

Ask HN: How many hackers are also fighters? - aarongough

While I was at a Dog Brothers Martial Arts training camp last weekend I noticed that almost 70% (roughly) of the people there were involved in the IT industry in some way. Most of the people I talked to were programmers of some kind.<p>I'd be interested to see what the percentage is the other way. A lot of the martial artists I have met have been programmers, how many programmers are also martial artists?
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movix
I do Movement Meditation in a class run by a seventy year old guy. I'm the
youngest at fourty-five. It's an art, no violence or aggression, but intense
training. I don't get injured - ever.

Previously kubatan, and some close protection training. I rate Systema very
highly, but I still think running away is the best self defence. As I
mentioned in a previous post, go surfing for the best exercise of mind and
body.

~~~
aarongough
I'm intrigued by the fact that you did close protection training, I've been
looking into the same thing. I find the whole concept really interesting.

After seeing the damage the a knife-fight can do in very short order I agree
that running away is the best overall tactic. I do martial arts for fun and
for the situation where I run away and the guy chases me :-p

~~~
movix
The training I did was based on 'Sudden Attack' principles, i.e. where you're
being suddenly attacked. These are the most common forms of attack, and in
most cases, no amount of martial arts training is going to help you, because
you probably won't see it coming, or if you do, you have almost no time to
react. I know lots will disagree with me, but that's my opinion. Most
attackers are looking for an easy target, even they don't want to get hurt.
Reading the situation, and getting away from it, is far more useful than
fighting your way out of it.

If it does get rowdy, Systema or an improvised kubotan - a pen, dining spoon,
memory stick, may help you. It's always better to get out of the situation in
one piece though, and get back to some nice programming that will do some good
in the world.

~~~
aarongough
No, I totally agree with you. Walking away is always the better option: that
way there's no possibility of getting hurt!

I train for fun and for the rare situation where there's no other option but
to stand your ground.

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jacquesm
The way you've phrased your question it's kind of hard to say that you're not.

So, I'm not :)

I don't like fighting, though I appreciate the discipline and control that
goes in to things like karate.

When I was a kid and in high school I fought my lifes share of fights and
since then I've worked hard to stay away from violence in any shape or form as
much as I can.

~~~
aarongough
Fair enough! If you have a suggestion for an alternate title I would be open
to it!

I know what you mean about staying away from violence.

I was on the receiving end of a lot of bullying in High School, I guess in the
end I've gone the other way in trying to make sure that if any violence
occurs, I'll be in control of myself and, as much as possible, of the outcome.

~~~
jacquesm
Well, I wasn't in one case. That was enough of a lesson for me, even though I
was completely in the right. 3 months or so suspension, one guy in hospital,
not a good idea.

I've gotten a lot more mellow over the years though.

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le_dominator
Five years in muay thai (MTA in North Hollywood) and blue belt in brasilian
jiu jitsu. Lots of concussions, broken hands, messed up hips and tendons ;)

Seems like hackers are more into martial arts rather than MMA or muay thai or
boxing, BUT I've met some guys that are engineers and programmers.

Fighting takes a couple years to get good at and keeps you goal oriented and
focused under extreme stress and failure.

The first round is all hype, but when the third bell rings you feel like shit
getting ready to go out there. That's when doubt creeps in. Killing that doubt
in your mind or staying attacking even when you're losing is what makes a
fighter a special breed of person. Lessons are learned the hard way, but they
stick with you.

~~~
aarongough
I like what you're getting at in the last sentence, it really resonated with
me.

I think almost as importantly fighting (in a sport context anyway) teaches you
that there's a time when it's best to let things go. Learning to tap when you
recognize that someone really has something locked is an important skill!

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Novash
I used to fight Aikido but now it is hard to find time for it since I work far
(and by far I mean 2h30 each trip). Also, I recently suffered an accident
(read, nearly broke my feet) that left me with a permanent damaged tendon on
my left feet, rendering me unable to kneel down properly, which rules out the
Shi-ko exercises that are paramount on the practice of Aikido.

And yes, I miss it. Every day. Martial Arts is not called 'Art' without a
reason and I like to agree with pg that hacking is more closely related to the
artistic field than the engineering one.

~~~
aarongough
Sorry to hear about the foot. Not being able to train because of an injury is
terrible...

I damaged the tendons in my knees a while back quite badly, there was a 3
month period where I couldn't walk properly at all. In the end I found that
exercising my legs with slowly increasing intensity and taking ice baths after
every training session has put them about 90% back to what they were, and
they're still getting better!

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DanielStraight
Considering how uninteresting "no" is as a response, I think this thread will
tell you precisely nothing.

~~~
aarongough
The fact that there's already been a strong response tell me that it's at
least somewhat common...

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khafra
Systema, Silat, and Xingyi. I've noticed a lot of graduate students in the
sciences out rock climbing, too.

~~~
aarongough
That's a good mix, I don't even know what Xingyi is, I'll have to look that
up!

I've been doing Jiu-Jitsu, Boxing, Airsoft and I've just started Kali, JKD and
DBMA.

I notice a lot of martial artists like rock climbing too... I guess the
challenge appeals!

~~~
noodle
xingyi (aka hsing-i) is one of the three general internal chinese styles along
with taiji and bagua. if you've seen jet li's movie "the one", you've seen
xingyi (and bagua). its the only pop culture reference i can think of.

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ionfish
When I did ju-jitsu in university, everyone there studied physics, chemistry,
engineering or computer science.

I found it slightly surprising at the time, but I suppose the arts and
humanities students had better things to do.

~~~
Novash
Get drunk, I guess.

~~~
ionfish
Oh, we did that too, we just waited until after training.

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yummyfajitas
Eskrima (filipino martial arts) here. In addition to being fun, it also gives
you strong and flexible wrists.

~~~
aarongough
I just started Kali, which depending on your point of view, is very similar to
Eskrima. It's fantastic!

If you haven't heard about the Dog Brothers you should definitely check them
out! Full-contact stick fighting!

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schof
Krav Maga, Kali, boxing, and bits of Muay Thai and Wing Chun; Python, BASH,
and a bit of C.

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JimmyL
Karate in while studying computer engineering in University.

The Sensei was a trained mechanical engineer, and about half the group either
had iron rings (which they all took off before fighting) or were in the
process of getting them.

~~~
seanc
(Canadian Engineering graduates wear an iron ring)
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Ring>

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Evgeny
Hapkido consistently for a few years, also started some Krav Maga just a few
weeks ago. Some Taekwondo and Aikido in the past. Haven't used any in RL yet
and hopefully never will. :)

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noodle
i used to be a professional martial artist until i killed my knees. now i
fence.

~~~
aarongough
Yeah I hear you on the knees. I managed to give myself severe tendinitis in
both knees about 1 1/2 years ago, luckily I was able to slowly get rid of the
pain and get my strength back, but it's been a long road.

Do you enjoy fencing? Do you think a lot of the footwork stuff would be useful
in other martial arts? I've been wanting to try it for a long time now...

~~~
noodle
yeah, i still have knee problems with things like running for more than 15
minutes. they're better now, but i doubt they'll ever be "good".

i definitely enjoy it, for a lot of reasons. been doing it for a while now.
the transition from what i was doing to fencing was pretty smooth because of
the established general body kinesthetics and concepts you've probably picked
up along the way. they translate well. it doesn't make you automatically
awesome, but it helps you become competent quickly.

~~~
aarongough
That's great! I always find it really interesting how much of the basics from
one martial art can be applied to another. It seems to me that a lot of times
the differences are in the details.

What did you fight when you were doing it professionally?

~~~
noodle
definitely. after having fenced for a little while and then testing the
martial arts waters again, i found that i'd gained a lot of interesting,
useful insights. the commonly pointed out anecdote is that bruce lee was a
fencer, and it influenced his philosophies and development as a martial
artist.

my bread and butter was teaching. the money and opportunity wasn't around for
me with respect to fighting or tournaments or anything else to warrant
seriously focusing more on them than i was.

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iterationx
I've done karate and shaolin kung fu and wushu.

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electronslave
Having noticed a slight trend along these lines, I tend to avoid people who
are violent and have under-developed social skills, as poor anger management
strategies seem to ride along in the same bucket.

~~~
aarongough
I really don't think that I would classify too many of the people I train
with, or even fought, as 'violent'. 99% of them will avoid any fight that is
not in a controlled environment as much as possible, and anyone that is quick
to anger generally finds going to a martial arts school a very frustrating
experience. They get angry, then they lose control, then they lose. Badly.
They don't seem to hang around for more than a couple of classes.

I would also say that most people I train with have very good social skills!

The people you have to worry about are the ones that _aren't_ doing martial
arts classes, because they're just sitting in their garage, cleaning their
guns, by themselves.

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andymism
I agree. I've been practicing judo for 14 years (I'm an assistant coach at the
nearby college) and BJJ for 4. And would pretty much everone I know would
avoid a street fight.

You learn pretty fast in the dojo that you really have no idea what someone is
capable of until you take your grips. Outside the dojo, that maybe too late

~~~
aarongough
That's a very good way of explaining it. There's no point taking the chance
that the person you're messing with is willing and capable of hurting you very
badly or killing you...

