
Facebook Apologizes to LGBT Community and Promises Changes to Real Name Policy - Uhhrrr
http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/01/facebook-apologizes-to-lgbt-community-and-promises-changes-to-real-name-policy/
======
Uhhrrr
I can't figure out how they think they're going to verify that "Sister Roma"
is really being used by Sister Roma.

Also, this combination of sentences makes no sense: "Part of what’s been so
difficult about this conversation is that we support both of these
individuals, and so many others affected by this, completely and utterly in
how they use Facebook. [...] First, it’s part of what made Facebook special in
the first place, by differentiating the service from the rest of the internet
where pseudonymity, anonymity, or often random names were the social norm."

So they utterly, completely support pseudonyms, except when they're
pseudonymous, anonymous, or random?

~~~
andrewfong
The test is whether you use that pseudonym in real life, where "real life"
generally means "not the Internet". Note that there's an implicit judgement
here that online interactions are fundamentally different from offline ones,
which might not necessarily be accurate, but that's been part of Facebook's
approach to social networking from day one.

I have no idea how'd you actually enforce this though. I can't think of a
robust way to tell whether "Star-Lord" is how you introduce yourself on a
first date or just your preferred pseudonym while playing video games.

~~~
lizard
Anecdotally, I picked up the nickname "Lizard" from friends well before I
started using it online.

During my first year or so of college there were several people who admit to
only having known me as "Lizard" as that was just how some friends introduced
us. Facebook was still fairly new and small then so (I don't believe) there
were many people trying to find "Lizard" on Facebook, but aside from a comment
in my About (which would only help after they already found me) there was no
reference to the only name some people knew me by.

I don't use the nickname offline much any more (though it's useful in busy
restaurants to avoid confusion with other people who share my real name, and
can prompt some interesting stories or conversations too) and I'm fairly
certain the people I still interact with offline all know my real name.

Would/Should Facebook accept this nickname? Still? It doesn't really matter to
me any more as I'd just assume be able to keep separate identities unless I
want someone to know both. But for some people this nickname is synonymous
with my real name and I will respond equivalently to either.

------
vlucas
I guess this is a win for the LGBT community, but I can't help but think that
this is a bad thing for Facebook and it's users overall. This could lead to
Facebook losing it's main edge in having "trusted" and "verified" users who
actually are who they say they are. I guess we'll see how this pans out in the
long run.

~~~
notahacker
I get friend requests from fake accounts several times a year, and every
German I know on Facebook uses a pseudonym. "Likes" can be bought for a cent.
One of my longest standing friendships is with a pub (it's outlived the
friendship with David Beckham, someone impersonating one of my lecturers, and
a flatmate's cuddly toy).

I didn't have too many qualms about giving a P2P loan to someone with a real
looking Facebook profile under an obviously jokey pseudonym.

I'm not convinced Sister Ray and her extravagantly dressed friends who
actually use their identities are really in danger of bringing the system to
its knees.

~~~
seanflyon
> I'm not convinced Sister Ray and her extravagantly dressed friends who
> actually use their identities are really in danger of bringing the system to
> its knees.

Sister Ray and her ilk are not bad actors, so of course they are not going to
bring the system to its knees. The concern is that facebook will not be able
to distinguish between bad actors and people like Sister Ray.

------
dmckeon
Cox> Our policy has never been to require everyone on Facebook to use their
legal name. The spirit of our policy is that everyone on Facebook uses the
authentic name they use in real life.

The current problem is Facebook's assumption that people have _one_ "authentic
name they use in real life".

Real people may choose to be known by various names in various contexts,
without intent to defraud or to be a "bad actor". They may or may not want
those names to be connected among the different contexts.

Facebook has hundreds of millions of users, but apparently is not yet able to
realize that the simple policies that worked well for small homogenous
populations (US college students) do not scale to to huge heterogenous
populations (the rest of the planet).

Facebook, allow users to be known by whatever various multiple names the users
like. Allow them to connect those names, or keep them separate. Put whatever
measures in place you need to to support that (perhaps a per-user waiting
period that doubles with each additional active name or profile, or allow
people to register names or profiles for a small fee, perhaps ~US$5 or $10
times number of names per person.)

Expect some gaming of the system, and come down hard on bad actors and
abusers, perhaps using a names registration fee to make dealing with bad
actors costly for bad actors, profitable and easier for Facebook, and not a
complete pain for people who are false positives or troll targets.

Imagine the revenues when millions of gamers want to register their in-game(s)
persona name(s). This has worked well for domain registrars, what are you
waiting for?

~~~
RangerScience
[http://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-
programmers-b...](http://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-
believe-about-names/)

------
Smudge
The issue of real name policies has come up many times before, most noticeably
with Google+. From what I've seen, people tend to fall into these three camps
(guess which one I fall into):

\- I don't get it. Why does it matter. Just use your real name. It makes
everything easier for the rest of us.

\- I get it. Pseudonymity is important. But it's not worth the added noise /
decreased quality on this site, so take it elsewhere.

\- I get it. Pseudonymity is not only important, but something that should be
freely available to anyone who wants to participate in this service. We all
have different identities depending on context, and not everyone maps their
legal name to all (or any) of their identities, so let's be sure to make room
for those other identities too.

That's obviously an overgeneralization. But the response from camp #3 is
definitely what caused Google to backtrack. It's interesting that Google's
policy (only permitting your legal name or something close to it) was
originally more draconian than Facebook's, who seem to only care that the name
you use is the on people would know you by in "real life."

------
mandeepj
Please help me with this real name thing. How facebook or google will know
whether the name I just entered is my real name or not?

~~~
jleader
They don't know, they guess, based on some heuristic algorithm.

In Google's case, their algorithm informed my son that the name on his birth
certificate is not a "real name", and forced him to pick another one (he kept
his real name as his nickname, and chose his more popular middle name as his
first name, keeping his real last name). According to
[http://www.babynamewizard.com/voyager](http://www.babynamewizard.com/voyager),
his real first name is the 280th most popular in the US.
[http://howmanyofme.com/search/](http://howmanyofme.com/search/) says there
are nearly 10,000 people with his first name, and a bit less than 4,000 with
his last name in the US. But Google says it's not his real name.

~~~
bdamm
I think it's awesome that you named your son Voyager and also gave him a
"normal" middle name.

------
jonah
I really don't get this issue.

It's one thing if you present as your non-biological gender full-time.
(Transgender, transvestite, etc.)

TBH, I haven't been following it closely, but this current issue seems to be
about Drag personas. Totally different.

If you're John Smith at your desk job and Sister Roma on Saturday Nights,
that's a persona. Same as if I did standup as "The Science Guy".

Setup a business page for that persona or whatever. (Unless you're going to
allow anyone to setup any accounts they want to.)

~~~
muglug
Not just about drag personas – it's also about people who might be
transitioning, but haven't legally changed their name yet.

It's about being able to choose how you appear to your friends, which is
something that's perfectly acceptable to do socially (at least in progressive
parts of the US).

~~~
jonah
Yes, as my comment said.

------
Animats
Facebook should mark non-real-names as pseudonyms, and offer the ability to
block pseudonyms. Most of them will be spammers, after all.

~~~
jleader
I would expect spammers to choose names at random from a list of common first
and last names. Though I sometimes see spam emails with "$FROM" in the From:
field!

~~~
greenyoda
The stupidest thing I've seen spammers do (and I see a few examples of this in
my junk mail folder every day) is putting _my_ name or e-mail address in the
"From:" field (sometimes followed by a few random characters).

------
A_COMPUTER
Are they going to let you have two accounts, because a lot of people with
these names don't really just completely discard the other one? I doubt it. I
don't think there's a real fix because the problem is facebook's business
needs, not their name policy. They want to know the one physical body behind
the name, and at least for me, I don't even want Facebook knowing my two
identities are the same person.

------
bdcravens
Does this apply to anyone with a strong identity/persona? Street names? 1337
names?

~~~
bertil
They talk about having a document, presumably by a respectable third party,
with that name. I guess for 1337 names, having a conference invite under that
name would count. Concert or stand-up flyers for a persona would make sense.
I'm less sure about how to have street names written.

In middle school, a student's nickname was “Simpson”; it's hard to explain,
but he genuinely looked like he had yellow skin, expression-less face and
spiky hair. In a court yard of a hundred student, everyone knew instantly
which kid was ‘Simpson’. No one knew his actual name. When he was part of a
group of kids who attacked me, it felt really odd to make a report listing his
name, even after the headmaster had shown me on the photobook that that was
his civil name. I don't remember if his nickname appeared on the report, but I
guess any documented evidence like that would work.

------
yuhong
I am not for real name policies, but I am for looking for better solutions
than anonymity if possible. I am thinking of startupsanonymous.com for
example.

------
lotsofmangos
Facebook may have dodged a bullet. When the drag queens leave, the party's
probably over.

------
autism_hurts
I appreciate Facebook doing the right thing and showing a "soul" on this.

------
EddieS
I can't seem to understand why people are making such a big issue out of this?
Its just their name, not like end of the world!

~~~
Sanddancer
I come from an emotionally abusive family. Having them lie, ridicule, etc,
were par for the course growing up. I've left them behind, however, have not
changed my legal name for various reasons. Because of this, my family has
stalked me, has lied about there being deaths in the family to try to get me
to talk to them in order to continue their emotionally manipulative bullshit,
and otherwise tried to pull me back into their petty gamesmanship. When I had
a real name account on facebook, they had found me after a week to try to
continue their crap. Being able to be pseudonymous is the only way I can keep
in touch with people I actually care about, even with my family hundreds of
miles away from me.

~~~
jonah
Sad to hear this.

As evidenced by your experience (and may others) this issue is not relegated
to drag queens and any solutions should be available to anyone.

