
Death Valley soars to 130 degrees, Earth’s highest temperature since 1931 - jbegley
https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2020/08/16/death-valley-heat-record/
======
Terretta
There’s something puzzling about these “Earth’s highest”, as back in the 80’s
near Lake Chad, it seems we used to see above 40 C often enough it was notable
but not at all unusual, and sometimes hotter, 45 C or occasionally 50 C. Past
50 C, the French and German thermometers didn’t have marks.

I had 125 F - 135 F in my memory. These articles imply that’s not possible. If
a tree falls in the woods ... Or, rather, if the sun heats your day in Africa
but nobody measures it, is it not hot?

In the surprisingly hot times, your home, at night, furniture was hot to the
touch. Weirdest thing, so used to objects indoors at night being cooler to
touch.

Too hot to sleep, so a trick was to get in shower in a top sheet then get back
to bed and hope to fall asleep before very fast evaporation stopped cooling.

Everything I’ve researched says I’m mistaken, it wasn’t that hot. But then I
wonder, how great are temperature records in obscure microclimates in Saharan
and sub-Saharan Africa?

// Records or it didn’t happen.

~~~
swimfar
"The standard measuring conditions for temperature are in the air, 1.5 metres
(5 ft) above the ground, and shielded from direct sunlight intensity" [1]

Lots of people claim that their region/country has had hotter weather than the
records, but I doubt the temperatures were taken in these more precise
conditions. It's not like there aren't scientists and meteorologists all over
the world (including Africa) who are measuring these things constantly.

If you're standing on dark surface in a hot place, the air temperature can be
much higher. "In recent years a ground temperature of 84 °C (183.2 °F) has
been recorded in Port Sudan, Sudan."

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_weather_records#Measur...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_weather_records#Measuring_conditions)

~~~
Ozzie_osman
My favorite is when people use their cars thermometer to declare the
temperature. Yes, of course your car that has been sitting in the sun with
full-on greenhouse effect is going to read some insane record-breaking number,
but no, that's not the real outside temperature.

~~~
lqet
Is a car thermometer really placed inside the car? I would've expected it to
be placed under the back of the car.

~~~
Ozzie_osman
No you're right, it's generally outside, but definitely impacted by radiant
heat from either the car, pavement, etc. A car in the shade or a car being
driven will usually have a lower temperature reading than one parked in the
sun.

------
dx87
I was in Kuwait at the end of July back around 2010, and the temperature was
in the 120s. I remember getting off the airplane and thinking that we were
walking through the exhaust of the jet engine, until I realized that's just
how the air feels for a big chunk of the year. You get used to it, but it
feels like someone is pointing a blow dryer in your face any time the wind
blows.

~~~
perl4ever
Driving through Texas in the summer a long time ago, I got out of my car
briefly and was struck by how my long pants were palpably trapping cooler air
and shielding me, when I'm used to thinking of less clothing as being suited
to hot weather.

~~~
KozmoNau7
There's a reason why traditional clothing in many very hot regions is loose,
long and light (in both color and weight). Air is an insulator and clothes
provide good UV protection.

~~~
pa7x1
For temperature you want IR protection.

~~~
Valgrim
All frequencies of light will transfer heat. UV light can cause damage to DNA
because it's energetic enough to be ionizing (it can detach electrons). IR
light is not ionizing, but we associate it with heat because the black-body
radiation of things we generally interact with (humans and stovetops, for
example) is mostly in the infrared spectrum. The sun is much hotter and emits
light in IR, visible and UV spectrum.

~~~
pa7x1
All EM radiation carries energy and the higher the frequency more energy is
carried by each photon but that doesn't mean that the energy is transferred as
heat (i.e. increase in temperature of the body).

The reason why IR is felt as heat is because it has the right wavelength to
excite atoms and molecules unions into resonance.

> IR light is not ionizing, but we associate it with heat because the black-
> body radiation of things we generally interact with (humans and stovetops,
> for example) is mostly in the infrared spectrum.

In particular, this relationship is backwards. We don't associate heat with
those objects because they happen to emit in the infrared. Since they emit in
the infrared, they are good at heating (i.e. exciting molecular unions into
vibration modes that make most of the energy stored). This is related to the
fact that most of the mass of an object is associated to the nucleus, instead
of the electrons. If it was the contrary, exciting electrons into higher
energy states would be a better way to transfer energy into an object.

On the other hand, UV protection is good to prevent high energy being
transferred into electrons which then get excited into higher energy states
messing up electronic bonds and potentially our DNA.

------
arendtio
@HN: If you use the word 'degrees' please add F or C to indicate which scale
you are referring to. Many here are from the US and would interpret it as
degrees Fahrenheit while many others read it as degrees Celsius.

~~~
madeofpalk
I only know Celsius, but it's pretty clear here from context that it's
Fahrenheit. It's annoying, because I still don't know what the measured
temperature actually was, but I feel pretty safe assuming that the air
temperature was not above the boiling point of water where I guess there would
be spontaneous combustion

~~~
EarthIsHome
The best way to interpret Fahrenheit (for Celsius people) is to think of a
scale from 0 to a 100 in terms of human comfort.

0F is really cold.

100F is really hot.

Something towards the middle feels pretty good (50F, 60F.. but really depends
on preference in this region).

So, with that in mind, 130F is scorching off the charts, and I wouldn't want
to be out there.

~~~
playpause
> The best way to interpret Fahrenheit (for Celsius people) is to think of a
> scale from 0 to a 100 in terms of human comfort.

I've heard this several times, but I can tell you it really doesn't help me to
get a good sense of Farenheit. My theory is Americans enjoy describing it this
way (0 = really cold, 100 = really hot) because it seems pragmatic and humane,
but it probably does little to help them get a feel for the scale. The main
reason they have a good feel for the Farenheit scale is lots of experience
with it, same as any other scale. Lots of internalised data points that create
a frame of reference.

We Brits like to think our scale is easy because 0 = melting ice, 100 =
boiling water. But when I estimate the outdoor temperature as 25 C, I think my
brain is really just linking that to past experiences of similar temperatures,
the ice/boiling water thing doesn't come into it.

~~~
liability
Americans describe it in this way because in large swaths of America, 100F is
more or less the hottest it will ever get, and 0F is about as cold as it will
ever get.

It's not a matter of _" getting a sense of the scale"_. That sense of the
scale comes from lived experience of weather, not brief textual descriptions
of the scale.

~~~
playpause
So we agree then?

------
dr_dshiv
I'm so happy I got to see Marta Beckett's show in the Death Valley Opera
House. It was a fantastic experience I'll never forget.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amargosa_Opera_House_and_Hot...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amargosa_Opera_House_and_Hotel)

Then, spending the night on the giant sand dunes. The deeper you'd put your
hand in the sand, the warmer it would get.

Special people in Death Valley. Gorgeous landscape.

------
Tempest1981
Reminded me of this recent news:

"Warming Greenland ice sheet passes point of no return"

[https://phys.org/news/2020-08-greenland-ice-
sheet.html](https://phys.org/news/2020-08-greenland-ice-sheet.html)

------
Lorin
Since when has the Washington Post messed with the URL bar? When you visit the
link, it removes the path from the browser history, so if you attempt
returning to it you end up on the WP front page instead.

~~~
svnpenn
Its a soft paywall - try in private mode

~~~
the_gipsy
Doesn't work

------
eps
54.4 °C

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cromulent
I think there is a typo, as the Death Valley record was set in 1913.

This article goes a long way towards discrediting that record though:

[http://stormbruiser.com/chase/2013/08/29/death-
valleys-134f-...](http://stormbruiser.com/chase/2013/08/29/death-
valleys-134f-record-temperature-study-part-one/)

~~~
EricE
Not a typo but deliberate obfuscation

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYiFWhvg7Fg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYiFWhvg7Fg)

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blueblisters
Death Valley is an underrated park. It's an amazing place to visit in the
winter, when it's more pleasant / cooler.

~~~
athms
Shh, don't ruin it. It is like all the yahoos that recently discovered Joshua
Tree and decided to trash the place.

~~~
berbec
I thought your comment was going to end with "and buy the album"

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selimthegrim
Jacobabad, in Sindh province of Pakistan is not so far from where my mom grew
up in Guddu. I am certain they have recorded temperatures this high and USAF
used to fly drones to Afghanistan out of the Air Force base there.

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vaxman
Places you can’t use a (consumer grade) smartphone (because they will self
power off) or even an outdoor WiFi hotspot (because the transceivers distort).
If your car breaks down...

------
dgellow
130°F <=> ~54°C

------
shmerl
That's 54.4°C for the context.

~~~
__sy__
what about wet-bulb temperature?

~~~
ars
It's an EXTREMELY dry place (around 5%), so the web-bulb temperature is not
especially high, an online calculator estimates numbers in the low 30s
Celsius.

~~~
bleepblorp
A wet bulb temperature of 35 Centigrade is fatal within hours even with shade
and fan cooling.

"Low 30s" wet bulb is a very big deal.

Sourcing: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_temperature#Wet-
bulb_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_temperature#Wet-
bulb_temperature_and_health)

~~~
adrianN
Well, it's not called "Death Valley" because of the landscape.

~~~
a_square_peg
Based on reanalysis data, it looks like wetbulb temperature never goes above
25C around Death Valley. Average temperature seems to have gone up by about 2
degrees Celsius since 1980 though, from ~19.5 degC to ~21.5 degC.

Ref: ERA5 data & [https://climate-explorer.oikolab.com](https://climate-
explorer.oikolab.com)

------
nojvek
HN is predominantly American so "degrees" is implicitly assumed to be "degrees
Farenheit", but for the non US folks here, 130F = 54.4C.

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ur-whale
[http://archive.is/7sZNp](http://archive.is/7sZNp)

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Osiris
I rode my motorcycle through Death Valley just last month and it was an
unseasonably cool 105 F. The average for that time of year is 113 F.

"Climate change" used to be more commonly referred to as "global warming", but
my understanding now is that climate change is actually causing more
volatility in the climate, meaning larger swings in temperatures, which has
other impacts on things like tornadoes and blizzards.

Is this assessment accurate? I'd love to have a better understanding of the
effects of climate change.

------
amai
On a side note: Why did the US fight an independence war, but then used
imperial units?

------
bashwizard
And here I am in Sweden where we've had the coldest july since the 60's.

~~~
take_a_breath
This article is about temperatures in August.

~~~
bashwizard
And my comment was about temperatures in July.

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huffmsa
Why were there so many heat records in the 30s and 40s?

First time they'd been measured? Solar activity?

~~~
EricE
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYiFWhvg7Fg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYiFWhvg7Fg)

------
tobyhinloopen
Celcius of american degrees?

~~~
baaym
The image in the article shows it's measured in Fahrenheit.

For those working with Celsius: its 54,4 degrees.

~~~
richrichardsson
> For those working with Celsius

So literally everywhere except:

United States, Bahamas, Cayman Islands, Liberia, Palau, The Federated States
of Micronesia and Marshall Islands.

~~~
pikzel
Archer: 'cause you never think of those other two as having their shit
together.

------
danans
Hopefully someone cooked an egg on the sidewalk.

~~~
mixologic
130 degrees is hot enough to leave a steak outside and let it sous vide in the
air.

~~~
grogenaut
actually depending on the steak it might not be. I just did a nice roast today
for 11 hours at 180f... it was a nice solid 131 in the middle at the end. Now
I can't be sure the inside of the smoker was actually 180 but it takes 11
hours at "180" to get to 131 temp, doing 11 hours at 130 isn't really going to
get you there. Also thats in a humidified smoker. That steak gonna get
realllly dry just being out in 130 degrees in death valley at 5% humidity.

Remember water conducts way more heat than air.

Also egg whites don't set up until 150 or so, and yolks start firming at 158,
so at 130 that's going to be a real runny egg unless you put it on say a black
sheet of metal.

~~~
djrogers
> Also egg whites don't set up until 150 or so, and yolks start firming at 158

Eggs (especially the yolks) actually have an odd trait of setting at lower
temps if held long enough. Try sous-vide eggs at 145 for 2-3 hours and compare
to 45 minutes - completely different yolk.

~~~
grogenaut
what would you recommend then as the best way to sous-vide eggs? I can't find
a good answer online. well I can find lots of answers but a lot of them are
wrong

------
valuearb
It’s the dry heat.

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pacamara619
That's 55° Celsius for all of you using intelligent units.

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yters
so we had higher temperatures pre 1931?

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zelly
We should flood it with seawater.

~~~
m463
Not too far north of Death Valley is Mono Lake.

You go there and the lake looks... concentrated.

I recall reading something Mark Twain wrote about it:

"The lake is two hundred feet deep, and its sluggish waters are so strong with
alkali that if you only dip the most hopelessly soiled garment into them once
or twice, and wring it out, it will be found as clean as if it had been
through the ablest of washerwomen’s hands."

[https://www.gutenberg.org/files/3177/3177-h/3177-h.htm](https://www.gutenberg.org/files/3177/3177-h/3177-h.htm)

~~~
EricE
The lake looks concentrated because Los Angelas took all the water.

Look up the Los Angelas Aqueduct.

~~~
m463
I didn't realize LA reached quite that far away, but you're right. amazing.

------
TwoBit
Actually probably the highest temperature legitimately recorded, as the 1931
temp was probably wrong.

~~~
adamhearn
Why do you say that?

~~~
duskwuff
[https://www.wunderground.com/blog/weatherhistorian/an-
invest...](https://www.wunderground.com/blog/weatherhistorian/an-
investigation-of-death-valleys-134f-world-temperature-record.html)

------
tzvsi
My car registered 114 as I passed through Stockton, CA today.

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paxys
My apartment (in San Francisco) feels about the same right now without AC.

------
LoSboccacc
coldest july in many places around the world: "local temperature is not
climate!"

one place has a temporary record: "definite proof of climate change!"

I know climate change is a real issue, but I can see how the media machine is
helping in producing skeptics

oh, and the dogmatic aspect of it all as well, where even skirting on the
_side_ of the _very real_ communication problem gets heavily downvoted

~~~
icebraining
That's a strawman of the article, nowhere does it claim this reading is proof
of climate change.

~~~
LoSboccacc
> Scientists have found that the intensity, duration and frequency of heat
> waves worldwide are increasing due to human-caused climate change. A 2019
> study found the planet has entered a “new climate regime” with
> “extraordinary” heat waves that global warming is worsening.

they're definitely making the connection.

did _you_ read the article?

~~~
icebraining
They not saying "this reading show climate change is true", they're saying
"climate change (which is an accepted theory in the field) predicts readings
like these will become more common".

~~~
LoSboccacc
that's just bog standard plausible deniability, when a journalist put two
things in a single page you know damn well they want the reader to make the
connection and fill in the dot for them, and apparently it works since there's
people white knighting for them, which circles me back to the initial topic:
it's so damn easy to manipulate people to defend opinions not theirs, it's a
wonder society can still function under this constant siege.

~~~
icebraining
Of course they're making a connection, I didn't deny that. I'm saying that
connection goes the other way. But if you're going to discount anyone who
disagrees with you as just "manipulated", there's no point in keeping this
discussion. Have a nice day.

------
haltingproblem
Lets put this to the test from first principles. For this to be _truly_ the
hottest temperature:

\- All points that _we know_ to be possible candidates for the hottest
temperature should have been measured. Lets say any spot within 10% of 130
should be recorded. So all spots that had measured temperatures 115+ in the
last two decades should have been continuously recorded since 1931. I doubt
this is true.

\- Are we are measuring _all possible_ points on earth where highest temps are
possible? This is an "All Swans are White" category of pronouncement. Given
how much of the earth is still remote, war torn and just not probed out, I
doubt this is true.

These pronouncements from journalists are infuriating. These journos typically
have zero training in scientific rigor and very strong ideas of their own
efficacy. Woe to the scientists who encourage these statements. Alarmism sells
more copies (or clicks) than tempered scientifically accurate statements.

~~~
idlewords
It's always a joy to see posts that derive stuff from first principles in
order to call out journalists for lacking scientific rigor.

~~~
haltingproblem
Thank you. Appreciate your comment even more since my comment was down voted
:)

