
Show HN: Kaffee Bitte, specialty coffee delivery for Germany - hannes2000
https://kaffeebitte.de
======
andor
Mmmh, coffee.

* "Versand innerhalb einer Woche nach Röstung" \-- but how long after I order? I'm a spoiled Amazon Prime customer, and I can buy specialty coffee locally at a cafe, and so-so fresh roasted coffee at one of several roasters in my city of ~300k.

* The mandatory subscription is more of a hassle for me. I like to buy fresh groceries (and coffee) when I need them. One more thing to worry about when I go traveling: how many weeks of coffee can my mailbox fit?

On the other hand, subscriptions are great for offices, but which company
orders specialty grade coffee? I wouldn't waste it on the typical fully
automatic Jura.

* It doesn't say "specialty coffee" on the page, just "frisch geröstet" and "großartig" (everybody can claim that). I was very confused at first, but spent some time to look closer _only because you explicitly said so in the submission title_. Since there are several roasters in my city, "fresh" is where I start at, it's not interesting by itself.

I don't think you should completely rebrand the beans. Bonanza Coffee is well-
known among your target audience, whereas you are some new guys that I don't
know if I can trust yet. I'd try to build more on the credibility of the
established roasters. A Bonanza bag in the hero image would have been an
instant signal.

* The espresso in the hero image has zero crema. Not every coffee gives lots of crema, but for the title image I'd pick one that does, and extract it properly:

[http://www.home-barista.com/knockbox/lets-see-your-tiger-
str...](http://www.home-barista.com/knockbox/lets-see-your-tiger-
stripes-t23996-10.html)

* As others have already stated, the registration step is too early in the order flow. I don't want to register before I know that a) I want your stuff, b) the product is on stock and c) I'm okay with all the terms and conditions. Maybe the one coffee that I wanted is sold out, maybe you ship with Hermes or require Paypal. I'd like to know as much of this as possible before handing out my data.

* Phoenix Coffee from Dresden is pretty good

~~~
quinndupont
I hope they provide roast-on dates, otherwise you can basically assume it
isn't fresh. With fast logistics and shipping you can get 1-week old roasted
coffee from roaster to subscription service to doorstep though (Craft Coffee
does this).

~~~
hannes2000
Yep, all our packages have the roasting date on the label. The German post
delivers over night in the vicinity of Berlin and in 1-2days elsewhere in
Germany. We usually send the coffee out on the same day it arrives from the
roasters.

------
quinndupont
Their website is disturbing close to the excellent North America premium
coffee service I use, Craft Coffee (@craftcoffee ;
[https://www.craftcoffee.com/](https://www.craftcoffee.com/)). Maybe it's just
me, or maybe it's just the red logo and brown vac bags, but this kind of
smacks of that crappy "just different enough to not be infringement" move.

Besides that (and Germans need coffee too!), getting premium coffee delivered
is such an amazing thing. I now live in a smaller Canadian city and my fresh
roasted, premium coffee options have declined. I've been enjoying Craft Coffee
for several months now and not only is the product excellent (I do regular
reviews on Twitter, @quinndupont), they are a really great group of people who
are always willing to reach out and help or just take suggestions. A start up
that actually listens and cares; it's the main reason why I like to support
new businesses.

[Edit: one of the best things about Craft Coffee is that they source their
fresh-roasted beans from all over North America, so you get the cream of the
crop from roasters you'd never be able to enjoy otherwise; you get three
different roasters each month.]

And, if you happen to sign up for Craft Coffee (I totally recommend it!), they
offer a 15% off coupon code. Look around for a friend's code (they get a free
month if you sign up), or (trying not to spam here...) use mine: quinn1922.

~~~
X4
A) I actually thought they ARE the german sibling of craftcoffee, but thanks
for the clarification. They indeed look like a copy, but I don't mind that as
long it doesn't lack in the execution and quality.

B) Since you seem to be a coffee expert: What sort of coffee has a very low
acidic profile, whilst having being strong and aromatic?

C) To use the service you need to own a EUR 1000+ coffee machine, which only
rich people have, or am I wrong?

~~~
quinndupont
a) I don't believe they are associated with Craft Coffee, but I'm just a
pleased customer, with no inside information. They looks very, very similar,
but with just enough difference to suggest that they are separate. Craft
Coffee only supplies NA, so, I guess I'm happy to see similar companies for
the Germans, and the Brits, etc.

b) I wouldn't call myself an expert, but I'd suggest you look at more of the
"newer" West coast style of roasts. Look for "medium" roast beans; the old
"full city" (or darker) will give you the strength, but little else. Growing
location will not have as much of an impact on those qualities as the roast
(different regions tend to have different aromatics, but if you aren't picky
about berries versus vegetal versus leather, then ignore the growing source).
As for the combination of all of those qualities, it might be tricky: "strong"
usually comes at the expense of "aromatic", and "acidity" may be present no
matter (although, for my palette, "bitterness" is MUCH more important than
acidity--some acidity can be quite nice). The basic tips to get quality coffee
are: (medium roast) beans between 3 days and 2 weeks old, use more coffee than
you would think is correct (best is to weigh your beans & water), have your
water temp at about 95c (not boiling), and make the amount of time between
grind and brew as short as possible (ideally <10seconds).

c) Certainly not! My daily brew method is an Aeropress
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AeroPress](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AeroPress))
available on Amazon or better cafes for <$40 (including all the filters and
everything). It only makes a cup at a time, but if you are drinking solo this
works (and it takes <2 min start-to-finish to brew). Alternatively, try a
"pour over", which is really just a holder for a coffee filter, which you can
pick up for $5 practically anywhere (most people think of it as "camping
style" but they are totally wrong!). Or, French press (<$40), which won't have
the aromatics of the other two methods, but will make a nice strong cup. Also,
consider splurging on a good (burr) grinder (~$100), it is WAY more important
than your "machine".

~~~
X4
Awesome!

Thanks for the detailed answer, sir :)

------
dazu
Reminds me of Pact (www.pactcoffee.com) which is a subscription-based-
specialty-coffee-delivery company serving the UK (or at least London). I've
used them and liked the service. I see how people that are really serious
about their coffee could use a service like this.

~~~
hannes2000
Indeed! We actually know the Pact guys – they're doing a terrific job in the
UK.

~~~
etherealG
Any chance you or them know of a similar service in France? I've just
discovered Pact in the UK and am about to move :(

~~~
mikenyc
Craft Coffee ships to France now.
[http://www.craftcoffee.com/international](http://www.craftcoffee.com/international)

------
terhechte
There's also sonntagmorgen.com, who have been in this space since 2007. I know
the founder and he's a really great guy, pulled this of while he was studying.
Also, over Christmas, they always offer a coffee "Advent Calendar" with a
small bag of a different type of coffee for every day up to the 24th.

That's always a small christmas highlight for me, and I enjoy it much more
than the chocolate stuff that other calendars tend to offer.

I tend to consume a lot of coffee and I'm always happy to find new deliverers
with new coffees, so I'll give this a try. Best of luck!

~~~
hannes2000
Thanks! I only know the Sonntagmorgen guys from their videos, but they seem to
be really nice.

------
hannes2000
If you'd like to try it, you'll get 20% off your first three bags with the
code 'hackernews'!

~~~
bornabox
Will you guys start sending to Switzerland? We're soo close :)

~~~
mikenyc
Craft Coffee ships to Switzerland now.
[http://www.craftcoffee.com/international](http://www.craftcoffee.com/international)

------
gingerlime
Looks great. This is a kind of "stole my idea" sites that I'm very happy to
see.

When I lived in the UK, I ordered coffee from hasbean[0], which is totally
great. It's still available from Germany, but delivery cost and time makes it
less appealing.

Was looking for something similar when I moved to Berlin, but couldn't find
anything like that so far[1].

It does seem a bit pricey at a first glance (although it includes postage,
right?), and selection is a bit limited... Couldn't work out the frequency and
whether or not it's a subscription or you just order online when you want? my
German + Google translate are not enough to figure this out.

Keep at it and hope you enjoy the Burgers at BBI near your office :)

[0] hasbean.co.uk

[1] I'm currently ordering online from solvino.de and they offer quite a wide
selection from a nice roasters in Hamburg.

~~~
gingerlime
A small suggestion: let people choose the coffee first, and only register or
pay later. I think it will be a more engaging experience.

I would encourage to remove registration completely or make it optional and
let people pay by credit card / paypal for a quick and easy ordering
experience.

~~~
hannes2000
Thanks, that's great feedback! In the beginning we thought, that the German
word for subscription has a negative connotation, so we tried to rather call
it "continuous delivery". But I agree, it's a lot better to just be really
clear about everything. We're working on improving the messaging in that
regard.

It is pricey, but it's also really great coffee, that is imported and roasted
in small batches with lots of love :) The compensation is passed through to
the producer, so everybody gets a fair amount of money – the prices the
farmers get are a multiple of the normal fair trade prices, and decoupled from
the world market prices because of the higher quality.

I do enjoy the burgers, whenever I can handle standing in line for a while,
haha :)

~~~
gingerlime
Thanks for clarifying. Yes, I heard that people in Germany are scared of long
'Abos' that they can't cancel.

It makes any subscription-based business harder to build here. Even if you
offer complete flexibility to cancel any time, people are worried there must
be a 'catch'.

------
webhat
A friend does something similar in the Netherlands. He's interviews people on
their preferences and sending them coffee based on their preferences.

~~~
radicalbyte
Hmm, I might have been a customer of his. It's worth shopping before someone
fills the machine with something disgusting like Aroma Rood.. ;)

~~~
webhat
I posted the link in reply to one of the other queries.

------
mlent
I will definitely look into this more when I'm back from holiday. Has anyone
else found that getting good coffee in Germany is quite difficult? Or is it
just that my city (Leipzig) is a bit of a coffee desert?

Anyways. Best wishes, and you will probably find a customer in me!

------
weitzj
for good tea I really like
[https://www.teekampagne.de/en](https://www.teekampagne.de/en)

~~~
Tomte
Since cooking and foodstuff seems to be right on topic here at HN, can someone
give me a short overview what the differences (practically drinking) between
Darjeeling and Assam are?

Beside the obvious geographical difference, of course.

~~~
xhedley
Darjeeling is more aromatic and (for a fermented black tea) tastes quite close
to a green tea. Assam tastes stronger and is more astringent on the mouth when
drunk without milk.

I always imagined that the difference in flavours reflected the different
geographies - delicate growth in the Darjeeling hills versus robust growth in
the warmer Assam plains. It might also be differences in the way the teas are
fermented.

~~~
Tomte
Thank you!

------
thesimon
Don't you have to list the base price like price per 100 gram or 1 kilo?

~~~
hannes2000
Good point, I'll find that out. Thanks!

------
ntaso
Really great explanations of how to make coffee and how to store it. Thanks!

~~~
weitzj
The explanations inspired me to find out more how to make a good espresso. And
I found this site, which has some nice articles. [http://www.home-
barista.com/](http://www.home-barista.com/)

------
jglauche
I stumbled on the link yesterday and decided not to get the subscription. I'm
basically okay with having stuff sent to me in regular distances. I also like
to try new stuff!

What I dislike is making a subscription to something that I haven't tried yet.
So in case I dislike the product, I have to remember to cancel it in order to
not get any more of the product that I dislike. That adds a lot of burden in
advance to ordering it.

Furthermore, on the page "Jetzt starten" I'd like to select the product(s)
first, before entering my personal information.

------
guico
Hey!

In the end of last year I created something like what your doing here
(www.hotcoffeeclub.com), also with customers in Germany and also posted it to
HN just as you did
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6818369](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6818369)),
not sure if you saw it at the time.

About 8 months in I've definitely learned a bunch and I ultimately decided to
stop doing it couple of months ago (the website is not run by me anymore). If
you'd like to have a chat my email is on my profile.

~~~
endlessvoid94
Hi guico, I'd love to chat if you'd be willing. I'm doing something very, very
similar and would love to pick your brain!

I'm dpaola2 [at] gmail if you'd be willing to email me :-)

------
Semaphor
Trying this out with some Ayichesh :)

I'll actually have to check my mailbox now, usually anything important is sent
via DHL and they usually come by twice daily ;)

------
underlines
Business model:

1\. Find something people need to buy regularly anyways

2\. Buy a 20$ one page design from themeforrest and modify it

3\. Let people subscribe to the service to send them the item on a regular
basis

4\. Hope that enough people are too lazy to just buy things like normal people
would do

5\. Repeat the whole business model with every item you normally buy when you
do your groceries, like: blacksocks (overpriced socks), mymusli (overpriced
cerials) etc.

~~~
brackin
What's wrong with this? If they're delivering coffee German's can't get
otherwise, at a fair price for the connivence then it works for everyone.
People complain on HN about startups with vague, long term, lofty business
models but this is the opposite.

Coffee is different to socks because people that like good coffee won't buy it
from anywhere.

------
sushimako
I love coffee with a passion! When buying coffee, i usually want to choose the
quality/origin, the darkness of the roast and the grind (whole bean or
_freshly_ fine-ground).

If i go to $healthfoodstore around the corner i have a variety of high
quality, dark roasted whole bean espresso from different regions. I would be
tempted to say that the store's prices are almost always lower than your
offering _and_ i can smell the 250g bag of bliss before i spend 12eu on it.
How do you compete with that? (given that you consider people with my level of
coffee-affection your target audience)

Fresh roasted needs to be more than "roasted sometime before we ship it" for
me to make a difference.

Offer a subscription, where you put a coffee roaster in my kitchen. Every week
you send me $amount of high-quality, well sourced green coffee beans from
different regions. I put some of them them in my KBRoaster(tm), push the "dark
roast" button, kitchen starts smelling like heaven and only 7 minutes later i
enjoy my fresh cup of fresh roasted, fresh ground espresso, directly from a
farm on the volcanoes of the guatemalan central highlands! Thanks for the
little bag with fermented cacao beans you put into this weeks package together
with a note that espresso and pure cacao go well together. If you roast it at
your place and ship it dark to me, my kitchen does not smell like heaven in
the morning.

Lastly, the grinding process is (imo) where most of the freshness gets
lost.[0] Fresh ground is way more important than fresh roasted. Freshl-roasted
is only a selling point if you show me that you are actually fresher than
$healthfoodstore. Example: provide very fast delivery for the region around
your roaster, offering "it's still warm when it arrives" quality.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_roasting#Packaging](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_roasting#Packaging)

    
    
      Roasted coffee has an optimal typical shelf life 
      of 2 weeks, and ground coffee about 15 minutes.

~~~
andor
_If i go to $healthfoodstore around the corner i have a variety of high
quality, dark roasted espresso from different regions. I would be tempted to
say that the store 's prices are almost always lower than your offering_

Good point. The coffee they sell is much more upmarket than what you can get
at $healthfoodstore, but the site doesn't make it clear. The beans they use
are more expensive, and they are probably roasted more carefully. Grocery
store brands typically use an industrial high-volume and high-temperature
roasting process, instead of small batches and lower temperatures. If you need
2 tons, would you rather do 100 batches of 20kgs for 20 minutes each, or one
large batch in only 10 minutes?

Phoenix Coffee Roasters are transparent about their costs [0], they pay up to
4 times of the regular exchange price for green beans:

 _We purchased this coffee for USD 10,60 /kg through Nordic Approach. At the
same time the stock exchange price for green coffee was 2,50 EUR/kg, for Faire
Trade certificated coffee 3,00 EUR/kg. Our production costs (taxes,
transportation, packaging, etc.) mount up to 7,50 EUR/kg roasted coffee. Our
overall costs are 15,80 EUR/kg, plus labour costs and VAT._ (These beans sell
for 35.30 EUR/kg)

Maybe a line like "coffee from Germany's best roasters" would make some people
interested.

 _I put some of them them in my KBRoaster(tm), push the "dark roast" button,
kitchen starts smelling like heaven and only 7 minutes later i enjoy my fresh
cup of fresh roasted, fresh ground espresso_

Have you done this before? Your kitchen will smell like hell and your fire
alarm might go off ;-) Also, you should wait a few days for the beans to
release all the CO2 from roasting.

 _Roasted coffee has an optimal typical shelf life of 2 weeks_

Citation needed :-) I'd say it's best between the second and eight week.

[0] [http://www.phoenix-coffeeroasters.com/en/red.html](http://www.phoenix-
coffeeroasters.com/en/red.html)

------
spindritf
It's all in German for me. Is there a language switch somewhere?

~~~
hannes2000
Hi Spindritf, sorry, we don't have an English site yet, as we currently only
deliver within Germany. I'd be glad to help you with any questions though,
just ask here or send me an email to hannes@kaffeebitte.com.

~~~
Entalpi
You guys would do _great_ in Sweden. We consume loads of coffee and there is a
large following of coffee - we even have a national time for coffee and
bakeries called 'fika'. :-)

~~~
hannes2000
That's great to hear :) I love coffee from Sweden, some of the swedish
roasters/cafés are very high on my to do list for my next short trip.

------
kriro
I've been a customer of Green Cup Coffee. Do you know them? I have no
subscription (don't think they offer that) and just order whenever I need some
new coffee though.

~~~
hannes2000
Yeah, I know them! Their roast is quite different from what our roasters
usually do. You should give us a try :) You can cancel your subscription
anytime without notice. You'll get 20% off your first three packs with the
code 'hackernews'.

------
aluhut
I wish we wouldn't have a deal with the coffe machine reseller where we have
to take their coffe... This would have been great.

Gute Idee! Werde es weitersagen :)

~~~
hannes2000
Nice, thanks und danke :)

------
ginko
That seems rather pricey even for specialty coffee. I usually buy at a great
small roastery here in Vienna and 500g of coffee usually go for 10-15€.

~~~
andor
40 EUR/kg nothing unusual for "specialty coffee" as understood by the SCAA.
Specialty means the best possible quality, without any defects in smell or
taste.

------
CookWithMe
What is your USP compared to Coffee Circle (except for the subscription part)?

~~~
hannes2000
We offer coffees from a couple of German specialty roasters (currently
Bonanza/Berlin and JB/Schwabhausen with a couple more coming soon), so we have
a much greater variety.

Apart from that, our focus really lies on convenience for the customer. That
means letterbox-friendly packages, outstanding customer support and additional
value through recommendations. For example, we can advise you a coffee based
on your brew method.

~~~
mariusblaesing
We are a Coffee Circle customer at our startup and your only real
differentiation from CC are the letterbox-friendly packages. I assume this
means 350g or less? Nevertheless, good idea, but it will be expensive for you
;)

~~~
hannes2000
Hey Marius, yeah, we ship 250g packages!

------
ohjeez
You had me at "coffee."

------
tckr
Fair pricing and two thumbs up for your shipping concept.

~~~
hannes2000
Thanks tckr!

