
PyPy 5.0 Released - mattip
http://morepypy.blogspot.com/2016/03/pypy-50-released.html
======
fijal
Because everyone asked, I gonna clear a few things about PyPy3 support, please
keep the comments civil.

* We are not against working on Python 3 - it just happens that there is a lot of interest these days in things like numerics, warmup improvements and C extensions that we want to focus on.

* We essentially exhausted Py3k pot. I personally think it delivered what it promised, despite being short on the funding goals. It's crazy what level of expectations people have with crowdfunding - it's really difficult to find someone to deliver a big, multi-year project for 60k, even outside the states.

* We're closely watching py3k adoption - since we're always a few releases behind, we'll probably do a 3.5 after CPython 3.6 is out, but it all depends on good will of volunteers, who I have no control over.

* Money can easily change focus, but it would need to be a significant enough amount to actually commit to delivering a fast and compliant PyPy 3.5, not 5 or 10k

I hope this clear some things up, those opinions are my own and not
necesarilly represent everybody in the pypy project

EDIT: there is just over 8k USD left in the py3k pot. At $60 USD/h (official
SFC rate) it's 146h. That's not enough to even fix the inefficiencies in the
current version. We hope to use it to get to version 3.3

~~~
sirn
If I want to help on PyPy3, is there any sort of mentored bugs or good first
bug (similar to Mozilla's) that a beginner could get started on? I would love
to contribute, but never really got to do so since I don't know where to
start.

~~~
pjenvey
Come by the PyPy IRC channel and ask

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JelteF
I think its a real shame that pypy3 is not updated with the new releases of
pypy. It is still on 2.4.0.

I understand that the major sponsors of PyPy are interested in the python 2.7,
but not updating it for 1.5 years seems like they have abandoned it.

~~~
fijal
I know it does sound a bit bad, but Python 3 is only __now __catching up. The
old PyPy3 that we have is a bit terrible, because it 's both old (3.2 only)
and slow. Serious push would be necessary in order to get it up to 3.5 and fix
the performance problems that we're just not willing to do right now. Once the
commercial world catches up to python 3, we will probably too, but people
using PyPy are not people who are getting excited to move to python 3, for the
most part

~~~
JelteF
I think the last sentence of you really also is in part its own cause. People
excited about Python 3, are not using PyPy since it seems like it is not
maintained at all.

At least adding the same improvements that were added to the 2.7 interpreter
would put a bit of confidence in that. Most libraries also support up until
CPython3.3, which as far as I know is mostly caused by the fact that the "u"
string prefix is allowed again. So just adding that and keeping the core up to
date with the PyPy2.7 releases would make it usable.

This could very well inspire other devs to add support for the other features
that they are missing from later releases CPython3 releases.

~~~
fijal
No, it runs deeper than that. You're mostly reaching out for pypy in case
you're running into the wall with performance, one way or another. In that
situation the LAST thing you want to do is to move to another language that
does not give you answers to that performance problems. People are moving to
go, yes, but not to python 3 in that case.

~~~
thomasahle
But then there are the people who've only started their codebases within the
last five years, and so have been Python 3 all along.

~~~
fijal
Right. And those people are slowly getting to the problems that pypy
potentially solves. We are focusing so far on widening the base of what we do,
but if there is enough interest, we'll work on pypy3.

~~~
cookiecaper
Python3 is going to be the default Python in Ubuntu next month. Do you
anticipate that having any effect on your perceived user base?

FWIW, almost all of the applications I've written in Python over the past 4
years have been Py3. I'd like to use PyPy on them.

~~~
jjawssd
He doesn't care because that isn't where the money is coming from

~~~
stock_toaster
It doesn't sound like just money. It sounded like he was saying that he
doesn't care because there is comparatively little (historic and current)
demand for PYPY3.

~~~
toyg
From a certain perspective, money == demand.

I don't blame him, pypy has always had a money problem (hence crowdfunding etc
etc).

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AdamN
I'd like to use PyPy but all of my new projects are Python3.

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wyldfire
Well, great job, team!

I get a free speedup for my non-numpy/scipy projects and that's flipping
awesome. The 2.7 and 3.2 support is just fine for my needs. Your focus on the
C API emulation seems totally appropriate to me.

If numpy and friends worked well on pypy, IMO there'd be little reason left to
use CPython.

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yahyaheee
Pypy is really cool, and I hope it becomes the default interpreter down the
road. However, little py3 support makes me edge away from it for now.
Hopefully, all pythons will merge in the near future

~~~
ludamad
The versions cant really merge, there's runtime differences and you don't want
to bloat with two of everything

~~~
ZenoArrow
I think the GP could be referring to PyPy becoming a replacement for CPython
(or incorporated into CPython) as the canonical Python interpreter. It could
theoretically happen after for a major release, and it could work out to be
beneficial, though I think it's quite some time away if it happens at all.

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psandersen
Good to see PyPy progressing.

I mainly use Scikit Learn, theano, numpy and pandas; is PyPy able to work with
the above, and likely to give any speedups at this stage?

~~~
tavert
Numpy support is improving but incomplete, see
[http://morepypy.blogspot.com/2015/02/linalg-support-in-
pypyn...](http://morepypy.blogspot.com/2015/02/linalg-support-in-
pypynumpy.html) \- and the performance is not going to be any better than
stock numpy with CPython. If your code spends all its time in C extensions,
PyPy doesn't buy you anything since its API compatibility layer is slow and
incomplete. You should probably look into Julia.

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aleksi
Why major version change, why 5.0 after 4.0.1?

~~~
mattip
We (PyPy release manager here) adopted a release policy where we update the
major version about every three months. Bug fixes, if needed, will be 5.0.1,
and 5.1 should be released in a month or so

~~~
amenod
Oh no, not Chrome versioning again... And this time not even on an app. :(

What you're saying is that major number will change with time, not based on
some groundbreaking updates. How am I supposed to know if I should be careful
when upgrading from version 12 to version 14? Were there massive changes in
between? All I know now is that half a year has gone by since last time I
updated. Why would I care about that? Yeah, sure, I can read changelog for
_every_ _single_ _library_ _and_ _tool_... Really? </rant>

EDIT: other than that, congrats on a new release. ;)

~~~
jjawssd
[http://semver.org/](http://semver.org/)

Summary

Given a version number MAJOR.MINOR.PATCH, increment the:

MAJOR version when you make incompatible API changes, MINOR version when you
add functionality in a backwards-compatible manner, and PATCH version when you
make backwards-compatible bug fixes.

~~~
takeda
That's what amenod was referring to. The current versioning model is different
than semantic versioning model that everyone is used to.

Personally I really hate how everyone (especially web browsers) blindly copies
what Google comes up with, without putting much thought into it, whether it is
UI changes, versioning or behavior changes.

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Animats
What version of CPython does this match? The announcement doesn't say.

~~~
maxerickson
It's 2.7. They had an announcement about the new versioning last fall:

[http://morepypy.blogspot.com/2015/10/pypy-400-released-
jit-w...](http://morepypy.blogspot.com/2015/10/pypy-400-released-jit-with-
simd.html)

Also see fijal (one of the core pypy devs) commenting in this thread about the
pypy devs not putting much work into supporting Python 3 right now.

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BuckRogers
Wow, a ton of crying here on Python3 support. Short sweet answer: patches
welcome. Get to work. Or, donate your money to the authors so they'll do it
for you.

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rafinha
no numpy, not interested ... will check again next version.

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gaze
How is numpy doing? How about the sandbox?

