
Farmers, Elephants, and Bees - jeffbarson
http://animals.oreilly.com/elephants-and-bees/
======
Zikes
Man, that's a crazy good idea. First, it's 85% effective in solving the
elephant problem; second, free honey which makes the fence a profitable
venture in its own right; and third, the bees will pollinate the crops they're
protecting, potentially maximizing crop yield.

~~~
zeteo
Free honey? Beekeeping is actually a lot of work (especially when the hives
are spread out like this). Also they say it's _up to_ 85% effective, so that's
the maximum not the average.

~~~
masklinn
> Free honey? Beekeeping is actually a lot of work

True, but you can decide your tradeoff: if you don't want or need much honey,
don't gather it. The bees will be healtier as well, as a result.

~~~
fghh45sdfhr3
Am I the only one to whom consecutive replies like this sound like one's own
thinking process?

~~~
acc00
Why yes, that one's called "hivemind."

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nostromo
The original problem is that farms are blocking elephant migration paths. "The
elephants’ key migratory routes have been cut off in many places."

And now you've replaced a fence that they can break through with a fence made
of bees. Yes, this is probably good for the humans, but I don't see how it's
better for the elephants.

~~~
rosser
From TFA, above the photo of Ms. King standing next to a hive fence, "The
farmers leave wide pathways between their crops so elephants can move past the
fences along their migratory routes."

~~~
nostromo
Thanks, I didn't see that paragraph. (Perhaps my eye thought it was a
caption.)

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TallGuyShort
Brilliant! I'm a little confused by this line though:

>> If an elephant makes contact with one of the hives or the connecting wires,
the beehives all along the fence will swing and release the bees.

The first part made it sound like elephants would stay away from this
perimeter just because there was an active beehive, so it's unlikely the
elephant would get close to the fence anyway. But then if it does, wouldn't
the sudden release of all bees drive the elephant into a panic precisely when
it's choices are to run into the field or away from the fence? Or am I just
misunderstanding something?

~~~
maxmcd
I was confused about this as well. The construction manual is much more
specific. More information on page 4:
[http://www.elephantsandbees.com/research_project/Beehive_Fen...](http://www.elephantsandbees.com/research_project/Beehive_Fence_files/Beehive%20Fence%20Construction%20Manual%202012%20%28small%29.pdf)

It seems that fences are set up to prevent elephants from entering entirely.
Although they are spaced widely (and a weak breakaway trip wire is strung from
hive to hive), so that if an elephant is trapped, or approaches the fence
violently, it can still pass through without damaging the hives.

I'm guessing that has to do with their 85% effectiveness. Most of the time the
fences work, but when they don't they want to minimize hive damage.

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msandford
I wish there was some way for her to profit off of the idea not for the sake
of getting rich but to encourage others to take a look at solving other
problems. Profits as signalling rather than for the sake of profits.

~~~
frogpelt
Interesting notion. You want her to profit but not to get rich. It's amazing
how being rich has been demonized by society of late.

Profit for the sake of profit works as signalling just as well as any other
profit.

~~~
freehunter
He said "not for the sake of getting rich". This indicates he's okay with her
being rich, but he hopes she becomes rich for the sake of helping with an
innovative idea rather than pure profit-mongering.

~~~
frogpelt
The phrase "profit-mongering" also shows that you demonize wealth unless you
agree with the recipient's intentions.

Markets should be designed to reward people who produce and serve others well.
When a market rewards someone or a group of people for producing and serving
well, it should not be demonized. If what they are producing or serving is
counter to the good of society then society must adapt laws and regulations to
prevent those products and services from being distributed.

To pretend that a bee fence deserves more reward from the market than a soft
drink formula simply because it makes you feel better inside is not a
sustainable economic model.

~~~
freehunter
I don't know what your agenda is, but you're assuming an awful lot about me
and the other guy. You're reading things we never wrote, and it's quite
irritating. Because I use the term "profit mongering" means I demonize wealth?
I don't think so, and I'd appreciate you not to insult me like that. I think
it's pretty easy to understand what we're saying. You seem to be being
intentionally dense, or intentionally argumentative. I'm not sure which.

Society adopting laws and regulations depends on there being a respectable
society to being with. Laws will only get you as far as their enforcement.
It's incredibly easy to take advantage of a poorer person than yourself just
because you have the upper hand. I'm not talking the difference between bee
farms and soft drinks, I'm talking the difference between helping farmers set
up these fences themselves and forcing farmers to set these up while demanding
half their profits forever in return. But you completely understand that,
don't you?

The phrase "because it makes" shows that you are going to stop being pointless
unless you have a valid argument to bring to the table. To quote The Big
Lebowski: You're not wrong, you're just an asshole.

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grimtrigger
I have to wonder, why are these kind of solutions driven by outside players
instead of local communities? Is there some kind of informational advantage
the locals don't have? Elephants scares bees seems so simple that I'm not sure
why locals weren't already doing it.

~~~
DanBC
Lots of ideas seem really simple with the benefit of hindsight.

Here's an idea that took someone 30 years to come up with.

([http://www.irinnews.org/Report/94996/GLOBAL-Follow-the-
fizz-...](http://www.irinnews.org/Report/94996/GLOBAL-Follow-the-fizz-save-a-
life))

But it's really obvious! Why wasn't anyone doing this before?

~~~
notahacker
This is brilliant. Why aren't the likes of Coca Cola doing it on a wider
scale?

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apalmer
I like the ingenuity of it, seems pretty counter intuitive though. I mean
keeping the elephants away by bring swarms of african killer bees into close
proximity with humans... not sure if the trade off is worth it. There is a
reason elephants are afraid of them.

That being said I am sure the farmers understand the risks more than I do, if
they are down with it seems like a good solution

~~~
durkie
"Killer" is a misnomer -- in the beekeeping community, for obvious reasons,
they prefer the term "africanized". And it is likely that these bees, being in
Africa, are or will very soon be africanized.

But it is still possible to safely and enjoyably keep and tend Africanized
bees -- you just require some extra precautions, like smoking the hell out of
them when you're working the hive, and leaving your protective gear on even
after you're far from the hive.

A friend of mine did beekeeping in Paraguay through the Peace Corps (the last
country featuring a Peace Corps beekeeping program), and said bees would still
be ramming his face veil, even after walking several kilometers away from the
hive.

That was, however, after he had been working them for anywhere from a few
minutes to a few hours. Generally bees don't bother you if you're not
bothering them. And if they do, you might just wear a veil when harvesting the
crops closest to the fence.

~~~
apalmer
I understand that 'killer' is a misnomer, in fact i debated the use of the
term but in the end chose to use it precisely because a lot of the posters in
this thread don't seem to be aware that (most?) common african bee variant is
what we generally refer to as the killer bee.

To go from occasionally having an interaction with Elephants, to everyday
working your field in close proximity to highly aggressive bees that
relatively commonly swarm intruders.. is not a guaranteed win. I don't know
enough to evaluate the trade off and I said as much.

~~~
gyepi
I have kept bees in West Africa. In my experience, African bees are a bit more
defensive than European bees but they are by no means "killer" bees.

Certainly, there is no more risk (from the bees, anyway) to maintaining a bee
hive in Africa than one in the US. In fact, I am frequently amazed at how much
less protective gear African bee keepers use.

Also, I find that hive bees tend to be generally less aggressive than their
wild cousins and can co-exist just fine with people. It is not at all uncommon
for hives to be situated on farms or near houses.

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scrapcode
This is what innovation _actually_ looks like.

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666_howitzer
I would have just used loud speakers which made "buzz" sound , hooked it onto
a motion sensor and PV for power. Voila! Problem solved.

~~~
protomyth
That tends to get you "the boy who cried wolf" effect and is often eventually
ignored by animals.

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gcb0
it all makes it sound like taking care of 200 hives per Km is an effortless
task.

~~~
lostlogin
Not effortless and not easy - but not unrewarded. Farms pay to have hives for
pollination here - a weekly fee.

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Ihmahr
85% effective, but once the elephant is in he might not want to go out.

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leeoniya
i wonder what happens in the 15% of cases when it's not effective, do the
destroyed bees nests unleash a swarm of African bees on all bystanders?

~~~
grecy
..and do the elephants get tangled up in the wires connecting the separate
hives?

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rhjacmason
good idea

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13b9f227ecf0
I'm sick of near daily hearing about white people "helping" Africans and
African animals. Let the Africans run Africa in their own way.

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milliams
Bees?!

