
‘Gaming disorder’ is officially recognized by the World Health Organization - mikece
https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/18/gaming-disorder-is-officially-recognized-by-the-world-health-organization/
======
mattlondon
This is made worse in my mind for games that are essentially single-player yet
have some sort of online element that means you cant just hit pause or save &
exit whenever you want. You have to keep on going for longer than you want
until it is "safe" for you to stop.

In the old days you could just exit out to the pause menu or save so you could
go to the toilet or answer the phone or talk to your family and your in-game
activities were safe. You could pick and chose when and how you wanted to
play.

Now you _cant stop_ when you want, because if you do you'll just be left
"idle" in-game. This means that you're prey for other players or NPCs in game,
and you risk losing your character's progress and you're back to the start
(sometimes there is a significant time-investment to this progress so
understandably you dont want to risk it). You can only stop when you get to
some sort of safe-place in-game, which means you have to play longer than you
want to.

So you get situations like where if I am playing a game and my wife asks me to
come and see something or make a cup of tea or something, I have to ask her to
wait until it is "safe" for me to stop. I feel like I am prioritising the game
over my wife (and I guess I am to an extent).

I dont like this.

I really wish games would allow you to just quit whenever you want without
risking your in-game progress.

~~~
OberstKrueger
Do you have any examples of games like this? I know there are singleplayer
games that require you to be online even when playing solo(i.e. Diablo 3), but
when you're solo, you can still pause the game. Curious to know what
developers don't allow such actions.

~~~
Drakim
Only ones I can think of is Dark Souls and Resident Evil 6, as other players
can invade your single-player game to try to kill you.

~~~
slazaro
How is it a single-player game then? I think I'm out of touch with newer
games...

~~~
mattlondon
They're single-player in that you play on your own, but you play on your own
with a lot of other people playing on their own. So you could be on a server
doing your own thing, and if you see another character whilst playing, that
could be a human person doing their own thing, or it could be a NPC doing
their own thing (but with the option of interacting with other human players -
chat/trade/fighting etc)

It is essentially a single-player experience but on a shared playing area.

If that makes sense!

Its kinda cool, but this forced you-can-only-quit-when-we-say-so thing is not
cool. Why you cant just safely despawn when you pause or exit I don't know. I
guess it is there for "realism"

~~~
ericdykstra
Let's say your in a game with PVP, are you saying you should just be able to
"safely despawn" to avoid a fight that you think you're going to lose?

Just because you personally have a problem with the way some games work
doesn't mean every single game designer needs to shape their programs to your
preference. If you don't like it, play a different game.

~~~
noxToken
> If you don't like it, play a different game.

It's not that I hate it or the developers for implementing the mechanic. It's
that it's not always conducive to a person in a relationship or with children.
You can always dismiss the person as the problem by telling them to play
something else, but clearly those people don't want to play something else.

We understand why (in some cases) you can't just quit at any time. Like you
said, that means someone can avoid a PvP fight or a lopsided ranked match by
disconnecting without repercussion. It sucks sometimes when you can't help but
disconnect at the drop of a hat, and I don't necessarily think that those
types of mechanics are the fault of the developers.

For example, I was playing a ranked match when my partner fell ill. They were
making it fine for a while, but I was asking if we should go to urgent care.
They flip-flopped multiple times on going over the course of 10 minutes. Then
I plainly asked, "Do you definitely think that you need to go? I don't mind
disconnecting to take care of you, but if I do and you decline, I'll get
penalized for no reason." It makes sense that I would incur a penalty for
dropping the match, but it still sucks.

The point is that if the developing company can find a way for quick
disconnect that doesn't interrupt the spirit of gameplay, it would be a boon
for a lot of players. I know that competitive/ranked modes are pretty much off
limits for me during most of my play time, but that doesn't mean that I don't
want to play against people who are trying their best.

------
keerthiko
> 2\. Increasing priority given to gaming to the extent that gaming takes
> precedence over other life interests and daily activities

This needs to be further qualified, such as by "over extended periods of
time". If you spend a weekend prioritizing gaming over other life
interests/activities, it's no different than having a crunch week at work and
prioritizing work over life interests/activities, neither of which should be
considered a disorder.

Edit: This is shoddy reporting on TechCrunch's part, the official WHO ICD
listing [0] qualifies it thus:

> The behaviour pattern is of sufficient severity to result in significant
> impairment in personal, family, social, educational, occupational or other
> important areas of functioning [...] The gaming behaviour and other features
> are normally evident over a period of at least 12 months in order for a
> diagnosis to be assigned, although the required duration may be shortened if
> all diagnostic requirements are met and symptoms are severe.

[0]:
[https://icd.who.int/browse11/l-m/en#/http://id.who.int/icd/e...](https://icd.who.int/browse11/l-m/en#/http://id.who.int/icd/entity/1448597234)

~~~
widowlark
"For a diagnosis to be made, the negative pattern of behavior must last at
least 12 months: "It cannot be just an episode of few hours or few days,"
Poznyak said. However, exceptions can be made when the other criteria are met
and symptoms are severe enough."

[https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/18/health/video-game-disorder-
wh...](https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/18/health/video-game-disorder-
who/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+CNN+-+Top+Stories%29)

~~~
keerthiko
Yep, see edit on my post.

------
Rotdhizon
Posted it the other day on another thread, will post it here again so people
can see it. Here is my own experience with this.

As crazy as these articles have been about gaming addiction being a medical
condition are, I believe it. I'm in my early 20s, ever since I was in my mid
teens I was addicted to video games. All through grade school and in college
now, I struggle to put the controller down. I routinely don't get enough sleep
because I can't stop playing. As soon as I come home I am on, and I won't get
off until the early hours of the morning. It's a mixture of reasons why I
guess; it keeps my mind off of reality, I enjoy the satisfaction of winning
frequently, and it fulfills my desire of being in a progression based system.
Achievements, knowing that my actions will eventually unlock achievements and
level-ups, it keeps me going. I can't play games that don't have progression
systems of some sort because I feel like without progression, it's a waste of
time. Sure you can kind of get that in the real world, but it's harder and
takes so much longer. Why do that when I have an easy alternative sitting on
my desk? I really want to break my addiction to gaming as it really does
affect some parts of my life, especially academic.

~~~
ericdykstra
Just play enough clicker games until you realize that "progression for
progression's sake" is nothing but an empty dopamine hit.

Games can be a fantastic story-telling medium, a competitive environment where
you can test your skill and intellect against real human opponents, a lot of
pure fun, or a way to spend time playing cooperatively with friends. All of
these can be worthwhile activities in different ways.

Grinding mindlessly to make some numbers go up is not worthwhile at all.
Playing a game just for the progression that you wouldn't play otherwise is a
sign of addiction and can have a substantial negative impact on your life. I
love games, but some self-awareness about what they are actually doing for you
goes a long way to making them a part of a healthy, productive life rather
than something that destroys it.

~~~
naravara
>Just play enough clicker games until you realize that "progression for
progression's sake" is nothing but an empty dopamine hit.

That might be clear for you, but it's not for everyone. The way the OP
describes his motivation for gaming sounds extremely similar to people with
gambling addictions.

Self-awareness isn't enough for everyone. Some people are just wired to
respond to that dopamine hit from progression systems in an especially strong,
self-reinforcing way. They need more help and one of the first steps to that
is endorsing more ethical game design that doesn't go so heavily into building
addictive feedback loops.

~~~
beenBoutIT
Sadly, these people are effectively destined to be exploited by one thing or
another. From crack rock to food or sex or anything else that they find
enjoyable.

------
kingbirdy
I'm curious why this needs its own definition, rather than being part of a
larger "addiction disorder".

~~~
dragonwriter
Because there is no larger “addiction disorder”, and trying to create one
would have a messy and complex definition compared to distinct definitions
that happen to share some features.

~~~
brandonjm
Yet the same organisation that seems to care so much about giving every little
addiction it's own name also lumps every variety of autism under the same
umbrella term.

~~~
mmirate
Each addiction clearly and openly differs in the object of addiction.

Whereas, with autisms, we don't yet know how to analyze symptoms well enough
for there to be a bijection between set-of-symptoms and underlying-autism-
variant; indeed, we can barely even separate autism's causes and effects, if
at all.

~~~
Semirhage
The activity which is addictive varies, but the underlying physiological
mechanism seems to be essentially identical from cocaine abuse to gambling.
Defining the disorder by the pathology rather than an obtuse collection of
symptoms which have a tendency to overlap and merge might be too much for
psychology, but it’s the scientific thing.

~~~
dragonwriter
> The activity which is addictive varies, but the underlying physiological
> mechanism seems to be essentially identical from cocaine abuse to gambling.

No, it doesn't. There seem to likely be some similar key mechanisms involved,
but the shared mechanisms aren't the whole story, otherwise someone addicted
to something would be addicted to everything.

We give different diagnoses for different allergies, even though allergies
have a common key mechanism.

------
mmjaa
I stopped playing mainstream video games last century when, after a 'quick
network game of Starcraft and maybe a bit of Quake on a Friday afternoon at
the end of the work week', I emerged from the dungeon we'd made at work for
the purpose, only to discover it was Sunday morning, and more than 24 hours
had gone by since any of us had even thought about what we were doing.

That was my personal wake-up call. Now I only play MAME games that require,
max, 10 or 15 minutes of investment .. and then I simply stop.

I sort of miss the arcades of the 80's, which didn't seem to really propagate
this addiction as readily as the current madness does.

~~~
nostrademons
Arcades absolutely did promote addiction, they just sucked at it compared to
today's games.

In a classical arcade, you walk into a darkened room filled with animated CRTs
and strange noises. They literally have blinders, designed to shut out your
peripheral vision so the game is the only thing in your consciousness. When
you die, you have 30 seconds to insert more coins and continue, otherwise you
have to start all over from the beginning. Pretty much everything about this
is designed to trigger your adrenalin-based threat-and-reward reflexes.

If modern computer games are more addictive, it's only because they've figured
out how to trigger even _more powerful_ primal instincts. MMORPGs and MOBAs
add a social aspect, and very often a cumulative acquisition aspect
(experience, gold, credits, etc). Simulations and worldbuilders like SimCity,
Minecraft & Factorio engage our higher brain centers like planning and
optimization. Mobile & casual games have figured out how to squeeze gaming
into even smaller timeslots within our lives.

It's also interesting how gaming & gambling have converged. It used to be that
a slot machine was a machine where you pulled a lever and tried to match up
dials. Now you walk into a casino and it basically looks like an arcade, with
lots of computerized gambling games on backlit LCD displays, while Internet
games like CryptoKitties let you play & trade with real (well, fake) money.

~~~
bitL
> they just sucked at it compared to today's games

Games these days are far far more interesting than most movies, TV shows or
other forms of entertainment. With photorealistic rendering coming combined
with AR they might even override the need for exploratory travels outside pure
relaxation stays (i.e. if you can visit Alaska/Antarctica/Japan/Petra/whatever
with photorealistic graphics, would you really want to travel there? I guess
you'd rather go to some beach or clubbing place to unwind instead)

~~~
filleduchaos
Of course people would still want to travel. I don't know how to put this
nicely but not everyone is a recluse.

~~~
bitL
I traveled around the world already. Now I'd rather visit some places only
virtually and park on Maldives or Miami for relax.

------
matt_s
PSA: Playstation has a 'Family Management' feature where you can limit game
time played on sub-accounts. You can set time limits per day and the action to
take like auto-logout. It reminds the player as they get closer to being out
of time.

I don't think we know the effects of modern video games on younger (aka
developing) minds yet. Many of these games hire psychologists [0] to help
engineer game play to keep people wanting to play because if they get bored
and move onto another game it could be a loss. I don't think old school games
like Zelda or Mario were engineered this way.

Think about a game like Tic-Tac-Toe and how after a certain age it becomes
boring. Now add leaderboards, points for certain types of wins, customizable
X's and O's, customizable game boards, avatars, seasons, etc. The game is the
same but now you have multiple games encompassing the game of popular 'skins',
points, 1-upping competitors, etc.

[0][http://theconversation.com/the-business-of-addiction-how-
the...](http://theconversation.com/the-business-of-addiction-how-the-video-
gaming-industry-is-evolving-to-be-like-the-casino-industry-83361)

------
nickjj
All 3 of the article's points could be applied to any hobby / passion driven
profession.

Next up...

Guitar disorder

Karate disorder

Baseball disorder

Fast forward 10 years...

Someone coins the term "hobby disorder" after detecting numerous patterns of
people wasting their life away on doing things they enjoy.

Fast forward 20 years...

Being passionate about anything is a thing of the past. Everyone works a
corporate job at 1 of 5 companies in the world (people stopped innovating and
a few large tech companies took over everything).

<tinfoilhat>

Sounds like a good way to begin the journey towards even more income disparity
between the 1% and the rest of us.

</tinfoilhat>

~~~
Micrococonut
This is really funny. How much have you "innovated" while gaming? You are
living under the thumb of entertainment media already. You're trapped in your
time waster instead of innovating.

~~~
ekianjo
Everything is a time waster until you know, investments pays off. Playing an
instrument is a time waster until it turns into something you can market. Its
difficult to judge future benefits of current actions.

~~~
ionised
Why does everything have to turn into something you can market?

So you spend a few hours playing games and you have nothing to sell or shill
on Hackernews. Is that a problem?

Did you enjoy yourself playing those games? Yes? Then why isn't that enough?

Downtime is important.

------
Synaesthesia
I started playing Starcraft and watching it about 2 years ago. I’ve always had
an obsessive mind and had stopped playing games since high school. It’s
reached a point where I almost dedicate every free moment to playing. Games
are incredibly addictive and it can be hard to stop. Back when I didn’t play I
never understood why people play games so much. Games used to be only for
geeks and boys but now everybody plays them. They are addictive and I think
it’s a growing problem.

~~~
ericdykstra
Starcraft and RTS is general is a great game that rewards higher-level
strategy thinking, attention management, and a number of other skills.
Becoming proficient is no joke, and pros need to spend more of their time
practicing than traditional sports because there is less of a physical tax
from practice.

But it's just like any hobby. If it's not your profession, you need to make
sure you're not putting your long-term health or the health of your
relationships or other responsibilities aside just for quick shot of pleasure
or adrenaline.

~~~
WhompingWindows
For Starcraft specifically, I've probably played 2k hours of SC:BW and maybe
3-4k of SC2, so I'd agree it is no joke and practicing is quite important. I
managed to reach the top 2% of MMR by grinding out numerous games (as Zerg,
FWIW), averaging 2.5 h/daily at my peak. I would practice economy/production
(macro) and build orders outside of my matches, then bring those in to the
competitive 1v1 ladder and figure out all the weird rush builds that needed to
be scouted for/prevented.

I actually am trying to cut out games, however, since I find the stress on the
wrists/hands that comes with coding + piano + gaming to be too much. So, when
push comes to shove, I just end up watching some SC pro matches these days, as
opposed to putting my wrist health in jeopardy.

~~~
ericdykstra
That's awesome! Reaching Master League in SC2 is quite an accomplishment. I
did it myself with Zerg and then Protoss, but only barely and only in 2
seasons.

The high intensity, unreachable skill ceiling, and quick feedback loop of
Starcraft really taught me how improving a skill needs to be an active
process. You don't just get better by grinding out games (at least not
efficiently); you need to study your own play, find weaknesses in it, and work
on them methodically. Having that background has helped me in other kinds of
skill acquisition.

------
bitL
How about addiction to social networks, status updates, fake snapshots
pretending one's having a dream life and for virtue signalling? Being glued to
a smartphone for that is more profound than basement-dwelling gamers.

~~~
keshav_
they didn't say these things can't be addiction.

~~~
bitL
Why is suddenly some fringe gamer "epidemics" treated as more important (WHO
level? seriously?) than vastly more prevalent smartphone-based social
addiction?

~~~
willio58
If the WHO hasn’t started looking at social networks and the like, it’s just a
matter of time. Why should there be a hault in studying the effects of games
just because there hasn’t been enough studies on social networks and phones?

~~~
bitL
Only by "shouting" about it and comparing it to a more benign addiction I can
individually bring focus to that issue.

------
amelius
Why is every researcher treating addiction like it's bad behavior that needs
to be avoided in order to be cured, instead of researching ways for humans to
keep on getting the satisfaction, while curing the side effects?

(I know "curing the side effects" sounds bad, but it's basically what we
want).

~~~
skohan
It may not be possible. Addiction is a disease of our systems governing
attention and motivation: Normally those systems should adapt so that we pay
attention to those things which are most relevant to our long-term well-being,
and so we are motivated to act in ways which sustain our well-being and
success.

Addiction occurs when a pattern of exposure to an acute stimulus activates our
reward system in such a way that our attentional and motivational systems are
subverted to cause us to seek out more of that short term reward, at the
expense of our long-term happiness.

The "satisfaction", as you put it, is the subjective experience of that
overwhelming, system-breaking reward signal. To get that experience without
the resulting behavioral consequences would require us to fundamentally
augment how reward affects the brain. It's doubtful it's possible to do that
with addictive stimuli without causing wide-reaching effects on general
learning and adaptation.

------
Micrococonut
Gamers are so sensitive about their addiction. Like an alcoholic being called
out.

~~~
asfasgasg
I don't think most people would advise "calling out" as an effective modality
for approaching addicts in general.

~~~
Micrococonut
Good point. But I think the reactions are pretty telling that there is a real
problem.

~~~
Karunamon
A bit of well poisoning, don’t you think? That one can’t call shenanigans
without supposedly being affected?

~~~
rosser
It's not the fact of calling shenanigans; it's the vehemence with which it's
being done.

There's an inflection point beyond which "[he] doth protest too much,
methinks" becomes at least as parsimonious an explanation, if not moreso.

EDIT: Not to say that's happening here, specifically, but ... _gestures
around_ there's definitely some emotionally-driven reaction to this idea,
amongst (and probably also behind) some of the criticism.

~~~
icebraining
Nowadays that society is more liberal in its acceptance of nonconforming
behavior, referring to addition is one of the most effective ways of getting
general acceptance to curtail people's freedom, so it's no wonder that people
react with alarm.

------
oligopoly
Next up Social Media Disorder (SMD), Internet Disorder.. I'd be surprised if
the latter isn't a thing already

~~~
ekianjo
i expect Wikipedia Disorder as well for people who are too curious and read
too much. So basically any deviation from the normal boring person is a
disorder,says the thought police.

~~~
creep
Yes, and anyone looking for help in managing their lives will get slapped with
any such term and made to feel like deviants.

I've been "diagnosed" with all sorts of things. ADHD, ODD (obsessive defiance
disorder), asperger's (ASD 1), GAD (generalized anxiety disorder), and I'm
sure I qualify for others. The thing is, there was always this search like
that to look for what was the ultimate cause for my distress. And then, after
all that searching, nothing came of it because I grew as a person. And I think
there's a small thing there, which is that if you have a diagnosis, you have
an excuse, and oh, you'll have loads of friends with similar diagnoses who
will encourage you to whine and wallow in it and make excuses, and there will
even be competition as to who is the worse for it.

I think the system is very wrong.

------
ourmandave
Isn't there some overlap with gambling addiction, given the tactics used by
games like Candy Crush, etc.?

~~~
kdll8
Financial investing...

------
Tycho
Video games are fine for some people, but for nerd-like personalities they
present far too great a temptation to supplant real life goal obtainment with
virtual status/achievement. I think its helpful to make people aware of this
tendency, and unhelpful to wave it away with a comparison to some more
widespread non-nerd past-time like watching TV or sports.

~~~
loupeabody
How precisely do you define "nerd-like" personalities and what is it about
them that is susceptible to having a "gaming disorder"?

I feel like there's not much that would separate a gaming disorder from
addictive behavior in general. So much so, actually, that to grant a special
term for a video game related illness comes off as a little ridiculous.

~~~
Tycho
The essence of nerdiness is the elevation of the abstract at the expense of
what's real, including the elevation of accomplishment in abstract domains
(eg. video games) at the expense of developing social skills and progressing
towards real life milestones, and the misunderstanding of social relations and
social status owing to incorrect, reality-starved mental models. Often
manifests itself in things like unwelcome pedantry.

As another poster (always_good) observes, there is a huge observable
difference between video game addicts and substance abusers. I would not
expect nerds to be substance abusers, and I would not expect substance abusers
to be video game addicts, but everything about video games, in their
construction of alternative realities and virtual goals and online
communities, is like a glove tailored to the hand of nerd-dom.

~~~
loupeabody
> Often manifests itself in things like unwelcome pedantry.

You callin me a nerd, Tycho?

So, broadly, I can agree that a tendency towards escapism is what would make
someone develop a "gaming disorder". And perhaps video games are the pinnacle
of what our culture can offer as the richest form of escapism.

But I still don't think that's enough to draw a categorical line between the
vices through which escapist tendencies become pathologized. It seems to me
the solution to the mentation of escapism is to reinforce what you appeal to
as "anti-nerdiness": pursuing meaning in a world you can (and do) fully occupy
with the senses. And I agree there too.

Noting the bit at the end of the article about how terribly few people
manifest a "gaming disorder" is what I'm not pleased to hear. Calling it a
"gaming" disorder makes it seem like if you get rid of games, you've solved
the problem. But obviously that's not necessarily the case, and so I think
it's a useless distinction which potentially obscures the real issue.

If the WHO is making an indictment against the entertainment industry to
formally warn against the ethical risks of making games which exploit escapist
tendencies, that's fine. But I don't think there's actually much of a problem
here that couldn't already be meaningfully identified as an addictive
tendency.

~~~
noobermin
While not all addiction is due to escapism, it cannot be escaped (no pun
intended) that it can be a catalyst. What we as a society need to stop doing
(same re opiod addiction for example) is stop labeling and treating symptoms
instead of addressing the root causes.

------
em3rgent0rdr
Calling everything a disorder should be officially recognized as a disorder.

~~~
tomnipotent
This is the perfect word to call them.

    
    
       dis·or·der
    
       noun
       - a disruption of normal physical or mental functions; a disease or abnormal condition.
    
       verb
       - disrupt the systematic functioning or neat arrangement of.
       - disrupt the healthy or normal functioning of.

------
vectorEQ
Increasing priority given to gaming to the extent that gaming takes precedence
over other life interests and daily activities

So, we all have a code and/or computer disorder. gg guys, lets get on dem
zombie pillz ...

'gaming addiction' would be better term. and then even ,the problem is being
addicted, not gaming.. people get addicted to all kinds of shit. having a
interest in something more than other things is normal. and call that a
disorder is criminal.

~~~
piva00
It's vague because it's an individual case-by-case assessment, it's not
something easy to simplify to a checklist, it's a spectrum.

Yes, if the increasing priority begins to affect other aspects of your life
negatively it's a disorder, like any other addiction, don't get defensive
because you can relate to the description of the symptom.

~~~
inter632
> Yes, if the increasing priority begins to affect other aspects of your life
> negatively it's a disorder, like any other addiction

Loads of people that have a passion for something, whether it be music,
painting, coding, cooking, etc.. are experiencing a negative impact on their
lives in some way. This seems very obvious to me. I play guitar and for many
years I've practiced more than 10 hours a day. This had a very negative impact
on my income to the point I had to stop to avoid becoming homeless. Is my
passion a disorder because I don't make enough money with it? Are all
successful musicians suffering a passion disorder? Should they quit making
great music for the world and work for McDonalds living a depressed, and above
all pointless life?

Some years later I started coding and a new passion arose. For years, and
still today I code often more than 10 hours a day. Only now it positively
impacts my income. Do I have a disorder? Do I need to stop and get treatment
for being a passionate coder? I honestly think I'm quite lucky to have a
passion for something that renders income.

I've played World of Warcraft for years, sometimes a real lot too. I have
great memories of great times with my online friends. It is not something I
will regret when my life comes to an end. I cannot play as much as I want
because it will negatively impact my income. Should I regret now because I
possibly have a 'gaming disorder', should I feel bad about the good times I
had? Should I prevent others from having the time of their life? Should we not
better ban eSports completely because too much gaming is bad? All pro players
back to poverty, doing a stupid depressing job, but totally enjoying their
'disorder free' life?

Oh, and btw, I love coffee :)

------
RcouF1uZ4gsC
This whole thing with trying to place a medical diagnosis on behaviors is too
much. This is really no better than the old Greek humors theory where if you
were sad, you had an imbalance of melancholy.

There are a bunch of human behaviors, many of which are destructive, for which
we don't really have insight into the underlying bio-physical explanation.
Without that understanding, we should not be turning them into medical
diagnoses.

~~~
contravariant
So basically you're against clinical psychology?

------
hugja
Correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't South Korean have Gaming/Internet Addiction
Centers for those with "Gaming Disorders"? I remember seeing something about
this from a eSports documentary some time ago. Unfortunately I don't remember
name of it.

Edit: found it
[https://youtu.be/of1k5AwiNxI?t=1150](https://youtu.be/of1k5AwiNxI?t=1150)

------
amarant
does this mean I can call in sick to play more splatoon? I think this means I
can call in sick to play more splatoon.

------
rhacker
So we're basically just replacing the word addiction now?

~~~
falcolas
More accurately, addiction to the point it has a severe negative impact on the
rest of the patient's life.

~~~
rhacker
I was severely addicted to video games when I was a kid. My parents kept
saying I was going to be a garbage man (ignoring the insult to garbage men) I
don't think it would be the norm, but because of my interest in games I was
interested in computers and here I am. I'm not like a top earner 1M / year AI
developer or anything, but it definitely didn't impact my life. Now if my
parents had taken me to some kind of "gaming disorder" center to get fixed, I
would.. probably be a garbage man right now.

~~~
icebraining
Taking you to an addition center would be an overreaction as a first measure.
More sensible first steps would be to simply limit the gaming time, possibly
by getting you to do something else for part of the day.

------
georgios
An important aspect of identifying new disorders or creating new diagnoses is
that it facilitates access to treatment and services for those that need it.

That means that those few people that have serious consequences because of
excessive gaming will have the right to get treatment covered by insurance.

------
jokoon
As crazy as it sounds, I think I managed my gaming time by actually designing
my own because the games i have been playing never satisfy me.

I usually get bored pretty easily, and there are no games that can really make
me play for a long enough time because there is something that frustrates me
about the game mechanics.

It's actually very satisfying to think about game design as a programmer, and
to spot what can be improved in games i like so i might better enjoy playing
and sharing them in the future.

------
announcerman
Is obsessing over things related to real life like social ties, money, career,
or anything else that will surely pass after you die a disorder? If it isn't
then why not?

~~~
cirgue
Because activities related to those things create sustained material security
and personal fulfillment. Your efforts at building a strong network of friends
pay dividends for decades, the equivalent amount of time playing video games
has no bearing on your life a year from now.

~~~
announcerman
So in your opinion all efforts that result in the optimization or improvement
of something decided as relevant by yourself are worthwhile?

~~~
cirgue
All any of us have here are opinions, and yeah it’s my opinion that any time
spent doing things that don’t lead to some better future state is the pastime
equivalent of junk food: I eat junk food and enjoy it from time to time, but I
also don’t ever make the mistake of confusing it with nourishment or trying to
justify why it’s good for me.

~~~
announcerman
I do not mind your opinion or way of life, but if I consider other things to
be relevant, why can't I use my time to improve in them? Just as you do with
the things you consider relevant? As long as the activity doesn't infringe on
anyone's liberty why should you be branded as defective for engaging in it?
Besides, it is hard to pinpoint what a better future state means. Doesn't it
mostly depend on what you consider important to improve?

------
srrge
As a 43 year old with two jobs and two kids, I found myself playing 500 hours
of PlayerUnknown's Battleground in a few months. I had to uninstall the game.

The addiction was very real.

~~~
matt_s
Did you lose your job, destroy relationships with your family and friends?

Or did this merely replace 500 hours that would have been spent watching TV,
Netflix or other types of entertainment?

The word addiction has a real meaning with some clinical ways for a trained
person to diagnose somebody as having it.

I think of addiction more like alcoholism. Sure video games are engineered
these days to be huge time sinks but that doesn't make it an addiction. If you
can drop it (like you did) and it doesn't impact your life, its not an
addiction.

~~~
srrge
I am self-employed (I actually run two small companies) and I sent some of my
work days playing PUBG. Also I had less interaction with my kids and wife, and
no other hobby really.

I looked at PUBG videos very often, sometimes live streams, at the office
during the day.

I was thinking about PUBG all day long. It was bad.

~~~
matt_s
Awesome that you're running two companies!

I was just pointing out there is a difference between an actual clinical
addiction vs. a really bad habit.

I know the feeling about gaming and have been in similar shoes. I actually
stop myself and check if I am doing something out of habit or because I want
to... and have found I want to do other hobbies more, its just the inertia to
get over the habitual actions that is the problem sometimes.

~~~
srrge
The point that you dispute is the term addiction. You mention an "habit" for
instance. My point is: video games can REALLY be an addiction even for older
people.

------
s0adex
I once had this problem. Especially when I used to work from home. The game
was one click away from being opened. I used to play around 6 hours per day on
weekdays and the whole day on weekends. I had to do treatment to get rid of
the addiction, I really don't know how I didn't lose my job at that time.
Although I ended up replacing it with other kinds of addictions, these new
additions are way more subtle than the gaming and easy to manage.

------
zeofig
Now they just need to recognise the disorder making my dota 2 teammates so
noob.

~~~
rteDev
They have. That's the Dunning-Kruger effect.

------
shiburizu
I'd say the following points need to be made about "gaming" because the
perception does not reflect reality when you play a videogame:

\- the classical "neurotic player who doesn't like distractions and spends
hours on VoIP getting angry at the game" is the reflection of a lot of the
people who get into real-time multiplayer in MMORPGs or now games like
Fortnite. This isn't quite how it stands for a lot of games, genuine one-and-
done experiences like God of War or going back a bit to the Wii didn't have
this continuous "one more" feedback or ridiculous length of content (3 hours a
night raiding is tiresome and stressing for some people)

\- The fighting game community has the oddity of gathering in large
tournaments, building community on them and treating their games with immense
discipline in learning to the point where others complain the barrier of entry
to being "good" is too high. More than any other genre, fighters offer real-
life experiences. E-sports is picking up on this*.

\- Something to consider when determining the "why" of prolonged play is also
the community or social aspect of the game. I play a lot of videogames, I
admit, and one of the things that makes me commit a lot of hours into a game
is when I can talk about it, talk to people in it, build a common interest and
execute it. I live in a country where I speak my second language more than my
first and hopping online to play in English is definitely some strong
escapism. This is my experience, but so many people get online these days for
the strong community tools (Discord, subreddits). It's primarily this aspect
that makes me question any attempt to compare it to gambling/watching
sports/binge watching movies or what have you. Gaming is built on a huge
internet infrastructure because social features build long-time users.

I totally appreciate the definition of gaming disorder being sacrificing other
healthy parts of life to continue feeding your need to play videogames but
maybe this made sense if everyone was still playing the Super Nintendo (and
even then we mocked it) but the world, and maybe it's just because enough huge
corporations threw enough money at marketing to make it happen, has managed to
genuinely change real-life because of videogames. This is far too dismissive.

Other posters mention this and I'd probably say that they refused to consult
people in the game development industry/competitive gaming
organizations/prominent players because they'd like to poison the well by
assuming they'd never admit they have a problem (Although I suppose that might
have to do with EA and the like refusing to have ethical debate instead of
filtering us through an endless marketing machine, taking notes from
Hollywood)

Side note: First post on HN after long time browsing. Feel free to rip this
apart.

------
creep
Oh! They've come up with a new disorder again. How nice.

------
inter632
Hmm, this feels odd.. Do they mean: eSports professionals are having a 'gaming
disorder', unlike old fashioned sport professionals?

------
Mirioron
A bad parent could easily make a child fit all the criteria given by just
being a bad parent.

Something like this should not exist in the ICD. There should be a general
addiction disorder that puts forth general criteria for showing that a person
has an addiction for something.

This just looks like a scapegoat to me.

~~~
dragonwriter
> A bad parent could easily make a child fit all the criteria given by just
> being a bad parent.

That's just as true of lots of diagnoses of physical and mental conditions and
injuries. (bone fractures and PTSD are obvious examples.) The fact that bad
parenting can cause a condition doesn't invalidate the diagnosis of the
condition.

> Something like this should not exist in the ICD. There should be a general
> addiction disorder that puts forth general criteria for showing that a
> person has an addiction for something.

The inherent differences between different subjects of addiction require some
source specific variation, but various addictive disorders in either the ICD
or the DSM do have generally similar criteria.

> This just looks like a scapegoat to me.

A scapegoat for what?

~~~
Mirioron
>The fact that bad parenting can cause a condition doesn't invalidate the
diagnosis of the condition.

You misunderstood me. The bad parent causes it by being there. If you removed
the bad parent then there would be no problem.

One of the criteria (although not mentioned in this article) is that the
person is having negative consequences happen in a family situation because of
their gaming. A bad parent could cause these negative consequences by simply
being a bad parent and as a result the kid could withdraw into gaming. With
this disorder around the parent can simply blame the kid playing games without
looking at their own behavior.

>A scapegoat for what?

For people who alienate those close to them, so that they can blame something
else other than their behavior. If a kid wants to interact with their family
then they will.

------
XalvinX
Yet more bullshit "diseases" invented by the psychiatric community to push
drugs for their big pharma overlords. Doesn't the WHO have better things to
do, like fighting real diseases such as malaria?

Everybody goes on little sprees of one kind or another during their lives.

Up next, "sudden love syndrome" ...the symptoms are about the same, aren't
they? No, in fact they are exactly the same if you replace "your new serious
romantic interest" with "video game".

And also, I remember being pretty addicted to D&D for awhile in my teen years,
so we clearly need "RPG disorder" and better throw in "Board Game Disorder"
for people hooked on Scrabble or Risk.

WHO, GTFO!

~~~
bitL
Can't wait to see the name of "medication" for gamers - "game over" pills?

~~~
XalvinX
Wow, at least one person on the same page as me here. I just don't care what
people think..."addiction" to a game and the associated anti-social and
possibly self-destructive behavior is just not a disease. Or, if it is, then
the sky is the limit on what will be called (and yes, medicated) as a disease.
And I don't like the trend...look at the stats, they are medicating tens of
millions of children in the US alone for crap just like this.........

