
Walmart Joins Talks to Buy TikTok - vincentmarle
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/27/technology/walmart-tiktok-deal.html
======
rich_sasha
From the other thread:

Why is suddenly everyone so keen to buy TikTok? And why such bizarre buyers -
Microsoft, Oracle, now Walmart? None of these are companies I would associate
with a social media presence. Their business is generally the "boring" \-
office application, data munging, groceries.

Microsoft did buy LinkedIn and Skype, they don't seem in any way integrated in
what it does (in fact, doesn't Microsoft undercut its own Skype app with
Microsoft Teams?). And, this is opinion-based, but from a technical point of
view, they seem very inferior to comparable non-Microsoft products (Zoom,
Facebook etc.).

~~~
LegendZ3
The Chinese version of TikTok is very integrated with their own eCommerce
platform. A video creator can link in the video the cloth they are wearing,
the product they are using, or the hotel they are staying at. Also the live
stream part in the Chinese version is hugely successful with selling products
(think of it as QVC + Amazon). So I'm sure Walmart saw the potential as part
of of their eCommerce strategy for the younger generation.

~~~
btown
It's also important to note that TikTok is one of the first platforms where
_young people expect the platform to curate globally-trending content for
them._ This is a stark contrast to the algorithm-driven news feeds and hands-
off trending-sections of most other social media, and it opens the doors to
thinking about TikTok the way one would think about a traditional media and
advertising play, albeit one executed with significantly more sh$tposting.
MSFT, especially post-Ballmer, is full of smart and agile-minded and empowered
people who can understand this.

~~~
wrinkl3
I'm not sure I follow, isn't TikTok curated via algorithms as well? The
content you like influences the content you see next. How's that new?

~~~
nine_zeros
Whatever the curation algorithm in Tiktok is, it is so much better than
Youtube or Instagram. One actually feels that they are a part of a movement
bigger than themselves and something that is globally trending.

Tiktok is a revolutionary social media application. They did what twitter
couldn't do with vine.

------
mmastrac
The VCs and record labels must be madly trying to get their investment back
out of this. They poured money into musical.ly, bytedance and others, then
have been riding the wave up (and now down).

In July they bought out at least one SPV for a crazy valuation to consolidate
holdings, probably imagining that things would continue to rise. I think
they'll be lucky to get 1/4 of the cash they spent on that back, though
they've probably still 10X'd the cash they put in much earlier.

~~~
mythz
> The VCs and record labels must be madly trying to get their investment back
> out of this.

TikTok are suing the US Administration so they're not forced to sell their US
operations [1].

From what I can see TikTok have only had a recent 3B funding round on Softbank
(after becoming popular at 75B valuation) and could only find 1x 100M funding
round for musical.ly (at 500M valuation). Considering the expected sale price
for the US part of their business is circa 50B, even SoftBank are likely to
get many times return on their investment. Early investors must be due for an
insane return.

[https://newsroom.tiktok.com/en-au/tiktok-files-
lawsuit](https://newsroom.tiktok.com/en-au/tiktok-files-lawsuit)

------
paulpauper
It is remarkable how big these companies have gotten over the past few years.
Walmart is so big that it is extending beyond its retail business model and
going after social media, of all things. It reminds me of the AOL Time Warner
merger. Although unlike in 2000, I do not think that this portends to a market
top, a bubble, or that it will be a disaster.

~~~
sjg007
Amazon ?

~~~
sumtechguy
They already bought a platform like this, twitch.

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varbhat
Does "TikTok" here refer to worldwide or just USA only?

I also didn't understand how USA forced TikTok to sell the company it owned.

~~~
chomp
I believe it's the US-based operations, which includes USA, Australia, New
Zealand, and Canada.

The story of how the US can force them to sell is long, but it boils down to
some powers granted to the President that allow the office to freeze assets of
foreign people or groups if they're determined to be a threat to the American
economy or national security. It's useful in that it allows the US to freeze
assets for e.g. terrorist organizations, but also as we can see, can be abused
somewhat.

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actuator
Is Tiktok's userbase so loyal that they want to spend $50B on it, the app
effectively has no moat.

Why not just launch a competitor and pay content creators to post there, all
of these companies(including other FAANG group as well) have deep pockets and
engineering talent.

~~~
nxc18
Yes, users on TikTok are loyal, at the very least creators are. I haven't
heard of any creators, at least none that I follow, moving to Instagram's
competing offering.

I think there may also be a sense of broad injustice that makes people more
loyal to the offering. The President's actions have laid bare the reality that
this is just a smash and grab on behalf of US interests, and not based in any
actual national security concern, painting him and the US government as
dishonest and corrupt.

There are claims we did similar things in the Middle East, interfering under
false pretenses to get oil, and it turns out in 2020 that approach is
unpopular to the general public, even if it is 'in the US interest'.

~~~
actuator
But creators can always be enticed with money, after all isn't that why most
of them are there.

The way he is going about this is definitely thuggish, he would have probably
earned more fans by not forcing a sale and instead using alternatives to
stifle it.

~~~
throw_away
Microsoft tried the build-a-competitor-then-pay-creators approach with Mixer
vs Twitch and then shut it down less than a year later:
[https://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-closes-mixer-
partn...](https://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-closes-mixer-partners-
with-facebook-2020-6)

------
Firebrand
From TheWrap:

>But the proposed deal is being complicated by a split between ByteDance CEO
Zhang Yiming and General Atlantic and Sequoia Capital, two U.S.-based
ByteDance investors with long ties to the Trump administration and Republican
causes who both would like to see the sale happen. They approached Ellison to
buy TikTok and have reached out to the White House to close the deal,
according to two individuals with knowledge of the matter.

>However, Zhang is resisting any sale, the two individuals said, and did not
inform his investors before suing the White House on Monday to block any sale.
The insiders said Zhang is being advised by Silicon Valley billionaire Yuri
Milner, another early investor in Zhang’s company.

Apparently Zhang thinks he can still save his company. Maybe the $45 billion
will help change his mind.

[https://www.thewrap.com/oracle-nears-20-billion-tiktok-
deal-...](https://www.thewrap.com/oracle-nears-20-billion-tiktok-deal-with-
white-house-support-exclusive/)

------
neonate
[https://archive.is/AkiPz](https://archive.is/AkiPz)

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miguelmota
I would start using TikTok if I were greeted by a Walmart door greeter when I
open the app.

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yalogin
I don't understand why the ban on tiktok should be delayed for the acquisition
talks. The ban is imposed allegedly because its sending the data of US citizen
back to the CCP. Ok, that is still true today and so the ban should have been
in effect immediately if that is the reason. This jerking around is not a good
thing in a free capitalistic country like the US.

~~~
adrr
CCP could just buy the data from databrokers including DMV data for you
picture. All your data is up for sale including location data from you mobile
device. Can’t stop foreign governments from getting sensitive data about US
citizens unless privacy laws are enacted to prevent the sale of data.

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m3kw9
On the other hand Netflix passed on the deal when approached.

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wayanon
Isn't all this a sign that TikTok is dead?

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tibbydudeza
MySpace V2.

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kaycebasques
I'm going to use a political trigger word but please give this a moment to
consider because I found it fascinating when someone suggested it to me.

We hear a lot about the social/cultural aspects of fascism, but we don't talk
as much about the economics of fascism. Think about all this talk about
acquiring TikTok in the context of this definition:

> Fascism is an economic system in which the government controls the private
> entities that own the factors of production… A central planning authority
> directs company leaders to work in the national interest.

[https://www.thebalance.com/fascism-definition-examples-
pros-...](https://www.thebalance.com/fascism-definition-examples-pros-
cons-4145419)

~~~
UncleOxidant
"the government controls..." "A central planning authority directs..."

But sometimes isn't it the other way around with Fascism? ie corporate or
money interests have great influence over the government and influence it so
as to increase the power of the corporate influencer? It seems more like with
fascism it's hard to tell the difference between the government and the
moneyed interests (be they corporations, companies, extremely wealthy
individuals, etc.) because they're so intertwined.

~~~
dfxm12
It's certainly hard to tell with the current US administration, since the
government and moneyed interests are the same:
[https://www.citizen.org/article/corporatecabinet/](https://www.citizen.org/article/corporatecabinet/)

I do think the key here is that the government doesn't _have_ to cave to
moneyed interests, but a fascist leader _does_ (either because they're weak,
complicit or some other reason).

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boramalper
TSLA should buy it. /s

~~~
NotSammyHagar
SpaceX is the obviously better choice. Or even Elon just by himself! Ha,
imagine the headlines that would give! Probably Boeing would jump in to
compete. It's an insane world.

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zelly
Is the brand really that valuable? Because the app is not magical. With a few
million dollars you could replicate it top to bottom. Couldn't the US
government just ban it and help the new US-based competitor succeed? This is
what China would do if the roles were reversed.

~~~
colinmhayes
No chance tik tok could be replicated with a few million dollars, just look at
facebook's attempt. Tik Tok has very advanced ai behind it.

~~~
zelly
Eliminate TikTok from the US markets completely and watch how fast Facebook
and others would rush to improve it. The reason they haven't is those efforts
wouldn't be guaranteed to yield market share. That could change with a ban.
Also training data comes from usage, so saying they have the best AI is the
same as saying they're the market leader. That could change (artificially).

