
Google internet balloon spinoff Loon still looking for its wings - doener
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-alphabet-loon-focus/google-internet-balloon-spinoff-loon-still-looking-for-its-wings-idUSKCN1TW1GN
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Animats
They've been at this for 8 years and it doesn't work yet? Uh oh. That's at the
outer edge of Google/Alphabet patience.

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what_ever
> Its tennis-court-sized helium balloons have demonstrated utility. Over the
> last three years, Loon successfully let wireless carriers in Peru and Puerto
> Rico use balloons for free to supplant cell phone towers downed by natural
> disasters.

Disc: Googler.

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dymk
> But executives at five other wireless carriers courted by Loon across four
> continents told Reuters that Loon is not a fit currently, and may never be.

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hnzix
They've been tested in Oz to gather nav data[0]. It would also make sense to
consider them for outback connectivity, where I've heard many people are still
using satellite uplink (thanks to the corrupt nerfing of the NBN).

[0] [https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-03/balloons-floating-
ove...](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-03/balloons-floating-over-
australia-part-of-radical-internet-plan/8584738)

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donalhunt
As usual, Alphabet's success is in the algorithms and software space. The
experience of building and operating Loon gives a distinct competitive
advantage that they can help others with. That's why the deal between Telesat
and Loon is not surprising in the least (they are using the knowledge from
Loon to aid Telesat's LEO venture).

[https://www.telesat.com/news-events/telesat-partners-
alphabe...](https://www.telesat.com/news-events/telesat-partners-alphabets-
loon-design-network-operating-system-telesats-global-leo)

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ravenstine
I hate to be that guy, but won't this contribute to the depletion of our
helium reserves? What would be so bad about hydrogen in relatively small
balloons? It's not like they'd all be little Hindenbergs, right?

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grenoire
Not sure, I just imagine people attempting to shoot them down for absolutely
no good reason. You would at least want to make them not blow up (especially
aviation organisations).

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nradov
The balloons will fly higher than anyone with civilian weapons can hit. And
shooting a hole in a hydrogen balloon wouldn't cause it to blow up anyway. The
gas would just leak out.

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casefields
Can't someone just launch A cube sat with an incendiary attached? Don't know
how they would hit it, but theoretically wouldn't that get you within reach
with a weapon that mortals can afford?

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IAmEveryone
Someone could shoot their neighbor, set fire to every kindergarten, or make a
sequel to Titanic. But, luckily, people tend to use their energy and
creativity for better endeavors.

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tjpnz
How would this be relevant with Starlink et el just over the horizon?

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the_duke
Balloons have the potential to much cheaper than shooting a armada of
satellites into space.

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Ajedi32
An armada of satellites can provide coverage over the entire planet, whereas
balloons are limited to a relatively small geographical area. If you consider
the cost of covering the entire planet with balloons, I highly doubt Loon is
cheaper.

If there's any advantage to be had by Loon, it's that they _might_ be able to
better serve densely populated areas better thanks to their denser cell
coverage, and that they are able to provide service over regular 4G signals
rather than requiring specially designed (and slightly bulkier) radio
equipment.

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quasse
For anyone who is wondering, I looked up the operational height for both
systems to compare. Project Loon is about 18km-25km, while Starlink is
currently deploying at 550km high.

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BurningFrog
Last I heard, the Loon balloons were just floating in the wind, across the
planet.

Do they now have a way to keep them over Puerto Rico? If so, how?

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wishinghand
I remember something about them using weather predictions, machine learning,
and ballast to rise up to an air current that would blow them one way, then
lower to a different current to blow it back to roughly the same spot.

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jpm_sd
Apparently this technique really works. From a blog post this morning:

[https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6551805...](https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6551805844525326336)

Meet flight system P-496, which Loon’s operations team brought to a controlled
landing this Sunday in the Ica region of Peru, where it was collected for
analysis. This balloon was launched from Puerto Rico way back on November 18,
2018 and spent 223 days in the stratosphere, breaking our previous flight
record of 198 days. P-496 traveled over 180,000 kilometers, circled the globe
once, and spent nearly 140 days of its mission testing navigational algorithms
over a defined area off the coast of South America. This successful flight and
landing is important for a number of reasons. Steadily increasing balloon
duration means each flight vehicle can work longer, bringing more efficiency
to our overall operations. Continuing to improve our ability to remain above
one location for extended periods of time is key to providing consistent
coverage to those below. Landing and recovering our balloons safely is part of
our commitment to sustainability in our operations. And analyzing this and
other balloons will help us understand the properties that increase balloon
longevity, with an eye toward future flights that last even longer. The team
is already working to break the 223 day record.

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RocketSyntax
This is what capitalism and the free market is all about! Adapting standard
products to meet the needs of fringe customers by fundamentally changing the
supply chain.

Without this crazy entrepreneurial spirit, the government has historically had
to step in and subsidize utilities to close the gap (e.g. electricity in rural
Texas).

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dr_dshiv
Here's a vision: growing hydrogen balloons at scale in the ocean.

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dr_dshiv
Oh fine, I'll explain. The balloons are used as an offshore solar field that
can gather energy even when cloudy.

These thin film solar balloons avoid the corrosion of the ocean because they
are floating above the clouds, anchored to a ship below. A portion of the
solar is used to generate more hydrogen.

