
Project MKUltra - rasengan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra
======
Synaesthesia
Also relevant, “The CIA’s Secret History of Psychological Torture.”

[https://www.salon.com/2009/06/11/mccoy/](https://www.salon.com/2009/06/11/mccoy/)

> Canadian psychologist Donald Hebb found that he could induce a state akin to
> drug-induced hallucinations and psychosis in just 48 hours -- without drugs,
> hypnosis or electric shock. Instead, for two days student volunteers at
> McGill University simply sat in a comfortable cubicle deprived of sensory
> stimulation by goggles, gloves and earmuffs. "It scared the hell out of us,"
> Hebb said later, "to see how completely dependent the mind is on a close
> connection with the ordinary sensory environment, and how disorganizing to
> be cut off from that support."

>During the 1950s, two neurologists at Cornell Medical Center, under CIA
contract, found that the most devastating torture technique of the Soviet
secret police, the KGB, was simply to force a victim to stand for days while
the legs swelled, the skin erupted in suppurating lesions, and hallucinations
began -- a procedure which we now politely refer to as "stress positions."

~~~
jacquesm
Still used today at Guantanamo bay.

~~~
ncmncm
And no one prosecuted for it, to date.

------
carapace
I'm an old-school fringe aficionado. I wish I could express to you how _weird_
it feels that, first, MKUltra turned out to be real, and second, knowledge of
it is going mainstream.

It is fucking _fascinating_ watching y'all go through the psychic gyrations
induce by confrontation with this knowledge. And this is just the tip of the
iceberg.

Welcome to the flip side my friends. Pull up a lawn chair and pop some
popcorn, everything you know is wrong, and things only get stranger from here
on out. Just remember, if you see strange lights in the sky _run like hell_.

(Or just close the tab, click away, lower the curtain and forget the strange
little man you saw, the Wizard of Oz is talking. He is so important and
powerful you know.)

~~~
NotSammyHagar
Please explain. Hurting our fellow human being by torturing them in different
ways like 'stress positions' as discussed on around this article is pretty
different than mystical space ships coming. Yes, the us gave lsd to people to
see what would happen. It's terrible. Also the us kidnapped teenagers all of
the world who were accused of being terrorists and tortured them in black
prisons, on my behalf, and I hate that. So what is the next step you forsee
happening know that more people know about this?

~~~
carapace
This used to be in the same category as bigfoot and UFOs, now it's written up
in major media. For a lot of people that makes it harder to dismiss which
leads to serious "cognitive dissonance". That's what I find fascinating to
watch: society going through the process that I went through as an individual
to come to terms with what happened.

If cognitive dissonance happens on a wide enough scale to enough people
simultaneously _all kinds_ of weird stuff can happen. As the mind recalculates
and recalibrates belief systems _new information_ has a chance to take hold.
(E.g. the Reformation; or the founding of USA, there are more new religions in
the US than the rest of the world combined.)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformation)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_movements_th...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_movements_that_began_in_the_United_States))

I have no idea what will happen from this particular revelation.

~~~
LargoLasskhyfv
Sigh. Why do you mention religion? _That_ is the largest disinformation of all
to me. No matter which.

By that i don't even mean to disregard anything supernatural, spiritual, or
whatever is above our _current_ understanding of the ways in which nature
works.

I just feel that any organized religion is a form of totalitarian gatekeeping.

Imagine for example some dystopic society where for whatever reason there is
only one fast food provider with a limited menu available. While fruits and
berries do exist outside of the walled ghettos, but nobody dares to go there,
because FORBIDDEN.

 _That_ is what every religion, church, sect, cult is to me. Some asshole
saying _this is_ and countless drones repeating it for all eternity, which is
not making it so, just an annoying loud drone instead.

Call it memetic pollution.

~~~
carapace
Ah my lad, come to Church

[http://subgenius.com/](http://subgenius.com/)

~~~
LargoLasskhyfv
I'd rather not.

[1]
[https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-UOnDNNJlRUo/VIBMCIzyr6I/AAAAAAAAO...](https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-UOnDNNJlRUo/VIBMCIzyr6I/AAAAAAAAOGE/4tLadXdI7mQ/s1600/shakti_excess.png)

~~~
carapace
Suit yourself.

[1] I don't know what that is.

------
Synaesthesia
Terrifying stuff including torture with psychedelics, and attempts at “mind
control”

>In addition to LSD, Cameron also experimented with various paralytic drugs as
well as electroconvulsive therapy at thirty to forty times the normal power.
His "driving" experiments consisted of putting subjects into drug-induced
comas for weeks at a time (up to three months in one case) while playing tape
loops of noise or simple repetitive statements. His experiments were often
carried on patients who entered the institute for minor problems such as
anxiety disorders and postpartum depression, many of whom suffered permanent
effects from his actions.

~~~
jacquesm
Was this person put on trial for those crimes?

~~~
naringas
you must be joking, what crimes? /s

they probably payed him a big bonus and set about incorporating his results
into standarized procedures to be used against "enemies of the state"

he apparently served as president for several Psychiatric Associations.. yikes

------
Iv
> Ted Kaczynski, a domestic terrorist known as the Unabomber, was said to be a
> subject of a voluntary psychological study alleged by some sources to have
> been a part of MKUltra.[95][96][97] As a sophomore at Harvard, Kaczynski
> participated in a study described by author Alton Chase as a "purposely
> brutalizing psychological experiment", led by Harvard psychologist Henry
> Murray.[98][99] In total, Kaczynski spent 200 hours as part of the
> study.[100]

~~~
soufron
I teach about Ted Kaczynski in my course at Sciences-Po in Paris. Do you have
more info on that? I'll guess I'll find out easily by myself, but if you like
the topic you might have good clues about where to go.

~~~
mistermann
You'll have to sort through some chaff, but most of the most compelling
evidence can almost surely be found here:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/search?q=mkultra&restric...](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/search?q=mkultra&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/search?q=Kaczynski&restr...](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/search?q=Kaczynski&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all)

I think it's a cosmic shame most people seem unable to consider conspiracy
theories ("It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a
thought without accepting it"), especially since most everyone seems to
believe in many conspiracies, the only difference being they're covered in the
MSM rather than discussed in online forums. I imagine this is due to
conditioning to some degree, so I guess one shouldn't cast too much blame.

------
CapitalistCartr
Relevant stuff:

How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20893452](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20893452)

1951 Pont-Saint-Esprit mass poisoning - Wikipedia

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Pont-Saint-
Esprit_mass_...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Pont-Saint-
Esprit_mass_poisoning)

'Poisoner In Chief' Details The CIA's Secret Quest For Mind Control : NPR

[https://www.npr.org/2019/09/09/758989641/the-cias-secret-
que...](https://www.npr.org/2019/09/09/758989641/the-cias-secret-quest-for-
mind-control-torture-lsd-and-a-poisoner-in-chief)

------
TaylorAlexander
Such a disgraceful project and I’m sure we only know the half of it.

I recently heard a good long form interview with an author who spent 20 years
studying Charles Manson’s connection to this program. It’s pretty shocking:

[https://soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/bonus-interview-
tom-...](https://soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/bonus-interview-tom-oneill-
and-chaos)

------
xigency
It's also worth watching Wormwood [0], where Eric Olson investigates the death
of his father, Frank Olson.

[0]
[https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7306056/](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7306056/)

------
spraak
It makes me wonder what projects are happening now, or recently that are not
yet known.

~~~
cerealbad
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S051A8doXP0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S051A8doXP0)
(mind control)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m6dldvNECI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m6dldvNECI)
(heart attack gun)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVF8YGFcJWU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVF8YGFcJWU)
(electronic weapons)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT9-Z_p84b0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT9-Z_p84b0)
(active denial system)

it's not hard to find out since it's all public domain. the discovery is a
trivial search away, and there are a lot of threads you can start pulling on
which eventually leads to to books written by pseudo-credible people with some
alphabet intelligence agency background.

here's the catch, verification is nearly impossible. what is a prototype, what
is in production, what is just a rough sketch idea of something that was never
implemented, what is wild fantasy. in the game of secrecy and asymmetric
information, it pays to be deceptive and ambiguous. to the point most of the
people publicly discussing these topics are they themselves compromised and
largely act as misdirection.

you are not need to know.

~~~
bcaa7f3a8bbc
> _here 's the catch, verification is nearly impossible. what is a prototype,
> what is in production, what is just a rough sketch idea of something that
> was never implemented, what is wild fantasy._

100% agree.

I learned this as well. For example, if you search the U.S. Patent system, you
can find a lot of crazy things, because the patent office never actually
verifies them! One example is a mind control patent by displaying a certain
images using Visual Basic, making the CRT to emit electromagnetic waves at
specific frequencies. It even has some code! Nobody cannot tell if it's just a
work by a fantasist engineer, or the surface of a deeper real project. I bet
my specific example is the former one. I also believe the remote mind control
stuff is bullshit.

But nobody can differentiate every single thing in general. We cannot tell.

This process also effectively makes conspiracy theorists be able to claim
they're always correct: If you try to interpret all actions by the governments
to be huge conspiracies, naturally, many of your predictions will be true!
Unfortunately, things like the shape of the Earth or vaccines will be victims
as well.

I think this is a very effective strategy by the governments in an information
age with relatively free flow of information: You don't need to censor
anything, you simply misdirects all, to the point that the SNR is so low that
almost no one can decode the real signal successfully.

~~~
ddorian43
All patents are screened by the military. If it has any chance of being real,
it's theirs and doesn't go public and author gets shafted.

------
dudul
The english page of this article barely mentions experimentations on children.
Other languages highlight sexual abuses and drug based experiments as part of
sub-projects number 102, 103, 112 and 117. Apparently International Children
Summer Camp was part of the project and were provided the children.

Sickening.

~~~
codr7
What's sickening is that they've been getting away with this and worse for a
long, long time; despite all sorts of evidence leaking of acts that are so
insanely inhuman and twisted it's pretty damn obvious where the path
ultimately leads.

The US imported all real psychos from Nazi Germany as part of operation
Paperclip and let them loose on the local population to test their insane
ideas about how to break and bend innocent people to whatever purpose using
trauma.

Paperclip is also supposedly where the missing pieces for the nuclear bomb
came from, which explains the sudden need to blow Japan into little pieces
before the war was officially over.

These people are clearly insane, and will eventually have their power taken
away and be tried for their crimes; or burned at stakes and torn into pieces
by angry mobs, depending on how much forgiveness we're capable of
collectively.

~~~
fnenrjfkdke
Too late. There is no "enemy" to lynch or forgive because most of the
individuals responsible for such abuses are long dead. Their legacy has now
subtly ingrained itself into the edifice of Western culture, our norms and
institutions. (Now _that_ is really scary stuff. Like "ubiquitous totalitarian
death cults, complete with loyal oposition" level of scary, at least if you
have an aversion to cognitive dissonance and want your culture and ethics to
make sense anyway, only we call it business as usual. Either way, it's
disheartening to realize how humanity can ruin things sometimes.)

~~~
codr7
Agreed, this so called society is rotten to the core. Even our official
history admits several incidences of the same scenario. Once all possibilities
have been explored, the corrupt end result dies in no time; since there is no
substance left holding it together.

I'm not after revenge, it just leads back to square 1. But I have an idea how
far out the truth will appear to most once fully revealed, and I don't claim
to know half of it myself. Truth always finds a way. The natural tendency then
is to find someone to project your pain on, someone to hang for it.

------
rollthehard6
Recommended
[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1824.The_Men_Who_Stare_a...](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1824.The_Men_Who_Stare_at_Goats)

------
dekken_
Tangential:

Interview with Chris Morris on his new movie exposing the malfeasance of the
FBI.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liV5wKAihh8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liV5wKAihh8)

------
hos234
For those interested in parapsychology check out Dean Radin's talk on whats
new since the 70s -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUw9kT19EVc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUw9kT19EVc)

~~~
agota
Thank you for sharing!

------
cpr
If you look at the various testimonies of MK Ultra victims now surfacing, it's
clear that the program is ongoing.

~~~
ncmncm
Yes. People assume that since it was reported on, it was shut down, but there
was never any evidence of that. The principals got promotions on schedule, and
retired with pensions.

Jon Ronson's "Men Who Stare at Goats" is an exploration of the recent state of
the program, terrifying if read carefully. Certain of the principals retired
very, very wealthy. How they got that way is not revealed, but access to
damaging secrets is not hard to convert into wealth.

That so many people today believe that it was all about ESP experiments is
evidence of its success, because it included tests conducted against the
public.

We may reasonably infer that its success led to its regular deployment. Public
approval of the Iraq invasion, despite proof before the event that it was
unjustified, may be counted as evidence of its continued misuse. Public
acceptance of universal surveillance, post-Snowden, might qualify.

------
nickthemagicman
This is unreal. It feels like something out of the Marvel universe.

~~~
afandian
This is why nationalism / patriotism is so destructive (edit: in blinding us
to the possibility). We are all humans no matter where we live. Humans, in
aggregate, have repeatedly over the years committed atrocities. And we will
again, unless actively prevented. Being 'the best country in the world' (which
ever one) is irrelevant.

Then again tribal exceptionalism is in our nature too.

I'm still troubled by the memory of a well educated intelligent American
refuse to believe that the US uses torture when the Guantanamo revelations
came to light.

~~~
ravenstine
What does this have to do specifically with nationalism? A globalist
government could conceivably do the same things.

~~~
afandian
Specifically the belief that "my country would never do that". It's crucial to
be able to believe that it can happen.

~~~
read_if_gay_
That seems like a very minor connection to nationalism. Also, lots of other
political ideologies put a similar amount of faith in their government. I
don't see a reason to single out nationalism at all beyond maybe pushing your
agenda. The real lesson to be learned from this is not that nationalism is bad
but that people should not trust their governments.

~~~
afandian
Who cares what the precise political ideology is? It's the same human
characteristic.

~~~
read_if_gay_
You, apparently, because you specifically pointed out nationalism and even
gave a justification as to why.

------
dang
Stephen Kinzer has a new book about this:

[https://www.amazon.com/Poisoner-Chief-Sidney-Gottlieb-
Contro...](https://www.amazon.com/Poisoner-Chief-Sidney-Gottlieb-
Control/dp/1250140439/)

[https://www.npr.org/2019/09/09/758989641/the-cias-secret-
que...](https://www.npr.org/2019/09/09/758989641/the-cias-secret-quest-for-
mind-control-torture-lsd-and-a-poisoner-in-chief)

[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/10/books/review/poisoner-
in-...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/10/books/review/poisoner-in-chief-
stephen-kinzer.html)

------
bcaa7f3a8bbc
One also needs to look some of the experiments in terms of LSD. In the 60s an
70s, psychedelic drugs, especially LSD, were believed to have mind-changing
power, both the counter-culture activists and the CIA establishment were
experimenting with the drugs, the former group wants to use it as a tool to
look beyond "The Matrix" and authority, and a gateway to a new spiritual
world. While the establishment were trying to use it as a tool for
psychological manipulation.

A good book that cover the history is _Acid Dreams: The Complete Social
History of LSD: the CIA, the Sixties, and Beyond_ by Martin A. Lee and Bruce
Shlain. If you want to learn more about LSD and computer culture, read _What
the Dormouse Said_ by John Markoff.

The history was quite interesting. For example, Kary Mullis claimed his
discovery of PCR was inspirited by LSD, Whitfield Diffie is said to be active
in the anti-war movement and knew about LSD, Dan Ingalls jokingly implied some
features in Smalltalk were inspirited by LSD when journalists asked. Later,
the psychedelic subculture was appropriated, commercialized, mainstreamed,
losing the original countercultural context and message ("The early years of
the 1970s saw advertisers using psychedelic art to sell a limitless array of
consumer goods. Hair products, cars, cigarettes, and even pantyhose became
colorful acts of pseudo-rebellion"), slowly disintegrated it, also, and the
drugs didn't show such great power as previously promised, finally government
had banned drugs as well.

Later, the personal computing in the mid-70s was literally seen as the new
LSD, but this time not by chemistry, but by networks, building the cyberspace,
a civilization of mind.

Now we see the history repeats again, full cycle. The advertisers and
companies use it to make big money and push for pseudo-rebellions.
Technically, the potential of Internet as a force of liberation is correct,
but too overrated. Politically, the establishment like the NSA and CIA are
trying to use it as a tool for psychological manipulation, and calls for more
regulations (especially the anti-Fake News measures, the intention is good,
but its implementation can be dangerous if the system is abused).

I believe the next failed revolution will be biohacking and transhumanism.

------
teilo
I recommend the Netflix series Wormwood, a documentary about Frank Olson, a
CIA agent who was "suicided" when he learned what the CIA was doing with MK
Ultra, and started expressing his discomfort about it.

------
smileypete
Timothy Leary was in on it too:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32TU6yLwqrg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32TU6yLwqrg)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3i4ALdMSt0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3i4ALdMSt0)

Wiki section about their unethical experiments on people:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentatio...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States#MKUltra)

Makes me think that where there's a well funded covert organization (CIA)
operating in a climate of fear (cold war), the sociopaths and psychopaths
therein can easily rise to the top. :(

------
foobar_
Check out the movies - The Manchurian Candidate and The Game.

~~~
UncleSlacky
And "The Men Who Stare at Goats":
[https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1234548/](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1234548/)

------
mikece
"But the Russians were doing it and might use it against us in war!"

I think projects like this are the logical outcome of a society or entities
which constantly look forward to the next war instead of seeking to spread
peace through cooperation. It's also a statement of trying to win a war
through subterfuge instead of straight-up defeating your enemy in combat
should it come to that. Either way, I think it reeks of pusillanimity.

~~~
EstoniaTechLead
It is not pusillanimity. If you are the lone society that tries to cooperate
and spread peace you will be eaten out. It is rational and logical behaviour
to survive.

~~~
EstoniaTechLead
If your goal is ideal world you must for a while be non-ideal to survive until
you reach closer and closer to that ideal state. Which I would say we are
doing currently.

~~~
ramphastidae
Isn’t this exactly the rationale used by Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot to
commit mass genocide in the name of a more ‘ideal’ future state?

~~~
EstoniaTechLead
Just because some type of reasoning was used in order to justify something bad
happening does not mean the reasoning itself is bad or wrong. If your goal is
an ideal peaceful world you might have to be patient in order to reach it and
take some non-ideal steps to have any chances at all reaching it.

~~~
about_help
And this is how fascism spreads. Thanks EstoniaTechLead for trying to seduce
people into giving up their morality.

These are bad actions but for "the greater good"? You don't get to have it
both ways. Protecting yourself without torturing people is 100% feasible and
your argument should only be heard in a war crimes tribunal from the
defendant'a lawyer to ease their sentence.

Morality isn't hard, but the implementation can be.

------
Craighead
Hey look an influence operation.

