
Turns out Verizon’s $70 gigabit internet costs way more than $70 - dvdhnt
http://www.theverge.com/2017/4/25/15423998/verizon-70-gigabit-costs-more-pricing-upgrade
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arcanus
This is a way where Europe is much better than the USA. If I buy something in
Europe, the tax is already included: the price listed _is_ the price. Most
restaurants don't require massive 20% surcharges in the form of tips. The menu
price _is_ the price.

In the USA anytime I try to make a major purchase (house, car, recurring
internet) I'm instantly saddled by numerous hidden fees, optional charges and
up-selling that substantially increase the end cost.

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sigil
I've never understood this line of reasoning. You don't object to sales tax
per se, you just prefer that it be hidden from you? (Ie, included in the
sticker price.) But later you object to hidden fees in the context of major
purchases.

Which is it -- should taxes be visible or invisible? Does the visibility of
the tax matter more than the amount of the tax?

The strong preference for _highly visible taxation_ might be a uniquely
American thing. Most Americans probably know their effective state & local
sales tax rate to within a whole percentage, since it's a separate line item
on literally every transaction they engage in. Where I live total sales tax is
about 7%; the highest that total sales tax rates reach in America is about
10%. (For comparison, sales tax in Germany is 19%). In my hometown, a proposal
to increase local sales tax by even 1/10th of a cent is accompanied by
vigorous public debate, and often enough fails to pass. People pay close
attention to these things.

Where we seem to agree: lots of hidden fees and upcharges are a consumer UX
problem, and they result in confusion and frustration. Anecdotally it seems
the most regulated industries (air travel, internet service, phone service,
public utilities) are the worst offenders.

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dragonwriter
> I've never understood this line of reasoning. You don't object to sales tax
> per se, you just prefer that it be hidden from you? (Ie, included in the
> sticker price.) But later you object to hidden fees in the context of major
> purchases.

Those are consistent. "Hidden Fees" is the common term for fees which are
required but not disclosed as part of the advertised price; they are part of
advertising a price that is lower than what you actually must pay for the good
or service.

Sales taxes that are not included in marked prices are a form of hidden fee,
and reduce the visibility of _prices_.

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sigil
Okay, there's some disagreement about terminology here. Does "hidden" refer to
a tax or fee rolled into the price? Or does "hidden" mean "only visible later,
at checkout?" Guess it depends on whether you're talking about tax being
hidden, or total price being hidden.

> Sales taxes that are not included in marked prices are a form of hidden fee,
> and reduce the visibility of prices.

No disagreement there. Separate sales tax makes every price a computation, and
the local optimization is to remove all that computational overhead. I'm not
sure the local optimum of invisible tax is a global optimum, however. General
public awareness of taxation might be worth the cost in the long run.

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shakna
> . I'm not sure the local optimum of invisible tax is a global optimum,

It's not invisible.

For example, here's an item from a menu in Australia:

$1.95, includes 10% GST.

You get the total final cost, as well as the tax breakdown.

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bubblethink
What's a fios router and why do you need one ? Why do you need any equipment
from them ? The forced cable box monopoly was bad enough. Is it happening to
routers too now ?

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mackey
I could be wrong, but I think you only need the Verizon modem if you also get
TV from them. If you don't, you have to have them activate the ethernet port
on the ONT and you can use whatever router you want.

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pwg
You are correct. The 'verizon router' is only necessary in some strange way to
support the set-top-box for TV purposes [1]. If you have internet only, and a
hot ethernet jack on the ONT, you can use whatever you like.

My FIOS came with a hot ethernet jack, and the crappy verizon POS router has
never been hooked up to the FIOS. Instead what is attached is the Linux PC
that acts as my router/firewall. Works just fine that way.

[1] And, oddly, it (the stupid router) is still required for the set-top-box
even if all one has is TV+Phone. It's coax has to be tee connected to the coax
feeding the set-top-box before the set-top-box will start up and operate
properly.

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freestockoption
Darn. AT&T makes you connect their router ("modem") to the ONT. They won't
activate a direct connection to the ONT. Something about 802.1x certificates
being baked into the router.

