
Republican engineer fired by Google hits back - tempsy
https://www.wsj.com/articles/fired-by-google-a-republican-engineer-hits-back-theres-been-a-lot-of-bullying-11564651801?mod=rsswn
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georgewfraser
Why does google continue to have these internal message boards about non-work
topics? What I’ve heard from friends at google is that discussion is dominated
by a tiny, vocal minority with extreme views, much like a college campus. It
seems like 99% of googlers and certainly the company would be better off if
they just dropped the “bring your whole self to work” message and closed these
forums.

~~~
julienreszka
Yes let's make work even more alienating. Hurray

~~~
AnimalMuppet
Does closing the message boards make work more alienating? Or does their
_existence_ make work more alienating (for most of the workers)?

~~~
julienreszka
Just look up the definition of alienation. Parent poster suggested to not
bring your whole self to work.

~~~
finnthehuman
Nobody gets to bring their "whole self" to work. Not unless “theirself” never
steps outside social protocol for an office. It's a con. They want your mental
investment, but what extra leeway do they give you to be yourself beyond what
you already had?

Being yourself especially doesn’t exist in tech. Everything is so non-
conformist conformist. I can't even have a conversation as myself at work. My
roommates work in the trades, how I talk to them at home would get me fired so
fucking fast if I tried it at work.

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cbanek
> “I very much regret joining Google,” he says. “I figured it would be a good
> place to see intelligent arguments through."

Um, here I thought it was a place to get some work done, not have political
arguments? I don't see why so many people bring politics into the workplace
unnecessarily. I have very strong political feelings, and I just try to keep
them to myself at work, and talk about them outside of work. Especially if
other people voice opinions to the opposite.

Work is hard enough to get done with just normal feelings about one's work,
let alone getting politics involved.

~~~
tempsy
It's the nature of work today. The lines between "work" and "life" have been
blurred. The whole "burnout" phenomenon is a direct result of the fact that
people are more emotionally invested in their work than ever, so it's not
really fair to suggest that employees leave "politics" at home when society is
prodding you to bring your whole self to work everyday.

~~~
wyclif
Whatever our personal philosophies or politics, I think it's obvious that the
nature of technical work has changed in America. Google's campus is lifestyle-
designed. It's meant to maximise the time engineers spend on campus, with
meals, laundry, massages, snacks, and other amenities.

Is it any wonder that, even if employees try to create a mental/emotional
strict separation between work and home life, they would be tempted to bring
their personal beliefs into work with them? It's human nature and inevitable,
and Google, Facebook, et al opened the Pandora's Box on this effect.

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librish
It will be very hard for anyone outside of the people directly involved to
have an informed opinion about this, simply because Google will never release
their side of the story.

That being said, I have seen several people claiming "I was
fired/removed/banned for having opinion X" and in MOST of those cases my view
was that they were at a minimum being very insensitive on multiple occasions.

Engineers often seem to have a tendency to treat Internet debating as a sport,
relentlessly pointing out small logical flaws or playing Devil's Advocate, and
then to entrench themselves further when facing backlash. If you pair that
with political topics (where other people can get very, very emotionally
invested quickly) on a workplace message board it's a recipe for a hostile
discussion.

~~~
thedragon4453
> That being said, I have seen several people claiming "I was
> fired/removed/banned for having opinion X" and in MOST of those cases my
> view was that they were at a minimum being very insensitive on multiple
> occasions.

In the article it says that he wanted to buy lunch to talk about the deep
thinker that circulated a memo saying women aren’t going to be as good as men
in tech.

I’m just saying, don’t think he was let go because he was posting that he
loves trickle down economics or small government. That there is no actual
examples in the article of the type of thing he believes he was fired for
doesn’t bode well either.

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WaxProlix
I wonder what he was actually saying on these boards. Sometimes people clothe
fairly repugnant stuff in 'political free speech'. Being toxic in the
workplace shouldn't be tolerated, even if the would-be bully happens to claim
some political leaning or another. The fact that the most damning quote we saw
called him a "toxic asshole" and not a "conservative asshole" or something
seems to imply he was just a not so great human being.

For the record, and I regret having to say this, but I do enjoy debate and
have a healthy respect for free speech etc, and I'm by no means a pro-Google
or pro-any hegemony type.

~~~
AnimalMuppet
Hard to say. If I'm mad at you because you're conservative, I can still call
you "toxic" because it sounds worse. I can even justify it if, from my
perspective, all conservatives are toxic by definition.

Note well: I'm not saying that's what happened. I'm just saying that someone
choosing that word doesn't tell us much.

~~~
WaxProlix
Sure, it just seems like if there were anything more damning the guy would
likely want it front and center (unless there are legal terms around that sort
of thing etc).

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olooney
“I figured it would be a good place to see intelligent arguments through. It
didn’t really turn out how I expected.”

When the urge gets irresistible, I post my "intelligent arguments" about
politics to reddit, anonymously. Strangely, no one ever seems to change their
mind! Odd, that. I'm under no illusion that this is healthy or productive,
even less so that it will win me friends and accolades. It's hard to imagine
the mindset of someone who thinks it would be a good idea to do this at work.

~~~
tempsy
I mean, I think the underlying issue this person has (and others, most likely)
is the perception that it is "OK" to be very vocal about left-leaning views in
the workplace but it is not okay to be the same about right-leaning ones.

The whole point is that it's unfair to those workers to have to "hide" in
anonymous forums to express views that are held by half the country,
especially if the workplace has made it clear there are no consequences (or
that it's encouraged) to vocally express the views of the other side.

~~~
DanBC
We don't know what he means by "right leaning views".

The one near example we had was that he told someone that she needed to be
more resilient. This is obviously a bad idea.

~~~
CapricornNoble
Is resiliency not considered a virtue? Is an addition of resiliency not a net
benefit, all other things being equal? Coming from a work/lifestyle culture
where "Harden the F-- Up" is uttered almost daily, I'm not seeing how urging a
coworker to upgrade their fortitude is a problem.

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mrbonner
You know, free speech is a right in this nation. But, when I go to work I
would leave my views of religions, politics and now guns at home. I just want
to go to work, get things done and get the heck out. Heck, I don’t even want
to stay after dark to socialize anymore. I am really concerned that if I say
something stupid after a few drinks, I would be vilified like a sexist,
antisocial or whatever the label is nowadays.

~~~
calciphus
Relevant xkcd: [https://xkcd.com/1357/](https://xkcd.com/1357/)

Free speech refers to the speaker and the government. It does not mean you are
free from the personal or professional consequences of speech.

~~~
julienreszka
Stop thinking that this is some universal definition of free speech. Free
speech can only fully be free speech if it's everywhere otherwise it should be
called liberal speech.

Lookup the difference between freedom and liberty

