

Ask HN: What do you think of e-cigarettes? - mannicken

Hi,<p>As usual, I am looking for new ways to hack my brain. This time I'm looking at nicotine.<p>But not the tobacco; the vaporizing, pure kind -- ecigarette. It seems to be much more safer and doesn't fuck with lungs, which is why I'm even considering it.<p>I never smoked anything in my life so it's like not I'm trying to drop my habits. I just want new highs.<p>I'd be glad for any advice such as: THIS IS GOING TO KILL YOU.<p>Thanks.
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daeken
I started smoking in November of last year because nicotine is very
interesting to me, and I planned to get an e-cig shortly thereafter. Well, the
e-cig never happened, and after smoking for about 6 months, all the effects of
nicotine that I enjoyed were gone. I smoked because I had to, not because I
enjoyed it anymore. I've now nearly quit, but in retrospect, what a terrible,
terrible decision to start in the first place.

Don't do it, you'll regret it.

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DanielStraight
I think it's generally agreed that addiction is the opposite of hacking your
brain. Unless by hack, you mean like with an ax.

~~~
frossie
It also doesn't do what the OP thinks it does. It's more like a Hawthorne
effect - eventually your body adjusts to anything.

A few years ago I had to give up nicotine (and caffeine and alcohol) cold
turkey; I did not become appreciably dumber, past the expected adjustment
phase. It really doesn't do _that_ much for you, certainly not enough to be
worth the addiction.

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justlearning
"a new way to get new high" = hacking your brain? one way to hack your brain -
sit in complete silence focusing on your breath only for as long as possible..

other ways include picking on drawing(over painting)

"hacking" brain has nothing to do with drugs in my opinion.

(a tangential thought into the misuse of "hacking" - you are not hacking your
appetite by eating a macburger instead of a home made meal that probably takes
more time with the right nutrition value. )

May I suggest you to reword your question to "want to smoke e-cigarretes"
instead of the "hacking". My concern is that some 16year old enthusiastic kid
will read your question and consider this as "hacking the brain".

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dc2k08
As an avid e-cig user, I would advise against it. If you are not already
addicted to nicotine, then there is no need to start. Although there are some
studies that suppose nicotine might help people stave off alzheimers and help
with other mental disorders unless you think you stand a good chance of
suffering from one of these in the foreseeable future and you think nicotine
might be beneficial, there is no need to start a habit that will quickly
control you.

If you really want to try e-cigs, there is nicotine free liquid available and
one company (the original inventor) announced today that they will be bringing
out an e-cig device that will have the active ingredient lobelia, also known
as "Indian Tobacco" instead of nicotine. This is because they will be able to
market it as a dietary supplement, something which the FDA will not be able to
ban (they're guessing anyway).

The FDA are currently in court with 2 e-cig distributors because they decided
suddenly to the joy of various associates of the pharmaceutical industry to
classify all e-cigs as drug delivery devices (even though no medical claims
were made by the two in question - the largest distributors of e-cigs in
America) and confiscated their shipments. In a strange turn of events the two
e-cig companies are arguing their products should be classified as tobacco
products.

~~~
swolchok
Mayo Clinic warns that lobelia "can be toxic" and is not recommended "as a
treatment for any condition, including nicotine withdrawal":
<http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/lobelia/AN01877>

~~~
dc2k08
Interesting but nicotine can also "be toxic" and induce similar side effects
to lobeilia at certain levels as well. They sound like the act in the same
fashion and the amount of lobeilia which will be contained in the device
likely won't cause any ill affects.

From wiki: Native Americans used lobelia to treat respiratory and muscle
disorders, and as a purgative. Today it is used to treat asthma and food
poisoning, and is often used as part of smoking cessation programs. It is a
physical relaxant, and can serve as a nerve depressant, easing tension and
panic. The species used most commonly in modern herbalism is Lobelia inflata
(Indian Tobacco).

The company who are bringing out the product are highly regarded for their
dedication to health and safety. They are the only company who have had all
their liquid rigorously tested for impurities by an independent clinic in New
Zealand. They have also courted the health authorities in every country they
have sold their product in and I imagine their new liquid will undergo the
same scrutiny.

To be honest, after watching the orchestrated smear campaigns conducted
against e-cigs in the past year, it wouldn't surprise me if there was a
concerted effort to do the same to lobelia.

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rdouble
The weird, unregulated and unknown chemicals in the nicotine packets will kill
you.

You'll also be the kooky spaz smoking the electronic cigarette, killing your
chances to have normal interpersonal relationships with other human beings.

If you want to look stupid and do something socially alienating and dangerous
at the same time, why not take a more tried-and-true approach, like
rollerblading or riding one of those strap-in mountain skateboard things? At
least that would be sort of fun...

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bbuffone
Hack your brain?! For what?! is life to boring, too long, too sane. This is
the kind of question I hope my kids never asks (or wants to) and if they do, I
would get them a job, or a date.

Want a new high? try running a marathon, benchpressing 315lbs, or screwing the
hotest chick in your town. The two previous suggestions may be helpful for the
later.

~~~
mannicken
I'm actually a distance runner because (along with other things) I enjoy
(mild) high after a run :)

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sirsean
It sucks. It produces almost no smoke, the cartridges that they claim "contain
as much nicotine as a pack of cigarettes" last for 2 hours of intermittent
puffs, the thing decides to start "cleaning" itself regularly after about a
day, and the battery runs out way too fast.

It's a good idea, I think, whose time has not come yet.

* Disclaimer: I bought 2 different kinds. Smoking Everywhere and Smoke Free. Smoke Free was better in that it was actually the size of a cigarette and produced more "smoke" (vapor), but they both sucked so bad I was back to exclusively real cigarettes within 4 days.

~~~
dc2k08
It's a shame your first experience was with over-priced inefficient garbage.
Try one of big battery models (with a manual switch) from one of the American
or European e-cig start-ups and drip bottled liquid directly onto cheap
atomizers which should be considered disposable items. I got through about 2 a
month and buy them in bulk for around $6 each.

Here's my list of all the big boys:
[http://www.e-cignews.com/items/A_run_down_of_all_the_big_bat...](http://www.e-cignews.com/items/A_run_down_of_all_the_big_battery_model_e_cigarettes_on_the_)

~~~
gdee
May I ask where you get you atomizers from?

~~~
dc2k08
sure, sometimes Centraltrade (a wholesaler in China | e-liquid.cn),
Bestecig.com (A manufacturer in China..atomizers are great, avoid his
batteries though) and totallywicked-eliquid.com (A seller In America and the
UK). They all do bulk deals and there are some others too I haven't used like
Puresmoker.com (USA) and eastmall.net (China)

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drobilla
That addiction - that very, very strong addiction - will never leave you.
Ever.

Understand? If you quit entirely, and never smoke for 10 years, if you were to
smoke at all, it would be the greatest thing, ever. Good luck not starting
again if you ever do. Even reading this thread about someone considering
something I know is so utterly stupid flicks the switch in my brain.

If you want new highs, go get some real drugs that you can actually use to
hack your brain and/or make yourself a better person. Nicotine has absolutely
no redeeming qualities whatsoever. It is a POISON. How could deliberately
setting out to get yourself addicted to a poison with no positive benefits not
be an absolutely idiotic thing to do? Especially when it's without the
enjoyment/day punctuating/social aspects of smoking normal cigarettes. I can't
imagine many things that look more depraved and pathetic than someone sucking
on some electronic cigarette gadget. You want to be /that/ guy? Really?

Whatever "high" you seem to think is there isn't. Maybe about as much of a
beneficial "high" as holding your breath and spinning around really fast a few
times. Gee, that sounds worth a lifetime of powerful addiction to an expensive
poison, doesn't it? Go huff on a whipped cream container or something if you
want a head-rush that badly.

There is no possible way you wouldn't regret this.

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SwellJoe
This is going to kill you:

[http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/healthday/2009/07/2...](http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/healthday/2009/07/22/e-cigarettes-
pose-a-health-hazard-fda-warns.html)

~~~
gdee
Nah, I think that article is posed wrong. They compare smoking the electronic
cigs to not smoking at all. Of course not smoking is better. Much much better.
But by blocking them from the market they are denying another use case. For
people that already smoke tobacco. I don't know if you smoke tobacco and if
so, if you tried ecigs. I do, and I have. And smoking ecigs is much much much
better although in a "lesser evil" manner. The e-liquid (what gets vaporized
in ecigs) manufacturers should, I believe, purposefully try and try pretty
hard to mach the level of toxins and carcinogens in common cigarettes. They
don't. What is readily perceivable is to a net BIG gain. I have used these
devices for about 3 months last year. They were wonderful. I would ABSOLUTELY
prefer them to regular cigarettes even if they would not have a wonderful
potential for quitting smoking altogether which I strongly believe (with
arguments) they do. Outright denying that opportunity should be considered
criminal in my humble opinion.

~~~
SwellJoe
OP has said he is currently a non-smoker. Starting smoking e-cigarettes for
the mild "high" of nicotine is just dumb.

I've made no statement about them as an alternative to smoking traditional
cigarettes.

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radu_floricica
Nicotine is way too addictive to be worth it. It may be socially accepted and
not obviously harmful, but it's up there with heroine in terms of how hard it
is to stop.

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charlesju
How does nicotine help your brain? Relaxation?

~~~
Gertm
Nicotine makes you feel better for a short while. The reason you've been
feeling bad is because you lack nicotine. Non smokers are always on the level
of 'feeling good', they don't need nicotine to compensate for their lack of
nicotine.

Don't start smoking. You don't need it.

