

Is This Really Entrepreneurship? - BenSS
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=35996

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p_monk
This concept has already been very popular in Europe for many years.
<http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/13/world/europe/13paris.html>

What you lack is an understanding of the most common use case. I want to ride
a bike 3 miles away from my home, but I don't want to worry about finding a
place to lock my bike, take the risk of having it stolen, and I don't want to
have to retrieve my bike before going home. I've been waiting for this system
to migrate to LA since I saw how well it worked in barcelona 4 years ago. I
think it's a great concept, and furthermore it would be impossible to
implement without government approval because all the docking stations are on
sidewalks.

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swampthing
Under this theory, why do we have any government at all? One might argue that
the main purpose of government is to provide an aggregate benefit to society
that would otherwise not occur due to coordination, efficiency of scale (lack
thereof), tragedy of the commons, and other issues.

For example, in this particular case, even if consumers wanted these bikes /
bike stations, it might never happen if the company relied on consumer
sponsorship. Who's going to pay for such a service when there's only a handful
of stations and bikes? But how is the company going to get a ton of bikes /
install a bunch of stations without customers? Of course, raising money is one
way, but selling to a customer that (in theory) represents the entire
population (and has some of their money) is another.

Not saying that in this instance, the government is not incompetent/derelict
beyond all belief - all I am is saying is that you can't say a company isn't
providing something people want _just_ because they're selling to government.
In order to be able to do that, you'd have to first show that the government
in question is completely broken in that it _never_ provides things that are
beneficial to society, which the author has not (maybe the U.S. government is
close, but I doubt many would assert that it is 100% broken).

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hammock
Amsterdam, famous for bikes, has a nice bike share system. You buy a stolen
bike from a crackhead for 10 euro. You ride it around until it gets stolen
(maybe a week or two). Then you buy another bike for 10 euro. You never worry
about leaving it anywhere because you can always get a new one for cheap. It's
like a recycling program!

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pedalpete
I've always struggled with the term 'entrepreneur' as it seems anybody can
call themselves that, wether they are starting a project, running a franchise,
consulting/contracting, whatever.

It always to me seemed like a term with so much arrogance and yet didn't have
a concrete enough definition of what it is.

The google definitions
[http://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&...](http://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=definition+entrepreneur#hl=en&q=entrepreneur&tbs=dfn:1&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=3wsrTv7QBZLRiAKsrviwAg&ved=0CBYQkQ4&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=7ca3eaf9fad24547&biw=990&bih=868)

seem to imply the managing of financial risk, but really I think it is a word
that has lost it's meaning.

~~~
cagey
> it seems anybody can call themselves that

Kind of like "scientist"?

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teyc
The argument is that selling something that nobody wants to the government is
not entrepreneurship. This, I concur.

However, it was wrong to conflate something which _the author_ couldn't think
of anybody wanting with something that nobody wants.

Secondly, the entrepreneur isn't "selling" to the city. The city is getting
money for free, i.e. cut of the proceeds without having to come up with
capital or operating expenditure.

The lack of car parking spaces in cities is a growing problem and cities are
actively trying to solve the problem of public access without having to fund
public transport, since hiring public service workers may not be an option.
Providing bikes for hire can be seen as one of the measures a city can use to
reduce cab traffic.

For me, once I find a car park, I am very reluctant to leave it until work
finishes. If I have to go anywhere else say during lunch time, having access
to a bike would be extremely handy.

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Hyena
Bike sharing systems allow you to localize bike storage, removing the need to
transport bikes long distances. Instead, transit by bicycle is reduced to
middling distances where they have an advantage over both walking and cars.

Second, I don't see how this isn't entrepreneurship. By the author's logic, if
I design a workflow system which streamlines compliance measures and so allows
a city or state to shift more of their workforce to telecommuting, I'm not an
entrepreneur. But clearly, I found a specific problem (regulations that hamper
telecommuting) and privately engineered a solution to them; why my customer
base is an issue isn't clear.

I'd argue, in fact, that this kind of entrepreneurship may be far _more_
important than others because of the impact government has. The next geosocial
app won't produce nearly as much value in the economy as, e.g., the workflow
software considered above if only because it reduces government waste.

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cpt1138
Ive taken issue with 'entrepreneur' being associated with anyone that launches
a website regardless of what it does AND frankly any business whose sole
business model is advertising. I think its reached a saturation point where
its just not very interesting anymore. I accept that is a personal opinion and
money is money.

I think the more interesting problem is what venues of business are going to
create growth vs. which are just going to sap the reserves of the dwindling
pool.

To play devil's advocate, I think alternate transportation does need to be
subsidized because individual free choice is not always the "best" choice for
a society's growth.

~~~
grammaton
I think it comes down to what one considers entrepeneurial. Here at HN, with
the crowd heavily skewed as it is towards tech, the adwords seo marketing
facebook twitter dashboard mashup is seen as more entrepeneurial than this
bike sharing venture - which, arguably, falls under the same class of
businesses as, say, property management.

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jakecarpenter
Ignoring the obvious slant to the article (especially funny since the author
is questioning a Forbes article) dictionary.com defines an entrepreneur as:

en·tre·pre·neur [ahn-truh-pruh-nur, -noor; Fr. ahn-truh-pruh-nœr] 1\. a person
who organizes and manages any enterprise, especially a business, usually with
considerable initiative and risk. 2\. an employer of productive labor;
contractor.

So, if the article really wants to know is Ms. Cohen is an entrepreneur, then
I think the answer is yes. Also, how does an article with the phrase "the end
is near" in the tagline make it to the front page for so long?

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beatpanda
The author is right. Washington DC has an extensive bikeshare system, but over
the course of my summer internship it actually made more sense to buy a used
bike and sell it back at the end. This is because-

-The bikes are low-quality and heavy, by design

-The time limits and locations are too restrictive (you have to find another docking station, you can't just lock them up anywhere)

-The price point wasn't low enough to beat $170 for a used bike on Craigslist

Maybe I don't fit the use case because bicycles are my primary means of
transportation, but I really don't understand who these bikes are for.

~~~
makeramen
Minnesota's new bikeshare program is working quite well over its first year.
The bikes are nice, maintained daily, and kiosks are available almost
everywhere.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_Ride_Minnesota>

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bigwally
Lets play spot the difference.

From the article; "Her goal is not to sell the service to consumers, but
rather to the government." And now we change two words; "Her goal is not to
sell the service to consumers, but rather to venture capitalists."

The entire argument is flawed, they are selling to a customer. Does it matter
who the customer is?

Why does the government subsidize public transport in large cities?

From the Article; "In the case of Alta Bicycle Share, my life would be better
without its existence." Try swapping "Alta Bicycle Share" with "New York
Subway".

I certainly hope Casey Research (the article writer) wasn't subsidized by the
oil or car industry to write this piece of garbage.

~~~
keiferski
The point is that a system-wide focus on selling to the government isn't
desirable. Likewise, I would think that a system-wide focus on selling to
venture capitalists to be similarly undesirable.

The NY subway isn't a good comparison, at all. Most people would still use and
pay for the subway, even it were privatized. On the contrary (which is
specifically stated in the article) the rent-a-bikes don't seem to be needed
by consumers. Whether consumers _really_ want the bikes is unknown, but that
isn't the point he's making.

~~~
bigwally
>Most people would still use and pay for the subway, even it were privatized.

Given that nearly all the public transport for large cities is provided at a
loss, I wonder if people would pay? History suggests not.

I have no idea if the rent-a-bikes are needed by consumers or not. The article
doesn't seem to quote any studies by transport planners or the like. It is
written by a company that provides energy/oil information, I wouldn't expect
them to write an article about the problems of cars anytime soon.

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phyllotaxis
Pursuit of government sponsorship is easier than convincing people to part
with their hard earned money by persuasion. A government bureaucrat with a
magic bank account called a "departmental budget" filled with other peoples
money can be far easier to entice with the latest lame scheme to make the area
look good on paper, while adding nothing of genuine utility to the
infrastructure.

I agree with the author on this one- it's a waste of money. But is it
"entrepreneurial"? Yes. Sad, but yes.

~~~
TuaAmin13
My school has recently signed on to one of these programs but through a
different company (viaCycle @ Georgia Tech). Basically they're subsidizing
their business through students. We already pay for the campus bus system and
the school has plenty of bike racks at each building including bike storage
rooms and lockers at the dorms. But the alumni who own the company have
realized that the school will pay and the SGA will accept it because it makes
them look like they're doing something.

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gexla
Didn't read the article but I think, yes, everything is entrepreneurship. The
only difference is ever the model that you are earning on. Just because you
work for someone else on a w-4 doesn't mean you aren't an entrepreneur.

~~~
phyllotaxis
If you didn't bother yourself to read the article, why do you feel anything
you have to say on the topic is relevant?

~~~
grammaton
This could be asked of a number of comments, but sadly, rarely is.

