
2 Condos Were Illegally Converted into 18 Micro Apartments in NYC - tshannon
https://www.npr.org/2019/08/20/752791717/2-condos-were-illegally-converted-into-18-micro-apartments-in-nyc
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flyGuyOnTheSly
$600/mo to live steps from the Brooklyn Bridge? [0]

I imagine the former occupants are furious they have been "saved" from that
"horror story" they were so forcefully subjected to.

I understand the fire code violations and that the other occupants of that
building did not agree to live in a building of that density, so it is "not
OK" in it's current form.

But it is also not OK to have minimum size requirements for living quarters in
a capitalistic society where the rents are limitless.

You can't have one variable holding steady while the other related variable
keeps shooting through the roof.

The entrepreneur in this story was obviously filling a societal need by
breaking the laws that he broke.

[0]
[https://goo.gl/maps/rpCNVS23FBp5XMdQ6](https://goo.gl/maps/rpCNVS23FBp5XMdQ6)

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dgzl
Regulations have trade offs and side effects that supporters don't like to
admit. See: Small vs. big government.

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JumpCrisscross
I lived in something like this when I moved to New York. A tiny (albeit
regular-height) room in a converted loft. My 4+ roommates were split between
full-time residents, like me, and part-timers who spent a few days in the city
every week. The conversion was illegal: minimal personal space, shared
bathrooms, no windows in every bedroom, likely unsegregated security deposits.

But the rent was cheap. Given the midtown location (and resulting savings in
transportation), it was a steal. It let me save enough from a good entry-level
job to co-found a start-up in my twenties. (It was also a terrific social
space, letting people of different ages and backgrounds mix.)

I understand the need to remove code-violating apartments. But the code feels
like it was written by NIMBYs opposed to density. Not people looking out for
the public's safety.

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bobthepanda
It’s worth noting that this case turned a single-floor apartment into two
floors of micro apartments with low ceilings, low enough that the inspector
reportedly had to kneel. And there was also only one exit for all these micro
apartments.

If that doesn’t scream fire tragedy waiting to happen, I don’t know what does.

~~~
masonic
This sounds a lot like the infamous "Ghost Ship" warehouse in Oakland, CA.

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chrisseaton
When they shut these down what do they do long term about the people living in
them? Presumably they rented these places as they couldn’t afford anything
built to building codes. It sounds like they were forced into a homeless
shelter?

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driverdan
This is exactly the problem with zoning and building restrictions. So long as
they're built safely (which these don't seem to have been) the size of the
space shouldn't be up to the government. If people don't want to live in them
they won't.

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purple_ducks
That doesn't work when there's no other viable options. So then there's just a
race to the bottom.

Why can't we as a society dictate that there will be minimum standards that
have to be met?

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o_____________o
Many people would live in conditions like that for affordable rent.

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HarryHirsch
Until there is a fire. Oakland Ghost Ship says "Hi!" Can we have a substantial
prison sentence for the landlord?

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dahdum
Agree, these were fire death traps and there should be criminal punishment.

I have no problems with tiny safe apartments though, I wish we’d zone for more
of them.

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williamscales
> According to Gothamist, the condo is listed as a 634-square-foot unit. If
> the nine sub-units were divided evenly, each living space would measure
> about 70 square feet.

Since the unit was first divided horizontally before being subdivided,
wouldn't each micro apartment have about 140 square feet of floor space?

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rory096
n.b.: The 2015 International Building Code removed the requirement for at
least one room with a minimum 120sf. Rooms must now have a minimum of 70sf.
[http://media.iccsafe.org/news/eNews/2014v11n20/2015_irc_sigc...](http://media.iccsafe.org/news/eNews/2014v11n20/2015_irc_sigchanges_p46-7.pdf)

Ceiling heights must be at least 7'6".
[https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IBC2015/chapter-12-interio...](https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IBC2015/chapter-12-interior-
environment?site_type=public)

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peter303
This is pretty common in Hong Kong and San Francisco.

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GFischer
Elsewhere too. I lived in a 140 square feet studio here in Montevideo (not as
expensive as SF but most expensive in South America), wasn´t too great but it
was tolerable, I think slightly smaller is still liveable.

Other posters do have a point about probably illegal wiring and no fire exit
planning. And the low ceiling must have sucked (Japanese micro apartments
actually have high ceilings, mine was standard height).

~~~
HarryHirsch
Same thing with British student accomodation. Room size was ~ 10 m^2, but the
building conformed to fire and sanitary code.

~~~
candiodari
Except that those rooms are owned by the government, in case you're wondering
about the obvious question: why clearly "such small apartments got approved"
and yet there are no private apartments available under similar conditions.

