
How Cloudflare Helps Serve Up Hate on the Web - ryanlol
https://www.propublica.org/article/how-cloudflare-helps-serve-up-hate-on-the-web
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vorpalhex
I'm the last person to defend Cloudflare. They do a fair bit of crappy things
(treat TOR poorly amongst them).

But, we do have freedom of speech in the US. And while that doesn't mean
everyone has to give you a platform for that speech, it does mean a content
provider needs to decide between being a judge or allowing everything.

Sure, Neo-Nazis seem like an easy case - nobody likes Nazis. But, what about
people calling for a boycott of Israel? Or what about critical political
speech? Should Cloudflare (or anyone) be in the business of making judgements
about those kinds of content and if they're allowed or not?

~~~
untog
I think the more important issue in here is that Cloudflare forward the
personal information of anyone who complains about the site to the site owner.
Other major providers don't do this, and it's not clear that people filing
complaints know what they're getting into.

~~~
vorpalhex
So, if you go to Cloudflare's abuse form
([https://www.cloudflare.com/abuse/form](https://www.cloudflare.com/abuse/form))
they do state:

> CloudFlare will notify the site owner and, where appropriate, the web
> hosting provider for the site in question.

That being said, it's in body sized font, in a huge block of text, and if I
wasn't looking for it, I wouldn't see it.

So, it's "stated" but probably not very clear that abuse reports may be
forwarded. As a webmaster/previous ISP, I expect (again, prior knowledge here)
that abuse complaints will be forwarded. But, does the average person?
Probably not.

My $0.02 - Cloudflare states it, but they need to make it much more clear if
they intend to keep the policy, or possibly revise the policy. However, bad UI
seems a weak reason to vilify them.

\----

Edit: Actually, they state it twice - including right before the submit button
in larger font size. It's pretty hard to miss.

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mnm1
The use of improper SSL termination and re-captchas that take sometimes up to
20 minutes to complete (for one CAPTCHA, fuck you Google!) are much more
atrocious abuses than the existence of some hate speech on sites they host.
I'd much rather see them address those actual problems than read about some
bitchiness that they won't censor their content. I actually agree with
Cloudflare on this. Yes, the Daily Stormer might be an easy site to assess and
block (I don't know, I've never visited), but once you're in the business of
censorship, the censorship wing of the organization will eat up tons of
resources and is guaranteed to turn away customers. See any major Internet
company for plenty of examples of this. It seems to me that by not engaging
with this stupidity, they are making a wise business decision.

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rexicus
Complain to their web host then, Cloudflare has nothing to do with this unless
you're arguing there's a right to DDoS them.

~~~
schwanksta
The only way to get information about their web host is to submit to
Cloudflare's abuse form, which, well...

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frik
Why is the story hidden?

Ever since Cloudbleed effected so many sites and exposed TLS protected data to
everyone incl search engine spiders, we should have moved on.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13721452](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13721452)

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nilved
Cloudflare is one of the worst companies there is. They weaken the security of
the web. They block Tor users from using many popular websites. They host
websites that offer the same DDOS services they will charge you for protection
from. The day Cloudflare dies, which should have been the day Cloudbleed was
discovered, will become an annual holiday for the Internet.

~~~
Exuma
That seems like quite a bit of an exaggeration. CloudFlare is great for a lot
of reasons, and they have their faults just like every other company out
there.

~~~
nilved
Do you have any thoughts on my post rather than "no?"

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QUFB
_Cloudflare also has an added appeal to sites such as The Daily Stormer. It
turns over to the hate sites the personal information of people who criticize
their content. For instance, when a reader figures out that Cloudflare is the
internet company serving sites like The Daily Stormer, they sometimes write to
the company to protest. Cloudflare, per its policy, then relays the name and
email address of the person complaining to the hate site, often to the
surprise and regret of those complaining._

 _This has led to campaigns of harassment against those writing in to protest
the offensive material. People have been threatened and harassed._

Really, Cloudflare? It's one thing to provide a CDN service for these these
sites; turning over this information is completely different.

~~~
rabite
cloudflare is _legally obligated_ , like all ISPs, to forward DMCA complaints.
do you think copyright claims should be done anonymously?

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detaro
Complaints about sites people don't like very likely are not DMCA complaints.

