
Cat Litter Boxes and DRM - ds
https://medium.com/@jorge_lo/the-future-a-cat-litter-and-drm-6dbda26428f8
======
forrestthewoods
This is a relatively interesting situation imo. And it's tragically not
unique. Another example is the Keurig machines. The latest model has DRM such
that you can only use officially licensed Keurig cups. Suffice to say people
were displeased. A delightful video showing how to get around it has 670,000
views.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e0yCq1AEeY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e0yCq1AEeY)

So, here's why I think it's interesting. The companies that sell these
products likely make the bulk of their profit from the consumables. That makes
it economically viable to sell the machine at break even or possibly a loss.
Then the money comes from the consumables. This is a pretty attractive
business model both to the manufacturer and possibly even the consumer.

The downside, of course, is that competitors can swoop in and make consumables
as well. So now you're selling hardware for a loss and other people are
selling consumables for razor thin margins and you're screwed.

I don't think there is an obvious answer here. Some of these markets might not
be viable if the hardware has to be sold for a profit. So that kinda sucks.
But the DRM also treats consumers like shit, so that _really_ sucks.

Is perhaps the issue just that it isn't clearly stated up front? Amazon sells
two flavors of Kindle readers. One with ads for less money and one without ads
for more ($20). Once upon a time Apple sold DRM mp3s for 99 cents and DRM free
mp3s for $1.29. Would you pay an extra $50 for a DRM free kitty litter box? Or
an extra $100 (33%) on a fancy coffee maker?

Here's my take away. Some products are subsidized by consumables. DRM enables
that subsidy. Without DRM that product may not be viable. DRM can be minimally
negative (Steam) but can also be maximum hostile (Keurig). Finding the balance
is tough and we should talk more about it.

~~~
leeoniya
Then offer me a +33%, DRM-free Keurig and let _me_ decide what to buy. I would
have much less aversion to the company if the choice existed. Except things
are not that easy, for them to make up what they would lose in branded
refills, they'd have to jack up the price not by 33%, but by >= 1000%. If they
did this, you could extrapolate how long a tail they expect from each sold
unit.

The problem is, it's not simply selling the machine at a good profit; they are
not selling you a machine, they are inexpensively buying your ability to
choose...and that is worth a whole lot of money.

~~~
colinbartlett
This seems somewhat analogous to the cell phone market here in the US.

Customers have a choice to either buy their phone upfront and then choose from
any number of much cheaper "consumables" (prepaid mobile plans) _or_ to get a
huge discount on the device in exchange for vendor-lock in and a higher cost
in the long term.

Consumers, here in the US at least, widely prefer the latter either out of
preference for lower upfront cost or because they are unaware of long-term
savings.

~~~
skuhn
It may also be analogous in that the game is rigged.

Off-brand K-cups seem to sell for around $1.50-$1.70 each in a quick search.
Official K-cups seem to sell for around $1.50-$1.80 each. Obviously there may
be a non-price advantage to buying off-brand cups, but it's clear that they
know who they are competing against. A 5lb bag of coffee from somewhere fancy
is also between $1.60-$1.70 per cup. Coincidence?

Likewise, my post-paid phone bill is $60/mo and I buy a phone every so often
for $199 subsidized. $1670 over the course of the two year contract. If I
switch to a pre-paid plan, it's still $60/mo (for less) and the phone is now
$599, for a total of $2040. Other carriers are in the same range ($50-80),
most offer substantially less for that money, and basically everyone operates
right around in the same price region +/\- a few hundred dollars over two
years.

It may be that they're all running their businesses perfectly optimized and
this is what it costs to provide cell phone service and make a profit. I'm
more inclined to think that this is the cost that the market will bear, and
the minor variations that exist in service prices simply serve to keep a
minority of the customers churning through the market in search of a better
deal that doesn't exist in any significant sense.

~~~
Zak
It doesn't include much talk time, but T-Mobile has a $30 prepaid plan that's
definitely a better deal for data-heavy users than their (or anybody else's)
postpaid plans. My Nexus 5 cost me $350 and was competitive with other
flagship phones available at the time.

Over 2 years, I pay $1070, assuming I buy a new $350 phone every 2 years. I
might stretch the Nexus 5 to 3 years. If a specific phone that costs $600 is
important to you, you'd pay $1320. The plan is light on airtime: 100 minutes
with additional time for 9 cents per minute, but Google Hangouts can dial US
phone numbers free of charge now.

So you _can_ save a lot if you skip the subsitdy _and_ fit a specific usage
pattern.

~~~
mblakele
Is this it?

[http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/prepaid-monthly-plans](http://prepaid-
phones.t-mobile.com/prepaid-monthly-plans) "$30 per month — Unlimited web and
text with 100 minutes talk... First 5GB at up to 4G speeds... This plan is
only available for devices purchased from Wal-Mart or devices activated on
T-Mobile.com".

That sounds good, except that I recently tried to activate a new, unlocked
iPhone on t-mobile.com — and it didn't go well at all. The web site simply
couldn't do it. Neither could the phone reps. It took a trip to a B&M store
before I could get the phone activated, even though it came from Apple with a
t-mobile SIM card already installed. So this $30 plan may not be a practical
option if you want a specific phone.

That said I am pretty happy with t-mobile so far, using a post-paid plan.
Connectivity has been better than I expected. International roaming was an
amazing value on my last trip, but that might not be available on the $30 plan
either.

~~~
mikeash
The $30 plan is an odd duck. They clearly don't want it to be too visible. I
guess it's an attempt at market segmentation. People who aren't willing to go
out of their way to track it down will go for a more expensive plan instead.
But I _think_ it's available to anything that'll take a SIM card if you can
jump through all the hoops and twist the right arms.

~~~
Zak
It's not difficult to get in my experience using it myself and recommending it
to two international visitors. They just don't market it, so people only learn
about it through word of mouth.

------
donutz
"Every once in a while, when the scoop misses a giant cat poop the drying
cycle cooks it. It gets dried out like a little raunchy piece of beef jerky.
It ends up stinking the apartment up worse than one could imagine. It’s rare,
happening _maybe once every week or two_ "

Thanks for striking this off my list of "things I think might be useful." I
don't need the odor of fresh-baked cat poop wafting through my house. I'll
stick with the freshly-poop cat poop smell that concentrates itself fairly
well to the room the litterbox is in.

~~~
phil21
I wouldn't write it off that quickly. This thing is life changing. As in it's
one of those devices like Tivo you get and then realize you will never live
like a heathen ever again.

The baked-poo stuff happens occasionally. If your cat has solid/large... waste
products, it will almost never be a problem. The problem is when you get
"rabbit pellet" style poo, and it slips between the cracks of the scooper.
There is also a small dead zone in the center sometimes - but you can usually
resolve this by removing/adding pellets.

I have a couple friends who have been using it for years, and I finally
"upgraded" 3-4 months ago. Even if you have to replace it every 2 years, it's
still a great deal.

The DRM in it is indeed bullshit, but for one cat the cost is low enough to
not making hacking it worth my time. Perhaps if I get really bored one day.

~~~
mkoryak
> This thing is life changing.

not having to clean your cats poop once a day is "life changing" ?!

~~~
madeofpalk
I'm never getting a cat.

~~~
stoolpigeon
I'm with you. I had a friend that had cats. His home smelled. I had to get all
the hair off myself when I went home. And the cats didn't seem to like the
owners.

I know there are lots of cat lovers out there but I confess I just don't get
it. Thankfully it's a completely voluntary thing - the owning of cats.

~~~
GFischer
I used to have dogs, I love dogs, but I moved to a small apartment and I
didn't want to get a dog.

My girlfriend likes cats, so we picked up a stray from a local shelter. And
she is a lot more affectionate than I had been led to believe cats were.

Hair IS a big problem though. Smell is much less of a problem than a small dog
in an apartment (I might be biased, but I haven't had anybody tell me anything
about smell. I should double-check with people I trust though).

------
pavel_lishin
I feel like the litterbox of the future baking a shit lasagna once every two
weeks is a pretty damned high failure rate. Aside from the obvious gross-out
factor (I also assume you have to clean it manually after this happens?) I'd
be worried that today it's the cat's poop, but tomorrow it'll cook the cat.

~~~
donutz
Or worse, be worried that it'll set fire to the tinsel the cat ate and managed
to poop out without manual intervention.

~~~
0x83F1
If your pet eats something it shouldn't the absolute last thing you want is
"manual intervention". Have you ever seen how potters cut lumps of doughy
clay? They do it with wire. If you pull you can do the same to your pets
intestines.

------
CapitalistCartr
We've been hearing about computer tech coming to everything, even our coffee
pots for so many years now. Who knew when it did, it'd be DRM. Keurig thought
that was the way to better coffee, apparently. This has become idiotic. There
appears to be someone at every corp that thinks this is a good idea and
presses it. No downside, and huge potential upside. Until there is a negative,
it will proliferate.

~~~
click170
There's a very simple solution to this, at the moment.

First of all, do your research on a product before you buy it, typically a
quick google search will tell you whether or not there are any glaring
problems with whatever it is you're considering.

Second, if you find that something you purchased contains harmful DRM, return
it to the retailer if it is within the returns window. If it is not, post it
on Craigslist or equivalent explaining why you're getting rid of it, you'll
find a buyer without losing much money.

Thirdly, contact the company that made the product and inform them that you
just returned or resold the product because it contains DRM that in your
opinion is harmful to you the consumer, and that you will be avoiding any
future products that include DRM, and that you will be sharing your
BRAND_GOES_HERE experience with your friends and family.

The more we push back against this, the harder it is for that big-wig at
FooCorp to deny that DRM has downsides. This will only work in the early
stages while there are alternatives though, so push back now.

~~~
pixl97
You're right, that's what people need to do. The problem? That's not what
_most_ people are going go do.

Why?

They will walk in to Walmart and see PooperScooperA for $100 and
PooperScooperB for $200, will see the items have similar specs and buy A. Why
they won't realize is A has DRM that only uses special expensive A packets.
_The packaging for A is going to hide this fact as much as possible_.

And you are right, it leaves that advertising to us to bitch, post, and yell
about DRM wherever we can. Many people will complain about how tired they are
about said posts. Some forums will even be paid off by manufactures to block
such posts.

~~~
click170
You're right, that is a problem for people who haven't been bitten by DRM yet,
but I find that it typically only happens once, at least to people who care
about that kind of thing.

This is how I see it going: Person buys slightly cheaper cat box. Person runs
out of SpecialCleaningSolutionX that comes with the product. Person goes to
buy more, but is taken aback by the high price of the cleaning solution.
Person looks for noname brand cleaning solution and either doesn't find it, or
does find it but finds out it doesn't work. Person then takes to social media
to rant about their horrible experience with CompanyY and about how
SpecialCleaningSolutionX costs far more than the price difference between that
more expensive product was. Person's friends and family learn the lesson that
Person did, but through osmsis. CompanyY wonders why sales for their product
begin to drop off as word spreads.

It's unfortunate that a lot of people have to buy it to find out how horrible
it is, but the alternative is researching the product before buying it and
there's nothing preventing them from doing that, it's just truly unfortunate
that it's come to this.

------
anigbrowl
I do my cat litter manually, but the author seems to have overlooked the
Litter Robot: [http://www.litter-robot.com/](http://www.litter-robot.com/) My
friend has one and it works very well (for years now). It just uses off the
shelf cat litter. The mechanism is 'brute force' rather than optimized, but it
works: after the machine senses the cat has stepped out by the change in
weight, it slowly rotates the entire cat chamber, causing any deposits to be
covered by falling litter even if the cat hasn't buried them by choice, before
hitting the mechanical filter that diverts any solids into a disposal drawer.
It's purely mechanical, so the odor control/dust level is as good as your
choice of litter product. Downsides are that it's a bit bulky and noisy. but
there's no DRM and it's so mechanically simple that there's not much that can
go wrong with it - it certainly won't bake the cat poop like the machine
described - yuck.

~~~
Domenic_S
It's also the size of a Death Star and tragically expensive. I just picked up
this thing, which sort of splits the difference:
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000XSC8R2/ref=oh_aui_detai...](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000XSC8R2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

~~~
jevinskie
I found mine doesn't take up much more room than the old large litter box +
tray. I also have the "roomier" bubble unit. They do offer refurbished models
for $60 less.

------
peatmoss
I trained my cat to do its business in the toilet. I cannot tell you how much
better this is than any other solution. There are training kits that our
friends and family have now used for their cats.

If you live near the ocean, you won't want to do this if your cat could be a
toxoplasmosis carrier (I.e. is outdoors or otherwise could be eating rodents).
Apparently toxoplasmosis makes it through water treatment and harms sea
mammals.

Otherwise, this is a great way to go.

~~~
DanBC
>I trained my cat to do its business in the toilet.

Male cats frequently have severe problems that can be identified by changes in
production of urine. You can't see those changes if the cat is pissing in a
loo rather than a litter box.

Older cats become distressed when they are no longer able to use this method.

There are a few other reasons why people might want to think carefully before
trying to train a cat to use a loo.

~~~
cowpewter
Yes, the problem with all these automated cat poop solutions is losing access
to a super important clue about your cat's health. If you scoop every day,
you'll notice when suddenly there is more or less pee in the box, or blood in
your cat's urine or stool. Cats hide pain. Sometimes the litter box is the
only way to catch something like a bladder obstruction before it's too late.

Being able to smell their waste in the litter box is also an important part of
a cat's territory marking. Having it all flushed away or covered up in scented
cleaning solution is going to raise the chances a cat starts peeing in
inappropriate places under stress. Same with the lack of 'sand' to dig in when
peeing in a toilet (at least the automated boxes still have a digging
substrate). The digging is so instinctual that you don't have to train even
feral cats to use a litterbox. As soon as they realize it's the only place in
the house they can dig, they'll use it.

~~~
joverholt
Good points. If you notice a bunch of little pee clumps, or you cat is trying
to use the box way more than normal, probably want to have a vet take a look.
Also, if they suddenly stop using the box and start peeing/pooping somewhere
else on a consistent basis, have the vet check that out too. Our cats had
bladder infections. They start to associate the litter box with pain, so go
somewhere else. They may also be trying to send you a message.

------
pclark
tangentially related to blog post but very relevant to cat shit – i recently
bought a "top opening" cat litter box[1], and its incredible that they are not
the norm.

my biggest problem with cat litter is not the shit, but having cat litter be
tracked across the bathroom - this is almost entirely solved with a top
opening box. additionally, my dog is unable to eat the shit.

[1]:
[https://www.clevercatinnovations.com/top_entry_litterbox_abo...](https://www.clevercatinnovations.com/top_entry_litterbox_about.aspx)

~~~
anon4
Can you please not use "shit"? It's not that I mind or think it's profane,
it's just so generic-meaning now (i.e. thing I don't like or involved in
things I don't like happening) that when you say "my dog is unable to eat the
shit", I'm not completely sure if you mean the poop, the litter or some other
part of the whole construction.

~~~
mandlar
Pretty sure they mean literally eating the (cat's) shit.

~~~
ansible
Yes. The cat's digestive system isn't that efficient, and they end up
excreting a lot of fat. Some dogs seem to regard it as candy. Yuck, I know.
Probably a good way for them to get infected with toxoplasma gondii too.

------
userbinator
Things like this are partly why I'm wary of the "ubiquitous security" (encrypt
everything, tamperproof hardware, signed binaries, etc.) concept that a lot of
people are pushing -- yes they can benefit the user but in the current
environment of capitalism, chances are that any security measures are going to
be used _against_ you, to secure some company's profits, if they become cheap
enough to implement.

As an aside, I think it's odd that there's alternate open-source firmware and
cartridge resetters for a _cat litter box_ , as well as some 3D printers, and
there are completely-open-source 3D printers, but basically nothing at all of
that sort for regular inkjet printers.

~~~
rosser
_...but basically nothing at all of that sort for regular inkjet printers._

Inkjet cartridge refills (as opposed to refill cartridges)?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inkjet_refill_kit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inkjet_refill_kit)

------
monochromatic
I used to have one of these, and I completely agree with the article. The DRM
is shitty, the solution is expensive, and my house would periodically smell
like baking cat feces. Eventually unit started to do the turd bakery routine
more and more often (a worse failure mode is hardly even imaginable). So I
replaced it with a Litter Robot[1].

With the exception of having to buy regular cat litter, which isn't a big
deal, it's better in every way. It runs in a couple of minutes instead of like
40 minutes. It's quieter. The litter doesn't get tracked around nearly as much
as the plastic pebbles. It also has never turned my house into a shit oven.

[1] [http://www.litter-robot.com/](http://www.litter-robot.com/)

------
DigitalSea
The best purchase I have ever made for my cat was using the expensive crystal
litter. It costs way more than the cheap cardboard pellet one you can buy, but
each crystal contains some kind of scent and really, I clean it once a day and
it never smells that bad. They make a big mess if you don't put a mat beneath
the tray though and get tracked through the house like tiny granules of sugar.

I have considered a robot litter box, but seems to me, the cost far outweighs
the benefit of not having to change the litter yourself very quickly. These
things are pricey and based on what I've read in this post and tonnes of
reviews online, they're not particularly that great.

~~~
trhway
>The best purchase I have ever made for my cat was using the expensive crystal
litter.

expensive or not, getting correct litter is the key. And the mat of course.
And feeding good food to your cat - that would significantly take care about
smell, consistency, frequency and other important characteristics of the
output product, not even mentioning overall health and well being of the cat.

------
dominotw
I bought litter robot (www.litterrobot.com) couple of years ago and have never
been happier.

Please get it.

~~~
jevinskie
Agreed. Mine is very rugged, has a super simple mechanism (less things to
break), and the only consumables are regular litter and trash bags. The cat
loves it! Crap... this reminds me I should empty it.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
Doesn't it text you when it needs emptying, how uncivilised!

------
randunel
I guess you wouldn't mind losing your warranty on a cat litter machine, but
you definitely would suffer losing your warranty on a €20000 car. Although you
currently don't have an alternative for that car's DRM, I'm sure someone will
come up with something once these get popular enough.

 _The cost of leasing the battery for 36 months starts from €79 /month
(US$104/month)_
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Zoe](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Zoe)

 __Later edit __My statements were based on the previous rent-only strategy.
Meanwhile, they also introduced the option to actually purchase the battery
for ~€4000. As if your handing in your driving data wasn 't enough, they can
also disallow your charging at any time, and here is an excerpt from their
TOS:

18.3 Battery Data For management, administration, and accounting we will
collect information about your use of the Battery and the Electric Vehicle.
This is to allow us to manage battery stocks, maintain hire payments at a
competitive level, monitor performance of your Battery and monitor mileage and
fast charge use. This data will be transmitted to us by the telematic box
installed in the Vehicle. If you would like more information about this
technical data, please write to Renault ZE Customer Services, RCI Financial
Services, P.O. Box 495, Watford, Hertfordshire, WD17 1GL. If you have opted to
install a Connection Pack we will also receive data about your location. If
you do not wish us to receive location data you may disconnect the telematic
box. Instructions for disconnecting the telematic box will be in the
Connection Pack.

------
444000
To be honest, all your problems with the smell, and stuff getting everywhere,
cleaning bags, etc. would go away with Worlds best cat litter
([http://www.amazon.com/Worlds-Best-Cat-Litter-
Multiple/dp/B00...](http://www.amazon.com/Worlds-Best-Cat-Litter-
Multiple/dp/B000QSK4ZM)) - you just flush stuff down the toilet, and it's
doesn't smell.

------
Animats
This is becoming so common. There are 3D printers that only take their very
own special cartridges of plastic filament. The Form I, which started as a
Kickstarter project, requires a proprietary resin fluid which costs
$149/liter. (It's gone up; it was $130/l a few months ago.) However, it
doesn't have a DRM system to enforce that.

~~~
spdustin
My Da Vinci 3D printer does this - the cartridges report how much filament
they have left, and the gcode for a print includes how much filament the print
is meant to use. When the printer thinks a cartridge of filament is empty, it
refuses to use it, even if it still has filament in it.

Like many other DRM'd products, there are hacks for the printer that can get
around this (one resets the filament "odometer", another convinces the printer
that your print uses zero meters of filament).

Existence of these hacks typically doesn't affect the makers of these DRM'd
consumer-level products (like the cat litter box or the Keurig machine), in my
estimation. Most consumers simply won't know that they have an option to
either by choose another vendor, or find a hack to get around it.

People who buy 3D printers are already primed to hack that thing to pieces,
though. In that case I think the DRM was a waste of time and money. They
didn't understand their target market.

------
shmerl
This is insane. What's next, DRM in cats?

~~~
Untit1ed
It's not that ridiculous when you think about it - certain breeds are worth
ridiculous amounts of money - how much longer until we see genetically
engineered proofs of pedigree integrated into the DNA of the cats themselves?
Perhaps something to stop you from breeding more?

~~~
shmerl
Imagine what kind of DRM mess will begin when cyborgs will become a reality?

------
schoen
I read some ways into this before I was confident that it wasn't a Cory
Doctorow science fiction story!

------
zafka
We still have the manual version, but this fascinates me. It seems there is
still an opening for a high end solution. The race is on.....

------
ddunkin
Calling the chip 'DRM' sounds like media sensationalism, it really is just
'dumb memory'. Maybe I think this because I knew exactly how the cartridges
worked when I did my initial research on the unit (and knew about the
CartridgeGenius as an option before purchase), so I had no surprise when it
worked how it did.

~~~
mikeash
Can other manufacturers reasonably create compatible chips? That to me would
mark the difference between DRM and mere smarts.

------
mkramlich
simpler, cheaper, healthier alternate solution: have no cats

~~~
mkramlich
factually true, on-topic, helpful comments like mine should never be punished
down to -4. HN's voting system is broken and too easily abused by people being
jerks, helping to reinforce groupthink

shame on anyone that contributed to that. you're part of why HN has such a
hateful, obnoxious sub-culture that drives more mature people away

~~~
mikeash
"factually true, on-topic, helpful comments like mine should never be punished
down to -4."

Why not?

~~~
mkramlich
If you have to ask that I suspect you'll never understand.

~~~
mikeash
I certainly won't if you refuse to even attempt an explanation.

------
lotsofmangos
Go home humans. You are drunk.

------
ifelsethen
tldr; protip: potty train.

