

Leaving a hot startup after 6 months - stupid idea? - jiminy_crickets

I graduated at the top of my class from a top CS school this May.  Right after graduating I started working at a really hot startup.<p>I hate work, even though things couldn't be going better for the company.  A big part of me wants to quit.  (I'd join another startup or a big tech company)<p>Is this a stupid thing to do?<p>Reasons I want to leave:
- I'm not gelling with the founder.  I hardly ever dislike people, but I just don't get along  with the founder.  (I work directly with the founder)<p>- I'm not sold on our product.  Everyone else on the team seems to see magic in what we're building, I don't.<p>- The standard workweek at the company is 90+ hours.  That's more than I'd prefer.<p>- The work isn't technically challenging.<p>Reasons I want to stay:
+ My co-workers are crazy awesome.  We get along great, and I have utmost respect for how smart everyone else is.<p>+ I don't want to be a quitter.  I feel like I signed up for something, and I don't like what I think leaving says about me.<p>+ The startup will probably do really well (mostly because everyone else in the market is so bad).<p>+ The startup is very well connected.  Staying part of the company's network will probably be beneficial to me.
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aeontech
The minuses you list far outweigh the pluses.

\- If the work is not challenging, it will not be very useful on your resume
anyway.

\- The network that is important is your personal connections to coworkers -
if you are not directly interacting with the people the startup is connected
with (I assume you mean, who are investing in it), you might as well not
exist, you are another faceless programmer that is growing their investment.

\- Having a standard workweek of 90+ hours is only worth it if it's your own
startup, or you are enjoying the work and are gaining other benefits from it
(ie, learning fascinating new skills, building strong relationships, or some
other benefit other than money). I would highly advise disregarding your stock
options altogether - if they ever amount to anything, it will be a nice
surprise, but counting as a direct benefit is not sensible when they will, as
with most startups, never amount to anything significant compared to the
amount of time and energy you invest. If you burn your energy on a product and
company you do not believe in, doing work that is not mentally rewarding, you
will eventually burn out.

\- if you are not sold on the product, and the product is not technically
challenging, neither will you produce your best work, nor will you learn much
from building it. You can either

A) create your own skunkworks in the company, and find ways to make product
more interesting to yourself by designing, prototyping, and proposing new
features that _are_ technically challenging and give product what it lacks.
This only makes sense if you believe that the company will appreciate your
efforts, and that the product can be salvaged.

B) Find something else you can learn while at the company - better project
management skills, pair programming so you can learn from other developers how
they think and use their tools, learning how to manage people, learning how to
talk to investors and network, etc...

C) If you cannot find anything else you can learn while you are at the
company, quit. Good developers are hard to find right now, you should have
little trouble finding other work.

~~~
aeontech
And finally, on being a quitter - you will not be seen as a quitter by people
who care about your well being if you communicate the situation clearly. The
people who may try to shame you as a quitter, will be people who will benefit
from you not quitting. People who actually care about you will understand that
you need to do what is best for your evolution as a programmer and human
being. You have to watch out for your own best benefit. The company,
especially if it is full of smart people as you say it is, will survive
without you just fine. Depending on the founders, the board of directors, and
the investors, it will also, without a qualm, throw you under the bus if that
is beneficial to them, especially if you already do not get along with the
founder. This is not to say that all companies/founders/directors are evil,
but you have to be aware of the risk/benefit and judge it rationally, rather
than sacrificing your own well-being, your irreplaceable time, and your energy
on a company that does not appreciate it, nor give you a fair exchange
mentally or financially.

------
beforebeta
I have often been in situations like this one. I have always found it easiest
to just give-up and leave - quit - pack your bags. Yet, after making such a
mistake once, I have realized that it is not the right approach. The ideal
approach is to give it _one_more_try_.

So my advice to you: If you want to leave the firm because you don't get along
with the founder -> try to talk it out with him. Often the best solution is to
have an honest discussion and see if you can resolve your differences. If
after you have your discussion with the founder you still are unable to "gel"
- leave, its not worth your while to waste your life in an environment that
you're not happy in.

~~~
chris_dcosta
Agree this is the best approach.

But a word of warning on another line... don't be tempted to discuss your
grievance with colleagues, no matter how much you like or trust them, talking
down something is like a virus: it might get infectious, and the worst is that
people start to see you as not really buying in to the whole project. Both are
not good outcomes.

Think about it another way too, does it matter if you don't get it? It's not
your idea anyway, but you can help make it great and gain experience from
that. It'll help you when it comes to making your own thing work - which I
feel is probably what you want to do.

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chunkyslink
You are talking to the wrong people. You need to be discussing exactly what
you've just said here with your boss / founder.

Explain the good parts and the bad parts. Ask for guidance and explain you are
new to all this.

~~~
amorphid
Telling your boss you don't like your job isn't a great plan. Your boss' job
is to produce results, not be your therapist. If you are prepared to leave
your job, then maybe being candid with the boss could be useful, but I
wouldn't recommend it.

~~~
chunkyslink
What you just said doesnt make sense.

Aim of boss = to get results.

To get results boss is therapist for a short time.

Boss gets results.

A good (smart) boss would appreciate you taking the time to talk to him/her.
Maybe you wouldnt say - 'I dont like my job' but you could phrase it better.
As I said - mention both the good and bad parts.

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lnanek
I had a really bad experience with a startup and attribute it to not getting
along with one of the founders and trying to stick it out despite that. When
it comes down to it, people just naturally treat their friends very well and
look out for them, but people they don't like tend to get taken advantage of
or simply forgotten unless they have leverage or clout to prevent it.

The success chance was similar: they had a top ranking spot in an app store,
which is tough to lose no matter what you or competitors do, and generates
enormous traffic. You can use the traffic to promote other apps your company
makes and give them a terrific advantage too. That said, they were moving away
from the employees' personal interests just to get more users in the future.
We weren't solving our own problem any more which makes things less fun. The
founders would often agree to compromises on features in public meetings and
then cancel them privately after.

If you and the founder aren't getting along, it may be better for you, the
founder, the company, and your relationship with it and its network to just
leave early while there are still some good feelings all around. Leaving early
you can leave as a good coworker who just moved on to another opportunity.
Leaving later you might be the stereotypical disgruntled coworker. This
reasoning inverts some of your pluses.

Looking back on it, the things I stuck through were ridiculous: they often
forgot to pay me or got the amount wrong (always too low, never too high of
course), didn't come through on agreed benefits like a paid gym membership (I
took over paying for months when they randomly stopped, then it took a dozen
emails and a meeting where they tried to get out of it when I asked them to
pay any amount at all), kept scheduling construction on the weekend without
putting it on the team calendar after agreeing not to, and one final nail in
the coffin re equity.

They asked me to take more equity instead of cash for pay, I agreed if they'd
do some paperwork things I needed, like changing my address to a house in a
nearby state I moved to with my wife - I needed that for our immigration case.
They were happy to pay me less cash and did so, but they never updated the
address (probably didn't want to pay the accountant for the change and
different state taxes) and claimed I was accusing them of negligence when I
brought it up instead of fixing it.

As a developer, is was easy to find work once I left where no one pulled any
bullshit and I could just concentrate on getting my job done. Should have just
done that when they first started playing fast and lose with the pay checks
instead of getting involved in some sort of adversarial relationship.

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chris_usable
The choice isn't simply 'stay or go'. Talk to the rest of the team. Tell them
what you're feeling (that you're not happy, _not_ that you're considering
leaving). There's a good chance that there's work to be done that you could
focus on that you will find challenging, or that there's something you can do
to mitigate the hours you're putting in, or simply that talking it through
might reignite the passion you (presumably) had at the beginning.

Plus, don't fall into the trap of thinking the grass will be greener somewhere
else. This is your first job since graduating. You don't have much experience
yet. Take it from me, almost every job is the same. It's actually easier to
tailor your existing job to be something you like than it is finding a job
that will suit you better. (Caveat: This is true of everything bar the number
of hours you're working.)

------
nurik
Don't Quit. 6 months is just too short of a time. No matter what you do
afterwards it will always leave a question mark why you left so early, in
particular when the start up has so much traction. That the founder sucks is
too bad. However, to get along with people on a professional basis is way
different than getting along with them on a private basis. Think of the army.
Imagine people would quit just because they dont get along with the General.
Persevere and try to stay at least a year...

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nandemo
I think "not gelling with the founder" isn't a good reason to leave. Working
with people that you don't particularly like is part of what we call
"professionalism". As long as your boss is respectful and doesn't constantly
underestimate (or overestimate) your skills, it's OK.

On the other hand, working 90+ hours in a company that's not yours is crazy.
15h/day, 6 days a week? Or 12/day, every day? It's simply not worth the
downside in health and missed opportunities.

~~~
hansy
I feel your "professionalism" may be more applicable to larger, corporate
environments.

With a small team size accompanying early startups, I personally feel having
the core people click is extremely important.

I of course don't know what number hire the poster was to the startup nor do I
know how long the startup has been around, so perhaps the startup is past the
"honeymoon" period.

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gaurav1979
If this is your first real job, then I very strongly recommend that you stay.
6 months is a very short period of time to take this call. Give it at least 6
more months. Righ out of college, sometimes 6 months can feel like a really
long time especially if you are doing 90 hours weeks. In another few months,
perhaps the workload would reduce, some of your options would vest and you
would feel that you have given it a fair chance before you finally take your
decision!

~~~
devs1010
It depends how long til your options would vest, if its more than another 6
months, I strongly recommend you consider looking for another position, even
with only 6 months experience you can find another job, especially after
having been working 90 hr weeks

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devs1010
Just leave, find another job, working 90 hours a week is ridiculous unless you
stand to make a large amount of money based on the performance of the company.

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jdavis83
There is nothing more important than liking what you do. I think it's time for
you to start looking for a new job

------
ricardobeat
No. Just be honest.

