
Another replacement Samsung Galaxy Note 7 has caught fire - lnguyen
http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/9/13215728/samsung-galaxy-note-7-third-fire-smoke-inhalation
======
sschueller
I wonder if this is the reason:

"I inspected the kernel source code. Samsung charges the note 7 battery at
just over 4.35v

Older models have 4.35v batteries but only charge to 4.3v.

If you put a generic 4.2v lithium ion battery in, they survive 4.3v with a
reduction in charge cycles but anything above that causes formation of
metallic lithium dendrites, a non reversible process that eventually causes a
fire. This policy makes sense if you have removable batteries as there are
lots of fake genuine samsung batteries. But you want maximum battery life
using special 4.35v cells. Perhaps they thought with a sealed battery they
could hit 4.35v?

The chemistry is not hugely different, just uses more expensive elements. So a
factory trying to minimise cost could easily introduce a defect from changing
from one type to another etc.

So this tiny change could cause a defective battery to catch fire where it
normally would not.

Doesnt matter how you charge it, more how long it sits above 4.30v at ~60-100%
float charge.

So samsungs 60% charge resolves 2 issues, peak voltage above 4.3 and energy
release on failure.

Imho they need to go back to 4.3v policy rather than just replace and assume
its a once off.Lithium batteries used in phones dont catch fire without
physical damage like a knife or overvoltage. That's why this is so unusual.

Ps kernel source is available from samsungs website because android is based
on linux.

Tldr: policy change from 4.3v float charge to 4.35vwhich I have confirmed by
examining source code available on samsungs website would explain the fires"

[1]
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/560luq/slug/d8fhh2...](https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/560luq/slug/d8fhh2s)

~~~
laurentdc
That sound weird, a 0.05V fluctuation should be well within tolerance.
Otherwise there'd be plenty of phones blowing up out of nowhere due to
glitches or random overshoots from the charging circuitry.

~~~
petertodd
Charge circuitry can easily maintain a ±0.05V voltage tolerance if needed. For
example, googling for datasheets found this charge controller IC with 1%
tolerance:
[http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/datasheet/4050f.pdf](http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/datasheet/4050f.pdf)

I'm no expert on battery chargers, but I can certainly imagine a design using
that kind of tolerance if it made the batteries work better; holding that kind
of tolerance is fairly cheap these days. Re: glitches, I'd imagine that a
battery isn't going to care about extremely short duration events; preventing
longer-duration overshoots isn't all that hard.

------
f_allwein
Harsh but well said:

"At this point, it’s irresponsible for us to say anything else: If you own a
Samsung Galaxy Note 7 you should immediately stop using it and return it for a
refund (...) The Samsung Galaxy Note 7 is a fundamentally defective product
and it should be pulled from the market without delay."

Not sure what's going on, but it looks like Samsung is handling this extremely
poorly.

------
joonhocho
I am from South Korea. There were numerous reports from people on Facebook or
other social media that Note 7 replacements were also having battery problems,
but Samsung have been trying hard to control Korean newspapers to report them
as false reports from "black consumers". It's ridiculous to see how they can
manipulate media as they want. I'm glad that Samsung does not have such power
outside South Korea.

~~~
bad_alloc
What do you mean by "black consumers"? Are those supposed to be people who
want to discredit the company or actual black people?

~~~
DanBC
[http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2016/09/133_214567...](http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2016/09/133_214567.html)

> In Korea, black consumers refer to those who dishonestly seeking reparations
> for what they allege are faulty goods.

~~~
bad_alloc
Thanks for the clarification :)

------
Steko
> Just now got this. I can try and slow him down if we think it will matter,
> or we just let him do what he keeps threatening to do and see if he does it

That guy just made $10 million on that text.

/r/Android also shows another 3 more recent cases of Note 7's blowing up, 2
from Korea and one from Taiwan.

If it seems like Samsung's executive leadership is asleep at the wheel on this
one, it's because that's almost literally the case: Chairman Lee had a heart
attack in 2014 and hasn't been seen in public since. While he's apparently
alive he also hasn't handed over power despite being unable to communicate
vocally for several years.

------
kyriakos
This problem (+ the fact that it still hasn't been fixed) and the pricing of
recent big-brand models makes me consider buying from Chinese manufacturers
suchs a Xiaomi, OnePlus etc

~~~
hueving
Chinese manufacturers aren't exactly well known for good lithium battery
safety. IIRC the entire reason amazon banned hoverboards was because they
couldn't tell which Chinese manufacturers used safe batteries.

~~~
x0x0
There's a difference between whatever-random-flybynight-hoverboard company
and, say, Huawei or OnePlus.

...

I hope. Cause I just bought a OnePlus 3 after being really disappointed by the
Pixel phone. Like who made google think they could charge iphone money for a
nexus -- $750 plus tax so over $800 to get something with 64G of space?

The OnePlus has been out since June and while there are sporadic reports of
fires (just like there are sporadic reports of iphone fires), there's nothing
like the wave of reports of Samsung phones catching fire.

~~~
tluyben2
I have a Huawei p8 max and it is great. I have a cheap whitelabel Chinese
Android as well and that is nice too: never overheats and has good battery
life (and was $40). You need to reflash Android but other than that...

------
andromad
What are you expecting they say? Return the phone and we are doom?

------
abysmallyideal
Even with the coincidence of Pixel release and Samsung having problems with
their batteries which hints with high probability the occurrence of corporate
sabotage, the way Samsung has been trying to deal with this is appalling.

~~~
simonh
Tosh. Both Samsung and Google time their releases around the iPhone release
and Thanksgiving and Christmas so the timing is completely natural. The fact
is Samsung rushed the phone to production and pushed the engineering beyond
their capability in order to try and get ahead of the competition. They blew
it badly and are now bungling the aftermath. Or is their ridiculously crack-
handed and borderline criminal handling of the situation also somehow someone
else's fault?

~~~
abysmallyideal
Hahaha nope, the US is desperate to continue its dominance over the market to
sustain their surveillance apparatus and will deal with anyone, company and
org that attempts to prevent their surveillance capabilities in a highly
aggressive manner.

They just sabotaged the phone manufacturing process to create room for Googles
Pixel and Apple. Samsung is just incapable of handling the level of sabotage
that was dealt against them.

This is just part for the course for the US, and I'm a bit surprised Samsung
is this negligent in preparing for these types of actions that were highly
suspected for a while.

Edit: for background for those other than the fanboys and tech bros, corporate
sabotage is such a norm in American business the FBI has an entire division
dedicated to investigating it, as do military intelligence for companies
involved in military contracts. SpaceX and ULA is one such example where
military intelligence is involved in investigating corporate sabotage.

Many major companies have teams and processes for this purpose.

As for Samsung, they seem to have picked up extremely bad business habits, and
themselves are also known to participate in sabotaging their competitors as
stated by other Koreans unfortunate enough to challenge them.

------
dingo_bat
I think there is a small chance of any modern phone catching fire. I saw a
news article about the same thing happening to a new iPhone 7. The first
batches of note 7 were defective so they had a higher chance of combustion.
I'm pretty sure that's not the case with replacement phones. This is just some
sensationalist "journalism".

~~~
pedalpete
A small chance does not show up with 3 phones catching fire within a week. How
many of these phones would have even made it into customer's hands during that
time.

I doubt it is eve fair to say there is a "chance" they will catch fire, but
let us say there is. What is the "chance" that they will all catch fire within
the first few days of use?

This is all quite damning, and unfortunately is probably going to put a dent
in Android adoption. With Samsung being the more premium Android brand, I
suspect many people will pick-up an Apple instead. But that is just
speculation.

~~~
hueving
>This is all quite damning, and unfortunately is probably going to put a dent
in Android adoption

Not likely. There are tons of other Android phones that people can use
(including the new pixel). Everyone I've talked to (including non technical
people) about this have associated this with Samsung, not Android.

~~~
cdubzzz
You have to imagine it will have some affect. I purchase the phones for my
company and the (all non-technical) people who come me to generally ask,
"Should I get an Apple or a Samsung?".

~~~
oneeyedpigeon
This is kinda the point. Those people aren't saying "android", they're saying
"Samsung. This isn't going to affect android sales in general, other than the
fact that Samsung accounts for a big chunk. Google is aiming to take that
chunk, and more - they'll be saying "pixel" this time next year.

~~~
pedalpete
Except that Samsung is the largest supplier of Android. So if somebody was
going to get an Android, it is likely they were going to get a Samsung.

[https://www.comscore.com/Insights/Rankings/comScore-
Reports-...](https://www.comscore.com/Insights/Rankings/comScore-Reports-
January-2016-US-Smartphone-Subscriber-Market-Share)

If they don't get a Samsung, it is possible they will go to Apple, the other
large supplier.

~~~
oneeyedpigeon
I acknowledged that and predicted that Google will increasingly encroach on
Samsung's market share.

