
Ask HN: Berkeley or Urbana Champaign? - kajecounterhack
I want to do web entrepreneurship. I want to be a hacker. Unfortunately, I applied and got into the Honors business track for U. Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. I also applied and got L&#38;S for UC Berkeley. I'll be switching into computer science tracks ASAP, regardless of what school I go to, but a friend tells me it's easy to do at Berkeley and I'd lose 12k worth of scholarship if I switch at UIUC.<p>UIUC costs 17k because of my scholarships.
Berkeley costs 50k and 40k are in loans.<p>My parents earn less than 100k annually (and a sister in college). Should I take the loans and go to Berkeley or stick with UIUC?<p>Complication: I met a girl named Jessica Mah and am interested in working with her, and this dilemma was actually caused by her talking me into thinking Berkeley would be more conducive for toward my efforts than I originally guessed. Originally, I was going to say, oh heck, I'll go to the cheaper school. But now I'm seriously weighing the pros and cons.<p>Anyone have some insight? I know most of you here are from the valley, anyway. Jess says many valley people either went to Berkeley, Stanford, or both. Not to mention she says she'll hook me up with people I'll want to meet...? ;)
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menloparkbum
Go to Berkeley. The weather is better. The town is cooler. It's close to the
ocean. And the mountains. There are cuter asian girls (and better looking
men.) The school itself is ranked higher... in every subject. It's the best
public university in the country.

No matter what your major, it's a university everyone in the WORLD has heard
of before. You are therefore considered smart for going there even if you
major in Psychology. UIUC is only known in Illinois and some engineering
circles.

Nobody goes to Berkeley and thinks "I should have gone to UIUC." But they do
wonder the other way around.

(I went to university in the midwest and moved to Berkeley after I graduated,
and then kicked myself for not even trying to go to Berkeley or Stanford.)

~~~
siong1987
UIUC is very famous in Computer Science. I don't think that people will give
you a job because you are graduating from a FAMOUS university. It is more on
what major you take than what university you are graduating from.

Think of this:

EE from Yale or EE from UIUC? I am sure that a EE company will definitely
choose the latter.

~~~
menloparkbum
Having a degree from a famous university may not automatically get you a job,
but it will definitely get you more job interviews.

If you know for sure you're doing engineering and you got into the EECS
program at UIUC, then it probably doesn't matter as much. However, it didn't
sound like that was the case for the original poster.

~~~
siong1987
It is not really hard to get a minor in CS in UIUC as long as you are good in
Math and Science subjects.

But, one thing is sure: 17K vs 40k

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gaius
Dude, I'm guessing you're only 18, so please take my advice: do not choose
your college 'cos you're chasing some girl. By the time you graduate both you
and she will be different people. And you're going to meet a ton of
interesting people over the next 4 years (and I know you don't want to hear
this right now, but so is she).

There is nothing wrong with UIUC, that's where NCSA is. Stick to your original
plan. Heck, stay with the business program too and learn to hack on the side
and maybe take some CS electives if you can get credit for them. Graduating
with a ton of debt in what it looks like the economy's going to be ain't going
to be pretty.

~~~
kajecounterhack
HAHA it's not like that, she's like one of the most well-connected 18 year
olds on the west coast and I could be a part of a startup with her...

but thanks for the insight, exactly what my dad told me. ;_;

~~~
siong1987
I am studying in UIUC now majoring in CS. It is a very good chance for you to
transfer to CS major as long as you are doing good in all the science and math
subjects when you are in college. Here, you will have the chance to study in
the best building in the campus across NCSA -
<http://www.cs.uiuc.edu/about/siebelcenter.php> ( I have 5 classes here every
week even I am freshmen now)

Pros:

Startups? We have entrepreneurs like Jawed Karim(Youtube), Steve
Chen(Youtube), Marc Andreessen(Netscape), Thomas Siebel, Max Levchin(Paypal),
etc. (Geni, Yammer, Yelp, etc)

I am doing a startup right now with few of my friends. I am going to
California this summer and I am putting my school on hold for next few
semesters. One of my partner got into MIT before he came here. He decided to
come to UIUC because the tuition fees in MIT was really too high (50K vs 13K).
He thought that he made the correct decision after he worked on one of the
project from MIT.

Cons:

The weather here sucks. It is really cold during the winter.

And, I am sure that Berkerley will have better "startup" environment. But, you
will still see some startups around you in UIUC (My startup :X ).

(Anyway, I know Jessica Mah too. And, I can hook you up with people you want
to meet too if you are coming to California this summer. But, do you think
that networking really helps you to start your next big idea? Your skills are
actually more important.)

~~~
evgen
> We have entrepreneurs like Jawed Karim(Youtube), Steve Chen(Youtube), Marc
> Andreessen(Netscape), Thomas Siebel, Max Levchin(Paypal), etc. (Geni,
> Yammer, Yelp, etc)

You _had_ them. All of them came out to the bay area to actually do their
startups. That might tell you something :)

~~~
siong1987
You are right. Bay Area is a good place to start a startup. But, he is going
to study. Not starting a startup. What I wanted to say is: you don't
necessarily have to graduate from a bay area university to start your startup.

~~~
kajecounterhack
Hmm can I do both?

~~~
siong1987
It is really hard to start a startup if you are studying at the same time.
That is why I have to put my school on hold for the next few semesters.

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tokenadult
My overwhelming bias when I give advice on this subject of choosing colleges
is to go as far away from home as possible, because that causes personal
growth. (I didn't get that personal growth until AFTER college, when I lived
overseas.) BUT, money does matter, and you are talking about a substantial
money difference.

Now let's be clear: are you sure that you must take a financial hit to major
in computer science at UIUC? Or can you major in business and still take quite
a few CS courses anyway?

What is the assurance you can get into CS at Berkeley at all? I thought that
was an "impacted" major there.

Good luck deciding. If the money were closer, it would be a no-brainer to go
to Berkeley, but the money is not close, so there is much to be said for
staying with Illinois.

~~~
russell
Good point. My son majored in EE&CS at Berkeley. IIRC you cant transfer into
CS from L&S. You might find yourself in the position that you go to Berkeley
and cant get into CS. My info is 10 years old, so check it out.

Also Berkeley was very heavy into the Computer Engineering side of things. Be
sure you like EE and hardware.

~~~
menloparkbum
There's an alternative track at Berkeley for a CS major within L&S, if you're
not admitted into the engineering school.

[http://sis.berkeley.edu/catalog/gcc_view_req?p_dept_cd=COMSC...](http://sis.berkeley.edu/catalog/gcc_view_req?p_dept_cd=COMSCLS)

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dantheman
Do the math on how much it's going to cost you -- I would not want to get near
160k worth of debt, which is what it sounds like you're proposing. Also, you
can take your summers, or even semesters to work in the bay area if you want.
Hell for a few thousand dollars a year you can probably fly out there every
weekend and work with your friends if you really wanted to.

Personally, I think anyone going over 50k of debt for an undergrad should
really think it through, there may be cases where it makes sense but that is a
lot of money. Also, having a significant debt load will limit your choices
when you graduate from college -- the minimum salary that you'll need to live
and pay your loans will be quite high.

Best of luck.

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viggity
Most high school seniors think that college is about education. It is, just
not the kind of education you think. College is about learning to be an adult,
I got infinitely more experience and knowledge participating in campus groups
and events than I ever did from class. You'll learn almost everything you need
to know for your career on the job. So, I just can't see how Berkeley is worth
the extra money.

Regardless of which school you go to, I highly highly recommend that you
consider joining a fraternity. It is honestly one of the best decisions I've
ever made in my life. There are certainly going to be houses that are full of
douche bags, but if you find the right house (and there is one for everyone)
you'll have an amazing experience. You'll learn so much about yourself and so
much about dealing and interacting with people. And good interaction skills
are a force multiplier, they'll make you a much more effective (and pay
worthy) businessman/engineer/hacker.

At least go through Fall Rush, there is never an obligation to join and worst
case scenario you've wasted a few hours, best case scenario you have 100 new
friends for life.

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davidw
I've never been to Illinois, but the Bay Area is pretty much guaranteed to
have better weather and nicer outdoor type stuff, if that matters (it does to
me, a lot).

