
Ask HN: Do companies own your side project? - Jonovono
Hi. I am just curious how this usually works. If you work for a company, and you were working on a side project on the side, would they usually own that? Or say you want to start a startup, but you do that while working at another company and build it for a bit before leaving, how would this usually work?
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hrabago
There are companies that make you sign an agreement saying if you produce
something while they employ you, then they own that product. Microsoft is one
such company.

Fortunately (or unfortunately?) I don't work for one of those. I just try to
make sure I don't use any company resources (time, equipment, etc) when I work
on my own stuff and I work on stuff that has little/no overlap with any of my
employer's businesses.

If you have questions, you should review the documents you signed when you
started working for your employer, and clear it with your management. Yes,
talk to a lawyer if you must, but that would be due to an abundance of
caution.

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dhoulb
Things to watch for are:

A) You signed a contract that explicitly assigns ownership of anything you
create to them B) You created it on equipment they own, or used any of their
resources to make it C) You created it in time you should've been working for
them

Generally speaking, the best way to avoid legal problems is not to piss people
off too much. So don't build a direct competitor to them and you're probably
fine. If you haven't done any of A, B or C, you'd probably win eventually, but
could still end up spending money on lawyers just to make it go away.

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bobfirestone
* I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. If there is an actual concern you should talk to a lawyer.

Probably not. If you are doing it on your time and not using company resources
any claim to the outside work by your employer are going to be pretty weak.

If you are building a product that directly relates to what the company does
you are probably entering a gray area.

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krapp
<IANAL> If you signed a contract stating they own anything you create on
company property, on company time or with company resources, well there you
go.

If it's worth it to them, they may try to claim it anyway. Depending on
applicable laws. Or how far they think they can strongarm you. </IANAL>

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mindcrime
As is almost always the case with this kind of question the answer is "it
depends". And the follow-up answer is "if it's really important to you, ask a
lawyer".

That said, the basic gist of it something _roughly_ like this: Some companies
_may_ ask you to sign an agreement when you accept employment, which assigns
them rights to anything you create, no matter when or where you create it, or
what the subject matter is. For example, when I worked for Lulu.com, the
initial IP assignment they asked me to sign was so broad, that if I had
written a romance novel in my spare time, they would have had a claim to it.

However, some companies have contracts that are much more reasonable,
specifying that they only own stuff you create that is directly related to
your line of work, and explicitly excluding stuff you do after hours, on your
own equipment, not related to your job there.

Other companies may not ask you to sign any such agreement at all.

So, part 1 of answering this question involves finding out what exactly you
signed, if anything.

But... it gets more complicated. State laws may trump your IP agreement with
your employer. Some states don't allow employers to make those overly broad
"we own your brain 24x7" type claims, so even IF you signed such an agreement,
it isn't enforceable.

See what I mean about about talking to a real lawyer (preferably one who is a
member of the bar in your local area)?

Another angle is this: Most companies aren't actually flat out evil and don't
want to screw you over because they're dicks. I know, this totally violates
the left-wing narrative you may have been led to believe, but trust me.
Anyway, if they DO have a "we 0wnz your brain" agreement, it is entirely
possible that some overzealous lawyer (who may have done it on contract and
not even be an employee) wrote the thing (or they downloaded it from some
form-paperwork website) and the company barely even knows what is there, and
wouldn't actually ask to 0wnz your brain if they thought about it. In those
cases, if you simply ask them to change the agreement, there is a good chance
they will change it, or just ask you to submit a letter listing the exceptions
you want to make, and which they can then sign. Again, by way of example, when
I was at Lulu, this is the way they handled it when I pushed back. They just
said "OK, just give us a list of everything you are working on on your own
time and as long as it isn't directly competitive with us, we'll exempt that".
I did, and that was that.

So, it can be complicated, but it isn't always a big deal. The other factor to
consider is that if your startup has like NOTHING to do with what your
employer does, it's entirely possible that you can start on it, work on it,
later quit when the startup gains traction, and nobody will ever be the wiser.
But it is a little bit of a risk. If you go that route, I'd advise you to
never, ever, ever mention the startup to anybody at your other job and keep a
pretty low profile about it. But really, I think you'd be better off spending
a few bucks on a laywer (if necessary) and / or do some negotiating with your
current employer and get everything squared away nice and proper first. Why
take on unnecessary risk?

