
Microsoft uses malware tactics to foist Windows 10 on more PCs - avckp
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/gadgets-on-the-go/microsoft-uses-malware-tactics-to-foist-windows-10-on-more-pcs-20160524-gp355z.html
======
pygy_
My in-law's laptop "upgraded to Win 10 all by itself" last week (that's how
they described it), and I can only suppose that one of them closed the nagging
pop up, unknowingly triggering the update.

After rebooting, neither the keyboard nor the trackpad would work. I had a
spare USB keyboard (no mouse), and I managed to delete the faulty drivers,
which were replaced on reboot by valid ones (the bad drivers were reported as
'up to date', so updating wouldn't do it).

Disabling all the spyware features with only a keyboard during the post-
install setup wasn't fun. Thankfully, the device manager is still his old
Win95 self, and I could easily navigate through it even though I haven't owned
a Windows machine since XP.

I learned after the fact that refusing the User Agreement would revert to the
previous version of the OS. I wish I had known that before finalizing the
impromptu upgrade.

------
ensiferum
I'm just waiting for the day when Microsoft moves on to subscription based
service. Basically I'm assuming that they want their win10 user base high
enough and then one day they say "we changed our licensing policy to
subscription based" and then everyone has no choice but to pay $20 or whatever
every month or be locked out from their machines. There's probably some small
print in the win10 EULA that conveniently allows them to move onto this model
under the ruse of "rolling releases"

~~~
daveguy
I expect they won't do that until Win10 is an established rolling release OS.
I also expect they will wait until after Windows 7 is no longer supported
(2020) and Win10 has over 50% share. Also, I bet it will be rolled into
Office365 subscription. People who have Office365 get recommended and security
updates for Win10 for FREE! Such a good deal! You get office, and 1TB online
storage for just $10/month!

If they can convert 50% of Win10 users (.625/1.25 billion) to subscription
that's $6.25 billion / month or $75 billion / year. Their yearly revenue for
2015 was $93.6 billion. With a billion people (their stated goal for Win10) on
a subscription model for $12/mo that is +50% yearly revenue -- enormous growth
for such a large company. I do not doubt that is the end goal.

EDIT: "current count" of 1.25 billion windows machines was an estimate by
business insider from 2011.

~~~
cm2187
I understand the reason the upgrade is free is to rather move to an ad
supported service.

~~~
tehmaco
For now, yes. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a "Windows Premium Edition"
that's subscription based to remove the ads in the next few years. They can
test the water with that, then start adding exclusive features to the paid
version over time.

~~~
cm2187
I agree. But I would expect Windows Pro to be that edition. The "pro" doesn't
stand for much right now.

------
Yetanfou
I just restored one of my neighbour's computers to life after it 'suddenly
stopped working, it only shows a black screen with a mouse pointer'. The last
thing the thing - which runs Windows 7 - had done was try to install
KB3035583, the 'get Windows 10 now or die trying' version. It died.

After restoring Windows' messed-up intestines the machine booted up again. I'd
removed all traces of KB3035583 in the hope that this neighbour - a farmer's
wife in her 60s - would not be bothered again, nor tricked into 'upgrading'.
Being the wise person I am I decided to keep the machine in quarantine for
another day, just to make sure Microsoft would not come up with yet another
way to foist this miscarriage of an operating system onto hapless users'
machines. And, lo and behold, the next day I was greeted by yet another
'update', also summarily hidden and scrubbed, but still... I do these people a
favour in helping them with technical stuff, but I don't want to become a
full-time guardian. If this keeps up I'll just put some form of Linux on the
thing and be done with it, all she uses it for is some light web browsing and
mail-related stuff anyway.

To paraphrase a well-known quote, the harder Microsoft pushes, the more users
will slip through their fingers and move to better pasture. That they don't
realise this is something of a mystery to me.

~~~
x1798DE
> If this keeps up I'll just put some form of Linux on the thing and be done
> with it, all she uses it for is some light web browsing and mail-related
> stuff anyway.

Why wait?

------
mikestew
I'm seeing this story in several places, so I'm going to go with the
smoke==fire assessment, but can anyone confirm? I hate to pull the [citation
needed] card, but this sounds beneath even the Microsoft of the 90s. And if
it's true? OMG, today's "open source, and Linux, and ponies!" Microsoft is
demonstrating worse behavior than the "convicted abusive monopolist"
Microsoft, IMO.

~~~
plushpuffin
[https://support.microsoft.com/en-
us/kb/3095675](https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3095675)

This notification means your Windows 10 upgrade will occur at the time
indicated, unless you select either Upgrade now or “Click here to change
upgrade schedule or cancel scheduled upgrade”. If you click on OK or on the
red “X”, you’re all set for the upgrade and there is nothing further to do.

~~~
mikestew
Wow, from their very own docs, huh? I was never a huge fan of some of
Microsoft's patterns even when I worked there, but this is a new low in my
eyes.

~~~
trowftd
Asking users to actually read something and not just blindly dismiss it is a
new low?

~~~
plushpuffin
From the linked article:

If you're determined to avoid Windows 10 you've simply closed that pop-up by
clicking the little X in the top right corner, _by now it 's probably second
nature._ This week Microsoft took advantage of this by changing the pop-up so
that clicking the X to close it implies your consent to upgrade, tricking even
more people into installing Windows 10 against their wishes.

~~~
trowftd
I doubt it's the same pop-up. This one specifically states: 'Based on your
update settings you're scheduled to upgrade on ...'. Just closing the pop-up
wouldn't change this fact. Can't really empathise with people complaining
about this.

~~~
plushpuffin
It isn't the same popup, because Microsoft has continually changed it over the
past year. They have done everything they can to ignore and circumvent user
preferences during this whole process.

It started with OK and cancel, then changed to Upgrade Now and Upgrade Later,
with the close button being the only way to decline. Now it is being pushed as
an automatic upgrade with a deliberately small and unobtrusive cancel link
instead of a prominent button. Also, if you are away from your PC, it will
happen automatically.

Look at their own UI guidelines: [https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/windows/desktop/dn7...](https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/windows/desktop/dn742499\(v=vs.85\).aspx)

Dialog boxes always have a Close button.

Don't disable the Close button. Having a Close button helps users stay in
control by allowing them to close windows they don't want.

The Close button on the title bar should have the same effect as the Cancel or
Close button within the dialog box. Never give it the same effect as OK.

Also, read this: [http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/11/the-gwx-control-
pan...](http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/11/the-gwx-control-panel-faq-
frequently.html)

It does seem that, on more than a few occasions, Microsoft has gone out of its
way to bypass workarounds people have found that disable the GWX app, from
resetting registry settings to re-releasing KBs that were explicitly declined
and hidden by users.

------
spriggan3
The guys at MSFT just don't give a fuck... I wonder what are their plans with
W10 and the next versions. It seems it is mandatory for them that everybody
moves to W10, the question is why ? what is MSFT strategy for the next 5/10
years when it comes to Windows ? A closed system like the Xbox ?

~~~
niftich
To get Microsoft-owned media content in front of more eyeballs. This is what
Google (indirectly) did with Android, and what Yahoo wish it could do to shore
up its declining share of consumers of its content.

------
thedudemabry
I thought I was the only one! My gaming PC hooked up to our living room TV has
nagged about the upgrade for months, and I dutifully closed the popup window
each time I saw it. About two weeks ago, I turned on the TV to find a new
login screen and noticed that my remote keyboard and mouse daemon had stopped.
All in all, Win10 has been just fine, but I had no idea how it managed to
install itself without my direct approval.

------
ksk
Can anything damage large companies' reputation irreversibly these days?
Whether is Microsoft forcing "upgrades" on PCs or Apple forcing iOS updates
with their constant popups (which BTW you can avoid by using a proxy file) or
their planned OSX obsolescence. And Google being a web company is free to muck
up the UI, tie unrelated products together or discontinue services without any
recourse since they're not client applications. Most large software companies'
practices seem abusive to me. "We take security seriously" \- after they've
just been hacked or "We take privacy very seriously" \- after they've just
handed over user data for some ad cash, etc.

------
avckp
The side effects: "I live in the Central African bush. We pay for slow
satellite internet (per MB d/l). Just ONE of our computers has secretly d/l'ed
6GB for Windows 10. We track & coordinate anti-poaching rangers in the field
with these PC's + GPS. F* You Microsoft!"
[https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/4mcdon/i_live_i...](https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/4mcdon/i_live_in_the_central_african_bush_we_pay_for/)

------
8rian
Left to their own devices, people would never upgrade. This is a security risk
for MS. (Win 8 support ends January 2018). Chrome was championed for auto
updating, and now all browsers do the same. Web apps can auto update whenever
they want. Mobile apps auto update. Why shouldn't operating systems?

~~~
fluxsauce
There's a difference between security and stability updates and major version
changes.

I have no compelling reason to upgrade my Windows 7 machine to Windows 10; 7
performs all the tasks I need it to. I do not trust the privacy changes in
Windows 10, which is more reason for me not to upgrade.

I've disabled the Windows 10 upgrade path, but otherwise keep it up-to-date on
all patches.

What do I do when Windows 7 support ends? I'll cross that bridge when I get to
it... but that bridge won't be to Windows 10.

~~~
_RPM
I agree with your statements about Windows 10. In my case, I don't use my
Windows laptop for day to day anymore. It also told me that Windows 10 is not
optional and it will happen next week and there is nothing I can do about it.
It sits connected to my TV via HDMI cable only to stream DRM related content
such ad HBO Go, Netflix, etc.

At least once a week, it takes about 30 minutes to apply updates. Where my
computer would restart several times.

~~~
cookiecaper
Fortunately that use case is quite well covered by alternative solutions, like
Roku, Chromecast, Fire, or a homebrew HTPC running something like Kodi or
Plex. The Raspberry Pi is a popular host device for that.

~~~
5ilv3r
"DRM related content such ad HBO Go, Netflix, etc." None of those will be
supported on a device for as long as they will be supported on a PC. Not that
I'm a PC fan, but the general purpose operating system idea really shines
here.

~~~
cookiecaper
I disagree. Only a homebrew HTPC is at risk of losing those things. Any of the
commercial streaming boxes/sticks from a reasonably reputable company should
have support for DRM-protected content for the indefinite future. After
several years a specific version of the hardware may stop receiving updates,
but that's not a big deal when the original device cost $35 (assuming that you
can pick up a similarly-priced replacement in the future).

------
benbenolson
Use Linux. Problem solved.

Of course, if you have special needs (games, proprietary Windows-only
software, etc.), you might have to run Windows. My advice would be to simply
use an Enterprise version of Windows 7, which doesn't "upgrade" you
automatically, and work on moving away from any Microsoft platforms as quickly
as possible.

~~~
EpicEng
>problem solved

And perhaps many new problems introduced (as you point out), so... no, not
really.

~~~
LnxPrgr3
Recently had a project with a C++-on-Linux deliverable. I developed on Ubuntu
14.04 LTS, the most recent LTS at the time. Someone else tested on 16.04 LTS,
which came out between me finishing development and him testing. Code compiled
and failed to link until we built libcurlpp from source.

In short, Ubuntu's been shipping a broken libcurlpp for something like a year.
Further research tells me that's not the only package affected, and GCC 5 has
generally made life entertaining.

I'm also running 16.04 on a Raspberry Pi, and oh boy is that fun! An even less
tested architecture!

* Chromium segfaults on startup, and appears to have been doing so for about a year. Ubuntu continues to package completely broken updates occasionally.

* Most audio from Firefox goes through what I've been calling the noisy Satan filter.

* Initially, all programs segfaulted in ld.so when running in GDB. Currently, it spits out a couple errors and continues.

* nm-applet reliably segfaults a few minutes after starting.

* For some unknown reason, wlan0 has 7 global IPv6 addresses and counting.

But at least it doesn't update without asking. I suppose there's that!

Edit: Not that I think what Microsoft is doing is OK. Just think "just use
Linux" often causes more problems than it solves, especially for people who
just want Word and Facebook to work.

~~~
zxcvcxz
Still not as bad as development on Windows though.

------
rhizome
This is essentially an entire feature of the updater. Imagine the meetings and
project management involved.

~~~
zxcvcxz
There are MS employees right here on HN, I wish some of them would chime in
with their thoughts on this whole debacle. I imagine most of the employees
were kept in the dark about this too, as the nature of MS/proprietary software
is secretive and sometimes considered abusive to the employee. Likely they've
signed non-disclosure agreements and could lose their jobs for giving an
honest assessment of what they think about their employer.

~~~
rhizome
Yeah, I know that worker bees are always the last to know the big picture, but
someone somewhere had to make the "X" violate Demeter. Now, there's an
argument to be made that the close button is only for the notification that
something is going to happen, but come on. Obviously they didn't focus group
this.

------
zxcvcxz
Windows 10 slows down my whole PC and won't let me downgrade. I was forced to
move to Linux or deal with constant lag from all forms of input.

Can't believe I wasted my time putting up with the lag to fix my wifi so I
could install updates.

------
rfurlan
A simple guide for life: (1) Gather information (e.g. read the screen) (2)
Think about it (3) Act accordingly

~~~
5ilv3r
We live in an age of information overload.

------
serge2k
For probably the first time I understand why forum/reddit mods turn to those
"megathreads"

Do we need a new story about this every day. ugh.

~~~
Nullabillity
Yes, until Microsoft finally ends this madness?

