
Communicating with people on psychedelics - bemmu
http://qualiacomputing.com/2015/05/22/how-to-secretly-communicate-with-people-on-lsd/
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leemoore
I believe the main factor at play in the first pair of images, is that on LSD
and other hallucinogens as well as intensive meditation is that there are
little mind programs that run on our perception that smooth out reality for
us.

If you notice, even just sitting still we are constantly moving our head just
a little, constantly moving our eyes. Without these programs, our visual field
would seem far more jumpy and unstable. In certain states of consciousness,
these smoothing programs can become intermittent, less effective or even
completely disabled.

Also, when mind rambling, chatter and perpetual loops stop, a greater amount
detail can be seen and perceived through all senses. At higher and higher
levels of perceptual resolution with our filters disabled and the smoothing
programs down, you begin to notice that we don't perceive reality smoothly. We
perceive it in tiny little frames. If you just watch the first picture, your
mind isn't drawn to he frames. After looking for a bit at the second picture
of the pair, suddenly you can start to see the frames of perception more
clearly. It's simply a matter of learning to (or being tricked to) get past
our habitual programs and filters to tune into a more fine grained perceptual
reality happening.

These observations come from my own experience with psychedelics in my 20's
and extensive meditation practice including a number of longer meditation
retreats.

~~~
GuiA
This idea of reality being "passed through" multiple filters, and these
filters being reduced or disabled on psychedelics, is developed (somewhat
unscientifically) by Huxley in "The Doors of Perception"\- it's a fairly good
read.

If I remember correctly, the main criticism against this is that if it were
the case brain activity should be reduced, at least in some regions, when on
psychedelics. However, observing people on psychedelics with fMRIs does not
match with that.

~~~
okc
Why would it follow that less filters would infer less brain activity? - even
partially. Surley any cleansing/removing of the filters would excite all the
brain, as it reacts to new stimuli.

To quote Huxley "If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would
appear to man as it is, infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees
all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern."

~~~
dasil003
> _Surley any cleansing /removing of the filters would excite all the brain,
> as it reacts to new stimuli._

"Filter" in this case is just an analogy, and not necessarily a good one. We
don't know the nature of consciousness and how it maps to brain activity, so
it's not appropriate to assume that what is perceived as removing a "filter"
is increasing stimuli, it's just processing it differently in some way.

~~~
okc
I was replying to the someone, who it seems has misunderstood what Huxley
meant by filters - I wasn't defending or affirming them, let alone discussing
in what context they are 'appropriate'. I used the quote to give the 'filters'
being discussed a context. Are you saying Huxley really meant: If the doors of
perception were cleansed everything would not appear infinite but just
'processed differently'?

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empath75
I don't know how they'll get their message past the machine elves from
dimension 9 that also communicate with people on LSD.

~~~
notthegov
DMT is much different than LSD. I have never heard anyone talk about machine
elves and LSD.

DMT is a legitimate mystery of science and is not a drug in the traditional
sense.

~~~
cnp
I spent a good amount of time a few years ago exploring the DMT realm, and its
totally, completely and inexplicably mysterious. Either consciousness is a
non-local phenomena and when you smoke it you end up in some kind of parallel
dimension or for whatever _crazy_ reason evolution decided it was important to
incorporate these _alien beings_ into our subconscious mind. Those with a
rigid reductionist perspective would do well to explore it a bit. IMO there's
nothing more mind expanding and question inducing than DMT, and it just begs
out to science: "STUDY ME!"

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taternuts
I'm both fascinated and very scared of DMT. As I get older and my want to
experiment with unfamiliar substances wanes, I'm pretty confident that I'll
probably never try DMT, but I wish I had when I was younger and more brash.
I've had friends who have taken too much and went down the DMT-hole, and their
description of it (as best they can recollect anyways) is absolutely
terrifying. One example was a friend who felt he spent years in a completely
different world, with completely different laws of physics - he had to
literally give up his idea of how the world worked in order to embrace what he
thought at the time was his new world/being. Once he accepted it, apparently
he started to come out of it.

~~~
cnp
Yeah, I can very much sympathize with your friend. One thing I've learned is
that setting an intention is important, and not being reckless with it is
important too. There have been a few time where I've come back home after a
night out and dove right in with half drunken bravery, and yes _infinite
thought loops are a thing!_ There was one time where I quite literally thought
I had died and landed in hell and in that moment of time an indescribable
suffering was transmitted through my being via some kind of demon which left
me in tears for about a half of an hour afterwards. But lest I drive the
curious away, whenever I have gone into it with respect I've had experiences
that were deeply enlightening and, while always weird, seemingly benign.

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sqlftw
Many years ago I tried LSD, and for whatever reason, I never seemed to
experience visual hallucinations. However, in recent years, cars have started
having LED tail lights, which really bother my eyes. Several times I have
asked my friends, "Aren't those terrible!?" to which they might reply, "They
are pretty bright." Bright! They aren't just too bright, they are intensely
STROBING! Can normal people not see that? Is this the flashback I was
promised?

~~~
8d7a8
I have had rainbow halos around street and car headlights since my early
twenties. I first noticed it whilst tripping and have yet to determine whether
the cause is physical or mental. Looks pretty though.

~~~
leemoore
I've had something similar since at least my teens. At night if I look closely
at streetlights, I see what looks to me like a magnetic field around
streetlights. I don't think that's what I'm actually seeing, but that's what
it looks like.

~~~
jerf
As mentioned in another message, you may have astigmatism. I get triangular
spikes off of relatively point-sources at a consistent angle of about 10
degrees clockwise from vertical from my astigmatism. Your angle will vary, of
course.

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S_A_P
From some of my past experience, I am skeptical. I think they make assumptions
about what people will and wont see that just arent correct.

~~~
bmelton
I suspect that they're right for certain brains on certain types of LSD, but
as someone who once had a pipeline to the stuff, there are many different
formulations that produce dramatically different effects.

Distinctly, I remember watching Mars Attacks in theaters (which should date
the experience) on what was promised to be a "special" blend... how it was
special, I have no idea, but the visualizations were very unique.

In lieu of the strobe effect this article discusses, everything instead
morphed. When someone turned their head, for example, my eyes (brain?) saw
their head briefly in both positions (with no gaps), and then they morphed
from the first position into the second position, its path being trailed by a
ghost of their heads.

It was unique, different, and I've never had another experience like it.
Perhaps there was something in the mix that wasn't purely LSD, I honestly
don't know, but from my (admittedly naive) understanding, not every trip
produces the same effects as every other.

~~~
ZeroFries
What do you mean by "types of LSD". It's one chemical, no?

~~~
bmelton
I mean "types" more like I might say "types of water". Sure, there's only
_one_ real water, and whether there's lemon added, or if it's filtered through
limestone, it technically bears a different configuration (now making it water
with lemon, or water with limestone).

That said, LSD is (to my experience) rarely concocted at pharmaceutical grade.
Different concentrations, different configurations, different additives lead
to different outputs, each of which we might all refer to as LSD colloquially,
but which are all effectively "water, with a hint of lemon", or whatever else,
moreso than LSD-25 vs. something else.

~~~
pantalaimon
There are not many chemicals active in the μg range, let alone when they are
only present in traces.

With psychedelics dose and unknown environmental and psychological factors can
lead to different effect, so there is no need to speculate about a different
chemical composition.

I'd be careful when talking about 'different kinds of LSD' because while there
are indeed various other Lysergamides that produce analogues effects, most of
the time you are more likely to get something that is not LSD at all (e.g.
NBOMe) when talking about 'different kinds' of LSD.

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duaneb
Related: gwern's study was pretty bad in a number of ways, most notably that
it's unlikely the lsd was stored correctly, which will have a large effect on
potency and make dosage much less meaningful as the test progresses.

Furthermore, I think there's a lot to be said that the brain needs to be
"trained" to make good uses of the drug, including microdoses—you might be
able to recognize the effects better if you're already familiar with the doses
at a strong level. However, this is completely spitballing. I'm eager to see
proper medical/psychological testing with pharmacists maintaining dosage and
administration.

~~~
gwern
> Related: gwern's study was pretty bad in a number of ways, most notably that
> it's unlikely the lsd was stored correctly, which will have a large effect
> on potency and make dosage much less meaningful as the test progresses.

It was stored fine. LSD will not self-destruct in days when stored in
distilled water in a refrigerator. It will not even self-destruct after
multiple decades in a jar. People store LSD in all sorts of forms for regular
trips and it works fine, and somehow, people keep reporting positive microdose
experiences regardless of how they sourced or stored their LSD...

~~~
duaneb
You were not in control of the drug before you took it. You have no idea what
you took. the sample size is one (or arguably two). Are you saying that in
spite of this, your experiment has any meaningful results?

I have no idea why you're attempting to preserve the authenticity of your
experiment when it had vanishingly few verifiable materials, effects, and
samples. Your post has great value without attempting to draw results.

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fomoz
Psychedelics aren't about pure visuals. They're more about _meaning_.

~~~
ThrustVectoring
Same thing.

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indians_pro
how??

~~~
ThrustVectoring
"Seeing" is the process of constructing meaning from the raw activation of the
light receptors in your eyes. That's why optical illusions work. After all,
it's simply patterns of ink on a page - why should you see things that seem
impossible? It's because the image is designed to get your brain to construct
a particular meaning out of the image.

~~~
zardo
LSD's effect isn't limited to visual perception. One of the most common
reported phenomenon is a sort of understanding of the connectedness of things.

That may be a result of the reality that all things really are connected when
they are stored as concepts in a network of neurons.

~~~
ThrustVectoring
I'm well aware of that. What I'm getting at is that the same process that
produces changes in how visual sense data gets interpreted also produces
changes in how all your other sense data gets interpreted. This includes the
sense data that introspection and narrative construction generates.

~~~
purplerabbit
This in no way follows from your initial equation, which by itself doesn't
make any sense.

Visuals contain meaning, but they are not meaning.

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tedmiston
It would be interesting to hear more about the micro-dosing part.

> Finally, we are currently experiencing a memetic explosion with regards to
> the use of micro-doses. .... A more noticeable enhancement would be observed
> on artists, writers and possibly mathematicians. It is genuinely exciting
> that there is a new wave of attention to this particular application of
> psychedelics: General, all-purpose life-enhancement.

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cubix
What I found most remarkable about my LSD experience were the auditory
effects. It seemed like my hearing had been dramatically enhanced. I could
readily pick out a conversation being held between two people standing a
hundred feet away. Of course, that could just be an illusion, but I was
curious if anyone had studied this phenomenon.

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theboywho
How about trying to apply the same logic for communicating with people with
Synesthesia?

As a synesthete myself, that was the first thought I had after reading this
article. It would be interesting to see where this leads.

~~~
ZeroFries
You would have to find a synesthete with the same sensory cross-over to you,
and hope you have a similar mapping of the senses, right? Aren't the mappings
at least semi-individualistic? E.g. Person A sees red when looking at the
number 42, Person B sees blue.

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throwawayornot
"* LSD here is a shorthand for psychedelics in general."

~~~
purplerabbit
The tracing effect is specific to LSD and LSD-like compounds. Mescaline and
DMT, for instance, have very different effects.

~~~
ChristianBundy
Yep, ergolines are known specifically for this behavior (although I've had
similar experiences with psilocybin).

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Phemist
Imagine the types of debugging tools you'd need to be able to finish a game
like the one suggested in the article. They would necessarily need to encode
transformations such as those that happen when taking LSD, compared to
baseline sober people.

Or of course, try and code while high..

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anigbrowl
_Even more awesome is the idea that this technology can lead to the creation
of a video-game that only people on psychedelics can understand and play._

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Giraffe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Giraffe)
seems like a good candidate, though no for the reasons the author suggests. I
usually suck on high speed videogames but I just kept endlessly running up a
high score on Space Giraffe while my wife (who's way better than me at arcade
games) sat there going 'but how are you playing? What's even going on?!'

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logicallee
The authors should get an Ig Nobel award for this. I mean, out of all the
things to research... how to communicate secretly with someone who uses a
decoding tool of a heavy psychedelic drug (instead of a decoder ring)...

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elthran
Interesting idea - I wonder if this was investigated by the CIA during the
MKUltra days?

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eip
Real heads just use telepathy.

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Franciscouzo
Here's a kinda related subreddit
[https://www.reddit.com/r/replications/](https://www.reddit.com/r/replications/)
'The work submitted should seek to emulate the psychedelic experience as
accurately as possible from a "first person" vantage point.'

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ryanlol
This would be significantly easier to test if the author included a few more
images.

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1812Overture
Sounds like a great way to gaslight someone.

~~~
ethanbond
Which seems especially insidious to do to someone who's tripping. Holy shit.

