
Time to abandon Gmail? - hepha1979
http://www.zdnet.com/debate/time-to-abandon-gmail/10131024/
======
lukeqsee
I clicked the link expecting to see security/privacy arguments (perhaps a HN
bias?). Instead, I saw arguments against Gmail's best-in-class web-interface.
The combination of keyboard shortcuts, labels, and filters make it the best.
Having used Fastmail, it does rival Gmail, but only if you are an advanced
user willing to put the effort into making it fit your use case. The reason I
am slowly switching away from Gmail is founded in security and privacy
considerations, somewhat better control over my own domain, and I think that
Gmail's move to a the tabbed inbox was failure in large part, and mixes junk
with legitimate mail in my inbox.

FWIW, I've used Gmail for 6 or 7 years and Fastmail for 1 year.

Edit: clarification

~~~
Al-Khwarizmi
I've been a Gmail user since its invite-only inception. I would agree with you
about the UI a year ago. But the new SMS-sized compose window and the UI
changes that put all non-basic functionality 2 or 3 clicks away are really
annoying.

I would leave Gmail due to the UI changes, although I must confess I hadn't at
the moment because it's too much bother to tell people about a new address,
set up redirection, find out how to save all the old messages and have them at
hand, etc.

~~~
sliverstorm
I _despise_ the new compose window, but most of the time I'm using IMAP
anyway.

~~~
sp332
This might help: ctrl-click the compose button to give it a whole new tab to
itself. Shift-click for a new window.

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fumar
There is a strong trend of anti-Google stories, not just on HN, but all over
the web.

Why? Is it just trendy to dislike Google? What are the alternatives to Google
services? I am curious, I am not ready to dump Google, but I have been
diversifying the services I use. Started using Outlook and Skydrive.

~~~
yeukhon
Outlook interface is the worst. I have been using it because my school is
using it. Every two months or so I see new frontend changes. The
style/font/color jesus christ. No. Just no. As much as I dislike some of the
recent changes in the gmail interface, overall Gmail is still quite usable.

And if one doesn't trust Gmail then why would one trust Outlook or Yahoo Mail?

The one thing I complain the most about GDrive is only one account is allowed
to log in and use google drive. I just don't understand why Google engineers
haven't fix this issue.

~~~
JacobSkyler
>Outlook interface is the worst.

I haven't had an issue with it, and I've been using Outlook.com pretty much
since it came out. Before then I was using the Windows Live Mail desktop
client and before then I was using Gmail.

~~~
yeukhon
It's all subjective, frontend stuff. But it's ugly. Really ugly. The font, the
color scheme, default all effing ugly.

A bug I encounter is when I click on an unread email, and if I then refresh
the page the email is still mark unread, unless I read that email and hover to
another email. Th

~~~
danishabdullah
Weird, I have never encountered this bug and I have been on outlook.com since
the beta days. Perhaps, you temporarily had bad connectivity?

Also, I will have to disagree on the design part. I find outlook.com
refreshing. For me, that's just about right. Minimal, if any, bells and
whistles.

------
CurtMonash
If I heard convincing stories of a good client, I'd use that. But I've used
Gmail's web interface for years, with reasonable happiness. And yeah, the
anti-spam rocks.

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locusm
GMail keyboard shortcuts FTW! Love em. j-j-j-enter-v-"Fo"-enter

= Move down 3 items, open email, move to "Follow up" folder

When you have lots of folders drag n drop is totally useless compared to this.

~~~
na85
Awesome. Didn't know about these.

Here's a list for the lazy:
[https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6594?hl=en](https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6594?hl=en)

~~~
MarkSweep
You can also type a question mark to bring up a list in GMail. Be aware this
list can scroll.

------
joelrunyon
Okay - what are the real alternatives to gmail?

-Outlook.com

-Ymail.com

-Hushmail.com

-Fastmail.fm

\---

Of the above - the only one I've heard great things about is fastmail.

Can anyone else add to this list? (I'll try to update it).

~~~
pcurve
I'm surprised at the negative feedback Outlook is getting on this board. Have
you tried Outlook recently? It's very good.

Compared to Google's rather cryptic UI (which has gotten even more cryptic
over the years), Outlook UI is refreshingly simple and clear.

~~~
danishabdullah
Completely agree. Sometimes I wonder whether people here actually use the
products that think suck or just repeat whatever they have heard elsewhere.

~~~
baldfat
BUT why are you leaving Google???? You are leaving Google to go into the arms
of Microsoft????

------
na85
Abandon Gmail for Outlook? Surely the author jests.

~~~
snogglethorpe
His arguments are amazingly unconvincing, and he attempts to sweep by far the
most important point for most people—whether or not Gmail is a good mail
client or not—away with random hand-waving: "Meanwhile, its interface is as
stale and frustrating as ever". Er, no, David, it's not (and never was).

Where does ZDNET find these bozos?

As far as I can tell, this is ZDNET hastily attempting to get some clicks by
pandering to the youtube rage-quitting brigade.

Business as usual for them I suppose, but why do people post this crap to HN?

~~~
na85
I've been downmodded heavily elsewhere onsite for suggesting that HNers love
to hate google because of hipster mentality, so that clearly can't be it...

~~~
ars_technician
>I've been downmodded heavily elsewhere onsite for suggesting that HNers love
to hate google because of hipster mentality

Because it's a stupid reason. You would get the same response if you suggested
that the reason was that HNers love to hate google because they hate logos
with color in them.

~~~
na85
I think that if you examine the meta on HN dispassionately you'll see it's
actually a very good reason.

It often gets couched in different language, but a great deal of HNers have a
large dislike of HN because of either groupthink or mainstream-aversion.

------
pakitan
Can anyone recommend a spam filtering solution (doesn't matter if free or
paid) that can match Google's? Spam filtering is the main reason I'm staying
with gmail and from my limited experience, SpamAssassin can't even come close
to it.

------
adamnemecek
Is it just me or has gmail got REALLY slow for anyone else in the last 3
months as well? As in sometimes it might take like a minute to open an email.
I was hoping that it was some temporary issue but it does not seem to be going
away.

~~~
themodelplumber
I use (hourly) both regular GMail and apps for domains, and I haven't noticed
anything like that. A minute to open an email seems like it would be really
noticeable, too.

~~~
adamnemecek
It's not always but it seems to be mostly with unread emails but sometimes
with read emails as well.

~~~
seanc722
Have had no problems lately either :S

------
hkmurakami
_> In its four years of life, Gmail has changed from embodying anti-Microsoft
panache to being a gateway drug for Google’s online services._

Pretty strange that one of the panelists chose not to include the "beta" years
of GMail.

------
Osmium
I know Fastmail read HN, so I'm just going to use this as an opportunity
(again) to say: please support push notifications on iOS! I _know_ it's
Apple's fault, and they should support IDLE, but that's not the point. The
point is that thanks to Gmail no longer supporting push for non-business email
accounts on iOS, there's now a gap in the market, and I really really want to
be able to use Fastmail to fill that gap. But I won't be renewing my
subscription if they can't support push...

------
rdtsc
Anyone have anything to say about fastmail? I have been hearing about it
lately.

~~~
coffeecheque
I've been using it for several months now. I really like it. It's fast, and
reliable. I made the move, and haven't (really) looked back.

The spam filtering isn't as good though. I've had a few false positives and
false negatives. I don't get much spam, so it's not hard to have a quick look
in the spam folder. Wish I didn't have to do this though.

I like paying for the product. It's nice to know my emails aren't being
scanned to build up a profile on me. It's nice to know that I am a customer
(of the traditional kind). I haven't had to use support yet, but it's there.
Unlike Gmail.

I originally moved because I grew uneasy with the amount of information I had
with Google. Now, I have none. A small win for me, but Google doesn't care.
Ultimately, make the decision on the whole "best tool for the job" argument.

~~~
rdtsc
Thanks!

------
chmars
Gmail is IMHO still the best mail provider – and in combination with Google
App for Business, the best groupware provider.

I have tested many alternatives but I still mostly use Gmail. The reasons are
mostly the feature set, the pricing, the security and the storage capacity.

There are only two major annoyances in my daily use: More and more Google+
integration, lacking IMAP support. The latter lead me to use Google's own apps
or Google-specific browsers like Mailplane.

For heavy mail (and groupware) users, they only other alternatives is
Exchange. Outlook.com/Office 365 is OK but very 'Microsofty', Hosted Exchange
is a complete disaster.

------
niggasbalting
It's time for a worthwhile alternative.

~~~
espadrine
Better yet, a worthwhile reinvention of the concept. I am hopeful with
DarkMail, even though the name isn't very catchy. SecMail would sound much
better.

------
exodust
Abandon Gmail for Outlook.com? After suffering through the mega-fail Games for
Windows Live, real suffering: constant restarting and sign-in needed, really
slow, really annoying update cycles, terrible support procedures; kinda worked
when you went through hell... sorta thing.

After that torture, I'm reluctant to trust MS web email. I'm sure a different
mob did the email application from the GFWL mess, but I won't rush over. I'd
use Yahoo above Outlook. Yahoo email seems reliable enough, not too painful.

------
liyanchang
Alternate question:

Is there room for a 3rd-party Gmail web client, in the same way that Mailbox
is a 3rd-party Gmail iOS client?

~~~
XorNot
I use Gmail through Thunderbird on the desktop and K-9 Mail on my phone.

I don't touch the web client at all except to set filtering rules.

------
cenhyperion
I'm going to toss this up here as it looks like a really cool solution to self
host. I haven't used it.
[https://github.com/al3x/sovereign](https://github.com/al3x/sovereign)

------
_pmf_
Like the 26 previous times we had no choice but to leave Gmail, right?

------
cLeEOGPw
Would anyone use peer-to-peer email service, that could send/receive to/from
any other email provider and could be accessed also via web page, if there
would be one?

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tspradeepkumar
Yeah, Most of the govt organisations too block gmails because of the data it
holds.....

------
kolleykibber
Anybody else think this is suspicious given the current outlook.com
advertising campaign?

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khnd
i've been using it in html mode. it's not so bad!

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Navarr
"No"

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JRDGRS
LOL!

