
China’s Giant Market for Really Tiny Cars - prostoalex
https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-giant-market-for-tiny-cars-1537538585
======
rasz
France has VSP (voiture sans permis)
[https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35210572](https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35210572)
, Italy had something similar for age 14 and up.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorised_quadricycle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorised_quadricycle)

China is simply getting more wealthy. Eastern europe went thru similar
transition after the end of Russian occupation (1989). In Poland we had Fiat
126p selling at similar ~$1500 in 1992. Very popular due to price, but soon
replaced by $2500 Fiat Cinquecento in 1992 as most popular, then Tico,
Seicento, and Lanos. It went bigger and more expensive with time, Fabia, Panda
and finally Octavia being the most popular cars.

Chinese dont buy those cars because small and electric, they buy them because
thats all they can afford.

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Tiktaalik
Meanwhile in North America we have a arms race where everyone is buying bigger
and bigger trucks for "safety" reasons, even though they're proven to be more
wildly more lethal to pedestrians in collisions.

There's no end in sight and I don't know how we turn around from this trend,
but I do feel that NA cities would be a lot safer and more efficient if we and
our cities were trending toward the compact sort of small kei cars (and
compact, thin streets) that they have in Japan.

~~~
syntaxing
Agreed, but I am not sure how receptive small cars are in the Americas just
from a practicality point of view. I've sat in many vans/sedans and they feel
much more cramped. My family tends to have a significantly smaller frame and
we still feel cramped. I cannot imagine a typical American family fitting
comfortably in there for a 10+ hr roadtrip.

~~~
romwell
>I cannot imagine a typical American family fitting comfortably in there for a
10+ hr roadtrip.

From my experience, a Honda Fit is more than enough for 2 people + more stuff
than two people may possibly need for a week-long road trip. And it's the same
length as a VW Beetle New.

The average US household size is about 2.5[1], and the median is 2[2]. Again,
to emphasize: over _half_ the country are either living by themselves, or with
_one_ other person.

So, a _typical_ American family would do well with a subcompact.

[1][https://www.statista.com/statistics/183648/average-size-
of-h...](https://www.statista.com/statistics/183648/average-size-of-
households-in-the-us/)

[2][https://www.statista.com/statistics/242189/disitribution-
of-...](https://www.statista.com/statistics/242189/disitribution-of-
households-in-the-us-by-household-size/)

------
neonate
[http://archive.is/OU42o](http://archive.is/OU42o)

~~~
harias
Adding outline.com before the actual URL works oo :
[https://www.outline.com/www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-giant-
ma...](https://www.outline.com/www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-giant-market-for-
tiny-cars-1537538585)

------
syntaxing
I like how the mother is holding the child while driving around the 1 min mark
of the video. That being said, how is the charging infrastructure in China (In
the Shan Dong area)? I know the more populated area is more apartment style
than house style.

Edit: Interesting to see the car in the rest of video. I like how it uses 10
Lead Acid Batteries for the power bank.Though is concerning since it looks
like an aluminum box with wheels with no safety. The extremely short bumper
zone is so concerning (and no air bags). But at least its affordable enough
for people to buy.

~~~
forkLding
Hard to answer that one as Shandong province is the most populous province in
China. Its also the third richest, the eastern parts especially so while other
parts of Shandong not so much.

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csours
1\. Oh my god those are so cute! It's like a kid's car, but for adults. I can
only imagine trying to fit in one, my head would probably have to be stuck out
the window.

2\. “It’s safe,” said Ms. Li: “It doesn’t go fast enough to be dangerous.” -
Oh no, not good at all! It doesn't matter how fast you are going, it matters
how fast the other guy is going! The crash safety of modern cars is not an
accident. It takes a lot of money to do the engineering, buy the proper
materials, and put it together correctly.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
>It doesn't matter how fast you are going, it matters how fast the other guy
is going! The crash safety of modern cars is not an accident. It takes a lot
of money to do the engineering, buy the proper materials, and put it together
correctly.

I think the safety complaint is irrelevant when the alternative is a bike or
moped.

It does also very much matter how fast you're going because a huge fraction of
crashes only involve one vehicle.

~~~
syntaxing
I think it concerning because people probably think its more safe than it
actually is. This is definitely no safer than a bike or moped but the outer
car housing gives a much stronger false sense of safety for the user.

~~~
romwell
>This is definitely no safer than a bike or moped

Any tri- or quadricycle is _most definitely_ safer than a bike or a moped. You
can't fall off it when it's not moving, for starters.

~~~
Doxin
On the other hand you can, for example, get trapped inside it while it is on
fire.

There's tradeoffs here and it's not at all obvious which of the two options is
safer.

------
singularity2001
PS: There are now 200,000,000 electro scooters in use in China.

~~~
kurthr
Many of those are actually trikes used for moving small loads around. I don't
know that the 200M number is right, but at least in Shanghai and Beijing the
2Cycle gas scooters were banned, and that's not the case in the interior
provinces.

~~~
singularity2001
I just read 200M today, before I had 100M in my notes:

[https://www.accessmagazine.org/fall-2010/electric-two-
wheele...](https://www.accessmagazine.org/fall-2010/electric-two-wheelers-
china-promise-progress-potential/)

------
wink
Interesting, but besides from shopping trips where I don't want to transport
10-20kg.. I don't see the point for myself. I'm going to work by bike most of
the year and if I use a car I'm usually going 100 - 1000km. (Not saying I
won't take the car out of sheer laziness sometimes, but I wouldn't buy one of
these) Might actually be ok for 2 person trips in the city, though.

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baybal2
On topic of LSEVs bans: some cities simply ban "cars smaller than x and y in
width and length" because poor people drive them.

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clairity
and in the US, our only option is the smart fortwo, which is starts at $25K.

granted, it's better engineered, but i doubt it's 16 times better.

~~~
jaclaz
In Europe smaller "cars" (they are not actually cars) do exist, they are
limited in speed/power (they can be electric or gasoline or diesel) to be
compliant to the Law and they can be driven (it depends I believe in which
states) either without license or with a "simplified" driving license that you
can get as early as 14 years (or 16 years for the more performing types).

BUT they tend to be very expensive (when compared to what they offer) and -
basically - are mainly "toys" for rich kids or in some cases, used by people
that for one reason or the other cannot have a "full" driving license.

Only as an example/reference:

[https://www.aixam.com/en/](https://www.aixam.com/en/)

~~~
tromp
An even smaller example:

[http://www.estrima.com/en/](http://www.estrima.com/en/)

Unfortunately, the price of EUR 12000-14000 is not so small...

~~~
jaclaz
Yes, that one is more similar to a Renault thingy, called Twizy:

[https://www.renault.it/veicoli/gamma-ze/twizy/versioni-e-
pre...](https://www.renault.it/veicoli/gamma-ze/twizy/versioni-e-prezzi.html)

that has also an interesting option, i.e. the battery that can be rented
instead of bought.

They are more like a cabbed quad or an upgraded golf cart than a mini car as
the Axiom or Ligier (or the Chinese ones).

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baybal2
Sorry, but China is likely heading the other way.

China is the only market in the world with taste for American car brands...

G-Wagen or Buick SUV or something even bigger is the logical apex of what
locals consider a "proper car"

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fh973
And they look like a BMW, Mini or Jeep!

