
A new census shows how a Brazilian favela works - edward
https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2019/05/30/a-new-census-shows-how-a-brazilian-favela-really-works
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throwawayr1188
Well, in Rio, I believe life in favela truly is horrible for most of the time.
I can think of a few reasons:

\- Lack of decent public education

\- Lack of decent healthcare

\- Lack of basic infrastructure, in a lot of favelas, they don't even legally
have electricity

\- Jobs are scarce, favela's citizens usually endure long commutes under the
very inefficient public transport system to work low-paying jobs

\- Rio's favelas are usually located in hills, when it rains, landslides are
very common, more often than not they are deadly

\- Most favelas are dominated by heavily armed drug dealers (most of their
weaponry are semi-auto rifles coming from the USA), law-abiding citizens often
see themselves under gunfire between rival gangs or cops

\- Citizens are often extorted by drug dealers, or even corrupt cops. They
need to pay a "protection tax" in exchange for basic services

I could go on and on ...

Source: Born and raised in Rio

~~~
scurvy
Curious that criminals would import semi auto rifles from the US when Brazil
has a very large domestic gun maker (Taurus). The Taurus guns should be
massively cheaper. Unless you're referring to the full auto weapons flooded
into South America by the CIA in the 80's. Those I could believe are cheaper.

~~~
xfalcox
Taurus quality control illustrated (turn on the subtitles)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9_YWNo1f-o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9_YWNo1f-o)

~~~
briffle
They are the packard bell of firearms.. I don't miss that desktop company.

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melling
I went to Brazil about 15 years ago. My girlfriend signed us up for a favela
tour in Rio. We had a private guide. It was going pretty well until the police
started a raid. The fireworks went off to let people know the police were
coming. I saw one cop who looked terrified and I saw another shooting
indiscriminately up a hill with his rifle. At first, I wasn’t worried but
everyone around us went behind a truck, so we joined them. After that, the
guide was ready to continue but my girlfriend said we were done.

Our Brazilian friend back in the states said we should have never gone in the
first place. The favelas are run by the gangs. She grew up in one of them so I
assume she knows what she’s talking about.

Fortunately for me, it was my girlfriend’s idea.

~~~
gcb0
Favelas are neighborhoods where lots and lots of families live their everyday
life.

It has crime just like any other place (e.g. a Phd in UCLA mapped gangs in LA,
santa monica and Beverly hills had the most count of gangs and members) but
the police treat favelas as their war ground, causing an artificial firepower
escalation. And the reason is twofold: by twisting public opinion that favelas
only have criminals you can relinquish all forms of state spending (culture,
etc) and you can maintain a tight grip on the local political representation
during elections, and favelas have lots of votes.

In sum, it has nothing to do with the gangs per-se. It's more artificial
public policy.

~~~
ivanhoe
Dunno about US experience, but for someone coming from Europe like me favelas
that I've visited in Rio surely left impression of very dangerous places - and
I grew up in Serbia in 90s, been through wars and all that shit and anarchy,
and had my share of street education. Now, it's quite possible that they have
less crime than some other neighborhoods, but that's just because gangs keep a
close grip on their territory. As long as you play by their rules you can live
your life sort-of normally. Problem with living in such surrounding arrises
when you're forced to go against them, as there's no law to protect you, so
you're fully at their mercy. That's a HUGE difference from Santa Monica or
Beverly Hills, and much more like living in Somalia.

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ascavalcante80
As @throwawayr1188, me too, I'm born and raised in Rio, and I'm very surprised
to see such article on Hacker News.

No doubt, a favela can be a very dangerous place from an foreign, but I
understand the fact that many people are curious to see how it really looks in
its innards, despite this danger. My grandfather lived his entire life in a
favela called Acari in the North of Rio, and I used to go there visit him.
About 50 milles distant from Copacabana, Acari is a shit place with an IDH
lower than some poor countries in Africa. But, as described in The Economist
article, Acari too has a very active economy. You can find all sort of
businesses in there. Of course, I'm not talking about millions of dollars
businesses, but there's an interesting cash flow running inside of the favela.
However it's not enough to make people rich. The life condition in favela are
really horrible. Besides all that has been said here, I have to add on point
that hasn't been mentioned: Favela are extremely noisy places... It's pretty
common bars playing music incredible loud. Besides that, some favelas organise
parties called 'baile funks'. These parties have their pros and cons:

PROS \- people coming from outside (many spend money buying drinks, food,
cigarettes, etc) \- it promotes some fun for young people living in the favela

CONS \- These partie are often organised by drug dealers... it attracts some
drug adds to the location, and cocaine, crack, etc run freely \- The music in
the 'bailes' uses to be extremely loud. As it doesn't have acoustic protection
the entire favela don't sleep during those parties which may go through an
entire week-end. It very bad for those who have to wake up to go work.

My advice, do not visit favelas... The vast majority of its population, I'd
say more than 99,9% of its habitants are honest people, but this 0,1% and
their war with police and other drug dealers represent a real danger for your
life.

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lhorie
Is it really that surprising that large favelas have things like supermarkets?
Yes, there are drug lords and extreme gun violence and illegal electrical
installations, but these slums have been around for decades and are home to
hundreds of thousands of people. Many of these people are not interested in a
life of crime, but simply don't have the means to live anywhere else, so what
else would they do if not slowly build towards a semblance of civilization in
the area where they are forced to live?

~~~
ricardobeat
Yes, it is surprising to see over 3000 illegal businesses in a neighborhood,
working under a violent regime.

Is there a point to your comment we’re missing? It’s a lot more interesting to
discuss the findings, than your impression of people’s impressions on it.

For example, how much cash flows from these business to traffickers.

~~~
divbyzer0
Plenty of legal businesses too, e.g. Bank of Brazil in Rocinha:

[https://goo.gl/maps/pK3K1Lc24fgh7wzv6](https://goo.gl/maps/pK3K1Lc24fgh7wzv6)

When I lived in an affluent part of Rio, I often got my haircut, bought fruit,
veg and groceries in the local slum.

Many locals believed the slums were strictly no-go. While some certainly were,
many were fine. Rather than build a mental barrier around these places, I find
its better to interact.

Common sense, courtesy, some humility are all that are required - that goes
for the high brow malls as well as the favelas.

~~~
namenotrequired
I’d love to do this. I live in SP. How do I know which ones are safe even for
someone with a noticeable gringo look and accent? Whose word to trust?

~~~
divbyzer0
I tend to look at the risk as being relative.

For me, downtown Rio around 'Central do Brasil' bus and train station were far
higher risk than many slums.

Various areas around Rio (and SP) have 'Cracklands' (Cracolândia) with many
crack cocaine users who are frighteningly unstable. Reports describing hold-
ups, with victims cooperating and getting shot - usually in a better parts of
town put things in perspective for me.

Some slums are trying to open to tourism, as a starting point you could look
up well-reviewed bars\restaurants in slums to get an introduction. As the
article suggests, there are many legit businesses in slums, so going to the
ones with a lot of business activity is usually a good bet. The economy of a
slum can only develop if there is a reasonable level of security.

I can only trust my judgement. I have not encountered any problems so far.
YMMV.

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neonate
[https://outline.com/2kMJur](https://outline.com/2kMJur)

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fopen64
Favelas are a mass transit problem. People live there, in bad conditions,
because they are somewhat nearer to their jobs. Otherwise, they would spend
half a day in their way to work.. Renting a 'house' in a favela is more
expensive then renting a good house in small cities.

~~~
marcosdumay
Rio has one of the best public transportation systems of Brazil. What is a
shame really, because yes, it's not that good.

But the urban area goes for dozens of km on every way. Rio is confined between
the sea and the hills, there aren't many places to expand into suburbia.

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mocha_nate
This census is fantastic. There is a ton of work to be done throughout the
world in these informal communities/economies. Documentation, data collection,
analysis...

Also, just an observation, I noticed a lot of these comments here are
tangential to the article.

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ryanmccullagh
Anyone who has never been to Brazil has no right to speak about this topic.
Edit: I see the down-votes, but will stand my ground on this topic.

~~~
diminoten
I've been to Brazil. Stayed in Rio for 5 days. Went to Sugarloaf Mountain and
saw Cristo Redentor. Saw a regional "futbol" match, got drunk and danced the
night away. Never stepped foot into a favela, closest I got was as I flew into
and out of the airport there.

Why do I have a right to speak about Brazilian favelas and a (team of)
reporter(s) whose done dozens (or hundreds) of hours of research on the topic
does not?

~~~
ryanmccullagh
You don't have any right since you've never been to Brazil outside of tourist
context. All the places you've listed are famous tourist attractions. Do you
believe your opinion and views about Favelas actually have merit? If so, on
what basis?

~~~
biesnecker
The point was being made that your "been to Brazil" bar is far too low.

~~~
rexpop
You're committing the same fallacy as the other responder. This bar is THE
LEAST of the thresholds, not THE LAST of them. You're misconstruing the
comments to which you're responding.

