
From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones - Geekette
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2017/09/13/from-prison-to-ph-d-the-redemption-and-rejection-of-michelle-jones
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jackmott
I don't understand why we let people out of prison if we aren't prepared to
_actually_ let them out of prison. I'm not really bleeding heart about this,
I'd be fine with any murder of this sort meaning life in prison. What does not
make sense is letting someone out and then not treating them as normal humans
again. It only encourages people to revert to evil.

~~~
subroutine
Some quotes from the article makes it seem like they are more worried about
the potential social and political backlash, than their personal beliefs on
whether she has been rehabilitated.

> " _We didn’t have some preconceived idea about crucifying Michelle,” said
> John Stauffer, one of the two American studies professors. “But frankly, we
> knew that anyone could just punch her crime into Google, and Fox News would
> probably say that P.C. liberal Harvard gave 200 grand of funding to a child
> murderer, who also happened to be a minority. I mean, c’mon._ ”

This is so cowardly.

~~~
throwaway287391
... wow. I'm pretty shocked that a Harvard prof would admit to overturning
someone's admission due in part to them being a racial minority, fearing the
_prospect_ of bad press from _Fox News_. Fox has really won the culture wars
in a major way.

~~~
fhood
Why would Harvard actually care what Fox news thinks? Honest question.

~~~
Balgair
I was going to say something more 2015-ish, but with Donny's revealing of the
wizard behind the curtain, yeah, you are right.

Why do they care?

I mean, they have enough cash in the bank to never let another student in for
200 years, and still be just fine. They have more good-will built up than
anything else out there. They make advances in human knowledge comparable to
almost nothing else besides another University. They have it all. So what
could they want then?

The only thing I can come up with is that they _do_ think Fox would be correct
in that assumption. They aren't worried about the money. Maybe they are
worried about the woman herself and just are using the Fox stuff as cover?
Nothing else really makes sense.

~~~
anigbrowl
The idea that sufficient resources mean you can just ignore politics has
historically proven inaccurate.

------
moneytalks
Can't believe we're to the point of debating whether a private educational
institution can base an admissions decision, in part, on a past murder
conviction.

This isn't about redemption or rehabilitation. No one is suggesting she's
going to beat, starve, abandon and murder another 4-year-old. That's very
unlikely.

But, what we are suggesting is that a private institution should be able to
consider a person's entire story in their admissions decision.

Crimes have consequences beyond the government imposed sentence. But maybe the
issue here is that the woman's punishment was much less than what most people
would consider full justice, so they feel compelled to mete out slightly more
to compensate.

And you say, but look at all she's contributed to society with her research!
And I say we'll never know what her son may have contributed and she took him
from the world.

~~~
nxsynonym
>>But maybe the issue here is that the woman's punishment was much less than
what most people would consider full justice, so they feel compelled to mete
out slightly more to compensate.

Peoples justice is not justice, it's revenge. You can't cherry pick the
decisions of the justice system to fit your personal world views. You either
believe in the ability of the justice system to impose the correct sentences,
or you don't.

This private institution can base their decisions on anything they want, but
in this particular case the reasoning is asinine and cowardly. It has nothing
to do with her as a person and everything to do with a bad PR incident.

~~~
moneytalks
Criminal justice attempts to align punishments with the public's sense of
fairness, not the other way around.

When people regularly feel compelled to mete out vigilante justice, it's a
sign that the justice system is broken _not people 's sense of fairness_.

The alternative is to make the criminal justice system into some kind of
religion lecturing to the public about what value system they should have.

And, here, if you polled the general public you'd like get an overwhelming
majority who believe that serving 20 years in prison for the beating,
starvation, abandonment and murder of a child was too light a sentence.
Habitually ignoring such sentiment is detrimental for a society long term as
people lose faith in the government being able to protect them and maintain
the right to be the sole arbiter of justice. (Avoiding mob justice is equally
important, but this is not a case of ambiguous facts or uncertain guilt, just
whether 20 years could ever be the right sentence for this abhorrent crime.)

Remember, governments get their power from and serve the people. Not the other
way around.

~~~
nxsynonym
I see your point, but nobody is saying the time she served wasn't adequate -
yet still they want to force punishment.

Nobody would be complaining if she was trying to receive a HS diploma. But
throw a prestigious school in the mix and all of a sudden its an issue.

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protomyth
Either you believe in forgiveness or you don't. What she did was horrific.
What she had done to her was almost as bad, but not an excuse, never an excuse
because we are not animals, for what she did. She ended a child's life in a
horrible, cruel manner.

But....

The state decided 20 years was enough. You can argue about the length or if
she got out at all, but its problematic not to get the most value out of her
when we are supposed to reintegrate her into society[1]. The time to argue she
should still be in prison is passed. If you did not journey or send comment to
the parole board prior to her release, then you did let your voice be heard.

“But frankly, we knew that anyone could just punch her crime into Google, and
Fox News would probably say that P.C. liberal Harvard gave 200 grand of
funding to a child murderer, who also happened to be a minority. I mean,
c’mon.”

I can understand this attitude in a single person, but you folks are friggin
Harvard. Now, some Fox host is going to do a whole segment on how flexible
your values are in the face of opposition.

Conservative politicians do this too when talking to the NYT and it is
annoying. Stick to your damn guns or admit you don't actually believe in the
principals you ran on. The voting booth back home is more important than being
invited to the cool dinner parties.

1) can we get an article on how their rehabilitation works at that prison.

------
Geekette
This story is an example of how rehabilitation is acceptable only in concept,
not reality for many, regardless of what they might profess. The student added
a personal statement (which wasn't required) about her crime and record. Yet,
2 people's "concerns", which they didn't bother to address with the applicant
caused the admission to be rescinded. The school's decision in prioritizing
appearances/what others will think above a student's future is repugnant.

Good to see she took it in stride:

 _“People don’t survive 20 years of incarceration with any kind of grace
unless they have the discipline to do their reading and writing in the chaos
of that place,” Jones said. “Forget Harvard. I’ve already graduated from the
toughest school there is.”_

~~~
tomjen3
There are things you can be rehabilitated from and there are things you can't.
Also rehabilitation doesn't have too be complete.

~~~
Geekette
Your point is unclear: Are you saying she isn't or can't be rehabilitated or
her rehabilitation isn't complete?

------
clarkm
For those interested in what her PhD research is actually about, I managed to
track down one of her papers:

> Incarcerated Scholars, Qualitative Inquiry, and Subjugated Knowledge: The
> Value of Incarcerated and Post-Incarcerated Scholars in the Age of Mass
> Incarceration

[http://www.jpp.org/documents/back%20issues/JPP%2025-2.pdf](http://www.jpp.org/documents/back%20issues/JPP%2025-2.pdf)

It looks like it's mostly about the Indiana Women's Prison History Project
which she participated in.

~~~
norswap
I'm actually disappointed by how meta that is. And puzzled by the fact that
I'm that reaction.

------
sgift
So, Harvard has professors that don't understand/accept the principles of
rehabilitation. Sad, but, unfortunately, hardly shocking. There are many
people like this all around the world.

~~~
johan_larson
In fairness, she is a convicted murderer. And just try to imagine the
magnitude of the blowback if she ever did anything wrong on campus,
particularly to some precious darling of wealthy and connected parents.

I'm not saying the Harvard administration made the right choice here, but they
certainly had cause to be cautious.

~~~
danso
So why ever release prisoners? Should institutions always be doubtful
bystanders of the U.S. justice system and its rehabilitation guidelines?

~~~
johan_larson
> Should institutions always be doubtful bystanders of the U.S. justice system
> and its rehabilitation guidelines?

In some cases, that's how it works, yes. Many employers refuse to hire ex-
cons. A felony conviction will bar you from some professional certifications
entirely. And because of sex-offender registries, people convicted of sex
crimes find it very difficult to live in built-up areas, since they are
required to live away from areas frequented by children.

A serious criminal record is a quick ticket out of basically all of
respectable society, including the part that people try to enter by earning
lofty degrees from prestigious institutions of higher learning. We as a
society clearly don't have anything close to full confidence in the
rehabilitation of criminals.

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danso
I've been less of a fan of "Shawshank Redemption" as I've grown older,
cynically seeing it as being overly Pollyannish, but this sounds like a scene
right out of it:

> _Incarcerated in 1996, Jones worked for five years in the law library at
> Indiana Women’s Prison, and got certified as a paralegal. She received a
> bachelor’s degree from Ball State University in 2004, and audited graduate-
> level classes at Indiana University._

> _Her blossoming as a historian began in 2012, when Kelsey Kauffman, a former
> professor who volunteered at the prison, encouraged inmates to research the
> origins of their involuntary home, which opened in 1873 as the first adult
> female correctional facility in the United States. Soon, Jones was placing
> library requests for reference books and, when they arrived months later,
> scouring the footnotes for what to order next._

------
Luyanda
Reminds of a friends story:

[http://learninginnovationafrica.co.za/sihle-
tshabalala/](http://learninginnovationafrica.co.za/sihle-tshabalala/)

[http://leadsa.co.za/articles/7093/sihle-tshabalala-from-a-
li...](http://leadsa.co.za/articles/7093/sihle-tshabalala-from-a-life-of-
crime-to-leading-change)

It's tough out there.

------
ggg9990
Yikes, talk about an unsympathetic example for criminal justice reform.

There are plenty of felons who are unjustly punished well after they've left
jail for crimes that weren't even that serious. Harvard deciding that they
didn't want a child murderer around their undergrads isn't an example of that.

------
sriram_sun
Also in today's news: "Chelsea Manning named visiting fellow at Harvard."
[http://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-
military/2017/09/13/c...](http://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-
military/2017/09/13/chelsea-manning-named-visiting-fellow-at-harvard/)

------
jessaustin
This feels like a weird echo of the Gina Grant case, which also featured
stupid cowardly retraction of admissions on the part of Harvard
administration.

------
eisrep
Unrelated to the story but I'm not too fond of taking over the scroll wheel
for transitions. Sure, it's a cool effect here but it tricked me into thinking
I had my Ctrl key pressed down somehow.

It's not enough to make me leave but it is a bit disorienting, if not
annoying.

~~~
adamors
I'm looking at the page on a MBP and I can't read anything. How did you get it
working? Both the touchpad and the up/down arrows just change the size of the
text.

~~~
fhood
here is the nytimes version if that helps

[https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/13/us/harvard-nyu-prison-
mic...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/13/us/harvard-nyu-prison-michelle-
jones.html)

------
Beltiras
> Jones got pregnant at 14 after what she called non-consensual sex with a
> high-school senior.

Why minimize? Sounds like rape.

~~~
Gracana
It may be difficult for her to talk about.

~~~
Beltiras
That's the presentation by the journalist, not a quote.

~~~
jamesrcole
the bit you quote above does say "what she called", which seems to indicate
it's an indirect quote.

~~~
Beltiras
"What she called" is the minimization that I object to.

------
samstave
As a father of three, the heinous crime against a small child, in the way
described, in my mind, is unforgivable. I couldn't care less about here PHD -
and that smug look in that picture makes her worse in my eyes, not "redeemed"

You don't beat a four year old child then leave them locked in an apartment to
die.

Fuck her.

~~~
chasing
That's my only take. She murdered her child. Heinously, if the description is
accurate. Harvard has the right to look at a person's entire resume when
deciding whether to accept someone, and that is an incredibly dark black mark.

Prison is just the punishment the state metes out. No one's obligated to act
as if she never murdered a child.

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mcguire
" _But the American studies professors said in their memo to administrators
that “honest and full narration is an essential part of our enterprise,” and
questioned whether Jones had met that standard in framing her past. In the
personal statement, which was not required, she did not detail her involvement
in the crime, but wrote that as a teenager she left Brandon at home alone,
that he died, and that she has grieved for him deeply and daily since._

" _[John] Stauffer emphasized in interviews that he and his departmental
colleague, Dan Carpenter, were simply trying to ensure that Harvard did its
due diligence about the candidacy._ "

The objections serm to be

1\. She would have a hard time fitting into Harvard. Which is horseshit.

2\. She would potentially embarrass Harvard. Which is to be expected of
administrators, but seems out of place for faculty. I wonder what the
spineless wankers think of the idea of tenure.

3\. She was not penitent enough.

So, yeah. Good job Harvard.

------
ubik
She beat her toddler son and left him to slowly die alone. The fact that
people with such warped judgement are in charge of influential institutions
such as Harvard is disconcerting to say the least.

~~~
santoshalper
What do you mean? When faculty uncovered more information about the crime (it
strongly implies she minimized it), they refused to admit her. That sounds
right to me.

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cushychicken
I understand how this is considered unjust, but in a way, Harvard did her a
favor.

If Harvard only wants to go to bat for Michelle Jones, august scholar, and not
Michelle Jones, convicted murderer, then they don't deserve to draft off of
her present work or academic legacy.

Good on NYU for sticking to their guns.

------
tryingagainbro
_> > At her trial, a former friend testified that Jones confessed to having
beaten the boy and then leaving him alone for days in their apartment,
eventually returning to find him dead in his bedroom.

Jones was sentenced to 50 years in prison, but released after 20 based on her
good behavior and educational attainment._

She could be brilliant and a huge asset to science, but personally don't think
she deserves to get out after just 20 years. My opinion. For certain crimes,
there's no coming back... You could "murder" your child by hitting him/her
accidentally with the car, leaving them unattended etc etc, but this is way
different. Real murder.

