

When valuable employees quit or resign - danielodio
http://danielodio.com/uid/80627

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svmegatron
This advice describes a terribly one-sided situation:

    
    
        Although two weeks notice is standard, give more notice
        if you're willing to. Give four or even six weeks. The
        only caveat here is that if the CEO reacts poorly when
        you give notice, you might find yourself escorted out
        of the building that very moment.
    

Please (especially recent grads, I'm talking to you here) don't let yourself
buy in to the "the employee should be loyal to the company, but not expect
loyalty in return" trope that is all too common. Your job (in most cases!) is
not a matter of loyalty for either party. It's a business arrangement between
two consenting parties that work be performed for pay. There is almost always
a built-in part of that arrangement to facilitate a smooth ending.

By all means, act professionally and with integrity in your dealings with your
employer. But remember your job is not a favor they are doing you.

------
optimusclimb
You've GOT to be kidding me with this.

"No surprises: Even worse than leaving is giving little or no notice. Then the
company has to scramble to fill the immediate void. Although two weeks notice
is standard, give more notice if you're willing to. Give four or even six
weeks. The only caveat here is that if the CEO reacts poorly when you give
notice, you might find yourself escorted out of the building that very moment.
So you have to be ready for that. But hey, if you wanted to go anyways, then
that might be OK with you."

So you should do the "right thing" for the benefit of the CEO who probably
holds 10-30+% of this company compared to your 0.0X%, but willing to accept
that they may insta-can you because they "react poorly" to this news.

Many people in this position may truly want to give 2,3 or even more weeks
notice out of guilt, but they ALSO might financially really need not to have
that income gap. Logic (or call it good business) would dictate that in that
financial position, you give a standard two weeks notice and hope that if you
DO get escorted out, they at least pay you out for the two weeks.

The author's take on this is "you have to be ready for that"? I don't get it.

~~~
vinceguidry
You really shouldn't be considering job-hopping if you can't absorb two weeks
of lost income.

This article isn't talking about low-class, factory work where most employees
are living paycheck-to-paycheck. This is the middle class, and you're expected
to bring a little stability to the table. If you can't do that, it's your
fault, not your employer's.

~~~
optimusclimb
Let me put it this way - It's not that you can't absorb the two weeks loss
without going into bankruptcy. It's the fact that for a "regular" employee,
losing 1/26th of your yearly income may be something you'd really prefer to
avoid - and the loss may be disproportional to what the company stands to lose
by canning you immediately despite you trying to "do the right thing" and give
extra notice.

I think it's not crazy to say that many small companies may have even more
motivation to make that move, as they don't want the morale drain on the other
employees imposed by having someone around that has one foot out the door.

Because back of the napkin math is fun, let's say we're talking SF, a bright
kid <2 years out of college that loves reading HN and decided she wanted to
try the startup thing. They joined a startup as an early employee, but maybe
past the first 3, and have a few basis points of equity, and took a salary of
$100k/year instead of a fat offer twitter gave them for the opportunity to
wear many hats and learn a lot.

Using this page

[http://www.adp.com/tools-and-resources/calculators-and-
tools...](http://www.adp.com/tools-and-resources/calculators-and-
tools/payroll-calculators/salary-paycheck-calculator.aspx)

and plugging in a gross yearly income of $100k for CA, that gives me a bi-
weekly pay of $2,441.23.

That's easily a month's rent, which I'd posture is NOT trivial for a person in
this situation. Absorbable? Totally, but NOT something it'd be a good idea to
risk from a business perspective.

~~~
vinceguidry
> Because back of the napkin math is fun, let's say we're talking SF, a bright
> kid <2 years out of college that loves reading HN and decided she wanted to
> try the startup thing.

Call up dad and ask for some cash to float you until your next payday. Your
career will thank you when you don't externalize your rash decisions on your
colleagues. Or did you move to SF for a dream with absolutely no safety net?

But whatever. If you're really in that position, sure, go ahead and fuck the
people who took a chance on you and trusted you to build their business. If
you're that scared they're going to turn around and fire you on the spot for
taking another job, then be my guest.

But don't expect me to pat you on the back and say you did good when you're
really just demonstrating a lack of foresight and a lack of faith in your
coworkers / bosses.

I don't do business that way. My last job, I busted my ass to finish the
project they gave me, even working on the weekend when I didn't have to,
during the two weeks I gave notice. I told the guy who I was handing it off to
to call me anytime if he needs any help.

If they'd just let me go, no sweat, I've got backup options. But generally, I
don't take jobs anymore where my work isn't essential and I'm fungible. You
shouldn't either, then you won't have to face this situation. If you're not
damn useful to your organization, then what the hell are you there for then?

------
kevinthew
Never, ever give more than 2 (or 3 weeks if you're like senior staff) weeks
notice. It's not your obligation to make sure the company is run well. You
should also look out for yourself because no company will ever look out for
you despite what you tell yourself. This is a shitty article.

~~~
fsckin
This. What company acting in their best interest would give any sort of notice
before a layoff? Maybe a frank discussion that things aren't going according
to plan and we only have X months of runway, but that's about it.

~~~
iends
The large companies I've worked for have done layoffs like "Surprise, we're
laying you off in 6 weeks..." which is better than not telling you.

~~~
greenyoda
I've seen large companies lay off workers, some of whom have been with the
company for many years, with no notice at all.

------
brey

      Although two weeks notice is standard, give more notice
      if you're willing to. Give four or even six weeks
    

I question why this should be asymmetrical.

If it were the other way round, and it was to the company's advantage for you
to leave as soon as possible, how many CEOs would give three times as much
notice as they were contractually obliged to?

~~~
vinceguidry
Because when what you're offering is more fungible than what the other party
is offering, then you have greater discretion to set terms. In other words,
since the employer is buying a service from the employee, the employer gets
the say.

If you went to a store to buy fruit, and they would only give you the fruit
two weeks after you bought it, you'd walk out. You've got the cash, so they
need to meet your timeliness terms, not the other way around.

------
ericdykstra
If 2 weeks isn't enough time, then why does the contract say 2 weeks? Instead
of expecting one side to go above and beyond what's laid out in the contract
(as many have said, the 2 weeks notice is a very asymmetrical part of the
contract already), why not write it into the contract instead? Have incentives
for employees to give 4 or 6 weeks notice, and maybe offer something back on
the other side, like an employer-guaranteed severance of 4 weeks pay for any
reason of termination that's not something like stealing from the company,
etc.

When you start making blanket statements about "you should always give
[something]," then maybe it should be contractual rather than an "unwritten
rule."

------
greenyoda
" _As a CEO it 's really hard to understand why an employee doesn't have the
same commitment._"

Seriously? Let me spell it out:

The CEO has a significant amount of stock, unlike most employees, so the
success of the company makes a big difference to the CEO. To the employees, it
might translate into less money than they can get by changing jobs.

And to the employees, it feels like _they_ have more commitment than the CEO.
As jwz pointed out[1], the employees sleep under their desks but the CEO goes
home at night.

[1] [http://www.jwz.org/blog/2011/11/watch-a-vc-use-my-name-to-
se...](http://www.jwz.org/blog/2011/11/watch-a-vc-use-my-name-to-sell-a-con)

------
nieve
Oddly enough the original question is what a CEO can do, but after discussion
how hard it is for the CEO emotionally the all of the specific advice is aimed
to the valuable employee who's leaving. I'm not clear on how exactly the post
author missed the point of the question so impressively and then submitted it
here - perhaps he couldn't think of anything else to write in response? The
tips for the employee are good, though a bit patronizing and basic, but it's
not exactly very useful to a CEO. I've been on both sides of that table
(though as manager for the employee who was leaving, not CEO) and post that
actually answered the question would have been more than welcome. It's usually
too late to keep the employee when they're resigning, but there's often some
room for a positive relationship when they leave. In my experience keeping up
morale, keeping a potentially valuable contact (you wanted to them for some
reason, right?) available, avoiding a reputation hit with other potential
hires & partners, and maybe being able to tap them for tribal knowledge or the
occasional bit of consulting is well worth a lot of effort for the CEO. How
you do that tends to be a bit less clear...

------
nikatwork
> _As a CEO it 's really hard to understand why an employee doesn't have the
> same commitment._

Oh lawdamercy, cry me a river. Getting a new job is a PITA, and most employees
aren't going to jump without very strong reasons.

    
    
      1. they got another offer to good to refuse. You should be happy for them. 
      2. the company does not feel financially stable. That's your fault, bubs.
      3. they're being treated badly or morale has flatlined -
         that's definitely your fault, twinkletoes.
    

This article is essentially telling the departing employee to bend over, for
free. Good one.

Here's some _better_ advice to a CEO:

    
    
      1. don't take it personally
      2. give the employee an opportunity for an exit interview *with you*. 
         Don't fob the job off onto some underling. 
         While some departing staff will decline as they don't want to 
         burn imaginary bridges, most passionate staff will give you an 
         unvarnished look at the company.
      3. talk to other seniors in the company and try to determine if the 
         problem is individual or systemic.

------
a3n
Two weeks, unless you have an exceptional relationship with the company. If
you aren't _sure_ your relationship is exceptional, then it isn't, so don't
worry about it.

You'll be forgotten in three weeks.

------
RougeFemme
For those who periodically ask why a start-up needs someone with HR skills,
here's a good example. While the HR person may not be _needed_ , the HR person
can handle things like release forms, exit interviews, care and feeding of the
remaining employees, etc. -- the first 2 may not be required, but "care and
feeding" certainly is.

Some CEOs can handle this, but most probably can't, due to time or
temperament. Some companies may not need this, but most probably do. . .at
least to help with the initial shock and/or readjustment(s).

------
Suro
I'm in France right now and the usual legal notice here is a ... 3 month
notice. This is a double edged sword: unless common agreement, the employer
have to pay the employee 3 month (and if asked, the employee has to stay at
work), but it gives him the time to replace it properly. I won't go in detail
to the different legal issues for each case, but it avoids these kind of
problem for startups (and create others).

