
How to land an airplane if you are not a pilot - epochwolf
http://eduardo.intermeta.com.br/posts/2013/1/25/how-to-land-a-plane-if-you-are-not-a-pilot#
======
mcargian
There was a bet on another forum. Could someone with only flight simulator
experience take off, fly the pattern and land a single engine plane on their
first try. I won't spoil it for you, read the thread here:
[http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/34/other-other-
topics/prop...](http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/34/other-other-topics/prop-
bet-can-i-land-plane-first-try-1200028/)

~~~
djloche
here's the "trip report" for that one:
[http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/34/other-other-
topics/prop...](http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/34/other-other-topics/prop-
bet-can-i-land-plane-first-try-1200028/index41.html#post35915547)

~~~
cataflam
Also the trip report from the pilot :
[http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=36010398...](http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=36010398&postcount=722)

(the parent is the trip report from the flight instructor)

Very interesting to see his change of perspective and thought process during
the flight, especially :

 _My confidence level was extremely high prior to the flight, as in I really
thought I was a pick 'em to do this, as in even money. 5 to 1, 20 to 1, 100 to
1?? No effing way; I was sure I had a really good chance at success.

(...)

There is really no other way to describe what happened next: I panicked. I did
quickly bank the plane right to get it back over the runway, and this was pure
habit from the simulator, which mimicked this part of the flight perfectly.
But in the immediate seconds after take off, the first thing I thought was, I
can't do this. (...) But the nose kept generally pointed forward, and the
plane kept its general climb attitude, and I settled down. That is, I settled
down from a state of total terror, to just general major concern._

~~~
Evbn
Sounds like anxiety was the main problem. Drugs may have helped.

------
neurotech1
One minor detail, if a single-pilot is dead, disabled or incapacitated, it
wouldn't be a urgency, with a "PAN PAN" call, it would be an emergency, and
the call would be "MAYDAY".

I know a few pilots who fly medical transfer flights, and sometimes they have
critical medical emergencies in the cabin, and can results in the pilot-in-
command (captain) declaring a medical emergency, although they may not
actually use the word MAYDAY when declaring medical emergency.

Anything that requires EMT trauma response on the runway (eg. life threatening
medical situation), Its probably justified in declaring an emergency. A minor
scrapes or bruises from turbulence doesn't.

~~~
scrumper
> it would be an emergency, and the call would be "MAYDAY".

Came here to say this. An untrained person in control of an aircraft most
definitely justifies declaring an emergency.

I didn't really like the article. Honestly, if you're in a light aircraft and
the pilot conks out you're going to get badly hurt if you survive at all.
Landing a plane feels very weird for a very long time. In a big jet you'd have
a far better chance: your controller can talk you through setting the
autopilot to take you to a big airport, and then have you set autoland. (Of
course, that scenario is pure movie fantasy, whereas the first is actually
quite likely!)

If anyone is interested in this sort of preparation, I'd recommend taking a
$50 intro flying lesson or - better - signing up for the AOPA's "Pinch Hitter"
course, which is designed to teach non-flying spouses of pilots how to do just
this. It's saved a surprising (alarming) number of lives - a lot of private
pilots are fat old men who get heart attacks.

~~~
FireBeyond
"I didn't really like the article. Honestly, if you're in a light aircraft and
the pilot conks out you're going to get badly hurt if you survive at all.
Landing a plane feels very weird for a very long time. In a big jet you'd have
a far better chance: your controller can talk you through setting the
autopilot to take you to a big airport, and then have you set autoland. (Of
course, that scenario is pure movie fantasy, whereas the first is actually
quite likely!)"

That, and a commercial jet is going to have a co-pilot in the cabin, and
possibly at least one person more familiar with a cockpit than you flying in a
jumpseat. If it's an international flight, then there's usually going to be
another flight crew on board, too.

~~~
scrumper
Yep, hence why it's movie fantasy only.

------
HeyLaughingBoy
I would really love to know if anyone without training besides reading
instructions has ever successfully recovered from a spin (or any unusual
attitude) in a real airplane!

The first time I spun an airplane it was by accident (OK, all of them were!):
my instructor let it happen so I could learn and for the first few seconds it
was like "what the fuck did I just do and how do I get out of it?" Even though
I "logically" knew we were in a spin, the disorientation of G-forces, the
screaming from the stall warning, and rapidly rising engine RPM made my lizard
brain very slow to react. Never been happier to hear "I've got the airplane"
coming from the right seat :-)

OTOH, after that first time, "unusual attitude" training became fun. Amazing
what a tiny bit of experience does to the brain.

~~~
sootzoo
Spin awareness is definitely weird at first, and I wholeheartedly agree that
it's less scary after a bit of experience. Question: did you cover spin
recovery? I was under the impression this was basically never done until CFI
or CFII.

~~~
lutorm
My instructor, an old F4 pilot, put us in a spin shortly after practicing
stalls in our C152. First we did plain stalls, no big deal. Then uncoordinated
stalls (which easily rolls the plane full over on its back). After that, he
demonstrated a spin entry and recovery and had me do it. I probably had ~5h at
that point. (But easily hundreds of hours in desktop simulators.)

~~~
stcredzero
On Dogfights, there was an F4 veteran from Vietnam who used to deliberately
spin his F4 as a radical airbrake to force overshoots. The enemy pilot would
overshoot, then he'd recover on their tails.

~~~
lutorm
Interesting. We had no one on our tail at that particular time, so I can't
testify to the effectiveness of that maneuver... ;-P

------
jamesaguilar
I have a friend who is a small-plane pilot -- think Cessenas, things like
that. I asked her, "Would you be able to land a 747 if the pilot died and the
copilot was incapacitated or something crazy happened?" She said, "I think so.
Get on the radio and ask tower where the autopilot switch is. They can land
themselves."

Of course this was not in the spirit of the question but I thought it was an
entertaining answer.

~~~
chmars
What made your friend think that air traffic controllers would be able to give
instructions on how to land an aircraft?

(As a rule of thumb, they don't. And even most pilots couldn't help, only
pilots who know the aircraft in question and if auto land is an option at
all.)

~~~
gnaffle
An ATC will be able to help by quickly getting someone who can help on the
phone or in the tower. Finding someone with knowledge of the particular
aircraft in question is seldom a problem, especially not at an airport.

~~~
chmars
Your very optimistic. There's no standard procedure for this kind of
emergency. Sure, ATC will try to get help, however, depending on the type of
aircraft, it might not be possible to fetch a pilot or another expert to due a
talk down on time. For a common aircraft type it might be possible, for
others, well …

~~~
Tuna-Fish
Manufacturers of large airplanes maintain emergency contact numbers that you
can call when one of theirs is in trouble and you need their help. Typically,
calls involve things like: "I'm looking at the plane on the ground, x looks
like it has broken off, what do I do?" instead of asking for instructions to
land the plane, but I can assure you that they can give that kind of advice on
short notice too.

~~~
pavel_lishin
> _"I'm looking at the plane on the ground, x looks like it has broken off,
> what do I do?"_

Having sat in an airplane seat for two hours while this exact thing happened,
I sure hope their response times are faster if the question is "The pilots are
dead, how do we land the plane?"

------
GiraffeNecktie
Over the years there have been a few joyriders with little or no flight
experience who have stolen planes. Some landed ok some not so ok.
[http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1870&dat=19801116&...](http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1870&dat=19801116&id=ZPowAAAAIBAJ&sjid=O-AFAAAAIBAJ&pg=5609,963782)

~~~
dredmorbius
Just reading that makes me realize how much time has passed.

Can you imagine the criminal prosecution of those kids if they were to do that
today? No "three years of juvie max, likely community service". Particularly
in Texas.

------
lsh123
The biggest thing in flying is not controlling the airplane but understanding
that you are in charge and there is no anyone else who can help you. In the
story mentioned above ([http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/34/other-other-
topics/prop...](http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/34/other-other-topics/prop-
bet-can-i-land-plane-first-try-1200028/index41.html#post35915547)) the guy
explains clearly that he was panicked to death 30 secs after takeoff. And only
the presence of the instructor in the plane helped him to continue. A lot of
time during the initial training is spent on teaching the student to make
decision, take control over the flight and building confidence in student's
ability to fly the plane. Flying the simulator is very different from flying
real plane simply because in real life there is no "reload" button.

~~~
taloft
Absolutely true. The odds of an untrained person safely landing on their first
attempt are astronomical, but that doesn't mean you get to throw in the towel.
If you are now the pilot, you better start acting like one in short order.
First priority is getting the plane straight and level. Pick a distant object
and head straight for it. You can't be afraid of the plane or doing something
wrong. Of course if its on autopilot just leave it alone, but otherwise you
have to take charge and straight and level is the first step. Then get on the
radio and ask for help using plain English. But don't delude yourself thinking
airplanes land themselves these days. It might make people feel better, but
its not true. You are going to need help to have any chance.

------
dendory
People who enjoy this type of article may like a presentation I made a while
back at <http://dendory.net/ALS>

Note that this isn't meant to allow you to land a plane, and honestly I doubt
many people should try their hands at it by just reading this one article
either. I think in most cases it would be better just to have the ATC help you
in how to set the autopilot to land the plane for you, when that's an option.

~~~
chmars
ATC staff is not trained for that. If an ATC can help you with that, it's pure
coincidence due to piloting training outside her or his ATC job.

~~~
dendory
ATC should be trained to get you the help you need if you're a passenger
piloting a plane with a disabled pilot. They can get a pilot to come up in the
tower, or get one on the phone.

~~~
lutorm
There are probably many pilots on the frequency that would be happy to help.
Also, it would probably be helpful to have a "wingman" who can tell you things
like whether you are too high or low, fast or slow, directly.

------
ohazi
What the hell kind of airplane are you flying where you add power to recover
from a stall? Unless you're flying something with a very high thrust to weight
ratio, you should nose down to break the stall, then add power afterwards.

~~~
yan
Adding power is one of the first things you learn when covering stalls during
the private pilot license progression.

~~~
scrumper
In a regular single piston engine aircraft it's nose down, _then_ add power.
You always fix angle of attack first. Same applies to a power-on (eg takeoff)
stall: nose down.

~~~
yan
Concur, nose down first. It's not that no one mentions adding power (which is
what OP implied). Recovery was always pitch down to regain airspeed while
reaching with the other hand to begin adding throttle, but power is still "one
of the first things."

------
stcredzero
Mythbusters:

[http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/mythbusters-
da...](http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/mythbusters-
database/alone-remote-wilderness-go-mad.htm)

Plausible: An instructor could talk you down. However, as other have pointed
out, the controllers would just have someone instruct you to turn on the
autopilot.
[http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0J1RS8gDinQ/T1bYK4qr7QI/AAAAAAAAAQ...](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0J1RS8gDinQ/T1bYK4qr7QI/AAAAAAAAAQs/fGqPmMLZRH0/s1600/otto-
the-auto-pilot.jpg)

------
dhughes
When I took flying lessons the hard part for me wasn't the landing or take off
it was straight and level flight.

I would often find myself too high or in a shallow dive or a turn so my
instructor would have to mention it to me.

It's not instinctive you'd think you would feel it but you don't. He ended up
having to draw a line on the windscreen with a marker where the horizon was. I
used the instruments but mainly it was VFR (visual flight rules) only.

My instructor was very hands on one day as we were heading for the runway he
said "OK you take control and land." I think on my second lesson onward I took
off each time.

Once I was landing trying to beat a small commuter jet (coming from the other
direction!) and he said "See that?" Not the jet but I didn't see anything else
"That over there, 2 o'clock low." Nope didn't see anything. Then I saw it a
big purple hot air balloon a mile or two away very low with evergreen trees
behind it so dark it blended in. So there I was my first or second landing
with a hot air balloon and a jet both in my way.

The flare is the most important part but flaps and speed too of course but if
there is anything to remember it's the flare at the last moment. Stare at the
end of the runway aim for it as if you will crash there then at the last
moment flare (pull back a bit) and you ride the bubble of air.

I can't see how a flight simulator would have helped at all other than the
basics of instruments and the radio, nothing is like the feel of real flight.

------
antsam
"Don't worry guys, I read about landing a plane once on the Internet."

------
epochwolf
I was surprised that turning the plane is much harder than landing it.

~~~
iliis
Just getting it to turn is easy. Getting it right is hard for a few reasons:

First, instead of the first derivation of direction like a steering wheel in a
car the stick/yoke of a plane actually controls the second derivation of the
heading, meaning that pushing it a bit to the right not only causes a turn to
the right but it will turn right faster and faster. So you steer by
pushing/turn the yoke a bit to the right/left and wait until you reached your
desired turning rate. Then you move it back into neutral position and wait
until you (almost) completed the curve. Then you do push it to the _opposite_
side until your plane is level again.

Second, there's not only the rotation along the vertical axis (Yaw) to
consider: You also have Pitch (nose up/down) and Roll (rotation along
longitudinal axis). What you actually did by pushing the stick to side was
rolling the plane which in turn causes it to make a turn because the lifting
force of the wings doesn't point straight up anymore but a bit to the inner
side of the rotation. So you loose a bit of vertical lift which you have to
compensate for because gravity is still the same. To generate more lift you
either have to change your angle of attack or your speed. The second can be
done by giving a bit more throttle but chanigng the angle of attack is
trickier: Your plane hangs 'sideways' in the air so you need both the yoke and
the pedals to get it right.

Third, because the plane makes a turn the outer wing is a bit faster because
it has the longer path (sadly, there aren't any differentials for wings) and
because it is faster it generates more lift. Yet another force to account for.

And the forth thing that comes to my mind (which applies more for gliders than
for motor planes): To fly efficiently (and for other obvious reasons) you
don't want to fly in another direction that your noise points at. Eg. you want
the plane's longitudinal-axis be tangential to the turning curve. In a car
this would be equivalent to skidding and is rather easy to avoid but air
offers a lot less friction. Think of driving around in a hoovercraft...

Now a landing is trivial: as long as the debris is scattered in the direction
of the runway it's considered ok.

~~~
Nrsolis
I've heard this before:

Any landing where everyone walks away is A GOOD LANDING.

Any landing where you can also use the plane again is A GREAT LANDING.

~~~
thesagan
That may hold true if you're the owner of the aircraft, but I'm not so sure
for the hired pilot.

------
Volpe
I feel like this is equivalent to: "how to fix a bug when you don't know how
to program"... I could write as much as you like but there is an explanatory
gap...

~~~
rquantz
It's more like "How to recover and redeploy WebApp X after total server/data
loss when you are not a programmer or sysadmin." There are a defined set of
things that need to be done or could go wrong.

------
jasonhanley
"Landing: This must be the hardest part of flying to teach, because you can
understand the concepts, theory, and techniques fully, and still make an
absolute mess of a landing. So much depends on the "feel" of it, which varies
significantly based on the plane you're in (even of the same type), the
weather, and especially the wind."

I wrote this while it was still very fresh in my mind, right after getting my
PPL: [http://blog.jasonhanley.com/2010/07/learning-to-fly-
airplane...](http://blog.jasonhanley.com/2010/07/learning-to-fly-
airplane.html)

------
bsagert
There seems to be a few pilots on this thread but no one has yet mentioned
trim tabs (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trim_tabs>). The landing speed of a
small plane is slower than cruising speed and the trim tab has to be adjusted
or keeping the nose up will take take more strength than realized. That alone
would cause further panic to an inexperienced person.

------
arthulia
Hopefully this is a fixed-gear aircraft...

------
relic
I use my spare time at work on full-flight military aircraft simulators to fly
around and try things like taking off, landing, etc...it was loads of fun, and
once you were competent at landing a functional aircraft, you could try doing
it with any combination of aircraft faults. I'm fairly confident I could land
a [fully functional] C-130 if my life depended on it. My new challenge is
trying to hook up with a tanker, during which I've caused many a catastrophic
accident.

~~~
eduardordm
This is how you would crash: you would hit the main gear so hard that the rear
would bounce back creating a negative angle of attack, making you do it again
until you break the airplane: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez64Ba98Fto>

Now, if someone instructs you to ignore what you see and hear a GPWS I'm 100%
sure you would be just fine.

The first time I landed a larger airplane I hit the ground so hard it I ended
up going to the hospital because of a herniated disc (had it before the event)
at that time I had 950 hours of flight.

~~~
Zak
Do modern large aircraft simulators fail to properly account for what happens
when you land too hard on the main gear? That seems like exactly the kind of
mistake they'd want to simulate accurately.

~~~
eduardordm
They do, thing is the field of view is not accurate and not 3D, some
simulators have a basic 3D rendering (they change the image at frame rate that
it 'feels' 3D). So you need to rely on instruments to create a mind image of
how high you are.

That actually happens not only in simulators: when you are used to land on
wide runways, the next time you go land on a narrow one you would flare too
low (and approach too low), specially at night.

If interested, read this:

<http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/182402-1.html>

~~~
Evbn
Hmm, I would hope for markers at fixed distances, regardless of the runway
size.

------
noonespecial
During my first flight, my instructor let me try what I could. I was well on
my way to crashing short of the runway when he informed me that I was done.

Mark one datapoint for "would have died".

------
macleodan
He forgot to deploy landing gear.

~~~
emillon
On small planes, landing gear is not retractable.

~~~
mvgoogler
There are plenty of small planes with retractable gear.

The reality is that it doesn't really matter. Landing gear-up is almost always
survivable - for the people at least :-)

Distracting someone with trying to find and operate the landing gear would
probably be as likely to cause problems as it would be to help.

------
neya
[Personal rant] - I'd much rather get a parachute and jump the heck out.
Probability of my survival would be much higher, then, I guess :D

~~~
dsl
Unless you have an aircraft designed to be jumped out of, you wouldn't be able
to open the door at speed.

~~~
iliis
Some modern small aircrafts (think Cessna instead of 747) actually have a full
plane recovery system: a chute for the whole thing :)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_Recovery_Systems#Pro...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_Recovery_Systems#Products)

------
robomartin
Yikes! Horrible article.

I took some flying lessons a long time ago but decided I'd rather let someone
else fly me where I want to go on a much larger plane.

I have been designing, building, flying and crashing model airplanes and
helicopters of all types since I was a kid. Slow, fast, gliders, jets, three-
foot to ten-foot wingspan. I've even done the in-plane FPV camera thing
--where you mount a camera in the plane, radio the video down to the ground
and wear goggles that make you feel like you are inside the plane.

Flight simulators have never felt real. Never. Even with zero wind. And, if
you do have wind, and, in particular cross-wind, landings can be a handful if
you don't know what you are doing. And, yes, these are toys --sometimes
$10,000 toys, but toys nevertheless-- yet the laws of physics are pretty much
the same (save some scale effects).

I would never consider doing what this guy did. Kudos for having the stupidity
to try it. I wouldn't. I've seen too many very nice model airplanes in the
hands of experienced flyers get trashed on landing. Anyone can take off with a
little instruction. Flying, turning, maintaining altitude, lining-up with the
runway at the right place, time and speed and flying it in are entirely
different matters.

I also have a relative who flew 747's. He couldn't land a model airplane to
save his life. I put him on FPV and he'd grease the thing in. Interesting.

~~~
eduardordm
I decided to delete my last comment because I don't fully understand your
point. My stupidity for trying? I've been flying for 20 years! and have been
flying models since a kid, my father is also a pilot and taught me to fly RC
planes when I was young, at 11 I was flying his (real) cesnna 150 without
intervention.

No one could ever take off without some instructions, try to use your left
foot to brake your car and see what happens.

~~~
robomartin
Are you the author of the original article?

I think I screwed up my post. It actually refers to the guy who tried to fly
and land the Cessna using his flight sim experience. That was dumb.

As for your article, good attempt but what do you think are the chances that
someone will remember all of that without conducting drills once or twice a
week? In other words, what you do in flight school.

I have enough trouble having people remember to manage energy and fly --as
opposed to "drive"-- a model airplane around. That's why I start everyone with
a pure glider (no motor). With such an approach they have no choice but to
learn what flying is really about and manage energy at all stages. Flying is a
beautiful and complex art.

------
gnu8
To turn the plane 180 degrees, wouldn't it be easier to use the compass than
try to find a reference point on the ground?

~~~
serge2k
Compass lags, trying to keep a heading via the heading indicator is trickery
than it sounds. Ground references are the way to go.

~~~
iliis
It can even do the opposite and precede your actual orientiation.

------
cmsmith
The confusion between 'break' and 'brake' was especially unfortunate here. I
was never sure whether an action was going to cause a wheel to fall off or to
slow the plane down.

------
cynest
A few years ago at AOPA I attended a seminar on this. Turns out the success
rate is extremely high provided you are able to get in contact with someone on
the ground.

~~~
scrumper
I think this article would have been a lot better if the full word count had
been devoted to operating the radio. I don't think the author even mentioned
121.5 (let alone the transponder.) A few pictures of the control yoke PTT
button and some common radio panels would help.

~~~
dsl
Absolutey. Here is a far better version of how to land a plane if you are not
a pilot:

STEP 0: Don't touch anything.

STEP 1: Find the transponder. It looks like one of these: [http://www.free-
online-private-pilot-ground-school.com/image...](http://www.free-online-
private-pilot-ground-school.com/images/transponder.jpg) or
<http://www.funkwerk-usa.com/funkwerk/trt800h/trt800h-lg.jpg>

STEP 2: Set it to 7700 (emergency) or 7500 (hijacking)

STEP 3: Put on the pilots headset and wait, someone will start talking to you
and explain how to respond.

STEP 4: If you don't hear anything for an extended period of time try to
figure out why the radio doesn't work. Then start to panic and put into
practice crazy things you read on the internet.

~~~
neurotech1
How about these points in order:

AVIATE: Keep the plane straight & Level.

NAVIGATE: Don't hit anything, turn to avoid any mountains etc, otherwise stay
straight & level until ATC/Other pilot assistance directs you to the runway.

COMMUNICATE: Broadcasting MAYDAY on any common channel is a good first step.
CTAF (Common Traffic Aerial Frequency) used by light VFR aircraft. ATC/Tower
is also monitored. Most likely the current channel is good to start with.

DO NOT Squawk 7500 on the transponder unless a hostile action (hijacker etc.)
caused the pilot to become disabled. Squawking 7500 results in armed fighter
jets scrambled and SWAT teams meeting you on the runway. Squawking 7700 is the
emergency code to use in case of a disabled pilot.

Aviate, Navigate, Communicate concept is drilled into every student pilot.

~~~
dsl
> into every student pilot

Someone who does not know how a plane works and does not have a conscious PIC
shouldn't touch anything without direction from the ground unless a collision
is imminent.

I assumed the (hijacking) and (emergency) labels were pretty obvious.

~~~
Zak
It seems to me that going too long without touching the controls would come
with a significant risk of the plane doing something uncontrolled and
undesirable, such as entering a spiral dive or simply exceeding its design
speed. The converse seems to be a high probability of an inexperienced person
overcontrolling and making the situation worse.

------
hakaaaaak
Quick, someone write a site that indexes all of the most enduringly
informative posts to HN, and include this pls.

------
maaku
Why isn't this posted in cockpits?

------
stephengillie
Where are the self-flying airplanes?

------
HalcyonicStorm
Flying Flame attack!

