
Teens' anxiety levels dropped during pandemic, study finds - dependenttypes
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53884401
======
emerongi
My opinion on school, coming from someone living in Europe:

\- Homework should be abolished

\- School should start at a reasonable time. In my opinion, 8AM is too early.
Kids that live far away have to wake up at 6AM, which is not a normal time
judging by when kids wake up during summer break (9-10AM). 9AM would be
acceptable. Not sure how much it would affect teachers' lives though.

\- Kids should be made aware of the psychological help they can receive if
they have personal issues. We had a psychologist at school, but I don't think
anyone consulted them.

\- Kids should be taught practical life skills over random trivia. Housework
(fixing things, cleaning etc), finance, time management, how to actually
learn/study effectively, mental health awareness, working out with correct
technique and not ruining your body, how to eat healthily are all things that
I value more than knowing the intricate details of how the European Union came
to be (knowing history is useful and interesting, but I'd have rather spent
that time on the aforementioned things). Of course, a lot of kids are going to
complain many things in this list are boring, but they will value them once
they grow older. PE in my school didn't teach any theory, which is just stupid
looking back. Our body is with us for the rest of our lives, we should have
the knowledge of how to take care of it.

Also, certain degree of freedom is something that everyone wants and values in
their life. It would probably be expensive and hard, but if possible, I'd try
to give kids a way to choose a small part of their study path.

~~~
maccard
Also living in europe:

> Kids should be taught practical life skills over random trivia.

This is parenting vs schooling, ignoring the fact that many schools are really
glorifed babysitting services.

And more importantly, history isn't "random trivia". While the merits of a
degree in history may be debatable, if the majority of the UK had a passable
knowledge in why the EU exists, and what the UK did to become an empire, the
attitude towards integration with the EU would likely be very different.

> PE in my school didn't teach any theory, which is just stupid looking back.

PE is the bare minimum amount of exercise and movement a child could have
without being considered "entirely sedantry". For many kids it's the _only_
exercise they get.

~~~
rhn_mk1
> history isn't "random trivia"

The discipline isn't, but the way at least I've been taught it unfortunately
is... It didn't take me until I graduated to take an interest in history, when
I could learn the cause and effect chains without getting distracted by rote
memorization.

~~~
jimcsharp
Do you think what makes you interested in [topic] now would've been relevant
when you were a child?

If I'm being honest with myself, my answer is probably no. "If only they
taught _" for me, can be boiled down to "If only I was 30 in grade school"

~~~
wtetzner
Even so, I'm not sure it's useful for kids to memorize names and dates, as
opposed to events and their impact.

~~~
sandworm101
The dates are important if the kids are to draw their own understanding of
history. They can be told that X caused Y and just accept that the X came
before Y, or they can learn the dates well enough to examine the situation
themselves.

For instance: How long was WWII? How long was Vietnam? When exactly did WWII
start, before or after US involvement? Knowing those sorts of dates allows
students to put today's wars into context. Has the US been in Iraq longer than
WWII? Longer than Vietnam? They can memorize the dates and answer those
questions themselves. That makes them informed citizens, and some of them
eventual informed _soldiers_ , better able to participate in very relevant
current events.

~~~
marcosdumay
You know what would be useful? Take all those events and ask the children to
put them in a time-line. Let them search any book they need in the process.

You know what is completely useless? Telling the date each happened on their
respective classes, and that this knowledge will be tested.

~~~
pgwhalen
I disagree that it is completely useless. You're basically arguing that time
is only useful as a relative measure, not an absolute one. While that is true
in some sense (the ordering of events and the space between them is what
matters), because history is so vast and interconnected and a total ordering
is desirable, it just makes more practical sense to learn the absolute date of
an event, not just the "relative" date

------
nvarsj
It's not really surprising to anyone I think. School is hell for lots of
teenagers. You're forced into a prison like setting with strict rules and
little freedom, and you're forced to interact with a huge number of immature
people of similar age - of whom the chances are a few will make your life
hell, and you have no choice in getting away from it.

I would have been 100% happier as a kid if I could have simply done my
education on my own or virtually, and spent my time with people I actually
enjoyed the company of. Sort of what it's like to be an adult actually. The
modern school system is such a terrible model.

~~~
snarf21
I agree that school is challenging for kids. However, isn't _work_ also "a
prison like setting with strict rules and little freedom, and you're forced to
interact with a huge number of immature people of similar age"? I agree we
need school reforms but kids also crave schedule and interaction. I'm not sure
how they get those while their parents are away at work. We can argue about
what the perfect interactions are for kids. People can also decide to do home
schooling if they don't like the existing systems. In the end, life is
complicated and anxiety inducing. We all need these life skills to deal with
these stresses. I think we need more classes _specifically_ around teaching
coping skills and learning how to interact with others. I think that will be
more beneficial than kids just staying in their bedrooms everyday.

~~~
Falling3
> However, isn't work also "a prison like setting

I've never worked anywhere that I needed permission to use the bathroom.

~~~
cmrdporcupine
You're lucky. Most of us have, at some point.

~~~
Falling3
"Most of us"? Really? I absolutely acknowledge that some jobs do this as other
commenters have noted. But "most" sounds like an extreme stretch. I've he;d
plenty of low-paying, manual labor jobs and never even heard of the practice
until the last few years. It's the overwhelming norm at schools and - as far
as I've seen - fairly exceptional at a job.

~~~
cmrdporcupine
You think you can just take a bathroom break every time you like when you're
working retail? Most people I know have worked a retail job or service
industry job where they have assigned break periods, and bathroom usage
outside of those would be impossible, or very frowned upon.

I guess some people in this industry had parents with enough money to avoid
ever having to do a non-tech industry job? That would surprise me.

Some manual or skilled labour jobs would permit random breaks, I guess. But
most people I know worked service industry. You don't get to just leave a cash
register unattended because your bladder says to.

~~~
Falling3
My original comment certainly didn't have much nuance in it, but I would
certainly draw a distinction between a reasonable need to schedule bathroom
breaks around job duties and the need to raise one's hand and ask someone's
permission, which they can arbitrarily deny.

------
majkinetor
Ofc it does.

During the NATO bombing of Serbia 20+ years ago, for us, teens, life was never
better - no school, no work, parents worrying about basic stuff (i.e. not us)
- just plenty of outside socializing and random activity. Everybody remembers
that as good old times :)

I can imagine the same to be true now, not to that extent.

~~~
read_if_gay_
Well, there’s not exactly plenty of socializing and activity right now.

~~~
war1025
You'd be surprised.

My general feeling (which includes my own family's behavior) is that people
have returned to hanging out with whoever they used to. They just don't go to
restaurants or other social settings to do it.

There aren't "organized" activities, but I see kids out playing on my street
every single evening.

Honestly it's refreshing to see kids behaving organically for once instead of
their parents shuttling them from one activity to the next.

~~~
read_if_gay_
True. Things have gotten better, but for a few months nothing really happened
at all, at least where I live. I don’t think that was a good time except for
those kids that spend all their time playing videogames anyway, which would’ve
included me when I was in school, but not most people.

~~~
war1025
> for a few months nothing really happened at all, at least where I live.

I suppose the impact probably also depends on age and the number of siblings.

We've got three that are two years apart and preschool aged. They were able to
entertain each other pretty well through it all.

I could see it being a much bigger issue for only children or kids that have a
bigger age gap between them.

------
Aerroon
As a teenager I liked being sick, because it allowed me to stay home from
school and gave an exemption from PE classes for a week or two. Feeling awful
physically seemed like a small price to pay for that.

It doesn't at all surprise me that teenagers feel better when they don't have
to go to school.

------
mschuster91
It's only surprising for old people who have been unwilling to listen to
complaints of school children for _years_ now.

The list of problems that schools face (overcrowding, parental pressure,
curricula packed with superfluous stuff no one will ever need again, curricula
not even close to incorporating modern technology, buildings obviously in
disrepair, way too early start times) is long, and it hasn't shrunk for years
now.

~~~
konjin
At this point we might as well admit that schools are daycare for teens. And
universities are daycare for adolescents. So lets cut the bullshit and focus
on what matters, keeping kids occupied and keeping them from killing
themselves.

I suggest medically induced commas for 8 hours a day. It's quite a safe
technology with minimal long term negative effects.

~~~
mschuster91
> At this point we might as well admit that schools are daycare for teens. And
> universities are daycare for adolescents. So lets cut the bullshit and focus
> on what matters, keeping kids occupied and keeping them from killing
> themselves.

You're getting downvoted for the coma comment, but this here is spot on. When
the schools got locked down because of the 'rona, the most pressing problem
for parents was that they had no place to put their kid into or a way to care
for the kids themselves because rents these days require that both parents
work...

~~~
konjin
>You're getting downvoted for the coma comment

It was just a modest proposal.

------
Solstinox
In the 1980s they built a biodome out in the middle of the desert and planted
trees inside of it. The trees would grow faster than anticipated and then come
crashing down. Turns out without the stressor of wind, trees look happier, at
first, but do not build the strong stress wood needed to support their natural
height.

~~~
scornflakes
Framing anxiety as the wind in this analogy, I'd say the _unnatural_ amount of
social concerns we impose on children---and people as a whole---is more like
growing trees in a wind tunnel.

Yeah, anxiety is a natural response. And we've developed biological mechanisms
to adapt to it. But the application of anxiety has changed _so much_ in just
the last few centuries. Anxiety sources have proliferated. Beyond food and
shelter, we have anxieties about grades, waking up early, approval from peers,
et cetera. This compounds, especially if you come from a family that struggles
to even provide food and shelter. Children are also then told they live in a
meritocracy and therefore should internalize their shortcomings and bad marks.

I digress, but I don't think we can appeal to nature and argue our current
situation as natural. We can be doing better.

~~~
Solstinox
Interesting! Thanks for the perspective!

------
whywhywhywhy
Struggle to think of something more cruel and with less value you could
legally subject children to than public schooling. If one good thing comes out
of 2020 it will hopefully be a mass realisation that you shouldn't be
entrusting your child's future to these people.

If the whole of schooling can be replaced by a few videocalls during 2020,
what value was it ever really providing.

~~~
waterhouse
It will be fascinating to see the studies years from now. Comparing things
like people who graduated in 2019 vs those who graduated in 2020 (a few months
of school disrupted) vs 2021 (more than a year of school disrupted). There may
be difficult confounders to deal with, like "the economy also changed a lot
due to the pandemic", so it's hard to compare across years; "having already
found a job before the pandemic" would also be significant, so it's hard to
compare differently-aged people during the same year.

The best would be something like comparing people from different U.S. states
or cities that are roughly similar, but one city shut down school much longer
than the other. (Perhaps even comparing schools, although "whether a school
decided to err on the side of staying shut down" probably correlates with
something that would affect kids' performance.)

Anyway, let me pre-register my prediction that, if good studies can be done,
they will show that kids who were forced to miss a year of school (or in-
person school, at least) will not have been measurably negatively impacted by
it.

------
rainyMammoth
I realized a long time ago that school is really organized babysitting so that
Adults can go over their day without worrying about their kids.

High school was hell for me. I guess a point can be made that it makes you
learn life the hard way.

------
ycombinete
I've known very few teenagers who wouldn't prefer statying at home, to going
to school. School is hard for so many reasons.

I'm not sure that makes it unecessary, or bad.

------
throwaway77384
As a kid I literally preferred being hospitalised for weeks on end to school.

As bizarre as that may sound, hospital was like a refuge for me.

And school wasn't even that bad.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
In which country were you in hospital? Did you have tutoring, or work sent
from school teachers?

------
baby
The only reason I got through highschool is that I realized that nothing would
happen if I skipped classes. From then on, I would wake up in the morning,
pretend I would go to class, go to the Virgin megastore instead and read manga
all day. Of course I would still go to exams, and of course they ended up
calling my parents a number of times, but it worked out in the end. I passed
the exams, and I went to uni.

------
gowld
> Rebecca from Cardiff, who has a son aged 14 with Asperger's Syndrome and a
> 12-year-old boy who is also on the autism spectrum, said both children were
> happy before but the drop in their stress levels has been "unbelievable".

This is a common anecdote. Aspies report being more comfortable and less
bullied at virtual school vs physical school.

------
gridlockd
I used to be rather anxious during some of my school years, dreading all the
social interactions I would be forced into, with people that I did not want to
be part of my life. I think that's normal and perhaps a necessary part of
human development. I'm fine now, at least.

~~~
refurb
I agree it’s an uncomfortable, but necessary part of human development.

One of the worst things you can do for your mental health is _avoid_
uncomfortable feelings. All that usually accomplishes is making those feelings
even worse.

That’s why exposure therapy is such a big part in dealing with phobias and
anxiety. It’s counter intuitive, but being stressed and anxious (within
reason) helps you develop coping mechanisms that come in really handy in life.

~~~
waterhouse
Wiki: "Exposure therapy is based on the principle of respondent conditioning
often termed Pavlovian extinction.[16] The exposure therapist identifies the
cognitions, emotions and physiological arousal that accompany a fear-inducing
stimulus and then tries to break the pattern of escape that maintains the
fear. This is done by exposing the patient to progressively stronger fear-
inducing stimuli.[17] Fear is minimized at each of a series of steadily
escalating steps or challenges (a hierarchy), which can be explicit ("static")
or implicit ("dynamic" — see Method of Factors) until the fear is finally
gone.[18] The patient is able to terminate the procedure at any time."

I think there are some key differences between the above and what school
permits.

------
jedberg
A lot of folks in here are pointing out that this makes sense because the kids
get to wake up later.

We'll soon have some real data on this. California passed a law last year that
requires high school start after 8:30 am. Schools have until the 2022 school
year to implement the law, which means we'll have a natural case study as
different schools implement it this year (once we return to in person school)
and next year and the year after.

------
techaddicted
That was to be expected. Less stress in school, less bullying and so on.
Interestingly, my anxiety has risen dramatically during the pandemic, because
of the fear of job loss.

------
jppope
Public School is bad for kids. The question is how do we fix the problem.

...Worth noting there were no school shootings for the first time in decades
in March ([https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-first-march-
without...](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-first-march-without-
school-shooting-since-2002-united-states/))

------
runawaybottle
I wonder if we can measure anxiety vs self reporting. That would be a wild
study to give everyone a band that tracks heartbeat and hopefully one other
obvious measurable symptom of anxiety and just see the large scale data of how
certain jobs/school etc cause outsized amount of anxiety (with mostly
undeniable measured data).

------
jmiskovic
Babysitting children is a huge value for society, and it's how schools were
formed in the first place. Video schooling had limited success in teaching
grade material, but I feel it was mostly put in place to maintain continuity
and upkeep pupils' habits.

Maybe now's the right time to talk on how to improve public schooling, or what
to replace it with.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
>and it's how schools were formed in the first place //

I'd be pretty sure that wasn't true. If you're thinking towards our tribal
ancestors then I'd expect that children would be brought on with skills and
work as quickly as possible in order to strengthen the tribe.

The oldest school establishments in the UK - from Late Antiquity/Early Middle
Ages - certainly weren't for "babysitting" (ie provision of nutrition and as
much care as needed to prevent injury).

------
whalesalad
I can only imagine how awesome it is to be a teenager right now. You have a
natural advantage against the virus due to your age, and you/your buds don't
need to attend school. Fire up the Xbox and grab your Mtn Dew boys it's time
to drop into Verdansk.

------
pjdemers
Sitting around the house playing video games and watching netflix all day
makes teenagers happier than going to school, getting some exercise and having
a job? What a revelation.

------
everdrive
This shouldn't be too surprising.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avP8IyKw5_w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avP8IyKw5_w)

------
vepolek
Anyone interested in this should definitely read John Taylor Gatto. His book
'Dumbing Us Down' gives a good overview about how school influences children.

------
pwinnski
Wow, the claim that increases in teen suicide would be greater than COVID-19
deaths looks even more silly now than it did then, which was already pretty
silly.

~~~
stateofnounion
Did you even read the study? Risk of depression was not affected and suicide
wasn't even a factor that was considered.

> Compared to pre-pandemic, there was an overall decrease in risk of anxiety,
> and an increase in wellbeing but no large change in risk of depression

[https://sphr.nihr.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Young-
Peo...](https://sphr.nihr.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Young-Peoples-
Mental-Health-during-the-COVID-19-Pandemic-Report.pdf)

Also, for all of the extremely attentive readers like pwinnski out there, I'm
sure they've already come across research on increased rates of suicide due to
economic despair [https://wellbeingtrust.org/areas-of-focus/policy-and-
advocac...](https://wellbeingtrust.org/areas-of-focus/policy-and-
advocacy/reports/projected-deaths-of-despair-during-covid-19/)

~~~
pwinnski
The projection of increased suicide in that study is based primarily on
unemployment rate, but unemployment in 2020 is considerably different from
unemployment in 2018 (the year they used as a baseline) due to unusual federal
benefits that left as many as 68% earning more while unemployed than they did
while working[0]. Actual suicide rates do to seem yet to be climbing as
predicted, although it will take some time to see what the actual deleterious
events turn out to be.

[0] up to 68% [https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/many-americans-are-
gett...](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/many-americans-are-getting-more-
money-from-unemployment-than-they-were-from-their-jobs/) or 47%
[https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/47-percent-will-
mak...](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/47-percent-will-make-more-
money-collecting-unemployment-than-working-301037896.html)
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanguina/2020/04/28/some-
earni...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanguina/2020/04/28/some-earning-more-
money-on-unemployment-than-while-working/#5e9848696095)

------
k__
Mine too.

Now I can always say "can't come, better safe than sorry!" and nobody bats an
eye.

Before, it was always frowned upon if I didn't want to meet someone.

------
reportgunner
Who is paying for these studies ? Are we going to find out that the sky is
blue too based on 1000 pictures from south west England too ?

------
x87678r
My daughter wasn't anxious but lonely and depressed. Would have been great to
get stats on that.

------
pm24601
In other news, parents stress goes up dramatically and teacher stress rises.

Thus it is proven that:

1\. The total sum of stress is an invariant

2\. teachers are a parental stress sink

------
powerapple
my own anxiety level has dropped during pandemic as well :)

------
ElectronEsq
This is a misleading headline by the BBC.

The study is for anxiety of school, not anxiety in general. Now that people
are at home, of course they are going to be less anxious of schooling.

Quote:

“With children and young people having been out of the classroom for so long,
and with many students in this study seeing improvements in mental health and
wellbeing during that time, the case to address issues weighing on their
quality of life at school is stronger than ever.”

[https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/anxiety-
in...](https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/anxiety-in-young-
teens-dropped-during-lockdown-bristol-university-study-reveals-1/)

~~~
boomlinde
That quote doesn't corroborate your conclusion. I suppose it could be
misinterpreted, and a better phrasing would be something like this:

"With children and young people having been out of the classroom for so long,
and with many students in this study seeing improvements in mental health and
wellbeing during that time, the case to address issues at school weighing on
their quality of life is stronger than ever."

When in doubt, consult the primary source: [https://sphr.nihr.ac.uk/wp-
content/uploads/2020/08/Young-Peo...](https://sphr.nihr.ac.uk/wp-
content/uploads/2020/08/Young-Peoples-Mental-Health-during-the-
COVID-19-Pandemic-Report.pdf)

Quote: "Compared to pre-pandemic, there was an overall decrease in risk of
anxiety, and an increase in wellbeing but no large change in risk of
depression"

