
I am a successful software dev but I have a serious drinking problem - user249
I made a couple million and then lost it all, including the wife and kids. I muddle along now making enough to pay the rent. I don&#x27;t want to end up like Phil Katz of pkzip fame, but I&#x27;ve come close. I don&#x27;t know why I am posting this except as a cautionary tale -- stop drinking when you are young. Really. It doesn&#x27;t get better.
======
philiphodgen
There is an astonishing variety of comments here. Frankly this is not a vi vs
emacs thread.

I wish commenters here would understand that the OP's glide path is currently
aimed at one of two outcomes: insanity or death.

If the OP is reading the thread (and I would guess he is not) I would implore
him to ignore all of the comments except those from people who have had up-
front and personal experience with the damage from alcoholism.

A flippant comment -- just so you can look clever on HN -- may condemn the OP
to a dismal fate. Cut it out.

OP, seek the seemingly harder way. It will turn out to be the softer, easier
way. This means a new way of living (on the one hand) or a slow painful death
on the other. Let the others here on HN plait their shit. You must either
change or die.

Disclaimer: Anecdotal personal experience sample size for this topic is > 1.

~~~
justinhj
Well put. I find comments of the nature "I know a guy who just cut down on his
drinking and now he's fine" the most dangerous. Sure, some drinkers can do
that but there are many more who cannot safely do so.

------
mattm
I have struggled with porn at times and have done a lot of research on
addictions. I also have a couple friends who are alcoholics. IMO, Gabor Mate
has been the best resource I have found on understanding addictions. His
theory is that addictions start in childhood due to some kind of constant,
ongoing stress. It could be something like abusive parents or severe bullying.
When we find something that temporarily relieves the stress, our body latches
on to it and doesn't want to let go. Personally, I've found that understanding
addiction and the addictive cycle has helped me a lot. From meditation, I've
also become much more aware of my body sensations and understanding the danger
periods when I am getting stressed.

After I did a 10-day Vipassana meditation retreat, I put together
[https://www.programmingspiritually.com](https://www.programmingspiritually.com)
to try to help other developers that face some of the same issues. Email me if
you're interested and I'll sign you up for the course for free.

~~~
karon
Gabor Mate heals heroin addicts with two powerful psychedelic plants:
Ayahuasca (DMT) and Iboga. I have been to a couple of Ayahuasca ceremonies in
the past year, and I can report that - among its many awesome effects - it
effectively resets your inner emotional "firmware", helping you cope with
stressful situations and addictions much better (I had instantly quit smoking
after the first ceremony.)

Vipassana meditation take a slower route, but some say more thorough - it
transforms your self into being more reflective, more appreciative and less
judging. I've yet to try it out on a 10-day retreat, but even people who
practice half-hour daily buddhist meditation praise its beneficial effects on
mental and physical well being.

Both Ayahuasca and Vipassana are great routes you can take to battle your
addictions, not only to alcohol or tobacco but also many kinds of pain.

~~~
awshepard
> even people who practice half-hour daily buddhist meditation praise its
> beneficial effects on mental and physical well being.

Wanted to lend some weight to this. I've practiced mindful meditation on and
off for a year or so. I've never hit an hour or even half an hour at a time,
but I will say it is fairly effective for recalibrating your mental state even
with just a few minutes a day. I find myself much more patient, accepting, and
clear-headed when meditating regularly, which was exactly what I was hoping to
accomplish. I occasionally find myself re-centering and focusing on breathing
while not meditating - just a reflex that develops with the practice, and even
if its effects are strictly physical (eg more oxygen to the brain), it still
feels good, mentally, to get that shot of clarity throughout the day.

I can't speak to its effects on addiction, or other forms of pain, but I would
definitely recommend some form of meditation for everyone.

~~~
baby
I don't know about meditation, but when I write in the morning I feel like I
can think more clearly and express myself more easily during the day. Might be
a form of "re-arranging" your brain.

~~~
bitcrusher
It's a well known technique... Stream of Consciousness writing in the morning
is very effective at clearing out the mind before the day starts.

Some Artists use this and call it "morning pages" (Check out "The Artists
Way". )

------
seanccox
Have you sought help? Alcohol is an addictive chemical, and if you have a
dependency, you don't have to overcome it alone.

If, on the other hand, you are like me an you simply drink too much, I can
share how I got the situation under control.

First, I threw out a lot of the liquor in the house (I kept the good whiskey
that I was already saving for a special occasion). Then, I stopped going out
to bars as often and, to a certain extent, avoided people I typically drank
with or found ways to socialize without being around alcohol. I also took up
yoga in the mornings. I like yoga, but if I drink the night before, I won't
feel like waking up for it. So, I remind myself before I go out to a pub or
meet friends that if I drink, I'm screwing up my routine.

That combination has helped, and it's gotten me to a place where I can go out
on a Saturday night, get a nice buzz going with three or four beers over
several hours, without reaching that 'fuck it' moment where I start doing
shots and smoking cigarettes till dawn.

~~~
mason55
_> I also took up yoga in the mornings. I like yoga, but if I drink the night
before, I won't feel like waking up for it. So, I remind myself before I go
out to a pub or meet friends that if I drink, I'm screwing up my routine_

Fitness did it for me as well. Lifting weights, running, krav maga, all of it
sucks when I'm hungover. Plus it's easy to tell that my performance suffers
which devalues the time in the gym. I hate knowing that I'm sabotaging all
that time I spend working my ass off. When drinking has an immediate impact
it's much easier to decide not to do it.

I started out by cutting out drinking during "the week" (defined as Monday
through Wednesday as Fri/Sat/Sun are obviously weekend days and everyone knows
Thurs is really the true start of the weekend). As I picked up more fitness
things it pushed out drinking time. I still go out and drink but now it's once
a week instead of every night.

~~~
yiedyie
Yoga worked for me, it cured my porn addiction in two ways: the girls that
went there helped me have a normal interaction with women, and I had a more
relaxed spine which, I don't know why, helps copping with addiction.

------
mkhattab
I'm an escapist. Whether it's movies, youtube, video games, literally anything
that is unproductive, I'll spend an inordinate time doing. Luckily, I don't
drink or do any drugs, but I might as well since I'm pissing my life away. It
is as if I'm stuck in neutral. However, I do make just enough money to get by.

The odd thing is that I can't pinpoint why I'm this way. It wasn't always like
this. I guess reason doesn't matter at this point.

Anyway, I don't think my post adds anything useful to this discussion, but
good luck.

~~~
skore
> [...] I don't think my post adds anything useful to this discussion [...]

After talking to a friend of mine about his issue and how it reminded me of my
own struggles, I tweeted the following:

> "I get stuck browsing reddit and I hate myself for it". Consider that the
> problem may not be reddit. The problem may be you hating yourself. [0]

Procrastination is often a lightning rod. Try working on the lightning part of
it instead of blaming the rod that may actually be saving your life from
spiralling further into darkness.

[0]
[https://twitter.com/skore_de/status/425743423211962368](https://twitter.com/skore_de/status/425743423211962368)

~~~
bung
I don't really get this analogy, could you maybe give an example?

~~~
skore
Say you are working on a project, but you can't seem to make progress. At some
point, you tab over and read HN or reddit for a while.

Now you have two choices: A) Hate yourself for it. B) Not hate yourself for
it.

Lightning struck - you were unable to continue working. There are a number of
ways to deal with that, a number of lighting rods to take away the pain from
the impact. Some work better than others. Some might even make more sense than
others. Procrastinating may not make the most sense.

But the problem is not that you were procrastinating, the problem is that you
couldn't continue to work. In procrastinating, you were _coping_. Your brain
told you in rather strong terms: "This is currently not working out and there
is no way this is going to get better if we continue staring at it. So let's
do something else for a little while."

What you should not do is hate yourself for setting up a lightning rod.
Because hating yourself does not increase your chances of being productive.
Most of the time what it does is the exact opposite - you're simply increasing
the pressure for the next time you get stuck on something. The higher the
pressure, the higher the chance that you will grab a coping mechanism from the
lower shelves of your arsenal.

It's a cycle of self loathing that only has one out: Stop punishing yourself
for not succeeding and instead figure out ways to make it more likely to
succeed. Hating yourself is easy, hating yourself for browsing reddit is
particularly easy. What's hard is helping yourself to enjoy yourself.

------
forgottenpaswrd
Man, first thing: YOU ARE NOT ALONE.

You are not the first human to become addicted, nor will be the only one.
There are people out there that have been in a worse situation than you and
that have gone out of addictions.

You should find those people, meet them and get out of drinking. Over years
you made a path that you have to undo. This will take years, like it took you
to create it.

Your wife and kids did the right thing: to stop supporting your addiction. It
is time for you to take steps.

I have studied a lot of psychology but I can't help you because it would be
like trying to explain quantum physics before learning basic math. But there
is people out there that really know what steps you could take for getting out
and doing great things with your life.

~~~
aestra
>You should find those people, meet them and get out of drinking

I don't mean to be offensive but...

This can work, however it might not work depending on who you find. Many
former addicts I personally know have replaced their drug habit with a
religion habit. They are actively preaching religion at almost all times. This
is probably due to the twelve step programs. If you aren't into religion or
being preached at, you could be turned off by hanging around these people and
thinking that's how your become if you quit, or you need religion to keep you
from drinking.

I just know an addict, he avoids getting help because he believes that the 12
step programs are offensive. (I share the same opinion - however I acknowledge
they work for some people and that's good - I just disagree they should be the
"go to" programs for everyone) He knows AA doesn't work for him, but he
doesn't know there are non-religious programs and people who have gotten
better without religion.

Disclaimer: The following post is entirely my own experience. It might not
reflect everyone's experience. It may or may not be useful. I am just an
atheist who knows many former addicts. I have read the AA "big book" some, and
I couldn't stand how they treated non-believers. They basically said non-
believers can't get better without accepting the Judeo-Christian God. It
quotes the bible excessively. Anyone who says AA isn't a religious
organization is being dishonest or very selective.

~~~
toerojas
Agreed. AA is a religious program, and if you're not religious you shouldn't
do it. It's also not backed by sound medical research, and about 50% of people
drop out after the first 90 days.

What is effective about twelve step programs is the support network you build.
It's important to have friends you can call on when you're thinking of going
to the bar, or just want to take a walk or try something new.

------
zealon
Test for ADD/ADHD. Seriously.

Many people with ADD/ADHD end up in the IT business. Drinking and drug
problems, nicotine and caffeine addiction, high-risk behaviours and family
issues are very common among ADD/ADHD people.

The reason behind this: low dopamine and norepinefrine levels in the ADD/ADHD
brain. Those low levels create a very high reward threshold, so people with
ADD/ADHD tend to unconsciously seek for strong or risky stimulus.

HTH

~~~
Tossrock
I feel like it's not really possible to be tested for ADD as an adult without
just coming across as a person seeking amphetamines. Which is funny,
considering how eager child psychiatrists are to hand out diagnoses.

~~~
WalterSear
If you just want the test, take the Wender-Utah adult ADD inventory. It's
around online.

------
middle334
Throwaway account here.

I was a "high functioning" alcoholic; 35 years in the software business, and
I've worked for companies I know you've heard of, and you've almost certainly
used my products. 15 years ago I was drinking 750ml of liquor a day. Lost a
few jobs, was living in filth, and was about to be homeless.

Long story made short, I got into detox and then AA, changed pretty much
everything in my life that wasn't working and haven't had a drink since. First
couple years were intense, and I still go to AA meetings every week. It's a
maintenance thing. I know I can't drink again.

It can get better, but you can't do it yourself. If you're a heavy drinker,
get medical help in the first few days because withdrawal can kill you. I
think you'll find your employer amazingly helpful and supportive.

[I'm _extremely_ skeptical of solutions that involve other substances. I guess
if it works, it works, but I'm not going to get much out of talking to you
about it.]

------
ciokan
My father died of alcoholism and whatever we said to him or do wouldn't change
a thing in his mind. That's a very strong addiction and he didn't stop even
when doctors told him he's in terminal phase. I believe the change has to come
from inside of you and you must identify where it all started and what was
it's trigger and treat that first.

I have nicotine issues but I stopped smoking in favor of e-cigs. Nicotine is
not that bad, the cigs are killing you not nicotine itself.

I also find doing sport to change my mentality a lot. You start looking
different, you value yourself more when your body changes and you won't want
to go back. Give it a try. Good luck to you!

~~~
ludoo
I'm in your same boat, nicotine is part of what makes me what I am, I feel
totally depressed and unable to function without it (tried, for months).

I followed your same trajectory (cigarettes -> ecigs), then found Swedish
snus, much much simpler than ecigs (no batteries, liquids, etc.), 100+ yrs of
history so no unknown long term side-effects, and all the nicotine you need
plus some. You might want to give it a try, and stop inhaling stuff. :)

~~~
nikatwork
Snuus is linked to mouth and throat cancer IIRC. I'd try prepacked ecigs such
as green smoke, they're more expensive than liquids but very convenient and
same form factor as a cig.

~~~
garrettgrimsley
The parent comment implies that they are worried about unknown potential
health consequences of the relatively new ecig products and would rather deal
with the product with known risks.

------
Jxnathan
I'm just like you -- a developer with an addiction. But my addiction is
different... and illegal. I'm not motivated unless I'm high on fake aka K2. If
you haven't heard of 'fake', it's basically a really strong marijuana with
research chemical additives.

Since gas stations started selling it 3 years ago, I became addicted and when
they were banned from selling it I had to find more. I found it online and
have been ordering it every since. I leave work early sometimes so I can go
smoke it. The only downside I've noticed, is that I'm less sociable (in
person) because of how I look when I'm high (red eyes, droopy eyelids) and it
makes me tired extremely fast. Sometimes I will wake up at my computer desk
wondering when I fell asleep or how long I've been out. I'm sure it's probably
not good on my lungs either, but I smoke cigarettes so I'm used to knowing I'm
harming my body internally. I just love the way it makes me feel, almost like
a reward. I use it as an award for coding something beautiful. "Oh that code
actually worked?! Time to smoke."

I hope we both find help. We need it.

------
terranstyler
Wow, I'm impressed some of you guys share information about your personal
weaknesses. AFAIK this is one of the big steps towards dealing with your
problem, so congratulations already.

Also, FWIW, my wife is a behavioral therapist and already treated a number of
addicted people. She says you learn this kind of "bad" behaviors if, given a
problem, they are the "only" or "most successful" behaviors you know and you
repeat them for a long time.

Treatment then is to identify

\- why you think it's the only behavior you know or the most appropriate

\- what your definition of a "successful behavior" is

\- what are other appropriate behaviors

\- how to deal with situations in which your "bad behavior" usually occurs and
how to substitute the bad by one of the good ones.

Disclaimer: I have no psychological background whatsoever, this is just my
view on the things.

------
shawnee_
The good news is that it's not a hopeless cause, even though it might seem
that way. I used to think that mine was.. totally genetic and thus incurable;
that I was doomed to the same death-by-alcohol fate as many in my biological
family, so why bother?

The only people who can understand are those who've been through it and found
a way to put the brakes on. It's worth testing out.. my test found the world a
whole lot better with the brakes fully engaged at a complete stop, so that's
where I've been for a while now.

There are people out there -- young and old, men and women, wealthy and poor,
god freaks and atheists alike who've done it. Find them, listen with an open
mind and among them there will surely be someone you can relate to who can
help you learn about what worked for them.

~~~
at-fates-hands
>>> I used to think that mine was.. totally genetic and thus incurable; that I
was doomed to the same death-by-alcohol fate as many in my biological family.

Mine actually was and I watched helplessly as one of my parents went to the
brink of death before sobering up. It was a huge wake up call for me. I went
cold turkey and never looked back.

I feel like I was lucky. It happened to me when I was at a crossroads. I had
landed a nice corporate gig, finally had health insurance and a decent pay
check. Everyone I worked with was like me. Young and loved to party. I
could've easily gone either way.

After watching the near destruction of our family, I just felt like this was
waiting for me if I kept going down the path I was on. In a sense, I was able
to see my future before me, and had the wisdom to simply say, "This is not
what I want. This is not something I want to put my future family through."

>>>> my test found the world a whole lot better with the brakes fully engaged
at a complete stop, so that's where I've been for a while now.

Amen brother. Glad you found the strength and courage. Hopefully OP will too
and make a go of it to get clean.

I've been dry for over 10 years and I don't touch the stuff at all, ever. For
me, it was the only way I could and feel confident it wouldn't come back and
get me.

------
stef25
151 days ago you said you'd been clean for a year and a half - what happened?

------
DonGateley
I have 16 years sober after ending homeless and literally in the gutter (no
millions passed through my hands but it was still a lot.) I had been fighting
with it for 20 years watching everything and everyone slip away as you have.
This is better than that.

Yes, it was AA that supported me through it. No, I am not religious now and
wasn't then. I was just willing to suspend disbelief long enough to try
something. I am at a loss to explain why it worked but that doesn't matter.

Despite what many people think AA requires no faith or belief of any kind
beyond acceptance of the fact of your situation.

Many read "Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore
us to sanity" as a statement of belief in a spiritual solution. It is not that
at all, it is merely a hypothetical that is pretty hard to deny on the face of
it. Bill and Bob were really, really smart.

Take that hypothetical, suspend disbelief, do the recommended prayer and
meditation with the caveat "I don't know if this has any real meaning but,
whatever" if you need that and see what happens. That's what I did. I don't
question the mystery of my recovery I just marvel at it. You can choose your
eventual spiritual path or none at all later in the game but you have to have
a game left to play to do that.

In summary, believe nothing but try anything.

------
Snail_Commando
I don't know if you'll see this, but I hope you do.

I've struggled with addiction and I've made decisions that I'm ashamed of and
disgusted with. There was a period of my life when I was also hopeless. I
thought that I had lost everything. In a sense, it was true. (Rather, I
destroyed most of what I had and subsequently lost the remaining pieces.)

Despite all of that, it _does_ get better. It took me far too long to accept
that.

The fact that you are posting here tells me that on some level you are ready
to get better. Recognition of the problem begets hope.

Maintaining an attitude of "it doesn't get better" turns out to be a recursive
function. Since lives are finite, the base case turns out to be total self-
destruction.

At each time step, each recursive call, sustained hopelessness only begets
_more hopelessness_.

Not only do the effects of addiction and hopelessness compound, but you get a
first row seat. You watch the function expand, you see every call. You
literally destroy yourself in a slow, humiliating, dangerous, and deliberate
fashion.

A friend of mine liked to quote a man named Albert J. LaChance, he wrote:
"Addiction is a slow form of suicide- suicide on the installment plan."

Whichever metaphor you choose, one thing is clear: changing your attitude is a
necessary (but not sufficient) prerequisite for recovery.

You are obviously intelligent, so it should go without saying, there is no
avoiding the fact a chemical addiction is a uniquely difficult problem to
solve. Fortunately, it is a problem that a great deal of science is expended
upon. And there are many ways to receive medical treatment.

Tedious self-help meetings and hollow platitudes are _NO_ substitute for
scientifically validated medical treatment. In your case, it is essential that
you have medical intervention while you detox.

(Self-help is very helpful to some, and it _does_ have a reported
effectiveness of (last I heard) 10 - 50% (surely, a study carried out with
utmost statistical rigor!)

Self-help meetings aren't right for me, but I will vouch for their occasional
effectiveness.

Should you choose to follow the self-help branch of your recovery timeline, be
aware that the self-help phase comes _after_ the detox branch. All future
recovery branches of your recovery timeline form after the _medical detox_
node.)

You need medicine and science _right now_!

Alcohol withdrawal can kill late stage addicts. You wrote six months ago that
you attempted a cold turkey solo-detox and experienced DTs. Those suck. They
are also a sign that you need to be extra cautious in your recovery.

When you go to detox, go to a licensed recovery center where a doctor can
monitor you. Usually this means a hospital equipped with mental health
facilities. An ER will suffice if you are out of other options or are having
seizures. You can also go to a rehabilitation center (with a competent medical
staff)! The last option might start your detox and then segue into a 28 day
(or longer) program.

Alcohol is perhaps the most dangerous drug to detox from. (Perhaps surprising
to some, you won't die from heroin withdrawals.)

You can (and should) get medical leave from your employer for treatment. I'm
fairly certain it's illegal for them to deny that. (Since you are a competent
developer, I'm assuming you work at a company with benefits.)

If you do not have health insurance, please contact your local medicaid
office.

Please do this. For your the mother of your child, for your kids. For the
person in the future who you will come across who needs help with their
addiction. But most of all, for you.

\------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This last part is my favorite aspect of hacker news. I get to tell someone
that they are wrong.

I used to have your attitude. I even attempted suicide. By the grace of faulty
nylon, I'm still here.

"It doesn't get better." <\- That quote is factually incorrect. I'm just one
instance of its disproof.

Now, to break Hacker News guidelines with extreme prejudice:

IT DOES GET BETTER. PLEASE, PLEASE SEEK MEDICAL TREATMENT. IT DOES WORK. YOU
ARE WRONG. NA NA NA NA NA.

If you don't post an email in your profile in the next few hours so that I can
talk to you. Via email, skype, phone, whatever. I will reply to my comment
with an email address so that you can contact me when you are ready to talk
and/or seek treatment.

~~~
aestra
>Alcohol withdrawal can kill late stage addicts

This is correct and very very important. Your brain is physically changed.
Alcohol's primary effect is the increase in stimulation of the GABAA receptor,
promoting central nervous system depression. With repeated heavy consumption
of alcohol, these receptors are desensitized and reduced in number, resulting
in tolerance and physical dependence. When alcohol consumption is stopped too
abruptly, the person's nervous system suffers from uncontrolled synapse
firing. This can result in symptoms that include anxiety, life threatening
seizures, delirium tremens, hallucinations, shakes and possible heart
failure.[55][56] Other neurotransmitter systems are also involved, especially
dopamine, NMDA and glutamate.[12][57]. Please do it with professional help, in
a hospital setting. An addition recovery/psychiatric hospital, not a "normal"
hospital. Search online or in the yellow pages. You may have to travel some to
get there. I've seen many addicts withdraw and some have no problem, but some
have life threatening seizures and other absolutely terrible physical
symptoms. I heard one person say "this is the worst pain I've ever experienced
in my life!" Also, not being able to leave prevents you from drinking to stop
the symptoms, they are locked facilities, when you sign yourself in you agree
to be there for at least 3 days. The hospital will provide you with proper
aftercare as well, tailored to your needs. They will also control your
symptoms with medication, depending on what the symptoms are. You get checked
up on constantly. Getting the psychiatric care from the hospital (and
followup) will help you get to the root of the problem - why you drink - and
you can treat that, instead of just treating the addition itself.

All this care is generally covered by insurance.

If you aren't very religious, please skip AA and all the twelve step programs.
They are really offensive to atheists and non believers. (I have read part of
the AA "big book" and had to stop because I couldn't take any more. The
section on "what if I don't believe in God" was especially offensive) Seek CBT
or other non-twelve step treatments. Again, the hospital will help with
finding a program for you and referring you there, often taking care of the
paperwork for you.

You have acknowledged you have a problem and wish to get help. This is the
most important step. Please note: this will not be an easy journey, this will
be difficult. You will have to work for it. You probably will have to change
many things about yourself, including your thinking.

Good luck and I truly wish you the best. I am always happy when addicts get
better, I grew up with an addict parent, and I know what it can do to yourself
and others around you.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholism)

~~~
unholygoat
AA is NOT religious.

It says throughout their books + literature that the only reason it uses the
word "god" sometimes is because it's an already well-known concept of what a
'higher power'.. or 'power/force greater than yourself' can be. That entire
concept, and the basis for one of their steps, is essentially getting you to
stop trying to control the things in your life that you have absolutely no
control over (i.e. I can't control what your response will be so therefor I
shouldn't worry about whether or not you understand what I'm trying to
convey).

There ARE christian based recovery programs but unless you're already a very
STRONG christian I'd stick to any number of organizations like AA or S.M.A.R.T
recovery.

Btw there is no section on "what if I don't believe in God" in any AA
literature... so i'm confused with why you're making shit up when this guy
clearly needs real help & not just your speculation. AA worked for me,
S.M.A.R.T recovery worked for a close friend, and I'm sure other programs out
there have their success stories too.

Using wikipedia as a source for how someone should treat a medical condition
(alcohol withdrawal) is not only misleading but in this case dangerous.

Think of addiction like LSD. For those who have experienced it there is no
explanation necessary..for those who haven't there is no explanation possible
(loosely paraphrased from "Be Here Now" by Ram Dass).

------
goatforce5
Craig Ferguson did a good piece about his alcoholism, a year or two that went
missing from his life, 15 years of being sober, etc.

It's really good, and there might be something in it for you:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZVWIELHQQY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZVWIELHQQY)

------
bobsgame
I struggle with nicotine, caffeine, and porn. I take Chantix and run at the
gym which in combination helps a great deal, but I still relapse now and then
on the nicotine. The others I seem to have overcome completely. I had to
change my life and I also found spirituality, something I had denied due to
insecurity and unwillingness to accept others. I wish you luck.

~~~
yiedyie
I had a gap in my professional career where I didn't code nor worked with
computers very much and I saw a decrease in addictive behavior.

Can we blame programming or isolation when coding, is this a professional
disability?

Too bad that there is no real interest in studying this issues from a
psychological/sociological point of view.

~~~
danieltillett
I think we all have only so much willpower and the more we work the less
willpower we have to resist temptation. I find it much easier to resist that
choc chip cookie when I am not working hard than when I am in the middle of
some huge project.

~~~
yiedyie
Depends what kind of work, I had a gap in my IT career but I worked all this
time, some physical labor and helping and caring for my old-aged grandparents.

Exactly this is my speculation: spending time in front of a computer coding
has some adverse repercussions on your mental health.

If social media does it, why not coding?

I don't think is a willpower issue, I think it is more of a surrounding
environment issue. See:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park)

------
madaxe_again
You're not alone. I live in a world of perpetual insane stress, and
continuously self medicate through the not-so-winning triangle of cigarettes,
coffee, and weed, in quantities that'd make a mobster blush. I've had my fair
share of victory, and I feel more than my fair share of loss, but don't we
all.

I've tried stopping my various vices, but without treating the stimulus loop,
it's nigh on impossible. When I step off the grid and go travelling for a
month... I suddenly no longer feel the need for _any_ of them. This is a huge
relief to me, as it means I realise that this behaviour isn't something
endemic to myself, rather a habituation as a result of the feedback loop I
allowed to grow.

Step out. Do something totally different. My promise to myself that I will do
this, and soon, is the only thing keeping me remotely sane. At the very least,
hit the road for a month and see somewhere new, meet someone new, and see if
you're the same person. You might be surprised.

------
Dale1
As someone who likes a smoke (Weed & Cigarettes) and is currently trying to
lead a healthier life I feel your pain buddy!

Have you ever tried just cutting down? Even just a little bit? I don't believe
in this "Just stop and never drink again" rubbish I think it has to be done in
baby steps.

Anyway, hope you're okay and whatever you do don't go the religion route. It's
a dangerous path to tread especially with the types who run these things.

~~~
philbarr
Not sure about that. I gave up smoking 10 years ago and the only way (after
giving up 100's of times before) was to give up, grit my teeth and sit it out.
Otherwise you're just prolonging the agony.

Your brain _lies_ to you to try and get you to smoke so that it can get it's
nicotine fix...

------
toerojas
I think we've all been at a place where we feel that we're using something a
little more than we should. Please remember that addiction is a behavior. When
you talk with a psychotherapist and get real professional medical help, which
you absolutely should, they will help you identify the triggers that cause you
to drink. Maybe you're stressed and drinking allows you to relax. Maybe you
feel overwhelmed and drinking lets you feel in control. Maybe your parents
were alcoholics (mine were) and your drinking fills a void. Whatever it is,
there's a real reason for your drinking and uncovering that reason is the key
to your sobriety.

Alcoholics Anonymous and other 12 step programs have a high drop out rate
(about 50% within the first 90 days) and are not backed by science, so you
should talk with an addiction medicine doctor first (and go through an
appropriate detox program).

That said, what makes 12 step programs effective is the support community you
build in them, so find some people you feel safe talking with and who you can
call anytime. In fact, find as many of them as you can. You have ~200 people
on HN who took the time to comment, so there's a start.

------
annasaru
It's very hard to deal with such an issue all by yourself. Hope you get
therapy or coaching , something to ease your burden . It can definitively get
better with time. Drinking is notoriously hard to shake off because it is
sanctioned in so many situations for adults. I know this sounds crazy , but
maybe join a group ( Art of Living, Hare Krishna, Sai) where you are forced to
be constantly surrounded by people. These are safe ways of delivering a mental
jolt while being surrounded by empathetic folks.I don't subscribe to them ,
but suggest use them as a tool and it's not hard to shake them once you are
cured) . OR volunteer somewhere in a group that takes your mind off. Sorry I
seem to be hawking Indian spirituality - but these groups that I mentioned
readily accept anyone - and make them feel at home. Am sure other ethnic
communities in the USA also offer similar.. All I am saying is a mental jolt,
and gentle empathetic friends and family can cure , last but not least, a
qualified therapist.

Being part of a group will accelerate your recovery , drain your negativity
and heal. Talk is cheap so I will stop here.

------
fsloth
All my support. I lost my mother recently to alcoholism.

You have identified your problem. You can still recover, but get some external
help!

You are probably aware that there is a very high risk that unless you get
control of your habit you will die of it. Massive drinkers can develop memory
issues - brain will develop lesions, short term memory will become poor. Not
so good professionally. There are several high-risk medical complications that
are likely. You might develop a liver cirrhosis. I hear this is extremely
painful. You might get cancer. Also, painful.

Seriously, terminal alcoholism is something you really, really want to avoid.
My mother spent the last month of her life psychotic in a hospital bed and
before that she basically lost all control of her bowels. Reading had been one
of the joys of her life but her memory became so poor that in the last years
she could not really follow books (she did crosswords, though).

It's just not that you feel shit for drinking, the drink will turn you into a
living husk in the long term. You will probably need psychiatric as well as
physical treament. Get help. Any help.

------
subversively
As another poster mentioned, addiction is about getting away from some kind of
unbearable inner pain. I'll share mine, what I did to get deaden it, and how I
finally healed it. I'm 31 now, have a wife, exciting job, close friends, and
most of all, I'm happy.

My pain comes form severe bullying; I got beaten up literally every day as a
child for three years. After that, I finally got transferred to another
school, but the damage was done.

I used video games, porn and promiscuity to deaden the pain. That distracted
me from starting a career, and I ended up living on the street for six months.

I tried pretty much everything to heal myself.

* What did not work *

\- Religion; God did absolutely nothing to my pain away. Religious counselors
were very judgmental and made me feel worse, and their advice just caused new
problems. \- Cults; They had interesting teachings that were partially very
entertaining, but Ashtar Sharan had nothing but a Galactic shrug to offer my
very real suffering (I would have been prepared to actually believe in Ashty
had he actually helped me, but it was clear that he did not) \- Meditation; It
helped, but only temporarily. When I missed my meditation session the pain
came right back, and I grew distant from the world. \- Yoga; Like meditation,
it did help, but it took such great lifestyle changes I just didn't feel like
me any more. I'm a child of the West, and Yoga is radically different. \- Sex;
obviously, sleeping around is a great distraction and can be genuinely fun,
but when it's addictive it hurts in the end and you draw other people into
your drama. \- Counseling; Wallowing in my pain with a guy who think
everything is a fascinating freak show made things _much_ worse.

* What worked partially

\- Cannabis; Smoking weed actually worked better than meditation to give me
temporary relief. It also made me confused when used heavily. \- New Age;
There is a lot of partial truth floating around, if you avoid the obvious
marketing ploys. "Think And Grow Rich" is pretty good, and so is "The Science
of getting Rich". Basically, the idea is to sit down and think about stuff you
want in detail. It has a similar calming effect to meditation, and can lead to
actual creative problem solving. It did not, however, significantly heal my
hardest pain points. But the idea of "you can reach your goals" kept my
trying. \- Pressure point tapping; EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique) is pretty
good, it can stimulate and permanently remove some trauma. It has its limits
though, and I felt like an neurotic idiot tapping my wrists all the time.

* What really worked

\- Philosophy; Getting a genuine core philosophy and actively deciding my
values gave me a lot of strength. \- Openness; being extremely honest about my
shortcomings with deserving people lead to a form of intimacy that makes the
trauma not seem so bad any more. \- "Taking the pain"; This is not the same as
sucking it up. It is feeling like crap, and accepting that I am feeling like
crap right now, without suppressing it. Practicing this takes the "fear of the
fear" away. This is probably the real benefit of meditation when done
properly, but I didn't need to sit on a cushion to do that. \- Self-
acceptance; This one is the kicker. I no longer slapped my wrist for slacking
on the job, or being not as nice as I could be. Paradoxically, this lead to me
not slacking on the job, and being nicer. It also helped find my niche, where
my shortcomings don't matter. \- Dimethyltryptamine (DMT); An illegal
psychedelic drug, it has been used as indigenous medicine for centuries. This
is the only way I have been able to permanently release my worst and oldest
pain points. I stopped smoking spontaneously after a couple of trips, and have
noticed a sharp raise in my productivity and overall wellbeing.

Obviously, this is just my story, but I hope that some points might help you,
or someone else.

~~~
twobits
"As another poster mentioned, addiction is about getting away from some kind
of unbearable inner pain"

Could you please give ideas how to id that pain?

To be personally specific, my mother never told me positive things, always
comparing me to some perfect ideal, and I also was beaten up for not good
grades. These seem a "perfect" explanation from what I've read, but still I
don't really see them as the cause of my procrastination, addictions, and
feeling tired, sometimes down, and with no energy. ..So, any ideas how to id
my pain, if I have one? Thanks.

~~~
prewett
I'd recommend journaling. It helped me to look at a bunch of feeling words [1]
and write down how I am feeling.[2] Then ask why. Finding the answer to why
may take a while. Also, there are several layers of why. (Ex. "Why do I watch
lots of movies?" "Because it feels sort of relational and kind of numbs the
loneliness." "Why?" "Because it is difficult for me to do actual
relationships" "Why?" "I think maybe I don't really know what love is and so I
act self-oriented." "Why?" "I don't feel like I've have received unconditional
love" [loose example from my own life recently])

After you id the pain, if it's because someone hurt you, you need to forgive
them, otherwise, you'll get bitter. If the pain is old, you may need to look
for the bitterness (expressions of cynicism, complaining, criticizing, and
anger may be good areas to explore). It hurts to give up the bitterness and
anger, but in my experience life is a whole lot more enjoyable if you forgive
people. If I'm honest about it, the times that I am bitter or angry at someone
are really miserable.

If your pain is caused by absence of love, I don't know what to do about that
yet. As a Christian, I feel like regularly experiencing God's unconditional
love is key to fully healing our pain, but I have not walked completely
through that yet.

[1] [http://www.physics.ohio-
state.edu/~prewett/archive/FeelingWo...](http://www.physics.ohio-
state.edu/~prewett/archive/FeelingWords.html)

[2] It helped me to write letters to God honestly expressing how I was
feeling, including about him, it provides a concrete framework. If you do
this, it helps to assume that he is a loving father (since that is what he
claims to be), otherwise you might just transfer your anger to him and end up
equally stuck.

~~~
tripzilch
For people that can't relate to Christianity, and still need some help with
the "forgiving" thing, I can recommend compassion meditation, aka Metta
meditation.

It's not quite entirely secular either, because it often has roots in
Buddhism. Still, you can easily practice it without needing to adapt any
Buddhist teachings. I'm not a Buddhist and I don't desire to become one, but
some of the practice is quite useful :)

I'm just pointing it out because I really agree with prewett, that forgiving
(all sorts of things and people) is a very powerful and positive thing to do.
Much more so than I expected before I practiced Metta meditation for a while--
it was just one of many different series of meditation types/styles we did
with our meditation group. It's had a very profound and long-lasting effect on
me, also quite different/orthogonal to the benefits one gains from typical
mindfulness meditation. Which I can also recommend btw, but the effects of the
compassion meditation seem that more tangible, like it _taught_ me things.
Maybe that's just me though.

------
OfferSavvy
I have been sober for 6.5 years. I was a blackout drinker, and then ventured
into narcotics. I thought that it all used to be fun. I did it to fit in, find
acceptance, feel a part of. But at some point that changed for me. Using was
no longer fun at all, it was more like work. I never felt "just right" but
rather was always chasing the dragon. I got to that place of hopeless despair.
Its a place not unlike where Dante passed in the Inferno with the sign that
reads "Abandon Hope all Ye who enter here". Everyday I would wake up in fear,
and with guilt shame and remorse. When I wasn't using, I was thinking about
it, planning how I was going to get it next, imagining what it would be like-
how it would "Be Different this Time". Always the same torment and insanity.
At that point, i would use to feel numb.. to not feel anything at all. I
didn't want to think about myself, or what I was doing. I wanted to just
escape and not feel.

I turned 21 in rehab, in po-dunk Rock Creek, OH. Only after a few weeks clean,
and the bitter irony of where I was in life, did I have that "moment of
clarity" and have a little bit of willingness to accept that I was powerless
over alcohol, and my life had become unmanageable. AA does not have a monopoly
on recovery, but it has worked for me. We suffer from a spiritual malady, and
our recovery is contingent upon a daily reprieve. "what am i doing today for
my recovery?" I think you are posting this because you need to know, and you
need to hear that everything will be ok. There is hope, I promise that you are
NOT Condemned to live with active addiction. Know that you are going down a
path that is not unique, so many before you, who have done worse things, and
lost more things, and suffered longer have gone been in your shoes. And for
them too, there is way to beat this disease. Anonymity is the greatest form of
Humility. We are just people helping people, from one addict to another, I can
empathize with you, I know how you feel, I have felt those pains before. Call
an AA central office near where you live, send me a message if you need help

------
gjvc
Please find a meeting near you. [http://www.alcoholics-
anonymous.org/](http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/)

~~~
duncan_bayne
No, please don't.

[http://skepfeeds.wordpress.com/2009/02/04/alcoholics-
anonymo...](http://skepfeeds.wordpress.com/2009/02/04/alcoholics-anonymous-
not-as-helpful-as-secular-alternatives/)

There are more effective, non religious, evidence based treatments for
addiction.

Edited to add: Penn and Teller covered AA here:
[http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yUG9dr6SZSY](http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yUG9dr6SZSY)

Also: [http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-
culture/75-years-a...](http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-
culture/75-years-alcoholics-anonymous-time-admit-problem-74268/)

~~~
dave_sullivan
Wow, that Penn and Teller thing is horrible. About 3:30 when they're reading
from the AA book -- "I admit that I am powerless over alcohol" as Teller makes
fun like it's the stupidest idea ever. A lot of the people you'll find in AA
really do need to admit they're powerless over alcohol. That's no joke.

But Penn and Teller readily admit they've never had a drink in their lives (it
was a choice we made, a path we never decided to go down, so screw you losers
that aren't total teetotalling illusionists).

The comments here in general demonstrate a general lack of understanding of
addiction. It's not a choice, it's a disease, and the prognosis is generally
shitty. I'm not saying AA is the end all be all (it's not), but holy shit,
don't be so dismissive of an organization that saves lives by trying to give
people strategies they can use to avoid drinking. I'll put it this way -- if
alcohol (or any recreational substance) is fucking up your life, I don't see
any harm in seeking out a support group of people who have dealt with similar
issues and have gone on to lead normal lives. There's a lot of suffering
people out there that refuse to take that first step because they believe
bullshit like it's something they can fix themselves _with magic_.

And for all the people bitching about how AA is religious -- it's not! The
"higher power" thing is more of a philosophy than a religion. This philosophy
essentially says alcoholism is a disease, individuals are generally powerless
to control it (as evidenced by the lack of an addicts ability to control it in
the past), and they will need the help of some kind of "higher power" to avoid
drinking. What's the nature of this higher power? That's for you to decide. It
could simply be AA as an organization, a higher power that will help with
support to prevent you from drinking. I dunno, there's a few books about it,
but my point is -- it's not religious!

~~~
aestra
>And for all the people bitching about how AA is religious -- it's not! The
"higher power" thing is more of a philosophy than a religion.

Bull-fucking-shit.

I've read the AA "big book" (enough of it that I could stand). It is a
religious book. The part about non-believers is especially offensive - to me.
It quotes from the Bible, it explicitly refers to the Judeo-Christian God.
Many court have ruled people can't be forced to attend AA meetings because it
violates the first amendment's freedom of religion clause.[1] If it wasn't
religious organization, then it wouldn't.

AA can actively harmful - _to some people._ This whole "go to AA if you have
an addition as a first step for everyone" is complete and total nonsense.

If people seek AA, struggle with the concept of a higher power, you know GOD,
they might think they can't get better. If you are religious, seek AA, if you
are not, don't. I disagree completely that AA is a universal treatment. It is
not.

As I said before - I know an addict, he avoids getting help because he
believes that the 12 step programs are offensive. (I share the same opinion -
however I acknowledge they work for some people and that's good - I just
disagree they should be the "go to" programs for everyone) He knows AA doesn't
work for him, but he doesn't know there are non-religious programs and people
who have gotten better without religion.

Preaching AA as a first step or a cure all is harmful to these people.

Do I have personal experience with addition - absolutely. I was never an
addict, but I grew up all my life with an addict parent.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholics_Anonymous#United_Sta...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholics_Anonymous#United_States_Court_rulings)

United States courts have ruled that inmates, parolees, and probationers
cannot be ordered to attend AA. Though AA itself was not deemed a religion, it
was ruled that it contained enough religious components (variously described
in Griffin v. Coughlin below as, inter alia, "religion", "religious activity",
"religious exercise") to make coerced attendance at AA meetings a violation of
the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment of the constitution.[88][89]
In September 2007, United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit stated
that a parole office can be sued for ordering a parolee to attend AA.[90][91]

~~~
dave_sullivan
Try going to an AA meeting and saying you're an atheist--you'll find plenty
others present.

Your friend avoids getting help because he's an addict, not because he's
offended by the 12 step program.

You would suggest doing nothing in the absence of a perfect solution? That
_is_ awfully convenient if you're a fan of getting high...

~~~
aestra
>Your friend avoids getting help because he's an addict, not because he's
offended by the 12 step program.

Completely and totally incorrect. He has tried AA, and was completely
disgusted with it. He just thinks if he tries to get professional help again,
it will be like AA and he doesn't want that. Quitting on his own hasn't worked
out yet, he's tried.

>You would suggest doing nothing in the absence of a perfect solution?

OF COURSE NOT! I never suggested it, I didn't even imply it. I said "Preaching
AA as a first step or a cure all is harmful to these people." I didn't say it
didn't help some people, of course it does. I am saying if you have an
addiction people jump to "AA" like it is a cure all or the only route. They
don't evaluate the patient to see what is right for them. Even doctors don't
do this to a great degree. There are other non-region based programs out
there, they need to be considered on equal footing as AA, introducing the
wrong person to AA can turn them off of getting help at all. Right now it is
"I have an addition" then the answer is "Oh well just go to AA."

>That is awfully convenient if you're a fan of getting high...

What are you talking about? I don't get high.

> Try going to an AA meeting and saying you're an atheist--you'll find plenty
> others present.

So some can get past some parts of AA, some also cannot. Big deal.

~~~
randomflavor
LOL such denial. Your friend just likes to get wasted and doesn't want to
really stop. He would just like the consequences to stop while still being
able to get wasted at his own accord.

------
otto12
I hope it does get better for you

My mother died when I was in my early 20s after years of addiction to alcohol.

She had her ups too, which made it hard for all of us to see everything fall
apart again and again.

Until there was no coming back.

No AA, family support and interventions unfortunately ever helped her long
term.

I hope you will find some reason to quit, even if it's just knowing that you
can get your kids back - even if it takes many years.

It took me many years to "forgive" my parents (they died within 6 months of
each other), realising there was no forgiving needed - they had their struggle
and unfortunately failed.

Still saddens me that my own kids have will never know their grandparents.

I hope you will live to enjoy your grandchildren.

------
julie1
Well.
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14636959](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14636959)
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2732004/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2732004/)

The original study on nurses in Israel estimates the probability for stressed
people to give in to addiction to be 150% more than average.

Coders are liking this culture of burn in/burn out like junkies anyway.

It is clear our way of working is health hazardous. I never saw another
profession more despising that much CHSCT or usual working wisdoms or health
protection.

In my former (game company) the alcohol was even bought by the company every
friday and it was poorly accepted people refuses to share a toast. And I saw
the casual boozing a lot in a lot of places.

The average drinking in computer development and drug use {when I include the
graphists designer} are way above the average of my supposed to be unsafe with
all these junkies suburb. I don't come from a favela, just one of the
«banlieue» that gives nice rioting picture on CNN/fox news every 10 years.

The work culture in IT is the most dangerous and irresponsible I never saw. No
respect for anyone, neither workers, nor providers, nor sometimes customers.

It makes me sometimes feel as if I was working with psychopaths, and I did my
conscription, so I met psychopaths. But soldiers made me feel more secure.

~~~
julie1
btw, alcoholic, the same way other people do sports.

I don't care, I don't brag about it, I try to improve it by myself and it
works. Neither proud nor guilty.

Bad practice 101: drinking alcohol on your work place.

I kind of see it as an occupational disease. And for every new jobs I try to
voice myself against these practices. And it fails because I am over
«reacting».

Now, I don't care.

------
aquarin
I have become passionate tea drinker and can suggest it to anyone. I also
spend time during tea drinking to meditate for a moment. Recently even perform
gongfu style tea preparation.

------
bargl
OK so I'm just going to put this link out there. I can't do a write up like
his but what he said moved me to make some changes in my life. It was a fresh
perspective on how to beat some of my own failings through successful habits.
Anyway. here ya go.
[http://www.reddit.com/r/getdisciplined/comments/1q96b5/i_jus...](http://www.reddit.com/r/getdisciplined/comments/1q96b5/i_just_dont_care_about_myself/cdah4af)

------
alex_hitchins
If you want to talk to a recovering alcoholic, get in touch. I've been dry for
9 years.

------
paraiuspau
TL;DR - Seek counselling to drill down into the _causes_ for this behaviour.

I had a drinking problem for 10 years, I am/was a successful systems engineer.
I think I know how you feel.. Do you maybe find that you are living a life
which doesn't belong to you? Or put another way, are you just "spinning"? For
me, I would go on enormous binges of drink and drugs for 3 days, then abstain
for 2 weeks or so. I fixed it by "pressing play" on my life again, which
involved selling my house, and going on an adventure in another land. Ended up
doing the same job, but my environment was so different, new language,
culture, etc.. I stuck with counselling through this time and found a keen
sense of introspection. Ultimately, I drilled down to the real problems that
were manifesting the _symptoms_ such as drinking, junk food, drugs, excess
pr0n, etc... they were all methods to regain "control" over a situation I felt
powerless over. Ironic, really, as with drink and drugs we actually relinquish
our control.

Not sure if this post is going to help you, as indeed everyone's situation is
personal to them, but the common factors persist with such self-abuse
situations.

peace.

~~~
kokey
I think a lot of people can be helped by going on an adventure like their own
Rat Park
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park)

------
practicalpants
This is a male outlook and take this for what you will, but I'm a programmer,
and I've found that so much of overcoming addiction (drinking and porn,
mainly), bad sleeping cycles, and raw anxiety, social or otherwise, comes form
improving your sex life. For me this doesn't mean monogamy, or at least I
haven't met a girl in some time I'm ready to be exclusive with, mainly because
I've become aware of just how many fish there are in the sea... but rather
treat yourself to a dynamic and varied sex life, with multiple women. It's
both a rush and a centering, re-energizing force. It fulfills biological needs
and challenges you to be a better person. It's not easy, i.e. it challenges
you to be a better person.

If you're feeling overly stressed, be real with yourself, do I have the sex
life I want to have, am I missing out on some life experiences here? Be aware
of how your sex life can relate to frustrations, addictive patterns, etc.
because there is a real relationship, and it should not be discounted as a
source of whatever problems you're having.

~~~
whattt
because you know, women exist to give you a rush and re-center you. nothing's
better than ton of pussy when it comes to treating your various addictions and
sleeping/personality disorders.

~~~
practicalpants
Hmm... ok I see how this looks like "I'm objectifying women." Perhaps this was
carelessly worded - although I will say you're imposing a double standard if
you think women don't objectify or use men for the reasons you mention.

I mean 'sex life' to mean the sex, the intimacy, and the companionship.
There's no misleading of intentions. They are awesome relationships that
improve both participants. If you're just 'chasing pussy', as you interpreted
it, you're clearly not going to be fulfilled.

------
cookerware
I was also a software developer, not as successful but was living in a nice
flat in downtown, but I ended up getting fired a few times within the year.

The first time it was smoking heroin and cocaine. Lasted about 2 months. I
used to do it at work too because I was addicted. Shortly after getting fired,
I smoked crystal meth to get through the heroin withdrawl. This is how scary
heroin is, I was addicted after the second time I picked up. With the help of
a marijuana dealer, I got clean after he cut off my heroin dealer. I'd call
like crazy but he would no longer sell it.

I still remember laying on my bed on my 25th birthday, withdrawing from
heroin, thinking how seriously I fucked up. It took a few months of feeling
complete apathy until I began to improve. However, I still relied on tobacco
and weed to get through the hard stuff.

Few more months later I found another job, higher paying and less stressful.
However, I began drinking this time. Half a bottle of vodka everyday after
work and smoking weed before and after work. I'd come over with a hangover
everyday and I eventually couldn't keep this up for long.

Fast forward to now, I'm totally clean from any substance. I have absolutely
zero fucking desire to repeat what has been a complete wreckage of my
financial savings, losing my flat, and a waste of time.

What does worry me is the health effect it might have, especially the street
drugs I took during this short period of time on top of the weed and alcohol.
I'm alright now but I still can't wash myself of the guilt and the regret.
However, it keeps me well away from it.

Looking on to the future, I am willing to be successful, and I realized that I
can't do it with dependence on drugs and alcohol. I simply couldn't allow it
to get in my way.

------
facepalm
So sorry to hear that. I hope you can still overcome it.

My theory is that addiction is best "cured" by replacing it with something
better. That could be doing more satisfying things in your life, but perhaps
also simply a less destructive addiction, like playing video games.

I think if you make it into a willpower challenge you are probably doomed to
fail, in fact it might make it worse because you'll feel like a bad person for
presumably being "weak" (having no willpower). I think modern understanding is
that for willpower challenges it is better to arrange things in such a way
that the challenge becomes easy (like having no alcohol at home), rather than
making it a contest of iron will.

I really enjoyed the books on Willpower by Kelly McGonigal and and by Roy F
Baumeister. I suppose just reading such books won't cure an addiction, but
perhaps they could be of interest to you.

I'm sorry, it's easy to talk since I never had a severe issue like that. But I
had a lot of therapy - what always stuck most were the points when I learned
to accept myself.

~~~
pfortuny
Well, I would suggest as well starting with reality: give yourself _time_ , do
not _rush_ your recovery.

One needs, I guess, professional help, and the understanding that, probably,
you will need a lot of time to overcome the addiction. Willpower (what
Aristotle calls 'virtue') in a specific aspect in which one lacks is difficult
and hard to acquire. I _guess_ it can be done but it is just a guess.
Something very important is, to me, to give real value to your _little_
successes every day and never to despair (when one is an addict, there is
little 'will' in his addictive behaviour, this is exactly the problem, to
develop a 'will', and this is very much like getting physically stronger: you
will not make it in a day, but any step helps).

I really hope the OP makes it and ends up having a happy life, which is a
_free_ one. He has my prayers.

------
hanula
First of all, it's great that you are sharing this publicly. It's a big first
step to recovery. I can't tell you much as I'm only 31 and I enjoy alcohol,
sometimes in larger doses but it's part of my culture and local way of life.

I can only tell you that beating the thing called "alcoholism" is to decide to
stop drinking. That's it. My father after _many_ years did it, one day, just
like that. No one belived him. He's over 60 now and enjoys alcohol in very
normal way. My friend, also 31, quit drinking completely 3-4 years ago and he
was a person who drunk _unbelievable_ amounts, even to me, just crazy. Now
because of health problems he's 100% sober and he's fine! He's happy and can
enjoy everything he was doing before.

So. People will tell you that it is a disease, that you are sick and you won't
be able to quit on your own.. Wrong. It's only about you, your decision, your
life. Take care and ask yourself some hard questions. Self-awareness and self-
acceptance is the key.

------
icholboy
FWIW I used these techniques to overcome tobacco addiction and stress related
mental/physical problems:

i) Sport, cannot be stressed enough how benefitial it is for human body any
kind of regular sport activity ii) Change of current habits, which might be in
turn conducting you to your current situation iii) Travel for an extended
period or regularly, will effectively break your acquired habits and may open
your mind to new ideas (it changes the perspective) iv) the jacobson method of
progressive muscle relaxation, which can be as effective as anti-depressants
and that's no marketing talk. at least it worked for me.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_muscle_relaxation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_muscle_relaxation)

------
MorningInfidel
I've found Martial Arts helpful to get myself out of my head and take the edge
off the monkey energy that isn't being released through my sedentary, code ->
video games -> sleep lifestyle through the working week.

In particular, pick one that's as close to actual combat as possible. MMA is
great, but perhaps too intense. I've started training brazilian jiu jitsu and
can't recommend it enough. Something about fighting for your life against
someone who could easily put you to sleep/manhandle you that's therapeutic.

Sam Harris blogged about it here: [http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-
pleasures-of-drowning](http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-pleasures-of-
drowning)

I wish you all the luck in the world in getting past this.

------
ctdonath
Lots of good options posted here, lots of good insights.

I'd like to see more discussion about the enzymes needed to metabolize
alcohol. AFAIK, it's very much a genetic matter: some people (or, of note,
peoples) just lack the genes needed to process it in a manageable manner, tend
to feel the effects with greater intensity than others, and thus find it much
faster to go too far and harder to get out of that state and not go back.
Those who have it can enjoy a few without further compulsions; those who don't
dare not a drop. All this, of course, is poorly expressed and based on
fragments I've gleaned. Anyone have a better analysis, and perhaps a way to
test for this genetic predisposition to alcohol tolerance or lack thereof?

------
yeukhon
I hope you will feel better.

My problem is simply I can't go to bed on time. I try many times, forcing
myself to go to bed but I just can't. I always stay up late and even when I
feel sleepy I can stay awake =. I am getting tired of staying awake all the
time. :(

~~~
ccvannorman
Maybe your problem is you haven't yet designed a life to fit your odd sleeping
habits. :-)

------
madamepsychosis
Try Alan Carr's "Easy Way To Stop Drinking". Addiction perpetuates itself
partly through false beliefs, this book goes through and debunks all of them.
I used his guide to quit smoking, and it was really helpful.

~~~
veganarchocap
I can absolutely second this, I read his smoking book and quit immediately
after I put it down, laughing all the way... it really is the winning formula
for addiction!

------
eob
Hey man, hang in there.

Everyone in this thread has different advice from different experiences.
Different things work for different people. Here's my advice: tell your
friends to hold you accountable, ask them if you can call or text them when
you're feeling vulnerable. Hell, move in with a friend if you're currently
living alone. If you don't have anyone like that in your life, join a group
like AA.

Humans can be solitary creatures if we let ourselves, and when solitary the
world looks very different. Surround yourself with positive relationships and
open yourself to them so they can help hold you up.

------
unholygoat
Fellow code-monkey, startup founder, alcoholic here -

It DOES get better. Shit I burned my entire life to the ground. Incredible
salary (not to mention investments/savings), a house, fiancee, etc.. I had the
whole fucking american dream and wasn't even 25. It felt though like the next
thing I knew I was waking up and I was 29, having systematically destroyed
everything in my life and was living off what little was left on my last non-
maxed out credit card....eventually attempted suicide but my drunken ass
failed at even that! I can't even begin to describe how un-comprehensibly
demoralizing my life had become. In the absence of alcohol I'd shake
uncontrollably which eventually led to auditory + visual hallucinations --
Some very scary shit! My neighbor took me to the ER one day after I stumbled
down some stairs & promptly went into a full seizure in the waiting
room....after a few days in their detox ward the simple logic of "What I had
been doing wasn't working.....Maybe I should try a different approach," I
found myself on a plane headed to a rehab out in Pasadena, CA where I
remembered a few friends had been to (and were living the life I wanted). The
entire experience from that moment on saved my life. That first year wasn't
all peaches and cream but I quickly found my balance of life/work/family...got
back all the relationships that mattered & the work/money eventually followed.
I've seen the same shit happen to easily hundreds of others. Hell, I
personally know a solid dozen VERY successful, well known posters/startup
hero's on HN who are recovered alcoholics/addicts.

Please shoot me an email.. even just to chat... unholygoat@gmx.com (it's
forwarded to my real email)

If you don't want to email me or Snail_commando at least checkout this site
(It's a giant forum/directory of all the many different types of help out
there & can put in in touch with all the various resources that are local to
you).

[http://www.soberrecovery.com/](http://www.soberrecovery.com/)

Anyhow man, I hope to hear from you...there's an entire world out there of
people who have lived through the madness and chaos and can help you do the
same. -b

~~~
ada1981
I work with high performers as a coach and have worked with a number of people
on Hacker News who have posted problems. I'm experimenting with opening up a
room in my home in Palo Alto for a 31 day emersive coaching / lifestyle
upgrade experience.

We'll reboot all of your daily habits in a way you could never do on your own;
you'll have a 1 on 1 coach who has worked with some of the most successful
people and organizations on the planet; you'll develop a deeper sense of who
you are and connect to intimacy as a spiritual path; and you will have more
impact on the planet.

I've yet to have a client tell me that the investment with me wasn't the best
of their life.

If you (or any of you) would like to talk to see if this opportunity would be
a fit for you, be in touch anthony @ 175g . com

We would start may 1st.

I see this being best for someone who is going through a breakup, a
transition, has a habit / addiction they'd like to overcome, has recently
exited a company and is feeling unfulfilled / unsatisfied, or otherwise needs
to reconnect to the aliveness of life.

------
Stronico
After reading a lot of the comments I think it would be useful to create a
distinction between a drinking problem (loosely defined as someone drinks to
much, has negative consequences, etc) and addiction (loosely define as strong,
life threatening withdrawal symptoms and intense cravings).

I've heard addiction defined as a "Confusion of your survival instincts"
caused by prolonged exposure to a drug which seems to be an adequate and
accurate description of addiction.

------
hunvreus
I believe that regular exercise and switching to a proper diet (paleo) helped
me give up on alcohol altogether.

I'd recommend you start kicking you own butt: go to
[http://www.nerdfitness.com/academy-overview-
page/](http://www.nerdfitness.com/academy-overview-page/) and subscribe, start
building a routine. Stick to it and you'll quickly see that abusive drinking
isn't just an option.

------
glanotte
I am an alcoholic sober for 7 years. You know you have a problem and that
really is great because then you can address it. If you need to talk to
someone, find me on twitter @glanotte and we will find a way to get in touch.

If you don't want to talk, get to an AA meeting or if you don't think you can
control yourself, check into rehab. Strike while you care about it, don't wait
for yourself to start making excuses.

------
Stronico
You should check out the documentary "Pleasure Unwoven" for the
psychiatric/brain aspects of addiction [http://www.amazon.com/Pleasure-
Unwoven-Explanation-Disease-A...](http://www.amazon.com/Pleasure-Unwoven-
Explanation-Disease-
Addiction/dp/B003AC98V2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396013931&sr=8-1&keywords=pleasure+unwoven)

------
mitko
Fwiw, I'd like to share some the way I approached alcohol, after going through
some times where I drank more beer than water.

Now, I still drink from time to time, but it is easier for me to decide not to
drink in a given situation.

[http://mitko.github.io/2013/11/09/overthrowing-
alcohol/](http://mitko.github.io/2013/11/09/overthrowing-alcohol/)

------
zafka
All I can tell you is that It really can get quite good after you stop
drinking. Not always right away, and of course, not all the time. But I really
am grateful that I am able to enjoy life as much as I do. While I regret my
time as a derelict, I think I might have needed that to convince myself to
stay stopped now that I have quit. ( for quite a while now)

------
caymaness
The thing that helped me the most was to simply accept that I was not alone in
my pain/struggles. For far too long did I imagine that my pain was unique.
Once I opened up to friends I found, to my surprise, that many people were
going through a very similar type of strife. Accepting that you are not alone
is a major first step towards recovery.

------
halis
I'm a 32 year old software developer and I've been sober for over 6 years now.
Had a horrible drinking problem, that got progressively worse since my teen
years.

Today, I have a wife and two sons and I don't miss drinking one bit. But I had
to get pretty low to stop. Everyone's bottom is different, I was lucky that I
hit mine so young.

------
motters
That's surprising because at least in my case I discovered when I was a
teenager that boozing and coding don't mix. Even small amounts of alcohol make
it hard for me to concentrate on any amount of programming, and so that is why
I rarely consume it. I just like coding more than boozing.

~~~
Jetrel
Nah, even blind drunk, I've been able to write bulletproof, complicated code.
Stuff that checks out the next day as perfectly fine - furthermore, stuff that
I can remember the entire thought process behind. It differs from person to
person; some people simply can't think or remember clearly at all when drunk,
some other people have a "Ballmer Peak"
[https://xkcd.com/323/](https://xkcd.com/323/) \- I'm not sure why, but I
think it might have to do with mild amounts of alcohol relaxing their mental
processes and helping them get over certain mental hangups that trip them up,
normally. Other people have a Ballmer Plateau, where the alcohol allows them
to enter a meditative state of complete and utter mental focus, allowing them
to be fully lost in their work, and to work at 100% capacity as long as the
buzz lasts. Sort of a working "trance", if you will, freeing them from all
procrastination.

I suspect this is a large part of the allure for many ADHD-types; the freedom
from procrastination is something they're afraid they can't otherwise achieve.

I know this sort of thing is the case in a lot of fields which require similar
"non-procrastinative focus for hours on end". Writers, artists, animators,
musicians - all of these have tons of people who struggle to knuckle down and
put in long hours without a buzz going. Stephen King talked about this a lot
in his autobiography - I could quote a lot of other anecdotes from other
people, but his really had a personal effect on me.

-

I struggled with this myself (I drank for maybe 6 years in/after college, and
I drank pretty hard for a few of them). It sucks because I can't recommend
anything to help anyone; what worked for me was not "actionable".

What cracked it for me was when the enjoyment lost its edge; over time it just
got harder and harder to hit that 'sweet spot' of the perfect alcohol buzz,
and the hangovers got crummier and crummier. Finally just ... deep down,
subconsciously, I was gut-reacting to the prospect of a drink with more
anxiety than anticipation. That was the end; I just lost the will to try, from
too much associative-emotions of pain and fatigue investing themselves in the
idea of drinking. Just like that. I didn't even have to go cold-turkey; I have
a drink every few months, and even just a couple drinks leaves me feeling just
"crummy" enough the next day that this emotional association won't go away,
and it seems to have quieted (almost) all the urges to drink I used to have. I
have no fear, whatsoever, of falling off the wagon because when I do drink, I
no longer feel that unstoppable compulsion to take my buzz even higher - that
alone was the element that made me an alcoholic, and it's gone.

I'm happy to say I'm cured forever ... but goddamn I wish I could give that to
other people.

------
jesusmichael
Dude... Don't feel bad, you join the ranks of 1000's of lottery winners,
except you have skills... You're the 1% if not in net worth... definitely in
brains... Do something

------
patrikj
Did the addiction have anything to do with the fact that you are a software
developer?

Good advice, but I doubt that developers would be especially prone to
alcoholism.

------
randomflavor
drinking is just a symptom - real problem is between your ears. you drink to
quiet it. until you find a replacement you are fucked. you can't just 'stop'.
maybe for a few days or weeks or months, but the consequences of your drinking
won't really change.

~~~
alex_hitchins
I agree with this, it more than likely started to suppress or replace
something and then became an addiction.

I would also strongly advise you go to a doctor before trying to stop. If you
have been a heavy drinker for a long time, you will have physical withdraw
effects. Doctors can prescribe a short run of Diazepam which will help with
the physical effects and also sedate your addiction a little. Don't take it
for more than a week though, or it will become your new addiction.

I didn't take this advice and stopped overnight which could have been
incredibly dangerous. I risked fits, seizures and all sorts.

------
mydogmuppet
If your drinking is costing you more than money its usually a problem.
Alcoholism is an equal opportunity employer. Are you Willing to take action to
stop drinking ? You are not alone; there are many who have similar
experiences. Many of these problem drinkers made a decision that today was
going to be the day that they started to save their own lives.

------
cnp
Get through the tough, deadly part, then look into Ibogaine treatment in
Mexico or Canada.

------
imre
my 2 rules: 1) never drink alcohol alone 2) never drink alcohol to lessen
hangover

------
spiritplumber
Hang in there, bro.

------
epynonymous
same here, i like to drink scotch

------
sixmonthssober
I hate the fact that I cannot attach my real name or handle when writing on
this topic, but that's just the way things are right now.

Today is my 180th day sober. If you asked me a year ago if I'd be dead or six
months sober in a year's time, I'd have gone with dead.

Somehow I kept my current full time developer job through the past five years,
but over the last decade have lost one job, bankrupted a company I co-founded
and had my wife leave me. I offer the same advice as OP: Stop drinking now.
Telling yourself you'll stop at some arbitrary point in the future won't work.
The long term consequences are ugly; My teeth and skin are fucked up, my short
term memory is cracked, and it's only been the past six months of my adult
life that I've not been pissing away every paycheck. But I feel a lot smarter
now than I was a year ago.

I decided I wanted to stop, and so I did the only thing I could: I moved away
from the self-destructive social scene and habits I had been wallowing in. I
just up and left (luckily could work in another city).

But keep in mind that post-stopping is really hard. I feel so productive and
sharper now that it's ironically depressing; I know I wasted years and threw
away dozens of opportunities. There are friendships where I fear I'll never be
able to repair the damage that drunk me caused, but I will try. In the past
month or so I've finally been able to man up and contact some of them to tell
them what's happened. Some I owe money. I will fix this. Even if they still
won't forgive me.

Having someone to talk to and an avenue to vent is essential. Big lifestyle
changes helped me, especially getting out of the environment where I could get
away with drinking like that every day and working from 11 or noon still
drunk.

Other people here have mentioned the medical ramifications of quitting. It's
no joke. I didn't quit until I feared dying from quitting as much as I feared
dying from continuing. Maybe this is the choice you have now. I hope you
choose life. After all, that's why we're here.

From my experience of quitting:

Read up at the Crippling Alcoholism subreddit. Lots of good resources on
quitting. See a doctor, get evaluated and say, "I need help." If tapering
helps, do it. I tapered for four days before checking in. It's different for
everyone, but I had night terrors, sweats and I heard voices. This lasted a
couple of weeks. Get medication for anxiety. But don't stay on it long. I'm
back to having the occasional anxiety attack, but that's better than puking on
my laptop once a month or so. Eat better, lose weight. Focus the addictive
part of your personality on fitness goals. I've lost 2.5 stone so far. I
almost feel like a person again.

Message me if you want.

------
venomsnake
There were examples in Charles Duhigg's The Power of Habit about people that
have managed to turn their life around. Probably it is worth taking a look at.

Also - as a person that has struggled with (thankfully) only weight - there
are no silver bullets.

------
PreetikaThakur
It's good that you have at least realized, for the all tings you did. There's
nothing impossible if someone actually tries it. I wish you luck :) Hope
you''ll soon get what you have lost.

------
newblahbl4hblah
Get help. Don't put it off.

------
ffbellfhtlflf
Kinda makes me wonder why the hell so many people are tryna tell me to slow
down. Seems like motherfuckers should be shuttin' the hell up and enjoyin' the
show

------
nitishdhar
Keep calm & write awesome code

~~~
aurumpotest
*sober

~~~
ffbellfhtlflf
aint' you heard of the ballmer curve baby dick

------
homakov
That's sad, but you are not doing drugs - you can quit easily, just do it! Try
to do sports or stuff like that, travel.. Seriously, alcohol is disgusting if
you drink it every day.

I have a hooker problem, no joke. Since we are talking about addictions here?

~~~
stinos
_That 's sad, but you are not doing drugs_

serisously, this nonsense has to stop. Alcohol = drugs and whoever tells
otherwise doesn't properly understand what drugs are and how they work on your
mind and body. Note: I tried _a lot_ of stuff out there, and in the end
alcohol is just one of the others, _sole_ difference being it's 'accepted',
sort of (btw same is true for quite a lot of the prescription things as well)

 _\- you can quit easily_

it's not that easy at all, highly depends on your mindset

 _just do it!_

at least that makes sense :]

~~~
homakov
To you and others - i didn't know it's not a drug. It was my opinion,
apparently wrong. Thanks for clarifications! Will do beers only on fridays
then!

~~~
Snail_Commando
> To you and others - i didn't know it's not a drug. It was my opinion,
> apparently wrong. Thanks for clarifications! Will do beers only on fridays
> then!

But it's not an opinion, it was a factually incorrect statement. There is a
distinction.

The only reasons people categorize the two as different are societal,
cultural, and legal. Not by any empirical, scientific standard.

In the end it is a chemical that has an intoxicating, mind altering effect on
the body. Which is, by definition, a drug.

Acting as though alcohol is somehow "not a drug" or that alcohol addiction is
somehow distinct from "drug addiction" is unproductive at best, lethal at
worst.

------
seanhandley
Or.... you could practice moderation?

Alcohol does not make you into a problem. You make yourself into a problem,
and lump alcohol in with all the other things that you could blame it on.

Grow up. Be accountable to yourself. Don't externalise blame.

~~~
seanhandley
More thoughts here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7486096](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7486096)

~~~
chris_wot
That was quite unhelpful. And it should have been a comment.

