
Which vegan milk is best for the environment? - camtarn
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46654042
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cheezymoogle
Almond milk is my bugbear.

Comparing the land and water use of cows versus almonds is ridiculous for many
_many_ reasons.

If you've been to a cattle ranch (not a CAFO) and to an almond farm, you'll
know exactly what I mean. Almond land use is land _use_ : it's barren of all
life besides almond trees. Ranch land in comparison is typically semi-arable,
has living things other than cows on it, and while cows sequester water (like
all other living animals), the notion that they use more water because
rainfall _catchment_ on ranch land isn't _absolute_ is a collossal error in
thinking.

Also note that _calories_ per 200ml aren't shown, which is really where the
math breaks down. Whole milk has 160 calories per 8oz glass.

Unsweetened almond milk has _40_ per 8oz glass.

Soy milk, the most calorie dense of out all of them, which is totally reliant
upon monoculture, pesticides, and artificial fertilizers only has _80_.

So, you know, multiply the vegan options, or divide the cow milk
appropriately.

There are fantastic naturally vegan foods (including _whole almonds_ and
_whole soybeans_ ). Investigate _those_ before indulging in ersatz
environmental sleights-of-hand.

There are also tenable reasons to be vegan (or at the very least to reduce
animal product consumption). Arguing that lifestyle identity products are
sustainable isn't one of them.

Final positive note: oats and oatmilk are _fantastic_. You can make it
yourself, then cook the sludge for porridge. Oats grow on marginal semi-arable
soil and their husks are useful. Eat more oats.

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bargl
I really don't like arguments that lose nuance. I appreciate you bringing and
pointing out some here.

The study most people quote has a huge variation in CO2 based on farming
practices. It also doesn't compare eating seasonally appropriate foods vs out
of season foods. I think it's an over simplification of a problem to push an
agenda.

Edit: I was trying to hold it in, but I couldn't so here's the rant.

For that matter, we really need to pull out our CO2 calculators and add up
kids, dogs, cars, insulation, houses, etc. Let's see what your CO2 budget can
be.

I get that we need to work toward reducing CO2 footprint, but how many of us
are willing to tell others they should cut the way WE want them to cut rather
than giving them options. The Vegan agenda is 2 fold. If you eat meat, your
bad for eating animals and now for not believing in global warming enough.

No, I believe in global warming, I just prefer to take a bus and try to eat
humanely grown meat that has a lower impact. But that's me, and if you go
vegan and decide you don't want to ride the bus, that's ok. Do what you can.

~~~
uxcolumbo
What is your definition of humanely grown meat?

And secondly how do you ensure it meets your criteria and where do you get it?

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bargl
Good question.

[http://lostinecattlecompany.com/lostine-beef/our-
philosophy/](http://lostinecattlecompany.com/lostine-beef/our-philosophy/)

Find a bunch of people and get a half cow. No not all my meat comes from here,
but this is what I look for when I can.

~~~
uxcolumbo
Thanks - had a look at their page.

I find it a bit strange that they use the word 'harvested'. They mention it's
stress free.

Why not just use the actual words, like killing and slaughtering. Are they
afraid it's going to turn people off?

Animals can feel when they are about to die and this alone creates stress - so
this whole process is certainly not stress free.

I don't think you can kill a living being (e.g. cows or pigs) that doesn't
want to be killed - in a humane way.

We have to face the fact that our demand for meat creates animal suffering and
when it comes to factory farming also environmental destruction and poor
working conditions for other humans. We then have to ask ourselves why are we
eating meat - for survival or for pleasure?

In modern socities it's mostly for pleasure - which then becomes a moral
question, i.e. does my demand for meat justify all the things mentioned above?

Also, when you look up the definition of 'humane' it includes the words
'compassion' and 'act of kindness'. Mixing those words with killing and
slaughtering (when it's not necessary for ones survival) somehow doesn't go
well together.

But making an effort to only purchase meat from those farms you mentioned is
still better than purchasing meat that comes from factory farms.

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the_gastropod
It's weird oat milk is only recently becoming popular. It tastes great, it
blends well in coffee or tea, it's easy to make, oatmeal is dirt cheap, and it
froths up nicely for lattes or cappuccinos or what have you. I'm glad it's
catching on!

~~~
andrewmcwatters
Is it comparable to almond milk or the other... milks? For lack of a better
term. I'd be interested in trying it.

~~~
apendleton
I think it tastes better, though that's subjective obviously. Works better in
hot drinks (foams better and seems to be more heat-tolerant; almond milk seems
to scorch pretty easily and end up tasting burnt). Plus it tastes vaguely
sweet on its own, maybe because some of the starches naturally break down in
production, whereas with almond and other plant milks you either end up with
something cloying or something overly "healthy" tasting, depending which side
of the sweetened/unsweetened dichotomy you end up on.

Nutrient wise, it's definitely lower in protein than dairy milk, but that's
true of most plant milks, so it's no worse than almond there (though probably
worse than soy, or than some of the newfangled ones made from legumes like
Ripple, which is made of yellow split peas). Worth checking the label though
if there are other macronutrients you care about.

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jkmcf
Pea milk isn't represented, possibly because it is fairly new. I've been
drinking Ripple Vanilla and it's like a healthy version of the Carnation
Instant Breakfast shake. It has a thick consistency, unlike almond milk and
friends. It might be too sweet for some.

Ripple appears to be a bad choice of names, though, as a senior lady prompted
me to investigate what ripple meant in the 70s: "A slang term for cheap or
low-quality alcohol, usually wine. Has a negative connotation", courtesy of
urban dictionary.

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mklarmann
I am pretty much impressed by the January spike / trend. This is kind of
mirroring the growth potential behind these products. Just by a rise in
awareness. Somewhat something I believe is slowly developing globally - that
people become more and more aware of the stark issues of climate change and
the already high quality of the solutions.

I love this news!

So, I think water should also be measured in amount of scarce water. There is
no issue when there is enough fresh water supply.

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pledg
How do other factors like transportation from country of origin and other
processing affect the impact? Dairy likely still by far the worst but if you
take into account moving all the almonds to the UK etc

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Simulacra
Should it be sugar free or low in sugar? Cow Milk is so much sugar.

