
Own a Vizio Smart TV? It’s Watching You - tysone
http://www.propublica.org/article/own-a-vizio-smart-tv-its-watching-you
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ourmandave
I don't understand why you'd want a Smart TV. If something goes south (in this
age of disposable tech) it becomes like those TV/VCR combos of the past where
1/2 of it doesn't work.

[http://www.howtogeek.com/176392/smart-tvs-are-stupid-why-
you...](http://www.howtogeek.com/176392/smart-tvs-are-stupid-why-you-dont-
really-want-a-smart-tv/)

~~~
marcoperaza
Smart TVs don't cost more. And they function just fine as normal TVs. I got a
60 inch Vizio smart TV for about $400 and I'm pretty happy with it. I was
pretty skeptical about the Smart TV features, but the built-in Netflix and
Amazon Prime apps are actually very convenient and are more user friendly than
a Chromecast. I can search, pause, rewind, change episodes, etc. without using
my laptop. When the Smart TV features become obsolete, or I switch to a
streaming service that's not available, it still has HDMI ports like any TV.
As for this privacy concern, a) it can be turned off, and b) it's nothing new;
Netflix tracks your viewing habits, Amazon tracks your viewing habits,
Facebook tracks your web browsing habits, etc.

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rodgerd
> Smart TVs don't cost more.

Yes, they do. My non-smart Panasonic was a couple of hundred dollars cheaper
than the equivalent smart ones.

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op00to
If you expect a certain set of features (3D, higher quality display, etc.),
the only devices that satisfy those requirements have smart functionality
built in. The non-smart TVs I've viewed at Best Buy in the last year or so all
look washed out or otherwise inferior. It sucks, and I prefer to use a
streaming box versus the smart functionality, but to get the features I wanted
I had to pick a smart TV.

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bsilvereagle
The "fix" to this is to not let your TV connect to the internet. Instead, use
a set top box that you trust to stream Netflix, etc. Mythtv or tvheadend are
good solutions for live tv if you have a computer with a capture card.

~~~
Bud
No. The fix is to militate against "smart" TV makers and boycott them until
they remove this malware and stop snooping as a means to gain more revenue.
That is the only fix. No other fixes are trustable and verifiable at this
point.

The fix is, don't ever buy a smart TV. Buy the stupidest TV you possibly can.

TV makers don't know anything about software and security, and they don't care
at all about user privacy. So they shouldn't be allowed to write software and
put features in their TVs.

~~~
Silhouette
_TV makers don 't know anything about software and security, and they don't
care at all about user privacy. So they shouldn't be allowed to write software
and put features in their TVs._

I'm not sure that blanket restrictions on evolving technologies are a good
idea, but the manufacturers and any store selling their products _should_ be
required to prominently disclose any unexpected or potentially unwanted
behaviour so potential purchasers can make an informed decision. If we are
truly going to see the Internet of Things invading our homes and household
devices coming with privacy policies, perhaps we should legislate that those
policies must be written on packaging and displayed alongside the products in
stores in text large enough to read from as far away as you can usefully see
the product itself. ;-)

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jordache
sneaky ass vizio.. the setting to disable this is buried under a system
diagnostics section with the word "Reset" prominently showing as the menu
entry. It's as if they want to discourage owner from venturing into that menu
out of fear of the Reset.

~~~
qq66
Much safer to never give the TV network credentials.

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windexh8er
One of the crappy things is, for example, the way LG chooses to approach this.
My guess is they're just as bad as Vizio with their new "WebOS" TVs
(disclosure: I own one, started reading disclaimer - they send all activity to
LG proper as well). Opted out of everything thinking I won't watch any OTA or
cable on the TV anyway since it's a media room panel, however I did want to
use the built in Netflix / Amazon from time to time instead of having to
provide another box in a minimalistic A/V setup.

Problem is... As soon as I tried to fire up Netflix the app on the TV needed
an "update". To get the update you have to agree to all ToS. Complete and
utter BS approach to forcing customers into a path of least resistance.

It's also hard to get a premium panel (I was specifically looking for
4:4:4@60Hz) without the "smarts". It boiled down to price vs features vs
requirements and thus I ended up where I did. I ended up revoking my
acceptance of ToS and biting the bullet to use an external device for
streaming content... Unfortunately I don't think most people care, or if they
would they don't realize they should in these scenarios. The unfortunate
reality...

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pdkl95
> Netflix the app on the TV needed ... agree to all ToS

Was the Netflix app one of the advertised featured?

Was this ToS presented[1] to you before you purchased it?

If they advertised a feature but failed to deliver it in the product you paid
for, then I think you deserve your money back. They failed to deliver a
merchantable good, as required[2] by UCC § 2-314(2)(f).

[1] "It was posted on our website" doesn't count, unless that was the place
you purchased the TV. Requiring consumers to search every manufacturer's
website before purchasing anything is insane.

[2]
[https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-314](https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-314)

~~~
windexh8er
> Was the Netflix app one of the advertised featured?
> [http://www.lg.com/ca_en/tvs/lg-58UF8300-uhd-
> tv](http://www.lg.com/ca_en/tvs/lg-58UF8300-uhd-tv) \- It's not clear from
> the product landing page what's included with regards to apps. However,
> Netflix is installed out of the box and there doesn't appear any way to
> uninstall it. But, it's unusable, as stated, until it's updated. The only
> way to update it is to agree to the ToS.

You can see on this landing page: [http://www.lg.com/us/experience-tvs/smart-
tv/use](http://www.lg.com/us/experience-tvs/smart-tv/use)

That Netflix is clearly part of the standard build (no installation required -
Netflix comes with the TV out of the box, no interaction required.

Sounds like this is illegal. So what's my recourse with LG?

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cmdlinerambo
They call the feature smart interactivity. Set to on. Talk about a dark
pattern.

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yuhong
This was on Ars a while ago. I mentioned how even today's "non-smart" TVs have
to decode digital ATSC signals from the antenna (unlike the TVs of decades
ago) in one of the comments, and how today's "monitors" are not that different
besides lacking this decoder/tuner and a few other things like the IR
sensor/remote.

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McGlockenshire
I'm kind of surprised we haven't seen any tuners on a stick, given the
increasing trend of things that directly connect to HDMI ports. On the other
hand, most "dumb" monitors don't seem to often include multiple HDMI inputs,
so that might explain that.

~~~
windexh8er
Tuners on a stick have been around for well over a decade (Hauppauge was
probably one of the first consumer focused brands and still sells a myriad of
tuners). The problem is CableCard (out of CableLabs, which is run by a
consortium of all the providers) and it's amazingly restrictive licensing.
This is part of the reason why you can't really get a tuner for things like
MythTV... Well, you can - but even though things were relaxed for CableCards
(since it was such a craptastic solution for everyone but the cable cabal as a
whole) the providers still control the DRM. And so having a cable card on
Linux without a relationship with the powers that be results in the bulk of
non-public broadcast to be useless even with an "approved" CableCard on Linux.

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yuhong
I am talking about OTA ATSC tuners.

~~~
windexh8er
And like I said, plenty of those types of products exist to solve that
problem...

[http://hauppauge.com/site/products/prods_hvr_external.html](http://hauppauge.com/site/products/prods_hvr_external.html)
[http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/](http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/)

...what I was describing is the problematic issue with CableCard and the DRM
problem: the inability to run a trustworthy OS (i.e. non-Smart-TV-solution-
that-spies-on-all-your-viewing-habits) to process encrypted QAM and the
like... ATSC solutions are aplenty, some of the best are the Silicondust
hardware.

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spedru
The only winning move is not to play, as they say. Televisions are overrated
anyway.

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hueving
The comments on that article are awful. Spare yourselves and don't read them!

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zobzu
ive a vizio smart tv (they basically are all smart tvs now) its just not
online. easy. the software sucks anyway.

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winstonZedmore
1984

