

The rise of atheism in America - wdavidturner
http://news.yahoo.com/rise-atheism-america-110700315.html

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jshintaku
I think the cultural shift of younger religious folks towards tolerance and
liberalism is more a testament to the values of humans changing religion to
serve their needs as opposed to a divine creator dictating aprior moral
tenants that never change. I think the US is going through more of a cultural
shift brought on by the 1960/70s than a fundamental belief/disbelief in
creation/evolution.

Does anyone else find it curious that Atheists who disavow organized beliefs
end up codifying their own belief system into organizations such as the
"insert atheist group here" which act as defacto church for nonbelievers. I am
still waiting for Nietzsche's superman to deliver a new morality for the end
of the Christian epoch. I guess I will have to wait a while for that to
happen...

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iamdave
_Does anyone else find it curious that Atheists who disavow organized beliefs
end up codifying their own belief system into organizations such as the
"insert atheist group here"_

No, because atheists don't disavow belief systems, just one that requires you
accept a belief in a higher being/God character. I consistently see this
thought pattern and it makes me wish people went into a deeper inquiry of
atheism than by just jumping on the popular rejectionist stance. Atheists are
not nihilists.

~~~
jshintaku
Look that is fine. But part of the article states that there is no basis for
morality outside of a higher power. If there is no moral authority higher than
humans then on what grounds do you begin to build a belief system. It will
just degenerate into one man's opinion against another which is the foundation
of the master/slave morality. Or do you believe in some apriori rationality
that preceded the universe that man has unique capabilities to discover. That
might lead you into the domain of a higher power or some form of deism. Your
thoughts?

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iamdave
_If there is no moral authority higher than humans then on what grounds do you
begin to build a belief system._

Genuine concern and consideration for another human being? And I disagree
_heavily_ with the idea that different opinions lays any sort of a setup for
slavery, people disagree all the time; it's a side effect of humanity in a
world that's rapidly starting to see cultural integrations on a level never
before thought-of.

I've always made the statement that I am an atheist until proven otherwise;
don't confuse that with agnosticism, it means I do not see sufficient proof
(or reason for that matter) to believe in a deity of which man should worship
and this is a stance that I wont change until sufficient proof presents
itself.

~~~
jshintaku
Fair enough I personally do not care what you believe in, if it is the tooth
fairy or ganesh or yawheh or nothing at all.

One of the points the article was making was that people naturally distrust
atheists due to the fact they cannot derive a morality based on humans alone
not necessarily whether or not they believe in a diety. Which is why they
often say I don't care what you believe in just believe in something higher
than yourself. You are just stating a belief system i.e. I am a secular
humanist not where this belief derived from i.e from rationality we derive our
universal moral standards of concern and consideration for other humans. Or
some form of utilitarianism that suggests that concern and consideration are
in our best interests as a whole society.

In reality cultural integration is a bit of an illusion as hegemony rules the
law of the land in most cases. Travel to Syria or North Korea right now and
you will find that power is the morality people usually follow.

To believe that we are all self-rational actors heading towards some grand
path of enlightenment and cultural integration in some far off utopia
wonderland of cooperation and mutual self-benefit is to ignore the more
animalistic and competitive bit of our nature.

