
Measles outbreak rages after anti-vaccine groups target vulnerable community - bluejekyll
https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/05/measles-outbreak-rages-after-anti-vaccine-groups-target-vulnerable-community/
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nonbel
I got the historical measles data from project tycho[1] a few years ago, and
plotted by week. It looks like this outbreak is right on time:
[https://i.imgur.com/wVDvo43.png](https://i.imgur.com/wVDvo43.png)

The seasonality here is amazing.

[1]
[http://www.tycho.pitt.edu/data/level1.php](http://www.tycho.pitt.edu/data/level1.php)

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samangan
How can we combat woo-woo of this type on a local level? When I moved out to
the bay area from Arkansas, I thought I would be escaping this type of garbage
but it is still rampant out here. It just comes in a different form. Here the
neighborhood health food stores have entire sections devoted to homepathic
"medicines", and I see anti-vaxxer bumper stickers plastered all over town.
Events like the "March for Science" that just happened are all good, but I
worry that standing up for Science and "reason" is too general and abstract.
How can local groups educate people to counteract these movements that have
actual damaging effects on our communities? Are there organizations we can
donate to that have this type of education as a primary goal?

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ReligiousFlames
In the South and midwest, magical thinking (ie church, religion and faith) is
given more weight than rationality.

In those sort of areas, the pastors and most prominent families have the most
influence over communities beliefs, generally.

In the Bay Area, social groups tend to form around work colleagues or hobbies.
There are some churches, but they're not typically the center of Valley social
universes.

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PeterisP
Isn't there space for lawsuits - reckless endangerment, medical advice
(harmful) without a licence, etc?

Or does first amendment override such cases and they can go on undeterred?
After all, this is a case where this speech caused direct harm to particular
individuals.

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Kenji
You cannot remove the burden to think for oneself from people. Fining people
who give wrong advice sets a really dangerous precedent. What is wrong? Will
we start fining climate change deniers? What about fining people who believe
that certain antidepressants are dangerous? Etc.

EDIT: I wanna add to this that if you make things government-mandated and
force it on people, you only give the conspiracy theorists more reason to be
suspicious.

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akytt
Simple. You endanger yourself - be my guest. You endanger others, you suffer.
The key role of government is to represent community interest and not
vaccinating your kids is very clearly endangering others.

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tcj_phx
Measles is one of the diseases that you only get once, then you're immune for
the rest of your life. Some kids are killed by measles, which is why the
vaccine is popular - it is difficult to predict which kids will have a
difficult case of teh measles.

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baq
It's worse. Some kids can't be vaccinated for whatever reasons. They piggyback
on others. If you take the herd immunity from their society, you put them in
grave danger.

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andrewflnr
Who is profiting from anti-vaccination propaganda, and how? Are they just
going for publicity? I know some actually believe it, but people like
Wakefield need some sort of motive.

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glasz
what's the point for all the hate? everybody who got the shot is safe. now you
are running around screaming at ppl who didn't? how can one non-vaccinated
person endanger vaccinated ppl?

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joncampbelldev
They endanger the people for whom the vaccines are not effective (its not a
100% preventative), or people who have weakened immune systems / a medical
condition and thus can't have the vaccine. The non-vaccinated person becomes
an extra vector for spreading the disease amongst a population.

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glasz
the theory is that vaccines train the immune system. so, it's not like the
virus doesn't exist anymore but the body knows how to fight it. "weak" ppl are
endangered anyway.

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joncampbelldev
Vaccinated people are not effective carriers for the disease because their
body is properly fighting it. Unlike an infected person.

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yuhong
I have been thinking that probably most likely vaccines can appear to "cause"
autism, but only if there is things like leaky gut.

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protomyth
some discussion from an earlier, local newspaper article
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14229989](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14229989)

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AckSyn
Darwin awards would suffice here if this antivax crap didn't hurt others who
were vaccinating properly as people are supposed to.

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cies
Could you please elaborate how someone not-vaxing who gets sick can hurt a
vaxed person? I hear this argument some times but no-one was able to explain
how this works.

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manyxcxi
Even more importantly certain vaccines are given at certain ages. So if some
anti-science parent doesn't vaccinate their brood and say, take their kid to
the same play area as my kids, one of which isn't a year old yet, she's now
got an exposure to something she can't be vaccinated for yet.

This is why having high vaccination rates are so important. There is a
percentage who can't be vaccinated (age, health issues, whatever), there's an
unknown percentage for whom the vaccination just didn't work, and then there's
the wide circle of immunity formed around them by everyone else who is immune
and up to date on those immunizations.

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nonbel
Please stop spreading this "cannot vaccinate due to age" myth. It is
completely off-base. I explained more here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14282142](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14282142)

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manyxcxi
It's not really a myth if your pediatrician won't do it. And though I see the
idea as valid, I'm not really going to fight against the vaccination schedule
that every pediatrician wants to stick to.

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nonbel
What reason did the pediatrician give?

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ReligiousFlames
As antivaxxers and MMS folks are irrational child-abusers, they should be
investigated by CPS. Worse, antivaxxers put the _community_ at risk by
reducing herd immunity. Just like fluoride in water, there should be no
exceptions for protective prophylaxis like vaccines. No exclusions for
religious magical thinking or affluenza "conditions," only based on medical
need where harm would be likely.

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danjc
Have you ever read the list of side effects of a vaccine?

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bobdole1234
You understand the differential of risk right?

You've got a 1 in 10 million or so chance of serious adverse reaction to
vaccination.

You've got a 1 in 10 chance of serious adverse reaction if you're exposed to
the virus.

You're effectively saying something along the lines of "Do you know how
dangerous motorcycle riding is?! We should play russian routlette instead!"

