

Ubuntu's window buttons to stay on the left - mattyb
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/532633/comments/564

======
andrewvc
I'm just stunned and puzzled by this, the best comment in that bug [1] puts it
pretty succinctly:

 _It should be mentioned that the discussion would be much more productive if
there was actually an official stance, a wiki documentation, a blog post, or_
anything* explaining the reasons for the change.*

I only read the first 80 comments , but I can't find anyone who really finds
this to be a good change, and there's yet to be a good explanation offered as
to why this would improve anything. Quite simply, what problem does this
solve?

1: [https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-
themes/+bug/...](https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-
themes/+bug/532633/comments/51)

~~~
dflock
That's my main issue with all this UI twiddling that Canonical are doing at
the moment - the left hand buttons, the notify actions removal, removing
tooltips from indicator items, and gnome's great menu-icon removal of the last
cycle.

There's absolutely no data, no testing and no rationale to backup any of these
changes. No-one has been able to point me to impirical data, or any user
testing to explain why these sweeping changes have been made, because there
hasn't been any. Some XU designer thought it looked 'cooler' or 'cleaner' that
way, so it got changed - end of story.

I really tried with the left hand title bar buttons - but after a week of 15
years of muscle memory putting my mouse in the wrong place every single time,
I just had to change it back. Even if I had got used to it, so what? They're
the same buttons in a different place - why is it an improvement to move them?
If there's no demonstable benefit to moving them, why is it worth making all
your users retrain their long established muscle memory? What's in it for
them?

If there _are_ demonstrable benefits to these changes - then tell people what
they are - demonstrate them - rather than just telling people to shut up. That
will cut down on the bickering comments no end.

~~~
epochwolf
I can't related to this. I switched to OSX fully time over two years ago after
using Windows most of my life. I adjusted to the close button being on the
left in about a week.

~~~
dflock
I think you night have missed the point of my post.

------
mdasen
Well, at least they decided to go with the order "close, minimize, maximize"
which follows Mac OS X's standard rather than creating a third standard.

~~~
NathanKP
I knew this had to happen back when I first saw the mockup screenshots. I am
totally happy with the new window controls now. It only took me a week or so
to get used to window controls being on the left when I switched from
primarily Windows to primarily Mac OS X. People will get used to it
eventually.

~~~
dflock
'People will get used to it eventually.'

I expect you're probably correct. What's the point, though? Why is it better
this way? Why should thousands (millions?) of users retrain their muscle
memory? What are the benefits to moving these windows controls from one side
of the window to the other?

Are there any benefits?

~~~
epochwolf
_Are there any benefits?_

It's now easier for people that decide Ubuntu wasn't everything they wanted to
switch OSX?

------
mattyb
Headline from here:

<http://lwn.net/Articles/381546/>

and to move them back:

[http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/13535/move-window-buttons-
bac...](http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/13535/move-window-buttons-back-to-the-
right-in-ubuntu-10.04/)

or

    
    
      gconftool-2 --set /apps/metacity/general/button_layout --type string "menu:minimize,maximize,close"

~~~
ableal
Thanks. Seems the (currently leftmost) 'menu' button is gone, and we need that
fix to get it back.

I use that button to kick windows to the correct workspace. But it seems a
righ-click on the bar also works. One of the things Ubuntu was better at than
the Mac ...

The application icon in the button was pleasant too. I also liked a few
colorfully distinct icons in the tray/notification area in 8.04, currently
drab grey a la MacOS.

~~~
mattyb
I discovered this by accident a few months ago, but for the keyboard lovers,
Ctrl+Shift+Alt+[Up/Down/Left/Right arrow] will move the current window to the
workspace in that direction.

------
newsfu
I ran Linux because I disliked Windows, and then all of the Linux UIs started
emulating Windows. Only Windows is now emulating OS X, and now the typical
Linux desktop looks like a really old version of Windows.

I blame fvwm95 and everyone who liked it. ;)

Windows has never been Unix-y, OS X is Unix-y and friendly. Steal what's worth
having and then invent something totally new.

Ubuntu is on the right track here. I hope they go farther:

-> Make paste Alt-V instead of the current Ctrl-Shift-V. Make close window Alt-W (for Window) instead of Alt-Shift-F3 (or whatever it is). Generally make the keyboard friendly for Terminal users and stop using awkward chorded key combos for things people do every day.

-> Stop wasting space with a toolbar on every window and stick it on top of the screen. (For those who may complain about the position of the Mac toolbar-- remember your Linux desktop probably does -both- a toolbar on top of the screen, -and- a toolbar on every window.)

-> Go from a window-centric model to an application-centric model where I can quickly switch between applications and windows without leaving the keyboard. (i.e. Alt-tab, Alt-~)

I've tried to go back to linux desktop (kde, gnome) and it was a struggle to
use, even just to manage emacs, a bunch of terminals, and a web browser. I
still like e16.

I don't know what to make of xulrunner (XUL in Mozilla was too magical) but
the concept is right. Native C w/ Javascript as the HLL, and wrap older
applications in a Canvas... Newer apps would combine Javascript, HTML, and
native code. Wrapping application dependencies (clipboard, fullscreen, etc.)
in Javascript (where new standards are emerging anyway) would provide
incentives for application developers (cross platform, cost savings, no qt
versus gtk, web reuse, etc.) Grant you'd still need custom native widgets
-and- Javascript lacks a concurrency model. Just a thought.

------
kellishaver
I have a Mac I use regularly. I have a Ubuntu machine I use constantly, and I
have a Windows machine I use when I have to. I love the Mac UI in general, but
I've always had a slight preference for the menu buttons on the right. It just
makes more sense to me. To close a window, I click on the right-most corner of
that window. I read from left to right, closing the window is the last thing I
want to do with a window, since by that time, I'm done with it. The buttons on
the right mean that the X to close comes last in the order of all of the
info/tools in the window chrome. To me, this just makes more sense.

~~~
pak
Ehmm. For this thought to make sense, all your windows would have to be text
only, one line that you always want to read and doesn't wrap, with no other
way to dismiss except the close button, and with your cursor always following
along with your eyes.

By your logic, actually, the close button would be best placed in the lower
right for any window with several lines of text.

------
megamark16
Honestly, how difficult would it be to just make it a simple customization
option in the Appearance preferences? Left or right orientation.

------
avar
Everyone's talking about how they went from right to left but few mention that
they also removed the "menu" button from the layout.

That's the one that you can click on to make a window "always on top" or
"always on visible workspace". I switched to the old layout to get it back.

~~~
mattyb
As ableal said, you can right-click on the title bar to get that menu too.

~~~
bokchoi
Does Alt-Space still open the menu?

~~~
mattyb
On 9.10, yes. What do people use that menu for?

Alt+F10 = toggle maximize/restore

Alt+F9 = minimize

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+[Direction] = move window to the workspace in that direction

Hmm, Alt+Space then 'T' toggles Always on Top. LSNED

~~~
bokchoi
Of course it works on 9.10. We are talking about 10.4.

I use it to move a window to a numbered workspace. The Ctrl-Al-Shift-Arrows
moves the windows AND switches the workspace. My use case is restoring my many
Chrome browser windows to their proper workspace after restarting.

~~~
mattyb
_Of course it works on 9.10. We are talking about 10.4._

I'm posting this from 10.4 Beta 1, where Alt+Space does still work. All they
did was change the arrangement.

 _I use it to move a window to a numbered workspace. The Ctrl-Al-Shift-Arrows
moves the windows AND switches the workspace. My use case is restoring my many
Chrome browser windows to their proper workspace after restarting._

Good point.

------
keefe
This change really irritates me, as does the styling changes of the tabs.
Enough so that "customize ubuntu" goes from the fun list to the todo list.

------
riobard
Canonical thinks Ubuntu is better than Windows now. Next target to catch up:
OS X. This is just the first step towards that goal.

------
daleharvey
sometimes the most important decision is just to make a decision, and not
leave it on the plate.

not hot about the left hand move, but I like that ubuntu is moving towards
thinking about the ui, and I rarely use those buttons anyway.

~~~
houseabsolute
I bet you'll find yourself using them a lot more than you used to,
particularly when you go to click the leftmost menu bar element.

~~~
daleharvey
I very rarely use the file menu either, its hidden on firefox/terminal and
emacs, which is 95% of my computer time

~~~
mattyb
I just turned the minimize/maximize/close buttons off completely, since I just
use keyboard shortcuts for everything. Chromium uses its own, which is
annoying.

------
jluxenberg
April fools?

~~~
mattyb
_For the avoidance of doubt, this is not a comment dependent on the date :-)_

