
Iron Age Celtic Woman Was Buried in a Hollowed-Out Tree Trunk - diodorus
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/iron-age-celtic-woman-was-buried-hollowed-out-tree-trunk-180972773/
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theclaw
Reminds me of a story from my home town about a woman found in the trunk of a
wych elm tree in the 1940s:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_put_Bella_in_the_Wych_Elm%...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_put_Bella_in_the_Wych_Elm%3F)

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chiefalchemist
> Given the fact that the pair were both buried around 200 B.C., the Office
> for Urban Development suggests it is “quite possible” they knew each other.

Certainly fascinating. But why - in the context of science - do they have to
make unsubstantiated statements like this? It's unnecessary. It dilutes the
standard expectation of what actually constitutes science. Is it any wonder
the general public oscillates between no trust and confused?

Leave the TMZ'ing to TMZ. Leave the BuzzFeed'ing to BuzzFeed. Please.

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txru
I think that's a pretty reasonable shorthand for saying that two separate
archeological sites overlapped in time, place, and culture, and which makes
comparisons/differences between them more immediately interesting.

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chiefalchemist
That's my point. It's adding a story arc where there is none.

Unless there is evidence the two grave sites overlapped (in time) then the
"theory" proposed is bad science. Again, it sets an unreasonable expectation.
Science has enough problems right now. Using faux storylines isn't going to
help.

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txru
I don't think this is at all as serious as you think. I don't think this is
the Zurich Office for Urban Development spinning a cute little narrative, I
think it's more similar to the Corded Ware culture [0], where scientists
identified a lot of clayware buried in corresponding times and places, and so
theorized that the people that make them communicated and shared a culture.
The timing, and the coordination, suggested that those people corresponded to
the Indo-European spread from near the Black Sea into western Europe.

In taking two things (two pieces of clayware, or two people) uncovered with
similar features, you are usually able to extrapolate more information than by
holding each one in perfect isolation.

What's more, there's not a whole lot riding on this. The office said "Isn't
this interesting, that two archaeological sites are so close in place and
time". That usually doesn't happen, particularly that far back in time. If the
Office had editorialized that they were lovers, or best friends, I would agree
with you, but this is just saying "We can date them to a very similar time,
and to a very similar place. They are intrinsically linked, and should be
treated as being more close together than separate."

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corded_Ware_culture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corded_Ware_culture)

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BuckRogers
Fascinating facts to learn of, but sites like this one and LiveScience tend to
interject too much extra content that is unsubstantiated. Adding in the bit
about Caesar coming in, when he wasn't on his high horse for 150 years after
these people died. Just because some general time period was 2,200 years ago,
doesn't mean there isn't a significant gap between the ages. 150 years can
change a lot. It's the time between the age of slavery in the US to today.

Then the bisexual (/poly?) suggestion and hedonistic remark. Citations or
substantiation? Very unprofessional but I suppose these are online authors
from no specific literary tradition. It was a Roman source that recorded a
consort to a Celtic king that supposedly told Emperor Augustus's wife, “we
consort openly with the best of men. You allow yourselves to be debauched in
secret by the vilest.” Which is the hedonist? I'm American, of now-distant
European Celtic & Germanic tribal extraction and while a non-expert, am
knowledgeable enough in the subject to see when someone is interjecting their
personal nonsense into an article.

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pteraspidomorph
It seems some references for homosexual relationships among the celts come
down from contemporary authors including Aristotle, however I can't find
anything specific about La Téne.

[https://books.google.pt/books?id=TCvoj1efp8UC&lpg=PA18&pg=PA...](https://books.google.pt/books?id=TCvoj1efp8UC&lpg=PA18&pg=PA18#v=onepage&q&f=false)

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BuckRogers
I'm not saying there wasn't homosexuality.. that's what Saudi Arabia claims
for their nation. Homosexuality has an evolutionary purpose, always existed
everywhere and always will. Homosexuality is not a slur, weakness, or failure.
It was the exaggerated nature of the characterization.

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SuddsMcDuff
> "Homosexuality has an evolutionary purpose"

Could you elaborate on this? I'm genuinely interested to know, it could
fundamentally change my view on homosexuality.

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BuckRogers
Must preface that I'm a non-expert, this isn't my area of expertise, I'm just
a curious person that seeks truth, and works as a programmer. I could be
wrong, but when I find convincing evidence or logic that I am, you'll see me
singing a different tune. If there are any credentialed evolutionary
biologists among us, please, correct or affirm the following.

As with a lot of human traits that sprung from evolution, today it's not as
clear as it would've been. In tribal structure, we needed more caregivers to
children. Having a few homosexuals uninterested in breeding assisted with
survival of the group. Everyone around the world needs additional caregivers,
members of the tribe died early often. Someone had to raise the next
generation, and the risks of dying were plentiful. Beyond famines and death
from conflicts, shamanistic medicine only, no scientific medical care and
definitely no vaccinations or antibiotics. Basically, people dropping like
flies. The unpredictable death rate required a proportionally larger quantity
of caregivers than breeders.

Further, any trait that exists in ~5%+ of the population over time is regarded
as having an evolutionary purpose. Which homosexuality meets the definition
of. For example, I'm color-blind, while no longer very useful (other than map
spotting, which the US military does use color-blind folks for), it was an
advantage for hunting in a snowcovered environment by removing unnecessary
data for the brain to process, resulting in spotting prey faster and
increasing reaction times. It's difficult to provide hard evidence for
evolutionary traits, folks that want to dismiss it due to discomfort always
will, but this trait was shown to appear in Ice Age Spain and spread from
there. Caregiving for the tribe goes much further back in time, hence
homosexuality being far wider reaching. Neither gay folks or color-blind folks
are deserving of disdain though, simply because we're the products of hundreds
of thousands of year of human survival and those traits are not as relevant
today. All humans have traits that aren't perfectly suited for sitting behind
a computer all day, or the modern age. It's a shame we haven't evolved to
consume glyphosate, or breathing the air we're polluting without dying of
cancer.

An addendum that I feel is necessary. You could seek out a scientist who has
dedicated their entire life to studying this topic to confirm/deny my claims,
or a professor at a local university who has essentially done the same and
dedicated their professional lives to this topic to learn more. That's what I
would do if genuinely curious and wanted to know more, not hit up DuckDuckGo.
The ability of those folks to cut through the noise in their field is
something a search engine doesn't offer. No different from an experienced
programmer searching on software. There's an alarming trend of people today
dismissing expertise and credibility as traits without merit. Experts on
topics like this are still the go-to source. I'm just a layman in comparison.
While I did not and will not spend more time digging up citations for my
claims here, it is logical and based on prior readings. Neither is it my
prerogative to convince every homophobe among us that being homosexual is more
than OK, I do hope everyone who reads this chooses to embrace our gay brothers
and sisters. It's illogical not to.

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hestipod
I'd love to be disposed of in a cool and eco-friendly way. Give the nutrients
back to nature so to speak. I'd be fine with just being tossed in a bog etc
and letting things eat away. But rules and all...even the most basic no frills
cremation is something like 1500usd which is obscene in my view. I find the 5
figure events with ornate sealed caskets to be ridiculous.

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mruts
You could have a tibetan sky burial and be cut into pieces of meat to feed the
vultures. It’s probably pretty cheap too.

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ggm
Old people suffer muscular and joint pain. They are prescribed drugs like
Voltaren. Voltaren is diclofenac.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_vulture_crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_vulture_crisis)

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gingabriska
This was a big issue in India I remember but "cattles" instead of "human"
bodies.

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ggm
Yes. I think the drug was being used in animal feed

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tempguy9999
I have heard of boat burials, where the body is placed in a boat, thogh not
necessarily set adrift, just placed within. The obvious (possibly too obvious)
interpretation is that it's the vehicle to take the person to the next world.
Based on nothing at all I wonder if this is a symbolic form of a boat burial.

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hprotagonist
[https://www.sparknotes.com/nofear/lit/beowulf/prelude/](https://www.sparknotes.com/nofear/lit/beowulf/prelude/)
for one of the more famous depictions in literature.

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tempguy9999
I wasn't thinking of ship burials (though thanks for the beowulf pointer, I
didn't know that, and in returns here's an allegedly eyewitness account of one
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_funeral#Ibn_Fadlan%27s_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_funeral#Ibn_Fadlan%27s_account)),
but something much smaller and older.

There was a report of a discovered boat burial on doggerland, on land (before
doggerland flooded. That would have been at the end of the last ice age). I
can't find it now.

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hprotagonist
Possibly Sutton Hoo?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutton_Hoo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutton_Hoo)

I know about the neolithic villages currently under silt in the english
channel, but that's about it.

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tempguy9999
Sutton hoo is saxon IIRC. No, the villages/communities you mentioned are the
ones that were drowned when the ice melted - before that the UK was much
larger and joined to the continent
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland).
That was the boat burial area I meant. I did dig but can't find it, sorry.

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themodelplumber
I was thinking it sounded like the way a witch might have been carelessly
disposed of. Fortunately the illustration cleared that up. This does not look
like anything just thrown together.

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hprotagonist
Far too high status for anything careless.

It's more or less anachronistic to talk about 'witches' in the Iron Age,
certainly in the modern sense that connotes "naughty bad not-christian women
spellcasters".

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thaumasiotes
Evil spellcasters are a familiar concept in every known culture, present or
attested.

I don't really think it's a stretch to use the modern word "witch" to refer to
this universal concept.

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Retric
Magic is a rather culturally specific idea.

Africa and Europe had a lot of cultural exchange, but Australian Aborigines
and Native Americans had wildly different views. That’s not to say
similarities did not exist, but the more universal the idea the more vague it
must be.

Aka, Evil people with power is more universal than the ability to cast a
persistent curse.

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jacobolus
Some Native Americans absolutely have a (pre-Columbian) concept of witchcraft.

Source: my godmother is a Maya shaman.

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tempguy9999
Well, that's not something I read every day.

Could you liberally expand on this if possible? Stuff like, what does she do,
what is notable about her worldview, what's her view of other worlds (in
christian terms, hell/heaven, in norse terms valhalla and the world tree etc),
what can we on HN learn from her. Anything else you'd wish to add.

(I've got the popol vuh, just wish I could find time to read it).

Major TIA.

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billconan
Reminds me Xinjiang xiaohe cemetery in China,

[https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedition/ancient-mummies-
of-...](https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedition/ancient-mummies-of-the-tarim-
basin/)

They seem to also use tree trunk

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gerdesj
Celtic?

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phaemon
Yes, Celtic. The Celts were mostly on mainland Europe at that time. You can
find more details in that most scholarly work, _Asterix the Gaul_

~~~
nickserv
Also in Caesar's book about his campaigns in Gaul (oddly enough there is no
account of a tribe with a magic potion):

[https://pages.ucsd.edu/~dkjordan/arch/romans/BelloGallico1.h...](https://pages.ucsd.edu/~dkjordan/arch/romans/BelloGallico1.html)

