
A systematic study of microdosing psychedelics - bookofjoe
https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0211023
======
toomanybeersies
I know a guy who was "microdosing" acid. He started small, but in the end was
taking a couple of tabs a day, I guess trying to chase the enhancements. He
was also smoking a bunch of weed at the same time.

It cooked his brain and he's lucky he didn't end up in a psych ward. He's
stopped now (not by choice) and he's slowly coming back to normal.

I'm not writing this to dissuade people from microdosing, or from drugs in
general (I'd be a massive hypocrite if I did). But to note that when left up
to their own devices with drugs, some otherwise incredibly intelligent people
will fall victim to the drugs. I've seen people (a lot who should've known
better) get wiped out by basically every different type of drug. Weed,
alcohol, Xanax, MDMA, amphetamines, LSD, ketamine, etc.

HN likes to talk about the positive effects of drugs, which there are when
used responsibly, but for a certain percentage of the population, they'll fall
victim to their impulses. It's easy to say that if you make rules and stick to
them you'll be fine, but when you start to form a habit, you start bending and
breaking those rules.

~~~
mettamage
Microdosing implies being consistent. Most people have trouble with doing
anything consistently because they consciously choose to do so.

For me drugs have been quite helpful. They have taught me about:

1) Some extreme emotional states.

2) Some extreme cognitive states.

3) They serve as a benchmark in emotional intensity when I encounter extreme
experiences that are not facilitated by drugs (e.g. falling in love,
exercising a lot or meditating very deeply).

4) They teach me a thing or two about my YouTube/gaming addiction or any
addiction really.

5) If you're not careful they do mess up your mind, but our alcoholic culture
is contributing to that for at least 50% in my experience. In all fairness,
alcohol is drugs, anyone who disagrees is playing a dangerous game of
definitions and of health.

6) The effect that believe and interpretation has on our actions. Sometimes
one can think extreme things, and if you follow through on those thoughts,
then your actions become extreme as well. This is why one needs a tripsitter.

But I didn't learn these things through microdosing. I learned them by doing
it occassionally, once per half a year would be a lot. I do have the fortune
of being in one of the best places in the world for it (The Netherlands) and
having the ability to get things tested beforehand (this is something our
government is doing right).

My point with this story is: while a part of my family has been going to total
shit because of drugs (I am surprised they are alive, though friends of my
family aren't -- alcohol poisoning), for me, they have been a very useful
tool. Starting experimentation 15 years later than your average family member
definitely helps.

I feel that drug experimentation done well is like bouldering. Yes, you fall,
but it's on a soft cushion. Drug experimentation not done well is like, real
life rock climbing without a carabiner. It's like bouldering, but a lot higher
and no safety cushion.

~~~
speedplane
> In all fairness, alcohol is drugs, anyone who disagrees is playing a
> dangerous game of definitions and of health.

No, alcohol is arguably much worse. Lets put aside health effects, and even
related issues like deaths from drunk driving. The more insidious issue, is
that in many parts of society, alcohol is a required component of social
interaction. Many standard human activities, including dating, networking,
enjoying art, even religious gatherings, all include some aspect of alcohol.
None of these activities strictly requires alcohol, it's just that we've been
conditioned over tens, hundreds, or thousands of years to accept it.

In contrast, illegal drugs have the benefit of being anti-social. Almost by
definition, illegal drugs are substances that are not tolerated in society.
Accordingly, doing illegal drugs provides a level of agency, it's a behavior
you decided to do rather than one that has been forced upon you. It's an
assertion of your free will.

Alcohol and drugs are entirely different. One is a choice and one is a law.

~~~
soulofmischief
You were correct up until you said that illegal drugs are anti-social. They
are certainly not. Many individuals, for better or worse, bond over drugs. On
the extreme side, you have opium and crack dens, and on the other side you
have cannabis-- probably the most social drug there is.

~~~
mettamage
I think it depends on the perspective you take. From the perspective of "I
decide to do a drug, because I want to experiment with it" is an assertion of
free will. However, if you have a friend being a bit pushy with weed, then it
isn't. Or if you somehow stumble upon a community that you click with and they
invite you to do it, then it also isn't full assertion of free will, IMO. In
order for it to be an assertion of free will, you need to take the decision
when no one else is around and then just look for an opportunity to experiment
later on in life.

That's what I did with psilocybin. And I have experienced the amazing effects
of it, but man the dark side can be damn dark. I get why enough people are
extremely against drugs. It's because things can become very dark and one
should not forget that this is the case for a great enough group of people.

------
tasty_freeze
The study shows what the participants were microdosing with. A subset of the
people were shown microdosing psilocybin, with an average of 0.3g per person.

[https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=...](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=large&id=10.1371/journal.pone.0211023.t002)

That can't be the case, as 300mg of psilocybin would be a devastating dose.
Even 30mg is a sturdy dose. Obviously, they must mean 300mg of mushroom
matter, but it doesn't say if it is dry weight or wet weight.

Anyway, it will be nice when someone can do a double blind study of
microdosing and get some real data to work with.

~~~
tuxxy
After you start microdosing, you'll get a tolerance to the psilocin and that
.3g becomes pretty negligible.

~~~
code_duck
Partially agreed - tolerance is strong but 300mg of psilocybin is a huge
amount. Mushrooms tend to be 1% or so psilocybin by weight, so that’s like an
ounce. People don’t typically eat an ounce of mushrooms. Upper dose tends to
be 1/4 of that.

~~~
bonesss
Specifically: if you're eating an ounce of mushrooms on the regular, then you
are no longer 'micro' dosing, and there's a non-zero possibility that you are
working on an article for Rolling Stone and just forgot.

------
alexandercrohde
I think the weakness of this study is that it's still all self-reported. I
know a lot of people who would label themselves "productive" who I might not
consider productive in an objective sense.

~~~
zarmin
The plural of anecdote is data ;)

~~~
fallous
The plural of anecdote is "anecdotes." The singular of data is "datum."

~~~
andreareina
It's a somewhat well-known quote that gets interpreted all sorts of ways.

[https://blog.revolutionanalytics.com/2011/04/the-plural-
of-a...](https://blog.revolutionanalytics.com/2011/04/the-plural-of-anecdote-
is-data-after-all.html)

~~~
fallous
Indeed it is well-known (albeit apocryphally for most), mostly as the source
of the rejoinder "the plural of anecdote is not data" which is rather more
well-known among those who do analytics and is more correct at least in
regards to the common definitions of "anecdote."

~~~
doovd
Woooosh...

------
01100011
FWIW, I tried microdosing LSD for a while(I'm a programmer and was working
from home). I found it to be negative to neutral. I'm probably suffering from
ADHD and was looking for increased focus. I didn't find it. I was also a heavy
pot user at the time though.

I found it was way too easy to take too much, or to start to feel the effects
enough and then want to take more. Even when I kept the dose low, I don't
think it led to any increase in productivity. I felt better, sure, but I was
looking to get a more permanent sense of accomplishment rather than a short
term mood boost.

~~~
mmiliauskas
Same here. Microdosing seems like a waste of LSD. On a full hit you at least
get some strange ideas and it is a fun trip overall. That being said, for me
personally as far as productivity goes, 2-3 days after the trip are the best.

Modafinil is much better suited for productivity. But it fucks up my routine
and temper.

~~~
01100011
Yeah, I tried modafinil(well, armodafinil) when I was waiting to get my sleep
apnea treated. I've used it a few times since. It's sometimes helped with
getting things done, but I have enough anger and irritability issues normally
which I don't want to exacerbate.

------
hkai
For me personally, the fun effect of psychedelics in any dose is a total
repulsion of alcohol and junk food for perhaps a day or two after dosing. Only
want to eat salads, fruit, veggies. I wonder if anyone else also noticed that.

~~~
01100011
In my experience, it's fairly common with LSD. I went vegetarian for about 6
months after a good trip once.

I don't know if mescaline is different, if it was my experience level, or set
& setting, but I had no problem eating a pepperoni pizza while experiencing
some really nice visuals.

------
Sir_Cmpwn
Without a double blind study it's not possible to filter out the placebo
effect here.

------
fourstar
Can someone tell me about the heart risks involved? I eat a lot of mushrooms
and would love to continue doing so, but have been worried a bit about the
5-HT2b talk I’ve heard around.

~~~
hkai
This is still an open question. There are a couple of studies that small
regular doses of psilocin in rats and regular huge doses of MDMA in humans may
or may not cause heart issues.

Decent summary:

[https://thethirdwave.co/psychedelics-heart-
risk/](https://thethirdwave.co/psychedelics-heart-risk/)

[https://thethirdwave.co/microdosing-heart-
risk/](https://thethirdwave.co/microdosing-heart-risk/)

------
chrisweekly
Tim Ferriss posted yesterday about the

>"Milken Institute 2019 Global Conference, where I moderated a panel in front
of a standing-room-only crowd: Psychedelics: Mind-Enhancing Methods to Well-
Being.

The entire video can be found here[1]. If interested in my personal goals and
thinking about the space, check out the first two minutes. The panelists then
provide a great overview of the science, investing opportunities, anecdotal
personal benefits, legal challenges, and much more. I think it’s one of the
more comprehensive panels ever done on the subject."

1)
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8RIVQDZH4Q4&feature=youtu.be](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8RIVQDZH4Q4&feature=youtu.be)

------
newnewpdro
The effect of microdosing shrooms is kind of incredible in my limited
experience (just a few consecutive days).

It definitely stimulated my creative side and caused me to spontaneously work
on tasks I'd been putting off and some I'd forgotten completely long ago.

I didn't even realize those effects until after the fact, when reflecting on
the past few days and realizing I'd done all sorts of unlikely tasks, and it
was all desirable stuff I'd intended to get done at _eventually_.

It also makes me far more extroverted, which is a mixed bag. I'll casually and
confidently strike up conversations with total strangers in public as if we're
long-time friends, something I don't typically do at all.

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easymodex
I am in a slump, can't get much work done and I lack focus. I can't stop
wasting time and browsing and reading useless stuff I forget in the next 10
minutes. For the sake of science I will try microdosing lsd today (I have 1
tab handy from a rave a few months ago). I have never tried it, though I have
tried shrooms several times. I'll report back my observations in a few days.

~~~
mettamage
I fix this type of stuff with mild moderate exercise (walking for an hour with
my grandpa, for example) or breathing meditation (Anapana), not mindfulness
meditation though (Vipassana).

------
throwaway111abe
I have never taken any drugs besides alcohol and tobacco but I keep getting
more interested in psychedelics. Not sure if that will be a mistake
(especially since they are illegal here) but I'm considering that. It seems
way more interesting than the other drugs in general.

~~~
gehwartzen
I’m not sure where where you are but there are a whole host of “Research
Chemicals” or RCs that are functional analogues to the more common
psychedelics and are in a legal grey area (ex: 4-HO-MET) Also mushroom spors
are perfectly legal to buy/posses (in the US) for research purposes.

------
bookofjoe
Ayelet Waldman's 2017 book "A Really Good Day" is an excellent first-person
account of LSD microdosing. Review:
[https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/11/books/review-a-really-
goo...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/11/books/review-a-really-good-day-
ayelet-waldmans-better-living-through-lsd.html). She's a fine writer.

------
hi5eyes
microdosing for mood enchancement/nootropic effects is a little dicey for
dosing

psilocybin/shroomtek tea is socially passable

tabs or anything else you have issues with consistency

~~~
Fnoord
What matters is, is it standardized? Self medication often lacks this...

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hirundo
> There have been no published empirical studies of microdosing and the
> current legal and bureaucratic climate makes direct empirical investigation
> of the effects of psychedelics difficult.

Dear people who believe that it should be your choice what you do with your
own womb: please apply the same ethics to your synapses, and exercise them
accordingly in the voting booth.

~~~
looeee
This is quite the straw man argument. Most of those people either support this
already or just have no opinion on it

~~~
chipperyman573
I doubt most people support legalizing LSD. "Most middle-class college-
educated young adults, especially those in tech fields, support it" might be
more accurate. For example, a recent bill to legalize marijuana in NJ failed
earlier this month, and I would be very surprised if more people supported
acid than weed.

Source: [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/25/nyregion/new-jersey-
marij...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/25/nyregion/new-jersey-
marijuana.html)

~~~
in3d
If you read the article, you’ll see that it was all about politics, not the
public support.

~~~
acct1771
Corrupt politics in New Jersey?!

