
Hiring a sales person... Any advice? - jakfrost
My small business (myself and 2 other co-owners) has reached the point where we no longer have the time to run our business and time to sell.  We've grown to the point where all 3 of us have critical jobs handling our existing clients that we just do not have the time to go out and sell anymore.  We've tried this once before and got burned pretty bad.  Our previous sales person sold himself wonderfully in the interviews, but when it came to selling our service he failed miserably.  No self-drive, no motivation, etc.  It's been about 8 months since we let him go, and we're now looking for another sales person.  Does anyone have any advice on hiring sales people so we don't get burned again?  We thought the last guy was going to be great due to the way he presented himself in the interviews.  Also, what do you fellow hn users suggest about pay? Should it be straight salary, or smaller salary plus commission, or just straight commission?<p>Any and all advice is greatly appreciated :)
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sehender
The best advice I can give you is to read Inc. Magazine columnist Norm
Brodsky's article titled "The Sales Commission Dilemma" at
<http://www.inc.com/magazine/20030501/25416.html>

As a top performing - and top earning - sales person for many years in Fortune
500 tech hardware, software, and services businesses, I can attest to the fact
that it's the company that usually creates their own problems, namely a coin-
operated sales force. I found it laughable when company XYZ paid members of
their sales team (including myself) 5X - even 10X - what they paid more
experienced engineers, product developers and even executives.

When looking to add a new sales professional, be sure and keep an eye out for
Norm's "Group Three" salespeople. They will add immeasurable value, insight
and personal equity into your business for many years to come.

~~~
jakfrost
I agree, the "Group Three" people would be the best for us. Now it's just a
matter of finding one. One thing that I had never thought about was sales
people leaving and taking customers with them. That thought had just never
entered my mind before. Great article, thanks for the link.

~~~
sehender
Many sales people will attempt to act as a middle man between their customers
and the company they work for. The reason they do this is because the first
questions most companies ask a potential sales hire is "who do you know?" or
"what's your rolodex look like?"

When the only relationship of trust is between the sales person and customer,
s/he is able to bring clients along with them to whatever new company they
migrate to...and show immediate success with new employers in doing so.

By creating a relationship of trust between you and your sales team, you are
able to break down barriers between the client, and create and more fruitful
long term relationship among all parties involved.

The other question you should ask is "why do sales people leave in the first
place?" Again, this gets back to the root of the problem, where most companies
create their own coin-operated sales teams. "Today's records become tomorrow's
quotas" is something that all top performing sales professionals are keenly
aware of.

If a sales professional hits 2X of their quota two or three years in a row,
and those record sales become next years quota, the resulting book of business
is unsustainable in the long term. Because of that, most top sales
professionals will stick around just as long as they are able to maximize
their earning potential. When the inevitable "down" year comes around, it's
time for them to reassess and start looking for a new opportunity.

By setting reasonable expecatations with your sales team year after year - by
that I mean set a quota that provides a reasonable rate of return on your
investment in their salary - you will no doubt create an environment that
"Group Three" sales professionals want to be a part of. Good luck.

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tdm911
From my experience, sales people need to have a large financial incentive to
get motivated, therefore small retainer, open ended commission.

Also, I've never liked flashy sales people. They may say all the right things,
but to me this isn't sales. Sales is relationships. Anyone can sell something
once and be unlikely to sell to the client again. A good salesperson will not
only sell the product, but also build the relationship. This is vital.

Finally, most sales people believe they can sell anything, irrespective of
what it is and therefore put no effort into learning their product. As mahmud
mentioned, product knowledge is key. If they aren't willing to learn your
product inside out, they aren't in it for the long run. Ask them about the
last product they sold and ask for details on it. If they can only name base
specs etc, they don't have the attention to detail required.

------
mahmud
This thread of mine died a horrible death yesterday :-(

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=772567>

I am on the sales side of things, building a portfolio of luxury products and
services to package as an offer for some clients of mine. Let me tell you
this, nothing motivates like an open ended commission. Name your base price
and tell salespeople they can put their own commission on top.

Last time we _hired_ a sales guy, he was a recently divorced, middle-aged
English man who spent the last 20 years selling financial products in Hong
Kong and Singapore. We wanted him to sell electronic gadgets: I kid you not,
the gray-hair sat down and did his homework, and in 3 weeks he knew the specs
of every gadget we had and those of our competition by heart. He did wonders
for us, but he pretty managed to self himself back into the financial
industry. People like those are easier to get when they're down on their luck.
Since I tended to do the sales myself and started delegating the programming,
when I had to choose between the two.

Also don't underestimate the power of network marketing. No, not the pyramid
schemes, but your network of friends, acquaintances and fellow HN users. If I
know you sell product X and you're charging $Y for it; if I like you as a
person and trust your ability to deliver, you can bet I will send someone your
way who will pay $Y+N dollars for a unit of X, and I expect N to end up in a
bank account of mine somewhere :-)

Put an email in your profile, for starters.

~~~
jakfrost
Thank you for the advice, and I just added my email address, I thought I had
already entered it, but was mistaken :)

~~~
anigbrowl
You were mistaken this time too, it's not there :) Mine is, and I'd like to
know what you're trying to sell. Maybe I can help, maybe I'll just have a few
lines of advice, maybe I can only wish you luck, but I won't waste your time.

~~~
jakfrost
I put it in my profile this time, let me know if it's visible now. Thanks.

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rishi
No one will sell better than you. What about hiring a project manager to help
you with your existing clients and you focus on sales?

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blrgeek
Don't get a senior sales-person. Get someone who can transition into handling
existing customers along with one or two of you. Then one or more of you can
focus on sales. Then get a junior person who will grow with you. Then once you
have two or three junior sales person, hire someone to manage them.

A new guy coming in at a senior level will, in all likelihood, try to sell
your service the way he sold whatever he was successful with in the past - and
fail to sell your service.

~~~
anigbrowl
Or worse, sell your company to someone, but make much more on the deal than
you do. [/machiavelli]

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ojbyrne
In my opinion, smaller salary (enough to survive, though it's tough to define
"survive") plus commission. Check references, look for a track record (if they
can sell themselves to you, they should also be able to sell themselves enough
to have substantial presence on Google). Lots of people these days hire people
initially on a contract basis for a probationary period, that might work for
you.

~~~
dpcan
Pay a salesman a base big enough to survive, and that's all he'll do. Survive.

You have to get someone who is prepared to sweat a little. Someone who is
self-motivated and ready to really thrive, not survive and die.

I'm not sure how coming up first in Google for your name has any bearing on
your ability to sell. If anything, it means you spend way too much time online
and not enough time with people actually selling.

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picasso81
My advice would be to put them on a trial period, and then decide to keep them
or let them go. Don't wait 8 months to figure out they're not the right fit.
Figure it out in 4 weeks, max.

Oh, and watch this before they start:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TROhlThs9qY>

~~~
feverishaaron
This depends on your sales cycle, actually. Some things (especially high tech)
take significantly longer that four weeks to sell.

~~~
dpcan
Only victims make excuses.

You can close a deal faster, get them to sign and pay, then work out the
details.

If you spend your life saying "that's how it's done", you'll never be in the
lead, you'll ALWAYS be doing what someone else has done before you.

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JacobAldridge
Firstly, understand who you're looking for. This needs to involve 3 key
factors - Cultural Match (the most critical - if they probably won't fit in,
then they definitely won't fit in), Skills (eg, can they sell, build a sales
process, manage a funnel or whatever), and Relationships (do you need them to
bring existing relationships or not).

Pay is somewhat dependent on your product and the quality of leads you have or
will continue to provide. Comm only won't support a sales person selling
enterprise software with a 12 month sales cycle, but may excite the right
person if you're providing pre-qualified leads for multiple bite-size products
with high profit margins. For the right person, be prepared to discuss their
immediate needs (salary) and their wants (how high the comm can realistically
go).

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jakfrost
First off I want to thank you all for your responses, I was not expecting so
much feedback in such a short amount of time. I will be taking some of these
comments into account for our meeting tomorrow, and hopefully will have time
to reply accordingly. As for now, I've got to crash so I can be ripe for the
meeting! Thanks again :)

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brianlash
Understand that money talks. There's nothing that will motivate a good
salesperson like cold hard cash.

So make your commissions generous and (allowing your is a service people can
believe in) you're going to find your guy. Make your commissions more than
generous and you're going to find your superstar.

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dpcan
A big commission is a big motivator, but doesn't make for a great salesman.

Finding a salesman YOU like may not be the way to go. But finding the salesman
your customer relates to is VERY important.

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daremon
This is also an interesting read:
<http://www.ericsink.com/bos/Closing_the_Gap_Part_1.html>

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cmos
put them heavy on commission. Trust them... just enough. A good salesperson
you'll never be really comfortable around. They are always scheming. And this,
in most cases, is a good thing for you, if they are truly hungry.

Let them make more money than you.. only if they exceed your expectations.
Always give a salesperson unlimited potential, after you are taken care of.

Just don't forget - the best salesperson will work you. You won't even know
it. That's the predicament.

