
Ask HN: Have you moved to a less technical role after failing as a developer? - J-dawg
After a few years of working as a frontend developer, I&#x27;m trying to come to terms with the realisation that I have very little aptitude for writing code.<p>I seem to lack any kind of problem solving ability. I can get stuff done when it fits standard patterns&#x2F;boilerplate, but anything more difficult and I fail quickly and give up.<p>I seem to have got by for the last few years by being likeable enough that people are happy to pair with me and basically do the work for me.<p>I&#x27;ve realised it&#x27;s affecting my self-esteem pretty badly. I almost never go home feeling like I&#x27;ve achieved anything. I&#x27;m scared of not being able to find work in the future. This is in contrast to the people I&#x27;ve worked with who always seem very optimistic about finding new roles etc. I&#x27;m not young either (approaching 40) and have no other skills.<p>I&#x27;m starting to think my best hope is to try to stay in this industry but move into something like business analysis or product management. I&#x27;m quite concerned about how such a move would be perceived. If I was hiring I&#x27;d run a mile from someone who wanted to change careers simply because they failed at their last one. Is there a way to spin this into something positive?<p>I would love to hear if anyone else has gone through what I described and managed to move into a different role, and how you managed to spin your situation and emphasise the positives.
======
was_boring
Here's the secret -- a good team is built around people who are solidly
dependable. What that means is you can give a reasonable estimate for the
work, are a positive person, and aren't too much of a bother to anyone. The
team is pushed forward in meaningful ways by the really ambitious and smart
ones, but they tend to move on quickly after becoming bored. These people are
great to have while they are there, but they leave so often that it feels like
a revolving door.

But that employee who I can give work to and depend on to be there in a year
plus time frame? That's the one a good manager goes to bat for during the
tough times.

------
sevilo
Have you worked at more than one place in your Developer career? Sometimes it
could just be you don’t enjoy what you’re doing on the current job. For
instance, I previously did some DevOp-at/infrastructure work and I really
questioned my technical ability, but once I got back to front end development
again I felt energized by my work, my self confidence went up, and I have more
genuine interests in learning more about it. It could also be you just don’t
enjoy the type of development you’re doing. There are many paths to go even
for technical roles.

------
plondon514
Is it possible to take on other kinds of tasks at your current company? No
company is perfectly efficient, so figure out where they are struggling to
perform and lend a helping hand. Best case scenario is you realize you're
quite good at whatever you try doing, worst case scenario is you've helped out
another team.

------
badpun
Have you ever completed any sort of ambitious project on your own? Let’s
10-50k lines of code, that correctly does something nontrivial? If yes, then
you’re suitable for the job. If not, you should perhaps try it (it will
require leaving the job for a while). If you genuinely cannot complete it,
then you have your answer, but if you can, it will give you lots of skills for
the next role (you learn much more when doing things on your own vs being in a
team) as well as a confidence boost.

------
muzani
I'm sort of going through this dilemma. I'm not a superstar level and probably
do better in other roles.

One trick is to go into teaching. It requires considerably less problem
solving skill. You just solve a set of problems once then reuse that solution
for the next class. You'll still have enough industrial experience to teach
better than most.

One thing I'm trying is to switch to similar but junior technical roles. Try
game development maybe, or something like testing, system analysis, support.

------
growlist
There are plenty of tech roles where you don't have to be a superstar dev but
can't still make out fine. Support is a good one - sneered at by many but
actually incredibly important and can be really fulfilling in the right role
(granted low level support roles can be horrendous). So many users get shit
support that if you really put them first they will come to love you. There
are also roles that combine support with a bit of sys admin, service engineer
type roles. Can be well paid on the contract side of things.

If you are or can learn to be creative and enthusiastic and personable,
presales can be fun. In most presales roles the emphasis is on broad rather
than deep skills, so that might suit you. For me presales was brilliant
because it forced me to confront my fear of public speaking.

Finally I've met loads of successful people in my career that cheerfully admit
they couldn't hack the technology side of things. Chin up!

~~~
apohn
>I've met loads of successful people in my career that cheerfully admit they
couldn't hack the technology side of things. Chin up!

I think one nuance is that some people don't have the interest/skills to be a
developer, but a number of people are decent developers but they get tired of
the environment developers exist in. So when they say "I coudn't hack it as a
developer" it wasn't so much about skills as much as personality.

------
hluska
First off, this is a personal question so you don’t have to answer it, but I
encourage you to think it over. How are you doing mentally/emotionally? I
don’t know you so can’t make many guesses as to your writing style, but you
sound really seriously down on yourself.

I bring that up because career transitions aren’t uncommon, but you need some
confidence to make it happen in an interview. There is a huge difference
between “I failed” and “I am better suited to something else.”

If you’re in the middle of it and feel like shit, it’s hard to see your gifts.
But from an outsider’s point of view, being likeable enough that others will
gladly help you is a major strength. Add in some above average technical
skills and you’d be fucking dangerous in all kinds of roles. You’re even a
good writer - it’s a tough subject but you conveyed emotion and a strong
voice.

Best of luck and be safe.

~~~
J-dawg
Hi,

Thanks for taking an interest in my question. It’s truly appreciated.

I had to laugh at your comment about being down on myself as I’ve heard the
same thing from several people, including colleagues. I was trying to steer
away from from that self-pitying tone but I guess it still came through!

So yes, confidence has been a huge problem for me, and probably the biggest
barrier to overcome if I’m ever going to get a more “business facing” role.

I’m seeing a therapist and trying to do something about it, but changing an
entire personality seems to be pretty tough.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

~~~
hluska
Thanks for writing me back!

I’m glad that you’re seeing a therapist and since you’re seeing someone, I’m
quite concerned about contradicting you. However, I don’t agree that your post
was self pitying. It was well written, balanced and showed a heck of a lot of
insight into yourself. If that’s self pitying, I know a lot of people (myself
included) who could use a good dose of self pity.

As far as confidence, it sounds like you’ve been through a heck of a lot.
Thanks to my own meandering experience, I understand how job stress can sap
away at your confidence.

Again, I don’t know you from Adam, so take this as you will, but I’m an
outsider and can see a whole lot of strengths. As I mentioned, you’re an
excellent writer. In a few hundred words, you have managed to convey some
interesting parts of your personality. For one, you strike me as a heck of a
nice person. Second, you have one heck of a lot of insight into yourself.
Third, I have an immense amount of respect for how you don’t blame anyone or
make excuses. That shows a tremendous strength of character.

Finally, you’re fucking brave. Seeing a therapist is damned hard. Coming on
here and being as open as you have been is damned hard as well. At this point,
courage will only serve you well.

Between those things, I honestly wonder if you’re perhaps better than you
think. You strike me as one of those glue developers who may not be the
strongest IC, but who multiplies your team’s performance.

But, assuming that you’re correct and you’re not as good as you would like, if
I were in your shoes, I would focus on positive things and start writing some
cover letters. If your personality shines on a cover letter as it does on this
thread, I might be asking you for a job in a couple of years. :)

------
apohn
There are a lot of people who realized being an SWE/Developer was not the
right choice for them. This is for lots of good reasons - not having enough
interaction with other people, feeling too insulated from the outside world,
not liking the day-to-day life of a developer, etc.

I've worked with ex engineers who are now in Sales, Marketing, Support,
Management (Product and People), Education, etc. Some of them are amazing at
what they do. One of the best developers and I know moved to the education
team in their software company because they got tired of what it meant to be a
developer. In that education team they can't release crap just because
somebody decided to release something quickly - this was something they got
disillusioned with as a developer.

You haven't "failed" as a software developer. You're probably just realizing
that being a software developer may not be a fit. Nobody will fault you for
changing to a different role. Anybody who has worked for longer than 5 years
knows that after some point you need new and different challenges. Nobody will
see you as a failure unless you say "I failed as a software developer so I
want to do something else." Say "I've been doing this for a line and I want to
do something different. Since I was a developer, these are the strengths I
bring to the role versus somebody who has never developed anything in their
life."

I say this for myself. I enjoy writing code and I think I'm a decent
developer. But the thought of being behind the firewall (basically where I
only interact with other people in Engineering, not users) of an Engineering
Org just doesn't sit well with me. That's how I ended up in Data Science,
where I interact with a lot of people and still write code.

A long time ago I took a career counseling course and the teacher (A PhD
researcher in Career Counseling) said people typically change their careers 6
or 7 (don't remember the exact number) times in their life. It was hard for me
to understand at the time, but after many years of working it makes sense.
Some people change their career 5 times over 20 years at the same large
company.

------
silversconfused
I've been hearing more and more as time goes by that development skills don't
always necessarily include actually writing code. Following a shared process,
breaking problems down, collaborating to find potential solutions, and
evaluating the merits of candidate solutions are all "software development"
but not "coding". You're on a team. The team has diverse talents. It's totally
different than sitting alone in your basement writing the next hit indie game
where you are the only one that can or will do any of it.

Have you asked the good coders you've paired with if they enjoy coding with
you? Maybe you're a lot more useful and talented then you think.

------
bobblywobbles
Honest question - how do you go 40 years and realize this now? I assume you've
been doing this for your whole working life.

~~~
J-dawg
I came to programming pretty late, a few years ago. So I haven’t been doing
this my whole working life.

