
How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan - gyanchawdhary
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-01-14/how-nissan-s-carlos-ghosn-was-smuggled-out-of-japan
======
mrtksn
The guy who works for the Turkish aviation company claims that he was
threatened with his family being harmed if he doesn't participate in the
operation. Considering that he is in jail for his participation, it is fair to
assume that he is not one of the well-paid-identity-protected people in the
operation and he did what he did to protect his family.

I am not very comfortable with glorifying this story, why exactly this guy's
life and family is more important than the airline professional's?

Although I would watch the movie about it, this whole ordeal feels wrong as it
resembles a story where justice is only for the wealthy and collateral damage
to unrelated people's lives is O.K. as if those people are not real humans but
NPC that just vanish when you're done with them.

~~~
Thorrez
Is it really glorifying it? The article doesn't exactly make Ghosn sound like
a hero to me.

> But as Ghosn’s speech went on, entropy took hold. He jumped rapidly from
> allegation to allegation at a pace that was difficult to follow even for
> observers versed in the latest Ghosniana. At one point he committed the No.
> 1 faux pas for foreigners in Japan, comparing his arrest to the attack on
> Pearl Harbor. There were flashes of arrogance, with Ghosn describing Nissan
> as “in the dirt” before he arrived and boasting that “20 books of management
> were written about me.” He devoted a significant stretch of time to a
> relatively minor issue—whether his comped use of a room at Versailles for
> his 2016 wedding celebration constituted a sort of kickback for Renault’s
> sponsorship of the palace—providing a convoluted explanation that he later
> summed up with, “If I had thought there had been an ethical problem, I
> wouldn’t have done it.”

~~~
sandoooo
What's a better world, one where some people has the means to defend
themselves against injustice, or one where nobody does but at least we're all
equal?

~~~
kick
He broke the law a bunch of times and then threatened a man's family to force
him to comply, and got the man locked up. This isn't fighting injustice, it's
causing injustice.

~~~
terryf
"He broke the law a bunch of times"

Kowing _if_ he did that is dependent on there being a court decision.

Look, I don't like that some probably innocent plane guy is in jail more than
anyone else but judging people just because they are rich is also wrong.

Also I'm pretty sure it wasn't Gosn that threatened him but rather the
security guy that put together the plan.

~~~
nihonde
He left Japan while the decision about his guilt was pending. He chose to work
in Japan, so he has to play by the same rules as the rest of us here. It’s a
law and order country. If the prosecutor wants you, you’re in big trouble. To
be honest, if he was Japanese, he most likely would have killed himself or at
least accepted that his life is over due to the shaming. That’s how it’s done
here. If you don’t like it, don’t play in this stadium.

~~~
terryf
Him leaving Japan is undoubtedly illegal and not excusable. However if I
understand the allegations correctly, he stole a bunch of money from a company
he was running. Putting him to jail for 10 years for stealing $5m from a
company that he just made $4bn for seems a bit harsh. Then again, Japan has
the right to decide that so my opinion is irrelevant.

~~~
nihonde
In Japan, stealing even a small amount is treated harshly. Recently, I recall
that a member of Abe’s cabinet lost his political career because his staff
mis-allocated a few hundred dollars worth of lunch receipts, which were
erroneously charged to public accounts. Some people see it as
disproportionate, but remember that you are expected to be even harsher in
judging yourself in these situations. There’s a whole secondary wave of shame
if you don’t one-up the required penalty voluntarily.

------
blackrock
Extradite him back to Japan. And arrest all that were accomplice to his
escape. When did these people think that they are above the law? They made a
mockery of the criminal justice system. And they once again proved that those
with money and power are above the law.

~~~
vxNsr
A criminal justice system that wins 100% of the cases it prosecutes makes a
mockery of the system. Same way a dictator who wins 100% of the vote.

~~~
blackrock
Criminal prosecutors (District Attorneys) in the United States have a near
100% conviction rate. This is because they selectively choose the cases they
want to prosecute.

By your logic, are you also saying the United States makes a mockery of the
criminal justice system?

So if you get convicted of a crime in the US, then you’d better pray to God
that it isn’t handled by the DA.

~~~
fla
The big difference AFAIK is that in USA, most of the cases end up with a deal
between parties. In Japan the notion of deal doesn't exist.

~~~
jacobush
It could be that Japan is lenient and does not prosecute cases which are not
cut and dry. I don't know.

Anyway I don't know how much you are helping the USA here in your argument. A
deal in the US is often like:

 _" Look, kid. With this deal, you get 1 year in prison. If we choose to
prosecute, you are looking at 30 years to life. Your call. Remember, you have
a [kid|mother|girlfriend]."_

Who would risk going up in court, even if you maybe didn't even do very much?
It's basic economics. The risk is too great that jury is going to hate you, no
matter what you did or didn't do. Better take the bargain and cut your losses.

~~~
raverbashing
The plea bargain for criminal cases (especially for people with reduced access
to defense attorneys) is certainly problematic.

Settlements, for civil cases, not so much, and I think it's an overall
positive.

------
ghostcluster
The Japanese nationalism angle is fascinating. He joined the French Renault
with Japanese Nissan and Mitsubishi. He claims that fears that he was
attempting to merge the companies further prompted the corruption charges in
Japan.

When I first read about this story, I thought it was an open and shut case
that Ghosn was guilty. But now I'd like to hear the full story behind the
initial accusations.

~~~
lkramer
It does seem to be very hard to be a foreign CEO in Japan, especially if
you're a bit flamboyant and are used to be treated as a superstar.

That said, Ghosn has been accused of very similar things elsewhere:
[https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-sec-nissan/nissan-
gho...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-sec-nissan/nissan-ghosn-settle-
sec-claims-over-undisclosed-compensation-idUSKBN1W81NY)

The real difference seems to be that he wasn't able to bribe his way out...

------
adventured
[http://archive.is/ph2Ys](http://archive.is/ph2Ys)

~~~
dannylandau
Thanks

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Larrikin
I don't understand why the media keeps writing these glowing stories about a
rich guy using his money to skip bail before a trial and also using that money
to make sure he is never tried for the crimes he has been accused of.

~~~
lvturner
It's also the kind of story that would (and probably will) make for a
blockbuster movie

~~~
Balgair
It's all just so slap-stick _dystopic_ and zeitgeisty. There's a very strong
_The Road to Gandolfo_ vibe.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_to_Gandolfo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_to_Gandolfo)

------
ryanlol
So what’s the deal with Japan supposedly regularly xraying luggage going onto
private jets? That’s not the norm in most of the world.

Generally you xray for security, not for customs purposes. Nobody is going to
bring a bomb on their own (or rented) private jet.

~~~
rv-de
I know that in Germany those security measures are only in place at large
public airports. Small airports where private jets are coming and going don't
check luggage. I think this problem exists in most countries. This is possibly
how Kashoggi's body got flown out or how sheiks return fled daughters and
wifes.

([https://www.tagesspiegel.de/gesellschaft/sicherheitsluecken-...](https://www.tagesspiegel.de/gesellschaft/sicherheitsluecken-
an-flugplaetzen-reiche-werden-nicht-kontrolliert/22852408.html))

~~~
ryanlol
>I think this problem exists in most countries.

Why is this a problem? The purported reason for checking luggage is security.
Checking luggage going on to private jets does not provide a similar security
benefit as it may for scheduled airline services.

For customs there are separate spot checks, but usually on arrival as it
usually doesn’t make much sense to be concerned about illegal exports.

Human trafficking is a separate issue, FBO staff and private jet operators
should be trained to combat such just like normal airlines do.

That training works, I’ve been on the receiving end of it as a suspected human
trafficker. (My friend told the gate agent to look at my phone for his ticket
because he doesn’t own one. We were both briefly detained until the airline
had someone talk to him in his native language and verify that he’s there by
his own free will)

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anonu
> would need extremely generous compensation for the risks involved, perhaps
> pushing the total cost to $15 million or more.

That's an insane number. And though Ghosn could probably afford that, the
cost/benefit would be off kilter.

Private Jet Flights were probably under $200k (source
[https://jettly.com/charter_cost_estimator](https://jettly.com/charter_cost_estimator))

Hiring a half dozen ex-marines to scout out an escape route, 3 months of
planning, maybe $1mm at most...

~~~
55555
You might spend a decade in prison or, failing that, you will probably never
be able to go to Japan ever again.

~~~
jasonjei
I doubt he’d be able to return to Japan even if he served his sentence. I
suspect he would be deported immediately after serving his prison term.

~~~
55555
I was referring to the people who smuggled him out.

