
Ask HN: How do I get freelancing projects? - alinalex
Hey there,<p>I recently decided to leave a startup after my vision differ from that of the founders and now I want to freelance to pay the bills while I&#x27;m trying to build something myself.<p>Do you have any tips and tricks from your own experience that could help me get some gigs? Any answer is highly appreciated!<p>Also, I&#x27;ve mostly done websites and themes in Wordpress, so I guess this area could be lucrative for me now.<p>Thanks!
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frits1993
Start building a client base by doing small jobs. Personally I went around
looking at forums for people who needed bugs to be fixed on their website. Set
your price as low as possible to higher the change of you actually securing
these jobs, and then perform excellently.

If you perform well enough, you'll find these clients getting back to you with
bigger jobs. Two years after doing exactly this for a period of only a month,
I am still working for a large percentage of these clients, and their contacts
to whom I was recommended.

Getting the engine started is the hard part here. As soon as that's done you
simply have to focus on keeping the quality of what you're doing high.

~~~
alinalex
Great insight. Thanks a lot! Could you tell me please what forums did you use?
Something like reddit?

~~~
frits1993
Reddit might work, although I have never tried that. Depending on where you
are from, different sites might give you different results. I suggested that
being a Dutchman myself, I would build a better relation with Dutch clients,
so only went on looking for those.

That "location filter" might have reduced the competition, something which
enlarges the change of you getting the job. Finding a job at a place where
thousands of others are trying the same might be hard as a starter.

------
git-pull
Freelancing has died out for me and everyone else I used to freelance with
(this was circa 2004-2008). Here are the reasons I've seen that played a role
in the climate (and it's not this virtuous market force here, the people who
hire/fire are cargo-culting each other and narrowing their potential and
access to talent as well):

1\. A great deal of the work has turned to agencies. The kind of people who
liked freelance worked ended up seeking employment with them. The agencies
finds juicy longer term projects that span 3 months to a year that can bill
out a whole team.

2\. The general attitude toward working with a dev without locking them in is
now frowned upon. Startups want a person on site and full time. (Even if a lot
of startups putter out in < 3 years, they still have the impression they're
hiring for the "long haul").

3\. Further saturation by upwork and other services. The kind of people
offering gigs are miserly micromanagers who want very cheap labor from out of
the country. The kind of people who count every penny and are not trying to
attract talent with snacks and pool tables anyway (Despite them being often
atrocious at nailing down specifications, often ends up getting lower quality
work and building a lower quality product. You don't hear about there success
stories).

4\. Freelancing isn't seen as a thing a seasoned developer fits in, in the
current economy. I know I see threads here on HN about consulting, but really,
there's a sampling bias and a lot of wishful thinking.

What I write above isn't iron rules. Just part of a cultural shift in hiring
I've witnessed. Maybe I've been hanging out in the wrong places. I see good
remote work as a unicorn.

~~~
dsacco
I think it's a matter of specialization. If you're going to develop software,
you're right, it's very unlikely a large project will be handed off to one
freelance developer or even consultant. That's ideal for a team, billed out by
an agency.

On the other hand, expertise in specific domains, like database optimization,
security, architecture, agile methodology, etc where the work is more advisory
and results are more report than hands on code - that is still going intensely
strong, even for individual consultants.

~~~
git-pull
Again, maybe I've just been hanging out in the wrong places.

> On the other hand, expertise in specific domains, like database
> optimization, security, architecture, agile methodology, etc where the work
> is more advisory and results are more report than hands on code - that is
> still going intensely strong, even for individual consultants.

If it's that strong, where are all the job board postings? Where are all the
linkedin profiles of these consultants and freelancers?

Maybe a couple exist. I've yet to be convinced there's _any_ market that
someone could sink their teeth into for freelancing in tech. I'm not trying to
push my perception. I'm hoping to see some sign; evidence.

I think employers are pushing back on outside, individual opinions and gigs
and putting up more barriers, more tests while resumes flood in. Recruiters
and HR's perception is they can be slow to hire and fast to fire anyway. That
in itself, the fact you can just press a button on StackOverflow or LinkedIn
and be one of hundreds of applicants is a reason why snapping up a freelance
gig is hard.

Employers are drowning in applicants. It's known they can afford to skip over
a potentially good candidate due to the numbers. Even _Cracking the Code
Interview_ mentions it. Freelancing is a fast hire, relative to the battery of
tests a full time, salaried position has.

One more time, I'm not trying to be right or push a perception. I'm a good
coder. I have a hearty, hearty portfolio. I get calls back sometimes hours
after I sent resumes in. Still, no one wants to snap me up fast even if its
obvious I can produce results. I get a number and told to wait in line. Again
and again. Even startups that aren't de-risked that have <2 years of runway
are just looking for django developers are arrogantly flipping through
candidates like they're large corporations that'd have job security. Based on
what I've seen, they are resolutely filling solely fulltime positions.

But lets say I did score a gig or had a network developed, I'd still perceive
it as an exception to the norm. I'd be happy to see proof of a tech area that
has a distinguished pattern of snapping up people at an hourly rate that's
realistic for a person with no established network, but adequate ability, to
pursue.

------
RikNieu
If you don't have any personal connections related to your current job, I'm
guessing that you'd need to do some cold calling/emailing(with examples of
your work) to any potential clients and agencies.

And then there's also those business connections meetups. You could attend a
few of those and see if you can find anyone who needs help.

------
mattbgates
This is a bit long, as it is my story, which I tried to keep short, but it
might help guide you in the right direction. Lets get started.

The very first website I did was for an organization that helped Ethiopian
children and I did it for free to gain experience. That experience would lead
me into a career of web design. This website was done in WordPress.

The next project I charged a little bit more because I knew more. My boss
called me into his office one day and told me he had a friend that needed a
website because my boss had heard I was interested in expanding my practices
of web design. He said, "Don't be afraid to charge."

So I figured I didn't know a crazy amount but whatever this guy requested of
me, I could learn it. I ended up charging him $250 for like 10 pages. I
remember spending more hours than I would've liked on it, so if we were to
average out the price, I probably made next to nothing, but again: it was
experience. The fact taht I could charge someone and someone paid me money to
make them a website was the most amazing thing ever! This website was done in
WordPress.

I then would revamp the entire website for the company I was working for at
the time with the help of a coworker, who also become my fiancee. For obvious
reasons, since we were learning and working somewhat on company time, we
weren't paid for the project, other than being at work. This website probably
boosted sales and helped increase company exposure. Before this website, the
boss was using Flash and thought his website was amazing. It really wasn't.
The website was done using HTML5, CSS, and Javascript.

Then I had this crazy idea that I wanted a popular website for myself and I
had always wanted to create a website, but never had any idea for what I
wanted. I was fascinated with jobs, careers, and the workplace. So I created
the website and kept working at it. Hours and hours spent on it and many hours
are still spent on it. The website is
[http://www.confessionsoftheprofessions.com](http://www.confessionsoftheprofessions.com)
and this would teach me everything I needed to know about WordPress to be
comfortable and confident enough to actually do business with any company I
came across, no matter what.

I began to freelance by looking on Craigslist for people who needed websites.
I figured I would go cheaper than the "average web developer". If you read,
most are charging like $50 an hour or more. Me? I began charging $12 an hour
at first, rising to $15, and now I'm between $20-$30 an hour 8 years later.
Why is my pricing cheaper? Because I target individuals and small businesses
who really can't afford to pay thousands of dollars for a website. In the
beginning, my average price was around $350 - $500, but as my clients got more
demanding, I had to raise the price of how much I charged for websites because
they are requesting customization and it was constant back and forth in emails
-- in other words: after all the emails were done, that was hours already gone
there, and I hadn't even started on the website! It took me years to figure
out a pricing system I was comfortable with: In the beginning, you lose more
money. But as you begin to become comfortable, you learn to charge a certain
amount that is fair for both you and your client. Trying to "become a
millionaire" off your client is not possible. Most likely, they don't have
millions of dollars, so drop the greed and just be fair. They are trying to
make a living, you are helping them do that, and in return, they are helping
you out.

For every client I meet, I always say these words: "When it comes to pricing,
I will always be fair with you and I expect you to be fair with me." I've
never had issues with clients paying ever. They don't question me. They don't
ask for explanation. I do provide an invoice of work performed. But I don't
question their professions and I don't expect them to question mine.

I also tend to be that web guy who picks up the pieces because other "web
guys" will just disappear or they keep putting a bandaid on it rather than
fixing the actual problem. I can only imagine they did this to keep getting
paid. Me? I don't care.. I like to get paid by doing additional genuine work.
Not charging the client to pretend I'm fixing their website just to get paid
every month. I aim to alleviate my clients from having to spend so much money
on a web guy.

Believe me, when they need it, they will turn to you for all the professional
advice and help they need and they will pay for it. I have one client who I've
built 5+ websites for -- I usually charge her about $850 - $1000 per website.
But I mainly make my money through customization: "Hey I want this, I need it
to do that." Working on those projects warrants more money because those
requests are often beyond what WordPress plugins do. I also charge a minimum
of one hour so I've always been the one to clean up and get rid of the
problem.

So just a short brief summary of my client list:

1) found through Craigslist: some lady needed a web guy to run her multi-
WordPress website -- she ran a franchise and had about 30 franchisees. So I
got extra work on the side from those 30 clients.

2) found through Craigslist: I then met a guy whose web guy went off to
college and he is an engineer who made a golf training aid that helps people.
I've since redesigned his website, which I charged him about $1000 for and
about $400 or $500 for yearly maintenance costs. (WordPress updates, adding
pages, changing a few things here and there -- nothing major-no SEO, no
marketing, no advertising, etc., but I do offer him advice on any of that
stuff - I just won't do it for him, unless he needs it and it comes as a
separate invoice)

3) found through word of mouth: I moved across the country and my fiancee was
working a side job and a guy she worked with was the web developer for this
woman who ran a "Paint and Wine" business (the most popular in my town), and
he was just tired of keeping up with her website, as he was moving out of
state, and needed to find her a web guy. That's where I come in -- he had
actually designed the software, so in the beginning, I was charging her a
fortune to try and fix his product that he designed in PHP. I knew PHP
somewhat, but it kept breaking no matter what I did. I said to my new client:
"Listen, I can keep charging you hundreds to thousands of dollars, or we can
fix this one-time. I will charge you for my labor and the product, and we can
be done with it. And you'll save a lot more money this way." I ended up
charging her like $1500 to install an amazing calendar plugin, which did
everything she needed, though she had a ton of requests, and with that, I made
at least an additional thousand or two with her. If it was any company
charging her, it would've been a lot more, but it helped me out, and I charged
what I thought was fair. Nowadays, I just update her website every few months
and send her an invoice with at least an hour minimum of work.

These are just a few of my clients.. I have a few more, but not worth
mentioning in this story. As I have acquired clients, I also built myself a
portfolio which I display on my "freelance business website" just to show off
the work I've done and show potential clients that I am an actual web
developer with a ton of websites under his belt. I also have everything on my
LinkedIn page as well. It surely helps build trust and seeing that many
websites, they are less likely to question your expertise.

I still get a few clients here and there through word of mouth mostly, but to
be honest, I'm exhausted from managing clients, so I no longer seek them out
or solicit on Craigslist anymore. You are not your own boss. They are your
boss and when they email you, they expect an answer within a few hours. And
they expect you to fix any problems they have immediately. Its wonderful and
great for extra money in the beginning, but it gets old. So over the years,
I've grown tired of maintaining a freelance client base and prefer to just
focus on my primary job and my side projects.

Definitely not trying to deter you! It is a great start and I encourage you to
do it: start small and learn as you go. As you get more experience, you can
certainly warrant charging more for your services. Good luck!

~~~
alinalex
Wow, really useful answer there. Would you like to keep the conversation going
on email and ask you other questions? My email is
alin.rauta@thebusinessclub.ro. Thanks!

~~~
mattbgates
Email sent.

