
How to Get a Job as a Developer in Less Than Six Months - reubenpressman
http://www.learnwithjeff.com/2012/08/21/how-to-get-a-job-as-a-developer-in-less-than-six-months/
======
technotony
It's really frustrating reading all the negative comments here. What happened
to positive support for people in our community? This guy had a passion,
worked his butt off and got a good result... I'm sure he'll go on to many more
good things in the future. We should applaud and celebrate this, not knock
down how he's not a senior developer yet. Congratulations Jeff!!

~~~
borplk
It is great to see these posts and I absolutely applaud him for what he has
achieved.

Programming, like any other profession takes time to master, how would you
react to "How to become a brain surgeon in less than 6 months"?

If you were to have a brain surgery would you choose the guy who was
unemployed 6 months ago, or the other one who has been performing these
surgeries for the last 20 years, every day?

My point, comparing the two, is to highlight that both of these professions
affect us, one a bit more dramatically than the other.

If every medical student got to be a brain surgeon in less than 6 months we
would have many more tragic accidents costing lives or making someone
permanently disabled but there are many barriers in front of them that
prevents this kind of thing and gives the patient some confidence.

I argue that there should be something similar in place in the field of
development/programming.

In the same way that I would prefer the more experienced surgeon, I'd prefer
the websites I use to be programmed by more experienced programmers, how about
the cars we use? the airplanes?

~~~
mmcnickle
The comparison you draw is intellectually dishonest.

Many of the articles submitted to HN that frame programming as a craft get a
lot of support. And just as traditional crafts are taught through
apprenticeships, I believe that the same holds true for programming. Software
shops can easily find a place for enthusiastic candidates with aptitude and
commitment (as demonstrated by the OP). There are plenty of tasks that the new
apprentice could help with until fully trained. This is how bricklayers (a
fairer comparison than brain surgeon, you'll agree) are trained, and you don't
see many houses falling down.

------
jeffreybaird
So, there have been a lot of negative comments and I understand where they are
coming from. I will try to address them as best I can.

"Seeing a self-taught guy with 6 months coding experience writing software at
a medical lab testing facility makes me a bit nervous."

I am working mostly on internal systems and when I venture outside of that I
have my own branch write thorough tests and have multiple people check my
code.

"I shudder to think of the quality of his code and the projects he or people
like him are let loose on."

My code is pretty shitty. But, I know how bad it is, I know my limitations. I
work long days and more after work to improve. I am not pretending, I am
learning.

"Very fancy, but I am a software engineer, or programmer, as you prefer it to
be called. Engineer means that I studied 5 years at university (Bs + Ms), and
I know what I have learnt there, and I wouldn’t want to work with someone that
doesn’t know about algorithms, algebra (it helps you understand a lot of
things and opens your minid), compilers, statistics, concurrent programming,
software architecture (1 full year course), UI designing, networks, databases,
etc, etc."

I disagree that amount of time in a University is what allows one to become a
programmer, it is the skills and knowledge acquired at the school. I didn't
have that option, I needed a job in under six months or I was going to have to
get a job doing something I didn't love. I worked hard and got the job. Am I a
master? Nope. But, I have put myself in a position to become one with
continued hard work.

I think that is all of them. Many people glossed over this line, "When I
started this search I thought I would be scrubbing toilets in exchange for
nightly code reviews."

The fact that I am not doing that is a mixture of my willingness to clean
toilets to learn the craft I love and a market desperation for developers.

~~~
LnxPrgr3
I too am largely self-taught, though I took a much more convoluted path to get
where I am today. I lucked out several years ago and found an employer willing
to take a chance on me in spite of zero real-world experience and incomplete
schooling. It seems to have worked out pretty well so far!

You know you're still green, and I respect that. Everyone has to be at some
point. I don't care if they went to school—I've seen people come out of
respectable CS programs not knowing a damn thing about actually writing
software.

I've also seen people with plenty of experience—people who should really know
better by now—still code trivially avoidable vulnerabilities and make other
silly mistakes. School and experience are both lost on someone not really
willing to take learning seriously, who already believes he's an expert.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Really, we're all self-taught. The practice of development is so far removed
from college courses as to make us all essentially even at first hire.

------
meritt
While I absolutely applaud the effort and tenacity of this individual, at the
same time, I feel a substantial amount of trepidation regarding the current
state of the tech / start-up industry.

Virtually every hot new startup I see on blogs, it just takes a few minutes of
basic penetration testing to find gaping security holes. Everything from
simple XSS or CSRF to blatant leaking of sensitive user data. Obviously he was
hired at a "junior" level but I've interviewed plenty of "senior" candidates
who, 5 years ago, would have been "junior" with their skillset and this guy
would probably be a coffee-fetching intern. We keep lowering the bar (due to
the crazy imbalance of talent vs. jobs right now) in hiring practices and the
long-term impact of this practice has me worried.

On the flip-side, seeing all of these amazing ideas being brought to life and
fostering such a strong sense of innovation is amazing to see.

~~~
jeffreybaird
When I was hired it was with the _very_ clear understanding that I was to be
taught a lot and I was being hired for my desire to learn. Sometimes if you
can't find a qualified candidate you have to train them.

~~~
wyclif
Yes, and that "have to train them" is the truth that's missing from a lot of
these conversations: all these startups want "rock star" devs but they don't
want to invest anything in training. But no matter what the skill level of
your devs, companies should be investing in lots of training anyway to stay
competitive.

~~~
TDL
This is a more pervasive problem than just the tech industry. Many industries
in the U.S. have limited to no training and no mentor programs. Training is
perceived as an easy cost to eliminate.

------
RutZap
This is a nice story but there are some hidden issues around here. The ones
that want to get into programming should be aware of these:

It's not an easy trip.. it's not just six months... it's a lifetime. Yes you
might get a job in 6 months but then you will have to work even harder to keep
that job and to be in the game. You will never stop learning... you will have
to constantly adapt yourself to the new technologies otherwise you will end up
being the guy hated by everyone for your crappy code that's a pain to be
maintained.

Yes you might learn Ruby or any other programming language and you can solve
problems and build stuff... so basically you can do your job.... but there's
more to programming. You should not just read a ruby book and learn the syntax
and hey presto you are a developer. You should put some time in learning how
software works, learning some algorithms and so on. It's not about one
programming language, it's about programming in general. Programming languages
are just tools we use to achieve a goal. For example, you can't be a car
mechanic by learning how to use a wrench.. you need to know how to use more
tools and, the most important thing, learn how to fix an issue using the most
appropriate tool.

~~~
Swizec
To be honest, I think this is true for _every_ profession, not just
programming.

If you want to stay on top, you have to continually improve your game.

Or you can be that guy in the corner who got left behind when the factory
tanked and he suddenly found himself unemployable.

~~~
RutZap
Yes this is true for every profession... but in programming it seems to be a
more crucial thing as the programming world is changing and evolving faster
than any other industry.. just think about what programmers used to do 10
years ago .. and what we do now... think how computers change in 10 years...
(my mobile phone is smarter/faster than my state of the art PC from 10 years
ago)

The progression rate is astonishing and we must not forget that we still have
to learn the basics in order to be good at what we do...

~~~
chucknelson
I agree - software/web development is relentless in its changing and evolving
technologies and tool sets. I don't think there are many other professions
where the tools available change so quickly and often.

~~~
kamjam
Totally, but that's kind of the reason the industry is exciting. I get bored
writing the same piece of code twice, I'm not sure I'd survive in any other
kind of job where I'm doing the same thing day in/day out. I LOVE the fact I
still get excited when I learn something new or find a new way of doing
something I've done several times before!

------
MengYuanLong
I'm unable to access the article but I'm very surprised by many of the
comments in this thread. A large number of articles are posted each month
belittling (at the very least questioning the value) of non-technical
founders. These and similar posts are then filled with sermons advocating
individuals learn to code.

Apparently, OP took these statements to heart, put in the effort/time, and
what does he get as a result? Derision. What is this community about if it
isn't about personal and financial growth coupled with creation?

Perhaps in his post, OP makes some grandiose claim about being a master
programmer, okay fine, cut him down. But I suspect it is far less egotistical
and merely his way of celebrating a small victory brought about by what is so
often advocated: That learning to code really is a way to improve your life.

------
InfinityX0
Great to see that. There's plenty of "you should learn how to code" posts,
Codecademy, Treehouse etc, but there are very few case studies of people who
seemingly A) used these tools and/or B) actually ended up being able to wing
it learning to code mid-to-late-stage in their career. Not sure if this post
really qualifies as either of those, as well. If there's more examples of this
that I'm missing, please let me know.

~~~
alanning
Not really a case study but my sister went from never having coded, middle-
school math teacher to junior consultant at ThoughtWorks in 5 months via
DevBootCamp. TW may be a bit unusual though in that they are willing to train
you for a year before actually making money on you.

~~~
ktsmith
Our industry needs a lot more of this. Many industries expect that new hires
are in apprenticeship mode and will be learning on the job. In our industry
people are expected to walk in and know exactly what and how to do things.

~~~
wonnage
I don't think that's true at all - every organization I've worked with has
planned for a 1-2 month ramp-up program. Generally you start off doing trivial
bugfixes until the codebase makes sense and move on from there. Hell, learning
on the job extends past this phase and is essentially neverending.

You just need to have enough background to make it through the ramp-up phase
and start teaching yourself. That holds true whether you went to college or
are self-taught.

~~~
ktsmith
1-2 months is still nothing compared to other skilled professions.

------
mattdeboard
I got some of these same bitter, angry, defensive responses when I posted my
"how I became a developer" post a while back. I dunno what it is about
programmers here but for some reason "programmer" is considered some sacred
title you have to earn. Whatever.

~~~
reinhardt
Right on! The nerve of some programmers to think their profession is in the
same league with the big boys that need college and university degrees! Who do
they think they are, some kind of scientists or engineers?

</sarcasm>

~~~
kamjam
I know plenty of programmers without degrees, I was extremely surprised some
of them didn't because they were so bloody good! The thing is with having an
IT degree, this industry moves so quick how much of what you learnt is still
relevant (aside from the OO and SQL)... You have to be CONSTANTLY re-learning
new tech otherwise you're not going to be a very good/relevant programmer for
long!

~~~
gizzlon
Obviously you can't stop learning, but the thing is that by obtaining an IT
degree you'll often learn fundamental things you wouldn't learn otherwise.

~~~
mattdeboard
You're projecting. I have no degree. I've taken the time to teach myself the
fundamentals. Dueling anecdotes here obviously but we all know plenty of
people with CS degrees who are worthless when it comes to tackling a problem,
and plenty of people without who are credits to their profession.

Programmers program. If someone programs, they're a programmer. My daughter
uses scratch to write software. She's 8, the software is not sophisticated but
it's software. She's a programmer.

~~~
reinhardt
This sounds as serious as claiming your daughter is a civil engineer because
she builds LEGO buildings or she's a biologist because she knows to feed her
goldfish. At the end of the day we need some terminology that distinguishes
the guy that took a semester to learn MS Access from the one that took 4 years
to study CS in university.

It's an unfortunate common theme in HN but I can't think off the top of my
head other white collar professions with such contempt for degrees and formal
education. Are all the other fields doing it wrong or is programming so much
easier than everything else that justifies the constant pat on the back for
roll-you-own education?

~~~
kamjam
But I've met plenty of people who come out of uni with a CS degree and don't
know squat. I totally get the distinction, and there needs to be a distinction
between someone playing around, someone who is a junior and someone who is
truly brilliant. But it doesn't require a degree to reach that top level.

I only took _some_ CS modules at uni, I learnt everything I know either on the
job or off my own back, including OOP, JavaScript/OOJS, advanced HTML and CSS.
They didn't teach you the difference between browsers either (I started back
in IE4/Netscape days).

What this guys daughter decides that at 18 years old (and now having
programmed for 10 years) it's not worth going to uni because a) it'll cost too
much and b) might as well get a 4 year head start over everyone else. So by
that time she'll have 14 years experience. I think that would count for a hell
of a lot more than a formal education. There's nothing magical about
programming that a google search will not reveal.

------
cwp
Awesome write up; thanks for sharing. I'm a self-taught developer too,
although it took me more than 6 months to get my first job.

One technique I'd add to your list is, "Find online programming communities
and take part in them." I learned an incredible amount from development-
oriented mailing lists over the years, and I still do.

------
TheCowboy
I should probably do a write-up about how a year later I still do not have a
job doing development. Jeff touches on a few things I am pretty sure I would
do differently.

I think the most important thing is working on visible projects and seeing
them through to completion, as opposed to acquiring more depth through study.

Additionally, I would have went with Ruby instead of Python. Python jobs and
internships seem to fall more within an area where people demand a CS degree
background, at least in this region. With RoR the demand tilts heavily toward
webdev, which doesn't require 4 years of CS to be productive.

I definitely still think it's possible for motivated and tech-savvy people to
do what Jeff has done.

~~~
hackerbob
I'm debating whether to learn Python or Ruby. And the initial post as well as
this one has me leaning towards Ruby despite all the good things that have
been said about Python.

Are there non CS majors out there that picked up Python as a first language
and had doors opened for them?

~~~
Wilduck
I majored in Economics and taught myself Python starting my Sophomore year of
college. I am now gainfully employed in a job creating modeles (economic and
otherwise, essentially R&D) for the rail industry. My day to day activities
consists of writing Python code, and my ability to rapidly prototype ideas
with Python was one of the major reasons I was hired.

That being said, don't debate, just pick one and go with it. For every person
who tells you that Ruby is better at X, or Python is better at Y, you'll find
another person doing X in Python or Y in Ruby. The best advice I can give you
is to find a book/tutorial that works with your learning style and go for it.
Then grab a fun project as soon as possible and work on it.

~~~
TheCowboy
If one is starting to learn on their own in their 2nd or 3rd year in college,
I think Python is definitely a good place to start. You will have more doors
still open to you as a college student as far as internships go.

I also think people who are still in college might as well take the intro
classes so they can take the more advanced data structures and algorithms
classes, in addition to extra maths.

It's also good to be around other people who are studying CS while in
university. The networking benefits shouldn't be underestimated. And making
friends with people who are also passionate about the topic is great for many
other reasons.

------
the_cat_kittles
You really did a great job! I took longer than you, but I followed a similar
path. In hindsight, I can't imagine taking any other path, its been a blast!
If I could emphasize one of your points, it would be to MAKE stuff, don't pick
out problems out of thin air, MAKE stuff you want! I really happy for you, and
I'm really glad you wrote this. I haven't agreed with someone so much in a
while! Also, I would reinforce your point about git and github, that is as
absolute must in my experience. It is your resume and one of your main tools.

Edit: Dont forget about IRC!!!!

~~~
slurgfest
Genuine question: what does IRC do for getting a job other than taking up
time?

~~~
supo
I've been using IRC to talk to people who built some of the tools my company
uses in our technology stack. This has been an amazing opportunity and a
learning experience. You also learn a lot when you hang around and help more
novice users with their questions.

I'd say if you don't start talking OT in a IRC channel dedicated to a piece of
software/tech, it has a direct positive influence on your skills, which in
turn directly influences your job seeking chances. Also, you can meet
prospective employers that way.

------
jmtame
The problem with self-learning is one of discipline and motivation. I started
a learn-to-code startup and iterated 7 times (now profitable). It's nearly
impossible to keep someone engaged without having a human involved. When I
think back to how I learned to program, it wasn't alone. I surrounded myself
with CS students. And I had a lot of intrinsic motivation before I started.

Join a program like Dev Bootcamp. You'll save an enormous amount of time by
working alongside other people with similar goals, and the social pressure
will keep you on your toes.

~~~
aik
Have you been through Dev Bootcamp? Did you find it immensely useful? Did it
help with getting hired?

I ask because it has quite a large upfront cost... perfectly reasonable if it
really is that great.

~~~
lachyg
Disclaimer: I advise Dev Bootcamp.

Here are three student reflections on Dev Bootcamp:

\-
[http://douglascalhoun.tumblr.com/post/26059106238/beautiful-...](http://douglascalhoun.tumblr.com/post/26059106238/beautiful-
friend-the-end)

\- [http://newbietoruby.wordpress.com/2012/03/30/devbootcamp-
ref...](http://newbietoruby.wordpress.com/2012/03/30/devbootcamp-reflection/)

\- [http://mehulkar.tumblr.com/post/18897643140/devbootcamp-
test...](http://mehulkar.tumblr.com/post/18897643140/devbootcamp-testimonial)

And here is a Quora thread with a lot of relevant responses:
[http://www.quora.com/Ruby-on-Rails/Should-I-quit-my-job-
and-...](http://www.quora.com/Ruby-on-Rails/Should-I-quit-my-job-and-go-to-
Dev-Bootcamp).

Please feel free to ask any other questions!

~~~
wilfra
I have a question:

I've tried to learn Ruby and don't think it is for me. Too hard to deal with
setting up my environment and the language just does not come easily to me.

Can you recommend a program like yours that is of very high quality that
focuses on Python, JavaScript (possibly with HTML/CSS) or Objective-C?

~~~
jyu
What problems did you have with the Ruby environment? I went through this
several months ago, and maybe can help you get set up, if you're still
interested in Ruby.

~~~
wilfra
Couldn't get passed running rvm in my terminal on OS X =/

~~~
nanijoe
...then don't use rvm..there is a version of ruby that comes pre-installed on
your Mac, use it. Get one ruby book and read through it, don't worry if you
don't understand everything the first time, by the second time you read it,
things will make more sense. Also work through the examples in the book.

------
jlarocco
Seeing a self-taught guy with 6 months coding experience writing software at a
medical lab testing facility makes me a bit nervous. The need for proper
security in that area is (IMO) even more important than for credit card and
financial processing, and I just don't trust a guy with only 6 months
experience to do it correctly. Nothing against him, but I think it's too
complicated of a subject to learn in 6 months with no real world experience.

~~~
debacle
I almost completely disagree.

I've mentored guys who were greener than grass who grasped things like input
sanitation intuitively. I've also worked with guys with 5+ years experience
who thought this:

$foo = $_GET['foo']

Was input sanitation.

I would posit that, because of the vastly different quality needs,
understandings, and valuations inherent in the industries that our industry
touches (namely, all of them), it's unlikely that you're going to see any
strong correlation between age/experience and code quality.

------
duked
I don't mean to be a mood killer but that has to be taken with a grain of
salt. Ruby/Python/Perl are awesome language for beginner because it abstract
so much that they think they know how to code after a day, and when they have
to learn a new language like C they are completely lost and produce spaghetti
code. That might be ok for web development where you can hack here and there
(with JS/CSS/HTML) but I really challenge someone that follows that guide to
be a embedded device developer or a software engineer using C or even C# or
Java.

Anyway good read but again it should be really emphasize that this is an ok
road for a web developer.

~~~
psylence519
Why must all software developers be able to operate in all domains? What other
industry has a requirement such as this?

There's more than enough work out there, why must a web dev know or care how
to twiddle bits, or vice versa?

~~~
RutZap
It's not about one language and one issue... it's about being able to solve
problems regardless of tools given (i.e. programming language)

We don't code, we don't write code... we solve problems with code... there's
why.

And if you're not eager to learn all of these... you should think about a
change in careers

~~~
psylence519
Problem 1: I can't get this damn div to float to the right of my content.

Problem 2: My network card firmware stops acknowledging commands from the
driver after 3 days of high utiliization.

If you think you would assign the same person to "solve these problems with
code", you're being silly. People specialize and gain expertise in their
areas. Use the right tool for the job.

------
zupatol
I'm an unemployed programmer with 10 years of experience and I've been looking
for a (part-time) job for less than six months. I keep telling myself it would
be great if instead of looking for a job I could spend all that time just
coding. I have plenty of ideas. I've avoided that because it feels like
running away from my responsibilities, but this post makes me think again.

On the other hand the situation seems to be more difficult where I live
(Geneva, Switzerland). I've always been so enthusiastic about programming that
I want to encourage everyone to learn it, but today it sounds like bad career
advice around here.

~~~
philhippus
You can always sign up to odesk and/or vworker and pick up some paid coding
tasks there. You might even end up working full time (I have).

~~~
zupatol
I've been thinking about odesk, but didn't know vworker. Good to know it can
work, thanks.

------
joshlegs
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I have been learning code about a year and
now I have a part time job doing it.

The key thing is to _demonstrate aptitude._ Period. You obviously have done
this. Also, eagerness to learn is a huge huge selling point -- because
apparently you do that throughout your programming career. But the biggest
thing is to demonstrate an ability to code. You might not know everything a
university graduate does, but then again, I hear a lot of the people coming
out of university aren't very good programmers right now. =\ Not really sure.

University teaches you a lot of foundational stuff, but if you have someone
willing to work with you a little, you'll learn the same stuff (and likely
already have a little of it under your belt).

Anyway, kudos to you for sticking it out and being aggressive. Great example.

------
troels

        Work your ass off (...) So, in order to make the kind of
        strides I made, expect to spend at least 10 hours a day,
        six days a week dedicated to programming activities.
    

Important point is that you have to love those 10 hours. I'm pretty sure that
if you do it just with the end goal in mind, it won't work. You mention this,
but I think it could be emphasised.

~~~
bored
Agree. I've been there. Those need to be 10 hours you planned on being only 6.

------
kmfrk
Can anyone outside the U.S. - preferably in Europe - share similar stories, if
any?

I find that the U.S. has so many cool ways to work your way into a programming
gig, it makes anyone outside red with envy, but I struggle to find something
similar in Europe - especially in smaller countries.

What would your advice be for us who can't get a U.S. visa?

EDIT: I'm thinking mainly of Python/Django jobs and communities here.

~~~
dagw
The big advantage with the US in this case is that it is often cheap and easy
to fire someone. This makes companies much more likely to take a chance on
someone, since they know they can get quickly rid of them if it doesn't work
out.

~~~
nandemo
That's true but it's not the only reason. Note that there's still a social
cost to firing people.

I believe another major reason is that software companies in the US are in
average more profitable and more productive than in other countries.

------
orangethirty
In six months you did more than other hackers I know do in a year. In code,
time is relative to effort/motivation. You have both, work will gravitate to
you. Now, wait until you start contracting, and find your inbox full of work
after posting a for hire ad in HN. Crazy.

To give you some perspective of the relativity of effort/motivation, I know
people who have been "learning" for years who just don't sit down and push
through. Sure, like others say, your code will have security holes the size of
the titanic, but you are still learning. And learning is about finding out
what doesnt work. Good luck, and keep hacking.

------
usea
Jeff, not to criticize but your site is near-unreadable to me (Windows 7, both
in Chrome and Opera). Here is an image: <http://i.imgur.com/4wXrQ.png>

The text is too light at #666 on a white background, which is pretty light on
windows (although chrome renders it a bit thicker, it's still pretty light).
Also it would look much better if I didn't have Adobe Caslon Pro, as Cambria
is pretty normal.

I loved the content.

------
xiaoma
It's really too bad that there isn't more newbie-friendly friendly stuff going
on in the SF ruby meet-ups. One of the first things I did upon moving here a
few months ago was to join the group and look for anything aimed at learners.
Unfortunately in 3 months and dozens of emails from the meetup group, I
haven't seen a single event where men welcome (without a woman bringing them).

In this city, at least, it's probably a better idea to spend more time on your
own learning. Some of the resources on the OP's list are great. Learn to
Program was something I went through before moving out at it was a good intro.
Also, Code School is good if you can spare the cash. Coursera has been
fantastic-- it's completely free and has full videos, graded tests and forums.

Once you do have somewhat more of a foundation, then the normal meetups start
getting more useful-- hack nights, pair programming nights, lightning talks,
etc. One thing I have to say though, is that I met some _extremely_ friendly
and welcoming people early on when I went to meetups and had no idea what the
heck everyone else was talking about.

~~~
gkop
The SF Ruby list reaches several thousand people. I organize free weekly Ruby
classes but don't blast SF Ruby for fear of being quickly overwhelmed. I
emailed you with details.

------
xelfer
Site (is/was) dead, google cache version: <http://tinyurl.com/cqojywn>

------
zampano
This is great motivation. I've been doing much the same as you, just over a
longer period of time, but I've been a little too intimidated to put myself
out there so to speak. It is great to know others are getting results in
return for their determination.

------
commanderkeen08
Just a heads up, that fixed position element makes for a verrry annoying
mobile experience, especially when someone taps to zoom in. This is probably
the most common source of my frustration with the mobile web--those annoying
social share sidebars that are position-fixed are the primary perpetrators.

I noticed you're using onswipe though which helps, but if someone is using
some third party Hacker News reader, onswipe won't load.

Having derailed this thread enough, I love everything about this. Ill never
get enough of hearing people's success stories.

------
mvillena3
Nice read man. I just started learning programming as well in early January of
this year.

6 months ago, I never thought I would see myself working in a top HCII program
as a research programmer. I'm sometimes in total disbelief of where I'm
working at and also of the fact that I'm actually helping my professor.

"When I started this search I thought I would be scrubbing toilets in exchange
for nightly code reviews." That was definitely my train of thought on my value
as well, but I guess I underestimated myself as well.

------
samspot
Self-taught programmers get a bad rap because we've all seen the guy who
didn't know about arrays and defined 300 variables (I'm not kidding by the
way, and this was in perl. Full of wonderful names like $aa1, $aa2, etc.).

However you can get around this by having the OP's attitude about being a
life-long learner. It's important to get a lot of exposure to different people
and styles to offset some of the lack of background you will start out with.

~~~
slurgfest
Self-taught programmers get a bad rap for multiple reasons; because people
with degrees want to protect their market value and ego, because programmers
have a tendency to act very competitively and arrogantly toward other
programmers, and because the industry's business culture is so absolutely
intolerant of perceived weakness and negativity. There are hardly any
companies which did not decide that they require 'A players' which means not
having a single apparent dent or scratch anywhere in your record, regardless
of what ability you have manifested.

Basically, this is a hostile industry and being self-taught is blood in the
water, a lot like being female (this needn't be explicit sexism, just a
prevailing macho culture where if you seem weak in any way you don't belong).

Nothing I have said affects the ability of a life-long learner to have fun and
do good work in any way. Getting respect and getting paid are another issue.

~~~
sp4rki
I agree completely. But I think that both subsets, the degree laden and the
"no degrees allowed" crowd both apply the same labeling towards one another.
Get's to a point where no one who's hiring for a worthwhile company cares
about computer science degrees and cares more about exposure, references, and
past experience. I think the industry is becoming more hostile towards both,
no degree and degree types all the same. It's hostile towards anyone that
hasn't proven they're worth their weight in gold either because of their
github account or their past work experience. And that my friend a good thing.

~~~
slurgfest
I hold that the hostility is not really contingent on how good you are, but
rather on perceived weakness. Most programmers intentionally try to make
others feel and look incompetent, while trying themselves to come off like
badasses. Partly a matter of being socially inept, partly of a macho culture
in the field. And it's only aggravated when you have those programmers
interviewing candidates... This is independent of ability - there are plenty
of morons calling themselves A-players. You have to play that game or you will
be seen as weak and torn apart.

That is NOT a good thing. For example, it is actively driving women _who are
interested in computers and good at programming_ away from the industry. Who
wants to deal with the boys' club?

------
jeffreybaird
And since my blog has never had more than 5 people on it at a time... it
crashed.

~~~
chime
Funny seeing Aubrey & Gavin mentioned on an HN post. Both are great guys and
also attend the iOS meetups here in Tampa. You're welcome to join too. We're
meeting Aug 30th next: <http://www.meetup.com/Suncoast-iOS/events/77862782/>

Gavin actually talked about you in one of the past meetups, saying how he
knows one smart-cookie from his Ruby group who taught himself coding over a
few months and got a job through sheer persistence. He mentioned being
impressed by the progress in your code at day 1 vs day 30 vs day 90. Great to
see you're sharing your lessons here.

------
fscof
Really awesome to see a self-taught success story like this. Love the
dedication Jeff!

A side point of advice for anyone wanting to learn programming and still in
college: DEFINITELY take an introductory programming class. There's endless
amounts you can learn online, but learning the fundamentals through languages
like C and Scheme gives you great perspective when you do pick up web code.

------
robomartin
While I value a college education I have to say that a college degree is not a
guarantee of performance at all. A programmer, in my opinion, must have some
College exposure. The OP does, as he says he graduated with a business degree.
Aside from that, programming is a multi-faceted and ever-evolving discipline.
We are always learning new things. A proven ability to approach something new
and learn it is at the top of my list. He certainly proved that part.

I come to this from the perspective that virtually nothing I do today existed
when I was in college. This goes for programming languages and even hardware
design areas such as FPGA's. I, as an engineer, have to learn constantly. That
aspect of my profession never stopped and, in fact, intensified after leaving
college as there's so much to learn.

How is a college grad going to react to a paradigm shift such as what happened
as the internet started to take roots? It was the wild west for several years
as new ideas popped-up and you had to either play or get off the train. I'll
take someone really smart who has the tenacity, drive and interest to learn
new things quickly over a degreed engineer who is slow to react.

I have known many engineers who have remained stagnant over the years because
they simply didn't want to bother to learn new things or were far too
comfortable doing what they were doing. Some of these guys are unemployed
today. Their skill set simply doesn't match todays reality and a degree means
exactly nothing.

Now, to be sure, the combination of good, solid schooling and drive, tenacity
and a rabid interest to constantly learn can be a very powerful thing. In my
experience that person is more the exception than the rule. A lot of college
grads just want to find a train to ride as long as they can with the skill set
they acquired. The self-driven individual who wants to own a topic today and
then another topic tomorrow is very rare.

Oh, yes, and a lot of college grads write code that is as shitty as anyone
else's. There is no monopoly on the ability to write horrible code due to the
lack of experience.

------
evoxed
My first thought reading through was "heh, but now that I'm in NYC... I wonder
what _my_ chances are..." and then bam... there ya go! I'm glad to see stuff
like this, and totally agree with the points– especially the whole git-like-a-
boss bit.

------
supernayan1
Get hired sooner.

Audax Health is hiring in SF & DC.

Work in a fun and entrepreneurial environment where dress is casual and flip-
flops are encouraged. We provide the best tools such as brand new Apple
computers for every employee. Collaborate daily with top talent from companies
like Zynga, WebMD, Microsoft, Bloomberg, Booz Allen Hamilton, and XM. Your
contributions will directly impact the way millions of people interact with
healthcare.

What makes our office fun:

• Our super swanky waterfront office space in Washington D.C. • Top of the
line Apple products • Couches, ping pong, foosball, air hockey, arcade
basketball shooter, Xbox and TVs • A kitchen filled with scrumptious food,
snacks and beverages

Contact nayan.jain [at] audaxhealth.com

------
darklajid
I'm interested. My wife currently tries to do exactly this. The article might
be encouraging.

But I cannot read it due to a big yellow square overlapping the content, so..
useless link for me.

------
codegeek
"I like to learn; I like to teach; I kill two birds."

I like this tagline on the blog. Congratulations Jeff. Yes there are naysayers
and there is always an argument against something. But we applaud your
efforts. For people who are criticizing this, just look at it this way. This
guy pulled off something by working his ass of (in his own words). The creates
hope and inspiration for others like him and I am sure there are plenty even
among HN.

------
giZm0
One of the biggest problem in the industry is that there are to many bad
programmers! The sad thing is that these kind of people spam all the
employers, which make it a lot harder to filter out the good from the bad.

On the other hand their work tend to give all the rest of the us work when
they just hit the wall with something hard.

------
pearcerw
I was lucky enough to give a little talk at BarCampCharleston, in Charleston,
SC, last year.

I spoke on the same topic, but from a less generic standpoint (focus was on
Rails): <https://railsneedtoknow.heroku.com>

It's not perfect, but it helped a lot of people :)

------
jeffreybaird
The post has moved, so if you are looking it is here:

[http://jeffreybaird.github.com/blog/2012/08/21/how-to-
get-a-...](http://jeffreybaird.github.com/blog/2012/08/21/how-to-get-a-job-as-
a-developer-in-less-than-six-months/)

------
afterburner
"Push code to github EVERYDAY"

Good advice; the title lends itself to initially annoy skeptics (including
me), but it does look like you put a lot of effort into this. With that kind
of sustained and public effort it's definitely doable.

------
slurgfest
__If you are a new graduate.

If you are not a new graduate, and especially if you don't look so young, you
are definitely not going to have such an easy time, without good connections.

Take internships while you are in college, if you can

------
juddlyon
I applaud your ambition and intitiative. Many experienced programmers should
take note of how you socialized with other human beings (multiple times!) to
get the gig. Enthusiasm is underrated.

------
wr1472
tldr; there's no secret sauce; just work hard _.

_ Applies to other professions too.

edit: Congrats to the author, and refreshing to see someone document, the
effort involved as opposed to some "clever hack" of the system.

------
delinka
Mentally add: "...if you've never coded/been a developer/have no prior
experience."

I came here wondering in what job market a developer has to wait six months to
find a job. Oh, no experience. I see.

------
codyko
This was an incredible read. The guy deserves it. Congrats Jeff!

------
steilpass
"Work hard, write a lot of code, be transparent and be enthusiastic."

Sums it up for many industries. Just replace code with something valuable in
your profession.

------
IceyEC
This was a great read first thing in the morning! Thanks Jeff for your
enthusiasm!

------
vtemian
Awesome!!! Congratz and good luck!

------
wilfra
"In February 2012 I had never written a line of code. But, as of July 11, 2012
I am employed as a full-time Ruby Developer. You can do it too."

Best. Quote. Ever.

I am re-motivated to continue learning programming.

Nice work sir. Congrats.

~~~
reubenpressman
Awesome!!!

------
invdevm
Thanks Jeff for such an inspirational article.

------
eswangren
Yay, that's exactly what our industry needs; more cargo cult programmers
writing terrible software! Let's just be glad that this RoR guy isn't building
anything safety critical.

~~~
macoughl
How very positive and encouraging of you. Exactly what our industry needs,
elitist developers who don't want to grow the industry. You know, there is a
shortage of strong developers available and you were a beginner too at one
point.

------
johnnymonster
Might help credibility if his site wasnt down... <http://imgur.com/fhK0M>

~~~
drgath
I'm guessing my blog couldn't handle front-page HN traffic either. Yeah, it's
easy enough to fix and I can think of a dozen different ways to do it in under
an hour, but as the OP said in another comment, the site gets so little
traffic it was never a concern. Same with mine.

Ironic? Yes. Damages credibility? Nope.

~~~
johnnymonster
i'm one to talk, mine probably couldn't handle it either...

------
shousper
Wow.. so I really could have landed a programming job when I was 13? Damn.
Maybe I should have just believed in myself more like this guy.

I shudder to think of the quality of his code and the projects he or people
like him are let loose on.

Awesome that he's passionate and landed something, but underneath it just
makes me cringe because I see the shithouse quality of work that comes out of
people probably equally skilled, but not as passionate, everyday.

I should move to America..

~~~
elliottcarlson
"I see the shithouse quality of work that comes out of people probably equally
skilled, but not as passionate, everyday"

Passion makes one want to learn more, and constantly improve. People who love
what they do will listen to others advice and are able to be molded in to a
great developer. Without that passion, you are just doing your job - and when
it is "just" a job, then you aren't giving it your 100%.

Maybe blame the "shithouse" quality of work on the person, and not their
background. Additionally - take the time to correct those people and guide
them. If you are that experienced, become a mentor instead of a critic.

~~~
shousper
You're right, my response was probably a little angsty. There are some that
are willing to expand and learn more and they usually turn out to be awesome
developers with innovative ideas all the time. I was probably more referring
to the "job" types, who don't care for what you might have to teach them and
they just wind up getting in your way =\

Hopefully the future will hold more career type developers in my sector, but
we'll have to wait and see =)

