
CRISPR-baby scientist fired by university - jbsimpson
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00246-2
======
state_less
I feel like this turns babies into technology. We might have version 1 where
babies aren't likely to get HIV or some other malady. Next round, perhaps
we'll see more height, different skin color, increased intelligence. If it's
like any other product, it appears babies would be coming out of a factory and
with tiers for different features you can buy based on your purchasing power.
Sort of like buying an iPhone except with babies.

Commercializing children doesn't seem right, but then should the technology be
held back and children be damned to suffer for the sake of keeping the status
quo? Is there a just way to deal with this?

~~~
bilbo0s
The worst part is that by the time they were in Kindergarten, the newer models
would obsolete them.

Bigger, faster, stronger, and _MUCH_ smarter! Now 10% off!

~~~
zavi
I'm 26 right now and I'm not planning to have kids until I'm 35 for this exact
reason. I don't want my kid to say: "Daddy, why do other kids have disease
resistance and I don't? Do you not love me? Or were you one of those stupid
anti-CRISPRers who don't believe in science (the anti-vaxxers of the next
decades)?"

I'd rather wait for 5-10 years to make sure I don't make a lifelong mistake.

~~~
SamReidHughes
Every year you wait, your sperms carry more and more mutations.

~~~
zavi
Sperm frozen in a foreign cryobank since 2017

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SamReidHughes
Nice. (Why foreign?)

~~~
zavi
It's cheaper.

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porpoisely
I've read that He self-funded the project. Anyone know if he comes from wealth
or how he got the funds to run a team of scientists? Also, it's interesting
that he was a trained physicist who turned to gene modification experiments.
Is CRISPR and gene editing the popular draw in academia and research? I've
always assumed academics mainly stayed in their lane, so to speak.

As for the ethics, if gene editing research is inevitable and/or simple as
claimed, then perhaps it should be carried out in public universities so as to
prevent glory seeking people from causing unnecessary harm. Also, perhaps
anyone who carries out gene editing should be held financially liable and even
criminally liable for any damage to individuals.

If CRISPR and gene editing lives up to its hype, it feels like we are on the
cusp of a brave new world.

~~~
daveFNbuck
Gene editing research is being carried out in public universities. It's not
yet at the point where edited human embryos are carried to term.

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foo101
> The investigation also found that He’s experiment ran counter to national
> regulations forbidding people with HIV from using assisted reproduction — an
> allegation reported for the first time in the Xinhua article.

What is the rationale behind this regulation? Is it that the baby is likely to
be infected with HIV or is there some other reason?

~~~
rqs
Well, if you want to dig more, I've found one regulation[0](technical standard
rather) mentioning something maybe related. It says, I quote:

> 2、禁忌症

> （1）有如下情况之一者，不得实施体外受精-胚胎移植及其衍技术

> ① 男女任何一方患有严重的精神疾患、泌尿生殖系统急性感染、性传播疾病；

> ② 患有《母婴保健法[1]》规定的不宜生育的、目前无法进行胚胎植入前遗传学诊断的遗传性疾病；

> ...

Translated to English and overly sum up: IVF-ET is forbidden if:

1, The donor or the receptor is currently carrying STD (Or genitourinary
infection, or severe mental illness);

2, The patient not recommended to be pregnant according to the
《母婴保健法[1]》(Mother and child health-care law);

3, The patient is suffering from hereditary diseases that cannot be diagnosed
with Preimplantation Genetic Diagnosis.

The rationale that you are curious about is still unknown here, but I do think
this document and the law mentioned can be a good start if you want to figure
it out. Sadly though, this field is far out of my range of knowledge, I can't
even translate most of them for you (And That page on npc.gov.cn is still
loading after 5 mins of waiting).

[0]
[http://www.moh.gov.cn/open/uploadfile/2005112816435508.doc](http://www.moh.gov.cn/open/uploadfile/2005112816435508.doc)
(人类辅助生殖技术规范)

[1]
[http://www.npc.gov.cn/wxzl/gongbao/2000-12/05/content_500462...](http://www.npc.gov.cn/wxzl/gongbao/2000-12/05/content_5004627.htm)
(母婴保健法)

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AlphaWeaver
I know this is the current title of the article, but would it possible to
entitled the article "He Jiankui (CRISPR-baby scientist) fired by university"?
While I'll refrain from commenting on his work, he is a real person and has a
name...

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drvortex
And yet, most people do not care.

The elephant in the room is, did the gene editing work? If yes, are those
babies protected from HIV?

If yes...the world is not the same anymore.

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aasasd
Atrocious! Babies' interest in science should be supported, not squashed.

~~~
colordrops
I normally prefer humor to stay on Reddit, but nice one.

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rfreiberger
Given the age of the babies and CRISPR technology, how long before we find a
rush of Olympic records suddenly broken by surprise athletes?

~~~
anonytrary
You mean, how long until the olympic records stop being important to society?
There are many things that were made obsolete by technology. Exerting human
strength for sport may be made obsolete, and that wouldn't be a bad thing.

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sam0x17
translation: the experiment didn't work so China is disavowing him. This would
have played out differently if he had succeeded I would be willing to bet.

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jostmey
Direct gene editing was invented about 45 years ago. I am surprised, even
shocked, that no one tried this until now. CRISPR has certainly made it easier
to do, but other techniques have existed since the 70s.

He Jiankui is being vilified now, but I wonder how history will remember him
(if at all)

~~~
api
I am not at all opposed to the idea of gene editing, but I wonder if the issue
here isn't that he didn't have proper medical authorization to do this. Most
countries have laws against cowboy medicine for a reason.

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jostmey
If you seek medical authorization, you will find that no one will approve it

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kingkawn
Because it will most likely lead to inhumane atrocities that would turn the
general public against the technology for a generation

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anonytrary
This anti-science stance is one based on fear, and that's not how society
advances. Nothing should be banned from experiment and testing in controlled
labs. Banning things preemptively out of fear is a sorry display of hubris. We
do not know what technologies will be good or bad until we research and try
them.

~~~
kingkawn
My perspective is an attempt to save this branch of research from annihilation
in the public eye. This type of alteration of human beings is a supremely
sensitive subject. Women are hardly permitted abortions in peace without
bringing down political hell on them. What makes you think this research would
not attract similar or worse scrutiny unless it is conducted with a degree of
caution that would be excessive in any other endeavor?

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cheeze
Does anybody really believe that China is upholding strong ethical standards
here? Sure the uni dumped this guy, but I'd assume there is a large project
that the government is at minimum aware of to edit genes.

~~~
songco
Maybe many countries have similar secret projects.... but obviously public
projects are not allowed.

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SudoEpoch
I really thought China would take a lesser stance on this publically. This
ordeal is surprising in a sense that they are going to have a real health
crisis in the next 25 years along with population issue.

