
Elon Musk quits Zuckerberg's immigration advocacy group - RougeFemme
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/10/net-us-usa-immigration-technology-idUSBRE94910K20130510
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twoodfin
Can someone explain to me why expansion of visa programs for skilled workers
is so controversial? Hell, Mitt Romney wanted to "staple a green card" to
every STEM diploma.

Why the need for these three dimensional Vulcan chess tactics if that's the
goal?

My guess is because labor unions and the Democrats (generally) don't want to
expand visas for skilled workers without "comprehensive" legalization. But I
am definitely biased so I would not at all mind an alternative explanation.

~~~
auctiontheory
Expanding visa programs will be controversial so long as large numbers of
Americans are unemployed.

This particular group is controversial (also) because they are taking a
position on controversial non-immigration issues, such as oil drilling and
pipelines.

"Controversial" doesn't mean it's right or wrong. It means that many people
have strong arguments and emotions both for and against.

~~~
wahsd
That's because "immigration" in this country is actually veiled dilution of
the worker pool, externalizing costs, lazy, inflation of limited resources and
thereby self-perpetuating wealth creation, deflates source country pressures
for improvement, and drains talent from other places.

It is a pernicious practice all around and only advantages the wealthy of the
destination country, i.e., USA. It's destructive, poisoning, and exploitative
all around for everyone else.

~~~
ajju
I am an immigrant, and coming here was constructive, sustaining and a very
positive thing for me. I got a graduate degree here, and then started a
startup that employs several people, enables our users to to access
transportation much more easily (and in some cases safely) millions of times
every year. I don't see how me coming to the United States has been a net loss
for anyone.

I know (personally) at least 100 other people like me.

~~~
twelvechairs
Not to speak on behalf of GP, but I think the issue is not you as a successful
permanent immigrant, but the way the system holds other potential immigrants
out and permits some only on short-term visas who then get dumped back to
their places of origin.

~~~
ajju
_"immigration" in this country....[is] destructive, poisoning, and
exploitative all around for everyone else._

GP didn't single out immigrants who come here on short-term visas, but even if
he had, I came here on a short term visa, and so did every single one of the
100 people I referred to. It is true that many had to go back to their places
of origin. In some cases they suffered because of it, although I'd argue their
place of origin benefited. In some cases they started startups after
returning, and both they and their place of origin benefited.

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dmschulman
From my understanding, part of the controversy stems from FWD.us stating in
general terms that they are lobbying for "immigration reform", but in
actuality, they are lobbying for a very specific type of immigration reform,
one that would only benefit tech companies looking for highly skilled and
foreign (cheaper) labor.

FWD.us isn't advocating to solve the larger immigration issues the US already
faces (a clear and present issue that needs resolution), but is merely taking
advantage of a political situation to further their own interests.

~~~
adamnemecek
>> foreign (cheaper) labor.

[citation needed]

~~~
wtallis
Why bother with the trouble of hiring foreign labor unless it's cheaper?

~~~
jacoblyles
I'm sure they aren't paying the minimum H1-B salary at places like Google or
Facebook anyway. It would be odd for some employees to be making $84k and
others to be making $120k.

~~~
kooshball
This is not odd at all in work places. Salary has a huge correlation with the
demand when you joined and how hard you negotiate. There's a reason employers
try their best to keep salaries a secret.

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blinkingled
Interesting to note that Musk himself is an immigrant (born in SA). The
Reuters article speculates that he quit over an unrelated matter - the FWD.us
group sponsored ads for senators who supported drilling oil pipelines in
Alaska which apparently did not sit well with Musk.

~~~
rst
The pipeline that FWD.us has been touting would actually be in the "lower 48"
--- it's the proposed Keystone XL pipeline, which would be intended to
transport a particularly dirty form of petrochemicals ("diluted bitumen",
which is something like sand soaked in crude oil) across sensitive land (some
proposed routes have it going over the Oglalla aquifer, which is a major
reservoir for American agriculture).

~~~
twoodfin
Wait, is the objection about the safety of the pipeline (Why is it less safe
than any of a dozen other pipelines?) or the facilitation of carbon emissions
from burning the contents of the pipeline?

Forgive me for being blunt, but most pipeline opponents seem to emphasize the
former when what they really object to is the latter.

~~~
blinkingled
Given how much damage the pipeline leaks can and have caused to the
environment, I think the objections ought to be for both.

~~~
twoodfin
So are you just as interested in shutting down (all?) existing pipelines? If
not, what's the distinction?

~~~
eightyone
They never suggested that. A simple cost-benefit analysis shows us that this
pipeline simply isn't worth it.

~~~
twoodfin
So simple it can't be linked to?

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lost-theory
The ads:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3Iih8K0U27k)

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YHuJkHge-
sw)

------
zafka
I like Elon Musk more every day. Someone who makes cool products that look to
improve the quality of life for everyone, while still making some decent money
from it. It would have been sad if he had not bailed when the group started
pushing an agenda that was counter to his ideals.

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fiatmoney
Fun fact: all H1B salary data is public. It's parsed and made searchable here
and several other places:

<http://www.h1bwage.com/>

And if you dig a bit you can get the raw data:

<http://www.flcdatacenter.com/>

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bconway
The group supported a number of senators' stances on immigration reform, some
of whom also happened to support expanding pipelines for gas production. Elon
Musk, CEO of an electric car company, decides to leave the group. Not much
dot-connecting required here.

