
The House Y Combinator Should Have Built - dariusmonsef
http://hellobubs.com/post/18452778324/house-ycombinator-should-have-built
======
pg
People occasionally suggest we should provide housing. I think it's a mistake
for the same reason having founders work out of our space would be a mistake.

E.g. it probably is encouraging for the weakest startups to have some kind of
shared workspace they have to come to every day. But for the best startups
it's not only unnecessary, but undesirable. Larry and Sergey would not have
been better off in some kind of shared workspace. Their garage was the ideal
place for them.

The arguments pro and con for shared living space seem to be more extreme
versions of the arguments for shared workspace.

If we have to choose between helping failures become small successes and
helping successes become big successes, we'd prefer to work on the latter.

~~~
abstractbill
_If we have to choose between helping failures become small successes and
helping successes become big successes, we'd prefer to work on the latter._

I have a lot of respect for this viewpoint, and the clarity with which you
state it, though it is almost exactly the opposite of what I would say myself.
You should write an essay on this if you can find time. It would be incredibly
interesting, at least to me.

~~~
barrkel
It's a concise description of the difference in incentives between investors
and founders. But I'm not sure if it isn't a false dichotomy. Larry and Sergey
are asserted to have been better off in their garage; how do we know that they
wouldn't have been even bigger starting in a shared space? Maybe they could
have attracted some other very bright sparks that reduced the size of their
engineering-oriented blind spots.

~~~
pg
I know because before I was an investor, I was a founder. We'd never have
wanted to work out of an investor's space. It would have been distracting and
demoralizing.

~~~
barrkel
When people are having to move to the Bay Area just to be in YC, finding a
place to stay etc. is distracting, not to mention stressful.

I think framing matters. If it's presented as "when you take my money, you
must live on my land, be overseen by me" etc., it's almost feudal, and of
course no-one with free choice would choose that kind of environment. But if
it's "if you want to be mentored by me, I can host you for a short while along
with a bunch of other ambitious folks", it seems different.

~~~
davidw
> When people are having to move to the Bay Area just to be in YC, finding a
> place to stay etc. is distracting, not to mention stressful.

Sounds like the thing to do would be to eliminate that friction by helping
people quickly and easily locate places of their own, then.

------
blhack
Building something _like_ this has been my dream for the last 6 years or so.

"Hacker Hostel" (That name is already taken, though).

The "I'm an accentric billionaire" fantasy of mine is basically to build this,
except to run it as an invite-only non-profit.

Makes me happy to hear that I'm not alone in this thinking :) (Because it
_does_ sound a bit like I'm wanting to build a hippie commune when I describe
this to people).

To expand on the fantasy a little bit:

"To apply to hacker hostel, send us a puzzle, that's your application. It
doesn't matter if you've never touched a computer before, or if you just
finished your PhD.

If you get accepted, you can come out and live here for 1 semester, during
which time you're free to create whatever you want. We'll fund the supplies,
we've got a workshop, just build, and share whatever knowledge you have with
the other people that are here.

If, while you're here, you build the next big thing, and are suddenly swimming
in cash, good for you! We don't own your IP, although if you would donate to
our trust, we'd really appreciate it."

Personally, I see a problem with the current cycle of:

go to school -> go to college -> get a job -> CAT PICTURES/Financial
Services/Advertising!

I hate that. If I have have the means, I plan on breaking it.

And stuff I'm doing now: I keep a server that doesn't get any of my personal
projects on it. Any time one of my friends posts to facebook or tells me that
they want to learn to program computers, or that they have an idea they want
to do, I give them an account on the box, and offer to build it with them, or
to teach them python [the language that I know].

(Now I'm ranting, it's the tea I had for lunch, I think).

It makes me really sad that I can sit here and look at this computer with an
almost total understanding of what is happening with it, and how to make it do
whatever I want, and that the majority of my friends can't.

We [programmers] are all supermen. I've noticed that in the last year, a lot
of us are trying really hard to give that gift to everybody else (code
academy, khan academy, etc.), and that really makes me happy :).

~~~
icco
Well, you do realize it is a hippie commune, just for people interested in
building companies and cool technology. I mean, SF gave us hippies, and then
it gave us silicon valley. Next step would be to have a silicon valley
commune.

~~~
blhack
Haha, this is a good point. I guess the difference is that we'd be living in
converted shipping containers instead of cabins in the woods.

------
grinich
What if instead, your co-inhabitants were musicians, sculptors, writers,
scientists, designers, mathematicians, philosophers, economists, architects,
dancers, and so on, connected by their abundant creativity, passion,
intellect, and curiosity?

PS: nice architecture. PUMA also did some cool stuff with shipping containers
a few years ago. [http://inhabitat.com/prefab-friday-puma-city-container-
archi...](http://inhabitat.com/prefab-friday-puma-city-container-
architecture/)

~~~
sachingulaya
Musicians, sculptors, writers, philosophers, economists, architects, and
dancers have nothing special to contribute to companies like Parse, Heroku, or
Dropbox to name a few.

What is a dancer going to tell me about running my startup? The whole point of
startups moving to SF is so that they can be around other startups.

~~~
grinich
_I've learned a lot from ballet. I appreciate the coordination and the
discipline. Making something simple is very difficult._

    
    
        - Jack Dorsey

------
dsr_
This is a great house. It's spacious, it's airy, it's well laid out. It would
be a great house to have a party in.

However, it's in Maine.

And that means that since the insulation is almost nonexistent and the windows
are huge, the heating bills are going to be horrendous. When you come in from
the foot of snow (which is not uncommon in Maine) you will be trekking slushy
dirt all over the suddenly frigid main room.

Maine houses have mudrooms, covered porches, or other systems like airlocks to
prevent too much heat from escaping while you bring in your groceries and take
off your boots.

~~~
brudgers
Shipping containers are great for packing full of stuff, but dreadfully
proportioned for living space -- less than 8' ceilings (before insulation and
finishes); less than 8' wide (before insulation and finishes); and forty feet
long with a door at only one end (horrible for circulation and functional
zoning because you have to walk through one space to get to another).

Just because a shipping container worked for Stewart Brand when he put
together the Whole Earth Catalogs, doesn't mean they make good habitable
spaces. The length was useful for laying out lots of pages in a production
line and the steel walls allowed him to use magnets for 'pinning up' pages.
These are not features particularly relevant to most activities including
software development. [See Brand's _How Buildings Learn_ ].

The predominate feature of shipping containers is that they make great
archiporn images of the sort shown in the article - a high road building
masquerading as a low road building (something Brand also talks about in _How
Buildings Learn_ ).

BTW, it's probably a summer house given that it has no garage, which is even
harder to imagine as a design decision for a Maine winter.

------
vessenes
Interestingly, you describe in your dream list what I would say many top
business schools do: shove people together on intense projects after vetting
them. The idea is that the 'cream' has already risen, so bonding is critical.
And also, your IP belongs mostly to you in the YC model, that's nice, and
sometimes lucrative.

It's interesting to think of you running a business school, pg.

~~~
paulsutter
YC is probably the top business school in the country by market cap created.

What is the right ranking metric for business schools, and what does the top
10 look like?

The best way to drive the reinvention of higher education will be to rank new
approaches side by side with the old guard.

~~~
anamax
> YC is probably the top business school in the country by market cap created.

Biz schools aren't all that good at creating market cap.

Consider Stanford. It has a top-ranked biz school that focuses on startups.

Still, the CS department laps the biz school in "market cap created". I think
that EE does as well, and there are probably a couple of other departments
that have created more market cap. (Bio-tech is the obvious candidate.)

I think that a biz school that creates more market cap than the top technical
departments is evidence that the technical departments are failing.

------
zoba
There are several parallels I see between the YC experience and college
fraternities. A group of people (often men) with a similar interest, with a
powerful alumni network.

Unfortunately, I found living in a fraternity house very distracting for my
school work. There were always people doing "downtime" activities like gaming,
drinking, etc. I certainly participated in these activities more than I would
have if I had been on my own. It was great for my social network, bad for my
studies.

I imagine a similar thing could happen in a house with too many YC founders...
It would be especially detrimental because there's only 3 months to get YC
done right, versus 4 years of college.

I imagine Drew Houston would have some good input on this, having been in both
a fraternity and YC.

------
abiekatz
What Tim Draper is planning on doing with Draper University, which is a former
hotel in San Mateo, may end up being pretty awesome.
[http://www.mercurynews.com/san-mateo-county-
times/ci_1984021...](http://www.mercurynews.com/san-mateo-county-
times/ci_19840215)

I think the rise of "hacker houses" is indicative that people really care
about community and like living with like-minded people who they can
collaborate with, be inspired by and socialize with.

I think there is potentially room for a hybrid residential university and
incubator model. I don't think making housing required but making it optional
for those who want it would be awesome.

------
alexlumley
As a guy who lives in a house with 5 Bain consultants (not hackers I know, I
know, but smart, driven people) I can tell you that living in a house with
other people you work with is absolutely awesome. Surrounding yourself with
driven, talented people really helps creating new ideas, meeting new
interesting people and in general creating an awesome environment. While I
would love to have a "Hacker House" my MVP of having a consulting house is
working out wonderfully and I highly recommend you try it.

------
davidw
"Heavily _curated_ community"? I'm beginning to loathe that buzzword because
it's so hollow. Of course YC is selective - anyone not stark raving mad would
be selective when handing out thousands of dollars of their own (and their
investors) money.

A few words that would work better to describe YC (going with just the
positive ones here): elite, choosy, discerning, elect, exceptional, exclusive,
select, restrictive, hand-picked and so on... 'dict' is your friend.

~~~
dariusmonsef
Sorry. Is there another word to describe "curation", that tickles your hate
nerve less?

And it's not just in selecting startups for batches, but as I mention,
communication between founders, etc.

Not a bad thing, just one approach to creating a community experience.

~~~
davidw
No, not a bad thing at all, it's the natural state of pretty much anything
where a person selects a set of things from a larger set. Which, given the
finite nature of a great deal of that which surrounds us, is... well, a lot of
stuff!

"Most of the people in our office were curated by my old boss before he moved
to another division"

"The few, the proud, the...curated"

"I curated my wife from amongst those on offer in the mail-order catalog"

~~~
defen
"Curate" (verb) is one of those words that has lost most of its meaning, due
to people using it in order to steal its cachet. Previously it was associated
with art museums and libraries, institutions of supreme cultural importance.
Now that anyone can make a list and put it on the internet, anyone can be a
curator, which means you don't get much information about someone if you learn
that he is a "curator".

~~~
davidw
> Now that anyone can make a list and put it on the internet

The funny thing is that is what Yahoo was in the very beginning, 15+ years
ago.

------
morrow
Very nice design, the layout, with common areas below meeting areas, reminds
me of Pixar's headquarters
<http://www.bcj.com/public/projects/project/39.html>

I remember hearing in the excellent pixar documentary that one of the
intentions behind this layout was to facilitate random interactions among
employees, all sharing a common, open walkway.

------
benatkin
I'm sure YC is well aware that they could be like Google (which has all but
the kitchen sink where housing is the kitchen sink). I'm glad they chose a
more meetup-y route instead.

<https://docs.google.com/View?docid=dg2z5whw_41cb322p>

Besides being a less well-rounded experience, it would be setting up for a
more difficult transition out of YC.

------
Vivtek
I've off-and-on dreamed about that as a revitalization for the old
millionaire's neighborhood I live in. Lots of huge 1880's brick houses
(including mine) chopped up into squalid little apartments for drunks and
dumpster divers, when they'd actually be absolutely _perfect_ for
living/working spaces. Big ballrooms and so forth would be great for working
in. And dirt cheap.

------
wtffffff
Great article with great insight, but this makes YC sound like a frat house,
imo. What startup founders want to hear is that they will be successful. They
don't want to hear about how it is going to help their networking and how they
are going to become great friends with people, even if that is really what is
important. It is, btw.

~~~
dariusmonsef
I would argue that some of the most successful people are where they are
because of the powerful networks they belong to... The YC network is an
amazing resource of driven, talented and super smart people... wouldn't you
want to be great friends with these people?

------
otisfunkmeyer
I like the idea of the ranch in Hawaii. I agree with you--my experiences
traveling when I have couchsurfed or volunteered have been orders of magnitude
more memorable than when I stayed in a hotel.

What's your plan re: ranch?? Sounds like a fun project to build.

~~~
dariusmonsef
Hmm. Plan might be a stronger word than where I'm at with this :)

It's a 3-5yr vision.

~~~
gonzo
I just left Hawaii (to move back to Austin) after 8 years.

Hawaii is beautiful, but it's never going to be hacker heaven.

~~~
dariusmonsef
Probably not... but I'll settle for Hacker Holiday.

------
MattRogish
I would participate in this, but not given away to folks for free.

I think having startups work/live in one really cool space can be really
interesting and valuable, but they'd all have to pay rent. A "frat house" but
for startups & geeks? I dig.

~~~
dariusmonsef
Back before I knew of YC, I schemed on the idea of having a startup frat.
Where pledges bust ass to build products, apps, etc. The profits are shared
with those that built them, but also heavily reinvested back into the frat...
But then I never went back to college. :)

~~~
joewadcan
PG made a good point that YC is focused on the good founders on the margin of
being great. A few guys who go to school with me here at Berkeley are focused
on the flip side of that. People who are starting something smaller, and need
just a bit of a push. They call is Agora House, where founder live in a the
House, after serious vetting. Check it : <https://www.facebook.com/AgoraHouse>

------
zyeljanee
Its everyones’ dream to live in a good house. But one thing that draws people
back is that they don't have time to put ideas together and do research. At YC
its the place everyone would die for mmmmmhhhhh I like the whole idea

------
jot
How about curating a list of startup friendly houses on Airbnb. Could be a
good marketing approach for the landlords to say "startups X, Y and Z started
here". I'm sure they'd be popular outside of YC seasons too.

~~~
dariusmonsef
Yeah, that's probably good marketing for some houses.

------
Freestyler_3
How is the power supply, I see places to sit and all but did not really see
power outlets. And I think people will need those everywhere (until we have
super batteries that last forever).

Maybe I am thinking to far ahead :P

------
zupa
I'd prefer a place that is less perfect. Where you can dig things into the
wall, change the furniture or paint your room. Give a place but don't take my
freedom.

Besides, it looks amazing! I just didn't want to move in:)

------
eldude
I personally think this would make a much cooler hacker space:

<http://founderscastle.com/>

~~~
kloncks
...what is this? Seems like it's just four links to four houses on Realtor.com

Care to elaborate?

------
scottilee
Building friendships and sharing experiences is a great thing, but can't too
much on those things bring down productivity?

~~~
dariusmonsef
Sure. So don't spend all your time socializing :)

------
joelrunyon
How serious are you about building in hawaii? :)

What island?

------
dmor
You had me til Hawaii

~~~
dariusmonsef
No love for the Islands huh?

