

Linux is Burning My Laptop - cplat
http://crossplatform.net/dev/linux-is-burning-my-laptop.html

======
irahul
Quoting from another thread:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4847971>

<quote>

If you are planning to run linux, seriously re-consider buying laptops with
hybrid graphics. The graphic card might or might not run, the card switching
will most likely not work, but you can ignore it since you can work with the
intel card, right? Well, no. Most of the AGP, whether used or not, will eat up
power, the fan will run at full speed and your laptop's behind will be hot
enough to stir fry some veggies. If you have a laptop with hybrid graphics,
and you can't make it work, just switch off your discrete card.
<https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HybridGraphics> Laptops in general, and
linux laptops tend to run hot. However, don't mess with power settings a lot.
Putting harddisks on powersaving mode(refer hdparm) so that they become idle
puts unnecessary strain on the disk. You can try out experimenting with cpu
frequency(cpufreq-set).

</quote>

If you want your "discrete card off" to persist through restarts, you will
have to add this to your rc.local

    
    
        modprobe radeon # Assuming ati card
        echo OFF > /sys/kernel/debug/vgaswitcheroo/switch
    

For suspend/resume, you will have to add a new file /usr/lib/pm-
utils/sleep.d/00radeon-switch

    
    
        #!/bin/sh
    
        case "$1" in
            hibernate|suspend)
                echo ON > /sys/kernel/debug/vgaswitcheroo/switch
                ;;
            thaw|resume)
                echo OFF > /sys/kernel/debug/vgaswitcheroo/switch
                ;;
            *)
                ;;
        esac
        exit 0
    
    

I have discovered putting the cpu policy to ondemand causes problems with
pulseaudio(your volume icon will always be on mute and ps will show a
pulseaudio process in D). I stopped fiddling with cpufreq, set it to
performance, uninstalled cpufreq and was good to go.

And as I commented earlier, I will strongly advice against putting the hard
disk in power saving mode.

~~~
jan_g
>If you are planning to run linux, seriously re-consider buying laptops with
hybrid graphics.

Yes, best buy in my opinion is thinkpad with only intel graphics or if you
have discrete graphics, turn it off in bios (it works as expected). There are
no problems with (over)heating, everything works out-of-the-box. It seems that
thinkpads are well supported in Linux as I've had no problems yet.

~~~
dscrd
Or the best option: buy from a company that _explicitly_ supports Linux, such
as System76 or Zareason. Vote with your wallet!

------
jvdh
Seriously? Some poorly described problem with Ubuntu with irrelevant banter
about wiping Windows 8 is making the front-page of Hacker News ?

Half of the top comments then become a mix of wild guesses towards a solution,
and the other half become a "[Windows|OS X|BSD] is so much better because
...".

~~~
Benferhat
Do you use a Mac? I run Linux on a shipped-with-Windows laptop and I can
relate to the author. I welcome the larger conversation.

~~~
jvdh
The article is poorly written, it does not show that the author did any
attempt at a problem analysis, much less searching the internet or a Ubuntu
community forum.

How is that relevant for the larger Hacker News community? It does not even
help you who is in the same situation, other than giving you the feeling
you're not alone.

How does that have to do with what I'm running?

~~~
bunderbunder
For those of us who are toying with the idea of installing Linux on a laptop,
it gives us a reminder that it's still not a carefree process. No, the author
didn't figure out a solution to the problem, and instead just backed out of
the Linux plan entirely. Frankly, I think that's an entirely fair decision.
That's what I would have done, too. I suspect that's what most people would
have done.

For those of us who want to advocate Linux on the desktop, or who want to take
an active role in making Linux a better desktop environment, it's relevant in
that it's valuable feedback about how people are perceiving the product. No,
the author didn't end up figuring out the problem. _As an end user, he
shouldn't have to._ It's the maker of the product who should be responsible
for making sure it works. Perhaps they need more information, in which case
Canonical would do very well to take charge of the situation by having someone
contact the author to ask for more details about the situation, so that they
can put some work into effecting a diagnosis and solution.

------
h2s
I wonder about this sometimes. Every laptop I've owned in the last ten years
has had this problem to some extent with Linux. It's not just a heat issue,
either. Using enough energy to generate all that heat means the battery never
lasts very long either.

Occasionally something like this pops up and I wonder if this isn't a
widespread problem.

------
jiggy2011
If you want to run Linux on a laptop you really need to think of it in the
same sort of terms as running OX X or something.

I wonder if a better idea would be for the installer in Ubuntu to do a cursory
hardware check before installation and let you know what stuff might not work
before proceeding.

It can't be good PR and leads to this "Wifi on Linux sucks!" "no it works
fine" type threads on tech forums.

Having said that, I don't understand the problem with Linux wiping the Windows
install? The only problem I have ever had is with Windows installs overwriting
GRUB in the MBR.

You can usually dual boot both OSes with them both being blissfully unaware of
each other. So I assume he's doing something weird there.

~~~
DanBC
In this instance he says he didn't dual boot, he just installed Linux with the
intent of destroying his Windows install.

I have no idea how his previous installs went wrong.

I do know that some machines have weird partitioning, and using the menu
install of (eg) Fedora isn't easy in that situation. Since many machines have
weird recovery partitions I'm gently surprised at Fedora for that oversight.

But, also, when I started using computers it was hard. I had to learn (I had
to read it in a book) what "Ctrl C" meant. I was learning what a VDU was; the
difference between RAM and discs; what High Density meant with discs. I had to
learn about bat files and ANSI control codes and a bunch of stuff. And if I
didn't learn I couldn't just give up and go back to the other OS that was
working, because there wasn't one.

People spend years gaining knowledge about an OS and they tinker it to get it
just right. It's going to take more than a week to get this new OS install
perfect. (Having said that, it shouldn't take a week to get it installed.)

~~~
jiggy2011
"However, whenever I used to install Linux along with Windows, it'd always
mess up my Windows installation a few days later"

That's the confusing part, it's certainly possible to wipe out a partition by
accident during install but to have it magically overwrite data at a later
date is very odd.

~~~
MalphasWats
I did this once. I installed Ubuntu on a new laptop, resizing the disk
partition as I went. When I switched back to Windows, I realised I had left it
hibernated and the partition resize upset it very much.

A day or so later, I tried to install some sound drivers in Ubuntu and somehow
managed to uninstall xwindows entirely (I learnt to read and think before
typing stuff in off a web site :)

A day later I rebuilt from the windows install disk and left things alone. I
keep Linux on my servers, it's much happier there!

------
ambrop7
If your laptop can't stand 100% CPU (and GPU) load for an indefinite time, you
should consider it broken (or just very clogged up with dust). Anyway, it's
very unlikely that Linux was persistently loading your system while it's
supposed to be idle, so it's probably even _more_ broken.

~~~
Strshps1MoreTim
Or you just have no idea what you're talking about.

~~~
ambrop7
Or you could just read the laptop specs and see how they probably say "X GHz"
and not "X GHz persistent load, Y GHz at peaks". Also look for things like
"software has to downclock the CPU if it gets too hot". (btw, the Linux kernel
does do that anyway for certain supported cpus, but this is just safety and
not normal operation)

------
meaty
I had the same problem with my old Acer timelineX. CPU could hit 95oC quite
happily and shut down. To be honest I just ran Linux in a virtual machine on
it in the end. It made the difference between 10h and 2h of battery life as
well.

This is not really linux's fault though. It has to fight with a hack job of an
architecture, the mess that is ACPI and BIOS written by drunk monkeys. They
really need to just fix PC architecture or get rid of it.

------
joss82
I had the same problem, though not to the point of safety shutdown.

Fiddling with vgaswitcheroo and acpi settings mitigated the problem. My laptop
is much cooler and silent now.

This has been the biggest pain point in Linux for me so far. I am wondering
why these problems persists. They have a huge impact on the (non-)adoption of
Linux/Ubuntu.

I'm considering making a donation to ubuntu to improve this situation. What do
you think?

~~~
Flolagale
I think you might rather donate to Debian, the distribution Ubuntu is based
on. As far as I know, Ubuntu (and Canonical, the company behind Ubuntu) does
not commit a lot for upstream problems, so I do not know if it will be very
efficient donating to them for this particular issue. By the way, I might
encourage you to read this: <http://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/ubuntu-spyware-what-
to-do>

~~~
joss82
Yes, I've read it, and it resonated quite strongly with my recently
deteriorating ubuntu experience. The thing is, I don't feel like spending
hours of system tuning on Debian like I used to do. Maybe I should give debian
or gentoo another try and check if they fixed the problems they use to have.
But this also takes time away from the funnier stuff like programming and
creation.

------
jhaaps
By far the easiest way to run desktop/laptop linux and to not loose your
mental health is to pick your hardware carefully. Make sure that the
components have solid drivers in the mainline kernel and you will be happier
in the long run.

~~~
toni
so, is there a site to check which laptops have the best linux support today?

~~~
shared4you
<http://www.linux-laptop.net/>

------
reidrac
I've never had that problem until I bought my current laptop about 2 years
ago.

Gnome 3 seems to make things worse because of the 3D effects (switching
between vim and Firefox seems enough to turn the fan on). I'm Ardour user and
almost in every recording session I get at lest one safety shutdown because of
the temperature. It's very frustrating!

I've never used Windows on that laptop, so I can't compare, but I always
thought the hardware was to blame.

Yesterday I was preparing a external disk and during Debian Squeeze
installation the laptop had to shutdown twice because of temperature, so now
I'm not sure it's just a hw issue. Looks like something is definitely wrong.

EDIT: well, surprisingly I never tried to google the problem (I know, I know),
and apparently there are lots of reports of that laptop model overheating with
no reason. Great :(

------
lampe
broken hardware and bad driver support is not a linux fault...

if you blame someone for something than blame the right people not the one
that are trying hard to give you something better for free!

I got a zenbook with a intel hd4000 and i get better battrylife and no
overheat than on windows...

------
martin-adams
I switched to using Ubuntu for all my web development work about a year ago. I
even ran Ubuntu on a £200 desktop with 8GB RAM until I upgraded to Win 8.

But all my work is done in a VM using Virtual Box. I switch between two
desktops and a laptop regularly and run multiple VMs. I don't waste time
reinstalling my base OS, I just import my VM image and get working.

My 2008 MacBook Pro is struggling a little, but not just with the VM and it's
limited to 4GB RAM. Having at least 8GB RAM makes it all work much, much
better. I get the joy of Linux, Windows and OSX with surprisingly very little
headache. And I use Git to synchronise all my work.

------
Nursie
"However, whenever I used to install Linux along with Windows, it'd always
mess up my Windows installation a few days later. Last time, fiddling with
Linux made me lose my Master File Table. I had all the files, but just didn't
know where they begun and ended."

I've been running linux on various devices for 16 years, and as a primary OS
for about 7 or 8. I have _never_ had this happen.

What does this guy do to his machines?

Laptop support can be a bit variable, but I've not really had problems there
other than the odd SD reader not being supported.

------
webreac
For my next computer, I would like to buy a linux laptop, because I do not
want to give my money to people who hurt me (Microsoft). Are there any laptop
where linux works well (every peripheral work perfectly and power management
is as good as windows) ? I am not a gamer, I do not tweak much my system (I do
not touch unless it is broken). The applications I use frequently are Chrome,
Eclipse, virtualbox, XMBC, LibreOffice and Wine (for photoshop and home made
old utilities). Any advice to not burn ?

~~~
Nursie
There's a real difficulty in getting a laptop with linux or with no OS. There
are a few specialist companies that do it, and Dell (US only AFAICT) has
released an Ubuntu Ultrabook. BUT, the ultrabook with Ubuntu is more expensive
than the same model with windows 8.

I don't want to give cash to MS either, but I don't really understand the
economics here.

~~~
bunderbunder
Aside from the usual thing about companies paying to have crapware installed
on new Windows laptops, I'm guessing there's an economies of scale thing going
on. Linux laptops ship enough fewer units that each one has to cover a much
larger share of the fixed costs involved in getting a model to market.

------
VMG
That's why I have a Lenovo s300 with an Intel HD graphics card only. Best
Linux laptop I've ever owned.

------
phoyd
All the laptops I'm currently owning run fine and cool, except the one with
ATI graphics. The open source radeon driver has broken power management and
ATI stopped support for the GPU in it with the Catalyst driver.

------
jacobr
I have a MacBook Air running Ubuntu in a virtual machine. All the hardware
stuff is handled by OSX, but I get the power and flexibility of Linux. With 8
GB of RAM, memory is not much of an issue.

~~~
dscrd
What VM are you using, if you don't mind me asking? I got severe performance
problems with a 2008 macbook pro with 8GB of memory, running VirtualBox or
vmware fusion.

~~~
dlebech
I also had severe performance problems with VirtualBox on Windows but they
were magically fixed by increasing the number of virtual CPUs from 1 to 2. I
am talking 10-20 times performance boost just by doing that and nothing else.
Maybe the same will help you. I blogged about it here:
[http://thoughtflow.dk/2012/12/07/prevent-slow-linux-
performa...](http://thoughtflow.dk/2012/12/07/prevent-slow-linux-performance-
virtualbox/)

------
xradionut
Right now I'm running multiple OSes on a system with hybrid graphics, but I'd
love to have a laptop designed/tweaked for Linux. Either a System76 or "bunny"
Huang's latest design.

------
halvsjur
As the first couple of comments on that page says, it's a high chance that
this is due to problems with power management in the open-source Radeon
driver.

I've been running Debian and Ubuntu on lots of different laptops the last
fifteen years, and only ever had problems with overheating on laptops with
AMD/ATI graphics and the Radeon driver. If the graphics chip is current
enough, installing the proprietary Catalyst driver should fix the problem.

------
sgt
Most likely he can fix the problems by installing proprietary drivers.

However, since he still needs to install the OS first (and as I understand it,
it crashes during install), so my suggestion is to put the computer inside the
refridgerator whilst installing. Low-tech but it will cool the GPU
significantly, and thus allow installation to finish.

~~~
lloeki
> _so my suggestion is to put the computer inside the refridgerator whilst
> installing._
    
    
        laptop CPU/GPU gets hot
        fan kicks in
        cold air gets sucked in
        cold meets hot
        condensation and drama ensues

------
Benferhat
If only Dell's Project Sputnik[1] wasn't so expensive and the resolution
wasn't so terrible.

[1] <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4847720>

------
wslh
I have a similar experience but running Linux on a VM. There was a background
process (related to X Windows) using more than 10% of the CPU all the time.

------
piqufoh
"I love my Windows 8, mind you. The boot time of 15 seconds is a life-saver."

If the 15 seconds boot time had saved _my_ life, I wouldn't be mucking about
with linux...

~~~
brass9
I guess learning that there's a feature called "hibernation" would give OP the
rapture...

