
Countries That Don't Exist - chewxy
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20151103-the-countries-that-dont-exist
======
alextgordon
I thought this was going to be about the excellent BBC series "Places That
Don't Exist"[1] that covers Somaliland, Transnistria, Taiwan, South Ossetia,
Abkhazia and Nagorno-Karabakh.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Places_That_Don%27t_Exist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Places_That_Don%27t_Exist)

Simon Reeve himself has posted it on youtube, so I guess it's OK to link it
here:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRET1fHLWdE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRET1fHLWdE)

~~~
__float
Was the video working when you posted this? I just see "This video is
unavailable." (in the US though--but it doesn't say it's blocked in my
country?)

~~~
aluhut
Surprisingly it's available from Germany.

~~~
alextgordon
It is working in UK. I wonder if he set it to EU-only then.

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gozo
I know way too much about this subject, some favorites are...

Åland Islands, an autonomous region between Sweden and Finland which belongs
to Finland but is Swedish-speaking. What makes it notable is that it's a
demilitarized zone. Something that is more usual for conflict zones like in
Korea or far away places like Antarctica. It also holds an VAT exception from
the EU which makes it possible to buy tax-free goods on the ferries between
Sweden and Finland. TLD: .ax

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85land_Islands](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85land_Islands)

San Marino, a microstate in Italy claiming to be the oldest sovereign state in
the world that for some reason enjoy the best visa rules to China of any
country. Presumably because China will generally give you the same visa rules
as you give its citizens. Like many other microstates it's hard to become a
neutralized citizen, requiring having lived there for at least 30 years. TLD:
.sm

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Marino](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Marino)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_microstates](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_microstates)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_China)

Bir Tawil, an area between Egypt and Sudan that is, because of disagreement
over borders, claimed by neither of them. Supposedly the most non-remote
unclaimed territory on earth. TLD: not yet.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bir_Tawil](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bir_Tawil)

~~~
vitd
I just have to ask, given your name, are you from Gozo? I visited once about
7-8 years ago and thoroughly enjoyed it!

~~~
gozo
No, few people are. But I've been there and, although probably not Gozo, I'm
looking to move to Malta in a few months.

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TazeTSchnitzel
Don't forget frozen conflicts.

South Ossetia, Nagoro-Karabakh, Donetsk People's Republic, Luhansk People's
Republic, Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic, Abkhazia... these are just the
post-Soviet ones.

Then there's the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, of course. Legitimate
or not, it's very much a state.

~~~
serpentor
The funny thing about depictions of ISIS' areas of operation and control on
maps provided by, say... The New York Times, is that they're always shown as
wispy red tendrils curling along main highways and around towns, and that
level of spin is a bit silly.

The point being that there's some sort of psychological effort being made, to
assert that while all the main roads are under control, and all the main roads
certainly surround much larger areas, ISIS only controls the first 25 feet
outside of the roadway, as if it's bound by some sort of municipal Iraqi or
Syrian zoning ordinance.

~~~
KevinEldon
ISIS doesn't have an Air Force; they can't really defend the desert they don't
occupy event if it's terrorist with little strategic importance.

Had the maps shown ISIS with more territory someone might suggest a
psychoigical effort was being made to scare people into supporting a more
direct conflict with ISIS.

I do think it would be interesting to know how journalists draw these maps
though.

~~~
serpentor
I dunno. Technicalities of vertical envelopment aside, once something is
surrounded it's usually considered ceded to those who have it surrounded.

An inability to defend, contrasted with an unlikely target to be attacked,
leaves you with ease of access as a defining quality of possession.

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cwmma
Strange they mentioned the Republic of Lakotah while not mentioning the Navaho
Nation[1] as the latter is an actually functional government, though the fact
that it doesn't try to claim statehood doesn't help, the fact that it actually
operates does give it a leg up on Lakotah.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navajo_Nation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navajo_Nation)

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guai898
Taiwan is probably the largest "invisible" country. 23 million people Army
personnel : 290,000 Tanks: 2,005 Total aircraft: 804 Submarines: 4

~~~
imrehg
Greetings from Taiwan. :) It's pretty much a "let's pretend we cannot see you"
sort of diplomacy one the side of most countries (including my birth country
in Europe) - most just set up a "trade office" and conduct things almost like
an embassy.

Living here for ~7 years and thinking quite a bit about it, I believe
statehood defined by membership of "club" that is the United Nations is quite
laughable. There was no such thing a hundred years ago, and while the UN does
bring a lot of good things to the table, this misrepresentation of reality
(for obvious powerplay reasons) is just awful...

~~~
maxerickson
Some change this week:

[https://www.google.com/search?q=Taiwan&tbm=nws](https://www.google.com/search?q=Taiwan&tbm=nws)

(I don't pretend to understand how meaningful it is, but it was the first such
meeting)

~~~
brobinson
Many people (including my friends here in Taiwan) believe it's an attempt by
the PRC to influence the elections which are being held here in about two
months. The KMT (Ma's party) are going to get annihilated according to polls.

The political situation here is interesting, to say the least. There's also
this funny video about the meeting:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEn3xqrMasc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEn3xqrMasc)

~~~
desdiv
>Many people (including my friends here in Taiwan) believe it's an attempt by
the PRC to influence the elections which are being held here in about two
months.

How would that even work?

1\. Most people in Taiwan hate the Community Party of China

2\. KMT and CPC arrange a meeting to show that they're frenemies with each
other

3\. KMT loses in the election, which hurts both the KMT and the CPC

So it's conspiracy to between the CPC and KMT to sabotage themselves?

~~~
brobinson
I honestly have no idea. There were some thoughts in English by a Taiwanese I
found here: [https://frozengarlic.wordpress.com/2015/11/04/quick-
reaction...](https://frozengarlic.wordpress.com/2015/11/04/quick-reaction-to-
the-ma-xi-meeting/)

Ma promised when he was re-elected that he would never meet with the PRC as
head of state. It's also likely this meeting is unconstitutional (Chinese
text):
[https://tw.mobi.yahoo.com/home/%E7%AB%8B%E6%B3%95%E9%99%A2%E...](https://tw.mobi.yahoo.com/home/%E7%AB%8B%E6%B3%95%E9%99%A2%E6%87%89%E5%8D%B3%E5%BD%88%E5%8A%BE%E9%A6%AC%E7%B8%BD%E7%B5%B1-%E9%BB%83%E4%B8%9E%E5%84%80-210000647.html)

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stephengillie
Interesting that Western Sahara isn't mentioned. It actually isn't a country,
but it looks like one.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Sahara](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Sahara)

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ultimatejman
The micro nation Sealand is brilliant.

[http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150414-i-rule-my-own-
ocean...](http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150414-i-rule-my-own-ocean-
micronation)

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Hasn't been legitimate for a long time, though. England's maritime boundaries
were extended a while back. If they try something, English police will
descend.

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jdfellow
And here's a new one, on the west bank of the Danube between Croatia and
Serbia.

[https://liberland.org](https://liberland.org)

~~~
nommm-nommm
Would Republika Srpska be considered one?

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rmason
The amateur radio organization, American Radio Relay League (ARRL), has its
own definition of a country. I can't locate the exact definition on the web
but in general it is stated that each discrete geographical or political
entity is considered to be a country. Many of these 'countries' lack even
population but are considered so for awards purposes. Hams schedule trips to
put these countries on the air.

Here's the ARRL list:

[http://www.arrl.org/files/file/dxcclist.txt](http://www.arrl.org/files/file/dxcclist.txt)

~~~
ThinkingGuy
The Travelers Century Club maintains a similar list. Feel free to compare and
contrast:

[http://travelerscenturyclub.org/countries-and-
territories/](http://travelerscenturyclub.org/countries-and-territories/)

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Systemic33
The paragraph about Christiania is bullshit.

It is not legal to smoke or sell cannabis there, and the police have done
several raids over the years. Most people don't even consider it a country,
but more like a borough for the hippies. Copenhagen is mainly social democrat,
with some areas even more left wing, and clearing out Christiania would be a
very unpopular idea, because a large majority of their voters support
Christiania.

~~~
JupiterMoon
I'm not sure about how large (or how solid) the majority that support
Christiania is, most Copenhageners seem divided on the issue.

Cannabis is _de facto_ legal in Christiania: people buy, sell and use it
openly there without repercussions. This seems to be widely regarded as a good
thing.

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freditup
The area of the midwest referenced in this article is a fascinating area. It's
essentially undiscussed and unthought about in mainstream American thought.
But it's so interesting to drive around out there, so much land, few people,
and when you do come to towns, everyone in them is Native American. It's just
different than anything I've experienced on the east or west coasts.

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Mz
Reminds me of an email I once wrote that started out talking about Georgia as
an imaginary place. Countries, states, counties, cities -- these all have to
be dreamed up first in a way that, say, a continent or river does not need to
be dreamed up. A continent exists whether we define it and name it or not. Not
so with a politically defined "place."

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john_fushi
After playing Eu4 for a while, I'm kinda disapointed the knights aren't
mentionned.

See
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_Military_Order_of_Ma...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_Military_Order_of_Malta)

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joss82
It's sad that they don't talk about Uzupis:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U%C5%BEupis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U%C5%BEupis)

A nice little artsy pseudo-country in Vilnius, Lithuania.

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Choronzon
Libya and Iraq can effectively added to this list.

~~~
paublyrne
Yes. And many African and Middle East countries are inventions to various
degrees of the colonial powers. See Nigeria, Transjordania ...

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geon
Having a state not based on a geographical boundary would be interesting for
democracy. You could join such a state based on your political alignment, and
pay/not pay your taxes to them. It would be like working abroad.

