
Images of New MacBook Pro with Magic Toolbar Leaked in MacOS Sierra 10.12.1 - coloneltcb
http://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/25/images-of-new-macbook-pro-leaked/
======
hn_user2
I'm really surprised by the negative reactions to the context bar. Does
everyone really have memorized what all 12 function keys do in every app they
use? I think this could tremendously help usability for pretty much every
application other than my IDE, since I do have those memorized.

Being able to hit a function key without looking? I may be able to to touch
type. But I've never trusted myself to hit a function key blindly.

I will say. Stepping through code could be difficult. Where I repeatedly am
stepping over lines while looking at the screen. I imagine my finger could
drift. Couldn't say without using it, but I imagine I would keep one finger on
a number to ground my hand while tapping step over or step in.

~~~
JoshTriplett
Yes, I touch-type function keys. And having used the X1 Carbon 2nd generation,
I _hated_ the "touch-strip" function keys, both because they have no
boundaries between keys and because they have no tactile feedback when
pressing.

The "context bar" seems like a huge win for people who look at the keyboard
(who do comprise a huge fraction of the market), and a huge loss for touch-
typists.

That said, I also don't use that many function keys, and I've slowly started
remapping the keys I care about to other key combinations. In practice, I care
about a few sets of function keys, most notably F11/F12 (commonly used for
fullscreen, which I've now remapped to Super-F), and F4 (Alt-F4 to close
applications, for which I've now trained my fingers to use Ctrl-W or Ctrl-Q
and report bugs on the occasional application that doesn't accept those).

~~~
sliverstorm
There's a big middle group, people who generally touch-type with the best of
them, but couldn't touch-type an Fn key to save Manhattan.

They just aren't that useful for many people, and so the muscle memory never
forms. (They are also _really_ far from home row on some keyboards)

~~~
JoshTriplett
> They just aren't that useful for many people, and so the muscle memory never
> forms.

I'd be surprised if the majority of touch-typists on Windows don't have
muscle-memory for Alt-F4, at a minimum.

> They are also really far from home row on some keyboards

Fair enough; helps that I exclusively use and prefer laptop keyboards, to the
point of having a USB ThinkPad keyboard/mouse combo on my desk.

~~~
rayiner
But there is no commonly used Mac shortcut that uses the function keys.

~~~
kriro
I pretty much only use ESC, F11 (show desktop) and F5 to reload the browser +
the occasional f6 to jump to the browser address bar. I've also reversed the
standard mapping so F11 is triggered without the fn-key.

~~~
4ad
show desktop: I use the trackpad gesture

reload: cmd+r

jump to browser bar: cmd+l

I have no idea what Esc does, I never use it.

~~~
afishisafish
Esc: cancel dialog

------
madmax108
Another example of Apple trying to please the masses but pushing over
developers. It's silly to think that the function keys and the ESC keys are
used so little that they can be removed altogether. Agree with others in the
discussion that such _touch sensitive regions_ are largely useless besides the
bling factor.

Also, what about the controls like screen and keyboard brightness or volume
controls? Where do those go to?

I use a Macbook Pro 2015 and I don't think I'll be upgrading to the new one,
especially if the specs are nearly similar.

Why Apple, Why do you insist on going against the standards on practically
EVERYTHING? There has to be some method behind the madness.

~~~
developer2
>> I use a Macbook Pro 2015 and I don't think I'll be upgrading to the new
one, especially if the specs are nearly similar.

Seriously? I'm on a 2013, and the specs of the latest machine are already
"nearly similar". I have factory SSD flash storage and 16 GB of RAM. The CPU
and GPU upgrades haven't been remotely worth upgrading to.

How can you be on a 2015 MacBook, talking about upgrading to a 2016? Nobody
cares whether you own the latest gadget; upgrades should wait at least 2,
usually 3-4 years. I'm not talking about the severe case of frugality (use the
same laptop for at least 8 years until it dies!). Just basic common sense.

~~~
ant6n
I have a macbook pro from .. 2013? The main reason for me would be too get a
fanless laptop. That could be a reason to update even from last year's model.

But if it's as silly as the 'new macbook', then I'll probably pass.

~~~
X-Istence
The 2015 MacBook Pro still has fans... You'd have to go to a MacBook instead.
Two very different laptops.

~~~
timjver
But the new one might not have fans.

------
davesque
Unfortunately, it looks a bit like they're going with the ultra-low key travel
keyboards on these new models. Very disappointed to see this. I don't
understand why Apple thinks its users want this.

~~~
valine
After trying one of their ultra thin keyboards I can't say I actually mind it.
The wide keys feel great to type on, although the shallowness definitely takes
some getting used to. I do the majority of my typing on a Das Keyboard
Mehcanical Keyboard, so I was quite surprised with how much I enjoyed Apple's
thin keys.

~~~
inopinatus
I still pine for the sculpted aluminium* keys of my old 2007 MacBook Pro.
These replacement squares of black plastic have never endeared themselves. For
desktop use the DasKeyboard (with the blue 'clicky' keys) is probably still my
top recommendation for feedback lovers, albeit in second place behind a
late-'90s IBM model that is long out of production.

~~~
serge2k
> second place behind a late-'90s IBM model that is long out of production.

You try [http://www.pckeyboard.com/](http://www.pckeyboard.com/) ?

~~~
Clubber
I have one of those keyboards and love it, but it's too noisy when sharing a
room. It can also be used as a highly effective weapon if need be.

I currently use the CODE keyboard. It's ok.

------
suprgeek
Multiple puzzling decisions -

1) The Esc and the Space keys are the two I most often use without looking -
now I have to f*ing look down to hit esc?

2)What about a hard boot? Is the power key now a soft key as well? Non-
removable battery and a soft reboot key do not make a good mix

3) Key press and travel distance look to be shallow - not a very satisfying
experience

4) Please don't make it any thinner at the expense of ports or battery life

5) The charging port is no longer Magsafe

All in all seems a bit more gimmicky and "change for change's sake" rather
than a solid upgrade

~~~
feelix
> 2)What about a hard boot? Is the power key now a soft key as well? Non-
> removable battery and a soft reboot key do not make a good mix

Are you seriously implying that you think that Apple would make a laptop
whereby if it kernel panics and you need to hard reboot, now there is no way
to do that because they accidentally made the power key a soft key?

(And I'll add the power key has been a soft key for some years now already)

~~~
qb45
> Are you seriously implying that you think that Apple would...

I love your tone here. To troll you a bit, nothing lasts forever and sooner or
later the time will come that Apple will go downhill and start making obvious
UI goofs. Will be fun to watch for sure.

------
ssijak
So much complaining about something that we didn't even yet seen in action.
Guys from Apple are not that stupid to remove f1-12 keys and put something
completely useless and UX unfriendly, give them a chance of showing it first
and then complain. And all the other talk about ports, magsafe and other stuff
that are just guesses, why do you complain about something that is not even
confirmed?

~~~
zouhair
I am really curious to see how using Vim without a physical Escape key would
work.

~~~
chillacy
I'm told serious vim users tend to not use esc anyways:

[http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Avoid_the_escape_key](http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Avoid_the_escape_key)

~~~
tedunangst
Apparently I'm merely a casual vim user, but I would struggle without an esc
key.

------
jvehent
Lenovo tried this in the 2nd generation of the carbon X1 and swiftly went back
to the traditional F keys in gen 3. I had to use one of those for a short
while, it was highly unpleasant.

[http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-ca...](http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-carbon-2/)

~~~
xoa
> _ABC Corp tried feature XYZ before Apple and it didn 't work so this feature
> is dumb_

While Apple is certainly far from infallible and has made blunders before
(sometimes from neglect, once in a while from a fundamental blunder in their
understanding of proper target market functionality), what you've written
seems to come up like clockwork with nearly every change they make. "Oh, but
someone else did the idea before!" I really don't understand why so many tech
people in particularly seem to have difficulty grasping that ideas are usually
of only marginal value, the real key value any given effort brings to the
table is the _implementation_. There is a world of difference between a
mediocre implementation of a decent idea and a stellar one, even if they're
100% the exact same concept. In fact sometimes a great implementation of a
mediocre concept can even beat out a crappy one of an amazing concept. Even
good intentions and hard work are not enough in software or hardware
development.

From a fundamentals perspective I'm honestly pretty surprised by the visceral
instant rejection, without having seen anything about the actual
implementation, by crowds at HN, Ars, etc. I don't really see how this is
fundamentally much different from what I've already got in macOS with my MS
Natural Ergo 4000 keyboard and the universal generic USB driver
"ControllerMate", which allows me to arbitrarily alter key mappings (including
full scripts) for any active application. I don't generally change the main
layout of course, but I do have dozens of profiles changing the upper function
and special keys to suit the program I'm in, which I find particularly
valuable for jumping from GUI apps to Vim and other CLI programs with a
different history of thinking about UI behind them.

Apple trying to just making this more available for the average user in a more
flashy way may or may not be helpful for a pro, but I also don't see how it
would be particularly harmful. What's with all stuff about "no more escape"
and the like, what difference does it make if you tap the corner to get
escape? As long as inputs are there that show up on the USB HCI what's the
issue? On the other hand having a good Touch ID implementation (presumably
with the HSM included) available built-in could range from great to fantastic
depending on how much custom use we're able to make of it.

Apple's current non-AIO desktops (Mac Mini, Mac Pro) are utter junk and that's
really depressing, but they've put more effort into their notebooks while
maybe this MBP will disappoint too but I don't think the massive doom
mongering in this or the other thread seems justified just yet.

~~~
rsync
"Apple's current non-AIO desktops (Mac Mini, Mac Pro) are utter junk and
that's really depressing, but they've put more effort into their notebooks
while maybe this MBP will disappoint too but I don't think the massive doom
mongering in this or the other thread seems justified just yet."

It seems justified to me.

In fact, as I look at a picture of a macbook "pro" with no physical escape
key, I can't help but think of George Lucas and the re-released, re-edited
star wars movies.

Mac pro basically disappeared with nothing to take its place.

Mac mini as a very nice all in one device is neutered by lack of an optical
drive.

The super thin macbook 12" (whatever it is) can't have power and a usb device
at the same time without some weirdo splitter dongle thing.

Oh, and the headphone jack thing.

Get these people away from the product development room. Give them something
else to do. Tell them to take a vacation or something - please!

~~~
grecy
You're just saying the same things that are always said about Apple products

> _In fact, as I look at a picture of a macbook "pro" with no physical escape
> key, I can't help but think of George Lucas and the re-released, re-edited
> star wars movies._

Is exactly what everyone said about a phone with no physical keys

 _Mac mini as a very nice all in one device is neutered by lack of an optical
drive._

Is exactly what everyone said about an iMac without a floppy drive, or serial
port, or all the other old things Apple have moved away from.

It's also fascinating you criticize their whole product line for not having
_all_ the features. Yes, the mini is "mini". It does not have optical, but
happily they build a different computer that does! And yes, the MacBook has a
limited number of ports - but happily they have a model with a _ton_ of
powerful ports, and as a nice hint of who might need it, they even put the
word "Pro" in the name!

It's like you want them to only build one computer that fits _exactly_ _your_
needs. Heaven forbid they build and sell a computer that is targeted at a
different set of needs than yours!

Next you'll complain that the Ford Focus sucks because it doesn't have a
pickup bed, when you could easily go and buy an F150 for that....

If you don't like it, there is an extremely simple solution for you. Don't buy
their stuff.

~~~
rsync
"It's also fascinating you criticize their whole product line for not having
all the features. Yes, the mini is "mini". It does not have optical, but
happily they build a different computer that does!"

The interesting use-case for a mac mini is as an HTPC. It's the best HTPC that
has ever been made and the models with an optical drive allowed you to cover
every use-case _including edge cases_ with one nicely designed box ... no
cable or peripherals.

An all-in-one mac isn't a candidate for an HTPC.

"If you don't like it, there is an extremely simple solution for you. Don't
buy their stuff."

Agreed. I bought the very fastest, maxed out mac mini that still had the
optical drive and have not purchased anything since (after having refreshed my
HTPC mini every two years prior).

I still run my 2009 mac pro and would love to throw money at apple to make a
new, refreshed tower for power users ... but alas.

And now I will buy a maxed out 11" macbook air (which is what I am typing on
right now) as a _spare laptop_ so I can continue with the form factor I
prefer, even if this one dies.

------
rcthompson
I once owned a Dell laptop that used a strip of touch-sensitive regions for
volume and media control. In practice they were completely useless, because
without looking, it just felt like one continuous bar with nothing
differentiating the buttons, so the lack of any tactile feedback made it
impossible to use those "buttons" without looking at them. In my 4 years of
owning that laptop, I was never able to build any muscle memory for hitting
those buttons. I'm worried that the same will be true of this magic toolbar.

~~~
stcredzero
_In practice they were completely useless, because without looking, it just
felt like one continuous bar with nothing differentiating the buttons_

With Escape at the extreme left top, it should be possible to differentiate
that stop by feel. I'll have to try it when it gets into the store. In the
meantime, I'm still very happy with my 2012 MBP.

~~~
colemickens
? There is no escape key?

~~~
boardwaalk
They probably mean the virtual one, which, if Apple is smart, will always be
in the top left, so you'll know where it is in relation to tilde/backquote
f.e.

~~~
colemickens
I took the GP comment to mean "the physical Esc key will help you get your
bearings without looking at the KB" but I might have mis-interpreted the
comment.

------
0mp
I wonder if the lack of the Escape button will force Vim users to start using
Control-[ instead.

~~~
curiousgal
Or you know, they won't not buy one. I really don't get the appeal of Macbooks
for developers, the price tag is quite heavy compared to the specs one gets.

~~~
hellofunk
Because macs offer UNIX environment which is great for Devs, but also a full-
featured UI with lots of high-end commercial apps (and good audio engineering)
which is not as easy to get in a Linux laptop. And, the support and ease of
using the system is appealing compared to the more hands-on approach of
maintaining a Linux distribution.

Plus they are quite dependable hardware overall, and lots of easy OS updates.

~~~
pcwalton
Bash on Windows has made that no longer a Mac-only thing. Its presence really
is a game changer for me when I use Windows.

~~~
st3v3r
Nowhere near the same. Last I checked, Microsoft kinda put it over in the
corner, where it can be it's own little thing, but not a first class citizen
of the system like UNIX is on macOS.

~~~
binarycrusader
First class citizen? Have you seen how old most of the versions are of GNU
utilities they ship?

I'm sure it because of licensing, but then it's up to them to either improve
them or provide modern replacements.

~~~
st3v3r
I can easily install newer versions of those if I so desire.

~~~
binarycrusader
That isn't what the parent's claim was about though -- the claim was "first-
class" citizen.

I'm well aware of homebrew and the like having used it myself; I still think
the current situation is now better on Windows than macOS, which is bizarre.

~~~
hellofunk
Except that so many platforms just don't work well under Windows, and if you
use languages like OCaml with OPAM, or other incredible tools like Elixir or
Erlang, you can expect hiccups. You can get them working, but you have to do
more heavy lifting [0]. In some cases it took the maintainers of major
packages years to get them working properly on Windows because of its strange
environment compared to most of the rest of the industry, and these tools are
often still unstable. Which is why so many developers who choose to use
Windows usually have a duel boot or VM into Linux, which is an extra layer of
inconvenience a lot of the time.

I used to work on Windows only and had a VM, for 2 years this was my daily
workflow. When I finally just switched to Mac, it was amazing how much more
time I felt like I had during the day to spend on my real work, how fewer VM
issues I had to deal with, and just enjoy working on the native OS.

[0] [https://elixirforum.com/t/current-state-of-elixir-on-
windows...](https://elixirforum.com/t/current-state-of-elixir-on-
windows/855/4)

~~~
pcwalton
> Except that so many platforms just don't work well under Windows, and if you
> use languages like OCaml with OPAM, or other incredible tools like Elixir or
> Erlang, you can expect hiccups.

Which is why we have WSL/Bash on Windows!

~~~
hellofunk
WSL is full of compatibility problems with lots of stuff, it cannot be
compared to the underlying OSX system for ease of use.

~~~
pcwalton
I disagree. I listed several issues with XNU's implementation of POSIX above.

A large portion of the WSL complaints are around the lack of inotify. You know
what other system doesn't have inotify either?

Another example is ptrace(): on XNU, it doesn't work; you have to use Mach
instead. On the other hand, Microsoft went to the effort of actually making
ptrace() work properly. This has actual user-visible ramifications: gdb works
great in WSL, while it works not-so-great in current versions of macOS. strace
works fine in WSL, while on Darwin you have to use the heavily underdocumented
dtruss.

Syscalls are underdocumented in macOS, so Valgrind doesn't work well; it
constantly breaks on OS updates. On the other hand, Valgrind works great on
WSL as long as you compile from source. A lot of this is because Linux has a
stable and documented syscall interface, unlike Darwin.

~~~
hellofunk
Well, I don't use Windows any more so I cannot speak from personal experience
on the matter. But in my free time I experiment heavily with new platforms and
languages, and as I'm working through support forums, freenode, blogs, there
is a tremendous amount of noise from fellow experimenters trying to get
something going on Windows [0]. Perhaps the really smart folks out there don't
have this problem, but for the average joe blow developer who just wants to
have some fun exploring technology, it is very obvious that things just go a
lot more smoothly when installing and compiling and running various platforms
on OSX compared to Windows. There is rarely any difference between the OSX and
Linux steps to get all setup, while the Windows steps are often a non-trivial
obstacle for the _average_ developer. And many environments carry disclaimers
about known issues on Windows that can affect operation. Even WSL often needs
to be patched just to support a platform that works fine on OSX. Or we hear,
"you can do this better in the _next_ version of WSL..." sigh, that's not what
most people want to deal with.

You are perhaps well above average and so these issues don't affect you. But
that doesn't help everyone else who struggles in the Windows environment for
things that prioritise Linux/OSX.

[0] Heck, even one of the principal Clojurescript developers doesn't even
support Windows, he just asks for patches from Windows users who managed to
figure out how to get something working. That is not an isolated attitude.

------
rayiner
I've had Macbooks for about a decade, and I'm excited about these changes. The
OLED bar is kind of gimmicky, but OS X apps (unlike Windows ones), don't
really use the function keys much. The MB keyboard is good--what it lacks in
key travel it more than makes up for in key stability. Also, good riddance to
Magsafe. The worst part of the Macbook experience is Apple's incredibly
fragile and shitty chargers/cables. Being able to use off-the-shelf braided
USB-C cables is going to be awesome.

~~~
no1youknowz
> Also, good riddance to Magsafe.

What's wrong with magsafe? Owner of a mid 2012 MBPr here and I loved it.

~~~
rayiner
I've bought four 85 watt magsafe 2 chargers in the last couple of years (my
wife and I both have rMBPs), and all but one has frayed:
[http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/magsafe-cable-frayed-
any...](http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/magsafe-cable-frayed-any-
suggested-fixes.1746161).

It'll be great to not have to use Apple's chargers/cables anymore.

~~~
spike021
Really odd. I had one of mine for four years through college, which meant
constant plugging in/unplugging in classes, at the library, at the dorm/my
apartment.

Other than being off-white from dirt/dust and whatever, that charger lasted
all that time.

~~~
rukuu001
My 2010 MBP did 18 months backpacking (2014/15) and hasn't missed a beat. It's
had constant use otherwise.

I can only assume some of got lucky with indestructible chargers.

~~~
lucaspiller
I've been an Apple-laptop user for 10 years, and a month or two ago my
charging cable started fraying. It's less than two years old, and hasn't been
used anymore than I have previous ones (if anything it's probably been abused
less).

I'd assume it's just Apple reducing quality and raising prices (€85 for a
replacement?!?) - Lightning cables are notorious for the same issue.

~~~
rukuu001
Yeah, it's breaking my heart that my next laptop probably isn't going to be an
Apple.

With specs and quality going downhill and prices going up it just doesn't make
sense for me any more.

------
frou_dh
The hardware 'Esc' key has got the boot. Controversy incoming.

~~~
pklausler
What will vi users do?

~~~
tachion
'Hey Siri, emulate pressing escape button on keyboard now, please'.

~~~
heywire
Siri: "I've searched the web for "emulate pressing escape button on keyboard
now" for you":

------
synaesthesisx
Why does Apple still insist on such large bezels when the industry is shifting
away from those for displays?

Rather than potentially usable display area we have more large bezels, yet
again.

Take the 12" Mac for instance - Apple had no problem shrinking the bottom half
of the computer yet retained the large bezels, whereas they could've utilized
the area to place a larger display panel in while retaining the same
footprint. The resulting incongruence looks odd IMO.

Mockup of what I think the display should look like:
[https://i.imgur.com/BypLsSl.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/BypLsSl.jpg)

~~~
fiatpandas
You may like that scheme from a functional standpoint, but Apple would never
produce something like that. From a design standpoint, it looks bad when you
place a sharp corner so close to the screen fillet. The extra breathing room
feels much better.

They may reduce the bezel in the future, but IMO that would be done in the
midst of a MB redesign.

~~~
redial
> Apple would never produce something like that

Famous last words. The titanium powerbook had very small bezels for its time
(2001), and I remember Steve Jobs when introducing it claiming that at the
edge the cursor was almost gonna fall off. Of course this doesn't mean they'll
do it again, but they certainly experimented with the idea before.

~~~
jackvalentine
Yep and the powerbook has a much... sharper? external corner
([https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/OluAXYWRtcY3jVxu.l...](https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/OluAXYWRtcY3jVxu.large))
and still a way larger bezel than the above mockup.

------
yladiz
I don't mind this too much, although I do use the escape key a lot while
programming or doing other things, so that will take some getting used to if I
end up going with that new form factor (and if they don't release a laptop
that has physical keys there as well). In fact, if they do provide tactile
sensations ala the keyboard in the MacBook or the TouchID sensor in the iPhone
7, it might be better because the keys can be visually mapped.

I'm unsure if they're removing the other ports, such as MagSafe and the SD
card port, but I hope they don't. I wouldn't mind having to buy a dongle for
HDMI output since I use it so rarely, but I do use the SD card slot semi
occasionally as a photographer, and I don't see the advantage of USB-C over
MagSafe. Additionally, using USB-C could open up non-tech savvy users to even
more issues than the current fake/non-approved MagSafe power bricks being sold
on Amazon etc.

------
awinder
I was having a hard enough time with the AMD graphics rumors in lieu of the
awesomeness going on right now with the 1060/1070 in laptops, but damn apple,
way to throw in some real crazy with axing the escape key

~~~
notjustanymike
First the headphone jack, now the escape key.

There's a difference between courage and stupidity.

~~~
Analemma_
There was a James Bond villain (make of that what you will) who defined that
difference as being measured only by success; i.e., if Apple still sells a
bunch of these, then it was a good idea.

~~~
tajen
> If Apple still sells a bunch of these, then it was a good idea

Nope, it will just prove that Apple has no competitor in the field of quality
computers. I would still buy a Macbook if they sold the 2009 (even for the
price of today). With or without Force Touch, which is bad UI, just like
removing the Esc key.

------
pixelHD
Apart from the lack of the Escape and function keys, I'm kinda bothered about
the keyboard. It seems the MacBook Pro has the butterfly keys. I really hoped
they won't use the butterfly keys on the MBP.

Well, it's just a leaked image, so can't draw too many conclusions out of it I
guess.

~~~
endemic
I'm more bothered by the butterfly switches than the touchscreen strip. When
the 12" MacBook was released, I stopped by a local Apple store to check it
out, and left unimpressed. Better than typing on an iPad, but not by much. At
the point where I'm carrying a laptop, the extra few mm for decent key travel
is going to be unnoticeable.

------
jasonjei
So I have the unenviable position of having to support a C++ application with
Visual Studio as the build tool. I use a Mac and VMware. Does that mean
working within Visual Studio is going to be a lot harder given the Func keys
are gone?

~~~
st3v3r
Presumably, the bar is going to be context aware. So you could set it to
display a normal function key setup. You might even be able to customize it
yourself, so you could make keys for it.

~~~
manarth
I would expect the default to be unchanged from normal function keys, unless
an app declares its custom context.

------
pasbesoin
So, who's going to be first with an after-market "bumpy" "screensaver"
appliqué for this, to simulate at least to some degree a "key texture"?

Alternatively, will/could it (at some point) have localized haptic feedback?

P.S. I'd like to see some "edge-on" photographs that show whether and to what
extent the relative exposure/relief of the top row of keys and the bar cause
the bar to "hide behind" the higher relief of the keys, making it more
difficult to touch without triggering one of those keys, particularly for a
touch-typist or someone hitting the bar frequently.

------
dennyabraham
Is it coincidental that the leaked image is of a user buying bluetooth
headphones?

~~~
bobwaycott
Subtle foreshadowing of removing the headphone jack from the Mac lineup.

------
DominikR
I'm fine with the USB-C ports and buying a new set of cables but I'm not sure
about the Magic Toolbar. I frequently use the F keys for shortcuts in my IDE,
might be painful to adjust to this.

Edit: The USB-C ports are actually a great feature for me, I plan to buy a
monitor with USB-C that can both act as an USB hub, charge the Macbook and use
the USB-C cable to receive the video data. (all by using a single cable)

I'll then have one of these monitors both at home and in the office.

~~~
qb45
How do you USB-C guys deal with things like mice or pendrives?

~~~
DominikR
I personally will mostly use it as a desktop replacement where I connect only
one cable that goes to an UBS hub, monitor and will also charge the MacBook.

Mouse and Keyboard will be Bluetooth which I already use and that works well
for me.

Regarding pendrives: I'll need to buy a new one, that sucks obviously, but I
also have to say that I almost never used them although I bought an expensive
one from Corsair just in case. In most cases I just used Google Drive to make
that data available on all of my devices.

------
pkamb
Looks like my app PowerKey just got sherlocked...

[https://github.com/pkamb/PowerKey](https://github.com/pkamb/PowerKey)

------
chx
Lenovo did this to ThinkPads. They backed down. Apple will do this. They will
be heralded as true innovators, every laptop maker, including Lenovo will copy
them and thus we get further from usable laptop keyboard by another step.

------
wodenokoto
Is anybody else impressed with how accurate the artist rendition that has been
floating around for almost a year is?

comparison: [http://imgur.com/a/KDOGq](http://imgur.com/a/KDOGq)

~~~
desdiv
IIRC that artist rendition is based on the leaked spy shots of the actual
milled aluminum case[0].

[0] [http://www.cultofmac.com/430982/spy-photos-all-but-
confirm-2...](http://www.cultofmac.com/430982/spy-photos-all-but-
confirm-2016-macbook-pros-oled-touchpad/)

~~~
fiatpandas
This is correct. The imgur description incorrectly dates the renderings from
2015. They actually came out a little over a week after the leaked body
photos.

~~~
wodenokoto
The picture is stamped with 2015 along with artist and website.

~~~
desdiv
Here's a blog post[0] from the artist on 2016-03-30 depicting a MacBook Pro
concept. No OLED bar, and the ports are wrong.

Then the spy shots leaked on 2016-05-31.

After that, the artist released his corrected renderings[1] on 2016-06-09, and
_backdated_ it to 2015 for some reason.

[0] [http://www.martinhajek.com/new-macbook-pro-
concept/](http://www.martinhajek.com/new-macbook-pro-concept/)

[1] [http://www.martinhajek.com/macbook-meets-
oled/](http://www.martinhajek.com/macbook-meets-oled/)

~~~
wodenokoto
Nice investigative work. I stand corrected.

------
rsync
Tomorrow is the day when I run to store.apple.com and buy the maxed out 11"
macbook air - even though my current 11" macbook air works perfectly.

I need a decent laptop to do my work. A laptop without a physical escape key
is not a decent laptop. Therefore, I will stockpile a second one so as to
delay by 3-4 years the need to "switch".

~~~
comex
Do you have the caps lock key already mapped to control then? Or do you
actually use the caps lock functionality?

I've had caps lock mapped to escape for years on my MacBook Pro for the sake
of Vim. It's so much nicer to hit with the pinky than reaching all the way up
to the tiny 'esc' button in the function row, it's not even funny.

~~~
robinson-wall
You can have both with Karabiner (though it doesn't work with Sierra yet).

Caps lock can be control if held down and used as a modifier with another key,
but if pressed and released sends Esc instead.

------
sklivvz1971
I wonder how well (or badly) this is going to work when using an external
keyboard. I don't mind using the inbuilt keyboard and screen of a laptop for
limited time, but in my case, for proper coding and serious usage, nothing
beats a mechanical keyboard and a real mouse.

------
itomato
I can only hope the Magic Toolbar allows me to span 'Esc' across the whole
thing.

A meter alternating between battery capacity and wifi strength would be a nice
touch.

Testing the keyboard on the Macbook, I found the action too stiff for my
taste. Not jazzed about the short travel, either.

Here's hoping.

------
WiseWeasel
Just imagine playing Pong or Shufflepuck with that input. This will
revolutionize paddle-based gaming all over again!

------
ungzd
Reminds me of
[https://www.artlebedev.ru/optimus/](https://www.artlebedev.ru/optimus/)
keyboard

------
usaphp
Please, not those stupid left/right arrow keys, leave them as they are on
current macbook pro, I need spacing between them so I can touch feel them.

------
anfogoat
Unfortunately, this looks like it's going to increase usability a great deal
for ppl who are always running macOS and using the latest GUI apps from
AppStore and is therefore going to be in future MBP models as well.
Personally, tapping on a flat surface for my ESC and F-keys -- assuming
they're even available -- is something I'll refuse to adapt to.

~~~
taurath
But, I mean, you can have nyan cat going across your keyboard at all times,
which makes up for a lot of adaptation problems.

------
geerlingguy
It looks like the Touch ID area/button is physically separate, and I'm
guessing it will function similarly to the home button on iOS devices (touch
to power on/wake, and it scans your fingerprint at the same time):
[http://imgur.com/gallery/G8u98](http://imgur.com/gallery/G8u98)

------
dcosson
I wonder if they'll consider giving the next iphone a usb-c port too. If
they're really going to be consolidating to a single port I could get on
board. Changing yet another standard connector but still requiring everyone to
keep around 2 types of chargers (now exactly the same size) seems pretty
obnoxious even for Apple.

------
graeme
So will it be full of blue light at night? I'm guessing a lot of MacBook Pro
users are flux users. I certainly am.

~~~
bobwaycott
I'd expect the brightness is tied to keyboard brightness. Not that that
answers the question about blue light. To that end, I'd wager first version
won't be sporting anything like Night Shift / flux.

~~~
graeme
You can turn keyboard brightness fully off. Guessing that would make the magic
bar non functional.

~~~
bobwaycott
Unless they make the simple decision to prevent it from going 100% off.

~~~
graeme
Oh, sorry, that was what I meant to imply: the blue light couldn't be turned
off

------
deno
Everyone’s here focusing on usability aspects, but in fact this is a _great_
security feature more than anything[1].

Security research has been calling for something like this for a long time.
Any “enterprise” laptop brand should have been shipping this five years ago.

[1] Assuming they don’t let apps just display anything there.

~~~
jpalomaki
This is actually the thing that I've been kind of missing from computers now
that they come with the secure enclave, TPM and other solutions for securely
storing encryption keys.

It would be pretty great if there was a way for the security chip to
communicate directly with user to for example show a clear text version of the
bank transaction I'm about to sign with my secret key.

~~~
deno
There’s really no reason to have a separate plain text confirmation here, just
an indication that what you’re seeing on screen is not a phishing attempt by a
rouge app[1]. A single ‘secure mode’ LED would suffice really. How come no one
can even ‘innovate’ this little, other than Apple?

[1] Obviously though this is better, because it can be completely driven by
the secure path, as you say.

Also the axed Escape key is a textbook tactic to cause fake controversy to get
free marketing.

------
draw_down
The rest of them I don't care about, but I use the play/pause and volume keys
often.

------
gjvc
...and STILL has a caps-lock key.

~~~
rcthompson
I've seen many non-technical users, and even a few programmers, who
exclusively use the caps lock for typing upper case letters. It's maddening to
watch them type, but you can't argue that it's a widely-used key.

~~~
brazzledazzle
Have you ever pointed it out to them? I'd be torn between being rude and being
driven mad by the inefficiency of it.

~~~
nikolak
I'm one of the people that does that. While I assume it's less efficient than
using shift, once you get really used to it I would argue that there isn't a
big difference, and that it's not as inefficient as you think. At least for
day to day use and writing code.

~~~
qb45
Try this one weird trick: rest index fingers on these raised bumps on F and J
and other fingers on the keys next to them. Then when you type, hit each key
with the closest finger.

Try this for some time and you will see the light ;)

------
kdeldycke
No wonder the maintainer of Karabiner (
[https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/](https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/) ), one of
the most powerful keyboard customizer on OSX, had to start rewriting it from
scratch for macOS. Maybe the underlaying keyboard/accessibility APIs in macOS
have changed so much it forced a rewrite.

If that's the case then I'm starting to see the macOS major release policy as
being as conservative as possible. I.e. no introduction of unnecessary changes
unless it warrants advancements in hardware integration.

------
andrewmcwatters
HN is the only place where I can read people's comments complaining about how
the JavaScript ecosystem needs to move at even faster pace than it is now and
just a few submissions away, watch people complain about hardware change.

~~~
revicon
For me anyway, I don't care as much about software changes because I have lots
of choice, and can rewrite something or switct to another software package if
I want to. There is literally nothing on the market that matches apple's
battery life on their laptops so any changes they make that are deal breakers
for me are a big deal.

~~~
Tiksi
If battery life is your main criteria, the thinkpad x260 gets 17+ hours of
real world usage battery life, and the x250 gets over 22 (from what I
remember) if you add the superbay battery.

~~~
etatoby
Are they light and thin and durable and with high-quality chips and well-
tested hardware and perfect integration between OS and hardware and calibrated
displays and ... you get the idea. There's a reason pro users pay the Apple
premium for laptops.

But I wonder if Apple is really making a smart choice. Alienating the tech /
UNIX people, as few as we may be in the grand scheme of things, may hurt them
in the long run.

~~~
Tiksi
That's why I said "If battery life is your main criteria" in hopes of avoiding
this kind of predictable response.

People have different preferences/needs. Pro users get plenty of non-mac
laptops with "high quality chips" (I didn't know Intel made them worse for
everyone but Apple) and hardware.

Also the x2xx Thinkpads are probably far, far more durable than any macbook,
but that's unrelated to battery life.

~~~
etatoby
"High quality chips" wasn't about Intel, we all know they are reliable. I'm
talking about dodgy wifi, audio, ethernet, etc. chips, that offload their work
to the cpu to save on silicon, have crappy drivers, or are otherwise flaky.
That's been my experience with non-Apple laptops.

------
LaSombra
I hope the API to use it isn't restricted to App Store applications.

------
serge2k
Alright, I think the touch bar thing is stupid but really I use those keys for
volume/brightness almost exclusively. So I can probably live with that.

edit: Aw crud, I do use escape when I'm editing in vim from time to time.

Not having HDMI on the 15" is annoying. Not having SD is annoying. I didn't
use the HDMI port a ton, but it was nice to have. SD I really only use for
photos.

Losing magsafe is probably the worst thing here.

Oh well, my 2013 is still going strong so it's not like I'm really in the
market for a new macbook.

~~~
ashark
No magsafe and taking out all those other conveniences means I can consider
other vendors for the first time in years—but only because the MacBook will
have gotten worse, which is kind of a sad reason for it.

~~~
endemic
I have a venerable 2010 MBP that I'm considering replacing in the near future,
but (as you mention) the new hardware is not compelling. The thing I can't
figure out is whether or not my gripes are legitimate, or if I'm losing brain
plasticity (i.e. getting old).

------
johnwheeler
I hope they don't forego the USB port on the next MacBook pro.

~~~
revelation
I can see them moving to 60GHz exclusively.. ;)

Rechargeable, wireless USB cables. That will be amazing.

------
raldi
The article mentions that there's no longer an escape key; command-line users,
get ready to switch to Ctrl-[ from now on.

Not mentioned in the article: the power button is gone, too.

~~~
garrettgrimsley
>Not mentioned in the article: the power button is gone, too.

"It appears Touch ID is built into a nearly-invisible power button located
next to the display."

~~~
raldi
I could've sworn I'd Ctrl-Fed for "power" before posting this comment. Maybe
they're editing the article as the news develops.

------
dep_b
A thought: would it be possible with some kind of feedback like the touchpad
or iPhone 6S uses to simulate the feel not only of pressing keys but also the
feeling of your finger sliding over them without actually pressing them?

I mean I can find the ESC key blindly even if it isn't actually there anymore,
but the brightness up key is for me goes like "find ESC key, slide two to the
right".

------
kruhft
I like the builtin fingerprint reader if that means I don't have to type my
password to login. Love it on the phone, hope it works on the laptop.

------
kriro
I wonder if the bar will be customizable (both icons and functionality) or if
we have to live with what Apple provides for different programs.

Would love to map things I commonly do for bash or some generators etc. For
touch typing I could also see just mapping the left, middle and right roughly
so I only have to hit one of the buttons in that group for three extra
buttons.

------
akubera
I hope they still include a physical power button somewhere on the device,
though I don't see it on any leaked keyboard pictures.

~~~
garrettgrimsley
[http://imgur.com/gallery/G8u98](http://imgur.com/gallery/G8u98)

------
tetraodonpuffer
so if there is an API for applications to modify this magic toolbar, does it
mean that while the application with the custom toolbar is running I can't
change screen brightness or mute the sound etc? hopefully there is some
shortcut that forces the magic toolbar to 'alt-tab' to the 'system defaults'
view...

~~~
catbird
It looks like there's still a function button in the bottom left corner, so
maybe that is used to switch the mode of the 'function strip.'

------
chvid
Great with some new ideas on what's in a basic laptop.

I wonder: this would need some kind of software support so that the focused
application would write what to display on the keyboard? Meaning it would work
only with a small set of applications in the beginning.

Also I wonder if this feature will make it into apple's external keyboards?

------
alpineidyll3
Macs are already dead to me. It's become impossible to use them without some
new nag notification every time I want to run new software or even just do
anything without massaging itunes/icloud/siri continuously.

This is just another nail in the coffin. Adios OSX, hello well-made ubuntu
ready macbook clones.

------
vladimir-y
Let's try it in action, but for now I presume it's more like an marketing
thing than a practical need (I'm fine with usual fn keys). A thing which is
supposed to keep Apple to be named as an innovative company.

Also will this "magic" work on Linux if I put it on a new Macbook?

------
locusm
At that thickness wont this have serious thermal throttling like iMac's do for
GPU or CPU?

------
rsync
Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait ... wait.

Where. Where is the escape key.

Where _is_ the escape key ?

------
andreygrehov
I wonder if Apple gathers any statistics on the most pressed keyboard keys.
That could be a reason why they decided to go with the OLED touch panel as a
replacement for function keys.

------
tdkl
Time to make the top row with Esc and function keys as an external keyboard.
If didn't Apple already done that, since they're an accessories company
lately.

------
kybernetyk
Oh, no physical escape key? That's a show stopper. (Already have ctrl mapped
to caps lock so re-mapping esc isn't really feasible for me).

~~~
modiho
You can have both, so that escape is triggered when you tap caps lock, and
ctrl is triggered when you hold caps lock. I followed this article to set it
up on my MacBook [http://www.economyofeffort.com/2014/08/11/beyond-ctrl-
remap-...](http://www.economyofeffort.com/2014/08/11/beyond-ctrl-remap-make-
that-caps-lock-key-useful/)

------
visionscaper
What I noticed is what I think is a thinner screen bezel, which I love. It
also seems that the body is less wide. Or I'm I the only one noticing this?

------
mkj
It will be interesting to see how well they use their new hardware unspoofable
UI. Puts Apple Pay ahead of most other payments in terms of security.

------
efvxcgci
This is the end of Apple. I've been using MAC for over 100 years and this is
the final straw. I'll never buy another product from MAC. No function keys on
the MACbook, no headphone jack on the Iphone, less space than a nomad. It's
bad enough that I need all these dongles for my headphones, SCSI CD drives,
and CueCats, and now I need to get even more dongles for my function keys. I
knew MAC was going to fail ever since they released the underpowered and un-
upgradable toy Imac.

~~~
NinoScript
Can't tell if this guy is being sarcastic.

~~~
mturmon
Sarcastic, but yes, this is hard to discern. "CueCat" is the tell.

------
chuckreynolds
so the rumors look mostly true. WIN. #takemymoney

------
situationista
If the new MacBook Pros are indeed USB-C only, Apple's just given me a great
incentive to ditch the iPhone (with its proprietary Lightning standard) and
move over to a USB-C compatible phone (such as Google Pixel). At long last a
single charger for all devices could be visible on the horizon... another
self-inflicted nail in the coffin for Apple's closed-ecosystem supremacy in
mobile.

------
Karupan
I'm done with Apple's "Magic" features. I'm sticking to my old 2012 MBP retina
till it gives up the ghost, and then picking up a Dell XPS 13", which still
has familiar keys.

I'm all for evolution, but change for the sake of change means I've to unlearn
years of muscle memory and relearn something that is specific to only Apple's
hardware. No thanks!

------
vr46
I didn't realize that the keyboard needed disrupting - nearly all my function
keys are mapped in Vim or used in other ways for fast switching, or other
types of automation. I can't wait to see how they flog the Magic Toolbar to
the visually impaired.

Apple have turned into Big Brother and their hardware upgrades seem inspired
by NewSpeak. Doubleplus ungood, Apple.

------
muninn_
Am I the only one questioning this "leak" ?

How often does Apple leak things on their own website?

~~~
ianferrel
They didn't leak it on their website. They leaked it _in the actual OS_.

The OS, presumably, includes a "how do I do this new thing" helper, which
shows you a picture of the hardware they're about to release (which is going
to ship with this OS).

~~~
muninn_
Looking at the post, it looks like it was something leaked on a website not
the OS. At least it did to me.

~~~
ianferrel
Both the title and the first sentence say that it was leaked in the OS. What
made you think "website"?

------
frandroid
Apple, why are you breaking something that works well. First the headphone
jack, now this.

~~~
marricks
I use function keys a lot for programming, but there's plenty of apps I don't
need them for. Having context aware buttons sounds like a nice step,
especially if it has the ability to securely store and use my credit card for
purchases.

How about going boldly into the future rather than being tied down to
something which doesn't get a ton of use in most situations!

*Edit: of course my reply doesn't have anything to do with the headphone jack. For simplicity and space removing the jack made sense, but for ease of use and standards there's good arguments for keeping the it around. I argue this case is different because it's not widely used and it's prior use (fn keys) can be duped by the magic bar.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Streamlining impulse purchases hardly feels like innovation. Feels more like
"what's left to keep AAPL stock price up?"

~~~
toyg
_> Streamlining impulse purchases hardly feels like innovation_

Tell that to Amazon.

------
ikawe
Finally, an excuse for the rest of you vi users to remap Caps Lock to escape.

You won't regret it!

------
beilabs
OK, it's time for me to dive back into the land of linux for my development
machine.

Recommendations welcome, looking for something with similar specs to current
maxed out mac airs 11".

Recommendations welcome!

~~~
matt4077
I'd recommend the current maxed out mac air 11". It's very close in specs to
what you're looking for, can run linux natively and has all the function keys
you want.

Also: it runs macOS, which is really cool as an OS.

------
exstudent2
Moves like this are quickly pushing me away from Macbooks for dev. I need a
*nix backend though. Does anyone know what the state of the art for Linux
laptops is?

~~~
matt4077
State-of-the-art is: get comfortable compiling a kernel, because you'll need
to if you want to get sound.

Oh, and when you do get sound, the wireless cuts out. You can get wireless and
sound at the same time, but only at 1024x786.

Seriously, gif you want to punish Apple by moving to Linux I can understand
that. If you actually think it's a gain in productivity, you haven't seen
linux on the desktop yet. It's like saying "enough with these kernel exploits!
We're moving to macOS on the server!"

~~~
exstudent2
I was asking to get other people's experiences to see _if_ it would be a gain
in productivity. Not sure why you're so hostile to that.

------
Esau
Yuck.

------
smegel
This seems gimicky and anti-Apple.

~~~
dabernathy89
'gimicky' seems to imply that this wouldn't be that useful - while I
understand the complaints bout removing the function keys, it seems like there
could be a lot of really cool and useful uses for the magic toolbar

------
beedogs
No escape key? This company is an absolute joke now. Guess it's back to
Windows on a PC for me.

------
aoki
am i the only one who thought: "hey, apple finally implemented the ANY key!"
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Any_key](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Any_key)

------
revelation
No function keys, so the "magic toolbar" will for 99% of the time just be a
generic toolbar?

That smacks of the Android decision to do away with physical keys and instead
just display them all the time. Wasting valuable screen real estate and power
for a bad emulation of buttons.

