
To tip or not to tip? - sergeant3
http://aeon.co/magazine/culture/tipping-polite-gift-or-demeaning-hand-out/
======
joesmo
"Tipping looks like an anachronistic hangover from a time when restaurant
staff were the lowest of the low"

This is unfortunately still the case in America. I can't believe the author
writes a long, elaborate article mentioning tipping in America without
mentioning the minimum wage for food service in the US. Federally, it's
currently $2.13/hr though employers are required to compensate employees so
they make at least minimum wage ($7.25/hr currently). Waiting jobs are not
minimum wage jobs, however. They require a ton of difficult work and I would
venture to guess that if waiters/waitresses were only paid the typical minimum
federal wage, we'd quickly see a shortage followed by a rise in wages (the
current average wage in the US is $11.82) (Source:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage_in_the_United_Stat...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage_in_the_United_States)).

At least in the US, this is not up for debate until we change the law. Until
the 'to tip' is the _only_ answer anyone who wants otherwise, no matter how
good their intentions, is just greedy. The discussion, at least in the US,
should be framed in terms of legal issues, not customary or other issues.

I think we would do best to change our stupid laws, pay waiters and waitresses
a lot more, and be done with tipping. It really is un-American. But then
again, sadly, so is paying someone a decent wage.

~~~
Kalium
One of the hidden complexities of food service is that tipping often serves as
a tax dodge. Servers often wind up taking home a fair amount of cash but
reporting poverty-grade incomes.

I knew one lady who got a Section 8 voucher this way. She definitely did not
qualify on what she regularly took home.

~~~
waterlesscloud
I've known bartenders who had issues related to this. Not from the IRS. They
rarely seem to bother with service employees who report a "reasonable"
percentage of their sales as tips.

The issues were with lenders, when the bartenders wanted to buy houses. They
had enough income to easily afford the mortgage, but no records that indicated
that. In the end, they dealt with a local lender that understood the
situation, but it was definitely a hassle.

------
grecy
I'm from Australia (no tipping) and have been living in North America for 9
years (always tipping) so this issue is close to my heart.

I've come to see tipping as a form of slavery, the only twist being it's paid
- albeit very lowly.

It's a way for people with money to say "Hey peasant: _If_ you do what I want,
and _if_ I'm happy about it, and _if_ I feel like it, I _might_ give you a
little of _my_ money. Or not".

Sort of like a work contract where the employer has ultimate power and
absolutely no rules to govern if they even have to pay their employees at all.
Of course, there are labor laws against that sort of thing in developed
countries, so tipping is just a way to circumvent those labor laws.

It would be much better if those people were simply paid what they should be
paid by their employer in the first place, and the terms of that were bound by
labor laws.

I personally feel dirty every time I tip - it almost feels like being at a
strip bar or something similar.

(To be clear, I always tip, because the people in those jobs rely on it. It's
not their fault I don't like the system.)

~~~
tptacek
Do you _actually talk_ to service staff about this? Do they tell you they feel
enslaved and demeaned by large tips? I have had this conversation repeatedly,
and not one server has ever told me they felt bad about tips.

~~~
acjohnson55
I don't think the parent poster mentioned anything about large tips. I myself
read complaints about poor tips constantly in my Facebook feed, usually from
the same disgruntled couple of service industry friends of mine. But then
again, I don't think I have that many more friends in the service industry.

As far as I can see, tipping is not adds frustrating unpredictability to their
income, but it also exposes them to discrimination.

As a customer, I find it annoying because it makes paying for my meal a math
problem, particularly when dining in a group.

I see nothing wrong with a true gratuity for stellar service, but when it's
just an unwritten (or written) extra cost, it's absurd. Just charge me what it
costs to pay your service people.

~~~
waterlesscloud
If you left their income solely up to their employers, it would be more
predictable. But it would also almost certainly be considerably lower.

~~~
maratd
> But it would also almost certainly be considerably lower.

No, it wouldn't. It would be exactly the same. Because their employer knows
_exactly_ how much they will get in tips and subtracted that same amount from
their salary. The cost of labor is constant, regardless of how you divide it.

~~~
waterlesscloud
Frankly, you're just flat out wrong on this. If the employer can capture this
income, they will. You're welcome to present evidence otherwise.

~~~
maratd
If the employer captures too much income, the employee quits. That's what
controls the amount the employer can capture and that's the labor wage for the
work. This is econ 101.

~~~
tptacek
Doesn't econ 101 have something to say about Pareto Efficiency, or is that a
later course?

------
readams
This article from the chef at the Linkery (mentioned in TFA) is required
reading on the subject.

I think the fact that there is good evidence that tipping is often racist and
sexist is perhaps the strongest argument against it.

Part 1: [http://jayporter.com/dispatches/observations-from-a-
tipless-...](http://jayporter.com/dispatches/observations-from-a-tipless-
restaurant-part-1-overview/)

Part 2: [http://jayporter.com/dispatches/observations-from-a-
tipless-...](http://jayporter.com/dispatches/observations-from-a-tipless-
restaurant-part-2-money-and-the-law/)

Part 3: [http://jayporter.com/dispatches/observations-from-a-
tipless-...](http://jayporter.com/dispatches/observations-from-a-tipless-
restaurant-part-3/)

Part 4: [http://jayporter.com/dispatches/observations-from-a-
tipless-...](http://jayporter.com/dispatches/observations-from-a-tipless-
restaurant-part-4/)

Part 5: [http://jayporter.com/dispatches/observations-from-a-
tipless-...](http://jayporter.com/dispatches/observations-from-a-tipless-
restaurant-part-5-sex-power-tips/)

Part 6: [http://jayporter.com/dispatches/observations-from-a-
tipless-...](http://jayporter.com/dispatches/observations-from-a-tipless-
restaurant-part-6-why-tipping-should-and-may-be-made-illegal/)

------
eridius
This is a good article, and it goes into detail in the origins of tipping and
why different countries tip differently that I hadn't seen before. But it only
covers the restaurant industry. What about all the other jobs where tipping is
expected? How about jobs where we're unsure whether to tip?

For example, since this is Hacker News, how about all the service industry
startups, such as the transportation companies Uber and Lyft, or Postmates, or
Instacart, or the many others that have sprung up? Of all of these, Uber is
the only one I can think of that explicitly doesn't provide a means to tip.
Most of these companies do offer a way to tip (although they generally leave
the default at $0). When I use one of these companies, occasionally I ask the
driver / delivery person / whoever what the expectation is, and usually the
answer is something along the lines of the tip is completely optional and is
provided because some people explicitly want to tip. But this answer is very
unsatisfying, since I don't know if they're being truthful or if they've been
instructed to tell people it's optional. Ultimately, I'm always left with a
little bit of anxiety about whether I really should be tipping, and if so, how
much is appropriate.

------
fakename
I ate at a restaurant in Berkeley a few weeks ago that doesn't accept tips,
but instead automatically adds a 20% gratuity to your bill. This is a good
first step, but I wish they would go one further and increase the price of
menu items by 20%, rather than separating the prices.

~~~
dyadic
I like seeing the service included in the bill, it makes it explicit that it's
a separate thing from the dinner and something that I'm paying for.

~~~
pavlov
So how about separate charges for cleaning and accounting?

The restaurant pays for a lot of other things too that are not directly part
of the dinner. I don't understand why service should be considered special.

~~~
waterlesscloud
Because the service is a direct and prominent factor in your experience of the
meal.

~~~
jeremysmyth
So are the ingredients, the recipe, and the individual elements of the
cooking. I also personally rate restaurants on the comfort and style of the
furnishing, the "ambience", the location, and events, if any (a Lebanese
restaurant I like occasionally has a belly dancer).

None of these are separately itemized on my bill, nor would I expect them to
be.

------
rascul
From what I've seen, almost all restaurants where servers are tipped also pay
those servers something low like $3/hr. I don't like tipping, but I don't like
shorting them the money they're counting on to survive.

~~~
heyheyhey
>From what I've seen, almost all restaurants where servers are tipped also pay
those servers something low like $3/hr.

This isn't true for every state.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage_in_the_United_State...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage_in_the_United_States)

------
nemo1618
As someone who's both received and given tips, I love them. Why? Because
they're a dead-simple way to convert money to happiness. When I received a big
tip, it always brightened my shift a bit. And now, every time I go out to eat,
I know that I can do the same for someone else.

~~~
efewf
Do you stand in the street and give people money? You can buy other's
temporary happiness there too.

~~~
amyjess
I like tipping high on servers and bartenders who have been exceptionally nice
to me.

If someone is just friendly and helpful way beyond the call of duty, I'll
probably drop a 25% tip in their lap just because if somebody makes my day, I
want to make their day in return.

And then there was when my favorite bartender left his job at my favorite
bar... I think I tipped almost 50% on his last night as a parting gift.

------
gmays
I typically tip quite generously (20-25%), but I hate the idea of tipping. I'd
much prefer it was just included in the bill.

What bugs me the most is that it makes me stop and think about what to tip,
which is why I always tip around the same amount.

I also don't always know when to tip. For example, I have a house cleaner
coming this weekend. Is it customary to tip a house cleaner?

------
bgilroy26
To tip!

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQPIgm2FpU0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQPIgm2FpU0)

~~~
edroche
Reservoir Dogs was what popped into my head when I saw the title.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-qV9wVGb38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-qV9wVGb38)

------
crimsonalucard
I have no problem with a society that tips regularly and normally. My problem
is what happens when you don't tip.

------
ilaksh
Tipping should go away, since it is a classist holdover tradition, but not
until wages in tipping countries increase significantly, and that depends on
overall economic health and structures.

I think people consider not tipping mostly because of depressed economic
conditions or situations and then they rationalize it.

------
joshmn
I waited tables for a while at a range of restaurants from very nice
steakhouses to exceptionally-high-profile clubs. I'm open to questions about
my experiences with tipping, horror stories, weird guests, and my genuine
thoughts on the matter.

~~~
ghrifter
If you have a repeat customer that is nice, but doesn't tip (or tips very
poorly, like say 5%) does the staff treat him with less quality?

~~~
joshmn
These do exist, and they always receive warm welcomes. They're considered like
family.

