
Greenland and Antarctica ice loss accelerating - pseudolus
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-51846468
======
anoplus
I think the combination of climate change news and Coronavirus news
demonstrate so well how poorly humans respond to non-immediate versus
immediate threats. Even when the non-immediate threat is potentially huge.

~~~
rapnie
While I agree with you, there is also the thing that the powers-that-be are
not all that threatened by climate change.

~~~
qayxc
Spot on!

I'd even go as far as to argue that it's even worse.

[WARNING! Unpopular opinion ahead]

Even those who realise the dangers of climate change and the destruction of
ecosystems and biodiversity fall victim to cults of personality and blind
(almost Victorian era-) faith in technology.

Instead of reducing consumption and dialling back on wasting valuable
resources, they honestly think that driving a luxury sedan will safe the world
as long as it's powered by batteries... Always reminds me of this:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnFAAdOBB1c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnFAAdOBB1c)

------
Gravityloss
This is very conservative.

If you really want to look at the risks, see Eric Rignot
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWlsizBRG5w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWlsizBRG5w)

Multi-meter rise by 2100 is possible. Glacier melting could be very nonlinear.

------
esarbe
I simply fail to understand how, despite the rising mountain of evidence, some
people still are able to deny the reality of the climate crisis we're facing.

Even if you have ideological or economical reasons for wanting to believe the
climate crisis to be a hoax - at one point or another the drive for self-
preservation simply has to kick in, doesn't it?

Ever and ever again when I see some new dire study about how our predatory
exploitation of our ecological support system is degrading its capability to
actually support us, I think to myself: "This is it. Now they just have to
finally start supporting measures to stop killing ourselves." But I always get
disappointed - there are still way too many people that absolutely fail to
grasp how terminal a situation we're rushing into.

The human capability for self-deception is truly amazing.

~~~
trentnix
It's really pretty simple - the prognosticators of doom have a very poor track
record. I posted this elsewhere in the thread, so apologize for the spam for
any readers who saw it twice:

[https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-failed-eco-
pocalyp...](https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-failed-eco-pocalyptic-
predictions)

Personally, I don't believe climate change is a hoax. There's ample evidence
indicating climate change is real. But I am certainly convinced climate
_crisis_ is mostly nonsense. And I believe most "solutions" proposed are an
antithesis to individual liberty.

And thus, statements like this one you made, from my point-of-view, are mostly
hysterical:

 _Ever and ever again when I see some new dire study about how our predatory
exploitation of our ecological support system is degrading its capability to
actually support us, I think to myself: "This is it. Now they just have to
finally start supporting measures to stop killing ourselves." But I always get
disappointed - there are still way too many people that absolutely fail to
grasp how terminal a situation we're rushing into._

~~~
ianleeclark
> And I believe most "solutions" proposed are an antithesis to individual
> liberty.

I think this is the most telling answer any of us, who stand mouth agape at
the inaction, will ever receive: rather than join together in any semblance of
community to overcome a common problem, we have to walk headfirst into
knowable horrors, so that some can continue with their myth of individual
liberty.

All I can think of is the past few weeks where posters here on HN quickly
wrote off any mention of covid-19 being anything worse than the common flu
that no one ought to worry too much about it.

~~~
miscPerson
Authoritarian/collectivist governments have killed around 100M people in the
past century; a number comparable to the predictions of climate crises over
the next century.

There’s a reason people insist on societies based around individual liberty
and citizen empowerment — they work! They’re what has led to the greatest
increase in human well-being the world has ever seen.

Suggesting authoritarianism in response to climate change is simply creating a
second problem — and one that’s unlikely to solve the first.

So yes, people resist you trying a repeatedly failed idea _again_ , just so
you can be seen to be doing something.

~~~
ianleeclark
I don't know why people see the only way to collective struggle being through
an authoritarian battering ram. I think this says far more about you than you
realize: the only way in which you could possibly imagine yourself working
with another person is at the barrel of a gun.

~~~
trentnix
And your plans for those who won't work with you (for whatever reason) to
address the _collective struggle_ are...?

~~~
ianleeclark
I'm in favor of any solution that even so much as attempts to price-in
externalities into the market. Examples are carbon taxes and tariffs.

Now what's your solution that doesn't tread on my individual liberty?

------
fnsa
Good news keeps on coming. Yikes.

------
fasicle
Will be interesting to see if Coronavirus helps at all with climate change.

I assume there will be a lot less flights, cars on the road etc. when cities
start getting shut down.

~~~
kohanz
I doubt it. If and when the virus passes, people will revert to their previous
patterns. This is seen as a temporary inconvenience by the general population.
Why change their behaviour moving forward?

~~~
Swenrekcah
Well, if the world moves to a global recession for some period, then one would
expect reusing and recycling to increase, and useless crap production and
recreational travel to decrease. That could reduce emissions for a period of
time.

It's not something to be gleeful about, but could be a silver lining in case
of a recession.

~~~
Mediterraneo10
The 2008 crisis saw no significant decline in human CO2 emissions. A global
recession would alter some aspects of consumer spending, but all in all I
would expect CO2 output to remain problematic.

------
xbmcuser
With Siberia melting viruses from before the ice age will start getting out.
Pandemics might become the new normal every few years in the future.

------
drenginian
That’s going to be the flood that follows fire, disease and presumably famine
when crops start failing.

Thumbs up for the 21st century what a corker.

~~~
esarbe
Why the downvotes? Seems like the appropriate sentiment for these kinds of
news. No need to sugarcoat it.

~~~
esarbe
Yeah, so...

Why the downvotes?

------
lazyjones
Meanwhile, the ice in the arctic is increasing against all doomer predictions.

[https://i1.wp.com/ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/plots/icecover/osisaf_...](https://i1.wp.com/ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/plots/icecover/osisaf_nh_iceextent_daily_5years_en.png)

~~~
ourlordcaffeine
In winter, water freezes. Well done! Fantastic observation!

~~~
lazyjones
The plot lines cover the entire year and YoY there is more ice than in the
past couple of years.

~~~
esarbe
You notice that in the graph you provided the link for, the lines for 2016,
2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020 are way below the mean value of 1981 to 2000?

For the years from 2016 to 2020 there's an about sigma 4 deviation to the mean
of 1981 to 2000 Do you know how unlikely this makes this curves to just be
random variation?

There's an about 11% degradation in surface area, in just about 20 years.

------
trentnix
_" If that holds true it would put 400 million people at risk of annual
coastal flooding by 2100," said Prof Shepherd._

At least the prognosticators are getting smart enough to make sure their
predictions can't be assessed until after they're gone. Means no egg on your
face like all the doomsayers of times past...

[https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-failed-eco-
pocalyp...](https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-failed-eco-pocalyptic-
predictions)

And the lede, "give more money to programs I think are important", is buried:

 _His particular concern is to see successors to the European Space Agency 's
CryoSat-2 satellite and the American space agency's IceSat-2 platform.

These models observe more of the ice sheets than other satellites because they
fly orbits that go very close to the north and south poles.

"I fear we will soon be back to the situation of the early 2000s when we had
to make do with missions that were not really designed to look at polar
regions. We'll be doing our best despite the absence of the data we really
require - unfortunately. But we've been there before."_

 __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __

My reflexive skepticism at the climate panic du jour aside, if you 're
convinced disaster is certain if we don't _do something_ and if that
_something_ necessarily reduces the quality of life of everyone around you,
you will fail. I, and _billions_ of others, will refuse to go along.

All reasonable, sensible, attainable solutions are technological.

~~~
esarbe
You know who's not propagating climate crisis hysteria just to secure a
lifetime paycheck? The Exxon climate scientists of the 1970s.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil_climate_change_cont...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil_climate_change_controversy)

> In July 1977, a senior scientist of Exxon James Black reported to company's
> executives that there was a general scientific agreement at that time that
> the burning of fossil fuels was the most likely manner in which mankind was
> influencing global climate change

Take it from the horse's mouth; these guys had no reason to propagate some
kind of hoax, quite the opposite. We've known that since the 1970s that
climate change is the likely outcome.

And you know what; climate change has arrived and - surprise! - it's a climate
crisis!

According to IPCC 2018, we're CURRENTLY between +0.75 and +1.25°C, with the
very real possibility of reaching +2°C by the 2040. These are undeniable
facts.

So, the people that have been warning us for 50 years were .. actually
correct. Who would have thought that science could work!

~~~
trentnix
_So, the people that have been warning us for 50 years were .. actually
correct._

No, they weren't. We didn't end up in a mini ice-age. The glaciers in Glacier
National Park did not disappear. The polar ice caps did not melt. Widespread
famine did not occur. Widespread destruction did not occur.

Instead, humanity has experience it's greatest period of prosperity in the
same period prophets like Ehrlich assured us of our impending doom.

Doom is _always_ right around the corner.

 _Who would have thought that science could work!_

Science always works. But scientists get things wrong frequently.

~~~
esarbe
Let's try to pick some of your claims.

Let's start with Global Cooling. Although popularized by the media, this
theory was very fringe and not accepted scientific consensus.
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling))

The glaciers in Glacier National Park; they are melting. And melting fast
([https://www.nps.gov/glac/learn/nature/climate-
change.htm](https://www.nps.gov/glac/learn/nature/climate-change.htm))

The polar ice caps are melting. We've had a 11% reduction in are in about 20
years.
([https://i1.wp.com/ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/plots/icecover/osisaf_...](https://i1.wp.com/ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/plots/icecover/osisaf_nh_iceextent_daily_5years_en.png))

If we continue like that, widespread famine and destruction are just around
the corner. We're currently running into that, head first, full speed ahead.

