
Ƀ — Universal Bitcoin Logo Alternative - bpierre
http://www.ecogex.com/bitcoin
======
jws
That is Unicode U+0243 "Latin Capital Letter B with stroke". It is in the
_Latin Extended-B_ block, which contains among other mysteries, about half of
the latin letters with strokes.

I'd love to see a "Unicode: What where they thinking?" page that documents why
they thought a particular codepoint should be in the standard. I mean, capital
A, B, and C with a stroke, but not capital D? A and C have their stroke
diagonal, B has its horizontal, U also gets a horizontal stroke, but it is
named a "bar". All very mysterious.

~~~
jrochkind1
The OP suggests that U+0243 B with stroke is a "capitalized alternate symbol
for the voiced bilabial fricative in Americanist phonetic notation"

I would suspect that the other stroke capitals that are present were used in
specific actual alphabets (and probably represented in some existing pre-
unicode font or code block), whether 'Americanist phonetic alphabet', or other
-- and the stroke capitals that are not present, were not.

In general, unicode codepoints are justified by actually existing use.

(There is an interesting metaphysical problem that arises as our lives become
increasingly digitized -- things that are not present in unicode _won't_ be
used, because they won't be _able_ to be used online... so how will new things
be added justified by use, once all the existing pre-digital glyphs have been
added? I dunno.)

~~~
vanderZwan
> In general, unicode codepoints are justified by actually existing use.

I vaguely remember something about Klingon and unicode related to that... ah,
there we go:

 _"In September 1997, Michael Everson made a proposal for encoding this in
Unicode.[2] The Unicode Technical Committee rejected the Klingon proposal in
May 2001 on the grounds that research showed almost no use of the script for
communication, and the vast majority of the people who did use Klingon
employed the Latin alphabet by preference.[3] Everson created a mapping of
pIqaD into the Private Use Area of Unicode, which he listed in the ConScript
Unicode Registry (U+F8D0 to U+F8FF[4][5])"_

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klingon_alphabets>

~~~
simonster
Everson did manage to get J.R.R. Tolkien's Cirth and Tengwar tentatively
included; see <http://www.unicode.org/roadmaps/smp/>

~~~
lifthrasiir
No. The roadmap indicates that they are formally proposed for inclusion and
yet to be accepted (and nor rejected either, as in [1]). From the bottom of
the roadmap:

> (Text between parentheses) indicates scripts for which proposals have been
> formally submitted to the UTC or to WG2. There is generally a link to the
> formal proposal.

[1] <http://www.unicode.org/roadmaps/not-the-roadmap/>

~~~
simonster
According to the phrasing on the bottom of the page I linked to, the blocks
are "tentatively allocated." I'm not sure how this is substantially different
from the phrasing I used, which was "tentatively included."

------
cturner
I don't see a strong need for special symbols for currencies. Currencies can
be represented using three letter codes like GBP, USD and BTC. It's ASCII,
unambiguous and scales better than having a new custom symbol per character.

~~~
agravier
About that: note that in the ISO standard for those 3 letter currency codes,
the first two letters represent the country or union that issues the currency.
For instance, there will not be another GB* currency that is not british. And
BT* correspond to Bhutan, IIRC. So BTC is problematic.

~~~
cturner
That's as arbitrary as the idea that only a nation-state can support a
currency.

~~~
miles
The ISO 4217 currency codes [1] look pretty arbitrary too. For example, why is
the Afghan afghani "AFN" instead of "AFA", or the Japanese yen "JPY" instead
of "JAY"?

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_4217#Active_codes>

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
It's JPY because the ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 2-letter country code for Japan is JP.
Similarly, it is GBP because the ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 2-letter country code for
the United Kingdom is GB, not UK. ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 is used everywhere, for
example on the web for ccTLDs (although the UK is an exception, since it has
GB allocated, but for backwards-compatibility with another network, it also
got UK, and now disallows registrations on GB).

------
Samuel_Michon
According to the Wayback Machine, this exact page has been online for two
years[1]. It's also been mentioned on the Wikipedia page for 'Ƀ' since June of
2011[2]. The OP has submitted this link once before, 10 months a go[3].

That's not to say that this isn't an interesting proposal, it just means some
ideas take time before they gain any traction.

[1]
[http://web.archive.org/web/20110815000000*/http://www.ecogex...](http://web.archive.org/web/20110815000000*/http://www.ecogex.com/bitcoin/)

[2]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%C9%83&diff=54...](http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%C9%83&diff=547317126&oldid=434428292)

[3] <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3987186>

------
jahewson
It looks like it was designed in 1977, which is disappointing because a
currency symbol should have a timeless design. Use of color is nearly always
doomed to failure because others will not be diligent about reproducing the
colours faithfully.

The existing Bitcoin symbol is far superior, and that it is identical to the
Thai Baht is of no great significance - currency symbols are hardly unique.
The horizontal bar looks awkward - it lends a poor balance to the design, and
looks more like a rendering glitch in smaller sizes.

------
chasing
Looks terrible. The earlier B+$ blend
(<http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bitcoin.png>) works better. Alludes
to a dollar sign, but uses the B. I'm not the biggest fan of Bitcoin, but I
thought that logo was clever and memorable. This one looks like crap.

~~~
beering
1) You are so quick to call this crap. 2) One of its explicit goals is to find
an _existing_ character. Your post ironically shows that you can't currently
type the B+$ symbol.

~~~
chasing
Well, without hitting up the Google I have no idea how to type that B-with-a-
line-through it, either.

Plus, yeah, I'm standing by my first reaction that it looks, if not like crap,
than kind of random. It doesn't really communicate anything on its own. A
bystander won't see it and think "this is a currency symbol." Which I would
think Bitcoin proponents would want!

~~~
banachtarski
The guy you criticize makes it a point that he is trying to use a symbol that
__doesn't __resemble the dollar sign since there is no correspondance between
BTC and USD.

~~~
virtualritz
Did you look at other currency signs? The EUR sign is an round E with two
horizontal bars. The JPY symbol is a Y with two horizontal bars. The GBP sign
is a curved L with one originally, but nowadays, in many fonts, two horizontal
bars. The dollar, too had one vertical bar. Nowadays it has two, in many
fonts. There is another dozen currencies with symbols following this logic. Do
a google image search with "currency symbol" as the term.

Guess why?

Designers of currency symbols have silently agreed to use two bars to mean
just that: "this symbol represents a currency". So the B with two bars, for
Bitcoin, is perfect.

The real solution (that may need a website too, to advertise it to the masses,
least not the peeps @ HN) is obviously to agree on some free unicode slot to
occupy and to get font designers to incorporate this two bar 'B' into existing
fonts, in this slot.

~~~
userulluipeste
>The dollar, too had one vertical bar. Nowadays it has two, in many fonts.

That is not correct. There was not a transition from "two vertical bars" to
"one vertical bar" [1]. Please document yourself before posting.

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_sign#Origin>

~~~
virtualritz
I do not know what you mean by "document". I studied typography and designed
digital type, for a while, about 20 years ago. So I know a bit about the
design side of things. And the design side is what my post is limited to. I am
sorry if this was a tad ambiguous.

I did not talk about the history. I talked about a typographical design trend
that pertains to currency symbols. Also not that better typefaces sometimes
have both versions on the $ sign. One and two strokes. The default is
admittedly still the single bar one though.

Expert discussion re. the one bar/two bar $ sign, that could be an interesting
read: <http://www.typophile.com/node/17976>

------
bcoates
Not enough bling. It should be " ҉в҉ " for maximum currency power.

------
IvyMike
Personally, I like it.

One request: someone should declare that the Comic Sans version should have an
eye: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_sign> .

Maybe I just did.

~~~
christiangenco
Swap your []s and ()s.

~~~
corin_
That still doesn't work, because this site doesn't use the same formatting as
(reddit)[<http://www.reddit.com>]

~~~
calinet6
AKA "basically markdown." Oh well.

------
gesman
I think ฿ is becoming de-facto bitcoin sign quickly.

And sincerely it looks more appealing as a currency sign either.

~~~
bpierre
Except ฿ is already the sign of the Thai baht (currency of Thailand), which is
pretty confusing: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_baht>

~~~
jl6
Not a fatal issue. A plain $ sign is very often used to mean a non-U.S.-dollar
currency, with minimal confusion due to context.

~~~
brendoncrawford
I generally find this to be extremely confusing.

~~~
mynameisvlad
Really? Why?

If you're in a country where a dollar is used, and you see $, you assume it's
the local dollar. If it's not, they'll use something to denote the currency.
If it's the internet, same thing, you see if the company is Canadian, or
American, or whathaveyou.

~~~
iso8859-1
And what should they use in Thailand for Bitcoin?

~~~
mynameisvlad
That has any significance to my comment... how?

My comment was very specifically showing how using the dollar sign in a
country where a local currency which is also a dollar (ie. Canada) but not USD
is not confusing, because you have local context. You _know_ you're not
talking about the US Dollar, because the local currency takes precedence.

And, as winthrowe replied, what would happen is you add a currency denotation
after the value, such as CAD, USD, AUD, etc. It's already done all over the
world.

------
Xcelerate
Actually, I propose we just submit a new symbol for the next Unicode release
later this year:

[http://www.unicode.org/mail-arch/unicode-
ml/y2012-m12/0037.h...](http://www.unicode.org/mail-arch/unicode-
ml/y2012-m12/0037.html)

~~~
mynameisvlad
That's a horrible idea if you want the mark to be used across the internet. It
will take plenty of time for new systems to use newer version of Unicode, and
some systems will never support it at this point.

~~~
Xcelerate
I disagree. All major browsers will support it within a couple months and any
Bitcoin related software would just build the symbol in. Where else is it
going to get much use? Microsoft Word?

~~~
mynameisvlad
Anyone using outdated browsers due to company requirements? Anyone using, for
example, XP, which is fast losing browser support?

And yes, Word. Software people actually use. If you want your currency to
succeed, you better hope that its symbol can be quickly and easily viewed by
__everyone __.

And "a few months" is not really correct. Chrome 25 still doesn't support
parts or all of the January 2012 version, released over a year ago.

~~~
Groxx
Browsers are arguably the easiest to support. Include an .eot, .ttf, and
@font-face and you've covered a _huge_ portion of browsers.

~~~
mynameisvlad
Now you've just added another requirement for any site that wants to advertise
Bitcoin acceptance using a symbol. Add in a @font-face, and you're all good to
go.

That's not going to fly.

~~~
Groxx
How is this different than "add in <bitcoin image>"? It could be shortened to
"include this script and it'll do it for you" - there are plenty of cases of
that working. Google Analytics, for instance.

------
GhotiFish
This symbol isn't bad, but I like the current Bitcoin symbol. Further I think
the Bitcoin symbol should be ADDED to unicode. It's a new currency, it's a new
symbol. it's in the vernacular. It should be added to unicode. Rather than co-
opt another symbol that might have other uses.

I can understand the reticence to add a symbol because some group of people
have begun using it for their nomenclature. That kind of thing happens all the
time, after all, bitcoin could go away. I understand that, but exactly how
much traction does one need to get? Does 10% of the planet need to know? Does
30%? 50%? When's the tipping point?

Then again. If our new little currency has 3 different symbols and no one can
agree on what it should look like. THEN I'd understand not putting it in
unicode.

    
    
       *cough*

------
nostromo
One of the nice features of Bitcoin is that it's supposed to retain its value
better than fiat currencies, which are designed to lose value over time.

Keeping that in mind, you could put a non-spacing unicode equals sign under
the B like this: B͇. Looks quite nice also.

If you wanted to keep the double slashed dollar/euro/yen theme, you could also
use non-spacing unicode to make something like B⃦ or B⃒.

~~~
gahahaha
Bitcoin is actually designed to be very deflationary, not stable.

~~~
nostromo
By "retain its value" I meant >= not just == as opposed to inflationary fiat
currencies which do not retain their value.

I suppose we could do B͐ instead. :)

------
ctbeiser
Why is it that a currency logo now needs a color scheme? Every other major
currency in the world is doing fine without a special color. I don't see why
Bitcoin is any different.

~~~
franciscoap
Well, they don't have a color scheme, but some currencies definitely have a
color "identity".

The Euro is yellow on blue, like the EU flag.

When you think of the Dollar, you think green (so many popular sayings came
from this one!).

I am sure there are more, but I cannot remember any at the moment.

------
moreati
I'm quite a fan of the Forrst proposal
<http://forrst.com/posts/Rebranding_of_Bitcoin-Ft5>.

~~~
lucb1e
Both of the symbols shown in the top image are fine by me, the proposed one
perhaps a bit better than the original. The OP's proposal just looks ugly and
incredibly outdated. This new logo you linked looks like it's new, speedy, and
I like the two-color simplicity.

------
rdegges
This actually looks really great. I do find it a bit interesting that the
colorscheme is also roughly the same as what Hacker News itself uses.

~~~
drharris
Agreed, I like it. Also noticed the nod at HN, but it might be a coincidence.
Really like that it's an existing unicode character; that's something that
other currencies get for free, and Bitcoin should be no exception.

------
zokier
I have to go with the crowd saying that currency symbols are silly things and
should be deprecated. I never liked the euro symbol, it's awkward to write by
hand or type with keyboard. And extra awkward with limited/non-standard
keyboards such as those found on mobile devices. I usually use just "e", eg.
10e (with or without space depending on context). If I need to be more
explicit or formal for some reason then I'd use EUR or just spell out the full
name (eg. 10 euros). There is some benefit of having a four-letter name for
your currency.

On a related note having your currency symbol as a prefix is also bit awkward
as no other units generally are used as prefix. That's why I often prefer to
write 10 usd instead of $10.

------
giblfiz
Relevant regarding standards: <http://xkcd.com/927/>

------
Xcelerate
I don't like it. It looks stupid. It looks like some text rendering glitched.
I much prefer the B that resembles the dollar (or some of the other
alternatives) over this one.

~~~
nwh
That's a Thai currency symbol already though.

~~~
duskwuff
And $ can stand for about twenty different currencies. Not all currencies
have, or need, unique symbols.

~~~
homosaur
Just because people are already doing confusing things with currency symbols
doesn't mean we have to continue to do confusing things with currency symbols
in the future.

~~~
stcredzero
Right! Just because a fringe groups like the US and Australia do with an
overloaded currency symbol doesn't mean that Bitcoin needs to settle for such
nonsense!

------
namwen
The B inside the mark should be pushed ever so slightly to the left. Because
it's center aligned with the strik-through as the left edge, it appears off-
center.

------
etjossem
I don't know how widespread browser support for Ⓑ is, but it's the most
intuitive symbol I can think of. Maybe ⓑ?

~~~
omegavesko
Chrome supports it, but it looks really wonky.

<http://i.imgur.com/YB3krUW.png>

~~~
iso8859-1
It's not really dependent on Chrome, it's dependent on your fonts.
<http://i.imgur.com/o2BIyki.png>

------
tomrod
Interesting. It doesn't render on an iPad with Chrome, but does render in the
header. Weird.

~~~
nwh
Same in Safari. I don't understand the difference.

------
alenart
What's the Bitcoins to Stanley Nickels conversion rate? What about to Schrute
Bucks?

FWIW, I see a B with something that looks like a dirt speck blocking a pixel
of my screen.

------
Leynos
This doesn't show up in Android (2.3), unfortunately.

~~~
nfg
Interestingly for me in both Chrome and Safari on iOS it renders as a box on
this page, but a barred-B in the tab/window title!

------
nbashaw
Yikes, the unicode character just looks like a messed up B. Most other
currencies look a lot better in unicode: $, £, €, ¥, etc

~~~
mtinkerhess
Arguably, those are messed up S, messed up L, messed up C, and messed up Y.

~~~
nbashaw
I think they all have clearer visual differentiation and generally are more
aesthetically pleasing than Ƀ

~~~
Samuel_Michon
Not to mention that traditionally Ƀ is pronounced as 'v'.

~~~
Narretz
Traditionally maybe, but only by a small minority (of linguists?)

------
Scryptonite
I would much rather use the original BTC symbol. I would gander it has
something to do with the fact that my mind has an easier time having the
vertical bar(s) in "$" be a symbol of monetary value, and that I would have a
different opinion if I were born in the UK or Germany and had the "£"/"€"
characters on my keyboard.

------
valgaze
iPad Unicode is a no-go: <http://i.imgur.com/ugqJZre.png>

~~~
publicfig
Is that because of the iPad? Notice it exists just fine in the page title bar.

~~~
valgaze
Seems like it, same weird behavior (title bar OK) on chrome ipad:
<http://i.imgur.com/GnOqBnZ.png>

------
ianstormtaylor
I think having the unicode character is a great idea, you definitely want it
to be reproducible in print without include images.

Except there's no reason to directly use the exact same letter outlines for
the logo. The outlines could be improved and the general colors, shapes could
also use some work.

------
mortenjorck
I anticipate this meeting with similar uptake to Leo Laporte's campaign to
rebrand podcasts as "netcasts" about seven years ago. Sure, it makes more
sense, it's more flexible, but there's way, way too much inertia to change at
this point.

------
sturmeh
That's lovely, but I can't see it in Chrome or IE8 on Windows XP.

What is wrong with ฿?

~~~
lessnonymous
There is nothing wrong with the Thai Bhat. Why do you ask?

~~~
sturmeh
They won't be needing their fiat anyway. :P

------
rickyconnolly
Outrageous. How am I supposed to designate voiced bilabial fricatives and ask
for Bitcoin donations on the same page?

------
jessaustin
How about using two glyphs, with U+00A2 for the second? ฿¢ B¢ b¢ etc.

------
barbs
Not sure if this was recent, but preev.com has this character as its symbol
now.

------
antimora
Does not work on android. The letter looks square.

------
APB
Just another Bitcoin (alternate) identity

[http://www.behance.net/gallery/Bitcoin-(alternate-
identity)/...](http://www.behance.net/gallery/Bitcoin-\(alternate-
identity\)/7838525)

~~~
lucb1e
I'm sorry to say it, but, eww. I guess it's just not my style.

~~~
omegavesko
Same here, ugh. Looks like programmer art from the early 2000s.

------
rileytg
Awfully similar to hacker news colors no?

------
medell
I see B minus.

------
johnward
This didn't show up on my iphone3g

------
shmerl
Good idea.

------
dfischer
I like it.

------
johngaston
huh

------
monsterix
Personally, I am just about okay with it. Have you considered inserting 'c' of
(B)it(c)oin instead of the horizontal bar (dash) on the alphabet B?

Even if ฿ is the symbol of Thai currency it could be used for Bitcoin too.
Much will depend on the context and besides not many buy online goods in Thai
currency. US $ is the de facto currency in most places.

Also a small, really small, horizontal dash on the second leg of B isn't as
great as horizontal dashes of £, €, ¥ no?

Have you considered a slant cutting across B? Or the mathematical/Greek beta
sign (U+03D0) or its derivatives [1]?

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta>

~~~
lyndonh
> not many buy online goods in Thai currency

Great idea, there are only 65 million people in Thailand and they will never
need to use the Internet.

~~~
monsterix
> need to use the Internet.

Is not the same as purchasing goods online from foreign websites. Purchasing
using Bitcoin is but only one use-case.

Besides I have not many (not one, in fact) Thai portals listing its prices in
any currency other than US$. Not one.

May be there could be some selling incense sticks in local Thai Baht, but meh
that's not meant for 65 MM Thais. However, it may not be a great idea to adopt
this symbol because, like you, many Thais would want their currency symbol to
remain unique.

What keeps you from saying that?

~~~
lyndonh
So when Thai people want to buy something online, how do they know if the
price is in Bitcoin or Baht ?

Your attitude appears to be very US-centric: you don't think Thai people buy
things online in their own currency or you don't think it's important if Thai
people never use Bitcoin ever.

Just because some online stores have detected your IP address originates in
the US and shows prices in US$ doesn't mean they don't show THB to Thai IP
addresses.

My only concern is that for the sake of choosing an appropriate symbol in the
beginning, you are happy to make people suffer confusion.

------
jtchang
Doesn't look bad at all. Simple currency symbol.

