
The Bottom of the Pay Scale: Wages for H-1B Computer Programmers (2005) - griff1986
http://cis.org/PayScale-H1BWages
======
notlisted
This data is from 2005! A lot has changed since.

I can't quickly google the date it changed (before of after 2005?) but during
the first bubble of 1999-2001, H1B holders were beholden to their employers as
they were not allowed to look for another position or switch companies. The
only official choice was to leave the country. This made employees virtual
slaves to their employers (I was one of them) and was a great way to ensure
artificially depressed wages (no competition => no risk of them leaving => so
no reason to pay them a competitive wage).

I suspect, no data here, that this situation has changed a little. H1B wages
may still be on the lower end of the spectrum, but that would be mostly driven
by the (IMHO absolutely crazy) development of 60%+ of H1B visas going to body
shops. This should change. Quotas for the Tatas. Give lone wolf applicants a
chance again to come to the US and make this a better place.

PS One thing many critics of the H1B program forget: H1B holders pay into the
social security system, but unless they reach the required 40 points, they
have no right to collect. The only way reach 40 points is to work here 10
years (4 points per year) but the max H1B duration overall is 6. Unless they
get a greencard, through marriage or company sponsorship, they only add to the
coffers without the chance of collecting.

~~~
sveiss
You can count US social security contributions towards the requirements in
other countries (and vice versa) if they're covered by one of the treaties:
[https://www.ssa.gov/international/agreements_overview.html](https://www.ssa.gov/international/agreements_overview.html)
.

It's a short list of countries, though, and doesn't cover the top H-1B senders

------
surfmike
Here's an idea: auction off H1-B spots based on salary each month. And require
the employers to pay that wage annually for at least 4 years. Would keep the
H1-Bs for the most valuable candidates, and prevent its abuse as just a way to
import cheap labor.

A special pool for startups would be nice too, with less costs/requirements.

I'd personally be in favor of getting rid of the cap entirely or increasing it
several times at least, but these might be more realistic reform ideas.

~~~
akavi
I'd also make the visa attach to the person, not the company. (Ie, the person
can change jobs, taking the visa with them, so long as they keep the auction-
winning salary level or higher.)

As for:

> A special pool for startups would be nice too, with less costs/requirements.

...why?

~~~
learc83
Yeah why should startups get to avoid paying market prices. If you want to
subsidize starups do it directly, don't assist then in depressing wages.

------
esaym
> the program is vital to U.S. competitiveness because it allows the world's
> "best and brightest" to come to America and helps sustain U.S. leadership

If it is truly the "best and brightest", then why are they paid so low?

~~~
pc86
Because there is no risk of them leaving if they are tied to the company.
That's a huge blow to supply, which depresses wages.

------
diogenescynic
>Wages for H-1B workers in computer programming occupations are overwhelmingly
concentrated at the bottom of the U.S. pay scale. Wages on LCAs for 85 percent
of H-1B workers were for less than the median U.S. wage in the same
occupations and state.

>Applications for 47 percent of H-1B computer programming workers were for
wages below even the prevailing wage claimed by their employers.

That is pretty damning evidence. The program is clearly not being used for its
intended purposes. When somewhere between 47 and 85% of H-1Bs are being
significantly underpaid compared to their peers, the program is not being used
to being over workers with "specialized knowledge" as they claim--but to drive
down wages. It makes sense though, when you look at the biggest H-1B
recipients: [http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2015-H1B-Visa-
Sponsor.aspx](http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2015-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx)
It's all low quality outsourcing shops like Infosys, TCS, Wipro, HCL, and
Cognizant.

Make the H-1B 'lottery' into an auction. Instead of accepting 65,000 H-1Bs at
random--accept the 65,000 H-1Bs with the highest wages. That way we are
getting the immigrants with the highest valued skills and stopping companies
like Infosys, TCS, Wipro, HCL, and Cognizant that game the immigration system
by applying for the cheapest H-1Bs possible.

------
learc83
The only real way to prevent this is to raise the price. Either through
auctions, increased fees, or increased minimum salary.

If you can't find someone at the prevailing wage, you have to offer more.
That's how the prevailing wage increases. Increasing the supply of workers
willing to work for the current prevailing wage depresses wage growth--there's
no way around it.

~~~
eloisant
This is not evidence that H1B make less for similar skills/experience. Just a
big average.

Fees and paperwork is already fairly high, so I don't think companies hire H1B
to cut costs.

~~~
learc83
If that is the case, then it means we are hiring H-1B workers who are less
skilled on average, than the average US worker.

If H-1Bs weren't available, companies would be forced to keep raising the
offered salary when they couldn't fill a position. Virtually any position can
be filled given a high enough salary. Therefore if companies are choosing to
hire H-1Bs instead of raising the salary to the level necessary to fill
positions with US workers, then it is because it is cheaper to pay the H-1B
costs.

------
greglindahl
This article is fairly typical of ones critical of the H1B program: it looks
at average programmer wages instead of controlling for experience or skills.
As we all know, wages for programmers vary widely.

~~~
learc83
So you're saying that if we control for skill and experience H-1B programmers
don't make less, but their overall average wage is less.

That means that we are hiring H-1B workers who are less skilled than the
average US worker. How is that any better?

~~~
nostrebored
How is the parent saying that? I'm interpreting this as given two identical
employees an h1b would be paid less.

~~~
learc83
>I'm interpreting this as given two identical employees an h1b would be paid
less.

That is what the study implies. The parent says, no this is not the case
because they didn't control skills and experience, so some other factor must
be causing the observation that H-1B workers are paid less.

In that case the only other option to explain the results is that the average
H-1B worker is less skilled or less experienced.

------
coldcode
2005 should be in the title

~~~
dang
Yes.

