
Ask HN: How to deal with constantly getting cut off in work discussions? - president
I work in an office environment (large Bay Area corporate enterprise software co) where people are constantly cutting each other off in conversations and technical discussions. For people that are a more soft-spoken, it is almost impossible to get a word in - nevermind getting a full thought-process in. This has negative implications on work discussions as the loudest people who are usually dominating the conversations, from my observation, are usually not the brightest.<p>I am not someone who tolerates getting cut-off easily but it is frustrating and it takes a lot of energy for me to drive the conversation back on track and say what I want to say. This is something that I never had to deal in previous work environments prior to moving to the Bay Area so I&#x27;m inclined to think it&#x27;s something specific to this area. Recently, I have moved to a team in my company where it is almost damn near impossible to have my thoughts heard and in some cases, I just shut myself off from discussions to save my energy. It&#x27;s starting to affect my work life and my daily mood because in a lot of cases I just don&#x27;t have the energy to reject and explain why we shouldn&#x27;t be doing X, Y, or Z.<p>Is this a common thing in workplaces? I would be interested in hearing if people have been in this situation and how they&#x27;ve dealt with it if so.
======
andrewcarter
I have a problem cutting people off- I get way to excited about what I want to
say and jump in. I really appreciate when people call me out and don't take it
personally. I also try to work on it and try to help steer the conversation to
other people who have been cut off when I see it happen. So IMO don't be
afraid to politely just let someone know! If you don't feel comfortable during
the meeting, maybe speak with them afterwards, doesn't need to be a big deal,
just let em know. If you don't feel comfortable being a little
confrontational, speaking with manager types or even just before a meeting
indirectly bringing up that everyone should focus on it can help too.

I know sometimes people cut off others very purposefully or in malicious ways,
but it sounds like maybe where you're working that's just how it is- so
everyone kind of has to play the game to be heard. In that case, try and
change the game! A little bit of discomfort now can lead to yourself and
probably others being happier down the road.

~~~
hinkley
A lot of the time I’m like you, or I see that the person is starting a long
train of thoughts based on a faulty premise... why would you let someone
catastrophize or take everyone in a magic carpet ride that is based on bad
information?

But that is unfortunately not always why. Some people take a very, very long
time to get to a point they’ve already telegraphed long before. In a
conversation that’s about problem solving, this is wasting everybody’s time,
and I will absolutely shove you out of the spotlight and without compunction.
Daylight’s burning.

To these people I say, think about your writing style. Do you bury the lead?
Do you save your best information for last? Sort yourself out. Give the person
permission to stop reading when they get the gist. Then try to do the same
with your speaking. Maybe work on noticing comprehension cues from your peers.

The longer we go on a tangent the higher the probability that everyone’s
working memory has been reset. If that keeps happening, a good solution is
unlikely to arise. And if you don’t have time to do it right you have time to
do it over. If you’re accepting defeat at the beginning, just pull the bandaid
off, pick any reversible solution and get on to other problems.

~~~
DanBC
The way to address those people is in private, outside a meeting. Behaving the
way you do is just rude, and is not acceptable in any workplace I'm part of.

> and I will absolutely shove you out of the spotlight and without compunction

Just to be really clear: this makes you toxic.

~~~
hinkley
There are times when the stream of thought is the most important thing in the
room. Especially in triage situations.

Brevity allows the process to continue. It avoids upsetting the checklists in
people's brains. Grandstanding, soap boxing, and shaggy dog stories are
actively harmful to this process. These are primarily the situations where my
patience for ineffective communication is at its nadir, and we can't stop this
process to have an intervention or let you keep interfering.

Also, by unspoken consensus you will quickly find yourself disinvited from
these meetings.

~~~
harimau777
My experience is that this sort of approach (pre-empting people who are
explaining their point) often results in a "solution" being reached quickly
that fails to take into account the nuance that the speaker was trying to
explain.

------
duxup
I worked at a place like that. I wasn't even aware of the problem. It was just
how things were.

One day our director called a meeting and announced that our whole department
had a serious issue with interrupting. He noted the results of interrupting
each other (not hearing each other out, drifting off topic, just being seen by
the rest of the company as jerks). He laid out a bunch of rules for meetings,
discussions, etc and he policed them for a few months.

It mostly worked as everyone (even the interrupters) saw the benefits pretty
fast and the urge to interrupt seemed to fade as everyone knew they'd get to
get all their words out of their mouth when it was their turn. Meetings even
went faster.

Might be worth probing if your manager or any leadership feel like it is a
problem / what the impact of this communication style is.

~~~
icedchai
What do you do when the director / manager is actually the one doing the
interrupting?

~~~
Tagbert
You can still bring it up to them as a problem that you have noticed where
"some people" get overeager and interrupt others. mention the downsides and
ask if he can help change the culture. You don't have to point the finger at
him and it helps to enlist his help rather than complain.

~~~
icedchai
Why not just confront them directly? Why beat around the bush? Politeness only
goes so far.

~~~
EForEndeavour
It depends on their relationship, and the workplace and overall culture they
grew up in. For various reasons, not everyone will be comfortable directly
pointing out a flaw in their own boss.

I'd say that without knowing more, it's better to advise the safer and more
diplomatic approach.

------
epc
People, usually peer engineers, but occasionally executives, would try to
rebut whatever I was trying to state as I'd state it.

I learned to be an utter asshole to these people.

When interrupted, I stop speaking. Entirely. Nine out of ten times the person
interrupting realizes I'm no longer speaking and…also stops speaking. I guess
they think this is a conversation? I don't know.

So I restart. From wherever I started, not where I was interrupted. Because
I'm usually trying to get a coherent point across, an argument, a statement,
whatever.

And if interrupted again…I stop and repeat the process.

I don't raise my voice.

I may throw a glare or two.

I have found that after two or three of these cycles the person in question
waits until I'm done or I ask for questions or whatever the context demands.

In turn, I consciously try to refrain from interrupting someone else,
especially women. I am in no way perfect at this.

I've had people tell me (or my manager more likely) that my silence in these
moments is more intimidating than if I just barrelled over the interruptor.

I have heard that in organizations where there's recognition that this is a
problem, a talking stick or some other object, helps: the only person who can
speak has to have the object, they "have the floor" until they relinquish it.

And for the people who are prone to interrupting others: cut that shit out.
You're not impressing anyone. You're not getting your point across. You may
well have a valid point or issue or comment, but if the only way you know to
make an argument is to disrupt anyone else…then that's the takeaway, not
whatever your issue actually is.

------
a2tech
I’ve been witnessing a masterclass in this at work lately. One of the faculty
I work with has a habit of jumping in on people when they’re talking. One of
our new faculty simple refuses to spot when the other person jumps in—-just
simply keeps taking over the interrupter. Doesn’t speak up, doesn’t alter
their cadence, simply continues to talk. It’s amazing.

~~~
jtms
this is a VERY hard thing to learn, but I am trying it. Sometimes it just
requires more concentration and determination than I can muster. Also the
person doing the interrupting will occasionally accuse YOU of interrupting
them. I hate feeling bullied by interrupters so I am constantly working to
master any and all tactics for shutting down what I see as this
rude/disrespectful/disruptive behavior.

~~~
solipsism
Why? This is passive aggressive.

Am I taking crazy pills? What's the problem with just politely saying, "Can
you please not interrupt?" or "Let me finish my point please."

~~~
Tade0
_What 's the problem with just politely saying, "Can you please not
interrupt?"_

I'm assuming this option has already been exhausted and didn't have any
effect.

I've worked with people who prefer to apologise all the time instead of
changing their behaviour. When you bring that up they... apologise and move
on.

~~~
Cthulhu_
Do a God of War on them: "Don't be sorry, be better". Apologising comes quite
naturally for a lot of people, because apologising is easier than changing
unwanted behaviour.

I've become aware of that recently because of reasons, and I think it's all
right to not just drop it after someone apologises. It's all right to not
accept an apology if the underlying behaviour isn't changed.

------
king_panic
I work with a team from Bangladore daily and they frequently interrupt. I
don't know if it's a cultural difference but it seems that way. I know when
someone begins to speak Ill hear "ACTUALLY..." or "SORRY BUT..." soon enough.

Two things work. First is if I start a sentence I finish it. If you start
talking then stop, you implicitly give permission to someone else to interrupt
you when they interject. Get over the awkwardness of two people talking at
once. They now (mostly) let me finish my thoughts -- after I started doing
this.

This one is sneaky, but I do it when someone is especially obnoxious. They'll
interrupt (on a call) and Ill say "Hey (name), are you there? We can't hear
you." They freak out and beseechingly yell into their mic like Sandra Bullock
in Gravity and then Ill calmly say "oh there you are, as I was saying..." and
complete my thoughts. It's a pattern interrupt. Not the most honorable method,
but it works.

I find I interrupting people while they speak to be terribly rude. I judge
people pretty harshly who do so, which is probably my own hang up. These two
methods have worked for me.

~~~
bvinc
I spent some time in India. One social aspect that I noticed right away is
that lines aren't really a thing. If someone is ordering food at a cart, and
you stand behind them, other people will assume you don't want to order and
they'll just go around you.

I imagine that living in a place with such high population density causes
behavior that seems rude and pushy to us in America.

~~~
magduf
>I imagine that living in a place with such high population density causes
behavior that seems rude and pushy to us in America.

Not at all. The population density in Japan is extremely high too, and they
don't behave this way at all. This is entirely cultural: some cultures don't
respect rules very well, other cultures do. Jumping line in Japan is
considered extremely rude.

------
adrusi
Speakers tend to prefer either a high considerateness or high involvement
style of conversation. Considerate speakers prefer conversations where parties
wait for each other to finish and take turns speaking, while involved speakers
prefer those where parties jump in when they have something to add. [0]

High considerateness style is getting too much credit in this thread. The two
styles are similar in the relevant respect: more dominant speakers get more
airtime. Conversations in high considerateness style don't dictate a turn
order, so when someone finishes speaking, there's a competition for who gets
the floor, and dominant speakers will win more often, and then get to keep
talking for as long as they want. Effectively, high considerateness style just
increases the packet size, without changing the bandwidth distribution.

High considerateness probably does have the advantage over high involvement in
problem solving conversations, since it makes it easier to communicate more
complex thoughts, but it's not the best. These two styles describe organic
conversations, but it's possible to impose a rule-based structure that makes
problem solving conversations more productive by dictating a turn-order (not
necessarily in a static way). A structured conversation style that biases the
competition for the floor in favor of those who have insights rather than
dominance will outperform high considerateness style.

Neither of the organic styles are optimized for problem solving. High
considerateness is optimized for preventing speakers from abusing the ability
to jump in while someone else is speaking to silence people for political
reasons. High involvement is optimized for making conversations enjoyable so
that people actually want to have them.

In an ideal world, we would use high involvement style as a default, high
considerateness in politically tense company, and various kinds of structured
conversations when work needs to get done.

[0]
[https://linguistextraordinaire.com/2018/01/07/conversational...](https://linguistextraordinaire.com/2018/01/07/conversational-
styles-is-it-better-to-be-polite-or-direct/)

~~~
taejo
It's possible, as someone used to high-involvement style, to converse in a way
that's less hostile to the higher-considerateness speakers in the group. For
example, if you start talking and notice that somebody has abruptly stopped
talking, wrap your point up as quickly as possible and explicitly give them
back the floor: "<name>, you were saying...?". On the other hand, if they keep
talking with you until they wrap up, they're using a higher involvment style
and you can keep going.

------
notus
If I see other people do it I make a point to circle back to the person who
was cut off immediately after the person who cut them off finishes and make a
comment like "Sorry you were cut off, you were saying." That being said, know
your audience before taking that approach. I wouldn't do it to an executive
for example but I have no problem doing it to a director or manager (people in
my experience who are notorious for doing this).

------
agentultra
I too preserve my energy.

I’ve internalized patience. I’m not in a rush to be heard or make a point. I
use the time others are speaking to listen and formulate my response. Then
when it is my turn to speak I try to limit myself only to what needs to be
said.

It can be very hard on me to do this. Especially when the conversation steers
into something I am passionate about or I am completely uninterested in. It
takes a lot of practice and energy to be polite, show interest, and listen to
what is being said.

I find that the most effective technique in my arsenal is to wait. Then when
there is a moment of silence I turn the tables and repeat back what it is I
heard from the other person in my own words. I may ask a question or two to
ensure I completely understand what they are saying. I find that there are
many cultures where it is unusual and disarming for others to intentionally
try to understand you. Once someone is aware they are being interviewed and
their thoughts are being thoroughly and fairly considered I find the
conversation turns into my favour and I can get my point across without having
to interject.

Shouting over people to get attention is.. odd. I mean I have to do that with
my children because they are not old enough to be considerate and hold a
conversation. But I resist the temptation with them. If I am quiet and patient
they listen better.

And sometimes none of this works. If I get into a conversation with more than
one person and everyone is moving too quickly I simply cannot handle it. I
politely remove myself from the conversation and follow up through back
channels with individuals as necessary.

~~~
vonholstein
+1 I agree with waiting. In fact I'm personally coming around to the point of
view that 90% of verbal technical discussions miss a key point which becomes
very evident on reflection and/or are an inefficient use of time(N developers
* x minutes and so on). You can be much more effective by writing a doc about
the subject, reviewing it over email/Slack with an in-person discussion if
required.

~~~
agentultra
I cannot stress how important writing is. Writing is thinking. And often
writing what you intend to argue in a meeting is an effective way to solidify
your point.

If you think you can convince someone by reasoning about it from the seat of
your pants don’t be surprised when your colleagues are not convinced.

This is good advice!

Although sometimes you have to bite the bullet and accommodate your hands-on
improvisational types and have a good old-fashioned spit-balling session!

Just write it down afterwards.

------
andymoe
Yes, it's common especially in places where it goes un-checked. One idea that
can work to start to change this behavior is to verbalize when _someone else_
is cut off. "Bob, it sounded like you were had something to add." If you start
helping others get a word in some folks will start to get the message.
Another, more direct approach, is feedback to those that keep cutting folks
off. Finally, you can push for "retro" type meetings where you bring up this
kind of thing. If you are feeling this way fore sure others are and you will
start to see retention issues and a company filled with a mono culture of
folks. The keyword to look into is "psychological safety" and how to foster
that.

~~~
stcredzero
I don't think it's best to think of this in terms of "safety." Interruption is
a dark pattern. It enables the user of the pattern to gain more attention and
get more "turns" at speaking, but does it at the expense of group members
being able to express complicated or difficult concepts. It's a pattern which
suppresses thought and information.

~~~
asfarley
Do you see the value in interrupt-based software? Why should there be any real
distinction between software message-passing and human message-passing?

The complete rejection of interruption-during-conversation is equivalent to
the denial of existence of far-too-long monologues, isn't it?

~~~
tchaffee
"Excuse me this is taking too long, please wrap up" is not the same as taking
over the conversation.

------
Blackstone4
Always finish what you have to say even if others start trying to talk over
you. If you stop it makes it look like what you have to say is not important.

Check out this YouTube video titled: How to stop people from talking over you.

[https://youtu.be/ikAfrKf5A8I](https://youtu.be/ikAfrKf5A8I)

The YouTube channel Charisma on Command have a bunch of great videos on EQ.

~~~
oneepic
I'm not really a huge fan of that channel in terms of the political content
and overall presentation of each topic. But more to the point, this advice can
really backfire -- maybe it will become a contest of who can speak the
loudest, and you'll wind up confusing and pissing everyone off.

I think I still lean towards talking to a manager as a more effective
strategy, and a culture where management lets this kind of thing happen isn't
really one I want to be a part of anyway.

~~~
Blackstone4
I feel like it’s all about finishing what you are saying calmly and
confidently without necessarily getting louder. It might mean everyone doesn’t
hear you but that’s not the point. The point is to maintain a strong social
position.

I’m not sure going to a manager will work. That’s like saying: Rather than
adapting my behaviour, I’d rather go to someone in the group who has power and
ask them to defend me...I would rather improve my social skills and navigate
the company myself. This would build my EQ and make promotions more likely.

------
tern
There's an interesting distinction to be made between Guess, Ask, and Tell
cultures.

– Guess culture: Doesn't name needs. There's an expectation that people guess
each other's needs from clues/context/intuition.

– Ask culture: Names needs as an ask.

– Tell culture: Names needs. No specific kind of response is required or
expected.

These aren't normative categories, but I think in any workplace, being
collectively aware that these different styles exist and that communication
will be improved by each person knowing their own styles and the styles of
others can improve things.

– Guessers can work to name their needs.

– Askers can learn to interpret Guessers and gently help them articulate their
needs, and likewise can gently ask questions of Tellers to determine their
asks.

– Tellers can likewise learn to interpret Guessers and gently help them
articulate their needs, and for Tellers, invite questions about their asks.

A LessWrong post, with another take on the subject:
[https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/rEBXN3x6kXgD4pLxs/tell-
cultu...](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/rEBXN3x6kXgD4pLxs/tell-culture)

------
musgrove
That is not a common thing in workplaces. Interrupting someone who's speaking
is rude, plain and simple, in any context. People that talk over each other,
to be blunt, have no manners. Are the discussions important to your work, or
just social though? If work-related, they need to be managed in a setting
where everyone has the chance to speak and be heard. I would discuss this with
your manager if it's work-related, and hopefully he/she can provide an
environment that's managed and not chaotic babble going back and forth. Also,
there are books and resources that might help you be more assertive and
confident in situations where you have to jockey for attention. There aren't
many times that happens, but in competitive business, it does happen. Everyone
is looking out for #1. I'd add that people that interject all the time are
poor listeners, which is a problem in business(and life). If all they're doing
is thinking about the next thing they're going to say to the point they can't
even hold it in, then they certainly aren't paying due attention to whoever is
speaking and the topic and giving it diligent consideration.

------
ziddoap
Anecdotally, this seems fairly common but perhaps not to the same intensity
that you've alluded.

The way I helped curb this at my workplace, which may or may not be applicable
to you, was by always back-tracking to the person who was cut off.

X starts saying something, Y cuts them off. As soon as Y is done speaking, I
ask X: "Sorry X, what were you saying?" while ignoring Y. This non-
confrontational approach seemed to work, at least in my workplace. Y quickly
began to realize that they were cutting off X and that the table was
interested in what X had to say.

Unfortunately this requires two people. If you are the one being cut off,
without someone else to step in, this is a hard problem to deal with.

~~~
williamdclt
I'm not a fan of the passive-aggressivity of this. I'd rather somebody
explicitely say "sorry Y, can you please let X finish?" and talk to Y one-to-
one if it's a recurrent issue

~~~
danbolt
Really? It strikes me as a great way of not validating the interruption to me.

------
awillen
It really helps if someone is actively managing the meeting. As a PM, I've
often done this in meetings with my engineering team. It works well because I
don't know enough to contribute much to the technical discussions, but I know
enough to know when they're veering off track or someone's dominating the
discussion. I also know which engineers aren't as prone to interrupting, and I
can make sure they're included in the discussion.

I often go with a little self-deprecation just to keep it light when things
are spiraling out of control. Something like, "Okay, time to take a pause and
dumb it down for the PM. It sounds like we've settled on the fact that the
issue is x, and the possible solutions are a, b and c. <Quiet engineer>,
you've dealt with x before - what are your thoughts?"

Smart people are prone to chime in with their thoughts, even if it involves
interrupting. In PM/design meetings, I'm guilty as hell of that, but I
recognize when whoever is running the meeting is shutting me up so others can
speak and appreciate it.

------
AareyBaba
The meeting organizer/manager needs to control the meeting.

For in-person meetings, I am constantly watching for people who raise their
hands or try to get a word in. If necessary, I cut the people monopolizing the
conversation and make sure those people get a chance to speak. For the
wallflowers at the meeting I make sure to reserve some time at the end when
people who haven't spoken get a chance to speak up.

For online meetings (Skype), the manager has to watch time and interrupt
people where necessary. It is very easy someone to go on a monologue during
Skype meetings. Again, listening for people trying to get a word in is the
managers responsibility.

Every now and then, a team gets an employee who is disruptive, constantly
interrupting the flow and going off on tangents. For those employees, the
manager has to bring the non-productive behavior to their attentive offline
and suggest changes. In extreme cases, where the behavior persists and is
ruining the team environment, that person has to leave the company.

In short, your manager is responsible. Talk to him/her.

~~~
doodliego
The problem is definitely more noticeable on skype and other types of
conference calls, because you miss all the nonverbal cues and loudmouthed
narcissists can easily take over and derail all conversations with their voice
alone.

------
glenvdb
It's a bit "kid-ish", but I've seen it work effectively at combating what
you're talking about.

Have some kind of object that a person holds while they're talking. While the
person is holding the object no one else is allowed to speak. Once they're
finished speaking the object is passed to the next person and they get their
turn (if they want).

The object can be anything, but when I've seen this strategy used it was a
rubber ball a bit smaller than a soccer ball. Something big enough that
everyone can see who is holding it, not something small enough to be hidden in
a hand.

As long as the person running the meeting introduces the strategy well, and
maintains its rules, it should work. You might get a little bit of backlash
from people that think it's demeaning, but you'll probably find that they're
the ones doing the interrupting.

~~~
awillen
This sounds ridiculous, but it's a really simple solution that really does
work.

------
drewcoo
Consider that the people who behave like that might think they're the polite
ones. They listen actively and feel deeply engaged. They see conversation as
something everyone participates in; contributes to. From the coworkers'
perspective it might seem rude for someone to apparently not listen and just
wait their turn to speak, acting as if they think what they have to say is
more important than whatever conversation is happening around them. I'm not
saying it is that way. I'm just trying to suggest one more charitable way of
looking at it.

------
tunesmith
Sometimes it's unfortunately just a personality thing. There are people that
are notorious for just needing to be the smartest person in the room, and if
they aren't checked, it's just going to be a sucky place to work.

I've had limited good luck dealing with them by asking a lot of questions,
Socrates-style. Really pinning them down. Particularly if I have an opposing
solution that answers my own questions better. This helps highlight the
difference between the people that have legitimately put in a lot of thought,
and the bloviators.

There's one person I've worked with that has me stumped though. They start
talking, and then they trail off... not quite mid-sentence, enough so that you
think they're done. And then I respond, but they immediately continue their
thought, rapid-fire like they're pouncing.

Person: "and the JWT token doesn't have that field, so..."

(2-3 seconds elapse)

Me: "Well, I think we can handl--"

Person: "SO-I-DON'T-THINK-THAT-WE-CAN (etc etc)"

It's so weird, they don't continue their thought until I start responding.
Every time it plays out like I feel like I'm the one that was interrupting,
even though I know I'm not.

~~~
philwelch
Speaking as someone who tends to go on and on and on sometimes, I will
sometimes misjudge the difference between a “I’m done talking” pause and a
“I’m thinking of how to phrase the next thought” pause and either just kind of
stop abruptly when I run out of articulate thoughts or give the false
impression that I was done talking when I wasn’t. Someone else cutting in
before I was done with a thought is usually my hint that I’ve misjudged so I
sometimes panic and try and continue my thought.

I don’t think this is a reasonable style to deal with and for my part I’m
trying to make my thoughts more concise before sharing them. Just don’t take
it personally?

------
jedberg
You need a better meeting leader. Their job should be to facilitate, which
means keeping the meeting on track with the agenda, calling out interrupters,
and making sure to circle back with the person who was interrupted to get
their input, and then blocking the others from interrupting again. And a
really good meeting leader will figure out who the soft-spoken people are and
make sure to ask them for their opinions explicitly if they seem to have one
that wasn't heard.

------
jasonpeacock
Others have suggested a talking stick, and I'll improve on that - a talking
stick + timer. Because you need to enforce both 1 person talking at time, and
time box them.

Even better, you make the timer _be_ the talking stick. Every time you hand
off the timer, you reset it for the next person. They say their piece and
reset/handoff to the next person.

I've done this for daily standups/sprint meetings where things were getting
out of control, it works well.

~~~
voodootrucker
You propose a valid technical solution. Sadly it involves infrastructure and
ceremony. I would think it preferable to grow the social skills of the team so
that these aren't required.

~~~
jasonpeacock
Sometimes it involves infrastructure and ceremony to grow the social skills of
a group (church, school, team sports, board games, etc :)

Usually the team learns from the tools and the tools naturally stop being used
when they are no longer needed.

------
motohagiography
People who ask questions tend not to be cut off as often as speakers who
don't.

If you get the floor and are still sounding out an idea in front of a group,
consider whether contributing is a valuable use of everyone's time. There are
of course people who talk forever and interrupt everyone else to make it about
them, and it's because they need personal development. It's on the senior-most
person there to interrupt them and redirect the flow of the discussion.

However, if that person going on and on is the most senior person, then
sitting there and listening and humouring them is your job.

~~~
jknoepfler
I completely disagree. If you're running a meeting, you're accountable for
keeping that meeting on the rails. If that means cutting off someone senior
and getting the meeting back on track, or asking them to stay focused, or
redirecting the conversation to let others speak, then that's what you need to
do.

Seniority is a matter of job description. My job as a senior engineer involves
driving alignment on the design and implementation of features. When I run
meetings, they have an agenda and concrete outputs. If someone derails the
meeting, I will politely but forcefully run them over. When that bubbles up
into an interpersonal conflict, as it sometimes does, I'm again, polite but
forceful.

I know what my job is, and I hold myself accountable for getting it done.

The only time I've been openly rude to someone was a Senior Principal at AWS
who thought derailing 12+ engineer meetings to rant about unrelated topics was
an acceptable use of time. The rudeness was probably uncalled for, but it got
the job done and was (surprisingly) well received.

~~~
eldavido
Correct that this is your #1 job.

But it would be even better if you could do that job, AND not make people feel
shitty / mad / disrespected in the process.

As someone who struggles with this, getting the "emotional layer" right, on
top of the base objective of doing your job, is sort of the next level of
competence you might think how to achieve.

It is very difficult to get right.

------
huevosabio
I used to work in a place where two of my colleagues (one of them my
supervisor) used to interrupt each other a lot, often degenerating to heated,
unproductive arguments.

I started using a whiteboard for all our meetings. For whatever issue we were
discussing, I would first write it down. I then proceeded to function as a
moderator. Whenever one of my colleagues wanted to interrupt, I made sure to
keep him/her at bay by pointing out that I wanted to let other colleague
finish first. Whenever one of them would drift away from the main issue, I
would point out to the topic on the whiteboard and emphasize that we needed to
keep the conversation focused on that issue.

It worked wonders.

In general, I've noticed that having a "meeting leader" that keeps the meeting
on track with the agenda and functions as a moderator really improves the
quality of the meetings and even makes them shorter.

------
grumpy8
Email discussion is great for that.. rather than being a "talk-loud" \+ "fast-
thinker" win, it usually comes down to more thoughtful discussions/decisions.

But to your point, I personally just confront the person who keeps
interrupting me: \- Hey, can you stop talking over me and let me finish my
thought? \- Dude, you're wrong, and talking over people won't make your
argument better.

That being said, I'm sometimes the one interrupting when people keep babbling
on and on, and the manager (or meeting lead) doesn't do their job. I try to do
it politely by redirecting discussion to the point or summarizing the
decision, but sometimes I need to force it and be a bit rude. I don't like
doing that, but when you see people starting to roll their eyes or look at
their phone, someone needs to step in.

Having a clear agenda with a meeting lead also help to keep the discussion on
point while giving a chance to everyone to express their thoughts. If there
are bullies, the meeting lead can shut them down.

When the manager or meeting lead is the one being a jerk, then it's obviously
tricky. Depending on the culture, you can either politely redirect discussion
to the point, summarize the decisions... or just don't attend the meeting. If
asked why, can be honest and say you keep being interrupted and might as well
work on something else if they don't want to hear your thoughts.

------
ghostbrainalpha
I had the same problem, and fixing it was one of the hardest things I've even
done.

The problem was me, and that I was boring to listen to.

I worked on making my statements shorter, funnier, getting better at analogies
so people could follow along with a picture in their heads (especially when
speaking to non technical people about technical issues), and by promising
something interesting in the first sentence and then not giving that info
until the end of my statement.

I don't use all those techniques all the time, but every time I take over a
big group conversation I will be conscientiously thinking about doing one of
them. It's been 5-6 years of effort and I went from extremely boring to now
being consistently asked to give presentations because people think my
speaking is entertaining.

I also always played devils advocate, and presented the best case from both
sides of an argument whenever a big decision was being discussed. I stopped
doing that completely and don't share my inner debates. Everyone has their own
and they don't need to be informed by yours.

People just want new interesting information + plans for action with strong
reasoning briefly summarized.

If all your statements are like the following, you will find people cutting
you off less and less...

"I found X that you will never believe! And after spending all day analyzing
this new information I recommend we quickly adopt Y before disaster happens.
Any questions?"

------
oblib
I'll offer the thing you need to learn is to not give a shit. It helps to
remind yourself your getting paid the same no matter what.

Beyond that, if you've got something important to point out that others are
missing then you can jump in with a dominant attitude and make the point
quickly and then sit back and fade away and let the conversation go where it
will.

Timing is important but starting with something like "I think we need to
consider..." or "you're missing something important here" loud enough to be
heard can draw the focus to you quickly.

Once you've made your point stop talking. It will either be ignored,
dismissed, or discussed. If they ask you to expand give them all you got but
don't get frustrated if it gets ignored or dismissed. Bring it up again in a
private conversation later with whomever really needs to know and give them
time to let it sink in.

If someone cuts you off you can always pop back in by starting with something
like "We still need to consider..."

Back to not giving a shit. You do your best work no matter what. That's what
you get paid for, but you do the work the way they want it done and don't take
it personal if they ignore you when you know have a better way. That really
doesn't have to matter to you at all.

~~~
ridaj
This reminds me of a "rule" I've heard from TV series writers. They operate
with a dozen people locked up in a large writing room for the whole day. Their
job is literally to "say one thing in the morning, and one thing in the
afternoon". That's it. They don't have to say any more than that, but they
better damn make sure that when they open their mouth, what they're going to
say is worth the other folks' time to hear. They can always say more, but
people aren't paid by the number of words they say in meetings, and in fact
speaking too much can really burn someone with the other writers if they keep
hogging the floor to say things that aren't the most insightful in the world.

I feel that's a useful test to use as well before talking in a meeting: is
what I'm about to say something that really needs to be said here and now?

------
1penny42cents
Someone who is interrupted will almost never listen to the interrupt. Instead,
they maintain whatever they were going to say "in cache" and replay it once
the interrupt is over. I've found this to be universal.

So I've learned to stop interrupting people. They're only going to listen to
what I say once they're done saying what they need to. Without at least one
side listening to the other, the conversation will go no where.

From there, the problem is when one person won't give others a chance to
speak. On my team, we raise a hand to let the person speaking know that
someone wants to get a word in. This works very well in my experience.

------
dmlorenzetti
I used to have a big problem with this. My family culture values slow, serial
communication, so "cooperative overlapping" of the sort practiced at my
workplace came across to me as rudeness. That meant my frustration at not
being heard was amplified by negative connotations about why I was getting
steamrollered during meetings.

One thing that helped me was to understand the motivations of those involved.
It's easy to think somebody is rude, or showing off, but fortunately I started
from a place of deep respect for the capabilities of everyone in my group, and
eventually a great affection for them. I saw that we had a few individuals
who, if they weren't interrupting, it meant they weren't interested. After I
realized this, I started to prize the guy practically jumping out of his chair
to take over what I was saying, because it meant he was engaged and excited by
it.

Nevertheless, I did often think about the effect on people who might be less
self-confident than me, or quieter (we had a lot of students passing through
in those days). In the end, if I needed to be heard, I could raise my own
voice just as effectively as anybody else in the group -- but not everybody
can do that.

It came to a head one group meeting, when a foreign researcher came to present
some results. His presentation effectively ended after a few slides, because
it got derailed by the back-and-forth of the "audience". I was really steaming
and embarrassed.

He agreed to come back the following week, so I sent round an e-mail saying we
had all better be on good behavior. I told the group I would bring three
notebooks -- one green, one yellow, and one red. The meeting would start with
the green one on top of the stack, and if I got annoyed, I would move the
yellow one to the top. If the red one came to the top, I would -- well, I
don't remember what I threatened, but it couldn't have been very scary, since
I had no power.

In the event, the green notebook stayed on top. Not only was the group on
strictly respectful behavior for the presenter, but I think it got better
generally for a long time afterwards. I think seeing how that behavior
affected an outsider gave everybody a little pause, and made us see ourselves
better. But again, I think the details of this anecdote show what a great
group of people these were. As a junior team member, I felt able to express
and act on my disappointment, and everybody listened and tried to accommodate
me.

------
vorpalhex
There are two potentials here.

One potential is if it's just one or two people being cut off constantly - if
so, they might need to practice being engaging speakers and speaking more
concisely. Everybody has the one coworker who takes 10 minutes to get to a 30
second point. (Cutting people off is still rude, the above isn't an excuse,
it's an explanation.)

The alternative is that everyone is fighting to get out their idea instead of
cooperating to lay out all ideas. If you need to, go buy a damn ruler, label
it the talking stick, and whoever holds it gets to talk. Preferably before
getting to that point, have a conversation with your peers that the
deliberative process is a cooperative one - it's not about winning and losing,
it's about everyone putting out their possible solutions and working together
to build the right one.

~~~
poiuyt098
The first point here is what came to mind. I try not to cut people off, but
some may be droning on, or repeating or slowly pacing around a point even
though my brain is 5 steps ahead already. I get bored and impatient and want
to move on.

Maybe ask a fast thinker about your style, or try recording yourself and
listen back to see if you can be more concise or lively.

------
atoav
I tend to interrupt people only when they ramble on about something forever or
when they make their point in a really, _really_ roundabout fashion.

You know the type, that talks for 10 minutes and you still have no clue what
the point is or where it will lead to.

The thing is: there are many reasons why people interrupt other people and
they might be completely different.

In my case you probably would in the best case react with something like:
“Wait, let me summarize my point” and then proceed to do precisely that.

Some people might shut you down, some might get excited by the thoughts your
contribution envokes in then. Some might just hate it that they are not in the
spotlight.

If you know the reason, you know how to react to it.

------
xs83
I find it is much more frequent when you are mixing technical and non
technical people in meetings. One such example is when you have a non-
technical person taking the scenic route through a conversation about a
process, by the time they have uttered their third word most of the technical
people already know the rest of the sentence, the next lot of objections, the
following (wrong) solutions that will be presented and the final solution that
was decided on when the problem was analysed when it first came to light.

------
the_watcher
Tell people that you're experiencing it. If you trust someone who doesn't seem
to have as much trouble, confide in that person first, but continue to tell
people privately when you experience it. In my experience, most people will
take it seriously, and some will start to notice and do things like point out
that you were cut off, or bring the conversation back around to you.

If you get pushback when doing this, I'm sorry you're experiencing that. My
recommendation would be to find a new job, unfortunately.

------
scottbartell
In my experience it is common. Here are some suggestions:

1\. Ask a person who has cut you off in a recent conversation for a 1 on 1
conversation. Tell them about the recent conversation and what happened from
your perspective. Ask them for advice on what you can do to have your voice
heard more.

2\. Ask a third party who is typically in those conversations that you get cut
off in (but isn’t the one who cuts you off) for a 1 on 1 conversation. Explain
to them what is happening and ask them for their advice. — not only will you
get some advice but they might change their behavior to discourage others from
cutting you off

3\. Next time you get cut off remember what you just said, the details of how
you said it, and the topic at hand and write it down. After you do that a few
times take a look at the data you gathered and see if you can find any
noticeable patterns — may you were getting off topic or maybe you had a snarky
tone, etc.

4\. Determine what your need is and explore other ways to have it met. If your
need is to feel as if your opinions are heard, consider that in person
technical conversations are just one way to meet that need. Another way might
be a written proposal or Slack conversation. Or maybe you could run a more
structured meeting that is run in a way that protects against people getting
cut off (e.g. time assigned specifically for generating several different
options)

------
cosmotic
It might help to understand why people are cutting you off. Some situations
where I have cut people off (maybe in the wrong; it's a judgement call): *
It's clear everyone understands what's being said and explaining further is
wasting time * It's clear what's being said is based on a misunderstanding or
is not relevant * I can tell where it's going and have already dealt with what
will eventually be concluded so the whole conversation can be cut off
completely * I have input into the topic that it appears no one realizes yet
and might drastically change the direction of the conversation * It's clear
that we've gone on a tangent and it's time to get back on track * Someone is
telling a personal story for effect and it's not adding business value or
social value to the discussion * Someone is grandstanding for no apparent
reason other then self indulgence

As for solutions: * Establish a protocol for raising attention that someone
has input before the speaker is done; like raising your hand * Use a talking
stick

Non-solutions: * Calling someone out for interrupting you might foster
hostility. Instead, during a retrospective or something similar, raise a
concern that generically people are having a hard time completing their
thoughts because they keep getting cut off.

------
newnewpdro
Something I've noticed is there's a strong correlation between people
bulldozing in meetings/conversations at the office and being recently/overly
caffeinated.

I haven't tried this myself, but it might help to question the person doing it
as being potentially overcaffeinated in the moment. Maybe it can be done
playfully, without being combative. Something like "Man, how much coffee did
you drink today? You're out of control."

Also, it's kind of an arms race if this is what's going on. What you can do is
caffeinate yourself and fight fire with fire, if you don't mind a caffeine
dependence.

Caffeine is like a mild form of cocaine. It similarly tends to make people
arrogant, overconfident, loud, impatient, obnoxious, talkative, and over
eager.

At my last office position, which was in SF, I absolutely hated most of the
social interactions because people were abusing caffeine like a pile of
junkies. The lunchroom had a dedicated corner full of coffee making
apparatuses and scales, it was completely ridiculous. There was enough
equipment for half a dozen people to freshly gravity drip coffee
simultaneously into their cups.

I basically don't use caffeine at all, and it was simply impossible to
tolerate communicating with most of the employees in any serious topic. They
would just go a million miles an hour and bulldoze right over my entirely
sober state. Rather than try match their energy level and agressiveness I'd
just walk away and engage virtually on IRC/slack/github instead.

SF in general strikes me as a city full of addicts. In the office people were
largely high on caffeine, and outside the office they would get drinks nearly
every day after work. It's definitely not for everybody, and I had a better
experience in this regard working in Silicon Valley (Mountain View).

------
wccrawford
I've always disliked getting interrupted, and I used to spend a lot of energy
trying to get my opinion into the conversion during meetings.

Lately, I've been doing the opposite. If I have a thought, I wait until the
end up what's being said. If they barrel into another topic without waiting,
I'll simply start talking and tell them my thoughts on the last topic that
they so hastily abandoned.

Occasionally I'll forget what I was going to say because there was so much
going on. In those instances, I simply don't worry about it. No matter how
important it was, it'll either come up later or we'll deal with it eventually
somehow.

That all said, there's one thing I will interrupt. When a person says the same
thing repeatedly, even in different ways, I feel compelled to stop them and
keep the conversation moving. Anyone that doesn't understand can ask for
clarification. There's no need to repeat things.

------
SkyMarshal
First, try reframing everything you have to say as a question. People like
ones you describe tend to be more responsive to questions, it plays to their
ego.

So if someone makes a loud assertion you know is wrong, ask a series of
leading questions like a trial lawyer would that takes them down the path of
realizing it's wrong (or at least takes everyone else listening down that
path).

Second, check out the book _The Gentle Art of Verbal Self Defense_ [1]. It may
help.

Third, are you a woman perchance? This is an especially common problem for
women. If so, find a company with a better culture. They're out there, and not
worth your energy to try and change this one.

[1]:[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/133203.The_Gentle_Art_of...](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/133203.The_Gentle_Art_of_Verbal_Self_Defense)

~~~
hinkley
Yes, but I can think of a few people who fit this bill who are incapable of
hearing a question as a critique. They will happily answer the question and
not change course in the slightest.

~~~
SkyMarshal
Yes, but 1) it usually takes more than one question, rather a series of
questions calling attention to the flaw/s, and 2) even if talker doesn't
change course it's likely others in the group will see what's going on and
realize OP is actually the one that knows stuff, changing the group dynamic.

------
kamilszybalski
Another approach you might try is to ask a coworker to step in and ask the
interrupter to let you, or someone else, finish speaking. I find I do this
myself primarily because I don’t believe people who aren’t comfortable being
confrontational don’t deserve an equal chance to speak and be heard.

------
taurath
The cut off being part of the culture can come from a lot of factors, but the
ones I've seen are:

1\. Abject rudeness or lack of a culture that values social graces (usually
the "hacker"/"power player" mentality). Usually can't be solved except from
the top, but not as common.

2\. Time pressure. The rudest meetings in my current workplace happen when the
meeting is ill-formatted (like a design review meeting that has nothing posted
beforehand that only lasts 1 hour and is expected to get a stamp at the end).
The time pressure for some people to get their points or feedback across
results in a total loss of empathy.

3\. Lack of any moderation or management. If nobody is in control of any
meeting, it leaves it to the loudest voices, who sometimes won't give space
for others to talk.

------
lacampbell
You say to the other person, loudly and firmly "hang on X, I haven't finished"
then you carry on until you're done.

There's no magic to it, no reliance on a corporate directive, or gimmick like
a talking stick or hacky sack. You just directly address the other persons
behaviour.

~~~
voodootrucker
While I upvoted your comment for it's directness, and agree that it can work
for infrequent instances, I've seen whole cultures where everyone is
interrupting each other. It's harder to apply when things get truly bad.

Incidentally, that was in the bay, and I've had better experiences elsewhere -
purely anecdotal.

~~~
lacampbell
It's always worked well for me - in the work place at least.

------
hnruss
As a show of respect and professionalism, I do my best to listen intently and
to not interrupt my coworkers. If I am interrupted, I will stop and listen--
provided that the interruption served a purpose.

If someone repeatedly interrupts me without need in a conversation, then I
will get annoyed with them, consciously ignore their interruptions and finish
my thoughts, even if they keep talking. This usually sounds unintelligible to
everyone involved. Once they are done trying to talk over me, I'll ask them a
question relating to something I just said, which makes two points: 1. _Now_
it's their turn to talk, and 2. They don't know what I just said because they
were talking when it was not their turn to do so.

------
funkaster
I've been working in the Bay Area for 8 years now, it's not the area, it's
your specific workplace. It would happen anywhere in the world. I would assume
your leads (EM/PM) are not doing their job correctly. There has to be someone
helping moderate the discussion and making sure you're getting somewhere
relevant.

If it's a problem, raise it and propose a change in the meeting process. Ask
for someone (or volunteer) that keeps track of the meeting agenda and makes
people accountable.

IMO adding process that helps structure conversation in places where it's not
happening naturally helps tremendously. There's some friction initially, but
if implemented correctly, benefits appear really early on.

------
danieltillett
I am prone to cutting off slow thinkers. The type that you know exactly what
they are going to say for the next minute - yep I got that so can we move on
to your next point. It is a bad habit and I try to control it, but sometimes I
slip up.

~~~
sergiotapia
What do you do with all the time you save interrupting the slow thinkers?

~~~
danieltillett
I spend it on HN.

------
f_50C137y
One way that has worked well for me is saying politely, 'please let me
finish'. And then continuing with my contribution to the conversation.

This takes some amount of guts, but I am yet to experience anyone not allowing
me to finish my point.

~~~
weavie
Also body language can help. Put your hand up with your palm facing the
interrupter to physically block the interruption..

------
alkonaut
Change the format of the meeting I'd say. If a "meeting" is a free-for-all
discussion it's going to simply be the loudest or most enthusiastic person
that's gettting heard. So don't have free-for-all discussions. Have moderated
meetings go around the table asking everyone for input.

In "brainstorming" or problem solving meetings, instead of everyone going
silent and then the loudest guy getting an idea, try briefly breaking up the
meeting from say 6 people into 3 groups of 2. Discuss for 2 minutes and then
present the conclusions to the whole group.

------
sergiotapia
A very easy, low friction way to correct this behavior is to steer the
conversation to someone who has been interrupted.

Let the interrupter do his thing, then go "Alright John Doe, you were saying X
Y Z?" He'll start his train of thought again, and if someone tries to
interrupt, cut them off and say "Hold on let John Doe finish answering my
question". You come out looking professional to interrupters, the interrupted
likes you more, _and_ you start to change the behavior that annoys you,
without you being the bad guy. win-win-win

------
scotty79
Stop trying to talk. Just listen. At some point they'll encounter a problem
that they don't have a solution for. Then speak your mind (of course if you
have a good idea or something that might spark a good idea in others). After
just a few lucky instances of that you'll be considered a sage.

And what if they are chosing wrong solution? If you are sure and have a moment
of silence, usually after every noisy person understood the solution and is
content with it, present one specific bulletproof counterexample. Might earn
you deep thinker badge and love-hate relationship with the rest of the team.

And if they pick wrong solution anyways or you don't have an opportunity to
pitch in. Relax. Not your circus, not your monkeys. It might come out ok in
the end. Or you might still get to be a hero during recovery from this effup.
And your team might get more billable hours which is good for you and your
team. Not so good for your employer but that's the failure of development
process he set up. You are not responsible to plug holes in the process.

This attitude will make you more relaxed and happier and have better
relationship with the rest of the team. Your output will improve and you'll
have more chances to infect noisy people with your ideas via 1 on 1
watercooler conversations and in the meetings just watch how they do the hard
part of promoting your idea for you. Your employer might even get benefit from
you not trying your hardest to represent him in the meetings.

------
mixmastamyk
Try a "hacky sack." Only the person who has it may speak. If interruptions
continue, introduce an airhorn, and hit it when they happen. ;)

There should also probably be a time limit as well.

~~~
riffic
An airhorn should only be used outdoors. These can output 120 decibels, enough
to cause pain and temporary hearing impairment.

~~~
mixmastamyk
Was thinking of the small can type, not one for a train. But yeah, not too
loud.

~~~
riffic
Yes, portable airhorns produce damaging levels of sound output. Do not use
indoors!

------
gorbachev
[https://www.askamanager.org/2014/03/my-coworker-wont-stop-
in...](https://www.askamanager.org/2014/03/my-coworker-wont-stop-interrupting-
me-while-i-train-her-going-by-a-middle-name-and-more.html)

I have coworkers who constantly talk over each other in meetings. Bringing
this up as a problem in weekly team meetings, one-on-ones with manager (she's
one of them) and any other review meetings has been somewhat successful.

------
thinkersilver
This may not be useful but have you tried to ask why you want to be heard.
It's worth exploring your motives. Is it to make yourself feel more valued in
the team or is it to provide value to the team. Figuring this out may allow
you to find a way to change how your team members view you ( if it's needing
validation from the team) or if it's the second, which I suspect it is, you
may find a way to influence decisions _without_ having to talk over other
people.

Team discussions are a competition of views and attention for space to express
them and can be chaotic. Exploring

1\. Verbal strategies - some have pointed out couple in the thread

2\. Preparation of what you want to say - and framing the negatives strongly
and the positives of your argument confidently

3\. Seeding - Doing the groundwork and preparation before the discussion
itself. Talking to your team members about your ideas and gauging they're
reactions - in a way reading the room, and planting your idea so it's not out
of the blue at the discussion

There's more but it's down to you. It's probably what you don't want to hear.
You'll have to improve the way you communicate within discussions or learn how
to influence the leaders and decision makes of the group outside the chaotic
conversations.

I'm like you in a way but you've got to choose your battles.

------
ignoramous
In a professional setting, nothing works better than setting expectations
upfront.

For instance, over a meeting invite, letting everyone know the agenda and the
rules of engagement would go a long way in setting the expectations
beforehand. You might even set rules of engagement generally enough for all
meetings instead of just yours... of course, then, expect to work on the
feedback from all quarters, but that's manageable. It might also stand to
surprise you the number of people that might be supportive of such a thing
because it makes future meetings productive and approachable for them.

That said, some teams do have dynamics where a few powerful personalities by
the virtue of their position in the team or their closeness to the management
drain out all other voices in the room, as it were. This is a different ball-
game since it involves power struggle which you'd eventually lose. A couple of
ways I know to out manuver is to:

1\. Show up in the meeting prepared with facts beforehand.

2\. Do a post-meeting commentary on the meeting notes or talking points with a
view to encourage further discussion, over email or wikis or docs.

Regardless, your comments may be ignored. Don't take it too hard, but know
that you were heard loud and clear, fwiw. Rest of your team most certainly
isn't turning a blind-eye.

------
dsr_
104 comments and nobody has mentioned that this is an extremely common problem
for women.

------
mattoxic
I say in a calm even voice... "Please Moira, I just need to finish this point"

Sometimes I say in the same voice... Hold on a tick Moira, I think Francis is
trying to make a point.

Moira in our organisation is a meetings pest, she speaks without listening and
speaks often.

Just be polite, don't let the conversation move on, and advocate for others
who are spoken over. "I didn't hear Josh, Josh can you please repeat that"

------
rb808
If this happens a few times in a row, I tune out, start browsing something on
your phone. When everyone starts doing this they get the message.

------
solipsism
Direct and polite. I'm in awe that there is so much toxic advice in this
thread. All these suggestions about just continuing talking over the other
person, like some kind of competition, have no place in the workplace. It's
not that hard...

Please let me finish.

Excuse me, I wasn't done with my point.

Jen, were you trying to say something?

I'll address that as soon as I'm done with what I was saying.

Hold on, let me just finish what I was saying.

------
patrickdavey
This is not answering your question, but, I once did an Outward Bound course
(basically personal development in the outdoors). Anyway, there was this
interesting scene they did where they made us line up depending on how much we
agreed/disagreed on a particular topic. They then made us debate with our
opposites. That is, the most agreeing and most disagreeing people had to
debate.

I was one of the people who "most disagreed" and my "opponent" got to go
first. I had to listen to her for 3 minutes or so. At the end of her speaking
time, I assumed that I would get to go BUT _I had to repeat what she'd been
saying_.

It was an incredibly enlightening moment, it pointed out very clearly that
really, most of the time I wasn't listening to what she was saying, I was
trying to work out how to rebut what she'd said.

I also hate it when people talk over me, I do wonder how well they're
listening or if they're just trying to get their point across.

I'll follow this thread, thanks for asking the question.

------
jstewartmobile
People in this biz make all kinds of (bogus) excuses along the lines of " _I
continue to fail at basic life skills X, Y, and Z, BUT! I 'm still super-
smart!_"

I wouldn't buy that. Someone fumbling the ball on basic politeness is probably
fumbling many many others that you don't even know about.

And you have an office full of them! If only I knew where you worked...

------
joshfraser
Don't make a big deal out of it or act upset, but every single time you get
cut off say "Hang on. Let me finish."

------
29athrowaway
Sounds like...

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expressions_of_dominance](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expressions_of_dominance)

Solution: moderation. When a person is interrupted, the moderator interjects
and asks the interrupted person to finish the idea.

If the interruptions persist, adjourn the meeting.

------
m0d0nne11
The rules of effective, efficient discussion are universal; if they're ignored
in various settings I'll consider offering a cash wager that those are rarely
settings (engineering, surgery, etc) in which careful thought and attention to
detail are high priorities.

Participants who respect each other observe The Cocktail Party Protocol, which
is so obvious it's enshrined in silicon: when you sense that the shared medium
is available, you may begin transmission. If you discover that somebody else
has also done so, back off for a short randomly variable interval and then try
again. Multiple simultaneous transmissions are well understood to be a
degenerate case to be avoided, with participants who fail to follow protocol
regarded as defective and, in at least one case I've seen, tagged with error
code BABBLING_TRANSMITTER.

SEE ALSO: CSMA/CD

------
dondawest
Dude I relate to you 100%, and the only solution I’ve found is to _become
comfortable interrupting people right back_ when they interrupt you, and
sometimes before.

Interruption is a weird thing that is both cultural and personal. I spent a
lot of time overseas conversing with people in languages other than English,
and with people who spoke English as a second language. During those years I
became completely comfortable never being interrupted and never interrupting.

Then I came back to America and at first found the “interrupting culture” to
be UNBELIEVABLY rude. It really really rankled me for multiple months. I
didn’t interrupt people so why the hell were they interrupting me??

... _and then I became comfortable interrupting people again_. Now things are
fine. I’m not saying this is the perfect solution to your problem, but it’s
definitely ONE solution.

------
mcguire
Pro tip from the gang at IBM: He who talks loudest is in charge.

------
dfsegoat
I've found that if you talk less, people will listen more when you do talk -
provided you don't ramble.

Focus on being concise and formulating your thoughts while everyone else is
hashing things out - then jump in with your clearly articulated thoughts at
the end.

A lot of the time it seems people get cut off because they ramble.

------
lhorie
When the next discussion starts, offer to document the arguments, or designate
someone to. Create a Google doc that everyone can edit and write a quick blurb
stating the goal of the discussion.

Now that there's an official record of the discussion in written, you can take
your time writing well-thought-out responses. The format discourages heated
circular rebuttals, since it then becomes obvious when an argument is a thinly
disguised paraphrasing of a previous one, and people can get a chance to sleep
on an idea and change their minds. The format also lets the team flesh out
several topics in parallel rather than disrupting each topic half way through
with tangents.

Once people are more accustomed to the idea of writing down their arguments,
you can formalize the process into a Request-for-Comment (RFC) process.

------
vfc1
Don't be naive into thinking that it's going to get any better, or that
talking about it to someone will help in anything - it usually makes things
worse that's the reality of it.

One simple way to reduce the frustration and make it more bearable for you is
to send your point across by email to everyone involved later on that day, it
works for me.

How bad is it? Maybe at your workplace is especially bad, if that is the case
and it's bothering you, it's probably a good time to leave.

Some people think they know it all, can't shut up and are literally incapable
of listening to others. Some people just think while they talk, feel the need
to fill the blanks of conversations constantly, etc.

As long as you give your input or send your point across in whatever form, in
person or by email at least you feel better for sure.

------
nurettin
Yes, this is how work is. And it is very important for you to continue being
part of the conversation. Not only for your own sake, but for everyone's sake.

Unfortunately, we can't all speak at the same time. When I'm interrupted, if
I'm focused enough to continue and the interruption doesn't bring up an
obvious error, I apologize, take back the mic and continue my monologue.

If I'm not focused enough that I lose my train of thought as I was
interrupted, I take notes and go back to it at a later point in the
conversation. It is very important that you are persistent.

One thing that helps me focus is to have my notes in front of me before the
conversation begins, so I can continue making my points or interrupt someone
else with one of my points.

------
makmanalp
"Can I finish before you cut in?" directed at the interrupter seems to work
for me - it's a reasonable request, it explicitly calls out what the other
person is doing in a way they won't / can't reasonably get defensive about,
and if they keep talking over you it telegraphs to other people that they're
being a jerk.

It's annoying and probably unfair to have to do this of course, and honestly
takes more practice than I thought it would to recognize this situation is
happening and remember to deploy it.

More generally, this is now something I try to pay attention to while
interviewing at companies. I don't need to be in a struggle every time I have
a conversation or make a point.

------
lostmymind66
The person running the meeting should be moderating it as well, which would
solve these issues.

------
Diederich
Sometimes I'll raise my hand every time I get cut off. You have to read the
room though.

~~~
pipingdog
If you are an interrupter, learn to raise your hand. If you get interrupted,
immediately raise your hand. If you notice someone try to say something and
get clobbered, raise your hand, then cede to them. If you see a hand go up,
think about how to tie off your point, then call on someone with a hand up.

------
cpr
Hah, back in the late 70's at the MIT AI/LCS/EE departments, we just called
that normal conversation. To the loudmouths the spoils. ;-)

Took me years to painfully wean myself from the habit when talking with my
wife, who objected strongly (as she should).

------
logari
There are two types of interruptors: the intelligent and the stupid.

The intelligent ones have a lot to say, and worry they forget, so they want to
edge in a few of that "block" chain before it's lost.

The stupid ones are simply rude and don't care about your feelings.

Step1: identify from other clues, what type you are dealing with.

Step2: if intelligent, let them finish their speech. Then ask: "are you
finished?" Then ask for uninterrupted talk time. You can be humorous about it.
For instance: "if the urge to cut me off hits you, take notes while I am
speaking." If they took notes, ask them to rephrase what you just told them.

If the stupid type, you can cut them off, too. It is okay to be fair.

------
halfjoking
It's not worth wasting energy. Why care if they all agree to do "X, Y and Z"
bad ideas unless you have a bunch of equity in the company?

If you're a programmer actually building the thing - I say adapt whatever they
tell you to do so it makes more sense. I often change things to make it more
palatable, then when they ask me why it doesn't work exactly as originally
designed I explain how I figured out the original version was a bad idea while
working on it.

They hired me because I know my field and what works best. If they can't trust
me to implement things how I see fit, then why should I trust them to make
good leadership decisions?

------
led8
Hello !

Try Dissensium
([https://dissensium.herokuapp.com/](https://dissensium.herokuapp.com/)), a
smooth project that I create for fun.

Why ? Because I'm drive about by the same problem in my recent work.

So, Dissensium allows you to create anonymous online meeting about
conversations or problems with your team mates. Each person can propose a
solution and each person can vote on each. The facts show us that anonymity
break the rules of human domination and especially that everyboby can have a
nice idea. Then, allow to each participant to vote on each solution is better
constructive.

So, you can try something like this. . .

------
havana59er
Honestly I hoped this would be a better discussion. Judging from some of the
comments I would say that it is a systemic problem of people just want to
stream their thoughts and ideas. You'll basically need to develop your own kit
of tactics to get your points across, practice them and refine them.

What are some tactics you're currently using? Do you wait for silence and jump
back to a prior point in the conversation? Do you use phrases like "I'm not on
board because of X", thus forcing the conversation to revolve around your
dissent? Which ones seem to work better than others?

------
thirdsun
Have you considered participating in writing? Collect your thoughts and put
them into a few paragraphs and bullet points for others to read and consider
whenever they have time for it.

I like this approach in general - while being cut off isn't that much of a
concern to me, not forgetting half of the points I was trying to make and
presenting them in the most understandable way is. Writing helps a lot with
these goals.

Whenever I have more substantial and extensive thoughts and ideas to bring up
I'd post a message on a relevant Basecamp project/team and invite everyone to
discuss it.

------
ioseph
One strategy I've seen and used effectively is speaking slowly and quietly,
people will be forced to listen carefully to what you are saying and it will
bring the energy of the conversation down a notch.

------
JustSomeNobody
I believe some people just do this to compensate. They’re not the best at what
they do but they’re the loudest so they use that.

How I combat it is email and networking with the team. After a meeting where I
couldn’t get a word in, ill follow up with an email laying out the pros and
cons of what was talked about as well as the pros and cons of my own ideas.
I’ll then have one on ones with other team members to see if there’s any buy
in. If not I drop it. If so, I find that my team members will start giving the
loud guy pushback on his ideas.

------
jrowley
I'm sorry you're experiencing that. I just wanted to push back and say that I
don't think it is necessarily a regional thing, unique or more prevalent to
the bay area necessarily.

------
hellfrick
Just keep chuntering on as if you can't hear the other person talking and what
you are saying is crucial for all participants. NOTE: this gets fun when > 1
person has this approach.

------
robodan
I think Madeleine Albright's comments on this are interesting in general, but
particularly relevant to how culture conditions women.
[https://www.thecut.com/2015/06/madeleine-albright-best-
advic...](https://www.thecut.com/2015/06/madeleine-albright-best-advice.html)
"But you have to interrupt. At a certain stage you realize that it doesn’t
matter what they call you. You have to overcome your personal qualms."

------
RocketSyntax
Just say "woah, woah, woah... let me finish this my point"

~~~
asfarley
This is definitely the easiest for me to use, and to take without offence.

------
epynonymous
regarding your remark about this perhaps having something to do with the bay
area, the bay area brings some of the most experienced and skillful if not
smartest people in the industry (from all over the world), i dont doubt that
this plays a factor. that's not to say that experienced/smart/skillful people
are purposely rude, i think it has a little to do with ego, showing yourself
up during meetings, but sometimes it's just passionate people going off on
rants.

i can totally understand your frustrations and this seems to be affecting you
personally, but i think you should do some root cause analysis before you jump
to conclusions, jumping to conclusions also burns a lot of mental energy.
instead, just go have a conversation in private about what you think, not
about being interrupted, but about your technical ideas, if he/she's really an
asshole and just wants to drown you out, you should be able to tell from a
private conversation, my guess is that the person gains more respect for you.
if you have trouble articulating your thoughts in real time, write it down,
send an email. dont guess what's at play here, find out the truth. if the
people suck, switch environments, there are plenty of great companies out
there.

------
dotmanish
You can flip the thing around by championing the 6 Thinking Hats method to
drive decision meetings: [https://www.amazon.com/Six-Thinking-Hats-Edward-
Bono/dp/0241...](https://www.amazon.com/Six-Thinking-Hats-Edward-
Bono/dp/0241257530/)

There are numerous examples cited in the book and around the web on how this
streamlines discussions (and also gives everyone a chance to chip in from
different angles).

------
corodra
A. When other people get cut off, tell the interrupter "don't cut them off.
You, go ahead and finish what you were saying."

Be the person who does this. That way when...

B. Tell them "I am speaking, do not cut me off."

You then don't look like an asshole. You have an ethical principle you stand
by for yourself and for others. You'll find very few people will attempt to
you off.

It's what I started doing. Has worked pretty well in the past 6 or so years.
It's better than being a victim.

------
asfarley
I have this tendency to vocalize my prediction of the speaker's next words;
this is sometimes interpreted as an interruption.

When I do this, I'm not intending to stop the speaker, or even to speak over
them; the goal is to demonstrate that my understanding is synchronized with
what they're saying. It's a tool to improve communication, not to disrupt it.

I sometimes get the impression that 50% of people do this naturally, and 50%
hate it and interpret it as interruption.

------
holografix
As uncomfortable as it may seem at first be FIRM. A louder-than-you were-just-
speaking next few words or a simple “hang on John, I wasn’t finished.” Can
quite quickly change how people perceive you and what you re willing to
tolerate.

I can relate because I was taught to respect people and wait for them to
finish what they were saying but in some environments they’ll just talk
continuously as a tactic to prevent you from saying your opinion and
dominating the discussion.

------
PopeDotNinja
This sounds like a good question for your manager. There's a reasonable chance
you're not the only one who feels this way, and speaking up may help move the
needle on Captain Cutoff interjecting their thoughts mid-someone-else's
sentence.

What ever you do, don't lose your cool. You will not help yourself by saying
"hey jackass, I was speaking, so shut your pie hole (mouth)." [1]

[1] Source: Used to lose my cool. It did not help. But therapy did :)

------
wpietri
Do you have team retrospectives? If so, I would raise this issue neutrally in
terms of cultural norms. "At my previous jobs, X. Here, I observe Y. Do others
notice this? How do you feel about it? How should I adapt?"

For what it's worth, I don't think this is generally a Bay Area norm. Most of
the teams I've worked on have been pretty patient, respectful communicators.
But it is definitely a norm in some places.

------
johnwheeler
This is so easy. Point your finger at the person, look them in the eye, and
say assertively, “Don’t interrupt me”, and keep talking without skipping a
beat.

------
tmaly
I use to talk over people, and sometimes I still do. But I try to stop myself
and become a better listener. I find the conversation becomes better.

I was listening to this episode on the Knowledge project
[https://fs.blog/celeste-headlee/](https://fs.blog/celeste-headlee/) not too
long ago, and it got me to really stop and think about how I converse.

------
hprotagonist
It’s unlikely to ever happen, but sometimes i dream about a working world
where everyone had read and practiced using _Robert’s Rules of Order_

~~~
eplanit
It can -- careers in areas such as governance, oversight, or committee work
would likely provide that kind of atmosphere.

------
stillworks
I haven't ever been in a team/company personally who follow this, but seems
like a very effective way [https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/jeff-bezos-knows-
how-to-ru...](https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/jeff-bezos-knows-how-to-run-a-
meeting-here-are-his-three-simple-rules.html)

I wonder why a big SV company is not following this already ?

------
phtrivier
We had to discipline ourselves in our team, and it had great results. (We made
it slighly funnier by having an actual "speech stuffed octopus" to hand to the
only person allowed to speak.)

Meetings are surprisingly more pleasant now.

In case your teamates are self-help fans, you might casually drop in as many
conversations as possible that "Seek to understand, before being understood"
is Covey's habit n°5 ;)

Good luck !

------
happyrock
It works for me to just raise my voice a little and say "wait" or "hang on,
let me finish" if someone interrupts me. I also find it rude and irritating
and it should be treated as such, but it's also often not intentional and just
a result of conversational dynamics getting out of control. The goal should be
to rein it in and keep the conversation going.

------
hawski
It's on person organizing the meeting to moderate it. You can either talk with
every person and try to change their ways, good luck with that. Or have more
structure in meetings and that's what being manager is supposed to be about. I
always roll my eyes, when there even is some structure in a meeting, but the
organizing party does not really moderate the discussion.

------
segmondy
Raise it with your manager, if it's peer's discussion then someone should
moderate. When my team has meetings, I moderate. I make sure those remote get
to speak first, and then I make sure no one is speaking for too long and call
other's by name to add their ideas. If someone interrupts, I cut them off and
tell the person that was speaking to continue.

~~~
solipsism
Is there no sense of personal accountability at your company? Why can't your
workers be trusted to take care of simple, everyday social problems like this?

I don't like interrupters any more than the next person, but i consider myself
an adult and want to work with adults -- I can't imagine needing a babysitter
like this.

~~~
hawski
I would say it is all too common in most social situations. It's normal that
people get overexcited. People should behave, but often do not. What one is
supposed to do when it happens? Find a new job?

Do you also have opinion, that generally working with adults one does not need
a manager or a superior? Managers manage people, they should manage meetings.

------
StopHammoTime
I would suggest talking to your manager, leader, iteration manager, etc., and
raising the impact that this kind of conversation style is having on your
work. If this is a regular occurrence the meeting should at least have a
temperature check for how everyone feels about something. At the end of the
day, this is a management problem and they need to fix it.

------
wst_
I have such experiences as well, not in Bay Area, but in tech startup. I am
quite sure that is not always the case (maybe even mostly not the case) but
I've found that one of the autistic trait is to have difficulty with
maintaining conversation, including difficulty with recognizing when is your
turn to speak. There are even questions like that in ASD questionnaires freely
available online.

The reason usually is that people gets really excited about what they want to
say. So excited that it is difficult for them to hold on. Especially when they
can guess where interlocutors are coming from and what are their points so the
rest of the sentence seem obvious.

I couldn't find any compelling research or article but there is this notion
that mild autism is more frequent in Bay Area. Not only there, in general, it
goes in par with high concentration of engineering staff.

If that's the case, I think people may not even realize they are jumping in
and it is not something that they can easily harness. Probably the best option
would be to wait when they finish and then continue with what you wanted to
say. You might signal politely that you're not finished yet. You may also
arrange a short chat dedicated especially for this issue, as long as everyone
keep calm and respectful I see no harm in it. The other option is to speak
with your manager about it as (s)he's in the best position to speak to single
member or an entire team.

I know it's a massive effort to harness jumping in, but it can be done in many
cases.

(edit: just fixing pronouns)

------
mychael
Practice being more assertive and embrace the change to be more strong willed.

Being soft spoken is not embedded in your personality permanently.

------
phonebucket
Do you have feedback systems/one-to-ones in your job?

I received feedback that I needed to give more room to others in technical
discussions, and it was some of the most valuable feedback I have received,
because it was a shortcoming of mine that I was unaware of.

Maybe the people cutting you off are well-meaning, but they just need to be
made aware of their behaviour?

------
RickJWagner
I suffer from this problem on videoconferences. I work in a home office with
residential-quality bandwidth, and I think there's a slight lag in the video
and audio. I try to let everyone complete their thoughts, so by the time I try
to speak someone else is usually already filling the silence.

I haven't found a good way around it yet.

------
LaserToy
That was my observation as well. And that is why women in the office are often
out-yelled. I don’t see how soft spoken person can solve it, it should be
recognized by the leadership as a problem first, and only then solution can be
found. Which is - somebody needs to moderate the debate, or maybe some
additional training.

------
james_s_tayler
I had a friend who was quite bad at doing that. I eventually made it known and
together we worked on it. I can't imagine a whole company like that. It was
hard enough to get one individual with which I had a solid relationship to
stop that. Good news is he did get much much better and now it's no longer an
issue.

------
tehjoker
If the people in your group are just over-excitable and not jerks, and you've
already talked to them about this, one way to manage the situation is to
appoint someone to recognize speakers one at a time and limit the time they
spend speaking. The appointed role should rotate to maintain a sense of
equity.

------
ycombonator
You don't learn everything on proverbial day one. Its called experience. You
will learn to deal with it with age and time. Just like a toddler cannot order
a coffee at a coffee shop but a 7 year old can comfortably. Come back 5-6
years later and you will be answering your own question.

------
pequalsnp
If you think it's a personal problem, I'd recommend going to the gym and
starting a progressive weight-lifting program if you don't already. You'll
build in confidence as you progress and get stronger, and that will spill into
other areas of your life. It worked for me.

------
knowingathing
I was once in a meeting with a total of four people (including myself) where
the other three people were all talking at once. I felt embarrassed for all of
them but they just ploughed ahead for a while. So strange... I don't
understand how people operate this way.

Thank you so much for posting this.

------
want2know
What works but can be hard to do is to direct you to the person who was
interrupting you, look them in the eye and say something like: sorry I was
talking and you interrupted me. And then continue where you left off.

This way you just name what they did without giving it too much weight or
judgement.

------
roadbeats
I live in Berlin and went through exactly this, changed my team, and that felt
like a prison break. If it’s an option for you, I’d recommend considering a
change. It’s totally waste of time and energy to work with people who doesn’t
know how to have respectful conversations.

------
ilaksh
It's fairly common but also very problematic. It's not acceptable. Make sure
you have savings, let the manager know how harmful it is. If you or the
manager can't correct it then consider leaving to find a better team if that's
possible.

------
hombre_fatal
I just keep talking until my sentence is finished. You kinda come off as a
wuss otherwise imo.

------
aurizon
Much of what you describe is covered in this search termset. Juries have the
same problem, the Loud Howard's over shadow the intelligent jurors.
[https://www.google.com/search?ei=2jMuXeWVCa-
OggekrZnoBw&q=de...](https://www.google.com/search?ei=2jMuXeWVCa-
OggekrZnoBw&q=defeat+Loud+Howard&oq=defeat+Loud+Howard&gs_l=psy-
ab.3...55493.62437..64099...0.0..0.106.1659.17j2......0....1..gws-
wiz.......0i71j35i304i39j0i67j0i7i30j0j0i13j0i13i5i30.e0XSznBy9aQ) Judges get
detailed training. Go over a few pages of these trees and select things you
can apply.
[https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+be+a+jury+foreman&oq=...](https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+be+a+jury+foreman&oq=how+to+be+a+jury+foreman&aqs=chrome..69i57.13094j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)

------
supro
Elders in my family say - Nature has given us two ears and one mouth so that
we learn by speaking less and listening more. When everyone follows this
simple principle, everyone gets to speak, and everyone gets the opportunity to
be heard.

------
cascom
I see management teams do this all the time with buyers/investors to their
immense detriment. They are playing jeopardy- trying to answer the question as
quickly as possible before hearing the whole thing (and often an essential
element)

------
rramadass
Patience, Understanding, Diplomacy, Assertiveness and Confrontation in that
order.

Conflict cannot be avoided but only contained. Hence you need to train
yourself to tolerate the mental discomfort which comes from being in stressful
situations.

------
cryptica
I think this happens when people in the company are not smart enough.

The best solution is simply to change company. Smart people are curious
(that's how they became smart) and they know who else is smart and so they
know when to listen.

------
starpilot
It's common in Indian workplaces. You just need to start doing it too.

------
paktek123
I feel like the above definitely needs to be addressed by management. When
your thoughts are unheard and there is no chance to get through it can be
highly demotivating as you are undervalued.

I would raise with manager.

------
broth
Squeaky wheels.

Things to try:

\- Schedule a follow-up meeting and discuss your concerns and suggestions.

\- Try raising your hand. This might seem ridiculous but give it a try.

\- Talk with your manager about this concern and try and suggest solutions
like the ones above.

------
Jugurtha
Similar thread, albeit not as commented:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20315367](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20315367)

------
ska
If this is happening consistently, it is a failure in management.

I don't think it is a Bay area specific problem, but it does correlate to
startups fairly strongly (due to weak areas in management).

------
Grue3
Ask to replace in-person meetings with an internet chat (IRC/Slack/whatever).
Loud people can't overshout others in a chat, unless they use ALL CAPS which
looks silly.

------
known
Within the context of
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility)

------
chiph
Well, 1, they could just be jerks. Or 2, they could have ADHD.

------
tanilama
It is common. As to how to deal with it, it depends on your colleagues'
willingness to adapt your advice. Hints: they probably won't change.

So I would say speak louder then.

------
quibbler
Maybe that is why Slack has become so popular.

Also, do people just ignore your input, or do they feel they alrrady
understood what you are trying to say? When I interrupt people, it is usually
because I think I alrrady know what they want to say.

Maybe people in SV are just faster than average? Like the joke in Microserfs
where the nerds watched video with subtitles in fast forward.

For ecample I also watch courses on Coursera on double speed, normal speed
feels agoizing to me.

So perhaps talking double speed could also help?

I think it is also rude to expect people to listen for too long.

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chrischen
I feel like a forum-style system like HN for discussion will always work
better than real-time voice. That's the ultimate solution.

~~~
swebs
Yes, but real time. This is why I was so excited for Google Wave when it was
first announced. It's a shame it flopped so hard.

------
bane
It sounds stupid, but talking sticks work wonders.

~~~
Zenst
Was about to say that when ctrl+f saved the day and I'll add - they cut out a
whole layer of office politics.

Only real downside is when you are in a meeting with external parties on a
conference of video call. Then it gets tricky.

------
enriquto
Just produce exceptional work and let the loudmouths spend all day cutting
each other. You'll soon get way ahead of them.

~~~
siphon22
Sounds like the lie moms tells their meek sons about being nice gentlemen to
get girls :( works until Chad tells your manager about how uncooperative you
are for not participating in meetings with them so they get the impression
that you don't contribute anything even if you do a lot of work. Chad gets
promoted over you of course.

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angel_j
You have to treat it as intolerable. Getting cut off is like getting slapped
in the brain. It's one of the first rules of engagement I make, because I'm
usually the most cutoff-able person.

There is only one way to solve it that I have found. Whoever is boss makes a
rule that cutting people off is not permitted. Enforcing it is like teaching a
dog not to piss on furniture, you must interrupt them in the act; enforcement
must be diligent, or it won't work.

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grizzles
Suggest a slack only meeting once a week. Then when they f up you can at least
reference your earlier slack comment.

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techslave
you won’t be able to fix this. find a new job. market is hot so don’t think
too hard about it.

------
6nf
Smaller meetings. Talk to these people before the actual meeting one-on-one if
you have to.

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a3n
It sounds like it's a company wide culture.

It also sounds unhealthy for you.

Not everywhere is like that. I'd leave.

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hackeraccount
Of course it's terrible. Especially when someone is telling you something you
already understand and you know it'd be quicker if they would just be quiet
and let you quickly explain the solution.

It's probably easier if I just start talking - hopefully they'll take the hint
and shut up. In the long run everyone will be happier.

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HeyZuess
`excuse me, as I was saying ....`, being a little assertive is hardly ever a
problem.

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bjornlouser
Start recording the meetings and splice all the interruptions into one giant
outtake.

------
_pmf_
"This is something that I never had to deal in previous work environments
prior to moving to the Bay Area so I'm inclined to think it's something
specific to this area." I think you have been lucky before. I've never known
anything else; I just got used to huge detours by bad decisions.

------
greendestiny_re
I would recommend paring down your ideas until you get an elevator pitch.

Keep it simple, stupid.

------
Animats
“Don't interrupt me while I'm interrupting.” - Churchill

------
AlexCoventry
The third time it happens, start asking "May I finish?"

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a_imho
Why do you care? It is (probably) not your job to fix culture.

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xtat
This is especially prevalent in the bay area.

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joaofiliperocha
against facts there are less arguments ... bring facts to the table.

------
whalabi
This happens in power plays routinely. I'm not exactly an admirer of the man,
but I've been pretty impressed by quickly interjecting "excuse me" when
someone is trying to talk over you, which Donald Trump has perfected

------
trynewideas
I stopped talking and started taking notes.

There are probably better meetings at better companies, so I want to be clear
that I'm speaking from my own experience only. However, I'm willing to bet
that if you're being consistently cut-off (or from the sound of it,
systematically excluded from contributing to meetings—being spoken over can be
a different problem than wanting to contribute and being proverbially shoved
out to the fringes) because of your personality and not your role or ideas,
then your meetings are more like mine than the ideal.

Most in-person meetings I've attended at tech companies are, at their essence,
a combination of

\- performance: demonstrating an emotion that motivates a decision. Someone is
angry, scared, or excited about something and wants everyone to know this. "My
customer is facing the problem we're meeting to discuss, and it's costing us
money! We have to take action about it!" — not new information, but rather
providing a motivated urgency.

\- signaling: announcing or confirming knowledge of something without adding
any new knowledge. This is sometimes constructive, for instance to confirm
that something has been communicated correctly, but it's often people
signaling to someone else present that they're present and knowledgable. "As I
understand it this has been an issue for X months, and we haven't done
anything about it because of Y factors." — shouldn't be new information if the
subject of the meeting is being tracked elsewhere, but if it isn't said out
loud in the meeting, how will everyone know that it matters, and more
importantly that they know it matters?

\- empty decision-making: agreeing to do (or not do) something, then ignoring
that decision as soon as the meeting disbands and doing something else. This
is the worst part, and why even when I did get a word in during a meeting, it
often felt like it was pointless to do so. "Let's agree to research the Y
factors further and circle back on this in a week." — a week later, because
the decision was made out-of-band of how all other work is planned and
budgeted, and the decision relied on people who weren't invited to the
meeting, other priorities have taken over and the research is either
incomplete, poor, forgotten, or ignored and some other action taken
regardless.

As someone who never consistently got the hang of any of those things to the
level of most tech company entrepreneurs, I started volunteering to take
substantial and precise notes instead. This in part absolves expectations of
me contributing in the way everyone else in the room expects — something I got
consistently knocked on in performance reviews under a previous supervisor who
was especially guilty of cutting others off in meetings, which was endlessly
frustrating — and also tends to accomplish two important things:

\- It provides a written record of the meeting that can be shared with people
who could not attend or were not invited, improving accountability among the
people who did attend. Fewer empty decisions are made when agreements from the
meeting are both noted and easily shared. When it's at a distributed company,
this also helps include people in other timezones who can't attend.

\- It gives me space to form deeper questions than I can raise during the
course of the meeting, and to also present those questions after (or even at
the end of) the meeting to the same people in a more persistent, referenceable
format (email, a tracked ticket, even Slack). At worst, I can reference it to
suggest a more structured topic for a follow-up meeting or in-depth
presentation.

The benefits can be good: you can help keep the people in the meeting
accountable, provide context to people outside of the meeting who need it,
contribute additional insight from a more unique angle, and help set the
agenda for any follow-up actions.

The downsides depend on your environment: if, like me, your boss values the
amount of time you flap your jaws during meetings more than the value of what
you do say, you'll take a knock no matter how constructive you are for being
intentionally quiet.

Again — these are from my own experiences, and my own solution. The more
optimistic solution might simply be to ask those people, before and outside of
the meeting, to either be more actively inclusive ("I've said plenty, what do
you think about this, president?") or structured ("I've spoken for more than
five minutes on this subject, we've agreed to give time for president to
discuss."). From my experience, these don't seem to stick for a number of
valid but frustrating reasons, like high staff turnover, or rapid and
unpredictable changes enforced by higher-level decision makers.

------
peanutgal2600
When it comes to getting his fair say in, Gerry Adams from Sinn Fein is a
master. He never interrupts others, except to tell them to stop interrupting
him, and his approach is very effective. When somebody talks over him, he
talks over them saying "I didn't interrupt you, don't interrupt me" in a
polite but authoritative tone, then he continues speaking until his turn is
up.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_QJtKLuXYc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_QJtKLuXYc)

He's so good at it, somebody recorded a parody song about it (a rip-off of a
Boy Named Sue).

I had a business partner who was a great engineer, but kind of an elitist snob
and never let people speak. He cost us a lot of sales that way, so I actually
had to begin texting him "Slow down. Let him answer. Stop interrupting, I need
to pay rent this month". Consistently calling him out on it in a private way
significantly changed his communication style and we stopped losing sales that
we should not have lost.

------
trilila
This is common to dysfunctional teams and poor management. While those who cut
you off might be over excited, others might be plain rude or some might lack
empathy, the job of a good manager is to ensure everyone’s voice is heard.
Some really smart developers may lack the skill of making their voice heard in
such environments, as it happens with introverts or geeks often, and that’s
where an experienced manager comes to play and makes sure people are allowed
to finish their thoughts without bullyish or immature cutoffs from others.

