
Stay-at-home dad - joebeetee
http://www.facebook.com/tstocky/posts/996111776858
======
enraged_camel
The part about being viewed suspiciously at the playground was particularly
awful.

Why is it that we as a society are so fucking fearful? We have an irrational
fear of communists, socialists, terrorists, serial killers, sex offenders, and
of course, child molesters and abductors. Everyone thinks that there is
someone out there who is out to hurt them and their family. Like, that is the
_default assumption_ , and people's subsequent behaviors (such as pulling
their kid closer) is based on it.

A non-parent man sitting at a playground bench and reading his paper is very,
very likely to get the cops called on him, even though he's on public
property. Is this right?

~~~
dquail
Am I the only dad out there that constantly takes my daughter to the park /
science center / library alone ... and doesn't feel the least bit weird about
it? In 3 years I've received nothing but smiles and conversation for doing
this. Maybe it's a Canadian thing ...

~~~
kbenson
I was thinking the same thing, then I realized while I may not feel the moms
at the park are suspicious of me, I _am_ more ware of my actions while there,
and may even go so far as to say something out loud to make it clear I have a
child present (for example, call out to my son or daughter from where I am).

The truth is, while they may not show any signs of being wary of me, I feel
the need to assuage any concerns they _might_ have, as if the fault is somehow
mine, just by being male and present.

I'm not sure I've ever really examined it deeply before. it's eye-opening, to
say the least.

~~~
jemfinch
I don't think that's strange, and I don't think it's bad: nor do I think it's
something you're doing because you're a man.

Even in gathering of my closest friends, where we share _implicit_ trust that
every parent is looking out for all our children, I still take great care to
be aware of where I'm placing myself relative to a parent and his or her
child. If I find myself blocking some parents' view of his or her child, I
move. I (obviously) don't do this because I think they'll suspect me of some
malfeasance, but simply because I know they'll feel ever-so-slightly more
comfortable being able to see their kid.

Playgrounds are the modern analog to a watering hole: an _ad hoc_ "tribe"
forms around them, and by making it clear that your kids are at the
playground, you're saying, "I'm not an outsider, I'm a member of this tribe,
you can feel comfortable with me." Women do exactly the same thing, it just
manifests differently; usually in the form of smalltalk and mini-conversations
with other parents.

------
lotharbot
I identify very strongly with this.

I became a stay-at-home dad when my son was born 3.5 years ago, by choice,
because parenting is what I want to do with my life. My wife wanted a
technical career, and went back to work as soon as she was able. More
recently, my sister (a single mom) and her little boy moved in with us. My
sister works at the school down the street, and has a lot of other out-of-the-
home commitments. Both my son and my nephew were in school for half of the day
this last year, which meant I watched both of them every afternoon and many
evenings, and was on call whenever there was a problem at school (both are
special needs kids.)

Some of the challenges I've seen:

\- I dress like a stay-at-home dad, complete with scraggly beard and
sweatpants (no sense in getting peanut butter, pee, and play-doh on nice
clothes!) When I'm out at the store without the kids, people look at me like
I'm a predator. When I take a kid or two with me, they look at me like I'm a
saint, much moreso than the moms who have kids with them. [EDIT: when I lived
in small-town Utah for a while, taking a kid to the store got mixed reactions,
with some thinking I was a saint and others thinking there was something wrong
with me. In other areas, the reaction was almost uniformly "saint".]

\- My grandfather grew up in an era of man works - woman does childcare. He's
constantly asking me when I'm getting a job, and doesn't understand when I say
"this is my job".

\- I actually will be working outside the home, in a school, during the coming
school year. A number of people have expressed sentiments along the lines of
"good for you, glad you're finally doing something with your life", as if my
son raised himself and I had nothing to do with it.

\- I'm constantly hearing about support groups for parents, and they almost
always have "mom" somewhere in the name. Some of them will say that dads are
welcome too, but it's still awkward. The only real support group I have was
accidental - a bunch of people from church were all getting together, and then
everyone quit except for me and a few moms and our preschoolers.

~~~
el_fuser
I sympathize, brother.

My most irksome comments were "So... Giving mom the day off?" whenever someone
would see me with my kids.

The most egregious thing to happen, was being kicked off of the local meetup
for playdates... I assume I was approved to join the group because my first
name is gender neutral.

Sometime between posting my profile pic (which included my kids) and attending
my first meetup, I was removed from the group.

~~~
lotharbot
I should amend my previous post to note that Hacker News has provided a bit of
support. There are a surprising number of stay-at-home dads here, and being
able to converse with people who both understand my situation _and_ have some
technical chops is really refreshing.

------
tokenadult
It was way back in 1992 that I radically reshaped my career plans, coincident
with the birth of my first son (who, gratifyingly, is now grown up and
supporting himself as a hacker for a startup). I read the comments here, read
the fine article, and still don't completely grok that I have had much the
same experience without as much surrounding cultural baggage. Predominantly
"stay-at-home" (a better term might be "near young children") fathers have
always been rare, yes, but they have been around for a long time. I have
certainly always been able to go to public parks with my children (the first
three of whom were boys) or to the library or other places with them.

I haven't heard a lot of the kinds of nasty comments that the author of this
interesting submitted article appears to have heard all too often. For me,
since we had children, it has been important to spend a lot of time with my
children while they grow up. They are only young once each. Way back in the
early 1970s, I thought, evidently overoptimistically, that women's liberation
would be a force to make it possible for dads to spend more time with their
children if the dads so chose. Maybe that doesn't happen as a matter of social
reality everywhere, but that is the choice I made, and I'm not looking back.
All of my children, the three boys and the one girl, are already thinking
ahead about what kind of lifestyle trade-offs they will work out with their
spouses when, as they hope, they have children of their own.

One cannot emphasize the author's point too much that taking care of young
children is a lot of work that demands constant vigilance. Authors from the
women's liberation perspective used to argue that that is one of the best
reasons to hire former homemakers as they return to the outside-the-home paid
labor force--it takes strong personal organization skills to take care of
young children. I don't know if that's what big company employers really
think, but it sure makes sense to me.

To be clear for onlookers new to my posts here, we are a homeschooling family,
so the high parental involvement with children (again, not "stay at home" but
"out and about with the children") has continued in our family even though our
youngest child is above typical school-going age. We like this lifestyle,
because we like what it appears to be doing for our children. There are trade-
offs involved in any lifestyle choice that relates both to family and to work
responsibilities, but there is plenty of time for working in anyone's day, and
a lot of good memories that can be built up from quality family time.

~~~
Domenic_S
Thanks for this. My wife stays home to take care of our newborn, we're
strongly considering homeschooling, and it sometimes feels like a very lonely
place out here in mega-career-driven SV.

------
joebeetee
Whilst I appreciate the discussion points around gender/sexism, I personally
have felt more discrimination from the kids / no kids situation, on more than
one occasion.

I recently interviewed at a large company and did very well on all the
questions, connected with the interviewers, had long chats with the recruiter,
etc - but didn't get the job. I suspect one of the reasons I didn't get the
job was the fact that I mentioned my wife/kid. The team that I interviewed for
were all fairly young (so am I) but I think the kid thing could've thrown them
off.

This may just be an issue at and job level that I am applying at and I'm very
prepared for the fact that it may have been because I didn't do as well as I
thought, but I have no idea what else it could've been. Would be great to know
if anyone else has ever felt this.

~~~
avalaunch
Ripped directly from a rejection letter I received:

"I think instead of making a more detailed offer, I should consider certain
facts.

For starters, you have a family and that'll be the driving force behind all
your decisions. Secondly, you will not be able to be here in the program with
me. Ideally, I want someone who could be here though not necessary. More
importantly, it's the family situation I consider. I've worked developers
before with family and the company died largely because of that. I don't want
to say that'll happen but I worry.

This other candidate is like me. No responsibilities except {COMPANY NAME}.
That makes life less complicated. Based on this - nothing to do with skills -
it's best that him and I work together. "

The program was one of the startup accelerators (not YC). He was right that my
family would have been the driving force behind all my decisions. He was wrong
in thinking that's a bad thing. I can't imagine a bigger motivator than my
family. When you have kids, failure just isn't an option.

~~~
tokenadult
You received a rejection letter that basically lists illegal reasons (in most
states I'm aware of) for rejecting you. You were lucky not to get that job, as
the boss is clueless about the legal responsibilities of hiring supervisors.
You have a basis for a lawsuit there, if you need the money or want to make a
point. If you are not litigious (I am not litigious either, so I respect
anyone's decision to decline to exercise legal rights), you at least there
have tangible evidence that there is some better employer in the world whom
you would be better off working for. Good luck in your career. Good on you to
think about your family responsibilities while participating in the
competitive world of work.

~~~
Tichy
Assuming that having a clue about legal responsibilities of hiring supervisors
is the most important skill of a boss :-)

I think it is good if somebody is honest. And his reasoning actually seems
sound.

~~~
avalaunch
What exactly about it seems reasonable? He's making assumptions about my
dedication based on the fact that I have a family. From that alone he really
has no idea how many hours I would be willing to put in, how dedicated I'd be
to the business, or how hard I'd hustle for him.

The only thing that seemed reasonable to me was wanting to work with someone
that could physically be there with him at the program. If that were the sole
reason for going with someone else over me I'd have understood perfectly.
Instead he's basing his decision on weak anecdotal evidence. He worked with
one other family guy that wasn't as dedicated to the business as he himself
was and he came to the conclusion that the family part was what was holding
him back from being a better partner. That doesn't strike me as sound
reasoning at all.

~~~
Tichy
I was thinking mostly about the remote vs local aspect. You are right that
speculating on your motivation seems misguided. Although perhaps it's also not
totally far fetched to assume that somebody with a family would want to spend
some time with said family.

------
Tichy
I agree with his experiences, and there would be more to add. For example our
baby-friend families usually were connected via my wife (from birth
preparation classes for example), so it was a bit harder/more awkward for me
to call them up to hang out so that our kids could play together. That's not
active discrimination, just stuff that happens.

I wanted to throw some other thought to HN: I've come to the conclusion that
we won't see a big surge in "stay-at-home-daddying". I have nothing against
it, but ultimately I think the rationale would be "why would I pay my
babysitter half of my salary" (which is what a stay at home dad is getting)?
It seems to me a mother still has a bigger claim to her children because she
invested much more physically, so society will deem it more acceptable if she
does the stay-at-home thing, getting paid more than a mere babysitter.

Or will it become feasible in the future to speculate on becoming a stay-at-
home dad? For example (extreme to make a point) instead of taking on another
career, take classes in cooking and home decoration in the expectation to one
day take care of a home? It seems very unlikely to me, although of course
there will be (and already are) lots of women who have and want interesting
careers. But would they go forth and marry a guy with no skills but home
honing? Please spare me the sexism comments, I want to think rationally about
this. (I personally don't care who stays at home). The point is that it is
very viable to speculate on becoming a stay at home mother imo.

~~~
mtrimpe
I forgot which country it was but one of the Nordic countries tried hard to
get parental leave taken and in the end they had to make 2 of 6 months of
(fully paid) leave exclusively for the father.

Once they did that and the family was actually leaving paid leave on the table
otherwise, fathers are now nearing 40% of birth leave.

~~~
Tichy
Granted, I wasn't even thinking about the paid paternity leave. Obviously if
the state pays for it, the thought "how much am I willing to pay my
babysitter" is not a factor. It's actually fascinating that despite full pay a
lot of dads apparently prefer to stay at work? I can only assume that they
worry about a negative impact to their career in the long run (ie employer
doesn't think they are loyal enough to promote them)?

~~~
rayj
Assuming: 150k/yr salary * 0.5 (paid leave) * .33 (4 months) =$24750 for just
raising a kid, damn.

To be the devil's advocate, why not let people who do not have children take a
4 month paid ($24750) vacation every 5 years? I would like to take a round-
the-world vacation for 4 months...

~~~
ecopoesis
Because promoting round-the-world vacations isn't the business the government
is in, but promoting good families is.

~~~
rayj
TFA said that Facebook paid it his parental leave. If FB thinks it is worth it
to retain him as an employee, it's their money.

The US government on the other hand seriously doesn't give a fuck about
families since most of their programs are oriented to single mothers. Also
there is no federally mandated parental leave
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_leave](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_leave)

------
callmeed
My 3 youngest were born within the span of 4 years. Any time I'm out with all
3, someone usually says "boy, you've got your hands full!" ... it's odd
because (a) I find it quite easy to manage them and (b) no one has ever said
that to my wife even though she gets "frazzled" (for lack of a better term) by
them easier than I do.

~~~
Pxtl
Ditto. Doubly ironic since my use of a ring sling means my hands are, in fact,
free.

------
joebeetee
There is so much food for thought in this article. Particularly liked his line
"Don't worry, I'm not going to nab your kid, I already got this one."

Interesting how the author felt that people could say things to him that they
wouldn't say to women in a similar situation.

~~~
pbreit
If he actually said those words, I think I'd be even more creaped out. Who
jokes about kidnapping?

~~~
gmaslov
Anyone but a kidnapper, I'd say.

~~~
pbreit
Isn't it almost cliche to joke about your true self. Regardless, still a
creapy thing to say to the parent of a toddler.

------
networked
One thing we as a society owe to a stay-at-home dad is, out of all things,
cyberpunk. William Gibson famously found his interest in science fiction
renewed and began to write while staying at home with his first child.

~~~
sampo
Yeah, Wikipedia quotes:

''In 1977, facing first-time parenthood and an absolute lack of enthusiasm for
anything like "career," I found myself dusting off my twelve-year-old's
interest in science fiction.'' —William Gibson, "Since 1948"

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Gibson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Gibson)

------
rudog
"Don't worry, I'm not going to nab your kid, I already got this one."

Is this common place? As of a father of twins; I regularly take my kids to the
park and either I'm oblivious to these looks or I am too busy playing zone
defense on two almost 3 year olds that I don't even notice.

~~~
stevewilber
As a work-from-home dad with a very flexible schedule, I spend quite a bit of
time at the park during work hours. My experience is closer to yours than most
others in this thread. I find the moms/nannies/grandparents quite welcoming
and friendly. Occasionally a topic of conversation will come up that may be a
bit awkward, but otherwise I don't feel that I'm treated much differently. I
certainly have never perceived that anyone felt threatened by my presence.

I'm not sure what would account for the difference. I live just a few miles
from FB headquarters and am in the same demographic as OP.

~~~
mathrawka
I'm in the same situation... gotta love doing the bulk of your work before 8am
or after 8pm (sometimes both in the same day) ;)

 _may be a bit awkward_

Usually more than a bit awkward as they talk about trying to have more kids or
women hygiene... that is when I just pretend my daughter needs some assistance
and I walk off to "help" her.

------
Pxtl
Stay-at-home dad fist-bump. Here in Ontario, parents have the right to split
their parental leave. We did it the traditional way for the first two... for
round three, we split it 60/40, and I got the big side.

I wouldn't trade this for the world. My kids are juggernauts of exhausting
destruction, but I knew this was my only chance to get this kind of extended
time with them and I wanted it.

One thing is that the only sentiment I agree with is the frustrating low
expectations. I'm not superdad, I'm regularparent. The patronizing "you're
such a great husband" thing constantly makes me cringe. I'm not even _good_ at
this - I shout at the kids more than I should, and when I get overwhelmed I
just bury my head in my phone and read Facebook and HN and ignore whatever
they're destroying.

But otherwise? Maybe it's Canada, maybe it's that I live in a university
neighborhood, maybe I'm just that awesome, Idunno... The local moms have
accepted me as one of their own while we bitch about homework. I don't get
suspicious looks at the playground, and I'm as scruffy as the next geek (sweat
pants are unacceptable though, have some pride, man).

But then again, maybe I'm just oblivious. I know my wife has gotten some...
unfortunate questions and comments about going back to work with a 5-month-old
baby, and that's not cool.

edit: I think I may have my wires crossed between whether I'm replying to the
FB post or to one of the other commenters. Sweat pants was not in TFA.

~~~
lotharbot
Sweat pants was me. I'm also scruffier than most geeks. And on the autism
spectrum, and therefore have more awkward mannerisms and social habits than
most geeks. None of which are really exactly the point.

I've seen other dads who are considerably less awkward in the same situation
in the grocery store or at the park. Maybe it's different where you live, but
here there's an expectation that men who aren't at work during the day are
highly likely to be predators, or druggies, or something else unsavory. It
doesn't seem to cross peoples' minds that a guy my age at the store at 11 am
on a Tuesday could be just a normal dude who takes care of his own kids most
of the time. Unless we have a kid with us, in which case we're clearly super-
dad.

------
cristianpascu
I remember when I was a very young dad, and 15 minutes with my very young son
was torture. I see myself in much of what he tells. Much of it by imagining
the now dad of a 10yo as a dad of 4 months old son.

But there's one thing I can tell for sure. A father can not replace a mother.
I wouldn't take offense if a woman asked me why isn't my wife taking care of
the child. In the past 10 years there were countless cases where my wife
handled things entirely differently then myself. Specially the emotionally
relevant things, which are extremely important at early stages of child
development.

There is no gender equality when it comes to what a child needs. A child needs
the smile of a mother as much as they need the smile of a father. And one can
not replace the other.

~~~
3825
>There is no gender equality when it comes to what a child needs. A child
needs the smile of a mother as much as they need the smile of a father. And
one can not replace the other.

There is such a heavy statement that I cannot begin to explain how wrong it
is. Are you saying that a single parent cannot raise a child on her (or his)
own? In the absence of any scientific evidence in your support, I'd say you
are absolutely and terribly wrong. How can you say "a father cannot replace a
mother"? I don't mind you not taking offense. I don't mind your assertion that
your wife is a better parent than you are. However, it remains at best
anecdotal. Your leap of faith from one example to a broad generalization that
irreparably harms not only women but single fathers and same-sex couples in
one broad swath is very disturbing. I hope you realize that.

~~~
cristianpascu
If you think a single mother raising children is happy, than we don't share
the same definition of happiness.

I was raised by a responsible woman married with a _very_ irresponsible man.

~~~
3825
I respect your personal experience but we cannot draw conclusions that can
hurt a lot of people without backing evidence. I hear stories about how
alcoholic mothers get custody of children over responsible dads. We do not
have full support from the people in terms of same-sex marriage. In a
situation like this, generalization like this probably does more damage than
it is worth.

I wouldn't say the mother is happy. I'd imagine she'd be overworked unless she
had some help (grandparents perhaps?). However, I'd not make any statement
that might be seen as her not being _capable_ of doing as good a job.

------
spamizbad
His experience mirrors closely with my friend, who is a stay-at-home dad. All
the crap this guy puts up with strangers is pretty prevalent - my friend's
experienced the same, and worse, as he's been doing it longer.

------
shirro
Women are graduating in higher numbers and getting better positions. My wife
has a permanent secure job so I made the practical decision to be home dad 5
years ago. It is a huge readjustment for anyone not used to looking after kids
regardless of their chromosomes. Junior primary and preschool teachers
(universally women) and women at playgroup are very accepting. My kids
probably miss out a bit on the social activities mums seem to plan with each
other but they get to kick a football with dad and dig holes in the back yard.
I take my youngest to the park to play in the playground nearly every day.
Perhaps I am just thick-skinned but I don't notice being treated any
differently and I see plenty of other dad spending time with their kids.

The only time I felt I got the predator treatment was when we lost our escape
artist kid in a big store and I found him at about the same time as one of the
staff members and she snatched him from me and handed him over to his mum. I
think that was just good training rather than a reaction to my beardiness. His
mum had reported him missing while I went and found him so the staff member
had no idea who I was.

------
fredrikcarno
My twin boys are now 10 month and me and my wife decided that staying home
both of us for a year to give them a good start was a good idea. It was, and i
can really recommend people doing the same even if it means having to make
tough decisions like changing jobs and not buying that new car

Have a great day

Best Fredrik

------
anotherevan
I've been doing the primary parent thing for about 16 months now. My story is
probably a bit different in that I've started it much later in my children's
lives than all the any other articles I read.

Basically I worked full time and my wife worked part time for the first 12
years. She had been wanting to go back to work full time, and we had done a
test run when she covered someone on maternity leave for six months, but both
of us full time just wasn't working and everyone was miserable by the end of
it.

Then in 2011 an opportunity came up for me to work part time, mostly from
home, and we decided to swap and give things a go. So I didn't start with
infants, but with a 12 and 10 year old. It's been interesting so far.

------
qznc
Odd that stay-at-home women label themselves as "not working". I often try to
convince my wife and others to proudly answer "mother" when asked for their
work. It might not get payed, but it surely is a lot of work.

~~~
autodidakto
I think "homemaker" is a dignified, gender neutral term. But for subversive
fun, I like the title "househusband".

~~~
anotherevan
I like to riff on the old Bella Abzug quote and say I prefer the word
homemaker because househusband implies that there may be a husband someplace
else.

I usually go with "primary parent." Speaking of which, it has been
surprisingly hard to get the school to list me as the first person to contact
instead of my wife since I became the primary.

------
tigroferoce
I envy you Tom. As a working-(too-much)-father, I work more than I see my kids
and I feel like I'm losing something big.

As others I radically reshapes my carrer when my first daughter was born
leaving unsafe research field for the safer and higher paid industry. While
I'm pretty OK where I work now, I miss so much the freedom in terms of working
hours and time tables. I'd like to find a job where I could spend more time
with my kids, even at the price of a lower wage.

Best and good luck for you coming back to work (BTW, the next months will be
_WAY_ more physically exhausting).

------
golemmiprague
Honestly, I got no clue what you all are talking about. Never had problems or
felt weird looks in the play ground, never got compliments for changing
nappies or anything like that. I think most people are used to dads taking
care of kids these days, and I am not even living in some inner city
sophisticated place.

------
crasshopper
The author was astute enough to see his difficulties as a microcosm of what
minorities regularly experience. That seems to have been lost in the HN
commentary.

------
furyofantares
I'm amazed that this comes from a such a short absence. I kept having to
double check that I hadn't misread it.

------
IzzyMurad
> being constantly alert

A good or a retarded dad? I am not sure. What trouble a 0-4 month old baby
could get into if you put him in a place where he could not fall?

~~~
jpatokal
_to run toward me screaming with excitement after I 'd been away for awhile_

Hint: That's not a 0-4 month-old child... and that's because dad took his four
months off after mom had returned to work.

~~~
Domenic_S
I was confused myself, to be honest. Eventually worked it out that this was
later in the kid's life (who goes to a playground with a 0-4 mo old?), but it
was a little confusing.

------
Dewie
> It also still gets under my skin when people call it "babysitting" or "daddy
> daycare."

It seems like a lot of people feel that dads can only be second-rate
caregivers compared to moms, as if they were to take care of a toddler it
would only be as an assistant or subordinate to the mother.

~~~
rabidonrails
my father always says "if they're your kids, it isn't babysitting"

~~~
Dewie
Saying to a dad that he is babysitting is so demeaning. It's like saying that
his investment in his own child is on the level of that teenage girl next door
that babysits his child every other week because she needs the 10 bucks to buy
gas.

------
techboots
Looks like FB jumped the shark if they're employing guys who leave for 4
months, or gals like Sheryl Sandberg who leaves work 5pm every day.

I get it - yes, it's nice and wonderful. But... Frankly, I wouldn't want to
work with coworkers like this. Entrepreneurs don't make silly justifications
like this -- only employees play this political game. And quite frankly, I
wouldn't put up with actions like this - I'd quit in a heartbeat, or tone down
my work time as well to match. Hey, just because I don't have a kid, doesn't
mean I shouldn't get time off - why punish me for that. Not fair. I'll take my
time off to work on my own projects.

If you have a family, it may just be better to sit out of the game for a while
rather than dragging the work quality of everyone else around you down.

~~~
marquis
I hope this comment stays online for the remainder of your life, so when you
have a family you love and you see how beneficial it would be if you had more
time and home as your children grow, you look back here and feel just a little
sheepish. Any company that truly respects people understands that taking a few
months of work, or only working part time, does not in any way, at all,
degrade the quality of the work. I see this first hand every day and I'm proud
to support my coworkers and be supported.

~~~
techboots
Fully agree, life & family is more important. I think if I really wanted to
spend more time with my family, I'd just quit the job rather than trying to
play the benefits system to get 4 months of paid leave.

Families get in the way of work. It's just that simple. There's less time to
pull all-nighters. Once a company starts encouraging "family people," it
becomes a certain type of place. It's a type of place that doesn't really vibe
well with entrepreneur-types or young single guys perhaps... but it may be the
perfect sort of place for family types. Like Microsoft or Cisco. Facebook is
becoming like that. It's not necessarily bad for everyone.

~~~
marquis
>"Families get in the way of work. It's just that simple"

I'm really sorry for your way of life, I really am. I mean that in the nicest
possible way, that I hope you find that there is a beautiful, loving world
outside the office, that informs your work and why you are working.

~~~
techboots
You might want to read my whole statement. I appreciate that there's a
"beautiful, loving world outside the office."

It's precisely because of that that I wouldn't want to spend all of my time
inside that office - I'd want to spend it with my family. And because of that,
I wrote "families get in the way of work." It really is that simple. People
with family have more beauty & love in their world, they realize what's
important in life, and they spend less time in the office. And that's
perfectly fine. But in such an environment, certain other types of people
(bored single guys who really want to work long & hard) will not find
themselves feeling entirely comfortable.

Companies tend to gravitate between the two ends... either super hard working,
or laid-back family types. You can see that FB is drifing towards the latter.
Which is perfectly fine.

