
Small Basic: Programming Is Fun - bensummers
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx
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bliss
Well I started with Sinclair Basic, I know plenty of others that started with
some flavour of MS Basic on various 8bit micros. This seems like a sensible
step from Microsoft to go back to their roots somewhat with this. imo Apple
really needs something like this for their ipad

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Kilimanjaro
From the getting started guide:

    
    
        Here is the first program we wrote:
        TextWindow.WriteLine("Hello World")
    
        It literally translates in the computer’s mind to:
        Write Hello World
    

Hmm, so why not use 'Write Hello World' instead? Why make things complicated?

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csomar
MSFT tries to introduce kids to programming, not any programming, but Dot Net
programming.

TextWindow.WriteLine("Hello World")

Obj.method(arg) is the Dot Net model.

Write Hello World is easier, but is not the Dot Net model.

Learning the first, you'll be more inclined to continue in the Microsoft track
;)

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nopassrecover
MSFT tries to introduce kids to _imperative_ programming because this is what
99% of programmers use. The "MSFT .NET model" also includes F# (printfn "Hello
World!") as well as implementations of every language known to man (Ada,
Python, Ruby, Lisp, Pascal and dozens of unique languages).

~~~
tel
I think part of the op's argument was to consider what the best way to learn
programming is. Imperative/OO programming is important to learn someday, but
it's not necessarily the easiest or best one to start on.

So Microsoft's motivations might not be clearly aligned with learning. Should
or shouldn't they be?

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nopassrecover
Perhaps I was misguided by the insinuation that Microsoft is behind some
imperative language conspiracy. In any case, 99% of the code that runs this
world was written in an imperative language and most universities (I believe
MIT is an exception with Scheme?) will teach an imperative language before any
other. It may not be the easiest (I'm biased, my mind mapped instantly) or
best to start with, but it certainly _is_ the one most commonly started with
and most commonly used.

I'm pretty sure Microsoft's motivations are simply to make the best
development environment they can because at the end of the day that's what
developers will use meaning more server licence purchases. This is evidenced
by the relative freedom their dev techs get and by the insane amount of
programming genius they have hired in this area.

~~~
tel
I think you nailed it: _I'm pretty sure Microsoft's motivations are simply to
make the best development environment they can._

But children aren't developers (yet) and learning to program isn't necessarily
easiest or best using imperative languages. It's not judgment, it's a
difference of goals.

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chaosmachine
Microsoft claims to respect intellectual property, but they're blatantly
infringing on the Tetris trademark in their game example.

Certainly they'd send a cease and desist if someone made a "Linux Halo" so why
do they think it's ok to make a "Small Basic Tetris"?

The company that owns Tetris hasn't exactly been shy about enforcing their
rights, either: <http://mashable.com/2008/08/26/iphone-tris-app/>

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algolicious
Don't be so sure that they don't have permission. Microsoft has implemented
Tetris before:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Entertainment_Pack>

~~~
chaosmachine
That was released 20 years ago (1990), the licensing situation for Tetris has
changed a lot since then. There's actually a specific set of guidelines The
Tetris Company enforces for a game to carry the Tetris name. They dictate
everything from the piece colors to the playfield size:

<http://tetris.wikia.com/wiki/Tetris_Guideline>

Aside from that, if they were using it under license, there would be a
licensing blurb, similar to what you see in the footer of tetris.com.

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timinman
'Someone needs to make a Small Ruby.' Thats exactly what _why was doing with
Hackety Hack and Shoes - in fact, I have no doubt that they got their
inspiration from _why. I believe the .net guys helped sponsor the art and code
event why spoke at just before his departure from the internet.

In fact... _why, is that you?! No, probably not - there are no cartoon foxes
or bunnies.

Here's the current shoes: <http://github.com/ashbb/shoes>

And Hackety Hack: <http://github.com/steveklabnik/hacketyhack/>

And, for good measure, the cartoon foxes:
<http://mislav.uniqpath.com/poignant-guide/>

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33
I challenge anyone reading this to explain the pedagogical advantage for
children this or any other BASIC has over Squeak Smalltalk and eToys.

~~~
halo
Two half-decent reasons come to mind.

One is teacher familiarity. Many people have used a variant of BASIC before,
whether in 80s home computers, via Qbasic or VB on PCs in the 90s, or via
VBScript in Office. This may make potential teachers less intimidated, more
confident, and more willing to teach it to kids.

Secondly, I can imagine that some schools use VB.NET for later courses, and
this could provide a simple introduction to move towards using the full-blown
VB.NET, and being able to easily transfer what they already know.

That said, I don't really see _why_ it needs to have a pedagogical advantage.
My initial feeling was that it was just someone looking to scratch an itch for
nostalgia's sake, missing the days when every computer came with a BASIC, and
a quick look through the blog pretty much confirms that
([http://blogs.msdn.com/smallbasic/archive/2008/10/23/hello-
wo...](http://blogs.msdn.com/smallbasic/archive/2008/10/23/hello-world.aspx)).

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sukuriant
Does anyone else notice that they seem to be using a variant of Logo for this
project? Complete with calling the things on the screen 'turtles'? I Logo does
take out a ton of the work for programmers who just want to get something on
the screen as fast as possible.

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krainboltgreene
Someone needs to make a Small Ruby.

(Also, who the hell gives a teenager a touch tablet! I want those parents :( )

~~~
darshan
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hackety_Hack>

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rbanffy
Because BASIC should be enough for anyone.

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reader5000
Does anybody else find all microsoft.com domains inaccessible using chrome, or
is it just me?

~~~
clusterfu_k
just you.

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NIL8
Cool Stuff. Wonder what life would be like if I'd had that as a kid.

