
Choosing Minecraft over Disney - don_neufeld
https://medium.com/editors-picks/57a0128b53c9
======
milesf
My kids are huge Minecraft fanatics. I set them up their own server with a
whitelist, and now they have over 40 of their friends on it building
incredible things.

Not wanting to waste this opportunity, I'm using Purugin
(<https://github.com/enebo/Purugin>) and helping them learn to write plugins
in Ruby for their server. I'm writing a book with my son and daughter about
the experience in hopes other parents out there can channel their kid's
passion into learning a skill that will serve them the rest of their lives, no
matter what occupation they choose.

Minecraft has been a life changing event in our home. My kids would rather
create than consume. That's something I can get behind as a parent.

~~~
hkmurakami
You are awesome :)

edit: if/when I have kids, I had been thinking of giving them a Linux box and
a prepaid debit card, telling them, "you can do, install, buy, or do whatever
you want with this machine, the internet connection, and the money, as long as
it's legal". This fits in nicely with the kind of thoughts and attitudes I'd
like to instill.

~~~
xal
The money part is brave and will likely work out. However, its also a great
opportunity to teach cash flow rather then balance sheet.

My dad did something really great when I was young: He paid me my entire
allowance in bulk once a year. Of course the first year it failed and I bought
all sorts of crap and was out within weeks. That was the idea. The year
afterwards I was too afraid to spend anything because it was so painful having
nothing. The year afterwards he introduced me to bonds and some stocks to help
build some income.

~~~
hkmurakami
You know, some Asian cultures (including my own - Japan) inadvertently does
this through the New Years' Money Gifts given to you from your older relatives
(uncles, aunts, grandparents). The amount differs from family to family, but
it's not rare at all to get a couple hundred bucks worth from one person. This
can add up to ~$1k easily.

So kids in these countries learn (well at least some of them) to ration this
big annual pay day over the year, deciding whether they want to buy comics or
that hot new game that came out, etc.

~~~
saraid216
I once refused my grandma's money.

This turned into a lesson on always accepting gifts. It was awkward.

------
jmduke
To me, this reads less like a Minecraft-is-great piece and more like a
tablets-are-great piece. Julie's daughter isn't just choosing Minecraft over
Disney -- she's choosing activity over passivity, creation instead of
consumption.

For the first time ever, toddlers (as in, people too young to understand how a
Gameboy works) are interacting and playing in increasingly complex ways. It's
not a niche often covered in HN, but the childrens' app market is booming at
an unparalleled level: it's why everyone from Amazon to Valve is trying to get
involved, because suddenly we have this ubiquitous magical technology that
lets our five year olds learn fractions while being on an adventure -- and the
price is $.99, instead of an overpriced $15.99 pop-up book or a $49.99 DVD.

There's a lot of FUD in this overwhelmingly technological age, but I think it
speaks volumes when I think that I'd rather be a kid now than any other time.
The future is bright.

~~~
davidrudder
It's more than that. I have an 8 year old and an 11 year old who are into
minecraft. Minecraft is 100x better than other video games. My son is using
redstone and logic gates to build things. My daughter designs these expansive
cities with, yes, pools full of wool. It's better than shooting zombies with
peas or wiping out the world with an engineered parasite.

~~~
luke_s
This seems like as good a place as any to ask for some parenting advice - I've
got a 5 year old. Everybody in his school has iPads. I've noticed a few kids
have minecraft, but I've resisted installing it on his iPad because from the
sounds of it, mincraft is a diabolically addictive game :-)

However the story and this thread is having me re-think my opinions.

So what age should I set him up with mincraft? Is it suitable for 5 year olds?

~~~
exDM69
> ...mincraft is a diabolically addictive game

Yes, Minecraft is really addictive.

> So what age should I set him up with mincraft? Is it suitable for 5 year
> olds?

Content-wise, it's definitely suitable for a 5 year old, the addiction aspect
is something you'll have to manage. It may be a good idea to start with the
creative mode.

The survival mode contains no graphic violence and the enemies are zombies and
skeletons that are already dead, although you might have to kill some cute
animals to eat (you can play vegan if you like the challenge). There's no sex
except animal reproduction, which is represented by tiny hearts and small
animals appearing.

------
MartinCron
I had to put on a blanket "live action Disney Channel show" ban after my son
(10 at the time) started marathoning "Good Luck Charlie" on Netflix and
transformed into an obnoxious little jerk, never missing a chance to make a
snarky comment. It was very disturbing. Removing the garbage quality tween
shows caused an immediate reversal.

Still, not everything Disney makes is bad, Phineas and Ferb is _brilliant_.

~~~
cschmidt
I'd have a very short list of shows that Disney makes that aren't evil.

1\. Phineas and Ferb

~~~
far33d
I have one problem with Phineas and Ferb, a show I otherwise enjoy. The sister
is a classic Disney tween show girl. It sets an awful example for my daughter
as she relates to her brother and other peers - the boys are doing all this
great, awesome, fun stuff while the girl tattles on them and cares only of
boys and popularity.

~~~
MartinCron
The other female characters (Isabella, Vanessa, et. al) are strong enough that
I can forgive the broad clumsy parody that is Candace.

------
conradev
I think too many commenters here are focusing on the positive effects of
Minecraft rather than the negative effects of modern television.

In my opinion, anything is better than Disney Channel, Nickelodeon, and their
derivatives. The author pretty thoroughly covers what is wrong with them, and
she is not alone in her opinion. I know people who have specifically blocked
those channels on their TV, so that the kids are forced to watch something
better.

~~~
cschmidt
The Disney shows are just evil - they give kids horrible stereotypes to
emulate. I know several girls that are walking little Disney show characters.
They are mean, snarky, and talk in zingers like the punchlines of Shake it Up
or A.N.T. Farm. It is kind of sad.

We see a change in behavior when our 7 year old daughter sneaks off and
watches some of these show. Instant attitude. Our clever daughter decides she
wants to be a famous dancer.

~~~
wtracy
I ate dinner in a Burger King last week that had a TV playing The Wizards of
Waverly Place.

I was horrified. The main character shows no empathy toward the people around
her (she lets some girls eat some spoiled sandwiches that she was told to
dispose of, and doesn't skip a beat when they later start vomiting) and
insults and physically attacks her brother (knocking over his food tray)
constantly without any provocation. She repeatedly mis-uses trite motivational
sound bites to deflect blame (announcing, "We could focus on the past, and on
whose fault this is, or we could focus on the now" when the fault was clearly
her own negligence--that started to make me want to punch her in the face!).
And, of course, she constantly uses magic to cover up her mistakes and avoid
responsibility.

I'm not even a parent, and I'm mad.

------
noonespecial
It was a wakeup call for me when I literally heard the Disney channel coming
out of the mouth of my 7 year old girl. I spent a day and actually watched
that stuff. Day-um. It was good for a life lesson about how tv is a huge
exaggeration of real life and you probably shouldn't talk like the characters
on tv until you can appreciate the impact of those words and attitudes.

~~~
moens
It was a wakeup call for me when I literally heard the _Fox News channel_
coming out of the mouth of my 70 year grandmother... etc. Barf.

The point is much more general: programmed stimulation is a problem. Unless
you are a slave owner, then programmed stimulation can be good for production.

~~~
w1ntermute
Well, there's a difference in that Fox News was simply telling your 70 y/o
grandmother that her preexisting views were shared by many others, and
therefore acceptable to express in public.

On the other hand, live action Disney shows have a much greater effect,
because they can permanently affect the mental and social development of young
children.

~~~
noonespecial
The part I really had trouble with was the shows had kind of a pervasive
cynicism to them while the dialog consisted largely of biting sarcasm. The
message seemed to be "whoever is fastest on the draw with a sarcastic insult
is coolest."

Just taking an episode of South Park and s///g'ing the profanity with
disnified words like "dweebiod" doesn't alchemically transmute it into
"wholesome family entertainment". If you talk to your real life friends like
the "friends" do on these shows, you're not going to have many of them.

------
rlx0x
Minecraft Lets Plays are amazing, I can't think of any other game where it
spawned such a large community. For people who want to watch a little bit more
serious Lets Plays (not just targeted at toddlers) I recommend the
MindCrack[0] server/network of Youtubers. In particular EthosLab[1]. There is
also a large community around the ForgeCraft[2] server where most major mod
creators play and test their mods. Direwolf20[3] in particular.

[0] <http://www.guudelp.com/>

[1] <https://www.youtube.com/user/EthosLab>

[2] <http://www.reddit.com/r/forgecraft/>

[3] <https://www.youtube.com/user/direwolf20>

~~~
dthunt
I actually watch Japanese Minecraft LPs - it makes for excellent study
material, and is highly entertaining.

------
alfiejohn_
Although I agree that exposure to computers is great for kids, how young is
too young?

I've got a toddler (3yo) who plays games on my phone. He's actually pretty
good at some of the platform games on it (astonishingly good considering his
age), but we're questioning his maturity with phone use.

He asks my wife all day long "when is daddy coming home", only to hear "can I
play with your phone" when I walk through the door. I'll let him play with it
for about half an hour just before dinner, but telling him to pack it away to
eat dinner is like a declaration of war.

We've gotten to the point that we've banned him outright using my phone
because of the anger/temper that it's caused. I know the links of bad
behaviour and sugar consumption, but we're thinking that phone use is _worse_.

Anybody else seen this behaviour, or is it just bad parenting?

~~~
ChuckMcM
Welcome to being a parent. Throughout their lives they will find things that
they desire above all else. Your goal should be to figure out how to use that
to teach them moderation, and 3 is about the right place to start in my
experience.

The primary goal for me at that stage was to help them understand delayed
gratification, or specifically that working on something not as fun can lead
to something fun. The secondary goal turned out to be to find other things
that are just as fun. This latter goal was abetted by reading stories like
"Bread and Jam for Frances" in which our heroine learns that while Bread and
Jam is tasty, it isn't all there is in the world.

I did not realize it at the time but the secondary goal of finding things
equally fun becomes really useful as they get older. To know from experience
that no matter how fun this thing you are doing is, there are other things
that are fun out there waiting to be discovered, helped mitigate some
obsessing on the one fun thing. Reading/books are great for that since they
come in many shapes and topics and you can learn a ton from them.

~~~
alfiejohn_
Thanks for the comment.

You're right. I think the lessons of moderation and delayed gratification
should be a goal and not a blanket ban.

Finding things equally as fun is hard. He knows what he wants... what works is
distracting him from what's in front of him to something else not equally as
fun. We'll work on that.

As for reading, he really enjoys books but just not nearly enough as gaming.
He's favorite is "The little yellow digger" and he's even memorised it. Highly
recommend it.

~~~
ChuckMcM
Well, I'm not going to say parenting is easy, it's not. If it helps there _is_
something more fun out beyond his current experience, you will know it when
you find it, and you'll be on to the next thing.

As for books, the thing with reading is to get past reading into _thinking_
and once you get there games won't be nearly as entertaining because they are
always the same. Something we've done over the years is reading and talking
about them. Even simple books like The Animorphs series have things to talk
about, or the Boxcar Kids, or any of a zillion books. Good starters are "how
would you have told this story?" or "can you create a similar one?" "What do
you think character X was thinking?" "Do you think we could build a fire with
just a rock and a piece of steel? Lets try it."

As long as you stay engaged, your kids will keep coming back. At this stage
they are genetically programmed to seek out your approval (too bad for them,
but a critical survival tool in the parental arsenal) Expect more, stay
engaged, and if you have the experience I have had you will both enjoy the
trip.

~~~
alfiejohn_
So far, reading has been passive. I'm liking the idea of prompting for the
character's thoughts. That sounds really interesting and positive. Thanks for
the suggestions.

And you're damn right. Parenting is not easy!

------
nicklovescode
I wholeheartedly support the idea of children using interactive creative
environments rather than just watch TV. However, as a non-parent, I can't
figure out why cursing is such a big deal. Many parents wouldn't bat at eye at
some pretty awful violence in movies(think Batman or something), but feel
"fuck" is cause for evacuation. I have the same issue with fear of nudity.

~~~
jernfrost
I think I can answer that as a pretty liberal parent. Like you I don't have a
big problem with cursing or nudity. But that does not mean I let my kids
listen to cursing or watch nudity willy nilly. To me it is not that the
hearing of cursing itself is bad. The problem is that kids start saying those
words themselves in inappropriate settings. That reflects badly upon you as a
parent. Things related to nudity, sex, bodily functions etc is not easy
either. Like when visiting a restaurant toilet and your son asks questions
about how you pie very loud so everybody else can hear. It is not really about
the kids, but the fact that everybody care a lot about what everybody else
thinks about you and your kids.

E.g. in Norway where I am from, it is perfectly normal to let kids run around
stark naked at the beach. It is seen as natural and nobody stares or makes a
fuss about it. I don't have a problem with that. However when visiting the US,
we don't let the kids run around naked at the beach. Not because we suddenly
changed our attitudes towards nudity, but because we don't want to stick out.
We don't want people to stare at us and think we are bad parents.

Ironically I read something related when visiting the DDR museum in Berlin.
Being nude at the beach started as a protest against the conformist communist
party. But eventually everybody in DDR became a nudist, because they didn't
want to stick out by wearing clothes, because the majority stopped doing it.

~~~
scotty79
I'm not sure but you could probably get arrested for letting your kid run
naked in US. If you took pictures of your naked children you'd be charged with
producing kiddie porn regardless of context (beach, parent, kids having fun).

One mother was charged for leaving her baby in the stroller outside of the
diner in the US despite the fact that in her european country it's totally fin
and everybody does it.

~~~
anonymous
Wait, so every picture of a naked child is automatically child porn? And you
can't let your children run around naked on the beach?

Man, you Americans are strange. _goes back to eating his soup of sheep's
stomach_

~~~
lotharbot
> _"every picture of a naked child is automatically child porn?"_

Legally speaking, no. If the courts were given a picture of your kid running
around naked on the beach, doing normal beach things, without any other reason
to believe this was "child porn", they'd drop the charges fast.

The main danger is that Child Protective Services has a fairly broad mandate.
If they're going to make a mistake, they'd rather be overprotective than
underprotective. So if you have a picture of a naked child, they're likely to
try to have your child removed from your home (temporarily) even if they know
the charges won't stick.

~~~
scotty79
> If the courts were given a picture of your kid running around naked on the
> beach, doing normal beach things, without any other reason to believe this
> was "child porn", they'd drop the charges fast.

I read that for some people charges were not drop fast enough to not ruin
their lives.

[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2290682/Walmart-
Lisa...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2290682/Walmart-Lisa-Anthony-
Demaree-lost-custody-children-month-employee-called-police-bath-time-
pictures.html)

> If they're going to make a mistake, they'd rather be overprotective than
> underprotective.

That's funny how they think that they are being protective by removing the
child from the house where it has spent its entire life because they think
that might save the kid few weeks of potential additional abuse.

------
ronilan
What Disney produces is content made for kids. What SkyDoesMinecraft produces
is content made for everyone that happens to be appropriate and relevant for
kids. The latter represents what the world is. The former is a fantasy.
Minecraft is awosome but the unique appeal here is of YouTube. It is, and has
been for years now, a one of a kind window to the world that is especially
appealing to kids. It can not be duplicated but it can go wasted. Don't be sad
though, you can always skip this ad in 5 seconds.

------
matthewsinclair
I can't speak highly enough of the transformative capabilities of Minecraft.
My 7yo has been struggling with reading because of working memory issues, even
though he has a verbal reasoning score that is off the charts (we had him
psych tested as part diagnosing why he was struggling with his reading).

Minecraft was about the best thing we found to motivate him to read. He wanted
to know how to do stuff, I told him "it's in the Wiki" and point-blank refused
to help him do it in the game. He struggled at first to even be able to type
stuff into the Wiki search box, but he persevered and his reading has improved
dramatically.

Every now and again (mostly at random) I will 'reward' him by jumping onto the
console and dropping in a couple of special items that he hasn't seen before,
and then watch him go off to the Wiki to try and work out what to do with it.

As I said, I just can't speak highly enough about it and I've told everyone
who will listen about how good it is. The simplest explanation I've come up
with to explain to grandparents and other interested parties about what he is
doing is this: "it's Lego for the mind".

------
arocks
Content produced by Disney and others are written with a stereotypical kid in
mind. Their brief must be something like this - "Our target audience needs a
bright colour palette with lots of bubble gum pink and syrupy greens. Should
have fast and loud sequences to keep them engaged. Goofy characters work. In
any case - Don't Make Them Think".

Trust me it is a relief to not see the young generation glued to such content
all day (which even they don't find engaging any more). If they find joy in
building and designing something themselves, then more power to that.

------
phaedryx
For kid-friendly minecraft videos I recommend Paul Soares Jr.:
<http://www.youtube.com/user/paulsoaresjr>

~~~
remixz
Another good one is kurtjmac: <http://www.youtube.com/user/kurtjmac> He also
raises money for charity by walking to an area of Minecraft where the terrain
generation glitches out, called the "Far Lands".

~~~
netcraft
As well as Etho's Lab. He keeps the language PG and has quite the following.
<http://www.youtube.com/user/EthosLab/videos>

------
spacecowboy
I have four children between the ages of 9 and 17 and they all play Minecraft.
One of the most interesting things about them playing it is that they'll play
together as a team building elaborate home structures. At one point, they
built an amusement park with roller coaster rides and everything. One of the
other games I have introduced them to is the game Fez. It allows them to
simply explore another colorful 2d/3d world as a single player.

------
Swizec
When you think about it, Minecraft is this generation's LEGO. Kudos to Notch!

~~~
jamie_ca
Yep. My 5yo still alternates between "Minecraft" and "the Lego game."

------
anthem001
Great article. My kids are exactly the same (5 and 8). I would rather have
them use their imaginations to play and build than watch TV violence or
stupidity.

I would recommend iHasCupquake for YouTube videos. She is engaging and funny
and is someone your daughter can find inpiration in as well
(youtube.com/user/iHasCupquake)

Oh, and iHasCupquake, if you for whatever reason read this my daughter thinks
your "hair is very pretty".

------
mowfask
One thing about this whole discussion really bugs me:

Everyone is just talking about how to keep the children occupied with
technology. I really think this is the wrong approach, there is so much more
to learn and explore than stupid pixels on a screen.

When we were young my parents had the attitude that it's very important to get
a "feel for the earth", in a very literal way. That's why we spend as much
time outside as possible. One of the few things I remember about primary
school: I was the only one who knew potatoes grow below ground. Where has this
world come, that our children know so little about even the most basic stuff??

~~~
DanBC
Children use huge amounts of time.

It might sound like parents are spending all this time dumping a child in
front of a screen but really this time is quite short compared to the rest of
the time that's available.

Gardening is another great activity. Start with cress, then herbs and
vegetables in window boxes.

~~~
mowfask
In my opinion "dumping a child in front of a screen" should really be the last
option; only used with a good excuse and balanced by extensive investment of
time. (It's of course easy for me to talk like that, but I see one of the
greatest responsibilities of live in raising your children properly. Which for
me includes spending a whole lot of time with them.)

------
JunkDNA
This is the massive change afoot that Hollywood needs to recognize. 20 years
ago they were fighting over which network you would watch or which film you
would go to see. But now the entire Movie/TV industry has to compete against
other forms of entertainment. While you can argue that this has always been
the case, computer-based entertainment is a lot more "TV-like" than going out
to a concert or seeing a play. I think this long term trend poses an
existential threat to the TV and movie business. They are going to need to
adapt to this new environment or risk irrelevance.

------
marshray
It got to the point that my kids were _begging_ me to cancel cable TV and use
the proceeds to buy an additional computer so they'd have less sharing
contention for the computer that did Youtube and Minecraft.

So I did.

------
bitwize
One of the things I've learned from meeting smart adults with kids is how
legitimate -- and prevalent -- are "no stupid bullshit" rules governing what
kids may watch. I've met more than one couple now that forbids Hannah Montana,
Bratz, and other associated nonsense, and their kids are probably better
functioning for it.

If instead of idiot TV they're messing around with Minecraft -- a screen-bound
Lego set with as close to infinite pieces as makes no difference -- so much
the better.

------
greatguns
OMG this is so true. Disney and Nick were so bad that we cancelled cable for
several years before eventually giving up when a good deal came along. :(
We've regretted it. We limit how much they watch, but it doesn't matter. It
isn't even attitude so much as just non-stop nonsense from both kids at the
dinner table because that is what they watch. The shows aren't funny to begin
with but imagine children trying to parrot the same behavior of the children
in the shows without having any idea how to fully pull it off. It is HORRIBLE.
Please make it stop. Our cable contract is coming up, but the fam is addicted
again to the other shows we didn't get on air or via netflix.

So screwed.

------
bagacrap
when I was growing up I was sort of forced, sort of coaxed into reading a lot
of books. So maybe I am biased, but it seems like reading books is the most
educational experience a young mind can have. I also built a lot of legos,
which is kind of like a real world analog to Minecraft (correct me if I'm
wrong on that), and that helped develop my spatial reasoning I suppose. But it
seems like literature has an almost endless potential to educate and expand
your mind, whereas at a certain point minecraft/legos/etc will reach a state
of greatly diminished returns. So why is the only other option for this
woman's child a TV?

------
stevewilhelm
I tried a couple of times to get my daughter interested in Sim City, Second
Life, Minecraft, etc.

Every time, she decided if she was going to go to all the trouble of building
something, it should be a real thing.

She has since gotten very active in team sports.

------
rainbw
I love Minecraft. It's one of the priceless games on the web that doesn't try
to convince you into buying things with your won money- Passes, Rubies,
Tokens, whatever you call them, they worth about as much as real money after
it's accidentally dropped into a volcano.

Minecraft also lets you create your own story, over and over again. You can
create custom maps, wire up amazing redstone systems, and simply give the
player a challenge to overcome. One of the most popular maps, Skyblock, is
just a few floating blocks in space, which gives the player a challenge to
face.

Minecraft is one of my favorite games, and will always be.

By the way, it's budder. XD

------
Balgair
<http://www.reddit.com/r/mindcrack/>

Since a lot of young parents are on this thread, I'll risk the reddit link and
plug for the MindCrack community. Many up loaders there are curse banning and
very kid friendly. EthosLab is by a Canadian coder/garden supplier and is
logic gate heavy. KurtJMac is a Chicagoian graphic designer that is walking to
the floating point error in the games world algorithm generation for charity
having raised 70k for cancer patients and talks about astronomy and NASA. Both
are very good.

------
jiggy2011
Minecraft on a tablet? How does that work?

~~~
ihuman
It is a watered-down version, with touch-based controls.

------
xarien
Preface: My son is 3 years old.

I let my kid choose his own entertainment. He'll more often than not either
request the tablet or violent Donald Duck cartoons from the 50s (both of which
we cap the duration to ~15 min). I believe that while curiosity is something
to foster, we shouldn't force it upon our kids without providing them with
alternative choices. Helping him develop an ability to discern pros and cons
when making decisions along with negotiation skills will help round him out
much more than trying to force him into a purely producer role.

------
raldi
Remember when the iPad came out and was widely decried for being suitable only
for passive, non-creative consumption of content?

~~~
Grue3
Playing games is still passive, non-creative consumption of content.

~~~
Karunamon
Have a look at some of the things built on Minecraft (we're talking all the
way up to fully functional CPUs, here) and then tell me that it's both passive
and non-creative.

------
cinquemb
_"Bad language is easy to curb, but stupid adult stereotypes, sarcasm,
backstabbing behavior, and contempt are not."_

Old way of conditioning, meet the new way of conditioning where the
complexities in the way people live their life reflected in media are still
circumvented and avoided in order to provide temporary peace of mind and
entertainment.

Edit: I probably shouldn't share these types of thoughts on HN, but do anyways
seeing what others care to explain about possible underlying dynamics going on
here that aren't being said. Sorry if I am offending the HN groupthink.

~~~
conroe64
I don't understand what you are saying? Playing minecraft or watching
amateurs' videos of themselves playing is _conditioning_? By who, and how?

~~~
cinquemb
Bear with me.

The conditioning in this is media is shaping the minds of individuals
(intentionally or not), who will most likely not be aware of this going on
during consumption. The old way being television or in relation to this
posting, Disney and "…stupid adult stereotypes, sarcasm, backstabbing
behavior, and contempt…". The new way being "interactive" media, or in
relation to this posting, Minecraft and related content consumed where "Bad
language is easy to curb…".

The "stupid adult stereotypes, sarcasm, backstabbing behavior, and contempt"
is hardly unique Disney or other child TV consumption (or TV for that
matter…). One thing people point out with television consumption people have
stated time and time again, is that it hardly invites it's viewers to explore
ideas outside of the content while viewing. Then it seems like some how, the
ability to be able to interact with media with content like Minecraft is some
how better (allows children to be more creative, enabling more thinking, or
whatever people say the benefits are compared to what people think of
television now [though I bet some people were touting the benefits of
television not to long ago…]), which I can see/understand the argument being
made here for that with the logic being made on surface level.

However, the thing is that it isn't like what the children are doing is
outside of the purpose of the game and are very much only able to do things
within the constructs the game. At the end of the day, it is still a game. And
like Disney shows or the like, it still does not invite the player to explore
ideas and concepts that are going within the game at the same time. So to me,
it seems like overall the child is no better off with being able to digest
things like "Bad language…" and notions of "…stupid adult stereotypes,
sarcasm, backstabbing behavior, and contempt"(hardly unique to our times since
it is apart of human nature after all) that could be going on in the game or
other consumable content related.

It seems to me it would be foolish to think that this "new interactive media"
does any more or less compared to the "old way" (TV, or the tech before that
like radio and even books) when it comes to addressing the underlying issues
being avoided. And apparently, even trying to have a discussion upon such
seems to be avoided…

~~~
conroe64
The thing is that a lot of what people do in minecraft is not towards a single
goal or accomplishment that is pre laid out by the minecraft developer(s). If
you haven't played it before, it's a vast 3D world of detachable bricks that
are created using a procedural algorithm. There are other entities in the
world the user can fight against. But, the dominant part of the game is
crafting your own creations using the 3D bricks not necessarily for any
purpose at all besides one that you come up with. It's a lot like Legos in
that respect. One user built a life size model of the Star Ship Enterprise
(for no in-game reward at all) [http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/09/28/somebody-
built-the-starshi...](http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/09/28/somebody-built-the-
starship-enterprise-in-minecraft/)

So because of that, minecraft _does_ do more than watching TV, or most other
goal oriented video games. If it doesn't, you'll have to elaborate on what you
mean by "the underlying issues being avoided".

~~~
cinquemb
> _you'll have to elaborate on what you mean by "the underlying issues being
> avoided"._

Third paragraph: > _However, the thing is that it isn't like what the children
are doing is outside of the purpose of the game and are very much only able to
do things within the constructs the game. At the end of the day, it is still a
game. And like Disney shows or the like, it still does not invite the player
to explore ideas and concepts that are going within the game at the same time.
So to me, it seems like overall the child is no better off with being able to
digest things like "Bad language…" and notions of "…stupid adult stereotypes,
sarcasm, backstabbing behavior, and contempt"(hardly unique to our times since
it is apart of human nature after all) that could be going on in the game or
other consumable content related._

~~~
conroe64
What do you mean by "does not invite the player to explore ideas and concepts
that are going within the game at the same time"? And why is this so important
to a child's development that without it, "overall the child is no better
off"?

~~~
cinquemb
Does the game invite the child or player to think about their motivations when
constructing things? Does the game make them think about their emotions and
what is going on in the head of other players when they are razing other
players creations and how that affects gameplay? Does the game help them
abstract the experiences when playing the game, show them how it relates, and
ultimately help give them a better understanding to the world they live in?

I would say no to all of these, just like would say about TV. And it isn't
that is important or not, it is just that it offers no fundamental difference
from the media that has come before when it comes to development of the mind.

~~~
conroe64
In minecraft, you can chat with other people within the world. So there is
communication. If you raze someones creation (which may or may not be possible
depending on the access you've been given), someone else may react to that and
tell you to stop. In extreme cases, you may be booted or banned from the
server. Likewise, if you help other people in the game, they will likely
praise you and be willing to help you on your own creations.

In real life, if you destroy or hurt someone else as a child, you are told
that was bad and why. In extreme cases, you may be put on a time out, or
forcefully removed from the situation. If you help other people, you make
friends who will be more willing to help you.

So what is the fundamental differentiating factor, as far as emotional
development goes, between minecraft and real life? Both have comparable
consequences to a person's actions as it regards other people's feelings.

------
corresation
My 10 year old daughter and 8 year old son are both deep in love with
Minecraft, so I most certainly agree with that part. I also have the same
disdain for Disney XD, with the same complaints as the linked -- they have
truly terrible writing, and are just horrible social models.

I have to add a caveat about the Minecraft videos, however, in that many of
them are just as bad or worse than tween shows. While some are just
walkthroughs, a growing number are obnoxious cliche fests (e.g. screaming and
yelling expletives when a creeper appears, etc). There is a large set of
people trying to capitalize on kids watching minecraft videos.

~~~
nextw33k
I think the awesome benefit of youtube is that you can leave direct feedback.
Give it a thumbs down plus explain why.

Teach your kids to do that and eventually things will improve. Just don't
expect that of Disney.

~~~
DanBC
Yogscast (quite sweary British minecraft youtubes) have 4,806,098 subscribers
and 1,931,000,000 video views.

This video [1] has 1,076,520 views, 49,507 up-thumbs and 808 down-thumbs, with
over 7,000 comments. It's been up for about 24 hours at this point.

I fully support down-voting and commenting, but I'm not sure it's going to
have any effect.

Luckily, there are plenty of other videos where decent attitudes are on show.

[1] ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_idfJmWRj3s&list=UUH-
_hzb...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_idfJmWRj3s&list=UUH-
_hzb2ILSCo9ftVSnrCIQ&index=3))

------
fckyrpywll
"Please sign in to continue"

No.

~~~
prezjordan
You do not have to sign in to read articles.

------
DannoHung
Lame. She still doesn't really give a shit what her kids are doing so long as
she doesn't get back talk.

Fuck you lady.

~~~
anthem001
Obviously not a parent, either that or you're miraculously able to entertain
your kid(s) 24/7.

~~~
mratzloff
It's perfectly OK and healthy for kids to be bored.

