
Are We Living in a Post-Happiness World? - laurex
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/28/sunday-review/joy-happiness-life.html
======
seibelj
Family, friends, health, purpose. Even without the latest gadgets and being a
millionaire, if you have the love of family and friends you can find
happiness. I guarantee you won’t find happiness by reading the NYT all day and
getting worked up.

~~~
HNLurker2
Being a millionaire won't make you happy. Now a billionaire

~~~
seppin
> Now a billionaire

Enough to have people around you always to absorb your manic-ness to feel a
little better. Works for the president

------
PinkMilkshake
_SPOILERS BELOW_ (Love, Death and Robots)

There's an episode of Love, Death and Robots called Zima Blue, where a robot
that scrubs the tiles on the side of a swimming pool is progressively upgraded
over many years by engineers until it becomes a fully conscious android. It
then obsessively pursues the meaning of life through ever larger art projects,
some reaching planetary scale. It eventually concludes it has found the
meaning of life and in it's final art project it disables all it's higher
cognitive functions and "downgrades" itself back to it's original tile
scrubbing form with just enough awareness left to take pleasure in the
singular menial task.

EDIT: I just found out it was adapted from a book called Zima Blue and Other
Stories by Alastair Reynolds

~~~
foxyv
That was such a great episode. But one thing I hate about the philosophy, on
the surface of it, is the cynical belief that you have to be simple or stupid
to be happy. This is so patently un-true. In the immediate moment, maybe you
can be happier but it becomes a short path to ruin for most people.

Although I do love the idea of how Zima constructed his own version of heaven
and relegated himself to it. I just hate how he had to become unconscious to
do so.

------
brodouevencode
The author did not do a good job of spelling out the differences in the two
types of happiness. In fact, she didn't even address them by their proper
names (hedonic and eudaimonic). Identifying the two and really digging in on
their differences would probably have made for a more interesting article -
and certainly a more enlightening one. Just saying "people are unhappy, don't
confuse unhappy with unjoyful" isn't enough. (Spoiler alert: people think they
want hedonic when what they're really seeking is eudaimonic.)

We're driven to hedonic happiness to which the article loosely alludes just by
having stuff and labels that say to be happy. While short term satisfactory it
does nothing for people long term. Eudaimonic happiness is a deeper, almost
stoic-like approach to happiness. It involves being a part of something that
has potential of outlasting the individual. From my experience it took a while
to get to this point and understanding the real differences and putting into
practices the ceremonies that go with it.

One little trick that I learned a while back: never say "I have to" when you
can say "I get to". For example it's not "I have to help a friend move" it's
"I get to help a friend move". It turned from a chore to a treat - and it is a
treat because I get to spend time with my friend. Yeah, it's hot, physically
exhausting, and all you get at the end of the day is pizza and beer, but at
the end of the day _you get pizza and beer_ which is better than 99% of the
rest of the world. It may sound kitchy (spelling?) but it works.

~~~
voidhorse
While I stand by your desire for more nuance in the discussion, I'd be wary of
assuming one theorization of happiness, and it's attendant conceptual
divisions, is the _only_ theory of happiness. While the hedonistic and
eudaemonic conceptions come down to us from tradition for good reason, it
seems somewhat presumptuous to call these categorizations the "proper names"
for the kinds of happiness.

Since it's a humanistic concept, there are many ways to break it down and
define it--some competing theories might not even agree with the
hedonistic/eudaemonic split (some might find the division too simple, others
unnecessary).

There's a lot of different ways one can approach it. For instance, the
discussion gets even more interesting when we consider, on the hedonistic
side, the world of Sadism--as concepts that seems diametrically opposed
(pleasure/pain) intermingle quite interestingly. I would not be surprised if a
similar phenomena occurs on the level of hedonism/eudaemonia--the pursuit of
one may also mix with some of the incentives and pleasures of the pursuit of
the other.

~~~
brodouevencode
> it seems somewhat presumptuous to call these categorizations the "proper
> names" for the kinds of happiness

Maybe so, but all kinds generally fall into one or both of these kinds
(there's grey area as there always is). My point though was to show that the
author didn't even scratch the surface in examining what happiness is and
because of that the article just seemed like filler.

------
Something1234
Anybody ever watch Steve Cutts, especially the animations he did for Moby?
They are crazy depressing. I feel like happiness is exactly what Denis Leary
explianed it as. It's a brief moment, like a smoke or a beer.

But on to the videos:

[happiness]:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9dZQelULDk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9dZQelULDk)

[moby are you lost]:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VASywEuqFd8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VASywEuqFd8)

~~~
NTDF9
Thanks for posting. I realize how true the rat race is for software workers.

------
voidhorse
The pursuit of "happiness" is just about the best way to ensure you remain
unhappy. I'm not sure when precisely it happened, but "happiness" got a lot
harder to find as soon as humanity hypostatized it and made it into a psuedo-
religious concept and the end all-be-all of life--seems like everyone just
want's to "be happy". Unfortunately, "happiness" is not concrete--it's a lazy
stand-in for the goals you ought to actually be setting for yourself. The
point of life is not to "be happy"\--happiness is a pleasant side effect of
the life well-lived, not its telos.

Pursue something concrete. Set a measurable goal. Aim for small things. Remove
the term "happy" from your vocabulary. Just be and do, and focus on things
that are small, well defined, modest and not amorphous. Cast aside your
distractions. Choose an identity for yourself. Write the obituary you'd want
to have. Work toward it. Fulfill your being. All of a sudden, you might feel a
certain nonchalance, a certain comfortability, you might find that you can get
on just fine without fretting so much. Over time, your worries might even
start to dissipate.

Oh, and stop spending so much time consuming and start spending more time
producing, crucially, _for yourself_ or for your loved ones, not for an
employer. When you interact with other people, use your brain, don't turn it
off. Think about them in a serious, focused way. Be present. Contemplate
moments. Give good gifts. Break from patterns. Don't be afraid of
embarrassment, corniness, or sentiment. Stop following prescribed modes of
interaction and existence without even consciously acceding to them.

"Happiness" itself is a big part of the problem, it's just as problematic as
every other hypostatized concept that's ever dawned in the course of human
history.

~~~
empath75
>Haïta told him all: how thrice he had met the radiant maid, and thrice she
had left him forlorn. He related minutely all that had passed between them,
omitting no word of what had been said.

> When he had ended, the holy hermit was a moment silent, then said: "My son,
> I have attended to thy story, and I know the maiden. I have myself seen her,
> as have many. Know, then, that her name, which she would not even permit
> thee to inquire, is Happiness. Thou saidst the truth to her, that she is
> capricious for she imposeth conditions that man can not fulfill, and
> delinquency is punished by desertion. She cometh only when unsought, and
> will not be questioned. One manifestation of curiosity, one sign of doubt,
> one expression of misgiving, and she is away! How long didst thou have her
> at any time before she fled?"

> "Only a single instant," answered Haïta, blushing with shame at the
> confession. "Each time I drove her away in one moment."

> "Unfortunate youth " said the holy hermit, "but for thine indiscretion thou
> mightst have had her for two."

Ambrose Bierce - Haita the Shepherd.

[https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ha%C3%AFta_the_Shepherd](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ha%C3%AFta_the_Shepherd)

------
hos234
It's like watching children pick 3-4 random things off the internet, weave a
connection between them, and then broadcast the creation to millions of
people. Well done nytimes. Keep it up.

------
vorpalhex
Happiness, in the fundamental sense, is a choice. That choice can be easier or
harder at times, just like it's easier to speak your mind with a good friend
then in a room full of strangers. It is however a choice, and it's a choice
you can make even when it's really difficult.

Happiness shouldn't be conflated with what the article calls "joy". Joy is
good and fine, but it's a primarily external phenomenon.

I find happiness to be like a muscle. When you actively choose to be happy
most of the time, it's easier to be happy in difficult times. If you never
practice happiness, the ability to make that choice decays and weakens.

The single greatest practice you can do for your own happiness (and general
sanity) is to create a feedback loop. For most people, this takes the form of
a journal. Electronic, physical, who cares. Jot down something every night,
read the previous nights entry when you're done.

~~~
lonelyasf
You didn't state your circumstances but in my limited experience I rarely meet
happy people that don't have a sitaution for happiness. They have a loving
partner and/or loving friends and family around and/or a fulfilling job. VS
say myself which hasn't had a lover in > 16 years, no family within 7000
miles, and no hangout friends, only a few friends I see once every 1 to 2
months. In my 50s also makes it hard to find peers to make these things from
vs say if I was 20 in college it's trival (or at least much easier) to find
people to hang with who have time to hang out, to being around the same often
enough that mutual attraction develops into lovers, etc...

If it's not clear what I'm saying I'm saying that just writing in a journal
everyday and someone will be happy is not enough to make someone happy. They
do actually need love and friends and physical contact and purpose.

~~~
vorpalhex
Are you sure you haven't swapped cause and effect? Your statement implies
because I had friends and a partner, I was able to be happy. Yet, perhaps it's
because I was happy I was able to form deep relationships.

I suggest this based on my own life. I've had moments where I was
fundamentally unhappy, and despite having a partner and friends on the books,
I was effectively alone. Likewise, I've had moments where I was happy but
alone, but didn't struggle to build up meaningful connections relatively
quickly.

The reason I suggest the feedback loop mechanism isn't because writing in a
journal is going to directly bring you happiness anymore than reading a book
on finances will make you rich. It's because it gives you the insight into
your life so you can make the changes needed.

As a side note, if you want to find friends and companions, you need to engage
with others and have shared activities and rituals. Check out meetup, check
out your local social groups (Elks, etc). Attend events, talk with other
people, etc.

------
tpowell
I still like Naval Ravikant’s definition from his extraordinary guest spot on
the Farnam Street podcast[1]: “Today, I believe that happiness is, it’s really
a default state. It’s what’s there when you remove the sense that something is
missing in your life. We are highly judgmental, survival, and replication
machines. We are constantly walking around thinking I need this, I need that,
trapped in the web of desires. Happiness is that state when nothing is
missing. When nothing is missing, your mind shuts down and your mind stops
running into the future or running into the past to regret something or to
plan something.”

[1] [https://fs.blog/naval-ravikant/](https://fs.blog/naval-ravikant/)

~~~
screenbeard
If it were the default state would people find it so hard to attain? It's hard
not to want things, to not believe that there's just one more thing that could
make things better. If it were simple it wouldn't be the core basis of so many
religions.

~~~
mercer
I'd say the core basis of at least Buddhism is basically in line with
Ravikant's thinking.

And based on my experience with Christianity, much of Jesus' teaching, while
not exactly the same, also emphasizes practicing not wanting things ("See the
birds of the sky, that they don’t sow, neither do they reap, nor gather into
barns. Your heavenly Father feeds them. Aren’t you of much more value than
they?")

I wouldn't be surprised if this thought is a core element of most religions.
Of course, religions are messy, so you're not entirely wrong either.

------
viburnum
Happiness is a social phenomenon and can’t be solved by individuals. You can
move to your own idea of paradise but if you care about other people your
happiness will depend on theirs as well.

------
undefined3840
I think when people say they want to be happy what they really mean is they
want to find contentment. Contentment is a long-lasting feeling. Happiness is
ephemeral.

~~~
empath75
Even if happiness is ephemeral, it’s worth pursuing. It’s something you can
really only recognize through contrast with unhappy states.

To me the best kind of happiness is tinged with the sadness of knowing that it
won’t last.

------
devmunchies
More and more Americans are living in larger cities than previous generations.
I think lack of a connection with a local community is contributing to high
stress. I moved down to the Sierra Nevada mountains from Seattle and my
anxiety and stress is much lower.

~~~
wklauss
Large cities can have very vibrant local communities. I lived in NYC for
several years and had very rewarding connections with other people in my same
neighborhood, not different from the one you'd expect in a small village.

~~~
kempbellt
I lived in Brooklyn for a while. For the first 6 months, no one in my building
talked to each other until one day my roommates and I took a couple of chairs
up to the roof to have a few beers. Quickly, the neighbors came out of the
woodwork and it wasn't long before the whole building was just a big group of
friends.

Compared to living in a building in Seattle for two years where I only ever
met one neighbor, who was an old lady that need helped down some stairs when
the fire alarm went off. People mostly avoided each other in that building.

It's a bit hit and miss, but if you feel like you are a part of a strong local
community (even just a building full of friends), it is incredibly rewarding.

------
mjevans
Maybe it's a question of having time to get together with others.

In the unending war for attention, I feel like I've lost; and through being
out of all the social loops, also lost the chances for joy I used to have.

I can't be the only one that feels like there's just not enough time to go
around, even less so than there used to be. That it's impossible to get
together with friends to do anything on the weekend. That the transaction cost
of trying to overcome physical distance is rising. That seemingly everyone has
something else they're investing time in.

------
PeterStuer
Happy people buy less stuff. Unhappy people try to consume their way out of
unhappiness. Our socio-economic paradigm is centered on maximizing consumption
aka economic growth.

------
Swizec
What does being happy even mean? What does it get you as a goal? I’m not sure
it’s even worth chasing.

My favorite view on “happiness” comes from The Oatmeal, How to be perfectly
unhappy:
[https://www.theoatmeal.com/comics/unhappy](https://www.theoatmeal.com/comics/unhappy)

It boils down to this: stop chasing happiness or joy or whatever marketing
departments have decided you need and their product can provide.

Focus on meaning.

~~~
robbrown451
Unless meaning makes me happy, I don't see the reason to focus on it.

This discussion is rather circular, to be honest. Happiness, by my definition,
is a state of having achieved a goal or goals. (I wrote this lengthy thing
over ten years ago trying to put hard definitions on words like
happiness/satisfaction/pleasure etc:
[http://www.karmatics.com/docs/dictionary.html](http://www.karmatics.com/docs/dictionary.html)
)

Maybe you define happiness differently than me, but I have a hard time
understanding how it can be considered "not worth chasing" by any definition
that makes sense to me.

~~~
scns
Because some things get further away when you chase them

------
WheelsAtLarge
Happiness is a state of mind. I can't tell you how to get there but I do know
that you can't expect things and people to make you happy. It's all around us
but only you know what your state of happiness is. You have to find it for
yourself.

~~~
MuffinFlavored
Should you expect to be happy most of the time? I feel like a lot of
youngsters self-diagnose themselves with depression/bipolar disorder because
they feel they should be happy the majority of the time, then feel there is
something wrong with them if they aren’t.

Tangentially related: why are some people always in a bad, meanie-pants mood?
Don’t they too believe happiness is a mindset they can just be in if they want
to?

------
pitt1980
Fwiw,

[https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/ZbgCx2ntD5eu8Cno9/how-to-
be-...](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/ZbgCx2ntD5eu8Cno9/how-to-be-happy)

------
croh
"The best things in life are free. The second best things are very, very
expensive.” - Coco Chanel

------
anm89
It's great when a question so simple is asked that you can answer it and then
never think about it again.

No.

------
hyfgfh
Life isn't about happiness is about misery....

------
paulcole
I know I am!

------
cdnuzzo
Happiness comes from within. Our social medias are stifling that. Get off them
(or at least know how to limit and ignore)!

------
jimmaswell
law of headlines

