

FBI: Carrier IQ files used for "law enforcement purposes" - morisy
http://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2011/dec/12/fbi-carrier-iq-files-used-law-enforcement-purposes/

======
smokeyj
A profile is being generated about you, slowly but surely. It starts out as a
vague picture, but the more you communicate, the the more clearly you define
yourself. It includes your political affiliations, interests you display
online, who your friends are, your every movement, your sexual preferences,
close secrets, and anything else that can be gathered about you. These
profiles are stored in a government database that allow contractors to test
threat-detection algorithms to identify potential threats to national security
-- aka, status quo. These reports will be sent to the appropriate LEO to
summon and indefinitely detain you. You will be sent to a secret prison. You
will not have a court date. Get ready for the New America.

Edit - Yes, the hyperbole is strong in this one.

~~~
JanezStupar
And all I can think of is.

Holy Shit. Stallman was right.

Prescience is a dangerous gift for ones mental health. I like to think of RMS
as driven mad by his vision not seeing vision because of being mad.

~~~
sounds
While I do appreciate your statement in the larger literary context (great
artists and prophets deemed insane), and I don't think RMS is justified in
everything he does...

I reject your allusion to his insanity. Neurotic behavior is not the same as
out-of-control psychotic.

~~~
JanezStupar
But do you know what the worst part is?

He is right and he was right on basically every count of batshit crazy
IP/privacy "conspiracy" he ever conceived. And as crazy and repugnant as we
find him. He probably is right about what is coming but we don't see it yet.

~~~
NinetyNine
I think the actual "worst part" is that the guy who was right is a guy which
most people find repulsive.

~~~
sukuriant
That's how it usually is, unfortunately. People don't like being told where
dangerous things will lead them.

~~~
X-Istence
Except that the reason we find him repulsive is not because of him telling us
"where dangerous things will lead them" but because of him as a human being,
his behaviours and personal hygiene.

I have great respect for his thoughts and ideas, and his steadfastness in
following his own rules/guidelines, but I don't like him. If he were to look
more the part I would have an easier time telling people about his ideas and
thoughts without having to worry about people asking "Is that the guy that
eats stuff he pulls from his feet?". His outward appearance influences the way
people see him, the way people treat him and how much they value his ideas and
how seriously they take them.

That is unfortunately true for anyone in almost any situation.

------
theorique
Thank goodness. I was worried that they might be _misused_. I feel safe now.

Go to sleep, citizens. All is well. All is under control.

------
eliasmacpherson
Interesting excerpt from CarrierIQ's apology to Eckhart, which exists thanks
to the EFF:

We would like to take this opportunity to reiterate the functionality of
Carrier IQ’s software, what it does not do and what it does:

Does not record your keystrokes.

Does not provide tracking tools.

Does not inspect or report on the content of your communications, such as the
content of emails and SMSs.

Does not provide real-time data reporting to any customer.

Finally, we do not sell Carrier IQ data to third parties.

<http://www.carrieriq.com/company/PR.EckhartStatement.pdf>

~~~
waqf
I notice that they don't say that they don't _provide_ Carrier IQ data to
third parties, just that they don't sell it.

------
kstenerud
Which is why it's nice to be in full control of the software/hardware stack
you use. Walled gardens may look nice and be convenient in the present, and
may even give the illusion of security, but in the end they're inevitably
abused.

~~~
soundslikeneon
I'm not sure if you meant for this particular interpretation or not, but the
way you invoke "walled garden" makes it sound a lot like you are targeting iOS
specifically. This couldn't be further from the truth.

Based on my own reading. Carrier IQ is installed on _many_ Android-based
phones, including those from AT&T, Sprint and T-Mobile networks. Apple, HTC
and Samsung have all confirmed that Carrier IQ is on their phones. HOWEVER,
Apple has also announced that it has stopped supporting CIQ as of iOS 5, and
will completely scrub the software from later releases.

So no, this has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not your phone exists
in a closed ecosystem. The problem is that companies are incentivized to get
away with as much of this kind of information collection as it possibly can.
And just because I have to jailbreak my iPhone if I want to install unvetted
software, doesn't mean Apple is thumbing their noses at legitimate customer
complaints and concerns.

~~~
redrobot5050
Carrier IQ is in iOS 5. It is, however, disabled by default. It is also buried
in the second or third level down in Preferences, so its very unlikely a user
will enable it by accident -- and will probably only do so upon the
instruction of an Apple Store Support Rep.

~~~
lallysingh
There's no way to send a remote message to enable it?

~~~
redrobot5050
Unknown.

However, the FBI can send a remote message to ANY phone to turn on its
microphone and essentially use it as a wiretap. That's been built into every
phone in the USA for something like 10 years now. It's why you have to
surrender a cell phone in secure locations and military bases.

That's old news. Said wiretaps have actually been used against organized crime
in America in the past and is likely used with more success now.

Oh, and you do know that everything you SEND through a cellular network --
texts, pics, urls visited are logged, right?

The only way to have a private network is to own the network. And know your
netsec.

~~~
waqf
I've been hearing that story about the FBI remotely activating cellphone
microphones for several years now, but do you have a credible source for it?

~~~
redrobot5050
Yes.

Any briefing involving a secure area will mention that phones can be triggered
this way, and that your customer (military, intel, DoD, or DOE) forbids their
access for the very reason.

~~~
waqf
Are such briefings classified, or is there some chance of a citable reference?

~~~
redrobot5050
I wouldn't be at liberty to comment either way. Talk to your friendly,
neighborhood defense contractor.

------
r00fus
Why should the government run massive data centers to crawl your every move
when they can get you to run a hidden app to do the pre-filtering for them
(and give them keystroke/touch-level access on demand in realtime)

------
metachris
This unfolding Carrier IQ scandal is a really huge deal in my opinion. It just
shows how our phones are used by both companies and law enforcement to track
us, and that probably for a decade with software like this.

Anybody knows if there is a website that tracks this incident, affected
phones, related news, ...?

~~~
redrobot5050
Wait, you're just figuring out now that anything that travels through a cell
phone network could be monitored?

~~~
metachris
A lot of people wonder whether this is tracking theories are for real. Now at
least one very popular way of how its currently being done is exposed.

~~~
redrobot5050
Wired broke the stories about the NSA monitoring something like 25% of all
domestic cell phone traffic. The fact that all investigations into it have
been stopped citing "National Security", and the former President Bush
defended the tactic all are pretty good signs pointing to "YES".

------
drunkenmasta
Not only law enforcement, but general intelligence and especially marketers
and advertisers. They will soon know you better than you know yourself
[http://danielmillsap.com/blog/technology-news/carrier-iq-
the...](http://danielmillsap.com/blog/technology-news/carrier-iq-the-untold-
story/)

~~~
fluidcruft
It's a shame really that we don't have access to the same data for self-
discovery. Imagine if everyone had their own data and people could communicate
with algorithms. Greenpeace could have a little thing that you run on your
data to get tips for improving your shopping habits, etc. Unions could have a
way to help you avoid bad products. Or your phone could learn when you need a
nudge one way or the other to improve your health.

------
sev
Excellent, remove the fault from the corporations and give even more power.
Whatever happened to warrants?

~~~
redrobot5050
Where did the article indicate that Law Enforcement didn't need a warrant to
access the Carrier IQ data?

~~~
sp332
I remember a time when they had to get a warrant _before_ logging your
information. Now with Carrier ID and Google and Facebook, the information is
already collected, and they only need a warrant to access the years and years
of detailed historical information. It's quite a big difference.

~~~
redrobot5050
Carrier IQ isn't used by all carriers (Verizon opts out, I believe) and the
data transmitted is anonymous. I admit there is a risk with the data profiles
being assembled, and being done so with ease not seen before, but the carrier
IQ findings seem to be bad tech reporting and fear mongering. It really seems
to be "not a big deal".

I am all for advocating privacy and a discussion about user's rights -- but I
would like it if both sides left their hysteria at the door.

~~~
cmdrreiki
anonymous data does not exist

------
16s
A play on the Ben Franklin quote about giving-up freedom for security:

 _Those Who Sacrifice The Right To Privacy For Convenience Deserve Neither._

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mariuolo
Anyone shocked?

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lurkinggrue
I am shocked! SHOCKED!

...well not THAT shocked.

------
evgen
Gotta love the paranoid nutjobs jumping straight to "the FBI is using Carrier
IQ to spy on us" when an equally likely explanation buried in paragraph three
is that if the FBI is conducting an investigation of Carrier IQ for possible
violation of federal wiretap laws then the same data would be withheld. Let's
see now... Al Franken, who recently made some loud noises about Carrier IQ and
sent a public letter to the company asking for information about what they are
doing, sits on the Senate Judiciary committee. The committee that has direct
oversight of the FBI would be? Anyone? Bueller?

~~~
morisy
Not quite sure it's "paranoid" to think the FBI is, in some cases, using
Carrier IQ software to gather information given recent U.S. history. Also,
since the request was specifically for manuals used to gather information
using Carrier IQ, and not just for any information on Carrier IQ, when they
say they have responsive documents to the request I would imagine it refers to
manuals or guides in their possession.

~~~
evgen
If the FBI is conducting an investigation into possible criminal activity by
Carrier IQ then the manuals and guides are direct evidence showing what the
company intended the software to do, making it evidence in an ongoing
investigation.

~~~
morisy
Not discounting the possibility of that (I specifically stated it in the
article), but I'd bet even odds FBI has some knowledge of accessing Carrier IQ
data.

~~~
marshray
The FBI have professional phone forensics/evidence labs around the country.
They work with handset manufacturers and special purpose vendors to extract
and analyze every bit of data that exists in the phone.

It's inconceivable that CarrierIQ would store unencrypted data on a large
number of phones and the FBI would not know how to access it. More than
likely, CIQ sells them the tool to do it, or at least provides documentation.

