
Ask HN: Do you make your own PCBs? If so, how? - mrburton
Curious to see if anyone has a good CNC milling machine that&#x27;s &quot;cheap&quot; and works very well with PCB boards.<p>Do you have another method that is fast, easy, and clean?
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ChrisGammell
This is a much discussed subject in the electronics community. I just love
soldermask too much. Not only is there potential for colors and art and a
bunch of other aesthetic reasons, but the improvement of my soldering makes it
all worth it. Cheap PCB fabs from China do default 24 hour turns + 3 days of
delivery from DHL...so yeah, I just do that.

If you're set on doing them in house and aren't budget constrained, I usually
recommend an Othermill (Bantam) or a Nomad 883 or a Roland (all of which will
easily get you above $2K). If you're cost constrained, I'd stick to etching
boards using the toner transfer method.

But fast, easy, clean (and cheap)? Order them from a PCB house. If that's not
of interest, I suggest you get very specific with your budget.

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jdc
Any recommendations on PCB fabs?

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ChrisGammell
Usually I am loathe to mention them by name because it brings the spammers in
like crazy but I use and have liked AllPCB. I found them on PCBshopper.com,
which is a good way to comparison shop for the type and size of boards you'll
need: [https://pcbshopper.com/](https://pcbshopper.com/)

I don't know who owns that site, but I think they have found a great little
niche for advertising.

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trelliscoded
I normally outsource my PCBs to a board shop, but every once in a while I have
to make a one-off. I'm not sure where I read about it originally, but I use a
process that doesn't require any special, well anything:

* Print copper mask onto transparency film using a laser printer

* Very carefully iron the transparency film, print side down, on a standard copper FR4 board

* Even more carefully, peel the transparency film back, and the mask should stick to the copper board (you might have to try a few different brands of transparency film for this to work)

* Mix 50/50 hydrogen peroxide and vinegar in a tub, put the PCB in but elevate it off the bottom of the tub

* Add salt until the copper starts coming off the unmasked parts of the PCB, and agitate the entire thing somehow (I use a busted cell phone with an app that makes the vibrator run continuously)

After a while, maybe an hour, you'll be left with an etched board, then rinse
and scrub the mask off.

It takes some practice to get the quality level to the point where you can
reliably make thinner traces on the board, but it's entirely doable for small
quantities. I recommend doing 2x2 or 3x3 boards at a time so a few rejects are
ok.

It's not the fastest or easiest method, but if you're really screwed and you
need a board right away, it's possible to do this process with nothing but a
Walmart.

In case I need to do SMT parts, I don't bother trying to make SMT traces using
this method; I keep some SMT to DIP adapter boards around so I can just solder
the DIP through holes onto one of these ghetto PCBs.

Although H2O2 and vinegar are both common household chemicals, the resulting
bath is mildly corrosive to metals and apparently dental enamel, so treat it
with some respect and neutralize it with baking soda before putting it down
the drain. Don't throw it in your yard, it seems to sterilize any soil it
comes into contact with.

I'm not entirely clear on the chemistry of what's going on here, but I'm
pretty sure the oxidized copper residue left in the bath is low level toxic
waste, so filter that out before getting rid of the bath chemicals. I let it
dry out and I dispose of it at the battery disposal center in my building.

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kasbah
Etching doesn't have to be super messy if you are experienced in it and have
all the equipment set up. I would also recommended using ammonium persulphate
over ferric chloride as it's a see-through and a bit less nasty.

I few months ago I would have dismissed DIY PCBs altogether in a heartbeat.
But I visited my friend who etches PCBs on the regular and as long as you are
OK with the limitations there is a lot to be said for holding your design in
your hand minutes after having layed it out. I wrote a bit about this
experience in my blog: [https://blog.monostable.co.uk/posts/etching-
oscillators-in-z...](https://blog.monostable.co.uk/posts/etching-oscillators-
in-zurich)

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conesus
I recently learned that on a single sided pcb you can use a zero ohm resistor
to effectively cross over a trace, netting you half the benefit of a 2nd layer
without having one.

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dublin
Unless you're building a stupid-simple board w/old-style through-hole
components, give up on milling and just use an internet board house. (FWIW,
Sunstone/PCBExpress has done great boards for me.) Why? 1) Layers & plated
vias: You want them, even if just for power and ground planes; 2) Solder Mask
(really makes manual soldering easier, esp for fine pitch chips), and opaque
solder mask can provide a _little_ early IP obfuscation; 3) Silkscreen
annotations, but most importantly, especially if doing Surface Mount
components, 4) Solder paste stencils - if you're doing fine pitch surface
mount you _do_ want this! (Make sure your solder mask prevents bridging
between adjacent pads!)

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dublin
And FWIW, I haven't used anything but Internet PCB shops for prototypes since
2001 - that's the point at which I needed surface mount, so I made the change,
and never looked back. If you're really in a hurry, you can pay a bit more to
expedite and get everything in a day or two (usually the stencil's the long
pole in the tent...) We did two board spins a week for rapid development
projects, without no problems - in 2002!

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robjampar
I always found the best combination was a photo resist method, with a small
CNC machine for drilling and routing the PCB.

precision and accuracy is all about alignment, so i built alignment guides
into all my printouts.

I uploaded some photos of a one + the alignment guides I used, i even did
nickel plating and a silkscreen on this one...

[https://imgur.com/a/GNZKaMK](https://imgur.com/a/GNZKaMK)

heres a short video of the CNC drilling machine too, it was homemade

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiIWB1PsAg8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiIWB1PsAg8)

used to take maybe 1-2 hours start to finish to manufacture a full PCB

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mrburton
That image is so nice! Do you have a video of you doing it from start to end?
I would love to see that.

Great job!

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jotux
If I want a quick-and-dirty prototype or breakout board and I don't mind
waiting 2-3 weeks, I use dirtypcbs.com. Always good quality and _crazy_ cheap.

If I want full-up assembled prototypes I use macrofab.com. I can usually get
fully assembled prototypes to my door in ~3 weeks for $30-$100/unit.
Manufacturing and assembly is so cheap now I don't even bother doing any of it
at home anymore and only keep a small stash of parts for troubleshooting/debug
in the home lab.

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modells
Embedded systems engineer of the sharpie resist era.

If you're in Shenzhen, don't bother making your own... you can even get
prototype flex PCBs in a couple of hours.

The chemicals, heater, tank, maintenance and disposal are a PITA.

It's fine once or twice, but generally it's not scalable.

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vinylkey
OSH Park ([https://oshpark.com/](https://oshpark.com/)) seems to be popular in
the guitar effect building community.

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mrburton
I'm open to all options - but it could be done using a nice milling machine
thats under $200 and comes recommended, please share the model?

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rasz
fast, easy, and clean? add cheap and you get JLCPCB

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leetbulb
I've heard good things. They even sponsor GreatScott! :D

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m1573rp34130dy
have you tried photographic methods... such as mask and photo +ive/-ive
etchant resist? you can mill the photomask for serial production...

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mrburton
I haven't yet - I read about it. It would be great to have a small milling
machine that sits on the desk and can do PCB for say $200. I would cry :)

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m1573rp34130dy
if you want to use SurfaceMountComponents you may have trouble with the
milling machine approach due to constrained spaces...if you only need discrete
analogue or large scale digital boards milling maching is not a problem, a
really sweet CNC setup will have a learning mode so you can mill a one off by
hand then let the machine copypasta the rest of the boards in large
number...look for stepper motor controll projects and raid some dead printers
and CDdrives for tasty parts and you are well on the way to a kewlissimo
homebrew...

