

In the Documentary 'GTFO', Female Video-Gamers Fight Back - kdazzle
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/08/movies/in-the-documentary-gtfo-female-video-gamers-fight-back.html

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DiabloD3
Fight back against what exactly? I've played against and with many gamers who
happened to be female who were extremely competent. I'm 31, male, and I've
played games my entire life. I still play games, and I am good at games. So
were these women.

Trash talking is, unfortunately part of how multiplayer games are played now,
and it has gotten worse with all of these 14 year olds thinking murder
simulators are cool (which, honestly, is a good reason to say out of CoD-type
games and stick to more professional things like Quake3 CPMA).

When I see this stuff, about how women are "subjected" to this stuff, all I
see is another news article saying women aren't strong enough to participate
in today's world. Articles like these do not promote a world where women are
equal, it promotes a world where women have no place in the world, and the New
York Times should be ashamed of itself, this is not journalism.

You think male games just somehow pick on women only? No. You will be told you
have a short dick, you're an eternal virgin, you're gay/like it in your
mouth/like it up the ass, should have been an abortion, etc. You know how you
deal with it? Become better than them and consistently be the highest scoring
player in the game round after round: people who trash-talk all the time do it
for the false bravado to cover up they suck at the game.

~~~
richmarr
> ... another news article saying women aren't strong enough to participate
> ...

I'm 36, and a white male. I've played computer games my whole life... ZX
Spectrum, Master system, SNES, Amiga, PC, Wii, PS3. I'm a grown man who still
plays table-top RPGs with dice and bits of paper. I was bullied as a kid, not
badly, but enough. I have difficultly relating to people.

And I'm here to tell you that you are so epically wrong on this.

Firstly, men don't need to talk like that to other men either. That's exactly
the kind of behaviour that makes "gamers" as a culture seem like a bunch of
5-year-olds compared to regular folks. It's not okay. Your advice to women is
to get better at games in the hope they don't get bullied as much. Someone
always loses. The bullying is the problem, not the women.

Secondly, it's not the same when men abuse women. Abuse about physical
appearance cuts far far deeper because of the way women are taught to value
themselves by their appearance. Threats of rape and violence are far more real
when made against women because women are ALREADY live under the threat of
being raped by strangers and family members alike (and don't try the men-get-
raped-too line, we do, and it's awful, but it's rare enough that we don't all
live in fear of it).

Thirdly, you're conflating 'strength' with a willingness to voluntarily suffer
verbal abuse and threats as part of something that's supposed to be a leisure
activity. Who wants that?

Fourthly, you're also dismissing people's pain as irrelevant, or misguided,
something that would make anyone feel small. They're telling you that they're
hurt, and you're saying it doesn't matter. It's your choice, but it's an
approach that won't help you in life. Take that as sincere advice from someone
who has real problems with empathy and has had to work hard at it.

Actually you know what, I take it back, you're not "epically" wrong on this,
you're historically wrong. In a decade or two anyone in tech or games who
reads opinions like the one you just shared will be repulsed, almost as if
they were reading a defence of apartheid, or a justification why women
shouldn't have jobs. Don't be that guy.

The good news is that it's just an opinion. Own it then let it go. Be the guy
who sees the problem and changes things. It's the mature, empathic response.
Level up.

Or... you could tell me that I'm a gay, or a dentist, or whatever. Your
choice, right?

------
GFK_of_xmaspast
"Trash talking is, unfortunately part of how multiplayer games are played now,
"

Have you considered that it doesn't have to be that way.

~~~
mg1982
I think you're missing the point in context - it's this way for everyone and
the objection is that (this group of) women have assembled their special
victims group because they think either they're the only ones affected or it's
somehow manifestly worse that they are. But they're not complaining about the
behaviour, but that womyn are being targeted (by the patriarchy rape culture
misogyny etc etc).

