Ask HN: YC rejected twice. Why? How can we improve without knowing the reason? - nisthana
======
thecupisblue
1\. I find your app's design distracting. It is outdated and it gives me waaay
too much info. Both the colors and the blurred background bug my eyes.

2\. Your website shows testimonials first, then has a short banner, yadayada,
then I have to watch a short video on how it works which is just a video of
app in use. I'd love to know what it is first, then read testimonials, then
see a demo.

3\. Looking at your instagram and you should definitely hire a designer.
Instagram is where your audience is and where you should be targeting with ads
and growing your userbase.

4\. Your "Chat" tab has some nice view numbers! That's great - maybe organise
it a bit more? This could be a potential goldmine. Here's an idea. Take quotes
from those essays, put them on a blank colored canvas and post on IG. Example:

"NYU is fucking amazing when you get here because it's free, interesting, the
teachers are hella cool" and hashtag it with proper tags. You'll probably get
some attention and when user arrives to your profile he should see what you
are and how you can help him.

Also, kifler asked legit questions.

~~~
nisthana
BTW - today I tried your idea of posting the text on IG. Thanks for the idea
:-) I also changed the website based on your suggestions. Hopefully its better
than before

------
hluska
With all due respect, someone who got accepted to Yale would not write:

"I was accepted at Yale. Julia of Mentr was amazingly helpful and guided me
all along the way. I'm so thankful her who helped me with my essays and got me
to this point."

Obviously fake testimonials and stock photos are major red flags. If you have
to use fake testimonials, for the love of all that is holy, find a good
writer.

~~~
thesmallestcat
How is that obviously fake? Are you saying every freshman at Yale, including
international students, speaks and writes perfect English?

~~~
hluska
Maybe not perfect English, but I'd expect a significantly higher level of
English than that quote demonstrates. Add in a stock photo and why would
anyone think that that is real?

~~~
jtbigwoo
I volunteer with two organizations--one group serves mostly privileged high
achievers (kids on track to be lawyers, architects, etc.) while the other is
made up of kids who are probably only 50/50 to graduate high school. In both
groups, most of the kids are TERRIBLE writers. Their vocabulary is usually
fairly limited and their writing is stilted and repetitive.

Being a good writer generally doesn't matter in high school. Most classes
don't require much writing and for those that do, they just require students
to convey the right number of facts and avoid most grammar mistakes.

Kids also engage in far more code-switching than adults, I think. When asked
for a recommendation, It's possible that this particular kid just dashed off a
quick email rather than really sit down to write something engaging.

~~~
nisthana
Thank you so much for your comments. Coudnt agree with you more specially the
last part :-))

------
kifler
Genuine question: What value proposition does your company offer? Can't I get
these same questions answered from a variety of different sources?

Additionally, some of the mentor responses lack a certain level of
professionalism to be called a mentor. Example: "Question: Hi I am applying to
NYU this fall. I have never visited NYU before because I live all the way in
California. I was wondering if you could share your experience starting at
NYU? Also any background info like where you came from, how was the
transition, did you have to move far, etc.? Any extra information you want to
add would be rlly helpful. Thanks in advance!

Answer: Absolutely! I'm from Chicago, Originally. (not the actual city, the
suburbs. Fucking Suburbia, man.) I hope it makes you feel better to know that
I'd never visited NYU before actually ..."

~~~
nisthana
Sorry, I should have replied here-- @kifler - Mentr is a peer to peer
mentoring platform for college and career advice. It lets high schoolers, who
are unable to find any help related to college (except for factual info
available on google), with real college students to get college advice. It
fosters peer to peer communication, which is exactly whats happening right
now. It does not mandate someone should have a degree in "mentorship" (if
there is anything like that) but allows free information to be served. In the
example below, the NYU student just felt like "fucking suburbia" and thats
what she wrote. Moreover, as a company, we love when such "open" discussions
happen and not afraid to hide it. Thats why you see this is as the top thread.
If anyone feels all the communication between peers should be professional or
highly intellectual, they need to hire professional college counselors. Was I
able to answer your question satisfactorily?

~~~
kifler
So what's stopping me from checking into r/nyu and asking a multitude people
to respond?

Where is the money to be made?

What makes a freshman mentor qualified to actually talk about the breadth of a
program or a career when they have little to no exposure of a full 4 year
program or job-track?

There are a number of questions that aren't answered succinctly on your site
(at least that 'pop-out' at me) or within your post.

~~~
nisthana
These are good questions. Thanks for asking them. 1\. Why not go to r/nyu - I
never said Mentr is the only place to get into but Mentr makes sure the
students are real, and we verify their identities. Not sure if reddit does
that? 2\. Money is made when mentor renders a service like reviewing someone's
college essay, or hosting someone for a campus tour. They make 70% of the
transaction 3\. They are qualified because they made it to their school. Also
as I mentioned, the platform is for peer to peer communication. As long as the
mentors have relevant experience to share, and are willing to help someone we
will accept them as mentors. We also personally interview every mentor to make
sure they are a good fit. 4\. Thanks for the input on the website. We are
struggling for resources to make a top notch site and that's one of the
reasons we really wanted to be in YC so we can fix these loose ends. Really
appreciate you asking me these questions!

------
nisthana
FYI - I have redesigned the website based on all the great feedback received
from everyone. [http://mentr.io](http://mentr.io)

------
smt88
Edit: I was wrong. The testimonials are real. Only the first picture is a
stock photo.

I just quickly checked out Mentr, the company listed on your profile.

The very first picture is obviously a stock photo[1], which I confirmed with a
Google search.

Lying to customers and misrepresenting prior success might be a common tactic
in Silicon Valley, but it also shows a lack of integrity (and lack of users)
that would worry me as an investor.

If you can't find 5-10 real people to use your service and talk about it, you
should move to the next idea.

1\. [https://www.pexels.com/photo/woman-in-black-blazer-jacket-
on...](https://www.pexels.com/photo/woman-in-black-blazer-jacket-on-wooden-
bench-206559/)

~~~
nisthana
Thats not true. All the students are real, except the one who did not send her
profile picture. I could have left it alone, but she is one of the best
student success stories. I did not lie, I can share their emails. Also not
sure if you ever ran a company, but many times in business you need to take
these risks. You need to work with whatever you have.

~~~
closed
It sounds like OP's feedback is not that you shouldn't take risks, but that
they think the risks you took may backfire with investors. (Or rather would
backfire with OP, an investor, or someone taking that perspective).

------
smt88
Your goal should be to build a sustainable business, ideally one that is cash-
flow positive very early on. If you can't do that, a secondary goal _might_ be
to try to prove your concept with some paying customers.

When you reach those goals, you'll get investors (if you need them). They may
be YC or they may not. YC isn't the only source of money, and there's no
evidence that it's the best one, either.

If you can't reach those goals, badgering investors into giving you some money
isn't a solution. It'll just prolong the life of a business that's doomed to
fail.

------
andrewmcwatters
> So why don’t we tell people why we didn’t invite them to interview? Because,
> paradoxical as it sounds, there often is no reason. The median application
> is usually pretty good. The reason it gets rejected is not that it seems
> particularly bad, but that there are a sufficient number of others that seem
> particularly good.

[1] [https://www.ycombinator.com/whynot/](https://www.ycombinator.com/whynot/)

~~~
nisthana
Well thats stock statement written by a lawyer. YC should spend time letting
founders know where they failed, and what can they do to improve. We spent
days to write the perfect application, why cant they spend few minutes for the
feedback? StartX does it. They called me for a 15 min feedback and told me
where I was wrong. I loved it because I came to know my blindspots.

------
Alex3917
> How can we improve without knowing the reason?

Add a zero to your KPIs, then apply again. Repeat as necessary.

------
nisthana
@kifler - Mentr is a peer to peer mentoring platform for college and career
advice. It lets high schoolers, who are unable to find any help related to
college (except for factual info available on google), with real college
students to get college advice. It fosters peer to peer communication, which
is exactly whats happening right now. It does not mandate someone should have
a degree in "mentorship" (if there is anything like that) but allows free
information to be served. In the example below, the NYU student just felt like
"fucking suburbia" and thats what she wrote. Moreover, as a company, we love
when such "open" discussions happen and not afraid to hide it. Thats why you
see this is as the top thread. If anyone feels all the communication between
peers should be professional or highly intellectual, they need to hire
professional college counselors. Was I able to answer your question
satisfactorily?

------
mikeleeorg
My feedback would be to work on making your business successful, regardless of
getting into an accelerator program. If you can succeed, the act of doing that
will resolve any concerns any accelerator program may have.

And if you're wondering why you'd need YC if you are succeeding on your own -
sometimes you don't. But the benefit of an accelerator, or even investors, is
that they can take your existing growth path and increase it's speed
tremendously.

------
nisthana
@hluska if Y Combinator cannot deal with the speed that a startup needs to
move, which means things cannot be perfect, then my startup is not a good fit
for them really. But as far as I know YC, they love scrappy people who put
together things people love. My company is already changing people's lives by
helping them get to college and thats all what matters. Screw "good english"

------
davidddavidson
1\. Even if your testimonials are not fake they do not come across as genuine
but instead like the text from a 419 scam.

2\. What is w/ the text "Care your family" in the top carousel?

------
JohnJamesRambo
This app just makes me keep thinking of the protege Seinfeld episode.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoQQuwuoHpQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoQQuwuoHpQ)

~~~
nisthana
Lol. So true. I might use it for my marketing purposes :-))

------
db48x
You can't improve your odds at a roulette wheel either.

------
nisthana
Thanks everyone. I love all the comments below, and let me explain them one by
one.

------
azeirah
Ask them, not us.

------
nisthana
@everyone - If you cannot help, I dont need your sarcasm.

@smt88 - well said and every entrepreneur knows this goal. However in order to
make a sustainable business, it needs initial capital and marketing investment
to be able to reach a critical mass. Without that, the product will not have
enough usage to go beyond its current state.

I did not apply to YC for investment, it was for the network they brought with
them. They could connect me with growth hackers who can get the marketing done
with smaller budget. Their mentorship would have been beneficial to take the
business to next level.

I can get loan from the bank, but that does not mean its valuable.

~~~
andrewmcwatters
> If you cannot help, I dont need your sarcasm.

This is not a productive way to talk to any community.

~~~
rokche123
I feel this statement could carry a lot of meaning about the original question
as well. It was obviously not the feedback they desired, but one needs to be
able to accept opinion once they as for it. Hopefully, they will pick it up
this time.

~~~
nisthana
I accept all opinions - but not the ones that are not useful. For example
someone said something about roulette. How is that useful? Why did they even
spend time to write that statement? I love critical comments, I really love
them. I have replied to each comment above. What I can't take is sarcasm.
That's it.

~~~
mseebach
You quite frankly appear to have somewhat of an attitude. You come off as
defensive and carrying a chip on your shoulder. Why on earth would you get
yourself involved in a petty fight over people writing comments that aren't
"useful" on your post? Have you never used this site before[1]?

People try to give you feedback that your site feels fake to them. You're not
internalising it, you launch straight into a hurt defence. Someone quoted from
YC policy, presumably to shed some light on the situation, and you dismiss it
as a stock response written by a lawyer, lecture them on what they should be
doing and start praising a competitor.

In short, if you already have all the answers, what do you need YC for?

1: Frankly, your apparent confusion as to how commenting works is a bit
jarring - it befits someone asking for help to acquaint himself a bit with how
things work, but that's the least of your problems.

~~~
nisthana
Ok this I feel is super useful for me. You gave me actionable feedback and I
am super thankful. I will definitely improve upon this. Yep I get defensive,
thats something I am working on. I took all the feedback to heart. The person
who commented on the "fake testimonial" did change his statement (check it
out). I tried to find a real user image but I felt I cannot use any user's
image without asking them. So I am trying to internalize all comments. I also
replied to everyone who took time to help me. I have not used this site much.
I have been active since the YC application days. > Why on earth would you get
yourself involved in a petty fight over people writing comments that aren't
"useful" on your post? - Yep I should not have. It was not worth. My bad.

> Have you never used this site before - Only sometime

> You're not internalising it, you launch straight into a hurt defence - I
> will improve

> Someone quoted from YC policy, presumably to shed some light on the
> situation, and you dismiss it as a stock response written by a lawyer - I
> still think its a stock response. YC should do what it should. I don't
> expect everyone to agree with me (hope this is not attitudish, i am simply
> narrating my stand on it without being influenced by anyone)

>start praising a competitor - Whats wrong in praising a better service? Isnt
that the freedom of such forums that people can express their opinions?

> if you already have all the answers, what do you need YC for? - I don't have
> all the answers. I still need to find out the answer to my original question
> - why did YC reject me twice. Some folks have helped me by telling me that
> its combination of team/domain expertise and traction. But would have been
> nice if YC could have told me that themselves. >1: Frankly, your apparent
> confusion as to how commenting works is a bit jarring - it befits someone
> asking for help to acquaint himself a bit with how things work, but that's
> the least of your problems - I am not sure if I understand.

~~~
mseebach
> The person who commented on the "fake testimonial" did change his statement
> (check it out).

It doesn't matter. That person almost certainly isn't a potential customer.
I'm not either. Changing our minds is a waste of your time. You won't get a
chance to debate the people who come to your site and turn away because it
looks fake.

> I still think its a stock response. YC should do what it should. I don't
> expect everyone to agree with me (hope this is not attitudish, i am simply
> narrating my stand on it without being influenced by anyone)

The attitude is that it seems like it's very important for you to be right
about things that doesn't matter (or you have very poor judgment in seeing
what matters). That's a very unpleasant trait, and if the YC interviewers
caught even a little bit of that, I suspect they'd fail you flat out on that
alone.

> Whats wrong in praising a better service? Isnt that the freedom of such
> forums that people can express their opinions?

What's wrong is that it's off-topic (and also has a bit of the "important to
be right" thing above). People came to _your_ thread to help _you_ find out
why you didn't get accepted, not to debate whether YC is stupid.

> I don't have all the answers. I still need to find out the answer to my
> original question - why did YC reject me twice. Some folks have helped me by
> telling me that its combination of team/domain expertise and traction. But
> would have been nice if YC could have told me that themselves

"Having all the answers" is a figure of speech. It means "not listening when
people are trying to answer your questions". Nobody here can tell you why you
were rejected, but they can offer ideas. And it looks a lot like you're not
listening to any ideas that doesn't fit your preconceived notion of why you
were rejected. How do you know that the people telling you it's because of
"team/domain expertise and traction", are right and not the ones that think
your website looks fake? Hence, having all the answers.

> I am not sure if I understand.

Your style of commenting is all over the place, and suggests that you have not
spend some time acquainting yourself with the way comments are done here.
That's a bit impolite, but obviously can't be the reason you were rejected. On
the other hand, if it's indicative of poor communication skills, then that
could be a big problem.

