
The Milkman Model Returns, This Time for Shampoo and Haagen-Dazs - hhs
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-23/kroger-walgreens-join-p-g-unilever-in-reusable-container-launch
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kwhitefoot
The cost of returning containers whole, washing, inspecting, rejecting
breakages outweighs the benefits.

It would be much more efficient to use extremely lightweight containers that
can be crushed in a reverse vending machine in any supermarket.

That's how returnable bottles and cans work here in Norway (and several other
European and Scandinavian countries). At the moment it only covers drinks
containers but that is probably because they are the only ones that pose a
major littering problem.

See [https://www.tomra.com/en/collection/reverse-
vending](https://www.tomra.com/en/collection/reverse-vending)

This way the energy cost of returning the containers is minimised and the
returned material is suitable for immediate, industrial scale, automated
recycling.

But of course that doesn't allow the producer to use just any container so it
limits their branding opportunities.

Edit: removed repeated link.

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martokus
Yeah but it locks you in. Another example of how the hysteria around climate
change is exploited by companies for profit. Once you buy Tide washing liquid
in a returnable container there's a higher cost barrier switching to another
brand. Unless they standardize the packaging this is a pure profit move.

On a broader note I often wonder if all the talk about climate change and
plastics is not fueled by corporations ready to exploit it. I just cannot
believe that a topic can suddenly become so big without an agenda behind it.

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Pfhreak
I'm here for this. The less plastic garbage we pump out, the better. Why
packaging is considered single use is beyond me.

Edit: Even better if it can be optimized for shipping, but I know not
everything packages into a cube shape easily.

~~~
thaumasiotes
> Why packaging is considered single use is beyond me.

Disease.

~~~
uxp100
There was an interesting article (I think?), I read somewhere (maybe linked to
from here?) about all the disease spread by ice cream sandwiches in the 1910s.
Individually wrapped single use packaging really was a response to diseases
killing many children.

~~~
bobbiechen
I did find this interesting article [1] that might fit your description. It
gives some history around ice cream poisonings, Victor Vaughan, and the
advancement of bacteriology:

 _For instance, prior to the development of the ice cream cone, street vendors
often served their ice cream in reusable glass dishes. Often made of thick
glass to create the appearance that they contained more ice cream than they
actually did, these “penny licks” were simply wiped out and reused rather than
being washed.26 Later in the century the more hygienic “hokey-pokey”—an
individual serving of ice cream wrapped in paper—became popular.27 Besides
avoiding the unsanitary “penny lick,” the hokey-pokey also discouraged the
notorious practice of refreezing unsold melted ice cream and serving it to
unsuspecting customers. As melted ice cream provided an ideal environment for
the reproduction of bacteria, this noxious product surely caused many food
poisoning cases._

[1]
[https://www.jstor.org/stable/26305867](https://www.jstor.org/stable/26305867)

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mogadsheu
I believe this is less of a technology issue than a culture/adoption issue,
and if widely adopted, could really improve consumer efficiency.

The idea makes plenty of sense from both a producer and a consumer standpoint.
Packaging, especially when not automated, accounts for a significant portion
of the cost of goods for many basic goods.

You already see this in grocery stores: the deli counter and often the
nuts/grains sections, and I'd argue the produce section use minimal packaging.
Expanding this to other sections seems like a pretty straightforward to reduce
deadweight, if consumers adopt the practice.

~~~
RubberSoul
I wish grocery stores near me had better bulk goods sections. I notice the
ones that exist are currently presented as upscale choices, and are often more
expensive than the packaged goods.

I think consumers will widely adopt the practice when it lowers, or at least
doesn't increase, their grocery bill.

~~~
masonic
Bulk foods section are a disease vector, though. I see both unattended kids
_and adults_ "grazing" in the bulk section of stores like Sprouts, hand to bin
to mouth to hand to bin, repeat across the spectrum of bulk goodies.

I've seen kids wet their fingers in their mouths and "dip" them into bins as
their parents watch, unconcerned.

~~~
rubberpoliceman
On their way to the store, most bulk products have been expectorated on by a
number of sweaty men in dirty boots. It's not obvious to me how packaging
would lower that number.

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galago
This is an interesting concern for the big companies because a lot of bulk
grocery items in the US are generic. Like, when I buy bulk peanuts they're
just peanuts, not Planters™ peanuts. I've noticed that a grocery store near me
house has laundry and dish soap in bulk dispensers, which has a brand on it,
but I think the containers are unbranded. This would be a big problem if Tide™
were sold that way. Another problem for the big companies is keeping people
from putting other brands in the nice reusable packages.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
Bulk dispensers are already the standard in commercial/institutional settings.
Motor oil often comes in boxes (like boxed wine) now.

~~~
amper5and
My mechanic gets his motor oil in an oil drum to which he attaches a hand pump
to dispense it.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
Yeah, you can still get 1gal and 5qg jugs, 5gal buckets and 55gal drums but
boxes are becoming more common.

For example:

[https://www.grainger.com/product/VALVOLINE-Synthetic-
Blend-E...](https://www.grainger.com/product/VALVOLINE-Synthetic-Blend-Engine-
Oil-453C19)

------
dsfyu404ed
There's enough margin in premium consumables to cater to customer whims like
this.

Until the value priced product lines and retailers start doing this it's not
gonna make a dent whatsoever in plastic usage. This is a nice step but the
model is not useful yet because it only works at the top of the market.

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nagVenkat
There are some Whole Foods in New Jersey where you can buy milk and chocolate
milk in glass containers. They cost a dollar or two more but get the
difference back when you return the glass bottle. The actual price of the
contents is pretty close to the milk available in plastic containers. Pretty
close to what loop is doing

~~~
frutiger
Ronnybrook Dairy sells milk and milk products in thick glass bottles which you
can return and get the 2 dollars back.

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ducttape12
Something like this really could have an impact on reducing garbage. Combine
this with more and more people switching to grocery delivery and it could
actually work!

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chaostheory
Loop ([https://loopstore.com](https://loopstore.com)) is by Terracycle? I'm
glad they're still doing well after their natural fertilizer lawsuit fight
with Scotts Miracle-Gro.

Too bad this is only available in a few states in the North East.

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jetrink
Ha, I was just wondering about this recently. It's great to see that someone
is exploring this idea.

1\. [https://i.imgur.com/MYQ1uTl.png](https://i.imgur.com/MYQ1uTl.png)

~~~
jaggederest
Agreed. I've been thinking that we need a universal deposit system for
disposable items. Tag, collect a deposit, and make companies responsible for
end-to-end managing the stream of waste their products create.

There was an interesting thread on reddit just recently that is related:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/brt43t/scientist...](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/brt43t/scientists_discover_china_has_been_secretly/eoh5foy/?context=3)

~~~
maxerickson
It would be simpler to just have an environment tax.

Setting the tax rates is roughly equivalent to the problem of setting
reasonable and effective deposits, but everything else is simpler.

~~~
Joakal
Not really that simple. Have to ensure correct taxation and collection of $2
bottle. The tax could also be misused (what, you think it would go 100% to
disposing?)

It would be simpler to make producers take back non recyclable/biodegradable
waste. Why should excessive waste issues be imposed on government or people
instead of the producers?

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honkycat
Every piece of plastic you have ever encountered still exists somewhere. Think
about that. Humans create a STAGGERING amount of trash and we need to stop.

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SilasX
Why is Bloomberg using the subject's propaganda photos for their article?

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ghaff
So staged photos shot by Bloomberg would add sufficient value to the article
to lead you to pay more? (Or, for that matter, would add any real editorial
value at all?)

~~~
SilasX
It doesn't need staged photos either. But yes, they would be better in terms
of not being deliberately set up to make the product look good (although often
newspapers do that too).

~~~
ghaff
SEO is helped by having graphics with articles whether or not they add
editorial value. Whether it's generic graphics or stock/staged photos. So good
luck convincing people not to use cheap photos/graphics for stories.

