

Achieving Goals Like a Mad Klingon - jirinovotny
http://www.dextronet.com/blog/2011/04/achieving-goals-like-a-mad-klingon/

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nicpottier
Maybe some good content here, but jesus, does it have to come off as an
infomercial?

Although I thought 40 hour work week had some neat ideas in it, my biggest
complaint is the army of Tim Ferris clones it has created. I am so tired of
the posturing, the "I will flaunt my (real?) success to create success" and
other random personality hacks.

I know nothing of the author of this post, but the tone and writing style just
makes him sound like he should be screaming the blog post to me, telling me
how it is a limited offer.

No offense to you Mr Successful author, this was just the straw that broke my
back.

Please.. stop.. the.. madness..

</rant>

~~~
scotch_drinker
My thoughts were similar, the content was interesting but the Jeff Atwood
writing style had claimed another victim. As a writer, I strive to have my
words and ideas express themselves without the constant use of italics, bold
and exclamation points. I understand it's a choice (and God knows, it's made
Jeff Atwood famous) but there's only so many important things to say in an
essay and chances are they don't need to be bolded as badly as one might
think.

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nlavezzo
I totally agree with what he's saying. At the beginning of this year, I
weighed 236 pounds (6'1") and felt terrible about how I'd let my body get so
out of shape. So, I made a commitment (mostly with myself, but let everyone
else know) that I wouldn't eat out at restaurants (one of my favorite things
to do - I'm a big foodie) until I got under 200 lbs. That was the only
commitment - all of the details, as in what to eat, how to work out, etc. I
figured I'd optimize as time went on because I wanted to go out to eat again.

It's been 4 months and I'm at 203 now - so I've lost about 2 pounds a week
(while gaining a bunch of muscle too), and am closing in on my (initial...)
goal of 200 lbs. Going to have a bit of a celebration, and then set another
one for 180 and some type of cardiovascular measurement / achievement. This
has been one of the best things I've done in my life so far.

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wayneyeager
I don't think the premise is bad, but we're pretty good about separating REAL
consequences from contrived ones.

Example:

Several years ago, I put a $100 bill in five different envelopes (w/ no return
address)... all addressed to a guy I really, really dislike. I gave the
envelopes to my housekeeper and told her that every week, we'd measure my
weight and compare it to the previous week. If I didn't lose weight during the
week, she was to mail one of those envelopes. It worked for 2 weeks, but then
I gained 1/2 lb during the 3rd week and I pleaded until she handed over my
envelopes.

I think there might be a workable hack here, but it takes courage to make the
consequences real and irrevocable.

~~~
pdx
You should have just given the money to the housekeeper. Than you would,
presumably, have been less likely to renege to her face.

Even more fun, make two sets of envelopes, one set of $10 bills and one set of
$100 bills. The house keeper always gets an envelope, but your weight
determines which one. That way, she's not too disappointed when you succeed,
and when you fail, you've at least helped out somebody you like.

~~~
wayneyeager
Although presumably the idea is not to fail.

------
Maro
This works for something like doing an Ironman, where it's up to you and only
you. That's how I did my Ironman.

But it doesn't work like that for things that don't just depend on you, like
doing a startup or closing a deal, even of you "Commit to it like a madman.
Plow through like a Klingon. No looking back. Celebrate." You have to be very
careful about this, because when the "Celebrate." part doesn't come, you'll
learn how low the lows really can get.

~~~
jirinovotny
Agreed, but the important thing to remember is that it's not about completing
the goal, but rather working towards it. That's a very important distinction.

For example, you can still work on your startup even when others are
sabotaging it, rejecting you, etc.

------
phrasemix
"Like a mad Klingon"

I was just thinking the other day about terms like "ninja", "pirate", and
"rockstar" that are so played out at this point they make me cringe whenever I
hear them. Isn't there something fresh to convey the concept of being a
badass? "Klingon" works pretty nicely. For now at least.

~~~
billswift
I actually studied ninjutsu (Togakure-ryu) for a several years in the late
eighties. The core of real ninjutsu is _adaptability_ , not the movie-ninjutsu
that apparently supported the "ninja coder" silliness.

"Like a mad Klingon" would be "Fire-style" in ninpo terms; direct, forward
focused; make yourself into an "irresistible force", or as close to it as you
can manage.

A real ninja coder would be someone with a wide repertoire of techniques and
tactics and a deep understanding of his craft, and who constantly adapts his
approach to the needs of the work.

~~~
Kor
Is there a pile of rotting forshak in here, or is it you? Compared to a
Klingon warrior, a ninja is but a bloodless p'tahk!

------
JoeAltmaier
Brilliant! Now, to find a sadistic, cold soulless partner...

Oh, rats! I've surrounded myself with helpful supportive friends and family.
I'm screwed.

~~~
jirinovotny
"Tough love". Ever heard about it? ;)

------
jirinovotny
Anyone remembers the post "Fooling myself to work"?
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2456222>

This is another life-hack that has helped me immensely when building my
startup.

------
jfeldstein2
There's a RadioLab episode where they explore this type of self-discipline
(among other things). When a woman wanted to finally quit smoking, she told
her friend that if she ever smoked again, the friend should take $5,000 out of
her bank account and give it to the KKK. She couldn't bear the thought of her
money supporting that group, and she never smoked again.

Edit: Here's the episode <http://www.radiolab.org/2011/mar/08/> It's really
quite good, like most RadioLabs.

------
Jach
The author says this is not very effective but not bad advice. I disagree,
this is perhaps the worst advice you could give someone:

# Publicly announce that you will work on your goal, and that you are going to
post regular daily or weekly updates regarding your goal. Announce it on
Facebook, Twitter, and tell this to everyone you see regularly, etc.

[http://www.psych.nyu.edu/gollwitzer/09_Gollwitzer_Sheeran_Se...](http://www.psych.nyu.edu/gollwitzer/09_Gollwitzer_Sheeran_Seifert_Michalski_When_Intentions_.pdf)

Anyway, I'm still skeptical of the madman hack since that seems like what most
students do and most students still have motivation problems.

~~~
jirinovotny
Don't forget that you are quoting the "What doesn't work" section. That being
said, it can still work for some people.

Regarding the madman hack: It is definitely _not_ something that most students
do. How did you come to that conclusion? I have never personally met anyone
who does it (beside myself), and I know a bunch of students. However, I've
heard about some successful people that use it.

~~~
Jach
Yes, my phrasing is kind of weird, it is definitely a "doesn't work" thing.
And as the study shows, it might work when the task isn't identity-related,
but considering it's an actively harmful strategy (rather than just "not
working") I wouldn't even recommend it in passing.

Perhaps not many students act like Klingons but the crucial part of this post
seems to be about making a credible commitment, with this as the example:

"I will work on my Android app at least 2 hours every single day for 6 months,
or until the app is released. Every day, I will send you an email report of
what I’ve learned or accomplished that day, and how many hours I’ve roughly
worked. If I skip a day, it’s OK, but if I ever skip two days in a row, I will
give you $2000, and do your laundry and clean your windows every week for the
next 12 months. You are to hold me accountable, and demand that I hold my end
of the deal. If I ever forget to send you an email, you are to call me and ask
me about my progress."

While I suppose a lot of students aren't planning on day-to-day schedules for
their work (though some certainly do), there is nevertheless a cost that can
easily exceed $2k for failing in college.

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scotch_drinker
That post could be boiled down to a single concept: commitment. If you're
committed to an idea, person, goal or objective, you won't have to trick
yourself into doing anything, it will just happen. That doesn't mean it will
be easy but the effort becomes the means to the end. Without the commitment,
the effort becomes the focus.

~~~
billswift
_Best statement in the book is in the section on decision blockages - "The Big
Fact is this: In very few instances is one decision actually better than
another." Many different decisions can be made successful, given the
investment in seeing it through._

From my review of _Overcoming Indecisiveness_ ; a very useful little book.

[http://www.amazon.com/Overcoming-Indecisiveness-Stages-
Effec...](http://www.amazon.com/Overcoming-Indecisiveness-Stages-Effective-
Descision-
Making/dp/038069977X/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1304097038&sr=8-3)

------
gilesc
Reads like a HOWTO for burnout.

------
Swizec
There's a fatal flaw in this technique ... one that usually gets me.

What happens when you fail the goal, then manage to re-negotiate the terms of
the agreement so the downside almost doesn't exist?

What happens when you know in advance you'll almost certainly be able to do
this?

~~~
jirinovotny
Klingons don't re-negotiate :) Ok, seriously now: If you fail, you do what
you've agreed to. And even if you cowardly re-negotiate, you will probably get
a hard time from your partner, which is nothing pleasant.

If you know that you will be able to do it, all the better. You will be able
to make a bigger commitment.

~~~
Swizec
I meant being able to re-negotiate :P

And yes, in principle, I'm all for doing what you've agreed to ... but in
practice I'd really rather give the partner a different offer we can both be
happy with.

~~~
jirinovotny
Well, if you know you are like that, just initially settle with your partner
that no re-negotiation which would make it more pleasant for you is possible.

