

Internship in SF led to a fulltime job offer – should I drop out and take it? - colinarms

Hi, I&#x27;m going into my second half of my third year of computer engineering at a top university in Canada, and I&#x27;m currently on co-op at a well funded tech startup in SF (~50 people, raised 100+ million). I recently received a fulltime offer with a 105k salary and competitive amount of equity.<p>Here are my reasons for considering dropping out and taking it:<p>1) I don&#x27;t like my program - a lot of the circuits&#x2F;embedded systems will not be applicable to my career post-graduation. I tried transferring to Software Engineering but it was full<p>2) The salary and equity is competitive. I truly believe this company has a good chance at succeeding, so the equity could be worth something<p>3) I&#x27;d probably just work here post-graduation either way, so I&#x27;m not sure if going to school for 2 years then coming back here would be a good idea, when I could just stay here right now. (and, I probably wouldn&#x27;t even be getting equity in 2 years considering the company is growing exponentially right now)<p>4) This company is very well known by recruiters in the Valley, and the people working here are all extremely brilliant, so this is a fantastic opportunity (both for my resume and for the skills I&#x27;d gain)<p>Thoughts, opinions? I&#x27;ve heard that I could easily get accepted back to UW a couple years down the line if I decide to go back? Also, how important are degrees really for top companies including Google and Facebook?<p>I have a meeting with our immigration lawyer tomorrow, but I was told that I could get a TN visa no problem (through a loophole - there is another person who was exactly in my position who&#x27; currently on a TN, so I know this does happen), then after a year get an H1 and eventually a greencard. Gonna clarify this with our lawyer.
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eshvk
1\. I think you are being underpaid if you are going to live in SF and get
paid 105K for a company that is both well funded, and very well known. Unless
your equity is very very significant.

2\. Companies don't disappear in two years; if they do, you don't want to join
that company. There is no hurry for you to join the company now. In fact, you
could intern every year and continue to build relationships in the valley and
come back.

3\. Degrees aren't that important for top companies.

4\. You need to talk to the immigration lawyer. I don't think you can apply
for an H1B without at least a Bachelors degree. The TN visa does not let you
apply for a Green Card directly.

~~~
axoltl
$105k is a livable wage in San Francisco, but expect about half of that
paycheck to disappear into rent and about a quarter or a third going towards
food and whatnot. On the other hand, my salary at this point isn't my main
source of income, my stock grants are.

As for the immigration, I can confirm that you need at least a bachelors
degree. I went through the H1-B (and GC) process and you can pretty much
forget about it if you can't show at least equivalency. The main reason I
finished mine and didn't do the exact thing you did (but 6 years ago) was for
visa eligibility.

Be careful about saying TN, H1-B and GC in the same sentence. While an H1-B is
a dual-intent visa (meaning you can pursue a GC), a TN is not. If you show
intent to stay on a TN visa, that can hurt your chances in the future. This
should be fine to talk about with your lawyer, but mum's the word when dealing
with anyone in an official capacity.

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brudgers
Congratulations on the offer. Obviously they want you.

On one hand, there's a lot to recommend putting off the start of your career.
On the other, if you're already awesome as a rising junior, you'll probably
not be any less awesome as a graduate and have opportunities at that point.
For me, the kicker is that you cannot get into the program you want at your
university, and studying something that you don't love borders on tragedy [in
the large, not on a class by class basis].

However, unless the employer is paying for the immigration attorney, I'd be
skeptical of the prospects just based on my lay person's reading of the TN
Visa requirements [1] and the description of the plan of attack as a loophole
and the next step as an H1 visa.

Good luck.

[1]:
[http://www.nafsa.org/_/file/_/amresource/8cfr2146.htm](http://www.nafsa.org/_/file/_/amresource/8cfr2146.htm)

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_pius
You'll never be in college at college age again. Meanwhile, you'll have your
whole life to work in the Valley. Unless this job is really something amazing,
stay in school.

Of course if you find yourself violently recoiling at that argument, that'll
tell you something too.

~~~
colinarms
That's definitely a valid reason - I'm having a blast in school, so I guess
I'm just naively eager to begin working (since this past co-op term in SF has
been one of the greatest times of my life). I guess SF won't be going
anywhere, and it'll be just as good in the future.

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nrmitchi
If you're banking being able to get back into UW in a few years if you change
your mind, you should also talk to someone at the school about that. As well,
banking on a loophole to get a work visa (the TN restrictions are pretty
specific about needing a degree in the field) seems like a pretty risky idea.

I have a strong feeling I know what company you're talking about as well (and
no, I don't believe it's Github as someone else here does), I have to say that
even if the company is full of brilliant people, you should also consider the
relative risks in the field that they operate in. Bitcoin can be a risky
business, even for the golden child.

My overall recommendation would be to stick with your degree. In a year and a
half you wont have to worry about whether or not you can return to an
undergrad if you wish, nor worry that a visa loophole will come back to bite
you in the ass. If something happens and you need to find a new job, you wont
have to worry about having to find one that will be willing to risk dealing
with visa loopholes. Not to mention that you sound like you still have 2 coop
terms left. Even here you could very likely return to this specific company
for those terms if you wish, or (my recommendation) take advantage of the
terms to explore different options.

~~~
colinarms
I'm scheduling a call with my academic advisor sometime this week. I'm in good
standing at school, and I take part in a bunch of extracurriculars, so even if
I have to re-apply I don't think it would be difficult to get accepted again.

Agreed about the visa though - I have a call scheduled with an immigration
lawyer tomorrow, so I'll determine how difficult it is (if it's even possible)
to get an H1 or GC.

Thank you for your other points - seriously, much appreciated.

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jtf2
If you're even close to going forward with this, definitely lawyer up.
Especially considering you're talking about a "loophole". Also talk with an
accountant who has helped people in this situation, as that can cause some big
surprises when it comes to what you owe at tax time.

Consider where you're leaving behind: KW is a rad area; I've been here in the
startup world for just over 3 years (born and raised not too far away). A
decent starting offer here is $60-80k, potentially more if you're at a 'name
brand' company (I started at $65k for reference, with $50k the number I had in
mind to stay local after wrapping up my CS degree). The cost of living here is
way less than SF, so there's lots left over for actually spending on living.

If you really want to be in a city, go an hour east to Toronto and make your
mark there.

I know the valley is a mystical, magical place, but if you're putting
salary/equity high up on your list of "Pros", consider that you could do just
as well, or better, in the area (when looking at purchasing power, cost of
living, etc).

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lsiebert
Get your degree.

Seriously, the lack of a CS degree will screw you over. Maybe not with this
job, but you don't expect to work at this place for your whole career, right?

~~~
anon3_
Pretty much this.

You'll see "or equivalent experience" but you'd be surprised at how many web
startups using bootstrap will test you for data structures + algorithms chops.

As an example: I'm talking about hopping on skype for front-end jobs in
angular, and they have some guy snickering at me not being able to solve a
pathfinding equation.

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jcfrei
If you are certain that you can go back to uni anytime and finish your degree
then I don't really see why you shouldn't go for the job. Degrees matter if
you don't have a lot of experience (something like less than 5 years) in the
industry you are trying to work for. degrees might look like they don't matter
much at the moment (because software engineers are in high demand) - but that
can change quickly.

~~~
setpatchaddress
Completely agreed. I would add that 105k seems high as a starting salary for a
software engineer at a sustainable startup, so either you have unique
capabilities, or the startup is super well-funded, or the startup is burning
cash at an unsustainable rate. It might be interesting to discover what the
story is (diplomatically!) before you commit.

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audleman
I would take the job, but find out exactly how long you can postpone your
schooling and return in good standing.

What I learned in college wasn't really relevant to what I do as a
professional. Will you miss out on the theoretical underpinnings without
finishing your degree? Meh. I'd say yes if you were building hardware (where
the physical properties of what you're building are well understood and define
the project), but software is changing and evolving all the time. The only way
to know how to do it right is to be a part of what's happening right now.

I don't personally know about what avenues are closed without a degree (e.x.
large companies). I suspect tech has some of the lowest requirements for a
pedigree if you've got a proven track record.

A word of caution: A friend went back to finish his degree some time after he
dropped out, and found out he had just barely missed the deadline. All of his
credits were now expired and he would have had to start over as a freshman.
Just make sure that doesn't happen.

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asvoboda
Having been in the same situation, I picked staying at UW, and I graduated
this past June.

You can always come back and do another coop at the same employer. As someone
in 3A or 3B, you are really close to the end of your studies (and the courses
in 4th year, along with FYDP, are the best parts of the program). Others have
addressed some of the financial points. Obviously talking to a lawyer is a
good idea.

Send me an email (in my profile), if you want to talk more about this.

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Blackthorn
Stay in school. You're in 3.5 years already, just finish it out. If they
really like you, they'll understand and the offer will remain open for when
you finish.

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casparov
If you don't have plans to pursue a career in the academia, then I think you
should take the job. You can also discuss it with any university rep to find
out until when you could possibly go back to where you stopped should you wish
to finish your degree in the future.

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onedev
I'm going to venture a guess and say this company is GitHub.

Not a bad gig, and honestly if I were you, I'd take it. A degree really isn't
that important anyway (for the goals you have, which I assume is to become a
great engineer and build top notch products)

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soleil4ever
I'd finish my degree before embarking a formal job. There are plenty fishes in
the pond. Without a degree, it's a problem for your every job search
afterwards.

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rajacombinator
Be careful ... I would be surprised if you can get an H1B or GC with no
college degree.

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late2part
Tell them you will work for them from Canada while you finish your degree.

~~~
colinarms
I asked that, and they didn't seem very eager for remote work. Additionally,
I'd be getting no equity if I did this.

