
Americans are having less sex and researchers are blaming Netflix - rbanffy
http://fortune.com/2017/03/07/americans-sex-netflix/
======
insickness
I would attribute it more the glut of free online porn than netflix. Men
consume porn far more than women because men are more visually stimulated than
women. This has been verified by numerous scientific studies. In many ways,
women can't compete with porn. Hundreds of years ago, the average man would be
delighted to get sex from the average woman in his local community. Through
porn, your average guy has seen more naked women than all his ancestors
combined. These women are far more physically attractive, sex-hungry and
available than anyone he could meet in person. Today, after seeing countless
videos of the the most physically attractive women imaginable, perfectly
suited to his preference, taste and sexually proclivity, the average woman
seems like a lame approximation for what can be accessed readily online. Men
are far less willing to deal with all the pitfalls, annoyance and cost of
dating when an approximation for sex, like porn, is much less costly and
easily available.

~~~
mamon
>> "videos of the the most physically attractive women imaginable"

Is it just me, or are most of the porn stars really just little above average,
when it comes to looks? Like 7/10? The women that I would call "most
attractive women imaginable" are all regular movie/pop stars, not porn stars.

~~~
coldtea
If you have seen them with proper clothing and make-up in proper movies, most
of them would not have much, if anything, to make them less attractive than
regular movie/pop stars. The packaging context and presentation matters, and
having them sing/play roles in Hollywood movies, creates all kinds of
secondary attractiveness factors related to the content and presentation (as
opposed to the merits of the person).

The opposite is also true. There are teens who believe e.g. that Jennifer
Lawrence is a crazily attractive girl, whereas one could argue there are
several just as, or even prettier, ones, in their high school. It's the added
myth, styling, and exposure that's shoved in their minds that elevates her.
(And similarly for male actors). Of course there's the occasional Errol Flynn
or Brad Pitt, or Ingrid Bergman or Margot Robbie - but most of them are
elevated ordinary people + Hollywood allure.

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indescions_2017
If you are craving a more penetrating discourse on how technology is affecting
the modern mating game. I'd give a listen to this enlightening interview noted
couples therapist Esther Perel gave on a recent episode of Fresh Air with
Terry Gross. She makes the point that due to social media, etc. there is now
what amounts to a paper trail for our assignations. And a mere "like" is
enough to constitute a form of cheating ;)

As Marriage Standards Change, A Therapist Recommends 'Rethinking Infidelity'

[https://www.npr.org/2017/12/13/570131890/as-marriage-
standar...](https://www.npr.org/2017/12/13/570131890/as-marriage-standards-
change-a-therapist-recommends-rethinking-infidelity)

While it may be impossible to empirically quantify if humans are enjoying less
intimacy than a generation ago. I do see a danger that the erotic sphere is
becoming abstracted away from its powerful roots by modern alienation. To get
that mojo back, is to return to more ritualistic practices. Perhaps inspired
by ancient rites of fertility common to all cultures. Akin to the way farm-to-
table and slow food movements can cure one of the malaise that arises from
prolonged daily exposure to Seamless dinners without any connection to Nature.

But then again, my cure for almost any modern ailment tends to be to look to
the ancients!

[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29044.The_Secret_History](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29044.The_Secret_History)

------
AmVess
I'd blame work and stress. Your average person is working longer hours for
less financial benefit, while the cost of basics (housing and health care) has
gone way up.

Longer working hours for less money makes people tired and stressed...two
instant mood killers; and a condition that is likely chronic among many.

"Netflix and chill" is the modern term for hooking up, but for many it
probably simply means what it means...to sit and relax.

I don't blame Netflix or phones or anything other than the fact that simply
getting by in the USA has become a chore for many, and Netflix and phones are
the salve, not the root cause.

~~~
daveFNbuck
From the abstract of the paper:

> The decline was not linked to longer working hours

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bostik
To sum up and to thrown an idea up in the air:

There has been a decline in sex over the past decade. It can't be purely
coincidental that while the world became witness to a depressing depression,
people are having less sex. After all, depression is often linked to reduced
libido... and if you're constantly stressed out over your (and your family's)
future, you might not have enough energy to enjoy sex either, which in turn
can form a negative feedback loop.

Welcome to the brand new (joyless) world.

~~~
ellius
I’m surprised there has been so much less response to this comment than so
many of the others. It’s very plausible that the root causes of widespread
depression and a widespread decrease in sex are related. I’m not sure you can
easily pull out any one cause, but it would be reasonable to suspect that
modern work and social habits are leading factors (possibly also diet).

------
quietbritishjim
If we're going with hunches (as in the article) free streaming porn seems more
likely than streaming conventional entertainment like Netflix. I mean, both
have taken off over the relevant period, but porn is obviously a bit more
closely tied to sex.

~~~
mistaken
I'm not so sure. I think boredom is the biggest factor, so Netflix is probably
the cause. For example the Indian government once tried offering electricity
in rural areas to lower child birth rates. "If there is electricity in every
village, then people will watch TV till late at night and then fall asleep.
They won't get a chance to produce children,"[1]

[1] [https://www.treehugger.com/culture/indian-government-
pushes-...](https://www.treehugger.com/culture/indian-government-pushes-rural-
electrification-for-population-control-television-as-contraception.html)

------
lvoudour
I don't know what's more ridiculous in this article, the "hunch", the fact
that Netflix is never mentioned by name (while Hulu is) or the apex of stupid
tech junk called "the smart condom" which auto-plays at the side...

~~~
jimmies
Netflix to movies on demand is like iPad to tablets and Xerox to photocopy
machines. Technically it is not correct, but people call stuff by the first
success to market.

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amriksohata
Porn not Netflix, why would any male want sex with the effort of chasing a
woman, romanticising, dealing with the hard-line feminists, when they can just
knock one out for free?

~~~
dragonwriter
Men have been able to knock one out for free since, at least, the evolution of
opposable thumbs (and those probably aren't strictly necessary). Porn isn't
material.

~~~
amriksohata
Not with the same stimulation and reason, that's why many Japanese men are
steering clear of marriage and children, they want to do what their minds are
programmed to do, not deal with tasks women traditionally do , and for them,
they don't need a relationship to fulfill their other needs.

------
gregshap
Original paper (abstract):
[https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-017-0953-1](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-017-0953-1)

~~~
gregshap
According to the abstract, the declines are driven by people married or living
together, and especially people in their 50s, with kids, and those who DONT
view pornography.

So according to the paper pornography is a complement to partnered sex, not a
substitute.

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bluedino
It's the phones, not Netflix. Phone use is a constant source or ire in
relationships.

------
bmitch3020
I don't think you can blame one thing.

I blame smart phones, but blame is a strong word. We no communicate with
texting, social networking, and many other means than in-person conversations.
Teenagers are electing to get a drivers license later in life because they
don't need a car to be connected to their friends. Less in-person interaction
results in less opportunity for intimate interaction.

I blame the womens movement, and that's a good thing. More women are placing
their careers first, and getting around to having a family later and later in
their lives.

I also blame the economy. The recession ended technically, meaning we stopped
getting worse. But our economy isn't seeing the wage growth that would
indicate a prosperous environment that encourages recreational activities, and
procreation.

------
ddebernardy
I'd have imagined Facebook usage, if anything. And to the degree that they
allow to use it even more, smartphones.

------
acd
I think that the researchers are on to something broader. The research shows
that smart device use lessens sex. Japan for example has early high technology
usage and high suicide rates but low birth rates. Does devices with
entertainment substitute getting together with your partner and friends?

~~~
louisswiss
Repeat after me - _correlation does not imply causation_

~~~
coldtea
It merely doesn't prove causation. But it does imply it (as in: hints there
might be one), and it's necessary for causation to exist.

Any causation mechanism will also have a correlation in its base.

~~~
louisswiss
True - in logic/philosophy, implies means _a sufficient basis for_ so it is
just a semantic problem. I wouldn't say that a result can be necessary for a
cause though, that is dangerously circular.

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extrememacaroni
With shows that good, fewer and fewer couples manage to reach the "chill" part
before falling asleep.

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DoreenMichele
I don't have a citation and I have no plans to dig one up. But everything I
have ever read indicates that poor people have less sex than rich ones because
they are just struggling to survive and can't manage to fit it into their
lives. Historically, Americans had more sex on average than people in other
countries because we had a large comfortably well off middle class.

I find it ironic that a magazine named _Fortune_ would miss the obvious angle
that this is likely related to the general financial distress in the world. It
suggests Americans are too poor for luxury items like regular sex. They are
working longer hours, exhausted and stressed out, so sex is just not
happening.

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throwawaymonkie
On Hacker News it's totally fine to blame men: "It's men that watch to much
porn".

If you on the other hand suggest that maybe #metoo, unfair divorce court etc.
has something to do with it (meaning maybe woman are also part of the issue),
you get flagged or downvoted to hell.

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gressquel
Netflix and chill

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arialeks
Honestly I would be depressed it that was the field of my research.

