
The Tesla of Scooters Is Driving Asia's Two Wheel Revolution - craigjb
http://www.forbes.com/sites/aarontilley/2015/04/15/the-tesla-for-the-rest/?utm_campaign=ForbesTech&utm_source=TWITTER&utm_medium=social&utm_channel=Technology&linkId=13570682
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awjr
Within urban environments, electric bicycles need serious consideration. A
scooter does not provide you the flexibility that an ebike does. Yes they are
speed limited, however they are significantly cheaper.

My wife suffers from knee problems, so we're in the process of buying a pedal
assist+throttle ebike to enable her to get around the city of Bath. A moped
would not enable her to take advantage of the cycle paths in the area. She
would still need to mix with HGVs on the road.

It naturally needed a basket and the right colour :)
[http://www.juicybike.co.uk/electric-bikes/classic-click-
dutc...](http://www.juicybike.co.uk/electric-bikes/classic-click-dutch-style-
electric-bicycle)

Electric bikes have benefited massively from technology advancements in the
last couple of years and anyone looking at an electric scooter should
seriously consider an electric bicycle. It offers a lot more flexibility in
where you can go with it.

~~~
scrollaway
The biggest issue with electric bicycles for me is the fear of getting it
stolen. My current, mid-expensive bike is stressing me like hell whenever I
leave it out in the city for more than an hour, despite a big padlock. An
electric bike would be a more visible target and I don't think I could ever
actually leave it alone in good conscience.

Am I just paranoid or is this a real issue?

~~~
awjr
There are specific techniques for locking a bike up properly, but it does need
a d-lock and possibly also a cable. The idea being that your bike is the least
attractive to steal. [http://lifehacker.com/5942301/the-proper-way-to-lock-
your-bi...](http://lifehacker.com/5942301/the-proper-way-to-lock-your-bicycle)

~~~
scrollaway
Well that's my point. An e-bike would be a lot more attractive to steal.

~~~
seanp2k2
Yep; the nicer ones I've looked at are in the $2000-$4000 range, or roughly
double what normal "nice" road bikes cost. I'd probably feel safer with it in
a bike locker or in a coffee shop / work / train station by my side.

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furyg3
Electric scooters are becoming very popular here in Amsterdam, and I really
hope this gets more of the gas-powered scooters off the market.

Scooters here are mostly either used by delivery boys or as a luxury item
(since the bike lanes are so good). There is a decent amount of hostility
towards scooters from bikers since (right now) they often share the same
lanes; scooter riders are impatient, honk-y, often drive too fast and cause
accidents, and blast those they are passing with smog. There's a movement to
get them off the bike lanes and into traffic.

Scooters emit less CO2 per distance traveled than cars (and obviously much
less than bike riders!) but often much more smog causing pollutants that
affect air quality. Given that there is a really big push to improve air
quality in European city centers, electric scooters can make a big difference.
Plus gas-powered scooters are noisy as all hell, especially during peak food
delivery hours (since all delivery boys love zooming around on their toys
making as much noise as possible). I'm starting to see a lot of delivery
companies switching to electric scooters, and I'm hoping that this trend
either continues or that the government simply mandates these for commercial
operations within the city.

~~~
teekert
The scooters should be on the (car) road unless otherwise indicated in nl. The
noise can of course also be a nice indicator for a fast scooter approaching. A
Prius sneaking up on you from behind can be quite a shock sometimes.

~~~
IkmoIkmo
Nah, scooter is a wide ranging term. More specifically we have snorscooters,
bromscooters, and motorscooters. The motorscooter (actual term that exists,
though not popular) is just a regular motorcycle.

The snorscooter is limited to 25 km/h, but is manufactured generally at 30, up
to 45 km/h with artificial limitations on the engine which can be turned off.
(guess what happens). And these are allowed on bicycle paths.

Only the bromscooter and motorscooter, must go on the road.

So yeah cyclists do end up sharing their lanes with vehicles going up to 45,
while a bike in the city usually goes around 15. Particularly annoying is
cycling with a friend, and having to cycle in front of each other instead of
side by side every 30 seconds because something twice as fast wants to pass
you by.

I quite like the electric scooters in general as a consumer, a friend of mine
has one and I've tried it a few times and it's great. But generally I'm not a
fan of the concept. We've come a very long way here with cycling, spending 20
minutes going to your work, 20 minutes back, 10 to the grocery store and 10 to
a cafe in the evening, that's pretty much the daily required exercise you want
every human being to have. It's plays a huge, mostly unintentional, part in
our health. It's very safe, as we have lightweight, nimble, 15 km/h vehicles
on dedicated lanes. And it gives rise to a different form of city planning,
one where life is designed around a 30 minute cycling distance radius, as
opposed to what I experienced in the US (living & work & entertainment are
hugely separated. You have to do groceries by car, and go to work by car.) And
lastly, of course, the environmental factors of not just running motorised
vehicles (whether electric or fossil fuels), but also the manufacturing of
them.

So while I'd love to see motors go electric, particularly cars, I'm at the
same time concerned that the scooter versus the bicycle will become more
popular! :)

~~~
IanCal
> More specifically we have snorscooters, bromscooters ...

Not particularly on-topic but I couldn't help read this in the excited voice
of Gene Wilder.

"The snorscooters drive like snorscooters!"

"Who ever heard of a snorscooter?"

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams."

To be a little more helpful, if like me you don't know what these are, it
seems the bromscooter is the same as a snorscooter but without the 25km/h
speed limit (and are required to be on the roads with the driver wearing a
helmet). You may recognise these as just "scooters" in your own country or
"mopeds".

[http://www.scooterprijs.nl/Snorscooter.jpg](http://www.scooterprijs.nl/Snorscooter.jpg)

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sakri
Since the article didn't provide any pics of the bike :
[http://www.gogoro.com/](http://www.gogoro.com/)

This article reads like a sales pitch, Everything about it sounds so right. By
the end I was looking for the "invest now" button :D

~~~
JoeAltmaier
I can imagine my sister riding one of those, I guess. Not a design I'd ever
consider seriously riding.

~~~
freehunter
Hooray for sexism! "But _daaaaaad_ , that's a _girl 's_ bike!"

~~~
JoeAltmaier
So, you wear dresses and carry a purse? Really?

~~~
seanp2k2
Vehicles are definitely part of fashion for those who care and can afford it.

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netcan
I had a really interesting conversation with a couple of guys a few months ago
about cost of living. Cost of living is a really interesting entry point into
thinking about economics, policies, wealth and such. I really think our
decisions would be better if this was a bigger part of the economic debate
rather then the very abstract macroeconomics, political theory and abstract
ideological debates we have been carrying for so long. The role of technology,
policy and taste/choices is a lot easier to decipher. I think it's a lot more
productive way of structuring public debate/demands/protests.

Cost of living at the fat centre of the distribution for many/most households
in advanced economies looks something like like this:

    
    
      - Housing + utilities (25-50% of income)
      - Transport (10-20%)
      - Groceries (7.5-15%)
    

Housing is the big hairy item. It's dishearteningly competitive, so high
income places often have correspondingly high housing costs and the percentage
remains constant.

Anyway.. Transport.

Transport is a major cost item and it's quality is important. A fundamental
ingredient in most people and place's fundamental economic wellbeing equation.
It's also one of the most fixable with technology.

A 90 minutes commute on crowded public transport is way worse than a 10 minute
walk or drive. Transport infrastructure takes up a lot of space, affects air
quality, makes noise, affects walkability and lots of other key quality of
life issues. Energy. Time. Health. Money. Transport is a very big deal.

If you've seen cities that had major increases in cycling and/or electric
bikes/scooters, you were probably surprised by the success. There is a lot of
potential here.

10-20 mph electric bikes, given the right customs, rules and infrastructure
can be awesome in dense urban areas. Potentially game-changing over time.

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legulere
For the people not used to the imperial unit system:

125 cc is 125 cm³. 30 mph is around 50 km/h (the speed it reaches in 4.2
seconds). 60 mph is around 95 km/h (the max speed). 266 800 square-foot is 24
786 m². 20 miles are around 32 kilometers. 8900 square-foot is 826 m².

~~~
lmz
Is "cc" actually an imperial unit? I thought it stood for "cubic centimetres"
(also equiv to ml).

~~~
toyg
Yeah, I've seen "cc" used everywhere for "cubic centimeters" back in Italy.

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weitingliu
Gogoro has been making a lot of waves in Taiwan lately. A few Gogoro stores
have been showing up in Taipei and they feel very much like Apple stores!

The prospect of seeing an iconic company born out of Taiwan is exciting!

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haraball
A german competitor could be UNU Motors:
[https://unumotors.com/product](https://unumotors.com/product)

They solve the battery swap problem by letting you bring your battery inside
and charge it from normal wall outlets.

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robbiep
their battery system logo looks amazingly close to arduino:
[http://www.gogoro.com/smartscooter/Easier](http://www.gogoro.com/smartscooter/Easier)

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janekm
Electric scooters (not fancy design ones like this but rather pedestrian-
looking ones) are already completely ubiquitous in China, both for deliveries
(including for 20kg water jugs, it's a bit disconcerting seeing a moped with 4
or more of those on the back) and for a very unsafe short-distance unlicensed
taxi service for the last mile from the metro stop.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
I know for deliveries, they are used, but the short jaunt scooter taxis I see
in Beijing still seem to be mostly gas based (and of course, most all the
personal scooters are electric).

~~~
janekm
That's quite interesting as I have basically never seen a non-electric scooter
here in Shenzhen. Almost seems like there might be some local regulation
around that, but I have no idea.

Even Amazon use electric scooters for delivery here ;)

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de_Selby
> Riders won’t own the batteries. Instead, they’ll pay a low monthly fee to
> swap portable batteries as needed from a network of charging stations.

This is the key thing that electric cars need too - we need standardised
batteries which can be swapped out, then the charging time is irrelevant.

~~~
seanp2k2
Do EV/hybrid drivers thinking they're saving the planet consider the impact
from manufacturing / disposing of batteries? NiMh and lithium-based batteries
might not pollute locally, but mining / refining / manufacturing / shipping /
disposal happens somewhere (probably in Asia), as does power generation
(mostly from coal in the US).

I think a lot of the appeal of EVs / hybrids comes from the clean image, even
though these vehicles still _cause_ lots of pollution. It's the opposite
problem of diesel vehicles, which, though more fuel-efficient than their
equivalent gasoline-powered counterparts, emit a more opaque smoke, leading to
people thinking they're worse for the environment.

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freemanindia
The electric unicycle is the electric vehicle for the masses.

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a8da6b0c91d
The only reason anyone buys scooters, either electric or gas, in America is
they can usually be operated without a license and insurance. Otherwise they
make zero financial sense. They are _more_ expensive than 250cc gasoline
motorcycles that require very little maintenance, sip gasoline, and can go 65+
mph.

You can get a perfectly good small motorcycle for $2k. Dropping some multiple
of that for an electric scooter toy makes no sense.

~~~
seanp2k2
It does make sense when you can take them on bike paths, which are off-limits
to motorcycles and mostly to gas-powered scooters (like GoPeds, which can get
>100mpg). Lane-splitting is also amazing in California, where having your
motorcycle license lets you use the HOV lane and filter through traffic if the
lanes are wide enough to do it ~safely.

