

AskHN: Why hasn't open education worked yet? - wcarss

There's lots of neat stuff out there and we're all aware of effort's like the Khan Academy or MIT's OCW, and very few people at this point /haven't/ watched a lecture online -- so why hasn't open education taken disruptive hold yet?<p>I'm still in University. Kids are still planning to go to colleges next fall. Hell, I'm actually thinking of doing a second undergrad at the moment! There must be startups who are making open education platforms, there must even be people who are doing it for free, that have lots of resources.<p>Lots of us are regularly reading how ridiculously expensive school is; how low the benefits are. We all feel at one time or another how inefficient the existing system is. And it's obvious that online courses using existing technology /can/ be an effective teaching tool. So what's missing?
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cperciva
Education is only half the problem. We also need _certification_.

Hiring someone who is self-taught has a very high frictional cost -- you need
to evaluate what they've taught themselves. I took slightly over 100 hours of
final exams as an undergraduate student; what employer wants to spend 100
hours evaluating a potential employee?

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PakG1
Certification already exists for a lot of stuff, and it's proven that it's not
a sure shot. Whether it's sysadmins, project managers, scrum masters,
accountants, lawyers, or anything else, there will always be incompetent
people, more than you'd expect. University degrees are an even lower standard
these days with grade inflation.

Certification does well to help mitigate the problem, but it also has a
similar effect as standardized tests: students study to pass the exam, not to
learn and apply what they've learned. And this goes the same for
certifications that require experience and practicums. Bell curves for
performance will exist in anything and everything, and the spread is always a
lot wider than one would hope.

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dangrossman
Hiring hasn't changed. Without a degree, your resume doesn't get read, so it
doesn't matter what knowledge or experience you have. The unemployment rate
for those without a college degree is more than 5% higher than the
unemployment rate for those with one.

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tapiwa
I think it is a combination of many things.

a. The curious will always learn. Books have been around for a long time. In
the west, the books are cheap/affordable. Still you find many people that
cannot be bothered to pick one up and read. Online education material is the
same.

b. Most people need structure in their lives. It is very easy to procrastinate
with online learning. Very easy. Without a set syllabus, and deadlines, it is
far too easy to park the lessons.

That said, I still think online education efforts are if not disruptive,
democratising. Individuals who were previously interested in a topic, but
could not afford to go to college/private lessons, can now do so.

You still need to get individuals fired up about learning, and learning on
their own steam, with no deadlines, and possibly no expectations of
certification at the end.

As the old addage says, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him
drink.

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signal
Ignoring all the social benefits of institutionalized learning, the structure
really hasn't been challenged by any other offering. I think to make
individual or even group learning explode online you need a new structure that
doesn't exist yet. You need to be motivated to explore an avenue by being
presented with goals, milestones, structure and community, mentorship, and
rewards as well as compelling course material.

Online learning for the most part is akin to being left in a massive library,
where formal education is largely supportive.

The software required to disrupt education needs to be more supportive than a
campus full of staff, handing out scholarships and creating lifelong
relationships. That's not simple by any means. It has to take you by the hand,
ask you all those questions you have horrible, inconclusive or delusion-
riddled answers to and then give you a package and point you towards a goal
while lumping you in a group with others and placing frightening consequences
on failing to complete the job.

This would have to be done by creating the system to automate the process and
bring the people together, sprinkling mentors into the mix with rewards for
their performance, having 'tuition' in the form of reasonable payment plus a
premium that gets donated to charity if the student drops out, and excellent
rewards for success, such as company placements at the best employers. It
could work as a pilot project with a single class and expand from there.

I think the real problem is, helping people find and commit to their passions.
Education is an easy step once that's accomplished. If students don't make the
effort to really analyze their goals and passions they will be failed by their
education regardless how cheap or accessible it is.

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mattgratt
I found the main benefit of attending a strong undergrad school (Berkeley) was
the network you built and the exposure to other quality students. In many
ways, more meaningful learning and skill-building occurs outside the lecture
hall than within it.

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miraj
i think we will see more experimentation before a few successful models
emerge. one of the promising recent initiatives i found is: Peer 2 Peer
University <http://www.p2pu.org/>

some of their courses are being offered in conjunction with established
academic institutions. for example: <http://www.p2pu.org/general/open-
journalism-open-web> . even a for-credit course: <http://p2pu.org/journalism>

i've also posted a separate thread re: P2PU:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2021565>

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lcargill
Robin Hanson has about worn this subject out. Education is about social
signaling. It became institutionalized when labor began to have surpluses.

For social signaling goods, the cost is the point.

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Mz
IIRC, Andrew Carnegie was largely self-taught at a time when free libraries
were basically unheard of. He donated a lot of his wealth to make sure there
were free libraries available so that other people (like him) starting from a
lower socio-economic class who wanted to get ahead would have the opportunity
to be self-taught as well. So perhaps one issue is that "open education"
already exists to some degree and is not actually a new thing.

As others here have said, colleges also serve the purpose of certification or
accreditation, not just education. If you want a job, a degree is still useful
and can be essential for climbing the corporate ladder. There are
circumstances under which knowing how to do something has inherent value and
where convincing others of your ability is largely irrelevant. Getting a job
is not one of those circumstances. Getting a job is all about convincing
others you have the know-how and skills, at which point a degree is a short-
hand proof of some qualification. That isn't likely to change much.

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rick_2047
In Asian countries (at least) a degree is also a matter of prestige (I also
suspect it happens in European countries with their strong culture). When a
person has a degree in something useful like engineering, medicine or
accounting, they automatically start commanding respect (even if it is not
from a good college). While on the other hand, there are a lot of ways to
command respect in open and free countries like America. The difference lies
in the culture.

Also if you are measuring the success of OCW just by the admissions in
colleges then it would be a wrong metric. College is much more than just your
studies. Things like networking, employability, easy structure have already
been mentioned. One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is Labs. You can
easily set up a programming environment, but what about civil engineering,
mechanical engineering, bio sciences, economic surveys, medicine, pharmacy?
These things require large amounts of money to setup, and cannot be provided
in any open way. Furthermore, where will you get willing guides for your
research work and such? Refer to my previous comment here,
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1648554>

