
Tonedeaf at the Top - whack
https://ethicsunwrapped.utexas.edu/tonedeaf-at-the-top
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hermitdev
While I like that the article points out that the likely reason for the
increase in the percentage CEOs gone is likely due to tightening of standards,
I disagree with their assessment that its due to the rise of the MeToo
movement.

Not downplaying MeToo, but the last several years have seen the likes of
several auto companies faking emissions test results, for example. Then,
you've also some major data breaches at big companies that have seen C level
execs shown the door (e.g. Equifax), which personally I'd label both of these
ethical violations and amoral, but for different reasons. Faking test results
to beat a teat you can't otherwise pass is, for what I hope, obvious reasons.
Failling to protect critical personally identifying information (PII) is a
dereliction of duty and has exposed over a hundred million US residents to
potential identity theft issues, in the case of Equifax.

From my observations, I think CEOs (outside of Entertainment industry) rarely
get taken down by harassment allegations, but usually for underperforming or
alleged fraud or other malfeasance.

I'm also not saying that it doesn't happen, but they usually have enough money
to "make it go away".

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rbavocadotree
The resignations and firings from the Equifax and Volkswagen scandals were not
in 2018.

Meanwhile, Demos Parneros, Paul Marciano, Steve Wynn and many others were
directly taken down by #MeToo in 2018.

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hermitdev
I never once mentioned explicitly 2018, and specifically said over recent
years.

Yes, some execs have been taken down by #MeToo, but I'd hazard a guess that
those that have are in the minority of ousted execs.

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temp99990
Hard to be surprised. I am nowhere near the top of any corporate ladder, but
having worked in several large well-known unicorns in SF I am more confident
than ever that it takes a certain person capable of playing political games,
pushing others down, taking credit for others work, etc. in order to climb the
ladder.

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skrebbel
I wonder whether this holds for people like Sundar Pichai or Satya Nadella,
both of whom have a pretty strong reputation as honest and "good" people
afaik.

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reallydontask
Good is a relative term specially when CEOs of multi billion dollar companies
are concerned, but you do raise a very interesting point.

I do wonder if there are truly good people as CEOs of big companies and but
truly good I mean people that would be recognised as such by most people that
have worked with them/for them

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0815test
Interestingly, there's been proposals to try and let the _market_ evaluate the
"goodness" of a CEO. It basically involves issuing futures on the company
stock which (1) only pay if the CEO is fired by date X, otherwise the futures
are unwound (bought back at market price); (2) only pay if the CEO is _not_
fired by that date, otherwise they are unwound in the same way. If the price
of the type-1 future is significantly higher than the price of the type-2
kind, the market is saying that your CEO is bad and by firing them you'll end
up with a better replacement.

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reallydontask
I think the term good was used in the sense of a good person, however you
choose to define it, rather than good for the company, which if I'm
understanding what you are saying correctly, is what these futures are about.

In any case, I'm not sure that the market is the best judge of what a good CEO
is, with its near constant fixation on the very short term.

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Noumenon72
Is this cyclic? When the economy is poor, most CEOs leave because the
company's doing poorly, when the economy is good, most CEOs leave for other
reasons.

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_pmf_
It's also cyclic because fewer women that the CEO has to interact with will be
hired.

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ve55
>Today, thanks to the #MeToo movement, that is not a viable strategy for
corporate boards

This is a strong assertion to make when no causal evidence has been put
fourth; it's trivial to think of a significant amount of alternative
explanations.

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austincheney
I really wish they would not intermingle _ethics_ and _morals_ as those terms
are not the same and are frequently contradictory.

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rudolfwinestock
The difference is only etymological. Both words mean "right conduct."

The word "morals" comes from Latin (mos, moris). The word "ethics" comes from
Greek. Since, for a long time, the liturgical language of the West was Latin,
we associate the word "morals" with religion, while we associate the word
"ethics" with secular philosophy. Manuals on moral theology in the Greek
Orthodox Church use the word "ethics" because that is their language.

In short, their connotations may be different, but their definitions are the
same.

~~~
austincheney
Not completely. Ancient Greece had _ethos_ and _logos_. The etymology of the
English _ethics_ derived from ethos but the definition is different.

* ethos describes character and conduct

* logos describes pleas and persuasive speech. This is the etymological root of the English _legal_.

Ethics does deal with moral character and is a branch of moral philosophy but
is more specific than mere right vs wrong as the word itself is more concerned
with practical application. Ethics is typically concerned with decisions and
alignment to rules or codes of conduct. In this way ethics has the most value
in a legal and reputational contexts. It is safe to think of ethics as an
alignment to rules that may be explicitly stated or commonly accepted.

Morals on the other hand are a broad term concerning right and wrong in
accordance with societal norms and a personal value system.

These terms can be at odds when a person is asked to follow rules whose
violation bears legal consequence but such conduct defies their personal
values, such as: loyalty, confidentiality, or religious canons.

Sources

* ethos - [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethos](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethos)

* logos - [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logos](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logos)

* ethics - [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics)

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rootw0rm
Pretty great comment, thanks for taking the time to write it.

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cbsmith
Interesting... I thought this was about the isolation of the folks at the top
from the rest of the organization. Instead it was just about morals, which,
yeah... You can have great morals and yet still be tone deaf.

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netcan
_in 2018, 39% left due to ethical violations_

This seems like an incredible number. If the number one reason for bus drivers
or real estate agents leaving the job was "ethical violations," it'd be some
sort of moral crisis.

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privong
Title is missing the trailing digit, should be "in 2018".

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labster
Either that or Imperial Rome was even less virtuous than I thought.

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jdoliner
This is the correct answer right here.

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iconjack
Red McCombs is turning in his grave.

