
‘Smart toilet’ monitors for signs of disease - breck
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/04/smart-toilet-monitors-for-signs-of-disease.html
======
jimmaswell
Adult Swim's Smart Pipe coming to life.

[https://youtu.be/DJklHwoYgBQ](https://youtu.be/DJklHwoYgBQ)

I actually thought it was a cool idea when I watched that, besides the
exaggerated parts for the joke.

~~~
DonHopkins
Brilliant! That's some HBO Silicon Valley level parody.

Atlas Shrugged @ 5:15

Start at 4:55 for the set-up. SmartPipe CEO Kirk Peckley is played by Mark
Proksch, who also played Daniel Wormald (a.k.a Pryce) the H2 driving Squat
Cobbler from Better Call Saul!

[https://breakingbad.fandom.com/wiki/Daniel_Wormald](https://breakingbad.fandom.com/wiki/Daniel_Wormald)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Proksch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Proksch)

[https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Squat%20Cobb...](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Squat%20Cobbler)

K-Strass the Zim-Zam Yo-Yo Guy Super Compilation

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj9VF7LyffU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj9VF7LyffU)

[https://www.amc.com/shows/better-call-
saul/talk/2016/02/bett...](https://www.amc.com/shows/better-call-
saul/talk/2016/02/better-call-saul-mark-proksch-k-strass-zim-zam)

>Indeed, Proksch – who says he took Gilligan and Gould’s reaction as
“incredibly high praise” – says the K-Strass character isn’t much of a stretch
from who he is as a person. In fact, he says there’s even a little bit of
K-Strass DNA in his performance as Pryce on Better Call Saul. “Every character
that I play is a variation of me,” he says. “I have yet to play an out and out
asshole or a villain. It’s always kind of a pathetic guy wearing pleats. And
that’s what I love. I’m so happy that I get to play these arrogant idiots.”

~~~
ShamelessC
Haha.

"My father taught me the value of hard work and big ideas. But, he was in the
union and so he grew lazy - "

 _zooms in on copy of Atlas Shrugged_

"\- and he failed to innovate. Uh, he died."

------
jerrac
Have not read the article, but every time I've heard about it my thought is,
"make it not connected to the internet." Basically, keep the data local, then
you can choose to take to your doctor, or find a way to analyze it yourself.
No need for it to be transmitted anywhere.

Of course, that would require respecting a persons privacy and not falling for
the lure of "big data" "saving the world".

~~~
dogma1138
That defeats the entire point of this, the whole point isn’t a diagnosis but
an early warning especially of it can be performed within a single bowl
movement so when you are done and ready to flush you get some feedback.

If you need to go to a doctor to get any analysis you might as well bring your
own stool sample.

This is intended to replace home stool testing kits which are well icky and
tricky to use.

Having smart toilets in public or semi pubic places would be a good balance
between privacy and utility, it can’t tie results to a given user but it can
collect collective health data and alert users of potential health concerns.

~~~
stingraycharles
I think the point of the parent is not so much that you need to take your data
to a doctor as much as it’s about not uploading the data to the internet (ie
keep the data local).

~~~
Kiro
Or the obvious middle-ground: make it optional to upload it. I would certainly
not want this unless it uploaded and analyzed the data automatically. If it
can happen locally, no problem, but I guess it makes it much harder.

~~~
ConsiderCrying
If they make it optional, I'd bet good money on the "Don't upload" being off
by default and hidden behind five complicated menus.

~~~
short_sells_poo
It is also reset with every update, which have an ominously high frequency,
like once a week. The device will of course disable it's features if an update
is not applied.

Also, make it full of "useful" granularity like: "upload data on Tuesdays" or
"Only upload data if the water PH is less than 7".

------
TomJansen
Stool diagnostics are the future. So much health information is flushed down
the toilet. I hope this will soon be a standard in houses. Except, the problem
is what happens to the data of friends that use your toilet...

~~~
cmdshiftf4
>I hope this will soon be a standard in houses.

I sure as hell hope is is not. Like every other piece of convenience crapware
(pun intended) we've surrounded ourselves with, it would undoubtedly come
packed with data sharing agreements with ad networks / data brokers.

If this ever becomes some sort of norm, I would encourage people to start
mailing boxes of their own waste directly to Google for them to enjoy
analyzing, as the data would inevitably end up in their hands anyway.

~~~
DonHopkins
Darryl Cherney once organized a pee-in to protest a call by Ronald Reagan for
mandatory government drug testing, convincing several hundred people to mail
urine samples to the White House. When the containers were all ruptured by the
sorting machinery in the Garberville post office, much of that part of the
county's mail smelled like a public toilet for several days. Darryl was
informed of the disaster and shrugged sheepishly. When you were saving the
planet, you won a few, you lost a few.

[https://books.google.nl/books?id=WDvNaVv_sX4C&pg=PA164&lpg=P...](https://books.google.nl/books?id=WDvNaVv_sX4C&pg=PA164&lpg=PA164&dq=mail+urine+to+ronald+reagan&source=bl&ots=l6xWPqKWCQ&sig=ACfU3U0q8XuycsLtsarRlqcGG4lD-
bhB2w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi-
yvyB0vLpAhWGqqQKHYf8Dk8Q6AEwAHoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false)

Bob Shireman, who calls himself a "consumer advocate," created the "Piddle to
the President Kit." Nw you can send President Reagan your urine in a leak-
proof missive, thanks to the sterile specimen cup, the currugated mailing box
addressed to "Ron and Nancy," and the set of mailing insttructions that come
with each kit.

[https://books.google.nl/books?id=neYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT12&lpg=PT...](https://books.google.nl/books?id=neYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT12&lpg=PT12&dq=mail+urine+to+ronald+reagan&source=bl&ots=LFUJJpUtc5&sig=ACfU3U0hzqmdTH54ZQHuwDYK4OxYA3lT-g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi-
yvyB0vLpAhWGqqQKHYf8Dk8Q6AEwAXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=mail%20urine%20to%20ronald%20reagan&f=false)

~~~
cmdshiftf4
That's fascinating. Hopefully the effort can be revived should Google et al.
pursue our health data.

------
ilaksh
Personally I think this is going to be a critical aspect of healthcare in the
future. That along with other continuous monitoring like smart watches with
advanced pulse rate detection etc. And I think that the health improvements in
terms of disease prevention and early treatment will be like night and day.
They will look back at the pre-continuous-monitoring era of healthcare as the
dark ages.

However, the part that I really disagree with is the idea that it would send
your data to the doctor but not make it readily available to you. I personally
feel like access to and control over my own personal health data is a human
right that is actually often effectively blocked by our current healthcare
system.

And I know that the belief is that normal people can't interpret health
information, but with AI built into these types of devices and services and
online knowledgebases, that isn't completely true anymore. Sure, we absolutely
need doctors before making decisions, but that does not mean we should not be
able to examine our own health data and do our own computer-assisted research.
Especially when so many people cannot afford the costs of routine healthcare.

------
mc32
I guess it’s convenient and probably would save lives by way of course early
detection...

But... what about going in for an interview and unbeknownst you get idd and
samples get sent. Or your employer... oh so and so is coming on with an
expensive disease which requires loads of time off to recover...

There are implications that need to be adressed.

~~~
bb2018
I'm not quite sure that level of concern is warranted. It is illegal to ask
for a medical examination before getting hired and I imagine this would extend
to that. Testing poop, even with a smart toilet, would be pretty cumbersome
and a huge PR nightmare. It would be just as easy now to remove hair for
covert DNA tests - but I don't think that has ever been an issue.

~~~
est31
> It would be just as easy now to remove hair for covert DNA tests

Thanks to companies like 23andMe, this won't be neccessary in the future. If
enough of your relatives have sent their genome to those companies, they
already have the sequenced genome as well as consent from your relatives to
use their DNA. Their DNA is highly similar to your DNA which means that they
can extrapolate to you, without even having to resort to covert methods.

------
allears
The real problem is false positives. Suppose this system puts up a warning.
What next? Expensive and/or invasive tests? Could be more trouble than it's
worth. If it were me, I'd have to see a very high rate of accuracy before I'd
trust it.

~~~
NotSammyHagar
That's the common argument about almost every medical test. Prostate psa test
could mean problems or not, and then prostate cancers have very different
outcomes. If we scanned everyone we'd find lots of other anomalies that don't
matter, but we'd find a few people with near term heart attack or stroke or
early cancer. I'd personally take that risk.

------
kumarm
Its already main stream for cats to do the same with litter.
[https://prettylitter.com/](https://prettylitter.com/)

Its matter of time before this becomes common.

Disclaimer: Investor in prettylitter.

~~~
drdeadringer
I recognize this as being advertised on the podcast "Small Town Dicks" with
Yeardley Smith ["Lisa" from "The Simpsons"] and two detectives "from Small
Town USA" about actual true crime stuff.

Notification Again: I just listen to the podcast, I've simply just watched
'The Simpsons', and I don't have a cat.

smalltowndicks.com

------
DonHopkins
"Hey buddy, you're the one with the sex toilet!"

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83KLxQ1jjdg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83KLxQ1jjdg)

------
flattone
Can anyone actually build something good?

‘What’s another attack surface of a persons dignity and privacy?’ - all new
products.

You’re all going the way of the dinosaurs with your ‘new’ bs

~~~
alach11
My wife has an autoimmune disease which can manifest with blood and protein
spilling into urine due to impaired kidney function. To monitor this daily
would be a tremendous improvement to our ability to monitor for flares.

~~~
flattone
Thats a brilliant example where we need to provide her with the device she
needs.

I still dont want it as a product thats in every home

------
pvaldes
"You'll never guess what Jennifer Lopez had for dinner this month. The number
9 will blow your digestive system"

But Wow, that adult swim video nailed that in 2014

Of course If a system can scan signs of disease, to modify it to scan silently
drugs would be a breeze. Would be basically like putting a policeman inside
each toilet.

~~~
DonHopkins
Blue Lives Fecal Matter!

------
onetimemanytime
The downsides are huge, including everyone knowing or thinking that they know
your medical secrets. More or less we know what we have or risk, yet until it
hits us like a ton of bricks we keep eating, sitting and drinking.

------
mherchel
Literally "the internet of sh*t"

------
vanilla-almond
What types of health conditions can be detected in stools and urine?

For some conditions there are some obviously visual signs e.g. blood in urine
or stools. Or the colour of stool may indicate a condition if it is
persistently a very pale colour.

But what conditions can be detected in stools and urine that aren't visible by
visual diagnosis? The article mentions some cancers but not much detail.

~~~
PresidentChuck
Look up urine test strips

------
Kiro
The comments in this thread that can't see the obvious benefits and instead
are focusing on far-fetched privacy issues. If we come to a point where
everyone is forced to shit in a smart toilet we will have way bigger problems
to deal with. Until then just let me have a smart toilet to analyze my poop.

------
mistrial9
jokes aside, testing != outcomes; many comments here make reference to testing
results taken by others, and then .. what ? Who owns the data ? what is the
custody chain of the data ? When it is available, to the highest bidder?

Illness is a weakness, and weakness is used by humans against other humans,
everyday. Some psychology suggests that the more removed and remote the
decision-making, the more likely to be unfair. Therefore, collecting intimate
data on YOU with this device, especially in some kind of mandetory,
unescapable way, is the stuff of nightmares for real reasons.

This invention is useful, but its application is no joke. !

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mmhsieh
there was no other method than anus scan for authentication? the fingerprint
was not enough? if the anus is so reliable why bother with the fingerprint at
all? how about voice authentication in lieu of all that?

~~~
anm89
This is honestly incredible. They had to have taken this out of the adult swim
promo.

This comparison obviously begs the question, it it illegal to store a scan of
a child's unique anal topography?

~~~
jstarfish
There was a gynecologist arrested a few years ago for taking related photos of
(adult) patients.

Storing the photo in a visually-renderable format is probably unacceptable.
Storing hashes should work though.

------
HaloZero
I'm curious then, do they have a light in the toilet to get the picture? I
imagine some light must stream in depending on your body size and the toilet
size but is that enough light or do they need more?

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danimal88
"shitbit"

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sarcasmatwork
Don't need 1 more thing monitoring my shit.

~~~
lvs
Toilet-cloud interface unwanted

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anm89
It's more like a lock and key mechanism that employs your topographical anal
handshake.

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FloatArtifact
Inevitably another cloud connected device. I hope it keeps my crap secure...

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PresidentChuck
I saw some kitty litter that changes color for certain conditions.

------
fiberhood
original paper [https://sci-hub.tw/10.1038/s41551-020-0534-9#](https://sci-
hub.tw/10.1038/s41551-020-0534-9#)

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xenospn
There's a Japanese startup that makes smart cat litterboxes. Clever stuff.

~~~
chance_state
Do they analyze the cat poop?

~~~
xenospn
Cat pee.

