
Living a Lie: We Deceive Ourselves to Better Deceive Others - brahmwg
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/living-a-lie-we-deceive-ourselves-to-better-deceive-others/
======
jbscpa
Bernard L. Madoff

From Wikipeda

"In his plea allocution, Madoff stated he began his Ponzi scheme in 1991. He
admitted he had never made any legitimate investments with his clients' money
during this time. Instead, he said, he simply deposited the money into his
personal business account at Chase Manhattan Bank. When his customers asked
for withdrawals, he paid them out of the Chase account — a classic "robbing
Peter to pay Paul" scenario. Chase and its successor, JPMorgan Chase, may have
earned as much as $483 million from his bank account.[107][108] He was
committed to satisfying his clients' expectations of high returns, despite an
economic recession. He admitted to false trading activities masked by foreign
transfers and false SEC filings. He stated that he always intended to resume
legitimate trading activity, but it proved "difficult, and ultimately
impossible" to reconcile his client accounts. In the end, Madoff said, he
realized that his scam would eventually be exposed.[75][109]

let me emphasize from above:

"He stated that he always intended to resume legitimate trading activity, but
it proved "difficult, and ultimately impossible" to reconcile his client
accounts"

~~~
bch
This is excellent. Describes moral bankruptcy as well. Maybe perhaps not
entirely malicious, but ultimately wrong and unmaintainable.

------
apapli
From the wisdom of George in Seinfeld, when Jerry is seeking advice before
sitting a lie detector test: "Jerry, just remember, it’s not a lie if you
believe it."

~~~
aluminussoma
Also, the saying, "Fake it 'til you make it".

The study looked at perceived athleticism. I wonder if the same could be said
about entrepreneurship?

------
thedevil
I always knew that lying to oneself is a good planned strategy for lying.

But never thought that our natural tendency to deceive ourselves might have
the ultimate purpose of helping us deceive others.

This is why I love hacker news. I get a different perspective every day that
(whether it's right or wrong) forces me to re-consider my mental models of the
world.

~~~
kartan
> This is why I love hacker news. I get a different perspective every day that
> (whether it's right or wrong) forces me to re-consider my mental models of
> the world.

I almost believed you there. Don't lie to yourself, we like Hacker News for
its entertainment value. :P

~~~
Mz
I'm just here for the pictures.

~~~
Namrog84
There are pictures? I think I've been using this wrong

~~~
Mz
Maybe you should check your settings. ;)

------
HillaryBriss
There was an NPR story about how our current president listened to a lot
"Power of Positive Thinking" lectures/sermons early in his life. He really
embraced those ideas.

Seems he's almost always trying to convince the world that a certain narrative
about himself, the voters, and reality in general is true.

But this research adds an interesting wrinkle to that story. By making so many
questionable statements publicly, maybe he's really just trying to convince
_himself._

And that's why, when outsiders try to tell him that his "facts" are not facts
at all, it doesn't matter to him. He just repeats his original statement even
louder. His public statements _aren 't for the rest of us._ We're just the
audience that adds some emotional intensity for him and the process in his own
brain.

~~~
dhimes
I also find anecdotally that people like that only surround themselves with
people who repeat (or at least don't challenge) the lie. If you throw in some
reality that is at odds with their belief then you don't get a seat at the
table any more.

~~~
NumberCruncher
Have you ever read discussions on HN about climate change?

~~~
1_2__3
That's a tacky and pointless comment.

~~~
NumberCruncher
I just tried to use a non-anecdotally counterexample.

~~~
dhimes
I have absolutely no clue what you mean by it.

------
jannotti
This seems like a junk experiment. They asked people to perform a task that
would be easier if you had some information. Then they started showing them
videos. The subjects stopped watching when they had enough inspiration for
their story. That's it.

It's as if the authors of the study think the subjects have ESP and know that
evidence contrary to their goal is coming up, and therefore decide to stop
watching.

------
arca_vorago
Welcome to intelligence 101, if you don't believe it, you won't be able to
convincingly lie to others as well. There is a reason intel bubbas have
amazing cross training with acting, particularly Method.

------
josephpmay
I lie to myself that I don't lie to myself

------
awarer
"whether you think you can, or you think you can't - you're right.” ― Henry
Ford

------
losteverything
The one I can totally understand is

Contending that his statement that "there's nothing going on between us" had
been truthful because he had no ongoing relationship with Lewinsky at the time
he was questioned, Clinton said, "It depends upon what the meaning of the word
'is' is."

Words matter in a useless way for my math mind.

Especially the words "maybe" or "might have" \- both are correct in almost any
instance, question or situation.

So clinton's "is" is his way to lie but not lie. Maybe.

------
mrcactu5
Telling the truth can be costly. Overwhelmingly we massage the facts to get
the point across without causing too much damage. Textbook simplify a
complicated facts for students, that is not lying. Commercials aren't lying
because they aren't saying anything with a basis in fact.

While the majority of statements are neither true nor false, maybe we can
quantify if a statement is closer to one or the other.

------
eli_gottlieb
Well, this sure explains why I suck so hard at lying.

------
lkrubner
Slightly off-topic, but it is worth noting how unusual Robert Trivers acted in
this case. Can anyone think of another interesting hypothesis that was put
forward in the Foreword of someone else's book? In his own introduction,
Dawkins remarks on how unusual this is, and his tone can be read as amusement,
but also perhaps a little bit of annoyance.

------
mirimir
This is method acting. We all do it. It's the major self-help strategy. And
it's very useful in developing personas for compartmentalization.

------
lngnmn
Sure. How else one could get married?

~~~
rustynails
As someone who is married, I truly do not understand your comment. The exact
opposite seems true to me. Honesty and integrity are paramount (at least to
me). Find somebody you respect. Find somebody who is compatible with you. Hope
you find someone who thinks and feels the same as you do. If I struggled on my
journey, it was to find a woman who did not want to dominate me or be
dominated who was worthy of my respect. I consider myself very lucky. Been
married for a long time to an amazing women who is an engineer in heart and
soul. So, nothing about self doubt, deceit for me.

~~~
ardit33
Congrats you hit the jackpot. Many people are not so lucky, well at least half
or more* (depending on the percentage of marriages are actually happy).

~~~
cm2012
If you are college educated divorce rates plummets. Same for marrying later in
life. +the 50% stat is quite weighted by people with multiple divorces. The
average HN reader probably has an 80% shot at lifelong marriage.

