
Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system - ghosh
http://www.firstpost.com/india/nadella-as-microsoft-ceo-a-slap-in-the-face-for-indian-system-1374951.html
======
mhurron
“We are all human beings, and our nationality is simply an accident of birth.”

This is my position on the Olympics and basically all national pride. It has
nothing to do with anything, there is nothing to be proud of.

No one cares when I think it, it's nice to see others say it.

~~~
coldtea
> _“We are all human beings, and our nationality is simply an accident of
> birth.”_

Well, this is obviously wrong.

Birth is not just a random momentary thing. It involves your parents. And they
already had a nationality too. You couldn't have been born by any two random
other people and still be the same person (DNA, childhood raising, education,
food, native language, et al).

Second, you is not your birth only. It's also your upbringing, the culture you
grew up in, the state/legal/etc environment you were raise, the language you
spoke, the cuisine you were raised with, heck, even the national TV channels
you were watching while growing up.

Would anybody dare to say the same thing to a black person? Nah, your culture
and stuff is nothing, you could just as well be white? He'd be totally right
to tell you to fuck off, for he has lived his culture (including bad treatment
by white folks) all his life -- he knows that he being black wasn't just some
"accident of birth", but an identity. Even a kid grewing up in Brooklyn by
European Jews owes a lot to both Brooklyn and to him descending from European
Jews (just ask Woody Allen).

It's also a potentially harmful way to see things. It's basically just an
excuse to feel independent and non-connected and owning solidarity to anyone.
Home country in danger? "Fuck it, I'll just flee. After all, it's only me, me,
me that matters".

(You can feel solidarity for other nationalities and countries while also
feeling pride and solidarity for your own people. Feeling solidarity for other
people when you don't even care about your own is a little more difficult,
despite those people paying lip service to "we're all one").

~~~
mindcrime
_Well, this is obviously wrong._

Well, despite how obvious it is to you, you totally failed to convince me.

 _Home country in danger? "Fuck it, I'll just flee. After all, it's only me,
me, me that matters"_

Yes, and? Nationalism is the problem, not the solution. Oh, I understand the
reasons articulated by the evolutionary psychologists for why humans are
cliquish and tribal, and that all makes perfect sense. But we have the
capacity for logic and higher order reasoning and we can transcend primal
instincts like that if we want. And I think we should.

~~~
BlackDeath3
>Yes, and? Nationalism is the problem, not the solution. Oh, I understand the
reasons articulated by the evolutionary psychologists for why humans are
cliquish and tribal, and that all makes perfect sense. But we have the
capacity for logic and higher order reasoning and we can transcend primal
instincts like that if we want. And I think we should.

I agree, and argue this all the time.

Yes, I understand that nationality does affect me. Yes, I understand that
human instinct is to "be social". But is that reason to spit in the face of a
rational argument against a social problem?

------
Spooky23
The article makes a good point, but people like symbols -- they help to
compress the complexities of life and make the bigger point.

The idea that someone like you -- either nationally, ethnically or by some
other characteristic can achieve something so big can be inspirational. That's
a good thing.

Just to put it in a personal perspective, when my grandmother learned about my
first big promotion as a "bigshot computer guy", it brought her to tears. To
her, it was reinforcement that our family had "made it". She originally came
from an agricultural background -- to her, I was a superstar. Kids in India
now have another source of inspiration. Not a bad thing.

------
quchen
Statistically, it compares the single case of Nadella to the statistical blob
of people that is the "Indian system". Tough comparison when there are a
billion of Indians, and the other dozen examples given don't change that.

Politically, it calls the US not being nationalist (or at least hostile
towards Indians in particular) in this case a "slap in the face".

Just no.

~~~
moron4hire
My feeling exactly. The idea that one man's decision to live and work in
another country besmirches his originally country decades later when he finds
great success is itself the real insult here.

~~~
couchand
That may be the headline but there's a lot more nuance. One of the stronger
points made is that no Indian-born Nobel laureate is an Indian citizen.

~~~
moron4hire
I found the article to be pretty blind to its own classist problems. There is
a lot of referring to groups of people, classifying people, without
recognizing that the achievements are individual achievements. He is part of
the problem that he is complaining about.

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andyjohnson0
Since it isn't explained in the article:

IIT:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Institutes_of_Technology](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Institutes_of_Technology)

IIM:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Institutes_of_Management](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Institutes_of_Management)

~~~
dhaneshnm
It is interesting that, Nadella is from Manipal Institute and not a product of
"elite" IIT/IIM system. It is rare to see an Indian born techie, doing well
abroad, not from the IIT/IIM system.

~~~
middleclick
Another exception to this is Shantanu Narayen (Adobe CEO) who is not from
IIT/IIM.

------
mirmali
This is a typical 'Election Cycle' article that you will see in Indian Media
these days. Do not fall for anything that the author says. If you read past
the first two paragraphs you will notice a distinct theme; supporting a
particular political party while dissing the current political power in India.

------
finishingmove
A slap in the face indeed, but not in the way it's presented. I admire the
Indian people, and what prompted me to respond here were the comments below
that article more than the article itself.

They were what I expected to find, "We are pathetic, we are whiners, we are
losers.". I used to think the same about my country. Until I realized that
decades and centuries of exploitation at the hands of malicious outside forces
are what brought us to it. And then it became obvious it was not our fault.

I suggest reading "Das Kapital" or even "Imperialism, the Highest Stage of
Capitalism". Hopefully it will help you realize why and how are other nations
collecting your intellectual and other assets.

~~~
marcosdumay
Well, unless there are other countries literally wiling to invade yours if you
don't let them exploit you, that exploitation is your (colective) fault, and
your people are the ones capable of stopping it. If that's the case, just
accept that it's up to you to make a better place, and act acordingly.

Now, if there are other countries with guns pointed your way, well, people
from India can tell you better about that than I can.

------
dhaneshnm
"If Satya Nadella had remained in India,he would probably be working as a
coder in Infosys or TCS. Earning a high salary no doubt, but an unlikely
candidate for CEO"

TCS(Tata Consultancy Services) CEOs, current or past, were not from IITs.

~~~
kamaal
Are you serious?

Nandan Nilekani was hired at Infosys as a programmer. He ultimately went on to
become the CEO.

~~~
dhaneshnm
The line in quotes is from the article. I was trying to counter it by citing
TCS CEOs were not IITians. I should have made it more explicit.

------
grannyg00se
Isn't this just a matter of being in the best environment for what you are
trying to achieve? Is it a slap in the face to Canadian arts and culture every
time an actor leaves and moves to LA? There are some realities involved and
doing what's best for yourself shouldn't be interpreted as some personal
attack against your culture. There should be no expectation that your country
of origin would get preferential treatment when weighing the options.

~~~
couchand
I don't think the author is expecting any special treatment, but rather
questioning why the local option seems so dead-end to so many young go-
getters.

------
thinkpad20
I see a lot of parallels here with the Japanese system. Similarly, the system
seems to encourage conformism and rote learning over disruptive ideas and
innovation. Similarly, their top universities have phenomenally competitive
admissions, even though they are not ranked particularly high internationally.
Similarly, many of their systems are characterized by endless paperwork and
bureaucracy.

Of course, there are certainly innumerable ways in which the two countries
diverge. Japan has been economically far more successful in the last few
centuries, and has a very respectable number of Nobel laureates, most of whom
have remained in Japan. But I do think a lot of the criticism of India leveled
here is applicable there.

(Source: I lived there for a few years and am reasonably
culturally/linguistically fluent)

~~~
vagarwa
My view - The biggest difference is the underlying system (law, bureaucracy
and even infrastructure)still being used in India is the one built to extract
and export resources out as efficiently as possible. That's the legacy of 150
years of colonialism and Indians simply have never been able to do the
challenging work (various reasons) of changing these but for a few word
changes here and there. This is most stark in nation's civil and police
services.

~~~
shortsightedsid
Don't quite agree; it's time we stop putting the colonial legacy as a reason.
The reason? It's been 65 years since colonialism ended and that's enough time
to fix things. A lot of things have been fixed too but the real problem is a
huge population. It's trivial to fix things for 1 million people compared to
the 1.2 billion people and that's the real problem; not colonial legacy.

------
Beliavsky
The article's criticism of IIT and IIM (elite Indian universities) could be
made of the elite U.S. schools too:

"The short point: our system is designed to keep people out, not get them in.
The true value of an IIT or IIM is not the intellectual capital they produce,
but their filtering expertise – which keeps all but the superlisters out of
these institutions. When the people entering the institution are the best
among the best, they will shine no matter what the quality of faculty or the
curriculum."

~~~
Guvante
Not to mention when it is that hard to get in it becomes difficult to really
test your students.

Thus you end up with graduating from an Ivy League school basically meaning
got into an Ivy League school.

------
marshally
The headline is inflammatory linkbait.

The article context is thoughtful, introspective, and focused mainly on what
India could change internally to be more inclusive and help give people a leg
up.

It is disappointing that the headline is drawing the online discussion away
from the meat of the article.

But such is linkbait.

------
mkartic
Comparing IIT/IIM entrance exams to caste system is a very cheap shot. IITs
are no more exclusionists than Harvard or MIT. Its the country's premier place
for education, so everyone is going to want to study there.

~~~
gohrt
I, for one, believe that Harvard/MIT/Stanford have a habit of "picking
winners" not in line with egalitarian meritocracy (promoting those willing and
able to learn), a system for "converting privilege to credentials" as is said
-- witness the bias in tech company hiring practices, and the classic
"management consulting" culture, where CEOs and government leaders higher
newly-minted Ivy grads to rubber-stamp the leader's choices and provide cover
for their decisions.

~~~
hga
I'm not at all familiar with Stanford's admissions system, but lumping in
MIT's with the official Ivies is bogus.

MIT does no legacy admits, because the core curriculum required of all
students is so much harder, e.g. lots of calculus and physics, vs. Harvard in
the '80s requiring you to prove you can do algebra. So MIT doesn't admit
anyone they don't think can "do the work". although if you make that cut I'm
sure it doesn't hurt to be the child of an alum, but it didn't come up all
that often in the '80s at least.

MIT specifically looks for evidence that applicants can do projects. Beyond
that, as far as I can remember they're pretty generic in trying to construct a
class (trying since yield, acceptances of admission offers, is very hard to
predict), favoring the things every high end college looks for such as
geographic diversity (both of those helped me a lot).

So the very first thing strongly aligns with the school's goal of overall
being an "egalitarian meritocracy"; what you do and can do is where it's at.
MIT students do not as a rule aspire to be lower tier corporate yes-men.

------
amaks
>> While Indian newspapers were over the moon about Nadella’s elevation, with
some justification, there is another side to the story we need to consider:
why is it that India’s tech and other geniuses flower only in the US or
Silicon Valley?

The assignment of Nadella to CEO role appears to be a very smart move from
Microsoft board for many reasons:

1) He's not involved into scandalous business decisions as Elop 2) He's
internal candidate and been in Microsoft for 22 years 3) He's Ballmer's man,
and 4) Ballmer and Gates are still on Microsoft board, so no uncomfortable
decisions and surprises for MS board from the new CEO. 5) He's Indian, which
brings even more diversity to Microsoft LT.

Given all of the above, I doubt any drastic and revolutionary changes will
happen at MS.

~~~
shortsightedsid
I seriously doubt #5 has anything to do with it. Considering that he has been
in the U.S his entire Adult life (i.e old enough to make his own choices), one
can characterize him as American rather than Indian.

------
argumentum
The biggest mistake here is _assuming_ these people wouldn't succeed in India
or anywhere else. The IIT & IIM people move here to the US because they are an
approximation of "the best" in India. Others come as well, the _best_ doctors
have nothing to do with IIT and IIM obviously.

The best people are going to succeed _nearly_ anywhere. Obviously Nazi Germany
is an exception w/regards to the Jews & others they targeted. But, in my
opinion, this actually strengthens the argument .. you literally have to kill
the best people if you want them to fail.

Of course, the best people also realize they are likely to succeed _more_ in
the best places. The USA has been the prime beneficiary throughout history ..

~~~
ben336
> Obviously Nazi Germany is an exception

Thats the only exception you can think of?

> The USA has been the prime beneficiary throughout history

For values of history starting later than the late 1700s :)

------
hammad999
I'm an Indian, recently graduated from Bangalore and I cannot agree more with
this post. I am fortunate enough to realize what to do in life and not follow
the herd as almost every engineer does in India.

From among 60 electronics & communication engineers who graduated with me 40
are working for Infosys and wipro in IT departments! Why study Electronics if
you want to end up coding? It's not like one thinks what she wants it's more
like 'I just want to end up employed'. There is no question of passion.
Students are forced to take up engineering or medicine. Parents don't give a
fuck about the child's talents and all they care is his grades. It's sad and
this should change.

------
denzil_correa
The issue is claiming credit for being "Indian" when it has been the US system
that should be credited for the same. Sure, you can feel proud that an
ordinary run of the mill guy from your country has reached this position but
that's that.

------
jrmenon
Interesting debate.....when I see the comments here, I am reminded of this
most-probably a misunderstood book by Francis Fukuyama:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_History_and_the_Last...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_History_and_the_Last_Man)

It is a must-read esp. if you are inclined towards cultural determinism. IMO,
he seems to persuasively argue against all that, and provide good counter-
points on how people can change over time.

------
mathattack
I view this differently. He found a non-traditional way. He didn't go to IIT.
He didn't go to the top engineering school in the US. He got his MBA part
time. But he found a way.

I am very bullish on Nadella. He's not a lock to succeed, but he has a
fighting chance, which is a lot more than I can say for most of the other
candidates mentioned. (The CEO from Ford could probably run GE or 3M too, but
the only thing he could do at Microsoft is dismantle it.)

------
mastersk3
Time and time again I wonder if i should laugh at the absurdity of such
articles this or worry about the excessive, obsessive usage of the word
Indian.

~~~
sremani
Indian - the closest thing to that word is European. We do not speak the same
language, eat the same food, our culture is as diverse as that of Europe - but
the fake homogeneity the word Indian brings bother me a lot.

------
balladeer
> The short point: our system is designed to keep people out, not get them in.
> The true value of an IIT or IIM is not the intellectual capital they
> produce, but their filtering expertise

>

This is almost holistically true in case of those institutes mentioned or the
elk. Even their testing methods lack any kind of innovative or creative
examination. It's based purely on rote.

------
karunr
I am a 1987 Manipal Institute of technology graduate. MIT Manipal may not be
mentioned in the same breath as the IIT's but is (or used to be) in the top
100 engineering colleges in India. It is private and is much more expensive
though I believe it was much more affordable to middle class families in the
1970s and 80s than it is today.

------
wil421
Fix government corruption and the countries infrastructure and maybe people
will start migrating to India instead of away.

------
mhb
Private Schooling In India: Results from a Randomized Trial:

[http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2014/02/pri...](http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2014/02/private-
schooling-in-india-results-from-a-randomized-trial.html)

------
donniezazen
It reminds me of the article published a few days ago on why the author
doesn't trade in stocks. The reason was following.

    
    
        "It's going to go up!"
    

I say same is true for India. India hasn't reached it's high yet.

------
smoyer
Harsh ... I know that the bureaucracy you describe is well-entrenched (and I
guess has to be dealt with by the "business guy" in a start-up), but what how
can an Indian software start-up ignore that heritage to get a leg up?

------
berto99
Respect Indians, however clean up the stupid cast system.

------
TheMagicHorsey
Patriotism and Nationalism, ever popular amongst morons and the cynical
sociopaths that would manipulate them.

------
staticfish
Is it me, or does this situation reek of "damned if you do, and damned if you
don't"?

------
crusso
_While Indian newspapers were over the moon about Nadella’s elevation_

Racism/nationalism fail #1.

------
CmonDev
There is an implicit assumption that he was chosen because he is brilliant.
Shouldn't we wait for a couple of months at least?

~~~
kamakazizuru
usually CXO level people ARE chosen because they have displayed a modicum of
brilliance at something... It isn't exactly a lottery system. Plus - you can
already look at what he's done with the Azure platform.

~~~
CmonDev
That makes another assumption that everything is being done in company's best
interests, not individual people's interests. A lot of brilliant people has
been let go because they had a conflicting vision. Is being more conservative
a sign of brilliance? Also Azure is run by Scott Guthrie, but it could also be
attributed to Steve Ballmer since he was the CEO when it started.

~~~
kamakazizuru
yes thats how businesses work - things are meant to be done in a company's
best interests - that is also why companies have a board of directors.
Furthermore - I cant see how this was in some particular individuals interest.
Nor has anything Nadella said or done yet given me the impression that this
has anything to do with conservatism. IF you are commenting based on some
knowledge that isnt public - thats a different thing. Nadella headed the Cloud
and Enterprise division of which Azure is one piece. Azure may have been
started when Ballmer was CEO - but he was not running it - a CEO makes larger
scale executive decisions.. Nadella was in charge of making it get to where it
got in terms of revenues and profitability.

------
random42
What a content-less piece of link-bait fluff!

To me, the article boils down to..

1\. Find a large system (India)

2\. Find "issues" within the system (Brain drain in a densely populated
country with limited resources, caste system, not being able to compete with
first world countries in cutting edge research/capitalistic economy, people's
deeply routed perspective etc.), all of which are non-trivial to fix.

Such non-trivial will exist in any "real" (not theoretical) large system.
Wishing them away magically is kidding oneself.

3\. Rant about them.

4\. Do not provide either insights on why the issues exists OR the way forward
to tackle them.

Pretty mediocre article, IMHO, which does what arm-chair critiques do best —
criticism.

