
America is one of the few cultures with insults for smart people? - Leary
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2018/05/15/commentary/world-commentary/america-one-cultures-insults-smart-people/
======
gnufied
I am not sure how much of this is true. In India for example - people do get
called "Kitabi Kida"(bookworm) and I forget but there is a insult for people
who have gained knowledge from reading books but aren't street smart.

India elected Narendra Modi who is decidedly nowhere as educated as previous
prime minister. The state I am from(Bihar) had series of Chief Ministers who
weren't all the educated(or even intelligent as a matter of fact).

I think people select their politicians differently than how they would select
their Doctor or mechanic to repair their car or engine. I don't need my doctor
to relate to my economic difficulties to treat my illness but this may be a
desirable trait in a politician.

The point is - smart people are not always likable and in a politician
likability and ability to relate yourself to him/her(even if faked) are
desired qualities.

The author may have a point about schools spending lot of money on stadiums
and sports and ignoring investment in science and technology but there may be
other reasons for that - other than unbridled hate for smart people.

~~~
prab97
The other word you forgot was 'maggu' \- someone who mugs up everything.

~~~
scarejunba
These insults seem to be targeted at unintelligent people who try to brute
force their way to success.

That's "insults for hard work" perhaps, but not "insults for smart people".

~~~
yetihehe
It's more like "insults for lying about your abilities" not for hard work.

------
coldtea
There are insults for smart people in many countries.

In Britain, for example, there's a whole attitude about anybody daring to
appear smart, well read, etc that's combined with class putdowns and terms
like "pretentious wanker" and such.

Or, what americans would deride as a "nerd" for Brits it would be a "swot"
(but it's meaning I think combines nerd with teacher's pet and bookworm).

French have "intello", a derogatory term for intellectual types. Greeks have a
similar connotation "kulturiaris" (and a term for nerd/geek that's
"spasiklas").

In Spanish, where the author says he couldn't find a term for "geek", they
have "empollon".

In Italian the same would be secchione.

~~~
bolaft
> French have "intello", a derogatory term for intellectual types

"Intello" is not derogatory, it's just short for intellectual.

~~~
coldtea
Well:

intello m, f (plural intellos) (informal, derogatory) highbrow (informal,
derogatory) nerd, egghead

Also, "intello coincée" and such.

It can also stand for just shorthand, as many terms have dual informal
derogatory and friendly use (for that matter, geek has also been used
positively in the US as well for a few decades).

------
shalmanese
I think almost every culture has a term for people who are on the asperger
spectrum and have high IQ but low EQ. In Chinese, "理工男" translates to roughly
"Science Guy" and refers to people who are like Sheldon on the Big Bang
Theory. "书呆子" means bookworm and refers to people with a lot of book smarts
but not much street smarts.

------
GuiA
_I turned to Google Translate in search of a French translation for the
English word “geek.” There wasn’t one._

Maybe ask a French person then. “Intello” (dismissive diminutive of the word
“intellectuel”) is in very common usage amongst school kids, and has been
since at least the 60s. “Premier de la classe” (first of the class) is also
used very pejoratively by children. Recently though, the French have been very
happy to use the word “geek” (albeit pronounced with a French accent) in its
original English meaning.

 _On the other hand, languages like French are extremely rich in insults for
stupid people: “bete comme ses pieds,” or “dumb as hell,” literally means “as
stupid as his /her feet.”_

American English is full of expressions just as colorful than the French in
that regard, eg “not the brightest crayon in the box”, “not the sharpest tool
in the shed”, “dumber than a bag of hammers”, etc.

This blog post is just a succession of these easily falsiable generalizations
that try to use pseudo-linguistic reasoning to demonstrate a blanket sweeping
subjective statement (“Americans hate smart people”).

~~~
lloeki
Indeed I found the premise about romantic languages quite ridiculous as I
could readily think of a few pejoratives in French from the top of my head,
and pretty sure I forget or miss some of them, so when TFA reaches to French I
was flabbergasted.

"Intello", "être une tête" (can be used both positively and negatively),
"grosse tête", "quatre-yeux" (typical image of nerds with thick glasses),
"tête d'ampoule" (probably the closest to nerd together with "intello"),
"avoir une tête de premier de la classe", "binoclard", "coincé", "pingouin",
"rat de bibliothèque", "taupe"...

------
panic
Is the entire premise of this article really based on the author typing words
into Google Translate?

~~~
PhantomGremlin
No, that's only half of it. The other half is to smugly remind us how much
smarter Democrats are than Republicans.

    
    
       Clinton > Trump
       Gore > Bush
       Stevenson > Eisenhower
    

Remarkable how, in this writer's mind, an intellectual noted for "promotion of
progressive causes in the Democratic Party" is obviously superior to a five-
star general who played a very key part in the Allies defeating Hitler in
WWII.

~~~
cbsmith
I'm not sure I'd agree that. I felt it was more revealing about the author &
their context than anything else.

------
seanhunter
Anti-intellectualism is pretty strong in the UK too. For example in one of the
defining moments of the Brexit campaign, Michael Gove was confronted by an
open letter from a large number of leading economists saying how damaging
Brexit would be to the economy and said “people in this country have had
enough of experts”.

~~~
Smaug123
While I have no love of Gove, this is a very unfair and context-free quote.
The full quote is as follows:

> I think that the people of this country have had enough of experts with
> organisations from acronyms saying - from organisations with acronyms -
> saying that they know what is best and getting it consistently wrong,
> because these people - these people - are the same ones who got consistently
> wrong.

~~~
Vinnl
Wow. I've seen the quote often, but never with that surrounding context.
Completely makes you understand why politicians would be unwilling to talk
with the press.

~~~
lordgrenville
Do you think that there's a substantial difference between "the public is
tired of experts" and "the public is tired of experts from fancy organisations
getting things wrong"? Sincerely asking - I think the context helps, but the
short version doesn't seem like a misrepresentation of the main idea.

~~~
coldtea
Yes, there is.

One is made to look like you don't want "experts" in general, e.g. because
you're anti-science or whatever. You might not even want an expert doctor, but
instead e.g. pray.

The second is about not wanting BS experts (analysts, media pundits,
economists) on the payroll of some "fancy organization", that have a track
record of being wrong.

~~~
lordgrenville
OK, that is helpful. Thanks!

------
mercurialshark
I think the author entirely misses the primary issue due to linguistic and/or
cultural context omissions.

Generally speaking, when someone is called a nerd or (insert uncool
descriptive modifier), it's not implied that being smart or studious is
something people should be embarrassed of.

Instead, it's implying the _lack_ of some other social skill, trait or
normative behavior (i.e., not participating in sports as a child or general
difficulty fitting in).

For example, being a genius or reliable hard worker is almost universally
admired. Yes, even in the United States. However, if an individual is
brilliant yet lacks the social skills to fit in, appears to try too hard
relative to the group or makes others feel uncomfortable, their behavior may
be seen as idiosyncratic or weird.

Individuals that can display their cognitive abilities while inspiring,
impressing or leading others are usually admired.

------
JoachimS
I've noted that the journalists at The Register are unable to write an article
about scientists discovering, inventing something without using the word
"boffin". See for example:

[https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/08/28/hacking_motion_cont...](https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/08/28/hacking_motion_control/)

[https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/07/27/screaming_channels_...](https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/07/27/screaming_channels_attack/)

[https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/08/01/ncsc_ubuntu/](https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/08/01/ncsc_ubuntu/)

~~~
wemdyjreichert
They're British.

------
zakum1
In South Africa, the previous President, Jacob Zuma, famously used a label
“clever blacks” for well educated black people who he felt didn’t support his
populist / traditionalist policies. across cultures in SA, there is a definite
“macho” bias and a bias towards “eloquence” (sometimes at the expense of
thoughtfulness). I have spent substantial time in Asia and both of these
differences are very obviously different. I would say that Europe is somewhere
in between.

------
hegz
Since when did English == America?

All of these words exist and are used in other English speaking countries.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Tall poppies seem to be unique to NZ.

~~~
RikNieu
Aren't Tall poppies rich/snobbish people?

~~~
seanmcdirmid
It is used to describe over achievers in general. From wiki:

> Recent research performed at University of Waikato in New Zealand shows that
> a culture of tall poppy syndrome may result in a reduction in average
> performance of up to 20% for an organisation and explains how electronic
> cyberbullying can be considered a modern extension to the physical
> assassinations of King Tarquin's day.[17]

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome)

------
kbos87
Sorry, but America is a society that enshrines and holds intelligence so, so
high. If you are "smart", you are afforded all sorts of privileges that
everyone else misses out on. The intelligent don't need a sob story or a
defense in America, they are scoring a close second to those that already have
and control the wealth and resources here.

~~~
labbyz
I see an extreme focus on GPA, even employers considering that score during
hiring. This is fairly alien to the other Western cultures I've sampled.

Also the latest "taboo" is discrimination on intelligence. You can not help it
that you were born below the IQ Bell curve. "You just gotta work harder for
it" is like telling an overweight person to "just stop eating so much".
Difficulty learning new material puts you at an eternal disadvantage, with no
way to catch up to what smart people are learning in their teens and early
twenties.

The big five openly discriminate on intelligence. Intelligence and aptitude is
also correlated with your upbringing (Did you have smart parents to guide your
academic career and interests? Were they rich enough to help put you through a
good college?).

For all the renewed interest in identity politics and combating
discrimination, intelligence is really the odd one out. High school teachers
berate you for something that isn't your fault, it is commonly accepted to
call out your low IQ, no matter how much you want to work for a tech company
-- even if they favor women, poor people, minorities, war veterans, the
disabled -- you are not going to get hired to fill some neurodiversity quota.

The ease with which the left ridicules, stigmatizes, and marginalizes right
politicians (Bush & Trump) and those that vote for them is astounding to me.
"Those idiot low-educated racists ruined it all! They are not smart enough to
vote rationally!". Change "low-intelligence" with any other protected status
and such language becomes vile and primitive.

~~~
davvolun
In my personal experience, after you've been out of school for about a year,
nobody cares the least bit about GPA or any of that stuff. It's a placeholder
differential for someone who doesn't yet have relevant experience.

There's a big difference between someone born with a low-IQ and someone who
actively maintains their own ignorance. You can argue whether the left is
crossing that line in some places, but some portions of the right actively
attack higher education, whether it's "trying to convert our kids to
socialists" or "attacking Christian values" \-- pursuing an education is
positive, full stop, no matter what your IQ is.

Also, "stigmatizes and marginalizes right politicians"? You're arguing
politicians on the right are being marginalized? And two examples you're using
are the last two GOP POTUSes? That's not marginalization. And of course,
notably, for all the "coastal elites" talk -- Trump is pretty much the
definition of a coastal elite, a billionaire born into privilege who went to
an Ivy league college and has lived in NYC his whole life.

------
marcoperaza
Smart people seem particularly prone to intellectual fads (religions in their
own way) and being eager to use coercion to implement their ideas. Maybe it’s
good to have a great mass of down-to-earth, practically-minded folks as a
counterbalance. Open ridicule of the hoity-toity elite has been
quintessentially American for all our history.

~~~
WalterGR
What do you mean by intellectual fads? I think some examples would help.

~~~
marcoperaza
Performance environmentalism (like plastic straw bans) and some of the
whackier social justice stuff come to mind.

~~~
WalterGR
What are some examples of whackier social justice stuff?

As far as I know, plastic straw bans are to reduce the amount of unrecoverable
plastic waste as well as all the resources that went into producing it. And I
wrong? I don’t see how it’s an intellectual fad so much as policy that you
personally disagree with. Put another way, are these intellectuals who support
plastic straw bans (who??) potentially going to 'wake up' and realize one day
that they were incorrect, and that in fact plastic straws are not a source of
unrecoverable waste?

------
mdimec4
yes this title is not true: I could now throw in some string ones in my
taguage language Slovenian or in Serbian, Croatian and Bosnian

~~~
WalterGR
I’ll bite. Teach us some.

------
rectang
> _Maybe it’s time to take a cue from our proudly pro-intelligence and pro-
> education cultural cousins across the Atlantic._

Nope. I can live with the downsides of anti-intellectualism in trade for
escaping the cult of "genius". People who claim to know better than the rest
of us are dangerous.

~~~
lazyasciiart
Yes, it's so great that America doesn't do stuff like the crazy Steve Jobs and
Elon Musk worship you see in other countries.

~~~
askmike
You should visit South Korea (or Japan), where people running big business are
considered leaders by everyone in the country. Not just SV people who browse
HN.

I'm not from the US, but I'm pretty sure that the average person in most
states has never heard of either of the people you mentioned.

~~~
lazyasciiart
I have visited both and really enjoyed the trips, thanks for the
recommendation!

A movie titled 'Steve Jobs' featured half a dozen Hollywood stars and was
nominated for Best Actor and Best Actress at the Oscars - and that's not even
the one that Ashton Kutcher starred in. I work in a children's book store and
there is a 'Who is Steve Jobs?' book sitting next to 'Who is Barack Obama?'. I
think you're wrong.

------
cbsmith
The author has a track record of intellectual humour, particularly with a
political bent to it. I'm trying to decide if this article is unintentionally
ironic or just _pretending_ to be unintentionally ironic.

------
sabedevops
"It sure used to be. We stood up for what was right. We fought for moral
reasons. We passed laws, struck down laws - for moral reasons. We waged wars
on poverty, not on poor people. We sacrificed, we cared about our neighbors,
we put our money where our mouths were and we never beat our chest. We built
great, big things, made ungodly technological advanced, explored the universe,
cured diseases and we cultivated the world's greatest artists AND the world's
greatest economy. We reached for the stars, acted like men. We aspired to
intelligence, we didn't belittle it. It didn't make us feel inferior. We
didn't identify ourselves by who we voted for in the last election and we
didn't scare so easy. We were able to be all these things and do all these
things because we were informed... by great men, men who were revered. First
step in solving any problem is recognizing there is one. America is not the
greatest country in the world anymore.”

― Aaron Sorkin, The Newsroom Script Episode 1

------
anonu
This was a really fun article to read. However, extrapolating American's
insulting words for smart people to ...... the culture as a whole is dumb and
uneducated .... is insulting.

Anti-intellectualism in American politics, as the author pointed out with
Bush, is mostly made up. In most cases it's designed to make the politician
more appealing and easier to understand.

------
noobermin
Can anyone who's lived in more than one culture share whether American is more
anti-intellectual than other cultures?

~~~
phreeza
Fwiw, I had the opposite experience when coming to the us as a high school
exchange student from Germany. I did well in school, and got much more
derision for this in Germany than in the US. Could possibly have something to
do with me being an exotic foreigner though, not sure.

~~~
noobermin
Per chance, did you transfer from a public school to a private school?

~~~
phreeza
No, public to public.

------
8bitsrule
I suspect that 'smart-people insults' are somewhat universal.

Ironically (the article's from japantimes.com) there's a (reportedly well-
known) Japanese saying that might explain it: “The nail that sticks out shall
be hammered down.”

(Found that at this longest-url-contender:) [https://www.quora.com/What-do-
you-think-about-the-Japanese-p...](https://www.quora.com/What-do-you-think-
about-the-Japanese-proverb-The-nail-that-sticks-out-shall-be-hammered-down-Do-
you-think-its-cruel-Or-do-you-think-its-normal-Or-are-there-any-similar-
proverbs)

------
mirimir
Interesting, yes.

But there's more to "geek". In circuses and carnivals, a geek would capture
chickens, bite their heads off, and eat them. Now you gotta remember that most
of the audiences lived on farms, or had family who did, so chasing chickens
and cutting their heads off was pretty normal. But still ...

So anyway, "geek" is _very_ different from "bookworm" or "egghead". It's more
like unconventional, daring and uninhibited.

~~~
goliatone
As a foreigner learning American English + (pop) culture in the US one of my
favorite things is to ask people to tell me the difference between geek and
nerd. Originally because I was having a hard time grasping not so much the
meaning of the words but the connotations and projected values by those using
the words. I still ask that question and find the discrepancies amusing. But I
never heard anything about bitting chicken heads off and all that. Amazing!

~~~
mirimir
That died out in the 1940s, as I recall. It never made it to TV, not even on
the Red Skeleton Show.

------
peter_retief
That is not true, I am from South Africa and there are dozens of uniques
cultures here and they all have derogatory terms for smart people

------
liftbigweights
Even in ancient greece there were jokes.

Plato wrote about Thales:

"Thales was studying the stars and gazing aloft when he fell into a well; a
witty and amusing Thracian servant-girl made fun of him because, she said, he
was wild to know about what was up in the sky but failed to see what was in
front of him and under his feet."

------
ivan_ah
"You don't have to pass an IQ test to be in the Senate"

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTSCRoYyM-Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTSCRoYyM-Y)

------
sremani
He missed IYI. 16 years of school makes you good at one thing, test taking.
America recognizes more than other cultures the high probability of bs vendors
among this test taking class.

------
mantas
Author should look more into Euro politics. Plenty of dumb people there.

Plenty of ways to make fun of smart people too.

In fact, US feels much more "cult of genius" than Europe... At least from
afar.

~~~
askmike
I very much disagree. If you look at most politicians in a high enough
positions in a lot of European countries, you won't find any movie stars
(Reagan, Eastwood, Schwarzenegger) nor reality TV stars like Trump.

The Prime minister of my country would never qualify for the terminator[1].

[1] [https://www.government.nl/government/members-of-
cabinet/mark...](https://www.government.nl/government/members-of-cabinet/mark-
rutte)

~~~
mantas
My country had "party of entertainment stars" take 2nd in parliament elections
several years ago. Then long time TV star served as head of parliament. Most
recent election was won by literally "farmers party" with quite a few..
interesting personalities. We alone should make up for NL being boring :) And
then we got Italy...

------
TomMckenny
From the comments it looks like we have a more interesting question than the
article's.

Why do humans frequently/occasionally dislike smart people?

------
abraham_lincoln
Never was a fan of 'GeekSquad'. I feel it is derogatory.

But, it was well parodied in the series 'Chuck' as the 'Nerd Herd'.

------
thiago_fm
That's far from true. We have many words for smart people in Portuguese and
German as well. The other two languages I know.

------
ajuc
Nowadays geek and nerd are in every language it seems, and they even become
cool (I think so, but I'm too old now to be sure).

But I've been at school in Poland in 1990, before most English influences
started, and there were insults for people, not because they are smart, but
because they focus too much on good grades. It was cool to be smart, it was
uncool to show the effort and to care too much. Basically you didn't wanted to
be a kujon (literally - a hammerer = someone who mindlessly hammers in every
lesson to memory to get best grades).

We also had bookworm (mól książkowy) and "inteligencik" (mostly political
label given by communists and their supporters to intellectual workers who
weren't on board with the whole communist thing). Outside of politics it was
mildly negative label, and wasn't used too much.

Also, there are a few new ones associated with political issues -
"wykształciuchy" and "łże-elity" is a degrading way to call people who
graduated some university and think they are better than you but actually know
nothing. It's a word borrowed from political marketing of the current
government, which includes anti-intellectualism (because most experts disagree
with them on 99% of their policies, and their target demographics is less
educated compared to other parties).

TL; DR: I don't think anti-intellectualism is inherently American, it's a
common theme in populism. American schools are just weird (we haven't had
words for bully, cheerleader, jock either).

------
cafard
Don't the English say, "too clever by half"?

------
IshKebab
This doesn't sound remotely plausible.

------
jancsika
> On the other hand, languages like French are extremely rich in insults for
> stupid people

No you cannot use "on the other hand." Languages like English have at least as
many if not more insults for stupid people: dumbass, shit-for-brains, dipshit,
blockhead, imbecile, dullard, doofus, slack-jawed yocal, and the famous one
from Mark Twain, "an idiot of the 33rd degree."

> After food and wine, the French worship the life of the mind.

And apparently the films of Jerry Lewis[1]. So let's say those end up
canceling each other out[2].

> The United States, on the other hand, elected Donald “Celebrity Apprentice”
> Trump over Hillary “I Have a 12-Point Plan” Clinton.

I certainly cannot defend Trump's ban on Muslim face coverings in public
schools[3]. There is no denying that is due to virulent strain of anti-
intellectualism that has grown to dangerous-- one might say fascistic-- levels
as of late.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Lewis#French_critical_ac...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Lewis#French_critical_acclaim)

[2]
[https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082501/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_20](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082501/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_20)

[3]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ban_on_face_covering](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ban_on_face_covering)

------
mnm1
The culture of anti-intellectualism is strong in America and children are
indoctrinated in it from a very young age. Stupidity is worshiped. What would
one expect from a society that loves stupidity so much it encourages violence
against people who even appear smart, let alone those that are? Americans love
stupidity because the majority are incredibly stupid.

~~~
tomerico
Can you clarify more? My experience as an immigrant to America is that
Americans tend to foster a culture of ultra competativeness on everything,
including academics.

~~~
aikinai
The parent comment is extreme and ends in a baseless insult, so I definitely
don't want to defend it wholly, but the gist is true. If you think Americans
are competitive about academics, you're probably basing that on a very
specific bubble. The "from a young age" mention is especially true; in most
American public schools you basically cannot be both cool and get good grades,
unless you hide the grades very well and show an appropriate amount of public
disrespect for authority.

