
When 100 people lift a bus - graeham
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-32993891
======
antihero
I really, really can't understand the bystander effect unless there's an
immediate threat to one's personal safety (ie, breaking up a fight). Isn't the
logic behind it that someone else is going to help so why bother? But I don't
see that logic - if there's ever a problem I always run to help first, and
back off if things are under control. Back in Reading a guy got knocked off of
a bike pretty badly, my immediate, unthinking adrenaline reaction was to run
directly at the scene, stop people moving him off of the road/moving him at
all, gesture at cars to stop, call an ambulance, talk to him to stop him
trying to move, etc. Adrenaline gives you focus and the ability to deal with
the situation. It's almost like autopilot.

I just don't understand the logic of people who just walk on by.

I can't think of a single appointment that's more important than helping
someone in trouble - late for an interview or a date? Tell them that you value
human fucking life more than hitting a time.

~~~
JulianMorrison
I don't believe "someone else is going to help so why bother" is the real
reason.

My candidate: social awkwardness and feelings of inadequacy. "Is this real? If
I'm the only one making a fuss I'll look like an idiot. Oh please let someone
else take the first step so it won't be everyone looking to me for direction.
I don't know what I'm doing. Help, how do I CPR?" Often combined with a fear
for personal safety. "Will the car explode? Will the bus fall on me? Is the
drunk guy going to stab me if I touch him? Or infectious? Or about to vomit
when I do rescue breaths? Will I go to jail if I get it wrong and he dies?
Isn't it better to not involve myself?"

~~~
Vexs
I seem to recall that last bit being a reason in china, some guy took legal
action against someone who gave him cpr and broke his ribs and won.

~~~
ZeroGravitas
edited, because I'd misremembered this and having bad medical knowledge
floating around is to be avoided. I originally said:

According to Breaking Bad they don't do that compression bit in CPR anymore.

But in actuality, it's the mouth to mouth bit that Breaking Bad mentioned as
not being current advice. But the link provided in a reply below, suggests
that it is still recommended in certain circumstances, infants and young
children for example.

Another in-depth treatment is here on Quora:

[http://www.quora.com/Is-CPR-no-longer-taught-as-requiring-
mo...](http://www.quora.com/Is-CPR-no-longer-taught-as-requiring-mouth-to-
mouth-resuscitation-as-was-suggested-in-Breaking-Bad)

~~~
stevewilhelm
That is wrong.

Hands-Only CPR is CPR without mouth-to-mouth breaths. It is recommended for
use by people who see a teen or adult suddenly collapse in an “out-of-
hospital” setting (such as at home, at work or in a park).

It consists of two easy steps: Call 9-1-1 (or send someone to do that). Push
hard and fast in the center of the chest. [1]

[1]
[http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/CPRAndECC/HandsOnlyCPR/LearnMo...](http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/CPRAndECC/HandsOnlyCPR/LearnMore/Learn-
More_UCM_440810_FAQ.jsp)

------
sgentle
Sorry to point this out, but the uplifting character of this story only really
applies if this action actually helped the trapped man. It might be nice to
feel like these people helped, but if the takeaway is "untrained people should
rush in and do whatever seems like a good idea in life-threatening medical
situations", I think it's selling us an attractive and dangerous lie.

There are many kinds of injuries (not just puncture or spinal injuries) that
get much worse if treated by someone with no medical experience. The article
said his leg was crushed but lifting the bus "looked like the most reasonable
action to take". One of the possible consequences of a suddenly released crush
injury is kidney failure caused by crush syndrome:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crush_syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crush_syndrome)

Like all of the people involved in this story, I'm not a medical expert, so I
don't know for sure whether these people helped or harmed the situation.
However, I think it would be responsible journalism to ask a medical doctor
whether the crowd did the right thing before hailing them as heroes and
encouraging others to do the same.

~~~
userbinator
I would be more worried about them overdoing it and flipping the bus over...

~~~
corobo
I was thinking that myself but then realised most of the 12 tonnes mentioned
is going to be towards the base (engine, etc). A double decker isn't going to
be a top heavy object else it'd tip over any time it hit a corner a bit too
fast

They'd have had to do some serious tipping to make it fall over
[https://i.imgy.org/NO2zZn26.jpg](https://i.imgy.org/NO2zZn26.jpg)

~~~
userbinator
I know they can stand some extreme tilt angle, but those tests are done with a
slow and gradual rotation instead of a quick burst of force; being heavy also
means that once it starts moving, it's harder to stop... so it's a good thing
that those involved in lifting it were not _too_ strong.

------
joshstrange
> A few others inevitably reached for their phones - although most were then
> subjected to a form of group self-policing. "A couple of people were saying
> 'Don't film it! Don't film it!'" Kyra says. "Nowadays you really think 'Oh,
> shall I video it?'," but thankfully most people felt it wasn't appropriate,
> she adds. "Anybody who did video got shouted at anyway."

I'm sorry, I fail to see what is so taboo about filming? At the very least it
documents what happened... Is the concern filming someone in pain/suffering?
We appear to have no problem with that when it's photographers in third-world
countries. Not everyone can help directly so what is the harm in some people
videoing what happened?

~~~
monk_e_boy
Being from the UK: It's a bit unseemly. Mind your own fucking business. Get
permission. Don't be a twat... etc

~~~
hammock
>Being from the UK: It's a bit unseemly. Mind your own fucking business.

Does that apply to the 5.9 million surveillance cameras located in the UK?

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/10172298/One-
surveilla...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/10172298/One-surveillance-
camera-for-every-11-people-in-Britain-says-CCTV-survey.html)

~~~
monk_e_boy
I replied to this question below. But I'd like to add that I'm not sure where
the 5.5 million comes from. Where I live I spend 99.99% of my time NOT under
CCTV surveillance. There is CCTV in town centres and in cities, but these are
very public places. There is also CCTV in shopping centres and outside some
houses, but not that much and most of it is to stop crime, not to spy.

------
yconst
So that's all great and trying to help and all, but.. a crowd that yells at
the top of their lungs to a driver till he goes in tears (in place of actually
guiding him to properly move the vehicle), and thereafter tries to lift the
bus using nothing but brute force.. isn't this like creating a problem and
then trying to solve it?

~~~
anc84
The whole article tried to elaborate on the problem of crowds, did you read it
thoroughly enough?

~~~
yconst
It does not elaborate on the "problem of crowds", at all. On the contrary, it
offers a rather positive view to the whole spontaneous reaction thing. Which
is great, don't get me wrong. However, in this case, I believe the solution
could have been much much simpler to begin with. But that's just me :)

------
city41
I've been unicycling for over 20 years and I still never unicycle in traffic.
Unicycling requires constant attention to maintain balance. Even after 20
years it doesn't quite become auto pilot like it does on a bike. On top of
that, I don't like to cause worry in drivers when they see me riding next to
them.

------
csomar
I don't help strangers in distress. I've never been in such a situation, but
if I ever was I won't. The best I'll do is to call emergency for them, or try
to make other people aware of it.

I'm concerned primarily (by order of importance):

\- My personal safety. (if it's an armed theft or fight)

\- Being accused of wrongdoing after an unfair or incomplete investigation.

\- Not having the right medical skills to help them, and instead worsen their
situation.

Unfortunately, I can't think of another way (other than calling emergency) to
help them. I'd appreciate if someone would help me in such a situation,
though. Which feels quite greedy (and I think it is).

------
paganel
Can confirm, I was involved in push-starting my (European) city's trolleybuses
at least 3 or 4 times while I was a passenger. It's a nice feeling when you
see the driver/conductor getting off and announcing that he needs help,
followed by all the men in said trolleybus also getting off and pushing it,
all this happening in the middle of the intersection. Fun :)

------
ryandrake
I'd love to know why the driver couldn't just back up?

~~~
nodata
Apparently he was not in a state to understand what was going on.

~~~
skorgu
Yeah, people do _weird_ things in unexpected high-stress situations. Not
everyone is an action hero it turns out.

------
aaron695
Simple stuff. Don't do this. Why risk a life so you can feel good in a BBC
article. The reason people don't know what to do and freeze, is because they
don't know what to do, get experts, this situation seemed stabilised.

It's luck the person in the train incident didn't loose a leg from the
rocking.

Want to actually save a life, very boring, give money to a 3rd world charity.

And the Kitty Genovese story is generally these days considered not that
simple as the common 'Just so story'

There's stories here that are important, just skip the BBC tabloid version.

