
HP Buying Palm For $1.2 Billion - jsm386
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/HP-to-Acquire-Palm-for-12-bw-3412218042.html?x=0&.v=1
======
megaduck
HP's getting a hell of a deal here. They're now a major player in the mobile
devices market, overnight.

Palm has current relationships with the three biggest American cell carriers,
plus channels in Canada, France, Germany, UK, and Mexico. Palm also has an
extensive patent portfolio, many of which Apple is infringing upon.

However, the real prize is WebOS. I just got back from Palm's Developer Day,
and their technology stack for their next OS version is pretty damn neat. It's
a high performance event-driven javascript architecture on the back end, with
WebKit on the front, all programmed through a Rails-ish MVC model. As a web
developer, it looks shockingly easy to program for.

Of course, if you want to program the phone in raw C/C++ and SDL, you can do
that too. It's incredibly flexible.

What Palm has been lacking is cash and time. The WebOS development stack won't
be fully built out until Fall, and they haven't had the resources to push new
phone models out as quickly as they need. This deal gives Palm much needed
juice, and gives HP all the things they need to go head-to-head with Apple.

If HP is smart, they'll start tossing WebOS on tablets as soon as they can.
I'd buy an HP slate with WebOS in a heartbeat.

~~~
mixmax
_"This deal (...) gives HP all the things they need to go head-to-head with
Apple."_

Except for the one thing that makes apple products special: Design.

~~~
potatolicious
I've used the Pre (I have an iPhone) - it is incredibly solidly designed. Its
main problems are twofold:

\- It's slow. Really slow. If they can get a 2-3x performance improvement
overall throughout webOS, they can actually compete with Apple. So far it's
just not snappy enough to be a pleasant experience.

\- The marketing sucked. Seriously, what the hell. It's almost as if they went
out of the way to convince you to not buy this device.

~~~
swannodette
In the area of performance, going with V8 sounds like a smart move. It's now
faster than Python 3k and Ruby 1.9 if the Computer Benchmarks Game is to be
believed.

I like my iPhone/iPad but it's high time Apple had some real competition.

~~~
potatolicious
It's really too bad that the software wasn't faster and more solid out of the
gate - they had some key innovations that Apple _still_ doesn't have: social
media integration.

Do I want my Facebook contacts in my address book? Hell yes. Would I like a
dashboard with recent Facebook updates from my friends? Duh.

Palm has an innovative head on its shoulders, I for one am glad they are in a
position to have a deep pit of money with which to battle Apple.

~~~
moron4hire
Facebook contacts in my address book and a performant OS, right now. It's
called Android.

------
mortenjorck
Dear HP:

Please don't mess this up.

You're a storied pioneer in tech, but you got massive and lost your sense of
direction. You're about to acquire something of a microcosm of yourself—a
company that pioneered an industry but lost its way as it grew.

The difference is that your new acquisition rediscovered its sense of
curiosity and turned itself around, too late to save itself, but brilliantly
so nonetheless. You can learn from this. Your size has protected you from
Palm's fate, but you were slowly headed down the same path, despite even your
well-intentioned yet insufficiently-pursued experiments with things like
TouchSmart.

While this is a new beginning for Palm, it's also a new beginning for you.
What's your tagline again? Ah, yes: _Invent._ There's never been a better time
to make good on it.

~~~
megablast
HP is now run by business men, not engineers. If Carla didn't prove this to
you, then you are probably never going to get it. The fact is, they don't care
about Compaq, DEC, Palm, or even HP. They just want to pull in enough money
over the next few years, until they retire. They could be selling Paper cups
for all they care about the product, as long as they still get their bonuses.

~~~
cookiecaper
I don't know if that's really true. Most businesspeople are not just
interested in milking salaries. Like most other people, they want to do a good
job at the job they've been assigned. Unless you have personal knowledge of
the execs at HP, I wouldn't go so far; such a claim is rather personal and
depends on a lot of individual factors and I don't think it can really be made
en masse about a whole exec team.

Also, there is financial incentive to set the company on an innovative,
profit-filled future; many (most?) executives hold lots and lots of stock.

~~~
astine
"many (most?) executives hold lots and lots of stock."

All, probably.

------
dwwoelfel
I don't think that HP has a clear purpose for making this purchase. They held
a conference call on the acquisition, which is available on their webpage,
along with a transcript:

<http://www.hp.com/investor/webcast>

The first questioner wanted to know why HP didn't just build Android devices.
HP didn't have a compelling response. They just mumbled something about "early
stage market" and making webOS "more compelling". Oddly, HP then mentioned
that they are still a strategic partner with Microsoft.

------
dwwoelfel
According to the press release, Palm shareholders get $5.70/share. The stock
is above $5.90/share in after-hours trading. Is there some reason for this? Is
this an arbitrage opportunity (assuming you could get shares to borrow)?

~~~
jakarta
Got to keep in mind that a lot of short sellers will be covering, which could
account for some of the premium.

------
shiftb
Wow. I just bought a Pre a month ago. At least they'll continue to be a going
concern (and able to provide me with support ;) I was hoping Palm would be
able to make it independently somehow, though.

This would be an awesome thing if WebOS ended up on the HP Slate.

------
maxharris
Well, this is great.

I love my Apple gear, and I'm going to stay that way as long as they keep
making well-designed (minimalistic externally) stuff.

But with the Palm acquisition, HP will be able to do just what Apple is doing.
And that's great - integration between software and hardware makes my life (as
a user) so much easier.

The main question I have is: will they have any taste? The HP slate has a big
white HP logo on the user-facing side, which will keep me from buying one no
matter what else it might do. (I don't want to be distracted when I'm using a
tablet.)

~~~
aero142
It's funny, even though Apple has resisted messing up the hardware, there is
still that "Sent from my iPhone" message which always struck me as having no
taste at all. It is different because you can remove it, but still.

~~~
mos1
I view 'Sent from my BlackBerry / iPhone' as a way of explaining why the email
is so short.

~~~
maxharris
Did BlackBerry start putting those messages in first, before Apple did the
iPhone?

~~~
truebosko
Article from Jan 2007 telling you how to remove that message from
Blackberry's: [http://www.bbhub.com/2007/01/02/how-to-banish-your-sent-
from...](http://www.bbhub.com/2007/01/02/how-to-banish-your-sent-from-my-
blackberry-wireless-handheld-t/)

iPhone came out in June 2007 so .. looks like BB's did it first.

~~~
sankara
My SE K790 had a "Sent using a Sony Ericsson Phone" message as early as Sep
2006!

------
faramarz
Wow, that just came out of no where. Did anyone really think of HP as a
serious contender? great move!

Elevation Partners must be trilled!

~~~
sachinag
It's a save, not a single, but yeah:
<http://twitter.com/danprimack/status/13026332506>

~~~
paulgb
Could you (or someone else) please explain what "single" and "save" mean in
this context?

~~~
sachinag
Single: 1x return (100% ROI), confusingly 2x back on what was invested. This
means a triple is a 300% return, or 4x back what was invested. A home run is a
400% return or better, or 5x back what was invested. Along those lines, Save:
money back = money invested

------
gregstoll
Very good news for WebOS since HP doesn't have their own competing mobile OS.

~~~
lallysingh
Weren't they the last major Windows Mobile player? This sounds like the last
nail in WM's coffin.

~~~
sueders100
HTC makes Windows Mobile/Phone devices. They just recently came out with the
HD2 in the US.

~~~
kylec
I had hoped that HTC would discontinue making new Windows Mobile devices after
Microsoft told them that Android stepped on their patents. Instead HTC is now
'licensing' these patents from MS. Still, it would have been funny if there
were no major manufacturers for Windows Mobile.

[http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-pay-royalties-microsoft-
af...](http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-pay-royalties-microsoft-after-being-
told-android-steps-its-patents)

------
Tichy
Wow, amazed that it is worth 1.2 Billion. Not that I dislike Palm, but I
suspect for 1 Billion, you could write several WebOS from scratch.

~~~
mahmud
By the time you're done writing and testing a new webOS, the market would have
changed and the serious contenders established. Right now it's still up for
grabs.

~~~
Tichy
The market of non-Appe users, that is? :-)

OK, but if time is of a premium, why not just use Android, as it's free? Or
build on top of Android?

------
mrkurt
I'm just going to stick my fingers in my ears and pretend that HTC is buying
them.

~~~
hackernews
I think this is better. HTC is vetted in hardware, I'm not sure they would
care for WebOS as HP hopefully will.

------
raheemm
The Palm Pre is going to have a fighting chance now. Its a great phone.

------
ziadbc
Not sure what the industry analysis of this will be, but I like the idea of HP
having its own platform to present to the world.

It reminds me of the 80s where the was lots of diversity in the platforms. The
good news here is WebOS apps are mostly built on web standards so we have the
best of both worlds.

------
jxcole
"Palm’s unparalleled webOS platform"

Question: is Palm's web os platform really unparalleled? Or is it quickly
falling behind the race that is now dominated by iPhone and android?

~~~
locopati
afaik webos has the best multi-tasking system out there and the easiest entry
point (since it's just js, css & html)

~~~
aschobel
"Best" in what sense?

Android's life-cycle and Bundles makes a developer think about saving app
state information from day one. Something as simple as a configuration change,
rotating orientation, recreates your Activity.

Since creating and destroying your activity is such a common occurrence you
are forced to save the state info.

When the OS needs to kill a background activity to free up space it tends to
work.

Really good YouTube video explaining this:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL6gSd4ugSI>

~~~
armandososa
I think it's "Best" interface-wise. The cards metaphor is awesome.

~~~
aschobel
It's a fabulous metaphor, but "Can't open any more Cards" really detracts from
it.

Palm may have nailed the UX, but Android nailed the engineering.

------
evo_9
This is very surprising. I'd speculated that Sony or RIM would consider buying
them once HTC fell out of favor. Sony seemed to be a good fit from a capacity
to deliver a high quality product, plus they have ability, much like Apple, to
sell stuff at a premium.

RIM seemed less likely but given their need for a new phone OS, it seemed like
a pretty easy fit. Corporate culture might have been a factor against them
doing this deal, hard to say.

HP's not the sort of company that can enter a new market like this and turn it
on its ear, but maybe I'm wrong. They did have the foresight to buy DEC Alpha,
which seemed like a great fit, but then they did nothing with it.

Here's hoping for the best.

~~~
CWuestefeld
_HP's not the sort of company that can enter a new market like this and turn
it on its ear_

This isn't a new market for HP. They've been a leader in the PocketPC space
for years, with their Axim line, and Compaq's Ipaq link (no, Apple didn't
invent the "i" thing).

I wonder now what's to become of the Ipaqs. I assume that the Windows Mobile
based devices will simply be phased out.

~~~
zain
The Axim was from Dell, not HP. The iPaq was created by Compaq and taken over
by HP in their acquisition.

~~~
CWuestefeld
+1 for you on the Dell thing; my mistake. But my point still stands on the
ipaq thing.

------
minouye
So Palm = Groupon?

[http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/13/groupon-raises-huge-new-
rou...](http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/13/groupon-raises-huge-new-round-
at-1-2-billion-valuation/)

~~~
TotlolRon
An apple and orange may sell at some day at some market to some buyer for
roughly the same price. Doesn't make apple == orange.

~~~
armandososa
That's a very good insight.

------
MWinther
I hope HP gets WebOS to be a big enough player to mean great things for
innovation in the mobile device space going forward. Gotta love competition as
a consumer!

------
samratjp
<joke>I guess HP figured out that when print media dies, it can't sell as many
cartridges and figured it would tow along a sinking boat to its tanker ship.
</joke>

Whatever the case may be, HP needs to put blinders on Palm. Palm needs to
ultra focus on one good phone. How did they forget that they used to focus so
well on the Treos that Blackberry seemed pale in comparison.

------
sanj
For years I've loved HP's printers but found the _drivers_ to be a complete
mess. I've been left with the sense that they have a incredibly solid
hardware/firmware group, but the rest of their software was incredibly poorly
designed: that they really didn't understand software at all.

Is there a compelling reason to believe that HP won't make a mess of the
software in WebOS?

------
thought_alarm
Man, that is a big pile of cash. It hardly seems worth it, but if HP wanted to
be a player in the mobile space now they are.

But Palm has a (very long and storied) software problem, not a hardware
problem. HP doesn't have much of a reputation in consumer-grade OS software
development so I'm not sure how they will be able succeed where Palm failed.

~~~
ashishbharthi
Software problem?

Though Palm Pre and Pixi didnt sell as expected, Palm's WebOS has received
pretty decent feedback from all over.

~~~
thought_alarm
They spent an eternity trying to develop a successor to the old Palm OS, then
they abruptly threw it all away and created WebOS by sticking WebKit on top of
a Linux kernel.

As a result, WebOS has been plagued with performance and reliability problems
that they're still trying to address, and that shouldn't surprise anyone
familiar with system software development.

They've also had a lot of trouble getting 3rd-party development off the
ground.

------
mikecane
All of you developers, does this excite you as a potential development
platform now? Watching past Palm/webOS postings here not gain any traction
made me wonder why. Was it the dismal outlook? Was there something wrong with
the dev suite Palm offered? Does the hp acquisition change all that for you?

~~~
elai
Lack of an app market and developer tool immaturity (incomplete documentation,
private methods for complete implementation, non-obvious debugging, etc)

~~~
mikecane
Thanks for letting me know. Since there hasn't been much buzz about developing
for webOS, I never heard details of whether it's actually any good. I hope hp
will fix all that.

------
mcantelon
Hopefully this won't mess with the webOS mojo. Palms seems to be doing some
pretty interesting stuff these days.

------
RyanMcGreal
Can't be worse than buying Compaq.

------
apinstein
I can't imagine this going well for HP or Palm. Palm has already been passed
around 5+ times and it just gets chewed up by bureaucracy worse and worse each
time. HP also doesn't really have a strong history of stylish consumer
electronics, particularly in the non-business market, which is frankly what
the mobile market is all about. It's all about hearts & minds.

With Apple and Android clearly the top players, and Microsoft always being a
long-term contender, I don't see how there's any room left in the marketplace
for another major player.

------
maukdaddy
UGH poor Palm employees. I am so sorry.

~~~
sachinag
Really? They should be grateful that they look to still have jobs. If Apple or
Microsoft or Google bought them, a bunch of them would have been laid off.

~~~
rubinelli
HP cut deep when it acquired EDS, from top management all the way down to the
trenches. I don't think they will leave much besides (parts of) R&D this time.

~~~
izendejas
That's because there was lots of overlap w/ EDS. They already had their own
services division, a pretty big one at that, so they had to cut out the
redundancies. Not the case with Palm. HP doesn't have many software
developers, and much less for mobile platforms.

------
joshu
I'm an idiot. I've been mulling buying some PALM for a while.

~~~
eekfuh
By awhile, I hope you mean less than a month, since they've been in a downward
spiral and a month ago were above the $5.70 asking price. 2 months ago they
were at $8 and 6 months ago they were at $16 per share. It was a good thing
you didn't buy it (unless you purchased December 2008).

~~~
batiudrami
I misread it and thought he meant he was considering buying the entire company
and was disappointed that HP beat him to it.

------
glhaynes
So, Pre hardware running VMS, then? I like it...

------
superk
Classic HP move...first to follow last.

------
dnsworks
I have to think that HP could just throw $100m at the problem and build an
embedded OS that's far better than Palm, without having to take on the assets
of a long-since failed corporation.

~~~
simonsquiff
That would take them how long? Buying Palm they get that now.

~~~
dnsworks
Probably a lot quicker than it will take to save the sinking ship that is
Palm. Sure this is a market penetration play, but why? Palm was a failure.
PalmOS was a failure. WebOS might be cool, but the damage is done. Google is
making good penetration into the mobile market, and they didn't need to buy
grandpa to do so.

~~~
jmtulloss
PalmOS was hardly a failure. It was far and away the most popular mobile OS
for the better part of a decade.

