
The Insanity Virus (2010) - Mz
http://discovermagazine.com/2010/jun/03-the-insanity-virus
======
FD3SA
This is absolutely fascinating. I want to stop everything I'm doing and
contribute to science.

I've had this impulse my entire life, yet the economics of doing a PhD are so
dystopian that the urge passes after a few minutes of rational thinking. So,
what is HN's answer to the decline of institutional science? Projects like
this will take decades, so crowdfunding is out.

A dozen Janelia Farms with long term funding from VCs would be great right
about now.

~~~
tim333
>what is HN's answer to the decline of institutional science?

I'm not sure institutional science has declined - if anything things have gone
the other way where it's hard to do science outside of an institution. Not
entirely sure what the answer is. In hot areas companies will sometimes hire
people to do interesting work without a PhD and even sponsor commercial work
for a PhD. When I was graduating long ago, material science was hot and all
the material science undergrads were offered well paid research jobs in
industry providing they passed and stuff. Supply and demand I guess.

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sillysaurus3
What was incredible, for me, was to realize and to accept that stress can
trigger Schizophrenia. It sounds completely impossible when you first hear it.
But if you look at the data, there is a very clear correlation between
environmental stress factors and Schizophrenia. Until we discover a better
explanation, we should accept that it's possible for stress to trigger
Schizophrenia.

And that is so incredibly strange to me. How can nothing more than _feeling
bad_ for a long period of time eventually result in insanity? What have
feelings got to do with physical, measurable deterioration in the brain? And
yet it appears true.

~~~
HillRat
To a certain degree, mind-body duality has persisted even in the absence of a
belief in a "soul" \-- it's just that we think of "body" and "brain" as
separate entities, as if the brain is just piloting a meat-vessel around.

The key thing here is that _feeling bad_ is completely inseparable from the
physiological mechanisms that underlie it. At a very high, very superficial
level, the stress mechanism is something like this:

The amygdala, which is responsible for integrating sensory perception with
memory and emotional processing, determines when a situation is "stressful."
The amygdala then signals the hypothalamus via the amygdalofugal pathway and
stria terminalis. The hypothalamus secretes a number of hormones which
basically prepare the body for fight-or-flight behavior. Of particular
interest is corticotropin-releasing hormone (CRH) which, along with
vasopressin, activates the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal, or HPA, axis -- the
physiological mechanism of fight-or-flight.

CRH is responsible for stimulating the pituitary to release cortisol, which is
an absolute sledgehammer of a hormone: it stimulates glucose synthesis (NEED
MOAR ENERGY NAO!), regulates the sodium-potassium balance in an effort to
stave off hyperkalemia (probably an adaptation to deal with tissue damage),
reduces inflammation (through immunosuppression), constricts blood vessels,
suppresses the parasympathetic nervous system (shutting down digestion -- not
important when you're trying to avoid _being_ eaten), and so on. These
activities are the result of cortisol binding to glucocorticoid and
mineralocorticoid receptors; such receptors are found in all kinds of tissues.

Cortisol also overwhelms the cortisol receptors of the hippocampus, which
processes memory. The hippocampus appears to be part of the downregulatory
subsystem of HPA axis homeostasis, but if its receptors are flooded, it
becomes ineffective at suppressing HPA axis activities. This results in both
the impairment of the memory-processing functions of the hippocampus, and a
reduction in the negative-feedback mechanism of the HPA axis. In other words,
you can't stop stressing, your comprehension is impaired, and your body is
going into overdrive.

HPA axis stimulation is useful when stress is a rare event tied to things with
sharp teeth; it's counterproductive when applied to our modern world, when
stress is more likely to come from deadlines, traffic, and trying to find that
last parking space at the mall on Black Friday.

~~~
sillysaurus3
It's hard to accept that a bad feeling is a result of a physical mechanism in
your brain. It's obviously true. It's just hard to internalize, the same way
you've internalized gravity. For example, if you accept that, then you must
also accept this: It's within the capability of science to develop an anti-
love potion. Want to fall out of love with someone? Drink the potion, or wear
the headset. Doesn't matter how much you loved them before: you won't after.

I just want to say thank you for the absolutely stellar comment. It's the best
I've read in quite awhile. Perhaps because it touches on so many mechanisms
that fascinate me.

~~~
realitygrill
_It 's within the capability of science to one day develop an anti-love
potion. Want to fall out of love with someone? Drink the potion, or wear the
headset._

Actually, I have semi-jokingly suggested that friends in unrequited love take
a certain class of antidepressant for a while, since this is one of the side
effects -- it has a pretty good chance of working. So it may be easier to
accept, although this is just n=1. (On the other hand, nobody has actually
taken this advice..)

~~~
denova
Oh god. What antidepressant?

------
tim333
I found that article interesting at the time. I don't know how research has
progressed on HERV-W and all that?

~~~
hga
Hmmm, well, per Wikipedia
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ERVWE1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ERVWE1)),
it's a virus you might say we grabbed and re-purposed. In mice, there's
"evidence for their absolute requirement for placenta development and embryo
survival." And a couple of other genes of the original virus have been zapped.
Call it a hack.

And I can't see anyone being _that_ surprised that "Mutations in the HERV-W
gene have been associated with multiple sclerosis and schizophrenia." If you
mess with essential stuff, bad things can certainly happen. Although it could
easily be somewhat more complicated, "correlation does not imply causation".

I guess I'm trying to say that where we got the genetic material from is more
in the direction of a curiosity than something profound.

~~~
frozenport
>>And I can't see anyone being that surprised that "Mutations in the HERV-W
gene have been associated with multiple sclerosis and schizophrenia." If you
mess with essential stuff, bad things can certainly happen.

This is a poor line of reasoning in biology where almost everything could be
considered essential. As we understanding, the real question is if this can be
used to find a mechanism or if elevated W type proteins can be used as an
early detection scheme.

------
zafka
This is one of those articles that confirm a gut feeling I have had for years.
I was of the opinion that wild flu viruses where responsible for some of these
diseases. It is interesting to see research close in on the mechanics. What is
the best source for current research in this area, or even better... is there
a hacker news type forum for DNA cowboys?

~~~
abandonliberty
The mechanism at play here is incredibly different from wild flu viruses. For
one, they have to be a very rare type of virus called a retrovirus[0], like
HIV, that becomes part of our genome [1].

These types of elements in our genes are very interesting. We are an organic
computer. ERVs are some of the most successful viruses from a natural
selection perspective.

I'm sorry to tell you that the evidence presented here does not support your
gut feeling.

[0]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrovirus](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrovirus)
[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endogenous_retrovirus](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endogenous_retrovirus)

~~~
zafka
Don't be sorry :) . I understand that they are talking about retroviruses, but
they suspect that the trigger is more common viruses included the toxo virus
that has been getting so many fun write ups. Obviously there is still a whole
bunch more to determine, and some of these hypothesis will be disproved, but
the general idea i fascinating.

