
Our holiday visit to the Apple store - lelf
https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/our-holiday-visit-to-the-apple-store-with-photos
======
JunkDNA
I am a huge believer in the power of free and open source software. But I
always cringe when the FSF runs these kinds of campaigns. They exhibit an
astonishing level of tone-deafness about the audience they are attempting to
reach. IMO, the FSF really needs to make a better case to the average person
who is never going to write a line of code or otherwise modify their software.
Not saying that's easy and I sure don't know how to do it. But I am pretty
sure telling people not to shop at Amazon or buy iTunes gift cards isn't it.

~~~
rglullis
So, _what_ kind of campaign do you think they should be doing? Granted, there
are many other ideas (install fests, donate your old computer, etc) but these
are already done, and they can't do that in front of the Apple Store.

Also, these other ideas are all based on some compromise: "Sure, go ahead and
spend 2 grand on a macbook pro for you kids going to college, but at least
leave the breadcrumbs for us poor folk". As much as it can help, it brings no
actual progress to the ideals of the FSF. It would be more of a feel-good
campaign than anything else.

If you want to promote Free Software, you need to have good alternatives to
proprietary systems, but at the same time you need to fight against the
mindshare that the giants have.

~~~
danieldk
_So, what kind of campaign do you think they should be doing?_

Why not stand outside an Apple store and hand out DVDs under the motto 'here,
free software for your new Mac'? Put LibreOffice, VirtualBox, Adium, and
whatnot on it. Insert a flyer explaining what 'free software' means and
suggest that they can donate to these projects if they like the software.

Sure, they will be running one OS X. But one step at a time is better than 99%
thinking there were approached by nerd Hare Krishnas (nothing against
Hinduism, it's about perception).

~~~
thoughtsimple
Few Macs are sold with DVD drives these days. I'm pretty sure the vast
majority would share the fate of the old AOL CD.

~~~
diab0lic
You're definitely right here, I don't think the pro line does anymore and the
air never has. Small USB sticks aren't much more expensive, however.
Especially if you get something as tiny as 256MB and just have a network based
installer tool for all the free software distributed.

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ddoolin
Just a hunch but I'm sure that was a magnitude more annoying than effective.

~~~
trurl
This is the sort of stuff that made me decide to stop donating money to the
FSF. Instead of using my money to help fund the development of new and
improved GNU options that will help convince people to switch, they're wasting
a whole lot of time on ineffectual campaigns like this. The goal should be to
make GNU so good people will want to be using it...

~~~
jiggy2011
Every significant software company does marketing, it's difficult to persuade
people to use software if they don't know it exists. It's hard to know whether
this campaign is ineffective without some numbers. Will everyone leafleted
ditch all of their Apple products and switch to Linux? Of course not, but
perhaps some % will visit the FSF website and try some free-software programs.

~~~
mratzloff
Is it measurable? Do they have unique URLs? Are they transparent about how
successful these campaigns are?

~~~
jiggy2011
If you have the ability to track the number of visitors to your website (I
think the FSF recommends piwik for this) then you can get a rough measure of
whether that number goes up noticeably in the time after a campaign,
especially if you filter by IP addresses in the geographic area. No need for
unique URLs.

------
k-mcgrady
Nice idea and a good way of introducing people to alternatives however I'd
like to know what the people they met on the streets actually thought of the
message - it's interesting they don't mention that. I'm guessing most don't
care. Also, pushing your beliefs on someone else through a gift is pretty
sneaky. If I asked someone for an iTunes Gift Card and they gave me an FSF
Membership Card as the guide suggests I would be quite pissed off.[1]

[1]
[https://static.fsf.org/nosvn/misc/GivingGuide2013.pdf](https://static.fsf.org/nosvn/misc/GivingGuide2013.pdf)

~~~
bane
There's almost nothing worse than getting somebody else's fringe beliefs given
to you as a gift. It's like the opposite of a gift.

Imagine if this was extended beyond software into the physical world:

\- instead of a new sweater, we've given you a schedule of anti-globalism
meetup events, bring a protest sign and a gas mask!

\- instead of a basket of summer sausages, we've given you tickets to a
screening of the latest undercover livestock mistreatment movie screening!

\- instead of a new TV we donated to the local Tea Party organization!

\- instead of a new puppy, we've made a donation in your name to the Animal
Liberation Front!

\- instead of tickets to Hawaii we decided to donate the money to a carbon
offset program, here's the receipt!

\- instead of a new BB-gun, we got you an NRA membership!

------
plg
I love the idea of FSF and of free software. I'm a scientist and in my circles
in particular, I can see the virtues of free software, open source, open
access, etc.

I think though that for most people, they don't care about an issue like this
unless it causes them a problem, for example it prevents them from doing
something that they want to do.

So for example if they couldn't play Katy Perry on their iPhones/iPods because
somehow Apple was a closed system and Katy Perry wasn't licensed. If Katy
Perry could be played legally, openly, freely, on a non-Apple equivalent (key
word here is equivalent) music player, then of COURSE people would flock to
the free, open device.

The unfortunate fact is however that we have the opposite situation, where for
many free/open software/hardware options, the perception (if not the reality)
is that the free/open options are in fact not as
"nice"/convenient/easy/glittery/appealing to use as the for pay, closed
systems.

The perception (if not the reality) is that the free/open options are lower in
quality (quality of experience, if not quality of device/app itself) than the
options being touted as evil.

The only way to change this situation is to change the perception, and/or
change the reality. The big companies like Apple have enormous amounts of
money, talent, and will, to dedicate towards marketing (influencing
perception). Same goes for the devices/apps themselves.

If you can show people something that they can do easier, better, cheaper,
using free/open options than with Apple options, then they will (naturally)
move there. What are some examples?

~~~
plg
are there examples in the non-software/electronics realms where free/open/non-
restrictive options have been more widely (or even equally) adopted than
closed options?

~~~
spiralpolitik
Compact Disc verses Mini Disc and that digital cassette format (DCC I think it
was) based on DAT comes to mind. Granted Compact Disc was established by the
time the other two came along, but they did have advantages verses CD (smaller
and recordable for a start).

SDCard verses Memory Stick would also be another example.

------
aurelius
That's funny. One of the reasons I buy Apple products is because I want to get
away from the FSF and GNU. Now that I have a job and earn good money, I'd
rather pay for Apple Care and have Apple fix my broken computer while I do
something more worthwhile with my time than sitting in the basement trying to
debug "Free Software".

~~~
ajross
This had to be one of the most depressingly naive perspectives on OSS I've
seen on this site. It's really just an issue of trading money for convenience
for you? Even granting that you're analysis is 100% correct, it's morally
suspect. Your saying that now you've got yours, to hell with all the people
who can't afford it or don't have access.

Really, you need to think this through a little more carefully. This is just
embarrassing.

~~~
mratzloff
People buy computers to solve problems, not advance causes. It's not a zero-
sum game like the FSF believes. I own Apple products but also use a ton of
free software, as well as software that I've paid for. Fundamentalism doesn't
help anyone.

~~~
mwcampbell
Still, what if you can solve your problems _and_ support a worthy cause, just
with some inconvenience from time to time? Isn't it worth the inconvenience to
support a worthy cause?

------
zacinbusiness
[http://www.apple.com/opensource/](http://www.apple.com/opensource/)

~~~
agravier
That page, or at least its title, is another slap in the face of Stallman.

~~~
zacinbusiness
Why? No one is forced to use a Mac or a PC. And anyone can learn how to
install *ix on their hardware if they choose to.

~~~
ForHackernews
Because "open source" is not the same thing as "free software":
[https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-
point....](https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html)

------
AnotherDesigner
The guide, as well as this stunt, is laughable. The comparisons aren't even
close to being the same value. And I wonder if Apple could sue the FSF for
outright lying: nothing about the Macbook Pro is planned obsolescence. You can
use it until the parts wear out. For me, my HDD died and it had been about 7
years so I decided to buy a faster model instead of replacing the HDD but it
worked the same up until the end.

~~~
diab0lic
I'm sure they could at the very least attempt litigation for outright lying.
Maybe false advertising? -- I suppose not since the FSF isn't selling anything
in the traditional sense of the word. In any case that would be a PR nightmare
for Apple. Goliath picking on David. If the lawsuit didn't financially destroy
the FSF, and I doubt it would as many would step up to help fund it, it could
possibly mean a ton of free PR/awareness/advertising/whatever for the FSF. I
think a lawsuit is lose/lose for Apple here, considering this "stunt" was
ineffective at best.

------
theorique
It's a difficult message to get across to people in the course of a street
conversation.

For your grandma who _almost_ knows how to turn the computer on, and calls you
to ask you "honey, did you erase the Google from my computer the last time you
were here?", it's quite a strange, confusing, and possibly irritating
interruption to Christmas shopping.

~~~
jiggy2011
Is it any more irritating than other charity organisations that patrol the
streets around Christmas time, at least in this case the FSF volunteers are
not salespeople on commission.

~~~
k-mcgrady
>> "Is it any more irritating than other charity organisations that patrol the
streets around Christmas time"

I would be much less irritated by a person working for a homeless charity
approaching me that I would be a person from the FSF (especially considering
most people won't have a clue what free software is).

~~~
jiggy2011
_especially considering most people won 't have a clue what free software is_

Would that not be the point of leafleting?

~~~
k-mcgrady
Yes, but my issue was with the comparison to charities. Sure it can be
annoying to be approached constantly but when someone says they are from a
homeless charity etc. you know what they mean and can quickly decide if you
want to give them your time/money. If someone stops you and says they would
like to discuss the FSF you probably won't have a clue what it is and it'll be
more annoying as you can't easily make a decision without finding out more
information.

~~~
jiggy2011
But isn't the point of the pamphlets to provide that information? I don't get
the impression that they are soliciting donations in the street.

------
jph
Free software is a cornerstone of a free society -- we can donate here:
[https://crm.fsf.org/civicrm/contribute/transact?reset=1&id=1...](https://crm.fsf.org/civicrm/contribute/transact?reset=1&id=14&pk_campaign=2013ggaction&pk_kwd=donate)

------
emperorcezar
You'd think the FSF could come up with a better "gift guide".

------
bane
> to get people thinking about the injustices of proprietary software-laden
> gifts

Apparently written by the same people who smash Google buses in Oakland. Or at
least using the same style guide.

------
zacinbusiness
Also for the low low price of ~$900 you can get a laptop that weighs FIVE
POUNDS. I'm sold.

------
mratzloff
This is just a waste of time for all involved. If the FSF wants to advance
free software, they should use donations to pay professional UX and graphic
designers to improve the look and feel of those projects that need it.

Making free software better advances the cause of free software more than this
ever will.

------
eknkc
Let's fund an organization that calls people randomly to talk about software
licenses and teach them the virtues of free software. Do it a couple times per
week for each phone number. At night and morning and over and over...

That will work as good as this one.

