

It's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to get permission - bemmu
http://bemmu.posterous.com/its-easier-to-ask-for-forgiveness-than-it-is

======
patio11
There are quite a few things about the Japanese regulatory state which are
like this, so much so that half of the reason to have a
lawyer/accountant/行政書士(+) is so that you can have someone with a good guess as
to which rules are rules and which rules are more of suggestions (and,
relatedly, someone to argue the point with the relevant office when they
notice your paperwork is out of compliance with ministerial regulation 437 b)
xvii).

I've had to sit through some _very_ amusing telephone calls to Tokyo while the
local Social Security Office was apprised that, nope, Japan really _does_
occasionally sign treaties on the subject of taxes and "We can't help you with
that" is in fact _not_ acceptable procedure when asked for the relevant
documentation to secure one's status under the treaty. (I subsequently learned
that there are roughly 400 natural people who apply for that treaty's benefits
in the entire world and 399 of them use one of a handful of legal firms in
downtown Tokyo.)

(+) for our American friends: a licensed form-filler-inner who are combination
notaries, paralegals, and gophers who you can grant Power of Attorney to. For
example, if you have a fairly straightforward visa situation, you could give
one of them $2,000 and they'd prepare the relevant documents for you. (And,
should the Ministry of Justice not agree that your situation is
straightforward, everyone will politely pretend that "Really, are you _sure_
about that?" does not mean "Look, he was good for $2,000, how bad could he
possibly be? We've been buddies since high school, do me a favor here.")

------
recursive
This reminds me of my experience freelancing in 2009. In my effort to try to
figure out how to claim my income, aka "do the right thing", I submitted a
1099-MISC form, which apparently was a grave error. Since then, I've been
trying to convince the IRS that I submitted the form in error, all the while
with them sending me increasing bills for taxes and penalties on income I
didn't actually received. I just got another letter last week.

As it turns out, what I should have done was nothing. Instead of trying to
figure out the proper, "by the book" procedure, I would have been much better
off if I had either A) done nothing or B) just reported it as some kind of
supplemental income on my 1040 or whatever.

The lesson I learned is that strict rules and procedures in any system that
largely involves humans can usually be ignored, at least on the first pass. If
you've missed something that's actually important, they'll let you know.
Otherwise, everyone's better off leaving well enough alone.

~~~
rogerbinns
If you freelance you should never do your own taxes. There are so many
federal, state and city rules that could bite you that you aren't even aware
of. And if you make a mistake (which you will), you saw what happens.

If I ever get elected president, I'd insist the tax code get smaller by 10%
each year. If congress/senate can't figure that out then every item whose
number ends in a particular digit would be automatically deleted (eg all
ending in '3').

Over $12 billion is spent each year on tax preparation. That is a huge waste
and there are many many better places for that to be spent.

~~~
alanfalcon
Replacing income tax with a national sales tax and a prebate check seems like
it would make living in the USA 13% better just by making April a less
stressful month on the whole. (Yeah, I speak mostly in jest, but I'm referring
to the so-called "fair tax" which I like despite not really being qualified to
have an opinion about it).

~~~
derleth
> Replacing income tax with a national sales tax

Not in jest: This would be terrible for the poor and middle class and
wonderful for the rich, which is the only reason you've ever heard of this
cockamamie scheme.

The reason is that the poor and middle class need to spend a greater
proportion of their income just to survive, whereas the richest can more-or-
less sit on most of their money (in banks and other investments, to be sure)
and still live like rich people. Taxing spending is therefore what's known as
a 'regressive tax', in that it affects the poor more than the rich, as opposed
to a 'progressive tax', which affects the rich more than the poor.

~~~
simplefish
It's worth noting that the UK, France, Germany, Sweden, Australia, and almost
every other western democracy finance very large chunks of their governmental
expenditures via high consumption taxes. Most people agree that not only are
they _not_ hellholes with the poor and middle class starving on the streets,
but they're actually nicer places to be poor than the US. So while you're
right that this would be a shift to a less progressive tax system, it's also
clear that this isn't the whole story.

In fact, the progessivity of the tax system has very little impact on
inequality. You can have a highly progressive system (like the US, which by
some measures has the most progressive tax system of any first world country),
or a relatively regressive system like most of Europe, and it just doesn't
matter. In which case, anything to simplify the tax system in the US is
probably a good idea.

Further, the "rich" in your example are able to easily evade most taxes.
Consumption taxes - specifically if implemented as a VAT, as in Europe - are
effectively impossible to dodge, even if you're very rich. You may not pay a
lot as a percentage of your total income, but you will pay. The (nominally)
highly progressive system in the US is unable to guarantee that.

(And in any case, as recursive pointed out, the prebate check would make the
system arbitrarily progressive, undermining your entire complaint. Although
personally, I'd favour just implementing a straight up European-style
regressive VAT, and if you want to redistribute income, do it via welfare
payments; that's what they're there for. And unlike tinkering with the tax
code, they actually are _capable_ of effecting significant redistribution.
Your entire argument seems predicated on the idea that the US tax code has
something to offer that the typical European tax code does not. Will all due
respect, I question this. The US tax code is a disaster, and US prosperity has
been achieved in spite of it, not because of it.)

~~~
toyg
_Consumption taxes - specifically if implemented as a VAT, as in Europe - are
effectively impossible to dodge_

Very funny. In fact, VAT is actually the easiest tax-dodge of all: just buy
through a business and you can claim VAT relief, getting an effective 20%
discount on everything. Say you are a graphic designer with your own Ltd
company: you can now buy your Spider-Man DVDs, file them under "research
expenses", and get 20% back (or whatever VAT is in your country). There are
guidelines on what is acceptable, of course, but they are enforced only to a
degree. Where they are strictly enforced, it's _exactly_ because the system
itself is otherwise wide open for abuse by individuals.

As soon as your business is large enough and diversified enough, abuse cannot
realistically be detected -- your 3-people agency will indeed need DVDs for
research... and printers, iPhones, vacuum cleaners, dishwashers... most small-
firm owners and CEOs never pay VAT, as simple as that. VAT is a tax on fixed-
income employees, an incredibly regressive tool. Its popularity is yet another
cause of the widening disparity between have and have-nots throughout the
continent.

~~~
beagle3
In Israel, who runs a european-style welfare state, you are supposed to only
get the VAT relief on stuff your business sells forward (the idea being that
VAT is only ever paid once on every item).

People still abuse this, claiming e.g. that the Spiderman DVDs used for
"research" ended up inside the final product and thus qualifies for tax relief
-- but if they audit you, that might not fly, and a VAT audit is one of the
easiest way to get in real legal trouble.

~~~
toyg
Guidelines vary between countries, but when you move from classic
trading/manufacturing to services, they simply cannot be applied literally --
i'll need my computer to make software, but i won't sell it over, and i'll get
vat relief anyway; and obviously i'll need an ipad or three to test my
website, etc.

This is why vat auditing is so ruthless: because it's routinely abused by
everyone, so the enforcers have to be harsh to maintain a shred of
credibility.

I'm not saying VAT is bad per se (it's just another tax), only that is a
clever way to tax consumption by fixed-income employees in a regressive way,
which is really not what you want if you're trying to make the system fairer
for, er, those fixed-income employees.

------
nandemo
Bemmu, is your wife Japanese? I'm willing to bet that if you did an A/B test,
with A=Bemmu and B=Bemmu's wife, you'd get more _yes_ answers with B.

(I'm aware that this might sound cynical to some, but it's pretty much common
sense if you have lived in Japan for some time.)

~~~
bemmu
Yes, but I was trying not to jump to that conclusion as I have no particular
reason to think that. It probably has more to do with the office she happened
to visit, it was the same one that gave me a nonchalant "yeah, whatever"
-answer before.

~~~
nandemo
Ah, you hadn't said it was the same post office...

In any case, I'm not saying being Japanese is the only factor. But it's very
likely a factor.

------
hallman76
Tangent:

The phrase "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to get permission"
is attributed to Grace Hopper[1], who developed the first compiler(!) and is
credited with popularizing the term "debugging" for fixing computer glitches.

The phrase has always resonated with me and I was blown away to see that it
originated with a pioneer in computer science.

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper>

~~~
batista
_and I was blown away to see that it originated with a pioneer in computer
science_

And also, a woman. Like, the first programmer, IIRC (Ada Lovelace). It took a
woman to first get us programming, and another one to write the first
compiler.

Just a trivia to keep in mind.

~~~
kylebrown
IIRC, originally a "computer" was a term which referred to a (generally
female) person, whose job was to feed numbers into an adding machine /
calculator. So it makes sense that the first programmers would have been
women; it was (is) a secretarial position of repetitive, mundane tasks below
an idea-thinking boss-man.

That programmers are now ~90% male, is surely just further evidence that the
tables are turning, and women will be running the world soon. jk (kinda)

------
coryl
Given that the postal workers seem to not have a clue about the proper
protocol anyway, this is a gamble based on social engineering.

You're betting that the postal workers don't know or care enough to go against
the book, and you're probably making their job easier anyway.

~~~
bemmu
A pretty good gamble though, probably the worst that can happen is that I have
to do what I was already doing anyway. You're right this makes their job
easier, as they no longer have to deal with my constant requests to get more
and more of those forms.

~~~
ErrantX
According to sods law, some helpful post office worker will very soon knock on
your door holding a thousand or so of them :)

------
pavel_lishin
Why not print them using a font that looks like handwriting?

~~~
bemmu
I do print my signature on them, which is an actual scan of my signature.

~~~
derleth
> I do print my signature on them, which is an actual scan of my signature.

And this never seems to occur to people who think faxes are any more 'secure'
than unencrypted email.

This, plus any of the 'send a fax from my PC' services or software, just never
seem or occur to anyone who demands faxes for security reasons.

~~~
Nate75Sanders
Handwritten signatures are a truly ridiculous form of verification.

~~~
skore
Recently, I had to send in a number of forms via a PostIdent procedure in
Germany. You have to sign an additional form and be present with your papers
for verification in the Post Office.

There was a problem later on in the process - The signature I gave at the Post
Office (produced in a crowded situation, under stress) did not match the one
on the forms (6 pages, all individually signed in the comfort of my home). As
a result, I was asked to re-send the 6 pages and have them match with my
initial PostIdent signature. Not redo the process so all match - reproduce the
PostIdent signature six times.

As this was in dealing with an online service, I could see exactly what those
pages and their signatures looked like in my account and indeed, the PostIdent
signature looked a lot different. It looked: _impossible to reproduce_.

Cutting the story short: I found myself having to _fake my own signature_ 6
times. I tried for about half an hour to reproduce my meaningless squiggles. I
ended up taking a completely different route than using this service - not
solely based on this problem, but hugely influenced by it.

That is to say: Yes, signatures truly are a ridiculous form of verification.

------
alanfalcon
The more I hear about your adventures with Candy Japan, the more I love it,
even if the product is something that I would never be able to justify buying.
(Replace candy with Gashapon–capsule toys–and I'd have a hard time not pulling
the trigger).

~~~
bemmu
Random ones?

~~~
alanfalcon
Well, maybe I should be careful what I wish for, but most of the ones I see
are little robots or anime characters that tend to look cool and be well
designed. But maybe only the neat looking ones make it to the places where I
can find them in the states.

------
leeoniya
well, everything that could have been done to resolve the situation was tried
within reason. it would be an entirely different situation if the process was
easy but no attempts were made to use it.

------
dkersten
"It's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to get permission."

I used this technique to get three desks in two offices as an undergrad in uni
(undergrads typically did not get any desks allocated at all). We were also
given access to the postgrad labs and made use of the postgrad kitchen
facilities (though we were careful not to get in the way of any of the actual
postgrads and to leave it as we found it as we didn't want to be a burden to
them).

------
jakeonthemove
There are lots of these small regulations that are totally stupid and don't
help anyone but no one bothers to change or remove them because it
inconveniences only a small number of people.

That said, couldn't you get around it by printing them with a handwritten font
(or even your own handwriting, scanned)?

That's what I do with any PDF form that needs to be hand signed and faxed -
sign with a handwritten font, fax using an online service...

------
tstyle
I was so convinced by the title that this article would be about Path,
permissions, and iPhone contact list scraping

------
jsavimbi
> Phone calls ensued

Pretty much what happened to me every time I sked a question in Japan.
Extremely helpful people, even though some times the incompetence of the
helper was too much to bear.

------
ThaddeusQuay2
"It's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to get permission."

Possibly, but people who are constantly apologizing are usually annoying,
manipulative, cloying, or insincere.

~~~
civilian
Psh! You only ask for forgiveness if someone says that you did something
wrong. And, in the author's case, he hasn't had to ask for forgiveness yet.

------
kevinchen
Did anybody else think this article was about Facebook before clicking the
link?

