
Amtrak exploring ending Southwest Chief through service - niftich
http://www.hutchnews.com/news/20180626/amtrak-exploring-ending-southwest-chief-through-service
======
brianstorms
I just rode the Southwest Chief from New Mexico to Illinois and back, last
month.

Had a long talk with one of the conductors while on the trip. We discussed the
remarkable pattern that the Republicans follow: starve everything they don't
like (or that they want to privatize so they can pocket the money), then use
the subsequent difficulties and failures and budget shortfalls of the starved
agency as proof that the agency can't function and deserves being shut down.
They do this with Amtrak, they do it with the State Department, they do it
with public schools, they do it with state universities, with healthcare, with
prisons, with everything they want to privatize.

Funny, they do this with minorities too. Systematically deny them, over many
generations, a good education, decent healthcare, safe neighborhoods, ability
to vote, and economic opportunity, and then blame them for being uneducated,
unhealthy, unsafe, frauds during elections, and for not contributing to the
overall economy. Funny how the Rs' playbook is the same everywhere you look.

As for Amtrak, all the transcontinental routes are in jeopardy, the conductor
told me. It's only a matter of time before they're gone.

No other civilized country in the world has such lousy transportation
infrastructure. Especially trains. The U.S. should have bullet trains going
everywhere, but no.

~~~
jcranmer
> No other civilized country in the world has such lousy transportation
> infrastructure. Especially trains. The U.S. should have bullet trains going
> everywhere, but no.

It depends on what metric you use. The US freight rail system is the envy of
the world, for example.

The reality is that HSR isn't cost-effective if the trip takes more than about
5 hours. When you superimpose that time limit on the US, there's rather few
viable HSR routes. A Chicago/NYC run is at that very margin of viability--and
compared to most European countries, that's a longer trip than travelling from
one border to another. It's quite easy to set up routes in UK or in Germany
that hit all of the major cities in fairly short order, but that task is
impossible in the US. Especially grating is the lack of collinearity between
major cities; the Midwest in particular ends up having to be a star topology,
since Chicago-X doesn't include multiple cities, and there's no route useful
enough to be worth bypassing Chicago.

~~~
notlob
> The reality is that HSR isn't cost-effective if the trip takes more than
> about 5 hours.

Can you expand on that? It's not obvious to me.

~~~
1stcity3rdcoast
It’s certainly not cost-effective on a relative basis when compared to air
travel. The Delta Shuttle runs Chicago-NY-DC every hour on the half hour for a
song. Hard to compete with that on rail.

With rail you do get the benefit of landing in the middle of the city rather
than an airport 30 mins from city center, but it’s still far less expensive in
both time and money to fly when the trip exceeds about 4 or 5 hours.

~~~
ghaff
And, indeed, high-speed rail isn't very price competitive with budget air a
lot of the time either. Doesn't mean it's a bad idea; transporting a lot of
people who are willing to pay a premium off the roads and out of airports may
well be a net win. But understand that it's premium travel.

------
niftich
The Southwest Chief runs between Chicago and LA, via Kansas City, Albuquerque,
and Flagstaff. It approaches Wichita within 25 miles, but bypasses it to run
west for ~350 miles across rural Kansas and Colorado, serving several small
towns, and forming a significant transportation backbone. Thereafter, between
La Junta, CO (east of Pueblo, CO) and Lamy, NM (adjacent to Santa Fe, NM), the
Southwest Chief runs over track owned by BNSF that the freight railroad no
longer uses. This lattermost stretch is the most troublesome section, and the
topic of much of the article.

BNSF has offered [1] to host this train over a different route that it
actively uses -- the Southern Transcon. Using the Southern Transcon would add
direct service to Wichita, Amarillo, Clovis, and Vaughn, but would bypass
southwest Kansas, southeast Colorado, and northeast New Mexico. Doing so would
also remove direct service from Albuquerque and put it even further from Santa
Fe. If it weren't for the Albuquerque complication, this would be a pretty
good route.

Amtrak has, under its previous leadership, worked with the governments of
Kansas, Colorado, and New Mexico, and various localities along the route to
solicit funding for continuing the service over its original route. It also
got some federal grants. Previous CEOs were staunchly supportive of continuing
long-distance service. The new CEO, significantly less so. Representatives
from these states were caught unaware by his new approach, and now those
matching funds could be in question.

The Southwest Chief is a notable cross-country service, but it's also the
transportation backbone of southwest Kansas and southeast Colorado. In my
opinion, KS and CO, together with Amtrak and BNSF, should investigate a
service between eastern Kansas (e.g. Wichita or KC) and Denver, serving many
of the same rural towns of both, but also the major cities of Pueblo, Colorado
Springs, and Denver in Colorado. The track is owned by BNSF and is in good
shape, and would provide service to new markets on a less fraught route. New
Mexico should investigate a solution that works for them, which may or may not
include more transportation options from Las Vegas, NM, to Santa Fe and
Albuquerque, and working with Texas to explore routes towards Lubbock and
Dallas.

[1] [https://www.codot.gov/about/southwest-chief-
commission/swchi...](https://www.codot.gov/about/southwest-chief-
commission/swchief-interim-leg-sub-comm-110614-v8-final)

~~~
OldHand2018
> The Southwest Chief is a notable cross-country service, but it's also the
> transportation backbone of southwest Kansas and southeast Colorado. In my
> opinion, KS and CO, together with Amtrak and BNSF, should...

Stop right there. Colorado and Kansas should, together, buy the 219 mile
segment that BNSF no longer uses and no longer wants to maintain. They can
then hand off management of the segment to Amtrak and leave BNSF completely
out of it.

Back in 2012, the Republican-controlled, car-loving state of Michigan bought a
135 mile segment from Norfolk Southern. At this time, over 90% of the Chicago-
Detroit Amtrak service in Michigan runs on publicly-owned rail (Amtrak owns
another large segment). The Michigan Department of Transportation maintains
the line for 110 mph service.

There is no reason that Kansas and Colorado can't do the same. It's just a
lack of ambition.

~~~
dreamcompiler
Good idea. New Mexico needs to be included too. There's probably more of this
track segment in NM than in Colorado.

------
watersb
Las Vegas, New Mexico is a town that used to be a major rail station. Amazing
Victorian houses, as the rail line enabled prosperous folk to import building
materials and household items from Sears-Roebuck in Chicago. 100 years before
Amazon was a thing.

I love the Lamy Amtrak station and ride every chance I get to leave town. Los
Angeles for less than $100, or the other direction from Lamy to Raton to visit
the family ranch.

Two months ago we rode that line out of Lamy and I was really surprised how
busy it was, at least 50 people boarding at that station.

My favorite vacation ever was a long sleeper-car service, out of Emeryville
(my home town at the time) and Denver. The views are spectacular. Meals are
inclded with the sleeper service, and is really good. The people are
remarkable. I was working for an early dot-com at the time and I slept deeply
for 12 hours.

Also: NO STRESS of an airport. FREE PARKING. Show up 20 minites early,
whatever, just walk right up and get on the train.

Even with coach service, the seats are huge recliners and you don't need to
stay in your seat. Walk around!

------
JohnTHaller
Interesting how the politicians demand it be kept running and maintained yet
don't talk about where the $30-$50 million in repairs to the existing track or
the $55 million to install the required positive train controls safety systems
will come from.

~~~
moorhosj
I find it interesting that politicians increase military spending by $100
billion or we cut future revenue by $1 trillion and nobody bats an eye.
Meanwhile, people hem and haw over $50 million to maintain critical
infrastructure.

~~~
losteric
Rich people sell guns, poor people ride trains.

Not all of them, obviously, but enough to "guide" the decisions of career
politicians.

~~~
ghaff
By and large poor people ride buses or drive. Buses go a lot places trains do
not and, in the Northeast, buses are far cheaper than trains. Get above about
500 miles or so and planes are often cheaper.

------
solsticedev
This is sad; as a Boy Scout I actually rode this train from Chicago to Raton
for a trip to Philmont Scout Ranch. I know my troop and many others utilize
this transportation option as flying can be expensive and inconvenient for
large groups, especially when you are bringing large backpacking gear with TSA
prohibited or check-only items like camping stove fuel, pocket knives, etc.

~~~
paulie_a
I hate to break it to you but some of those items don't seem to be allowed on
Amtrak either.

------
ghaff
One of these days I'd like to do one of the Amtrak long-haul Western US routes
although I expect the idea is more appealing than the actual experience would
be.

Unfortunately, Amtrak's Northeast Corridor basically makes money that it loses
in almost of its other routes. There may be a few city pairs here that may eke
out a profit but not a lot.

~~~
394549
> One of these days I'd like to do one of the Amtrak long-haul Western US
> routes although I expect the idea is more appealing than the actual
> experience would be.

If I had to take one of those routes again, I'd do it as a sleeper car
passenger.

I took the Empire Builder as regular passenger. I'm glad I tried it once, and
the views in the Rockies were amazing, but 30+ hours straight in a reclining
seat is a bit much to do again. I think it would have been much more enjoyable
with a proper place to sleep.

~~~
gomox
Alternate view: I did it in coach but with stops in between (so not 30+ hours
at a time) and would recommend my version. One of the highlights of the trip
was talking to everyone else in the train, which is bound to happen when
you're in what amounts to a very long corridor for 12 hours at a time. Most
youngish solo travelers seemed to be doing it this way.

------
gomox
If you like long distance trains make sure you ride the Amtraks before it's
too late.

~~~
koolba
Or just go to Europe.

~~~
reaperducer
Unless you mean Russia, Europe doesn't have the same kind of long-distance
rail service. Remember Europe is geographically very small.

And as much as it pains the anti-Americans in the audience, the United States
still has the world's largest rail network. Number two is Russia, which is a
distant second, followed by China.

Source:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_rail_tran...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_rail_transport_network_size)

~~~
Doctor_Fegg
Rail network != passenger rail network, though, which was the point of the
top-level comment AIUI.

If we look at patronage, US passenger miles in 2017 were 6.53bn. UK passenger
miles in just one quarter were 10bn.

~~~
paleotrope
Well american trains don't go anywhere anyone wants to go to in a reasonable
amount of time.

~~~
ghaff
I can get from Boston to NYC in a reasonable amount of time using the train.
Very competitive with air. Not so much on my next trip from Boston to San
Francisco.

------
dreamcompiler
I use this train and it will be a pity to lose it. It's quite pleasant; you
can often get a sleeper for less than the price of a flight. Unlike a plane,
you can get up and walk around, work on your laptop, talk on the phone, charge
all your devices from a real 110v outlet, and eat fairly decent food. The
scenery is beautiful. (The onboard wifi does suck but that's no surprise; I
solve that problem by bringing my own hotspot.)

That said, over the last year or two, service has been degrading to the point
of the train often being hours late. Food quality, cleanliness, and general
attention to detail have been slipping from constant budget cuts.

------
aaronarduino
Wonder if this means that there is no hope for expanding the Amtrak line
through OKC into Kansas. I hope they are able to expand north into more
states.

------
labster
Apparently the plan is to offload management of passenger train service to the
states, as this is clearly a states' rights issue. Possibly related: the
current head of Amtrak is an airline guy.

~~~
reaperducer
_clearly a states ' rights issue_

Some of the states have formed regional rail alliances. There are also non-
profits doing good work in this area.

Example: [https://www.midwesthsr.org](https://www.midwesthsr.org)

