

Greenwald: Snowden docs contain NSA 'blueprint' - daegloe
http://news.yahoo.com/greenwald-snowden-docs-contain-nsa-blueprint-235836523.html

======
SimHacker
What If Snowden Was on Board the Bolivian President's Jet?

[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/violeta-ayala/what-if-
snowden-...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/violeta-ayala/what-if-snowden-was-
on-board_b_3551594.html)

"I would like people to know that today the U.S. hosts some of Bolivia's
largest criminals. One such person is the former president, Gonzalo Sanchez de
Lozada, and two of his ministers who are wanted in Bolivia, not for
information leaks, but to face charges for the killing of 60 people who were
protesting against his government's policies to sell Bolivia's resources to
U.S. corporations. Sanchez de Lozada escaped Bolivia in a jet in 2003 and to
this day the U.S. refuses to accept Bolivia's extradition request for him."

Glenn Greenwald covered this almost a year ago:

America's refusal to extradite Bolivia's ex-president to face genocide
charges: Obama justice officials have all but granted asylum to Sánchez de
Lozada – a puppet who payrolled key Democratic advisers

[http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/09/america-...](http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/09/america-
refusal-extradite-bolivia)

How prescient of Greenwald: "Relatedly, we find the prevailing sentiment that
asylum is something that is only to be granted by the US and its western
allies against unfriendly governments. The notion that one may need asylum
from the US or the west – or that small Latin American countries unfavorable
to the US can grant it rather than have it granted against them – is offensive
and perverse to all good and decent western citizens, who know that political
persecution is something that happens only far away from them." -Glenn
Greenwald, 9 September 2012.

~~~
igravious
<rant> It is precisely this hypocrisy that has rankled more and more as the
years roll by. Sure other countries do horrible stuff but nobody else claims
to be such a bastion of freedom and democracy. As one learns about the sordid
interventionist past of the USA one then realizes that the superficial
rhetoric is at variance with past actions.

These double standards reek of the colonial mindset that is meant to be well
behind us. I follow a couple of blogs and it is this they return to time and
again. The double standards. The hypocrisy. Imagine if the USA didn't make
such claims then when the whole NSA/Snowden thing broke people would just say,
"oh well, that's just par for course then".

So can we just drop the whole freedom and democracy rhetoric now? Can we drop
the pretense? If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and all that.
Measure for measure the USA is one of the more hostile and anti-democratic
regimes globally. </rant>

Also, can I have my privacy back please?

~~~
Amadou
If it weren't for the rhetoric, guys like Snowden would never have been
indoctrinated with the ideas of freedom and democracy, the very ideas that
caused him to act. So no, I do not want to drop the rhetoric.

------
infinity0
In the light of the Reuters misquoting and subsequent reply by Greenwald
yesterday (see
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6040182](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6040182)),
I would be extremely extremely skeptical about any secondary interpretations
of Glen Greenwald's own words. It seriously sounds more like the writer of
this article has nothing better to do than grossly extrapolate a few words
into a whole fucking fantasy conjecture. I mean, come on, the ENTIRE article
consists of editorialising about someone else's own words, and padding it out
with old facts.

------
gscott
The problem with this is upping the ante too much. The Government would prefer
the secrets spilled to someone goading over them with it. The Government
certainly would prefer this in the news for a year rather then for 40 years...
Putin will use further disclosures as an excuse to hand him over expect not
more then 30 days more.

------
quaunaut
Honest question, is anyone else completely past the point of caring until he
actually shows more? (Please read to the end.) So far all we've gotten is some
powerpoint slides, claims that they have other evidence, and a lot of
interviews.

I've seen people in various communities saying, "Why is the media focusing on
Edward Snowden, instead of the breach of civil liberties", but frankly, I
wouldn't know how to cover this. He hasn't presented any concrete evidence,
just the same powerpoint slides we saw a month ago. He claims he has some, but
we're not seeing anything.

I'm not saying he's lying, or that this isn't a big deal- it is. I have a huge
problem with the government ignoring the rule of law, especially in regards to
treating digital content like it isn't supported by the 4th Amendment. I also
don't like the idea of us treating our allies' citizens like they don't
matter- legally speaking they don't, but morally speaking I'd rather we did
better.

But at this point, how do you continue to cover a story when the key source of
the story is taking it's incredibly sweet time in giving us anything more than
"No really, guys, you've gotta believe me, you should be really mad!"

~~~
dlss
I honestly can't tell if you're trolling.

You're asking for evidence... but are apparently not happy with first hand
accounts, and classified documents.

The authenticity has been confirmed -- take for example the senate hearings
where the Snowden revealed programs are discussed... or the US government
charging him with releasing classified documents (the ones he gave us).

You "have a huge problem with the government ignoring the rule of law,
especially in regards to treating digital content like it isn't supported by
the 4th Amendment" but don't seem to understand how you came to know about
these violations of the 4th.

Are you trolling us? I'm asking because I honestly don't know.

What more evidence are you waiting for? Or you just don't want to get mad
until you know everything? /me is so confused right now

~~~
ianhawes
No, he's not trolling. Nor is he a government plant or right-wing nutjob. He's
just someone posting on HN with a legitimate viewpoint not shared by the
majority of people here. Regardless, it is a valid point and shouldn't be
dismissed so readily.

No one is doubting the authenticity of the Prism Powerpoint, however only a
handful of slides have been released. And as shocking as first hand accounts
are, without any evidence to support them, it's extremely hard to verify or
trust.

~~~
grey-area
_No one is doubting the authenticity of the Prism Powerpoint, however only a
handful of slides have been released._

There are clearly more than a few powerpoint slides, one of the very first
stories was a warrant for Verizon, and many different docs have been released,
FISA court documents, bulk warrants, overviews of several programs from
several internal presentations, not just one (what you dismiss as 'powerpoint
slides'), NSA inspector general report, GCHQ docs on bugging the G20, GCHQ
docs on Tempora etc. What a bizarre assertion. The first hand accounts have
been backed up by ex-NSA workers including Binney, Drake and others. How much
more evidence do you need before you'd like to debate the real issues instead
of talking about how trustworthy Greenwald is?

I'm genuinely curious which news sources you've been using, as apparently you
have been completely mislead.

------
beedogs
So much for the bogus mainstream press narrative about Snowden being a "low
level" NSA operative.

~~~
ianhawes
Actually I don't think you can prove he was higher ranking one way or another.
It would appear, based on the wide variety of documents he stole, that they
were in fact hacked – with Snowden abusing his privileges on NSA computers. No
single person would have access to that much compartmentalized information
without being at NSA HQ.

------
eli
This just seems incredibly reckless and selfish. The odds of these documents,
which everyone appears to agree will harm legitimate US interests, being
accidentally released seems dangerously high. I really hope his Dead Man
Switch encryption system is better than the one that allowed wikileaks to
accidentally leak unredacted and unvetted cables.

~~~
shabble
What actions do you think you would take if you were in his situation that
would be less reckless or selfish?

~~~
eli
I honestly don't know, but I don't think that's a very good excuse.

I don't think I'd ever risk stealing documents that could genuinely bring harm
to America.

I hope for everyone's sake that this is either a bluff or a misquote.

------
shin_lao
Right. Because one "blueprint" can defeat a multi-billion dollar security
agency. I call this bullshit.

~~~
lukifer
This sounds to me like journalistic license from Greenwald, who probably does
not fully understand the technology involved. I'm guessing it's a little more
nuanced: one could learn about known exploits and compromised services to stay
on "safe" communication methods, or use some of the exploits themselves.

------
blhack
Duplicate seems a little dubious here... Unless there is some insane never
before published vuln in some core routing protocol or the DNS that seems a
bit misstated.

...I hope.

------
timbrooke
Open-source that stuff already!

