
Tesla’s P85D Will Get Even Faster Thanks to a Software Update - martin_
http://techcrunch.com/2015/01/29/teslas-p85d-will-get-even-faster-thanks-to-a-software-update/
======
IvyMike
> Imagine getting into your car and having it say “Oh! Hey. I’m faster now
> than I was yesterday. You’re welcome!” Because that’s what’s happening.

Yes, that is awesome.

But on the other hand, in the past I've had updates to my TiVo and my PS3
where I turned it on and it said "Oh! Hey. I'm shittier than I was yesterday.
Suck it."

And someday, that could happen with Teslas, too. Updates are a mixed bag.

~~~
Taek
"This car will never speed in construction zones anymore"

"This car is now property of pWnz0r. Pay 20btc to {address} to reclaim your
car"

"This car will only fill up at TSA approved electric stations"

"This car will not turn on for anyone with a recent DUI"

"This car will not turn on during the Snow Emergency"

Some of these are probably not risks given the current capabilities of
Tesla's, but future cars might have enough cameras and sensors to enforce such
updates.

~~~
demarq
Future generations will have all sorts of amazing technology and vehicles, but
their experiences and freedoms will just never match what we have today...

to them we'll be bad-asses who lived danger ever minute of every day on our
terms. The way we make movies about the future they'll make movies about our
time. And the few of us still remaining we'll make up all sorts of stories to
make it sound like everyone alive was an action star. They will be repulsed by
what they have become.

that or...

to them we'll be wreckless and inefficient neanderthals. They'll be just happy
to have their governments. Like having this monolithic antivirus installed on
society, to keep everyone 'safe'.

~~~
whoisthemachine
This could even be applied to how we currently view our more recent history of
"cowboys" and the "wild" west. Imagine the freedom those men had!

~~~
saiya-jin
same as you can have, just stand up and walk away from treadmill... oh wait,
cash, security, not dying from appendicitis and whatnot is so comfortable,
right? :)

~~~
toomuchtodo
/rant

You can walk away from the treadmill.......and still have cash, security, and
not die from a healthcare issue. Live below your means, save, invest, and then
move somewhere nice but with a lower cost of living (Costa Rica, Panama, and
Uruguay are my short list).

This will not happen if you live somewhere paying $3K/month for a studio
though ;)

~~~
Retric
... you can get off the treadmill.

Just run _faster_ that's the ticket.

You can also just get off. Lower your spending and you don't need to work a
full time job 48 weeks a year.

ex: If you want to live in a cabin in the woods, the forst service pays some
people to watch for fires in some really remote areas.

------
aunty_helen
There's nothing stopping ICE car manufacturers from doing the same thing. ICEs
are run by computers with lookup tables for fuel and ignition timings(etc.)
which are often less than optimal and could be revised for both performance
and reliability after a model has been in use by the general public. This is
just Tesla being their usual disruptive self. Patiently waiting for a Tesla I
can afford.

~~~
Arcanum-XIII
Traditional vendors are not willing to give the general public those kind of
improvements not because they can't, but because they feel it will hurt their
bottom line by not being able to sell more new car. Customer are left on their
own - and so they resort to patch their car with parts that drop their
warranty - sometimes for good reason, sometimes not. For example some vendors
are famous for selling the same engine at different price point, throttling
the low end - a bit like what's done on some CPU/GPU in the computer world !

~~~
zone411
Actually, some other manufacturers do provide such free improvements, though
they would require a visit to the dealership. McLaren provided performance
improvements for the 12C, even after the model got discontinued.

~~~
saiya-jin
good example, but McLaren is far from your usual car manufacturer. In
purchasing price you pay also for these services...

------
adrianN
I wonder how the security on these over-the-air updates is. I'm a little
scared of the idea that someone who's not even touching my car might be able
to replace the piece of code that connect the brake pedal to the actual
brakes.

~~~
alexandros
While I have no knowledge of how Tesla does their OTA, my startup makes
software for over-the-air updating, so I can make a few general comments on
this.

It may help if you think of your car as just another server. Any connection
between the server and client can be encrypted of course, using well-known
tools. Besides that, the car can be made to not accept updates that are not
signed by the manufacturer, so your only exposure is to the manufacturer.

Of course someone may have physical access to your car and be able to write
new software locally, but then they may also be able to do mechanical
sabotage, so it's not a new risk.

So you basically have to trade off one kind of security (the manufacturer can
update my car remotely) with another (security bug announced in the software
my car runs, I am now a sitting duck).

It definitely takes a shift in perspective, but in the brave new world where
cars (and other things) run millions of lines of code, over-the-air updates
are a necessity. (but of course I'd say that).

I've written a bit more about this conundrum here -
[https://resin.io/blog/you-cant-secure-what-you-cannot-
update...](https://resin.io/blog/you-cant-secure-what-you-cannot-update/)

~~~
diminoten
Exactly. If you can't update the car's software, then you can't patch
bugs/vulnerabilities.

------
andrewtbham
elon recently tweeted a video of people experiencing P85D "Insane Mode"
acceleration for the first time

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qFV5i8tBhs&app=desktop](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qFV5i8tBhs&app=desktop)

~~~
davidy123
This strikes me as quite a dangerous feature. Cars accelerating slowly is a
great safety feature. Maybe they could relabel this feature the "Suge Knight"
feature since it will make parking lots and other areas of surging cars a
whole new theatre.

~~~
userbinator
It's around as dangerous as any other performance car with an extremely
powerful engine. You can still drive slowly; the difference is in what happens
when you floor the pedal.

------
trvz
> Imagine getting into your car and having it say “Oh! Hey. I’m faster now
> than I was yesterday. You’re welcome!” Because that’s what’s happening.

Imagine having such a software-powered car and being unable to get into it
because it was stolen:
[https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%...](https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fauto%2Faktuell%2Fadac-
entdeckt-it-sicherheitsluecke-bei-bmw-connected-drive-a-1015819.html)

Imagine some company without Google's software engineering expertise building
a self driving car, allowing hackers to take it over and create mayhem.

~~~
lazyjones
> _Imagine having such a software-powered car and being unable to get into it
> because it was stolen:_

That's OK because the mobile access provider will know where it is - he always
does, wherever you go...

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mattlutze
The notable thing here is that the updates are done "magically", as in, in the
background over WiFi.

Software mappings for engine performance are often modified by hobbyists,
performance tuners, etc., it just normally takes plugging in a tool or
swapping a control chip.

~~~
Shivetya
The only question I have is.

Can I block Tesla from delivering updates.

~~~
NickM
I don't believe any of the Model S updates have ever been automatically
applied. It will automatically tell you "hey, an update is available" but
won't install it until you give the go-ahead.

~~~
giarc
But can you skip that update but install the next? Say update 2.1 is a speed
increase and user doesn't want that. Update 2.2 is a safety feature that the
user wants, would 2.2 include 2.1?

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sschueller
Does something like this require DOT approval?

In the case of the Tesla there is no emissions change but are there safety
changes that need to be retested?

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shenoyroopesh
Wow. This is just insane.

I was a bit confused initially as to how a mechanical problem can be solved by
a software update, but then someone explained in one of the comments that it's
about fuel-injection tables and stuff.

Incredible, but just a bit scary too.

I really hope they test that software to the hilt - I mean like NASA style,
slow but steady kind of stuff. I wouldn't want to go 1 feet near the car if
the quality is in the same quality vicinity as 99% other software (and that
includes software that we generally consider "good quality").

Anyone knows what their software development process is to get that kind of
confidence?

~~~
msl
There is a write up about the development of the STS-software[1]. If memory
serves, the key is specifying everything extremely rigorously. It seems to me
though, that writing such specification (if sensor A detects such-and-such
value and sensor B...) would share most of the problems writing actual
software does.

Another look at how to get "NASA like" confidence is provided by Richard
Feynman[2] and Diane Vaughan[3].

[1] [http://www.fastcompany.com/28121/they-write-right-
stuff](http://www.fastcompany.com/28121/they-write-right-stuff) [2]
[http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/missions/51-l/docs/roger...](http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/missions/51-l/docs/rogers-
commission/Appendix-F.txt) [3] [http://www.amazon.com/The-Challenger-Launch-
Decision-Technol...](http://www.amazon.com/The-Challenger-Launch-Decision-
Technology/dp/0226851761)

------
phkahler
As a motor control guy I'd really like to have a look inside Teslas control
algorithm. Most people - even experts - leave something on the table. This
improvement is no surprise to me.

~~~
drzaiusapelord
I wonder if they typically launch with very conservative defaults and over
time can learn more about the system and what tweaks can be done without
causing too many issues. In ICE there's this whole "chip tuning" culture that
does this as well. With a trivial updating process and all the data each Tesla
sends, it seems like "chip tuning" is built into the Tesla culture as well.

~~~
phkahler
>> I wonder if they typically launch with very conservative defaults and over
time can learn more about the system and what tweaks can be done without
causing too many issues.

Good point. Slamming full torque as fast as possible on a Tesla might
physically break things and should only be pushed out as an update after
appropriate testing. I'm assuming they were not even getting the highest
possible torque out of it though. Electric motors are a fairly interesting
problem and most of the work goes into dealing with limiting cases. Most of
the literature doesn't even deal with some of the fundamental problems and
most people just avoid them by leaving a little performance on the table.

------
demarq
Insane mode is great but an extra gear or something would would also be nice
for even more performance.

[http://youtu.be/r4CnSS4OG4A](http://youtu.be/r4CnSS4OG4A)

~~~
tyho
An extra gear would not give more performance, the reason cars with internal
combustion engines have gears is because they do not produce their full power
at low engine speeds, whereas electric motors do, hence why the Tesla does not
have nor would benefit from a gearbox.

You can see why a gearbox is a disadvantage in this video here:

[http://youtu.be/0e-jquwHKtI?t=30s](http://youtu.be/0e-jquwHKtI?t=30s)

During the first 2 gear changes you can see the lambo fall behind during gear
changes.

~~~
semi-extrinsic
s/power/torque/

And saying a Tesla would have no benefit of a gearbox is a bit strong. There
are reasons to believe [1] it would increase efficiency at the cost of more
complexity.

[1] [http://www.gizmag.com/new-multi-speed-electric-vehicle-
trans...](http://www.gizmag.com/new-multi-speed-electric-vehicle-transmission-
improves-ev-performance-and-range/11670/)

~~~
tyho
I was speaking a bit imprecisely. An electric motors power-speed curve is not
totally flat, just much more so than normal engines.

