

3.4 Million Americans are Extreme Commuters (2005) - MikeCapone
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_08/b3921127.htm

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nonrecursive
Below is my personal experience with different job situations:

Between 17 and 20 I never travelled more than a few miles for work. I worked
as a server at a resort ($14/hr), as a night auditor at hotel where I had 1
hour of work to do and 8 hours to do it ($8.25/hr) and as an entry-level web
developer ($10-15/hr). All of the jobs paid more than I needed and I had ample
free time.

The main drawback for these jobs was that I wasn't treated as well as I
wanted. With one of the web companies, I happened to see a recent hire's check
and saw that he made more than me. I asked the owner why this person made more
than me when I had more experience, and her answer was that I made a lot for
my age and that the other person had a degree.

From 20-24 years of age I worked as a freelancer, starting at $25/hr and going
to $90/hr, billing about 30 hours a week and working about 50. I always worked
remotely, and for a year during this period I lived in Hawaii.

The perks of working from home are many. I always lived near the beach and
could take beach breaks during the middle of the day. I had a lot more time
because I had no commute at all. The main drawback was that I didn't have
enough social interaction. I'm still discovering what a huge, negative effect
this has had on my life.

These days I make $100/hr, 40 hours a week, and I commute between an hour and
half and two hours every day, depending on traffic. I listen to audiobooks on
the ride in, but going home they make me too sleepy. Because of the
audiobooks, I don't mind the commute as much as I would otherwise. I feel like
I learn valuable things during my time in the car.

Also, because I earn more and bill for more hours, I make about twice as much
as I did previously. This year I'm planning on traveling around the world,
something I've never been able to do. I've also been able to afford a lot of
little niceties like improv lessons and snowboarding lessons. I'm very glad
that I'm able to buy these experiences.

I'm also trying to make friends with the people I work with. I already
consider my immediate colleagues to be good friends and great people, and it
makes me very happy to know them and see them every day.

The long-ass commute does get me down sometimes. I'm still trying to figure
out how to make more time for my personal projects. With the amount of money
I'm making, though, it's feasible that I'll be able to take little vacations
just to work on my ideas, something which wasn't possible before. So overall,
the long commute is definitely worth it.

~~~
MikeCapone
Thanks for taking the time to write all this.

Question: Is there anything keeping you from living closer to where you work?

~~~
thirdstation
Not always an option. In my case, moving closer would quadruple my taxes.
Decent neighborhoods are 40 minutes away (average commute in my office is
about 40 min).

There's also the question of working spouses and kids.

If it were for a boffo CEO position I'd consider moving but, to be just
another seat warmer, not so much.

(disclaimer: I really like my job which is why I drive 2 hours each way. If I
can work out moving closer that would be beneficial to all involved I would. I
won't get within 30 minutes though - that I already know).

~~~
jbooth
Quadruple?? If you're talking a state boundary, I think you're probably
missing something. Some states have higher income tax, some have higher real
estate tax (which you pay for indirectly via rent).

Quadruple your cost of living, I could believe.

EDIT: Additionally, somewhere around 80% of the taxes that you do pay go to
the federal gov't -- so it'd be really, really hard for a change in state to
quadruple your tax burden.

~~~
thirdstation
Hyberbole retracted after a little research. I was speaking of property taxes
specifically. It's _possible_ to quadruple my property taxes by moving to the
same state in which I work. That would put me about an hour from my office and
is the most expensive area in the state. Being within 30 min of my office
would be 1.5 - 2 times more expensive property tax wise.

------
esers
I think its worthwhile considering the possibility that work is broken.

It's easy to accept the status-quo.

Before the Internet, consumers accepted that there was an inherent trade-off
between selection and convenience: you could either have the convenience of
the corner store with its limited selection, or the selection of a WalMart if
you were willing to take the drive out to their regional supercenter.

The Internet allowed companies like Amazon to deliver both more convenience
and more selection. Consumers could have their cake and eat it, too.

Today, most people accept that there is a trade-off between living where you
want to live, and working where you want to work.

What if that were not true?

~~~
roc
I think it's also worth considering that American cities are themselves
broken.

Americans driving everywhere (and increasingly driving _further_ everywhere)
is a problem larger than just an analysis of where we live and work. I'd love
to see a study like this that also factors in how long we're spending to get
to stores, restaurants, schools, entertainment, etc.

It's quite likely that the Bus Buddies from the article aren't only burning
15-20 hours a week commuting to work, but more like 25-30 hours a week
commuting in general. To the store, to a ball game, to a kid's recital, to a
park, to a bike trail, etc.

~~~
code_duck
Indeed, broken by design. It's not just a myth that GM/Ford/Oil Companies
killed streetcars and public transportation. They really did do their best to
create the suburbs/commute/'MUST drive everywhere' layout to benefit their
businesses. Unfortunately, it worked.

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wallflower
I am one of those extreme commuters, by choice. I spend about 18 hrs/week
commuting on public transit. The daily commute includes 15 min walking to the
train station (which I love), an express train, a 20-minute bus ride (which I
dislike), and buffer time (if you take the train every day, you do not want to
stress yourself out running for the train) and (schedule gaps between bus
arrival and train departure).

I don't recommend it to anyone but the fact is there are costs and benefits to
everything. Sometimes the costs seem to outweigh the benefits of living in the
city, but, in all, I think living in the city has made me able to meet people
who I connect with. There are times when I am too tired to go out with friends
and times when I should be tired because I did go out with friends.

The times (which are more frequent now) when I am heads down in iPhone
programming - the train ride goes by quickly, almost too short. Tethering is
an absolute requirement. There are many times when I simply rest and leave the
MacBook in its case. Lots of time to think and start executing on app ideas.

It all comes down to: what do you benefit from living where you choose to live
and working where you choose to work.

~~~
duck
This brings up how public transit is a LOT different than driving. You have
the ability to do other things _safely_ so it's not like it is a total lost in
productive time.

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philwelch
New thought exercise: add the hours you spend commuting to your "work" hours
and calculate your new rate per hour. If your commute is significantly more
stressful than your job (metropolitan traffic jams), bill yourself time and a
half or more to account for the impact to your health.

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protomyth
It is often easier to drive and extra hour each way, then try to move yourself
/ your family in the current housing and job market.

~~~
aphyr
Really? That's 460 hours per year, spent sitting on your ass in traffic. If
you worked hourly at $20/hr, that's over $9000/year. If you average 30mph, and
it costs 24 cents/mile in depreciation, maintainence, insurance, and gas to
operate your vehicle, you're spending over $3300/year on that extra distance.

The equivalent of _thirty days_ of your life not spent with family, training
for marathons, writing code, building furniture. What would you give for an
extra month of your own time each year?

~~~
protomyth
It is not free to move, and it is unlikely that a person in this situation can
find work closer to home.

You miss the problem of selling old house, getting new house or (more likely)
rental versus low additional payment per week. Maybe you have kids, and the
school where you are is better than the one you would move to. Maybe both
spouses are working and you had to make that "whose work do we live closer to"
decision.

~~~
duck
You're right it isn't free to move, but what I think their point was is that
not many people do the math to see how much it is costing them in money and
time. I've done both, but when I was driving an hour each way I never sat down
to think of how much it was costing. Normal people probably just don't even
think that way, but once you see it on paper it is scary and I think a lot of
people would reevaluate things like the cost to move, schools, and your job.

This calculator seems pretty useful:
<http://www.commutesolutions.com/howmuch.html>

Lastly, although I can't find a statistic on, you have to think the more miles
you drive the higher the risk of dying/getting hurt in a car accident.

~~~
protomyth
People often don't have the upfront money to change their situation. It really
doesn't matter the final cost, if you can't afford one of the options. You do
what you can do.

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bokchoi
I traded a stressful 50min car commute across a jam packed bridge for a 15min
walk. I'm making slightly less money, but my quality of life has gone up
dramatically. My wife likes it too.

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mattmiller
I drive an hour to work b/c there is no reasonably nice and affordable housing
with good schools anywhere near where I work.

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wheels
For 5 of the 7 years that I worked full time before doing a startup I had a 1
hour commute. For 4 of those years it was with a train, which I actually kind
of missed when it was over. The net result was that I spent 10 hours a week
reading books. The amount that I read dropped off sharply after the commute
was gone.

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RyanMcGreal
I'd be interested to see what has happened to these numbers in the past five
years - particularly through the great run-up in oil prices that peaked in
summer 2008 and the sharp economic crash that followed.

Disclosure: my daily commute is a refreshing 15 minute bike ride.

~~~
code_duck
No doubt people with a 3 hour commute suffered with the higher prices and had
second thoughts.

Really, considering how wasteful these commutes are in terms of pollution,
time and energy expenditure for little gain, it wouldn't be so bad if energy
prices rose again and discouraged this behavior.

~~~
RyanMcGreal
_Stable_ high energy prices would do a great job of discouraging this
behaviour, as they've done in Europe. Unfortunately, in North America we're
stuck with "an energy policy that encourages consumption" and leads to energy
price volatility (with the accompanying economic volatility), coupled with
governments that are terrified to do anything that looks like raising people's
gas prices.

~~~
protomyth
Well, since much of the US was built on cheap energy prices, and no
alternative seems to be able to roll out in the next 5 years, all high energy
prices will do is cause people to give up other things. Many cities and rural
areas have no effective alternatives. Heck, I once consulted at a place in
Minneapolis, MN that had no bus stop for miles.

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minouye
Wow - I thought my 50 min. one way commute was bad, but I guess I should be
considering myself lucky. For those commuting long distances by car, has
anyone figured out how to optimize that time? I usually try to make calls,
listen to podcasts, or just take some time to think about projects that I'm
working on. I figure that about 50% of my commute is being used productively--
if anyone feels much more efficient than that, I would love to hear
strategies...

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tokenadult
Have the national trends changed since a half-decade ago when the submitted
article was published?

I work from home, except that I have contact hours for teaching about a
twenty-minute drive from here. We live near a city bike and hiking trail, and
walk to much of our shopping and to the public library where I do much of my
research.

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lukev
I recently moved and reduced my commute from an hour and twenty minutes (one-
way) to about twenty-five.

It has made an incredible difference. I'm much more relaxed, and I feel like I
actually have a life during the week again. I'd probably take up to a 20% pay
cut to avoid doing it again.

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thirdstation
I'm one of those extreme commuters too. I work from home two days a week so, I
try to look at it like I spend 4-out-of-7 days at home. It helps only a
little.

My previous job was 100% telecommuting. That lasted almost five years.

It's better than not working (did that too).

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ax0n
I got laid off in January, but I really, really miss my commute. It cleared my
mind, woke me up on the way to work, made me feel healthier, and let me blow
off some steam on the way home after the really stressful days. It was an hour
each way, give or take...

By bicycle. ;)

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blackguardx
New Paltz is a sweet town, but that bus costs $20 one-way. Doing that everyday
adds up to a lot of money very quickly.

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joe_the_user
I wonder if the figures are the same now, after the housing bust.

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JohnnyBrown
First, I freely admit this is probably not even a meaningful comparison, I'm
just gloating.

I'm a student (CS major) at a mediocre school in a tourist city. I live within
walking distance of the bar I work at, and school is a 20 min bike ride away.

last week I turned in a file compressing application I wrote in MASM assembly
language.

right now I'm high on mushrooms.

