
Who is the real Dice Man? The elusive writer behind a cult novel - robin_reala
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/nov/07/the-dice-man-elusive-author-luke-rhinehart-george-cockroft-emmanuel-carrere
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Zhyl
It's interesting to compare "Dice Man"[0] with "Yes Man"[1] (the book, not the
Jim Carrey film adaptation).

Both books are about people putting their decision making to an external force
(Dice man with a die, Yes Man by accepting any offer or invitation that he was
given). Dice Man embraces randomness which ultimately leads to Chaos and self
destruction. Yes Man embraces positivity and most of the outcomes are positive
and constrictive.

One of the main issues I had with Dice Man when I read it was that you were
kind of limited in a way because you were making a discreet set of decisions
and it seems like the book was encouraging you to always include destructive
options, which would occur (intrinsically) with a probability of some multiple
of 1/6\. To abuse the gamblers ruin, this basically means that if you're
including destructive options, then you're almost certain to do damage to
yourself eventually.

To that end, it didn't really seem that useful to me as a philosophy or as a
tool. Not in any meaningful way. Yes Man, on the other hand, feels like it has
greatly changed my life for the better. Your flatmate comes home from work and
says to you "I've just had someone pull out of a gig. Want to come? I'm
leaving in half an hour". You go, putting aside the fact that you're tired and
were looking forward to some quiet TV. You meet someone who you end up dating
for a few years. Or how a friend at college invited me to a talk given by
local companies in the area offering industrial placements (year long
internships taken as part of the degree). It was in 5 minutes time and I
wasn't on the 4 year course that the placement was a part of. I had a free
period so I went. Off the back of that I changed my course to the 4 year,
applied to one of the companies that presented. I got the placement and off
the back of that learned basically all the technical skills that got me my
first job out of college. So on and etc.

I can't see the dice really allowing for that kind of flow, unless you use a
d20 and heavily stack all of the options with positive, enriching and life
affirming options. Which, really, isn't what the Dice Man book encourages at
all.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dice_Man](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dice_Man)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_Man_(book)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_Man_\(book\))

~~~
rebuilder
I'm not sure I'd say "The Dice Man" encourages anyone to do what the Rhinehart
character does in the book.

~~~
Zhyl
Maybe not, but it is pretty clear about what the author means by "dice
living". I.E a somewhat zen-like destruction of self (or ego as the book puts
it). This is also explored in the sequel (Search for the dice man, also the
name of the article).

Yes man also outlines its philosophy pretty explicitly (the "yes manifesto").
As such, it's easy to contrast and compare the two philosophies on pretty
like-for-like terms.

Dice man does approach it kind of nihilistically though, but also shows the
consequences of that approach.

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orf
I found this book at the back of my parents shelf when I was much younger and
found it fascinating. I still think of it sometimes even today, and flip coins
rather than roll a dice when I'm indecisive. I'm surprised that the author is
so wholesome.

Brilliant book, and it's a shame the film adaptation has fallen through. I
guess it's a bit hard to adapt as a lot of it's exposition is inside the main
characters head?

~~~
s_Hogg
That didn't stop Fight Club. You're right it's a shame it hasn't happened,
though.

~~~
orf
Fight Club is a little more "interesting" though, split personalties, plot
twists and of course fighting is always more adaptable to screen than a man
rolling a dice.

I think if they did it it may be pretty different from the book.

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kthejoker2
Having never heard of this, what other true "cult novels" are out there?

They mentioned Castaneda (The Teachings of Don Juan) in the article, I also
thought of The Magus by John Fowles, The Glass Bead Game by Hesse and of
course Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

What others are out there?

~~~
rebuilder
Illuminatus! by Robert Anton Wilson comes to mind.

~~~
cslawson
Yeah that and The Dice Man are the two big ones that stand out to me.

I heard of them both years back from everything2:
[https://everything2.com/title/Books+that+will+induce+a+mindf...](https://everything2.com/title/Books+that+will+induce+a+mindfuck)

~~~
kthejoker2
Whoa, someone replying about E2 on my post feels like a Dice Man-style event!

I was the lead developer there for a few years, after Jay Bonci split.

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warlog
I read DM when I was into Intermittent Fasting (IF). I was fasting one day per
week (Mondays) and I found I would cheat on Sundays by eating big meals, etc.

So I changed it up and let the die decide if any given day was a fast day. I
used 1d8 and 1s meant no eating that day (24h).

Did it fora few months and it kicked my weight loss up a notch. And yes: I had
a few consecutive 1 days... So fasting was extended to 48h. No triples though,
thank Zeus.

It cured the cheating ... And I found myself praying before rolls for "no 1s".

I called it stochastic IF (or SIF).

This is what I imagined cave dudes faced. SIF.

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bionoid
I had not heard about this, but the title reminded me of a 90s UK travel show
based on a similar concept, "The Dice Man" [0]. The host asks strangers for
alternatives and throws the dice to decide what to do / where to go

[0] [https://diceman.co.uk/](https://diceman.co.uk/)

~~~
chatmasta
Sounds cool, but finding six things to do sounds at least as hard as finding
one!

~~~
coldtea
Finding six things is obviously easier, since it's the choice of "what's the
specific thing I should do" that's usually difficult, not the enumeration of
different choices.

The dice method lets you remove yourself from this difficult final decision --
and since the decision you're now reluctant to take is now just 1 in 6 or 2 in
6 or such, and you include safe options too (e.g. "do nothing"), it's easier
to write them down (you still feel like you have a way out through the dice
when you're writing the difficult option down, as it might not come up).

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source99
I had to stop reading dice man. I just found it to be very depressing because
of all the negative actions he takes.

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FillardMillmore
I cant say I've ever read the novel, but I do know there was a song based on
it created by legendary post-punk group The Fall:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQC9PVFi-
xc&app=desktop](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQC9PVFi-xc&app=desktop)

~~~
the-rc
It also inspired one of Talk Talk's hits, Such a shame.

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coldtea
I vaguely knew the book/concept, but this is very well written piece.

~~~
teh_klev
I thoroughly recommend the book. When I first read it, it only took me two
sittings over a weekend to complete.

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_0ffh
I like to make random or impulsive (where available) choices to escape
Fredkin's paradox, but to leave all options on the table for the dice to
decide does not look very wise to me.

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Jamwinner
So is this better or worse than a more guided type randomness such as the
ancient 'throwing coins' routine? As with all scrivining, its more bout how
you approach it.

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eadmund
> … a dice … a dice … a dice

It’s a _die_! I guess I shouldn't be stunned that the Grauniad makes this sort
of error, but … sheesh.

~~~
robin_reala
To be fair, the title of the novel in question gets it wrong as well.

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rebuilder
How's that? It's plural in the title, isn't it?

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krustyburger
I haven’t read the book but it seems like the protagonist just has the one
die.

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kuroguro
"Die Man" sounds like a horrible title tho.

~~~
krustyburger
No one who speaks German can be an evil man.

