
Can TikTok be banned from US based Android devices? - bluegopher
https://raccoon.onyxbits.de/blog/trump-ban-tiktok-wechat-usa/
======
zmmmmm
Half of this rationale seems to assume that TikTok can't modify the app to
work independently of Play Services. But that is completely something they
could do. In fact, I'd assume they have a Chinese version already developed
with separate infrastructure. Not sure why it is assumed that is so hard. It
would be fascinating to see what would happen if a super popular app like that
went all in on a side loaded distribution mechanism.

~~~
patrickaljord
Another issue is that TikTok relies on advertising for revenue and if US
companies are banned from doing business with TikTok, they would need to run
the app at a loss in the US at least. They could use their revenues from the
rest of the world and the Chinese government to survive in the US. Not clear
how that would affect TikTok sponsored influencers.

Either way, the US could order ISPs to block TikTok servers, this would
require a VPN and would kill TikTok for normies.

~~~
zmmmmm
> Either way, the US could order ISPs to block TikTok servers

Do you think there is any legal mechanism by which they can actually order
ISPs to block a server? While blocking financial transactions has plenty of
precedent, I'm not sure there is any for straight up blocking communication
which looks a lot more like free speech. Especially with no basis in evidence
to support actual wrong-doing.

~~~
lotsofpulp
Based on what I've seen in the past few decades, all you need to say are the
magic words "national security" to justify anything and everything.

~~~
patrickaljord
I wouldn't say "national security" are the magic words. When Trump tried the
Muslim ban it was overturned, same for building the wall which was justified
by "national security".

I think the magic happens when the issue is bipartisan, which is the case here
as both parties are anti-China. When an issue is supported by both parties
then it will pass 100% with no obstacles from the constitution or any laws.

------
on_and_off
Site doesn't open.

I wonder how this would work ? Google can for sure remove an app from the play
store and maybe even remove it from play services enabled phones.

If I am European and travel (in some hypothetic future where it is possible)
to the USA, does tiktok get removed from my phone ?

Edit : I can open now. Some notes re : different apks for sideloading. I don't
know if the author is being malicious here but they are inventing problems
that don't exist. Yeah, there can be multiple apks for a given app (that's the
main idea behind app bundles). However if you distribute your app yourself you
either

\- provide an universal apk that will install on all devices. It will be way
larger since it needs to incorporate all the different possible
configurations, but is trivial to make for a dev.

\- detect the user device config and provide a download link tailored to that
device. I guess tiktok is popular enough to go that route, but that's just a
minor engineering point.

Also wow, very classy to insult people who use an app. Of course if you don't
like a service people who do have to be dumb.

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imglorp
I'm concerned about the precedent of the government getting involved in app
censorship on ideological grounds.

Today TT, tomorrow whatever the Party or our Dear Leader doesn't find
complimentary?

~~~
gameswithgo
if we didn’t put up with centralized stores on mobile this wouldn’t be a
practical possibility for the government to ban things. now for us to get an
app to our users we have to be sure the dear leader apple/google AND dear
leader government both approve.

------
sheeshkebab
Devices - no, but it sure can be removed from Play Store entirely (not just
US), and banned from using all US based cdn’s and hosting providers... pretty
much killing it.

~~~
liopleurodon
Actually, it seems like they can delete it from devices. FTA it's just a push
notification :(

~~~
bluegopher
Yep, they can. AFAIR this feature was used once in the past after a court
order to delete an app that was very popular in south america (brazil?), but
contained a nasty sideload.

I can't find an an article backing this up though.

~~~
sillysaurusx
Wait, really? That seems ... very unexpected. Can anyone confirm, ideally with
some sort of proof, that Google can delete apps from your phone on demand?

I suppose Apple has this ability too. I've never really thought about it.

~~~
tetrahedr0n
I think I can help provide some proof.

First - the article talks about the message delivery via push notification.
The push notification is, essentially, a JSON object.

The relevant notification for push/delete would be something like:

    
    
      notificationType: 2
      docid {
        backendDocId: "com.zhiliaoapp.musically"
      }
    
    

Second - ADB itself, of course, provides a command for removal of an app. Only
requirement would be permissions. If working direction with a console on
target device, that command is going to look like this [1]:

    
    
      pm uninstall -k --user 0 [package name]
    
    

Third - Google playstore has the permissions required to read and write to the
phones filesystem. I can't find this explicitly stated, but I'm sure someone
else will link to some documentation showing this is true.

Fourth - Kinda makes everything else a moot point, google play apps are served
by google clouds (the author mentions this as well), so even if google
couldn't remove the app from the phone, it could essentially cut the cords to
the APIs and render the app useless. [2]

1 - [https://jimcofer.com/2019/02/18/uninstalling-android-apps-
vi...](https://jimcofer.com/2019/02/18/uninstalling-android-apps-via-adb/)

2 - [https://developer.android.com/guide/playcore/dynamic-
deliver...](https://developer.android.com/guide/playcore/dynamic-delivery)

Final thoughts: The author touches on this, but I don't think anyone really
knows the answer. Google _can_ remove TikTok, but will they (they haven't yet,
right? lol)?

EDIT: formatting and final thought

~~~
marctrem
> The push notification is, essentially, a JSON object.

It’s a proto message, to be more precise.

------
4cao
Not sure what the article says (doesn't open for me at the moment) but to
answer the question:

Access to Play Store apps can be restricted to certain countries. Such apps do
not appear in search results. So it's possible for Tik Tok to disappear for
anyone looking to install it in the US, or with a US-based Google account.

However, as long as a device allows sideloading (installing apps from other,
"unknown" sources), and most of them do, it's debatable whether it could be
banned from people's _devices_.

Google has some mechanisms to counter malware (Play Protect) but these are
supposed to be used against "harmful" apps. It's debatable whether they would
want to be involved in enforcing these restrictions this way.

It might be difficult for most users to follow the instructions to sideload an
app, however there was the precedent with Fortnite, where users were asked to
download it directly from fortnite.com/android (or use a QR code), and it
seems to have worked. As far as I recall the Fortnite app was also preloaded
on some phones.

The real difficulty for ByteDance might be something else altogether: namely,
if the US prohibits doing business with the company, and the US users could no
longer be monetized. Such a restriction would be very difficult to work
around.

------
liopleurodon
Great article. This answered a lot of questions that I was wondering about.

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Sargos
Yes it can due to all phone apps being funneled through only 2 corporations.
Until we get a more open mobile platform and a more decentralized mobile app
store then governments have easy access to strict controls over what apps we
are allowed to use.

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CreepGin
So, how does China ban things like Youtube and Facebook? Both on the app store
level and IP/Firewall level?

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nzha
Couldn't the US government tell the cloud providers that TikTok uses
(supposing they are American as well) to stop serving requests from American
IP addresses?

TikTok could serve those requests from China but serving video from China
would make the app unusable.

------
Firebrand
>Let’s be very clear here. I am not a fan of TikTok. I had the misfortune of
coming across it when it was still called Musically and I had to explain to a
little girl that she, unlike her friends, was not allowed to dance for
strangers. That ruined an otherwise perfect evening.

I realize this isn’t the main point of the post but I’m very surprised this is
pretty much an accepted thing now. I would have thought the Trump
administration or the media would weaponize the potential exploitation of
children and turn a complex geopolitical struggle into a moral panic for the
public to more easily understand.

------
pjc50
If you're missing Tiktok content, open the Instagram search tab and you'll see
all their "reels" ... complete with tiktok watermarks in the corner.

(this is a joke, but seriously I see quite a lot of them are just reposts; I
believe the tiktok video editor is still best in class, although I've never
tried it)

~~~
kevingadd
Yeah, reposted Tiktok videos show up on Twitter nonstop as well. At least
they're watermarked with the original author's name...

