

How and why the government is stalking you - jasonkolb
http://www.applieddatalabs.com/content/how-and-why-government-stalking-you

======
gnosis
What's even sadder is that many if not most HN users are contributing to the
surveillance apparatus by building web apps and infrastructure, promoting it,
and not taking a stand against it.

How many of you Googlers and Facebookers (and the legions of you working for
Facebook/Google wannabes) have really thought hard about what you're doing?
How many of you care? How many of you honestly want to do something to stop
the pissing away of privacy to corporations and the government?

I would venture to guess that it's a vanishingly small percentage. Most just
want to make money, and let others worry about the consequences. Or they
delude themselves in to thinking they're "changing the world" with some
monumental cow-tipping app.

~~~
hp50g
There are still those of us who don't support total surveillance and will not
stand for it. Were probably more traditional Unix people and not so embroiled
in technology. Everyone else has been got if you ask me through media, social
pressure or plain old apathy.

However it's worse than just web sites. I've worked for a nefarious company
who feeds of data like theirs. I came to my senses when asked to do things
which destroyed my ethics and quit to make amends.

At risk of promoting a fanatic, stallman was right for many years. Once a
fanatic, then a told you so, then a visionary. I genuinely was brainwashed to
think the guy was nuts until I saw it all with my own eyes.

Some things you can do:

* sign out of Facebook forever. There is no point in deleting your profile. Real friends meet you in real life.

* close your google account. It just follows you like a leaky passport.

* get a dumbphone and turn it off all day unless you need it for emergencies.

* read books instead of use e-readers.

* host your own mail and web services at home. Use SSL (with own CA), SSH and encrypt your email if sensitive.

* ask yourself is your employer really doing ethical work. No? Find somewhere else. This is the hardest bit - it took me 10 years to find somewhere ethical.

* use cash, particularly when shopping in large chains or on public transport systems.

* use Firefox only, with adblock and ghostery.

There are probably more.

~~~
MoreMoschops
"read books instead of use e-readers."

How necessary is that? Does it depend on the eReader? I use a Sony 300 series
(which I personally think is about the high point of the eReader evolution,
with the exception of the 350 for more screen space in an almost identical
sized casing) which is as thankfully dumb and disconnected as eReaders get. It
plugs in like an external hard drive and I simply copy epub files onto it.

You couldn't pay me to have a kindle (well, you could, but you'd have to pay
me a lot and I'd just sell it and get another Sony).

~~~
hp50g
There are two issues with e-readers which need to be considered. One is
obvious, the other is not.

1\. e-readers like the Kobo, Kindle, Nook etc (ones tied to a store) phone
home and report reading progress and are DRM encumbered. The Kobo even
gamifies reading which is just insane if you ask me.

2\. The second issue applies to all e-readers and that is that they promote
distribution of epub files. The source of epub files is usually illegitimate
(as everyone pushes stuff through stores) and the hosts are about as dodgy as
can be as well.

Books can also change hands easily.

If you're going to get an e-reader, your approach is the best.

------
anigbrowl
Meh.

 _Layer on top of this what we already know about the close relationship
between mobile providers and the government, and it’s a safe bet that if the
government wants to know where you and what you’re up to right now, they
know._

IOW the headline is just linkbait; the government can stalk you more easily
than ever before, but in the text of the article comes the admission that it's
not necessarily bothering to do so. Before people throw up slippery-slope
arguments and claim these things only go one way, please take a moment and ask
yourself how much freedom you realistically enjoy now vs. in previous periods
like the Red Scare of the 1950s when the US was in the grip of anti-Communist
paranoia. I suggest that we enjoy a great deal more.

 _The stated goal [OEV] of this technology is to support, “classified blogging
activities on foreign-language websites to enable Centcom to counter violent
extremist and enemy propaganda outside the US." But Isaac R. Porche, a
researcher at the RAND corporation, claims it would not be easy to exclude US
audiences when dealing with internet communications._

You could make the exact same argument about Voice of America. A few countries
like North Korea still make it illegal to possess radios capable to tuning
into to broadcasts from frequencies other than the official propaganda
channels. The US has leveraged broadcast and print media to promote its own
interests for about as long as those technologies have been around, as do most
other governments. I've watched quite a few North Korean propaganda videos on
YouTube and somehow I've managed to avoid joining the Kim family personality
cult. There's no reason to think that encountering some US government
propaganda by accident is going to short-circuit the brains of Americans and
turn them in mindless drones - we already have 24 hour sports and shopping and
soap opera channels to take care of that.

I'm distinctly underwhelmed.

~~~
logn
I think the implications of your second topic are more profound than you are
considering. By creating these online sock puppets and fictitious lives to
back them up, the government is essentially injecting fake government agents
into our lives which could go deeper than any of us would normally imagine.
For instance, to be taken seriously on a message board such as ours, you might
need a github page. You might also need a meetup profile. And you'd need a
linkedin that's believable. To make these happen you might also need some
real-world interaction, so it's possibly tied in with undercover agents in the
real world, such as those infiltrating occupy wallstreet or other
groups/organizations/companies we don't know about.

~~~
anigbrowl
Espionage and counter-espionage has always functioned in an ethical gray area,
by necessity. I appreciate that this fails 'the honor code' in many peoples'
eyes, but I think it's better than aggressive militarism in that its
ultimately far less destructive.

~~~
b1daly
Thank you for saying this. What the us has done with military action is just
appalling. To the extent that the US has enemies, spying and information based
action is much less destructive.

I would also like to ask some of you who seem to take it as av given that any
erosion of privacy, any knowledge about you by government is bad: outside of
edge cases are we seeing big negative effects from the huge amount of data
being collected about the population at large?

There are a lot of upsides to this infrastructure. I give Google a lot of
info, but I get a lot in return.

As someone else mentioned, we have probably more personal freedom than any
previous era in the us. Many US citizens lived during times when racial
discrimination was codified in law!

There has always been an elite power structure in human society. The idea that
the executive branch has to obey the law is pretty new.

In general, I think the ideas of human rights are so powerful, that any
technology that has the power to vastly increase communication will be
instrumental in their spread. It's because they are powerful, and have an
obvious appeal to humans. The powers that be cannot undo the truthfulness of
ideas, by any means. This is my pet theory anyway.

But I really am curious. There are a lot of super smart folks on here raising
alarm bells about this. What are the scenarios where the average American
brings calamity on themselves by posting a bunch of stuff online?

~~~
logn
I think the calamity comes when we re-define our objectives. For instance,
right now the definition of 'terrorist' is fairly clear. But what if we start
to consider drug lords terrorists (we probably already do)? Then what about
the small dealers under them? Then what about considering the users they sell
to terrorists (for funding them)? Then what about considering that drug user's
spouse to be a terrorist, for harboring a terrorist? Then it could be fairly
easy to imprison a great number of people. But the real danger is that instead
of imprisoning everyone we pick and choose who we want to send away forever.
Then when someone speaks out against the government in a way that's frowned
upon, the government digs up some dirt which can categorize them as a
'terrorist' and they're locked away in a secret prison or executed.

This might sound absurd but I think it's plausible. And it's exactly this kind
of worst-case-scenario preparation and fear which gave us the great documents
and principles our country was founded upon.

------
mrschwabe
_the US government is running a large ring of puppet accounts as part of
Operation Earnest Voice (OEV)--a practice commonly called “astroturfing”...

Operation Earnest voice is built to allow 50 real users to manage 10 fake
accounts each. These 500 accounts appear to be from anywhere in the world they
user would like, “replete with background , history, supporting details, and
cyber presences that are technically, culturally and geographically
consistent.” What it does, effectively, is create a network of online personas
that, when working in a coordinated fashion, can control the tone and
direction of just about any online conversation._

This brings to light an important consideration about the current state of
social media and whether or not these massive social networks are really the
answer - could be argued that it is better to be apart of smaller-scale,
referral based, private networks where there is less likely to be
'infiltrations' of the variety stated here.

Unfortunately, I suspect, that HN is no exception to a program like OEV.

------
hakaaaaaaak
I periodically get concerned about this, but I already assume that government:

(1) mostly, somewhat, has our best interests in mind, not totally, but
somewhat, and

(2) not only uses fake accounts and taps lines, but has presence and/or
influence at pretty much any major company like Google, Facebook, etc.

I think the right thing to do is to:

* Periodically speak up and support privacy legislation, semi-anonymously. (They can find out who you are, but don't be blatant or overly noisy, even from different accounts or locations, because that is more of a threat. Don't use Tor, Redphone, etc.)

* Realize that we have limited to no privacy when anyone can post info about you and credit card, phone/GPS data, etc. can be used/stolen.

* Know that there are politics, power trips, psychosis, and evil.

* Know that most people feel the same way you do. They don't want people killing their families and friends, and want to respect your freedom. Whether they are in government, military, or not, they are 99% trying to help. If you have family in government and military, think about them. They have your best interests in mind, usually.

I think it is fine to have these posts, but don't get too worked up about
them. There is no reason to be paranoid. Just do your best with the knowledge
you have, and don't act like a straight lace or a wierdo and you'll fit right
in and probably won't be a victim.

If you join the militia, sell your house and build a bomb shelter in the woods
full of guns, or start using cash-only without a recent purchase of a Dave
Ramsey book, that's a red flag. Also, don't buy fertilizer in bulk, or from a
bunch of different locations. Basically, don't be a moron.

------
Qantourisc
I remember Deus-Ex in 2000 ... When the ECHELON/Aquinas was scary fictional
big brother ... look where we are now ... :( Even the people in the game
itself where ridiculed for suggestion such practises existed. Let alone in
real life.

------
sambomillo
Relevant: how to cloak yourself online:
[http://www.slideshare.net/jonathanwhunt/cloak-or-feign-
your-...](http://www.slideshare.net/jonathanwhunt/cloak-or-feign-your-online-
persona-you-miscreant)

------
chuckmans3
But how much data are they collecting that we DON'T know about?

~~~
Xorlev
Anything public on social networks including social graphs.

~~~
krichman
We fully know about that.

------
humanspecies
Google Glass is the end of all privacy. I frankly will not be 100 years near
someone wearing one. If establishments allow Google Glass in, I'm out.

------
tptacek
Also, they're controlling our minds with the flouride they put in the water.

