
HBO No Go - cwan
http://www.avc.com/a_vc/2012/08/hbo-no-go.html
======
twoodfin
Do you still get the video on the iPad? If so, this feature makes some sense.
If you've got AirPlay speakers, they'd be a great substitute for the crummy
built-in ones.

Clearly HBO is walking a fine line here: The cable companies that partially
subsidize them in order to lure subscribers don't want you walking over to
your (non-subscriber) friend's house and throwing "Game of Thrones" up on the
big screen via Apple TV.

The whole "let me pay for it!" debate has been well-covered elsewhere: In
short, HBO probably couldn't make a living charging individual subscribers for
content, especially on a per-show basis. How could they produce new material
without the guarantee of N-million monthly subscribers? And
cable/fiber/satellite companies who help promote their service?

~~~
Argorak
Airplay has an audible delay that is hard to compensate over 2 devices, so the
feature makes no sense at all.

~~~
furyg3
Maybe I don't understand what you're saying, but iOS corrects for the audio
delay of AirPlay audio streaming.

I don't have an AppleTV, but I do have an AirPortExpress. Streaming video to
iOS with audio on my home stereo works great, with the video on the device
synced with the AirPlay audio.

~~~
Arelius
Yeah, I have no idea what he is talking about, I have two AirPort Expresses,
and an AppleTV, and AirPlay is the only wireless audio protocol I've yet found
that actually gets the audio sync right, every time.

~~~
vsl
Not every time. Maybe on Apple-only hardware (although I think audio from
games wasn't synced perfectly when I tried with AirPort Express).

But if you use audio equipment with licensed AirPlay made by companies who
don't get these computers thingies, such as Philips or Marantz, it's worse. My
Marantz AV receiver introduces 6-or-so seconds(!) of delay into music playback
and that's one of the better ones.

~~~
Arelius
Ahh, I imagine it's completely likely that non-apple hardware just ignores any
of the sync commands.

------
mortenjorck
This isn't just HBO Go, or even just third-party apps – first-party video
playback on iOS will, depending on hidden flags from iTunes store purchases,
arbitrarily disable video over AirPlay.

A friend and I found this out the hard way one afternoon when we decided to
rent Ridley Scott's Alien, in anticipation of seeing Prometheus. He pulled up
the store on his iPhone, found the movie, selected Rent: HD, and signed on to
my wi-fi network, my Apple TV appearing on his iPhone without a hiccup. So
far, pure Apple seamlessness – until he selected the AirPlay output. The audio
played back over my speakers, but the video remained on the 3.5" screen.

Thinking resourcefully, I suggested he try AirPlay mirroring. This, at last,
gave us the "fuck you, consumer" from the studio in explicit form: a message
appeared on his phone saying the AirPlay display couldn't be trusted.

We both resolved never to use the iTunes store for movies again.

~~~
rmc
Pirate it. You get a higher quality product.

~~~
jhenkens
This is why I don't get Hollywood and all of the cable providers. It isn't
like pirating software, where it is usually an inferior product due to updates
and the like. Instead, pirating video (movies and TV) is truly the best form
of the product you can get. Music finally went the right way after a handful
of years full of DRM - we can only hope the same will happen with video.

~~~
rmc
Sometimes pirated software off better. Some games might have DRM and require
an always on internet connection to authenticate so you can play. Pirated
games might have no such limitations.

------
w1ntermute
It's amazing what people will put up with. I built a media center PC running
Windows 7 using a guide like this[0]. It was the best decision I made. I just
torrent content on my desktop, access it over the network share on my HTPC,
and everything's good to go.

You can get a 10' UI using XBMC if you want, and you can access the full
versions of YouTube, Netflix, Hulu, (and HBO Go, I presume) etc. - no
restrictions. No transcoding, no syncing - if it works on your PC, it works on
an HTPC.

0: [http://lifehacker.com/5936546/how-i-built-the-media-
center-o...](http://lifehacker.com/5936546/how-i-built-the-media-center-of-my-
dreams-for-under-500)

~~~
ricardobeat
Yes, because downloading torrents + network share is just the same as
streaming + airplay.

This guy already has a cable set top box _plus_ an Apple TV that can stream
from HBO _and_ network sharing. Airplay is another matter, you can't
mirror/stream from your mobile to your HTPC.

~~~
w1ntermute
> Yes, because downloading torrents + network share is just the same as
> streaming + airplay.

No, it's much better. It's free and completely automatic. Set up an RSS feed
for your favorite shows and tell XBMC to monitor the download directories.
It's a truly breathtaking experience.

> This guy already has a cable set top box plus an Apple TV that can stream
> from HBO and network sharing.

Compared to a full-blown HTPC, an Apple TV (or any other device without a full
OS) is very limited in its functionality.

> you can't mirror/stream from your mobile to your HTPC.

Oh really? This article would beg to disagree: [http://www.redmondpie.com/how-
to-mirror-your-ios-or-android-...](http://www.redmondpie.com/how-to-mirror-
your-ios-or-android-device-to-your-pc-mac-for-the-ultimate-big-screen-gaming-
experience/)

~~~
malyk
It's also illegal and some of us actually believe you should pay for other
peoples creative work.

~~~
jhenkens
I believe I should pay as well. And I happily would pay the $120 monthly the
cable company wants for two years if I could get a license that let me
download all the content via newsgroups and have non-DRMed MKV's that I can
use wherever I want for my PERSONAL use. I do not want to pay for Comcast's
awful distribution, I want to pay for a license to download the content for my
personal use, regardless of what distributor I use.

~~~
lukifer
I have long thought that there was a potential insurgent business model here:
sell a lifetime license to a particular piece of content, which the user is
now allowed to acquire by whatever means they choose. In essence, you pay for
the content holder to waive their right to sue, and nothing more.

It'd be a tough sell for Big Content, but once it generated sufficient revenue
for indie and niche stuff to prove the model, eventually they would come
around if it meant an excuse to charge you for the White Album yet again. You
could also collect pledges or pre-payments from users so that they could put a
dollar value on how much revenue they're missing out on.

------
js2
The reason for this is that iOS allows an app to opt-out of video AirPlay, but
not opt-out of AirPlay audio [1]. HBO has opted out of video AirPlay most
likely to satisfy its cable provider partners who provide the vast majority of
its income[2].

1\.
[http://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/AudioVi...](http://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/AudioVideo/Conceptual/AirPlayGuide/Introduction/Introduction.html)

2\. <http://dcurt.is/hbo-forbes-journalism>

~~~
mikeryan
This restriction likely comes from the studios which provide the content
(these deals usually contain DRM restrictions on how the content can be
distributed), not the cable operators.

~~~
MatthewPhillips
Likely comes from cable companies as well, they don't want you watching
television except through their boxes (hence cableCARD never taking off).

~~~
mikeryan
_they don't want you watching television except through their boxes_

This is entirely untrue. Most cable companies have apps which allow you to
stream content via iPad or even Xbox apps.

The whole HBO Go thing is part of a cable wide initiative called TV Everywhere
which is entirely about letting you watch your TV content on alternative
devices as long as you have a cable subscription. Streaming content is
actually a win for the cable operators because it offloads a lot of work from
their cable infrastructure. They're actually fine with you streaming content
via their network's services as long as you're paying your cable bill.

~~~
MatthewPhillips
Excuse my lack of clarity; when I said television I mean the television
screen. They are perfectly fine with you watching HBO Go on your iPad but they
don't want you watching things on your television except through their cable
boxes. Because the cable box contains advertising for other channels you don't
currently have and HBO Go does not.

~~~
mikeryan
I know, but this info isn't correct. The cable operators are fully allowing
the networks to stream to "Over-The-Top" boxes gaming consoles and connected
tvs. The two requirements are:

1\. Full DRM Solution, this mostly means Widevine or PlayReady DRM. This
support is lacking on some notable platforms. The most recent Roku devices
don't support full DRM the best they provide is encrypted HLS which can
fulfill the DRM requirements for some operators but not all.

2\. Authenticated Users, Users must be authenticated with their cable
operator. This usually means also having the necessary infrastructure for
limiting the number of registered devices etc.

These present is a fairly complex infrastructure component from the operators
and HBO Go has been leading the way in meeting these two requirements. This is
why you can stream _right now_ to HBO Go on the Xbox and on Samsung SmartTV
connected TV platform.

I don't say this as an interested observer, but an active participant I run a
services company that actively works with Broadcast Networks on streaming to
these platforms. We're literally doing this work _right now_ with large
broadcasters.

EDIT: I apologize, I edited this to remove some snark.

~~~
MatthewPhillips
Awesome, thanks for your insight.

------
BklynJay
Not a week goes by where I don't hear from someone who wants to watch HBO GO
on their Apple TV or output from their iPad to the tv. The idea that the
consumer has the right to view their legally paid-content where they want and
how they want is slowly but surely becoming a reality. It's just a matter of
time before HBO caves. Frustrating in the interim though.

~~~
grabeh
There may be alternative services which do not look to place any restrictions
on where content can be viewed, which will place pressure on HBO, however, as
long as a particular provider produces unique desirable content that they are
comfortable monetising in specific ways, whatever restrictions that provider
wants to place on viewing will remain. It may not make much sense in the
example, but the idea still applies.

When you buy content from that provider, you agree to their terms and their
methods of distribution. As such, there will never be a right to view content
wherever you wish, unless the particular provider distributes in such a
manner.

~~~
chris_wot
By "alternative services" I assume you are referring to BitTorrent? :-)

~~~
ricardobeat
NetFlix is one.

------
parfe
I have a Galaxy S3. I bought an MHL -> HDMI adapter, hooked up to my tv and
started up HBO Go for a test run. On Android they don't even bother with an
audio only implementation. The app simply crashes.

Until this article I assumed the developer sucked. Now I'm not so sure the
crashing is a bug.

------
sudonim
Roku has the HBO Go app on it, but will probably fail you too.

Subscribers log in to HBO Go with their username and password from their cable
subscription, not something they get from HBO.

Time Warner Cable blocks using the Roku with HBO Go. When you try to
authenticate the device, they slap you on the wrist and say no.

You can however, airplay from the HBO website in Mountain Lion, but I find
things get a little out of sync.

~~~
ricardobeat
Why do american regulatory agencies put up with this crap? One provider
shouldn't interfere with another (much less block it).

~~~
rhizome
The regulatory agencies are staffed almost entirely with people who used to
work at the networks. They're in on it.

------
britta
If you happen to have a jailbroken iPad 3rd generation, iPad 2, or iPhone 4S,
you can install UnrestrictPremium to work around this limitation:
<http://www.idownloadblog.com/2012/08/09/unrestrictpremium/>

------
eddieroger
Calling it broken is a relative statement. On a technical level, they had to
do something to prevent mirroring from functioning as the article wants. So,
they implement AirPlay, but audio only. But, I'd argue this works exactly as
HBO wants it to, so it's not broken, it just doesn't do what you want it to.

HBO's business model isn't terribly friendly to watching their programming on
a TV unless it comes via cable or one of their heavily licensed, and generally
stationary, partner products. You are a lot less likely to take a Roku or Xbox
to a friends' house to watch Game of Thrones, but you always have your iPhone.
Of course you could have them over and this falls apart, but you could do that
with their cable feed as well. They're trying to slow the bleeding since they
can't stop it.

~~~
Domenic_S
> _But, I'd argue this works exactly as HBO wants it to, so it's not broken,
> it just doesn't do what you want it to._

You're nitpicking. It's broken in the colloquial sense -- the app makes an
implicit promise and then delivers only partway. That it was built to spec is
immaterial; if the spec is "broken" (anti-user, antipattern, etc) it doesn't
matter if you build exactly to spec... it's still broken.

~~~
eddieroger
No I'm not, and I think you are. Just because it doesn't do what you want
doesn't make it broken. That's like buying a car, but being upset it can't
drive distances with a flat tire. It's not supposed to do that, so other than
a faulty tire, the car isn't broken. And the spec isn't either - they aren't
being anti-user, because they don't have to release the app at all. I can come
up with a dozen business cases for audio only (the iPad/iPhone speakers being
mono only for one, being a crappy speaker for two), but they are interests to
protect. This app is a compromise that you don't have to use, not meant to
replace the television experience, but be an additional screen for occasional
viewing.

~~~
rhizome
Does the car in your example prevent you from changing the tire to one that
isn't flat? Does it _actually come with a flat tire_ from the dealership? _

------
revscat
OP seems like exactly the kind of customer that the cable industry would want
to bend over backwards to make happy, not unnecessarily hamstring. He has all
the devices and subscriptions he ostensibly needs, and appears to be a Good
Cable Citizen. The fact that HBO feels it necessary to restrict him in this
way smacks of hubris.

------
pwthornton
I've written about the issues with HBO Go extensively. It's a terrible app
that has a lot of promise, but it's really hampered by old-media ways of
thinking about content distribution. The app is intended to be a second, third
of fourth screen in your house, nothing more. That's not what the name
implies, nor does that fit the reality of how many people consume content
today.

You can't cache/download shows to use on the go, meaning that your streaming
ability requires a connection and a good one at that:
[http://interchangeproject.org/2012/05/14/game-of-thrones-
loo...](http://interchangeproject.org/2012/05/14/game-of-thrones-looks-
terrible-streaming-over-hotel-wifi/)

Why is HBO Go not a to-go service?
[http://interchangeproject.org/2012/05/10/why-is-hbo-go-
not-a...](http://interchangeproject.org/2012/05/10/why-is-hbo-go-not-a-to-go-
service/)

Here is a podcast discussing the issues with HBO Go:
[http://interchangeproject.org/2012/05/22/episode-38-to-go-
or...](http://interchangeproject.org/2012/05/22/episode-38-to-go-or-not-to-
go/)

Essentially, what I'm trying to say is that HBO Go is a needless usability
mess.

~~~
kin
It's a streaming service, no streaming service offers to-go. Is there Netflix
To-GO? No. But, I can connect to my hotel's wi-fi and stream their ENTIRE
catalog of television shows. To me, that's even better than their TV
experience on my STB.

------
sofuture
It's amazing that people are surprised at all when a combination of
proprietary media-playback system don't work as desired.

No snark intended, I've just not ever had a good experience dealing with a
_single_ proprietary playback mechanism.

~~~
gizzlon
Not even stand-alone players? My first one ever, a mid-range blue-ray player
works fine. Other than that, I agree. Btw, the open source players (vlc,
mplayer etc.) have been the best software players out there for the last
decade.

------
monatron
I can imagine being a developer on this product would be insanity. They
probably implemented the Airplay feature, showed it to their bosses and for
whatever reason the higher-ups had their reasons for nixing the second
screen... Then they thought -- Ok, so we can't do video but perhaps people
would want to airplay the audio to their fancy pants audio setup in their
homes, better than nothing, right? Wrong.

I hope the big media companies get their acts together. They only get to screw
up a finite number of times before someone comes and blows them out of the
water

~~~
ConstantineXVI
AFAIK; AirPlay is essentially "free" with the standard video player in iOS. It
takes more effort to remove it than put it in.

~~~
smackfu
Well, I think it's a config switch, so it takes very little effort to add it
or remove it.

~~~
tomjen3
Which is something Apple shouldn't have done - with all the crap they make
devs go through, fully working airplay should be a required feature with all
the video players.

------
jonaphin
After many trials and tribulations (Apple TV + Airplay, Roku 2, PS3) the ONLY
decent (read working) option was XBox 360 + XBox Live Gold + Comcast XFinity*
+ HBO Go App.

It does feel like I lost my soul signing packs with so many devils, but at
long last, I have an HD HBO Go app running the way it ought to.

* Not all cable companies have a deal with HBO for HBO Go

~~~
rhizome
You are their ideal customer, and I wouldn't doubt that that network of
requirements was mapped out in advance. "If all goes well, these X companies
will get signups from HBO Go customers."

------
Zelphyr
Its tactics like this that are the reason I'm cutting the cord when my DirecTV
contract is up in November. HBO has great content. Some of the best available
in fact. But I refuse to give them a dime while they institute policies that
actively diminish my viewing experience.

------
daveman
It's particularly annoying that this prohibition is in place even though there
are still other ways-- albeit less convenient ones-- to get the video
streaming to your TV. For example, you can use a thunderbolt-to-hdmi connector
(or VGA) from your laptop, and probably a 30pin-to-hdmi from your iPad
(although I've never tried the latter).

So it's possible to still get the content to your TV, in a much less user-
friendly (i.e. tethered) way. I know not everyone has these connectors, but
since the ability is there, you'd hope they would just be gracious and allow
for the better experience.

------
iopuy
Okay listen to this. HBO GO is only available to people with certian cable
companies. I live in an apartment complex so i cannot changes who provides my
cable. My younger sister has HBO GO app on xbox live and direct tv. I have
knology, a non support cable provider while direct tv is. She gave me her
direct tv credentials and i put them into mh 360 and it worked no problem, all
it does is show a direct tv logo in the app itself.

~~~
MBCook
Apartment complex exclusivity was re-affirmed as illegal a few years ago [1].
Of course if there is only one choice in the area, that's perfectly legal.

Does HBO Go work well on those device? I watched an episode of Newsroom using
the HBO Go website, and it was a terrible experience. Ignoring the "sign into
your cable company" thing, the video quality wasn't that great despite using
tons of bandwidth. It stuttered but looked OK. On the other hand Netflix
movies look much better and use less bandwidth. It's like they're still using
the old Flash codec instead of MP4.

[1] [http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2009/05/federal-court-
uph...](http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2009/05/federal-court-upholds-fcc-
ban-on-exclusive-cable-deals/)

~~~
iopuy
I have both Netflix and HBO Go on xbox 360 apps and the quality is identical
to my naked eye.

------
ricardobeat
Shouldn't the App Store approval process reject an app that does this? It must
be violating some ux guideline.

------
MatthewPhillips
The iTunes screenshots don't show the AirPlay icon:

<http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/hbo-go/id429775439?mt=8>

The conspiracy theorist in me wanted to believe they left audio in there just
to advertise AirPlay support.

------
kingnothing
Amazon Instant Video suffers from the same problem.

~~~
twoodfin
The difference with Amazon Instant Video is that it's trivial to find a plain-
old TV-connected device that supports it. My year old Blu-ray player handles
it just fine. It's not that different from NetFlix in that regard, except I
suppose it's not available for Apple TV yet.

The only device designed to put HBO Go on your TV screen is, I believe, the
XBox 360 when connected to particular cable networks.

------
falicon
It's got the button, but not the feature. Gotta love it! ;-)

~~~
jonknee
No, it has the button to play audio through Air Play. It's a different icon
for video.

