
Raspberry Pi 3 Model B confirmed, with onboard BT LE and WiFi - merah
https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=Ti%2FYleaJNSl%2BTR5mL5C0WQ%3D%3D&fcc_id=2ABCB-RPI32
======
eridal
Raspberry is the most important project that made my family interested in
"computer things"

It gathered the whole family together to play old couch-games[0], something
that most powerful consoles haven't even been close --specially with the
grampas

Really exited about what the future will bring us!

0: [http://emulationstation.org/](http://emulationstation.org/)

~~~
rb808
I must be the only one disappointed with old-school games. I was super excited
to set up a retropie, after 20 minutes playing the nostalgia wore off quickly.
Anyone else find the same?

~~~
nkrisc
I think some of that has to do with the fact that a lot of those older games
aren't really as fun as we remembered them to be.

There's some classic gems, to be sure, but they were also all we had.

~~~
Danilka
The bigger underlying problem is that we associate those games with happy
periods of our lives. The once where we could play games, do projects and not
worry about anything else.

By playing an old school game, your brain extracts these happy feelings from
the memory. However, it's not a sustainable source of "fun" per say. As
opposed to the newer games where "fun" is being caused by the game directly.

~~~
andrepd
I strongly disagree. I have zero interest in today's bloated AAA games. Simple
games like Tetris, Mario + romhacks, or Civ II have given me collectively more
fun that I would ever have playing some insipid shooter or uninspired pay2win
fantasy game. I wouldn't trade them for any of today's games, which I consider
severely flawed in many ways.

~~~
eru
Sturgeon's law applies. We only play the 10% (or less) of old games that are
good. There are good new games, too.

~~~
andrepd
I don't doubt it. I only say that the percentage of good older games is at
least equivalent, if not greater, than the percentage of good newer games.

~~~
malka
i disagree with you. i think the bad games end up being forgotten.

~~~
ekianjo
Nope, they are still getting a lot of exposure on retro websites and even GOG
(despite calling themselves Good Old Games there's also some not-so-good games
in their catalog).

------
nfriedly
Comparing the photos to my Pi 2, it doesn't seem very different. There's an
extra IC near the microsd card, a connector beneath the HDMI port, and a few
other small changes.

But nothing that looks like an antenna. Any idea where that might be?

Edit: as lovelearning pointed out, there is a small ceramic-looking piece in
the upper-left of the top side, near the GPIO pins and LVDS display connector.
That might be it.

~~~
Squonk42
That is it, and the connector beneath the HDMI port is the same (but mounted)
JTAG connector as the RPi2.

I don't know what is the chip, though.

Also noticed a 2-pin header between the 40-pin one and the upper USB ones: it
looks like the "RUN" from the Rpi Zero.

EDIT: The 2-pin "RUN" header already existed on the RPi2, where the ceramic
antenna is now located on the RPi3.

~~~
Squonk42
There is a big Diode D5 near the micro-USB power connector.

------
pred_
All that site returns here is

    
    
        FCC Federal Communications Commission
        Security Violation
    
        Your request looked malicious and has been blocked.
        You can use your browser's Back button to return to the previous page.
        If you have questions, please contact the FCC at 1-888-225-5322
        If you think that you have reached this page due to an error on our part, please contact let us know.

~~~
ryanlol
Lucky you, I'm straight up blocked. From multiple IPs even, chrome throws
"ERR_CONNECTION_RESET" on 4G.

And here's "curl" from my server

    
    
      * Hostname was NOT found in DNS cache
      *   Trying 192.104.54.190...
      * Connected to apps.fcc.gov (192.104.54.190) port 443 (#0)
      * successfully set certificate verify locations:
      *   CAfile: none
        CApath: /etc/ssl/certs
      * SSLv3, TLS handshake, Client hello (1):
      * SSLv3, TLS handshake, Server hello (2):
      * SSLv3, TLS handshake, CERT (11):
      * SSLv3, TLS handshake, Server key exchange (12):
      * SSLv3, TLS handshake, Server finished (14):
      * SSLv3, TLS handshake, Client key exchange (16):
      * SSLv3, TLS change cipher, Client hello (1):
      * SSLv3, TLS handshake, Finished (20):
      * SSLv3, TLS change cipher, Client hello (1):
      * SSLv3, TLS handshake, Finished (20):
      * SSL connection using DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384
      * Server certificate:
      *        subject: C=US; ST=District of Columbia; L=Washington; 1.3.6.1.4.1.311.60.2.1.3=US; O=Federal Communications Commission; businessCategory=Government Entity; serialNumber=06 19 1934; CN=apps.fcc.gov
      *        start date: 2015-09-13 15:38:08 GMT
      *        expire date: 2016-09-14 00:27:01 GMT
      *        subjectAltName: apps.fcc.gov matched
      *        issuer: C=US; O=Entrust, Inc.; OU=See www.entrust.net/legal-terms; OU=(c) 2014 Entrust, Inc. - for authorized use only; CN=Entrust Certification Authority - L1M
      *        SSL certificate verify ok.
      > GET /oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=Ti%2FYleaJNSl%2BTR5mL5C0WQ%3D%3D&fcc_id=2ABCB-RPI32 HTTP/1.1
      > User-Agent: curl/7.35.0
      > Host: apps.fcc.gov
      > Accept: */*
      >
      * SSL read: error:00000000:lib(0):func(0):reason(0), errno 104
      * Closing connection 0
      curl: (56) SSL read: error:00000000:lib(0):func(0):reason(0), errno 104

~~~
bjelkeman-again
Is it being slashdotted and responding like it is a DoS attack maybe?

------
mrpippy
Given Broadcom's connections to the project, it's almost a surprise they
didn't have some kind of Broadcom option for WiFi/BT earlier. Must have stung
at Broadcom to be powering the most popular hobbyist ARM Linux board, but
almost every one using WiFi powered by Realtek,Ralink,etc.

~~~
peteforde
Broadcom's "connection" to the project often seems circumstantial, like the Pi
project is a blip on nobody's radar. Several of their engineers used to work
at Broadcom and they've been under NDA lock and key, bending over backwards to
help people progress on things that they can't officially talk about by
leaving the least subtle clues ever so that they can move the process forward.

The GPU/camera integration in particularly is really painful - people have
gone to insane ends to reverse engineer how it's working so that they can
access features that aren't documented.

As a heavy Pi+camera user (I use 70 at a time every time we ship a unit) I
appreciate the efforts of all these folks so much.

~~~
Ezhik
>bending over backwards to help people progress on things that they can't
officially talk about by leaving the least subtle clues ever so that they can
move the process forward

That sounds pretty interesting, where can I read more about it?

~~~
peteforde
If you hang out in the camera board and read a certain kind of post -
generally people trying to get the camera to do stuff it's not easily able to
do - you see guys like 6by9 and jamesh doing their best to help without
getting in trouble.

[https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=4779...](https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=47798&hilit=broadcom+nda)

[https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=108&t=133...](https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=108&t=133953&p=892748&hilit=broadcom+nda)

[https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=1091...](https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=109137&hilit=broadcom+nda)

------
simmons
I'm a little disappointed that (from a brief glance at the documents) it
doesn't appear to support the 5 Ghz Wi-Fi band. I wonder if it's a power
issue, or just limited space on the PCB. The 2.4 Ghz band gets kind of crowded
in dense urban environments.

~~~
rbanffy
Same here. I moved the AppleTV and the Roku to a wired connection and had to
set up a second wireless network to be able to browse from the kitchen. Any
time I fire up Wifi Analyzer on my tablet I see three dozen different
networks.

Making computers easy to use was, definitely, a huge mistake.

~~~
IshKebab
Assuming that last sentence is a joke...

~~~
rbanffy
It's known that many a true word is spoken in jest.

------
mrpippy
Also, good on the Pi Foundation for keeping this listing in the open rather
than requesting 6 month confidentiality for the pictures/test report (which
almost all companies do).

~~~
Squonk42
I don't think they did: the confidentiality period is now 45 days only by
default, see [http://acbcert.com/documents/misc-docs/Memo-Short-Term-Vs-
St...](http://acbcert.com/documents/misc-docs/Memo-Short-Term-Vs-Standard-
Confidentiality.pdf)

Certification took place at Track (now Element UK) on 2015-11-23, given the
external picture dates, or 95 days ago, so it looks like it has been extended
once.

~~~
mrpippy
They didn't request short-term confidentiality for anything: the exhibit
summary list at
[https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm...](https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Sum&calledFromFrame=N&RequestTimeout=500&application_id=Zdy6ihUm12XySKofWhAcfg%3D%3D&fcc_id=2ABCB-
RPI32) has a column for short-term confidential which is all No.

Also, the confidentiality letter would specifically request short-term if they
wanted it.

~~~
Squonk42
You are right, but today it is very difficult to get an extension to the 45
days period, unless you can provide a release date, as it has been abused so
much in the past.

------
chatmasta
Why does Raspberry Pi not need to conform to the new "standards" of the FCC
that require locking down firmware in routers? If it has onboard wifi, and you
can turn it into a router... what's the difference between someone installing
OpenWRT on a raspi vs. installing OpenWRT on a TPLink?

edit: This is a legitimate question, not an opinion.

~~~
notatoad
As far as i'm aware those are all still proposed regulations and not in effect
yet.

~~~
cicloid
I think TP-Link is already shipping with a firmware in lockdown

[http://ml.ninux.org/pipermail/battlemesh/2016-February/00437...](http://ml.ninux.org/pipermail/battlemesh/2016-February/004379.html)

~~~
notatoad
But that's just because TP-Link wanted to, not because of any FCC rule (at
least, that's what an earlier discussion here on HN about that router said)

------
lovelearning
I couldn't spot the typical wavy PCB antenna pattern anywhere. Is that small
cube in the upper left corner of external top view a ceramic antenna? Looks to
me like the 2 LEDs have been shifted further down towards lower left and
replaced with something new.

Update: Just noticed the radio testing report says single PCB mounted chip
ceramic. I still can't spot it with certainty.

~~~
rasz_pl
Yes, this is the antenna.

I cant believe it took them that long, Broadcom is famous for their BT/Wifi
chips, buildin wifi was a no brainer, and cost shouldnt be an issue when you
have great connections inside the company.

~~~
azdle
Are you sure that's the antenna? It looks more like it'd be a balun. It even
has what looks like a feed line going to the keepout that's right next to it.
I feel like the one in the picture is missing the actual antenna.

~~~
rasz_pl
balun (white ceramic part with brown rectangle marking) appears to be on the
other side between the chip and via to the antenna

[http://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/2-45ghz-
balun/52...](http://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/2-45ghz-balun/52562)
or similar

~~~
azdle
Oh, it's on top (which they totally said). I'm not a smart man.

------
zymhan
I love how the FCC still has a Sun web server

~~~
mappu
Slightly surprised to see that in combination with a *.cfm URL. I guess
ColdFusion had a SPARC port?

~~~
bcg1
Sun web server is a Java web server, and ColdFusion is a Java application.

------
deutronium
Neat :) It'd be cool if they use non-usb ethernet too, fingers crossed!

------
mrbill
Are the BTLE and WiFi the only changes?

Still same CPU and RAM as the 2?

~~~
simcop2387
Since this is the first showings of it, we don't know yet. I haven't read the
data yet but it'll likely cover only the newly added RF stuff, and the part 15
compliance for the FCC. We'll have to wait to hear from the pi foundation on
the rest of the specs.

~~~
mrbill
From elsewhere, I've read that it's the same 1G of RAM, but the CPU is now a
quad-core 1.2Ghz arm64.

~~~
simcop2387
Yea that got confirmed last night on the release of it. I can't wait for the
software stack to catch up for the arm64 stuff. I hope the pointer size change
doesn't negate too much of the speed gains it can bring.

------
schappim
Video and images of the Raspberry Pi available here:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yXIC1UVKx0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yXIC1UVKx0)

------
rb808
The Raspberry Pi website says they're unlikely to have a new version in the
next few years. Do they have FCC now? Maybe they just want to add on the radio
modules.

From the FAQ: > there are no immediate plans to release any more new models. A
further new model may be released in 2-3 years, but this is not a firm
schedule.

[https://www.raspberrypi.org/help/faqs/#generalFuture](https://www.raspberrypi.org/help/faqs/#generalFuture)

~~~
Sanddancer
Saying you've got an awesome product around the corner is a good way of
causing the Osborne Effect [1]. Also, plans can and do change. It could very
well be an issue where they weren't planning on it, but the people at Broadcom
came up with an offer that was too good to pass up. Plans can and do change.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect)

------
vlunkr
One step closer to accessibility for that don't have all sorts of usb dongles
laying around.

------
cowmix
All we need is USB 3 and it would be perfect.

~~~
Skunkleton
I am curious of your application for USB 3? Care to elaborate?

~~~
2bitencryption
On the Pi 2, the ethernet port was really a USB-to-ethernet port plugged into
a hidden USB port. So network speeds were limited to USB 2 speeds. I'm
guessing the Pi 3 also works like this, instead of having pure onboard
ethernet? But I don't know yet.

~~~
morganvachon
> _So network speeds were limited to USB 2 speeds_

Given that USB 2.0 is 480Mb/s, and Ethernet is 100Mb/s, there _is no
bottleneck_ when using the Pi's Ethernet port. I really wish this myth that
"Pi Ethernet is slower than dialup because USB" would just die.

Of course, like everyone else I'd love to see a new version of the Pi with
Gigabit Ethernet directly connected to the system bus, and USB 3.0 while we're
at it. But that would greatly increase the cost of the device and also require
a newer SoC that supports such things.

~~~
voltagex_
>Pi Ethernet is slower than dialup because USB

I can't find any info to say which bus the MMC reader is connected to, but I
know if you use a USB drive as well as the built in ethernet port, speed will
suffer.

~~~
duskwuff
None of them. The SD card connects directly to the CPU.

------
cmdrfred
I'll be picking one up. Onboard WiFi is a big deal.

~~~
make3
Couldn't you already just plug a fairly cheap USB dongle in your rasperry pi ?
I'm not sure I see what the big deal is, aside from probably making the price
cheaper and freeing up a usb slot

~~~
tonylemesmer
If you've ever tried to get wifi working (esp on earlier RPis) you'll
understand it is not that simple. Especially for newbies. Having said that its
a good baptism of fire.

Raspberry Pi with built in wireless comms means it uses a standard piece of
hardware so the software stack can be configured to work out of the box. That
can't happen with the existing arrangement. Also the power supply problems
with original Pis are frustrating to say the least. These are most evident
when plugging in USB wifi devices. Again having a standard integrated piece of
hardware will (hopefully) avoid this.

~~~
TD-Linux
This doesn't really reflect my experience at all with the RPi 2. The edimax or
official wifi dongles "just work" with NetworkManager.

With the early RPi it was a bit different because of USB power problems and
kernel bugs, but those are mostly solved.

~~~
CaptSpify
Experiences vary. I agree with tonylemesmer, getting them to work has not been
trivial for me.

------
ck2
But you can get almost any wireless ability and keep modern with whatever
standard changes by simply using a usb stick.

They are super tiny now and barely stick out of the usb port.

Why hardwire wireless and outdate a board a few years later?

I think in 5 years we got g -> n -> 5ghz -> ac and three bluetooth variants.

Now there is indoor lte and other stuff coming.

~~~
dbcurtis
So, how much time did it take you to get the WiFi stack working on your RasPi?
Oh? You've never actually tried to get WiFi working on a Pi? Thought so.
Getting WiFi to work on a Pi has historically been an exercise in very, very
careful shopping for a dongle that actually works. Or getting lucky. Things
may have changed recently, but many Pi users have stubbed their toe on the
finding-a-Wifi-dongle-that-works rock. Have WiFi built-in that "just works" is
going to be hugely beneficial.

~~~
kingosticks
It's now easy to find reviews on amazon for many wifi dongles specifically
mentioning rpi compatability. And they just work.

Im sure you could still buy something unsupported if you didn't do your
homework, just like nearly anything.

------
sinak
The FCC's OET website is down at the moment, I'm guessing probably because of
HN traffic. You can find the document cached here though:

[https://fccid.io/2ABCB-RPI32](https://fccid.io/2ABCB-RPI32)

------
mrlambchop
having recently sourced near identical components, the combo wifi/bt chip was
around $1.40 in large volume. I'd wage in 40nm its < 50c for BRCM to produce
depending on the break they got. ant is < 30c.

gotta assume this is connected via USB so it won't be the lowest power -
taking up the 2836's sdcard slot would be 6 IO out of the GPIO map which would
be over kill. so most likely this solution needs the onboard USB hub /
ethernet chip and its less likely they will bring connectivity to the cheaper
versions.

pretty happy with this - saves 2 USB peripherals!

~~~
rasz_pl
wifi chip is most likely connected over SDIO

------
rasz_pl
new 64 bit 1.2GHz cpu core confirmed?

[http://i.imgur.com/KRRd7OQ.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/KRRd7OQ.jpg)

[http://i.imgur.com/exuZy58.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/exuZy58.jpg)

[http://www.cnx-software.com/2016/02/27/raspberry-
pi-3-model-...](http://www.cnx-software.com/2016/02/27/raspberry-pi-3-model-b-
board-adds-wifi-and-bluetooth-connectivity/)

------
atomi
Please have GbE

------
jimmcslim
Raspberry Pi's 4th birthday coming up...

[https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/four-years-of-
pi/](https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/four-years-of-pi/)

"We are going to be doing some celebrating here at Pi Towers on Monday:
February 29 is the 4th anniversary (or 1st, if you’re prissy about leap years)
of the first sales of the Raspberry Pi 1."

Might be an auspicious date to launch a new version of hardware?

------
burstmode
3 Generations of PCBs and still no RTC onboard...

~~~
ATsch
Probably because of lack of demand. Most people use the RPi in a scenario
where they either have internet, or don't care about time.

------
akhilcacharya
Wow, this will give my chip a run for its money/performance. My favorite thing
about the chip is the onboard connectivity.

------
jblz
Excellent news. I wonder what the radio components will do to overall power
consumption of the board. It should be considerably lower than a USB combo
wifi / bt device, anyhow, no?

------
AndyKelley
I don't think it's going to happen but it would be really neat if it supported
Vulkan. I want to try to build an arcade machine out of cheap, underpowered
hardware.

------
mrpippy
It also has BT Classic: section 7.5 of the test report states "The EUT is a
small, single board, computer with WiFi, Bluetooth and Bluetooth LE
connectivity."

------
XxFurCornxX
I must check that out. Reading the comments makes me want a retropie. The link
is not working.

------
alvern
Can someone explain to me the room that the test photos are from? Is it sound
proof? Why?

~~~
badsock
Close - radio waves not sound waves.

~~~
CamperBob2
Turns out that the wavelengths involved are similar, although one form of
radiation is acoustic and the other electromagnetic. So those anechoic
chambers often work pretty well for both purposes.

------
schappim
Anyone got a copy of the files? The FCC has pulled them down!

~~~
JorgeGT
[https://fccid.io/2ABCB-RPI32](https://fccid.io/2ABCB-RPI32)

------
mlonkibjuyhv
Please have a header for an on/off button.

------
musgrove
The link seems no workie. FCC server problems.

------
digi_owl
And here i was just about to order a 2...

------
OedipusRex
The onboard Wifi and Bluetooth really makes the barrier of entry for IoT $5
(assuming the stick with the $5 mark)

~~~
Snorlack
It's already $4 with the new ESP8266-EX from WeMos!

Full WiFi stack, 11x GPIO, Analog in, SPI, I2C, 80/160Mhz, 4MB Flash,
power/flashing over USB, supported by the Arduino IDE, or just use the NodeMCU
Lua firmware with modules for most sensors, displays, MQTT etc. I'm having a
blast with them right now.

(Edit:
[http://www.wemos.cc/wiki/doku.php?id=en:d1_mini](http://www.wemos.cc/wiki/doku.php?id=en:d1_mini))

~~~
mciancia
WTF is WeMos? ESP8266 module itself costs below $2

~~~
Relys
Ummm, I believe it's a board you can surface mount the ESP8266 on to.

