
Snap lays off two dozen employees - minimaxir
https://cheddar.com/videos/exclusive-snap-lays-off-two-dozen-employees
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daheza
Doesn't seem that large a number. According to Wikipedia they employ 1,859.

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untog
No, but it is interesting that the layoffs are concentrated in the "content"
division. Maybe a sign of where the company wants to head (or not head) next.

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paul7986
Filters and Bitmoji nonsense fun!

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dvt
Snap still hasn't found its place. Although Spiegel is, in many ways, in an
enviable position (extremely wealthy in his 20s), he also isn't. Facebook
basically decimated Snapchat stories, and Snapchat is trying to become my
generation (and the next's) Us Weekly. I think most people bet on them as a
social media and technology company, not a tabloid rag.

But user acquisition is down, the Spectacles were a flop, and their new re-
design has been met with a resounding "meh." I'm curious what their next move
will be. These layoffs might be a sign of things to come.

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KyeRussell
In my (early 20s, fairly normal) circles Facebook Stories is seldom used, and
Snapchat is actively used. Just not the parts that Snap wants us to use (i.e.
anything besides the core product).

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dvt
Sorry, should've been clearer, I mean Instagram (FB owns it) -- most of my
friends (early-20s to early-30s) use Instagram. A minority use Snapchat.

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alonmower
Did anyone else find the coder vs engineer analogy strange? Especially given
that this was presumably sent out to the whole company.

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sidlls
I didn't. Coders are often mistaken for engineers and in the Bay Area
especially there is a strong emphasis on coding ability over engineering
ability. Coding and Engineering are different skills.

The memo is a bit too dismissive of coders: to me it makes them seem as though
they're inferior, less aggressive, or less able pseudo-engineers.

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taejavu
Can you expand more on what, in your opinion, is the difference between a
coder and an engineer?

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didibus
Even legally, there's a difference. For example, if I was only a coder or
programmer, I could not work in the US, as my work permit is ineligible to
those professions. You have to be an engineer instead, software or systems or
network or security engineer for example.

The difference is that a programmer is someone who knows how to program a
computer in one or more languages. An engineer find ways to apply mathematical
and computer science theory to real world problems. It knows how to navigate
the real world constraints of limited resources to provide optimal return. It
has a basic knowledge of ethics and takes it into account. It can lead and
direct teams of coders and help them more effectively solve a business's
problems. Its aware of existing technologies and can design ways to solve new
problems through architecting those technologies in new ways. Finally, an
engineer is a qualified professional in an engineering discipline, so it has
accredited paperwork.

But, its all mostly BS in that lots of people with programmer or coder titles
do all that, and lots of people with engineering titles don't. It was mostly
introduced so that software be taken more seriously.

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jjeaff
What is your source for this? As far as I know, there is no official
designation for "software engineer" in the US. Nor any official certifications
or accredited programs. Computer science is the degree programs most take.

As far as visas are concerned, what would the criteria be to verify a software
engineer instead of a programmer.

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didibus
My source was mostly my lawyer consultations. I tried to find online sources,
I think this link is good: [https://www.tnvisabulletin.com/nafta-tn-visa-
engineer](https://www.tnvisabulletin.com/nafta-tn-visa-engineer)

Under Nafta, programmer or coder is not an approved listed profession.
Engineer is. It does not list the sub-category of Engineer, so Software
Engineer is normally included. To qualify as an engineer you need to meet the
accredited requirements, which are either an engineering license, an
engineering degree or a minimum 3 year bachelor's degree. As stated in the
linked article, the INS is sometimes more strict, and only accepts licensed
engineers or engineering bachelors, even though that can be contested.

Now if you read this link: [https://www.tnvisabulletin.com/nafta-tn-
blog/2016/7/14/2016/...](https://www.tnvisabulletin.com/nafta-tn-
blog/2016/7/14/2016/tn-visa-approval-for-software-engineer-with-degree-in-
math)

You see it specifies that the USCBP considers a job role where the majority of
the work involves coding does not qualify as a software engineering role. That
would be a computer programmer role instead, which is not approved for TN work
permits.

If you look at OOH, they distinguish between computer programmer and software
developer. The latter role description is what Software Engineer role should
also be like, I couldn't find a source, and OOH doesn't list software
engineer, but it matches up with what I was told by lawyers.

[https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-
technology/...](https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-
technology/computer-programmers.htm)

[https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-
technology/...](https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-
technology/software-developers.htm)

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TheCoelacanth
If you look at the number of people employed in each of those job
classifications, Software Developers have 1.25 million and are expected to
increase by 300k in the next 10 years while Programmers have 295k and are
expected to decrease by 22k in the next 10 years. So "Programmers" is already
only 20% of the total and is expected to decrease to 15%.

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paxy
Interesting that around the same time both Facebook and Snapchat are turning
their focus away from sponsored content and focusing on friends.

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ponco
Perhaps it was the team that pushed out the latest UI update. Honestly, it is
so bad that nearly all my friends have stopped using it for stories.

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reaperducer
Oh, Snap!

(Somebody had to do it)

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tapatio
Stick a fork in them, they're done!

