
Lithium in drinking water and crimes, suicides related to drug addictions (1990) - known
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/21455358
======
DoreenMichele
When I was homeless and having bad mood swings as a side effect of medical
stuff, I asked my son to look up info and see if there was a lithium and salt
connection (because my condition involves salt misprocessing). He said yes,
there was.

We then looked for dietary sources of lithium. I began consuming beef or pork
with salted potato dishes to prevent the wild mood swings. It worked.

/Anecdata

~~~
hopler
The periodic table strongly hints at a lithium salt connection.

But what made you suspect lithium deficiency?

Pork, beef, and salted potatoes sounds like a standard American diet. It's the
core of the McDonald's menu :-)

~~~
dotancohen
At forty I'm starting to learn chemistry because my 12 year old daughter has
an interest in it. If you have a layman's explanation for why the periodic
table strongly hints at a lithium salt connection I would love to show that to
her. Thanks.

If you have any other insights that one could derive from the periodic table
that would be much appreciated as well. Thank you!

~~~
FakeComments
Sodium chloride is normal salt, and potassium chloride is another salt.

In general, chlorine is missing one electron from its full configuration,
while the first column has a lonely electron in its outermost S-orbital — so
they’re pretty happy to do a dance and make a molecule.

(Which is why HCl is _also_ a thing.)

~~~
dotancohen
Thank you.

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zenon
Meat, seafood, eggs, milk, nuts, legumes and high water content plant foods
(fruits and vegetables) are a generally good dietary sources of Lithium. Fats,
grain-based and sugary foods are poor sources. If you're not lucky enough to
live in an area with a high Lithium water supply, a low calorie density paleo-
type or plant-based diet is probably the best way to ensure an optimal Lithium
intake.

(Tomatoes are a particularly good source IIRC).

~~~
suprfnk
> [..] plant-based diet is probably the best way to ensure an optimal Lithium
> intake.

It looks like a plant-based diet is probably the best way to ensure optimal
intake of most micronutrients. Plants and legumes contain a whole lot of
micronutrients per calorie, especially compared to calorie-rich 'junk' food.

~~~
YUMad
Or a meat and animal fat based diet.

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elchief
And Omega-3 makes you less violent

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25793501](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25793501)

7-Up originally contained Lithium

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_Up](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_Up)

Fish contains both Lithium and Omega-3

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aedron
You can buy trace mineral drops, which contain a fair amount of lithium, as
well as magnesium and other trace minerals. The most common ones are based on
de-salted mineral deposits from the great salt lake.

No idea if this is the best supplement for lithium (but would be interested to
know).

I have been using these for years, primarily because I feel the evidence is
strong for the benefits of a small amount of lithium. As a welcome side
effect, the magnesium has completely alleviated leg jitters while sleeping
(this is a well known effect of magnesium).

~~~
omilu
Wow, not sure if leg jitters refers to restless leg syndrome, but your comment
made me just realise that once I started taking magnesium citrate my restless
leg syndrome has completely subsided. I started taking magnesium to help with
insomnia which I can't say it has helped much but I definitely no longer have
fidgety feet and legs all night.

~~~
thrax
Magnesium definitely helps. Restless leg runs in my family. Another thing to
try: a glass of shweppes tonic water (the kind with quinine in it). That works
for me when RL is so bad I can't sleep. My poor wife has bruises on her legs
sometimes from me kicking her in my sleep :( when I'm awake it feels like leg
cramps. When I'm asleep, I apparently kick like crazy.

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jondubois
This reminds me of the conspiracy theory which claims that the government is
putting chemicals in the water supply to keep people docile and controllable.

~~~
shusson
depending on what country you live in, the government is putting fluoride in
the water supply to keep your teeth healthy.

~~~
SilasX
Heh, I've always thought that was funny: fluoridation is okay, but
lithiumization isn't. What's the difference? Atomic number?

~~~
shusson
yeah I was surprised to discover that a lot of European countries don't seem
to add fluoride for that reason [1]

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation_by_country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation_by_country)

------
jhoechtl
As did getting rid of lead in gas and as a material water pipes have been made
of.

As did gaming consoles.

As did cable tv.

~~~
TylerE
None of those are used as medication for a psychiatric condition, though.

~~~
JamesBarney
But the dose used as a medication is 1000x higher than what you would get from
drinking water.

~~~
lallysingh
Over what period of time?

~~~
JamesBarney
Per day if you're drinking a couple literally of water. Basically it would
take like 2,000 liters of water to equal a single daily dose of lithium.

------
labster
(1990)

Anyone know of newer research on this topic?

~~~
wilkes
[https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-
journal-...](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-of-
psychiatry/article/lithium-levels-in-drinking-water-and-risk-of-
suicide/7C18AC894A0141D3D89B27282AF35DB2)

~~~
acct1771
The below comments are misinformed, thanks.

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lifeisstillgood
I thought that stephen (freakenomics) Levitt has shown (innhis own research)
that this result was insufficient to explain the 1990s crime drop - his theory
that he says fit the data was the Supreme court decision allowing abortion
(Roe v wade) - in other words the teenage criminals of 1990 simply did not get
born

~~~
nwah1
The data involving lithium has generally involved localized effects. You're
talking about the general trends.

And freakonomics didn't by any means solve the question of the general trends.
Here's a decent vox article that explores 16 competing theories that each have
plausibility. Some of which have already been mentioned in the comments here
(such as the end of leaded gasoline)

[https://www.vox.com/2015/2/13/8032231/crime-
drop](https://www.vox.com/2015/2/13/8032231/crime-drop)

------
bigboat
Gwern has a useful page about this:

[https://www.gwern.net/Lithium](https://www.gwern.net/Lithium)

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tcj_phx
Excess lithium causes other problems:

"A recently discovered environmental health problem of potential public health
relevance is the presence of elevated concentrations of lithium in drinking
water []. Lithium has been suggested to be essential for humans [], however,
the evidence is weak. On the other hand, lithium exposure has been associated
with impaired thyroid function in women [], including pregnant women [], in
northern Argentina, where the lithium concentrations in drinking water range
5–1660μg/L. Lithium readily crosses the placenta [] and an inverse association
between maternal blood lithium concentrations during pregnancy and birth
length has also been observed []. Lithium has long been used in the treatment
of bipolar disease[]. The side effects of lithium therapy include impaired
calcium homeostasis, often as hyperparathyroidism []. Whether lithium in
drinking water can have similar effects in the general population is not
known. The calcium homeostasis is strictly regulated because of calcium's
important role in bone formation, intracellular signaling and muscle
contraction." (citations [] omitted)

\-
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26828622](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26828622)
/ [http://www.sverigesnatur.org/app/uploads/2017/10/li-and-
ca-h...](http://www.sverigesnatur.org/app/uploads/2017/10/li-and-ca-
homeostasis-harari-et-al-2016.pdf) (quote from the intro in this pdf)

Lithium, Sodium and Potassium are in Group 1:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table#/media/File:Sim...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table#/media/File:Simple_Periodic_Table_Chart-
en.svg)

Calcium and Magnesium are in Group 2.

Adequate salts are vary important to health. I'd rather have adequate Na, K,
Ca, and Mg than supplemental Li.

tl/dr: I drink salted orange juice (K), eat salted potatoes (K), add salt to
my dairy products (Ca and K), and salt my green vegetables (Mg).

Drugging people with Lithium is an intervention done on the basis of "we don't
know why it sometimes works, but it seems to sometimes help, so we might as
well try it, and if the patient complains their opinion doesn't actually
matter."

------
quotz
Can anyone tell me how can I mineralize my water supply with lithium? Maybe
Lithium rocks that my drinking water should pass through?

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justtopost
Its almost as if lithium dulls reality. This is highly worrying.

------
mediterrenean
Correlation does not imply causation.

~~~
klodolph
Right, but lithium is perhaps one of the more well-studied psychiatric
medications, and the drug with the best evidence for its effects at mood
stabilization.

The question, then is different. We know that lithium has certain theraputic
effects at 0.6-1.2 mmol/L blood concentrations. In this range, it is a
powerful and effective mood stabilizer. What, then, are the effects of lithium
at lower concentrations?

------
swayvil
Pretty obvious. I mean, they give lithium to crazy people to calm them down.

Also, I hear that fluoride in the drinking water does a similar trick. Makes
you think.

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OlympusMonds
This seems dumb. I'm sure poisoning the water supply would also reduce the
crime-rate.

~~~
olliej
I'm sure the implication is "anti anxiety" (I think lithium is that class?)
drugs in water supply reduce crime, rather than anything else

~~~
taurath
It’s a mood stabilizer. At therapeutic doses it makes the entire world seem
grey, and is generally used to help people with enormous uncontrollable
emotional swings. AFAIK no studies have been ever done on “microsdosing” it

~~~
olliej
thanks!

