
How to Murder a Byzantine Emperor - diodorus
http://www.medievalists.net/2017/06/murder-byzantine-emperor/
======
SonOfLilit
For all you people that expected something by Leslie Lamport, yesterday I
learned something very interesting:

Apparently, after the success of the Byzantine Generals paper, his Paxos paper
was written as the description of an ancient Greek democracy. Paxos is not
initials as I thought but the name of the island described in the paper. His
editor didn't like the humor and didn't publish, and the paper was only
published years later, after it reached some other researchers and had a lot
of impact on the field, in the guise of a "recently rediscovered ancient
manuscript".

[http://lamport.azurewebsites.net/pubs/pubs.html#lamport-
paxo...](http://lamport.azurewebsites.net/pubs/pubs.html#lamport-paxos)

~~~
mtanski
Actually, I was expecting a post by James Mickens.

~~~
agroot12
I logged in to post exactly this. How great would be a piece by Mickens with
that title?

For all HN readers that don't know Mickens yet:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6905536](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6905536)

~~~
skrebbel
And its link expired, but it's now here:
[https://www.usenix.org/system/files/login-
logout_1305_micken...](https://www.usenix.org/system/files/login-
logout_1305_mickens.pdf)

------
cfmcdonald
In a composition of some days, in a perusal of some hours, six hundred years
have rolled away, and the duration of a life or reign is contracted to a
fleeting moment: the grave is ever beside the throne: the success of a
criminal is almost instantly followed by the loss of his prize and our
immortal reason survives and disdains the sixty phantoms of kings who have
passed before our eyes, and faintly dwell on our remembrance. The observation
that, in every age and climate, ambition has prevailed with the same
commanding energy, may abate the surprise of a philosopher: but while he
condemns the vanity, he may search the motive, of this universal desire to
obtain and hold the sceptre of dominion.

...I shall not descant on the vulgar topics of the misery of kings; but I may
surely observe, that their condition, of all others, is the most pregnant with
fear, and the least susceptible of hope.

\-- Edward Gibbon, The Decline And Fall Of The Roman Empire

~~~
draw_down
Man, I can never understand stuff written like this.

~~~
cfmcdonald
My translation to casual modern English:

In just a few days of writing - a few hours of reading - six hundred years
have passed, and the life or reign of a king seems but an instant. Death is
ever present, and the criminal who seizes the throne immediately loses it.
From our remote position we look down on the rapid passing of sixty dead
kings, who together barely make an impression on us. We might be surprised at
their ambition for a throne that seems to bring nothing but death. But that
surprise is lessened by the fact that the ambitious turn up everywhere and
always. Nonetheless we might wonder why there is this constant desire to rule.

...I won't bore you with a long discussion of how miserable it is to be king,
but it's clear that they are pretty miserable.

------
hoytech
In Umberto Eco's "Baudolino" there's another darkly humorous account of a
murdered Byzantine emperor. In 1185, an adviser to emperor Andronicus
convinces him to kill Isaac Angelus ostensibly because of disloyalty but in
actuality to satisfy some personal grudge, but Isaac ends up fighting back,
becoming the new emperor and letting a mob brutally kill Andronicus. It's
unclear whether Isaac even planned to become the emperor in the first place.

------
Top19
As an interesting aside, Ottoman tradition forbade shedding the blood of kin,
so the usual route was strangulation of the emperor if he was a relative.

~~~
kirrent
Perhaps I misunderstand the history, but how is an Ottoman tradition relevant
to the Byzantines?

~~~
Top19
The overly simple answer is Romans-->Byzantines-->Ottomans.

Rome is at one point divided into two empires, West and East.

West Empire collapse, but East Empire keeps going with its capital at
Constantinople. East Empire becomes the Byzantine Empire now.

East Empire actually ALMOST reunites with the West, and Justinian's top
general, Belisarius, actually captures Rome in the mid 500's. He fails to hold
the Italian peninsula for a variety of reasons, and Western Europe slips away.

The Turkish Empire then begins rising around the 1300's, one of many many
trends driven by the Mongols and their invasions.

In the 1440s the Turkish Empire (the Ottomans basically), wipe out the
kingdoms of Eastern Europe. Eastern Europe actually has a really rich history
but unfortunately has had the thankless task of saving Europe over and over by
being a "bullet sponge" for the powers on either side.

In 1453 the Ottomans capture Constantinople and begin their empire.

By the 1800s the empire falls into disrepair, and is now regarded as the "sick
man of Europe". This is further compounded by choosing the wrong side in World
War I. At the end of the war the Ottoman empire is dissolved by various
treaties.

This leaves the remaining core of Turkey. Interestingly it also puts Iraq,
Iran, and Palestine into the hands of the British, beginning a long road to
the revolution in Iran, the various Israeli / Palestinian negotiations, and
eventually, the war in Iraq.

TL;DR: Basically you can trace the fall of the Roman empire in the 500's to
ISIS today somewhat simply.

~~~
kirrent
Sure, I understood that. My interest was that given the knowledge that the
Byzantines and Ottomans were enemies and then the Ottomans conquered the
entire region, what would be the relevance of an Ottoman tradition to
assassination of a Byzantine emperor? Was there some mixing of cultures at
some point to the extent that strangulation was adopted in Byzantium? Now that
I've re-read the great grand parent post, I assume that it was meant as an
aside about Ottoman emperors.

------
Illniyar
All the accounts seem to indicate the emperor's wife was involved or at least
somewhat to blame.

Wonder if this is the norm in kingly assassinations, a coincidence that they
were chosen or a tendency of ancient schoolers to ascribe bad events to women.

~~~
OwlsParliament
Blaming the wife/mother/Livia is an ancient Roman tradition, so I wouldn't be
surprised by the latter.

------
idoubtit
This is funny to read, but please take it with a grain of salt. For instance,
medievalist.net's story of Leo's murder is based on a single source, John
Skylitzes, who lived more than two centuries after the events (circa
1040-1100, when Leo's death was in 820).

Other historians have serious doubts on the veracity of this story. By
crossing with other sources, though none is as detailed as Skylitzes' romantic
prose, they try to distinguish the (probable) facts from the pure inventions
(and the reality-inspired inventions). See "The Conspiracy of Michael Traulos
and the Assassination of Leo V: History and Fiction", Dmitry Afinogenov, 2001
: the paranoia of King Leo seems more realistic than a conspiracy by Michael.

It's historians hard work to separate the fiction from the facts, and to learn
even from the fiction. One can try the same today: most modern media are less
emphatic than John Skylitzes, but they can't always be right and neutral. Yet
it's often very hard and time-consuming to find when a reporter stated a fact
and when he exaggerated or wrote what he wished or was told.

------
personjerry
Man this makes me want to play Crusader Kings II again

~~~
bmn__
Would be a _shame_ if something, ehhhh, untoward befell your liege? During his
routine walk on the balcony?

------
bjelkeman-again
It was interesting to see that the new emperors only seemed to be emperores
for a few years, six-seven. One wonders if they where murdered next.

~~~
dom0
_I, Fry, who drank Bont the Viscous, who drank Ungo the Moist, who guzzled
Zorn the Stagnant ... who slurped Hudge the Dewy, who enjoyed a soup composed
principally of Throm the Chunky, do solemnly swear to rule with honour and
insanity-- Uh, integrity!_

------
dozzie
With the help of traitor generals.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_fault_tolerance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_fault_tolerance)

~~~
joshfraser
Assuming more than 1/3 are traitors

------
readams
I was expecting something about distributed systems. Still interesting though

~~~
woliveirajr
Indeed, it would be the perfect title for such research, if there is a way to
to solve it.

------
Eliezer
These stories seem almost as implausible as those in the mainstream media, but
I'm starting to understand where the term "Byzantine" comes from.

------
muro
Related:

12 byzantine emperors is a great podcast.

~~~
cholantesh
It's...okay. I think Brownworth adopts way too much of a great man model that
oversimplifies the sweep of history. The podcast provides an OK outline, but
the History of Byzantium is far deeper and holistic. Robin captures a lot of
the drama of events like the Nika Revolt and the outbreak of the Justinian
Plague with aplomb too.

------
vadym909
For all you hungry people- Game of Thrones is back Jul 16th
[https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/04/arts/television/game-
of-t...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/04/arts/television/game-of-thrones-
is-back-heres-where-we-left-off.html)

~~~
Bulkington
Semi-related, and with all due props to GOT: Check out the first couple of
episodes of Michael Wood's The Story of China on PBS. The Westeros plotters
were pikers compared to the real history of Chinese dynasties.

[http://www.pbs.org/story-china/home/](http://www.pbs.org/story-china/home/)

------
tempodox
I would guess that getting murdered counts as “death by natural causes” in
that demographic.

------
woodandsteel
This is a nice correction for traditionalists who think modern world is a vast
decline from the past.

------
amatecha
I totally expected this to be a subtle viral marketing piece for Crusader
Kings II, haha ;)

