
Non-hackers: how to find a co-founder - oxygenated
http://pashbonk.blogspot.com/2007/04/how-to-find-cofounder.html
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whacked_new
Let's take a different look at this article. As a thought experiment, say I'm
a non-hacker, enrolled in b-school, looking for a hacker. Now the suggestions:

1\. enroll in an engineering school. oops. 2. study CS, or take relevant
classes. Ok, I can take relevant classes. half-oops. 3. go to all classes to
see the real hackers. Real hackers aren't going to be in "introduction to
programming." oops. 4. hang out with admirable hackers. Icebreakers anyone?
oops.

Your post presumes a lot of favorable conditions which do not apply to many
people your article is addressed to; the problem is left unsolved. It looks
like a rather gaping problem, so why not address it? A matchmaking service!

I was told of an annual entrepreneurship program in Taiwan, where small teams
of all hackers and all business folks apply via separate tracks. The winners
then get matched together. It's quite an intriguing concept and definitely
worth exploring further.

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pashle
Good points, the article was quite narrowly focused. Where would you go to
find cofounders?

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nostrademons
I'd frame it a different way:

"Stay in touch with the potential cofounders you've already found."

I met my cofounder when we lived across from each other in college at the Arts
Theme House. We just didn't know we were cofounders yet. At the time, I was a
physics major - my cofounder knew that I had previously worked at a tech
startup, but he had no idea that I was still into computers (I'm not sure I
was, at the time), or that I'd done several major side projects. I knew him as
a psych major who was a bit of an electronics whiz - I had no idea that he
wanted to go into entrepreneurship or the Internet space. For that matter, I
don't think he did either.

I didn't find out what he was doing until I went over to catch up with him at
Homecoming. I knew that he'd been at a consulting firm (via FaceBook), but
usually consultants go into big business instead of Web2.0 startups. Even
then, I didn't join immediately - he had someone else picked out as a
technical cofounder. It was only after the previous technical cofounder quit
(for visa reasons) that I joined up with him.

Also - there's a common misconception that top-notch hackers spend all their
time hacking. They spend _a lot_ of time hacking, but most have other
interests. For example, Guy Steele sings bass in choir and does swing dancing.
Paul Graham writes essays and paints. One of the top hackers I knew at college
was a CS/Theater double major. IMNSHO, these people often have _better_
technical chops than the single-minded, socially awkward computer geek.

~~~
pashle
Arts Theme House:) Go Duke! Damn good points about hackers with more than just
technical chops. Congrats on finding your cofounder, I'm guessing you've
already got a live startup. If you want to link it, we'd love to check it out.

~~~
nostrademons
Actually, it was at Amherst. There must be multiple colleges with Arts Theme
Houses ;-).

And we're not live yet, but we're close. Damn day job sucks up my time. We may
have something (not our main idea, but potentially useful) up by tomorrow
though, and hopefully our original site idea will follow soon afterwards...

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waleedka
If you're not a hacker then you'd better be good in marketing and a good
negotiator because these are the skills that most hackers lack. This way
you'll complement each other, and you'll have something to offer the
partnership.

~~~
pashle
For the Jobs: how could he improve his marketing/negotiating skills?

For the Woz: how could he find a Jobs?

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menloparkbum
I'm not convinced the best hackers are found in a university computer lab.
When I was in college the only people in the computer lab were IRC addicts who
were too broke to afford their own computer! The article mentions "the Woz"
and I'm pretty sure steve jobs did not meet steve wozinak in a computer lab.

~~~
pashle
You're right, Steve met Woz because they lived in the same
neighbourhood/street. I agree that labs might be a long shot. Where else do
you think hackers might hang out?

~~~
timg
Alone in their basements? Seriously.

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Tichy
I don't think the advice in the article applies anymore. Who would go to a
computer lab these days? I suspect people are more likely to use labtops and
WLAN.

Also, I don't think hackers dislike Java. Judging by the number of Open Source
projects in Java, I'd say it is popular among volunteers, too (not only people
being forced to by their superiors are using it).

I am not sure studying programming is a good idea, either. I would also like
to have a co-founder who is a graphics designer, marketing is good, too,
generally somebody who gets things moving.

~~~
pashle
As with menloparkbum, I agree that labs might be a long shot. I also agree
that cofounders with design and marketing skills would be great to have. Where
would you go to find them?

~~~
Tichy
I am only just starting to look - tough question. Maybe at a cartoon fair?
Conferences? Local "special interest" group meetings? LinkedIn? Craigslist?
Recommendations through friends? Parties at the local arts college?

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oxygenated
I think a key point from the post is that non-hackers need to make the first
move - because face it, you need them more than they need you, no matter how
unfair you think that is.

~~~
Leonidas
I've thought about this for a bit and I really don't know who needs who more
so I like to think a non-hacker needs a hacker both equally. For example, if a
non-hacker can't find a hacker, he'll go hire one. Hiring one might not be the
best approach but if you have the money to spend, why not? Of course it's
always better to have a hacker as as cofounder. Now, a hacker - can be
business savvy so he wouldn't need a non-hacker.

But lets think about this, you have a hacker who thinks he doesn't need a non-
hacker. Well, most of the applications that hackers most likely build is for
other hackers. When you speak to VCs, how many of them are hackers? Or a bunch
of hacker guys building a 'fashion site'...uh what do guys know about fashion.
In this case, I would go find a non-hacker chick to join the team b/c she'll
know all the avenues and forum girls go to - marketing power.

You can build, but what you build won't always get users. I know there seems
to be a view in Silicon Valley that MBAs are morons but it's wrong to lump
them all into one group. I could easily say that a lot of hackers, while
brilliant, may build something really 'cool' but so entirely 'useless.'

A hacker and non-hacker team is the best combination. You both need each other
equally. There's no "I" in "Team."

~~~
nostrademons
"For example, if a non-hacker can't find a hacker, he'll go hire one."

You can't build a successful tech business with a hired hacker. By choosing to
hire, you'll only be able to attract programmers who are willing to work for
the money you can pay them. The cream of the crop will pass you up in favor of
startups that give them equity. Your first technical person sets a ceiling on
the technical ability of your subsequent hires, because bad programmers are
not able to recognize great ones.

If you're right and you do find a market niche that's extremely profitable,
you'll invite competition. One of those competitors will inevitably have a
top-notch hacker as a cofounder, and then you'll get eaten for lunch as their
small, nimble team of elite hackers copies everything you do and then
innovates way beyond it.

Many companies tried this approach in the dot-com boom, with predictable
results. For example, Altavista/Lycos/Infoseek got eaten by Google, Value
America by Amazon, Friendster and now MySpace by FaceBook.

~~~
Leonidas
"MySpace by FaceBook" -- that's kind of arguable because MySpace was acquired
and I really don't know who's making more money than whom. What about Digg? As
for Google eating those companies you listed up..heck Google eats everyone up.

Having a hacker as a co-founder is always better than hiring which I stated.
The point is, having a team of just solely hackers is not always better than
having a team of a non-hacker and hacker.

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budu3
Oh my goodness. I'm truly alarmed by this article. The author needs to think
more in terms innovation, and creating value (for him and his co-workers, his
investors and his users) in places that people would not think to look. I
don't think it's about finding a hacker who can code in Ruby and then building
a me too web2.0 app/website. Web 2.0 and pastel coloured websites will come
and go but good innovators will always be around whether they know how to
program in the latest "geek" language or not.

~~~
juwo
I agree - it is reminiscent of the dot-com bubble. Everybody wants 'in' on the
youtube billions.

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kyro
How about how to find a co-founder if you've sent out flyers, list-serv emails
and talked to professors? :P

