
L-Theanine: a 4,000 Year Old Mind-Hack - tony584
http://worldoftea.org/caffeine-and-l-theanine/
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mbm
This is interesting, but I'm always suspicious of articles that seem to hand-
pick their science. This isn't a critique of tea being good for you (I'm
sipping on a chai right now and feeling dandy) but a little healthy skepticism
from seeing years of nutrition/health effects studies contradict each other.
For more detailed thoughts on the problem see John Ioannidis' "Why Most
Published Research Findings are False."

~~~
pluies
Especially when it comes from a website which sole purpose seems to promote
tea and sell tea-related products.

(Not that it's a bad thing per se, of course.)

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tony584
All teas contain L-theanine. I too am skeptical about all of the health-
information swirling around about teas these days, which is why I researched
this topic and wrote about it.

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johnnyjustice
Can you provide your writing?

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tony584
this HNews post is my writing.

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lynx44
I have written 200+ articles in health and medicine and looked into L-Theanine
specifically.

It has benefits and does work to enhance the benefits of caffeine. That said,
this article over-hypes it, and it's really not that big of an impact.

~~~
jseliger
Note: this is not a troll or me trying to be a jerk. Nonetheless, can you link
us to some of the research on L-Theanine?

~~~
knowledgesale
the wikipedia article seem to be much more useful and objective than the
original post <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theanine> ,and see references
there-in

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tony584
I used medical journals for the research, they are all behind paywalls -- if
you have access to some University Journal Databases, check the sources in the
bottom of the articles. The most recent study was published in December of
2010.

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acconrad
Pretty much any amino acid will help brain function, but with any study, they
always give absurdly high amounts to their test subjects in comparison to what
the average human consumes. Plus, these are scientific research papers. Even a
1% improvement is enough for them to be quoted as saying "improves brain
function."

Drinking tea is good for you, we've known this for years. Keep drinking it.

~~~
electromagnetic
> Drinking tea is good for you, we've known this for years. Keep drinking it.

That's all I need to hear. I've been drinking tea since I was 4, and I'm not
about to stop now.

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alexophile
Tony - I never thought I'd say this on HN, but you should totally open up a
brick and mortar store. There's so few places in Chicago to go and get good
loose leaf tea, shipping seems silly (I live <1 mile away), and a great tea
shop is such a cool thing to have around. There's all sorts of empty
storefronts (one under my place, even) just begging for something interesting.

I guess "you should" is the wrong language. Perhaps supplant with "it would be
incredibly inconvenient but way cool if you were to"

~~~
temugen
There are a few nice places around Chicago. Have you been to Ten Ren?

Edit: Most of the places in the child comments are great too. I'd personally
try to avoid Teavana, though. From my experience, they take low grade teas and
sell them for a much higher price for the masses. I've also seen paint come
off of some teaware there with little effort.

~~~
tony584
Ten Ren is way overpriced. IMO the best one in Chicago is Todd and Holland.

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eibrahim
Thanks for screwing up my tea. Can't I just drink it to enjoy it? Now, I have
high expectations from my tea which I am sure will not be met. Thanks a lot.

PS: I drink probably 3 cups a day. I am still not a genius and I get sleepy by
mid-day.

~~~
TheSOB88
Thanks for screwing up my HN. Can't I read someone's thoughts without someone
feeling cranky and sleep-deprived all over it? Now my high expectations from
HN haven't been met. Thanks a lot.

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srean
Theanine is supposed to increase GABA levels in the brain by passing through
the blood brain barrier.

From <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theanine>

    
    
      Rather, its primary effect seems to increase the overall
      level of the brain inhibitory transmitter GABA. 
    

But doesnt GABA make one relaxed and sleepier and hinder formation of new
memories ?

From [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-
Aminobutyric_acid#Pharmac...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-
Aminobutyric_acid#Pharmacology)

    
    
      Drugs that act as agonists of GABA receptors or increase
      the available amount of GABA typically have relaxing,
      anti-anxiety and anti-convulsive effects.,. Many
      of the substances below are known to cause anterograde
      amnesia and retrograde amnesia.
    
      Followed by a list of substances that increase GABA levels
    
    

I am not knowledgible about these things but I recollect reading that in
vertebrates the primary function of GABA is to inhibit synaptic activity. It
is probably good for someone who is high-strung or epileptic. But for a normal
person is it good to boost GABA levels in the brain ?

Caffeine, I guess, will counter some of these effects, but still it makes me
worried to play with brain chemistry. Particularly with supplements.

Edit: To one who downvoted, could you tell me what you found objectionable ?

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manche
Caffeine can decrease anxiety? That's highly contradictory to a bulk of
medical wisdom out there. People can experience spikes in their heart rate due
to stimulants like caffeine.

Also, tea is more of a cultural phenomenon in that region of the world. It's
not thought of as a tool for meditation. In fact, in yogic traditions, you're
supposed to stay away from caffeine.

~~~
sophacles
It is the combination of Caffeine and L-Theanine. Drugs/compounds in
combination can frequently have different effects than just smashing the lists
of effects of the two together. Further, the effects of stimulants are not
simply "increases anxiety, heart rate, reduces concentration, etc". Look at
cases of ADD where stimulants increase concentration. Look at studies where
low doses of caffeine increase alertness without the "bad" stimulant effects.

As for your strawman about yogic monks: the article did not say "all monks..",
just "monks...". The difference here is that without the qualifier, english
assumes the statement refers to a significant portion, but not all or even
most. Further, some traditions, such as various forms of Buddhism,
particularly those that practice sitting meditation, do in fact have tea as
part of the meditative ritual.

tl;dr - you are way over-simplifying and being generally disingenuous

~~~
billjings
The idea that stimulants only increase concentration for folks who suffer from
ADD is bogus. I don't have the research at hand, but studies show that this
effect is not unique to sufferers of ADD.

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theflubba
Yep, it's a common misconception. Stimulants will have the same effect on
people with and without ADHD.

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apinstein
I can't speak for the science, but anecdotally this has been very true for me.

I used to never drink coffee or tea; when I really needed to "wake up" I'd
have an espresso and I'd be good for 10-12 hours.

Then I had a kid and found myself needing it daily. After a few months of
daily coffee I started to realize that I was exhausted until I drank some
coffee; then I wasn't so tired but still couldn't concentrate very well.

Having read a similar article a few weeks ago I switched to tea instead of
coffee and I must say I've felt much more productive on tea as well as
slightly less exhausted before I drink it.

Would love to hear of others' anecdotal evidence.

~~~
Stormbringer
I have become very suspicious of caffeine as a stimulant.

For starters, with coffee there is the one-two punch that you get a sugar rush
and _then_ later on the caffeine kicks in. (I've read somewhere that caffeine
takes about 6 hours to kick in, so if you're perking up straight away it is
perhaps not the caffeine per se)

If you don't take sugar and it _is_ the caffeine kicking in, it may be doing
so in a particularly horrible and insidious way, that it is (mildly)
addictive, and the perking up is simply the absence of the withdrawal symptoms
(that old story about banging your head on a brick wall - it feels so good
when you stop).

Anecdotally, something I found really interesting is that I play much better
chess when I'm off caffeine than when I'm on.

Oh sure, on caffeine you _feel_ all perky and smart and as if your brain is
running ten times faster (or whatever), but I think what is _actually_
happening is that we just get bored faster. On caffeine I might only think one
or two moves ahead and then pick the moves that my intuition tells me. But off
caffeine I can actually 'slow down' enough to play noticeably better, I can
think an extra couple of moves ahead over and above the "do something now!!!"
mode that caffeine puts me in.

If this is right, then caffeine makes me stupider, because I rush in, and
can't sit still to do the deep thinking that really high quality thought and
software design require.

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tony584
hey, OP here... Researchers are still out to lunch as far as tea goes with:
weight loss, cancer prevention, anti-aging, and diabetes as many conflicting
studies have been made. The affects L-theanine, and the combination of
L-theanine with Caffeine have been studied and there has been little variance
in their conclusions. Myself, along with a few other tea industry-ites have
been following these reports. We scoff at all of the weight loss tea spam out
there and question each study that comes out. This is only to serve as a
culmination of several studies done specifically about the combination of
L-theanine and Caffeine. Enjoy! Questions? Find me on twitter: @worldoftea

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justinchen
How about a chart of teas and their L-Theanine concentrations?

~~~
tony584
It depends not just on each tea, but each harvest of each tea since theanine
levels are affected by levels of sunlight the leaves have received.

~~~
ekanes
Thanks, but I think the grandparent was looking for help in what to choose.
"It depends" is true but not _helpful_

What tea should we be drinking? :)

~~~
huertanix
Personally, I'm a fan of Maté for its high caffeine content and wood-esque
flavor.

~~~
silentbicycle
I like maté too, but it isn't tea - it's a different plant (which also
contains caffeine; apparently it's an easily synthesized pesticide).

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civilian
This seems relevant: [http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/play/snake-oil-
supplem...](http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/play/snake-oil-supplements/)
It says that green tea may be beneficial to people's health- although doesn't
specify L-Theanine or the attentiveness.
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11897173?dopt=Abstract>

~~~
adulau
{Disclaimer: I'm a tea drinker}

Those medical studies are usually discarding the parallel social relation of
drinking tea. Tea drinkers may have different habits than the coffee drinkers.
This is similar than the "the children who have grown with books at home have
better education", the reason is not really the books by them-self but more
just a sign of the social behaviour. Might be the case of (some) tea drinkers.

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foxhop
We have created some great comments here, but they are disconnected or
disassociated with the original article. When I write a comment I typically
write in hacker news and on the original publication page.

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jacques_chester
You can buy theanine as a supplement. In combination with my zoloft it gave me
some fairly monstrous panic attacks.</anecdote>

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foxhop
My response was too long, so I wrote my thoughts here:

[http://russell.ballestrini.net/response-to-l-
theanine-a-4000...](http://russell.ballestrini.net/response-to-l-
theanine-a-4000-year-old-mind-hack/)

~~~
silentbicycle
FYI, the "You should follow me on twitter _here_" link at the end of your
article is broken, just pointing to <http://russellbal/> .

~~~
foxhop
Thanks for looking out for me! : ) +1

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wonginator1221
Do any of you buy your tea online? I've heard good things about Adagio, but
haven't had a need to buy from them.

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silentbicycle
Depending on where you live, there are probably decent tea shops (or, failing
that, gourmet or health food stores with decent tea selections). It's nice to
be able to smell different varieties, try samplers, etc.

That said, I've had consistently good experiences with Adagio, and (once you
know what you like) tea is well-suited to mail order.

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lachyg
This, in the form of green tea extract, makes up a major part of Tim Ferriss'
PAGG Stack. Interesting :-)

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beefman
Tea is definitely a mind-hack. I've taken lots of theanine capsules and... not
so much. YMMV.

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pavel_lishin
I wonder which mushroom it is.

~~~
tmcw
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-Theanine>

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jcfrei
if this holds true then I need this stuff in my energy drink of choice. no
time to prepare tea during work.

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alttab
Upvote this if you made at least 2 cups of tea for the first time today after
reading.

