
Experimental Drug Promises to Kill the Flu Virus in a Day - mkempe
https://www.wsj.com/articles/experimental-drug-promises-to-kill-the-flu-virus-in-a-day-1518264004
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djsumdog
Hopefully this is better than Tamiflu.

Years ago I was prescribed Tamiflu and man was it weird. Some of my flu
symptoms were greatly reduced, yes, but my brain felt like it was always on
edge. For people who have done hallucinogens, it was like that edge of being
about ready to trip, but never actually seeing visuals. It was not fun. I had
trouble sleeping and just wanted the medication to be over with.

I looked it up later and discovered it had some interesting brain interactions
and side-effects in line with what I experienced.

I'm up to date on my shots, but avoid the flu vaccine because ever time I've
tried it, it makes my arm hurt (if that's the injection point) for about 3
days. I thought I'd get a tolerance eventually, but never did. It's not as bad
as getting the flu, but it's still annoying enough I still avoid it.

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inferiorhuman
> It's not as bad as getting the flu

Arm soreness is nowhere near as bad as getting the flu, not even the same
ballpark. I get my jab annually and in exchange for those few days of soreness
I can't remember the last time I had the flu. No idea what the Tamiflu side
effects are like, they sound nasty -- unfortunately I've never had opportunity
to take it.

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cm2012
As someone who hates needles, I would gladly have the flu 10 times a year than
get one shot! But I work from home so I rarely get it or have the chance to be
contagious.

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S_A_P
I had the flu a few times as a kid. I didn’t ever think it was that bad. I had
the flu 2 years ago and I wasn’t right for a month. As you get older you
immune system weakens and 3-5 days of 102-103 fever is enough to make you
think you’re dying.

~~~
bitL
Maybe it was some stronger mutation? I had flu 2 years ago as well and it
knocked me down for a month and then took another 5 months to recover fully,
i.e. it kicked me back fitness-wise almost half a year. Still having some
minor sleep issues since.

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ggm
Tamiflu had a brief but exciting effect on the apparently otherwise stable
price of star anise. I kept the box I'd been issued during the h1n1 hong kong
scare ( I travel in Asia for work) well past its lifetime. Now it looks like a
feeble nineteen fifties failed anti radiation pill, something which might work
but nobody knows

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Animats
Shionogi has an impressive set of drugs coming along.[1]

[1]
[http://www.shionogi.co.jp/en/company/pmrltj0000000u4v-att/e_...](http://www.shionogi.co.jp/en/company/pmrltj0000000u4v-att/e_kaihatsu.pdf)

~~~
ekianjo
Not really. Looking at their list:

* Japan Phase III: 4 only. Know that these are totally on a different level as Global Phase III's, since you would require a bunch of additional studies with global clinical trials to secure a FDA approval or EU approval abroad. That's very costly and they don't follow the pattern of other companies that conduct Japan Phase III at the same time as global trials.

* They have mostly a lot of Phase I and II compounds, which have a low success rate anyway - Maybe one out of 10 will make it.

* the indications they target are not "white space" there's already a lot of competition out there, so this is going to make for small revenues for most of them if they ever come out.

* You can see that most of the drugs in development do not come from in-house efforts. Shire/Lilly/Roche, basically they rely a lot on their ability to partner with other companies because their own portfolio is really weak.

* They are very well known in Japan to be hungry to partner with other companies since they have no blockbuster in sight internally. That's why you find them co-promoting many competitors' drugs with their reps. They are doing that recently with a ADHD drug from Shire (Intuniv) but that's just one example, there are many others (Cymbalta with Lilly, etc...)

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lwhalen
I've said it before and I'll say it again: GODS I love living in the future! I
don't even care that I don't have a jetpack.

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otakucode
I don't feel like circumventing the WSJ paywall, so I haven't read the
article. But, I do know a bit about the flu virus. I'm annoyed they refer to
'killing' the virus since the virus isn't alive and its activity is not the
primary destructive issue. Over-reaction of our immune system is the vast
majority of what makes people feel sick and kills them. Cytokine storms cause
"flu like symptoms" and it's why so many diseases begin with them. It's not
cell damage caused by cells invaded with flu virus exploding into a spray of
new viral particles. That does little on its own.

For years, though, people have been working on a vaccine or similar which can
cause the immune system to target the virus itself rather than its 'shell'
which evolves quickly and plays little role in its harm (although it may play
a role in its infectivity since we see different levels of spread of different
strains who differ almost entirely in the structure of their capsid). That
doesn't sound like a 'pill that will kill the flu in a day' though. The only
thing I can imagine is that such a pill would be a immunosuppressant that
prevents the cytokine storm that makes you feel sick while (I would hope)
preserving enough immune function to actually eliminate the viral particles?

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mkstowegnv
Better non-paywalled article covering a larger set of new drugs
[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-08/flu-
relie...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-08/flu-relief-is-
coming-as-successors-to-aging-tamiflu-near-market)

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Arbiter41
extreme misuse and the virus will likely adapt around the drug.

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jimnotgym
Is this even true? I know bacteria adapt to resist anti-biotics, but this is
not the same thing at all.

IIUC this would be more like humans developing resistance to cyanide.

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yeukhon
Yes it is true. Influenza and HIV viruses’ mutate very quickly such that one
year’s vaccine may not work next year, hence why health professionals advocate
flu shot every year. Most vaccinations will last for life time though. CDC and
WHO analyze virus samples each year to determine virus mutation and antiviral
resistance.

Though it is cruical to note that although vaccine is effective, immunity may
not developed for a small percentage of population. But please don’t risk your
life - I highly suggest go for vaccination. Hong Kong has the worst outbreak
this year as the public has low awareness of flu shot, forcing primary school
students and below to go on holiday early. Hong Kong’s neighbor, Macu, with
high population density, has the highest vaccination participation - has much
fewer cases.

Lastly, please make sure you are getting quardrivalent flu vaccine (aka four-
flu shot) which covers all four types of flu; some years ago flu vaccines only
cover three types (it was a “gambling game”). In the US you shouldn’t have to
worry, but double check; outside of the Us please triple check...

[https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/viruses/change.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/viruses/change.htm)

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otakucode
The capsid that covers the harmful part of the flu virus mutates and is why
immunity does not transfer from year to year or strain to strain. The capsid
is only the outermost part of the viral particle, however. Anything which
targets the inner part would be far more effective. Researchers have been
working on getting to that part and are finally starting to get close. HIV is
a whole different ball of wax from flu, though, and I wouldn't discuss them in
the same way.

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yeukhon
I agree HIV is a whole different ball game, but I thought it was a good
(common) analogy. But you are right.

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_0ffh
I have a feeling that some people make it sound as if a flu was the end of the
world. (Get the shot! Triple check it's a four flu shot! Never go without!)

I never vaccinate and sometimes I get a flu. That means I'm mildly
uncomfortable for a few days, and that's it.

For an otherwise healthy person, the benefit of a flu shot is about as high as
the risks. Unless you're unhealthy, or in some other special risk group, flu
shots are not necessary. The risk of contracting a super-evil new mega-deadly
version of the flu is practically negligible, unless you live in a special
risk area.

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mikeash
If you’re “mildly uncomfortable for a few days” then you don’t have the flu.
And by not vaccinating, you’re putting others at risk who could die from it.

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wruza
Adults of my local area never vaccinate from flu. Asian flu breakthrough
killed few people last decade, but it had no treatment anyway. Seems that that
“risk” statement contradicts with reality at least in one region. Not saying
it is wrong in general, but something to think of.

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mikeash
What region is this where only a few people died from the flu in a decade? The
annual death toll in the US is tens of thousands, so I have a hard time
believing this.

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wruza
I’ll reply in detail later this day, but shallow research says that I must be
wrong. In short, 40% of Tatarstan adults are vaccinated (surprisingly; in
“private companies” we never ever speak about that, nor do it). Death count is
still unclear though, stats hard to find.

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carc1n0gen
Anicdote: in my teens I worked on a turkey egg production farm. Due to this it
was mandatory for me to get a flu shot. Every single time I had one, I would
vomit a few hours later and have other flu symptoms for a day or two.

Ever since leaving that job I haven't had the shot, and I've never had any flu
like illness

My dad hasn't had the shot in my life time yet. I don't know if he ever had it
before I was old enough to remember. He's now 52 and I can only recall two
times he ever had the flu

