
Street View, North Korea - gyllen
http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/PU5f5QDJXBLbaLySNgpqMg
======
rdtsc
On the same note, here is a surreal 22 min drive through Pyongyang.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4hLctBvojE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4hLctBvojE)

It pairs well with a few Aphex Twin songs:

Heliosphan:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z4cLmbw6q0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z4cLmbw6q0)

Flim : [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhHkUg-
QCwk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhHkUg-QCwk)

Ageispolis:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOf6ICP3WAg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOf6ICP3WAg)

It is surreal because it almost makes it possible to forget how may people
that regime has starving, worked to death and tortured.

~~~
profmonocle
What struck me was the lack of life on the streets. Anywhere else I'd expect
to see street vendors, buskers, flashy billboards and storefronts, people
laughing, but there's none of that. The streets seem purely functional. But
they're not bleak either - the landscaping is quite nice, actually.

Might just be confirmation bias on my part.

~~~
the_af
According to "A Year in Pyongyang" (written by a Brit, see
[http://www.aidanfc.net/a_year_in_pyongyang_1.html](http://www.aidanfc.net/a_year_in_pyongyang_1.html)),
in the 80s under Kim Il Sung there were plenty of people laughing in the
streets. He describes many workers as having an attitude similar to playful
children, and in particular he describes actual kids as "the pampered citizens
of North Korea": always laughing, always playing, pampered by everyone. Keep
in mind this was an account that didn't downplay the harsh realities of life
in NK. It was also the 80s; things may have changed a lot since then.

So yes, I think it is confirmation bias on your part. Life in NK is probably
not like we think it is. It is bizarre to us, yes, but the average person
probably doesn't live in fear of soldiers raiding their homes, or in dread the
Beloved Leader orders them killed. In all likelihood, regardless of how actual
life in NK is, those are all fantasies on our part; preconceptions of how life
in a weird dictatorship actually is.

I think I, a Westerner, wouldn't like living in NK. At the same time, I really
do not think it's a living hell for its citizens -- certainly not in the
movie-style dictatorship we sometimes imagine it to be.

~~~
DanBC
> At the same time, I really do not think it's a living hell for its citizens
> -- certainly not in the movie-style dictatorship we sometimes imagine it to
> be.

No, NK is a living hell.

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/10...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/10413950/UN-
inquiry-chief-reduced-to-tears-by-North-Korea-brutality.html)

> At a public hearing in London last week, Kim Song-Ju told of his four
> attempts to flee North Korea because of a famine that killed hundreds of
> thousands of North Koreans during the 1990s.

> After crossing the icy Tumen river that marks the border with China in March
> 2006, Kim was caught by Chinese guards and forced back to North Korea.

> He described beatings in a North Korean detention camp and how he was
> ordered to search prisoners' excrement for money they were believed to have
> swallowed.

[http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/17/north-korea-
hum...](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/17/north-korea-human-rights-
abuses-united-nations)

> North Korea's leadership is committing systematic and appalling human rights
> abuses against its own citizens on a scale unparalleled in the modern world,
> crimes against humanity with strong resemblances to those committed by the
> Nazis, a United Nations inquiry has concluded.

[http://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/CoIDPRK/Pages/Commissio...](http://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/CoIDPRK/Pages/CommissionInquiryonHRinDPRK.aspx)

------
themeek
South Korean and United States foreign policy is now reunification with North
Korea, a switch from decades of "Sunshine Policy" under which relationships
with NK did improve.

This is contextualized by a number of current events including the rise of
China and revisionism of Russia, the fight over the Arctic, America's huge
losses in cyberwarfare, the US's push for an Asian NATO, and Japan's
reinterpretation of their Constitution to allow for anticipatory military
strikes (even on behalf of allies) - basically the US's Pivot to Asia.

Policy and strategy thinktanks are discussing with NGOs and CSOs how to
develop insurgencies in NK and how to inform and convince the youth and
unengaged in SK to care about reunification. The US and international allies
plan to target specific people (guards, officials) on human rights violations,
rather than engaging the country diplomatically, in the hopes that an
international criminal court approach can get officials and government
employees to resist or be reluctant to take orders from higher up the chain.
The US will be discussing the evolution of NK with Russia, who they believe
will now be assisting NK at a faster clip with missile development.

An interesting note here is that every year has seen increasing activities
from the US inside of NK. This past year CIA and State Department involvement
in the development of The Interview (as leaked by the SONY emails, both by the
SONY hackers #GOP and by Wikileaks) reveal how tensions are building between
the countries, and how cyberwarfare is a highly asymmetric type of warfare.

We can expect to see a great deal more about North Korea, and need to hope
that, as larger powers attempt to conquer NK and strip its government, that
this can be done as peacefully as possible and without triggering all of the
Cold War tripwires breeding in the world today.

~~~
nashashmi
> We can expect to see a great deal more about North Korea, and need to hope
> that, as larger powers attempt to conquer NK and strip its government, that
> this can be done as peacefully as possible and without triggering all of the
> Cold War tripwires breeding in the world today.

I immediately thought on reading this line of how NK is the last stranglehold
where U.S. Commerce has not infiltrated. In fact, much of the talk of opening
NK up is entirely orchestrated towards bringing in 'capitalism', not
democracy. Democracy is the excuse we seem to be persuaded by. It is the
"magazine" cover that corporate America likes to parade.

And this sickens me. Why? Because people are much less willing to give up
their lives for corporate freedom than they are for a democratic leadership.
And yet so many of our soldiers have died for this very pretense.

~~~
toomuchtodo
> And yet so many of our soldiers have died for this very pretense.

"America is not at war. The Marine Corps is at war; America is at the mall."

[https://i.imgur.com/HsDHUWU.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/HsDHUWU.jpg)

~~~
digi_owl
What struck me was the handwriting.

------
listic
I recognize a Soviet car:
[http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/-74CU7C3XYKmnkAtpVwiQA](http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/-74CU7C3XYKmnkAtpVwiQA)
and
[http://mapillary.com/map/im/StWpR2MuX2z3Xhd1LWd9QQ](http://mapillary.com/map/im/StWpR2MuX2z3Xhd1LWd9QQ),
that's a 1979+ ВАЗ-2105
[https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%90%D0%97-2105](https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%90%D0%97-2105)
It looks (and is) dated, but actually was produced until recently and a common
sight in Russia.

I wonder how they get there.

~~~
colinbartlett
Aaaah ВАЗ aka VAZ aka Lada.

What is the difference between a Lada and a golf ball? You can drive a golf
ball 200 meters.

How do Lada drivers recognize each other? They already met at the mechanic
that morning.

~~~
ExpiredLink
> Aaaah ВАЗ aka VAZ aka Lada.

a.k.a Fiat 124

BTW, Ladas were (still are) exported to the West and did reasonably well as
low-cost vehicles.

~~~
omgtehlion
Fiat 124 is VAZ-2101, later models were designed domestically until VAZ-2108,
which was designed (partially) by Porsche

------
NathanKP
This site's usage of browser is ridiculous. Every time you move forward or
backwards it adds another history entry, making your back button pretty much
useless.

If they want to provide deep linking to a particular map location they should
change the URL without writing to the history.

~~~
udev
First world issues much?

You've been presented with these rare images, that someone probably had to
smuggle out of the country, took care to lay them on the map for your
convenience, and you sit there dissatisfied with how the back button works.

~~~
coderdude
Complaining about the presentation of the linked content is sort of a meme
here.

Just for fun:
[https://hn.algolia.com/?query=%22my%20eyes%20hurt%22&sort=by...](https://hn.algolia.com/?query=%22my%20eyes%20hurt%22&sort=byPopularity&prefix=false&page=0&dateRange=all&type=comment)

~~~
yellowapple
And for good reason. If you give something to a bunch of programmers, any
programming deficiencies will be immediately and more-than-adequately
addressed.

------
mfo
I'm waiting for camp 14 street map : [http://www.amazon.com/Escape-
Camp-14-Remarkable-Odyssey/dp/0...](http://www.amazon.com/Escape-
Camp-14-Remarkable-Odyssey/dp/0143122916)

This is real north korea :-)

~~~
RankingMember
That book was a huge eye-opener to me. It's practically a Nazi-level
concentration camp situation, but because they're only doing it to their own
people and one of their allies is China, the world does nothing.

~~~
criley2
"The world does nothing"

The world would have watched Hitler in peace too, had he not decided to blast
through Belgium into Paris. After that the world watched China end the lives
of tens of millions (as many as, or more than the entire NK population) during
the Cultural Revolution. The world watches as Boko Haram and countless other
organizations murder and rape their way across Africa. The world watches as
Qatar puts on the most impressively visible modern example of slavery, and
what does the world do? Remain excited with the sport and the event. The world
watches as organized crime and cartels wage paramilitary war against the
Mexican people, dropping busloads of kids into mass graves. The world watches
as political islamic extremists take advantage of crumbling governments in
Syria and Iraq to murder, steal, kidnap, and destroy across the region.

Point is: the world watches _a lot_ of things, and when someone like the US
steps in, they are lambasted as no greater than the evil we expect them be
willing to fight.

North Korea remains unmolested purely because it does not molest other
countries. If they do, China will aggressively end that behavior or implicitly
allow the US to so through inaction.

~~~
totemizer
Generally speaking I agree with you. However when you get to the "someone like
the US steps in", I would like to make a few notes. 1\. there is no other
nation "like the US" but USA. Not even China or Russia have the kind of global
presence and military power. Not saying that the US would be able to win a war
against these nations, just pointing out that how you phrased it like the US
taking steps is like any other nations taking steps, and this is simply not
true. 2\. Another issue with the US stepping in, is that from experience when
the US steps in, that doesn't end well:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_re...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions)
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu)

and of course,
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=315&v=0ypIwK6OlFc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=315&v=0ypIwK6OlFc)

I do not in any circumstances blame any leader personally for these things,
and I definitely do not associate the actions of the US with the citizens of
the US, and I also know that even if the US would've been the most peaceful,
least aggressive superpower, some other nation might've done worse things. But
I think that the world would be a much better place if the US would've
"stepped in" in different ways, or even if they would've not done anything of
what in the links are mentioned. (and of course I only scratched the surface
here)

------
avodonosov
The empty roads and this red Lada car remind me of the times of my childhood
in Soviet Union :)

------
sunseb
Notice that there is no ad in the streets !

~~~
orthecreedence
Yes, a breath of fresh utopia!

~~~
thought_alarm
And everyone drive a Mercedes! Magical place.

------
DigitalSea
I can't help but notice great the condition of the roads are (probably due to
the very few cars there). This road in particular looks well looked after. For
a country that has a lot of starving citizens, it is quite surprising. Take a
drive through most streets in Los Angeles and you will experience what a
poorly maintained road feels like in a supposedly first-world country. Same
goes for some roads in my city here in Australia, poorly constructed to the
point where heavy rain is enough to put massive potholes into a main road.

~~~
peletiah
You can see the same in Ashgabat, Turkmenistan - perfect tarmac in the
capital, but outside of it, the road is lousy, even on transit routes (Iran-
Uzbekistan) - we cycled there in 2013:
[http://poab.org/log/c/0/60#2](http://poab.org/log/c/0/60#2)

------
S4M
OK, so North Korea is showing off a part of Kaeson Street, which I guess is
the main avenue in Pyongyang. It looks OK, but I am pretty sure it's just the
facade of the country NK wants to show to the outside; I am not sure the rest
looks so nice. Also, there are almost no cars.

~~~
crdoconnor
It's better than the rest, but even the rest of North Korea sure as hell looks
a _lot_ better than many 3rd world countries.

The western media gives an exaggerated view of the level of poverty there,
partly by subtly pretending that it's still 1994.

------
pdxandi
RIP browser history.

------
usaphp
Wow, streets are so clean, not a single piece of trash. I wish we had this
here in Brooklyn.

------
sim9
The infrastructure is much better than India, Vietnam which happen to be
massive suck ups to USA.

~~~
guard-of-terra
Ten lane roads are not infrastructure unless you have something to ride on
that roads. India and Vietnam provide citizens with all kinds of bikes,
tuktuks and motorollers. NK not so much.

Having said that, no electricity during most of the day also not very
infrastructure-ish.

(If you wanted real totalitarian infrastructure, try Myanmar)

Also, Vietnam fighted for their vision of freedom, won, and now is free to do
whatever pleases.

~~~
sim9
You dont see many cars I guese because the population is low, even on the
streets there are less number of people. By the way the cleanliness and stable
roads are much better than India and Vietname and even some US cities. I dont
agree with your electricity outage comment since you provided no proof of
that.

~~~
saryant
You're taking one tiny stretch of (empty) road as evidence of the quality of
infrastructure across the entire country.

India has 2.53 million kilometers of paved road. Vietnam has 148,000 km. The
CIA's 2006 estimate for North Korea was 724 kilometers.

~~~
psykovsky
Doesn't google/bing maps have NK satellite photos? We could always verify the
CIA number to a great extent if said imagery exists.

EDIT: Gotta love the fog/haze over Pyongyang on Google Maps

[https://www.google.com/maps/place/Pyongyang,+Coreia+do+Norte...](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Pyongyang,+Coreia+do+Norte/@39.0291382,125.7421118,21886m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x357e02dae64f4337:0xd40677e21771aa95!6m1!1e1)

------
hartator
I was expecting Google doing good but I guess I keep being disappointed.

