
The Return of the Stylus - npguy
http://statspotting.com/2012/12/the-return-of-the-stylus/
======
DigitalTurk
Not including a stylus with the iPhone and the iPad was brilliant from a
marketing perspective. And not in a bad way by any means. It educated
developers. It taught everyone that if a UI requires a stylus then there's
something wrong with it.

The problem is that this idea shouldn't be taken to its logical extreme. Steve
Jobs’ phrase "If they include a stylus, they did it wrong"—or was that Bob
Marley?—is analogous to "If your website requires a keyboard, it's broken".
That is, it's a good design principle but you obviously don't want to apply it
when the user wants to enter text (in your website) or scribble a note (in
your tablet app).

So insofar this article points out that it's easier to write notes using a
stylus than using a finger, it's kicking in a wide-open door.

But I'm not convinced that it's easier to use a stylus than a finger to tap
buttons.

Unfortunately this article doesn't go into this issue. In fact, it
unnecessarily obscures it: "Try taking a screenshot, scribble some notes on
that, and email it. Do it on a touch-only device, and then try it on the Note
II. You will see the difference."

Mind you, I would love it if the iPad had support for styluses. I can
definitely think of an application or two that would benefit! What I don't
want, though, is to end up wondering where I put my stylus all the time.

~~~
marcosdumay
> But I'm not convinced that it's easier to use a stylus than a finger to tap
> buttons.

I have an stylus based ereader. It is great to get some document and make
notes all over it. For example, it is great to put a circuit diagram in it,
and then redraw lines, add parts, draw arrows, etc. It feels like paper,
except that it's slower and easier to erase.

You don't get that with a keyboard.

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mtgx
Steve Jobs only really meant that if you need a stylus for most tasks on your
device, you're doing it wrong. But I think pens with active digitizers can be
very useful for certain tasks, and if Apple were smart about this, they'd
enable it in a future iPad and sell such pens as accessories to the iPad.

They know very well that they have a ton of artists using iPads in their
userbase, and a lot of drawing apps, too. I don't think they have a good
reason for not making active digitizer pens for their iPad other than the fact
that they don't want to seem like hypocrites after Steve Jobs' comment. But
hey - it's already too late for that. They've already made a 7" tablet, too -
so they _are_ hypocrites - and might as well do this, too.

I think we'll see Samsung expand on the pen idea in the coming year (rumors
point to Galaxy S4 having a stylus, too), and I intend to buy a next-gen
Galaxy Note 10.1 tablet next year, as well as recommend one for a fashion
designer friend. I wish they were Google-blessed Nexus devices, so I don't
have to deal with the Samsung-only custom apps for the S-pen, but it doesn't
look like Google cares too much about active digitizer pens right now, and
Samsung's Note devices and their S-pen are currently the best on the market
for this.

~~~
pmichaud
As what I would describe as a "semipro" artist, I would not use an ipad to
draw, because the latency isn't good enough yet. People might play with it,
but no professional can use it until the latency is about 10 times better than
it currently is.

~~~
SoftwareMaven
Some would beg to differ: <http://ipadsinart.weebly.com/professional-ipad-
artists.html>

~~~
rednukleus
It's not exactly precision art is it? It's only even mildly interesting
because it's art under a heavy constraint. You could paint a picture using a
3' log instead of a paintbrush if you want to, but that doesn't make 3' logs a
particularly good artistic instrument.

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mgkimsal
It might be that - hang on for this - some tasks are better suited to stylus
and some to finger pointing. Having used stylus on my Palm VII, I was
basically 'meh' about it - it worked, but wasn't ideal for many tasks. We may
be entering a period where computing power and resolution make stylus-input
superior for certain tasks.

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larsberg
I really miss the stylus input on the old NEC Versa Litepad tablet. Combined
with its great handwriting recognition, I could actually do some serious
editing of PDFs in Acrobat and writing in OneNote. Contrast that with an iPad
(mini and maxi) and GoodReader, where it's slow and laborious to even mark up
a PDF, and I've tried several different stylus products.

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meaty
Followed by the return of the mouse and back to ground zero where to be honest
we were all quite happy to start with before everyone decided to rip off star
trek the next generation.

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film42
This article is right and wrong at the same time. There are numerous
accessories for iOS and Andriod devices that make daily use easier, like the
Bluetooth keyboard and metallic tip gloves. While the stylus is useful (at
least according to the article), I think it should really be classified as
another accessory and not a revolutionary blast from the past. Also, to the
author's challenge of taking a screenshot and writing a note on it I respond,
1) this isn't a practical use case and 2) there are numerous apps that add a
note or caption to your photo with greater legibility than my own penmanship.

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anonhacker
I have the note and i would have to agree with the article. I don't think
"scribble some notes on a screenshot" is supposed to be a typical use case, it
is just one that will demonstrate the benefit of a stylus quickly.Having used
the stylus for a while I definitely prefer it and tend to miss it on other
devices.

The stylus does have some lag to it and you have to get used to not seeing
your writing show up immediately. When you see your writing hasn't showed up
yet you tend to stop or slow down which isn't necessary, just keep writing and
trust it will show up. I know that sounds terrible but it's really not.

~~~
rayiner
I found it pretty terrible, but I didn't really commit to using the device,
just played with it for awhile in the store.

Which is of course why the iPhone was so brilliant. Current stylus technology
still can't create a paper-like, pleasant writing experience, while capacitive
touchscreen technology can create a pretty good direct manipulation
experience. People aren't going to commit to getting over the learning curve
after the unpleasant in store experience just because of the theoretical
advantages of the stylus.

~~~
pm90
Its not just the stylus technology: the screen themselves are glass. How often
have you written on a glass? Maybe with a marker...

I'm used to the textured feel of paper and the pleasant friction b/w the pen
and paper when writing on it. On glass, it just slips... However, I guess
that's just something of a habit. Maybe for future generations, brought up
with touchscreen enabled laptops, it will feel more natural.

~~~
rayiner
It's not just habit, writing is just easier on paper. The texture of the paper
does two things while you're writing: provide continuous feedback and provide
resistance. Delicate movements are a little bit easier when you have some
resistance to work against. That's why steering wheels these days still have a
lot of push back, even though they're electronic and could be designed to turn
much more easily. Moreover, the feel of the pen moving across the textured
paper gives the body an additional source of information about which direction
the pen is moving in and how fast. This allows for more precise control versus
just depending on sight and proprioception.

~~~
stcredzero
_> That's why steering wheels these days still have a lot of push back, even
though they're electronic_

I thought power steering was still hydraulic. Are you saying we have "fly by
wire" cars?

~~~
rayiner
Many popular cars have electric power steering (most new Toyotas, many Chevys,
even some BMWs). A sensor monitors the position of the wheel and drives an
electric motor to turn the wheels. They're not completely fly by wire, because
the motor augments a traditional mechanical linkage, but that goes back to
wanting to maintain the feel of mechanical steering (and also to provide
redundancy).

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antidoh
I loved and miss the stylus on my palm devices. Accurate, natural, and you can
use your fingernail if you lose the stylus.

Touch always felt like a blunt instrument to me, and blind because my finger
hides what my finger is touching.

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bayan09
I agree that the stylus needs to come back. There are just too many tasks that
could be better implemented on a tablet with a stylus to ignore it. It should
also be noted that Apple flip flops all the time. If they want the iPad to
truly be the defacto tablet for the next decade, incorporating stylus input is
going to be important. I have the More/Real stylus (<http://more-real.com>)
and it works really well, but it's still technically a hack for your finger.

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hmexx
_The Return of the Stylus_

Can think of a certain company crossing its fingers, hoping to hear this
statement repeated oft in 2013... what with the impending release of the
Surface Pro

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mdznr
The interface for iPhone and a lot of iPad apps would not benefit from a
stylus. Buttons are huge. That Samsung device has teeny tiny buttons which
requires a stylus. There are only two things I think that can benefit from a
stylus and that is handwriting (do we really need to do this? It's slower,
harder to read, and very constrained on a small device) and drawing (probably
only necessary on iPad). Styluses also require you to hold the device in a new
way. No more one handed use. You have to hold the device flat on a surface or
in the palm of your secondary hand while you use this stylus in your dominant
hand to point. Also, unlike a pencil or pen on paper, the small screen will
not allow you to rest the side of your hand on a surface. I can't imagine how
tiring it will be to keep your hand in this position for more than a few
moments. I think you're mistaking something being different and temporarily
fun to explore from something actually being better.

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brador
I have a stylus for use on my iPad ($1 on Ebay).

Using a stylus is better for drawing and browsing, but typing is still much
faster with fingers. Since using an iPad involves a lot of typing and it's
pushed as a communication device, I guess that is why Apple don't push the
stylus.

~~~
wazoox
That's why Palm devices had Graffiti, which is wayyyyy better than typing on
this stupid on-screen-always-too-small keyboards (Gad I hate those. I really
hate typing on a screen).

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rayiner
What kind of use case is "scribble some notes on a screenshot?" If I want to
talk about the contents of a screenshot, I'll just type in a note along with
the email. Even with the S-Pen, handwriting isn't really legible unless you
write awkwardly slow.

~~~
andybak
OK then. Draw a couple of arrows on a screenshot or annotate/highlight some
parts.

That's a pretty common usecase. Common enough for a whole class of apps such
as Skitch etc.

~~~
rayiner
You can do that just fine with your fingers.

~~~
nitrogen
You can eat just fine with your fingers, yet most people prefer utensils.

~~~
DigitalTurk
Not in India and Africa. And even in the West there are many dishes that
people prefer to eat with their hands.

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wzdd
Weird article. "Try taking a screenshot, scribbling some notes on it, and
emailing it." Well, sure, styluses are good at things suited to styluses, such
as handwriting. Try taking a screenshot, writing 500 words of commentary on
the UI, and emailing it -- that's going to be far easier with a keyboard. Does
that mean keyboards will be the next hot accessory?

Also, when Jobs did his big reveal, many stylus-based devices had awful
resistive screens ("awful" and "resistive" both being descriptive of the
screen -- resistive can be good). That's what the accuracy comment was aimed
at.

~~~
jerf
"Does that mean keyboards will be the next hot accessory?"

Errr.... yes? I assume you meant that as some sort of bizarre out-there
statement that was obviously wrong, but I don't think it is. I'm seeing more
of the keyboard covers in my local iPad users set and I doubt they are going
to be an aberration for long.

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ttflee
If the stylus input devices are indeed so useful, why weren't mice replaced in
the desktop market?

~~~
edtechdev
If mice are so useful, why weren't steering wheels replaced in the car market?

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saljam
My main gripe with scribbling down using a stylus is the huge lag that seems
to exist between the stroke and the curve appearing on the screen. It seems to
me that that's the thing that keeps me going back to pen and paper.

~~~
colinplamondon
There was a great video on this by Microsoft Research- basically, you have to
get the lag down to 1ms for it to feel like you're really writing or moving a
physical object. The iPhone 5 is 23ms according to a quick Google.

[http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/9/2856795/microsoft-high-
perf...](http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/9/2856795/microsoft-high-performance-
touch-research)

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kunle
> "Try taking a screenshot, scribble some notes on that, and email it."

This only matters if such a multi-step flow is a large human need. I'm not
sure it is.

~~~
stcredzero
If this was quick and easy, I could see it becoming a major form of
communication. Since everyone has a computer/camera/Internet communicator in
their pocket, the reason people don't is probably because the interface leaves
something to be desired.

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sublimit
Speaking as a smart phone user, I hope the mechanic of using your fingers as
the control scheme for small flat surfaces will be retrospectively seen as a
failed experiment, and eventually forgotten. I find the lack of tactile
feedback to be awkward and a source of numerous mispresses. I don't think it's
anything I'll ever "get used to", and hopefully I won't have to.

