
Why I Told CBS Corporation To Sue Me Without Wearing A Shirt - lionhearted
http://www.sebastianmarshall.com/?p=1293
======
xiaoma
I just watched the video at <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhVJl-OBEY4>. It's
an extended rant directed at his agent.

Summary: It seems he pissed off his publisher and his agent recommended he
find another publisher and pay back what the publisher forwarded him. He
doesn't think he'll be able to find another publisher or sell that many books,
so he took off his shirt and made a long video in which he continually
chastises his agent, rips up some of his money and rants about how the
industry is crumbling and the internet will destroy them.

~~~
lionhearted
Incorrect.

Correct summary: I think the publishing industry is a cartel that abuses their
editors, copy-editors, writers, authors, and so on. They're anti-modern, treat
people bad, and threaten them. I'm taking a principled stand against them, and
already walked away from $50,000 to do it.

If you disagree, just say so instead of being passive aggressive. Then real
dialog happens.

Edit: This has been upvoted, and then downvoted. Hold on a second - this guy
mis-summarizes in a snarky way instead of just saying what he thinks. He could
write, "He's arrogant" (perhaps) or "I disagree with his style" (your call) or
"I think publishing is awesome and in the right here" (you're crazy if you
think so) - but instead, he mis-summarizes what's going on. That's basically
the definition of passive-aggressive: Not saying what you really think, and
being hostile anyways.

I say, "Hey, say what you think and get a dialog going" (I addressed some
thoughtful points below, and answered them all) - and you upvote him with his
petty snark, and not the guy saying "Hey, if you disagree, say it and we can
discuss"? Wouldn't you like a more honest world? No?

~~~
xiaoma
Could you hold off on the calling me petty, snarky and passive-aggressive and
just explain which part of my two sentence summary was "incorrect"?

I don't know exactly what you were alluding to with your claim that I wasn't
saying what I really think, but I really was attempting to report what
happened in the video and summarize it. Here is what my summary said:

1) It seems he pissed off his publisher

2) His agent recommended he find another publisher and pay back what the
publisher forwarded him.

3) He doesn't think he'll be able to find another publisher or sell that many
books

4) He took off his shirt and made a long video in which he continually
chastises his agent

5) He rips up some of his money

6) He rants about how the industry is crumbling and will be destroyed by the
internet

I really did believe all six of those things happened in the video. Which was
I incorrect about, and what do you think I "really" believe but wouldn't
write?

~~~
lionhearted
> Could you hold off on the calling me petty, snarky and passive-aggressive

Well, I read it as petty, snarky, and passive-aggressive...

> and just explain which part of my two sentence summary was "incorrect"?

See, that's it. You could just say "My summary was accurate" if you thought so
- but it wasn't. You're getting caught up in trivial details, and leaving the
biggest parts out. And then you say, "Show me what's not true!!"

Again, it's just not a good style. You could do better.

------
MengYuanLong
Wow. So I read through his post, watched the video, and read the letter he
wrote to S&S. All the while, I couldn't help but feel I recognized/knew/ or
had read this guy's stuff before.

Somewhere around his mention of accomplishing super-human feats and
cyclothymia, I connected him to the "Stop Being a Fucking Joker" rant.

I look forward to reading additional commentary about op's post and Mr.
Marshall; but, I can't help but feel a distaste for his seemingly common use
of public shaming. Perhaps a more effective and less aggressive form of
communication would allow him to avoid these public spats. Then again, perhaps
it is all part of a very effective pr campaign. After all, I now know who this
guy is and am able to identify his writing.

~~~
lionhearted
These are great points, I'd like to address all of them -

First, yes.

Second, I've never released contact info or identifying details of anyone on
my side - an employee, investor, or partner. _Ever_. It's always obfuscated
pretty well - you have to protect people.

Third, everyone in an organization or the specific people will know, but
that's what you get with me. Radical honesty/transparency... it's awesome,
it's so liberating, and people are thoroughly informed that that's how it goes
with me. It's not for everyone, that's for sure

Fourth, I'm gentler/nicer to people who are quiet, etc - you obviously don't
hear about that... I try to communicate in a person's desired style, which is
aggressive for driver-type people, but I'm more creative/relaxed with
creatives, and very calm with calm people.

Fifth, the publishing industry's bullshit needs to end, and I need to air this
out publicly. It's the only leverage anyone has. Merlin Mann's "Cranking"
essay is what gave me confidence to stand up publicly, take a lot of abuse,
and look to improve things.

Thank you for sharing your honest thoughts here.

~~~
MengYuanLong
Thank you for your response. One thing I love about Hacker News is the
frequency that you get to engage in actual discussions with the authors. I am
somewhat weary/apprehensive of your style, but I must confess I find it rather
intoxicating.

I certainly plan to read through more of your postings and archives.

Most of all, I am glad to hear you adjust the message to the audience. I would
expect nothing less from a marketing savvy individual but it is still
comforting to read.

Good luck with your fight, it is unfortunate that so many industries continue
to cling to outdated business practices and models.

------
cperciva
Really hard to judge this without seeing the letter the author was sent. If
"repayment... more money than you even got" means pay back the advance plus
interest because the book is being cancelled, this seems entirely reasonable.
If it's "pay back the advance plus a million dollars because we feel like
being unreasonable", that's a completely different story of course.

But it's definitely pegging my crazyometer.

~~~
lionhearted
Read for yourself -

[http://www.sebastianmarshall.com/an-open-letter-to-simon-
and...](http://www.sebastianmarshall.com/an-open-letter-to-simon-and-
schuester-ceo-carolyn-reidy)

I think it was raw, honest, and necessary. Maybe too mean? But again, it was
100% true.

> If it's "pay back the advance plus a million dollars because we feel like
> being unreasonable", that's a completely different story of course.

Ah, you missed the context. My agent was telling me that if I don't shut up
and agree to terms immediately, I have to pay back _his_ share of the advance
to the publishing house. And I negotiated him up after he signed me from the
standard 15% to 25% because I like people to be well-played. He didn't address
when things were bad, forced bad terms in the contract to go through, didn't
negotiate in my favor, and now threatened me... the whole industry is scummed
up, man. People need to know what really happens - there's lots of stories
like this, but most get hushed up.

> But it's definitely pegging my crazyometer.

Yeah, mine too. But don't you have to be a little crazy to walk away from a
guaranteed $42,900 and fight a multi-billion dollar corporation with a massive
legal team?

------
mindcrime
Amazing, absolutely amazing. The world needs more people like this. I don't
even care if you agree or disagree with his fundamental position, or any
specific details of what he's talking about.... but I admire the man for the
willingness to do his own thing, to essentially tell a $MEGACORP to go fuck
themselves, and to spit in the eye of the haters.

A little less political correctness, a little more uninhibited behavior and a
healthy splash of controversy are always welcome, as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah, that delivery doesn't "work" for everybody, but some people need a
little shock-value to capture their attention. And some people are inspired by
seeing others show the willingness to step outside the perceived boundaries of
their world.

Go Sebastian!

~~~
DanBC
You know that "uninhibited behaviour" is a result of a serious mental health
problem (bipolar), right? Being mentally ill isn't really a lifestyle choice.

~~~
srl
He said "a little more". There's a difference between being knowingly
irrational from time to time and killing people on a whim.

~~~
DanBC
But people with bipolar don't get to choose whether it's a little more or a
lot more. That's the nature of the illness. You start with an exciting,
powerful, bit of extra oomph, which is narrowly balanced between useful extra
capacity to get stuff done on one side and out of control mania on the other.
This can last months or years. Sometimes followed by a crash; and the crashes
are nasty. (Obviously there are different forms of bipolar, and not all forms
follow that pattern.)

(Also, I don't get why you chose to link violent behaviour with mental health
problems. People with mental health problems are much more likely to be the
victims of violence than the perpetrators.)

------
asto
More like "Why I told CBS Corporation to sue me while not wearing a shirt".

When I read the title, I thought he wanted _them_ not to wear shirts when they
sued him!

Edit: changed "you" to "him" and "he" after zbowler pointed out that the
author is not the one who posted on HN

~~~
zbowling
He is just the author, not the editor.

~~~
zbowling
in reply to your edit, actually I was referring to the fact that he is an
author, and editors usually catch mistakes like that and not to the person
that posted to HN (although reading his twitter, timing would lead me to be
believe they are the same person).

------
GiraffeNecktie
I started reading the previous rant from the author - the letter to the CBS
president - and stopped at the point where he goes ballistic because his
'immediate' payment took six weeks. For a giant corporation to cut a check six
weeks sounds pretty immediate to me.

I feel sorry for his agent.

------
smtf
Here is a direct link to the youtube video. The video in page on Marshall's
site wouldn't load for me:

<http://youtu.be/hhVJl-OBEY4>

------
DanBC
We need cstross to explain what "the cartel" does - trawl through slush piles,
work with authors to produce manuscripts, edit, typeset, print, and distribute
books.

ebooks should make a lot of this easier and better and more efficient, but the
workflow and tools don't appear to be there yet. And Sturgeon's Law (90% of
everything is bullshit) is skewed to 98% with self-publishing.

It's interesting to note that Sebastian had this revelation after taking
$65,000 of Simon & Schuester's money in advance for a 50,000 - 60,000 word
book that he has not given them. (Weirdly, he's written 180,000 words, so why
he doesn't just send that and get it edited down to 50k is confusing.)

~~~
lionhearted
I only got paid the first 1/3rd, and walked away from the second 2/3rds after
we were almost complete. Writing that honest letter cost me $42,900.

Maybe I'm a jerk, maybe you want to defend how badly traditional publishing
treats their authors and staff (do you really think they can't do better?
_much_ better?) - but yeah, I walked away from around $50k here, and the
writing was already agreed by agent and editor to be excellent at that point.

Principled stand, man. Most people don't get it, can't get it. But I think
things need to improve, so I'm going to try to force things to improve.

~~~
cperciva
Quitting a job you hate is not "taking a principled stand". Taking a
principled stand would be if you said "I love working with you, but I can't do
it if you're going to continue to (print books on paper made from
unsustainable forestry practices | allow the Chinese government to censor
books | do other random evil stuff)".

The fact that you wrote a multi-page rant about how much you hate working with
them demonstrates that you're quitting for your own sake, not because of any
"principles".

~~~
lionhearted
> Quitting a job you hate is not "taking a principled stand".

I disagree. How much would the world change if everyone started doing it
tomorrow?

> you're quitting for your own sake, not because of any "principles".

We're already written. I told them they need to improve how they treat people,
audit and remove bureaucracy, and do better for _everyone_ to keep working
with me.

I didn't ask for any terms for myself. Just doing better in general,
modernizing, and treating everyone better. I probably could have gotten my
personal goals met easily with a personal letter, instead I'm in a public
fight.

You can be as cynical as you want, but I walked away from $50k, a solid
credential, and a lot of open doors to try to improve an important-but-badly-
flawed-industry.

Anyways. Keep your cynicism and skepticism. I admire it, actually, and the
open dialog. But if you change your mind later, will you write it publicly? A
lot more is going to happen going forwards.

------
zbowling
YouTube seems to be hating on this video. He only tears up about ~$60 that I
can tell. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhVJl-OBEY4#t=861s>

~~~
lionhearted
$50 USD, $70 USD worth of yen, $30 USD of euros, $16 USD of yuan, and I'm not
sure the exchange rates on Singapore or UAE.

It was well-spent.

------
srl
Thank you for doing this.

Not that I give a damn, quite frankly, about the publishing industry. (I
probably should, but I don't.) But the "shut up or we'll threaten to sue you -
and just the threat will ruin you for a decade" meme is popping up all over
the place (patent trolls, illegitimate MAFIAA takedowns taking years to
resolve, and so on), and too often people go the logical route, sit down, and
try to piece together their new life from under the boot. Every batshit-crazy
shirtless nut we have is one more good role model for how to deal with this
brand of thuggery.

So thanks, and keep it up.

~~~
DanBC
> _"shut up or we'll threaten to sue you - and just the threat will ruin you
> for a decade"_

That's not what's happening here. Perhaps you could point me to what's been
said that makes you think it is what's happening?

------
corkill
I don't understand, what would agents like Jim do if there was no "publishing
cartel"? What are they currently doing that they would continue doing?

I think not wearing a shirt makes it: -less likely I will share it -harder to
assign credibility (even though I have already read your work and know your
smart) -harder to focus on what your saying and finish video

These shirted videos are awesome <http://www.sebastianmarshall.com/my-
approach-to-business>

------
vonskippy
I'm pretty sure they have drugs for that now.

The manic part, not the douchebag part (I"m pretty sure you're beyond help on
that one).

