

How To Hire An Intern - travisro
http://travisrobertson.com/human-resources/how-to-hire-an-intern/

======
_pi
It still disgusts me how people think it's perfectly okay to flaunt labor laws
with internships. This attitude of it being "free labor" is absolutely absurd.
Do your other entry level positions that may need some training also not get
paid? Just because the person doesn't have the degree or doesn't qualify for
the job otherwise doesn't mean he should do it for free if you train him to do
it. I mean really lets be clear here, there is no job that an intern can hold
for which you would spend more money than they would earn at that job in
training them.

~~~
travisro
While I appreciate your thoughts, this seems like a pretty narrow perspective
on the arrangement. You assume there is no benefit to intern and that it's
"flaunting labor laws."

It's a legitimate exchange of services for something of perceived value to the
intern. They perceive the value they are getting from the internship program
as well worth the time and labor they are providing to the company. Nobody is
forced into "free labor." It's purely voluntary.

Many colleges offer course credit for internships (this has monetary value to
the student). Many companies offer incentives such as permanent employment for
stellar interns. Regardless, those who show up and do great work are usually
rewarded with a network of contacts, personal referrals, industry experience
and other things that can help move them to the top of the job pile when they
graduate and actually go out looking for full-time employment.

All other things being equal, as an employer, I'll hire the candidate who has
the experience over the one who doesn't. I'll hire the candidate who's desire
to work in this field is so great, they'd gladly give up a summer to work for
a company without pay because the VALUE of that experience is greater to them
than any minimum wage job they could get paid for. If they are excited about
working in the industry without pay, think of how much more likely they are to
value the opportunity when they get a paycheck.

~~~
_pi
Labor laws in the US clearly state that if the person is working unpaid the
company cannot receive any immediate benefits for his or her position. This
means that you can't have the person "hands on learning" while working on your
product or working at a client site. That is purely illegal unless they're
doing it for course credit. Again if you take on a college student but they
cannot get course credit, however even if their university offers it and you
derive immediate benefit from their employment it's illegal.

I understand if someone cold cases you for an internship and you cannot pay
them but they want to learn and have some position in your company it's a bit
more acceptable. But essentially if you send out job postings for interns you
support a systematic evil in the job market of the US. These people have no
choice but to work for you if they want to work in their field, and obviously
no choice but to do so for free. You essentially try to write it off by saying
it gives them value or experience but you as an employer are more interested
in the free labor rather than what they derive out of it. There is no way
around that. You aren't hiring them for their sake, you're hiring them because
you get free labor that they are excited to do, and that's the best deal for
you because you get the profit from it.

This hurts what people value their career at a critical juncture when they
enter the job market. They see that everyone has to take unpaid internships
meaning that companies aren't willing to value their work, this gets them
thinking that their work is valueless. Which in turn is worse for any employer
because the performance of the employee would suffer because of this diffusion
of responsibility.

In short posted unpaid internships hurt the job market, hurt companies and
most importantly hurt workers in their most critical time. Not only that but
you seem to relish the opportunity of a person who is super excited to work on
something for you for free, which is disrespectful of anyone you hire. I'm not
against all unpaid internships, but most people see it as free labor, not
altruistically training new employees for the job market. Even this article is
prefaced with "Yay free labor in the summer!" which is what triggered my
response, specifically this line: "I’m talking about internships - free, grunt
work labor in the hopes of making connections and gaining a little bit of
experience along the way."

~~~
travisro
"I understand if someone cold cases you for an internship and you cannot pay
them but they want to learn and have some position in your company it's a bit
more acceptable. But essentially if you send out job postings for interns you
support a systematic evil in the job market of the US. These people have no
choice but to work for you if they want to work in their field, and obviously
no choice but to do so for free."

Wow! You're telling me that if I send out a job posting for interns, not only
am I supporting a "systematic evil in the job market" but they have "no
choice"? Really? First, what systematic evil are you referring to? Second,
nobody is holding a gun to their heads. They have a choice. Do you want to
give up some of your time for a chance to learn something? Yes or no. There's
no duping involved. It's laid out. Also, at the end of the post, I clearly
state that anybody offering an internship program SHOULD offer some sort of
fiscal or other reward if the intern performs well.

As for the line you quote: in context, it's written from the perspective of
the intern - not the employer. I'll concede that it wasn't entirely obvious,
though. :)

~~~
_pi
"Wow! You're telling me that if I send out a job posting for interns, not only
am I supporting a "systematic evil in the job market" but they have "no
choice"? Really? First, what systematic evil are you referring to? Second,
nobody is holding a gun to their heads. They have a choice. Do you want to
give up some of your time for a chance to learn something? Yes or no. There's
no duping involved. It's laid out. Also, at the end of the post, I clearly
state that anybody offering an internship program SHOULD offer some sort of
fiscal or other reward if the intern performs well."

Actually because of the economic situation in the United States people who
don't have senior level experience in the job market take unpaid internships
at companies because they think that they would be better selected for a
position in that company.These people have to eat somehow. It's not morally
right to send out internships and get these kinds of people, and then hire
them. Or try to create a job market such as that while maximizing your own
profits off of these people. It's almost equivocal to outsourcing, only
outsourcing. I'm sure you haven't had these kinds of people ask you for a job,
but keep in mind that does happen. Not only that but many internships even
GSoC are an outright insult for free labor.

For instance the projects for Facebook in GSoC this year were ridiculous, they
wanted college kids to build entire SMTP servers for their platforms, or drop
in a replacement for libcurl, or at least code one, in one summer. Honestly if
you ask me those tasks seem way over the level of students because they are
broad projects requiring a team of developers to test for rigor in the system.
They aren't the only company who pulls stunts like this, there are worse
companies who want this done for free.

"As for the line you quote: in context, it's written from the perspective of
the intern - not the employer. I'll concede that it wasn't entirely obvious,
though. :)"

This also emphasizes my point about the person's view of themselves. No on
wants to be a slave, doing "grunt work", just for a glittering hint of
networking.

~~~
travisro
Do you have any sort of data to back up the claim that people are taking
internships and going hungry because they don't have senior-level experience?
I would think that it being a "systemic evil" would certainly warrant at least
a few newsworthy articles or stories. Besides, nobody is arguing that
something like that would be a morally acceptable situation or that people
engage in that type of activity.

As for GSoC, again...voluntary. The kids have fun and they earn monetary
rewards for their work.

~~~
_pi
Here you go [1].

It doesn't matter if the work is voluntary, I voluntarily buy a product but if
the company knows it's faulty and sells it to me anyway that's wrong. If the
company knows that the job is unfair, and is using it as free labor that is
wrong.

The point is what's morally wrong and in some cases... illegal to the point
the feds have to get involved [2].

[1]
[http://wbztv.com/local/Adult.internship.experience.2.1763471...](http://wbztv.com/local/Adult.internship.experience.2.1763471.html)

[2] [http://www.cartoonbrew.com/student/most-unpaid-
internships-a...](http://www.cartoonbrew.com/student/most-unpaid-internships-
are-illegal.html)

