marketing director.

Though I have one pause: "Viral". Has use of the word viral essentially
trumped "social"? I don't mean to knock the work you've done here, because
you've put work into it and I'd like to use it myself. I just want to know why
the term viral has been slapped on your product, it's not viral because you
say it is ([http://johngushue.typepad.com/blog/2010/05/its-not-viral-
jus...](http://johngushue.typepad.com/blog/2010/05/its-not-viral-just-because-
you-say-it-is-.html)). Keep this motto in mind: "Under promise, over deliver".
If someone signs up for this expecting instant viral success, and fails, that
hurts your brand, no?

Good luck, I've bookmarked this :)

------
riffraff
simple and cleanly executed, though I believe the G+ integration may be
slightly buggy[0].

Also, the FAQ page has the sentence "Can I have use my Facebook fan page...".
I am no native speaker but the have-use seems an error.

[0] on chrome 14, OSX10.6 I did +1, and saw a form blinking away, and the "+1"
soes not seem reported in my G+ account

~~~
fitztrev
Ahh, thanks for both reports. The G+ button seemed to be the most finicky
about how things worked. I'll get both of those items updated, though. Thanks
again.

------
encoderer
Nice use of Bootstrap. I'm using it right now on a project, with LESS and
Batman.js. Loving it.

------
iantimothy
I love the idea. Just some thoughts. 1\. What if the URL I want people to like
is not Open Graph ready. Then what's shared looks ugly on the news feed. I
know this is supposed to be my job to take care of, but when creating a
campaign, there was no reminder about Open Graph and the possibility the story
on the news feed will look ugly. 2\. Folks could just email the link to their
friends after they obtained it by liking the link. And, what's stopping them
from quickly removing the like from their profile?

------
EponymousCoward
Nice accomplishment but I have to say that the idea of the product is off-
putting. Still I guess it's up to people if they want to advertise this way.

I'm not convinced that this approach will always yield a higher viral
coefficient than not forcing sharing in order to gain access. The interesting
thing is you could actually run A/B tests on this.

~~~
fitztrev
I'm looking forward to running lots of different A/B tests. I can change the
"Download for Free" button, change the copy on the Share popup, and change how
people interact with the share buttons. I definitely want to make sure I
optimize the site, not just for me, but for the people who are using it to
distribute their content. The purpose is to get them a larger distribution
network so I'll try any changes that accomplish that.

------
powertower
I like the name... Can you go into the details of how you came to it and the
other alternatives?

~~~
fitztrev
The name was the result of a 5 hour long brainstorm with a friend. It was
difficult to come up with one that somewhat made sense and was available. I
have about 3 pages of scribbled out words and ideas. He proposed the original
idea of "shared squared". All variances of that were taken, but I liked the
concept of using "squared" and being able to draw a graph with "y = name^2" on
it. Crowdsquared.com was available so I went with that.

------
bogeyball
Love the execution, but I'm also concerned about the share-first aspect. Maybe
you could give content creators a way to let the audience preview the content
before they share. Obviously this wouldn't apply to all content, but it might
be a good feature.

------
jperezcu
The headline+video look great. I'm curious, though: why is the "Download for
Free" button bigger and brighter than the "Create a Campaign" button (which is
clearly more important)? And why does it say "Live Demo" if it's just a
downloadable PDF?

~~~
fitztrev
The "demo" is the process that you go through to _get_ the PDF. Maybe I should
make that more clear. It's just a sample of how the functionality would work
on your site if you offered an ebook.

The size/styling of the "Download for Free" button is just something I didn't
give much thought to. I used a button generator and that's what it output.
Looking at it again, it could certainly be smaller. Especially when sitting so
close to my main CTA of "Create a Campaign."

------
jaryd
twitter bootstrap framework?

~~~
fitztrev
Indeed :) It's what made it all possible. I wouldn't have done it if I had to
style all the forms and layouts from scratch.

~~~
jaryd
That's awesome :) so cool that open source -design- benefits programmers too!

------
marcamillion
This is pretty awesome, it's actually something I had an idea for a while
back. My spin was a tad different.

If you are interested, I can email you my thoughts and you can decide to
integrate them if you want.

~~~
fitztrev
Yes, absolutely. I'd be very interested in hearing about it. Hit me up and I
can share my roadmap of some things I may add.

------
niklas_a
I don't think this is a viral tool. A viral marketing campaign is made of
users sharing something because they think it is cool, not because they have
to share the product to use it.

------
Tomer
may i ask where do you get the resources like buttons/templates, which
language framework tools do you use? what made you able to create such an app
in such a short time? thanks

~~~
fitztrev
The template is the Bootstrap template from Twitter. I mentioned in another
comment that I would _not_ have even started this project if it weren't for
that. It made development so much easier.

It's built in PHP using a custom framework that I've developed over the years
for fast development.

------
trusko
I've seen similar product and heard that it was very successful -
<http://gorecommend.net/>. Good luck.

------
frankdenbow
Sounds similar to LaunchRock. How are you different?

~~~
rokhayakebe
Pre-Launch vs. Post-Launch

------
swalkergibson
Looks great! One thing, Firefox 3.6 on Ubuntu 9.10 the "Download for Free"
button has an outline, I presume that was not intended :)

~~~
fitztrev
Ah, yes. Cross-browser testing is one thing I was not able to do yet. If
anybody is using IE, I apologize. Although the Bootstrap framework should do
alright rendering in IE.

~~~
rokhayakebe
<https://browserlab.adobe.com/en-us/index.html>

------
abava
rather than sharing, we've used customized check-ins:
<http://qrpon.linkstore.ru> But yes, I also think "content" should be
"visible" before sharing. That is why we go to "check-ins". It is simply more
honestly - "I am here", nothing more

------
dolphenstein
This looks great! I'm currently building my own side project and think I'll
incorporate this into it.

------
option1138
Interesting service and a nice UI. I just gave it a shot. Interested to see
how well it works!

------
lotnok
Cool. May I know what framework / API you use for credit card payment ?

~~~
fitztrev
Stripe.

------
skeptical
You might have done this with good intentions in mind, but I don't think this
is a good idea. A pyramid scheme is NOT something positive. Only less than
half the people that get informed about some product will actually have access
to it if this method is used to pass the word. That's not a good strategy, and
will push reasonable people off. You know, those who understand pyramid
schemes. If I get informed about something that tells me that I have to share
it with three more people (or accomplish any kind of assignment for that
matter) in order to actually access it, I will immediately press ctrl+w and
forever forget about it.

