
How Germany Does Prison - Tomte
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/06/16/how-germany-does-prison
======
lordnacho
Anecdotes from a Scandinavian country:

\- When I was a kid someone "borrowed" a bulldozer and made a huge hole in the
wall at a prison. A few guys escaped. But most of the rest didn't. They were
having some sort of family day and didn't think it made sense to bolt.

\- I was taught how to swim by a convict on release. He had a police officer
with him each time, but she kept in the background. He was doing time for a
violent offence, but one that reasonably did not pose a danger to the general
public.

~~~
jules
I think the question to ask people who favor punishment prisons is this:
prisoners get out of prison one day. If a prisoner was moving in the house
next to yours as your neighbor, would you rather have a prisoner from a prison
focused on humane treatment or from a prison focused on punishment?

~~~
geowwy
You set it up as "punishment prisons" vs. "humane prisons".

I don't think anyone says prisons should be inhumane in order to punish
criminals. The imprisonment is the punishment, not the treatment inside the
prison.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
And yet...Texas made their lesser criminals plant potatoes in the hot Texas
sun in the middle of nowhere. Recidivism dropped to almost nothing, for those
crimes (petty theft etc).

Cruel? No, some folks line up to do those jobs. If its ok for Joe Shmoe to get
paid minimum wage to do it, then its ok for inmates. Just hot and miserable.

Anyway, I'm 'incarcerated' in my cubicle for 8 hours a day. It definitely
matters what treatment is inside the prison.

~~~
pstuart
> Anyway, I'm 'incarcerated' in my cubicle for 8 hours a day.

Really? You can't go to lunch when you want? Go for a coffee break? Call in
sick when you aren't well? Quit that job if you find a better one?

Anybody who lines up for the opportunity to plant potatoes in the hot sun is
clearly desperate for work. Desperate people will do lots of things that
"normal" people would not.

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probably_wrong
After reading the article, I'm wondering: so, how Germany does prison?

> Over the next several days, I’ll be keeping a tour diary for The Marshall
> Project and VICE, watching as they visit a series of facilities in Berlin
> and Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania

This is an article about what the article will say once they write it.
Premature journalism at its best.

~~~
Tomte
There are five installments in this Series.

~~~
philippnagel
And this: [https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/09/25/prison-
without...](https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/09/25/prison-without-
punishment) seems to be the longer article scheduled for October.

~~~
Tomte
Great! Maybe a mod will change the URL?

~~~
Pamar
Actyally this seems to be a better URL for this:
[https://www.themarshallproject.org/tag/how-germany-does-
pris...](https://www.themarshallproject.org/tag/how-germany-does-prison)

------
mschuster91
We Germans have our own issues though, it's not perfect. What is the prison
system in the US, is the psychiatric system here. Once you get in its wheels,
it takes really dedicated lawyers and sometimes even mass-media attention to
get out. Just look at Gustl Mollath.

And our "justice" system suffers from massive, massive understaffing, just
like the police. It's easy to "cut costs" there for politicians because there
is no immediate negative effect, and by the time said effects hit, the
politician responsible is not in office any more.

~~~
tormeh
I've never seen more police than in Berlin. In Norway I can go for months
without seeing police. In Berlin they were everywhere with guns and body
armor. So, yeah, not underfunded at all, as far as I can see.

~~~
DasIch
Berlin is a special case because there are a lot of places that require
protection such as government buildings, embassies and synagogues. There is
also a protest somewhere in Berlin on almost any given day. On top of that
there is the criminal activity, drugs mostly, which means that the police raid
places like Görlitzer Park pretty much daily.

In the rest of Germany there are cities you can easily spend months in without
encountering a police officer.

~~~
sjm
Do Police really raid Görlitzer Park? I haven't been in Berlin for long but I
was under the impression it was fairly tolerated, and it seems like a bit of a
waste of police resources to crack down on (what I understand is) just a bit
of weed.

~~~
DasIch
They do, not that it has any noticeable impact.

Weed is definitely widely tolerated. Many people are in favor of legalization
not just among those that enjoy weed but also among people working in the
justice system that recognize that prohibition isn't working. Legalization
would make it easier to deal with addicts, make it easier to prevent children
and teenagers getting weed, would make many parks nicer to visit and bring in
taxes. I think that it's just a matter of time until public opinion shifts to
the point that it will be legalized.

Nevertheless the time isn't there yet, the senator responsible for police is
member of the CDU, conservative and in favor of prohibition and unfortunately,
while it's mostly weed, it's not just weed and many people aren't too happy
about the aggressive sales tactics.

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mhd
As far as I know, there are no truly federal prisons in Germany, so depending
on whether you're in Mecklenburg-Pomerania or Bavaria, things might vary quite
a bit (although stringent federal laws do apply).

~~~
germanier
Up until 2006 prisons were completely regulated federally, even though they
were run by the states. Since then, the states are in charge of prison laws,
though they don't vary much.

Just as an example for one of they "major" differences: Most states still
require TVs in common rooms but as many inmates have their own nowadays, some
states made them optional. In Hamburg there is never a TV in a common room.
Some states may require the inmates to pay for the electricity they use with
their own appliances.

Most other differences are also on that level.

