
Ask HN: How would you invest in yourself with $10,000 - randomCoder
I'm a 35 year old programmer. My background is Wall Street and Google. I'm quitting my job in a few months and taking some time off. I have enough money saved up to not have to work for 8 months to a year. More if i do consulting work part-time. I don't really want to travel fulltime - did a lot of that last year for work. Other than that, i don't have any family constraints so i'm not tied to a particular location.<p>I've decided to set aside a max of $10,000 during this time for personal improvement. My primary background is in distributed systems but I've taught myself large bits of machine learning (at the level of Andrew Ng's classes on youtube - not the coursera stuff) as well. Initially I was thinking of getting my second master's - this time in machine learning but those are more like 30-50,000 and a 1-2 year commitment. I'm learning things like Android/IOS programming right now but those kinds of subjects i tend to pick up quite quickly from the internet and books so i'm not sure if I would pay for classes on those subjects.<p>I was also thinking of stuff that's not related to computers like taking part of an mba curriculum or taking lessons in public speaking, negotiation, marketing etc. As a 35 year old coder, i'm also thinking about what's next in my career - i like hacking a lot, but I don't know if I should be investing in more management skills/credentials since i'm not sure i'll be able to get a engineering job at 50 (evidence showing otherwise for 50 year olds on HN notwithstanding).<p>So, I thought i would ask the HN community for ideas - how would you improve yourself with 10,000$ (or less :))and 8 months ?
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tptacek
The programmer -> MBA track is a popular one, and unless you want to make a
move into finance, I have not heard a lot of compelling good things about it.
The best thing people usually have to say about it is that it's a networking
opportunity.

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geichel
Do exactly what I tell my teens to do. Figure out what you want to do. Go hang
out with those who already do it. Its not about spending money or age; it is
about being useful to those who need passionate people in their field. Time is
your greatest asset in this regard. Be known, be available, and good things
will happen.

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JHof
I would attend the programming boot camp to which I was accepted but will not
be able to afford.

In your case, it sounds like you spend much of your time and energy achieving.
Instead of using the break to steady yourself for the next leap, why not take
time to wander a little? Go experience unique people and places. Set out to
change your perspective. Play. It could help you discover what you want or
what's next in your career, giving you something to work toward, rather than
blindly collecting 'skills' and 'credentials' that may or may not be what you
need to take the next step.

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areeve
Which bootcamp? What would you learn at a bootcamp that you couldn't for free
on your own volition?

Not criticising, genuinely curious as I've considered attending one myself.

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argonaut
Speaking as someone who used to work at a company that several bootcamps had
pitched for recruitment purposes, and having met several grads from bootcamps,
I would say that these bootcamps are most certainly not for you. They are
almost all universally geared towards beginners. In that sense these bootcamps
do add a lot of value. It is really hard to teach yourself to code if you lack
any foundation in coding, let alone teaching yourself X or Y technologies.

There is really nothing these bootcamps can offer you except for a boost in
your motivation (such a boost is not worth $12-17k+). To give you a sense of
what I mean, Dev Bootcmap, for example, spends half of its time on teaching
their students Ruby and programming fundamentals, which makes sense if you've
never/barely coded before, but does not make sense for someone with experience
who can teach him/herself Ruby and most of its advanced concepts over a
(focused) weekend. Even Hack Reactor, which bills itself as being more
intensive and faster-paced, spends a lot of time on basic language/CS
fundamentals.

These programs don't really improve your job prospects beyond the improvements
that are due to a beginner learning new concepts, nor do they really provide
any sort of networking opportunities beyond the kind of networking you can
achieve by hanging out at engineering meetups once a week - the average wage
at these programs is almost universally in the $85k area, which sounds like a
lot but is essentially entry level for the SF area.

The same applies to most online course material out there, which is geared
towards beginners.

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jayrobin
You sound like you have a fair amount of knowledge on the subject so I'd be
massively appreciative if you could give me any advice...

I'm planning to move from the UK to the States next year (American wife, so
hopefully shouldn't be too much hassle) and combine it with a career change
from project manager (please don't hate me!) to developer. I have a CS degree
and similar Masters, but coding has been primarily a hobby since I graduated
(i.e. I can make pretty much what I can think of given enough time, but I'm
shaky on the core concepts: big-oh, data structures, design patterns and
algorithms).

My plan was basically to (re)learn as much as I can between now and early-mid
next year (focusing on RoR) and build up my GH portfolio, then jump into Dev
Bootcamp to fill in the gaps and get some introductions hopefully leading into
a job. However, after reading your comment it makes me wonder if it'd be $12k
wasted?

Any advice or input would be worth at least a pint!

~~~
argonaut
Without knowing the extent of your coding experience and the extent to which
your CS degree taught you the fundamentals, it's difficult to tell.

Some thoughts:

1\. Dev Bootcamp in specific seems to be geared to beginners. Which is great
for a beginner but not so great for someone with even some experience.

2\. I've sat in on some of these programs, and even in programs that bill
themselves as faster-paced the majority of students will be beginners. Which
means that to a certain extent many things will have to be geared towards the
lowest common denominator and a lot of time will be spent going over things
that you already grasp well, while comparatively less time will be spent going
over more complex topics.

3\. The programs do help with introductions and they do a lot of heavy legwork
in reaching out to employers. However, at the same time, the process of
getting a job is, as I imagine (I have no personal experience with getting a
job through this process), very much like a career fair type affair. I doubt
the introductions will be the kind of quality/personal introductions that
provide an advantage in applying. The introductions alone are nearly certainly
not worth $12k+.

4\. I think that as long as you have a marketable core skill (iOS, Android,
Rails, Django, frontend JS, backend JS, etc), you should be able to attain the
same job connections by attending engineering meetups and events in SF.

~~~
jayrobin
Many thanks for the input, mate - I very much appreciate it. It's extremely
helpful getting a more objective viewpoint on bootcamps, since the majority of
information out there is from alumni and will always be positive.

My degree was faiyly comprehensive, it's just that since I graduated I have
become pretty rusty on the fundamentals, but I guess that's something that
should come back to me with a bit of revision.

I guess my main worry was the difficulty of finding a job in a new country
with no prior connections and no real professional experience, but I guess
I've got around a year to make myself marketable and attempt to build up a few
connections from across the pond (maybe I can find a few Rails OS projects
willing to take on an eager learner).

Thanks again!

~~~
argonaut
Yes. And maybe even consider saving some money and then coming over to Silicon
Valley for a period of time in order to network and get job introductions by
attending meetups and such. SF is the place to be for networking (at least for
small-medium-large sized startups), but it is VERY expensive. The networking
opportunities in Palo Alto/Mountain View are comparatively fewer. If you do
make the decision to move over to SV, be sure to post an Ask HN about
recommendations as to where the best and most affordable places to live in SV
are.

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dreadsword
What are your goals? For the next year? Five years? 20? Retire at 40? Start
your own business? Start a family? Get in shape? Become a professor? Your
goals will help to shape you self-investments. If you don't have goals,
perhaps take some time think some through. Without a goal framework,
determining the ROI of your alternatives will be difficult.

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zalzane
If I was you, I would probably pick up some hardware and do EE projects. I
absolutely love electronics and hardware, but can't afford to buy any of the
equipment involved so I saturate my free time with programming. College is
like a horrible curse for EE fans, all this free time but don't have any money
to afford the equipment required to fill up that free time with interesting
projects.

There's loads of exciting stuff you can do with hardware. Some projects I
really want to tackle include stuff like fancy led-embedded business cards,
disposable USB sticks, and an autonomous drone that can deliver take-out.
There's sooooo much cool stuff you can do, but the equipment required is
pretty expensive, and mistakes can be costly.

If you want ideas, hackaday is loaded with them. <http://hackaday.com/>

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pasbesoin
Depending upon your present condition, spend some of that time (and it
shouldn't require too much of the money) on your physical health.

Not only will it improve your current cognitive function, it will enhance the
likelihood of additional months and years of (higher) productivity and
satisfaction on the tail end you your youth as well as your life.

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raintrees
My wife and I hired an investment coach for less than $5000. Now we have our
first investment property (cash flows around $10K annual) and a plan for early
retirement.

Knowledge is valuable, knowledge that helps me create free time is even more
valuable to me...

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cdvonstinkpot
I'd buy server hardware on eBay, rent some colo space to host them in, install
OpenStack on them & rent VPS' to clients who need cloud services.

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toutouastro
I would take some courses on online marketing : how to increase conversion
rate , landing pages , email marketing ...

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jboggan
Do you want to make yourself more valuable to future employers or do you want
to build something for yourself?

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meerita
I would travel, period.

