

Ask HN: Is my frustration warranted? - emingo

Hopefully y&#x27;all can help me, objectively, think through this.<p>Here is a primer:
I just got a job at a startup (around ~50 employees) as a Support Engineer. This is my first job at a  startup, and I took a decent paycut (~20k). I rationalized the paycut because 1. I didn&#x27;t like Pittsburgh and wanted to move back to Colorado. 2. The company seems like it has potential for growth&#x2F;it seemed like fun work. I also made sure that the person hiring me new that I was a little uncomfortable taking the pay cut.<p>Fast Forward two months:
According to my immediate boss and the c-level people of the company I am &quot;the best new hire&quot; and that I am &quot;learning the stack at an impressive rate&quot;. I am no longer playing the role of &#x27;supporting engineer&#x27; they are now having me work on two seperate web-apps and doing some pretty hard ad challenging stuff. WHICH IS SICK! I love that aspect. I don&#x27;t mind working 70 hour weeks because the problems are so interesting. I expect to get a raise at some point, but hey it&#x27;s only been two months.<p>So what&#x27;s the problem?
 I got my first bonus yesterday, and in my contract my &#x27;max&#x27; bonus is 4k paid quarterly. I received a 200 dollar bonus... I haven&#x27;t had a chance to talk about what&#x27;s up with the tiny tiny bonus, and I don&#x27;t think i should for a few days because I am steaming. After all of the positive feedback I was expecting close to 80%-90% of my max bonus, but instead got under 50%.<p>What gives? Am I justified in being angry? How should the conversation with my immediate boss go? How would you deal with this situation.<p>edit: The role of a support engineer was basically to talk to clients and help them with integrating with our software. My role is now developing RoR apps ~25-40 hours a week while still doing the the role of the support engineer.
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brd
1) I think its smart to cool down prior to having a conversation about the
bonus. Approaching this tactfully will be important.

2) I'd absolutely call them out on this embarrassingly small bonus if only to
establish that you're not going to take insults (which this is) laying down.

3) I'd probably not even bother fighting over the 4k annual bonus. I don't
know what your current salary is but I'd imagine framing the argument as "I'm
a RoR developer now" vs "I'm an under-rewarded support engineer" will be much
more lucrative and any anchoring to the latter would only hurt that
negotiation. I'd also keep in mind this bonus incident when negotiating your
future role/salary/bonus structure with the company.

4) If they don't want to compensate you for your work, milk them for this
experience since it sounds like a significant promotion in terms of
responsibility and then run like mad to the next opportunity as soon as you
find it (and you should start looking shortly if #3 doesn't play out
favorably).

Good luck!

~~~
emingo
It's my first start up job. This is great advice. Gonna continue working hard,
have a talk with them, and start shopping, but this time for not a supporting
role.

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MalcolmDiggs
I would definitely calm down before you do anything at all. In a few startups
I've worked in the bonus structure is surprisingly simple:

\- Bonus pool is some fraction of profit for the quarter

\- Your part of that pie is proportional to your role/seniority. (Not
necessarily having anything to you with your performance for the quarter).

\- You are capped at a certain amount, just because they had to set the cap
somewhere, and you probably shouldn't expect to see anywhere near that number.

I would ask them to clarify if this is a performance-bonus or just your piece
of the pie (a form of profit sharing).

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canterburry
Remember, bonuses are discretionary and subject to the overall financial
health of the company. What affects your bonus the most is if there is any
money available for bonus payments regardless of your eligibility. Everyone on
the team may be doing awesome, but if you are not turning a profit, then where
is that money going to come from?

~~~
jpetersonmn
If it's so bad they can't give larger bonuses that $200, they should have
skipped them all together. That's just insulting.

~~~
canterburry
That I agree with.

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nicholas73
You mean the bonus was 2000 not 200 right? I think 2000 is a nice gesture for
two months in only. After all, most corporate jobs only do annual bonuses. If
it was 200, then that is just laughable and the companies either is doing
poorly or will be once its employees leave.

On the other hand your job has clearly shifted. Your discussion should be less
about the bonus (given 2k) but rather your future role and its appropriate
compensation. Choose the right time to bring it up. You may wish to wait for
the bonus to pass, so they don't use it against you, and when you deliver a
first prototype. That's when your value is obvious.

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moocow01
I'd ask your boss how the bonuses are calculated and ask how you can reach
some target (say... 3k for satisfactory performance).

If $200 is par for the course and there is no real explanation as to why, Id
personally start packing my bags in that it likely indicates that they
either... like to bait and switch on employees and don't care about morale or
they are in the hole financially.

I personally have seen a lot of bait and switch to get people in the door in
the startup world and from my experience its usually a sign that your going to
be a glutton for punishment more or less.

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rthomas6
Personally I would talk to them with the assumption that they're unhappy with
me somehow, even if I think they aren't. I'd say that I noticed my bonus was
only 5% of my maximum and I just wanted to know why my job performance was
unsatisfactory and what I could do to improve. They either respond with a
useful critique (who knows, you could be overestimating your abilities), or
the actual reason why the bonus was low.

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partisan
I received a bonus like that at a job once. I stayed there about a month after
that. They were upset when I left.

Your bosses will get away with as much as you let them. The 70 hour weeks are
on you, but you can certainly approach them to understand why they are giving
you that amount. You can explain it away by saying that you'd like to
understand where you can further improve. It is, after all, a reflection of
your performance.

If you can separate your emotions from the money, just ride it out for a year
and get back that $20k you lost by switching to a RoR developer role at
another company.

~~~
emingo
How do you ease your way back into 40 hours after they know you are capable of
working 70?

How does the conversation go... "I want my old job back?" or what?

~~~
petervandijck
Just leave on time.

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jpetersonmn
If I wasn't expecting anything and I got $200 extra out of nowhere, I'd think
that was strange, but whatever dinner on them. If I knew there was a quarterly
bonus and the max was 4k and I got $200 I'd be very insulted.

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davelnewton
Simply ask why the bonus was $200.

~~~
emingo
ya... I guess I am making it more complicated than it has to be.

I have to wait a few days I think and cool off... I've been pouring my heart
and soul into this, and this was just pretty crushing.

~~~
AznHisoka
lesson learned: don't pour your heart into something you don't have equity in.

~~~
emingo
That's a sad conclusion in my eyes.

Part of being happy for me is immersing myself in something and doing a good
job. But there is something to be said about getting taken advantage of.

