
Ask HN: Can't find job, should I beg/employ empathy? - coralreef
I taught myself iPhone development and the last few years have been shipping apps and making a living as an indie developer. I also did a 6-course certificate program at a local university (CS1 &amp; CS2, Unix, etc.). I&#x27;ve shipped millions of downloads, had a small acquisition event, etc.<p>I&#x27;ve done about 5 in-person interviews so far, all rejections. There are only so many iOS roles in my city (Toronto) left to apply to.<p>It could be that I&#x27;m bad at technical interviewing&#x2F;whiteboard programming (although I have prepared quite a bit by doing HackerRank and such). But even with easy interviews, I&#x27;m getting passed on. I&#x27;m beginning to suspect that when I&#x27;m being compared to the competition in the market, hirers are going with the safer bets (CS degrees, internships, previous corporate experience).<p>My thought now is that maybe I need to get an internship or junior role, but I&#x27;m almost 30. I&#x27;m not sure conventional application processes will work for me, I may need to hack this by emailing founders directly and basically &quot;begging&quot; to prove myself.<p>Does anyone have advice on what I should do?<p>Thanks
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52-6F-62
I work and live in Toronto. I can provide some anecdotal support, I think.

I was, like you, previously working independently doing mostly simple websites
for small businesses (and volunteering with the UN online service[0]) after
leaving a job I really didn't like. (Though I'll add, I'm capable beyond that)

It took me months of pursuing, piping out applications and receiving no word
back in order to get a job. Ultimately I was hired by a very large company for
a developer position in media. It's not my dream role, but it's great for
learning, getting a feel for a corporate environment, and good for the old
resume.

From my experiences I would say that if you have had 5 interviews in and
around the city, you're doing pretty well as it is.

Just keep applying, and do so in a variety of ways. If you can get ahold of a
person, then try writing them but don't grovel. Try out other services, too.

Hired[1] operates within the city, and they seem to have a healthy pool. Get
on LinkedIn as well. While it might seem a little hokey or geared toward
corporate lifers rather than tech professionals, you'll find Toronto seems to
still lean heavily on it and as such there are a lot of recruiters on there
constantly head-hunting. I say this and I very rarely use it.

edit: I'll add if you've been solely focused on tech companies, then try
branching out. The big banks are always hiring iOS devs. So are companies in
media and many other places. Thomson Reuters labs operates here, Amazon
operates here now, there are so many and they're all hiring. Granted, you'll
see a salary lower than what's expected for the same roles in the US, but it's
a starting point at least.\\\

edit no 2: I'm also without a CS degree. Completely self taught, started when
I was a kid.

[0]
[https://www.onlinevolunteering.org/en](https://www.onlinevolunteering.org/en)
[1] [https://hired.ca/](https://hired.ca/)

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byoung2
_I 'm beginning to suspect that when I'm being compared to the competition in
the market, hirers are going with the safer bets (CS degrees, internships,
previous corporate experience)._

If this were true, you wouldn't make it to the interview. How did you think
you did during these interviews? If you thought it went well, but they passed,
maybe it's just a matter of cultural fit. Keep trying and you'll find
something.

~~~
coralreef
The interviews with algorithms questions I probably don't do as well.

But there were a few without those, and I felt I did good. One thing I might
be answering poorly on is process experience "Are you familiar with Agile? Do
you write unit tests? What's your experience working in teams?".

------
twobyfour
FWIW, a mid-level developer with success working independently or freelance is
typically a great fit for a startup willing to hire remote workers. Your
background may be less appealing for a typical corporate job at a larger
company.

And remember that junior/senior titles don't refer to age. They refer to level
of experience or skill. And experience isn't just about churning out code.
It's also about working on a team and within a formal (yes, that includes
agile) software process. A title is just a title. Take a position where you
can learn the things you need to learn to take the next steps in your career.

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JPLeRouzic
May be you should try to know the companies where you want to be hired and
adapt your proposal for each of them. For example:

\- A big company would prefer to play safe, no degree, no job (similar to
"nobody will be fired for buying IBM").

\- A startup has certainly totaly unreasonable expectations (too new in HR...)

\- Are you assertive/ambitious enough? HR might be suspicious , you know
everybody lies during interviews... I have seen CVs proposed by subcontractors
that were redacted and look at the current inflation in qualifiers
"extraordinary coder" etc...

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eternalban
Consider more interviews (5 is nothing), remote jobs, stretching beyond iOS,
etc. before begging. Be positive.

~~~
coralreef
I agree 5 isn't much, but I've applied to so many more. There aren't too many
job listings left that I haven't applied to.

