

Verizon iPhone 4 - bound008
http://www.engadget.com/apple/verizon-iphone/

======
mkinsella
_"On February 3rd our existing customers will have an opportunity to pre-
order... on February 10th, everyone will be able to order online, in stores,
or in Apple stores."_

For once, a telecommunications company gives perks to existing customers. For
far too long have cell phone and broadband companies pampered new customers
with deals rather than existing customers (and rightly so but still
frustrating).

~~~
steverb
I'm honestly confused why the opportunity to pre-order is considered a perk.

~~~
ecuzzillo
Depending on demand vs. production, being first in line might mean a
difference of weeks or even months in when you actually receive the phone.

~~~
steverb
Makes sense.

------
TomOfTTB
Pretty much what everyone expected. The same phone on Verizon's CDMA network.
The only a few things I noted were...

1\. You can use it as a WiFi Hotspot

2\. Redesigned antenna (obviously)

3\. Verzion isn't getting the 3GS (which is probably why AT&T was so quick to
drop it to $49)

~~~
listic
Is Verizon's CDMA network technically compatible with anywhere else in the
world? (e.g. so that you can us the same phone in U.S and elsewhere, provided
it is not locked)

Specifically, which frequency band does U.S. CDMA use?

~~~
rmc
No I don't think so. Everwhere else on the world is GSM. That confused me when
I first read about USA mobile phones, I wondered what this CDMA thing was.

~~~
dboyd
Worldwide CDMA coverage: <http://www.cdg.org/worldwide/>

~~~
cstross
Looking at their map, it's highly misleading, implying there's CDMA 3G
coverage in a bunch of places where there is no, or minimal coverage. (They're
a trade body promoting CDMA -- what would _you_ do in their shoes?)

CDMA2000 aka EV-DO isn't compatible with W-CDMA, aka UMTS -- the 3G standard
used just about everywhere -- and has about 10% of the market worldwide:

[https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Comparison_of...](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Comparison_of_mobile_phone_standards)

Here's a list of CDMA2000 operators. You'll notice a lot in the Americas,
especially the USA, plus others scattered elsewhere:

[https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_CDMA2...](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_CDMA2000_networks)

And here's the _giant_ table of UMTS (aka W-CDMA) operators worldwide:

[https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_UMTS_...](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_UMTS_networks)

If you're American and don't have a passport, then by all means get a Verizon
iPhone 4. But if you expect to travel widely it'd be much more sensible to get
a GSM/UMTS iPhone 4, even if it means putting up with AT&T at home. (More
sensibly, buy an unlocked one from Apple on a trip to, say, the UK or Ireland:
claim back the VAT and buy a micro-SIM on the network of your choice and
you're golden.)

~~~
rbanffy
> They're a trade body promoting CDMA -- what would you do in their shoes?

I would either tell the truth or quit the job. I take my professional code
very seriously.

------
kenjackson
Curious, how big do people think this will be? Will Apple double its US
userbase or will it be an incremental bump? I tend to think incremental.

The people in the US today who really want an iPhone have moved to ATT. The
holdouts are those that:

1) Hate AT&T. 2) Are on a business plan who is tied to Verizon. 3) Those on a
family plan, but aren't calling the shots.

For most of the people in 1-3, they already have a Verizon smartphone, and
likely a relatively new one. So they'll trickle over the next year to 18
months.

Completely new accounts will go to the store and look at the phones. The
iPhone looks less good, side by side, compared to the Droid X. With that said,
there's no brand like the iPhone brand.

In any case, I think the sales on Verizon will be telling. Did people move to
ATT to get the iPhone, or is there still tons of demand on the other carriers
for the iPhone (obviously there's demand, but is it proportionate to the
amount of demand that exists on ATT).

~~~
takameyer
4.) Not having an AT&T carrier in the area. Being from a state where AT&T is
not an available phone service (South Dakota), this is a big deal. I'm not
sure how many other states have this issue. We have been waiting for this
since the iPhone was released. It will be great to finally have another smart
phone option from a big player. Though I'll probably stick to my Android
phone.

~~~
mdasen
AT&T is converting Alltel's network in the Dakotas to UMTS. You can see the
coverage at <http://www.att.com/network/> (just click on the coverage tab at
the bottom). Alltel had served rural western markets well for many years and
the network will likely be stronger than Verizon's once it's launched (likely
later this month).

Because of the way cellular licensing was done (two licenses in each market
and 700ish markets in the country), it meant that many carriers were left with
large holes in their networks over the years. Sure, later on a bunch of other
license were made available, but something like a 1900MHz license isn't useful
for rural coverage because the signals don't travel as far as lower frequency
signals. So, in most rural communities you got the choice between two
carriers. Now, some rural communities only have one real option due to mergers
and the relaxation of the rule that no company can control both cellular
licenses in a market.

Suffice it to say, Alltel's network in your area will soon be running
UMTS/HSPA under AT&T's ownership. AT&T really couldn't enter the market
without buying their way into the 850MHz licenses in the area. Alltel and
Verizon owned them. Now Verizon and AT&T own them.

If you really want to see the state of rural wireless improve, write to the
FCC or your state utilities commission and tell them that you want to make
sure that one or two companies can't control all of the low-frequency spectrum
required for rural coverage. Right now, AT&T and Verizon have merged their way
into becoming the only two companies with the licences needed to provide rural
coverage. Even looking at the 700MHz auction, it's clear that the situation
won't change much. AT&T and Verizon took the majority of the licenses with
smaller bidders getting some scraps. So, the far-penetrating spectrum is being
concentrated in the hands of two carriers. If you'd like that situation to
change, demand that new low-frequency spectrum go to carriers other than the
big two. It's one thing for Verizon and AT&T to say that they need more
spectrum in major metro areas because they have more customers. It's another
thing to say that they want to have an oligopoly on the spectrum that can
serve rural areas.

~~~
wiredfool
Where I live, It's rural and all the GSM and CMDA are in the kinda sorta 1 bar
on a good day category. The only one that works everywhere around the island
is Sprint's IDEN network (which they got from Nextel), but the phones are
really expensive, the plans are worse, and there's no coverage anywhere else.

------
billjings
One thing is a huge surprise here: wifi hotspot.

If you follow Gruber, he's made the point that Apple doesn't consider this a
new device, and that Apple will probably sell it as the exact same device to
customers. This is one significant area where it's not, though - if you buy an
iPhone on Verizon, you get this feature. If you buy one on AT&T, you don't.

Apple to date has stood pretty firmly against the idea of carrier
differentiation. There is nothing about the iPhone on AT&T that reminds you
that it is an AT&T device, no preinstalled apps, no logos, nothing.

So that's why the hotspot is a surprise to me. I'm sure that Apple has been
pushing for this on AT&T all along, but it seems to be a chip in the carrier
fragmentation armor.

~~~
davidedicillo
I'm sure all the carriers will be able to implement this feature, but it's up
to them, just like tethering.

------
ayb
Since Apple normally releases new iPhones in June, does this mean the Verizon
iPhone 4 will be obsolete in less than 6 months?

It will be lame if Verizon has the iPhone 4 and then AT&T gets a new GSM-only
iPhone 5 in June.

~~~
siglesias
They'll just launch the new phone on AT&T (as good will, a concession) and do
the Verizon version in time for Christmas, then sync back up during the next
refresh cycle.

EDIT: Justification is that off the top of my head Apple has never refreshed a
major product in six months, except for speed bumps. Apple had to move quickly
by launching the iPhone 4 _now_ and not waiting for summer to launch both
versions of iPhone 5, as Android is gaining a lot of steam. This should
satisfy impatient buyers who would be very upset if their new purchase would
be outdated in just six months. Meanwhile Apple has had no problem refreshing
after Christmas (Macworld, new iPad launch impending) because they are
obsoleting mostly gifts.

Secondly the staggered iPhone 5 launch would provide Apple good negotiation
leverage with AT&T without giving a lot up. This could be good for higher
monthly kickbacks or iPad data prices. It also lessens the work load on
antenna engineers.

Given this, it's very likely that the Verizon iPhone 5 will have pent up
demand by the September music event, will cause a bigger splash in the media,
and have it be the top phone on both carriers in time for Christmas. And it
won't cheese of Verizon customers who went for the 4 in February.

~~~
achompas
There's no way this happens. Rumors suggest Apple tested this CDMA iPhone 4
for a year, so you have to assume they've already developed a CDMA iPhone 5.

------
there
from [http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/11/verizon-iphone-has-
reloca...](http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/11/verizon-iphone-has-relocated-
buttons-will-require-new-cases/)

 _as you can see in the photo above, the newly revised CDMA antenna notch has
pushed the volume and mute controls down a hair from GSM version. That means a
lot of cases -- Apple's current bumpers included -- won't fit properly on the
Verizon version_

------
tolmasky
So which one will Steve be using now?

------
tibbon
Is there any real price difference between the AT&T and Verizon plans for the
voice + date plans?

Is Verizon doing the silly 5GB data cap as well?

And does using the hotspot cost more (like teathering?)

------
WesleyJohnson
I'm seriously debating pre-ordering one on February 3rd as I'm an existing
Verizon customer. My only hold-up is whether or not they'll release and LTE
version in June. Assuming Apple does have the hardware ready by then, what's
the likelyhood of Verizon having a substantial LTE presence by then as well?

Does anyone know what their LTE coverage looks like or how soon it'll match
their 3G coverage? I'm under the impression LTE is only in major cities at the
moment.

~~~
m104
I highly recommend (as I do to all interested family, friends, and coworkers)
that you wait, just a few months, until Apple has launched the new iPhone.

The worst case is that the iPhone 4 will be half the price of what it is today
and you waited a bit (assuming no beneficial upgrades; unlikely) and the best
case is that you'll get the new phone, with all of its features benefits, for
the same price of today's iPhone 4 (much more likely).

~~~
Lewisham
I really hope this year is the year iOS also gets a refresh too. Apple has
really let it stagnate and let their hardware do the talking. Windows Phone 7,
I think, is a much prettier interface. Android has some killer features, like
Navigation. Apple has the apps, which I guess is a perpetual motion machine
for them, but iOS feels old. I worry that that won't change, as Mac OS has
stayed fairly stationary from a UI perspective since 10.3, despite obvious and
continually complained about problems, such as Finder.

I think the thing that turns me off is that Apple don't really want to make a
communicator or a dumb terminal, they want to make a small computer. That the
notification system has been so broken for so long, and the cloud integration
has been non-existant, shows that Apple really aren't all that interested in
the "phone" aspect. I think that's a real shame.

Android does it right: "What's your Google Account?" _taptaptap_ "Oh hey,
great. Here's all your contacts, all your email, all your calendar
appointments. Good thing the Internet exists. Have fun."

~~~
ohhmaagawd
Eh? They have had 2 iOS refreshes in the past year.

~~~
Lewisham
No no, they've had feature patches on top of the UI they've already got. If
you take my original first-gen iPod Touch and compare it to iOS 4, the
differences are largely hardware, plus multitasking.

I would like a rethink of the icon grid, of staticness (like how the Calendar
app doesn't actually show the correct date) and the like.

------
dpcan
In my opinion, this will either slash the current price of Android phones or
slow down Android growth considerably.

I just can't help but to think, if I were a non-geek consumer, and it was the
same price to walk out of the store with an iPhone over a Droid - I know I'd
choose iPhone.

Does the Droid have a silver-bullet marketing point that I'm missing, or is it
all over for Android?

~~~
enjo
Android is perfectly capable of competing on it's own merits. The idea that
the iPhone is the phone to end all phones is a very HN-centric idea.

Android has been competing quite favorably with the iPhone in hundreds of
other markets that lack carrier exclusivity. I think they'll be just fine.

Don't forget that there are going to be LTE capable Android devices long
before (apparently) we see an iPhone version.

~~~
AlexMax
"Android has been competing quite favorably with the iPhone in hundreds of
other markets that lack carrier exclusivity."

I always thought that Android was a second-class citizen in places where the
iPhone had been out for a while with no carrier exclusivity. Do you have data
to the contrary?

------
rbritton
Apple has posted a page in their store for checking upgrade pricing for those
already on Verizon:
[https://buyiphone.apple.com/WebObjects/IPACustomer.woa/wa/IP...](https://buyiphone.apple.com/WebObjects/IPACustomer.woa/wa/IPAToolAction/checkUpgradeEligibility?carrier=verizon_US)

------
haribilalic
I'm in Australia, where all our carriers are GSM and have the iPhone (in
addition to it being sold unlocked directly from Apple), so I don't care about
Verizon or CDMA, but I would love to know if the hotspot feature will make it
to the standard iPhones, even if AT&T doesn't like it.

------
neovive
Hopefully there will be a reasonably priced unlimited data plan, especially
with the WiFi hotspot support.

------
bho
I'm surprised that there's no LTE. Isn't Verizon's new network supposed to be
up and running soon?

~~~
TomOfTTB
Tim Cook's (non)response (via TechCrunch's live blog)...

Will not comment on the roadmap." No promise of a new CDMA iPhone in summer.
Tim Cook: We chose CDMA because the LTE chipsets forced some design concepts
that we would not make.

When will be able to see an LTE-enabled iPhone? A. We're not commenting on
unannounced product.

~~~
adestefan
My guess would be batter life. The first generation of LTE chips probably suck
that thing dry in a couple hours.

~~~
evo_9
My guess is Tim Cook didn't want to talk about iPhone 5 features that Mr. Jobs
may reveal this summer.

------
adolph
It appears to have an extra break in the metal above the mute switch, just
like the recent video.

~~~
ben1040
And as in the video the mute switch is positioned differently, meaning it
won't line up on all the cases out there already.

Looks like Verizon is acknowledging this on their FAQs:

 _Most accessories should work, however you may find that cases and covers
could be different depending on the product manufacturer._

<http://support.vzw.com/faqs/iphone/iphone_faq.html>

------
shizcakes
I really, REALLY hope Apple prevents Verizon from "verizon-ifying" this phone.
They constantly put un-removable bookmarks, bloatware apps, and other bullshit
on their phones.

That will be a total deal breaker for me, if they do.

~~~
msbarnett
From Ars Technica[1]:

Apple’s own Phil Schiller assured the press that Verizon would not be loading
up the device with crapware, too. “We want the experience to be the same for
every iPhone user. So there are no special Verizon Apps preinstalled,”
Schiller told Ars. “AT&T offers customers some apps via the App Store. I’ll
let Verizon comment if they are working on anything for that.”

[1]: [http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/01/pics-of-the-new-
an...](http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/01/pics-of-the-new-antenna-wifi-
sharing-prefs-on-verizon-iphone.ars)

------
EGreg
Now that the iPhone is on the Verizon network, the competition with Android
will heat up.

Until now, Apple had to field unnerving questions about the total # of Android
units sold vs iPhone units sold. But there was always a very relevant factor
holding it back: to get the iPhone in the US, you had to be on AT&T.

Until now.

Now that the iPhone is no longer married to AT&T and will be offered by
Verizon as well, millions will flock to get it. Now we can truly answer the
question: do more people like the iPhone than Android phones?

My prediction: yes.

~~~
pohl
_Now we can truly answer the question: do more people like the iPhone than
Android phones?_

Really? Does that mean that Android is only available on 2 carriers in the US?

~~~
EGreg
Okay, it's still not a fair fight, but at least the iPhone is now on the two
BIGGEST carriers, which means that it's less handicapped than before :)

Something tells me that if the iPhone was neck-and-neck with the Android
phones for a while, now it will outpace them. ONE COMPANY beating a combined
set of companies based on brand and quality (rather than lock-in effects). Go
Apple!

------
Sidnicious
Personal hotspot support is awesome, but will all this extra bandwidth, I'm
surprised Verizon is not one-upping AT&T with over-the-air FaceTime as well.

------
cpr
Damnation, now I'll have to get a Verizon iPhone so I can replace my Mifi (for
which I'm paying the same monthly amount for a wifi 5-user EVDO hotspot).

------
redial
Is it both CDMA and GSM or just CDMA?

~~~
hvs
It needs a different antenna configuration for CDMA, so I'm guessing that it
doesn't support GSM.

~~~
mdasen
Antenna configuration has more to do with the bands supported than the
technology used. It does require a different chipset to support CDMA.

There are CDMA/GSM phones available by implementing both technologies (and
Qualcomm does provide hybrid chips). The Droid 2 Global is the best example
right now. It supports CDMA 850/1900; GSM 850/900/1800/1900; UMTS 850, 1900,
2100.

------
aneth
"Verizon's CDMA network doesn't support simultaneous voice and data as with
the GSM version"

This is probably a deal killer for me. I do this quite frequently. I also
remember on the old edge network data activity sometimes sent callers to
voicemail, which is unacceptable. Hopefully Verizon does not have that issue
as well.

My biggest hope is that competition forces AT&T to be less ridiculous about
data pricing for people with multiple devices, tethering, hotspots, etc.

~~~
metamatt
On other CDMA smartphones, I've never seen data activity send callers to
voicemail -- the call goes through, the data connection stalls until the call
ends.

Not optimal, surely, but nowhere near as bad as sending calls to voicemail
without ringing like the old iPhone on EDGE.

------
RickRoll
What is the reason Verizon has better coverage than AT&T? More cell units,
better range of CDMA vs. GSM or something else?

~~~
rdtsc
They are hands down the most reliable cell voice provider with the greatest
coverage. Their customer support is not great, their prices are too expensive
but they are reliable.

I don't have a smart phone and use my cell only for voice so Verizon works
great for me. Sometimes I travel in US and my wife's AT&T phone loses coverage
while Verizon still has a strong signal. It is almost never the other way
around.

Hardware-wise, I believe, Verizon own most towers as well. Often other
carriers rent space on a VZ tower.

