
Farm 432 - lelf
http://www.livinstudio.com/farm432/
======
warble
I talked to my kids about eating insects the other day with the expected
results in the form of 'ew' and such. We've spent so much time in modern
society associating insects with disease it's hard to dissassociate. For some
reason shrimp which are essentially bugs are no problem because (I think) they
come from the ocean, so there's an obvious mental line that can dissassociate
them from other bugs.

This is a great idea if you look at the math, but almost impossible to get
over the emotional response. Maybe processing the grubs/flies into something
less recognizable would help, but at some point you read the ingredients and
you're back at square one.

Disgust seems to be one of the more irrational and risk averse emotions, which
makes sense - guessing something is disgusting when it's not has little risk,
but guessing something is not disgusting when it really is dangerous carries
great risk.

Interesting problem especially when recoginzing what damage our current meat
production is causing, plus the base inefficiencies of it.

~~~
lbotos
These guys are working on cricket bars as a protein source:

[https://www.exoprotein.com/](https://www.exoprotein.com/)

(No affiliation, they were a few desks over at a coworking space)

~~~
mVChr
Chapulines[1], a form of fried grasshopper, are already a popular dish in
Oaxaca. I've had them, they're tasty, a bit like salty, earthy, not very meaty
crab I guess. In fact, there's already a cricket bar based off of this
dish[2]. Americans in general are pretty squeamish about their food, but this
is not true in many other parts of the world. See tripe, chocolate meat
(dinuguan), balut, etc.

1
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapulines](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapulines)
2 [http://chapul.com/](http://chapul.com/)

~~~
lsaferite
Ok, having seen balut, I'd starve before I ate that.

------
ch
At first I was totally grossed out by the though of the entire process. It's
tough to see how the sausage is made, tougher still with the cultural aversion
to eating bugs. Then I watched the video where they are frying up the bugs in
the pan, and though "How can they be so thoughtless to use metal on a non-
stick pan"! So perhaps I'm past my aversion to eating bugs! Maybe not.

~~~
SwellJoe
And, then eating out of the non-stick pan with a metal fork! Absolutely
disgusting. I couldn't look away.

------
theophrastus
The key to successfully introducing insects into the western diet is
processing. Processing to remove the chitin exoskeleton (which can be saved
and used for making non-edible objects), and processing to remove the product
from the direct image of an insect. If you scatter some fried cockroaches over
a salad you'll get a some brave souls who will say "eh, crunchy, but not bad";
if you process cockroaches to a 'meat patty' or sausage or 'protein bar' then
the large majority would give it an honest try enough to become regular
customers.

------
petercooper
I've realized this breaks a willful ignorance I have over animal-based food.
Coming from afar, I can put aside the realities of meat eating and imagine
chickens and cows dancing hand in hand in a lush green field enjoying their
short lives.. (and yes, I can do this, otherwise I'd be a vegetarian.)

With Farm 432 in my kitchen, however, the idea of life multiplying to keep my
belly full is right in my face. How sickeningly first world.. :-) I actually
wondered if it was a project designed to evoke such reflection.

~~~
dmritard96
I have gone flexitarian for this reason. As someone concerned with global
warming, I found it troubling to eat meet regularly. Couple that with
industrial agriculture and that did it for me. If its at someones place I
won't make a big deal, but I basically won't buy meat unless its particularly
hard to get around. Even then its pretty much only fish and chicken...

~~~
finnh
I've always found this fish-is-holier-than-red-meat take a bit confusing.
Overfishing is a huge problem worldwide. Eating responsibly farmed beef, while
expensive, seems less impactful than eating many (most?) types of commonly
consumed fish.

~~~
dmritard96
[http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/01/07/w...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/01/07/why-
the-governments-new-dietary-guidelines-could-be-a-nightmare-for-the-meat-
industry/?tid=pm_business_pop)

Responsibly farmed usually refers to ethical treatment and has nothing to do
with CO2. That being said, I am totally in agreement that eating fish has
pretty substantial problems. The thing is that fish more wholistically face
problems resulting from global warming including coral bleaching and ocean
acidification to name a few. Overfishing and harvesting of marine life in
nonsustainable ways is just that, but if you are selective about the species
and the source it makes a big difference.

------
autarch
This is so weird. Are people really so set on eating animal protein that
they'd rather eat insects than just eat plants?

Yes, this is incredibly more efficient than eating most animal products, but
so are plant-based foods, which already exist, taste pretty good, and most
importantly, are not completely and utterly revolting.

~~~
dsl
People in developing countries don't have the luxury of access to the variety
of different plants you need to make a vegetarian diet work.

~~~
namdnay
What gave you that idea? The overwhelming majority of India is vegetarian

~~~
Stately
Yeah, no:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_country#India](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_country#India)

31% isn't an overwhelming majority. Plus you're saying that India should be
the standard for scarcity of vegetables, which it clearly isn't.

------
suvelx
What about taste? While bugs are a great source of protein, we don't eat foods
primarily based on nutrition, we eat food based on taste.

I know Huhu or Witchetty grubs taste similar to peanut butter. And while
peanut butter is nice and all, I want me some rich (but sustainable) beefy
taste.

~~~
rndn
[https://edibug.wordpress.com/list-of-edible-
insects/](https://edibug.wordpress.com/list-of-edible-insects/)

There are a couple of bugs listed, I couldn't find anything about beefy tastes
though. Perhaps, it can be achieved with artificial flavors?

~~~
astolarz
I've gone to a couple vegetarian restaurants where they've made some pretty
convincing "beef", "chicken", "duck", and "pork" out of tofu, so why not
insects?

~~~
sitkack
But how were the insects raised, farmed and killed? Was it insectane?

~~~
SolarNet
I think the idea is that insects are so far down on the animal scale. For
example, they don't really have pain [0]. At some point we have to relate
animals to robotics. And insects are so low on the scale of intelligence it
might as well be below our currently technology (Watson merely being massive
specialized application of our current technology).

Where as animals like cows have emotions, can feel pain, have memory,
personalities, relationships, etc. They are better than our current AI
software in many ways.

[0]
[http://relaximanentomologist.tumblr.com/post/51301520453/do-...](http://relaximanentomologist.tumblr.com/post/51301520453/do-
insects-feel-pain)

------
udev
Reminds me of the movie Snowpiercer, where there is a scene with an industrial
size device that creates protein bars from insects.

~~~
settsu
Geez, spoiler aler... never mind...

------
phil248
For those in the Bay Area, I highly recommend checking out Don Bugito. They've
done a great job of making insects palatable for the uninitiated. Everyone
I've taken to their food stand at Off the Grid has ended up trying some bugs
(despite insisting they would not). You can also buy them pre-packaged at the
Ferry Building. [http://www.donbugito.com/](http://www.donbugito.com/)

------
soperj
Seems like a great source of protein for animals. Would be interesting way to
feed chickens.

~~~
sgs1370
EnviroFlight is trying to do exactly that (create animal feed):

[http://www.inc.com/magazine/201406/bernhard-
warner/envirofli...](http://www.inc.com/magazine/201406/bernhard-
warner/enviroflight-turns-black-soldier-fly-larvae-into-food.html)

------
justzisguyuknow
Definitely makes me think of the scene from Snowpiercer (spoiler alert) when
they discover the protein blocks they eat are made of cockroaches.

------
weisser
Austin, TX is at the cutting edge of the edible insect trend in the states. I
had the pleasure of grabbing some mead and enjoying some snacks with a bunch
of the companies down there.

Anyone doing anything with cricket-based foods in the US is likely supplied by
World Ento (which recently merged with Aspire International). They're building
a massive cricket farm in ATX to try to keep up with the demand.

------
volker48
Why not just let the animals pasture and eat grass instead of feeding them
grain? Factory farms are the big problem.

~~~
frozenport
>>Factory farms are the big problem.

Is it wrong to say that factory farms are efficient and therefore less of a
strain on resources?

~~~
mycatbijou
They're cost efficient, not "resource efficient".

~~~
gfodor
how is there a difference? less cost = less capital = less resources.

~~~
willyt
Human capital. Fertile ground is better used for food crops rather than animal
feed crops. Marginal land is most efficient for grazing livestock. But hill
farmed livestock is labour intensive and skilled dirty uncomfortable work to
boot. Labour is expensive.

~~~
reitanqild
> skilled dirty uncomfortable work

Grew up on a farm on marginal land. Actually liked it.

------
ilitirit
One thing people often miss is that besides not looking very appetizing, some
bugs don't really taste that great either. Well, it's more to do with the fact
that they're just very bland or bitter. But, some animals are exactly the
same. The reason that lamb, beef and chicken tastes "good" to us is because a:
we've grown accustomed to the taste, and b: they've been _farmed_ to be
palatable (breeding, diets etc).

In Japan, some fish are given special diets to alter their flavour. I don't
see why we can't do the same with insects and worms.

[http://en.rocketnews24.com/2013/10/28/a-little-citrus-for-
yo...](http://en.rocketnews24.com/2013/10/28/a-little-citrus-for-your-sushi-
japan-producing-fish-with-the-natural-flavor-of-oranges-and-herbs/)

------
kpmah
If you're concerned about your CO2 footprint, one thing you can do without
going as far as eating bugs is eliminating beef from your diet and eating only
poultry. Minimal impact on your diet and about twice as efficient.

------
habosa
I am pretty into high-end foodstuffs and really anything that tastes good, so
I am somewhat surprised that my inner self says "bring on the bugs!". I think
it would be kinda cool to eat an entirely new source of protein and know that
I'm being just a tiny bit more sustainable.

Plus once in a while I get some pang of guilt about factory farming. Not gonna
happen with cockroaches; I'm pretty sure there is no possible world where I
develop sympathy for an insect.

------
stevenh
The widespread irrational disgust shamelessly expressed here, without regard
for how expressing that disgust out loud is enforcing the status quo and
contributing to the prevention of this ever being accepted in the mainstream,
is exactly how I imagine the pervasiveness of homophobia in past generations.

...Which I think is a good thing, because it means it _can_ be eliminated
through a cultural shift assisted by mass media.

~~~
Methusalah
Homophobia has not been eliminated and nearly everyone here expressing disgust
has also stated that they realize their disgust is irrational.

------
frozenport
Is insect protein better or more nutritious then protein directly from a
plant?

------
d23
Are we considering this more humane because the creatures are smaller? You're
still trapping hundreds of living beings into a tiny container. Don't get me
wrong -- I eat meat and consider it ultimately a natural part of life. I just
don't understand why flies are somehow okay to trap and confine, but cows
aren't.

------
zirkonit
Obviously more of an art project than anything else, but a brilliant direction
to focus our thinking on. Insect protein really is a good direction to grow
our meat consumption in, and if at first “toy” projects like this mostly
provoke disgust, I hope in 25-50 years they will be in a very different
position.

------
Aqwis
"Farm 432" would be a great title for a dystopian science fiction novel. I'm
imagining a fictional future Soviet Union where the citizens are fed with
insect products from collective farms simply named "Farm #".

~~~
kowdermeister
Maybe because of Fahrenheit 451?

~~~
slayed0
I think it's more about the idea of grouping humans together by a generic
number.

------
detaro
"Why Not Eat Insects?" published by Vincent M. Holt in 1885, including recipes
and menu suggestions:

[http://bugsandbeasts.com/whynoteatinsects/](http://bugsandbeasts.com/whynoteatinsects/)

------
briantakita
The "Farm 432: Function" video is good. What raised my eyebrow is two larvae
from the harvest trap are selected for the next generation.

How do you know which gender the larvae will be? Would the inbreeding cause
issues?

------
brohee
I could see myself buying and using the device, but not eating the worms
myself... The worms would feed pets and aquaponics fishes. Cats an dogs have
little in a way of yuck factor. Fishes even less.

~~~
GotAnyMegadeth
My cat will eat spiders and flies and then will say yuck when I serve her up
some gourmet fish in jelly. "I had this exact same flavour last week!"

------
sremani
The impending insect protein era, for some reason reminds me of Peak-oil.
Unless there is some marketing genius that makes eating insects sexy and
drinking them cool, we will not usher into that era.

~~~
bsder
Oh, please, foraging for plants around cities has become trendy among the
foodies.

A little marketing, a famous chef, and _presto_ instant delicacy.

------
code_duck
I love that this is being discussed. I've often spoken to friends of the
cultural cognitive dissonance Americans exhibit in being repulsed by eating
terrestrial bugs, but loving shrimp, crab and lobster. Many Americans never
see a whole shrimp and don't even realize that they have a bunch of antennae,
legs, a head and would be considered completely horrifying to eat if they
lived on land. Eating insects such as crickets is quite common in Mexico.
Personally, I will stick to kidney beans and rice.

~~~
joshuaheard
I think it may be because we don't eat the crab or lobster shell and all
(although some eat shrimp shell). It may help widespread acceptance if there
was a process where the meat was separated and made into some type of insect
hamburger that could be texturized and flavored.

~~~
pge
Crabs are eaten whole, shell and all, in the US - just only right after
molting when they are called "soft-shell crabs." Come to Maryland during soft
shell season, and you'll see them on every menu.

------
moonchrome
If you're down with eating disgusting things and only interested in
nutritional value why bother with insects and not skip directly down to
algae/bacteria - my guess is since these are simple organisms they can be
genetically engineered for mass production with low maintenance and "tweaked"
for desired nutritional values. Risks of disease sound much lower too.

------
jqm
At an earlier point in our evolutionary history we no doubt ate plenty of
insects. Grubs, grasshoppers, crickets, ants, termites... pretty much whatever
we could get our hands on.

This practice was generally discarded by humanity except for niche pockets
here and there.

Why? I mean... there must be a reason humans (for the most part) stopped
eating insects.

~~~
gtremper
Insects are eaten in most of the world.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entomophagy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entomophagy)

------
bluedino
Even if they just ground up so they are unrecognizable and added into other
foods, that would be a huge accomplishment. Imagine getting 5% of your
calories from insect sources, without knowing, an it replacing something like
starch. It could be added to virtually anything.

~~~
prawn
Maybe as an ingredient for breakfast cereals, muesli bars and things like
that?

------
sp332
The article mentions killing by freezing. Does freezing change the texture of
the bugs?

~~~
stevesearer
It might just be an efficient way of killing them that everyone can use.
According to 'Insects Are Food':
[http://www.insectsarefood.com/recipes.html](http://www.insectsarefood.com/recipes.html)

"Prior to preparing your crickets for a meal place them inside a plastic
container or storage bag and keep them in the refrigerator at least for an
hour or until you are ready to use them. This will not kill the crickets, but
rather slow down their metabolism, inducing a state of hypothermia, in other
words, prohibiting their movement when removed from container. If you prefer
however, as many people do, feel free to place them inside the freezer for an
hour or two as this will definitely kill them, guaranteeing their immobility.

After removing from refrigerator or freezer, place them in a pot of boiling
water sized to hold the specific amount of crickets you’re using. Add a few
pinches of salt. Boil for about two minutes. This ensures cleanliness. Once
boiled, remove from water and let cool. Crickets at this time can be placed in
storage bags and kept in the freezer or used right away for any number of
recipes. All crickets should be prepared in this manner prior to eating."

There also appears to be discussion of what the most human way to kill farmed
insects is:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_of_farmed_insects](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_of_farmed_insects)

~~~
sp332
Right, but I am wondering if the taste or texture is noticeably different.

------
xupybd
Horrified at that second video. You can't use a metal fork on a nonstick pan!

------
palakchokshi
Yup not eating insects anytime soon :) The device looks cool though.

------
VerGreeneyes
I'll keep waiting for cultured meat, thank you very much. Now excuse me as I
attempt to use needles to purge the sight of those 'meals' from my retina.

------
Kiro
I would totally buy this. I don't mind eating insects.

~~~
stevesearer
Here are some protein bars made form Cricket flour for you to munch on in the
meantime: [https://www.exoprotein.com/](https://www.exoprotein.com/)

------
fargolime
With fish stocks and aquifers fast depleting, it seems inevitable that it'll
become normal for citizens of the developed world to dine on bugs.

------
jweir
The funny thing for me — it is less the insects that are off putting and more
the sterile environment they are raised in.

------
dyeje
Really cool. I would definitely be interested in trying this out depending on
the price point.

------
forgotten
My mouth was salivating while reading the website. I think I'm ready to eat
bugs.

------
seanv
i'm trying to wrap my head around this, but im leaning towards engineering
vegetables with high protein... or enhancing nut production.

------
juanpabloaj
probably the insects were the first source of protein for the humanity

------
ilija139
Why not just go vegan? Pulses are relatively easy to grow and have great
nutrition.

------
kendallpark
no

------
throwaway230543
This is gross! Humans should be consuming less animal protein, not inventing
more new efficient ways to breed, torture and consume more.

How about considering sustainable vegan/vegetarianism before inventing
personal bug death cathedrals. Sick and wrong. Burn it!

