
A No. 1 hit vanished from Poland’s charts – it’s not going quietly - adrian_mrd
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/22/arts/music/poland-chart-song-removed.html
======
nathell
Of interest to the HN populace may be how Trójka’s website started to throw
HTTP 500s shortly after the song was aired.

Here's how: [https://scontent-
waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65...](https://scontent-
waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/97996661_3002459633124668_8717350358818488320_o.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=8024bb&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=IlP0AOfzTWsAX93txwM&_nc_ht=scontent-
waw1-1.xx&_nc_tp=14&oh=6f642e1eed0f7607d5d0e3df8f689eb8&oe=5EF0166E)

~~~
plerpin
A handcoded redirect to the error 500 page. A very hacky hack, certainly not
an accident.

~~~
seba_dos1
At around the same time the chart's page has stopped functioning as well - and
the IIS error gave away that it was because of deleted first character '<' in
XML configuration file.

------
nathell
This was the weekly chart #1998. This thing has been running continuously for
38 years. It's iconic over here. The present fsckup is hilarious to the point
of being unbelievable.

I bit the bullet and temporarily tuned my radio to something unrelated.
There's a crowdfunded alternative, though, picking up steam: Nowy Świat, #1 on
patronite.pl (Polish lookalike of Patreon) with 630KPLN/mo pledged already,
due to start airing in June. Their staff is composed mostly of Trójka's
exiles.

~~~
avn2109
FWIW I'm an American living in Poland since 2 years ago, though I'm
participating only as a spectator and I don't have a political horse in this
race. This whole saga seems like a bit of a tempest in a teapot from where I
sit.

As of a few days ago, a certain minority political faction is suddenly _very_
interested in high-sounding principles and will talk your ear off about
freedom of speech and young-threatened-Democracy with a capital-D etc.
Probably there is a lot of this downthread. Without making any claims about
this issue itself, I will observe three interesting metacharacteristics of the
situation:

0) This same suddenly-principled faction has a long record of happily
supporting soft-and-hard censorship whenever it suits their politics and
gleefully condemning other people's speech if they don't like it. A nonzero
fraction (but of course not all) of the condemnation here comes from the
literal Polish Communist Party (and their modern, slightly-rebranded allies),
aka the same people who brought us 50 years of totalitarian oppression and
censorship-enforced-by-secret-police-abductions. This strikes me as pretty
rich.

1) Most ordinary Polish people know about this topic, but many don't find it
anywhere near as scandalous as this breathless NYT article would have you
believe. As far as I can tell this is not high on the list of pressing
political issues for many regular people (despite a domestic Polish and
foreign media blitz to the contrary).

2) State media is widely regarded as a running joke, known for its comically-
hokey stories such as "Polish citizenry rejoices as Potassium exports rise
12%" (made up example but catches the tone). There are literally a small
handful of state-funded radio and TV stations and arguably a semiaffiliated
newspaper or two, in varying states of cheesiness. Meanwhile there are gallons
and gallons of antigovernment media, most of which is _overwhelmingly_ more
competent than the allegedly State-controlled media, with super-slick
hollywood production values and content which is precision-engineered to be
engaging. In light of this disparity I find claims about "all encompassing
State propaganda mind control" to be rather dubious.

~~~
loh
For my own curiosity, what are some of the Polish anti-government media
outlets?

~~~
b0rsuk
oko.press (has some english-language articles; investigative journalism),
onet.pl (tabloid) , tvn24.pl (TV station), krytykapolityczna.pl (openly
leftist so unpopular in Poland)

------
etrabroline
It always rubs me the wrong way when US media criticizes other countries as if
the same things don't happen in the US. Why was Phil Donahue fired?

[https://www.huffpost.com/entry/phil-donahue-chris-
matthews-m...](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/phil-donahue-chris-matthews-
msnbc-firing_n_2926643)

What about Peter Arnett?

[https://www.foxnews.com/story/nbc-severs-ties-with-
journalis...](https://www.foxnews.com/story/nbc-severs-ties-with-journalist-
peter-arnett)

But I guess the Americans have 'private' media where 'market forces' prevent
criticism of US government policy.

~~~
_visgean
The same thing can't really happen in US because US does not have state media.
(Apart from funding Radio free Europe which can't operate in US.)

~~~
azinman2
So what’s NPR, PBS, and VOA?

Note that Trump is actively trying to reorient VOA to be Trump-friendly right
now.

~~~
mintplant
NPR is an independent nonprofit organization. Most of its funding comes from
member station dues, as well as donations, grants, sponsorships, etc. 2% of
the parent organization's revenue comes from government grants. Member
stations also receive some government grants but most of their funding comes
from listener contributions, sponsorships, etc.

The situation with PBS is similar but a bit more complicated to tease apart.
The majority of PBS's funding comes from member station dues, but it also does
receive some tens of millions from the federally-funded Corporation for Public
Broadcasting (CPB) each year, and the CPB also supports those member PBS
stations. PBS and the CPB also work together on program acquisition and
development.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NPR](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NPR)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PBS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PBS)

------
dpc_pw
Hello fellow Poles! What's the deal with that song anyway.
[https://youtu.be/o9LzNtpjhV0](https://youtu.be/o9LzNtpjhV0) is this the song?

~~~
ecce_homo
Yes, this is that song. Everything in polish media now is political discussion
and/or fight about presidential elections (it's postponed due to covid19
crisis), and I consider this as part of this fight. Personally I think it is
nothing to lose mind about.

~~~
dpc_pw
I don't understand the references in that song, but doesn't seem like anything
unexpected from the artist. Almost all his songs are a criticism of all
political parties and governments and the social pathology. It's weird that
would go to the top - my guess would be some coordinated political astro-
turfing action.

~~~
Bishonen88
The song refers to the events of this years April 10th. Amid the corona crisis
and restrictions, the 'Powąskowskie cemetery' was closed. It seems it was
closed to the general public only, as PiS' leader, Jaroslaw K. allegedly
received a personal permit to enter it and pray.

He was therefore perhaps the only person entering the graveyard on that day.

In this context, "Your pain is greater than mine" simply refers to the common
citizen vs Jaroslaw. One can't go to see the grave's of his family/friends
etc., whilst the other can.

~~~
dpc_pw
Oh. I see. Thanks! Seems like a petty symbolic favoritism, very much like what
I would expect. Good for Kazik for pointing it out.

~~~
jacekm
There was a little bit more to it. April 10th is an anniversary of Polish
presidential plane crash that occurred 10 years ago in which many polish
statespeople have perished (including Jarosław's twin brother). Since that
crash Jarosław and his party have used this tragedy for their political gains
(mainly by creating conspiracy theories around the crash and promising to
solve them).

Jarosław's visit to the cemetery (together with members of the government) was
another publicity stunt. If they just wanted to pay the respects to the
deceased probably no one would care and they could easily get away with minor
restriction violation. Instead they made it an official visit and broadcasted
it in government-controlled TV.

~~~
tlear
[https://news.sky.com/story/smolensk-crash-explosions-on-
boar...](https://news.sky.com/story/smolensk-crash-explosions-on-board-before-
plane-hit-ground-investigator-says-11233792)

Of all the air crashes in history this got to be the most “convenient” does
not mean it was a bomb but damn you got to wonder just how many corks of
champagne got popped at Putin’s house when it happened.

~~~
p_l
At the time it was actually inconvenient, as he needed some of those people
live at a meeting a month later.

Having observed from pretty short range how the events unfolded after that,
they did jump on the insanity when polish government turned out to be weak
against it. That would be when the corks got popped, IMO.

------
abbadadda
Hello Streisand Effect!
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect)

------
Tade0
There's a small, but growing movement in Poland named "the eight star
movement"(obvious reference to the five star movement) - written like so:

    
    
      ***** ***
    

and pronounced in bleeps.

One would be forgiven for thinking that the expression "kurwa mać" both fits
the pattern and the current situation.

We'll see how this year's presidential elections, which should be held...
eventually(?) will go.

Let's hope we can bring some balance to the political scene in Poland.

~~~
WhyNott
Actually, you are wrong (or maybe you just haven't made it clear, so I'll
spell it out here). ____* __* is not intended to stand for "kurwa mać", it
stands for "jebać pis". Its a reference to a political comic strip from ages
ago; it only picked up steam recently.

------
rickdeveloper
Here's an open version: [http://archive.vn/JIE5T](http://archive.vn/JIE5T) .

------
ur-whale
The controversial song:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9LzNtpjhV0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9LzNtpjhV0)

~~~
swimfar
Here's a version with English subtitles.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGdLtVt8AUM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGdLtVt8AUM)

------
Toyentrepreneur
A similar situation is going on in the US.

Right now the most popular rapper (measured by streams)is Tekashi 6ix9ine, a
controversial artist who raised concerns recently over being cheated out of
the #1 Billboard Hot 100 spot.

It broke the record for most youtube views in a day (43.5 million) and also
fastest to reach 100 million (71 Hours).

It also hasn't received ONE radio spin, for comparison every song above it has
at least 20 million.

It also has been banned from every major Spotify playlist.

After questioning the credibility of the Hot 100 ranking methodologies
multiple top artists have come to Billboards defense (Ariana Grande, Justin
Bieber, etc.) even causing billboard itself to release a statement.

It's resulting in a Streisand effect of people wanting to see what's this
song/artist that the institutions are trying so hard to suppress from the
public.

~~~
dougmwne
Your comparison is way off base. Poland's government is actively dismantling
independent media and censoring this artist is part of that effort because
they were critical of the government. The rapper you mention is a violent
criminal and child rapist. We can choose where to draw the free speech line
and still uphold the principals of a free and open society.

~~~
fastball
> We can choose where to draw the free speech line and still uphold the
> principals of a free and open society.

You really, really can't.

~~~
gambiting
Yes, we can. For instance one of the things that are also in effect in Poland
and which I wholeheartedly agree with is that denying holocaust is an active
crime. As someone who has lost family in the concentration camps - good, the
crime was too great to be denying it.

~~~
int_19h
Did it help with keeping fascists out of power in Poland?

If not, then what was the actual purpose of the law?

~~~
gambiting
That's like asking "if there are still racists in the US, what's the point of
the constitution - after all it clearly states all men are equal!".

Yes, there are still facists in Poland - does that mean the law was pointless?
Of course not.

And of course I don't think I have to point out that you can be a fascist and
not deny holocaust, so this law wouldn't do anything in that case.

~~~
int_19h
I didn't ask if there are fascists in Poland, because that is not a problem in
and of itself. The problem is that proto-fascists are _in power_ in Poland.
And they are actively denying the involvement of many Polish nationals in
Anti-Semitic pogroms that were a part of the Holocaust.

But ignoring that, you appear to be saying that it's significantly worse to
deny the Holocaust, than to be a fascist, seeing how the law doesn't apply to
fascists who "moved on with the times"?

~~~
gambiting
No, that's not what I am saying.

------
btbuildem
Kurwa jebana ich mać, Niedźwiecki resigned??

------
wolco
The ones who stayed. Does their protests ring hollow?

------
5etho
is this a general thread about Poland now? anyone here interested in forking
hnews to polish language?

------
amelius
Paywall :(

~~~
gpm
Use ublock origin to disable js on nytimes.com

------
tener
While I believe that there was no dishonest effort to manipulate the charts it
is worth noting that the vote counts are both hidden from general population
and adjusted by hand to remove "fraudulent votes". This can easily move songs
within top 10. This lack of transparency does not help.

That being said this kind of reaction is unprecedented.

~~~
mamon
Exactly, and it was also suggested that for years the show producer would take
bribes from artists for placing them at the top of the list.

The song in question here actually ended up in the fourth place, was placed on
1st deliberately - it was kind of a political statement by the show producer.

~~~
p_l
The show producer selects what songs are available for voting.

As for the "bribery"... well, they found a no-name wedding singer of dubious
reputation claiming that. Unless one is firmy behind the party, pretty much
haven't heard anyone believing that line.

It's why they switched to classic "he was State Security informant" or "we're
removing (post-)commies" (remember, in PiS newspeak "post-communist" covers
"anyone who is against PiS" and is supposed to imply that they are actually
communist. Fuck logic.)

~~~
mamon
First of all, it's not just that he selects what songs enter the voting. He
manipulated results afterwards, with the stupid excuse of "just removing
fraudulent votes"

As for "he was State Security informant" \- that's really important factor to
consider because it tells a lot about person's character. I mean what kind of
scumbag would voluntarily provide information that might put people who did
nothing wrong, other than oposing communist government, in jail, or worse yet,
killed by "unknown perpetrators"? And for what - money, chance to advance his
career? Once an asshole, always an asshole.

~~~
p_l
1) As far as I could find, he is only _accused_ , with no actual evidence
following 2) by people for whom having not just "informants", but people
directly involved in oppression in their party means nothing.

So who is a bigger asshole? Accused without evidence, or someone for whom we
have explicit documentation of "vigorously defending government against
revolutionaries"?

