
Pop-Up House: The affordable passive house - torvald
http://www.popup-house.com/
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codezero
I've said this on previous threads, the problem isn't the availability of
cheap building material or designs, it's the availability of cheap land.
There's no pop-up property unfortunately.

~~~
throwaway344
Could you expand on what you mean by availability of cheap land? It seems to
me that despite the problems with suburban sprawl, it did exploit cheap
availability of land that is generally available at the edges of cities.
Especillay consiering the vast quanties of land that is rural in the US. More
stats about land usage can be found at [http://www.ers.usda.gov/data-
products/major-land-uses.aspx#....](http://www.ers.usda.gov/data-
products/major-land-uses.aspx#.UyUI8fldWSo)

~~~
pfitzsimmons
Two of the biggest factors in our happiness are a) the quality of your job b)
the duration/stress of your commute. America faces a shortage of plots of
residential real estate that are within a reasonable commute of quality of
jobs. And you need to be in commuting distance of an abundance of good jobs,
because job conditions at any one company can change fast, leaving you stuck.
Suburban sprawl worked for a while, but in many metros the cheap land is so
far out that the commuting times are horrendous.

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contingencies
As a remote worker, I don't commute. Therefore, I'm presently negotiating the
purchase of hundreds of hectares of 50-year regenerated native forest in
northern New Zealand. Price is <$1000/hectare, which is not expensive in
western terms. However, my wife refuses to live there for the moment on
account of the relative isolation - it's about 3.5 hours to Auckland. Because
it needs a dwelling, I've been researching building over the last few years
and have come to the conclusion that I'd like to try straw bale. As long as
you keep it dry, you get all the high _r_ -value (insulation) benefits of a
passivhaus without being limited to modernist finishings, mass-produced truck-
hauled materials and straight lines. Plus, it's surprisingly more fire and
earthquake proof than pretty much anything else.

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ars
Did they leave the foam exposed when they were done? That's not really a good
plan.

They don't prepare the ground first? Isn't the house going to sink during the
first heavy rain?

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bdirgo
and what about poop?

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bananas
Having done a lot of camping in my time, this was the first thing I thought as
well. If you haven't got somewhere to poop and somewhere to get rid of it,
life is miserable. Believe me, burying it isn't fun.

Seems like one of those idealistic almost art project houses rather than
something you could actually live in.

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DennisP
They say in the FAQ you'd have to add plumbing etc. to the cost. This was just
a test build.

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bananas
So its an art installation..

Unless someone has lived in one for months, it's purely magic unicorn poop.

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tofof
Suspiciously absent from photos: plumbing and electrical.

What good is 'outstanding insulation' with no heating/cooling?

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jonsen
No heating? There are human bodies in there.

 _A passive house is a building whose energy consumption per square meter is
very low. Heating requirements of < 15 kWh/m²/year._

That's about two human bodies.

    
    
      15 kWh/m²/year * 150 m^2 / ~10,000 h/year ~= 200W

~~~
aarkling
you'll still need electricity for your laptop, microwave, fridge etc.

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scjody
LVL on grade? How is that not going to rot?

You could probably get around that by pouring a slab with small stem walls and
building inside that, but that's not what they're doing here...

~~~
bluthru
They're resting on posts. It's quite close to the ground, but I'm sure that
the site grading allows for that.

It's interesting that when you're dealing with this high of insulation, the
earth would act as a thermal bridge instead of an insulator.

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ph0rque
This concept would be awesome as a tiny house.

My 7-year-old daughter just asked me the other day, "We can build a tiny house
when I'm 11, right?" So I have another four years before I need to do
something like this in tiny house form.

~~~
carlosrt
For those of you that didn't realize "Tiny House" was a thing, here's a fb
list I created of Tiny Houses:

[https://www.facebook.com/lists/4064803732495](https://www.facebook.com/lists/4064803732495)

ph0rque, your AutoMicroFarm side project looks interesting. It's a idea I
think about often. Instead of an upfront purchase of the hydroponic system, a
SaaS model might increase adoption. e.g. You charge $100 per month to manage
the customers vegetable garden. Basically, it's a hack. The farmer just hacked
a way to farm w/o having to own land, pay for water or utilities, and gets
paid regardless if the crop fails. Farmer earns ~$100 per hour per customer,
and can scale. Inspiration for idea: Our local non-tech gardeners.

~~~
ph0rque
Thanks for the idea, Carlos. We've already considered a variant of it, but not
a full AaaS (Aquaponics as a Service) idea. We'll give it some serious
thought.

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grannyg00se
" It must:

    
    
        – Have strong thermal insulation without thermal bridges,
        – Be perfectly airtight,
        – Capture maximum solar energy.

"

Perfectly airtight? With wood and insulation?

~~~
andrewliebchen
It's realtive for buildings. Air-tightness is measured in air changes/hour,
which measures how many time per hour the internal air of a structure is
completely replaced my external air. Normal construction has 3 ac/h, if it
recall. I bet they're aiming for anything lower than 1 ac/h.

~~~
grannyg00se
Oh. That's interesting. It would read much better if they specified the ac/h
rating they are referring to. It would also provide some actual information
rather than a statement that sounds insane.

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stefek99
> For the structure and insulation of a PopUp-House building (floor, walls and
> ceiling) it costs about 200 €/m² including labour. To this cost must be
> added all the finishes: waterproofing, exterior finishes, interior finishes,
> electricity, plumbing, heating, etc.

What would be the total total cost then?

~~~
adanto6840
According to Google...

200€ = 278.08 US Dollars

1 meter = 3.28084 feet

So.. 278.08 dollars gets you 3.28084 sq ft, or about $84.76 per single square
foot (278.08/3.28084)...

If I did my math right. ;-)

~~~
dstaley
200€/m² = $25.85/ft²
[http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=200+%E2%82%AC%2Fm%C2%B2...](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=200+%E2%82%AC%2Fm%C2%B2+in+USD%2Fft%C2%B2)

~~~
DennisP
Plus all the finishes. What do those cost in a standard house?

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georgeoliver
According to the NAHB [1], construction is about 60% of a house's cost (the
rest eaten by land, financing, etc.). Of construction cost about 20% is
foundation, framing + insulation (what we have in this design). For this
particular design it's not just all the finishes though, since you still need
plumbing, electrical, etc.

[1]
[http://www.nahb.org/assets/images/Table1_201035133529.jpg](http://www.nahb.org/assets/images/Table1_201035133529.jpg)

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darklajid
I like the design, and like the speed. I even like the music in the video.

But I cannot avoid thinking of the wolf, huffing and puffing and .. blowing
that thing away. How stable is that thing?

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bluthru
Look up "SIPS" for more info on this building technique. They're surprisingly
robust.

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jamiesonbecker
Unless that PSE allows water vapor, this house can't breathe. Even in a dry
climate, it will eventually get mold and mildew building up inside.

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dcc1
It absolutely amazes me how all houses in US seem to be build with 100% wood,
especially in areas with termites, dryness or possibilities of hurricanes!

It is not that much more expensive to build a solid concrete block home,
insulate and airtight it well

I realise wood is more plentiful in US than here in Europe, but imho i wouldnt
feel safe living in a wooden home.

~~~
dm2
Traditionally concrete really wasn't that much stronger without rebar and is
much more dangerous if something does collapse.

Wood use to be much cheaper because it requires special knowledge to create
strong concrete.

The wooden walls also allow for pipes and utilities to be easily ran. How do
you run utilities into concrete homes? The ones I've seen are either exposed
or behind a wooden wall.

The US has a large amount of brick homes, but it's usually wooden walls on the
insides so it ends up costing more.

It's also more difficult to make a concrete block home look good, and since
there aren't too many major storms in many parts of the US, cheap wooden homes
work fine.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire_of_London](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire_of_London)
might also be a reason why Europe prefers concrete to wood.

~~~
chiph
A building material that is in common use in Europe, but hasn't really caught
on here is foamed concrete (Autoclaved Aerated Concrete, technically). They're
large blocks that can be mortared together and can be worked with powered
woodworking tools (drills, circular saws, etc) to make cavities/channels for
utilities. They need some additional reinforced concrete to make them
hurricane proof, but they're very fire resistant, are quiet, and go up
relatively quickly. It's more expensive but lasts longer than wood framing.

The brick and stone homes here are actually masonry facade over wood frame.
You need to have an air gap and flashing between the brick/stone and the wood,
as water will seep through the mortar via capillary action fairly quickly, and
stay there to rot the wood.

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1m5VShzxYs](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1m5VShzxYs)

~~~
tesseractive
What does it mean to say that it lasts longer than wood framing? There are
wood framed houses that are well over a century old, right? So is this being
measured in centuries, or am I missing something important?

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tanzam75
> _There are wood framed houses that are well over a century old, right?_

Yes, but that doesn't mean a wood-framed house built today wild last 100
years.

First, there's a survivor effect. Only the best wood-framed houses from 100
years ago are still around today. The rest have been pulled down over the
course of that century.

The lumber used 100 years ago was true-sized -- a 2x4 was actually 2 inches by
4 inches. Today, the lumber is dimensional -- a 2x4 is actually 1.5 inches by
3.5 inches.

Houses were often overbuilt 100 years ago, because they weren't as confident
in the engineering. Today, we're becoming more comfortable going to the
engineering minimums. Thus, there's a lack of redundancy in the structure --
redundancy that may compensate for some construction shortfalls.

~~~
chiph
A condo under construction succumbed to high winds in Raleigh:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSjrOiGIxh4](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSjrOiGIxh4)

~~~
dm2
[http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/01/13/3530080/raleigh-
condo...](http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/01/13/3530080/raleigh-condo-
building-that-collapsed.html)

[http://www.wral.com/rebuilding-begins-at-brier-
creek/1331351...](http://www.wral.com/rebuilding-begins-at-brier-
creek/13313511/)

The building had not yet been properly attached to the foundation and the wind
was record breaking (80+ mph). The wind likely went up under the structure and
lifted it enough to push it off of it's foundation. NC is known to have
regular hurricanes and tornadoes.

Concrete buildings collapse too, often times with much more devastating
results:
[https://www.google.com/search?q=concrete+building+collapse&s...](https://www.google.com/search?q=concrete+building+collapse&source=lnms&tbm=isch)

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the_cat_kittles
For lots of stuff along these lines, Kirsten Dirksen has alot of interesting
videos on youtube where she explores cool houses:
[https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDsElQQt_gCZ9LgnW-7v-cQ](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDsElQQt_gCZ9LgnW-7v-cQ)

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tekknolagi
See also: [http://netzero.io](http://netzero.io)

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grannyg00se
These alternative house construction strategies always get my attention. But
the real tough part is finding affordable and desirable land upon which to
build one.

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cpeterso
Are there more environmentally-friendly alternatives than polyurethane foam
insulation? The insulation in my home include recycled jeans material.

~~~
bluthru
This looks pretty interesting:
[http://www.ecovativedesign.com](http://www.ecovativedesign.com)

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mattholtom
I have a suspicion that once they encounter and solve all of the challenges
associated with building houses (mold, cost, weather, a second floor) they
will end up approaching a pretty normal modern residential construction.

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brianbreslin
I wonder what the earthquake/hurricane/storm strength of this stuff is.

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ATLobotomy
All that styrofoam makes me wonder if it would float.

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jrjr
I thought boat as well, maybe it's a feature.

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bigd
removable house:

    
    
        come back from holidays
        someone has stolen your house

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adrianlmm
Where is the bathroom?

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copergi
No thermal mass makes for a horrible passive house.

~~~
georgeoliver
They're using the term passive house to mean the 'new wave' passive house,
which is more about super-insulating a nearly airtight envelope. Usually a
heat-recovery ventilator is added to recover interior heat when cycling in
outside air. While thermal mass can be an element in this design it's not a
major factor like in a 'passive solar' house.

~~~
copergi
>which is more about super-insulating a nearly airtight envelope

That last part is the problem. Insulation is a huge part in any passive home,
but heating the air means keeping things airtight. Which means terrible air
quality and living conditions.

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georgeoliver
You still exchange the air with the outside, you just do it through a heat
recovery ventilation system.

An introduction:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_house](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_house)

~~~
copergi
I am fully aware of what they are, we stopped building them for a reason. They
are hell to live in. You get the bare minimum air exchange as required by
code. Try being in such a building for a day. Properly constructed passive
buildings use thermal mass to maintain comfortable temperatures while allowing
proper ventilation.

