
Costco will not allow returns on high-demand items like toilet paper, water - mmhsieh
https://www.today.com/food/costco-not-allowing-returns-high-demand-items-toilet-paper-t176417
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Exmoor
Costco has done a really good job of handling this tough situation. Beyond
this, I've noticed a few other things:

* Stock most items overnight so that if you absolutely need something you can prioritize getting there before they open and likely getting it rather than having to come back over and over (or go to multiple other stores), which limits exposure.

* Set aside additional hours before the general opening for seniors.

* Limit high-demand items. This does have some perverse ramifications for a few items. For instance, we wanted about 4 dozen eggs to get us through a few weeks. Unfortunately the smaller packs were limited to 1 so we ended up having to buy 5 dozen.

* Flood the market with in-demand items to create confidence. I think this is a Seattle thing, but last week I started seeing social mediate posts showing literal aisles composed of nothing but toilet paper. Many people (myself included to some extent) are just just buying because they don't want to get caught without TP when they run out, but if they feel that it's likely it will be in stock they won't rush out to buy some immediately.

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dannyw
Yes! By flooding the market to create an over abundance of TP, you reduce our
innate anxieties to panic buy.

These actions can do a lot to alleviate panic not only at Costco, but other
retailers too.

~~~
khazhoux
I especially liked the CNN headline last week: "People are panic-buying TP and
stores are running out."

Gee, I wonder what effect that will have?

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klipt
Getting more clicks, which is what profit seeking corporations optimize for,
regardless of the externalities.

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Fjolsvith
Can't waste a good crisis. Just like those senators today.

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_bxg1
My favorite part of this is that it implies grifters are failing to offload
their stock. They bought it all hoping to profit off of shortages, and then
not only did Amazon and Ebay clamp down on reselling, _there isn 't actually a
shortage_. Justice.

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dehrmann
> grifters are failing to offload their stock

The word you're looking for is arbitrageur. Or scalper. Grifter implies some
thing dishonest. Arbitrageurs are very up-front with what they're doing, and
you get exactly why you're paying for.

~~~
reitzensteinm
There is dishonesty in this situation. If you ask Costco if it's ok to buy
lots of toilet paper to resell, they'll say no.

By buying in bulk to arbitrage you're acting against the interests of Costco
and their customers, and hoping you fly under the radar.

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gruez
>There is dishonesty in this situation. If you ask Costco if it's ok to buy
lots of toilet paper to resell, they'll say no.

That's debatable. Plenty of small businesses buy Costco stuff to resell, or
for business use. They even have business memberships! Unless they have
explicit no resell notices (although even then it's unclear what legal force
they have), I wouldn't say it's dishonest.

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rayhendricks
Costco literally is designed as a small business supply warehouse. There are
some Costco they cater exclusively to this. Now not trying to price gouge in a
pandemic is another thing.

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exclusiv
My first thought was - who returns toilet paper!?!

But I suppose if you're a hoarder or reseller then you'd probably return
whatever you don't need/sell. So good move.

~~~
kqr2
I've seen people return crazy things at Costco:

\- Bag of potatoes almost completely empty. The guy had a few potatoes that
were sprouting roots. Costco refunded the cost of the entire bag.

\- Cart full of sushi platters. Obviously somebody bought it for a party and
didn't finish it. Again Costco refunded.

~~~
8ytecoder
We all pay the price for these customers misusing the return policy. Companies
got to have a decent enforcement of these policies.

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WalterBright
Nordstrom was famous for refunding customers' money. One person brought in a
used tire (Nordy's sells clothes) and was refunded his money. A Nordy's
salesman I know told me that people would return obviously well worn shoes and
would get a refund, no questions asked.

Nordstrom doesn't do that anymore. Too many abusers.

~~~
bsder
One of the outdoor retailers (REI?) had to give up their "No Questions Asked"
return policy because of idiots doing things like buying a tent, using it for
a trip, and then returning it.

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sokoloff
LLBean changed their lifetime guarantee a few years back after people would
return worn-out from normal use items for a refund or replacement.

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gnicholas
I was in the Redwood City Costco today, just as they were running out of TP.
It was 11:30 AM, and an employee said to the fellow taking the last pack: "I
unload 16 pallets of the stuff every day, and it always runs out!"

Conveniently, they had a sign out front showing things they did or did not
have in stock, to save you time in case you just came for one thing. The sign
included things like TP and bottled water.

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rconti
Insane. We have some of the best tap water in the world on the Peninsula. WTF.

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KarlKemp
At the present moment, people may be buying the container more than the water.

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Consultant32452
That's an interesting hypothesis. Why would a person want 50+ 20oz bottles?

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KarlKemp
To store water in case civilization ends, obviously.

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whatever1
Costco allows purchases to members only. I do not understand why in the very
beginning they did not enforce the purchase limit of each membership to
something reasonable e.g. 2 big boxes (~70 rolls) per month.

~~~
hristov
A lot of their members are various types of small businesses. Remember when
Costco was becoming popular like 20-30 years ago they mostly marketed
themselves as a place for small businesses to stock up. It is hard to say what
would be reasonable for a small business.

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dghughes
It would be insane for a small business to buy items at retail prices. They
should be going to a wholesaler to buy what they need.

I used to work for my uncle's coin-op business. I would often go to the
wholesaler to purchase vending machine stock. Cases of cigarettes were
insanely expensive ($2K each??) even at a wholesaler back in the late 1980s
early 1990s.

~~~
catblast
You misunderstood. It’s for small businesses to stock up on items they need
for their place of business, not for resale. Countless small offices in the US
may need a lot more TP than a 3 person family but doesn’t need enough to
justify a direct wholesale account. Same goes for coffee, snacks, various
office appliances.

~~~
jcrawfordor
There are businesses that buy stock for resale at Costco too. It's usually
because the volume they buy is too small for wholesalers to take them
seriously. Examples around here are small vending businesses and movie
theaters.

~~~
kenhwang
The cafe near my office resells Costco baked goods like muffins and cookies.
They primarily do hot breakfast/lunch/sandwiches, but hey, sometimes people
just want a cookie.

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kinkrtyavimoodh
Hoarders should just hold on to the toilet paper. It's not perishable, so at
least they will have a stash for the next time there is a similar scare, and
fewer regular customers will be affected.

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wolco
Hoarders would never return them. That goes against everything.

Only failed resellers would.

~~~
rosywoozlechan
These panic buyers are a different kind of hoarder. These aren't hoarders
buying it due to a mental illness. The people who panic bought a lot of toilet
paper did so for what they thought were rational reasons: to get toilet paper
before everyone else bought it all, to get toilet paper in case of long term
quarantine, perhaps to resell it a higher price, or fear of long term
disruption of supply lines. Once these rational reasons turn out to be
incorrect they may desire to return their purchase.

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battery_cowboy
I don't know, man, I "hoarded" 2 months worth of TP: two large packs of 18
"mega-rolls". If I bought enough to fill a room, that'd be like 10 years of
TP. I have 2 people in my home, if that helps. Anyone who bought more than
~2-3 large packs was hoarding for resale OR has a huge family.

~~~
BubRoss
You are thinking rationally. People buying years of toilet paper while they
have food for the next two weeks are not thinking things through.

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jb775
These are mostly bulky items, it would be an inventory-storage nightmare. Let
the d-bags who bought a years supply of toilet paper deal with that
themselves.

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gnicholas
Whole Foods had signs all over about not taking returns on food due to
coronavirus. It's a reasonable position for them to take, given the risk.
Months ago I remember seeing a sign in a Whole Foods in SF that asked
customers not to load up their reusable bags while shopping (to use a
basket/cart instead). The reason was that if you take something off the shelf
and later put it back, then you've potentially contaminated someone else's
food. This is basically the same logic for not accepting returns (that have
been in someone's house) now.

Not surprisingly, the signs were mostly clustered near goods that people might
stockpile, like pasta and canned tomatoes. Aside from liability, they also
want to discourage hoarding.

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thomk
protip: there are many, many other ways to clean an ass. No need to panic. At
worst you'll be inconvenienced.

~~~
carlob
50%+ of the US population also uses paper when peeing...

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taftster
Costco has a very liberal return policy. This has already been discussed here,
but people are buying toilet paper with the ability to easily return in mind.
If they can't use it, they will just return it for a full refund.

This is an excellent step by Costco to cut down on the return mindset. If you
buy pallets worth of toilet paper, good on Costco for not letting you return
them. You better have the square footage to deal with your own inventory.

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sys_64738
Perhaps there are health reasons for it. Maybe they can't resell used toilet
paper.

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wideasleep1
Like most things Costco...'as it should be'...

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nikolay
You still need to wait 2-3 hours to get just a pack of toilet paper. In
addition, you need to enter a closed space and potentially get infected. High-
demand items should be sold outside on the parking lot with either their key
fobs or credit cards. This way, the store won't be crazy and infected with so
many people wasting hours just to get toilet paper and water. Stop praising
Costco too much!

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StillBored
I've often wondered if there isn't a "secret" mailing list of people who go
around and buy some product with the intention of creating a shortage and
making a buck on amazon. The retail equivalent of a bunch of traders gaming
some commodity.

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blackrock
I wish Costco would do two things

1) Limit the number of people in the store. Do better crowd control. The over
packed stores makes me hate visiting Costco.

2) Make the shopping carts smaller. To allow for easier navigation.

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fortran77
I have a feeling some people bought HUGE quantities in hopes of selling on
Amazon/ebay for inflated prices. When these plans fell through, they're trying
to return it.

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Tempest1981
Like these guys, who rented trucks and drove 1300 miles, hitting every store
they could find. They got left holding 17700 bottles of hand sanitizer.

[https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/technology/coronavirus-
pu...](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/technology/coronavirus-purell-wipes-
amazon-sellers.html) (Filed under "technology", ha!)

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Fjolsvith
I think Costco ought to allow returns for these things, for an exchange of a
like item.

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lenkite
Popular toilet paper and coronavirus warehouse video making the rounds:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA4KS546rZo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA4KS546rZo)

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justlexi93
The title is confusing, we all know how people for hygiene stuff including
toilet papers.

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sabujp
why is this on hn? this was like news on the mainstream sites weeks ago.

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tempestn
Same reason as always: someone posted it, and others found it interesting
enough to upvote.

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leptoniscool
They should accept the returns so they can restock the shelves again.

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jbay808
They have enough supply available from their normal suppliers to restock the
shelves.

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sithlord
So lets say I own a business - and buy for the business, now al the sudden
everyone is working from home. As a business owner I can either, return it so
others can get it or I can save it for later.

Seems like there could be good reason to allow returns.

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HumblyTossed
If this is the case, you speak to the Costco management staff and explain the
situation. Maybe they'll let you. Maybe they won't. But either way, not
allowing returns is the correct move to keep people from hoarding.

~~~
wolco
This doesn't stop hoarding. Hoarders keep things well past their usefulness.
These are failed amazon/ebay resellers who tried to make a profit but no
market existed.

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jachee
Your parent comment meant short-term, "screw you poors, I've got $7000 cash,
so buying it ALL" hoarders, who went in with bad faith motives of
reselling/gouging and/or returning excess stock when the run has completed its
course.

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mmazing
Hmm. What if some of these people realize they are hurting their community and
trying to return what they don't need so others can have it?

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HumblyTossed
They can stand outside Costco and give it away and get some of that Karma
back.

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test6554
Or sell it at the price they paid and break even.

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ben174
I'm glad this is happening. But I could see how a consumer would be upset with
this. Were these rules listed when I purchased the product? Why didn't you
limit me if you had intentions of limiting what I can return?

Costco is very open about their return policy and it's part of the reason
people shop there. They can buy things and know they can return them if they
don't need them. It may be the wrong reason to buy things, but if that's the
case Costco should alter their return policy.

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hvs
They did alter their return policy. That's what the article is about.

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mikelward
GP presumably meant at time of sale, rather than retroactively.

