
Forget self improvement - dxvic
http://www.deliberatism.com/editorial/forget-self-improvement/
======
dkarl
_On the other hand, you might consider simply finding what you love, and
letting the rest take care of itself._

Yep, this works great for me. Because I'm never bored by what I love, never
discouraged by what I love, never heedlessly irresponsible about what I love,
never sick of what I love, never resentful of what I love, never scared to
death of what I love. I'm never distracted by what I don't love, never seduced
by what I don't love, never fooled by what I don't love. I'm never foolish in
my love, never shallow in my love, never fickle in my love, never maturing or
changing in my love. And of course I never, ever love more than one thing at a
time.

~~~
nostrademons
I don't think that's really the author's point. I think his point is that when
you find something you love, you will forgive the little aggravations and just
power through them, because they are _part_ of this activity that you love.
You find yourself loving the aggravations as much as the achievement, so that
it's the process that pulls you along.

I'm debugging a double-free in a C library right now. I have basically no
information to go on other than the failing test; ASAN/Valgrind was no help,
and the liberal assertions sprinkled throughout the code aren't catching it.
Many people would say that this is a pretty sucky task, but it is challenging
and engrossing enough that I debated not writing this comment (I'll try and
keep it short so I can return to my work soon ;-)).

That's why people usually use the metaphor of running. Running is hard work;
it is hard on your joints, it is hard on your muscles, it gives you a hell of
an aerobic workout and leaves you sweaty and out of breath afterwards. Yet
many runners (not I) get a high from the process - not from having finished
the race, nor from how fast they finished the race, but just from having run.

~~~
geoka9
> Yet many runners (not I) get a high from the process

I think it's within the grasp of anybody. You just have to learn to enjoy the
pain running (or any other workout) brings. It sounds perverted but it does
help to approach exercise with such mindset.

Now, how to convince yourself to enjoy it, is an interesting question. For me,
the realization that we (as animals) were meant to run much (if not most) of
our waking day did wonders (the aha moment, if you will).

~~~
tete
Even games consist of work. If they don't they tend to be rather boring.

I think it's not good for humanity to be forced to things, because it prevents
them from learning to love them. As an example everyone loves to read books
unless they are for school. Everyone loves to read stuff on Wikipedia unless
it's for university and everyone loves to solve puzzles unless it's to make
money. Well, or you learn to carry over that love.

Seriously, I think all these "get people interested into
math/science/engineering" things wouldn't be necessary if one of the first
experiences wouldn't be to be forced to do it, forced to do lots of boring
homework, to sit still in class listening to the teacher, preventing you from
being outside.

I think the only reason I am into computer science is because I never really
had it in school.

(And now I am studying CS and suddenly history and languages are interesting
as hell)

------
antihero
This is fucking bullshit. In the words of Jake, sucking at something is just
the first step to being kinda good at something. Often when you are bad at
something, you don't enjoy it, often when you are good at something you still
don't enjoy it, but the ability to self-discipline, to get good at something
despite not enjoying it, translates to power over oneself.

If we all just gave up because we didn't enjoy shit initially, nothing we love
would ever have happened.

~~~
suyash
\+ 1, complete BS article, the author seems to have a very naive understanding
of what self-improvement is and what it's benefits are. We can also use self
improvement proven techniques to get at the next level that we aspire.

PS. I'm obsessed with Self Improvement and I've grown a lot using those
techniques.

~~~
antihero
Well the way I see it, self improvement is like playing guitar - initially
it's bloody hard and doesn't make sense and when you do lock down a chord it
takes ages to then play the next one and is a whole mess and is super awkward
and annoying, however, once you get vaguely good at it then it becomes less
about the gruelling learning and more about playing around and enjoying what
you're good at - it's not just a learning exercise, it's something you
understand and can develop in your own sweet way.

Self improvement, learning, guitar skill - nobody, unless you're innately
talented, is something anyone just "slips into" naturally because it "feels
right and is easy" as this article suggests - making the most out of this
pointless spec of time takes hard work, paying attention, taking risks,
learning the hard way, but it's like, deferred gratification...being bored
easily helps (otherwise we'd just devote our lives to the mundane shit
children enjoy), it's a fantastical journey of discovery, and it's not
necessarily easy to reach things that can reward us the most.

~~~
nostrademons
I thought the point of the article was that hard work, paying attention, and
taking risks can itself be fun. Perhaps I'm just projecting my own views onto
the author.

------
Swizec
"Maybe you aren’t supposed to bother with the tedious stuff. Perhaps the
reason you haven’t done it yet, is that you weren’t meant to. "

I don't like being meant to do anything, I choose what I work on and falling
back to "well maybe I wasn't meant to" is using magical thinking and silly
escapism to avoid a simple truth: You. Are. Lazy. And. Procrastinating.

Here's what I suggest to everyone who gets discouraged by some schlep work:
Either find somebody else who will do it, or just get it over with, the sooner
you are done with the enablers the sooner you can get to doing the things you
love.

For instance: Most business owners find it tedious, boring and utterly painful
to do accounting. But accounting is important. They don't say "Well maybe I
wasn't meant to be a business owner", no, they hire a bloody accountant.

~~~
sukuriant
I think this author's point was more of a person that would find working on a
business more interesting but instead is painting right now and hating every
single day that they have to put brush to canvas. Some people find certain
sets of activities more interesting than others. If I were a professional
farmer, I would not enjoy it very much; but there are many people that would.
Similarly, there are people that would find developing or testing software to
be the most boring job they'd ever seen ... and yet I enjoy it.

------
kirse
I mostly agree with the author's message that we spend far too much time
trying to "improve" ourselves through knowledge-seeking, rather than simply
_doing_.

However, simply "doing what you love" ignores the reality that our level of
interest and passion waxes and wanes, and sometimes willpower is needed to
pull us through those times where we're waiting for our feelings to "catch up"
with what our mind knows to be true (that we really do love something). I've
been a runner for two decades now and genuinely love the pleasure of an
intense puke-worthy workout, but some days running doesn't immediately fall
under the category of "doing what I love", until I coax myself to get out
there and take a few steps.

He does touch on another great point, which is man's want for eternal
significance - that desire to be known long after he is dead. It often does
manifest itself as an increasing incline on the treadmill of "achievement".

~~~
kstenerud
"man's want for eternal significance - that desire to be known long after he
is dead"

That's something I've never understood. What does it matter whether you're
known after you're dead? You'd never know anyway since you're dead, and you
couldn't derive any benefit from it since you're dead!

~~~
sukuriant
People fear being forgotten. That their life had no significance or impact on
the world at large. Some people even believe that you live on through the
collective memories of those that knew you and those that you influenced.

------
comlag
"I play tennis for a living even though I hate tennis, hate it with a dark and
secret passion and always have."- Andre Agassi

What if the things you are good at are not the things you love? What about the
opposite? It is too complex to boil down to 'do what you love'.

~~~
the_cat_kittles
What is the point of doing something you are good at if it makes your life
worse?

Andre Agassi is one of the most interesting people, though.

~~~
misterbwong
My guess is that they are doing something that makes life worse in certain
ways and better in others.

------
bithive123
I'm surprised people are even responding to this. How much nuance did you
expect from a 8-paragraph, 18-sentence blog post titled "Forget self
improvement"?

If the author can't be bothered, why should you? I realize 99% of blog posts
are half-baked throwaway propositions like this one but that doesn't mean we
have to validate them with serious rebuttals.

~~~
5xz41s0P8T5N
330 words. I dislike it yet cannot downvote. Time to make some rebuttals to
earn the karma.

------
joeld42
This is good advice, but I think he's missing a distinction between "finding
what you love" and "being good at something". I see a lot of people who seem
to feel a ton of pressure to find what they're good at struggling and becoming
frustrated.

Find something you like to do, even if you don't feel like you're naturally
good at it. Don't worry about being good at it, just make sure it continues to
make you happy and eventually you'll realize that you're better than most.

------
ryanwaggoner
I am so tired of this same idea popping up over and over on the blogosphere.
It's complete nonsense, as other commenters have pointed out. But what makes
me really angry is that it really devalues the hard work of people who do
accomplish amazing things.

"She just won a gold medal in the Olympics? Oh, it wasn't hard for her, she
loves to do it. If only I could just find the thing I really love, I could get
up off this couch and really _make_ something of myself, you know?"

Yeah, I'm sure.

~~~
connortomas
Really? Personally, I think the more people recognise that hard work can
actually be enjoyable, the better. I don't think that recognition devalues the
achievement of those who accomplish amazing things.

At an old job, I used to deal with a co-worker who'd complain continuously
about the work they had to do. I figured they were trying to, in an odd way,
impress us ("Oh, X hates their job - it must be really difficult"). I really
do think some people would benefit from recognising that it's possible to
achieve great things while also finding some form of enjoyment in the work
involved.

And I honestly don't think the Olympian cares what the viewer on the couch
thinks!

------
thesash
Running the marathon is the easy part, it's the training that'll get you. The
vast majority of runs when I'm training for a marathon are not tranquil,
peaceful, or enjoyable. In fact, the runs that matter, the ones that make the
difference between a PR and a disappointing race, are the ones that suck the
most. Forcing yourself to run when you're tired, burned out, have other things
you want to be doing, _that_ is what it means to be a runner. I love to run,
but it would still be a hell of a lot easier to go home tonight and veg out in
the couch instead of getting out and putting rubber to pavement, and that's a
temptation tat hasn't gone away, even after 10 years of running.

Perhaps the lesson isn't "Find what you love", but rather, "Decide what's
worth loving and force yourself to grind your teeth and power through no
matter what". Summoning the grit to power through and do what you love even
when it sucks is what separates the marathoner from the runner that never
steps up to the start line.

~~~
erikpukinskis
_Forcing yourself to run when you're tired, burned out, have other things you
want to be doing, that is what it means to be a runner._

I really respect your approach to running. You sound like someone who likes to
get your times down, ya? I bet you're fast. Good on you.

But I just want to throw out there that there are lots of kinds of runners. I,
for one, do NOT run when I'm burnt out, or have other things I want to be
doing. I run when my body says "mmm... let's go for a run!" I run to get
closer in tune with my body, and to get better at listening to myself. And
when I'm out on the road or the trail, I don't push myself, I just listen. I
get into a groove, and I see how far my body can take me.

I'm never going to be fast, and that's OK with me. That's what being a runner
means to me. I think we all have different reasons for why we get out and do
stuff.

------
9diov
I remember my Aikido club in Uni. At the beginning of every year, we held
welcome tea with flashy demonstration to attract freshmen. The demo always
looked so good that we often got ~40, 50 new members easily. By the end of the
third months, can you guess how many new members stay? On average, 3, f __king
3 out forty something new members. Why is that so? Because the first 3 months
are boring. You stretch and learn to roll. That's it. And it sucks, you look
like a fish out of water, awkwardly trying not to hurt yourself. But the three
who endured all that and stayed, they became permanent members and almost all
went on to become black belts few years later.

What I want to say is that loving something is hard work and usually the
initial period is the hardest. If you don't grind your teeth to overcome this,
you will _never_ find what you love.

------
flyhighplato
It's all very simple. The trick to always succeeding is to take all your
failures and make yourself think they're successes. If you can't fail, you've
got no fear. Being delusional or mentally/emotionally unstable helps.

~~~
shasta
This post was another success for you.

~~~
flyhighplato
I'm a visionary.

~~~
publicfig
This entire exchange read almost exactly like an exchange from the comic
Dilbert, to the point that I still have a bit of a suspicion that it might be.

------
apaitch
Let's say I'm lazy. Sure, maybe I "haven't found what I'm meant to do" quite
yet, but if I'm lazy AND armed with the "I don't want to do it - the universe
is telling me not to!" rhetoric then how will I ever find something I love?
You have to be willing to invest effort into things that hold your interest,
but until you've done something for a while the aspect that holds your
interest is the result and not the process. For example, I didn't get into
programming because I loved programming. I got into programming because I
didn't know what to do and I thought making video games would be cool. After a
couple of semesters (yes, this was late in my life >.<) I realized that hey,
programming is actually quite enjoyable! Now I try to invest in opportunities
for self-improvement in the programming space (among others).

"Self-help books and workshops arm us with ways to trick ourselves into doing
things we perhaps should, but generally don’t want, to do."

That seems like quite a generalization. I get that it's hard to create a
catchy title without making some form of generalization, but... really? I
guess the author is talking about workshops like "How to write and sell your
awesome novel in 7 days", but what comes to my mind when hearing "self-
improvement" is something like the 7 habits. I hardly saw the latter as an
attempt to trick myself into doing things I don't want to do.

------
SatvikBeri
Research heavily contradicts the idea of finding something you love, then
getting good at it-it's usually the other way around (though it's a bit more
complex than just that). Cal Newport recently released a book around this
topic: [http://www.amazon.com/Good-They-Cant-Ignore-
ebook/dp/B0076DD...](http://www.amazon.com/Good-They-Cant-Ignore-
ebook/dp/B0076DDBJ6/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1)

------
thenomad
This article has a good point - better than you'd think from reading the
quotes in the comments.

It's rather easy to fool yourself into thinking that you want to do what
you're currently doing, or the thing that you've already sunk time and effort
into. It's rather easy to fool yourself into thinking you want to be a great
writer, when actually you just want to have people respect you.

A bit of time spend honestly examining whether there's a path you'd rather
your life was taking is rarely wasted - not least because if you conclude that
you're on the right track, it's a good way to quiet nagging doubts.

OTOH, as dkarl says, we don't always feel the same way about what we love,
either, and that's worth remembering too.

------
alexshye
I agree with a bit here (doing what you love) and disagree with a whole lot
more. I'll just make two quick points.

First, self improvement is a broad area that covers many topics. How can the
author discuss one topic, make a vague claim, and then dismiss the whole area?

Second, things in life are rarely black and white. Saying 'forget self
improvement' is like saying 'self improvement is the most important thing in
the world'. Both stick to one end of the spectrum. What is right probably lies
somewhere in the middle of this spectrum, and changes depending upon the
person.

------
npsimons
One thing this article doesn't seem to address is that some things take some
work before you can appreciate them. Most runners don't remember how hard it
was when they were first starting out - how much it hurt and how little
encouragement there was, and no runner's high. Same thing goes for writing: I
doubt anyone reading this can remember how hard it was to learn how to even
read. Some things are an "acquired" taste and take more than simply trying
them out once before making a decision one way or the other.

------
countessa
"On the other hand, you might consider simply finding what you love, and
letting the rest take care of itself."

damned if this isn't the mantra of pretty much every self-help/self-
improvement guru out there. And in writing this, the article basically goes
back on its own premise.

------
dasil003
I disagree. There's usually a difference between the easy and unrewarding
thing that I love and the thing which requires real effort. Sometimes I have
to force myself to write some code instead of play a video game. This is just
the way it is for me. YMMV.

------
elliott99
I kind of read it as this: in light of all the self-help "do the work" type
discourse that's been flying around the internet/HN, maybe think about how
much time you're spending reading that sort of stuff. What does that tell you?

------
AhtiK
Love and hate are emotions taking you away from the real question - is this
the right thing for you to do.

If this one thing is your deliberate decision and goal then forget about
emotions. Just do it.

------
farinasa
I'm gonna go ahead and call bullshit. Enjoying something usually comes after
hating it. Did you love beer the first time you tried it? Coffee? Sushi?
Programming? etc...

~~~
Tipzntrix
I know I loved programming the first time I tried it. The other 3 I still
don't love, and I didn't love them when I first tried them either.

------
ctdonath
The best do it because they can't not do it.

~~~
beebs93
Heh, is that like "Those that cannot do, teach"?

~~~
the_cat_kittles
As I always say- What about those that cannot teach?

------
endlessvoid94
It's the journey, not the destination.

------
frownie
The process is the purpose

