
Anger Over Tourists Swarming Vacation Hot Spots Sparks Global Backlash - mudil
https://www.wsj.com/articles/anger-over-tourists-swarming-vacation-hot-spots-sparks-global-backlash-1527000130
======
ggm
To give a contrarian view, what do people have against other people? If the
goal is exclusivity, Then this is faux experience. The places are now, temples
to humanity and humanity is what they contain.

I have touristed in places packed with locals, the physical effects are no
different. It just cultural supremacy to believe because they are "local"
somehow your experience is distinct from having a hoarde of little old ladies
with rainshields on around you. (Nara for instance, which is jam packed with
Japanese of all ages and religions, but few westerners when I was there. The
queue to get local food at lunchtime was unbelievable.)

~~~
ortuna
The article is talking about remote areas (NZ - Lord of the Rings), beaches,
camping trails etc. These areas didn't get a lot of traffic. Now they do which
is leading to the undesired outcomes. It's not talking about locals vs
tourists. It's mainly talking about sudden influx of people coming into an
area.

~~~
Taniwha
I'm a kiwi, I don't think people are against visitors per-se - it's the
enormous amount of poo they leave behind that they ought to be packing out -
it's particularly a problem because we have a culture of 'freedom camping' \-
stopping on the side of the road for the night, but now we have tens of 1000s
of camper vans without builtin facilities piling on the roadside poo

PS: Lord of the Rings was a movie it's not actually what we're about

~~~
mkingston
Me too. But I'm a bit out of touch. I'm aware roadside camping waste has been
a mainstream issue for a while, but are many in NZ talking about pressure on
environmentally sensitive areas? Is that a very big part of the conversation?
(This article might cause one to believe as much).

~~~
Taniwha
If I look at the local newspaper and the periodic airing of grievances, it's
all about camper vans and piles of poo, and then maybe about people who can't
safely drive on the left side of the road

I think there probably are isolated areas that are now seeing more people than
they ever have but most locals don't get there either - DoC (the government
conservation arm) is quite capable of closing places if required

------
alistairSH
Yup.

I visited Reykjavik last winter and was astonished at the number of tourists
visiting in mid-January. I had wrongly assumed it would be a down-time because
of poor weather and short days. Nope, tour agencies just cut prices enough to
entice people to travel "off-season".

We had a long weekend, so stuck to the main tourist sites within a few hours
of the city. They were all crowded with buses and vans full of tourists.

Not only were the crowds themselves an eyesore, a huge number of the tourists
were poorly behaved. Not just inconsiderate in the face of large crowds, but
actively damaging to the area. Littering, hopping "do not cross" safety lines,
wandering too close to the water's edge (Iceland has rough seas and it's easy
to get swept into the ocean).

I don't know if there's an easy answer. All the tourists do bring money. But,
I did get the impression that Iceland was being ruined.

I also recently returned from a trip to Peru, where we hiked part of the Inca
Trail and visited Machu Picchu. While the crowds were large, I was pleased to
learn Peru has limited visitors both to the ruins and the trail to try and
ensure both are maintained for generations to come. The Inca Trail limit used
to be 2000 people/day and is now 500 (that includes guides and support staff,
so ~200 tourists).

~~~
pishpash
Wasn't that because of WOW Air?

~~~
alistairSH
In part, yes. WOW and IcelandAir both run substantial tour programs, allowing
split tickets for those heading from Western Europe to the US, bundled with
discount lodging and tours to popular sites.

That, along with Instagram, make Iceland a desirable place to visit.

~~~
rando444
this is largely incorrect. wow air does not run any tours, tour groups,
transport, lodging, etc. it's just a budget airline and they are only
interested in transport.

~~~
epimenov
They do allow "stopovers". Where you can stay in Iceland for few days between
the flights. Those are heavily marketed during the flight too.

~~~
rando444
All of the legs of the flight are the same price regardless of whether you
book them together or separately.

They're not really selling a "stopover" so much as just convincing you to buy
plane tickets for what they already cost.

------
titzer
I generally only tell my family and close friends about the spots I find. It
won't last forever, the masses might find out another way, but mostly the urge
to show off lessened over the years. I have my pics and my memories, and
that's enough for me.

------
paulsutter
Congestion pricing. Cities like Venice and Barcelona are beautiful and should
absolutely have the right to control tourism, why not do it with a (steep)
tax? A double benefit: fewer tourists and more public funds. The tax could be
dynamically adjusted to control visitors

Im generally an advocate for low taxes, but why shouldn’t cities benefit from
being desirable rather than suffer for it

~~~
pishpash
Because you may find yourself completely locked out of places you might want
to visit in the future. Yes, there are always people richer than you, who
don't want _your_ company, either.

~~~
scrumper
Which is in effect saying that the residents' right to control access to their
city is subordinate to random tourists' right to visit whenever they like.
That doesn't sound like a reasonable position.

Maybe a lottery system then? 5k free "tourist visas" per year, that sort of
thing.

~~~
FooHentai
>Which is in effect saying that the residents' right to control access to
their city is subordinate to random tourists' right to visit whenever they
like. That doesn't sound like a reasonable position.

Interesting position. Competing against that thought you have stuff like
United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights #13: Freedom to Move. "We
all have the right to go where we want in our own country and to travel as we
wish"

~~~
rpedela
The UN isn't talking about tourism.

~~~
FooHentai
My initial instinct was to handwave as well but I don't think that holds up.
Not explicitly naming tourism doesn't mean it's not applicable, as the point
of calling them 'universal' is that they apply no matter the context. Person,
government, country, planet. Universal. What do you consider to be a
definition of 'travel' that applies to that statement, that wouldn't also
include tourism?

The kind of restriction on tourism we're discussing here appears to run
contrary to that particular line. Even at it's most conservative reading it
seems to set the bar at 'if you're a citizen of a country then you can travel
freely to any public place within it'. The idea of locking down a city to
prevent that is exactly what's being proposed here.

Or are we talking about only international tourism here?

~~~
rpedela
The context of the entire thread is using money to "control" tourism which is
already common. I have been to many places where tourists paid more or had a
special tax. Or were required to have a local guide.

The UN charter is specifically about citizens not foreigners. Additionally
they are talking about no militay checkpoints, preventing a marginalized
ethnic group from traveling from point A to point B, etc. It isn't about not
charging rich Americans a little bit more because they want to see New
Zealand.

------
lopmotr
Isn't it ironic that tourists themselves are complaining about other tourists.
It's like somebody concerned about climate change saying "I used to drive my
overpowered car without any worries because there weren't enough car owners to
cause a problem but now the world is full of cars and they're polluting it!
Let's do something about those other car owners!"

It sounds a bit entitled to want the scarce things for yourself any not have
to share them with poor people who can now afford them more than they used to.
Wanting those poor people to stay in their slums where they belong, and
perhaps be subjects of tourism themselves but not rise to the level of tourist
themselves.

Maybe it's just a sign of greater global economic equality, which is widely
seen as a good thing. Let's have more of it!

------
jurassic
This resonates. I was recently in Seville, Spain, and felt myself on the verge
of a claustrophobic panic attack while touring the cathedral because of the
thundering herds of tourists pressing in from every side. Big organized tour
groups where 20, 30, or more people are led around by a single guide speaking
to them through mic and bluetooth headsets are the worst because they distort
and concentrate the tourist density. One minute it might be fine to go up in
the giralda and a few minutes later an hour+ wait if a couple of these giant
groups decide to queue up at one time.

------
jkira
I've always thought this was a great opportunity for VR. Pop on your favorite
VR headset and see the sights without having to fight the crowds or spend a
fortune getting there.

And being VR it could add the optional time-travel element so you could go
back to see whatever historical event made the place famous... :)

------
kasperni
And it is only going to be a bigger and bigger problem in the future.

Great that people are talking about how much free time people are going to get
in the future. But where are they going to spend it?

I was always, how bad can in be living in tourist hotspots like Venice or
Barcalona. But having lived in Copenhagen, and seen the number of tourist in
the inner city increase by 10% every year for the last 5-6 years at least. I
have changed by mind, and there are a lot places worse then here.

At some point it is just not going to be sustainable anymore. And I don't see
alternative but to put some kind of limit on the tourist horde.

------
epx
This is one reason I refuse to go to typical tourist destinations. The other
reason is, tourists are fleeced. My parents paid 6, 7 Euro for a bottle of
water in Europe!

~~~
rm_-rf_slash
Just gotta know where to go. A local vendor at small Mediterranean town I
visited sold 1.75L of one the most delicious red wines of my entire vacation
for barely €3.

Given the article’s subject matter, the location stays a secret with me ;)

~~~
BerislavLopac
I bet it was Croatia, or possibly Albania. ;-)

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yourduskquibble
Try the following facebook link redirect[1] if you can't get past the paywall:
[https://www.facebook.com/flx/warn/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsj.c...](https://www.facebook.com/flx/warn/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsj.com%2Farticles%2Fanger-
over-tourists-swarming-vacation-hot-spots-sparks-global-backlash-1527000130)

[1]: You can add the following as a bookmarklet to your browser and click on
it when you hit the paywall on wsj to get the redirect link.

    
    
      javascript:window.location="https://m.facebook.com/l.php?u="+encodeURIComponent(window.location.href);

~~~
rando444
my simpler first approach: right click 'web' and open in an incognito window.

~~~
yourduskquibble
My simpler first approach is to use a ref control[1] plugin ;)

[1] [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/referer-
control/hn...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/referer-
control/hnkcfpcejkafcihlgbojoidoihckciin)

------
bsenftner
I expect many destination cities will experience economic inflation, rendering
them only available to the international wealthy. People's homes will become
where they vacation, as, after all, that'll be the only place many can afford.
"VR Vacations" will actually become what people do when they take vacation.

------
gusfoo
> Anger Over Tourists Swarming Vacation Hot Spots

Anger at hot spot marketing department for successfully selling! How dare
they!

------
merinowool
Is this site compliant with GDPR? I thought restricting the user experience
depending if user would give up his personal details is forbidden? This site
also doesn't say it doesn't cater to Europeans. I am confused.

~~~
dorwi
Obviously personal information is a commodity, which we can trade for comfort,
and it doesn't have much value since most of the people are happily giving it
up... so I'm not too surprised about this

------
linuxlizard
Slow motion version of Larry Niven's "Flash Crowd" ?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_Crowd](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_Crowd)

------
pmlnr
Having been to tourist hot spots in China, it's bad there as well - unless you
take the old roads on foot. Nobody takes the long ways any more, so if you
want that genuine experience, walk.

------
atomical
Best option is to find some other place in the country to visit. Find an old
trail go for a hike. Throw away the traditional bucket list and focus on
having fun.

------
ct0
[http://archive.is/zE2dN](http://archive.is/zE2dN)

------
mdb333
...well don't go to China lol!

can't read the article due to paywall but can grok the content based on the
title. When you break it all down it's pretty much a supply/demand type issue
where supply is constantly limited, or in reality decreasing, and demand is
increasing rapidly. The only thing that can adjust the speed of the above is
pricing and regulations. Unfortunately, many "destinations" are hungry for the
tourist dollars and don't think about (or know how to) building a sustainable
industry.

Regulations can help; some examples: \--Antarctica treaty limits size of boats
that can make landings, number of people that can be on land at once and the
minimum ratio of guides/tourists. \--Bhutan limits the number of tourists
allowed in the country annually, requires they tour with a guided company, and
mandates a minimum spending amount per day. \--Ecuador limits boats in
Galapagos to maximum of 100 passengers, limits the port of calls allowed based
on boat size and has consistently increased entry fees to balance demand
\--Even in San Francisco they passed an ordinance banning tour buses in
certain neighborhoods as they were a constant nuisance of noise and pollution.

Beyond regulation, its just a matter of price and accessibility. There's tons
of wilderness still throughout the world but very little is easily accessible
or of interest to typical tourist. If there's only one or two flights in/out
per week to a remote destination you know tourists numbers will be limited.
Anyone with 30-60k can visit the north pole. Ive seen pictures and it looks
boring AF but at least it's exclusive. Even climbing Everest now is described
as an escalator up the world's highest garbage dump. Comparatively, Venice is
a city of 50-60k ppl but sees 20M tourists a year! They are starting to put
some things in place to control the insanity but it's probably too little too
late.

Unfortunately, at the risk of sounding racist, a big part of the problem for
more typical destinations is newly rich asian middle class hungry for luxury
but completely unaware of local culture/customs, uneducated on the sensitivity
of ecosystems, etc. Seems like everyone agrees that the Chinese have taken the
lead position as world's worst tourists... and they've already reached 2x the
size of Americans (which are admittedly also pretty terrible) int'l annual
travel volume.

Also, the internet must share some of the blame! you used to have to work hard
to discover a new place, research a desination, meet locals to find out the
best secrets... now the Internet lays all to bare and its simply a competition
of who has the most impressive instagram roll. Even, the park next to my house
used to be a relative deadzone but now gets all sorts of tourist traffic
because it was featured on some hidden gems of SF type website.

------
jackconnor
Getting a lot of these WSJ paywall articles in here. Seems like people who
have a subscription would probably read these on their own, and we can just
leave them off HN so they stop annoying the hell out of everyone else.

~~~
tomhoward
I can always get to paywalled articles on WSJ, NYT, WaPo and other news sites
via [http://archive.is/](http://archive.is/)

I this case: [http://archive.is/5zMmn](http://archive.is/5zMmn)

------
phyzome
Paywall, can't read.

~~~
FlyingSideKick
I've been lucky enough to travel to almost 40 countries and unfortunately many
locations designated as a must visit have been completely ruined by over
tourism including Boracay, Varcala, and Mue Ne just to name a few. Often times
by the time the travel press is heralding a place it's character has been
changed. Cartagena and Iceland are good examples of this where 10 years ago
they were infrequently visited and were replete with services aimed at locals,
now many of the shops and restaurants cater to serve the needs of tourists.
Good for the proprietors but bad for the authenticity of local culture.

