
"My husband is a programmer; I have no idea what that means." - acangiano
http://www.renaebair.com/2010/08/11/my-husband-is-a-programmer-i-have-no-idea-what-that-means/
======
dkarl
_This always blows my mind. You’re married to someone, and you aren’t
interested enough in the person to know anything about what they do with
nearly 40-50% of their time, aside from their job title?_

This is underappreciated. I had a girlfriend who was an accountant. At the end
of the day, she'd want to vent about work, and guess what? I couldn't follow
her without asking some questions about accounting. Suddenly, I was interested
in accounting, because I wanted to understand why she was annoyed or stressed
or happy or relieved when she got home from work, and I didn't want to just
nod and say "uh huh, uh huh" while she was talking about something that was an
important part of her life. Now I don't give two shits about accounting.

If that's unusual, sign me up for an unusual woman.

~~~
kmfrk
I can't see how it could be any other way. If I get a girlfriend from a
different country, I'll at least try to learn the basics of her language and
be able to have some decent conversations. Anything else would be a conscious
disinterest in your girlfriend and what makes her tick. It's almost a blessing
to have such an glaring chance to learn more about your significant other.

~~~
megablast
I have a theory that most people just don't like being alone, so finding
someone to fulfill that need is enough. It doesn't matter what that person
does, what they look like etc... As long as they are reasonably inoffensive,
then they are a winner. It is called settling, most people do it.

~~~
lsc
no, that's different. Sure, we all settle for the best we think can get, or
the first 'good enough' (or the third 'good enough' or whatever. we choose a
mate. You are unlikely to pick the absolute most optimal person.)

The previous comments in this thread (and the article) suggest that once you
do choose a person, for whatever reason, "settling" or not, you should put
some effort in to better understanding and relating to them.

~~~
sn
Too bad my presence on hacker news doesn't count.

~~~
lsc
Actually, it's a pretty good example, I think, of how you pay more attention
to the boring business crap I care about, even though we already have pretty
big overlaps in professional interests. I certainly feel like you value me,
and that you value my skills, even though it could be said that you are, uh,
more technically skilled than I am.

I was mostly speaking out of past relationship experiences... at one point I
was seeing a student- a psychology major, even. She thought my skills and
interests were, well, kindof dumb, and I felt the same way about hers (I was,
uh, quite a lot younger than I am now.) I think the relationship lasted all of
two months, and it is pretty amazing, considering how little we were willing
to value the mental aspects of the other, that it lasted that long.

------
dasil003
The thought process that programming requires is tiresome and tedious to my
wife. The fact that her eyes glaze over when I talk about the details of my
day does not mean that she doesn't care about what programming means to me in
the greater human sense.

One of the reasons I married her is precisely because she is so different from
me, and the fact that I must describe things to her as a layperson actually
improves my communication skills greatly. I would never dream of being
offended that she does not want to put forth the effort to grasp the gritty
details of what I do.

That said, she does know what Ruby on Rails is :)

~~~
megablast
There is a difference between boring someone with what you do, and talking
about what you did that day. It can be a fine line, but there is always a way
to explain in layman terms what you do.

Do you not talk to your wife about what she does during the day?

~~~
dasil003
Of course, we always talk about our day. Depending on what it is it's very
easy to talk about (ie. office politics or user-facing features). On the other
hand if I spent all day debugging a race condition I _might_ go into an
analogy or I might just jump to how it made me feel, etc.

------
seldo
Reading this just makes me think it should be laughably simple to date another
gay male (mostly PHP) programmer[1]. We'd automatically share interests! But
WHERE THE FUCK ARE YOU GUYS?!

[1] see [http://www.smbc-
comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1927#c...](http://www.smbc-
comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1927#comic)

~~~
davidw
It's brave to come out and admit so publicly that you use PHP.

~~~
nuclear_eclipse
Hi. My name is John, and I use PHP.

~~~
TheSmoke
there, there.

------
dpritchett
Site seems to have died. The entire text is reposted at this reddit comment:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/d02be/my_husban...](http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/d02be/my_husband_is_a_programmer_i_have_no_idea_what/c0wjlgr)

 _Do you get that glazed, faraway look in your eye when you partner starts
talking about a programming problem, or the newest testing framework? There’s
no need to be bored. Ask questions, try to understand! When I meet women
today, I don’t avoid talking about the work that I do, my love for pc gaming,
or my fascination with D &D and other such geekery. Often I’ll get a response
along these lines: “Programming? My husband does something like that I think.”
To which I always inquire, “Oh really? What language does he work with?” Their
response is always the same: “Language? huh. I have no idea. There’s more than
one? I don’t really know what he does. I don’t pay attention to that stuff.”
This always blows my mind. You’re married to someone, and you aren’t
interested enough in the person to know anything about what they do with
nearly 40-50% of their time, aside from their job title? ..._

(click the link above to continue, I don't want to repost the entire text)

~~~
adambair
It was dead for a while but has since been moved to a static page.

~~~
ericabiz
Posted by the husband! I bet that was an interesting conversation you had with
her about static vs. dynamic pages. ;)

------
Jun8
Proggit has a wonderful comment for this story. For those of you who don't go
there often, here it is:

Back in my early 20's, when I was just out of university and doing any old
contract job that came around, I happened to be working on a particularly
complex project that involved a heavy amount of annoyingly complex javascript
(before the days of jQuery). I ended up burning myself out trying to hit an
impending deadline. I collapsed into bed in the middle of the day.

A little while later, my (then) girlfriend (now wife) came into the bedroom to
ask if everything was ok and, waking up in a stupor and not really being
conscious about what I was saying, I mumbled that it was all going wrong and I
was hoping she would help me (she's not a programmer and wouldn't know where
to start). I woke up a few hours later to find her stressing over one of my
javascript reference books and looking at me with sad eyes, saying she didn't
make much progress, because it was all a bit confusing.

~~~
emeryc
That is amazingly sweet. Could you link to the comment opn proggit itself as
well?

~~~
Jun8
Here's the link:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/d02be/my_husban...](http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/d02be/my_husband_is_a_programmer_i_have_no_idea_what/c0wk5nq)

~~~
bruceboughton
The comments in reply to that are a brilliant example of why I don't read
reddit much.

------
raquo
OK, obligatory inversion: What do you (programmer/etc.) know about your
girlfriend's passion?

~~~
jseliger
My GF is in med school, so I now know why it's vastly smarter to go into
nursing than medicine, why so many doctors are unhappy, and why Penelope Trunk
is right when she says that medical and law school force you to overinvest:
[http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2009/02/03/dont-try-to-
dodge-t...](http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2009/02/03/dont-try-to-dodge-the-
recession-with-grad-school/) .

In addition, I know that you don't want residents making major care decisions
on their own.

~~~
neutronicus
_it's vastly smarter to go into nursing than medicine_

My girlfriend just graduated from nursing school, so I know a lot of recently-
graduated nursing students. They do not agree with you. At all.

Doctors don't have to clean feces off of people who are too obese to move.

~~~
jseliger
I asked her about this: "Doctors don't have to clean feces off of people who
are too obese to move."

She said, "Yes, we do. Not only have I had to do just that, but I've had to
put my finger in the rectum of an obese, eighty-year-old man, and literally
pick out an impacted wedge of poop, after which, I had to insert a tube that I
squirted water into and use a bucket to catch what came out. Later in the day,
when I was checking on somebody, they vomited on me. And this was at the end
of a thirty-hour shift, during which time I had slept like thirty minutes.
Bite me. These were not isolated incidents."

The other thing she's said to me (a lot) is that nurses can easily make $50K a
year right out of undergrad (or more), and she's actually right about this
because I didn't believe her at first: <http://www.payscale.com/best-
colleges/degrees.asp> ; the median salary for beginning nurses is $52,700. If
they don't like what they're doing, they can switch the kind of nursing they
do (while being paid) or retrain as nurse anesthetists or nurse practitioners,
who make over $100K a year.

In contrast, doctors have to go to med school for four years, incur a lot of
debt, and do a hellacious residency for three to nine years. Nurses can get
jobs with 500 hours of clinical practice; doctors need more like 20,000K
hours: [http://www.aafp.org/online/en/home/media/kits/fp-
np/educatio...](http://www.aafp.org/online/en/home/media/kits/fp-
np/educational-training.html) .

In any event, there are shitty parts of nursing, but it offers good pay for
reasonable amounts of work.

------
mbubb
Happened to my wife and I during her citizenship interviews. Brief panic.
Mumbling - eventually she came out with, "he does something with computers".
Good enough for the INS

~~~
dennisgorelik
Great observation. That [lack of knowledge about husband's profession]
reflects reality of most marriages.

~~~
run4yourlives
Citation please.

~~~
jbooth
Just use "many". Weasel word, no citation needed!

"Many democrats were concerned with the Obama admin's decision to..."

Bang. Asserted!

~~~
Devilboy
Now I can truthfully write: "Observers say that many democrats were concerned
with the Obama admin's decision to..."

~~~
megablast
Clearly you are not a journalist: "Experts say that many democrats were
concerned with the Obama admin's decision to..."

~~~
pbhjpbhj
Or for extra juice: "Our source, who requested to remain anonymous, wanted us
to know that many democrats were concerned with the Obama admin's decision
to..."

~~~
gametheory
don't forget "for fear of recriminations"

~~~
mirkules
or "because he is not authorized to publicly discuss the details"

------
tlrobinson
Funny she mentions LEGO, I credit my desire to become an engineer/programmer
to my childhood obsesession with LEGO. Apparently it's a cliche?

~~~
quantumhobbit
Well I'm supporting that cliche too. When I was a kid I took over the spare
bedroom with LEGO trains and cities. I spent hours obsessively building, sort
of how I write code now. Just hearing her one mention of LEGO made me want to
get the blocks out and play.

~~~
samdk
I just _did_ get my Lego blocks out to start playing!

~~~
mvalle
That's the best thing about having a nephew, the Legos.

------
run4yourlives
Wife with remarkably similar interests to husband takes interest in his
passions, story at 11.

Hrm. Not that I disagree, but it is abundantly clear that this husband and
wife combo are very similar people. At least on her end.

If she is suggesting that she learned Ruby and started writing a blog because
she wanted to know her husband better I'm calling BS. She did these things
because she herself is interested in them.

If I am to be cynical: She shares her husband's interests, that much is clear,
but is the experience mutual, and if not is she in any position to critique
others?

 _He was a trooper._

This is what you say when you know someone is participating in an activity
simply because they know you enjoy it, not so much because they are avid
hikers (or rubyists) themselves.

None of that bothers me. In fact it seems to be - at least on her part - the
key to enjoying life with another person.

What bothers me is that she openly mocks women that don't seem to have an
passion for all the things their husbands do. It ignores that there (should
be) a whole lot more to a person that a single passion. It ignores that many
of those particular things may be what is shared. Most importantly it ignores
the fact that she actually isn't doing what she claims to be doing at all.

There is no reason why any particular passion should be elevated to a level
that it cannot be "excluded" from an important relationship, provided there
are shared experiences in other areas.

To suggest otherwise says more about the person with the passion than the one
forced to accept it, really.

~~~
abstractbill
Anyone who says _"Programming? My husband does something like that I think."_
deserves, if not mockery, then something more like pity.

Passion isn't necessary, but why bother being in a close relationship with
another person if you're not even going to learn what it is that they spend
their time working on?

~~~
run4yourlives
_Programming? My husband does something like that I think." deserves, if not
mockery, then something more like pity._

Issues with programmer ego aside, how is this any different from suggesting
that your husband is a doctor without saying he is a pediatrician, a lawyer
without saying he specializes in tax law, or a pilot without mentioning that
he flies F-16C's?

 _but why bother being in a close relationship with another person if you're
not even going to learn what it is that they spend their time working on?_

For the same reason that you have no idea what this year's hot brand of shoes
is: it's not a common interest.

Now, not having ANYTHING in common isn't exactly promising. However suggesting
that this particular passion is more important than others - _simply because
you happen to share it_ \- isn't exactly insightful.

~~~
abstractbill
Peoples' day jobs are generally something they spend at least 8 hours a day, 5
days a week doing. That's what makes them more important to know at least
_something_ about.

I don't know anyone who spends that much time thinking about shoes.

~~~
run4yourlives
So, you are essentially suggesting one of two things:

1\. People are their professions, fundamentally.

2\. You would have an issue with me not knowing the shoe answer if my wife
worked for a shoe designer.

I take issue with both statements.

~~~
abstractbill
I wouldn't put it quite that strongly, but you're actually not far off.

I would say: If you were lucky enough to grow up with good enough
opportunities (education particularly) that mean you don't have to take
whatever job you can get, then you owe it to yourself to find a job that you
can be passionate about - after all, you're probably going to spend at least
40 hours a week doing it!

Given the assumption that two people in a serious relationship are this lucky,
and so have full time jobs that they are passionate about, then yes - I do
think the relationship would be lacking something fundamental if one partner
said "Uh, <job title>? I think my partner does something like that".

~~~
run4yourlives
You're making the same mistake the author does: Appeal to Ridicule.

It is most certain that partners need to invest something in a relationship,
and by default that includes experiencing the partner's passion.

Have you ever thought that the open admission of ignorance disguises the fact
that the person is fully aware of the level of expertise that they do no have?
In other words: programming is hard - too hard for most to fully appreciate.
Being open to this is a basic admission of the fact, not a cast off.

To suggest that these people are off limits because of this is just silly. To
suggest it by using an example of partner that is also a programmer even more
so.

~~~
zackattack
I think people are missing the point. A woman who answers "I think my husband
does something like that" is probably with a guy who's only doing it for the
decent paycheck. This type of programmer is the one joelonsoftware and all of
the tech elite crowd discourage hiring. I promise you that for a lot of people
who work a job only for the money, the last thing they want to talk to their
spouse out is the work. Career and passion are different. This thread sucks.

------
CRASCH
TLDR: I have a somewhat funny story...

I got married in 1997 the same year I started working on local number
portability. Local number portability is the system that allows people to keep
their phone number and change their carrier. Wire line local number
portability happened first and then wireless number portability went live in
November 2003. I had been working in this area for about six years.

About a week before the system went live. I'm on site and in a meeting. We
were covering all the test results and launch plan details. I get a call from
my wife. I figured it was important because she knew I was on-site. I take the
call. she says, "Guess what I just heard. You are going to be able to change
cell phone companies and keep your number! Isn't that cool?" "Um, Hun what do
you think I've been working on for the last six years?"

------
techiferous
I'm a computer geek and met my future wife at college. She also "lived
directly across the hall from me". She thinks programming is cool and enjoyed
the programming course she took in college. She became a teacher for a while
and I thought that was cool and joined her (at the same school) for three
years. So I totally agree with this blog article. Be interested in what your
significant other is doing; it's better that way.

------
balding_n_tired
"Is it dangerous to draw a correlation between high divorce rates and the lack
of interest that people have in their partners lives?"

Perhaps not, but "in their lives" need not mean "in every aspect of their
lives". I think it's great for anyone, in a relationship with a programmer, or
not, to learn about programming. But simple observation tells me that a
relationship does not rely on the s.o.'s ability to talk learnedly about Perl
v. Python v. Ruby.

------
sigstoat
am i the only one who thinks that the language they work in is not the most
interesting or fundamental aspect of their programming career?

~~~
Charuru
This only applies if you're working on an uncool language, like Java or .Net,
otherwise the language is part of your identity.

~~~
hugh3
If that's so, you need a bigger identity.

~~~
philwelch
Or a smaller one.

------
joelhaasnoot
This is a good read! Ran into something today where I used the same i variable
for two nested for loops, and told my gf about how it was frustrating but
simple once found. It was wonderful to hear she actually understood, having
taken some basic college (web) programming courses. That kind of simple
understanding really can make your day, and reinforce the relationship.

------
elptacek
Sure, it's all wine and roses... until the day you find yourself fighting with
your spouse over a bug.

It happens.

~~~
dmor
make sure to use source control... lots of married couples don't ;)

but seriously, we've had fights over that

------
Mgccl
Is it me or am I reading too much into "Finding out that he also played guitar
sealed the deal. " My first thought was this comic:
<http://www.explosm.net/comics/897/>

------
GBKS
My wife is like that for a specific reason. While I do a lot of coding and
development, it's not really my main interest. My main interest is making
awesome interactive experiences.

Programming is my hammer. I know how to use it, but I prefer talking about
what I do with the hammer. In turn, my wife knows about what you can do on my
latest web project, and has no clue about coding.

Might be a slightly different context than the article, but I wanted to point
out that there is a difference in the technical aspect of somebody's work and
what "they do".

------
mxavier
This article is of particular interest to me. I spend a good deal of my time
as a young single guy immersed in technology and hacker culture. However, when
I'm around women or trying to meet women, I instinctively will only discuss
generalities as in "I write web applications" and leave it at that unless they
are adamant about finding out more, which very rarely occurs.

I'm not necessarily saying this is a bad thing but at the end of the day it
does feel kind of bad to feel the need to push a pretty big part of your
personality off into the corner because a majority of the women you'll meet
don't care and will get annoyed if they have to hear about it. Nothing feels
worse than telling a story and watching your audience dart their eyes, grow
bored and try to think of ways to feign interest.

~~~
GBKS
I'd say something like "Last week I build a website where you can do x and y.
Somebody just did z on it and it was so cool because of...". Frame it in
practical real-world terms and present it as an exciting, high-tech thing
you're doing.

Don't give facts, tell a story.

------
rlachenal
My wife was the company nurse in a training outfit I attended in the 90s. Her
"guitar" caught my eye too.

~~~
zackattack
Exactly. Commonalities are just a useful pretext/rationalization for starting
a conversation.

------
vl
Ironically, if you work at large corporation you quite often just can't talk
about what exactly you are doing. The amount of secrecy at some companies is
worse than at terrible, however enjoyable, TV series "The Unit".

~~~
philwelch
"What did you do at work today?" "I'll tell you next year."

------
wslh
My wife is a dentist, and I took part of her time to explain what I do showing
some naive sort algorithm.

At the end she asked why I need to do all that stuff if she can click on an
excel option to sort the data!

~~~
nailer
Sort algorithms are a shitty way of learning to program. Yes, I'm aware of
that's how programming is typically taught.

You need to make something before you can make it fast. Hopefully something
interesting and cool. Why not show her a 10 line app that loops through all
her Facebook friends and gets their phone numbers?

------
philwelch
This is my girlfriend's mentality too, but I'm so used to people not knowing
or caring about my geeky interests that I'm often reluctant to tell.

~~~
cparedes
Same here (at least with other people not really caring too much about my own
interests.) A lot of people I've talked to have even actively refuse to take
interest.

My girlfriend is redoing her Java assignments and is going to do the OCW MIT
course on Python very soon; I'm very very happy for her and she seems to
really enjoy programming. Right now, I'm trying to get her to play a few of my
computer games with me. :)

------
mattwdelong
It means that when your site goes down, there is a pretty good chance your
husband can put it back up for you.

------
doki_pen
Another hoax, huh?

:wink:

------
Infomus
"It was no accident that years later I knew that “Ruby on Rails” wasn’t a
rebellious act of sacrificing precious gems on railroad tracks in hipster
neighborhoods."

News to me!

