
Tin cans filled with $10M in gold coins found buried in California - Varcht
http://www.news.com.au/world/tin-cans-filled-with-10-million-in-gold-coins-dating-from-gold-rush-era-found-buried-in-california/story-fndir2ev-1226837801851
======
iandanforth
My favorite part about this is _why_ it's worth $10 million.

Because it's currency? Nope. Because it's gold? Nope. Because it's
collectable? Yes!

Really highlights how price and value can come unstuck.

~~~
hackinthebochs
I remember seeing a documentary that made the connection between the evolution
of money and the human race's tendency to find inherent value in
"collectibles". Stones, shells, jewelry, etc, were all the basis for a
currency in various times, and its only because of our shared appreciation for
collectibles that this worked.

~~~
brc
Well, currency is defined by divisibility, durability, scarcity and difficulty
of forging. Humans desire a medium of exchange to better facilitate trade. The
desire to trade creates the requirement for currency. The desire to collect
manifests in many different forms - but the use of currency is separate
(though probably related) to that.

~~~
tellarin
Collectibles are also related to durability, scarcity and difficulty of
forging. So I guess it's more related to currency than most would realize.

I for one had never thought about it this way.

------
ck2
Doesn't the US Treasury have a history of going around and seizing gold coins?

I forget exactly why but I think it was because they were all recalled when we
went off gold standard?

I vaguely remember people finding these in deposit boxes, sharing it with the
news and then magically losing it all when the treasury shows up to seize
them.

Ah here we go

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102)

not really related but still gold-coin mind-blowing fact

[http://www.npr.org/2011/06/28/137394348/-1-billion-that-
nobo...](http://www.npr.org/2011/06/28/137394348/-1-billion-that-nobody-wants)

~~~
nlh
Just 1933 Double Eagles ($20). It's actually a fascinating story ... I'll dig
up the link and post an edit shortly.

Edit: the essential story -
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1933_double_eagle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1933_double_eagle)

Edit 2: Quick aside: I know the guy who found the 10 additional coins in his
vault (Roy Langbord). Super nice guy. I remember when a mutual friend called
me up one day and said "So Roy just found 10 1933 $20 gold coins in his vault.
Are those worth anything?" ... Gulp ...

~~~
MichaelGG
Wow that's so messed up. The Gold Reserve Act, too. It seems extremely "un-
American" for the government to force people to sell their gold to the
treasury. OTOH, so do a lot of things in hindsight, like the Vietnam draft.
(Can you imagine US citizens today being forced to fight overseas?)

Was this a common viewpoint when the act went in, or it decades of history
since colouring my vision?

~~~
nerfhammer
It was popular at the time but it was widely assumed that the gold standard
would be restored soon.

In the months prior a large percentage of country's banks had failed, and
immediately beforehand all of the major financial exchanges had frozen, every
federal reserve branch and almost every state had suspended banking
operations. Withdrawing and hoarding gold were considered to contribute to the
destabilization.

Here's an example editorial from the era:

> There will be no sympathy with the position in which these hoarders of gold
> were placed. They were perfectly aware that they were helping to aggravate
> an already difficult situation and they, by action taken with a view to
> their person profit or advantage, were creating the very situation which
> they professed to fear. Hoarders of gold on such a scale must have been
> mostly men of considerable means, not subject to the blind fright of the
> small currency-hoarder and not drive to money-hoarding, as has happened in
> many parts of the country, through absolute breakdown of normal bank
> facilities or the fear of it.

[http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F60712FB3E5D...](http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F60712FB3E5D15738DDDA80994DB405B838FF1D3)

~~~
WalterBright
The trouble was that the exchange rate of dollars for gold was kept fixed,
while the Fed had been inflating the currency since 1914. By 1930, the dollar
had inflated by 85% or so, meaning that you could roughly double your money by
trading dollars for gold.

This was why there was a giant run on the banks to trade for gold.

Similar sharp corrections happen every time an exchange rate gets fixed by law
between two otherwise unrelated specie.

~~~
nerfhammer
> The trouble was that the exchange rate of dollars for gold was kept fixed,
> while the Fed had been inflating the currency since 1914.

The Federal Reserve's gold reserve requirements and the gold price of the
dollar were set by Congress.

> By 1930, the dollar had inflated by 85% or so

This is not the normal meaning of the word inflation. (Nor do I know where
your 85% number comes from).

> meaning that you could roughly double your money by trading dollars for
> gold.

That's not what that means. If that were true then the gold standard would
have failed the minute that gold was worth 1% more than its dollar equivalent.

~~~
WalterBright
> The Federal Reserve's gold reserve requirements and the gold price of the
> dollar were set by Congress.

Yes.

> This is not the normal meaning of the word inflation. (Nor do I know where
> your 85% number comes from).

Perhaps I should have said deflated. Anyhow, it comes from any of the various
historical inflation calculators you can find on the internet.

> That's not what that means. If that were true then the gold standard would
> have failed the minute that gold was worth 1% more than its dollar
> equivalent.

I too find this surprising, but it happens again and again whenever one
currency is artificially pegged to another - nothing happens for years, and
then a wrenching correction.

~~~
WalterBright
Here's one:

[http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/](http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/)

It's giving me 72.7% 1913-1929.

~~~
nerfhammer
Ok, so you subscribe to the notion that price increases equals "dollar
inflation"

The fallacy in your thinking is that because prices increased, dollars were
"inflated" vs. gold, in which prices would have otherwise remained fixed. But
the gold supply increased dramatically over the same period.

As you point out prices increased ~75%, but at the same time US gold reserves
increased nearly 3x. 2293 tons in 1913 vs 6358 tons in 1930:

[http://i.imgur.com/Sy8uzSQ.png](http://i.imgur.com/Sy8uzSQ.png)

Remember, the Fed still had a gold reserve ratio it was required to maintain.
So as the money supply increased, so did its gold supply. You might seem to
imply that the reserve ratio was getting smaller and smaller as part of
"dollar inflation" evidenced by price level increase, while gold had a fixed
quantity and value. This is not the case.

~~~
WalterBright
The value of gold is not determined by the quantity the Fed has. The global
supply of gold did not increase 3x. The Fed kept a fixed exchange rate for
gold, while inflating the currency supply. As I said, such pegged systems
inevitably result in a sharp correction.

~~~
nerfhammer
> The global supply of gold did not increase 3x.

The _government 's_ gold reserve increased 3x.

> The Fed kept a fixed exchange rate for gold, while inflating the currency
> supply.

"inflating" the current supply of what? dollars? As noted the reserve ratio
did not decrease. As there were more dollars there was more gold backing it.

~~~
WalterBright
The global supply of gold determines its value, not the supply one entity has.

------
jonnathanson
At the risk of stating the obvious, it's worth noting that $27,000 was a lot
of money in 1849. To give a rough estimate, we're talking about the inflation-
adjusted equivalent of $750,000 (give or take).

Who buries $750,000 in tin cans? Who has $750,000 in unbanked, walking-around
money in the first place? The mid-19th century Walter White? Maybe someone
cleaning out his bank account in anticipation of a financial apocalypse? This
is the interesting part of this story, IMO. In any event, this might be one
stash among several. If someone had that kind of coin lying around, my guess
is that he didn't bury it all in one place.

~~~
prawn
"Who buries $750,000 in tin cans?"

Not quite the same amount, but my grandfather buried around $10k a few decades
ago in his backyard. He'd migrated from Europe where he was well-off and lost
a large amount of money entrusting money with a lawyer. I think he also had
reason not to trust banks, but can't remember specifics.

Fast forward to Australia where, now decidedly working class, he had saved up
a new sum and wanted to store it. So he buried it. Years later, before moving
house, he went looking and dug over the backyard but couldn't remember where
he'd buried the jars of money. Somewhere in suburban Adelaide, there is likely
to be a stash of money under dirt.

~~~
digitalengineer
Hard to believe now, but in 1933 the possession of gold by Americans was
_banned_ by Executive Order 6102. After the confiscation the price of gold
jumped and people got duped.

Source:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102)

------
rjtavares
HN in 50 years: wallet with $10 million in BitCoin from the mining era found.

~~~
sebastianavina
maybe in 50 years, new cpus or math advancements could brute force wallets and
make bitcoins worthless...

~~~
timmclean
maybe in 50 years, new chemistry advancements could turn water to gold and
make gold worthless...

~~~
theandrewbailey
maybe in 50 years, we will be mining asteroids for precious metals...

~~~
fennecfoxen
"In space, a single platinum-rich 500 meter wide asteroid contains about 174
times the yearly world output of platinum, and 1.5 times the known world-
reserves of platinum group metals (ruthenium, rhodium, palladium, osmium,
iridium, and platinum)." \-- Planetary Resources,
[http://www.planetaryresources.com/asteroids/composition/](http://www.planetaryresources.com/asteroids/composition/)
(take with as many grains of salt as you feel like)

But hey, I'm sure they can spare a mission to retrieve us some gold sooner or
later. :P

~~~
theandrewbailey
With that much/many valuable metals there, there would have to be plenty of
gold, too. I have no doubt that gold will be mined and retrieved, because it
has industrial value. Not to mention its incredible economic value, and
because gold.

------
gojomo
YC (S14): Gold Country Metal-Detecting Drones

~~~
doubt_me
Dude. a segway metal detector

... I mean why not

------
patrickg_zill
$27,000 face value in $10 and $20 gold coins, each gold coin having 0.9675
ounces of gold in them ($10 coins would have had exactly half that amount of
gold).

So that is about 1350 $20 gold coins or their equivalent, thus 1300 ounces of
gold. At current spot prices of $1340 per ounce, about $1.75 million USD.

IF they are the $20 coins, they probably look similar to these:
[http://www.apmex.com/product/9119/20-liberty-gold-double-
eag...](http://www.apmex.com/product/9119/20-liberty-gold-double-eagle-
cleaned)

------
ereckers
I wouldn't go public either. Somebody before them owned that property and I
wonder if old relatives could give you troubles.

~~~
theandrewbailey
If it was found on your land, and the deed to that land has been in your name
for several years, they wouldn't have legit claim.

~~~
booruguru
I read story a while back about a plumber who found a box filled with
thousands of dollars...behind a wall after he knocked a hole in it. The owner
of the house offered him 10% as a finder's fee, but he demanded more and
ultimately sued her. The story of the law suit led to the children of the
previous home owners filing their own law suit claiming they were entitled to
the money...and they won everything. The woman and the plumber received
nothing.

~~~
avalaunch
[http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/12/whatever_happened_to...](http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/12/whatever_happened_to_the_fight.html)

~~~
theandrewbailey
I figured that some crazy shit like that would have happened somewhere.
Doesn't surprise me that it was fellow Buckeyes.

------
650REDHAIR
Why would you ever go public with this sort of discovery? Seems like it will
just create one hell of a headache for the couple who discovered the coins.

~~~
patrickg_zill
They are being pretty cagey about who they are and where they were found. My
guess, is that they went "partially" public in order to generate interest in
selling these coins at auction, or via some other way to increase how much
they can sell them for.

~~~
650REDHAIR
Ok, that makes more sense. Still seems like an awful lot of information to put
out there.

------
chrismcb
I like how they talk about how RARE mint coins from before 1880 are, and how
there are several one of a kind finds, and many from before 1880... And then
they show a coin from 1886

------
snake_plissken
This story made me smile. Legitimate buried treasure!

~~~
Natsu
For anyone else who thought to check, no the photos do not appear to contain
any GPS coordinates in the EXIF data, so they have the treasure hunting
grounds all to themselves.

------
chris_mahan
In a cemetery? In a grave marked unknown? Is there Ennio Morricone music
playing in the background? Is there a closeup of Blondie's cigar?

~~~
groovylick
The Ecstasy of Gold
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOr0na6mKJQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOr0na6mKJQ)
one of my favorite movie soundtracks.

~~~
chris_mahan
Thank you. Linked vid is not available in the US, but quick youtube search
yield suitable alternatives.

------
lexcorvus
_Because paper money was illegal in California until the 1870s_

My, how times have changed.

~~~
MichaelGG
Is that sarcastic? Because in many states, having "enough" paper money is
reason enough for the police to take it and harass you. Even without charging
you with a crime, mere possession of cash is enough.

~~~
lexcorvus
I was referring to "paper money" in the abstract sense, i.e., currency not
tied to a commodity with a limited supply (such as gold). You're right, of
course, that mere possession of sufficient quantities of literal paper money
is even today _de facto_ illegal—a situation I join you in deploring.

------
robg
Hoard of uncirculated coins in chronological order found buried under a tree?
Isn't that the likely result of a robbery?

------
xacaxulu
This is probably one of the better way to save your money from the bankrupt
state.

~~~
scott_karana
Only if you can anticipate that the value of the metal is still there in 100
years, or that the coins will be worth something as a collector's piece.

Imagine if these were aluminum, which was expensive in the 1870s...

([http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/9511/Binczewski-9511.ht...](http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/9511/Binczewski-9511.html))

------
rasz_pl
meh gold, now if those were dogecoins ....

~~~
qbrass
Bury some now, and it could make the news in 130 years.

