
MIT's free online classes can now lead to MicroMaster's degree - prostoalex
http://www.sfgate.com/business/technology/article/For-1st-time-MIT-s-free-online-classes-can-carry-6556128.php
======
sandworm101
Isn't the point of having a degree that you don't have to explain it? Isn't it
shorthand for "I know X"? I'm not sure I want to spend a year working on an
"MIT micromasters" only to have every interviewer ask wtf.

~~~
csours
The Second (in person) Semester, at 33K USD leads to an actual Master's
Degree[1].

It looks like the first master's program this is available for is Supply Chain
Management, which from what I've seen[2] is one of the harder parts of
manufacturing

1\. [http://micromasters.mit.edu/](http://micromasters.mit.edu/) 2\. General
Motors Assembly Plant (IT though, not supply chain)

~~~
analog31
I work for a manufacturing business. I agree with what you say about supply
chain, especially if "harder" implies "more stressful." Purchasing is one of
the most stressful and high-burnout jobs in the plant.

I doubt that a person would be hired fresh out of school for this kind of job,
which implies that the 33K USD would be paid for by an employer, perhaps for
someone who is showing promise in a related field or at a lower level.

------
20years
This is a step in the right direction. However the $33k for the 2nd semester
is still out of reach for many.

"As part of the pilot project, students who perform well in the online half
can take an exam to apply for the second semester on campus. Those who get in
would pay $33,000, about half the cost of the yearlong program."

Would be nice to see them eventually offer affordable online courses & exams
for 8 semesters.

~~~
mattmanser
Seems far too much for an online-only degree, but I guess the danger is
devaluing the MIT brand.

And in essence I guess it is a sort of freemium structure.

~~~
cheald
The $33k is for an on-campus semister to complete the Master's, not the online
MicroMaster's degree.

------
martin_bech
As someone living in a country with free education, 33k is a metric shit ton
of money. (Denmark)

But always cool, with more options.

~~~
colechristensen
Your education is obviously not free, somebody (still you) is paying for it,
just not directly. I wonder how the actual cost differs?

~~~
kaybe
So I googled it, and for Germany there seems to be a mean cost of 118,000 €
per student for the whole degree.

It is very different depending on degree and also university. Medicine is very
expensive and half the money goes into educating doctors.

The cost per year per student ranges between 5930 € and 12,170€ over the
Bundesländer (counties), maybe depending on the degrees offered? [1]

I found a number for the average cost in the US at US$36,564 per year [2],
which today is 32,199 €. So, for Germany, it's about a third per year on
average.

edit: Is the US tuition the full cost?

[1][http://www.spiegel.de/unispiegel/studium/grossbild-263275-28...](http://www.spiegel.de/unispiegel/studium/grossbild-263275-288574.html)

[2][http://www.topuniversities.com/student-info/student-
finance/...](http://www.topuniversities.com/student-info/student-finance/how-
much-does-it-cost-study-us)

~~~
nmrm2
The German number is measuring the _cost_. The US is measuring _the amount
that universities charge_. Those are two very different things.

The actual cost is probably still substantially smaller in Germany -- IMO
higher ed is one of those areas where markets create lots of inefficiences
that a mostly or completely socialized system doesn't have (e.g., spending
tens of millions on fancy new buildings and other amenities designed to
attract people).

~~~
Tideflat
The lesson of the USSR seems to have been that competitive free markets tend
to be more efficient than socialized ones, because the inefficient
universities would be out competed by the efficient ones. (You could still be
right though, because universities are not a perfectly free market.)

~~~
nmrm2
_> The lesson of the USSR seems to have been..._

...that victors write the history books.

Seriously, the notion that there was a single cause for the decline of the
USSR -- and that this cause corresponds _exactly_ to the ideologies at the
heart of its antagonistic relationship with its enemies -- is prime facia
suspicious. There were a myriad of economic, structural, political,
environmental, geopolitical, and military reasons for the collapse of the
USSR. Boiling all of that down to "Socialism Bad" is a nice rallying cry, but
not exactly a helpful analysis (or at all likely to be very accurate).

 _>... because the inefficient universities would be out competed by the
efficient ones_

What does this even mean? What does it mean for a university to be
"efficient"?

I think you're confusing what ideology claims should happen with observable
reality; namely, that higher education in the US is 1) closer to a free market
than peer nations; and 2) horrendously more expensive than peer nations.

 _>... because universities are not a perfectly free market_

It's one thing to say "we don't know what works, so let's try the thing that
one particular ideology prescribes."

It's another thing to say "Those people over there don't have our problem. I
bet the reason is because we're not doubled down on the exact _opposite_ of
what they're doing."

In any case, I think I answered above why a free market won't fix higher
education: brand names / flashy stadiums / dorms / academic buildings sell
better than good instruction and solid research.

------
tzm
Here's the direct link to MITx MicroMaster’s credential
[http://micromasters.mit.edu/](http://micromasters.mit.edu/)

------
maouida
They did not mention whether non-US residents are included in this program or
not.

~~~
kawera
Open to all: "MIT proudly announces two new programs that offer learners
around the world ..." \-
[http://micromasters.mit.edu/](http://micromasters.mit.edu/)

------
sotojuan
Is this for their OpenCourse Ware thing? IMO MIT OCW is very underrated and
looked over in favor of Coursera, which I've almost always found inferior.

~~~
copperx
I've never taken a full class in either, but although Coursera seems more
structured (they have quizzes, tests, homework autograders), my impression is
that Coursera is more technically diluted. This is for the CS and stat courses
I have tried.

~~~
sotojuan
A lot of MIT OCW courses have all of those aside from the autograders, but the
reason I prefer OCW to Coursera is because OCW is self-paced.

Many Coursera courses move very slowly (not their fault since they're taking
thousands of students), or move too fast and have too much "homework" for a
9-5er. What's worse, some don't let you get ahead! With OCW I can set my own
times and pace myself for my kind of learning.

I also prefer college lectures and books to Coursera lectures. Like you said,
Coursera content can be too simple.

~~~
jacalata
Most of the Coursera courses I take are actual college courses, like this
algorithms one -
[https://class.coursera.org/algs4partI-009](https://class.coursera.org/algs4partI-009)
They are a lot of work to keep up with, but the good ones have deadlines about
a month past the 'end' of the course so you can work at a much slower pace.

------
hack_mmmm
Well, Why do we care of showing degrees off and that gets counted in? "I have
a board which says 'Alas, I graduated MBA from 'bla bla'"

I would say, if we are able to show what we have built, or talk and convince
intellectually as to what we are capable to build should matter more than any
piece of paper. I do agree, there would be a problem of filtering the right
ones for a job in lieu of a "paper degree", but I hope there comes a better
way in the world to judge and educate people to be more innovative and
building real incremental things rather than just getting 'paper degrees'"

~~~
biot
Did you create a second account to re-post the same comment?
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10410926](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10410926)

------
rebekah-aimee
This has to be really cost-effective for MIT; I mean, they aren't really
putting much in the way of resources towards these online students. But I
think it's an attempt to solve a problem that's already in the process of
evolving into a non-problem.

Most of the good programmers I know just go to school mostly for the
credentials and to socialize with other programmers there, and then go home
and self-teach for actual skill. School centers around getting a job. But it's
starting to become not the only way to get a job. (Leaving out startups, of
course; you don't really need credentials there except to impress VCs.)

Some companies are recognizing that formal education in programming is not
very effective, and are paying more attention to StackOverflow and GitHub
accounts and that sort of thing. Our work and expertise is becoming more
visible through the Internet. That suggests that maybe we're not going to have
to worry so much about credentials.

My older brother is doing very well for himself as a developer, without any
formal training past some classes in high school back in the 90s. As for
myself, I'm leaving for Kansas City once I'm done with my Associate's degree,
and I'm going to UMKC there... for a few semesters, until I find a job and/or
a cofounder. I don't intend to finish the degree I'm going to sign up for.
They let slip during my visit there that they're already having issues
convincing students to finish their degrees rather than let themselves be
hired out.

But I do intend to go, in order to meet other programmers. That's the real
power of universities: they collect bright, ambitious people and let them work
together. Online classes don't have that power, and the credential problem is
already being solved better, so I don't think this is going to go very far.
But maybe it'll help accelerate the current solution by giving more credence
to self-teaching and online study. Good try, but it'll probably be irrelevant
in the end.

Kind of begs the question of whether one could recreate the social aspect of
universities and leave out the expense of formal classes as they are now? For
instance, whether you could make a sort of hackerspace-modelled university
where all the "classes" were projects that one student was looking for help
with? I'd attend that.

Hmm... sounds familiar, doesn't it? ;)

~~~
chambo622
>> Kind of begs the question of whether one could recreate the social aspect
of universities and leave out the expense of formal classes as they are now?
For instance, whether you could make a sort of hackerspace-modelled university
where all the "classes" were projects that one student was looking for help
with? I'd attend that.

Sounds kind of like Make School [1]. Will be interesting to see the outcomes
for their first real 'class' of students.

[1] [https://www.makeschool.com/](https://www.makeschool.com/)

~~~
rebekah-aimee
I was referring to YC, but I'm glad to see there are others following this
model. I'll have to keep an eye on Make School; thanks for the link!

~~~
julien421
Make School is a great school. I have talked to students, they love it. Also a
YC company :)

FYI also sounds like Holberton School[1] - 100% project-based.

[1] [https://www.holbertonschool.com](https://www.holbertonschool.com)

------
Elizer0x0309
They should just allow for exam taking for free and if you pass you need to
pay a certain amount for the degree. At least it'll cut through the BS.

~~~
F2468
Exams will be proctored. That costs money. Who picks up the tab when a student
fails?

~~~
Elizer0x0309
Ok, charge cheap exams, whatever the proctors cost + getting a room etc.
(<$100)

------
agumonkey
I guess this is for poor isolated geniuses that will find ways to be sponsored
the remaining $33K otherwise I don't see how this would work.

------
Futurebot
If this is successful, perhaps they'd consider expanding this to a Bachelor's
(MicroBachelors). It's a step in the right direction, at least. I've gone
through a lot of the MIT OCW videos and notes, and by and large, the quality
is very high. Promising.

~~~
grumblestumble
I think that would be very useful for a lot of older tech types, like myself,
who never bothered with a Bachelor's degree in the first place. I'm in the
East Bay and there are a number of master-level programs that seem very
interesting, but the idea of doing a 4-year undergrad degree at this point
makes me want to stab my eyes out - I'm pushing 40, have kids, and doing fine
in my career.

------
m3talridl3y
MicroMasters? Is that like a Bachelor's without calling it a Bachelor's, so
people keep paying exorbitant amounts of money to attend physical classes to
ultimately get a piece of paper? Ok MIT.

~~~
bzbarsky
If you read the article, it clearly says that they let you do the first half
of the Masters in this degree program online for much cheaper than doing it on
campus. Then if you do well enough they give you a certificate for that part,
and if you want you can do the second half of the Masters at that point,
paying half of the normal amount you would pay for the full Masters degree.

If nothing else, this restricts the set of people who end up paying for that
second half to those who have already demonstrated they can handle the work.

~~~
vessenes
It also makes it more likely that their employers will foot the bill. Saying
"I did the first half, here are my grades, please send me for the second" is a
pretty compelling pitch.

------
saintfiends
Are there no online undergraduate degree courses? Why is it always master's?

For example Georgia Tech has online master's degrees but no undergraduate
courses.

~~~
erebus_rex
Getting employers to accept online bachelors is a lot harder than masters.
Most jobs have bachelors requirements and an online degree will likely get
flagged. But for a masters it can work as an added bonus.

------
cowsandmilk
you also have to pay $150 for the verified certificate in the semester. and I
believe that has to be paid before the semester starts.

~~~
bentpins
In a pilot project announced Wednesday, students will be able to take a
semester of free online courses in one of MIT's graduate programs and then, if
they pay a "modest fee" of about $1,500 and pass an exam, they will earn a
MicroMaster's credential, the school said.

If the trial fee is $1500, I'm not sure they'd go right back to $150

~~~
anamexis
> The cost of the MicroMaster's includes $150 for each of the five online
> classes, plus up to $800 to take the exam.

So, sounds like $150 up front for each course, and then $800 to tie it all up
with the exam, for $1500 total.

------
tonomics
Anyone has more information about what subjects they'd offer?

Honestly, it's surprising this took so long to happen.

------
Pxtl
All I can think of is the Micromasters transformers toy line.

------
EugeneOZ
Will it help to get visa? I'm in :)

------
hackerboos
Slightly OT.

The video embedded in the article talks about Tsinghua University beating MIT
in rankings. This is a quantity vs quality since Tsinghua University churns
out more research papers than MIT [1] because of the vast amount of students.

[1] - [http://qz.com/522471/the-real-reason-chinese-universities-
ar...](http://qz.com/522471/the-real-reason-chinese-universities-are-climbing-
the-ranks-in-engineering-and-beat-out-mit/)

~~~
thaumasiotes
To be fair, Tsinghua is widely accepted as the second best university in all
of China; the quality of the students is extremely high. The quality of the
research is probably not so high.

~~~
gojomo
And Tsinghua graduates figure disproportionately in the national leadership:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsinghua_clique](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsinghua_clique)

I suppose it's a bit like if MIT grads were ~40% of the US cabinet or Senate
committee chairs – rather than so many Ivy League lawyers.

~~~
thaumasiotes
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C9_League](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C9_League)

As far as I know, the prestige university you go to if you want a specifically
technical education is Shanghai Jiao Tong Daxue. (Don't take that as
particularly authoritative; I'm mostly familiar with it as a contrast to
Fudan.) But I don't believe Tsinghua is technically focused in the manner of
MIT. It's very much part of China's Ivy League.

------
SimplyUseless
The same story submitted here a few days ago

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10381464](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10381464)

~~~
dang
Reposts are ok if a story hasn't had significant attention yet. Once it has,
we treat reposts as dupes.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html)

------
Animats
But "supply chain management"? It seems that three months buying parts in
Shentzen, a month at the Port of Los Angeles, and an intership at Digi-Key or
Mouser would be the path to expertise in that.

~~~
grumblestumble
I spent eight years building software for global sourcing operations and
supply chain management. It's both incredibly dull and incredibly intricate.
As a result of designing and building the software, I have a fair amount of
expertise in the field, but I'd never admit it to anyone.

