
After 6 years of programming, I'm still a developer. What am I doing wrong? - ozuvedi
I started my programming in 2008 and have worked on many big as well as small projects. I work on .NET platform mostly. I&#x27;ve worked in big companies and have done freelancing for 2 years leaving my job. This year I moved to a different country and started job as developer (I took whatever I got). I&#x27;m quite sure I&#x27;m not a bad developer. I have good feedbacks. I&#x27;ve completed projects and earned appreciation. Last week a new guy was hired in my company as Project Manager and he has only 1 year experience and that too not in programming. In networking and stuff and has done some PM stuff for couple of months. 
Now I think I&#x27;m not in the position that I should be. I can constantly see things that are going wrong in the company. For example, what the new PM does is constantly come to developer and ask a lot of things rather than documenting it. He hasn&#x27;t been even able to choose right tool to log issues in 2 months. Uses 2-3 different stuffs. Doesn&#x27;t communicate the progress to the team. Rather chooses specific developer and goes on with it. In other words, isn&#x27;t connecting to the team. 
If the company decided to hire inexperienced PM, why didn&#x27;t they promote me or even my fellow developer to do so? 
Is this happening because I&#x27;ve got brown skin? Or am I doing something wrong? I&#x27;m not so interested to do PM job but I&#x27;m concerned I&#x27;m not being a good developer, or something lacks in me.
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anvildoc
I agree with the other commenters. PM is not a promotion. PM is a very hard,
thankless job that is hard to get right. Trust me --- you don't want it. The
PM clearly needs help and it seems like you can fill some gaps he has. I do
not know the org structure in your company, but I would lobby for you to
become the "Lead" developer -- and you can work hand in hand with the PM to
make sure the project is organized correctly, that the requirements are being
gathered and met, that the tools the developers need are in place. The PM
should be able to take the brunt of the "external" networking for the team,
and you can take the brunt of the "internal" networking to the team. You can
help and learn from each other, as I am sure he has some skills that you do
not (they may be soft skills).

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ozuvedi
It clearly is a tough job. Communicating technical as well as business process
at the same time can be very challenging.

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tonyplee
What's wrong with being good developer, especially good developer? I have been
doing this for 23 years and still love it. Moving from
DOS/UNIX->Win32->8051->Embedded
OS->vxWorks->Networking->Storaging->Video/Media/Embedded Linux->Android ASOP.
Learning new things every months.

BTW, if you checkout the salary level at glassdoor.com, a good
engineer/developer salary level is higher than most of the "PM", Director. A
lot well run company knew this and respect this.

Personally, I was moved to Marketing/PM type of roles for a while, hated it.
Too Much politic, a lot depending who you know, party with, etc.

Good engineers/developers got respect from what you know and how well you
code, understanding of issues and formulate/architect a solution. Ok, I am a
geek.

~~~
ozuvedi
Thank you for the comment. Makes me feel good. I too want to continue being
developer, hopefully I'll become a good one like you. BUT somehow environment
within the company presents constraints.....

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RogerL
It would not ever occur to me to try to 'promote' a developer to PM; it's not
a promotion, it's not a normal career path, and most people wouldn't even want
to do it. If it appeals to you, let your manager know.

~~~
ozuvedi
I'm planing to regularly come up with suggestions, options and my thoughts in
meetings. May be that would be a starting point ?

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seren
It happens that if you are good at what you are doing you won't be promoted,
because it will be hard to find someone to replace you. So you have to clearly
signal that you want to move, because for your manager it might be more
comfortable to know that you are here, reliable and productive.

~~~
ozuvedi
wow, wasn't thinking from that angle. thanks a lot.

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a3n
What you're doing wrong is not being in the job that you want.

Find a position that you want in the company where you are now, or find a
position that you want somewhere else. It doesn't have to be a full-on 100% PM
job. After all, the guy you mention apparently only has a year experience
himself. Everyone starts somewhere and somehow. _Everyone_.

It won't be easy, but it will never happen if you don't try.

As for the specific issues you have with that other guy, those are merely
details and they will instantly be irrelevant once you move up or out. Forget
about that immediately (I literally mean right this second), and put all your
energy into finding your next position, internally or externally.

Get to work. :)

~~~
ozuvedi
Thank you so much for the reply. You do seem to understand in what situation I
am in. Your suggestion seems to be the ultimate solution but being new to the
country without much financial backup, I'll have to put this option aside for
the time being. However, I constantly think about leaving and doing something
on my own every day but without a solid idea and proper plan / backup, its
tough one.

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partisan
Sometimes you have to seek what you want. It won't always come to you. If you
know they are hiring for PM, go into your manager's office and ask to be
considered for the position. Outline the many reasons why you would be
qualified. Just bear in mind that knowing a bad PM when you see one does not
make you a good PM.

A while back, a really senior co-worker left the company I was working at. I
knew he worked on things that interested me so I went to the head of the
department and asked to take over his work. If I had not stepped up, his work
would have been distributed out over the team and I wouldn't have had the
opportunities I've had since.

~~~
ozuvedi
That is one of my weakness. I just can't tell people I'm great at what I do or
even I'm good. I always feel others are way better than me and always seem to
find some fault within me. I always listen more and talk less. When someone
has Ideas I respect them and I dnt try to come up with anything because I
think I might hurt them or they might feel bad.

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EnderMB
One idea I tend to agree with is the idea that "you are in the position you
deserve to be in". If you are in a junior position when you feel like a senior
developer, you deserve to be in that position. You might have the skills, but
since you've not done anything to put yourself in that position you are where
you are.

If you want to be a PM, ask to be considered for a PM role. If you don't get
it then apply for PM roles elsewhere. You are rarely given help in this world,
so take every opportunity you can possibly get.

~~~
ozuvedi
Thank you for your comment. PM isn't the role I'd want to be in but I just
happen to love projects organized, process in place so that I can focus more
in my programming.

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raquo
* Did you talk to your employer about your desire to work as a Project Manager?

* Did they provide you with reasons why they don't want you in that role? Since they set the rules, you need to know what they want.

* Project Management is more about social rather than technical skills. Are you a good communicator? Does your employer know that?

* I don't know anything about your skills, but you've just written 260 words in one wall-of-text paragraph. It wasn't that hard to read, but that's not proper style.

~~~
ozuvedi
I've made them clear I don't want to be just an employee who gets in at 9 am
and leaves at 5 pm. I want to lead, set up standards within the company on how
the projects should be done. I've made it very clear to them that I want to
know more about what's going on and not just sit in a corner writing code. But
yes, I didn't say " I want to be a project manager". Because I don't think
that would be appropriate as I was hired as a developer. And yes, project
management is about connecting with your team, making sure they know the
bigger picture of the project as well as company and importantly, make sure
you give respect to others and not try to be THE MANAGER.

Sorry for my big para. That is what I am concerned about. What do you think is
the good style? I fear I don't know these things. That is what I think I lack.
Please help me get to a better style.

~~~
sraquo
I've taken a Written Business Communications course as part of my studies a
while ago which used this book –
[http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/essentials-of-
business-c...](http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/essentials-of-business-
communication/9780176503574-item.html)

It explains the basics – styling, structuring letters / emails / memos,
choosing the medium, etc. I'm sure there must be lots of free resources
available online for such a popular topic, but I've never looked it up.

~~~
ozuvedi
Thank you. Cheers !!!

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bowlich
PM would be a demotion at the companies I've worked at -- or at least a
significant decrease in pay.

~~~
ozuvedi
Yeah, I can imagine that. Sometimes PM do not have enough freedom and they end
up being just an assistant of the directors

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JSeymourATL
Suggest reading up on Self-Development, ultimately you're responsible for
driving your career growth >
[http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/847538.FYI](http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/847538.FYI)

~~~
ozuvedi
Thank you for recommending the book. Looks like a must-read for me.

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jozi9
Beware. I became a manager after 5 years of development. Now, 7 years later
I'm back to developing software :) Much better.

~~~
ozuvedi
well, nothing can beat that for sure.

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joshdance
Becoming a manager is not getting promoted. It is a career change. Approach it
the same way.

~~~
ozuvedi
I wouldn't be interested to be a full time manager but I'd surely like to see
the team better managed, right tools used, development done in a better
process and follow standards.

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wwwhatcrack
Haha if you wanted to be a pm why did you learn how to code?

