
Apple SIM - skuzins
https://www.apple.com/ipad/apple-sim/
======
mvid
I'm surprised Apple has created a proper Fi competitor yet. It would fit so
well into their premium brand of "your iPhone works the moment you step off
the plane wherever your amazing life takes you".

They wouldn't have their UX tied to cell providers, who are some of the most
unpleasant entities to interact with. They would probably be able to lean
further into their personal security stance, by fully obfuscating the user
from the provider.

They have the brand leverage to do it, I'm hoping this is a stepping stone.

~~~
scrollaway
> _It would fit so well into their premium brand of "your iPhone works the
> moment you step off the plane wherever your amazing life takes you"._

If there's _anything_ that would make me buy an iPhone, this is it. I travel a
lot between the US and Europe; I'm using Fi at the moment even though I
shouldn't actually have access to it. It's mind boggling to me the crazy
things we can do with tech today, and not make it all work smoothly and
reliably when you step a few meters off the border of whichever country you're
in.

~~~
cosmie
I have T-Mobile's Simple Choice plan, and while I haven't flown too much
internationally, the few times I have, my service has worked seamlessly.

My plan includes 4G coverage in Mexico and Canada, and 2G coverage in 100+
other markets (with the option to upgrade for 3G and 4G rates in those
markets). Looking at [1] it appears the current plans may not offer this for
free anymore, but it's still available.

[1] [https://www.t-mobile.com/travel-abroad-with-simple-
global](https://www.t-mobile.com/travel-abroad-with-simple-global)

~~~
ivanstojic
I believe the above commenter talks about the ease/pricing of Fi as much as
the experience. I'm using Fi on my iPhone (and have for a while) - and it
works worldwide for $10 / 1Gb. It's actually downright magical compared to
other offers (even the Apple SIM powered ones).

~~~
cosmie
The ease with T Mobile is there too. I pay $50/month for my plan, and calls,
text, and data effectively works seamlessly in ~160 countries. If I want
_faster_ data in some of those countries, I can pay $10 extra.

Google Fi is $20/month for voice and text, plus a variable $10/month per GB up
to 6GB where it caps out at $80/month.

Note that I'm not arguing against you, just wanted to clarify that the t
mobile experience is just as seamless as Fi, in case I overcomplicated it.

T-Mobile even supports WiFi calling in the same way as Fi, if you want to
enable it (handy for me at work, where I'm in a building built like a bunker
that gets close to no reception on any network).

~~~
josteink
Is 6GB seriously the _best_ Google has to offer? I'm on a 7GB monthly plan and
I find that limiting...

I guess we have different standards here in Europe.

~~~
cosmie
As Larrysalibra said, 6GB is basically just the threshold for where you go
from paying per GB to it being unlimited. If you use 3GB, you'll be charged
$30 for saga. If you use 6GB, you'll be charged $60 for data, and if you use
9GB or 18GB or 30 GB you'll still only be charged $60 for data.

------
kylec
This isn't new, the Apple SIM has been around since 2014:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_SIM](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_SIM)

~~~
morganvachon
And it still doesn't work properly with every carrier. I bought a new,
unlocked iPad Mini 4 that came with the Apple SIM, and no carrier would
activate it. I finally got it working on Ting after getting one of Ting's SIM
cards and lots of back-and-forth between Ting and Apple Support.

~~~
jboles
I think it is only intended to work with Apple’s partner carriers. I wanted to
add my iPad to my AT&T data service and I could not use the built in SIM.
Instead AT&T sent one for free. The iPad has a separate SIM slot and I imagine
it will have to until the built in SIM is truly universal.

~~~
josteink
> The iPad has a separate SIM slot and I imagine it will have to until the
> built in SIM is truly universal.

Or you know... In the rest of the world, people actually ask for SIM cards,
physical cards, because they are portable, and 100% certifiably decouples your
device from your cellular provider.

Why on earth would I have something hidden inside... Which may or may not be
interoperable... Which I cannot take and use with other devices if I need to?
Which I cannot easily replace with a new one, from any carrier in the world?

~~~
jboles
Not disagreeing with you. It would suck if Apple ever removed the slot, but it
would be par for the course for them.

------
blhack
I've always wished that apple would offer this in the macbook pros. A laptop
that doesn't have to tether, but just carries its own internet connection with
it would be really nice.

~~~
swiley
I know many thinkpads have an empty bay with a minipci connector that you can
put modems in which do just that.

I don't know why things like that aren't popular, I guess it looks "ugly?"

~~~
megy
Because a tiny portion of people would use it. Who wants to pay an extra
monthly cost on their machine? The only people who would really do this are
ones where it is covered by work.

~~~
josteink
> Who wants to pay an extra monthly cost on their machine?

It's not an extra cost when you get a twin-SIM for your regular subscription.
You obviously have to pay extra to have the modem though.

Source: Owner of Thinkpad Carbon X1 with built in 4G-moden and twin-SIM from
my cellular provider.

------
radicaldreamer
This isn’t new and it’s fairly expensive compared to Google Fi or T-Mobile.
Might be worth it for customers in some countries but US users have much
better choices for roaming internationally.

~~~
hughes
Where did you find pricing information? Google Fi is already outrageously
expensive for data at $10/GB

~~~
habosa
Fi recently announced some changes for large data users:
[https://www.engadget.com/2018/01/17/google-project-fi-
bill-p...](https://www.engadget.com/2018/01/17/google-project-fi-bill-
protection-unlimited-data/)

Basically it caps off at $60 after 6GB, is free up to 15GB, and then
throttles.

That's pretty great pricing especially considering it works anywhere in the
world.

Disclaimer: I am a Google employee, Fi customer outside of work, don't work on
Fi.

~~~
hughes
Yeah that definitely kept me around for a few extra months. Even with the
limit though, a total bill of $80 stung pretty bad when $40 unlimited options
were available from other carriers that include international (north american)
coverage.

I guess when I signed up for Fi I imagined myself travelling more outside of
North America.

------
mrnobody_67
too bad this doesn't work in iPhones.

I have 15+ international SIM cards. Slightly inconvenient to have to buy one
for each country I visit to avoid surprise roaming charges.

~~~
dorian-graph
What kind of case or holder do you use for your SIM cards? While I'm not at
15+, I have a couple.

~~~
jfaat
I roll them up in a sticky note and store it in my passport holder.

------
cup-of-tea
For some reason I instantly noticed the map is showing a park in Lyon. Does
that have any significance?

(Of course, they should have used openstreetmap
[https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/45.7790/4.8529](https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/45.7790/4.8529))

~~~
sebastianavina
yeah, its steve jobs sending clues from his grave. Go there and dig under the
first thing that looks like an apple for the next hint for the steve-treasure

------
tracker1
Unfortunately, when I go on road trips (mostly western US), there are a _LOT_
of areas that only Verizon seems to have coverage. I've used most of the other
carriers at one time or another, but I've been with Verizon for about 2 years
now as I just got tired of not having connectivity when traveling inside the
country.

------
forcer
why its working only on iPad and not on iPhone?

~~~
asclepi
iPhones are generally sold through carriers with the phone locked to that
specific carrier. The main point of the Apple SIM - the ability to switch
between short-term mobile internet contracts across multiple carriers - would
be pretty moot in this scenario.

Note that the Apple SIM isn't new, nor tied to the release of the new iPad
model today. It's been around since at least 2014. I remember going to an
Apple Store back then to pick one up. The associate at first didn't know what
I was talking about but eventually found them somewhere stashed in the back-
office.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Could a virtual SIM not replace physical SIMs, reducing the friction of
switching providers?

It seems we’re just waiting on carriers to catch up to the idea at the moment.

[https://www.kaspersky.com/blog/virtual-
sim/11572/](https://www.kaspersky.com/blog/virtual-sim/11572/)

~~~
ucaetano
Google already does it with Project Fi + Pixel.

[https://www.androidcentral.com/using-project-fi-
pixel-2s-esi...](https://www.androidcentral.com/using-project-fi-
pixel-2s-esim-amazing)

~~~
dudus
I came here to say this. I bought a Pixel 2 XL for my wife last year and there
was an option to use SIM-less with Project Fi. I was confused at first and
went with it, and it worked. Then I just stored the old SIM. To be honest I
don't quite remember how was the process but I remember it was pretty easy to
setup.

------
josteink
How is this better than simply having... A SIM-card in your phone or tablet?

A SIM-card is something you can swap and replace in less than 30 seconds, and
100% decouples your device from your cellular provider. The way things should
be. It's hardware so it's portable. It's standardized so it's interoperable
and works with all equipment, from all vendors.

Why does Apple need to re-invent this?

Why would I want to replace something 1. which works, 2. is industry standard
and 3. has proven itself for more than two decades... With something which is
1. not industry-standard but Apple-only and 2. not proven?

What on earth would compel anyone to make such a stupid trade-off? How stupid
would you have to be to think this is a good thing?

~~~
hjnilsson
How is having a sim card better than simply having... free access to any
carrier?

A SIM-card is something you need to wait to arrive in snail mail. When going
abroad you need to order one ahead of time to get a good price. Switching
requires weeks of waiting for new cards to arrive, or going to a store. If you
lose your device you need to wait for a replacement.

Why would anyone want to use such an antediluvian method?

Why would I want to use something which 1. needs me to remember/write down
weird codes 2. doesn't work internationally without exorbitant fees and
workarounds 3. is as old as VGA connectors.

What on earth would compel anyone to make such a stupid trade-off? How stupid
would you have to be to think this is a good thing?

PS. Just making a point here, it's not all bad like you're making it out to
be, and the dismissive tone muddles the problem. It surprises me that the
resistance to new technical solutions to problems is so endorsed here on
Hacker News of all places.

~~~
realusername
> A SIM-card is something you need to wait to arrive in snail mail. When going
> abroad you need to order one ahead of time to get a good price. Switching
> requires weeks of waiting for new cards to arrive, or going to a store. If
> you lose your device you need to wait for a replacement.

What do you mean? You just pay a small amount of money at any store/cigarette
shop and you get a SIM card in 10 seconds.

~~~
mrweasel
Depending on where you are in the world, you need to be able to go online to
activate the SIM cards you buy at the supermarket/corner-store.

Here in Denmark you can't buy an anonymous SIM card anymore, at least I
haven't found any in years. They all require you to register on their website
with name, address, CPR (Danish SSN).

~~~
realusername
I doubt Apple SIM will solve that issue, they will likely comply with the
local legislation and ask you to register as well.

~~~
jamaicahest
Obviously Apple would have to comply with local legislations, just like any
other company has to comply with local legislations. So no, Apple SIM would
not provide anonymous mobile access.

------
a_t48
I wonder how the rates compare to Google Fi? (Which is also compatible with
iPad, even if it isn't advertized).

~~~
odonnellryan
In case anyone is curious, there's a list of compatible devices on this page:
[https://support.google.com/fi/answer/6330195?hl=en](https://support.google.com/fi/answer/6330195?hl=en)

I didn't know this was a thing. Is it new?

~~~
marzell
FYI on Fi there are many devices that seem to work well, even if they aren't
on the official list of supported devices.

Fi also supports additional devices using a data-only SIM, which doesn't cost
any extra except for the per-GB data rates. No $15 surcharge just for the
ability to use other devices, etc. Same thing with tethering.

edit: also, this isn't exactly new, Google Fi was introduced in October 2016.
I've been using it since then with no problems. In fact, I once received a
reimbursement for a short outage that I hadn't even realized happened.

~~~
votepaunchy
There's no extra charge for a data-only SIM but you are required to have a
primary device which costs $20 (plus $10/GB). Would be great to offer this to
customers on other carriers.

~~~
odonnellryan
When I realized this I ordered one right away.

------
Thriptic
Is it possible to purchase a dongle for ipad which will let you pop in a sim
and support this function?

~~~
codq
A 'cellular dongle' would be a dream come true.

~~~
tomcooks
Not really sure, but isn't it what 4g usp modems are for?

------
oneplane
Nice to see SoftBank on that page, probably means SoC makers can simply get
the IP from them when getting other parts like an ARM core etc. Makes it a
whole lot easier to just get a virtual SIM in your device.

~~~
zokier
Probably means

> On October 1, 2006, Vodafone Japan changed its corporate name, mobile phone
> brand name, and its mobile phone domain name to SoftBank Mobile, SoftBank,
> and [mb.softbank.jp], respectively

and

> SoftBank Mobile was the only official carrier of the iPhone in Japan until
> the release of iPhone 4S in 2011 when it became available on au by KDDI as
> well

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SoftBank_Group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SoftBank_Group)

Oh, and SoftBank also happens to own Sprint, although that probably is
unrelated here.

~~~
oneplane
Ah, so SoftBank Group is not just the ARM guys. Makes a different kind of
sense now.

------
trisimix
Nice to see no version on that list but that stuffs been out forever

------
Mononokay
The fact that there are two T-Mobile logos on that page side-by-side bugs me.
Irrationally so.

~~~
lainga
I think one is just T for Deutsche Telekom, whose corporate relationship to
T-Mobile depends on the month and phase of moon.

~~~
Mononokay
Huh. Thanks for explaining; I genuinely had no idea Deutsche Telekom existed.

~~~
walshemj
Its the old West German PTT as was also know a Dustch Buders Pest to other
telecoms :-)

------
_RPM
Whatever you do, do not purchase any device from AT&T. You will be locked in
to GSM only networks.

~~~
jjtheblunt
Huh? LTE on AT&T has been a thing for a very long time, and it's not GSM.

~~~
_RPM
I bought an iPhone 7 from AT&T, and the device is not compatible across the
major carriers.

~~~
_acme
You're not using the term 'GSM' correctly. You mean to say that your device is
locked to AT&T, not that it is 'GSM'-only.

~~~
_RPM
Actually, you’re wrong. Att sells an iPhone that is not compatible with CDMA
networks. Trust me bud, I’ve done all the research. Apple sells their devices
with the ability to use any of the 4 carriers.

