
Uber CEO Plays with Fire - bmahmood
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/23/technology/travis-kalanick-pushes-uber-and-himself-to-the-precipice.html
======
ErikAugust
Buried lede here:

"They spent much of their energy one-upping rivals like Lyft. Uber devoted
teams to so-called competitive intelligence, purchasing data from an analytics
service called Slice Intelligence. Using an email digest service it owns named
Unroll.me, Slice collected its customers’ emailed Lyft receipts from their
inboxes and sold the anonymized data to Uber. Uber used the data as a proxy
for the health of Lyft’s business. (Lyft, too, operates a competitive
intelligence team.)"

~~~
cocktailpeanuts
Wow I think this unroll.me thing is the real scandal here.

I am an unroll.me user, but had no idea they sell user data to companies this
way.

Their whole value proposition is to help people control their own privacy and
now I kind of feel betrayed..

~~~
karlkatzke
I worked for a company that nearly acquired unroll.me. At the time, which was
over three years ago, they had kept a copy of every single email of yours that
you sent or received while a part of their service. Those emails were kept in
a series of poorly secured S3 buckets. A large part of Slice buying unroll.me
was for access to those email archives. Specifically, they wanted to look for
keyword trends and for receipts from online purchases.

The founders of unroll.me were pretty dishonest, which is a large part of why
the company I worked for declined to purchase the company. As an example, one
of the problems was how the founders had valued and then diluted equity shares
that employees held. To make a long story short, there weren't any
circumstances in which employees who held options or an equity stake would see
any money.

I hope you weren't emailed any legal documents or passwords written in the
clear.

~~~
kkyryl
situations like this is what makes it really hard for others in this space to
survive. I run [https://clean.email](https://clean.email) (and we don't
store/retain/sell any data, just charge people to use it) and the biggest
issue we have is lack of trust because of news like this.

although every day someone would still email with a question "why you are not
free like unroll.me".. sigh.

~~~
kkyryl
it's kinda funny how ~50 people who came from this thread to our service
illustrated the point of the lack trust – not a single person registered :)

~~~
gogopuppygogo
I clicked, I read your value prop, I just can't see myself paying $95+ /year
for less obnoxious email in my inbox. It's really not that big of a problem to
me.

~~~
kkyryl
ugh. I have "Yearly pricing to the homepage" sitting in my to-do list for a
few weeks :) so – there's yearly pricing (and it starts with 14.99 / year (I
know, this looks really weird, but it took us some time to get to this
pricing).

now, whether it's valuable enough to justify the price – depends a lot on how
you use your email. we've got users managing 3-5 accounts with hundreds of
thousands of emails each and they use our labeling/organization more than
removal. think of it as of a way to act upon a group of emails no matter what
the size of the group is.

(and I kinda think our website is not really good at communicating this – our
traffic is mostly coming from android app right now and we've been putting
website work off. who knew!).

~~~
DrJaws
Then why you complain?

You offer plain and simply ask for 8€ per month per account.

That's simply a ridiculous amount of money for 99% of the people, what you
have but we can't see is part of the problem, not the trust, the price is just
not worth for what you offer, so, don't complain about "not a single new
customer from 50 clicks".

~~~
kkyryl
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14182152](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14182152)
;)

------
pdog
From the article, explained:

 _At the time, Uber was dealing with widespread account fraud in places like
China, where tricksters bought stolen iPhones that were erased of their memory
and resold. Some Uber drivers there would then create dozens of fake email
addresses to sign up for new Uber rider accounts attached to each phone, and
request rides from those phones, which they would then accept. Since Uber was
handing out incentives to drivers to take more rides, the drivers could earn
more money this way._

 _To halt the activity, Uber engineers assigned a persistent identity to
iPhones with a small piece of code, a practice called “fingerprinting.” Uber
could then identify an iPhone and prevent itself from being fooled even after
the device was erased of its contents._

~~~
hsod
This really doesn't match up with how the conversation/outrage is playing out
on Twitter right now. People seem to be interpreting this as "Uber continues
to track your location after you have deleted the app," when what really
happened seemed to be "If you delete Uber and then reinstall it on the same
phone, Uber knows that it's the same phone."

See for example this Tweet, with hundreds of retweets and lots of verified
replies:

[https://twitter.com/dnvolz/status/856166875511894016](https://twitter.com/dnvolz/status/856166875511894016)

"This is like a holy trinity of privacy disaster: 1) secret tracking that 2)
persists after users delete app 3) in knowing violation of rules"

~~~
tedivm
Uber _was_ tracking people after they left their rides, and it's unsure if
they ever stopped.

[http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/12/01/503...](http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/12/01/503985473/uber-
now-tracks-passengers-locations-even-after-theyre-dropped-off)

~~~
hsod
OK, but that's different from tracking people after they've _deleted the app_.

~~~
vlozko
I'm genuinely curious how that would even work on the technical level. As an
app developer, I'm not making the connection here as to how iOS would even
allow that.

Edit: Read up a bit more on it. Turns out it was the practice of
fingerprinting and tracking after re-installs, not after an uninstall.
TechCrunch provided a better technical description:
[https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/23/uber-responds-to-report-
th...](https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/23/uber-responds-to-report-that-it-
tracked-users-who-deleted-its-app/)

~~~
stingrae
To me it seems like this is mischaracterized to make it sound worse than it
is. Can someone explain why people are making a big deal about this practice?

~~~
pm90
Its because its fashionable to beat the horse that Uber is a terrible company
led by a terrible man. I personally am no fan of Uber or Travis, but I do get
disgusted sometimes when the media hypes certain perceptions to an
inappropriate degree.

So for all means continue to investigate the seemingly terrible and anti-women
culture and the fraudulent stealing of Technology from Google. But like you
said, don't mischaracterize other facts to make them sound more terrible than
what they really are.

------
taude
I really hope Lyft doesn't do anything to screw up, as I've uninstalled Uber
and will probably never use the service again. However, I don't see myself
going back to regular taxi system as that's even more corrupt and despicable.

I just hope Lyft plays the game with a social conscious and makes positive
decisions and continues to treat drivers well (most Lyft drivers I talk to say
they like driving for Lyft way better than Uber).

I'm not so sure that as a society we should be rewarding people with drive
like this "Mr. Kalanick, 40, is driven to the point that he must win at
whatever he puts his mind to and at whatever cost".

~~~
rhino369
>regular taxi system as that's even more corrupt and despicable.

The idea that the taxis are corrupt and despicable is 100% Uber/Lyft
propaganda.

The idea that a bunch of immigrants driving 12 hours a day to support a meager
income for their families are a cabal of special interests is ridiculous.

Uber and Lyft are better than taxis because of the on demand nature and they
are cheaper because of better utilization. But there is no need to make taxi
drivers out to be evil.

~~~
cmahler7
they're cheaper because they can subsidize their fares via VC money

~~~
ogezi
> they're cheaper because they can subsidize their fares via VC money

That's not the (only) reason why they're cheaper.

They're cheaper because they offer drivers less downtime, therefore the
drivers can end up earning more money since they're driving more of the time
and earning fares.

They're also cheaper because services like uber pool and lyft line allow
riders to spilt the fare among themselves.

I also think that Uber and Lyft will be cheaper than taxis for many more years
to come. They're just more efficient as business models than taxis'.

~~~
memmcgee
Except they're still losing billions of dollars every year.

------
ars
For all the criticism he is getting, this would never have happened without
him. Taxi companies are too strong, and the US needed someone like him to
break barriers.

Lyft would never have existed without Uber. Now that Uber broke through the
path (and is getting destroyed for it) the way is open for lots of other
companies.

It happens all the time that the company that invents or creates something
new, does not actually reap the rewards because the cost of creating it was so
high they die in the process - but leave the way open for other companies.

~~~
whyenot
> this would never have happened without him

How can you be so sure of this? The person who came up with the concept behind
Uber was not Kalanick, it was Garrett Camp.

[http://www.businessinsider.com/uber-travis-kalanick-
bio-2014...](http://www.businessinsider.com/uber-travis-kalanick-bio-2014-1)

~~~
atom-morgan
I don't think he means the idea wouldn't have happened without him. It's his
ability to disrupt an industry tightly coupled with government.

~~~
Fricken
Kalanick is a Napoleonesque figure, a great conqueror who doesn't know when to
pull back on the reigns, because he knows nothing else. Our memories are
short, we're skewering him for being exactly the kind of animal that not to
long ago most everyone was rooting for.

------
_jal
I've thought the guy is slimy scum for some time, but that article made
something click.

One consistent feature of Kalanick's tactics appears to be a proclivity for
gaslighting on an industrial scale - geofencing Apple, regulators, etc.

Among (many) other things, I would never trust any data sourced solely to
anything under his control.

~~~
geofft
In American culture, gaslighting is a valued leadership quality. You get
things done by making people think you're in control of the situation.

See, for instance, Mike Pence's behavior during the VP debate, saying with a
straight face that certain things never happened that did happen (it's a very
different experience watching it once you understand that gaslighting is a
thing that exists), or Hillary Clinton talking approvingly of Abe Lincoln
having a public and private position - duplicity _is good leadership_. If you
want to get something done, and you have two constituencies that disagree
about how to do it, go to each constituency and say that you agree with them.
Anyone who thinks of calling you out on it is going to doubt their own
recollection of events.

I think it's good for our culture that people are starting to question that,
but it will be a very long and difficult battle.

~~~
maxerickson
Is talking about an achievable political goal instead of whatever you think
would be ideal really the same sort of thing as gaslighting?

~~~
geofft
No. But Pence was definitely not talking about achievable political goals. He
was just flatly denying that certain things happened.

Clinton wasn't gaslighting; she was just espousing the (correct, as far as I
can tell) idea that in order to be a successful leader, you have to convince
different sides that you believe different things, even if those sides are
talking to each other to figure out what you believe. That seems at least a
little bit gaslighty if you never admit your duplicity. (In Clinton's favor,
the speech in question was effectively admitting the duplicity - and the
backlash made it clear how bad an idea that is if you want to remain in
positions of leadership.)

I think it's certainly possible to tell everyone you meet, "In an ideal world,
I'd support X, but for the following reasons I think only X' is achievable
right now; these are the ways in which I'd be convinced that X is in fact
achievable." And you could be effective doing that. But probably you'd not be
as effective in the American value system as someone who says "No, I genuinely
support X and will fight for X" to one person and "Of course I don't support
X, that's unrealistic" to another.

~~~
tim333
>Clinton wasn't gaslighting; she was just espousing the (correct, as far as I
can tell) idea that in order to be a successful leader, you have to convince
different sides that you believe different things

Not sure how well that worked for her. See "Poll: Just 12 percent of Dems see
Clinton as 'honest and trustworthy'" and similar headlines. Plus losing to a
pretty bad opponent.

~~~
geofft
Yeah, I agree. She doesn't quite have the temperament for what America wants
from a leader: duplicity is hard for her and straight-up gaslighting even
harder. She can't pull it off in a way that is convincing, and so people
perceive her as untrustworthy.

Meanwhile, her opponent is almost a parody of the stereotype of the politician
who lies about everything to get votes, and people just assume he's playing
11-dimensional poker and his actual goal is whatever they want to think his
actual goal is (and this includes both people who agree with him _and_ people
who disagree).

~~~
tim333
Personally I think being straightforward can work pretty well which I think
Obama mostly was for example.

------
celim307
Anyone uncomfortable with these kind of profiles? I'd rather judge his
business decisions in isolation rather than having this quasi psycho analysis
where it's implied we can get better insight of his business by knowing he was
bullied

~~~
rafe33
Yes. And why didn't he explain _how_ he turned the table on his high school
bullies. Odd to include that psycho analysis and then leave out any details
there.

------
maxerickson
It'd be nice if Apple had been less pragmatic and more principled and just
yanked any version of the Uber app that broke the rules.

~~~
harryh
Uber has millions of people who use and love the service. Yanking the app
without notice doesn't just punish the company it punishes those users.
Working with Uber to get the issue fixed without punishing innocent bystanders
is good policy.

~~~
maxerickson
Hence my description of the move as pragmatic.

The thing you leave out is that inflicting the inconvenience on the users
would have increased the chances of the users understanding what Uber had been
doing.

~~~
harryh
Why would most users care that Uber was slightly evading some privacy rules to
prevent drivers from executing fraudulent rides?

~~~
maxerickson
They probably don't.

Look at my first comment. I said "It'd be nice". It wasn't a comment about
what would be good for Apple or bad for Uber or anything like that, it was
just a remark about how I see it.

~~~
macspoofing
But it wouldn't be nice. It would be terrible for everyone involved, Apple,
Uber, Uber/Apple customers.

~~~
maxerickson
The immediate effect would be unpleasant for users.

Longer term I think it is harder to say.

~~~
macspoofing
I cannot think of a scenerio where adding a little flexibility would be
detrimental. Maybe in the cases of personal safety or food quality or
something to that effect. But giving a company a chance to fix their mistake
before yanking them is a good policy.

------
h1fra
No one seems to explain how Uber could track user when the have deleted the
app ?

It look more like an hack more than "a lack of boundaries" to me...

~~~
trendia
And what benefit would they receive from knowing the location of people who
don't even use the service?

~~~
rafe33
If you read the article, it helped ensure that no drivers were scamming them
by creating repeat fake customer accounts to increase the payout bonus.

------
plg
"Using an email digest service it owns named Unroll.me, Slice collected its
customers’ emailed Lyft receipts from their inboxes and sold the anonymized
data to Uber. "

Can someone explain to me the mechanics of how this happens? I use Lyft, which
emails me a receipt. How does Slice get a hold of this? Does Lyft sell it to
Slice?

~~~
tyingq
It's pretty sleazy.

See [https://unroll.me](https://unroll.me)

It purports to be a convenient tool for end users. But sells them out for
revenue.

Edit: I'm sure it's in the terms somewhere. But to me, something this
intrusive should be stated up front if it's not obvious.

~~~
plg
Pretty sleazy indeed.

Honest question (not trolling, I swear), is Gmail any different? I guess (I'm
guessing though?) google doesn't sell users' info to third parties? (But I
guess it does use the info within alphabet companies??) Does anyone know this
for sure?

~~~
tyingq
It's at least easy to find out what's Google's policies are, in layman's
terms: [https://privacy.google.com/how-ads-
work.html](https://privacy.google.com/how-ads-work.html) I don't know how well
they link to this sort of thing during sign up for services.

------
itsmemattchung
Since "unroll.me" was anonymizing data[1] and then sold that data to Uber, is
it safe to assume that Lyft used the subscription service to manage their
drivers/customers contact information? If not, it's not clear to me how
"unroll.me" provided that data to Uber.

[1] quote from article: Using an email digest service it owns named Unroll.me,
Slice collected its customers’ emailed Lyft receipts from their inboxes and
sold the anonymized data to Uber

~~~
geofft
[https://unroll.me/](https://unroll.me/) is a service that searches your inbox
to see what potentially-unwanted emails you're subscribed to, and automates
the process of unsubscribing from those emails.

So they had access to the inboxes of people who happened to be Lyft customers,
without any business relationship with Lyft.

From their privacy policy at
[https://unroll.me/legal/privacy/](https://unroll.me/legal/privacy/) :

 _We also collect non-personal information − data in a form that does not
permit direct association with any specific individual. We may collect, use,
transfer, sell, and disclose non-personal information for any purpose. For
example, when you use our services, we may collect data from and about the
“commercial electronic mail messages” and “transactional or relationship
messages” (as such terms are defined in the CAN-SPAM Act (15 U.S.C. 7702 et.
seq.) that are sent to your email accounts. We collect such commercial
transactional messages so that we can better understand the behavior of the
senders of such messages, and better understand our customer behavior and
improve our products, services, and advertising. We may disclose, distribute,
transfer, and sell such messages and the data that we collect from or in
connection with such messages; provided, however, if we do disclose such
messages or data, all personal information contained in such messages will be
removed prior to any such disclosure._

 _We may collect and use your commercial transactional messages and associated
data to build anonymous market research products and services with trusted
business partners. If we combine non-personal information with personal
information, the combined information will be treated as personal information
for as long as it remains combined._

 _Aggregated data is considered non-personal information for the purposes of
this Privacy Notice._

Apparently, if you're not paying for it, you're, yet again, the product.

------
zilchers
I'm off uber after a BS "5 minute" issue. I've been using it for years, they
literally had to burn so much goodwill to get me to stop using them, it's
almost impressive.

~~~
odonnellryan
You're talking about them tracking you for up to five minutes after they drop
you off, right?

I've also left Uber for Lyft.

~~~
neom
Ditto and I'd done a lot of rides;
[https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1804713823185446&set...](https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1804713823185446&set=a.1465101997146632.1073741829.100009405371318&type=3&theater)

------
cocktailpeanuts
Genuinely curious, can anyone tell me how this is different from Branch
metrics? [https://branch.io/](https://branch.io/)

Tons of apps use their platform to identify unique devices, and I'm curious
what makes it legal and what makes it not.

~~~
tedmiston
It looks like Branch uses an ensemble of techniques for matching, but one
(perhaps the main) is just a browser cookie, so it happens outside of a third
party native app. Based on the recent notes on that page, it sounds like Apple
isn't too fond of their approach.

[https://dev.branch.io/getting-started/matching-
accuracy/over...](https://dev.branch.io/getting-started/matching-
accuracy/overview/)

------
tedmiston
> That drew attention from regulators. In October 2010, the company shortened
> its name to Uber after receiving a cease-and-desist letter from San
> Francisco officials for marketing itself as a taxi company without the
> proper licenses and permits.

That's kind of surprising.

------
gourou
> Uber considered Lyft and McDonald’s its main competition for attracting new
> drivers.

can somebody explain this?

~~~
daxelrod
Uber is a low-wage job that is extremely easy to get (no interview required)
and has very few skills as a prerequisite.

McDonalds fits those criteria as well.

~~~
odonnellryan
Not incredibly easy to get, you do need a pretty-nice car. I make okay money
and my car would not suffice.

~~~
daxelrod
Uber now has rental and leasing partnerships to make it easier for their
drivers to get qualifying vehicles: [https://www.uber.com/drive/new-york/get-
started/car-rentals-...](https://www.uber.com/drive/new-york/get-started/car-
rentals-and-leases/)

------
poirier
Open source gmail script: [https://www.labnol.org/internet/gmail-
unsubscribe/28806/](https://www.labnol.org/internet/gmail-unsubscribe/28806/)

Not by me. No affiliation. Found it after this news.

[edit: typo]

------
mdorazio
Does anyone know if the animation of Travis at the beginning is actually hand-
drawn or uses some kind of After Effects/Photoshop plugin?

~~~
electic
It is a series of sketches looping together. Background movie, nothing
special.

~~~
chinathrow
I think the parent was asking whether the single sketches were hand drawn or
made with some filters within photoshop.

------
0xmohit
Uber responds to report that it tracked users who deleted its app [0]. It
seems to insist that tracking was done to _prevent fraud and account
compromise_.

    
    
      Uber is pushing back on the allegations, saying that the
      tracking is a common industry practice used to prevent fraud
      and account compromise.
    

[0] [https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/23/uber-responds-to-report-
th...](https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/23/uber-responds-to-report-that-it-
tracked-users-who-deleted-its-app/)

------
awqrre
I hope Uber burns to the ground, the sooner the better. So far they get away
with so much, I can't believe it... Maybe Uber's only problem is that its CEO
is not as good as others at avoiding the press.

------
pfortuny
As always with corporate "justice", if you are big enough and transgress, you
simply get a slap. If you are a tiny developer, your app is out of the store
and may be at some point you may get it back.

Truly blind justice.

~~~
macspoofing
I think a case should be made for pragmatism. Informing an app maker they are
breaking rules when their app is installed on hundreds of millions of devices
is the right move ... for your customers.

------
dbg31415
Random Question: Why doesn't Apple do clean uninstalls once you remove an app?
Every time I re-add Uber (I usually delete it since I live in Austin and it's
useless... but then when I travel I re-add it when I want a ride) it already
has my account and password saved. I'd be a lot happier if it did a clean
install.

Not just Uber, but every app... any idea how I can do a true clean uninstall
when I remove an app from my iPhone?

~~~
tim333
Try Settings > General > Profile > Delete Profile?

[https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT205347](https://support.apple.com/en-
gb/HT205347)

------
MilnerRoute
If you've already used your "10 free articles" for the month, the complete
text of the article is also available at CNBC.

[http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/23/new-york-times-digital-
uberas...](http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/23/new-york-times-digital-uberas-ceo-
plays-with-fire.html)

------
throwaway23693
Although the article says they stopped using fingerprinting after getting
caught by Apple, that's not actually the case. They're still doing it. I have
an iphone that no matter how many times you wipe it, or how many sim cards you
use, it will get instantly banned if you try and create an account on Uber.

------
cm2187
One annoying thing with the Uber app is that they disabled the option to give
access to location only when the app is running. The only option available in
the iOS privacy setting is always or never for access to location (unlike
other apps).

~~~
mikeash
I can't understand why Apple allows this.

~~~
zorbadgreek
Many apps request "always" level of location tracking. Apple allows you to
opt-out of location tracking for any app. Granted, this renders Uber a bit
harder to use as you have to enter a pickup address, but you can still use the
app.

~~~
mikeash
I'm not sure how this addresses my comment. Apple should always allow the user
to choose "only while using the app."

------
ijafri
I don't know but Uber has proven to be a shinny example of a ponzy scheme
within a larger ponzy scheme. They will never be profitable, Burning billions,
so is the case with Careem whom I met, and their staff was at loss to tell how
this is a viable business to run. They disrupted taxi drivers, making good
earnings. They benefited a lot to consumers eliminating overcharging by common
taxi drivers. But as an entrepreneur I am still failing to understand how far
they can go before they run out of fuel $ eventually.

~~~
valuearb
Hard to imagine how they won't be profitable. The cost of providing the
service is pennies and they get dollars per transaction.

~~~
AlexandrB
But then shouldn't they be profitable already? How are they losing multiple
billions per year if they're profitable per unit.

If the answer is they need to raise prices and/or reduce the drivers' cut, how
will they be better than the taxi services they're replacing? Many taxi
services up here in Canada already have apps that are close to on par with
what Uber offers.

------
nilkn
Slightly off topic, but does anyone know if the following image depicts
programmer working conditions at Uber?

[https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/04/22/business/24travis...](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/04/22/business/24travis-1/24travis-1-superJumbo.jpg)

If so, I don't see how anyone can get any serious work done there.

~~~
throwaway_uber
Yes and no. There are multiple offices in the Bay Area including three in
engineering offices in San Francisco. Most offices/floors have a lot more
space and good working conditions. However where that photo was taken,
conditions are probably the tightest of all because it's the headquarters
location on one of the two main floors. These two floors are where engineers
need the greatest contact with other non-technical teams. It goes through
periods of being cramped due to business growth and as the company acquires
more office space, conditions get better again. This is not uncommon at any
company in San Francisco when you've grown headcount and are waiting for more
office space to decompress. I've seen similar conditions when visiting friends
at other companies experiencing high growth.

I work on one of these two floors, and have worked at all three SF engineering
offices on three different teams since joining 3 years ago. I would say those
are not typical conditions for most engineering teams, but are more common if
you work on a team that needs to be close to the non-technical areas in the
company.

That all said, you can work wherever you want. Sometimes I work at my desk
with headphones and sometimes I find a quiet place on that floor or one of the
other floors. There are no lack of quiet spaces. It's also easy to work from
home one to two days a week if you want. My team has our own no meetings day
and some team members work from home that day (but typically do so to save
themselves the commute).

I won't go into any details on what I work to maintain my anonymity but I have
no problem getting serious work done and I work on one of the largest scale
and most critical pieces of infrastructure.

------
shawn-butler
Is there a good tool to create these line art "sketch" renditions like that of
Kalanick in this article?

[https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/04/19/technology/24trav...](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/04/19/technology/24travis/00travis-
superJumbo.gif)

------
akyu
_Mr. Kalanick, with salt-and-pepper hair, a fast-paced walk and an iPhone
practically embedded in his hand, is described by friends as more at ease with
data and numbers (some consider him a math savant) than with people._

I chuckled a little bit reading this.

------
EGreg
How did they track these iPhones after the app was uninstalled?

~~~
shawn-butler
Pure speculation, but I'm guessing they were using private methods to get the
IMEI.

~~~
valuearb
You used to be able to save a private key with the OS that would persist. It's
no longer working now.

------
bkohlmann
The embedded Lyft ads (knowing full well they are adaptive to a given reader)
throughout the article is a brilliant touch on the part of Uber's main
competitor.

------
dartwing
"some consider him a math savant"

"Savant" is very specific term. "Some" is very unusual reference to describe
sources for good journalism.

------
amingilani
Big story and all but they could have come up with a more descriptive title.

For a moment I wondered why Travis Kalanick playing with matches was on the
front page.

------
nomnombunty
Why are there so many Uber article on HN? The more I know the more upset I am
with them.

I also find the fact that their new logo looks like an asshole very fitting

~~~
qwert-e
It's gotten a lot of media attention and is an interesting (if not entirely
fair) barometer of unicorn startup culture and industry.

------
KKKKkkkk1
Had Travis Kalanick been driven to win at whatever cost, he would have made
sure there is no sexual harassment at his company.

~~~
valuearb
And he would have given everyone a unicorn.

------
ensiferum
What a shitty world it is that allows total sociopathic ass holes like
Mr.Kalanick to raise to the top and become successful.

~~~
AndrewKemendo
It's been this way literally forever.

------
blackmarker
"At a meeting at Mr. Kalanick’s house, and over cartons of Chinese food, he
and Mr. Michael hosted Lyft’s president, John Zimmer, who asked for 15 percent
of Uber in exchange for selling Lyft. Over the next hour, Mr. Kalanick and Mr.
Michael repeatedly laughed at Mr. Zimmer’s audacious request."

Did they laugh at him to his face, cause if it was just the two of them...

~~~
atonse
I hope the Lyft guys are laughing for hours at the self inflicted PR disaster
that Uber has earned now.

------
stevebmark
Is there a possibility of a class action lawsuit against Apple for this? They
knowingly let Uber track customers after the app was removed. Isn't any user
who deleted the app during that time allowed damages?

~~~
valuearb
First, when Apple found out they made Uber stop and they eliminated the API
hole that was used.

Maybe you meant they knowingly allowed Uber to do on iOS what any app can
commonly do on Android? Apple works very hard to protect users privacy, it
doesn't guarantee it. Android doesn't guarantee it either, and doesn't try
very hard to protect it.

------
late2part
Serious question. How can I short this $70B stock?

~~~
tim333
Sadly there doesn't seem any way to short it on an organised stock or spread
betting market. The best you could probably do would be a private bet or
forward contract if you can find someone who wants to be long.

------
shimon_e
After reading the entire article everyone but one person declined comment.
That person remained unnamed.

------
quantum_state
Uber's behavior is so against the time .. it will fall in ruin ..

------
quantum_state
Uber will fall in ruin .. people may already shorting it now ..

------
beedogs
Uber won't exist in five years. Thank God.

------
idlewords
The buried lede here is that Apple did nothing to protect users from a company
that openly and willfully strip-mined their privacy in violation of App Store
rules.

~~~
valuearb
I guess you didn't understand the buried lede then. Apple forced them to stop.
The offense was extremely minor and didn't hurt anyones privacy (unless you
view iPhones as persons).

~~~
idlewords
Apple caught them taking active countermeasures to hide their activity from
Apple engineers. They caught Uber doing one thing; the question they should
have asked is, what else is Uber doing that they still get away with?

------
breeze_em_out
Disgraceful hitpiece from a trash publication.

Keep truckin, Travis.

------
lutusp
Quote: "In a quest to build Uber into the world’s dominant ride-hailing
entity, Mr. Kalanick has openly disregarded many rules and norms, backing down
only when caught or cornered. He has flouted transportation and safety
regulations, bucked against entrenched competitors and capitalized on legal
loopholes and gray areas to gain a business advantage."

This is classic malignant narcissism[1]. The irony of the story is that it
describes a confrontation with Apple, which became successful through the
machinations of another malignant narcissist, Steve Jobs.

1\.
[https://arachnoid.com/ChildrenOfNarcissus](https://arachnoid.com/ChildrenOfNarcissus)

~~~
vitaminbandit
Did you just diagnose someone with a condition that isn't found in the DSM and
then cite your own website as a source of evidence?

~~~
the_duke
The linked page is indeed ridiculous. Don't bother.

But: Narcissistic Personality Disorder: DSM-5 301.81

Also mentioned but not properly defined in ICD (F60.8)

~~~
vitaminbandit
I'm referring to OP's diagnosis of "Malignant Narcissism", not NPD.

