
Losing a dog can be harder than losing a relative or friend - miobrien
https://theconversation.com/why-losing-a-dog-can-be-harder-than-losing-a-relative-or-friend-68207
======
beat
A few years back, when our favorite family dog died, I wrote about it. As much
as it hurt (and it was _crushing_ ), something that stood our for me was our
choice to euthanize. We found a vet who had a specialist end-of-life practice.
She offered hospice care for terminally ill animals, and in-home euthanasia
services for when the time comes. She spent over an hour with us in our home,
with Rubu, listening to our stories about him and helping us get ready. She
then took him for cremation, and hand-delivered the ashes back to us. She was
on a mission, a wonderful mission.

And I keep thinking that's how I want to go... not in a hospital, wasting
money on last-ditch efforts. I want to be at home, surrounded by the people
who love me, listening to them tell each other stories about me. And when it's
time, I want a doctor to deliver a painless injection to stop my heart and let
me go in peace.

There's something greatly fucked up about our society when we help our dogs
die with more dignity than we do ourselves.

(fwiw, Rubucac died of hemangiosarcoma, a dog-specific cancer. It attacks the
cells lining the inside of blood vessels, causing them to grow random,
structurally deficient ways. It usually starts in the spleen, and spreads very
quickly. The new blood vessels rupture, causing internal bleeding. By the time
it is discovered (usually due to weakness from the bleeding, or often, the dog
just dying right on the spot), it has already spread throughout the body due
to circulation. Dogs only last a few weeks at best before they die of internal
bleeding, heart attack, or stroke, and treatment options are invasive and
largely ineffective. I'm glad humans don't get it.)

~~~
arcanus
Sorry for your loss.

> There's something greatly fucked up about our society when we help our dogs
> die with more dignity than we do ourselves.

And I agree! I've said it for years: our animals die more dignified deaths
than many humans.

~~~
kgwgk
Maybe the dogs would prefer to stay alive if they had a choice.

~~~
tunap
On that note, my gramma-in-law is pissed(& in agony) right now because her DNR
was not respected. She is 95yo and suffered a stroke 2 weeks ago. She spent
the last 9 months rehabbing a broken hip and said she would not choose to do
it again. She is currently drugged to the gills, mostly paralyzed and still
manages to cuss & plead for mercy.

Dr Jack Kevorkian should have been lauded, instead he was given jail.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kevorkian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kevorkian)

------
ajeet_dhaliwal
The title makes a bold claim but the article does not back it up, the main
argument about it being harder is that you are losing a companion that
provided uncritical unconditional love. I suppose humans can be quite
critical. That aspect may be true but I have lost my dad and my dog and the
loss of my dad is infinitely more harder, no question - I still think about
him every single day, I don't do the same for my dog, who I also loved very
much.

One aspect of the death of my dog that was very hard was that I had to make
the decision to go ahead with euthanasia at the vet, because he could not
longer get up and was in pain (he just lay on his side due to his extreme
stage of cancer). That was hard, knowing that I made the decision to end his
life at that moment, that haunted me and I wish he had just died by himself.
That is hard, but it's the complexity of a human relationship and the critical
feedback and love that we get from a human loved one that allows us to grow
and learn and a big reason I think why I miss my human relatives more than my
dog.

~~~
nck4222
Yeah I don't mean to get in to a "which death is harder to overcome" pissing
match, but I've lost dogs as well as close relatives and friends and the two
weren't even remotely close in difficulty.

I get that it's possible in some circumstances that for some people losing
their dog will be harder than losing a relative, but I think for the vast
majority of people and circumstances this is not going to be the case.

The article even ends with:

>While the death of a dog is horrible, dog owners have become so accustomed to
the reassuring and nonjudgmental presence of their canine companions that,
more often than not, they’ll eventually get a new one.

You can replace the love a dog gives you, and most people end up doing just
that. You can't replace the love your father gives you. You can't replace the
love your best friend has given you since you were 8. You can't replace the 50
years of life you were planning to share together.

~~~
scoreponok
I've lost many beloved pets throughout my life, it's devastating for sure but
i've also felt the pain of losing both of my parents, for me, it's not even
close. You make a good point about irreplaceability. It doesn't bother me that
my kids didn't get to meet my childhood dog, but it really hurts they will
never get to meet their grandparents.

------
openasocket
It's been two years since my Samson died, and my whole family is still shaken
up. He literally died in my arms an hour before we wore going to take him to
get put to sleep. He had a tumor around his heart that was causing fluid to
build up around the heart. He basically suffocated with his lungs working
perfectly, his wheezing in that last hour still haunts me.

And he was such a good dog. "Obedient" doesn't do him justice: he actively
tried to please us. He'd learn cues from us about our routines, and we'd train
him without even realizing it. Like how he could lay in the bed with my Dad
before my Mom came in and was ready to go to sleep, then she would nudge him
off the bed. Within a month of this routine, he would just get off the bed on
his own when he heard my Mom finish brushing her teeth, no matter how tired he
was. And he had a special love for kittens, which we had in the house a lot
because we provided foster care for cats, and he doted on them like a proud
parent.

Rest in peace, boy

------
gmarx
Can confirm. No loss of a relative or friend has yet affected me the way
putting my dog to sleep did. I raised him from a pup and he was with me
through years of relative social isolation. He was so strong, then weak then I
had to make a decision. It took years to get over it. I'd cry when I thought
about him, even when certain songs played. Yes it's embarrassing when the
death of your dog bothers you more than the death of your father, but that
came after years of dementia. I dunno, I guess it isn't a contest

~~~
fee98fe98
My dog died in my arms waiting to put her down. This was during my divorce
from my first wife.

As bad as the divorce was, nothing will ever come close to losing that dog.
She was always there for me like no human ever can or would be and I was a
mediocre owner to say the least.

I would like to get another dog, but after my childhood dogs passed away,
getting her I knew it would eventually come. Dogs are better than any person
I've ever known, including my current wife and myself. I wish I believed in
dog heaven, sadly we just get to be blessed for the time they're here with us.

~~~
mikemac
I'm not religious, but I heard someone once say something to the effect of
"when you die, all of the dogs you've ever known come rushing up to you at
once."

~~~
msoucy
If you're bad, then when you die all of the cats whom you've mildly pissed off
- which is probably all of them - rush you instead.

------
nickbauman
Dogs seem to love us in a completely guileless way. Humans don't really do
that. It always seems at least a little contingent between people. I think
that's what makes it so hard when dogs go. No one will ever love you like
that.

~~~
usaphp
Why wouldn't they? You are giving them everything they want to and don't ask
anything in return, why would not dog love such owner?

~~~
jmngomes
It's not true that "giving them everything they want to and don't ask anything
in return" is necessary to receive an emotional response as the ones that have
been described here. That's not even a good approach to educating a dog.

A dog will be very happy to comply with any of your commands just to see you
happy with him/her/it, no treats required (although these help in early
stages).

But I think the point is that you can treat any other animals in the way you
mentioned ("giving them everything they want to and don't ask anything in
return") and you don't get the same kind treatment from them than you would
from a dog.

------
sgwealti
I'm so afraid of coming to the day when I have to euthanize my dog. I'm hoping
she dies of some natural cause before I have to do that. No matter how
irrational the thought is I will have a hard time coming to terms with the
fact that she trusts me and relies on me for everything and I am making the
decision to end her life, even if it's to ease pain and suffering. The idea
that I'm unilaterally making that decision and that I have no way to
communicate to her about what is going on and why is going to be so difficult
for me.

~~~
dkn
I'm with you.

With cats, I find it's different. They tell you when it's time by withdrawing
and being very reclusive, nearly catatonic. When we had to put down our last
family cat (this would be our third over the course of my life) I decided I
wanted to face it head-on and offered to take the cat to the vet to be
euthanized. I held her as it happened and it was very, very hard. But at least
I knew it was the right thing to do, if not the right environment to do it in.

With dogs, they might be in terrific amounts of pain, but they still want to
be with you no matter what. When I try to put myself in that situation, I
still want to be with my family through to the bitter end. I don't think I
want to be euthanized unless I'm a vegetable. But, a dog doesn't have that
higher understanding of what is happening or what the options are.

A very difficult decision to make, but it's difficult because we love them. I
think your dog would always appreciate you for that.

~~~
AIMunchkin
My cat stayed by my side to her last day, whereupon she decided to hide in the
box I had prepared for her body a week earlier.

She had wasted away to 2/3 her normal weight and was having a horrible time
breathing, it was time, and it sucked, even recalling it sucks.

------
rl3
> _Dogs recognize people and can learn to interpret human emotional states
> from facial expression alone._

I've always just mimicked my dog's smile by opening my mouth wide. They seem
to recognize and respond to that easier than an actual human smile, at least
in absence of any vocal cues to work with.

In fact, the very last interaction I had with my previous dog was doing just
that with the smile being instantly reciprocated, despite her severely labored
breathing at the time.

> _I remember making eye contact with Murphy moments before she took her last
> breath – she flashed me a look that was an endearing blend of confusion and
> the reassurance that everyone was ok because we were both by her side._

I had this exact same experience, up until whatever blue-colored fluid the vet
injected my dog with seemingly hit the brain/CNS, causing her beautiful puppy
dog eyes to suddenly flutter uncontrollably in the moment before death. The
effect was rapid, but it had a certain unsettling violence to it that I didn't
care for at all. God only knows what that shit felt like before it had fully
perfused throughout the brain.

I suggest talking to your vet before any euthanasia and discussing exactly
what they're going to use and how it works. If you have the money, opt for
sedation that renders your pet gradually unconscious prior.

~~~
beat
I once trained a totally deaf dog we were fostering. I taught him thumbs-up as
"good dog", and everything just rolled from there. Years later, I still do
thumbs-up gestures all the time. That dog trained me!

(I'm glad we only had him for a week. Another week, and I don't think I would
have been able to let him go! But we really couldn't have three full-time dogs
then.)

~~~
rl3
Hah. Come to think of it, I usually give a thumbs up in conjunction with the
aforementioned "dog smile". Turns out the two gestures go really well
together, or at least I think they do. Dogs probably think I'm an idiot. :)

~~~
beat
We've always trained our dogs with hand gestures rather than words anyway, so
it made sense. I was really glad to help out Dusty! He was about a year old, a
kind of misbred Australian shepherd that Aussie folks call a "lethal white".
Lethal whites (a product of breeding two merle-colored Aussies together, 1/4
of which are like this) are often blind, deaf, or both. Dusty could see okay,
but he was totally deaf. And being a herding dog, he _needed a job_. He wanted
so hard to be a good boy, to contribute some how, but had no idea what to do.
(He had been rescued from a dangerous domestic violence situation, where the
owner's boyfriend hated that stupid destructive dog of hers.)

He was able to move on to his next fostering knowing how to sit, lay down, and
stay, and how to be taught more. It was amazing to teach him! It was like
Helen Keller come to life in my house.

------
Dangeranger
For me, the most gut wrenching part was the feeling that I couldn't do
anything to help my dog understand what was happening. A dog becomes a pseudo
child over the course of your life together. As any parent could tell you,
losing a child, and having to see that child pass away, is the worst feeling
imaginable. It's been over five years and it is still painful to think about
the last moments that I spent with my little buddy. You just don't get over
it.

~~~
geoka9
> to help my dog understand what was happening

Fear of death can be worse than death itself. I actually think it's a blessing
that my dogs didn't understand what was happening, so they didn't suffer as
much.

------
HenryBemis
I read somewhere years ago that "a pet is a child that cannot speak" and oh
how true that is and feels!!

I grew up having both cat & dog. I was still a kid when they passed and I was
gullible enough to believe my parents that they "got married and started their
own families so they moved to their own houses".

A very touching comic (WARNING: extreme risk of tearing up): [1]
[http://anescapewithinthepages.tumblr.com/post/135364684513/c...](http://anescapewithinthepages.tumblr.com/post/135364684513/chrome-
void-fuckyeahcomicsbaby-good-boy)

(apologies for the f-word on the URL)

~~~
EpicEng
I'm curious; do you have a child of your own? Having one myself, it's hard for
me to equate my dog to my son. It's not even close.

~~~
scoreponok
I tend to agree here when i hear people equating love of animals with love of
children and it kind of bothers me when people make such an equivalence. I've
had many pets throughout my life, and my love for them pales in comparison to
the love for my children. I'm certain i would give my own life to save any of
my children, i can't say the same for my dog.

------
fny
There's a lovely Kipling poem called "The Power of a Dog":

THERE is sorrow enough in the natural way From men and women to fill our day;
And when we are certain of sorrow in store, Why do we always arrange for more?
Brothers and Sisters, I bid you beware Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.

More here:
[http://www.bartleby.com/364/335.html](http://www.bartleby.com/364/335.html)

------
alexbanks
I've had the luxury of never losing a family member. All of my grandparents
are still alive even. I'm actually really terrified that "I'm due" to lose a
bunch of people relatively quickly.

In 2015 I had to euthanize my cat. He was the most dog-like cat I've ever met,
which was amazing. The vet attempted to give me "one more weekend" by sending
him home with relatively powerful pain medications so I could have two more
days with him before having to say goodbye, but when I got home the pain
medications were ineffective and he was in horrible pain. I walked him right
back to the vet and went through the euthanasia process. It was easily the
saddest I've ever been; I collapsed in the vet's office when they finally took
him. They let me hold him the whole time, which, as a fiercly protective cat
father, was the only thing I'd have allowed anyway.

Anyway, I'm really scared that I'll have to go through this or worse over the
next few years. I don't know that I can handle it.

~~~
noir_lord
My nan was the one constant in my life growing up and always loved me
unconditionally even if she had a somewhat flexible approach to use by dates,
there was always a sandwich and a hug.

Losing her was the hardest thing that ever happened to me but I got through
it, she'd known the end was coming and had written letters to each of her
children and grandchildren, mine still chokes me up but I read it
occasionally.

I've spent a decade trying to be the man my nan described in that letter,
funny really she made me a better happier person in life and in death.

If anyone has kids or grandkids I'd recommend writing similar letters.

Don't dread the end, enjoy the time you have, death comes for everything so
worrying about an inevitability will sour the time you have.

------
Humdeee
I had a very sociable Golden Retriever for about 13 years. Loved to fish and
swim for hours and smart as a whip. The last and final ride to the vet, he
just knew. I think he completely understood what was about to happen. He was
old, and noticeably more on edge than normal during the ride. I can't even
think about the walk from the parking lot to the front door even today. I met
my parents and siblings inside. He went around the room in a circle resting
his head in everyone's lap for a minute, as if to say goodbye. We stood by him
as he was put down.

My brother, whose a burly, bearded car mechanic and tough as nails, was the
one to break down. My sisters were the ones consoling him for once. The
passing of that dog showed more emotion from my family than even my
grandparents dying.

------
metaobject
A few years ago we had to put down our first family dog due to an previously-
unknown spinal disorder. It was fucking gut wrenching for me to make the
decision. I recall thinking that there are family members (cousins, maybe an
uncle or two) that would upset me less upon their passing.

------
pcsanwald
Last spring we had to put our dog Milo to sleep, he had mitral valve disease
and we could not bear to see him suffer. I have dealt with a lot of death in
my life: close friends, family, etc. Suicide, accidents, disease, all kinds of
stuff.

None of the grieving periods I've had after other deaths even comes close to
the kind of grief I had after losing Milo. For a week straight, I couldn't get
through a day without bursting into tears. A year later, we have a new puppy,
but I still sometimes cry about Milo, and I am not someone who usually cries
easily.

------
bartread
We had a dog (Rambo - yes, the name was my fault) when I was growing up.
Honestly, as a kid sometimes I was a bit of a shit to him, but I loved him.

He was put down whilst I was spending a few months in America before
university because he'd gone for my brother who, at the time was a little more
than 18 months old. I was OK with it at the time; I understood why it was
necessary, and I didn't miss him so much because I wasn't at home. That was
1995.

It was only later it hit me, in dribs and drabs of sorrow, and I still think
about him today, and miss him quite regularly. I've never had a dog since
because I always lived in rented accommodation where pets weren't allowed, and
then when I did finally get my own place (planning to get a dog), I realised I
still couldn't because I was out too many hours a day and there was nobody
else to take care of it.

I still dream that one day I'll have a dog again, and be able to take care of
it properly.

------
mikestew
I've put dogs down in the past. They get sick or old, and I think even they
know it's time to go. I'm fine with that. Always cry at the time, but I mostly
get over it by the time I get home.

But about a year and a half ago we had to put an otherwise lovable, smart,
super-trainable guy down for dangerous behavioral issues that just weren't
going to get fixed. That devastated me. I always thought that with enough
training, enough money spent, and the right environment that he'd come out of
it. But after several years it was clear that he wouldn't. So for the safety
of the community, and for our own safety as well, we put him down. I can't
recall anything in my life that crushed me more. It's one thing to put down
someone who's already on their way out. Quite another to execute your friend
because you can't up with any other solution.

------
zeveb
I agree that for many folks the death of a dog _is_ harder than the death of a
human being — but I don't agree that this is a good thing. I love my dog, who
is wonderful, fun and always eager to please, but at the end of the day she's
an animal and I'm her owner: a dog's not a human being. When my dog dies, if I
feel that loss more keenly than I do that of a family member, then I hope I'll
consider that a sign of inverted priorities, an emotional problem which should
be corrected, not celebrated.

Granted, I may feel differently when the black day comes …

I am reminded of a column I read years ago about how people don't care much if
an innocent man is killed by the police, but _really_ care if a dog is. Human
life is worth more; I'd hope that is self-evident.

~~~
wmil
This has been studied. The issue is that people view dogs as helpless and
dependent. You get a similar reaction if someone with say, extreme downs
syndrome is killed.

Normal people have agency. Most of the "innocent man is killed by the police"
stories involve some very stupid behaviour by the "innocent man" leading up to
his death.

~~~
joaomacp
What about killing millions of pigs because they're tasty? Do they have
agency? What about stepping on an ant for the fun of it? Does it get a
negative reaction equal to the killing of a dog? It's an animal's life...

The only reason killing a dog would be bad is because the dog may belong to
someone, so it's like burning their house: it's property vandalism. Everything
beyond that is down to aesthetic: most people in your culture think dogs are
cute, so they want to care for them. In some chinese places, a dog is food, so
it's alright, just like it is alright killing millions of pigs in our culture.

------
AnimalMuppet
Well, "relative or friend" is different from "spouse, child, or parent".

My dog got cancer. We had to put her down. It wasn't easy. (The vet, in trying
to be nice, made it worse. They sent us this sympathy card that had a dog on
it that looked almost like ours. I just lost it when I saw that.)

But, you know, if you told me that someone in my household was going to get
cancer and die, and I could get away with it being the dog, I'd take that in a
heartbeat. It's not the same as my wife. It's not the same as one of my kids.

------
6stringmerc
Reminds me of a story my Dad once told me about growing up poor in the Pacific
Northwest - he raised a piglet into a full grown Sow, it followed him around
and it was like a pet to him until my Grandfather decided they needed the meat
and butchered it. It's not like they were farmers and it was part of
life...that I can understand in its own realm...years and years later I still
have a hard time trying to fathom how that much have been an emotionally
disturbing experience.

------
kyleblarson
This is a great article and set of comments, but jesus it's making me sad. I'm
going to go throw the frisbee to my Aussie Shepherd for 2 hours now and try
not to think about what happens when he's a few years older.

------
srean
What really gets me is one dog grieving the death of another.

I knew a stray who was like a protective (but respectfully distant) shadow to
another female dog. Then the female dog died.

I think I learned a thing or two about relationships from these two.

------
dbg31415
I grew up on a cattle ranch, and we always had 5-6 dogs. None of them were
"pets" \-- they slept outside, their names were more descriptions, and they
seldom lived to be more than 5-6 years old before getting run over, or kicked
by a horse, or bit by a rattlesnake. Note that most of these injuries didn't
result in death, that came in the form of a bullet to the head. Dad would say,
"Better for him not to suffer, once he gets injured once it'll just keep
happening. A dog that can't work doesn't have a purpose."

When I was 11 or 12 I had a dog that I really liked. I had raised her since
she was a puppy, always gave her special treatment, and she followed me all
over when I did my chores. Like just about every kid with their first dog
though, I didn't do a good job of training her. She quickly developed bad
habits -- she would jump up on people (knocking down kids), she would steal
food from tables, and chase cats and chickens.

Dad let it slide because I really loved the dog, but as a compromise I had to
keep her locked up in an old tool shed when we weren't home. One day she got
out and killed just about every chicken we had... and a few cats. Dad told me
to pick up all the half-chewed caucuses and throw them in the burn barrel --
there were about 50 dead chickens and 3 dead cats. And we'd been gone for
probably 8-10 summer hours... the smell wasn't pleasant. It was clear that the
dog had been killing for fun, she wasn't trying to eat these animals.

When I got done cleaning up the mess, Dad handed me a .45 and said, "Since
it's your dog, you should be the one to take care of it." It was hard, I
cried, and pleaded, promised to train her better... Dad wouldn't budge, "You
know you can't fix this -- once she has a taste for killing, she'll do it
again. Only a matter of time before she bites a person." I took the dog out
for a walk around the place, gave her a bunch of meat scraps, and then, with
Dad's help telling me where to aim, I shot her in the head. It was
instantaneous. We buried her in the back yard.

The next day Dad said he heard one of the neighbors' dogs had puppies and
wanted to know if I would like to go pick one out. I didn't want a new dog, I
was still pretty shaken up. Dad pushed the issue, "Those puppies don't know
about your last dog, and they need to be trained now. If they don't get
adopted by someone with time to train them, then they'll just end up chasing
cattle or killing chickens and getting shot. Who better to train them than
you?"

That puppy I picked, a little Mutt Heeler, ended up being my best friend for
over a decade (which is a very long time for a ranch dog). He learned over 50
commands, could work cattle, was even good at training other dogs... And when
he got too old to work, he would still ride around in the pickup with us.
Couldn't picture my life now without him in it. Dad had a strict "no dogs in
the house" policy, and that dog was the only one who was allowed to break it.

On one hand, it's very sad to put a dog down. On the other, it's an
opportunity to get a new dog. You're only going to have a finite number of
dogs in your lifetime, there's no sense wasting time grieving. Did your old
dog have a good life with lots of hikes and muddy feet and sloppy kisses? And
do you have a lot of good memories? Great, then that dog accomplished his
mission and he wouldn't want you to feel down. Who's to say you won't love the
next dog just as much... or more?

There are a lot of dogs out there that need homes, and if you invest your time
and affection you can turn just about any of them into an amazing companion.

* Jimmy Stewart Reads a Touching Poem About His Dog Beau on Johnny Carson's Tonight Show - YouTube || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwGnCIdHQH0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwGnCIdHQH0)

~~~
protomyth
"You know you can't fix this -- once she has a taste for killing, she'll do it
again."

Yep, and that's sad. It reminds me of a certain cruelty that truly ticked me
off about people. Sometimes when people get cute puppies for Xmas and the
puppy grows, people will ditch the now-dog in a rural area expecting them to
be found and grow up on a farm[1]. These dogs will turn feral and start
killing small animals. Sometimes they group up into a pack and then attack
larger animals (sheep, sometimes horses, and well kids). The only recourse is
to hunt them down. Its a sad end that shouldn't have to happen.

1) yes, this sounds stupid when I write it but many of your fellow humans live
in a bit of a fantasy land.

~~~
dbg31415
This is accurate for the rural area I grew up. It was never clear where the
dogs came from, there was a small town about 10 miles away, we assumed many of
the dogs had gotten loose... or picked up some other poorly trained dogs from
other ranches. But... entirely possible people were letting dogs loose that
they just didn't want to take care of. The end result was a pack of 5-10 dogs
that loved to chase cattle.

What was always hardest about shooting those dogs was that it was hard to get
in a clean shot. Typically it took a few shots to bring them down, and often
you'd have to go up close to finish it off. Once it was hurt, it stopped being
a ferocious animal that was attacking your livestock and turned back into
someone's whimpering pet. By the point you had shot it in the back hip, and
side... it knew you were coming to kill it. In the end it was confused, and
hurt, and scared, and alone.

Couldn't help but feel that people had failed those animals.

------
DoodleBuggy
You'll never find a more loyal partner than a dog.

------
kazinator
Funny: losing a _god_ , on the other hand, can be so casual as to be barely
perceptible. Looking back across the years, you can hardly pinpoint the time
of death.

------
nate_meurer
Damn article made me cry just reading it

