

America Has Become Too European - anamax
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,715339,00.html

======
zeteo
I can't really evaluate the article on economic terms, but it fails miserably
in its knowledge of history. If we are to believe prof. Straubhaar, in the
20th century "[t]he United States rose rapidly from virtually nothing to
become the most politically powerful and economically strongest country in the
world", by following the economics of some fuzzily defined American Way where
"every man was responsible for himself -- in good times and bad. No one could
count on government assistance".

Then the good professor argues for a return to these good old times. The
historical reality begs to differ. Far from being "virtually nothing", the US
manufacturing output was the first in the world as early as 1890:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_history_of_the_United_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_history_of_the_United_States#The_Gilded_Age:_1865.E2.80.931900)

This economic growth was, by the way, happening behind some pretty heavy
protectionist measures (initiated by none other than Lincoln):

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariff_in_American_history#Civi...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariff_in_American_history#Civil_War_protective_policy.2C_1861-1913)

But maybe this economics professor wasn't referring to economic output? Let's
look at the principles that guided Franklin Delano Roosevelt, under whose
leadership the US became acknowledged as a military superpower as well:

"Throughout the nation men and women, forgotten in the political philosophy of
the Government, look to us here for guidance and for more equitable
opportunity to share in the distribution of national wealth"

A complete opposite from the article's description of an ideology where "no
one could count on government assistance"!

In conclusion, the article's premises are based on a very shaky foundation and
expose a shocking ignorance (for an economics professor, at least) of US
history. And if the foundation is bad, I don't think the rest of the edifice
hold up very well either.

~~~
Andrew_Quentin
All your points are fine, except for one. The article does not seek to
enlighten or inform, but instead it seeks to influence, by whatever mean, for
whatever reason.

Thus the author is in no way to blame, but those in this community who up
voted it.

~~~
zeteo
Seeking to influence is not an excuse for peddling falsehoods.

------
_delirium
I suppose one doesn't actually need first-hand experience to have such an
opinion, but it _is_ somehow a little bit surreal to read a call for "A Return
to Traditional American Virtues" written by a Swiss professor who works in
Germany. It'd be like reading an American professor who'd never lived in
Switzerland pontificating on how the Swiss need to return to their core
values.

It's a particularly nice juxtaposition in this case, because one traditional
American value is not listening to what European intellectuals say. ;-)

~~~
enjo
Not to mention how poorly cited the whole thing is (like the dubious
assessment that unemployment is twice the stated rate).

~~~
yummyfajitas
_(like the dubious assessment that unemployment is twice the stated rate)._

I've actually seen this claim made a lot, both in the media and on blogs. The
basis for that claim is that the speaker believes U6 rather than U3 should be
the official unemployment rate, and U6 is typically about double U3.

[edit: See joe_the_user's post, which was submitted as I was writing this.]

------
Entlin
For people who like to read the original, here's the german version:

"Amerikas europäische Krankheit" -
[http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/0,1518,714521,00.h...](http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/0,1518,714521,00.html)

------
nickpinkston
His thesis of structural problems being a large part of the crisis (rather
than simple systemic risk) is probably true though. The "fire" instead of
"hire and fire" partially reflects that the unemployed aren't useful to
employers. Yes, a sizable chunk is due to lower production due to the
recession.

Remember how this is the "man-cession"? This means construction and
manufacturing. Productivity is up (and not only because people work harder to
not lose jobs) due to a well-needed gutting due to having a good excuse. This
is some painful creative destruction.

Instead of pouring money out piecemeal, stimulus needs to address the
structural issues: modernizing the workforce/education system, rearranging
(cut/add) regulations, and useful infrastructure (e.g. not just fixing
potholes).

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zyb09
What has the FED buying US Treasury securities to do with Europe? That's the
opposite of what Europe is doing to handle the economic crisis. The ECB is
defiantly not buying German securities or anything like this. Health care and
welfare are completely different topics and don't have anything to do with the
unemployment rate or economic growth, yet he mentioned them as example of how
America became too European and that's supposed to have caused all these
problems.

If the FEDs decision is the right one is another discussion, but the way he
used Europe in this article to convey his point doesn't make much sense.

~~~
Andrew_Quentin
He mentioned healthcare also. Thus the way he is using europe is possibly to
contrast between a hardcore capitalist system like the US and a more soft
capitalist system like europe.

------
ugh
I’m confused, didn’t European nations have smaller stimulus programs compared
to the United States? Isn’t he consequently arguing for the US to become more
European in solving this crisis?

~~~
kthanx
The funnt thing is that Germany had a BIGGER stimulus than the US. Look at the
data of real government consumption of goods and services, it has risen more
in “austerity” Germany than in the United States.

Quarter Gemany US

2007Q4 100.0 100.0

2008Q1 100.4 100.6

2008Q2 101.5 100.8

2008Q3 101.7 102.2

2008Q4 102.5 102.9

2009Q1 103.6 102.5

2009Q2 104.2 103.8

2009Q3 105.1 104.0

2009Q4 104.8 103.9

2010Q1 106.9 103.8

2010Q2 107.3 104.5

Source: [http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/28/angela-and-
the-f...](http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/28/angela-and-the-fifty-
hoovers/)

~~~
zyb09
But you have to consider that government spending in Germany is about 280
billion euros, while the US budget is at 3.8 trillion. It's a larger country
and all, but these number are really out of proportion.

~~~
kthanx
German taxes as a percentage of GDP is 39.3%. The US number is 28.2%.
Government income should be about the same as government expenditures, so that
means that the German stimulus was even bigger than the number in my previous
comment.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenu...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP)

------
Miserlou57
A good read, but it seems to idealize how America rose to such strength and
gloss over how many serious problems came with it and the subsequent need for
government to step in and protect (Labor laws, EPA, FDA, SEC, the list goes
on...)

------
abrown28
without reading the article I will say: a) this is too obvious to need voicing
b) it ain't hacker news

~~~
i80and
Judging an article without reading it is also not Hacker News.

~~~
Andrew_Quentin
Really?

 _Off-Topic: Most stories about politics_

I think the title conveys possibly well that it is about politics, hence no
need to read the article.

~~~
mkr-hn
If the community decides that it falls into the "most stories" side, it'll
fall off and be forgotten.

~~~
DougBTX
All stories fall off and get forgotten. Or receive negative comments for being
"duplicates".

------
ancornwell
I couldn't agree more. There was an article in the WSJ last week about the
benefits of sleeping on the job. I'm sure it was read because it seriously
clashes with the NY state of mind, but I saw some pretty supportive comments
on Twitter from Californians and New Yorkers alike. I would never want my
office to be in France where you get to work at 11, go to lunch and have a few
bottles of wine from 12-4, and then take off at 5. I'm glad Sarkozy raised the
retirement age to 62 though. I just don't want a culture swap, but it looks to
be one of the many directions our melting pot could take. My french roommate
used to put the eggs in the cupboard! Crazy!

If I saw one of my employees put the eggs in the cupboard and then take a nap
in my New York office, my brain would implode.

I'm not suggesting to operate like a sweatshop and I'm aware that
manufacturing power in the United States is quite volatile right now, but even
when people focus on those right-brain activities, the earth still spins and
capitalism still exists. Some of my best work is produced when my fatigue
becomes delusion :D

~~~
ugh
You are funny.

I must say, those French are damn impressive. They work only ten hours a week
(probably eight because – honestly – you just know that they will take fridays
off) and still manage to be the fifth largest economy in the world. Isn’t that
something we all should try to imitate, not scoff at?

~~~
ancornwell
Sarkozy is trying to change social opinion of "careers" and "work" in France
to keep pace with other countries. France is a very old country which also
makes it even harder to bring change. I think there are a lot of people in
France who pick up the slack for others. Kind of like the Israel...

If there is a country we should imitate, I think it would be Israel. Now
that's ambition, dedication, and of course, resilience. I think Tel Aviv has
the highest concentration of tech startups in the world also.

Why would you think French people only work ten hours per week? My French
roommate never understood sarcasm either. He also kept putting the damn eggs
in the cupboard even after I told him he would get sick.

~~~
ugh
Pssst, the stylistic device in your comment is called hyperbole, the one in
mine is called sarcasm.

