
The Frontal Cortex : The Hidden Cost of Smart Drugs - prakash
http://scienceblogs.com/cortex/2008/05/the_hidden_cost_of_smart_drugs.php
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GHFigs
The foundation for this post is the superstitious belief that all things
balance out: i.e. that dramatically increased focus _must_ mean dramatically
decreased creativity. Quote: "It makes perfect sense that such a cognitive
trade-off would exist." As Errol Morris said, nothing is so obvious that it's
obvious.

On the other hand, there are mounds of anecdotal evidence (and possibly some
data) indicating that dopaminergic drugs like Ritalin, meth and cocaine have
negative effects on original thinking; and likewise that drugs like LSD or
psilocybin seem to have positive effects on the same.

(Note that I say original thinking, which doesn't necessarily mean creatively
worthwhile thinking.)

My own pet theory on dopaminergics is that the constant stimulation of the
pleasure response reduces our ability to evaluate ideas and distinguish
between a good one and a bad one, or a fun activity and a boring one. This
would help explain punding behavior (i.e. "tweaking") and "cocaine ideas", as
well as the utility in getting school children to pay attention. It would also
suggest that modafinil, which lacks this stimulation, wouldn't have negative
effects on original thinking.

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asdflkj
What exactly is original thinking, and what kind of "creatively worthwhile
thinking" is not original? I was going to disagree with you, but what you said
is too vague for me to even know whether I disagree or agree.

~~~
GHFigs
Original thinking being defined by novelty: new ideas and synthesis.
Creatively worthwhile meaning good, usable, aesthetically sound, having value
beyond novelty. The latter is a subset of the former. Or: not all new ideas
are good ideas.

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sgibat
Ritalin != Provigil. I've tried adderall, which is similar enough to Ritalin,
and can anecdotally confirm the article's claim that creativity is reduced
while on the drug. But, Provigil's mechanism is completely different, and I
don't think you can make the same claim about it from anecdotal evidence just
because they both keep you awake. Adderall and its friends do far more than
that.

And if the same claim could be made of Provigil, at best the article's
conclusion could be: There is a time and place for everything.

~~~
swombat
Moreover, it's quite obvious from the article that the author hasn't actually
tried it to justify those comments. I've not tried Ritalin and such, but I
have tried Modafinil. Though there is certainly some downside to the sometimes
a little intense high of it, it definitely has been useful at times (such as
when I was working a full-time job and starting up my company in the evening!)

I haven't noticed any issues with creativity on Modafinil. If anything, I find
that I think of more interesting answers than otherwise - as if my lateral
thinking was enhanced rather than diminished.

Daniel

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delackner
I would have to agree with swombat. As with so many medical topics, many
people instinctively respond without knowing anything about the published
literature, let alone even the broad characteristics of the thing they are
talking about.

Ritalin is a stimulant, like speed or caffeine. They are broad-acting
jackhammers that boost your entire system, including your heart for that
matter. Not exactly something to take lightly.

Modafinil affects the chemicals that the brain uses to regulate wakefulness,
and surprise surprise many of us sleeping too little are actually a little bit
sleepy even when we have just finished sleeping.

Many of the positive effects people ascribe to the drug are simply the effects
of being truly totally awake.

ANYONE considering using modafinil should note that a single 200mg pill is a
far more powerful dose than you probably want. That dosage is for a patient
with severe wakefulness problems, to force their body to stay awake for an
entire day.

Exercise restraint and caution.

~~~
swombat
Agreed - I only ever take 1/2 100mg pills - so 50mg in total - and not every
day. Those are fine to give me a wakeful buzz through the day when I take
them.

Even when I was working on my side business in the mornings and evenings, I
still only got through about 1.5 of those pills a day, so that's a total of
150mg. Bear in mind in those days I was sleeping about 4 hours a night, plus a
1-hour nap sometime in the day. That lasted 6 months, and near the end I
really needed the Modafinil to be productive in that time, otherwise I'd just
curl up and fall asleep with my head on the keyboard :-)

Daniel

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prakash
How did the side business turn out? And, would you pop these pills again in a
similar situation?

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swombat
I quit and went on it full-time. It made a reasonable amount of money, and
then it failed due to a major misunderstanding between me and my business
partner about the goals of the business. I'm now working on another online
business, though the first one is still running and making some modest amount
of money.

I still occasionally use half-pills of 100mg Modafinils (ie 50mg doses),
rarely, when I'm tired for some reason but I want or need to get some solid
work done. Normally, though, I've reverted back to caffeine, for better or for
worse. Occasionally, I also get bored of caffeine and go back to taking
Modafinil regularly for a week or two.

I wouldn't recommend what I did - but not because of the Modafinil. Chronic
lack of sleep just isn't good for you, drugs or no drugs. If I was teleported
back in time to that point and offered that choice under the same
circumstances, but with today's knowledge, I would definitely do it again.

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noonespecial
Wow. Suddenly everyone is using "deleterious". I've seen it 3 times in the
past 2 days. That was my word dammit! Now I'm not going to get those quizzical
looks whenever I use it.

Oh well, I guess it won't be as bad as when the writers of Star Trek usurped
"anomalous". That was a dark day in vocabulary land...

~~~
delackner
Big ideas don't need big words. "Negative" works just fine.

~~~
jraines
"Bad". 1up! Oh, and if it's really bad, just prepend "plus".

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TFrancis
There was almost no information related to Provigil in that article. Sure, we
got the standard, "Drugs are bad. Mmmmm...K?" But, that's just more noise. Why
is is so hard to get signal on this topic?

Besides, I think that it's clear that the brain is a complicated and intricate
combination of chemical reactions. I hardly believe that it can be considered
balanced. Humankind has been self medicating with alcohol for centuries and
the recent uptick in SSRI indicates that our brains may not not in fact be
balanced (relative to the world we currently live in).

But, we're hackers; exploring new systems is what we do.

