
Female Congressional Candidate Ends Run After Being Accused of Sexual Harassment - Corrado
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/12/15/571262099/female-congressional-candidate-ends-run-after-she-is-accused-of-sexual-harassmen
======
naturalgradient
A relevant take on the metoo debate, although is contains some rather
contentious points:

[https://www.the-american-interest.com/2017/12/06/the-
warlock...](https://www.the-american-interest.com/2017/12/06/the-warlock-
hunt/)

'Several cases recently in the headlines are simply baffling. They do not
involve the workplace—or vast discrepancies in power—at all. Perhaps there is
more to the story, but from what I’ve read, the improprieties committed by the
UK’s (now former) Defense Secretary Michael Fallon amount to this: He kissed a
journalist—not his employee, and not someone over whom he had power, but
another adult in another profession—fifteen years ago. What transmogrified
Fallon’s kiss to a crime that cost him his career were these words, and only
these words: “I felt humiliated, ashamed.” Had the object of his affection
said, “I felt flattered,” there would be no offense. '

I think the chilling effect is already here now. Nobody will say it, nobody
would admit to it and commit career suicide, but I have no doubt countless
startups, corps, research groups will just not hire any women in the wake of
this debate.

I am a PhD student and it makes me think about teaching female undergrads at
all or taking them on for projects. If I meet female undergrads for teaching,
it's already only in public places in the department, never in my office or an
actual teaching room. I am not the type who would ever make lewd comments, or
anything of the sort, but it does not matter. There are no bonus points for
being a good guy, an 'ally'.

~~~
bjelkeman-again
I think that is hyperbole. If you are a man, treat women just like you would
treat men. Most men would not try to kiss another man without asking first.

Organisations with more women in leadership roles perform better. [1] Which
reflects my experience as well. So it isn't only negative from a human point
of view to not treat women correctly, it is also a poor business decision.

[1] [https://hbr.org/2016/02/study-firms-with-more-women-in-
the-c...](https://hbr.org/2016/02/study-firms-with-more-women-in-the-c-suite-
are-more-profitable)

~~~
naturalgradient
While I have no intention of ever getting involved in that way, I disagree.The
article I linked gives a good perspective on this:

'They are subtle to the point of near-invisibility. It seems Michael Oreskes
liked to kiss women. Now, it is an embarrassing faux-pas to kiss a woman who
does not wish to be kissed, but it happens all the time. Kissing a woman is an
early stage of courtship. It is one way that men ask the question, “Would you
like more?” Courtship is not a phenomenon so minor to our behavioral
repertoire that we can readily expunge it from the workplace. It is central to
human life. Men and women are attracted to each other; the human race could
not perpetuate itself otherwise; and anyone who imagines they will cease to be
attracted to each other—or act as if they were not—in the workplace, or any
other place, is delusional. Anyone who imagines it is easy for a man to figure
out whether a woman might like to be kissed is insane. The difficulty of
ascertaining whether one’s passions are reciprocated is the theme of 90
percent of human literature and every romantic comedy or pop song ever
written. '

We cannot eliminate and sterilise male-female relationships or pretend they
are not different from male-male.

~~~
kerpele
How about asking before kissing? It is not "embarrassing faux-pas" to kiss a
woman who doesn't want it, it is violating their personal space.

~~~
xxs
I suppose that's a joke comment or political correctness out control. Asking
prior kissing is likely to kill any romance. The question itself may feel
awkward (in my anecdotal 4 women survey). The guy would be considered not
confident enough which is good enough reason to be rejected.

~~~
lsc
Let us compare this to another crime. So I sometimes keep my wallet on my
desk, yes? If some rando comes by and helps themselves to some cash, that's a
crime, right? But I'm totally okay with my partner doing that, and there's one
or two other people I'd be okay with, too. It is _not_ a crime if one of those
people takes the money out of my wallet. But, as it's my wallet, I get to
decide who has that privilege.

Note, this depends on how I feel, as it's my wallet. Some people would never
be okay with others taking money without asking. For me, at least, there's a
small group of people I'd be okay with taking my money without asking.

Now, let us postulate that you think you are in that group with wallet access,
but further postulate that you, in fact, are not. You think that I like you
more than I actually like you. Even so, if you "confidently" grab money out of
my wallet without asking, you are committing a crime, even if someone else
performing the exact same action, someone I liked more, would not be
committing a crime.

My point here is not to compare kisses to property, of course, but to point
out that there are other places in criminal law where the perceptions of the
victim and only the perceptions of the victim determine if it is a crime or
not. In most of these cases, there's a strong default; by default, it's my
wallet, and you can't take the money out without my say-so. By default, it's
my body, and you can't touch it in a sexual way without my say so. Yes, you
can make your assumptions as to your status, and if you are correct? that's
cool. But you do so at your own risk. If you don't want to take that risk, you
are free to ask.

~~~
MandieD
That's a really great metaphor, and really great advice. The next time I deal
with a man bemoaning how tricky #metoo has made life, I will put this example
to him. If you're not really sure, don't take the risk - ask before taking
cash or initiating more an a handshake.

------
binarray2000
As someone who loves his female cousins (I call them sisters) and their
daughters and as someone who treats his wife as an equal partner (my
philosophy: "Man and woman are two wings of the same bird.") I am all for both
sexes being protected from any kind of harassment. Yes, and the media must
talk about it (especially, when children and minors are harmed).

BUT...

As an outsider to the USA (I live in Europe), I cannot believe what I see in
the US media.

Basically, all you can read about is three topics (in no particular order):

(1) Trump is guilty for EVERYTHING

(2) Russia is guilty for EVERYTHING

(3) Sexual harassment

It looks (off the top of my head):

\- as if the USA is not fighting numerous wars

\- as if the US troops are not in almost every country on the globe

\- as if the federal debt is now not over 20.000 billion

\- as if military budget is now not almost 700 billion

\- as if bridges are not falling and as if infrastructure is not crumbling

\- as if the whole society is not in all kinds of (deep) debt

\- as if there is no lead and mercury in tap water in numerous municipalities

\- as if many cities and municipalities are not bankrupt

\- as if banks and other financial institutions are not ripping the US society

\- as if corporations are not ripping the US society (latest rip: net
neutrality)

\- as if there is not less freedoms (of the press, of the expression, of
movement [TSA])

\- as if everyone has a medical insurance

\- as if everyone has access to free college education

\- as if there are no race riots

\- as if there are no tent cities

\- as if, as if, as if...

Can someone from the USA explain this to me:

\- Is there critical mass concerned with the latter stuff or is almost
everyone concerned with Trump, Russia and sexual harassment?

\- If the latter stuff is of more concern for the people, why do the elected
representatives (who get elected and re-elected by their constituents) not
broach about it?

Thank you.

~~~
falcolas
Sexual harassment gets more viewership. It's salacious - sex sells very well
in our puritanical nation. US in debt? Old news. We've been in serious debt
for years. Troops in every country? We're there to help "spread freedom." News
is a business, and like so many other businesses these days, they're more
interested in short term profit over long term sustainability.

Yeah, it's terrible. Yeah, the US has a lot more problems than our current
president and the actions of a vast minority of people. You won't read that in
a for-profit newspaper though.

------
paul7986
I recently stood up for a female colleagues harassment by their manager. I am
male and a few months after I privately reported what I witnessed I started to
get harassed and then was forced out.

That was towards the middle of this summer and Ive been trying to land my next
job in the same local industry but anomalously am having trouble finding my
next gig.

I'm not sure what avenues I have as I should still be working there & in my
field, but since I reported a manager's harassment I am a problem that needs
to go & am suffering?

~~~
greenyoda
You might want to consult an employment lawyer. Firing you in retaliation for
reporting wrongdoing in the workplace may have been an illegal act.

------
multibit
'In a statement, a spokeswoman for the DCCC, Meredith Kelly, "Members and
candidates must all be held to the highest standard. If anyone is guilty of
sexual harassment or sexual assault, that person should not hold public
office.'

Their position is clear here: being accused is being guilty.

~~~
icebraining
No, it's very much not clear. You're reading an implication from a single line
quoted from a full email.

------
brailsafe
> "We are in a national moment where rough justice stands in place of careful
> analysis, nuance and due process."

Accurate.

~~~
rectang
It's progress. Heretofore those who are subject to sexual abuse have been
forced to accept countless injustices. Now accused abusers are subject to the
occasional injustice.

For an example of worse-than-rough-justice, consider the monumental backlog of
unprocessed rape kits in this country.

~~~
photik
It's progress in the way euthanasia cures cancer.

~~~
rectang
Things probably have to get worse before they get better. People have been
able to ignore the issue for too long. Now the suffering is spreading a tiny
bit and those who would rather not confront the agony of others are being
forced to.

------
mgiannopoulos
From the article > According to the Kansas Star, the company reached a
settlement with the former employee who had made the allegation, Gary
Funkhouser. <

A financial settlement means that there was some basis to the allegations. The
fact that she was not convicted does not mean much in a political environment
where we need more people with a higher set of standards.

~~~
insickness
> A financial settlement means that there was some basis to the allegations.

Absolutely not true. Being accused of misconduct can ruin a person's life and
it can be better to settle rather than fight it. There are plenty of innocent
people who have accepted plea bargains as well.

~~~
mgiannopoulos
Apple vs oranges. Being offered a financial settlement to drop a complaint is
the exact opposite of accepting a plea bargain.

~~~
tyingq
They are both risk management decisions, so I don't get the "exact opposite"
explanation. I suspect it cuts both ways. Some cases were buyouts for obvious
bad behavior, and some cases were more like trumped up extortion. I don't know
that there's a credible source for how often it's one vs the other.

------
Overtonwindow
Relevant: [https://xkcd.com/642/](https://xkcd.com/642/)

