
Telomerase – Mouse lifespan extended up to 24% with single treatment (May 2012) - evo_9
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/05/120514204050.htm
======
carbocation
I can nearly eliminate cholesterol in mice (well, they start out with very
little to begin with) and my roommate can cure a Huntington's disease model in
his lab mice. If media attention were given to every group to achieve
something remarkable in mice, we would end up hearing about a lot of false
starts. And false starts are a critical/inevitable part of science, so the
only thing I'm really saying is that the media attention to this topic is most
likely premature.

Mice are a useful model, but they are different enough from humans that we
should be cautious when interpreting mouse data in a broader context.

Once repeated studies attacking the same problem from different angles in
different institutions start to align, that's when my interest gets piqued.
(Unless it's research within my field, in which case I feel better able to
understand the strengths and limitations of early-stage studies.)

I also admit that, to a certain extent, this is akin to a "middlebrow
dismissal" (though I'm not trying to dismiss their work), and I'd love to hear
from an expert in their specific domain.

~~~
lifeisstillgood
Finally the truth is plain to see - humans are merely the first step to the
true masters of the planet - genetically engineered immortal mice. King
Dangermouse will soon take his rightful place.

In all seriousness though, curing Huntingdons or cholesterol and many other
research h vectors may seem old hat to you, in the industry as it were, but
for the layperson you are at a cutting edge of science benefiting all of us -
take some of my perspective and you should be far more proud of your work than
perhaps your comment suggests

(Of course when the mice do inherit the Earth prepare to be kept as part of a
slave army)

~~~
stinky613
> humans are merely the first step to the true masters of the planet -
> genetically engineered immortal mice. King Dangermouse will soon take his
> rightful place.

That was actually mentioned in a Cracked.com article yesterday

[http://www.cracked.com/article_20090_6-creepy-things-you-
nev...](http://www.cracked.com/article_20090_6-creepy-things-you-never-
noticed-about-famous-kids-cartoons_p2.html)

~~~
lifeisstillgood
And a whole new career opens up for me - sarcastic article writer. No, wait,
that is my blog !

------
reasonattlm
So this one follows on from an earlier 2008 demonstration that claimed 50%
life extension via much the same method. There is some annoyance from people
in the know regarding that life span claim - it was apparently not very
defensible based on the data to hand.

Comments on the 2012 work here:

[http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2012/05/telomerase-
gene-t...](http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2012/05/telomerase-gene-therapy-
extends-life-eliminates-cancer-in-adult-mice.php)

And here is the full paper:

[http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/emmm.201200245/fu...](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/emmm.201200245/full)

------
zone411
Caloric restriction also greatly extends life span in mice
(<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3958810>) but it hasn't translated into
monkeys ([http://www.nature.com/news/calorie-restriction-falters-in-
th...](http://www.nature.com/news/calorie-restriction-falters-in-the-long-
run-1.11297)).

~~~
Camillo
Interesting! I'm actually trying to eat a hypercaloric diet to increase my
weight at the moment, and that's one less thing I have to worry about.

------
stinky613
I really need to down at least one cup of coffee before I read HN in the
morning; I was surprised by the headline because I couldn't imagine someone
applying something to their computer mouse to increase its lifespan. {click
the headline} OH! _Those_ kind of mice. {facepalm}

This is cool. It reminds me of hearing that tortoises don't suffer from
deleterious aging[1]. I sure hope we can start expanding into space, moons,
and planets before we have every John and Jane living multiple centuries.

[1][http://io9.com/5618046/the-mystery-of-why-turtles-never-
grow...](http://io9.com/5618046/the-mystery-of-why-turtles-never-grow-
old-+-and-how-we-can-learn-from-it)

------
RandallBrown
Assuming no major side effects how long before something like this can be used
in humans? What are the next steps even?

Does the therapy used to treat the mice with these genes work with humans?

What could the possible downsides of this be (other than things like
overpopulation)?

~~~
kenthorvath
Blasco also published in Rejuvenation Research last year about a dietary
supplement that activates telomerase. So, that + this makes for some
interesting reading.

<http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/rej.2010.1085>

~~~
dreamdu5t
Much better than the science daily article. Thank you!

~~~
kenthorvath
Just to clarify:

The previous link I posted was not the one referenced in the Science Daily.
That would be here:

<http://doi.wiley.com/10.1002/emmm.201200245>

Unfortunately, all of these original articles are behind a paywall. Most of us
here have some University access, I believe, but not all. Science Daily at
leasts gets you the gist.

~~~
pcl
Not I... It's been 13 years since I've had easy access to academic papers.

------
duncan_bayne
Early days, only mice so far, etc. etc. but this is pretty exciting. However
...

One of my greatest fears is that my body will outlive my brain function.
Hopefully research into various forms of senility will keep pace with
longevity research so I don't wind up buff and spry at 120, completely unable
to recognise my friends and loved ones.

I have a family member in that state currently and it is heartbreaking to
watch; I know that I'd prefer to die than live like that.

~~~
lsc
meh, just in my lifetime, I've seen the outsourcing of memorization. Would you
be able to do your job without a search engine? I wouldn't.

Facial recognition (if you limit it to a limited number of faces) is already
pretty good.

I mean, yeah, my cognitive abilities degrading is also about the scariest
thing I can think of, too, but eh, we are developing new crutches at a
reasonable rate.

~~~
duncan_bayne
Have you ever witnessed senile decay of that sort?

I mean, said family member won't be helped by something / anything like Google
or a notes app on a smartphone.

She fails the three-word senility test, wherein you ask her to remember three
simple words, distract her momentarily, and they're gone. Every. Single. Time.
In addition, she thinks her dead husband is overseas checking out a property,
doesn't recognise her grand-children, has no idea what year it is, and can't
hold down a conversation.

Outsourcing of memorisation is only helpful if you've sufficient marbles left
to use the tools. This sort of problem needs a hardware fix - medical,
cybernetic, you name it.

~~~
throwaway1979
I don't want to dismiss your comment. The three-word senility test is pretty
hard to get over. That said, I was very impressed by the work on SenseCam from
Microsoft Research. One of their original papers showed much promise in a
person with a specific memory impairment. I forget the details :-p Here is the
link:

[http://research.microsoft.com/apps/pubs/default.aspx?id=1325...](http://research.microsoft.com/apps/pubs/default.aspx?id=132537)

------
michaelhoffman
The telomeres are one of the cell's natural defenses against cancer.
Telomerase makes it easier for a cell to divide uncontrollably, and most
cancers have activated telomerases. Despite the claims that these mice don't
have increased cancer, it would be wise to exercise much caution before
pursuing this kind of treatment in a human.

~~~
carbocation
> The telomeres are one of the cell's natural defenses against cancer.
> Telomerase makes it easier for a cell to divide uncontrollably, and most
> cancers have activated telomerases.

These juxtaposed sentences come across as a bit contradictory. If telomeres
are one of the cell's defenses against cancer, then telomerase activation
should defend against cancer.

Most cancers do activate telomerase, but telomerase is not an oncogene.[1]

1 = <http://www.nature.com/onc/journal/v21/n4/abs/1205076a.html>

~~~
michaelhoffman
Specifically I meant what many would regard as one of the telomeres'
fundamental characteristics: their limited nature.

~~~
carbocation
That is true. It is also true that many regard their limited nature as a
cancer risk. (Not being sarcastic; there is a divide here.)

I think we can all agree that telomeres are critical for preventing non-
homologous end joining where it shouldn't be occurring.

~~~
jwco
Can you explain this divide further?

I thought the idea was that telomeres are like chaff that the DNA drops over
the course of many replication cycles instead of losing "more important" bases
of DNA. In that sense telomeres might protect against loss of function
(cancers). I did not know they prevented non-homologous end joining, but see
how they could. I take it non-homologous end joining could lead to gain of
function (cancers).

So what is the divide? Do some people think that telomeres protect cancer?

A comment above (<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4846137>) suggests
something like this. First a cell is converted into a cancerous state, perhaps
even due to a lack of telomeres and subsequent loss or gain of function. Then
telomerase somehow is upregulated. If there was some error correction process
(to correct the loss or gain of function cancer), could the sudden increase in
telomerase and telomere length prevent that error correction from occurring?

~~~
michaelhoffman
Without telomerase, the telomeres will degrade each cell division until the
Hayflick limit, where they die. So without telomerase there is a built-in
limitation on the number times a cancer cell can reproduce before it dies.

It's quite simple and doesn't require any interaction with other cellular
machinery.

~~~
jwco
Thanks, but it's not clear to me that cells die without telomeres or at this
Hayflick limit. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayflick_limit> says they enter
senescence. They stop dividing. This seems different than cell death.

That is interesting to me too though. I don't know why cells should stop
dividing without telomeres, or with telomeres below a critical length. That
suggests to me there is interaction with other cellular machinery at this
onset of senescence.

------
qiqing
The rate at which therapies effective in mice translate to humans is
surprisingly low.

We've also cured cancer in mice around 200 times already.

------
xenophanes
What is the argument the mice were living a percentage longer instead of a
roughly fixed amount of time longer?

------
andrewfelix
_"...aging is not currently regarded as a disease, but researchers tend
increasingly to view it as the common origin of conditions like insulin
resistance or cardiovascular disease, whose incidence rises with age. In
treating cell aging, we could prevent these diseases."_

Preventing disease by preventing age could be an unending justification for
prolonging life. Are there other benefits associated with this treatment? The
above explanation of the research doesn't sit well with me.

~~~
tolmasky
Are you against preventing aging? (Just wanting to clarify what you meant by
"doesn't sit well with me")

~~~
andrewfelix
Yes I mean ethically the idea of a single treatment extending life so
dramatically doesn't sit well with me. I appreciate the need to improve
quality of life in old age.

~~~
tolmasky
So is your concern that the quality of life would degrade as the rate it does
now (so in other words, you don't want really miserable 110 year olds). Or,
are you saying, even if we extended life and kept you feeling healthy for the
same proportion as now, just longer (so things were now fine and dandy until,
let's say, you're 80 and then slowly degrade to 110), you would still have a
problem with it?

~~~
andrewfelix
What the researchers seem to be suggesting is extending life for no specific
reason, other than preventing the complications that are associated with aging
that can and do eventually lead to death.

So my issue is; there is no great societal benefit to just extending life for
the sake of it, as opposed to say, making people more comfortable in their old
age.

IMO the world would not benefit from millions of people living until they're
130 years old.

~~~
xiaoma
At what age then, do you feel people's lives should be terminated?

------
thisisnotmyname
Interfering with telomere activity is a critical step for cancer progression
(see the halmarks of cancer, limitless reproductive potential), so this
procedure essentially makes every cell in your body pre-cancerous.

In my opinion, the most amazing part about this is that the way in which
telomerase is delivered is via a retrovirus, typically a relative of HIV.

~~~
carbocation
Since telomerase is not really an oncogene, I'm not sure that the notion of
"pre-cancerous" that you're advocating has any meaning. By that token, nearly
every cell is pre-cancerous, and in a fetus even more so.

------
ceej
Lots of misguided and misinformed comments on this topic.

Learn the real science behind telomere research:
<http://www.sierrasci.com/?p=telomere_basics>

Proof of concept: <http://www.sierrasci.com/?p=proof_of_concept>

------
hayksaakian
I thought this was about making my computer mouse last longer based on the
title and context of hacker news.

------
kingkawn
most people's lifespans are currently not long enough for telomerase activity
to make a meaningful impact on their cell longevity.

------
DigitalSea
"Want longer lasting life? try new LifeExtend from Bayer Pharmaceuticals
coming soon to a pharmacy near you"

------
someperson
[May 2012]

------
bjhoops1
Treatments with "DNA-modified virus"? Looks like we're one step closer to the
Zombie Apocalypse!

------
ommunist
What about the cats?

------
bitL
It's good to be a mouse nowadays!

------
bluedanieru
There has never been a better time to be a mouse.

~~~
etherspin
24% more time spent being experimented on before your cancer ridden or organ
failing demise !

------
pebb
All the side effects are positives. The side effect we wants.

------
freddealmeida
My first thought was to my desktop mouse. lol.

Pretty impressive discovery.

~~~
qq66
Mine too -- then I thought -- I've never had an optical mouse break on me, why
would I need this? :)

