

If Craigslist cost $1 - bdfh42
http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2009/09/if-craigslist-cost-1.html

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jgrahamc
_The number of scam artists using the site would go down, because it's more
difficult to be anonymous when money changes hands._

Only slightly more difficult. The reality is that stolen credit card numbers
are easily available to anyone who really wants to find and buy them (in bulk)
and so using "ability to pay money" as a criteria for detecting non-scammers
is weak. That's precisely because what scammers are good at is illegal acts,
like getting stolen credit card numbers.

~~~
Edinburger
I think the point is it would become much less worthwhile to spam the site, at
least with 'simple' spam. Stolen credit card numbers are easily available but
using them just to spam Craigslist is probably a poor return on investment.
Ironically, more complex scams could become more worthwhile if users start to
show a higher level of trust in ads because they've been paid for.

~~~
jgrahamc
You are probably right that increased trust because of payments could make the
scams work better, but bear in mind that a typical stolen credit card can be
bought for a few cents. They are almost free.

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leftnode
From what I've read around the Internet, Craigslist is perfectly happy being
one of the worlds largest websites run by 32 people. I don't think they want
to grow to a huge marketplace, or want to make billions. They sound like a
company that's perfectly happy with their place on the 'Net and thats that.

From their Wikipedia article, "Other factors he [Craig Newmark] cites are
consistency of down-to-earth values, customer service and simplicity."

To me, those go away if they start charging for posts.

~~~
stcredzero
_"Other factors he [Craig Newmark] cites are consistency of down-to-earth
values, customer service and simplicity." To me, those go away if they start
charging for posts._

I'd like you to explain that one. Lots of companies charge money and have
exactly those qualities.

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nir
What if publishing a blog post cost $1? Would people spend more time thinking
them through?

~~~
vaksel
$1 for each Google search..it'll make them billions!

~~~
bigbang
everyday...

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calambrac
Gosh, all that sounds amazing. Let me blow your minds, though: what if CL cost
_two_ dollars?

This is unbelievably weak. Godin's not exactly on a hot streak right now, is
he?

~~~
jbellis
> Let me blow your minds, though: what if CL cost two dollars?

It's well understood that the psychological difference between free and $1 is
much larger than the difference between $1 and $2.

~~~
calambrac
So you're saying your mind isn't blown? Hmm, might have to start shaving my
head...

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buugs
If Craigslist charged $1 dollar I would have a really good Idea for an ad
based website.

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patio11
craigslistrefugees.com : For when your listing isn't worth a buck!

Advertisers: Please contact us to be put in touch with our userbase of people
who take the castaway things of people who are such tightwads they wouldn't
pay $1 to list. They combined the technical savvy of eBay users, the
purchasing power of MySpace users, and the commercial tolerance of Slashdot
users! Your CPM campaigns have never seen anything like it!

~~~
buugs
Craigslistrefugees.com: Because you don't have to pay a buck!

~~~
potatolicious
I rather like:

Craigslistrefugees.com: Because you don't have to give a buck!

~~~
pbz
No one gives a buck!

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webology
eBay is a great example of how charging money does not curve bogus, repetitive
listings or fraud for that matter. A reputation system might go a long way and
make people more accountable.

~~~
tghw
eBay is a great example of how a reputation system does not curb bogus,
repetitive listings, or fraud for that matter.

~~~
randallsquared
Well, of how _their_ reputation system... There's a lot of room for
experimentation.

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showkiller
It seems of late everyone is trying to improve on something that is obviously
working. ie. Craigslist

Love it or hate it, it's working for them.

Why not examine why it is working so well and take some lessons, and build
better products?

~~~
henning
If you have nothing to say, say it anyway.

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TravisLS
No objection to the usability assertions, but there's a huge problem with this
idea that Craigslist will now always control the classifieds market no matter
what they charge. This meme has caught on recently and it's time for it to
die. It's not Craigslist's responsibility to provide journalism or to use
their large size to extract profit and solve the world's problems.

If Craigslist charged $1, users would immediately flee to any new competing
sites that only charged for job and real estate listings, just like Craigslist
does now. Then Seth Godin and Joel Spolsky could complain about those sites'
margins instead, and those sites could take those complaints all the way to
the bank.

~~~
jerf
Yeah... the fundamental cost of classified ads isn't zero, but is so close to
it that anybody who tries to charge $1 will have trouble with the ones who do
it for free. That's the way to think about it, really. Running classified ads
for even a medium-sized city is something that quite a lot of us could toss
together in a weekend, and with the correct choice of framework, we could get
it to scale fairly well in another couple of weekends. There's not much
challenge.

And per some conversations from a few months ago about how hard it is to
replicate a full site like Stack Overflow, replicating Craigslist from a
features point of view really does seem to be pretty easy. What you can't
replicate overnight is the _ubiquity_ of Craigslist; the fact that they cover
the country, and that everyone, even very non-technical friends of mine, know
what it is. Both of these could be overcome if Craigslist started charging too
much. (Though if they stay the course I'm not sure how they could be defeated
in any reasonable period of time.)

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makmanalp
>the fact that they cover the country, and that everyone, even very non-
technical friends of mine, know what it is

That's why after you build the free version, you name it something similar,
eg: freelist or joeslist. Now people get the gist of what it is just from the
name, you can't be sued for copyright and you're a valid competitor.

Craigslist is undoubtedly a useful service but it's trivial to implement and
the only reason to use craigslist over some competitor is because everyone
_else_ uses craigslist. If you place a barrier to entry, you lose customers
unwilling to pay. If you lose customers, you lose other customers.

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DanielStraight
He's completely ignoring the fact that some people (a lot of people actually)
won't pay any price. Changing the price from free to $1 would probably have
more effect than a site changing its price from $1 to $10.

~~~
d4nt
Isn't that exactly the point he's making

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zaidf
He's saying making it a buck will make CL a lot of money.

OP is saying that may not happen. People might move to another classifieds
website in mass. CL might end up making a lot less money because less traffic
= less price for paid sections of their site(ie. job sections in certain
cities).

~~~
d4nt
I think seth is saying a lot less ads will be placed, which will make the site
nicer to use.

Combine that added usability with the critical mass it already has and CL stay
dominant and will make more money than it does currently.

~~~
yesimahuman
I think he's wrong about it though. Honestly, craigslist hasn't failed me
much. I rarely get spam or ads. When I need to sell something, it has always
worked out. Part of the wonder of craigslist is that everyone has access to
it. If they charged to post, some people wouldn't pay, and the community would
suffer

~~~
zaidf
Yeah I saw his post more as a HUGE hypothetical fantasy.

The premise of it is based on making money. While that is usually the end
pursued by most commercial ventures, Craig Newmark has made it abundantly
clear that optimizing money is never the goal at Craigslist.

~~~
stcredzero
_The premise of it is based on making money_

That's not what I read it as. I think the key paragraph is:

 _Money creates a sort of friction. In the digital economy, magical things can
happen when there is no friction. You can scale to infinity. On the other
hand, sometimes you want friction._

Especially the last line. By charging a small amount, you remove the ability
to scale to infinity. I would charge far less than a dollar per ad, though.

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Tichy
Or maybe it would become just like ebay.

~~~
jbellis
Hugely successful to the point that they can buy Skype for $billions just for
the hell of it?

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whye
I don't think that's Craig Newark's metric for success.

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jcw
_The revenue of the site would soar, which means that the people running the
site could ... change the economy of an emerging nation._

I find that whenever I say things like this, people either look at me funny or
laugh. I wish more people shared this kind of naive optimism.

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nazgulnarsil
this reminds me of the "if email cost a penny" arguments. I think i agree, but
I haven't thought about it enough to see the likely ramifications.

~~~
dualogy
The only thing that would likely happen in both cases, craigslist and email,
is people would set up free alternatives instantly. Everything needed for that
is out there for free already, ready to run.

~~~
d4nt
I agree the free alternatives would be set up, but in the case of Craigslist I
think it probably has enough critical mass to keep its dominant position.

A free email provider would still let you send and receive messages from
anyone. A free classified listings site doesn't give you access to traffic on
the paid classified listings site.

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efsavage
He's really using money as a proxy for identity/reputation/culpability. If you
have something at stake, you are less likely to act like a jackass.
Craigslist's propensity for scamming (and positive frictionless interaction)
is because of its anonymity more than its cost.

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CatBaby
I wonder how much those spammers make per bogus listing. If it's more than
what legit advertisers make per listing then charging per listing will only
drive out the good guys or, at best, do nothing. If it's not, charge somewhere
in the middle and, voila, problem solved.

I guess the reality is, you can only have a spamerless site when all your
users are more lucrative than spammers.

Anyway, even if it _would_ result in higher profits, CL would not be
interested. Because they're not interested in driving up their profits.

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toto
Bad idea.

As a classified ad owner (2nd largest in my country), doing so would only give
a chance to a newcomer.

The problem is to charge for the first penny...
<http://redeye.firstround.com/2007/03/the_first_penny.html>

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misuba
Craigslist does need to start charging for personals. $1 would be pretty
appropriate - enough to make spam unprofitable, but not enough to drive legit
users to a better deal (at least I'm not aware of any).

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orblivion
Well, sometimes friction is good, sometimes friction is bad. So let some sites
have friction, and let Craigslist be Craigsilst.

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ajaimk
In response: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=850380>

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Gilson_Silveira
Well, I don't think it is a bad idea.

I'm implementing a similar idea. But the adv will cost $5,00.

