
Microsoft In Talks To Buy Shoutcast And Winamp From AOL - Kopion
http://techcrunch.com/2013/11/21/source-microsoft-in-talks-to-buy-shoutcast-and-winamp-from-aol/
======
ewams
Starting a Winamp fund. 100k to join. If >9 other people join me we will make
AOL an offer. Contact in profile.

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jreposa
I get it's a piece of history, but how do you monetize this? Convert it to
paid software? Streaming service subscription?

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benologist
Winamp has a 10,000,000 - 50,000,000 installs android app, that opens up a lot
of possibilities.

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cabbeer
What kind of add revenue can you get from that user base?

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benologist
No idea but I don't think display ads would be that great since it's mostly
passive software. I would think there are better ways to monetize it - premium
enhancements, amazon/itunes referrals, cloud backup/streaming your library,
even just selling it for a buck ... 'best' trumps 'free' a lot of the time on
mobile.

~~~
mistermann
I swear I was reading a different HN thread on this topic yesterday or even
today, and the very idea of paying for a music service was considered
extremely offensive.

~~~
rjbwork
I pay for rdio and SubSonic. Granted my subsonic license is grandfathered in
from before the developer changed to a subscription model, but the point
remains.

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jc_dntn
Did a monkey write this?

"picked up through its 1999, $80 million acquisition of Nullsoft in 1999. But
today Techcrunch has learned that AOL is talks with Microsoft"

~~~
taopao
not time 4 profred, in internets FIRST post winner!

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sandGorgon
I'm not sure if the posters on this thread are serious (w.r.t
fundraising/designing/contributing for Winamp), but here's is my thought:

I would venture that doing this exact same thing for Foobar2k is going to have
a higher possibility of success than for Winamp. Secondly, while Winamp has
mostly been in maintenance, Foobar is now considered an audiophile grade
player (bitperfect?) (e.g. [1]) . There's also this team that has built a
stripped down version of Windows 8 with Foobar for audiophiles ([2]) There is
usually a post every now and then on Hydrogenaudio forums, asking if Foobar2k
can be opensource/ported to linux, and the answer is the same - the authors
have no plan to make it so, because in all probability they are waiting for a
financial outcome of all this work.

Be warned that the authors can come off a bit... prickly. But I suspect that
is the side effect of handling a huge freeloading community for many years.

Disclaimer - I have moved off PC audio for a while now. I prefer listening to
my audio on the phone streaming from my laptop over Plex (however, I got
interested in Foobar again while trying to build a stripped down Windows 8
using AudiophileOptimizer[2])

[1] [http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/06/measurements-part-ii-
bi...](http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/06/measurements-part-ii-bit-
perfect.html) [2] [http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/iso-usb-
key-i...](http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/iso-usb-key-
installer-preconfigured-and-stripped-down-audiophile-version-windows-8-pro-
including-jriver-and-foobar-14390/)

~~~
probably_wrong
I agree that the posters might be more successful in getting the source code
from Foobar than Winamp, but I don't think it's a better move.

The post regarding Winamp closing has 892 points and 520 comments now, which I
think it's the largest number of comments I've seen in a HN history - although
it's probably not the overall largest, it's a clear sign that the Winamp brand
is still incredibly valuable.

Compare that to Foobar2k. In that thread it was consistently rated as the best
alternative, and yet how do the users see it? "Closed source, confusing at
best, current authors come off a bit prickly".

Winamp is not just a media player - I'd argue that by now it's closer to an
ideal. Getting the rights for _that_ brand sounds to me like the best idea.

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ChickeNES
I was really hoping they would just open source it.

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stormbrew
Would love if this happened, but I wasn't hoping for it. It's a shame, though.

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netvisao
It's more to it than simply open source it. I work for AOL, and know some
folks who worked on Winamp on a personal level. Winamp has proprietory
licenses for some of its codecs for every install AOL pays licensing fees
which it does recoup via other services (such as search agreements with GOOG
or Shoutcast major partners). If it were to AOL to open source it, it need to
strip our those pieces, translating into few months of work on the clock.

~~~
ewams
Can you contact me? Info in profile.

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ksk
Why is MS doing this? They should just leave WA alone.

IMO, every passing day SME-sized consumer software companies are going to find
it harder to survive. I wish there was a consumer market for well written
compact software that just does its job well, doesnt mine your data, doesnt
try to push some shitty subscription model or advertisement crap onto users.

~~~
efdee
Given the choice between WinAmp disappearing and Microsoft adopting it, what
would you pick?

In the first case, your only solution is to stick with one of the older
versions that are offered for download on some OldVersions page (since AOL is
apparently removing their download links). In the latter, you still have that
solution, but now there's also the possibility of Microsoft keeping it
available, or screwing up newer versions.

All I can see is hope.

~~~
kintamanimatt
Winamp disappearing by far. I haven't used it since my Windows days but it
should die with dignity rather than turn into another Skype.

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Demiurge
Wow, if they replace Windows Media Player with it, and embrace shoutcast, that
would be great. But probably not going to happen, so I wonder what they're
thinking.

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drivingmenuts
They're probably thinking "We can co-opt the userbase and make media-sharing
lucrative".

What'll most likely happen is that they'll buy it and let it hang on in its
current state like some half-wounded animal, kind of like Skype.

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ChuckMcM
That would be a win, sort of. If they could map WMP more like WinAmp at least

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Dirlewanger
You really think that would ever have a chance to happen?

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ChuckMcM
Well I thought the chance was none zero when WinAmp was going to expire
directly. I upgraded it to 'slim' in the event Microsoft actually buys it from
AOL.

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MrZongle2
I fear that these technologies will suffer the same fate as Caligari
TrueSpace: the IP is purchased, thrown into a bin somewhere on campus, and
abandoned.

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GFischer
Hadn't heard of Caligari TrueSpace before now.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueSpace](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueSpace)

Winamp probably has a huge userbase compared to Caligari though.

~~~
MrZongle2
Yes, I'm sure it did (does). TrueSpace was priced around $300, which tended to
put a damper on adoption.

As a 3d modeling and animation package, it served as a poor man's Lightwave 3D
or Maya. The interface would probably give some designers fits. Still, it was
a useful and nimble application and one of my first experiences with CGI. If I
could get it to reliably run on an XP SP3 box or in a VM, I'd probably still
be playing with it.

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afreak
Have to wonder if this is one of those situations where Microsoft wants to buy
it to figure out later what to do with it.

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pyrocat
Better to die a hero than live to see yourself become the villain.

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polarix
No. This is now wrong. Microsoft is reformed.

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pyrocat
[http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/Scroogle...](http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/Scroogled/categoryID.67575900)

~~~
smtddr
Ya know, I'm over the whole trendy hating on MS, I was ready to argue with
you.... but that link crushed me. I just hope they don't mess with Shoutcast
too much; I _love_ their 70's & 80's stream.

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boyter
I'm actually a fan of it. Its about time Microsoft stopped quietly accepting
every slur against them and dish some out. Examples would be the famous Apple
Ad's, the negative press about Vista etc...

I know that's a very high school view but it does make things more
interesting.

~~~
zht
what slurs did Google levy against Bing?

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boyter
The Yahoo attempted takeover springs to mind (mentioned already), and the
accusations of copying search results,

[http://googleblog.blogspot.com.au/2011/02/microsofts-bing-
us...](http://googleblog.blogspot.com.au/2011/02/microsofts-bing-uses-google-
search.html)

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caycep
I feel like Winamp should be open sourced. There's enough enthusiasm here to
guarantee a fairly healthy dev community. How does it compare with the default
KDE/gnome players _? Would it add anything of value to what is already out
there?

_ (never used them since my linux boxen are all either networking or imaging
focused, not desktop)

~~~
rithi
Decent options. Amarok, Rhythmbox, Clementine. I'm happy with Clementine.

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poub
I think it’s a great opportunity. Shoutcast has a greater installed base than
Icecast. But more importantly a really passionate user base.

However there is broken feature by design on _ALL_ those streaming services:
they stop for whatever reason.

As a listener it’s a terrible experience. It’s alaways when you start
listening something you really like that it stops.

And you could think it stops because I try to listen on the mobile, so that’s
normal. NO it stops even at home on your desktop. When you start listening a
stream, you’re 100% of one thing : it will stop but NOT when you decide to
stop it.

But it wouldn’t be that hard to build a system that actually use a better
caching system and pretend to be live instead of trying to stream a live
content.

Listeners already grasped the idea of listening events which are not “live”
thanks to podcasts.

In fact what is streamed nowadays is mainly pre-recorded songs/stories. So the
notion of “live” is absolutely _not_ necessary unless you’re broadcasting
sports or once-in-a-lifetime events. And then TV / FM does a much better job.

That said, Shoutcast services are mainly non-live type of streams anyways.

So there is a great opportunity to buy the installed base of Shoutcast
creators and listeners and Winamp userbase (pro-anti itunes).

The main idea is you change the sofwtare to make it work even when there is no
internet connection.

A better caching system needs to be made on the device itself and on the
server side.

In terms of monetization, it’s easy: audio adverts have already proved
financial success.

It does work only because of their repetition AND their relation with the
audience.

The best example of audio adverts are the songs with high rotation counts:
they are the adverts of the big labels.

Here you got a system of dedicated listeners that you can target repetitively,
endlessly, fairly (you don’t have to stream blocks of minutes of adverts)

Audio ads on webcast radio start to catch up with Radionomy systems by
example.

AOL proved they couldn’t leverage that community. I don’t think Microsoft will
do any better job as their main focus will be “integrate”. A strategy that
rarely works.

Of course “a non-stop stream even without internet connection“ can happen
without buying Shoutcast & Winamp, but what a fantastic opportunity and
shortcut for those who can.

~~~
xtracto
Oh man, Shoutcast brings me fond memories. There used to be some very good
(albeit illegal) show providers like EveryShowSucks (ESS). The nice thing
about the shoutcast model, is that you could just tune into a channel and
consume whatever was available (knowing it was going to be good).

It is something that is not available in the Netflix-es, and Hulus of the
world (and something that Cable still has).

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sneak
I wonder if they're going to get the rights to Gnutella and W.A.S.T.E. in the
deal too.

~~~
masklinn
Not much rights to use, both projects have been living in the wild for a
decade.

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Drexl
Am I the only one that noticed the article that AOL declined to comment on is
by a company they own?... I find that rather humorous. AOL owns TechCrunch
according to TechCrunch themselves.

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xfax
I've got to say, never saw that coming. Good for the WinAmp team - better than
having to just shut down the business.

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pit
Remember all that fun we were having yesterday?

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benmorris
Step 1. Insert backdoor

