
Third richest man in China lives on $20 a day, eats same meals as workers - makeramen
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13427392
======
wildmXranat
When I was a 16 year old, my uncle hired me part-time to help him out with his
stone and tile installation contracting business. As a regular grunt, I was
happy to get that $10/hour and couldn't wait to spend it every couple of weeks
just after getting the cheque.

Eventually, I met the owner of the shop that gave the contracts out to
businesses like my uncle's and found out that he rakes in millions of $s
annually. Now, this elderly gentleman walked around in very worn-out gardener
overalls, talked to everyone on site, got to know each one of us personally,
offered help, ate with us and drove a beat-up 1980s Benz. He was the first
millionaire I met and quite honestly a model for a humble businessman.

My saving habits changed soon after that.

~~~
rdtsc
Just curious, how did he end up spening all that money? Did he go on extended
vacations? Did he eventually buy a large house? Was he just working mainly so
his family, children, extended family could have a better life?

I guess I understand that saving and living frugaly is in generally something
that is desirable, but what is the point of keep saving, if one is not really
planning on using it. It then might as well be a number on a bank statement,
or a wad of green paper under the mattrass. One can accumulate all that, then
die from over-exhaustion from accumulating it, then it might as well never
existed as far as that particular person is concerned, if they never really
got to enjoy it (Now perhaps some derive a large enjoyment just from the
process of accumulation and knowing they have access to large sums of money,
it is just what makes them happy, but that sounds a little to strange to me).

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
Think of it this way.

Imagine you have more money that you will ever spend in your entire life.
You've bought everything you want, go anywhere you want, etc. and still have
billions left over.

Is this really any different from having a $1M in the bank, being perfectly
happy, and not spending any of it? In both cases you have more than you need
and you're happy.

For many people saving and living frugally isn't a means to an end, it _is_
the end. It's how they like to live their life, and being able to do so while
keeping the bills paid makes them blissfully happy. That there may be millions
of unused $$$ in the bank is irrelevant to them.

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pnathan
I always admire rich men who do not live lavishly. There are more important
things than shiny things, and it is heartening to see people who know that,
regardless of which culture they come from.

~~~
c2
And the sad truth is the majority of "shiny things" are sold to people living
vastly beyond their means trying to pretend to live like these wealthy people.

~~~
hugh3
I'd be extremely interested to see actual statistics on these things, if only
they were available. Even more interesting would be to see how it breaks down
brand by brand.

Frinstance I'm guessing that the majority of the watches made by certain well-
marketed and expensive watch manufacturers (I shan't name any names lest
someone glance at their own wrist and feel the need to make an impassioned
defence) are bought by people who really can't afford to spend that much on a
watch. On the other hand, there are watches in the same price range which are
probably only getting bought by people who _can_ afford them, and most of 'em
are probably brands that most people have never even heard of.

~~~
Glide
I would definitely take a look at "The Millionaire Next Door". It contains
some of the statistics that you're looking for.

That book really made me evaluate what I am spending money on.

~~~
hugh3
I actually did read that book (I bought it on sale, natch).

But the whole thing is seriously flawed, because all his statistics are based
only on the small fraction of millionaires whom he actually interviewed, who
are surely not a random sampling of all millionaires.

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Shenglong
It's not really unusual for the older generation to spend more conservatively,
even when they're extraordinarily rich. USD/CNY is at 6.44 (or so), and $20 ~=
130 RMB. When I was in China, I easily survived on about 30-40 RMB/day... not
because I couldn't afford it, but good tasting food is usually from the cheap
street shops. I've had my share of golden-utensil $20,000 RMB meals, and
they're nothing special in terms of taste.

I'm wondering if this is cultural traditionalism or personal dedication. On
the other end of the spectrum, a lot of the Chinese have been trying to copy
western capitalism in spending.

The tea comment is silly. Great Chinese teas are difficult to steep. My
favorite kind of Oolong (category) tea for example, will taste disgusting if
the steeping temperature of the water is off by even 10 degrees, or the
steeping time is extended for even 3 seconds. Maybe he hasn't treated himself
to good teas!

~~~
Dove
I do agree that the tea comment is silly. Saying you like to drink Lipton tea
is like saying your favorite place to eat is Panda Express. To each his own, I
suppose, but it sounds awfully silly to praise the imitation when you _live in
China_.

You did catch my curiosity with this, though:

 _Great Chinese teas are difficult to steep. My favorite kind of Oolong
(category) tea for example, will taste disgusting if the steeping temperature
of the water is off by even 10 degrees, or the steeping time is extended for
even 3 seconds._

Really!

I've had that experience with Japanese greens. My favorite (Kagoshima Sencha
Yutaka Midori from o-cha.com) goes from sweet to bitter with about those
tolerences -- three seconds and ten degrees.

The Chinese teas in general, and even oolongs in particular, though, I've
found to be awfully forgiving. They seem pretty happy with approximately
boiling water and 30 - 60 seconds on a first steep. I've actually found that
to be sort of the charm of them; you can fly by the seat of your pants on the
brewing, and wind up with a fair bit of variety in the product.

My favorites (with these characteristics) are Bai Hao ("Oriental Beauty") and
teaspring.com's Wu Yi Yan Cha Bing. What are you drinking that's so touchy?

~~~
epochwolf
I've found Chinese Oolongs to be insanely easy to brew if you use a
temperature controlled kettle and set a timer. English black teas are even
easier. I had an Earl Grey last night that survived being forgotten for 10
minutes while I was chatting.

Side note: I've managed to duplicate the flavor of regular lipton by brewing
Bai Hao for about an hour and then reheating it in a microwave. (I didn't brew
it that long on purpose.)

~~~
Shenglong
_Side note: I've managed to duplicate the flavor of regular lipton by brewing
Bai Hao for about an hour and then reheating it in a microwave. (I didn't brew
it that long on purpose.)_

The white tea? Wow.

Anyway, yes. A more fragile tea is probably a 5+ year aged raw puh-er, as a
good example! I still can't brew mine properly. =(

~~~
epochwolf
No, I have a Bai Hao oolong. (Unless it's mislabeled :)

~~~
Dove
The label applies to both.

The white: <http://www.teaspring.com/Bai-Hao-Yin-Zhen.asp> The oolong:
<http://www.teaspring.com/Bai-Hao-Oolong.asp>

I _believe_ , though I don't speak chinese, that Bai Hao refers to the
varietal, while the tea class has to do with when it's harvested and how it's
processed.

Those teas are both really strong examples of the respective classes, but are
otherwise totally different.

------
phaedon
"He said hard work was the key to the poor lifting themselves out of poverty.
If you give money to the poor "they just spend it," he told me."

This is a key observation from a man who clearly practices what he preaches.

~~~
BadassFractal
You could say that this is not necessarily true, even though we all wish it
was. There's an endless supply of people out there who work really really hard
and yet they never become billionaires, in fact they might be living at
poverty levels.

It's kind of a cool myth, but social mobility doesn't quite work that way.

~~~
code_duck
I see two separate assertions : one, that hard work lifts you out of poverty.
Two, handouts don't result in lasting changes in someone's economic status. I
agree with you on the first. As for the second, that seems true enough: few
welfare recipients have their lives transformed by the payments.

------
code_duck
This is what normal people do. The real question is why certain wealthy people
think they need to throw away the money that they extract from consumers and
employees on things like cocaine, vacation houses and prostitutes.

~~~
pavel_lishin
Why do you consider that "throwing away money"? What if I happen to enjoy
cocaine and prostitutes?

~~~
code_duck
I hope that people will do something more constructive with the resources they
extract from others labor, that's all. Drugs and prostitution serve the
purpose of transient sensory gratification, and do not build anything.

Of course, money is not real and it does not disappear when it is spent. What
_is_ real is the resources and labor extracted at the expense of others to
provide and procure these services. Most likely, my examples could be improved
and aren't worth discussing in particular.

I'm taking exception to lavish spending and resource allotment which does not
even make the person spending the money happy, yet is done at the expense of
others who have real needs that are going unmet. I do think an act like
spending $200,000 on a bottle of wine at a restaurant just for the heck of it,
while the purchaser might have hundreds of employees for whom 200k would be a
life changing relief, can be seen as sociopathic.

~~~
cynicalkane
_the resources they extract from others labor_

The meme that capitalism is exploitation should be considered harmful. In
market societies, money is (in general) not forcibly extracted and trade
certainly doesn't happen (in general) at the expense of others.

~~~
code_duck
I didn't say 'forcibly'. One way or the other, it's about others labor and
assets being concentrated in the hands of people who squander them.

~~~
netcan
I understand where you're coming from. It seems unfair. Don't worry though,
plenty of cocaine and prostitutes are left for the proletariat. In fact I
think average consumption is about even down the ladder. We no longer have to
make do with religion.

~~~
code_duck
I don't really want those, I want the yacht!

~~~
netcan
Greedy rat bastard coal miner. Give ya a finger and you want the hand. Take
the whoores & blow or you'll get Jesus. Makes no difference to me.

Anyway, what good is a yacht without them.

------
mikecane
I'm just curious and not out to cast aspersions on him because I liked that
profile very much, but is $20/day more than most Chinese workers make? I have
no idea, so am just asking.

~~~
nowarninglabel
The figure has varied fairly wildly over the last decade, so I think it would
be hard to pin down an accurate number. The average seems to be about
$100-200/month. I don't think that makes his actions any less humble though.

You should take note though that the focus here is on factory workers, whereas
the average Chinese wage for all Chinese workers would be lower.

~~~
riams
Actually, Hangzhou is a very rich city by Chinese standards due to their
entrepreneurial culture. Despite "only" having 2 million inhabitants, LV sells
the most items in Hangzhou compared to all other Chinese cities. Also, their
more central streets are lined with luxury car shops.

$20/day does not seem too unreasonable for local Hangzhounese.

------
archgoon
"The two companies merged in 1991 after a fierce media campaign led by the
employees of the canning company, who accused him of being a capitalist."

Well... it seems to have been a valid 'criticism'. Does anyone know if this
sort of attack still happens in China? I'd be amused if it did at the very
least.

~~~
felipe
"being a capitalist" is a catch-all accusation used when employers are trying
to remove benefits from employees. It's the same as calling someone "greedy"
in the west. There is still tons of protests and criticisms led by employees
in China for better working conditions. Also, keep in mind that since the 50s
the system took care of factory workers, from food and housing and even
authorizing marriages! And then, out of a sudden the capitalist reforms came
and they were all threw in this competitive market economy without any
benefits. The term "being a capitalist" includes all these nuances and
grievances.

Also, note that China today is _NOT_ this extreme-capitalistic country that
people think. The big enterprises (telecom, oil, etc...) are open and
competitive, but most of the shares are actually owned by the government. In
fact, when they describe "Capitalism with Chinese Characteristics" I believe
it is not a buzzword (like many believe) but really a meaningful description.
It seems that they actually created something different.

------
thisisblurry
On a very basic level, he isn't all that different from Warren Buffet, who is
widely known to live quite frugally given his worth.

------
yaix
The last sentense caught my attention: "While Walmart and Carrefours are
pulling out of Chinese operations, [...]"

Walmart and Carrefour "pulling out"??! Both are openening new stores at an
amazing speed, undless that changed in the past year. Does anybody know more
about this or have a link?

~~~
yardie
I read an article in the Economist, according to them Walmart is opening
stores throughout Asia in accordance to Asian lifestyles. Carrefour, who was
in the region first, is scaling back and selling off stores because they
aren't as profitable as they thought. Part of this is corporate culture,
Carrefour (big French company) wanted to run its business in the Carrefour
way, all decisions are done in Europe. Walmart chose the franchise model, the
store is designed and decorated like a giant chinese market, carries more
local products (fruits, veg, meats, etc.) and buying decisions are made per
store.

~~~
yaix
Thanks. I ll try to find it on the Economist site.

Living in China, I don't see much difference between Walmart and Carrefour
supermarkets, both in decoration and in products, even compared with Chinese
chains like Wu-Mei or Lianhua. They all have fresh meats (life frogs and
turtles) and fish (a wall of water tanks with life fish), etc.

~~~
yardie
I found it, here.

<http://www.economist.com/node/17101193>

~~~
yaix
Nice, thanks again.

>> "Carrefour’s Asian strategy is to stay the course in China and Taiwan,
[...]"

Looks like they only pull out of South-East Asia, not China, though.

------
trungonnews
I don't think this is something to be admired. Does he really believe that he
can bring his money to the grave or something?

~~~
roel_v
I guess the point is that he doesn't care about the money. I don't think he's
purposely denying himself things he could afford but doesn't buy so that he
can add another 1000$ to his bank account.

~~~
poutine
If he didn't care about money then why wouldn't he distribute it to his
employees in some sort of profit sharing? Noted he's a philanthropist, but
he's also the 3rd richest so he's keeping a hell of a lot of the money.
There's nothing noble here, just greed in a different form.

~~~
sliverstorm
You're the one who sounds greedy, expecting him to give his money to his
employees for no particular reason.

------
asciilifeform
A Marie Antoinette.

------
suprgeek
"My only exercise is doing market research... my only hobbies are smoking and
drinking tea" -Extremely Unhealthy to boot. If you are a billionaire and still
cannot afford the time to take care of your health, what is the point of
working so hard? Let us NOT hold this guy up as some sort of paragon of hard
work to be emulated.

~~~
oscardelben
You may want to investigate what the halo effect is about. It's not very
rational to judge a man as a whole from just one trait.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect>

~~~
suprgeek
Sure, but is that not what this story is doing anyway? Holding the frugality
of a rich man as a great virtue and writing an article is indeed judging him
on one trait

~~~
oscardelben
I think that you can be interesting enough to be worth an article even though
you may have some other weak trait. All of us have some.

In this specific case I can assure you that smoking is seen differently in
various countries. For example when I visited the US I was astonished to see
that smoking was prohibited near most buildings, etc, which is totally a good
thing, it's just not like that everywhere else.

