

PostgreSQL vs SQL Server installation Faceoff - latch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tacsV4PVmCw

======
viraptor
Because the installation time is what matters in databases which are supposed
to run for years (or months - depends on your environment) without
restarting... I'm not even going into differences between postgres and sql
server features. Flagged.

(also: why do milliseconds go only up to ~20?)

~~~
latch
The goal is to show Windows folk that the Linux ecosystem has changed greatly
over the last 1/2 decade. I know _a lot_ of Windows dev who are afraid of
Linux - thinking they have to grab source, make/configure it when the right
options and hope like hell.

~~~
viraptor
Then you might show the supporting tools, scalability, write a nice article,
show the tool in action, etc. etc. -- Not show that X installs in Y seconds
and then spend a couple of minutes looking at a scaled down installer of SQL
server. Showing such "comparison" along with texts like "wtf is up with that".
This video is not "showing" anything - it's making fun of SQL server
installation procedure.

~~~
rbanffy
I think wanting to install .NET and IIS is worthy of a WTF. You are installing
a database server, not a website. If you want to install a web front-end to
the server, you should run its own installer (and, probably, not run it on the
same box as the db server itself)

The less you install on the database box, the less stuff you have to upgrade,
the less exposure to security critical bugs you have and the less downtime for
upgrading you will get.

Mandating .NET framework and IIS is just dumb.

~~~
viraptor
Sure - it's a WTF. But if you want to show that X is better than Y to
professionals, you don't say "Y sucks omgwtfbbq". We're (mostly) capable of
reading lists of dependencies and a summary like "dependencies of X are: ...
and weight ...MB, while dependencies of Y are: ... and weight ...MB, but we
don't see the reason for dependencies: ...". Pointing fingers and laughing
usually makes people aggressive, instead of showing a valid point. It's not
dumb - there's a reason why it's installed as a dependency, even though it has
bad sides too.

Latch wrote "The goal is to show Windows folk" - there are ways to show things
without ridiculing the opposition. It's HN, not some other service, so let's
try to keep the level high.

~~~
rbanffy
I completely agree that this is not - and should not be - the place for
childish behaviour. It's however, hard to show MS SQL's installed side by side
with Debian's APT and not look like you are trying to ridicule SQL Server. The
WTF's are mostly noise I really haven't noticed until a second pass through
them.

And "Windows folk" may very well not be appropriate terminology. This is a
hacker place. There are Windows users, Windows enthusiasts (who tend to
severly mod me down when I get carried away) and some Windows developers (the
kind that develops Windows, not for Windows) and we should really try to keep
everything civilized.

A humorous jab here and there won't hurt, however.

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keltex
You can also install SQL Server from the command prompt:

<http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms144259.aspx>

So I'm not sure what this is really showing... that a GUI is slower than
typing?

~~~
zokier
I find the IACCEPTSQLSERVERLICENSETERMS -parameter bit humorous.

~~~
rbanffy
For Microsoft, certainly. I wouldn't accept them ;-)

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jawngee
All I have to say about PostgreSQL vs SQL Server is LIMIT ... OFFSET.

I've been porting a SQL Server app over to PostgreSQL, but in the meantime
having to maintain the SQL Server one. The lack of LIMIT/OFFSET in SQL Server
is maddening.

~~~
fnid2
[http://stackoverflow.com/questions/187998/row-offset-in-
ms-s...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/187998/row-offset-in-ms-sql-
server)

~~~
rbanffy
SQL queries are seldom considered examples of neatness, but the top solution
(which is a good one, as far as my rusty TSQL allows me to judge) is a
textbook example of a kludge.

Not that I think OFFSET and LIMIT belong in SQL (IIRC, ANSI folks agree). It's
a query language, not a presentation one.

~~~
jawngee
What do offset and limit have to do with presentation?

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mgkimsal
The comparison seems a bit unfair, in that the SQL Server stuff is going to be
installing a boatload more stuff - much of which will be useful to
administration (management tools - backups, schema mgt, etc). In cases where
you don't need that, pg or mysql can win, but a SQL Server install is so much
more than just the engine.

~~~
latch
actually, only the core SQL Server engine was installed - no
management/reporting/xxx tools beyond the bare minimum the installer allowed.

