
Wanted at Chinese Startups: Attractive Women to Ease Coders’ Stress - kercker
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/24/business/china-women-technology.html
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Kluny
As a female programmer, I wish I could have a programmer motivator. It's been
a tough week.

~~~
objectcreate
As a male engineer I'd be happy to spend half the time going around and
chatting, listening, massaging and organizing games to help colleages / team
mates destress and feel energized and motivated.

For hetero orientation pairs, opposite gender, can have added destressing
effect, if people are skillful at creating a good mood. Effective way to relax
and raise morale.

But because that connotes "sex", the Western moral hysteria / panic mode sets
in, and people automatically make it mean "bad"/"abusive"/"counter-
progressive". Christian legacy programming? They think that makes them "free"
but I think constraining narratives around sex to a limited set of negative
connotations, just binds them to endless suffering and frustration.

This moral panic is probably partly a psyop. Sexual drive is such a powerful
drive, any group who can manipulate / control / or redirect / re-narrate that
en masse holds powerful sway over the population. If you can make people hate
themselves for their own gender, skin color or sexuality, you have really
succeeded in warping / manipulating them for something that should be so
positive / neutral. That frustration for the individual that results can then
be directed toward whatever would seem to provide the answer. In effect, this
psyop can yoke people to a particular cause, such as "progressive liberal
politics" that seem to provide the answer to the invented "axes of evil" of
"sexuality / skin color / gender", and pretend to lead the way to a "promised
land" of equality (? heh) even while dividing everyone into groups and getting
them to fight each other. The ultimate aim of all this is probably just crowd
control for the population, by "drawing off" excess frustration into such
fruitless causes, you can ensure the activation energy of "revolution" / mass
civil unrest is never tipped. Also the frustrated will seek other outlets for
their stymied desires, so rise in entertainment / consumer culture offering
short-term thrills like sucrose, endorphins, etc.

In light of all this -- the 1980s quest for status ( mirrored by current
modern day Chinese quest for status ) is more healthy. But without a
totalitarian state, and inundated by new technologies that empower
individuals, how are you going to keep a society under control in a democracy?
Democracy / politics has to end up being a very compelling reality-tv
entertainment, and people must "spend" most of their excess energy on
fruitless pursuits, to ensure they don't spend it on something such as
"overthrowing the state".

And when you want to take the yoke off people, they fight to keep themselves
bound up in it. Insisting they are free. Such is the depth of their
manipulation.

~~~
KKKKkkkk1
> As a male engineer I'd be happy to spend half the time going around and
> chatting, listening, massaging and organizing games to help colleages / team
> mates destress and feel energized and motivated.

As a gay engineer, I doubt that if a man came over and started doing those
things to you, you would feel energized and motivated. That hopefully gives
you an idea why workplace norms in the modern world are the way they are.

~~~
yorwba
As an aromantic man, I do feel more energized and motivated after a chat or a
card game with my (mostly male) colleagues. I'm somewhat averse to body
contact, so I wouldn't make use of a massager, but so long as it's just an
extra perk like a Googly ball-bath (they have those, right?), I don't see the
problem.

Not being sexually attracted to someone doesn't mean that their company won't
be refreshing or even uncomfortable. I think that's much more a matter of
personality, and gender is only a secondary factor in whether you'll find
someone likable or not.

~~~
braindouche
As a gay woman engineer, I've always had the policy that, while I'm at work,
any part of you that touches me, I get to keep.

What ever happened to that fad where an animal shelter would release a flock
of puppies in your office for an afternoon? I'd be into that.

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programmarchy
Whereas the West sees male domination in tech as a problem and intervenes,
China caters. Which approach will end up being more productive? Does it
matter?

~~~
wpietri
The rising labor force participation of women has been a major factor in total
productivity growth. If we had continued to pursue male domination, for
example, we'd have a lot fewer doctors. (Or a lot fewer of something else
valuable.) And there's still a lot more to be gained.

There is also the fact that women are people, of course, and don't deserve to
be "dominated" any more than anybody else does.

~~~
pravda
>The rising labor force participation of women has been a major factor in
total productivity growth.

Source?

Doubling the labor force has certainly been great for keeping wages down.

Good for corporations, not so good for workers.

~~~
wpietri
This is classic Lump of Labor fallacy:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy)

The amount of work to do is not fixed. More people working (and at higher
levels of value, also a feminist goal) means more value created for us to
share in.

As to the societal benefits, there's a lot out there on it. You can search The
Economist for "women labor force participation" for literally decades of
articles on the benefits of it. But specifically for societal economic growth,
here's one study of many:
[https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/sdn/2013/sdn1310.pdf](https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/sdn/2013/sdn1310.pdf)

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tejtm
Assuming "Coder" is code for male, may eases the stress of being one of the
tens of millions of males for whom there is no female to meet and marry.

~~~
whooshee
Coders make a good salary and have a normal schedule, they will usually find a
partner. But nowadays I guess more and more young people will choose to live
alone.

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z3t4
1\. Have your engineers work 13-14 hour per day. 2. Bring in a hot feemale for
$950 a month to cheer them up. 3. Profit

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z3t4
Attractiveness is all about how much time and effort you spend on it. But
what's most frightening is our bias on appearance, and how we treat people
different based on how they are dressed/makeup. No wonder (hot) people, women
in general, spend several hours every day just to look good.

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BuckRogers
If that makes someone comfortable, why not offer it. It’s not illegal other
than a thought crime in the US.

If offered a good salary in a foreign country, I’d weigh different perks like
this.

~~~
cimmanom
Because it makes someone else uncomfortable?

~~~
BuckRogers
How does it make someone else uncomfortable? The man wants it, and the woman
wants to do it. Who are you to tell women what's ok to do with their lives.
That's just cultural imperialism.

~~~
cimmanom
What if it makes the man's female coworkers uncomfortable?

~~~
BuckRogers
It doesn’t, said that in the article. She did ask for a male, and I see no
reason why she shouldn't get one. Besides, a man on staff that is has stronger
hands for back or foot rubs would probably be appreciated by the men as well.

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awakeasleep
How could they consider this an even remotely inclusive way to build a
workplace?

~~~
laurieg
Gender equality is not nearly as big an issue in Asia compared to the west.

My experience is in Japan, but I could summarise a common opinion as "Men and
women are different and should be treated differently".

Recently, when asking for a recommendation for a tax credit accountant, I was
asked if I would prefer a man or a woman. The question was very matter of fact
and not thought of as unusual.

To make things clear: I think this is nonsense and should be called out when
it comes up.

~~~
toephu2
I think objectcreate has a lot of good points.

Did you know in China almost no women change their last name to their
husband's upon marriage (and it's been this way long before feminism even
became a thing in the West)?

Whereas today in the "progressive" West it is still expected that women change
their last name to their husband's and most do.

~~~
yorwba
But children usually bear their father's surname, and if they don't, there's
the assumption something's wrong with the father's side. (E.g. his name is not
known, or they divorced before birth.)

I think it is silly to try to compare across cultures by looking for the
presence or absence of specific customs, because you'll always be biased by
your awareness of practices in your own culture, and ignorance of those in a
different culture.

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whooshee
In some Chinese companies, they hire male models to send flowers to female
staff.

[0][http://bbs.wangjing.cn/data/attachment/forum/201703/08/13401...](http://bbs.wangjing.cn/data/attachment/forum/201703/08/134016t1ca6dadc3hv3h93.png)

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pravda
This shows a great wisdom.

The Chinese culture is an ancient culture and we have a lot to learn from
them, if we can see beyond our arrogance.

~~~
michaelvoz
Is this serious? I can't tell anymore...

~~~
cobbzilla
username is "pravda", I think it's safe to assume sarcasm.

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randyrand
People are diverse and morality is diverse. As long as everyone involved is
happier with this then it should continue.

