
Ask HN: What Keeps you from moving? - danielcampos93
So like any person in tech I&#x27;ve seen the growth in second(and third) tier cities as viable places to live. The low rent and ability to build smaller businesses(cafes, rental properties, etc) without massive loans is a big sell. However the dynamism of bigger cities and the flywheel that they sustain draws me to stay.<p>What keeps you from moving to another city&#x2F;town&#x2F;etc(Or what made you move)?<p>What would you need in a smaller city(something like Boise,ID or Salt Lake City, or anywhere in the world that isn&#x27;t &quot;The place to be&quot;) to make the Jump?
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blakesterz
I honestly can not ever imagine living in what I'm guessing you'd call a first
tier city.

The traffic, the people, just the non stop hassle of every day life would just
totally grind me down. _for me_ what you're calling First Tier is really just
not something I would ever want to do, and I'd never consider that Tier One.

You'd probably consider my home here a Third Tier city, but I have non of the
drawbacks and all of the positives here. It's maybe not quite as dynamic,
maybe that flywheel here is a bit smaller, but everything else is easier, it's
livable and easier to live here. I don't make $200/k a year, but I don't need
to make that, or anywhere near that to afford a life that would never exist
for me elsewhere, with money left over to go visit those Tier 1 places a few
times a year.

So for me at least, family keeps me here more than anything, but if it didn't
I'd still stick to 2nd or 3rd tier cities, life is so much easier here.

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nunez
The money was good enough to make me hide my hate for living in NYC somewhat.
Also, finding jobs in Dallas from NYC was surprisingly hard (they either
didn't want to pay for relo, or they thought I was joking). I did have an
opportunity to move earlier, but I met a girl around that time that I didn't
want to leave (we are engaged now).

The hate overcame eventually, so I got serious with my search and moved once I
found a job that kept my NYC salary in Dallas. It took me about three months,
>35 applications and a few LinkedIn messages. That was in May 2016.

\---

We had to go back to visit my family for the week. It was awful (my family
wasn't!). The trains were gross, the streets were gross, the air smelled
terrible, and the weather wasn't great.

I didn't realize how much cheaper eating and drinking out is in Dallas until I
took a friend to a crab roll place in Grand Central. I spent $70 on two crab
rolls and two mainstream domestic beers; I believe they were $8 each.

SEVENTY. DOLLARS. They weren't even that good.

In contrast, when my fiancée and I go to our favorite Thai restaurant in
Southlake (an upscale Dallas suburb), we are able to get three beers made in
house, two spring rolls and two main dishes for under $50.

I spent most of that trip wishing I made it three days instead of seven.

~~~
cauterized
You realize that the place you get crab rolls (or anything for that matter) in
grand central is a tourist trap? The neighborhood Thai place in NYC isn't
going to be all that differently priced from the one in Dallas.

~~~
nunez
Fair point!

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numbsafari
I moved from Philadelphia to the Portland, ME area a few years back. My wife
was relocating to work for an aerospace startup and I found a job working for
an ed-tech startup. So my initial motivation to move was really for her.
Aerospace is a very different field, people tend to move to where the jobs
are, and the jobs tend not to be in big cities.

We ended up leaving Portland and returning to Philadelphia because both of the
startups we were working for eventually ran out of capital and had leadership
issues.

Why didn't we stay?

Well, we're both engineers and we both want to continue doing that for a
while. There really weren't very good MechE jobs for women in Maine. So, that
was a big part of it.

But we aren't entirely happy with big city life, either. Here's what we are
looking for at the smaller towns we are evaluating:

1\. Healthy, diverse economy. This is hard for a lot of small towns as they
tend to be dominated by a single firm, institution or industry. It helps to be
"on the border" or in-between a few things.

2\. University or College. Having an institution of higher education nearby
generally means you have access to cultural institutions (performing arts,
galleries, lectures, libraries...).

3\. Decent internet access. If you are going to work remote (and you're going
to work remote in order to maximize your income) then you want decent internet
access. A lot of smaller towns are now getting FTTH service at better prices
than we are getting here in Philadelphia (home of the Comshaft). We've seen in
this in Norther MN and WI, especially.

4\. Within 2 or 3 hours (at minimum) of a decent sized airport. You will
likely need to travel for work. Smaller, local airports are expensive and
prone to cancellations.

5\. Whatever other personal things you are looking for...

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ebiester
I need to be in a place where it is safe for me to hold hands with my husband.

I need to be in a place where my husband (who is not from the US) is not
discriminated against for his accent or color of skin.

I'd like to be in a place where there are enough other gay people that form a
community.

There needs to be a good food scene. (I'm missing that in Boston.)

The cost of living difference has to be more than the wage differential.

Most of my life was spent in Tucson, Arizona. I don't have the same fears of
living outside the "it" city, but let it be said that a large problem in
Tucson was that there were only so many places to work. That will be a problem
in Boise, because relocating two people for a job is much harder than
relocating one.

~~~
numbsafari
Philly has a vibrant LGBTQ community, lots of immigrants, and an amazing food
scene... and it's a quick hop to NYC or DC. Just sayin'...

~~~
ebiester
The question is about places like Boise, ID. Philly is usually considered a
large city, even if its tech scene isn't particularly well known.

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viewer5
All my friends and family are here, my whole life is here. The idea of moving
away for money (given that I have a steady job) is completely alien to me.

~~~
Yoric
Plus some of us have children who go to school, and all their friends and life
are here, too. You'd need something much stronger than money to get me to
move. Say a pressing need to relocate to another country.

~~~
eli_gottlieb
Similar. My wife's family are here where I am. A lot of our friends from our
youth are here too. I have a really nice job.

On the other hand, the political situation could grow _extremely_
uncomfortable in very short order, so ah well.

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camhenlin
I don't like cities. I've lived in San Diego and Sunnyvale for a while and
didn't enjoy either. When I visit other cities, they all seem dirty and too
crowded for me. Now, I work remotely in a small town. It's cheap, the people
are friendlier, I don't feel packed in like a sardine, and the outdoors are
only minutes away from my front door.

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partisan
Having lived in NYC all of my life, it was hard to imagine places where I
could consider living. After visiting, Paris, London, Seattle all seem viable
though they would seem like lateral moves at best in terms of culture and
quality of life so I stay here.

That said, I don't like the trend of gentrification, classism, disparity, and
the overall sterilization of the city so I would certainly go somewhere with
some remaining personality that doesn't consist of the finding the latest
"hidden gem" restaurant.

I would really love to find a place that is safe, near a beach with clear
water that I can swim in daily. I crave it. But I can't uproot my family. I
have young children and depend on my family for help with caring for them.
Moving would mean separating them from the people who love them and are
invested in their lives and that would seem like a selfish move.

So I stay here.

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falcolas
Family, and despite 8 years spent in the midwest, Seattle and the Bay Area,
not finding a better place to live (views, the people are friendly, and
there's more here to do outdoors than you can do in the time allotted).

Montana is just so damned beautiful.

~~~
danielcampos93
Every time I drive through Montana I am just awestruck. Where in Montana are
you at? Whats the real cold you deal with?

~~~
falcolas
Bozeman. And the realistic worst is what we've currently got - averaging
between -10 and 0F for about a week. Lowest it ever gets is probably in the
-40 range for a day, but the entire city has shut down at that point, and it's
a once-in-a-decade event.

Ultimately, the cold is annoying, but it's no worse than dealing with high
heats - most of the time you're moving from a warm building to a warm car, and
back into a warm building. And you can always put on more clothes. :)

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RickS
Finding, evaluating, and renting/purchasing real-estate is extremely
difficult, and the current market makes concurrent evaluation basically
impossible. This is similar to the job interview problem. Some move faster
than others, and you end up having to either cut options early, or let good
options expire. The situation is very "bird in the hand".

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elliottcarlson
Manhattan is just my home now - I love the convenience of everything, and the
"always open" nature of this city. I've been here for 18 years now, and
thankfully it's no longer just a place for financial or agency jobs when it
comes to the tech sector. I'm far enough in my career where I can afford to
live here and not really worry about much.

I know I can get a lot more for my money elsewhere, and being in a position
where I manage remote employees, with some buying nice houses, it still isn't
enough for me to give up the conveniences I am used to.

This also rules out the west coast tech hubs - I love visiting San Francisco,
but I could never live there. I don't want to _have_ to drive somewhere.

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TYPE_FASTER
10min from the beach. Great schools. If not here, somewhere in the mountains.

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lopezyignacio
As somebody who has been moving every year or two since I was 10, I am trying
to force myself to stay in the same city/country for at least 5 years. Being
in the same location enables you to develop a social network. Most of your
basic needs are already solved (housing, job, visa, friend...), and you get to
spend time focusing on other issues or hobbies. Moving places is an exciting
thing. But you get lots of advantages by sticking somewhere.

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rb808
I'd love to move somewhere smaller, but you'll have to persuade the wife. I
think that is a big issue - large cities allow careers for both partners,
where smaller cities are less flexible. In the old days it was common to move
around to follow the husband's career where now it isn't that easy.

OTOH one of the big differences in the old days more shops and services
available to only large cities where now Amazon etc are everywhere.

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xiaoma
For me, it's a fantastic metro that hooks right into the high speed rail, an
expansive network of parks and paths for biking and hiking, four hour delivery
times, 24-7 conveniences and crazy fast internet service.

Moving somewhere smaller would mean giving up at least the metro. I wouldn't
give up much more than that and there would have to be something really
significant I was gaining in exchange.

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jedberg
The weather, mostly. I grew up in Southern California, and moved to NorCal for
college (and have been here ever since, so more than 1/2 my life now). Even
the Bay Area gets a little too cold for me in the winter.

I love to visit the snow but most certainly don't want to live in it.

Pretty much the only place I'd consider moving to is San Diego, the only major
California city I haven't lived in yet.

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throwaway2016a
I second what some other people say... my friends and family are here. I have
also made it a point to be active in the community and the community is here
too.

With that said, I already live in a second tier city (second largest city in
my State with only 90,000 people in the city) that happens to be a 60 minute
drive to the largest city in the region.

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cauterized
What keeps me from moving out of NYC? Inertia mostly. A little fear of change.
A little indecision.

What would it take to move to a smaller city? Good weather. Good job market.
Decent level of diversity and multiculturalism. True walkability. Great public
transit. Ocean views.

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dpc_pw
The biggest thing is: I don't know where. I moved to US 3 years ago, and while
I find Bay Area to be very expensive, and not necessarily perfect for family
life, I have no idea how would I like living in other places.

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hprotagonist
I've spent 15 years building up a network of friends and family and
connections. Abandoning that support structure is hard to do, and harder now
that I have a family of my own.

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thecity2
I guess I'm one of the few people who stay in San Francisco because my family
was here before tech was.

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gaspoweredcat
im in a smaller city, if it can even be called that, in the UK, im still here
because there isnt really anywhere in the UK i particularly like so i see
little point in moving to another city and i lack the funds to leave the
country and move where i would like to be.

