
Windows 10 informs Chrome and Firefox users that Edge is ‘safer’ - cpncrunch
http://venturebeat.com/2016/11/18/windows-10-informs-chrome-and-firefox-users-that-edge-is-safer/
======
Jerry2
Hypocrisy at its finest.

Few months ago I installed Windows 10 and decided to try Edge. Here's how
Google responded to that:

1) Every time I went to google.com, I was presented with a notice that I
should install Chrome and that I should set Google.com as my search engine

2) Google sent an email to my Gmail account telling me that I should install
Chrome and use it instead.

3) Every time I went on Youtube.com, I was again pestered with notices that I
should install Chrome.

And if you're a Firefox user, you've probably noticed "set your search engine
to Google" every time you search on their site. But being an Edge user is 10x
worse.

Google is THE WORST offender when it comes to pushing their own services.

EDIT: Here's the email that Google sent me... just found it:
[https://i.imgur.com/aTChPib.png](https://i.imgur.com/aTChPib.png)

~~~
wnevets
Wait, how is this hypocrisy? Google isn't the author of this article.

~~~
firloop
You could make the point that this is standard industry behavior, and
Microsoft deciding to market their browser this way isn't anything new or
noteworthy.

~~~
PAN4SPK2WYWQF7Q
Well, perhaps people would not consider this as annoying if Microsoft
advertised Edge for people who visit e.g. microsoft.com with another browser.

Having a monopolistic position on the desktop market and using that is a
different ball game.

~~~
firloop
I don't know, doing stuff like sending someone an email to switch browsers
seems just as intrusive.

------
ChuckMcM
How is this any different than Google whining at me that I should really make
them my primary search engine in the browser because they are better than any
alternative. There are literally _billions_ of dollars at stake here, he who
controls the gateway to the Internet, controls the universe (with apologies to
F. Herbert).

~~~
heinrich5991
In the example you mentioned, I think that there actually is a difference.

1) You use Firefox, and Microsoft tells you that you should use IE instead. 2)
You use Google Search, and Google tells you that you should use Google Search
more often.

The first is similar to Google somehow placing notes in Bing Search that
Google search is better, the second is similar to Microsoft telling IE users
that IE is better than Firefox in [this metric].

I think 1) is ethically more questionable than 2).

~~~
tn13
I would love to replace the Google Now on Android with something else. Till
then I think I dont blame MS here.

~~~
petre
That's one of the main reasons I installed Cyanogenmod. To get rid of Google
Now and finally remove tgat annoying text input from my desktop.

~~~
vurpo
You can just disable Google Now in the Google settings, and install a
different launcher like Nova Launcher, if you want to get rid of Google Now
entirely. Modding your phone is not necessary for this.

------
egeozcan
I have been using Windows since 3.1. I've never been this annoyed. Windows 10
caused data loss (don't even get me started), privacy issues, constant nagging
about their products and too many hours spent trying to change defaults (only
to see them being reset seemingly at random).

It's an amazing, stable and usable (except, you know...) operating system
which for no logical reason, tries to alienate its users.

If this is greed on Microsoft's part, then I'm really sad to see such great
engineering used to do such evil. If this is a popular operating system
adapting to its average user, I'm extremely sad about this deep incompetence
of the average user.

Probably both.

~~~
joering2
> tries to alienate its users.

That's the unwanted or ignored outcome for their newest strategy.

MS shift is from developing and charging you $200 for greatly working
operating system (and making this way $1B a year) to giving you the system
practically free (hello Apple) and having you operate in one giant magnifying
glass, where every move of your mouse and ever letter you type is send to MS
to later digest and somewhat make decisions on what you want from life in
terms of ability to advertise stuff back at you, whether from Bing that you
use or in some way selling signals you send them to third parties so they
serve you more "relevant" content making $1B plus a few more $Bs!

Conspiracy theory?? With fully working W10, from other than internet source
load to your desktop photos of Ferraris, or simply name few photos "Ferrari".
You will quickly see, within days how the ads being targeted to you on this
computer are somewhat related to racing cars, luxury cars, etc.

I made up my mind already. Windows 7 with uninstalled telemetry crap is my
last standing Windows. I just got new laptop and its got enough Windows 7
drivers to install clean copy. But moving forward I will have to be forced to
go into Linux... at least glad my work doesn't require any sophisticated tools
that work only on specific platform.

~~~
tracker1
More and more typical tools work just about everywhere... I really appreciate
Cordova and Electron in that regard, putting thoughts of bloat aside. Not much
ties me to windows, and even .Net is more portable than ever.

------
cpncrunch
I'm curious: is Edge actually more secure than Chrome?

Certainly with Chrome I've noticed a large number of malicious sites don't
trigger any warnings from Chrome at all, so Chrome certainly has a lot more
work to do.

~~~
mtgx
At least going by the recent Pwn2Own competitions, the answer seems to be
_no_. We'll see how they fare at the next ones.

The AppGuard virtualization thing or whatever they are calling it better come
as an API for other apps soon as well, and I hope Microsoft won't just keep it
for its own products. I could see serious anti-competitive issues with that
(important OS feature being kept from competitors so Microsoft can aid its own
products).

I also don't understand why they are making that feature part of "Windows
Defender". It doesn't make any sense to do that, except for "brand
unification". I think it should be kept separate.

~~~
Klathmon
AppGuard is interesting, but it's kind of "cheating". That's not to say it's a
bad thing, better security is a win, but it might come with some significant
downsides to battery and performance, and most likely will not be a "general
purpose" security mechanism for the masses (at least right now they are only
showing it off as something a corporate network admin can enable for some
sites).

Then again, this is all speculation. They could prove me horribly wrong and
wipe the damn floor with the competition!

------
problems
"It blocks 21% more socially engineered malware".

What does that even mean? That it blocks malware links from social engineering
attacks? Seems like really confusing wording.

~~~
acqq
"What does that even mean?"

For example, that they actually compared the number of the malware sites they
can block and counted more of them?

~~~
curried_haskell
Probably a number made-up by their marketing department. Or very carefully
cherry-picked.

~~~
aluhut
Sounds good. It's not 30 because that would imply "a third" and it's not 10
which would just look low.

Instead it's the middle +1.

If I'd write a story about somebody who has to make up one, this would be it
;)

------
enzanki_ars
I wonder if the EU will investigate this as they did with IE and the European
Union Microsoft competition case[0].

[0]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrowserChoice.eu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrowserChoice.eu)

------
aorth
I take issue primarily with the "safer" claim. Chrome employs the most
security mitigations of any browser on the market.

An article from mid 2016 about grading software security like car security
quantifies this nicely. Edge wasn't in the comparison, but I look forward to
future research on that:

[https://theintercept.com/2016/07/29/a-famed-hacker-is-
gradin...](https://theintercept.com/2016/07/29/a-famed-hacker-is-grading-
thousands-of-programs-and-may-revolutionize-software-in-the-process/)

------
dep_b
I think the warning that Chrome is battery drain is pretty fair, because it's
absolutely terrible. Edge is pretty secure but I don't feel using Chrome or
Firefox is unsafe. I'm more afraid about my privacy using Chrome. But you
shouldn't have Windows 10 telling users about how important their privacy is
to Microsoft, or should it? ;)

------
aethertron
Operating systems shouldn't have ads inside them. They should serve one
master, the user.

This is why this is quite different from Google advertising their products on
their websites.

~~~
catnaroek
Given how the Web (especially Google's services!) is used for pretty much
everything nowadays, I don't see any meaningful difference between an
operating system that displays ads and a website that displays ads. Care to
elucidate?

~~~
aethertron
The way things are isn't the way they have to be, or should be.

To get an understanding of where I'm coming from, try this [http://www.loper-
os.org/?p=284](http://www.loper-os.org/?p=284)

------
aq3cn
These claims by MS are not false. Recently MS has equipped Edge with hardware-
based container. This is a plus point in comparison to any other browser out
there.

Source:

[https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2016/09/26/new-w...](https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2016/09/26/new-
windows-10-and-office-365-features-for-the-secure-productive-enterprise)

[http://www.pcworld.com/article/3124225/security/heres-how-
mi...](http://www.pcworld.com/article/3124225/security/heres-how-microsoft-is-
using-containerization-to-protect-edge-users.html)

[https://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-aims-to-gets-tough-on-
se...](https://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-aims-to-gets-tough-on-security-
with-its-edge-browser/)

[http://www.itworldcanada.com/article/microsoft-touts-
contain...](http://www.itworldcanada.com/article/microsoft-touts-container-
protection-for-edge-browser/386876)

------
tracker1
I wonder if chrome, if set to startup with windows, could show a similar
looking "tip" when you launch IE or Edge.

------
based2
[https://www.cvedetails.com/product/32367/Microsoft-
Edge.html...](https://www.cvedetails.com/product/32367/Microsoft-
Edge.html?vendor_id=26)

~~~
dogma1138
[http://www.cvedetails.com/product/15031/Google-
Chrome.html?v...](http://www.cvedetails.com/product/15031/Google-
Chrome.html?vendor_id=1224)

And before you jump about the RCE, MSFT has a very broad definition for what
counts as code execution, most importantly they count any browser systemic XSS
as RCE while Google classifies it as an XSS, same goes with any type of memory
corruption MSFT classifies it as RCE while Google classifies it as DOS unless
there is a fully proven POC.

Most of these vulnerabilities were also reported by MSFT and unlike Google
MSFT submits CVE's for it's internally disclosed vulnerabilities while Google
doesn't.

~~~
bitmapbrother
Can you please cite a source that states that Google does not submit CVE's for
their own internally found vulnerabilities?

If Android is any indication Google certainly submits CVE's for their
internally found vulnerabilities.

------
thro32
Yet another reasons to blocks automated updates on Windows. Lets see how Edge
becomes 'safer' in that situation.

~~~
thro32
Downvotes are nice, but is there any other solution? I want just security
updates without new extra functionality.

MS is unpredictable and I do not trust them. One day it might decide to put
ads on wallpaper or something.

~~~
aq3cn
There is an option to defer upgrade in Windows 10 Pro.

> Some Windows 10 editions let you defer upgrades to your PC. When you defer
> upgrades, new Windows features won’t be downloaded or installed for several
> months. Deferring upgrades doesn’t affect security updates. Note that
> deferring upgrades will prevent you from getting the latest Windows features
> as soon as they’re available.

From:

[https://support.microsoft.com/en-
us/instantanswers/20a98a29-...](https://support.microsoft.com/en-
us/instantanswers/20a98a29-df85-b9e9-f04e-e7812bc903f6/defer-upgrades-in-
windows-10)

[http://www.howtogeek.com/223083/what-does-“defer-
upgrades”-i...](http://www.howtogeek.com/223083/what-does-“defer-upgrades”-in-
windows-10-mean/)

[http://superuser.com/questions/923186/how-can-i-defer-
update...](http://superuser.com/questions/923186/how-can-i-defer-updates-in-
windows-10-home)

~~~
thro32
defering upgrades is not really an solution, unless 'several months' is like 5
years. I need control over my system.

------
sickbeard
Chrome has this thing called ublock though, that's enough not to take edge
seriously

~~~
curried_haskell
Please do not browse the web without uBlock Origin. It's like a condom for
your browser.

~~~
UweSchmidt
Or uMatrix for anyone willing to have quite a bit more control and insight in
what's going on at the expense of some convenience.

