
Deno 1.4 - lucacasonato
https://deno.land/posts/v1.4
======
svnpenn
Note that Deno is missing locale support. So for example this:

    
    
        (1000).toLocaleString();
    

will get you "1,000" with Node, but "1000" with Deno:

[https://github.com/denoland/deno/issues/1968](https://github.com/denoland/deno/issues/1968)

~~~
piscisaureus
Ecma-402 support (the 'Intl' object, locale dependent number and date
formatting, etc.) requires linking with the ICU library.

We expect to support that in a future release.

~~~
benatkin
In the meantime there's stuff like this:

[https://deno.land/x/date_fns@v2.15.0/locale](https://deno.land/x/date_fns@v2.15.0/locale)

------
spark3k
What’s the killer feature that will lead to node developers switching over in
droves?

~~~
kybernetikos
It's just so different, lots of people could claim different killer features.
A strong contender for one section of the community might be the first class
typescript support. Other people might like the way you can run so much from a
single executable.

Anyway, node is a pretty mature platform now, _if_ it dies, it'll die like
java-the-language is dying. Very very slowly, and with parts of its platform
holding out much longer than other parts. Or alternatively it'll evolve and
slowly adopt things from other ecosystems.

I don't think we're at the stage where we can say that a bet on deno is
definitely right, but it has a lot of interesting ideas and lots of people
will be picking it up where they can.

If you're interested in the difference between node and deno, check out the
talk '10 things I regret about Node'
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=M3BM9TB-8yA&...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=M3BM9TB-8yA&feature=emb_logo)

~~~
silentprog
Since when is java slowly dieing?

~~~
snazz
Java _mindshare_ has been dying for a long time. That said, it's still taught
in schools and all sorts of companies still use it (including "cool" ones like
Google and Apple).

~~~
The_Colonel
Java mindshare might be slowly shrinking but it is very, very far from dying.

~~~
rektide
I'd ask, what is sustaining java? Where are the replacement techies picking up
the torch, where are youngsters seeing java?

I have some answers. It's not a lost cause. Death is not likely, & I do
appreciate a lot of java (cdi rocks, microprofile is doing great, performance
is good, it has excellent big data tools & many serious pieces of infra are
built with it). But how java can retain liveliness, over time, & how the
experience & knowledge base continues, is a real challenge. Being on Android
helps a lot but also it's a radically different immensely unlike the server
side world, with its own elaborate platform specific architectures &
libraries. There's not a lot of places java has a hold on UI/ux centered
systems, outside Android, so it risks becoming too invisible.

~~~
pjmlp
When SAP rewrites their stack to something else other than Java, Amazon or
Alibaba stop contributing to Java, then I start worrying.

Microsoft decided that Java death is so imminent that they are now an OpenJDK
contributor, collaborate with Red-Hat on VSCode Java support, have bought
jClarity and Java has first class support on Azure.

~~~
doteka
I guess a Roman, asked circa 300 AD how he feels about the decline of the
empire, would have replied similarly.

Java’s mindshare just isn’t where the exciting things in this field are
happening. It’s more the domain of overengineered “big data” platforms and
clunky enterprise software. Yes, SAP employs a ton of java developers I’m
sure, but many devs would rather switch careers than work on anything
resembling a crufty ERP.

Thus, the ecosystem stagnates, due to the dead see effect - everyone who could
push it forward into new areas has no interest being anywhere near it. And
stagnation is a long, drawn out death all the same. It still has a ton of
momentum, and millions of outsourcing devs who only know Java, so it will be
with us for a while - but make no mistake, the decline started quite a while
ago.

~~~
pjmlp
On my domains only Java or .NET stand a chance to win RFPs, and if anything
.NET is the one having troubles, because many are unsure what Microsoft
actually wants to do with it, and slowly pissed with the multiple rewrites
where there is always something left behind.

I only see RFPs for Java based technology going up.

~~~
yrio
Do you think .NET is currently being badly managed compared to Java? And do
you think it will negatively affect .NET's long term future?

~~~
pjmlp
Kind of, Microsoft seems to trying to fix UWP, while trying to turn .NET into
a cross platform runtime that has an eco-system that has been Windows only for
the last 20 years.

So while they are doing lots of nice performance improvements, there are
plenty of business not so happy that their 20 year investments don't run on
.NET Core, and if a rewrite is needed (e.g. WCF vs gRPC) then why not just
jump into something else.

Just see the lengthy roadmap, and the considerations that not everyone was
happy with "AOT" (packing everything into an exe that unzips on execution).

[https://github.com/dotnet/designs/blob/main/accepted/2020/fo...](https://github.com/dotnet/designs/blob/main/accepted/2020/form-
factors.md)

Also check the repositories from Project Reunion, it is pretty much WIP right
now.

------
dang
A large thread about 1.0 from a few months ago:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23172483](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23172483)

------
colesantiago
Is anyone using Deno at scale or in production yet?

~~~
I_am_tiberius
I don't think Deno supports SSL yet.

~~~
gorbypark
Deno not supporting TLS isn't a show stopper, in my opinion. Not many
production environments expose Deno (or Node) instances directly, but rather
have a reverse proxy sitting in front providing SSL and routing.

~~~
bigyikes
It’s totally a breeze to get https set up with Caddy.

------
akritrime
I wish the docs for the rust crates got some love. It seems super interesting
but its hard to figure out where to start.

~~~
josalhor
Out of curiosity, how would you improve them?

~~~
akritrime
I just started digging into it a few hours back, so I can't give you a
concrete answer. A hello world example for the deno_core to give an idea on
how the Ops and ResourceIds should be used. The examples given are not really
clear at a glance what they are doing and I had to read through a few of the
test cases before I got some idea how JsRuntime should work.

------
29athrowaway
I gave Deno a try last night.

There seemed to be some few alternatives to work with databases but I would
like to see some more maturity before using this on production.

------
29athrowaway
The installation steps do not include cargo, which is another way to get cargo
installed if you happen to have rust installed.

~~~
caspervonb
Rustup is the way to install rust and cargo.

~~~
29athrowaway
What I mean is that you can run:

    
    
        cargo install deno
    

...to install deno. This is not mentioned in the article.

~~~
caspervonb
Wouldn't recommend it, takes quite a while to build from source.

~~~
29athrowaway
Like 2 min.

------
skyfaller
Can someone explain like I'm five what Deno is and what it's for? Is it for
the desktop or web applications? What practical things can you / should you do
with it? I just can't get my head around what it does.

~~~
TheDong
deno is 'node' shifted by two letters. What do you use nodejs for? That's what
you use deno for. It exists in the same space.

So in short, deno is a javascript interpreter suitable for local scripting,
server/services, etc. Just like node.

You can probably use it for desktop applications, but it more closely targets
server code, again like node.

So how does deno differ from node? It has a different module system and stdlib
(better, more modern). It has first-class typescript support. It has much
better security controls so that it's possible to use it to interpret
untrusted code (this is not security advice).

The 'untrusted code' bit means deno's also gunning a little for the niche lua
and other embedded scripting languages occupy, but I don't think it has much
of a foothold there yet.

~~~
crocodiletears
Any experience embedding deno in a c++ application? I absolutely lovehow
seamlessly lua integrates into my code, but I just find the language itself
absolutely unpleasant to work with.

~~~
vinkelhake
Deno uses V8. If you want to embed a JS runtime in C++ then just use V8
directly.

Deno is mostly written in rust.

~~~
crocodiletears
Ah, I hadn't realized that. For some reason I fell under the impression that
it was its own JS engine.

