

introduction to "dark patterns" in design - its_so_on
http://wiki.darkpatterns.org/Home
Introduction to the idea of dark patterns in design.
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cousin_it
Question to libertarian-minded HNers: what are the downsides of banning such
practices by law?

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rquantz
Try banning practices like this and you'll end up with over-general
regulations that ban a lot of things that should be legal. When the government
find itself with overly broad statutes, it frequently ends up applying them
selectively, based on whatever criteria it chooses. This often ends up being
based on things like race, or whether you're engaging in speech the government
doesn't like, or whether you're engaged in activities that a politician's
donors don't like (something a lot of startups like to do).

Even if you can define the problem precisely so it is not too broad, in order
to prevent arbitrary enforcement you would have to place a huge regulatory
burden on either a government agency or website owners (or both). Every
website that sells anything would have to register with the government(s) of
whatever jurisdictions apply, and file reports showing that they are meeting
the requirements. Then you run into problems regarding who is responsible for
user generated content -- it goes on and on.

For some particularly egregious types of fraud, these downsides can be worth
it, but you have to be careful what you choose to regulate.

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lunarscape
>Every website that sells anything would have to register with the
government(s) of whatever jurisdictions apply, and file reports showing that
they are meeting the requirements

I think the scenario you paint is completely unrealistic. Most consumer
protection laws are not enforced like this. It's not FCC or CE marking we're
talking about. Usually it's a case that when consumers complain (e.g. product
not as described) the seller is investigated and, if found guilty, fined or
punished as per the law.

The rest of your argument, which I realise is for arguments sake, reads like a
slippery slope argument because you provide no real examples.

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dexen
_> Most consumer protection laws are not enforced like this._

It's not about actual enforcement, it's about perceived risks.

Take for example recent legislation regarding HTTP cookies in EU -- it has
stirred up quite a bit of FUD, slowing down use of this handy utility for
decent purposes. Not because of some widespread persecution, but exactly
because Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt on behalf of the good-willed netizens.

Meanwhile, the proverbial Bad Guys do not care anyway.

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mikek
Even using Appirater will skew your results quite a bit. You can set it up to
only ask people to review your app after using it for a certain amount of
time, meaning that all the users who stopped using it won't be prompted for a
rating.

The only way to fix this problem is to disallow apps from linking to app store
reviews at all.

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smashing
I didn't see Appirater in the link nor did a search on website reveal
anything. I am concerned that my users may feel requesting a review in the App
Store after 10 uses and/or 10 days to be unethical, but I cannot figure out
what reasons they may have for doing so. Do you have any reasons this may be
unethical?

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cocoflunchy
Fun fact: on the Oxfam slide where he talks about opt-out monthly donation,
the ad reads :

Be there and change lives with a with a regular donation

(<http://i.imgur.com/ZGoqw.png>)

I wonder if that is done on purpose or not...

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lloeki
Hmm. They list Microsoft's XBox Live in "Forced Continuity". It's been quite
some time (at least six months, maybe even more) that:

\- you can disable automatic renewal from the console or the browser

\- MS sends you an email upon subscription informing you that you can disable
automatic renewal from the console or the browser

\- MS sends you a reminder some time before automatic renewal in which they
again inform you how to disable automatic renewal

The last time I had to call support to leave Gold was like three years ago.

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NoPiece
Where do you live? In April of this year, I had to change my state to Illinois
in order to enable the link to cancel via the browser. Illinois requires
companies to provide a cancel link, so MS does. But they didn't offer it where
they didn't have to.

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jamiepenney
I'm guessing New Zealand must be in the same position - I've seen plenty of
screenshots showing me where the unsub link is, but it is just plain text for
me. I had to call MS and cancel over the phone, which took a lot longer than
it really should.

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acoyfellow
This is extremely old, no wonder the information is dated. I used this as a
source for a presentation in high-school.. I'm 25.

Edit: But, the information is extremely relevant still, in regards to UX and
design (imo)

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harrybr
The first version of this site was published in October 2010.

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f137
site's dead?

