
Renault Shares Drop on Apparent Fraud Probe into Emissions - jacquesm
http://bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-14/renault-shares-drop-on-report-of-fraud-probe-into-emission-tests
======
buserror
Or perhaps they are probing the fact I had to change my window regulators
EIGHT TIMES on my previous car (Scenic), while the vigorously defended that 1)
it was not a design fault and 2) refused to make the repair at their own
costs.

And despite hundred of pages of online forum discussion about this particular
problem.

And, mind you, it's not just them, I think the auto-industry needs to be
kicked, hard, and repeatedly until they start behaving with a notch more
honesty.

~~~
xlayn
It's not particular to the car industry, you can see it everywhere, from 3M
making every American and possibly every living thing more propense to cancer
[0] to Unilever dropping tons of mercury on the forests of India[1] to IBM
taking every position they can to India because it's cheaper[2].

The reason is: if this reflects on "making more money" they will do it and
fight to make it look right until they are challenge on court, as a result
probably the fines will be lower than the earnings related to how they did it.

Edit: there is nothing wrong with moving positions to a another country.

[0][http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-
dyn/content/article/2006/01...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-
dyn/content/article/2006/01/25/AR2006012502041.html)

[0][http://www.aboutlawsuits.com/link-dupont-teflon-
cancer-26060...](http://www.aboutlawsuits.com/link-dupont-teflon-
cancer-26060/)

[0][http://www.delawareriverkeeper.org/resources/Factsheets/A_DU...](http://www.delawareriverkeeper.org/resources/Factsheets/A_DUPONT_LEGACY_PFOA_Pollution.pdf)

[1][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodaikanal_mercury_poisoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodaikanal_mercury_poisoning)

[2][http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123799610031239341](http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123799610031239341)

~~~
josu
>The reason is: if this reflects on "making more money" they will do it and
fight to make it look right until they are challenge on court, as a result
probably the fines will be lower than the earnings related to how they did it.

The reason behind this reason is that as long as consumers keep demanding
cheaper products, companies will continue looking for ways to lower their
costs. Just take a look at poultry farms, they are living hells, but people
don't seem to mind it as long as they can buy 6 chicken nuggets for 99 cents.

We can't have the cake and eat it too, we have to decide whether we want
companies to be responsible or if we want to pay less for the products and
services we consume.

~~~
r00fus
> The reason behind this reason is that as long as consumers keep demanding
> cheaper products, companies will continue looking for ways to lower their
> costs.

I'd have no problem with actually competing price vs. quality but the problem
is with legislative/judicial challenges to things like environmental laws and
consumer protection.

We simply don't punish enough those who willingly shit on the commons to make
a buck (and consumers are often in the dark about the quality of their goods),
and so those who have large investments in these vehicles use some that money
to influence/corrupt the regulatory and legislative bodies to prevent their
cash flow from being stopped.

Just wait till TPP is signed and ratified...

------
AndyMcConachie
This is the most informative link I've seen so far in VW emissions cheating
scandal.

[http://lwn.net/Articles/670488/](http://lwn.net/Articles/670488/)

------
akerro
>"This was a couple of software engineers who put this in for whatever
reason," Michael Horn, VW's U.S. chief executive, told a House subcommittee
hearing. "To my understanding, this was not a corporate decision. This was
something individuals did."

[http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-vw-
hearing-20...](http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-vw-
hearing-20151009-story.html)

~~~
kuschku
While VW DE said "no engineer will be sued over this, we will give them total
immunity and want them to speak free", and subsequently suspended 10 of their
top managers, and had 2 CEOs resign in a row.

It’s clear that VW US’ CEO has only his own interests in mind.

~~~
on_and_off
do you have a source on that please ? I can only find the ridiculous 'one
rogue guy did this' version.

~~~
kuschku
Look at this [1] and this [2].

[1] [http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/13/business/volkswagen-
offeri...](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/13/business/volkswagen-offering-
amnesty-asks-workers-to-come-forward-on-emissions-cheating.html)

[2] [http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/21/business/volkswagen-
suspen...](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/21/business/volkswagen-suspends-5th-
executive-in-emissions-scandal.html)

Sadly, it’s almost completely unreported in English media, somehow it appears
that only German media has properly reported on it.

~~~
on_and_off
thanks. Very weird to see this discrepancy in the media.

~~~
kuschku
I’ve been noticing that in the past year, more and more discrepancy between
the news in different countries.

------
jeromeflipo
Renault's stock price (RNO) drops by 16%. Peugeot (UG) also drops by 6.5%.
Fiat (FCAU) loses 7.7% in premarket.

AFAIK, Peugeot hasn't been raided (yet). Here's some context about the
companies' exposure to the diesel scandal:
[http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-25/peugeot-
re...](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-25/peugeot-renault-set-
to-be-hit-by-fallout-from-vw-s-diesel-dupe)

~~~
riffraff
Seems like FIAT's situation might be unrelated, i.e. they are apparently being
sued in the US for unrelated stuff[0] i.e. forcing dealers to report higher
sales data than real (though the thing seems somewhat odd).

[0] [http://www.wsj.com/articles/fiat-shares-suspended-several-
ti...](http://www.wsj.com/articles/fiat-shares-suspended-several-times-in-
milan-after-heavy-losses-1452775574)

~~~
LoSboccacc
In the rumor over rumor game, I think fca stock drop was more related to gm
refusing a merger

------
mtgx
California also recently rejected VW's "fix" for their cheating engines:

[http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/221104-california-
rejects...](http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/221104-california-rejects-vws-
proposed-2-0l-diesel-engine-fix-epa-agrees)

------
nolok
> investigations so far has found "no evidence of a defeat device equipping
> Renault vehicles".

------
blablablame
European here and on the look for a new car. Which exact brands haven't been
affected?

Hard to find actual info, there are a lot of probes to various companies, but
which ones have been verified?

~~~
jeroen
For now, only VW AG (so VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda and Porsche). BMW, Mercedes,
Renault, Opel and PSA (Peugeot, Citroen) have been mentioned, but I haven't
seen any confirmations.

~~~
_pmf_
Ford also uses PSA motors (for example the 1.6 L Diesel Duratorq engine [0]).

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Duratorq_engine#1.6_.22Ti...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Duratorq_engine#1.6_.22Tiger.22)

~~~
jeroen
And Mercedes uses Renault engines in some models. I have no idea which party
will be responsible in those cases.

------
temp
It has rebounded significantly after the announcement that "no evidence was
found" of a cheating device.

------
bitmapbrother
Like others have said - Volkswagen was just the tip of the iceberg. All of the
major car companies knew what Volkswagen was doing and they did it too just to
keep up. Now that Volkswagen has fallen they're now snitching about other car
companies in an effort to reduce their exposure by spreading the blame and
implicating others.

------
fnordfnordfnord
Other auto emissions related shoes beginning to drop? I'm surprised it took
this long.

