
What Is The Morning Writing Effect? - jxub
https://www.gwern.net/Morning-writing
======
weehobbes
Few thoughts: For me personally, I experience a lot of ego depletion during
the day. But having kids tends to do that. There's no way I can write at the
end of the day, I'm just way to mentally tired. Also as someone who both codes
and writes, writing is far more emotionally taxing. Coding is problem solving
- there is usually a clear path to follow and I generally know when I've
solved a problem. Writing for me is unclear and amorphous. There is almost
never a road map, and I never really know when I've "finished." Finally, I
think that lark/owl stereotypes are overblown. Up through college, I was
absolutely an owl and did my best work from 10pm to 2am. Once I entered the
workforce, I was forced into becoming a lark and after a painful transition,
loved mornings and did my best work from 6am to 10am. 18 years later, I'm
still a "lark" but from time to time, I have to pull late nights and my "owl"
tendencies come back quite easily for short periods of time. But I need 8-9
hours of sleep... I can't do both lark and owl at the same time. I think
studies show that the vast majority of people are in the middle - neither
larks nor owls, and for those people, I believe you can train yourself to be
whichever one you want.

~~~
chrisweekly
I'm reading a terrific book -- "When: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect
Timing"[1] -- that reviews the literature on this exact topic. Recommended.

1\. [http://a.co/hY8eixX](http://a.co/hY8eixX)

~~~
alsetmusic
Is that a URL shortener? Please post the link with a fully disclosed address.
I’d like to see the content on the other end, but don’t know where it’s going
to take me.

~~~
jason_slack
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072Q985YX?ref_=k4w_ss_details_rh](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072Q985YX?ref_=k4w_ss_details_rh)

~~~
ascom
I still have no idea where this link is going to take me.

a.co links always go to some illegible Amazon URL, so I think it’s fine to use
them.

~~~
jason_slack
I guess, but...

1\. You can see it is Amazon

2\. If you click it and are expecting "product A" and instead you see "product
xxx" you probably won't proceed further.

3\. This is Amazons fault, not those that have posted short URL's. There
simple is't a longer URL that says: [http://](http://) amazon.com/this-is-the-
product-you-were-after-just-in-case-you-are-skeptical-of-a-short-url-given-to-
you-byu-someone-you-dont-know-beware-danger-will-robinson.

~~~
fjsolwmv
3\. Whar do you mean?

Example: [https://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics-70UK6570PUB-70-Inch-
Ul...](https://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics-70UK6570PUB-70-Inch-
Ultra/dp/B079TSTB5V/)

~~~
jason_slack
Some urls maybe I guess. I can’t claim that all products Amazon sells don’t
have more descriptive urls.

------
keiferski
It’s fundamentally an anecdotal thing: Kafka, Joyce, Neruda, Eliot, etc. all
wrote at night.

My working theory is something like “romanticism/emotionalism vs. abstract
rationalism”; if you’re writing something that benefits from immediate
experience and emotional input (e.g. Kafka writing about nightmarish
bureaucracy after working all day in an insurance firm) then it is better to
write at night, after the events of the day have happened and your mind has
been operating for 12+ hours.

Alternatively, if you’re working on a large, broad project that requires long-
term, sustained effort and a clear mind, a morning habitual routine is better
for making step-by-step progress.

------
mark_l_watson
I write a lot: probably average writing 1 book every 1 1/2 year over the last
35 years.

This may be key:

“Yet another version might be that sleep itself is the key: sleep, aside from
any resetting, is also responsible for memory formation and appears involved
in unconscious processes of creativity.‘

I find the morning is my best work time for either writing or designing and
writing software. It seems that often good ideas are just there for the taking
in the morning.

That said, I often get the same effect after dinner if I have taken the
afternoon off for leisure (e.g., hiking all afternoon).

~~~
sureaboutthis
> sleep, aside from any resetting, is also responsible for memory formation

When my son was little, he had to memorize the 13 colonies of the United
States for History class. He was getting frustrated that he just couldn't
remember them all. I told him to just read through the list again right before
he went to bed. He did so and came home from school that day to tell me, "It
worked!".

~~~
the_clarence
Better ways to memorize such things: create a story between each colonies so
that you can remember it as a linked list.

~~~
EForEndeavour
Absolutely. And as a bonus, by using historically accurate stories to link
colonies, you'd remember those extra pieces of information "for free."

~~~
the_clarence
I dare you to write us such a story. Remember, it has to be short.

------
sqs
My first question was about how writing prose differs from writing code. The
post covers this:

> despite being apparently similar activities (both mostly involve slinging
> text), the temporal timing of software development & writing are strikingly
> different. Thinking back, I don’t recall early-morning programming being a
> trend among programmers (programmers are infamous for preferring to come in
> late and late-night programming sessions which may wrap around the clock,
> especially in college). It’s fascinating that the stereotypes about writing
> vs programming line up so perfectly with the RescueTime data.

I am very curious to learn/think more about why the 2 activities are
stereotypically (and empirically) on opposite schedules.

Personally, when writing prose (mostly docs, blog posts, and product plans), I
prefer to wake up early and do it in the morning. I much prefer coding at
night. My hunch is that this is because interruptions are rarer at night and
more bothersome when coding.

For anyone else who is both a writer and coder: do you follow the same
schedule for both?

~~~
ahussain
For me, writing prose (mostly short stories, journals, memoirs) is more
emotionally taxing. To write well I need to find ways to silence the self-
censorship that will inevitably prevent me from expressing the things I really
want to say. This often happens when I am in a state approaching mania. Donald
Glover says he writes in the morning because it is "closer to dreaming".

Coding is primarily a task about cognition, so focus/concentration wins. I
find I code best in the late morning, when I'm well rested and have had a good
breakfast.

~~~
nicklaf
_Donald Glover says he writes in the morning because it is "closer to
dreaming"_

This is really the crux of it, in my experience. The first things I write down
in the morning are usually continuations of subconscious creativity that began
in the last dream I had before waking up. And usually my dreams are
emotionally rooted in whatever problem I was solving the night before, which
is especially helpful in making the stimulus of dreams fruitful.

First thing in the morning, my recall is very good, and I am lucid about the
essential concepts needed to explicate what I am really trying to solve in
abstract terms. After hours of working on a problem that's going nowhere? Not
so much. But then a break or evening hike, and I am just as creative again
until bed.

That said, for skilled activities like coding and playing a musical
instrument, the temptation to be too creative before warming up and trying
some experiments can probably only hurt your productivity, because if you sink
your teeth into an idea before figuring out where your real problems are
likely going to crop up, you're just committing to something that's probably
unworkable.

So if I have lots of code to write, I instead simply collect a list of bugs in
the morning that I intend to squash, grab a bite to eat, and then start
hacking away. Then very often, by early afternoon, there's the chance to reach
some kind of minor epiphany, where it becomes painfully obvious that something
simpler can obsolete the need for the kind of hacking done in the morning. ;-)

If you're doing independent research that requires coding AND creative
writing, I recommend going back and forth between the two approaches, perhaps
alternating by day.

------
lordnacho
I buy the third explanation, that sleep is key.

How often do you find yourself thinking about code in your sleep? A lot,
right? And then when you wake up somehow you have some clarity about the
problem to hand. Once you've mucked around a bit and found the solution,
cleaned it up, written some unit tests, and documented it, you're a bit tired.
And the next problem is starting to form without being entirely clear.

~~~
ThrowawayR2
> _A lot, right?_

Can't say I've ever thought about code in my sleep. Is that a common thing
among coders?

~~~
evincarofautumn
I sometimes dream about being & moving amongst the abstract structures that I
build in my head when reasoning about a complex problem. Sometimes it gives me
an insight; others, it’s meaningless, the Tetris effect in another form.

~~~
Jill_the_Pill
Sometimes that is really poor-quality sleep, when your brain is gnawing on a
complex problem.

------
soufron
My own anecdotal evidences:

1\. Waking up early is a great thing. 2\. Waking up early allows you to be
less stressed during the day. 3\. It also projects a halo of confidence around
you since people receive your stuff first thing when they arrive at work. 4\.
But the first thing when you wake up should not be work. You can read the
press, listen to the radio, catch up with the day.... 5\. At some point -
after 30/45m, you'll think it's time to get to work. It's an exhilarating
feeling. 6\. Best time that works for me is 5:30am/6am. 7\. Taking the time to
do some sport after 8am or 9am is even better.

------
dylan604
What timing. Couldn't sleep well, and got up even though it was only 4:15am.
Pop open HN, and this was at the top of the list. When I grabbed my laptop, it
was with the intent of working in Final Draft to work on some things I just
can't seem to get to in normal hours. Makes me feel less grumpy about being
awake, or for procrastinating by reading HN first.

~~~
asplake
Large parts of my second book [1] were written between the hours of 4am and
8am, my wakefulness necessitated by my daughter’s medical issues. Things are
more stable at home now, but on my third book [2] I often feel the urge. I’m
naturally a morning person, and combined with the benefits of writing
uninterrupted, it’s hard to resist, even if it means getting out of bed. If I
didn’t, I’d only be composing in my head anyway.

[1] [https://www.agendashift.com/book](https://www.agendashift.com/book)

[2] [https://www.agendashift.com/right-to-
left](https://www.agendashift.com/right-to-left)

------
Tycho
I suspect there’s a strong selection bias here: nobody likes to admit they are
a slob who doesn’t rise till noon, whereas people will gladly tell you they
follow a Spartan regime and rise before dawn (even if they only manage that
one week per year).

------
nwj
If you read this article and found yourself wishing there was more detail
about the writing routine of each author, then you might like "Daily Rituals:
How Artists Work" [1]. It's a really great small book that goes in detail
through the daily routines of many authors and artists.

[1] [https://www.amazon.com/Daily-Rituals-How-Artists-
Work/dp/030...](https://www.amazon.com/Daily-Rituals-How-Artists-
Work/dp/0307273601)

------
pasbesoin
I'm in circumstances (allergies, noise, etc.) that leave me feeling relatively
poorly in the morning. They can clear somewhat during the day, leaving me
feeling better and clearer headed in the evening -- except that then I'm
fighting tiredness.

I'd suggest it may not just be morning. It may be also how you feel -- then
and at other times. This is my point: That it may not be just time of day, but
also your state of health and well-being at that time of day.

I hope to move to circumstances that leave me feeling better in the morning. I
miss it.

~~~
bitxbitxbitcoin
Anecdotally, moving to the desert and waking up feeling dry and stuffy in the
mornings has reduced my morning writing urges.

------
antirez
I'm a night person but I never write code by night, mostly in the morning.
Because when the day starts I simply have a lot more urgency of doing
something creative. Later in the day I start to be less interested and tired
and want to do less stressful activities.

------
wowamit
Anecdotally speaking, I tend to write well late in the nights -- when
everyone's gone to sleep. I tend to focus well, think throughout the evenings.
I think it also depends on the most distracting-free time. For me, it is late
night.

Can it also be about geography? I am not sure if there is a correlation
between the region an author belongs to and his writing habits. I couldn't
find any reference in shared article.

~~~
pcurve
I'm a night owl so I tend to get more things done at night. However, when I
wake up in morning, I can actually physically feel my brain focused and clear.

Unfortunately once I get to work, that feeling is all gone as the brain tries
to adjust to world of constant context switching between meetings, projects,
and people.

------
inputcoffee
Alternative explanation for modern writers: write then there is less breaking
news.

“Important” news feels important and one may feel more justified in attending
to it.

~~~
bitxbitxbitcoin
As a former beat journalist I can anecdotally attest to this. By number, I've
definitely written about more "breaking news" in the morning than at night.
The content I'd write about at night would invariably have to be more
interesting to me than whatever needs to be written about in the morning due
to personal fatigue more than anything.

------
sytelus
Coincidentally I visited Hemingway's house in Key West just today. The guide
told us that he had made a habit of waking up at 6 AM, move to study room and
wait for 700 words to be written or lunch - whichever comes first. He would
then go out for fishing rest of the afternoon and then in the night go to
nearby Sloppy Joe's bar to mingle with public which often gave him inspiring
story ideas.

Personally, however, the best work I have done is after 5 PM when most people
have left the office. I go out for quick snack, come back to office and go in
to midnight. The chatter around in office, emails etc are too distracting for
full focus.

~~~
CydeWeys
> and then in the night go to nearby Sloppy Joe's bar to mingle with public
> which often gave him inspiring story ideas.

Well let's be honest -- the main reason he went to the bar was to get drunk.
He was a notorious alcoholic.

------
DanielBMarkham
My theory? We think while we sleep. It's not a "normal" kind of thinking, more
free association as your brain wanders around various connections it's made,
testing them out. But I also believe we string together larger concepts. We
just don't remember it.

When you awaken, your mind has all of those new tentative associations and is
ready to try them out by writing them down. As you go through the day, it gets
"cluttered" again, going back to using almost extensively older, tried-and-
true connections.

------
ajkjk
I find that creativity on a subject comes to me when my brain has taken a long
break from it and thoroughly switched to another subject. It makes sense that
sleeping functions to force my brain to look away from something, so when I
return to it I have fresh eyes and new ideas.

Conversely, complicated technical work like coding seems easiest when I've got
it all loaded into my brain. It makes sense that this would be true after a
long day of thinking about it and building connections, but before it
partially unloads overnight.

------
Sir_Cmpwn
Interesting, though little in the way of hard evidence. I personally write in
the evenings, and do an editing pass the next morning. However, I do feel like
I write code better in the mornings than later in the day. When I have an hour
and a half before I leave for work and I decide to write some code, I've found
that I can generally get a lot more done than I expected.

------
chrisweekly
The question of timing -- finding the optimal "when" for various activities --
is an interesting and useful one to study. I'm reading and enjoying a book[1]
that does precisely that.

1\. [When: the Scientific Secrets of Perfect
Timing]([http://a.co/hY8eixX](http://a.co/hY8eixX))

------
fouc
I'd be curious if there's any correlation between morning/night work and
introversion/extroversion. For some reason I imagine extroverted people would
be more likely to work at night than morning.

------
phendrenad2
I find that a day spent hacking away at computer code usually results in a
burst of creative energy right after work. My best -but also silliest -
writing has been done then.

------
ivanstame
Not related to writing but I found that I usually solve problems and bugs the
first thing in the morning. Always thought that's because I am the freshest in
the morning.

