
Stripe now supports ACH payments - craigkerstiens
https://stripe.com/blog/accept-ach-payments
======
spenczar5
When I last worked on a billing system about three years ago, we looked _so_
hard to find an ACH provider. There was just nothing out there. This is an
enormous advance.

The problem we had was that we issued moderately large invoices monthly - they
could be from $1k to $50k. We wanted to be paid quickly, so we tried to
convince our customers to pay by credit card (through Stripe) and enable
automatic payments, but we had trouble when customers would bump up against
credit card limits.

So, for our bigger clients, we were relegated to asking for checks to be sent
by mail. This meant we couldn't automatically charge customers every month,
and instead needed to badger them to send their check - all of a sudden, we
needed an accounts receivable _team_. We couldn't just ignore the problem
since these were our _biggest_ accounts, too.

Stripe's pricing is almost comically friendly here - credit card transactions
are usually in the ballpark of 2.7% + $0.30, so even when card limits weren't
an issue, we'd be paying out the nose on the transaction - 2.7% of $10k is
$270. The new ACH payments would cost just $5.

Anyways, this is a serious accomplishment. The underlying banking regulations
and technologies around ACH are thorny. Good job, Stripe!

~~~
DrJokepu
It's insane how expensive financial transactions are in the United States. In
the UK, the equivalent of an ACH transaction would be a BACS payment, which
costs roughly 30p ($0.45) for a small business per transaction, although some
banks will do them for free. Many smaller businesses however would just use
Faster Payments Service for payments under £10K, which is like wire transfers
in America, except they rarely cost more than 25p ($0.35) and once again, many
banks will process FPS payments for free for small businesses.

~~~
tomschlick
It's because of all the fraud on the backend they have to fight. I'm sure
banks would like nothing more than to have a simple system where they only
charge half as much but net 2x the transactions. Lots of overhead with fraud.

~~~
toomuchtodo
It's not. It's because the largest banks are all stakeholders in the Automated
Clearing House system, they make far higher margins on faster out of band
methods (wire transfers), therefore it doesn't behoove them to improve.

There is some progress being made though, slowly and painfully.

[http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/10/04/229224964/episo...](http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/10/04/229224964/episode-489-the-
invisible-plumbing-of-our-economy)

~~~
jslampe
I should also note that there is powerful Fed-chartered initiative, called the
Faster Payments Task Force, going on right now. It combines +300 of the
nation's payment stakeholders (including big banks, networks, retailers, etc).
We've made a ton of meaningful progress on speed, standards, and more.

Big news coming in the next few weeks...

(learn more at
[https://fedpaymentsimprovement.org/](https://fedpaymentsimprovement.org/))

~~~
toomuchtodo
Thanks for the effort, and for posting this.

------
artursapek
In college I worked part-time for a music social network startup that sold
songs and paid artists a commission, kind of like iTunes. I had to write a
cron job that would issue the artist payouts every night by writing ACH files
in plaintext and SFTPing them to SVB.

3 years later it's great to see Stripe providing this, but I will always have
an oddly fond memory of working on that. It felt so obscure and unnecessarily
difficult.

~~~
protomyth
> It felt so obscure and unnecessarily difficult.

I earned a bit of money in the 90's doing a lot of those types of data
transfers. I get the feeling 70% of IT is just data munging.

~~~
IanCal
> I get the feeling 70% of IT is just data munging.

The remaining 30% is, as far as I can tell, fixing bugs in the data munging
code.

~~~
protomyth
Leave some room for the UI folks - although that is basically getting humans
to munge the data as a pre-step for the computer munging.

------
BHSPitMonkey
The UI component presenting the login form for major banks is troubling. It
seems like encouraging users to feel comfortable entering their online banking
credentials into anything other than their bank's web site is a bad move.

~~~
ltrcola
Until banks get developer friendly and support OAuth, I'm not sure what else
you could do if you want real time verification. I guess micro deposits could
still work if you had faster rails, but ACH is still a batch process.

~~~
jgalt212
> Until banks get developer friendly and support OAuth

We may wait a long time for that one.

~~~
jslampe
Not necessarily. BBVA has already this with Dwolla's real-time payment tech,
FiSync. (Limited, I know, but it's the only cool proof of concept like it out
in the wild)

Also, there's been a lot of work done through the Fed's remittance coalition
on a supradirectory for destinations. Adding authentication capabilities would
be the next logical step and they've already committed to using open standards
(lots of ISO stuff to compete with though). Combined with whisperings of big
bank projects and JP Morgan's CEO very vocal hatred for screen scraping, Oauth
could be a powerful and quick-to-market alternative.

------
rwmurrayVT
I hate to see this honestly. Stripe is already notoriously vulnerable to
credit card fraud and this is likely not helping their cause.

I'd love to know how long you should expect for an ACH payment to clear and
into your bank account. The two day period for credit cards is so small. Who
checks their statements every single day? This is obviously the benefit of
using Stripe if you're the merchant, but it leaves you vulnerable.

We can only pray that Stripe accepts some responsibility for verifying these
ACH transfers.

Fraud on Stripe is a two-fold problem. They've got fraudsters signing up for
Stripe accounts and running cards through them. They've also got fraudsters
making purchases on Stripe-based sites. Obviously, Stripe prefers that the
charges are made to legitimate users. That way they're not out all the money.

Edit: It appears it could take "up to 5 days" for the payments to be
processed. This is entirely on the bank's side of the equation. I guess from
there you'll only need to wait your 2 days (7 days for some users) to receive
the ACH into your bank account. I see massive fraud coming in here.

~~~
zachperret
Plaid co-founder here. When users connect their accounts via the Plaid instant
verification process, we actually allow developers to get a greater
understanding of the user. Via Plaid, you can do things like validate the
available balance and check the account owner's identity -- which can
significantly reduce the likelihood of ACH fraud.

~~~
mapgrep
Wait, so if I pay someone with ACH, they get to see how much money is in my
bank account? WTF?

~~~
zrail
No. Plaid instant verification uses your bank login info to get the ACH
numbers along with current balance, etc. You can't get that just with account
and routing number.

~~~
FireBeyond
Yeah, like I mentioned upstream, not sure why any developer should have access
to my account balance...

~~~
mateosu
I mean, these are fintech companies we're talking about here. If you're
signing up for these services your generally already deciding to trust the
company with personal data. Plus, you still have to login to your online
banking with Plaid, it's not like developers have unlimited, unauthorized
access to you r account balance and transaction information.

~~~
FireBeyond
There's a difference between - "I am paying you with ACH routing and account
information" and "The payment platform exposes, to the app, my account
balances". A huge difference.

------
fblp
Glad to see Stripe release this, but the $5.00 fee cap doesn't seem
competitive for frequent large transactions compared to other providers that
have a flat fees from $0.25 like Dwolla, with more listed here
[http://www.merchantmaverick.com/need-know-accepting-ach-
paym...](http://www.merchantmaverick.com/need-know-accepting-ach-payments/).
Why the higher cost?

~~~
pc
Dwolla also charges monthly fees:
[https://www.dwolla.com/pricing](https://www.dwolla.com/pricing). You need to
pay $1,500 a month in order to charge more than 10 bank accounts.

In general, most providers have a lot of fine-print. We tried to come up the
simplest and fairest pricing we could.

~~~
jacobsimon
Still, it seems unusual to charge a percentage fee. From what I understand,
one of the main benefits of ACH over credit cards is the flat fee structure.

~~~
0xffff2
Compared to credit cards, $5 is pretty flat isn't it?

------
lsh123
From a consumer perspective, paying via ACH is much more dangerous compared to
paying with a credit card. In case of fraud (e.g. hacked payment provider),
recovering from ACH fraud is much harder than recovering from a credit card
fraud. While you will likely get your money back at the end, it is also likely
that you will spend many months talking to your bank (not to mention returned
checks or other payments in the meantime).

Overall, I strongly recommend to NEVER pay via ACH from an account that is
used for other purposes. Personally I have a special account at my bank just
for rare ACH payments I need to make. I can transfer money instantly from my
primary account when I need to make a payment. And of course this special
account has all the overdraft protections, etc. disabled.

------
wesleyfsmith
Making this system integrate with Plaid out of the box was a smart move. Plaid
is so much better for users' than having to manually enter bank account and
routing numbers.

------
tomschlick
Looks like the TOS acceptance button on this page is spitting out a 500 error
[https://stripe.com/docs/guides/ach](https://stripe.com/docs/guides/ach)

~~~
pc
Sorry about that -- this only affects a small number of users, but we'll have
it fixed momentarily.

~~~
raycmorgan
This has now been fixed. Sorry again for the trouble!

~~~
tomschlick
Thanks! Just confirmed it's working.

------
Frozenlock
> "And so, today, we’re delighted to launch support for ACH payments for all
> U.S. Stripe users."

Any ETAs for international? More particularly Canadaland?

~~~
petercooper
Hopefully they'll get there. We're a UK based company with 90% of our revenue
from US based enterprises, so moving to this would be awesome :)

------
jblake
I wish the pricing was more competitive. In the US, I've used Beanstream -
which is $5/mo + $0.25 flat per transfer. In Canada I've used Versapay - $0/mo
+ $1 per transfer.

------
fideloper
This is super important for b2b companies that need to accept payments of
multiple thousands of dollars (e.g. Annual subscription / support), which
largerish companies typically will not hand over a cc for, either due to CC
limitations or (usually) internal process red tape.

~~~
tyingq
I would say both yes, and no.

My experience in B2B is that medium to large companies will want to pay you
via ACH. However they have little to no interest in entering their online
banking ID and password into something like what Stripe is providing.

They already make ACH payments, using their own tools, and all they want from
you is your routing and account number so they can do so. Assuming you are a
US company, with a US bank account, you've already been able to accept ACH
payments in this way for some time.

This setup from Stripe seems to be targeted at consumers, or maybe small
business owners, as the purchaser. I'm sure that's a need, but probably not a
huge one. Many of my customers that are medium/large businesses want to make
ACH payments, almost none of the small businesses have an interest in that.

~~~
pcunite
This is my experience too. When a customer wants to buy my product and the
cost is over $5K, I give them the following and it shows up in my bank in
about 3 days or so.

Bank Address, Swift Code, Account Number, Routing Number.

------
ck2
Wait, is there no minimum?

Because 0.8% on very small amounts is very practical for micro payments.

$1 payment would cost a fraction of a penny.

What am I missing?

This will be game changing if my observation is correct.

~~~
oddevan
I'd wager the only thing you're missing is the high friction involved in
setting up a bank account. I've got my credit card stored in my password
manager vault, and even if not, I've got that sucker memorized. Contrast that
with digging through the clutter on multiple horizontal surfaces in our house
to find a checkbook so I can find the routing number and account number,
waiting for the two deposits to show up (because I use a small bank that
hardly ever shows up on these "automatically authenticate" lists), and then
trying to remember what I was trying to spend $1 on...

But that's literally the only problem. The fee structure is AWESOME for micro-
payments, so for the right things (small subscriptions?) this could be
amazing.

~~~
jedberg
But once you've set up your bank account once, it will work on every site that
takes Stripe.

That's the big sell as a merchant -- chances are your user is already
configured for payments. And the larger their network grows the more likely
this is true.

~~~
nemothekid
I'm pretty sure this isn't true. If both Merchant A and Merchant B are using
stripe, and I authorize my bank with Merchant A, that doesn't mean my bank is
authorized with Merchant B.

Especially because in most cases, you can be totally transparent with the fact
that you are using Stripe.

------
whazor
Non-USA person here, I am amazed that this is even allowed. Giving your
username and password to a third party? Think about all the security problems,
like creating a fake Stripe. You are basically trusting every website you use.
In my opinion, there should be a free and open protocol between banks for
payments. Where you get redirected after you clicked on the pay button.

------
arohner
Can this be used, or setup in a way that supports the standard invoicing
model?

i.e. I want an api call to email a .pdf to a customer, and then have them
"click this link and enter your info to pay via checking account". Several
kinds of customers, including consulting, would be much happier with a "push"
model of paying, than a "pull" model.

~~~
jaredtking
Our startup, Invoiced, does exactly this. You can easily send invoices through
our API [1] that customers can pay from the email. Now that Stripe ACH
payments have been released we will be supporting it in the near future.

[1] [https://invoiced.com/docs/api/#send-an-
invoice](https://invoiced.com/docs/api/#send-an-invoice)

------
dang
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10889918](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10889918)
looks like another announcement about this. It was posted slightly later so
we'll treat it as the duplicate in this case.

Eventually we'll have some form of URL grouping when there are multiple
stories on a topic.

------
wesleyfsmith
I am trying to build a lending platform where we by definition cannot afford
to lose 3% on each transaction. I'm am thrilled to see this. We have had to
hand jam our current system with a local credit union (where we literally have
to print out forms and bring it to them), so being able to switch to a fully
programmatic system is awesome.

------
itsthisjustin
Just got my beta invite too. Got frustrated at the lack of an easy ACH
payments platform long ago though and went ahead and made my own. Launched
[http://paynote.io](http://paynote.io) on January 1st of this year.

~~~
niij
This looks very interesting. Tell me more! How are you offsetting the cost of
fraud when payments by fraudsters will cost them nothing?

~~~
itsthisjustin
Well it's not for ecommerce for one thing. So fraud will be a lot less just in
terms of use case here. This is individuals and companies are paying invoices
for services rendered. There's not an area where a fraudster would gain a lot
from a fraudulent payment. The ACH Payment system I'm using is also FDIC
insured up to 250k.

~~~
0xEFF
Is this for real? I just started a consulting business and have been searching
for a good, inexpensive way to receive relatively large payments on my
invoices. How are you going to make money? Is this good up to $50K?

EDIT: I just tried to sign up, and this seems _really_ scammy. You need a
photo ID uploaded, along with my bank account details? How do I have any
assurance you're not going to drain my bank account?

~~~
itsthisjustin
Interesting you find that scammy. It is for real though. I'm a consultant and
it's been a real pain trying to collect large payments without getting killed
on fees. The information is required by law by the patriot act for any bank
transfers done over the internet. I can't get around it. It's required by law
and by my ACH provider.

~~~
0xEFF
I hear you. I'm not saying it _is_ scammy, just saying my scam-radar pinged
pretty loudly.

I'm all for ease-of use, but the flow went:

* Ah, a new service I could use!

* Sign up, cool, that was easy. Just needed my email.

* Verified my email with the 6 digit code, that's cool, sorta like Square.

* Sign in... Verify identity... OK, that makes sense. Hang on a tick, you want a copy of my ID? That's the first thing I'm asked for? Who's asking?

It's the who's asking bit that made me stop in my tracks.

I'm in the same boat and have eaten the high fees in order to get paid quickly
when I was first starting out. It's a great service, if it's for real...

------
kyriakos
Stripe should start supporting the rest of the world. I'd love to use their
services.

~~~
mcollier000
GoCardless is another ycombinator business providing a very similar platform
for the whole of the UK & Europe.
[https://gocardless.com/](https://gocardless.com/)

------
chadkruse
@pc - curious if you have plans to integrate ACH into your Checkout product.
Seems like an incredibly difficult UX problem, but I'm sure your folks are up
to the challenge :)

~~~
pc
No immediate plans. ACH is _mostly_ popular for B2B use-cases whereas Checkout
is optimized for "lightweight" transactions. You can obviously imagine cases
where an integration would be useful but we decided not to hold up the launch
in order to build that. We'll calibrate based on feedback going forward.

~~~
rwmurrayVT
@pc How do you feel about the assumed fraud risk you are taking on with this?
I'd love to have a conversation with you about it (in private). You can email
me at rwmurray (@) vt.edu. I know you all have quite a few vulnerabilities in
your system and can't ever find a way to share them.

~~~
pc
You should definitely email the fraud team! Try mlm@stripe.com. (Feel free to
CC me; patrick@stripe.com.)

------
Eliezer
Did micropayments suddenly become possible for the first time? Would this be a
great service to charge 1000 users $0.10 each? Or for that matter, for selling
ebooks?

~~~
dtwhitney
I think it would need to support payments in the opposite direction too --
deposits into someone's account. I'd love to see this!

~~~
matthewarkin
Stripe Connect allows sending money to other peoples account

~~~
BillinghamJ
Other people's Stripe accounts yes, but not just arbitrary accounts.

~~~
matthewarkin
With Managed Accounts you can create accounts for other people via the API
that besides for a line in your terms of service they don't need to be aware
of Stripe for.

------
joshmn
Just an FYI to everyone accepting payments: Fighting chargebacks for ACH
payments is a lot harder than just calling up a cardholder's bank. With Stripe
now making ACH payments easier, I suspect the card shops " " will see a rise
in routing/account numbers for sale.

And as always, just a friendly reminder Stripe's "fraud protection" is beyond
trivial to get circumvent, so don't think they're doing you a favor.

------
mschuster91
From what I gather from the comments, you as customer have to log in into your
bank's online banking portal to initiate the transfers.

Don't you US guys have an equivalent to SEPA direct debits where I just give
the IBAN bank account number and the merchant will automatically deduct the
money from my account?

If so, then no wonder why US people are so dependent on credit cards...

------
Brushfire
This is great.

Next up: I'd love to see true Debit card transactions (i.e. With Pin) at Debit
prices (perhaps 10-30c regardless of transaction size). That could really
enable a ton of smaller items to be sold to a very large audience.

------
ROFISH
So is it possible for simple ACH->ACH deposits? I'm looking to take out of my
bank account and put into another (royalty payments for the curious). Ideally
without having to hold a Stripe balance, just simple xfer.

~~~
matthewarkin
You could take a look at combining ACH and Stripe Connect.

------
kevindeasis
So with ACH I can directly bill my customers' account. ACH lets me to bill
them for multiple or single payment. So, with these I can do person to
person(p2p), business to business (b2b), and business to consumers(b2c)

That is cool.

------
coupdejarnac
Somewhat offtopic- is there a way to use Stripe to hold payment in escrow or
to authorize a payment more than 7 days in advance? I really like Stripe,
though I am not sure it can do what I need.

~~~
matthewarkin
Using Stripe Connect and Managed Accounts you can hold funds for 30 days. Its
not legally escrow though (escrow tends to have a specific legal definition
and set of rules).

------
staticautomatic
Praise Jesus I've been waiting for this.

------
thedogeye
We've been using the beta for about 6 months and find it to be incredibly
reliable. Thanks Stripe people.

------
calgaryeng
Is there an ETA on availability in Canada?

~~~
itsthisjustin
Definitely working on international. You will be able to accept payments (not
send) this week in the form of a paper check mailed to you. So when you claim,
just check the box for mail me a paper check and you'll get one in the mail
once the payment clears.

------
dubcanada
I wonder if this means Interac Online will come soon :O that's a very big deal
for the Canadian market.

~~~
tomschlick
Hopefully. I've had to integrate with that in the past and it was not a fun
project.

I faintly remember them passing back html to inject to the user that contained
iframes and a bunch of other junk javascript.

------
needusername
So does the ACH do settlement rather than clearing as the name suggests?

------
orliesaurus
Sooooo as someone who used to live in the UK, should GoCardless tremble ?

------
throway1234
n00b alert: Can someone ELI5 differences between the solutions/products
offered by Stripe and other payment related companies like Square, Braintree?

------
rw2
This opens up so much

