

Ask HN Women: Improving or Having Confidence. - jdavid

Since, I met my current girlfriend she has talked about changing jobs.  When I listen she talks about how she missed out and is now stuck where she is.<p>For a number of reasons, I just don't accept this piece of logic, so, I challenge it.  It's nearly impossible for me to be a hacker, painter, entrepreneur type and to accept that the time to succeed for anyone has passed.<p>What advice would you give to a young women with bills to pay, and a good degree on finding the path to a successful career?<p>I currently think it's more of a lack of confidence than it is a lack of skill or potential.  As a loving boyfriend how can I help?<p>As a guy, I just can't, just listen to it.  I strongly feel that if you are going to dream of something that you need to go after it or give it up.  It's a waste of emotional energy to hold on to things that you will in the far future attempt.<p>Currently I have thought about getting her into a career planing class, which she seems excited about, but I am not sure that is enough.<p>She has talked about going back for a master's degree, but I fear that is just another way to skip out of having to be evaluated at a job interview which is really intimidating to some.
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sistersue
I'm a big believer in the idea that you make your life what you want it to be.
If she were my friend (I'm female) and told me she wanted to change careers
but is stuck where she is, I'd tell her that's a choice she's making. There
are probably lots of things - small & large - she could do to begin changing
her life, but they're not going to be easy. They're probably going to be a lot
of work, it will suck for awhile, but she will have the satisfaction of
knowing that she's working towards something that will make her life
better/more satisfying/whatever.

Also, even if she hates her job, I'd tell her that every job teaches you
something and the more you put it the more you can get out of any job. Tell
her to focus on the positive - what can she get out of this job - and how are
those little steps going to get her closer to whatever her end goal is?

I also think it's OK not to have a completely clear end goal, not everyone has
a cystal clear vision. But if she can figure out bits and pieces of what she
wants & doesn't want, she can begin the take steps in the right direction. In
my experience, things become more and more clear as you make progress.

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brudgers
> _"As a guy, I just can't, just listen to it. I strongly feel that if you are
> going to dream of something that you need to go after it or give it up. It's
> a waste of emotional energy to hold on to things that you will in the far
> future attempt."_

[IANAW] Usually, just listening to it is what she wants you to do. She is not
asking you to fix it, just to be emotionally supportive in the here and now.
Feeling like one missed out and is stuck can not be disproven by logic.

In other words, these conversations aren't about you and your feelings. They
are about her and her feelings.

I will point out, that your girlfriend's ambition to return to school is clear
evidence that she does not believe her time to succeed has passed. What it
means is that she is looking for change.

Listen and offer support to her (not give unsolicited technical advice) and
you may be part of her future and she of yours, otherwise you are likely to go
on the things to change list. That will require biting your tongue - sometimes
literally.

Good luck.

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russell
The strategy that I have used when out of the job market for a while is to
consider the first few interviews as throwaways that I use to learn what he
market conditions, interview fads and the like are. If I get blown away, so
what; it's a learning experience. If I get an instant offer, I'll still keep
on looking, until I get a good feel. (Unless it's the best job I've ever
seen.) It's like dating. You shouldnt get bummed out if the first person you
date isnt a fit.

EDIT: If you have a stable relationship, consider giving her the financial
help that she needs to make a career change. Give up your bowling league or
whatever. Consider her to be a good startup investment. Of course, consider
the soundness of whatever she wants to do. If her dream is to start a used
clothing store, it is probably best to be a bit hard of hearing.

~~~
jdavid
I have offered her a few thousand dollars so that she could quit and look for
a job.

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Mz
I kind of hesitate to reply. My thoughts on male-female relationships often
get very strong negative reactions from both men and women. (FWIW: I happen to
be female.)

I would suggest you back off some and let this be her baby. If she whines, ask
"so what do you plan to do about it?" Let her know that if she wants to change
this, you are happy to provide practical support. But if she wants a shoulder
to cry on, you aren't really interested. That "I feel your pain" crap isn't
really your style. (This is what I routinely did with my sons: I will help you
explore your options but if after exploring your options you choose to keep
doing the same thing, don't come whining to me about it. You can come back at
any time and get more assistance with brainstorming and such but I am not a
shoulder to cry on and I have no sympathy when you clearly brought this on
yourself and keep doing so.)

I have known a couple of men who both pressured their wives into going back to
school etc. They were never really satisfied. Both men found me wildly
attractive...and promptly behaved towards me in the same butt-in-sky,
controlling fashion with which they had tried to run their wive's lives. This
does not fly with me. And it doesn't work. Pushing someone around to force
them to do better in life is not the way to create someone who does a good job
of standing up for themselves. In order to "benefit" from this type of help,
she first has to cave to your demands. It actually gets kind of the opposite
of the intended result.

I would also recommend you pick up a book called "Chore Wars". Women are
routinely expected to do the lion's share of housework, cooking, etc. Helping
more around the house (or hiring help if that is feasible) is something
genuinely supportive you can do to remove real obstacles to her having the
energy to put into being more ambitious. I know for a fact this works. I left
a husband who was really dumb about the ways in which he was holding me back
and I told my two sons at some point that I would rather they take over the
housework and cooking so I had the energy to work overtime instead of
encouraging them to get jobs. This serves multiple purposes for our family.
But it is very clear to me that all the studies and what not I have read are
correct: A big obstacle to the success of women is the proverbial 'second
shift' which motivates them to choose pink collar ghetto jobs so they have
enough energy left to do all the "women's work" after they clock out.

Best of luck.

~~~
jdavid
Most of this is relevant. It's not my idea that she get a new job, it's hers.

