
Ask HN: How did you overcome and avoid work related burnout? - emailcomp
I&#x27;m completely burnout and engaging in self-destructive behavior recently. Like reporting done tasks even before not even starting them.<p>This is the second time I am this burnout. Last time I had to literally drop everything and take 2 weeks off. I wasn&#x27;t sure if that fixed the problem but because of shame and having to work to pay my bills I slogged through and continued working for another 3 years.<p>I&#x27;m at the same situation yet again where I&#x27;m just about to drop everything and take some time off. I&#x27;m looking for some direction about how to figure out root cause of this. Couple of things I would mention is that I&#x27;m in south east asia, commute is long 2+ hrs, work in small company with lot of stress (nothing too dramatic as lot of others I know have similar lifestyles but they are coping it just fine)
======
namuol
Non-computer hobbies, time with people (including romance, et al), and
exercise.

Some random suggestions:

\- Learn to play Ukulele

\- Cook for yourself more

\- Join a co-ed team sport you enjoy (this actually covers _all 3_ )

\- Talk to your coworkers about doing remote work (even just once per week)

    
    
      * Your commute is seriously long, and that's a lot of wasted time.
    

\- Be honest, even if it scares the hell out of you. _Especially_ when it
scares the hell out of you.

\- Network as much as you can -- it might help to know there are other places
to work that wont stress you out so much.

    
    
      * Try meetup.com to find communities in your field
      * If you're an expat, look for expat groups on Facebook. Lots of networking opportunities involving remote workers.

~~~
emailcomp
I would love to do all of what you proposed. I need to find time to do all of
this which is a challenge. The key is to be smart about finding time and I
haven't been able to do that which has led me to this.

~~~
sjogress
If you want to meet new people, try joining a Couchsurfing meetup.

I was just on vacation in China, South-Korea and Japan, and Couchsurfers in
those places were some of the nicest people I've ever met.

------
go1979
My strong suggestion is never false report anything. It is a rabbit hole that
you don't want to go into. I think the odds that you will get fired for taking
too long on tasks is EXTREMELY low. When you are young, you think everyone has
got their shit together. In reality, there are probably developers out there
who can't code for shit. In one of my first job, I had a "peer" who kept
asking me basic questions until I figured out I pretty much coded up what they
had to do. I didn't mind that ... what shocked me was that this person had an
entry level programming job and no ability to code. I felt bad for that
person.

Anyways ... long story short ... reduce your commute big time. No more than an
hour for sanity. Also, if you are not highly paid in tech and are feeling
burned out, may I suggest you change your field for a bit. Life is too short
to do stuff you hate. And it doesn't seem like you are making a lot of
money/saving up.

Best of luck and stay sane!

------
re_todd
Here are things that worked for me ...

\- reduce caffeine intake; I've changed from 5 to 2 cups of coffee a day, and
try not to have one after 3pm; I feel I can relax when I go home now

\- exercise; I only walk 3 times a week for half an hour each time, but it has
helped tremendously

\- do some non-coding activities when you get home; whether a hobby or
watching TV, getting away from IT and programming for awhile makes me feel
refreshed the next day

\- switch from Java to C# (assuming those are your only 2 options); bigger and
more stressful companies tend to use Java, while the cool medium-sized
companies that are pleasant to work at tend to use C#; of course there are
lots of exceptions

~~~
lsiunsuex
"do some non-coding activities when you get home; whether a hobby or watching
TV, getting away from IT and programming for awhile makes me feel refreshed
the next day"

Cleaning the house / apartment can be very relaxing. It's a task that requires
minimal thought and can be a good workout - saturday I washed our hard wood
floors by hand with just a bucket of soap / water and a big sponge. 2 hours
later my mind was clear as day (or I was high on the fumes from the Lysol
haha)

------
MatthewTavares
My number one piece of advise is to set realistic expectations and speak up
when you don't think others are setting realistic expectations of you and
those around you. This is especially true in the competitive and isolated
environments of startups. I have been in many prolonged 100+ hour a week,
deadline motivated design sessions that left me in severe burnout. Everyone
has different capacities for this but every human mind has a limit. It starts
screaming for things it is not getting sitting in front of a computer monitor
for 16 hours a day. My ability to abuse myself like this has dropped sharply
as well as I have aged.

------
thaumaturgy
Taking a couple of weeks off isn't likely to cure burnout, as you're probably
realizing.

There seems to be a few common trends in burning out:

1\. A sense of being trapped. You can't, for whatever reason, decide to stop
going to work. You have limited options where work and finances are concerned,
or you think you do.

2\. A job that is too demanding. Stress, bad management, too many work hours,
or a seemingly endless stream of dreary monotonous tasks.

3\. The job is not rewarding enough. It either demands too much time or
doesn't offer enough money for you to maintain a healthy work/life balance,
which IMO is the root cause of burnout and why you see so many suggestions for
changing diet or taking up a new hobby or getting more exercise (not that
those are bad suggestions).

I don't know if it's reasonable to tell someone that's truly burnt-out to
start a gym routine or change their diet or spend less time on gaming or
whatever. All of those things require some amount of willpower which is in
short supply when you've been pushed to the limits of the stress levels you
can tolerate.

(Although they're all good habits to develop and should become a routine part
of your life when you're not so stressed out that getting out of bed in the
morning seems like a chore.)

Realistically the only thing you can do to cure burnout is to change your job
situation. It's the cause, you have to address it. Take a look at your
finances and see if there really isn't any way to change your working
situation somehow. Start looking for a new job. Ask for a change of
responsibilities at your current job. Ask for a temporary reduction in hours.

It may be different in your part of the world, but in many places, management
will be motivated to try to help an employee be more productive. Odds are
pretty good that your co-workers and/or supervisors have already noticed that
your performance is suffering. If you think you can approach management and
find a way to change your work situation, you should try.

Alternatively, you can take some vacation time and then spend that time with
equal parts rest & relaxation, doing whatever makes you feel better, and
aggressively looking for new work.

~~~
emailcomp
Thanks for your inputs. I'm leaning towards taking a long break myself. I'm
just afraid I have burnt some bridges by doing things like faking my work
report and it is stressing me out. About health, I'm reasonably healthy and
within my ideal weight/BMI. I feel mentally exhausted right now.

------
dennybritz
Why are you reporting done tasks before starting them? Are you feeling
pressured by your boss to get more done? What would happen if you didn't do
this? Are you scared of something or trying to compete with coworkers?

What are your personal and professional goals? Does your current job help you
achieve them? Whenever I felt burned out it was typically because I couldn't
find any deeper meaning in my work.

Also, how many hours a day do you work? Don't assume others are coping just
fine. It may look this from the outside, but you never know what's really
going on. They'll likely say the same thing about you. A 2-hour commute is a
red flag to me. There has been a bunch of research on how commute time has a
strong influencing on work and life happiness.

~~~
emailcomp
I think the schedule is bit aggressive but I have worked under much more
aggressive schedules in my 20s and now I'm in my early 30s and have a young
family. Also being a senior I expect a bit more of myself. My professional
goals and job role is in line.

Currently I'm working 9hrs + 2 hrs of commute. I find bit resentful towards my
job because I'm not having any much time outside of work to do any
recreational activities. This is something definitely I need to address.

Thanks for your inputs.

------
kremdela
I have been there, and it's hard to see a way out of what is making you
miserable, or alternatively preventing you from being happy. Is it the work?
Is it something in your personal life? Personally, I have found that I've
fought against what I felt like I _SHOULD_ be doing. I should be a hero and
finish some big project. I should work towards being promoted.

Try and evaluate what you actually want, how do you FEEL? I don't know
anything more about your situation, but why do you feel like you have to
commute so far? Why do you feel like you need to stay in your job?

What would you rather do? Most importantly, talk to someone and ask for help.
Talk with a family member, a friend, your boss. It's not in their best
interest for you to burn out and rage quit. They want to help you succeed.

Don't hesitate to reach out via email if you want to chat. I've been there and
maybe can help.

But take this as an opportunity to evaluate what is making you unhappy and
what makes you happy.

All the best!

~~~
emailcomp
"I have found that I've fought against what I felt like I SHOULD be doing." I
think you hit on the key issue here. Whenever I reflect on my choices I feel
this is what I "should " be doing to advance my career in a traditional sense
and trying to live life by default. Few years ago I came across this article
and this pretty much described myself[1]. I haven't been able to act on the
advice given in that article yet. It is time for that now I think.

[1] [http://www.raptitude.com/2012/07/most-lives-are-lived-by-
def...](http://www.raptitude.com/2012/07/most-lives-are-lived-by-default/)

------
ddoscampaign
\- I would move to absolutely close to work as possible, even if that means
renting a closet from someone on craigslist.

\- Consider the day job a _sidejob_ (but of course, be professional). Always
look for a better gig.

\- Be frank, say you need a vacation right now/nearly immediately because
you're unable to keep working at this pace. If they make up flimsy excuses,
stay firm and say something like "I feel like I'm not performing at my top
level because I'm headed in the direction of burning out. I would like you to
help me be recharge my productivity and engagement by finding a way to get
some time off very soon because this will save you from having to fire me and
hire somebody else and me from having to quit because I really want your help
to allow me to get back to firing on all cylinders so we can get X done."

\- Build a paper clock

\- Visit a massage/sauna/spa place

\- Do some random hobby meetups or local community center activities

\- Volunteer at church/nonprofit to help the needy

\- Donate blood

------
MalcolmDiggs
IMHO: The #1 way to avoid burnout is to do work you love.

Do you find job your satisfying? Do you feel like you're making a difference?
Does it give your life meaning? These are the qualities that enable you to get
up and come to work day after day.

Every job sucks after a while (or on certain days, weeks, etc). But if it's
truly work you love, you'll have a good reason to tough it out.

------
IsaacL
I quit my job about 4 months ago feeling the onset of burnout. I was
completely useless for most of that time but have just recently managed to get
back into creative work.

By the way, look up comments by the Hacker News user ahoyhere (Amy Hoy). It
was her comment on the physical causes of burnout that motivated me to quit
when I did. I think that nipped in the bud something that could have become
much worse.

You mention you keep working because of "shame" and "having to pay the bills".
Hypothetical situation: if you had another medical condition, say a heart
attack, and your doctor ordered you to take 3 months in bed, could you do it?
Live off savings, move in with your parents, etc?

If you're really living on the edge financially (no savings, in debt, no
support network) then keep working. But, my theory is that people in that
situation don't feel "burned out" \- they feel stressed and exhausted, maybe,
but they're motivated to keep moving. Burnout is when you're pushing hard on
something that feels ultimately pointless. For me, it was working on a project
I knew was going to fail, a position I could have financially walked away from
at any time, but I stayed because I felt it wasn't socially acceptable to
walk.

After I quit my job I had a background anxiety on what I'd do when my savings
ran down and I needed to find something else. I honestly thought I'd rather
Howard-Roark it and lug boxes around in a warehouse or work as a garage
mechanic than write code for money ever again. (Funnily enough I'm also in SE
Asia, Chiang Mai right now). What saved me was easing my way back into goal-
directed activities, but goal-directed activities which I found intrinsically
fun and rewarding - swimming, playing strategy games, riding a motorbike
around. Eventually I wanted a more challenging project and took 2 weeks to
research and write a long article for an online blog, unpaid but I treated it
as a full-time job.

Just this last week I've finally got back into coding again, and realised that
I enjoy frontend web coding, making something which looks cool and which you
can show to people. I was a very good CS student and used to think I should
work on something more challenging than HTML/CSS/JS, but - frontend web dev is
something I know I can well enough to be useful.

Engineers have a problem that we're always "failing". Our work is so complex
and error-prone. In most other jobs its hard to tell how well you're doing.
Salespeople are one other group who also "fail" often, but salespeople also
get a lot of social validation and buzz when they succeed. Engineers don't,
and combined with their low self-esteem end up feeling they need to hit 100%
accuracy, everything done on time with no bugs, or they're below par. Clueless
and disinterested managers don't help.

Having rediscovered my confidence in one particular specialism (frontend web
dev) is very powerful. If in future I encounter another hairy, undocumented
ball of PHP and JS - I'll simply tell whoever's responsible that I can't fix
it until they fix their workflow. On the other hand, if I find a good team,
with technical (or at least technically-aware) management, realistic goals and
a useful product, I know I can be valuable and useful to them.

I'm so glad I quit when I did. Had I stayed another 6 months by burnout may
have lasted 3 years, not 3 months. But recovery wasn't a linear process, it
was more digging around in my brain until I uncovered my natural sources of
motivation.

~~~
jamesk_au
Amy's post is here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5633063](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5633063)

~~~
emailcomp
Wow, this is so much to think over about. I think you broadened my perspective
on burnout and life in general there. I will definitely reflect on what you
said IssacL said and read up on ahoyhere's comments on this topic. Thanks to
you IssacL and jamesk_au

