
Nextspace – NeXTSTEP-like desktop environment for Linux - valeg
https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace
======
peatmoss
I imagine a world in which the F/OSS community chose to implement and innovate
on GNUStep or some other OpenSTEP/NeXT/Cocoa compatible implementation. This
project is exciting by way of providing a more complete nucleus of what that
desktop might look like.

The KDE/Gnome schism really divided the mindshare of the open *nix desktop. If
we’d gone this route, I like to imagine the differences between Mac and Linux
or BSD would be small enough that

\- Mac apps would be a recompile away from running on Linux

And

\- Linux would be a viable developer environment to target macOS

Apple’s commitment to the desktop has waned and caused some longtime users
like me to go back to Linux/BSD. Meanwhile, desktop facilities on Linux/BSD
have lacked coherence and singularity of vision. A viable, modern post-
OpenSTEP Linux and BSD desktop would have the capacity to keep Apple honest,
while giving the Free community a benchmark for consistency.

I’d love to see something like this project blossom into a 3rd way GUI layer
for Linux and BSD.

~~~
pankajdoharey
Actually Gnome when it started was really good. I remember around 2000 same
time as Redhat Linux 6, Gnome worked perfectly. But for some reason Gnome
community wasnt satisfied so they started modifying it so much that it worked
more like Windows, when they were still not satisfied they wanted to become
more like Mac with fancy animations and a Dock. Which is why very few use
gnome these days. Gnome people have lost their way. Now its just a community
of confused people, same applies to KDE. A more well disciplined community is
i3, mint and elementary.

~~~
Un1corn
>Which is why very few use gnome these days

Where did you get that info from? GNOME is the default on Debian, Ubuntu
(probably the most popular distro) and Fedora

~~~
simion314
Maybe OP was thinking of people that chose the DE and are not using the
default because they don't know there is an alternative.

Unfortunately in Linux community telemetry is controversial so we do not have
accurate data on what people chose when they have a choice, surveys on reddit
or other web pages are not reliable

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rogual
> I intentionally left aside modern UI design trends (fancy animations,
> shadows, gray blurry lines, flat controls, acid colours, transparency). I
> like this accurate, clear, grayish, boring UI that just not hinder to get my
> job done...

Amen! The UI in the screenshots looks very tasteful to me, and it's nice to
see somebody not conflating “no-nonsense” with “ugly programmer art”.

Looking forward to giving this a try.

~~~
ttty
When I read your comment I thought is going to look clean and nice... Looks
like win 98... Not at all tasteful to me

~~~
HHest
Compare the nextspace screenshot to the nextstep screenshot, and one can see
they are appreciably different.

nextspace:
[https://raw.githubusercontent.com/trunkmaster/nextspace/mast...](https://raw.githubusercontent.com/trunkmaster/nextspace/master/Documentation/NEXTSPACE_Screenshot.png)

nextstep:
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1d/NeXTSTEP_desk...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1d/NeXTSTEP_desktop.png)

~~~
SSLy
I don't see anything really standing out between these two.

~~~
HHest
Sorry for the late response. The biggest difference to my eyes is the color
choices. Although this was many years ago, I recall that the nextstep color
scheme was very muted, tending to scale of grays rather than contrasting
colors. The wikipedia screenshot seems to confirm my memory.

The nextspace screenshot shows apps and icons with very bright colors.
Nowadays icons and apps tend to be colorful, and since they follow different
color schemes, a collection of them has a high probability of clashing (e.g.
the gray Gimp next to the orange Firefox.)

Nextstep could maintain a consistent aesthetic, I think, because: 1) there
were not many apps available on it as there are now on nextspace, and 2) a
single company, which had a notoriously style conscious CEO, produced these
apps. Nowadays, apps are produced by different groups, with different tastes
(let alone skills) in designs.

Nextspace faces the problem of maintaining the muted and clean style of
nextstep, in a more diversified world. That's what I was reacting to.

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peterwwillis
I really like WindowMaker and similar clones, but _(warning: ranting)_ I
partially abandoned it because of how absurd it is to try to run a Linux
system without DBUS-native tooling, which mostly only exists in GUIs for
specific window managers/docks. Unless you're using one of a few popular
desktop environments, Linux is a shitshow of bad user interface (and even some
of them like Ubuntu seem to lack functionality that used to exist). I'm
probably moving to Windows soon just so I don't have to spend _days_ to get an
affordable machine from 2 years ago to achieve basic hardware functionality
like "graphics" and "wifi".

~~~
blackhaz
Interesting. And I've recently moved to FreeBSD and let it imitate a Mac with
Xfce, and I have graphics, Wi-Fi, black jack and hookers [1]. I never thought
this level of imitation would be possible in the free world.

[1] [http://trafyx.com/?p=2551](http://trafyx.com/?p=2551)

~~~
cmroanirgo
> [1] [http://trafyx.com/?p=2551](http://trafyx.com/?p=2551)

Very nice. To me, the biggest things I have grown to love since moving to a
mac are:

\- Spotlight (& I use it far less than most). You mention Desktop Search as
the replacement. Have you wired it up to cmd+space?

\- Time Machine (the way it handles going back in time for your current Finder
window is awesome). For me, an rsync solution is a poor cousin to Time
Machine, purely because of the graphic aspect. It would be awesome to know of
a FOSS equivalent to it (but would need to work with your current file
manager: thunar).

~~~
blackhaz
Thanks. I don't use the Desktop Search that often but I think one can bind a
shortcut to it. On the rsync, I can mount the remote file system and browse
through the backups in the Double Commander or Thunar, so the graphical aspect
is fully there. Plus, I have reports in the Terminal when the last successful
backup was done. I don't really think I miss anything.

Edit: the rsync setup to do incremental backups and naming backup folders
after the day of the week is mentioned on the rsync's home:
[https://rsync.samba.org/examples.html](https://rsync.samba.org/examples.html)
It's interesting how much more creative backups can be when you have full
control over rsync on which, if I am not wrong, the Time Machine itself is
built.

------
bmn__
To save interested hackers the time: not a single configure script, makefile
or specfile is in working condition.

~~~
trunkmaster
Did you try to follow this
[https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace/wiki/Build-and-
inst...](https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace/wiki/Build-and-install)?

------
stesch
When I switched from Amiga to Linux in 1995 I thought that I will have a
perfect NeXTSTEP clone within a few months. I saw pictures of GNUStep and it
looked nearly ready to go.

Ha!

------
Fnoord
On the bottom they mentioned [1] Etoile.

[1] [http://etoileos.com](http://etoileos.com)

~~~
IronBacon
Thanks, I was trying to recall this one. Looks like it didn't gained traction
tho.

------
itomato
I haven't dug into the code, but how does this differ from GWorkspace and
other GNUstep components (Prefs, Terminal, Login, et .)?

~~~
peatmoss
I've not dug deeper than reading the page and looking at the screenshots, but
it looks like he’s making some sane default choices such as to use WindowMaker
for the dock rather than GWorkspace’s dock. And it appears he's working to put
more and more into the Prefs app (rather than, for example, configuring
WindowMaker through WindowMaker’s preference manager app).

GNUStep already has quite a lot there for making a desktop. What it’s lacking
is the implementation of the desktop. This, on the surface, appears to be an
attempt to round that out.

~~~
newnewpdro
I'm not sure using WindowMaker is sane at all.

WindowMaker is a completely isolated C implementation with its own GUI
toolkit. It's not integrated at all with the rest of GNUStep. It only
_appears_ NeXT-like, it's a facade.

GNUStep should ulimately replace it, if this is to be some kind of NeXTSTEP
replica beyond skin-deep appearances.

~~~
trunkmaster
Workspace is a new application that contains WindowMaker. And it _is_ fully
integrated with GNUstep applications. This is not a facade, this is how
OPENSTEP feels. Just give it a try.

------
justin_vanw
So this is basically OSX but take away 30 years of human-computer interaction
learnings and UI improvements.

~~~
dmix
Considering I spend 99% of my time either in a terminal or a web browser, I
don't think it will have too much of an affect, unless the UX of either of
those two are diminished. For years I used a very barebones Linux desktop (a
minimalist tiled VM) and was very happy and productive with it. The former is
largely why.

But I don't think the point was a 'better' desktop but an interesting or
experimental one. Or simply just for fun.

We can often relearn valuable things from the past by recreating them. It's
usually not enough to just look at pictures of it or hear stories. Plus many
"new" UX and software problems were dealt with in the past and reappear later
with new platforms, hardware, and UI concepts which start over from scratch.

~~~
AnIdiotOnTheNet
> Considering I spend 99% of my time either in a terminal or a web browser, I
> don't think it will have too much of an affect

Sure, for you, because apparently you just need a web kiosk and an ssh server.
Some of us actually do want a personal desktop computer.

~~~
dmix
Yes, obviously it's just for a certain niche. Did you think the "Nextspace"
linux desktop environment was for mainstream consumption?

------
orbitingpluto
WindowMaker was a perfectly functional touch interface circa 2008 using
VNC/SSH on a Nokia N810 tethered to a N95 with a slow 3G connection.

It just worked.

I miss that separation between the phone and the mobile platform.

------
towndrunk
Is there instructions on how a newbie can install this?

~~~
towndrunk
I found it...

[https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace/wiki/Build-and-
inst...](https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace/wiki/Build-and-install)

------
rhabarba
Being a happy Window Maker user, I like that I will have more choices in the
future. Etoile seems dead.

------
adammenges
Huh, this is pretty cool, if anything as something to install in a VM and get
a blast from the past

------
stevedekorte
This is great. Nice work.

------
fouc
Thanks for the naming explanation linked in the readme. That almost seems like
a case study to warn of the dangers of using case sensitivity to reference
different things.

------
purplezooey
What about WindowMaker?

------
bitwize
Fantastic. If I ever run a DE again, I'm running this.

------
Ezhik
Oh how I'd love to have Quartz/Aqua/Finder on top of Linux.

------
andrewstuart
I loved NextSTEP so I bought a Mac, which IS NextSTEP, only better.

~~~
protomyth
I miss the NeXTSTEP menus, that Mac toolbar is horrid on large monitors. Also,
the Finder is a poor second compared to Workspace Manager. The lack of EOF and
the Digital Librarian is painful.

~~~
sgt
The Mac toolbar is thin and neat - not sure how that qualifies as "horrid"? I
am using a 27" monitor.

~~~
protomyth
I have a 34” monitor, so scrolling up to the upper left every time I need to
select a menu item is horrid. Plus, they got rid of the amazingly useful tear
off menu customization. The Mac toolbar is a big step backwards.

~~~
sgt
Then just use CTRL-F2, it's a shortcut to select the menu item. Although with
such a big monitor, I'd say the biggest challenge is to move your eyes all the
way up to where the menu bar might be. Unless of course you're sitting 10 feet
away.

~~~
protomyth
Ok, but missing the point if I have to use a keyboard to make it work better.
The menu bar on the NeXT was a joy, obvious, and right next to where I was
working.

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htor
beautiful. in a weird way it almost looks modern.

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hestefisk
This reminds me of Afterstep.

------
ericfrederich
CDE!

~~~
nonamenoslogan
Hear hear, been my daily user environment since they open-sourced it what, 5
years ago?

