
Facebook told advertisers it can identify teens feeling 'insecure', 'worthless' - rbanffy
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/01/facebook-advertising-data-insecure-teens?CMP=twt_gu
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Ajedi32
Previous discussion:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14236360](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14236360)

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sfilargi
Why don't we have a subscription based, non-tracking, ad-free social network
yet??

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phailhaus
Is that a serious question? Social networks are dependent on network effects.
Having a subscription immediately increases the barrier to entry too high for
people to be able to get their friends on the same platform.

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sfilargi
Yes it is.

My feeling is that we have entered an age that youth is not naive anymore and
would happily pay $3/month (at least in the US) for a non-tracking all-round
communication service.

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eightysixfour
Just asked my teenage siblings and both of them responded that they don't care
that they are tracked and aren't sure why they'd pay. Only an anecdote, but
there you go.

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sfilargi
Maybe it is just wishful thinking on my part then :D

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ReverseCold
Yeah, as someone in that age range, none of my friends particularly care if
some company has all their information and is doing whatever with it.

As long as no one else they know sees...

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wahern
Is this supposed to be a bad thing? If I were a non-profit working on teen
depression and suicide, this sounds like an amazing innovation. My
intervention and education dollar would go much further.

I don't understand the sinister outlook, especially from people who in other
contexts--e.g. cryptography & terrorism--would adamantly claim that technology
is neutral and that the net benefit from innovation is with rare exception to
the betterment of society.

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dwaltrip
Non-profits strive to place human outcomes over financial results. Many
corporations are either unwilling or unable to do so, beyond what is required
by law.

Market forces aren't well suited, on their own, to deal with these kind of
externalities.

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chimeracoder
> Non profits strive to place human outcomes over financial results. Most
> corporations are either unwilling or unable to do so, beyond what is
> required by law.

This is incredibly reductive. A non-profit _can_ strive to place human
outcomes over financial results, but nothing requires them to, and there are
plenty of forces that push them in the other direction as well.

Conversely, for-profit corporations might not strive to place human outcomes
over financial results, but nothing prevents them from doing so[0], and some
in fact do.

The "non-profit" vs. "for-profit" distinction tells you literally nothing
about a company's ethics.

[0] Every time this topic comes up, someone brings up Dodge v. Ford, which (a)
is not the most relevant precedent, even in Michigan law; (b) does not
actually establish the precedent that people citing it usually thinks it does,
even in Michigan law, (c) was soundly rejected in other states shortly after
the Michigan decision, and (d) has since been overturned (in the part that is
relevant here) in Michigan.

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dwaltrip
> The "non-profit" vs. "for-profit" distinction tells you literally nothing
> about a company's ethics.

Have you researched this? It's quite a strong claim.

On average, there are large differences between the two org types, in legal
structure, vision, goals, funding, motivation, etc.

It would be quite peculiar if all of these differences has zero net effect.
It'd be like flipping a coin and having it land on the narrow edge.

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kfrzcode
I was just about to post to AskHN about how much data these social network
behemoths can garner from unposted data, i.e., I write something into my
status box or a comment like "fuck the police," then delete without posting,
is that data gathered and mined? My gut and brain say yes, because it's easily
possible to gather it and with the little bit of research I found no evidence
that really shows one way or another what happens behind closed doors at these
mega companies.

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slinkyavenger
I remember reading about this a few years ago, and observed network activity
using Facebook. They certainly did capture what you type but fail to post. I
would put serious money on them mining that data, too, since it can reveal
someone's true uncensored thoughts.

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kfrzcode
I'm going to take a weekend and build a javascript capturing tool that does
just this, so I can open the source up and get a viral post on HN, that should
spark some discussion

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laretluval
function(teenager) { return true; }

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kordless
Or, maybe only depressed teenagers use Facebook.

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sverige
What can I sell these teens once I've identified them? Makeup? Clothes? Teen
Spirit?

I really hate both marketing people and advertising people (present company
excluded of course),

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gooseus
Can you imagine the universe where everyone had taken Bill Hicks seriously
back in the 90s?

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UlapnsFLhc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UlapnsFLhc)

I actually can't and it makes me very sad.

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iLoch
You can set your state of mind along with your status now, so I guess this
isn't really surprising - if that's how they do it (I only skimmed the
article.)

What's new, _really?_ This is just another data point people are willingly
handing over for Facebook to sell as per the terms of service.

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colept
Doesn't that account for just about all teens?

Question is can they identify the insecurity?

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patrickaljord
There are probably studies out there by universities and other organizations
about how teens insecure about X, Y or Z tend to enjoy consuming products A, B
or C. Facebook can easily recoup this information with pages and posts teens
tend to like. They could also analyze the tones of their comments with some AI
though this is not as advanced as we may think.

There are probably a gazillion other variables they can play with to end up
with pretty good results about what teens are insecure about and how they tend
to behave on Facebook and specially what kind of ads they're most to likely to
click on. Note that they don't sell this info to their clients, they just show
the ads to the right people.

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bingomad123
I don't understand what is the big deal. Google probably knows that a teenager
is pregnant before her boyfriend.

It is also a good thing general if people could target people and offer them
products which might help them.

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helthanatos
Well it surely can't identify me. So now Facebook wants advertisers to try to
sell kids pharmaceuticals or therapy? What good would that do?

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lucasmullens
Facebook seems to know I have ADHD and suggested a few "fidget toys". I
actually like those ads.

I could see targeted ads for things like full-spectrum lights (used for people
with seasonal affective disorder) or Headspace (app for meditation) being a
good thing.

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catshirt
it can't arbitrate news, do we really want it trying to arbitrate diagnoses?

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deevolution
But it could, eventually, theoretically? Ideally if it were good at its job it
could point out things that you weren't consciously aware of before and then
suggest appropriate courses of action. Advertising may not be the best medium
for this, but perhaps another app that analyses your facebook
habits/behaviors. Doesnt even need to be facebook specific. I think its worth
some research effort.

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catshirt
i'm all for computers diagnosing things, just a little concerned with the
ethics of "researching" at Facebook-scale.

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phoneyphone
Source article with paywall removed:
[http://outline.com/UgbtWJ](http://outline.com/UgbtWJ)

