
Microsoft’s HoloLens 2: a $3,500 mixed-reality headset for the factory - T-A
https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/24/18235460/microsoft-hololens-2-price-specs-mixed-reality-ar-vr-business-work-features-mwc-2019
======
Klathmon
So does anyone think this is at the point where I can pick one up and do away
with multiple monitors? (Hypothetically, I see they aren't selling to
consumers yet)

I play a game called Elite Dangerous with my Oculus rift, and the UX of being
able to have holographic windows around my person that I can look at to
activate and control is so insanely powerful and so freeing, and I'm literally
willing to drop multiple thousands of dollars on something right now that can
give that experience with normal desktop software right now.

Sadly the Rift lacks any way to see the real world when it's on (which makes
using a keyboard and mouse more difficult), and the resolution still has a
ways to go before I can comfortably use it like this, not to mention the
software still needs work for this use case.

But I can't wait until the day when I can get rid of the monitors on my desk
and replace them with a headset. Being able to place normal 2d windows around
my person, be able to maybe use some limited gestures to control them, and
then the same keyboard and potentially mouse that in used to.

~~~
lostmsu
IMHO, what they need is to work on "ClearType for 3D" and/or "DirectWrite for
3D".

In the demo they use giant fonts, because text rendering sucks if you simply
render text to a texture, then put that texture on a rotated plane in 3D. If
that last stage was bypassed, e.g. when rendering text, the renderer would
somehow know the rotation and distance, and draw the vector font directly into
the screen pixels, they could get it crisp enough for most apps.

~~~
larsberg
This challenge is one of the reasons we're so excited about pcwalton's work on
Pathfinder
([https://github.com/pcwalton/pathfinder](https://github.com/pcwalton/pathfinder)
)

~~~
mrec
I'm ashamed to realize that despite being well aware of Pathfinder, and of
Mozilla's somewhat surprising pivot toward "mixed reality", this connection
had never occurred to me.

------
kjaer
For finger tracking, version 1 used random forests [1], because of the
performance/hardware budget trade-off: they're harder to train than a
traditional deep learning algorithm, but are much more efficient to compute on
the device (branching being basically free on a CPU).

Version 2 uses a deep learning accelerator [2], which makes it possible to do
the heavier computation of DNNs (which involve floating-point operations,
which would be much more expensive on the CPU).

From an engineering perspective, I just love seeing how it touches all
abstraction layers of the stack, and the types of solutions that come out of
thinking about the silicon and the high-level ML models at the same time.

[1] [https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-
content/uploads/...](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-
content/uploads/2017/05/Towards-realistic-hands-gesture-interface.pdf)

[2] [https://homes.cs.washington.edu/~kklebeck/lebeck-
tech18.pdf](https://homes.cs.washington.edu/~kklebeck/lebeck-tech18.pdf)

~~~
munib_ca
When you mention version 1 and 2, are you referring to the original hololens
and the new one?

~~~
kjaer
Yes. I'm referring to the original HoloLens and HoloLens 2, so to the hardware
versions.

------
yodon
2x field of view (or possibly area of view, description could be read either
way). Eye tracking. MEMS display. High grade low latency hand tracking.
Improved set of default gesture recognizers. Spatial Anchors service for cross
platform localizing (see same AR in same location on HoloLens, ARKit, AR
Core). Some sort of geometry streaming service. Support for hardware
customization (hardhats, etc). Also showed a separate stand-alone IoT Kinect +
CPU/GPU hardware device.

------
lwansbrough
I was disappointed to see Microsoft is still working with the concept of apps.
I think we need to rethink how we start experiences in mixed reality. Pointing
and tapping an app makes sense for a touch/mouse device, but not for a device
that's supposed to continuously immerse the user. Here's my alternative
concept:

We need a search engine for holographic layer services. It would be like
Google, but for MR experiences. Holographic services would use a protocol that
defines a geofence to be discovered by the layer search engine's crawler over
the internet (this could just be a meta tag on a classic website). The
HoloLens or whatever MR device would continuously ping the search engine with
its location, and the results would be ordered based on their relevance (size
of geofence and proximity are good indicators). The MR device would then show
the most relevant available layer in the corner of the FOV. Selecting the
layer would allow enabling it either once or always, and the device would then
deliver the holographic layer over the internet. The holographic layer would
behave like a web service worker (in fact, it could be a web service worker)
and would augment a shared experience which contains other active holographic
layers. For example, your Google Maps holographic layer could be providing you
with a path to walk to the nearest Starbucks, and once you're outside
Starbucks, the Starbucks layer is also activated, which allows you to place an
order.

This concept of activated layers, I think, is a great way to avoid a future
where we're being bombarded with augmented signage and unwanted experiences.
In fact, you could go further and enable blocking notifications about
specific/certain types of available services. (ie. don't notify me about bars
or fast food restaurants.)

~~~
janoc
That would make zero sense for Hololens - Hololens is an enterprise device
that will in practice run one or two applications (e.g. the company training
or maintenance tool). Also most industrial networks are behind heavy
firewalls, so anything that actually depends on internet access is a problem.

Hololens also doesn't really work outdoors (display contrast and tracking are
the largest limitations), so there is no point of designing a system for
supporting that when the hardware is not usable in such scenario.

~~~
lwansbrough
It would make zero sense for HoloLens _today_. The HoloLens doesn't even have
a GPS chip. But Microsoft is building the future of MR in general. It's a
space they want to own or at least lead, and their investment in Azure
services for HoloLens today are proof of that. Obviously what I've described
does not really favour industrial use (though I dispute the idea that this
would not be achievable in industrial/enterprise environments.)

Indeed, HoloLens isn't great outdoors, however the current technology is
capable of it (despite the HL design.) The visor can be darkened to function
more like sunglasses, which solves the contrast problem.

I'm just looking 5-10 years out, in terms of what's going to be needed.

~~~
wvenable
It doesn't make sense to develop for 5-10 years out; you need to build for
today and sell for today. If that means running apps, then you run apps. When
the need arises, it will be built.

Evolving technology from an existing place is generally more successful than
trying to invent the end goal at the start.

------
dchichkov
Nice. AR for the industry is an interesting field. I've worked a bit on real-
time recognition and registration of CAD to point cloud, for another
industrial grade AR headset, developed by another company. But unfortunately
an exec from Qualcomm came in, brought in his buddies and flown the thing into
the ground. Hopefully Microsoft will pick up the flag of AR for industrial
use.

~~~
Barrin92
>Nice. AR for the industry is an interesting field

Yep I'm also happy about this and like the direction Microsoft seems to be
going. Industrial applications have always seemed much more interesting and
potentially widely beneficial than just targeting consumers and entertainment.

------
roywiggins
I played with a HoloLens 1 briefly, which was both a revelation- AR feels like
it could be useful in a way VR doesn't- and very frustrating. The worst part
was the gesture recognition, which was the absolute bare minimum. The Air Tap
was horrible.

Twice the FoV and with real hand tracking? That suddenly makes this thing
viable in one step.

~~~
Groxx
I generally feel like anything that requires your hands to be in the field of
view (at anything near its current size) is an immediate non-starter, which is
part of what ruined Air Tap for me. Plus it was just horribly imprecise.

We do stuff with our hands _largely_ away from the center of our vision. You
might make a brief glance to calibrate yourself, but e.g. grabbing a thing
doesn't require constant focus on the thing through the entire act.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
This may be the least insurmountable challenge though: A pair of smart gloves
will mostly solve this problem.

~~~
Groxx
yep, that'd be the most comprehensive way certainly. downward-facing cameras
could probably get most of it tho.

------
lwansbrough
The piano demo was by far the most exciting for me as someone who developed
for the first HoloLens. Having used the first one extensively, the improved
gestures support is IMO a more significant improvement than the FOV upgrade
for long term use cases.

I’m interested to see how Firefox handles web browsing on HoloLens. I’ve
always envisioned URLs in that context as a way of loading a new holographic
experience into a shared space, as opposed to each URL providing its own
separate experience (though this would be good as an option.)

------
daenz
What's cool about the use-case they describe is that it's the perfect bridge
between what humans are good at: improvised problem solving and movement, and
what computers are good at: crunching and surfacing data. Is this the sweet
spot?

~~~
bob_theslob646
>Is this the sweet spot?

Yes it is!

What is actually hilarious about this tech is that as the hardware gets
better, the information it feeds you will ultimately be the most valuable
piece. Crazy to think about when verifying validity a firehouse amount of
data.

------
loosetypes
So frustrating when videos I think of as marketing on YouTube are preceded by
other ads. I get that this content is from theverge, not Microsoft, but the
same could be said for YT shoving ads at you when you're already just trying
to watch a movie trailer.

I'm sure a lot of folks rarely watch many entire segments of ads unless it's
on their terms. Does further ad-walling that content not just reduce the
overall number of eyeballs? It's like the only ad metrics seen as meaningful
are the hostile ones..

~~~
jobigoud
My other pet peeve is movie trailers channels that start their videos with a
2-second mini trailer of the trailer.

------
mrlaserOO
That’s pretty exciting, especially the doubled field of view

------
foobarbecue
Wake me up when you can use these in outdoor and dark lighting conditions. At
that point they will be useful for several of my scientific needs.

------
Animats
It's not a hologram, people. It's a very clever projector, but it's not a
hologram at all.

The example given, showing someone where to put a bolt, is about making a
human do a robot's job. The computer decides what has to be done, and tells
the human exactly what to do. Like the picking system in Amazon warehouses.
We're getting ever closer to Marshall Brain's "Manna".

 _Machines should think. People should work._

------
JVIDEL
So same as gglass now, how is that one doing in the enterprise market btw?

------
___karim
It’s a fascinating space. I’m Waiting for a startup, the ‘Apple’ of mixed
reality, to take a fresh approach and create something for the rest of us.

------
mtgx
For the war _

------
telltruth
This is quite disappointing. Lot of good people I've known who joined this
team at early stage are all gone and it shows. Kipman simply didn't seem to
get this. Magic Leap should have at least taught them that it is very bad idea
to have so much weight on headset. The AR is pretty much dead at this point
and all these push towards creating demos for factories is pure media stunt.
They even managed to lure US army and I'd like to know the story of how they
did this but from my own experience trying to use Hololens in such situations
would be a tax, not benefit. The battery life is miserable, its too heavy for
wearing on head and induces headaches for most people. Also, using it in
custom situation requires huge amount of software development costs which are
rarely justified given inability to actually use the device.

Kipman has become an expert in working on projects that has initial oh-ah
factor and media appeal but he doesn't think beyond that at all. Kinect's main
use case was never gaming. It's too inaccurate for pleasant use after initial
wonder fads off. Hololens's main appeal is never creating this virtual world
but rather becoming a sensor that can be leveraged in all kind of
applications. But that would be the least sexiest thing for Kipman to do and
ofcourse that may not generate as many media articles.

------
serioussecurity
Also selling it to the military to "increase lethality".

[https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/22/18236116/microsoft-
holole...](https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/22/18236116/microsoft-hololens-
army-contract-workers-letter)

~~~
writepub
The military also buys iPhones, and Androids. What phone do you use? That very
phone was probably used to order a drone strike!

Did you use GPS technology this past week? That was the tech guiding the drone
to it's target. And this thing called the internet was invented to network the
military

~~~
roywiggins
GPS is a military technology opened to civilians... going the other way feels
different, for whatever reason.

~~~
nradov
No, GPS was actually designed from the start as a dual military and civilian
system. The only part that wasn't originally available to civilians was the
high precision signal.

~~~
sdinsn
> GPS was actually designed from the start as a dual military and civilian
> system

No, what prompted GPS to be opened to civilian uses was KAL007 being shot down
by the Soviet Union. [1] 269 killed, including a US Rep.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007)

~~~
nradov
No, as usual Wikipedia isn't quite accurate. Here's an actual interview with
the "father of GPS".

"BRAD PARKINSON: Absolutely. And there are a lot of misconceptions about that.
You hear people saying, well it was a military system and eventually made a
civil system. That was not true.

When I testified before Congress back about 1975, I said this is a combination
military civil system."

[https://www.sciencefriday.com/segments/how-gps-found-its-
way...](https://www.sciencefriday.com/segments/how-gps-found-its-way/)

