

Anatomy of long sales letter - paraschopra
http://visualwebsiteoptimizer.com/split-testing-blog/long-sales-letter-copywriting/

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feverishaaron
It's interesting how people divide themselves into two separate camps when it
comes to landing page/direct marketing (which are brothers of the same
mother). The fact is, both longform and shortform work. But why they work and
which context depends on the type of product you are offering and your sales
model.

Long form works best for:

* Simple to understand products which have difficult to achieve benefits (weight loss pills, real estate riches courses). The idea is that once you find an interested party, it is just a matter of convincing him that YOUR SOLUTION is THE SOLUTION.

* The purchase process is single stepped with low time and mental effort involved on the part of the purchaser. (e-download, shipped product).

* It is really hard to sell services with the long form, although its been done. I'd still like to see a good example of a successful longform that sells a service, and analyse it to death.

Short form works best for:

* Complex sales where a conversion means pre-qualification, a phone call, question answering, a customized result (think general contractor), identity check or some other gate to completing the sale. The idea is just to give them just enough benefits that they feel both enticed and think it is low risk to give you their contact information. Almost all B2B sales fit in this category.

* Monthly services with a freemium model, and any other low risk opportunity to kick the tires.

* Items with a low purchase point and low effort checkout (App Store game).

That said, there are always exceptions to the rule, and you should test both
forms of communication if you are unsure.

~~~
JeremyReeves
FANTASTIC comment! :)

Believe it or not, I DON'T only do long-form salesletters so I don't divide
myself into a "long-form-only" camp.

Typically what I do is figure out what the client needs... assess the
market/product,etc... and do 1 or the other to START.

However, if I'm not absolutely positive that whatever form I'm using will work
- I always recommend that the client test a longer copy page versus a shorter
copy page.

All in all... it's not "long form vs. short form".

The bottom line is... you put out all your selling points, and defuse all the
objectives. At that point it can be either long or short.

And you end it right there without any "extra" words :)

That could be 300 words... or 10,000 words. Like you said - it depends on a
TON of variables!

~~~
coryrc
When I read those "long form" salesletters, I can tell they are just stories
written to divide a fool and his money.

Your comment is written in the same exact way. It isn't formal language
(substituting 1 for one, for example), so I assume you write that way to seem
"authentic" and "trustworthy", like you aren't trying to take advantage of
someone. You throw superfluous, vague praises at every chance, hoping to
ingratiate yourself with the "customer". Another annoying thing is how long it
takes to express a short, simple idea -- the opposite of good communication.
Unfortunately, your kind will continue to exist, as PT Barnum was right about
suckers.

Your comment could have been written much more clearly:

I don't only do long-form salesletters so I don't divide myself into a "long-
form-only" camp. Typically I assess the market/product, etc and start with one
form or the other. However, if I'm not absolutely positive that whatever form
I'm using will work - I always recommend that the client test a longer copy
page versus a shorter copy page. You need to put out all your selling points,
and defuse all the objectives. And you end it right there without any "extra"
words. That could be 300 words or 10,000 words. Like you said - it depends on
a TON of variables!

If you had written that, I would not have felt my intelligence insulted.

~~~
JeremyReeves
Here's an idea.

Work on getting a more positive outlook on life in general. It'll get you very
far :)

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nhangen
Written by a direct response copywriter, so it's going to be a bit biased.

I've tested short and long form, and while long form tends to do better for
information products, if you are actually providing something of value, then
usually a short form can work just as well.

Essentially - to sell shit, you need to spend a long time persuading someone
to buy it. To sell gold, you just need a buy now button.

~~~
JeremyReeves
I don't think it's biased at all.

I do agree that long form tends to do better for information products.

However, it also does better in 90% of cases, as well. As I mentioned in the
post... it does NOT do better in EVERY single case.

You're "essentially" comment is absolutely wrong... and TOTALLY biased after
you just said my post was biased.

It depends on the market maturity, the branding of the company, and MANY other
factors.

All in all - all I'm saying is this.

Long copy works in 80-90% of cases... TYPICALLY. It depends on a lot of
factors, and the only way to really know... is to test it with a GOOD
copywriter.

After all... long copy that sucks will always do worse than short copy which
is brilliant :)

Jeremy

~~~
nhangen
That comment is from my own experience. I've sold a bit of both in my day, and
while I don't hate long form copy, I hate pages that look like crap, such as
some of those examples.

Again, I'm not hating on you, or your piece, but the fact that often times
long form copy is associated with horrid design. That's the trend I want to
see disappear.

~~~
JeremyReeves
No offense taken. I'm actually personally re-doing the order form on the 1
example so it looks more "clean".

The design doesn't matter though.

"Pretty" doesn't sell.

Trust me on that one.

What sells is understanding your customer, having a product which gives them
exactly what they need at a fair price, and showing that customer how
different that product is from other similar products.

~~~
nhangen
I guess it depends on your customer.

~~~
JeremyReeves
EXACTLY :)

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blhack
This is what terrifies me so much about being a [mostly] sole-founder.

If I saw something like this in my mail, I would immediately throw it away and
probably have a few thoughts about how out of touch the person who
commissioned it was.

But if it really does "convert like crazy", it means that any wisdom I have
about marketing (and most of the wisdom given out by fellow geeks, designers,
and most marketers) is almost entirely wrong.

~~~
ahi
I think the long form marketing works on the lower half of the intelligence
bell curve. This probably excludes much of a programmer's social circle.

~~~
paraschopra
Yep, if your target customer base includes people who religiously consider
such letters as scammy (and I agree most programmers would do so) then it is
probably a bad idea to use long sales copy.

~~~
JeremyReeves
Perfectly said Paras.

It's all about knowing your market, giving them something they're familiar
with, and then BEING INTERESTING :)

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bmr
We laugh at people "on the lower half of the bell curve" who use the "length
equals strength" heuristic to evaluate long-form letters, but the same thing
happens in these comments all the time.

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macournoyer
FWIW, I A/B tested a "long" sales letter with a cleaner, shorter and nicer
looking one (imo) for my info product targeted at programmers.

Long: <http://createyourproglang.com/index2.html> Short:
<http://createyourproglang.com/>

I've let the experiment run for a few months and the results were never
concluding, ~50% each the whole time.

My guess is that most of my buyers are pre-sold by affiliates, or via word of
mouth, and don't read anything. Any other interpretation greatly appreciated.

~~~
JeremyReeves
1 thing I noticed is that the longer version is REALLY cramped and a lot
harder to read than the short version.

I'd suggest making a lot more white space in the longer version for easier
reading.

The shorter version also has a headline, the longer kind of does but it's not
noticeable.

Keep running tests - you'll find a winner! :)

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DanI-S
Nice article on an unattractive but effective technique. I like how it almost
takes the form of a long sales letter itself!

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Hates_
My concern with the long sales letter approach is how relevant it is to web
apps. Mail order books, courses I can see the benefit, but with a web app, why
write lots of spiel about a product someone can start using straight away with
a trial account. I am at constant battle with my business partner over this as
personally I don't believe it is the right way to create a conversion with web
apps (How many successful webapps can you name that take the long sales letter
approach?), where as he takes a more traditional info-marketing approach based
around selling courses/books/seminars and wants to apply those techniques to
our startup.

How does a long sales letter form compare to an approach of "Get the user
using the product as quickly as possible", with a few bold benefits outlined,
a huge "Try Now" button and not commitment to buy. Of course this is something
that I should A/B test myself to really find the answer.

~~~
jeremydavid
Even with a free trial, the purpose of a long sales form is to explain why
APPNAME.LY is superior to all the other competing products and get you to try
it out.

Look at Basecamp (<http://basecamphq.com/>). They have a tremendously
successful webapp, and their landing page is long enough to clearly explain
the benefits and uses many of the features commonly found in direct mail/mail
order advertising.

~~~
Klinky
The thing is they have professional graphics, high profile clients, high
quality video testimonials & upfront pricing. The website is actually pretty
free of gimmickry. While it is long the actual text is only about 3
paragraphs. Also you're on their homepage, which is more trustworthy than your
e-mail inbox.

There's a pretty big difference from Basecamp's website vs someone trying to
get you to buy "Forbidden neck pain reliever that the pharmaceutical companies
don't want you to know about!!" or a cheap saw made in china that will
probably break after a month and cost too much to send back for the Money Back
Guarantee*.

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jamesgeck0
> The best thing a person can do is turn skimmers, into jumpers… and jumpers…
> into book worms. That’s why it’s important to have fun, exciting, engaging
> copy.

As a book worm, I can't stand long sales letters. Bold, flashy highlights and
random formatting all over the place interrupts the flow of the text and is
hard to read. The copy would have to be pretty darn engaging to make me put up
with that.

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wmboy
It seems the long sales letter is slowly being replaced by video sales
letters.

Personally I think video sales letters would be more effective but they also
have the inherent problem that people viewing the page at work (or other
similar situation) won't be able to see the video (unless they bookmark it and
view it later which is unlikely).

I think combining a mixture of the short sales letter, video sales letter and
long sales letter would be a good catch all. Show a clear call to action Buy
Now button above the fold with a few simple bullet-point benefits and a sales
video. Then below that you can continue on with the long sales letter for
those who still have pre-sales questions.

~~~
JeremyReeves
They're not being "replaced"... but video letters typically do help
conversions.

And yes, great ideas about mixing it up.

That's the KEY to all of this. You don't know exactly what will work best -
the answer lies in testing it out! :)

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GBond
Related to this is the "Underachiever Method" and the previously discussed
thread on the "400k/yr Parrot eBook guy"
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=516215>

The long form is particular popular with this market targeting method because
"ugliness" doesn't matter especially if you position the product as a ultra-
niche subject matter authority.

I'm surprised to see that the article doesn't mention that the long form also
benefits from SEO juice (more word, better chance of google rewarding keyword
context relevance).

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netaustin
The long sales letter is the Internet beachhead of the pitch man. Maybe these
kinds of sales letters work for some products. But Jeremy knows that he's
signaling on Billy Mays (he says so himself), and that people who wouldn't
ever buy from an infomercial wouldn't buy from a page like this. I cannot
fathom the unhappy circumstances that would have me check "YES! I'd love to
work with a copywriter who can make my life EASY and profitable instead of
stressful and broke!" box.

~~~
paraschopra
The copy he writes wouldn't work on you but that's the #1 rule of marketing:
don't project yourself on target customer. If you don't _like_ long copy, it
doesn't mean your customers won't like it. That's why stress is on A/B
testing.

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alex_c
I've often tried to figure out how to write good descriptions for iPhone apps,
and I've never really found any good resources. App descriptions seem to be
all over the place, but some of the elements in long sales letters seem to
make their way in (the most visible being social proof in the form of listing
good app store rankings or review quotes).

Does anyone have insight into this? How well does the long sales letter format
translate to the app store?

~~~
tomwalsham
Long-form copy is really slanted towards selling high-cost products,
especially intangibles to less-informed markets. You start with a vision,
expect skepticism, bring the viewer round to your idea and then hit them with
a pricepoint that by this time is hopefully lower than they've been led to
expect. They can then buy with confidence that their money is being well
spent.

With impulse buys, which is what many apps are, you really don't need the
middle level of countering skepticism. You are looking to encapsulate the
vision of the app in a short and compelling pitch. Most apps lack the depth to
provide the material for long-form copy and you may well lose target market by
giving too much and losing attention of the skimmers. Furthermore, consider
the negative associations many have with such type of copy, and the
correlation of those people with the tech-enabled app-market.

Regardless of your opinion of Moeed's use of ShowHN for a non-product here
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2275703>, his landing page shows about
the level of detail I would expect to see in ad-copy for an app. Just try to
picture how you would extend that in order to sell the concept further - if
you've run out of ideas, you've hit the level you should be at.

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tluyben2
Designers are not the only ones who 'hate' these kind of letters; most people
I know would hit back immediately without checking out the page when
encountering 'the deck'. But they do work though; I've tried them and people
(whom I don't know?) seem to click & buy.

~~~
JeremyReeves
Yep, exactly.

It all depends on what gives you the highest conversions. It's really as
simple as that.

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kiubo
The article seems to generalize quite a bit. The effectiveness of a letter
like this I imagine would depend quite a bit on who the target is.

~~~
JeremyReeves
Thanks for the comment.

Yea it's hard not to generalize since it's only 1 article, ya know? I tried
being as specific as possible without turning it into a 30 page article :)

And yes, you're absolutely right... and hit on something most people don't
understand.

It all depends on the target market! ;)

