

Women are leaving the tech industry in droves - cgoodmac
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-women-tech-20150222-story.html

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WaltPurvis
The article begins by introducing Ana Redmond, who "launched into a technology
career ... well-equipped to succeed ... In 2011, after 15 years, she left
before achieving a management position."

The article ends by telling us "Redmond now runs her own business making
educational apps for children."

I'm sorry, but how does founding a company that builds apps count as "leaving
the tech industry"?

I'm sure women face many subtle and not-so-subtle issues working in tech,
because it is very much a boys' club, but I'm not so sure about the analytical
merits of this article.

~~~
ameister14
The other woman they were talking about is an engineer at Pinterest - she
didn't leave the tech industry either.

------
renaudg
_His black pants wearing bosses told him he 'd built it without permission.
Then they said only architects within the company could pitch features — and
all the architects were wearing black pants !_

"Clearly this is not a coincidence. It has nothing to do with this company
just being dysfunctional and unwelcoming of individual initiatives or
anything, no : this _has got to be_ discrimination against people wearing blue
pants like myself ! This would definitely _never_ happen to my colleagues who
prefer black pants. I'm sure you can find other stories of blue pants-wearing
people like myself who at least once didn't get that promotion, and make a
nice article about it with a catchy headline. Go to work, journalist !"

Gender discrimination in tech might exist, but it will take more than
anecdotal stories like these thrown together to establish causation.

Any white male developer with some big corp experience will have experienced
the frustrating situation described above. This is the control group, and it
says your "gender" variable in that particular experiment is BS.

Some white males never get "that" promotion either, I'm sure you can find
enough of them to make a nice article about it. They just don't have the
opportunity of blaming it on their genitals nor do they have support groups
dedicated to them.

The constant use of fallacies and sensationalism by well-meaning (and less
well-meaning) feminists is doing a disservice to taking these issues seriously
where they do exist, IMHO.

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codeddesign
I'm sorry, but I don't see the issue. I continue to see article after article
about women not being in the tech space, but being in corp. tech for over 10
years - outside of larger conservative tech companies such as IBM, the issue
isn't that women cannot obtain advancement but more so of the ratio of
woman/men in the tech sector. Should I be upset that when I go for my checkup,
that I see primarily Asian doctors? Are they getting greater advancement
because they are Asian? Or it is the fact that 1 segment of the population has
a larger number entering that space?

"Her male bosses told her she'd built it without permission. Then they said
only architects within the company could pitch features — and all the
architects were male."

^^ As a white male, I had recently done this in my job and was told the same.
Our protocol as that we are required to request permission prior to developing
new features. This is not uncommon.

"It's why the industry is so eager to hire women and minorities. For decades
tech companies have relied on a workforce of whites and Asians, most of them
men."

 __facepalm __Really? Where are the women who are crying out for equal rights?
As a white male, I would assume companies would seek the best that they could
find, rather than seek to locate a segment of the population that is less
inclined to enter the tech space.

This is just a poorly written article to draw in readers, and a few instances
of people that had bad experiences in their own workplace rather than industry
facts. We are have bad experiences in life and work, regardless of our sex,
age, race, or religion. While I am not saying that it does not happen, I am
saying that this is a "junk" piece created for readership that is pro woman
man slapping.

~~~
sliverstorm
_the issue isn 't that women cannot obtain advancement but more so of the
ratio of woman/men in the tech sector._

I definitely feel this way when I contemplate the possibility of a glass
ceiling at my office. There are no high level female execs. But on the other
hand, there is only one recent female new hire (contrasted to 10-20 recent
male new hires)

Considering the natural funnel to upper management, it seems abundantly clear
the lack-of-female-execs problem, wherever it may be, is not in our promotion
system. Maybe it's in hiring. Maybe it's in school. But it doesn't seem to be
in promotion.

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zenpaul
The facts of article don't support the headline, since the numbers they
reference are for total female percentages, not attrition numbers. Sounds to
me that it's not that they're leaving, but they didn't get there in the first
place.

What got me was the last quote from Garann Means - "The main thing would be
professionalism. Just being able to treat each other with respect would be
huge."

Those words echo exactly what my wife says almost daily, and she is a non-tech
manager at a non-tech company.

~~~
kevin_thibedeau
Barbie taught a generation that "math is hard". Journalists shouldn't be
expected to investigate numbers beyond how well they sit with the text in
their screed.

------
tzs
Note for readers on mobile: if you see a dark overly and cannot find what to
click to make it go away, try rotating your device. That sometimes will reveal
the blocking ad that they are incompetently trying to display.

------
dmschulman
The article leads with Ana Redmond and Garann Means but the featured photo is
Tracy Chou? The author doesn't even mention Chou until the 19th paragraph!

~~~
toolz
Because Chou is younger and more attractive than the other women mentioned.
Ironic, huh?

------
polarix
Fascinating. Note to potential commenters: the same article just had a
discussion thread which was flagkilled. Don't invest any energy or thought in
your comment, as it's likely at risk of removal again.

~~~
jt2190
Flagkilled was here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9091810](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9091810)

------
DiversityWorks
Misogyny in tech, example #547,423,842,763. Yet on cue the hard done-by
privileged white males are coming out of the woodwork to whine.

~~~
toolz
I don't think anyone is arguing there isn't misogyny in tech. There is
misogyny almost everywhere. It's been a part of our culture for a very long
time and it will take time and continued efforts to solve the problem, but
trying to determine which problems are the most obvious is part of the
solution and does nothing to undermine the fact that there is a problem.

This doesn't appear to highlight the problem. I'm open to discussion, but this
article does nothing to provoke discussion it only highlights its conclusion
and does little to support the conclusion it came to.

~~~
threeseed
Did you read the article ? It clearly highlighted the problem. According to
the Harvard study, they include a "hostile" male culture, a sense of isolation
and lack of a clear career path.

Examples include: Redmond, now 40, didn't want to leave her tech career. But
she felt stuck, with no way to advance ; Chou, "The continuous pattern of all
these people treating me like I didn't know what was going on, or excluding me
from conversations and not trusting my assertions, all these things added up
and it felt like there was an undercurrent of sexism"

Frankly this dismissive "misogyny is everywhere" attitude is pretty unhelpful.
It isn't everywhere and even if it were it implies that it is somehow endemic
to our culture which it isn't. Many industries actively support and encourage
women especially in senior management positions.

~~~
reitanqild
> "The continuous pattern of all these people treating me like I didn't know
> what was going on, or excluding me from conversations and not trusting my
> assertions, all these things added up and it felt like there was an
> undercurrent of sexism"

Well, this happens to men as well. I'm a male engineer and not being asked,
not being trusted is just how it works at my current job. YMMV

The reason why we are seeing negative reactions here might be that some people
are seriously tired of everything being sexism.[1]

[1]: e.g. "Donglegate" Adria Richards, who cost two people their jobs because
she 1.) most likely misunderstood a joke that was not meant for her 2.)
misused female privilege (yes, they exist as well)

