
The Light Phone - lelf
https://www.thelightphone.com/
======
Hamuko
Do the makers think that there's a sizeable portion of people that hate their
iPhones or Galaxies and want to spend $350 on a phone that doesn't do things?
Doesn't do social media, doesn't do email, doesn't do news. Most consumers
would at this point ask "What's the fucking point?"

Smartphones are popular because people want to do the things that they enable.
You probably need to live in some sort of a niche social circle in order to
justify $350 just to be able to tell people how your minimalist phone is not
able to browse the Internet.

If you just wanted to have a basic phone that doesn't do a lot of things, you
could buy a Nokia 3310 for $60. You just don't get to brag about your
disconnected way of living since the Nokia 3310 can actually do those things.

~~~
arc4random
You’re glossing away a lot of important details here with “phone that doesn’t
do things”.

So, I’m very much in the market for what the Light Phone 2 is going for: not a
phone that doesn’t do anything but make calls and text, but a phone with “the
essentials”. The problem is that not everyone who wants such a phone has the
same set of essentials.

The single biggest issue that I have with feature phones is that they lack a
qwerty keyboard. I’ve tried a couple in the past few years, and I just can’t
go back to texting on a numeric keypad. Texting today is very different from
what it was in the 90s and early 2000s. So many conversations you would have
today, you cannot meaningfully participate in with a numeric keypad. You find
yourself immediately going back to the terseness that gave birth to the
various forms of texting shorthand, because text input is _so slow_.

The second biggest issue is that I need a transit map. I live in NYC, and I’m
not going to memorize all the different subway lines and stops and schedules.
You can actually get Google Maps on a KaiOS phone, and it’s slow but it more
or less works. Problem is, you’re still stuck with the numeric keypad. (You
can use voice dictation via Google, but I don’t like using Google.)

Third, while I don’t need it often, I do sometimes need to use a ride-hailing
app.

On top of all this, I don’t want a browser or social media apps or games or
movies or music.

That’s just me, though. Someone else may want music, or a note taking app, or
a calendar.

A lot of this stuff is on the roadmap for the Light Phone 2, but until it
actually hits my set of essentials, it doesn’t work for me.

~~~
doovd
You're missing the point - having these "essentials" shouldn't cost 350

------
ricardobeat
I got mine still in the box in a drawer somewhere. The main selling point for
me were the additional features compared to the original. From the FAQ:

> These tools are currently being developed and will be released in the coming
> few months

These tools being the promised features of Music / Notes / Calculator /
Directions / Ride hailing, and "coming months" being the end of 2019.

It's been almost two years since the launch, and the original light phone will
soon celebrate it's 5th anniversary so I'm not sure I should hold my breath.
If anybody from the team is reading this, I'd love to hear what's blocking the
software development side.

~~~
AndrewKemendo
I thought the whole point of this phone was to NOT have those things.

~~~
ip26
Nobody bought the Light Phone to escape the dopamine drip of Calculator.

~~~
dice
My three year old and I actually had a lot of fun with the Calculator app on
my phone just a couple hours ago. He thought that me reading off large numbers
was _hilarious_.

So, yeah, Calculator is a pretty important feature.

------
_hhff
My team built the OS on a custom fork of Android
([https://www.sanctuary.computer](https://www.sanctuary.computer)).

I would say ask me anything but I’m in the middle of the Australian outback
with virtually no mobile signal...!

What I can say is that working with Eink is rudimentary - we had to build
everything from a custom kernel driver all the way up to the view layouts and
UX. We expected Eink would give us sophisticated SDKs, but unfortunately a lot
of wheels had to be reinvented. I have huge respect for the team behind the
Yota Phone!

I’ve written a tear down of how it all works that I’ll be sharing soon on our
company twitter if anyone is interested.

(not sent from a light phone)

~~~
mesozoic
The battery life must be immense right? AT least one advantage there? How long
does it last.

~~~
cheez
Well they're using Android so... Probably not much. Display isn't that
important to battery life (unless you're using it all the time.)

~~~
_hhff
Yup, exactly. I would have liked to use something like KaiOS, but we had a
short deadline and that would have meant porting/rewriting a bunch of Qualcomm
drivers for the snapdragon on KaiOS.

We also couldn’t preempt the new features we’d like to add (directions, find
my phone, etc), so full android felt like a safer option all things
considered.

~~~
tmzt
If you go this direction in future, take a look at ofono.

There are QMI as well as AT/RIL drivers in the works.

------
tashoecraft
I think an Apple Watch with cellular accomplishes a lot of what light phone
does. Leave your phone behind and just keep all the social apps off the watch
(they’re not really usable anyway).

You can still accomplish a lot of what you need from a phone, and pair some
AirPods and you have music, podcasts, easy hands free calling

~~~
sailfast
I know this is crazy but one can also just not install social apps on one’s
phone, and continue to use all the functions that still provide a great deal
of utility without compromises.

~~~
noahtallen
The problem is that it’s an addiction — I was addicted, so I would still
access those apps via the browser. Until I permanently deleted all of my
accounts, I would still be looking at them for hours a day. Even now, I waste
my time with Reddit or even HN. :)

The root problem is much deeper and I think it’s difficult to address without
behavior change (which is hard). Making it very difficult to do is a good
compromise while you’re also working on building self control. These phones
take that difficulty to a new level so long as you’re away from your other
devices.

~~~
sailfast
I’m with you - I had to ask my wife to change my Twitter password and not tell
me. Facebook was easier. When I have to access for local community things I
use Firefox Focus. It’s still addictive, but my sessions are fewer. That said,
I’m still on here and a few other places (craigslist for sale stream, anyone?)
as placeholders. I wouldn’t say it is hours per day, but it was more time than
I wanted.

I’ve found productive addictions include things like ear training, Duolingo,
etc - they replace the tactile sensation and give you that quieter time to
yourself but at least you’re learning.

------
paxys
It's like the world collectively decided to forget that basic feature phones
and cheap prepaid plans have always existed and continue to exist.

~~~
Aloha
I strongly suspect the people funding this don't know anyone who don't buy a
flagship phone.

------
kpmcc
I just received my light phone and while I haven't used it much yet I'm mostly
a fan. I used the Punkt MP01 for a while and it's still pretty much my
favorite phone ever. We'll see how I feel about the E-ink display on this
thing after some real use. The blinking and ghosting is kind of annoying, but
not a deal-breaker. Honestly though I think the main reason I liked the Punkt
phone so much was the buttons. Buttons are seriously underrated. I've noticed
this already with entering text on the light phone. The screen is purposefully
small and trying to cram a full keyboard onto a tiny touchpad is a little
iffy. I'm not so concerned about the lack of features at this point. I'd
already though about coding up my own little text bot with Twilio to call
rides through lyft or uber's APIs so maybe this will give me some incentive.

Edit: Yeah the flipping back and forth between landscape and portrait mode is
pretty annoying. Devs if you're reading this please address in a future
update.

~~~
Fnoord
The Light Phone and Punkt both have a disadvantage: they're not rugged while
they are expensive. On the long term I'm interested in a dumbphone for my
child (and I am interested in living a disconnected life, on top of that,
myself, with an offline e-reader and an offline DAP serving me quite well),
but it needs to be rugged. If it is not rugged and not durable, then what is
the point of using such? You can't take it for hiking, you have to be super
careful with it like an expensive, normal smartphone.

------
shawndrost
How to make your iphone a light phone:

1\. Make it black and white. [https://medium.com/better-humans/how-to-make-
your-iphone-bla...](https://medium.com/better-humans/how-to-make-your-iphone-
black-and-white-and-why-you-should-42e70deb92c7)

1b. If you're like me, and you like colors when looking at pics people send
you, set up your phone to toggle to full-color mode when you triple-tap.
[https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/accessibility-
shortcu...](https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/accessibility-shortcuts-
iph3e2e31a5/ios)

2\. Delete the apps that aren't "basic functionality", then break your app
store and browser. [https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT201304](https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201304)

Step 2 involves setting up a passcode. I recommend getting a friend to enter
this passcode, then hide it away from you, since you obviously can't trust
your junkie brain.

I did this and it is RAD. I still use a subset of communication-oriented
social media, but my phone is kind of boring now, in a good way.

~~~
divbzero
I’ve heard about the black & white mental hack multiple times and finally
tried it today after reading this comment. I like it already and have applied
it to my computer as well. Not sure how much of the effect is real vs. placebo
(or if that distinction even matters) but the reduction in stimuli seems to
sharpen my focus.

------
dangus
Modern smartphones already give you the tools to stop abusing your phone’s
dominance of your attention.

Screen time and other similar controls let you limit your usage of distracting
apps. Or just don’t install them and learn some self control. Put your phone
in your bag instead of your pocket, or maybe leave it at home sometimes.

A black and white phone missing basic features compared to a modern Nokia
feature phone along with being currently unavailable to purchase without
waiting is, overall, a shitty proposition.

And I didn’t even see the price before writing all that out. $350. No way. A
KaiOS device seems way more sensible.

~~~
MperorM
I've installed and uninstalled reddit maybe 7 times in the last year, and even
when I don't have it installed I still visit it from my browser.

For my Firefox desktop I have written 5 extensions that blocks websites in
various ways so to help me control my bad urges, but even then I just open up
safari and use it from there.

Fact is just I can't control it, and I am willing to pay thousands of dollars
for any solution that solves these problems without limiting the use of
technology I actually want in my life.

~~~
bbx
If you’re willing to spend thousands of dollars, book a 1-week trip to a
slightly remote place where internet is hard or even impossible to get. Don’t
bring your phone. Just money. The location doesn’t even have to be in the
middle of the woods. Just a small town or village where there’s nothing much
more to do than sightseeing and walking around and having a drink at the local
bar/pub. A beach resort is also a nice option as you’ll have fun activities to
fill your days. Of course a modern resort will have internet so the temptation
will be harder to beat so maybe pick a tiny one.

In any case, the idea is to have a physical disconnection with your phone/the
internet so that you can’t satisfy any urge to check Reddit. The start will be
rough but over time your fear of missing out will disappear. I find that if I
spend time traveling or with family (where browsing reddit or similar is not
easy) I realise when coming back home that I haven’t missed anything. I used
to browse Reddit a lot. Nowadays I just check /r/soccer once in a while and
spend time doing a lot more of other things (music, coding, reading, nothing).

~~~
ADHDthrowaway9
Throwaway, because my professional profile is connected to my main:

You just don't get it. Neither does anyone complaining about $350 for a brick.
You're not the audience. This isn't for you.

This is for the people that both; value their time ($350 is less than an hour
of work and consequently it would take me more than an hour to properly
lockdown my phone) and are looking for absolutely no room for distraction.

I sympathize with the GP, becaue I am exactly like him. The basis for
impulsivity is physiological. There is no pre-thought "Oh I want to do this,
wait maybe I shouldn't" it's just a pure feeling that moves you to do.

I have had many social media accounts, I've made and deleted them many times.
I also have many browser extensions and hosts files to stop myself from
visiting known runaway triggers.

It's untenuable. Amphetamines/stimulants help, but the trade-offs are too
great.

A week-long retreat can "disconnect" you, but that doesn't mean anything when
you come back and jump right back into it.

I've gone so far as to buy a large amount of rural property, have a cabin with
basic electricity, where I run a very barebones W500 OpenBSD ThinkPad with
satellite internet (2Mbps/s). It can't do any kind of media processing
(YouTube, movies, etc.).

It is by far the most productive environment I have ever been in, and I paid
for all of this, because that's what I value.

I'm only posting this, because I impulsively turned off mt extensions and went
into the HN rabbit hole.

------
jtl999
I can understand the sentiment of being "fed up" with the state of current
phone technology, but rather then bringing back dumbphones (see also Nokia's
current product range), why not make phones that have headphone jacks,
removable batteries, microSD card slots, IPS displays, et cetera. The features
that were "removed" to presumably promote consumerism.

~~~
vinc
What you describe looks like a Fairphone, and by choosing carefully what to
install on it I think it'd be a good solution.

------
ekianjo
You can do exactly that kind of things with your regular smartphone by not
installing tons of apps that disturb you all the time. As far as I know the
user is pretty much in control of what apps they choose to add.

~~~
mumblemumble
You can, but, IMO, smartphones are starting to feel like a money pit, too, not
just a time pit. You spend $500 - $1500 on a device that can't be expected to
last more than 4 years (presumably a fair bit less if you cut too close to the
$500 end of the range), and will have an annoyingly short battery life in 2
years. You have to constantly be careful with it, because if you drop it or it
gets scratched by a key or something, there's a good chance that that
enormous, fragile screen will shatter and need replacement. etc. etc.

I am considering switching back to a dumbphone because I miss being able to
buy a phone for $100 and have it work, without fuss, more-or-less
indefinitely. Throw a hotspot feature in there so I can get my $200 iPod Touch
connected when I need to, and I've still got a decent enough way to listen to
podcasts or catch up on my Instapaper feed while I'm waiting for the bus, or
whatever, while saving a fair bit of money. It also theoretically lets me have
all the apps and suchlike while still being able to mitigate distraction.

I like this phone in principle, but I'm afraid $350 price point is a bit tough
to swallow. I assume that a big part of the price is the eInk display, which
is a bit of a shame since it looks like it doesn't actually have any features
that wouldn't also work just fine with a cheapo monochrome LCD.

~~~
ekianjo
> ou spend $500 - $1500 on a device that can't be expected

no, you just buy a model 2 years after its on the market and you pay a
fraction of the initial price.

~~~
npongratz
The downside is you get only a year or two of security updates.

~~~
ekianjo
You still save something like 400 dollars this way. Not sure what is the
actual trade off in your world?

------
LargoLasskhyfv
Ironically my OS said that this computer lacks sufficient RAM, when i allowed
javascript because 'This App needs Javascript to function' appeared. Then the
browser tab crashed with the option to close, or reload. Guess what i choose?

Did i miss something?

edit: Yes, yes, i had many tabs open already, but seriously: LIGHT?

------
vinay427
I don't really care about the price of the phone, because I'm sure it's more
expensive to produce on a smaller scale than mainstream manufacturers, but the
plan is $30 for unlimited texting and calling? Really?

You can get unlimited minutes/SMS and several GB for $10-20/mo from various
MVNOs nowadays. Why they would bother marketing a plan that is $30/mo with no
data is beyond me.

~~~
yellow_lead
Because this phone's audience are affluenza kids with money to waste.

------
scarface74
I already own a device that does just the basics, the cellular Apple Watch:

\- make calls

\- text messages

\- calculator

\- navigation

\- plays music and podcasts

\- and can track my heart rate and speed when I am running.

It lets me leave my phone when I don’t want distractions. When I need
something more full featured, I have my phone. When I want something full
featured with a larger screen, I have an iPad. Calls and text messages go to
all three devices and things are synced where appropriate.

~~~
arkades
Very true. I got the watch for exactly those features,

------
jxcl
ITT: People complaining that a purposefully minimalist phone doesn't have the
very specific feature that they want.

If the point is to be reachable by a loved one in an emergency and nothing
else, this seems like a reasonable option.

~~~
huangc10
ITT? This isn't Reddit. Of course people are going to talk about missing
features.

If the point is to be reachable by a loved one in an emergency and nothing
else, I can think of a hundred other options that don't cost $350. I _think_
that's what you meant.

------
crashedsnow
Feels like a solution looking for a problem to me. Not only are phones
trending away from being "phones" (rather portable internet terminals) but I'd
wager the largest portion of smartphone use is content consumption, rather
than content creation/collaboration. Both of which would suggest this device
is a long, long way from product-market fit.

~~~
mrspeaker
I think it's in the zeitgeist a bit now. Some people (I'm certainly one) are
looking to unhook from their phones - get away from convenience and immediacy
and... the internet in general (typing this from Emacs, so it seems more
forgivable!).

I know at least 5 people - a large percentage of my close network ;) - who
would be interested in this device. I'm sure there's a big enough market for
it if the execution is right. Though I'm personally waiting for Librem for the
security/privacy aspects.

~~~
nradov
Your network isn't representative of the broader market. Only a tiny niche are
actively looking to unhook. Sure plenty of people will claim they want to do
so because they think they ought to. But they're not willing to pay actual
money for it.

~~~
sincerely
They raised like 4 million dollars in crowdfunding, so some people are clearly
willing to pay for it.

------
SCdF
I think the philosophy behind this is lovely, but it unfortunatly falls short
in reality because the flexibility of smart phones is their entire value.

If I want a phone that allows me to make phone calls and send texts and
otherwise not distract me, there are a billion £30 feature phones that will do
that, and have a week+ battery life.

If I want a phone that does anything "smart" but doesn't distract me, what I
consider "smart" but not "distracting" is going to be different to everyone
else, to the point where you need an app store to manage all that difference.
Which is why the only real option is to just manage what apps you install,
manage how it interacts with you (eg notification and noise settings),
regulate how you interact with it (ie stop picking it up, leave it in a
different room etc), and do all that with a normal smart phone.

------
billyhoffman
I get this is supposed to be minimalist but the texting interaction looks
really rough. You read threaded conversations in portrait mode but to reply it
switches you to landscape mode where you can’t see the conversation and can
only see the reply you’re typing. Nokia candy bar phones from the mid 90s let
me type a reply while looking at what I was replying to.

This seems like an oversight

~~~
Zenst
I'd say the Nokia still wins out over this, that's without even looking at the
price. How many Nokia's could you get for $350.

Then there is this aspect:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=thelightphone.com](https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=thelightphone.com)

Which does kinda make you wonder many things, more so, that price. Everything
else seems to of been already covered in past discussions over the many many
years.

~~~
cptskippy
I paid $500 for an unlocked Nokia 6590 around 2002.

------
trox
I wonder where this is heading. The original light phone (version 1 if I
remember correctly) was simply for calling and very minimalistic. To that I am
a bit disappointed that they are adding more features instead of cutting
prices.

~~~
onli
There were some background articles explaining they had to. The first version
was too minimalist, not even the phone makers ended up using them. The set of
the absolutely necessary services for a phone is bigger than one would think
and it differs more - does it include maps? taxi services? texting? Answer
will vary a lot, and by making it too minimalist they would end up satisfying
no one.

It's interesting to see exactly that happening in the comments here - "if it
only had X, Y and Z I would buy it".

~~~
war1025
> It's interesting to see exactly that happening in the comments here - "if it
> only had X, Y and Z I would buy it".

The classic response of anyone not financially invested in a product.
Hopefully they follow through with their intention not to throw in the kitchen
sink rather than burn all their resources trying to attract a picky customer
base that has no intention of ever actually buying the phone.

------
ksec
I just wish Apple make a modern thinner All Screen iPhone 4. ( Even smaller
than iPhone SE ) The screen should be about 4.7" @ 19.5 : 9.

The smaller screen absolutely destroy all gaming and even Internet browsing
experience. The UX is so bad you dont want to use it, but still give you the
choice should there be a need. While retaining all the essential such as
Email, WhatsApp, Calling, Uber, And Music etc.

~~~
b5
That's hyperbolic nonsense. There's a _huge_ number of people, myself
included, that continue to use an iPhone SE with a 4" screen without the
issues you describe. A 4.7" screen is nearly 20% larger than that; it doesn't
"destroy" gaming or internet browsing.

A lot of these same people Apple to release an updated version of the iPhone
SE form-factor. Many of these people are on Hacker News; search for earlier
threads about the iPhone SE being discontinued to see just how many.

* Sent from my iPhone SE

------
bcatanzaro
I got one of these for my 13 year old. We’re trying to ease her into having a
phone without giving her Instagram etc. quite yet, since we think smartphones
can be dangerous for mental health of young teens.

The phone has been a mix of good and bad. The software is still somewhat
buggy. I think the hardest thing is that the eInk screen ghosts a lot and has
a very long refresh cycle, which really can get in the way of using it. There
are times when you just can’t read the screen because it has so much ghosting.
Emoji work but are so tiny they are hard to read.

Overall - I still like it and hope it gets updated software to add the missing
features (music, for example). But the screen is a pretty big compromise. I’d
probably be happier if they used a standard LCD screen.

------
joshvm
Are there any good websites with turn by turn directions that are accessible
on dumb phones?

I had a Nokia candy bar phone with 4G(!) which was reasonable if you wanted to
win an argument using Wikipedia, but Maps was unusable because the ancient
Opera browser couldn't cope. All I wanted was the ability to get the text
directions between two places without having to load all the intervening
javascript. Hacker News worked well, as did BBC news.

There are several modern "dumb" phones which are actually quite capable and
have absurd battery life (I'd get a week plus out of that thing, with 4G on),
but there are so few websites that provide no-frills output.

~~~
Hamuko
Nokia 800 Tough apparently can do 4G and Google Maps.

> _I can pair my Huawei FreeBuds 3 with the Nokia 800 Tough, install a bunch
> of music on it, and jump on my bike. Google Maps navigation provides turn-
> by-turn instructions at a glance while I’m listening to some good riding
> music. I’ve got no concerns about the battery running out or the phone
> falling out of my pocket. I can ask the Google Assistant questions to avoid
> typing queries into the browser. And if I need to, I can stay in touch with
> everyone via WhatsApp voice messages. The list of benefits goes on and on._

[https://www.androidauthority.com/nokia-800-tough-
review-1063...](https://www.androidauthority.com/nokia-800-tough-
review-1063224/)

As an added benefit, you can probably bludgeon someone to death with it after
losing an argument.

~~~
joshvm
That looks good! It's an interesting way around the problem, just put an
Alexa/G Assistant terminal in and you can interact via voice and avoid the
phone all together. But that thing runs YouTube too??

Dual SIM is nice. If it could tether I'd buy that next time I go on a long
holiday (edit - it does!). Non removable battery is a pity too, but I've never
actually needed that.

I've been tempted by the CAT S60/61 though.

I wonder, would it be worth making a service that works over voice calls, not
the Internet? For example have a phone at home that automatically picks up and
relays your call into an Alexa or something, then you can hear the response.
Minutes are so cheap it might actually work.

~~~
Fnoord
There are cheaper CAT (smart|dumb)phones which get less attention and fame,
and have less functionality than the S60/S61 but which are also a lot cheaper.

The interesting conceptual design of the Light Phone is that it is a dedicated
dumbphone with e-ink, like a Kobo reader is a dedicated e-reader with e-ink.
E-ink works if the page stays static, as you read a book. A smartphone, and
dumbphone to lesser extend, have higher screen refreshes. The trend on
smartphones is that the screen Hz is going up from 60 to 90/120 and higher.
Which has battery impact, but as long as the battery is empty each day, it is
acceptable for a lot of people. Now, if my device (be it smartphone,
smartwatch, whatever) is empty every day then I hook it up every day. If it is
empty every week I hook it up weekly (e.g. on Sunday) but every 3 days is
kinda inconvenient.

Just sharing some random thoughts...

~~~
joshvm
I'm mostly interested in the CAT as my job (research) involves a lot thermal
imaging, so there's a nerd factor (the lepton on its own is about £3-400 with
a capture setup). I know there's also the FLIR One, but eh, for field work the
CAT looks handy with the extra sensors.

The light phone looks good, but I do actually want some of the smartphone
features. I was very unhappy when Amazon nerfed 3G on Kindle, I used to use it
for paper like maps when traveling in foreign cities. Google Maps worked very
well.

~~~
Fnoord
I got a stand-alone FLIR for that purpose. Though there's also some which you
can connect under a camera via USB-C/microUSB/lightning.

Everything on the same physical device has its own pros/cons.

~~~
joshvm
Yes, at work we've got a variety of standalone FLIR cameras (Taus, Bosons,
Duos, the One and Leptons) - pretty much the entire camera core range. I work
in ecology and occasionally for outreach or when working with non tech people,
they're interested in seeing what thermal footage looks like. And for field
work it's handy to have environmental measurements in case we want to correct
for atmospheric conditions (rarely tbh).

The FLIR One comes in a USB C model, I've played with that on my Pixel. Works
great although I think you have to use the sdk to get any kind of useful
information out of the camera (eg if you want raw data).

My group specialises in drone imaging and often it's useful to have ground
footage so you can compare simultaneously, for example during biodiversity
surveys. The problem with the plug in solution is the risk of it getting lost
in the field, and it's not rugged enough. We recently did some surveys on a
lake, so an IP rated phone with everything integrated would be ideal.

------
snyp
Any reason why the screen is so small? If it were larger and offered one
handed access to keyboard that would be a huge plus instead of having to
rotate the phone to type.

How do you type numbers you have to call? Do you rotate them phone and type
the numbers?

What about music? The thing that people use the phones most for other than
calls and messages would be music, considering the fact that there aren’t that
many dedicated music players around a phone without a music player makes a lot
less sense

~~~
taneq
Why would it need a bigger screen? It seems explicitly designed not to do any
of the things that would be improved by a bigger screen.

------
api
I don't see maps mentioned. If it lacks that it lacks the largest killer app
of smart phones.

~~~
oh_sigh
Also only texting, not WhatsApp or other messaging platforms.

~~~
sprafa
If it had texting, Uber and maps I’d buy it. Really unfortunate

~~~
war1025
It has texting. They are developing a "taxi" feature, which I think they'd be
dumb not to integrate Uber into. And they have a screenshot of a "directions"
app.

Maybe still too early to rule it out entirely.

------
kwhitefoot
Why not just get a cheap underpowered Chinese smartphone that can do all the
simple things but has a crap camera and a low res. easily scratched screen, so
you don't bother taking pictures, a weak processor so web pages render so
slowly that they discourage you from browsing, etc.

Then you can donate the remaining USD 250 to a more worthy cause.

------
abjKT26nO8
This website is so light it doesn't work in any capacity without third-party
JavaScript and XHR. Ironic.

------
Animats
Why not just get the bottom of the line unlocked Android phone from Walmart
for $39?[1] Delete the Google crap, install F_Droid and some basic apps.
That's basically what I have, on a Caterpillar Tractor ruggedized phone. No
"social" anything. Base email, Fennic browser, ZANavi maps, Mozilla location
info provider.

Someone could compete with these guys by buying low-end phones in bulk and
reconfiguring them that way. Sell it for $49.

[1] [https://www.walmart.com/ip/Plum-Compass-Unlocked-4G-GSM-
Smar...](https://www.walmart.com/ip/Plum-Compass-Unlocked-4G-GSM-Smart-Cell-
Phone-Android-8-0-Quad-core-8MP-Camera-ATT-Tmobile-Metro-Rose-Gold/905106532)

~~~
dsr_
You're confusing "people who want to get rich" with "people who want useful
products".

"People who want to get rich" are a significant subset of the HN population,
and they are downvoting you because they remember Dropbox. You'll recall that
Dropbox was met by "people who want useful products" saying "oh, I can do 90%
of that with rsync".

Your solution is probably excellent for someone who knows what they are doing,
but it won't make a lot of money, and it won't sell to the kind of status-
conscious fanatic minimalist who always needs a new toy to prove their
minimalism.

In fact, there are lots of caution signs around this product's website
indicating that they aren't actually very good at the technical parts. I
wouldn't be at all surprised to read a teardown showing that this is a low-end
Android phone with an e-Ink display running a single shell program around the
underlying dialer, SMS and alarm functions.

~~~
Animats
I get the mindset, but this is round 2 for the "light phone", round 1 having
flopped.

I could see a low-end product which shares the phone number of the bigger
phone. Something carriers could offer as a promotional item and a backup.
"What do you do when your iPhone is in the shop for a broken screen?"

The amazing thing is that you can get 4 processors, a screen, 8GB, and a
camera for $49.

~~~
paulcarroty
The non-amazing things: no updates and tons of spying services inside - why
this phone is so cheap.

~~~
forgotpwd16
Because you aren't paying for a brand name could be another reason.

------
starpilot
You can also get this mini basic phone for $20:
[https://www.amazon.com/Unlocked-Bluetooth-Phones-
BM70-Earpho...](https://www.amazon.com/Unlocked-Bluetooth-Phones-
BM70-Earphone-0-66inch/dp/B07VVQHVYK)

------
mesozoic
I don't get it. While it is better than an iPhone by having a headphone jack.
Still who is the market here? Someone who doesn't want to use a phone much but
can't pull themselves away from it or cutstomize an android phone to not
bother them.

------
austenallred
For that price you might as well get a Palm. It’s tiny and runs android, but
I’m keeping one as a minimalist phone for when I don’t want to use my iPhone -
[https://palm.com/](https://palm.com/)

~~~
dhruvkar
I used the tiny Palm phone for a few months as my primary phone.

The battery life was terrible, even with a battery case, it lasted 2-3 hours.

I'd love a phone like that which had a proper battery life.

------
DaveSchmindel
This entire endeavor smells like an exercise of reaping good design. When I
received the first iteration, I was excited only from the moment of unboxing
to the moment of my first call.

I truly enjoy the sentiment and message behind this product. IMO though, at
the rate they're going and in the direction they're headed, a consumer is
better off with existing products that have been offering what Light II does
for decades.

[https://www.amazon.com/Snapfon-Senior-Unlocked-Hearing-
Compa...](https://www.amazon.com/Snapfon-Senior-Unlocked-Hearing-
Compatible/dp/B005CWSF3U?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_1)

------
markvdb
E-ink screen, but the battery life is bad. I can go about a week with mine.

~~~
ebg13
The 950mAh battery is extremely small.

~~~
vinay427
It's still very low even given the battery size. The updated Nokia 3310 has a
traditional display with a 1200 mAh battery and is rated for a standby battery
life of 31 days.

At 950 mAh that would be just over 24 days. I would expect an improvement in
battery life with E-ink.

[https://www.nokia.com/phones/en_int/nokia-3310#details](https://www.nokia.com/phones/en_int/nokia-3310#details)

~~~
megablast
Rated for means nothing. They always put out bullshit claims. Would you like
these guys to lie too?

~~~
vinay427
I'm curious why you take the battery life claim about the Light Phone at face
value. My assumption is that most every company tests in optimal conditions
that users won't achieve in real life, so I think it's generally fair enough
to compare between two manufacturer claims given that we don't have side-by-
side comparisons yet.

------
hinkley
I'm curious to see what would happen if someone made a simple phone that
behaved as an access point. Hook up my watch, my tablet, bluetooth headphones,
let it stay in my pocket most of the time.

~~~
martin-adams
That sounds exactly like a portable Wi-Fi hotspot which creates a hotspot from
a 4G sim.

~~~
hinkley
Doesn't do anything for my watch though, and can you make calls on those? I
thought they were data only?

~~~
lozaning
A little google voice magic, or any number of other SIP providers and apps
will have you making calls to POTS numbers over just a data connection very
easily.

~~~
hinkley
No. I and 98% of the world just want to make calls, not start a project.

There's a reason Linux is not ruling the desktop, and that there is it.

~~~
lozaning
Turns out that such functionality is actually supported natively by the watch.
[https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203032](https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT203032) as long as as you have any of these carriers:
[https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204039](https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT204039)

Though to your point it did take me a bit of ducking to figure this out. Seems
extremely straightforward once you know it exists.

------
abakus
$350 ? really?

------
vghadge
I use nokia lumia 800, OS updates not supported so only factory apps when I
feel like not to be disturbed. I call forward to this phone and keep primary
phone switched off.

------
fastball
My thoughts:

1\. Needs a bigger screen so that texting in portrait is possible / texting in
landscape allows you to see the convo. 2\. Needs data and basic data-driven
apps - google maps, spotify. Any apps that aren't addictive and are used every
day seem like they should be in _any_ modern phone, even those intended to be
minimalist.

I "need" things like banking on my phone, as well as email realistically.

~~~
war1025
Sounds like you aren't the target market. If I hadn't just last week finally
deactivated my dumb phone from 2011 and bought a cheap Motorola, I'd seriously
consider this.

Literally all I want from a phone is the ability to call / text for
coordinating near-term meetups with people, and the ability to receive / send
calls in emergency situations.

Unfortunately, they don't make phones like that anymore.

I have my new phone set in battery saver mode with everything deactivated
except the calling app, the texting app, and Facebook Messenger. The battery
can last four or five days with this configuration, which pleasantly surprised
me. Still can't match the two weeks I'd get out of my old dumb phone though.

~~~
Hamuko
Sounds like you aren't the target market either, since you want a phone that
only does phone calls, text messages and Facebook Messenger, the latter of
which the Light Phone does not do ("it'll never have social media!").
Furthermore, it's not even gonna have a better battery life than your
jerryrigged phone since it apparently only does about a week on standby due to
its tiny battery. And they expect you to pay $350 for this.

Also, I have no fucking idea when you say that "they don't make phones like
that anymore", since Nokia still makes the 3310. Costs like 20% of what the
Light Phone costs, does phone calls, text messages (and probably Facebook
Messenger since it has a Facebook app) and has a 3-4 week standby battery
life.

~~~
war1025
> Also, I have no fucking idea when you say that "they don't make phones like
> that anymore", since Nokia still makes the 3310.

As others have mentioned, most of the phones that do fit the criteria of a
modern dumb phone don't work on Verizon. I had plans to buy the 3310 if they
ever released a 4g version.

> Sounds like you aren't the target market either, since you want a phone that
> only does phone calls, text messages and Facebook Messenger, the latter of
> which the Light Phone does not do

I would happily go without Facebook Messenger, but since my phone supports it,
it's a convenient thing to have access to. But you are right, I am probably
not the target market for this phone.

~~~
Hamuko
> _I had plans to buy the 3310 if they ever released a 4g version._

There's the Nokia 8110 4G (€49), the Nokia 800 Tough (€119) and the Nokia 2720
Flip (€99).

~~~
war1025
Everything I've found says those aren't compatible with US phone networks.

------
holri
With 3rd party JS disabled, I get this opening the link:

"Something went wrong"

Sorry then I do not want to read your content, because this is wrong on your
side.

------
WoodenKatana
I like the concept, looks like the Pebble of phones. But there's something
that bus me. Given that it's "designed to be used as little as possible" I
don't understand why the price tag is 350$. There are other phones with the
same functions that are way cheaper. The worst android phone you can get is at
least 200$ less than this.

------
chopchopgoodbye
I have one of the new models, it's pretty cool. I backed the kickstarter so I
got it cheaper than its listing price. If you find the concept interesting and
don't mind spending the money it's a good option. If you find the concept
interesting and do mind spending the money I'd recommend a 7-11 burner or
prepaid phone

------
ronyfadel
I would love to have a phone like this, but with Whatsapp. People I
communicate with don’t use their phone/sms functions anymore. It has all moved
to Whatsapp. When my iPhone broke down, and I had to wait for it to be
repaired, that was the only functionality I really needed (and maybe Google
Maps) but it more or less stopped there.

------
dreamer7
I've found gray-scale mode to be a great deterrent for constant phone use. It
just makes everything so much more dull

------
bigjimmyk3
I own one of these, and someday when it finally works with my wireless carrier
I might find out if it's as nice as they say. Standby time appears to be ~3
days with no use, but I have not measured it rigorously. It does have wifi and
bluetooth sonic suppose they could add hotspot capability.

~~~
tecleandor
That's not great, specially if you're not connecting it to the cell network.

We had a Nexus 4, IIRC, for our on call sysadmins, that would be always
connected to the network but mostly sleeping, as it only was waiting for push
notifications. It lasted around 4 or 5 days without charging! No software
installed except for Pushover, of course.

------
blunte
If I were going for a less is more phone, I would be much happier with a
traditional "flip" or basic-functionality physical button phone. This will
just be frustrating to use, because it sort of offers what you need, but with
a cramped interface and likely painful interface obstacles.

------
ogre_codes
This isn't much in terms of value or functionality. You can buy a low end
iPhone and just not install any apps and get more functionality and utility. I
guess if you are on the road and need multi-week battery life??? Even then,
it's easy enough to plug into your car outlet.

~~~
Vendan

        The battery life of the Light Phone II is approximately 1-3 days of 'light' regular usage.
    

So yeah, battery life is not that great for what it is...

------
NetOpWibby
STILL waiting on my behind the scenes book I pledged on this Kickstarter
several years ago now.

------
beyondcompute
I like the idea. However, am I the only person who haven’t used an actual
phone for years and is relying mostly on internet messaging services? So we
should get an e-ink phone with only messenger apps installed and simplified UI
to switch between them.

------
JohnJamesRambo
"It looks like a new thermostat." \- my girlfriend when I showed it to her.

I'm the perfect customer for this phone (had a Nokia 3310 3g recently) but
this is perhaps a little too minimal for even me. Still looking for a
replacement for my iPhone SE someday.

------
mkettn
That is a nice take on digital minimalism, but in my opinion you could also
just delete most of the attention-sink-apps and enable black-and-white-screen
on the smart phone you're currently using, instead of buying yet another
device.

------
3fe9a03ccd14ca5
I always wondered why no major phone manufacturers thought to stick an e-ink
display on the back of the phone.

I’d love to leave it docked on my desk while it scrolled through useful
displays, such as calendar, time, weather etc.

------
ppod
The use case for this is people who want to take it to a social occasion and
show it off, while using a regular phone with email, music, podcasts, maps,
uber, and social media for most of their daily lives.

~~~
Sabinus
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

Be kind. Don't be snarky. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive,
not less, as a topic gets more divisive. Have curious conversation; don't
cross-examine. Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other
people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something.

------
im3w1l
Aww.. I thought this would be about the
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photophone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photophone)

------
ngngngng
I would love a dumb phone, except then I lose my ability to make encrypted
calls and texts. Can't stand uncle sam being able to read anything I text my
wife at any time of the day.

------
kaliali
I would buy this for $200, not $350. I still use a Blackberry and look for
phones like this but I won't pay $350 for it.

All I want is a phone I can call, text, and listen to audiobooks.

------
keymone
The price is $50 for what I’ve seen there. And that would still include a
pretty sweet margin.

Can’t imagine who’s buying it for $350. Either fuck you money or virtue
signaling?

------
presiozo
I like the concept, but I think it needs some work on the design and
functionalities. I feel it's a bit too basic for my needs.

------
fock
so, if this runs android: how about extracting the launcher and putting it on
a 40USD Android Go device... Just kidding ;).

But really: if you buy aforementioned device, don't sign into google play, get
your apps from f-droid, enable b/w-mode and disable the browser you've got
yourself another light phone for 40USD+1h of your net income.

------
shaklee3
With e-ink I was expecting a very long battery life, so only 1-3 days suggests
the radio is still a huge battery drain.

~~~
cl3misch
... or the full Android software stack.

------
crimsonalucard
It's like a flip phone but marketed towards these posers who want to "get
away" from technology.

Just buy a flip phone.

------
huangc10
I'd rather buy a Supreme brick than this. All jokes aside, I'd rather buy a
Nokia phone than this...

~~~
Hamuko
Any Nokia phone is a better purchase than this thing.

------
Antoninus
6 months ago I considered going full dumbphone. The best option was an
unlocked jiophone 2 with KaiOS. Unfortunately, spotify has not been ported
over yet and the OS is not as polished as I'd like.

I settled with Samsung's mid range line released this year. The Galaxy a20,
a30 and a50 are great value for the price when rooted and stripped of all the
bloatware.

~~~
spookthesunset
You want a dumb phone but you want Spotify? Somebody else wants a dumb phone
but they want YouTube. Somebody else wants a dumb phone but they want candy
crush.

Congratulations. This is why dumb phones don’t exist. Nobody actually wants
them.

~~~
Antoninus
Smartphones barely beat the feature phone market share in 2013. That is not
too long ago. Q1 2019 saw a 40% market share with high adoptions in India,
Africa and Latin America. This is because in developing countries, data is
expensive.

I believe you know better than the multiple investors putting 80m into KaiOS
to enable whatsapp, facebook messenger and hopefully spotify on features
phones.

People smart phones, they just can't afford them.

[https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/kai-
technologies](https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/kai-technologies)

------
megablast
The light phone. Here is a 100mb webpage plus useless background video
introducing our minimalistic concept.

~~~
TheGallopedHigh
Otherwise known as marketing; which is often useful for selling products not
necessarily aimed at tech users.

~~~
crimsonalucard
Don't think tech users are better than other people. They fall for marketing
tactics too.

------
drivingmenuts
Why not just have one phone, instead of a Global phone and a North American
phone?

~~~
paxys
A single chip which supports more LTE bands is more expensive.

~~~
Hamuko
Is that an issue when the phone is $350 already? They're clearly not aiming
for low-end users here.

------
elitan
Just uninstall the apps on your current phone that are distracting.

------
fake-name
"Light" phone.

Homepage requires multiple 3rd party JS libraries to work.

Helloooooo hypocrisy!

~~~
klyrs
I'm with ya, it crashed my phone's firefox.

------
raghavgoyal14
$350 for a modern Nokia?

~~~
fragsworth
To be fair, it's probably not subsidized by hoarding all of your data.

~~~
Hamuko
How much data is the Nokia 3310 hoarding?

~~~
ebg13
None in the US because it won't work here.

~~~
terinjokes
The Nokia 3310 3G definitely works in the US, supporting 850, 900, 1800, 1900
bands. They're readily sold at your local Target and Walmart.

------
kienkien
Overpriced dump phone.

------
b34r
Paltry battery life for such a minimalistic device.

------
csuki
seems a bit pretentious to me. not much use for it either, as there are far
cheaper ways to avoid constant phone use.

------
darthvader101
maybe its for people who are kinda looking into disconnecting from the world
but still be partially connected. I'd never buy this

------
ge96
chonk, e-ink displays are I think a hard sell compared to snappy responsive
regular phone displays

~~~
blululu
Agreed. Sadly the latency on eInk is still way too high. Smooth animations,
scrolling and transitions are a large part of what makes touch screen based
smart phones so easy to use and compelling. There are, perhaps, alternatives
to the design patterns used for touch screens, but the light phone does not
really do much in this area.

------
cmoscoso
Well, the page is really white!

------
badrabbit
Removable battery?

