

Over Our Heads - gabriel
http://therumpus.net/2009/06/over-our-heads/

======
bokonist
In general, people tend to view their own level of book smarts as the optimal
level. In high school a fellow student was a math genius who made into the
U.S. math Olympiad at age ~14. He could do fractions in his head to multiple
significant figures. In my mind I would come with justifications about how I
was more rounded than him, and that he was too focused on math. Meanwhile, my
brother always had much more trouble with math than I did. He would criticize
me for being too nerdy, too into math, and "working too hard". Of course, to
me it was fun and rewarding. I was good at it, so I did not view myself as
"working too hard". In turn, the jocks at school made fun of my brother for
being too nerdy. He would criticize them as being "dumb jocks". Meanwhile the
jocks would make fun of the special ed kids for being so dumb.

Ability varies. Some people are innately good at math, some people are not. No
one wants to have a value system where they are inevitably inferior. So people
develop a value system in which their natural ability level is the ideal
level.

~~~
Maro
Yes, and as the article points out, this behaviour is sub-optimal. You should
always be debugging yourself and figuring out how to improve. Eg. what can you
learn from "jocks"? They work out a lot and are/look healthy, which leads to
success with girls. Take that and internalize it. What can you learn from...
and so on.

------
christopherolah
I blame the teachers. Not all of them, just two major categories.

Category #1 ``Math Illiterate Teachers'' : These teachers don't actually know
any real math. They memorize a lesson out of the texbook and present it to the
class. The problem is that it convinces students that math is magic: it works,
but don't ask why.

Category #2 ``Underestimaters'' : These teachers are competent in their
subject, but have given up on the majority of their class. These students are
already convinced that math is magic and attempts to teach math in any way but
rote memorization result in loosing them. Thus they give endless `examples'
and `special cases' and `flowcharts' in hope that these students can memorize
enough to pass the finals and go on to be art students.

I've talked to both categories of teachers. #1 is generally aware that they
know nothing, but feels it is unimportant (one told me that other teachers
down the road would be able to explain things so she just had to get them to
do things). #2 generally feels that this is the only way possible: some
students just can't grasp math.

Another part of the problem is textbooks. IMHO, they over-complicate topics by
giving to much explanation. Brief answers are easier for students to grasp and
make the textbook more approachable. You can break concepts into smaller
concepts and give secondary more detailed explanations where necessary
instead. I'm working on writing a open source math textbook on this approach
(sorry for self promotion):
<http://christopherolah.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/math1.pdf> . Feedback and
help are appreciated.

~~~
blogimus
I'll add a third: The storyteller.

This teacher is more interested in off topic discussions and spinning yarns
than teaching or discussing the topic. Results being he (or she) does not
spend enough time actually teaching and engaging the students.

Might not be so bad on fluff topics, but can be damaging when this is your 7th
grade algebra teacher.

------
xel02
The article mentions that one of the consequences of numerical illiteracy is
the formation of a technocracy. From the looks of our current culture it seems
like the opposite. Government is filled with politicians not of a
scientific/mathematical background but instead capable of rhetoric (or not
capable at all =D).

I think the actual effect is that a government stagnates technologically
because the numerically illiterate masses tend to vote for people who share
their opinions, and hence there is a void of technocrats in government.

The trend seems to be changing now though, possibly because those 'smart'
people (like the readers of HN) are making money, and impressing others. Blogs
probably also increase the sociability of 'nerds' and they are sharing their
opinions in a medium that the masses can read and appreciate.

~~~
gabriel
_Government is filled with politicians not of a scientific/mathematical
background but instead capable of rhetoric (or not capable at all =D)._

The word _instead_ stuck out to me here, because I don't think these two
qualities are an either/or quality.

Further, don't be so quick to demonize the rhetorician. Unfortunately the
Rhetoric today is all but extinct, to the point that the word is used
derogatorily, much like the word _Hacker_.

You want to make a difference today? Learn rhetoric. Take two weeks and
research the term. Find the people who spoke directly to this issue. Your
search will take you to the limits of the history of ideas.

I agree, xel02, that a rhetorician must not be solely a rhetorician. That
would be like a Hacker who only chooses Hacker methods of communication and
then wonder why he/she gets blackballed in the workplace and why no one
listens.

Being an expert, by itself, isn't enough to entitle one to the responsibility
of speaking for others. The rhetoric, lets now say the Politician, has the
responsibility to make decisions for a group, and while these decisions
require technocratic involvement, they have other non-technocratic elements to
be considered.

~~~
ableal
I, as an engineer, was appalled to learn from a lawyer that they didn't study
rhetoric in law school in our corner of Europe. And debate teams, in high-
school or whenever - forget it.

That's like sending soldiers to war without a single visit to the shooting
range. Never mind the common citizen.

------
quoderat
I love math and recognize its supreme importance, but anything beyond long
division is beyond me.

Some people have dyscalculia:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyscalculia>

~~~
christopherolah
Depending on your age and the severity of your condition, you may be able to
overcome it with sufficient effort thanks to neuroplasticity:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroplasticity>

Note that I don't mean to down play your disability, I'm sure that it is a
severe impairment and I don't mean to imply that it is `your fault' for not
working hard enough. For what it's worth, I had similar disabilities with
writing and social comprehension. I was greatly helped by the Arrowsmith
School:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrowsmith_School>

------
Dobbs
Felt this was relevant to the article:
<http://www.maa.org/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf>

------
robryan
I find the issue runs in programming as well although less important in day to
day life it is certainly an advantage to know whats going on with the programs
and websites the average person uses.

What I find more frustrating is when people in computer science courses
basically dismiss something your explaining to them to be over there heads.

