
Ask HN: Is the Thiel Fellowship worth it? - max_
http:&#x2F;&#x2F;thielfellowship.org<p>I want to apply, but i need advice from someonewho went through it.
======
dfield
I cofounded Figma with the support of the Thiel Fellowship. It was
_definitely_ worth it to me, but dropping out of school is a very unique and
personal decision. You should definitely apply and you should introspect
deeply before taking it.

BTW, some of the statements on this thread that "fellows are used as poster
children for Thiel's vision of society" and equating taking the fellowship to
becoming a "living cog in his anti-education political statement" are just
downright false.

I actually assumed going in that we would need to do press or something; after
all, I've always heard "there's no free lunch." However, in reality I found
the fellowship never pressured me to do media if it wasn't helpful for Figma.
In fact, Figma was in stealth mode for the entire two year fellowship. There's
literally no downside other than not attending school for two years. (And you
can quit at any time to go back.)

If anyone has specific questions about the fellowship, feel free to reply and
I'll try to answer later today.

~~~
max_
I am currently in my first year studying B.Architecture. But I want my lifes
work(my core passion) to be around Software/Tech.

I enrolled to Arch school simply because I thought it was cool and did not do
Computer Science cause the syllabus here is kind of out dated (they lack, an
Artificial Intelligence module, something i want to get deeply into)

~~~
elmin
The vast majority of what you learn in a CS program was published in the
50-70s. Just because it's a little outdated doesn't mean there isn't a lot to
learn. Also, don't forget that you can always change schools, as hard as it
might seem, it can be the right call.

~~~
sammydavis
One thing that modern CS programs should give you is more insight into the
engineering and craftsmanship side of programming. Also, I think most of
techniques we use to build distributed systems today were built way after the
90s. Think of the all the stuff google invented, plus other significant
systems paxos, etc. In the 70s they were trying to build scalable relational
databases, now we can build things that scale much more, and it's not just
hardware, it is the techniques to handle them.

All that stuff might not matter if you are most startups, because they don't
need to build that huge shit usually, you can just use someone else's
infrastructure.

~~~
semigroupoid
The article introducing Paxos was first published in 1989.

~~~
jonathan_mace
I think he means the rise of commodity cluster computing, a la
[http://static.googleusercontent.com/media/research.google.co...](http://static.googleusercontent.com/media/research.google.com/en//pubs/archive/44922.pdf)

------
jtmarmon
Thiel Fellow here. The question is not whether or not you should take it, it's
whether or not you should drop out.

I had already dropped out when I took it so it was a no brainer for me. If
you've already dropped out or decided to I don't even know why you're asking -
at worst it's free money.

If you're asking whether or not you should drop out, that's a pretty
opinionated thing and depends entirely on your circumstances, but I'd
recommend you go for it (fellowship or not). As morgante said, you can always
go back to college. 10 years from now sillicon valley might not be so friendly
to us tadpoles

~~~
Harimwakairi
While I completely agree that attendance at a four-year university is
overhyped as The Key to Success, the idea that "you can always go back to
college" is flawed. While people do go back to school all the time, calling a
multiyear timeout on making money is extremely difficult once you start
acquiring real responsibilities, and working a real job while in school is no
cakewalk.

source: I dropped out, worked as an engineer, then went back and graduated at
29.

~~~
cableshaft
And another thing you might not consider if you drop out or delay college now:
college tuition has been increasing really fast for well over a decade now,
and it's not clear when that's going to stop.

I took an 8 year hiatus from school, and when I went back, tuition had doubled
since the last time I attended. I ended up graduating with $25k in student
loan debt, whereas if I had stuck it out the first time around it would have
been a much more manageable $12k.

I wouldn't be anywhere near in as much debt right now if I had taken out loans
and stuck with school the first time around.

------
traviswingo
The Thiel fellowship is for individuals who have a clear idea what they want
to do and how they are going to execute it. It's for those select few
individuals who think school will only slow them down on their path to making
a difference. If you're already second guessing if it's worth it or not,
before you've even applied, you should take a step back and think about how
important school really is to you and if you're the type of person who
believes in themselves so much you'd think it a waste of time to sit in a
classroom.

~~~
brian_cloutier
That is not true. I know multiple Thiel fellows who either don't have a
definite goal or have wildly changed their goals since becoming a fellow. A
bit of soul-searching seems to be encouraged.

You also don't have to think college is a waste to think that being a Thiel
fellow is better. You just have to think that a Thiel fellowship is better.
That's not difficult, you're given some pretty incredible resources.

~~~
lostdog
How has it turned out for them?

------
hackuser
Why not take advantage of college and all that you can learn there first? The
chance won't come again to study the world ... not just IT but history,
natural sciences, neuropsychology, literature ... and to do it surrounded by
peers and with a faculty of experts to advise and teach you, and all those
resources: Labs, libraries, etc.

You can do startups later and will work for the rest of your life. Does the
Thiel Fellowship really reject the same person if they happen to have a
college degree? They _must_ forgo college?

~~~
max_
I want to build a company, my course is 5 years, am already 20 and the age
limit for application is 22.

in case i wait, I do not think i have another chance of getting 100K like that
again.

~~~
hackuser
That's too bad about the age limit. You could change to a program that you can
complete by the time you're 22, but I'm sure you've considered that.

> I do not think i have another chance of getting 100K like that again.

I certainly am in no position to make recommendations (nobody is), so I'll add
some general observations:

1) You'll have other chances at $100K (if you're someone who has the skills to
build companies). It's a good opportunity, but $100K investments aren't once-
in-a-lifetime for a moderately successful entrepreneur. In fact, I would guess
that the social capital, the network, is worth far more (and will yield far
more investment than $100K).

2) Life will not work out at all like you plan. That doesn't at all mean that
you shouldn't pursue goals and dreams, but I wouldn't be too rigid about any
particular opportunity or outcome as the only option, do-or-die. Most startups
fail; many others end up doing things their founders never expected. And life
is much more than startups and work. Enjoy the ride.

I hope whatever you choose turns out to be a fantastic experience.

~~~
max_
thanx!

------
tedmiston
The general answer to this question for any accelerator-type program is: talk
with someone who went through it and you trust.

Alternatively, look at outcomes of the companies from (recent) batches, but
_be careful_ \-- that can lead to attributing too much to the program vs.
innate qualities of those founders.

If you can't find a connection to someone who went through it personally, try
a cold email.

Many founders will give you a short call or respond to a well-written email
that briefly and directly asks about their experience and recommendation if
you can prove (briefly) your qualifications. If you're going to take this
approach, expect to be very open with sharing details of your idea.

With the Thiel Fellowship specifically, you may consider reaching out to the
founders of Sprayable Energy. They ran a successful Kickstarter campaign [I
was a backer], and are pretty cool dudes.

[http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/20/sprayable-
energy/](http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/20/sprayable-energy/)

------
vessenes
If you aren't already plugged in to Silicon Valley in some way, getting
accepted will definitely help your startup career, mostly through knowledge
and mentoring acquired and the relationships. Social capital, essentially.
Plus all the knowledge you get trying to make a startup go.

I would imagine if you'd been accepted, you could always go to University once
your startup is 'done', either finished or acquired, and you would likely have
your pick.

That said, you get a different sort of social capital from going to a top-tier
school and graduate school, and of course, in a good technical degree program
you will learn a bunch of useful things, largely around rigor of thought, how
to learn, how to work with peer groups and just how much smarter than you many
people are.

Peter says those things don't matter, and in a way he's right; for the
indomitable, driven hard-working, socially skilled, lucky entrepreneur,
college is bullshit. Seriously, a total waste of working years. For the rest
of us, there are benefits, especially at a top-tier school.

------
morgante
I didn't go through it, but you should almost certainly apply. You can always
decline later.

I'm too old for it, but it's basically free money. You can always return to
college later if you really want to.

~~~
SaaS_throwme
> but you should almost certainly apply

Also, need to remember it adds up - YC, 500Startups, tech stars, etc. and then
pondering about the results and then the sorrow phase after not being
accepted.

Weigh your trade offs.

~~~
jstandard
If you can't deal with rejection or selling people on your idea/yourself, then
entrepreneurship is likely not the right path for you.

If it takes a few rejected applications to learn that, it is time well spent.

~~~
SaaS_throwme
Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. Dealing with rejections takes time, you get
distracted, you get sad, it kills time which can be put in much better use.

You can deal with rejections, but that doesn't mean you have to deal with
rejections.

You can use the time to make your product better. Someone famously said "Be so
good, they can't ignore you", being mediocre and spending time in those
activities is not very fruitful.

------
jpeg_hero
What every you do do not go back to college! Go work at Burger King, go into
the woods and forage for nuts and berries.

~~~
traviswingo
Ha. I'm stoked for season 3 in a couple weeks.

------
giaour
Kind of, in the sense that fellows get a large check and few responsibilities.
You have to drop out of college, but you can always reapply and return.

Not really, in the sense that fellows are used as poster children for Thiel's
vision of society. If you don't agree with the seasteader movement, you
probably won't appreciate being a spokesperson for that worldview. If a
different organization you disagreed with offered you a big check to drop out
of college and act like a true believer, would you do it?

~~~
ESRogs
Are you really asked to be a spokesman for seasteading? Or are you just
pointing out that fellows will find themselves associated with it

~~~
giaour
Fellows will find themselves associated with Thiel's political stances.

------
jasonlaramburu
I have 3 friends who did it. Of that, 2 eventually went back and got their
degrees. They also commented that their parents were a bit upset about the
whole thing. It seems like the Thiel Fellowship doesn't have the same kind of
formal, large investor network that a program like YC offers, which is
important for success. You should apply to YC and Thiel and then make your
decision once you get accepted to both!

------
paulpauper
These fellows are selected for high IQ will benefit either way. By virtue of
his intelligence, connections, and family wealth, Bill Gates would have been
successful whether he stayed in college or not.

I'm sure many of these failed fellows will go to college and resume where they
left off.

------
selectout
I wasn't in it myself but am friends with several who were. It seems to be
absolutely worth it. As morgante said earlier, you can always turn it down.

------
throwaway52353
What you get.

\- Incredible peer group

\- Access to the best professional network on the planet

\- Help to make things happen

\- Introductions to investors

The price you pay.

\- Part of billionaire's PR effort. Personal consequences for mistakes that
might lead to negative PR

\- Pressure on fund raising. Big raise == success

------
gravypod
Something that rung true with me was something one of my friends told me long
ago.

    
    
      You go to college not to build your dreams, but to build someone else's.
    

If you know what you want to do, and know how to do it there is no need for a
college.

If you want to go and work for someone else, you need a college education.

~~~
hackuser
There is so much more to college than learning vocational skills and a
certification. Those skills are only a tiny part of it and self-development,
especially of your intellect and knowledge, is most of it.

~~~
gravypod
I don't think that anyone would suggest that someone motivated could get by
with building their own dreams without subjecting themselves to academic
torture.

~~~
hackuser
> academic torture

If you start with that premise, there's nothing left to discuss. But many find
college worthwhile and the best years of their lives, personally and
intellectually.

------
a_imho
Meta, the lack of https and the outdated copyright is a bit embarrassing imo.

------
redtycoon
you probably should apply soon, they take forever to respond :/

------
wcummings
Doesn't hurt to apply, right?

------
jarcane
Are you morally and ethically comfortable with taking money from a fascist to
be a living cog in his anti-education political statement?

~~~
burkaman
Isn't he mostly a libertarian? You can't just label all political views you
don't like "fascism".

~~~
jarcane
He's buds with the NRx scene, funds Moldbug's company, and the two basically
quote each other's anti-democractic, anti-education, anti-woman rhetoric
regularly enough to be a known quantity. He basically wrote a whole book aping
Moldbug's "Cathedral" theory. FFS, he gave money to Ted Cruz, a guy who makes
Donald Trump look less frightening.

I sure as shit don't want his dirty money, not even to slack off for two
years.

~~~
XFrequentist
"Anti-woman"? On what is that based?

(Agree that the other antis listed are indeed self-evident, btw.)

~~~
burkaman
You could infer that from this:

"The 1920s were the last decade in American history during which one could be
genuinely optimistic about politics. Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare
beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies
that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of
“capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron."

\- [http://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-
thiel/education...](http://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-
thiel/education-libertarian)

So basically women have ruined any chance of democracy achieving the political
goals he wants. I'm sure he would disagree that this is anti-women, but it's
not hard to read it that way.

He sort of addresses this criticism at the bottom of the article, but not
really:

"It would be absurd to suggest that women’s votes will be taken away or that
this would solve the political problems that vex us. While I don’t think any
class of people should be disenfranchised, I have little hope that voting will
make things better."

~~~
sammydavis
Just educated myself on the Moldbug fellow and The Cathedral and Dark
Enlightenment. Liberal progressivism, such ideas as civil rights for women,
civil rights and tolerance for gay people and people of color, health care for
poor kids are seen as terrible?

What's wrong with these D.E. people? If you are born into a poor family you
should just die, or starve to death?

~~~
burkaman
I think the idea is that classes are a good and natural thing, and if you're
born into a poor family, that's because you and your family are naturally
(genetically) inferior and you deserve to be there. And they like hardcore
unrestricted capitalism, so if you're a worthwhile person you'll pull yourself
up and be successful. The ideal government is just a monarch who enforces the
law and does nothing else, so you wouldn't have welfare of any kind.

As for civil rights, I think basically they look at old successful
civilizations and say "they were all sexist and racist, so that must be part
of their success". But as I'm sure you know, capitalism solves all problems,
so if social equality is really a good thing, countries will compete to ensure
equality so they can retain the best citizens and businesses.

I apologize to any darkly enlightened people if I have misunderstood your
beliefs. Feel free to darkly enlighten me.

~~~
emgoldstein
No one can enlighten anyone; you have to enlighten yourself.

Where did you get this picture of the pre-1968 world? For instance, your
picture of classical Europe as "hardcore unrestricted capitalism" is frankly
bizarre; you seem to be projecting 19th-century classical liberalism, a left-
wing ideology in its day, back two or three centuries:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercantilism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercantilism)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-
Baptiste_Colbert](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Baptiste_Colbert)

My turn: feel free to undarkly enlighten me. Watch this movie, or even skim
it, then tell me that all is for the best in this the best of all possible
worlds:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBZ6hgA-
Cc4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBZ6hgA-Cc4)

When this film was made, most women didn't have to work; now they do. When
this film was made, African-Americans had a 25% illegitimacy rate, which
Moynihan thought terrifying; now they have an 75% illegitimacy rate (with
whites at 25%). When this film was made, women in college were treated like
ladies; today they're treated like Casanova's whores. When this film was made,
Detroit was America's third-largest city; today it's a ruin.

Tell me again what your abstractions have done for women and African-
Americans? For Detroit? For anyone, for anywhere? Can you find me a population
that was struggling in 1966 and is thriving now? Can you find me a place that
was a shithole in 1966 and is gleaming now? I can sure as heck find a lot of
examples in the other direction...

~~~
burkaman
Oh I wasn't trying to describe classical Europe, I was describing what it
looks like DE people want from the little I've skimmed. I won't pretend to
know much about either topic.

