
PayPal blocks donations to The Grayzone that mention Iran - oska
https://thegrayzone.com/2020/01/09/paypal-blocks-donations-iran/
======
kick
_How to take payments without a chance of political censorship in 2019_ ,
stolen from The Ancient Wizards of Technology's Past:

View the following.

[https://about.usps.com/forms/ps1093.pdf](https://about.usps.com/forms/ps1093.pdf)

Follow the instructions to get a PO Box. To avoid mail containing harmful or
annoying items, I recommend a small one.

Put the mailing address of your PO Box on your website, and tell people
sending cash to it to address it to "YOURSITE," possibly appending "Donation
Fund" if applicable.

Be careful to remind the reader that they need not put their real (or any)
name on it, and that they can get stamps anonymously and location-randomized
with ease if desired.

This also works _amazingly_ if you want to charge for hardware or hosting,
especially hardware or hosting that's privacy-focused.

Congratulations! Your readers/customers can send you money from almost
anywhere without identifying themselves, and you can rest easy knowing that
any dollars meant for you will reach you.

~~~
harikb
Ha! I just lost a hundred dollars just last week this way. Funny story - my
aunt has a habit of mailing family holiday cards with $$cash$$. I am
subscribed to “informed delivery digest” from US Postal service. I even saw
the image of the letter I am (was) going to get. That was the last I heard of
it!

~~~
kick
[https://faq.usps.com/s/article/Mail-
Theft](https://faq.usps.com/s/article/Mail-Theft)
[https://ehome.uspis.gov/fcsexternal/default.aspx](https://ehome.uspis.gov/fcsexternal/default.aspx)

Lots of people are employed by the Fed to handle these exact cases! I'd
recommend getting it investigated, if nothing else, it'll help them keep
justifying their jobs.

------
cwyers
For everyone in this thread mentioning Bitcoin/crypto: in no way does using
cryptocurrency exempt you from US sanctions. Given the way most crypto
exchanges are run, I wouldn't even think that it offers much protection
against getting caught.

~~~
StanislavPetrov
Its not an issue of US Sanctions. Grayzone is a US publication owned and
operated by Americans in the United States. Its a matter of circumnavigating
Paypal's interference in their receiving donations. Nobody has suggested that
any of this money came from Iran (where Paypal doesn't even operate). Use
crypto would potentially be an effective way to donate to Grayzone without
requiring Paypal's approval.

------
DarkWiiPlayer
Whether it's in the from of government regulations or the free market deciding
to prefer another service, society shouldn't be allowing this sort of behavior
from large companies, but the sad truth is, many people don't care and most
likely just rationalize it as "it doesn't affect me" or "It's just a few
dollars".

------
LiamPa
Iran is on the FATF black list and features a lot in the OFAC sanctions lists,
any transaction mentioning Iran is going to be blocked.

~~~
duskwuff
No idea why this is downvoted; it's the plain truth. The same thing goes for
other sanctioned countries: (Cuba, North Korea, Sudan, and Syria), as well as
for transactions mentioning sanctioned individuals or organizations.

~~~
benwad
Is Cuba still sanctioned? I thought the main embargo was lifted a few years
ago.

~~~
duskwuff
Cuba was removed from the State Sponsors of Terrorism list in 2015, but it
remains under heavy economic sanctions and travel restrictions -- enough so
that mentioning "Cuba" or "Havana" in an electronic payment memo will probably
get your account locked temporarily while the compliance department takes a
look at it.

------
brendanfalk
The US government is so strict on all transactions due to Anti Money
Laundering and Counter Terrorism Financing laws. This donation clearly meant
well, but it’s totally understandable that PayPal blocked it given everything
that has just happened in Iran.

Yes, this clearly pushes people towards crypto, but PayPal is doing what the
Government is mandating and is merely protecting itself.

~~~
duskwuff
Current events in Iran aren't a factor -- this is a sanctions issue and always
has been. If you tried to make a Paypal donation mentioning Iran a month ago,
that would have gotten blocked too.

~~~
brendanfalk
Agree. Iran has been sanctioned for a long time, But PayPal would almost
certainly would be overly cautious given recent events and maybe more edge
cases are getting denied than a few months ago.

Anyway, either way we clearly agree here

------
mrb
This sort of financial censorship is a textbook example of a problem perfectly
solved by Bitcoin-class cryptocurrencies. A censorship-resistant digital
currency may not be useful to _you_ personally, but it's painfully obvious
there are heaps of people who legitimately need them in our modern world for
use cases that would never cross your mind.

~~~
zaarn
Bitcoin isn't censorship resistant when you want to pay out into real money.
The exchanges can block it, especially if you're on one of the various "do not
trade" lists.

~~~
ryanlol
Huh? The world is full of exchangers that require no KYC whatsoever.

The Russian guy who pays my rent with SEPA transfers has never asked for my
name.

~~~
ckrailo
Not certain, but I think most of the time, rent will be under the
amount/volume threshold for KYC requirements.

~~~
ryanlol
My rent is firmly in the Bay Area territory, so probably not.

Anyway, none of these guys do KYC.

------
chvid
Just another reminder how powerful the US is and how extreme sanctions they
have put on Iran.

------
justinzollars
The United States seized funds my supervisor sent to his friend who mentioned
the word "ISIS" in a Venmo transaction.

Be careful of your transaction messages.

~~~
loeg
And maybe avoid banking services that are less culpable to their customers
than even traditional banks? Paypal, venmo, etc are aggressively customer
hostile even compared to the traditional banking sector.

~~~
Jamwinner
Yup. People look at me weird once in a while, but cash always works. No fees.
Censorship resistant, close to anonymous, and accepted everywhere, network or
not. I can do without yet another app selling my data.

~~~
loeg
Cash is fine, too. But really I am just advocating for like, Credit Unions, or
even traditional for-profit banks like Chase, Citi, Wells Fargo, etc as places
for storing your money rather than Paypal or Venmo. Zelle instead of Venmo for
quick payments to friends. Credit cards or debit cards or whatever instead of
Paypal anything.

------
yibg
Seems like just a dumb keyword match. At least make it more context sensitive
or have a human review it first.

~~~
loeg
FWIW, you would see reports of this kind of thing long before the recent
violence. People would mention "persian rug" and get their accounts locked or
transactions reversed. Super lazy embargo enforcement.

~~~
DarkWiiPlayer
> Super lazy embargo enforcement.

In a way I can understand that; if you just want to do your job and some
politician decides now that "iranians = bad" and makes you responsible for
restricting your transactions with them, you wouldn't be very motivated
either.

They probably just considered the costs and concluded that it'd be cheaper in
the short term to block a few unrelated transactions than to implement a huge
system to accurately filter out only the right transactions.

This is no defense, but we already knew that big companies like paypal don't
care to be "the good guys"

~~~
duskwuff
Well, even simpler than that: the penalties for failing to block an actually-
bad transaction are massive, potentially denominated in millions of dollars.
The financial consequences of blocking a legitimate transaction are
comparatively minor.

------
rvz
Well done PayPal. You have just legitimised the use case for using
cryptocurrencies as a way of sending money without being censored.

What a spectacular own goal here.

------
SimonB_
A solution for this kind of payment filtering is using a cryptocurrency like
Nano. Unlike PayPal, it has no fees, and the transfer takes less time too.
There are many other advantages that I won't go into.

------
Glosster
Maybe a solution would be for people to use cryptocurrency for donations.

------
Krasnol
Am I missing something or where is the screenshot of a mail saying anything
about Iran?

------
tuxt
So stop using PayPal?

------
r32a_
Use Bitcoin, problem solved

~~~
DarkWiiPlayer
For as much flaws as bitcoin has, this kind of bullshit is the biggest reason
why I hope it will ultimately become a more viable form of payment.

~~~
sschueller
I would even use Dogecoin if it came down to it. :)

------
wallace_f
>“To comply with government regulations, PayPal is required to review certain
transactions.”

For mentioning the word Iran. Terrifying.

I guess the best to hope for is that the Institute for Justice or the ACLU
pick this up and sue for their free speech rights. But even then, the only
consequence would be taxpayers burdened to pay up.

~~~
loeg
They were doing this long before last week.

2019: [https://www.newsweek.com/venmo-flags-payments-persia-
allows-...](https://www.newsweek.com/venmo-flags-payments-persia-allows-
nazis-1339871)

2016: [https://www.inc.com/tess-townsend/venmo-reportedly-
blocking-...](https://www.inc.com/tess-townsend/venmo-reportedly-blocking-
payments-that-use-the-word-persian.html)

2014: [http://valleywag.gawker.com/venmo-racial-profiling-
account-f...](http://valleywag.gawker.com/venmo-racial-profiling-account-
frozen-for-typing-the-w-1646766081)

~~~
wallace_f
I am aware. Even going back in history, I find most are surprised to know even
Abraham Lincoln really went after journalists and the press.

Anyways, I don't know why I was downvoted. Hopefully not because people
disagree with that hope.

------
sdan
So Paypal is the Cloudflare for money?

~~~
lucb1e
4-5 years ago, didn't they block Wikileaks on a whim?

As for the specific issues you're raising about identity and fees, I'm having
none of those issues, but then I also avoid PP whenever possible so I use it
maybe once every other month.

