
The Future of Moving - elsewhen
https://www.axios.com/future-moving-technology-6364e183-b8fb-4db8-8310-523f04f065f6.html
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nordsieck
The elephant in the room that went unmentioned by the article is scammers.
Moving companies are notorious for holding your belongings hostage once
they're all packed up and "renegotiating" their fee.

If someone could solve that problem - not just not being a scammer, but
getting people to believe that you're not a scammer - I think they'd take over
the industry.

~~~
mherrmann
I'm surprised that's a thing. IANAL but I naively think that if they pulled
that on me I would say we had an oral agreement which is legally just as
binding as a written one. If they don't honor it, then they can unload my
stuff and remunerate me for the costs that arise in terms of my time and money
for finding someone else.

~~~
ChuckNorris89
In which country is an oral agreement legally just as binding as a written
one? In Germany oral agreements mean diddly squat, only what's written down
and signed holds weight in court. That's why the country is still big on still
using fax and snail mail for formal agreements.

~~~
mherrmann
I'm from Austria. I'd be surprised if it were different in Germany. Again, I'm
not a lawyer, but the way I've been told (by my brother, who is a lawyer) is
that written and oral are equally binding. (I'd take it this is especially so
for consumers.) Sure, you'll have a hard time proving agreement if there's no
written record. But I do not think the law requires written agreement. If the
mover says "I'll do it for 5k" and you say yes, then that is binding.

~~~
ChuckNorris89
Funny, I lived in Austria before and I had loads of shady encounters with
small and large service providers agreeing something on the phone and then not
honoring that because "I don't know who you spoke to yesterday but if it's not
in writing we can't honor it".

Car services are notorious for this behavior where they quote you a price on
the phone and after they have your car "hostage", invoice you a much higher
price. Also phone companies/ISPs where sales reps would promise you some
discounts on the phone or in person if you _sign up today_ and when your first
invoice arrives you have to pay everything in full with no discounts.

Seems to be the norm the norm in that country and not sure how you'd be able
to argue against that in court with just words and no written proof of the
contrary. God I hate Google for disabling the call recording API since Android
9.

Since then, I always ask them to send me _" what we just agreed on the phone_"
in writing via e-mail. If they refuse, I know there's a high chance they won't
honor it later.

Please let me know if I'm wrong.

------
pjc50
> Not only are young people moving more often, they're also doing smaller
> moves (with less stuff), says Carrigan

Another piece of evidence about the "precariat" of young workers ...

Anyway, if someone wants a multibillion-dollar idea that may require more than
a billion dollars of work, the technological solution needed here is "home
inventory management".

There are a few startups that will let you wave a phonecam around a room and
produce a floorplan from it. There are a few things like Google Lens that will
identify products one at a time. What there isn't is a good quick way of
scanning a room for all the _stuff_ in it.

Once you can do that, you can inventory it all on the way onto the truck and
on the way off the truck. You can assign a value to it. You could even offer
the arbitrage service of "it's cheaper to sell this here and buy a new one at
the destination, do you want to do that?"

~~~
vageli
>What there isn't is a good quick way of scanning a room for all the stuff in
it.

This would be incredible for insurance documentation, too.

~~~
ghaff
Having just gone through a family situation with a fire, the fact that there
was a pretty good inventory of the house was incredibly useful. I really need
to do it for myself but haven't gotten around to it; it's a big job.

I figure that, as a way better than nothing first cut, a low-effort approach
may be to simply do a detailed walk through with a video camera and record
commentary.

------
thinkingkong
The Japanese have moving down to a science. Id normally be reluctant to post
any youtube links[1] here but this is an excellent overview.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynEjnebw8LA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynEjnebw8LA)

~~~
HenryBemis
I thought of the same exact video (they got the service for free in return for
the video/promo/shout-out).

I have watched most episodes of Shark Tank. I remember than when a 'pitcher'
starts with the phrase "XYZ industry is a $$$$ billion business in the U.S.,
look like an upcoming target for disruption", the sharks start rolling their
eyes. That person usually doesn't get the funding.

> As we've reported, Americans are generally moving less

We (the people not living in the USA) think that USA residents buy and sell
houses 'frequently'. Buy --> wait --> price goes up --> sell --> buy the next
house.

I think that a critical contribution to moving less is the financial crisis
2008-2018 it would make sense that people were stuck to the houses they
bought, unable to perform the aforementioned loop, thus moving less.

~~~
chatmasta
It's not just people who own houses that have to move between them. Most
millennials haven't even bought a house yet. But they still need to move
between apartments, and that happens on more frequent time scales than someone
buying/selling their home. If I had to guess, the average lease in a city for
20-30 year old tenants is between 1 and 3 years. It's not uncommon to move
three times in a five year period.

~~~
ghaff
Part of it is that, if you're single and renting, you're probably more likely
to move closer to a new job to avoid even a relatively modest increase in
commute time. Whereas, if you own a place--especially if there are other
considerations like a partner or kids--you'll likely just suck up a longer
commute to stay where you are.

------
gfxgirl
I don't know if it's changed but at least at one point the USA moving industry
was super corrupt. There was a 60 Minutes episode on it decades ago. Here's a
more modern version

[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/spartan-van-lines-moving-
scams-...](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/spartan-van-lines-moving-scams-
florida-crackdown-attorney-general/)

I had a TV stolen the one time I used movers instead of doing it myself.

------
m463
I've always wondered why containerization hasn't become a player in personal
moving.

I think I looked at PODS and the like when moving, but they have non-standard
containers and end up being kind of expensive.

I know it can be done, because the SO of a friend of mine moved from the US to
guam and got the container I believe for $1200.

~~~
stevenicr
I've been kicking this idea around for a while now.

Just two weeks ago I was texting with a former associate about getting some 53
containers, cutting them up into 5, 8x8x10 cubes and welding what's needed for
a few other mods.

I'm thinking to myself, if we can sell these for $1300(?) it would be a good
value for some situaitons right?

I've seen some of the problems and come up with a few solutions for a few of
them, so it might be viable.

His dad moved his steel shop business, and I have not gotten a chance to get
out to the new one.. but think maybe next week we should try to calculate
things tighter and consider further.

Might need some seed money to get some prototypes done to show off an MVP and
get a real calculation for all the time plus materials.

~~~
ghaff
So essentially a half-length TEU? The question that comes to my mind is "what
are the use cases?" While the concept of loading up a cube and having it
transported to a new location has some attractions, there are a _lot_ of
situations (apartments, condos) where there really isn't any place to drop off
something like that for loading or unloading. (Which would presumably be the
advantage over just renting a van or small truck.)

~~~
stevenicr
The target market it going to be more for people who are moving into homes
that have a backyard that can accept and keep a portable storage building.

The usefulness with condos / apartments is much less, and some townhomes /
non-attached homes can't fit or have na HOA that would not allow for portable
building in backyard - so they would mostly be out for this idea..

however they could use the unit to protect the shipment and then sell or loan
to someone else in the area that could use a storage building.

With that in mind, part of my plan is to add siding and have roof options that
make this look more like a regular storage building and less like a shipping
container, so they fit in more places.

This way they are used for shipping, then also used for storage and can be re-
used for shipping or re-sold, etc.

Pricing for regular storage buildings vary, but it seems they are in line with
this maybe.. so it might catch on.

------
sj4nz
While it is painful to move, the frequency for repeat customers will doom most
disruptors. An established company with a massive network like U-Haul could do
it except for the fact that moving things is a skill that people consider to
be "just manual labor" and avoid paying accordingly.

For apartments though, I could see a "house concierge moving" as-a-service
being a possible disruption of established moving companies. E.g. they move
you for "free" for appropriately long and priced lease. The "hostage holding"
of your goods is a non-event here since the goal is to have a happy tenant.

------
syntaxing
Moved from the East Coast to the West Coast. The moving industry seriously
needs some "disruptive technology". I don't think that a gig economy is the
way to go but moving should not be this absurdly stressful.

~~~
grawprog
Well, the main problem that needs to be solved is, you need a reliable way of
packing, storing and moving one or more person's stuff from one location to
another and possibly and possibpy unpacking on arrival on a specific date.

As it is now, the solutions to these problems have varying levels of self
reliance. At the bottom, most simple, with highest level of self reliance

\- Own, borrow or rent a truck, pack your own things, drive your own things to
your destination, return truck if not yours. Requires packing loading and
driving everything yourself. Price can vary but usually cheaper than movers.

Next you've got:

\- Random personal ad people with trucks. Not usually professional companies,
varying levels of quality and reliability from, will probably smash and lose
your shit to basically a professional. Vehicles come varying sizes, may not be
suitable for large or high end moves. Price varies, quality tends to
correspond with price.

\- Professional movers, varying levels of quality from will probably not break
your stuff to will dust off and spit shine everything you own. Service can
vary from simple loading transport and unloading to complete packing, loading,
transport, unloading and unpacking. Cost can get high.

\- Container options. These have much of the same upsides and downsides as a
truck rental, with the fun of dealing with shipping.

All of these suffer from problems with shortage of booking around common
moving days, a problem that has more to do with the way moves tend to be
either the end or the the middle of the month.

Anything that involves other people handling your property will have a risk of
poor reliability. Movers are one of those professions, similar to landscaping
and other jobs that are physically demanding, but not that difficult, so tends
to be a lower paid job companies fill with unskilled and temporary labourers,
the reliability of whom can be questionable.

I've probably missed some things, but after moving only a few months ago, this
is kind of the summary of what I found available. I just can't really think of
anything that could really do it any better under those constraints.

~~~
chatmasta
You can also pack your stuff into boxes and ship it via FedEx to a package
pickup point near your new house.

It doesn't work for furniture, but it can go a long way.

~~~
ghaff
I would assume anything small/light enough to be easily shipped via FedEx
could also fit into a reasonably-sized personal vehicle. Renting a one-way van
is a fairly straightforward way to move a modest amount of stuff although you
do have to plan ahead if you're moving at a busy time.

~~~
chatmasta
Or you're moving across the country and want to fly.

~~~
ghaff
Well, sure, if you don't have a car and basically just have the equivalent of
a dozen suitcases of stuff or so to transport. Personally, I haven't had that
small amount of things since I entered college. Perhaps I'd be more compact
these days with digital media and so forth, but I doubt I'm all that unusual.

~~~
chatmasta
I've lost count of how many times I've moved in the last 6 years since
college. For the big moves, I just sold my furniture before leaving. Other
than that, I pretty much fit your description.

If you're renting you really shouldn't be spending on furniture anyway, just
get rid of it.

------
bsder
I sincerely doubt moving is ripe for "disruption". Moving is _all about_
managing the humans. That doesn't scale and isn't affected by technology. The
biggest problem is making sure that _NONE_ of the humans involved in the
process suck.

Graebel has moved me every single time I have had to move across the US. They
have moved me almost a dozen times. The packers and unpackers showed up
somewhere between 30 minutes to an hour _early_. They will pack and inventory
your entire house--in no more than 2 days. The truck driver will load in no
more than a day, and generally about half of one. The truck driver will beat
you to your destination if you dawdle at all. They will unpack at destination,
and put it in your cupboards and closets if you are there to direct them. The
packing will be amazing and everything will get there with no broken pieces.
And, to this day, I am convinced that the _single_ box that disappeared was my
fault somehow. And Graebel handled _everything_ when something went wrong--
packer missing? another guy dispatched within an hour. Big rig can't get into
complex? Small relay truck dispatched immediately. Truck broke down--another
one dispatched transparently to grab the load and keep it moving. Trucker got
in early--truck unloaded into storage and delivered on smaller rig.

This has cost me somewhere around $5K-$6K each time--Graebel would have
_definitely_ charged more if they thought they could get away with it (they
should have--I would have paid it). You are talking easily 125 man-hours or
more. That's about $40-$48 an hour if everything went to labor and the truck
driver--and it doesn't. You have all of the people in the offices coordinating
everything, you have all the fleet and logistics management as well as storage
spaces. I suspect that people are probably around $20/hour or less when all is
said and done.

I have had _HORDES_ of people with moving horror stories, and yet I had never
had one. Apparently, Graebel was so much better than the rest of the industry
that it prevented this.

And yet the old Graebel is no more--I have no idea who to call the next time I
have to move. Apparently people would rather have their stuff broken and
stolen rather than pay the people handling your valuables enough to avoid the
problem.

This is just like the airlines. People claim to be unhappy, but when push
comes to shove, they're such cheap bastards that they'll buy the $10 cheaper
ticket and either get nickle and dimed to death or get treated like sardines
in a tin can.

Edit: The US _HAD_ a moving company like the Japanese one below. And it went
under because Americans are too fscking cheap.

(Video link courtesy of thinkingkong elsewhere in thread)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynEjnebw8LA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynEjnebw8LA)

~~~
Kihashi
$5-6K for a move is a pretty substantial amount of money. In addition to
paying the first month's rent + deposit that is the norm in a lot of places- I
doubt most people can afford that level of service. I don't think it's because
"they're such cheap bastards".

~~~
bsder
> $5-6K for a move is a pretty substantial amount of money.

No argument, but that's probably the lower bound for competence. If you aren't
willing to pay that, congratulations, you have decided to do everything
yourself. As I pointed out, there are a _LOT_ of man-hours involved in moving
and the employees involved are probably around $20/hour. That's a bit above
the $15/hour wage that seems to denote above average competence (Target and
Costco are both at $15/hour minimum--Costco goes up from there).

As for that $5K, you can pay it in cash; you can pay it in time; you can pay
it in grief. Choose your currency.

