
Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts - Clepsydra
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/apr/29/whale-with-harness-could-be-russian-weapon-say-norwegian-experts
======
lm28469
Have you seen the harness ? [0]

You might be able to strap a gps or a camera on it, but a weapon ?! What's up
with all the articles "russia/china bad" popping up recently ?

> In 1980s Soviet Russia, a programme saw dolphins recruited for military
> training

Yeah, just like any nation with enough defence budget. Dolphins/sea lions [1],
dogs, rats [2], &c. are used all the time.

[0] [https://www.sciencealert.com/mysterious-whale-wearing-
strang...](https://www.sciencealert.com/mysterious-whale-wearing-strange-
harness-suspected-of-being-russian-operative)

[1] [https://www.businessinsider.com/5-animals-that-serve-in-
the-...](https://www.businessinsider.com/5-animals-that-serve-in-the-us-
military-2015-7?IR=T)

[2] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APOPO](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APOPO)

~~~
_iyig
Well, Russia recently invaded a European country, assassinated several people
in the U.K., got caught using spies to infiltrate U.S. political parties,
hacked the emails of a U.S. presidential candidate while meeting secretly with
her opponent (who may or may not be massively in the Russian government’s
debt), and resumed air attack drills on NATO countries. So, a lot of English-
speaking people see Russia as the “bad guy” right now.

~~~
basetop
I'd stopped consuming so much cable news, it can rot your brain. And why did
you edit out "China's human rights may be even worse" from your comment?
That's certainly something that is up for debate.

"English-speaking people"? What's that?

Russia does bad things. China does bad things. The EU does bad things. We do
bad things. What's strange is the sudden hysteria and relentless propaganda
directed towards china and russia in particular. It's not like Russia and
China were saints before.

~~~
saiya-jin
We in Europe have a very personal stake in this. The chance of China ever
invading us is minuscule bordering to none, the same can't be said for Russia.

They've already done it in the past numerous times - I know damn well since I
come from former Czechoslovakia. I have no kind word for a russians due to
this, my parents and their whole generation have pretty horrible stories to
tell and effects of their meddling and bloody direct invasion in 1968 are
still felt these days. And they've done it recently (and still doing it while
LOLing like nothing is happening) with Ukraine.

You don't need to consume cable news at all, I've stopped some 15 years ago.
This is plain old history.

~~~
azangru
> They've already done it in the past numerous times - I know damn well since
> I come from former Czechoslovakia.

Czechoslovakia was a part of the Soviet Bloc, wasn't it? During the time of
Cold War? With Soviet Union being, in effect the ruling center of the bloc and
considering the rest of the Soviet countries its sphere of influence? I mean,
it doesn't justify what Soviet Union did then, but what happened to
Czechoslovakia couldn't have happened to France, or Sweden, or the UK.

Things are completely different now. Yes, even now, with the militaristic
rhetoric on both sides rising to the Cold War-era level. There is no Soviet
bloc. Russia is reduced in its ambitions to the level of a minor regional
power.

As for Ukraine, it has the misfortune of sharing a border and a lot of common
history with Russia; so much so that Russia still considers it its sphere of
interest. With Western Europe things are completely different. Russia may have
squabbles with Ukraine or perhaps even with Baltic states (unlikely, because
they are members of NATO), but to conclude from that that other European
countries are under the risk of Russian invasion is to misrepresent reality, I
believe.

~~~
saiya-jin
> Czechoslovakia was a part of the Soviet Bloc, wasn't it?

Nope, we were a sovereign country, with socialistic/communistic government,
but completely standalone. Same for Poland, Hungary, Romania etc.

~~~
azangru
Oh, it certainly wasn't part of the Soviet Union, if that's what you are
referring to, but wasn't it part of some political configuration that made it
possible for the Soviet Union to treat it as a satellite state and as a
battleground of communist ideology against western democracy? Wikipedia, in
the article on Soviet-Czechoslovakian relations[0], states that: "After
February 1948 Czechoslovakia was firmly set into the Soviet sphere of
influence."

Again, I am not arguing from any ethical perspective; I am not saying that the
USSR had the right to do what it did; I am merely saying that a bit
disingenuous to suggest that Western European countries, including modern-day
Czech Republic or Poland, are under any risk of Russian invasion. Ukraine
might be; but even that doesn't seem all that likely.

[0] -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czechoslovakia%E2%80%93Soviet_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czechoslovakia%E2%80%93Soviet_Union_relations)

~~~
CharlesColeman
> I am merely saying that a bit disingenuous to suggest that...countries...are
> under any risk of Russian invasion. Ukraine might be; but even that doesn't
> seem all that likely.

The risk of Russia invading the Ukraine is 100%, because _it already
happened._ The Russians even annexed part of it, to worldwide condemnation.

~~~
azangru
> The risk of Russia invading the Ukraine is 100%, because it already
> happened. The Russians even annexed part of it, to worldwide condemnation.

Oh, I meant in the future. The risk of lightning striking the same house, as
it were. Admitting a historically conflicted piece of territory whose
population at the time is reported to have been overwhelmingly pro-russian and
to have felt slighted by the anti-russian revolutionary government, and which
even went through the perfunctory motions of a referendum to add some
semblance of legitimacy to the process, is a fairly confusing case, for which,
of course, Russia has its own exculpatory narrative. I was thinking of
something more clear-cut. A declaration of war, an open military
confrontation, that sort of thing.

------
brudgers
Related, military dolphins,
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_dolphin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_dolphin)

------
latchkey
I used to scuba dive a lot in the kelp beds off of Point Loma, San Diego in
the early 90's. One day while floating on the top of the water with my buddy
after a dive, a military boat drives by really fast. All the sudden, I'm
lifted and spun around by a huge push of water. Scared me silly, I will never
forget it. After a moment, I realized it was a couple of trained dolphins
following the boat and messing with me. My buddy couldn't stop laughing at me.

------
shaki-dora
This is the sort of totally obvious prisoner’s dilemma that just a tiny bit of
international cooperation could easily avoid, if only Russia (and now the US)
had not gone down the road of pseudo-macho brutalism in politics.

With the beluga cat now out of the bag, any maritime conflict will be liable
to justify the wholesale slaughter of large marine mammals, just as 60 years
of preservation efforts have been showing some good results, and incidentally
proving that international cooperation actually can work.

On the plus side, nothing was gained. Whales as a weapons, or reconnaissance,
platform may have worked as a tactical surprise. But it is useless once it’s
known. Killing all the whales in the Atlantic is a day’s worth of fun for
bored sailors.

Instead, everyone could have just played солитер all day in the safe knowledge
that they are doing the best work of their life.

------
stunt
Wikipedia page about trained animals for military:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_animal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_animal)

While there are some efforts to keep mammals away from wars specially when it
comes to sea creatures. But sadly no one cares about dogs and horses that are
being used and trained.

------
nwmcsween
The comments here are getting border line conspiracy theory crazy, its
honestly sad to see that people think the invasion of another country was
justified (Ukraine) and 'mass media' lied about it all.

------
Clepsydra
The removal of the harness:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYXOPZfuOow](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYXOPZfuOow)

~~~
Chris_Chambers
That video does not show the removal of the harness.

~~~
CharlesColeman
> That video does not show the removal of the harness.

This article includes that video and also pics of the removed harness.
Apparently the buckle is marked with the brand "Equipment St. (logo)
Petersburg."

[https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/27716/did-this-
beluga-...](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/27716/did-this-beluga-whale-
escape-from-a-russian-navy-training-program)

------
mothsonasloth
Video of Russian Navy Seals (source by RupTly)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-unYZ6ltfI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-unYZ6ltfI)

------
grandinj
Or it could be a loose piece of harness floating around the sea that the whale
got trapped in.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebra_(medicine)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebra_\(medicine\))

~~~
StavrosK
Then it got trapped in it pretty damn neatly, with one part behind the fun and
one on its "neck". It's like my dog getting randomly tangled in its chest
harness with the legs in the right position.

~~~
Deutschland
How many whale-sized harnesses are just floating around in the sea anyway?

~~~
CharlesColeman
> How many whale-sized harnesses are just floating around in the sea anyway?

Quite a lot actually. RT was just showing a documentary about the undersea
harness plants of Sweden. Apparently they are naturally made of nylon and
float up from from the sea floor and attach to Beluga wales to spread their
seeds throughout the sea. Absolutely nothing to do with Russia. /s

------
bayareanative
Oh noes... not more Russiagate conspiracy theories. Chris Hedges and Aaron
Mate were just on with an American RT host Rick Sanchez talking about the
reasons for this sort of theme. I also think it feeds into rising nationalism
that (inevitably?) lead to things like civil war and world wars.

[https://youtu.be/b1wlheHxuLY](https://youtu.be/b1wlheHxuLY)

~~~
pavlov
Don't forget that Russia Today is part of a deliberate effort to feed that
rising nationalism in Western countries. Undermining international
collaboration is the foundation of Putin's long-term geopolitical game.

