
Removing my children from the Internet - xiaoma
http://www.ryan-mclaughlin.com/fatherhood/removing-children-internet/
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tzaman
When we got our first child, my wife also went on a _sharing spree_ , trying
to put everything on Facebook. When I noticed that we had a long talk where I
explained to her that even a newborn deserves his own privacy, just as us
adults do and she admitted she didn't think of that and from there on, we just
post really significant stuff that won't embarrass our kids when they grow up.

~~~
scotty79
How can you, adult, be embarrassed by something you did as a toddler or even 5
year old?

~~~
tzaman
Easily - imagine your parents posting your fully nude pictures on FB? Would
you be 100% ok with that, even 20-or-so years later?

~~~
scotty79
Why the hell should that be embarrassing? My body looks totally different now.

~~~
LekkoscPiwa
I can look them up. Drunk Polish guy laughing at you ;-) Enjoying it yet?

~~~
scotty79
Sober Polish adult still doesn't care.

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ck2
Any photo you have on facebook, no matter how private you think it is,
eventually they will tweak the rules again to where it is publicly exposed by
default until you opt out.

You may never learn about the change and never know to opt-out until it is too
late. The moving target is by design, not accident.

If you use facebook for anything other than a throwaway account, you are
exposed.

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lnanek2
Doesn't seem to be of any value to me. Kid would be better off if she worked
an extra hour a day instead of wasting time deleting old shares that don't
matter. I grew up with family picture books of me as a kid in compromising
situations, no one really cares if you ran around naked as a toddler with a
bag on your head. Hell, some people even find the albums funny, and
girlfriends feel closer to you after seeing embarrassing stuff like that.

~~~
darklajid
And when you applied for your first job your mum came along and shared these
pictures with your future boss?

Are you really comparing the private "Hey, you're going to marry. Want to see
what little lnanek looked like when he was 4?" album with data on the net?

~~~
eru
If you are in the US, any boss would be avoiding any such knowledge like the
plague. They don't want to be sued.

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pfortuny
Yes, you do not own your children (they are "yours" in their origin and your
responsibility towards them). Children have an expectancy of privacy and
anonymity much more sensitive than those of grown-ups. Parents have no right
to pretend they know their children's desires in this context.

Not that I am against ANY sharing but sense and sensibility are both required.

(Edit grammery...)

~~~
vacri
Part of a paren't role is to train their kids for the life ahead. Hand-
wringing about "what my child wants" runs somewhat counter to setting
expectations and desires. Plenty of kids only want to eat candy and ice-cream,
but we don't frown at parents for saying 'no' to those desires.

Share things sensibly. Maybe don't share things like naked bath photos. But
your kids are part of your life, and it's normal to share with others the
things you have done with the people close to you.

~~~
icebraining
Facebook employees shouldn't count as "people close to you", though.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Back in the old days one had to bring camera films to a store to get the
photographs. Facebook employees are similar to store clerks here - both have
too much volume of photos going through their business to care about any one
in particular.

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retube
Here here. It's a gross abuse of privacy posting pictures of your children
online. Unfortunately many parents seem not to stop to think of the possible
ramifications a few years down the line.

~~~
scotty79
Main ramification of oversharing is that their kid will be just like everybody
else.

For example I have total privacy. I have no photos from my early childhood.
None. How do you think I feel when I know that all other people have some or
lots? I feel like I haven't existed back then at all. Like I popped into
existence at age 6 or something. Or that I was too ugly, or too plain to
photograph.

How will a kid feel that has no published photos of her/him online? He might
think that he was ugly or unremarkable and parents were just ashamed of
her/him or that parents hoped he'll die so why introduce kid to the public or
that they just hated her/him?

~~~
darklajid
Erm.. What's the connection between 'no photos online' and 'no photos'? I
guess no one is arguing that parents shouldn't take pictures/videos of their
kids.

Keep them, just like parents for our generation did (I assume 79 is your year
of birth) in a private place. If the kids want to have those later: Sure,
these pictures are theirs to begin with.

Take pictures, if you want. Store them locally or .. print them out.

Your personal lack of pictures is a different thing and not connected to the
point here - although I guess it helps understanding your 'pro sharing'
comments.

~~~
scotty79
> What's the connection between 'no photos online' and 'no photos'?

If I have no photos, then none can be posted online - event better guarantee
that they won't ever be posted online without my consent.

But you are not asking, rather saying that those are not the same thing. Yes.
They are not. I used it as just an analogy. 10 years from now might be as
weird to be kid with no early childhood photos online as today it is to be the
kid with no photos at all.

~~~
darklajid
I'm not trying to offend/attack here, but I still miss the point.

IF in ten years everyone has pictures online and due to some weird shift of
culture and perception that is normal, everyone else is weird: Let your kids
post their pictures. When they're old enough to decide that for themselves.

That's why I argued that you certainly can have pictures of your kids and
arguably should. For yourself and your mature/adult kids.

~~~
scotty79
> Let your kids post their pictures. When they're old enough to decide that
> for themselves.

Posting all your own childhood photos might also be perceived as weird in the
future (isn't it now?).

Personally I believe our children and grandchildren will live in much more
transparent times. I think they should feel good with transparency and demand
transparency. Hiding them from the world goes in exactly opposite direction.

~~~
darklajid
I guess we have to disagree in the end.

Transparency is important - in public. The government, work, politics in
general should be transparent. But using transparency as a reason to kill any
notion of privacy (because that's what "not posting pictures of my kid" is
about) is a strange point to make.

There's no reason at all for someone on the internet to ask about
'transparency' regarding the daily life of my family, my children. That'd be
an utterly ridiculous demand to make. My sex life isn't 'transparent' in that
way either.

~~~
scotty79
> I guess we have to disagree in the end.

I'm always up for that.

I'm not saying that private lives should be transparent. Only that they will
be. Therefore I believe that kids comfortable with over-sharing will have
easier lives, psychologically. I think we are one of the last generations that
believe privacy to be natural state. I think our grandchildren will be
absolutely devastated when they find out that because of some technical glitch
there's no recording of the event they just experienced semi-privately.

------
bowlofpetunias
Posting pictures of your kids online is one thing. Giving those pictures to a
service like Facebook is of an entire order altogether.

One of them is about privacy, and there is a grey area. The other is
_exploiting_ children. Basically you're giving Facebook pictures of your kids
as payment in return for a "free" service. People should be aware that when
they do that it's not "sharing", it's _selling_.

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mcv
I'm a massive hypocrite. I don't use photos of my face as avatar on FB and G+,
but I do share photos of my son. I'm a terrible person.

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jrockway
We need a more ephemeral social sharing system. Why not just delete things
after a year?

~~~
eksith
The internet is not _delete-friendly_ at present. There are scrapers for every
feed, every network and every keyboard has a print-screen button.

Just as "the only winning move is to not play", the only way to ensure your
information isn't on the internet (precluding hacks) is to not put it there in
the first place.

~~~
rytis
"not put it there in the first place"

Unfortunately that's not always possible. For example you're in a pub with
your friends, and someone takes a group picture and posts it online. Even if
you don't have FB account, you're there, and there's absolutely nothing you
can do about it. Very annoying.

~~~
eksith
This has happened to me. It's definitely a risk, of course, and there's little
you can do short of losing your friends and any semblance of a social life
these days.

You could have a chat with them and see if they're willing to respect your
privacy. Nothing much that can be done about strangers who do that though.

I've seen a few places that actively ban Google Glass (I think that was
mentioned here as well), but there are no bans on camera phones in any place
as far as I know. If a thing exists, it will be used after all. Original
intent be damned.

------
conformal
not looking forward to having this discussion with my wife come baby time. i
don't like to share anything online and she loves to have pictures up all the
time.

it sucks that so many net-based businesses make privacy so hard.

