
An investigation into the economics of airplane seat reclining - Hooke
http://evonomics.com/resolve-fights-reclining-airplane-seats-use-behavioral-economics/
======
pklausler
I'm happy to not recline my seat when I'm sitting in steerage, unless the
human sitting in front of me reclines.

So it's not about making a deal with whomever sits before you; instead, it's
about making a deal with everybody in your column and lower row number, at
least up to an exit row. All it takes is one recliner to ruin it for
everybody.

~~~
supergeek133
Exactly. Numerous times over the past two years as I've traveled more for work
I've had to out loud say the phrase: "We're all in this together".

~~~
hueving
Who did you say that to? If it was to the person in front of you, you're being
an asshole. Just recline your seat or deal with the reduced space in front of
you.

If you want more room between you and the seat in front of you, pay for it.
Don't try to guilt the person in front of you to make their own flight
uncomfortable for sleeping to please you. That's selfish.

~~~
supergeek133
Take it easy.

I've said that to numerous people. I never say that to people in front of me
who recline. I deal with it like everyone else does.

The most recent time was during one of the computer outages, someone tried to
cut in front of everyone to check a bag. I just calmly said that we're all in
this delay together, we all have places to be, and it's nobody's fault at this
counter. So just wait like the rest of us.

I actually don't get into conflicts with air travel, but for some reason it
triggers others instantly.

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braymundo
Flying without reclining my seat is pure torture to me. I find the default
vertical position of the seats deeply uncomfortable. What if all seats had a
slightly reclined angle already?

~~~
tutufan
Flying in a reclined seat is pure torture to me.

~~~
cbanek
What if we grouped the plane into two sections: those who want to recline, and
those who do not?

If you're a recliner behind a recliner, happy. If you're a non-recliner behind
a non-recliner, happy. Split on the exit row, or hopefully at least one row of
people who don't care.

~~~
extra88
Not everyone flies alone and not everyone who flies together has the same
preferences for reclining their seat.

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woliveirajr
If you suffer from lumbar (or any other region) pain in your column, reclining
or not is a huge difference. I never had problems about knees getting closer
or not, etc., but having suffered from lumbar pain for a part of my life, I
can assure you that reclining or not has a big impact.

No, it doesn't mean that pain -> need to recline. Sometimes it gets better
keeping it straight, sometimes you get relief when you recline.

The advantage was to have the option to choose it at every travel, or during
the travel.

As options get limited, so was my pleasure getting lower.

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
> I never had problems about knees getting closer or not

But other people do, that's the point.

I'm only 6'1 but with long legs, if someone reclines in front they're
literally on top of my knees the entire flight. When turbulence occurs they
bounce up and down on my knees.

I try to book exit rows and Economy+ when budget allows, but for all other
times I take painkillers and just have to let my knees get damaged by the 4'
woman in front of me who's comfort is more important than my pain.

~~~
mrep
So should the smallest/cheapest seat be designed for shaq to sit in it?

Why should smaller people be forced to pay for bigger seats that they do not
need?

~~~
Markoff
the seats are fine, reclining is not and should be removed completely

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joncp
Have I been on different airlines than these people who fight?

In my experience airline seat backs pivot at a point somewhere around knee
height, so reclining a seat doesn't affect legroom at all. When the person in
front of me reclines it tilts my laptop monitor a little but that's it.

~~~
electrichead
I guess so. Every flight I've been on has made it uncomfortable for me if the
person in front is reclining. The angle makes my laptop have to open less than
90 degrees (15"). The incline also has to begin below the knee (ie. at the
base of your seat) because the seat is horizontal and seats are at the same
level.

My knees usually touch the seat in front so I have to spread my legs awkwardly
when the recline happens.

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tgb
For anyone who dislikes recliners - in what manner does it inconvenience you?
For me, it's not useful space that is taken up, except perhaps transiently as
I squeeze past my neighbours to get to the aisle. My knees are below the point
that reclines. Are laptops the problem?

~~~
wmil
Can't use laptops, can't eat on the tray because there isn't enough space
left, and can't watch the monitor on the back of the seat because it's facing
down.

So it's pretty inconvenient.

~~~
sanswork
Pro tip almost all of those screens allow you to pull the bottom out to make
it flat again. I don't think I've ever been on a flight this wasn't true on
actually.

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Markoff
TLDR ask person in front of you not recline and compensate them with drink or
other small gift and most likely they will accept it even without the gift

~~~
notyourwork
What is this blasphemy of treating humans like humans. It is crazy how many
overly dramatic articles and situations could probably be resolved by simply
civil dialog and discussion.

~~~
Arizhel
Because about half the time the response is extremely uncivil, so people are
afraid to try the civil approach. So people do just as you say: treat humans
like humans. Since humans are largely evil, that results in the behavior we
see.

~~~
ghaff
It's not that humans are largely evil but about asking people to be less
comfortable based on your own preference. Don't recline. Move to a non-
preferred seat so I can sit next to my girlfriend. Etc. In some cases this may
be reasonable but they're the sort of negotiation I prefer not to get into on
a Plane where you're implicitly the bad guy if you say no.

~~~
Markoff
it's not about my preference if you hit me with your reclined seat

it's like saying I am making smoker less comfortable based on my own
preference that I wanna breathe clean air, he is disrupting clean enviroment,
you are disrupting good relations by reclining, I have no problem to not
recline for person behind me, because once you do it everyone behind you have
to do it to gain a little space the first person who started these selfishly
took

~~~
sanswork
It's not like that at all in this case the person in front of you has paid for
that space you are occupying. It was never your space to begin with.

~~~
Markoff
no, you buy seat with space for your legs, if someone is taking my space for
legs he is taking something I paid for

they paid for space in front of their seat up to back of the seat in front of
them

~~~
sanswork
They paid for the space taken up when the seat reclined if your legs don't fit
in that space they you need to buy another seat or pressure airlines to start
better serving people of your size. It's not the person in front of you who is
at fault it is everyone that has ever done a ticket search and sorted from
lowest price to highest.

~~~
Markoff
i am no special person, i am pretty skinny so they have low fuel expenses on
me compared to some short fat people and i have no problem to travel with
reasonable polite people who won't recline seat for someone much taller seeing
behind them

but ok, let's stop being polite and charge people per kg of weight if we do
this already with baggage, at least fat people will have motivation to stop
eating, not sure what unhealthy i did that i grew tall and should handle
ignorant people reclining seats

~~~
sanswork
There is nothing impolite about using a space you paid for. I don't see how
charging by weight would improve your situation any. You're still trying to
fly in a seat that doesn't fit your body.

~~~
Markoff
well hurting someone (by pushing your seat on their legs) unless it is
necessary (which it is not in case of reclining, you can just sit as fine
without reclining) is impolite by standards of most civilized countries

but maybe in your country causing unnecessary discomfort to other person is
being polite...

~~~
sanswork
Imposing on other people's space to save money is impolite to me.

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bspn
I have only had an issue with a reclining seat once before. It was a
transatlantic flight on a horribly old 767 and the gentlemen in front of me
reclined (at speed) and then turned around and ordered me to get my knees out
of his back as though I could miraculously make myself a few inches shorter.
My row mates and I had a good laugh about it and I resolved to only fly
premium economy for flights of any meaningful length in the future.

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e2e4
I think this problem has been at least partially solved with the slide forward
to recline seats; e.g.:

"One product from Zodiac is the 5751 slimline economy class seat. This
particular model of seat uses a unique recline mechanism where the seat bucket
moves forward while reclining."

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zodiac_Seats_U.S](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zodiac_Seats_U.S).

here is an example of the seat:
[http://downloads.cathaypacific.com/cx/new_seat/seatguide/Oly...](http://downloads.cathaypacific.com/cx/new_seat/seatguide/Olympus_y.pdf)

p.s. on international 8+ hours flights resting/sleeping without reclining is
challenging ...

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dandare
The whole situation is ridiculous - the airlines clearly know if they sold you
the right to recline or not, if they only stopped being so damn ambiguous
about the rules there would be no fights.

~~~
ghaff
What's ambiguous? Airlines let you recline except during takeoff and landing.
However, various people argue that just because you can doesn't mean you
should.

