
MacBookPro vs. Surface Book - douche
http://codeclimber.net.nz/archive/2016/10/28/MacBookPro-vs-Surface-Book.aspx
======
sickbeard
>I have a super-old MacBook Pro, “early 2009” Core 2 Duo, that is still
working pretty ok till now, after having boosted RAM to 8Gb and disk with an
SSD. With a lifetime of 7 years and half, having kept all my previous laptop
maximum 3 years, this is the longest living computer I ever had, more than
twice.

remember he hasn't actually used the new Macbook pro.. or the new surface
book. He's just basing this on the old versions of the laptop and adding his
own thoughts to it

~~~
noja
How do you know he hasn't used them?

~~~
sickbeard
Because the Macbook pro 2016 has been announced but not released and for the
surface book here is what he said

"Processing Power

This is difficult to do a fair comparisons, especially when comparing prices
later, because, while for the MacBook Pros we know exactly their clock speed
and if they are dual-core or quad-core, there are no specs for the new Surface
Book. I read somewhere they used the same processors of the previous model, so
dual-core i5 2.4Ghz and dual-core i7 2.6Ghz. Which is more than the revamped
MBP whose i5 is 2.0Ghz and i7 is 2.4Ghz, but (much) less than the new models
which have an i5 with 2.9Ghz and i7 up to 3.3Ghz and even a quad-core i7
2.9Ghz for the 15”.

Winner: MacBook Pro"

relevant portion: there are no specs for the new Surface Book. I read
somewhere they used the same processors of the previous model

~~~
Mike_D_Brooks
[http://www.windowscentral.com/new-surface-book-
configuration...](http://www.windowscentral.com/new-surface-book-
configuration-core-i5-and-512gb-storage-pre-order-) This is one updated SKU,
but by the looks of it you are right. They are using the same CPU.

------
nakedrobot2
As a happy android user, generally disliking the iPhone, I am not part of the
Apple ecosystem really. However, Windows 10 is such a total dumpster fire -
privacy nightmare, usability nightmare, unprompted upgrades without the
ability to opt out, and so on... I can't bear to use a windows 10 laptop. I do
in fact have one. It cost $2000 and the trackpad is basically unusably bad.
So... I will with some reluctance upgrade to another macbook, simply because
the alternative is truly horrifying.

~~~
BrandonLive
Nothing said here is true. Windows 10 is not a "privacy nightmare" (ironic
coming from an Android user!), nor a usability one. There are no unprompted
upgrades, but it is aggressive about keeping your device up-to-date (will auto
reboot if you postpone too long) which is A Good Thing.

~~~
wlesieutre
Let's agree to disagree then.

The autoupdate scheduling is terrible. You can set a "active hours" window
where it won't try to force reboot on you, but it's limited to 8 hours, and
there's no provision for setting different active hours on weekdays vs
weekends. Because obviously the usage profile on my home computer is the same
on Wednesday as it is on Saturday.

The autoupdates load garbage onto your computer (Candy Crush Soda Saga?) even
if you've previously uninstalled it and obviously didn't want it.

I paid >$100 for this, and it's stuffed with ads. Solitaire and Minesweeper
are freemium apps with a _subscription_ of $10/year to get rid of ads.
Seriously? Minesweeper needs to be a subscription?

I've been running Windows on my desktops, but I've lately relegated it to
gaming only, and am dual booting Linux for programming and content creation
work.

Windows 7 was great, it stayed out of the way and let me get my work done.
Windows 10 has a feeling that I have to work around the computer to trick it
into letting me be productive.

~~~
pier25
> The autoupdates load garbage onto your computer (Candy Crush Soda Saga?)

I've been using Windows 10 before it had a public release and I've never seen
anything like this on my machines. It seems like you really have a mess on
yours.

I also removed anything that I didn't want from the Start menu. I don't
understand why you wouldn't do the same.

It sounds like the problem here is not really Windows 10.

~~~
wlesieutre
Old thread, but another thing making the rounds today:
[http://www.pcworld.com/article/3138493/windows/here-we-go-
ag...](http://www.pcworld.com/article/3138493/windows/here-we-go-again-
microsofts-popping-up-ads-from-the-windows-10-toolbar.html)

I know you're going to tell me I should just close the advertisement and the
problem here isn't really Windows 10, but the problem is that the ads exist in
the first place after I paid $120 for it.

------
schwarrrtz
I recently got a Surface Book after many years using a MBP. The Book
definitely looks nice, the keyboard is excellent, performance is good, and the
reconfigurable touchscreen is handy for doing hand calculations, circuit
diagrams, sketching, etc. There are many downsides though: the touchscreen
features seen poorly supported, with many apps exhibiting weird scrolling
behaviour or other bugs. High DPI support also seems patchy even after much
tweaking of Windows settings. Even Windows itself seems to get confused about
the touchscreen; the Start menu will occasionally stop responding to mouse
clicks, at which point you have to either poke at the screen or reboot.

To be honest, I wish I had stuck with Apple, at least until Microsoft works
out the kinks.

------
savvyraccoon
'Server Error in '/' Application.

Resource ID : 1. The request limit for the database is 30 and has been
reached. See
'[http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=267637'](http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=267637')
for assistance.'

that says it all :) Are you running you site from Surface Book?

~~~
cptskippy
It smells of SQL Express.

~~~
scoj
SQL Azure sounds like.

~~~
BrandonLive
It is impossible to know just from the fact that it's using SQL...

~~~
tempuserzz23
Nope, it's Azure all right. See -> [https://azure.microsoft.com/en-
us/documentation/articles/sql...](https://azure.microsoft.com/en-
us/documentation/articles/sql-database-resource-limits/)

The error page points you to this URL.

~~~
BrandonLive
Ah I see.

------
baq
TLDR it's a wash. the guy went with apple because he's got an iphone and an
apple watch.

------
codemac
This link already has too much love. Here is the google cache link:

[https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http:/...](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://codeclimber.net.nz/archive/2016/10/28/MacBookPro-
vs-Surface-Book.aspx)

~~~
weitzj
Add a cache:// in front of the URL, e.g.:

cache://codeclimber.net.nz/archive/2016/10/28/MacBookPro-vs-Surface-Book.aspx

~~~
nathancahill
Wow, had no idea. How did Google score that protocol?

~~~
awinder
Because they also control the browser, only works in chrome

~~~
nathancahill
It works in Firefox too, but I guess that's because I have Google set to my
default search engine. Good trick.

------
danso
As disappointed as I am with the latest announcement of the MBP -- I'll likely
skip this generation -- the quality of the trackpad and keyboard would be what
would convince me to go with the MBP, for now, though I haven't tried it on
the new Surface Book.

In the next iteration, next year, it's hard to say what I would choose,
because a few big factors could change:

1\. So many peripherals go USB-C, or I have enough such dongles, that the
MBP's USB-C-only doesn't bother me as much.

2\. The Bash shell in Windows is as seamless and well-supported as it is in
OSX.

3\. Apple adds some unpredictable game-changing feature to its laptop line.

4\. Apple finally produces a new external Apple Display.

~~~
gutnor
4\. Apple finally produces a new external Apple Display.

They presented a LG monitor during the event saying they partnered with LG to
build it and presenting as the perfect monitor companion and ultimate dock for
the MBP.

That's not entirely out of character for Apple to backstab its new partner by
producing its own competing model, but considering that Apple just got out of
that business, that looks unlikely.

~~~
danso
Yeah my bad. I only read summaries of the event and didn't catch that nuance
about LG being a de facto replacement for Apple's official displays. That's
good news.

------
daxfohl
I've got both (older models) and if I had to choose one I'd stick with MBP.
You can run MacOS or Windows on it (I'm primarily a Windows user). 15" hi-res
screen is more useful for dev work than 13" super-res screen. Touchscreen of
SB is more useful than I'd have thought but far from necessary. The detachment
mechanism of SB is a bit too slow and clunky to be useful, and you're still
stuck carrying a keyboard around (plus Windows doesn't have much going for it
in tablet mode). I'd like to see them go toward more of a Lenovo Yoga route
with the next release.

That said, I probably _use_ the SB more than the MBP these days, because I
mainly use a desktop for dev work, and the SB is smaller and more convenient
for non-work tasks around the house. But if I'm working remotely for a long
time then the MBP is absolutely the device I'd take with me.

~~~
daxfohl
Thought about it some more and realized screen size (at a reasonably high
resolution) is really the biggest differentiating factor for me. So if SB had
a 15" option I'd never get a MBP unless I needed MacOS. There are certainly
some things I'd love to improve in the SB, but for me, screen size aside, it
beats the MBP in every other aspect.

I may be an anomaly though. I might even consider a 17" version with a full
keyboard and number pad if they offered it. My desktop is quad monitor, two of
which are 39" 4K. I just like to have lots and lots of screen space.

------
localhost
Do Mac developers care at all about function keys? When I switched to a
Powerbook G4 back in the day, I learned vim key bindings because of the lack
of function keys (and page down/up). To address the specific complaint about
the ESC key, I've been using CTRL-[ with the CAPS LOCK key mapped to CTRL for
as long as I can remember.

Does the typical Mac developer care at all about physical / virtual function
keys given their workflow? I would imagine not, but would love to hear about
others' experiences here.

~~~
przemelek
When I'm using IntelliJ Idea on Macbook I use function keys very often. Having
those on touch bar would mean need to look to ensure that I'm hitting F7
instead of F8 or F9 when Debugging. I'm able to change those shortcuts but I
like to use the same shortcuts on OS X and on Ubuntu.

------
AdmiralAsshat
HN hug of death seems to have thrown it offline. Anyone have a cache?

EDIT: Found one:

[https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:eG1Z2o...](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:eG1Z2oYkPegJ:codeclimber.net.nz/archive/2016/10/28/MacBookPro-
vs-Surface-Book.aspx+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

~~~
i336_
This server is in leave-the-crockery-on-the-floor mode, too. Debug mode OFF!

(Although the level of detail could be much worse.)

------
nixgeek
I'm hoping the Surface Pro 5 vs. MacBook Pro 13" (Late 2016) will be a more
interesting comparison next year, but this conclusion seems to say "It's a
wash" (he bought MBP, because he's invested in that ecosystem).

------
brahma1337
OP doesn't account for all the dongles you would have to buy, that could
easily come out to about ~$200 per Macbook - which puts the price much closer
to the Surface Book's with equivalent ports.

------
ch_123
> probably for a developer the touch bar is better.

Each to their own, I guess?

------
ZanyProgrammer
I once got my former employer to get me a Surface Book for a laptop upgrade.
It was...okay, nothing to write home about (and bear in mind I worked in a
Windows shop). Normally I'd think it's not a close comparison, but at least
MSFT didn't get rid of the damn function keys (I know they're still _sorta_
there but come on). The magic touch bar thing still pisses me off.

~~~
Klathmon
That's interesting.

I got a surface book several months ago, and it's kept me on windows. I was
one more shitty laptop away from jumping ship to a macbook pro and linux
desktop, but the surface showed me that a windows laptop doesn't need to be
trash. They finally nailed the hardware, and while it had a rocky start (the
first month or so was pretty iffy with bluescreens and I did have to return
one due to the latch not working right) it's been smooth sailing ever since.

Pretty much all of my complaints about it have to do with windows the OS at
this point (the most annoying one being that sleep is still absolute trash
compared to macos. I was fucking floored when i closed a macbook once, left it
on my desk unplugged for 2 weeks, and when I opened the screen it was right
back where i left it within a second with like 40% battery left. Not booting
up, not an image of what it was before while it started, literally right where
I left it.)

~~~
BrandonLive
Just FYI the sleep experience should be the same on the Surface Book. If you
close and open it should resume immediately. If you close for two weeks and
open, it willl have dozed to hibernate and should resume from hibernate in
about 5 seconds to exactly where you were, with most of its battery left
(hibernate uses no power).

~~~
Klathmon
If i have it closed for more than an hour, i need to hit the power button to
wake it (opening it won't wake it up). If it's closed for less than an hour,
if you hit the power button it re-sleeps the device while it's waking up.

So i need to stare at a black screen for a few seconds to see what it's going
to do. (the macbook is literally on by the time it's fully opened)]

But even then I also have problems where the device will restart while it's
hibernating or sleeping, or where it will tell me it needs to restart for an
update literally minutes after I start it up.

It's a minor thing, but it's one of the examples of where the Apple side of
things has prioritized that stuff working more than not, and it's clearly a
"checkbox to check off" on the Windows side.

I never felt that it was a problem until I used a macbook. I had assumed that
sleep and things like it just sucked with computers. It sucks on linux, it
sucks on windows. I figured it just was doomed to suck. But when I started
using a macbook every now and then, it blew me away when I could just open the
lid, and have the computer there and running instantly every single time.

------
DeathArrow
Resource ID : 1. The request limit for the database is 30 and has been
reached. See
'[http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=267637'](http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=267637')
for assistance.

------
canuckintime
His comparisons on Processing power and pricing are wrong with throws off his
conclusion. Waste of time reading that until corrected

------
jjuel
Hopefully the new Surface book has a better hinge than the previous one. That
screen wobbles so much. That is a no go for me.

------
matt4077
I got all warm and fuzzy from this idea:
[https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwC8SNvW8AQgeWN.png:large](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwC8SNvW8AQgeWN.png:large)

Basically, using the touch bar as a context-sensitive test runner. I'm spread
across too many different editors and environments it's terribly annoying to
try to find a set of keybindings that work in all of them.

~~~
arsenico
Fat finger issues - one of the reasons Bloomberg sells keyboards for the
terminal. You will definitely have the same on a touchscreen.

------
replete
I've compared a load of new laptops on my spreadsheet:
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nnmI9pN9rBMBJHE1gqYA...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nnmI9pN9rBMBJHE1gqYAPfbnfJiZFdA8voah8O2nmNk/edit?usp=sharing)

Compares CPU Passmark score, GPU Flops, Display gamut Rec 2020.

Might be of interest.

------
merlin_g
Limit of 30 users?! That's pretty small.

------
bognition
the server appears to have crashed, does anyone have a mirror?

------
ommunist
That I like: "Server Error in '/' Application.

Resource ID : 1. The request limit for the database is 30 and has been
reached. See
'[http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=267637'](http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=267637')
for assistance.

Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the
current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about
the error and where it originated in the code.

Exception Details: System.Data.SqlClient.SqlException: Resource ID : 1. The
request limit for the database is 30 and has been reached. See
'[http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=267637'](http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=267637')
for assistance."

Website owners should really consider to reassess their application
architecture.

~~~
mtmail
It's someone's personal blog with less than one post per month. You can read
the blog post here
[http://feeds.feedburner.com/codeclimber](http://feeds.feedburner.com/codeclimber)

~~~
ommunist
Thank you, got the cached one. Good comparison.

