
Show HN: MTailor – Get measured by your iPhone's camera for a custom shirt - mpenn
http://www.mtailor.com/
======
artfuldodger
I'll admit, I was one of the most skeptical people trying it out. I thought
that there's no way an app would be able to properly measure me by simply
twirling once. I went through the process because it was super quick and I
liked how I could customize my shirt the way I liked it. Words cannot express
my astonishment when I received the package in the mail. The shirt fit so
nicely and the quality was incredible. I wore it that same night, and then
again the next day. Def worth trying out, especially if you dislike shopping
like I do.

~~~
nick_riviera
Strangely enough I get the same from £1.75 T-shirts off Amazon and they fit
better and last 4 years longer than the expensive Gieves and Hawkes (tailored)
shirts I had a few years ago...

I think this is all YMMV territory and subject to mystique like wine tasting,
watches (jewellery class watches) and crazy expensive HiFi products.

~~~
mpenn
We have definitely found that more expensive doesn't mean a better fit.
Because every person is shaped differently, what fits great for me will almost
certainly not fit as well on someone else. And being more expensive doesn't
solve that problem.

We use over 14 dimensions for each of our shirts, so that every person who
orders from us has a great fit.

If you can find off-the-rack shirts you love at a lower cost, I think that's
an awesome option. However, I can say personally I've never found anything
off-the-rack I like as much as my custom stuff (both pre-MTailor and now while
doing MTailor), because it fits better, especially in my shoulders, waist and
the length of the shirt.

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cpks
Where are the shirts made? Are you planning to go into pants, suits, jackets,
etc.?

As a business decision, the $69 price-point seems a bit high. That sets it at
elite, rather than mass-market. The problem with elite is outside of SFO and
NYC, you'll get a lot less viral word-of-mouth growth. In most of the world,
elites do talk to each other, but they talk to non-elites a lot more, and when
they do talk to elites, the topic is usually not clothing.

To give a concrete example: I am C-level. As such, I could afford it, but most
people I know would not be able to. The only people I could mention it to
would be VP-level or C-level, most of whom are colleagues rather than friends.
This would limit word-of-mouth from someone like me to perhaps 2-3 people
tops, rather than 20-30 (so in practice, 0 rather than 2-3, since it would
come up in conversation for perhaps 10% of the people I know). At $69, I also
won't buy it on a whim. At a price point competitive with Eddie Bauer, or even
Men's Warehouse, I would, just to see how well it worked. If it worked well,
I'd switch to it. If I did buy it, at $69, I also expect quality. I wouldn't
buy a second one until I see how long the first one lasts. That means repeat
business won't come until you probably run out of runway.

Custom-tailored pants, in India or Africa, cost $10 for the fabric and $3 for
the labor (and are fantastic). Even with a generous mark-up, you ought to be
able to have a slow but inexpensive process that competes with middle class
mass-market goods (not Walmart and Target, but certainly EB and Men's
Warehouse).

~~~
jsmthrowaway
You consider a $69 shirt elite? I've paid about that for every non t-shirt
that I own. Hell, even my t-shirts are about half that, but that might be a
function of my size.

Shit, my ex-wife would pay $150-$200 for what I'd consider to be a basic
blouse without even flinching.

~~~
cypherpnks
Most people on HN are in the elite.

I'd suggest trying any of the wealth calculator apps, and figuring out which
percentile you're in. And please post here once you've done that. Or, go here:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States#mediaviewer/File:Distribution_of_Annual_Household_Income_in_the_United_States_2012.png)

Median household income in the US is $51,000. That's household income, not
individual income. That's what a family of four gets. Take away taxes, and
you're at 37k. Assume $1000 mortgage, and you're at $25k. Car insurance, gas,
etc. brings you down to perhaps $20k. Four cell phones? $19k. Internet,
property tax, utilities, etc? $17k. Food? $14k. Health care? Putting kids
through school? Retirement savings? Once you add in all the bare necessities,
you won't find many people spending $70 on shirts, let alone $150-$200.

To run with your numbers. A $200 basic blouse, times 40 items of clothing
purchased per year by your ex, is $8000. Family of 4 brings that up to $32000.
Perhaps $24000, if you consider kids clothing costs less, or perhaps more, if
you consider it wears out quickly, so you buy a lot of it.

Typically, the biggest expenditures are housing, health care, car, food, and
similar. Clothing is waaay down on the list.

~~~
jsmthrowaway
Wow. I'd _really_ appreciate it if you didn't condescend me by trying to
explain my own wealth percentile, as if I'm completely oblivious to being
showered in money (as you're implying), when I've simply made a remark about
the average price of an item of clothing. That was quite an insulting comment
to get through, and I hope you realize that even if you didn't intend it.

I'd also challenge your assertion that the majority of the HN audience is
elite, as that's a bit of projection, but that's not a fight I'm prepared to
get pulled into right now.

I've spent my entire life at just about every notch on the wealth spectrum
short of having seven figures in the bank (and I came from stretching $10 for
a family of three over two weeks), and I would consider myself upper middle
class at this very moment, yet one constant for me has been the price for an
average article of clothing even if the purchaser had to save up for it.

~~~
cpks
I don't think I have to. You've said enough yourself a few posts down:

> I'll be honest, I wasn't even aware dress shirts were sold at Walmart.

------
mpenn
Miles Penn here, cofounder of MTailor. Feel free to post any questions --
happy to answer them!

~~~
lthornberry
This looks very cool - enough that I finally created an account to ask you a
question. Can you tell me a bit about the production process for the shirts?
Are they made in the US? If overseas, what kind of assurances do you have
about working conditions, etc in the factory? If you can vouch for decent
working conditions, it would be a big selling point for me (and, I think, for
many others).

~~~
cpayne
(In Australia) there's conflict between VERY cheap clothing vs "work
conditions".

How much more would you pay? 10% 20%?

~~~
lthornberry
This question might have been to me - I try only to buy reasonably ethically
made clothing, and figure on paying up to a 50% or so premium for it. I buy a
lot of Patagonia and Ibex, but dress shirts are a problem (suits would be too,
but luckily I don't have to deal with that very often). I do think that new
models of manufacturing have the potential to ameliorate some of the ethical
problems as well, by shrinking the supply chain back down so that retailers
actually have some idea of what's going on in their factories. Everlane is an
example of what I'm thinking about, but I didn't love the shirt I ordered from
there, and they only have S/M/L sizing.

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l_perrin
I've just received mine and I was surprised how perfect the fit was.

Of course, it should be expected considering the measurement process and
everything, but when you receive a box from someone you have never met and the
shirt inside happens to be made exactly for you, it still feels special :)

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trevyn
I'm curious, are you making custom patterns based on the video data, or just
extracting standard measurements and then doing traditional shirtmaking?

Also, please add a solid black fabric! :)

~~~
mpenn
We are making custom patterns! We use over 14 measurements for each shirt --
everything from chest to shoulder slope.

Solid black has been a big request -- we ran out but are working on getting
more :-).

~~~
trevyn
_Very_ cool!

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com2kid
There are a lot of similar "custom men's dress shirts" services around now
days (though good job on the cool tech!), but none of them offer fashionable
men's long sleeve shirts, in styles such as those mass marketed by Rag and
Bone.

As someone with insanely long arms, who already gladly pays $200 per shirt for
off the rack, I'd gladly pay for a service that offered custom tailored men's
fashion shirts.

Any thoughts of moving towards that market?

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ajiang
As someone who loves getting tailored shirts, the MTailor process was unreal.
A couple minutes in front of an app, and a few weeks later I got a shirt that
fits really nicely. This is a startup I really want to succeed, because if
they do, I never have to go shopping at a brick and mortar again - just order
online and everything will be tailored to my fit.

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rahimnathwani
I'm curious - do you source your fabric within mainland China mainland, or
import it? I live in Beijing, and have found the selection and quality of
fabrics at tailors in Beijing quite lacking (compared to Hong Kong tailor
shops, or compared to ready-to-wear shirts from Charles Tyrwhitt).

~~~
mpenn
Mostly from mainland, but we only put fabrics on the app that I've felt
personally thought were good enough.

Since you cannot feel our fabric, if you don't like a shirt from us, we'll
remake the shirt with a different fabric or refund you (no questions asked, no
hassle).

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timrogers
I'd love to use this - guess it's not available outside the US? I'm in London.

~~~
mpenn
Sorry, not yet! We've had problems with VAT / taxes, so we're US only (and
we'll ship some shirts to Canada as well).

~~~
scoot
Can you be more specific on what problems you've had?

As a non-EU company, you are under no obligation to collect VAT & import
duties on shipments to the EU. These will often be collected by shipping agent
on behalf of the recipient's tax authority, otherwise it is up to the
individual to declare their liability.

To claim this as a reason not to trade internationally is a disservice to your
potential customers and to your shareholders, and frankly reads as "we have no
idea what we're doing, so we're not going to do it, just in case".

If you're really not sure, pay for some basic tax and legal advice who will
tell you there's nothing to worry about. Meanwhile, you're loosing potential
revenue and future referrals. (Assuming reasonable standards of product
quality...)

~~~
mpenn
I spent some time looking into it. Quoting a customer in Europe 1 price (pre-
VAT) and then they need to figure out how to pay the extra VAT separately
didn't sit well with me. So I want to figure out a way where the customer
wouldn't get a 2nd bill when his shirt arrives. This started to get
complicated, so I unfortunately have not been able to get to the bottom of it
yet.

If you have any advice on how to ship to EU and pay the taxes on my end (so
the customer doesn't pay something separately), please let me know!

~~~
rahimnathwani
This might be a good starting point:
[http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPort...](http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageTravel_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000014&propertyType=document#P160_14425)

It seems like it's possible to prepay VAT if you're shipping from Hong Kong,
but not if you're shipping directly from China.

~~~
mpenn
Thanks rahimnathwani. I had already looked at that -- the fact that they don't
link to where you go to sign up for that arrangement didn't look promising for
happening in a timely matter.

We also currently ship all our shirts to the US for a variety of reasons
(including quality control).

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filmgirlcw
Please consider a female version!

~~~
mpenn
Definitely in the pipeline! We had to start somewhere, but we plan to expand
into every article of clothing for men and women.

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elviejo
this looks pretty cool

